# Scolopendra altrenans species Puerto Rico



## JAFUENTES (Jan 26, 2016)

This is the little one I got from a friend in Puerto Rico. What do you all think?

Reactions: Like 5 | Love 1


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## JAFUENTES (Jan 26, 2016)

It's extremely aggressive!!!!!!!!!!!!! And he's about 5 inches right now.


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## craze horse (Feb 8, 2016)

I don't know what it is but it's certainly got lovely markings. I'd be pretty aggressive to if I'd been plucked out of my natural surroundings and put in a tub !


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## TheHonestPirate (Feb 9, 2016)

craze horse said:


> I don't know what it is but it's certainly got lovely markings. I'd be pretty aggressive to if I'd been plucked out of my natural surroundings and put in a tub !


Actually they're naturally aggressive, even when bred in captivity when it's never known natural surroundings they are still aggressive, it's in their nature, they're apex predators among the inverts in their environment.


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## JAFUENTES (Mar 13, 2016)

Anyone have one with markings that are almost identical?


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## Mastigoproctus (Mar 13, 2016)

JAFUENTES said:


> Anyone have one with markings that are almost identical?


Yup I posted a video interacting with one a few days ago, the link is here: http://arachnoboards.com/threads/alternans-and-polymorpha-strange-interactions-vid.281477/

Also I wanna clear up something I've read on this thread, this species is not aggressive like everyone makes it out to be, just more jumpy then some. They have a similar demeanor to Gigantea/Galapagoensis so when shown that you mean no harm and when worked with slowly in the right way I find these are by far some of the most docile centipede species out there and are a joy to ineract with. I'll also add I have neve once received an envenomation by one and have handled lots and lots of them. 

The Florida Alternans on the other hand are what I would call "bitey" they are constantly dry pinching (pinching with no venom injected) IDK why they do it but they do this strange cringing motion before they pinch so you can always tell when a bites coming if you pay attention. I will also add though I have never truly been envenomated by a Florida Alternans either, just lots of dry pinches. 

These pedes have such a bad rep I think do to their flighty nature, but they are not the monsters they are made out to be by any means, just weary and carful.

Reactions: Like 1


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## JAFUENTES (Jan 19, 2018)

Scolopendra altrenans species PR has just molted

Reactions: Like 3


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## JAFUENTES (Jan 19, 2018)

Close to 8 inches now.


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## NatureJay (Jan 19, 2018)

Nice...How long have u had it?

Reactions: Like 1 | Creative 1


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## JAFUENTES (Jan 19, 2018)

NatureJay said:


> Nice...How long have u had it?


4 years now.  Got it when it was three inches long.


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## Galapoheros (Jan 20, 2018)

I've read the ones in Puerto Rico generally get pretty big, I also read the giant red Caribbean centipede is a color form of alternans.  Was that ever cleared up?  Years ago, a scientist or two assumed the big red ones were a subspinipes.


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## LeFanDesBugs (Jan 20, 2018)

The hispaniola red giants are a different species. They have no ring furrow whereas alternans do.
Jafunentes, your pede's really cool looking. I'm getting a red giant next month. If the forum wants some pics..


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## NatureJay (Jan 20, 2018)

JAFUENTES said:


> 4 years now.  Got it when it was three inches long.


Nice... He's a big boy now...


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## Galapoheros (Jan 20, 2018)

LeFanDesBugs said:


> The hispaniola red giants are a different species. They have no ring furrow whereas alternans do.
> Jafunentes, your pede's really cool looking. I'm getting a red giant next month. If the forum wants some pics..


I don't think alternans has a ring furrow.

Reactions: Like 1


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## LeFanDesBugs (Jan 20, 2018)

It does 
Edit: until I find a decisive picture, I'm actually not so sure.. xD


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## Galapoheros (Jan 20, 2018)

What might fool people at times is a mislabeled polymorpha pic that do have a furrow, they superficially look like alternans.


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## LeFanDesBugs (Jan 20, 2018)

Yeah but I've certified 2 days ago by someone very experienced that they have one. I checked and I came (somehow, but I can't remember) to the conclusion that he was right. I was doubting it as well.
But after checking again, I must have been tired. They don't seem to have any.


