# prey too big for a snake?



## atreyu (Jan 9, 2016)

hello everyone!

i'd really like to hear your opinions on this, i'm a little worried... 

here's the deal, my very first and favorite snake, Atreyu, just ate a mouse that _may _have been too big for him. he's an adult corn snake, nine years old now, so i'm hoping he'd know better than to take something too large?
this mouse was considerably bigger than what he normally eats, and his scales stretched more than i've ever seen before, he looked like he was going to burst  
he's just sitting there soaking up some heat right now, he looks a little uncomfortable (if that's possible) but hasn't regurgitated the mouse or anything.
idk if i'm overreacting, but i really love this snake... i've had him since high school and i'd feel worse than microwaved shit if i did anything to harm him.

can anyone chime in on this? is my boy gonna be ok!?


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## G. pulchra (Jan 9, 2016)

An adult corn snake can easily consume a large mouse.  Just let him be


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## The Snark (Jan 10, 2016)

I guess the OP has never seen an egg eater snake in action. Body about 3/4 inch across. Chickens egg, ~2 inches. Gulp!

Reactions: Like 1


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## 14pokies (Jan 12, 2016)

The snake will be fine.. Don't mess with him untill the lump is gone.. 

Its better to feed small meals more frequently than one large meal..


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## pyro fiend (Jan 12, 2016)

14pokies said:


> The snake will be fine.. Don't mess with him untill the lump is gone..
> 
> Its better to feed small meals more frequently than one large meal..


i agree shell be fine, some girls who go off feed in our boid section get such a big meal you think the scales are gone pop off [not often only out girls who go on LONG fasts]

 as for second parts, this depends who you ask, and whats your goal for the animals..if its pet sure go small meals if you are the touchy feely keeper and need to hold your herps.. i myself am partial to larger meals. my way of feeding tho differs in my buddies collection then his way.. we split the collection 50/50 we both keep detailed papers, but we dont feed even close to the same time frame or the same sized pray, now i dont try to make an adult corn eat a large rat, but it can sometimes eat a rat on the small side or weanling rat[weanling are usually about ide of an xxl adult mouse]  but in my book a male is given smaller meals if its a boid as they dont need to be as big and i like my males ~12-18months for breeding as i feel i get better results, but if you ask my buddy males need large meals and should breed as soon as they hit required weight [ill use the ball pythons as my victom of this one the rule for males is they "should be" 600g and fm should be 1500]  

when it comes to juvie n fems he dont keep babies often but he feeds normal meals to hatchlings of all animals [pinkies mice to hatchlings then work up], and almost breedable and breedable fems "to get them to eat more" get smaller meals more often but they still leave bumps for 2-3 days.. i myself dont let colubrids stay on pinky mice long before moving to rat pinkies as it leavs a much bigger lump and disappears only a day later then the mouse. adults he gives breeder girls normal slightly lumped bellies, for me it depends on what were doing, if she just laid eggs[not on this sced all year tho mind you], or has been paired, nice large lumps, for a bp itd be a xl-xxl rat as aposed to his med to large rats he feeds, if shes not breeding this year she still gets a nice lump but not like she ate a Volkswagen shell get a large  rat gives her a nice lump... if shes being raised for breeding she gets larger meals inbetween the size of the freeders and the off season girls  i feed mine every week, he feeds his girls every 4-5 days depending what they ate... to me i feel my breeders are fatter, does it mnean more clutches on the breeder end? not quite but if shes one of those who gets chose to hatch her own babies or if she goes off feed we dont hafta worry about stressing her weight.. both of us have great and bad clutches, even if sisters pair with the same male, but no one is better then the other in egg production so depends who you are and what you like... i like a fat little snake, [this why i hate colubrids and prefer boids lmao]


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## 14pokies (Jan 12, 2016)

pyro fiend said:


