# need help with community tank



## ironfist (Jan 19, 2004)

Hello, I am absolutely new to invertibrate husbandry. I have limited knowledge but I would like to set up a 65 gallon terrarium with as many different species as practical......roaches, beetles, walking sticks, sow bugs, mantids, millipedes......any advice on species that will get along, design features of tank, sources of information. I met a nice pet store guy that will set me a Madagascar colony but they're glass climbers.......??????? please help me out....this is for me, my kids and my students. If it goes well I'll probably graduate to arachnids, scorpions, centipedes.....thanks, ironfist


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## Navaros (Jan 19, 2004)

Well stick insects are illegal in Canada and the US first of all. If you kept them with mantids the mantids would eat thm much faster than they could reproduce. Sowbugs would be safe drom pretty much anything in the tank. I think you would be safe with some sowbugs and millipedes together and maybe some mantids as long as there were lots of branches, and you keep them well fedd so they didn't eat each other. I would use a species like Phyllocrania paradoxa since they can be kept communally if well fed. All I can really think of, but you may be able to get away with roaches also, a quickly reproducing species would probably be best and would keep the mantids well fed. If I was going to try setting up a tank like that I would probably keep assassins in it instead of mantids. Not sure if they would hurt the millipedes but they would love the sowbugs. Not an insect I would want around children though.


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## ironfist (Jan 20, 2004)

*a couple more roach questions...*

Thanks for the response.....would Madagascars be a good idea in a tank like this ? I really don't want to vaseline the top. Any recommendations for roacch species that don't climb. It sounds like the food chain needs to be respected......mantids,sow bugs,millipedes, and a few species of roaches........do roach species inter-breed ? is there an insect that will clean the tank of waste ? any suggestions on substrate, plants, different elevations ? any beetle species that could be thrown into the mix ? Thanks, sorry for all the questions...i feel like a kid...ironfist


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## Navaros (Jan 20, 2004)

Well, the sowbugs will take care of a lot of the waste. Roachers, I'm not sure about. I think you would be better off without any live plants and make sure you let the roach colony get established before you add any mantids, be prepared, if you try this out the whole thing could backfire. If I wan gonna try it I would use B. dubia for the roaches I think.


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## Iowa T Keeper (Jan 20, 2004)

Sounds like a cool idea, but I am afraid it could be quite difficult.  You may need to buy more things and replenish populations artifically more than you would like.  I say go for it tho and tell us how it turns out


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## Navaros (Jan 21, 2004)

The species I would use would be any sownug (pill bug) from the woods near your house or if you wanted some more pretty species some people have them on this site. A few AGB millipedes or a smaller more colorful african species. Phyllocrania paradoxa mantids since they are A.) Awesome looking, B.)Can live communally if well fed, C.)They probably won't walk down onto the floor of the cage. The roach species IMO should be strictly fruit/veggie eaters, you don't want them eating your mantid oothecas (just a guess that they would). Set the tank up as you would for the millipedes substrate-wise and then add a lot of clumbing branches for the mantids.


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## Wade (Jan 21, 2004)

Cockroaches and millipedes should get along famously.

I'd recomend Blaberus giganteus for this particular set up. They are very large, can't climb glass, and don't reproduce in the huge numbers other popular species do (so they're less likley to completely take over.

If you cover the bottom of the tank with natural leaf litter and include a few rotten logs, you can have all sorts of things going on in there. Here's a few:

Bess beetles, Odontotaenius disjunctus, native to most of North America. These glossy black beetlles are about 1.5 inches long and dig tunnels and galleries through rotten wood. Easy to keep and can be handled by children with no harm to either the kids or the bugs. They have a lifespan of several years.

Narceus americanus - These millipedes look like a miniature version of the African giants. The get up to 4" long and feed on rotten wood, in fact I keep mine with my bess beetles!

Darkling beetles- this family includes the popular mealworm and superworm beetles, but many others are intersting to keep. Eleodes is a genus native to the western US that get about an inch long, are active on the surface often, and fun to watch. They've been known to live over 10 years! They eat almost anything, I offer a dish of a commercial cricket diet. Not really dangerous, but they can stink up your hands if handled!

Harvestmen, or daddy long legs - will feed on smaller insects, as well as scavange off of mushrooms etc. Harmless to the handler.

Velvet ants - actually, they're wasps but the females are wingless and so look like large furry ants. Females lay eggs on the pupae and eggs of other insects and their larvae are parsites, but the adults are nectar feeders and enjoy shallow dishes of sugary liquids. These can give a powerful sting, which could be fatal to a person who's allergic to bee or wasp stings, so possibly not a good choice in the classroom. I love 'em, however!

Hercules beetles - Dynastes granti and D. tityus are awsome insects available in NA (the even bigger ones from south and central America unfortunately aren't). Adults feed on sugary liquids and sweet fruits, and larvae eat rotten wood. Larvae might have problems pupating in community tank, however.

Anyway, that's just a few off the top of my head. Sounds like a fun project!

