# Aboreal snake question for ATB, ETB, and GTP



## whitewolf (Mar 24, 2010)

I have been considering for some time either an Amazon Tree Boa, an Emerald Tree Boa, or a Green Tree Python. I'm still doing my homework but just thought I'd ask some keepers their opinions of the three. Now while all three could be handled I don't plain on handling it. I'd like to have a nice happy display over something I take out and play with. I'm more looking at and considering a neonate or juvie over an adult because I'd like to watch it grow up and continue learning about it over breeding. Maybe one day I'll breed reptiles but right now I'm just not that fascinated in it. I thought about using my modified Exo or building something else. I have an Exo with a bunch of tree frogs that is right on target for care of all three and the one next to it really isn't being used. It wont last too long as it grows but I'm not sure if I will even use it. Price really isn't the big concern. The big concern is killing it for the price. Also about what size hook do you guys recommend I need one anyway for a pissy King that hates hands in her tank. Out is fine in it is a witch. 

Opinions, concerns, and/or advice?

Amazon Tree Boa: Basically from reading I gather they are more hardy and cheaper. But sadly I'm not crazy about color. I did kinda liked the Halloween phase till I read they grow out of it and grow into a normal color. :wall:

Emerald Tree Boa: Just plain pretty going from yellow to green. Finding a neonate or juvie hasn't proved easy though. I found one fairly close to the size I want at 18" and looks like it stuck it's nose in yellow paint. LOL. I can't find neonates are at least smaller though. 

Green Tree Python: I am absolutely nuts about the yellow and red neonates even though they grow out of it, but read they are more delicate.


----------



## Cowin8579 (Mar 24, 2010)

A Emerald tree boa or Green Tree python are tough to raise.  If they are WC adults with internal issues, it will take an act of god for you to keep them alive over time.  

I know a breeder of green tree pythons, and I've seen him attempt to get the whole lot of them to feed on pinkies and they all refused.  Lizards might be taken more easily.. 

But anyway, many of the keepers sell for decent$, and often you can get a cheaper price on them if the snake isn't guaranteed to eat.  Know what I mean?  If the snake never eats and ends up dying, you are out the cost of the animals.  

I would go Amazon, and hopefully not wc.  there should be enough colors that you can find close to what you are looking for?  You could also look at vine snakes?  But they can be tricky as well.  

If I had more time and space, I might consider a brown tree snake.. which is mildly venomous.


----------



## whitewolf (Mar 24, 2010)

Pretty much anything I get would have to be captive bred. Looking at breeders sites to hopefully avoid wild caught. Taking my time going with quality over the price. I do worry about ending up with a stubborn eater though.

Any venomous is out for now. Between city ordinance and my kids are too involved with everything I do. Granted I am grateful my daughter isn't scared and enjoys being down in the herp room but getting her out is more a pain than keeping her in and teaching what is is allowed and not allowed to get close too.


----------



## reverendsterlin (Mar 24, 2010)

ATB is a much hardier animal


----------



## Gekkotan (Mar 24, 2010)

Why dont you get a red/orange or yellow ATB?


----------



## whitewolf (Mar 24, 2010)

Gekkotan said:


> Why dont you get a red/orange or yellow ATB?


Now see that is pretty. Everything I keep finding is labeled "garden" or "Halloween". I would rather get the ATB for hardiness but finding a real looker in the size I want is the big hick up. Google gives me more care sheets than anything. I mean granted I know colors fade and change but I do wanna look in the tank and go wow. Then when I do see one I like it says SOLD. :wall:


----------



## jayefbe (Mar 24, 2010)

This breeder has the most amazing ATBs around.  Truly outstanding.  Also very expensive and hard to get.  I'm sure if you asked, you might be able to get on a waiting list for this years offspring.

http://www.ghireptiles.com/

When it comes to GTPs, they have a bad reputation for being difficult to care for.  Enough progress has been made that keeping a CB GTP can be easily done by any snake keeper willing to put in the effort.  Purchase the complete chondro by Greg Maxwell, read it through and you'll be ready for your own neonate GTP.  Just make sure you buy a CB snake that is already an established feeder.  Also, buy directly from a breeder.  The vast majority of neo GTPs are CH imports.  They are much cheaper but also aren't guaranteed to be feeding.  Breeding GTPs is still a difficult endeavor with a high failure percentage, but just keeping one as a pet is no longer difficult.


