# Sharing my new pede(s), Scolopendra gigantea (black morph).



## Neil TW (Aug 14, 2016)

Since I'm crazy enough, this summer vacation I went to Trinidad to find my dreaming centipedes, Scolopendra gigantea (black morph/dark morph/or whatever you like to call them).

Eventually found out they are ridiculously rare, total 10 night search and 6 day search only 3 living specimen were found.

Very luckily a friend in Trinidad will take care of the 2 individuals I obtain from an off-shore island and do the export job so all I need to do is wait for their arrival in the near future.

Well, let's focus on the species.

First, they are MASSIVE. Both individuals I obtain are female, easily hit solid 24cm body length when fully fed. This size is enormous for matriphagy species(or at least I believe they are) in the wild since they usually mate young, breed young, and die young. While a dead male specimen was found on the road of Chaguaramas, fully dehydrated but still hitting solid 22cm body length.

Second, the population is small, and obviously they aren't the dominant species of the area but S.angulata. No idea because the compete between species limited their number or the niche of lifestyle limited their number, or both. Besides that most of the habitat are in military restricted area which you can hear gunshot all the day(they're just practicing, but entering the area and got into big trouble is very likely to happen)

Third, they're nasty tempered. While most South American species, included the Peruvian giants(galapagoensis, gigantea "white leg", or robusta) all choose to run when provoked unless captured, these mighty black giants just stand there are lift their body up like cobras posting defensive gesture, then bite when they can.

Fourth, detail characteristic of the specimen are very different the S.gigantea"white legged form", alone with the far distance between their region and the "gap" filled by galapagoensis, I'm pretty sure they are different species. After talking with some researchers, the neotype of S.gigantea comes from Venezuela, which likely means S.gigantea"white legged from" should be labeled as S.cf.gigantea before they are formally described, but that's another thing not too related to this topic.

Last, unlike most giants I encountered before, they really are climbers, which Actually I encountered 1 individual hanging on 90 degree wall eating a fruit(yes, fruit, which I don't know which kind.), it's obvious it went down to the bottom of the cave, picked a fruit which fell into the cave, and carried it all the way up to the wall to feed.

And last but not least, one of the individual seemed to be gravid IMO, finding no male specimen all I can hope is to get a clutch of captive-born baby from her. Otherwise the holy giant pede will still be the holy giant pede, likely forever.

The compare photo between the obvious 2 different species is one S.angulata mature female alongside a S.gigantea.

Reactions: Like 10 | Love 7


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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 15, 2016)

Christ those are impressive 

Good work man, btw :-s

I love centipedes attitude, I guess one of those specimens would easily jump out from my enclosure eh eh


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## kjgalaxy (Aug 15, 2016)

Beautiful.  And as big as my giant millipedes!  Wow!  I hope you get some babies.  That must have been just an awesome trip!


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## Venom1080 (Aug 15, 2016)

i guess centipedes are pretty cool.. i like the giant black one.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Galapoheros (Aug 15, 2016)

Wow that sounds like it was fun!  imo the fact that you found a few prob means they aren't rare though.  That's about the hunt record for my heros hunting yet heros are considered common, some days finding nothing after hours of lifting and searching.  You might be walking right over specimens under things and in holes.  WC are pretty crazy, I've never found a centipede in the wild that wasn't hungry.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Helpful 1


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## shining (Aug 15, 2016)

Beautiful. 

How can you tell they were females? I'm assuming they exhibit sexual dimorphism (unless you gassed and popped em)?


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## Staehilomyces (Aug 15, 2016)

Awesome finds. Do you think they get any bigger in captivity?


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## Salvador (Aug 15, 2016)

Great information, thank you!


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## KezyGLA (Aug 15, 2016)

Wow! 

Those are quite impressive. I don't own any pedes but find myself watching videos of them on youtube constantly.

I like the look of Scolopendra dehanni 

Orange bits are pretty

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Neil TW (Aug 15, 2016)

Galapoheros said:


> Wow that sounds like it was fun!  imo the fact that you found a few prob means they aren't rare though.  That's about the hunt record for my heros hunting yet heros are considered common, some days finding nothing after hours of lifting and searching.  You might be walking right over specimens under things and in holes.  WC are pretty crazy, I've never found a centipede in the wild that wasn't hungry.


