# Hardwood vs. Softwood and other Millipede Questions



## Tarantel (Oct 29, 2011)

I'm going to buy some millipedes (the American millipede medley, with _Narceus americanus_, bumblebee 'pedes, ivory millipedes and scarlet millipedes.) from BugsInCyberspace.com as soon as I accumulate some more money. I collected some rotting wood and leaves from outside to use as substrate (of course I will microwave/wash/boil it to get microbes and fungus and insects off) but my dad said the wood I collected was softwood, pine, and millipedes are supposed to have hardwood (according to BugsInCyberspace's millipede caresheet). Also, isn't pine dangerous to inverts? Can I use the softwood or do I need some hardwood? Would it be safer for the millipedes if I just spent the extra 14 dollars and bought it from the BIC store? Also one of the millipede species I'm getting is a bumblebee millipede, which BIC says does not do well under 72 degrees. I think it is a few degrees lower than that in my room. Will it be fine or do I need to raise the temperature in my room?


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## KyuZo (Oct 29, 2011)

if you just gonna get one of each, then they won't give you any offspring and you will always have just 4 and eventually they'll die off and you'll just gonna spend more money to buy more.   you should get 4 of one specie and breed them.  then later trade them off for other species.  just my opinion.  what part of the states are you living in?


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## Tarantel (Oct 29, 2011)

I'm living in the northeast, why?


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## catfishrod69 (Oct 29, 2011)

northeast haha....yeah you should get multiples...i have never had much luck with millies...but i always tried to get atleast 2 of each...





Tarantel said:


> I'm living in the northeast, why?


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## KyuZo (Oct 29, 2011)

Tarantel said:


> I'm living in the northeast, why?


i have a friend in that part of the states that sell FL ivory millipedes at $4 each and he usually throws in some extras, AND he only sell subadults and adults.  

i can refer him to you if you like.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Tarantel (Oct 29, 2011)

Hmmm. How much is the shipping cost? Does he have any of other kinds of millipede?


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## KyuZo (Oct 29, 2011)

he doesn't have any other kind of millipedes.  you'll have to talk to him about shipping.


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## Tarantel (Oct 29, 2011)

Does he have a website I can visit or something?


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## KyuZo (Oct 29, 2011)

Lol, well, i guess i was wrong, he is selling them cheaper than i thought.  

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/sho...llipedes-n-Corn-Snakes-n-Such&highlight=ivory

i have 20 of these little guys and they are pretty neat.  i usually see at least 3-4 out and about with 20 millies.  they like to come out more at night.


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## Tarantel (Oct 29, 2011)

I think I might buy those. More for cheaper! Thanks.

---------- Post added 10-29-2011 at 06:34 PM ----------

Alright, now that I've decided to buy those, do you know the answer to my question about the hardwood and softwood and toxic pine stuff?


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## KyuZo (Oct 29, 2011)

i haven't been keeping millipedes that long, so i don't know much about them.  i'm still learning.  i have a grape vine that i stuck in the substrate and i saw some of them eating it as it was turning black and molding.  i think that grape vine is a soft wood.  i don't know about pine wood, fresh pine wood doesn't sound safe to me.

---------- Post added 10-29-2011 at 04:01 PM ----------

and let me just add that you don't need to worry so much.  some species like ivory is not that picky or fragile, they'll be okay if you just throw in some dead leaves, old soft or hardwood, fruits, veggies, and dog kibbles or fish food.


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## J Morningstar (Oct 29, 2011)

From my underdstanding if soft wood with harmful oils like pine or cedar it must be falling apart rotten to be safe at all, it would be better to stick to true hardwoods or ones bought through established sources.


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## KyuZo (Oct 29, 2011)

J, what do you think of grape vines?  they rot away pretty fast i think.  the ones that you buy that home depot or the pet shop.  my isopods and my millies would eat those as they rot away.


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## J Morningstar (Oct 30, 2011)

Home depot probably not, pet store yea.


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## KyuZo (Oct 30, 2011)

they usually sell sand blasted grape vines for use to grow those frisky hair plants that need no soil and you only need to mist them for water.


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## Tarantel (Oct 30, 2011)

I need to mix rotting wood and leave into the substrate or my millipedes will not thrive and breed, so says BugsInCyberspace. I want them to breed and the last time I had millipedes they both died and I think it might have been because there was no rotting leaves and wood. It's not just food I don't think. I don't want to to just throw it in so they can eat it. I don't think my local petstore has grapevine, only grape_wood_, and that does not rot, I have some in my scorpion cage. I'm sorry if I sound stupid right now.


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## catfishrod69 (Oct 30, 2011)

go out into the woods and find some well decomposing wood...i also used to feed my millies some calcium powder, and a little goldfish flakes here and there, and they loved carrots....





Tarantel said:


> I need to mix rotting wood and leave into the substrate or my millipedes will not thrive and breed, so says BugsInCyberspace. I want them to breed and the last time I had millipedes they both died and I think it might have been because there was no rotting leaves and wood. It's not just food I don't think. I don't want to to just throw it in so they can eat it. I don't think my local petstore has grapevine, only grape_wood_, and that does not rot, I have some in my scorpion cage. I'm sorry if I sound stupid right now.


