# Beginner Poecilotheria



## scott99 (Apr 19, 2015)

I want to get a Poecilotheria for my next T. I already have P cambridgei so I'm ready for the next step. What would you guys recommend for my first pokie.


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## Biollantefan54 (Apr 19, 2015)

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/sho...e-Poecilotheria-s-What-should-be-my-first-few

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## MrDave (Apr 19, 2015)

Whats the hurry? Weren't you in a panicking over your cambridgei's speed a couple weeks ago? I'd recommend you live with that for a while. Cost of screwing up with a pokie is pretty high, from what I hear. Their venom sucks.

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## Ellenantula (Apr 19, 2015)

It's not a purchase order, it's a proficiency order.  You have to gain some experience first with the Psalmi and you haven't given that enough time, imo.

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## antinous (Apr 19, 2015)

I'm pretty sure in your last thread you were talking about how you're intimidated of your P. cambridgei right? Even if it has been a few weeks you are in NO way ready for a Poec. Give it at least a few months (or years) working your way up, there's no shame to that. But, similar to what I said in the other thread, it's not going to be fair for the animal to have someone who isn't experienced. Save yourself, and the tarantula, the trouble. Having a Psalmopoeus does not make you qualified to jump right into a Poec in any shape or form. Keep working with fast moving NW species then work your way up to a slow-moderate OW, like a Ceratogyrus sp. or Eucratoscelus pachypus. And this hobby doesn't need a blow to it that a young teen getting bit by a 'huge deadly giant spider' would cause.

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## Angel Minkov (Apr 19, 2015)

Judging from his posts I dont think he will listen so I will just go on and recommend P. metallica/subfusca/miranda before he gets the wrong Pokie.

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## awiec (Apr 19, 2015)

Pokies and beginner do not belong is the same sentence unless it is "are not for". You had a hard time with your psalmo, a pokie will make you pay for such sloppiness. Your parents said no "hot" Ts and you need to respect that wish. Out of the 5 species I have my vitatta is the most calm while the metallica is the most nasty but at the end of the day they are all very similar in temperament and are very potent. You haven't even gotten into African OW yet, those will be even more defensive than the psalmo and are what you should step into. Who knows maybe you won't even want a pokie, the African OW are very diverse and more interesting than pokies in my humble opinion.

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## antinous (Apr 19, 2015)

THE DARK KNIGHT said:


> well, I'm not planning on getting one any time soon. I will probably wait few months( I like you say).


It's good that you're making the right call for waiting a few months, however, just waiting isn't enough. Build your confidence up with the tarantulas you have now and _slowly_ work your way up. This isn't a race and you don't get any prizes for winning. Get a few more fast NW species after you become comfortable with your Psalmo, then I'd get an aggressive NW (like a Phormictopus), then I'd get an OW (like the ones I mentioned). But, once again, it's good that you're waiting.

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## cold blood (Apr 19, 2015)

awiec said:


> Pokies and beginner do not belong is the same sentence unless it is "are not for".


My thoughts as well.  I'd rather this thread have been titled;  "first Poecilotheria" and keep the word beginner away...

Check out the thread posted by biollantefan (I hate your "handle", I always have to go back 5 times to spell it right), he posted a thread with all you'll need to decide....when you're ready.

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## MrDave (Apr 19, 2015)

THE DARK KNIGHT said:


> well, I'm not planning on getting one any time soon. I will probably wait few months( I like you say).


Good call. Once you've let your cambridgei grow to an adult and had to rehouse it and spent time cleaning and otherwise maintaining its enclosure you'll be in a better position to make a good decision re getting one.

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## awiec (Apr 19, 2015)

THE DARK KNIGHT said:


> well, I'm not planning on getting one any time soon. I will probably wait few months( I like you say).


Replace months with years, you're 15 you have tons of time to get to a pokie.

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## scott99 (Apr 19, 2015)

Pampho85 said:


> I'm pretty sure in your last thread you were talking about how you're intimidated of your P. cambridgei right? Even if it has been a few weeks you are in NO way ready for a Poec. Give it at least a few months (or years) working your way up, there's no shame to that. But, similar to what I said in the other thread, it's not going to be fair for the animal to have someone who isn't experienced. Save yourself, and the tarantula, the trouble. Having a Psalmopoeus does not make you qualified to jump right into a Poec in any shape or form. Keep working with fast moving NW species then work your way up to a slow-moderate OW, like a Ceratogyrus sp. or Eucratoscelus pachypus. And this hobby doesn't need a blow to it that a young teen getting bit by a 'huge deadly giant spider' would cause.


 well, I'm not planning on getting one any time soon. I will probably wait few months( I like you say); my parent probably won't let me have a another T for a few months anyway.


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## Angel Minkov (Apr 19, 2015)

awiec said:


> Pokies and beginner do not belong is the same sentence unless it is "are not for". You had a hard time with your psalmo, a pokie will make you pay for such sloppiness. Your parents said no "hot" Ts and you need to respect that wish. Out of the 5 species I have my vitatta is the most calm while the metallica is the most nasty but at the end of the day they are all very similar in temperament and are very potent. You haven't even gotten into African OW yet, those will be even more defensive than the psalmo and are what you should step into. Who knows maybe you won't even want a pokie, the African OW are very diverse and more interesting than pokies in my humble opinion.


Depends on the genus. Some African OWs are just as intimidating and potent as Pokies are. Yes, Im looking at you, P. murinus.

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## awiec (Apr 19, 2015)

Angel Minkov said:


> Depends on the genus. Some African OWs are just as intimidating and potent as Pokies are. Yes, Im looking at you, P. murinus.


I was thinking more of C.darlingi and similar species. OBT, S.cals and H.macs make pokies look like kittens so I will agree with you there.

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## cold blood (Apr 19, 2015)

awiec said:


> Replace months with years, you're 15 you have tons of time to get to a pokie.


+1  its not a race, and there' nothing to win.  Patience is a virtue, and few hobbies require the patience that this one does.  I'm of the opinion that slower is almost always the most beneficial way to go for both you, and the t's involved.

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## antinous (Apr 19, 2015)

awiec said:


> Replace months with years, you're 15 you have tons of time to get to a pokie.


This. Should have said years instead of months in my post, my mistake on that part. I'm 20 years old, worked with venomous snakes, crocodiles, large constrictors, NW tarantulas (in and out of the field), and I do have 1 OW. I hardly feel like I'm ready for a Poec, and I do admire their beauty and all, I'd love to get one, but I'll wait a few more years. I don't feel like I'm ready for them and there's nothing wrong with that at all. I'll wait until I feel like I can give the tarantula the proper care that it deserves then, maybe, I'll get one.

