# springtails



## SandDeku (May 22, 2011)

Anyone know how to attract wild springtails to my yard? I keep seeing people gettting "serious" infestations of them. But I'm the unlucky one who doesn't even get any! D: < I don't wanna buy something that I c an seriously just go out and find it


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## The Spider Faery (May 22, 2011)

If you have any houseplants, check the soil.  I've found them in my houseplant soil at times, especially soil that is kept consistently damp.


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## ZephAmp (May 22, 2011)

There are springtails in your yard already.


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## khil (May 22, 2011)

you have to check very carefully, check everywhere like on dirt or under logs and stuff. they are TINY TINY TINY! Caught a few myself and trying to start a colony lolz


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## SandDeku (May 22, 2011)

But how do I attract them on to a container to start a large colony myself? 

I currently have gotten some d.hydei and they're well a pain...  I read they don't breed readily... And my toadlets don't seem to be eating them. Though they may just be getting their tails completely absorbed and they're on paper towel substrate. Maybe ill put in a slice of apple in so they get the apple(fruitflies). and stick on there w hile the toadlets feast on them. 

But anywho that's why I want springtails. To feed to my toadlets.


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## Bugs In Cyberspace (May 23, 2011)

Despite being one of the most numerous arthropods on the planet, springtails are difficult to collect in sufficient numbers to start a colony. Also, many backyard species don't seem to fare as well in captivty as ones available in the amphibian feeder industry.

By laying flat debris over bare soil, you can generally find them using it as cover a few days later. Often, they will be upside-down on the underside of the board. They seem more common during the wetter seasons, and even now a few days of dryness will cause them to hide (here in the urban Pacific NW).


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## Pssh (May 23, 2011)

I find mine under rocks where it is moist. I have not been able to culture any species I have found around me except for the massive silver ones. I have to individually catch them (which is a pain in the butt!) to start colonies though.


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## Galapoheros (May 23, 2011)

Something you could try is to get a small cap of water, put it in your yard, put something like a couple of pellets of dry dog food next to the cap of water.  Springtails easily get caught in the meniscus on top of the water.


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## SandDeku (May 23, 2011)

Galapoheros said:


> Something you could try is to get a small cap of water, put it in your yard, put something like a couple of pellets of dry dog food next to the cap of water.  Springtails easily get caught in the meniscus on top of the water.


what do you mean? colaborate more please.


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## Pssh (May 23, 2011)

you mean elaborate?  Collaborate means join together.


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## SandDeku (May 23, 2011)

Bugs In Cyberspace said:


> Despite being one of the most numerous arthropods on the planet, springtails are difficult to collect in sufficient numbers to start a colony. Also, many backyard species don't seem to fare as well in captivty as ones available in the amphibian feeder industry.
> 
> By laying flat debris over bare soil, you can generally find them using it as cover a few days later. Often, they will be upside-down on the underside of the board. They seem more common during the wetter seasons, and even now a few days of dryness will cause them to hide (here in the urban Pacific NW).


I will try that. Maybe ill yield some luck. Since I have like 100's of toadlets to feed and I need to k eep them untill they're a month old or so. So that I can pick out the stronger feeders and all the ones that ussually die within the first month die out. and the ones that ussually live will be the ones I can pick and the rest I can release back where I found them(american toadlets).

Currently I'm running out of fruitflies... they're hydei... The only ones they sell.


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## myrmecophile (May 23, 2011)

After having them in captivity that long, releasing them back into the wild is a very bad idea and quite probably illegal where you live.


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## SandDeku (May 23, 2011)

myrmecophile said:


> After having them in captivity that long, releasing them back into the wild is a very bad idea and quite probably illegal where you live.


I checked with the laws already.... And and! I also have a backup plan. Should I not be able to really release them I have a friend with a large man made pond in his  yard. He said he wouldn't mind them in his pond. Or I could give them away to anyone who wants a toadlet or few. lol. 

but I already checked on a frog forum they said its actually "ok" to release them back once they grow up. Plus having them in captivity doesn't change anything. They're led by instincts sooo... yeah its not like they'll NOT run away when a predator is nearby.

What I'm looking for is answers for feeding them. Like Im thinking springtails will be a good idea. Though I may release a large number of them soon so that I don't have to worry when they grow bigger. But I want to keep say atleast 20 so if one dies for whatever reason I still have a wide selection to pick the healthiest and the others give away


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## Malhavoc's (May 23, 2011)

realising them into a pond in the yard is the same as realising them, its simple. do NOT do it, period, you have altered their biological balance with forieng bacteria fungal etc cultures that are now using these toads as a host, releasing them can be catastrophic to the wild populace. While all of this in theory is plausable, it is best to be avoided. end of story.

 It has little to do with the toad itself surviving but what it shares.


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## SandDeku (May 23, 2011)

Malhavoc's said:


> realising them into a pond in the yard is the same as realising them, its simple. do NOT do it, period, you have altered their biological balance with forieng bacteria fungal etc cultures that are now using these toads as a host, releasing them can be catastrophic to the wild populace. While all of this in theory is plausable, it is best to be avoided. end of story.
> 
> It has little to do with the toad itself surviving but what it shares.


IS there anyway possible to kill the foreing bacteria, fungal, etc from the tadpole toadlets? If not what can I do? I mean there's like 200-500toadlets... I was doing what I was told was okay to do. 
 Any advice?

Maybe I could make a pen for them outside? Like a large pen that they can't get out of via digging or climbing and that they will enjoy? That way they get natural insects, natural sunlight, etc, etc? Like they do with box turtles.

Though I could sell them online or give them away. Depends on my options. :x But if either--- I rather wait untill they're a bit bigger to make sure I give away or sell away some healthy specimens. I'd feel bad about selling/giving away toadlets.


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## Malhavoc's (May 23, 2011)

SandDeku said:


> IS there anyway possible to kill the foreing bacteria, fungal, etc from the tadpole toadlets? If not what can I do? I mean there's like 200-500toadlets... I was doing what I was told was okay to do.
> Any advice?
> 
> Maybe I could make a pen for them outside? Like a large pen that they can't get out of via digging or climbing and that they will enjoy? That way they get natural insects, natural sunlight, etc, etc? Like they do with box turtles.
> ...


