# P. Irminia vs H. Maculata



## bscheidt1020 (Dec 17, 2014)

To those of you who keep these spiders or just are interested in these species, which one would you prefer to own and why? I am trying to decide as I just found out that mine are both males. I like both species for their looks but so far, my two are very reclusive. Does anybody have any ideas about comparison in temperament, which one is more likely to be visible, etc? Likewise, if you have ideas about a more visible and striking arboreal tarantula, feel free to make some recommendations. I am not interested in Avicularia though, nor spending more than $30-$40 on a spiderling. Thanks in advance and don't hesitate to share experiences and opinions!


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## problemchildx (Dec 17, 2014)

I've had P irminia before and she was really cool to look at when she was out. She was also VERY defensive and was my first T. I have not owned an H mac, but I really want one. If I were presented with the option I would definitely go with H mac.


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## Gpappy31 (Dec 18, 2014)

problemchildx said:


> I've had P irminia before and she was really cool to look at when she was out. She was also VERY defensive and was my first T. I have not owned an H mac, but I really want one. If I were presented with the option I would definitely go with H mac.


I just had a successful H maculata egg sac. They are cool but very defensive and quite fast.


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## BobGrill (Dec 18, 2014)

That's a tough one. Still, I'm gonna have to go with P.irminia.  Both are very high-strung species, and while the irminias don't like me disturbing their enclosures either, they at least are a lot less likely to bolt out of the tank like my female H.maculata when startled.


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## 14pokies (Dec 18, 2014)

H.macs are an advanced t because of there speed,aggression and venom potency..irminia is more for the intermediate keeper..they are just as fast as hmac pretty defensive but they lack the potency to there venom..although I hear vomiting is common with there bites..both hide a lot! Depending on your experience level I would suggest tapinauchenius sp..there super fast, some what defensive and have a mild/moderate bite...its a good species to consider if your into old world arboreal...I would rather make a mistake with a tapi then a poec or lampropelma....honestly I think h.Mac and s.cal( similar species) should only be kept after having a few years and species of arboreal under your belt..I would stick with irminia though the females are amazeing..

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## Ultum4Spiderz (Dec 18, 2014)

bscheidt1020 said:


> To those of you who keep these spiders or just are interested in these species, which one would you prefer to own and why? I am trying to decide as I just found out that mine are both males. I like both species for their looks but so far, my two are very reclusive. Does anybody have any ideas about comparison in temperament, which one is more likely to be visible, etc? Likewise, if you have ideas about a more visible and striking arboreal tarantula, feel free to make some recommendations. I am not interested in Avicularia though, nor spending more than $30-$40 on a spiderling. Thanks in advance and don't hesitate to share experiences and opinions!


Id get them both, Very cool both are reclusive P irminia more so.


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## BobGrill (Dec 18, 2014)

My female H.maculata goes for walks at night sometimes.  My irminias are almost always hiding.

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## bscheidt1020 (Dec 18, 2014)

Are we at all close to reaching a consensus that Hmac tends to be visible more than P. Irminia, or does anybody have any evidence to the contrary?


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## 14pokies (Dec 18, 2014)

BobGrill said:


> My female H.maculata goes for walks at night sometimes.  My irminias are almost always hiding.


 I have a 2 1/2 in male irminia that is always legs out of his hide and the hide itself is built up against the glass so I can kinda see in..I haven't seen my females in weeks!!! The one would come out once in a while...but its been about 3 weeks now...my interaction with them goes like this..feed wait for bolus,remove it..do this over and over..until they seal there burrow..wait about a week and a half until there burrow is open, offer food wait for bolus and molt at the opening..

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bscheidt1020 said:


> Are we at all close to reaching a consensus that Hmac tends to be visible more than P. Irminia, or does anybody have any evidence to the contrary?


well what were your specimens like? Did you see your h.Mac more or your irminia? Your the only tie breaker here.lol


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## problemchildx (Dec 18, 2014)

14pokies said:


> I have a 2 1/2 in male irminia that is always legs out of his hide and the hide itself is built up against the glass so I can kinda see in..I haven't seen my females in weeks!!! The one would come out once in a while...but its been about 3 weeks now...my interaction with them goes like this..feed wait for bolus,remove it..do this over and over..until they seal there burrow..wait about a week and a half until there burrow is open, offer food wait for bolus and molt at the opening..
> 
> ---------- Post added 12-18-2014 at 01:16 AM ----------
> 
> well what were your specimens like? Did you see your h.Mac more or your irminia? Your the only tie breaker here.lol


This is one of the reasons I don't like P irminia as much. They are quite stunning but don't blend in well to their natural habitat, which explains their secrecy. Granted, most OW arboreals do this but in my experience P irmimia does this more often.

Too bad I just bought some spiders. I'm gonna get a P camb, H mac, and other old worlds in the spring  
I want my slings to molt once or twice 

Also H maculata definitely is an advanced species and I think a person needs to really consider their reaction time before getting this species.

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## bscheidt1020 (Dec 18, 2014)

14pokies said:


> I have a 2 1/2 in male irminia that is always legs out of his hide and the hide itself is built up against the glass so I can kinda see in..I haven't seen my females in weeks!!! The one would come out once in a while...but its been about 3 weeks now...my interaction with them goes like this..feed wait for bolus,remove it..do this over and over..until they seal there burrow..wait about a week and a half until there burrow is open, offer food wait for bolus and molt at the opening..
> 
> ---------- Post added 12-18-2014 at 01:16 AM ----------
> 
> well what were your specimens like? Did you see your h.Mac more or your irminia? Your the only tie breaker here.lol


Yeah I suppose you are right! Mine were both ghosts...rarely seen. Both hid for months!!! I guess I was looking to see if those who have mature females have noticed any activity patterns with theirs... Dang, Psalmos are so fun to raise but I would like to see my spiders once in awhile....My OBT is out more often than both Hmac and P. Irminia combined....


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## Formerphobe (Dec 18, 2014)

IME, they are similarly reclusive and equally fast.  I raised a H. mac sling for 2.5 years.  I saw him a total of maybe 7 times - once when I unpacked him, once during rehousing, and the last time when I dug him out to ship.  The other times were random sightings.  I did hear him regularly at night doing laps of his enclosure.  Took me a few months to figure out who was waking me up at night sounding like a herd of elephants on my dresser.  He was easy to unpack as a sling, easy to rehouse, easy to dig out and pack for shipping.  More of a 'ostrich' response than either fight or flight.

