# Best starter Old World Tarantula for a beginner in the trade?



## RatKing216

So here I am once again. Totally in love with Idea of owning an OBT. But not sure due to the speed and aggression. I wouldn't mind a Cobalt Blue otherwise as well. But I leave it in your hands for help. What is everyone's suggestions as far as a starter OW would be concerned? I have 1 T thusfar. She is a 1 1/2" Green Bottle Blue. Also I understand everyone hates common names, but since I'm new could we try and post the common along with the Scientific name? I might learn one day! Lastly, has anyone ever seen one of those Rattlesnake Tarantulas out of Australia!!??!! Those are SOOO sweet!!! They look sexy as hell too! That may sound a bit weird but just look at them sometime! YouTube it!

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## NikiP

P. murinus is one of the best starter species of OW tarantulas. They are inexpensive & pretty hardy. Besides, I find it fairly easy to keep my eyes on a bright orange blob 

If you aren't sure, i'd recommend checking out Psalmopoeus irminia (suntiger), cambridgei (trinidad chevron), or reduncus (Costa Rican orange mouth) or something like a Tapinauchenius gigas (orange treespider.) All pretty speedy, and some (irminia) are more defensive then others, but they are NW so the venom is less potent (not to say theirs isn't bad at all) & don't urticating hairs. They are perfect stepping stone species

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## Armstrong5

I wouldnt recommend any haplo bc all you get is a boring pet hole you never know what they r doing even if you start a burrow in a corner so you can see it bc they just put thick web over the glass so you cant see in. I would recommend and obt or like the other guy said a p.irminia


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## Najakeeper

Armstrong5 said:


> I wouldnt recommend any haplo bc all you get is a boring pet hole you never know what they r doing even if you start a burrow in a corner so you can see it bc they just put thick web over the glass so you cant see in. I would recommend and obt or like the other guy said a p.irminia


Horned baboons are pretty cool as well.

Reactions: Like 2


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## arachnofreak95

What about Eucratoscelus pachypus (stoutleg baboon)? They still have speed just like any other baboon, but they aren't nearly as defensive as some other OW tarantulas. They will be pretty defensive inside their burrows, but they are considered to be pretty mellow for OW. At least that's the impression I've gotten from what other people say, and I haven't ever even gotten a threat pose from mine.


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## Imbrium

My E. pachypus is a sweetheart. She was my first OW and I'd definitely recommend one. She is quite pet holey though. At least mine was nice enough to burrow against the side. Here's my girly, Priscilla:







I need to coax her out for a new pic since she molted.

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## BrettG

IMHO,E.pachypus.... No OW that is more calm that this....

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## NikiP

Seems like the only bad thing about them is that they aren't readily available? Seems like several people had the for sale last summer, then they just kinda disappeared.


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## Tindalos

Obts are fun, Ive had no problems with them...just dont touch. first OW I ever got. The easiest T to deal with I have. Any haplo are just holes, they get boring.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## RatKing216

What if I'm looking for a bit of a slower moving Old World though? Any suggestions on something slow to medium on their speed? Also, as I mentioned at the start of the thread, what is everyones thoughts on those Rattlesnake Tarantulas?


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## Moltar

A slow moving OW is... a relative thing. Since they don't have urticating hairs, they are just generally more prone to run, threat display or bite than their NW counterparts. Even fat, clunky NW T's like Grammostolas and Brachypelmas are capable of blinding speed when they feel it is necessary. OW are just more prone to feel that necessity, and some are genuinely faster as well.

That said... some less feisty OW T's would be from the Ceratogyrus genus (horned baboons) E. pachypus (already mentioned) or, if arboreal is your bag, a P. regalis or L. violaceopes. P. murinus (OBT) or P. lugardi (Ft. Hall) are fairly excitable and fast moving but still relatively easy as OW goes, especially the lugardi. They are also fairly cheap.

I'd steer clear of Haplopelmas and other moisture loving burrowers until you have a bit more experience. They can be a real challenge both in terms of rehousing/handling and their high-moisture care requirements.

As for the rattlesnake T, I'm not sure they're available in the states for any price. Australia isn't that enthusiastic about exporting their native fauna.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Lorgakor

I second the suggestions of _P. lugardi_ and _E. pachypus_. Both will burrow, but both tend to have a bit better disposition than say,_ P. murinus_. 
If you are into arboreals, some _Poecilotheria_ are quite tame as old world goes. _P. miranda, P. metallica, P. formosa_ seem to be on the calm side. In fact my _P. metallica_ (see my avatar) and_ P. miranda_ were among the calmest of my spiders, even more than some of my new world ones.  
But if you find a different species that catches your eye, buy a sling and you will get to know your spider and its reactions as it grows.

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## RatKing216

I would much rather have a terrestrial species.


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## Moltar

I'm tellin ya, Ceratogyrus is a somewhat overlooked but awesome genus. They're a lot less feisty than some OW's and they have fantastic burrowing behavior. Plus, they have horns! How cool is that? Also they're pretty hardy, not unlike OBT's in that way.


