# Okay Guys! Whats next?



## Rachel C (May 12, 2017)

I currently have 5 tarantulas, mostly terrestrial, 1 arboreal. I am looking for some suggestions on new additions. What are your favorite species to keep? Trying to keep it affordable. Thanks guys!


----------



## Kendricks (May 12, 2017)

Would help to know what you already have.

I have:
_A. geniculata
G. pulchra
P. murinus_

And I can recommend, without hesitation:
_A. geniculata
G. pulchra
P. murinus_

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 3 | Lollipop 1


----------



## Rachel C (May 12, 2017)

I have:
B. smithi
A. geniculata
A. chalcodes
A. seemani
A. avic


----------



## sdsnybny (May 12, 2017)

N. incei, D. diamantinensis, N. tripepii, E. sp Red/Yellow....just look at my profile list LOL

edit for photo insert

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 1 | Love 1


----------



## cold blood (May 12, 2017)

P. cambridgei...One of the coolest t ever...seriously, that is my opinion, they're everything one wants in a t...fast growing, fairly large, unbelievable eaters, they're green (the least common T "color"), and the larger they grow, the better display species they make as they are out in the open much, if not most of the time.  They are easily bred, and therefore cheaper and typically easy to find.  They are also pretty calm and while still fast, not typically all that difficult to deal with.  













Psalmopoeus cambridgei



__ cold blood
__ Mar 11, 2017
__ 7
__
cambridgei
psalmopoeus
psalmopoeus cambridgei
trinidad chevron tarantula




						cam...the camster..the caminator, the cam-meister...Dr. Camenstein...Cam-a-lama-ding-dong...mass...
					




Already have a cam??  Then irminia is great...less visible, much more reclusive and a little smaller, but dang, when you see them...its worth it.













20170421_224427



__ cold blood
__ Apr 21, 2017



						AF irminia
					
















Resized952017040695224617



__ cold blood
__ Apr 7, 2017



						irminia female #2
					




A Pamphobetus...what species you ask???  It literally* does not matter*...get the one you find the best deal on and get it as a sling, cause they are awesome slings to raise (like the cams)...supreme eaters...like, they will catch food like a dog, and they are always out, so they make great display spiders...most get quite large and impressive...MMs are brightly colored in pinks and purples, females typically are more deep chocolaty brown or black...and they do have nice carapaces as well. Growth when young is staggering, its like a totally new t every molt.












Resized952017022895233014



__ cold blood
__ Mar 1, 2017
__ 3



						nigricolor.

Gotta love Pamphs!!
					
















Resized952016112095154314



__ cold blood
__ Nov 20, 2016
__ 4



						very fat nigricolor.   She's about 6.5"
					




Or just get an avic, any avic...you can't ever have too many fuzzy cricket killing avics around.













Resized952017031595002953



__ cold blood
__ Mar 15, 2017
__ 14


















Resized952017020795002707



__ cold blood
__ Feb 7, 2017



						Avic avic, just starting to get adult blues...but holding onto that bright sling abdomen...love...
					
















Resized952017010795161448



__ cold blood
__ Jan 13, 2017



						versi
					
















Resized952016120995124158



__ cold blood
__ Dec 9, 2016
__ 1



						juronesis
					
















Resized952016110995185618



__ cold blood
__ Nov 9, 2016



						avic avic
					
















Resized952016112295013337



__ cold blood
__ Nov 22, 2016



						A. avic
					




Incei are also a great option....highly underrated.












Resized_20161001_172721



__ cold blood
__ Oct 15, 2016
__ 1

Reactions: Like 11 | Agree 3 | Love 1 | Award 1


----------



## Xafron (May 12, 2017)

You buying slings or sexed juveniles/adults?


----------



## basin79 (May 12, 2017)

Grammostola pulchra. What they lack in bright colours they make up with being as black as night.

Reactions: Agree 5 | Love 7


----------



## BishopiMaster (May 12, 2017)

Rachel C said:


> I currently have 5 tarantulas, mostly terrestrial, 1 arboreal. I am looking for some suggestions on new additions. What are your favorite species to keep? Trying to keep it affordable. Thanks guys!





Rachel C said:


> I have:
> B. smithi
> A. geniculata
> A. chalcodes
> ...


Your collection is heavily biased towards:
- New World Tarantulas
- Aphonopelma

Considering that the brachypelma are pretty similar to the aphonopelma, and that there is no
reason to believe you are even considering moving towards old world T's, and the fact that your collection is primarily terrestrial, with the exception of the A. Avic which fills your arboreal space, your next T will be a Lasiodora Parahybana, for their size and straying from the stillness of the brachypelma and aphonopelma.

You could also get a green bottle blue to spice it up.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


----------



## patriotgator (May 12, 2017)

Grammostola pulchripes. Gets to be pretty big and is a great eater. I stopped feeding mine as it's gotten too fat.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 5


----------



## ledzeppelin (May 12, 2017)

GBB, P. sazimai,  B. vagans, Y. diversipes, a pokie perhaps? Although I would suggest a psalmo first.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## basin79 (May 12, 2017)

Caribena versicolor. What the lack for not being as black as night they make up with bright colours.

Reactions: Like 6 | Agree 3 | Funny 3 | Love 3 | Award 2


----------



## cold blood (May 12, 2017)

basin79 said:


> Caribena versicolor. What the lack for not being as black as night they make up with bright colours.


Great pics, man.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


----------



## basin79 (May 12, 2017)

cold blood said:


> Great pics, man.


Thank you.

I just wish my other arboreals where as camera friendly.


----------



## MrTwister (May 12, 2017)

Not sure about your location, but some super affordable $10 slings in the great white north:

Hapalopus sp. Colombia - large
Lasiodora difficilis
Lasiodora parahybana
Nhandu chromatus
Phormictopus cancerides
Hysterocrates sp. Nigeria
Brachypelma albopilosum

Reactions: Informative 1


----------



## Tanner Dzula (May 12, 2017)

I'm gunna go out on a crazy tiny limb and say.....OBT? 

benefits:
-beautiful
-Orange
-amazing webbing  (if you give them a good amount of substrate, but not too much, you get a crazy tunnel system)
-good eaters
-usually fairly cheap

Cons: 
-fast.
-they bite
-beautiful threat posture(which can also be a benefit) 
-did i mention they are fast and bite? 




no but for real, id Agree with @BishopiMaster that a LP( lasiodora Parahybana AKA Salmon Pink Birdeater) is a great option. i had a similar list as you when i first started and i went with a LP and it has been wonderful. my Girl is now currently pushing 8" and an absolute delight. 
she's usually out, she has amazing feeding response(similar to A. Geniculata)  nice little pink fluffs, and oh Boy the Size is beautiful. 


BUT in all seriousness if you did want to dip a toe into the Old World realm, id highly suggest a E. Pachypus (aka Stout leg baboon) beautiful species with a  good amount of color and awesome Huge back legs. 
as far as baboons they seem to be the most well tempered and what id personally suggest as the best starter baboon species. 

most pet holes but will give you much of the needed experience for other OW's without all the Same risks  or insane speed. 
and their venom isn't as bad to boot. after being bit by both E. Pachypus and by a OBT and other baboons, i can tell you the pachypus is truly a step down from most other baboons and usually not a trip to the ER (looking at you H. Maculata and S. Calceatum)

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## user 666 (May 12, 2017)

P cancerides.

This T has been one of my favorites ever since it crawled out of its delivery straw. I got one at just over an inch, and see it almost every day. It is active but not aggressive, and reasonably tolerant of me opening the enclosure.


----------



## johnny quango (May 12, 2017)

If you want a nw that's a little different try Lasiodorides polycuspulatus trust me im a doctor well a keeper at least


----------



## The Grym Reaper (May 12, 2017)

Grammostola iheringi
View media item 39593View media item 39592
Psalmopoeus irminia/cambridgei
View media item 39006View media item 39594View media item 40167View media item 40166
Nhandu chromatus
View media item 39541
Pamphobeteus antinous
View media item 39947
Caribena versicolor
View media item 38105View media item 39595View media item 38446
Chromatopelma cyaneopubescens
Lasiodora klugi/difficilis
Brachypelma emilia

Reactions: Like 5 | Love 2


----------



## basin79 (May 12, 2017)

The Grym Reaper said:


> Grammostola iheringi
> View media item 39593View media item 39592
> Psalmopoeus irminia/cambridgei
> View media item 39006View media item 39594View media item 40167View media item 40166
> ...


A Grammostola iheringi has been on my radar. I'll have one soon.


----------



## The Grym Reaper (May 12, 2017)

basin79 said:


> A Grammostola iheringi has been on my radar. I'll have one soon.


You won't regret it, they are awesome, by far my favourite out of the genus.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## sdsnybny (May 12, 2017)

Tanner Dzula said:


> and their venom isn't as bad to boot. after being bit by both E. Pachypus and by a OBT and other baboons, i can tell you the pachypus is truly a step down from most other baboons and usually not a trip to the ER (looking at you H. Maculata and S. Calceatum)


@Tanner Dzula 
Just curious, how could you tell if the bite from E. pachypus was a wet or dry bite resulting in much different results??


----------



## GreyPsyche (May 12, 2017)

Personally I love Ts with varied behaviors so I'd say E. Murinis as you're lacking a fossorial species. After that I'd dive into OWs if you're interested in that change of pace.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Tanner Dzula (May 12, 2017)

sdsnybny said:


> @Tanner Dzula
> Just curious, how could you tell if the bite from E. pachypus was a wet or dry bite resulting in much different results??


because I've had both, total been tagged 3 times by my E. Pachypus(all 3 of my own stupidity and probably shouldnt have happened) 1 was for sure a dry bite, and two for sure was NOT  dry bites. there was a significant difference between the two, and with the dry bite, it was more of a very quick Tap and lasted for a split second. 
with the other two it was an actual Full on Bite, she dug her fangs in and did not release for a almost a solid 2 seconds before she proceeded to run back down my arm and across my table to the wall where i caught her with a catch cup. 
the situation for the bite technically shouldnt have even happened, but i screwed up and was in a bit of a rush, i went to fill her water dish and my hand slipped a bit and basicly dumped a MASSIVE amount of water into her enclosure. flooded a lot of the substrate on that side of the tank, so didn't really have a choice but to re-house her temporarily, and she was not happy about it. 

Don't get me wrong, its still painful, and not anything to joke about, but its definitely not on quite the same level  of pain as a OBT. 
With the Pachy, i started to sweat, got pretty nauseous, was some burning at the bite location and my heart was beating pretty fast throughout the day and a little into the next morning. by the next day-mid day i felt fine with little to no symptoms present left other then the occasional slight burning from  the bite site. overall, it was 1-2 days of discomfort with the first day being the worst by far. I'm not trying to down play it but all I'm saying is it is literally night and day compared to the bite of an OBT. 
My OBT was only ~3.5" at the time, and it tagged my right above my wrist, and within minutes felt like my whole arm was on Fire. the swelling was pretty bad and the pain was some the worst I've experienced in regards to an animal/arachnid encounter. on top of that the muscle cramps lasted for days after. basicly 1-2 days of discomfort VS 1week+ of pain and discomfort and muscle cramps.

Reactions: Informative 1


----------



## cold blood (May 12, 2017)

Boy, you sure do get tagged a lot.

Reactions: Agree 4 | Funny 4


----------



## Tanner Dzula (May 12, 2017)

cold blood said:


> Boy, you sure do get tagged a lot.


well, to be honest it was only two seperate incidents where I've been bitten. 

the bites with the pachypus were all within a few days in regards to the situation i mentioned, which was obviously my own mistake and she was, I'm sure, a very irritated T at the time, understandable considering i basicly flooded her hide and forced her into the open(the first dry tag) i then had to coax her out to rehouse her( first actual wet bite) and then after getting a new set up going and actually doing the rehousing was the second wet bite.  I'm pretty sure this whole experience just kind of frazzled her. 

she was nothing but amazing both before and after that. 


