# PetCo Conference Call Info



## viper69 (Apr 30, 2016)

Hello All,

I had my conference call with three of Petco's employees yesterday. We spoke for about 35 mins.

Let me preface by saying the following: Don't go on about "corporate America" etc and all the typical rants many of us do here (myself included), save it for another thread.

My purpose of the phone call was to discuss the selling of OW Ts to the general public.

They were very cordial/friendly/respectful. They were very happy that I came to them with my concern about their news release (thanks @gypsy cola ).

Here's what I learned in no specific order, just from my notes.

They have not shipped out any OW species anywhere in the USA.

They felt I had "valid concerns", their in-house Vet approved the species in the press release.

They have a supplier who is going to provide all their Ts. I was told the supplier is a "large, well known breeder", but because of a NDA they contractually could not provide me who their vendor is. I also know that their vendor provided them input as to what species would/could be sold.

I asked them how they came to selecting various OW species, as certain OW species made sense to me from a business perspective why they would be chosen. For example,_* Pterinochilus murinus*_ is easy to reproduce and brightly colored. A business needs a reasonable supply.

The answer I was provided was that Petco has sold OW Ts in the past, and they based the species offering on what species had sold well n the past, along with advice from their vendor who breeds them.

I spoke to them about the challenges of owning any OW T, and emphasized the medically significant venom as well. The clinical papers I have of people getting bit by an OW T. While I was told they have not ever received a report of an OW bite from a customer, they certainly wouldn't want that to happen, that's bad business, to which they all agreed.

I told them it's my opinion, that it isn't a question of IF Petco will have lawsuit on their hands, but a question of WHEN should they proceed with selling OWs, especially in this highly litigious country.

They said they are going to re-examine their species list and perhaps remove the OWs or some of them. I don't know if that will happen or not, time will tell. I hope they remove them, esp the Poki's.

I also suggested there are many NW species they could choose from. I specifically mentioned the Green-Bottle Blue if they were looking for a T that had bright color and is very hardy.
They are continuing to evaluate other NW species, such as the Costa Rican Tiger Rump.

In any event, Petco has a "tarantula project" I'll call it that (they didn't), and they see tarantulas as a growth segment of the pet market (it is), and any business is looking for new revenue streams. So for now, they are including Ts as a regular part of their offerings.

They said they want to help grow the hobby, ie expose Ts to more people in a responsible manner. We will see.

They welcomed any input I had to offer be it now, or down the road.

Later that evening one of the employees contacted me and they have found this forum (that's good).

It seems Petco is going to reach out to some members of the AB community. Below is a portion of the email that was sent to me.

_"We received a few letters from others on that board and are hoping to have calls with them too.  I want to make sure we ease their concerns as well.  I believe our customer service team is reaching out to them to see if we can get their phone numbers to setup a call.  I don’t know if they will want to talk to us or not.  If not, could you at least let them know that we spoke to you and that their concerns have been heard and will be addressed?  We’re here to promote their hobby, not hurt it."_

So whether people like it or not, Petco is moving forward w/selling tarantulas. My take on it is here's an opportunity to make things better than they are on some level.

I propose people who are actually interested in effecting change, *not complaining*, provide their constructive criticism, as I did, to Petco in the areas you feel they need it.

For example, you think they need better care sheets or better care info on their website, let them know it, not by telling them this is wrong alone, but by providing the information so many of us have.

I do believe they took my seriously because these are professionals and they have better things to do with their time than call me and continue to foster a relationship with myself or others. Does that mean they will make all the changes we'd like to see, not necessarily, but they are receptive to hearing feedback, as any good company who is consumer-oriented NOT product-oriented should be. If they weren't prepared to at least consider making changes, they would not have even replied back to me. They didn't have to do this at all.

My personal opinion is Petco is going to sell tarantulas (for now at least) whether you provide input or not. If only 10-20% of the suggestions are taken, that is better than none.

Reactions: Like 23 | Agree 3 | Informative 2 | Helpful 4 | Award 5 | Lollipop 1 | Winner 1


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## Chris LXXIX (Apr 30, 2016)

Top Notch, man. I completely agree with what you did (and this from a non US, not Petco & Co. such here in Italy, point of view).

What you did is a very important stand for everyone, in the US _Theraphosidae _keepers. 

As you said, only time will tell, but someone warned them, and that's something important.

Now i can't think about a $80 cigar that not even Fidel Castro, 4K devices, fast as light Internet, class leather office chairs, a plant in a corner, and a blonde secretary named "Inge" with sexy glasses and Nicole Kidman hair style

Reactions: Like 4 | Funny 1


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## Philth (Apr 30, 2016)

Their large well known "breeder" is Vista pet , which is a division of LLL Reptile. 

Later, Tom

Reactions: Like 2 | Informative 10


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## BorisTheSpider (Apr 30, 2016)

I think that they may listen to an extent for the simple reason that we as tarantula keepers are they very customers that they are aiming for . They need us to come in a buy stuff . The input that they have been getting is from clinical experts and they want to know what the casual pet keeper thinks . It's good for business .

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Thistles (Apr 30, 2016)

Good job. I've worked for big box pet stores for... longer than I care to admit. I know how things work as far as acceptable pet loss and risk and signing paperwork releasing the corporation from liability should you get sick or injured as a result of a live pet purchase. They aren't going to discontinue selling something in such a fast-growing segment of the market. As I said in my post in the other thread, the best we can hope for is that they do it as responsibly as possible for both the animals and the hobby. They've been selling tarantulas, including OW species, for years. The only change I see here is that they're slings in premade crappy containers.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Lander9021 (Apr 30, 2016)

Hopefully that will all happen but thinking about it...in reality some big board of directors has told his customer service team to get in touch with tom, dick and harry from a forum that has no effect on sales, marketing or any other aspect of their business to keep a few hobbyists sweet.

I can't see it.


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## Thistles (Apr 30, 2016)

Lander9021 said:


> Hopefully that will all happen but thinking about it...in reality some big board of directors has told his customer service team to get in touch with tom, dick and harry from a forum that has no effect on sales, marketing or any other aspect of their business to keep a few hobbyists sweet.
> 
> I can't see it.


I'm afraid you're right. That's been my experience with both Petco and PetSmart in the past. Smile and nod and send a gift card while things continue as usual.

Reactions: Love 1


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## BorisTheSpider (Apr 30, 2016)

Thistles said:


> Smile and nod and send a gift card while things continue as usual.


Wait , you got A gift card ? All I got was the smile and nod .  Crappy Petco .


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## Sana (Apr 30, 2016)

If no one ever tries to bring about a change in a positive and well thought out manner then there won't be a change.  Whether they are listening at this moment or patting folks on the head we should all keep trying.  Maybe today isn't better but it won't ever be without effort.

Reactions: Agree 4


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## Haksilence (Apr 30, 2016)

I don't really see this as much of an issue if they heed the hobby's advice moving forward. 

Let's be real, this is not a hobby that is easy to get into and is not very approachable to the complete novice. 
If a big chain pet store can properly care for, and provide a variety of species to new hobbiests I'm all for it. 
I don't think they should be carrying any pokies, and definitely not obts, their bright colors are sure to attract people and that's a disaster waiting to happen. Some mom goes in to buy her 10 year old a tarantula, picks the bright orange one, the kid wants to play with it, and why not? It's leggs are in the air waving at him waiting to be picked up. Kid gets bit, and at 10 I'm sure a P. Murinus bite is enough to cause some very serious problems, maybe even cardiac or respiratory failure. 

If chain pet stores can provide passable care for their arachnids I'm all for making the hobby more approachable/accessible. But not at the risk of losing the hobby. 

I don't see any problem with them offering a few species of:
Brachypelma
Aphonopelma
Grammostola
Lasyodora
Ectect

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Thistles (Apr 30, 2016)

BorisTheSpider said:


> Wait , you got A gift card ? All I got was the smile and nod .  Crappy Petco .


Haha no, I've been a manager at big box pet stores. I've had to give them out.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Informative 1 | Funny 1


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## Toxoderidae (Apr 30, 2016)

Well I'm supposed to get my conference call any day now. I'll also address these concerns, but by the sounds of it they may be listening. *To an extent.*

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2


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## Haksilence (Apr 30, 2016)

I just hope with their increased interest and energy into these animals a comparable increase in attention to care and husbandry will also be observed

Reactions: Agree 5


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## Abyss (Apr 30, 2016)

I would love the opportunity to speak to them as well and offer whatever i can to help them "do things safe/correct".

Anything i can do to help grow/protect the hobby i am in 100%


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## metaldad904 (Apr 30, 2016)

Good job trying to make a difference bud. I truly hope it helps but I have my concerns. Next Petco I'm near I'm going to swing by and see if anything has been made available and test their associates education. We shall see.

Reactions: Like 1


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## PanzoN88 (Apr 30, 2016)

As others have said that was a very good move on your part, and the fact that they may actually listen is very surprising. While they may not and likely will not stop the sale of tarantulas, it would be nice to see better conditions for the tarantulas they aquire. The more voices from the forum that are heard the better. I may enter the ring myself. After multiple calls and emails, the chance of them listening greatly increases. Imagine it, a petco with healthy (hopefully new world) tarantulas. If they refuse to stop selling OW tarantulas, a disclaimer would definitely improve the chances of some unknowing buyers avoiding what they can't handle.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Abyss (Apr 30, 2016)

I googeld their # but it was nothing more then a recording.....
Whats best way to contact them reguarding this?


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## BobBarley (Apr 30, 2016)

Abyss said:


> I googeld their # but it was nothing more then a recording.....
> Whats best way to contact them reguarding this?


http://arachnoboards.com/threads/pe...f-tarantulas-thoughts-and-rants.282714/page-5
post #85 and #88


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## Abyss (Apr 30, 2016)

BobBarley said:


> http://arachnoboards.com/threads/pe...f-tarantulas-thoughts-and-rants.282714/page-5
> post #85 and #88


Thanks i must have missed that lol

Reactions: Like 1


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## Walter1 (Apr 30, 2016)

viper69 said:


> Hello All,
> 
> I had my conference call with three of Petco's employees yesterday. We spoke for about 35 mins.
> 
> ...


