# why would she bite me........?



## insane247 (Mar 22, 2011)

so today i went to pick up my rosea. i usually guide her into my hand. the first touch or two usually startles her, but she calms down and realizes it's just me and walks into my hand. today she flinched, then the second time i touched her she kicked a hair off on me. she did that three times and then i decided to leave her alone, but she was in the way of where i put the hide so i tried to move her so i would not crush her leg or something and she bit me!

the reason why this is so wierd is because i have had her since october and she has never shown any agression to me before. sometimes she is scared but once she knows it's me she calms down. she has never so much as kicked a hair off on me let alone bite me! and she is not molting because she just ate 3 crickets yesterday. (i gave her more than usual because i could not get to the pet store last week and she went almost a week without food)

can anyone tell me reasons why a dostile breed like this and a member of it that is dostile compared to others would bite when i did nothing that i dont normally do? i am so gob-smacked about this whole thing


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## Spiderman24 (Mar 22, 2011)

Because she is a tarantula... docile or not they can and will bite.... she gave you fair warning like you said three time kicking hairs at you saying "hey leave me alone stop touching me" then the last time she felt cornered and resorted to her last known defense a bite. Every tarantula has moods and the labled docile tarantulas is only there to say it will tolerate more then others. like I can say my p.miranda is docile because she let's me hold her for ages and never threat displays. but that doesn't mean she won't bite me if I don't take to her warnings. Whether you want to believe it or not a rose hair is still a tarantula and still a wild animal. I can honestly say most of my pokies are "docile" because they let me hold them, but I never think for even a second oh they won't bite me never. because in fact they can and if they want to they will. so take into consideration and give it a lesson learned if she kicks hairs at you that's your one warning take it and leave her alone. 

But to answer your rudimentary question she could be hungry in premolt pissy cause you didn't leave her alone numerous things

---------- Post added at 01:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:23 AM ----------

I'm sorry if I came off rude but I found your question pretty ridiculous. I mean come on you answered it yourself she kicked at you three times. that's why she bit


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## Mojo Jojo (Mar 22, 2011)

01. You tried to pick her up.
02. She flinched.
03. You tried to pick her up.
04. She kicked hairs.
05. You tried to pick her up.
06. She kicked hairs
07. You tried to pick her up.
08. She kicked hairs.
09. You tried to pick her up.
10. She bit you.

If this was a highly defensive tarantula, then it may have gone down like this:

1. You tried to pick her up.
2. She bit you.

I think the lesson here should be that you should have put her hide somewhere else.


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## Spiderman24 (Mar 22, 2011)

Very well put dragonfly lol


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## insane247 (Mar 22, 2011)

i guess i understand that i bothered her too much. but she has never even so much as given me warnings. and i do handle her a lot


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## RyTheTGuy (Mar 22, 2011)

Dragonfly pretty much said everything that needed to be said.


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## Spiderman24 (Mar 22, 2011)

Tarantulas have there days man. like just an hour ago my p.ornata threw me a threat display and she's usually calm as a Hindu cow


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## insane247 (Mar 22, 2011)

thanks spiderman. my question isnt really why she bit me, is why is she out of character. i know every being has a day with a bad mood. the reason why i found this so wierd is because in 6 months this is her first moody day


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## Spiderman24 (Mar 22, 2011)

Hmmm has the temperature dropped in your house? Rehousing cleaning? Anything that might cause a bit of stress that's out of the ordinary maybe loud noises in the room she's kept in?


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## Lolita (Mar 22, 2011)

typically if any of mine threat display in any way (hair kicking posturing ect) i leave them alone and move onto another T to play with if i feel like messing with them cause they do have their moods docile or not


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## xhexdx (Mar 22, 2011)

Tarantulas don't have 'character' and they don't have 'moods'.  They're spiders.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Upjohn252 (Mar 22, 2011)

Its very welll known that Rose hairs are moody, and are prone to very rapid, sharp mood swings .


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## Spiderman24 (Mar 22, 2011)

I disagree with that xhexdx how does it not have moods? They are a lifeform right I mean a cat is only a cat but it can be a bit moody aye? I dog is a dog but it can them around and bite at any point because of a mood. I mean if a dog has a broken leg it is in pain right? Obviously. and you can have owned it for years so it knows you right? Right. then one day you while its limping around. you pet it. it growls at you. is that not a mood? It is only a dog after all? That's like saying a spider can feel pain. and how do you explain the whole spiders on drugs ordeal? I mean they used caffeine and caffeine is a mood altering substance through endorphines. causing you to be hyper and such. changing your mood. and spiders do have endorphines do they not?

---------- Post added at 02:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:08 AM ----------

Yes all spiders have "character" and moods


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## insane247 (Mar 22, 2011)

ok so (i dont remember who) said that a change in environment could be the cause. usually when i buy crickets they are all quiet. but this batch has had one chirper in it. could hearing the chirping cause her to act like that? i haven't touched her since i got this batch of crickets so it is possible right?

---------- Post added at 12:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:21 AM ----------

and upjohn i have heard the opposite, that they are one of the most tolerant breeds of tarantulas

---------- Post added at 12:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:22 AM ----------

xhexdx r u nuts? r u one of those people that think humans r the only beings to have feelings? god anyone who thinks that has never owned a pet and has never seen an animal demonstrate love, sadness, anger, etc. insects and arachnids have all the same feelings, moods, and behaviours of mammals and humans. anything with a brain has feelings. the brain is not just for directing the body. this is so for all living things with brains. even living things without brains have behaviour

---------- Post added at 12:34 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:31 AM ----------

another question? what is posturing? is that when she has her front legs up? because that's what she did but i have seen her do that when she is just trying to feel what is there. (like if im pouring her water or if she is crawling up the branch thingy but sizing it up first). jeeze when i bought her i thought i knew a lot about animals, especially spiders.


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## Mojo Jojo (Mar 22, 2011)

Three things that might be helpful to google here:

1. The fight or flight response
2. The story of the scorpion and the frog
3. Anthropomorphism

You will see the wiki links in my new signature.


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## insane247 (Mar 22, 2011)

Big Dragonfly i get u but i am really just trying to narrow down the cause of her moodiness. because, like i said, this is way out of character for her. like the flight or flight response makes sense because she was scared. but the tale of the scorpion and the frog doesnt exactly match up. i know, she is a spider. but dont you think typical behaviour provides somewhat of an exception to that story. a scorpion stings a. because it can b. because that is scorpion behaviour. but the story would likely have a different outcome if the spider does not behave agressively in general and has never done so in my ownership of her. it's just like saying a person will get mad if you poke him repeatedly. but say one particular person is practically gandhi. because he is a person, poking him is likely to get him mad. but this person has an extremely good temperment and the poking does not bother him. but one day he knocks a person out for poking him just once. the behaviour would seem out of character and the question would not be what caused him to get mad and knock the person out. because he was poked. but the question would be is why did he get mad this time when the other times he did not. get my drift. that is really what i am trying to find out. what is the cause of her out of character mood that made her react this way when she never reacts this way


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## Lolita (Mar 22, 2011)

i seriously love that one off the hand comment about the word choice mood turned into this i didn't mean mood in the sense of peoples moods more like temperment changes due to several factors from a day to day basis their just spiders yeah they don't have moods but i figured the word mood would make people get the gist of what i was saying but apparently not haha i guess when it comes to being around here choosing your words wisely is a bit of an understatement. next time try reading between the lines a little to the point i was trying to make which was in short spiders aren't docile some have naturally better temperments than others but still can be easily freaked out into biting kicking hairs posturing ect because they're a spider and guess what they don't like to snuggle they don't like to pal around like a dog they can sometimes tolerate handling but if your gonna handle at some point you'll get bit understanding that is simple. she warned you you didn't listen the consequences of your actions happened and to answer your question posturing is when they rear up at you in a threatening way its a threat posture basically i'm warning you from them and it's referred to as posturing for short.

sorry if this came off as me being grumpy i just felt like assumptions were made about what i said based on one word out of a sentence which basically boiled down to their spiders sometimes their pissed off, also i have spent the last hour on the phone with my sister because her dog had to be put down and i hate phones and death.


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## Mojo Jojo (Mar 22, 2011)

It bit you because it felt threatened.  Why did it feel threatened when it normally doesn't feel threatened?  I'd have to guess because of something environmental or physiological.  

Environmental:  Have there been any changes to the enclosure like substrate, humidity, or temperature? Have you moved the enclosure?  If it is an place where there is more foot traffic, all the vibrations might be bothering it.  

Physiological: Is it hungry/full?  When was the last time your tarantula molted?  Is it captive bred or wild caught?  I ask because it is possible that some male made sweet love to her before she got caught and if she hasn't molted yet in your presence, maybe the little ones are just coming along more.


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## insane247 (Mar 22, 2011)

she was bred in captivity, and nothing else has changed like temperature, humidity etc. but i did ask perhaps no one saw, i said there has been a chirping cricket in this new batch. could the sound of the cricket make her agressive. because i see it all the time in reptiles where when they know there is food around (smell, sound etc) or they know it is time to eat they behave agressively and will often bite, and it is not a mistake of thinking the hand is food or whatever. they just act agressive when they want to eat. so can the sound of the cricket cause her to be agressive like how reptiles do?

and she has never molted since i bought her. but i dont think that is the cause because she is not refusing food or drinking extra and she moves around the cage a lot.

---------- Post added at 01:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:32 AM ----------

you asked if she is hungry or full. i fed her yesterday more than normal because i could not get any crickets for almost a week so i gave her two and then one was chirping so i fed that to her as well because it was annoying me. but there still is one chirping and i have kept the container of crickets in the bathroom so i cant hear it at night but you can still hear it enough to know it is there. so there could be the fact that she is both full and can hear the cricket


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## hennioso (Mar 22, 2011)

Lolita said:


> typically if any of mine threat display in any way (hair kicking posturing ect) i leave them alone and move onto another T to play with if i feel like messing with them cause they do have their moods docile or not


 Well put Spiderman... I don't care how calm you thnk they are they will do whatever it takes to keep out of what they think is harms way... You better learn to read their body language a little more..


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## insane247 (Mar 22, 2011)

ok i get it but i just wanna know if the cricket chirping or extra feeding made her agressive. no one has answered that yet and i would like to know for future reference so i know when not to bother her


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## Hobo (Mar 22, 2011)

insane247 said:


> ok i get it but i just wanna know if the cricket chirping or extra feeding made her agressive. no one has answered that yet and i would like to know for future reference so i know when not to bother her


I don't know but I doubt it.

