# Bedding for dubias



## barabootom (Jan 7, 2009)

I just purchased a bunch of dubias and am curious what everyone is using for bedding.  I read pine shavings is a bad idea and some keepers use nothing but egg cartons.  What do you use?


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## El Viejo (Jan 7, 2009)

barabootom said:


> I just purchased a bunch of dubias and am curious what everyone is using for bedding.  I read pine shavings is a bad idea and some keepers use nothing but egg cartons.  What do you use?


Here's what I do:
Mine are in about a 2 gallon square plastic container. I think kitty litter or something similar came in it. I don't keep a lid on it since they cannot climb up the walls. The bottom has a thin (~1/2 inch) layer of aspen shavings. I also have about 3-4 egg cartons that I have cut down to fit, & they are sitting vertically in the container, leaning against one wall. Feeding is easy - dog food, fish flakes, fresh fruits & veggies. Sometimes I water down the dog food to make sure they're get enough moisture. There is no odor, and I rarely, if ever clean the container out. I have the things running out my ears!


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## Matt K (Jan 7, 2009)

It was not kitty litter, it was chicken feed.

You do not need to use bedding (aka 'substrate') for B. dubia.  However many people do with great results.  I use cypress mulch about 2 inches deep myself, but the previous post by 'El Viejo' is good advice to follow too.

Dubia are commonly used because they are easy to keep, and you can fool with thier setup until you find someway that is easiest for you and works well for them.


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## arachyd (Jan 7, 2009)

I don't use substrate for my dubia. I do use it for my other roaches. The dubia I have in plastic bins with thin vertical sheets of corkboard (the stuff you tack notes on, not cork bark) and a few toilet paper rolls to hide in. I hold 4 or 5 cork sheets together with spaces between by pushing wooden craft picks through them. Their preferred area seems to be hanging between the sheets of cork.  There is a shallow layer of frass no matter how often I clean them out. I find it much easier to capture nymphs if they are not tunneling under substrate. Dubia can dig down pretty fast. I just lift up the cork and pick off whichever roaches I need at the moment.


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## barabootom (Jan 8, 2009)

Thanks everyone.  I'm think I'm going to just use egg cartons then.   It sounds like there isn't any reason to spend money on anything so I won't.


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## JDHuskey (Jan 8, 2009)

Good idea, I keep them no substrate as well, they make their own, the frass will build up pretty quick once your colony is going.  The babies eat it as well so don't try and clean it out too often.

Last time I cleaned out mine (after 8 months or so) it had 1 1/2" of the stuff in the bottom.


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## dunawayj (Jan 8, 2009)

Mine aree doing fine in just rubermaid containers with egg cartons. I do have have a heating blanket under them since we keep the house at a constant 71-72.


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## Rochelle (Jan 9, 2009)

OK ~ 1.5" of frass is disgusting and is no longer beneficial to the colony. Clean regularly. The nymphs do eat it - but in tiny amounts. Any build up of waste is never a good idea ~ even for roaches. If you are feeding them to your other animals ~ especially so.  
Blaptica dubia do not require substrate...unless you have set up a "pet" colony. Then they will greatly appreciate the ability to do what they do naturally.  

We have tens of thousands of dubia at any given time - between sales...and do not allow the frass to build up to that extent. Yuck.


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## Eclipse (Jan 9, 2009)

Just use egg cartons bro. It'll be easier for you and the roaches. Oh by the way, I just got mine today! Although not a lot, it's a start. Anyone know how long it'll take for 100 dubias to get to a 1000?


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## El Viejo (Jan 9, 2009)

Eclipse said:


> Just use egg cartons bro. It'll be easier for you and the roaches. Oh by the way, I just got mine today! Although not a lot, it's a start. Anyone know how long it'll take for 100 dubias to get to a 1000?


I don't know how long it takes them to get from 100 to 1000, but I know that as a colony they're slow growing at first. Once you get them to 1000, you should have little or no problem maintaining that.


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## gvfarns (Jan 10, 2009)

The colony only grows when you aren't thinking about it.  It's like boiling water. 

As for substrate, they definitely don't need it, but I find it cuts the smell down.  They aren't real smelly to begin with, but after a while you will definitely notice the frass.  If you have substrate, this will not happen for a long time. 

Doesn't really matter what you use.  I use potting soil.  

