# Centipede macro!



## Draiman (Dec 6, 2008)

I have 7 of these in a communal set-up. Enjoy!


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## jettubes (Dec 6, 2008)

whats the species? is it subspinipes?


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## nissan480 (Dec 7, 2008)

Those are some fantastic pics!

of mutilans


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## Draiman (Dec 7, 2008)

Yeah they are _Sc. subspinipes mutilans_ "Yellow Leg". Thanks for the compliment Nissan!

By the way, I just got bitten by one of them on my right thumb. Please do not ask why or how.

No immediate pain apart from the mechanical pain from the fang puncturing the skin. One puncture. Minimal or no swelling, but the area has turned red. Regular bursts of pain from the site, though nowhere near "the most intense pain you would ever experience", as some bite victims have claimed. This pain is easily half as intense as when I got bitten by my _Phlogiellus inermis_ (a tarantula), and perhaps 50 times milder than a wasp sting.

This is all for now, approximately 10 minutes after the bite. I will update if it gets worse.


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## Rick McJimsey (Dec 7, 2008)

Awesome pics!
You ever find red legs mutilans?


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## szappan (Dec 7, 2008)

Great photos Phark!!  :clap:


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## Draiman (Dec 8, 2008)

szappan said:


> Great photos Phark!!  :clap:


Thank you!  



Rick McJimsey said:


> Awesome pics!
> You ever find red legs mutilans?


Yeah I do have a Red Leg but its fangs are clipped, unfortunately. Thanks for the compliment!

By the way,

Last night, at about 1.40am local time, I set about trying to get bitten by one of my 5-to-6-inch long _Sc. subspinipes mutilans_. I handled one, got it onto my right hand. It must have decided I smelled like food, because it proceeded to bite me 3 times in 3 different places at the base of my right index finger. I gave it perhaps 10 seconds of bite time. Because of the 3 bites there were and still are 6 puncture wounds, 1 of which began to bleed a little. Initial pain was sharp, but that was probably the mechanical pain caused by the fangs. I quickly put the pede back in the tank, and soon the puncture wounds turned into white, slightly raised lumps, and there was a constant sharp pain as well as a tingling feeling. However the pain was manageable. By now it has been almost 12 hours since the incident and there is no more pain or swelling.

Tonight I would like to try getting bitten again to confirm the symptoms. It must be noted that this pede bit me THREE times and had its fangs in my skin for almost 10 seconds, and that it is over 13cm in length.

These pictures were taken approximately 10 minutes after I got bitten.


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## Choobaine (Dec 8, 2008)

I'd advise you wait a bit before you get bitten again, constant exposure to venom can trigger sensitivity, although this isn't always the case. Everyone reacts differently to venom and reactions can change with time depending on what you're exposed to as well. 
Another word of advice - don't mix venom - if you have an older bite, and you take another in a local area you'll find the original bite will be set off again and many symptoms including itching and swelling will return, with a vengeance often but I find this heavily depends on which species venom you get. 

S. s mutilans venom isn't all that interesting,you feel it almost immediately while say... Ethmostigmus venom rises to a peak after a few seconds. I find the pain short lived and followed by a day or two of swelling and somewhat disproportionate levels of itching. 

If you really *must* try it again, give it a week or so, see the whole cycle before you do more. Centipede bite effects don't stop after the pain, get to know all the effects, and be aware that it's highly probable with repeated bites the effects will get worse.


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## Draiman (Dec 8, 2008)

Choobaine said:


> and be aware that it's highly probable *with repeated bites the effects will get worse*.


Is this really true?

Thanks for the warning by the way.


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## Choobaine (Dec 8, 2008)

Your body can develop sensitivity to venom. Sometimes it takes many bites for this to happen, sometimes it's abrupt, depends on the individual... however taking too many bites close together in time or mixing species venom can bring it on faster in my experience, everyone varies though I'd still watch out.
I'll look you up some info later


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## Draiman (Dec 8, 2008)

I see. What causes this sensitivity?


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## cjm1991 (Dec 8, 2008)

We have mutilans bites, and know what they do to the average person. Try getting tagged by things no one has been bit by yet and maybe your name will be taken down for something. I have a few bite reports that made documentation. Nice close ups though, what they eatin?


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## Draiman (Dec 8, 2008)

cjm1991 said:


> We have mutilans bites, and know what they do to the average person. Try getting tagged by things no one has been bit by yet and maybe your name will be taken down for something. I have a few bite reports that made documentation. Nice close ups though, what they eatin?


Chunks of prawn. Have you been bitten by mutilans before?


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## cjm1991 (Dec 8, 2008)

Phark said:


> Chunks of prawn. Have you been bitten by mutilans before?


No actually, I had a couple yellow leg mutilans before for over a year and was never tagged. I didnt try to get bit though. I have been bit by a 6" Subspinipes subspinipes though, it was pretty much... Eh.. good word would be Hell. I wanted to cut my entire arm off.

Heres a pic from when I got it. I was always curious on its ID but between S.S, or Indonesian Black Tip.


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## Draiman (Dec 8, 2008)

Man that must've sucked. That's a great looking pede though. What happened to the Mutilans?