Thank you for making the call and sharing it.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## viper69 (Apr 30, 2016)

Lander9021 said:


> Hopefully that will all happen but thinking about it...in reality some big board of directors has told his customer service team to get in touch with tom, dick and harry from a forum that has no effect on sales, marketing or any other aspect of their business to keep a few hobbyists sweet.
> 
> I can't see it.


First off, members of the board don't call down to CSR team or manager, employees handle that. That's not their responsibility. 

In the age of social media and a 24 news/media cycle the right story/post can capture attention rather quickly.

Since when don't consumers have a direct effect upon marketing, and most importantly sales?


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## viper69 (Apr 30, 2016)

Walter1 said:


> Thank you for making the call and sharing it.


You're welcome Walter.

Reactions: Like 2


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## viper69 (Apr 30, 2016)

Philth said:


> Their large well known "breeder" is Vista pet , which is a division of LLL Reptile.
> 
> Later, Tom


I was pretty sure it was LLL. It's the only outfit I can think of that would have the means to do so on a captive bred basis over the long term.


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## Tim Benzedrine (Apr 30, 2016)

BorisTheSpider said:


> Wait , you got A gift card ? All I got was the smile and nod .  Crappy Petco .



Really? I got a date with a blonde secretary named "Inge" with sexy glasses and Nicole Kidman hair style.

Reactions: Funny 2 | Lollipop 1


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## viper69 (Apr 30, 2016)

Tim Benzedrine said:


> Really? I got a date with a blonde secretary named "Inge" with sexy glasses and Nicole Kidman hair style.


Please don't hijack this thread into your personal comedy postings as usual.


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## Tim Benzedrine (Apr 30, 2016)

<Points> Boris started it! 

But I'll shaddup, it was just a one-liner, not sure I'd call it a hijack. I'll just leave y'all to fighting the man.

Reactions: Like 3


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## lunarae (Apr 30, 2016)

That's awesome Viper, and I totally agree that effort should be given. People will not listen if all you do is complain about an issue and provide no info on how to fix what your complaining about. Helping to educate and share concerns is the only way to do it. It's unfortunate that the angle of the critters well being will never be the focus. But coming at them from the business perspective is the best and only way to go to ensure that they actually listen. The fact that they are willing to get feed back is great. It's a smart move for them as a business, but it's a good sign for the hobby as well. While I'm still new I'd be willing to share any and all I've learned so far as well on the subject.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (May 1, 2016)

Hey viper69, I would ask one the moderators to merge the two threads together. I hate to see the first thread to be forgotten or even this one so I urge you to be in touch with one of the moderators not to keep this seperately. Important information are on both threads.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Lander9021 (May 1, 2016)

viper69 said:


> First off, members of the board don't call down to CSR team or manager, employees handle that. That's not their responsibility.
> 
> In the age of social media and a 24 news/media cycle the right story/post can capture attention rather quickly.
> 
> Since when don't consumers have a direct effect upon marketing, and most importantly sales?


Do you buy your ts from Petco?

Didn't think so.
 Therefore not a customer whitch goes back to my previous post about company's and complaints yadda yadda


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## Walter1 (May 1, 2016)

No company wants lawsuits. No one in a company wants to be responsible for being the legitimate target of one. In my opinion, it will be that concern that can pre-emptively modify the sort of stock they keep. The approach of that conference call was a good one.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Toxoderidae (May 1, 2016)

Lander9021 said:


> Do you buy your ts from Petco?
> 
> Didn't think so.
> Therefore not a customer whitch goes back to my previous post about company's and complaints yadda yadda


Lander, you don't seem to understand how things work in the US. in the UK it might be very different, and from your view it is, but companies don't work like you seem to think they do.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Haksilence (May 1, 2016)

After they hear the information and get time to think about it I'm sure they will revise their plan. Petco doesn't carry highly venomous reptiles, so why would they risk it with highly venomous, notoriously I'll tempered species of therophosidae. It's just not logical, sounds more like LLL just whispering in their ear "yeah these old worlds are great! Look at the colors, look it wants a hug! These will definitely sell" and of course Petco hears the last 4 words.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Vanessa (May 1, 2016)

People complain about PETA being involved in investigating these stores, but it isn't like Petco hasn't given them plenty of reason to warrant their attention.
These big box stores all follow the exact same business model - every last one of them.  And that model is detrimental to the animals and the people.
They offer minimum wage, if that, with no possibility of getting enough hours for employees to get any benefits.  As a result, they end up hiring very young people or older people who have two other part time jobs to make ends meet and none of those people have any loyalty or interest in doing well at their job. Employees are disinterested at best and sadistic at worst. Employee turnaround is the highest in any portion of the economy.  There is no training being done for animals - the only training that anyone receives is in the best interest of the corporation and the handful of executives making huge wages.
Yes, I am speaking in generalizations, and I do understand that there are exceptions, but those are very few and far between. The vast majority of their employees don't care and they never will because the corporation doesn't give them any reason to care. They know that for every one employee who can't take it anymore and quits - there are ten more lined up to take their place.  Everyone is dispensable.  And that becomes even more vile when animals are involved.
Places like Petco are the scourge of the earth - offering cheap, poorly made products from third world countries where there are no labour laws, that people don't really need but purchase anyway, at the expense of both the people and the animals. 
They are only playing lip service to anyone who voices a concern to them because the business model that they follow has proven, time and again, to be very successful for them. They have insurance, public relations firms, and lawyers on the payroll who will successfully protect their interests regardless of how serious the lawsuit might be. The only route that anyone has to change this is to shop somewhere else.  Even if you don't succeed in stopping these scenarios from taking place - at least you can feel good about not contributing to them.

Reactions: Like 2 | Dislike 2


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## Haksilence (May 1, 2016)

VanessaS said:


> People complain about PETA being involved in investigating these stores, but it isn't like Petco hasn't given them plenty of reason to warrant their attention.
> These big box stores all follow the exact same business model - every last one of them.  And that model is detrimental to the animals and the people.
> They offer minimum wage, if that, with no possibility of getting enough hours for employees to get any benefits.  As a result, they end up hiring very young people or older people who have two other part time jobs to make ends meet and none of those people have any loyalty or interest in doing well at their job. Employees are disinterested at best and sadistic at worst. Employee turnaround is the highest in any portion of the economy.  There is no training being done for animals - the only training that anyone receives is in the best interest of the corporation and the handful of executives making huge wages.
> Yes, I am speaking in generalizations, and I do understand that there are exceptions, but those are very few and far between. The vast majority of their employees don't care and they never will because the corporation doesn't give them any reason to care. They know that for every one employee who can't take it anymore and quits - there are ten more lined up to take their place.  Everyone is dispensable.  And that becomes even more vile when animals are involved.
> ...


And here is that "corporate America" rant we've been waiting for.
The exact one that was specifically not asked for.

Reactions: Agree 4


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## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (May 1, 2016)

I don't understand you guys. There has been many times to some of you want to stick with original threads now we're going back and forth from one thread to another. It's flipping annoying. Thanks a lot mi amigo! viper69.


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## Haksilence (May 1, 2016)

I now deem this primary thread, no more flippity flop.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Vanessa (May 1, 2016)

Haksilence said:


> And here is that "corporate America" rant we've been waiting for.
> The exact one that was specifically not asked for.


Coming from a Canadian, no less. You want to continue to bury your head in the sand - then all the power to you. But it isn't helping anyone and you're only kidding yourself if you think that your meager attempts are getting through to anyone interested in listening.
There is a good reason why these big box stores don't do well in Canada, and those who do stay do not realize the profits that they do south of the border, and I couldn't be happier.

Reactions: Informative 1 | Lollipop 1


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## viper69 (May 1, 2016)

Lander9021 said:


> Do you buy your ts from Petco?
> 
> Didn't think so.
> Therefore not a customer whitch goes back to my previous post about company's and complaints yadda yadda


Exactly, you didn't think, you assumed. In the past I have bought exotics, Ts included, from big box stores.

Lander's you are the only Negative Nancy in this thread. How do you think change EVER happens? You have A LOT to learn about life, society and how change happens.

Why do you think there are seat belts in cars, at least in the USA? It's not because the car companies thought it was a smart idea. It's because one person decided cars should be safer, and 1 person took the big 3 automakers here in the USA, and succeeded.

With your attitude,it seems you would leave it up to companies to change on their own. That's a poor perspective.

From a business standpoint it's also a flawed model. Everyone knows that companies that are consumer-oriented succeed, and companies that become or are product-oriented ultimately fail. If you don't understand the difference, look it up and we can talk some more if you like.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## viper69 (May 1, 2016)

VanessaS said:


> People complain about PETA being involved in investigating these stores, but it isn't like Petco hasn't given them plenty of reason to warrant their attention.
> These big box stores all follow the exact same business model - every last one of them.  And that model is detrimental to the animals and the people.
> They offer minimum wage, if that, with no possibility of getting enough hours for employees to get any benefits.  As a result, they end up hiring very young people or older people who have two other part time jobs to make ends meet and none of those people have any loyalty or interest in doing well at their job. Employees are disinterested at best and sadistic at worst. Employee turnaround is the highest in any portion of the economy.  There is no training being done for animals - the only training that anyone receives is in the best interest of the corporation and the handful of executives making huge wages.
> Yes, I am speaking in generalizations, and I do understand that there are exceptions, but those are very few and far between. The vast majority of their employees don't care and they never will because the corporation doesn't give them any reason to care. They know that for every one employee who can't take it anymore and quits - there are ten more lined up to take their place.  Everyone is dispensable.  And that becomes even more vile when animals are involved.
> ...



I really didn't put this thread up here for people to bash corp America with rants. That was done in the other thread, please keep it there or post your own thread. I'd be happy to discuss what you wrote in another thread, not here.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2


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## Chris LXXIX (May 1, 2016)

I stand with Viper69 and what he did (without entering into my personal society/politics views... i liked and i agree with VanessaS post, even if i have reasons to believe that we have, lol, few in common in that sense) for the US hobby.

Just like what happened here in Italy after 2003. Hell, seriously, i couldn't think about a better *WIN *for an Arachnid community. Not against a chain or such, but against a state, a nation, and politicians.