1) regard the laws with the distrabution of toads and wildlife in your area and state/country long before selling. Im sure you've done it
2) no, once you take something from the wild you are stuck with it unless your going to euthanize it
3) by putting them back outside you are again introducing them to the exterio enviroment giving contagion a chance to spread.
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In short, think ahead, before collecting a clutch of young toads. you could however let them canabalize. euthanize. or perhaps talk to a local uni about disection. etc. good places to mass offload them.


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## SandDeku (May 23, 2011)

Malhavoc's said:


> 1) regard the laws with the distrabution of toads and wildlife in your area and state/country long before selling. Im sure you've done it
> 2) no, once you take something from the wild you are stuck with it unless your going to euthanize it
> 3) by putting them back outside you are again introducing them to the exterio enviroment giving contagion a chance to spread.
> ---------------
> ...


That'd be horrible to let them canabilize. I was told this was an okay thing as long as I release them after they  morphed into toadlets. Mine are just turning into toadlets I only have like 40 fully morphed toadlets at best. 

The rest are still morphing. I thought that it was an okay thing to do since the toadlets weren't in my room and were in the garage for the most of their being. 

I never sold animals before but ill look into  that. That would be a better idea. I say sell because I rather see them to a good home. Not someone who wants everything for free and thus wont provide them the care they need. I maybe able to unload them at a few local petstores that I know and am well aware of people doing that there with their fish stocks and such. Plus they'd sell like crazy and I could make sure they get a better home than being euthanized. 

I'm looking more into the laws about releasing the toadlets. Ill call the fish division of wildlife instead of just looking at the laws. That may better clear it up.


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## Crysta (May 24, 2011)

It's not really a concern about 'laws' when releasing toadlits.. but what ever pathogens they have gathered up in the murky water in a container of the garage that wasn't properly purified in natural pond/puddle place, etc. and then the non-immunities to the natural environment the toads don't have anymore, due to frequent water changes.  (or infrequent water changes, depending on the situation)

It's perfectly natural to let them cannibalize, it's not horrible. It happens to toad-lits  even in their natural depleting ponds.  You're letting human emotion getting ahead of you on this part.

If you have a snake, or more specifically a garter snake as a pet they will gladly gooble them up.

You probably should have just collected 20 toad-lits at the beginning, but of course its too late now.

oh springtails
Take some natural peatmoss from an outdoors location with a small section of natural moss, put it in an aquarium, close and seal up the aquarium/tubby container (small bottle cap of a waterdish should help) and wait ...they should pop up within a week or 2. I would put a small plant in there as well, that is not treated with pesticides and some leaf litter.(for decomposing material) Also Put a few worms in the soil as well. Don't put pill bugs in it, yet. 
When they've multiplied enough, just remove the spring-tails from the container.


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## SandDeku (May 24, 2011)

Crysta said:


> It's not really a concern about 'laws' when releasing toadlits.. but what ever pathogens they have gathered up in the murky water in a container of the garage that wasn't properly purified in natural pond/puddle place, etc. and then the non-immunities to the natural environment the toads don't have anymore, due to frequent water changes.  (or infrequent water changes, depending on the situation)
> 
> It's perfectly natural to let them cannibalize, it's not horrible. It happens to toad-lits  even in their natural depleting ponds.  You're letting human emotion getting ahead of you on this part.
> 
> ...


As for pathogens--- can't I treat them for whatever they maybe carrying? 

As for the springtails. Where do I get natural peatmoss? Is it possible if I can just buy peatmoss and put it in a large container outside with natural moss and put food or whatever in the container? I see people getting major pest problems in their houses with springtails and WANT to get rid of them--- yet here Iam WANTING to get some. :/ Ironic huh?

P.s. I didn't gather the tadpoles. I gathered their parents. I have their parents that I Gathered from the creek/pond I found them at(they were at the slow moving water area)  and the parents were mating so i let them continue mate and I asked some people online and they said it'd be fine to release the toadlets once they hit that certain point and I can just keep the ones I want--- but to make sure that the tadpoles/eggs/toadlets never came in contact with any of my captive bred ones.  I always washed my hands for a minute prior to handling the tank... I did weekly water changes. Quite alot died but not all. And I still have a great deal of them left. So I only wanted to keep a few and release the rest. Should I not be able to do that I may just give a great deal away and let them cannibalize after a while. Yes I am letting my human emotions in my way. I'm human after all--- as are you.


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## Crysta (May 24, 2011)

oh, all peatmoss is natural,(with no pesticides) I just noticed the ones outside in my woods have a higher source of springtails lol

...just don't release the lil ones... as we've been saying. ... it probably is possible to kill a bacteria on a toadpol, but you may not be aware of a simple strain(I have no idea of what that strain would be, but its a possibility...and toads are veeeerrry sensitive to stuff in the water, so you might just kill it by trying that?). Also, the toad does not have its immunities it gains from growing up in its _natural_ would be location -> because you removed the parents <- you would be sending them to their doom if you where to return them, and also, the quite possible doom of that locations current occupants. (amphibian wise if i remember correctly) 

Acquire a pet garter snake from the petstore - he will love the toadlit treats.


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## Galapoheros (May 24, 2011)

Although it's prob not a good idea to let them go, it's probably not a problem either.  I've been reading this thread and I hate to see people get too fanatic or "scared" of something that might not be a problem.  The chytrid prob with frogs, nobody knows where that came from.  It could've have been here for millions of years, coming in waves over time.  And the flue-like problem with our native tortoises announced years ago, we haven't heard much more about that, all I've seen out in the wild have looked healthy to me.  At least it was the toads being talked about.  I scanned this thread at first and thought, "Oh no, this guy is afraid to let Springtails go back to nature." haha.  A fungal or bacterial infection a toad will get in captivity is going to be everywhere in nature, nature keeps it in check.  Let the toad go and nature will probably take care of the toads infection if it's not too bad, just like the grain mite problem the invert hobby has, it's not a typical prob in nature because of the pred mites and other factors in it's natural environment.  And a "deadly strain" coming from the hobby doesn't sound realistic to me, are there any biochemist, pathologists, etc. here that could state the odds here?  I just need to see more hard core info about this kind of thing and I'm ready to look at it if somebody can show me.  There is probably a lot to look at, I simply haven't looked for the info yet.  I think of dead cow carcasses in a small tank in nature, tadpoles swimming around there, fecal run-off, these guys can put up with a lot.