I raised two female P. irminia slings from ~1.0 inch.  One was regularly visible up to about 4 inches.  The other stayed burrowed constantly.  I traded the burrower - the hardest packing job I've ever had.  She fought 'tooth and nail', striking, slapping, biting, spewing venom, wedging herself in the transfer funnel.  It was ugly.  She most likely would have fled had I given her opportunity.  (I'm told she walked out of the shipping vial on the other end like a little lamb...  Wench.)  Her formerly visible sac mate, since being rehoused in December 2013, has only been sighted a few times, and usually just her feet.

Six of one, half dozen of the other, and individuals will vary.

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## klawfran3 (Dec 18, 2014)

Ultum4Spiderz said:


> Id get them both, Very cool both are reclusive P irminia more so.




I just got 5 irminia slings about a month ago... I haven't seen one since. I know they're eating because the prekilled food is gone or turned in to a bolas, yet I have not seen a single one. 

To answer the question, I can't decide. They are both very pretty and each has their pluses/minuses. Why not get both? they're both pretty cheap too (about $15 a sling atm)
for you though, I recommend Irminia. If you have to decide whether you're ready or not for an Old world arboreal, you're not ready.

EDIT__ just realized you've owned both! I need to read things better haha

I would still go with irminia. On the off chance you actually see the spider, it will look marvelous.


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## IHeartTs (Dec 18, 2014)

My irminia is always out and so is one of my h macs.  The other one hides all day. It depends on the individual.  I haven't had my h macs long but my irminia can really be a witch. I think my h macs are faster but seemed to prefer hiding rather than darting out of the enclosure but I'm sure they'll be defensive at some point. I'm at a dead tie on them. But if you can only pick one, I'd say h mac.


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## awiec (Dec 18, 2014)

bscheidt1020 said:


> To those of you who keep these spiders or just are interested in these species, which one would you prefer to own and why? I am trying to decide as I just found out that mine are both males. I like both species for their looks but so far, my two are very reclusive. Does anybody have any ideas about comparison in temperament, which one is more likely to be visible, etc? Likewise, if you have ideas about a more visible and striking arboreal tarantula, feel free to make some recommendations. I am not interested in Avicularia though, nor spending more than $30-$40 on a spiderling. Thanks in advance and don't hesitate to share experiences and opinions!


Well if you want a more visible arboreal why not Tapinauchenius? When I was at the cross roads of between psalmo or taps I decided to go for the tap as I read they are generally more visible than psalmo. My T.gigas is out pretty much everyday and was a very reasonable $25 dollars and the rest of the genus is around $25-$40 as well so you won't be breaking the bank. The genus is known to be "neurotic" but if you take special considerations when housing them (they like larger cages) they aren't any more trouble to service than an avic or psalmo. Plus they are voracious eaters and grow rather fast, my female T.gigas is keeping pace with my male P.vitatta. As for your males I'd definitely try to get that P.irminia bred as they are striking in their own right and you have a larger pool of people willing to buy them as they are aren't pet rocks like roseas but don't have the nasty venom of the H.mac.

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## Poec54 (Dec 18, 2014)

awiec said:


> Well if you want a more visible arboreal why not Tapinauchenius?.


Because they're the Lamborghini's of the tarantula world.

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## awiec (Dec 18, 2014)

Poec54 said:


> Because they're the Lamborghini's of the tarantula world.


I thought that is what makes them fun? The OP already has raised an H.mac, a tap shouldn't be *too* much for them to handle.


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## Poec54 (Dec 18, 2014)

awiec said:


> I thought that is what makes them fun? The OP already has raised an H.mac, a tap shouldn't be *too* much for them to handle.


I have 35 species of arboreals, and I'm in no hurry to get a Tap.

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## bscheidt1020 (Dec 18, 2014)

Poec54 said:


> I have 35 species of arboreals, and I'm in no hurry to get a Tap.


If Poec54 is nervous about T. Gigas even with his background of keeping some hot snakes, I smell something fishy here...Poec, you trying to keep the Tapinauchenius genus to yourself bro? Just kidding, but how would you guys rate Poecilotheria in comparison to the previously mentioned species, as far as visibility and defensiveness and what not? I am mostly referring to P. Regalis and Vittata. T. Gigas has been borderline on my wishlist for awhile but this experience with Hmac and P. Irminia has me really appreciating my spiders that I see every morning while I get ready for work....love you Geniculata:love: Seriously, I appreciate all the recommendations and experiences, keep em coming, I think with y'alls help I might be able to make a decision.....trying to find a few slings to accompany the G. Pulchras I plan on ordering come spring....I have some time to work this thing out with you guys and gals since upstate NY is in the 20s and 30s these days. Oh, and my P. Irminia and H. Maculata were less than viscious. They really didnt do anything unpredictable to me....nary a burst of speed or more than a low legged threat pose. I did my best not to "worry" them and I think it worked.....MY little OBT I named "Fire Nugget," she put them both to shame with her acts of lunacy...unpacking her had me sweating from my forehead a bit...


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## cold blood (Dec 18, 2014)

problemchildx said:


> This is one of the reasons I don't like P irminia as much. They are quite stunning but don't blend in well to their natural habitat, which explains their secrecy.



Actually, in their "natural" habitat they blend in amazingly well.  The soil in that area is reddish-orange, just like the color the irminia sport.  Here's a quip from an arachnologists (Sam Marshall) personal experience with the species in the wild:

"I have seen suntiger tarantulas living in silken retreats along road banks in southern Venezuela near the Brazilian border.  At the time, I was struck with how closely the red marks of the spider matched the red of the earth."

My irminia female went 6 months without me seeing anything other than the front feet sticking out.  Then it recently came out, just before I re-housed.  When I did, I put it into a 32oz deli cup (spider is about 3.5"), and put a large piece of wood (that's orange) in the middle.  I was trying to figure out how it would adapt to a more arboreal enclosure.  The results have been most excellent as it has brought and webbed substrate up one of the sides. It now has a comfortable home there and I now have visibility 100% of the time.   I love seeing her, she's just a spectacular looking species.  Great eater, builder, easy to keep and a fast grower.  Psalmopeous is definitely a favorite genus for me.