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## Comatose (Dec 8, 2008)

*I'm so dumb...*

What is Macro Photography...and I mean what defines it as opposed to normal photography?


VERY nice looking pede's and pics!


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## cjm1991 (Dec 8, 2008)

Phark said:


> Man that must've sucked. That's a great looking pede though. What happened to the Mutilans?


They died. They were already sub adults when I got them.


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## Rick McJimsey (Dec 8, 2008)

Comatose said:


> What is Macro Photography...and I mean what defines it as opposed to normal photography?
> 
> 
> VERY nice looking pede's and pics!


Macro photography is like up close photography.
The lens focuses much closer, allowing you to see details that would go unnoticed in normal photography.


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## Comatose (Dec 8, 2008)

So you use a special lense then? Again, apologies for going off topic and being stupid.


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## Draiman (Dec 9, 2008)

Comatose said:


> So you use a special lense then? Again, apologies for going off topic and being stupid.


Not really. I use the kit lens (Nikkor 18-55mm) fitted with a macro filter, which is of course a much cheaper alternative to a dedicated macro lens. Asking questions to learn something new isn't stupid.


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## Choobaine (Dec 9, 2008)

cjm1991 said:


> We have mutilans bites, and know what they do to the average person. Try getting tagged by things no one has been bit by yet and maybe your name will be taken down for something.


I have to disagree with you here, there's no need to disregard a common species bite - everyone reacts so very differently to venom. The more people that can accurately document the effects and sensations should they get tagged get the more accurate the picture of the venom effects on the body we can paint although since most of us are hobbyists, not scientists, it's only a weak reference in the hobby, if anything.
If one person takes a single bite from a centipede it is usually of next to no scientific value, it can be interesting, but to science, it's useless, it's little more than word of mouth. Unless it's for your own pleasure it's probably of no value at all. 

To be completely honest with you - most bites are worth very little - you would need to document every last detail down to the second as well as height and weight and such and compare it to other results, none of our testing efforts are worth jack without a control.

For future reference - I do not oppose handling or taking bites of *MOST* species (unless you're under eighteen, then as far as I'm concerned you're putting the hobby at risk) and I do it myself often for pleasure, but I'm just pointing out - there's very little you can do that will be of any use to science, and the greater good of mankind.


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## Draiman (Dec 9, 2008)

Choobaine said:


> I do not oppose handling or taking bites of *MOST* species (*unless you're under eighteen, then as far as I'm concerned you're putting the hobby at risk*)


I'm wondering - in what way is the above true?


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## Choobaine (Dec 9, 2008)

if you're under eighteen (at least in the United Kingdom) you're a minor. If you're a minor, regardless of how mature you may be you're seen in the eyes of the law, and society in general, as a child. Children are absolute media magnets and if they get tagged by a highly venomous invert it's not just the child that is responsible - the parents are held partly responsible too. While the UK is very loose with laws for keeping exotics we don't need a negative media flush, and in the states? I can only imagine the potential  chaos. 

Honestly if you're tagged by a medically significant, or at least somewhat potent animal, it's your fault, you deserved it, get up and deal with it, if it's a hot, darwin will deal with you, with a kid, it's a whole different story, it's more trouble than it's worth. 

I'm not saying kids shouldn't keep inverts either, before someone tries to put words in my mouth, I'm just saying watch what your kid keeps, or tries to pick up, low common sense and high hormones mixed with potent animals is pretty much a recipe for disaster.


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## Draiman (Dec 9, 2008)

Choobaine said:


> I'm just saying watch what your kid keeps, or tries to pick up, *low common sense* and high hormones mixed with potent animals is pretty much a recipe for disaster.


I completely agreed with your post until I read the words highlighted in bold above.

Surely you can't make such a sweeping statement and say all kids have "low common sense"? It is true some do drugs and sleep around - and that is indeed lacking in common sense; but not all adolescents behave like that, do they?


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## Choobaine (Dec 9, 2008)

> regardless of how mature you may be you're seen in the eyes of the law, and society in general, as a child


See above. There of course will be competent youngsters, I know some of them and can vouch for that, but we all know it, and it still stands, the vast majority of young people are both physically and mentally less mature than adults, there's a thread dealing with this in the tarantula section too. 
I study advertising and marketing, trust me, the economy runs on sweeping general statements. There is a very good reason that someone under 18 is considered a child, the reason is their behaviour is not as mature, that's the long and short of it. 
I hope you can understand where I'm coming from.


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## Draiman (Dec 9, 2008)

Choobaine said:


> See above. There of course will be competent youngsters, I know some of them and can vouch for that, but we all know it, and it still stands, the vast majority of young people are both physically and mentally less mature than adults, there's a thread dealing with this in the tarantula section too.
> I study advertising and marketing, trust me, the economy runs on sweeping general statements. There is a very good reason that someone under 18 is considered a child, the reason is their behaviour is not as mature, that's the long and short of it.
> I hope you can understand where I'm coming from.


Yeah you're right. Regrettably, that's the case everywhere around the world.

By the way, how do you manage to post a reply while you're offline??