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## kellysaxez

NikiP said:


> P. murinus is one of the best starter species of OW tarantulas. They are inexpensive & pretty hardy. Besides, I find it fairly easy to keep my eyes on a bright orange blob
> 
> If you aren't sure, i'd recommend checking out Psalmopoeus irminia (suntiger), cambridgei (trinidad chevron), or reduncus (Costa Rican orange mouth) or something like a Tapinauchenius gigas (orange treespider.) All pretty speedy, and some (irminia) are more defensive then others, but they are NW so the venom is less potent (not to say theirs isn't bad at all) & don't urticating hairs. They are perfect stepping stone species


HI NikiP. I am in the process of setting up for the purchase of a 1" P. Murinas and folks I talk to on some boards are freaking out. "OBT as a first OW t is ridiculous, too dangerous for a starter or for folks used only to NW like yourself...blah blah blah." Now, I am all for using caution and being extremely mindful of my "surroundings" and have about 6 years experience keeping t's, two G. Rosea, one LP, one GBB and now looking to add an OW and would like to proceed with the P. mourners. Could you tell me, please, what your positives are for this being a good beginner species for a new OW keeper? Thanks so much, Kelly

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## Sam_Peanuts

kellysaxez said:


> HI NikiP. I am in the process of setting up for the purchase of a 1" P. Murinas and folks I talk to on some boards are freaking out. "OBT as a first OW t is ridiculous, too dangerous for a starter or for folks used only to NW like yourself...blah blah blah." Now, I am all for using caution and being extremely mindful of my "surroundings" and have about 6 years experience keeping t's, two G. Rosea, one LP, one GBB and now looking to add an OW and would like to proceed with the P. mourners. Could you tell me, please, what your positives are for this being a good beginner species for a new OW keeper? Thanks so much, Kelly


The positives have already been said(4 years ago so I doubt you'll get an answer from the person you quoted), they're cheap and hardy.

With that said, they're not a great first OW species for other more important reasons since they tend to try to escape more than some species and are more enclined to brave you and bite rather than flee than others.

BTW, I'm one of the minority around here who think people should get whatever they want(once they get enough experience caring for Ts in general) if they have what it takes(staying calm, being careful and thinking before you act is extremely important with OW) and feel ready and I love OBTs so I'm not saying this lightly.

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## gobey

Bro this thread is 4 years old. You're probably not going to get an answer.


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## lalberts9310

First of, this thread is old.. 2015 is a whole different story than in 2011.

Second, I don't think the folks here "blah blah blah" for nothing, there's a reason why OW ts such as OBTs are advised against for beginners, they are not even a good starter OW. Yeah sure, they are hardy, cheap and always available but does it outweigh the cons? They tend too try and escape more often, they'd rather greet you with their fangs before attempting to retreat, they are fast, not to mention one of the OWs with the most potent venom.

You have 6 years experience with a g. Rosea, LP and GBB.. get more NW tropical terrestrials or try NW aboreals (psalmos and tapies), before diving into the deep end.

 Anyone can have 20 years experience with a G. Rosea or B. Albo, but that does not make them experienced enough or even prepare them for an OW.

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## Sam_Peanuts

lalberts9310 said:


> You have 6 years experience with a g. Rosea, LP and GBB.. get more NW tropical terrestrials or try NW aboreals (psalmos and tapies), before diving into the deep end.
> 
> Anyone can have 20 years experience with a G. Rosea or B. Albo, but that does not make them experienced enough or even prepare them for an OW.


The GBB on the other hand is a good middle ground between calmer Ts and an OBT because of their speed and they also web a lot.

There's no need to follow some arbitrary ladder of species to own until you reach the one you actually want(except for the first one) as long as you have the right qualities for keeping harder ones. Some people should never get one and some can without any problems, it depends more on the person than the actual experience(if you have a certain minimum amount of course).

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## lalberts9310

Sam_Peanuts said:


> The GBB on the other hand is a good middle ground between calmer Ts and an OBT because of their speed and they also web a lot.
> 
> There's no need to follow some arbitrary ladder of species to own until you reach the one you actually want(except for the first one) as long as you have the right qualities for keeping harder ones. Some people should never get one and some can without any problems, it depends more on the person than the actual experience(if you have a certain minimum amount of course).


I agree with you completely on the GBB.. I personally would try a psalmo or tapie before getting an OW.. they are a way better introduction to OW ts and just to get a feel for it..

I disagree with you on the arbitrary ladder, however.. it would be just as good as telling someone who never even read up on tarantulas, to get an OBT.. there needs to be practical experience with faster and more defensive Ts before getting an OW.. but jumping from gbb to obt? Eh... gbb is great to advance, but not a great intro to OWs whereas psalmos and tapies fits the bill perfectly..

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## Poec54

gobey said:


> Bro this thread is 4 years old. You're probably not going to get an answer.



You don't know that.  I can picture someone sitting in front of a keyboard in their bathrobe, their head bobbing from periodically nodding off, as they keep refreshing their screen hoping for a response.

---------- Post added 03-05-2015 at 03:44 PM ----------




Sam_Peanuts said:


> There's no need to follow some arbitrary ladder of species to own until you reach the one you actually want, as long as you have the right qualities for keeping harder ones.