My H. macs have only been with me for a short time, and they are still quite small, so I can't really speak of them.   Time will tell for me.

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## Medusa (Dec 18, 2014)

My H mac female is only partially visible at night with me shining a flashlight into her hide; P irminia is out more but not much. T gigas used to be out but has been hidden since the last couple of molts. I guess I give them too many places to hide. Even with a cork angled hide, they web up next to the glass and it reflects the flashlight.


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## Poec54 (Dec 18, 2014)

bscheidt1020 said:


> If Poec54 is nervous about T. Gigas even with his background of keeping some hot snakes, I smell something fishy here...Poec, you trying to keep the Tapinauchenius genus to yourself bro? Just kidding, but how would you guys rate Poecilotheria in comparison to the previously mentioned species, as far as visibility and defensiveness and what not? I am mostly referring to P. Regalis and Vittata. T. Gigas has been borderline on my wishlist for awhile but this experience with Hmac and P. Irminia has me really appreciating my spiders that I see every morning while I get ready for work....love you Geniculata


I'd go with geniculata if I were you.  Slings are cheap and they grow at a decent pace.  Colors and markings are spectacular and they're out in the open all the time.  Why get a smaller, secretive arboreal?  

Not nervous about Taps, just don't like chasing little brown spiders around the room.

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## gizmosdeath (Dec 18, 2014)

I don't know if anyone has recommended this yet but I have a P. Pulcher that comes out every time the light dims. It's an immature male and I get to see him every night and I think they are pretty awesome looking. I had a P. Irminia but never saw it out and I have an H. Mac and she rarely comes out of her hide but it's up against the glass so I can see here anytime. I haven't personally had my H. Mac bolt on me, she usually just stays nice and cozy in her hide when there's any disturbances. The Irminia was pretty defensive when it did come out but most of the time it hid in the farthest possible corner of it's hide. My next goal is to get a P. Cambridgei as I've always liked their color and patterns. I have no experience with Tapi's so can't really say anything there.

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## bscheidt1020 (Dec 18, 2014)

Gizmo, you just reminded me I was thinking about asking everyone what experiences they have with the other Psalmos, particularly Cambridgei and Pulcher. Are they out more, less defensive, etc.? I have a small Cambridgei sling that I am dreading the day when it decides to hide away forever. I do love the looks of P. Pulcher as well and would be open to any arboreals that might be out more, including Poecilotheria or Cyriopagopus. I am becoming more of a terrestrial guy but love the hunting that Psalmos do. I would like to keep a select arboreal species in my collection and would be psyched if it had a great appetite, great hunting, and also was out on a semi-regular basis.


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## Poec54 (Dec 18, 2014)

My cambridgei juveniles/adults are always out, and calm.  Youngsters are a bit zippy, but they outgrow that, and only run when you have your hands where they don't belong.  Irminia and pulcher are much shier.  Cyriopagopus & Lampropelma stay in their retreats most of the time; forget them as display spiders.

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## gizmosdeath (Dec 19, 2014)

Poec54 said:


> My cambridgei juveniles/adults are always out, and calm.  Youngsters are a bit zippy, but they outgrow that, and only run when you have your hands where they don't belong.  Irminia and pulcher are much shier.  Cyriopagopus & Lampropelma stay in their retreats most of the time; forget them as display spiders.


I also have a C. Schioedtei and an L. Violaceopes and both seem to have their own weird schedule. One week I'll see them out and about real active and the next they're hiding all the time. I sometimes see my Schioedtei early in the morning for a while and other times I don't. The other day I was watching my Violaceopes hanging outside her burrow and she stayed out the whole day and as soon as night fell she was gone again. With those two you never can tell but it's a real pleasure when I do see them. Honestly, because of their colors and pattern, I'm happy if see them a couple times a week. My Schioedtei is a fantastic hunter though so feeding time is always fun and interesting.

Like I said earlier though, my Pulcher is out every night unless a molt is incoming. He usually just hangs out on the side of the tank in full view. I received my Pulcher as a 1/4" sling in July of last year and he just hit 4" this last month so he grew pretty quick.


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## cold blood (Dec 19, 2014)

Poec54 said:


> My cambridgei juveniles/adults are always out, and calm.


+1  Prior to 3, 3.5" they do like to hide a lot.  But after that, mine are all out most of the time.  I love their look.:smile:

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## CEC (Dec 19, 2014)

cold blood said:


> +1  Prior to 3, 3.5" they do like to hide a lot.  But after that, mine are all out most of the time.  I love their look.:smile:


My AF is not very skittish either, she stands her ground. An easy arboreal species to show off.

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## Whaagh (Dec 19, 2014)

I have both the H. Mac and the P. Irminia.  My Irminia is a lot more "visible" than my H. Mac but on the other hand, my Irminia is a lot bigger then my H. Mac., but if i had to choose between the two... id go for the Irminia as its got such a awesome look to it and the venom is not as potent.


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## CEC (Dec 19, 2014)

Poec54 said:


> I have 35 species of arboreals, and I'm in no hurry to get a Tap.


Really? They are nothing you can't handle, don't underestimate yourself. 
There are some great species like my favorites subcaeruleus and sp. Colombia. I find most of the Taps attractive. I'm surprised you don't have any.


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## gobey (Dec 19, 2014)

I see my H. mac slings quite often really. They poke out and go for walks. And I've provided them with large hides that they webbed up good. Now granted I don't see them everyday. And boy do they hate seeing me. But they're not invisible. My larger one is out more often.

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## bscheidt1020 (Dec 19, 2014)

Yep, I saw my Hmac often when it was in a tall deli cup but since moving into its adult enclosure, it hides all the time. Same deal with the Irminia....


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## awiec (Dec 19, 2014)

CEC said:


> Really? They are nothing you can't handle, don't underestimate yourself.
> There are some great species like my favorites subcaeruleus and sp. Colombia. I find most of the Taps attractive. I'm surprised you don't have any.


I believe some time ago he said he might consider gigas but I generally know that poec isn't a fan of them  which they aren't for everyone, as he said they are generally small zippy spiders. But my experience with my female has been positive so I try to recommend them but always offer the warning that they can be a little crazy.