> i agree shell be fine, some girls who go off feed in our boid section get such a big meal you think the scales are gone pop off [not often only out girls who go on LONG fasts]
> 
> as for second parts, this depends who you ask, and whats your goal for the animals..if its pet sure go small meals if you are the touchy feely keeper and need to hold your herps.. i myself am partial to larger meals. my way of feeding tho differs in my buddies collection then his way.. we split the collection 50/50 we both keep detailed papers, but we dont feed even close to the same time frame or the same sized pray, now i dont try to make an adult corn eat a large rat, but it can sometimes eat a rat on the small side or weanling rat[weanling are usually about ide of an xxl adult mouse]  but in my book a male is given smaller meals if its a boid as they dont need to be as big and i like my males ~12-18months for breeding as i feel i get better results, but if you ask my buddy males need large meals and should breed as soon as they hit required weight [ill use the ball pythons as my victom of this one the rule for males is they "should be" 600g and fm should be 1500]
> 
> when it comes to juvie n fems he dont keep babies often but he feeds normal meals to hatchlings of all animals [pinkies mice to hatchlings then work up], and almost breedable and breedable fems "to get them to eat more" get smaller meals more often but they still leave bumps for 2-3 days.. i myself dont let colubrids stay on pinky mice long before moving to rat pinkies as it leavs a much bigger lump and disappears only a day later then the mouse. adults he gives breeder girls normal slightly lumped bellies, for me it depends on what were doing, if she just laid eggs[not on this sced all year tho mind you], or has been paired, nice large lumps, for a bp itd be a xl-xxl rat as aposed to his med to large rats he feeds, if shes not breeding this year she still gets a nice lump but not like she ate a Volkswagen shell get a large  rat gives her a nice lump... if shes being raised for breeding she gets larger meals inbetween the size of the freeders and the off season girls  i feed mine every week, he feeds his girls every 4-5 days depending what they ate... to me i feel my breeders are fatter, does it mnean more clutches on the breeder end? not quite but if shes one of those who gets chose to hatch her own babies or if she goes off feed we dont hafta worry about stressing her weight.. both of us have great and bad clutches, even if sisters pair with the same male, but no one is better then the other in egg production so depends who you are and what you like... i like a fat little snake, [this why i hate colubrids and prefer boids lmao]


I find that feeding large meals keeps the snakes in a constant state of digestion So all the nutrients of the prey are converted and stored as fat. When fed smaller meals the snakes remain active building muscle burning fat and really using all the nutrients of the prey.

It takes longer to get snakes up to breeding size this way but i get better clutches/litters. Higher counts and bigger offspring. Its worth the extra year or two IMO. My goal isn't to produce morphs of any species so im usually not in a hurry.
Its the only way to reproduce boa constrictor constrictor along with yearly seasonal fasting that i start in there second year. It takes about 5 years to get Bcc heavy enough to breed but once they get there it pays.
I notice alot of indo pythons like scrubs whitelips and water pythons do well when kept lean. They put on weight in there 3rd or 4th year after they start reaching adult length. 

For just a pet either feeding regiment works i just got into the habit of offering smaller somewhat more frequent meals to my snakes when i started breeding BCC in the late 90s. It was easier and more cost effective to feed my collection what they were eating instead of filling my Rodent pro boxes with XXL rats.


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## pyro fiend (Jan 12, 2016)

14pokies said:


> I find that feeding large meals keeps the snakes in a constant state of digestion So all the nutrients of the prey are converted and stored as fat. When fed smaller meals the snakes remain active building muscle burning fat and really using all the nutrients of the prey.
> 
> It takes longer to get snakes up to breeding size this way but i get better clutches/litters. Higher counts and bigger offspring. Its worth the extra year or two IMO. My goal isn't to produce morphs of any species so im usually not in a hurry.
> Its the only way to reproduce boa constrictor constrictor along with yearly seasonal fasting that i start in there second year. It takes about 5 years to get Bcc heavy enough to breed but once they get there it pays.
> ...



i can respect that decision. but in 90+ deg temps i feel mine arnt always in digestion [tho a fm who wouldnt eat when protecting eggs nor a bit after i will admit i try to keep her full] they have a day or two of flat bellies, dont seem fatty [i have adopted some from breeders who dont have scales even touching ever.. lmao] it just depends on the snake as well, i ofcourse wont feed a male corn a small rat, but a fm who needs weight? yapsolutely! colubrids who take years to grow and tree dwellers are my personal exception i dont like to give a tree boa a lump too big, we actualy have an emerald who cant digest calcium so she gets chicken tits [literally lmao] but im carefull not to overdo it as you def dont want a snake falling off his perch.. i howeve rbreed my own rodents and so does he, you just gota know your animal i suppose ^_^ as some we have wont eat every week [our 4 and 5k monsters obviously dont get those offers lmao]

i dont feel either way provides more or less cluttches nore better/worse value of clutches they both seem acceptable so long as your not pumping them with 7 rats at once like iv seen some people do


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## 14pokies (Jan 12, 2016)

pyro fiend said:


