# T.blondi ( is it truly the largest tarantula?)



## Nightstalker47 (Feb 8, 2017)

Hello fellow hobbyists, 

I have always been very interested in the large fast growing species. So I've got plenty of the big new world terrestrial species such as : T.Stirmi, A .Geniculata, L.parahybana, L. Difficilis, N. Chromatus and P. Cancerides.

But one spider I don't own is the true T. Blondi because they are super expensive here in Canada and they are so similar to the stirmi. Do they really get any bigger? From what I've read it's the T. Blondi and T. Apophysis that get the biggest. Is there any truth to this? Is it worth buying at 350$ a sling? I have a 5 inch female stirmi thats grown like a weed and she's arguably the my favorite spider species in terms of growth and feeding response. So to all who have experienced within the genus I would love to hear if your stirmi got as big as your other theraphosa. 

Thanks and good day

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## KezyGLA (Feb 8, 2017)

I am not fond of Theraphosa, though IMO I think they all usually max the same. Apart from the recorded exeptions which have been monsters. Stirmi is underdog but would you pay the money for something that would most likely grow to the same size of your stirmi?

Reactions: Agree 4


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## Nightstalker47 (Feb 8, 2017)

Yeah I've continued to look around and some say they get bigger then T.Blondi, I used to watch some of Robc on YouTube and he had a 12 inch stirmi, wich he thought was blondi but wasn't. Anyway I wouldn't want to pay top dollar for blondi now that I see the only real difference is their hairs, apophysis is a different story since they are quite different in appearance. Thanks for your reply if anyone here has had theraphosa  mature under their care please chime in let's see what the most common sizes are.


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## Venom1080 (Feb 8, 2017)

id like to see a 12" T. blondi..  ive read that 9-10" is the norm.

Reactions: Agree 3 | Coffee 1


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## Nightstalker47 (Feb 8, 2017)

Venom1080 said:


> id like to see a 12" T. blondi..  ive read that 9-10" is the norm.


You and me both,


Venom1080 said:


> id like to see a 12" T. blondi..  ive read that 9-10" is the norm.


So for a common spider to hit 10 inches I don't think 12 is very far off. I for one belive that the size of your spider greatly depends on how often you feed it, and that it's living in a good environment, with minimu stress on the animal. My stirmi went from a sling to 5 inches in months and only 4 molts. But I feed her almost everyday, I've noticed this because I bought slings and had them a few months and they grew fast, I went to pick up some more a few months later and they hadn't grown at all, my slings were way bigger. I think it comes down to genetics and the care you provided.

T


Nightstalker47 said:


> You and me both,
> 
> So for a common spider to hit 10 inches I don't think 12 is very far off. I for one belive that the size of your spider greatly depends on how often you feed it, and that it's living in a good environment, with minimu stress on the animal. My stirmi went from a sling to 5 inches in months and only 4 molts. But I feed her almost everyday, I've noticed this because I bought slings and had them a few months and they grew fast, I went to pick up some more a few months later and they hadn't grown at all, my slings were way bigger. I think it comes down to genetics and the care you provided.


The slings in question were P. ornata and L. Parahybana

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## Venom1080 (Feb 8, 2017)

Nightstalker47 said:


> You and me both,
> 
> So for a common spider to hit 10 inches I don't think 12 is very far off. I for one belive that the size of your spider greatly depends on how often you feed it, and that it's living in a good environment, with minimu stress on the animal. My stirmi went from a sling to 5 inches in months and only 4 molts. But I feed her almost everyday, I've noticed this because I bought slings and had them a few months and they grew fast, I went to pick up some more a few months later and they hadn't grown at all, my slings were way bigger. I think it comes down to genetics and the care you provided.


the growth rate is determined by temps and feeding frequency, but the max size is not. not to mention gender also plays a huge role.

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## EulersK (Feb 8, 2017)

Nightstalker47 said:


> So for a common spider to hit 10 inches I don't think 12 is very far off.


I don't know, that's a pretty big jump. Two inches may not seem like a lot, but that equates to a full 20% larger specimen... and 10" is already considered a very large specimen. 

As an analogy to demonstrate what I'm saying, that would be like a six foot tall man saying that an extra foot taller wouldn't be a huge difference.

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## Nightstalker47 (Feb 8, 2017)

Venom1080 said:


> the growth rate is determined by temps and feeding frequency, but the max size is not. not to mention gender also plays a huge role.


And how can you be so sure that feeding doesn't influence the max size. Seems your contradicting yourself, so by that logic my spiderson max growth would not be influenced by how much I fed it? I disagree with you there, in order to grow the animal needs to absorb matter from his prey. So if I had two spiders of the same species and fed one more I can guarantee it would surpass the other in size. In fact I've been conducting this very experiment with a pair of male N.colorativollosus one is fed weekly the other every other day and boy is one of them bigger.



EulersK said:


> I don't know, that's a pretty big jump. Two inches may not seem like a lot, but that equates to a full 20% larger specimen... and 10" is already considered a very large specimen.
> 
> As an analogy to demonstrate what I'm saying, that would be like a six foot tall man saying that an extra foot taller wouldn't be a huge difference.


I understand your point and there is definitely some truth to it. Genetics make a difference, no B. Smithi will get to to a 10 inch legspan but every animal has a certain growth potential and there is no way of knowing if you provided the necessary resources for it to hit that potential, if you understand my point. Most people drastically under feed their spiders especially in the sling stage. And I've found that the more they are fed the larger they grow between molts.

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## 8legfreak (Feb 8, 2017)

EulersK said:


> I don't know, that's a pretty big jump. Two inches may not seem like a lot, but that equates to a full 20% larger specimen... and 10" is already considered a very large specimen.
> 
> As an analogy to demonstrate what I'm saying, that would be like a six foot tall man saying that an extra foot taller wouldn't be a huge difference.


In my experience, post-molt growth of about 25% isn't uncommon, so that 10" T may be only one molt away...

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## Nightstalker47 (Feb 8, 2017)

8legfreak said:


> In my experience, post-molt growth of about 25% isn't uncommon, so that 10" T may be only one molt away...


With you 100 %

I also think a T has a limited amount of molts in its life cycle and the more it grows from each molt the bigger the mature T.

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## Ungoliant (Feb 8, 2017)

EulersK said:


> I don't know, that's a pretty big jump. Two inches may not seem like a lot, but that equates to a full 20% larger specimen... and 10" is already considered a very large specimen.


I think a lot of these "monsters" can be explained by differences in measuring techniques -- combined with exaggeration. (Notice that you rarely see pictures of these unusually large Ts with a ruler.)

For example, DLS -- it sounds self-explanatory, but are you measuring at a more natural (for the tarantula) posture or with legs stretched to the limit? It's hard to get a live tarantula to stretch as much as you want, so I think a lot of people measure at a more natural posture and "estimate" what it would be if stretched to the limit. It's when they're estimating that exaggeration (intentional or not) comes into play.

Reactions: Agree 8


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## 8legfreak (Feb 8, 2017)

Nightstalker47 said:


> I also think a T has a limited amount of molts in its life cycle and the more it grows from each molt the bigger the mature T.


That theory could be possible... I tend to feed as much as they want, but not allowing it to get to a butt-dragging ready-to-burst situation.  They usually stop eating in prep for the next molt anyway.


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## Venom1080 (Feb 8, 2017)

Nightstalker47 said:


> And how can you be so sure that feeding doesn't influence the max size. Seems your contradicting yourself, so by that logic my spiderson max growth would not be influenced by how much I fed it? I disagree with you there, in order to grow the animal needs to absorb matter from his prey. So if I had two spiders of the same species and fed one more I can guarantee it would surpass the other in size. In fact I've been conducting this very experiment with a pair of male N.colorativollosus one is fed weekly the other every other day and boy is one of them bigger.


feeding only influences how fast that max size is reached. temps+more feeding= faster growth, not bigger max size. they also have unlimited molts in their lives, scorpions do not, but tarantulas certainly do.

