# Python escapes and strangles two boys to death



## Gilberator (Aug 6, 2013)

Read this article this morning. Very sad but in the end, snake was being a snake. Owner should have taken better precautions. My question is, would a snake really kill two children and NOT eat them? Just slither away? Seems fishy to me but I am no snake owner so I ask you fine people on here! Is this type of behavior evident in snakes?

http://www.wfsb.com/story/23053233/two-boys-strangled-to-death-by-python


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## pouchedrat (Aug 6, 2013)

That just doesn't even seem real.... why would it do that and then not even try to eat it?  I call shenanigans.  IT COULD be real but it's just... it doesn't seem likely.  


Reminds me of a former coworker who told me she killed EVERY single snake she came across, because of a story she was told as a child about a kid ripped to shreds by snakes while swimming.   Snakes can't rip you to shreds.. and don't attack in a pack.

Reactions: Like 1


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## lancej (Aug 6, 2013)

There are several things fishy about this.  Snakes don't kill just to kill.  They kill out of defense or for food.  Constrictors don't usually constrict out of defense - they bite and spread feces at their perceived threat.  If it was killing out of hunger, it would have tried for hours to swallow its 'prey'.  Also, when a constrictor grabs its prey, there is a lot of struggling and commotion going on in the process, and unless the snake grabbed the kid by his face and mouth, there would have been at least one scream.  How did this not wake anyone else in the apartment?  Were the kids locked in the room?  Why didn't the other kid get out of the room when his brother was wrapped up? What a tragedy!  I hope that the truth comes out of this.

Reactions: Like 1


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## BCscorp (Aug 6, 2013)

Unfortunately it is real and the two boys are dead.


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## Najakeeper (Aug 6, 2013)

What sounded fishy to me was snake killing 1st kid while the second one is sleeping next to him. How come the second kid did not wake up and raise the alarm? I also think that we don't have the full story. I guess they will do an autopsy and it will show what happened...

Reactions: Like 1


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## pitbulllady (Aug 6, 2013)

This is beyond "fishy" to anyone with a shred of knowledge about constrictor snakes!  I've owned large constrictors for almost 50 years, so I do believe I'm a knowledgeable individual when it comes to these animals, and nothing in this even remotely suggests a snake as the culprit, just a convenient scapegoat.  I've said before that if I wanted to murder someone, I'd strangle them to death and put one of my snakes at the scene and no one in law enforcement would question that the snake was the killer, NO ONE.  

First of all, large constrictors do NOT STRANGLE/CHOKE their victims!  They target the rib cage/torso, tightening their grip to prevent the lungs from expanding and preventing the heart from contracting to pump blood.  Injuries to the throat or neck that involve strangulation are NOT the signature of a snake constricting for food!  Once a constrictor finds a victim and latches on with its teeth and throws its coils around it, it will NOT LET GO and it will not simply kill something and  I move on to another target, period!  Even when fed pre-killed prey items, it's not unusual for a constrictor snake to coil around it's food for two or more hours, especially if the prey is large, and it will make attempts over several hours to devour it, changing position, moving the prey around, etc.  There is no way that another kid could have slept next to that going on and not been awakened, absolutely no way unless he was drugged, anyway.  African Rocks(and I have one, btw) especially tend to take hours to devour prey and can consume really large prey items.  There would be clear evidence that the snake had at least tried to swallow one of the children, and since the reports listed the snake's length at 4 meters, which is close to 16 feet, it would be rather surprising that a snake of this size wouldn't be able to swallow a small child.  African Rocks of that size often eat gazelles and sheep in the wild.  It's not going to kill one, then move on and kill the other, and given that the first step in attacking prey it a painful bite, the first child would have still had time to cry out, alerting the second one.  Hopefully, Canadian authorities will be more educated than their counterparts down in FL who investigated that case involving the alleged death of a toddler from a python "attack".
I also find it highly suspect, even though this is in Canada, that this "just happened" to have taken place as our own USFWS is trying to effectively ban trade in ALL constrictor snakes, having already banned trade/interstate commerce in this species.

pitbulllady

Reactions: Like 9


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## Gilberator (Aug 6, 2013)

Very fishy. I hope they delve further into this. I am no lover of snakes but to have a snake effectively take the blame for this, is a terrible thing to think about. It was probably the shop keeper.


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## hearsemadam (Aug 6, 2013)

""The snake was probably way underfed and badly housed for a snake to be able to get out at that size. It just has to be really hungry and not in good conditions," he said."