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## SandDeku (May 24, 2011)

Galapoheros said:


> Although it's prob not a good idea to let them go, it's probably not a problem either.  I've been reading this thread and I hate to see people get too fanatic or "scared" of something that might not be a problem.  The chytrid prob with frogs, nobody knows where that came from.  It could've have been here for millions of years, coming in waves over time.  And the flue-like problem with our native tortoises announced years ago, we haven't heard much more about that, all I've seen out in the wild have looked healthy to me.  At least it was the toads being talked about.  I scanned this thread at first and thought, "Oh no, this guy is afraid to let Springtails go back to nature." haha.  A fungal or bacterial infection a toad will get in captivity is going to be everywhere in nature, nature keeps it in check.  Let the toad go and nature will probably take care of the toads infection if it's not too bad, just like the grain mite problem the invert hobby has, it's not a typical prob in nature because of the pred mites and other factors in it's natural environment.  And a "deadly strain" coming from the hobby doesn't sound realistic to me, are there any biochemist, pathologists, etc. here that could state the odds here?  I just need to see more hard core info about this kind of thing and I'm ready to look at it if somebody can show me.  There is probably a lot to look at, I simply haven't looked for the info yet.  I think of dead cow carcasses in a small tank in nature, tadpoles swimming around there, fecal run-off, these guys can put up with a lot.  Although it's prob not a good idea to let them go, it's probably not a problem either.  I've been reading this thread and I hate to see people get too fanatic or "scared" of something that might not be a problem.  The chytrid prob with frogs, nobody knows where that came from.  It could've have been here for millions of years, coming in waves over time.  And the flue-like problem with our native tortoises announced years ago, we haven't heard much more about that, all I've seen out in the wild have looked healthy to me.  At least it was the toads being talked about.  I scanned this thread at first and thought, "Oh no, this guy is afraid to let Springtails go back to nature." haha.  A fungal or bacterial infection a toad will get in captivity is going to be everywhere in nature, nature keeps it in check.  Let the toad go and nature will probably take care of the toads infection if it's not too bad, just like the grain mite problem the invert hobby has, it's not a typical prob in nature because of the pred mites and other factors in it's natural environment.  And a "deadly strain" coming from the hobby doesn't sound realistic to me, are there any biochemist, pathologists, etc. here that could state the odds here?  I just need to see more hard core info about this kind of thing and I'm ready to look at it if somebody can show me.  There is probably a lot to look at, I simply haven't looked for the info yet.  I think of dead cow carcasses in a small tank in nature, tadpoles swimming around there, fecal run-off, these guys can put up with a lot.


That's confusing. I was just told it wasn't really a problem to begin with... Since anything they may acquire would more or so be if I didn't run a "clean" set up on all my animals' cages. My fishtanks and terrariums are almost all the time clean(not saying like its spotless--- animals do take a dump here and there--- I just spot clean and do regular cleaning). I always freak out about everything. Just don't think this would really be that big of an issue... Tadpoles came from WILDCAUGHT toads--- therefore that means any "Wild" bacteria that was from the pond and in the parental toads---> would have been passed onto the offspring. That's how it goes. Plus the toads laid eggs immediately. I never placed them with the other wild caught toads. They laid eggs in a clean enclosure. I then moved the eggs to the 29g with all the filtration/air pumps they hatched. Turned the filter off. Put in more air pumps. Did regular weekly water cleaning and etc. 

I may just let them go cannibalistic(not all but a great deal). But I'm wondering--- i s that even possible amongst SMALL american TOADLETS? Maybe ill just treat them for whatever -they- may have and let them loose. OR I may just give them away/sell them. I don't think toadlets will go cannibalistic on the same sized brethren. 

I also don't think they're that sensitive like other people are saying--- that's where they got me. I mean if you think they're ultra sensitive you must be drunk or something because I'ved seen tadpoles in dirty water comming from human sewers and the tadpoles grown okay. I even seen weird film atop the water making me think some sort of oil spill. AND STILL tadpoles growing in that water. MAYBE ill get a good camera some day and take pictures of the friggin' places I'ved been too. lololol. These places are like wastelands. Smell like stangnant and putrid waters. Still frogs/toads grow on them. 

So I DEFENITELY don't think panacure will kill them. lol. Especially since when I do water changes I do them quick and they may be a bit rough sometimes. I pour the water in quickly(its too heavy of a bucket....---- you try doing water changes for over 200's of gallons--- all summed up in tanks and then scold me about it . lol). Sure its not the best thing that I rushed the water changes but non died during that process.  I even once put in hotter water by accident which wa sa few degreess hotter. And once it was colder.... nothing happened. They kept on lkiving.  toads are hardier imho.


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## Malhavoc's (May 24, 2011)

Galapoheros said:


> Although it's prob not a good idea to let them go, it's probably not a problem either.  I've been reading this thread and I hate to see people get too fanatic or "scared" of something that might not be a problem.  The chytrid prob with frogs, nobody knows where that came from.  It could've have been here for millions of years, coming in waves over time.  And the flue-like problem with our native tortoises announced years ago, we haven't heard much more about that, all I've seen out in the wild have looked healthy to me.  At least it was the toads being talked about.  I scanned this thread at first and thought, "Oh no, this guy is afraid to let Springtails go back to nature." haha.  A fungal or bacterial infection a toad will get in captivity is going to be everywhere in nature, nature keeps it in check.  Let the toad go and nature will probably take care of the toads infection if it's not too bad, just like the grain mite problem the invert hobby has, it's not a typical prob in nature because of the pred mites and other factors in it's natural environment.  And a "deadly strain" coming from the hobby doesn't sound realistic to me, are there any biochemist, pathologists, etc. here that could state the odds here?  I just need to see more hard core info about this kind of thing and I'm ready to look at it if somebody can show me.  There is probably a lot to look at, I simply haven't looked for the info yet.  I think of dead cow carcasses in a small tank in nature, tadpoles swimming around there, fecal run-off, these guys can put up with a lot.