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## Tarantel (Oct 30, 2011)

catfishrod69 said:


> go out into the woods and find some well decomposing wood...i also used to feed my millies some calcium powder, and a little goldfish flakes here and there, and they loved carrots....


I did that. The wood I found was pine, according to my dad. I think pine is toxic, and a softwood.

I could find more, try to make sure it is from oak or birch or some other hardwood, but how would I know there wasn't pine mixed in?


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## catfishrod69 (Oct 30, 2011)

yeah pine is usually toxic, and it is definitely a soft wood...i have done alot of logging/sawmilling in my time, so can name pretty much any tree i see...but yeah oak or birch, hickory, osage orange, elm...all those would be good....as far as pine mixed in...you must live where there are alot...just go to a part of the woods where you cant find any evergreens at all..and look there...





Tarantel said:


> I did that. The wood I found was pine, according to my dad. I think pine is toxic, and a softwood.
> 
> I could find more, try to make sure it is from oak or birch or some other hardwood, but how would I know there wasn't pine mixed in?


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## KyuZo (Oct 30, 2011)

i think that i meant to say grape wood. i think that they rot and mold easier because there might be a bit of sugar in them.  you just need to add them to a moist substrate.  they rot really easily.


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## Tarantel (Oct 30, 2011)

I have grapewood and keep it in my scorpion cage and my hermit crab cage. The grapewood was developed some mold but has not rotted. Both terrariums are kept moist. At least one grapewood is partially buried in the substrate. I might add some grapewood to my millipede container when I get it though, just in case.


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## Elytra and Antenna (Oct 31, 2011)

You live in Ohio and you really can't find fallen oak leaves this time of year?


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## Tarantel (Oct 31, 2011)

Elytra and Antenna said:


> You live in Ohio and you really can't find fallen oak leaves this time of year?


I never said I lived in Ohio and I never said I couldn't find oak leaves. I was just worried that perhaps the oak wood/leaves would end up being mixed with pine, and I'd have a few dead or uncomfortable millipedes on my hands.


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## Elytra and Antenna (Oct 31, 2011)

Tarantel said:


> I never said I lived in Ohio and I never said I couldn't find oak leaves. I was just worried that perhaps the oak wood/leaves would end up being mixed with pine, and I'd have a few dead or uncomfortable millipedes on my hands.


 Where is Gliese 581 g? It sounded like you were talking about using rotten softwood or grapevine of which neither have been successfully used with millipedes. I did not see you mention that you have oak leaves but were worried pine was mixed in, only the worry with confusing rotten wood which can be hard to tell apart. A few pine needles would be no problem but it should be easy to separate oak leaves from pine needles.

---------- Post added 11-01-2011 at 01:35 AM ----------

I did a search and found out you live on a planet outside our solar system. I say just order the substrate from BIC, the stuff on your planet would probably kill them.


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## Tarantel (Oct 31, 2011)

Elytra and Antenna said:


> Where is Gliese 581 g? It sounded like you were talking about using rotten softwood or grapevine of which neither have been successfully used with millipedes. I did not see you mention that you have oak leaves but were worried pine was mixed in, only the worry with confusing rotten wood which can be hard to tell apart. A few pine needles would be no problem but it should be easy to separate oak leaves from pine needles.
> 
> ---------- Post added 11-01-2011 at 01:35 AM ----------
> 
> I did a search and found out you live on a planet outside our solar system. I say just order the substrate from BIC, the stuff on your planet would probably kill them.


You just made my signature. >) Tomorrow I'm going to go outside and find some rotting oak trees and take the wood and leaves.


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## Tarantel (Nov 1, 2011)

I did it, I got some. All I'm concerned about is that the leaves aren't really rotten, they were just on the ground. Will it still be OK? (I microwaved them of course)


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## Elytra and Antenna (Nov 2, 2011)

As long as they're brown and oak they should be acceptable. Dead leaves begin to decompose quickly but if you try to use green leaves you'll have excess sugar and nutrients that can attract and breed mites.  However, it will depend on your millipede species whether it will be a major or minor part of the diet. 
I don't see a quotation in your signature.


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## Tarantel (Nov 2, 2011)

I added it, and I can see it. I don't know why you don't see it. Should I mix the leaves and wood with dirt from outside (microwaved of course) and sphagnum/peat moss? Because I don't think a substrate made entirely of leaves/wood would look very good or natural.


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## Elytra and Antenna (Nov 2, 2011)

Usually a quote has a speaker. I see the text but it's not a quote. 
I'd go for coco fiber over the items you mention.


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## Tarantel (Nov 3, 2011)

Is there any specific way to breed ivory millipedes? Do they need extra heat or can they live and breed at room temperature? Also how do you quote someone in your signature?


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## Elytra and Antenna (Nov 3, 2011)

Tarantel said:


> Also how do you quote someone in your signature?