The OBT was me just plain being stupid and trying to get a picture of it while he was threat postured. learned the hard way that i will never do that again. 

i learn lessons the hard way, but i try not to repeat the same mistakes twice.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## CyclingSam (May 12, 2017)

I'll throw in a vote for the P. cambridgei. I bough one not really knowing what they were and I really ended up liking mine. They grow fast and are good eaters. My boy is always doing something crazy. It is also one of my more active Ts.
	

		
			
		

		
	




I also like his close cousin, the P. pulcher, though she can be a butt at times.

Reactions: Like 2 | Love 4


----------



## sdsnybny (May 12, 2017)

Tanner Dzula said:


> because I've had both, total been tagged 3 times by my E. Pachypus(all 3 of my own stupidity and probably shouldnt have happened) 1 was for sure a dry bite, and two for sure was NOT  dry bites. there was a significant difference between the two, and with the dry bite, it was more of a very quick Tap and lasted for a split second.
> with the other two it was an actual Full on Bite, she dug her fangs in and did not release for a almost a solid 2 seconds before she proceeded to run back down my arm and across my table to the wall where i caught her with a catch cup.
> the situation for the bite technically shouldnt have even happened, but i screwed up and was in a bit of a rush, i went to fill her water dish and my hand slipped a bit and basicly dumped a MASSIVE amount of water into her enclosure. flooded a lot of the substrate on that side of the tank, so didn't really have a choice but to re-house her temporarily, and she was not happy about it.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply


----------



## Tanner Dzula (May 12, 2017)

sdsnybny said:


> Thanks for the reply


 ehh, I'm sitting at work with nothing better to do, figured why not share the experience.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## The Grym Reaper (May 12, 2017)

CyclingSam said:


> I also like his close cousin, the P. pulcher, though she can be a butt at times.


I forgot about them, my little boy is the scattiest Psalmo I own, webs a lot more than the others too.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Olan (May 12, 2017)

I also suggest Pamphobeteus. Awesome genus. My Phormictopus is also really cool. And I just got a couple G. iheringi juveniles, and am really liking them too.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## nicodimus22 (May 12, 2017)

I'll second the G. pulchra. They're awesome.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Rachel C (May 12, 2017)

BishopiMaster said:


> Your collection is heavily biased towards:
> - New World Tarantulas
> - Aphonopelma
> 
> ...


You caught me. I have exclusively stuck to OW's because I'm new and I wanted to tackle a few hardier species with a bit less attitude first. I have considered an LP but I'm loving my avic and am also looking into more arboreals. I live in Maryland so it gets quite cold here and its also extremely humid in the summer so I want to make sure any animal I get would be happy in my home and the environment I live in wouldn't make it uncomfortable. I'm also a worrier so I am avoiding the Grammostolas only because of their famous fasting periods that I'm sure would give me supreme anxiety.


----------



## Rachel C (May 12, 2017)

I'll give you guys all a list of ones that I'm heavily considering:
GBB
C. Veris
A. purpurea
LP
OBT??(little afraid, a lot in love)

I'm currently writing down everyones suggestions and researching everything.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Olan (May 12, 2017)

Out of those I suggest C. versicolor. I've had mine for 9 years and she's great. I love OBTs also, but you should probably try a starter baboon first like ceratogyrus, just so you're not totally taken by surprise.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Tanner Dzula (May 12, 2017)

Rachel C said:


> I'll give you guys all a list of ones that I'm heavily considering:
> GBB
> C. Veris
> A. purpurea
> ...


out of the list, i also second the versicolor or even the GBB. Not to hard, Very beautiful and would do good in your area. 

as for the OBT, as long as you do the opposite as i did at first you should have to worry  

with them its all about respecting the animal and just knowing its not exactly a species you want to make feeding videos with the lid wide open with. 

id probably hold off on the OBT but its totally up to you. 

but if you did go for a OW baboon, id say E. pachypus or like Olan said, a ceratogyrus. great first time baboon species.


----------



## sdsnybny (May 12, 2017)

Rachel C said:


> . I'm also a worrier so I am avoiding the Grammostolas only because of their famous fasting periods that I'm sure would give me supreme anxiety.


The only fasting a G. iheringi will do is eat fast. they grow quick, tackle food like a linebacker, and get 7-8"

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 3


----------



## The Grym Reaper (May 12, 2017)

Rachel C said:


> I am avoiding the Grammostolas only because of their famous fasting periods that I'm sure would give me supreme anxiety.


Not a problem with G. iheringi, they eat like tanks and only refuse food when in premoult, they're also more active (very active hunters), faster and have a bit more attitude than other Grammos, they grow much faster than the other members of the genus too.



Rachel C said:


> GBB
> C. Versicolor
> A. purpurea
> LP
> OBT??(little afraid, a lot in love)


Out of those I'd go with the GBB or C. versicolor.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## Rachel C (May 12, 2017)

Tanner Dzula said:


> out of the list, i also second the versicolor or even the GBB. Not to hard, Very beautiful and would do good in your area.
> 
> as for the OBT, as long as you do the opposite as i did at first you should have to worry
> 
> ...


totally understood. I don't handle and i don't mess with my T's at all. Just feed and water and thats all so I'm not terribly concerned with temperament but I totally get they are super lighting fast.


----------



## Tanner Dzula (May 12, 2017)

Rachel C said:


> totally understood. I don't handle and i don't mess with my T's at all. Just feed and water and thats all so I'm not terribly concerned with temperament but I totally get they are super lighting fast.


yea they can be pretty fast. I've noticed that usually, if they have a secure hide, they are more prone to Flight rather then fight, _usually*
_
just never want to come between them and their hide on purpose though haha. 
_
_


----------



## GreyPsyche (May 12, 2017)

Rachel C said:


> I'll give you guys all a list of ones that I'm heavily considering:
> GBB
> C. Veris
> A. purpurea
> ...


I have three of these that are on your list. I'm particularly fond of the GBB and OBT.

The Versicolor is pretty sweet as well but I hate tearing her webbing up when I open the enclosure and she loves to try escaping whenever it's time to feed or do maintenance.

The Versicolor is pretty sweet too but I hate ripping our webbing when I have to open the enclosure and she loves to try to climb out when I open it which is aggravating as she doesn't go back in easily. oh, she's also harder to feed as she's not big enough for live crickets, I can't get pinheads and her mealworms fall of her plants before she gets to em although I've seen her come down once or twice, I think she even came down and ate one but I don't know.


----------



## Ungoliant (May 12, 2017)

sdsnybny said:


> edit for photo insert


So fluffy! Which species is that?

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Timc (May 12, 2017)

If you're interested in A. Purpurea then may a suggest Avicularia sp. peru purple? Mine is a doll in every sense. No real attitude, eats well, and did I mention she is purple with fuzzy highlights? I have just enjoyed her growing up so much she is probably my favorite spider at this point. She's quick to run for cover but all things considered I'd buy one for everyone I know I like them so much.

Reactions: Like 1 | Love 2


----------



## sdsnybny (May 12, 2017)

Ungoliant said:


> So fluffy! Which species is that?


Nhandu tripepii

Reactions: Like 1 | Love 1


----------



## viper69 (May 12, 2017)

E. sp. Red, the giant of the T world! 













E. sp. Red, Adult Female eating 2 of 2.



__ viper69
__ Aug 29, 2016


















E. sp. Red, Adult Female- Recent Molt



__ viper69
__ Aug 29, 2016
__ 1
__
chilensis
euathlus sp. "red"
female
homoeomma
homoeomma chilensis



















AF  E. sp. Red, Post-Molt



__ viper69
__ Aug 29, 2016







OR this....













0.1 Neoholothele fasciaaurinigra, sometimes called The Bumble Bee



__ viper69
__ Jan 14, 2017
__ 13



						I waited years to obtain this species ever since I saw it on Rick West's site.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Love 4


----------



## viper69 (May 12, 2017)

Rachel C said:


> I'll give you guys all a list of ones that I'm heavily considering:
> GBB
> C. Veris
> A. purpurea
> ...



GBB or C. versi

There are better first time OW species to get, such as a Ceratogyrus species...

OR, I. mira, the only terrestrial trap door tarantula known to man













I mira- They do come out at times



__ viper69
__ Jul 16, 2016
__ 3


















I mira Feeding 2 of 3



__ viper69
__ Jul 16, 2016
__ 8

Reactions: Like 3


----------



## Jason B (May 13, 2017)

Out of your options I would recommend the GBB, I may be biased because there own of my favorite Ts but their colors are pretty amazing and unlike other Ts they don't need great lighting to show them off where a species like a P. Metallica (a beautiful spider no doubt) can look a little washed out under normal lighting conditions. And GBBs aren't the type of spider to hide, even my sling who is about 1.5 spent his first month using his water dish as his hide, he eventually moved up onto a fake plant directly above his dish, but he's always right there. Unlike say my P. Irminia who I haven't seen in like 3-4 weeks because it sealed its hide up.

Another nice thing about GBB is they are a faster species, but are more prone to running then standing their ground. So you can get some experience with a faster species which will benefit you when you get to OW T and since your already considering an obt its just a matter of time. 

A C. Versi is or a P. Cambridgei as they would also both be good options in that regard.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## BishopiMaster (May 13, 2017)

Rachel C said:


> You caught me. I have exclusively stuck to OW's because I'm new and I wanted to tackle a few hardier species with a bit less attitude first. I have considered an LP but I'm loving my avic and am also looking into more arboreals. I live in Maryland so it gets quite cold here and its also extremely humid in the summer so I want to make sure any animal I get would be happy in my home and the environment I live in wouldn't make it uncomfortable. I'm also a worrier so I am avoiding the Grammostolas only because of their famous fasting periods that I'm sure would give me supreme anxiety.


If you are worried about your room temperature and humidity, for slings at least, you can utilize a glass aquarium with a heat pad to the side, you can use foil tape to tape it, and cover 3/4ths of the top with tin foil as per a micro climate setup in the roughest usage of the word. As far as arboreals i dont think the selection is extensive with NW's past the avic genus, but i can assure you that you will not have issues with appetite when you own an LP. Unless one comes along and in that case you can name it murphy.


----------



## mistertim (May 13, 2017)

Rachel C said:


> You caught me. I have exclusively stuck to OW's because I'm new and I wanted to tackle a few hardier species with a bit less attitude first. I have considered an LP but I'm loving my avic and am also looking into more arboreals. I live in Maryland so it gets quite cold here and its also extremely humid in the summer so I want to make sure any animal I get would be happy in my home and the environment I live in wouldn't make it uncomfortable. I'm also a worrier so I am avoiding the Grammostolas only because of their famous fasting periods that I'm sure would give me supreme anxiety.


If you are looking into more arboreals I also recommend a P. cambridgei. They're basically a middle area between an Avic and a Pokie. Faster and a bit more feisty than Avics but not quite as fast as Pokies and without the OW Pokie venom. They also tend to be out on display a lot (though my girl has been holed up in her cork tube for a couple months now...no clue what she means by it). I live in NoVa so my weather is pretty much the same as yours and I have no problem with my P. cam...they're very hardy.

Reactions: Informative 1


----------



## The Grym Reaper (May 13, 2017)

BishopiMaster said:


> As far as arboreals i dont think the selection is extensive with NW's past the avic genus


Erm...

Antillena, Caribena, Ybyrapora, Iridopelma, Pachistopelma, Tapinauchenius, Psalmopoeus.