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## Rittdk01 (Feb 8, 2017)

^^^^you're not gonna measure in a natural position.  I have a t stirmi that had a molt measure 10".  I pinned the molt in a shadow box and had it fully stretched out.  10" is an insanely huge spider, especially to anyone seeing their first tarantula.  T blondi are much more delicate and unforgiving where husbandry is concerned.  I would not pay the money and honestly, wouldnt take on the additional care requirements of the blondi over your stirmi.

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## Nightstalker47 (Feb 8, 2017)

Venom1080 said:


> feeding only influences how fast that max size is reached. temps+more feeding= faster growth, not bigger max size. they also have unlimited molts in their lives, scorpions do not, but tarantulas certainly do.


So if I own two males from the same egg sac and I feed one much more, wich I do like I said before (one is fed once a week and the other every other day)  a pair of male N. Colorativollosus . So when the bigger one hooks out, wich he may do first, you think the sibling will reach the same size? Even after if he molts later your telling me he isn't going to be larger then the sibling ? Oh and apparently hes going to molt infinitely lol. 

There's a reason that many spiders mature out smaller then others and it's not only the rate of growth but by consequence how often it's fed.

I recently brought a male N. Chromatus to a reptile expo in november at the holiday inn and Jon3800 saw it and couldn't believe it's size. He said his was half the size. Anyway you clearly aren't thinking this one through, feeding most definitely Influences the max size of the T. 

 Since when did they have infinite molts? That's ridiculous, they aren't immortal. Would be cool if they were, even females die eventually it's called lifespan. I don't mean to start a debate but I can't understand how you disagree.



Rittdk01 said:


> ^^^^you're not gonna measure in a natural position.  I have a t stirmi that had a molt measure 10".  I pinned the molt in a shadow box and had it fully stretched out.  10" is an insanely huge spider, especially to anyone seeing their first tarantula.  T blondi are much more delicate and unforgiving where husbandry is concerned.  I would not pay the money and honestly, wouldnt take on the additional care requirements of the blondi over your stirmi.


Wow that's a huge T, you must be a good keeper thanks but I haven't had any issues with the stirmi I was prepared for the spider had read a lot about them. All they need is good cross ventilation, moist soil, filled water dish and lots of food. I did hear that T. Blondi is more delicate and the price/spider ratio is a little overwhelming. 
thanks for the help

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## Venom1080 (Feb 8, 2017)

Nightstalker47 said:


> So if I own two males from the same egg sac and I feed one much more, wich I do like I said before (one is fed once a week and the other every other day)  a pair of male N. Colorativollosus . So when the bigger one hooks out, wich he may do first, you think the sibling will reach the same size? Even after if he molts later your telling me he isn't going to be larger then the sibling ? Oh and apparently hes going to molt infinitely lol.
> 
> There's a reason that many spiders mature out smaller then others and it's not only the rate of growth but by consequence how often it's fed.
> 
> ...


alrighty then, youre evidently set in your ways, wrong as they are, and youre not going to bother listening to more experienced keepers. im done wasting my time with you. 
oh, and jon3800? lol hes a joke.

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## EulersK (Feb 8, 2017)

Nightstalker47 said:


> Since when did they have infinite molts? That's ridiculous, they aren't immortal. Would be cool if they were, even females die eventually it's called lifespan. I don't mean to start a debate but I can't understand how you disagree.


He never said they were immortal, only that they continue to molt until the day they die. Which is absolutely true. Females eventually reach a max size to where they don't grow at all with a molt. Males do indeed stop molting when they mature, and the ones that attempt another molt almost universally die in the process.



Nightstalker47 said:


> There's a reason that many spiders mature out smaller then others and it's not only the rate of growth but b


You could be right. Emphasis on the could, though. There is no research done on the long term effects on feeding. It's generally accepted in the hobby that the amount of food only affects growth rate, not max size.

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## Nightstalker47 (Feb 8, 2017)

Venom1080 said:


> alrighty then, youre evidently set in your ways, wrong as they are, and youre not going to bother listening to more experienced keepers. im done wasting my time with you.
> oh, and jon3800? lol hes a joke.


Looks like your getting angry, no need for that. I'm only disagreeing with you over something that I've experienced first hand. And how can you say your more experienced you don't even know who I am. I may be new to arachnoboards but I'm not new to the hobby. And your dismissive attitude towards someone based on your preconceived notions about their "experience" is not to cool, it's  both unfair and bad for the hobby. I don't agree with Jon's care for all his spiders but I wouldn't go out calling him names. He's a guy who is passionnate about Ts just like the rest of us. Only person being unreasonable right now is you. Guess your way ahead of me

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## Rittdk01 (Feb 8, 2017)

Nightstalker47 said:


> Wow that's a huge T, you must be a good keeper thanks but I haven't had any issues with the stirmi I was prepared for the spider had read a lot about them. All they need is good cross ventilation, moist soil, filled water dish and lots of food. I did hear that T. Blondi is more delicate and the price/spider ratio is a little overwhelming.
> thanks for the help


I'm sure u would do fine with a blondi if u are keeping a stirmi.   I love theraphosa and thought I wanted all three. extra cost and care aren't worth it imo. I'm settling for the big girl I have now, and a stirmi sling I'm going to get when it warms up. To answer the original questionI have seen that apophysis is longest, but less bulk, and blondi is the biggest in  weight.  Once again, too similar to stirmi for all that $$$

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## Venom1080 (Feb 8, 2017)

Nightstalker47 said:


> Looks like your getting angry, no need for that. I'm only disagreeing with you over something that I've experienced first hand. And how can you say your more experienced you don't even know who I am. I may be new to arachnoboards but I'm not new to the hobby. And your dismissive attitude towards someone based on your preconceived notions about their "experience" is not to cool, it's  both unfair and bad for the hobby. I don't agree with Jon's care for all his spiders but I wouldn't go out calling him names. He's a guy who is passionnate about Ts just like the rest of us. Only person being unreasonable right now is you. Guess your way ahead of me


im going to assume some ones fairly new if they think tarantulas have a limited number of molts.. 
and what have you experienced first hand exactly? that spiders grow faster when fed more? wonder when i heard that before..
jon3800s care is very poor, a joke is a nice way of putting it.

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## Chris LXXIX (Feb 8, 2017)

Venom1080 said:


> jon3800s care is very poor, a joke is a nice way of putting it.


He's of best if you need an advice about a lawnmover :-s

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## Venom1080 (Feb 8, 2017)

Chris LXXIX said:


> He's of best if you need an advice about a lawnmover :-s


or fire alarms

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## Chris LXXIX (Feb 8, 2017)

Venom1080 said:


> or fire alarms


u_u

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## Nightstalker47 (Feb 8, 2017)

EulersK said:


> You could be right. Emphasis on the could, though. There is no research done on the long term effects on feeding. It's generally accepted in the hobby that the amount of food only affects growth rate, not max





Venom1080 said:


> im going to assume some ones fairly new if they think tarantulas have a limited number of molts..
> and what have you experienced first hand exactly? that spiders grow faster when fed more? wonder when i heard that before..
> jon3800s care is very poor, a joke is a nice way of putting it.


Keep on making assumptions, but I'm only here to learn more about Ts with friendly hobbyists. You seem eager to put others down, perhaps you should change your ways. I find it interesting how people get an ego kick out of this sort of thing, pat yourself on the back while your at it.