The same way you quote them in a reply. bar/quote=user bar " text " bar/quote bar
Ivory millipedes do fine at room temperature.


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## Tarantel (Nov 3, 2011)

And you just leave them in the terrarium together and they will breed?


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## KyuZo (Nov 3, 2011)

tarantel said:


> and you just leave them in the terrarium together and they will breed?


haha!!!! Yes!


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## Tarantel (Nov 4, 2011)

How many inches of substrate should I use? I was thinking maybe pure coco fiber at the bottom 1 or 2 inches then coco fiber mixed with rotting leaves and wood for the middle and then a layer of leaves on the top.


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## catfishrod69 (Nov 4, 2011)

i think about 5-6" would be good..


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## fartbreath (Nov 5, 2011)

People Eating Tasty Animals just cracked me up! Thanks!


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## Tarantel (Nov 5, 2011)

You're welcome.


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## Camden (Nov 6, 2011)

If you're buying from bugsincyberspace, he sells bags of "bug substrate" which is nothing more than a mixture of rotting wood and leaves. I would just be safe and buy that.


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## Tarantel (Nov 6, 2011)

I'm not buying from BIC anymore, and I think it's safe to collect some from outside. I microwaved it. 

---------- Post added 11-06-2011 at 11:14 AM ----------

I set up the container yesterday. It is a ten gallon tank with substrate as a mixture of coco fiber and sphagnum/peat moss on the bottom inch or so, then a mixture of coco fiber, rotting wood, peat moss and dry oak leaves in the middle few inches, and a coating of crushed oak leaves on top. What I want to know is if the moss will affect the millipedes in a negative way, because it would be a shame to have to redo this cage.


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## Tarantel (Nov 8, 2011)

Well, I got the millipedes today. He gave me 14 instead of ten )) and they seem to be OK. I'm thinking of buying a few different species and making a communal tank, I'm getting an AGB for Christmas and I might put that in there. Something tells me I might have given them to much space because I can't see them now and it's hard to find them even when digging through the substrate.


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## catfishrod69 (Nov 8, 2011)

glad everything worked out...im not sure if different species together is a good idea or not...might wanna see what others say...AGBs are cool...i used to have a couple a long time ago..thought about getting some more, but have steered away from millies...and if you cant find them, they are happy


Tarantel said:


> Well, I got the millipedes today. He gave me 14 instead of ten )) and they seem to be OK. I'm thinking of buying a few different species and making a communal tank, I'm getting an AGB for my birthday and I might put that in there. Something tells me I might have given them to much space because I can't see them now and it's hard to find them even when digging through the substrate.


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## Tarantel (Nov 8, 2011)

Yeah I made a thread on that a while back. I emailed the guy who runs bugsincyberspace and he said he didn't think there was much of a risk of disease transmission. I'm Definatly going to try it with some cheaper and smaller millipedes but might or might not risk a 60 dollar agb. I may do it. Just to see if it works out. An experiment.


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## Tarantel (Nov 9, 2011)

Also how many millipedes can fit in a ten gallon tank? Any ideas to get them to come up to the surface more? Add more? Add hides?


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## KyuZo (Nov 9, 2011)

once they settle in, then they'll start to come out more.  you just got them so they are a bit shaken up.  give it a week of putting in food and no disturbance.  a ten gallons is plenty.


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## Tarantel (Nov 9, 2011)

Is there still room for more do you think?


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## KyuZo (Nov 9, 2011)

there is still room for more


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## Tarantel (Nov 9, 2011)

How many more? Would there be room for an AGB?


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## KyuZo (Nov 9, 2011)

yes, there would still be enough room for an AGB.


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## Tarantel (Nov 9, 2011)

Would there still be room for an AGB and smaller millipedes? If so how many?


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## KyuZo (Nov 9, 2011)

you can probably fit 30 Fl ivory and that one ABG in your ten gallons tank comfortably.


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## Tarantel (Nov 12, 2011)

I have decided not to get an AGB and not to put it in the communal tank. (I know, I know, make up my mind already.) Instead I'll get a glossy black pinkleg (almost as big, prettier, cheaper) and put it in a seperate 2.5 gallon. For the communal tank I will get a few more species of millipedes other than the ivorys, such as bumblebee 'pedes, _Orthropus ornatus_ and _Narceus_ sp. Without the AGB I'll be able to fit about 50 in there correct? Should I count the _Orthropus ornatus_ as two millipedes because they are bigger than most?   Also I have heard from a few places that millipedes should be given a source of calcium to help them molt. Is this true and if so what should I give them for calcium?


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## KyuZo (Nov 12, 2011)

what Orthropus ornatus morph are you looking to get?  i put my ivory millipedes in with my ABG's without any problem.

and use a cuttle bone for calcium


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## Tarantel (Nov 12, 2011)

I'm thinking of getting the Sonoran desert morph. I might put some isopods in there with the millipedes too.


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## Tarantel (Nov 13, 2011)

Also should I cover part of the screen lid so it doesn't dry out so easy because it seems to dry out really easily.


