# Mite Problem in Roach Bin



## Dark (Jan 23, 2016)

Out of nowhere my B. dubia colony has been infested with what I believe are white mites. Since I keep my roaches in my room it has become a tremendous inconvenience as these damn mites are crawling all over my desk now. At first I tried to deal with them by wiping all the insides and outside walls with a Lysol wipe and cleaning and emptying the food and water dishes. I did this for 4 days but there are still plenty left. I also started leaving the top off to help dry it out (as you can see in the pictures, there are only 10 tiny holes as the container was designed for shoes and came with the holes pre-drilled). I am worried that my roaches will starve / dehydrate before the mites are dead and I don't know what to do. I am trying to avoid removing the soil as there are plenty of baby roaches I'd have to shift out plus the cage hasn't been misted more than once many months ago (I use water gel cubes to avoid mold). What can I do to wipe these damn mites out?

I'm also worried that these damn mites will infest my A. tesselata (peppered roach bin) because the soil is actually moist in their enclosure (fortunately it is located on the other side of the room).

Thanks!
Eric

You can see the mites in the bottom picture, they are all those damn tiny dots.


----------



## MWAInverts (Jan 23, 2016)

Unfortunately your best bet is to sift and remove all infested substrate. Mite outbreaks like this are usually due to spoiled food that probably got moved underneath the substrate by the roaches. Do you happen to feed dog or cat food?

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## The Snark (Jan 23, 2016)

Darkpredator said:


> What can I do to wipe these damn mites out?
> 
> I'm also worried that these damn mites will infest my A. tesselata (peppered roach bin) because the soil is actually moist in their enclosure (fortunately it is located on the other side of the room).


I'd recommend a good powerful isotope. Cobalt 60 maybe. And of course move to another house while the treatment is ongoing.
Spread. The eggs are light enough to be carried by a gentle breeze and of course get carried by your skin and clothing or whatever. They are also, in all intents and purposes, born pregnant. 

(I've got white, grain mites living happily is a bone dry hermetically sealed jar for 6 months now. Impressive.)

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 1


----------



## Dark (Jan 23, 2016)

MWAInverts said:


> Unfortunately your best bet is to sift and remove all infested substrate. Mite outbreaks like this are usually due to spoiled food that probably got moved underneath the substrate by the roaches. Do you happen to feed dog or cat food?


I am feeding them dry dog food mashed into powder and whatever the ingredients are of "roach chow" purchased at a reptile expo. Removing the substrate is a pain in the behind so I am going to see if anyone has a solution to avoid doing that as I do not want to kick up eggs and re-distribute more of these guys across my room as I try and clean everything. 



The Snark said:


> I'd recommend a good powerful isotope. Cobalt 60 maybe. And of course move to another house while the treatment is ongoing.
> Spread. The eggs are light enough to be carried by a gentle breeze and of course get carried by your skin and clothing or whatever. They are also, in all intents and purposes, born pregnant.
> 
> (I've got white, grain mites living happily is a bone dry hermetically sealed jar for 6 months now. Impressive.)


This certainly is very comforting, thank you. 

Eric


----------



## The Snark (Jan 23, 2016)

De nada. Come to think of it, I've got some prepackaged I can send you! You pay shipping.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Ellenantula (Jan 23, 2016)

The Snark said:


> (I've got white, grain mites living happily is a bone dry hermetically sealed jar for 6 months now. Impressive.)


+1  THIS I totally believe.   When grain mites showed up in my mealworm bin last summer (totally my fault for being overconfident "mites won't happen to me" and letting it get a bit too moist -- even catfood can hold too much moisture in a mealie enclosure though I am sure my error was the lettuces and carrots left in too long).