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## Chris LXXIX (Feb 8, 2017)

However Jon3800 always used his time on YT for help, in a honest way, beginners and other people asking him a question or an advice. I watched his videos, he always try his best for reply. I can disagree with something, and that's normal, but he's a man moved by a genuine passion :-s

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## Nightstalker47 (Feb 8, 2017)

Nightstalker47 said:


> Keep on making assumptions, but I'm only here to learn more about Ts with friendly hobbyists. You seem eager to put others down, perhaps you should change your ways. I find it interesting how people get an ego kick out of this sort of thing, pat yourself on the back while your at it.


Don't know why EulersK  was quoted my mistake there this is for venom


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## Venom1080 (Feb 8, 2017)

Nightstalker47 said:


> Keep on making assumptions, but I'm only here to learn more about Ts with friendly hobbyists. You seem eager to put others down, perhaps you should change your ways. I find it interesting how people get an ego kick out of this sort of thing, pat yourself on the back while your at it.


youre not going to learn anything when you disregard everything people tell you. youre mistaking eager to insult with eager to help, im almost always one of the first people to respond to a new thread.

Reactions: Agree 6


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## Nightstalker47 (Feb 8, 2017)

Venom1080 said:


> youre not going to learn anything when you disregard everything people tell you. youre mistaking eager to help with eager to point out something wrong, im almost always one of the first people to respond to a new thread.


I disagreed with you on one thing, and I know for a fact when my males mature the well fed one will be bigger. Justifying my point, I'm happy to learn but I won't take your disrespectful comments as help

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## AphonopelmaTX (Feb 8, 2017)

Ungoliant said:


> I think a lot of these "monsters" can be explained by differences in measuring techniques -- combined with exaggeration. (Notice that you rarely see pictures of these unusually large Ts with a ruler.)
> 
> For example, DLS -- it sounds self-explanatory, but are you measuring at a more natural (for the tarantula) posture or with legs stretched to the limit? It's hard to get a live tarantula to stretch as much as you want, so I think a lot of people measure at a more natural posture and "estimate" what it would be if stretched to the limit. It's when they're estimating that exaggeration (intentional or not) comes into play.


I agree with this 100%.  Many years ago I bought what I thought was a Theraphosa stirmi with an 11 inch legspan from the classifieds here.  The picture included the spider resting on a 12 inch tile for size verification.  That was enough to convince me it really had an 11 inch legspan and to drop a small fortune on it.  When this T. stirmi molted in my care, I took the fresh exuvia which was fully intact and measured it.  The exuvia measured 8 inches from tip of tarsus of leg 1 to tip of tarsus of leg 4.  There was no way I could manipulate it or measure it to be 11 inches.  This particular T. stirmi is still alive in my care and has molted a few times since and each time the fresh exuvia measured 8 inches.  Even though the legspan wasn't 11 inches, it is still a massive spider in body weight and carapace width.  It is my opinion that the most accurate way to get an idea of a size of a tarantula is to measure the carapace width and length living or dead.

Out of all of the giant adult tarantulas I have bought over the years, I would say a 7 inch legspan is the average no matter what someone tells you or advertises as.  It is also something that someone who claims to have a tarantula with a 9 or more inch legspan never has a picture to clearly back it up.  That being said, if anyone wants to see a picture of the T. stirmi exuvia with an 8 inch legspan, just let me know. 

Besides, fretting over legspan length is quite silly I think.  Even if one has a Theraphosa species with a 12 inch legspan, you're never going to see it fully stretched out.  Housed correctly, Theraphosa species will stay hidden in a stance with its legs drawn up to its body.  That goes for most of the giant species of tarantula, excluding maybe the arboreal ones.  At least the ones I have kept myself.

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## Nightstalker47 (Feb 8, 2017)

AphonopelmaTX said:


> I agree with this 100%.  Many years ago I bought what I thought was a Theraphosa stirmi with an 11 inch legspan from the classifieds here.  The picture included the spider resting on a 12 inch tile for size verification.  That was enough to convince me it really had an 11 inch legspan and to drop a small fortune on it.  When this T. stirmi molted in my care, I took the fresh exuvia which was fully intact and measured it.  The exuvia measured 8 inches from tip of tarsus of leg 1 to tip of tarsus of leg 4.  There was no way I could manipulate it or measure it to be 11 inches.  This particular T. stirmi is still alive in my care and has molted a few times since and each time the fresh exuvia measured 8 inches.  Even though the legspan wasn't 11 inches, it is still a massive spider in body weight and carapace width.  It is my opinion that the most accurate way to get an idea of a size of a tarantula is to measure the carapace width and length living or dead.
> 
> Out of all of the giant adult tarantulas I have bought over the years, I would say a 7 inch legspan is the average no matter what someone tells you or advertises as.  It is also something that someone who claims to have a tarantula with a 9 or more inch legspan never has a picture to clearly back it up.  That being said, if anyone wants to see a picture of the T. stirmi exuvia with an 8 inch legspan, just let me know.
> 
> Besides, fretting over legspan length is quite silly I think.  Even if one has a Theraphosa species with a 12 inch legspan, you're never going to see it fully stretched out.  Housed correctly, Theraphosa species will stay hidden in a stance with its legs drawn up to its body.  That goes for most of the giant species of tarantula, excluding maybe the arboreal ones.  At least the ones I have kept myself.


That's interesting I haven't ever been one to seen out large Ts I like to raise them from slings, you get to watch over them longer and see them grow into monsters. Very satisfying knowing you grew a big T from sling to maturity!

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## AphonopelmaTX (Feb 8, 2017)

Nightstalker47 said:


> That's interesting I haven't ever been one to seen out large Ts I like to raise them from slings, you get to watch over them longer and see them grow into monsters. Very satisfying knowing you grew a big T from sling to maturity!


I never said I grew a big tarantula from spiderling to maturity.  The T. stirmi I wrote about was bought as 11 inches and was actually 8 inches in legspan.  The other giant spiders I mentioned to have bought over the years were bought as adults.

On that topic though, the person I bought the giant T. stirmi from did raise it from a spiderling and told me how to grow them to massive sizes.  Basically, lots of dubia roaches, lots of water, and high temperatures.  According to this guy, he was able to grow it from a baby to a giant adult in about 3 years.  Using this method, I don't believe it can grow a tarantula to a long legspan, but from this one T. stirmi lots of food will increase a tarantula's body mass.  Being purely speculative, I think a tarantula's legspan is determined more from genetics than from nutrition.  High heat (85-90 degrees F) will make them grow faster, but it's what you feed it and how much that really dictates their final adult weight.

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## cold blood (Feb 8, 2017)

Nightstalker47 said:


> T
> 
> The slings in question were P. ornata and L. Parahybana


Neither of these species get to 10".   Claims of such are erroneous or just mistaken measurements like TX mentioned. (or are just freaks of nature)



Nightstalker47 said:


> And how can you be so sure that feeding doesn't influence the max size.


Now according to what I have read from *arachnologist* Sam Marshall, increased food at early ages, can and often does equate to a larger adult....I am not sure if he was taking about males as well, as sometimes they do just mature small....but I _do_ think its the case with females.

Here's the quote:

"...you cannot over-feed a growing spider.  In fact, the more you feed a young tarantula, the faster* and larger* it will grow."

Again, I believe this to be less the case with males.  IME I tend to feed males a lot and get them to maturity as fast as possible for breeding, and over the years, I have raised a few MM's that were much larger than average, but at the same time, I have raised about the same number that were much smaller than average (sometimes even siblings fed the same)...the vast majority have been average sized for their species.



Nightstalker47 said:


> I also think a T has a limited amount of molts in its life cycle and the more it grows from each molt the bigger the mature T.