- The 'ladder' isn't arbitrary.  It's very logical and though out.  Keeps people from getting in over their heads, which in turn has an effect on the people and pets they live with.  It's not just all about 'Me, me, me.'  

- 'Right qualities'?  That's the problem, when they skip rungs on the ladder, they often don't know what the right qualities are for a couple rungs up.  

What's the hurry?

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## Graeboe

Poec54 said:


> You don't know that.  I can picture someone sitting in front of a keyboard in their bathrobe, their head bobbing from periodically nodding off, as they keep refreshing their screen hoping for a response.




I hope they at least took shower breaks

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## lalberts9310

Poec54 said:


> You don't know that.  I can picture someone sitting in front of a keyboard in their bathrobe, their head bobbing from periodically nodding off, as they keep refreshing their screen hoping for a response.
> 
> ---------- Post added 03-05-2015 at 03:44 PM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> - The 'ladder' isn't arbitrary.  It's very logical and though out.  Keeps people from getting in over their heads, which in turn has an effect on the people and pets they live with.  It's not just all about 'Me, me, me.'
> 
> - 'Right qualities'?  That's the problem, when they skip rungs on the ladder, they often don't know what the right qualities are for a couple rungs up.
> 
> What's the hurry?


My point exactly, a GBB is great to advance, but wouldn't prep for an OW, ESPECIALY not for an OBT.. thus why I suggest more NW tropical terrestrials or NW aboreals..

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## kellysaxez

lalberts9310 said:


> First of, this thread is old.. 2015 is a whole different story than in 2011.
> 
> Second, I don't think the folks here "blah blah blah" for nothing, there's a reason why OW ts such as OBTs are advised against for beginners, they are not even a good starter OW. Yeah sure, they are hardy, cheap and always available but does it outweigh the cons? They tend too try and escape more often, they'd rather greet you with their fangs before attempting to retreat, they are fast, not to mention one of the OWs with the most potent venom.
> 
> You have 6 years experience with a g. Rosea, LP and GBB.. get more NW tropical terrestrials or try NW aboreals (psalmos and tapies), before diving into the deep end.
> 
> Anyone can have 20 years experience with a G. Rosea or B. Albo, but that does not make them experienced enough or even prepare them for an OW.


Well chastised and will take your advice. I've changed my mind anyway. NO sense fighting city hall. Let the more experienced hobbyists tackle the troublesome T's. I'm a 50 year old retired addictions therapist that used to work in the penal system. That was enough stress for me. No sense inviting unwanted stress back into my life. I'll stick with something like a curly hair, or maybe brave a P. metalica even before I ever think about and OBT. Thank you so much for your advice and the reprimand about being brave enough on the boards to speak my mind. 

Be well

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## gambite

RatKing216 said:


> So here I am once again. Totally in love with Idea of owning an OBT. But not sure due to the speed and aggression. I wouldn't mind a Cobalt Blue otherwise as well. But I leave it in your hands for help. What is everyone's suggestions as far as a starter OW would be concerned? I have 1 T thusfar. She is a 1 1/2" Green Bottle Blue. Also I understand everyone hates common names, but since I'm new could we try and post the common along with the Scientific name? I might learn one day! Lastly, has anyone ever seen one of those Rattlesnake Tarantulas out of Australia!!??!! Those are SOOO sweet!!! They look sexy as hell too! That may sound a bit weird but just look at them sometime! YouTube it!


I am  not really big on the "starter species" concept. If you want an OBT, get an OBT. Just make sure you know what you are getting into. They are not really that bad though.

EDIT: oh wow talk about necrothreading lol

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## Sam_Peanuts

Poec54 said:


> - The 'ladder' isn't arbitrary.  It's very logical and though out.  Keeps people from getting in over their heads, which in turn has an effect on the people and pets they live with.  It's not just all about 'Me, me, me.'
> 
> - 'Right qualities'?  That's the problem, when they skip rungs on the ladder, they often don't know what the right qualities are for a couple rungs up.
> 
> What's the hurry?


We'll never agree on that one so I won't say much.

It's not a question of being in a hurry or not, I just don't see a reason for waiting past a certain point where you know mostly what to expect(you'll never expect everything from a T though) if you're comfortable with the idea and have acquirement basic T keeping experience. And if you live alone with no pets, it can be just about "Me, me me.". If not, then yes, that's something to consider.

As for the right qualities they don't have to discover them if I tell them, it boils down to how calm you are in difficult situations and if you're generally a careful person. If not, then that would be a good idea to go at it with lots of increments like you suggest, but if you already have those qualities, you won't gain much(in my opinion and personal experience) other than knowing the specific caracteristics of the T you keep which won't help much for the next one.


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## lalberts9310

kellysaxez said:


> Well chastised and will take your advice. I've changed my mind anyway. NO sense fighting city hall. Let the more experienced hobbyists tackle the troublesome T's. I'm a 50 year old retired addictions therapist that used to work in the penal system. That was enough stress for me. No sense inviting unwanted stress back into my life. I'll stick with something like a curly hair, or maybe brave a P. metalica even before I ever think about and OBT. Thank you so much for your advice and the reprimand about being brave enough on the boards to speak my mind.
> 
> Be well


Nobody here is saying this just to say it.. there's a reason behind everyone's advice and opinions.. and the biggest reason behind it all is for the sake of the survival of the hobby.. taking that you are 50 years of age makes me think you're more sensible and responsible.. I'm not being mean or rude but we take this hobby and tarantulas very seriously.. try out a psalmopoeus Irminia, or tapinauchenius.. they grow fast, try getting a juvenile or sub-adult.. if you do fine with those I don't think there's a problem with getting an OW..