I am not the most patient person -- I dried things out -- no biggie, just dry out the mites (I can hear the grain mites laughing at that one!) -- well, that reduced grain mite numbers but did NOT eradicate them.  I tell no lie -- I individually rinsed off each mealworm and let them dry on papertowels in a new clean container before putting them in a NEW bin with fresh oatmeal substrate and nothing added with moisture.   But the grain mites kept recurring in spite of that.  I finally culled that whole colony.  *I totally believe that grain mites can live 6 months sans moisture, food or 02. *

I hate to sound like I live in a gross home, but I am separatist -- snake in kitchen, bearded dragon in another room, Ts in yet another room, feeders divided into two other rooms) but thanks to this approach, I didn't lose all my roaches or crix to those mites (granted, grain mites prolly are harmless but I don't want them in my house in numbers large enough I can see them!).  So prolly gross to keep a snake on kitchen counter or a bearded dragon in sunroom -- but I want to limit any cross-contamination.  I separate my critters.  I would never keep feeders in T room!  This is where excellent husbandry and 'expecting the worst' has begun to pay off.  I had to learn the hard way -- lesson learned and learned well!

I shudder to think if all were in the same room -- an extremely daunting task to clean up should invaders occur.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Hisserdude (Jan 23, 2016)

I would increase ventilation, that can help keep numbers down a bit.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Dark (Jan 23, 2016)

The Snark said:


> De nada. Come to think of it, I've got some prepackaged I can send you! You pay shipping.


I appreciate the thought but no thanks.



Ellenantula said:


> +1  THIS I totally believe.   When grain mites showed up in my mealworm bin last summer (totally my fault for being overconfident "mites won't happen to me" and letting it get a bit too moist -- even catfood can hold too much moisture in a mealie enclosure though I am sure my error was the lettuces and carrots left in too long).
> 
> I am not the most patient person -- I dried things out -- no biggie, just dry out the mites (I can hear the grain mites laughing at that one!) -- well, that reduced grain mite numbers but did NOT eradicate them.  I tell no lie -- I individually rinsed off each mealworm and let them dry on papertowels in a new clean container before putting them in a NEW bin with fresh oatmeal substrate and nothing added with moisture.   But the grain mites kept recurring in spite of that.  I finally culled that whole colony.  *I totally believe that grain mites can live 6 months sans moisture, food or 02. *
> 
> ...


Great, so essentially I have to just live with the mites or put the whole container in the freezer and start over fresh. (I'm not going to kill all my roaches,  I'll probably just have to deal with these damned things). 



Hisserdude said:


> I would increase ventilation, that can help keep numbers down a bit.


That's the plan I guess atm.


----------



## Hisserdude (Jan 23, 2016)

You may have to replace the substrate, though hopefully the added ventilation will help keep the numbers down. Have you considered getting some sort of clean up crew? I believe lesser mealworm beetles, Alphitobius diaperinus, would work well with your setup, they are darkling beetles and thus are capable of withstanding dry conditions. They would probably go a long way in keeping the mite population down.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Dark (Jan 23, 2016)

Hisserdude said:


> You may have to replace the substrate, though hopefully the added ventilation will help keep the numbers down. Have you considered getting some sort of clean up crew? I believe lesser mealworm beetles, Alphitobius diaperinus, would work well with your setup, they are darkling beetles and thus are capable of withstanding dry conditions. They would probably go a long way in keeping the mite population down.


If someone could verify that mealworms (or the beetles they turn into) could eat mites I'd introduce them into the colonies immediately however since Ellanantula said her mealworm bin got infested with them I will admit I am a little skeptical of their mite killing abilities. If there are any creatures that aren't worse than the mites that could help remove my mites I would be more than willing to introduce them.

Eric


----------



## Ellenantula (Jan 23, 2016)

My understanding, possibly incorrect, is that grain mites, like dust mites, are everywhere -- but to explode in population, they just need the right environment.  What isn't usually stated is that even when you change that ideal environment -- many may continue to thrive/survive anyway.  Grain mites are just too hardy, imo.
I had excellent ventilation before infestation (vent holes), and then I kept the lid off altogether after my 2nd or 3rd clean up (since mealworms and the beetles burrow -- not climb and escape).  Even that did not prevent grain mite re-infestation for me.  Then I culled and called it quits.
I hope you can dry yours out more successfully than me.  TBF, it was summertime and humid when my infestation occurred.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## The Snark (Jan 23, 2016)

You do know grain mites are harmless to other animals, yes? They are just competitors for food sources. Start up a colony of springtails in the same enclosure. Nothing like observing near microscopic warfare while sipping the java in the AM.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Hisserdude (Jan 23, 2016)

Darkpredator said:


> If someone could verify that mealworms (or the beetles they turn into) could eat mites I'd introduce them into the colonies immediately however since Ellanantula said her mealworm bin got infested with them I will admit I am a little skeptical of their mite killing abilities. If there are any creatures that aren't worse than the mites that could help remove my mites I would be more than willing to introduce them.
> 
> Eric


Oh the lesser mealworms don't eat the mites, they just occupy the same niche that the mites do and can out-compete them for food. Yellow Mealworms are usually reared on grain materials which is just begging for a mite infestation, I rear mine on coconut fiber and I have never had a mite problem with them.

