# Almost tagged



## The Snark (Jul 5, 2011)

Approaching our porch in the carport, my wife saw the snake move as she felt it bump against her ankle. It was in a pile of shoes in very dim light. It got her pants but not her leg. I backed the jeep up and used the headlights to ID.

It was dark brown, coiled and ready, with mottled black and gray, developing into a general diamond pattern towards mid body. It had the heavy wedge shaped head of the viper family and as I coaxed it with a stick it struck repeatedly in a highly aggressive manner. It was about 20 inches long and about 3/4 of an inch thick, giving me the impression of a young juvenile. It's striking was typical lateral of the viper.

I'm under the impression it was a viper, possibly Russelli. Whew. Close call. No pictures as snake vaulting while unlocking the door to get the camera would have been required.


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## Crysta (Jul 5, 2011)

The Snark said:


> It was dark brown, coiled and ready, with mottled black and gray, developing into a general diamond pattern towards mid body. It had the heavy wedge shaped head of the viper family and* as I coaxed it with a stick it struck repeatedly in a highly aggressive manner. *


This is defensive, not aggressive. What would you do if you were a small animal with a giant stick and human blubber poking you?? 

lol

thats good your wife was okay, but since you're from thailand it coulda been lots of things... lol


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## The Snark (Jul 6, 2011)

Re: Crysta: "This is defensive, not aggressive. What would you do if you were a small animal with a giant stick and human blubber poking you??"
Speaking from past experience, tagged from defensive and aggressive feels the same and has the same results. :barf:

Scientifically, the dividing line between defense and offense in snakes varies from species to species and there is a huge gray area. The electro-chemical signal to strike is triggered by the infrared images the snakes are constantly taking. However, the trigger threshold varies drastically. As examples, take the (reputed) worlds most bite happy snake, the Asian rat snake. When agitated it will repeatedly strike at nothing without any infrared image at all. Then swing over to some species of krate (just one of many examples) which requires a picture perfect image and the threshold is so critical the strike reflex can be inhibited by humidity and air temperature.

In the case of our local viper, it was very much in defense mode and struck simply because something approached it's sensing 'field' in what was interpreted as an aggressive manner. Reading up on vipers, especially the Russells, (which is in the top 4 of causing human deaths) it is a very high strung ambush predator. While very reclusive as a general rule, almost any movement entering it's sensing zone is often struck at. It would be extremely hard to classify such a strike as defense or offense.

The problem with the Russelli in particular and reason why it is in the top 4 is tagged usually = death, even though reported bites from it are far far rarer than from other vipers and many other snake species.

Be all that as it may, I'm as happy as can be she didn't get tagged, especially considering 1. the snake was a viper of some sort, most of which around here are extremely bad news and 2. the VAST QUANTITY of numbskull lame brained mega dorks that work in ER's, especially around here. When you are talking getting the antivenin in within a half hour or else, you don't need to go up against a series of halfwit gurney pushers and clerks insisting on filling out forms before treatment.


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## Formerphobe (Jul 6, 2011)

> the VAST QUANTITY of numbskull lame brained mega dorks that work in ER's, especially around here.


Had to chuckle at this.  I think hospitals worldwide recruit them.
So glad your wife didn't get tagged.


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## The Spider Faery (Jul 6, 2011)

Yikes.  I've often wondered what it would be like to live in a country where venomous snakes were an everyday reality.


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## The Snark (Jul 7, 2011)

*Your E.R. anecdote*

(My apologies for the rants)

A rural California city hospital. I had just driven almost 40 miles with my foot on the floor. Patient is on gurney in extreme pain. The venous tourniquet I applied had confined the venom somewhat. Mid calf, below it her leg is mottled purple and 2 to 3 times the size of her other leg. I am staring at Clueless Clerk, hands on hips (making a conscious effort to keep from resting my hand on my sidearm). It is obvious to me Ms. Clerk is only giving me attention because of the gun and badge I was wearing, and my being about 10 inches from her face.

I repeated a third time. "_RATTLE_ _SNAKE_ _BITE_. TREAT PATIENT THEN PAPERWORK." "_PATIENT_... _BEFORE_... _PAPER_."
:wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall:


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## Formerphobe (Jul 8, 2011)

I was sent from work (veterinary ER) to the human ER for treatment of a dog bite wound to the foot.  In the door behind me comes a man supported on either side by two of his co-workers with the bloody stump at the end of his hand wrapped in a blood saturated and streaming T-shirt.  A third man carried a bag, ostensibly containing the wounded man's fingers/hand.  The nurse glanced up, called for housekeeping and continued to take my info...  