True, but even locales don't notice them much. Alone wit the side I believe I went at the right season and used every method possible(baiting, rock flipping, and walking around at night in various environment) trying to find them. It's nearly 140 hours of searching I've done, usually I can get at least a dozen living specimen of S.subspinipes in Taiwan, or the large Scolopendra species in Hong Kong(which I had done it before, and no I'm not mass collecting any animals.), so I considered it still... quite rare compare to other species.




shining said:


> Beautiful.
> 
> How can you tell they were females? I'm assuming they exhibit sexual dimorphism (unless you gassed and popped em)?


Yeah I popped both of them, but not by gassing but cooling.




Staehilomyces said:


> Awesome finds. Do you think they get any bigger in captivity?


I believe yes, if the male versus female's size difference is similar to the Peruvian giants I won't be surprise if any of them hits 35 cm body length. The very large dead male I found probably die from nature cause(strangely, it died right beside perfect hiding place, with no wounds anywhere, just sit there and died and dried...) measured solid 22cm body length(when completely dehydrated) and 6 cm legspan, which means it's probably nearly 26 cm when it's alive, that's much bigger than any galapagoensis even the Peruvian cf.gigantea(white legged) I've encountered.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Epreese (Aug 17, 2016)

Very cool pictures of a seldom seen pede! Definitely on my wish list. That's so cool that you were able to catch them, must've been very exciting when you finally found them! 
I'm keeping my fingers crossed that one of them is gravid!!


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## Neil TW (Aug 17, 2016)

Epreese said:


> Very cool pictures of a seldom seen pede! Definitely on my wish list. That's so cool that you were able to catch them, must've been very exciting when you finally found them!
> I'm keeping my fingers crossed that one of them is gravid!!


Indeed, finding them in the wild is way more exciting than anything else. Especially when you find the gigantic one.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## arizonensis (Aug 21, 2016)

Absolutely beautiful pedes. I'm heading down to Trinidad in November *fingers crossed*. Any suggestions as to where to look for them? I've gone on night walks in the past in Trini, but I've only ever seen Ts and amblypygids.


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## JAFUENTES (Aug 22, 2016)

Nice!


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## Galapoheros (Aug 22, 2016)

arizonensis said:


> Absolutely beautiful pedes. I'm heading down to Trinidad in November *fingers crossed*. Any suggestions as to where to look for them? I've gone on night walks in the past in Trini, but I've only ever seen Ts and amblypygids.


Centipedes can be hard to find, depends on the species I suppose.  I know several 50 year old people born and raised here where Scolopendra heros and they have never even seen one!, it's weird to me.  But I've learned where to find them.  Where you find one, there are more, they are probably in some areas and not in others like most species. Neil TW, what is it like where you went, did you feel safe?  Were there many that spoke English?  I wouldn't like to go somewhere and not be able to communicate very well.  I would also go to something like Google maps and look at sat imagery, look for natural areas to poss go to, without getting shot haha.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 22, 2016)

Galapoheros said:


> But I've learned where to find them.  Where you find one, there are more


Muahahahah reminds me of my Grandfather with mushrooms :-s

He knew all the places/secret spot and was jealous of that. I suppose if he was into 'pedes he would had said something like that


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## Neil TW (Aug 22, 2016)

arizonensis said:


> Absolutely beautiful pedes. I'm heading down to Trinidad in November *fingers crossed*. Any suggestions as to where to look for them? I've gone on night walks in the past in Trini, but I've only ever seen Ts and amblypygids.


Well, since you've been to there you do know how hard finding them are. Everything must be right to find them, including region(yes they only live in a small area of Trinidad island), season(They only come out about 4~5 months per year), timing(obviously they won't be wandering around during day time). I would like to keep the more detailed habitat info more private since I don't think their population are big enough for mass collection.




Galapoheros said:


> Centipedes can be hard to find, depends on the species I suppose.  I know several 50 year old people born and raised here where Scolopendra heros and they have never even seen one!, it's weird to me.  But I've learned where to find them.  Where you find one, there are more, they are probably in some areas and not in others like most species. Neil TW, what is it like where you went, did you feel safe?  Were there many that spoke English?  I wouldn't like to go somewhere and not be able to communicate very well.  I would also go to something like Google maps and look at sat imagery, look for natural areas to poss go to, without getting shot haha.