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## kellysaxez

gobey said:


> Bro this thread is 4 years old. You're probably not going to get an answer.


A. I realize the age of the post, but why not ask anyway? IF I didn't get an answer that's okay. I'm only attempting to get as many differing opinions and weight the pro's and con's of a choice point.

B. I'm NOT a bro, thank you kindly.

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## gambite

The idea of "working up a ladder" of species is silly because it involves purchasing a bunch of animals that you don't necessarily want before getting the one you DO want. I don't think thats the mentality that one should have when getting animals as pets. Though its definitely good to get some experience before getting something with a crazy temperament, this does not necessarily mean you have to buy a ton of extras.


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## kellysaxez

Sam_Peanuts said:


> We'll never agree on that one so I won't say much.
> 
> It's not a question of being in a hurry or not, I just don't see a reason for waiting past a certain point where you know mostly what to expect(you'll never expect everything from a T though) if you're comfortable with the idea and have acquirement basic T keeping experience. And if you live alone with no pets, it can be just about "Me, me me.". If not, then yes, that's something to consider.
> 
> As for the right qualities they don't have to discover them if I tell them, it boils down to how calm you are in difficult situations and if you're generally a careful person. If not, then that would be a good idea to go at it with lots of increments like you suggest, but if you already have those qualities, you won't gain much(in my opinion and personal experience) other than knowing the specific caracteristics of the T you keep which won't help much for the next one.


Well said Sam. I'm a 50 year old retired addictions therapist that spent the majority of the last years of my career working in the prison/penal system, IN the facilities themselves actually. Not that that makes much of a difference when it comes to a creature that is as mute and irrational as an OBT, but what it does mean is that I have the temperament that is patient, cautious, mindful, and ready for the moment to change in a heartbeat and respond wisely rather than react emotionally or irrationally, and, truth be told, Ive been "dissuaded" by so many, one even stating that "it's a man's world". Go figure. Anyway, I've gone back and forth now from a Curly hair to a Horned baboon and have finally settled on a rather rare and new species to keepers. The Encyocratella olivacea. It's a 2.5" sling and, I'm told, Less aggressive then the OBT and less inclined to dash at me.

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## Sam_Peanuts

I can't comment on their temperament, but since OBTs have pretty much the worst reputation, it's not hard to find less aggressive out there.

I'm actually going to buy two 1/2" Encyocratella olivacea sling on the 22nd(as well as a bunch of others), they're at the very top of my wishlist.


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## Angel Minkov

All this fuss with OBTs... With a little common sense and ACTUAL experience (studying your spiders reactions to different things, rehouses and so on), everyone can handle them. Ive always been convinced that even with 10 years of experience with aggressive species, if it wants to tag me, it inadvertently will. Everyone decides for himself if he is ready. And, imo, a bad thing to do (and proof you are not ready) is asking for advice on a forum.

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## Ellenantula

Angel Minkov said:


> All this fuss with OBTs... With a little common sense and ACTUAL experience (studying your spiders reactions to different things, rehouses and so on), everyone can handle them. Ive always been convinced that even with 10 years of experience with aggressive species, if it wants to tag me, it inadvertently will. Everyone decides for himself if he is ready. And, imo, a bad thing to do (and proof you are not ready) is asking for advice on a forum.


Agreed!  When I get ready for my singapore blue, I am not asking a single soul here "if I should." 

(not getting one anytime soon, but already know I won't tell a soul until I can refer to it "what? this old thing?")

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## miss moxie

Boy. I've seen some people get defensive when they aren't given the answer they want-- but I've never seen them try to breathe life into a four year old thread to get the 'okay' from someone who they hope will tell them what they want to hear.

"Daaaad- mom said I can't have a red ryder bb gun, can I have a red ryder bb gun?!" 

Next he'll try writing to Santa, perhaps?

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## gobey

I just got my Ts... You guys are here for things I have questions about as I raise them when I run into things that stump me. 

Not to make my decisions for me.

Most people I wager starting a thread like "should I get an OBT" are going to get that OBT anyways.

Seems here though somebody actually listened. Which is cool.

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## Ellenantula

kellysaxez said:


> Well said Sam. I'm a 50 year old retired addictions therapist


Jealous -- how does one retire at 50?  You must have invested or saved better than I.  lol
I have a few clients with addictions -- very manipulative population in my more limited experience.  Don't know how you dealt with that as a career.  



kellysaxez said:


> have finally settled on a rather rare and new species to keepers. The Encyocratella olivacea. It's a 2.5" sling and, I'm told, Less aggressive then the OBT and less inclined to dash at me.


Had to google this one -- pretty!  Don't know anything about their temperament or requirements.

