# P. Metallica: whats the big rush



## US Arachnids (Jul 16, 2009)

P. metallicas are hot right now. Running anywhere from $165 to $500 If not more. I would never pay that much lol. Why not wait until there are plenty of them out there any pick some up for wayyy Cheeper  
Eventually The price of P. Metallicas will go way down. Look at how much the G. pulchras were going for. Quite alot awhile back that I saw. Now you can buy G. pulchra slings at $30 bucks a pop.:?  Same deal with the P. Metallica.
Sacs are being produced, Slings are growing up -maturing/breeding. I would say a few years from now P. Metallicas will be all over and wont be so expensive.. So whats the big rush to put out 500 for a T lol, I could see 300, or even 500 if it was a once in a life time deal but there gonna be all over so I dont see the big rush to put out so much money when the prices are eventually gonna go way down.
Its only true  but dont get me wrong, P. Metallicas are Sweeet Spiders and always will be;P

Ex; Kelly from SwiftInverts.com has P. Mirandas for 3/4" <edit>. I just picked up a 3.5" Female <edit>. (will post pics another day) but I mean come on guys lol.
I know the feeling, When there is a T you gotta have, You gotta have it an you gotta have it Now!!! Your not gonna stop thinkin about it until you get the spider your dieing for LOL So would you guys think that maybe thats the case or whats your guys input


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## seanbond (Jul 16, 2009)

its another metallica thread...............


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## JC (Jul 17, 2009)

I don't think you understand. I *N-E-E-D* them. :drool: :drool: :drool:


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## burmish101 (Jul 17, 2009)

3.5in. P. miranda female <edit>? Sounds like a steal to me. There will always be supply and demand, and P. metallica will always be in demand. IMO the prices wont drop anytime soon so grab yours while you can.


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## billopelma (Jul 17, 2009)

people were saying the same thing four years ago, don't hold your breath...




Bill


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## Rick McJimsey (Jul 17, 2009)

arachneman said:


> I don't think you understand. I *N-E-E-D* them. :drool: :drool: :drool:


No you don't.


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## JC (Jul 17, 2009)

Rick McJimsey said:


> No you don't.


Brother, you have no idea.


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## blix (Jul 17, 2009)

Overhyped sp. - there are tons of other beautiful spiders that are as equally good-looking and even better looking.


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## Sathane (Jul 17, 2009)

People will always want the hot item on the market before everyone else.  This is a fact.  This is exactly why literally thousands of people camp out at Apple stores all over the world to snag the latest iPhone.  A poll was conducted a few years ago.  The question was:  Would you rather make $500,000 a year while everyone else made $1,000,000 a year.  Or would you rather make $50,000 a year while everyone else made $25,000 a year?  Over 95% of respondants chose the latter.  It's all about status.

Aside from bragging rights and having a kickass T in your collection, many breeders want to get ahold of this in order to breed them and get in on the action while prices are high.

I keep seeing people saying how these Ts will bottom out in pricing but I just don't see that happening anytime soon and, when it does happen, it certainly won't drop as much as people are hoping.  The facts are that this T still isn't as common as it needs to be to keep up with demand which will always be high for one main reason - their looks.


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## Spyder 1.0 (Jul 17, 2009)

I hope they never go cheap. Keeps the hobby breeders happy


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## Sathane (Jul 17, 2009)

They are an incredible looking animal though.  In my opinion, the only species that rivals them in looks and is considered affordable is _Chromatopelma cyaneopubescens_. 



blix said:


> Overhyped sp. - there are tons of other beautiful spiders that are as equally good-looking and even better looking.


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## Koh_ (Jul 17, 2009)

spyderowner69 said:


> I hope they never go cheap. Keeps the hobby breeders happy


same here, i really hope  prices for p.metallicas never go down..
imagine p.metallicas are very common  like p.regalis..i don't like that!!!

btw, where did you get the 3.5" proven female p.miranda <edit> from?
i would like to know who the previous owner is.. that's steal!!


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## zwd22 (Jul 17, 2009)

Well think of it this way, why do people have to get the newest electronics, be it a computer, ipod, or cellphone, when in a few years they will become soo much cheaper.  Although the thing about electronics is that they usually have newer better models.  But my point is, if it's cheap, everyone will have it, and if everyone have it u don't feel special that you have it anymore.  It's like what carlos(sathane) said, it's about status.


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## WRXspecR1 (Jul 17, 2009)

The price for P. metallica sling has already drop in the last 2 years but that doesn't mean it will continue that way. There's a lot of species that are in the hobby since many years and the price is still high.


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## Endagr8 (Jul 17, 2009)

zwd22 said:


> Well think of it this way, why do people have to get the newest electronics, be it a computer, ipod, or cellphone, when in a few years they will become soo much cheaper.  Although the thing about electronics is that they usually have newer better models.  But my point is, if it's cheap, everyone will have it, and if everyone have it u don't feel special that you have it anymore.  It's like what carlos(sathane) said, it's about status.


ARACHNIDS *ARE NOT* STATUS SYMBOLS (at least they shouldn't be IMO).


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## Sathane (Jul 17, 2009)

But they are.  Actually, nearly everything is considered an indication of societal status.  From the car you drive, to the clothes you wear - even the food you eat and places you frequent.  It's all a form of showing off your status to others.  

Personally, I don't see it like this.  I genuinely think my Ts are better off in diamond encrusted tanks with gold water dishes - but that's just me. 



Endagr8 said:


> ARACHNIDS *ARE NOT* STATUS SYMBOLS (at least they shouldn't be IMO).


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## MaThEwMoNsTr323 (Jul 17, 2009)

Sathane said:


> But they are.  Actually, nearly everything is considered an indication of societal status.  From the car you drive, to the clothes you wear - even the food you eat and places you frequent.  It's all a form of showing off your status to others.
> 
> Personally, I don't see it like this.  I genuinely think my Ts are better off in diamond encrusted tanks with gold water dishes - but that's just me.


i couldn't agree more, that's why i have a couple! ;P


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## JC (Jul 17, 2009)

MaThEwMoNsTr323 said:


> i couldn't agree more, that's why i have a couple! ;P


A couple?! AHHH! I WANT ONLY "1" .I hate you.....:wall:


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## Sathane (Jul 17, 2009)

I'd give you one of my 6 but.... Oh wait.  No I wouldn't.  



arachneman said:


> A couple?! AHHH! I WANT ONLY "1" .I hate you.....:wall:


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## JC (Jul 17, 2009)

Sathane said:


> I'd give you one of my 6 but.... Oh wait.  No I wouldn't.


LOL! And I hate you, sir, most of all. LOL!


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## bliss (Jul 17, 2009)

To the Original Poster... 

The reason G pulchra's go down in price is because there have been a couple eggsacs within the last year.  Grammostola lay more eggs than Poecilotheria, so when G pulchra was successfully bred, there were many to go around.  When P metallica is bred successfully, there's never enough to go around lol
Plus, P metallica is by far -not- the easiest species to breed..



arachneman said:


> Brother, you have no idea.


Ricky is right.  no one _needs_ any tarantula...;P 


Sathane, i agree with you GBB is very nice and its color could rival P metallica's..  but let's not forget about other nice 'affordable'  t's.. like A. fasciculata, P subfusca, and L. violaceps.   If you don't feel like handing out all that money for a P metallica, you could always buy a L. violaceps.  I'd say they rival P metallica pretty well, if you are looking to buy a nice blue tarantula for way less.


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## JC (Jul 17, 2009)

bliss said:


> To the Original Poster...
> 
> Ricky is right.  no one _needs_ any tarantula...;P


lies.......


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## Sathane (Jul 17, 2009)

Agreed.  There are many flavours of 'T crack' to satiate any hunger. 



bliss said:


> Sathane, i agree with you GBB is very nice and its color could rival P metallica's..  but let's not forget about other nice 'affordable'  t's.. like A. fasciculata, P subfusca, and L. violaceps.   If you don't feel like handing out all that money for a P metallica, you could always buy a L. violaceps.  I'd say they rival P metallica pretty well, if you are looking to buy a nice blue tarantula for way less.


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## JC (Jul 17, 2009)

Sathane said:


> Agreed.  There are many flavours of 'T crack' to satiate any hunger.


T crack huh? I think its past your bed time...


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## roncruiser (Jul 17, 2009)

arachneman said:


> I don't think you understand. I *N-E-E-D* them. :drool: :drool: :drool:


No you don't.  Nothing to drool over.  Sweet T, but the price is outrageous.


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## syndicate (Jul 17, 2009)

billopelma said:


> people were saying the same thing four years ago, don't hold your breath...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Agreed 100%
There not so cheap in Europe either!Maybe one day when a lot more people begin having luck producing this species you will see them much cheaper.


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## pato_chacoana (Jul 17, 2009)

G. pulchra is not easy to breed at all. Many WC gravid females and slings were imported to Europe and US at the same time, so the price went down. But it's not like they are _breeding_ them a lot suddenly.

P. metallica will always stay high, unless massive imports of WC are made, like it did with L. violaceopes. Even if this happens, it will not go down a lot....
This happens with most of the hard to breed and most wanted species.... they are pricey until thousands of WC are imported, then the price goes down, and when wild spiders can't be found no more or the country prohibits exports (and they fairly apply the laws hehe) the price goes up again.....