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## Rick McJimsey (Dec 9, 2008)

Phark said:


> By the way, how do you manage to post a reply while you're offline??


Her profile is set to invisible mode


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## Draiman (Dec 9, 2008)

Rick McJimsey said:


> Awesome pics!
> You ever find red legs mutilans?


Just took a picture of my one and only RedLeg.







And one new pic of one of my Yellows.


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## cjm1991 (Dec 9, 2008)

Choobaine said:


> I have to disagree with you here, there's no need to disregard a common species bite - everyone reacts so very differently to venom. The more people that can accurately document the effects and sensations should they get tagged get the more accurate the picture of the venom effects on the body we can paint although since most of us are hobbyists, not scientists, it's only a weak reference in the hobby, if anything.
> If one person takes a single bite from a centipede it is usually of next to no scientific value, it can be interesting, but to science, it's useless, it's little more than word of mouth. Unless it's for your own pleasure it's probably of no value at all.
> 
> To be completely honest with you - most bites are worth very little - you would need to document every last detail down to the second as well as height and weight and such and compare it to other results, none of our testing efforts are worth jack without a control.
> ...


I disagree. If one person is affected to the point of being hospitalized, or even a few people for a certain species, it makes alot more difference than a freak allergic reaction on one person. How can you seriously say that? In my opinion, someone who gets tagged by a unknown sp., or one that has not had a recorded bite and its medically sufficient to the point of hospitalization, it definately would be recorded from start to finish, and could possibly save someone who is looking for bite info after they get tagged by the same sp. of pede. Well lets say they google it, a bite report will come up on AB and they can get medical attention. If not for scientific research like your suggesting, then for the possible victom of the same bite.


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## Choobaine (Dec 9, 2008)

I'd really rather you didn't assume you know what I have and have not been bitten by, and what I do and do not enjoy, you've already lost all credibility in my eyes, don't make it worse with assumptions. 
Secondly there's a very good reason I keep most handling/envenomation to myself, and I've gone over that earlier.

Now on to what you've said - 

Since you missed the point of what I was talking about I'll recap: 
It's not worth very much to science and proper research for the following reasons:

1) there is no control 
2) it is mostly anecdotal
3) venom responses are highly variable in people

There are many accounts of bites from various species on people, and there have been many studies of centipede venom effects on both people and animals, we know how most centipede venom affects vertebrates. There isn't really much you can do for a centipede bite.

"Despite the striking appearance of the offender and the significant pain associated with a sting, treatment for centipede envenomation is essentially pain control and routine wound care." - from a case report on centipede envenomation - SEAN P. BUSH, MD; BRADLEY O. KING, MD; ROBERT L. NORRIS, MD; SCOTT A. STOCKWELL, PhD

As regards to exotic centipedes from tropical countries (not just the general stock we get in the hobby, because we have to face the fact there are very few specialized hobbyists and not an insane amount of availability/variety for the average hobbyist to get envenomated by) there's things like this. 

"The occasional serious symptoms caused when adults are bitten suggest that fatalities could occur amongst small children but such cases must be extremely rare. The animals invariably escape after biting and therefore many reports must be, as Cornwall pointed out, unreliable." - the effects of centipede bites on man - The biology of centipedes - J. G. E. Lewis

I am not against bite reports mind, they're interesting, useful (since most commonly available species have been covered), but the likelihood of a bite report being a lifesaver is well... not very big. We pretty much know what happens from the bites of the vast majority of centipedes and as it stands, we are starting to learn a lot about the composition of the venom as well. We aren't dealing with scorpions, as above mentioned, fatality is not a massive concern. All taking a centipede bite for most of us can achieve is telling us the flavor. I find every genus has it's own flavor, some are sweet, crisp and intoxicating, some fluctuating yet persistent, the goosebump inducing bone-ache, that's why I enjoy venom but I'm not going to sit here and act like I'm contributing something major, because I'm not, neither are you. If it's medically significant, we get treatment, same all round, unless there's a series of scientific experiments to find a better treatment that is not going to change.


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## cjm1991 (Dec 9, 2008)

Choobaine said:


> I'd really rather you didn't assume you know what I have and have not been bitten by, and what I do and do not enjoy, you've already lost all credibility in my eyes, don't make it worse with assumptions.
> 
> *Uhmm Ive never heard of you or seen you anywhere, therefore your not as important as you think, think what you want of me I have an assumption of you as well?*
> 
> ...


Im not trying to make some amazing discovery, please. Im telling you that if someone in the hobby(sense thats who is most likely to get tagged by a pede) gets bit then they can simply look up and see what someone has gone through. Maybe if more people did this with the same type of pede we would have an understanding of what will most likely happen after you have been bit. Nothing more or less, you are just trying to make me understand something im not interested in. Kind of off topic really, all of it. Your trying to sit and explain why us getting bit and recording it in the bite reports is not going to change anything, when your wrong. Even if it does not make a huge difference it may help someone in our hobby that gets tagged out of nowhere, because most people dont enjoy pain(not normal, sorry to tell you theres something not quite right about that, call me crazy but I dont care what you have bite you?) and let pedes bite them.


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