# Choeradodis sp.



## Sarkhan42 (Jun 11, 2018)

Well, it finally happened. I finally am going to be receiving exactly 3 choeradodis nymphs sometime this week, and I am absolutely over the moon about it! I’ve been after these since I was a little kid, they’ve been a huge dream of mine. 

What I’ve heard as to care is that they require a pretty high constant humidity, and do poorly in well ventilated mesh cages do to their inability to retain the humidity they need. They apparently also require walls or foliage they can cling to and rest on, as they seldom rest upside down apart from molting. Any other tips for their care are greatly appreciated, I can use any advantages I can get. 

And of course as always, I’ll update this thread with photos as they arrive

Reactions: Love 2


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## ToxoHP (Jun 11, 2018)

Hi there, I've basically never posted here but I'll give a little background to myself, I'm a breeder of rare exotic praying mantids, including your Choeradodis. Just so I'm not some random guy, I have hatched Choeradodis myself and raised a fair few to adult. 

Not sure who you purchased them from, I'm assuming Moritz Kusche? Choeradodis are incredibly tricky. They require very high humdiity (Ooths hatch at 99% humidity), very high air flow and very picky on food. After all the years I have kept mantids, Choeradodis have to be the bitchiest species I know, and I have kept many species people believe are very hard. I do kind of have an issue with Moritz selling to people who don't have the experience or knowledge (not saying you don't at all).

As they get larger, they require foliage with large leaves, as that is how they blend in. They also prefer crawling pray, such as grasshoppers and other mantids (fruitflies are fine at L1/L2). 

I just want you to realise if they don't make it and you believe you did everything right, then don't blame yourself. Any other questions, let me know. 

All else I can say is, GOOD LUCK!

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 3


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## Sarkhan42 (Jun 11, 2018)

LamboMantisMan23 said:


> Hi there, I've basically never posted here but I'll give a little background to myself, I'm a breeder of rare exotic praying mantids, including your Choeradodis. Just so I'm not some random guy, I have hatched Choeradodis myself and raised a fair few to adult.
> 
> Not sure who you purchased them from, I'm assuming Moritz Kusche? Choeradodis are incredibly tricky. They require very high humdiity (Ooths hatch at 99% humidity), very high air flow and very picky on food. After all the years I have kept mantids, Choeradodis have to be the bitchiest species I know, and I have kept many species people believe are very hard. I do kind of have an issue with Moritz selling to people who don't have the experience or knowledge (not saying you don't at all).
> 
> ...


Thanks so much for your post, there’s a lot of fantastic content in it. I think I recognize your profile picture from facebook, so no worries on trying to make clear your credibility 

I’ve got plenty of invert rearing and mantis rearing experience with a variety of species, but it does sound quite daunting. I’m definitely attempting to gather as much information as I can to help these little ones succeed. 

I’m actually not receiving them from the vendor you stated. I’m in the US funny enough, as rare as they are out here. 

Is there a particular temperature range you keep them successfully at? Just wondering if I’ll need to provide supplemental heating or if I’ll need to keep them in a different room to maintain correct conditions.


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## ToxoHP (Jun 11, 2018)

You’re in the US with Choeradodis nymphs? Jesus I don’t even wanna know the price you paid. 

As for temperate, I keep mine at 24-28 in the day, then down to 18 at night. Day time should be 80% humidity, night should be 99%. 

Also, were you told what species it was? Choeradodis rhombicollis is the easiest and is so much less stress than others.

If you send photos, I can ID them. My guess is that it is either C. rhombicollis or C. rhomboidea.


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## Sarkhan42 (Jun 11, 2018)

LamboMantisMan23 said:


> You’re in the US with Choeradodis nymphs? Jesus I don’t even wanna know the price you paid.
> 
> As for temperate, I keep mine at 24-28 in the day, then down to 18 at night. Day time should be 80% humidity, night should be 99%.
> 
> ...


The seller received them as simply choeradodis sp, so I’ll be sure to post pictures for ID. I also won them in an auction so the price was actually excellent, I got incredibly lucky. I’ve dealt with the seller  on multiple occasions before and they’ve been nothing but excellent as well, otherwise I would be far more skeptical. 

Again, thanks for all your help!


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## ToxoHP (Jun 11, 2018)

Sarkhan42 said:


> The seller received them as simply choeradodis sp, so I’ll be sure to post pictures for ID. I also won them in an auction so the price was actually excellent, I got incredibly lucky. I’ve dealt with the seller  on multiple occasions before and they’ve been nothing but excellent as well, otherwise I would be far more skeptical.
> 
> Again, thanks for all your help!


