# Starting an Ant Colony



## OntarioNative (Dec 25, 2009)

So Im interested in maybe starting an ant colony. Not one of the ones with 6 worker ants in the little plastic kit. Im talkin a full colony with a queen and everything. I dont know much about ants, but the idea just came to me. Does anyone know how to get a colony of ants going that actually can expand in captivity? 

Cheers,
Alex


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## Ariel (Dec 25, 2009)

See, I want to do this to, but its a lot harder than I  thought it would be simply because of the fact that it's like...illigeal to ship a queen or something, so you pretty much have to find and catch one yourself, so good luck. as for your question, unfortunately, I have no idea, hopefully someone else will beable to anwser that.


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## OntarioNative (Dec 25, 2009)

Yeah its very illegal to ship ant queens. Your only allowed to ship worker class and then ONLY if you have a permit to do so. I know there are certain times of the year where you CAN find young ant queens. Late summer or early spring. Im doing some research on it right now. Gotta find out what they look like hahaha. I just think it would be cool to own a swarm of ants. I think they would do well in a large plastic tub with vaseline on the sides. Got all winter to plan I suppose:? 

Alex


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## Vulgaris (Dec 25, 2009)

Its not too hard to go out at night and search for queens. Once you find a queen, you can keep her in a simple test tube setup with water and cotton, or there are other methods that can be used.

She will start laying eggs and raise her first brood. Then you make a larger nest for them as the colony expands. Here is an image of my Camponotus pennsylvanicus colony from last year. They now have around 50 workers. the queen is visible in the photo


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## OntarioNative (Dec 25, 2009)

Oh wow! Cool cool. Thanks for the quick reply! I did some reading and I think Ill be able to find a queen in the summer. Whats the best method to keep them? If you have the time to indulge me that is 

Alex


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## Sarcastro (Dec 25, 2009)

Your best bet is to find a queen of a local species..some say its hard but it's not that hard.you'll have your best luck at night..i have 3 small colony's at the moment.and i found my queens during there mating flight ..i took a white sheet attached 2 corners to my fence and stretched it out at a diagonal and tacked it to the ground..from there i put a flood light underneath and pointed it at the sheet this will attract the males and female ants as well as all sorts of other insects. the queens will be much larger than males.

Queens are very illegal to ship or even transport anywhere. I was fined a very very large amount when it was discovered(thanks to a very bitter girlfriend) I had a small breeding colony of Solenopsis invicta (red fire ant) that I brought with me when I moved from New Mexico.


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## OntarioNative (Dec 25, 2009)

Very cool, thanks Sarcastro. I didnt expect anyone to reply to my topic, let alone so quickly! I cant wait till summer! Only 4 more months hahaha. Whats the best time of year to do the sheet method? I seem to see alot of the winged ants during late summer.

Alex


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## OntarioNative (Dec 25, 2009)

Oh and also, sarcastro and vulgaris, could you post pics of your setups?


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## Sarcastro (Dec 26, 2009)

OntarioNative said:


> Oh and also, sarcastro and vulgaris, could you post pics of your setups?


As soon as my brother returns from vacation with my camera. I will definitely take a few pics. I've had quite a few other people ask for pics as well.I have 2 different set ups...a standard vertical and a table-top setup which is what most want to see.


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## OntarioNative (Dec 26, 2009)

Sarcastro said:


> As soon as my brother returns from vacation with my camera. I will definitely take a few pics. I've had quite a few other people ask for pics as well.I have 2 different set ups...a standard vertical and a table-top setup which is what most want to see.



Very cool. Thanks a lot.

Alex


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## myrmecophile (Dec 26, 2009)

sarcastro
Cant say I am very sympathetic  towards you getting fined. Transporting such an invasive species is very irresponsible.


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## dtknow (Dec 26, 2009)

Hey myrmechophile what did you feed your Camponotus colony?

I collected 2 queens+colonies of a species common in the Sierra Nevada's...however though they laid eggs and the eggs hatched, the workers refused everything I gave them save for honey/sugar...they wanted nothing to do with mealworms, crickets etc. 