But maybe next time, if you prod her (don't use your hands!) and she reacts defensively, consider that a sign not to bother her.


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## Sidi (Mar 22, 2011)

"She was bred in captivity" but she is not domesticated! Its still a wild animal, it was just bred in captivity, she still has all her wild instincts, so she will be unpredictable just like a wild animal.


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## insane247 (Mar 22, 2011)

i guess i just should not assume that her not biting until today does not mean never. like you cant say "i have not died yet. so that means im never gonna die"


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## Sidi (Mar 22, 2011)

Basically it means she will bite whenever she pleases, take the warnings and handle her based on those warning, I'm no T expert, but from the predators Ive kept my motto is "you handle something that can bite, be prepared to be bitten"


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## Londoner (Mar 22, 2011)

Your T cannot hear a chirping cricket. They don't have ears, They use their setae (bristles) to sense changes in air currents caused by sound waves. She would only "sense" the chirping if the cricket were inside her enclosure.

As far as feeding goes, your T could go much, much longer than a week without food and still be fine. I wouldn't have thought that the extra feeding caused the bite. It doesn't sound like a food response from your description.

I know _G. rosea_ is seen as the standard starter T within the hobby but I don't agree. They just happen to be the most commonly stocked species in petstores. IME there are other species that make much better first Ts. I'd usually recommend _B. albopilosum_ (curlyhair) to someone wanting to get into the hobby before mentioning _G. rosea_.

Oh, and I agree with xhexdx when it comes to emotions. You can't equate a tarantula's brain with a mammal's. They possess extremely rudimentary brains (ganglions) that are incompatible with experiencing emotions.

Good luck .


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## Spiderman24 (Mar 22, 2011)

Londoner said:


> Your T cannot hear a chirping cricket. They don't have ears, They use their setae (bristles) to sense changes in air currents caused by sound waves. She would only "sense" the chirping if the cricket were inside her enclosure.
> 
> As far as feeding goes, your T could go much, much longer than a week without food and still be fine. I wouldn't have thought that the extra feeding caused the bite. It doesn't sound like a food response from your description.
> 
> ...



Mate... they still hve endorphines.... so just because they are lacking in the massive brain department means they can't feel emotion? Lol you're sadly mistaken because if that's how it is then what about people with mental disabilities or illness? Can they no longer feel emotion? Yes they can lol and back onto the endorphines part. Do you know why some people resort to chocolate in the state of depression? Chocolate releases an endorphine from your brain causing your mood to alter. Making you "feel happy" just like epinephrine aka artificial adrenaline synthetic endorphines. And tarantulas do have endorphines. So saying they cannot posses emotions is very wrong indeed. 
 Oh and just because I give mammal examples does not mean I am implying they are the same. To be defensive over something you have to have an emotion towards it. If you didn't you wouldn't care if someone was bothering you you wouldn't defend bite kick hairs or warn off. Lol they simply would not care. Why do you think a female tarantula protects her egg sac? Because she doesn't care? Rofl


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## Londoner (Mar 22, 2011)

Spiderman24 said:


> Mate... they still hve endorphines.... so just because they are lacking in the massive brain department means they can't feel emotion? Lol you're sadly mistaken because if that's how it is then what about people with mental disabilities or illness? Can they no longer feel emotion? Yes they can lol and back onto the endorphines part. Do you know why some people resort to chocolate in the state of depression? Chocolate releases an endorphine from your brain causing your mood to alter. Making you "feel happy" just like epinephrine aka artificial adrenaline synthetic endorphines. And tarantulas do have endorphines. So saying they cannot posses emotions is very wrong indeed.
> Oh and just because I give mammal examples does not mean I am implying they are the same. To be defensive over something you have to have an emotion towards it. If you didn't you wouldn't care if someone was bothering you you wouldn't defend bite kick hairs or warn off. Lol they simply would not care. Why do you think a female tarantula protects her egg sac? Because she doesn't care? Rofl


Okay, if you can post any scientific papers that show that tarantulas can feel pleasure, sadness, anger etc., I'll agree with you. It's my understanding that no such studies exist (not saying they don't, just that I'm not aware of them). I'll be honest and say that I haven't done any research into the subject in a while so maybe the papers are out there.

I'm completely open to the evidence if you can link to some.


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## Spiderman24 (Mar 22, 2011)

Google spiders on drugs. There was a big study about spiders on several types of drugs injected into there diet is how I think it happened. And throwing up a threat display is anger in itself... I mean not trying to talk down to you at all but being irritated and kicking hairs is showing emotions that's common sense.... but yeah anyway there has been some study though and it  was proven there is effect.

---------- Post added at 06:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:40 AM ----------

www.trinity.edu/jdunn/spiderdrugs.htm


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## Falk (Mar 22, 2011)

Spiderman24 said:


> I disagree with that xhexdx how does it not have moods? They are a lifeform right I mean a cat is only a cat but it can be a bit moody aye? I dog is a dog but it can them around and bite at any point because of a mood. I mean if a dog has a broken leg it is in pain right? Obviously. and you can have owned it for years so it knows you right? Right. then one day you while its limping around. you pet it. it growls at you. is that not a mood? It is only a dog after all? That's like saying a spider can feel pain. and how do you explain the whole spiders on drugs ordeal? I mean they used caffeine and caffeine is a mood altering substance through endorphines. causing you to be hyper and such. changing your mood. and spiders do have endorphines do they not?
> 
> ---------- Post added at 02:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:08 AM ----------
> 
> Yes all spiders have "character" and moods


You cannot compare a primitive mygalomorph with a mammal Spiders dont have those "mood" feeling such as boredom, happines, sadness etc.

---------- Post added at 11:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:47 AM ----------




insane247 said:


> so today i went to pick up my rosea. i usually guide her into my hand. the first touch or two usually startles her, but she calms down and realizes it's just me and walks into my hand. today she flinched, then the second time i touched her she kicked a hair off on me. she did that three times and then i decided to leave her alone, but she was in the way of where i put the hide so i tried to move her so i would not crush her leg or something and she bit me!
> 
> the reason why this is so wierd is because i have had her since october and she has never shown any agression to me before. sometimes she is scared but once she knows it's me she calms down. she has never so much as kicked a hair off on me let alone bite me! and she is not molting because she just ate 3 crickets yesterday. (i gave her more than usual because i could not get to the pet store last week and she went almost a week without food)
> 
> can anyone tell me reasons why a dostile breed like this and a member of it that is dostile compared to others would bite when i did nothing that i dont normally do? i am so gob-smacked about this whole thing


Realizes it's just you!!??


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## Spiderman24 (Mar 22, 2011)

Falk said:


> You cannot compare a primitive mygalomorph with a mammal Spiders dont have those "mood" feeling such as boredom, happines, sadness etc.
> 
> Please read my entire post.... I clearly stated just because I use that as an example does not mean I am saying they are at all the same....... that's all need be said than you for your time rofl oh and please don't undermind animals you cannot possibly ask them whether or not they feel emotion thus no one knows so your statements and mine are nothing but theory.
> There for we honestly cannot say who is right or wrong only agree to disagree.


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## JC50 (Mar 22, 2011)

*getting bit.*



insane247 said:


> she was bred in captivity, and nothing else has changed like temperature, humidity etc. but i did ask perhaps no one saw, i said there has been a chirping cricket in this new batch. could the sound of the cricket make her agressive. because i see it all the time in reptiles where when they know there is food around (smell, sound etc) or they know it is time to eat they behave agressively and will often bite, and it is not a mistake of thinking the hand is food or whatever. they just act agressive when they want to eat. so can the sound of the cricket cause her to be agressive like how reptiles do?
> 
> and she has never molted since i bought her. but i dont think that is the cause because she is not refusing food or drinking extra and she moves around the cage a lot.
> 
> ...


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## xhexdx (Mar 22, 2011)

This thread is a joke.  Spiderman24 and insane247 have no idea what they're talking about, and no idea about tarantula (or other mygalomorph, or other arachnid, or other invertebrate) anatomy.

I mean, really.

On top of all that, no insane247, your G. rosea was not bred in captivity.  She was wild-caught and imported.



insane247 said:


> the reason why this is so wierd is because i have *had her since october *and she has never shown any agression to me before.


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## JC50 (Mar 22, 2011)

insane247.Do yourself a favor and use the search function and read the reports on rose hairs and i think you will find your rose hair is acting just like any other rose hair.


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## Bigboy (Mar 22, 2011)

insane247 said:


> i guess i just should not assume that her not biting until today does not mean never. like you cant say "i have not died yet. so that means im never gonna die"


Correct.



Spiderman24 said:


> Mate... they still hve endorphines.... so just because they are lacking in the massive brain department means they can't feel emotion? Lol you're sadly mistaken because if that's how it is then what about people with mental disabilities or illness? Can they no longer feel emotion? Yes they can lol and back onto the endorphines part. Do you know why some people resort to chocolate in the state of depression? Chocolate releases an endorphine from your brain causing your mood to alter. Making you "feel happy" just like epinephrine aka artificial adrenaline synthetic endorphines. And tarantulas do have endorphines. So saying they cannot posses emotions is very wrong indeed.
> Oh and just because I give mammal examples does not mean I am implying they are the same. To be defensive over something you have to have an emotion towards it. If you didn't you wouldn't care if someone was bothering you you wouldn't defend bite kick hairs or warn off. Lol they simply would not care. Why do you think a female tarantula protects her egg sac? Because she doesn't care? Rofl


Endorphins ("endogenous morphine") are endogenous opioid peptides that function as neurotransmitters. They are produced by the pituitary gland and the hypothalamus *in vertebrates* during exercise, excitement, pain, consumption of spicy food, love and orgasm, and they resemble the opiates in their abilities to produce analgesia and a feeling of well-being.

As you can see from the definition a simple perusal of wikipedia can bring, these neurotransmitters are very different from the chemical cues and signals that drive behavior in invertebrates.  Please rethink your response in a less anthropocentric way.  I believe you will find it is received much better by the community in such a fashion.

You also may want to see a doctor about your inappropriate and uncontrollable bouts of laughter.  Perchance rolling on the floor laughing is indicative of a chemical imbalance of _your_ neurotransmitters.


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## Spiderman24 (Mar 22, 2011)

Lol =)))) ridiculous people


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## Armstrong5 (Mar 22, 2011)

Yeah xhexdx is always out to make someone look like they don't know what they are talking about so take his comments with a grain of salt although he did teach me to use the search much better!! But dont know if they have so called moods I bought an adult female chaco about 2 years ago...I used to hold her all the time, nothing changed to my knowledge and she hasn't let me hold her in about 6 months. So you can call that what you want but it sounds like a mood to me.