The battle was long, yet they were forced to make a step behind, and now there's authorized fairs -- just like Marbach, uh... just more little  where you can buy everything (if requested prior or available, of course) save for, and really, "Hot" ones. But that's fair enough, no? While in some Germany Lander, the "heaven" of T's, discussions about the Ban of (genus) _Poecilotheria _happened.

People less than King Leonida "300" Spartans, involving animals that doesn't exactly moves cash, now, succeeded... well, that's a nice one i say, and a thing able to give strenght to others (more in numbers, lol, like you guys in the US are) for win.

No one will protect _Theraphosidae _save for us, i guarantee you that.

Follow Viper69 i say.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2


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## viper69 (May 2, 2016)

Exoskeleton Invertebrates said:


> I don't understand you guys. There has been many times to some of you want to stick with original threads now we're going back and forth from one thread to another. It's flipping annoying. Thanks a lot mi amigo! viper69.


Hola mi amigo,

I purposely kept my information out of the other thread because I was tired of reading nothing but rants about corporations. I did not want the information I had learned "surrounded" by the muddied waters of such diatribe, justified or not. I have long been here and read enough rants to know how those threads turn out.


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## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (May 2, 2016)

viper69 said:


> Hola mi amigo,
> 
> I purposely kept my information out of the other thread because I was tired of reading nothing but rants about corporations. I did not want the information I had learned "surrounded" by the muddied waters of such diatribe, justified or not. I have long been here and read enough rants to know how those threads turn out.


 But the problem is as you know there's still going to be rants on this thread too. Not only that but also is a little frustrating going from one thread to another when the other thread had good info. Sometimes you just got to ignore some of the bs that gets posted by other members.


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## gypsy cola (May 2, 2016)

@viper69 I really appreciate your phone call with corporate. Glad to hear that Petco was willing to hear you out and thank you for taking this step for the hobby.

I visited a couple of Petco shop this weekend. The one in particular that stood in my mind is the location in Midvale UT. Other than the employee who showed me where the T's are made her own remarks about "These things need to be stomped". The manager was willing to listen.

When I mentioned that some of the spiders can lead to someone get seriously hurt... He mentioned that he is going to bring it up during a meeting with corporate.

My fiancé and I were incredibly mad when we saw these T's for 3 reasons. Staff members who treat the animals with disgust and have no qualms with any animals they find disgusting to be abused or killed. The sponges... The slings are kept on sponges. I can understand from a view point of "displaying product" but, a inch of vermiculate will be better for the long run. Some T's most likely will be sitting at Petco for quite some time. Finally, OW's being available. Whenever my fiancé and I bring up tarantulas, there is a surprising amount of people who believe pet stores won't sell anything that isn't defang or "trained". There is someone that is going to make that mistake.

I hope we get a new wave of enthusiasts but, there is going to a be aaaaaaaaaaaaa lot of misinformation that we will need to clear up. Not a lot of people are going to understand that most species will out live Mr. buttons and Fido.

I think the next best route is for us in the hobby to a prep some very well rounded and detailed care sheets of the listed species for sale. There are going to be a lot of people doing google searches. We all acknowledge that general care sheets are lacking and most of us experienced keepers can simply just wing what the care is required for most species. We basically need to make care sheets look like those illustrated bibles they make for kids. Storm76 has made some INCREDIBLE posts about Ts. One of his posts made me visit a LPS to just pick a P.irmina sling.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## viper69 (May 2, 2016)

Exoskeleton Invertebrates said:


> Sometimes you just got to ignore some of the bs that gets posted by other members.


Agreed, this wasn't one of those times for me. This thread has remained relatively clean compared to the other one.

On the internet misery loves company, and that thread has a lot of misery.


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## advan (May 2, 2016)

Philth said:


> Their large well known "breeder" is Vista pet , which is a division of LLL Reptile.
> 
> Later, Tom






Toxoderidae said:


> Well I'm supposed to get my conference call any day now. I'll also address these concerns, but by the sounds of it they may be listening. *To an extent.*


Well, I hope you compose yourself better on that call than you do here on the boards.  Remember, when you do things like this, you are talking _in a way_ for the hobby's behalf. Be professional and not emotional. Good luck.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 4


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## Toxoderidae (May 2, 2016)

advan said:


> Well, I hope you compose yourself better on that call than you do here on the boards.  Remember, when you do things like this, you are talking _in a way_ for the hobby's behalf. Be professional and not emotional. Good luck.


Well I don't think I'll ever get my call, it's been 3 days since they said they would, and there's been nothing. A shame, but my hope and thought is that viper changed them enough to where they didn't feel a need to.


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## BorisTheSpider (May 2, 2016)

After a trip to my local Petco this morning they told me that if they even decide to carry Ts , which more than likely they won't , they would be sold only to adults . They were very nice and even offered to get the area supervisor on the phone if I wanted . I don't know they thought I was there to complain about the idea of them selling Ts but they were at least resceptive to the idea of discussing the topic . I have to admit I'm suprised. Maybe they will handle this T situation the right way .

Reactions: Like 1


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## viper69 (May 2, 2016)

I have been in touch with Petco Corp today, I have some very exciting news. Will post when I have time later today or early tomorrow.

They are definitely reading our threads, esp the Petco threads., this was communicated to me.

As @advan smartly wrote, it's up to each to remember we represent the hobby. You can reply to Petco as a sensible human being, or as a crazed lunatic. We've seen both responses on here.

These are professionals remember that in your responses when you/if you speak with them.

Reactions: Like 1 | Love 1


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## pnshmntMMA (May 2, 2016)

Thank you for your effort to defending this hobby. I think I speak for everyone on this site when I say that. Great work!

Reactions: Agree 3


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## viper69 (May 2, 2016)

BorisTheSpider said:


> After a trip to my local Petco this morning they told me that if they even decide to carry Ts , which more than likely they won't , they would be sold only to adults . They were very nice and even offered to get the area supervisor on the phone if I wanted . I don't know they thought I was there to complain about the idea of them selling Ts but they were at least resceptive to the idea of discussing the topic . I have to admit I'm suprised. Maybe they will handle this T situation the right way .



I encountered this as well in my local area. Ultimately that type of behavior will vary, it's a good start. I hope it remains this way. Ts are great animals, but they aren't goldfish. I think Petco recognizes this to some degree.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## BorisTheSpider (May 2, 2016)

The manager did say that the store does have a hobbyist on their staff , although I personally did get to meet him/her . I am assuming that this employee might of had some input in the decision . We only have one Petco here in town and they have only been open for about a month so we will see how it goes . I must say that I do like the idea of our hobby becoming a little more mainstream as long as it's done the right way . It's true that Ts aren't goldfish and I hope that they are never treated that way . How many of those poor little guys died because pet stores use to tell people that they could be kept in tiny little bowls .


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## cold blood (May 2, 2016)

viper69 said:


> I have been in touch with Petco Corp today, I have some very exciting news. Will post when I have time later today or early tomorrow.
> 
> They are definitely reading our threads, esp the Petco threads., this was communicated to me.
> 
> ...


Thanks Chris, I look forward to your update.

So far it *appears* Petco is listening...I hope the in-store care and the out going care sheets given are addressed and taken seriously, because if that doesn't change for the better, it really doesn't matter much IMO.    Too many in the past have been frustrated by employees telling them "that's how corporate demands they are kept, even if we know better, we aren't allowed to change a thing".  Upgrading that information to employees *and* buyers is critical as many new buyers will not realize boards like this exist and will take the stores info as "gold" (as we see and correct almost daily)....if its actually a pile of dung and not quality info, it helps no one, from the stores to the buyers. 

So far, props to Petco for listening to true hobbyists and I hope you are right and they are reading these threads with an open mind and positive attitude....getting us on their side, or at least not on the opposite sides, is critical for their long term success *and* reputation with their animals.

If need be, I would be more than happy to offer care assistance information....*if* they are willing to use it.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 3


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## Thistles (May 2, 2016)

Having a hobbyist as an employee is no guarantee that the animals will be cared for appropriately. As CB says, corporate often sets the standards, and those standards are often ridiculous. PetSmart requires sponges in water dishes, for example, and there's nothing an associate can do about it without getting in trouble the next time the district manager comes around. I suppose it would help with appropriate treatment of the animal, instead of some of the mishandling I've seen at Petco, though.

Again, the best we can hope for is that the P&Ps are modified to better suit the needs of the animals and the staff is appropriately trained.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## viper69 (May 2, 2016)

Hello All,

I can update you with the exciting news I heard from Petco corporate today. In short, they will not be offering OW Ts, they have reconsidered in light of my phone call, and perhaps from reading the thread.  Below is a portion of the email.

CB: I will be inquiring about the care sheets. They told me they would welcome any help previously. I agree if not used at all, it's not worth anyone's time. I'd be surprised if they were not interested.

@Lander9021 I know you didn't believe it was possible, that one person can't make a difference, that Petco was paying lip service to a "few hobbyists" as you put it previously. You are mistaken again.

"I’ve been checking out the thread and appreciate you updating the group about our conversation.  We will definitely not be moving forward with any Old World spiders.  The containers will still have them listed for the time being, but we won’t be receiving any. We need to get the labels re-printed once we’ve identified other NW species that we can include in the mix.  If you, or the other members of your group have any suggestions we’re definitely open to them.  Even if they are species that aren’t available in large numbers now, we may be able to work with our supplier to setup breeding projects to increase supply so we can make them available.   I’ve also spoken to our supplier about the sizing of the individuals we’ve been receiving.  They agreed to a minimum of nickel sized spiderlings going forward.  Thanks again for your input!"

Reactions: Like 4 | Love 4 | Award 3 | Winner 1


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## Toxoderidae (May 2, 2016)

viper69 said:


> Hello All,
> 
> I can update you with the exciting news I heard from Petco corporate today. In short, they will not be offering OW Ts, they have reconsidered in light of my phone call, and perhaps from reading the thread.  Below is a portion of the email.
> 
> ...


This is wonderful! I'm glad you an Jose were able to make a difference, as the rep I got barely knew how to work e-mail..

Reactions: Funny 1


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## cold blood (May 2, 2016)

I can't recall the species list, but there is a host of Eauthlus species that would be better choices....vagans or any Brachy really as well, I just threw vagans (and albo, really) out there because they are easily bred, abundant and as a result very inexpensive....and of course the common denominator among all these species is that they are all excellent "beginner" species.

