# Environment set up (pics), so where are the Ghost morph Dune's



## signinsimple (Oct 22, 2007)

Hi all,

I want a Ghost morph dune scorpion to go with the Dessert Tank I set up (see pics).  I's also like a Blonde Dessert Hairy (don't worry, I'll either divide this tank or get another, the scorps will never see each other).  Any help would be greatly appreciated.  I've tried WTB's in the classifieds, calling tons of pet shops, and internet surfing till I'm blue in the face.  The blonde hairy is easy enough, but the ghost morph is as elusive as..well...a ghost.  

Sorry for the crappy quality pics but my digital camera is broken so I had to use a camera phone.


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## Brian S (Oct 22, 2007)

What the hell is a ghost morph dune scorp? Are you talking about the Smeringurus mesaensis pic that looks almost white? If so that is not a ghost morph. It is a freshly molted specimen. They look white after a molt until their exoskeleton hardens up then they turn the typical yellow color


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## intrepidus6 (Oct 23, 2007)

You shouldn't use sand that has been dyed.


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## signinsimple (Oct 23, 2007)

Brian S said:


> What the hell is a ghost morph dune scorp? Are you talking about the Smeringurus mesaensis pic that looks almost white? If so that is not a ghost morph. It is a freshly molted specimen. They look white after a molt until their exoskeleton hardens up then they turn the typical yellow color


Yes, Smeringurus mesaensis.  Only there is a ghost morph.  It's a color phase that is translucent in appearance.  It is not just after they molt, it is permanent.  This morph is found in Arizona along with the golden one.  California Dune Scorps are all golden from what I've read.  

Regarding the other post, the sand is _not _dyed.  It is aquarium sand and i've read numerous reputable sources that this sand is fine for desert scorpions.  It may be artificial, but it's perfectly fine for the scorpions, and I like the alien world look.


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## Canth (Oct 23, 2007)

Well, your tank looks cool. I too have never heard of it. But good luck in your search


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## signinsimple (Oct 23, 2007)

Canth said:


> Well, your tank looks cool. I too have never heard of it. But good luck in your search


Thanks Canth, I like it too.  If your interested, there is a picture of of a ghost morph scorp here:

http://www.goldenphoenixexotica.com/smesa.jpg

goldenphoenixexotica used to sell them, but the are closed for business indefinitely.  I really like the translucent morph, it picks up some of the color of whatever background you put the scorpion on.


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## Brian S (Oct 23, 2007)

Thats the pic I was thinking of. I still think it is a newly molted specimen


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## Rigelus (Oct 23, 2007)

Your scorpion will think it's on some cheesy Star Trek set if you put it in that.....:?  and as far as i know Brian is right..
There is a morph of mesaensis (from California?) that's got the common name "ghost" that is slightly lighter in colour than the Arizonan version however it's not as pronounced as you seem to think and most of the pictures you find online are obviously "hand picked" to emphasise the ghost morph...Seen in normal light under normal circumstances there's not really a lot of difference between them at all..


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## signinsimple (Oct 23, 2007)

Rigelus said:


> Your scorpion will think it's on some cheesy Star Trek set if you put it in that.....:?  and as far as i know Brian is right..
> There is a morph of mesaensis (from California?) that's got the common name "ghost" that is slightly lighter in colour than the Arizonan version however it's not as pronounced as you seem to think and most of the pictures you find online are obviously "hand picked" to emphasise the ghost morph...Seen in normal light under normal circumstances there's not really a lot of difference between them at all..


Appreciate the critique and all, but the scorpions not gonna think anything.  It's going to survive more than adequately in the environment I set up for it that mimics it's own natural environment in all but aesthetics (which I honestly believe is a concept the scorpion is incapable of grasping).

I harbor no illusions regarding how pronounced this ghost like quality is.  The morph is translucent.  It's not transparent.  I know this.  The pictures are accurate.  Multiple testaments on this site and others (from people not looking to sell any) and talking with suppliers who know exactly what I'm talking about but unfortunately do not have any right now (and don't know when they will) tell me this.  I've done my homework and know what I want.  Just not where to find it.  Why would you think there is a supplier wide conspiracy to overemphasize the translucency simply because you haven't seen ones that translucent?


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## Rigelus (Oct 24, 2007)

Fair enough. The only examples i have seen are my own so maybe there are other examples out there that are more translucent in their morph than what i experience with mine.
So here's a couple of pictures so you can judge for yourself, maybe it's just me..
First up is a male normal morph from arizona







and here's a female ghost morph collected from the largest insect trade show in Europe, namely Hamm.







I know of course that it's a personal thing how we all choose to keep our scorpions and if you want red sand with balls and lights then that's up to you, however if that sand isn't consolidated then this sentence is incorrect



> It's going to survive more than adequately in the environment I set up for it that mimics it's own natural environment


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## pandinus (Oct 24, 2007)

i have on occasion seen a few of the "ghost morphs" although they are a more translucent, they are still very much a golden color, and are not nearly as clear as in that pic. If i had to use something as a comparison, i would say that they are very similar to the Buthacus spp. currently available as "egyptian green" scorpions, (i cant remember how to spell the sp. name right now).


