# Avic Versicolor/Peru Purple/ Hybrid Project



## Singapore_Blue1 (Dec 15, 2010)

Well I am going to catch a lot of flack for this but i have chosen to breed my Avicularia versicolor 5" F and my Avicularia sp peru purple 5" M to see if I get a sac.  Normally I would have never considered doing this but no one wanted the male and I am not just going to watch him die so my project was born. I will probably repeat this with my A. minatrix as well. I have already paired them together once and the male had two successful inserts. I am going to pair them again in a couple of days and I will post the video on this thread. I will keep all my notes as things progress on this thread as well. I know that this topic is widely debated and I understand both sides of the discussion. Both spiders have so much magnificent color that the offspring should be quite striking..

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## mitchrobot (Dec 15, 2010)

im interested in seeing the outcome but please keep the slings to yourself, many of the avics in the hobby are a melting pot of mis ID as it is


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## CombiChrist (Dec 15, 2010)

Why ?

from a scientific point of view I always like experiments like that, I just hope that íf it leads to offspring, you make sure they don't get bred further...


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## ExotiPet (Dec 15, 2010)

I am very interested to hear how this turns out... I would like one if they actually survive.


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## Singapore_Blue1 (Dec 15, 2010)

Yes you are correct the Avic genus is a mess. I understand the worry about "muts" being in the hobby and keeping a Avicularia versicolor a Avicularia versicolor. However; if I actually get a successful sac they will be labeled as a hybrid and sold as such. I will most likely keep most of the slings for study but I may let a few go depending on how many I get from the sac. I don't see the issue just as long as people know what they are buying and know that it is a hybrid.


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## arachnidsrulz12 (Dec 15, 2010)

if u have them 

can u give me one of the hybrid? Ill pay for the shipping

just asking


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## Anastasia (Dec 15, 2010)

arachnidsrulz12 said:


> if u have them
> 
> can u give me one of the hybrid? Ill pay for the shipping
> 
> just asking


there you go, and then everyone wonders why Avicularia genus is a mess

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## Singapore_Blue1 (Dec 15, 2010)

Anastasia said:


> there you go, and then everyone wonders why Avicularia genus is a mess


Yeah your correct Anastasia but thats why I have intentions of choosing who I sell them too...


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## CAK (Dec 15, 2010)

Anastasia said:


> there you go, and then everyone wonders why Avicularia genus is a mess


I completely agree!  Note to self...  Add Singapore_Blue1 to my list of folks to never do business with.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Chris_Skeleton (Dec 15, 2010)

Honestly, if you give any away or sell any, that is complete irresponsibility on your part. You say you don't want them bred any further, yet what happens when one of the people you sold them to get the idea of 



Singapore_Blue1 said:


> I am not just going to watch him die so my project was born.


And the issue is that you can't keep up with who you sell them to and what they will do with them. They might know it's a hybrid and breed it anyway. They might know it's a hybrid, but not sell it as one. Don't sell any, don't give any away. So if you don't, you won't have to worry about it because one day, whether you like it or not, at least one of them will get in the wrong hands.

So there is no point in the first place. This so called "project" is just an irresponsible person breeding tarantulas, when they shouldn't be.

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## Singapore_Blue1 (Dec 15, 2010)

CAK said:


> I completely agree!  Note to self...  Add Singapore_Blue1 to my list of folks to never do business with.


Dude really get a grip and thats your business 

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Chris_Skeleton said:


> Honestly, if you give any away or sell any, that is complete irresponsibility on your part. You say you don't want them bred any further, yet what happens when one of the people you sold them to get the idea of
> 
> 
> 
> ...



First watch who your talking to cause your not talking to a newbie here. Second you have valid points but it is "my" opinion that a study like this could be beneficial. And second if I sell them only to those that I know will not breed or sell them off then there is nothing to worry about. Example....Someone else in the hobby that wants a few to study that is trustworthy...


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## Chris_Skeleton (Dec 15, 2010)

Singapore_Blue1 said:


> First watch who your talking to cause your not talking to a newbie here. Second you have valid points but it is "my" opinion that a study like this could be beneficial. And second if I sell them only to those that I know will not breed or sell them off then there is nothing to worry about.


How will it be beneficial? 

Also how can you be sure who you sell them to won't breed or sell them?

P.S. Not trying to start anything, I just don't see a point.

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## Singapore_Blue1 (Dec 15, 2010)

Thats simple a major dealer that is wanting them strictly for study period...I am not looking to water down the hobby here at the same time I think there could be a lot learned from this..


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## AbraxasComplex (Dec 15, 2010)

Singapore_Blue1 said:


> First watch who your talking to cause your not talking to a newbie here. Second you have valid points but it is "my" opinion that a study like this could be beneficial. And second if I sell them only to those that I know will not breed or sell them off then there is nothing to worry about.


How is it beneficial? There is no need to cross one with the other. What would we learn? That it can be done? We already know it can.

It seems your only drive is boredom and seeing pretty colours. You could have done that by lightly spray painting the MM once it passed on. Boredom and colour problem solved.

---------- Post added at 11:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:46 AM ----------




Singapore_Blue1 said:


> I think there could be a lot learned from this..


Such as? :wall:


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## Chris_Skeleton (Dec 15, 2010)

Singapore_Blue1 said:


> Thats simple a major dealer that is wanting them strictly for study period...I am not looking to water down the hobby here at the same time I think there could be a lot learned from this..


Okay... What can be learned?


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## Singapore_Blue1 (Dec 15, 2010)

AbraxasComplex said:


> How is it beneficial? There is no need to cross one with the other. What would we learn? That it can be done? We already know it can.
> 
> It seems your only drive is boredom and seeing pretty colours. You could have done that by lightly spray painting the MM once it passed on. Boredom and colour problem solved.
> 
> ...



Your quite the smart a** aren't you....If you can't see any other reason for study other than just what colors will come from it then you are obviously ignorant. All I was saying by that comment was the color contrast could be quite striking not that was the reason for my study....:wall:


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## CAK (Dec 15, 2010)

Chris_Skeleton said:


> Okay... What can be learned?


Well Duh!!!!   That Blue and Purple make a Purpleish Blue!  Sheesh!   ;P


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## Singapore_Blue1 (Dec 15, 2010)

Chris_Skeleton said:


> Okay... What can be learned?


Ok lets see.....Life span of a hybrid....If they become more or less tolerant of certain conditions like heat cold, moisture...ect Also the variation in size at an adult stage...Avic versicolor is slightly smaller than Avic. peru purple...about an inch from the info but I can compare to my female when the time comes. There are many different studies that can be done


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## CAK (Dec 15, 2010)

Singapore_Blue1 said:


> Ok lets see.....Life span of a hybrid....If they become more or less tolerant of certain conditions like heat cold, moisture...ect Also the variation in size at an adult stage...Avic versicolor is slightly smaller than Avic. peru purple...about an inch from the info but I can compare to my female when the time comes. There are many different studies that can be done


Then, why would you sell them if so much research is going on?  Surely you will have an aweful lot of studying even with a full sac.


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## Anastasia (Dec 15, 2010)

Singapore_Blue1 said:


> Yeah your correct Anastasia but thats why I have intentions of choosing who I sell them too...


you really think that will make much difference?
look, its very Nobel of you to be honest
but its irresponsible that is not very helpful thing to do, even knowing so
here is a possible scenario
You will get lucky in produce bunch of mixed spiderlings
then,
you will give them to the "right" folks you think (many of them)
All people are different, some very responsible and some just dont give a dam
and even sometimes plain simple mistakes happen mislabel, "mystery" spiders, etc, those mut's will be in that category 
Am sure water will find cracks to escape trough, its happened before and it will happened again
You cannot vouch for other people in the hobby, folks come and go, all the time
but what we experiment can leave a print in this hobby, sometime not a good one
Anastasia


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## Chris_Skeleton (Dec 15, 2010)

CAK said:


> Then, why would you sell them if so much research is going on?  Surely you will have an aweful lot of studying even with a full sac.


Yeah and next thing you know, his next study will be:

What happens when I breed two hybrids?
What happens when I breed a hybrid to a nonhybrid?
What happens when I bread a hybrid and then fry it up in my frydaddy?

OP, it's best just to not breed them. Then you won't have to worry about anything.


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## Singapore_Blue1 (Dec 15, 2010)

Anastasia said:


> you really think that will make much difference?
> look, its very Nobel of you to be honest
> but its irresponsible that is not very helpful thing to do, even knowing so
> here is a possible scenario
> ...



You have very valid points there...Do you consider yourself trustworthy...Your one of the people that I would consider but I am sure your not interested. The point I am making here is that there are some on this site that have been here a long time and do have the correct intentions.

---------- Post added at 03:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:00 PM ----------




Chris_Skeleton said:


> Yeah and next thing you know, his next study will be:
> 
> What happens when I breed two hybrids?
> What happens when I breed a hybrid to a nonhybrid?
> ...


First do you know the future...then quit that speculation.....Whatever I decide to do afterward if this is successful will be carefully thought out and all of the above ideas are just plain dumb...


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## Chris_Skeleton (Dec 15, 2010)

Singapore_Blue1 said:


> First do you know the future...then quit that speculation.....Whatever I decide to do afterward if this is successful will be carefully thought out and all of the above ideas are just plain dumb...


What about all your speculation? Crossbreeding in the first place is just as dumb as the points I made. And someone who is so willing and open about crosbreeding is just as likely to do my above points (except the last of course). I wouldn't put that past anyone who just crossbreeds. But I guess you're right, we're wrong.

And by your logic, my points are just as valid for study. 

Lifespan of the offspring of a hybrid, or if they become more or less tolerant of heat and cold, etc....


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## AbraxasComplex (Dec 15, 2010)

Singapore_Blue1 said:


> Your quite the smart a** aren't you....If you can't see any other reason for study other than just what colors will come from it then you are obviously ignorant.



Yep I'm the most ignorant smart a** you will ever meet... must be all those pretty colours distracting me from gettin learned real good.


