# Latest Water Snake Pics



## pitbulllady (Jun 22, 2010)

This past weekend's Columbia, SC, Repticon show was a REALLY good show for _Nerodia_ and _Thamnophis_ afficianados, and it's about time, too.
For too long I've only been able to pick up the occasional Water Snake at shows, but there was a good selection of both long-term captive and recently-collected Water Snakes, representing several species, including some gorgeous little Gulf Salt Marsh Waters(_Nerodia clarkii compressicauda_). which a buddy of mine snagged(the two orange-phased adults were actually breeding in the container on his table, lol).  Those snakes have never been common, and their habitat is the very habitat that is currently being so horribly affected by the BP oil tragedy right now, so I would not be surprised to see this species added to the Endangered Species list in the near future.

Anyway, I did pick up several Water Snakes, young adults to outright "heifers", this weekend.  All of the females, with one exception(more on her in a moment), are already gravid, two of the normal Banded(_N. fasciata fasciata)_ females having been bred by the same male, a probable Super-Hypo(homozygous for dominant Hypomelanism trait).  One of those, unfortunately, was injured Saturday evening in a freak accident when the display case that the vendor's snakes were in overturned, and somehow she got thrown forward violently and her snout got slammed in the crack of the door to her particular enclosure when it hit the floor, slicing off the top of her snout down to the bone from her nostrils all the way back to her eyes.  The guy just gave her to me because he knew he couldn't sell her and he didn't want to put her down, so now I'm trying to treat her injury with Betadine soakings and triple antibiotics, poor thing.  She has not attempted to bite or musk, although I know what I have to do to her is horribly painful.  She is just a normal-colored Southern Banded, but if she doesn't lose her babies out of stress, at least some will be Hypos because it's a dominant trait in Bandeds.  She is one of three normal Bandeds I picked up.  The other one I got from the same vendor, which has been also bred to the Hypo male, has the most insatiable appetite I've ever seen in a snake; she actually grabbed and started swallowing my LCD flashlight I was using last night to check in on her, and today has eaten two f/t rat pups, one scented with fish, one not.  Gotta love a snake like that!  The largest of the three Banded girls, a freshly-caught female the size of an adult(and well-fed)Ball Python, has a ringed, clean scar all around her body, apparently having had a run-in with either a fishing line, or a net, or one of those plastic six-pack holders that some fisherman probably tossed in the water when his beer ran out.  It's healed now, thankfully.  She is the only Water Snake I have gotten to hang out around my neck; these snakes normally have no concept of heights, or gravity, or how to hold onto anything to keep from falling, but she'll chill like a Boa for as long as I let her, even though she IS heavy and it doesn't take long to get tired of carrying her!






BIG female normal Banded, showing close-up of scar that completely encircles her body

I also picked up a really big Northern female that also appears to be gravid, from a northern VA locale, but this poor girl has a .22 caliber bullet hole clean through her body, and I have no idea how much damage is inside.  The guy who caught her told me that she has eaten and pooped, but I don't know if he was being honest or just telling me that when I pointed out the entry and exit wounds, which he hadn't noticed.  He swore this was the "meanest" snake he'd ever caught(I wish I had a dime every time someone told me that about a Water Snake they'd caught; heck, a PENNY would do it), but I've yet to see any sign of aggression or defensive behavior on her part.  I wouldn't worry quite so much is she WAS a bit more feisty, but she is extremely placid, just like the rest, only getting "jumpy" if I touch her in the vicinity of the wounds. 






Big female Northern, the one with the gun-shot wound






Close-up of entry wound on dorsal side; exit wound is larger.  Still seems to be bone fragments around the wound here.

I got a couple of odd-colored Midland males, which are basically yellow and light orange, from an upstate SC locale.  I have no clue what to call this color; guess I need to ask some of the Corn Snake breeders to come up with some nifty, catchy "morph" names, since they seem pretty good at it!






One of two "yellow" Hypo? Xanthic? male Midland Waters

Finally, got two Waters that I'm not even sure WHAT they are.  One is a young adult female, who was sold as a "Hypo" Banded, but she looks nothing like any of the other Hypos I've ever seen or bred.  Dorsally, she looks like a Florida Green(_N. floridana)_, though her head pattern and scalation is all Banded.  She has a very faded belly pattern.  The other "Mystery" Water Snake is most likely a F1 cross between a Banded and a Red-Belly(_N. erythrogaster)_, and has this really pale, pearlesent belly that reminds me of the inside of a Conch shell, really strange.