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## KyuZo (Nov 13, 2011)

if you pour water into the substrate (just enough to keep it moist), then it'll take a while to dry up.  don't pour so much that it's damp or muddy in the tank.


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## Tarantel (Nov 13, 2011)

Thanks. Should I count the ornatus as two millipedes? And how many should I count the isopods as?


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## Tarantel (Nov 13, 2011)

And are crushed eggshells good for providing calcium?


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## Tarantel (Nov 13, 2011)

*Ordered the millipedes!*

I ordered the millipedes! 1 _Dendrostreptus macracanthus_ giant glossy black pinkleg millipede, 4 _Orthoporus ornatus _Sonoran desert millipedes , 5 _Trigoniulus corallinus _scarlet millipedes, 15 _Armadillidium_ spp. pillbugs from BugsInCyberspace.com. They should be here on 11/15/2011!


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## KyuZo (Nov 14, 2011)

Tarantel said:


> And are crushed eggshells good for providing calcium?


i give my millipedes a dog kibble once a week.  there is calcium in it.  that's pretty much all the calcium i give my millipedes.


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## Tarantel (Nov 14, 2011)

OK, thanks. I'm still thinking I should cover part of my screen lid with clear tape to keep in moisture. Should I?


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## zonbonzovi (Nov 15, 2011)

Tarantel said:


> OK, thanks. I'm still thinking I should cover part of my screen lid with clear tape to keep in moisture. Should I?


You should cover most of your screen lid and monitor it to see how fast things dry out.  Many of those species will buy the farm if it's too dry.  Don't forget pics


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## Tarantel (Nov 16, 2011)

My mom thinks the tape has toxins on it or something that will hurt the millipedes. It won't right? Also I have a 2.5 gallon tank which I'm going to put my pinkleg millipede in but it just has a solid glass lid with no/next to no ventilation. Can I use it do I need to find something else? I'll post some pictures later.


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## ScarecrowGirl (Nov 16, 2011)

Do you have plastic wrap or wax paper that you could tape to the lid instead of using just clear tape? Tape does have a funky smell in quantity, especially packing tape, I dont know about scotch tape.


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## Tarantel (Nov 17, 2011)

One of the millipedes I'm getting is a giant pinkleg millipede. Do they have a seperate care requirement from the others? Is their diet mainly leaves or the vegetables I give them? I have a 2.5 gallon tank and a critter keeper about the same size, a little taller. The 2.5 has almost no ventilation and the critter keeper has a lot of ventilation. Which should I use?


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## zonbonzovi (Nov 17, 2011)

Almost no ventilation.  Screen tops/high ventilation are trouble for creatures that breathe in the manner that these do.  Almost all millipedes will be found in moist leaf litter which implies lower ventilation but you already knew that because you've been reading up extensively on your new pets, right?  More reading will answer the food question and I wouldn't want get in the way of your motivation to read by simply answering that particular question.  Good luck and gawdspeed!


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## Tarantel (Nov 17, 2011)

I was kind of concerned because the "almost no ventilation" I mentioned was a solid glass top. I've read that stagnant air can kill them.


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## Tarantel (Nov 17, 2011)

Alright, so I was microwaving some leaves and I took them out of the microwave. I went to tell my dad something and when I came back _THE BAG OF LEAVES WAS ON FIRE!_ Thankfully we put it out but me and my dad both agreed that that would be the last time we microwaved a bag of leaves. However my millipedes are still coming tomorrow and I need to sterilize the leaves. Would boiling or freezing work just as well as microwaving?


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## jt39565 (Nov 17, 2011)

Freeze them, malking sure they are room temp when introducing the millies.


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## Tarantel (Nov 17, 2011)

So CAN stagnant air kill them? Will the glass top be safe?


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## KyuZo (Nov 17, 2011)

Tarantel said:


> Alright, so I was microwaving some leaves and I took them out of the microwave. I went to tell my dad something and when I came back _THE BAG OF LEAVES WAS ON FIRE!_ Thankfully we put it out but me and my dad both agreed that that would be the last time we microwaved a bag of leaves. However my millipedes are still coming tomorrow and I need to sterilize the leaves. Would boiling or freezing work just as well as microwaving?


Lol, i think that it's better that we learn from our mistakes sometime.  good time ehh?


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## Tarantel (Nov 17, 2011)

KyuZo said:


> Lol, i think that it's better that we learn from our mistakes sometime.  good time ehh?


          Yeah. :U it was actually kind of funny after it happened because nothing was damaged and because of how crazy it was. I probably should have known what was about to happen because the bag was smoking when I took it out (that's what I was telling my dad).


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## catfishrod69 (Nov 18, 2011)

i did the same thing...only McDonalds fries, and went to the crapper.....





Tarantel said:


> Alright, so I was microwaving some leaves and I took them out of the microwave. I went to tell my dad something and when I came back _THE BAG OF LEAVES WAS ON FIRE!_ Thankfully we put it out but me and my dad both agreed that that would be the last time we microwaved a bag of leaves. However my millipedes are still coming tomorrow and I need to sterilize the leaves. Would boiling or freezing work just as well as microwaving?