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## Poec54 (Dec 19, 2014)

CEC said:


> Really? They are nothing you can't handle, don't underestimate yourself.
> There are some great species like my favorites subcaeruleus and sp. Colombia. I find most of the Taps attractive. I'm surprised you don't have any.


It's not that I don't think I can deal with them (I have Stromatopelma), I'm just not convinced it's worth it.  The only one that temps me at this point is gigas.


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## CEC (Dec 19, 2014)

Poec54 said:


> It's not that I don't think I can deal with them (I have Stromatopelma), I'm just not convinced it's worth it.  The only one that temps me at this point is gigas.


Ok, that's not the way I read it. I didn't know you weren't a fan. 
Yes, gigas is a good one to start with, maybe then Taps will grow on you.


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## Storm76 (Dec 19, 2014)

I've yet to keep an H.mac but my P.irminia ladies are a joy to keep! Beautiful, yet require quite some respect with their usually defensive behavior. My couple are very different, one is pretty calm, the other straight from hell. I like both and would always suggest them as their contrast is hard to beat.


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## Poec54 (Dec 19, 2014)

CEC said:


> Ok, that's not the way I read it. I didn't know you weren't a fan.
> Yes, gigas is a good one to start with, maybe then Taps will grow on you.


I like the colors on gigas.  Rather than get other Tap species though (besides gigas), I'd rather have more Avics, and some Iridopelmas, Pachistopelmas, etc.


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## CEC (Dec 19, 2014)

Poec54 said:


> I like the colors on gigas.  Rather than get other Tap species though (besides gigas), I'd rather have more Avics, and some Iridopelmas, Pachistopelmas, etc.


Makes sense, gigas looks resemble Avics the most. I like those three genera more also, but I left a little room in my collection for Taps. I have most of the Avics I want that are in the hobby besides some new rare & expensive ones such as hirschii and sooretama. Iridopelma and Pachistopelma are my next two genera I want to dive into.


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## Poec54 (Dec 19, 2014)

CEC said:


> - Makes sense, gigas looks resemble Avics the most
> - I want that are in the hobby besides some new rare & expensive ones such as hirschii and sooretama. Iridopelma and Pachistopelma are my next two genera I want to dive into.


- I knew you could relate to that.
- You and me both.  Add Typhoclaena to that list too.

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## bscheidt1020 (Dec 20, 2014)

Storm76 said:


> I've yet to keep an H.mac but my P.irminia ladies are a joy to keep! Beautiful, yet require quite some respect with their usually defensive behavior. My couple are very different, one is pretty calm, the other straight from hell. I like both and would always suggest them as their contrast is hard to beat.


Storm, you have some of the nicest looking P. Irminia I have seen!!! How do you find them as far as visibility goes? I see my dang Haplopelma Hainanum more than my Hmac or Irminia and I can't say that makes me very happy...or enthusiastic about getting more of those species. I do not need to see a spider everyday, but it is nice to know you will see em fairly regularly, even if it is an absurd hour of the night. Thanks to my OBTs for being antisocial but also visible on a regular basis. Some nights I walk in and my orange demon is hanging on the wall of her enclosure showing off......I would like a spider with striking markings that is a great hunter and is visible semi-consistently....not necessarily often, just reliably.

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## Tballs (Dec 20, 2014)

I have both P. Irminia and H. Mac, both are females that I got as 1/4" slings 9 months ago. The P. Irminia is now 4" and the H. Mac is just barely pushing 2". Psamopoues are faster growing between the two. My P. Irminia is calm and is out almost always. It doesn't dart when disturbed unlike my H. Mac that is extremely nervous and skittish and dashes at the slightest vibration. My H. Mac is quite reclusive hiding for months at a time. Its reclusiveness is always followed by a week or two of it always being out in the open. It's quite interesting behaviour. If I had to pick only one I would pick P. Irminia because it's a great eater and gets its adult colouration a lot earlier in life. (Mature female H. Macs are stunning though)


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## CEC (Dec 20, 2014)

Poec54 said:


> - I knew you could relate to that.
> - You and me both.  Add Typhoclaena to that list too.


Pachistopelma with those unique colorful flattened abdomens are something else.
Don't tease me with Typhoclaena!


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## Poec54 (Dec 20, 2014)

CEC said:


> Pachistopelma with those unique colorful flattened abdomens are something else.
> Don't tease me with Typhoclaena!


I'm hoping that in my lifetime we'll see these regularly in this country.

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## David VB (Dec 20, 2014)

I have both H. mac and P. irminia. 3 juvenile H. mac's and 5 slings of P. irminia actually. I see both species all the time, but both are very skittish and hide whenever i come close with light or touch their enclosure. Although the irminia's mostly (4 out of the 5) always come and see if there is anything to eat  I love both of them, they look stunning. So, my suggestion would be to get them both

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## DVMT (Dec 20, 2014)

I'd like to say Psalmopeus pulcher needs to be added to this conversation.  I have 3, all around 3-4", and IMO they seem like a great alternative to either of the aforementioned species.  Don't get me wrong, I have 2 T. gigas and 1 MF H mac and I love them all.  The P pulcher are NW, beautiful, feisty eaters, always on display, and all 3 of mine have a very calm demeanor.  How can you go wrong here?  Well, I'm done with my glorification of said species.  Time to leave the soap box!

Damon

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## bscheidt1020 (Dec 20, 2014)

David VB said:


> I have both H. mac and P. irminia. 3 juvenile H. mac's and 5 slings of P. irminia actually. I see both species all the time, but both are very skittish and hide whenever i come close with light or touch their enclosure. Although the irminia's mostly (4 out of the 5) always come and see if there is anything to eat  I love both of them, they look stunning. So, my suggestion would be to get them both


I figure I will eventually get both but for now I am trying to expand on my terrestrials primarily and if I am going to get a few arboreals, it would be sweet if I would see em out roaming or hunting on occasion....my Hmac hid for months at one point surrounding a molt and did not come out again until after I moved some of his webbing to see if he was ok...Currently my Irminia shows me his legs now and again but I really only know he comes out because of the poop on the walls! So far, based on everybody's feedback and some research I have done, it seems my best bet would be P. Cambridgei. To all of you Pokie lovers, how do you find them with regard to visibility compared to Hmac and P. Irminia? I am primarily interested in P. Regalis, Vittata, Subfusca Highland, and possibly Miranda! Thanks again for everybody's input on this subject and for entertaining my curiosity!

