# How is a "European yellow jacket" different from a yellow jacket?



## Elizabeth (Sep 22, 2004)

Link to an article about a guy that fell onto the nest of European yellow jackets and died from the result of 1,000 stings.

Aren't these also known as simply yellow jackets? Are European ones different from the yellow jackets found anywhere and everywhere?

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/09/22/insect.attack.ap/index.html


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## Michael Jacobi (Sep 22, 2004)

*Although there is a species of yellowjacket in the US known as the "German Yellowjacket" (Vespula germanica), it may be that they used the term "yellowjacket" incorrectly and it was actually the "European Hornet" (Vespa crabro), which is considered to be very defensive (not to mention large - about 1 1/2" with a 3/16" stinger). The article mentions an underground nest, which is one way the true hornet nests (as do some yellowjackets, but not the "German").*


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## David Plankton (Sep 22, 2004)

Hi. We just call them Wasps over here. Same thing though. Hornets are quite rare here


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## Rourke (Sep 22, 2004)

Elizabeth said:
			
		

> Aren't these also known as simply yellow jackets? Are European ones different from the yellow jackets found anywhere and everywhere?


The European Yellow-Jackets are most easily identifiable by their goofy accents.


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## Sheri (Sep 22, 2004)

Most unlike the canadian accent.
Here we have yellow jackets (can someone please post a pic of the european version?) and hornets which are larger, way more nasty, and black and white.

I have been stung by a hornet, which flew up my shirt. Too bad I didn't notice until 5 minutes later... anyway, was the first and only time I have been stung by any variety... and it hurt. AND did not help my phobia in the least. I had a softball sized lump on my rib cage, it ached for days! I was going to get tested for an allergy to the venom but the waiting list was so long, I decided not to bother.

My son was stung by a yellowjacket last Friday at daycare, middle finger was very swollen for a day, but I was really wondering if his behaviour wasn't affected because he was a bloody nightmare the entire weekend!

We have a ton of yellow jackets at this time of year. At least a dozen or so inside every 7-11, tons by everyone's car scavenging on dead insects on the grill, and generally making life unpleasent.


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## jezzy607 (Sep 22, 2004)

The yellowjackets in the article are either the common wasp/yellowjacket (_Vespula vulgaris_ ) introduced from europe or the German YJ (_Vespula germanica_ )  They have slight pattern differences on their abdomens from each other and our native yellowjackets (which we have many).  The black and white "hornets" Sheri is referring to are the native _Dolichovespula maculata_  or the "bald faced hornet"  They are actually a species of aerial yellowjacket, true hornets are from the old world and belong to the genus _Vespa_ one species _Vespa crabro_  was introduced to North America.  They are very large insects, but do not nest underground, they nest in tree cavities or artificial man made cavities.


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## David Plankton (Sep 22, 2004)

Mr. Rourke said:
			
		

> The European Yellow-Jackets are most easily identifiable by their goofy accents.


Err? they all sound the same to me zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz  

The German ones go vvvvvvzzzzzz


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## Michael Jacobi (Sep 22, 2004)

jezzy607 said:
			
		

> true hornets are from the old world and belong to the genus _Vespa_ one species _Vespa crabro_  was introduced to North America.  They are very large insects, but do not nest underground, they nest in tree cavities or artificial man made cavities.


*Actually, Vail & Skinner at The University of Tennessee/Agricultural Extension Service wrote that Vespa crabro "subterranean nests may be found", but that they also construct carton nests "in hollow trees, roofs, attics, wall cavities, bee hives..." Maybe they just like it underground here in Music City. I know I do.

(Click  here to download paper).

I have some photos I recently took of a European hornet that I will post as soon as I locate them... *


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## Elizabeth (Sep 22, 2004)

So, do I get this right, that there are no true native North American yellow jackets?  Yellow jackets and European yellow jackets are the same thing.  However, this could be either the _Vespula vulgaris_  or the _Vespula germanica_, depending on the exact type of yellow jacket you are looking at.  And both of these nest underground? 

This brings me to other questions.  We have yellow jackets (nests) on our property.  Would it be possible for us, in California (coastal), to have both types of yellow jacket?  Do they tolerate each other if there isn't a direct nest intrusion?  Short of listening closely to their accents, ("run a-vay or I steeng you") is there any easy way of telling the difference?  Or would I have to catch one (gulp!) and examine the patterns?

Added: Thanks for the link.  I am printing page 6 and 7 now, with drawings of patterns, or other defining features.

Now, I still want to know what we have in California, but after seeing that link, I suppose I will find out that there are far more types of yellow jackets here than I ever really wanted to face!

Thank you for the great answers!


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## Michael Jacobi (Sep 22, 2004)

Elizabeth said:
			
		

> So, do I get this right, that there are no true native North American yellow jackets?


*No. There are both native yellowjackets and introduced yellowjackets in the US, but there is no native true hornet, just the introduced Vespa crabro. Although they are closely related, wasps, yellowjackets, and hornets are distinctly different insects.*


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## Michael Jacobi (Sep 22, 2004)

Elizabeth said:
			
		

> Would it be possible for us, in California (coastal), to have both types of yellow jacket?