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## Spiderman24 (Mar 22, 2011)

Bigboy said:


> Correct.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Then how would caffeine effect a spider? And dmt? Dmt being the adrenaline gland of a monkey.... you are quite correct as I said this was only my thoughts and I figured if such said "drugs" effect us the matter they do then how could they effect a spider using the same chemical make up?


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## redrumpslump (Mar 22, 2011)

Why would you tell him your gonna tag his computer. You say he's accting like a child but you just accted way more childish. And no i'm not friends with Joe, but really what you just was ignorant. If you don't like what he says there's an ignore button for a reason.

OP: 
why would you keep messing with your t after the first defensive strike?
This is the reason I never handle my tarantulas.

Matt


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## Spiderman24 (Mar 22, 2011)

And Brisbane!!!! I got drunk for the first time ever in Brisbane lol good times! (I'm from Perth)

---------- Post added at 08:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:56 AM ----------




redrumpslump said:


> Why would you tell him your gonna tag his computer. You say he's accting like a child but you just accted way more childish. And no i'm not friends with Joe, but really what you just was ignorant. If you don't like what he says there's an ignore button for a reason.
> 
> OP:
> why would you keep messing with your t after the first defensive strike?
> ...


Fair warning sailor.

---------- Post added at 08:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:57 AM ----------

Yes childish but I feel fair warning was needed.


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## redrumpslump (Mar 22, 2011)

Why don't you go tag everyones computer that disagrees with you. Probably make the world a better place I'm sure. 

Matt


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## Sidi (Mar 22, 2011)

Ever get that feeling you've just been trolled?


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## Spiderman24 (Mar 22, 2011)

It's not the fact that he disagreed with me at all it was the rude remark made about as you can see others disagreed with me. I didn't get crappy about it. They weren't rude in the slightest.

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Sidi said:


> Ever get that feeling you've just been trolled?


Lmao what makes you say that aye


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## Sidi (Mar 22, 2011)

Common sense makes me say that, damn, I just bought my first T today and even I know they will bite if they want too!


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## redrumpslump (Mar 22, 2011)

Sidi said:


> Common sense makes me say that, damn, I just bought my first T today and even I know they will bite if they want too!


Yea he may be a troll.


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## Spiderman24 (Mar 22, 2011)

Sidi said:


> Common sense makes me say that, damn, I just bought my first T today and even I know they will bite if they want too!


I think we've all stated that 100 times now. Lol I think he got the picture after me and dragonfly said it lol but were now on to the fact that I'm ignorant for thinking tarantulas have rudimentary emotions. Lol

---------- Post added at 09:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:13 AM ----------

Watch the swearing though man I've got smacked down for it a lot >.<


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## Sidi (Mar 22, 2011)

Think whatever you want to think dude, who cares what someone you dont know on the internet thinks, lol


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## Spiderman24 (Mar 22, 2011)

Sidi said:


> Think whatever you want to think dude, who cares what someone you dont know on the internet thinks, lol


Keyboard warriors piss me off lol


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## Bigboy (Mar 22, 2011)

Spiderman24 said:


> Then how would caffeine effect a spider? And dmt? Dmt being the adrenaline gland of a monkey.... you are quite correct as I said this was only my thoughts and I figured if such said "drugs" effect us the matter they do then how could they effect a spider using the same chemical make up?


Now that is an interesting question, I'm not sure how those compounds would affect an arthropod.  Dimethyltryptamine however is derived from plants, though there is anecdotal evidence of it being found in mammals and I believe I read somewhere that it is similar to the compound secreted by the Colorado River Toad.

I guess to answer those questions you'd first have to look at what receptors they bind to within the human brain and determine if there are analogues to those receptors in an arthropods ganglia that they could readily bind to.


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## Spiderman24 (Mar 22, 2011)

I'm really going to look into that if I find anything interesting about the matter ill relay and link you to it. But I was referring to the drug some people ignorantly take. It is extremely illegal and that's the reason (by what I've read) is why its so illegal and that it gives you a "sense of death" I don't know much about it but it just strikes ne as odd that such things also effect spiders in the same sense. But we are so far apart.


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## Scolopeon (Mar 22, 2011)

xhexdx said:


> Tarantulas don't have 'character' and they don't have 'moods'.  They're spiders.


They do get terratorial though, I make sure my handleable species are out of their homes before I attempt to pick them up by hand.

Even my Rose hair raises up, chases my tongs and taps them hard with her fangs in her home, but outside she is just perfectly holdable.

---------- Post added at 08:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:38 AM ----------




Armstrong5 said:


> Yeah xhexdx is always out to make someone look like they don't know what they are talking about so take his comments with a grain of salt although he did teach me to use the search much better!! But dont know if they have so called moods I bought an adult female chaco about 2 years ago...I used to hold her all the time, nothing changed to my knowledge and she hasn't let me hold her in about 6 months. So you can call that what you want but it sounds like a mood to me.


I agree, I have had it with certain elitist attitudes on these forums, though not to myself personally i'm getting tired of newer keepers being picked on when they come here for information.

The hobby isnt about who is best at this or that it is about understanding and helping others.

Anyone from before July 2007 (xhedx' join date) should know this, he is not the only one on these forums who needs an attitude check.


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## Spiderman24 (Mar 22, 2011)

*found a little something*

The most potent psychedelic compound goes by the name dimethyltryptamine or as it is commonly known "DMT". DMT is currently in all of our brains, it is a neurotransmitter similar to serotonin that seems to be secreted by the pineal gland. The pineal is most mysterious organ in the human body, it is the physical representation of the Third Eye and has been linked to everything from the dream world, to alien abduction. DMT also can be found in nature. In my mind the most amazing thing about dimethyltryptamine is the fact that it exists in nearly every ecosystem on earth. Countless plants have DMT in their leaves, this is well understood and utilized by indigenous people of South America. Deep in the Amazonian rain forest of Columbia, shamans of the Amerindians tribe have a brew called Ayahuasca


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## JC50 (Mar 22, 2011)

Spiderman24 said:


> The most potent psychedelic compound goes by the name dimethyltryptamine or as it is commonly known "DMT". DMT is currently in all of our brains, it is a neurotransmitter similar to serotonin that seems to be secreted by the pineal gland. The pineal is most mysterious organ in the human body, it is the physical representation of the Third Eye and has been linked to everything from the dream world, to alien abduction. DMT also can be found in nature. In my mind the most amazing thing about dimethyltryptamine is the fact that it exists in nearly every ecosystem on earth. Countless plants have DMT in their leaves, this is well understood and utilized by indigenous people of South America. Deep in the Amazonian rain forest of Columbia, shamans of the Amerindians tribe have a brew called Ayahuasca



Very interesting information.This is also the same compound associated with the " magic mushrooms" found in cow pastures and ingested by humans for the high.I did not realize it was found in so many living things.


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## Scolopeon (Mar 22, 2011)

Falk said:


> You cannot compare a primitive mygalomorph with a mammal Spiders dont have those "mood" feeling such as boredom, happines, sadness etc.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 11:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:47 AM ----------
> 
> ...


I agree that they don't have moods in the conventional sense but they do have triggers, even crickets have them... ever seen a cricket stop when it senses the furry legs of a Tarantula.

Just as I believe Tarantulas have these primitive chemical triggers, ie this creature is bigger than me shall I run or defend my homeground.. shall I avoid it because it is no threat.

Lizards are not mammals and they have these also.

My Monitor feels no emotional attachment to me but he is calm around me because he perceives me as no threat, I am a bringer of food and he will let me literally pick him straight up from a sleep without so much as to blink, he lost all of his defense mechanisms regarding humans and i'll even let him sleep next to me sometimes, he likes the warmth from me... so as I am benifitial to him he is relaxed around me... but he certainly wouldn't care what I felt he just ignores me.

The first time he saw a dog which ran into our garden he inflated up and hissed (a defensive response to make himself look bigger just like tarantula posturing and raising up), and this is an animal smaller than a human but because he hasnt encountered it before he got defensive, now while tarantulas are not as intelligent as reptiles and do not have the vision to discern threat from non threat they act in the same way using sense, a Tarantula can differentiate between their own species, food, threats and large non threats via chemical signals.

I literally pick my Rose hair up from the sides and your telling me she doesn't know she has been grasped by a larger animal?

Now maybe you did something different in her enclosure which set off alarm bells and because you had aggitated her and persisted she saw no other resort than to bite you, to let you know that she means it.

I have witnessed my Pterinochilus Chordatus fang tap rather than bite (and continued this to the second cricket in it's enclosure tapping it over and over) because it knows I am larger and could kill it, so it would rather warn me than risk injuring itself, this is prevalent throughout nature including animals like rattlesnakes that have evolved these warning signals, this could be a reason why tarantulas can be so vividly coloured.

As a wise man once said "nature will find a way"


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## Spiderman24 (Mar 22, 2011)

JC50 said:


> Very interesting information.This is also the same compound associated with the " magic mushrooms" found in cow pastures and ingested by humans for the high.I did not realize it was found in so many living things.


Yeah we all have the major drug known as DMT in us. It is was causes us to dream. It is the pineal gland that activates it.

---------- Post added at 10:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:10 AM ----------

this could be a reason why tarantulas can be so vividly coloured.

As a wise man once said "nature will find a way"[/QUOTE]

Prime example poecilotheria species highlighted legs are to warn off predators

---------- Post added at 10:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:16 AM ----------

this could be a reason why tarantulas can be so vividly coloured.

As a wise man once said "nature will find a way"[/QUOTE]

Prime example poecilotheria species highlighted legs are to warn off predators


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## Motorkar (Mar 22, 2011)

insane247 said:


> thanks spiderman. my question isnt really why she bit me, is why is she out of character. i know every being has a day with a bad mood. the reason why i found this so wierd is because in 6 months this is her first moody day


It's a rosehair. Thats enough why she is like that. My B. smithi supposed to be more calmer than roseas and still I get threat poses by her, though I never handele my tarantulas!