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DamonVikki said:


> I'd like to say Psalmopeus pulcher needs to be added to this conversation.  I have 3, all around 3-4", and IMO they seem like a great alternative to either of the aforementioned species.  Don't get me wrong, I have 2 T. gigas and 1 MF H mac and I love them all.  The P pulcher are NW, beautiful, feisty eaters, always on display, and all 3 of mine have a very calm demeanor.  How can you go wrong here?  Well, I'm done with my glorification of said species.  Time to leave the soap box!
> 
> Damon


Valuable information you shared DamonVikki!!! I love how Pulcher looks. While not the striking pattern of Hmac or P. Irminia, they are stunning in their own right! Have you had other specimens prior that support that they tend to remain visible?


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## DVMT (Dec 20, 2014)

bscheidt1020 said:


> Valuable information you shared DamonVikki!!! I love how Pulcher looks. While not the striking pattern of Hmac or P. Irminia, they are stunning in their own right! Have you had other specimens prior that support that they tend to remain visible?


Just these 3. I have raised 2 of them from slings and throughout their lives they have been out around 90% of the time.  I know results may vary, but I'm thinking they may be more like the cambridgei in this way versus the irminia, as said before, prefer to hide more often.  Also, I gotta tell you, as with many species photos don't do these guys justice.  They appear to have a much brighter orange to the naked eye.  The black velvety abdomens and emerald hue to the carapace make this species quite a stunner in my opinon.

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## MrsHaas (Dec 20, 2014)

Loving this post, these are my husbands two favorite tarantulas...


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## cold blood (Dec 20, 2014)

DamonVikki said:


> I'd like to say Psalmopeus pulcher needs to be added to this conversation.  I have 3, all around 3-4", and IMO they seem like a great alternative to either of the aforementioned species.  Don't get me wrong, I have 2 T. gigas and 1 MF H mac and I love them all.  The P pulcher are NW, beautiful, feisty eaters, always on display, and all 3 of mine have a very calm demeanor.  How can you go wrong here?  Well, I'm done with my glorification of said species.  Time to leave the soap box!
> 
> Damon


I love the entire Psalmo genus, but by far my favorite looking is one I don't yet have, and its that pulcher.   The entire genus looks great, but there's something about those pulchers that I really like.

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## Poec54 (Dec 20, 2014)

cold blood said:


> I love the entire Psalmo genus, but by far my favorite looking is one I don't yet have, and its that pulcher.   The entire genus looks great, but there's something about those pulchers that I really like.


The whole genus is great.  I just got slings of my 4th species (reduncus), and am looking for the others.  Emeraldus and victorii are at the top of my Psalmo 'want list.'  Psalmos have a mix of OW and NW characteristics, and for a while were put in an OW subfamily or two (they appear to have some similarities with Poecilotheria).  Taxonomists still aren't in agreement as to what subfamily they belong in.  I don't think they're a good fit in Aviculariinae, as those have urticating hairs.

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## cold blood (Dec 20, 2014)

Poec54 said:


> The whole genus is great.  I just got slings of my 4th species (reduncus), and am looking for the others.  Emeraldus and victorii are at the top of my Psalmo 'want list.'  Psalmos have a mix of OW and NW characteristics, and for a while were put in an OW subfamily or two (they appear to have some similarities with Poecilotheria).  Taxonomists still aren't in agreement as to what subfamily they belong in.  I don't think they're a good fit in Aviculariinae, as those have urticating hairs.


Emeraldus is another stunner, and victorii is one of the neatest looking t's I've ever had....when I said pulcher were the best looking, I was referring to the more available ones, victorii looks AMAZING, but I haven't actually heard of them in the us hobby yet.

The genus very much does have an old world "feel" (both in how they look and actions/way of life) and for living in the new world, are rather unique within it.   I'll be interested to see where their final classification lies.

Reduncus, eh?...nice!

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## CEC (Dec 20, 2014)

cold blood said:


> victorii is one of the neatest looking t's I've ever had....


You owned a victorii? How'd you pull that off? ;P

I like P. ecclesiasticus also.

P. reduncus are truely underrated.

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## cold blood (Dec 20, 2014)

CEC said:


> You owned a victorii? How'd you pull that off? ;P
> 
> I like P. ecclesiasticus also.
> 
> P. reduncus are truely underrated.


Holy mis-typed batman....no, never owned one, only seen a couple pics.  That most certainly should have read "seen" and not "had".   

I wish Chase, I wish.:smile:

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## Storm76 (Dec 20, 2014)

bscheidt1020 said:


> Storm, you have some of the nicest looking P. Irminia I have seen!!! How do you find them as far as visibility goes? I see my dang Haplopelma Hainanum more than my Hmac or Irminia and I can't say that makes me very happy...or enthusiastic about getting more of those species. I do not need to see a spider everyday, but it is nice to know you will see em fairly regularly, even if it is an absurd hour of the night. Thanks to my OBTs for being antisocial but also visible on a regular basis. Some nights I walk in and my orange demon is hanging on the wall of her enclosure showing off......I would like a spider with striking markings that is a great hunter and is visible semi-consistently....not necessarily often, just reliably.


Let's see. "Phaedra" is very reclusive, but usually out late at night for a few hours. Pretty much daily, though she goes through phases during which she stays hidden. "Firali" in comparison I can see often, since her cage-setup is top.opening and she usually sits either behind her corkbark, or ontop of it. So bottom-line: I can see at least one of mine daily. They are secretive, but not to the point of a pethole.

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## bscheidt1020 (Dec 20, 2014)

MrsHaas said:


> Loving this post, these are my husbands two favorite tarantulas...


These two species(Hmac and P Irminia) are what brought me to this hobby...I looked, I said wow, I caught the bug....completely contradicts the image most have of tarantulas as big brown spiders...though I do like the big brown ones too!!!