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## lalberts9310

gobey said:


> I just got my Ts... You guys are here for things I have questions about as I raise them when I run into things that stump me.
> 
> Not to make my decisions for me.
> 
> Most people I wager starting a thread like "should I get an OBT" are going to get that OBT anyways.
> 
> Seems here though somebody actually listened. Which is cool.


And people are here to warn against the dangers of rushing into things, warning against bad decisions.. bad decisions leads to a bad reputation for the hobby and tarantulas.. the hobby you love, the tarantuals you love.. we don't make decisions for people, we just try to contribute to making better, safer and wiser decisions..

If better decisions are made.. there won't be bite reports, and there won't be threads that sounds more or less like this: "my obt escaped, please help, it's my first T and I don't want to lose it!" or "I just got my first T, it's an OBT, how do I care for it? Can I hold it?"

No running the risk of certain species being banned..


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## Poec54

gambite said:


> The idea of "working up a ladder" of species is silly because it involves purchasing a bunch of animals that you don't necessarily want before getting the one you DO want. I don't think thats the mentality that one should have when getting animals as pets. Though its definitely good to get some experience before getting something with a crazy temperament, this does not necessarily mean you have to buy a ton of extras.


So you're a beginner with an ego and decide to get an advanced species...Great.  Why would you want a species that fits your skill/experience level?  That's for old ladies.  All those 'boring' beautiful docile species, and you with all that testosterone to flaunt.  I get it.  That's why they let student drivers race for NASCAR.  Learn as you go.  Mind over matter.  Mind over reality.

---------- Post added 03-05-2015 at 08:32 PM ----------




gambite said:


> I am  not really big on the "starter species" concept. If you want an OBT, get an OBT. Just make sure you know what you are getting into.


And without a foundation of working their way up, they *don't know *what they're getting into.  'Online research' is no substitute for experience.  That's laughable.

---------- Post added 03-05-2015 at 08:35 PM ----------




Sam_Peanuts said:


> As for the right qualities they don't have to discover them if I tell them


Does this seem to be just the least bit egotistical to you?  So you can teach someone to swim over the phone?

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## 14pokies

Its easy to see where this thread is headed

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## lalberts9310

14pokies said:


> View attachment 134821
> 
> 
> Its easy to see where this thread is headed


Ahahahahahaha!!! Lmao

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## Poec54

14pokies said:


> Its easy to see where this thread is headed



'OBT's for beginners' is such bad advice it's not going to go unchallenged.

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## Sam_Peanuts

Poec54 said:


> And without a foundation of working their way up, they *don't know *what they're getting into.  'Online research' is no substitute for experience.  That's laughable.


Or you start by being extremely careful and expecting the worst with all of your actions and learn by watching how it act and react. The foundation is your first, calmer T, it's not nothing.



Poec54 said:


> Does this seem to be just the least bit egotistical to you?  So you can teach someone to swim over the phone?


I don't see what I'm supposed to teach here, I'm just telling a fact. Having those two qualities will make your life much easier with OW than people who don't have them. It's like saying a banana is yellow.
They know how they are, I don't.


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## Biollantefan54

I have used the ladder system and really like it. There are many tarantulas of each 'level' to pick from. Started with slow NW terrestrials, then speedier NW terrestrials like GBB and H. incei, next I got a Ceratogyrus then got Avics, then a Psalmopoeus, then finally OW arboreals.

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## Poec54

Sam_Peanuts said:


> It's like saying a banana is yellow.  They know how they are, I don't.


_Guard: _Are you suggesting bananas migrate?

_Arthur:_ Not at all, they could be carried.

_Guard: _What?  A swallow carrying a banana?  

_Arthur:_ It could grab it by the peel.

_Guard:_ It's not a question of where it grips it.  It's a simple question of weight ratios.  A five ounce bird could not carry a one pound banana.

_Arthur: _Well it doesn't matter.  Go and tell your master...

_Guard: _Listen, in order to maintain air speed velocity, a swallow needs to beat it's wings 43 times every second, right?

_Arthur:_ Please!

_Guard 2:_ It could be carried by an African swallow!

_Guard: _Oh yeah, an African swallow maybe, but not a European swallow.  That's my point.  

_Guard 2: _oh yeah, I agree with that.

_Guard: _But then, African swallows are non-migratory.

_Guard 2:_ Wait a minute. Supposing two swallows carried it together?

_Guard: _What, held under the dorsal guiding feathers?

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## Ellenantula

Poec54 said:


> So you can teach someone to swim over the phone?


Okay, I probably agree with you anyway, so this may come off like I am arguing against what appears to be a fair point...

But it always amazes me people apparently can learn to make meth and build bombs from the internet.
I think a person with enough interest in something can apparently figure it out with less experience or assistance than one might otherwise expect.

(nah, don't flame me, yours was a fair point)

---------- Post added 03-05-2015 at 09:38 PM ----------




Biollantefan54 said:


> I have used the ladder system and really like it.


Yeah, I didn't know about the ladder system.  My first post was where I pulled my hamstring trying to skip a few rungs....

I can honestly say I am enjoying my NWs and only looking into NWs for now.
Maybe in a year or two I can say the same for OWs.