This is just not the case though...a female will continue to molt throughout their lives, eventually the time between molts will increase *dramatically* and the growth may be _virtually_ non-existent...but they don't have a certain or limited number of molts.



Ungoliant said:


> For example, DLS -- it sounds self-explanatory, but are you measuring at a more natural (for the tarantula) posture or with legs stretched to the limit? It's hard to get a live tarantula to stretch as much as you want, so I think a lot of people measure at a more natural posture and "estimate" what it would be if stretched to the limit. It's when they're estimating that exaggeration (intentional or not) comes into play.


Ideally the legs should be stretched out to get the most accurate measurement...but like TX said, its not always ideal or possible to get a t to sit in these positions....arboreals that stretch out on the sides of the enclosure are far and away the easiest to see this from and get accurate measurements from.

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## edesign (Feb 8, 2017)

Rittdk01 said:


> ^^^^op don't feed the troll.  98% of the board are friendly, helpful and open to the suggestion that they don't know everything. There is an ignore feature for just such members


What troll? The one giving correct information? Lol, your definition of troll is wrong. Trolling has zilch to do with attitude. It has everything to do with posting false info and/or trying to incite negative reactions. Venom1080 is faaaaaaaar from a troll. Do you consider cold blood a troll too (EDIT: I swear I did not realize he posted while I was typing this)? He can be far more abrasive but is one of the better members of the forum. Why are people so sensitive to being told they're wrong? It's almost kinda funny. No ego kick involved with Venom's posts. No sugar coating either. Not everything has to taste/read like candy. He's not being a jerk. He's making an observation (accurately) about the comments and it seems someone was offended at being called out on it.

Regardless, great advice telling someone to ignore an intelligent and knowledgeable member /S  I'm pretty sure he doesn't have all those upvotes and stuff for being a jerk (or troll if we're misusing terms).

Anyway, back to the topic...



AphonopelmaTX said:


> On that topic though, the person I bought the giant T. stirmi from did raise it from a spiderling and told me how to grow them to massive sizes.  Basically, lots of dubia roaches, lots of water, and high temperatures.  According to this guy, he was able to grow it from a baby to a giant adult in about 3 years.  Using this method, I don't believe it can grow a tarantula to a long legspan, but from this one T. stirmi lots of food will increase a tarantula's body mass.  Being purely speculative, I think a tarantula's legspan is determined more from genetics than from nutrition.  High heat (85-90 degrees F) will make them grow faster, but it's what you feed it and how much that really dictates their final adult weight.


IOW...power feeding in to and through adulthood and making the home environment conducive to high metabolism to facilitate shorter periods between molts. No secret there for fast growth to a large size  I don't, however, see 10" to 12" in one molt being remotely feasible.

Regarding leg span I agree it would seem to be somewhat based on genetics. I've read numerous times over the last twelve years on this forum and elsewhere about breeders and long-term keepers having multiple spiders of the same species and sex that they've owned from slings/small juvies but observing noticeable differences in adult size. Since they were kept with the same keeper chances are favorable that they were all fed the same diet and at the same frequency.

I've got multiple specimens of various species such as E. olivacea (3), P. ecclesiasticus (4), X. immanis (3), A. versicolor (2), I. hirsutum (2), P. metallica (2), G. pulchra (2), N. incei "gold" (2, bought at different times from different people, but only about a year apart), and A. diversipes (3). All purchased as slings from the same person at the same time, except the N. incei, so I'm fairly certain they're siblings but even if they're not that's ok. Important part is they were purchased at the same time at the same size and should be equally impacted by diet, temps, humidity, etc. With pairs it's less likely to have two females but in the event I do I plan on noting any size differences as they reach adulthood. Males I won't bother with as I'll likely try to sell them.

I'd like to think I'll remember to post my observations as info such as that is hard to come by. I'm only sporadically on the forums these days. Right now the largest are the versis and hirsutums at ~2.5" so still got a bit of time to go. It's hot and humid in my T room in the summer (no AC, I use a humidifier set to 50%, give or take), temps reach the upper 80F's regularly and even touching low 90F's briefly *30-33C*) and cool and humid in the winter (central heating, humidifier, usually 68-71F/20-22C). Come spring time and in to summer it's a molting frenzy lol.If I move, highly likely given my neighbors, I'll note the new temperature ranges.



EulersK said:


> You could be right. Emphasis on the could, though. There is no research done on the long term effects on feeding. It's generally accepted in the hobby that the amount of food only affects growth rate, not max size.


Hmm. My thirteen year old Lp is barely 7.5" I have been told that seems a bit small for that age (I'm unsure if that's true). There was a fairly long period of a a number of years where she was underfed and I attributed it to that. It's my oldest T, raised from a sling, so I have no others to compare to of the same age. Her last molt took two years from the previous and about 1.5-1.75 years prior to that. Growth rate seemed to slow dramatically as she got older even with increased food.

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## Ran (Feb 8, 2017)

Nighstalker47. A female blondi for $350 is a steal. blondi are very rare here in the states. As for size, I have raised all 3 Theraphosa and blondi/stirmi are the bulkiest of the 3. Size is dependent on each individuals genes. I currently have 2 adult female stirmi that are 7 and 8 y/o and they are both at the 10" mark but the younger one is much thicker as her carapace measures 1.5" long and 1.5" wide. The older one is more mellow and has proven to be a great breeder. I have a 4 year old apophysis female that is over 8" but is very leggy and not as bulky...yet .


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## EulersK (Feb 8, 2017)

edesign said:


> Hmm. My thirteen year old Lp is barely 7.5" I have been told that seems a bit small for that age (I'm unsure if that's true). There was a fairly long period of a a number of years where she was underfed and I attributed it to that. It's my oldest T, raised from a sling, so I have no others to compare to of the same age. Her last molt took two years from the previous and about 1.5-1.75 years prior to that. Growth rate seemed to slow dramatically as she got older even with increased food.


Well, 8" is the going rate for LP's, so I'd say you're normal. The same way that there are large adults out there, small ones exist as well. That is a long time between molts though, I'll admit.


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## edesign (Feb 8, 2017)

Ran said:


> Nighstalker47. A female blondi for $350 is a steal. blondi are very rare here in the states. As for size, I have raised all 3 Theraphosa and blondi/stirmi are the bulkiest of the 3. Size is dependent on each individuals genes. I currently have 2 adult female stirmi that are 7 and 8 y/o and they are both at the 10" mark but the younger one is much thicker as her carapace measures 1.5" long and 1.5" wide. The older one is more mellow and has proven to be a great breeder. I have a 4 year old apophysis female that is over 8" but is very leggy and not as bulky...yet .


Got a photo with a ruler by chance? I don't doubt it based on the species. I just wanna see!!! 



EulersK said:


> Well, 8" is the going rate for LP's, so I'd say you're normal. The same way that there are large adults out there, small ones exist as well. That is a long time between molts though, I'll admit.


Right on. I thought it was kinda normal to go that long at that age but, again, I don't have any other T's nearly that old. Only one left from my first collection. I guess I'll find out this summer when it heats up again. She molted last June iirc so if she molts this summer I'll know something was up with the long periods. She seems healthy and happy.


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## Ungoliant (Feb 8, 2017)

AphonopelmaTX said:


> It is my opinion that the most accurate way to get an idea of a size of a tarantula is to measure the carapace width and length living or dead.


Interestingly, in the scientific community, spider size is usually measured by body length (from the end of the carapace to the end of the abdomen, not including legs palps, or spinnerets). The thinking is that this metric is the least dynamic (most reliable), whereas DLS varies considerably depending on the posture of the tarantula.

