# Can you identify these scorpions?



## blooms (Dec 2, 2009)

I was doing some shopping and I came across these species, but I'm not sure what they are.  Here in China, most people use common names, rather than scientific names.  Can anyone identify them and give me the scientific name?  Starting at the top left corner and going clockwise:

This first one was called 巴西杀人蝎 or "Brazilian Man Killing Scorpion"


This second was called 印度黄鳄背蝎子 or "Indian Yellow Alligator Back Scorpion"


This third was called 纳米比亚绿翡翠蝎子 or "Namibian Jadeite Green Scorpion"


This fourth was called 橙爪巨尾蝎 or "Orange Fingernail Great Scorpion"


----------



## rasputin (Dec 2, 2009)

1) _Tityus stigmurus_ "confluenciata"
2) _Odontobuthus odonturus_ (I could be wrong on this one. I'm 95% certain though)
3) _Uroplectes olivaceus_ (juvenile)
4) _Uroplectes fisheri_


----------



## blooms (Dec 2, 2009)

Thanks for the quick reply.  I definitely want to steer clear of the first one, based on what I've heard of that species.


----------



## blooms (Dec 2, 2009)

I've looked for more information about the Uroplectes species.  Do you happen to know their toxicity and could you recommend a caresheet?


----------



## pandinus (Dec 2, 2009)

1) Tityus serrulatus.
2) Androctonus amourexi.
3) Uroplectes olivaceus.
4) Centruroides gracilis.



John


----------



## rasputin (Dec 2, 2009)

I wouldn't be too concerned with _T. stigmurus_, you'd only get stung if you weren't paying attention or were being stupid around it.

As far as the _Uroplectes sp._, contact Mark from http://www.buthiden.de.tl, he's an experienced keeper of this genus. His email address is: Spiritum_mortis@gmx.de


----------



## rasputin (Dec 2, 2009)

pandinus said:


> 1) Tityus serrulatus.
> 2) Androctonus amourexi.
> 3) Uroplectes olivaceus.
> 4) Centruroides gracilis.
> John


John, 

Since when does _C. gracilis_ look like that? I've got an army of _C. gracilis_ here right now, ranging from i2 to adult, none look like that nor have ever looked like that. #4 is 100% _Uroplectes fisheri_. The _A. amoreuxi_ guess may be correct where I was 5% uncertain about my ID on #2, but you spelled _amoreuxi_ wrong though. Although, _A. amoreuxi_ is unlikely as the manus and chela coloration is wrong.

Blooms,

Although we have given you two possible names for scorpion #2, take in mind that the only scorpions referred to as "Alligator Back" are of the genus _Hottentotta_ and I can say that there is no doubt in my mind that that scorpion is not from the genus _Hottentotta_.
Possibilities include:
_A. amoreuxi_ - Least likely
_O. odonturus_ - Most likely
_Buthacus arenicola_ - 2nd most likely


----------



## pandinus (Dec 2, 2009)

rasputin said:


> John,
> 
> Since when does _C. gracilis_ look like that? I've got an army of _C. gracilis_ here right now, ranging from i2 to adult, none look like that nor have ever looked like that. #4 is 100% _Uroplectes fisheri_. The _A. amoreuxi_ guess may be correct where I was 5% uncertain about my ID on #2, but you spelled _amoreuxi_ wrong though. Although, _A. amoreuxi_ is unlikely as the manus and chela coloration is wrong.


i'm not going to bicker these points. its my opinion, sorry if it pisses you off.



John


----------



## rasputin (Dec 2, 2009)

pandinus said:


> i'm not going to bicker these points. its my opinion, sorry if it pisses you off.
> John


John,

It didn't piss me off. ID isn't just a matter of opinion but rather a focus on fact. 

For those in the dark, here's a thread with pics of some of the _C. gracilis_ @ my place (the pix were taken over the past 24hrs): http://www.venomlist.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=26065


----------



## freeman (Dec 3, 2009)

1) Tityus serrulatus
2) looks like Androctonus sp. so if its from india it might be Androctonus finitimus or Androctonus maelfaiti
3) Uroplectes olivaceus
4) ? whats it's origin area?


----------



## rasputin (Dec 3, 2009)

freeman said:


> 1) Tityus serrulatus
> 2) looks like Androctonus sp. so if its from india it might be Androctonus finitimus or Androctonus maelfaiti
> 3) Uroplectes olivaceus
> 4) ? whats it's origin area?


For #4 look at the 9th and 10th pictures in this thread (I'm 100% on the _Uroplectes fisheri_ ID): http://www.venomlist.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=26038

For #1, _T. serrulatus_ / _T. stigmurus "confluenciata"_ - same thing, I forgot the synonymization of the two.

If #2 is _Androctonus maelfaiti_, I want to see pictures of this species (go as far as to produce for me a live specimen and I'll remove my left testicle and express ship it to you). It's not _Androctonus finitimus_ though. I'm sticking with my initial ID of _O. odonturus_.