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## Tarantel (Nov 18, 2011)

Alright. I froze the leaves, and put them in the 2.5 gallon with the glass top. I also added some plastic wrap to the top of my normal milli enclosure. However it doesn't seem to have any effect. Should I tape it over some more so it blocks more air and/or cover another 10 or 15 %?


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## Tarantel (Nov 19, 2011)

I got my millipede order from BIC today. Everything seemed to be in order except for one Sonoran desert 'pede who seemed very clumsy and couldn't get a good grip on my hand. I had him on my hand and was walking towards the cage to put him in with the others in the communal tank, and he dropped off my hands and onto the floor. He seemed OK before I dropped him but now he's just rolled into a ball and not moving. I left him in the little cup he came in and went to make this post. Will he be alright? Should I just put him back in the cage or leave him in the cup? Please help.


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## KyuZo (Nov 19, 2011)

if he is not alright, is there anything else that you can do for him? and why are you keeping him in the cup?


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## Tarantel (Nov 19, 2011)

I don't know I thought it might be safer for him. Maybe it was a mistake. He's dead now I think.  I don't know what else I can do for him that's why I posted on the boards.


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## Camden (Nov 19, 2011)

Put it in the tank...it's just shook up from shipping. it's fine. (Should be.)


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## Tarantel (Nov 19, 2011)

It is completely limp and does not recurl when I uncurl it. It has no reaction when I pick it up. It's dead. 

If it was fine, it wasn't after I dropped it and most certainly isn't now.


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## KyuZo (Nov 19, 2011)

i'm sorry to hear that.


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## Tarantel (Nov 19, 2011)

Yeah, totally my fault. I don't blame BIC for the death. I handled one of the larger Sonoran desert millipedes a few minutes ago and it didn't seem to have a similar problem hanging on, though it did slip a bit once. Anyone know how to tell a male from female?


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## Tarantel (Nov 19, 2011)

My communal tank seems to be doing good so far, but the Sonoran desert millipedes have not borrowed at all, they just stay on the surface. Also, I haven't really seen too much of the ivory millipedes since the others were introduced. Is any of this abnormal behavior?


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## KyuZo (Nov 19, 2011)

picturesssssss

to answer your question, it's normal


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## Tarantel (Nov 19, 2011)

I'm going to make a thread in the vivariums forum and post the pics there. I can post some here too if you need me to. They are downloading onto my computer now.


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## Tarantel (Nov 19, 2011)

Alright here are some pics.

All of these (except the pinkleg) are also posted on my Communal Millipede Tank thread.

The walls of the pinklegs tank have some condensation on them. There are only two tiny holes providing ventilation and the rest is all glass. Can't stagnant air keep them from breathing or harm them in some other way?

Edit: A few seconds after making this post I walked into my closet and saw the pinkleg hanging from the ceiling of her tank. As I watched, she slowly, carefully made her way down. The drop from ceiling to floor is only about two or three inches onto a soft bedding of leaves. Should I be concerned? Isn't this species arboreal or at least partially arboreal anyway? Should I put a bit of cork bark in there to climb on or something?


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## Tarantel (Nov 20, 2011)

I'm thinking maybe of buying a screen lid for the pinkleg and covering most of it with tape the way I did with the other tank.

Or maybe moving it to the critter keeper and blocking off some of the vents on that. Do I have nothing to be worried about because there is condensation building up on the walls and ceiling and I don't want my millipede to die.


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## Camden (Nov 20, 2011)

Looks good but it looks dry..Make sure to keep it moist.
Oh, and just a time and money saver, they dont 'need' that much substrate, it wont hurt them, but that much isn't necessary.


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## Tarantel (Nov 20, 2011)

I like it having that much substrate, it makes it look more natural, plus they probably like it more. It is usually somewhat moist. I stuck my finger in there and it is starting to dry out so I poured some water on the substrate.


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## Tarantel (Nov 20, 2011)

So should I move my pinkleg to the critter keeper where there is more ventilation and cover some of with plastic wrap like the ten gallon?


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## KyuZo (Nov 20, 2011)

i think that you're making things more complicated than it is.  you're going to stress out your bugs by moving them around.  I'm have been keeping one of my millipedes on a paper towel with food and a water dish for 3 weeks now and it's doing fine.  

and i put one in a cup of water just to see how hardy they are.  after 12 hours and it's still moving.  i brought it out and in a few hours it acted like nothing happens.


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## Tarantel (Nov 20, 2011)

I guess it will be fine then. But.... why would you do that to a millipede?


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## KyuZo (Nov 20, 2011)

if i didn't do that, then how will i know.  

they live on the ground in the soil, so i'm sure that they have been exposed and adapted to flooding.  I just wanted to test it out.


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## Tarantel (Nov 20, 2011)

Alright then. Interesting that it survived.


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## Fyreflye (Nov 20, 2011)

KyuZo said:


> if i didn't do that, then how will i know.
> 
> they live on the ground in the soil, so i'm sure that they have been exposed and adapted to flooding.  I just wanted to test it out.