Being accustomed to this practice (I am not a scientist, just an educated amateur), the first time I gave a tarantula measurement, it was body length, and someone then informed me that DLS was the convention most commonly used among tarantula keepers.

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## EulersK (Feb 8, 2017)

Ungoliant said:


> Being accustomed to this practice (I am not a scientist, just an educated amateur), the first time I gave a tarantula measurement, it was body length, and someone then informed me that DLS was the convention most commonly used among tarantula keepers *in the United States*


Fixed  People in Europe use the much more reliable method of measuring the body length.

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## Arachnomaniac19 (Feb 8, 2017)

Ungoliant said:


> Interestingly, in the scientific community, spider size is usually measured by body length (from the end of the carapace to the end of the abdomen, not including legs palps, or spinnerets). The thinking is that this metric is the least dynamic (most reliable), whereas DLS varies considerably depending on the posture of the tarantula.
> 
> Being accustomed to this practice (I am not a scientist, just an educated amateur), the first time I gave a tarantula measurement, it was body length, and someone then informed me that DLS was the convention most commonly used among tarantula keepers.


I'm thinking that I should use body length from now on. Kind of like switching from imperial to metric I suppose.

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## BobBarley (Feb 8, 2017)

EulersK said:


> Fixed  People in Europe use the much more reliable method of measuring the body length.


What happens with fattening t's up though?  Wouldn't the abdomen enlargement affect the total body length?

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## Ungoliant (Feb 8, 2017)

BobBarley said:


> What happens with fattening t's up though?  Wouldn't the abdomen enlargement affect the total body length?


It seems to affect girth more than length.

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## EulersK (Feb 8, 2017)

BobBarley said:


> What happens with fattening t's up though?  Wouldn't the abdomen enlargement affect the total body length?


Perhaps? Not sure, actually. It may, but maybe just not significantly. I mean, it's still more reliable than DLS.


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## Venom1080 (Feb 8, 2017)

EulersK said:


> Perhaps? Not sure, actually. It may, but maybe just not significantly. I mean, it's still more reliable than DLS.


i dont know about that.. i think @BobBarley  is spot on about how feeding can make the size vary. i can have skinny 6" spider, and a really fat 5" one, and according to that measurement, the 5" spider is larger than the 6" one. that alone really turns me off from it. at least legspan stays the same.

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## Anoplogaster (Feb 8, 2017)

Hmm..... Ok, so I definitely agree that the final size of a T is based on genetics. People are the same way. When I finally have kids, it will make no difference how much or often I feed them, they will never be as tall as Shaquille O'Neal. They'll get heavier, though

I also agree that DLS is a bit silly, as it varies so much with body proportions. My rufilata is now a 5" DLS, which is the same as my A. avicularia. But really, the rufilata is still a MUCH smaller spider at the moment. She's just made of noodles compared to the avic! I think DLS just allows us to throw out big numbers, which we seem to like as humans.

Eh whatever! The legendary large sizes seem like fish stories to me! But why does it actually matter? Having the largest spider doesn't say anything about you other than the fact that your spider happened to get larger. Doesn't make you a better keeper or anything. It's just a pissing contest

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## BobBarley (Feb 8, 2017)

Ungoliant said:


> It seems to affect girth more than length.


Eh, I don't know.  Post molt, many t's have a tiny abdomen.


EulersK said:


> Perhaps? Not sure, actually. It may, but maybe just not significantly. I mean, it's still more reliable than DLS.





Venom1080 said:


> i dont know about that.. i think @BobBarley  is spot on about how feeding can make the size vary. i can have skinny 6" spider, and a really fat 5" one, and according to that measurement, the 5" spider is larger than the 6" one. that alone really turns me off from it. at least legspan stays the same.


Hm, maybe we should start listing DLS, carapace length + width, and body length....  Or just provide pics of the t next to a ruler.

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## edesign (Feb 8, 2017)

Venom1080 said:


> i dont know about that.. i think @BobBarley  is spot on about how feeding can make the size vary. i can have skinny 6" spider, and a really fat 5" one, and according to that measurement, the 5" spider is larger than the 6" one. that alone really turns me off from it. at least legspan stays the same.


I thought that the point of using the body length isn't so much to compare to other species (I'm assuming that's what you're comparing, please correct me if I am wrong) but to the same species. The leg length relative to the body length should be pretty consistent within the same sex. It's not nearly as impressive though.

To clue myself in a bit more and to get a jump on Venom's possible reply does leg span relative to body span tend to be fairly consistent across species assuming the same sex? For instance, a 3" BL P. murinus has a similar leg span to a 3" BL G. rosea? I know there is variation but I've never really paid attention to exactly how much variation.



Anoplogaster said:


> I also agree that DLS is a bit silly, as it varies so much with body proportions. My rufilata is now a 5" DLS, which is the same as my A. avicularia. But really, the rufilata is still a MUCH smaller spider at the moment. She's just made of noodles compared to the avic! I think DLS just allows us to throw out big numbers, which we seem to like as humans.


There's one answer to my question, missed your reply, and describes my female juvie rufilata as well lol.



> Eh whatever! The legendary large sizes seem like fish stories to me! But why does it actually matter? Having the largest spider doesn't say anything about you other than the fact that your spider happened to get larger. Doesn't make you a better keeper or anything. It's just a pissing contest


I don't think anyone was looking for bragging rights here. Some people just really like huge spiders. Some people want to know maximum observed sizes for fun or reference. I fall in to both categories. If there are claims of an abnormally large spider of a particular species I want to see photos WITH a ruler or graph paper. Something for an exact measurement.


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## Ran (Feb 9, 2017)

The photo with just the quarter was when the molt was still a bit moist/fresh (you can still see some moisture). The other shot with the 2 bodies is of the 2 adult females at a later date. The photo with the ruler was taken tonite and the molt is very dried and curled in a bit as molts always do. Measure a quarter...they are just under an inch for reference.

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## edesign (Feb 9, 2017)

Good. Lawd. That's a monster!!  Huge carapace. Thank you for sharing! Guess I'll go look at my nearly imperceptible 7.5" Lp and let out a disappointing sigh lol

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## Moakmeister (Feb 9, 2017)

As far as size goes, it's a bit like the whole P. imperator vs P. dictator vs H. swammerdami thing. These species all get to be almost the exact same size on average. For the blondi and stirmi, their average sizes are so similar that it's still pretty much safe to say that the blondi is the biggest.


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## Andrea82 (Feb 9, 2017)

Bodylength is used for comparing within the species. Like mentioned, a B.vagans and an A.avicularia can have the same DLS, but the bodylength is massively different.
Both ways have their pro's and con's. When only knowing the bodylength and not being very familiar with he species, you have no idea how big the total spider is when ordering, and thus no way of telling what size enclosure to get.
On the other hand, getting an actual exact measurement is easier when measuring the bodylength with some accuracy, since the carapace and abdomen are less able to change than the stance of the legs. 
Bodylength is usually measured when the spider is mid cycle, so not post- or pre-molt.

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## Anoplogaster (Feb 9, 2017)

Andrea82 said:


> Bodylength is used for comparing within the species. Like mentioned, a B.vagans and an A.avicularia can have the same DLS, but the bodylength is massively different.
> Both ways have their pro's and con's. When only knowing the bodylength and not being very familiar with he species, you have no idea how big the total spider is when ordering, and thus no way of telling what size enclosure to get.
> On the other hand, getting an actual exact measurement is easier when measuring the bodylength with some accuracy, since the carapace and abdomen are less able to change than the stance of the legs.
> Bodylength is usually measured when the spider is mid cycle, so not post- or pre-molt.