The area I went are considered safe, English are the locals' language, but in order to get to the place these centipedes live.... well, it won't be comfortable since I need to carry my food, water, raincoat, and build my temporary shelter to stay overnight. Besides that some places have no road so you'll need to walk your path out by yourself.(Important! Remember to carry a back-up pair of shoes and socks, and do find/construct shelter before afternoon, otherwise you'll be all wet.) 

Yeah for most pedes where you find one you'll find more, but this rule does not apply to this species. I looked over 8 nights in the same region where I find the pedes, and no I did not encounter more, indeed 2 specimens were found in 2 slightly different area.


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## arizonensis (Aug 22, 2016)

Neil TW said:


> Well, since you've been to there you do know how hard finding them are. Everything must be right to find them, including region(yes they only live in a small area of Trinidad island), season(They only come out about 4~5 months per year), timing(obviously they won't be wandering around during day time). I would like to keep the more detailed habitat info more private since I don't think their population are big enough for mass collection.


Fair enough. I'll ask some of the older folks what they know and hope they're in the area.


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## Staehilomyces (Aug 23, 2016)

Whenever I go pede hunting, I nearly always encounter little dud pedes like geophilomorpha. Here in Australia, the top target is usually Ethmostigmus rubripes, but they are nowhere near as impressive as what you are showing here. Good luck with your suspected gravid female!


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## Neil TW (Aug 23, 2016)

arizonensis said:


> Fair enough. I'll ask some of the older folks what they know and hope they're in the area.


Wish you luck, however that's what I did in the first 2 weeks and apparently asking locales... don't do me much help. Most of them just don't know the differences between S.gigantea or S.angulata, for them they're all centipedes, big enough to be noticed and killed...

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Voyager (Aug 28, 2016)

Is it skittish? Asian giants, especially Vietnamese ones, are very nervous, shooting around upon disturbance. I'm not sure if _S. gigantea_ is also like that.


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## KingBaboon352 (Aug 28, 2016)

Awesome find man! Those pedes are huge!


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## Staehilomyces (Aug 28, 2016)

Voyager said:


> Is it skittish? Asian giants, especially Vietnamese ones, are very nervous, shooting around upon disturbance. I'm not sure if _S. gigantea_ is also like that.


I doubt that they would be as aggressive as something like Dehaani. The South American giants are typically a bit more relaxed than the Asian giants.


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## Neil TW (Aug 29, 2016)

Generally not as crazy, but still not something to mess around. The 2 lady I got both are more defensive than galapagoensis and cf.gigantea from Peru.


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## Staehilomyces (Aug 29, 2016)

One thing I am curious about is what "CF" means. It's a term I've hears several times, and I'm curious as to what it means.


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## Neil TW (Aug 29, 2016)

cf. stands for "similar but not the exact species", some use .aff for similar purpose.

Being lucky to compare both populations' animal, I'm pretty sure they are indeed different species, and cause the neotype locality(Venezuela) of S.gigantea made the Venezuela-Trinidid one most likely "scientifically correct".

Yes followed the current ID-key the Peru white leg red antenna one seemed to be gigantea, but when look deeper into the mouthpart and terminal legs that's a whole new story(which current ID-key did not mentioned to details like these)

Adding up two populations are far separated by two BIG nature barrier, the Amazon basin and Andes mountains, it make labeling the red body giant from Peru .cf or .aff before it got formally named make more sense to me.


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## Mastigoproctus (Aug 29, 2016)

Neil TW said:


> cf. stands for "similar but not the exact species", some use .aff for similar purpose.
> 
> Being lucky to compare both populations' animal, I'm pretty sure they are indeed different species, and cause the neotype locality(Venezuela) of S.gigantea made the Venezuela-Trinidid one most likely "scientifically correct".
> 
> ...



I'll get pics of terminal legs and all that from my S. galapagoensis so we can compare as soon as she emerges from her burrow(may be on eggs and if so she'll never emerge, she'll be eaten) but I'm not too convinced that these small factors like terminal spines, minor cephalic plate differences and behavioral differences are enough to definitively call them 2 different species.