Ahhhhhh you got them from Cheryl. Hmmmm... well I won’t go into seller drama or whatever, but auctioning off Choeradodis to random people isn’t the best thing to do, however it’s not something I wouldn’t see Cheryl doing lol.

Anyyywaayy, good luck with them.


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## Sarkhan42 (Jun 14, 2018)

Of course there was a “processing exception” at a USPS facility and so it didn’t get here today . No updates through tracking since yesterday either. Of course it had to happen with some of the most fragile inverts I’ve ever ordered.


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## ToxoHP (Jun 15, 2018)

Sarkhan42 said:


> Of course there was a “processing exception” at a USPS facility and so it didn’t get here today . No updates through tracking since yesterday either. Of course it had to happen with some of the most fragile inverts I’ve ever ordered.


Damm that sucks. I wish I could be the bearer of better news, but whenever that's happened to me, I never got the package  You may still get it though, hopefully in time.


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## Sarkhan42 (Jun 15, 2018)

By some stroke of luck they arrived at the post office for pickup this morning. Unfortunately I won’t be able to pick them up until I’m out of work, but I’m relieved that they’re here at least.


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## Sarkhan42 (Jun 15, 2018)

Well I’m blown away. Out of 6, not 3, 6, that were sent, 4 are healthy L2 nymphs, one is a healthy L1, and unfortunately one casualty. Pictures to come after I get more cups for the extra few.


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## Sarkhan42 (Jun 15, 2018)



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## ToxoHP (Jun 15, 2018)

Damm man, well done! Make sure you cover the top with fine mesh.

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## Sarkhan42 (Jun 17, 2018)

Well, the one that was an instar behind molted but fell, however I managed to catch it quickly and prop him up to dry fast enough that he should be able to recover with some special attention. The rest outright refuse any food I’ve offered outside of pre killed pieces, but are doing very well and are lively.


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## Sarkhan42 (Jul 5, 2018)

They’re all doing fabulously well and have molted! Well, not all... Unfortunately the same one that fell before fell again, and is now down to 1 leg plus raptorials... still lively but I’m not quite sure if I’ll be able to get him to molt from here. I may need to set up some kind of a molting harness or at worst, let him go

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## Sarkhan42 (Jul 10, 2018)

Another update, unfortunately the one that Mis molted twice has passed. The others are doing fabulously well, and I’ve been able to sex one as female. 

Some important things I’ve noticed with feeding- like Tox mentioned at first they were a massive pain to get eating. However, I began to realize that once I got them eating if I stayed out of their field of view, they’d eat the prey item in its entirety if they had room for it. Otherwise they spook incredibly easily and were primarily attentive to me. Their usual response to a threat is flatten out completely(see above) which basically means goodbye prey item. 

Another thing is due to their body shape it can be a little
More difficult to tell if they’re full at early instars, or if they’re simply scared of prey. To circumvent this I’ve been feeding pre killed, however I’ll attach some pictures so it’s easier to get an idea of what’s full and what isn’t. It becomes far easier to tell the larger they get, but they had me personally worried at first so I figure it’s something worth noting for future keepers.

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## Sarkhan42 (Jul 11, 2018)

Choeradodis stalii perhaps? @ToxoHP


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## ToxoHP (Jul 12, 2018)

Sarkhan42 said:


> View attachment 280687
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> Choeradodis stalii perhaps? @ToxoHP


Unfortunately not. Probably some local variety of C. rhomboidea


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## Sarkhan42 (Jul 13, 2018)

Positively stunning. Absolutely floored to have this beautiful female doing well.


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## Sarkhan42 (Jul 19, 2018)

Finally got an opportunity to sex them all while cleaning up cages, and it seems like I have 3 males and 1 female. A little bit of a bummer, but I’m glad I at least have both sexes! Working on feeding the female generously now, and regulating the intake of the males.

Reactions: Love 1


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## ToxoHP (Jul 20, 2018)

Sarkhan42 said:


> View attachment 281362
> View attachment 281363
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> 
> Finally got an opportunity to sex them all while cleaning up cages, and it seems like I have 3 males and 1 female. A little bit of a bummer, but I’m glad I at least have both sexes! Working on feeding the female generously now, and regulating the intake of the males.


I’d say 1 female and 3 males is pretty ideal from my experience as long as you keep the female alive and treat her like a princess lol. The more males you have the better. The females like to munch on the males. Their diet in the wild mostly consists of grasshoppers and other mantids so be careful.

They’re looking gorgeous though, nice work.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Sarkhan42 (Jul 20, 2018)

ToxoHP said:


> I’d say 1 female and 3 males is pretty ideal from my experience as long as you keep the female alive and treat her like a princess lol. The more males you have the better. The females like to munch on the males. Their diet in the wild mostly consists of grasshoppers and other mantids so be careful.
> 
> They’re looking gorgeous though, nice work.