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## signinsimple (Oct 29, 2007)

Rigelus said:


> Fair enough. The only examples i have seen are my own so maybe there are other examples out there that are more translucent in their morph than what i experience with mine.
> So here's a couple of pictures so you can judge for yourself, maybe it's just me..
> First up is a male normal morph from arizona
> 
> ...


Hi Rigelus,
Sorry for the late reply.  I assume by 'consolidated' you mean the sand has been cleaned, wet, and let to dry to make it suitable for burrowing (so it doesn't collapse on the little guys)?  If so, I have done this.  If it means something else, kindly let me know (I'd appreciate it.  Like I said, I've done my homework, but I'm still new to this so any and all help is appreciated).  There actually are no lights in the aquarium.  There are a few stones that reflect blacklight, but that's it (I've done some checking and the stones should be safe.  They are made to be in water aquariums with fish, so if the blacklight reflective stuff does not dissolve in water, the scoprs should be ok with it.  if you know otherwise, let me know and I'll take them out...don't worry, I won't be using the blacklight all that much.  Just once in a while to appreciate the scorps glowing quality under it, and if it seems to bother them I'll stop that too).  Cool scorpions by the way.

Brian S,

Your comments are appreciated as well.

Many thanks all.


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## Rigelus (Oct 30, 2007)

> I assume by 'consolidated' you mean the sand has been cleaned, wet, and let to dry to make it suitable for burrowing


Correct.

As for the balls i can't see how they could harm a scorpion, it's just that they seem pretty redundant. Your scorpions won't be able to crawl over them (glass at an angle x scorpion feet = no go) plus i could imagine that a scorpion could be tempted to try and wedge itself in between them presenting the risk of the ball structure cascading down over the scorpion (ok, so there is a possiblity of harm)...

The orthodoks approach would of course be to use bark, wood or stone as surface furniture...traditional i know but with a bit of imagination you can create both functional and interesting habitats with these simple means....especially if you have some good sand that consolidates well. 
Another thing would be that instead of creating a straightforward undulating surface (2 dimensional) type of habitat you could build it up in layers using consolidated sand and stones to create 3 dimensional surfaces...
Heres an example of a recent habitat i made for a female B.leptochelys.Theres a spiraling tunnel system under the sand that she has adopted without change. The entrance is located near the bottom of the terrarie yet the surface area is higher up. 







Still, as i said last time it's a personal thing how we keep our scorpions and if your set up works for you then thats the way it is...............although i still think it looks like a cheesy Star Trek set..


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## Michiel (Oct 30, 2007)

The enclosure looks like a whorehouse without women  But ofcourse, tastes differ luckily, if we all found the same things nice it would be boring


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## sick4x4 (Oct 30, 2007)

i agree with the dyed sand.  i would of went more natural..besides they do have sand that mimics many dessert terrains...(mojave, Kimberli, ect. ect.)

and for the ghost morph????????:?  i dont think i have ever heard of or seen one???? i hate to reiterate but it could of been a freshly molted scorp in the pic. i have seen light phased ones but the yellow is still pretty distinguishable...sorry mate

wayne


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## signinsimple (Oct 30, 2007)

Rigelus said:


> Correct.
> 
> As for the balls i can't see how they could harm a scorpion, it's just that they seem pretty redundant. Your scorpions won't be able to crawl over them (glass at an angle x scorpion feet = no go) plus i could imagine that a scorpion could be tempted to try and wedge itself in between them presenting the risk of the ball structure cascading down over the scorpion (ok, so there is a possiblity of harm)...
> 
> ...


Yeah, I kind of like the alien world space theme.  I do like star trek though.  And that background is an actual picture of a Nebulae taken by the Hubble Telescope, so it's actually a natural background..just not earthly.  Yours is cool too though.  I like the structure.  My set up actually is 3 dimensional, it's just a hilly terrain with dips and cave-tunnels dug into the hills rather than a layered rocky terrain.  The colorful sand consolidated quite well actually, and the black caves I made should serve as good start up burrows.  Thanks for the tip though.  I'll likely use it in the future if I get some flatrock scorps or something. The marbles were stuck into the sand in cannon ball formation while the sand was still wet and before it hardened.  They are surprisingly stable and I doubt very much a scorpion could budge them.  they are meant to be barriers but if it looks like the scorps could get injured by them, out they will come.



Michiel said:


> The enclosure looks like a whorehouse without women  But ofcourse, tastes differ luckily, if we all found the same things nice it would be boring


Interesting whore houses you've been to  



sick4x4 said:


> i agree with the dyed sand.  i would of went more natural..besides they do have sand that mimics many dessert terrains...(mojave, Kimberli, ect. ect.)