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## scott99 (Apr 19, 2015)

If you guys don't think a pokie would be a good T for me right now I will just get a birdeater or a NW arboreal.


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## antinous (Apr 19, 2015)

THE DARK KNIGHT said:


> If you guys don't think a pokie would be a good T for me right now I will just get a birdeater.


Good call. I'd suggest an Acanthoscurria geniculata or an LP. They're very beautiful in their own respects.

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## scott99 (Apr 19, 2015)

already have a LP.


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## cold blood (Apr 19, 2015)

Pampho85 said:


> This. Should have said years instead of months in my post, my mistake on that part. I'm 20 years old, worked with venomous snakes, crocodiles, large constrictors, NW tarantulas (in and out of the field), and I do have 1 OW. I hardly feel like I'm ready for a Poec, and I do admire their beauty and all, I'd love to get one, but I'll wait a few more years. I don't feel like I'm ready for them and there's nothing wrong with that at all. I'll wait until I feel like I can give the tarantula the proper care that it deserves then, maybe, I'll get one.


Not only is there nothing wrong about that....there is everything right about it.  I applaud you and wish more understood what you do...your experiences have no doubt helped you to make good decisions and be a good example for new keepers to follow.

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## Angel Minkov (Apr 19, 2015)

awiec said:


> I was thinking more of C.darlingi and similar species. OBT, S.cals and H.macs make pokies look like kittens so I will agree with you there.


Yup. They are definitely more prone to biting and are fast too. C. darlingi is an okay OW to build up respect with, but not okay to get used to OWs, imo. Taps and Psalms are the best species to prepare you for OWs such as Pokies. They're fast, nicely sized, skittish and some can be quite defensive.

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## antinous (Apr 19, 2015)

THE DARK KNIGHT said:


> already have a LP.


Alright, then here's one. If you save up a bit of cash, then I'd try a Pampho species. Just as beautiful as a Poec, but are amazing in their own respects.

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## cold blood (Apr 19, 2015)

THE DARK KNIGHT said:


> If you guys don't think a pokie would be a good T for me right now I will just get a birdeater.


Birdeater is a very generic term that simply means large south American t.   I dislike the term very much personally....its a meaningless term that only serves to cause confusion on several different levels.

A Phormic would be a great addition as mentioned.   Not only do they get big, but they are impressive eaters, quick growers and they can be quick and at times very defensive.   Under-rated good looks as well and easily available at low costs.



Pampho85 said:


> Alright, then here's one. If you save up a bit of cash, then I'd try a Pampho species. Just as beautiful as a Poec, but are amazing in their own respects.


Their only downside is cost, and as the OP is young, that was my consideration in suggesting a Phormic over a Pamph...but by all means, get a Pamph if you can...there may be no cooler large South American terrestrial genus on the planet than a Pampho!!   Brilliant t in literally every way.  IMO they are the undisputed champion of NW carapaces.

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## awiec (Apr 19, 2015)

Angel Minkov said:


> Yup. They are definitely more prone to biting and are fast too. C. darlingi is an okay OW to build up respect with, but not okay to get used to OWs, imo. Taps and Psalms are the best species to prepare you for OWs such as Pokies. They're fast, nicely sized, skittish and some can be quite defensive.


My taps run circles around my pokies but are way calmer and only prepare you for speed, not aggression. My C.darlingi trained me more for the touchiness of OW rather than the speed, they are on high alert and one needs to be very calm and smooth with their actions. 

As for a different T for the OP I will endorse Pamphs (P.nigricolor, P.sp Platyomma etc) like I always do. They are big, pretty, a little sassy and are good eaters, you really can't beat that combo.

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## antinous (Apr 19, 2015)

cold blood said:


> Their only downside is cost, and as the OP is young, that was my consideration in suggesting a Phormic over a Pamph...but by all means, get a Pamph if you can...there may be no cooler large South American terrestrial genus on the planet than a Pampho!!   Brilliant t in literally every way.  IMO they are the undisputed champion of NW carapaces.


That is true! I'm not a teen and I still can't afford one haha. Makes me pretty jealous of my friends who have them walking all over their doorstep and all.

Phormictopus are amazing, I wanted to get one again after my roommates (I'll refrain from any name called or insulting words) turned down the temp too low while I was out of town. Now I have to wait until I get a new apartment to get any large, defensive NWs since my mom will be taking care of my T's for me haha.


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## cold blood (Apr 19, 2015)

Pampho85 said:


> That is true! I'm not a teen and I still can't afford one haha. Makes me pretty jealous of my friends who have them walking all over their doorstep and all.
> 
> Phormictopus are amazing, I wanted to get one again after my roommates (I'll refrain from any name called or insulting words) turned down the temp too low while I was out of town. Now I have to wait until I get a new apartment to get any large, defensive NWs since my mom will be taking care of my T's for me haha.


If you ever need them watched for any long period of time, bring them here, I'd be happy to take the pressure off of mom....I'm 90 minutes from Chitown.

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## antinous (Apr 19, 2015)

cold blood said:


> If you ever need them watched for any long period of time, bring them here, I'd be happy to take the pressure off of mom....I'm 90 minutes from Chitown.


Thanks!! I really might take you up on that offer (if you don't mind), but right now I'm helping my parents move down two hours south. And I'm transferring to a different university too so that's a bit more stressful haha. But if I ever need it and you happen to need an extra Phlogius or Euathlus sp. 'Green Femur', I wouldn't mind parting with them for exchange.

/sorry for thread hijack, I'll keep quiet now haha

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## Storm76 (Apr 19, 2015)

Since the worries have been sufficiently answered already...

For those wanting to start into Poecie-World: I'd suggest P. subfusca "lowland" (also often still sold as "bara"). Out of all that I've seen these are seemingly the most calm ones of their genus. Mine matured to a MM within 13 months and I never had any problems with the guy - obviously got lucky with his attitude. Right now I'm raising a couple P. miranda and except for being skittish they don't seem confrontational so far either. The P. fasciata however is hell on legs! That one I have to be extra careful with, very cantankerous spider - which I already suspected him to be considering they're certainly on the most defensive side.

Note: There are no guarantees for the temperament of a T. Never ever forget that. What I wrote above, is my personal experience and I'm far from the level that poec is on for example. Listen to the guys here and you'll enjoy the hobby. Don't and you'll sooner or later get tagged hard probably.

