# Here little spider, time for your rat.



## Steve Nunn (Jun 20, 2006)

Hi,
Look what the cat dragged in, waste not want not  



















Steve


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## pinkfoot (Jun 20, 2006)

Jeez! Please tell me that giant was DOA!


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## IguanaMama (Jun 20, 2006)

How big is the spider's abdomin after devoring that?  I would like to see after pictures.  Does it just go for the insides and leave the fur behind?  Was your cat all mad and jealous that you stole it's tasty catch of the day?


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## Steve Nunn (Jun 20, 2006)

Hi,
The rat was well and truly dead before being put in. Unusual, the cat never catches anything, this year 2 rats, that's it. The cat knows not to catch stuff, so he's in the doghouse 

I don't think any hair gets eaten, the spiders are able to filter out all that sort of stuff. I've seen rat skulls in other burrows from adults of this species, they quite enjoy them actually  Worked out good all round, the females need to put a lot of wieght on this time of year.

Steve


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## DanHalen (Jun 20, 2006)

Oh you crazy aussies


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## kyle_de_aussie (Jun 20, 2006)

Thats your biggest girl, the one your mating with my boy ?
I have been feeding my pregnant female's and my mature males bits of raw topside steak they love it so much and it really fattens them up to the max


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## Pennywise (Jun 20, 2006)

Great Photos Steve!  What species of T is that, I'm not familiar with it, but I
have to assume it's Australian?


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## Steve Nunn (Jun 20, 2006)

Hi Kyle,
She's my second biggest, around 17.5cm or so??

They love their meat hey 

This species is _Phlogius/Selenocosmia sp. "Sarina"_.

Cheers,
Steve


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## Taceas (Jun 20, 2006)

Nice _mouse_.

And a very shiney T. Although don't you fear feeding wild-caught prey to your critters? Passing on parasites in the intestines and whatnot.


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## bistrobob85 (Jun 20, 2006)

Really good looking spider . Is it me or do Aussie spiders eat bigger preys than other spiders? I've read quite a few things about australian spiders eating big preys... 

 phil.


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## Brian S (Jun 20, 2006)

Thats a neat photo Steve


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## 8ball (Jun 20, 2006)

I hate seeing mammal's get eaten  that's a nice little cave your T has though lol.


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## Steve Nunn (Jun 20, 2006)

Taceas said:
			
		

> Nice _mouse_.
> 
> And a very shiney T. Although don't you fear feeding wild-caught prey to your critters? Passing on parasites in the intestines and whatnot.


Hi,
Firstly, that's no mouse, that *rat* was over 7" including the tail. Mouse, yeah  Sarcasm will get you everywhere. For the record, young rats have big ears too  Not long in the hobby?

These spiders are found around my home. I live among this species, as I stated (if you read all posts first, you would have read this too) rat skulls have been found within their burrows, Whether or not they eat them as carrion or take them as live prey I cannot say. This does not seem to affect local populations and nematodes within these mammals do not seem to use theraphosids as host animals (pers. Obs.). 

If you have reason to doubt what I'm saying, ask. Presuming and then thinking you're on the money without asking first would make me think you probably think you know more then you really do. Particularly when you're confident enough to publicly have a go at me about what I'm saying, without having the intelligence to make sure you're right. How long have you been in the hobby??

What is you're name, I can't stand talking to no names, even a first name would be good.

Cheers,
Steve


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## Stylopidae (Jun 20, 2006)

Fosters: australlian for Beer

Rat similar in size to one you'd find in a new york sewer= australlian for cricket


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## 8ball (Jun 20, 2006)

Steve Nunn said:
			
		

> Hi,
> Firstly, that's no mouse, that *rat* was over 7" including the tail. Mouse, yeah  Sarcasm will get you everywhere. For the record, young rats have big ears too  Not long in the hobby?
> 
> These spiders are found around my home. I live among this species, as I stated (if you read all posts first, you would have read this too) rat skulls have been found within their burrows, Whether or not they eat them as carrion or take them as live prey I cannot say. This does not seem to affect local populations and nematodes within these mammals do not seem to use theraphosids as host animals (pers. Obs.).
> ...


Yea that's way too big to be a mouse unless you fed it miracle grow lol.


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## 8ball (Jun 20, 2006)

Evil Cheshire said:
			
		

> Fosters: australlian for Beer
> 
> Rat similar in size to one you'd find in a new york sewer= australlian for cricket


Oh man, I hated all the rat's in NY, im moving back to NY in the fall.


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## Crotalus (Jun 20, 2006)

Steve, if you fed it a bandicoot - then I would been impressed! 