Body of odd-looking female; looks more like a Green on top






Close-up of her head






Belly pic, with my snake-bitten wrist(courtesy of a Cal-King, NOT a Water Snake-you know, one of those "it doesn't bite" snakes)






Belly of possible F1 Banded x Red-Belly hybrid; this snake is NOT in shed.






Young adult male probable Super-Hypo Banded; will be proven once both(or at least one)of the two females he mated with gives birth.  There is absolutely no black on this snake whatsoever.

pitbulllady


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## moose35 (Jun 22, 2010)

those guys are neat
i always see red banded ones by the lakes here

thanks for the pics these guys are unappreciated


              moose


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## pitbulllady (Jun 22, 2010)

moose35 said:


> those guys are neat
> i always see red banded ones by the lakes here
> 
> thanks for the pics these guys are unappreciated
> ...


The ones you see in NJ would be typical Northerns(_N. sipedon sipedon)_.  The Northerns that are found futher south, where their nominate subspecies meets the Midland subspecies, are lighter, due to our milder winters, but there were some of the ones like you usually see in NJ at the show, too, more dark gray with reddish-brown markings.

And yes, these snakes are very underappreciated, even by a lot of snake enthusiasts.  As I was sorting through a big tub of Water Snakes, of all different sizes, I kept hearing people behind me telling me how crazy I was, how I must be a glutton for punishment, etc.  Not ONE so much as struck at me, and most were freshly-caught.  I look forward to the day when these are a captive-bred staple at shows and people don't go, "uhg, a WATER SNAKE", when they see them on display.

pitbulllady


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## loxoscelesfear (Jun 22, 2010)

I don't keep Nerodia but I do like to catch and release.  I live in the northern /midland intergrade zone but occasionally I will drive a couple hours south just to see diamondbacks and copperbellies.  Cool snakes, love em.


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## dtknow (Jun 22, 2010)

Midland=yellowcheek water.

You don't keep any mangroves yourself?

These are illegal in CA now but it'll be interesting to see what you can do to swing their popularity around.


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## pitbulllady (Jun 22, 2010)

dtknow said:


> Midland=yellowcheek water.
> 
> You don't keep any mangroves yourself?
> 
> These are illegal in CA now but it'll be interesting to see what you can do to swing their popularity around.


Most Midlands don't have those yellow cheeks.  I picked those out specifically because of that unusual coloration.  Most Midlands are a rather drab gray with black or dark brown markings.  It will be interesting to see whether or not that "high yellow" is genetic, or a fluke.

Yeah, I know that all _Nerodia_ are illegal in CA, unfortunately.  I can sorta see the point, given that they WOULD compete with the native Garter species for food, and that there are, or at least have been, some established small localized populations in the state of both Bandeds and Northerns.  Given the extreme UNpopularity of these snakes as pets and captives, I would be very hesitant to put the blame on the usual "pet owners releasing unwanted animals", which is pretty much the standard "boogie man" of the AR crowd everywhere nowadays.  The populations at least seem to be self-limiting and restricted to just certain bodies of water, fortunately.  In any case, I doubt that even national popularity of Water Snakes as pets will ever change the CA situation; look at how popular ferrets are, and with NO record of establishing feral breeding populations anywhere in North America, yet they remain illegal in CA.
Thank God I live in South Carolina; we might have plenty of redneck politicians but I'll take those over control-freak idiots any day, and at least I can still keep a darned Water Snake!

pitbulllady


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## dtknow (Jun 22, 2010)

Meant that to be a catchy name for that color.


I totally see the reasoning behind the ban as you do though.


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## Crysta (Jun 22, 2010)

dtknow said:


> Meant that to be a catchy name for that color.
> 
> 
> I totally see the reasoning behind the ban as you do though.


canarey yellow ?


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## pitbulllady (Jun 22, 2010)

Just a quick little update: the gun-shot Northern female DID eat a large toad today, so if she can keep it down and pass waste normally, that gives me much better hope for her making a full recovery, even if she does wind up losing her babies.  The yellow Midland, the Banded with the snout injury and the odd-looking pink-bellied possible hybrid are the only two which have not eaten either a scented rodent or a toad.  The one with the injured snout does not even want to look at prey items right now, poor girl.  I wish I could do something for her to make her more comfortable.

pitbulllady


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## J.huff23 (Jun 23, 2010)

Those are good looking snakes!


