# Calcium and its effects on tarantulas



## NoahThomas43 (Jan 5, 2018)

Hi!
I’ve read numerous posts, articles, etc. about the alleged effects Calcium may have on Tarantulas. Some claiming that high Calcium intake does not lead to any significant issues for tarantulas and others suggesting the contrary. I am aware that this hasn’t been properly researched and tested to produce a conclusive answer. I have an OBT sling, and about twenty baby crickets whom I’ve been feeding a Calcium-based block and some water. Two of my crickets had died (not related to the subject of this post, but they were bought from PetSmart). I want to see your guys’ perspective on this prior to feeding any crickets to the sling.

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## Sarkhan42 (Jan 5, 2018)

Calcium does not provide any significant benefit to tarantulas, and there is also no significant evidence to believe that it is harmful to them. Many species in the wild have access to vertebrate prey like small amphibians regularly, and many keepers feed mice regularly to no ill effect.

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## NoahThomas43 (Jan 5, 2018)

Sarkhan42 said:


> Calcium does not provide any significant benefit to tarantulas, and there is also no significant evidence to believe that it is harmful to them. Many species in the wild have access to vertebrate prey like small amphibians regularly, and many keepers feed mice regularly to no ill effect.


Thanks for the reply!


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## Nightstalker47 (Jan 5, 2018)

NoahThomas43 said:


> Hi!
> I’ve read numerous posts, articles, etc. about the alleged effects Calcium may have on Tarantulas. Some claiming that high Calcium intake does not lead to any significant issues for tarantulas and others suggesting the contrary. I am aware that this hasn’t been properly researched and tested to produce a conclusive answer. I have an OBT sling, and about twenty baby crickets whom I’ve been feeding a Calcium-based block and some water. Two of my crickets had died (not related to the subject of this post, but they were bought from PetSmart). I want to see your guys’ perspective on this prior to feeding any crickets to the sling.


Don't worry about the whole calcium intake myth. Here's the backstory. 

Many new keepers were feeding their spiders mice and experienced bad molts...they immediately blamed the mice and their high calcium content. But there is far more to it.

Truth is they rushed into advanced species without doing their due diligence...and had their husbandry way off. Casualties were reported and falsely accounted for. This was how the myth began spreading, so be careful who you trust with information.

Unsurprisingly, most of these cases also happen to involve Theraphosa, who are sensitive to husbandry mistakes. 

With all that said don't raise your crickets solely on calcium blocks and water. They should be fed fruits and vegetables as their staple.

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## NoahThomas43 (Jan 5, 2018)

Nightstalker47 said:


> Don't worry about the whole calcium intake myth. Here's the backstory.
> 
> Many new keepers were feeding their spiders mice and experienced bad molts...they immediately blamed the mice and their high calcium content. But there is far more to it.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the information! Yea, was suspecting it was more so based on myth. I will feed the crickets a more varied diet.


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## AphonopelmaTX (Jan 5, 2018)

Stan Schultz, author of the Tarantula Keeper's guide, wrote a good overview of this myth.  View here.

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## BoyFromLA (Jan 5, 2018)

Nightstalker47 said:


> Many new keepers were feeding their spiders mice and experienced bad molts...they immediately blamed the mice and their high calcium content. But there is far more to it.
> 
> Truth is they rushed into advanced species without doing their due diligence...and had their husbandry way off. Casualties were reported and falsely accounted for. This was how the myth began spreading, so be careful who you trust with information.


So that’s how the ‘calcium in take myth’ all began, interesting.


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## NoahThomas43 (Jan 5, 2018)

AphonopelmaTX said:


> Stan Schultz, author of the Tarantula Keeper's guide, wrote a good overview of this myth.  View here.


Interesting, thanks!


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## NoahThomas43 (Jan 5, 2018)

Nightstalker47 said:


> Don't worry about the whole calcium intake myth. Here's the backstory.
> 
> Many new keepers were feeding their spiders mice and experienced bad molts...they immediately blamed the mice and their high calcium content. But there is far more to it.
> 
> ...


Any idea why my crickets keep dying? Found another one upside down not too long ago, with minimal movement.


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## The Grym Reaper (Jan 5, 2018)

The calcium thing is a myth, It'd still be a good idea give your crickets a more varied diet, a mix of cereal grains and fish food to eat and bug gel to keep them hydrated worked really well for me.



NoahThomas43 said:


> Any idea why my crickets keep dying? Found another one upside down not too long ago, with minimal movement.


What are you keeping them in? 
How well-ventilated is it? Poor ventilation = dead crickets
Do they have plenty of places to hide? Not enough hiding places = cramped crickets = dead crickets
Do they always have food/water available? No food/water (mostly applies to water though) = cannibalism = dead crickets

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## Thekla (Jan 5, 2018)

How do you keep your crickets? 
From my experience they won't die that easily.  I bought a small box of medium sized crickets (~ 30) in September and they lasted nearly 4 months until they were all eaten up. I had a few casualties of course but nothing I didn't expect. In the end I had only fully grown adults.