I think it's important for every serious tarantula keeper to make efforts to breed. The harder species to breed and rare and also the others, to lower WC imports. Well, that's just my thought, but I'm in the other side of the world anyway...

Best regards,
Pato


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## JC (Jul 17, 2009)

pato_chacoana said:


> P. metallica will always stay high, unless massive imports of WC are made, like it did with L. violaceopes.


I don't see that happening anytime soon.


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## TiberiuSahly (Jul 17, 2009)

There will be no massive imports of WC Poecilotheria metallica because (according to IUCN Red List 2008): The species is found in a single location, which is severely fragmented. The extent of occurrence is less than 100 km2. It has been recorded to date from a single location (despite surveys conducted in adjacent areas by the Andhra Pradesh Forest Department ERM Laboratory in Srisailam), it is likely that the species has a very restricted extent of occurrence, is very rare and in a single location with declining habitat quality.
An additional threat to the species is collection by international pet traders, which could have an impact on the population. The two threats in tandem could result in the species’ extinction from the known location in the near future. An incident of smuggling was recorded in 2002 when two Europeans took a few specimens out of the country and advertised them for sale on the internet. There are also reports available of other such incidents since then.
It is not known whether the species occurs in the Gundla Brahmeshwaram Wildlife Sanctuary, which is about 20 km from the known location.

And another species to come close to the beauty of Poecilotheria metallica is Lampropelma violaceopes, at least from my point of view.


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## Franklin (Jul 17, 2009)

Sathane said:


> A poll was conducted a few years ago.  The question was:  Would you rather make $500,000 a year while everyone else made $1,000,000 a year.  Or would you rather make $50,000 a year while everyone else made $25,000 a year?  Over 95% of respondants chose the latter.  It's all about status.


that makes no sense.

if everyone made 1,000,000 while you made half everything would inflate SOOO MUCH, its only common sense to pick the lesser!


Im not a OW fan, ill stick to my pampho's


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## pato_chacoana (Jul 17, 2009)

arachneman said:


> I don't see that happening anytime soon.


Exactly. So it will stay high for a long time.


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## Sukai94 (Jul 17, 2009)

Franklin said:


> that makes no sense.
> if everyone made 1,000,000 while you made half everything would inflate SOOO MUCH, its only common sense to pick the lesser!


I thought the same thing. Thanks for saying something about it.

...and please no more P. Metallica threads. 

There are many that are trying to breed them. Some are successful, most are not. The more of us that are successful the more will be available, the more that are available the more breeders will have to compete. Thus, the price will go down. This will take many, many years. Bottom line is if you want one you are going to have to shell out for one. We are not going to wake up tomorrow, next month or next year to a $20 P. Metallica. It would be nice to be able to afford every T but economics applies to inverts as well. 

Good luck!

-Jamie


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## dukegarda (Jul 17, 2009)

I understand the pricing. And am all for it.


Why pay 500 bucks for a female? Cause it's an investment, like anything in life. You either make proper, good investments ( a house), or a poor one, (a car).

A P. metalica female (good one), because you can breed it (if you know how), if not ( you can learn), and you get 100 eggs... 80% survive (scenario) so you have 80.... 80x $165= 13,200

So.... you just made...  $12,700 doesn't sound so bad too me.


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## robc (Jul 17, 2009)

spyderowner69 said:


> I hope they never go cheap. Keeps the hobby breeders happy


I hate to say it...I am a breeder, but i want everyone to be able to enjoy them. Mot everyone can afoord that kind of $$ for a T.


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## robc (Jul 17, 2009)

Sukai94 said:


> Bottom line is if you want one you are going to have to shell out for one. -Jamie


Or just be good friends with you J/K


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## Anastasia (Jul 17, 2009)

robc said:


> I hate to say it...I am a breeder


I hate to say that too ;P


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## robc (Jul 17, 2009)

Anastasia said:


> I hate to say that too ;P


That was good Ana!! LOL


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## violentblossom (Jul 17, 2009)

Well, I'd like one one day, but no time soon. As long as they don't all die in the next few years, I can certainly wait.


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## roncruiser (Jul 17, 2009)

If the price for P. Metallica slings can get down below $75 each in 2-3 years, I'd say that's a major accomplishment.

.75" - 1" Avicularia Fasciculata slings are going for <$75.  Avicularia Fasciculata's are just as nice or nicer looking than P. Metallica's.


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## MizM (Jul 17, 2009)

I paid over $200 for a 1/2" P. Met sling, and would do it again. She was worth every penny!


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## Rick McJimsey (Jul 17, 2009)

robc said:


> I hate to say it...I am a breeder, but i want everyone to be able to enjoy them. Mot everyone can afoord that kind of $$ for a T.


If you got a sac, how much would they be?


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## Exo (Jul 17, 2009)

Koh_ said:


> same here, i really hope  prices for p.metallicas never go down..
> imagine p.metallicas are very common  like p.regalis..i don't like that!!!




Must be nice to have enough money to be able to say that.


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## JC (Jul 17, 2009)

MizM said:


> I paid over $200 for a 1/2" P. Met sling, and would do it again. She was worth every penny!


You tell'em!


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## JC (Jul 17, 2009)

Rick McJimsey said:


> If you got a sac, how much would they be?


That, my friend, is the question. I have been counting down the days robc produces his first p.metallica sack. Go Rob!!!


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## pandinus (Jul 17, 2009)

if people really want the cost down so much then someone needs to be willing to give up their share of profit and sell a spider they could easily sell for 165 apiece for maybe 30-50 apiece. if you want low prices then it has to start somewhere, it doesnt just happen on its own very quickly, its all about competition and what people will pay. if all of the sudden theres a guy selling them super cheap and consistently doing so, then nobody will buy ones priced so high, and they will have to be sold for a lower price. right now  people will pay top dollar, so why shouldnt breeders ask for top dollar? if its worth that much then theres no reason not to charge that much but if something changes and all of the sudden people dont think theyre worth as much, then the price will change. many people will lose interest in this spider if it gets to the point where it is common, because many people find it so appealing because its rare and expensive.




John


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## Exo (Jul 17, 2009)

It's sad that all people care about is the rarity of the T.  

The only reason I will buy a T is because of its looks. P.metalica is beautiful, but not worth the price. I am not rich, and a GBB is plenty beautiful enough for me.


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## robc (Jul 17, 2009)

Rick McJimsey said:


> If you got a sac, how much would they be?


First sac i am splitting....I will get breeding stock from that sac so I will have to cover exspenses...so about 110+..after that 90.00...then probaly go even lower....



arachneman said:


> That, my friend, is the question. I have been counting down the days robc produces his first p.metallica sack. Go Rob!!!


Hopefully won't be to long...waiting on the male to mature!!


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## Paramite (Jul 17, 2009)

syndicate said:


> Agreed 100%
> There not so cheap in Europe either!Maybe one day when a lot more people begin having luck producing this species you will see them much cheaper.


They are actually more expensive now than last summer here... Even M. balfouri is cheaper. So really, don't expect to get them cheap anytime soon.

Edit: Oh, I just bought a female...


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## JC (Jul 17, 2009)

I agree with EXO. I could care less how many people have/don't have this T, I think its one of the coolest ever even if the worth $1. But I don't think all of this rarity/price "issue" is really something negative. This T is scare and not the best breeder(hear their egg counts are low). If anything it's high price will motivate inverters/breeders to produce as many of these gems as possible, at a competitive value. All it really needs is some time...


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## Paramite (Jul 17, 2009)

pandinus said:


> if people really want the cost down so much then someone needs to be willing to give up their share of profit and sell a spider they could easily sell for 165 apiece for maybe 30-50 apiece. if you want low prices then it has to start somewhere, it doesnt just happen on its own very quickly, its all about competition and what people will pay. if all of the sudden theres a guy selling them super cheap and consistently doing so, then nobody will buy ones priced so high, and they will have to be sold for a lower price. right now  people will pay top dollar, so why shouldnt breeders ask for top dollar? if its worth that much then theres no reason not to charge that much but if something changes and all of the sudden people dont think theyre worth as much, then the price will change. many people will lose interest in this spider if it gets to the point where it is common, because many people find it so appealing because its rare and expensive.
> John


Indeed. I've seen Poe. subfusca prices drop in Germany because of just one person.


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## JC (Jul 17, 2009)

Paramite said:


> Indeed. I've seen Poe. subfusca prices drop in Germany because of just one person.


Well bring him here!


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## Paramite (Jul 17, 2009)

Oh, I don't get it how anyone can compare GBB to P. metallica. :? But then again, I'm a Pokie freak. GBB looks just plain ugly to me.

The reason I bought Poe. metallica is simply the fact that it's one of the most beautiful tarantulas I have ever seen. My other favourites are Pokies too..


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## Paramite (Jul 17, 2009)

arachneman said:


> Well bring him here!


I buy all of my Pokies from him, so kidnapping seems too radical to me.


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## JC (Jul 17, 2009)

Paramite said:


> Oh, I don't get it how anyone can compare GBB to P. metallica. :? But then again, I'm a Pokie freak. GBB looks just plain ugly to me.
> 
> The reason I bought Poe. metallica is simply the fact that it's one of the most beautiful tarantulas I have ever seen. My other favourites are Pokies too..