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## Yulian (Jan 20, 2018)

There should be a sticky with centipede anatomy for newbies like there is on the T forums, I still dont know what a ring furrow is


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## LawnShrimp (Jan 20, 2018)

Yulian said:


> There should be a sticky with centipede anatomy for newbies like there is on the T forums, I still dont know what a ring furrow is


[previously was a photo here]
This great (NOT MY PHOTO) picture of an S. heros is a good example; I circled and arrowed to the ringfurrow. It's the crease on the first segment behind the cephalic plate (headplate). Only New World Scolopendra species have it with the exception of S. alternans, S. longipes, and a few others that do not.


LeFanDesBugs said:


> It does
> Edit: until I find a decisive picture, I'm actually not so sure.. xD


S. alternans has no ringfurrow as far as I can see, though there is a very slight crease behind the cephalic plate that looks a bit like a ringfurrow, but is in no way as prominent as heros, polymorpha, or gigantea.


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## basin79 (Jan 20, 2018)

LawnShrimp said:


> This great (NOT MY PHOTO) picture of an S. heros is a good example; I circled and arrowed to the ringfurrow. It's the crease on the first segment behind the cephalic plate (headplate). Only New World Scolopendra species have it with the exception of S. alternans, S. longipes, and a few others that do not.
> 
> S. alternans has no ringfurrow as far as I can see, though there is a very slight crease behind the cephalic plate that looks a bit like a ringfurrow, but is in no way as prominent as heros, polymorpha, or gigantea.



With it not being your pic mods will remove it. Feel free to circle and arrow one of these. It won't be deleted. Female Scolopendra viridicornis (I'm not fussed if she's not  the true blah blah blah.....)

Reactions: Like 4


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## LawnShrimp (Jan 21, 2018)

basin79 said:


> With it not being your pic mods will remove it. Feel free to circle and arrow one of these. It won't be deleted. Female Scolopendra viridicornis (I'm not fussed if she's not  the true blah blah blah.....)


I was going to take it down myself after a while (I hate it when people do stuff like what I did actually), and thanks for the viridicornis photos! The ringfurrow is very clear in those too.

Reactions: Like 1


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## JAFUENTES (Jan 21, 2018)

LeFanDesBugs said:


> The hispaniola red giants are a different species. They have no ring furrow whereas alternans do.
> Jafunentes, your pede's really cool looking. I'm getting a red giant next month. If the forum wants some pics..


Pics are always good!


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## JAFUENTES (Jan 21, 2018)

Hey lets see some uncommon Centipede photos


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## LeFanDesBugs (Jan 21, 2018)

Well.. I poste in scolopendra club v2 my Borneo black. It's the only one in the hobby for now. Until she drops eggs or someone else manages to import one !


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## CHLee (Jan 21, 2018)

LeFanDesBugs said:


> Yeah but I've certified 2 days ago by someone very experienced that they have one. I checked and I came (somehow, but I can't remember) to the conclusion that he was right. I was doubting it as well.
> But after checking again, I must have been tired. They don't seem to have any.


Who was the experienced person


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## Scoly (Jan 24, 2018)

TheHonestPirate said:


> Actually they're naturally aggressive, even when bred in captivity when it's never known natural surroundings they are still aggressive, it's in their nature, they're apex predators among the inverts in their environment.


I think centipede aggression has more to do with what's above them in the food chain than below. They are basically big juicy worms in a world of birds and lizards...

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Staehilomyces (Jan 25, 2018)

Probably explains why the SA pedes are so docile compared to most giant centipedes - they're significantly higher in the food chain than most inverts, including other pedes.


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## JAFUENTES (Feb 1, 2018)

Now if this were the case with the Puerto Rican Altrenans @Staehilomyces


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## JAFUENTES (Feb 1, 2018)

LeFanDesBugs said:


> The hispaniola red giants are a different species. They have no ring furrow whereas alternans do.
> Jafunentes, your pede's really cool looking. I'm getting a red giant next month. If the forum wants some pics..


When it comes in let me see these pictures


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## Scoly (Feb 1, 2018)

LeFanDesBugs said:


> The hispaniola red giants are a different species. They have no ring furrow whereas alternans do.
> Jafunentes, your pede's really cool looking. I'm getting a red giant next month. If the forum wants some pics..


Alternans don't have ring furrows!


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## NYAN (Feb 1, 2018)

Scoly said:


> Alternans don't have ring furrows!


What is a ring furrow exactly?


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## LeFanDesBugs (Feb 1, 2018)

Scoly said:


> Alternans don't have ring furrows!