----------



## whitewolf (Mar 24, 2010)

jayefbe said:


> Purchase the complete chondro by Greg Maxwell, read it through and you'll be ready for your own neonate GTP.


I have been on his site for like 2 days just reading on his site, with a few books on order but I just saw where he is no longer breeding, selling, and making cages. Man, figures. LOL. Thanks for all the info guys. Putting it on hold even longer till I finish these. Appreciate all the input too.


----------



## dirty munky (Mar 24, 2010)

I have all three species the GTP is my favorite but all have been fairly easy to maintain. Buy CB and you should have no problem feeding f/t mice or rats. The most important thing is humidity I mist every morning allowing the cage to dry during the day to prevent mold growth and provide a large h20 bowl and you should be fine. GTPs should be fed smaller meals to prevent prolapse other than that they all make great additions to any collection. All of mine can be held but get nippy every once in a while.


----------



## bitzy1 (Mar 24, 2010)

whitewolf said:


> I have been considering for some time either an Amazon Tree Boa, an Emerald Tree Boa, or a Green Tree Python. I'm still doing my homework but just thought I'd ask some keepers their opinions of the three. Now while all three could be handled I don't plain on handling it. I'd like to have a nice happy display over something I take out and play with. I'm more looking at and considering a neonate or juvie over an adult because I'd like to watch it grow up and continue learning about it over breeding. Maybe one day I'll breed reptiles but right now I'm just not that fascinated in it. I thought about using my modified Exo or building something else. I have an Exo with a bunch of tree frogs that is right on target for care of all three and the one next to it really isn't being used. It wont last too long as it grows but I'm not sure if I will even use it. Price really isn't the big concern. The big concern is killing it for the price. Also about what size hook do you guys recommend I need one anyway for a pissy King that hates hands in her tank. Out is fine in it is a witch.
> 
> Opinions, concerns, and/or advice?
> 
> ...


green tree pythons are one of my favorites but emerald tree boas are to die for. i would suggest not to get a snake at all IF you are not going to handle. how would you like being in a cage all day?  just like us snakes need to strech their mucsles. also dont forget to put some tree and rainforest theme in the cage, they are climbers!


----------



## bitzy1 (Mar 24, 2010)

bitzy1 said:


> green tree pythons are one of my favorites but emerald tree boas are to die for.


----------



## whitewolf (Mar 24, 2010)

Yeah whatever/if I get one of them I will be going all out on the cage. Custom build like all my others something along the lines of 6' tall x 3' wide and deep when it's ready for it's final home. I just can't help but like the GTP and ETB but we'll see not like I am in that big a hurry either. I still gotta get my bad attitude Tegu's ultimate built too.


----------



## bitzy1 (Mar 24, 2010)

whitewolf said:


> Yeah whatever/if I get one of them I will be going all out on the cage. Custom build like all my others something along the lines of 6' tall x 3' wide and deep when it's ready for it's final home. I just can't help but like the GTP and ETB but we'll see not like I am in that big a hurry either. I still gotta get my bad attitude Tegu's ultimate built too.


i understand sounds like its gunna be a pretty cool cage enjoy keep me updated on what snake your going to get. thnx
bitzy1


----------



## Lucas339 (Mar 25, 2010)

6X3 is way too big.  most breeders reccomend a 3 wide X 2 tall X 2 deep.  if you buy a slightly older cb GTP you should be fine with them feeding and they will be a bit more hardy after 1 year of age.  i keep mine in a 2x2x2 PVC cage heated with a proproducts heat pannel and mist 1 to 2 times a week.  i got her as a hatchling and she is 3 years old now.  a super tall cage is hard to heat and the animal will only use a small portion of it.

when i first got her:







one from a few months ago.  she has change significatly sence then.


----------



## whitewolf (Mar 25, 2010)

Lucas339 said:


> 6X3 is way too big.  most breeders reccomend a 3 wide X 2 tall X 2 deep.  if you buy a slightly older cb GTP you should be fine with them feeding and they will be a bit more hardy after 1 year of age.  i keep mine in a 2x2x2 PVC cage heated with a proproducts heat pannel and mist 1 to 2 times a week.  i got her as a hatchling and she is 3 years old now.  a super tall cage is hard to heat and the animal will only use a small portion of it.