Thank you for emphasising the point in several places gala; you are right, toads can put up with alot making them the perfect hosts. 

Again your right, Nature takes care of itself; a good case of this is the ice ages the planet goes through due to imbalances building up- you know how this goes a complete whipe and start again same can be said for minor ecosystems when a human induced plague can occur, and other amphibians are highly sensitive (que missing frogs in cities)


 As for a good solid example that you wanted to look into, que the cricket epidemic, one virus strain alone whiped out almost all captive bread crickets that we use as a staple in our industry, how was this accomplished? by the spread of the virus through human interference, it traveled from europe to north america in a very short time, this virus was also a threat to our wild ecosystems aswell.

When talking about amphibians you have to remember that they transfer oxygen directly through their skin layer making them much much more sensitive then other animals, this has been proven and documented, we have impacted their populaces alot as is. if his toad was host to just one thing it has the potential to kill an entire pond off.

 And we're not just limiting it there, I am sure you are fimiliar with radiation sickness, and the spread of radation? our houses and garages are litered with all kinds of chemicle polutants, even having soap residue on the hands can be transfered to an animal-> then to the next animal-> etc


 Yes, this is all very doomish, very scary. and may have low odds, but if the odds are higher then one, I would say- dont do it when it comes to an already damaged ecosystem, there is no reason to make things worse.

When you collect wild animals you should always think ahead, I have seen Sandeku post on many topics lately about a large amount of various animals and he is doing a very good job asking for advice but one must always remember, if you are going to capture anything with any intent of breeding occur you must plan for the offspring before they happen not during.

T L : DR :: Never release animals into the wild, Even if you caught them there after housing them for a short time<->long time. you are taking a sensless risk. and plan ahead of any animals you do have, what you will do with them/breeding etc.


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SPRINGTAILS:
for toadlets you can also do an isopod culture instead of springtails, these breed prolificly and their young should be small enough for toadlet ingestion, same with pinhead crickets as the average toadlet is the same size as a dart frog. you could also look into ants, which are more prolific, small rice beetles etc. pitfall trips should work very well for collecting of various small insects for you to try, remember toads will eat anything that moves at least once, you can experiment with what they like/ what breeds proflificly and can be cultured.


edit:
Also guys we're not talking about just toads here, or amphibians but the impact of those toad on everything of where he lets them go. It doesnt take a genious to relize that wildlife near or around human populaces is no where near that of the same graphical region without human aid. we alter things drasticly, then most complain about it.


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## Galapoheros (May 24, 2011)

I understand your stance on it, it's a legit stance imo.  I understand you liking the blanket rule.  But I have the view that it can go overboard, just like anything else.  "Radiation sickness"?  I'm talking about native toad-lets this guy has.  He's not next to a melt down, high levels of radiation in areas can be natural regardless, radon, animals do fine there.  "Cricket virus", was that due to a non-native encounter?  That was a good example.  The crickets seem fine now besides.  Balance? maybe I agree with you but trying to create a balance on the topic.  "Ice age", not going to happen by letting some baby native toads go, haha, just kiddin, had to take that one out of context.  A tiny amount of soap residue wouldn't cause a problem to a population.  The spiders that wander in and out of our homes, the toads that hop in and out of our garages at night, etc., I would say this is not a problem to populations, ...but I know you might say, "but is it?"  I'm not going to kill a toad because I think it's contaminated if I find it in my garage, ..well, maybe MY garage, it's pretty bad in there.  Many amphibians can put up with a lot, not because they are able to carry many hosts, but because they are able to ward them off with so many natural chemical agents they produce that I know you know about. If I catch a toad and keep if for three days, I'm going to let it go with no worries whatsoever.  I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your stance but I question the reason-ability of making it law-like in every case.  I still wonder about it, if it's best to make it law-like or not.  One reason I think this kind of hard-core thinking on an issue bothers me because there is a law here is Texas that has made it a personal one to me so I think I'm being a little biased on the issue.  A game warden here told me that a person cannot legally pick up a slug, grasshopper, or any other living thing without a hunting license here in Tx, ..on their own property!, it has become unreasonable.  He said it's usually not enforced but that it is there.   Anyway, I like you bringing it up, the risks, people do need to think about it.


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## SandDeku (May 25, 2011)

Malhavoc's said:


> Thank you for emphasising the point in several places gala; you are right, toads can put up with alot making them the perfect hosts.
> 
> Again your right, Nature takes care of itself; a good case of this is the ice ages the planet goes through due to imbalances building up- you know how this goes a complete whipe and start again same can be said for minor ecosystems when a human induced plague can occur, and other amphibians are highly sensitive (que missing frogs in cities)
> 
> ...


I'm thinking I can just find some homes for the toadlets via selling/giving away/etc. So that problem just came out with its own solution. As well as for isopods--- never had luck breeding them. Isn't it that they only breed "once" a year? 

I could try ants. I just don't know if they're toxic for the toadlets....

---------- Post added at 12:43 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:36 AM ----------




Galapoheros said:


> I understand your stance on it, it's a legit stance imo.  I understand you liking the blanket rule.  But I have the view that it can go overboard, just like anything else.  "Radiation sickness"?  I'm talking about native toad-lets this guy has.  He's not next to a melt down, high levels of radiation in areas can be natural regardless, radon, animals do fine there.  "Cricket virus", was that due to a non-native encounter?  That was a good example.  The crickets seem fine now besides.  Balance? maybe I agree with you but trying to create a balance on the topic.  "Ice age", not going to happen by letting some baby native toads go, haha, just kiddin, had to take that one out of context.  A tiny amount of soap residue wouldn't cause a problem to a population.  The spiders that wander in and out of our homes, the toads that hop in and out of our garages at night, etc., I would say this is not a problem to populations, ...but I know you might say, "but is it?"  I'm not going to kill a toad because I think it's contaminated if I find it in my garage, ..well, maybe MY garage, it's pretty bad in there.  Many amphibians can put up with a lot, not because they are able to carry many hosts, but because they are able to ward them off with so many natural chemical agents they produce that I know you know about. If I catch a toad and keep if for three days, I'm going to let it go with no worries whatsoever.  I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your stance but I question the reason-ability of making it law-like in every case.  I still wonder about it, if it's best to make it law-like or not.  One reason I think this kind of hard-core thinking on an issue bothers me because there is a law here is Texas that has made it a personal one to me so I think I'm being a little biased on the issue.  A game warden here told me that a person cannot legally pick up a slug, grasshopper, or any other living thing without a hunting license here in Tx, ..on their own property!, it has become unreasonable.  He said it's usually not enforced but that it is there.   Anyway, I like you bringing it up, the risks, people do need to think about it.