From experience, I can say this is not necessarily true.  My dads 12 foot Retic did not want to be contained.  She always went to the same place - and moved a refrigerator to get there (and thats how we knew where she was when she was on the loose - behind the refrigerator)


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## Tleilaxu (Aug 6, 2013)

The story is on CNNs main web page. The lack of investigation is sickening. No way a snake can kill two people silently. Its not possible. Not to mention a 100 pound object would make quite a racket when it falls through a ceiling.


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## Stirmi (Aug 6, 2013)

This is obviously a scandal of some sort or a horribly done reporting job. Apparently I heard the roof caved in to but since there was a snake there they blamed the snake


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## Elytra and Antenna (Aug 6, 2013)

Last time I remember a story somewhat like this the father eventually admitted to killing the child and blaming the snake. Of course the true half of the story didn't grab too many headlines.


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## lancej (Aug 6, 2013)

Elytra and Antenna said:


> Last time I remember a story somewhat like this the father eventually admitted to killing the child and blaming the snake. Of course the true half of the story didn't grab too many headlines.


With the Florida incident, Senator Bill Nelson used that headline to push the current constrictor legislation through.  Of course, he didn't recant his position once the truth QUIETLY came out.  Typical liberal crap.  That's all I am going to say.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Smokehound714 (Aug 7, 2013)

So many pokemon jokes going through my brain..

Reactions: Like 1


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## The Snark (Aug 7, 2013)

For the people who find this story plausible, I've got some swamp land a couple of miles west of San Francisco for sale very cheap.

lancej, let's tone it down and leave politics out of it.

As an afterthought, here is a MUCH more probable headline: Two Boys Escape! Strangle Snake To Death!

Reactions: Like 2


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## Najakeeper (Aug 7, 2013)

I have emailled the police force of this town and tried to explain why the story sounds unreal. I hope they investigate this properly.

Reactions: Like 3


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## The Snark (Aug 7, 2013)

Trivial forensic pathology should easily discover the MOI as not being the body of a snake. The contusions should be signature of the instrument used. IE, a snake cannot exert unequal pressure upon the cells.


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## catfishrod69 (Aug 7, 2013)

These were my thoughts exactly. Kill the kids, set the snake loose, and nobody will ever blame a human. 





Elytra and Antenna said:


> Last time I remember a story somewhat like this the father eventually admitted to killing the child and blaming the snake. Of course the true half of the story didn't grab too many headlines.

Reactions: Like 1


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## ShredderEmp (Aug 7, 2013)

Saw this: http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blog...yxiated-autopsy-concludes-202212704.html?vp=1


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## lancej (Aug 7, 2013)

The owner is already changing his story.  First, the snake escaped from the shop downstairs, then it was a house pet living in the apartment.  Somebody pass the Febreze, it's starting to stink to high heaven!!

Reactions: Like 2


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## Smokehound714 (Aug 8, 2013)

Poor kids..


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## hamhock 74 (Aug 8, 2013)

Just read this on the bus, preliminary autopsy results show the two boys were asphyxiated. Media jumps onboard and runs off with it. 

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...in-campbellton-new-brunswick/article13636297/


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## Stirmi (Aug 8, 2013)

I don't believe in conspiracies but isn't it a little too coincidental how a snake killed two boys without attempting to eat them or anything and the snake wasn't aggressive according to reports at the same time the catx and adding the remaining five large constrictors are trying to be passed?


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## BCscorp (Aug 12, 2013)

Apparently the investigation continues, the boys have been laid to rest. Articles where reporters talk to snake experts basically all agree that this is not typical behaviour for these animals. Maybe they are saying strangulation as a nicer way of saying 'crushed to death'? Still seems very odd.

Reactions: Like 2


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## pitbulllady (Aug 13, 2013)

http://www.fox.com.au/fox-news-feed/2013/8/snake-deaths-now-a-murder-investigation/

THIS update was actually posted on August 8 in AUSTRALIA, but of course OUR media here in the US isn't going to report this at all, but due to the testimony of snake experts with actual experience with these animals, combined with evidence gathered so far, this case has now officially become a murder investigation, and it's about time!  The authorities are actually listening to people who know something about large snakes, and hopefully it won't be long before the truth is known and the PEOPLE responsible for this horrible act are punished.

pitbulllady

Reactions: Like 11


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## The Snark (Aug 14, 2013)

It's a very sad reflection of modern day TV (moron) mentality that murder wasn't suspected until a PM positively caste the snake as the suspected culprit. Do they have any idea how incredibly stupid they look when an article like that gets published? _The average mentality is so hypnotized by Hollywood trauma-drama they will suck up utter fantasy before even considering common sense and facts!_

I note that the original new report was updated 1 week later to note a murder investigation is now opened.