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## Singapore_Blue1 (Dec 15, 2010)

Chris_Skeleton said:


> What about all your speculation? Crossbreeding in the first place is just as dumb as the points I made. And someone who is so willing and open about crosbreeding is just as likely to do my above points (except the last of course). I wouldn't put that past anyone who just crossbreeds. But I guess you're right, we're wrong.


What points did you make that I didn't answer? Again your judging what I will or won't do needs to stop....


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## Chris_Skeleton (Dec 15, 2010)

Singapore_Blue1 said:


> What points did you make that I didn't answer? Again your judging what I will or won't do needs to stop....


I'm not judging anything and I did not say that "you" will or won't, but think about the people you sell them to. 

Side note, why did you even start this thread?


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## LV-426 (Dec 15, 2010)

there is always resistance from the staus quo when you wanna push the envelope. I have no problem with the OP doin his experiment as long as he is responsible, he does have to watch out who gets these hybrids. It may be best for the OP to keep a few and destroy the rest.


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## Singapore_Blue1 (Dec 15, 2010)

Ok I started this thread because this will be the thread I post all of my information on..Including the video of the breeding....if she lays a sac...which may not even happen...If there are viable offspring...which may not happen...And finally the analysis of the offspring...Now as I said if they are sold they will be sold to only those with intentions of study period. Also it will have to be someone that I trust with this sort of thing.. I may not sell any at all...just depends on how many I would get from the sac...


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## Anastasia (Dec 15, 2010)

Chris_Skeleton said:


> Yeah and next thing you know, his next study will be:
> 
> What happens when I breed two hybrids?
> What happens when I breed a hybrid to a nonhybrid?
> ...


That can take quite of bit of time and work and resources and keeping right data and many many more I didn't even mention 
will you do that? or point who will be right person to do such,
then more questions coming
how he will be doing it, and collect information
and will he ever finish any of projects? 
or he just will get sick and tired of it (his GF left him or sumthing like dat,
and give all animals away, because he dont give rats ass anymore



Singapore_Blue1 said:


> You have very valid points there...Do you consider yourself trustworthy...Your one of the people that I would consider but I am sure your not interested. The point I am making here is that there are some on this site that have been here a long time and do have the correct intentions.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 03:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:00 PM ----------
> 
> ...


I do, and as a rule I stay by my word, that is why I think of consequences
what happens if I do such and such
that is thinking ahead, just coming sense


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## CombiChrist (Dec 15, 2010)

I would certainly be interested in the results. But I agree with Arachnomancer about the destroying of the offspring.


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## Singapore_Blue1 (Dec 15, 2010)

Also as a note I am planning on working with a local university on this so I am planning on getting as much help and resources as possible


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## AbraxasComplex (Dec 15, 2010)

Singapore_Blue1 said:


> Also as a note I am planning on working with a local university on this so I am planning on getting as much help and resources as possible


To stir the pot... I call bullcrap.

You would have mentioned this at the very beginning to justify your experiment if this was the truth. You've already said you were sending most of them to a major supplier:



> Thats simple a major dealer that is wanting them strictly for study period...


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## xhexdx (Dec 15, 2010)

Oh look, another fool thinking it's a good idea to crossbreed. :wall:

I don't care if you think you're a 'noob' or not...you are acting like one.

Irresponsible?  Check.
Name-calling?  Check.

If you want to be stupid, keep it to yourself.  The responsible members of this site really don't want to read this crap anyway.

Did you know it's possible to keep records of all of this stuff *in private*?  That spares you from everyone on the boards thinking you're an idiot, and it spares the rest of us from confirming it.

The only reason you're posting here is because you want attention.  If you were truly doing it for 'research purposes', there would be no reason to broadcast it on a public board.

In case you haven't figured it out yet, I disagree with your decision to try to crossbreed, and I'm disgusted that you're trying to make a profit from it as well.

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## CAK (Dec 15, 2010)

xhexdx said:


> Oh look, another fool thinking it's a good idea to crossbreed. :wall:
> 
> I don't care if you think you're a 'noob' or not...you are acting like one.
> 
> ...


As Kathy quite eloquently put it in xhexdx's singature...    I agree with xhexdx!


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## Chris_Skeleton (Dec 15, 2010)

xhexdx said:


> Oh look, another fool thinking it's a good idea to crossbreed. :wall:
> 
> I don't care if you think you're a 'noob' or not...you are acting like one.
> 
> ...


+1. Also why would a major dealer want them? To study? No. To sell. It's all about money.


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## forrestpengra (Dec 15, 2010)

Singapore_Blue1 = Human X Amoeba


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## Amelia (Dec 15, 2010)




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## satanslilhelper (Dec 15, 2010)

It sounds like someone was bored and wanted some attention so they started this thread. Oh, wait!! That sounds like a troll to me.;P


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## KoriTamashii (Dec 15, 2010)

satanslilhelper said:


> It sounds like someone was bored and wanted some attention so they started this thread. Oh, wait!! That sounds like a troll to me.;P


Sounds like this to me, too.


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## Anastasia (Dec 15, 2010)

AbraxasComplex said:


> > Originally Posted by Singapore_Blue1 View Post
> > Also as a note I am planning on working with a local university on this so I am planning on getting as much help and resources as possible
> 
> 
> ...





> Quote:
> Thats simple a major dealer that is wanting them strictly for study period...


Oh no.... there it goes
some new hobbyist end up with Avicularia Sp Tennessee


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## JimM (Dec 15, 2010)

Singapore_Blue1 said:


> Also as a note I am planning on working with a local university on this


If you knew anything at all, and had ever even talked with an academic, you'd know how utterly ridiculous and laughable this post is.

---------- Post added at 08:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:31 PM ----------




KoriTamashii said:


> Sounds like this to me, too.


I agree.
Let's stop feeding it.


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## elvasco (Dec 15, 2010)

So I'm more of a lurker than a poster but this always makes me curious. Has anyone ever crossed anything ridiculous? Say a OBT and T.blondi? Is that even possible?

Let me assure you all I think its a terrible idea and I'm against it for the reasons you've said (how do you know you can trust "good people" etc - That's actually the same reason I'm passionately against keeping potentially deadly animals/inverts. I know without a doubt some people on here are more than capable of keeping I'm just not as confident in their ability to judge character

I'm simply curious.


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## AprilH (Dec 15, 2010)

Yeah, I'm not buying the "research" part added on. True research would require some kind of hypothesis and testing, along with control groups, etc. Just one breeding isn't research - not in the least bit, and there's no university who would be involved. I am not saying that there is no real research that may involve creating hybrids, but the OP isn't doing it. 

The OP said he just didn't want the male to go to waste, and found a supplier willing to take them (I didn't catch his post about that, but did see the responses). If they get sold to a supplier, they will end up being resold as something else. I can pretty much guarantee that.


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## madamoisele (Dec 15, 2010)

I thought Avicularia naturally interbred in the wild?  Am I mistaken?

I'll take one of the babies, if they come.  Just send me a message.  Not interested in breeding or selling - but I would love one of the babies.


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## JimM (Dec 15, 2010)

elvasco said:


> So I'm more of a lurker than a poster but this always makes me curious. Has anyone ever crossed anything ridiculous? Say a OBT and T.blondi? Is that even possible?


Generally not possible. Animals within the same genus are very closely related to each other, and this is generally where hybridization occurs. Animals belonging to different genera, and thus with more disparate characteristics are far less likely to interact with each other. This tends to apply across the board where hybridization occurs, to fish, reptiles, etc.


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## CAK (Dec 15, 2010)

madamoisele said:


> I thought Avicularia naturally interbred in the wild?  Am I mistaken?
> 
> *I'll take one of the babies, if they come. * Just send me a message.  Not interested in breeding or selling - but I would love one of the babies.


And what happens when you get burnt out on the hobby and dump your collection for next to nothing to "billy McFishbreath?"


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## madamoisele (Dec 15, 2010)

CAK said:


> And what happens when you get burnt out on the hobby and dump your collection for next to nothing to "billy McFishbreath?"


?

I have no idea what you're talking about.  I have no intentions of dumping my collection on anyone.  These are my babies - I'd no sooner give them up than give up my dog.


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## JimM (Dec 15, 2010)

madamoisele said:


> ?
> 
> I have no idea what you're talking about.  I have no intentions of dumping my collection on anyone.  These are my babies - I'd no sooner give them up than give up my dog.


I've had to get out of the hobby twice before due to life circumstances, neither time did I ever plan on it. It may not happen to you, but the salient point is that selling T's to a responsible person doesn't guarantee they'll always live there. Life happens.

Not that it matters, this person isn't going to get a sac.


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## CAK (Dec 15, 2010)

madamoisele said:


> ?
> 
> I have no idea what you're talking about.  I have no intentions of dumping my collection on anyone.  These are my babies - I'd no sooner give them up than give up my dog.


That may be.  But there are hundreds of people that dump collections all over the place.  What happens when a supposed "trusted" individual has a hybrid loses interest in the hobby and dumps a collection?  Then the hybridized critter is potentially back on the market for breeding....


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## Singapore_Blue1 (Dec 15, 2010)

AbraxasComplex said:


> To stir the pot... I call bullcrap.
> 
> You would have mentioned this at the very beginning to justify your experiment if this was the truth. You've already said you were sending most of them to a major supplier:


No I didn't (do you read English?) Second do not call me a liar then you and I will have problems. My intention is to go to Vanderbilt and seek help...Being from Canada I doubt you even know what school I am talking about. 

---------- Post added at 05:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:11 PM ----------




JimM said:


> I've had to get out of the hobby twice before due to life circumstances, neither time did I ever plan on it. It may not happen to you, but the salient point is that selling T's to a responsible person doesn't guarantee they'll always live there. Life happens.
> 
> Not that it matters, this person isn't going to get a sac.


Your probably right :clap:....Odds are against me :?...However experience is with me ..So you never know..