Thrixopelma ockerti is (I think) the only arboreal of its genus.

I'm probably missing some others.

There's quite a few to choose from.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## Andrea82 (May 13, 2017)

Tanner Dzula said:


> well, to be honest it was only two seperate incidents where I've been bitten.
> 
> the bites with the pachypus were all within a few days in regards to the situation i mentioned, which was obviously my own mistake and she was, I'm sure, a very irritated T at the time, understandable considering i basicly flooded her hide and forced her into the open(the first dry tag) i then had to coax her out to rehouse her( first actual wet bite) and then after getting a new set up going and actually doing the rehousing was the second wet bite.  I'm pretty sure this whole experience just kind of frazzled her.
> 
> ...


How do you rehouse your spiders, with your hands??

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## darkness975 (May 13, 2017)

basin79 said:


> Grammostola pulchra. What they lack in bright colours they make up with being as black as night.


I too am partial to the Darkness  mwahahaha  (said with creepy Christian Bale Batman voice)  


Question - what is it eating in that picture?

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Love 1


----------



## basin79 (May 13, 2017)

darkness975 said:


> I too am partial to the Darkness  mwahahaha  (said with creepy Christian Bale Batman voice)
> 
> 
> Question - what is it eating in that picture?


Loads of blue bottle flies.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## BishopiMaster (May 13, 2017)

The Grym Reaper said:


> Erm...
> 
> Antillena, Caribena, Ybyrapora, Iridopelma, Pachistopelma, Tapinauchenius, Psalmopoeus.
> 
> ...


Are you sure that psalmopoeus is 'arboreal'?

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## BishopiMaster (May 13, 2017)

BishopiMaster said:


> Are you sure that psalmopoeus is 'arboreal'?


Sorry, overall, the p. Irminia is really more of an old world, everything about it is old world


----------



## Andrea82 (May 13, 2017)

BishopiMaster said:


> Sorry, overall, the p. Irminia is really more of an old world, everything about it is old world


Except that it is native to Venezuela...which makes it a NW...
Also, 'Are you sure Psalmopoeus is arboreal?'...euhm..yes?

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2 | Love 1


----------



## Andrea82 (May 13, 2017)

BishopiMaster said:


> Are you sure that psalmopoeus is 'arboreal'?


Haha, your video of her was one that I used to binge myself on in anticipating the arrival of mine  I think it was super cute seeing her picking them up like that ( I don't use 'cute' a lot in relation to spiders, but this one absolutely was cute  ). It looked like someone throwing candy on the floor between a bunch of kids .


----------



## The Grym Reaper (May 13, 2017)

BishopiMaster said:


> Are you sure that psalmopoeus is 'arboreal'?


Yeah, they might burrow as slings/juvies but they're arboreal, they spend most of their lives above ground.

Ephebopus are the opposite way around, they can be arboreal as slings/juvies but they're still fossorial because they spend most of their lives underground.



BishopiMaster said:


> Sorry, overall, the p. Irminia is really more of an old world, everything about it is old world


Psalmos and Tappies are, by definition, NW's. 

They're generally seen as a "stepping stone" between Avicularia/Iridopelma/etc. and Pokies because they have the speed and temperament of the latter but without the potent venom.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Tanner Dzula (May 13, 2017)

Andrea82 said:


> How do you rehouse your spiders, with your hands??


to be honest it might have been easier if i did use my hands! if i had known how the situation was going to end up, i would have just dealt with it and gotten it over with. 

haha but no, usually with some paintbrushes, the large long deli cups and about 10 minutes of holding my breathe.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## BishopiMaster (May 13, 2017)

The Grym Reaper said:


> Yeah, they might burrow as slings/juvies but they're arboreal, they spend most of their lives above ground.
> 
> Ephebopus are the opposite way around, they can be arboreal as slings/juvies but they're still fossorial because they spend most of their lives underground.
> 
> ...


I mean this is basically semantics, they are NWS, they are "from" the NW, but they are very much an old world by behavior

Reactions: Disagree 1


----------



## kevinlowl (May 13, 2017)

BishopiMaster said:


> your next T will be a Lasiodora Parahybana


^I agree with this guy.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Love 1


----------



## viper69 (May 13, 2017)

BishopiMaster said:


> I mean this is basically semantics, they are NWS, they are "from" the NW, but they are very much an old world by behavior


What about their behavior makes you think that, just curious.


----------



## BishopiMaster (May 13, 2017)

viper69 said:


> What about their behavior makes you think that, just curious.


The fact they are fast and aggressive, the fact that their venom while not being purist OW is hotter than NW, they dont even have urticating hairs, their mechanism is their venom, for all intensive purposes psalmopoeus, particularly p irminia, are much more OW than they are NW by design

Reactions: Disagree 1


----------



## viper69 (May 13, 2017)

BishopiMaster said:


> The fact they are fast and aggressive, the fact that their venom while not being purist OW is hotter than NW, they dont even have urticating hairs, their mechanism is their venom, for all intensive purposes psalmopoeus, particularly p irminia, are much more OW than they are NW by design


I understand what you are thinking, they have certain features found in OWs, but in point of fact everything you mentioned is found in other NW Ts too.

Tapi's are widely regarded as the fastest Ts out there, they are NW.

Tarantulas aren't aggressive, they keep to themselves. They don't go out of their way to start a fight with other animals. They are defensive. Now, man, that's an aggressive animal.

Their venom tends to be stronger than many other NWs, but they are still a NW T. The word purist doesn't fit here.

There are quite a few species of NW that don't have urticating setae, for example N. incei, and D. diamantinensis. So their mechanism is their venom, they are both pretty fast species, no one would think they are "more OW than NW"

Reactions: Agree 3


----------



## BishopiMaster (May 13, 2017)

viper69 said:


> I understand what you are thinking, they have certain features found in OWs, but in point of fact everything you mentioned is found in other NW Ts too.
> 
> Tapi's are widely regarded as the fastest Ts out there, they are NW.
> 
> ...


And that's a good point also, a Tapi wouldn't be good for her either as she has exclaimed that she is reluctant to transition to OW t's, and anything by behavior. "Everything you mentioned is found in other NW t's". When you are referring to a small subset to invalidate my argument, then that's not representational of the vast majority of new world T's. The vast majority of new world t's are not fast and aggressive, nor have the venom potency of psalmopoeus species such as p irminia. Your argument for "tarantulas are not aggressive, they keep to themselves, they are defensive, man is aggressive" actually flies in the face of the very reason that old worlds are not a problem, because as you said, tarantulas, and old worlds ARE tarantulas. No, they're not aggressive, but when they can shoot back around at quick speeds to the point that they enable themselves into a defensive position by way of being on a predator that's much larger than them, they BECOME defensive, and those fangs go down.

"Their venom tends to be stronger than many other NWs, but they are still a NW T. The word purist doesn't fit here"

The vast majority of new world tarantulas are slow, use urticating bristles as their mechanism for defense, and do not have a bite that causes significant bodily reaction, your argument does not fit here because when you say that there are other NW's that do not have urticating bristles either, you are referring to a small subset of new world tarantulas, it's not representational of the vast majority of NW's, so it is not useful.

The op has exclaimed that she is relunctant to transition to OW's, so let's not try to make a square peg fit in a round hole here by classifying p pirminia as NW and saying that there's nothing to their behavior.

Reactions: Disagree 1


----------



## BishopiMaster (May 13, 2017)

BishopiMaster said:


> And that's a good point also, a Tapi wouldn't be good for her either as she has exclaimed that she is reluctant to transition to OW t's, and anything by behavior. "Everything you mentioned is found in other NW t's". When you are referring to a small subset to invalidate my argument, then that's not representational of the vast majority of new world T's. The vast majority of new world t's are not fast and aggressive, nor have the venom potency of psalmopoeus species such as p irminia. Your argument for "tarantulas are not aggressive, they keep to themselves, they are defensive, man is aggressive" actually flies in the face of the very reason that old worlds are not a problem, because as you said, tarantulas, and old worlds ARE tarantulas. No, they're not aggressive, but when they can shoot back around at quick speeds to the point that they enable themselves into a defensive position by way of being on a predator that's much larger than them, they BECOME defensive, and those fangs go down.
> 
> "Their venom tends to be stronger than many other NWs, but they are still a NW T. The word purist doesn't fit here"
> 
> ...


Sorry, by classifying p pirminias behavior as insignificant because they are from the new world.


----------



## viper69 (May 13, 2017)

BishopiMaster said:


> And that's a good point also, a Tapi wouldn't be good for her either as she has exclaimed that she is reluctant to transition to OW t's, and anything by behavior. "Everything you mentioned is found in other NW t's". When you are referring to a small subset to invalidate my argument, then that's not representational of the vast majority of new world T's. The vast majority of new world t's are not fast and aggressive, nor have the venom potency of psalmopoeus species such as p irminia. Your argument for "tarantulas are not aggressive, they keep to themselves, they are defensive, man is aggressive" actually flies in the face of the very reason that old worlds are not a problem, because as you said, tarantulas, and old worlds ARE tarantulas. No, they're not aggressive, but when they can shoot back around at quick speeds to the point that they enable themselves into a defensive position by way of being on a predator that's much larger than them, they BECOME defensive, and those fangs go down.
> 
> "Their venom tends to be stronger than many other NWs, but they are still a NW T. The word purist doesn't fit here"
> 
> ...


OW aren't a problem-- not sure what you mean by that. NWs aren't a "problem" either. In either case, OW are more defensive generally than NWs, but not aggressive.

I was only pointing out there are other NW Ts that have some of the characteristics the Psalmo genus has, nothing more.

In all cases, including Psalmo, those Ts are NW, it's a SCIENTIFIC fact. If you don't understand that, I suggest you see where they are from. Last I checked that part of the world was in fact the New World

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Grimmdreadly (May 13, 2017)

Rachel C said:


> I currently have 5 tarantulas, mostly terrestrial, 1 arboreal. I am looking for some suggestions on new additions. What are your favorite species to keep? Trying to keep it affordable. Thanks guys!


T.Gigas
P. Cambridgi
P.Irminia
Or you can get really adventurous
P.fasciata
P. Miranda
P.tigrinawesseli

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## BishopiMaster (May 13, 2017)

viper69 said:


> OW aren't a problem-- not sure what you mean by that. NWs aren't a "problem" either. In either case, OW are more defensive generally than NWs, but not aggressive.
> 
> I was only pointing out there are other NW Ts that have some of the characteristics the Psalmo genus has, nothing more.
> 
> In all cases, including Psalmo, those Ts are NW, it's a SCIENTIFIC fact. If you don't understand that, I suggest you see where they are from. Last I checked that part of the world was in fact the New World


I think you're missing the point, I'm not opposing the fact that psalms are new world, I'm saying that despite them "NW", they are fast, aggressive, and hot, NW or not, and this is an exercise in semantics for what constitutes the independent factor of why OWs are a problem FOR the op which is speed, aggression, and venom. You say they're not aggressive, call it what you will, at the end of the day when the spider finds itself in your path regardless of why it was there, they tend to defend themselves. 

"OW aren't a problem-- not sure what you mean by that. NWs aren't a "problem" either. In either case, OW are more defensive generally than NWs, but not aggressive."

You also seem to be arguing from the viewpoint of old world tarantulas themselves, without considering the OP's reluctance to acquire tarantulas of that nature, the point is not whether or not OW's in and of themselves are a "problem", it's that the OP has expressed their nature to abstain from tarantulas of that nature, and when you have other tarantulas, NW or not, such as psalm irminia, which embody those same characteristics, albeit not quite at the same scale, you are doing the OP a disservice by providing them a false sense of security.

