# Chinese mystery snails



## jreidsma (Sep 18, 2012)

Hi everyone 

I was at the local wetland a while back and found a bunch of HUGE snails! I couldn't help but take five of the biggest home  They are kind of invasive anyways so no harm done.

They are doing well so far  Infact I have atleast 12+ babies running around  These are live birth snails, so they only have a couple apiece at first. I was thinking that after a generation or two I could start putting them in with my fish tanks. 

When, if at all, would it be safe to put them in with the fish or anything else? I don't know if snails carry disease/parasites that spread through the water that would stay with the snails after a generation or so with fresh water all the time.


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## Tarac (Sep 19, 2012)

Depends on the snail, do you know what they are for certain?

I would be more worried about parasites and other pathogens that snails can transmit to you.  Be sure to wash thoroughly after handling.

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## The Snark (Sep 19, 2012)

Tarac said:


> Depends on the snail, do you know what they are for certain?
> 
> I would be more worried about parasites and other pathogens that snails can transmit to you.  Be sure to wash thoroughly after handling.


 I'll double down on that comment. Invasive snails, if that is what you have, are one of the worlds leading disease transmitters right now. Watch your step.

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## jreidsma (Sep 19, 2012)

Hmm... I don't think I want them now  :sarcasm: I might get rid of them somehow.

I know that snails can transmit parasites, but now it is starting to worry me a bit.

More room for T's! :sarcasm: :laugh:


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## Tarac (Sep 21, 2012)

There are a lot of really cool snails, but not being as keen on them as I am other inverts I generally don't endorse keeping them until you certain you know what they are due to the potential vector issue- there really are a lot of nasty things you can catch from some snails.  Better to check with someone who has more background in molluscs if you intend to keep them IMO.  I didn't see anything other than invasive warnings about the Bellamya chinensis (if that's it) here but in its native habitat it definitely carries a lot of parasites.


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## jreidsma (Sep 21, 2012)

I don't know if this would work or not, but what if I put in some fish tank medication that is copper free and for internal parasites? I have prazipro for my pufferfish and I think it is copper free.
That may kill off any parasites but what about diseases?

I may just be better off getting rid of them, but I had a idea 


I agree with you, snails can be pretty cool, and they will always have a special place in my heart


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## Dan Wulf (Sep 21, 2012)

@Tarec and Snark,

It is correct that certain species of freshwater snails are potential intermediate hosts for e.g. schistosomes (Schistosoma sp.). But these species are rarely available. Furthermore, the parasite in one snail cannot directly infect another snail. Schistosomes need the final host (man) for the sexual reproduction. And the final host needs to excrete urine or faeces (depending on schistosome species) in the tank in order to complete the parasite life cycle. 

Beside schistosomiasis did you consider other parasitic infections or snail transmitted pathogens?


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## The Snark (Sep 22, 2012)

To quote the ol' textbook, fascioliasis, schistosomiasis, clonorchiasis, opisthorchiasis, angiostrongylosis.
I wouldn't downplay Schistosomiasis. The worlds #2 devastating infection behind Malaria. It spreads much more easily than most people think and it is prevalent in all countries below the subartic level.


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## Galapoheros (Sep 22, 2012)

Do you really live in Michigan?  Why do you call it "Chinese"?, because of a trap door on the snail?  If you're in the US, I think the odds are that it's OK but do more research, aquatic snails are sold in US pet stores all the time and many times they don't even know what species they have there.  Think of the last reported case of an aquatic snail disease that put several people in the hospital here in the US just from picking them up.  I've picked up 1000s from ponds and creeks.  People swim/tube in rivers and lakes with millions of snails there.  Go to aquatic snail sites/aquarium sites and especially research there and also use some of your own common sense after you read what you do.  Also, it would be nice to see a pic of the snails you have, people want to know the species.  All diseases Snark listed are pretty rare in the US, the US doesn't have the same raw diet as many other countries do.  Research each one of the diseases Snark listed, "cases in the US" and way the risk for yourself.  Again, I'd especially ask these questions at an aquarium site, or a snail hobbyist site.


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## The Snark (Sep 22, 2012)

And of course other dangers snails present. A guy down the road from us trying to get his motorcycle past where there were dredging water hyacinth and heaping it on the bank. Ran right into a big patch of snails. Zoom. Both him and the bike went into the river. Try explaining that one to your wife: It was snails, dear! Snails!! ::

I get the feeling Schistosomiasis is pretty common around here. None of the locals will touch the snails and kick them away with their feet when encountered. Even the kids avoid them. Cultural thing dating back centuries of avoiding commonly suspected disease carriers.


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## Galapoheros (Sep 22, 2012)

Ha, life is so abundant in the tropics, it all seems "less of" and smaller here north of Mexico with some exceptions.  I think the biggest wild aquatic snails found here in Texas are in the San Marcos river, a non-native horn snail.  I used to put them in aquariums when I lived there.