The whole thing is confusing.... x____x;;;; I just let the toads breed having thought in mind that I'd release basically 96% of them and letting them live out their days in the wild where they can roam free. Because in captivity many people say their chances are less of survival. But look at this way: No predators, -ussually- no "overcrowding", no pollution(where I saw some ponds with already pollution and still toads breed there), high amounts of foods, clean water, good shelter, etc. etc.. 

I pretty much figured it'd be a good learning project and I'd be doing the toad population a favor. But I'm extremely gullible--- so right now Iam at a stand off of what I should do....


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## Malhavoc's (May 25, 2011)

Some ants are more potent then others a 'smell' test usualy works well enough for my tastes, some ants like carpenters and the subterrianian orange ones are very much so loaded with their acidic spray, which prometly smells like citrus or viniger, alarming a few and smelling will tell you how much they put out in defense. The smaller redish ones I've noticed dont spray nearly as much.


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## SandDeku (May 25, 2011)

Malhavoc's said:


> Some ants are more potent then others a 'smell' test usualy works well enough for my tastes, some ants like carpenters and the subterrianian orange ones are very much so loaded with their acidic spray, which prometly smells like citrus or viniger, alarming a few and smelling will tell you how much they put out in defense. The smaller redish ones I've noticed dont spray nearly as much.


I bought more fruitflies. I fed all the adults as there's a ton of larvae already in the container. Or what I believe is larvae of fruit flies. Whitish worms larger than the fruit flies themselves. By 2x or so. I have atleast 5flies in the container.


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## Malhavoc's (May 25, 2011)

fruitflies will work perfectly, I still think they can handle larger prey but it certianly will get them started.


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## SandDeku (May 26, 2011)

Malhavoc's said:


> fruitflies will work perfectly, I still think they can handle larger prey but it certianly will get them started.


I bought them small crickets a bit larger than the pinheads but basically and literary the same sized as the toadlets... I haven't seen the crickets since but that could be cause I haven't gave a good luck or the crickets may have escaped(no lid) lol. 

I bought fruitflies today---basically emptied almost all the adults leaving only 3-5flies in there into the pile of toadlets. Toadlets went at them voraciously but they're kinda "skittish" when they're feeding. Like they miss or may loose interest--- then another toadlet gobbles them up before the one that lost interest regains interest. lolol There's a TON of larvae in the container where the fruitflies came with. I'm wondering what I can use for my medium. I can't buy the medium or make it due to I'm missing some stuff.... like yeast.... And my mom just thinks its ridiculous to make a medium for the fruitflies out of household stuff. She gives me that shhpeal about how there's poor people in need of homes and foods. But not to sound messed up--- I just hear that line sooo much everywhere I tend to not really give a hoot about it. I make donations and such, that's the farthest I really will go. I'm not a die hard fan about charities. Not saying I wouldn't help. But more or less saying-- it happens I'm not a miracle worker... I'm what? 20? Anywho.... Point short---- all I got to work with is:
-Sugar
-Vinegar
-Honey(pure)
-Baking soda
-Water(duh-- lol)
-Apples(can only really take one though--- my dad is like uppity about his apples....)
-Sometimes tomatoes
-Rarely bananas(currently not in)
-Rice
-Flour
-Milk powder
We sometimes and I say sometimes but very very very rarely mashed potato mixed. We used to eat it alot but my mom stopped buying it... Soooo... yeah...

Anything I can do to make an "okay" mix that will last me a long time and works great as a medium? and won't acquire mold soo quickly? Btw I have a blender--- but i'd rather not use it... My mom is possesive of it.... That'd be something I'd have to do without her even being here which may take a while since she's always home or atleast al mostt always...

Any ideas? :/


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## Crysta (May 26, 2011)

This is why I love google...
http://www.ehow.com/how_4529925_grow-fruit-flies.html


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## Malhavoc's (May 26, 2011)

If you have the money to order fruitflies just go to the market and buy a small bag of yeast, otherwise you could try the mixture without it, I am not entirly certian what role the yeast takes in the whole process.


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## SandDeku (May 26, 2011)

Malhavoc's said:


> If you have the money to order fruitflies just go to the market and buy a small bag of yeast, otherwise you could try the mixture without it, I am not entirly certian what role the yeast takes in the whole process.


to prevent any fungus growth.... the one where I fed all the adults is now getting some larvae in.  i think they were laid by the previous adults. So now I have I guess "two" cultures. I wonder if I can just use a fruit in there and  let it be just t he fruit as a medium.


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## Crysta (May 26, 2011)

read the article i linked


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## SandDeku (May 26, 2011)

Crysta said:


> read the article i linked


I already did... I'am looking for alternatives.. I already know the plain out forms of breeding them with normal mediums. I'm trying to find alternatives FOR yeast.


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## Crysta (May 26, 2011)

SandDeku said:


> I already did... I'am looking for alternatives.. I already know the plain out forms of breeding them with normal mediums. I'm trying to find alternatives FOR yeast.