The care sheets are important though, especially from Petco's point of view...see, if care is followed to the letter and people's slings keep dying, people aren't going to blame the care sheets (as they will trust them), what they will believe, and the rep it could easily lead to is...Petco isn't selling healthy animals as they keep dying prematurely...while that may not be the case, its the conclusion people will reach as they won't have a clue its because the care suggested was totally inaccurate.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## viper69 (May 2, 2016)

@cold blood Actually one of the species they are considering is a Brachy, I learned this in my initial phone conversation. Of course I told them, "Yes" on that.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Tfisher (May 2, 2016)

Happy I made a call. I dont think it was corp. but at least the branch manager took my notes down. Great job everyone who decided to call/email. It seems to have done the trick.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Crone Returns (May 2, 2016)

viper69 said:


> Hello All,
> 
> I can update you with the exciting news I heard from Petco corporate today. In short, they will not be offering OW Ts, they have reconsidered in light of my phone call, and perhaps from reading the thread.  Below is a portion of the email.
> 
> ...


I am amazed.


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## Munax (May 2, 2016)

What other NW were discussed. I don't want to seem like a jerk and you're free to respectfully disagree, but I don't really like the idea of making the really rare and expensive species like G pulchras, X immanis, and H. Pulchripes for sale in such large quantities. I think it's unfair for people who have waited and spent $$ for these special species, and I think these rarities should stay rarities. 

That's just my 2 cents.


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## cold blood (May 2, 2016)

I would think those species would be cost prohibitive....I highly doubt they want the most expensive thing in the store to be a little tarantula on the shelf next to the crickets.

I also think (and this may already be the case, I don't know) that these should be behind glass, available with employee help, not just sitting on the shelf for any kid (or adult) to tip around, shake or drop...being as fragile as they are, an employee should always be involved in the customer actually handling the package.   I can just see an unattended child picking them up one after the other shaking the boxed to see them move.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 6


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## Lander9021 (May 2, 2016)

viper69 said:


> Hello All,
> 
> I can update you with the exciting news I heard from Petco corporate today. In short, they will not be offering OW Ts, they have reconsidered in light of my phone call, and perhaps from reading the thread.  Below is a portion of the email.
> 
> ...


The only other option is, you made it all up...I mean you've given no hard evidence of your call or emails.

Reactions: Dislike 6 | Disagree 2


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## cold blood (May 2, 2016)



Reactions: Funny 1


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## Tim Benzedrine (May 2, 2016)

I think "nickle sized" is a good starting point. For several reasons. A) less fragile as they are more established. B) they have the look of somethung different. let's face it, most of us have proudly shown off small slings to people who have walked away thinnking -if not outright saying - "I've seen spiders like that in my basement!"
C) The purchase still gets to see the advancement of a tarantula growing with lesser risk of disappointment (See point "A").

Would it throw things too far off track if we offered our ideas for species suitable for people who may be inclined to take this road into keeping the spiders?

Would we discourage such species as L. parahybana and A. geniculata as they can be a bit skittish, and rather prone to flinging very itch hairs, for example, but on the other hand are pretty easy to successfully keep? I guess the notion comes pretty close to suggesting species for newbies threads, but possibly much more far-reaching.

I also kind of think that the stores should be made aware of the existence of "The Tarantula keeper's Guide" Yes, I know, it has become a bit dated and Stan is working on that, but for the time being it isn't a bad resource and certainly more comprehensive than any books I am aware of, at least in English. A store copy at the very least would probably not be a bad idea, and I would imagine they might sell some. In fact, properly displayed near the tarantulas, might be a lock in regard to book sales.

If anybody has wondered "Gee, what impact, if any, will this have on established breeders and sellers?" I think not much. People going to Petco and their ilk are not really the mainstay of the vendors. That would be us. Not that we might not grab a species if they are suitably cared for, etc. but speaking for myself, I'd still be prone to patronize the already established business-people who are also fans of what they offer.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 4


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## Toxoderidae (May 2, 2016)

Lander9021 said:


> The only other option is, you made it all up...I mean you've given no hard evidence of your call or emails.


What's your deal bro? I liked you, but now you're being more pessimistic than Roger Waters. You're actually being really annoying, and honestly abrasive.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## sdsnybny (May 2, 2016)

cold blood said:


>





Toxoderidae said:


> What's your deal bro? I liked you, but now you're being more pessimistic than Roger Waters. You're actually being really annoying, and honestly abrasive.


" Just dont' ever feed them after dark"

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Lander9021 (May 2, 2016)

Toxoderidae said:


> What's your deal bro? I liked you, but now you're being more pessimistic than Roger Waters. You're actually being really annoying, and honestly abrasive.


Possible though.


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## Tim Benzedrine (May 2, 2016)

Well, it isn't as if he is some kid seeking attention, so I kind of doubt it.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


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## Trenor (May 2, 2016)

cold blood said:


> I would think those species would be cost prohibitive....I highly doubt they want the most expensive thing in the store to be a little tarantula on the shelf next to the crickets.
> 
> I also think (and this may already be the case, I don't know) that these should be behind glass, available with employee help, not just sitting on the shelf for any kid (or adult) to tip around, shake or drop...being as fragile as they are, an employee should always be involved in the customer actually handling the package.   I can just see an unattended child picking them up one after the other shaking the boxed to see them move.


At Petsmart (we don't have PetCo here) the one Avic I have seen them with was in a enclosure inside another enclosure like they would house a reptile in. So lets hope PetCo does as well.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Lander9021 (May 2, 2016)

Tim Benzedrine said:


> Well, it isn't as if he is some kid seeking attention, so I kind of doubt it.


How do you know? He or she could be a spotty greasy 15 yr old lad who has a social networking addiction, with five PC screens, Intel core 999000  processer with 1000 terrorbyte hard drive And not to mention the loads of RAM.

I just thought it sounded a bit weird really, corporate business actually listened to complete stranger who basically complained, they then acted on this with a massive loss in estimated profits.
 I just can't get my head around it.

Reactions: Disagree 3


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## Thistles (May 2, 2016)

Trenor said:


> At Petsmart (we don't have PetCo here) the one Avic I have seen them with was in a enclosure inside another enclosure like they would house a reptile in. So lets hope PetCo does as well.


That's how it appeared in a pic another member posted. I think they'll be locked up.

I'd be all for LPs and genics and GBBs... I don't think all of their offerings need to be the most basic beginner species. Variety and hardiness are paramount in my opinion, now that OWs are off the table.

Great job, and thanks for listening, Petco!

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Walter1 (May 2, 2016)

Trenor said:


> At Petsmart (we don't have PetCo here) the one Avic I have seen them with was in a enclosure inside another enclosure like they would house a reptile in. So lets hope PetCo does as well.


Same here in PA.


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## Toxoderidae (May 2, 2016)

Lander9021 said:


> How do you know? He or she could be a spotty greasy 15 yr old lad who has a social networking addiction, with five PC screens, Intel core 999000  processer with 1000 terrorbyte hard drive And not to mention the loads of RAM.
> 
> I just thought it sounded a bit weird really, corporate business actually listened to complete stranger who basically complained, they then acted on this with a massive loss in estimated profits.
> I just can't get my head around it.


Just get out dude. You obviously have no idea how America works, a country built on change. You seem to be so apathetic and honestly depressing, you seem to have no regard as to looking at facts, images I and others have posted, and just how risky this would be for PetCo. You sound like my dad, who said "They're a big corporation, I'm sure someone thought this through, they aren't going to listen to some kid with pet spiders"

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Tim Benzedrine (May 2, 2016)

Lander9021 said:


> How do you know? He or she could be a spotty greasy 15 yr old lad who has a social networking addiction, with five PC screens, Intel core 999000  processer with 1000 terrorbyte hard drive And not to mention the loads of RAM.
> 
> I just thought it sounded a bit weird really, corporate business actually listened to complete stranger who basically complained, they then acted on this with a massive loss in estimated profits.
> I just can't get my head around it.


Well, for starters, subtlety is kind of lost on you, isn't it? 

But more to the point, going by that rather ridiculous propossition, Viper has been around long enough that if he were a troll, he'd have tipped his hand by now. Trolls are quickly recognized unless they are REALLY good at it, and even then they eventually show their true colours. Therefore the idea that he is trolling can be eliminated. Secondly, he displays enough knowledge to indicate that he is in fact in earnest and does not need to validate himself with fabrications.

Maybe Petco, isn't looking at the short-term profit margin in this case, but instead thinking that valid points are being made. They could make more money selling manageable, hardy species over the long haul than moving spiders that at the very least could prove to be a disappointment, eliminating future purchase. Which mindset do you think shows the most possibility for profit, "Gah, that sure was a waste of money, I'll never buy another one of those things again! I'll tell my friends to steer away from the mistake I made!"" Or, "This thing is so cool, and a snap to take care of, I need another one!"?

Of course Viper loses a point for being so sharp with the poor possum in this thread. 



			
				Thistles said:
			
		

> I'd be all for LPs and genics and GBBs... I don't think all of their offerings need to be the most basic beginner species. Variety and hardiness are paramount in my opinion, now that OWs are off the table.


Oh, I'd agree with those species as well. And their growth rate is a plus. it might not be a bad idea for the potential buyer to be aware  that the growth rate of those species is proportional to their eventual size. in the unlikely event they may not want a bigger species.
Although the speed of GBBs could be a slight issue. I don't own one but am aware of their reputation as speedsters. I don't think that would be a deal-breaker, though. 

In a perfect world, the species being sold would be labeled wit their selling points along with other possible considerations. however, I'm not sure if that would be practical in a business sense, and i don't think we should expect TOO much and be satisfied with unsuitale species being kept out of the hands of those who should not initially have them.

Finally, I'm going to comment on the idea of suitable, but less obtainable species not being offered. This makes me a tad uncomfortable. I think ideally, NO species should be a commodity only available to those with deep pockets. Naturally, difficult to breed/obtain varieties should command a higher price as dictated by supply and demand, but I can't really think of a good reason for them not to be otherwise available. Rarity in the hobby does not make certain species a BETTER species to own, necessarily. these are not coins or sports cars. That probably isn't going to be the most popular viewpoint, but it's just my gut opinion, I'm not sure "But it would make <insert species here> less special!" is a valid point in this situation. It wouldn't make the value drop, unless they were able to find domebody who was able to produce those species in higher numbers, and if that were possible, it would happen anyway no matter who sells them. I think. Who am I, a financial wizard?