---------- Post added 12-20-2014 at 08:57 PM ----------

Alright Storm, maybe I will keep trying with the Irminias and try to pay attention to cage designs to increase my chance of viewing...I love everything about Psalmopoeus Irminia except the visibility factor....I have many OW species that I see more often than the Suntiger. Hmac was my favorite species for awhile but it just was not out enough for me to develop a further interest and species like the OBT took over as my must have baboon since they are bold enough to venture out on a regular basis...though mine just sealed off her hide..I think she has a full tummy.


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## problemchildx (Dec 20, 2014)

Did you consider another Psalmo? I think P cambridgei is out way more often than irminia. Rather than having to deal with an H maculata, if you already like the Psalmopoeus genus why not collect them all?

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## cold blood (Dec 20, 2014)

problemchildx said:


> Did you consider another Psalmo? I think P cambridgei is out way more often than irminia. Rather than having to deal with an H maculata, if you already like the Psalmopoeus genus why not collect them all?


+1  For as fast as my irminia grew, the cambridgei grew faster.  For as good of an eater as irminia have been, the cambridgei were even better.   P. cam's were a bit reclusive until about 3" or so, they were out A LOT more then irminia.  Now the irminia is over 3", and still likes to hide (just re-housed and I now have a clear view), but the P. cams are almost always out, hiding under the plants, under the wood slab I have with each of them, and most often right on top of that wood.  I couldn't have a better view.   The 5" female is always in view.

This is what I see when I look at my juveniles.

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## problemchildx (Dec 20, 2014)

Yeah I really like them a lot. Definitely coming in my next batch of spiders.

Edit: Also P. reduncus is cool


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## Ultum4Spiderz (Dec 20, 2014)

Poec54 said:


> The whole genus is great.  I just got slings of my 4th species (reduncus), and am looking for the others.  Emeraldus and victorii are at the top of my Psalmo 'want list.'  Psalmos have a mix of OW and NW characteristics, and for a while were put in an OW subfamily or two (they appear to have some similarities with Poecilotheria).  Taxonomists still aren't in agreement as to what subfamily they belong in.  I don't think they're a good fit in Aviculariinae, as those have urticating hairs.


Yeah they act much more like my Pokies, IMO. I need a new Psalmopoeus cambridgei.:biggrin:


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## bscheidt1020 (Dec 21, 2014)

problemchildx said:


> Did you consider another Psalmo? I think P cambridgei is out way more often than irminia. Rather than having to deal with an H maculata, if you already like the Psalmopoeus genus why not collect them all?


Just trying to get a bead on an arboreal species I may see more often then Hmac or P. Irminia I guess...since they seem to hide for months at a time sometimes! I am raising a little P. Cambridgei right now and she is awesome! Hoping she will stay out in the open frequently as she grows...I might get another P. Cambridgei and maybe Pulcher too!


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## bscheidt1020 (Dec 22, 2014)

Ultum4Spiderz said:


> Yeah they act much more like my Pokies, IMO. I need a new Psalmopoeus cambridgei.:biggrin:


When you say that they act more like your Pokies, what do you mean? I do not have any Poecilotheria currently and am curious how they compare!!


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## Poec54 (Dec 22, 2014)

bscheidt1020 said:


> When you say that they act more like your Pokies, what do you mean? I do not have any Poecilotheria currently and am curious how they compare!!


Psalmos look and behave more like Poecs than Avics.  The Avic group is the oddballs of the arboreal world.

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## problemchildx (Dec 22, 2014)

Poec54 said:


> Psalmos look and behave more like Poecs than Avics.  The Avic group is the oddballs of the arboreal world.


I agree, that's why it is so rewarding to have a few Avicularia species. Old world arboreals have many of the same characteristics, including Psalmopoeus. Avics are just so unique!

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## bscheidt1020 (Dec 22, 2014)

I guess what I am wondering is...are Pokies equally as reclusive/defensive/skittish as P. Irminia and H. Maculata? How else do Poecilotheria generally differ than these in your(all of you) experience?


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## BobGrill (Dec 22, 2014)

bscheidt1020 said:


> I guess what I am wondering is...are Pokies equally as reclusive/defensive/skittish as P. Irminia and H. Maculata? How else do Poecilotheria generally differ than these in your(all of you) experience?


No irminia are often downright defensive where as pokies are normally super skittish but not defensive like psalmos can be.

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## awiec (Dec 23, 2014)

bscheidt1020 said:


> I guess what I am wondering is...are Pokies equally as reclusive/defensive/skittish as P. Irminia and H. Maculata? How else do Poecilotheria generally differ than these in your(all of you) experience?


From what I've read and seen from my own pokies is that they are generally more visible even if they are skittish. Though I have a pokie that is as close to aggressive I've ever seen a spider, it knows you're there and will come out and give poses like crazy. Very inspiring to see a little 1.75 inch spider stand up to you.


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## Storm76 (Dec 23, 2014)

bscheidt1020 said:


> These two species(Hmac and P Irminia) are what brought me to this hobby...I looked, I said wow, I caught the bug....completely contradicts the image most have of tarantulas as big brown spiders...though I do like the big brown ones too!!!
> 
> Alright Storm, maybe I will keep trying with the Irminias and try to pay attention to cage designs to increase my chance of viewing...I love everything about Psalmopoeus Irminia except the visibility factor....I have many OW species that I see more often than the Suntiger. Hmac was my favorite species for awhile but it just was not out enough for me to develop a further interest and species like the OBT took over as my must have baboon since they are bold enough to venture out on a regular basis...though mine just sealed off her hide..I think she has a full tummy.


Psalmopoeus irminia was what eventually convinced me that I -had- to get into the hobby, too. IMHO they're one of the most beautiful arboreals to keep. I don't care that P. metallica or L. violaceopes are extremely beautiful too - the contrast on P. irminia is hard to beat. Not saying I don't like the mentioned T's less, but the Suntigers just have something about them...don't know. 



problemchildx said:


> Did you consider another Psalmo? I think P cambridgei is out way more often than irminia. Rather than having to deal with an H maculata, if you already like the Psalmopoeus genus why not collect them all?