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## The Grym Reaper (Jan 5, 2018)

Thekla said:


> From my experience they won't die that easily.  I bought a small box of medium sized crickets (~ 30) in September and they lasted nearly 4 months until they were all eaten up. I had a few casualties of course but nothing I didn't expect. In the end I had only fully grown adults.


Crickets dying in droves seems to mostly be an American thing lol. My main problem with them was ending up with a surplus of chirping bastard MMs 

I posted a short guide for keeping them in a few threads on here somewhere but they're probably buried by now, I'll try and dig one out later.

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## NoahThomas43 (Jan 5, 2018)

The Grym Reaper said:


> The calcium thing is a myth, It'd still be a good idea give your crickets a more varied diet, a mix of cereal grains and fish food to eat and bug gel to keep them hydrated worked really well for me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A food storage container with sufficient ventilation, i placed a piece of egg carton inside as a hide, and both water and food are available to them. 3 of the 20 died, not like that's a lot but is that normal?


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## Thekla (Jan 5, 2018)

NoahThomas43 said:


> A food storage container with sufficient ventilation, i placed a piece of egg carton inside as a hide, and both water and food are available to them. 3 of the 20 died, not like that's a lot but is that normal?


Just out of curiosity... are you sure they died? Did you count them, after you found a dead one? I ask because in the beginning I thought I had more deaths as well, before I realised I picked some discarded moults out of the kritter keeper.

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## NoahThomas43 (Jan 5, 2018)

Thekla said:


> Just out of curiosity... are you sure they died? Did you count them, after you found a dead one? I ask because in the beginning I thought I had more deaths as well, before I realised I picked some discarded moults out of the kritter keeper.


haha i'm sure because I am familiar with what molts look like and the three that died flipped onto their backs and one of the three turned a dark brown.


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## Thekla (Jan 5, 2018)

Hehe, okay, just wanted to make sure. 

It actually left me speechless, the first time I watched a cricket moulting... looks so "alien".

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## AphonopelmaTX (Jan 5, 2018)

NoahThomas43 said:


> Any idea why my crickets keep dying? Found another one upside down not too long ago, with minimal movement.


Three out of 20 crickets dying isn't something to be concerned about.  I read in your initial post that you got them from PetSmart.  Pet store crickets are typically so unhealthy die offs are inevitable after a short time after bringing them home.  I get mine in bulk from Fluker Farms and I always have several die shortly after being setup properly.  You don't say how large the crickets are that you bought.  The lifespan of a crickets isn't too long.  If you buy your crickets as fully grown adults (about an inch in length) its a possibility the three died from old age.  Crickets don't live very long after reaching maturity.

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## NoahThomas43 (Jan 5, 2018)

Thekla said:


> Hehe, okay, just wanted to make sure.
> 
> It actually left me speechless, the first time I watched a cricket moulting... looks so "alien".
> 
> View attachment 262327


Yes it does! From another planet lol


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## NoahThomas43 (Jan 5, 2018)

AphonopelmaTX said:


> Three out of 20 crickets dying isn't something to be concerned about.  I read in your initial post that you got them from PetSmart.  Pet store crickets are typically so unhealthy die offs are inevitable after a short time after bringing them home.  I get mine in bulk from Fluker Farms and I always have several die shortly after being setup properly.  You don't say how large the crickets are that you bought.  The lifespan of a crickets isn't too long.  If you buy your crickets as fully grown adults (about an inch in length) its a possibility the three died from old age.  Crickets don't live very long after reaching maturity.


Oh ok, I figured. They are small crickets.


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## McSP1D8R (Jan 5, 2018)

All organisms need calcium in some way to maintain proper cellular function, animals without a skeletal storage site will have it as free flowing Ca2+ ions with some stored in organelles. Insect prey will deliver the necessary amounts for maintainence, whether a huge increase in consumed calcium has any detrimental effect remains to be seen. I found this article a while back which is a very interesting find:
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&s...HAAEQFgghMAE&usg=AOvVaw0pAeY4TW_VQS4_MBVs1FrQ

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## McSP1D8R (Jan 5, 2018)

Also I bloody hate using crickets as feeders, they stink and always ended up moulting and maturing quickly from the food I gave them + high temps in my house then snuffed it. Roaches for the win, if dubia roaches are too large then turkistan/red runners are awesome

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## The Grym Reaper (Jan 5, 2018)

NoahThomas43 said:


> A food storage container with sufficient ventilation, i placed a piece of egg carton inside as a hide, and both water and food are available to them. 3 of the 20 died, not like that's a lot but is that normal?


3 out of 20 isn't horrific, you said you got them from Pet Smart (or a similar chain store) so that probably explains a lot.