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 3


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## Bambu (May 2, 2016)

cold blood said:


> I also think (and this may already be the case, I don't know) that these should be behind glass, available with employee help, not just sitting on the shelf for any kid (or adult) to tip around, shake or drop...being as fragile as they are, an employee should always be involved in the customer actually handling the package.   I can just see an unattended child picking them up one after the other shaking the boxed to see them move.


When I saw the "tarantula huts" at a local Petco last week, they were all behind glass. Not sure if all stores will do the same, but I figure I'd mention it.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## sdsnybny (May 2, 2016)

Tim Benzedrine said:


> Well, for starters, subtlety is kind of lost on you, isn't it?


Like bricking a camel is subtle

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Andy00 (May 2, 2016)

Has anyone actually gone to a petco and seen their new T's? Just wanted to know if they've actually shipped them yet or if it's gonna be a while like a few months until they actually do this. And if so, are they just slings or adults?


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## Bambu (May 2, 2016)

Andy00 said:


> Has anyone actually gone to a petco and seen their new T's? Just wanted to know if they've actually shipped them yet or if it's gonna be a while like a few months until they actually do this. And if so, are they just slings or adults?


I saw some slings last time I went to Petco, in "Tarantula Huts" which are weird tallish plastic containers with a piece of foam on the bottom. I also saw someone link a facebook post in another thread that showed a juvenile or sub adult (not the best judge for size) A. avicularia in the same container, looked pretty cramped. Didn't bother checking species or asking since they were behind glass. I also recall seeing them selling a cobalt blue (the "not good for a beginner" species, I forget scientific name.) a while back, not in the "hut" at least.


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## viper69 (May 3, 2016)

Munax said:


> I think it's unfair for people who have waited and spent $$ for these special species


SO I may understand your perspective better, why is it unfair?
 No one forced anyone to spend a lot of money on a sling or T, right?

Is it fair that people are buying P. metallica for $80, when they used to be $400/sling?

I was one of the earliest to my knowledge to buy H. sp Columbia, Large. The price per sling has dropped 100% for that locality. I'm glad they are cheaper so other people with not as much resources as myself can afford them and enjoy them for the same reasons I do.

The same is pretty much true for anything considered rare/hard to obtain that then becomes easier to obtain, be it Ts, ball python morphs etc

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2


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## Toxoderidae (May 3, 2016)

viper69 said:


> SO I may understand your perspective better, why is it unfair?
> No one forced anyone to spend a lot of money on a sling or T, right?
> 
> Is it fair that people are buying P. metallica for $80, when they used to be $400/sling?
> ...


H. sp. columbia large is given out as a freebie now.. And ball python morphs are insane. I'm saving up to buy a female pied more to breed with my spider ball.. and females are 600 dollars for a 5 month old, and 2000 for an adult female.

Reactions: Like 1


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## viper69 (May 3, 2016)

Lander9021 said:


> The only other option is, you made it all up...I mean you've given no hard evidence of your call or emails.


So that's how you admit you are wrong, very interesting 

When you deal with professionals you don't post their emails, their names or their private, direct phone numbers. It's unethical and rude.

I'd explain the difference between complaining and constructive criticism, but I don't have the time.

You have a lot to learn about life and a lot of growing up to do, assuming either is ever achieved on your end. Unlike yourself, I don't assume, particularly in this case.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1


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## Draketeeth (May 3, 2016)

cold blood said:


> I also think (and this may already be the case, I don't know) that these should be behind glass, available with employee help, not just sitting on the shelf for any kid (or adult) to tip around, shake or drop...being as fragile as they are, an employee should always be involved in the customer actually handling the package.


In my PetCo they were in one of the standard display cases where tarantulas/reptiles are usually kept, and those cases are locked. I had to request employee assistance to see what species were available, as it is not readily listed on the front of the container.




Tim Benzedrine said:


> I think "nickle sized" is a good starting point. For several reasons. A) less fragile as they are more established. B) they have the look of something different. let's face it, most of us have proudly shown off small slings to people who have walked away thinking -if not outright saying - "I've seen spiders like that in my basement!"


Nickle sized would be good, I agree. Small enough to stop an impulse buy, big enough for the small feeder crickets, but no so small it can't be tended to with some effort by someone willing to try. 




Andy00 said:


> Has anyone actually gone to a petco and seen their new T's? Just wanted to know if they've actually shipped them yet or if it's gonna be a while like a few months until they actually do this. And if so, are they just slings or adults?


When I went to my local store, they had three of these new containers stocked: an _Aphonopelma hentzi_, an _Brachypelma albopilosum_ and a Pink Toe of some type (didn't look at it's container). The pink was probably a good 1.5-2" in size (smaller than I've seen there before when they were selling adults/sub-adults, but still a good sized spider). The _B. Albo_ was probably in the 1/3" range, a rather small sling. The _A. hentzi_ was _tiny_ and the employees really had no idea there was even a spider in the container until someone finally spotted the little 'un crunched up in a corner trying to hide. It's probably 1/6" maybe 1/4" if it tried really hard, and the employees really had no idea what to do with one so small. 

Tiny tarantulas seems to be a shock when people think "tarantula" and equate it with "large hair spider" automatically. Like, they start out as babies? Like all other animals? Blasphemy. 




Bambu said:


> I also recall seeing them selling a cobalt blue (the "not good for a beginner" species, I forget scientific name.) a while back, not in the "hut" at least.


This has been on their available list for some time. My store can get them too. Or could get them . . . not sure how their new huts are going to change that.

Reactions: Informative 1 | Funny 1


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## viper69 (May 3, 2016)

Toxoderidae said:


> H. sp. columbia large is given out as a freebie now.. And ball python morphs are insane. I'm saving up to buy a female pied more to breed with my spider ball.. and females are 600 dollars for a 5 month old, and 2000 for an adult female.


When I first saw Pieds, they weren't proven genetic yet. Once they were the costs were quite expensive for the average person, as the average person didn't have over $10k to spend, esp on a snake. It took a long time for them to drop below $1k for a single high white animal.

The price for balls stays relatively stable compared to boas because balls don't produce nearly as many young as boas do. Plus, the boa market was larger at the time, no one predicted that ball pythons were going to be the rock star of the constrictor world.


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## Thistles (May 3, 2016)

Toxoderidae said:


> H. sp. columbia large is given out as a freebie now.. And ball python morphs are insane. I'm saving up to buy a female pied more to breed with my spider ball.. and females are 600 dollars for a 5 month old, and 2000 for an adult female.


My very first issue of Reptiles magazine, which I got when I was 10, had a pied BP on the cover. They were an exciting new thing, and cost around $10,000. Be glad it's only $600! Seeing the price drop makes me feel so old!


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## Toxoderidae (May 3, 2016)

Thistles said:


> My very first issue of Reptiles magazine, which I got when I was 10, had a pied BP on the cover. They were an exciting new thing, and cost around $10,000. Be glad it's only $600! Seeing the price drop makes me feel so old!


Saw I a pied when I was real little, fell in love with it since. Females are still super rare, with breeding females still reaching the 5 to 7 thousand range. Males are significantly cheaper, as I guess females are super rare.


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## Tfisher (May 3, 2016)

Thistles said:


> My very first issue of Reptiles magazine, which I got when I was 10, had a pied BP on the cover. They were an exciting new thing, and cost around $10,000. Be glad it's only $600! Seeing the price drop makes me feel so old!


 I had a pied hatchling given to me when I was into pythons. Decided mice were expensive and bought a dubia colony then fell in love with T's. I'm probably a lifer when it comes to T's.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Lander9021 (May 3, 2016)

Toxoderidae said:


> Okay, if Viper lied, than I must be a crack dealer or the Pope. I can see Petco lying to get us to back off, but Viper cares too much to lie for no reason. He's no troll.


 I don't know anyone on here from Adam,  how do I know if someones telling the truth...you go off evidence.

There's been a statement (we will just call it that) that has promised something fairy big ...a big company has just said in so many words " sorry I'll take the loss of the thousands of ts I was gunna sell to just anyone, and I'll make sure people on ab is kept sweet." 

Weather it's USA UK Italy France or even north Korea ..Its down to the individual not place of origin, I find it hard to believe a business has accepted that loss.

That's not beeing a knob head or anything it's pointing out a reality.


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## Toxoderidae (May 3, 2016)

Look, I'm agreeing that Petco might have lied, but viper didn't. That's all.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Toxoderidae (May 3, 2016)

Hey guys, just got my call, and I'm actually pretty happy!
So I talked to the same guy Viper did, and he addressed that yes, they are removing OW from the list, and NO OW tarantulas have been sent out yet, and none will. They're actually listening, and care about the hobby. They're taking in new NW species for the list, like GBBs and spiders in the Brachypelma genus. All in all, I can attest to Viper's statement, and I'm much happier about this than previously. Here's hoping everyone.

Reactions: Like 3 | Funny 1


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## Chris LXXIX (May 3, 2016)

Lander9021 said:


> Weather it's USA UK *Italy *France or even north Korea ..Its down to the individual not place of origin, I find it hard to believe a business has accepted that loss.


Actually here in Italy things worked pretty well on that sense, and the Italian Arachnid-Community managed to earn a somewhat decent victory, and against Politicians (here the 'Boss' of the show).

As far as (sort of) 'Petco' and 'Petco's' "type of" animal chains is concerned, here that wasn't an issue to deal with, for that here no one of those (btw we had/have others Italian & EU brands, not the US ones) even dared to keep venomous, no matter which, animals. Not even crickets, actually.

Only private breeders/keepers and those last that, back then, had a little, comfortable, wise 'corner' spot, shops.


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## Methal (May 3, 2016)

viper69 said:


> Exactly, you didn't think, you assumed. In the past I have bought exotics, Ts included, from big box stores.
> 
> Lander's you are the only Negative Nancy in this thread. How do you think change EVER happens? You have A LOT to learn about life, society and how change happens.
> 
> ...


ease up there trigger! Its all going to be ok. 

but no, i'm afraid your mistaken on this point. Change in the US doesn't happen because of Citizens, it happens when someone dies, and someone get sued, and the government gets involved. 

