# "mating" VS "breeding"



## tarcan (Dec 5, 2008)

Maybe it is my poor understanding of the english language not being my first one, but is it not different to breed and to mate?

I mean, I read on any boards (not just here) all the time, "tonight I bred my C. cyaneopubescens"! I really wonder how that can happen because it takes me several months to sucessfully breed any species... anyone has any tricks? I am not pointing at anyone in particular, it is just a general observation.

Anyway, maybe it is just me, but I find there are miles apart between a successful breeding and a sucessful mating so I think it would be nice if people would start making the distinction when they write the titles of the threads. They are sometimes very misleading. When I read " XX species breeding", I hope to see some pictures of babies or anything that would point out to a successfull breeding, not an announcement that someone mated one of their females.

Anyhow, sorry for the complaint, just that this bugged me for such a long time now, I just need to vent I guess! LOL

All the best in all your breeding projects!


Martin


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## clam1991 (Dec 5, 2008)

they are in a sense the same but it sounds better to say i bred something rather than i mated sometihng

its a personal thing
i choose to say breed another may choose mate


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## Talkenlate04 (Dec 5, 2008)

One of the definitions I find in my dictionary under “breed” is to impregnate/mate. 

Like I said in the other thread 99.99% of the time you know what the person is talking about when they say they just put a mm in with their female to “breed” with her. You are not going to read that and think he got slings even though technically mate would have been the better term to use rather than breed.  
 If you want to get hung up on the semantics then I guess that is your prerogative, but so long as I understand the point I never saw the use of breed instead of mate being that big of a deal.


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## Moltar (Dec 5, 2008)

The two words are more or less synonomous in american english lexicon. For our purposes here, the actual usage breaks down like this.

Mating is the physical act of two animals coupleing or the keepers direct attempt to pair those two creatures.

Breeding refers more to the overall effort that a keeper puts into the process including getting them to actually mate but not limited strictly to that. Temp/humidity changes, relocating to a breeding box, watching over the eggsac, finding the male, fattening up the female, etc. All of those things could be said to fall under the umbrella of "breeding".

You probably won't find those distinctions in any dictionary. That's just how I percieve the actual useage here to break down. Language can be a b!+ch, eh?

Ok, now could you teach me french, sil vous plait?


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## betuana (Dec 5, 2008)

With the terms breed vs mate - in the animal industry the term breed is often used to describe the impregnating of the animal, thought mate is used occasionally. But I more often hear someone saying they are going to breed their female in reference to the whole process, and not just in reference to the success of it. If they succeed they'll say they have a gravid animal, eggs, babies, etc. If they are just mating the animals, they will usually use the words mate and breed interchangably. But I regularly hear statements of "this horse has been bred" or something similar meaning an attempt has been made to impregnate the horse, but not necessarily an indicator of success (in fact, in the vet field, they might tell a vet the bred a horse, cow, etc because they want the vet to come in and check (via palpation, ultrasound, etc) to see if the breeding took. They don't nearly as often say they mated the horse. The only times I hear that is "I mated this animal with that animal" and even then I hear the words mated and bred used interchangably.)

The word breed is used almost exclusively when discussing impregnating an animal using artificial insemination (unless they use the word impregnate, but AI is not 100% certain either). Someone will talk about having bred a cow, horse, etc using AI (they didn't mate them at all, since it was done using AI), but they will talk about if the breeding took or not. If they have sucess, they say they 'sucessfully bred' the animal instead of just 'bred' the animal, as a general rule. At least, this is what I've noticed in my interactions with farmers, breeders, vets, owners, etc...

But usually, here I read breeding as meaning had the animals copulate sucessfully (instead of the female munching the male or something), and when she produces its usually an announcement of an egg sac or something similar, not a breeding...

I can kind of see your point about some confusion, but I think usually the post does well to clarify if the person meant breed as in the act, or breed as in babies are here, etc. Its hard to convey meaning just in a title, thats why there is a whole post.

But as far as semantics go, the word breed can be defined as the act of impregnating (or attempted impregnating). So whether the person say "I'm going to mate these animals", "I'm going to breed these animals", "I'm going to have these animals copulate" or any other variety, the statement indicates an intent to have the animals reproduce.