> i can respect that decision. but in 90+ deg temps i feel mine arnt always in digestion [tho a fm who wouldnt eat when protecting eggs nor a bit after i will admit i try to keep her full] they have a day or two of flat bellies, dont seem fatty [i have adopted some from breeders who dont have scales even touching ever.. lmao] it just depends on the snake as well, i ofcourse wont feed a male corn a small rat, but a fm who needs weight? yapsolutely! colubrids who take years to grow and tree dwellers are my personal exception i dont like to give a tree boa a lump too big, we actualy have an emerald who cant digest calcium so she gets chicken tits [literally lmao] but im carefull not to overdo it as you def dont want a snake falling off his perch.. i howeve rbreed my own rodents and so does he, you just gota know your animal i suppose ^_^ as some we have wont eat every week [our 4 and 5k monsters obviously dont get those offers lmao]
> 
> i dont feel either way provides more or less cluttches nore better/worse value of clutches they both seem acceptable so long as your not pumping them with 7 rats at once like iv seen some people do


I think that in general our methods and goals are both similar they just sound different.. I aim for active snakes with a healthy weight not suasuages with forked tongues like you said you come across from other breeders sometimes.. Athletic males and females that look like they could go 4 or 5 months without a meal.. My females tend to look super empty after they lay though.. Alot of breeders would freak but i don't loose females.. I do notice larger clutches from 5-6 yr old first tiime females than snakes pushed to go at 3. 

Ya strictly arboreal snakes like GTPs and emeralds should have meals that show a very small bulge if any at all.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## pyro fiend (Jan 12, 2016)

14pokies said:


> Athletic males and females that look like they could go 4 or 5 months without a meal.. My females tend to look super empty after they lay though.. Alot of breeders would freak but i don't loose females.. I do notice larger clutches from 5-6 yr old first tiime females than snakes pushed to go at 3.
> 
> Ya strictly arboreal snakes like GTPs and emeralds should have meals that show a very small bulge if any at all.


i have a fm who will not eat after a successful pairing and will not eat till about 6months after her eggs hatch [even if you take her eggs from her its like she KNOWS]  and her breeding can be kinda hectic [but shes a pos yb, pastel pied so we kinda want clutches from her] in cases like this.. you kinda want a fatter snake...

as for larger clutches yes, i personally dont pair fm before 2.5k thats my rule of thumb i have about 60 monster fm in our collection [well his i found them and they are on my side of the caresheet] for that reason.. iv had 2kg fm give me 2 eggs.. but iv had 2.5k fm give me under 4 can the difference of 10-15ish fatty meals really make that difference?? i think its the age lol

agree on gtp and etb XD


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## 14pokies (Jan 12, 2016)

pyro fiend said:


> i have a fm who will not eat after a successful pairing and will not eat till about 6months after her eggs hatch [even if you take her eggs from her its like she KNOWS]  and her breeding can be kinda hectic [but shes a pos yb, pastel pied so we kinda want clutches from her] in cases like this.. you kinda want a fatter snake...
> 
> as for larger clutches yes, i personally dont pair fm before 2.5k thats my rule of thumb i have about 60 monster fm in our collection [well his i found them and they are on my side of the caresheet] for that reason.. iv had 2kg fm give me 2 eggs.. but iv had 2.5k fm give me under 4 can the difference of 10-15ish fatty meals really make that difference?? i think its the age lol
> 
> agree on gtp and etb XD


I agree age is a huge factor but heavy males tend to breed like crap..  Having heavy females is good but i think they should be bulked up in the last few months before you plan to cool and pair her.. Alot of breeders keepem super fat year round. 

The most important factor is like you said knowing your snakes! 

There are too many factors to say for sure what causes instances of low fertility. Age weight temps nutrients nature only god knows..

Reactions: Agree 1


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## The Snark (Jan 13, 2016)

Not sure if it's relevant but the pythons I've observed, the males when overfed go into a stupor with having a little nooky the last thing on their cataleptic minds.


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## pyro fiend (Jan 13, 2016)

The Snark said:


> Not sure if it's relevant but the pythons I've observed, the males when overfed go into a stupor with having a little nooky the last thing on their cataleptic minds.


ahahaha i think that does for almost all reptiles tho.. even my geckos iv had if they was a little too fat, id get little to no eggs [well no good eggs as fm lay the eggs anyways], same goes for my boas fat males made poor dads, but females need the extra weight and calcium for egg production, but males? seems like a waist lol [which may explain why most imports iv seen seem kinda on the thin side for my taste, but same with import fm's..but ofcourse if they find a monster 5kg+ fm its not going up for sale itl be pocketed or sold to highest bidder not just a normal dock shipment lmao]


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## 14pokies (Jan 14, 2016)

The Snark said:


> Not sure if it's relevant but the pythons I've observed, the males when overfed go into a stupor with having a little nooky the last thing on their cataleptic minds.


Absolutely same goes for boas...

Reactions: Agree 1


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