I forget who told me to build that tall but I was doing some reading where most said the same thing on enclosure size, so glad I made that statement. I had planed to be building that big just in case but heating that did seem like a problem. Also heard the same out of several people that they don't really use up much as far as space even in the 3' enclosures. The more I read the more comfortable I am getting with the idea of it.

I even had this elaborate enclosure built in my head and the more I read the more I am understanding simple is better.  Man I never get to build something elaborate. LOL. Well I guess I can remodel the frogs and a T since my snakes are always simple. LOL. The exo is out after seeing just how humid it needs to be. It does build up quite as much as it needs to. Close but not enough. The plastic bins seem to be the best option for now.

I understand that the Fak, Wamena, Jayapura, Aru are supposed to be locations but how do you go about finding one that when it grows up it will more than likely be green with white lighting blots. I don't mean to sound picky as I like them all but I haven't found what I am looking for to answer that question of what the basic idea of what all that location means as far as color if anything.
Forgive me but I am am trying to absorb too much at once and haven't grasped color morphs and locations yet. Ball pythons threw me for a total loop. Books are on order but not here. These are kind of how I like the adults but the blue and all green (ok all of them) are pretty too. http://adevereaux.artspan.com/show-image/99533/Amy-Devereaux/Green-Tree-Python.jpg but babies that both of you posted. Edit> Opps I found that answer sorry.


----------



## jayefbe (Mar 25, 2010)

I don't know why that says it's a green tree python, cuz it's an emerald tree boa.  

For the location-types, Jayapura/Sorong tend to have more bluish highlights, Biak have mottled yellow, Aru are lime green with white spots down the spine and bluish sides.  Most CB specimens are a mix of different locality types.  If you're looking for a particular type, it's probably best to buy offspring of animals that you like.  Going that route will probably cost a lot of money, as many selectively bred GTPs can run you a few thousand bucks easy.  

Be careful of people advertising "Jayapura" or "Wamena" for cheap (less that $300).  These are typically CH offspring.  For your first GTP you really want to buy directly from a breeder.  It'll cost more, but you'll be guaranteed a healthy feeding animal.


----------



## whitewolf (Mar 25, 2010)

jayefbe said:


> I don't know why that says it's a green tree python, cuz it's an emerald tree boa.


Figures :wall:




jayefbe said:


> Be careful of people advertising "Jayapura" or "Wamena" for cheap (less that $300).  These are typically CH offspring.  For your first GTP you really want to buy directly from a breeder.  It'll cost more, but you'll be guaranteed a healthy feeding animal.


Will do. Yes some of the advertisements I ran across searching for info and prices seemed very shady even to me.


----------



## Lucas339 (Mar 26, 2010)

my cage is semi elaborate (see below).  there is a new movement among some keepers with using a bioactive substrate with live plants in them.  they look really nice!!  the cage i have isn't deep enough by the door to allow for that or else i would go that route.  another keeper by the name of greg stephens has very "simple" set ups and has amazing animals. 

as for locales, most of the kingsnake ads are for CH babies.  they are ok but it isn't a good route for your first GTP.  even though they are captive hatched, they can come with problems similar to a wild caught animal.  these animals are farmed in Indo then shipped here.  many breeders will have US captive born locale type animals that have come from WC parents from the past.  by that i mean that some breeders are working with blood lines dating back for many, many years.  there is more and more outcrossing though and some of the outcrossed animals are amazing.

my suggestion would be to buy a yearling from a good breeder.  the animal will be established and can tolerate minor mis-haps with husbandry far better than a hatchling.  check out http://moreliaviridis.yuku.com/.  this is where many top breeders, including the ones mentioned above, share experiences, sell animals and answer questions reguarding GTP.


----------



## whitewolf (Mar 26, 2010)

Lucas339 said:


> my cage is semi elaborate (see below).  there is a new movement among some keepers with using a bioactive substrate with live plants in them.  they look really nice!!  the cage i have isn't deep enough by the door to allow for that or else i would go that route.  another keeper by the name of greg stephens has very "simple" set ups and has amazing animals.
> 
> as for locales, most of the kingsnake ads are for CH babies.  they are ok but it isn't a good route for your first GTP.  even though they are captive hatched, they can come with problems similar to a wild caught animal.  these animals are farmed in Indo then shipped here.  many breeders will have US captive born locale type animals that have come from WC parents from the past.  by that i mean that some breeders are working with blood lines dating back for many, many years.  there is more and more outcrossing though and some of the outcrossed animals are amazing.
> 
> my suggestion would be to buy a yearling from a good breeder.  the animal will be established and can tolerate minor mis-haps with husbandry far better than a hatchling.  check out http://moreliaviridis.yuku.com/.  this is where many top breeders, including the ones mentioned above, share experiences, sell animals and answer questions reguarding GTP.


