# My Very Fussy MILLIPEDE Substrate



## mickiem (Dec 15, 2017)

I have been mixing my own substrate and changing it a little each batch to improve it.  This is the mix I have been happy with for a year or so.  It seems fussy with all the rinsing, baking etc., but my losses are almost 0 and all but 1 mature species have produced pedelings (I most likely had pedelings there but also isopods and I never saw pedelings - you do the math ).  This isn't the only substrate recipe that works, but this is the one that works for me.  I mix it 30 gallons at a time, so 10+ gallons of each portion and then about 1/3 gallon of calcium.  I know that isn't mathematically accurate, but I'm an artist not an engineer.  I keep it moist to the point you can almost squeeze a drop of water out of it, but you can't.  If you put a handful in a paper towel, the paper towel shouldn't have an obvious wet spot.  I stir through it when it is not being used to prevent anaerobic bacteria and I add springtails to each new set up.

*MILLIPEDE* *SUBSTRATE MIX*

*33%*
COIR: It holds moisture and texture better than anything else I have found. Great for tunneling and making molting and birthing chambers.  Color lightens as it dries making it a good indicator of substrate moisture content.

*33%*
LEAF PORTION:
   Green Envy Leaf™ compost: (Or any other ORGANIC leaf compost). I bake it at 250° for two hours. Any bagged product may have plastic and metal pieces in it, so I go through it thoroughly.  This compost makes up about 2/3 of the leaf portion.
   Leaf Litter:  I rinse in water; then I let the leaves air dry.  After they dry, I bake them for two hours at 250°.  I cover the pans (to prevent flyaway leaves, for safety sake) with foil (shiny side out to reflect more heat).  Then I crumble them into the mix. (I also add leaves on the top.)  I use all or mostly oak, but also small quantities of apple, beech, birch, hickory, maple, rose, viburnum, walnut and other hardwoods.  This is the other 1/3 portion of the leaf portion.

*33%*
WOOD PORTION:
   Traeger Oak Pellets: Since these are very small chips, they decay more quickly than other wood sources.  I soak them first.  They increase 3 X their volume when soaked.  Anything to add variety can’t be a bad thing; possibly adding trace nutrients.
   Aspen Shreds: I think this adds a good texture to the overall mix.  It also decays quickly.  (If my enclosures become too wet, I add aspen to help dry them out.)
   Hardwood: If close to decaying, I put apple, cherry, hickory, maple and oak in my pressure cooker at 15 pounds pressure for 45 minutes. It should crumble nicely. I use both light and dark rotting wood, but I choose only wood that had isopods and others living within it.  If not close to decay, I run the wood through a small chipper reserved for “millipede safe” woods only.  I treat it the same as I treat my leaves: rinse and bake at 250° for two hours.
*Each of the wood components are of different sized particles and so all break down at different time intervals; adding a “time release” characteristic. By that I mean each source will become available for food at different periods.

*1%*
CALCIUM ADDITIVES:
   I mix:  Ground Cuttlefish Bone, Bird Grit, Oyster Shell Flour, caliche, egg shells (crushed and baked at 200˚ for 20 minutes). I also crumble shed skins from healthy reptiles into the mix.  I add this to the mix and I also sprinkle it on the substrate about 2X a month.

Reactions: Like 8 | Thanks 1 | Informative 11 | Helpful 2 | Useful 1


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## LawnShrimp (Dec 15, 2017)

This is a great recipe for substrate! I use basically the same thing and it works very well.


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## RTTB (Dec 16, 2017)

Thanks for sharing your recipe.

Reactions: Like 1


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## mickiem (Mar 18, 2018)

@Annamarie here is my 'recipe'.


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## Annamarie (Mar 18, 2018)

mickiem said:


> @Annamarie here is my 'recipe'.


Hey thank you for the tag! I have a few questions: 1. Do you need to use all three types of woods you mentioned in the wood section? 2. How often do you change the substrate in the enclosure? 3. Do you layer the different portions of the mixture or do you combine all of them?


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## mickiem (Mar 18, 2018)

Annamarie said:


> Hey thank you for the tag! I have a few questions: 1. Do you need to use all three types of woods you mentioned in the wood section? 2. How often do you change the substrate in the enclosure? 3. Do you layer the different portions of the mixture or do you combine all of them?