This summer I came across a founding queen with several pupae but after what happened last time I tried I decided to leave her alone. They are very abundant in the property though.


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## Vulgaris (Dec 26, 2009)

Here is a photo of a typical "test tube" that I used. Although it should be noted that I made this one the wrong way; there should be a reservoir of water in the very end, followed by a wad of cotton (that stops the water from leaking into the rest of the tube). That way the queen has a constant source of water. 







And here is a photo of my Camponotus americanus "clusteral cell". There is a moist cotton ball in the back, and the ants dragged in the wood chips on their on accord. There is a small hole in the top of the container where i can squeeze in an eye dropper to water the cotton


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## koolkid98 (Dec 26, 2009)

I have a queen and brood just woke her up from hibernation a few weeks ago all seems well.I have her in a small jar with some moist papertowel.She has a lot of eggs so i hope all goes well.


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## OntarioNative (Dec 26, 2009)

Cool cool. Cant wait to start this.


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## Sarcastro (Dec 26, 2009)

myrmecophile said:


> sarcastro
> Cant say I am very sympathetic  towards you getting fined. Transporting such an invasive species is very irresponsible.


I did it because I was studying them at the time.and it's only irresponsible if you allow you actions to be..I had the colony for 6 years without one incident the only thing irresponsible on my part was allowing my ex to know it was a bad thing that I had them,but you know what.. the knowledge I gained from having them made it worth it.A wise man once said and I'm just paraphrasing.

"A thirst for knowledge, powered by curiosity can bring about the destruction, or the salvation of mankind" : Nikola Tesla


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## OntarioNative (Dec 26, 2009)

myrmecophile said:


> sarcastro
> Cant say I am very sympathetic  towards you getting fined. Transporting such an invasive species is very irresponsible.


Contribute something useful or don't contribute at all.


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## koolkid98 (Dec 27, 2009)

Hey OntarioNative i have a quick question that can change the way you keep ants.Do you wish to see your whole colony?If so i think the claustral cell or a testtube setup is the best if not[which i doubht you wouldn't wanna see them] you can add them into a dirt setup it's up to you i like the whole see the queen and colony thing though.


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## dtknow (Dec 27, 2009)

Sarcastro: Sorry to go OT but one responsible thing could have been to get a USDA permit and containment facility if you really were studying them.

Some of the worst insect pests were released by science experiments gone bad(gypsy moths). Africanized honey bees....etc.


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## Inguan (Dec 27, 2009)

i wanna to start this kinda stuff, how can i found pictures of queen


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## OntarioNative (Dec 27, 2009)

koolkid98 said:


> Hey OntarioNative i have a quick question that can change the way you keep ants.Do you wish to see your whole colony?If so i think the claustral cell or a testtube setup is the best if not[which i doubht you wouldn't wanna see them] you can add them into a dirt setup it's up to you i like the whole see the queen and colony thing though.


Ive been thinking about this alot actually. I want to try it first with the test tubes and such. so I can actually see whats going on down there. Im a curious fellow like that. But I also want to get a large clear storage tub and fill it with dirt and some grass maybe. Kind of like a chunk of their 'natural habitat'. I think it would be really cool to see them go about their daily business in a more or less undisturbed way.

Also, I was cruising the VenomList and they have a whole section on ants and wasps. There was a nice cage design using plaster and acrylic that I would love to try. http://www.venomlist.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=23987 its a very informative article by Antcatcher11. Have a read.

Alex


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## koolkid98 (Dec 27, 2009)

Already have i'm a member on there i have kept wasps but yj's are hard to keep!Only got to three workers!