I'm actually thinking of tossing some red wrigglers in there.  I'd have to keep the substrate real moist, but in theory they should eat the frass and any spilled food and mold.  I'm about to start a lateralis colony and I think I'm going to do this.  I really hate cleaning out roach enclosures, so if I could get some kind of perpetual ecosystem cleaning going on that would be optimal.


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## JDHuskey (Jan 12, 2009)

From 100 to 1000 will take around 6 months if you keep them warm and dark.  This time next year you will have more than you will ever need.  It depends on a lot of things, how many you feed off, temps, light, etc.


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## Moltar (Jan 14, 2009)

gvfarns said:


> I'm actually thinking of tossing some red wrigglers in there.  I'd have to keep the substrate real moist, but in theory they should eat the frass and any spilled food and mold.  I'm about to start a lateralis colony and I think I'm going to do this.  I really hate cleaning out roach enclosures, so if I could get some kind of perpetual ecosystem cleaning going on that would be optimal.


What are red wrigglers?


My B dubia colony has at least an inch or frass in the bottom and the smell is minimal. The babies apparently eat the frass. In the beginning they need it to establish the flora in their gut (so i've heard). They seem to also enjoy digging around in it and since it's not really that foul (unless it gets wet, ugh) i just leave it. B lateralis are another story though, they can stink pretty badly although not as bad as crickets by any means. They're also more of an escape risk because they're so fast and more of an infestation risk because they breed SO fast.

I keep both my enclosures as dry as possible, both to keep them from getting funky and to slow reproduction. In spite of humidity thet never really rises above 50% and often stays more in the 20-30 range they are reproducing plenty. They may have been slowed but definitely not stopped.


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## scottyk (Jan 14, 2009)

etown_411 said:


> What are red wrigglers?


An earthworm with a fancy name  

http://www.unclejim.com/


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## gvfarns (Jan 17, 2009)

There are lots of types of earthworms.  The ones you use for fishing would die in a dubia cage.  Red wrigglers are small worms adapted for living near the surface.  They are more adaptable to temperatures and more hardy.  They are what people use for composting.

If you ever want to keep worms in something that's not deep soil, use red wrigglers.


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## gvfarns (Jan 17, 2009)

Yeah my lateralis colony used to stink a lot, but I think that's mainly because they eat a lot more and poop a lot more than dubia.  At least that's the way it seemed to me.  They also die and their dead bodies smell.

I got rid of that colony but I'm thinking of trying again with those guys because I'm fed up with the limitations of other roach species.  To control the smell, lots of substrate and red wrigglers (you can get them at petsmart).  Hopefully they will eat the frass, nasty food that starts molding, and maybe the dead roaches too.

I just hope they don't eat egg cases.


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## BestRoach (Jan 17, 2009)

Please keep us updated on the worms. If it works out, I wouldn't be against adding them to my colonies.

About the only "common" feeder that really needs substrate is B. Fumigata...atleast IMO. Dubia are fine without it.


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## elportoed (Jan 17, 2009)

*red wigglers*

I have been keeping red wigglers for a while now, but more for environmental reason.  They prefer veggies and fruits scrap, and occasional paper and dry leaves.  They like the substrate (basically the scrap and their casting) moist, almost soggy.  I keep them in worm bins and if the conditions isn't right, they tend to want to migrate out of the bins.  They are quite an escape artists too, although you wouldn't miss them when you have thousands in the bins.  But you can see dried up worms outside the bins, once the preferred condition is achieved, you'd see fewer or no worms outside the bins.

I'm not sure if it will work with the roach colony, since you want to keep the roach colony more dry than moist.  And they probably won't eat frass.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermicomposting

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/08/green-basics-vermicompost.php

http://wormswrangler.com/


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## gvfarns (Jan 17, 2009)

elportoed said:


> I have been keeping red wigglers for a while now, but more for environmental reason.  They prefer veggies and fruits scrap, and occasional paper and dry leaves.  They like the substrate (basically the scrap and their casting) moist, almost soggy.  I keep them in worm bins and if the conditions isn't right, they tend to want to migrate out of the bins.  They are quite an escape artists too, although you wouldn't miss them when you have thousands in the bins.  But you can see dried up worms outside the bins, once the preferred condition is achieved, you'd see fewer or no worms outside the bins.
> 
> I'm not sure if it will work with the roach colony, since you want to keep the roach colony more dry than moist.  And they probably won't eat frass.
> ]


Yeah not sure whether it will work.  But my understanding is that the primary reason we keep roach bins dry is to prevent mold.  My hypothesis is that the worms will eat whatever food starts molding and whatever mold forms.  I'm not aware of roaches particularly favoring dry conditions.  However, we do know that low humidity is hard for them (lateralis casings don't hatch, for example).  So I was going to keep it pretty moist.