Ah, well, why not just go to the grocery store and buy a 1$ packet of yeast that will last you for a long while? 

you dont really need the yeast, it just means your stuff gets ..bloopy quicker. I had fruitflies appear all the time in my fruit bowl and they did just fine without yeast. lol


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## SandDeku (May 27, 2011)

Crysta said:


> Ah, well, why not just go to the grocery store and buy a 1$ packet of yeast that will last you for a long while?
> 
> you dont really need the yeast, it just means your stuff gets ..bloopy quicker. I had fruitflies appear all the time in my fruit bowl and they did just fine without yeast. lol


Mk can I just use fruits? instead of going through the whole process? xD

Wonder if honey would be okay...


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## moose35 (May 30, 2011)

SandDeku said:


> Mk can I just use fruits? instead of going through the whole process? xD
> 
> Wonder if honey would be okay...


why not just listen to the advice your given??   :?
your not gonna get too much help that way.



moose


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## SandDeku (May 30, 2011)

moose35 said:


> why not just listen to the advice your given??   :?
> your not gonna get too much help that way.
> 
> 
> ...


I did... my fruitflies are breeding like crazy too.


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## moose35 (May 31, 2011)

MK. .                                   .






moose


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## khil (May 31, 2011)

thanks for the link crysta
I'd breed fruit flies but the substance is always a pain, I've never gotten it right. It's either too watery, or molds, and I'd rather save money than buy the premade kind. I wonder if just fruits will actually work, haha.


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## SandDeku (Jun 1, 2011)

khil said:


> thanks for the link crysta
> I'd breed fruit flies but the substance is always a pain, I've never gotten it right. It's either too watery, or molds, and I'd rather save money than buy the premade kind. I wonder if just fruits will actually work, haha.


If you use just fruits it may work. But IN MY OPINION you MAY wanna dust that up with something that prevents mold growth... and fruit flies like humidity though.. You may be onto something though


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## LurkingUnderground (Jan 9, 2019)

In the middle of winter. I need to find out if I got any springtails in our house. I could probably use them for my cages. mostly because every time I give them food I don't get to find their discards till the next day which is when it always molds. And for the B. Ablopilosum it would be likely benificben to find out how wet the soil needs to be. I been going like. For a 16+ deli cup. I would put in three teaspoons or so of water and let the substrate soak it up. Maybe I am adding to much and even if I were to use a spray bottle. I would not know how wet the little guy would need. I heard that the Grammostola pulchripes is more of a dry one. And so I don't really add much more then just a water dish. Still would likely need to get a spray bottle. I got a few but they are washed out cleaning bottles and not sure if they will be safe enough and washed out enough. 
If I am watering the substrate too much then I guess I don't need any temperate/local springs but if a weekly(roughly) wetting is ok then I need to get some springs. Just to help deal with mould. And sadly B. Ablopilosum is about 2"+ and went and grabbed a breeder box medium. Which is too big and too small. I might use it for meal worm breeding? I forgot if what I read was they needed a container with light exposure. Currently I just shuved them into a imperial margarine container. 
Anyway I am looking at controlling the mold that is growing in the cages.


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## LurkingUnderground (Jan 9, 2019)

LurkingUnderground said:


> In the middle of winter. I need to find out if I got any springtails in our house. I could probably use them for my cages. mostly because every time I give them food I don't get to find their discards till the next day which is when it always molds. And for the B. Ablopilosum it would be likely benificben to find out how wet the soil needs to be. I been going like. For a 16+ deli cup. I would put in three teaspoons or so of water and let the substrate soak it up. Maybe I am adding to much and even if I were to use a spray bottle. I would not know how wet the little guy would need. I heard that the Grammostola pulchripes is more of a dry one. And so I don't really add much more then just a water dish. Still would likely need to get a spray bottle. I got a few but they are washed out cleaning bottles and not sure if they will be safe enough and washed out enough.
> If I am watering the substrate too much then I guess I don't need any temperate/local springs but if a weekly(roughly) wetting is ok then I need to get some springs. Just to help deal with mould. And sadly B. Ablopilosum is about 2"+ and went and grabbed a breeder box medium. Which is too big and too small. I might use it for meal worm breeding? I forgot if what I read was they needed a container with light exposure. Currently I just shuved them into a imperial margarine container.
> Anyway I am looking at controlling the mold that is growing in the cages.


Oh and originally I was thinking of getting woodlice but was informed that they might attack the molting T's.


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## antinous (Jan 9, 2019)

LurkingUnderground said:


> Oh and originally I was thinking of getting woodlice but was informed that they might attack the molting T's.


If you get dwarf isopods they'll be fine, just some of the larger species have been known to 'munch' on freshly molted inverts.


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## LurkingUnderground (Jan 9, 2019)

antinous said:


> If you get dwarf isopods they'll be fine, just some of the larger species have been known to 'munch' on freshly molted inverts.


Ok so then I would be good that I did not go with. A. Depressum. The kind I liked.

Edit: If going with Tarantulacanada.ca website which ones they have would be the ones to get? So I can pick out my favorite. If I can safely use them. That is.


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## LurkingUnderground (Jan 9, 2019)

Or I can just list off the names...
Trichorhina tomentosa
Trichoniscidae sp
Porcellionides pruinosus, wait.  This one is 12mm so not the "dwarf" kind that leaves the first two right?


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## SamanthaMarikian (Jan 9, 2019)

LurkingUnderground said:


> In the middle of winter. I need to find out if I got any springtails in our house. I could probably use them for my cages. mostly because every time I give them food I don't get to find their discards till the next day which is when it always molds. And for the B. Ablopilosum it would be likely benificben to find out how wet the soil needs to be. I been going like. For a 16+ deli cup. I would put in three teaspoons or so of water and let the substrate soak it up. Maybe I am adding to much and even if I were to use a spray bottle. I would not know how wet the little guy would need. I heard that the Grammostola pulchripes is more of a dry one. And so I don't really add much more then just a water dish. Still would likely need to get a spray bottle. I got a few but they are washed out cleaning bottles and not sure if they will be safe enough and washed out enough.
> If I am watering the substrate too much then I guess I don't need any temperate/local springs but if a weekly(roughly) wetting is ok then I need to get some springs. Just to help deal with mould. And sadly B. Ablopilosum is about 2"+ and went and grabbed a breeder box medium. Which is too big and too small. I might use it for meal worm breeding? I forgot if what I read was they needed a container with light exposure. Currently I just shuved them into a imperial margarine container.
> Anyway I am looking at controlling the mold that is growing in the cages.