On the flip side, I have occasionally heard people say they mated their pet, when they mean they have produced several liters, etc. Not as common to hear that, but I've heard the wording from more than one person, so its possible that someone might read mated as successfully produced as well.

In one of my classes they explained that written communication is actually very tricky and must be used with caution, because people will read things differently. They don't have the tone of voice to go on, and they may interpret information in a different way.
Examples:

_I read your email._
Do they mean: "I read that email you sent to me?" or "I read the emails you receive in your inbox."

_It's raining!_
Is it drizzling? A downpour? Is this a bad thing because its not sunny, or a good thing because its been dry? You can't tell just from the statement and need further explanation to understand more than the idea that there is some water coming out of the sky..

_This dog's ear is inflammed._
Is it super red, painful, hot to the touch, severely infected and needing immediate treatment? Or is it a bit darker pink than normal and needing monitoring? Inflammed could mean either thing.

_My T won't eat!_
Has it not eaten in 1 day? 1 month? 1 year? What was it last fed - a pinhead, a mouse, etc? A T that was fed a mouse yesterday probably won't eat today, an juvie T getting a small cricket 6 months ago and still not eating may be a cause for concern.

Anyways, the point is that it doesn't really matter if someone says bred or mated in the subject, because either way will likely require further explanation in the post as to if it was just now, or an announcement because a sac was just layed, or if there are now babies, etc. As longs as the post isn't something like "Title: Bred Ts! Post: Yay! I managed to get my Ts to breed!" then I don't think there really is much confusion about it.

But everyone is of course entitled to their own opinion as to whether the interchangable use of the words mate and breed is confusing. I just feel that the context it is used in tends to help explain it.


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## tarcan (Dec 5, 2008)

Thanks for the explanation and sorry again for the "double post" about this, was a mistake.

Like I said, I udnerstand what is being said, I had just wondered if it was proper use of the word or not.

I think it might be because in french, the corresponding terms are not interchangeable, so I always kept them very seperate in english as well.

Take care

Martin


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## Pokerplayer (Dec 5, 2008)

Dont worry m8 or mate :} 

In the US, the mix up a lot of things...hehe

Were i come from (Denmark/Europe) a Tarantula is by science ONLY those small spiders u find in your home naturally.
There fangs is crossing each other.
The spider in here is ONLY called birdeating spiders and there fangs is running parallel.
That is one of the ways u tell them apart.

So i guees we just have 2 live with it (us "stupid" none americans   )


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## the nature boy (Dec 5, 2008)

tarcan said:


> Maybe it is my poor understanding of the english language not being my first one, but is it not different to breed and to mate?


No difference.  The dude spider bangs the chick spider and she gets knocked up.

--the nature boy


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## David Burns (Dec 5, 2008)

IMO mating is not breeding.  There is a difference between a successfully bred female and a successfully mated female.


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## Philth (Dec 5, 2008)

Interesting point Martin.  Im sure Im guilty of saying it both ways.  As mentioned above most people havent pointed out my error, As its so commonly used both ways.

On a side note one thing that always bugged me are people who sell "Proven Breeder" females, when in fact all the spider has done was mate. (big deal thats the easy part )

Later, Tom


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## T_DORKUS (Dec 5, 2008)

David Burns said:


> IMO mating is not breeding.  There is a difference between a successfully bred female and a successfully mated female.


For the rest of the English speaking world, this is true.  But in the US, anything goes.  Take, for example, the word "bad".  In the US, it can mean 'bad' or 'good'.  I'd like to take the punk who started using the word 'bad' to mean 'good' and strangle him for making it so damn confusing.


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## DrAce (Dec 6, 2008)

This is a difference between 'technical' speak, and 'common' speak.

_TECHNICALLY_:
Breeding is the whole process, up until making babies sucessfully.
Mating is getting boy and girl to dance the 16-leg tango.

In common language, this is actually a pretty subtle difference.

Not unlike 'listening' to music, and 'hearing' music.  (listening implies conscious attention on the sound).