1. You wouldn't have to do so.  I like those types because they break down at different intervals so there is always something "rotting".  But that would happen eventually anyway.  The only thing I would worry about is using only aspen shreds.  It probably wouldn't be edible for a few months.  But if you could find some rotting wood in a chemical free area, you could just add that.  Make sure there are isopods or some kind of life in it to show you it is edible and then try to remove all the living creatures and bake it to make sure nothing hitchhikes that could be harmful to your AGBs.
2.  I add a handful of substrate to the top about every 3 months, but I don't change it but once or twice a year depending on how many millipedes are inside.
3.  I mix mine thoroughly and completely.  The added coco fiber gives it a good texture for tunnels and molting and breeding cells.  I know not every one mixes there and they also have good results.  The mixing just makes more sense to me.

Feel free to ask anything, anytime!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Annamarie (Mar 18, 2018)

Thank you so much that makes so much sense! If I have any further questions, I will let you know.


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## Joxer (Jul 19, 2018)

This sounds like a good mix for Isopods also. Question. On the pellets is it just oak or can you use others. (Apple, Mesquite, maple, cherry, or Hickory)

Thx.


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## mickiem (Jul 20, 2018)

Joxer said:


> This sounds like a good mix for Isopods also. Question. On the pellets is it just oak or can you use others. (Apple, Mesquite, maple, cherry, or Hickory)
> Thx.


because I think variety is the spice of life, I use many. I use mostly oak but I throw in a few pounds of 2-3 different kinds each time. Of all you mentioned, I would stay away from mesquite but I have used the rest. I use mesquite for the desert mix but I think it’s too resinous for the others. 

I use this mix for my isopods but I add organic orchid mix (no fertilizer). I also use more coconut fiber.


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## Joxer (Jul 20, 2018)

mickiem said:


> because I think variety is the spice of life, I use many. I use mostly oak but I throw in a few pounds of 2-3 different kinds each time. Of all you mentioned, I would stay away from mesquite but I have used the rest. I use mesquite for the desert mix but I think it’s too resinous for the others.
> 
> I use this mix for my isopods but I add organic orchid mix (no fertilizer). I also use more coconut fiber.


Orchid mix. Didn't think of that. Whats your opinion on wood chunks that you can get for say smokers. I smoke meat so hard wood chips and chunks I usually have on hand.


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## mickiem (Jul 20, 2018)

I have used those but they are pretty large which means they don’t break down as fast so don’t become available as food too quickly. Traeger pellets start breaking down immediately. I found an off brand and it soured after I soaked it. I baked it and used it anyway, but will switch back to Traeger. The off brand was at Rural King and was 1/4 the price. It lists the ingredients the same as traeger, but something is very different.


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## Exoskelos (Jul 21, 2018)

@mickiem Did that mixed wood substrate work well? PM me please. Also this thread should probably be stickied, I've had to hunt for it too many times, it's a good mix.


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## mickiem (Jul 21, 2018)

Exoskelos said:


> @mickiem Did that mixed wood substrate work well? PM me please. Also this thread should probably be stickied, I've had to hunt for it too many times, it's a good mix.


Thanks, Exo!  That wood is AWESOME!  I’m out of town until Monday but I definitely will pm you when I get back. I actually didn’t use it until a week ago. I spent 3 days making 40 gallons of substrate.  That should last a few months....

Reactions: Agree 1


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## MontePython (Feb 27, 2020)

@mickiem This may be a dumb question, but after you've baked everything, how do you get it damp again? Just add water until it's damp enough?

Also should I bake my coir as well?


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## MillipedeTrain (Feb 27, 2020)

mickiem said:


> I have been mixing my own substrate and changing it a little each batch to improve it.  This is the mix I have been happy with for a year or so.  It seems fussy with all the rinsing, baking etc., but my losses are almost 0 and all but 1 mature species have produced pedelings (I most likely had pedelings there but also isopods and I never saw pedelings - you do the math ).  This isn't the only substrate recipe that works, but this is the one that works for me.  I mix it 30 gallons at a time, so 10+ gallons of each portion and then about 1/3 gallon of calcium.  I know that isn't mathematically accurate, but I'm an artist not an engineer.  I keep it moist to the point you can almost squeeze a drop of water out of it, but you can't.  If you put a handful in a paper towel, the paper towel shouldn't have an obvious wet spot.  I stir through it when it is not being used to prevent anaerobic bacteria and I add springtails to each new set up.
> 
> *MILLIPEDE* *SUBSTRATE MIX
> 
> ...