i use dwarf white isopods and springtails for my tropical bioactive enclosures. What food are you feeding that molds THAT quickly? The dwarf whites i have are really good with really wet soil bc my timor loves her water and gets water everywhere and the isopods are thriving. Theyre really hardy and are keeping up with mold growing in all of my tropical enclosures including the one for my scolopendra spinosissma and he doesnt seem to mind them at all


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## LurkingUnderground (Jan 10, 2019)

SamanthaMarikian said:


> i use dwarf white isopods and springtails for my tropical bioactive enclosures. What food are you feeding that molds THAT quickly? The dwarf whites i have are really good with really wet soil bc my timor loves her water and gets water everywhere and the isopods are thriving. Theyre really hardy and are keeping up with mold growing in all of my tropical enclosures including the one for my scolopendra spinosissma and he doesnt seem to mind them at all


Meal worms. The only dwarf I can find for sale are the purple and I guess white? Clear? I don't know.
These guys
Trichorhina tomentosa
Trichoniscidae sp

It gets mouldy like after one or two days?


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## SamanthaMarikian (Jan 10, 2019)

LurkingUnderground said:


> Meal worms. The only dwarf I can find for sale are the purple and I guess white? Clear? I don't know.
> These guys
> Trichorhina tomentosa
> Trichoniscidae sp
> ...


if its not eaten within one id switch out for new food. Or feeding live mealworms. idk much about isopods eating dead mealworms or lots of mold but springtails might help with the mold. or increasing ventilation so mold doesnt grownas fast


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## SamanthaMarikian (Jan 10, 2019)

LurkingUnderground said:


> Meal worms. The only dwarf I can find for sale are the purple and I guess white? Clear? I don't know.
> These guys
> Trichorhina tomentosa
> Trichoniscidae sp
> ...


if you’re feeding the mealworms which now that i read it again is i think what you meant idk if isopods can live in a mealworm bin but might be wrong. if you feed them smaller quantities of a food or switch to something that doesnt mold as quickly and get more ventilation it should solve your problem


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## Polenth (Jan 10, 2019)

LurkingUnderground said:


> Meal worms. The only dwarf I can find for sale are the purple and I guess white? Clear? I don't know.
> These guys
> Trichorhina tomentosa
> Trichoniscidae sp
> ...


_Trichorhina tomentosa_ are dwarf white isopods, white tropical woodlice, and various other common names like that. They tend to stay in the soil and they're small. No woodlice are completely safe, but they're less likely to eat living things. They're the ones people are recommending to you.


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## SamanthaMarikian (Jan 10, 2019)

Polenth said:


> _Trichorhina tomentosa_ are dwarf white isopods, white tropical woodlice, and various other common names like that. They tend to stay in the soil and they're small. No woodlice are completely safe, but they're less likely to eat living things. They're the ones people are recommending to you.



yeah i rarely see mine out and about except to move to another log to chill under.


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## LurkingUnderground (Jan 10, 2019)

SamanthaMarikian said:


> if you’re feeding the mealworms which now that i read it again is i think what you meant idk if isopods can live in a mealworm bin but might be wrong. if you feed them smaller quantities of a food or switch to something that doesnt mold as quickly and get more ventilation it should solve your problem


Oh no I meant I was feeding the T's meal worms


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## SamanthaMarikian (Jan 10, 2019)

LurkingUnderground said:


> Oh no I meant I was feeding the T's meal worms


oh why are they molding then? If theyre alive at least. I think you need some more ventilation bc i’ve never seen them mold


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## LurkingUnderground (Jan 10, 2019)

SamanthaMarikian said:


> oh why are they molding then? If theyre alive at least. I think you need some more ventilation bc i’ve never seen them mold


Haha oh. No no. The discarded remains molds on my 8/10 times before I can find it. As in the spider has finished and threw it away. But the "empty juice box" is so squished it is hard to find anyway. 5/8 mm?


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## LurkingUnderground (Jan 10, 2019)

SamanthaMarikian said:


> yeah i rarely see mine out and about except to move to another log to chill under.


I went with the purple dwarf. I hope that is ok?

Edit Trichoniscidae sp (purple dwarf) like 6mm?
Purple is my favorite colour so I hope they are still ok.


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## SamanthaMarikian (Jan 10, 2019)

LurkingUnderground said:


> I went with the purple dwarf. I hope that is ok?
> 
> Edit Trichoniscidae sp (purple dwarf) like 6mm?
> Purple is my favorite colour so I hope they are still ok.





LurkingUnderground said:


> Haha oh. No no. The discarded remains molds on my 8/10 times before I can find it. As in the spider has finished and threw it away. But the "empty juice box" is so squished it is hard to find anyway. 5/8 mm?


Oooh ok lol. I think the dwarf purples you got and springtails should help with the mold and help with the remains once they reproduce.


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## LurkingUnderground (Jan 10, 2019)

SamanthaMarikian said:


> Oooh ok lol. I think the dwarf purples you got and springtails should help with the mold and help with the remains once they reproduce.


I think everyone said go with the dwarfs because I can't seem to find the right kind of springtails. Everyone has tropical and I was told I need temperate.


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## SamanthaMarikian (Jan 10, 2019)

LurkingUnderground said:


> I think everyone said go with the dwarfs because I can't seem to find the right kind of springtails. Everyone has tropical and I was told I need temperate.



i just googled them and someone is selling them on eBay


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## LurkingUnderground (Jan 10, 2019)

SamanthaMarikian said:


> i just googled them and someone is selling them on eBay


In Canada? It might be the same one. But I think they were USA based and not able to sell to Canada or something. Because cause I been having trouble.

Oh also i only have a Grammostola pulchripes. A brachypelma Ablopilosum and soon a brachypelma Boehmei. Only the B. A so far is the one I have that needs moist substrate. I basically water their cage till the substrate has soaked the water up with out over doing it. I probably should get a spray bottle. Even if I have some empty cleaning bottles, like Windex or something, I don't know if they are washed enough so I might get a new one. But mostly I just been pouring water in. And letting it be absorbed by the soil.