Hm...well...seems like a lot of unnecessary work with the possibility of a tragic outcome, when you could have come by this information by doing some reading.  Or asking.    I really recommend you get some books on millipede care.  Giant Millipedes: The Enthusiasts Handbook is a good one.


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## KyuZo (Nov 20, 2011)

Lol, i had a feeling that some people are not going to like to hear this kind of stuff.   some of the info written in some books are outdated.


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## Tarantel (Nov 20, 2011)

Fyreflye said:


> Hm...well...seems like a lot of unnecessary work with the possibility of a tragic outcome, when you could have come by this information by doing some reading.  Or asking.    I really recommend you get some books on millipede care.  Giant Millipedes: The Enthusiasts Handbook is a good one.


Now that you mention it I should probably get that book too. (You WERE talking to KyuZo right?)


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## Fyreflye (Nov 21, 2011)

Tarantel said:


> Now that you mention it I should probably get that book too. (You WERE talking to KyuZo right?)


My comment was directed at him, but I was hoping you'd see it as a good idea for yourself as well.    The more you learn, the better you can care for your pets.


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## KyuZo (Nov 21, 2011)

Fyreflye said:


> Hm...well...seems like a lot of unnecessary work with the possibility of a tragic outcome, when you could have come by this information by doing some reading.  Or asking.    I really recommend you get some books on millipede care.  Giant Millipedes: The Enthusiasts Handbook is a good one.


now some guy is going to read this stuff, take the data, and put it in his book and end up being a hero, while i would look like the cruel guy that thought out the logical theory. 

the only books that i read now are text books for school.  all my hobby researches are done via the internet and with some experimental. 

some people just tend to read stuff or just watch tv and take things how they are presented to them.  you should try to ask the critical questions.  thinking that you can learn everything by reading an outdated book is wishful thinking.  
so you've read that "Giant Millipedes" book that you've mentioned.  now if i was to ask you about the outcome of my experiment, do you think that you would know the answer to my question?  

"a lot of unnecessary work" ???? dropping a millipede into a deli cup of water is not a lot of work, but if you don't want to do any work, then it might be a different story.


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## Tarantel (Nov 21, 2011)

KyuZo said:


> you should try to ask the critical questions.  thinking that you can learn everything by reading an outdated book is wishful thinking.


Why do you assume that the info is outdated?


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## KyuZo (Nov 21, 2011)

Tarantel said:


> Why do you assume that the info is outdated?


well, if you use your critical thinking and think about it instead of popping random questions out left and right, then you can probably look up the publish date and find out when it was written.


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## Tarantel (Nov 21, 2011)

2005. Not too long ago. Even if a few things are outdated that doesn't make it useless. And whats wrong with "popping random questions out left and right"? Isn't asking and answering questions kind of the point of the forum?


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## KyuZo (Nov 21, 2011)

Tarantel said:


> 2005. Not too long ago. Even if a few things are outdated that doesn't make it useless. And whats wrong with "popping random questions out left and right"? Isn't asking and answering questions kind of the point of the forum?


yes, you can, but i'm just making a point.  if you just think about it, you can probably come up with the answer.


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## Fyreflye (Nov 21, 2011)

KyuZo said:


> now some guy is going to read this stuff, take the data, and put it in his book and end up being a hero, while i would look like the cruel guy that thought out the logical theory.


Actually, the author of the Millipede Enthusiasts Handbook shared a story in which one of his millipede tanks was accidentally flooded during an incident with a malfunctioning aquarium filter.  The pedes were immersed in salt water for an entire day, but nearly all of them survived the event unharmed.  



> so you've read that "Giant Millipedes" book that you've mentioned. now if i was to ask you about the outcome of my experiment, do you think that you would know the answer to my question?


Absolutely.  Had you asked your peers about their experiences and knowledge of millipedes surviving extreme conditions, I'm sure the members of this forum would have some stories of their own to share, including the evidence that pedes can be hard to drown.



> "a lot of unnecessary work" ???? dropping a millipede into a deli cup of water is not a lot of work, but if you don't want to do any work, then it might be a different story.


I was trying to politely imply that it was _unnecessary_ because it was, to a point, an unnecessary cruelty.  Intentionally immersing a creature in water knowing very well that death by drowning could be an outcome, just out of curiosity?  Just because the creature in question cannot experience fear or pain (that we know of), doesn't mean that it's life has no value.  

The book that I mentioned was written in 2005.  It is hardly out-dated.  There are very few books about millipede care out there, which is unfortunate.  I recommended this one because it's author has a lot of personal experience successfully raising and breeding millipedes, and seems to have a genuine interest in improving the care standard for the hobby.


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## KyuZo (Nov 21, 2011)

well, i don't know if the author had an accident drowning the millipedes in salt water or they were submerged, but seeing how someone like you reacted to having a millipede put in water, i can see why the data was presented to you the way it is... "it was just an accident"

and there is nothing wrong with trying to figure things out, you might even discover something new along the way that can help bring benefits to the hobby.  

someone finally figured out how to sex a living centipede just 2-3 years ago.  so our hobby is picking up new information almost every year.  2005 is not up to date, we're reaching 2012, so you do the math.