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## Londoner (Mar 22, 2011)

Spiderman24 said:


> Google spiders on drugs. There was a big study about spiders on several types of drugs injected into there diet is how I think it happened. And throwing up a threat display is anger in itself... I mean not trying to talk down to you at all but being irritated and kicking hairs is showing emotions that's common sense.... but yeah anyway there has been some study though and it  was proven there is effect.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 06:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:40 AM ----------
> 
> www.trinity.edu/jdunn/spiderdrugs.htm


Yes I was aware of the NASA study, but the results tell us nothing about a spider's ability to feel emotions. I also don't see how you can say a threat-pose demonstrates anger. I see it as a physiological response to outside stimuli and like you have stated, there's no way we can say exactly what's happening inside the spider's "brain" at the time. I'll stick with what is currently accepted by the scientific community but, like I said in my last post, _if_ new research was to emerge linking behavioral responses to emotion, then I'd change my opinion.


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## Spiderman24 (Mar 22, 2011)

Mate the drugs effected the spiders behaviors...

---------- Post added at 11:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:54 AM ----------

Well how do you explain docile and completely not docile t's..

That was a question not a snide remark by the way...


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## Chris_Skeleton (Mar 22, 2011)

I like how someone will post "My tarantula was angry" or something to that effect, then someone else will post "tarantulas can't be angry, they don't have emotions." Then the first person responds with "You don't know that, we can't tell what a tarantula is thinking" and calls them wrong yet if they go by their own argument, they are doing the same thing.


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## Moltar (Mar 22, 2011)

I think that most bites from species generally accepted as non-defensive fall into 1 of three categories, ranked 1-3 in frequency

1: Misplaced prey aggression: You made a movement that felt like a prey item to the T, so it pounced. (most common)

2: The T was being handled or manipulated in some way and began to slip, and thus dug its fangs in for support. They do this often while climbing.

3: You triggered a defensive response in some way. Maybe a waft of air from your hand, maybe who knows, but it felt imminent danger and reacted. (least common) 

Also, while I think it's anthropomorphosizing to say they have true "moods" (ie: a mental state brought upon by their environment and/or experiences which affects how they interact with others) They do seem to have something analogous but simpler. There are days when my rosies are curious and inquisitive, crawling right out of the cage into my hand un-encouraged; and there are days when they obviously don't want to be bothered and will throw threat displays at me. I can't say if this is because of environmental factors, time of day hunger/thirst or what. But it is based on real observation nonetheless and is an everpresent factor in my husbandry.

Every spider can have a bad day/moment. Look in the bite reports section, there are reports in there from G. rosea, G. pulchripes, A. avic, E. campestratus, B. albopilosum... even the most gentle species can bite you if they get a wild hair up their butt to do so.


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## Rob1985 (Mar 22, 2011)

xhexdx said:


> Tarantulas don't have 'character' and they don't have 'moods'.  They're spiders.


 they have "instinct" and this individual was on the other end of this.


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## Spiderman24 (Mar 22, 2011)

First of all, we should understand the concept of an instinct.
There are two meanings. One is an emotion which is called an
original instinct in the psychological term and the other is
consciousness. Whatever we do, it is influenced by the impelling
force of these special types of emotions. In the other words
instict (Samjna) means particular type of tendency of
consciousness in which conscious and subconscious minds are
combined together. They are called emotions. Internal and
external causes activate the emotions to arise. The material
cause for them is karmas. Simultaneously external environment
also affects their production.
Thanang Sutra, one of the Agamas, describes ten types of
instincts. The first eight are emotional or sentimental instincts
whereas last two are concerned with a special type of thought
process.
Instinct of appetite Ahara samjna
Instinct of fear Bhaya samjna
Instinct of copulation Maithun samjna
Instinct of possession Parigraha samjna
Instinct of anger Krodha samjna
Instinct of Pride Mana samjna
Instinct of deceit Maya samjna
Instinct of greed Lobha samjna
Instinct of imitation Ogha samjna
Instinct of worldly desires Loka samjna
The conduct and behavior are the outcome of deluding karma
(Mohaniya Karma). Due to the influence of instinct man changes
his habits and nature. Therefore the above stated classification
may be clearly understood in the light of karmas philosophy and
psychological divisions.
Outcome of deluding karmas 
Original emotionsFear FearAnger AngerDisgust (jugupsa) HatredFeminine inclination (striveda) Sexuality
Masculine inclination (purusveda) Sexuality
Common inclination (napunskaveda) Sexuality 
Pride superiority complexGreed ownershipIndulgence (Rati) attachment
Dissatisfaction (Arati) sorrow


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## Londoner (Mar 22, 2011)

Spiderman24 said:


> Mate the drugs effected the spiders behaviors...
> 
> ---------- Post added at 11:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:54 AM ----------
> 
> ...


The drugs affected the spider's ability to construct a web. Again, I don't see how that ties in with whether spiders experience emotions like higher animals do (no pun intended haha!). Drugs can and do work in differing ways in differing animal's brains. Just because humans experience certain emotions under the influence of certain drugs, it doesn't necessarily mean that spiders will also.

With regards to your question, I'd have to say I don't know for sure. But I'm comfortable not knowing. What I won't do however, is say that a non-docile T experiences rage or anger. 

Look, there's nothing wrong with using words as descriptive terms. I do it myself. If one of my Ts is acting more defensively than usual, I might say to the wife: "That one's in a grumpy mood today". I'm not using "grumpy" to mean that the spider is feeling frustrated or sulky, I'm simply using an easy to understand description. I still say that they don't experience anything like the emotions we are capable of.


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## Moltar (Mar 22, 2011)

Spiderman, that is just about the highest degree of anthropomorphization I have ever seen in a single post. Are you suggesting that T's experience all of this? Maybe I just missed something in all the yabbering. 

Instinct of appetite Ahara samjna - yeah they have that
Instinct of fear Bhaya samjna - that too
Instinct of copulation Maithun samjna - and this
Instinct of possession Parigraha samjna - but not this
Instinct of anger Krodha samjna - or this
Instinct of Pride Mana samjna - or this one
Instinct of deceit Maya samjna - or this
Instinct of greed Lobha samjna - or this one either
Instinct of imitation Ogha samjna - nope
Instinct of worldly desires Loka samjna - I'd say not, unless your burrow counts as a worldly desire...

They are animals in one of the most simple forms possible. Their brains aren't even really brains, they're ganglion clusters. No emotion, no analytical thought, only very basic memory... They're pretty much just instinct, some cause/effect analysis and imprinting based on experiential data.


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## Rue (Mar 22, 2011)

Their brains are brains...might be simple compared to that of other animals...but are still 'real' brains.

If you want to anthropomorphize your pets...what's the harm?  As long as you don't take it too far...


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## Mojo Jojo (Mar 22, 2011)

Armstrong5 said:


> Yeah xhexdx is always out to make someone look like they don't know what they are talking about...


Wrong.  He's just pointing out the people who don't know what they are talking about.  

The community needs people like this or else some newbie coming to the boards to learn about his new pet might come to think that his sick tarantula is actually just doing yoga in order to gain merit with Lord Vishnu.


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## Rue (Mar 22, 2011)

Big Dragonfly said:


> ...
> The community needs people like this or else some newbie coming to the boards to learn about his new pet might come to think that his sick tarantula is actually just doing yoga in order to gain merit with Lord Vishnu.


...and that's a good example of taking anthropomorphizing too far...


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## Spiderman24 (Mar 22, 2011)

Big Dragonfly said:


> I never thought I'd see the day where Hinduism was brought into a tarantula debate.  :wall:


Are you serious? Because I said calm as a Hindu cow... look at your last statement you just made..... seriously? Lol way to be a troll dragonfly rofl

---------- Post added at 04:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:19 PM ----------




Big Dragonfly said:


> Wrong.  He's just pointing out the people who don't know what they are talking about.
> 
> The community needs people like this or else some newbie coming to the boards to learn about his new pet might come to think that his sick tarantula is actually just doing yoga in order to gain merit with Lord Vishnu.


Yore ridiculous to criticize in the  slightest.

---------- Post added at 04:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:20 PM ----------




Moltar said:


> Spiderman, that is just about the highest degree of anthropomorphization I have ever seen in a single post. Are you suggesting that T's experience all of this? Maybe I just missed something in all the yabbering.
> 
> Instinct of appetite Ahara samjna - yeah they have that
> Instinct of fear Bhaya samjna - that too
> ...


If you read that post instinct is still secondary emotion.. and that was pulled from a study not my own words but I definitely was not saying tarantula had all of these traits people just keep throwing the word instinct around when in all actuality instinct is a form of enotion whether t's only have one of those traits it is believed to be an emotion mate but to answer your question I think you missed something lol >.<


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## Mojo Jojo (Mar 22, 2011)

Spiderman24 said:


> Are you serious? Because I said calm as a Hindu cow...


No, I'm talking about post 63.


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## Spiderman24 (Mar 22, 2011)

And there brain has enough power in it to think should i run or bite... is this predator too much for me.... fight or flight right? They have the ability to make sense of a situation don't they?

---------- Post added at 04:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:27 PM ----------




Big Dragonfly said:


> No, I'm talking about post 63.


Lol ridiculous


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## Mojo Jojo (Mar 22, 2011)

They don't think about running or biting.  They either run or they bite.  That's why it is called a response.  You don't generally think about coughing before you do it.  It is a response to some other stimuli that just happens.


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## Spiderman24 (Mar 22, 2011)

Londoner said:


> The drugs affected the spider's ability to construct a web. Again, I don't see how that ties in with whether spiders experience emotions like higher animals do (no pun intended haha!). Drugs can and do work in differing ways in differing animal's brains. Just because humans experience certain emotions under the influence of certain drugs, it doesn't necessarily mean that spiders will also.
> 
> With regards to your question, I'd have to say I don't know for sure. But I'm comfortable not knowing. What I won't do however, is say that a non-docile T experiences rage or anger.
> 
> Look, there's nothing wrong with using words as descriptive terms. I do it myself. If one of my Ts is acting more defensively than usual, I might say to the wife: "That one's in a grumpy mood today". I'm not using "grumpy" to mean that the spider is feeling frustrated or sulky, I'm simply using an easy to understand description. I still say that they don't experience anything like the emotions we are capable of.



I completely agree with you but there "emotion" may be different from ours you know? And I completely apologize if you felt that I was trying to prove you wrong or say you are wrong I just looked at it as an educational conversation mate never  my intention to say you're wrong.

---------- Post added at 04:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:34 PM ----------




Big Dragonfly said:


> They don't think about running or biting.  They either run or they bite.  That's why it is called a response.  You don't generally think about coughing before you do it.  It is a response to some other stimuli that just happens.