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## CAK (Dec 15, 2010)

Singapore_Blue1 said:


> No I didn't (do you read English?) Second do not call me a liar then you and I will have problems. My intention is to go to Vanderbilt and seek help...Being from Canada I doubt you even know what school I am talking about.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 05:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:11 PM ----------
> 
> ...


Your Intention!?!?!?  You haven't done this yet.  You just plan on showing up to the school with a bunch of babies and say "here" research this please?

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## satanslilhelper (Dec 15, 2010)

I'm pretty sure you have helped create a list of people that after reading this thread will not ever deal with you in the future when it comes to buying or trading T's. I know I'm one of them.


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## Mdcrinos (Dec 15, 2010)

CAK said:


> And what happens when you get burnt out on the hobby and dump your collection for next to nothing to "billy McFishbreath?"


Things happen. I'm anti-hybrid but I have one.  

I did not produce the sling, buy it, nor ask for it.  It came in an order as a "freebie" and labeled as an x cross hybrid.

That said I don't plan on breeding or trading he/she and it is healthy and eating growing well so I dont relish the thought of destroying it.


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## Singapore_Blue1 (Dec 15, 2010)

CAK said:


> Your Intention!?!?!?  You haven't done this yet.  You just plan on showing up to the school with a bunch of babies and say "here" research this please?


No obviously not...I am going tomorrow to talk to someone in the biology department. So we will see if there is any interest. If not I will do it myself. But I personally won't be surprised if there is some interest. My uncle majored in science and gave me the idea. Nothing can hurt from seeking extra help and if the answers no at least I tried

Reactions: Funny 1


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## satanslilhelper (Dec 15, 2010)

CAK said:


> Your Intention!?!?!?  You haven't done this yet.  You just plan on showing up to the school with a bunch of babies and say "here" research this please?


That's how it works in Tennessee!!  I'm surprised you didn't know that.


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## CAK (Dec 15, 2010)

Singapore_Blue1 said:


> No I didn't (do you read English?) Second do not call me a liar then you and I will have problems. My intention is to go to Vanderbilt and seek help...Being from Canada I doubt you even know what school I am talking about.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 05:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:11 PM ----------
> 
> ...





satanslilhelper said:


> I'm pretty sure you have helped create a list of people that after reading this thread will not ever deal with you in the future when it comes to buying or trading T's. I know I'm one of them.


Me too!





Mdcrinos said:


> Things happen. I'm anti-hybrid but I have one.
> 
> I did not produce the sling, buy it, nor ask for it.  It came in an order as a "freebie" and labeled as an x cross hybrid.
> 
> That said I don't plan on breeding or trading he/she and it is healthy and eating growing well so I dont relish the thought of destroying it.



I have a couple as well.  All from a couple of "collections" I bought...  But...   Will "Billy McFishbreath with his birthday money" be smart like you Mdcrinos?


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## Singapore_Blue1 (Dec 15, 2010)

satanslilhelper said:


> I'm pretty sure you have helped create a list of people that after reading this thread will not ever deal with you in the future when it comes to buying or trading T's. I know I'm one of them.


Hey man thats your loss..your choice..no hair off my back..
I have Xenesthis sp. White and Pamphobeteus ultramarinus that I will be pairing up soon. I am sure niether species interests you if I have success but thats on you.;P


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## Mdcrinos (Dec 15, 2010)

Likely not thus the reason I'm anti-hybrid.  I wasn't defending the production and don't want one even if it is labeled as a sp from the home state LMAO.

I was just saying that sometimes even responsible owners end up with them.


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## CAK (Dec 15, 2010)

Singapore_Blue1 said:


> Hey man thats your loss..your choice..no hair off my back..
> I have Xenesthis sp. White and Pamphobeteus ultramarinus that I will be pairing up soon. I am sure niether species interests you if I have success but thats on you.;P


Thats ok!  Everyone will be paranoid wondering "What" you are pairing them up with.  Obviously if you have those kinds of high end species and you are perfectly ok with hybridizing to checkout pretty colors and sizes "in the name of science..."  Then you are what I have dubbed peopl in the past and will dub you as well...   A hack!


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## Singapore_Blue1 (Dec 15, 2010)

CAK said:


> Thats ok!  Everyone will be paranoid wondering "What" you are pairing them up with.  Obviously if you have those kinds of high end species and you are perfectly ok with hybridizing to checkout pretty colors and sizes "in the name of science..."  Then you are what I have dubbed peopl in the past and will dub you as well...   A hack!


Ok let me get this striaght you are dubbing me a hack cause I chose to hybridize one pair of T's as an experiment. Actually in my opinion I would be the exact opposite if I have success. Most people have problems breeding the same species let alone different species. So that comment was short sighted. Also yes I have very high end T's and no I would never hybridize them and I would watch very carefully about saying thats what I will do. And yes all this is in the name of science thats how we learn...


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## CAK (Dec 15, 2010)

Singapore_Blue1 said:


> Well I am going to catch a lot of flack for this but i have chosen to breed my Avicularia versicolor 5" F and my Avicularia sp peru purple 5" M to see if I get a sac.  Normally I would have never considered doing this but no one wanted the male and I am not just going to watch him die so my project was born. I will probably repeat this with my A. minatrix as well. *I have already paired them together once and the male had two successful inserts. I am going to pair them again in a couple of days and I will post the video on this thread.* I will keep all my notes as things progress on this thread as well. I know that this topic is widely debated and I understand both sides of the discussion. Both spiders have so much magnificent color that the offspring should be quite striking..





Singapore_Blue1 said:


> *No obviously not...I am going tomorrow to talk to someone in the biology department.* So we will see if there is any interest. If not I will do it myself. But I personally won't be surprised if there is some interest. My uncle majored in science and gave me the idea. Nothing can hurt from seeking extra help and if the answers no at least I tried





CAK said:


> Thats ok!  Everyone will be paranoid wondering "What" you are pairing them up with.  Obviously if you have those kinds of high end species and you are perfectly ok with hybridizing to checkout pretty colors and sizes "in the name of science..."  Then you are what I have dubbed peopl in the past and will dub you as well...   A hack!


Conducting "research" without a hypothesis, Thinking about getting help from a college.  And you have already started by pairing them up...    And you this this is a well thought out plan.  Looks like you Started the Car, Put it in Drive and forgot to get in! :wall:


----------



## Singapore_Blue1 (Dec 15, 2010)

CAK said:


> Conducting "research" without a hypothesis, Thinking about getting help from a college.  And you have already started by pairing them up...    And you this this is a well thought out plan.  Looks like you Started the Car, Put it in Drive and forgot to get in! :wall:


Well I am doing the project with or without the help of the college. So I didn't put the cart before the horse. I am simply seeking extra help from an expert if they are willing to assist me. What is so hard to comprehend?


----------



## CAK (Dec 15, 2010)

Singapore_Blue1 said:


> Well I am doing the project with or without the help of the college. So I didn't put the cart before the horse. I am simply seeking extra help from an expert if they are willing to assist me. What is so hard to comprehend?


There is nothing "to" comprehend.  I hope your purplish blue morphed critters live forever, defy gravity and can tap dance to music.


----------



## xhexdx (Dec 15, 2010)

CAK said:


> There is nothing "to" comprehend.  I hope your purplish blue morphed critters live forever, defy gravity and can tap dance to music.


False hopes, my friend.

How do you like the attention, OP?


----------



## AprilH (Dec 15, 2010)

I'll say again, one breeding is not research. What questions are you looking to answer? What are your methods? What are your controls? Just doing something to see what happens is NOT research. Your uncle majored in science? Great. Kind of general, and doesn't mean anything as far as you're concerned. You still don't seem to know the first thing involved in research. 

If someone were looking at hybridization in natural populations and doing DNA comparisons of different species, etc, that would be research... not 'let's see what happens.'... and it's not like there's funding just laying around. You have to write up your research plan, apply for grants, etc for funding (which is very very competitive and hard to get), and produce results.


----------



## Singapore_Blue1 (Dec 15, 2010)

xhexdx said:


> False hopes, my friend.
> 
> How do you like the attention, OP?


I was expecting it to be honest. I was not seeking it.....I am cool with taking all the hits though..I have had many disagreements on here about other subjects regarding T's as well...How you liking the thread so far? Wait till I post the breeding video tomorrow

---------- Post added at 06:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:20 PM ----------




opiate said:


> I'll say again, one breeding is not research. What questions are you looking to answer? What are your methods? What are your controls? Just doing something to see what happens is NOT research. Your uncle majored in science? Great. Kind of general, and doesn't mean anything as far as you're concerned. You still don't seem to know the first thing involved in research.
> 
> If someone were looking at hybridization in natural populations and doing DNA comparisons of different species, etc, that would be research... not 'let's see what happens.'... and it's not like there's funding just laying around. You have to write up your research plan, apply for grants, etc for funding (which is very very competitive and hard to get), and produce results.


Yes it was general about my uncle but his IQ is through the roof. (Please no comments about IQ) If you didn't notice I didn't post any of that information yet...Be patient....Who said that I was not going to consider all of this? Your correct about the funding but if there is interest they may be willing to lend me a hand in aquiring such grants...I have lots of work to do and to be clear I am not denying that nor am I opposed to the work.


----------



## Falk (Dec 15, 2010)

Singapore blue: you are useless to this hobby, please leave it.


----------



## Singapore_Blue1 (Dec 15, 2010)

Falk said:


> Singapore blue: you are useless to this hobby, please leave it.


Ok opinions and some insults are cool...Don't take it that far....Screw off bud;P


----------



## madamoisele (Dec 15, 2010)

OP, there's a lot of posters on this particular forum that will not hesitate to cut you down for anything they don't personally agree with.  Just like in life.  If you want to perform research on your T's, the smartest thing, in my opinion, would be to look to the hobbyists themselves for opinions on the matter.

The majority of hobbyists on this board are providing you with information and guidance which you probably won't take because of the hateful method of delivery some choose to respond in.  Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.  

