# Help me to Choose a Scorpion Please



## Najakeeper (Oct 15, 2011)

Hello,

I have recently downsized my spider collection significantly and I have space for a trio of scorpions. I have no idea what species to buy so I decided to ask the experts here. Can you please help me?

Here are my preferences:

Size: As big as it can be.
Hunting Style: With sting. (No Emperors  )
Tail Type: Thick tail preferred.
Color: Either jet black or very colorful.
Venom: Not that important but I'd prefer it to be below lethal range for us.
Environment: Desert preferred but others are OK.
Reproduction. Absolutely sexually.
Price Range: 0-250$ (for a pair or a 1.2 trio).

It doesn't have to be a 100% match, all suggestions are welcome.

Thanks!


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## Kaiser Scorpion (Oct 15, 2011)

You could buy Hadrurus arizonensis or Parabuthus villosus (but this is of medical importance).


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## Hendersoniana (Oct 15, 2011)

parabuthus transvaalicus


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## Najakeeper (Oct 15, 2011)

Thanks for the quick replies guys.

I think what I am looking for is Parabuthus villosus but the black morph.

Finding it is another story ofcourse.


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## Eclipse (Oct 15, 2011)

I 2nd the Parabuthus.. Parabuthus villosus also


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## Najakeeper (Oct 15, 2011)

So I have found a P.villosus pair. Male 17 months old and female is 21. 

How long do these live anyway?


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## Collin Clary (Oct 15, 2011)

Najakeeper said:


> So I have found a P.villosus pair. Male 17 months old and female is 21.
> 
> How long do these live anyway?


~5 years. Perhaps a little longer.


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## AzJohn (Oct 15, 2011)

Hottentotta judaicus 
Parabuthus transvaalicus No mentions. Really??????


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## Ludedor24 (Oct 15, 2011)

A. Bicolor perhaps , but very hot :\


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## Najakeeper (Oct 15, 2011)

Venom is not that important, I prefer milder venom but I have kept very hot venomous snakes for 10 years so I have the experience. 

One of the Parabuthus sp. sounds like what I want.


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## Najakeeper (Oct 19, 2011)

Alright, I agreed to buy a pair of a Parabuthus villosus. Male is 17 months old and female is 21months old. And best of all, they are the black color morph, which was one of my prerequisites.

I haven`t picked them up yet but we decided on a price of 80 Euros (110 USD), which sounded reasonable for a pair of adult blacks.

Here are the pictures:

Male:







Female:







I am already in love with them, they look awesome. 

Anyway, I am reading about them and setting them up before they arrive. Any pointers?


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## Deftones90 (Oct 19, 2011)

Good lookin scorps!


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## Kaiser Scorpion (Oct 19, 2011)

Ver nice examples! Which is their length?


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## Ludedor24 (Oct 19, 2011)

Nice looking scorps!


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## Najakeeper (Oct 23, 2011)

I ended up getting a CB 6th instar female from a local reptile show instead of the adult pair but at the same show I saw the orange morph and they look awesome! I may end up getting an adult pair of those instead of the adult black pair since I have the juvenile black. By the way she was very aggressive while taking out of the container and did her best to sting me. She also ate an adult male S.lateralis right away! I think I like this genus!


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## Najakeeper (Oct 23, 2011)

Here is my new girl having some fun  :













And here is her enclosure:


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## Hendersoniana (Oct 23, 2011)

Nice enclosure, looks huge! P Villosus has the best looking tail with all them setae sticking out. Does yours burrow? Because my P Trans burrowed under the ground when i gave it quite a generous amount of substrate. Shes blocked itself under its burrow and is in serious premolt, anytime now .


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## Najakeeper (Oct 26, 2011)

No, she did not burrow yet as there isn`t enough sand in there to burrow. However she is using the stone hide that I made for her. I will add more sand this weekend. 

She is munching on her second male S.lateralis this week. How many are they supposed to eat in a week anyway?


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## Hendersoniana (Oct 26, 2011)

I feed my adult C mag one adult a week, unless she refuses. She hasnt eaten in weeks, she's still fat.


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## Tarantel (Oct 27, 2011)

That female is funny looking in the pic you took of her on the last page.  Her eyes are kind of looking at the camera like "What are you lookin' at?". Nice scorpions, I hope you enjoy them. (Don't get stung


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## snippy (Oct 27, 2011)

You won't need to feed them any more then once every two weeks or so. This is absolutely sufficient for an adult P. villosus.