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## LurkingUnderground (Jan 10, 2019)

How do you tell which one is the tropical or temperate springtails?
Other then collambola that is the only name I get when trying to make sure they are temp rather than tropical... I don't want them to just die from letting the substrate dry out Abit before watering it again. You know and this is the hardest thing to find which is which...


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## LurkingUnderground (Jan 10, 2019)

I mean some places list one as collembola and another as Collembola sp. X.x

Also trying to find places that ship to Canada.


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## LurkingUnderground (Jan 10, 2019)

SamanthaMarikian said:


> i just googled them and someone is selling them on eBay


I found someone selling them from Toronto Canada. But they are giant tropical. I don't know if that is anything that I am supposed to get. All I know. For the little extra water that a B. Ablopilosum likes temperate ones were suggested.


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## SamanthaMarikian (Jan 10, 2019)

LurkingUnderground said:


> In Canada? It might be the same one. But I think they were USA based and not able to sell to Canada or something. Because cause I been having trouble.
> 
> Oh also i only have a Grammostola pulchripes. A brachypelma Ablopilosum and soon a brachypelma Boehmei. Only the B. A so far is the one I have that needs moist substrate. I basically water their cage till the substrate has soaked the water up with out over doing it. I probably should get a spray bottle. Even if I have some empty cleaning bottles, like Windex or something, I don't know if they are washed enough so I might get a new one. But mostly I just been pouring water in. And letting it be absorbed by the soil.



i think misting would be the best for raising humidity for the T since it doesnt risk spoiling the soil and fungus n all that. idk much about tarantulas and spiders tbh i focus on reptiles and  the isopods i have. Why do you need temperate isopods vs the tropical ones? If its temps i think theyd be fine at room temperature bc mine are


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## LurkingUnderground (Jan 10, 2019)

SamanthaMarikian said:


> misting is the best for raising humidity since it doesnt risk spoiling the soil. idk much about tarantulas and spiders tbh i focus on reptiles and  the isopods i have. Why do you need temperate isopods vs the tropical ones? If its temps i think theyd be fine at room temperature bc mine are


Because my cages sit at room temperature. Or in a room at currently 20-21°c I don't need heating lamps or anything for my Ts


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## SamanthaMarikian (Jan 10, 2019)

LurkingUnderground said:


> Because my cages sit at room temperature. Or in a room at currently 20-21°c I don't need heating lamps or anything for my Ts



oooh ok lol yea thats too cold sorry lol. i hope you can find some temperate ones then. Do you have local expos?


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## LurkingUnderground (Jan 11, 2019)

SamanthaMarikian said:


> oooh ok lol yea thats too cold sorry lol. i hope you can find some temperate ones then. Do you have local expos?


Not that I know of.


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## SamanthaMarikian (Jan 11, 2019)

LurkingUnderground said:


> Not that I know of.


that sucks. if you’re in canada im pretty sure theres one in Ontario or Alberta if its not too far from you. i watched a few videos of it a while back


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## LurkingUnderground (Jan 11, 2019)

SamanthaMarikian said:


> that sucks. if you’re in canada im pretty sure theres one in Ontario or Alberta if its not too far from you. i watched a few videos of it a while back


Right in the middle of those two. I live in Manitoba


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## SamanthaMarikian (Jan 11, 2019)

LurkingUnderground said:


> Right in the middle of those two. I live in Manitoba


o ok. good luck finding some!


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## LurkingUnderground (Jan 12, 2019)

SamanthaMarikian said:


> o ok. good luck finding some!


Yeah


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## Polenth (Jan 12, 2019)

SamanthaMarikian said:


> i think misting would be the best for raising humidity for the T since it doesnt risk spoiling the soil and fungus n all that. idk much about tarantulas and spiders tbh i focus on reptiles and  the isopods i have. Why do you need temperate isopods vs the tropical ones? If its temps i think theyd be fine at room temperature bc mine are


Pouring water on the substrate doesn't harm the fungi or the soil at all. It's more effective than misting. It doesn't really matter if it's a tarantula or a woodlouse... the microclimate is created from controlling soil moisture and ventilation as appropriate for the species, not by misting water into the air.

I do mist sometimes, but it's mainly drinking water for those without bowls, and when I'm growing moss in the tank. Wetting the soil through misting takes forever.



LurkingUnderground said:


> Because my cages sit at room temperature. Or in a room at currently 20-21°c I don't need heating lamps or anything for my Ts


My room is kept at those temperatures and I have tropical springtails. That species (_Folsomia candida_) actually has a very wide range. The ones sold as giant white are usually going to be _Folsomia candida_ regardless of whether they're labelled as tropical or temperate. I'd assume when people sell separate cultures, they're saying the springtails came from populations in those climate areas, but it doesn't mean that population can only survive in that climate.

Also, they live in the soil, which is going to be low twenties in most tropical forests. It's a much cooler microclimate than the overall climate of the area. So even if you go for a different species, your temperatures should cover both tropical and temperate with no issues. The same goes for most woodlice. Some like it warmer, but most will be happy at 20-21C. They're down in the soil, not up on the treetops in the sunshine.

Reactions: Like 1


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## LurkingUnderground (Jan 12, 2019)

Polenth said:


> Pouring water on the substrate doesn't harm the fungi or the soil at all. It's more effective than misting. It doesn't really matter if it's a tarantula or a woodlouse... the microclimate is created from controlling soil moisture and ventilation as appropriate for the species, not by misting water into the air.
> 
> I do mist sometimes, but it's mainly drinking water for those without bowls, and when I'm growing moss in the tank. Wetting the soil through misting takes forever.
> 
> ...


Thanks. And yeah I pour it in wait a bit if it needs more I add more. Something the water just sits on top of the soil.


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## LurkingUnderground (Jan 12, 2019)

LurkingUnderground said:


> Thanks. And yeah I pour it in wait a bit if it needs more I add more. Something the water just sits on top of the soil.


oh and not because I am worried the T might drown. more like annoy it?


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