Let's put this whole silly thing in perspective. I took this shot surrounded by around 45 pythons up to 15 feet long. Why was I perfectly safe? Just maybe it's because pythons don't attack people? Now if I was covered in feathers and shaped like a chicken and standing there...

Reactions: Like 3


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## Tleilaxu (Aug 27, 2013)

So any updates on the story. The media has gone silent on it after leaving the snakes killed the two boys......

Reactions: Like 1


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## Malhavoc's (Aug 27, 2013)

Tleilaxu said:


> So any updates on the story. The media has gone silent on it after leaving the snakes killed the two boys......


Unfortunately even in Canada, its gone quite, you see, snake murders that's news, people on people murder? that's an every day occurrence.. I'm tempted to call the local police office and ask for a statement.


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## Deathmetal (Aug 27, 2013)

Please do and post here!


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## SamuraiSid (Aug 28, 2013)

*“Early autopsy results concluded that the boys were asphyxiated by an African rock python”*

Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/owner-...ood-on-hands-clothing-1.1423259#ixzz2dEPqwb00

I know we all get a little overzealous when the media shifts their attention our way, or towards anything we hold dear. But I have heard enough to see its possible the snake could have done this, no matter how much I would rather think a creature as beautiful as that could kill two innocent children. But that’s what it boils down to.

I'm by no means an expert, and have been led astray by false info in the past, so please keep that in mind. Its just an opinion folks.

Firstly, a large constrictor will constrict as a defense technique if it must. Rare as it may be, it is in the snakes list of possible actions, and it ranks higher than, “roll over and die” during a high stress situation.
As stated, people are not a choice of prey for snakes. This could explain why the snake didn’t eat them.
The snake fell directly onto the children/ the hole in the ceiling was directly above where the children slept, according to the owner. Is it possible the fall stressed the snake, and landing on a squirming mass would be cause for concern for the snake? Is it possible having 100lbs dropped onto you from 8 feet would startle you, make you freak out, and/or knock the wind out of you if you happen to be a young child?

To the individual who started this wildfire by saying they recall another news story where the snake owner eventually came forward and said they used the snake as a scapegoat, could you provide a link? Google failed me

---------- Post added 08-27-2013 at 09:50 PM ----------




pitbulllady said:


> this case has now officially become a murder investigation, and it's about time!


Criminal investigation... Fox news fails again... Or maybe this is a case of cultural semantics I dont mean to argue with you, 'PBLady.


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## The Snark (Aug 28, 2013)

To sum up, the snake fell several feet, landed, encircled the necksor thorax of two children without the normal strike, overcame their struggling and attempts to free themselves until clinical deaths set in with both victims, 3 to 5 minutes, then continued to constrict for another 2 to 3 minutes until biological death occurred. 

Contrapuntally, the 'old man, grandpa, up at the snake farm, a 20 foot+ 250+ lb Burmese. Nobody ever enters his enclosure unless the entire staff, 6 people, is present somewhere at the farm and able to hear calls for help. If grandpa was feeling his oats and warmed up and frisky, it is doubtful that a large powerfully built man could survive and escape an attack. 

Both makes and models of snake are around the same size.


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## Kazaam (Aug 28, 2013)

This whole story sounds like a big steaming heap of nonsense to me.

Did they kill the snake that 'did it' for being a snake yet?


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## MatthewM1 (Aug 28, 2013)

I'm pretty sure I read it was euthanized a day or 2 after

Sent from my LG-P930 using Tapatalk 2


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## pitbulllady (Aug 28, 2013)

Kazaam said:


> This whole story sounds like a big steaming heap of nonsense to me.
> 
> Did they kill the snake that 'did it' for being a snake yet?


Yes, of course they did.  At least the authorities down in FL spared the Burm that "killed" Shania Hare, even treating its knife injuries inflicted by its 400-pound owner.   But in most cases like this, they kill the animal, especially if it was a snake.

pitbulllady


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## BCscorp (Aug 28, 2013)

The fear mongering against snakes since the incident has been bad. Not constant, but in the negative generally. I guess you would have to call whoever did the autopsy to get more than "died from asphyxiation by snake".


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## SamuraiSid (Aug 28, 2013)

BCscorp said:


> The fear mongering against snakes since the incident has been bad. Not constant, but in the negative generally. I guess you would have to call whoever did the autopsy to get more than "died from asphyxiation by snake".


Exactly. Anyone that understand snake behaviour knows it didnt need to be killed. But is it possible the snake needed to die to appease the general public? If that snake was alive today, public outcry would be far woarse, and in the end, whatever new legislation they might put in place "against" us, will be lessened by the fact the snake was killed.