Reactions: Disagree 2


----------



## JJC (May 13, 2017)

GBB is a must have...looks, visibility and great webbers. 
M. balfouri is an awesome T but definitely on the pricy side.
G. pulchra gets another vote from me. Mine is always out and about and, as others have said, the jet black look is really stunning.
G. pulchripes are also nice.
And -- you can never have enough Avics (or whatever they may be now classified as).
Good luck!

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## The Grym Reaper (May 13, 2017)

BishopiMaster said:


> I'm saying that despite them "NW", they are fast, aggressive, and hot, NW or not, and this is an exercise in semantics for what constitutes the independent factor of why OWs are a problem FOR the op which is speed, aggression, and venom.


You're pretty much just arguing for the sake of it now as well as putting words in the OP's mouth, aside from only mentioning currently wanting a species with a bit less attitude than an OW (there's a pretty wide scope here) when you pointed out her collection thus far was made up solely of NW's (see highlighted below), one of the species she was considering is an OW, (see highlighted in the quote at the end below) which suggests to me that she has no problem with working towards getting one eventually so a P. cambridgei/irminia/etc. would be a logical step to that end (more attitude than an Avic, less than an OBT... Although she's already whittled it down to 2 of the species in the list quoted below so this is pretty much irrelevant by now).

- Sure, Psalmos are fast but, to be honest, there's no such thing as a slow arboreal and, believe it or not, there are faster NW terrestrials (I don't even care that I'm cherry-picking here, the entire Ephebopus genus would dust a Psalmo, they are insanely fast).
- They are not aggressive, they can be defensive (argue semantics all you like but they do not go out of their way to attack people, biting is a last resort, even for species that lack urticating setae) but that's down to the individual (by B. hamorii makes my P. irminia look like a kitten), I could rattle off a list of NW species that are generally much more defensive than any Psalmo.
- They are not "hot" (that you even considering them so is laughable), don't get me wrong, a bite would probably ruin your day but that's about the worst of it unless you have a severe allergic reaction, bites from actual OW species can and do mess people up for weeks afterwards even if they don't have to go to the hospital.



Rachel C said:


> *I have exclusively stuck to NW's because I'm new and I wanted to tackle a few hardier species with a bit less attitude first.* I have considered an LP but I'm loving my avic and am also looking into more arboreals.





Rachel C said:


> I'll give you guys all a list of ones that I'm heavily considering:
> GBB
> C. versicolor
> A. purpurea
> ...

Reactions: Agree 2 | Optimistic 1


----------



## BishopiMaster (May 14, 2017)

The Grym Reaper said:


> You're pretty much just arguing for the sake of it now as well as putting words in the OP's mouth, aside from only mentioning currently wanting a species with a bit less attitude than an OW (there's a pretty wide scope here) when you pointed out her collection thus far was made up solely of NW's (see highlighted below), one of the species she was considering is an OW, (see highlighted in the quote at the end below) which suggests to me that she has no problem with working towards getting one eventually so a P. cambridgei/irminia/etc. would be a logical step to that end (more attitude than an Avic, less than an OBT... Although she's already whittled it down to 2 of the species in the list quoted below so this is pretty much irrelevant by now).
> 
> - Sure, Psalmos are fast but, to be honest, there's no such thing as a slow arboreal and, believe it or not, there are faster NW terrestrials (I don't even care that I'm cherry-picking here, the entire Ephebopus genus would dust a Psalmo, they are insanely fast).
> - They are not aggressive, they can be defensive (argue semantics all you like but they do not go out of their way to attack people, biting is a last resort, even for species that lack urticating setae) but that's down to the individual (by B. hamorii makes my P. irminia look like a kitten), I could rattle off a list of NW species that are generally much more defensive than any Psalmo.
> - They are not "hot" (that you even considering them so is laughable), don't get me wrong, a bite would probably ruin your day but that's about the worst of it unless you have a severe allergic reaction, bites from actual OW species can and do mess people up for weeks afterwards even if they don't have to go to the hospital.


"You're pretty much just arguing for the sake of it now as well as putting words in the OP's mouth."

"You caught me. I have exclusively stuck to OW's because I'm new and I wanted to tackle a few hardier species with a bit less attitude first."

That is direct from the OP, the keyword sir is reluctant, not won't

- They are not aggressive, they can be defensive (argue semantics all you like but they do not go out of their way to attack people, biting is a last resort, even for species that lack urticating setae)

Nah, you're the one arguing semantics here by saying because they do not initiate by being "aggressive", it's irrelevant, the real point here is that they can find themselves in that position.

It is interesting that you say that i am arguing for the sake of arguing, when your argument most likely stems from your love of old world tarantulas, because, why not just go with the flow of along the lines of what the OP is leaning towards?

On the top of p Irminia venom being laughable...


"The next day, he wasn't vomitting, but he was having muscle spasms in his arm and hand. He said it felt as if he couldn't bend his arm fully. Within 3 days all symptoms cleared up, but he said he still felt weak and achy for a few days... (http://arachnoboards.com/threads/psalmopoeus-irminia.5669/)"


"Since their venom is more on the strong side (very painful since the three Vanillotoxins within the venom target the same neuronal receptor that capsaicin does (the alkaloid from hot chili peppers , also known as TRPV1 which causes the burning sensation)) and can cause systemic reactions like vomitting, sweating, lightheadedness and muscle-spasms for a couple days.http://arachnoboards.com/threads/a-closer-look-at-psalmopoeus-irminia-venezuelan-suntiger.280577/" (while yes, it's cambrigei, it's still a psalm) (https://neurophilosophy.wordpress.c...a-toxin-turns-up-the-heat-on-sensory-neurons/)

So, laughable? that's a reach, please do note that psalms are not just, right in the middle of NW and OW, they are incredibly fast as well, also, the statement that there's no such thing as a slow arboreal i is an appeal to futility fallacy and it's factually incorrect, especially when you consider the relative speed of something like an avic vs a psalm, the fact that you are not, at the very least, paying the psalm it's hotter status, and it's speed, is not only incorrect, but it's irresponsible.

Reactions: Funny 2


----------



## Timc (May 14, 2017)

7.5 is the line for the word "semantics" being used in this thread.

Reactions: Funny 2 | Love 1


----------



## viper69 (May 14, 2017)

BishopiMaster said:


> I think you're missing the point, I'm not opposing the fact that psalms are new world, I'm saying that despite them "NW", they are fast, aggressive, and hot, NW or not, and this is an exercise in semantics for what constitutes the independent factor of why OWs are a problem FOR the op which is speed, aggression, and venom. You say they're not aggressive, call it what you will, at the end of the day when the spider finds itself in your path regardless of why it was there, they tend to defend themselves.
> 
> "OW aren't a problem-- not sure what you mean by that. NWs aren't a "problem" either. In either case, OW are more defensive generally than NWs, but not aggressive."
> 
> You also seem to be arguing from the viewpoint of old world tarantulas themselves, without considering the OP's reluctance to acquire tarantulas of that nature, the point is not whether or not OW's in and of themselves are a "problem", it's that the OP has expressed their nature to abstain from tarantulas of that nature, and when you have other tarantulas, NW or not, such as psalm irminia, which embody those same characteristics, albeit not quite at the same scale, you are doing the OP a disservice by providing them a false sense of security.


A few things...

1. My initial comment was direct to you, and not to the OP. Your original statements seemed to indicate that MAYBE you thought they were OW Ts. I wasn't the only the person who thought your words were not clear.

2. You seem to be quite confused on the difference between aggressive and defensive. If an animal goes out of its way to attack something for no reason, that's usually and act of aggression (there are some exceptions), like when a person walks up to someone and shoots their brains out.
Alternatively when someone has a home invasion for example, and kills someone, it's typically viewed as a defensive behavior. See the difference, I can't imagine you won't.

3. I'm not addressing the OP's comments, just yours. I understand what you are saying regarding disservice. That would be true IF I was suggesting to the OP that s/he get a Psalmo. However, I was never suggesting that, nor was I writing to the OP. I was writing to you  Hence why you were quoted, and the OP wasn't, make sense?


----------



## viper69 (May 14, 2017)

The Grym Reaper said:


> there's no such thing as a slow arboreal and, believe it or not, there are faster NW terrestrials


My A. minatrix can run circles around me. One time she was "out", and on a stick I was holding, she did a nice 720 rotation before I could react and came to a complete halt, it was amazing.



The Grym Reaper said:


> (I don't even care that I'm cherry-picking here, the entire Ephebopus genus would dust a Psalmo, they are insanely fast).


So true on Eph!! My Blue Fangs were insanely fast for any terrestrials.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## BishopiMaster (May 14, 2017)

1. So youre basically extrapolating off text, okay.

2. Your analogy is simple and you misunderstand my point. By virtue of the tarantula finding itself in a position where it has found itself due to its speed, such as bolting onto your arm, and sensing that it is on a living person much bigger than it, it can become defensive, and this is magnified with the faster, more skittish t's such as psalms and on up to OW's,

3. You fail to understand the implications of your opinions, by you arguing the meaning of nw vs ow, without acknowledging the other factors such as venom effect and speed, you are doing a disservice.

Reactions: Funny 2


----------



## Andrea82 (May 14, 2017)

@Rachel C 
To circumvent the discussion on Psalmopoeus above;
They are fast, and their bites hurt, but generally won't send you to the hospital. 
Another characteristic is that they move in a way that can make you think 'hey, this isn't so bad', and then they bolt on you, so be alert at all times if you decide to go with a member of this genus. Out of this genus I think P.cambridgei is the best option since they are out more, aren't as defensive as P.irminia and are good eaters. 

However, considering what you currently keep, I'd suggest getting a faster terrestrial first, like GBB, or a terrestrial with a bit more attitude like A.geniculata or P.cancerides. 

I'd hold off on the P.murinus and Poecilotheria species as absolutely nothing in your current collection prepares you for these species. 
They are fast and defensive and have a venom that can ruin your week, or month. 
IF you decide to go with either species, please consider this: 





And this:

Reactions: Like 2 | Helpful 2 | Love 1 | Award 1


----------



## viper69 (May 14, 2017)

BishopiMaster said:


> 1. So youre basically extrapolating off text, okay.
> 
> 2. Your analogy is simple and you misunderstand my point. By virtue of the tarantula finding itself in a position where it has found itself due to its speed, such as bolting onto your arm, and sensing that it is on a living person much bigger than it, it can become defensive, and this is magnified with the faster, more skittish t's such as psalms and on up to OW's,
> 
> 3. You fail to understand the implications of your opinions, by you arguing the meaning of nw vs ow, without acknowledging the other factors such as venom effect and speed, you are doing a disservice.


1. No I'm reading text, myself and another board member read your words, there was no extrapolating. It seemed you weren't sure, case closed.

2. My analogy was to make a point, ie the difference between aggressive and defensive, because you have used those words as one in the same in your posts. They are not the same thing at all.  You seem to have taken my analogy too literally.

3. The meaning of NW and OW is simply where the Ts are found geographically, case closed. This is not something up for debate as you continue to do, I am not arguing anything, merely pointing out the fact, ie the difference between OW and NW, which is decided by 1 simple FACT.

A disservice is using aggressive and defensive interchangeably.

*If someone found a tarantula that lived in Africa, had urticating setae and was as docile as E. sp. Red, the world know it as an OW T, but would you call it a NW T?*

*Conversely, if a T was found in Utah, with the hottest venom, most defensive behavior and lacked urticating setae, it would still be a NW T, like a Psalmo. *


I'm doing no one a disservice at all. At no point did I recommend the OP getting a Psalmo, you seem to THINK that I did with some magical thinking you have. Rather than rely on magic, please show me where I specifically told the OP to get an OW or a Psalmo.....