However, if you decide to go ahead and hybridize anyway (which, as a human being, is your right), you must consider what will happen to the babies.  Are you prepared to find worthy homes for 100-200 baby spiders?  If not - what will you do?  Are you prepared to exterminate your spiders?

Many factors are to be considered before making such a decision.  But if you do make them, I'll take a baby.


----------



## JimM (Dec 15, 2010)




----------



## Singapore_Blue1 (Dec 15, 2010)

madamoisele said:


> OP, there's a lot of posters on this particular forum that will not hesitate to cut you down for anything they don't personally agree with.  Just like in life.  If you want to perform research on your T's, the smartest thing, in my opinion, would be to look to the hobbyists themselves for opinions on the matter.
> 
> The majority of hobbyists on this board are providing you with information and guidance which you probably won't take because of the hateful method of delivery some choose to respond in.  Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
> 
> ...


Yeah you are correct. One thing your not thinking about is why would someone with 15 years experience ask for input or opinions with someone with 2 or 3 years experience? Someone with equal experience cool I will listen but I am far from clueless here. As far as the babies are concerned I am prepared to care for them all myself if need be but honestly I doubt I will have that problem.. I have already had many inquires and I don't even have a sac...


----------



## kylestl (Dec 15, 2010)

Falk said:


> Singapore blue: you are useless to this hobby, please leave it.


+1 (I'm sure there are many more)

Why would you be so interested in messing with species that take 1000's of years to develop? I haven't seen anything logical in any of your posts. YOur just throwing some t's together to get "sum purrty colors". Be honest you will not test humidity, tolerance to heat and cold, and so on. When you sell them you know who will not end up dumping their tarantulas away and who won't be dumb like you and hybridize.........NO! I know this because you obviously do not care about tarantulas and their individual species. You are the type of person that makes this hobby so much less enjoyable. I will always enjoy my t's but it is people like you that just make it harder for everyone. Keep up with the projects though man. Maybe you can make prettier colors then what nature has already done for us!


----------



## Kathy (Dec 15, 2010)

Well, as someone who keeps T's just because I enjoy watching them, I have to ask......what is the big deal about the OP doing this?  It's like keeping purebred dogs and purebred cats.  Who cares if any species is "pure".  People use to (and still do) complain about blacks and whites marrying and having children or Christians and Jews and "mixed breed" kids.  So he breeds them and gets pretty tarantulas?  I would enjoy them just the same.  Why does everything have to be "pure"?  I am asking for a very logical explanation as to why this matters.  The above poster stated "thousands of years to develop"......You are saying two different types of species of tarantulas never bred in nature??


----------



## Singapore_Blue1 (Dec 15, 2010)

kylestl said:


> +1 (I'm sure there are many more)
> 
> Why would you be so interested in messing with species that take 1000's of years to develop? I haven't seen anything logical in any of your posts. YOur just throwing some t's together to get "sum purrty colors". Be honest you will not test humidity, tolerance to heat and cold, and so on. When you sell them you know who will not end up dumping their tarantulas away and who won't be dumb like you and hybridize.........NO! I know this because you obviously do not care about tarantulas and their individual species. You are the type of person that makes this hobby so much less enjoyable. I will always enjoy my t's but it is people like you that just make it harder for everyone. Keep up with the projects though man. Maybe you can make prettier colors then what nature has already done for us!


Oh,
So you know that I won't keep up with temp, humidity and so forth....You don't know me at all and stop acting like you do....stop making false accusations when you haven't a clue. I have already addressed to issue on the spiderlings. Your very short sighted...


----------



## kylestl (Dec 15, 2010)

Kathy said:


> Well, as someone who keeps T's just because I enjoy watching them, I have to ask......what is the big deal about the OP doing this?  It's like keeping purebred dogs and purebred cats.  Who cares if any species is "pure".  People use to (and still do) complain about blacks and whites marrying and having children or Christians and Jews and "mixed breed" kids.  So he breeds them and gets pretty tarantulas?  I would enjoy them just the same.  Why does everything have to be "pure"?  I am asking for a very logical explanation as to why this matters.  The above poster stated "thousands of years to develop"......You are saying two different types of species of tarantulas never bred in nature??


Another post with minimal logic:? Some peoples lively hoods rely on t's. When I buy a tarantula I would rather get a versicolor rather then some hybridized avicualria. They do cross breed in nature but PLEASE people quit trying to say we are nature. WE are not. WE are people and it is our responsibility to keep bloodlines pure. When is it your responsibility to decide that hey these distinct species of tarantulas are getting boring....lets make new ones, you should not be the one to decide that. You are aware hybridization can cause genetic defects too? Why is it about being pretty? I know I keep tarantulas that are brown and still enjoy them. I like to tell people what I have rather then having to say I don't know what it is because some idiot threw two spiders together. I'm sure others will help you make sense of it too, though you probably will not understand.


----------



## Chris_Skeleton (Dec 15, 2010)

Singapore_Blue1 said:
			
		

> Wait till I post the breeding video tomorrow


It's clear all this is to rile everyone up. 

First he was doing it because he didn't want the male to go to waste. 
Then he said a major dealer was interested in "studying" them. 
Then he said he was doing it for his own research. 
Next it was that some university was helping him. 

OP, how many more reasons are you going to give? You've changed the story so many times. 

So who is at Vanderbilt that will help with this? Is there a renowned expert on inverts there? Or are you just blindly going to talk someone in the biology department. Who would want to do this study? I mean there might be someone, I don't know, that's why I'm asking. 

You've stated so much in this thread I will not even touch on because of how ridiculous it is.


----------



## xhexdx (Dec 15, 2010)

Singapore_Blue1 said:


> How you liking the thread so far?


This about sums it up:



Falk said:


> Singapore blue: you are useless to this hobby, please leave it.


I find it pretty immature of you to say this:



Singapore_Blue1 said:


> Well I am going to catch a lot of flack for this...


Then continue to call people names who tell you that you're being stupid/immature/foolish, etc.

Can everyone please stop feeding the troll now?  If we don't post, he'll go away.


----------



## AprilH (Dec 15, 2010)

Singapore_Blue1 said:


> I was expecting it to be honest. I was not seeking it.....I am cool with taking all the hits though..I have had many disagreements on here about other subjects regarding T's as well...How you liking the thread so far? Wait till I post the breeding video tomorrow
> 
> ---------- Post added at 06:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:20 PM ----------
> 
> ...


Yeah, sorry. It's not going to happen. Unless you're in an entomology or related program and have a basis for studying those populations (and can convince the money holders of the importance of your research) it's not going to happen. Again, just one breeding - or a few to random females because you don't want to waste a male - is not scientific research. You say you're thinking of all this? Nope. I have a science background (and was a PhD student and am fully aware of what is involved in conducting research) and it's a much much more complicated process than you think it is. Sorry. I think you're full of it and just trying to justify your actions.

Also, to answer Kathy, dog breeds are all the same species, as are different human ethnic groups/races. Hybridizing involves different species. It's a different situation.


----------



## JimM (Dec 15, 2010)

Kathy said:


> Well, as someone who keeps T's just because I enjoy watching them, I have to ask......what is the big deal about the OP doing this?  It's like keeping purebred dogs and purebred cats.  Who cares if any species is "pure".  People use to (and still do) complain about blacks and whites marrying and having children or Christians and Jews and "mixed breed" kids.  So he breeds them and gets pretty tarantulas?  I would enjoy them just the same.  Why does everything have to be "pure"?  I am asking for a very logical explanation as to why this matters.  The above poster stated "thousands of years to develop"......You are saying two different types of species of tarantulas never bred in nature??


Easiest just to paste one of my many responses to this subject from the past.



> Look here's the problem, and I suggest anyone considering crossbreeding take this to heart.
> 
> First, with the exception of a few aphonopelma species where pollution of the wild gene pool is a danger (and arguably has already happened), it's not about wild populations so much. The problem is that lets say you cross a regalis with a fasciata, just for your own curiosities sake. I'll even give the person the benefit of the doubt for this example, and suggest that they never had any intention of slings ever getting out into the hobby, but things happen. Life happens. You give some to a buddy who says he'll keep them, but for whatever reason he gives them away or sells them...or breeds them.
> 
> ...




---------- Post added at 11:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:21 PM ----------

I'll add that the actual, likely real world danger to the integrity of a given species (within the hobby) in many cases is negligible...that's still no reason to be careless. You never know how things will shake out.


----------



## Kathy (Dec 15, 2010)

Opiate and JimM, thank you - what you both said makes sense and I better understand what the debate is about.


----------



## Nicole (Dec 15, 2010)

I hope you fail.


----------



## arachnidsrulz12 (Dec 16, 2010)

don't forget that we human have hybrid too

like

white marry black
black marry white
white marry asain
asian marry white
and more than they have kids lol


----------



## CAK (Dec 16, 2010)

Should have remained a locked thread....    No Christmas Bonus for that person!


----------



## Anastasia (Dec 16, 2010)

arachnidsrulz12 said:


> don't forget that we human have hybrid too
> 
> like
> 
> ...


yes and I dont see a problem wit it at all, also we dont sell our kids, and dont claim them as purebreds ;P


----------



## Falk (Dec 16, 2010)

Kathy said:


> Well, as someone who keeps T's just because I enjoy watching them, I have to ask......what is the big deal about the OP doing this?  It's like keeping purebred dogs and purebred cats.  Who cares if any species is "pure".  People use to (and still do) complain about blacks and whites marrying and having children or Christians and Jews and "mixed breed" kids.  So he breeds them and gets pretty tarantulas?  I would enjoy them just the same.  Why does everything have to be "pure"?  I am asking for a very logical explanation as to why this matters.  The above poster stated "thousands of years to develop"......You are saying two different types of species of tarantulas never bred in nature??


