# Urgent: Pinning a Black Widow and Abdomen deflation.



## KennyBoy88 (Dec 25, 2018)

I'm Pinning a Recently caught Black Widow (L. Hesperus) and I'm worried about its abdomen deflating.
I have seen the procedure to prevent it in a _larger_ specimen, but this Black Widow is smaller than most I've seen.
What steps can I take (If any) to prevent this?


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## AphonopelmaTX (Dec 25, 2018)

There are no steps you can take to avoid the abdomen deflation.  Spiders have a thinner exocuticle than insects, especially the abdominal cuticle, which means the abdomen will dehydrate a shrivel up.  The best method for preserving small spiders for display is to keep them in a vial of hand sanitizer to give the appearance they are floating.  There are plenty of tutorials out there on how to accomplish this.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Informative 2


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## BepopCola (Dec 26, 2018)

I was told to inject the abdomens with a polymer or resin type substance. I haven't tried this yet though. It might be difficult when using a small gauge needle for a small bodied spider, but who knows.
I wanted to try injecting a tacky glue as well. 
I have a freezer full of spiders but nothing else.


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## KennyBoy88 (Dec 27, 2018)

BepopCola said:


> I was told to inject the abdomens with a polymer or resin type substance. I haven't tried this yet though. It might be difficult when using a small gauge needle for a small bodied spider, but who knows.
> I wanted to try injecting a tacky glue as well.
> I have a freezer full of spiders but nothing else.


That sounds interesting, I may try it.
If It works I'll get back to you.


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## Greasylake (Dec 27, 2018)

I have an L. mactans in acetone and the abdomen is still just as plump as when I put it in. The colors have bleached a little but you can definitely tell what was black and what was red. 

Any arachnid with a soft abdomen have some of the deflation. Mantis will get it too and to an extent some butterflies and moths will as well.


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## AphonopelmaTX (Dec 27, 2018)

Greasylake said:


> I have an L. mactans in acetone and the abdomen is still just as plump as when I put it in. The colors have bleached a little but you can definitely tell what was black and what was red.
> 
> Any arachnid with a soft abdomen have some of the deflation. Mantis will get it too and to an extent some butterflies and moths will as well.


Out of curiosity, how long have you had a widow spider in acetone?  Acetone is a powerful solvent and I would think it would eventually dissolve the spider at some point.


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## Greasylake (Dec 27, 2018)

AphonopelmaTX said:


> Out of curiosity, how long have you had a widow spider in acetone


I don't remember exactly, probably around 6 months or more. I haven't noticed my spider dissolving yet but I'll watch out for it. Hmm, maybe I can sell it as a new drink. "Spider wine"

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Widowman10 (Jan 15, 2019)

a couple of thoughts to add:

1) I kept several small vials in the freezer with adult female Latros in them. Granted it was in the freezer, but everything was preserved perfectly - abdomen, color, etc. It was interesting to take them out (briefly!) every once in awhile to refresh my memory. 
2) Have you considered resin casting? I'm thinking if you could manage the heat well enough to not discolor things, that may be something to keep in mind. It would be similar to the vial of alcohol (the "correct" method of preservation), but you could keep the color even better. And not have to deal with the liquid haha


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## The Snark (Jan 15, 2019)

Acetone may not be a problem. It gets the job done displacing oxygen and thus preventing certain organism growth. It is produced naturally by the body. There is also a several path lab tests that have tissue samples immersed in acetone. Sectioning sometimes utilizes acetone baths.
HAZARD: There is also a UV test to determine the degradation of tissue samples by a photospectometric process. Acetone fluoresces under UV light. BUT please be aware, do not go experimenting with UV if you are not fully familiar with it's hazards and have safeguards in place. Occasionally home hobbyists and even  bio-science students have used the fluorescent properties as a weird and interesting light source, frying their eyeballs in the process.