I have many times over the course of many years here advocated the ladder system using Psalmo's as jumping point to OWs.

You are hilarious.

Reactions: Like 4


----------



## Chris LXXIX (May 14, 2017)

@BishopiMaster 

No one deny the fact that, _P.cambridgei_ especially, are somewhat 'Pokies bastard sons' with a lot in common with OW's arboreal than genus _Avicularia _has, but they are NW _Theraphosidae_.

As far as their level of defensiveness they aren't that bad at all. While I wouldn't suggest to Rachel C one, now (is better to try first certain NW a bit speedy, IMO) is incredible the 'curtain' of Myth that sometimes jumps out behind a _P.cambridgei_ (hands down probably one of the most hardy and easy to keep arboreal ever).

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1


----------



## Chris LXXIX (May 14, 2017)

However another thing that is incredible for me is to always view NW _Theraphosidae _as more "calmer". How that's possible?
_
Megaphobema_ _robustum _try to literally kick everything that moves (they prefer to do that 90 out of 100 instead of bite) and this is a clearly signal of being defensive.

I had a _Phormictopus cancerides _that was by far worst (better for my views ) than a lot of OW's I have.

Genus _Ephebopus_, if they wants, can be very nervous as well.

Certain _P.irminia_ are by far more defensive and skittish than certain _Poecilotheria_... but there's a lot of those examples... sometimes I think that the whole NW "world", at 360°, is highly underestimated.

It's not always a matter of kicking setae VS potent venom bites.

Reactions: Agree 3


----------



## kevinlowl (May 14, 2017)

BishopiMaster said:


> I mean this is basically semantics, they are NWS, they are "from" the NW, but they are very much an old world by behavior


If Columbus actually landed on India, does that make India part of the New World?

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


----------



## viper69 (May 14, 2017)

Chris LXXIX said:


> Certain _P.irminia_ are by far more defensive and skittish than certain _Poecilotheria_... but there's a lot of those examples... sometimes I think that the whole NW "world", at 360°, is highly underestimated.


Agreed on underestimated, and just like you point out there are exceptions to every "rule". Just like a member on here a few years posted had the most defensive E sp Red, and not by that Ts standards, by anyone's actually. The slightest disturbance and it was in threat pose w/fangs, like some OWs, but of course being from S. America, it's a NW

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


----------



## BishopiMaster (May 14, 2017)

viper69 said:


> 1. No I'm reading text, myself and another board member read your words, there was no extrapolating. It seemed you weren't sure, case closed.
> 
> 2. My analogy was to make a point, ie the difference between aggressive and defensive, because you have used those words as one in the same in your posts. They are not the same thing at all.  You seem to have taken my analogy too literally.
> 
> ...


I.  Case closed, okay.

2. You fail to understand that just because they are different does not mean the tarantulas fangs do not go down not finding itself in that position, just because the tarantula does not initiate does not mean it does not find itself in a position, where the fangs go down. And thats the case for any animal, 90% of animals are not "aggressive" in and of themselves, they find themselves in those positions, and more often when they are fast, like psalms.

3. Im not saying that psalms are not new world, i am saying in spite of this, that they are fast, and hotter than your typical new world. And you circling back around to a simple matter of geographical location, if you honestly believe that is the only thing that matters, then you are intellectually dishonest, and thats me giving you the benefit of the doubt.

Thanks for your relativism lecture but ill pass, you asking me to point out where you said exactly not to get a psalm is both you being pedantic and failing to understand the false sense of security you give the op by slapping NW on a psalm while being aware of the implications of that term. Regardless of you specifically mentioning it or not.

I also dont feel as if your track record here is relevant but that is good of you to do, so thanks for your service 
.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Chris LXXIX (May 14, 2017)

BishopiMaster said:


> 3. Im not saying that psalms are not new world, i am saying in spite of this, that they are fast, and hotter than your typical new world.


You are right, their venom is quite potent... genus _Psalmopoeus _are T's no one would love to get tagged by. But let's not forget that other NW T's venom are nasty as well :-s

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## JJC (May 14, 2017)

I'm relatively new to "the Board" but the side threads that take over the original conversation are a real PIA. The OP queried for recommendations for her next T. And now we have a back and forth about NW vs OW, bite reports, etc. Don't get me wrong, the information is certainly useful, but it goes way beyond the scope of the original post.  Threads are free...start a new one, succinctly answering the original inquiry will make for a much more efficient forum.

Reactions: Agree 4 | Optimistic 2


----------



## mistertim (May 14, 2017)

lol is @Rachel C even reading this anymore?

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2 | Optimistic 1


----------



## Timc (May 14, 2017)

mistertim said:


> lol is @Rachel C even reading this anymore?


Highly doubtful.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## BishopiMaster (May 14, 2017)

JJC said:


> I'm relatively new to "the Board" but the side threads that take over the original conversation are a real PIA. The OP queried for recommendations for her next T. And now we have a back and forth about NW vs OW, bite reports, etc. Don't get me wrong, the information is certainly useful, but it goes way beyond the scope of the original post.  Threads are free...start a new one, succinctly answering the original inquiry will make for a much more efficient forum.


Its not beyond the scope, its about accurate representation of species for someone whos reluctant with ows and similar

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Grimmdreadly (May 14, 2017)

In the end, we should let the OP decide what they want to get and what information they wish to have. If she wants a Psalmopoeus, which is the new world that acts as a bridge between NW and OW, then let her get one. Some people say they would rather have Psalmies than Avics. In the end it's their decision, and a thread full of arguing isn't going to play a part because the OP isn't going to read it.

@Rachel C, Psalmopoeus are amazing. Yes they're a bit fast and potent as far as new worlds go, but if you respect them and prepare for them, they're amazing tarantulas to own. Same goes for Tapnichinaeus. Ultimately the choice is yours.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1 | Award 1 | Lollipop 1


----------



## viper69 (May 15, 2017)

JJC said:


> I'm relatively new to "the Board" but the side threads that take over the original conversation are a real PIA. The OP queried for recommendations for her next T. And now we have a back and forth about NW vs OW, bite reports, etc. Don't get me wrong, the information is certainly useful, but it goes way beyond the scope of the original post.  Threads are free...start a new one, succinctly answering the original inquiry will make for a much more efficient forum.


This happens all the time on forums. I usually turn off my alert for a given thread when threads discuss things I'm not interested in anymore.

Sometimes the most interesting information comes out of a "side" comment, sometimes not.

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## viper69 (May 15, 2017)

BishopiMaster said:


> I.  Case closed, okay.
> 
> 2. You fail to understand that just because they are different does not mean the tarantulas fangs do not go down not finding itself in that position, just because the tarantula does not initiate does not mean it does not find itself in a position, where the fangs go down. And thats the case for any animal, 90% of animals are not "aggressive" in and of themselves, they find themselves in those positions, and more often when they are fast, like psalms.
> 
> ...


I don't think you actually understand what my original comment was about. It's also clear that you think I don't understand your point of view on Psalmo's, which I do. Let me put it below, as I see it, succinctly as possible.

My points: My *only point* was geography determines whether a species is NW or OW. You didn't seem to know/understand that Psalmo's were NW early on when I commented, that their very geography defines OW or NW, NOT their behavior or various traits. This was thought by not just me. That is of course a belief no longer held by me since communicating with you.

You seem to think that my comments about Psalmo's are somehow directed at the OP, when at no point in time were they. Perhaps you thought they were?? I'm not sure how though???

They were only directed at you. If you don't understand that, I can't make it any more abundantly clear.
*
Your 2 main points* I THINK: That despite Psalmo's being a NW T, they have traits that we see in OWs-- obviously! hah. But I don't care, because my only point was they are NW Ts.

*NOT*, they are NW Ts, and that makes them easy to deal. You never read anything like that from me, not here NOR in any other thread.

And 2nd point of yours I THINK: by me saying they are NW, that I'm making them sound as easy to deal with as a B. albo for example

I get the impression you think that because I said they were NW Ts, that they are no different than any other NW T. I have never said nor implied that. What I have written is that there are other Ts which have some of a Psalmo's characteristics.

Funny, you know what type of T I have a hard time shipping off to some of my breeder friends, Avics, not irminia. Irminia are easy. Avics are a major pain in the rear.

I owned 2 members of the Psalmo genus, including a few irminia too. However, they are still NW Ts. Does that mean you treat them like a B. albo or an Avic, no it doesn't. As I said previously, and I will say again for you, I believe in the ladder system. Case closed.


I really have no idea what you are writing in Point number 2 I quoted of yours. I actually thought a T never used it's fangs for anything 

I've owned many OWs, from H macs, Poki's and other fast Asian arboreals, and African terrestrials. I know a bit about their behavior and all of what you mentioned   That was not something I "fail to understand", that's plain crazy talk I read. I actually thought fangs were for show.


----------



## cold blood (May 15, 2017)

viper69 said:


> Sometimes the most interesting information comes out of a "side" comment, sometimes not.


I completely agree.

Reactions: Agree 3 | Lollipop 1


----------



## viper69 (May 15, 2017)

cold blood said:


> I completely agree.


Yeah, a lot of interesting info about Ts, such as how to tell a species from another, has all come out various conversations that have nothing to do with an OPs post, or the original topic of my email discussion with arachnologists.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


----------



## Rachel C (May 15, 2017)

Currently just got out of the hospital to see this. I had previously said I'm not as concerned with venom intensity or aggression anymore. Like i previously stated I wanted to start with some more beginner friendly species, but now I'm open. I don't handle or open enclosures unless it is necessary and i don't poke/prode/p-off my T's. They get left alone to do whatever they wanna do.

Reactions: Like 2 | Love 1


----------



## Grimmdreadly (May 15, 2017)

Rachel C said:


> Currently just got out of the hospital to see this. I had previously said I'm not as concerned with venom intensity or aggression anymore. Like i previously stated I wanted to start with some more beginner friendly species, but now I'm open. I don't handle or open enclosures unless it is necessary and i don't poke/prode/p-off my T's. They get left alone to do whatever they wanna do.


We're glad you're feeling a bit better. Sorry to hear you were in the hospital. 

That's the right idea to have when it comes to ts. They're best to be seen(when we can see them) and not touched.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


----------



## viper69 (May 15, 2017)

Rachel C said:


> Like i previously stated I wanted to start with some more beginner friendly species


Glad you are feeling better. To elaborate on my first response to you....

Ceratogyrus is the genus most experienced T owners recommend. I only recommended I. mira because they are equally as good as I own an near AF I raised from a sling. In fact the I. mira is easier because it's more of a pethole, which is a turn off for many. However, I found the trapdoor aspect fascinating. The behaviors I have observed were fascinating and informative.

I've owned 4 species of Ceratogyrus, no difference between them re: husbandry or disposition IME. They were all equally as fast.

I typically recommend terrestrials OWs as a first time OW, because arboreals bring in a 3rd dimension that is at times a bit too much for some people. My recommendations are for the average keeper.

Reactions: Like 3


----------



## BishopiMaster (May 15, 2017)

viper69 said:


> I don't think you actually understand what my original comment was about. It's also clear that you think I don't understand your point of view on Psalmo's, which I do. Let me put it below, as I see it, succinctly as possible.
> 
> My points: My *only point* was geography determines whether a species is NW or OW. You didn't seem to know/understand that Psalmo's were NW early on when I commented, that their very geography defines OW or NW, NOT their behavior or various traits. This was thought by not just me. That is of course a belief no longer held by me since communicating with you.
> 
> ...