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## pitbulllady (Jun 23, 2010)

I DID get the female Banded with the injured snout to eat a toad this morning, so that's a good sign.  She still has a lot of swelling on the front part of her head, especially above and around her eyes, and there seems to be fluid collecting under her eyecaps.  She could be starting to go into a shed, which is common for injured snakes, but usually Water Snakes show signs of going into shed first on their belly scales, and I'm not seeing any cloudiness there, so I suspect that the fluid behind her eyecaps is due to the swelling and the injury.  You can see in this pic, taken this morning right after she ate the toad, how close she came to having her eyes injured.







What I really hate about this, aside from her being hurt, is that prior to this she was a flawless animal, no scars or nicks or rough spots and a fully-intact tail, all of which are rare to find in adult wild-raised Water Snakes.  These snakes seem to live a pretty rough existance compared even to other wild snakes, and you almost never find an adult that does  not bear noticeable scars somewhere from encounters with other animals, from people, from trash, etc.  A full tail on an adult Water Snake is a rarity, too, since most lose at least part of their tails in attacks by other predators(especially turtles)or from bad, incomplete sheds that restrict blood flow as the snake grows and the band of old skin doesn't.  I'd held this snake before the accident and could not find any blemishes on her and I commented to the guy who had her about that, how her only apparent "drawback" was just being a plain ole' regular Banded, not a Hypo or something unusual, even though she's bred to one.  Now, if she makes a full recovery, she will have a bad facial scar for life and will almost certainly always have issues with shedding her skin.

pitbulllady


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## Kaimetsu (Jun 23, 2010)

Watersnakes are awesome. Lake Minnewaska in New York is populated by literally hundreds of northern water snakes, i've never seen as many snakes in one place as this.  I was there the other day and a single log had 5 northern water snakes on it piled on top of each other sunning, i wish i had remembered my camera that day.  I'd like to attempt handling one but their ornery reputation makes me hesitate, pitbull lady do you have any advice but handling them safely?


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## pitbulllady (Jun 23, 2010)

Kaimetsu said:


> Watersnakes are awesome. Lake Minnewaska in New York is populated by literally hundreds of northern water snakes, i've never seen as many snakes in one place as this.  I was there the other day and a single log had 5 northern water snakes on it piled on top of each other sunning, i wish i had remembered my camera that day.  I'd like to attempt handling one but their ornery reputation makes me hesitate, pitbull lady do you have any advice but handling them safely?


From my own experience, that reputation is just that-a reputation, and we all know that not all reputations are deserved.  I have not found Water Snakes of ANY species to any worse about biting or musking than any other Colubrid snake, and in fact they're nowhere near as bad as some, including species which have a reputation(that word again)for being naturally calm and gentle, like Corns.  I just handle these as I would any other wild non-venomous snake.  If possible, I avoid grabbing the snake, especially from above, since that's how a predator attacks.  Lift the snake up from underneath instead, and don't try to grasp its body to restrain it if it tries to "run", but keep sliding your hands underneath the snake and use them to control its movement and direction.  The snake will soon figure out that you aren't going to eat it and stop trying to escape.  If it does bite, Water Snakes usually make a sideways strike, and 99% of those are pure bluff with no intentions of actually making contact.  It looks fierce, with that large mouth, but the snake is all show.  I've been tagged only 3 times in defensive bites;I don't count feeding responses from captive snakes, since these guys LOVE to eat, and when they are in "feeding mode, anything that moves is pretty much fair game.  Of those three snakes, each one only bit me once.  Once the snake realized that the biting wasn't accomplishing anything, and I wasn't going to hurt it, the biting stopped.  Their bites bleed a lot but really aren't painful at all, and the bleeding(actually due to a mild anticoagulant venom from their Duvernoy's glands-yes, these ARE rear-fanged snakes, along with their close relatives, the Garters)is probably a good thing, in that it flushes out bacteria.  These snakes calm down within just a few minutes of gentle handling, and the thing is, they just stay tame after that and don't revert back to biting, so they really don't require a lengthy period of taming like most wild-caught snakes do.  I had my hands inside a large tub of Midlands(a subspecies of Northerns)this past weekend, picking them up, petting them, touching their heads and faces, without being bitten, and these were all caught within the last week.  They just aren't aggressive snakes at all.  Garters are WAY more prone to biting, and biting repeatedly, and holding on and chewing, yet most herpers won't hesitate to pick up a wild Garter.  Many of those same people are scared half to death of picking up a Water Snake.