Yes. I posted this some time ago. I've been told since that they do have a partial ring furrow, which isn't seen well in pictures.
I'm still doubting it. They may have none.
Anyway, I'll give pics of my red giant once it comes in!
@NYAN , a ring furrow is a slight dent parallel to the segments seen on the first tergite.
It is present in S. gigantea and S.galapagoensis as well as S.polymorpha, for instance. But many other species display one.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Scoly (Feb 1, 2018)

LeFanDesBugs said:


> Yes. I posted this some time ago. I've been told since that they do have a partial ring furrow, which isn't seen well in pictures.
> I'm still doubting it. They may have none.
> Anyway, I'll give pics of my red giant once it comes in!
> @NYAN , a ring furrow is a slight dent parallel to the segments seen on the first tergite.
> It is present in S. gigantea and S.galapagoensis as well as S.polymorpha, for instance. But many other species display one.


Ah, so you're Leo. I thought so! It's a fun game trying to match people on arachnoboards with people on Facebook 

I'm also simply going on high res pictures, I've not kept an alternans for about 17 years!!! So maybe they have a very subtle one. The absence of a ring furrow on Hispaniola Red Giants (I'm very jealous by the way, I was really thinking about getting one from Thorsten but the price is just too high) is interesting as it shows it is quite removed form the galapagoensis/gigantea complex.


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## Scoly (Feb 1, 2018)

@NYAN the ring furrow is the mark found on the first tergite of many South American species.

Here is ring furrow on galapagoensis:






On gigantea:






On a true viridicornis (you can just see it):






On what is sold as viridicornis in Europe and may or may not be (species from Peru):






On spinipriva:






But is not there on alternans:







Or on Hispaniola red giant (currently undescribed)


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## NYAN (Feb 1, 2018)

Thanks guys, I now learned something new!


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## LeFanDesBugs (Feb 2, 2018)

Scoly said:


> Ah, so you're Leo. I thought so! It's a fun game trying to match people on arachnoboards with people on Facebook
> 
> I'm also simply going on high res pictures, I've not kept an alternans for about 17 years!!! So maybe they have a very subtle one. The absence of a ring furrow on Hispaniola Red Giants (I'm very jealous by the way, I was really thinking about getting one from Thorsten but the price is just too high) is interesting as it shows it is quite removed form the galapagoensis/gigantea complex.


Yes I am! You should have asked hahaha . Who are you on FB by the way? I'm not too sure. 
I didn't get the red giant for the price announced on his website. I got it for 160 instead of 250!
Just ask him for specific stuff and he might have something for you. I asked for the smallest specimen he had.


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## Galapoheros (Feb 2, 2018)

LeFanDesBugs said:


> Yes I am! You should have asked hahaha . Who are you on FB by the way? I'm not too sure.
> I didn't get the red giant for the price announced on his website. I got it for 160 instead of 250!
> Just ask him for specific stuff and he might have something for you. I asked for the smallest specimen he had.


Many years ago the Hispaniola pede was thought by some scientists to be a subspinipes.  Does anybody know as fact that the Hispaniola pede is not an alternans form?  I saw what some claimed to be an alternans and it was as big as most adult SA centipedes I've seen.  It was put next to an adult gigantea, it was the same size.  But it was patterned like the typical alternans from Florida and Puerto Rico.


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## LeFanDesBugs (Feb 2, 2018)

The biggest recorded specimen was 33cm BL. A true giant.
I think they are alternans now. It's what I always thought until I was first told that alternans have ring furrows. And I didn't check. My bad.
Seeing as they don't seem to have any, I believe they might be the same species.


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## CHLee (Feb 2, 2018)

Galapoheros said:


> Many years ago the Hispaniola pede was thought by some scientists to be a subspinipes.  Does anybody know as fact that the Hispaniola pede is not an alternans form?  I saw what some claimed to be an alternans and it was as big as most adult SA centipedes I've seen.  It was put next to an adult gigantea, it was the same size.  But it was patterned like the typical alternans from Florida and Puerto Rico.


I don’t recall them ever being sold as subspinipes, have a reference to that? Back in the 2000s I remember them being sold a alternans red/ haitian red something like that


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## Galapoheros (Feb 2, 2018)

CHLee said:


> I don’t recall them ever being sold as subspinipes, have a reference to that? Back in the 2000s I remember them being sold a alternans red/ haitian red something like that


I remember it being more of an inference and what I read was probably from the 80s or 90s.  It said something like, "....there is a large subspinipes from Dominican...."  So I assumed the document was referring to the Hispaniola centipede.  This would have been when there was probably no or little hobby interest in the diddly.  It was a very short mentioning of it, I remember it being in a pdf somewhere.  I bet it was something mentioned way too soon, without taking a really good look at the pede.  They may have noticed no ring furrow so, maybe they just made a guess there.