For your mite infestation, I would replace all the substrate, add the beetles or springtails, (though springtails like a moist enclosure), and add more ventilation. Hopefully after all that, your mite problem will more or less go away. You will never be able to get rid of every single mite, it is all about controlling their numbers.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## Ellenantula (Jan 23, 2016)

Hisserdude's got it -- I don't think you can completely eradicate, only keep numbers down.  Good luck!

(I culled because I simply hated the 'moving dust' everywhere in, about, and around the mealie enclosure. Agreed the grain mites are there to compete for the food -- there are far worse mites you could get!)

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Galapoheros (Jan 24, 2016)

I used to get problems when I worried about keeping things clean.  Now I have a Hisser colony over a decade old that I've only cleaned out once, and I regretted it.  There are 1000s of roaches in there.  If I see something with grain mites on it in another cage, I deliberately drop it in the Hisser cage.  There are isopods, leaves, pred mites, don't know what else is in there but the grain mites get wiped out.  Trying to keep things too sterile years ago was when I would get bigger mite problems.  This stuff lives around mushrooms, mold ...all kinds of fungi, isopods, etc.  It's been working over here anyway for many years.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Ellenantula (Jan 24, 2016)

I couldn't keep isopods alive -- had them in B lat enclosure maybe 6 months max.  It seemed that keeping things damp enough for isopods caused my egg cartons to mould so I had to keep replacing egg cartons whole time.   Guess I never figured out the right balance.  I bought them because I liked the idea of a self-sustaining/cleaning roach system.

Dunno what happened to the isopod remains either -- there were 100s of them and lots of young; then I would occasionally see a few, then none.  No mites or other parasites ever seen in roach enclosure,  so I assume the isopod remains decayed into unidentifiable organic matter on the bottom.  I sorta miss the isopods.


----------



## Hisserdude (Jan 24, 2016)

Ellenantula said:


> I couldn't keep isopods alive -- had them in B lat enclosure maybe 6 months max.  It seemed that keeping things damp enough for isopods caused my egg cartons to mould so I had to keep replacing egg cartons whole time.   Guess I never figured out the right balance.  I bought them because I liked the idea of a self-sustaining/cleaning roach system.
> 
> Dunno what happened to the isopod remains either -- there were 100s of them and lots of young; then I would occasionally see a few, then none.  No mites or other parasites ever seen in roach enclosure,  so I assume the isopod remains decayed into unidentifiable organic matter on the bottom.  I sorta miss the isopods.


Odd, maybe it just got too dry for them. Did they have plenty of dead leaves?


----------



## Hisserdude (Jan 24, 2016)

The Snark said:


> You do know grain mites are harmless to other animals, yes? They are just competitors for food sources.


Mites can indirectly harm roaches by stressing them out, they are constantly crawling over the roaches and the roaches are always trying to clean them off. This can stress them out to the point of dying and colonies with mites do much worse that colonies without them.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Ellenantula (Jan 24, 2016)

Hisserdude said:


> Odd, maybe it just got too dry for them. Did they have plenty of dead leaves?


Yup!  The seller included plenty -- in fact, the leaves outlasted the isopods, since I think the isopods preferred the roach poop. (I also added fish flakes and nutritional yeast for them -- but the roaches may have really eaten that stuff). 
My theory: dessication killed them.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Ellenantula (Jan 24, 2016)

Hisserdude said:


> Mites can indirectly harm roaches by stressing them out, they are constantly crawling over the roaches and the roaches are always trying to clean them off. This can stress them out to the point of dying and colonies with mites do much worse that colonies without them.


Yeah -- this was the case with my mealies -- esp the beetles where you could see moving grain mites on them and their wings got all damaged looking -- I had a LOT of beetle losses and mealworm losses during my grain mite infestation.