No, you still dont get it, you are married to geographical location and labels, and do not understand the way that labels can paint things in a way that may need further clarity, further clarity than you have attempted to give. In a way that is betraying. You are also married to your vector being a matter of who your comment is directed towards rather than its effect, and have to see the bigger picture. P irminia are still faster than Avics, thats not even up for debate, and you cant limit that singular shipping experience without realizing what youre basically saying here, which is the common theme with you.
Point number two is the fact that animals, most of them, are not actually intrinsically "aggressive", but with tarantulas its where they find themselves in those positions to facilitate that action of biting. When you perform cage maintenance, it is not intrusive when thw tarantula sits in one place, when they bolt out in a position in which you have to coax them, they become defensive.
I think its abundantly clear that no tarantula charges you head first with intent to bite, but its when they cross paths that they do, and faster ones are a bigger issue with that.

If venom nor speed is not an issue for OP then i highly recommend the idiothele mira, though an LP is still a wonderful tarantula for anyone


----------



## The Grym Reaper (May 15, 2017)

Rachel C said:


> Currently just got out of the hospital to see this. I had previously said I'm not as concerned with venom intensity or aggression anymore. Like i previously stated I wanted to start with some more beginner friendly species, but now I'm open. I don't handle or open enclosures unless it is necessary and i don't poke/prode/p-off my T's. They get left alone to do whatever they wanna do.


Glad you're feeling better (or, if you dislike hospitals as much as I do, feeling well enough to escape).

That's a pretty good attitude to have in regards to keeping, keep any disturbances to a minimum and just watch them do their thing.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 1


----------



## viper69 (May 15, 2017)

BishopiMaster said:


> No, you still dont get it, you are married to geographical location and labels, and do not understand the way that labels can paint things in a way that may need further clarity, further clarity than you have attempted to give. In a way that is betraying. You are also married to your vector being a matter of who your comment is directed towards rather than its effect, and have to see the bigger picture. P irminia are still faster than Avics, thats not even up for debate, and you cant limit that singular shipping experience without realizing what youre basically saying here, which is the common theme with you.
> Point number two is the fact that animals, most of them, are not actually intrinsically "aggressive", but with tarantulas its where they find themselves in those positions to facilitate that action of biting. When you perform cage maintenance, it is not intrusive when thw tarantula sits in one place, when they bolt out in a position in which you have to coax them, they become defensive.
> I think its abundantly clear that no tarantula charges you head first with intent to bite, but its when they cross paths that they do, and faster ones are a bigger issue with that.
> 
> If venom nor speed is not an issue for OP then i highly recommend the idiothele mira, though an LP is still a wonderful tarantula for anyone



We have a different way of viewing forum communication, that's all.

Actually, all my Avics are more difficult than any of my OWs, except for my H mac. My OWs have always been more than happy to move from Pt A to Pt B at lightning speed. I use their behavior to my advantage. An Avic, they are stubborn as can be, and will do their best to not go anywhere, it's rather amusing. You can't force them, it's like hearding cats. It's easy to get a Psalmo for example to go into a funnel, it's near "impossible" to get my Avics to do the same. It's really funny.

Psalmo's are NW, that's a fact.

Psalmo's are an excellent species for the ladder system-- which takes into account* EVERYTHING* you have been writing to me about Psalmo's that I already knew like 10 YEARS ago, jeez. I guess you haven't seen me write that the past 2 times to you????

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


----------



## Jason B (May 15, 2017)

BishopiMaster said:


> No, you still dont get it, you are married to geographical location and labels, and do not understand the way that labels can paint things in a way that may need further clarity, further clarity than you have attempted to give. In a way that is betraying. You are also married to your vector being a matter of who your comment is directed towards rather than its effect, and have to see the bigger picture. P irminia are still faster than Avics, thats not even up for debate, and you cant limit that singular shipping experience without realizing what youre basically saying here, which is the common theme with you.
> Point number two is the fact that animals, most of them, are not actually intrinsically "aggressive", but with tarantulas its where they find themselves in those positions to facilitate that action of biting. When you perform cage maintenance, it is not intrusive when thw tarantula sits in one place, when they bolt out in a position in which you have to coax them, they become defensive.
> I think its abundantly clear that no tarantula charges you head first with intent to bite, but its when they cross paths that they do, and faster ones are a bigger issue with that.
> 
> If venom nor speed is not an issue for OP then i highly recommend the idiothele mira, though an LP is still a wonderful tarantula for anyone


Everytime I've read one of your posts about how Psalms should be labeled as OW not because there actually from the old world but because they display some traits shared with true OW Ts. I think of the poor guy who reads your some of your posts here and thinks because his first arboreal was a P. Cam and since it might as well be considered an OW arboreal he goes out and gets himself the cheapest ow arboreal he can find. Which is most likely gonna be an H. Mac or a S. Cal, but hey he already has experience with Psalms and since they might as well be considered OW they can't be that much worse.

While I understand thats not what you mean, putting Psalms on the same as the true OW Arboreal some of which can most likely kill a pet if they escape is much worse. Then saying Psalms make a good bridge between NW and OW because you get some of the speed and attitude without a bite that you'll feel for the next few weeks.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## viper69 (May 15, 2017)

Jason B said:


> Then saying Psalms make a good bridge between NW and OW because you get some of the speed and attitude without a bite that you'll feel for the next few weeks.


I would agree that Psalmo's make a good bridge for someone who is interested in OWs but isn't quite ready. Many of us on the forum who believe in the ladder system recommended Psalmo genus as the one to start with. Then after that a Ceratogyrus.

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## BishopiMaster (May 15, 2017)

Jason B said:


> Everytime I've read one of your posts about how Psalms should be labeled as OW not because there actually from the old world but because they display some traits shared with true OW Ts. I think of the poor guy who reads your some of your posts here and thinks because his first arboreal was a P. Cam and since it might as well be considered an OW arboreal he goes out and gets himself the cheapest ow arboreal he can find. Which is most likely gonna be an H. Mac or a S. Cal, but hey he already has experience with Psalms and since they might as well be considered OW they can't be that much worse.
> 
> While I understand thats not what you mean, putting Psalms on the same as the true OW Arboreal some of which can most likely kill a pet if they escape is much worse. Then saying Psalms make a good bridge between NW and OW because you get some of the speed and attitude without a bite that you'll feel for the next few weeks.


Did you even read my posts? I was not the one who suggested psalms as a bridge. Nor have i said psalms should be labelef as OW, i am saying, despite being nw: text text text, get it?

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## BishopiMaster (May 15, 2017)

viper69 said:


> We have a different way of viewing forum communication, that's all.
> 
> Actually, all my Avics are more difficult than any of my OWs, except for my H mac. My OWs have always been more than happy to move from Pt A to Pt B at lightning speed. I use their behavior to my advantage. An Avic, they are stubborn as can be, and will do their best to not go anywhere, it's rather amusing. You can't force them, it's like hearding cats. It's easy to get a Psalmo for example to go into a funnel, it's near "impossible" to get my Avics to do the same. It's really funny.
> 
> ...


Yeah, keyword, at lightning speed, the fact your psalms herd like sheep because you can direct their terminal velocity is not reliable for someone else. Again, not saying psalms are new, despite being nw, are the keywords here, you again prove to being married to labels.


----------



## Jason B (May 15, 2017)

BishopiMaster said:


> Sorry, overall, the p. Irminia is really more of an old world, everything about it is old world


I have read every one of your posts including this one.



viper69 said:


> I would agree that Psalmo's make a good bridge for someone who is interested in OWs but isn't quite ready. Many of us on the forum who believe in the ladder system recommended Psalmo genus as the one to start with. Then after that a Ceratogyrus.


I agree with you completely and should have been more clear about that, what I said was more to the comment



BishopiMaster said:


> So, laughable? that's a reach, please do note that psalms are not just, right in the middle of NW and OW, they are incredibly fast as well, also, the statement that there's no such thing as a slow arboreal i is an appeal to futility fallacy and it's factually incorrect, especially when you consider the relative speed of something like an avic vs a psalm, the fact that you are not, at the very least, paying the psalm it's hotter status, and it's speed, is not only incorrect, but it's irresponsible.


I personally feel it is much more irresponsible to make statement like the first message I quoted, because the ramifications can be much more severe. When i was still cutting my teeth on defensive arboreal species I spent alot of time researching what T I wanted to get, and the problem for me was I found alot of bad info that led me to believe that while a pokie bite is significantly worse then an irminia bite, Irminia are more likely to bite. So I incorrectly decided on getting a Pokie a P. Regalis to be exact. The things is what led me to the idea a pokie would be better was the fact that irminia can be more defensive so more likely to bite. When in reality, where I was in my experience both species could have bitten me but a bite from an Irminia pain is gonna last a few days at best. A bite from a pokie I would have likely felt for a few weeks. 

P. Irminia can be a good bridge to OW Ts, one I wish I had taken. They are certainly one of the more potent NW arboreals. But they are simply not on the same page as other ow ts when it comes to speed and venom potency.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## The Grym Reaper (May 15, 2017)

viper69 said:


> Actually, all my Avics are more difficult than any of my OWs, except for my H mac. My OWs have always been more than happy to move from Pt A to Pt B at lightning speed. I use their behavior to my advantage. An Avic, they are stubborn as can be, and will do their best to not go anywhere, it's rather amusing. You can't force them, it's like hearding cats. It's easy to get a Psalmo for example to go into a funnel, it's near "impossible" to get my Avics to do the same. It's really funny.


I fully agree with this, getting a Psalmopoeus from point A to point B is a piece of cake compared to getting an Avic to do the same, if you can even get the Avic to bloody move it still won't go where you want it to, it's simultaneously hilarious and an utter pain in the arse lol.



viper69 said:


> I would agree that Psalmo's make a good bridge for someone who is interested in OWs but isn't quite ready. Many of us on the forum who believe in the ladder system recommended Psalmo genus as the one to start with.


This was what I was planning on doing before someone threw a spanner in the works by sending me an effing Chilobrachys huahini as a freebie

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Funny 1


----------



## PanzoN88 (May 15, 2017)

I have 14 so I am not listing them all, but my recommendations are: 

B. Emilia (I have two)

If you are really, really confident then I hesitantly recommend P. Cancerides (they are defensive, fast, but fantastic eaters)

And last but definitely not least E. Sp. Red (I have a mature female and an immature male) in my opinion the E. Sp. Red is the greatest species in the hobby.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Chris LXXIX (May 15, 2017)

BishopiMaster said:


> No, you still dont get it, you are married to geographical location and labels, and do not understand the way that labels can paint things in a way that may need further clarity, further clarity than you have attempted to give. In a way that is betraying. You are also married to your vector being a matter of who your comment is directed towards rather than its effect, and have to see the bigger picture. P irminia are still faster than Avics, thats not even up for debate, and you cant limit that singular shipping experience without realizing what youre basically saying here, which is the common theme with you.
> Point number two is the fact that animals, most of them, are not actually intrinsically "aggressive", but with tarantulas its where they find themselves in those positions to facilitate that action of biting. When you perform cage maintenance, it is not intrusive when thw tarantula sits in one place, when they bolt out in a position in which you have to coax them, they become defensive.
> I think its abundantly clear that no tarantula charges you head first with intent to bite, but its when they cross paths that they do, and faster ones are a bigger issue with that.
> 
> If venom nor speed is not an issue for OP then i highly recommend the idiothele mira, though an LP is still a wonderful tarantula for anyone


Man, one moment geographical locations aren't just mere details, uh :-s

No one here says that T's are 'aggressive'.

Doesn't exist something even near a "slow" arboreal. A nonsense. Every arboreals are fast as light. Actually, the supposed more faster (genus _Tapinauchenius_) aren't the more venomous/defensive, and btw the "speed" thing is a detail. If 'Psalmo' and 'Taps' are faster than 'Pokies' doesn't mean that 'Pokies' are slow.