Anyone who has ever seen a real Galapagos island S. galapagoensis knows they are far different from what is currently being labled and sold as S. galapagoensis. The coloration is far different, body build is slightly slimmer and from what I've read can be easily 24cm. The ones out of Paru are no smaller, white leg, robusta or galapo CF, I had a 26cm female I just sold off and my one from all my videos Helga is a tad over 20cm, maybe even 24cm if she's molting now.

S. hero are separated by 2 massive dry unpassible deserts as well as many massive mountains in NM in North America as well as the rio grand river basin yet they occer on both sides. I don't think a "nature barrier" would have any effect on a species like this with such astonishing adaptability that has been around for a millennium, plenty of time for a single species with many CFs to spread far and wide.

Now I'm not saying they are the same species, but I don't believe they are that different. The info we have avalible to us on all these giant SA pedes is unreliable, far too unorganized and scarce so following it can arise more questions on the subject then answers.

I have spent weeks in the middle of heros season trying to find specimens in a alleged heavily populated by heros area only to find a lone specimen so since you found a few in just 10 days tells me they must have pretty big numbers. Now angulata is like the polymorpha of SA so I'd bet that's why you probably found a lot more of them during your trip.

Thank you so much for posting these findings! Every little bit of info we can get on them is valuable as almost no one to my knowledge has done extensive work with the Trinidad specimens. So if you do get babies, I'll pay what ever you ask as this is the final variant I need to finish my work on this particular species, maybe what I'll sum up can clear at least a tiny bit of confusion.

I look forward to more post from you as this is the most interesting thing I've seen on AB in a while, you've got my attention sir. Hope all is well, thanks again for posting.

-Michael A. Dixon


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## Neil TW (Aug 29, 2016)

Mastigoproctus said:


> I'll get pics of terminal legs and all that from my S. galapagoensis so we can compare as soon as she emerges from her burrow(may be on eggs and if so she'll never emerge, she'll be eaten) but I'm not too convinced that these small factors like terminal spines, minor cephalic plate differences and behavioral differences are enough to definitively call them 2 different species.
> 
> Anyone who has ever seen a real Galapagos island S. galapagoensis knows they are far different from what is currently being labled and sold as S. galapagoensis. The coloration is far different, body build is slightly slimmer and from what I've read can be easily 24cm. The ones out of Paru are no smaller, white leg, robusta or galapo CF, I had a 26cm female I just sold off and my one from all my videos Helga is a tad over 20cm, maybe even 24cm if she's molting now.
> 
> ...


Indeed the difference of galapagoensis from the islands and mainland are significant, noticed that since I had my private database sat up since senior high. The body ratio different is, well, you know. It's likely to be they adapting different lifestyle thus start to evolve into subspecies or even speciation is occurring.
Very surprised to meet people having similar ideas, maybe we can discuss about our POV in private message or Facebook which I more used to.

However I'm not saying "minor" differences, knowing the fact that same centipede species can have large appearance difference I'm pretty caution about this part. However just the terminal leg spines of two population have differences so big which I actually dug out the rest of my white leg individuals to make sure I did not make mistake. My conclusion is that the spine pattern are big enough to tell them apart, left aside other ID-key feature. When I put the ID-key aside just comparing the difference of the 2 species It's like comparing S.japonica to S.mutilans, or S.dehaani to S.sp.Cherry Red.

Also I'm compare female to female specimen since there are some species having spine differences between two gender.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mastigoproctus (Aug 29, 2016)

Neil TW said:


> Indeed the difference of galapagoensis from the islands and mainland are significant, noticed that since I had my private database sat up since senior high. The body ratio different is, well, you know. It's likely to be they adapting different lifestyle thus start to evolve into subspecies or even speciation is occurring.
> Very surprised to meet people having similar ideas, maybe we can discuss about our POV in private message or Facebook which I more used to.
> 
> However I'm not saying "minor" differences, knowing the fact that same centipede species can have large appearance difference I'm pretty caution about this part. However just the terminal leg spines of two population have differences so big which I actually dug out the rest of my white leg individuals to make sure I did not make mistake. My conclusion is that the spine pattern are big enough to tell them apart, left slide other ID-key feature. When I put the ID-key aside just comparing the difference of the 2 species It's like comparing S.japonica to S.mutilans, or S.dehaani to S.sp.Cherry Red.
> ...