I agree with everything except the cocofibre/coir (and bird grit) In my experience, that stuff is the devil. It kills millipedes and impacts them, particularly baby millipedes and it also pulls moisture out of adults. I will never use the stuff again. I also find they don’t like breeding/laying in it as much as they do black earth mix. Ever since I switched to Organic black earth as the main substrate, all my species are breeding successfully. I will never use cocofibre again.


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## mickiem (Feb 28, 2020)

MontePython said:


> @mickiem This may be a dumb question, but after you've baked everything, how do you get it damp again? Just add water until it's damp enough?
> 
> Also should I bake my coir as well?


Hi there, MontePython.  I don't bake the coir at all.  After I mix substrate I store it dry but I always add enough water to get it pretty damp before I add it to any enclosures.    Good luck with your Millies; it sure is an addictive hobby!

Reactions: Like 1


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## mickiem (Feb 28, 2020)

MillipedeTrain said:


> I agree with everything except the cocofibre/coir (and bird grit) In my experience, that stuff is the devil. It kills millipedes and impacts them, particularly baby millipedes and it also pulls moisture out of adults. I will never use the stuff again. I also find they don’t like breeding/laying in it as much as they do black earth mix. Ever since I switched to Organic black earth as the main substrate, all my species are breeding successfully. I will never use cocofibre again.


Hi MillipedeTrain.  I have heard a lot of people remark they don't feel coir is safe to use.  I'm an overly cautious person, but I feel coir is a good addition.  It creates a wonderful texture that helps build awesome tunnels and cells.  I feed supplemental foods about 2X a week and I never let the sub dry out.  Maybe those things prevent the coir from causing a problem.  I rarely lose a millipede, but when I do I don't check their intestines, so maybe its a problem of which I am unaware.  As far as the bird grit, I still have a lot of ingredients on the calcium portion but I don't use bird grit any more.  I use oyster shell flour.  Its very fine.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Arthroverts (Feb 28, 2020)

@mickiem, I tried to PM you in regards to a millipede group I am trying to get together but it seems your inbox is full. Should I contact you some other way or...?

Thanks,

Arthroverts


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## Indiglowoods (May 9, 2020)

These are the substrates I used for my juvenile giant african millipede. It hasn't arrived yet but I wanted to see if this was okay. I have mostly the coconut stuff on the bottom but then the blacker stuff on top. Any thoughts?


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## BugLord (May 9, 2020)

Indiglowoods said:


> These are the substrates I used for my juvenile giant african millipede. It hasn't arrived yet but I wanted to see if this was okay. I have mostly the coconut stuff on the bottom but then the blacker stuff on top. Any thoughts?


That's a good start; but I would recommend adding organic compost (no ferts) as well as decaying leaves and decaying wood (white wood that you can crumble with your hand). Coconut fibre and jungle mix contains little nutrients, so adding a lot of decaying organic matter (in the form of wood and leaves from hardwood trees as well as organic compost) will be exponential for your millipedes health! 

Dagan H.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## MillipedeTrain (May 9, 2020)

Indiglowoods said:


> These are the substrates I used for my juvenile giant african millipede. It hasn't arrived yet but I wanted to see if this was okay. I have mostly the coconut stuff on the bottom but then the blacker stuff on top. Any thoughts?


If you want your millipedes to breed and not have them die for impaction get rid of most of that coconut fibre. Coconut fibre is terrible. When I first got into millipedes I knew nothing about them and put them mainly on coconut fibre. It killed them all. 

