# Please help with possibly ill White's Tree Frog (pics inside)



## Shelob (Jul 8, 2006)

So a customer stopped by my petshop to have me look at her Whites Tree Frog.  Here is the pic, as you can see it is VERY swelled up, the pics don't really do it justice.  When you set him on a smooth surface, his legs don't even fully touch the ground!






Now she has two together in the same tank, they both seem to eat the same amount of crix, but the other one is normal she says.  Now at first I am thinking of impaction, either of crix or the bedding (moist coconut fiber), but then she says "oh and I don't know if it is old enough, but I did see one of the two mounting the other one a while ago"...sounds fishy eh?  Not sure if it is even sexually mature, it is about 2.5 inches or so long.  It was very active and alert, so that made me wonder about the impaction.   I told her to take it to the vet either way for an x-ray to be on the safe side.  Sorry about the quality of the pics, taken with my cell phone.

Any suggestions?

Is it pregnant?

Thanks!


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## KennyGee (Jul 8, 2006)

Holy Hell, u shure thats a whites treefrog? damn it doesnt look anything like one. Hmm im not experianced with frogs but maybe its somekinda intestinal worm infestation?


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## Stylopidae (Jul 8, 2006)

Impaction immediately comes to mind


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## kraken (Jul 8, 2006)

It also reminds me of when amphibians kydneys aint working too well,they swell up like a baloon.If its impaction,try soaaking it in lukewarm water.It should make it poo unless its too far gone.


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## hermitman64 (Jul 8, 2006)

My first thought after seeing the picture was impaction. Here's an excerpt from amphibiancare.com:

_13. My frog or salamander is bloated, what's wrong?
When a frog is bloated it generally is filled with one of two main things, a solid or a liquid. When an amphibian appears bloated because it is full of solids it often is due to impaction. Many amphibians often accidentally swallow some of the substrate they are being kept on while they feed. Certain substrates, such as gravel or small pieces of bark, can become lodged inside of the stomach or intestine and cause problems. Amphibians that are fed a diet that is very high in chitin can also become bloated due to impaction. Sometimes whatever is stuck inside of the digestive tract will work its way out on its own, but more often this health problem requires surgery to fix.

When an amphibian appears bloated because it is full of a liquid it is often related to water quality. Amphibians have a permeable skin and are very sensitive to the chemicals in their environment. Even the chlorines and chloramines found in most tap water can cause harm, and overtime may cause damage to the kidneys. Kidney failure is common in captive amphibians and can give an amphibian a bloated appearance when they are unable to pass water. Other water quality problems can also cause medical problems that may make an amphibian look bloated, so always ensure that the water being used is safe for amphibians.

Bloating can also be caused by many other health problems such as infections and nutritional problems. In all cases, whether the frog is bloated with a solid or a liquid, it will need to be taken to a qualified veterinarian immediately. To locate a veterinarian that has experience dealing with reptiles and amphibians please see the Association of Reptile and Amphibian Veterinarians._


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## bugmankeith (Jul 8, 2006)

The legs looks very slender, so that's surely not fat. Can Bloat affect tree-dwelling frogs, like it does with african clawed frogs?


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## scottyk (Jul 8, 2006)

How is she keeping them? I had a pair of White's for about 5 years. It is very difficult to keep them alive that long. Here are a few things I learned over the years:

WTF's are "very" messy, and like all amphibians, very susceptible to bacterial problems. I suspect that is what's causing the bloat, and there is nothing you'll be able to do to save it. 

Most people try to maintain them in tanks to small to keep clean. My pair was in a 60 gallon tank, and I'd consider a 30L the minimum size for one. It should have a bare bottom with a single layer of paper towels and more than one large water bowl. WTF's favorite two activities (besides eating) are  soaking, and making a mess everywhere by urinating and defecating. The reason I suggest a bare bottom, is the tank will need to be completely flushed out every other week or so. This is with spot cleaning factored in. 

The water bowls should be changed and cleaned "every day" using filtered water. Go two and they'll smell like a urinal. The paper towels need to replaced every few days. It helps to suspend everything but the water bowls off of the bottom. The trick is to make it as convenient as possible to keep up with the maintenance routine.

If you put one of these frogs in a 10 gallon, and regularly let days go by without maintaining it, WTF's usually wont last more than a few months to a year. This is pretty dismal considering they can go 10 +. They are not a good herp for beginners or those with overly busy lives. 

I hope this post helps your customer if she tries another, and/or discourages her from doing so if she's not ready to commit the time and tank space.


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## bugmankeith (Jul 30, 2006)

Ok, it looks like dropsy....

Here is a link about curing frog illnesses...

http://www.geocities.com/heartland/meadows/5741/disease.html#drop


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## Barbedwirecat (Aug 2, 2006)

I concur! I have kept these frogs since I was about 11 years old. I had one pass away about 3 weeks ago that was over 9 years old. I keep mine in a fabricated 30 tall(the taller the better) with half water half land (divided by glass). I use a filter in the water part and have a floaty driftwood chunk in there they can hang out on, which they love to do. The tank is also planted with LIVE plants in bed-a-beast. I use sturdy snake plants (Mother-n-laws tounge) and asperigus fern and a thick type of pothos. I have never really had a problem, yes they are dirty....but really all frogs this size are. They are not as delicate as alot of people think they are and over alot of other frog species I reccomend them for begginers. You have to maitain cleanliness, I cahnged the bedding and water every 2 weeks unless i see its dirty. 

Also an intersting note on these frogs is the ENJOY being held and do release a secrestion on their skin that can help lower human blood pressure.

Let me elaborate a little more....the FULL GROWN adults are very forgiving, but juviniles are not.

And to answer the question, without an x-ray of the frog, you will never know what the problem is. You could have bacterial cultures done, but x-ray would be the cheapest and best way to start eleminting the possibilities. It looks like bloat from substrate ingestion, but secondary bacterial infections can cause this as well, and I'm really thinking this guy is past the treament stage. The best thing to do if the person does not want to spend money getting and x-ray or any other options, which if impacted will require surgery at this point becuase of the swelling of the tissues at the site and the fact if its been a bit some of the tissue may already by dead, (it can get expensive) is to humanley euthanize the frog.


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