If we all look down deep inside we all know how this is going to end. 

Some tool is going to buy spoiled rotten billy "the pretty orange Tarantula", which he'll try to pet, get bit, sue Petco, the stupid kid will have a senator for an uncle and lawyer for a brother and 4 months of "dangerous aggressive deadly Tarantula sold at Petco bites little child" headlines later, well all be required to have DWR Licensees to own, and transport across state lines will be hella expensive if legal at all.  

Mark my words our hobby is in hella deep water right now.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sarkhan42 (May 3, 2016)

Methal said:


> ease up there trigger! Its all going to be ok.
> 
> but no, i'm afraid your mistaken on this point. Change in the US doesn't happen because of Citizens, it happens when someone dies, and someone get sued, and the government gets involved.
> 
> ...


You did read that they won't be offering old worlds now that they were talked to, right? Not picking on you but we've made it past this issue thankfully, now it's just making sure they're cared for properly and people are educated.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Toxoderidae (May 3, 2016)

Methal said:


> ease up there trigger! Its all going to be ok.
> 
> but no, i'm afraid your mistaken on this point. Change in the US doesn't happen because of Citizens, it happens when someone dies, and someone get sued, and the government gets involved.
> 
> ...


No. Change happened. Read what I said, they're removing ALL OW TARANTULAS from the list and haven't even gotten any of them out, ensuring nobody will be able to purchase them at Petco.


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## viper69 (May 3, 2016)

Methal said:


> ease up there trigger! Its all going to be ok.
> 
> but no, i'm afraid your mistaken on this point. Change in the US doesn't happen because of Citizens, it happens when someone dies, and someone get sued, and the government gets involved.
> 
> ...


Actually Methal, change in America happens both by its citizens, but also in the manner you described, which is something I mentioned in my phone call with Petco Corporate. Our history is replete with examples of both of those avenues of change happening.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## AphonopelmaTX (May 3, 2016)

Admin Note

Lets get this thread back on track. Bickering back and forth will get this thread closed.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3 | Informative 1 | Helpful 1


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## Toxoderidae (May 3, 2016)

Tfisher said:


> I have a +7 Troll Slaying Long Sword.


I have the legendary mage's cloak of halgar! It gives +15 percent to spellcasting.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Lander9021 (May 3, 2016)

Tim Benzedrine said:


> The problem is (well one of them) is that while you might be able to offer hypothetical reasons that Petco is being less than honest, you can't really offer any good reason that Viper might not be telling the truth. That's the flaw in your dissertation. You have not said "Sheesh, this fellow has a reputation for lying on these forums, and the rest of you are buying it!" and provided any proof of his having fabricated anything in the past. There is something called "the burden of proof" and you so far have not carried an ounce of it, or even satisfactorily offered even a good reason for your doubt.
> My troll meter is starting to ping. And you certainly do not post like somebody who is very disciplined or even skilled at trolling. I'm more inclined to go with MY assumption that you are a kid, based on style and attitude and the earlier comment I mentioned. 11 years seems about in the ball-park.
> Okay, folks, you may commence with the "pot calling the kettle black" comments now, I knew what I was letting myself in for before I typed the previous sentence
> 
> ...


Then how could I prove...I have discharge papers..


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## Tfisher (May 3, 2016)

Lander9021 said:


> Then how could I prove...I have discharge papers..


I really dont want to see another thread pop up about this situation. Lets try and stay on track. Is there types of species you believe would be better to get the public involved with?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Lander9021 (May 3, 2016)

No petco should stay far away from ts, and leave it the folk that do know how to keep untill sold


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## Tfisher (May 3, 2016)

Lander9021 said:


> No petco should stay far away from ts, and leave it the folk that do know how to keep untill sold


How about typical rose hairs? From what I can tell over 75% of people have this as their first T. Although I kind of agree with your statment.


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## Sarkhan42 (May 3, 2016)

Tfisher said:


> How about typical rose hairs? From what I can tell over 75% of people have this as their first T.


The most glaring issue with this for me, is that petco is now selling very young spiders, and rosehairs take AGES to grow, which can be frustrating for new and old keepers alike. I like the idea of a B albopilosum(not sure if this was already on the list), due to their general ease of care, decent growth, and pleasant appearance. I think they'd do a great job of introducing people to Ts.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Lander9021 (May 3, 2016)

Tfisher said:


> How about typical rose hairs? From what I can tell over 75% of people have this as their first T. Although I kind of agree with your statment.


Yeh but they'll say "they're the  most docile so safe to handle species" whitch is a load of bollards...
But yeah either them or the B.smithi or bohmei


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## Lander9021 (May 3, 2016)

Sarkhan42 said:


> The most glaring issue with this for me, is that petco is now selling very young spiders, and rosehairs take AGES to grow, which can be frustrating for new and old keepers alike. I like the idea of a B albopilosum(not sure if this was already on the list), due to their general ease of care, decent growth, and pleasant appearance. I think they'd do a great job of introducing people to Ts.


Couldn't agree more, I made that mistake my first t is g.rosea sling , u think since I've been here I've been the prime example of how not to use this site...quick example use my previous threads as proof (lol).
1. Didn't know how long these slings take to grow 
2.wrong substrate corrected after 3 attempts
4.wrong substrate height( one fall shed of been a goner)
5.I basically got a t not knowing what I was doing and posted it on here( looking stupid seems to come natural)


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## EulersK (May 3, 2016)

Not gonna lie, I haven't read the last three pages of this thread, so this might be completely random. However, I stopped into a Petco today to check out what they have going on. Here is what I noticed. They have what is called a 'dump SKU' for these spiders. That's retail lingo for "everything is sold for this price, regardless of species." The $19.99 tag literally said "Assorted Tarantulas" on the tag. As others have said, they are all housed exactly the same way - an arboreal setup, regardless of species. On top of that, there is a sticker on the outside of each enclosure that has all possible species listed with a single check mark next to which spider is in that specific enclosure. However, on that same sticker, it lists proper care... hopefully you see the problem. A B. vagans is not kept the same way as a P. irminia, but that sticker would have you believe otherwise. Finally, they all come with a cricket conveniently already inside the enclosure. What's not so convenient is that the cricket is easily 5-10x the size of the sling.

Now, here is where I'm about to get a little dark, and possibly a bit controversial. To me, it's absolutely great news that all the species are being sold as very young slings (none looked larger that 3rd or 4th instar). Why is this great news? The average keeper will never raise that spider to a size that would result in a bad bite. We can all agree that slings are fragile, especially when blatantly wrong husbandry information is printed right on the packaging. These spiders are going to die the vast majority of the time, and a parent will not shell out $20 every few months to keep buying the same spider for their child. In short, it's terrible that these spiders are being sent to slaughter, but it's frankly great for the hobby that this is the case. Less chance for a bite, less chance for bad press, less chance for a ban.


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## Toxoderidae (May 3, 2016)

EulersK said:


> Not gonna lie, I haven't read the last three pages of this thread, so this might be completely random. However, I stopped into a Petco today to check out what they have going on. Here is what I noticed. They have what is called a 'dump SKU' for these spiders. That's retail lingo for "everything is sold for this price, regardless of species." The $19.99 tag literally said "Assorted Tarantulas" on the tag. As others have said, they are all housed exactly the same way - an arboreal setup, regardless of species. On top of that, there is a sticker on the outside of each enclosure that has all possible species listed with a single check mark next to which spider is in that specific enclosure. However, on that same sticker, it lists proper care... hopefully you see the problem. A B. vagans is not kept the same way as a P. irminia, but that sticker would have you believe otherwise. Finally, they all come with a cricket conveniently already inside the enclosure. What's not so convenient is that the cricket is easily 5-10x the size of the sling.
> 
> Now, here is where I'm about to get a little dark, and possibly a bit controversial. To me, it's absolutely great news that all the species are being sold as very young slings (none looked larger that 3rd or 4th instar). Why is this great news? The average keeper will never raise that spider to a size that would result in a bad bite. We can all agree that slings are fragile, especially when blatantly wrong husbandry information is printed right on the packaging. These spiders are going to die the vast majority of the time, and a parent will not shell out $20 every few months to keep buying the same spider for their child. In short, it's terrible that these spiders are being sent to slaughter, but it's frankly great for the hobby that this is the case. Less chance for a bite, less chance for bad press, less chance for a ban.


And they are instigating change.. just not in this first wave. The only change they were able to make was to remove OW.


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## Lander9021 (May 3, 2016)

EulersK said:


> Not gonna lie, I haven't read the last three pages of this thread, so this might be completely random. However, I stopped into a Petco today to check out what they have going on. Here is what I noticed. They have what is called a 'dump SKU' for these spiders. That's retail lingo for "everything is sold for this price, regardless of species." The $19.99 tag literally said "Assorted Tarantulas" on the tag. As others have said, they are all housed exactly the same way - an arboreal setup, regardless of species. On top of that, there is a sticker on the outside of each enclosure that has all possible species listed with a single check mark next to which spider is in that specific enclosure. However, on that same sticker, it lists proper care... hopefully you see the problem. A B. vagans is not kept the same way as a P. irminia, but that sticker would have you believe otherwise. Finally, they all come with a cricket conveniently already inside the enclosure. What's not so convenient is that the cricket is easily 5-10x the size of the sling.
> 
> Now, here is where I'm about to get a little dark, and possibly a bit controversial. To me, it's absolutely great news that all the species are being sold as very young slings (none looked larger that 3rd or 4th instar). Why is this great news? The average keeper will never raise that spider to a size that would result in a bad bite. We can all agree that slings are fragile, especially when blatantly wrong husbandry information is printed right on the packaging. These spiders are going to die the vast majority of the time, and a parent will not shell out $20 every few months to keep buying the same spider for their child. In short, it's terrible that these spiders are being sent to slaughter, but it's frankly great for the hobby that this is the case. Less chance for a bite, less chance for bad press, less chance for a ban.


Perhaps petco knew all along the ts would die ...so that the customer buys another ...a big scam

Reactions: Disagree 3


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## Toxoderidae (May 3, 2016)

Lander9021 said:


> Perhaps petco knew all along the ts would die ...so that the customer buys another ...a big scam


Why are you still posting this crap?