Of course, the real trick is to get close enough to pick one up in the first place, and they are FAST when it comes to sliding into the water!  Most of the ones that are caught are found underneath old pieces of wood, tin, etc., near water, or dipped up in large nets.  It's really, really hard to sneak up on one that is basking on a log or something in the water without the snake disappearing.

pitbulllady


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## ZephAmp (Jun 23, 2010)

I've gotta say, they're very tame snakes once they know you're not a predator.
When I go after them in the wild they're the most vicious snake you could ever meet.


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## pitbulllady (Jun 24, 2010)

ZephAmp said:


> I've gotta say, they're very tame snakes once they know you're not a predator.
> When I go after them in the wild they're the most vicious snake you could ever meet.


I've caught many in the wild, and like I said, I've only been bitten three times.  I've been bitten WAY more times than that by ONE Corn Snake that I caught at school back in May.  He STILL bites, as a matter of fact, although if you ask most people which they'd rather catch, a Corn Snake or a Water Snake, they'll go with the Corn.  I will stack this guy up against any Amazon Tree Boa or Black Racer on the planet when it comes to biting!  I've never seen a Water Snake that even comes close.  I got nailed at the show this weekend by a California King, captive-bred, but not by the Water Snakes.  I usually manage to get bitten by at least one Ball Python, but I guess I got lucky this time around.  Black Racers are much worse than Water Snakes and so are most Garters, when it comes to biting, and Garters love to hang on and really chew those rear fangs into you.  Water Snakes put on more of a "show", but for most, that's all there is to it.  I've never seen any wild snakes that will tame down as quickly as they do.  The only one I have who does sometimes still get "uppity" is my huge Yellow-Belly female, but she's sort of a bully with her cage mates(two Red-Bellies), too.  If she was a dog I'd definitely call her an "Alpha you-know-what", lol.  She's big and she seems to know it and likes to throw her weight around once in awhile, whether with me or another snake.  I just have learned how to deal with her, just like having to deal with my cage-aggressive Ball Python.  Any of the other Water Snakes are like big floppy stuffed toys when you pick them up, and the Yellow-Belly is too, 90% of the time.  She just wants to stiffen up when I have to put her in a bag to clean her cage, or when I have to take her out of her water bowl while she's soaking(she's the only one who actually does that, too), or have to pull a stuck eye cap or something.  The others are just ridiculously tame and laid-back, even the new ones.  I had about six assorted Bandeds and Northerns sitting on my bed earlier today while I cleaned their cages; I just put them there and they sat and "chilled", right next to the cat, who is so used to snakes he doesn't pay them any mind at all.  They might as well be books or something.  When I got through bagging up soiled newspaper and cleaning water bowls and putting in fresh paper, I just picked the snakes up and put them back in their enclosures.  That's just how mellow they are.  My Boas are the only other snakes I can do that with, and my JCP.  Any of the others would at least be moving off to explore.

pitbulllady


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## Shrike (Jun 26, 2010)

The super hypo looks amazing.  You've sure got a way with the water snakes.  I've never kept any in captivity.  They tame down well?


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## pitbulllady (Jun 26, 2010)

mking said:


> The super hypo looks amazing.  You've sure got a way with the water snakes.  I've never kept any in captivity.  They tame down well?


They tame down EXTREMELY well, and tame down very fast, within minutes.  Most of the ones I've caught or gotten from someone else who just caught it have never attempted to bite, actually.  I just got one yesterday from a friend of mine down in Socastee(near Myrtle Beach)who caught it just a few days ago and had been keeping it in a five-gallon bucket until he got in touch with me.  The snake had not been handled other than when he caught it and put it in the bucket after being called out to one of the camp grounds to remove it(he does snake and alligator removal for the campgrounds and golf courses down there), so you can't say it had been tamed.  I've held her(it's a gravid female, of course), had her up in my face with no biting, head-flattening or musking.  I'm not even sure WHAT kind of Water Snake she is, actually.  She LOOKS like a FL Green(_(N. floridana)_ all over except for her head, which is a Banded head!  She might be an intergrade, but I've never known those two species to interbreed, and we aren't supposed to have Greens this far up the coast.  She's going into a shed now, so her colors and pattern(no belly pattern, until you get to the vent area, by the way, NOT a Banded characteristic)aren't as clear, but once she sheds I'm going to have to get some pics of her to send to Dr. Whit Gibbons and see if he can solve her identity crisis. I'll probably send him the shed skin as well, since those are a perfect source of DNA without hurting the snake.  She could just be a very aberrant anerythristic Banded, or some type of intergrade or hybrid, but she's definitely odd.

pitbulllady


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