The post wasn't buried (it was actually pretty easy to find lol).

Quick care guide for "filthy cricketses".

http://arachnoboards.com/threads/feeding-and-maintaining-feeders.297149/#post-2669113

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## viper69 (Jan 6, 2018)

It's just a myth. However too much of anything is bad for an animal. Defining "too much" in a meaningful physiological manner is rarely done for most animals anyway.

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## cold blood (Jan 6, 2018)

While its a total myth....you should still use other food....what you are feeding is a reptile suppliment....just feed kibble (dog or cat) and bits of carrot.


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## NoahThomas43 (Jan 6, 2018)

cold blood said:


> While its a total myth....you should still use other food....what you are feeding is a reptile suppliment....just feed kibble (dog or cat) and bits of carrot.


Yea, I’ve been feeding them fruits and veggies.


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## CEC (Jan 10, 2018)

BoyFromLA said:


> So that’s how the ‘calcium in take myth’ all began, interesting.


That's how many myths begin. Take your average mites and mold for example. They're often falsely accused for the demise of a spider without proof. People often like fingerpointing causes of death in effort to avoid it in the future but when little is known about Theraphosidae health, presumed causes can easily become myth. Unknown causes are abundant, ambiguous and a part of the hobby. When husbandry and hydration is on point, it's hard say for sure what happened... The more experience one has raising a species, the more likely they will alter their assumption of causes. Once something is deemed the reason for a death by a novice (often ignoring the probability of coincidence) it commonly starts a regurgitation or domino effect of presumptions and falsehoods.

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## CEC (Jan 10, 2018)

AphonopelmaTX said:


> Crickets don't live very long after reaching maturity.


Tell that to the male cricket hiding behind my frig that was chirping for what I swear felt like over a month. Lol

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## boina (Jan 10, 2018)

CEC said:


> That's how many myths begin. Take your average mites and mold for example. They're often falsely accused for the demise of a spider without proof. People often like fingerpointing causes of death in effort to avoid it in the future but when little is known about Theraphosidae health, presumed causes can easily become myth. Unknown causes are abundant, ambiguous and a part of the hobby. When husbandry and hydration is on point, it's hard say for sure what happened... The more experience one has raising a species, the more likely they will alter their assumption of causes. Once something is deemed the reason for a death by a novice (often ignoring the probability of coincidence) it commonly starts a regurgitation or domino effect of presumptions and falsehoods.


I just want to agree to this about 20 times - at least.

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## AphonopelmaTX (Jan 10, 2018)

CEC said:


> Tell that to the male cricket hiding behind my frig that was chirping for what I swear felt like over a month. Lol


Now that you made that statement I think I underestimated a cricket's ability to live a long annoying life.    I know I have had my fair share of run away crickets chirping for what seemed like a month or longer.  I even had one escape and find its way to a crack in the moulding on my bedroom ceiling right above my bed.  It had a short life though.

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## cold blood (Jan 11, 2018)

AphonopelmaTX said:


> Now that you made that statement I think I underestimated a cricket's ability to live a long annoying life.    I know I have had my fair share of run away crickets chirping for what seemed like a month or longer.  I even had one escape and find its way to a crack in the moulding on my bedroom ceiling right above my bed.  It had a short life though.


Last summer I had one escape....that irritating....yeah, lived almost 2 months before I managed to catch him.     People kept asking if something was being worked on when the came over because all the grates were removed.


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## Mithricat (Jan 11, 2018)

IMO people are overdoing it with supplementation and it's mostly something that originated in the reptile community that tends to use several of the same feeders.

Tarantulas have been around for millions of years, consuming a variety of prey with different and varied diets. Nobody was dusting or gutloading these insects with vitamins and supplements for millions of years and yet the tarantulas not only survived but positively thrived.

As long as you give your feeders a varied diet (assuming you raise your own) you shouldn't need to worry at all about supplements and vitamins. Nature will take its course and your Ts will grow up healthy and happy. Unnaturally messing with the body chemistry of your feeders is unnecessary and potentially harmful.


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## darkness975 (Jan 11, 2018)

Feeding mice to Tarantulas isn't a good idea.  Not because of the calcium myth, but because it creates a truly disgusting bolus and the mouse poses a risk of injuring the Tarantula while fighting back.

I give my crickets dry fish flakes, a water dish with a paper towel soaked in it that I change regularly, egg crates to hide in, and dry Eco earth substrate.  Even when I purchase them from chain stores I have few die offs. 

For cricket keeping the two most important factors are:

1.  Do not overcrowd them.  
2.  Keep their Enclosure dry to minimize the smell.


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## Goopyguy56 (Jan 12, 2018)

NoahThomas43 said:


> Any idea why my crickets keep dying? Found another one upside down not too long ago, with minimal movement.


I used to have the same problem. I haven't had any issues since keeping them in larger enclosures

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