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Draketeeth (May 3, 2016)

Tfisher said:


> How about typical rose hairs? From what I can tell over 75% of people have this as their first T. Although I kind of agree with your statment.


The new packages have "Rose Hair Tarantula" listed as one of the species they'll carry, and it's been one they've carried, hence a common first T. What concerns me about this is the scientific name listed below is: _Grammostola sp._. A whole list of very specific tarantulas on the packaging with the scientific names, and then they suddenly get wishy-washy.



Sarkhan42 said:


> The most glaring issue with this for me, is that petco is now selling very young spiders, and rosehairs take AGES to grow, which can be frustrating for new and old keepers alike. I like the idea of a B albopilosum(not sure if this was already on the list), due to their general ease of care, decent growth, and pleasant appearance. I think they'd do a great job of introducing people to Ts.


_B. albo_ they've stocked as adults, and they'll be getting them in the new packages. Very awesome spiders, this was my introductory T when I started, and my success with the little sling prompted me to continue collecting a few other Ts as time has passed. I totally agree that this is a good species for a starter, and alright for a starter sling. They're usually pretty good about telling you what they need, and those clear signals put me at ease. I love my Albo!


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## Lander9021 (May 3, 2016)

Toxoderidae said:


> Why are you still posting this crap?


Why do you think it's crap, what is so hard to believe.


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## viper69 (May 3, 2016)

Lander9021 said:


> Why do you think it's crap, what is so hard to believe.


It is not a viable business model, that is basic business. That's a product-oriented model and not a consumer-oriented model; the former is not successful in the long term. History is full of examples of the former and their ensuing failures.

I'd like to think this is not the case with this org.


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## Travis21v4 (May 3, 2016)

I visited a petco here in vegas... They had the same thing. "Assorted slings" , on the front you cant tell or is it labeled what it is... On the back is a checkmark on which species. Jenn and I asked a couple questions and... We were told they will recieve training when they recieve the new species. As far as ow is concerned they guy has no idea if they will get them or not. We kept it extremely civilized and only asked questions like we were interested in attaining some. Was told they were fed flightless fruit flies... Until u look in the container and see a cricket 5x the size of the sling, a fake leaf and some grey styrofoam. Not knowledgable in the least... And the thing that made no sense at all, is when we asked to see if they had tarantulas the answer was no, but we have  baby spiders. Its exactly how I expected it to be, so wasnt to caught off guard. I just
Hope they ditch this... And sell more hamsters or something.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## gypsy cola (May 3, 2016)

@viper69 I seriously applaud your efforts. Thank you for what you have done for this hobby.

For the longest time this board has had it share of Petco posts... Now we have visibility and change. You are responsible for changing the hobby for good. No little kid is going to the hospital because you made a call and hopefully Petco will have some accurate care sheets.

Please pat yourself on the back. I cannot do it.

I also thank everyone who ever visited a store, wrote, or called Petco as well. Our hobby is going to get more attention and it is going in the right direction before anyone got hurt.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 3


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## Chris LXXIX (May 3, 2016)

@Lander9021

While i do understand your concerns about big corporations, there's a thing to say when it comes to the US. That's the land of class actions and powerful lawyers (aka 'Sharks', like here those were called) that are able to perform some great battle/s in the courts, and earn multi-millionaire compensations, sometimes.

For what reason do you think that (back then in 1992, when i was a kid purchasing my first T's) the breeder didn't sold us (add my bro) that amazing "blue" OW _Theraphosidae _(i don't remember now which one was, lol) we asked for?
We had the money, rest assured.

I tell you. Because his first thought probably was: "if tonight the spider bites those kids, tomorrow i am in trouble with parents". Not the best thing a shop keeper wants.

What do you think will happens in the US if (let's make an "if" scenario) all of a sudden, instead of "Grammo & Brachy" the average Petco "Grammo & Brachy" *customers *ends home with _P.ornata_, _P.murinus_, _S.calceatum_ etc?

A bite or an escape is to consider with those, especially in the hands of unexperienced, or not prepared for, customers.

A couple of wrong bites to the wrong person, and a storm of "no one wants" s... happens. And no one wants that.
That's why, probably lol, those were listening to what Viper69 said  with attention


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## AphonopelmaTX (May 3, 2016)

Lander9021 said:


> Perhaps petco knew all along the ts would die ...so that the customer buys another ...a big scam


Interesting. What you're basically saying is that these tarantulas sold by Petco will be in the category of "disposable pet."  In case anyone is unfamiliar with the term, a disposable pet is an animal which usually die quickly, for one reason or another, and can be easily and cheaply replaced.  Examples of this include gold fish, beta fish, anoles (lizards), mice, rats, gerbils, etc. etc.   I'm sure there are plenty of people out there that remember being kids and getting a pet, it dies, then you get a new one shortly after.  I can't say for sure if that is what Petco or any pet store really intends with the animals they sell, but it would be hard to believe they are not aware of this occurring with pet consumers and plan for it accordingly.

Similarly, in other product markets there is planned obsolescence which we are all familiar with.  This is when a product is designed to become obsolete or break after a period of use so that you, as a consumer, will go out and buy the same thing again over and over.  Consumer technology is the best example of this and also occurs with every day mundane things you use around the house and don't even realize they are planned to fail.

It's really unfortunate that animals are treated like products, but they are.  I don't make any claim to know what goes on in any pet store, but there are some realities of the pet trade that seem to be overlooked or outright ignored when discussions like this come up.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


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## SpiderDad61 (May 3, 2016)

I stopped into my local petco today to check things out. I needed crickets so was gonna go anyway. I noticed right away the Ts for sale. All species for $19.99
I didn't bother checking what species they had because I was pissed to see them all in that same "container" that looks like what pepper comes in. It had 1/2" foam on bottom in place of substrate, a tiny fake leaf, NO water dish and poor ventilation on the lid. 
I talked to the woman getting my crickets, and explained they each need special care and housing depending on species, and especially No foam flooring. She totally agreed, and said as someone who herself kept Ts, expected to have a talk with her manager when she can. She right away said it wasn't her managers call, as we know, but corporate wanted the Ts in those containers because they are neat little packages for catching the eye and selling to the public. 
It's really sad

Reactions: Agree 2


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## SpiderDad61 (May 3, 2016)

The ONLY good thing about it was the price without paying shipping, or having to wait for your T, but to me it's not an issue to pay a lil shipping to be a responsible T keeper.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Lander9021 (May 3, 2016)

AphonopelmaTX said:


> Interesting. What you're basically saying is that these tarantulas sold by Petco will be in the category of "disposable pet."  In case anyone is unfamiliar with the term, a disposable pet is an animal which usually die quickly, for one reason or another, and can be easily and cheaply replaced.  Examples of this include gold fish, beta fish, anoles (lizards), mice, rats, gerbils, etc. etc.   I'm sure there are plenty of people out there that remember being kids and getting a pet, it dies, then you get a new one shortly after.  I can't say for sure if that is what Petco or any pet store really intends with the animals they sell, but it would be hard to believe they are not aware of this occurring with pet consumers and plan for it accordingly.
> 
> Similarly, in other product markets there is planned obsolescence which we are all familiar with.  This is when a product is designed to become obsolete or break after a period of use so that you, as a consumer, will go out and buy the same thing again over and over.  Consumer technology is the best example of this and also occurs with every day mundane things you use around the house and don't even realize they are planned to fail.
> 
> It's really unfortunate that animals are treated like products, but they are.  I don't make any claim to know what goes on in any pet store, but there are some realities of the pet trade that seem to be overlooked or outright ignored when discussions like this come up.


That is exactly what I am saying, yes it won't be as obvious as that but it's still pheasable and when you think about quite easy to cover up....fair enough chances are small but the odds of leaving your house and dieing is small but it happens.


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## Walter1 (May 3, 2016)

Methal said:


> ease up there trigger! Its all going to be ok.
> 
> but no, i'm afraid your mistaken on this point. Change in the US doesn't happen because of Citizens, it happens when someone dies, and someone get sued, and the government gets involved.
> 
> ...


I'll take fear of lawsuits if it keeps OWs out of chains.


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## viper69 (May 3, 2016)

gypsy cola said:


> @viper69 I seriously applaud your efforts. Thank you for what you have done for this hobby.
> 
> For the longest time this board has had it share of Petco posts... Now we have visibility and change. You are responsible for changing the hobby for good. No little kid is going to the hospital because you made a call and hopefully Petco will have some accurate care sheets.
> 
> ...


Thanks Gypsy. However, to be fair it was you who brought this to the forum's attention sooner rather than later. So kudos to you as well!

I agree re the big box posts. I was prompted by a few things to call them:

1. Tired of seeing posts like that, and recognizing change in an org, at times, comes from the top not from the store employees.
2. I personally felt selling OWs in a big box store was going to end up in a lawsuit and restrictions on responsible keepers, just like it happened to us snake keepers
3. And I've always felt certain things are true in life such as the famous quote "*You must be the change you wish to see in the world.- Mahatma Gandhi"*

Reactions: Like 4


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## darkness975 (May 3, 2016)

It is really a shame that our hobbies are so despised by the average Joe Schmo out there. They cannot be adult enough to leave us alone they have to go out of their way to demonize them and us. 

I am pleasantly surprised to see that this turned out the way it did. I admit I had fear for the worst possible outcome when I first read about this. Hats off to everyone here who has helped to make a difference. Hopefully they will take our advice to heart and make the necessary corrections.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## BorisTheSpider (May 3, 2016)

Lander9021 said:


> Perhaps petco knew all along the ts would die ...so that the customer buys another ...a big scam


All Ts die , no matter where they were purchased . So do all dogs , all cats , all birds , all fish , all reptiles and all rodents that are sold by Petco or any other pet shop . It's not a scam it's just nature . All living things will die sooner or later . Even the mighty Norwegian Blue , no matter how beautiful their plumage .

