# B. sabulosum, B. angustum, B. vagans



## Jmugleston (Dec 23, 2009)

I've received the answers for my other "how can I differentiate" thread, so now for the next challenge that keeps me up at night. My problem is I don't know how to tell B. vagans, B. sabulosum, and B. angustum from each other. *Can anyone detail a method for differentiating the three?* Typically I wouldn't be bothered by this but I just received a few spiders that were labeled as both B. angustum or B. sabulosum. The previous owner mixed up the labels are they were unsure as to which one was purchased as which species. I haven't worked much with either so I'm not able to know which is which. I'd rather not have two pet brachys instead I'd like to find out what they are. Any hints on this one? I guess I should mention they are 2-3" juveniles.


(If this has been addressed before, I have yet to find it.)


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## zonbonzovi (Dec 23, 2009)

Without having them in front of me(at work right now), I want to say that the carapace on B. vagans tends to be very dark/black, whereas B. angustum has a salmon-ish hue on the edges.  Otherwise, no discernible difference.  I have one of each at home about the same size as yours.  I'll try & remember to post pix later...

I rescind my rapid fire click finger.  These two are nearly identical with one having slightly longer and denser setae, but not a pronounced difference.  Does B. vagans show a dramatic change in carapace color as it ages?  The photos of adults I've seen always have a distinctly black carapace.  Pic 1/2 is supposedly angustum/vagans, but now I'm:?:?

Oops...here they are.

Reactions: Helpful 1


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## Jmugleston (Dec 24, 2009)

The black carapace of B. vagans is something that has a bit of variability with some turning black later on.


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## zonbonzovi (Dec 24, 2009)

Any idea where to find a key for Brachypelma?  From looking around various amateur tarantula sites, this is a big unanswered question.  The only consensus I could find on morphology was that angustum, if indeed a valid species in and of itself, is smaller as an adult.  But, that's a useless distinction even if you have an army of adults to work with.:wall:


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## Cbarr (Dec 24, 2009)

Angustum have red hair on legs iv and viii are smaller in adult size tend to be more aggressive than vagans, true vagans don't have any red hair on their legs sabulosum's colors are more duller and muted including their setaeon their abdomen.  sabulosum alain tend to be a little more aggressive than vagans as well , some say they are variants but I say let the spermathacae do the talking and all three of my females have different looking spermathacae!

C


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## brian abrams (Dec 25, 2009)

*vagans vs angustum vs sabulosum*

Fascinating topic!  I've always wondered myself how you can tell the 3 species apart.  They al look indistinguishable to me when I see pictures.  I wonder if anyone out there has adults of all 3 or at least 2 of them so we can compare.


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## M.F.Bagaturov (Dec 27, 2009)

From all the species in question you can only positively ID one - B. sabulosum and only via adult specimen.


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## mickey66 (Dec 27, 2009)

Cbarr said:


> Angustum have red hair on legs iv and viii are smaller in adult size tend to be more aggressive than vagans, true vagans don't have any red hair on their legs sabulosum's colors are more duller and muted including their setaeon their abdomen.  sabulosum alain tend to be a little more aggressive than vagans as well , some say they are variants but I say let the spermathacae do the talking and all three of my females have different looking spermathacae!
> 
> C


 Ok....you guys are driving me nuts now......I bought a B.Vagans from a well known dealer and now the spidy looks like B.Angustum...it does have some red hairs on legs IV and VIII....here is a photo I would like some help with this I.D.please.....http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu315/mickey66_2009/DSCN0381.jpg This spider tends to be very skittish...


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## james137 (Aug 30, 2019)

I'm getting a b angustus in a couple of days so can't say from experience but after doing tones of research that looks like one to me, although from what I hear there are plenty of hybrids around so ??


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## Paul1126 (Aug 30, 2019)

james137 said:


> I'm getting a b angustus in a couple of days so can't say from experience but after doing tones of research that looks like one to me, although from what I hear there are plenty of hybrids around so ??


This thread is 10 years old buddy


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## james137 (Aug 30, 2019)

Paul1126 said:


> This thread is 10 years old buddy


Don't I noticed that after waaaay to late. Ignore me lol

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Arachnid Addicted (Aug 30, 2019)

Ok, first of all, lets talk about B. angustum isolated from the others. 

