# General Wasp Keeper's Information Thread: Volume Two



## Stylopidae

This is a follow up to the article I posted last year on wasp keeping, which Tleilaxu and other members also played a huge part. I did make a few mistakes, which I corrected this year...first and foremost being the time of capture.

Last year, I made the mistake of exposing the colony's foundress to direct sunlight for about five minutes during relocation (the drive to my house from the capture site). She never fully recovered and eventually passed away after a few days. The other colony's members did eventually step up, raising the grubs up to adults and building onto the nest. However, none of them laid eggs. I don't know if the Polistes genus is one of those that can't spawn a new queen or if something is required for a worker to make that jump. This is a subject for further research.

The method of capture remains the same as the other article. The only thing that's changed is the time. I captured this nest at night. This foundress decided to build her colony in the same place as the colony I captured last year did.

To capture the foundress, I simply took a super soaker squirt gun and filled it with ice water. The cold immobilized her so she couldn't fly away or sting me. After the foundress or any other possible workers are out of the way, the nest can be safely harvested by hand. The grubs don't sting...but you'll want to make sure the workers are out of the way.

You are going to want to harvest your nest at the beginning of the summer, when the nests are still relatively small. There are two reasons for this.

1.) The nests are still small. You don't have to worry about dozens of angry workers swarming you at once.

2.) The foundress is easily discernable. Generally, the foundress likes to keep her first generation of workers small (she does this by feeding the grubs less) to avoid any struggles for dominance when they emerge. Thus, at the beginning of the summer the foundress will always be the biggest wasp in the nest. If you lose a few workers, it won't matter. However, if you lose the foundress you will have to try again the following night.

Here is the nest I captured:







You can see the grubs and the one cell that's covered up belongs to a grub about to form itself into a pupa.

I'd like to make a special note of this: Generally, the safest time you're going to find to capture the wasp's nest is during the day, when it's easier to see what you're doing. Capturing the colony at night is simply what worked for me the best.

After you're done capturing the colony, it's generally a good idea to refridgerate the foundress for a few minutes. I didn't find this neccesary.

The second thing I'm changing wasn't really a mistake. I found the CD spindle design easy enough to use, but I did have a few problems with escapes that new keepers wouldn't really want to deal with.

This year, I decided to set up the colony in a 5 gallon tank instead of a CD spindle. I especially like this version, it gives me room to observe the colony's interactions with each other and allows easier maintenance. If you're going to use a tank, it's preferable to use a model with a sliding top. We'll get to this later.







If you're working on this late at night (these pictures were taken at like two in the morning) caffine isn't a bad idea because a pissed off vespid will likely be moving faster than you will.

I'd like to thank this guy for letting me finish this project in half an hour, and also keeping me alert enough to not be foolish: (well, kind of)







The next step is to prepare the tank. A lot of people like to keep their wasp nests out in the open surrounded by nothing but clear plastic. This is for visibility.

I don't like to do this. I found my colony last year spent much more time looking at me (we'll get to this behaivior later) than they did interacting amongst themselves. To combat this, I used a modified cardboard box to create sort of a 'fence' (for lack of a better term) around the colony to make them feel safe. You might have to cut a cardboard box to size. Here's how I made mine:

First, I took a box that someone had shipped stuff to me in and cut it like so:







Then, I cut that part off. I then cut two peices off the scraps and glued them to form something that looked like the top half of the box. Here's the result before trimming:







I decided to use cardboard for two reasons.

1.) It might help make their nest. Paper wasps usually like to chew up wood or paper to add on to their nest. This will theoretically supply building materials to help them add to their nests.

2.) Wasps generally use porous materials to attach their nests to. I've never seen a nest on plastic...as of yet. Most of the nests I see are attached to the sides of houses on wooden parts. I even know of one case where wasps built their nest in a fully decomposed human skull. This will seem a bit more natural to them.

The next thing you need to to is set the orientation of the tank. This is something I thought up because I'm a bit anal about this, but you need to be able to work with your wasps with the hand you feel the most comfortable with. 

This is how mine is set up:







As you can see, I'm right handed so I prefer my tank's sliding door opens to the left.







When I built the enclosure, I made sure my tank's door opened to the _right_ so I could be certian it would open to the _left_ when I was done.

Next, you want to glue the wasp's nest to the cardboard. This part, I screwed up royally at first: 







As you can see, the nest is way too close to the side. You need to leave a little bit of space between the colony and the side of the 'fence'. To correct this, just simply cut the first layer of cardboard off and pull up. You'll get something like this:







Now, please remember when you're dealing with anything that's sharp and pointy at 2 AM that caffine is not a substitute for caution. I did manage to injure myself with the knife I was using:

http://a400.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/127/l_2473954ab59790bfa1a814d680cad36f.jpg

It looks worse than it was.

When you glue the colony, make sure the nest is as vertically orientated as possible. It needs to be straight up and down if you want this to succeed.

Glue the nest and 'fence' in the bottom of the tank upside-down like so:







The result is a polistes enclosure you can comfortably do maintenance in:







Now...the interesting part. Re-introduction of the queen to the nest. Here's the container I used to capture the queen:







Opaque sides are definitely a bonus...especially if you capture your colony during the day.

Anyways...re-introduction of the foundress to the nest isn't the easiest thing in the world. Follow these instructions very carefully...

...One, open the container.







She will climb up to the top of the container like so:







And then, she'll find her nest by smell.







You can't screw it up 







She will find her nest on her own. You may need the assistance of a pencil to place her on it, but if the foundress is healthy she will find her own nest without any assistance.

That's it for the housing portion...it's all pretty simple. Now, for the care portion.


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## Stylopidae

The care for wasps is extremely simple. They are predators, so they prefer live prey. The adults hunt prey for the grubs which need a high protien diet. The adults themselves eat sugary substances. The grubs produce a sugary substance they use to nourish the adults.

I've never seen my wasps hunt. Tleilaxu has seen this behaivior and I expect he'll fill this part in the best he can.