The substrate you have for your millipedes is EXTREMELY important because unlike other creatures that simply use it for bedding to live and dig in, millipedes actually spend a significant amount of time burrowing in and eating all contents of their substrate! So if you have poor quality, lacking in nutritional value substrate your millipedes unfortunately will not live for a very long time as opposed to how much they could eating a proper nutritionally balanced substrate. Not only that but they especially will not breed successfully. I’m not trying to sound harsh here I’m trying to help you not make the same mistakes I did when I first got millipedes I watched a terrible video on YouTube that told me to put them directly onto coconut fibre with a few leaves and a stick. They all died very quickly despite the fact that I gave them more leaves and lots of moss and a bit of wood and sticks, nutritionally it just wasn’t enough. I tried again with a half coconut fibre half other organic black earth mix and I was still having some die but they weren’t breeding. Another bad thing about cocofibre is that it impacts babies and adults and pulls the moisture out of adult millipedes as it dries. These were all things I personally experienced with coco fibre which is why I hate it so much because I know it’s not safe. So after my first major loss and the second time of continued failures I was devastated and then spent lots of time researching appropriate substrates and then I spent hours making my ultimate substrate of which ALL my millipedes are happily eating, thriving, and breeding excessively upon!  Coconut fibre is not part of that and never will be. I have so many babies now I’m actually going to have to start separating the males from the females!

Here’s my substrate mix plus extras for happy ‘pedes. It’s not really too much different than the fussy millipede substrate except for the lack of coconut fibre. That stuff, especially in excess isn’t safe and this I know for a fact. Others are of course welcome to disagree. I just know what I’ve seen and experienced and I will never let my millipedes suffer again...Anyways, sorry I ramble on haha  without further delay...

My breeding millipede substrate

40% Organic Black earth soil bags purchased from the grocery store free of pesticides and fertilizers(made of Humus and peat loam. Humus is basically a fancy word for composted plant material, often collected from forests as well. Peat loam is the decaying matter from plants and Sphagnum moss harvested below the living sphagnum moss in peat bogs. It’s far more nutritional than peat moss itself.)
34% Baked maple and oak leaves
Baked decaying oak , alder, beech and maple wood
20% Sphagnum moss
5% Asian forest moss (the kind that is sold in the reptile section in a block sealed in plastic)
1% Shaved cuttlefish bone reduced to a fine powder
+ Springtails
+ Hypoaspis miles mites (Predatory mites that ONLY eat bad mites. So if you find grain mites disgusting like I do they’re wonderful! I don’t have a single grain mite in any of my enclosures now! However keep in mind they do eat springtails too so make sure your springtails are absolutely booming before you introduce some predatory mites into your enclosures! They will NOT harm babies or molting millipedes like isopods will!
+ Oak, maple, beech branches for climbing
+ Cork bark tubes for hiding
+ Pillow moss for decorations or to retain humidity
+ Small exoterra reptile caves for hiding
+ Exoterra water bowl that is filled with fresh filtered water at all times
+ Exoterra rock dish that is filled with fresh ORGANIC FRUITS & VEGGIES ONLY!
+ fake plastic plants for decoration

In all honesty I don’t really hold to the percentages too much regarding the leaves, decaying wood and black earth soil too closet because I mix in COPIOUS AMOUNTS of them!  And after I have mixed everything thoroughly I then add even more baked decaying wood on top as well as nice leaf layer across the entire top of the substrate because that acts as a cover and keeps the humidity in and keeps the substrate from drying out too quickly and gives your millipedes a place to hide and feel safe!


If there is one other thing I cannot possibly stress enough that poses a serious danger to millipedes that most people have no idea about...NEVER EVER PUT ISOPODS INTO YOUR MILLIPEDE ENCLOSURES ESPECIALLY IF YOU WANT TO BREED! Isopods gang up and kill and EAT babies, moulting millipedes, injured millipedes and even fully grown healthy adult millipedes! They’re TERRIBLE to poor millipedes!   Unless you have so many millipedes that them killing and eating a bunch of your millipedes doesn’t matter then I do not under any circumstances recommend! (Even in that case, I still wouldn’t recommend I would just recommend you separate the males instead if you have too many!)

Attached a buncha pics of my happy lil’ babies that are growing wonderfully! I have 3 different species of babies growing up together(soon to be bumblebee babies as they’ve laid eggs in my baby bin!) Attached a pic showing each of them together with their species name.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Indiglowoods (May 9, 2020)

DaganH said:


> That's a good start; but I would recommend adding organic compost (no ferts) as well as decaying leaves and decaying wood (white wood that you can crumble with your hand). Coconut fibre and jungle mix contains little nutrients, so adding a lot of decaying organic matter (in the form of wood and leaves from hardwood trees as well as organic compost) will be exponential for your millipedes health!
> 
> Dagan H.