Thanks. Google is so bogged down with junk and care sheets it makes it hard to locate breeders. I tried using Kingsnakes to locate a breeder but after doing some investigating into wait what does that mean I learned about things like Bushmasters which made quite a few of them non-appealing for a first. Love the setup. The burned PVC turned out nice looking looks like real wood.


----------



## Lucas339 (Mar 29, 2010)

the site i listed has animals for sale that are not bushmaster animals.  they are USCB animals.  there are some true breeders that will list on kingsnake but not too many.

a really helpful way (and i learned most of my stuff about GTP this way) is to buy the more complete chondro by greg maxwell.  it has information on just about everything for these animals.  its written well and is very helpful.


----------



## 8by8 (Mar 29, 2010)

http://www.signalherp.com is a good site to look at. No ATB, but a good stock, history on every snake, and a book on care and proper husbandry as a freebie


----------



## whitewolf (May 11, 2010)

Ok update I read the book and had I believe every question answered. I was kinda iffy though about getting it because I have bought books in the past that make you go now what in the world... that answered nothing. It's a really helpful book and I enjoyed it. Brought everything I was wondering into light and easy enough to read you can understand what he is talking about.

Here is what I got from a breeder on the chondro site. Just in case anyone was wondering if I ever made up my mind. We love it dearly. My little captive breed unsexed yearling. The breeder was super cool and I am super happy. By the way. I have made a few changes to the cage since that photo. I had to cut that jungle gym and spread the plants out for better coverage.


----------



## Shrike (May 13, 2010)

bitzy1 said:


> green tree pythons are one of my favorites but emerald tree boas are to die for. i would suggest not to get a snake at all IF you are not going to handle. how would you like being in a cage all day?  just like us snakes need to strech their mucsles. also dont forget to put some tree and rainforest theme in the cage, they are climbers!


I agree with you that these snakes are amazing species, but I don't agree with your sentiments on handling as a prerequisite for owning snakes.  The species in this post can be downright pugnacious which suggests to me that they just don't want to be handled.  Would you say the same thing about a hot species?  Your analogy on humans and snakes is a nice example of anthropomorphism.  Can't a snake stretch it's muscles just fine within the confines of an appropriately sized enclosure?  I think they can.

To the OP:  Beautiful snake!


----------



## Lucas339 (May 13, 2010)

who did you end up getting it from?  

nice looking animal.


----------



## whitewolf (May 13, 2010)

Thanks everyone for all the info and feedback I got. She/he is a little strikey to word it nicely but I do enjoy it. My daughter loves it too and call's it her "Banana snake."

The breeder is Kevin Kopf. I ended up getting KK09-03 from him. You can't even really see the skin fold unless it stretches out and your really looking for it.


----------



## Lucas339 (May 14, 2010)

I have heard of Kopf.  most people don't even know what a skin fold is, let alone, noticing one on an animal like this.  she/he may grow out of the nippy behavior.  mine was like that for the first year and now she is pretty tame.  i wouldn't say tame like a ball python.  she can have her moments but i haven't been hit by her for a couple of years.

one word of advice on these.  bump the humidity way up during a shed.  when mine goes opaque, i mist daily until she sheds.  be sure not to mist so heavy that it soaks the tank but heavy enough to fog the glass.


----------



## whitewolf (May 15, 2010)

Lucas339 said:


> I have heard of Kopf.  most people don't even know what a skin fold is, let alone, noticing one on an animal like this.  she/he may grow out of the nippy behavior.  mine was like that for the first year and now she is pretty tame.  i wouldn't say tame like a ball python.  she can have her moments but i haven't been hit by her for a couple of years.
> 
> one word of advice on these.  bump the humidity way up during a shed.  when mine goes opaque, i mist daily until she sheds.  be sure not to mist so heavy that it soaks the tank but heavy enough to fog the glass.


