# can you become immune to centipede venom?



## ruckaisawesome (Jul 3, 2013)

If I were to get a baby scolopendra subspinipes and let it inject venom into me everyday till it becomes fully grown, will I become immune to the venom, 
develop an allergic reaction, or no change at all?


----------



## cantthinkofone (Jul 3, 2013)

You will indefinitely become extremely sensitive to the venom, risk death and alergic reactions. Also your life will be hell for two years and I mean freaking hell. Is this a joke or are you new to pedes? I've never heard of a question like this

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Creepypasta (Jul 3, 2013)

Even if you did magically build an immunity, the stories I've read and heard about the absolute agony a bite inflicts could not possibly be worth it.


----------



## cantthinkofone (Jul 3, 2013)

This has to be a troll. Im not trying to be mean but this question has an obvious answer. Also buying a baby MEDICALLY SIGNIFIGANT centipede and letting it BITE you for years. Buying a baby is hard enough. I am not taking this question seriously.


----------



## ruckaisawesome (Jul 3, 2013)

yea...im actually not joking. Im not new with pedes, I made quite a few feeding and handling vids on youtube. I asked because I heard many cases where herpetologists such as bill haust who became resistent to snake venom after injecting himself over a long period. I was wondering if that applies to arachnids as well.

btw, why won't it work? what's so different between centipede venom and snake venom?


----------



## nepenthes (Jul 3, 2013)

The chemical make up of the venom is probably different. I'm not familiar with the specifics, but those guys who are injecting them selves with venom are also discredited as nut jobs half the time. If I started drinking my own Urine and was convinced with out a doubt that it cured cancer, would any one believe me? Maybe, but every one else will think I'm crazy.

If you really want to find out, do it. Perhaps you will find Centipede venom to be the new api-therapy (intentionally stinging your selves with honey bees).


----------



## ruckaisawesome (Jul 3, 2013)

bill haast is one of the most respected herpetologist and there's scientific evidence that it works.... at least for snake venom. I think I will try it but i'll probabily research a bit more first.


----------



## cantthinkofone (Jul 3, 2013)

Im sorry for my previous reaction but its a horrible idea. I know many breeders and keepers of these things and after so many bites most of them developed a sensitivity and sometimes an allergy. The only couple that didn't were the ones that have never been bit. From a medical standpoint this is HORRIBLE idea. Centipede venom is NOTHING LIKE SNAKE VENOM. Never think about trying this. It might make you the only death by pede.


----------



## Formerphobe (Jul 3, 2013)

An immunologist could probably give you better information on this.  Immunotherapy is based on introduction of regular small, but gradually increasing amounts of venom/allergen.  Immunotherapy for environmental allergens, severe reaction to specific Hymenoptera sp venom, etc works for some people, not for others.   As previously stated, regular exposure could increase one's sensitivity to the point that any exposure could be life threatening or fatal.  Should NEVER be attempted without medical supervision.  Formulation of a medically 'safe/stable' centipede serum will not be cost effective.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## ruckaisawesome (Jul 3, 2013)

ah...ok, I think I'll hold off attempting it then.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Silberrücken (Jul 3, 2013)

ruckaisawesome said:


> ah...ok, I think I'll hold off attempting it then.


A wise decision. ^


----------



## MarkmD (Jul 3, 2013)

Yeah it's a very good idea NOT to ATTEMPT it, i wont say anymore as I'm sure you know that now.


----------



## Bill S (Jul 3, 2013)

I'll add a couple thoughts to this thread just because I've had some experience with snake venoms (and that was offered as a parallel idea by the original poster).  As someone above stated, talk with an immunologist about this, but be sure to have some information at hand regarding the make-up of centipede venom.  (The average immunologist will not know what centipede venom consists of.)  Trying to get useful information on a potentially dangerous topic like this is difficult enough going through professional channels.  If you are going to bet your life and health on information you get from hobbyists in a forum like this you're crazy.  

That said, I'm one of those guys who has been bitten enough times by rattlesnakes that I generally do not use antivenom.  But...  immunity even in something like that is of limited use.  Yes, you can develop antibodies to at least some kinds of venoms (and I suspect centipede venom is no exception).  But unless the bite frequency is pretty high, that may not be enough to protect you.  Once your immune system learns to develop antibodies to something, it will start producing those antibodies upon re-exposure.  But it will only keep producing antibodies for a relatively short period of time.  Meaning if a year goes by between exposures, there will be no antibodies present in the blood when you get exposed again.  Your body will immediately start producing antibodies upon exposure, but it can take up to three days for it to kick into full gear.  For some types of envenomation, you could be dead before your body is able to produce enough antibodies to be effective.  In my case (with rattlesnakes) I will get some pretty good swelling, sometimes all the way up my arm, before everything stabilizes.  In the case of centipede bites you would get excruciating pain for maybe a day (or three) before the antibodies were at full operating strength.  And depending on the species, the nature of the bite, and your own general health at the time - it might get worse.