I can confirm that, my Psalmopoeus cambridgei is generally way more often out, less secretive for the most part. However, that said, she went through long phases during which she hardly ever showed up. It really, really depends on the specimen. I'd say you have "bigger chances for a more bold cambridgei sitting often in visibility", but I wouldn't go as far as describing them generally as less secretive. No Psalm I have / had was ever really "outgoing", all of them are / were secretive and it simply is something people need to accept before getting them. It's an awesome genus, nevertheless!



bscheidt1020 said:


> When you say that they act more like your Pokies, what do you mean? I do not have any Poecilotheria currently and am curious how they compare!!


I'm not saying I have tons of experience with Poecies like Poec54 has, but from what I've seen of those of friends and those I kept / keep now, they're very similiar in terms of behavior. I still stand by my observation that P. subfusca "lowland" seemingly is one of the calmest species in their genus, though. Reason being that I raised one myself from sling to adult and have seen plenty at friends that all fall into the same behavioral pattern. Obviously, temperaments vary, but with these chances are they have a high tolerance for disturbance once juvenile/adult. My P. fasciata is so far the most defensive I've kept myself and befriended keepers here regards them generally as pretty high strung and easy to annoy. P. miranda is skittish, but not much of a fighter unless cornered or in a really bad mood apparently (again, based on the couple I keep as well as those I saw over here) while the rest of them are seemingly hit and miss. Noteworthy is that P. metallica, despite their beautiful looks, is certainly one of the most skittish and prone to bolt along with ornata - from what I've witnessed. Not sure how much you'd agree to that observation Poec, but this is just my personal opinion.

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## problemchildx (Dec 23, 2014)

I've only had a few pokies but based on my experiences with them they aren't very defensive. My buddy had a HUGE MF P. regalis that was pretty defensive, but I've heard they are supposed to be calm. But in general, they are often out on display when they think they are safe. P metallica are supposed to be more photo sensitive than other species, which I can agree with because my metallica will sometimes run into the hide when I walk by the enclosure. But she is just skittish, nothing more. Never a threat display and rehousing has always been a piece of cake. I had a P miranda once that was also this way. So I would treat them with respect due to the "potent" venom, they are OW but are beautiful and fascinating and I feel like every experienced keeper should have a few.

The P irminia I had was one of the only spiders that truly scared me.

But I totally agree with Storm, it all boils down to the specimen's personality. Have any of you seen some of the handling videos on YT? Some of them actually gave me nightmares...


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## Storm76 (Dec 23, 2014)

problemchildx said:


> The P irminia I had was one of the only spiders that truly scared me. But I totally agree with Storm, it all boils down to the specimen's personality.


Scared? Why? I'm surprised about that statement while posting you keep Poecies tbh


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## problemchildx (Dec 23, 2014)

Storm76 said:


> Scared? Why? I'm surprised about that statement while posting you keep Poecies tbh


Because it was my first T, and she was actually aggressive. Usually I use the term defensive. But no, recalling her behavior, she would run around the tank in circles striking and spewing venom everywhere. Totally freaked me out as a new T keeper.
I have owned several OWs including OBTs but never saw one as crazy as her!


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## Storm76 (Dec 23, 2014)

problemchildx said:


> Because it was my first T, and she was actually aggressive. Usually I use the term defensive. But no, recalling her behavior, she would run around the tank in circles striking and spewing venom everywhere. Totally freaked me out as a new T keeper.
> I have owned several OWs including OBTs but never saw one as crazy as her!


Oddball? Never ever seen a T "run around the tank in circles striking and spewing venom everywhere"...that coming from someone that started with a 3" female into the hobby.


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## problemchildx (Dec 23, 2014)

Storm76 said:


> Oddball? Never ever seen a T "run around the tank in circles striking and spewing venom everywhere"...that coming from someone that started with a 3" female into the hobby.


I'm not saying that this is normal for this species or most Ts. She didn't do this often, but at least a few times while I had her. 

Either way, that's exactly what she did. Wouldn't lie about that.


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## Poec54 (Dec 23, 2014)

Storm76 said:


> Oddball? Never ever seen a T "run around the tank in circles striking and spewing venom everywhere"...that coming from someone that started with a 3" female into the hobby.


I've had a few juvenile Lampropelma violaceopes do laps on the sides of their cages at 90 miles an hour (or so it seemed).


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## cold blood (Dec 23, 2014)

Poec54 said:


> I've had a few juvenile Lampropelma violaceopes do laps on the sides of their cages at 90 miles an hour (or so it seemed).


They were just testing their lateral grip....like a ferrarri on the skidpad....wonder how many g's a t can pull?

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## bscheidt1020 (Dec 24, 2014)

problemchildx said:


> I've only had a few pokies but based on my experiences with them they aren't very defensive. My buddy had a HUGE MF P. regalis that was pretty defensive, but I've heard they are supposed to be calm. But in general, they are often out on display when they think they are safe. P metallica are supposed to be more photo sensitive than other species, which I can agree with because my metallica will sometimes run into the hide when I walk by the enclosure. But she is just skittish, nothing more. Never a threat display and rehousing has always been a piece of cake. I had a P miranda once that was also this way. So I would treat them with respect due to the "potent" venom, they are OW but are beautiful and fascinating and I feel like every experienced keeper should have a few.
> 
> The P irminia I had was one of the only spiders that truly scared me.
> 
> But I totally agree with Storm, it all boils down to the specimen's personality. Have any of you seen some of the handling videos on YT? Some of them actually gave me nightmares...


I have seen some videos of people handling Pokies, Hmac, S. Calceatum, and a picture of a person with a Pokie in his mouth...idiot. I saw a picture of a person with a Sicarius sp. in their hand too...double idiot.

---------- Post added 12-24-2014 at 01:41 AM ----------

I think I will have to stick with my Psalmos and see what kind of behavior I get...goes for Hmac too. I figure if I was so drawn to them to start up this hobby, I should at least raise and care for an adult female or two of each and let that experience decide whether their habit of hiding most of them time turns me off from getting more down the road....thanks everybody for your input and entertaining another one of my "VS." posts!!