Then why would a t throw up a that display snap down knowing  it missed then run? Why if a t throws a threat display if you make sudden gesture do the run? You are honestly saying they just do it? It's never a thought to them to run? If they can't think like that how do they even throw a threat display catch pray knowing its food cause when they bite us they sure don't start eating. How do they know how to do anything like that if they dont think.....


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## Mojo Jojo (Mar 22, 2011)

Spiderman24 said:


> You are honestly saying they just do it? It's never a thought to them to run?


That is exactly what I am saying.


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## Spiderman24 (Mar 22, 2011)

Can answer the rest of my question please.

---------- Post added at 04:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:41 PM ----------

Those aren't all they just do answers. A thought process must be made for there nerves to know what to do. Yes some things are just plane and simple instinctive reactions. The rest however are not.... how does a trapdoor spideys know how to set its trap knowing another critter will trip it... they have to think at some point. They also must think when making there.burrow ebbing anything....


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## Protectyaaaneck (Mar 22, 2011)

She bit you because she didn't want to be touched.


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## Moltar (Mar 22, 2011)

Hindu philosophy written in attempt to explain the inner working of the human soul (or whatever) just do not apply to simple invertebrates. 

Does. Not. Apply.

There is no analytical thought process.
There are no emotions.
There is no sense of past or future.

Cause, effect. Action, reaction.

Hungry? Sit at door and wait.

Vibrations outside? Pounce, grab and eat.

They experience the most basic possible version of what we refer to as "learning" through repetition and reinforcement. Big scary thing pulls the lid of my house = Food is coming. That takes months to learn.

You need an advanced brain for complex functions like emotion and analytical thought. A ganglion cluster literally the size of a pinhead does not come close to providing the neural connections necessary to create such things.

Why am I even arguing this? It's stupid.


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## becca81 (Mar 22, 2011)

*Moderator's Note*

C'mon.  Seriously?

Stick to the original topic.

In case you've forgotten, here's a reminder:



			
				insane247 said:
			
		

> so today i went to pick up my rosea. i usually guide her into my hand. the first touch or two usually startles her, but she calms down and realizes it's just me and walks into my hand. today she flinched, then the second time i touched her she kicked a hair off on me. she did that three times and then i decided to leave her alone, but she was in the way of where i put the hide so i tried to move her so i would not crush her leg or something and she bit me!
> 
> the reason why this is so wierd is because i have had her since october and she has never shown any agression to me before. sometimes she is scared but once she knows it's me she calms down. she has never so much as kicked a hair off on me let alone bite me! and she is not molting because she just ate 3 crickets yesterday. (i gave her more than usual because i could not get to the pet store last week and she went almost a week without food)
> 
> can anyone tell me reasons why a dostile breed like this and a member of it that is dostile compared to others would bite when i did nothing that i dont normally do? i am so gob-smacked about this whole thing


Insane,

Any species - even those known for being more docile - have the potential to bite at any time.  It's more rare with _G. rosea_, but it does happen.

My advice would be to leave her alone.

Good luck,
Becca


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## jbm150 (Mar 22, 2011)

Moltar said:


> They experience the most basic possible version of what we refer to as "learning" through repetition and reinforcement. Big scary thing pulls the lid of my house = Food is coming. That takes months to learn.


I'm not too sure they're even capable of this.  The closest I've encountered with my Ts is my P. cambridgei who takes crickets from my fingers through the ventilation holes.  I've done it over and over with her but I still don't believe she comes to the holes to eat.  I think its more happenstance she's already there and even more so, she's unintentionally modifying my behavior (I see her there and feel compelled to feed her).  If she was capable of any capacity of learning, I think she'd spend more time on the front door in expectation of food.


Oh, and more to the actual question, its already been addressed.  Your T didn't like you touching her and she bit you.  Some days her level of tolerance may be higher/lower than others.  You caught her on a low day


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## SC Tarantulas (Mar 22, 2011)

I tend to agree with xhexdx. I don't think that spiders have "moods". Some species may tolerate you messing with them more than others but moods...No.There brain is wired for the basics to survive and reproduce thats it. Just my 2 cents.


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## Lolita (Mar 22, 2011)

Brad1980 said:


> I tend to agree with xhexdx. I don't think that spiders have "moods". Some species may tolerate you messing with them more than others but moods...No.There brain is wired for the basics to survive and reproduce thats it. Just my 2 cents.



yeah i agree it's just sometimes the word mood is the best descriptive thing i can come up with without saying temperment changes due to several factors whether internal or envoirmental (like hunger molt, ect for internal and vibrations, wind movement whether their cage was messed with ect for envoirmental) i believe that has a factor on their day to day temperment or mood as it were but no they don't have moods because they don't have emotions and even if they did it wouldn't be in the sense we know them as also i'm glad they don't have emotions like us can you imagine a tarantula with bi polar disorder or schitzophrenia that would be interesting lol


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## kylestl (Mar 23, 2011)

You won't be able to convince me otherwise but IMHO NO tarantula has moods, NO tarantula "wants" to be held, sure they might seems angrier at times but since tarantulas are a wild animal their instinct is survival. If a tarantula feels its life might be in danger they can and will bite. I know a few will disagree because newer members seem to interpret tarantula actions in a very human like way. I have handled tarantulas. Not regularly but I have done it before. I keep tarantulas because they are interesting, different, pretty. Not because I want something to touch. Thats why I have a dog


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## Fran (Mar 23, 2011)

Every Wild animal can be unpredictable.

Handle them, and if they bite you, you have diserved  it. The question is, how many times do they need to bite you to understand that they are not a toy?
For me 0.


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## gromgrom (Mar 23, 2011)

Moltar said:


> Hindu philosophy written in attempt to explain the inner working of the human soul (or whatever) just do not apply to simple invertebrates.
> 
> Does. Not. Apply.
> 
> ...


+1, this topic is making me less smart. As much fun as it is to hold these animals, its not something they like or want, they cant identify you, they perceive you as a threat. G. roseas are just more "roll over and take it" than other T's. 

Also, as usual, I agree with Xhedx. Tarantulas have instincts, not moods, and some people in here are using bad metaphors and confusing others which has caused it to go off topic.


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## Zman181 (Mar 23, 2011)

Big Dragonfly said:


> 01. You tried to pick her up.
> 02. She flinched.
> 03. You tried to pick her up.
> 04. She kicked hairs.
> ...


Right to the "T"  that was very well put Big Dragonfly.


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## insane247 (Mar 23, 2011)

<edit> cuz i guess she smells me or somthing. but she acts differently when i am holding her as opposed to other people. she does not seem as scared. and only i can take her out of the cage and hand her to someone or else she will run away. she sits calm on my hand but walks at a fast pace on someone else's. and my other friend that handles her most next to me she acts calm on her too. she must be able to know the difference

seriously guys u need to calm down. there is no need to talk in such an offensive way
a) u r trailing off into irrelevant arguements
b) this is my first spider and first bite. so u dont need to talk to me like im an idiot. that is rude and unnecessary. I AM NEW AND INEXPERIENCED SO GIVE ME A GODDAMN BREAK!

why can't people on the internet talk to eachother like the adults we all r? u dont need to be short, immature, and offensive just because someone else has another opinion. grow up guys

---------- Post added at 06:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:04 PM ----------

im just trying to understand my spider a bit more and u guys r all taking stuff too far. im not stupid and u dont need to talk to me like i am. doesnt anyone have any patience anymore?


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## dannyboypede (Mar 23, 2011)

insane247 said:


> seriously guys u need to calm down. there is no need to talk in such an offensive way
> a) u r trailing off into irrelevant arguements
> b) this is my first spider and first bite. so u dont need to talk to me like im an idiot. that is rude and unnecessary. I AM NEW AND INEXPERIENCED SO GIVE ME A GODDAMN BREAK!
> 
> ...


We have patience, just not for anthropomorphizing. It becomes annoying when every beginner comes here and says that their tarantula has feelings. It simply doesn't make sense, and it gets worse when trolls come and think it is funny to say. No one here means to hurt your feelings. We are all trying to understand our spiders too. 

--Dan


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## P. Novak (Mar 23, 2011)

insane247 said:


> i guess i understand that i bothered her too much. but she has never even so much as given me warnings. and i do handle her a lot



The flicking of the hairs are a New World's way of warning you. If you don't heed to that you are likely to get bit. Old World T's don't warn you, they just bite.


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## Lorum (Mar 23, 2011)

Armstrong5 said:


> But dont know if they have so called moods I bought an adult female chaco about 2 years ago...I used to hold her all the time, nothing changed *to my knowledge* and she hasn't let me hold her in about 6 months. So you can call that what you want but it sounds like a mood to me.


The part in bolds is the answer itself. You don't know why it happened nor what changed, so, why immediatly assume one between a lot of explanations?


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## insane247 (Mar 24, 2011)

dannyboypede i never said my spider has feelings. none of my questions say that. but i did say there is the possibility that there is a reason behind her acting agressive, and if there is a reason i would like to know. because spiders DO have temperments that vary from spider to spider, regardless of breed, and she was not abiding by her typical temperment so i assumed there must be a reason for it. everyone is assuming that i think she has feelings and argueing about whether or not spiders have feelings and moods but i never said that they did. i used the word "behaviour" not "feelings" and im sure i didnt even use the word "mood" but if i did i meant "temperment" in any of my questions. and i'm offended that i keep saying that i am asking if there could be a reason for her to act in a way that she has never come close to doing so before, and everyone ignores that part and assumes i'm plainly asking why i was bit and talking to me like i am stupid and can't tell that "she bit me because she can and she wanted to and she was scared etc". i know those are the reason why she bit me, but that is not what i have been asking, i have been asking for possible reasons for her to act aggressively for the first time. people just keep giving me the obvious and clear reason that "she did because she did". yes that could be the reason. but there could also be a cause for her to feel threatened in this case because she has never acted so before. i have asked abuot 5 times what possible reasons could be and some have answered but most have talked down to me and argued with each other about feelings and moods. and i keep asking because i am not satisfied with the answers i have gotten because they mention environment changes can be a cause, but there has been none, so i asked further to narrow down a possible cause that has actually been a condition and i have recieved one answer: that spiders cannot hear so the sound of the cricket is not the cause. now i am at the point where i am trying to see if there is another possible cause. (if a friendly dog one day bit someone the owner would wonder why. not that i am comparing dogs to spiders because they are very different but i am trying to clarify why i feel that her reaction is out of place. an out of place reaction usually has a direct cause)

so i lost my patience. because i dont appreciate when i ask a question that people are using my thread to argue about something between eachother  and because people are assuming i am saying my spider has moods and feelings and they are either argueing with eachother based on that or talking down to be about it. and only a small minority is answering my question in a polite mannor and paying attention to all the details of my question. and i feel like most people are just skimming my details and then making an assumption before answering

i remember i did say that all things with a brain have feelings. but i did not mean things like "it gets offended, or sad etc." i meant that it does have the process of information and reaction to that information. and not everything an animal does is based on instinct, evidentally because different members display different characteristic behavioural traits that one may be able to call "personality". so maybe i was not clear in that one post. i was simply trying to explain that there is more to animals behaviour than just instinct, once again saying because of the behavioural variations in different members. 
and there is also the fact that it is a disagreeable topic to say that arachnids have moods. some people have given evidence as to why. 