----------



## Hisserdude (Jan 24, 2016)

Ellenantula said:


> Yup!  The seller included plenty -- in fact, the leaves outlasted the isopods, since I think the isopods preferred the roach poop. (I also added fish flakes and nutritional yeast for them -- but the roaches may have really eaten that stuff).
> My theory: dessication killed them.


Yeah, must have been dessication. The lats like it dry, too dry for most isopods I imagine.



Ellenantula said:


> Yeah -- this was the case with my mealies -- esp the beetles where you could see moving grain mites on them and their wings got all damaged looking -- I had a LOT of beetle losses and mealworm losses during my grain mite infestation.


Sorry to hear that, I have been lucky and have yet to have the common grain mites. I have a ton of other species though, so I ain't that lucky!

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Ellenantula (Jan 24, 2016)

Final thought since I mentioned fish flakes.... that crap STINKS UP a B lat enclosure.  My roaches usually have extremely little smell -- not bad at all like crix enclosures can be.  I do NOT miss adding fish flakes for the isopods....  lol

(edited to add: be funny if I was misinformed re: fish flakes and never even needed them for the isopods - hehe)

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Hisserdude (Jan 24, 2016)

Ellenantula said:


> Final thought since I mentioned fish flakes.... that crap STINKS UP a B lat enclosure.  My roaches usually have extremely little smell -- not bad at all like crix enclosures can be.  I do NOT miss adding fish flakes for the isopods....  lol


Interesting, I have never used those for my isopods, and now I never will!


----------



## Ellenantula (Jan 24, 2016)

I still add fish flakes and nutritional yeast to my springtail colony -- but theirs is a closed system, so no smells.  I have never even used those springtails....  I guess at this point they are pets -- bought them in case of a mite infestation and then read they might not eradicate one anyway.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Hisserdude (Jan 24, 2016)

Huh, I am vegan so I have a ton of nutritional yeast, never thought of using it for my bugs! It depends on what species of springtail, some are really good at combating mites, others are better as tiny, but interesting pets.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Ellenantula (Jan 24, 2016)

Hisserdude said:


> Huh, I am vegan so I have a ton of nutritional yeast, never thought of using it for my bugs! It depends on what species of springtail, some are really good at combating mites, others are better as tiny, but interesting pets.


COOL re: being vegan.  I failed, so back to plain old vegetarianism.  It was the cheese and milk chocolate that broke me.  I am weak.  (sigh)

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Hisserdude (Jan 24, 2016)

Ellenantula said:


> COOL re: being vegan.  I failed, so back to plain old vegetarianism.  It was the cheese and milk chocolate that broke me.  I am weak.  (sigh)


It was the same with my mom, those were the two things she couldn't give up. Then she watched a documentary called "Earthlings", and she became a total vegan. There are some really good cheese replacements available nowadays, Daiya for example.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Galapoheros (Jan 24, 2016)

I stuck a wood burning stove in my fire place and cut my own wood so I have a lot of curled bark.  I use that instead of egg crates that do take on a smell pretty fast, you might not have easy access to things like that.  Something else you could use is broken pottery or cut cement board, aka hardiboard, hardiplank.  I use crates for crickets though, but I don’t need to, use your imagination.  That way you can keep the sub a little moist for isopods.


----------



## Ellenantula (Jan 24, 2016)

Yeah, I bet curled bark would work well.  I don't really have access to an easy/inexpensive wood supply here (just meaning it would probably be more trouble than it's worth for me to acquire).    
With the roaches, there is little odour, so as long as the egg crates don't get damp, they last a bit longer.


----------



## -=}GA']['OR{=- (Jan 26, 2016)

Order a culture of predatory mites. They will eradicate the pest mites quickly. Do a search for Stratiolaelaps scimitus formerly known as Hypoaspis miles. I have used them several times over the years with great effect.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Travis K (Jan 27, 2016)

The only time I had grain mites was when I was breeding meal worms so they will not eat them.  Keeping things dry and clean is the best preventative.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Hisserdude (Jan 27, 2016)

No darkling beetles that are in the hobby eat mites, *lesser *mealworms can merely out compete them for food, and thus can be good for keeping mite numbers down.


