# Phoneutria.fera escaped



## pjs001 (Jan 12, 2015)

Need for help! An adult female escaped in my bedroom,and I don't know where she is. Any better way to catch her than wait?
Thanks.


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## jbm150 (Jan 12, 2015)

Wow, of all the species to lose in your bedroom. I think I would just cut my losses and burn my house down in this case.  Best of luck and I'll be looking forward to updates.

Seriously though, be careful

Reactions: Like 3


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## freedumbdclxvi (Jan 12, 2015)

How did she escape?


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## Misty Day (Jan 12, 2015)

I'm sensing a troll alert on this, due to the lack of posts by the OP, but if you're not a troll, as Liam Neeson would say,

 "I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you are looking for ransom, I can tell you I don't have money. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills; skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for spiders like you. If you show up without biting me , that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will catch you in a deli cup and put you back in your enclosure."

Reactions: Like 4 | Funny 1


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## The Snark (Jan 12, 2015)

Why ask us? 1. You had no plans made in case this was to happen? 2. If it escaped into your bedroom is can escape into your house. 3. If it is in your house you remove it by using diligent effort, regardless how difficult and time consuming or you live with it. 
Your other option is to fumigate your house. Not spray insecticide, fumigate. Seal all doors and windows and have a pest control company inject methyl bromide or equivalent. Then wait the required 3 to 7 days.
This is no brainer territory. Play with fire and ask what to do when it gets out of control?

Reactions: Like 6


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## klawfran3 (Jan 12, 2015)

I second snark on this. If you don't manage to catch it or end it soon and it bites someone, this hobby is going to get some attention, and I guarantee some bans will be in order.

I'm pretty sure this is a troll thread too. I only know of one breeder who sold these guys back in the 2000's and he only sold them to people he KNEW would take care of them.

Fumigate your house and rethink your pet choices. Of all the spiders you could let loose it had to be this one.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Bill Myers (Jan 12, 2015)

Geez, I hope this is a joke thread, but if not, here's what I would do:

Let's see...  You're from Beijing, China.  The  weather forecast says that the lows are in the 20's Fahrenheit...

First thing, turn off the heat to your bedroom.  

Then, set up an infrared ceramic heat lamp in the room.  

Put a hide for your spider under the infrared heat lamp.  

Turn off your lights in the bedroom, seal any gaps under the bedroom door, and then move to another room (preferably, in another house miles away).  

Come back after about 24 hours and check the hide for your spider.  If it's not there, go away and come back the next day.  

If it's still not there, I'd do what jbm150 suggested:  Just cut your losses and burn your house down.  End of story


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## The Snark (Jan 12, 2015)

Or maybe join one of those clubs? You know, the crowd into Russian Roulette. Invite them all to stay there and... . 
Bill Meyers. Won't quite work. It might hibernate. Just modify your plan slightly. Position heat lamp where it will eventually burn down the house.
This would also be an excellent time to get into those experiements that would get you kicked out of college. Make your own thermite, nitroglycerin, TNT, fulminating mercury, ammonium nitrate, the effects of methyl mercaptan, etc. OOPS. Forgot ammonium iodide. Really fun stuff.


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## Bill Myers (Jan 12, 2015)

The Snark said:


> Or maybe join one of those clubs? You know, the crowd into Russian Roulette. Invite them all to stay there and... .
> Bill Meyers. Won't quite work. It might hibernate. Just modify your plan slightly. Position heat lamp where it will eventually burn down the house.
> This would also be an excellent time to get into those experiements that would get you kicked out of college. Make your own thermite, nitroglycerin, TNT, fulminating mercury, ammonium nitrate, the effects of methyl mercaptan, etc.


I like the way you think, my friend.  Ah, yes.  All the fun stuff we could experiment with back in my day...  Back before everyone got so dang uptight about boys being boys and started banning even the smallest of firecrackers.  (I'm 52, BTW).

Nope.  No more fun for the kids.

Cheers


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## The Snark (Jan 12, 2015)

Bill Myers said:


> I like the way you think, my friend.  Ah, yes.  All the fun stuff we could experiment with back in my day...  Back before everyone got so dang uptight about boys being boys and started banning even the smallest of firecrackers.  (I'm 52, BTW).
> 
> Nope.  No more fun for the kids.
> 
> Cheers


Not around here. I mentioned some of my fun days to a friend. A couple of weeks later he calls up: 'I just bought 50kg of nitric acid, 94%, 50kg of sulphuric acid, 98%, and 500 rolls of toilet paper. Now what?"
Of course I suggested telling his wife and kids to move out. Just like they had a phoneutria on the loose!
I wonder. Having 500 rolls of nitrated toilet paper, TNtp as we called it, or a P Fera on the loose in the house. Which would you prefer?


