# What Tarantulas have you kept communal with success



## KenTheBugGuy (Jun 18, 2010)

*What Tarantulas have you kept communal*

Posting time periods would be neat and amount together.  Sizes would be interesting also.

Mine were all slings when put together but many quite a bit larger by the end.
H Incei - lots - over a year
P Meranda -3 - 8 months+
P Regalis- lots - Over year
P Tigriniwessli - however you spell those  - 3 - 8 Months+
H Gigas - lots - 6 Months+
P Striata - 3 - 8 Months+
P Pedersini -3  - 8 Months+
Avic avic - Lots - some disappeared though....hmmmm - 6 months plus
Chinese Mantis - whole ooth- TONS disappeared ....thank goodness  
......will think some more tommorrow....


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## rustym3talh3ad (Jun 18, 2010)

a very good friend of mine has 3 or 4 H. gigas together right now that hes had together since they were just under an inch in size, and they are now over two inches and doing fine. he started with 10 together and separated a number of them out because he was afraid of loosing them during feeding. when he opened the lid they would all go darting around, some up some down...it got kinda messy so he dropped the number down to a manageable amount. 

at the store i work at we commonly keep Avic species together, 3 up to 6 adult/subadults at a time, we have had some get munched but usually not enough where we refuse to do it anymore.


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## codykrr (Jun 18, 2010)

myself.

H. incei
H. villosella 
OBT(though some say it doesnt work, mine did)

tried a p. regalis communal and only 1 lived...


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## Rick & Brandy (Jun 18, 2010)

Avicularia avicularia: 2 females, 1 male adults.  The one female made her sac and we never had a problem.


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## xhexdx (Jun 18, 2010)

Wouldn't we need to define 'success' first?


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## KenTheBugGuy (Jun 18, 2010)

*success*



xhexdx said:


> Wouldn't we need to define 'success' first?


Since I made this thread I would say success is that the majority seem to get along fine.  The ooth was a joke on mine but the others got along mostly.


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## xhexdx (Jun 18, 2010)

KenTheBugGuy said:


> Since I made this thread I would say success is that the majority seem to get along fine.  The ooth was a joke on mine but the others got along mostly.


We still need more than that...

'The majority' = 51% of the group?

For what period of time?


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## KenTheBugGuy (Jun 18, 2010)

xhexdx said:


> We still need more than that...
> 
> 'The majority' = 51% of the group?
> 
> For what period of time?


Just majority will do more than half did well.  Also I am not a hard case here I just wanted to hear what people have tried and had live together.  If they post time periods that would even be better for people to read but I don't think a time period really constitutes success or not   When we start getting all technical its just no fun.   We now have 4 threads in this thread that people have to read before gettign to what others have kept together.....its like saying that black tarantula is a dark grey not black so get it off this black tarantula list....in essence who cares.


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## xhexdx (Jun 18, 2010)

I respectfully submit that those parameters do not indicate a successful communal.


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## KenTheBugGuy (Jun 18, 2010)

xhexdx said:


> I respectfully submit that those parameters do not indicate a successful communal.


I respectfully submit GET OVER IT!

Title says with success not successfully.


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## BrynWilliams (Jun 18, 2010)

would something like 80-90% survival rates be a better idea of successful? I only don't put 100% a minority may be lost to bad moults etc?


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## KenTheBugGuy (Jun 18, 2010)

*just post*



BrynWilliams said:


> would something like 80-90% survival rates be a better idea of successful? I only don't put 100% a minority may be lost to bad moults etc?


Just post that you lost a % amount  and others can decide if it was successful on thier own.


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## xhexdx (Jun 18, 2010)

KenTheBugGuy said:


> I respectfully submit GET OVER IT!
> 
> Title says with success not successfully.


Chill out, Ken.

So 'with success' and 'successfully' mean two different things?  Where'd you learn that?

You're also telling me that starting with 20 and ending with 2 would be considered a success, since you had more than 1 spider at the end.

Sorry if I upset you by trying to bring some kind of logic and thought process to this discussion.

Also, nice edit to your original post to add time periods.


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## KenTheBugGuy (Jun 18, 2010)

xhexdx said:


> Chill out, Ken.
> 
> So 'with success' and 'successfully' mean two different things?  Where'd you learn that?
> 
> ...


As I said it would be nice for people just to post that stuff and others can decide...I wish I had kept success out of the title as I can't change that I was just looking for peoples experience with communal groups. Not to start semantic arguments. Its just ridiculous almost every thread on AB seems to get into one of these arguments.


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## xhexdx (Jun 18, 2010)

There was no argument; I was trying to clarify what you considered success and offer my thoughts based on that.


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## KenTheBugGuy (Jun 18, 2010)

*k*



xhexdx said:


> There was no argument; I was trying to clarify what you considered success and offer my thoughts based on that.


I see, my confusion Joe but as I said I just want to hear experiences and what I define as success or you, might be different so don't really care.   I just want to hear of some communal set ups what people have tried.


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## xhexdx (Jun 18, 2010)

KenTheBugGuy said:


> I see, my confusion Joe but as I said I just want to hear experiences and what I define as success or you, might be different so don't really care.   I just want to hear of some communal set ups what people have tried.


No problem, there was confusion on both ends. 

I'll post my limited communal experiences in a little while.