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## jb7741 (Dec 6, 2008)

the nature boy said:


> No difference.  The dude spider bangs the chick spider and she gets knocked up.
> 
> --the nature boy



Sorry folks, this is by far the best explanation. Good job NB.:clap:


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## Drachenjager (Dec 6, 2008)

mating can be done even with out the intention of producing offspring. Trust me on this. I don't want more kids lol 
breeding is done with the intent to produce offspring. One definition is to impregnate. With Tarantulas this is sort of not right. The male inserts the sperm and the eggs are only fertilized once she lays them . Until then she is not impregnated. Females can and will be gravid with out ever being mated. This MAY result in a dud egg sac. Females may be gravid, have the sperm stored and molt. In this case they were in fact bred but never produced. 
I prefer to use the term bred or breeding as opposed to mating because mating is such a broad term. And when we put male and female Ts together it is with the intention to produce offspring ...except all I did is feed my t blondi... but that's another topic lol


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## Drachenjager (Dec 6, 2008)

David Burns said:


> IMO mating is not breeding.  There is a difference between a successfully bred female and a successfully mated female.


what about an unsuccessfully bred female lol Say she lays a sac and you let it dry up. ot she lays a sac and mites get it. or she was too close to molt and she molts and looses eggs and sperm?
its impossible to "impregnate" at tarantula so either term is valid.


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## barabootom (Dec 6, 2008)

Drachenjager said:


> mating can be done even with out the intention of producing offspring. Trust me on this.


I'm not a biologist, but I do believe the list of animals that mate for pleasure only is a small list.  Most animals mate with the intent to produce offspring.  

I am a language teacher and  I recognize that language is always changing, so I hate nitpicky semantics.  What's more important is the message.  In my American English, mate and breed are the same thing.


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## Tie Black (Dec 6, 2008)

A tarantula "breeder"'s goal is to get babies from his/her spiders....
I've no idea what a tarantula "mater" does? Passes her on to a "breeder" perhaps?? 
Actually, I've never heard of a tarantula "mater".

The words have different meanings and should be used accordingly.
If you've mated a tarantula....you've not really accomplished much.
If you've bred a tarantula....you've got spiderlings.


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## Dom (Dec 6, 2008)

Tie Black said:


> The words have different meanings and should be used accordingly.
> If you've mated a tarantula....you've not really accomplished much.
> If you've bred a tarantula....you've got spiderlings.


Exactly. Back in the day (20+ years ago) before breeding herps was done on the scale it is today I'd run into lots of people that would say "I've bred/ been breeding  species "X"". Only after further digging was it revealed that they hadn't actually produced offspring, and that the species in question had been merely mating/copulating. The serious hobbyists at that time were aware of the different meanings/connotations of the 2 words and never used them interchangably. At least then you all knew you were on the same page and didn't have to make assumptions or end up in a longer than necessary discussion dissecting what stage anyone was in their breeding programs.


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## barabootom (Dec 7, 2008)

Tie Black said:


> A tarantula "breeder"'s goal is to get babies from his/her spiders....
> I've no idea what a tarantula "mater" does? Passes her on to a "breeder" perhaps??
> Actually, I've never heard of a tarantula "mater".
> 
> ...


The word mater doesn't exist so your argument doesn't hold much value.  We are talking about mate and breed, not mater and breeder.  If you mate your spider you may very well have bred her, you don't know, so why the fuss.  If I mate my T and then find out she is pregnant and is going to lay, then did I  not mate her because my samantics changed and now I bred her?  People like to call themselves breeders (now I'm talking about breeder and not to breed) because most breeders look for certain characteristics they want in the offspring in order to improve on the species.  So now if you are trying to choose the most colorful, or the largest, or the fastest growing specimens in order to breed them and improve on the desireable characteristics of ther species, then you can call yourself a breeder.  However, the verbs to mate or to breed are the same if you are talking about the act of procreation. That's my take on it.  (I always scored very high on language portions of tests like ACT and PSAT, not that I'm right or wrong here but this is how I understand the two terms.)