OMG:wall::wall::wall:


----------



## Singapore_Blue1 (Dec 16, 2010)

Let me first say thank you to whoever unlocked this thread...I feel that this project no matter how contriversal it is that I should be able to post my findings here. Honestly when I saw that it was locked I felt like I was being singled out just because of the sensitive nature of this topic. I am getting ready to film the second breeding attempt. Again thank you to the Moderators..:worship::worship:


----------



## arachnidsrulz12 (Dec 16, 2010)

Anastasia said:


> yes and I dont see a problem wit it at all, also we dont sell our kids, and dont claim them as purebreds ;P


u might not know the outside world or in nature the T become hybrid or not

Some different species at the out might mate

thats why we have Avic avic or Avic versi. and more Avic 
lol


----------



## Falk (Dec 16, 2010)

Kathy said:


> Well, as someone who keeps T's just because I enjoy watching them, I have to ask......what is the big deal about the OP doing this?  It's like keeping purebred dogs and purebred cats.  Who cares if any species is "pure".  People use to (and still do) complain about blacks and whites marrying and having children or Christians and Jews and "mixed breed" kids.  So he breeds them and gets pretty tarantulas?  I would enjoy them just the same.  Why does everything have to be "pure"?  I am asking for a very logical explanation as to why this matters.  The above poster stated "thousands of years to develop"......You are saying two different types of species of tarantulas never bred in nature??


Dogs are all the same species so dont compare them to tarantulas who are totaly different. And no they dont breed in nature.

Many species are messed up enough as it is and what do you think will happend when these hybrids get sacs etc. Thou many hybrids cant get fertile sacks, thanks god for that.

---------- Post added at 08:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:41 PM ----------




arachnidsrulz12 said:


> don't forget that we human have hybrid too
> 
> like
> 
> ...


Yes but we are still are the same species, just different races:wall:


----------



## kylestl (Dec 16, 2010)

Singapore_Blue1 said:


> Let me first say thank you to whoever unlocked this thread...I feel that this project no matter how contriversal it is that I should be able to post my findings here. Honestly when I saw that it was locked I felt like I was being singled out just because of the sensitive nature of this topic. I am getting ready to film the second breeding attempt. Again thank you to the Moderators..:worship::worship:


You truly are an asset to this hobby. With your findings there is no telling what we will be able to find out. Oh and no you weren't singled out, this stuff happens to everyone of the idiots who starts hybridizing threads because no matter how many times you tell people they are still to hard headed to understand, you know?


----------



## Singapore_Blue1 (Dec 16, 2010)

Falk said:


> Dogs are all the same species so dont compare them to tarantulas who are totaly different. And no they dont breed in nature.
> 
> Many species are messed up enough as it is and what do you think will happend when these hybrids get sacs etc. Thou many hybrids cant get fertile sacks, thanks god for that.
> 
> ...



Oh how do you know this....Personal experience? I highly doubt that. Reading about it??? Or how about just pain conjecture.... Sometimes science misses things buddy...


----------



## CombiChrist (Dec 16, 2010)

arachnidsrulz12 said:


> don't forget that we human have hybrid too
> 
> like
> 
> ...


Yes, but at least they all belong to the same species, Homo sapiens. The hybrid is just a racial thing. So not comparing to this topic.

But is it correct that some Brachypelma hybrids have been found fertile ? Then who are we to decide it's unnatural ? Nature usually shows an "unnatural mating attempt" by the infertility of the offspring...
So fertile offspring should not be considered unnatural without a further thought...


----------



## Singapore_Blue1 (Dec 16, 2010)

kylestl said:


> You truly are an asset to this hobby. With your findings there is no telling what we will be able to find out. Oh and no you weren't singled out, this stuff happens to everyone of the idiots who starts hybridizing threads because no matter how many times you tell people they are still to hard headed to understand, you know?


Thank you for your kind words... I just want everyone here to know that my intentions are good and I am going to put the time and effort into this project that it deserves. I am very excited to share what I find. By the way when both spiders were bred yesterday they went at it right away with no hesitation. They were actually on my lap during the breeding.

---------- Post added at 03:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:53 PM ----------




CombiChrist said:


> Yes, but at least they all belong to the same species, Homo sapiens. The hybrid is just a racial thing. So not comparing to this topic.
> 
> But is it correct that some Brachypelma hybrids have been found fertile ? Then who are we to decide it's unnatural ? Nature usually shows an "unnatural mating attempt" by the infertility of the offspring...
> So fertile offspring should not be considered unnatural without a further thought...


I totally agree with the above statement...Well said..:worship:


----------



## kylestl (Dec 16, 2010)

Singapore_Blue1 said:


> Thank you for your kind words... I just want everyone here to know that my intentions are good and I am going to put the time and effort into this project that it deserves. I am very excited to share what I find. By the way when both spiders were bred yesterday they went at it right away with no hesitation. They were actually on my lap during the breeding.


You don't know sarcasm when you see it......Nobody who is hybridizing has good intentions it is stupid and irresponsible thing to do. You have lost so much respect on this forum that there are quite a few who won't even sell you tarantulas. Because unlike yourself money isn't the main reason they are into tarantulas and they would rather miss out on the money then sell to some idiot who will just produce a bunch of hybrids.


----------



## Singapore_Blue1 (Dec 16, 2010)

kylestl said:


> You don't know sarcasm when you see it......Nobody who is hybridizing has good intentions it is stupid and irresponsible thing to do. You have lost so much respect on this forum that there are quite a few who won't even sell you tarantulas. Because unlike yourself money isn't the main reason they are into tarantulas and they would rather miss out on the money then sell to some idiot who will just produce a bunch of hybrids.


Well first of all money is not the reason I am into this...If it was I wouldn't be waisting my time with this project at all..I would be breeding P.metallica. M. balfouri, P. smithi all the really expensive T's and not even be messing with this. Second if your going to be sarcastic at least give some hints like this  Nothing you said sounded sarcastic. Also your input is really important to me since you just joined the boards this year...


----------



## kylestl (Dec 16, 2010)

Singapore_Blue1 said:


> Well first of all money is not the reason I am into this...If it was I wouldn't be waisting my time with this project at all..I would be breeding P.metallica. M. balfouri, P. smithi all the really expensive T's and not even be messing with this. Second if your going to be sarcastic at least give some hints like this  Nothing you said sounded sarcastic.


My post went exactly like this ---> You truly are an asset to this hobby. With your findings there is no telling what we will be able to find out. Oh and no you weren't singled out, this stuff happens to everyone of the idiots who starts hybridizing threads because no matter how many times you tell people they are still to hard headed to understand, you know?

You started a hybridizing thread correct? Then in that post I called you an idiot and said you are too hard headed to understand that hybridizing is bad. I remember a few pages back you mentioning you want to sell them. If you had adult females of metallica balfouri and smithi you'd be breeding them!


----------



## CAK (Dec 16, 2010)

kylestl said:


> *You truly are an asset to this hobby. With your findings there is no telling what we will be able to find out. *Oh and no you weren't singled out, this stuff happens to everyone of the idiots who starts hybridizing threads because no matter how many times you tell people they are still to hard headed to understand, you know?





kylestl said:


> You don't know sarcasm when you see it......*Nobody who is hybridizing has good intentions it is stupid and irresponsible thing to do. You have lost so much respect on this forum *that there are quite a few who won't even sell you tarantulas. Because unlike yourself money isn't the main reason they are into tarantulas and they would rather miss out on the money then sell to some idiot who will just produce a bunch of hybrids.


Kyle...   Am I missing something? :?


added:

I just seen the posting above.  I think it was a little Camoflauged Sarcasm.


----------



## kylestl (Dec 16, 2010)

CAK said:


> Kyle...   Am I missing something? :?
> 
> 
> added:
> ...


:wall: Read up there was sarcasm in the first post.


----------



## Singapore_Blue1 (Dec 16, 2010)

kylestl said:


> My post went exactly like this ---> You truly are an asset to this hobby. With your findings there is no telling what we will be able to find out. Oh and no you weren't singled out, this stuff happens to everyone of the idiots who starts hybridizing threads because no matter how many times you tell people they are still to hard headed to understand, you know?
> 
> You started a hybridizing thread correct? Then in that post I called you an idiot and said you are too hard headed to understand that hybridizing is bad. I remember a few pages back you mentioning you want to sell them. If you had adult females of metallica balfouri and smithi you'd be breeding them!


First of all I don't keep up by going back and rereading who insults me. Second I said I would sell to only certain people...Keep up....Third I would breed a P. metallica with a P. metallica and a M. balfouri with a M. balfouri. The point I was making is if I was just in it for the money I would not bother hybridizing A.versicolor a $20 spider and a A. sp. peru purple a $20 spider if I was just in it for money...:wall:

---------- Post added at 04:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:08 PM ----------




CAK said:


> Kyle...   Am I missing something? :?
> 
> 
> added:
> ...


Yeah you think???:?:? I just got on and I don't take the time to remember the insults from yesterday...


----------



## arachnidsrulz12 (Dec 16, 2010)

Falk said:


> Dogs are all the same species so dont compare them to tarantulas who are totaly different. And no they dont breed in nature.
> 
> Many species are messed up enough as it is and what do you think will happend when these hybrids get sacs etc. Thou many hybrids cant get fertile sacks, thanks god for that.
> 
> ...


same as T

same species of avic but different look


----------



## KoffinKat138 (Dec 16, 2010)

Anastasia said:


> Oh no.... there it goes
> some new hobbyist end up with Avicularia Sp Tennessee




Thank you Ana, that just made my day.


----------



## CAK (Dec 16, 2010)

arachnidsrulz12 said:


> same as T
> 
> same species of avic but different look




Did you seriously just go there????    :wall:


----------



## kylestl (Dec 16, 2010)

Singapore_Blue1 said:


> First of all I don't keep up by going back and rereading who insults me. Second I said I would sell to only certain people...Keep up....Third I would breed a P. metallica with a P. metallica and a M. balfouri with a M. balfouri. The point I was making is if I was just in it for the money I would not bother hybridizing A.versicolor a $20 spider and a A. sp. peru purple a $20 spider if I was just in it for money...:wall:
> 
> ---------- Post added at 04:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:08 PM ----------
> 
> ...