Yup.... they can fold up their legs into almost nothing. When I brought my big vittata in for my students last semester, I told them I'd be showing them a spider that's over 7 inches DLS. But when I brought the enclosure in, she was so nervous from the move that she balled up into a pathetic little 3 inch pile for the whole week

Poor girl

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## Ran (Feb 9, 2017)

edesign, you're welcome! In my experience blondi have shorter femurs than stirmi. Most folks have not seen a real adult Theraphosa as they see one that is 8" and think that is an "adult" but it really is a either a subadult or a very large juvenile. As they mature from that size is when they begin to really thicken up and grow slower size wise in length. LP's are incredible! I have an adult female about yours size. The black on their carapaces are special at that age . I believe measuring a T should be done by carapace only as abdomen size is relative to how much it has been fed as a carapace is rigid...legs can differ in size greatly within a species. I have an 8" genic female whose legs are noticeably longer than her sisters.

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## Venom1080 (Feb 9, 2017)

edesign said:


> I thought that the point of using the body length isn't so much to compare to other species (I'm assuming that's what you're comparing, please correct me if I am wrong) but to the same species. The leg length relative to the body length should be pretty consistent within the same sex. It's not nearly as impressive though.
> 
> To clue myself in a bit more and to get a jump on Venom's possible reply does leg span relative to body span tend to be fairly consistent across species assuming the same sex? For instance, a 3" BL P. murinus has a similar leg span to a 3" BL G. rosea? I know there is variation but I've never really paid attention to exactly how much variation.


I'm not sure what you're talking about here..


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## edesign (Feb 11, 2017)

I'm unsure why I mentioned you there either *shrugs*


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## chanda (Feb 11, 2017)

Anoplogaster said:


> Yup.... they can fold up their legs into almost nothing. When I brought my big vittata in for my students last semester, I told them I'd be showing them a spider that's over 7 inches DLS. But when I brought the enclosure in, she was so nervous from the move that she balled up into a pathetic little 3 inch pile for the whole week
> 
> Poor girl


Don't you hate when that happens??? Mine do the same thing when I bring them in to show my students. (Except the P. vittata - _he_ spends pretty much the entire time in his burrow. The kids hardly ever get to see him. And yes, I do mean "burrow" - he built his little dirt curtain at the back of the cage, but then he tunneled underneath it and spends most of the daylight hours underneath the substrate. Doesn't he know the meaning of the word "arboreal"?)

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## AphonopelmaTX (Feb 11, 2017)

Ungoliant said:


> Interestingly, in the scientific community, spider size is usually measured by body length (from the end of the carapace to the end of the abdomen, not including legs palps, or spinnerets). The thinking is that this metric is the least dynamic (most reliable), whereas DLS varies considerably depending on the posture of the tarantula.
> 
> Being accustomed to this practice (I am not a scientist, just an educated amateur), the first time I gave a tarantula measurement, it was body length, and someone then informed me that DLS was the convention most commonly used among tarantula keepers.


After thinking about this for a minute, I have to change my response to the most accurate way to measure a tarantula.  I'm aware that in the scientific community body length is used, but in keeping tarantulas or other spiders and arachnids as pets perhaps leg span needs to stay the standard.  Only because one needs to know the leg span in order to provide an appropriate sized container to house it in.  I don't know why diagonal leg span is ever used though. Measuring from one side seems to be sufficient. In all other circumstances, body length would be best with a note defining how body length is measured.  I could swear that in some tarantula description papers I've read some authors include chelicerae in that measurement and some do not, but don't quote me on that.

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## Philth (Feb 11, 2017)

Later, Tom

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## Venom1080 (Feb 11, 2017)

wow... im speechless..

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## chanda (Feb 11, 2017)

That is absolutely spectacular!

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## cold blood (Feb 11, 2017)

Obviously a trick tape measure

That's a big spider my friend!

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## BobBarley (Feb 11, 2017)

Steroids!?   Freaking amazing blondi.


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## sdsnybny (Feb 12, 2017)

THANKS TOM!!!!! 
@Philth How many years to get to that size?


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## Ungoliant (Feb 12, 2017)

AphonopelmaTX said:


> After thinking about this for a minute, I have to change my response to the most accurate way to measure a tarantula.  I'm aware that in the scientific community body length is used, but in keeping tarantulas or other spiders and arachnids as pets perhaps leg span needs to stay the standard.  Only because one needs to know the leg span in order to provide an appropriate sized container to house it in.


I wouldn't suggest trying to overthrow the existing convention of using legspan, as 1) keepers are so accustomed to using  that substituting body length would cause confusion and 2) legspan is a useful metric for determining appropriate dimensions in an enclosure (as you mentioned). But it could be interesting to include body length alongside legspan.




AphonopelmaTX said:


> I don't know why diagonal leg span is ever used though. Measuring from one side seems to be sufficient.


I think this was simply chosen as the metric that produces the biggest (most impressive) number.


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## Moakmeister (Feb 12, 2017)

Philth said:


> Later, Tom


Jeez, that's not even completely extended, either. The legs could go out a bit more. and that's a MOLT! How big is the real deal?

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## Olan (Feb 12, 2017)

Nightstalker47 said:


> Hello fellow hobbyists,
> 
> I have always been very interested in the large fast growing species. So I've got plenty of the big new world terrestrial species such as : T.Stirmi, A .Geniculata, L.parahybana, L. Difficilis, N. Chromatus and P. Cancerides.
> 
> ...


OP, you like the large, fast growing species but don't mention Pamphobeteus? Surely you have some right???

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## 8legfreak (Feb 12, 2017)

Philth said:


> Later, Tom


SERIOUSLY???? No one noticed the 11 and 12 were  photo-shopped? None of you other metric users know that 20cm equals about 8"????  FAKE NEWS!!!

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## Moakmeister (Feb 12, 2017)

8legfreak said:


> SERIOUSLY???? No one noticed the 11 and 12 were  photo-shopped? None of you other metric users know that 20cm equals about 8"????  FAKE NEWS!!!


I guess Mark Twain was right.

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## Angel Minkov (Feb 12, 2017)

From what I've seen stirmi are actually bigger overall


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## Moakmeister (Feb 12, 2017)

Philth said:


> Later, Tom


Welp jokes on me. I actually noticed that the 12 and 13 were misaligned with the ticks. Didn't think anything of it at the time.


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## BobBarley (Feb 12, 2017)

Dang, @Philth it's fake?


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## sdsnybny (Feb 12, 2017)

Looking at the inch tick marks compared to the cm marks it appears to be about 11" still pretty big

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## 8legfreak (Feb 12, 2017)

Its still a big 9.5" T....  



sdsnybny said:


> Looking at the inch tick marks compared to the cm marks it appears to be about 11" still pretty big


11 inches = 27.9 cm

So... Does anyone know how big the average skateboard is?

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## sdsnybny (Feb 12, 2017)

8legfreak said:


> So... Does anyone know how big the average skateboard is?


LOL nice shot of the FINGER board in your avitar

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## Belegnole (Feb 12, 2017)

8legfreak said:


> So... Does anyone know how big the average skateboard is?


Mine are longboards and they run somewhere around forty inches.


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## Philth (Feb 12, 2017)

8legfreak said:


> SERIOUSLY???? No one noticed the 11 and 12 were  photo-shopped? None of you other metric users know that 20cm equals about 8"????  FAKE NEWS!!!


lol, I'm surprised no one else picked up on that, although I suspect @AphonopelmaTX did. I was far to lazy to change the CM lol, and I figured on a American based board, most people wouldn't notice. Bottom line, don't believe everything you see or read on the internet 

To reiterate a few things that have already been said in this thread.