Opinions vary.  Natural is boring to me.  And the sand is not dyed.  Dyed sand could not be used for a fish aquarium (which this sand could be used for).  The dye would leach into the water.



sick4x4 said:


> and for the ghost morph????????:?  i dont think i have ever heard of or seen one???? i hate to reiterate but it could of been a freshly molted scorp in the pic. i have seen light phased ones but the yellow is still pretty distinguishable...sorry mate
> wayne


I suppose the pictures online of the ghost morph Dune Scorpion could all be freshly molted Dune's...part of a clever and sadistic conspiracy to drum up demand for a non existent scorpion.  Anything is possible.  But not seeing or hearing of something is not evidence against it's existence, and I've spoken to enough people who know about it to be confident that this scorpion exists.  I even found a guy who had some, knows where to get them, but since it's too cold out now, not enough of them could be gathered to make the trip to harvest them worthwhile (apparently it's a long trip).  So I'm stuck looking for someone who still has leftovers from an earlier expedition.  Oh well.

Again, any help finding the actual scorpion I am looking for would be appreciated.


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## sick4x4 (Oct 30, 2007)

no worries mate i get that u like the none norm, its all good...but as far as the scorps go,  i'd listen to brian.... he knows quite a few true dealers and has been doing this for awhile now...understand alot of times to couture up interest, people tend to bend the truth alittle(saying they have a new color morph or a rare not normally available species) not saying this is the case here..just be-careful......

hope im wrong, it would be cool if indeed you do get some....

wayne


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## signinsimple (Oct 31, 2007)

Hi Wayne,

Yeah, I hope I find them as well.  If my search turns up no results soon, I'm gonna bite the bullet and get a golden Dune and Pale dessert hairy and pick up the ghost later if I ever come across one.  Ghost morph dune is definitely my ideal.  I hope no one thinks I don't appreciate the warnings.  I just found too much evidence to support their existence to worry that it might be a scam.


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## Zach Valois (Oct 31, 2007)

oh you AB guys are funny! (in a good way  )

  that photo from Darrin Vernier's website is a typical S. meseansis. I have personally collected this species with him, including the area in which the specimen pictured if from. Typical S. mesaensis from Maricopa county. I believe the flash, and angle exploited the low density of this specimen's cuticle.
I have been studying Vaejovids, esp. the Paruroctonus group (this includes Smeringurus) for years. There is nothing currently described that is a consistent
"ghostly" coloration, atleast that i know of. As Rigelus previously mentioned someone must be hand picking light colored specimens and foolishly dubbing them as "ghost morphs".....Although like he said it is possible i suppose that there are some disjunct populations, or ecotypes that for various reasons could have derived a light coloration. Though is would be scientifically significant.

 And Rigelus, i just love your setup. Although i like them to build there own burrow. Check some of mine out > http://atshq.org/forum/showthread.php?t=12982


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## Zach Valois (Oct 31, 2007)

in other words unless you can have the dealer prove that the specimen(s) key out to something other than a typical S. mesaensis, or come from a unique population DO NOT pay extra for a "ghost morph".


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## signinsimple (Nov 1, 2007)

Zach Valois said:


> oh you AB guys are funny! (in a good way  )
> 
> that photo from Darrin Vernier's website is a typical S. meseansis. I have personally collected this species with him, including the area in which the specimen pictured if from. Typical S. mesaensis from Maricopa county. I believe the flash, and angle exploited the low density of this specimen's cuticle.
> I have been studying Vaejovids, esp. the Paruroctonus group (this includes Smeringurus) for years. There is nothing currently described that is a consistent
> ...





Zach Valois said:


> in other words unless you can have the dealer prove that the specimen(s) key out to something other than a typical S. mesaensis, or come from a unique population DO NOT pay extra for a "ghost morph".


Thanks Zach.  I am not trying to say that "ghost morph" is a legitimate sub species or anything.  As far as I can tell it's just a dramatic label to describe one or the natural color phases of a dune scorpion.  Color phases occur naturally in almost all species of animal (including people  and alot of dealers I've talked to have had dune scorps come and go that were significantly more translucent looking than the traditional gold ones generally found in california (the translucent ones have come from select parts of AZ generally).  If Darrin Vernier is the guy from golden phoenix Exotica, I actually spoke to him after he had already moved (to washington I believe) and he said that the specimens he gathered from this one area were alot more translucent than other one's he's seen.  I wouldn't worry about dealers trying to charge a premium for this color phase (nor would I pay a significant one if they tried).  Not a single person I've talked to who has sold this lighter translucent phase has sold it for more than a typical dune scorpion price.  I guess what it boils down to is regardless of how we try to classify it, I'd like a dune scorp with a much lighter/translucent exoskeleton.  We can call it what we will.  Out of curiousity, what does AB mean?


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## Rigelus (Nov 1, 2007)

> And Rigelus, i just love your setup. Although i like them to build there own burrow. Check some of mine out > http://atshq.org/forum/showthread.php?t=12982


Thanks Zach and i can see by looking at yours that you to have a good eye for the natural, well done....Those are some smashing looking habitats you've created...Very inspirational..:clap: 



> I wouldn't worry about dealers trying to charge a premium for this color phase (nor would I pay a significant one if they tried). Not a single person I've talked to who has sold this lighter translucent phase has sold it for more than a typical dune scorpion price.


Yeah, i was suckered..I paid 10 Euro extra for my supposed "ghost morph" allthough at the end of the day i'm sure now that it is a bog standard S.mesaensis..........You live and learn eh!..


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