But your male was going to die. You do not have a versicolor male but you have a female. You put the peru purple male with the versicolor female and you said it yourself that you plan on selling. You are wanting money. If you would have did the responsible t keeper thing you would have ether let the male peru purple live out his life or shipped him out. And do you see where it would be hard for me to believe you wouldn't hybridize p metallica's. I doubt if you have a p met female you won't hybridize because that won't get the most money but if you have an extra p metallica male laying around, I could see you throwing it in with a pokie other then a metallica


----------



## arachnidsrulz12 (Dec 16, 2010)

CombiChrist said:


> Yes, but at least they all belong to the same species, Homo sapiens. The hybrid is just a racial thing. So not comparing to this topic.
> 
> But is it correct that some Brachypelma hybrids have been found fertile ? Then who are we to decide it's unnatural ? Nature usually shows an "unnatural mating attempt" by the infertility of the offspring...
> So fertile offspring should not be considered unnatural without a further thought...


same as t 

same avic species

their first world are avic

like same as human

---------- Post added at 03:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:16 PM ----------

I don't like hybrid myself, but found out it's interesting lol


----------



## Anastasia (Dec 16, 2010)

Singapore_Blue1 said:


> First of all I don't keep up by going back and rereading who insults me. Second I said I would sell to only certain people...Keep up....Third I would breed a P. metallica with a P. metallica and a M. balfouri with a M. balfouri. The point I was making is if I was just in it for the money I would not bother hybridizing A.versicolor a $20 spider and a A. sp. peru purple a $20 spider if I was just in it for money...:wall:


unfortunately they dont have just 2-3 offsprings, 
sumwhere in this thread I read about keep few and euthanize rest (I personalty can Not do that)

Am sure many times folks crossbred spiders and drop cheap offsprings on dealers, and none of you even know about it

You honest and open that is good, and whatever you do just think what would be right and appropriate
I will be follow your posts on this
Anastasia


----------



## CAK (Dec 16, 2010)

arachnidsrulz12 said:


> same as t
> 
> same avic species
> 
> ...




Smallara98...    is that you hiding in there?    Avic is genus just like Homo is.  versicolor is species just like sapien is.   All humans are Homo sapien....     Some peoples children!


----------



## kylestl (Dec 16, 2010)

arachnidsrulz12 said:


> same as t
> 
> same avic species
> 
> ...


NO homo sapian is a homo sapian. A white person is a homo sapian. A black person is a homo sapian. A Muslim person is a homo sapian. A Jewish person is a homo sapian. An avicularia sp peru purple is *NOT* an avicularia versicolor!


----------



## Singapore_Blue1 (Dec 16, 2010)

kylestl said:


> But your male was going to die. You do not have a versicolor male but you have a female. You put the peru purple male with the versicolor female and you said it yourself that you plan on selling. You are wanting money. If you would have did the responsible t keeper thing you would have ether let the male peru purple live out his life or shipped him out. And do you see where it would be hard for me to believe you wouldn't hybridize p metallica's. I doubt if you have a p met female you won't hybridize because that won't get the most money but if you have an extra p metallica male laying around, I could see you throwing it in with a pokie other then a metallica



Well you are truely niave...Not only do I have a P. metallica female but I also have a pair of Xenesthis sp white and P. ultramarinus .....and would never ever consider such a project with these prized spiders....How dare you....Insert foot in mouth....

---------- Post added at 04:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:19 PM ----------




kylestl said:


> NO homo sapian is a homo sapian. A white person is a homo sapian. A black person is a homo sapian. A Muslim person is a homo sapian. A Jewish person is a homo sapian. An avicularia sp peru purple is *NOT* an avicularia versicolor!



I totally agree with the above statement however I have theories that I am not sharing as of yet....I will share them at the appropriate time and it is in regards to this part of the topic..


----------



## arachnidsrulz12 (Dec 16, 2010)

KoffinKat138 said:


> Thank you Ana, that just made my day.


new hobbyist have ask a lot of question before they buy lol

whether it is a hybrid or not


----------



## Falk (Dec 16, 2010)

Singapore_Blue1 said:


> Well you are truely niave...Not only do I have a P. metallica female but I also have a pair of Xenesthis sp white and P. ultramarinus .....and would never ever consider such a project with these prized spiders....How dare you....Insert foot in mouth....
> 
> ---------- Post added at 04:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:19 PM ----------
> 
> ...


So the _Avicularia spp_. is junk just because they are cheap?


----------



## kylestl (Dec 16, 2010)

Singapore_Blue1 said:


> Well you are truely niave...Not only do I have a P. metallica female but I also have a pair of Xenesthis sp white and P. ultramarinus .....and would never ever consider such a project with these prized spiders....How dare you....Insert foot in mouth....


You are prizing value over species. Since a peru purple and a versicolor are not of value you are just going to hybridize them and do not care how screwed up the species gets but something that has value you won't hybridize because they are of value. Please keep posting you are making my points even more valid.


----------



## Singapore_Blue1 (Dec 16, 2010)

kylestl said:


> NO homo sapian is a homo sapian. A white person is a homo sapian. A black person is a homo sapian. A Muslim person is a homo sapian. A Jewish person is a homo sapian. An avicularia sp peru purple is *NOT* an avicularia versicolor!


I totally agree with the above statement however I have theories that I am not sharing as of yet....I will share them at the appropriate time and it is in regards to this part of the topic..

---------- Post added at 04:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:23 PM ----------




kylestl said:


> You are prizing value over species. Since a peru purple and a versicolor are not of value you are just going to hybridize them and do not care how screwed up the species gets but something that has value you won't hybridize because they are of value. Please keep posting you are making my points even more valid.


No I am not saying that Avics have no value the only point I was trying to make here is if I was trying to make money "like you said I was" I would have picked a more expensive species to do this with...:?:?


----------



## arachnidsrulz12 (Dec 16, 2010)

kylestl said:


> NO homo sapian is a homo sapian. A white person is a homo sapian. A black person is a homo sapian. A Muslim person is a homo sapian. A Jewish person is a homo sapian. An avicularia sp peru purple is *NOT* an avicularia versicolor!


avic are avic

they are the same species, but have different look

as I said I don't like hybrid myself, but found out interesting


----------



## Falk (Dec 16, 2010)

arachnidsrulz12 said:


> same as T
> 
> same species of avic but different look


No you dont get it, Avicularia is the genus, versicolor is the SPECIE:wall:


----------



## CAK (Dec 16, 2010)

arachnidsrulz12 said:


> avic are avic
> 
> they are the same species, but have different look
> 
> as I said I don't like hybrid myself, but found out interesting


Avic are NOT Avic


Put down your World of Warcraft for a minute and just read... 


Avicularia versicolor is NOT the same as Avicularia sp Peru Purple.


----------



## Anastasia (Dec 16, 2010)

arachnidsrulz12 said:


> avic are avic
> 
> they are the same species, but have different look
> 
> as I said I don't like hybrid myself, but found out interesting


Nope, 
Avicularia is a genus, and there is a versicolor or Peru purple is a species


----------



## kylestl (Dec 16, 2010)

arachnidsrulz12 said:


> avic are avic
> 
> they are the same species, but have different look
> 
> as I said I don't like hybrid myself, but found out interesting


NO THEY ARE NOT. Avicularia is the species. versicolor is the subspecies. Just as homo is the species and sapian is the subspecies. like with avicularia species peru purple notice how the species goes before peru purple, want to know why? because they are different.


----------



## John Kanker (Dec 16, 2010)

Anastasia said:


> there you go, and then everyone wonders why Avicularia genus is a mess


thats more to do with lost type specimens and bad or old papers that are hard to understand. This should not effect anything in the serious taxomical world as describing from captive bred spiders/ hobby spiders is not very profesional.
I say go for it and have fun trying. Its what the hobby is about...fun.


----------



## arachnidsrulz12 (Dec 16, 2010)

Falk said:


> No you dont get it, Avicularia is the genus, versicolor is the SPECIE:wall:


k man

I know that Avicularia is a genus


----------



## Singapore_Blue1 (Dec 16, 2010)

Anastasia said:


> unfortunately they dont have just 2-3 offsprings,
> sumwhere in this thread I read about keep few and euthanize rest (I personalty can Not do that)
> 
> Am sure many times folks crossbred spiders and drop cheap offsprings on dealers, and none of you even know about it
> ...


I will and thank you


----------



## arachnidsrulz12 (Dec 16, 2010)

kylestl said:


> NO THEY ARE NOT. Avicularia is the species. versicolor is the subspecies. Just as homo is the species and sapian is the subspecies. like with avicularia species peru purple notice how the species goes before peru purple, want to know why? because they are different.


I was going to say they are the same genus, but wrote it species


----------



## Falk (Dec 16, 2010)

arachnidsrulz12 said:


> k man
> 
> I know that Avicularia is a genus


You dont know the difference between a genus and a specie, you have proved that.


----------



## CAK (Dec 16, 2010)

arachnidsrulz12 said:


> k man
> 
> I know that Avicularia is a genus


It is a genus in the Avicularia species.. .YES    Now, in your delicate texting speak and clearly texted out....


Avicularia avicularia iz diff dan Avicularia versicolor. k


----------



## arachnidsrulz12 (Dec 16, 2010)

CAK said:


> Avic are NOT Avic
> 
> 
> Put down your World of Warcraft for a minute and just read...
> ...



I don't play World of Warcraft lol


----------



## CombiChrist (Dec 16, 2010)

arachnidsrulz12 said:


> avic are avic
> 
> they are the same species, but have different look
> 
> as I said I don't like hybrid myself, but found out interesting


The latin names always are formed by a Genus and a speciesname. Genus is capitalised, species without capital.
So we are in the genus Homo, the species sapiens. As opposed to the extincted species Homo erectus.

Same for Avicularia. It is a genus, containing sevarl species like Avicularia avicularia, Avicularia metallica, Avicularia versicolor.
They are NOT the same, but different species in a same genus.