Yeah GBB, IMO, are not comparable to P.metallica either. But to each his own...


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## Paramite (Jul 17, 2009)

Sorry about the multiple posts but I just have to say this as clearly as possible: I really don't get it why people cry about the P. metallica's price. Just take a look at what expensive snakes cost... 

So my point is, it's not much if you really want the animal.


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## pato_chacoana (Jul 17, 2009)

Anastasia said:


> I hate to say that too ;P


hahah  . Indeed, the ''breeder title'' is not so easy to get!   By the way Ana, how ya doing? Long time since I've seen ya posting! the spiders took over your house ?


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## blackcadillac70 (Jul 17, 2009)

everybody is waiting for someone like robc to get a sac. and give them away and ruin the hobby.


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## Zoltan (Jul 17, 2009)

blackcadillac70 said:


> everybody is waiting for someone like robc to get a sac. and give them away and ruin the hobby.


How exactly would that ruin the hobby?


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## robc (Jul 17, 2009)

blackcadillac70 said:


> everybody is waiting for someone like robc to get a sac. and give them away and ruin the hobby.


Getting a Sp into the hooby is bad....I tghink you are bad for the hobby....go somewhere!!


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## blackcadillac70 (Jul 17, 2009)

if you get a sac rob go ahead ands give them away.for 110.00 and ruin it for mettallica.then the little people who get a sac.will be expected to give them away as well.they were at 195.00 then <edit> breed them at 158.00. now there at bout 165.00 breeders wont give them away.


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## Nomadinexile (Jul 17, 2009)

*Supply and Demand*

Hey, just wanted to throw a little economic principle into the conversation.
In a theoretically "free" market, prices don't generally drop forever due to one person selling below market rate.  These will tend to be bought up first, but unless that one person can fill 100% of the demand at said low price, the price will rise again as he runs out.  
What DOES cause price to drop is the good old standby SUPPLY and DEMAND
Very simple stuff, if breeders are unable to sell their babies fast enough at price A, they will, upon the realization that they are overestimating current worth, will drop their prices, to a level, where they will sell fast enough, for them.  
Of coarse, there are many, many variables, like the wildcat breeder who prices where they choose, (thankfully, we don't live somewhere that isn't an option, people starve at higher rates in countries with heavily regulated markets.)  

And I wanted to throw this out, and then I will shut up.  
I don't think to many T breeders are rolling around in ferraris and living the jet set life.  For every one breeding success, there seems to be a failure.  I have looked into breeding arachnids for a living, and really, without a HUGE investment up front, or YEARS AND YEARS of building a large diverse collection, would I actually be able to make it a full time job.  Breeders deserve to make a living as well, and see a  return on their time, money, drive to make it happen.  Also, a lot of breeders breed t's that are worth much smaller amounts and probably don't make much for all the time and effort they put in to feed, raise, aquire, learn, fail, and then finally succeed. 
I know someone personally who sells rare species above market value, which bothered me at first, till I realized that he used the difference, to give people who can't afford the rare ones, the ability to have a diverse cool collection at a reasonable cost.  He offers some cool T's at great prices.  Some are overpriced.  People buy them anyway though.  So are they really overpriced?   The answer is supply and demand.  You want to effect the price, higher or lower, you have to effect the supply and/or demand.  That's all.


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## Noexcuse4you (Jul 17, 2009)

The cheapest I've seen them was from <edit> last year for $145.  About 4 hours later, the ad was edited and the price was jacked up to $165.  :evil: Luckily I was one of the $145 people and both of mine ended up being female .  

Like Nomad said, no one's getting rich off spiders.  Sorry, but a more worthwhile investment would be college.   Buy 20 P. metallica slings at the same time someone starts college and see who has more money after 10 years.  Maybe not the best example, but you get my point.


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## Paramite (Jul 17, 2009)

Oh please. No one is saying you get rich, but when you get a succesful P. metallica or M. balfouri eggsac you will make A LOT of money. The fact that most people can't do it for a living only motivates people to take an advantage of the rare opportunity.


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## Exo (Jul 17, 2009)

blackcadillac70 said:


> everybody is waiting for someone like robc to get a sac. and give them away and ruin the hobby.


The only reason you say that is because people with deep pockets(apparently you) won't feel special anymore because they have a T that others with shallow pockets(me) can't really afford. It would suck if someone leveled the playing field, wouldn't it.


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## Paramite (Jul 17, 2009)

blackcadillac70 said:


> everybody is waiting for someone like robc to get a sac. and give them away and ruin the hobby.


LOL! Somehow I missed this. 

Seriously, <edit> start collecting stamps or something. You'll get more reputation/status, because it's a bigger hobby. Isn't that what you're after?


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## Noexcuse4you (Jul 17, 2009)

Also keep in mind that not everyone makes their sacs available for sale.  I know quite a few people who have had metallica and other high end sacs in the past and just kept all the slings.  I'd definitely keep all or most of them if I ever got a metallica sac.


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## Tunedbeat (Jul 17, 2009)

Paramite said:


> Oh please. No one is saying you get rich, but when you get a succesful P. metallica or M. balfouri eggsac you will make A LOT of money. The fact that most people can't do it for a living only motivates people to take an advantage of the rare opportunity.


Alot of money sure....

But, all that goes back into the hobby.


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## JC (Jul 17, 2009)

If anyone cares, they are selling for $150 at the boards right now.


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## robc (Jul 17, 2009)

blackcadillac70 said:


> if you get a sac rob go ahead ands give them away.for 110.00 and ruin it for mettallica.then the little people who get a sac.will be expected to give them away as well.they were at 195.00 then <edit> breed them at 158.00. now there at bout 165.00 breeders wont give them away.


You must just me into breeding for the $$$$ not the hobby....your choice I guess, not a good one but still your choice


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## Krazy Kat (Jul 17, 2009)

I wish I could get a breeding pair and a good sack.I'd sale them for $75.00;P


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## JC (Jul 17, 2009)

blackcadillac70 said:


> if you get a sac rob go ahead ands give them away.for 110.00 and ruin it for mettallica.then the little people who get a sac.will be expected to give them away as well.they were at 195.00 then <edit> breed them at 158.00. now there at bout 165.00 breeders wont give them away.


Thats dumb and very selfish.


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## Skullptor (Jul 17, 2009)

At what price would someone in it for the hobby sell them for?
And, what price would someone in it for the money sell them for?

Just curious...that's all.


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## Exo (Jul 17, 2009)

Skullptor said:


> At what price would someone in it for the hobby sell them for?
> And, what price would someone in it for the money sell them for?
> 
> Just curious...that's all.



Bad time to ask that question, come back after the torches and pitchforks have been put away.


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## JC (Jul 17, 2009)

Skullptor said:


> At what price would someone in it for the hobby sell them for?
> And, what price would someone in it for the money sell them for?
> 
> Just curious...that's all.


I think a regular person with a regular income would start selling his/her first slings at $100-$130. Then with a larger breeding group start reducing prices after the first 2-3 sacks $10 less each time. Hopefully, with more good hearted people doing the same, we get them to good prices in 3-4 years. I would personally be satisfied with a $50-$60 sling price tag.


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## Noexcuse4you (Jul 17, 2009)

blackcadillac70 said:


> if you get a sac rob go ahead ands give them away.for 110.00 and ruin it for mettallica.then the little people who get a sac.will be expected to give them away as well.they were at 195.00 then <edit> breed them at 158.00. now there at bout 165.00 breeders wont give them away.


If you think $110 is too little, buy them all and sell them for higher!


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## Venari (Jul 17, 2009)

dukegarda said:


> So.... you just made...  $12,700 doesn't sound so bad too me.


And because we're all law abiding citizens, you give Uncle Sam his cut.  Or Steven Harper. Depends where you live; America's hat, or Canada's underpants.


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## JC (Jul 17, 2009)

Venari said:


> And because we're all law abiding citizens, you give Uncle Sam his cut.


SIIIIIIKKKKEEEEE.


----------



## blackcadillac70 (Jul 17, 2009)

no wonder all the great breeders don't get on these boards anymore.


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## Exo (Jul 17, 2009)

blackcadillac70 said:


> no wonder all the great breeders don't get on these boards anymore.


Like you know any.


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## Rick McJimsey (Jul 17, 2009)

blackcadillac70 said:


> no wonder all the great breeders don't get on these boards anymore.


Yeah, I honestly don't blame them one bit.


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## Exo (Jul 17, 2009)

Rick McJimsey said:


> Yeah, I honestly don't blame them one bit.


''Who'' are all these great breeders you refer to?


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## JC (Jul 17, 2009)

Rick McJimsey said:


> Yeah, I honestly don't blame them one bit.


?  

You agree with keeping a hobby as stagnant as possible for the the benefit of breeders who are only interested in making profit?  :?


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## Nomadinexile (Jul 17, 2009)

What's been said here that makes you feel like that?  I don't see anything that should cause anyone to run off.  Some joking sure, but you just said one person, who is very well liked btw, is going to ruin the hobby, with one eggsack at $110 I believe!  hehe, you have to admit that is pretty funny!



blackcadillac70 said:


> no wonder all the great breeders don't get on these boards anymore.