/Lelle


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## Steve Nunn (Jun 20, 2006)

8ball said:
			
		

> I hate seeing mammal's get eaten


Hi,
Yes, I understand exactly what you're saying. I'm a big promoter for as little vertebrate prey as possible for most inverts. I don't keep the really big NW theraphosids like _T.blondi_, so I don't see any of mine need meat as such in their diet and frankly I think most people who feed mice and things to their spiders do so for shock value, more then any need the spider may have.

I think nearly 99.9% of all captive therpahosids do fine on a strict invert diet, often all meat will do is stink up an enclosure.

That said I do like to "beef" my big girls up before egg production and it's that time of year. So, when the cat brought the rat in, *dead*, I simply thought, why not?? And why not photograph it while it's happening. I see it in the wild often, so I know the spiders actually eat these things around town.

But, I do see where you're coming from 

Cheers,
Steve


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## Steve Nunn (Jun 20, 2006)

Crotalus said:
			
		

> Steve, if you fed it a bandicoot - then I would been impressed!


Hi Lelle,
HA!!! Now those things are full of parasites!!! I've never seen any bandicoot bones in a burrow (bit toooo big I think ), but lots of other bones that would amaze, trust me  


Steve


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## Crotalus (Jun 20, 2006)

Steve Nunn said:
			
		

> Hi Lelle,
> HA!!! Now those things are full of parasites!!! I've never seen any bandicoot bones in a burrow (bit toooo big I think ), but lots of other bones that would amaze, trust me


You have just been in the wrong burrow 
Crazylooking rats, im almost amazed that taipans eat them


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## Steve Nunn (Jun 20, 2006)

*A genuine Aussie chicken eater....IMAGE*

A true Aussie chicken eater:







Steve


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## Crotalus (Jun 20, 2006)

Steve Nunn said:
			
		

> A true Aussie chicken eater:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is so..wrong
A friend saw a cow eating a roadkill in Australia..strange animals you got down there


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## Steve Nunn (Jun 20, 2006)

You should see the "carnivorous" animals down under, lol


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## Steve Nunn (Jun 20, 2006)

Crotalus said:
			
		

> A friend saw a cow eating a roadkill in Australia..


Export quality beef right there


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## syndicate (Jun 20, 2006)

Steve Nunn said:
			
		

> A true Aussie chicken eater:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


omg man haha.thats crazy.anyone remeber when scott on here fed a t.blonde a alligator?


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## Bearo (Jun 21, 2006)

hhmm cow eating cow = mad cow, bird eating bird =  
weird pic, did the bird like it?

Did she finish the rat, and if so, in how long time?
How big does this species get and in about wich size do they start to take down mamals?


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## Steve Nunn (Jun 21, 2006)

Bearo said:
			
		

> hhmm cow eating cow = mad cow, bird eating bird =
> weird pic, did the bird like it?


No clue, not my bird  I'd never feed a cocky something like that, as Lelle said, it's just so wrong, LOL



> Did she finish the rat, and if so, in how long time?
> How big does this species get and in about which size do they start to take down mamals?


She didn't finish the rat, just WAY too much meat for her. She got through the head and shoulders. She had the rat for a day and a half.

I cannot say how big they need to be before taking mammals, but I have on the very rare occassion, tried feeding beef pieces to 5th instars onward and they take the meat happily. I think it would just depend on the size of the prey to *some* extent. But a full grown adult will take on prey much larger then itself, probably a development in the spiders behaviour to suit the prey in their environment. 

Nothing that special, just an adaption they needed for survival in certain climates *possibly* some time after the breakup of Pangea. The change happened a long time ago in a distant ancestor, because several genera here show the same behavioural characteristics. Perhaps the change goes back further then that (originated within Africa before Pangea broke up), just that most species in our day and age have not needed to maintain the behaviour to survive. Would make sense, most of the worlds arthropods got smaller over time, which would explain perhaps a large loss in the behaviour.

To be honest I have no clue, but the fact the same behaviour is seen in several of our genera makes me wonder whether it originated here or in Africa???

Steve


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## Sheri (Jun 21, 2006)

Steve Nunn said:
			
		

> I've seen rat skulls in other burrows from adults of this species, Steve


Adult skulls?


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## Steve Nunn (Jun 21, 2006)

Hi Sheri, Yep, full grown _Rattus rattus_ skulls within the burrows, amazing. As I said though, I really don't know whether or not the prey was taken as carrion or live.

The first time this year the cat caught a full grown rat, same species (we have two introduced rat species here, _R.rattus_/ship rat, and _R.norvegicus_/sewer rat) and I put that into another full grown Sarina sp. enclosure, only about a foot away from her burrow, she came out and easily dragged it back to the burrow, that rat was huge, full grown.

Steve


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## Sheri (Jun 21, 2006)

Impressive.  That would be cool as all hell to see, I admit. 

I need to come visit your homeland one day.


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## Longbord1 (Jun 21, 2006)

wow sweet pic! i know that you said that parasites from the rat won't hurt the T but what about pesticides?

on the cocky note, we feed my aunts parrot turkey on thanksgiving!