Yeah I had to ask him what it was but it didn't bother me. Not like it is gonna hurt it when I found out what it was. I even tried to search for it but ended up with nothing and no info on it. It makes it different so it's ok. LOL. She/he shed about a week after I got it so my son had to parade it all around the school to show off mommas new snake skin. I did have to ask urban jungles just to make sure it was ok I had the humidity backwards. Water collecting during the night and not at day. Of course I did something but not sure what and now all the sudden nothing so I am misting again till I can rig a humidifier up. I'll be glad to get a final cage built and running. I like the idea of using the wood connected with hooks and planting it but well see. I kill plants in the frog tank all the time.

Coolest part was they were studying insets last week (kindergarden) so he got to take the molts and a few dead specimens along with the shed. His teacher stood in awhh as  he told them all about everything. I did too. Shows how much kids really do pay attention when you think they aren't.


----------



## Sunset (May 18, 2010)

*what to pick*

well frist I dont think this is the right boards to be posting something about reptiles. any ways. All three of theses snakes are snakes you shouldnt be picking up because there all mean and like to strike and bite. if you want to get a nice display snake i would get a green tree python or a amazon. amazons come in all kinds of colors. if you want to get a snake that you can hold that has nice colors i would get a red tail, corn snakes, ball pythons king snakes corns snakes. just depends on the price


----------



## Devil'sRival (May 19, 2010)

offroad537 said:


> well frist I dont think this is the right boards to be posting something about reptiles. any ways. All three of theses snakes are snakes you shouldnt be picking up because there all mean and like to strike and bite. if you want to get a nice display snake i would get a green tree python or a amazon. amazons come in all kinds of colors. if you want to get a snake that you can hold that has nice colors i would get a red tail, corn snakes, ball pythons king snakes corns snakes. just depends on the price


Well first off this is the "Not so spineless wonders" section ie anything with a spine, so yes she posted in the right area. Secondly did you even read the entire thread?

Whitewolf
Congrats on the beautiful snake. I've wanted one for a long time now but my work schedule won't allow me to give it proper care. Btw I have family right down the road from you in Santa Fe.


----------



## Lucas339 (May 19, 2010)

offroad537 said:


> well frist I dont think this is the right boards to be posting something about reptiles. any ways. All three of theses snakes are snakes you shouldnt be picking up because there all mean and like to strike and bite. if you want to get a nice display snake i would get a green tree python or a amazon. amazons come in all kinds of colors. if you want to get a snake that you can hold that has nice colors i would get a red tail, corn snakes, ball pythons king snakes corns snakes. just depends on the price


i have enteracted with all three and own a green tree.  it is all in the snake and saying that all of them are "mean" is a stupid sterotype.  i have seen more "mean" redtails than chondros.


----------



## whitewolf (May 19, 2010)

Devil'sRival said:


> Btw I have family right down the road from you in Santa Fe.


Awesome. If your ever out this way feel free to come by and say Hi! 



Lucas339 said:


> i have enteracted with all three and own a green tree.  it is all in the snake and saying that all of them are "mean" is a stupid sterotype.  i have seen more "mean" redtails than chondros.


Yeah I've got a feisty King that would rather bite the hand that feed it then behave itself. lol. It's nippy if your silly enough to stick a finger in front of it's mouth but I defiantly wouldn't call it mean, it's much sweeter than the kingsnake. Anything can be defensive but it's not hunting me down trying to eat me.



offroad537 said:


> well frist I dont think this is the right boards to be posting something about reptiles. any ways. All three of theses snakes are snakes you shouldnt be picking up because there all mean and like to strike and bite. if you want to get a nice display snake i would get a green tree python or a amazon. amazons come in all kinds of colors. if you want to get a snake that you can hold that has nice colors i would get a red tail, corn snakes, ball pythons king snakes corns snakes. just depends on the price


There are quite a few reptile keepers here too. 
Off the top of my head- Urban Jungles, Danny keeps Amazons along with caring and breeding things most of us will never be allowed to lay hands on. (Very jealous) He has answered a lot of other questions in the past for me.
Pitbulllady raises/breeds water snakes and is very good with them. jayefbe has given me advice a few times too. And a lot of others from many other boards I know are here too. I've actually dealt with Kings and Corns for a long time and am burned out on those. I also have had a water snake, a ball python, and will soon have a hog island boa. :? This is strictly a display, not a hold me pet me type of snake. I was mainly trying to filter out the BS sites and get others points of view on info, books, care guides, and dealers. 

Which again thanks everyone for all the info, help, and thoughtful comments.


----------