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## The Snark (Sep 22, 2012)

My dad was gardener of 5 acres in So. Cal. His main pastime seemed to be stomping snails. My friends and I helped. We had snail splat against the garage wall contests, snail fights, invented a snail catapult, modified a slingshot to snail zap passing cars, dropped snails off the roof of a 3 story building for, usually, non malicious reasons, and even collected them on occasion for a friend of my dad who ate them. I'm sort of glad they weren't the 1/8th pound truckers found in Thailand. We would all have done time for various snail related mayhem.


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## Dan Wulf (Sep 22, 2012)

The Snark said:


> I get the feeling Schistosomiasis is pretty common around here. None of the locals will touch the snails and kick them away with their feet when encountered. Even the kids avoid them. Cultural thing dating back centuries of avoiding commonly suspected disease carriers.


Several countries - specifically in Asia - are now free of human schisto. And the distribution of schisto in Thailand is not what it used to be:

"THAILAND
Infection with S. mekongi is limited to two areas: The first is present in the region of Chongmek (near the confluence of the Mae Nam Mun and the Mekong rivers) in Ubon province on the border with Laos; the second is present in the southern province of Nakhon Si Thammarat in towns located in the cantons of Chawang, Chang Klang, and Toong Song."

Source (2012): http://www.iamat.org/pdf/World_Schistosomiasis_Risk_Chart.pdf

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## Dan Wulf (Sep 22, 2012)

I assume that species described as "mystery snails" all belong to the family Ampullariidae - also called apple snails. 

As fast search revealed that only one human parasite may use these snails as intermediate hosts - and that's Angiostrongylus cantonensis or lung worm. The natural final host for lung worm is a rat. However, the parasite can infect humans if the snail is eaten raw. If I have overlooked other parasite infections please correct me.  

I think we can conclude that the risk of a parasite infection when keeping mystery snails / apple snails is close to zero.


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## Galapoheros (Sep 22, 2012)

The Snark said:


> My dad was gardener of 5 acres in So. Cal. His main pastime seemed to be stomping snails. My friends and I helped. We had snail splat against the garage wall contests, snail fights, invented a snail catapult, modified a slingshot to snail zap passing cars, dropped snails off the roof of a 3 story building for, usually, non malicious reasons, and even collected them on occasion for a friend of my dad who ate them. I'm sort of glad they weren't the 1/8th pound truckers found in Thailand. We would all have done time for various snail related mayhem.


You better go to the doctor!, you picked up way too many haha!  Your snail fights, it sounds like that's the sps that are edible in the US, Helix?  lol, "snail fights" that wouldn't be a good bug vid, even though I don't like those anyway.


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## jreidsma (Sep 22, 2012)

Here are the snails, taken a couple days after I got them:
[YOUTUBE]1i4f_hgZw6o[/YOUTUBE]

I am not as worried about parasites as I am diseases other than them. Like it has been said above, most parasites that would host in a snail, need to get into a mammal through being eaten or something like. I wash my hands right after doing anything with any animal, even feeding. So its not like I will be eating them :sarcasm: 

I think these are chinese mystery snails, the shells and head look more close to mine than the general mystery snail sold in pet stores. And these are reproducing through live birth so I know they aren't the ones from the store, as they have eggs.

I may be better off going to the pet store and buying some snails to start a breeding project  Then I know they should be safe to put in with my fish. Or just not have snails and use the room for more T's 

I will go on the aquarium forum I am a member of and see what they think. Maybe treating them with meds will make them safe.


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## The Snark (Sep 22, 2012)

Dan Wulf said:


> Several countries - specifically in Asia - are now free of human schisto. And the distribution of schisto in Thailand is not what it used to be:
> 
> "THAILAND
> Infection with S. mekongi is limited to two areas: The first is present in the region of Chongmek (near the confluence of the Mae Nam Mun and the Mekong rivers) in Ubon province on the border with Laos; the second is present in the southern province of Nakhon Si Thammarat in towns located in the cantons of Chawang, Chang Klang, and Toong Song."
> ...


Thanks much for the up to date info. WHO is always so darned slow. I'm seeing one glaring flaw or anomaly. The Mekhong region is quite understandable and predictable, but how did that version of parasite make the trip of around 300 miles across the Bay of Thailand. Migratory bird transmission?


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## Dan Wulf (Sep 22, 2012)

The Snark said:


> Thanks much for the up to date info. WHO is always so darned slow. I'm seeing one glaring flaw or anomaly. The Mekhong region is quite understandable and predictable, but how did that version of parasite make the trip of around 300 miles across the Bay of Thailand. Migratory bird transmission?


Hi Snark,
Good question! If we assume that the intermediate mollusc host - Tricula aperta (?) - is found in both areas, all you need are some infected human migrants from the Mekong area (or from neighboring endemic countries) who will deposit some faecal matter in the habitat of the previously uninfected population of T. aperta. No birds needed! ;-)

The alternative model will depend on e.g. birds, cars, seedlings or agricultural machines introducing infected or uninfected molluscs. In the latter case you still need infected human migrants to complete the puzzle. 

BTW - where do you live? Every 2nd year or so I visit Khon Kaen University, Isaan for work.