"_Oh, please, take him first..._", I tell her.
"We triage everyone on a first come first served basis...", she tells me.  

_"Oh, but I insist.  Look, I'm stepping out of line..."_
"But, I'm not finished taking your information...", says wonder health worker.

She hollered at me for tracking around the blood that was squishing out of my shoe as I walked when I went to get the guy a wheelchair, as she completely disregarded the fact that Hand-in-Bag was pooling in the floor.

I, not so politely, informed her that in veterinary medicine "triage" meant treating gross trauma before boo-boos. 

Never ceases to amaze me...

Reactions: Like 1


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## wesker12 (Jul 8, 2011)

when i was a little kid in india, i lived in the village with my grandparents sometimes and one day I went out into the field and sat down to take a dump in a field (i was only 7). I sat on a basking cobra. probably one of the scariest experiences ever. To be honest i think the only reason I dint get bit was cause the snake was blinded by umm fecal matter  and desperately trying to escape. we were both running from each other, it was scary as hell for awhile now i see the funny side

Reactions: Like 4


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## The Spider Faery (Jul 9, 2011)

Formerphobe said:


> I, not so politely, informed her that in veterinary medicine "triage" meant treating gross trauma before boo-boos.


It means that in "human" medicine also.  My god, all of your E.R. experiences you've posted are amazing...I can understand why you're upset with clerks.  I took medical office administration when I was in college the first time, 10 years ago, and I did a co-op as an emergency department clerk.  We had a lot of people wait patiently while more serious cases were attended to.  It wasn't always a first come first serve basis.  Also, we didn't always get all the information before they got into a room.  On several occassions, I went into the room after the patient had at least seen a nurse and was settled in before getting all the information, even the health card info.  I can't help but wonder if in other countries it's more a matter of getting this information to ensure they get their money, because your healthcare system is not a universal one?


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## The Snark (Jul 10, 2011)

I'm going to add 'Never go poo on a cobra' to my list of lifes rules of thumb.


Formerphobe, could you please clarify:
"We triage everyone on a first come first served basis...", she tells me.
Triage and 'first come, first serve' are antithetical to each other. Any patient can be lowered in priority at any time when triage determines a more urgent patient condition. In the case of arterial bleeding/hemorrhagic shock , that takes priority above everything except brain trauma and code blue. :?

I would add, some paperwork as soon as possible is highly beneficial, but I am referring to charting trends that can indicate deteriorating conditions that could otherwise be overlooked. (As in the case of malignant shock)


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## Formerphobe (Jul 10, 2011)

> Triage and 'first come, first serve' are antithetical to each other


This is true...  but this was told to me by a registered nurse in the emergency department of a fairly large hospital here in the US of A...  



> Any patient can be lowered in priority at any time when triage determines a more urgent patient condition. In the case of arterial bleeding/hemorrhagic shock , that takes priority above everything except brain trauma and code blue.


One would think...  
Having had the misfortune to visit this particular facility on more than one occasion, it seems their definition of 'triage' was TPR, history and eval by an RN on a first come first served basis, regardless of presentation.  THEN you did paperwork and/or were seen by a doctor or medic.



> I'm going to add 'Never go poo on a cobra' to my list of lifes rules of thumb.


+1  LOL


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## wesker12 (Jul 10, 2011)

you should have seen me run.......i made at least 3 miles and when your 7 thats like the world. Im glad your wife didnt get tagged! a russells viper can mess up your day pretty nicely. To be honest I dont mind cobras that much anymore - but kraits - tiny little assassins....hate em.


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## Formerphobe (Jul 10, 2011)

I've seen water moccasins from afar, run into the occasional copperhead and once even saw a timber rattler.  Y'all can keep your Russell's vipers, cobras and kraits!  >>shudder<<


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## The Snark (Jul 10, 2011)

wesker12 said:


> you should have seen me run.......i made at least 3 miles and when your 7 thats like the world. Im glad your wife didnt get tagged! a russells viper can mess up your day pretty nicely. To be honest I dont mind cobras that much anymore - but kraits - tiny little assassins....hate em.


Now there's an idea! Junior Olympics new event. Take a bunch of un-clued kids out onto a track, have them drop their shorts and tell them to sit very still. Then the reptile boxes are opened under the seats. 
To add flavor to the festivities, add an obstacle course to the track so we would have the 'running on water' event, the 20 foot wall 'I believe I can fly' event, and maybe a few flaming hoops.

Speaking from hands on experience, I'll take kraits over many other snakes.