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Lander9021 (May 4, 2016)

Check how ppl start agreeing with my point now that a staff member has spelled it out to you....#sheeprobotdumbbrownnose


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## Dovey (May 4, 2016)

Well, ok, I admit it: I bought and I'm proud...so there. Came home with a healthy, active wee LP sling, inovatively packaged, for $19, NO SHIPPING. Yes, it's tube seemed a bit dry, and yes, the clerk had to double check some husbandry notes on his smart phone (they had just come in that day, and nobody knew nuthin bout nuthin) but the little sucker has eaten every other day and looks bumptious and thriving. But when I saw the old world list, I nearly weed in my boots! Said they were CRAZY to sell those little soul suckers to unsuspecting 10 year olds, and let the litigation commence!


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## Dovey (May 4, 2016)

My big whine was MORE ARBOREALS! FEWER DIRT MOVERS!


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## Dovey (May 4, 2016)

Now, may I ask all y'all to send letters to Petsmart requesting they cease to place koi, notoriously strong jumping pond fish that will be viewed from ABOVE, on the top damn shelf? I'm six feet tall, and even I sometimes cant even tell if there are fish in the tank!

Corporate pet empires: BARF.


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## Dovey (May 4, 2016)

Welcome to the land of free enterprize. The ball python morph breeders have lived there since the bottom dropped out of their market  4 years ago. Way of the world, m'dear.


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## vespers (May 4, 2016)

Toxoderidae said:


> and NO OW tarantulas have been sent out yet, and none will.


_That isn't true._ This is all about that "Tarantula Hut" gimmick? My local Petco had 6 of them in stock back on April 8th, and they have all since sold. However, of the 6 slings in said huts, 5 were new world (a G. rosea, an Aphonopelma sp., a B. Vagans, and two Nhandu sp.)...but the 6th was an OBT. All of the slings were approximately fingernail size.
The main thing that annoyed me was one of the sales ladies harshly telling me that I wasn't allowed to take pictures, when I took a picture. Its not the first time I've taken pictures, but they said "corporate won't allow it".  I said "or what?"
My wife then told them that there are no signs posted stating that pictures shouldn't be taken. They pretty much shut up at that point.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## Toxoderidae (May 4, 2016)

vespers said:


> _That isn't true._ This is all about that "Tarantula Hut" gimmick? My local Petco had 6 of them in stock back on April 8th, and they have all since sold. However, of the 6 slings in said huts, 5 were new world (a G. rosea, an Aphonopelma sp., a B. Vagans, and two Nhandu sp.)...but the 6th was an OBT. All of the slings were approximately fingernail size.
> The main thing that annoyed me was one of the sales ladies harshly telling me that I wasn't allowed to take pictures, when I took a picture. Its not the first time I've taken pictures, but they said "corporate won't allow it".  I said "or what?"
> My wife then told them that there are no signs posted stating that pictures shouldn't be taken. They pretty much shut up at that point.


Hm. Well that's troubling.


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## vespers (May 4, 2016)

The bottom left container housed the OBT sling.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Chris LXXIX (May 4, 2016)

That's the future of "Tarachula/s" keeping, awesome. *Just awesome*. Crap bottles, weird "moquette" as substrate, a leave, adhesives all over the place. Pure minimalism with an hint of Kitsch, for a $20 steal price, offered by "Tarachula Hut".

For $30 some "Fry" will deliver as well a pizza to your address straight from "Pizza Hut" (joint venture) for have a "nice, Tarachula/s nite".

This is the beginning of a new dawn for the U.S "Tarachula/s" hobby! 

European breeders, watch & learn, Jesus Christ. Watch & learn.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Tfisher (May 4, 2016)

Lander9021 said:


> Check how ppl start agreeing with my point now that a staff member has spelled it out to you....#sheeprobotdumbbrownnose


On the contrary its also a good practice to distribute a wide variety of T's (hamsters, gerbils, lizards,snakes) in a good healthy manner as to have the same people come back and buy more. Majority of people just cant have one of these creatures.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Tfisher (May 4, 2016)

AphonopelmaTX said:


> Interesting. What you're basically saying is that these tarantulas sold by Petco will be in the category of "disposable pet."  In case anyone is unfamiliar with the term, a disposable pet is an animal which usually die quickly, for one reason or another, and can be easily and cheaply replaced.  Examples of this include gold fish, beta fish, anoles (lizards), mice, rats, gerbils, etc. etc.   I'm sure there are plenty of people out there that remember being kids and getting a pet, it dies, then you get a new one shortly after.  I can't say for sure if that is what Petco or any pet store really intends with the animals they sell, but it would be hard to believe they are not aware of this occurring with pet consumers and plan for it accordingly.
> 
> Similarly, in other product markets there is planned obsolescence which we are all familiar with.  This is when a product is designed to become obsolete or break after a period of use so that you, as a consumer, will go out and buy the same thing again over and over.  Consumer technology is the best example of this and also occurs with every day mundane things you use around the house and don't even realize they are planned to fail.
> 
> It's really unfortunate that animals are treated like products, but they are.  I don't make any claim to know what goes on in any pet store, but there are some realities of the pet trade that seem to be overlooked or outright ignored when discussions like this come up.


Most of what you classified as a "disposable pet" can be sold as a pet if the right person looks at it. However those seem to be more feeders to me. Again a better business practice is to sell healthy creatures in the attempt to have them come back and buy more. Not sticking up for petco tho. hahah
So what petco needs to focus on is better husbandry and the types of species being sold.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## viper69 (May 4, 2016)

Lander9021 said:


> Check how ppl start agreeing with my point now that a staff member has spelled it out to you....#sheeprobotdumbbrownnose


What point were you making? The fact that you think they are disposable etc, what Apho had posted about?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## pnshmntMMA (May 6, 2016)

Went in to my local petco last night for their deal on tanks. $1 per gallon. Grabbed a spare 10 gallon tank to have. Sure enough they had some OW slings in these little vertical containers. Foam at the bottom, and 2 fake leaves. No water, bone dry...looked like pokies to be honest. Just had to shake my head.


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## Abyss (May 6, 2016)

Possible good news on the petco front........

On a whim i just called a local to atlanta petco to "inquire" about tarantulas and the lady told me they have pulled all T's from their store and she was informed that petco is cutting most out of what was planned to be offered.
Nonidea if its just that store in specific or the whole chain thats doing this but i remain optomistic they may be altering their plans. Perhaps you folks who got to talk to them have done some good!!!!!!

Reactions: Like 2 | Love 1 | Award 1


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## EulersK (May 6, 2016)

Lander9021 said:


> Check how ppl start agreeing with my point now that a staff member has spelled it out to you....#sheeprobotdumbbrownnose


Did you just use hashtag in a forum with no such feature?

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Trenor (May 6, 2016)

#YouKnowIt

Reactions: Funny 8


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## Dovey (May 7, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> That's the future of "Tarachula/s" keeping, awesome. *Just awesome*. Crap bottles, weird "moquette" as substrate, a leave, adhesives all over the place. Pure minimalism with an hint of Kitsch, for a $20 steal price, offered by "Tarachula Hut".
> 
> For $30 some "Fry" will deliver as well a pizza to your address straight from "Pizza Hut" (joint venture) for have a "nice, Tarachula/s nite".
> 
> ...


ANDDDDDD, THE HUT SMELLED ALL WIERD FUNNY, like the adhesive was made of something toxic. I peeled it off and threw it away. phew!

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Dovey (May 7, 2016)

Abyss said:


> Possible good news on the petco front........
> 
> On a whim i just called a local to atlanta petco to "inquire" about tarantulas and the lady told me they have pulled all T's from their store and she was informed that petco is cutting most out of what was planned to be offered.
> Nonidea if its just that store in specific or the whole chain thats doing this but i remain optomistic they may be altering their plans. Perhaps you folks who got to talk to them have done some good!!!!!!


Wow, does that make my little LV a collectors item??????


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## Dovey (May 7, 2016)

775, member: 114046"]Wow, does that make my little LV a collectors item??????[/QUOTE]        
LP, NOT LV. You kew what I meant, right???????


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## Abyss (May 8, 2016)

Dovey said:


> 775, member: 114046"]Wow, does that make my little LV a collectors item??????


LP, NOT LV. You kew what I meant, right???????[/QUOTE]
No idea what ur talking about lol

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Jerry (May 8, 2016)

Well I stopped by my local Petco no new T flood there just a single A.Avic they've had for a while

Reactions: Like 2


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## Red Eunice (May 9, 2016)

I've yet to get a response from the email I sent, maybe I'll call the Petco # that was provided.
 FWIW, the 3 Petco stores in my area don't sell any T's and I have asked at each store. Only "live" items are male Bettas in the small glass bowls.
 I do however buy my chinchilla food there, only local store that carries 25 & 50 pound bags.


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## Abyss (May 10, 2016)

Red Eunice said:


> I've yet to get a response from the email I sent, maybe I'll call the Petco # that was provided.
> FWIW, the 3 Petco stores in my area don't sell any T's and I have asked at each store. Only "live" items are male Bettas in the small glass bowls.
> I do however buy my chinchilla food there, only local store that carries 25 & 50 pound bags.


Same, no response to my email either. Hopefully its because they are flooded with em

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Dovey (May 11, 2016)

Yet another charming aspect of BIG RETAIL is that store sizes and standard products vary wildly. When I lived in Tyler, TX, we finally got a Petco (always good to have another source for bedding, etc.) but it was a small one with really pathetic stock. Don't even get me started on their live feeder aisle other than to say even fruit flies should have decent lives, let alone those poor plague-ridden crickets - when they HAD crickets. Just up the road in Longview, however, was a rockin' Petco that featured really hard to find stock like gorgeous archer fish for less than $7 each and a dependably fresh supply of feeder insects. Same corporation, same region, similar towns: an hour, yet worlds, apart!


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## Crone Returns (May 11, 2016)

Dovey said:


> Yet another charming aspect of BIG RETAIL is that store sizes and standard products vary wildly. When I lived in Tyler, TX, we finally got a Petco (always good to have another source for bedding, etc.) but it was a small one with really pathetic stock. Don't even get me started on their live feeder aisle other than to say even fruit flies should have decent lives, let alone those poor plague-ridden crickets - when they HAD crickets. Just up the road in Longview, however, was a rockin' Petco that featured really hard to find stock like gorgeous archer fish for less than $7 each and a dependably fresh supply of feeder insects. Same corporation, same region, similar towns: an hour, yet worlds, apart!


Different mgr who hires staff who are like him or her.


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