# Effectiveness of scorpions' venom



## 2nscorpx (Sep 18, 2012)

Venom in scorpions was developed primarily to subdue prey; the use of venom as a defense was secondary. I was just wondering, though, if anyone knows of records of the effectiveness of scorpions' venom against a predator, whether it is species-specific or for a genus, family, or just in general. I know there are probably variables in the scorpion's environs, such as the type of predators, locality differences of the same species, how much is injected, the toxicity of a specimen within a species, etc. I was interested because scorpions have adapted and diversified for hundreds of millions of years, yet they have adapted relatively slowly. Anyone have any ideas?


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## ShredderEmp (Sep 18, 2012)

In the deserts in Africa, scorpions like the A. australis, A. bicolor, and others have to face Meerkats, which have developed an amazing hunting strategy, which is overloading the sensory hairs and brain to a point they basically freeze the scorpion in its tracks. This also is present with the LQ's as hedgehogs in the Mideast have developed an immunity to the venom. This might be why the ones in some deserts are more dangerous than one in other deserts, forests, etc.

Scorpions have fought back though, as stated, venom potency, but also there is a species that can squirt is venom, which upon eye contact, can blind meerkats. This species of which i do not know the name, has adapted to use the hunting style of the meerkat to its advantage, and can time and aim its shot based on the location of the most intensity. 

Hopes this helps, and I;d like to know more too if anyone has corrections or info.


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## 2nscorpx (Sep 18, 2012)

Thanks...the species that you're referring to is P. transvaalicus. A few other Parabuthus spp. can spray their venom as well; I know P. villosus can and P. raudus is able to if extremely provoked (Leeming, 2003).


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## ShredderEmp (Sep 18, 2012)

The one on the show I was watching was all black, with a pretty fat tail, I know that the narrator used the common name which isn't all that useful, but I believe P. transvaalicus is the one they were talking about. However, the other ones you mentioned, well, you 2 upped me!


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## VictorHernandez (Sep 18, 2012)

As far as I know, there are 2 kinds of scorpion's venom: kind for killing invertebrates, and kind for killing vertebrates. Some species, such as the ones from the androctonus genus, have the kind that is specially designed for killing vertebrates. Since it's prey is consisted mainly of invertebrates, its venom is thought to have evolved primarily as defense.  There are some scorpions that are very venomous, but inject less amounts than one with slightly less potent venom, but some with less potent venom, can inject great amounts of it. It really depends on the genus and/or species. Scorpions can control the amount of venom released: greater amounts for larger creatures, less for smaller. Androctonus venom has been equaled to cobra venom, and can inject lots of it. Androctonus's venom is not as potent as Leiurus quinquestriatus's.


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## rd_07 (Sep 26, 2012)

3 kinds: to subdue prey, to defend from predators and dry sting to threat(or sometimes used just to push others when not in mood)

---------- Post added 09-26-2012 at 01:43 PM ----------

for me i'd make the LD50 as reference as it is hard to make my own experiment since lab-rats are my only test subjects



2nscorpx said:


> Venom in scorpions was developed primarily to subdue prey; the use of venom as a defense was secondary. I was just wondering, though, if anyone knows of records of the effectiveness of scorpions' venom against a predator, whether it is species-specific or for a genus, family, or just in general. I know there are probably variables in the scorpion's environs, such as the type of predators, locality differences of the same species, how much is injected, the toxicity of a specimen within a species, etc. I was interested because scorpions have adapted and diversified for hundreds of millions of years, yet they have adapted relatively slowly. Anyone have any ideas?


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## 2nscorpx (Sep 26, 2012)

But if it's a dry sting the scorpion does not even inject venom...this is the definition of a dry sting!


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## rd_07 (Sep 26, 2012)

right. like the colors red green blue and black which isnt technically a color but the combination of all colors or some pigments.(wth am i saying is this the effect of 24hrs no sleep?)
back to the topic, its just the same venom to that specific species however the "effectiveness of scorpions' venom" or "the toxicity of a specimen within a species"
it is just the same it just varies to how much that species wants to give IMO



2nscorpx said:


> But if it's a dry sting the scorpion does not even inject venom...this is the definition of a dry sting!


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## 2nscorpx (Sep 26, 2012)

I see. I was asking the question without variables such as the amount of venom injected, etc.


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## KDiiX (Sep 30, 2012)

VictorHernandez said:


> [...] Androctonus's venom is not as potent as Leiurus quinquestriatus's.


Just if you compare the LD50 value. How potent a venom is can not be described by LD50. LD50 compare different venoms in the effectivness of the venom to a mouse. But then the question is if this really is a indicator for the potency of a venom. 

I think the variety on the potency of scorpion venom is partly dictated by the environment they life in. For example the most venomous species life in deserts. In deserts the food supply is much less then in tropical climate. For this a scorpion can't afford that prey escapes after a sting so the venom is highly deadly on the prey item.
Btw I noticed that smeringurus mesaensis venom kills crickets more effective then A.australis. But A.australis kills B.dubia much quicker then mesaensis.


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