Thank you, yes! I plan to hunt for those things outside when my 'pede is soon to arrive!

Reactions: Agree 1


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## The Odd Pet (Jun 8, 2020)

Hi @mickiem I tried to message you but your inbox is full.


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## Arthroverts (Jun 8, 2020)

The Odd Pet said:


> Hi @mickiem I tried to message you but your inbox is full.


Unfortunately @mickiem visits the forums very irregularly. More than a few of us have tried to PM her with no success.

Thanks,

Arthroverts


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## The Odd Pet (Jun 10, 2020)

Arthroverts said:


> Unfortunately @mickiem visits the forums very irregularly. More than a few of us have tried to PM her with no success.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Arthroverts


I know. I'm just hoping she sees it when she does come back on. Our old messages got deleted some how.


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## 0001 (Sep 23, 2020)

Hi guys, just wondering how much of this I would need to whip up for a 30x30x40 terrarium with 2-3 millipedes and a few beetles so I have enough for half a year? Is a mix like this something you’d need to whip up in advance so it can ferment/decay for a bit or is it suitable to mix-and-go?


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## mickiem (Sep 24, 2020)

Hi all!  Yes, i am very irregular.  Life is happening around me in a very demanding and urgent way and I am focused on "family things".  Hopefully it will settle soon.  I am back for now. I am not shipping animals yet.  I am selling only at Miamitown Reptile Show (Cincinnati). 

But to @0001  - I make the entire recipe in parts.  There are 3 parts, so figure how much you need and divide by 3.  I use a little less coco fiber than the other ingredients.  What kind of millipedes do you have?  I prefer to allow the length of the pede in depth and 2 1/2 X the length of the pede in width.  So for a 5" pede, you would allow 5" depth X 12.5" width.  Of course, a little bigger for more pedes.  Vague, I know.  Honestly, I would give them as much room as possible; these are minimums.   If your substrate is rich and good, the pedes don't have to trek far for a meal.  

There is no need to let it rot or ferment.  If you are adding the decayed wood to the wood portion, you have food readily available and the other wood sources will decay in a time release fashion.  Same with the leaves.  This is a "Now and Later" mix.  


Best of luck in your Millipede adventures!


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## Aracnophile (Aug 16, 2022)

MillipedeTrain said:


> If you want your millipedes to breed and not have them die for impaction get rid of most of that coconut fibre. Coconut fibre is terrible. When I first got into millipedes I knew nothing about them and put them mainly on coconut fibre. It killed them all.
> 
> The substrate you have for your millipedes is EXTREMELY important because unlike other creatures that simply use it for bedding to live and dig in, millipedes actually spend a significant amount of time burrowing in and eating all contents of their substrate! So if you have poor quality, lacking in nutritional value substrate your millipedes unfortunately will not live for a very long time as opposed to how much they could eating a proper nutritionally balanced substrate. Not only that but they especially will not breed successfully. I’m not trying to sound harsh here I’m trying to help you not make the same mistakes I did when I first got millipedes I watched a terrible video on YouTube that told me to put them directly onto coconut fibre with a few leaves and a stick. They all died very quickly despite the fact that I gave them more leaves and lots of moss and a bit of wood and sticks, nutritionally it just wasn’t enough. I tried again with a half coconut fibre half other organic black earth mix and I was still having some die but they weren’t breeding. Another bad thing about cocofibre is that it impacts babies and adults and pulls the moisture out of adult millipedes as it dries. These were all things I personally experienced with coco fibre which is why I hate it so much because I know it’s not safe. So after my first major loss and the second time of continued failures I was devastated and then spent lots of time researching appropriate substrates and then I spent hours making my ultimate substrate of which ALL my millipedes are happily eating, thriving, and breeding excessively upon!  Coconut fibre is not part of that and never will be. I have so many babies now I’m actually going to have to start separating the males from the females!
> 
> ...


I know that this is a relatively old thread, but just asking a question here, would this soil mix work for A.Gigas and successfully breeding them


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