# Praying Mantis dead!?



## Schledog (Dec 19, 2018)

Ok so Sunday the sixteenth I purchased a young (L2-L3?) and one was looking weird and kind of shriveled last night and this morning it was dead on the bottom of its deli cup. The other mantis, the male, is still ok and my friend also bought a female. They are all giant golden mantids. Flashback to a few months ago, I had a Chinese mantis and it died in the same manner as the one now. PLEASE TELL ME IF IM DOING SOMETHING WRONG!!! My enclosure is a deli cup with a couple popsicle sticks and I mist once a day. I’m feeding D. Hydei fruit flies every three days. Please help! I don’t want to lose any more baby mantids.


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## The Seraph (Dec 19, 2018)

First off, would you kindly post pictures of the cage? Secondly, fruit flies are not nutritious enough.


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## Schledog (Dec 19, 2018)

Ok so I checked on the thought to be dead mantis and it turned out it fell while molting and indeed was alive. It was however stuck in its skin and I tried to remove it as best as possible. I think it might be ok but it can’t walk for the time being. I am hoping it just needs to dry and harden but just in case #1. Can it survive till next molt? #2 Is it humane of me to keep it alive and feed it if it truely can’t walk or should I (sadly) put it in the freezer?


Also what should I feed it besides fruit flies?​


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## The Seraph (Dec 19, 2018)

Schledog said:


> Ok so I checked on the thought to be dead mantis and it turned out it fell while molting and indeed was alive. It was however stuck in its skin and I tried to remove it as best as possible. I think it might be ok but it can’t walk for the time being. I am hoping it just needs to dry and harden but just in case #1. Can it survive till next molt? #2 Is it humane of me to keep it alive and feed it if it truely can’t walk or should I (sadly) put it in the freezer?
> 
> 
> Also what should I feed it besides fruit flies?​


As long as the mandibles and claws are fine if can eat. I would feed it crickets, just make sure they are on the same branch as the mantis as they tend to hide on the floor.


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## Schledog (Dec 19, 2018)




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## The Seraph (Dec 19, 2018)

Also, pictures!
Edit: Nevermind!


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## Schledog (Dec 19, 2018)

Her raptorial claws are fine and her face was entirely fine, her legs were all stuck together which was what I was worried about. Also she is still drying out this is only like twenty minutes after being “freed” from her shed.


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## The Seraph (Dec 19, 2018)

First off, that does not look like a good enclosure. There is no branch or fake plant or really anything for it to molt on and that looks very small for that species. I cannot remember the ratio for the enclosure size, @Sarkhan42, @basin79 wanna help? Also, there is no substrate. I cannot see the mantis very well. I would appreciate a picture of it if you can get it.


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## The Seraph (Dec 19, 2018)

I am pretty sure that we long as the claws are free and nothing is damaged internally it should be fine. One problem that could arise is when it molts again. If it cannot hang upside down, then it cannot molt properly.


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## Schledog (Dec 19, 2018)

I took out the sticks I had for the picture and i didn’t know I should use substrate, should I use coco fiber?


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## Schledog (Dec 19, 2018)

Also nothing is damaged internally because she pooped mabye 13 minuets ago.


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## The Seraph (Dec 19, 2018)

Yep use coco fiber. Also, you did not have to take it out. I sent that reply before you sent the other photo of the mantis. It probably cannot do too much harm at this point though. That looks like a really bad molt. There is really nothing you can do except hope it can eat and climb.


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## Schledog (Dec 19, 2018)

Oh, whoops. I made sure not to touch her when I pulled her out, I just lifted the towel.


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## Schledog (Dec 19, 2018)

In the future how do I prevent this? I knew she was going to molt because unlike the male she didn’t eat and I made sure to include branches and mist down the cage, is it bad luck or bad care?


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## The Seraph (Dec 19, 2018)

It may be bad luck, though I have a feeling that cup is too small. I know there is a ratio but I am tired and I have forgotten it. I would give it a more appropriate sized cage in the future, if it is needed. Also, paper towels are not the best substrate and those look like they got in the way.


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## Schledog (Dec 19, 2018)

Ok thanks for your help, I can only hope for the best.


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## The Seraph (Dec 19, 2018)

I am sure more users will comment probably with more experience then me. I am very sleepy and it has been a few years since I kept mantids. I can say, hope for the best and do not get discouraged. Also, good night.


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## The Mantis Menagerie (Dec 20, 2018)

The formula I believe @The Seraph is trying to remember is the width of the enclosure should be at least twice the length of the mantis, and the height of the enclosure should be at least three times the length of the mantis. I think your enclosure looks okay as far as size (for now), but I think the molting issue may be related to the fact that there is a gap between the top of the paper towel and the lid as this makes it harder for the nymph to reach the lid. I would recommend adding sticks to your mantis enclosures, so your mantids can climb back to the lid if they fall. The lid provides the mantis with a place to avoid feeder insects if it is getting stressed out, and the fabric lids in particular provide a sturdy molting platform. Substrate is not necessary for all species, and I have raised several mantids through their entire lives without a substrate.

Also, I strongly discourage using crickets for mantids, specifically the _Acheta domestica_ bought at pet stores. I had a large collection of _Tenodera sinensis_ that I was breeding this fall, and a large portion of my mantids died after being fed crickets from Petsmart. I also have had crickets attack and dislodge newly molted insects causing deformities, and sometimes the crickets even end up eating the insect (or worse, they eat just enough to make it impossible for the insect to recover). I have used _Gryllodes sigillatus_ with no problems (although will still take advantage of a newly molted insect if you give them the chance), but I have not seen pet stores selling them other than online or at expos. I successfully raised _Pseudocreobotra ocellata_ nymphs on nothing but fruit flies until they were subadults. They grew very quickly, and they seemed healthy. _P. ocellata_ is a small species, and your Hierodula venosa (the species most commonly referred to as the giant golden mantis and ironically the first species I ever kept) will quickly outgrow fruit flies, probably by their next molt. At this point, I would recommend switching to feeder roaches or hand-feeding mealworms and superworms to your mantids.


