# Cornsnake breeds



## intrepidus6 (May 22, 2006)

A breeder is going to be letting me buy a cornsnake in a few weeks, and they said that it was going to be an extremely rare breed.  The mother snake is a motley creamsicle, and the father is a candycane.  I just wanted to make sure this really is a rare breed, and that I'm not being ripped off.  
Thanks!


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## JungleGuts (May 22, 2006)

yes, i would say so but i cant be 100% positive


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## intrepidus6 (May 22, 2006)

Like, compared with other breeds, just how rare is this snake?

And, thanks again by the way!


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## Mushroom Spore (May 22, 2006)

intrepidus6 said:
			
		

> Like, compared with other breeds, just how rare is this snake?


The word you're looking for is "morph" by the way.  There's only one breed of corn snake, and that is "corn snake". All this creamsicle/candycane/blizzard stuff is only descriptors of the natural variations in the species that have been encouraged and developed by breeders.

As for morphs, meh. I have absolutely no idea what 'official' morph would come from those parents, if any. http://www.cornsnake.net/cornprice.php3 lists nothing of the sort, not even "motley creamsicle". You'd probably end up with some creamsicle babies and some candycane babies, maybe a few normals depending on how the genetics and ancestry all work out. Or random hodgepodges of the parents' traits, which might or might not look cool but certainly wouldn't be SUPER RARE, since absolutely *anyone* can breed a creamsicle and a candycane.

You're probably being ripped off. People pull this OMG SUPER RARE MORPH crap all the time. I've seen perfectly normal ball pythons on sale for thousands, under made-up fancy morph names that people will fall for.


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## reverendsterlin (May 22, 2006)

outside of a breeding project these are probably overpriced, though under $50 would be fair (maybe). things a breeder would look at is if these have 'het' traits they are looking for. creamsicle is a red albino line bred to show the most orange, a candycany is a line bred red albino to eleminate orange. seems like your getting red albinos worth $20.
Rev


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## Steffen (May 23, 2006)

I agree, you are being ripped off. No corn morph in this world, is rare anymore. ;P


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## joey (May 23, 2006)

*rare!!! cornsnake*

just to add my opinion,,,, if you like the colour morph that the breeder is offering,, then you can make up your own mind whether or not it is worth the money..  
A lot of snake keepers can be really snobby about corns, but i think they are a great snake, i have 4 , all different morphs, cos i couldnt decide which i liked best!!   
If you are buying to purposely breed, than beware, cos the offspring will possibly be everything in the bloodline.. 
I would say it is more important that you like the colour morph, and that the snake is happy and healthy..

:}


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## intrepidus6 (May 23, 2006)

I think that they said they are asking like 60$
What exactly is a "regular old cornsnake"?
And I just want the snake as a pet, not a breeder.


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## Gigas (May 23, 2006)

how much are lavendars  nowadays?


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## softturtle (May 23, 2006)

Steffen said:
			
		

> I agree, you are being ripped off. No corn morph in this world, is rare anymore. ;P


I would have to disagree with this.  There is tons of morphs that the public has not even seen yet, including one of a kind animals, so yes there will always be super rare corn snakes.  

$60 dollars is what you'd pay for a normal designer morph, so if your worried about gettin ripped of, tell him you want a certain morphe.  If you like the snake your breeder is showing you, thats all that matters.  The monitary value is nothing if you aren't breeding them so if you like it, buy it.  

beauty is in the eye of the beholder- thats you.


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## softturtle (May 23, 2006)

Gigus said:
			
		

> how much are lavendars  nowadays?


usually about $100 US.


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## Gigas (May 23, 2006)

kl thanks soft


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## widow_cr (May 23, 2006)

a corn snake is a corn snake is a corn snake. There are so many different generic names for color morphs out there and none of them are really the same. My favorites are the crimson red versions. you shouldnt pay much more for a colorful one than a not colorful one. Ill pay more for my corn snakes if they can juggle or do some spectacular trick.


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## Steffen (May 23, 2006)

softturtle said:
			
		

> I would have to disagree with this.  There is tons of morphs that the public has not even seen yet, including one of a kind animals, so yes there will always be super rare corn snakes.
> 
> $60 dollars is what you'd pay for a normal designer morph, so if your worried about gettin ripped of, tell him you want a certain morphe.  If you like the snake your breeder is showing you, thats all that matters.  The monitary value is nothing if you aren't breeding them so if you like it, buy it.
> 
> beauty is in the eye of the beholder- thats you.


Give me an example. A morph will never be rare. Combine a new morph and it will stay unique and rare for a few months untill they are massproduced like all the others. Its only genetic flaws enherited to the offspring. One of a kind animals? Give me an example of that too. It's all just colorvariations, crossbreeds and then crossbreeds again.

A truly rare variant would be the true okeetee (not the morph), since its distribution in nature is very limited.

So to quote widow_cr: a corn snake is a corn snake...