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## lalberts9310 (Apr 19, 2015)

Wow hold up there! Bad idea, you were panicking a few days back about the speed of your P. Cam (which happens to be the calmest of psalmos) now you want a poeci? You got your P. Cam as far as up the wall and had her jump to the ground during rehouse, I don't want to see you in a poeci rehouse backfired situation. Take a step back and think, you are what, 16? Plenty of time to get an OW. And as I recall your parents don't allow highly venomous genera? You have brothers under the age of 9? Remember that PM I sent you of a loose P. Cam and someone gets bit? Imagine that with a poeci. They are one of the most venomous tarantula species along with some others, they can make a full grown man endure severe pain (as in 10/10) for a full 2 - 3 weeks, and some other not so nice symptoms like high fever, vommitting, etc . This is a no no. Doesn't mean you have a p. Cam that you are ready for an OW, not a poeci for that fact. Read the bite reports. You're not even halfway ready for a P. Cam, you were scared to death to rehouse her a few days back, so then your defenitely not going to be ready or comfortable with even owning a poeci.

I'd suggest A. Genic, pampho, phormic, maybe C. Fasciatum or GBB? All great looking Ts.

---------- Post added 04-20-2015 at 01:40 AM ----------




Storm76 said:


> The P. fasciata however is hell on legs! That one I have to be extra careful with, very cantankerous spider - which I already suspected him to be considering they're certainly on the most defensive side.


I have P. Fasciata 5" female as my first poeci and OW, she hasn't been confrontational once, not even during rehouse, but skittish and fast as hell

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## Yanose (Apr 19, 2015)

I have kept a number of pokies and can say that unless you have built up your skills and confidence this species will make you pay and our hobby can ill afford such a lesson be dealt to a novice keeper there are laws in the works already that may make pokies hard to get our hands on a young person getting bit and having it leak to the media could be a deathblow to those of us that wish to preserve this species in the hobby and more importantly against extinction. All I can say is be patient take your time and enjoy your tarantulas do not be quick to jump into fast hot arboreal ow Ts you will get there with time or you may find that they are above your comfort level to keep. I had to get give away or sell off all my OW when my little girl came. breeding OBTs and pokies are not cool to have in a house with a toddler way too much chance of a bad incident. now she is older and I am building a T room to keep all but a few display animals which I keep in my living room (A. mettalicas). so even if you have the experience to deal with these guys you need the right place as well.

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## lalberts9310 (Apr 19, 2015)

Angel Minkov said:


> Yup. They are definitely more prone to biting and are fast too. C. darlingi is an okay OW to build up respect with, but not okay to get used to OWs, imo. Taps and Psalms are the best species to prepare you for OWs such as Pokies. They're fast, nicely sized, skittish and some can be quite defensive.


+1 on the psalmos and taps being a great OW arboreal introduction, but having 1 P. Cam that is 3" and being scared of it because of the speed is definitely a sign that you are not ready for even a P. Cam, let alone a OW, I have several psalmos and finally got my first OW, which is a P. Fasciata, well not the best OW to start out with (well most starter OWs are illegal in my country), not even the best poeci, but saw her at a petshop, female at a bargan price, in a critter keeper with bone dry substrate and an empty water dish, and a small abdomen, so how could one pass it up?.. I felt sorry for her, and completely felt comfortable, even with the thought of rehousing a 5" skittish poeci, and a few day after purchasing her when her new enclosure was all ready for her, I successfully rehoused my first OW  all thanks to having enough psalmo experience under my belt, and to all the experts here who helped me along the way


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## awiec (Apr 19, 2015)

lalberts9310 said:


> +1 on the psalmos and taps being a great OW arboreal introduction, but having 1 P. Cam that is 3" and being scared of it because of the speed is definitely a sign that you are not ready for even a P. Cam, let alone a OW, I have several psalmos and finally got my first OW, which is a P. Fasciata, well not the best OW to start out with (well most starter OWs are illegal in my country), not even the best poeci, but saw her at a petshop, female at a bargan price, in a critter keeper with bone dry substrate and an empty water dish, and a small abdomen, so how could one pass it up?.. I felt sorry for her, and completely felt comfortable, even with the thought of rehousing a 5" skittish poeci, and a few day after purchasing her when her new enclosure was all ready for her, I successfully rehoused my first OW  all thanks to having enough psalmo experience under my belt, and to all the experts here who helped me along the way


While I'm all for the tap wagon, batkid here had issues with a psalmo...a tap would have ended up getting lost, they move quick and seem pretty smart for spiders. Best case here is just to let him raise his psalmo and hope he doesn't do something rash like getting and losing a pokie in the house with young children. I went the tap route before I got a pokie but speed does not bother me, I wanted to hone my skills with a skittish spider so I could have refined movements to not spook a potent spider; seems to work as my pokies don't really care what I do.

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## Poec54 (Apr 19, 2015)

THE DARK KNIGHT said:


> well, I'm not planning on getting one any time soon. I will probably wait few months( I like you say); my parent probably won't let me have a another T for a few months anyway.


Your parents need to read bite reports for Poecs before they let you have one.  That's only fair to them.

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## windscorpions1 (Apr 19, 2015)

Dont wanna hijack the thread but since things similar have already been mentioned....what about a species from iridopelma before an old world arboreal? You almost here nothing about them.

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## awiec (Apr 19, 2015)

Poec54 said:


> Your parents need to read bite reports for Poecs before they let you have one.  That's only fair to them.


Agreed. They said no hot species for a reason, they are making sure that no one gets hurt because of an impulsive buy from their teenager. 

By bringing in a potent species you are making a decision for the parents and younger siblings. Of course you can "do your best" to make sure no one gets bit but what if your little brother/sister does? You decided that buying a spider that you have not trained or prepared for was more important than their safety. I did not keep any of my potent species at home because I have younger sisters and valued their safety above all else just because accidents do happen and I don't want to leave it up to fate to decide who gets bit. In my current situation myself and possibly my boyfriend could get bit but both of us are fine with the risk, while I respected my family enough to not make that decision for them when I lived with them. 

Not trying to sound preachy but try to see this from your family's eyes and not through the lens of a teenager because guess what, your brain is not done growing yet (hell mine still has a few years) and you don't have the life experience to make the best judgements.

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## BobGrill (Apr 20, 2015)

There are no good pokies for beginners because Poecilotheria is not a genus for beginners.  

Next week we'll probably be seeing a thread from him asking if he's ready for an OBT.