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## Kacey Jennings (Dec 7, 2008)

Well Well Well, picky picky.  In the United States, where I live, the terms are pretty much a synonym.  I speak my native language, and would like to think I have more than a basic grasp on said language.  let us look at the word mate.
#the officer below the master on a commercial ship
#teammate: a fellow member of a team; "it was his first start against his former teammates"
# the partner of an animal (especially a sexual partner); "he loved the mare and all her mates"; "camels hate leaving their mates"
# spouse: a person's partner in marriage
# match: an exact duplicate; "when a match is found an entry is made in the notebook"
# one of a pair; "he lost the mate to his shoe"; "one eye was blue but its fellow was brown"
# South American holly; leaves used in making a drink like tea
# copulate: engage in sexual intercourse; "Birds mate in the Spring"
# informal term for a friend of the same sex
# match: bring two objects, ideas, or people together; "This fact is coupled to the other one"; "Matchmaker, can you match my daughter with a nice young man?"; "The student was paired with a partner for collaboration on the project"
# South American tea-like drink made from leaves of a South American holly called mate 


Sooooo as you can see, there are many definitions for words, not just the one that you learned. Quit being picky.  If the author gets his point across, it was effective, no?:wall: :wall: :wall:


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## barabootom (Dec 7, 2008)

Kacey Prime said:


> Well Well Well, picky picky.  In the United States, where I live, the terms are pretty much a synonym.  I speak my native language, and would like to think I have more than a basic grasp on said language.  let us look at the word mate.
> #the officer below the master on a commercial ship
> #teammate: a fellow member of a team; "it was his first start against his former teammates"
> # the partner of an animal (especially a sexual partner); "he loved the mare and all her mates"; "camels hate leaving their mates"
> ...



Hurray!!!  You are exactly correct.  :clap:


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## Lopez (Dec 7, 2008)

tarcan said:


> Maybe it is my poor understanding of the english language not being my first one, but is it not different to breed and to mate?
> 
> I mean, I read on any boards (not just here) all the time, "tonight I bred my C. cyaneopubescens"! I really wonder how that can happen because it takes me several months to sucessfully breed any species... anyone has any tricks? I am not pointing at anyone in particular, it is just a general observation.
> 
> ...


I have to agree with you Martin. In America it might be acceptable to say that mating and breeding are the same thing. I don't agree.

If I told people in the UK or Europe that I had bred or been breeding M.balfouri, they would want to know how many spiderlings I had got from the breeding. 

Mating is just that - mating. I mate with my girlfriend regularly, but we haven't bred anything!


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## barabootom (Dec 7, 2008)

Lopez said:


> I have to agree with you Martin. In America it might be acceptable to say that mating and breeding are the same thing. I don't agree.
> 
> If I told people in the UK or Europe that I had bred or been breeding M.balfouri, they would want to know how many spiderlings I had got from the breeding.
> 
> Mating is just that - mating. I mate with my girlfriend regularly, but we haven't bred anything!


It might be correct in Great Britain but the definition is less strict in American English.  There are definitely differences in our English language.  That's why, if you study English seriously in Latin America, you choose an American English school or a British English school, not just an English language school.  Some would say that the correct English is the British English because Britain is home of the mother language and everything else is a degradation.  I, however, believe that language is not static and if many people use it in a way that does not follow a textbook and are communicating with it, then it is correct and who cares what the stuff shirts say?  So I would say there is more than one way to use the terms to breed and to mate so neither of us is really wrong.  Now if you don't mind mate, I need to go to the market so I'm taking the lift downstairs so I can fix my lory.


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## Drachenjager (Dec 7, 2008)

barabootom said:


> It might be correct in Great Britain but the definition is less strict in American English.  There are definitely differences in our English language.  That's why, if you study English seriously in Latin America, you choose an American English school or a British English school, not just an English language school.  Some would say that the correct English is the British English because Britain is home of the mother language and everything else is a degradation.  I, however, believe that language is not static and if many people use it in a way that does not follow a textbook and are communicating with it, then it is correct and who cares what the stuff shirts say?  So I would say there is more than one way to use the terms to breed and to mate so neither of us is really wrong.  Now if you don't mind mate, I need to go to the market so I'm taking the lift downstairs so I can fix my lory.


while you are there can you pick me up a pack of fags and toss them in the boot?


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## gambite (Dec 7, 2008)

mating = sex

breeding = the overall process of trying to get babies from your animals


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## The Red Queen (Dec 7, 2008)

Throwing in my 2 cents, as an American who has been living in Canada for 3 years...