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## rattler_mt (Jun 21, 2006)

sweet thread, very informative

for those of you worried bout parasites in situations like this, most parasites are quite specific about the critters they use for hosts, sure nematodes will affect both mammals and T's BUT they arent the same species of nematode. infact its generally a quite notable event when a parasite uses hosts from several classes(example reptiles and mammals playing host to the same species) of anamals and its not terribly common though some of the individual parasite species that do do it may themselves be common and there for well known


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## Steve Nunn (Jun 21, 2006)

rattler_mt said:
			
		

> for those of you worried bout parasites in situations like this,


Hi,
Excellent post, all very good and accurate points about nematodes and other internal watnots.

Even among those rare species that do cross class levels of host species, 98% of those will not harm the host in any way. Usually, it's not beneficial to the parasite to kill its host, but, unfortunately, it does happen. Just not the norm 

You find a nematode that crosses class and kills its host and you're dealing with a rare situation. Unfortunatley, we have noted that, there is a nematode that will cross from skinks to theraphosids, with the theraphosids coming out worst in the deal (Raven 2000, Obs. in Brisbane, Qld).

I should also point out that the skinks with the nematodes that kill tarantulas are not found in the tarantulas native habitat, interestingly enough. So, this situation might not been seen in the wild at all and so pretty much follows the above theory.

Steve

Steve


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## cacoseraph (Jun 22, 2006)

Steve Nunn said:
			
		

> No clue, not my bird  I'd never feed a cocky something like that, as Lelle said, it's just so wrong, LOL
> 
> 
> 
> ...


you know, i was looking at some of my obts (who will bag roaches that look to mass more than them) and they have the sort of extended abdomen that many of the aussie species seem to have. not proof of course, but something to think about


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## CopperInMyVeins (Jun 22, 2006)

cacoseraph said:
			
		

> you know, i was looking at some of my obts (who will bag roaches that look to mass more than them) and they have the sort of extended abdomen that many of the aussie species seem to have. not proof of course, but something to think about


Hysterocrates has the same look, and actually looks pretty much the same as Phlogius/Selenocosmia overall, except with the largest legs in the back instead of the front.  The one I take care of will also attack just about anything, even my foreceps, and consume adult orange headed roaches without any noticeable change in it's abdomen size.  I've noticed the similarity to the Australian spiders myself before, but I haven't seen it mentioned on the boards before.


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## TarantulaLV (Jun 22, 2006)

I am going to say what everyone is thinking but has not said yet: AHHHHH!!! DISTGUSTING!!! I can only imagine the mess you had on your hands after this one!! I hate feeding my T's large animals with internal nervous systems especially live one's!! It is horrific! At any rate I am aware that for some species crickets simply will not do unless you want to purchase 1-200 of them at your local pet store!! And worse feed all 1-200 of them to your T. Anyways thanks for sharing.....I think


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## Steve Nunn (Jun 22, 2006)

TarantulaLV said:
			
		

> I hate feeding my T's large animals with internal nervous systems especially live one's!! It is horrific!


Hi,
Me too, um, that rat was dead before being fed to the spider, did you know that???

Steve


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## Steve Nunn (Jun 22, 2006)

CopperInMyVeins said:
			
		

> Hysterocrates has the same look, and actually looks pretty much the same as Phlogius/Selenocosmia overall, except with the largest legs in the back instead of the front.


Hi,
Yes, there is a relationship between the two groups and similarities like the abdomen are all indicators of this.

The _Phlogius_ look like a lot of the African Eumenophorinae, it is hard to separate them from some of the _Anoploscelus_ and _Phoneyusa_ at first glance. Our _Selenotypus_ more resemble the _Hysterocrates_ types, but the close relationship between the Selenocosmiinae/Eumenophorinae is clearly evident.

Steve


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## jarvisnake (Jun 22, 2006)

Jeez, Steve, maybe you should edit your original pictures with a big lettered caption that says : THE RAT WAS ALREADY DEAD! FOUND DEAD! 
Just for the ones who won't bother to read the whole thread.


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## nightbreed (Jun 22, 2006)

Very cool pics. 

If your cat is anything like mine it would of got bored and abandoned that rat as soon as it was dead, nice to see it didn't go to waste.


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## Bearo (Jun 22, 2006)

nightbreed said:
			
		

> nice to see it didn't go to waste.


Well said.. Why arnt the "_Bad Steve, your T isnt worth food_"-people thinking like this?