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## Exo (Jul 17, 2009)

Notice how they didn't reply to my question. ;P


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## robc (Jul 17, 2009)

Skullptor said:


> At what price would someone in it for the hobby sell them for?
> And, what price would someone in it for the money sell them for?
> 
> Just curious...that's all.


For the money $200.00+ or for the hobby $90-120.00....not saying everyone that sells them high are in it for the money, but when somone gets mad that someone else wants to sell them cheaper and is mad they will have to match it...that is greed IMHO!


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## robc (Jul 17, 2009)

Noexcuse4you said:


> If you think $110 is too little, buy them all and sell them for higher!


LOL!!!!!!!:clap:


----------



## Nomadinexile (Jul 17, 2009)

hey robc, love the vids, keep em up!  I do disagree with you on the below point though.  I feel like pressuring prices outside of the free market, (example: saying someone is bad for the hobby because they lower the price of a product), is insidious in nature.  I think greed may or may not be the motive, but it's manipulation outside of supply and demand that bothers me.  

And trust me, I am not a walking billboard for capitalism and see many, many inherent (and otherwise) flaws in it.  But I am not trading it in for a top down price fixing scheme thought up and enforced by a cabal of insiders!
Thanks for everything you do.  And don't worry about people getting upset, for every one of them, there are many who feel otherwise.  
Peace, Ryan




robc said:


> For the money $200.00+ or for the hobby $90-120.00....not saying everyone that sells them high are in it for the money, but when somone gets mad that someone else wants to sell them cheaper and is mad they will have to match it...that is greed IMHO!


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## Anastasia (Jul 17, 2009)

pato_chacoana said:


> hahah  . Indeed, the ''breeder title'' is not so easy to get!   By the way Ana, how ya doing? Long time since I've seen ya posting! the spiders took over your house ?


so many things so little time, Am going back to school 
less time for spiders, they are free ranch now, earn keeping hunting flyes, dogs that take a crap on my loan and neighbors who owns them dogs
Ah, who Am I kiddin, still running dating service for big hairy and and ugly behaved ladies, aint easy ya know


----------



## Sathane (Jul 18, 2009)

Everybody?  Certainly not I. I've got my own girl to mate. 

It would take much more than one sac to quench the thirst for this gem. Scroll up and read the excellent explanation of supply and demand. No one is going to 'give them away'. 
Sellers will price their specimens for whatever price they can set that will move the spiders in a reasonable time. 

Sure, it would be nice to get a cheap _P. metallica_, but no one is going to sell a $150 T for $30 when they could easily move it for $135 or so.  Who here would give up 80% of their paycheck deliberately? 



blackcadillac70 said:


> everybody is waiting for someone like robc to get a sac. and give them away and ruin the hobby.


----------



## Koh_ (Jul 18, 2009)

Sathane said:


> Everybody?  Certainly not I. I've got my own girl to mate.
> 
> it would take much more than one sac to quench the thirst for this gem.


hey carlos
so if you get a sac and then babies from your female, how much are you willing to let each one go for? :?


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## JC (Jul 18, 2009)

Koh_ said:


> hey carlos
> so if you get a sac and then babies from your female, how much are you willing to let each one go for? :?


Hes a good guy. You probably just have to pay for the shipping, right?


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## Koh_ (Jul 18, 2009)

arachneman said:


> Hes a good guy. You probably just have to pay for the shipping, right?


yes he is. he is awesome guy  i trust most in Canadian forum.  
im just wondering how much he thinks for.


----------



## Sathane (Jul 18, 2009)

I recall a thread a while back where one member stated that the worst thing for this hobby is hobbyists breeding their Ts since it destroys the market.  Now, that is someone who is greedy and just in it for the money.  There's much more to it than the price you set on your Ts.  It's more the mentality and attitude used while conducting business.  Those who are genuinely working to progress the hobby tend to show a greater interest in what they are doing.

Dealers getting upset over other dealers selling for lower are just acting foolish and are lacking in business common sense.  Eventually the cheap specimens are all gone and those spiders that haven't been sold because they were more expensive have been gettig bigger - and more valuable.   



robc said:


> For the money $200.00+ or for the hobby $90-120.00....not saying everyone that sells them high are in it for the money, but when somone gets mad that someone else wants to sell them cheaper and is mad they will have to match it...that is greed IMHO!


----------



## Sathane (Jul 18, 2009)

I tend to look around the boards or dealer pricelists to get a feel of the market value as I honestly don't know the prices of most specimens aside from what I paid for mine. 

That being said, friends would get a significantly reduced rate. 



Koh_ said:


> hey carlos
> so if you get a sac and then babies from your female, how much are you willing to let each one go for? :?


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## JC (Jul 18, 2009)

Sathane said:


> That being said, friends would get a significantly reduced rate.


Thanks alot old buddy, Im looking forward to it  .


----------



## Sathane (Jul 18, 2009)

LOL. Wishful thinking?  I don't ship to the US though. ;P 

I tend to price around or just under what I see on dealer lists with certain exceptions (friends, past customers, etc.). 

I guess it would also depend on how quickly I wanted to get rid of them. A cheaper price would eliminate the need to take care of a ton of slings for a long period of time but, that problem can be mitigated with some generous volume discounts. 



arachneman said:


> Hes a good guy. You probably just have to pay for the shipping, right?


----------



## Sathane (Jul 18, 2009)

Oops. Sorry. I meant *my* friends. 



arachneman said:


> Thanks alot old buddy, Im looking forward to it  .


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## dukegarda (Jul 18, 2009)

Sathane said:


> I tend to look around the boards or dealer pricelists to get a feel of the market value as I honestly don't know the prices of most specimens aside from what I paid for mine.
> 
> That being said, friends would get a significantly reduced rate.



Am I considered a friend yet?!! lol.


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## blooms (Jul 18, 2009)

Just to add fuel to the fire or grist to the mill, do you know what a 2 cm P. Metallica sling costs here in mainland china?  400 US dollars.  The M. Balfouri is almost as much. How's that for expensive?  Then again, a 4-5 inch rosie costs like 20 US dollars here. However, the good news is that H. Hainanum, H. Schmidti and C. Huahini cost about 12 US dollars for 4-5 inch adults and a H. Lividum is about 30 US dollars for a 5-6 inch adult.


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## Sathane (Jul 18, 2009)

I've only met you out here but you're a cool guy.  

Koh and zephed are easily my two best friends out here. We've done several transactions with each other, helped each other when needed,  and worked with each other on some projects.    



dukegarda said:


> Am I considered a friend yet?!! lol.


----------



## Anastasia (Jul 18, 2009)

what is this thread about again :? 
whoz yer friend?, or how many of em come out of woodwork if ya siting on a sac of pretty blue spiderz? 
yeh, Am very sure anyone can trow cheap non existing yet slings around, eh


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## Sathane (Jul 18, 2009)

Specimens are normally cheaper when the dealer can just grab one from their back yard. 



blooms said:


> Just to add fuel to the fire or grist to the mill, do you know what a 2 cm P. Metallica sling costs here in mainland china?  400 US dollars.  The M. Balfouri is almost as much. How's that for expensive?  Then again, a 4-5 inch rosie costs like 20 US dollars here. However, the good news is that H. Hainanum, H. Schmidti and C. Huahini cost about 12 US dollars for 4-5 inch adults and a H. Lividum is about 30 US dollars for a 5-6 inch adult.


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## james (Jul 18, 2009)

*have to ask*

If all your concerned about is money I'm not sure of your point. Even if you buy a sling for $175 it can be a pet or an investment. If your Metallica turns out to be a male then your can loan it out or sell it in the $250 range. So how do you really loose out here? Second, if your lucky and get a female then you can do a happy dance a feel good, or be greedy and sell her for $500+ getting your $175 back plus enough to buy another basically now FREE spider and have some pocket change left. Weather the spider cost $50 or $175 the thought process is still the same. If some of the other spiders I buy where only as cheap as P metallica I would be real happy!!!:} 
James


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## Sathane (Jul 18, 2009)

Well said. 

I have a very expensive T habit but I can justify it for exactly the reasons you've mentioned.  If I'm ever in a serious bind, I could easily sell off any number of my specimens for more than I paid originally (since they've grown).
It's not only a fascinating hobby, it's an investment. 

I remember a thread recently here one member said something to the effect of, "Forget the stock market, buy Ts".



james said:


> If all your concerned about is money I'm not sure of your point. Even if you buy a sling for $175 it can be a pet or an investment. If your Metallica turns out to be a male then your can loan it out or sell it in the $250 range. So how do you really loose out here? Second, if your lucky and get a female then you can do a happy dance a feel good, or be greedy and sell her for $500+ getting your $175 back plus enough to buy another basically now FREE spider and have some pocket change left. Weather the spider cost $50 or $175 the thought process is still the same. If some of the other spiders I buy where only as cheap as P metallica I would be real happy!!!:}
> James


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## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (Jul 18, 2009)

*P. Metallica*

Here's the deal folks, if you're a dealer or not and selling tarantulas dirt cheap you're killing the market plain and simple. Of course everybody want things to be cheaper. I know that I'am having a fit knowing that people are selling B. Vagans so cheap, I dont agree with that cause one thing it's a long live species it's hardy and it's beutiful spider. Yes there's lots of them but so what, dont kill the market just to make a fast buck!!!!! All of you have to remember one thing, people that have tons of tarantulas they know it takes alot of their time, feeding, housing, breeding, boxing them etc....... So why sell so cheap, I do agree that some tarantulas are way over price but who cares if you want the spider bad enough you'll buy it and everybody is happy. So keep getting the economy going and dont worry about the small things in life. Byant Capiz use to say ( Happy ) follow that.