However, I have seen what happens after the wasp catches it's food. They seem to hunt almost like mantids. Mine used it's jaws and front legs to immobilize the prey in question and then drug it around the cage, looking for a good place to dine:

















They're messy eaters that can take up to 15 minutes to finish a meal.

These guys prefer soft bodied food. I tried lobster roaches for awhile, but I couldn't tell if they were being eaten or simply crawling out of the enclosure. I suspect B. dubia et. al are too hard bodied as nymphs for these guys. So as much as I hate crickets, they really are the perfect food for wasps. I reccomend feeding them crickets no bigger than the head and the thorax of the foundress.

I've also had one of the wasps take freshly killed food. This is the exception rather than the rule because it was the smaller worker that did this. I always keep a handful of (three maximum) crickets in the cage with the wasps. They take one or two per day. I expect this number to increase exponentially as the colony gets bigger.

After the adults capture the food and consume it, they fly back to the nest and feed the larvae in the same manner which birds are so famous for-they regurgitate it.

Pics of the feeding process: (I kind of disturbed them towards the end)






















Like I said earlier, you need to take the requirements of the adults into consideration as well. Even though the adults hunt and appear to eat, they don't actually use the food they catch for the nymphs. Instead, the adults eat sugary liquids. I prefer fruit juices (usually apple and orange) or pop. I plan on switching to watered down honey within the week.

The food for the adults needs to be changed daily, as it will mould within 48 hours. Don't ask me how this works, because I honestly don't think I could increase ventilation any more with this setup.

So...yeah, that's pretty much it for feeding. Crickets of an appropriate size, sugary liquids and a water cap are all that's required.







Next, you need to learn about warning behaivior. Normally this species is pretty laid back. All the photos of the nest were taken with my hands 6 inches or less from the nest.

However, there are certian times when you absolutely do _not_ want to mess with the colony at all. For some, this comes at the same time every day. I haven't noticed anything like this.

Avoiding stings is pretty much common sense. You'll soon learn the baseline behaiviors of your new pets, which is pretty much general disinterest. They will rest with their wings folded across their backs and will usually spend most of their time tending to their grubs and socializing.

Once you open the cage's door their behaivior may change. If the wasps are following your every move but their wings are still folded over their back, maintanence is OK as long as you don't make any sudden moves and don't come within a few inches of the nest. They will be curious about any large disturbance of their territory, but will generally keep their distance. They will eventually learn to associate you with food and will leave you well alone.

Sometimes you will see them holding their wings in a similar fashion to this series of pictures:





































This is what I call a stage one warning display. They will display themselves like this when they feel you are coming too close. The purpose of this is to seem bigger than they are.

I had to blow on the colony to get them to do this, and even then they didn't stay in this pose long enough for me to snap really good shots of them. I've built up a kind of rapport with my colony .

The next type of warning is what I call a stage two warning, where the entire colony loudly buzzes in unison. If you recieve this type of greeting, maintenance is not a good idea.

The next type of warning is a stage three warning, which is very rare. They generally just up and sting you at this point.

Even though the last word I would ever use to describe these guys is 'docile', it does kind of describe their demeanor. As long as you don't harass the nest, they do keep their distance.

_Polistes fuscatus_ is the only wasp I currently have access to, so this caresheet only applies to this species. _P. fuscatus_ is a common species in the northern states and I'm not 100% sure of it's range.

A user here by the name of Tleilaxu has also been experimenting with wasp setups. He has access to a greater variety than I do and I've asked him to come to this thread and share his experience. He's also been able to coax a female into making her own nest from scratch in captivity, something I've not yet had the opportunity to do.


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## Tleilaxu

Very nice, a few points

The upright stinging you warning will be phase four, the third phase I have seen is they will rapidly move about their nest while vibrating their wings to make a nasty buzzing noise, it is sporadic buzzing, ignoring this last request to back off is just asking for a sting and in my opinion you deserve it. Here is what I have noticed in warning stages
1. They will follow you movments carefully and seem active when you get too close to the nest.
2. They will display and lean towards the offending object, they will also perk up and be more alert during this time.
3. They will rapidly move about the nest rapidly shaking their wings to make a buzzing noise that sounds like they are hitting something, they may also hit their wings against the sides of their nest and enclosure to amplify the effect.
4. They will mock charge at try to bite, they may also sting during this time, generally you have to really set them off to get to this stage. As a note when they kill something and bring it back to the nest there sometimes can be general "excitement" where they are just moving about the nest, and there maybe some fighting amongst themselves, I would advise not working with them till they settle down.

To a certain extent they can learn and if you open the cage with minimal vibration or disturbance they will just glance at you and you are free to do what ever you need to.

To reiterate though in most cases you can work a few inches from the nest with the wasps showing general indifference:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v322/Tleilaxu/Wasp project/000_2758.jpg
Note the body language in this pic, this is indicitive of a relaxed colony. And to an extent you DO develope a rapport with these guys, but the thing to remember is THEY make the rules not the other way around.

Next diet, I have gotten fussy wasps to take different prey by puncturing the food item with a sharp object and while the prey is on that object offer it to the wasps, by moving the item, where "blood" is flowing out of the wound to the wasps, they generally take it then, after biting it a few times, and after feeling their bites through the toothpick used to impale the prey I can say I am more worried about their bites than stings! Also varing the diet is also recommended, they will take waxmoth larva, hornworms, cut mealie worms, moths and flies. Mine seem to reject butter worms. Also they do not eat the prey they catch, though they may take the juices, their main purpose when mashing up the cricket is to get it in an edible form for there grubs. So the chewing (which looks like eating) is actually used to remove the internal organs and waste. If you live in an area where pesticides are not used, an easy way to get soft bodies insects is to turn a bright deck light on at night and catch the moths and other bugs that get attracted to the light. I have had the best success in feedind flying insects when I impale them and then offer them to the wasps, as some times they have trouble catching them, and they(moths flies, ect) often fall in the food dishes and spoil the food, juice honey, ect.