Thanks, I’m glad they’re all doing so well! As of now I’m giving the female about twice as much food as the males, however they’re all getting fed on the same schedule. 

In your experience, what’s the most effective method of properly staggering growth between sexes? I want to avoid cooling down the males if possible, seeing as they’re so sensitive.


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## Sarkhan42 (Jul 20, 2018)

The female in question, who rejected food today but decided to let me take her picture.


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## ToxoHP (Jul 20, 2018)

Sarkhan42 said:


> Thanks, I’m glad they’re all doing so well! As of now I’m giving the female about twice as much food as the males, however they’re all getting fed on the same schedule.
> 
> In your experience, what’s the most effective method of properly staggering growth between sexes? I want to avoid cooling down the males if possible, seeing as they’re so sensitive.


I simply give them less food, this staggers them enough in my experience.

That photo of the female is awesome! I can see why she refused, she’s fat as hell.

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## Sarkhan42 (Jul 20, 2018)

ToxoHP said:


> I simply give them less food, this staggers them enough in my experience.
> 
> That photo of the female is awesome! I can see why she refused, she’s fat as hell.


Also got this sweet threat posture from a male! Not as good of a photo because my phone was freaking out, but glad to at least capture the moment.

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## Sarkhan42 (Aug 18, 2018)

After removing the leaves and feeding heavily, my female has molted wonderfully ahead of the males! Still just so stunning.

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## Sarkhan42 (Aug 30, 2018)

Just some updates on my favorite mantis- rehoused into a beautiful new palace, eating well and behaving wonderfully for the camera!

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## Chelbelle (Aug 31, 2018)

So perfect!  Maybe one day i'll dive into these guys.

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## Sarkhan42 (Sep 9, 2018)

Molted again, and looking like she’s Sub adult now mayhaps? Still a molt ahead of the boys so fingers crossed when it comes to breeding.

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## Sarkhan42 (Sep 28, 2018)

Managed to get my hands on a second female, she’s 8th instar and one of my three males has just molted to 7th instar. Adults aren’t too far off now

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## Sarkhan42 (Oct 2, 2018)

Sub adult male being rehoused this morning, just absolutely stunning. Expecting a molt from the other female tonight, fingers crossed!

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## Sarkhan42 (Oct 23, 2018)

It is with an extremely heavy heart that I must announce that I’ve lost my larger sub adult female. Immediately after her last molt, she began having issues passing frass and showed significant bloating, what I suspect was an internal infection. I did my best to keep her cleaned up and cared for hoping she would pull through, but it was in vain. 

The good news is I still have males, and my second smaller female is showing signs of molting within the next week or two. Hopefully they can carry on the genetic legacy of that beautiful girl that didn’t quite make it.

Reactions: Sad 2


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## ToxoHP (Oct 23, 2018)

Sarkhan42 said:


> View attachment 290215
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> 
> ...


That's a shame, man. I saw you were feeding them a lot of mealworms, which are very fatty and not the best, especially Choera and their sensitive digestive system. I suggest moving to red runners, flies, bees and moths, and only use mealworms when absolutely necessary and have nothing else to feed. 

Let's hope the other female makes it


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## Sarkhan42 (Oct 23, 2018)

ToxoHP said:


> That's a shame, man. I saw you were feeding them a lot of mealworms, which are very fatty and not the best, especially Choera and their sensitive digestive system. I suggest moving to red runners, flies, bees and moths, and only use mealworms when absolutely necessary and have nothing else to feed.
> 
> Let's hope the other female makes it


Yeah I’ve been trying to transition to red runners and flies but my red runners aren’t  breeding quite as fast as I’d like yet. Any suggestions for culturing flies? In the past I’ve always had issues having adults when I need them, and end up having huge population explosions at bad times.


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## Sarkhan42 (Nov 5, 2018)

ToxoHP said:


> That's a shame, man. I saw you were feeding them a lot of mealworms, which are very fatty and not the best, especially Choera and their sensitive digestive system. I suggest moving to red runners, flies, bees and moths, and only use mealworms when absolutely necessary and have nothing else to feed.
> 
> Let's hope the other female makes it


Everything looked to be just fine, Cheryl’s female was eating well and showed good hood shape adjustment for molt. I cranked up the moisture right before molt as recommended by Brian, but she just didn’t molt. Hung out for 2 days looking perfect to go, but she was never able to break the old exoskeleton and died hanging there.

My boys are headed to Brian to hopefully mate with the female he’s got. 