----------



## Dark (Jan 27, 2016)

Thank you all for the insights and information, I sincerely do appreciate it. I don't want to jinx myself but at the moment I SEEM to have the mite problem under control. I've been continuing the daily wiping of the cage walls with a Lysol wipe and keeping the lid off to dry it out. Right now the cage is bone dry and there are only a dozen or so mites visible if you peer around the cage. Initially there were thousands of them covering each wall entirely on both the inside and outside of the cage and walking around my desk, that is why I felt a dire need to completely eradicate them. 



-=}GA']['OR{=- said:


> Order a culture of predatory mites. They will eradicate the pest mites quickly. Do a search for Stratiolaelaps scimitus formerly known as Hypoaspis miles. I have used them several times over the years with great effect.


Are these mites pet safe? I keep 5 birds in my room. If the mites ONLY eat / attack gnats, mites and other irritants then these guys might be my key to a cleaner cage. My concern with buying more mites is having an infestation of them instead of the other ones. 

Eric

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## BobBarley (Jan 27, 2016)

Hey guys!

Never had a mite problem before, but I thought I'd contribute a bit.  Has anyone tried pseudoscorpions as a counter against mites?  Is it even worth it considering they probably aren't capable of the population growth of predatory mites?  Anyone tried it before?

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Hisserdude (Jan 28, 2016)

BobBarley said:


> Hey guys!
> 
> Never had a mite problem before, but I thought I'd contribute a bit.  Has anyone tried pseudoscorpions as a counter against mites?  Is it even worth it considering they probably aren't capable of the population growth of predatory mites?  Anyone tried it before?


I have heard of at least one person using these in his beetle cages, they work well to get rid of mites. Only problem is they are hard to locate in the hobby, and they require moist conditions.


----------



## Hisserdude (Jan 28, 2016)

Darkpredator said:


> Thank you all for the insights and information, I sincerely do appreciate it. I don't want to jinx myself but at the moment I SEEM to have the mite problem under control. I've been continuing the daily wiping of the cage walls with a Lysol wipe and keeping the lid off to dry it out. Right now the cage is bone dry and there are only a dozen or so mites visible if you peer around the cage. Initially there were thousands of them covering each wall entirely on both the inside and outside of the cage and walking around my desk, that is why I felt a dire need to completely eradicate them.
> 
> Are these mites pet safe? I keep 5 birds in my room. If the mites ONLY eat / attack gnats, mites and other irritants then these guys might be my key to a cleaner cage. My concern with buying more mites is having an infestation of them instead of the other ones.
> 
> Eric


Good to hear, hope you don't have a huge explosion again.

Predatory mite can stress out certain invertebrates, while others don't mind them at all. The only way to find out is to try yourself. Unfortunately, that can mean severely stressing out some of your invertebrates.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## BobBarley (Jan 28, 2016)

Hisserdude said:


> I have heard of at least one person using these in his beetle cages, they work well to get rid of mites. Only problem is they are hard to locate in the hobby, and they require moist conditions.


Ah I see.  I've only seen bugsincyberspace.com sell these occasionally.  The humidity may be a problem but I want to try breeding these as I've caught a few before.  I may try to use these if I ever get a mite problem.  Not that I'm hoping for one lol!


----------



## Hisserdude (Jan 28, 2016)

BobBarley said:


> Ah I see.  I've only seen bugsincyberspace.com sell these occasionally.  The humidity may be a problem but I want to try breeding these as I've caught a few before.  I may try to use these if I ever get a mite problem.  Not that I'm hoping for one lol!


Well if you don't have mites, you can always feed them springtails. I caught a few and tried keeping them, they all drowned in tiny water droplets within the first week.  Lesson learned, next time make sure there is no condensation on the walls of the enclosure!

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## BobBarley (Jan 28, 2016)

Hisserdude said:


> Well if you don't have mites, you can always feed them springtails. I caught a few and tried keeping them, they all drowned in tiny water droplets within the first week.  Lesson learned, next time make sure there is no condensation on the walls of the enclosure!


Thanks for the tip!


----------



## -=}GA']['OR{=- (Jan 28, 2016)

I'm not sure if they would effect the birds. I never had any issues with my inverts, they may or may not be irritated by the predatory mites presence. They do the job of eradication well, and when the food source runs out they die off.


----------