Also I like to offer my wasps acess to a large water dish, though they seldom use it I have seen them drink from time to time, though generally they get their needed hydration from the food they eat and their prey, plus the larva feed them as well. The amount these guys go through in food is impressive so have a lot of food on hand, as they get cranky when they are hungry. Mine go through over ten to 20 items a week, and they ALWAYS must have access to foods they can drink, like juice and honey, plus water. They will not last long without it, and will die in two to three days. These are not like T's or other inverts their metabolism is off the charts compared to the other mainstay inverts, bear this in mind before getting them as they will eat up more of your time, than T's ever will.

Hunting behavior in your wasps is generally shown by active pacing around the enclosure and they will investigate nooks and crannies and focus on any movement, they will also fly around in a methodical patteren.

I have found that Polistes Dominula to be a bit more jumpy that P. fuscatus and they are much more willing to bite but other than that they are able to be worked with in much the same manner and the northern paper wasps.

General maintance, should be carried out once a week, and food should be changed every other day at the least. Be sure to remove un eaten food promptly if it is not alive. Keeping the cage clean is important for these guys and to your image as a wasp keeper, having a dirty cage may give the impression that you are afraid to work with them. And its not fair to your guests either (the wasps)


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## Tleilaxu

How come this is not pinned yet?


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## Stylopidae

I figured I'd give this an update.

The colony's been gone for a few months, so I thought I'd let you guys know how it went. Even though they eventually learned to associate my hand with food, they never learned to associate my camera with food so picture taking became a risky endeavor while putting in food was relatively tame.

I ended up with roughly 10 workers and about 4 males. The nest more than doubled in size.

I think I could get a larger nest than even that if I paid close attention to a few details. This is why I'm currently trying to figure out how to raise a mealworm colony without any risk of grain mites. I think if I can get a constant supply of food for the grubs, I can get the colony up to 15 or 20 in a season. Maybe more. I believe avalibility of food to be the limiting factor here.

The colony went well until November, when it quickly declined after I lowered the temps in my house to about 60* or so. The adults seemed to lose interest in taking care of the nest and went their seperate ways. That, and there was a cricket shortage for about two weeks in my area. Mating was never observed, so I made no effort to hibernate the foundresses.

Right now, I find myself at a crossroads in regards to this project. I desperately wish to continue it next year, however I do not feel I can handle both this project and my centipede project while guaranteeing top notch care for both projects.

The centipede project is also a financial endeavor as well and there are a few species of tarantulas I'd like to pick up for an even longer term project. The finances of this longer term project (4-5 years) may clash with my shorter (2-3 years) term centipede project, so right now there is a very real chance I could just decide to spend next summer chasing papers and reading for the research involved in this project.

I will decide next spring whether I will write a third volume of this thread (which will include breeding, as I believe I can capture two unrelated colonies safely) or if I will begin my centipede project. This endeavor is one I truly love, and the centipede project is something which may require a bit more reading than I originally thought.

I'll get pics of the final nest up when I can. They're taken, but my camera is currently at my house and I'm writing this at the house of my parents.


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## scottyk

Really looks like a great project.

Have you considered setting them up with a PVC tube that gives them outdoor access? I've seen a few amazing displays done this way. It will allow them to have more natural behaviors, and remove all of the feeding chores. All you'd need to do is kick back and watch, and possibly add supplemental treats for some extra colony growth....

The obvious challenge will be too build it securely enough that it doesn't come apart inside your house, but that shouldn't be too difficult....


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## Sandman

*I can't wait...*

This is right up my alley, can't wait to get started on my own predatory colony of wasps. Great read!


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## Stylopidae

scottyk said:


> Really looks like a great project.
> 
> Have you considered setting them up with a PVC tube that gives them outdoor access? I've seen a few amazing displays done this way. It will allow them to have more natural behaviors, and remove all of the feeding chores. All you'd need to do is kick back and watch, and possibly add supplemental treats for some extra colony growth....
> 
> The obvious challenge will be too build it securely enough that it doesn't come apart inside your house, but that shouldn't be too difficult....


Yes and no.

The original intent of the project I started in volume one of this thread (can be found in the articles section) was to see whether or not wasps can be kept as tarantulas.

The answer so far has been yes. There are only a handful of things left to do with this project...the biggest is to get captive breeding down pat.

Maybe in volume four, I'll set up a colony with a PVC pipe to the outside and monitor the colony's growth compared to a captive colony. There are much higher priorities...such as captive breeding. I'd honestly like to see a trade of foundresses or at least a breeding loan of some sort happen next year.

Care still isn't 100%, though. I'll be posting pictures of what I believe the average colony growth will be sometime tomorrow. I think with a constant food supply, growth could improve dramatically.

*shrug* 

There's still a lot of experimenting to do in this area. This is probably the most fun I've ever had working with bugs...and it really is hard for me to turn my back on this project even temporarily. I really want to see more people document their projects as I have done here. Seeing how everyone cares for their wasps and seeing who's methods bring the best results could very well be invaluable.


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## scottyk

Keep us posted. My wife loves the Tarantulas, plays with the roaches, indulges my aquarium hobby but is terrified of bees and wasps. I'll only be able to enjoy this vicariously through your posts and pictures....


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## Stylopidae

Here is the type of growth I'd believe to be typical in a season.

You can see the chew marks from where the adults used the cardboard to build onto the nest.


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## dtknow

So is now the time of year to be looking for a foundress?


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## Tleilaxu

No wait till March.

@Chesire did you get my PM?


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## auroborus

cool, i'm in Maryland and Ive seen reddish and dark shiny blue wasp. i might to make a set up with one of them or maybe bumble bees, if there possible to raise within a terrarium.


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## Stylopidae

dtknow said:


> So is now the time of year to be looking for a foundress?


All the capture details were explained in the article. You could look for a foundress now, however coaxing foundresses to make a nest from complete scratch poses some problems for first time keepers. I'd wait until spring/early summer to capture a foundress with a nest already constructed.



auroborus said:


> cool, i'm in Maryland and Ive seen reddish and dark shiny blue wasp. i might to make a set up with one of them or maybe bumble bees, if there possible to raise within a terrarium.


