# Black Widow Enclosure



## davus (Aug 12, 2004)

Hi guys has anyone kept black widows on here and if so has anyone got any pictures of their enclosures as im trying to get a few ideas for my little lady


----------



## Alex S. (Aug 12, 2004)

Latrodectus are very hardy spiders that do well in captivity. A medium sized jar with a thin layer of peat moss at tha bottom and a couple of vertical sticks works fine as an enclosure. Lightly mist the web once a week for water.

Alex S.


----------



## davus (Aug 13, 2004)

thanks for that alex..its a little colder over here so what would you recommend heat wise?


----------



## conway (Aug 13, 2004)

i keep my tarantulas at room temperature with no heat mats and ive had no casualties so i guess you can do the same


----------



## davus (Aug 13, 2004)

ok cheers m8


----------



## alex (Aug 13, 2004)

I kept my widow in a petbox with a few sticks.


----------



## Brian S (Aug 13, 2004)

I used to keep widows myself. They can be kept in about anything. I always kept them on the dry side.


----------



## davus (Aug 15, 2004)

is lighting necessary or will natural light be ok?


----------



## Brian S (Aug 15, 2004)

Natural lighting is just fine


----------



## davus (Aug 16, 2004)

thanks for that brian


----------



## SocialistDray (Aug 19, 2004)

widows love anything. the more the better. my "coolest" setup. is a skull and crossbones ina 10 gallon. height more than length. I use the nice bulbs for reptiles from petco mart. anywhere really. its a little to hard for natural light. they adapt to anything. and thye dont mind adapting. its fun for them i believe. i handle my widows. but as he said. dont mess with them when they have eggsacs. or when a male is present.dont forget about them either. the more u look at them. the more they feel safer around you and they probably know your not gonna hurt them. and if they do bite. its usually dry. theyre beautiful spider. the MAIN collection in my house.


----------



## Stormcrow (Aug 20, 2004)

Glad to have another Latrodectus enthusiast join us. Though I am not sure the Widow dry bites frequently yet I could be wrong as there is no scientific evidence that I know of. But hey, JPD was dry bitten by a Red Widow. 

BTW, welcome aboard Dray!


----------



## SocialistDray (Aug 20, 2004)

*thx*

nice to know im not the only " dork " out there keep in touch... keep the spiders thriving


----------



## conway (Aug 20, 2004)

were not "dorks" lol, were not ignorant bastard boys and girls who go Eeeeeew thats gross...grr makes ya wanna give em a punch!


----------



## Invert Nerd (Aug 20, 2004)

im a nerd ,and damn proud of it, but i still can kick some ass


----------



## Horrido (Aug 21, 2004)

Mine's sitting in an old spice bottle.  Not very large, but she seems happy.  She gets pet store crickets, and bugs I catch in the house or the yard.  I've had my "ladies" live up to 2.5 years or more.

We should hold either a size or molting challenge to see who can rear the biggest widow.


----------



## Stormcrow (Aug 22, 2004)

I have freshly hatched *L.hesperus* 'lings, am ready to go... muahahahaha!


----------



## Horrido (Aug 22, 2004)

LOL!  I saw _L. hesperus_ and thought _Lygus hesperus_. lol  I couldn't figure out why you were rearing lygus bugs for your black widow  :?, THAT'S not gonna make her happy!  Please refrain from confusing the six-legged folks, society is difficult for us as it is   . lol


So, what do you keep your black widow in so that you aren't worried about little black widow 'lings migrating throughout your residence?  When I discovered that widows can hold sperm through a molt and found an eggcase in there, she got tossed in the fridge to chill and the case removed shortly thereafter.    Man, was she nasty about that.


----------



## Stormcrow (Aug 22, 2004)

I keep them in various snap top disposable storage  containers and vials with ventilation holes punched in by large sewing needles. But you want ones that snap tightly or the 'lings will find a means of escape.

Interesting facts - Western Black Widow (L.hesperus) produces North America's largest female Widow spiders but the Southern Black Widow (L.mactans) are commonly considered North America's most venomous Widow species.