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## Tarantel (Nov 21, 2011)

KyuZo said:


> but seeing how someone like you reacted to having a millipede.....


_Someone like him?_


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## KyuZo (Nov 21, 2011)

Tarantel said:


> _Someone like him?_


i don't think that i understand what you're trying to say with that three words question.  you should try to be more articulate.


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## Tarantel (Nov 21, 2011)

What I'm trying to say is that it is kind of, you know, snobbish, mean, to say "someone like you" like that. Or, now that I think about it "popping random questions out left and right" and "you should try to be more articulate". I'm sorry if you don't mean it that way but it just seems like that to me.


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## KyuZo (Nov 21, 2011)

some people would say that there are no such thing as stupid questions, but this in this thread, the main reason for it being so long is because there are questions in here that i believe otherwise.  there are just questions that seemed to be answer if you would just put some thoughts to it or do some research.  if snobbish meaning the difference between someone that put some use to their brain and the people that lack the effort, then yes. 

and then there was the repeated question like should i cover the screen or should i not and it was answered and the question was repeated.  were you just looking to get attention?


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## Fyreflye (Nov 21, 2011)

2005 is newer than my car, and it still works well.  Mostly.   

KyuZo, I disagree with your methods, but for me that's no reason to not try to get along anyways.  I only wish you felt the same way.

Tarantel, there is nothing stupid about your questions, but you do seem to have a lot of them!  I still think a good book would be a big help for you, as far as getting the information that you need about specific issues.  Also, make good use of the search function on these forums- chances are, someone's asked the same questions before, and gotten answers.


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## Tarantel (Nov 21, 2011)

KyuZo said:


> some people would say that there are no such thing as stupid questions, but this in this thread, the main reason for it being so long is because there are questions in here that i believe otherwise.  there are just questions that seemed to be answer if you would just put some thoughts to it or do some research.  if snobbish meaning the difference between someone that put some use to their brain and the people that lack the effort, then yes.
> 
> and then there was the repeated question like should i cover the screen or should i not and it was answered and the question was repeated.  were you just looking to get attention?


There is very little information on millipedes available on the web, and what information there is probably isn't extremely accurate on all matters, also isn't asking questions to people who know the answers a form of research? :? I'm sorry about the repeated questions. I felt I needed a bit more information on the screen so I asked again. Maybe that wasn't the best move.

Fyreflye, thank you for not being a jerk.  I just ordered that millipede book you told me about and I hope it will answer some of my questions so I don't have to come on these boards for all of them.


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## KyuZo (Nov 21, 2011)

Fyreflye said:


> KyuZo, I disagree with your methods, but for me that's no reason to not try to get along anyways.  I only wish you felt the same way.


yeah, you're right.  i do tend to say some pretty mean stuff when i get in a verbal argument, just to break people down... something that my drill instructors used to do.  
i need to work on being more patient.

and i'm sorry, i got caught up in the moment and what i had said was very harsh.


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## Tarantel (Nov 22, 2011)

KyuZo said:


> and i'm sorry, i got caught up in the moment and what i had said was very harsh.


That's OK, everyone does that sometimes.


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## zonbonzovi (Nov 22, 2011)

Aw, I always miss out on all the fun.

Just wanted to add that immersing centipedes(rather than their myriapod cousins) in water for certain lengths of time is a method for knocking out centipedes to be sexed.  It doesn't come up very often because of ensuing debates but it's effective and safe if administered by someone that is paying attention.  But that's for another thread.

E&A's book is a good one, esp. to get you started but as Orin would readily admit(I think), there are still variables that need to be worked out in order to make more millipedes.  This is where the diligent keeper thinking outside of the available literature will come into play.  What you find on the market is what you're going to get in the case of exotic species 'cause they just aren't bringing any more in (legally).


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## Tarantel (Nov 23, 2011)

Alright, I got that book. My doubts about the ventilation of the pinkleg were extinguished. In fact, the big one might have too much ventilation! I was about to put some more plastic wrap on it when I read that _Orthoporus ornatus_ need twice the ventilation of most millipedes. So I'm not sure if I should just leave it the way it is or put some more plastic on it. What do you think? Is this true? Right now I'm thinking just leave it the way it is.


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## ScarecrowGirl (Nov 23, 2011)

Tarantel said:


> Alright, I got that book. My doubts about the ventilation of the pinkleg were extinguished. In fact, the big one might have too much ventilation! I was about to put some more plastic wrap on it when I read that _Orthoporus ornatus_ need twice the ventilation of most millipedes. So I'm not sure if I should just leave it the way it is or put some more plastic on it. What do you think? Is this true? Right now I'm thinking just leave it the way it is.