That wasp is probably some sort of parasitic wasp. The care and breeding for those would be considerably different. You'd need a dish full of mud and give the wasp access to prey.

_Polistes ssp._ should be somewhat easy to find in Maryland.

I haven't researched requirements for these types, though. I'm tackling the easy ones first.

I think bumblebees would be difficult to raise in a terrarium for the same reason honeybees would be difficult to raise in a terrarium.


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## ranchulas

Awesome read!!  I might try this when summer hits. Thanks again.


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## Dr Livingston

I have a medium sized hive going right now but I have no idea what kind of wasps they are. They are an overall red with three to four yellow stripes on their abdomens. The stripes are outlined in black and the thorax has the outline of a yellow hexagon that transitions into two vertical stripes. Does anyone have any idea what they might be?


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## Talkenlate04

*Lil bump*

I think I am going to try my hand at this. I have re located nests before to eves that I could look under from a window and be close, but never done it in captivity. Today I found my starter nest, and I think I have the queen. There is one other empty cell in the middle that might have held a worker at some point but I did not see a second wasp coming back to the nest in the period I watched it. She is being very sweet so far. Even feeding off nectar I had at the end of some tweezers. In one of the pictures you can see her eating a grub I gave her then feeding her babies. Looks like I might also have some new residents on the nest soon as well! So I hope it works!


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## Tleilaxu

Nice Polistes dominula. A semi jumpy species at thge start they do learn that you are not a threat and calm down. You do have the queen BTW, keep us updated!


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## Talkenlate04

She pretty much thinks movement from me means food now and is not aggressive at all toward me. If I move to fast she will buzz her wings a bit but she is a sweet heart. And I found out today she loves freshly molted baby dubia roaches. I fed her one and she balled it up and fed it to her grubs.


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## Stylopidae

Dr Livingston said:


> I have a medium sized hive going right now but I have no idea what kind of wasps they are. They are an overall red with three to four yellow stripes on their abdomens. The stripes are outlined in black and the thorax has the outline of a yellow hexagon that transitions into two vertical stripes. Does anyone have any idea what they might be?



ID is difficult even with pictures...there are several variations of _P. fuscatus_ alone and I don't think I'd know them on sight.

Get pictures and we'd be able to hash something out. It might also be a good idea to pick up a feild guide from a bookstore and look up the ID. Borders has a very low pressure sales staff. They'll let you read the book cover to cover in the store .

What area of the country do you live in? _P. fuscatus_ is common in the north, but in the south there are several more interesting species.



Tleilaxu said:


> Nice Polistes dominula. A semi jumpy species at thge start they do learn that you are not a threat and calm down. You do have the queen BTW, keep us updated!


I agree, that does look like the foundress. It's a bit difficult to tell...but I think there's a good chance that is foundress.


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## Talkenlate04

Well one step forward! I came home today and found a new worker and another cap had been made by a grub! :clap:


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## Talkenlate04

I have the foundress! The empty cell that contained the female that hatched yesterday has a new egg in it already. Here is a shot of them in natural light outside on my deck and they were sharing a freshly molted baby dubia.


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## Tleilaxu

VERY good! You are well on your way to being a wasp hobbyist, now if only my newly caught fuscatus would eat so well.


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## echostatic

very cool! it certainly looks like your colony is off to a healthy start.


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## Talkenlate04

Tleilaxu said:


> VERY good! You are well on your way to being a wasp hobbyist, now if only my newly caught fuscatus would eat so well.


I hand fed them that meal by ripping a freshly molted baby dubia in half then giving it to them. I am not going to do that much longer, I just want to ensure they start well. The worker decided to fly out of the setup into my T room but went right to the window and I caught her and returned her to the nest. Guess I better start remembering to put the lid back on!


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## Talkenlate04

So I tried something new today. It is really really hot here so I decided to try and put the setup outside to see if they would forage for food and still return to the nest. A few hours later I started watching them and they are doing just that with no problems! They seem to be storing a large amount of gel looking nectar I guess. Its being deposited in almost every cell. Ill post pictures later. The one think I find interesting is the queen is leaving the nest as well to forage. That makes me somewhat nervous because she might get picked off by a bird or something, but so far so good. Ill post pictures of the food storage later when it cools off somewhat. 
Oh one more thing, the empty cell that had the one worker I have in it, it has two eggs in it now. I have never seen that happen. I wonder what will happen to the other egg. :?


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## Tleilaxu

I would not allow them to free range until the queen ceases to leave the nest, otherwise if she dies your SOL. As for that other egg it will be eaten. Also they do store nectar in the cells as you noticed, it actually tastes like honey.

Also make sure that they have a food dish with honey, and another with water*And make sure its shallow so they can get out if they fall in*. Also provide torn up cardboard, the thick kind not like the stuff you fine on ceral boxes.


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## Talkenlate04

I have been using a rotten log and they seem to like that and have been using it to add to their nest. I have a cup of with dubia roaches in it that I have seen them frequenting. And a cup of sugar water the have been all over. Ill have to try honey. 
And all that nectar is gone! There is some left in the cells with only eggs, but the big chunks I was seeing earlier this morning were eaten by the grubs. Ill post a few pictures soon. 
One question, if the foundress did die, will another female take over? Or does she have to be mated for that to occur?


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## Tleilaxu

If she died a worker would try to care for the nest though she would not be able to lay fertile eggs and there is some info out now that says that workers cannot become queens unless they get fed a certain amount of food. Generally though if a female were to take over and be a successful queen she would need to be mated. You can tell your queen from her worker by the black spot in the center of her face, her workers will not have that. This is a queen trait in dominula (black spot in center of the face)

I am surprised the larva ate the nectar solution, though I think the adults did when you were not looking.


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## Talkenlate04

Even with that much nectar being there you think it was just the two adults? There was a huge drop in almost every cell. 

That is what I though, that the adults existed off the nectar and the grubs ate pre chewed insects and such given to them by the adults. 