but once again i did not once ask whether or not my spider attacked out of being in a bad mood. i never once thought it was linked to mood. i DID say that animals have been shown to have moods. that is mainly why i am upset is because i clearly asked what the causes of her strange behavoiur was. as in something that happened that day that would have her on edge. and people either argue about moods of spiders or ignore the part that there is likely a cause because if there was no cause then she would behave this way on a general basis. 

so pardon me for being redundant but i want to be as clear as possible so i can stop getting answers like "spiders do not have feelings or moods" or "she bit because she can" etc because it ignores bits of my question and makes assumptions and overall does not help me. all i want to know is to narrow down what might have happened prior to her biting me that would cause her to be on edge. and "being a spider" does not answer that question because like i said before, if that were the reason she would be on edge a lot more than just once every 6 months. i handle her a lot and she has never so much as kicked off a hair. so it is strange of her, and therefore there has to be an environmental cause to this


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## KoriTamashii (Mar 24, 2011)

insane247 said:


> dannyboypede i never said my spider has feelings. none of my questions say that. but i did say there is the possibility that there is a reason behind her acting agressive, and if there is a reason i would like to know. because spiders DO have temperments that vary from spider to spider, regardless of breed, and she was not abiding by her typical temperment so i assumed there must be a reason for it. everyone is assuming that i think she has feelings and argueing about whether or not spiders have feelings and moods but i never said that they did. i used the word "behaviour" not "feelings" and im sure i didnt even use the word "mood" but if i did i meant "temperment" in any of my questions. and i'm offended that i keep saying that i am asking if there could be a reason for her to act in a way that she has never come close to doing so before, and everyone ignores that part and assumes i'm plainly asking why i was bit and talking to me like i am stupid and can't tell that "she bit me because she can and she wanted to and she was scared etc". i know those are the reason why she bit me, but that is not what i have been asking, i have been asking for possible reasons for her to act aggressively for the first time. people just keep giving me the obvious and clear reason that "she did because she did". yes that could be the reason. but there could also be a cause for her to feel threatened in this case because she has never acted so before. i have asked abuot 5 times what possible reasons could be and some have answered but most have talked down to me and argued with each other about feelings and moods. and i keep asking because i am not satisfied with the answers i have gotten because they mention environment changes can be a cause, but there has been none, so i asked further to narrow down a possible cause that has actually been a condition and i have recieved one answer: that spiders cannot hear so the sound of the cricket is not the cause. now i am at the point where i am trying to see if there is another possible cause. (if a friendly dog one day bit someone the owner would wonder why. not that i am comparing dogs to spiders because they are very different but i am trying to clarify why i feel that her reaction is out of place. an out of place reaction usually has a direct cause)
> 
> so i lost my patience. because i dont appreciate when i ask a question that people are using my thread to argue about something between eachother  and because people are assuming i am saying my spider has moods and feelings and they are either argueing with eachother based on that or talking down to be about it. and only a small minority is answering my question in a polite mannor and paying attention to all the details of my question. and i feel like most people are just skimming my details and then making an assumption before answering
> 
> ...


The problem is that you're trying to decipher behavior in a creature that is by nature unpredictable. Even if you recreate the same conditions, it may not react the same; so why bother trying to overthink the 'environmental' conditions? It's not going to help you.

People have answered your question: rosies are unpredictable. Just because it acted one way a hundred times and another way the hundred and first time doesn't mean you know what it's going to do the hundred and second time.


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## xhexdx (Mar 24, 2011)

Re-read this thread.  Your questions have already been answered.


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## insane247 (Mar 24, 2011)

so yeah i am a pretty patient person. but some of my biggest pet peeves is being ignored, or, when i am on the internet and people assume i am stupid because i dont know some of the things that they do, and especially since they do not know me and have had a sample of talking to me. 

i have always wanted a spider and now that i have moved out of my parent's place i bought one. so it was on a whim because i was in my "im away from my parents so i'll do everything they wouldn't let me do" mode. i am just trying to understand what might cause her to be on edge so i can learn. i am still learning. but i know enough to know that that bite was a reaction to a unique event that has not occurred before, because if it had, i would have been bitten before this. and if it was for no reason other than her being a spider, then i also would have been bitten before this.


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## xhexdx (Mar 24, 2011)

Not true.  You're assuming too much, and what you believe to be true is not.

Here, in case you missed it three posts up:



KoriTamashii said:


> The problem is that you're trying to decipher behavior in a creature that is by nature unpredictable. Even if you recreate the same conditions, it may not react the same; so why bother trying to overthink the 'environmental' conditions? It's not going to help you.
> 
> People have answered your question: rosies are unpredictable. Just because it acted one way a hundred times and another way the hundred and first time doesn't mean you know what it's going to do the hundred and second time.


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## KoriTamashii (Mar 24, 2011)

insane247 said:


> so yeah i am a pretty patient person. but some of my biggest pet peeves is being ignored, or, when i am on the internet and people assume i am stupid because i dont know some of the things that they do, and especially since they do not know me and have had a sample of talking to me.
> 
> i have always wanted a spider and now that i have moved out of my parent's place i bought one. so it was on a whim because i was in my "im away from my parents so i'll do everything they wouldn't let me do" mode. i am just trying to understand what might cause her to be on edge so i can learn. i am still learning. but i know enough to know that that bite was a reaction to a unique event that has not occurred before, because if it had, i would have been bitten before this. and if it was for no reason other than her being a spider, then i also would have been bitten before this.



Your question has been answered several times over. It's up to you to take that information to heart. We've done all we can.


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## insane247 (Mar 24, 2011)

but wouldnt you say if a member was as unpredictable as you say, that also i would have been bitten randomly before this. it's been 6 months. if something is THAT unpredictable then the unpredicibility would be more frequent. again, which is why i feel there must have been a cause


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## xhexdx (Mar 24, 2011)

The cause was you not paying attention to the cues it gave before it bit you.

You've been in the hobby 6 months.  Listen to those who have been in the hobby much longer than you.


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## insane247 (Mar 24, 2011)

and it's hard to take information to heart when so many people are ignoring details of my question or argueing about feelings and i think only two people said they are unpredictable. if you are standing next to a giant speaker at a concert blaring all this noise at you does it make it hard to hear what the person next to you is saying?

---------- Post added at 10:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:20 PM ----------

yes i did ignore the initial ques. BUT she has never given those before. so the bite is not the question, the behaviour is


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## Musicwolf (Mar 24, 2011)

insane247 said:


> and it's hard to take information to heart when so many people are ignoring details of my question or argueing about feelings and i think only two people said they are unpredictable. if you are standing next to a giant speaker at a concert blaring all this noise at you does it make it hard to hear what the person next to you is saying?
> 
> ---------- Post added at 10:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:20 PM ----------
> 
> yes i did ignore the initial ques. BUT she has never given those before. so the bite is not the question, the behaviour is


Here, I'll say it too - - they're unpredictable . . . . now you're just trolling - please stop.


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## xhexdx (Mar 24, 2011)

Because it's a primitive arachnid who is coded to respond to stimuli in specific ways.  You screwed with her too much, that's why.

Check the bite reports on G. rosea.  They're not as 'docile' as you think they are.

I'm done with this thread.  You're just not getting it.


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## insane247 (Mar 24, 2011)

and i dont often use the search function on things that are not a popular topic because otherwise you do not get your results. you either get results that are popularily used, or ones that only use two words from your search. again, you are talking to me like i am stupid. i know how to use the search function ok! but i can tell when i am not going to get accurate to my question results. so asking a person with experience is often better. especially since results can give you an answer, but an experienced person can either give you a different answer, or a better answer


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## KoriTamashii (Mar 24, 2011)

insane247 said:


> and i dont often use the search function on things that are not a popular topic because otherwise you do not get your results. you either get results that are popularily used, or ones that only use two words from your search. again, you are talking to me like i am stupid. i know how to use the search function ok! but i can tell when i am not going to get accurate to my question results. so asking a person with experience is often better. especially since results can give you an answer, but an experienced person can either give you a different answer, or a better answer


Well the thing is, people with experience have replied to your question, and no matter what anyone says, you're not listening. Why ask a question if you're not going to listen to anyone's answer unless it's what you think you want to hear?


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## xhexdx (Mar 24, 2011)

insane247 said:


> and i dont often use the search function on things that are not a popular topic because otherwise you do not get your results. you either get results that are popularily used, or ones that only use two words from your search. again, you are talking to me like i am stupid. i know how to use the search function ok! but i can tell when i am not going to get accurate to my question results. so asking a person with experience is often better. especially since results can give you an answer, but an experienced person can either give you a different answer, or a better answer


I didn't tell you how to use the search function.  You're reading my signature.

You say I'm treating you like you're stupid, but...

Here though, I'll show you a tutorial on it so maybe you can learn a bit and get some more specific results when searching:



xhexdx said:


> Alright, here it is:
> 
> There are two ways to access the search tool.  From the main page, you can access it in the toolbar directly below your login information (top right corner) and across the length of the site, horizontally:
> 
> ...


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## insane247 (Mar 24, 2011)

i am _getting_ it. BUT read the comment about the speaker ok? you are being ignorant and once again talking to me like i'm stupid


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## Sidi (Mar 24, 2011)

I watched a documentary about T's, said their natural enemies in the wild is trolls, they always bite trolls! ;P


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## xhexdx (Mar 24, 2011)

Do you know what ignorant means?


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## insane247 (Mar 24, 2011)

and whether it was your signature or not. you just did it again (talking to me like i'm stupid) by posting the tutorial. and you're doing it again by implying i do not know the meaning of the word "ignorance". COME ON!


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## Sidi (Mar 24, 2011)

Spiderman24
Suspended
 Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Indiana
Posts: 157


insane247
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 21

Same person??