Worms eat cow frass (manure) quite enthusiastically--they are used to convert dairy manure into usable compost--which is why I would think they would eat roach frass.

http://www.ciwmb.ca.gov/organics/worms/WormFact.htm

but of course I don't know.  I have to get the colony going first, and let it get nice and frassy before I start.  

Any ideas about whether they will eat the egg casings in a laterals enclosure based on your experience?


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## Digby Rigby (Jan 17, 2009)

*Isopods*

Isopods would serve you better I think as inocuous scavengers.

These are screaming tangerine:







Digby Rigby balboa28279@mypacks.net


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## elportoed (Jan 17, 2009)

gvfarns said:


> Yeah not sure whether it will work.  But my understanding is that the primary reason we keep roach bins dry is to prevent mold.  My hypothesis is that the worms will eat whatever food starts molding and whatever mold forms.  I'm not aware of roaches particularly favoring dry conditions.  However, we do know that low humidity is hard for them (lateralis casings don't hatch, for example).  So I was going to keep it pretty moist.
> 
> Worms eat cow frass (manure) quite enthusiastically--they are used to convert dairy manure into usable compost--which is why I would think they would eat roach frass.
> 
> ...


Oh, I think the roach will like to high moisture/humidity environments but the things that come with high humidity condition worry me.  So that's why most people try to get just enough humidity for the roach to thrive but nothing else.  

You aren't going to get out of cleaning out the waste duty.  Worm casting build up pretty fast too, so pick your frass.

I don't know if the worms will eat the egg casing.  They prefer green matter over animal matter.

I have a non thriving colony of B lateralis which I have trouble keeping them producing.  If the humidity is kept high, they would reproduce but I always have trouble with mites and molds.  So I keep them dryer, no mites, no molds, and very few nymphs.  I heard people keep them dryer and pick the egg cases from the container and hatch them separately in a higher humidity condition, too much work for me.


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## gvfarns (Jan 17, 2009)

elportoed said:


> Oh, I think the roach will like to high moisture/humidity environments but the things that come with high humidity condition worry me.  So that's why most people try to get just enough humidity for the roach to thrive but nothing else.
> 
> You aren't going to get out of cleaning out the waste duty.  Worm casting build up pretty fast too, so pick your frass.
> 
> ...


Do worm casings stink, though?  Darn.  I thought to our noses it was just rich, sweet soil.  Hmmm.  I really do want out of cleaning duty very badly.  It seems like nature doesn't stink, why should my enclosure?

The isopods are a good idea.  I've thought about them.  They would certainly clean up decaying food and I guess mold, but do they eat frass?  Maybe I'll try an experiment with them first.  Frankly it seems like keeping worms from dying from starvation or dehydration may be more difficult than isopods.  If they help the smell, I'm all over it.

Actually I think it's probably the dying roaches that cause the most stink, and it shouldn't be too hard to find something that will eat that.


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## elportoed (Jan 18, 2009)

gvfarns said:


> Do worm casings stink, though?  Darn.  I thought to our noses it was just rich, sweet soil.  Hmmm.  I really do want out of cleaning duty very badly.  It seems like nature doesn't stink, why should my enclosure?


You are right, the worm casting have that wet clean soil smell, not offensive at all.  But they do build up, and to clean that out could be a chore.  You can try keeping the red wigglers by themselves at first, it's easy enough to do.  It should be pretty inexpensive to start, if you build the bin yourself.


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## skips (Jan 18, 2009)

springtails thrive on detritus, would that work for waste control?  I'd love to do that as then I can feed the springs to other things.


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## gvfarns (Jan 18, 2009)

elportoed said:


> You are right, the worm casting have that wet clean soil smell, not offensive at all.  But they do build up, and to clean that out could be a chore.  You can try keeping the red wigglers by themselves at first, it's easy enough to do.  It should be pretty inexpensive to start, if you build the bin yourself.


I'm like so fascinated by the idea of having a big colony of those, eating my kitchen scraps and garbage and stuff.   The problem is that I live in a dang apt and don't have room.  Some day though...

anyway I'm going to try and make it work.  I'll start a thread about it when I get some more experience.


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## Don Asjes (Nov 7, 2021)

Can I use red cedar bedding for discoids dubias or hissing roaches?


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