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## pjs001 (Jan 13, 2015)

freedumbdclxvi said:


> How did she escape?


I give too big opening for her, and she is not as big as looks, so it just happened.

---------- Post added 01-13-2015 at 08:58 PM ----------

Needn't to burn the house, actually it's not so danger. See that:
"Throughout several years Bucaretchi and coworkers studied effects of arthropod venoms on humans, including that of Phoneutria: from a clinical-epidemiological study summarising 422 cases of patients (9 months to 99 years old) bitten by Phoneutria ssp. (data collected from January 1984 to December 1996) they report that 75.2 % were bitten in limbs (feet 40.9%, hands 34.3%). Most patients presented only local complaints, mainly pain and edema. Patients were classified due to their symptoms as presenting mild (89.8%), moderate (8.5%) or severe (0.5%) envenomation. Few patients (1.2 %) did not present signs of envenomation at all. The severe envenomations were only confirmed in two children (9 months and 3 years old). Both developed acute pulmonary edema, and the older died 9 hours after the accident. Patients older than 70 years, had a significantly higher frequency of moderate envenomations compared to the 10-70 year old patients. Groups with the highest risk are therefore children under 10 years and patients older than 70 years. Only 2.3% of the patients (two cases classified as severe and eight as moderate, eight of them in children) were treated with i.v. antiarachnid antivenom. In conclusion, accidents involving the genus Phoneutria are common but cases of systemic envenomation in adults are very unusual (Bucaretchi et al. 2000). Until 2008, ten deaths were attributed to Phoneutria spiders in Brazil, but in only two of these cases were sufficient details provided to allow comparison with other series of patients (Bucaretchi et al. 2008)."


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## freedumbdclxvi (Jan 13, 2015)

Gave her too big of a have as far as in the enclosure itself?  Wow.  This species requires security for the well being of all, including the spider.  I read the same info you did, too, but that doesn't mean its bite is something to be ho hum about, nor does it mean your security qnd bite protocol cam be relaxed.  Do you have access to antivenom?  I made sure that it was both local and affordable when I decided to keep them.


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## Venom (Jan 13, 2015)

I seriously doubt residents of Beijing have any access to this species. It was hard work to get Phoneutria available even to expert keepers here in the US...so how on earth would a random uninitiate know how to get P. fera without the connections that come from being involved in the hobby online? 

But, if it IS true...., two things: #1.) He is in China, and his accidents won't have repercussions on the US hobby. #2.) He is irresponsible, and deserves what he gets.


Don't feed trolls!

Reactions: Like 1


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## The Snark (Jan 13, 2015)

Venom said:


> I seriously doubt residents of Beijing have any access to this species. It was hard work to get Phoneutria available even to expert keepers here in the US...so how on earth would a random uninitiate know how to get P. fera without the connections that come from being involved in the hobby online?
> 
> But, if it IS true...., two things: #1.) He is in China, and his accidents won't have repercussions on the US hobby. #2.) He is irresponsible, and deserves what he gets.
> 
> ...


I suppose the flip side of the coin should be mentioned. In China you can buy anything with the right connections. How many black rhino horns and adolescent virgins do you want with that order? And of course, since it is also the land of ultimate piracy and copying the rhino horns might be yak stable sweepings and those virgin verification crotch pictures all appear to be of the same girl who looks suspiciously like a 20+ year old college student. Your Phoneutria might just be a dolomedes someone spent hours on with minute paint brushes. 

Awesome copying: I watched a guy take a white furball pure mutt and over the course of two days turn it into a pedigree Samoyed with a pair of scissors and the artful dexterity and ingenuity of DaVinci.


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## Misty Day (Jan 15, 2015)

If you're seriously saying that a phoneutria escaped in your house isn't dangerous you really need to read a book and not believe everything you see on the internet.


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## paassatt (Jan 15, 2015)

freedumbdclxvi said:


> Gave her too big of a have as far as in the enclosure itself?  Wow.  This species requires security for the well being of all, including the spider.  I read the same info you did, too, but that doesn't mean its bite is something to be ho hum about, nor does it mean your security qnd bite protocol cam be relaxed.  Do you have access to antivenom?  I made sure that it was both local and affordable when I decided to keep them.