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## Angel Minkov (Apr 20, 2015)

awiec said:


> My taps run circles around my pokies but are way calmer and only prepare you for speed, not aggression. My C.darlingi trained me more for the touchiness of OW rather than the speed, they are on high alert and one needs to be very calm and smooth with their actions.
> 
> As for a different T for the OP I will endorse Pamphs (P.nigricolor, P.sp Platyomma etc) like I always do. They are big, pretty, a little sassy and are good eaters, you really can't beat that combo.


I prefer training myself for speed rather than threat poses, but I guess there has to be a combo - fast NW for speed and a feisty, slow OW terrestrial for aggression. But then again, I never had "bridge" species. I had owned only an LS and a B. vagans before just going and buying a P. regalis sling. These forums definitely helped me treat it with greater respect so I didnt have any problems.

LOL, I was 16 when I got my first Pokie last summer too. Quit picking on his age haha but the batkid joke was funny. You guys beat me to it

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## Poec54 (Apr 20, 2015)

windscorpions1 said:


> Dont wanna hijack the thread but since things similar have already been mentioned....what about a species from iridopelma before an old world arboreal? You almost here nothing about them.


Not for a beginner.  They're rare and expensive.  Not a good place to start with arboreals.

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## MrDave (Apr 20, 2015)

BobGrill said:


> There are no good pokies for beginners because Poecilotheria is not a genus for beginners.
> 
> Next week we'll probably be seeing a thread from him asking if he's ready for an OBT.


Good on him for listening to reason in this thread (assuming he does get a NW of some sort). If he does get tempted by an OBT purchase, hopefully he will post here for advice.


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## Misty Day (Apr 20, 2015)

As others have said, there is no beginner poecilotheria. And while some poecs may be 'calmer' than the more 'hot' ones, you could buy one of the more laid back poecs, such as a P.Subfusca, and it could by as high strung and defensive as a rufilata or ornata, and vice versa, you could get an ornata or rufi,and it could be the most laid back poec ever. 

Individualism is very important, especially with fast and venomous tarantulas. So there's literally no point in asking for a beginner poec, because there isn't one. Also, if you're asking other people what poec to get, it shows that you're not ready for one.


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## awiec (Apr 20, 2015)

Angel Minkov said:


> I prefer training myself for speed rather than threat poses, but I guess there has to be a combo - fast NW for speed and a feisty, slow OW terrestrial for aggression. But then again, I never had "bridge" species. I had owned only an LS and a B. vagans before just going and buying a P. regalis sling. These forums definitely helped me treat it with greater respect so I didnt have any problems.
> 
> LOL, I was 16 when I got my first Pokie last summer too. Quit picking on his age haha but the batkid joke was funny. You guys beat me to it


You're still a bit older than him and 15 year olds just don't make the best decisions. Do you think at 15 you could have handled a pokie or dis-obey a family wish to not have potent species? No probably not. Plus honestly I think he's doing himself a disservice, there are tons of cool species out there and by skipping to just pokies he is going to miss them.

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## IHeartTs (Apr 20, 2015)

Poec54 said:


> Your parents need to read bite reports for Poecs before they let you have one.  That's only fair to them.


I agree with this 147%. They have a right to know about an animal this venomous living in their home. They'd need to know as much as you do about the behavior of the spider, what to expect from a bite, etc. Because god forbid the thing gets out when you aren't home. You're gonna have one pissed off parent if they have to take off work for a week because you or they got tagged. I think you should do a little more reading and get a little more experience with fast NWs and some calmer OWs. Not every spider that's gonna bite will warn you. You still have a lot to learn and jumping into poecs even 3 months from now will be something youre going to regret. There's so many cool species that come before poecs that won't give you anxiety. Patience is a virtue.

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## Felidae (Apr 20, 2015)

With young siblings, any potent is just "no noooooo, no..." regardless of experience or preparedness. If you have enough experience, and if you can keep them in a separate escape proof venom room closed by a key, where just you can enter maybe... 

I know what I talking about. I lost 10 years from my life when my ex and some fiends (not even kids!) go to "pet" my hot snake collection, cause I kept the venom room key at home. One enclosure broken, no bite, snakes sold...

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## scott99 (Apr 20, 2015)

Felidae said:


> With young siblings, any potent is just "no noooooo, no..." regardless of experience or preparedness. If you have enough experience, and if you can keep them in a separate escape proof venom room closed by a key, where just you can enter maybe...
> 
> I know what I talking about. I lost 10 years from my life when my ex and some fiends (not even kids!) go to "pet" my hot snake collection, cause I kept the venom room key at home. One enclosure broken, no bite, snakes sold...


ok, than I won't get a pokie. If you guys have any other recommend for than just send me a PM.


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## Angel Minkov (Apr 20, 2015)

awiec said:


> You're still a bit older than him and 15 year olds just don't make the best decisions. Do you think at 15 you could have handled a pokie or dis-obey a family wish to not have potent species? No probably not. Plus honestly I think he's doing himself a disservice, there are tons of cool species out there and by skipping to just pokies he is going to miss them.


I got my first OBT when I was around 13-14 LOL I'm not disagreeing with you guys. I endorse responsible acquisitions just as much as you do. I won't go into the parenting part, because I don't want people around here to get the wrong idea. OP should get a few Psalms and then a slow OW to build up respect towards it and he should be good to go in a year or so.


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## scott99 (Apr 20, 2015)

Poec54 said:


> Your parents need to read bite reports for Poecs before they let you have one.  That's only fair to them.


My dad has read a bite report for a p regalis.


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## Poec54 (Apr 20, 2015)

THE DARK KNIGHT said:


> My dad has read a bite report for a p regalis.



Then you won't be getting a Poecilotheria until you get a place of your own.


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## scott99 (Apr 20, 2015)

I have a question, why do people handle their pokies'.


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## lalberts9310 (Apr 20, 2015)

THE DARK KNIGHT said:


> I have a question, why do people handle their pokie.


Because they're stupid idiots

Reactions: Like 7 | Winner 1


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## Ellenantula (Apr 20, 2015)

THE DARK KNIGHT said:


> I have a question, why do people handle their pokie.


Ignorance or dare devil'ry or a combination thereof, imo.

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## lalberts9310 (Apr 20, 2015)

THE DARK KNIGHT said:


> ok, than I won't get a pokie. If you guys have any other recommend for than just send me a PM.


 At the beginning of this thread there were good recommendations on what you should look into


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## IHeartTs (Apr 20, 2015)

THE DARK KNIGHT said:


> I have a question, why do people handle their pokie.