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## OntarioNative (Dec 27, 2009)

Hahaha, yea...I couldnt resist the call of VL. Im goona start with ants first, then maybe wasps...if my girlfriend hasnt killed me by then that is

Alex


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## Vulgaris (Dec 27, 2009)

Well starting a colony in a test tube and moving it to a plaster nest which is hooked up to a foraging cage beats just putting the ants in a dirt set up. Ants actually get acclimated to living in plaster and various types of setups, and their behavior while living in them is completely normal and not much different from how they would act if you had them in a dirt setup. The only differences are that they don't need to excavate any dirt or tunnels in the plaster, and you can see them

My "motto" for ant keeping is that since I cannot see much but above ground foragers in the dirt setup, I could always walk outside and see foragers any day of my life. But getting to study the interactions between the queen, workers, and brood is a fascinating thing that you don't normally get the privilege to see


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## koolkid98 (Dec 27, 2009)

That would be great if you kept wasps!Im going to do it again next season!


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## OntarioNative (Dec 27, 2009)

Vulgaris said:


> My "motto" for ant keeping is that since I cannot see much but above ground foragers in the dirt setup, I could always walk outside and see foragers any day of my life. But getting to study the interactions between the queen, workers, and brood is a fascinating thing that you don't normally get the privilege to see



Thats very true. I suppose if I wanted to have a dirt setup I might aswell just pick a colony in the back yard and feed it everyday lol. At any rate, we will see how it turns out. Ive got a long hard cold winter ahead of me

Speaking of the winter, should I simulate winter for my colony on a yearly basis and what temp should they be at? My basement is about 10C during the winter because its unfinished. Would that be good? I dont see how I would get my girlfriend to let me put ants in our fridge. She say NO!


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## OntarioNative (Dec 27, 2009)

koolkid98 said:


> That would be great if you kept wasps!Im going to do it again next season!


We gotta keep in touch cause I want to see how the wasps turn out.

Alex


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## Vulgaris (Dec 27, 2009)

Well ant hibernation is apparently a very controversial topic. Personally, I hibernate my colonies every year. I believe it is natural and helps the colony to live longer and produce more eggs. But different people will tell you different things 

10 C = 50 F? If so that is a tad on the warm side, but if it is dark all the time it will be alright to set them down there for 2 months. Strangely my parents are OK with my ants in the fridge as long as i put their whole setup in a tuperware container. Actually I never really asked about it I just put it in the back and put a "DO NOT TOUCH" sign on it

I am also going to be doing Paper wasps, Bumble bees, and hopefully a european hornet again this spring


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## OntarioNative (Dec 27, 2009)

Vulgaris said:


> Well ant hibernation is apparently a very controversial topic. Personally, I hibernate my colonies every year. I believe it is natural and helps the colony to live longer and produce more eggs. But different people will tell you different things
> 
> 10 C = 50 F? If so that is a tad on the warm side, but if it is dark all the time it will be alright to set them down there for 2 months. Strangely my parents are OK with my ants in the fridge as long as i put their whole setup in a tuperware container. Actually I never really asked about it I just put it in the back and put a "DO NOT TOUCH" sign on it
> 
> I am also going to be doing Paper wasps, Bumble bees, and hopefully a european hornet again this spring


Hmm, maybe Ill cruise a garage sale this summer and pick up a half decent fridge. I COULD PUT BEER IN IT! I have to hibernate my garter snake once a year as well, generally for about 2 months. So I figured cause they live beside each other it was probably the right thing to do.

Im looking forward to your various projects, be sure to take lots of pictures!

Alex


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## koolkid98 (Dec 29, 2009)

Vulgaris said:


> I am also going to be doing Paper wasps, Bumble bees, and hopefully a european hornet again this spring


Hey vulgaris!Sorry about the whole thing that your Vespa crabo queen didn't lay i'm thinking i might just get a nest and freerange it like I did this year it worked but then the nest got usrupted [i think i might have spelled that worng.] and so i lost the nest  it was doing so good it was at 3 workers with about 10 or cocoons that i could see.[It also was a very nice wasp i loved her so much!]I also must mention something i witnessed this year for some odd reason sometimes i would stand near the cage and the queen would go and then when it would come back it would land on me and lick me it was weird.