The queen is out again, her trips are becoming longer and longer. I wonder why the one worker is not going out at all. :?  Maybe she is being left behind to guard the nest. I am assuming once a few more hatch she will stop going out like that?


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## Tleilaxu

Most likely that worker is still to young to do heavy foraging yet so mom still does the main work. I personally would not let them free range until there are at least three more workers on the nest. Yeah I am also assuming that the queen wil remain behind once there are more workers.

As for the nectar I am unaware of larva eating it, I really think it was the adults.


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## Talkenlate04

I watched the queen place nectar right in front of the larva just a while ago. I am almost positive they are eating it, Ill try to film it later if I can. Here are some pictures from today. They are growing so fast!


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## Tleilaxu

Wow thats cool! I never would have thought the larva would eat that!


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## Talkenlate04

So whichever egg hatches first will be eat the other egg in that cell with two eggs? That will be interesting!


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## Dark

the only wasps I have living near me are yellow jackets, If i catch a queen and her nest will she be able to live in a cage without being too stressed out? Are yellow jackets too easily startled to be able to observe them? Sorry if this has been asked before.


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## Talkenlate04

darkpredator said:


> the only wasps I have living near me are yellow jackets, If i catch a queen and her nest will she be able to live in a cage without being too stressed out? Are yellow jackets too easily startled to be able to observe them? Sorry if this has been asked before.



I think you are asking for trouble keeping those little demons. They are very aggressive. I think you would be stung a lot. Defiantly not worth it.
Where are you at that there are no wasps?


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## Dark

New York, only wasps I have seen are yellow jackets and some other wasp that makes mud burrows and I haven't fond a reachable wasp nest in many years to even try keeping them in captivity.


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## Talkenlate04

New gal hatching out! She has one wing that is totally useless so I guess she is going to be nest bound for her lifetime.


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## dtknow

What is it that you guys call yellow-jackets?

I'd like to try this but no nests near me ATM.


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## Talkenlate04

If you type wasp into google and type yellow jacket into that search you can see how different they really are.


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## Tleilaxu

Great photos, your beating me in numbers for workers already...


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## Talkenlate04

Tleilaxu said:


> Great photos, your beating me in numbers for workers already...


I had another hatch this evening. So three workers and the queen.


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## Tleilaxu

Well I am catching up hehe two workers and the queen with more to hatch soon.


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## Talkenlate04

We are tied then. One of my workers was born with two defective wings, the other two workers actually kicked her out of the hive.  
I have a few more that should hatch soon with plenty growing up fast.


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## Talkenlate04

And then there were 5! You can see the light parts of the lower cells that they have added to since being in my care.


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## Talkenlate04

The guys having a late night snack of a freshly molted dubia roach.


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## Tleilaxu

NICE I am currently in the lead with worker numbers for now, though with dominula that wont last long since they are prolific and fast growers.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh195/Polistes/100_0549.jpg
^The wasp with yellow stung me so I marked her with non toxic bee marker so I know where she is at all times.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh195/Polistes/100_0548.jpg
This has every wasp at the nest but one so there are 9 to 10 total.

Reactions: Helpful 1


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## Vulgaris

How long did this nest last, Talkenlate04???

The wasp on the left is definitely a male. This makes me think you did not catch the queen. either that or your nest produced males early for some reason...

The wing deformations are caused by parasites. These wasps often wonder away from the nest and cant get back because they cant fly

BTW your photos are simply stunning! some of the best I've seen!


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## bhoeschcod

Talkenlate04 said:


> I think you are asking for trouble keeping those little demons. They are very aggressive. I think you would be stung a lot. Defiantly not worth it.
> Where are you at that there are no wasps?


they are not demons to me  i loooove the little guys ive kept some[no queen] and in spring if im not busy im looking for a queen and starting my first nest its really gonna be hard though even vulgarias failed which means ill probebly fail but hey im not giving up just cause i have a bad feelling im going to fail hell no im gonna keep em untill i get about 9-13 then ill let em free wage and take care of them selfs BTW vulgarias is this a good plan cause if not what can i do better:?


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## bug salamander

This was a very helpful thread. I tried to colonize Polistes annularis last year out of a sudden interest I took in wasps. Having no experience, as I am a lepidopteran kind of person, I was only so successful. I started out in late summer and captured four or five individuals (whether or not I had the fertile queen didn't matter since the most aggresive worker will begin laying unfertilized eggs which will become males) and set the nest up in a tall 10 gallon terrerium. I introduced many caterpillar species including tobacco hornworms to the enclosure, but I never saw them hunt for the caterpillars. Instead they fed the larvae with sugar water. The adults and larvae lived off of sugar water and that was that. The nest was never expanded despite the supply of cardboard, leaves and wood in the tank with them, but I did increase from about four to fourteen wasps. Watching them I have learned that the workers constantly "lick" clean the capsules of cells with pupae in them until the new wasp emerges.

This year I am starting out with two queens. One of them is Polistes annularis and the other is Polistes fuscatus. I found the two queens and their nests eight inches from each other under a bush by the side of my house. Both nests have approxiamately twelve cells with unhatched eggs in them. I wil suppply the queens with sugar water and live caterpillars and (this time) crickets to hunt for.

Hopefully I will be able to observe some more interesting behaviors of these wasps this year.


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## SandDeku

I like wasps. But Iam terrified of them. I got stung once when I was reaching in my mailbox for mail(obviously).  My question is---- don't they fly out? How do you get in there without them stinging you or flying out? 

I once found a wasps nest which I thought was empty. I took it home and then I found little grubs on it. I killed them though. lol. I soaked the  nest under water  and then some workers came out. they drowned though. I thought nothing was there. Sorta scared me. 


I wonder if they sell wasps that are for display(dried) and inside of glass or something.
I'd like to see a video of this.