The real B. angustum was actually a Sericopelma, misidentified as Brachypelma, if I remember correctly. That said, the species was transferred to Sericopelma genus and its now known as S. angustum (at least until the next revision comes out).

It's not possible to confirm if the individuals being sold in the hobby as B. angustum are actually the real deal, so you cant say they are the real S. angustum, thats why its nomenclature was kept as Brachypelma sp. "Angustum" (or something like this).

About B. sabulosum and B. vagans, truth is, in pet trade there were a lot of hybridization already, not only that, there were lots of mislabeled/mistaken/misidentidied red rumpers in the past so, B. sabulosum was sold as B. vagans and vice-versa (not to mention the others Red Rumpers). This means, the only way you can have a guaranteed pure bloodline of Red Rumpers, is by wc them from their original location.

With all that being said, I'm sorry to say  that, unless you kept the nomenclatures  you bought them with, it will be pretty most improbable to differentiate them and say with 100% sure which is which.

A revision article will come up soon, and it will change all these Red Rumpers to new species, and even with this new article, it will be near impossible to identified pet trade Red Rumpers. 

I made a thread on Tarantulas Pictures here in this forum and recently posted all Brachypelma spp. I have, all pet trade Red Rumpers (with a defined species, not like sp. "Angustum") are there, in case you want to check it. The nomenclatures I use til this day are the ones that was given to me when I got them, but if I ever had mixed them up, I'd probably kept all of them as Brachypelma sp. "Red Rump". Lol.


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## Vanisher (Aug 30, 2019)

B sabulosum is much more defenssive yhan the other 2


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## AphonopelmaTX (Aug 30, 2019)

Arachnid Addicted said:


> Ok, first of all, lets talk about B. angustum isolated from the others.
> 
> The real B. angustum was actually a Sericopelma, misidentified as Brachypelma, if I remember correctly. That said, the species was transferred to Sericopelma genus and its now known as S. angustum (at least until the next revision comes out).
> 
> ...


Since this thread was originally created 10 years ago, an identification guide does exist for the red rump tarantulas so it is possible to identify pet trade material.  See the "Identification of CITES-listed Tarantulas" published by the Commission for Environmental Cooperation available online for free here.


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## Arachnid Addicted (Aug 30, 2019)

AphonopelmaTX said:


> Since this thread was originally created 10 years ago, an identification guide does exist for the red rump tarantulas so it is possible to identify pet trade material.  See the "Identification of CITES-listed Tarantulas" published by the Commission for Environmental Cooperation available online for free here.


I didnt noticed the year, LOL. It just popped up here and I answered it.

Either way, this guide is awesome and I knew it already. However, what I meant is, since Brachypelma red rumpers are mess in pet trade, even with this guide hobbysts can continuously misid them. 

Imo, this guide is awesome for people who work on the field and/or in a science daily basis. You know?


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## james137 (Sep 2, 2019)

Thanks for all the answers, spent ages looking online and the answers where right here I know it's going to be a long time before it's big enough for me to tell even with all the correct information. Mines coming from spiders world's.eu I don't suppose anyone on here has used them and knows there reputation? Just thought maybe if it's a high quality breeder may be more likely the real deal although I wouldn't complain for a lovely couple quid spider anyway lol.


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## Arachnid Addicted (Sep 2, 2019)

james137 said:


> Thanks for all the answers, spent ages looking online and the answers where right here I know it's going to be a long time before it's big enough for me to tell even with all the correct information. Mines coming from spiders world's.eu I don't suppose anyone on here has used them and knows there reputation? Just thought maybe if it's a high quality breeder may be more likely the real deal although I wouldn't complain for a lovely couple quid spider anyway lol.


As far as I know, Spiders World is reliable. However, unless they are getting wc Red Rumpers, from the species locality and etc., there's no way they know what they are really selling. BUT, their labels are ok when it comes to "pet trade species".


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## james137 (Sep 3, 2019)

Tahsys


Arachnid Addicted said:


> As far as I know, Spiders World is reliable. However, unless they are getting wc Red Rumpers, from the species locality and etc., there's no way they know what they are really selling. BUT, their labels are ok when it comes to "pet trade species".


That's what I thought, looking over the cites paper basically said that. thanks


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