The flip side, though, is that if you follow the procedure that Bill Haast did, you might be able to maintain active antibodies all the time.  That would be through frequent CONTROLLED doses of venom.  (Bites are unpredictable, so "controlled" means having clean venom extracted from centipedes and injecting dilute, sterile venom solutions of known strength on a regular schedule.)  This might not protect you from the initial pain reactions, but could offer some protection against serious medical impact.

Hopefully this will give you something to start with.

Reactions: Like 3


----------



## cantthinkofone (Jul 3, 2013)

Snake venoms can also sometimes painless. Centipede venom is painful as hell. So even attempting this you COULD develope thoughts of suicide. People that suffer can produce thoughts of ending it and believe me with centipede bite especially a S. Subspinipes you will want someone to end it for you. Even someone with experience would probably advise against this. Please for the love of god do not attempt this.


----------



## ruckaisawesome (Jul 3, 2013)

Bill S said:


> Once your immune system learns to develop antibodies to something, it will start producing those antibodies upon re-exposure.  But it will only keep producing antibodies for a relatively short period of time.  Meaning if a year goes by between exposures, there will be no antibodies present in the blood when you get exposed again.


so once you stop, you lose all the antibodies you built up? That's a shame. 

Dont worry, Im not going to attempt this anymore.


----------



## Greenjewls (Jul 4, 2013)

ruckaisawesome said:


> so once you stop, you lose all the antibodies you built up? That's a shame.
> 
> Dont worry, Im not going to attempt this anymore.


Yeah, it is a shame.  I get stung by scorpions a lot in the summer, and they get less and less irritating every time.  Then I don't get stung until the next summer and the first sting is full strength again. Sucks!


----------



## Bill S (Jul 4, 2013)

ruckaisawesome said:


> so once you stop, you lose all the antibodies you built up? That's a shame.


Yes, it is.  The time factor will be different for different kinds of antigens.  A single immunization against smallpox lasts a lifetime.  Rabies immunity last maybe three years.  (I get rabies vaccinations, and they monitor the antibodies in my blood so they know when to give the next vaccination.)  Other antigens might produce much shorter immune times.  In the case of both smallpox and rabies the three day wait for full antibody production to kick in isn't a problem.  In the case of Greenjewls scorpions - the active antibody level drops off after a few months of no exposure, but his body's ability to produce new antibodies is intact.  Which is why the first stings of the year are painful (the antibodies kick in three days after the first sting - not good enough to be helpful at the time of the sting).

And touching on Cantthinkofone's comment about painless snake bite - he's completely correct.  I've only had one painful bite (but that one was memorable).


----------



## nepenthes (Jul 4, 2013)

Thanks for filling me in Bill S, it is an interesting subject. And I am glad you brought some substance to the table! I'm curious how one would go about extracting Centipede venom any ways? I'm thinking a rubber tube of some sort... I have seen Academic Journals that studied centipede venom if any one would like to see them (OP in mind), PM me.


----------



## cantthinkofone (Jul 4, 2013)

I'm just going to add in here extraction could be carried out by making the pede bit a seran wrapped glass and have only one fang injecting into the jar. Also this is a horrid idea because I something went wrong there is no cure. And it helps medical wise but nothing helps the pain. A good friend of mine wa bitten repeatedly by S. heros and was shipped to the hospital. The morphine didn't even cure the pain. Nothing they gave him numbed the pain. The pain is vicious and I would rather be stung by an emp 37 times then take one bite from a pede


----------



## Greenjewls (Jul 8, 2013)

cantthinkofone said:


> I'm just going to add in here extraction could be carried out by making the pede bit a seran wrapped glass and have only one fang injecting into the jar. Also this is a horrid idea because I something went wrong there is no cure. And it helps medical wise but nothing helps the pain. A good friend of mine wa bitten repeatedly by S. heros and was shipped to the hospital. The morphine didn't even cure the pain. Nothing they gave him numbed the pain. The pain is vicious and I would rather be stung by an emp 37 times then take one bite from a pede


There's a video on youtube of a guy letting a S. heros literally EAT his finger.  Obviously it didn't inject any venom (probably thought it had found a dead mammal) but that guy has no idea how differently it would have turned out if it had seen him as a threat and dosed him...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpH97UV69Vs

[video=youtube;SpH97UV69Vs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpH97UV69Vs[/video]


----------



## Gandalf4199 (Jul 28, 2013)

i am from China, in my country,  the scolopendra(boiling its body to make soup) is used as medicine hundreds of years ago! , and it is still taken by patients nowadays.


----------



## Smokehound714 (Jul 28, 2013)

Even the smaller species of centipede like the stone centipedes have a VERY unpleasant venom.