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## H. laoticus

Very cool thread 
I have some Polistes fuscatus around my area and I might just get into wasp keeping. Hopefully I'll be able to contribute to this thread in the future, but I'm glad someone brought this thread back up--I'd like to see some updates! Sheesh, I'm going from scorpions to centipedes to wasps


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## SandDeku

H. laoticus said:


> Very cool thread
> I have some Polistes fuscatus around my area and I might just get into wasp keeping. Hopefully I'll be able to contribute to this thread in the future, but I'm glad someone brought this thread back up--I'd like to see some updates! Sheesh, I'm going from scorpions to centipedes to wasps


Hah! I know what you mean. In my case its from turtles, toads, fish, and general insects. I do keep them. But I keep bouncing between them. Its weird I have interest in all of them. But my interest seems to bounce more on each one more strongly. I'm hoping to get into millipedes soon. Just waiting for a job opportunity that I'm getting soon. After I make some dough Ill buy the set up and then order some pedes. As for wasps. The only thing I'd get close to are the fluffy wasps that I asked about. forgot their name. Bullet ant? They're predatory and solitary. Living for like 6months? I'm not a fan of anything venemous and dangerous. Like I like their looks---- but if its potentially dangerous I wouldn't keep it myself. 
I'm a wuss and extremely self preservative.


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## H. laoticus

SandDeku said:


> Hah! I know what you mean. In my case its from turtles, toads, fish, and general insects. I do keep them. But I keep bouncing between them. Its weird I have interest in all of them. But my interest seems to bounce more on each one more strongly. I'm hoping to get into millipedes soon. Just waiting for a job opportunity that I'm getting soon. After I make some dough Ill buy the set up and then order some pedes. As for wasps. The only thing I'd get close to are the fluffy wasps that I asked about. forgot their name. Bullet ant? They're predatory and solitary. Living for like 6months? I'm not a fan of anything venemous and dangerous. Like I like their looks---- but if its potentially dangerous I wouldn't keep it myself.
> I'm a wuss and extremely self preservative.


And honest, too lol!  Same here, I'm all over the place including freshwater tropical fish to crayfish and now to small lizards. I have a 5 gallon sliding tank lying around so this new project will put it to good use.  By the way, is a heat source necessary for Polistes fuscatus?  I would think not because they won't be moved from their general location (just inside my house), but I'm wondering if it will be better for them in any way (more activity as well as growth and nest development?) to get some extra heat other than my room's normal temp.


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## bug salamander

SandDeku said:


> My question is---- don't they fly out? How do you get in there without them stinging you or flying out?


Very carefully of course. They'll let you know when you've gone far enough but when there are no workers with the queen she is very docile and will not attack in most cases. Just capturing a queen and her nest is quite simple, but when her first generation has emerged she and her offspring become much more aggresive and about ten times more likely to attack you as well. I think I've knocked down enough nests and been chased and attacked by enough wasps to know this.


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## SandDeku

H. laoticus said:


> And honest, too lol!  Same here, I'm all over the place including freshwater tropical fish to crayfish and now to small lizards. I have a 5 gallon sliding tank lying around so this new project will put it to good use.  By the way, is a heat source necessary for Polistes fuscatus?  I would think not because they won't be moved from their general location (just inside my house), but I'm wondering if it will be better for them in any way (more activity as well as growth and nest development?) to get some extra heat other than my room's normal temp.


Uhh I'm pretty sure room temps is fine. Since most houses wont drop bellow freezing. lol. I'm not an expert on them though.

As for honesty, yes Iam. It's sorta my prob.  Too open/honest about things.

As for all over the place--- I get talked to by my parents that I shouldn't over do it.  Considering my dad got himself 5fishtanks. I got myself 3fish tanks and 1 exo terra. I'm getting a 75g and building a show tank for my american toads. I really love toads. lol. I'm also going to set up a "fresh water native tank" meaning fish from local streams/ponds. Obviously not the ones that are illegal to take. According to the law--- you cannot take sunfish in nj anymore. Weirdly enough since they are extremely common. I did get some daces a while back. They're still alive and kicking. I'm going to transfer them into another 75g I hope to buy. Or use my dads 55g. I'd like to get some bullhead catfish. There's alot of stuff I take interest into. 

Currently owning:
1 rabbit
3toads
Tons of toad tadpoles(reared them myself from eggs-- which my toads laid). I'll be keeping 3 toads from the tadpoles when they grow and releasing the rest into the wild. the toads are wild caught from toadlets. 
1 DBT(captive bred)
4 goldfish(2-3years old and sorta extremely big)
12guppies 
12minnows
8ghost shrimp.  
I have alot of stuff. 

---------- Post added at 07:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:19 PM ----------




bug salamander said:


> Very carefully of course. They'll let you know when you've gone far enough but when there are no workers with the queen she is very docile and will not attack in most cases. Just capturing a queen and her nest is quite simple, but when her first generation has emerged she and her offspring become much more aggresive and about ten times more likely to attack you as well. I think I've knocked down enough nests and been chased and attacked by enough wasps to know this.


I wouldn't keep one myself though. My parent's will have a fit if I ever even thought of keeping them. That would be the last straw for them.


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## LeilaNami

We're attempting to do this with Polistes exclamans in a 18" exoterra with all vents sealed except for the fine screen top.  We've only had them for about 24hours and already have had a worker hatch out.  We took them in because we were worried about this unusual cold snap we're going through would kill off the foundress.


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## bug salamander

So far both the Polistes fuscatus and annularis queens are doing well. It has been over a week now and the eggs will hatch soon. Both foundresses have come down to the bottom of the enclosure to collect the solution I made for them (composed of one part water, one part sugar, one part honey, and one part dr. pepper) daily. They have been positioning small droplets of the solution carefully in the cells, so that when the eggs hatch the larvae will begin eating immediately. 

I'm proud the queens are doing such a great job taking care of their nests. They have also been emmiting pheremones among the nest to repell ants and other insects that may prey on the larvae. I have yet to see them build onto the nest, but I suspect they will not build onto the nests any further until the larvae hatch and grow some.