How did you go about finding out if it was local to you?


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## freedumbdclxvi (Jan 15, 2015)

paassatt said:


> How did you go about finding out if it was local to you?


I live an hour away from VenomOne in Miami.   I contacted them, and they keep it in stock.  I then took the drug name and classification of said antivenin, submitted it to my insurance and found it is covered by my policy.

---------- Post added 01-15-2015 at 11:19 AM ----------




Tcks123 said:


> If you're seriously saying that a phoneutria escaped in your house isn't dangerous you really need to read a book and not believe everything you see on the internet.


In this specific case, the numbers he listed do in fact come from studies of Phoneutria bites, specifically nigreventer and fera if I recall.  However, he downplays the risks *and* omits that the study does *not* conclude the bites aren't dangerous.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Venom (Jan 15, 2015)

freedumbdclxvi said:


> I live an hour away from VenomOne in Miami.   I contacted them, and they keep it in stock.  I then took the drug name and classification of said antivenin, submitted it to my insurance and found it is covered by my policy.




That's very impressive that you did so much homework to keep yourself safe. Muy responsible!! :clap:

Reactions: Like 1


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## freedumbdclxvi (Jan 15, 2015)

Figured that, if I am going to keep a potentially lethal venomous animal, I best have myself covered as best I can.  I think that's pretty much what *anyone* should do when you're keeping a hot species
  Last thing you want is antivenom on the other side of the country *and* footing the entire cost of however many doses you need.

Reactions: Like 1


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## The Snark (Jan 15, 2015)

freedumbdclxvi said:


> I live an hour away from VenomOne in Miami.   I contacted them, and they keep it in stock.  I then took the drug name and classification of said antivenin, submitted it to my insurance and found it is covered by my policy.




That is something often overlooked. Drugs and accompanying therapeutic treatments can be phenomenally expensive. Some antivenins could bankrupt a person if it isn't covered by insurance.

Reactions: Like 1


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## The Snark (Jan 16, 2015)

Not meaning to beat the horse to death but this is something all hot keepers should take into account. A friend post clinical death episode was on about $2500 of medication per day for 3 weeks. That tapered down to a little less than $400 per day for the rest of his life. It required VA and 3 insurance policies to cover most of the bills but not everything. He still coughed up about $500 a month out of pocket. Meds and related therapeutics can cost phenomenal amounts. The guy in Aus that was bitten repeatedly by a Latro racked up a $90,000 bill over a year of treatments.

Reactions: Like 1


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## freedumbdclxvi (Jan 16, 2015)

Dead or not, it's a horse that requires periodic beating.  Too many hot keepers seem to think "license and locked cage" are the only real obstacles to "overcome".  That's the "cheap and easy" part.  The mindset then goes to " I won't get bit" or "this is my protocol".  Not "is my insurance going to cover this, or can I still sell a damaged kidney to cover a fraction of the 'oops I didn't see that coming' mistake cost?"

Reactions: Like 1


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## Vinegaroonie (Jan 17, 2015)

That poor horse >.<

Reactions: Like 1


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## Misty Day (Jan 17, 2015)

Venom said:


> That's very impressive that you did so much homework to keep yourself safe. Muy responsible!! :clap:


+1, looks like you're not an impulse buyer wanting one of the most venomous spiders after all!


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## freedumbdclxvi (Jan 17, 2015)

These aren't species to buy on impulse.  As far as inverts go, in terms of potency, agility, climbing and speed, these are probably  the most dangerous ones to keep.  Other inverts may be more potent or slightly faster  or also able to climb smooth surfaces, but Phoneutria are pretty much the only ones to have all those qualities combined.


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## Misty Day (Jan 17, 2015)

freedumbdclxvi said:


> These aren't species to buy on impulse.  As far as inverts go, in terms of potency, agility, climbing and speed, these are probably  the most dangerous ones to keep.  Other inverts may be more potent or slightly faster  or also able to climb smooth surfaces, but Phoneutria are pretty much the only ones to have all those qualities combined.


I'm aware, I just thought that the OP was an impulse buyer.


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## freedumbdclxvi (Jan 17, 2015)

I figured.  I simply took the chance to reiterate exactly what makes them a species for only the most experienced keepers.


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