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## Tarac (Sep 24, 2012)

Is Schisto the only thing to worry about?  We have had other exotic snails bring other exotic pathogens with them before, and not all have strict species-specific host cycles.  Just curious.  I'm not a mollusk enthusiast except when properly prepared and put on my dinner plate


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## Elytra and Antenna (Sep 24, 2012)

Viviparis malleatus are usually called Japanese live bearing snails and chances of you getting a disease from them in MI are less than catching something from your cat.

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## jreidsma (Sep 24, 2012)

I think they are Viviparis malleatus then, I was close 

I got a answer on fish channel, they said that to get these snails safe for being put in with fish and stuff (assuming they have something that could transmit to different species) would be a minimum of 7-12 months isolation. So I am just going to get rid of them.

I cleaned out their tank and pretty well and moved my clams over into it  Now my clams have more room and a bigger filter.


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## Louise E. Rothstein (Sep 26, 2012)

Nobody ever found out whether the "suspected" snails were infected with anything.

Discarded on suspicion:

Phooey.


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## jreidsma (Sep 26, 2012)

I didn't kill them or anything  

I don't think there is a way to find out if said snail is infected with anything. As you can't see it.


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## Tarac (Sep 27, 2012)

jreidsma said:


> I don't think there is a way to find out if said snail is infected with anything. As you can't see it.


You can always eat them and find out 

---------- Post added 09-27-2012 at 08:47 AM ----------




Elytra and Antenna said:


> Viviparis malleatus are usually called Japanese live bearing snails and chances of you getting a disease from them in MI are less than catching something from your cat.


Might be true, I don't know the statistics of cat-borne illness in Michigan, but you can catch stuff from snails there:

http://www.michigan.gov/deq/0,4561,7-135-3313_3681_3710-134668--,00.html

http://www.hope.edu/academic/biology/faculty/blankespoor/faq.html

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## jreidsma (Sep 27, 2012)

:laugh: lol

When we went to Red Lobster (the restaurant) I was thinking about that when we got there... Made me want to throw up lol.


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## Tarac (Sep 27, 2012)

Aww, escargot is delicious actually.  Not "fishy" tasting in the least, more like a shitake mushroom.  Plus they always prepare it in sizzling garlic butter.  What isn't good in sizzling garlic butter?

Probably would use the nice cultured snails that are disease free for certain if you wanna go there.  You can use canned snails with just as much success, they're even a little softer out of a can (and I rarely eat anything from a can, usually not better than the fresh version).  Then you make the garlic butter and add some finely minced parsley, stuff a *sterilized* shell with some butter and a canned snail and broil til they're sizzling.  Yummy!

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## jreidsma (Sep 27, 2012)

I agree with you on the garlic  Garlic is good on anything  

I just don't eat much meat, I like chicken, but other than that I don't eat meat. It just bothers me for some reason. Especially something I keep as pets :sarcasm:  I would just be thinking of my snails at home the whole time.


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## Tarac (Sep 27, 2012)

I can appreciate that.  I would find difficult to knowingly eat a dog or one of those fried tarantulas some populations eat in SE Asia, although I keep pet fish and think they are quite tasty too.  Not my pets of course, but their cousins

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## jreidsma (Sep 27, 2012)

I keep fish to  I have some endlers livebearers, figure eight pufferfish, bee gobies, guppies, cory catfish, and two armored catfish  I am kind of losing interest in them though because of the water changes 

I cannot stand the thought of eating a tarantula or any other invertebrate like them. But then we probably eat some things here that others see as disturbing also


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## Tarac (Sep 27, 2012)

Yes, try explaining the great American cheeseburger to most of India.

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## jreidsma (Sep 27, 2012)

That would be... interesting  

snailburger... lol


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## Dan Wulf (Sep 27, 2012)

Tarac said:


> You can always eat them and find out
> 
> ---------- Post added 09-27-2012 at 08:47 AM ----------
> 
> ...


Yes - but please notice that schistosomes - including those causing "swimmer's itch" - are highly specific when it comes to choice of intermediate snail host species. They cannot do with just any (invasive?) snail species.


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## Tarac (Sep 28, 2012)

Sure, but it isn't known whether or not Cipangopaludina chinensis is a host or not.  It is even believed to be a host for swimmer's itch, it just hasn't been documented yet.  However outbreaks and spread have been correlated with the spread and population bloom of the snail.  Just because it hasn't been studied doesn't mean that it isn't a potential vector warranting very cautious handling.  It is known that it hosts a number of our other native flukes, demonstrating that parasite specificity doesn't necessarily preclude the snail as a potential host simply due to different geographic origins.  Moreover, C. chinensis is known to host Angiostrongylus cantonensis which has been found in the US, albeit rarely.

www.dep.state.fl.us/lands/invaspec/2ndlevpgs/pdfs/USGSreport.pdf

It is already hosting several pathogens that effect our amphibian populations and fish so for aquarium use I would definitely advise at least a good long quarantine period.


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## Dan Wulf (Sep 29, 2012)

Hi Tarac,

I did mention the possibility of infections with Angiostrongylus cantonensis (lung worm) in #14. But again - the aquarist needs to eat the snail raw in order to complete the parasite life cycle. 

Thanks for the information regarding the potential risk of swimmers itch and pathogens/parasites of relevance for fish and other vertebrates.


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