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## JC

Holy crap this thread is awesome! :clap:


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## ZergFront

Talkenlate's wasps look like the ones common in my yard. So far, I've found two paper nests, one in inside the unused cement-turner and the other is inside an upside-down plastic bin we're using to protect equipment from the weather. The workers come in from below the bin's rim.(both stay pretty high in temperature and they are fully protected from rain and access sun).

 I tried raising grubs on my own a couple years back but it didn't pan out too well. The mushed spider, cutworm, water diet seeped into the paper while feeding the grubs through a dropper. Eventually, the grubs ate the paper until the cell was open well below their heads caps. Two days later, ants found the nest in my room. 

 We also have mud daubers, solitary bees, bumblebees and honeybees. I see some yellow jackets from time to time but I don't think they nest on our property.

 The bumblebees have turned a crevice in our roof into their home. My parents leave them alone as we fully appreciate them pollinating our orange trees. We got a lot of fruit these past 2 years. 

 If I could find a nest, I would LOVE to get a queen of this shiny, blue mud dauber we have around here that gets into our house sometimes in the summer(Chalybion californicum maybe). :drool:


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## LeilaNami

So far mine haven't taken punctured prey.  When I offer it, they start lunging and biting it but won't eat.  I dropped in a small live cricket to see if they'll take it since the foundress is still foraging.  We also had another worker hatch out today!


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## Tleilaxu

From what I gather exclamens is a bit harder to establish, try a flying prey type like a moth. Or caterpillars. Good luck, Also make sure you have some fibrous plant matter as well as sometimes this species uses it too. Pics of your setup would be useful.


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## bug salamander

Today has been good so far. The P. fuscatus chewed out the back end of an eastern forest tent caterpiller yesterday and chewed up it's head  (and finally killed it) today. The P. annularis queen seems quite a threat to fuscatus as it is much bigger and more aggresive.  P. annularis hasn't hunted much, so I went out to look for something to offer it. I brought back a crane fly and gave it to her. She then began chewing it up into a ball. Still no eggs have hatched yet, but both queens are gathering food for those soon to, and storing them carefully in each egg's cell. I'm also thinking of capturing a P. metricus nest so I will be able to observe the behavior of three different species of Polistes. I am curious as to whether or not metricus or annularis is the most aggresive species in my area. 

Hopefully I will have pictures to share with you all later on.


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## LeilaNami

Tleilaxu said:


> From what I gather exclamens is a bit harder to establish, try a flying prey type like a moth. Or caterpillars. Good luck, Also make sure you have some fibrous plant matter as well as sometimes this species uses it too. Pics of your setup would be useful.


Thanks!  As for fibrous plant matter, are you thinking something like leaves?

We had another worker hatch out.  It seems one's emerging every 24 hours so now we're up to three and the foundress.  The foundress herself acts a little odd.  She seems to stay behind the foam backing (there's a little hole to allow her to get back there) at night and for most of the day.  I'm assuming this is because she's not going to be foraging very much anymore now that there are three workers.  I threw in a couple of small moths tonight to see if they'll use those instead.  I love this species so much as they are incredibly mellow (when away from the nest).

Unfortunately we don't have a camera that can upload pics to the net (no cord).   I can borrow my friend's after finals next week though.


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## Tleilaxu

More like string grass stems if you can get what i am trying to say. Good luck!


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## LeilaNami

Well time for bad news and hopefully good news.  I believe I found what was the foundress dead.  However, one of the ones that is newly emerged is twice the size of the other two.  (The only other thing that could have happened was a worker with a piece of exuvium was still stuck on the wing and they kicked her out but the body nor any of the others have the exuvium stuck to their wing).  Hopefully the bigger one is either a male getting ready for a new reproductive female, a newly emerged reproductive female, or the original foundress and the body was that of the worker I mentioned.

EDIT: To add, we have a little one, the smallest of all of them, that acts like a nut every time I open the door to the cage.  She kamikazes the door whenever I try to do maintenance.

EDIT: I found this interesting paper on caste determination in Polistes exclamans. http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~evolve/pdf/90-95/fe490.pdf


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## Tleilaxu

Typical, there is one nut in every colony.


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## LeilaNami

Unfortunately, when we changed their food source of fruit juice to honey and water, they decided to stop eating.  We had gotten up to 6 but then they all just started dying until there was none left, even the second queen. They also didn't touch the wood, paper, or plant matter to expand the nest.


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## H. laoticus

LeilaNami said:


> Unfortunately, when we changed their food source of fruit juice to honey and water, they decided to stop eating.  We had gotten up to 6 but then they all just started dying until there was none left, even the second queen. They also didn't touch the wood, paper, or plant matter to expand the nest.


I'm planning on capturing a small nest at my house sometime this week.  Sorry for your losses; I will keep that in mind when offering food.  I think I'll put in separate caps for juice, honey and also with sugar-water to see which ones my wasps prefer.


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## H. laoticus

I have successfully captured the nest and my setup for them is also complete.  I have them in an Exo Terra nano I had lying around.  They have water and their food sources include honey, sugar water, and some maimed B. lateralis roaches.  
Unfortunately, the queen passed away the day after I captured it.  I have no idea how or why, but it might be due to her flying into the honey cap although I didn't see this.  At first she was fine and was flying around, but the next morning I saw her on the group and looking crippled.  Was it her time to pass on?  The nest already had 4 workers and also a large amount of grubs.

My questions are:  Should I leave the wasps as they are and hope for a new queen to arise?  The workers don't seem to be doing much except buzzing around the setup so I'm not sure if they are tending to the nest's grubs.  Should I release them then?  I also have another starting nest at my house that I can replace this one with.


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## Louise E. Rothstein

The wasps that faded away on honey and water might have been getting honey made from the same kind of chemically contaminated nectar that has been linked to "colony collapse disorder" in bees.

Their chemical sensitivities may turn out to be very similar.
As they should be:
Bees and wasps are rather close relatives.

The wasps whose  "nectar" tasted like honey must have been processing their nectar in a very beelike manner...if wasps didn't store "bugmeat" in the same "hive" as their "honey" they would interest hobby beekeepers because their more omnivorous diet safeguards them from disaster during years when the seasonal "nectar flows" are low. 