And sorry, but the substrate looks unfit. P. villosus needs proper, stable substrate, that can be dug and tunneled - and more of it. And why not offer more and better places to retreat to than this stone thingy? 

Regards
Finn


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## Najakeeper (Oct 28, 2011)

Let me clear one thing 1st. I did not get the adult pair, I just got a 6th instar female. So please make your suggestions(including feeding) having that in mind.

I have a lot of experience with snakes, venomous snakes in particular and I have some experience with tarantulas but my experience is limited to one species with scorpions so please feel free to make suggestions.

As far as I see, she likes the rock hide I built for her. It is made of glued pieces of brick like material and it is very stable. As for substrate, I only have fine sand in there and it is absolutely not good for building. What alternatives do you guys think will work better?

Thanks


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## snippy (Oct 28, 2011)

Try the already "digable" (is there a proper term for this?) sand you can buy or in alternative get clay powder or something like that. Mix it (wet), let it dry and viola! 
Ah okey, thy are not adult. In 6th instar feeding once a week is fine. The rest stays as is.

Regards
Finn


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## Deftones90 (Oct 28, 2011)

Zoo med makes this clay substrate called excavator that I use with my desert burrowers and its great! I mix it with some sand or just cover the top with a very thin layer.


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## Najakeeper (Oct 31, 2011)

Thanks for all the advice!

I have bought the excavator substrate, mixed with water and dried it. Then mixed it with sand (60:40). The resulting substrate is a good 2 inches at least. I buried his rock hide within the substrate with a nice entrance hole. I think she loves the setup already as she started digging at lights out and she had a very nice exit hole in the morning. Funny how they instinctively know what I forgot. I think she will be OK! Maybe I will plant a tiny succulent plant in there. Pictures will follow.


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## Deftones90 (Oct 31, 2011)

Yeah that excavator is a GREAT product I love it


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## snippy (Nov 1, 2011)

How can the sand be of use "digging-wise" when you dried it prior to mixing it and putting it into the tank? It should logically not make a firm structure 
Usually it would have to be put into the tank while wet and dried in there.
And always let the substrate dry properly when housing arid scorpions in the tank, keep in mind the risk of mycosis!

Regards
Finn


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## 2nscorpx (Nov 1, 2011)

snippy said:


> Try the already "digable" (is there a proper term for this?) sand you can buy or in alternative get clay powder or something like that. Mix it (wet), let it dry and viola!
> Ah okey, thy are not adult. In 6th instar feeding once a week is fine. The rest stays as is.
> 
> Regards
> Finn


Can this type of substrate be used for sand-dwelling species (i.e. Hadrurus, Smeringurus) or just for desert species such as, in this case, Parabuthus?


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## snippy (Nov 1, 2011)

Sand with those qualities is great (I might even say essential) for all arid scorpions that dig burrows! I use it for all of mine except Hottentotta spp. and Hadogenes spp., because most of them simply don't make use of it.
But especially H. arizonensis digs like an excavator, I have had a tank with about 10" of proper substrate and the scorpion tunneled under it in no time. If it is their natural behavior, one should offer it the proper substrate.

Personally I do not use the premixed sand, because it is way to expensive when needed in greater quantities. I just take sand you would use for your child's sand box and add clay powder, moisten it properly and then apply it into the tank. When it dries (which can take up to 3 weeks depending on the tank) it hardens and makes for a great substrate for everything that digs.

Regards
Finn


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## 2nscorpx (Nov 1, 2011)

snippy said:


> This sand is great (I might even say essential) for all arid scorpions that dig burrows! I use it for all mine except Hottentotta spp., because most of them simply don't make use of it.
> But at least H. arizonensis digs like an excavator, I have had a tank with about 10" of proper substrate and the scorpion tunneled under it in no time. If it is their natural behavior, one should offer it the proper substrate.
> 
> Regards
> Finn


Ah, thanks. I have seen sand and gravel as a substrate for Hadrurus, Smeringurus, and other desert/sand dwellers, that was my reason for asking, to clarify.


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## snippy (Nov 1, 2011)

2nscorpx said:


> Ah, thanks. I have seen sand and gravel as a substrate for Hadrurus, Smeringurus, and other desert/sand dwellers, that was my reason for asking, to clarify.


I don't understand myself why that is. Personally I would qualify this choice of substrate as plain wrong keeping conditions.