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## wesker12 (Jul 12, 2011)

There so hissy, - I would literally be like at least 8 feet away and it would start striking stupidly at anything in range of its short little body. The only problem I have with them is thier size - really badly nearsighted without glasses/contacts I cant see <edit> let alone a small pissed of krait -and latching ability (they latch on for a while pumping venom). The thing is there so small I often overlook them and they like staying under my sink, near any of the random rodent holes near my place ect. If they didnt have potent venom i might even like them. LOL your junior olympics idea is golden - time to hunt up some poor little kids! Oh god I just read it again ahahahahahhaha thats the best idea i have heard in years!! "I believe I can fly" = golden. I always thought phelps could swim twice as fast if hungry croc was swimming toward him!


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## Crysta (Jul 12, 2011)

The Snark said:


> Re: Crysta: "This is defensive, not aggressive. What would you do if you were a small animal with a giant stick and human blubber poking you??"
> Speaking from past experience, tagged from defensive and aggressive feels the same and has the same results. :barf:
> 
> Scientifically, the dividing line between defense and offense in snakes varies from species to species and there is a huge gray area. The electro-chemical signal to strike is triggered by the infrared images the snakes are constantly taking. However, the trigger threshold varies drastically. As examples, take the (reputed) worlds most bite happy snake, the Asian rat snake. When agitated it will repeatedly strike at nothing without any infrared image at all. Then swing over to some species of krate (just one of many examples) which requires a picture perfect image and the threshold is so critical the strike reflex can be inhibited by humidity and air temperature.
> ...



Haha I see what you mean scientificly, but you can't really blame a snake who's harnessed its evolutionary ability to strike at things to care, ya never know when a meal will pop by~ be it humidity, or fluffy!


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## The Snark (Sep 29, 2014)

wesker12 said:


> you should have seen me run.......i made at least 3 miles and when your 7 thats like the world. Im glad your wife didnt get tagged! a russells viper can mess up your day pretty nicely. To be honest I dont mind cobras that much anymore - but kraits - tiny little assassins....hate em.


Bumping an old thread I coincidentally came across. Kraits, tiny little assassins... The one I saw last night, shooed off the road. Solid 6 foot long and easily as thick as my forearm.


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## Najakeeper (Oct 2, 2014)

Phew! A Russel's bite would have been bad. I have suffered a much less toxic viper bite from a "close" relative and even though the snake was a yearling and has already bitten prey, it was enough to ruin the next 15 days.


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## ratluvr76 (Oct 2, 2014)

Najakeeper said:


> Phew! A Russel's bite would have been bad. I have suffered a much less toxic viper bite from a "close" relative and even though the snake was a yearling and has already bitten prey, it was enough to ruin the next 15 days.


thank you for reviving this thread Snark, it was a good read.  I'm really glad your wife didn't get tagged by that viper for sure! That being said, I'm in a Facebook group that most of the members are based in India and they frequently post pictures of krait's and cobras... The kraits are beautiful.. I can never get enough of looking at them  

The stories from the ER though.. man that's scary that healthcare professionals should be so clueless.. !


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## VenomousMe (Oct 2, 2014)

wesker12 said:


> when i was a little kid in india, i lived in the village with my grandparents sometimes and one day I went out into the field and sat down to take a dump in a field (i was only 7). I sat on a basking cobra. probably one of the scariest experiences ever. To be honest i think the only reason I dint get bit was cause the snake was blinded by umm fecal matter  and desperately trying to escape. we were both running from each other, it was scary as hell for awhile now i see the funny side


Thank you for sharing. I don't care where your from, that's just funny.


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## klawfran3 (Oct 2, 2014)

My question is Snark, why are you holding a crate bare handed. that's not always the smartest thing you can do. almost as bad as pooping on a cobra.


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## The Snark (Oct 2, 2014)

klawfran3 said:


> My question is Snark, why are you holding a crate bare handed. that's not always the smartest thing you can do. almost as bad as pooping on a cobra.


Turns out that probably isn't a krait and is only mildly venomous and that makes all the difference in the world yes? It was very early and it was lying on the road trying to get warm. It refused to move and I had no hook. It was so laconic and slow I ended up picking it up just to get it and myself out of traffic. And no, I don't recommend up picking on a general basis.

Reactions: Like 1


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## klawfran3 (Oct 2, 2014)

The Snark said:


> Turns out that probably isn't a krait and is only mildly venomous and that makes all the difference in the world yes? It was very early and it was lying on the road trying to get warm. It refused to move and I had no hook. It was so laconic and slow I ended up picking it up just to get it and myself out of traffic. And no, I don't recommend up picking on a general basis.


Ahh my mistake. good to know you saved the little guy from harms way.


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