                                     Jose Berrios
hombrearania1@hotmail.com


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## Exo (Jul 18, 2009)

200 dollars is not a small price to pay.

We can see which people have the most money just from their posts, can't we?


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## Paramite (Jul 18, 2009)

jose said:


> Here's the deal folks, if you're a dealer or not and selling tarantulas dirt cheap you're killing the market plain and simple. Of course everybody want things to be cheaper. I know that I'am having a fit knowing that people are selling B. Vagans so cheap, I dont agree with that cause one thing it's a long live species it's hardy and it's beutiful spider. Yes there's lots of them but so what, dont kill the market just to make a fast buck!!!!! All of you have to remember one thing, people that have tons of tarantulas they know it takes alot of their time, feeding, housing, breeding, boxing them etc....... So why sell so cheap, I do agree that some tarantulas are way over price but who cares if you want the spider bad enough you'll buy it and everybody is happy. So keep getting the economy going and dont worry about the small things in life. Byant Capiz use to say ( Happy ) follow that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh. I always thought the animals were more important than the money you make selling them. I couldn't care a less, if a dealer makes less money selling  P. metallica. If the breeding income is that important, they can starve to death for all I care... If they truly cared about the hobby, they would sell them cheaper. And yes, I've seen this before. 

P. metallica is overpriced, plain and simple. I've said this before, but here in Europe they are quite common and they are still probably the most expensive species there is. You can get M. balfouri and other similiar species cheaper. 

Well, I bought a female anyway even when I knew I wasn't helping the situtation...



Exo said:


> 200 dollars is not a small price to pay.
> 
> We can see which people have the most money just from their posts, can't we?


200 dollars is a ridiculously low price to pay for any animal. I suggest you take a look at what expensive snakes cost. 

Edit: But like I said, I think P. metallica is still overpriced.


----------



## JC (Jul 18, 2009)

Exo said:


> 200 dollars is not a small price to pay.
> 
> We can see which people have the most money just from their posts, can't we?


yup , . . .


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## Exo (Jul 18, 2009)

Paramite said:


> 200 dollars is a ridiculously low price to pay for any animal. I suggest you take a look at what expensive snakes cost.
> 
> Edit: But like I said, I think P. metallica is still overpriced.



Yeah, and I think its crazy to pay that much for a snake too. ;P


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## Sathane (Jul 18, 2009)

How is it "killing" the market?
Is everyone going to be selling them at "dirty cheap" prices forever now ghat one person has done so. 
I think people need to reread the posts explaining supply and demand and realize that this is exactly how it's worked for centuries.  If a species is so easy to breed and therefore so abundant that they can be purchased anywhere, they should be very inexpensive.  If it's difficult to breed and is scarce while many people want it, the price will reflect this.   




jose said:


> Here's the deal folks, if you're a dealer or not and selling tarantulas dirt cheap you're killing the market plain and simple. Of course everybody want things to be cheaper. I know that I'am having a fit knowing that people are selling B. Vagans so cheap, I dont agree with that cause one thing it's a long live species it's hardy and it's beutiful spider. Yes there's lots of them but so what, dont kill the market just to make a fast buck!!!!! All of you have to remember one thing, people that have tons of tarantulas they know it takes alot of their time, feeding, housing, breeding, boxing them etc....... So why sell so cheap, I do agree that some tarantulas are way over price but who cares if you want the spider bad enough you'll buy it and everybody is happy. So keep getting the economy going and dont worry about the small things in life. Byant Capiz use to say ( Happy ) follow that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Jeff Godbold (Jul 18, 2009)

I'm not an avid poster on here but I've been following this thread for a while now, mostly because to me, P. metallica is the ultimate "T" and I was curious as to the consensus of it.

But speaking in terms of supply and demand I will add this. It's a cycle...nothing more, nothing less. Plain and simple. It takes more than one person to kill the market for anything, not just tarantulas. If one guy sells them for dirt cheap, that doesn't mean everyone will. You have to remember that the supply and demand is more important than the price. If the demand is still higher than the supply (which it appears to be) after this one person decides to sell below market value, than the market is still going to move upward.

Now if everyone is selling for cheap, then the market starts to plummet because the demand goes down as the supply goes up. But that means everyone has to be in the same boat as far as reasons for selling. Not everyone is going to be hurting for cash or space so that means that the value is still going to hold.

Also lets not forget about reputation. Reputation goes a long way with everything. It takes years to build and seconds to ruin so the guys who have a good rep and have proven to be the "stick around" type of breeders, are generally going to have repeat customers and will therefore be able to charge more because at this point, the customer isn't only paying for the animal, but also the peace of mind that they're buying quality stock, that has proven to be such, and are going to get after sales support. 

All the newbies unfortunately have to put in their time like everyone else. But just because you're  blowing something out the door doesn't mean it will sell. Look at the car industry, they can't even give cars away, no matter what the incentive.

I don't think $300-400 for a tarantula is all that expensive. I keep Green Tree Pythons and Amazon Tree Boas primarily and have only been keeping tarantulas for a few years now but I have snakes in my collection that are worth $1000.00 and up. I even have a few that are worth $4,000.00 to $6,000.00.

It's all in how you look at it. To me, I invest in a "hobby" that will pay for itself and a little extra and there's a lot more to value than a price tag. Supply, Demand and Reputation go into the equation. 

If Rob wants to sell his P.m's for a cheaper price than so be it. They're his to begin with and he can do what he wants. But I'd bet that he could easily sell them for more than what the majority of breeders are selling them for. Why? Because the demand is high, few breeders are producing them, and from what I've seen, Rob has been around a while and genuinely loves the hobby.

I've never bought anything from him but I have watched several of his Youtube videos and I gotta tell ya, the guys enthusiasm about the hobby is hard to match. Like I said, reputation plays a huge role in the pricing process.

I'm not speaking as any type of expert but just applying my understanding of economics and what I've seen in the world of GTP's and ATB's. 

I've also seen that most people that complain about another guys prices are just upset because they either can't afford the item, or are trying to make money. I've seen that the latter mentality usually weeds those types of people out. The passion has to come first, the money follows once the success and reputation meet up.

I'd easily fork out $200-300.00 for a sling.

The easy fix, is work on your own projects and let others do what they want with theirs. And in the mean time, bring new people into the hobby so they can try to "work their way up" to the more expensive species...therefore keeping the demand at an increase.


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## Exo (Jul 18, 2009)

Well, If your rich enough to afford expensive snakes, I guess a 300 dollar spider is nothing, huh?


----------



## roncruiser (Jul 18, 2009)

Breed.  I want a few of them, but not at the current market price.  Get'em below $50/sling.


----------



## Jeff Godbold (Jul 18, 2009)

I'm not rich at all, but I had quality animals and sold what I needed to to take the plunge and work my way up. Being rich doesn't even play into it.


----------



## Sathane (Jul 18, 2009)

Perfectly summed up. 



Jeff Godbold said:


> I'm not an avid poster on here but I've been following this thread for a while now, mostly because to me, P. metallica is the ultimate "T" and I was curious as to the consensus of it.
> 
> But speaking in terms of supply and demand I will add this. It's a cycle...nothing more, nothing less. Plain and simple. It takes more than one person to kill the market for anything, not just tarantulas. If one guy sells them for dirt cheap, that doesn't mean everyone will. You have to remember that the supply and demand is more important than the price. If the demand is still higher than the supply (which it appears to be) after this one person decides to sell below market value, than the market is still going to move upward.
> 
> ...


----------



## Sathane (Jul 18, 2009)

Good luck.  You'll be waiting a long time.



roncruiser said:


> Breed.  I want a few of them, but not at the current market price.  Get'em below $50/sling.


----------



## roncruiser (Jul 18, 2009)

Sathane said:


> Good luck.  You'll be waiting a long time.


I'm not holding my breath for it to happen either.  No skin off my back.

I make a good living but a $200 is ridiculous money to spend on a spider in my opinion.  Esp. for the non-hardcore collector like me.


----------



## evicton (Jul 18, 2009)

I don't see P. Mets ever hitting a price of 50 a sling. There is to much demand for this species. Theres quite a few pokies who also fetch 70-110 dollars a sling and are not as popular as P. Met.

I believe the price will drop some, I've seen them advertised by 4-5 sellers in the past month just on this board, most still have them to this as of today. So I would say the supply is not in that bad of shape. 

I'd also like to add the fact right now M. Balifour's are being advertised at like 150$ a sling while we continue to see the P. Mets up in the 165-190 area so the european market trend is any indication like it seems to be, were not gonna see a huge drop. 