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## AphonopelmaTX (Jan 16, 2019)

The Snark said:


> Acetone may not be a problem. It gets the job done displacing oxygen and thus preventing certain organism growth. It is produced naturally by the body. There is also a several path lab tests that have tissue samples immersed in acetone. Sectioning sometimes utilizes acetone baths.
> HAZARD: There is also a UV test to determine the degradation of tissue samples by a photospectometric process. Acetone fluoresces under UV light. BUT please be aware, do not go experimenting with UV if you are not fully familiar with it's hazards and have safeguards in place. Occasionally home hobbyists and even  bio-science students have used the fluorescent properties as a weird and interesting light source, frying their eyeballs in the process.


The whole point of fluid preservation with ethanol in arachnology is to maintain flexibility in the joints while preserving as much as the tissue as possible.  Unless the researcher is conducting studies of internal anatomy, bacterial growth or decay isn't too much of a concern.  If, however, the object of a study involves the study of internal anatomy, ethanol has to be injected into the subject shortly after death.

Ethanol works best as a preservative since it replaces the water in the tissue without causing the limbs to become brittle.  Acetone is one of several denaturing agents in drug store ethyl alcohol and I can say from experience that long term storage in it causes specimens to become brittle and the legs are difficult to extend. That in addition to color loss makes it a poor choice.  I can't say for sure if it was the acetone or something else causing the stiffness though.  Either way it isn't good when you need to dissect and examine something under a microscope.  I haven't any clue as to why a pathologist would immerse tissue in acetone unless it is used to dissolve some parts while leaving other parts for examination.  Maybe you can elaborate more on the point of acetone for that purpose.  I would be interested to know what purpose a type of paint thinner has in pathology.

For the casual arachnid fan who wants to make a decoration out of a dead spider, unfortunately there just isn't a good way to do so since there isn't any chemical or method of preservation that keeps the colors as vivid as they are in life. The holy grail of arachnology would be to find a method of preservation that prevents decay while keeping the colors.  No one yet has been able to solve that problem!

Reactions: Informative 1


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## SamanthaMarikian (Jan 16, 2019)

BepopCola said:


> I was told to inject the abdomens with a polymer or resin type substance. I haven't tried this yet though. It might be difficult when using a small gauge needle for a small bodied spider, but who knows.
> I wanted to try injecting a tacky glue as well.
> I have a freezer full of spiders but nothing else.


i wouldnt do tacky glue, it shrinks as it dries, as do some resins so read wether or not theyre meant to be used for covering or sealing vs used to fill a decorative vase with fake flowers. i made that mistake and eventually the resin shrank and ruined some craft projects of mine a few months aftet it dried

Reactions: Helpful 1


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## Greasylake (Jan 16, 2019)

SamanthaMarikian said:


> it shrinks as it dries, as do some resins


I've heard of people using epoxy resins but I've never done it myself so I don't know if it would work or not. I do know that the fumes are very strong so if anyone does try it make sure you do it outside or in a well ventilated room.


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## The Snark (Jan 16, 2019)

AphonopelmaTX said:


> Maybe you can elaborate more on the point of acetone for that purpose. I would be interested to know what purpose a type of paint thinner has in pathology.


This paper also gives a good comparison to alcohol.
https://archive.org/stream/cu31924000297691/cu31924000297691_djvu.txt


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## SamanthaMarikian (Jan 16, 2019)

Greasylake said:


> I've heard of people using epoxy resins but I've never done it myself so I don't know if it would work or not. I do know that the fumes are very strong so if anyone does try it make sure you do it outside or in a well ventilated room.


Also when you mix the two parts of the resin, they can get kinda hot or sometimes just warm due to a chemical reaction so you wanna make sure it doesn’t ruin the spider or whatever you’re using it on.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## The Snark (Jan 17, 2019)

@AphonopelmaTX Good call on the acetone. Turns out there are numerous grades of the stuff with commercial acetone commonly available to the public well down in the technical grade level. That crap could contain all sorts of impurities and additives: *"Not pure enough to be offered for food, drug, or medicinal use of any kind"
*
Lab grade acetone: https://www.sigmaaldrich.com/chemistry/solvents/products.html?TablePage=17292082

Purity scale in descending order: H.P.L.C., A.C.S., Reagent, U.S.P., N.F., Lab, Purified, Technical. Pathology labs usually use A.C.S. at 99.5% purity. Technical grade can be as high as 95% but as low as 70% and containing unfiltered water.


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