----------



## arachnidsrulz12 (Dec 16, 2010)

CAK said:


> It is a genus in the Avicularia species.. .YES    Now, in your delicate texting speak and clearly texted out....
> 
> 
> Avicularia avicularia iz diff dan Avicularia versicolor. k


They are in the same genus, but in different species


----------



## Anastasia (Dec 16, 2010)

John Kanker said:


> thats more to do with lost type specimens and bad or old papers that are hard to understand. This should not effect anything in the serious taxomical world as describing from captive bred spiders/ hobby spiders is not very profesional.
> I say go for it and have fun trying. Its what the hobby is about...fun.


yep, there you go and another opinion
At this point I just have to say,
Folks if you looking for specific spider pick careful where you getting them from or you end up with a mutt, unless you can care less about it 
its all fun and games untill someone out of money and dont get what they paied for 
just sayn...........


----------



## arachnidsrulz12 (Dec 16, 2010)

CombiChrist said:


> The latin names always are formed by a Genus and a speciesname. Genus is capitalised, species without capital.
> So we are in the genus Homo, the species sapiens. As opposed to the extincted species Homo erectus.
> 
> Same for Avicularia. It is a genus, containing sevarl species like Avicularia avicularia, Avicularia metallica, Avicularia versicolor.
> They are NOT the same, but different species in a same genus.


as I says I forget to name the genus

---------- Post added at 03:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:38 PM ----------




Anastasia said:


> yep, there you go and another opinion
> At this point I just have to say,
> Folks if you looking for specific spider pick careful where you getting them from or you end up with a mutt, unless you can care less about it
> its all fun and games untill someone out of money and dont get what they paied for
> just sayn...........


yes, hobbyist have to ask a lot of question before they buy

---------- Post added at 03:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:41 PM ----------

I won't even buy a hybrid species, but will get it for free and won't even breed them, because their gene are coocoo or bad


----------



## Singapore_Blue1 (Dec 16, 2010)

Well I am going to get off for a while so I can get pictures and video of the second breeding...This will be posted in a couple of hours....


----------



## arachnidsrulz12 (Dec 16, 2010)

Singapore_Blue1 said:


> Well I am going to get off for a while so I can get pictures and video of the second breeding...This will be posted in a couple of hours....


A lot of people says stop breeding the hybrid


----------



## kylestl (Dec 16, 2010)

arachnidsrulz12 said:


> A lot of people says stop breeding the hybrid


Yes but they can't seem to understand that.


----------



## arachnidsrulz12 (Dec 16, 2010)

kylestl said:


> Yes but they can't seem to understand that.


I won't even breed the hybrid myselft, but found out interesting


----------



## Falk (Dec 16, 2010)

kylestl said:


> NO THEY ARE NOT. Avicularia is the species. versicolor is the subspecies. Just as homo is the species and sapian is the subspecies. like with avicularia species peru purple notice how the species goes before peru purple, want to know why? because they are different.


The _Avicularia spp._ dont have any subspecies only genus+specie


----------



## Nicole (Dec 16, 2010)

As someone who collects and breeds almost exclusively Avicularia, this thread is very, very frustrating.  Asking questions is not the issue.  Lots of avic slings ALREADY look alike enough that they can be confusing.  Adding an unscrupulous seller to the mix that could his hybrids as pure species makes it almost impossible to know what you have until long after purchase, if ever.  The more hands they pass through, the harder it gets to trace origins, just like with WC avics that are imported under species names that may or may not be correct just so the paperwork can be filled out completely.

IMO, the ONLY way to do such an "experiment" responsibly is to never, EVER let a single one of the slings leave your possession, because you never know what the person you sold/gave them to is going to do with them.


----------



## kylestl (Dec 16, 2010)

Falk said:


> The _Avicularia spp._ dont have any subspecies only genus+specie


yes sorry meant genus and species. Still the same idea though


----------



## arachnidsrulz12 (Dec 16, 2010)

Nicole said:


> As someone who collects and breeds almost exclusively Avicularia, this thread is very, very frustrating.  Asking questions is not the issue.  Lots of avic slings ALREADY look alike enough that they can be confusing.  Adding an unscrupulous seller to the mix that could his hybrids as pure species makes it almost impossible to know what you have until long after purchase, if ever.  The more hands they pass through, the harder it gets to trace origins, just like with WC avics that are imported under species names that may or may not be correct just so the paperwork can be filled out completely.
> 
> IMO, the ONLY way to do such an "experiment" responsibly is to never, EVER let a single one of the slings leave your possession, because you never know what the person you sold/gave them to is going to do with them.


yup almost the Avic genus/species sling look the same


----------



## Falk (Dec 16, 2010)

I asked a friend of mine with a lot of knowledge about this and he think that it wont work because _A. versicolor_ and _Avicularia sp._ "Peru purple" belong to different komplex within the genus.


----------



## Anastasia (Dec 16, 2010)

arachnidsrulz12 said:


> yup almost the Avic genus/species sling look the same


that is just your assumption


----------



## arachnidsrulz12 (Dec 16, 2010)

Anastasia said:


> that is just your assumption


I says almost not all lol;P


----------



## John Kanker (Dec 16, 2010)

Anastasia said:


> yep, there you go and another opinion
> At this point I just have to say,
> Folks if you looking for specific spider pick careful where you getting them from or you end up with a mutt, unless you can care less about it
> its all fun and games untill someone out of money and dont get what they paied for
> just sayn...........


yes another opinion just like yours. and I just have to say I would have thought that if you were serious about not having hybrids you would pick very carefully where you got your spiders from anyway so no change there.

and your fun and games example happens more often enough anyway, when people buy things like a phampo sp thinking it is a T. blondi and countless other examples that have nothing to do with hybrids and more to do with eithe,r people knowingly ripping people off or very bad IDs that no one bothers to check. so no change there either.
just sayn........


----------



## Anastasia (Dec 16, 2010)

arachnidsrulz12 said:


> I says almost not all lol;P


to correct you, I would say some, few
there is over four dozen species of Avicularia genus, and Am sure more that we dont even know about it


----------



## arachnidsrulz12 (Dec 16, 2010)

Anastasia said:


> to correct you, I would say some, few
> there is over four dozen species of Avicularia genus, and Am sure more that we dont even know about it


I don't need a correction I like to say whatever I want ;P

I already said that we don't know their are different genus of avic 

read the beggining of the post lol


----------



## CAK (Dec 16, 2010)

arachnidsrulz12 said:


> *I don't need a correction I like to say whatever I want* ;P
> 
> I already said that we don't know their are different genus of avic
> 
> read the beggining of the post lol


Attitude like that...  You won't last long around here.


----------



## Anastasia (Dec 16, 2010)

John Kanker said:


> yes another opinion just like yours. and I just have to say I would have thought that if you were serious about not having hybrids you would pick very carefully where you got your spiders from anyway so no change there.
> 
> and your fun and games example happens more often enough anyway, when people buy things like a phampo sp thinking it is a T. blondi and countless other examples that have nothing to do with hybrids and more to do with eithe,r people knowingly ripping people off or very bad IDs that no one bothers to check. so no change there either.
> just sayn........


little bit of difference between mis ID and crossbreeding...no?
just sayin.........


----------



## arachnidsrulz12 (Dec 16, 2010)

CAK said:


> Attitude like that...  You won't last long around here.


lol 
these is a free country


----------



## CAK (Dec 16, 2010)

arachnidsrulz12 said:


> lol
> these is a free country


Very much agree these is a free country.  ;P


----------



## arachnidsrulz12 (Dec 16, 2010)

CAK said:


> Very much agree these is a free country.  ;P


your attitude too won't last long on here too lol

just kidding


----------



## Chris_Skeleton (Dec 16, 2010)

Anastasia said:


> little bit of difference between mis ID and crossbreeding...no?
> just sayin.........


+1. That was a horrible example. Atleast with a misidentification like that, you could still breed them without messing anything up or hybridizing.


----------



## hassman789 (Dec 16, 2010)

did they stop fighting? I read the first 2 pages and got bored. My opinion is that many RESPONSIBLE people who you say you may give too would feel against it, but like I said, MANY responsible people, not all. But If most the people who are actualy responsible dont want them, the people you are giving them to may be IResponsible. That probably didn't make alot of sense but I tried... lol


----------



## Poxicator (Dec 16, 2010)

We often see the argument "it happens in the wild" and yet we rarely see the ramifications of that, its rather a sweeping statement that many use, and yet there's few examples of it. Many species are pocketed into areas that restrict hybridising due to natural elements, eg rivers, islands, mountain regions etc.
However, when hobbyists quote this occurrence they rarely stick to species that might be found to hybridise, and therefore IMO merely use it to support their argument.
The 2 species mentioned are separated by a good many miles and plenty of water. In the wild they'd never meet except by the intervention of man. Peru and the Antilles Islands are at least 800 miles apart. It certainly wouldn't surprise me if that failure to examine locational hybridisation resulted in the loss of either the male or the female. 


Looking at your profile it suggests you're 25 yrs old, and you say you've been keeping Ts for 15 years. Most people I know that have kept Ts for that duration are keen to avoid hybridisation, they are aware of the results, the threat to hobby stock, and importantly they are aware of the importance of the correct procedure and how to suggest their trials in forums without attracting so much negativity. Your 15 years of experience may have taught you husbandry but it lacks so much understanding.

Of course you'd have to ask how sure you are that your Avics aren't already hybrids.


----------



## Silberrücken (Dec 16, 2010)

The only winning move is not to play 

Stop feeding the troll, people.

It's all mind games, playing on wordplay.

Heated discussions, name-calling, etc etc= happy troll

My opinion?   no cross-breeding 

Closure of this thread, and permanently locked, that gets my vote. Anyone in agreement?