Super frustrating to have all my issues at the very end, having gotten these shipped to me L1 and flawless up until sub adult. I just hope my males and Brian’s female can do what needs to be done to continue the species in the hobby.


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## Sarkhan42 (Sep 11, 2019)

Apologies for the image quality, but I finally have a second chance at breeding these guys in this beautiful female! I have her set up with live pothos and on a varied diet, along with plenty of humidity, ventilation, and mesh to molt from. Hopefully this time around everything will come together for a strong and healthy adult molt.

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## mantisfan101 (Sep 11, 2019)

I WANT!!! Good luck on this attempt, they almost look like little trilobites with their pronotum and their wing buds. It’s like a really overexaggerated rhombodera.

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## Sarkhan42 (Sep 11, 2019)

mantisfan101 said:


> I WANT!!! Good luck on this attempt, they almost look like little trilobites with their pronotum and their wing buds. It’s like a really overexaggerated rhombodera.


I adore them but damn are they incredibly frustrating. I had another presub female as well but she fell from the pothos while molting  they're just so sensitive it seems. Everyone else I've talked to has had identical issues with the adult molt, and those that have gotten adults have had absolutely 0 luck breeding(in the US at least).


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## Arthroverts (Sep 12, 2019)

Oh man, that has got to be insanely frustrating. They are such a beautiful species; but I guess the struggle is what makes it worth it when success is finally found. I'm hoping you have a breakthrough @Sarkhan42!

Thanks,

Arthroverts


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## ElytraXD (May 30, 2020)

Man! What I would do to get my hands on one of these! Amazing! Hope the breeding went well!


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## MrGhostMantis (Jun 15, 2020)

Any updates?

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## Sarkhan42 (Jun 16, 2020)

MrGhostMantis said:


> Any updates?


Unfortunately nothing good so far. I was never successful with them, and everyone I’m aware of that works with them in the states has yet to produce nymphs, though I have seen some breeding.

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## ElytraXD (Jun 16, 2020)

I will be hopefully getting this species very soon. Do you  have any tips for the care ?


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## Sarkhan42 (Jun 16, 2020)

ElytraXD said:


> I will be hopefully getting this species very soon. Do you  have any tips for the care ?


It seems the most success has come from live planted vivariums that can keep good humidity, along with feeding mostly red runner roaches or moths. No flies, and no mealworms. Open flat spaces like leaves are generally very important for them to rest on.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## ElytraXD (Jun 16, 2020)

Thanks you. Do you think dubia roaches will be okay?


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## Arthroverts (Jun 16, 2020)

ElytraXD said:


> Thanks you. Do you think dubia roaches will be okay?


Dubias would burrow too quickly I'm thinking...

Thanks,

Arthroverts

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## Sarkhan42 (Jun 16, 2020)

ElytraXD said:


> Thanks you. Do you think dubia roaches will be okay?


If you can get them to take them they might be alright. Choera are EXTREMELY finicky eaters, it’s a struggle to get them to take prey without spooking them. The movement has to be just right to get them to take live.

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## ElytraXD (Jun 16, 2020)

I heard that there is trouble getting the oothecae of this genus to hatch. Has anyone resolved this issue so far or not? Also, what conditions do you find best to keep them in? Thanks.


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## Sarkhan42 (Jun 16, 2020)

ElytraXD said:


> I heard that there is trouble getting the oothecae of this genus to hatch. Has anyone resolved this issue so far or not? Also, what conditions do you find best to keep them in? Thanks.


Unfortunately I’m not familiar with how to hatch ootheca of this species, I’ve never made it that far. All I’ve heard is they require exceptionally high humidity constantly.

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## mantisfan101 (Jun 17, 2020)

Apparently lepidopterans are better feeders for them


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## paumotu (Jun 17, 2020)

Maybe certain arboreal roaches would make good feeders for them.


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## mantisfan101 (Jun 17, 2020)

ElytraXD said:


> I will be hopefully getting this species very soon. Do you  have any tips for the care ?


As seen above, unless you have had substantial experience with many other intermediate mantids and vivariums, I would not suggest keeping them and go for other leaf minicking species like rhombodera valida or stallii. The only success that I have heard from was from people who kept them in setups with tropical broad-leafed plants and fed them almost entirely, if not completely, off of live moths and butterflies. They are also extremely prone to random die-offs and are still relatively new to the hobby. If I were you, I’d leave this one to the professionals and focus on some other easier species.

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## ElytraXD (Jun 18, 2020)

I have had experience with quite a few mantises before.

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## mantisfan101 (Jun 18, 2020)

That’s definitely good, experience with sp that need higher humidity and empusids would probably help, just wanted to say that compared to most others these are in a completely different ballpark.

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