Ignorance, curiosity, intoxication, attempt to educate. There's a million reasons but they shouldn't be handled. I thought my p fascista was a calm girl until she wasnt  (I was not handling her). They're too unpredictable to get comfortable around.

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## awiec (Apr 20, 2015)

THE DARK KNIGHT said:


> ok, than I won't get a pokie. If you guys have any other recommend for than just send me a PM.


Page 2 has recommendations: Pamphs, Phormics, Genics, Lassies, Avics, Taps etc etc. All are fun NW species that are not potent OW.

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## IHeartTs (Apr 20, 2015)

awiec said:


> Page 2 has recommendations: Pamphs, Phormics, Genics, Lassies, Avics, Taps etc etc. All are fun NW species that are not potent OW.


We all completely glazed over nhandu!

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## awiec (Apr 20, 2015)

IHeartTs said:


> We all completely glazed over nhandu!


I think it was mentioned but to me if you got a genic then you basically have a nhandu with less nasty hairs


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## IHeartTs (Apr 20, 2015)

awiec said:


> I think it was mentioned but to me if you got a genic then you basically have a nhandu with less nasty hairs


I clearly can't read then lol. I just like chromatus because of the colors. The genus in general doesn't interest me all the much. White carapaces really get me

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## scott99 (Apr 20, 2015)

Thank guys, for all your suggest and recommendation.


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## Poec54 (Apr 20, 2015)

THE DARK KNIGHT said:


> I have a question, why do people handle their pokie.



Show offs, thrill seekers, people who like to say:_ "Watch me do this!"
_

Irresponsible behavior may get tarantulas banned, and ruin the hobby for everyone.  But those people don't care; they'll find a new shiny object to get their kicks from.  It's all about their egos.

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## The Weed Man (Apr 20, 2015)

Yeah man don't rush it like I did with my first Ts. I got a haplopelma lividium as my second T even though many have said how fast and aggressive they were but I didn't care. Even the pet store lady hesitated to sell it to me. Well anyway I brought it home (age 16) (yes I was young and ignorant) and when I tried to rehouse it she sprang to life and got out of the container she was in onto a desk I didn't know what to do because 1 I was terrified of it and 2 because I had no experience with such Ts so It took me awhile to think of how to get it in its new cage and finally did. I got lucky nothing happened to me or my family but doesn't mean my luck goes for all. Then 6 months later got a regalis again not experienced with the species but nothing happened except when I sold her I needed to get her in a container and it took me about an hour because I didn't want to get bit but again I had no experience with their speed and defensiveness but I knew I should of waited because funny thing like you I only had an irminia for 2 months or so before I got that regalis. At least keep the cambridgei for a year before making your move to poec  species and show you dad youre responsible enough to own a Poec. Someone told me before on here that if you can physically handle and irminia that your ready for a Poec but don't be dumb and try it without being able to predict their behavior and movements you will eventually will be able to.

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## lalberts9310 (Apr 20, 2015)

The Weed Man said:


> Yeah man don't rush it like I did with my first Ts. I got a haplopelma lividium as my second T even though many have said how fast and aggressive they were but I didn't care. Even the pet store lady hesitated to sell it to me. Well anyway I brought it home (age 16) (yes I was young and ignorant) and when I tried to rehouse it she sprang to life and got out of the container she was in onto a desk I didn't know what to do because 1 I was terrified of it and 2 because I had no experience with such Ts so It took me awhile to think of how to get it in its new cage and finally did. I got lucky nothing happened to me or my family but doesn't mean my luck goes for all. Then 6 months later got a regalis again not experienced with the species but nothing happened except when I sold her I needed to get her in a container and it took me about an hour because I didn't want to get bit but again I had no experience with their speed and defensiveness but I knew I should of waited because funny thing like you I only had an irminia for 2 months or so before I got that regalis. At least keep the cambridgei for a year before making your move to poec  species and show you dad youre responsible enough to own a Poec. Someone told me before on here that if you can physically handle and irminia that your ready for a Poec but don't be dumb and try it without being able to predict their behavior and movements you will eventually will be able to.


I have owned psalmopoeus (mostly Irminia) successfully over a year before I felt comfortable with getting OWs, and I have to say P. Irminia especially, helped me a lot in getting prepped for an OW.. but they mean nothing experience wise if you only have owned them for a short while, when you successfully rehouse a feisty adult psalmo, when you successfully do feeding and maintenance, then you MAY be ready, like I said I own several (7) psalmos as of now of which 3 is slings.. so I have had to take care of 3 adult psalmos (rehouse, feeding, maintenance, the other psalmo I bought after I got my first OW, so doesn't count) before I felt comfortable with owning an OW.


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## cold blood (Apr 20, 2015)

Angel Minkov said:


> OP should get a few Psalms and then a slow OW to build up respect towards it and he should be good to go in a year or so.


There's no such thing as a "slow" OW, at least not that I've ever seen or heard of.   OW just plain = fast.   

I agree that a few Psalms for a year or two will be excellent preparation for OW arboreals, especially poecs.



IHeartTs said:


> I clearly can't read then lol. I just like chromatus because of the colors. The genus in general doesn't interest me all the much. White carapaces really get me


I got a thing for lighter colored carapaces, too   The off white carapace of the chromatus is quite beautiful.




Op, smart people never handle their pokies:wink:   Handling them, at least in my view, is a clear sign of low intelligence.

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## Felidae (Apr 20, 2015)

Cannot everyone agree with me, but I'm still in the point that doesn't matter if he get 1-2-3 years of experience with psalmos, if his siblings still kids under x years. 
They cannot feel the responsibility what he must have instead of them, (and not every young big brother ready for it). The smaller ones listen more their parents than a brother. Time will tell if it'll working for him, or not... Many of us who have kids near potent Ts, I think know what I'm speaking about.

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## IHeartTs (Apr 20, 2015)

cold blood said:


> There's no such thing as a "slow" OW, at least not that I've ever seen or heard of.   OW just plain = fast.
> 
> I agree that a few Psalms for a year or two will be excellent preparation for OW arboreals, especially poecs.
> 
> ...


They really are. I love it on my c fim.  She is one of the most interestingly colored tarantulas I've seen.

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## lalberts9310 (Apr 20, 2015)

Felidae said:


> Cannot everyone agree with me, but I'm still in the point that doesn't matter if he get 1-2-3 years of experience with psalmos, if his siblings still kids under x years.
> They cannot feel the responsibility what he must have instead of them, (and not every young big brother ready for it). The smaller ones listen more their parents than a brother. Time will tell if it'll working for him, or not... Many of us who have kids near potent Ts, I think know what I'm speaking about.


