# Zilla Post-Mortum X-rays



## robc (Jul 23, 2010)

Here are the X-rays we had taken using the digital X-ray machine at my wife's work (she's a Chiropractic Assistant). The dark white areas show density.


It looks almost like you can see her new exo formed underneath and it looks like the fluid was between the two exos. Christian's theory (on ATS) was that she may have suffered a fall and ruptured her new exo and bleed slowly in between the two. That's just a theory but I think he may be on to something.

I'm putting links in to the pictures on my photobucket - these will be full size (couldn't post the large ones here) in case anyone wants to zoom in to study them.

*Smaller pics:*



















*Full size pic links:*

http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww339/robc1976/Female T blondi Zilla/Zilla2.jpg

http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww339/robc1976/Female T blondi Zilla/Zilla1.jpg


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## Moltar (Jul 23, 2010)

Well I think this may be a first. X-rayed tarantulas outside the realm of scientific research. Interesting...

I suppose it must be nice to at least have a better idea of what happened. Knowing what you know now, would you have done anything differently? I'm guessing surgery would have gone badly if there was a rupture in the new exo.


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## robc (Jul 23, 2010)

Moltar said:


> Well I think this may be a first. X-rayed tarantulas outside the realm of scientific research. Interesting...
> 
> I suppose it must be nice to at least have a better idea of what happened. Knowing what you know now, would you have done anything differently? I'm guessing surgery would have gone badly if there was a rupture in the new exo.


It's hard to say...if it was a rupture on her new exo and the old exo was keeping it in, then maybe the pressure was too great on her new exo and internal organs. Thinking along those lines, she may have been able to molt if I would have drained the fluid. But I'll never know if waiting was the right decision or not....I do wish I could have gotten X-rays of her before so I would have seen how much fluid there was and it's location. Hindsight being what it is, I now wish I had attempted to drain it.


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## Miss Bianca (Jul 23, 2010)

Thanks for posting these Rob. Very interesting.
We're all going to miss seeing Zilla. 
Lucky you have so much footage of when she was with us


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## Moltar (Jul 23, 2010)

You did the best you could and more importantly, you documented it for the rest of us to learn from, so thank you for that. I'm of the opinion that she would have bled out if you'd lanced the cyst. It was most likely a lose-lose situation and you tried your best. But ohhh hindsight... she is such a fickle mistress.


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## robc (Jul 23, 2010)

Moltar said:


> You did the best you could and more importantly, you documented it for the rest of us to learn from, so thank you for that. I'm of the opinion that she would have bled out if you'd lanced the cyst. It was most likely a lose-lose situation and you tried your best. But ohhh hindsight... she is such a fickle mistress.


I totally agree!


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## MichiganReptiles (Jul 23, 2010)

I agree with Ethan. And to add to that, it sucks either way, but had you tried to drain it and she still passed you would have blamed yourself and wondered what if she had been able to molt out of this situation.


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## TarantulaDude (Jul 23, 2010)

Looks like she fell? Shocking. I ain't tryin to be a troll or harsh I'm just sayin maybe we can learn from this and promote proper handling


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## B8709 (Jul 23, 2010)

Tarantuladude, quit replying to Rob's threads. He's a fine tarantula keeper.

Very interesting photos, by the way.


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## mcluskyisms (Jul 23, 2010)

TarantulaDude said:


> Looks like she fell? Shocking. I ain't tryin to be a troll or harsh I'm just sayin maybe we can learn from this and promote proper handling


Your spoiling this informative material looking for the OP to bite, grow up.

If you have nothing constructive to say don't say anything.....

:?


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## robc (Jul 23, 2010)

TarantulaDude said:


> Looks like she fell? Shocking. I ain't tryin to be a troll or harsh I'm just sayin maybe we can learn from this and promote proper handling


You're not trying to be a troll? Really? By going from board to board posting crap like this? Sounds like a troll to me (seeing how you have two posts - both in my threads. I call TROLL!!). 
Let's get some facts straight: I don't normally handle or hold my T's. If/when I do, it's always - repeat: ALWAYS - on the ground so no falls can happen. 
Another fact: no one has any idea what happened to Zilla. Are you an expert? I'd enjoy reading through your no-doubt impressive resume.
Yet another fact: I've never had a tarantula take a fall and die. Never. Nope, not once. Zilla did get caught up at the top of her cage once and when I opened the lid, she bolted and fell to the floor. She did have a slight minor injury but molted 2x after that and was completely healthy up until she developed this cyst or whatever it is.
I'd appreciate it now if you'd kindly leave this thread and stop posting ignorant comments. I lost a dear pet yesterday and I don't need trolls in a thread about the incident. You're just looking for attention. Well, this is the only attention you'll get from me. I won't respond again but if you continue, I will report every post.