Edit: Quick example of what it looks like when a burrowing scorpion has the right substate 






A female Scorpio maurus palmatus.

Regards
Finn


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## 2nscorpx (Nov 1, 2011)

Great picture! That looks like a very nice enclosure, very realistic...


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## Najakeeper (Nov 2, 2011)

Here is the current state of the terrarium;

Front:







Side:







Back:







She seems to love it so far, digging and rearranging etc. This whole substrate was perfectly flat at first .


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## snippy (Nov 2, 2011)

Much better than before!
But again, next time try to apply the moist mixture into the tank and let it dry there 

Regards
Finn


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## Najakeeper (Nov 2, 2011)

snippy said:


> Much better than before!
> But again, next time try to apply the moist mixture into the tank and let it dry there
> 
> Regards
> Finn


I will keep that in mind for the "orange" one that I am looking for .


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## High_Rolling_T (Nov 3, 2011)

Looks pretty nice!  Always fun to see what they do when re-arranging.

Interesting enclosure you have there. Did you make it?


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## Najakeeper (Nov 3, 2011)

High_Rolling_T said:


> Looks pretty nice!  Always fun to see what they do when re-arranging.
> 
> Interesting enclosure you have there. Did you make it?


I bought the enclosure in a reptile show in Hamm/Germany for a baby cobra, he outgrew it and the cage was put in storage. It is 40cmX20cmX20cm(16inX8inX8in). This glass cage design is very common in Europe from small cages like this to very big and heavy glass terrariums.

Anyway, I made the rock hide myself and the substrate was prepared according to the directions in this topic. She constantly digs and enlarges her hide, I think she is happy.


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## Najakeeper (Nov 5, 2011)

My girl drank sprayed spring water of the glass today, was very interesting to watch .


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## Najakeeper (Nov 6, 2011)

I was at the Frauenfeld show to buy some scorps today, my rough wish list of possibilities was:

Parabuthus villosus orange
Parabuthus heterurus
Parabuthus pallidus
Parabuthus liosoma
Parabuthus laevifrons
Parabuthus granulatus
Pandinus viatoris
Opistophthalmus wahlbergii
Scorpio maurus palmatus
Liocheles sp.

The guy had:
Parabuthus villosus orange
Parabuthus pallidus
Parabuthus liosoma amongst many other species from other genera.
And he said he had one female Parabuthus granulatus at home that he can sell.

I ended up buying a 6 instar male Parabuthus villosus orange. I have been wishing that I have bought the P.pallidus as well but anyway...

I will post some pictures when his enclosure is all set, he looks amazing though. Orange color is well visible all around his body.


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## fartbreath (Nov 6, 2011)

That female looks elegantly ravishing!


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## Najakeeper (Nov 6, 2011)

fartbreath said:


> That female looks elegantly ravishing!


I agree . And here is her ravishingly elegant mate 6th instar Parabuthus villosus oranje moprh male:







His terrarium is filled with moist excavator/sand mixture (as instructed) so he needs to stay in the temporary quarters until the mixture dries.


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## Hendersoniana (Nov 6, 2011)

ur making me jealous! Why did u forgo the pallidus? would've been a great parabuthus to add to ur parabuthus collection. Either way, great P Villosus orange morph, i love how certain parabuthus have their metasomas densly covered with setae, truly unique looking!


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## Najakeeper (Nov 6, 2011)

Essentially I had a 100 Euros put aside for this and I preferred to spend half of it on supplies to better the living conditions of some other animals. My dear wife offered to increase my cash limit (she loved the P.pallidus) but I said no. Of course I regretted my decision 27 milliseconds later but what's done is done .

Anyway, two scorpions are enough on top of 5 tarantulas, 1 green tree python, 1 blue tail monitor and 1 dog. I have a tendency to over-extend myself when it comes to pets. Fewer get more attention...


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## Hendersoniana (Nov 6, 2011)

haha i see, well anyway, congratulations again on your new buy! I must get one soon, after i upgrade tanks for all my inverts, something like your tank, just a tad smaller .


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## superuglyllc (Nov 6, 2011)

how many orange morphs are around anywhere? you got a prze right there , one of the nicest scorps i seen


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## shebeen (Nov 6, 2011)

Najakeeper, that's a nice tank.  One thing to keep in mind is that dry packed sand weighs 13lbs/gal.  Most reptile tanks are not built to hold this type of weight.  For deep sand enclosures, you're better off using fish aquariums.  They're built to take the weight.