I paid 165 for my sling waiting on another and this is really is one of my favorite T's even without its colors. I see my one inch P. Met sling more in a day then I see my four inch and two inch P. Regalis in a week. Those kind of things also help drive price.


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## Anastasia (Jul 18, 2009)

roncruiser said:


> I'm not holding my breath for it to happen either.  No skin off my back.
> 
> I make a good living but a $200 is ridiculous money to spend on a spider in my opinion.  Esp. for the non-hardcore collector like me.


well then stick with a 'cheap' stuff then  
I dont think $200 is ridiculous price for spider that is worth $200
unless its B Vagans of course


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## Koh_ (Jul 18, 2009)

i spent big money for one of my metallicas before, but i never regret. ever.
i had to sell many of my spiders though before getting her..lol


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## pato_chacoana (Jul 18, 2009)

That's why breeding and trading slings is always best. I don't buy tarantulas since a lot of years....except for particular rare cases of course.
I agree with Ana, if it's too expensive...well don't buy it, or find the way to trade slings or something. Stop whining like a little girl! The prices are what consumers are willing to pay... that's why there are multi-millionaire crazy people who will pay anything to eat a damn whale or hunt the last specimen of  a wild big cat...or whatever. :wall: :wall:  We  Humans are just a <edit> up species  

Elvis has left the building!


----------



## evicton (Jul 18, 2009)

Anastasia said:


> well then stick with a 'cheap' stuff then
> I dont think $200 is ridiculous price for spider that is worth $200
> unless its B Vagans of course


LOL Depends I would pay more for a wc vagans from florida. The few pics I've seen of them show more vibrant colors then ones I've seen in the hobby. Certainly would be a pure vagans atleast.
Maybe not 200 dollars 'more'


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## Exo (Jul 18, 2009)

Jeff Godbold said:


> I'm not rich at all, but I had quality animals and sold what I needed to to take the plunge and work my way up. Being rich doesn't even play into it.



 If someone can pay that much for a bug, then they have plenty of money.
Some people (such as myself) just can't justify spending that much for a T when we have things like insurance to pay for. Spending that much on a spider only seems worth it to those who can afford it.


----------



## Anastasia (Jul 18, 2009)

pato_chacoana said:


> That's why breeding and trading slings is always best. I don't buy tarantulas since a lot of years....except for particular rare cases of course.
> I agree with Ana, if it's too expensive...well don't buy it, or find the way to trade slings or something. Stop whining like a little girl! The prices are what consumers are willing to pay... that's why there are multi-millionaire crazy people who will pay anything to eat a damn whale or hunt the last specimen of  a wild big cat...or whatever. :wall: :wall:  We  Humans are just a <edit> up species
> 
> Elvis has left the building!


hehe, yep, I see human mixed hybrids everywhere


----------



## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (Jul 18, 2009)

*P. Metallica*

First of all I never said the money was more important than the animals. Second of all if the animals are important than no one should have an isue of how expensive or cheap some of the spiders are or snake etc. Third, remember dealers out there have bussines licences to get this tarantulas in this country. People like me that dont have a bussines licence should never complain about the price of the tarantula we're buying. Because dealers out there that have bussines licence that's what they do for a living. So maybe we should ask them how they feel about as selling tarantulas cheaper than them. After all we buy the spiders from them at one point or another. For the dealers in the United States and from the past Like Arachnocentric I apreciate what you have brought to us into this hobby........ I still dont think B. Vagans should be sold that cheap, but that it's my opinion.....


----------



## roncruiser (Jul 18, 2009)

Anastasia said:


> well then stick with a 'cheap' stuff then
> I dont think $200 is ridiculous price for spider that is worth $200
> unless its B Vagans of course


To each his own.  I'm not faulting anyone here.  I just want them to come down in price.  I don't expect that to happen anytime soon.  I can wait 2-3 years for a spider.  In the mean time, some nice T slings to be had for around $50.  I esp. covet the Avicularia Fasciculata.  Just as good or better looking as the P. Metallica... in my opinion. 

Breed!


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## Jeff Godbold (Jul 18, 2009)

Exo,

"Worth" is a matter of opinion. What you deem not worth the money IS worth the money to someone else...so it's kind of a mute argument. 



> If someone can pay that much for a bug, then they have plenty of money.
> Some people (such as myself) just can't justify spending that much for a T when we have things like insurance to pay for.


No they don't have plenty of money, they have money they are willing to sacrifice to put where they want (hopefully responsibly . And In this case, towards a highly blue tarantula that is just starting to be produced annually. You're not the only one with bills my friend. I started out with one snake...I worked a full time job, went to school at night and had just gotten married.

When I bought my first high dollar snake, I put $900 on a credit card. I'm not advising that.......I then sold a few snakes to pay it off. I sold stuff here and there to upgrade when I found something I liked...but it all started with a chance that I was willing to make....because a) I wanted it bad enough b) my wife was supportive (the most important factor  and c) because I knew if I needed to, I could sell a few things to maker it up. All I had to do was breed that animal once and my investment multiplied.

There have been many times I've had to pass on something I couldn't afford or just couldn't "justify" spending the cash on but it doesn't mean it wasn't worth it. It just meant it "wasn't" worth it to me.

If you want it bad enough, your own human nature will compel you to acquire it somehow.


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## Noexcuse4you (Jul 18, 2009)

How to have every tarantula you've ever dreamed of for only $10:

1) Buy a sling that everyone likes. (ie. Avic versicolor)
2) Raise said sling to a breeding age.
3) Breed it.
4) Sell the slings for $10.
5) Use the money to buy higher end slings.
6) Go to step 1.

Merry Christmas.


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## JC (Jul 18, 2009)

Noexcuse4you said:


> How to have every tarantula you've ever dreamed of for only $10:
> 
> 1) Buy a sling that everyone likes. (ie. Avic versicolor)
> 2) Raise said sling to a breeding age.
> ...


Which is exactly what I'm doing!


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## tarantulaholic (Jul 19, 2009)

Simply supply and demand. Only reason the prices of P. Metallicas to drop if people stop buying them at rediculously high prices, especially for sling.:?  
or Simply breeders stop being too greedy and selling them at enormous prices, which wont likely happen unless people stop buying them.
I know they are one of most beautiful T's in hobby, but to pay over $150.00 for sling which has 50/50 chance being a female is plain nuts.


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## Noexcuse4you (Jul 19, 2009)

tarantulaholic said:


> I know they are one of most beautiful T's in hobby, but to pay over $150.00 for sling which has 50/50 chance being a female is plain nuts.


To each his own.  Just look at the crested gecko hobby.  Half of those things look the same to me yet they go for hundreds of dollars.  To me, THAT'S nuts!


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## syndicate (Jul 19, 2009)

Noexcuse4you said:


> To each his own.  Just look at the crested gecko hobby.  Half of those things look the same to me yet they go for hundreds of dollars.  To me, THAT'S nuts!


Oh no you didnt lolz...
Just look at the snake hobby people pay up to 150,000 dollars for a special morph!
I think if metallica does become cheap that is a good thing!Obviously it sucks if you spend a bunch of cash on an animal than the value decreases but if there cheap than everyone can have one and enjoy them!
-Chris


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## robc (Jul 19, 2009)

Jeff Godbold said:


> I'm not an avid poster on here but I've been following this thread for a while now, mostly because to me, P. metallica is the ultimate "T" and I was curious as to the consensus of it.
> 
> But speaking in terms of supply and demand I will add this. It's a cycle...nothing more, nothing less. Plain and simple. It takes more than one person to kill the market for anything, not just tarantulas. If one guy sells them for dirt cheap, that doesn't mean everyone will. You have to remember that the supply and demand is more important than the price. If the demand is still higher than the supply (which it appears to be) after this one person decides to sell below market value, than the market is still going to move upward.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the kind words...it is very much appreciated!! I love this hobby, I truly live for the hobby and the great people in it. I have heard so many tines fron hobbiest...I wish I could have a P. netallica, and I just wanted to breed a few and let the guy/gals who can't afford $200.00 and l;et them have a chance at getting one or at least be easier on there pockets!! I totaly agree withy reputation....I am not bragging in anyway but I have worked very hard to get my rep....not saying I am #1....but I promise that anyone that buys from me will get quality animals and will get what they paid for....NO exceptions!!! I could sell them for more but I rather see a post from someone who gets a cheaper P. metallica and who truly appreciates getting one and how happy they are.

Robv


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## robc (Jul 19, 2009)

syndicate said:


> Oh no you didnt lolz...
> Just look at the snake hobby people pay up to 150,000 dollars for a special morph!
> I think if metallica does become cheap that is a good thing!Obviously it sucks if you spend a bunch of cash on an animal than the value decreases but if there cheap than everyone can have one and enjoy them!
> -Chris


Those are true words from a true hobbiest, much respect Chris :clap: :clap: :clap:


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## Noexcuse4you (Jul 19, 2009)

LOL.  Rob, don't count your chicks before they hatch.    Or in this case, even before the eggs are laid.


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## robc (Jul 19, 2009)

Noexcuse4you said:


> LOL.  Rob, don't count your chicks before they hatch.    Or in this case, even before the eggs are laid.