----------



## Horrido (Aug 22, 2004)

So, you're saying when I want to really impress people visually, juggle the Western species, but for those in the know, the Southern?

Working out in the field, we've come across some relatively different looking black widows.  A few will have red markings down the crests of their backs.  Are they sub-species or just color variations for the standard?

And, has the pic of the widow/redback/whatever it was with the snake been posted here (I assume it has)?


----------



## Stormcrow (Aug 23, 2004)

No, absolutely not, any species of Latrodectus make fine pets. For example, the Northern Black Widow (L.variolus) to quote from Spider Bob's (AKA arachnologist Dr. Robert Gale Breene III) manual _Widow Spiders of North America,_ "The legs and cephalothorax of female L.variolus are black (with exceptions, as always). Red Spots run down the midline of the dorsal abdomen. Three pairs of white stripes adorn each side of the abdomen, and many have a thin white circle near the front of the dorsal abdomen. The hourglass is incomplete, with a split in the middle." Probably the most beautiful and definitely most colorful Black Widow species in North America though is far less notorious than the Western and Southern Black Widows. 

Than you have the Brown Widow (L.geometricus), comes in stunning array of colors based in browns, yellows, and greys. Even specimens with banded legs. And there is the Red Widow (L.bishopi), which I simply consider North America's most dazzling true spider and amongst the world's most beautiful. Every species of Latrodectus stirs genuine interest in me. The North American species have no official subspecies just geographical morphs, both L.hesperus and L.mactans can have similar color traits as L.variolus by way of dorsal markings in adult specimens too. There is no in the know as all species of Widow can pack a wallop of neurotoxins, people do well to respect, and the only remarkable significance is via medical studies in bite cases. Cheers!


----------



## Kugellager (Aug 25, 2004)

L.hesperus can have quite a bit of variation in its mature female color patterns from solid black with the red hourglass to black with extra red stripes or spots on the dorsal surface to reddish brown with solid colors and stripes or no stripes.  Some of my large mature females from New Mexico even get wierd random whitish striping at the front of the dorsal surface...its quite weird looking but not that uncommon from what I have seen.

I keep all on mine in 32oz/.95L Mayonaise jars with a few twigs and some substrate for web holding points.  I put a few drops of water in about once a month and feed one cricket every 2-3 weeks. They are very easy to care for.

John


----------



## caligulathegod (Aug 26, 2004)

Here's my enclosures.  I took a plastic case I got from a hobby store, not unlike a Beanie Baby case except that the lid is maybe a couple inches wide, and hotglued a twisty vine/stick I got from the same craft store.  She seems to really dig it.She climbed right out of her vial and started making house immediately.


----------



## alex (Aug 26, 2004)

Very nice tank you have! I keep my widow in a small kritter keeper, but soon I'll build a tank out of glass.


----------



## caligulathegod (Aug 26, 2004)

Just out of curiosity, anyone know for sure what kind of Widow I have there?  It has the broken red hourglass with no spots anywhere else (dorsal or lateral sides).  It was collected in New Mexico.  I know it's not _L mactans,_ but I'm seeing conflicting info on whether she's a _L variolus_ or _L hesperus_.


----------



## mactans (Aug 26, 2004)

It is the Western Black Widow (L.hesperus). L.variolus and L.mactans occurs only as far west as eastern Texas, Oklahoma, and Kansas. Another easier way to identify the North American *Black* Widow species is through their eggsacs. You definitely have a Western because a migratory specimen representing the other two species would have very miniscule survival rate and likely be deprived of any mating opportunities. Slim chances but not entirely impossible.


----------



## Kugellager (Aug 26, 2004)

Another note that I forgot to mention in my last post that Stormcrow/mactans reminded me of is that the hourglass can vary to the extent of how much the two triangles touch to make an hourglass or are separated.  This varies significantly in different individuals through a species.  The best way I know how to differentiate the species with all the black ones is the egg sac method which has already been mentioned.