Wade


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## Navaros (Jan 21, 2004)

Hey Wade, you keep velvet ants in captivity? How are you doing it? I would LOVE to keep some of those.


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## Wade (Jan 21, 2004)

Keeping them is easy. I use a sand/peat mix (I think most of the standard substrates are fine) a few inches thick with pieces of bark on the surface for shelter. I keep it on the dry side, but moisten it a little once a week or so. Ideally, I try to let the surface be dry while the lower layer is a little moist. I use a plastic jar lid as a dish and offer watered-down maple syrup (same as for my hercules beetles) with a little paper towel in it to keep them from getting stuck or drowning. I change this two or three times a week. They will also take sugar water, or sliced sweet fruits like grapes or oranges. The adult females are pretty long lived, I've had individuals live nearly two years.

Breeding them is annother story, I haven't had any luck with that yet. You need to find an acceptable host. I've got some Zoophobas pupae in with them now, but no sign of success yet.

Wade


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## Navaros (Jan 21, 2004)

Thanks for the info!   I didn't know they lived that long. I want some! How many can you keep in a tank and what size tank? I have read that in the wild the larvae parisitize bee larvae, maybe this will work in captivity with wax worms? The males seem like they would be pretty safe pets for kids since they lack a stinger, but females are a different story. Any idea where I can get a few to try my luck with Wade?


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## Wade (Jan 21, 2004)

Since the adults only eat sweet liquids, you can keep any number in the tank together, they don't seem to mind one annother. I currently have two in a two gallon container. 

Apparently, they only parsitize the inactive stages of other insects, meaning pupae or eggs. Wax worms might work, but I'm afraid they might be too small. I'd like to try to extract some carpenter bee pupae from some of the old boards around here!

It's true that the males can't sting, but they can fly. I'm not sure how long they live.

The only place I know of that sells them is Hatari Invertebrates, they sometimes offer some of the southwest species that look very different from the one I posted.  I would think you could collect Dasymutilla occidentalis in New Jersey, you just have to be at the right place at the right time! They seem to favor open areas with sandy soil, where they can be found running along searching for the burrows of ground-nesting bees. Since they're solitary, you never see more than one at a time.

Wade


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## Navaros (Jan 21, 2004)

Cool thanks for the info. I will keep my eye out for them. I will get some from Hitari, have seen them on their site before and wanted them but I didn't thinky ou could actually keep them. I don't see why wax worms wouldn't work, they are good enough to fool bees.  Hitari is the company that sells those honey pot ants that I want too. Still can't find much info on keeping them though.


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## Wade (Jan 21, 2004)

How big is a waxworm pupae? How big the adult velvet ant is will depend on how much the larvae gets to eat. If the waxworm pupae is as big as a bee pupae, it might be fine. It's worth a shot. I may have to try it.

Thanks for the suggestion!

Wade


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## Navaros (Jan 21, 2004)

No problem.   They can get pretty fat maybe an inch long? Never fed them before so I am not sure how big they have the potential to get. Should be the same size as bee pupae though. Was moths lay eggs in bee hives, the bees take care of the larvae the same as they would with their own larvae until they pupate and fly away. You can get some was worms at a pet store for like $1.00 a dozen. Let me know how it works!!


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## syndicate (Dec 8, 2005)

whoa thats weird that website sells queen honeypot ants.i was under the impession sending queens through the mail was illegal.or sending most species of ants through the mail dead or alive for the matter


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## Wade (Dec 9, 2005)

Most of Hatari's business is with museums, zoos and other permitted facilities. They may not sell some animals to private individuals.

Wade


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## Stylopidae (Dec 9, 2005)

Wade: How about mimicking a bee burrow with zophobas pupae?


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## Wade (Dec 9, 2005)

I tried it once and it didn't work. Zophobas are surprisingly active pupae!

Wade


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## padkison (Dec 9, 2005)

*Mixed Colony*

The kids and I kept a colony of bess beetles, north american millipedes, slugs, garden snails and a click beetle grub last summer.  The bess beetles lived in a rotting oak log.  Highly reccomend the bess beetles.  We easily caught a dozen just in and under logs behind the house.  They are noisy and fun to handle.

We used regular outside dirt at the time.  The millipedes, slugs and snails love sliced cucumber or summer squash. 

We released all the bess beetles and now have a mixed colony of millipedes, including one african giant, slugs, snails, a mole cricket, and type of rhino beetle.  Currently using eco-earth.  All the critters like it moist and are active when it gets dark.

Toads like the american toad and fowlers toad also make a good terrarium setup.  They tame up quickly and readily eat mealworms and crickets.  We have a setup with 3 american toads and a fowlers toad in eco-earth with hide boxes (small flower pots on their side work well).  Also a small water dish for them to soak is good.  The kids and I very much enjoy the toads.  They are comical in their frenzy to feed and they all have different personalities.  One toad is so placid my daughter takes it out and puts in it her doll house and rides it around on a toy tricycle.  You want to have clean hands when handling toads because they absorb through their skin.

Toads can be housed with certain insects like larger millipedes, but have a tendency to stuff anything small enough into their mouth to try and eat.


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