*To download information on California yellowjackets click here *


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## Elizabeth (Sep 22, 2004)

(Sheri, don't look at the link! It doesn't make me feel any more secure! Run a-vay!)

Thanks, Michael.  I will be looking forward to the pic of the European hornet.  I feel another book in my future somehow....Ask some questions, get hooked on a new area to research!  I MUST know how hornets are different...argh! Hooked again!


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## Elizabeth (Sep 22, 2004)

I can't get through to the Cal YJ link...Have tried 4 or 5 x now.

Google gave me this.  It's not nearly as nice as the TN paper, but:

http://www.snowcrest.net/mosquito/Updated Brochures/Microsoft Word - Yellowjackets of California.pdf

This site is fun, good for a wasp, etc., beginner like me.

http://www.bugpeople.org/taxa/Hymenoptera/Vespidae/Vespula/GenusVespulaPage.htm


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## Michael Jacobi (Sep 22, 2004)

Elizabeth said:
			
		

> I can't get through to the Cal YJ link...Have tried 4 or 5 x now.


The link in my post was broken - it was the same as the one you posted. MJ


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## mouse (Sep 22, 2004)

all i know is that in germany we had wasps (wespen) and i guess they are called yellow jackets here, they are black and yellow and can sting multiple times...and we had some bigger ones (some ppl called them neun-toeter - as in nine-killer - as in nine stings can kill you) guess those are the hornets, but i'm not to sure about getting killed by nine stings...only got stung one time by a wasp in germany.
dianne
i was living in unterfranken (lower franconia) .


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## jezzy607 (Sep 22, 2004)

Yes, Vespa crabro does nest underground, but it is the exception not the rule.  It is believed that the few(very few) Vespa crabro nests found underground were made in preexisting large cavities.  Also, until recently, all Vespula germanica colonies found in North America were made in man made structures, like wall voids, crawl spaces, attics, etc.  It is still assumed that most Vespula germanica colonies exist in man made structures.  Vespula vulgaris on the other hand is frequently found nesting in the ground.  I have a lot of good scientific literature on the Vespid wasps, all of which are at my office.  I can give you all the names of these sources tommorrow, if anyone is interested, or I can answer questions using the literature.


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## jezzy607 (Sep 22, 2004)

As a side note, We(all of us entomology grad students) had quite a laugh today when we saw the headline that included "European yellowjacket".  Although insects do not technically have official common names like birds do, some insects do have widely used common names.  None of the yellowjackets are called "European yellowjackets".  Like I mentioned previously, the two species of yellowjacket introduced here from Europe have the common names "common yellowjacket" and "German yellowjacket".

Also, if there was a Vespa crabro nest beneath your ladder, you would know it way before you put the latter next to it.  I've been close to a nest of these insects before, and it was like a colony of hummingbirds, you could hear and see them very well (they are quite loud and very large!).


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## Malhavoc's (Sep 22, 2004)

Elizabeth said:
			
		

> So, do I get this right, that there are no true native North American yellow jackets?  Yellow jackets and European yellow jackets are the same thing.  However, this could be either the _Vespula vulgaris_  or the _Vespula germanica_, depending on the exact type of yellow jacket you are looking at.  And both of these nest underground?
> 
> This brings me to other questions.  We have yellow jackets (nests) on our property.  Would it be possible for us, in California (coastal), to have both types of yellow jacket?  Do they tolerate each other if there isn't a direct nest intrusion?  Short of listening closely to their accents, ("run a-vay or I steeng you") is there any easy way of telling the difference?  Or would I have to catch one (gulp!) and examine the patterns?
> 
> ...


Don't be scared to cathc them its quiet easy get a jar, approch nest slowly, place jar around nest and slide it til lthe nest breaks and falls off.. now for the quick part, move hte lid right up to the rim of the jar [this is if you have hte jar pressed agenst a flat surface.. if surface is bumpy enough for them to escape you in for some angery stingers] anyway place jjar lid up to flat surraface nand quickly move the jar away from the flat surface and cap it with the lid.


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## Wade (Sep 23, 2004)

jezzy607 said:
			
		

> Although insects do not technically have official common names like birds do, some insects do have widely used common names.  None of the yellowjackets are called "European yellowjackets".


Dosn't the AES publish an "official" common names list?

Wade


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## jezzy607 (Sep 23, 2004)

Yes ESA does publish an "official" common names list, but not everyone agrees with its "official" status.


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## vespa_bicolor (Sep 24, 2004)

Hi,
Don't mean to crash this thread, but just thought it a better place to post, rather than opening a new one all over, since I just got this pic uploaded. 
A recent pic I took of _Vespa velutina_. This is a hornet distributed over much of East and Southeast Asia. I don't think it's nearly as big as _Vespa crabro_ though!! (22 mm body length on average)


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## Malkavian (Sep 29, 2004)

http://arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=30113

Here's a picture of what i believe to be a european hornet, found in western NC a month or two ago


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## Spaceman_Spiff (Sep 30, 2004)

Vespula vulgaris has a black, T-shaped marking on the yellow plate between its eyes,
while V. germanica mostly has three small, well defined dots between the eyes

so they are quite easy to be distinguished.

at least if the specimen is dead


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