That is very true LOL...I should have put a IF in there....but the way I see it....if I am positive....I will get positive results LOL


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## Noexcuse4you (Jul 19, 2009)

robc said:


> That is very true LOL...I should have put a IF in there....but the way I see it....if I am positive....I will get positive results LOL


There are many that have chosen the path of the $100 P. metallica sling, young warrior.  The brothers that have come before you have fallen along the way.  Only the chosen one shall reach ever reach victory!  Don't lose sight!


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## JC (Jul 19, 2009)

syndicate said:


> Oh no you didnt lolz...
> Just look at the snake hobby people pay up to 150,000 dollars for a special morph!
> I think if metallica does become cheap that is a good thing!Obviously it sucks if you spend a bunch of cash on an animal than the value decreases but if there cheap than everyone can have one and enjoy them!
> -Chris


Yeah, but why would you care about the price decreasing if you only purchased it with the intention of enjoying the animal? I personally would never become annoyed if a animal I bought lost value after I bought it unless I only bought it because it was the "in" thing, then I'd just be mad at myself for being so stupid. Believing that because a number of hobbyist that sell P.metallicas or any T for low prices somehow "ruins the hobby" is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. If anything it would make the hobby bigger and better. Why the do you think they are so pricey in the first place? Because thats how much their "worth"? Basically all those in favor of prices remaining as high as they are are hoping to make some money big money later on, which is exactly the problem. Trying to keep prices as high as possible an making something rare when it doesn't have to be in order for you to make it profit sounds pretty messed up. Other tarantulas of the genus Poecilotheria seem to be making it in to the hobby pretty nicely, but for some reason this blue one just seems to snailing along in, hmm :? . Wait for the prices to come down? Naw, I'd rather start my own P.metallica breeding project and help bring the prices down myself. ;P


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## syndicate (Jul 19, 2009)

arachneman said:


> I'd rather start my own P.metallica breeding project and help bring the prices down myself. ;P


Hey know ones stopping you! Just keep in mind it may take you quite a few years and a lot of your hard earned money to make it happen ;]
I will be trying to pair metallica up here in the next month or so but to be honest I highly doubt I will have any luck!I know a couple breeders here in the USA which I consider to be some of the best here in the states and I know some of these guys have been trying for some time with no or little luck.I also know a breeder from New Jersey who got a big healthy metallica egg sack without doing any special tricks.He just put them together and thats it.There's a select few in the USA who are having excellent luck with breeding these.Kelly Swift has been doing a great job and also the guys over at tarantulas.com seem to be as well.Perhaps they know a secret there not sharing or maybe its just luck!!Some people say there over rated spiders but I say those people havent kept them yet!haha!
-Chris


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## JC (Jul 19, 2009)

Wow, didn't know they were that hard, but ya have to be in it to win! Hopefully everyone with a pair of these guys tries!



syndicate said:


> Some people say there over rated spiders but I say those people havent kept them yet!haha!
> -Chris


Same here!


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## Protectyaaaneck (Jul 19, 2009)

My male just molted about a week ago and is now a little over 4".  

Good luck to anyone trying to breed them.  They are a gorgeous sp.


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## syndicate (Jul 19, 2009)

arachneman said:


> Wow, didn't know they were that hard, but ya have to be in it to win!


If they weren't hard to breed they would be all over the place!At least now we do have more and more people having luck in the USA so that is a very good thing.The more there produced here the less we have to rely on European imports to get them into our tanks ;]
-Chris


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## Sathane (Jul 19, 2009)

It seems to me that quite a few of the posters on this thread have a hard time dealing with the fact that some people are better off financially. That's just too bad.  If you aren't happy with your income, do something about it. I see so many people complain about 'the hand they've been dealt' yet they play the same hand over and over again.
No one is going to hand you anything on a silver platter.  You are just going to have to work for it.

This directly translates to the purchase of Ts or anything else. If you want some of the more expensive Ts, work for them.  For those saying that anyone not selling their Ts for far below market value are 'just in it for the money', well, your knowledge of basic finance is severely lacking and, in my opinion, you are one of those people who expects a handout whenever you think you are due. No one out here owes you anything. If you want something that is considered expensive, work for it. Ts are considered a luxury item, not a necessity.  Regardless of how much you bitch and complain about the prices, I would bet good money that, if you worked to produce a _P. metallica_ sac you wouldn't be giving them away for $30.  Stop being such a hypocrite. This is the world you live in. Deal with it or continue to fall behind and be miserable. 

Anyway, I'm off to the BMW dealership.  Their Z4s are so pretty and I want one badly but can't afford it so if I complain enough maybe they'll give me one for $10,000 or less. Wish me luck.


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## Exo (Jul 19, 2009)

Sathane said:


> It seems to me that quite a few of the posters on this thread have a hard time dealing with the fact that some people are better off financially. That's just too bad.  If you aren't happy with your income, do something about it. I see so many people complain about 'the hand they've been dealt' yet they play the same hand over and over again.
> No one is going to hand you anything on a silver platter.  You are just going to have to work for it.




I don't care how much money anyone has, I'm just saying that to someone who has more money, a 200 dollar T dosen't seem as expensive as it does to someone who has less money. It's all a matter of perspective.


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## Paramite (Jul 19, 2009)

Sathane said:


> It seems to me that quite a few of the posters on this thread have a hard time dealing with the fact that some people are better off financially. That's just too bad.  If you aren't happy with your income, do something about it. I see so many people complain about 'the hand they've been dealt' yet they play the same hand over and over again.
> No one is going to hand you anything on a silver platter.  You are just going to have to work for it.


It's not about whether you have the money or not. Like I said, tarantulas are ridiculously cheap anyway. The fact that pisses me off about P. metallica is  that they aren't rare anymore and they are still one of the most expensive tarantulas there is. I recently bought a female, so the money isn't an issue to me, even though I'm not exactly rich.


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## Sathane (Jul 19, 2009)

Very true, everything is relative.

However, expensivity (is that even a word?) is also relative to how much someone wants something.  Someone who would think $200 was too much money for a pair of Reebok shoes might not think $200 was too much for a pair of Nikes that they really wanted.



Exo said:


> I don't care how much money anyone has, I'm just saying that to someone who has more money, a 200 dollar T dosen't seem as expensive as it does to someone who has less money. It's all a matter of perspective.


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## JC (Jul 19, 2009)

Paramite said:


> It's not about whether you have the money or not. Like I said, tarantulas are ridiculously cheap anyway. The fact that pisses me off about P. metallica is  that they aren't rare anymore and they are still one of the most expensive tarantulas there is. .


What he said. I think people just want to see them more in the hobby, thats all.


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## Sathane (Jul 19, 2009)

I just kind of roll with the market prices for this reason.  They might not be considered rare but they aren't exactly abundant here either.  When there are so many of them that they far exceed demand, you can bet that their prices will drop considerably.  They aren't the easiest species to breed and have relatively small yields per sac so I don't see they little guys saturating the market anytime soon.

They are still one of the most sought after Ts in the hobby so this will also keep prices high until something more attractive comes along. 



Paramite said:


> It's not about whether you have the money or not. Like I said, tarantulas are ridiculously cheap anyway. The fact that pisses me off about P. metallica is  that they aren't rare anymore and they are still one of the most expensive tarantulas there is. I recently bought a female, so the money isn't an issue to me, even though I'm not exactly rich.


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## tarantulaholic (Jul 19, 2009)

Sathane said:


> It seems to me that quite a few of the posters on this thread have a hard time dealing with the fact that some people are better off financially. That's just too bad.  If you aren't happy with your income, do something about it. I see so many people complain about 'the hand they've been dealt' yet they play the same hand over and over again.
> No one is going to hand you anything on a silver platter.  You are just going to have to work for it.
> Anyway, I'm off to the BMW dealership.  Their Z4s are so pretty and I want one badly but can't afford it so if I complain enough maybe they'll give me one for $10,000 or less. Wish me luck.



It has nothing to do with money, I know for my part its not. Its the greed of breeders/sellers I wont support. Oh, btw that new Z4 I can pay cash, but I wont its looks gay and you can get way better (cooler) car for a lot less money.


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## Sathane (Jul 19, 2009)

Selling items at the market values (around $150+ each here in Canada) isn't dealer greed, IMO.

I agree, it was just an example though.  Personally, my new car is going to be a toss up between the Mitsubishi Eclipse GTP, Hyundai Genesis Coupe, Shelby Cobra GT500 or the Camaro 2SS. 



tarantulaholic said:


> It has nothing to do with money, I know for my part its not. Its the greed of breeders/sellers I wont support. Oh, btw that new Z4 I can pay cash, but I wont its looks gay and you can get way better (cooler) car for a lot less money.


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## tarantulaholic (Jul 19, 2009)

Sathane said:


> Selling items at the market values (around $150+ each here in Canada) isn't dealer greed, IMO.
> 
> I agree, it was just an example though.  Personally, my new car is going to be a toss up between the Hyundai Genesis Coupe, the Camaro 2SS.


The top 2 cars are really very nice, for the price Id take Genesis coupe R-spec its lighter and 3K cheaper than regular Genesis coupe. Camaros 2010 are still hype up as of now, thx to transformers movie, its currently overpriced.
Basically it boils down to what makes people happy, its there money and spend it the way they like. I know Ive spent some non-sense $$$ in stupid stuff, lived and learn now.