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## awiec

Ellenantula said:


> Okay, I probably agree with you anyway, so this may come off like I am arguing against what appears to be a fair point...
> 
> But it always amazes me people apparently can learn to make meth and build bombs from the internet.
> I think a person with enough interest in something can apparently figure it out with less experience or assistance than one might otherwise expect.
> 
> (nah, don't flame me, yours was a fair point)
> 
> ---------- Post added 03-05-2015 at 09:38 PM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I didn't know about the ladder system.  My first post was where I pulled my hamstring trying to skip a few rungs....
> 
> I can honestly say I am enjoying my NWs and only looking into NWs for now.
> Maybe in a year or two I can say the same for OWs.


Yes but a bomb is not going to get up and take off if you scare it. Yes meth labs and poorly made bombs can explode but they are not living creatures with little brains and big fangs. Though really the spider that was chosen is one of the best in this case of scenario where the person is hellbent on an OW no matter what anyone says.


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## Ellenantula

Poec54 said:


> _Guard: _Are you suggesting bananas migrate?


lol -- finally got my dvd and watched this again.  But did a double-take at the improv -- thought this was a Tim Benzedrine post.

Reactions: Like 1


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## cold blood

gambite said:


> The idea of "working up a ladder" of species is silly because it involves purchasing a bunch of animals that you don't necessarily want before getting the one you DO want. I don't think thats the mentality that one should have when getting animals as pets. Though its definitely good to get some experience before getting something with a crazy temperament, this does not necessarily mean you have to buy a ton of extras.


I just don't get this...There are so many of great species, is your view of what you like that incredibly limited?  Most with big collections, even of primarily OW, still enjoy many beginner t's.   I see your "silliness" as a pure advantage, you get ones you may not have considered, only to find out they are pretty darn cool afterall.  There's been several I got that I didn't really want, B. smithi and G. pulchripes immediately come to mind...yet despite the fact that I wasn't exactly all excited about getting them, both have become favorites.   

If you really love t's, you're probably unlikely to just dislike and ignore the t until it dies.

There was a thread not too long ago about t's you regret buying, very, very few had any regrets, even with mundane t's like rosea.

Stepping stones, so to speak, are everywhere and simply logical.  

Would you give your 16 year old son a Dodge challenger hellcat because he wants to learn to drive fast...or would a used civic si be a more logical first step on the ladder?

Reactions: Like 3


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## 14pokies

Poec54 said:


> 'OBT's for beginners' is such bad advice it's not going to go unchallenged.


I agree its important to inform newcomers of the risks... I was just makeing a funny... Sorry I will go kneel on broomsticks and self flagellate for my insolence..[Yawns out a]Lols...

Reactions: Like 3


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## Ellenantula

awiec said:


> Yes meth labs and poorly made bombs can explode but they are not living creatures with little brains and big fangs.


My point was how scary it is what a very determined person can accomplish with very little experience or guidance.
That said, upon reflection of your post, I now conclude I am far more afraid of bombs and meth labs than OWs.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sam_Peanuts

cold blood said:


> Would you give your 16 year old son a Dodge challenger hellcat because he wants to learn to drive fast...or would a used civic si be a more logical first step on the ladder?


If he wants to drive fast, that's a terrible reason and proves he's not responsible enough, but why not if he's a careful driver and a responsible person? It won't be much different from a civic if he's careful with his driving and follow the speed limit.

The point is exactly this, not all people act the same way in different situations like not all teenagers would drive insanely fast even if they had a car that could.


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## cold blood

Sam_Peanuts said:


> If he wants to drive fast, that's a terrible reason and proves he's not responsible enough, but why not if he's a careful driver and a responsible person? It won't be much different from a civic if he's careful with his driving and follow the speed limit.
> 
> The point is exactly this, not all people act the same way in different situations like not all teenagers would drive insanely fast even if they had a car that could.


LMAO, I wouldn't trust the most responsible teenager on the planet with a hellcat...to do so would just be irresponsible...they may be the easiest car on the planet to get away from their driver.   For all but the most experienced drivers, they are an accident waiting to happen.   The first one bought in CO was crashed on the way home from the dealership by an older adult.

By "wanting to go fast", I meant had aspirations of racing.

Reactions: Like 1


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## miss moxie

Biollantefan54 said:


> I have used the ladder system and really like it. There are many tarantulas of each 'level' to pick from. Started with slow NW terrestrials, then speedier NW terrestrials like GBB and H. incei, next I got a Ceratogyrus then got Avics, then a Psalmopoeus, then finally OW arboreals.


Most people do enjoy the ladder system. It's fulfilling, tackling challenges at a paced rate. Taking the time to learn one thing and focusing on it instead of five things at once. It doesn't make you a better keeper to be able to juggle it all right away. Anyone who is truly intent on learning rather than tallying notches in the proverbial belt will take their time. They'll be thorough, rather than rushing. And when you make that next step to something more advanced, you feel rewarded. Because you waited. Patience isn't easy, and to resist for the sake of yourself and the tarantulas is important.  I just got my first OWs and I feel so satisfied because I know how much work I put into being ready. I think back to how I admired pokies and their looks and dreaming of 'some day'.

When 'some day' comes, the sense of self-pride and accomplishment is wonderful. The problem is with how many hobbyists lack the self discipline to wait for what they want. 