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## reverendsterlin (May 23, 2006)

here are two sites, serpwidget gives a great tutorial on corn snake morphs and genetics, http://www.serpwidgets.com/ . Mick on the otherhand provides the genetics program that gives you % predictions of offspring from various combinations, you'll soon find out that without good genetic backgrounds on your animals (even as little as one unknown het trait) can greatly effect offspring, http://home.comcast.net/~spencer62/cornprog.html . If you or others are interested in corn snake breeding I highly recomend both sites. If you do purchase I suggest ckecking Kathy Love's cornutopia or Rich Zuchowski's site, both highly reputable dealers with prices to compare with.
Rev


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## Taceas (May 24, 2006)

Is it rare? Not by a long shot. Most Creams go for around $40-60 depending on their quality.

There are quite a few rare morphs of cornsnakes that cost $800+. And yes there is quite a bit of up and coming stuff, its not all the same ole stuff anymore. We just like to keep it quiet compared to those greedy Ball Python folks. 

To be perfectly honest offspring from a Creamsicle Motley x Candy Cane would be a Creamsicle het Motley.

Creamsicles are an intergrade/hybrid, created by breeding a Cornsnake (Elaphe guttata guttata) to a Great Plains Ratsnake (Elaphe guttata emoryi). 

The Amelanistic versions are called Creamsicles because well, their color looks just like the tasty frozen treat. The normal color varieties are coined as Rootbeers, as their colors are around that brownish-red color. 

Which brings me back to my original statement, any "corn" with Emoryi blood in it must be called a Creamsicle to make the buyer aware that what they are getting is not pure corn by any means. It doesn't matter if its 50% Emoryi blood or 10%. Its just ethical honesty to name it as such. 

Also, a Candy Cane corn is an Amelanistic which is specially bred to accentuate the color scheme of a candy cane. 

Cornsnake genetics can be confusing at times, I know. If you want to learn more and poke around, I welcome you to join www.cornsnakes.com . There's a wealth of information there and a friendly atmosphere to kind of "grow-up" in. =)


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## softturtle (May 24, 2006)

Last year a friend of mine had had a batch of cornsnakes hatch out and one was different.  Out of a group of normal snow corns came a purple baby.  Next time I'm up north I will take a picture of this one-of-a-kind cornsnake.  I asked breeders at the NARBC show and they said they had never seen anything like this(and I think if they had one, they wouldn't have said anything anyways).  So yes there can always be one of a kind animals from all species.  Genetic mutations are all around, you just don't see them all the time.


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## Mushroom Spore (May 24, 2006)

softturtle said:
			
		

> Out of a group of normal snow corns came a purple baby.  Next time I'm up north I will take a picture of this one-of-a-kind cornsnake.


One of a kind? You mean like a lavender corn? 

http://www.moreptiles.com/lavender.htm

http://www.serpenco.com/shop/image.php?productid=16561


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## JungleGuts (May 24, 2006)

my friend will sell me his 2 year old ghost cornsnake for 45$...what do you think it would sell for on a reptile auction site? anyone have any idea?

dan


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## Steffen (May 24, 2006)

softturtle said:
			
		

> Last year a friend of mine had had a batch of cornsnakes hatch out and one was different.  Out of a group of normal snow corns came a purple baby.  Next time I'm up north I will take a picture of this one-of-a-kind cornsnake.  I asked breeders at the NARBC show and they said they had never seen anything like this(and I think if they had one, they wouldn't have said anything anyways).  So yes there can always be one of a kind animals from all species.  Genetic mutations are all around, you just don't see them all the time.


Thats not one of a kind.  As i said, even if there was one of a kind corns, they wouldn't stay one of a kind for a very long time. Animals with weird colors etc. hatch all the time, they are not rare or speciel in any way and they are definitely... DEFINITELY not worth more than any other normal cornsnake. It's an illusion created by the sellers and breeders, that's all!

I see these examples all the time, Boa c. with funny patterns, Python regius with a bit more yellow colors or grey colors. They hatch more often than you would think. I have friends who have had weird looking animals pop out their Pythons and Boas. Believe me, the so called "rarity" of these animals are an complete and artificial illusion, created to lure the money out of peoples pockets.


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## softturtle (May 25, 2006)

No its not a levender.  Its purple.  If it is its a lavender,it is patternless purple lavender (could be).  And about it not being one of a kind, I havent been able to find a pic of one even slightly simalar.  So in my eyes, its one of a kind.  