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## CedrikG (Jun 22, 2006)

The first time I saw the picture I knew there was going to be 40 reply or +++ on this post


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## danread (Jun 22, 2006)

Steve Nunn said:
			
		

> Even among those rare species that do cross class levels of host species, 98% of those will not harm the host in any way. Usually, it's not beneficial to the parasite to kill its host, but, unfortunately, it does happen. Just not the norm


Unfortunately this isn't really the case with nematode parasites of invertebrates,  more often than not they tend to be pathogenic, that is, they kill the host. I think this may have more to do with the fact that invertebrates are generally a less 'stable' host, there is a high chance at any one time of an invertebrate host dying due to age, predation, disease etc. Because of this it makes more sense to have a short generation time, kill the host and get out quick (or at least the offspring). Nematode parasites of mammals don't have this problem to the same extent, so it makes more sense to lead more of a benign lifestyle.

I do agree with the fact that a parasite of a mammal is unlikely to infect and invertebrate, so the relative danger of passing on an infection in this case is low.

Cheers,


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## TarantulaLV (Jun 22, 2006)

Steve Nunn said:
			
		

> Hi,
> Me too, um, that rat was dead before being fed to the spider, did you know that???
> 
> Steve


   I knew it was dead from all the conflict at the beginning of this thread re: that very issue, it's still somewhat creepy though.


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## Steve Nunn (Jun 27, 2006)

Longbord1 said:
			
		

> i know that you said that parasites from the rat won't hurt the T but what about pesticides?


Hi,
Pesticides ingested via a rat are really no concern. The only way the rat would ingest pesticide is through it's prey, an insect that may have ingested some. 99% of the insects that would ingest pesticides are capable of breaking those toxins down within their bodies in a remarkably short period of time (whether this is a quirky evolutionary trait I cannot say, I would think unlikely, because of the short time commercial pesticides have been around). The chances of those toxins that remain effective lasting until the spider ingested the rat are virtually nil.

Cheers,
Steve


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## Steve Nunn (Aug 2, 2006)

Hi,
Just for the record, here's a conspecific being fed an adult mouse (yes, another the cat dragged in, bloody cat). This might give you some perspective of size in Aussie "_Selenocosmia_" 













(and yes, you can see a small patch of mites on the abdomen and carapace)

Steve


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## Austin S. (Aug 2, 2006)

How big is the gal? Looks pretty big to me!


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## Steve Nunn (Aug 2, 2006)

She's about 18cm/just over 7" 7.5cm b/l, they get bigger than that too 

Steve


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## Nate (Aug 3, 2006)

Hold up, that’s not fair. Your cat gets the kill and your T gets to feast! When was the last time your one of your Ts feed the cat?


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## lychas (Aug 11, 2006)

sheri, if you ever come 2 aus and need a place 2 stay, let me know, we can go visit steve together, never tried feeding my t's meat, might do before i breed em


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## dannye (Aug 28, 2006)

bump......................................


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## Arietans (Aug 28, 2006)

Steve, that is impressive!!!  

As you said, waste not want not


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## Tropical T's (Oct 8, 2006)

TarantulaLV said:


> I am going to say what everyone is thinking but has not said yet: AHHHHH!!! DISTGUSTING!!! I can only imagine the mess you had on your hands after this one!! I hate feeding my T's large animals with internal nervous systems especially live one's!! It is horrific! At any rate I am aware that for some species crickets simply will not do unless you want to purchase 1-200 of them at your local pet store!! And worse feed all 1-200 of them to your T. Anyways thanks for sharing.....I think


I have to say all animals including crickets have an internal nervous system. As Steve said the rat was dead and it is part of the normal life cycle.
Australian T's are big and aggressive and there has been a report of one dragging a turkey chick away to its burrow so it does not surprise me that they would take on a rat. I have been keeping these guys for a few years now and I treat them with more caution than I do Australia's snakes and we have 9 of the top 10 venomous snakes in the world! To say everyone thinks it is disgusting is a big assumption. I see no difference to feeding my dog beef bones and chicken necks.
Cheers
Brendan


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## Varden (Oct 8, 2006)

Steve Nunn said:


> Hi,
> Just for the record, here's a conspecific being fed an adult mouse (yes, another the cat dragged in, bloody cat). This might give you some perspective of size in Aussie "_Selenocosmia_"



Oh WOW!  Beautiful, beautiful girl!

And don't be too hard on the cat.  She's doing her best to make sure those rats aren't living in your kitchen!


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## Tegenaria (Oct 8, 2006)

8ball said:


> I hate seeing mammal's get eaten


I dont see the difference between a mammal being eaten and a locust or other large invert.
Take the fur off a rat and its like a reptile, ugly and scaly,(not that i find reptiles ugly) put fur on and its cute and cuddly.


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## Gigas (Oct 8, 2006)

Its nature, its the same reason people find cats sooo adorable etc.
I saw some of these at the spider shops stand this weekend im so angry i didn't buy one.


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## demode (Oct 8, 2006)

Theres mites on your tarantula


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## Arachnophilist (Oct 8, 2006)

the mites look like tarantula poop


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