I'd love to discuss this further in a PM, my FB name is Michael Dixon so shoot me a request when you get a chance. Look up mikeshouseofathousandlegs on there you'll find me if you have issues with just my name. I have dreads so that's a dead give away you have the right Michael haha. 

My work is based mostly around centipede behavioral patterns and intelligence levels, not so much updating the taxinomical discriptions of the SA pedes at the moment. I am however working to describe 2 large white centipede sp. in California I believe to just be heros variants. 

There is much to be learned about these creatures still, and I believe the reason there's so many similar centipedes of all different species is because they can and do cross in the wild much like many, many other animals do. My not so popular centipede "hybrid" breeding attempts are helping me prove or disprove that, not going to post what I've found in that aspect just yet. I'm waiting to see if young are successfully produced, simple mating proves nothing in my eyes as I've got all different species to attempt to build webs for other species. 

Last time I mentioned trying to cross my huge Hatian S. alternans (from the island of Hispaniola) with a Sp. Hispaniola island "red giant", a bunch of T hobbyists on the FB AB page threw a fit and told me I shouldn't be allowed to keep inverts hahaha. Mike Dame came to the rescue though and informed them centipedes are not like Ts lmao. I think that post got deleted, since then I haven't even posted on the AB FB page because it's lame and they get hurt when I post my socialization vids and pics (it's aginst the rules on there).

Sorry for the book of a post, I don't post often these days really, only when something really sparks my interest. I'd love to hear more about the Trinidadian specimens behavioral patterns and talk about what else you may have found about them, I don't get on FB everyday but I will later today to check.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Staehilomyces (Aug 30, 2016)

To give visual cue to Mastig's points regarding giant centipede taxonomy, here is an image of the true Scolopendra galapagoensis, found, funnily enough, on the Galapagos (who would've guessed?). By the way, it's not my image.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Freaky123 (Aug 31, 2016)

Neil TW said:


> Since I'm crazy enough, this summer vacation I went to Trinidad to find my dreaming centipedes, Scolopendra gigantea (black morph/dark morph/or whatever you like to call them).
> 
> Eventually found out they are ridiculously rare, total 10 night search and 6 day search only 3 living specimen were found.
> 
> ...


Couldn't be more envious of you! not only have you acquired some, one maybe gravid AND! you have had a dream trip id love to do! how do you even go about getting a wild caught specimen imported into another country legally?


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## Neil TW (Aug 31, 2016)

Freaky123 said:


> Couldn't be more envious of you! not only have you acquired some, one maybe gravid AND! you have had a dream trip id love to do! how do you even go about getting a wild caught specimen imported into another country legally?


Paying taxes, check out regulations,filled up paperwork, finding exporters and importers, that's about all you need to do to im/export animals.

In most part of the world, if the law did not restrict some acts then the acts are legal, though watch out in certain area, like Singapore or China, though.


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## Neil TW (Jan 24, 2017)

Just an update, both pede went underground for about 40 days till now... hope for the best see if I exchange tons of bugs I want and save some money for next trip...

Reactions: Like 2


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## Staehilomyces (Jan 24, 2017)

Best of luck! Keep us updated!


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## RTTB (Jan 24, 2017)

I just read the whole thread and found it fascinating.I hope the end result is healthy broods of pedelings.


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## Ratmosphere (Jan 24, 2017)

Amazing finds!


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## Greenjewls (Jan 25, 2017)

Very exciting!  I hope to see the good news soon


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## Thatonespiderguy (Jan 26, 2017)

What a beauty dude, congratulations!


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## LeFanDesBugs (Sep 9, 2017)

@Neil TW Any news?


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## Neil TW (Sep 10, 2017)

Nah, It seemed like neither of my individuals are gravid, they just molted and grew larger (currently 30cm bl, one of them are in early premolt stage)


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## LeFanDesBugs (Sep 11, 2017)

Well the size in itself is impressive!


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## Ratmosphere (Sep 11, 2017)

I know right? Thing is huge!


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