Also, the media doesnt pander to enthusiasts. They provide info for the general public, and in that, they might leave out details people like us could question. Im wondering, is anyone else here willing to admit its plausible? Or are we, as a group, happy calling the snake owner a murderer?

Im of the opinion that during these harsh times, we need to educate, not cry over the incident and make ridiculous accusations. Thats the same kind of sensationalism the media uses.


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## lancej (Aug 28, 2013)

SamuraiSid said:


> Exactly. Anyone that understand snake behaviour knows it didnt need to be killed. But is it possible the snake needed to die to appease the general public? If that snake was alive today, public outcry would be far woarse, and in the end, whatever new legislation they might put in place "against" us, will be lessened by the fact the snake was killed.
> 
> Also, the media doesnt pander to enthusiasts. They provide info for the general public, and in that, they might leave out details people like us could question. Im wondering, is anyone else here willing to admit its plausible? Or are we, as a group, happy calling the snake owner a murderer?
> 
> Im of the opinion that during these harsh times, we need to educate, not cry over the incident and make ridiculous accusations. Thats the same kind of sensationalism the media uses.


Being a parent myself, as well as asking all the other parents I know, I cannot understand how the owner of the snake could sleep through anything crashing through the ceiling of a room where children are sleeping.  The story has changed on where the snake was being housed - first it was reported that the snake was being kept in the store below the apartment, then it was cited as living in the apartment.  Another thing that bothers me is that the son of the snake owner was having his best friends sleep over, yet they weren't all in the same room?  As if the noise from the ceiling crashing down wasn't enough to wake the owner, but also the screams that surely ensued by at least one of the victims?  I guess anything's possible as long as the stars, the moon, and the planets align in a perfect way.  The fault still lies with the owner for failing to take proper precautions and allowing this to happen.  It's called negligence, possible child abuse, and even manslaughter or murder if the owner knew the snake could or had escaped and did nothing to prevent/rectify the situation.
Also, anyone who knows the behavior of large constrictors could tell you that this was completely atypical of either an attack or defensive behavior.  I guess it's possible that this was a one-of-kind snake that goes against all known behavior and instinct.  I guess it's possible that unicorns really do exist also.


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## Louise E. Rothstein (Aug 28, 2013)

The stories have changed at least twice.
But they are all improbable.

Few snakes,if any,could crash through ceilings.
And,if they did,who could sleep through that...?

If the children were already dead, though...
They WOULD sleep through that. 

Guilty...or totally terrified people...
Well...
Might fake sound sleep.


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## lancej (Aug 28, 2013)

Louise E. Rothstein said:


> The stories have changed at least twice.
> But they are all improbable.
> 
> Few snakes,if any,could crash through ceilings.
> ...


exactly!!  This is my thinking also.


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## SamuraiSid (Aug 29, 2013)

Thanks for not flaming me. Honestly I was kind of dreading it...

Ive heard of people sleeping through gunfire, so 100lbs of awesome crashing through the ceiling is believable to me.

Ive read a bunch of different stories from different news stations and think that might be why some of the facts are mixed up, however maybe the guy has been changing his story. I dont know.

Currently, RCMP are treating this as a criminal investigation, and its likely the man will be charged with "Death Caused by Criminal Negligence" or "Manslaughter". Either way he is facing a life sentence. Only difference is the amount of evidence.


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## Malhavoc's (Aug 29, 2013)

The Snark said:


> To sum up, the snake fell several feet, landed, encircled the necksor thorax of two children without the normal strike, overcame their struggling and attempts to free themselves until clinical deaths set in with both victims, 3 to 5 minutes, then continued to constrict for another 2 to 3 minutes until biological death occurred.
> 
> Contrapuntally, the 'old man, grandpa, up at the snake farm, a 20 foot+ 250+ lb Burmese. Nobody ever enters his enclosure unless the entire staff, 6 people, is present somewhere at the farm and able to hear calls for help. If grandpa was feeling his oats and warmed up and frisky, it is doubtful that a large powerfully built man could survive and escape an attack.
> 
> Both makes and models of snake are around the same size.


My only issue is, the story changed, the pet store/ snake cage was in the lower floor, with the children on the upper floor, not many ventilation systems would have a duct running through the ceiling, especially newer homes/buildings. never mind duct running from the lower floor through the wall over the ceiling to a vent.

to further on my post with photos of the building and another source in the news...
http://www.citynews.ca/2013/08/05/s...an-zoo-kills-2-children-in-new-brunswick-cbc/


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