About the fact that OW's could harm other pets like "Terminators, no matter"... this is an issue covered by a nice curtain of Myth. 

Sure, if the pets are hamster or else, but cats... those natural born predators? Ah.

Check how cats, 100% Ninja, deals with spooders -- badass Nippon theme included.

And the spoder wasn't a slow pet rock 'Grammo'

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## viper69 (May 15, 2017)

The Grym Reaper said:


> I fully agree with this, getting a Psalmopoeus from point A to point B is a piece of cake compared to getting an Avic to do the same, if you can even get the Avic to bloody move it still won't go where you want it to, it's simultaneously hilarious and an utter pain in the arse lol.
> 
> 
> 
> This was what I was planning on doing before someone threw a spanner in the works by sending me an effing Chilobrachys huahini as a freebie



I totally agree on the Avics. I had a MM purp recently, the MM just spread out all 8 legs over the funnel hole. They have 8 legs to pick a new direction to move, and of course Avics first response is to pull their legs in. Being delicate animals, you can't exactly force them.

Irminia, was easy. My P. pulcher is easy. My Ceratogyrus, mira, and P rufi, easy too. You don't need to force them to move hahah

Seems like you have a new challenge

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Grimmdreadly (May 15, 2017)

The Grym Reaper said:


> I fully agree with this, getting a Psalmopoeus from point A to point B is a piece of cake compared to getting an Avic to do the same, if you can even get the Avic to bloody move it still won't go where you want it to, it's simultaneously hilarious and an utter pain in the arse lol.
> 
> 
> 
> This was what I was planning on doing before someone threw a spanner in the works by sending me an effing Chilobrachys huahini as a freebie


I wish I got a free C.Huahini

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Jason B (May 15, 2017)

Chris LXXIX said:


> About the fact that OW's could harm other pets like "Terminators, no matter"... this is an issue covered by a nice curtain of Myth.


When I made the reference of pets I was refering to smallers pets and possible dogs since they have like to sniff new things. Wild cats are technically an invasive species and have done alot of damage I don't consider a cat in the same regard to say a puppy or even a small dog. I've been wondering how my brothers pitt would react to a bite from an S. Cal but I'd rather not find out.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## viper69 (May 15, 2017)

BishopiMaster said:


> Yeah, keyword, at lightning speed, the fact your psalms herd like sheep because you can direct their terminal velocity is not reliable for someone else. Again, not saying psalms are new, despite being nw, are the keywords here, you again prove to being married to labels.



Where in my quote did I mention your Ts, or someone else's...I didn't. I was speaking of mine.


I never said what I do (which I haven't described in any detail) is reliable for someone else, please provide where I have specifically written that. 

I THINK you are reading far too much into what is written by me. Though in point of fact, I do know what I do for Psalmos is reliable for someone else haha , however it may not be reliable for you or anyone else. 

Married to labels, no, married to facts yep. Yeah it's hard to tell the rest of the world that a NW animal isn't a NW animal when it's from S. America. 

Just like Psalmo's make a good bridge to OWs, not a scientific fact, but a reasonably accepted "fact" by people with common sense.


Color me crazy, but you won't find a soul to agree they are anything else but NW. Does that mean all NWs are the same, NOPE. Have I said they are..NOPE.

If you think I have, you clearly have not read carefully enough, and are assuming far too much in what I have written.

Reactions: Agree 4


----------



## Jason B (May 15, 2017)

Grimmdreadly said:


> I wish I got a free C.Huahini


I got a freebie with the second pokie I bought back in the day. tiny little straw that read H. Maculata. My initial reaction was to pack the vial back up and send it back because my second pokie was just another P. Regalis and I wasn't even ready for another type of pokie let alone something with the reputation of an H. Mac. Unfortunately the sling only last 2 months in my care at the time.


----------



## Chris LXXIX (May 15, 2017)

Jason B said:


> When I made the reference of pets I was refering to smallers pets and possible dogs since they have like to sniff new things. Wild cats are technically an invasive species and have done alot of damage I don't consider a cat in the same regard to say a puppy or even a small dog. I've been wondering how my brothers pitt would react to a bite from an S. Cal but I'd rather not find out.


I wasn't talking directly about you, man, but about the issues I've heard (during time) involving keepers, OW's T's, and their cats/dogs.

I'm the first saying that we need to remain always safe and that our animals shouldn't risk nothing, but at the same time I had the impression that their (cats in particular) ability, predatory agile skill, were always a bit underrated.

My point is, 9 out of 10, in crappy scenario, those that risk are T's, no matter if OW's or not.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## The Grym Reaper (May 15, 2017)

Grimmdreadly said:


> I wish I got a free C.Huahini


I wouldn't have minded if I'd had more experience but I'd only been in the hobby for 5 months at the time (next month marks my first full year of keeping Ts) and I'd only got a P. irminia sling 12 days before that, I could understand giving out free OW species if I'd ordered an OW but the guy sent it out with a frickin' B. emilia lol.

Reactions: Funny 2


----------



## Grimmdreadly (May 15, 2017)

The Grym Reaper said:


> I wouldn't have minded if I'd had more experience but I'd only been in the hobby for 5 months at the time (next month marks my first full year of keeping Ts) and I'd only got a P. irminia sling 12 days before that, I could understand giving out free OW species if I'd ordered an OW but the guy sent it out with a frickin' B. emilia lol.


Thats definitely a miss right there


----------



## Nightstalker47 (May 15, 2017)

@BishopiMaster I get your main point, but I think your overlooking some very important points made in this thread.
OW has nothing to do with an individual's tendencies or defensiveness, it has everything to do with where it originates from, so your argument stemmed from a falsity. 

There is a reason we have words like defensive, flighty, fast or potent. Any and all given species be it OW or NW can be feisty, and none should be taken lightly. OW is not a term that means defensive, or an adjective for the group, and I don't think anyone was trying to mislead the OP. 

You made a valid point on both sides being equally prone to biting, at times. It still doesn't change that they are not OW, and should not be labeled as such, it doesn't make any sense do to so.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## BishopiMaster (May 15, 2017)

viper69 said:


> Where in my quote did I mention your Ts, or someone else's...I didn't. I was speaking of mine.
> 
> 
> I never said what I do (which I haven't described in any detail) is reliable for someone else, please provide where I have specifically written that.
> ...


Just because you didn't say that NWs are all the same does not mean you should not pay the species it respect it deserves with regards to your verbage. Yes, you are married to a binary statement consisting of p irminia being either NW or OW, without really focusing on the far reaching implications of your lack of details, especially for any newcomer.


----------



## The Grym Reaper (May 15, 2017)

viper69 said:


> I totally agree on the Avics. I had a MM purp recently, the MM just spread out all 8 legs over the funnel hole. They have 8 legs to pick a new direction to move, and of course Avics first response is to pull their legs in. Being delicate animals, you can't exactly force them.
> 
> Irminia, was easy. My P. pulcher is easy. My Ceratogyrus, mira, and P rufi, easy too. You don't need to force them to move hahah
> 
> Seems like you have a new challenge


Yeah, when I picked up my first Avic from the pet shop I opted to pack him up as you would for shipping because I had to take 2 buses and a 10min walk to get home and didn't feel comfortable leaving him in the braplast box he was in, little bugger gave me the runaround for about 10mins before I got him in lol.

Believe it or not, my B. hamorii is the biggest pain to rehouse as she spends more time threat posturing and slapping than actually moving anywhere lol.

I opted for somewhat oversized (while still secure) enclosures for the C. huahini to keep rehouses to a bare minimum, it disappears back into its web/burrow if I open an enclosure on the shelf below so I generally don't have to interact with it much, not looking forward to rehousing it when it's bigger though.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


----------



## Kendricks (May 15, 2017)

The Grym Reaper said:


> Believe it or not, my B. hamorii is the biggest pain to rehouse as she spends more time threat posturing and slapping than actually moving anywhere lol.


I still find this incredibly hilarious. 

_*hiss!*
I'm an OBT! *slap*
I'm an OBT from Africa!! *slap*
_
Please, do a video next time!

Reactions: Funny 2


----------



## Little Grey Spider (May 15, 2017)

Rachel C said:


> I currently have 5 tarantulas, mostly terrestrial, 1 arboreal. I am looking for some suggestions on new additions. What are your favorite species to keep? Trying to keep it affordable. Thanks guys!


I say G. pulchripes and/or C. versicolor.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## The Grym Reaper (May 15, 2017)

Kendricks said:


> I still find this incredibly hilarious.
> Please, do a video next time!


She's in her adult enclosure now so unless there's some sort of problem that requires a rehouse then I won't be bothering her unnecessarily but, yeah, if that happens I will make sure get it on video.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Tanner Dzula (May 15, 2017)

BishopiMaster said:


> Are you sure that psalmopoeus is 'arboreal'?


despite 3+ pages of discussions I've now read through. carefully reading every single word, this statement is still confusing me.
what confuses me, if that you have a vast wealth of information on Old Worlds and New Worlds, the details of the species in each and the temperaments and attitudes of each, but i can not for the life of me figure out why you questioned if the genus is Primarily Arboreal or not?




BishopiMaster said:


> Sorry, overall, the p. Irminia is really more of an old world, everything about it is old world


everything about it can be considered _similar_* to an OW except for literally the 1 very thing that makes it OW or not, their Geographical location.

Semantics apply to differences of opinions and what not, but facts are facts.



*keep in mind i am using similar VERY loosely as, despite their skittish and generally defensive behavior and their relative speed, They are literally night and day from what an OW Arboreal can accomplish. I've seen P. Irminia that are more skittish then a Pokie but I've never seen a Irminia that could outspeed or do more damage then a H.Mac, S. Cal, Pokie, ETC. but thats just my experience with it

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


----------



## viper69 (May 15, 2017)

BishopiMaster said:


> Just because you didn't say that NWs are all the same does not mean you should not pay the species it respect it deserves with regards to your verbage. Yes, you are married to a binary statement consisting of p irminia being either NW or OW, without really focusing on the far reaching implications of your lack of details, especially for any newcomer.


You don't have any idea of what you are talking about in regards to what I write. You are clearly not reading all of what I have typed in this conversation with you, that's VERY clear.

The mere fact that you have not acknowledged the 3 times I have mentioned Psalmo's are an excellent bridge species to OW clearly demonstrates you have not read what I have typed.

Perhaps you don't understand my use of bridge species, do you understand that term in this context? Either you do....or you don't.

If you do then:

1. Then you know Ive been in agreement with everything you said regarding that genus and its disposition, speed etc etc that you have been writing. Not because you wrote it, but because they are generally true hahahah jeez
2. You are being obstinate for no reason

If you don't know the term bridge species here:
1. Then ask me or someone, nothing wrong with being ignorant. We are all ignorant of MANY things.


And yes, I like calling a species by NW and OW, because those are facts based on geography.


----------



## viper69 (May 15, 2017)

The Grym Reaper said:


> Yeah, when I picked up my first Avic from the pet shop I opted to pack him up as you would for shipping because I had to take 2 buses and a 10min walk to get home and didn't feel comfortable leaving him in the braplast box he was in, little bugger gave me the runaround for about 10mins before I got him in lol.
> 
> Believe it or not, my B. hamorii is the biggest pain to rehouse as she spends more time threat posturing and slapping than actually moving anywhere lol.
> 
> I opted for somewhat oversized (while still secure) enclosures for the C. huahini to keep rehouses to a bare minimum, it disappears back into its web/burrow if I open an enclosure on the shelf below so I generally don't have to interact with it much, not looking forward to rehousing it when it's bigger though.