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## xhexdx (Mar 24, 2011)

insane247 said:


> and whether it was your signature or not. you just did it again (talking to me like i'm stupid) by posting the tutorial. and you're doing it again by implying i do not know the meaning of the word "ignorance". COME ON!


Then please explain in detail how Kori is ignorant.



insane247 said:


> i am _getting_ it. BUT read the comment about the speaker ok? you are being ignorant and once again talking to me like i'm stupid


I don't want an answer like 'by talking to me like I'm stupid".  I want you to *explain* to me how that is ignorance.


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## insane247 (Mar 24, 2011)

and now people are ignoring the fact that i have said details of my question were being ignored. and the people that have answered the question did not help, because they were listing things that a) did not happen or b) if they were the cause then i would have been bitten more times than once in 6 months

i am not the one who is not listening. i have considered all the answers. and i have said many times that if any of the possible causes given were the cause in this case then there would have been more bites than just this. heck there would have at least been some threat displays and kicking of hairs on separate incidents. BUT THERE WASNT! making the answers given not fit. i'm not stupid, and i am reading and considering all the answers. a stupid person would accept an answer that does not fit. stupid people do not analize an answer when many are given to decide if it may be right in a certain case. 

it's not that i am not listening, it's that i have experiences with the spider and reasoning that suggests the answers i have been given cannot be the case. again: if a creature was as unpredictable as you say, i would have been bitten before this, and often

---------- Post added at 10:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:41 PM ----------

sidi no it is not the same person. i would not choose that username because i hate spiderman and i am also not a spider expert or a man.


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## KoriTamashii (Mar 24, 2011)

insane247 said:


> stupid people do not analize an answer




I just... I don't even...

If you want another answer, realize that you got careless. Even in captivity, tarantulas are wild animals. You cannot predict their behavior. How many different ways can we say this to you?


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## Musicwolf (Mar 24, 2011)

insane247 said:


> and now people are ignoring the fact that i have said details of my question were being ignored. and the people that have answered the question did not help, because they were listing things that a) did not happen or b) if they were the cause then i would have been bitten more times than once in 6 months
> 
> i am not the one who is not listening. i have considered all the answers. and i have said many times that if any of the possible causes given were the cause in this case then there would have been more bites than just this. heck there would have at least been some threat displays and kicking of hairs on separate incidents. BUT THERE WASNT! making the answers given not fit. i'm not stupid, and i am reading and considering all the answers. a stupid person would accept an answer that does not fit. stupid people do not analize an answer when many are given to decide if it may be right in a certain case.
> 
> it's not that i am not listening, it's that i have experiences with the spider and reasoning that suggests the answers i have been given cannot be the case. again: if a creature was as unpredictable as you say, i would have been bitten before this, and often


And you know all of this by your vast experience . . . . why did you come here to ask questions again? You mam are NOT listening, and are indeed coming across as being at least somewhat stupid. By definition unpredictable means that you don't know it would have happened before now. YOU CANNOT PREDICT THEIR BEHAVIOR!


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## xhexdx (Mar 24, 2011)

KoriTamashii said:


> How many different ways can we say this to you?


Doesn't matter, it won't help anything.


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## insane247 (Mar 24, 2011)

xhexdx i called you ignorant because you said she bit me because i was ignoring her ques. and it is strange to say that is the reason when i have said multiple times that i am not asking why she bit me (my thread title was an abbreviation of my question) i am asking why she was behaving aggressively when she never has. and please do not say that it is because she is a spider or because roseas are unpredictable. because i'll have to say a 7th time that if that were the reason, i would have been bitten many times before this

so i called you ignorant because i said that many times, and you still gave an answer that ignored those certain details from my questions


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## Sidi (Mar 24, 2011)

Adjective: unpredictable  ,ún-pri'dik-tu-bul

   1. Not capable of being foretold

   2. Unknown in advance
      "an unpredictable (or indeterminable) future"

   3. Not occurring at expected times

Basically, you could go 10yrs without a threat display and one day because a T is "unpredictable" it will bite you!

You had so many warnings from your T too, honestly, I'm going to say what I think and that is YOU'RE STUPID! :?


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## Lolita (Mar 24, 2011)

hopefully this will put an end to this, tarantulas typically are more sensitive to their envoirment than you think if there were more noise or vibrations in the room that day it could have put it in a crabby mood or a thousand other factors truth is rosies (and from what i've experienced grammostola's in general at least with my 4 rosies and 1 chaco) are unpredictable i have a female that i had 8 months i go to pick her up like usual and she postures and kicks hairs so instead of pestering her i just took my hand out put the lid back on a walked away she hasn't done it since but theres no way to know what factors affected that posturing ect and over thinking it just doesn't work just instead of trying to figure out the cause because it could be something your not thinking about and wouldn't because it has no affect on you if they kick hair posture or any other sign off aggression leave them alone for the day you'll get bit less and have less frustration trying to figure it out now i believe all your questions have been answered


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## insane247 (Mar 24, 2011)

wow, unpredictable means that something shows frequent random behaviour for no reason. people can be classed as unpredictable because many people do not have (evident) reasons behind lots of behavoiur, but there still are people that can be more predictable than others. and if someone is unpredictable, they would often do things for no apparent reason. if someone did something unexplainable for the first time in ever knowing them, you could not class them so. you can still say that people are unpredictable by still having that one person that one person that is generally predictable.

how much do i need to explain and in how much detail that given the fact that it is an unpredictable breed, does not mean that every member is so? and how much do i need to explain that something that is generally unpredictable would show much more unexplainable behaviour than this member has shown?

this doesnt need to be an arguement. it can be as simple as not giving in your own opinion, which i did not ask for, and give what could be the possible reasons for this reaction, other than typical roseas behaviour. because every species shows members that do not follow the norm. all i asked for was possible environmental causes so i can filter out what might have been the ONE to do it. which i have been doing. because so far i have not been given a reason that FITS. and i do not want to have to explain further as to why the characteristic of being unpredictable does not fit because i have been very clear and i am still having details ignored.

---------- Post added at 11:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:00 PM ----------

thank you for being polite and for paying attention to my details lolita


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## Sidi (Mar 24, 2011)

Where do you get "frequent" random behavior from in that definition?


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## insane247 (Mar 24, 2011)

that's what could have been said all this time (that came from lolita) that a  cause cannot be narrowed because they are sensetive. thank you.

and for the record i ignored the first two kicks because she is flinchy by first touch, so i thought she would settle, as normal. after the third i was going to leave her alone but i wanted to give her hide back so she could feel safe again but i did not want to pinch her legs. (and i would have put it somewhere else but the opening is not large enough for her to fit and i have the branches placed so it lifts the one side up a bit, making the opening larger for her to fit under it)


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## xhexdx (Mar 24, 2011)

insane247 said:


> xhexdx i called you ignorant because you said she bit me because i was ignoring her ques. and it is strange to say that is the reason when i have said multiple times that i am not asking why she bit me (my thread title was an abbreviation of my question) i am asking why she was behaving aggressively when she never has. and please do not say that it is because she is a spider or because roseas are unpredictable. because i'll have to say a 7th time that if that were the reason, i would have been bitten many times before this
> 
> so i called you ignorant because i said that many times, and you still gave an answer that ignored those certain details from my questions


I didn't ask why you called me ignorant, because you didn't call me ignorant.

You called Kori ignorant.

I don't care what your 'logic' tells you, saying you'd have been bitten many times before this because they're unpredictable is ridiculous.

Check.
The.
Bite.
Reports.

You also confirmed in your post (quoted above) that you actually *did* receive answers to your question regarding its behavior.  You're just choosing to ignore them.


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## insane247 (Mar 24, 2011)

xhexdx said:


> I don't want an answer like 'by talking to me like I'm stupid".  I want you to *explain* to me how that is ignorance.


proof you asked why i said it was being ignorant


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## Fran (Mar 24, 2011)

Tarantulas, as any wild animal,  can be unpredictable at ANY time.


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## Lolita (Mar 24, 2011)

insane247 said:


> [/COLOR]thank you for being polite and for paying attention to my details lolita


yep i might be able to help fix some factors that could've caused it is she kept in a high traffic area? and area where cats or dogs can get to if you own them? is she on a shelf? did you mess with something she might be territorial over? could there be a possibility of premolt? you said she was fed a couple days ago so i doubt thats a reason but theres like 40 million reasons to piss off a tarantula some are just easier to figure out than others. but the most important thing is like i said if she postures or kicks leave her be those are don't mess with me signs and since this is your first tarantula that you said was bought on impulse you could have just not recognized the signs


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## insane247 (Mar 24, 2011)

and i never said i chose to ignore answers. i said i filtered them because they did not fit. once again, a stupid person would accept an answer that does not fit


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## Chris_Skeleton (Mar 24, 2011)

Um... If it were to bite you before and many times, then that would've become predictable, then you would not have attempted to pick it up again because you knew it would bite you. Therefore, this bite was unpredictable. Did you predict it to happen? I didn't think so. Could you have, if it happened before? Yes. So don't say it would've happened more than it already has. 

How can you say what caused it and what did not cause it? You've been given plenty of answers yet you throw them out because they do not "fit". How would you even begin to know? How long have you kept tarantulas? Has it been longer than any of the others here? People that are more experienced than you and more knowledgeable have given you reasons yet you blow them off. 

Like you said:


			
				insane247 said:
			
		

> i am also not a spider expert


I suggest you start taking others advice and not throwing it out because you don't THINK it "fits."


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## xhexdx (Mar 24, 2011)

So what does that say about someone who doesn't accept an answer that does?


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## Chris_Skeleton (Mar 24, 2011)

xhexdx said:


> So what does that say about someone who doesn't accept an answer that does?


:worship::clap:


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## Woodsy (Mar 24, 2011)

why would she bite you?

Well 3 flicks is her way of saying im stressed and threatened back of witch you did not do so she bit you...............

and to clarify she bit you because she was probably threatened and wanted space. she let you know that if you did not back off she will attack.

That's all you need to know and learn to back off and let here calm down for next time you see her flick hers at you.