One thing that should be taken in mind is the part of the world Blooms is from, the suppliers and dealers call the scorpion whatever they want and sell them to whoever will buy them. In the "western world" we actually care about the scientific name of our scorpions for a great number of reasons, many of which tend to be steeped in science - in the Asias, on the other hand, there are not enough people that care about the scientific names so the suppliers bypass that all together, leaving a number of hobbyists down there beating their heads against the wall trying to figure out what's what (as we can see with Blooms' quest to id the species he's found and is interested in buying).


----------



## Skywalker (Dec 3, 2009)

I agree with John's IDs for all four specimen. #1 and #3 are out of question. #2 is probably Androctonus amoreuxi, definitely not Odontobuthus odonturus. Reason: shape of the chelae and metasoma. O. odonturus would also have noticable spines on the metasoma. If anyone wants to point out now that the common name the dealer gave to the scorpion is "Indian whatever" and A. amoreuxi does not reach into India then I can only quote what Rasputin himself wrote:



rasputin said:


> One thing that should be taken in mind is the part of the world Blooms is from, the suppliers and dealers call the scorpion whatever they want and sell them to whoever will buy them.


#4 is not U. fisheri. I can say that without any doubt. If one knows where this species is from, who brought it into the hobby, etc. then there is nothing more to say. But for those who don't know about those circumstances just look at the pics at Venomlist. Scorpion #4 does not even come close to U. fisheri in looks. Look at the pedipalps, the legs, the metasoma, ...
In my opinion #4 is probably Centruroides gracilis. There are several color morphs of that species. After only one second looking for C. gracilis pics with Google I found this: http://johnbokma.com/mexit/2008/07/26/second-instar-centruroides-gracilis.html
Look the same, don't they?


----------



## pandinus (Dec 3, 2009)

it is also possible though i think a little more unlikely that it could be another centruroides species like C. margaritatus, but the thing to keep in mind with these two species is that htey have massive ranges in the combined regions of the southern US most of Central America, a large portion of the carribean, and decending into a substantial part of northern South America. Throughout that range there are many many different color variations of these two species and so many, especially as babies, can look very different from eachother. I have personally seen some that were jet black, some that are black with chocolate colored legs, some with tan legs and reddish chela, some that are mostly brown with a little red, and of course there is always the famous bicolor morph of margaritatus.



John


----------



## Koh_ (Dec 4, 2009)

im not an expert
but i'd say

1->Tityus serrulatus
2-> Androctonus amorexi 
3-> Uroplectes olivaceus
4->  no idea but looks like it molted not so long ago lol

btw, the name for t.serrulatus is kinda interesting...
Brazilian Man Killing Scorpion. what a name! lol


----------



## rasputin (Dec 4, 2009)

Skywalker said:


> #4 is not U. fisheri. I can say that without any doubt. If one knows where this species is from, who brought it into the hobby, etc. then there is nothing more to say. But for those who don't know about those circumstances just look at the pics at Venomlist. Scorpion #4 does not even come close to U. fisheri in looks. Look at the pedipalps, the legs, the metasoma, ...
> In my opinion #4 is probably Centruroides gracilis. There are several color morphs of that species. After only one second looking for C. gracilis pics with Google I found this: http://johnbokma.com/mexit/2008/07/26/second-instar-centruroides-gracilis.html
> Look the same, don't they?


1) The pictures you linked are of 2i C. gracilis
2) Take a good long look at the last 2 metasomal segments and tell me that that is a _Centruroides sp._


----------



## Kugellager (Dec 5, 2009)

#1 Tityus sp.

#2 A.amourexi or a _very_ closely related species.

#4 Some sort of Centruroides sp. (maybe Babycurus sp?)

Ignore the Common names as they are usually crap and not to be trusted.

Photos and color are some of the worst ways to ID a species - these ones are relatively small and do not offer much detail.  #2 is the only one I would have a difficult time being swayed far from its ID. It "looks" very much like A.amourexi.


John
];')


----------



## skinheaddave (Dec 5, 2009)

Kugellager said:


> Photos and color are some of the worst ways to ID a species - these ones are relatively small and do not offer much detail.


:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: 

Amen to that.

And I also agree that #2 is most likely A.amoreuxi or similar.  The picture does show a few things in addition to proportions.  The chela have that ... I don't know how to describe it .. I call it "lobster claws" in my own mind, despite the fact that they actually look nothing like lobsters.  Also, you can see the heavy keels on the posterior half of the prosoma though you can't quite make out their configuration.  The keels running from the median eyes to the notch at the anterior edge of the prosoma are also prominent and features that curve that reminds me of the pincers on an earwig.  Just my two cents, though.  Without better pictures you can't even begin to put confidence in these guesses.  Without the specimen in hand it is hard to be sure.