  I was bit by a rather large specimen, around 4 inches. My whole arm had the same exact feeling you get when you hit your funny bone, and nausea.  Horrible combo.


----------



## The Snark (Jul 28, 2013)

Let's set some things straight. There is no such thing as immunity from repeated exposures to a venom. Resistance, yes, to varying degrees. HOWEVER, there is neither immunity nor resistance to shock as anaphylactic, should it be triggered. As example, one of the worlds foremost cobra handlers who had been tagged numerous times died last year from anaphylaxis from a bite. He went into respiratory arrest within a minute of the bite and the constriction/contraction was so severe his airway could not be opened, all the way down to the bronchi. 

As for letting a pede sting you, even if you do develop a resistance you risk Rhabdomyolysis and potential malignant/persistent renal hypertrophy. IE, you are shrugging off the nasty pain and immediate effects as your kidneys slowly become Playdough(tm) and your bones turn to jelly.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## AvatarOfShibby (Jul 28, 2013)

I got bit by one of the random ones that roam Hawaii, and I wouldn't put myself through that kind of stuff.  On a side note this made me think of the movie Princess Bride when I read the topic.


----------



## lancej (Jul 28, 2013)

Another thing that no one has touched on is the cost of having an immunologist do these injections.  It is very expensive, and I highly doubt that health insurance would cover it.


----------



## Spepper (Jul 28, 2013)

It's a TERRIBLE idea all over.  No one should do it.  From what I've read here, the only exception would be if they fancied becoming the world's first known centipede-killed human.  Case and point.  No one in their RIGHT MIND would do it, and if they do want to be killed by a centipede... then they obviously aren't in their right mind.


----------



## Willem (Jul 28, 2013)

Keeping in mind what Bill S said, and also that you have already abandoned the idea...

EDIT: Also what The Snark said.

The idea in it's self is quite interesting from a scientific standpoint: In a closed and controlled environment (i.e. knowing exactly what the venom is composed of and having all of your medical records like allergies etc), isolating a relatively pure sample, diluting that and then hypothesizing an amount to be injected daily for the purpose of attaining immunity while continuously taking blood/urine/lymph samples and analyzing them.... May make for a very interesting research paper!

This is of course if you don't develop an allergy and die on the second or third injection..... or as Canthinkofone said end up biting a barrel to escape the pain...

Still i'm sure you would be one of the first (if not the first) to attempt this with a centipede.


----------



## Biollantefan54 (Jul 28, 2013)

That is a really interesting idea though. Couldn't you not develop an allergy if you took small enough dosages each time, that way you wouldn't have to much venom in your system to do a lot of damage and by the time you get enough to do damage, your body will have lots of antibodies built up form doing it slowly day to day? Just a thought.


----------



## Willem (Jul 28, 2013)

Biollantefan54 said:


> That is a really interesting idea though. Couldn't you not develop an allergy if you took small enough dosages each time, that way you wouldn't have to much venom in your system to do a lot of damage and by the time you get enough to do damage, your body will have lots of antibodies built up form doing it slowly day to day? Just a thought.


It's actually quite complicated, it depends largely on your individual immune system, irrelevant of the dose multiple time delayed injections have a good chance of triggering anaphylaxis aswell. It depends on how your body responds: Hypersensitivity or resistance. (VERY simplified)

Also look carefully again at what The Snark said..... Those things in the second paragraph aren't fun at all


----------



## Biollantefan54 (Jul 28, 2013)

I overlooked the Playdough™ kidneys and jelly bones lol, so no matter how much you inject at specified time intervals, you will automatically slowly get Playdough™ kidneys and jelly bones?


----------



## cantthinkofone (Jul 28, 2013)

Yes the venom can screw those up to that extent.


----------



## melijoc (Jul 29, 2013)

You would probably need an expert to watch over this type of experiment. I dont see why it shouldnt work


----------



## The Snark (Jul 29, 2013)

This thread has extended into the realm of medical expertise and experimentation that could lead to jeopardizing AB.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Silberrücken (Jul 29, 2013)

The Snark said:


> This thread has extended into the realm of medical expertise and experimentation that could lead to jeopardizing AB.


I agree with you, The Snark. 100%.


----------



## Willem (Jul 29, 2013)

The Snark said:


> This thread has extended into the realm of medical expertise and experimentation that could lead to jeopardizing AB.


My apologies, I did not put enough emphasis on the theoretical (pipe dream) nature of my previous statement. To clarify: This is indeed (as many others have stated before me) a *HORRIBLE* idea and should not be attempted by anyone.


----------



## Greenjewls (Jul 30, 2013)

I'm really not worried about anyone trying this twice. Once, maybe. Anyways, what would be the advantage of being immune to Scolopendra venom? Are you really going to go out and grab them bare-handed if you are immune? They will still punch huge holes in you that are likely to get infected. It's a stupid idea but I think it's a cool theoretical inquiry.


----------