I don't get what you are saying about the "rarity" of these animals.  They aren't rare becuase there will be a bunch of them sometime?  

rare-  Infrequently occurring; uncommon: a rare event;(ex.) a plant that is rare in this region. 

adj 1: not widely known; especially valued for its uncommonness; "a rare word"; "rare books" 2: recurring only at long intervals; "a rare appearance"; "total eclipses are rare events" 3: not widely distributed; "rare herbs"; "rare patches of gree in the desert" 4: marked by an uncommon quality; especially superlative or extreme of its kind; "what is so rare as a day in June"-J.R.Lowell; "a rare skill"; "an uncommon sense of humor"; "she was kind to an uncommon degree" [syn: uncommon] 5: having low density; "rare gasses"; "lightheaded from the rarefied mountain air" [syn: rarefied, rarified] 6: (of meat) cooked a short time; still red inside; "rare roast beef"

Are you saying (for example) that there is as many blue eyed leucistic ball pythons as there are normal ones (mind you there wasn't one in captivity until the 90's so was it not rare when they found it?)?  If not, it means they are rare.  And the same goes for cornsnakes as well, unless there are the same amount of animals for every morph. lol

Do you think that becuase it consist of the same parts as a normal colored one that it isn't rare.  

Forgive me if I seem as though I am attacking someone, I am not, I just like a good debate.


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## Steffen (May 26, 2006)

I gave you a perfect example before.  

The true Okeetee cornsnake, that is rare. A colorvariant is not rare. It is just a genetic flaw. I don't care if there is one or a million of that color out there, just cross some different mutations and you will have a new morph again. It's not rare. It is still in fact a cornsnake.  



> mind you there wasn't one in captivity until the 90's so was it not rare when they found it?)?


Yup the color was rare, but it is simply a genetic *flaw* and it should in fact be less worth than a normal colored animal, but some greedy people turned that upside down. But the question of the topic, your being ripped off... even if it was rare, because soon it wont be rare anymore again. Why do people not like albino people better than the normal ones? They are all white and red eyed!


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## softturtle (May 26, 2006)

Steffen said:
			
		

> Why do people not like albino people better than the normal ones?


I bet if people were buying humans they would like them better.  
You know that a Okeetee is a color variant, right?  It was a genetic flaw. It is still Elaphe guttata guttata, nothing more.  Is it becuase it was found in the wild that makes it rare?  Those snakes range for a few counties, some designers only range is only one persons snake room.
But I guess this all boils down to the market.  People will continue to buy these snakes for lots of money becuase they are rare.  And I don't think it is going to change since the market will not get flooded with them (becuase they are not available like normal) and the prices will ride on that.  It as all just personal opinion I guess.  No snake is really worth more than another, but if you think like this, nothing is of value.


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## softturtle (May 26, 2006)

Steffen said:
			
		

> But the question of the topic, your being ripped off... even if it was rare, because soon it wont be rare anymore again.


It might not be really rare but $60 for a corn is not bad.  If you like it get it.


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## Steffen (May 26, 2006)

> You know that a Okeetee is a color variant, right?


Nope it's not. The captive bred morph is. That is what I was pointing out, but I didn't succed, it seems.   The true Okeetee from the Okeetee hunt club differs from the morph Okeetee and all other cornsnakes in both size and colors. However the colors are not different, simply just stronger.

But then again, the normal form is a colorvariant aswell, but that is not the point what so ever. All those captive bred colormorphs are simply not rare. I could cut of the tale of one of my snakes, and then it would be different aswell. Can I call my snake rare then? And yes I CAN compare this, because now python regius is being bred without skeels aswell and that is exactly the same... it is missing parts of its physical aspects. Hail and glory to the morph breeders! :evil:


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## Thoth (May 26, 2006)

JungleGuts said:
			
		

> my friend will sell me his 2 year old ghost cornsnake for 45$...what do you think it would sell for on a reptile auction site? anyone have any idea?
> 
> dan


Thats a good price for a 2 year old corn (seeing hatchlings at most shows go for $20-25). I'd be suprised it goes for more than $75


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## softturtle (May 29, 2006)

Steffen said:
			
		

> Nope it's not. The captive bred morph is. That is what I was pointing out, but I didn't succed, it seems.   The true Okeetee from the Okeetee hunt club differs from the morph Okeetee and all other cornsnakes in both size and colors. However the colors are not different, simply just stronger.
> 
> But then again, the normal form is a colorvariant aswell, but that is not the point what so ever. All those captive bred colormorphs are simply not rare. I could cut of the tale of one of my snakes, and then it would be different aswell. Can I call my snake rare then? And yes I CAN compare this, because now python regius is being bred without skeels aswell and that is exactly the same... it is missing parts of its physical aspects. Hail and glory to the morph breeders! :evil:


So they cut the scales off, huh?  And the Okeetee, a different species?


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## Steffen (May 30, 2006)

softturtle said:
			
		

> So they cut the scales off, huh?  And the Okeetee, a different species?


http://www.ballpython.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8291&sid=2ed7da361dcb4572a732eb4a7ef92f91


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## Mushroom Spore (May 30, 2006)

softturtle said:
			
		

> So they cut the scales off, huh?  And the Okeetee, a different species?


You're being needlessly confrontational.

Steffen: DEAR GOD WHY


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