But captive wasps that HAVE to eat honey may become easy marks for the same kind of "colony collapse disorder" that plagues modern beekeepers.
Since beekeepers who can "graze" their bees on organic properties report that they can avoid colony collapse disorder by doing so they may be able to offer honey that wasps will NOT "fade away" on.

The specialists who breed bumblebees for pollinating greenhouse exotics whose flowers aren't honeybee friendly have been building "bumblebee hives" that underground wasps might also consider acceptable. 

Nobody thought of it.

It is time that we did:
Wasps can be as "trainable" as bees...
AND they can prey on concentrations of insect pests.

The implications are interesting.

Please continue your work with wasps.


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## Malhavoc's

Louise E. Rothstein said:


> The wasps that faded away on honey and water might have been getting honey made from the same kind of chemically contaminated nectar that has been linked to "colony collapse disorder" in bees.
> 
> Their chemical sensitivities may turn out to be very similar.
> As they should be:
> Bees and wasps are rather close relatives.
> 
> The wasps whose  "nectar" tasted like honey must have been processing their nectar in a very beelike manner...if wasps didn't store "bugmeat" in the same "hive" as their "honey" they would interest hobby beekeepers because their more omnivorous diet safeguards them from disaster during years when the seasonal "nectar flows" are low.
> 
> But captive wasps that HAVE to eat honey may become easy marks for the same kind of "colony collapse disorder" that plagues modern beekeepers.
> Since beekeepers who can "graze" their bees on organic properties report that they can avoid colony collapse disorder by doing so they may be able to offer honey that wasps will NOT "fade away" on.
> 
> The specialists who breed bumblebees for pollinating greenhouse exotics whose flowers aren't honeybee friendly have been building "bumblebee hives" that underground wasps might also consider acceptable.
> 
> Nobody thought of it.
> 
> It is time that we did:
> Wasps can be as "trainable" as bees...
> AND they can prey on concentrations of insect pests.
> 
> The implications are interesting.
> 
> Please continue your work with wasps.


isnt one of the downsides however in the wasp Vs bee debate is wasp nests never do attain the same coloney size? Most wasp nests I have seen are much smaller then a bee hive, I also believe the queens are seasonal which would require restarting the coloney every year.

 unfortunatly I just do not see wasps being used anytime soon to replace honeybees perhaps in small green houses but not much more then that.


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## H. laoticus

I thought I'd just post the method I used to capture them if anyone is interested: 

Items: 
1)  A plastic container:  
http://www.rez-tech.com/images/PlasticContainers-GripItSQ02.jpg

2)  A long, thin object such as a knife with a wide head:  
http://www.ujknives.com/images/products/unsui_traditional/nakiri.jpg

3)  A thin, flat board such as a clipboard:  
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-3tQeAmJhRZ4/TfofjZhsNfI/AAAAAAAAAMw/Wvgnp9RkSOM/s1600/clipboard.jpeg

I went out at night because I wanted all the residents of the nest to be home and I figured they would be mellow and not as alert at this time.  The nest was about 10 feet up, so I stood on a chair and cupped the entire nest with the container. I then slid the knife carefully in between the container and the surface the nest was attached to, poking/scraping off the nest.  After that, I took the clipboard and slid it in between, covering the container and preventing escape.  What you should be holding after all of that is a container on top of a clipboard that has a nest and wasps in it. 
Getting my hands on the loosened nest for the setup was easy after that since the wasps stay at the top of the container while the nest is on the ground.  By the way, having someone to help hand you the tools makes it very easy.  That's about it!


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## H. laoticus

*Wasp nests update*

I now have two wasp nests in their own setups.  The first nest I captured that unfortunately lost the queen on the second day is still functional.  I see that the workers are eating the food I've placed in there, but I haven't caught any nest building activities.  I do, however, spot several growing larvae in the nest.  The second nest that I acquired is in a 12x12x12 exo terra tank and this one still has its queen.  The wasps from this nest have been active in eating the crickets I've placed in there.  A couple of the larvae on this nest are also pupating. I haven't been watching either nest diligently, so that may be why I haven't seen any nest building. 

I also found a site that has a live cam on a wasp nest.  It's best to watch it during daylight where there's visibility because the owner didn't want to disturb the wasps with any artificial light at night. This nest is pretty large and very active.  Thought I'd share it here:  http://www.ustream.tv/channel/wasp-nest-cam


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## H. laoticus

*New Worker, New prey*

My second wasp nest has produced a new worker today, making a total of 4 wasps on the nest.  I also decided to introduce a new prey item because although the crickets were being somewhat eaten, they still put up too much of a fight to be easy prey, despite having their hind legs removed.  I also tried flies, but they seemed to like dying in the water sources and mealworms weren't cutting it either.  So I placed in 2 waxworms yesterday for both wasp nests and right away, the wasps went to work making a meal out of them.  I was very pleased to see this since wax worms are very easy to get a hold of (usually at your local pet store) and they aren't all that expensive, especially when wasps don't require that much food per meal.  This morning I placed in two more for each setup and had the same success with feeding.  This is great for me since wax worms don't make a mess crawling over the food items and climbing the walls afterwards, decorating the setups with gunk; they stay put and they are easy for the wasps to process.  

By the way, I believe my wasps are Polistes exclamans and here they are:

The first nest:












The Second Nest:


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## H. laoticus

*Rapid Growth*

Nest 2 that originally had 3 workers produced 1 new worker yesterday.  Today, I have found 2 more workers.  They are feeding on the wax worms I've just put in as I type.  

Edit:  make that 3 workers today instead of 2!  That's a total of 7 wasps.


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## compnerd7

I was asked to go and take down a large paper wasp nest from a building. I was going to just drown them in CO2, but I decided to keep them instead. This thread was the most helpful, thanks a ton for all this info!!! Should have been a stickied thread.


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## 3skulls

Anyone still keeping wasp?

I'm thinking of trying them this year.


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## audax

I'm trying but confused


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