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## koolkid98 (Dec 29, 2009)

OntarioNative said:


> Speaking of the winter, should I simulate winter for my colony on a yearly basis and what temp should they be at? My basement is about 10C during the winter because its unfinished. Would that be good? I dont see how I would get my girlfriend to let me put ants in our fridge. She say NO!


All i did was have mine in my fridge for about three months and then take them out.Also if the queen doesn't wake up in the first day don't freak.I think it was vulgaris's queen Camp penn that did that but in like a week or so it was back and ready to go!

If you need any other help i'm sure we can help you!Also what species do you think you'll wanna keep?I have experince with three species:Myrmica Rubra,Lasius flavus[well not really but by the time spring comes i will!] and of course my faveorite:Formica fusca[these things can be mean when you mess with a nest!]My friend kicked one and i found a queen just like that.Then there is something else cool that happened:There is a species of red ant[looks real sweet but deadly!] that is a social parisite to formica fusca.Here is what happens:After their flight queens of the red ant search for a "host colony" and the queen either tries to get the colony scent onto her or just walks in and kills the host colony queen.She then takes over and lays her own eggs.The host colony workers rear all of her brood and in about 6-19 months[depending on how big the host colony is] the red ants are all that are left thus making it a pure red ant colony.I wouldn't recomend parisite queens for begginers,you'd need to have a host colony willing to ummm kill the queen which i'm sure no one wants.
Have any other questions just ask!


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## OntarioNative (Dec 29, 2009)

Thanks KoolKid. The genus of ant I would use at first would probably be Formica. Im 99% sure they are the brown ones in my back yard. Its impossible to be sure until may when the ground thaws. Do you know when the queens in that genus emerge(whats the correct term?)?

Alex


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## Vulgaris (Dec 29, 2009)

Formica usually fly around July through August. Depends on where you are located in the country. They are Diurnal and queens can be found running around on pavement after they have mated during midday


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## OntarioNative (Dec 29, 2009)

Very cool. I remember seeing them en mass last summer. Dang me if I can remember what month....:wall:
Im in south ontario, across the bay from NY, but further north


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## Sarcastro (Dec 29, 2009)

dtknow said:


> Sarcastro: Sorry to go OT but one responsible thing could have been to get a USDA permit and containment facility if you really were studying them.
> 
> Some of the worst insect pests were released by science experiments gone bad(gypsy moths). Africanized honey bees....etc.


The USDA,DFG,DAS,will not issue a licence to any one for any Myrmecological species unless you have a doctorate and work for a university, so that counts me out



Vulgaris said:


> Well ant hibernation is apparently a very controversial topic. Personally, I hibernate my colonies every year. I believe it is natural and helps the colony to live longer and produce more eggs. But different people will tell you different things
> 
> 10 C = 50 F? If so that is a tad on the warm side, but if it is dark all the time it will be alright to set them down there for 2 months. Strangely my parents are OK with my ants in the fridge as long as i put their whole setup in a Tupperware container. Actually I never really asked about it I just put it in the back and put a "DO NOT TOUCH" sign on it
> 
> I am also going to be doing Paper wasps, Bumble bees, and hopefully a European hornet again this spring


 I have found that a cold season for northern species is a good thing it will in fact keep your specimens around alot longer, but they don't actuality hibernate they just slow down it's kinda like a brumation their awake and moving but with less drive.


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## Vulgaris (Dec 29, 2009)

When you say "they don't actuality hibernate they just slow down" ---Depends on what "type" of hibernation I guess. Some people put theirs in the basement like OntarioNative said. And this sort of hibernation is exactly as you said; they slow down but are still moving and not asleep. In the fridge or in the wild, they do truly hibernate and can survive well below freezing temps. Perhaps a better term for the basement hibernating would be "over wintering"


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## OntarioNative (Dec 29, 2009)

But the best method would be refrigeration at around 5C or so?

Alex


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## Sarcastro (Dec 29, 2009)

well I actually put mine in the garage during the winter cause i don't have a fridge big enough for my enclosures 2 are wall mounts and the other is a tabletop model.


