# AF Hysterocrates gigas and Hysterocrates sp. "hercules" (Nigeria) compared



## Scolopeon (Jun 25, 2013)

The sp. Nigeria is 8"

The H. gigas is 7.2"

The h. gigas is proportionately leggier, carapace is almost as long, but less wide, 32 x 26mm respectively.. at this stage the back legs are almost equal in thickness to the others.

You can clearly see the sp. Nigeria is a much bulkier species.

Enjoy.

[YOUTUBE]reyUynH2bdo[/YOUTUBE]

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## Scolopeon (Jul 12, 2013)

An update.

I have been in contact with Andrew Smith, he found me funnily enough, then I pegged who he was.

After asking him what he thinks this Hysterocrates sp. from Nigeria could be, he had this to say:

"Ye Gods and little fishes, has someone finally secured the beast?
I have received many Hercules specimens over the years and been disappointed every time.
Where in Nigeria was the specimen collected from?
I would appreciate any information you could get for me."

So I found out some info for him, the specimens come from a nearby but different location to where hercules was found..
He was interested in acquiring specimen for filming, but after getting back to him with a price (they are not cheap) he told me he could not justify those costs. (I was trying to be middle man, I wouldn't let my own specimens go.)

I have however promised him a molt as soon as they do.. So we will hopefully find out what they are.

He also told me these specimens could be new, but new is irrelevant as the genus is such a mess.

To be honest I don't even care if they are hercules or not, they are considerably more impressive than a gigas.
I was very surprised reading Richard Gallons response on these forums about hercules being just a stumpy legged brown spider with a large carapace, I find these very impressive in behaviour and look (being brown, large carapaced and relatively stumpy legged compared to a gigas) as I have said before, they remind me of Africas equivalent to a blondi.
What I do hope is that they reach 9" that would be spectacular.


I have seen a few juveniles of this sp. trickle in to the UK hobby now, so once we find out what they are, we can get them established.

He also remarked that the gigas was a cracker of a specimen (I showed him the same vids)

His final words were "Even if this specimen is not the beast, it could be related to the beast?"

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## Scolopeon (Jul 12, 2013)

The carapace on these is extremely raised too, giving off a domed look.

Comparison next to gigas:






Top shots:






Copied images from Andrew Smiths book, but redrawn to scale using callipers:

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## Marijan2 (Jul 12, 2013)

What a monsters, damn! now i want one even more


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## Scolopeon (Jul 12, 2013)

Marijan2 said:


> What a monsters, damn! now i want one even more


Thanks I hope they get more widespread, I believe they were first exported to the UK by TSS.. he only had juveniles in.

With time we can see these established, i'm waiting on a male in the next few weeks.


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## Marijan2 (Jul 13, 2013)

i think one sp. nigeria ended up in serbia. i managed to see bunch of exported hysterocrates few months ago and that guy had one juvenile that had slim last legs, around 10 cm. i hope it comes as nigeria/hercules one


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## Scolopeon (Jul 13, 2013)

You should buy it.


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## Marijan2 (Jul 13, 2013)

The problem lies with import/export, as croatia is now EU country and serbia isn't, i'd need tons of papers and whatnot to legally import it, if it somehow ends up here i'll try to get it, but as the things are now my hands are tied. So near but so far away in the same time


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## wolfs79 (Mar 20, 2014)

Hi amazing looking tarantula very bulky looking. Only thing that concerns me is I have seen you holding your so Nigeria Hercules and it seems like they are tame as kittens. If its a true Hercules you should not even be able to get that close yet alon hold it! Mine rear up and just sit there for seconds with their fangs exposed. Who knows if I even have true Hercules their build is a little different from yours. I quests for me I want to see how big they get I hope mine will hit that 9 inch mark. Keep me posted on how yours are doing and if your big girl molts again love to hear updates from you wonderful tarantulas you have!


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## SingaporeB (Mar 21, 2014)

" Thats not a Hercules baboon its clearly a king baboon sorry to tell ya but you have been ripped off somewhere down the line"

Comment from YouTube.

I agree. I see no evidence that any "hercules" species exists.

NONE.

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## wolfs79 (Mar 21, 2014)

Its not a king baboon either though look at the rear legs they are thin as twigs but it doesn't line up with Hercules baboon spiders peter Klaas has a.picture of one in his book tarantulas in the vivarium and Hercules has thicker rear legs but not to the extended of the king baboon.


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## Scolopeon (Mar 28, 2014)

SingaporeB said:


> " Thats not a Hercules baboon its clearly a king baboon sorry to tell ya but you have been ripped off somewhere down the line"
> 
> Comment from YouTube.
> 
> ...


Didn't realise this was still going, here is an update.

These are a new Hysterocrates sp. as identified by Richard Gallon and Andrew Smith, I sent a specimen off a couple of months ago. You agree that they are King Baboons, that is just laughable, I have a better grasp on Hysterocrates than most and didn't think these were Hercs either, but are closely related.

I have a gigas (pictured) and she is a monster too, 7.2" plus legspan but the carapace isn't near as bulky.

Andrew informed me that it was very exciting news and seems to be a new species, have not heard back any more info just yet, but he asked me for another specimen, I will only send out dead spiders and molts.

They are closely related to Hysterocrates hercules, which are also from Nigeria. Maybe we will see real hercules imported soon.

Wolf I would love to see your "hercules" - the one in Peter Klass book is not a hercules, I have posted pictures of real hercules in some of my threads as provided by Andrew Smith. The specimen in his book is a sp. of Hysterocrates, but the carapace does not look impressive, maybe it is a juvenile? Identifying from pictures is also bad practice.