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## Paramite (Jul 19, 2009)

My next car will probably be the cheapest I can get.

There's really no need to have a car when I'm living in the middle of the city.


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## Sathane (Jul 19, 2009)

I really like the look of my first two picks but they aren't very spacious.  My girlfriend has two teenage kids and one is a hockey player so space is an issue.  Not a huge one since I recently bought her a Sante Fe but she looks at me sideways when I oogle the small sporty cars.

I really love the Genesis Coupe but the trunk might as well be a mail slot.  Very tiny.  I had to drop kick the hockey bag to get it in and, as far as moving computer equipment, forget it.  The trunk is just too tiny for most servers or larger equipment and I won't put that stuff on the leather seats.  So far the Genesis has everything I'm looking for in terms of options and is dead sexy.  The Eclipses are very hot too but no factory bluetooth? C'mon.
The Shelby and the Camaro are nice looking, spacious, and have tons of power but I'm still leaning towards the Genesis.  

Agreed completely.  When I was a kid, I bet I spent thousands of dollars in the arcade a quarter at a time.  A huge huge waste in hindsight but it's what made me happy at the time.  Now, I'm more of an 'experience' spender.  Nice trips, nice restaurants, etc.  Memories last much longer than fancy clothes or material items.  I consider my Ts a bit of both though.  

The experience of being around, caring for, and learning about these fascinating animals as well as having them in my collection brings me great joy.




tarantulaholic said:


> The top 2 cars are really very nice, for the price Id take Genesis coupe R-spec its lighter and 3K cheaper than regular Genesis coupe. Camaros 2010 are still hype up as of now, thx to transformers movie, its currently overpriced.
> Basically it boils down to what makes people happy, its there money and spend it the way they like. I know Ive spent some non-sense $$$ in stupid stuff, lived and learn now.


For sure.  My business requires me to be all over the place so actually having my own vehicle is the most practical for me. 

I have a few friends in Toronto and Hamilton that have office jobs though and they rarely drive their vehicles.  Two of them don't even own vehicles.  The public transportation in those cities is excellent and driving around, especially in Toronto, can get retarded at times so it makes more sense to use public transportation for them.



Paramite said:


> My next car will probably be the cheapest I can get.
> 
> There's really no need to have a car when I'm living in the middle of the city.


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## roncruiser (Jul 20, 2009)

Many T enthusiast's want the infamous P. Metallica.  Prices are still too high for most.  Sure the market will saturate someday, but why not bring the prices down enough to entice others like myself to purchase a sling or two? Not saying sell them dirt cheap, but don't price it way out there.  Like I said in my earlier posts,  if prices come down to reasonable levels in 2-3 years, I'll buy a couple.  I suspect prices will drop.


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## Sathane (Jul 20, 2009)

Again, supply and demand.  There is enough demand for this species that they will sell at the going market rate quite easily.  Sure, it would be nice to get one at bargain basement prices but no dealer/breeder is obligated to offer this.  If a dealer/breeder chooses to sell at a lower price, good for them and I'm sure it will result in repeat business and better customer retention, however, again, this is something that they need to decide to do on their own.  
Consumers are ALWAYS going to want something for cheaper no matter what it is and regardless of the price.  There is an extra degree in satisfaction that accompanies getting a good deal on something, I get that and employ the 'undercut the competition' tactic often in my business dealings, however, that's something I *choose* to do and I would be less likely to offer such discounts to anyone who is so self-entitled that they think they are _owed_ this type of special treatment - especially when their behaviour gets annoying and invasive.  Unless I have such a surplus of stock on an item (tarantulas or otherwise) that I need to move them quickly, significant discounts are normally reserved for good customers and friends - as mentioned earlier - and then only if stock levels allow this luxury.

I'm not saying this is what everyone here is doing.  Just expressing an opinion.


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## Noexcuse4you (Jul 20, 2009)




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## Sathane (Jul 20, 2009)

LMAO!  He's not dead, he's sleeping.. 



Noexcuse4you said:


>


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## JC (Jul 20, 2009)

Noexcuse4you said:


>


LOL! I agree.


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## roncruiser (Jul 20, 2009)

Yeah, I understand supply and demand.  I'm not asking for prices to drop in 6-12 months.  I'm not asking for a handout either.  You are missing out on a group of enthusiasts that think $175 for a P. Metallica sling is crazy.  Sure there are people that will pay that price but that group of hardcore enthusiasts will dry up to a trickle.  I suspect those are the same people that will in turn breed these spiders to take advantage of the market and offer them at a reduced price.  Good for people like me.  Like I said earlier... in 2-4 years I may pay $50-$60 a sling from an online or board breeder, unless I attain them sooner. Until then, forget about it... I'll attain it from the Southern Cal network of enthusiasts somehow... a lot sooner and at a reduced price.  If that's the case, in 2-4 years when the prices may be be lower... I'll have had my P. Metallica slings for some time already.


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## Anastasia (Jul 20, 2009)

Sathane said:


> LMAO!  He's not dead, he's sleeping..


dis ones dead 





see them flyez? :}


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## Sathane (Jul 20, 2009)

I sure hope so.  I think I'd strangle myself to death if I had to be repeatedly whacked in the nuts with a baseball bat.  



Anastasia said:


> dis ones dead
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Exo (Jul 20, 2009)

Sathane said:


> I sure hope so.  I think I'd strangle myself to death if I had to be repeatedly whacked in the nuts with a baseball bat.




The story of my life.


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## Paramite (Jul 20, 2009)

Sathane said:


> I sure hope so.  I think I'd strangle myself to death if I had to be repeatedly whacked in the nuts with a baseball bat.


What? Are you trying to tell me you don't like it? :wall:


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## Sathane (Jul 20, 2009)

LOL.  I have to admit, I've never had it happen so I can't say for sure.  Just an educated guess. 



Paramite said:


> What? Are you trying to tell me you don't like it? :wall:


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## US Arachnids (Aug 9, 2009)

P. Metallicas will eventually go down in price. After P. Metallicas become common like other species the price will drop. It has happened with other species and still continues, P. Metallicas are HOT and are Gorgeous spiders, Thats just the way it is. But at the same time im not saying P. Metallicas wont still be expensive, They just wont be $600 bucks lol. There hot on the market & after enough of them are hatched out and sold and that cycle repeats over and over and over, The prices will then drop. might not happen with in the next 2 years LOL but time given, eventually it will.


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## Noexcuse4you (Aug 9, 2009)

The thread lives on!!


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## Exo (Aug 9, 2009)

I'll Be Back!


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## dougle (Aug 9, 2009)

*dougle*

Dont ever start a thread about P Metallica on this site , they dont like it , they may even pull your P Metallica thread like they have done to others already, but I want say any names! Its a great blue tatrantual and everybody wants them including me.:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:


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## ZergFront (Aug 9, 2009)

Yeah, I got to say I want one, but unfortunately for me, money isn't growing on our trees around here.  

 All well, first some other less expensive, crazy arboreals. Muahaha!!


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## Steve Calceatum (Aug 9, 2009)

Wow...I thought this thread died a while ago.



dougle said:


> Dont ever start a thread about P Metallica on this site , they dont like it , they may even pull your P Metallica thread like they have done to others already, but I want say any names! Its a great blue tatrantual and everybody wants them including me.:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:


Nope..we actually LOVE P. metalica threads. Don't believe me? Just use the Search feature and see how many P. metallica threads there are, and look at how many views these threads have had. It's the asinine ones that seem to frost everyone's cookies....or worse yet, when the OP is being an antagonistic #$%!!@#


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## Sathane (Aug 9, 2009)

Well put.  



xsyorra said:


> Wow...I thought this thread died a while ago.
> 
> 
> 
> Nope..we actually LOVE P. metalica threads. Don't believe me? Just use the Search feature and see how many P. metallica threads there are, and look at how many views these threads have had. It's the asinine ones that seem to frost everyone's cookies....or worse yet, when the OP is being an antagonistic #$%!!@#


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## vvx (Aug 9, 2009)

The only thing the tarantula hobbyist can do to kill the market price on p. metallica is to breed them.

Given the potential for exponential growth of the number of p. metallica slings available for sale, it very well could cause the price to drop a lot. It wouldn't be because the hobbyists charged too little though, you simply couldn't move that many at $150-$200 a sling. The price would have to drop to sell the quantity now available.

But really, why should I care if the market price on P. metallica drops and some people make less money as a result?


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## Sathane (Aug 9, 2009)

Agreed.

If the availability is high and the price drops, it drops - that's the natural cycle of supply and demand.  No amount of whining or complaining is going to stop it or speed it up.

The OP seems upset that the price is high because he/she wants one and doesn't think it's worth the price that they are fetching.  As far as I'm concerned, no matter the price, if you want it badly enough - you'll pay it.


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## roncruiser (Aug 9, 2009)

Of course it's supply and demand.  That's the easy most obvious most correct answer.  Yeah, I want one, but not that bad.  Which means to me, it's certainly not worth the current prices.  The prices will go down, just not anytime soon.  Demand is here.


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## netmare (Aug 9, 2009)

I've got a hundred on it.

cg


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