 I agree with you 200%, I think at his age it would be completely irresponsible (especially if your experience level doesn't allow and it's against your parents wishes) to get a hot T, especially with the presence of young children.

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## cold blood (Apr 20, 2015)

Felidae said:


> Cannot everyone agree with me, but I'm still in the point that doesn't matter if he get 1-2-3 years of experience with psalmos, if his siblings still kids under x years.
> They cannot feel the responsibility what he must have instead of them, (and not every young big brother ready for it). The smaller ones listen more their parents than a brother. Time will tell if it'll working for him, or not... Many of us who have kids near potent Ts, I think know what I'm speaking about.


I agree, but also assume the op won't be living at home forever, but yeah, his own place is yet another thing he should be waiting for before going down that road.

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## lalberts9310 (Apr 20, 2015)

cold blood said:


> I agree, but also assume the op won't be living at home forever, but yeah, his own place is yet another thing he should be waiting for before going down that road.


 But till then, I personally wouldn't own any hot Ts, psalmos are as far as I would go in such situation.


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## awiec (Apr 20, 2015)

cold blood said:


> There's no such thing as a "slow" OW, at least not that I've ever seen or heard of.   OW just plain = fast.
> 
> I agree that a few Psalms for a year or two will be excellent preparation for OW arboreals, especially poecs.


Even my big fat C.darlingi can get down and boogie, she probably out-speeds all of my NW except my taps and I have some feisty NW specimens. OW are just high strung and will not hesistate to act, with NW you can usually see a slight pause but OW don't mess around. Granted I'm not trying to be a killjoy, my C.darlingi is a very nice tarantula but I'm still not going to hold her or let my guard down.



Felidae said:


> Cannot everyone agree with me, but I'm still in the point that doesn't matter if he get 1-2-3 years of experience with psalmos, if his siblings still kids under x years.
> They cannot feel the responsibility what he must have instead of them, (and not every young big brother ready for it). The smaller ones listen more their parents than a brother. Time will tell if it'll working for him, or not... Many of us who have kids near potent Ts, I think know what I'm speaking about.


I didn't keep potent OW at my house due to the fact I had younger sisters, yes they would never mess with the spiders but if just one were to get away from me and they got bit I nor my family would never forgive me for it. I kept my potent stuff at my boyfriend's instead as everyone in the home was an adult and gave me permission to do so. I think 3 years with a psalmo would be perfect for him as A)He'll be an adult and can get his own place and B) Thats enough time to raise and spend time with an adult psalmo making the OW jump more "easy".

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## Angel Minkov (Apr 20, 2015)

CB, my balfouri is slowish. Ceratogyrus is probably not one of the fastest compared to Taps, Pokies, P. murinus and so on. In all honesty, there is no "slow T", all are faster than our reflexes. There are just some which are slower than others overall or are less prone to using their speed.

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## lalberts9310 (Apr 20, 2015)

Angel Minkov said:


> CB, my balfouri is slowish. Ceratogyrus is probably not one of the fastest compared to Taps, Pokies, P. murinus and so on. In all honesty, there is no "slow T", all are faster than our reflexes. There are just some which are slower than others overall or are less prone to using their speed.


 Read awiecs post above, you probably have slow moving individuals, or individuals less prone to use their speed, either way I have heard of ceratogyrus and balfouri can sometimes be lightning bolts


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## windscorpions1 (Apr 20, 2015)

Poec54 said:


> Not for a beginner.  They're rare and expensive.  Not a good place to start with arboreals.


thanks was thinking more along the lines of it being a bit rarer alternative to psalmos but psalmos seem like the better option. Personally don't plan on getting into arboreals for a while anyways...prefer to keep my collection small as possible. 
Edit: just to clarify not saying psalmos for beginning...avics then psalmos. Figured what I said might be took the wrong way by someone.


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## cold blood (Apr 20, 2015)

Angel Minkov said:


> CB, my balfouri is slowish. Ceratogyrus is probably not one of the fastest compared to Taps, Pokies, P. murinus and so on. In all honesty, there is no "slow T", all are faster than our reflexes. There are just some which are slower than others overall or are less prone to using their speed.





awiec said:


> Even my big fat C.darlingi can get down and boogie, she probably out-speeds all of my NW except my taps and I have some feisty NW specimens. OW are just high strung and will not hesistate to act, with NW you can usually see a slight pause but OW don't mess around. Granted I'm not trying to be a killjoy, my C.darlingi is a very nice tarantula but I'm still not going to hold her or let my guard down.


I also have an adult female C. darlingi.    Generally its chill, feet out of the hole, or even out and about.  Most of the time when I touch the sides she's right under the hide...occasionally though, she'll run circles around the sides of the enclosure (its a round enclosure) and she's fast (it also makes a lot of noise, sounds like a herd of t's coming to trample me).   But when there is either food or something to investigate, she's a lightning bolt, flying out, tagging the cricket (generally not killing it, as it its not hunting), or my tweezers or the water as I fill the dish...she strikes first every time, then bolts under the hide.   I would almost guarantee if you got a finger in there you would get tagged more times than not.

I think OW just make their fight or flight decision much quicker than NW, leading to the appearance that the NW are hesitating.    Almost everything an OW sees is potential danger...food is seemingly everywhere for a t in places like rainforests, or even the temperate areas that some, like  B. smithi prefer, have a huge abundance of insects and small vertebrates.  

More abundant food probably makes them more likely to think "food" first, while less food and more predators would cause a fight or flight response first instead.   I have a lot of OW (Africans in particular are what I am leaning toward) that initially spook when food is introduced, then they quickly turn and eat (or wait a bit), while I would say most of the NW practically catch the prey as o drop it to them.   You could say the food to predator ratio is much more favorable in, say South America than in Africa.   Just my thoughts based on what I've observed anyway.

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## BobGrill (Apr 20, 2015)

My darlingi is pretty fast.

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## Yanose (Apr 20, 2015)

the food to predator ratio idea is rather interesting that could explain the Urticating hairs over potent venom in NW or perhaps the hairs are such a potent evolutionary advantage they no longer needed the speed and venom.