John
];')


----------



## mactans (Aug 26, 2004)

Here is a description of North American Black Widow eggsacs,

Southern Black Widow (L.mactans): _Gray and nearly spherical. A distinct nipple adorns the top. Egg count ranges between 200-250. But may range from under a 100 to over a 1,000 depending on many factors. The most important is probably nutritional status. Eggsac diameter ranges from 10mm to 13mm. The texture is paper-like and nearly opaque. Infertile eggsacs made by unmated females are often misshapen and translucent._

Western Black Widow (L.hesperus): _Often pear-shaped and flat-edged at the top. Occassionally the eggsac has a dull point. They are about 13 to 14mm in height and 10 or 12mm in diameter. Texture is tough and paper-like with a lighter tan or creamy yellow color. The average number of eggs laid per an eggsac is usually right around 200, but variation can be high. Many females may produce well under a hundred eggs at a time, or other times may approach four figures._

Northern Black Widow (L.variolus): _Often pear-shaped and usually flat-edged at the top. Eggsacs are light tan, often with a hint of gray. 13 to 14mm in height and 10 or 12mm in diameter. The According to Kaston the main number of eggs laid per an eggsac were 164, but variation is high._

All pertinent information was paraphrased or directly quoted from *Widow Spiders of North America,* written by arachnologist Dr. Robert Gale Breene III (aka Spider Bob), © Copyright the *American Tarantula Society* 1997, 2000. Available at the ATS shop here.


----------



## caligulathegod (Aug 26, 2004)

It had an egg sack but I took it out right away and don't recall what it looked like in detail.  Seems like it was spherical, but when she lays her next one I'll take a picture of it.


----------



## mactans (Aug 27, 2004)

Excellent idea, pleased to see more Widow enthusiasts participating in this forum. They make phenomenal pets, wish more foreign species were available. 

The manual guide I quoted from, also has hourglass variations on all three species (adapted from Kaston 1970), not to be used as an identification key of course because these differing markings are quite numerous but to show readers the diversity. I can recall a recent person stating he thought Widows were losing their hourglass due to evolution, nothing can be further from the truth, he simply witnessed how diverse this characteristic trait can be. A great source.


----------



## davus (Aug 27, 2004)

thanks for the info guys..its very helpfull  ....just need to find a live widow now as i thought i had one sorted but the person involved hasn't returned my mails


----------



## caligulathegod (Sep 11, 2004)

She laid her eggsac.  I'd say it is a creamy tan.  The descriptions between the differences between the Western and Northern are still pretty obscure, but considering the location...

Anyway, I said I'd post her eggsac.


----------



## alex (Sep 12, 2004)

Congrats to the eggsac.


----------



## giraldo (Sep 20, 2004)

whats the best enclusere for slings? They're now about 4mm


----------



## alex (Sep 20, 2004)

Small plastic jars, like them you get on the pizzeria.


----------



## Kugellager (Sep 20, 2004)

I used pill vials with a few pin holes in the lid.  You don't want the holes to be larger than pin holes or thaty may be able to escape.  If you have not seen the sligs yet they are VERY small. Put the egg sac in the vial BEFORE it hatches out.

Pretty easy to raise.  I usually let them cannibalize on another until there are 10-15 left then start feeding them pinhead crickets.

John
];')


----------



## Tarantula (Sep 22, 2004)

I keep all my widows on sand.. I had some trouble whit mould when I used peat but since I changed substrate to sand I havent had any problems..

Now I own 10 of them (four diffrent speices) and I like them alot! Im going to recive 5 tredecimguttatus slings soon to! I cant wait!

_Latrodectus hesperus_ adult female:


----------



## alex (Sep 22, 2004)

I'm getting a few too.

0.1.0 Latrodectus menavodi
0.0.5 Latrodectus tredecimguttatus


----------



## David Plankton (Sep 22, 2004)

Hi, new to this forum. Is there a species of widow native to Europe? :?


----------



## giraldo (Sep 22, 2004)

I have a few L. hasselti slings. There about 2 mm. So still pretty small.


----------



## El Johano (Sep 22, 2004)

David Plankton said:
			
		

> Hi, new to this forum. Is there a species of widow native to Europe? :?


Yes, Latrodectus tredecimguttatus.


----------



## David Plankton (Sep 22, 2004)

Thought so, cheers!


----------