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## insane247 (Mar 24, 2011)

so i am ignoring everyone now but lolita because she is actually trying to help, not argue. i'm not trying to be rude by ignoring you all but i just want to stop arguing and get back to my question with someone who is willing to listen

she is not in a high traffic area. I live alone and have no other pets. She is on a shelf, I would normally think that taking her off the shelf first might have put her on edge, but, that is what I always do, so it doesn’t seem right that it would have been the cause. I did remove her hide, but that too is also something that never has set her off before. And I had fed her the day before this happened. But I did recognize the signs. I knew about how they kick off hairs and the way they stand when they are preparing to bite if needed because I have seen it on (world’s deadliest) and other documentary shows. I can say that 100% she has never kicked a hair or thrown a threat display with me before. I would have known if I saw it because i have seen it many times before with other spiders. The only time I have seen her on edge is when she has been handled, and then put back in and fed, she does not immediately go for the cricket because I believe she thinks the movement is still from my hand. I fed her again yesterday so she is not in premolt. The reason why I am so confused is because there was nothing different about that day than there was any other day. And she is fine to handle now. the only thing i can think of that had changed was the cricket chirping. which i found it and fed to her and she is calm now. but it was said before that they cannot hear so......yeah


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## Lolita (Mar 24, 2011)

insane247 said:


> so i am ignoring everyone now but lolita because she is actually trying to help, not argue. i'm not trying to be rude by ignoring you all but i just want to stop arguing and get back to my question with someone who is willing to listen
> 
> she is not in a high traffic area. I live alone and have no other pets. She is on a shelf, I would normally think that taking her off the shelf first might have put her on edge, but, that is what I always do, so it doesn’t seem right that it would have been the cause. I did remove her hide, but that too is also something that never has set her off before. And I had fed her the day before this happened. But I did recognize the signs. I knew about how they kick off hairs and the way they stand when they are preparing to bite if needed because I have seen it on (world’s deadliest) and other documentary shows. I can say that 100% she has never kicked a hair or thrown a threat display with me before. I would have known if I saw it because i have seen it many times before with other spiders. The only time I have seen her on edge is when she has been handled, and then put back in and fed, she does not immediately go for the cricket because I believe she thinks the movement is still from my hand. I fed her again yesterday so she is not in premolt. The reason why I am so confused is because there was nothing different about that day than there was any other day. And she is fine to handle now. the only thing i can think of that had changed was the cricket chirping. which i found it and fed to her and she is calm now. but it was said before that they cannot hear so......yeah


well i'm stumped lol it could have just been part of your normal routine she just didn't wanna put up with that day i have no clue to be honest i don't really think you'll gonna find the cause of it given the circumstances but next time be more aware of what those warnings are leading to instead afterall hindsight is 20/20 also if i were you i wouldn't remove her hide to take her out when i handle mine if they retreat to their hides i take that as a sign of not wanting to be messed with that day. also your profile says you have 2 cats and a dog but your reply says you have no other pets? i'm confused


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## insane247 (Mar 24, 2011)

i never implied that being unpredictable means always biting. but it would mean, calm for a few days, bite one day, calm for a week, bite again, bite the next day,  calm. etc. an unpredictable thing would still bite more than once in 6 months


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## Sidi (Mar 24, 2011)

One question for you, you said you nudged her to replace the log, was the log her home??

Did you rip up her home just to handle her?

I'm sure if I bulldozed your house and then asked you out to play you would tell me to bugger off too


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## KoriTamashii (Mar 24, 2011)

insane247 said:


> i never implied that being unpredictable means always biting. but it would mean, calm for a few days, bite one day, calm for a week, bite again, bite the next day,  calm. etc. an unpredictable thing would still bite more than once in 6 months


That's.. why it's called unpredictable.


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## Woodsy (Mar 24, 2011)

insane247 said:


> so i am ignoring everyone now but lolita because she is actually trying to help, not argue. i'm not trying to be rude by ignoring you all but i just want to stop arguing and get back to my question with someone who is willing to listen
> 
> she is not in a high traffic area. I live alone and have no other pets. She is on a shelf, I would normally think that taking her off the shelf first might have put her on edge, but, that is what I always do, so it doesn’t seem right that it would have been the cause. I did remove her hide, but that too is also something that never has set her off before. And I had fed her the day before this happened. But I did recognize the signs. I knew about how they kick off hairs and the way they stand when they are preparing to bite if needed because I have seen it on (world’s deadliest) and other documentary shows. I can say that 100% she has never kicked a hair or thrown a threat display with me before. I would have known if I saw it because i have seen it many times before with other spiders. The only time I have seen her on edge is when she has been handled, and then put back in and fed, she does not immediately go for the cricket because I believe she thinks the movement is still from my hand. I fed her again yesterday so she is not in premolt. The reason why I am so confused is because there was nothing different about that day than there was any other day. And she is fine to handle now. the only thing i can think of that had changed was the cricket chirping. which i found it and fed to her and she is calm now. but it was said before that they cannot hear so......yeah


(sigh) :wall: some ppl just cant be helped oh well good luck with your t than mate i hope next time you heed her warnings.....


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## mitchrobot (Mar 24, 2011)

for some reason you are trying to find an answer to a question, that to be honest, no one can probably answer. im not sure why you cant accept that "she has fangs, and can bite, maybe she wont 99.9% of the time, but the possibility exists, because she is a wild animal that doesnt always want to be handled" 

listen to this, 
i have a pair of big pulchras...any day of the week, if i had to pick my most docile Ts...they would be it. monday, teusday, wednesday, theyre super chill,  i can probably handle them most any time (although i rarely do). BUT, i have actually come pretty close to being tagged by them. now...ive had these spiders for a few years...i feel i "know" them pretty well, although i would never in a million years kid myself in thinking i can truly accurately say that i wont get bit by them on any given interaction with them. if i handle them enough, ill probably get fanged. theyre non-threatening and tolerant most of the time. but they have their moments, and sometimes choose "bite that much larger threatening thing that is moving towards me" over "dont move, or maybe wander around for a bit". 

hey, maybe it has to do with the barometric pressure, stage in a molt cycle (just because the spider isnt visibly in pre-molt doesnt mean its bodily functions are cranking away doing who-knows-what), maybe it has something to do with the position of the moon, or particles in the air small and insignificant to us, or maybe a soap or lotion on your skin. who knows. 

as said and ignored a trillion thousand times in this thread "your spider just didnt feel like it that day". do your best to be respectful of signs that your spider isnt in the mood, and accept that if you muck with your spider enough times, you will eventually get bit, for reasons you might not be able to explain. its a spider. they can bite. 

now im off to get drunk and watch The Thing. 
~m


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## Bigboy (Mar 24, 2011)

This thread has gone on for far too long, the answer to the question presented has been given.  There is nothing more to discuss and constant squabbling is not going to resolve whatever is going on here at this point.  If there are other questions find the appropriate sub-forum (might I suggest tarantula chat) and take personal arguments to PM's please.

Could we please get a lock on this?


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## Redneck (Mar 24, 2011)

You know, I cant bring myself to actually read this whole thread... I feel, I might get dumber. So, I just skimmed the pages. And just couldnt help quote a few posts....

Here are the replies....



insane247 said:


> i never implied that being unpredictable means always biting. but it would mean, calm for a few days, bite one day, calm for a week, bite again, bite the next day,  calm. etc. an unpredictable thing would still bite more than once in 6 months


You cant *predict* what an *unpredictable* thing is going to do. Now, read what the words in *bold* say... Those are suttle hints, just to kind of help you... Okay? Read them slowly, & multiple times if you have to...


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## JC50 (Mar 24, 2011)

She bit you because you failed to recognize her attempts to let you know she did not want to be touched.This could happen after one attempt to hold her or twelve thousand times.This is because it is a tarantula and they are unpredictable and rose hairs do tend to bite and i believe this is why people want you to use the search function and read these reports for yourself.
 You are going to drive yourself crazy trying to find the answer you want to hear and do not seem to realize that you can speculate and ponder this question until you are old and gray. Same answer: It is an unpredictable animal that will bite if you continue to bother it after it has let you know to stop and you failed to realize that.Plain and simple.


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## insane247 (Mar 24, 2011)

look im done here. someone helped me in the proper way and im tired of repeating myself. so please no more posts


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## campj (Mar 24, 2011)

buy an ornata


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## Mojo Jojo (Mar 24, 2011)

In my opinion, Insane247, you are getting frustrated because we are trying to resolve the part of the issue that I have marked in dark red, when in fact, you really want us to resolve the part of the issue that I have marked in blue. 

*Why did the spider bite? * Because you kept messing with it.  

*We have a bond.  We trust each other.  What did I do to break that trust?*  You believe(d) that the trust that you have in your tarantula has been, up until this event, reciprocated back to you from your tarantula.  But it hasn't.  Your tarantula doesn't know you from Adam and certainly doesn't feel a bond with you as you do it.  We've tried to get you to understand this.  If you can't resolve this issue now, you need the kind of help that we are not able to provide.

Here is your original post.  I used the same colors to mark the portions of the post that led me to my statements above.



insane247 said:


> so today i went to pick up my rosea. *i usually guide her into my hand. the first touch or two usually startles her, but she calms down and realizes it's just me and walks into my hand.* *today she flinched, then the second time i touched her she kicked a hair off on me. she did that three times and then i decided to leave her alone, but she was in the way of where i put the hide so i tried to move her so i would not crush her leg or something and she bit me!*
> 
> *the reason why this is so wierd is because i have had her since october and she has never shown any agression to me before. sometimes she is scared but once she knows it's me she calms down. she has never so much as kicked a hair off on me let alone bite me!* and she is not molting because she just ate 3 crickets yesterday. (i gave her more than usual because i could not get to the pet store last week and she went almost a week without food)
> 
> *can anyone tell me reasons why a dostile breed like this and a member of it that is dostile compared to others would bite* *when i did nothing that i dont normally do? i am so gob-smacked about this whole thing*


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## becca81 (Mar 24, 2011)

Bigboy said:


> This thread has gone on for far too long, the answer to the question presented has been given.  There is nothing more to discuss and constant squabbling is not going to resolve whatever is going on here at this point.  If there are other questions find the appropriate sub-forum (might I suggest tarantula chat) and take personal arguments to PM's please.
> 
> Could we please get a lock on this?


Done.

The question has been answered.  

Insane, if you'd like more information, here are some threads for reference:

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=287

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=24986&highlight=rose+bite

Good luck,
Becca


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## MrDeranged (Mar 24, 2011)

Just a final note on this thread.

*Tarantulas DO NOT need a reason to bite you.*

Dogs that have been collectively domesticated for 1000's of years can still turn around and bite for no reason.

Chimpanzee's raised as a family member can decide to turn around and chew off your face.

Tarantulas are not domesticated, nor do they have higher cognitive abilities.

They are wild animals.  They are unpredictable.

*They DO NOT need a reason to bite you.*


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