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## gobey (Apr 20, 2015)

cold blood said:


> I also have an adult female C. darlingi.    Generally its chill, feet out of the hole, or even out and about.  Most of the time when I touch the sides she's right under the hide...occasionally though, she'll run circles around the sides of the enclosure (its a round enclosure) and she's fast (it also makes a lot of noise, sounds like a herd of t's coming to trample me).   But when there is either food or something to investigate, she's a lightning bolt, flying out, tagging the cricket (generally not killing it, as it its not hunting), or my tweezers or the water as I fill the dish...she strikes first every time, then bolts under the hide.   I would almost guarantee if you got a finger in there you would get tagged more times than not.
> 
> I think OW just make their fight or flight decision much quicker than NW, leading to the appearance that the NW are hesitating.    Almost everything an OW sees is potential danger...food is seemingly everywhere for a t in places like rainforests, or even the temperate areas that some, like  B. smithi prefer, have a huge abundance of insects and small vertebrates.
> 
> More abundant food probably makes them more likely to think "food" first, while less food and more predators would cause a fight or flight response first instead.   I have a lot of OW (Africans in particular are what I am leaning toward) that initially spook when food is introduced, then they quickly turn and eat (or wait a bit), while I would say most of the NW practically catch the prey as o drop it to them.   You could say the food to predator ratio is much more favorable in, say South America than in Africa.   Just my thoughts based on what I've observed anyway.


That is probably the best explanation I've heard from anybody. 
Most of my OW are African too. They actually seem a bit braver than my 2 P. regalis. But my regalis are also only 1.5"

I have no Asian species or anything other than 4 baboons and 2 Poecilotheria. 

None of them are aggressive. Heck they're not very "defensive" even. Just shy and skittish. Spooked easily. As long as you don't poke around you're good. 

I've had more issues doing maintenance with Lasiodora and Grammostola honestly. And my Avicularia used to be my #1 escape planner.


I've yet to see a threat posture from any of my OW. Even during unpacking and housings and rehousings. I hope it stays that way. Wishful thinking I'm sure.

I've been threatened and haired by my NWs multiple times.



BobGrill said:


> My darlingi is pretty fast.


My marshalli shot out of the shipping vial like a bat out of hell.

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## Poec54 (Apr 20, 2015)

cold blood said:


> I think OW just make their fight or flight decision much quicker than NW, leading to the appearance that the NW are hesitating.    Almost everything an OW sees is potential danger.


That's true of all tarantulas" danger is everywhere.  The edge NW's have is a passive defense system that can be propelled at intruders from a distance.  It's like having guns versus fighting with fists.  It's an incredible advantage.  That allows them to have a greater margin of error, and sometimes that translates to being able to get away with being less alert.  My Aphonopelma and some of my NW terrestrials aren't all that alert by tarantula standards.  I can do cage maintenance and they're slow to sense it and respond.  Arboreals and OW's pay much more attention.  When you invade their territory and personal space, OW's can't leisurely kick hairs to keep you from getting closer; they have to run, hide, or bite, often in an explosive burst, intended to confuse their predators.  For them, defense frequently means direct physical contact, and there are many risks to that.  OW's do have some relentless predators, like mongeese, honey badgers, and baboons, but NW's aren't immune from predation by any means.   

Picture a troop of baboons moving thru an area, flipping rocks and snacking on tarantulas.  Once that rock is exposed, the spider has a second or two to react, or it's dead.  They _have_ to be alert, they _have _to make the 'fight or flight' decision in a split second.  The slow and indecisive don't get another chance.

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## cold blood (Apr 20, 2015)

I agree...also look at the areas they both have to hide.  Aside from rocks, roots and holes in the ground, the vegetation is often limited to small areas, whereas in a rainforest, a good hide is practically always very close by.   They can disappear into thick foliage quicker than just about anything following....Africans can go down until they run out of room...otherwise its run or bite.  I wonder how often a typical baboon gets tagged in a lifetime....I wonder what the effects are on a baboon...hmmm

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## antinous (Apr 20, 2015)

gobey said:


> I have no Asian species or anything other than 4 baboons and 2 Poecilotheria.


Just a question, don't mean to nitpick or anything, but Poecs are Asian species, and baboons are only classified as African species (if I am correct).
But in any case, I'm jealous, Poecs are pretty nice to have haha. One of my younger cousins called them the jewels of India, wouldn't mind having a few jewels of my country when I'm more experienced  haha

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## awiec (Apr 21, 2015)

Pampho85 said:


> Just a question, don't mean to nitpick or anything, but Poecs are Asian species, and baboons are only classified as African species (if I am correct).
> But in any case, I'm jealous, Poecs are pretty nice to have haha. One of my younger cousins called them the jewels of India, wouldn't mind having a few jewels of my country when I'm more experienced  haha


When people think Asian they think of Haplos and the such, pokies are pretty chill by Asian standards so people kinda forget about that grouping.

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## Angel Minkov (Apr 21, 2015)

Like I said - speed in Ts is a very subtle term. My L. striatipes is faster than my Pokies, but I prefer if I get bit by it or haired for days rather than feeling miserable for several weeks. They can all be lightning fast, it just comes down to how often and to what potential they decide to use their speed and also to the spider itself. I've never seen a threat pose from my OWs, but I can tell you my B. vagans female makes them look like little puppies. I should film her some day.

Lolla, my Ts can't always be the exceptions in this forum. Truth is, there are much worse OW spiders than Ceratogyrus. Hence why people pick the genus most of the time as a first OW.

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## awiec (Apr 21, 2015)

Angel Minkov said:


> Like I said - speed in Ts is a very subtle term. My L. striatipes is faster than my Pokies, but I prefer if I get bit by it or haired for days rather than feeling miserable for several weeks. They can all be lightning fast, it just comes down to how often and to what potential they decide to use their speed and also to the spider itself. I've never seen a threat pose from my OWs, but I can tell you my B. vagans female makes them look like little puppies. I should film her some day.
> 
> Lolla, my Ts can't always be the exceptions in this forum. Truth is, there are much worse OW spiders than Ceratogyrus. Hence why people pick the genus most of the time as a first OW.


Ceratogyrus was being used as more of a point, it's an ideal and normally calm starter OW but is still faster than most NW besides the aboreals (mine is probably faster than my avics) and maybe some of the dwarfs. Yes every spider is pretty fast but if you were to piss off both your LS and a Pokie you would learn real quick who is faster. My OW aren't just zipping around the container all the time but the one time they do decide they prove they are faster than most NW.

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## IHeartTs (Apr 21, 2015)

cold blood said:


> I agree...also look at the areas they both have to hide.  Aside from rocks, roots and holes in the ground, the vegetation is often limited to small areas, whereas in a rainforest, a good hide is practically always very close by.   They can disappear into thick foliage quicker than just about anything following....Africans can go down until they run out of room...otherwise its run or bite.  I wonder how often a typical baboon gets tagged in a lifetime....I wonder what the effects are on a baboon...hmmm


I'm going to assume they don't like it lol. Probably similar to a human: cramps, nausea, vomiting, dizziness, blurred vision, muscle twitching, fever, sweating etc. There was an obt bite report on a cat that said it had vomiting and suspected pain. I'm surprised the cat lived considering what they do to humans.