Female tarantulas molt their whole life, but at some point reach their max size and stop growing.
Power feeding will make them, grow quicker, but not larger in the long run.
A young _Theraphosa_ may grow 1-2 inches in a molt that may seem ridiculous. But that slows down, and at some point adult spiders stop growing , even after a molt.
The "12 inch" _T. blondi_ that Robc had was actually a_ T. stirmi_, but back then everyone called them _T. blondi._
The "12 inch" _T. stirmi _that Robc had was never measured on a ruler, and was likely barley 10 . He even claimed in one of the videos of it molting that it must be close to 14 inches post molt, under the misunderstanding that they continue to grow as adults. (Much like we saw in the misinformed beginning of this thread)
I've owned adult females of all three species of _Theraphosa_, and for me, the biggest spiders I've ever seen in my life were WC _T. stirmi_.
I've never see a spider or a picture of a spider/molt more then 10.5 inches
12" spiders don't exist.
11" spiders don't exist.
A molt stretched out to reach ten inches, is only about 7-8 inches in a spiders normal resting position.
Now that the cat is out of the bag, here is the real photo of what is my current largest spider. A adult female _T. apophysis_. When this spider molted I was certain it was over ten inches. But I even fooled myself, rulers don't lie. Men tend to over exaggerate size lol 


Later, Tom

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## Nightstalker47 (Feb 12, 2017)

Well I didn't realize this thread was still going strong. I read through all the posts and I now understand where I may have been off. 

So I guess from everyone here's point of view a spider cannot outgrow a sibling in the long run, only that powerfeeding enables them to get to that size faster. 

I am aware that females continue to molt until their death. I am aware that males have limited molts, having had many mature under my care. I still think the term infinite molts is wrong in its wording and that the person who said this " fact" was speaking in a general manner as he said Tarantulas and not females. I never said that P. Ornata and LP get to 10 inches. I'm only speculating on the possibility of what I think may impact the animal. I thinks it's self explanatory, If you don't feed a T for a whole year and feed another all year the underfed sling will have stunted it's growth and lost much of his potential. He will not grow to the same size. It's easy to say oh no the other one only grew faster it won't get any bigger... in my experience it does generally lead to a larger final size, in mature males only.

I'm a big fan of your blog and YouTube channel Tom. Although you may not agree, Im honored to see that you chimed in.

I only wanted to hear if anyone else had experienced a similar situation. I've had LP slings in the past that were bought with a friend. He only bought one and I bought several yet when I saw his specimen months later it was drastically smaller then all of my slings. Here's where it gets interesting, his LP turned out to be male and it was a small 5 inch mature male. I still have a male bought about 2 years ago, I was going to send him out but he was an exceptional spider and I became attached. Well he matured and he's a minimum of 7 inches probably bigger. I'm going to get him out and attempt to measure. But he was from the same eggsac, and i know that my friend didnt feed regurlarly. Long story short, the final size of my male was quite bigger then his , which i belive was impacted by the way I was keeping it. I could be wrong.

I'm open to all of your opinions and I'm not saying that I have it all figured out but I definitely feel like I'm on to something. 

Thanks for all the responses. I'm always interested in your point of views and personal experiences.

Here'sa pic of my big male Lp. Very hard to get him to stretch out but you can tell he's a big boy.

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## Philth (Feb 12, 2017)

Nightstalker47 said:


> I'm a big fan of your blog and YouTube channel Tom. Although you may not agree, Im honored to see that you chimed in.


Just to be clear, I'm not that Tom lol. His popularity on YouTube seems to be growing, because I find myself being confused with him more and more. He's a much nicer person then I am, so I would feel bad if people think I'm him lol. 

I don't think anyone would disagree that mature males can vary in size. Its pretty well known, and I've heard some interesting theory's on maybe why that is.  Anyways, although very different then _Theraphosa_, take a look at these to _Cyriocosmus_ mature male brothers from the same sac. I've seen it in many genera from species across the world. 



Later, Tom

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## Nightstalker47 (Feb 12, 2017)

Oh sorry man my mistake.That's really weird,  I haven't owned this species but are you certain the smaller male is mature? He looks different in coloration, if he is then that would suggest some large genetic variation between them. Very interesting, did you keep them at the same temps and feed them the same amount?


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## Philth (Feb 12, 2017)

100% positive its mature. I may not be the Tom you were hoping for, but I know what I'm doing lol. 

Same temps, same feeding schedule. The larger one matured a year later.

Later, Not your Tom lol.

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## Ran (Feb 12, 2017)

Tom, that is a beautiful apophysis girl! I have an 8" girl that is all legs. Great T's


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## cold blood (Feb 12, 2017)

Philth said:


> I don't think anyone would disagree that mature males can vary in size. Its pretty well known, and I've heard some interesting theory's on maybe why that is.  Anyways, although very different then _Theraphosa_, take a look at these to _Cyriocosmus_ mature male brothers from the same sac. I've seen it in many genera from species across the world.
> 
> 
> 
> Later, Tom


Yeah I have had the same experiences over and over again.  *All* my males are well fed and my room is kept at about 80, so I get fast growth...sometimes I get males that do grow very large, sometimes I get ones that just mature really fast instead, which leads to small MMs.  

In the same room, with sibling males I have had ezendami mature as small as 1.75" and as large as 3.5"...I've had cams mature anywhere from  just under 4", to 7"...versicolor mature as small as 2.75" and as big as 4.5"....marshalli mature as small as 2.5" and as large as 4"...and so on.

I know someone else who does the slow growth method, her MM's take a *lot* longer to mature, but she doesn't seem to ever have males mature early at small sizes.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 2


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## Venom1080 (Feb 12, 2017)

8legfreak said:


> SERIOUSLY???? No one noticed the 11 and 12 were  photo-shopped? None of you other metric users know that 20cm equals about 8"????  FAKE NEWS!!!


good eyes..  ruined my day..

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Sana (Feb 12, 2017)

Wow I didn't know I could still look at a tarantula and think "holy cow it's a giant spider!" and shiver a little. Behold I was mistaken. And I thought that my nice 6.5" female P. vittata was big.


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## mconnachan (Jun 28, 2017)

cold blood said:


> This is just not the case though...a female will continue to molt throughout their lives, eventually the time between molts will increase *dramatically* and the growth may be _virtually_ non-existent...but they don't have a certain or limited number of molts.


I've had my P. _metallica _for less than a year and in that time it has molted "seven times" yes seven, still haven't been able to sex it from an exuviae, hopefully I will get my answer after it's next molt, it's sitting at a relaxed 3"+ so I think feeding regularly does have some influence on size and molting times, very interesting point @cold blood, makes sense of course, the more you feed the quicker the molts will come around.


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## jaycied (Jun 28, 2017)

Back to whether or not it's worth paying for a blond or apophysis, they look to similar and the growth difference isn't drastic enough for me to want anything but a stirmi. Especially when considering cost.


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## Moakmeister (Jun 28, 2017)

jaycied said:


> Back to whether or not it's worth paying for a blond or apophysis, they look to similar and the growth difference isn't drastic enough for me to want anything but a stirmi. Especially when considering cost.


Actually blondi and stirmi look pretty different from the apophysis. The apophysis has longer legs and larger fangs, and it's more red than brown. It's also skinnier and not as heavy.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## cold blood (Jun 28, 2017)

mconnachan said:


> I've had my P. _metallica _for less than a year and in that time it has molted "seven times" yes seven, still haven't been able to sex it from an exuviae, hopefully I will get my answer after it's next molt, it's sitting at a relaxed 3"+ so I think feeding regularly does have some influence on size and molting times, very interesting point @cold blood, makes sense of course, the more you feed the quicker the molts will come around.