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## Vulgaris (Dec 29, 2009)

Yes I agree. Fridge for young colonies and garage or basement for mature colonies who are too large to put in a fridge.


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## koolkid98 (Dec 29, 2009)

Sounds like lasius to me,possibly lasius neoniger.Which is the species i keep.


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## Sarcastro (Dec 30, 2009)

my favorite sp. I keep are Trachymyrmex septentrionalis I have these in my table top unit and then my 2 wall units are classic M. americana and Tetramorium caepitum.


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## OntarioNative (Dec 30, 2009)

I think your right KoolKid. Its funny how things are all around me, I see them for 6 months of the year, everyday and I cant remember what they look like! Aside from being brown of course lol.

Could you post a pic of your table top unit? Im having trouble envisioning it.:}


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## koolkid98 (Dec 30, 2009)

So am i!I think we need an ant setup picture thread i'll go make one!


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## OntarioNative (Dec 30, 2009)

Please do!


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## auroborus (Jan 6, 2010)

Hey I have a small colony myself, I actually found the queen in a small piece of wood, about the size of my fist. im hoping they outgrow the wood and go into the dirt i have for them. I got a ten gallon fish tank and used cat litter boxes to make it so theres only a .5-.25 inch gap on the side and filled the gap with dirt, as well a half inch on top of the cat litter boxes for foraging. I still need to ID the species but when fall/winter comes around they tend to just hide in the chunk of wood and hibernate on there own accord, i dont lower the temp or anything. They just know when its winter time probably cause of the sun or something.


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## daytona1911 (Jan 6, 2010)

Ive actually started a few native ant colonies here in florida for the purposes for study and they are great for the office when we have our pest control meetings.  I had a ghost ant , crazy ant and a pharoah  ant colony going for a bit .  I never did any fire any colonies since the createns are the bane of my existance and being a florida native who does landscaping I get stung on a monthly basis. BUt im sure they would be a very interesting variety to do one on. I do know it is a heafty fine if you transport across state lines though. I have to have all my bonsai trees certified fireant free by the state before I can ship across state lines.   Take pics of your enclosures if you can .  I may totally copy your design when I do them again .  pyramid ants or harvester ants would be neat to do as well. I had a carpenter ant colony as well.  they chewed through the plastic and got out all over office  , hences why I dont currently have any colonies active at this time .  business partner was peeved!.  lol


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## Vulgaris (Jan 11, 2010)

I woke up my Camponotus pennsylvanicus colony a few days ago. It was interesting watching them slowely resume life again. Here is a shot showing the queen and the majority of the workers. Will get photos of the setup tomorrow


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## OntarioNative (Jan 11, 2010)

Your the man (or woman?) Vulgaris! Keep the pic coming, they are fascinating


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## Vulgaris (Jan 11, 2010)

Haha, man would be correct. Here is one more shot showing a major worker. You can also see little groups of small larvae that overwintered with the colony and will resume growth soon

I will also get photos of the C. americanus tomorrow too


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## Vulgaris (Jan 20, 2010)

Ooops sorry guys. I got kind of busy over the last few days

Here are more photos. My carpenter colonies are doing great. the larvae have resumed growth again and the queen should start egg laying soon

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff117/vulgaris_01/IMG_9097.jpg

and here is the the C. americanus (a younger colony)

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff117/vulgaris_01/IMG_9098.jpg


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## xhexdx (Jan 20, 2010)

There's actually an article on collecting ant queens:

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=97748

I'd like to get something started, too, but NOT fire ants.  Which brings me to this:



daytona1911 said:


> Ive actually started a few native ant colonies here in florida for the purposes for study and they are great for the office when we have our pest control meetings.  I had a ghost ant , crazy ant and a pharoah  ant colony going for a bit .


Where did you get these ants?  I mean, I haven't been out searching, but the only ants I see around here are fire ants and the occasional velvet ant.

Any advice would be appreciated.