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## CHLee (Feb 2, 2018)

Galapoheros said:


> I remember it being more of an inference and what I read was probably from the 80s or 90s.  It said something like, "....there is a large subspinipes from Dominican...."  So I assumed the document was referring to the Hispaniola centipede.  This would have been when there was probably no or little hobby interest in the diddly.  It was a very short mentioning of it, I remember it being in a pdf somewhere.  I bet it was something mentioned way too soon, without taking a really good look at the pede.  They may have noticed no ring furrow so, maybe they just made a guess there.


Oops I misread your original comment, I somehow thought you said they were sold as subspinipes or something lol


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## Scoly (Feb 2, 2018)

I think this photo of a specimen from Aruba island might sway people's opinion in favour of Red Giants being alternans 







(Photo taken from: https://mulpix.com/post/990016045720201303.html) 

It seems that back circa 2009 people were of the opinion Red Giants were simply alternans, but that has sort of dropped out of common knowledge (or perhaps it's been challenged?)

There's a thread here discussing it: http://arachnoboards.com/threads/new-centipedes.142848/page-2 (sadly photos are no longer visible).

Talking of opinions and rumours here are some (conflicting) things I've heard:
- Alternans can grow to 12" on Puerto Rico.
- Someone who got bitten by a foot long pede in Puerto Rico and had to spend a week in hospital (but that could have be a subspinipes?)
- Alternans have really potent venom (According to Michael Dixon in his youtube videos, though he may have changed his mind)
- Alternans have really weak venom (David Gray, who has take many bites from this species)
- Hispaniola Red Giants have really weak venom (I think I read that from CH Lee/ micheldied, but on Facebook?)

I wonder if the presence of S. subspinipes on these islands may be the source of confusion on venom potency with some bite reports wrongly being attributed to alternans.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Galapoheros (Feb 2, 2018)

My guess has always been Hispaniola is alternans, I wish somebody would clear it up.  I remember there was somebody(scientist/student, can't remember) trying to clear it up a few years ago but I never heard any conclusion.  The subspinipes miss-ID years ago was only trivia from me, there's no subspinipes that I know of in Puerto Rico.


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## Staehilomyces (Feb 2, 2018)

There's a recent thread on here where someone found a subspinipes at PR, initially thinking it was an alternans.


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## Galapoheros (Feb 3, 2018)

Staehilomyces said:


> There's a recent thread on here where someone found a subspinipes at PR, initially thinking it was an alternans.


Oh weird, I'll have to go check that out.


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## JAFUENTES (Feb 3, 2018)

Galapoheros said:


> Oh weird, I'll have to go check that out.


When I look at the pictures in that thread I knew that it wasn't an altrenans.  My little fella is an altrenans.


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## JAFUENTES (Feb 4, 2018)

NatureJay said:


> Nice... He's a big boy now...


8" now


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## LawnShrimp (Feb 4, 2018)

Centipedes are bloody confusing. 

Hispaniolan reds are definitely not subspinipes as they have far too many spines on their terminals. Most people including me think that they are a morph of alternans but as far as I know that hasn't been definitively proven.

Subspinipes in the Caribbean confuse me. They have very similar coloration and morphology to Hawaiian and other subspinipes from SE Asia. Two threads on AB prove that there are subspinipes in St. Lucia and Puerto Rico. Because both this species and alternans are found in PR, they may compete for resources. Also, does anyone know if subspinipes is native to the New World or introduced? It seems odd that a species with a primarily Old World distribution would be found in the Americas unless it is invasive or rafted a long way from home.

Reactions: Like 2


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## JAFUENTES (Feb 4, 2018)

@LawnShrimp  I'm liking the concept of a rafted species.  The similarities of the Scolopendra Subspinipes from the Americans is to similar to those of the old world.

Reactions: Like 1


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## cocolo2020 (Jun 16, 2020)

Galapoheros said:


> I've read the ones in Puerto Rico generally get pretty big, I also read the giant red Caribbean centipede is a color form of alternans.  Was that ever cleared up?  Years ago, a scientist or two assumed the big red ones were a subspinipes.


I have a thread where they spot a big scolopendra in Puerto Rico. I am trying to identify the specie.


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