----------



## arachnidsrulz12 (Dec 16, 2010)

Silberrücken said:


> The only winning move is not to play
> 
> Stop feeding the troll, people.
> 
> ...


yeah, I think we should lock this thread

I'm with u


----------



## Falk (Dec 16, 2010)

It will probably not be any offspring from this due to different komplex within the genus as i wrote earlier.

arachnidsrulz12: Yes you can say whatever you want to about genus, species etc but if you are serious you should learn what a genus and specie is. Do you even know what theraphosidae is?


----------



## CAK (Dec 16, 2010)

Falk said:


> It will probably not be any offspring from this due to different komplex within the genus as i wrote earlier.
> 
> arachnidsrulz12: Yes you can say whatever you want to about genus, species etc but if you are serious you should learn what a genus and specie is. *Do you even know what theraphosidae is?*


Yep, after the smart phone and google meet theraphosidae search string...   I'm sure he does!


----------



## arachnidsrulz12 (Dec 16, 2010)

Falk said:


> It will probably not be any offspring from this due to different komplex within the genus as i wrote earlier.
> 
> arachnidsrulz12: Yes you can say whatever you want to about genus, species etc but if you are serious you should learn what a genus and specie is. Do you even know what theraphosidae is?


I know what a genus and species is 

look at the thread first than reply


----------



## Newflvr (Dec 16, 2010)

arachnidsrulz12 said:


> I know what a genus and species is
> 
> look at the thread first than reply


Well I'm confused still wondering where these, them and those fit in. Lots of tude in this thread and no plausible reasons. To the OP you brag of these high end T's that you have, don't you think time would be better spent on breeding them? My opinion on crossbreeding is just because you can don't mean you should. My 2 cents.


----------



## Singapore_Blue1 (Dec 16, 2010)

Well I am having to delay the actual video but here are some pics of the second breeding attempt...


----------



## Leviticus (Dec 16, 2010)

Singapore_Blue1 said:


> No I didn't (do you read English?) Second do not call me a liar then you and I will have problems. My intention is to go to Vanderbilt and seek help...Being from Canada I doubt you even know what school I am talking about.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 05:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:11 PM ----------
> 
> ...


Just want to say that now you are calling down Canadians. Judging from the posts you have made I would bet my collection that I could name more American Academic Institutions than you could.


----------



## Singapore_Blue1 (Dec 16, 2010)

Falk said:


> I asked a friend of mine with a lot of knowledge about this and he think that it wont work because _A. versicolor_ and _Avicularia sp._ "Peru purple" belong to different komplex within the genus.


Well I guess we may find out if your friend knows what he is talking about then....

---------- Post added at 08:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:06 PM ----------




Leviticus said:


> Just want to say that now you are calling down Canadians. Judging from the posts you have made I would bet my collection that I could name more American Academic Institutions than you could.


Not trying to affend any Canadians however I was tired of that guys condesending attitude. Being that he has been on the boards for about a year I don't take his attitude or comments seriously at all... But I apologize for the use of Canada in the subject

---------- Post added at 08:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:09 PM ----------




Newflvr said:


> Well I'm confused still wondering where these, them and those fit in. Lots of tude in this thread and no plausible reasons. To the OP you brag of these high end T's that you have, don't you think time would be better spent on breeding them? My opinion on crossbreeding is just because you can don't mean you should. My 2 cents.


Yeah your totally right my time would be better spent with them and I plan on taking that time for those spiders. However I am waiting on both males to mature out which should be next molt...


----------



## Poxicator (Dec 16, 2010)

Is the breeding on your arm part of this scientific experiment?


----------



## Singapore_Blue1 (Dec 16, 2010)

Poxicator said:


> Is the breeding on your arm part of this scientific experiment?



haha very funny...No and I am very hands on with my T's in general so don't go down that road. Stay on the topic please.


----------



## Singapore_Blue1 (Dec 16, 2010)

Here is another Pic


----------



## arachnidsrulz12 (Dec 16, 2010)

Newflvr said:


> Well I'm confused still wondering where these, them and those fit in. Lots of tude in this thread and no plausible reasons. To the OP you brag of these high end T's that you have, don't you think time would be better spent on breeding them? My opinion on crossbreeding is just because you can don't mean you should. My 2 cents.


Did I say I brag and why would I want to crossbreed two different species

as again I said I don't like hybrid but found out interesting


----------



## dannyboypede (Dec 16, 2010)

You realize that if you really want to be responsible, you could have to deal with the slings for up to 12 years? i know, we don't know the lifespan yet, but there is a chance. As someone said earlier, you never know what life will throw at you. But I guess the deed is done. I don't support it simply because I like purebred. When I get an Avic. avic, I want to know it is an Avic. avic (even though you usually don't). If everyone crossbreeds, we will end up with species names like this: Avicularia sp. versicolor, avicularia, peru purple, purpea, with a side of fries. Or we would end up with species like: Avicularia sp. ROYGBIV, Or, Avicularia sp. . That just seems stupid. You have no way of controlling where these slings go. If you get 100-200 slings, and you keep half of them, the other half go to a lab, or a "responsible dealer/supplier." Beyond that, they get given away or sold. Then they are bred. Then those slings go through the same process. In about a decade or so, Avicularia will no longer be a genus, it will be a species(although there already is an avicularia species). I know, I am just speculating, but not without my trusty friend, logic, who seems to be missing your the OP's situation. I guess all you can do now is hope there isn't a sack, or just take the sac really early and put it in the freezer. I don't want random Avics running around the hobby. I guess it is up to you though.

--Dan


----------



## Newflvr (Dec 16, 2010)

arachnidsrulz12 said:


> Did I say I brag and why would I want to crossbreed two different species
> 
> as again I said I don't like hybrid but found out interesting


I'll share with you what you have shared with others " Read the post before you make a reply". The person that was for replied, so arachnid? stop the chest thumpin no one pointed a finger at you.


----------



## John Apple (Dec 16, 2010)

I for one hope that this female completely destroys the male....rips him to shreds...and throws him out the door.....the simple fact that this thread was even started is really beyond me.....yeah more albogans anyone


----------



## malevolentrobot (Dec 16, 2010)

John Apple said:


> I for one hope that this female completely destroys the male....rips him to shreds...and throws him out the door.....the simple fact that this thread was even started is really beyond me.....yeah more albogans anyone


i was going to make a joke about inception and how once an idea is planted in someone's head... but i gave up, since this is a serious topic. especially since people have already shown interest in these non-accidentally created avic hybrids (shame on you for helping fuel this terrible idea).

it may not solve anything even if the female destroys the male. if this pairing doesn't work out, he's probably going to try with some other avics, since he's getting possible funding/help for his "project". 

right...


----------



## John Apple (Dec 16, 2010)

malevolentrobot said:


> i was going to make a joke about inception and how once an idea is planted in someone's head... but i gave up, since this is a serious topic. especially since people have already shown interest in these non-accidentally created avic hybrids (shame on you for helping fuel this terrible idea).
> 
> it may not solve anything even if the female destroys the male. if this pairing doesn't work out, he's probably going to try with some other avics, since he's getting possible funding/help for his "project".
> 
> right...


Probably...but we can all hope [st least in this instance] that he has the worst of luck....man I hope he does not have a male cat and a female dog   jeezzz


----------



## Anastasia (Dec 16, 2010)

John Apple said:


> Probably...but we can all hope [st least in this instance] that he has the worst of luck....man I hope he does not have a male cat and a female dog   jeezzz


when I was a little girl I had bunny humping my kitty pretty regularly
nothing happened 




darn it


----------



## xhexdx (Dec 16, 2010)

Anastasia said:


> darn it


Ha!

What would you call it?  A kunny?  A bitty? :}


----------



## Chris_Skeleton (Dec 16, 2010)

Once again, who is at Vanderbilt that would be interested? My guess is that you are making things up to justify your actions. Just like the other ten reasons you gave for doing this. You just keep adding and adding to it. It's kind of like how people cover lies up with more lies.

You also realize that it is sp. "Peru purple" which means it hasn't been narrowed down to single identifiable species right? Good job on screwing things up :clap:


----------



## Lorum (Dec 16, 2010)

Singapore_Blue1 said:


> I just want everyone here to know that my intentions are good


Maybe your intentions are good, but you obviously don't know about science at all. Anyway, you know a lot about having people's attention, don't you?



Poxicator said:


> We often see the argument "it happens in the wild" (...)


I totally agree with that post.



Silberrücken said:


> Closure of this thread, and permanently locked, that gets my vote. Anyone in agreement?


+1/2. You know, threads like this are a shame for science, for the hobby, etc. But, maybe threads like this help people to understand why crossbreeding is not a good idea (even when there will be always people who don't understand that, no matter what).


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## Singapore_Blue1 (Dec 16, 2010)

Chris_Skeleton said:


> Once again, who is at Vanderbilt that would be interested? My guess is that you are making things up to justify your actions. Just like the other ten reasons you gave for doing this. You just keep adding and adding to it. It's kind of like how people cover lies up with more lies.
> 
> You also realize that it is sp. "Peru purple" which means it hasn't been narrowed down to single identifiable species right? Good job on screwing things up :clap:


I am well aware that sp. Peru purple has not been narrowed down to a single identifiable species...Again I am not new to this and your assumptions and accusations (cause that is what they are) are rediculous. Second I see we live in the same state..I doubt you would be able to hold your ground in a face to face chat instead of behind that computer..You would quickly discover my experience level...And no there is no threat here so just to be clear on that..

---------- Post added at 10:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:44 PM ----------




John Apple said:


> I for one hope that this female completely destroys the male....rips him to shreds...and throws him out the door.....the simple fact that this thread was even started is really beyond me.....yeah more albogans anyone


I doubt that will happen bud...They bred in my lap....She was very receptive and both times the male was very intent on doing his deed...So your best luck would be that she lays a sack and its infertile..or never lays one at all...

---------- Post added at 10:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:49 PM ----------




John Apple said:


> Probably...but we can all hope [st least in this instance] that he has the worst of luck....man I hope he does not have a male cat and a female dog   jeezzz


Seriously????Talk about a drama queen


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## Arachnopets (Dec 16, 2010)

Yeah, I think we're done here ... 

Debby


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