Thank you and good day.


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## Scoolman (Jul 23, 2010)

I am sorry for your loss Rob. I am going to download your Xray pics for use in the classroom, Zilla's memory will live on in the minds of 1000's of students for years to come. Thank you for the very informaitve updates on this matter. Every piece of information brings us closer to understanding our hairy eight legged friends.


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## xhexdx (Jul 23, 2010)

I'd be interested to compare these to X-rays of a healthy blondi.

EDIT:  Without comparison pictures, these are useless.

No offense, Rob.  I think they're very intriguing to look at, but they really aren't telling us anything useful.

Scoolman...there's really nothing informative here.  Maybe reconsider the reasoning of showing these X-rays to students other than to show them what an X-ray of a spider looks like.


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## Link (Jul 23, 2010)

robc said:


> Here are the X-rays we had taken using the digital X-ray machine at my wife's work (she's a Chiropractic Assistant). The dark white areas show density.
> 
> 
> It looks almost like you can see her new exo formed underneath and it looks like the fluid was between the two exos. Christian's theory (on ATS) was that she may have suffered a fall and ruptured her new exo and bleed slowly in between the two. That's just a theory but I think he may be on to something.
> ...


Rob,

I'm very sorry for your loss.  This must be very disheartening to you as a tarantula keeper.  It sucks when you lose a friend. 

I have to say, though, that these x rays are amazing.  I'm actually in school right now to be a Chiropractor, and I'm learning quite a bit about x ray right now.  They must have turned the power down quite a bit to be able to see the spider.  If it was at the power they use to take pictures of us endoskeletal animals, it would have been a totally black photo.  Tell your wife that whoever took this picture knows what they are doing. 

If you really had the connections, and knew a medical doctor, you could get an MRI done, but that's too expensive if you don't know anyone who can do it for free (probably near impossible).  MRI has much better soft tissue contrast than x ray (something I coincidentally learned just the other day in class) and is used for the specific diagnosis of soft tissue lesions.  X ray is only good for structural images of dense objects (like bones), and right now just the exoskeleton in Zilla's case.  On x ray, soft tissue contrast is lousy, and it is only used in a few instances to find soft tissue deformities (i.e. Mammogram, and even recently the efficacy of that has been called into question).  What Joe here is saying is true, although rather harsh in my opinion

You would really be able to see what happened inside there on MRI if she hasn't dehydrated, and you've been keeping her chilled so she doesn't go bad inside if you ever decide perform such a cool experiment.  I'm just not sure you would want to take the trouble to find out.

Aaron


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## robc (Jul 23, 2010)

xhexdx said:


> I'd be interested to compare these to X-rays of a healthy blondi.
> 
> EDIT:  Without comparison pictures, these are useless.
> 
> ...


I agree, IU posted them just to see if anyone would want to examine them, but you would need a cross reference....if I didn't think the radiation would kill a T...I would take my other female blondi to get X-rayed.


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## bdprice1968 (Jul 23, 2010)

So sorry Rob for your loss.


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## Scoolman (Jul 23, 2010)

xhexdx said:


> I'd be interested to compare these to X-rays of a healthy blondi.
> 
> EDIT:  Without comparison pictures, these are useless.
> 
> ...


I did not plan to use them for diagnostic purposes. Simply showing an X-ray of something that they might not ever see was sufficient reason enough to want to use them. How often does one come across an X-ray of an arachnid?
I am fully aware that we would need other images to cross reference in order to get an idea of what "normal" looked like.


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## Talkenlate04 (Jul 23, 2010)

> Well I think this may be a first. X-rayed tarantulas outside the realm of scientific research. Interesting...


Definitely not. I and several others I know have done it before on both live and dead tarantulas. Still cool pictures though. I have always wanted to do an x-ray while a T is molting.