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## basin79 (Dec 20, 2018)

At least 3x the length of your mantis is required height wise. You have to also be careful about deco. They need some but too much and you run the risk of your mantis "hitting" them when trying to moult. I've had a mantis try and moult in the most ridiculous place. Luckily and it was sheer luck I saw her mid moult and moved the deco in her way. 

I prefer to use kitchen roll for my mantids. I use a few sheets so I can spray them with water. Kitchen roll also makes cleaning out far easier as mantids are messy eaters and shit for England. 

That's a bad moult. You can tong feed using dead prey items and also feed honey mixed with water off a toothpick or similar. Mantids LOVE honey. Hopefully the little one will be able to hang to moult next time.


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## Schledog (Dec 20, 2018)

My mantis loved the honey-water mix and I also mixed in a coupe fruit flies into the honey so it was almost like Amber. Because she can’t climb well I essentially made a little vertical...platform? I dunno how to describe it but she likes to just hang out and I’m hoping when she molts next time she’ll be in the platform so she’s hanging. Anyway thanks for all the help.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sarkhan42 (Dec 21, 2018)

Looks like I got here a little late, so I won't restate what's already been said but there's plenty of great advice given already. 

Best of luck with the little one, I've had mantids recover from all kinds of injuries, it's all about making sure they keep hydrated and fed, and have a good place to molt. As long as you can insure she can hang properly, everything should correct itself with the molt. I would definitely not leave any prey with her unsupervised, and pay close attention to her positioning as time goes on, so you can correct any problems as they come.


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## Sarkhan42 (Dec 21, 2018)

I would also be careful with the honey. It's a fantastic treat, but not a great major staple. Moderation matters for mantids too


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## Major 78 (Dec 30, 2018)

-_- 

Damn, every thread I see on arachnoboards concerning mantids seems to have a whole lotta misunderstanding. First off, don't say "Giant Golden" say "Hierodula Java". Next, that enclosure is the tiniest little thing! You need a 32 oz deli cup with a whole lot of ventilation on the top. (Checkout any mantis seller they have some with custom ventilation) It also needs a stick to molt off of. And to whoever said fruit flies are not a sufficient food source? You kidding? The mantis diet REVOLVES around fruit flies. They get all their protein and majority of their water from them. And honey is a good way to flush any bug out of a mantids system, so use that. Just don't get your mantids legs stuck on it, it's pretty sticky. Ever hear about the guy who got his hand stuck in a pot of honey? Well, let's just say it's permanent... Lol.


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## The Mantis Menagerie (Dec 30, 2018)

That 16 ounce deli cup is fine for a mantis of that size, and the lid looks like the usual fabric lids that are used to raise mantids. I agree on the fruit flies though; I have raised many healthy mantids on nothing but _Drosophila hydei _fruit flies until they were large enough to eat roaches and other feeders.

Reactions: Like 1


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## mantisfan101 (Dec 30, 2018)

Oof, don’t know what to say but if he’s eating he’s probably going to make it. I would move to a 32 oz deli container or larger and add a layer of substrate, I found moist paper towels to work fine. Popsical sticks work but looks like he fell during the molt. You could try feeding him or handfeeding him, he could be able to make it but for the next molt I can’t tell if he’ll survive that but you’ve got a fighter


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## Dmitry Maksimovich (Apr 7, 2019)

I know that this is incredibly late, but just a few tips for the future. 
1. Fruit flies are perfectly fine for mantids of any species or instar. However, stay away from crickets. I have not once fed a cricket to my mantis for many reasons. They easily carry parasites and diseases, they don't climb, and they can even chew off your mantids leg. Try using small locusts instead.
2. I'd personally use a taller enclosure for my mantis. Try your best to provide atleast one stick that is perfectly horizontal, and one vertical one near it. That's the best set up for them molting because they'll hang off of one and climb onto the vertical one once they slide out of their molt, this prevents falls.
3. It might just be the photos, but those tissues are WAY too wet. I think that your mantis had a mismolt because it was too humid. They need perfect conditions to molt, and if I remember correctly  heirodulas dont need high humidity. I had the same issue when I just started keeping them and my first to mantids ended up having crooked wings because I sprayed too much. Buy a hygrometer. They're fairly cheap but they help. If you want a good quality one, I recommend komodo. 
And lastly, 4. This is just me personally, but I would never put my mantis in the freezer unless it was in absolute agony. Even after a mismolt, you can hand feed it and help it molt. It can most definitely be saved. 
I hope this helps and I hope that your mantis is okay


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## Plantbuglady (Apr 13, 2019)

Hi! I have a mantis in a similar situation, her front two legs do not work but she’s eating crickets that I hand feed her. She got stuck in her molt and fell.  (Maybe he?) how can I help her molt? I don’t think she can get upside down on her own  she has wing buds so I think it may be one of her last molts...


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## mantisfan101 (Apr 13, 2019)

Plantbuglady said:


> Hi! I have a mantis in a similar situation, her front two legs do not work but she’s eating crickets that I hand feed her. She got stuck in her molt and fell.  (Maybe he?) how can I help her molt? I don’t think she can get upside down on her own  she has wing buds so I think it may be one of her last molts...


Pictures would help. Provide ample room and surfaces for her to molt and maybe try raising humidity and ventilation so that the outer exoskeleton might be a bit softer as she tries to molt.


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