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## Najakeeper (Nov 6, 2011)

Thanks for the warning mate. The enclosures are very well sealed with silicone and are quite sturdy. The amount of sand is approximately 4000 cubic cm, which is roughly a gallon I believe. The cages seem fine with that but I still hold them from the bottom during transportation.

Also, Europeans use high quality ingridients while building these things...


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## angrychair (Nov 6, 2011)

man I want a pair of these now


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## voldemort (Nov 7, 2011)

those stingers are ALL a thing of beauty, fatally attactive


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## Najakeeper (Nov 7, 2011)

Alright, here is the setup for both scorpions:







Orange in the new enclosure:







Black in the enclosure (bad picture, I know):







And here is the new male feeding:


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## Najakeeper (Nov 25, 2011)

P.villosus oranje UV


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## superuglyllc (Nov 25, 2011)

naja , u gotta mate that orange morph! i need one or 2 of those!!!  sick scorp man. really is great looking

---------- Post added 11-25-2011 at 11:45 PM ----------

ohh 1 question, can u mate an orange morph with a regular villosus?


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## 2nscorpx (Nov 26, 2011)

superuglyllc said:


> naja , u gotta mate that orange morph! i need one or 2 of those!!!  sick scorp man. really is great looking
> 
> ---------- Post added 11-25-2011 at 11:45 PM ----------
> 
> ohh 1 question, can u mate an orange morph with a regular villosus?


Yes, you can. I think you can actually mate different species entirely, maybe even genera, although the latter is probably something I made up. That is why we have "hybrids" such as Hottentotta jayakari salei. This is not encouraged in the hobby, by the way.


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## pavel (Nov 26, 2011)

Great looking scorps!


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## Najakeeper (Nov 26, 2011)

superuglyllc said:


> naja , u gotta mate that orange morph! i need one or 2 of those!!!  sick scorp man. really is great looking
> 
> ---------- Post added 11-25-2011 at 11:45 PM ----------
> 
> ohh 1 question, can u mate an orange morph with a regular villosus?


Mate, I live in Europe so getting scorps to States is not very feasible. I am not totally against cross species hybridization but I also don't see a point for it. However, villosusXvillosus is surely doable. Actually one of the points of getting 1 black and 1 oranje was to try this. We will see in a year or so if anything interesting comes out of it .


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## snippy (Nov 26, 2011)

I keep a pair black morph (female) and typical morph (male), they mated without a problem and share their tank in a calm manner. We will see what the offspring looks like 

However I will not sell the young. Either I will keep them to see what the second generation brings or depending on the result euthanize them.

Regards
Finn


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## D3N2 (Nov 26, 2011)

2nscorpx said:


> Yes, you can. I think you can actually mate different species entirely, maybe even genera, although the latter is probably something I made up. That is why we have "hybrids" such as Hottentotta jayakari salei. This is not encouraged in the hobby, by the way.


I always thought H. jayakari salei was a subspecies?  I did a quick search, and the 'species' seems to have been shifted back and forth from being its own species, H. salei, to a subspecies of H. jayakari jayakari, H. jayakari salei.  Although, there has been talk of 'hybridizing' between H. jayakari jayakari and H. jayakari salei, as far as I can tell, H. jayakari salei is it's own species/subspecies.

As far as breeding the two morphs, it should be okay, right?  I mean if they are just morphs of the same species.  It's kind of like crossing all the different morphs of Centruroides gracilis.


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## Bayushi (Nov 27, 2011)

D3N2 said:


> As far as breeding the two morphs, it should be okay, right?  I mean if they are just morphs of the same species.  It's kind of like crossing all the different morphs of Centruroides gracilis.


Morphs are just that... A morph of a certain specie. I in know way see them as seperate nor do I see the harm in mating one morph to another.  With C gracilis, it happens in the wild.  It is not like trying to mate a, for instance, P. transvaalicus witha P villosus (which i seem to remember reading about several years ago on this very forum...  maybe in the canadian section.) and creating a hybrid.  Ofcourse I could be totally wrong...


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## snippy (Nov 27, 2011)

D3N2 said:


> Although, there has been talk of 'hybridizing' between H. jayakari jayakari and H. jayakari salei, as far as I can tell, H. jayakari salei is it's own species/subspecies.