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## mcluskyisms (Jul 23, 2010)

Talkenlate04 said:


> Definitely not. I and several others I know have done it before on both live and dead tarantulas. Still cool pictures though. I have always wanted to do an x-ray while a T is molting.


Excellent Idea.....


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## Jon3800 (Jul 23, 2010)

I'm so sorry Rob, we're gonna miss Zilla but cherish the many memories of her


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## robc (Jul 23, 2010)

Talkenlate04 said:


> Definitely not. I and several others I know have done it before on both live and dead tarantulas. Still cool pictures though. I have always wanted to do an x-ray while a T is molting.


Does the radiation affect them at all? If not, I'd like to take my other adult female T.blondi (probably Burgundy actually, but then so was Zilla) up and get her x-rayed.....just to be able to compare results.



bdprice1968 said:


> So sorry Rob for your loss.


Thank you! I really appreciate that.



Jon3800 said:


> I'm so sorry Rob, we're gonna miss Zilla but cherish the many memories of her


Thanks, Jon....much appreciated!!


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## Talkenlate04 (Jul 24, 2010)

robc said:


> Does the radiation affect them at all? If not, I'd like to take my other adult female T.blondi (probably Burgundy actually, but then so was Zilla) up and get her x-rayed.....just to be able to compare results.


Nothing happened to my smithi that I used, and my friends regalis, gbb, and Lp were all fine after. He worked at a big vets clinic and we goofed off one night as he was tending to the sick overnight dogs and cats. There really was nothing remarkable to look at in our pics they pretty much looked like yours.


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## Lisa Gayle 713 (Jul 24, 2010)

I'm sorry for your loss, Robc. I shed some tears this morning for her when I saw your youtube video. 

I want to reiterate what someone else said about how wonderful it is that you are willing to share your experiences so that we may all learn. I think it is very brave to be vulnerable to strangers. You are a good man. Peace.


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## Talkenlate04 (Jul 24, 2010)

Lisa Gayle 713 said:


> I think it is very brave to be vulnerable to strangers. You are a good man. Peace.


I think I just threw up a little bit in my mouth. :barf:


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## jebbewocky (Jul 24, 2010)

This isn't Jebbewocky.  He just left himself signed on.  (Mwa-ha-ha-ha! >)  I'm his fiancee, Liz.  I've seen videos of Miss Zilla and she was absolutely beautiful.  I was quite sad when I learned about your loss, so here's yet another offering of condolences.  

Neat that you got an x-ray, though!  ^_^


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## PrimalTaunt (Jul 24, 2010)

Sorry about your loss, Rob.



Talkenlate04 said:


> Nothing happened to my smithi that I used, and my friends regalis, gbb, and Lp were all fine after. He worked at a big vets clinic and we goofed off one night as he was tending to the sick overnight dogs and cats. There really was nothing remarkable to look at in our pics they pretty much looked like yours.


Any chance you still have those around somewhere?  May not be too much to look at but it'd still interest me seeing them.


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## AbraxasComplex (Jul 24, 2010)

Interesting idea with the X-ray. If we lived in the same country I'd offer you a couple Holothele incei to test the affects of X-ray on living tarantulas. I have many mature males that are no longer useful that could be used to test immediate response to extended or multiple sessions. I’d even offer healthy juveniles that could be utilized to observe the long-term affects of a single or multiple X-ray session and if it may cause sterility. 

I understand that some may see testing on that scale as cruel, but it may be useful in the long run and allow for the expansion of knowledge in invertebrate veterinarian medicine (which is highly lacking at the moment).


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## nesok (Jul 24, 2010)

Thanks Rob for sharing your x-rays, I found them very interesting, and the more information we ALL have, the better.

I am also very sorry that Zilla passed, but I think that you did the right thing.


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## Sleazoid (Jul 24, 2010)

TarantulaDude said:


> Looks like she fell? Shocking. I ain't tryin to be a troll or harsh I'm just sayin maybe we can learn from this and promote proper handling


He handles his tarantulas fine. We have all seen him do it. Either way if it was a fall it was from his gigantic cages. Don't take this as me attacking you Rob. I am not. But if she did fall, that must of been how it had to have happened. Sorry for your loss, we will all miss seeing Zilla.


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