The only real shots of a hercules you will find, notice the pear shaped swelling on the patella of leg IV and III.
Legs are a similar thickness, I would say IV is the thickest pair and in the Hysterocrates sp. I own, leg I is the thickest.






From Peter Klass's Book:




This one is from Russ Gurley's book:




More impressive looking, could even be the same sp. I have.

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## wolfs79 (Mar 30, 2014)

Hi dude thanks for responding love your spiders. Your somewhat correct scolopean but look at the pic of the spider in Russ Gurleys book the Hercules has a tiny starved abdomen as in your tarantula its full / plump I have seen very thin gigas which made the carapace look real impressive indeed your H Nigeria is very impressive who knows if anyone will ever have a true Hercules unless its compared to the specimen in the museum yours may turn out to be more impressive. Do you plan on breeding these Nigeria's soon?


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## Scolopeon (Mar 30, 2014)

Thanks Wolf, she is probably a bit over 8" after the molt, as there is a video of it stretched out to 8" on my channel, same leg same side measurement.

I have a male on the way, but haven't picked him up just yet.

I have another of these from Germany, but it is exhibiting some differing features, need to wait until it grows some more.

Here she is recently:

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## Scolopeon (Apr 1, 2014)

Here is one of the spiders I got as "hercules" from a German seller, looks like a sp. Nigeria.






In terms of aggression/defensiveness - all of them are like this when in the enclosure, when prompted out they are perfect... I handle this one quite a bit. I have also handled sp. cameroon (likely crassipes/gigas) again, docile when out of the enclosure.

I do not in anyway advocate others to attempt what I do.


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## Poec54 (Apr 1, 2014)

Scolopeon said:


> I do not in anyway advocate others to attempt what I do.


The best way to live by those words is to not post pictures of you doing it.

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## wolfs79 (Apr 1, 2014)

Is this hysterocrates sp  Nigeria that your handling in this picture?


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## Scolopeon (Apr 1, 2014)

wolfs79 said:


> Is this hysterocrates sp  Nigeria that your handling in this picture?


This is a Hysterocrates sp. from Germany, I believe it is a sp. Nigeria but cannot tell yet, all legs appear to be the same thickness.


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## wolfs79 (Apr 2, 2014)

My ? Hercules female juvenile.


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## Scolopeon (Apr 4, 2014)

wolfs79 said:


> My ? Hercules female juvenile.


Hard to tell what you have here, looks v. similar to gigas/crassipes as a juvenile.
I would like to see some shots without flash to see what it looks like.
Not saying that is what it is, there are some interesting features but it may just be the pics.

Things to look out for:

1) orange/brown fading when it gets closer to a moult, gigas gets this too, but it is more pronounced in hercules and sp. Nigeria, seems gigas go more reddish, there is definitely a shade dfference between the three, but no solid way to pin them by color alone.

2) Carapace growth, too small to tell yet, you want the roundness, domed look, more pronounced in H. Sp. Nigeria than hercules, but it is present in hercules too, overall carapace gets larger in all spiders as they age, so hercules could have been very old, my Hysterocrates sp. Nigeria is actually quarter to half an inch longer in legspan than hercules. H. hercules has a longer overall body length due to the oblong tubular abdomen closer to gigas and most other Hysterocrates. Hysterocrates sp. Nigeria has a rounded abdomen though not as round as New Worlds, closest comparison is Phoneyusa sp. 
My Hysterocrates Sp. Nigeria has an 82-84mm total body length versus 90mm in Hysterocrates hercules.

Hysterocrates Nigeria has a 36 x 31mm carapace - very similar to hercules but a little wider (1mm) - I will need to remeasure again.

Hysterocrates laticeps is very similar in coloration to sp. Nigeria, carapace is similar shape again, but even more rounded (wide as long), adult size is smaller and leg IV is thickened entirely.

3) Real hercules seems to have swollen pear shaped patella on leg IV, leg III are pear shaped too but not swollen, something I have picked up on, maybe the preservative solution has had an effect on this as another poster pointed out.
It also has thickened tibia on leg IV although very slight, something I have never seen in another Hysterocrates (gigas seems uniformly thick on leg IV and crassipes tibia is oversized) actually Sp. Nigeria has that same pear shape on the patella as you can see in my shot above, although not as pronounced as hercules, this was my immediate response to Andrew why I don't think it is Hysterocrates hercules.

4) Even if it matched these features there is no way to tell if it was true hercules without comparing specimens.


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## wolfs79 (Apr 4, 2014)

Hi actually I did have the flash off because flash in cameras causes major colour change

---------- Post added 04-04-2014 at 06:46 PM ----------

I just had a regular light on in the room.


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## korg (Apr 4, 2014)

Scolopeon said:


> Even if it matched these features there is no way to tell if it was true hercules without comparing specimens.


I feel like "true hercules" could be almost be replaced with the name of any Hysterocrates species currently in the hobby... and even a comparison doesn't always give clear answers. Mislabeling, hybridization, individual level variations, and the overall ambiguity of the ID criteria we do have make it a swamp that I'm not sure many people are qualified to wade into.


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## wolfs79 (Apr 4, 2014)

*Male ?Hercules*

This is the male.


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## wolfs79 (Apr 8, 2014)

*Female Hysterocrates sp Hercules.*

Here is a pick of my juvenile Hercules she is getting a nice rounded Carapace.


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