Take your time, stop to smell the sphagnum moss!

Also, yeesh. Getting PM'd sarcastic things because I spoke my mind. Some people.

Reactions: Like 5 | Disagree 1


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## kellysaxez

14pokies said:


> View attachment 134821
> 
> 
> Its easy to see where this thread is headed


LMAO thank you 14. Really, I can't remember ever experiencing such rude, condescending and audacious behavior before. Even within the confines of the places where I used to work. Oh well, one must remember it is all said, or mostly all said, with good intentions at heart. Water off a ducks back

Reactions: Like 1


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## gambite

Poec54 said:


> So you're a beginner with an ego and decide to get an advanced species...Great.  Why would you want a species that fits your skill/experience level?  That's for old ladies.  All those 'boring' beautiful docile species, and you with all that testosterone to flaunt.  I get it.  That's why they let student drivers race for NASCAR.  Learn as you go.  Mind over matter.  Mind over reality.
> 
> ---------- Post added 03-05-2015 at 08:32 PM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> And without a foundation of working their way up, they *don't know *what they're getting into.  'Online research' is no substitute for experience.  That's laughable.
> 
> ---------- Post added 03-05-2015 at 08:35 PM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> Does this seem to be just the least bit egotistical to you?  So you can teach someone to swim over the phone?


You can get experience with animals without buying them. Check them out at the LPS, other people's animals, at the expos, every vendor I have ever met was fine with people handling animals they were selling. Eventually you are gonna have to jump in the deep end either way. My friend got an OBT as his first tarantula, and sure it was a bit of an eye-opening experience for him, but it wasn't anything he couldn't quickly learn and adapt to.

Also thanks to YouTube, its easy to look up videos of the species you are interested in and see how other peoples' act, and how others are taking care of them and dealing with them.


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## 14pokies

kellysaxez said:


> LMAO thank you 14. Really, I can't remember ever experiencing such rude, condescending and audacious behavior before. Even within the confines of the places where I used to work. Oh well, one must remember it is all said, or mostly all said, with good intentions at heart. Water off a ducks back


Welcome to the boards Lol! We will beat each other down but we're also the first ones to pick each other up!

---------- Post added 03-05-2015 at 11:18 PM ----------




gambite said:


> You can get experience with animals without buying them. Check them out at the LPS, other people's animals, at the expos, every vendor I have ever met was fine with people handling animals they were selling. Eventually you are gonna have to jump in the deep end either way. My friend got an OBT as his first tarantula, and sure it was a bit of an eye-opening experience for him, but it wasn't anything he couldn't quickly learn and adapt to.
> 
> Also thanks to YouTube, its easy to look up videos of the species you are interested in and see how other peoples' act, and how others are taking care of them and dealing with them.


I don't completely disagree with you but its my experience that your buddy is the exception to the rule, not the status quo... My buddy got an obt early on and when it escaped he tried killing it with a towel because he was scared of it...
Newbs and wicked defensive ts can be a lethal combo and always the T pays the higher price... 
You gotta be carefully on YouTube its a wealth of both knowledge and misinformation... One of the largest T vid makers on the tube takes terrible care of his spiders..he has lost more ts in a year than I have lost in 2 decades! His mythbusters vids are great but his care is lax..I'm afraid a lot of newbs would follow his example and kill there Ts...The best place to learn about Ts is this forum!

Reactions: Like 2


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## Sam_Peanuts

cold blood said:


> By "wanting to go fast", I meant had aspirations of racing.


That's a problem with all the car and race analogies here, it's always a dangerous thing with the intention of doing something dangerous which would obviously end badly.

What I'm trying to say is that if you have the dangerous thing without the dangerous intention, then there's a lot less risk of things ending up badly.


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## Poec54

gambite said:


> Eventually you are gonna have to jump in the deep end either way.


Wrong.  The majority of tarantula owners never get OW's.  Some can stop with having NW's only, even docile NW's, and be perfectly content.  There's a lot of beautiful spiders in that category.

---------- Post added 03-05-2015 at 11:57 PM ----------




Sam_Peanuts said:


> What I'm trying to say is that if you have the dangerous thing without the dangerous intention, then there's a lot less risk of things ending up badly.


Not when it's a living thing, wild and unpredictable.  There's a small margin of error.

Reactions: Like 2


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## gobey

lalberts9310 said:


> And people are here to warn against the dangers of rushing into things, warning against bad decisions.. bad decisions leads to a bad reputation for the hobby and tarantulas.. the hobby you love, the tarantuals you love.. we don't make decisions for people, we just try to contribute to making better, safer and wiser decisions..
> 
> If better decisions are made.. there won't be bite reports, and there won't be threads that sounds more or less like this: "my obt escaped, please help, it's my first T and I don't want to lose it!" or "I just got my first T, it's an OBT, how do I care for it? Can I hold it?"
> 
> No running the risk of certain species being banned..


I'm not refuting this. You guys do a good thing.

I'm just playing pessimist here. 

How many "should I get an OBT?" threads do you think are started with the TC not already having their credit card ready?

Like I said here seems to be the exception. So... You guys fought the good fight and won.

But again I'm not questioning your behavior.