I'd put money on leaving it the way it is, I'm not all to familiar with millis, but our tank isn't even covered by any thing but the screen lid and they are out ALL the time. We have the fall batch from BIC and a Orthoporus ornatus, the texas and the Ivory are out all the time, with frequent visits from the little bumble bee and the larger of the two scarlet's. But they have almost 5 inches of coconut substrate that they have tunnels through. I'm not looking any thing up here, but more just thinking out loud, When they come out of the ground they are in open air, so figure that what you have on there now is enough, and that so long as they aren't in shot of a vent in your house, the ventilation you have set up right now is just fine, if it wants less ventilation, it'll probably chill underground lol. I imagine that that most if not all millipedes are fair little tanks and that they can tough out a new owners anxiety. Don't worry quite so much  Take it easy and enjoy your new buddies! XD


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## Tarantel (Nov 24, 2011)

I asked a question in the very beginning of this thread about bumblebee millipede temperature requirements. My room is around 68 to 71 degrees around my millipede tank in the winter (now) but it will of corse be more in the summer. BIC says that bumblebee millipedes need 72 degrees. Is this true and can there be a temperature drop in the winter? Will they be ok? If not how can I increase the temperature without decreasing the moisture and humidity?


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## Tarantel (Nov 25, 2011)

Another question I have is, I think I have Narceus americanus in my backyard woods. Would it be ok to put wild collected millipedes in with my others? It's kind of a silly concern because they are all wild caught too but I wouldn't feel good just putting them in there without making sure.....


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## Tarantel (Nov 26, 2011)

Bump. Can someone answer my two questions?


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## Hasabumford (Nov 27, 2011)

For your first question: I've had a Bumblebee for a few months now (and living in Florida) the temperature has ranged from the low 90s to upper 50s and my pede is still doing just fine. They're pretty hardy!

As for your second question: I started off with a wild caught Florida ivory and a Narceus Gordanus that are currently living with my other pedes that I bought. I would guess it all depends if they have some "Crazy millipede death disease" or not. I think it would be fine. But I'm no expert like others on the boards.


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## Tarantel (Nov 27, 2011)

Thanks. I was thinking of adding some cockroaches and orange sowbugs to the tank. Does any one know any species sold on BugsInCyberspace.com that a) can live compatibly with all these millipede species (i.e will not disrupt mating or harm them in any way) b) are colorful, c) are sold as adults, not nymphs, d) preferably can't climb glass and e) not TOO big? Also, will the cockroaches need additional hides and a water dish with that silicon jelly stuff or will they be fine hiding under the leaves and drinking real water from the substrate and tank walls?


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## Tarantel (Nov 29, 2011)

Bump. Bump.


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## Camden (Nov 29, 2011)

Sow bugs or springtails will not disturb them. BIC sells them. I wouldn't put cockroaches in there with them.


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## Tarantel (Nov 29, 2011)

Really? I've heard from many places including BIC that cockroaches and mollipedes can coexist peacefully. What does anyone else think?


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## catfishrod69 (Nov 29, 2011)

yes they can...until the roaches eat them...





Tarantel said:


> Really? I've heard from many places including BIC that cockroaches and mollipedes can coexist peacefully. What does anyone else think?


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## Camden (Nov 29, 2011)

catfishrod69 said:


> yes they can...until the roaches eat them...


^^^ My point exactly. I wouldn't do it.


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## Elytra and Antenna (Nov 30, 2011)

I personally observed a 50 gallon-long terrarium at a local botanical garden around 2004 with a hundred or more captive bred AGBs and a hundred or more Blaberus giganteus. The keeper said they had been together for years and there was no question the AGBs which were mostly half-grown had of course grown up in there. Overcrowding is relative to the cage and animals and is likely to occur more rapidly with multiple species. Considering the only 'designer' isopod lines are mine I'd have the least interest in bashing isopod use with any animal but I would strongly suggest hobbyists not put them with millipedes.

---------- Post added 11-30-2011 at 01:49 PM ----------




Hasabumford said:


> For your first question: I've had a Bumblebee for a few months now (and living in Florida) the temperature has ranged from the low 90s to upper 50s and my pede is still doing just fine.


 Do you keep it outside raised above the ground with limited substrate to eliminate temperature buffering?


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## Tarantel (Nov 30, 2011)

Elytra and Antenna said:


> I personally observed a 50 gallon-long terrarium at a local botanical garden around 2004 with a hundred or more captive bred AGBs and a hundred or more Blaberus giganteus. The keeper said they had been together for years and there was no question the AGBs which were mostly half-grown had of course grown up in there. Overcrowding is relative to the cage and animals and is likely to occur more rapidly with multiple species. Considering the only 'designer' isopod lines are mine I'd have the least interest in bashing isopod use with any animal but I would strongly suggest hobbyists not put them with millipedes.


I already have some _Armadilidium_ in there. Why isn't it a good idea? Will they harm my millipedes?


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## Tarantel (Dec 1, 2011)

Buuuuuuuump?


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## Camden (Dec 1, 2011)

You have a lot of millis in one tank, adding more insects is just not a good idea, over-crowding can hurt your millipedes as far as molting and breeding goes.
As for the rest of your questions, google is a marvelous site.

Reactions: Like 2


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