--Joe


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## daytona1911 (Jan 21, 2010)

"Where did you get these ants? I mean, I haven't been out searching, but the only ants I see around here are fire ants and the occasional velvet ant."
  Hey Joe ,   I own part of a pest control company here in central florida and because of this I am privy to any infestations in peoples homes. I am kind of a nerd when it comes to collecting the queens , exp during the swarming seasons here in central florida. Any colony that happens to have queens available for collecting I used to tend to collect just for behavoural purposes.  I had them in our office when I talked partner into letting them stay for helping the techs Identify certain species real time .  after the incident of the carpenter ants chewing out , I had to let them go, but it was a fun 2 years .   I used to feed them crushed crickets for the protein feeders and sugar water for the carb feeders , with the ocasional nuts , peanut butter , aphids if they were from a nonpesticide location, which is rare here in florida. Id also feed cat food , but would have to take old food out if it got moldy since it would get all over plexiglass and limit veiwing with some ,  the ghost ants would eat the mold.  Interesting stuff. Let me know what you are interested in , I might be able to get you something since you are in FL and if it a native species I can ship to you . Spring is around the corner and swarmers will be abundant!  the crazy anys are the funnest. fast , energetic , and fast growers, exp when multiple queens are laying


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## xhexdx (Jan 21, 2010)

Have you got species names for them?  That 'crazy ant' sounds like it would be fun to work with.  I'd definitely be interested in a couple queens. 

--Joe


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## daytona1911 (Jan 26, 2010)

Carpenter ant ( florida carpenter ant ) "Camponotus floridanus" is the biggest by far and the easiest to see and find .  the queens all do the mating swarm this spring .  easy to find .  the other three , not so much unless you know where to look and what time of year , usually after the dry winter season and a good long , warm rain will bring out elates of all types.  Crazy ant    "formica longicornis", Ghost ant  "tapinoma melanocephalum", and Pharoah ant "Monomorium pharaonis " are all much smaller and harder to see without straining ,  but can be seen if studied up close or with magnification .   I liked them because you can use the cheezy ant colony  uncle milty's stuff .  let me know if you want to trade slings for ants!!!   lol.   If you want ,  when I come across some I can send you a starter colony w queens when they swarm.


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## myrmecophile (Jan 27, 2010)

Alates and _Paratrechina_, not_ Formica longicornis_.


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## daytona1911 (Jan 29, 2010)

thanks ,  it was late , I was tired .


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## koolkid98 (Jan 29, 2010)

Got a new queen of lasius neoniger i'm going to keep her too.


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## tigeri69 (Apr 26, 2010)

im in desperate need of a queen for my massive ant farm my grandfather made me at a plexi-glass factory--its 3ft long by 2ft high--very cool but i want a colony with a queen---can any1 possibly send me 1 or sell me 1 or direct me in the direction of someone who ca??--thank u 4 any time and help u can provide


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## koolkid98 (Apr 26, 2010)

I have a new colony of m.rubra about 1 queen and 3 workers and a ton of brood.


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## syndicate (Apr 26, 2010)

tigeri69 said:


> im in desperate need of a queen for my massive ant farm my grandfather made me at a plexi-glass factory--its 3ft long by 2ft high--very cool but i want a colony with a queen---can any1 possibly send me 1 or sell me 1 or direct me in the direction of someone who ca??--thank u 4 any time and help u can provide


Sending queens thru the male is very illegal!
Just find a local forest in your area and search under rocks and look for colonies.


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## xhexdx (Apr 26, 2010)

I'm looking forward to eventually starting a colony, too.

One of these days...


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## JC (Apr 26, 2010)

xhexdx said:


> I'm looking forward to eventually starting a colony, too.
> 
> One of these days...


Me too. I always wanted a colony(about 7 years now) but didn't know were to look or what I was looking for. I will try to get one started this summer.


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## H. laoticus (Apr 27, 2010)

I found this neat site:
http://www.anthillwood.co.uk/antsaspets.htm

you guys should check it out.


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