Mostly the point these topics. When it seems like most is to (as Poec points out) to play macho and proclaim "I AM GETTING THIS TARANTULA! DID YOU ALL SEE THAT I'M GETTING THIS TARANTULA!? I'M ABOUT TO BUY IT.... OK... HERE GOES.... DON'T TRY TO STOP ME"

Just skip that phase and be an adult about it if you're not going to listen.

I have some OW.

I didn't make a bunch of threads about it.

I don't give advice about them.

I listen to everything these guys say about them. I'm aware thay my experiences mean nothing in the long run so far. I am but a spec in the tarantula keeping timeline.

But I don't wave it around as some badge of honor. They're just part of my collection. And it's a collection I'll readily admit I grew too large too quick. Hence I'm done. 3 just died. You bet I want to replace them. Especially my LP. 

But I have 13 left that demand my attention. And I mean. I let 3 die somehow. Including that LP who was much before his time at only just under 6".

And the #1 thing that has humbled me was my OBT slings. I'd worked very well with 2 different adults. I've rehoused them, unpacked them, housed them. One of them was feisty too. Still was easy to figure out.
 I have two 1.5" P. regalis, 2 H. maculata slings too 1" and .5". All of which have been very simple to learn and care for and house and maintain.

These 2 slings.

Are by far the most frustrating tarantulas I have. I actually do not enjoy feeding them, giving them water, cleaning... Etc.
They scramble, spaz out, bolt, want to escape. And grow about as quick as the Pokies do. So like weeds.

They're cool to observe. They web like crazy. I watched both of them molt. They're orange with patterned abdomens even at that size.

But are an absolute handful.

And deserve every ounce of respect and reputation they are given.

Are they too much? No. But are they what I expected/wanted? No.

I'm honest at least about my path. And I'll share that with the new and old here.


Back to my original point. It seems a lot of these threads are people fooling themselves.

Reactions: Like 5


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## Angel Minkov

I havent used the ladder system. I got into OW arboreals 1 year ago. Before that I had kept only B. vagand, LS and G. pulchra as species. For me it was easy to learn the attitudes of my Ts, but Im 17. For a person who wants a bit of beauty in his life with little to no stress, Id reccommend G. pulchra, Cyriocosmus elegans, Pamphobeteus sp. platyomma, Xenestis spp. or even P. metallica (mine are fairly docile).


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## lalberts9310

gobey said:


> I'm not refuting this. You guys do a good thing.
> 
> I'm just playing pessimist here.
> 
> How many "should I get an OBT?" threads do you think are started with the TC not already having their credit card ready?
> 
> Like I said here seems to be the exception. So... You guys fought the good fight and won.
> 
> But again I'm not questioning your behavior.
> 
> Mostly the point these topics. When it seems like most is to (as Poec points out) to play macho and proclaim "I AM GETTING THIS TARANTULA! DID YOU ALL SEE THAT I'M GETTING THIS TARANTULA!? I'M ABOUT TO BUY IT.... OK... HERE GOES.... DON'T TRY TO STOP ME"
> 
> Just skip that phase and be an adult about it if you're not going to listen.
> 
> I have some OW.
> 
> I didn't make a bunch of threads about it.
> 
> I don't give advice about them.
> 
> I listen to everything these guys say about them. I'm aware thay my experiences mean nothing in the long run so far. I am but a spec in the tarantula keeping timeline.
> 
> But I don't wave it around as some badge of honor. They're just part of my collection. And it's a collection I'll readily admit I grew too large too quick. Hence I'm done. 3 just died. You bet I want to replace them. Especially my LP.
> 
> But I have 13 left that demand my attention. And I mean. I let 3 die somehow. Including that LP who was much before his time at only just under 6".
> 
> And the #1 thing that has humbled me was my OBT slings. I'd worked very well with 2 different adults. I've rehoused them, unpacked them, housed them. One of them was feisty too. Still was easy to figure out.
> I have two 1.5" P. regalis, 2 H. maculata slings too 1" and .5". All of which have been very simple to learn and care for and house and maintain.
> 
> These 2 slings.
> 
> Are by far the most frustrating tarantulas I have. I actually do not enjoy feeding them, giving them water, cleaning... Etc.
> They scramble, spaz out, bolt, want to escape. And grow about as quick as the Pokies do. So like weeds.
> 
> They're cool to observe. They web like crazy. I watched both of them molt. They're orange with patterned abdomens even at that size.
> 
> But are an absolute handful.
> 
> And deserve every ounce of respect and reputation they are given.
> 
> Are they too much? No. But are they what I expected/wanted? No.
> 
> I'm honest at least about my path. And I'll share that with the new and old here.
> 
> 
> Back to my original point. It seems a lot of these threads are people fooling themselves.


This, THIS just proves it. Thank you.

Sorry for your loss tough 

---------- Post added 03-06-2015 at 12:40 PM ----------




miss moxie said:


> Also, yeesh. Getting PM'd sarcastic things because I spoke my mind. Some people.


Well that is very unnecessary.. I would've understand if you were talking a load of BS (but you didn't! lol).. very grown up people! Very mature!.. ignore them moxie, some people just don't have better things to do with their time

Reactions: Like 1


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