Martin (Tarcan) and I have a rather large tarantula collection, and we _attempt to breed_ many of them.  With so many animals, it is important for us to keep our definitions of certain words and phrases clear.  For us, mating and breeding are two different events.  Let me try to explain what these words and phases mean for us:

*Mating/mated:* In an average year, we "mate" around 100 pairs of tarantulas, meaning the male has copulated with the female and we observed the insertion. We do not consider a "mated" female to be bred.  We have lots of mated females, but they do not all result in a successful breeding.  When a female has been mated we know that she has the potential to produce an eggsac, so we give her extra attention, making sure she is well fed and has the proper temperature and humidity.

From these "matings" we average 35 successful eggsacs per year, a successful eggsac being one that yields live offspring (dud eggsacs or females eating/abandoning the eggsacs do not count).  

*Breed/bred:* When we have a tarantula pair, mate them, and get a successful eggsac (in other words, have been involved in the process from start to finish) then we say we have successfully "bred" this species.  

If we send a mature male out on loan, we have not bred the species.
If we receive a gravid female from another source who produces an eggsac while in our care, we have not bred the species.

*Have Bred/ Actively Breeding/ Attempting to Breed:* When we work with specimens, mate pairs, and it results in an eggsac(s), then we "have bred" the species.  When we work with several specimens of a specific species, _consistantly _have successful eggsacs, and _consistantly _repeat the process, then we say we are "actively breeding" the species.  If we work with specimens, mate pairs, but do not yet have successful eggsacs, then we are "attempting to breed" the species.


So anyway, everyone here on the boards can use the word mating and breeding as they want.  This is just the way Martin and I use these words here at our place.  Like I said, with so many animals, if we do not keep things clear, it can get pretty confusing to keep track of everything.


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## Drachenjager (Dec 8, 2008)

The Red Queen said:


> Throwing in my 2 cents, as an American who has been living in Canada for 3 years...
> 
> 
> Martin (Tarcan) and I have a rather large tarantula collection, and we _attempt to breed_ many of them.  With so many animals, it is important for us to keep our definitions of certain words and phrases clear.  For us, mating and breeding are two different events.  Let me try to explain what these words and phases mean for us:
> ...


the real problem lies with the fact that English in any form sucks for a language.
A horse that was has been bred can mean she is pregnant or that she has a little one chasing after her. Many horse breeders refer to a mare that has been mounted by a stud as a bred mare. She may or may not foal but...
since a T dosent get pregnant, the term if pretty bogus
Also, since a T can lay an egg sac with out ever being in the same country as a male of her species your reply is even more bogus. You seem to imply that only a mated T can produce an egg sac at all.
ANYWAY. ITs probably best to get the terms straight lol
maybe we shoudl all speak Greek or German


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## clam1991 (Dec 8, 2008)

guys the op just wanted to know why some people used the word mate and some use breed

and im sure if he had a hard time understanding why people used mate and breed then how is he going to understand all this gibberish?


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## The Red Queen (Dec 8, 2008)

Drachenjager said:


> Also, since a T can lay an egg sac with out ever being in the same country as a male of her species your reply is even more bogus. You seem to imply that only a mated T can produce an egg sac at all.


When exactly did I imply an unmated female could not produce an eggsac?  I did not bring up phantom eggsacs in my post because I thought it was obvious that a female who has never been with with a male cannot have a fertile eggsac or successfully bred.  I fail to see anything "bogus" in my post.


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## DrAce (Dec 8, 2008)

The Red Queen said:


> When exactly did I imply an unmated female could not produce an eggsac?  I did not bring up phantom eggsacs in my post because I thought it was obvious that a female who has never been with with a male cannot have a fertile eggsac or successfully bred.  I fail to see anything "bogus" in my post.


Agreed.  There was nothing to imply that an infertile sac would count as a mating or a breeding.


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## metallica (Dec 8, 2008)

Martin you big party pooper! what's next, i can't say my tarantula is gravid anymore?


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## The Red Queen (Dec 10, 2008)

metallica said:


> what's next, i can't say my tarantula is gravid anymore?


Damn right!  LOL!;P


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