I do the same thing w/certain specimens. Not to use labels like OW or NW, clearly that's a BIG problem of epic proportions with far reaching implications, more profound than nuclear weapons or human trafficking, for Bishopimaster .

You def. need to learn your specimen and see who needs what so they feel comfortable for husbandry.

My I mira, she's a peach, easy to work with. My B. boehmei, she's a hellion. She's flicked at me just for putting a cricket in!

Reactions: Funny 3


----------



## The Grym Reaper (May 15, 2017)

viper69 said:


> I do the same thing w/certain specimens. Not to use labels like OW or NW, clearly that's a BIG problem of epic proportions with far reaching implications, more profound than nuclear weapons or human trafficking, for Bishopimaster .
> 
> You def. need to learn your specimen and see who needs what so they feel comfortable for husbandry.
> 
> My I mira, she's a peach, easy to work with. My B. boehmei, she's a hellion. She's flicked at me just for putting a cricket in!


Pah! You and your toxic matrimony of binary species labelling based on geography, it's obviously a spectrum... 

I basically gathered from research that, given the right set up, I would hardly see it and it shouldn't give me too many problems and that seems to have been the case thus far although I am aware that surprise spoder might just try to surprise me one of these days.


----------



## viper69 (May 15, 2017)

The Grym Reaper said:


> Pah! You and your toxic matrimony of binary species labelling based on geography, it's obviously a spectrum...
> 
> I basically gathered from research that, given the right set up, I would hardly see it and it shouldn't give me too many problems and that seems to have been the case thus far although I am aware that surprise spoder might just try to surprise me one of these days.


You are absolutely right, I see Ts in such Black and White classification schemes. It's really the best way for all, esp the Ts. I'd hate to have a NW T of mine mistaken for an OW T. I don't need grumpy Ts 


I can say that specimens can change over time. My GBB and G. pulchripes are good examples. They used to be a bit more reluctant to check in on activity, not so in the past year. Each has become more inquisitive about whatever husbandry I'm doing. No change in cage or anything else.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Chris LXXIX (May 15, 2017)

viper69 said:


> problem of epic proportions


Speaking of 'Epic Proportions', buy the *Goddess *0.1 _Pelinobius muticus _PBUH (Peace Be Upon Her) my man and join us

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## The Grym Reaper (May 15, 2017)

viper69 said:


> *I can say that specimens can change over time.* My GBB and G. pulchripes are good examples. They used to be a bit more reluctant to check in on activity, not so in the past year. Each has become more inquisitive about whatever husbandry I'm doing. No change in cage or anything else.


My B. hamorii is living proof of that, she used to be so docile that she was practically catatonic, not so much nowadays lol.


----------



## The Grym Reaper (May 15, 2017)

Chris LXXIX said:


> Speaking of 'Epic Proportions', buy the *Goddess *0.1 _Pelinobius muticus _PBUH (Peace Be Upon Her) my man and join us


Is there anyone you haven't tried to induct into the cult of Her Resplendent Rear-Leggedness?

Reactions: Love 1


----------



## Chris LXXIX (May 15, 2017)

The Grym Reaper said:


> Is there anyone you haven't tried to induct into the cult of Her Resplendent Rear-Leggedness?


My devoted Brothers and Sisters beated and replaced even 'Hare Krishna' in certain airports: we are everywhere. One day the Church of _Muticology_, dedicated to our Benign Mother and Her teachings, will banish forever this Era of Heresy 

I just need a couple of "Tom Cruise" as sponsor, but that's a detail

Reactions: Love 1


----------



## BishopiMaster (May 15, 2017)

viper69 said:


> You don't have any idea of what you are talking about in regards to what I write. You are clearly not reading all of what I have typed in this conversation with you, that's VERY clear.
> 
> The mere fact that you have not acknowledged the 3 times I have mentioned Psalmo's are an excellent bridge species to OW clearly demonstrates you have not read what I have typed.
> 
> ...


No, you did mention psalms as a bridge species, granted, past the meat of our argument.

Your first rebuttal against me:

"I mean this is basically semantics, they are NWS, they are "from" the NW, but they are very much an old world by behavior"
What about their behavior makes you think that, just curious"<--- vipers first rebuttal

I don't see why you would rebut me with this if you see them as a bridge species, what do you want? "They're in the middle"??

Then you sort of stray off being hell bent on exclaiming that psalms are NW, along with everyone else, when I never said that psalms are old world,
I said they are old world by behavior, meaning not by label, which is an important detail. Yes, again, you said bridge species, I get it, and you
argued against me vehemently over your label, when I never said psalms are called old world.

@The grim reaper

"Pah! You and your toxic matrimony of binary species labelling based on geography, it's obviously a spectrum... "

This is nothing more than poisoning the well.

Reactions: Funny 2


----------



## Jason B (May 15, 2017)

BishopiMaster said:


> What about their behavior makes you think that, just curious"<--- vipers first rebuttal


I'm curious how you came to the conclusion this was a rebuttal.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## BishopiMaster (May 15, 2017)

Jason B said:


> I'm curious how you came to the conclusion this was a rebuttal.


It's not 'literally' a rebuttal, its the heading of one, the beginning, the title, the gist, you want me to compile all of his arguments? if so, that is pedantic, the point is: why would you question that psalms are more ow by behavior than nw if you consider them a bridge species and harp on that fact.


----------



## The Grym Reaper (May 15, 2017)

BishopiMaster said:


> This is nothing more than poisoning the well.


You sharted in it a long while ago.

I literally stopped taking anything you say seriously when you started putting words in the mouth of the OP, made baseless assumptions about my "love of everything OW", deliberately twisted something I'd said to try and one-up me, cited a page that used a picture of an A. geniculata for a P. cambridgei, cherry-picked the one bite report from a thread that claimed to have symptoms lasting more than 24hrs that wasn't even a first-hand account after you complained about Viper picking other examples of NW species without urticating setae just because it supported his argument and not yours. 

You either have some sort of serious malfunction or you're trolling.

I don't really care which anymore, I'm done wasting time with you.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Ungoliant (May 15, 2017)

The Grym Reaper said:


> I fully agree with this, getting a Psalmopoeus from point A to point B is a piece of cake compared to getting an Avic to do the same, if you can even get the Avic to bloody move it still won't go where you want it to, it's simultaneously hilarious and an utter pain in the arse lol.


I tried to nudge my pre-molt Avic in the direction of her water dish, because I haven't seen her drink recently. First she grabbed the paintbrush. Then she gingerly stepped over the paintbrush and went into her log. Nothing I did with the paintbrush deterred her from going in the direction she wanted.

Reactions: Funny 2


----------



## Chris LXXIX (May 15, 2017)

BishopiMaster said:


> This is nothing more than poisoning the well.


Ah ah, your metaphore made me laugh, man: I imagine in my mind Pennywise the Clown now, doing that, delivering an helluva of cyanide lollipops to elders and kids as well, of course. Pennywise theme included, not even a thing to say


----------



## BishopiMaster (May 15, 2017)

The Grym Reaper said:


> You sharted in it a long while ago.
> 
> I literally stopped taking anything you say seriously when you started putting words in the mouth of the OP, made baseless assumptions about my "love of everything OW", deliberately twisted something I'd said to try and one-up me, cited a page that used a picture of an A. geniculata for a P. cambridgei, cherry-picked the one bite report from a thread that claimed to have symptoms lasting more than 24hrs that wasn't even a first-hand account after you complained about Viper picking other examples of NW species without urticating setae just because it supported his argument and not yours.
> 
> ...


"I literally stopped taking anything you say seriously when you started putting words in the mouth of the OP"

This is ridiculous, I already refuted this, the OP originally had stated her reluctance to transition to OW's.

"made baseless assumptions about my "love of everything OW"

You got me there, I literally cannot think of a different driving force for your arguments that
comes from any consistency.

Hahaha, your purporting of cherry picking is hilarious, the entire compendium of information in this hobby is from bite reports, most LD-50 reports don't even take into consideration the amount of venom injected with tarantulas. I literally found an article that is properly sourced, that proves that p. cambridgei venom binds to the exact same receptors as does capsaican. Which is a diamond in the rough as far as evidence in this hobby is concerned.

"cherry-picked the one bite report from a thread that claimed to have symptoms lasting more than 24hrs that wasn't even a first-hand account after you complained about Viper picking other examples of NW species without urticating setae just because it supported his argument and not yours."

Ok buddy, if the experience has to be first hand, why rely on any bite report at all?

Probably the most profound things you've said is that I twisted your words, prove to me, where I twisted your words, this is another absurd claim from you and your argument is fast dissolving into a mass of ad hominem.

By the way, serious malfunction is the equivalent of calling someone retarded, but you won't say that, because your mechanism of action is manipulating audience.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## sasker (May 15, 2017)

The Grym Reaper said:


> I don't really care which anymore, I'm done wasting time with you.


That's the way to go. Although it is tempting to respond - just don't. It would only prolong this tedious, unnecessary and endless discussion. Trust me.


----------



## The Grym Reaper (May 15, 2017)

sasker said:


> That's the way to go. Although it is tempting to respond - just don't. It would only prolong this tedious, unnecessary and endless discussion. Trust me.


I put him in my ignore list straight after the last post, "chess with pigeons" and all that

Reactions: Funny 2


----------



## viper69 (May 17, 2017)

Jason B said:


> I'm curious how you came to the conclusion this was a rebuttal.


It wasn't, I was actually curious, hence my question. It seemed rather straightforward to me.


----------



## BishopiMaster (May 17, 2017)

viper69 said:


> It wasn't, I was actually curious, hence my question. It seemed rather straightforward to me.


This is either a semantics game or you are an exceptionally curious person, and for that, I applaud you, for both being curious and having the necromancy abilities to resurrect this thread.

Reactions: Clarification Please 1


----------



## vespers (May 17, 2017)

BishopiMaster said:


> and having the necromancy abilities to resurrect this thread.


The necromancy abilities to resurrect this thread? 
This thread was started only 5 days ago. Its not like someone posted in/brought back a thread from 2011 or anything like that.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 1 | Award 1


----------



## The Grym Reaper (May 17, 2017)

vespers said:


> The necromancy abilities to resurrect this thread?
> This thread was started only 5 days ago. Its not like someone posted in/brought back a thread from 2011 or anything like that.


Or even worse, 2003...

I hear that you have to read ancient Sumerian texts to pull that off.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## vespers (May 17, 2017)

The Grym Reaper said:


> Or even worse, 2003...
> 
> I hear that you have to read ancient Sumerian texts to pull that off.


There's probably a Sumerian cuneiform translator app for that somewhere.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2


----------



## BishopiMaster (May 17, 2017)

The Grym Reaper said:


> Or even worse, 2003...
> 
> I hear that you have to read ancient Sumerian texts to pull that off.


That moment when you ignore someone but indirectly respond, this thread was relatively dead and op hasnt responded, for all intensive purposes it was on its way out


----------



## viper69 (May 17, 2017)

BishopiMaster said:


> This is either a semantics game or you are an exceptionally curious person, and for that, I applaud you, for both being curious and having the necromancy abilities to resurrect this thread.


I'm an exceptionally curious person. As far as necromantic skills, there are people far better than me that bring threads back after 3, 5, and 10 years at times..I have nothing on them

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## BishopiMaster (May 17, 2017)

viper69 said:


> I'm an exceptionally curious person. As far as necromantic skills, there are people far better than me that bring threads back after 3, 5, and 10 years at times..I have nothing on them


I guess prevention is the best cure

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## viper69 (May 17, 2017)

BishopiMaster said:


> I guess prevention is the best cure


There's nothing to prevent. Man's curiosity is fabulous.


----------