Cheers,
Dave


----------



## Jonathan.Hui (Dec 14, 2009)

Are you from Hong Kong ??


----------



## freeman (Dec 15, 2009)

Last one is similar to young Grosphus flavopiceus


----------



## Michiel (Dec 16, 2009)

1. Tityus serrulatus
2. A.amoreuxi (A.finitimus is not a valid species and is therefore synonymized with A.australis, and this specimens looks nothing like that). 
3. U.olivaceus
4. I am having troubles with this one, and I cannot ID it. I can only say it resembles a juvenile Grosphus grandidieri very strong (reddish pedipalps and the rest of the body blackish). But I am not labelling that one.


----------



## Animalia (Dec 17, 2009)

blooms said:


> This first one was called 巴西杀人蝎 or "Brazilian Man Killing Scorpion"
> 
> 
> This second was called 印度黄鳄背蝎子 or "Indian Yellow Alligator Back Scorpion"
> ...



Hello I was reading this post in my web class and my friend speaks japanese well we started looking at the kanji and I realized 蝎 had to mean scorpion since it was the only character that was consistent in all four sentences. However I looked it up just to be sure i saw that 蝎子 meant scorpion, So i was wondering why does the 巴西杀人蝎 or "Brazilian Man Killing Scorpion" and 橙爪巨尾蝎 or "Orange Fingernail Great Scorpion" not have the 子 at the end??


----------



## venomshock (Dec 18, 2009)

old world..............


----------



## Makaveli319 (Dec 22, 2009)

Hi,
Whoever said Androctonus amoreuxi is mistaken, I believe.  The common name, in chinese of A. amoureuxi is the same as for A. australis and that is 黄色肥尾（或胖尾）

for a good chinese language site try www.shczly.com (上海宠珠乐园）


----------



## Kugellager (Dec 22, 2009)

Common names can be used for anything or incorrectly given to the wrong species.



John
];')


----------



## ThomasH (Dec 23, 2009)

rasputin said:


> Since when does _C. gracilis_ look like that? I've got an army of _C. gracilis_ here right now, ranging from i2 to adult, none look like that nor have ever looked like that.


You are aware that C. gracilis has a massive range, correct? According to some texts, Central American gracilis is even more potent than Florida gracilis. So obviously some natural variation has occured and it wouldn't be terribly far fetched to assume that coloration, metasoma width, etc. could be affected as well. Are you even aware of the locality of your specimens? Theoretically, the OP could have gotten ahold of a C. gracilis specimen from a certain locality that the hobby rarely or has never obtained them from.

TBH


----------



## rasputin (Dec 23, 2009)

ThomasH said:


> You are aware that C. gracilis has a massive range, correct? According to some texts, Central American gracilis is even more potent than Florida gracilis. So obviously some natural variation has occured and it wouldn't be terribly far fetched to assume that coloration, metasoma width, etc. could be affected as well. Are you even aware of the locality of your specimens? Theoretically, the OP could have gotten ahold of a C. gracilis specimen from a certain locality that the hobby rarely or has never obtained them from.
> 
> TBH


Really? - yes, they have one of the largest ranges as they reaching from Florida across the Caribbean into South America with potency getting stronger the further south into it's range.

Thomas, I think I would go as far to say there there is little to nothing you could tell me about this species and, dare I say, the genus, that is going to be news to me based solely on your assumption that I didn't know that painfully common bit of information.

Now tell me, what species of scorpion could be given a common name of "orange giant claw" (orange fingernail was a mistranslation)? Not a name, under any morphological variation, that I would attribute to _C. gracilis_. But really, I'm burnt out on this stupid thread and Blooms has not come back to say where he got those pix and maybe provide more so I don't want to talk about this any further.


----------



## ThomasH (Dec 23, 2009)

rasputin said:


> Thomas, I think I would go as far to say there there is little to nothing you could tell me about this species and, dare I say, the genus, that is going to be news to me based solely on your assumption that I didn't know that painfully common bit of information.


Well you seemed blatantly ignorant towards that "painfully common bit of information." I was just speculating based on what we all know regarding this species. I don't think it's unreasonable to consider the possibility of the specimen in question being C. gracilis.



> Now tell me, what species of scorpion could be given a common name of "orange giant claw" (orange fingernail was a mistranslation)? Not a name, under any morphological variation, that I would attribute to _C. gracilis_. But really, I'm burnt out on this stupid thread and Blooms has not come back to say where he got those pix and maybe provide more so I don't want to talk about this any further.


I don't care [nor do most] about the common name applied to this specimen. But under your logic, do any of the other common names reported make much sense either?

TBH


----------



## OntarioNative (Dec 23, 2009)

Uh oh flame war


----------



## winter_in_tears (Dec 28, 2009)

I am right and you are all wrong! :}


----------