According to a paper from 2011 (that you probably read yourself), H. salei should be considered a MORPH of H. yajakari, meaning that they would be the same species. Whether that proposal has been widely accepted or not, I don't know.

http://www.science.marshall.edu/fet/euscorpius/p2011_124.pdf

Regards
Finn


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## Michiel (Nov 27, 2011)

It would be the same if an African american and a caucasian american would have sex.....or an asian american and a african american.....H.salei is a morph of H.jayakari and not the other way around, like Finn explained.


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## D3N2 (Nov 27, 2011)

snippy said:


> According to a paper from 2011 (that you probably read yourself), H. salei should be considered a MORPH of H. yajakari, meaning that they would be the same species. Whether that proposal has been widely accepted or not, I don't know.
> 
> http://www.science.marshall.edu/fet/euscorpius/p2011_124.pdf
> 
> ...


I'm sorry, I can see how my statement might have been misunderstood.  That part you quoted was in response to 2nscropx's statement:


2nscorpx said:


> That is why we have "hybrids" such as Hottentotta jayakari salei.


What I was trying to say is:
I thought H. salei/H. jayakari salei, depending on the most recent paper, is a valid species/sub-species.  Not some sort of man-made hybrid.  The only time I have read about this species/sub-species in relation to hybridizing is that someone hybridized/crossed H. jayakari/H. jayakari jayakari and H.salei/H. jayakari salei, again depending on the most recent paper.

I hope I got the message across this time...

Anyway, according to that paper you linked (which I actually have not read before, thanks ), they are the same species.  Though my 'point' still stands, in that H. salei/H. jayakari salei/H. jayakari 'pale morph' can be found in the wild and is not a mad-made hybrid.

---------- Post added 11-27-2011 at 08:38 PM ----------




Michiel said:


> It would be the same if an African american and a caucasian american would have sex.....or an asian american and a african american.....H.salei is a morph of H.jayakari and not the other way around, like Finn explained.


Yes, I have just read the paper and understood that there is only H. jayakari, with 2 morphs.  I'm not sure your example will be relevant though, when those 'races' have babies, we get biracial babies and not babies of either race.  With H. jayakari, we get either dark or light morph.  I do understand what you are trying to say though.


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## Abhorsen (Sep 12, 2016)

Najakeeper said:


> Here is the current state of the terrarium;
> 
> Front:
> 
> ...


Hi, can i know what's the size of this enclosure? and will it house an adult dessert scorpion like p. trans? thank you! hope you reply, even though this was posted last 2011. . .


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## Toxoderidae (Sep 12, 2016)

Abhorsen said:


> Hi, can i know what's the size of this enclosure? and will it house an adult dessert scorpion like p. trans? thank you! hope you reply, even though this was posted last 2011. . .


*twitching*

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Venom1080 (Sep 12, 2016)

lol he might, hes here fairly often. i doubt he'd remember though.


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## Abhorsen (Sep 12, 2016)

i hope he will remember, by the way, what is the best enclosure size recommended for hot scorps?


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## Najakeeper (Sep 12, 2016)

Najakeeper said:


> I bought the enclosure in a reptile show in Hamm/Germany for a baby cobra, he outgrew it and the cage was put in storage. It is 40cmX20cmX20cm(16inX8inX8in). This glass cage design is very common in Europe from small cages like this to very big and heavy glass terrariums.
> 
> Anyway, I made the rock hide myself and the substrate was prepared according to the directions in this topic. She constantly digs and enlarges her hide, I think she is happy.




And it did house an adult perfectly well.


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## Abhorsen (Sep 13, 2016)

Najakeeper said:


> And it did house an adult perfectly well.


Thanks a lot! Good thing you still remember the dimension, im planning to buy an enclosure that fits any dessert scorpion. I really like this design! Hopefully, once i got my budget, I'll be able to buy this type of enclosure. . .


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## dragonfire1577 (Sep 14, 2016)

Being that this was revived I need to ask @Najakeeper did you end up breeding these two scorps to eachother? If so how did it turn out.


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## Najakeeper (Sep 14, 2016)

dragonfire1577 said:


> Being that this was revived I need to ask @Najakeeper did you end up breeding these two scorps to eachother? If so how did it turn out.


They did mate several times but no babies.

A friend of mine has done the same thing and ended up with black babies, which tells me black is the dominant color. The second test would be crossing the babies.


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