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## Ultum4Spiderz (Dec 24, 2014)

problemchildx said:


> I've only had a few pokies but based on my experiences with them they aren't very defensive. My buddy had a HUGE MF P. regalis that was pretty defensive, but I've heard they are supposed to be calm. But in general, they are often out on display when they think they are safe. P metallica are supposed to be more photo sensitive than other species, which I can agree with because my metallica will sometimes run into the hide when I walk by the enclosure. But she is just skittish, nothing more. Never a threat display and rehousing has always been a piece of cake. I had a P miranda once that was also this way. So I would treat them with respect due to the "potent" venom, they are OW but are beautiful and fascinating and I feel like every experienced keeper should have a few.
> 
> The P irminia I had was one of the only spiders that truly scared me.
> 
> But I totally agree with Storm, it all boils down to the specimen's personality. Have any of you seen some of the handling videos on YT? Some of them actually gave me nightmares...


+1 it all boils down to the specimen's personality as you said. I got 1  Aphonopelma & Other new worlds who are more defensive than most if not all  my pokies, That does not mean lots of pokies will not defend there home. Aphonopelma anax Loved to bite, not docile but way smaller than a big pokie. My P ornata is way bigger 7.5" and occasionally shows threat displays but given its home is big it would rather run laps than attack me.

Id get both H mac & irminia again if I didn't already keep them.

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## BobGrill (Dec 24, 2014)

bscheidt1020 said:


> I have seen some videos of people handling Pokies, Hmac, S. Calceatum, and a picture of a person with a Pokie in his mouth...idiot. I saw a picture of a person with a Sicarius sp. in their hand too...double idiot.
> 
> ---------- Post added 12-24-2014 at 01:41 AM ----------
> 
> I think I will have to stick with my Psalmos and see what kind of behavior I get...goes for Hmac too. I figure if I was so drawn to them to start up this hobby, I should at least raise and care for an adult female or two of each and let that experience decide whether their habit of hiding most of them time turns me off from getting more down the road....thanks everybody for your input and entertaining another one of my "VS." posts!!


Some guy on YouTube left a comment on a video by Jon3800 saying that every time he tries to handle his H.maculata,  it bolts up his arm and he ends up having to chase it around the room. There was another person who said you should never own a poec, because their regalis bit them when they attempted to pick it up. Not only that,  but he continued to handle it after suffering the symptoms,  and it bit him again. I don't get it.

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## Poec54 (Dec 24, 2014)

BobGrill said:


> Some guy on YouTube left a comment on a video by Jon3800 saying that every time he tries to handle his H.maculata,  it bolts up his arm and he ends up having to chase it around the room. There was another person who said you should never own a poec, because their regalis bit them when they attempted to pick it up. Not only that,  but he continued to handle it after suffering the symptoms,  and it bit him again. I don't get it.



The world will never run out of idiots.

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## bscheidt1020 (Dec 24, 2014)

BobGrill said:


> Some guy on YouTube left a comment on a video by Jon3800 saying that every time he tries to handle his H.maculata,  it bolts up his arm and he ends up having to chase it around the room. There was another person who said you should never own a poec, because their regalis bit them when they attempted to pick it up. Not only that,  but he continued to handle it after suffering the symptoms,  and it bit him again. I don't get it.


Woooooooooooow. Wow. I would think if you had enough interest in tarantulas to get a species like a pokie or Hmac, you would also go ahead and do enough research to know not to handle it, much less put it in your mouth. I personally am not into this hobby for an adrenaline rush. I have plenty of hobbies and activities that get my energy out, the last thing I want to do is chase spiders around or get wailed on by one....I do like playing catch with my Genic though.

---------- Post added 12-24-2014 at 04:43 PM ----------




Poec54 said:


> The world will never run out of idiots.


Certainly not. Part of what makes humans different than animals is that we take care of our idiots.:sarcasm:

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## Poec54 (Dec 24, 2014)

bscheidt1020 said:


> Part of what makes humans different than animals is that we take care of our idiots.


'Take care of'?  The track record on that is nothing to brag about: brutal insane asylums and now they're on the streets homeless.  I don't know that we're much better than the other primates.   

The biggest threat to the hobby is thrill seekers.  They'll move on to the next adrenaline rush after spiders get banned.  Doesn't make nay difference to them.  We lose out.


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## BobGrill (Dec 24, 2014)

I don't think he was being serious.


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## Storm76 (Dec 24, 2014)

Poec54 said:


> I've had a few juvenile Lampropelma violaceopes do laps on the sides of their cages at 90 miles an hour (or so it seemed).


The doing laps wasn't what made me say that, the "spewing venom everywhere" was what got my attention, mate.

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## Ultum4Spiderz (Dec 25, 2014)

Poec54 said:


> 'Take care of'?  The track record on that is nothing to brag about: brutal insane asylums and now they're on the streets homeless.  I don't know that we're much better than the other primates.
> 
> The biggest threat to the hobby is thrill seekers.  They'll move on to the next adrenaline rush after spiders get banned.  Doesn't make nay difference to them.  We lose out.


+1 Yeah Rome & all ancient cultures actually exterminated the deformed children I think.... Modern culture is a lot nicer to them.  Modern diet however is very toxic and causes the extreme amount of cancers, and other diseases, toxins are in every range of household products often enough. Two examples of these are aluminum in deodorant, and fluoride in foods, water, toothpaste.
These toxins could cause normal people to turn crazy.

Thrill seekers generally are why Exotic pets get banned, or crazies who let them all free....or get eaten by them.

---------- Post added 12-25-2014 at 02:10 AM ----------




Poec54 said:


> The world will never run out of idiots.


+1 Very true, Snake handling cults of deadly rattle snakes is prob the dumbest thing I have heard of. TV (the idiot box) has stuff like this on daily though, there are some good shows rarely. Generally I do not ever watch cable TV.


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## bscheidt1020 (Dec 25, 2014)

Poec54 said:


> 'Take care of'?  The track record on that is nothing to brag about: brutal insane asylums and now they're on the streets homeless.  I don't know that we're much better than the other primates.
> 
> The biggest threat to the hobby is thrill seekers.  They'll move on to the next adrenaline rush after spiders get banned.  Doesn't make nay difference to them.  We lose out.


Poec, you never seen a dude collecting government checks for some sort of bogus disability and then get better health care than a college kid thats working and going to school? Meanwhile the same homeless dude got new jordans on and the newest iphone! Most "idiots" in the animal kingdom get killed....if our system is brutal, natural selection is downright savage and sadistic. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to everyone!!!


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