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## lalberts9310 (Apr 21, 2015)

Angel Minkov said:


> Lolla, my Ts can't always be the exceptions in this forum. Truth is, there are much worse OW spiders than Ceratogyrus. Hence why people pick the genus most of the time as a first OW.


I know there are worse OW than ceratogyrus out there and I agree they are a great starter OW, but what I'm trying to say here why they might be great for OW introduction is because of their calmer disposition, it doesn't make them slowish, they can be fast when provoked, they're not great to start with because they seem "slower" but because they may have a calmer less skittish and defensive disposition than other OWs (again individualism is also a big factor).. but in comparison to NW terrestrials they're not puppies.. and usually when they do bolt they would run continuously without end, where most NWs tend to pause for a second or two. For instance if my Irminia were to bolt, it pauses every now and then, and this I have observed with all my psalmos except my newly acquired one.. while my poeci is less prone to bolt, when she does bolt, she would run circles and circles in her enclosure until she eventually tires.. so doesn't mean if a NW is more prone to bolt that it's faster than a poeci that is less prone to bolt.. thus why I can't consider any OW as "slowish", they just might be less inclined to show off their speed.. just my two cents anyway..  and like you said, any T is faster than our reflexes.

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## Yanose (Apr 21, 2015)

on the baboon topic and in regards to the cat venom as a defense against predators is not meant to kill rather create extreme discomfort so as to create a deterrent to messing with said creature in the future so it makes sense that the cat did not die and I will suspect the animal now gives the tarantula a wide berth and that is the idea from an evolutionary standpoint

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## lalberts9310 (Apr 21, 2015)

Yanose said:


> on the baboon topic and in regards to the cat venom as a defense against predators is not meant to kill rather create extreme discomfort so as to create a deterrent to messing with said creature in the future so it makes sense that the cat did not die and I will suspect the animal now gives the tarantula a wide berth and that is the idea from an evolutionary standpoint


 good point, but I know there's some Australian species with venom that can kill dogs, not entirely sure what species though..


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## Felidae (Apr 21, 2015)

lalberts9310 said:


> good point, but I know there's some Australian species with venom that can kill dogs, not entirely sure what species though..


Example Selenocosmia. (And example that what I don't feel to ready for...  )But human death never reported.

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## Angel Minkov (Apr 21, 2015)

lalberts9310 said:


> good point, but I know there's some Australian species with venom that can kill dogs, not entirely sure what species though..


Phloggius spp., for example. By the way, I have a theory on why pokies run continuously and not in short bursts of speed.

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## lalberts9310 (Apr 21, 2015)

Angel Minkov said:


> Phloggius spp., for example. By the way, I have a theory on why pokies run continuously and not in short bursts of speed.


I have witnessed other species running continuously as well, not just poecis, Ts such as h. Macs and obts, even my o. Sp. Blue does this (but then again it's a sling lol)

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## BobGrill (Apr 21, 2015)

lalberts9310 said:


> I have witnessed other species running continuously as well, not just poecis, Ts such as h. Macs and obts, even my o. Sp. Blue does this (but then again it's a sling lol)


Yeah H.maculata will run continuously as well when startled. The only time I've had an OBT do this was during a rehouse. My female maculata however does this everytime I touch the enclosure.

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## scott99 (Apr 21, 2015)

lalberts9310 said:


> good point, but I know there's some Australian species with venom that can kill dogs, not entirely sure what species though..


I have read that their bite can kill an adult German shepherd.


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## Storm76 (Apr 21, 2015)

THE DARK KNIGHT said:


> I have read that their bite can kill an adult German shepherd.


At least I haven't read any report of that over here. Besides, does it really matter?


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## Felidae (Apr 21, 2015)

Really doesn't matter in the case of "beginner, Poecilotheria, kids around, why not" and littlebit off topic too, but good to know.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12657322


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## awiec (Apr 21, 2015)

Storm76 said:


> At least I haven't read any report of that over here. Besides, does it really matter?


I think everyone can agree that aussie Ts are not to be trifled with, especially by impulsive teenagers. Though I think jig mentioned something about a dog dying from a bite but  my memory is foggy.

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## Poec54 (Apr 21, 2015)

awiec said:


> I think everyone can agree that aussie Ts are not to be trifled with, especially by impulsive teenagers. Though I think jig mentioned something about a dog dying from a bite but  my memory is foggy.



Yes, of the handful of reported cases, there is a 100% canine fatality rate from Australian T's.

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## Pociemon (Apr 21, 2015)

Storm76 said:


> At least I haven't read any report of that over here. Besides, does it really matter?


No, it does not matter as it is a situation that is highly unlikely to happen in captivity. At least from seroius keepers.


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## gobey (Apr 21, 2015)

Pampho85 said:


> Just a question, don't mean to nitpick or anything, but Poecs are Asian species, and baboons are only classified as African species (if I am correct).
> But in any case, I'm jealous, Poecs are pretty nice to have haha. One of my younger cousins called them the jewels of India, wouldn't mind having a few jewels of my country when I'm more experienced  haha


I brainfarted and decided India wasn't in Asia for some reason.

And yes baboons are African Ts. I have a C. darlingi, a C. marshalli, an OBT, and an H
 Maculata.



awiec said:


> When people think Asian they think of Haplos and the such, pokies are pretty chill by Asian standards so people kinda forget about that grouping.


This is what I was thinking exactly.


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## Angel Minkov (Apr 22, 2015)

lalberts9310 said:


> I have witnessed other species running continuously as well, not just poecis, Ts such as h. Macs and obts, even my o. Sp. Blue does this (but then again it's a sling lol)


Well, yes. It can apply to all arboreals. I have not owned OW terrestrials except M. balfouri which is more of a fossorial and P. murinus which is... Everything.


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## Serafeimink (May 22, 2019)

awiec said:


> I was thinking more of C.darlingi and similar species. OBT, S.cals and H.macs make pokies look like kittens so I will agree with you there.


I actually read a post once where someone suggested an OBT as a first T.  Man would they be in for a handful LMAO...  I don't find OBT's attractive personally, i love their feeding response, but i don't think that should be a reason to get an OBT..

Reactions: Agree 1


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