Theyre *really* easy to vent sex.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Nightstalker47 (Jun 28, 2017)

I have some interesting results regarding the feeding/growth rate debate that ensued over the course of this thread, will be taking pictures and sharing soon.


Venom1080 said:


> feeding only influences how fast that max size is reached. temps+more feeding= faster growth, not bigger max size.


See the problem I had with this post was the way you presented it as fact, truth is we do not know for certain. I can't prove it will result in a larger adult, but I have observed that heavier feeding will result in significant growth between molts, whereas underfed slings may not grow as much with each molt. I was careless with my wording in this thread so I can see where I may of been misunderstood.


cold blood said:


> Now according to what I have read from *arachnologist* Sam Marshall, increased food at early ages, can and often does equate to a larger adult....I am not sure if he was taking about males as well, as sometimes they do just mature small....but I _do_ think its the case with females.
> 
> Here's the quote:
> 
> "...you cannot over-feed a growing spider.  In fact, the more you feed a young tarantula, the faster* and larger* it will grow."


That's how I should of worded my observations, truly an encitful quote and response.

Just because general consensus revolves around one belief does not make another invalid. In fact throughout history those with the ability to question information at hand have often been the ones to make groundbreaking discoveries.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## mconnachan (Jun 28, 2017)

cold blood said:


> Theyre *really* easy to vent sex.


I think it's male, going by the spot method, I'm trying to stay optimistic....lol, most likely is a male though if the spot method and width of the book lungs are anything to go by, thanks @cold blood here's
a ventral shot, I'm sure it's male.


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## Kieron2626123 (Jan 15, 2019)

11 inch plus apophysis next to a 9 inch pampho 
My friends pic btw

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2


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## Sarkhan42 (Jan 15, 2019)

0.1.0 L. parahybana



__ Sarkhan42
__ Jun 4, 2018
__ 1
__
brazilian salmon tarantula
exuviae
lasiodora
lasiodora parahybana
lp
molt
parahybana




						13 year old female I work with
					




With this thread resurfacing might as well repost this. Largest LP I've ever seen, she's really something in person.

Reactions: Like 5


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## SonsofArachne (Jan 16, 2019)

Sarkhan42 said:


> 0.1.0 L. parahybana
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So much for the "LP's max out at 8 inches" argument that I've seen on these boards. With the legs straightened that one has to be a least 9 inches. But genetic variance allows for specimens of a larger than normal size, so Theraphosa of 12 inch or even larger dls  probably occur.


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## Philth (Jan 16, 2019)

Kieron2626123 said:


> 11 inch plus apophysis next to a 9 inch pampho
> My friends pic btw


Does your friend own a ruler ? 

Later, Tom

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2 | Love 1 | Winner 1


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## Venom 13 (May 25, 2019)

SonsofArachne said:


> So much for the "LP's max out at 8 inches" argument that I've seen on these boards. With the legs straightened that one has to be a least 9 inches. But genetic variance allows for specimens of a larger than normal size, so Theraphosa of 12 inch or even larger dls  probably occur.


LPs get pretty big.  There are many 8 plus inch LPs. Here are some old pics. They are not in the top 5 in size for nothing.


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## SonsofArachne (May 26, 2019)

Venom 13 said:


> LPs get pretty big.  There are many 8 plus inch LPs. Here are some old pics. They are not in the top 5 in size for nothing.


That's pretty much what I was saying in my post......


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## Andrea82 (May 26, 2019)

SonsofArachne said:


> That's pretty much what I was saying in my post......


I read your post wrong initially too. From the first sentence it looks as though you're saying that there is no such thing as an 8 inch Lp. 
So I guess @Venom 13 is trying to prove you wrong


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## Dry Desert (May 26, 2019)

Andrea82 said:


> Bodylength is used for comparing within the species. Like mentioned, a B.vagans and an A.avicularia can have the same DLS, but the bodylength is massively different.
> Both ways have their pro's and con's. When only knowing the bodylength and not being very familiar with he species, you have no idea how big the total spider is when ordering, and thus no way of telling what size enclosure to get.
> On the other hand, getting an actual exact measurement is easier when measuring the bodylength with some accuracy, since the carapace and abdomen are less able to change than the stance of the legs.
> Bodylength is usually measured when the spider is mid cycle, so not post- or pre-molt.


I think there should be a common standard for the measurement of ALL inverts. DLS for scorpions or centipedes is completely irrelevant but seems the common measurement for T,s  Body length is the only really accurate way to measure any invert. Then you are not talking stretched / not stretched crouched or any other leg position. Regarding " power feeding affects size" if you look at most vertibrates including us, they don't increase in overall length only girth.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Vanisher (May 26, 2019)

A friend of me bought a huge female in expo in Germany. And when i say huge, i mean HUGE! Some time after when it had moulted i visited him! We measured the moult and it was 11 inch legspan! I dont lie! I saw it with my own eyes! Not only the legspan was huge! It was incredible bulky, with an insane carapace! That was a monster really! I have never seen anything like that tarantula! Not before, not after! It was a sight to behold!


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## Andrea82 (May 26, 2019)

Dry Desert said:


> I think there should be a common standard for the measurement of ALL inverts. DLS for scorpions or centipedes is completely irrelevant but seems the common measurement for T,s  Body length is the only really accurate way to measure any invert. Then you are not talking stretched / not stretched crouched or any other leg position. Regarding " power feeding affects size" if you look at most vertibrates including us, they don't increase in overall length only girth.


Where I'm from, they measure bodylength as well, which is fine, but I like to have the legspan added as well. The first gives me an idea how big it is, but the second gives me a better insight in to how big the enclosure has to be. Especially when dealing with species I haven't had before. Bodylength for say, a Poecilotheria does not convey how big of an enclosure needs to be ready, because its legspan is huge in comparison to say a Brachypelma which has shorter legs. 
So I like both.


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## Liquifin (May 26, 2019)

Dry Desert said:


> Body length is the only really accurate way to measure any invert. Then you are not talking stretched / not stretched crouched or any other leg position.


This is contradictory in a sense. I'm not a big fan of body length because the abdomen can be "stretched" if they gain a bit of girth or fat. If were talking pampho's, Theraphosa's, and those T.'s with large/big abdomens I wouldn't be surprised if they are "stretched" by being fed a lot. I mean sure, they can't be overly stretched as in legspan, but even with body length the abdomen can be stretched in a sense by being fat.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## cold blood (May 26, 2019)

My male molts and matures, leg span increases significantly, while body size decreases....did the spider get bigger or smaller with the ultimate molt?   Going by body size, it got smaller...lmao.

A pokie and a P. cancerides have the same body size, but the pokie is 2.5" larger in leg span...are they the same size or is that pokie actually bigger.

See the huge flaw in body measurements?


Are large leggy species smaller than bulky species of the same leg span or are they the same.  Is a full grown ornata or rufialata smaller than a full grown LP?   Only by body size....leg span those pokies are much larger.

Body size tells me nothing aboit how big a t is, because body size and legginess in relation to the body size is highly variable...leggy species arent smaller, in fact, some of the largest arboreals are leggy as heck and lack the robust bodies of most terrestrials.

If body size always correlated with leg span, it would be a more accurate measurement, but its not....a spider is as large as the space it takes up, not just the space its body takes up.

Reactions: Award 1


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## Dry Desert (May 26, 2019)

True, but if you obviously know the species you are purchasing and you have an accurate body size that should tell you all you need to know.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Andrea82 (May 26, 2019)

Dry Desert said:


> True, but if you obviously know the species you are purchasing and you have an accurate body size that should tell you all you need to know.


Well... Not everybody 'obviously' knows the exact size proportions when they get a species for the first time. Pictures only give a one dimensional picture.


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