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## Protectyaaaneck (Jun 18, 2010)

Kept a communal of 3 p. fasciata together from 3/4' to roughly 4" before I had to seperate them to sell them.


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## pwilson5 (Jun 18, 2010)

ken, i think this is a great thread idea... i think anything over 50% would be considered a 
"success"... with varying degrees of success-ability 

obviously 80% is better than 50%...


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## Crows Arachnids (Jun 18, 2010)

*Communal Experience*

I have kept most of Poecilotheria communaly. The list and time frames (approximate) are listed accordingly.

Poecilotheria Regalis- (1 Male 2 Females) 9 Months plus- No issue (as defined by one or the other dying).

Poecilotheria Regalis- SLINGS (125) Over the course of a year 15 or so dissapeared.

Poecilotheria Rufilata- SLINGS (5) 6 Months 1 Eaten (female ate female -.-)

Poecilotheria Rufilata- PAIR female ate male after 7 Months.

Poecilotheria Ornata- PAIR female ate male after 3 days. 

Poecilotheria Ornata- SLINGS (5) together for 1 week 2 ate 2 (Least communal of Poecilotheria so far)

Poecilotheria Metallica- PAIRS (4 pairs) Ranged from 4-8 months No issues.

Poecilotheria Metallica- SLINGS (5) 8 months No issues.

Poecilotheria Striata- PAIR female ate male after 3 months

Poecilotheria Striata- SLINGS (10) 2 dissapeared within the 9 months they were together.

Poecilotheria Pederseni- PAIR male lived with female for 6 months no issues, assistant forgot to feed her, male dissapeared, I attribute that to lack of food. She is currently with another male, now for 2 weeks, no issues thus far.

Poecilotheria Fasciata- SLINGS (3) 8 months no issues.

Poecilotheria Smithi- SLINGS (4) 8 months, one died (NOT EATEN, was a very sickly spider)

Poecilotheria Formosa- PAIR currently together after 7 months, no issues.

Poecilotheria Miranda- Slings (10) 1 was eaten after 6 months.

I am posting again in reference to something else, this post is getting too long  I have yet to list the Avics, Obts, and others......


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## Rick & Brandy (Jun 18, 2010)

BACK TO THE THEAD.... 
The 3 Avics I posted about were together for at least a year.
I seperated them when the one had a sac.


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## Crows Arachnids (Jun 18, 2010)

I have had many pairs circulate through, in regards to my last post. I just did not document them enough to relate every Poecilotheria pair that has gotten busy in my little corner. I wish to lightly touch upon success. Dismissing definition for the time being, I think factors are more pertinent right now. Temperature (as effecting metabolism), humidity, numbers, food availability, the occasional tarantula that just loves to snack on his/her brethren, and sex ratio (in my experience females, from slings to adults tend to be the culprits, although males are guilty, it seems to be like a 85/15% split). As far as definition, that will vary from person to person, so digress, all you who beckon for solidity on the matter. Any amount of tarantulas other than one, living within the same confinement that do not avidly seek each others demise is truly what defines communal. Note avidly, this does not mean cannibilism will not occur, once again refer to the factors. I look at success in the numbers factor, NOT percentage. If you started with 125 and had 40 after 2 years, I take that as a sign that there was not enough space, so the numbers dwindled to where they could leave comfortably together, meaning what in my book? Success. If you had 8 and plenty of space and over the course of 2 months 6 were missing and you had two with a hearty behind, not so much success  My point is that we cannont ascertain the definition of success due to the multitude of factors presented before us, I can merely fathom how long the definition would be, incoorporating those factors (it means this, unless this, or that, also this etc...). In the end I suggest making this just a tad bit more detailed, perhaps tank size can be instituted here? Just trying to help this become more experimental, great idea Ken!


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## smallara98 (Jun 18, 2010)

xhexdx said:


> There was no argument; I was trying to clarify what you considered success and offer my thoughts based on that.


Dude... Hes asking what ts WORKED. Thats all... Hes not asking other questions.


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## jebbewocky (Jun 18, 2010)

smallara98 said:


> Dude... Hes asking what ts WORKED. Thats all... Hes not asking other questions.


And Joe was asking, essentially, "what does 'worked' mean within the context of this discussion?"
*shrug*

And, for me?  None.  I don't plan on attempting either.  Most of the "true communals" are pretty pricey, like H.incei.  Pretty much my take on it.


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## smallara98 (Jun 18, 2010)

jebbewocky said:


> And Joe was asking, essentially, "what does 'worked' mean within the context of this discussion?"
> *shrug*
> 
> And, for me?  None.  I don't plan on attempting either.  Most of the "true communals" are pretty pricey, like H.incei.  Pretty much my take on it.


Well thats why you breed them. You cant just buy slings from different sacs and stick them in a cage. When they are hatched, keep them together as long as possible.


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## shanebp (Jun 18, 2010)

I have 3 H.incei's living together that have been together since hatching. But i've had them approx about a month with no problems. Unfortunately thats all my communal experience I have. Hope this helps!


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## J.huff23 (Jun 18, 2010)

I think a communual would be really interesting, but Im not going to try it. Mostly because I would hate losing Ts from it if it went sour. Its awesome to see pictures of it though. A while back I saw a picture on a different forum that had a whole colony of H.incei in a huge tank and they were producing new generations and living together with no major issues. Very cool picture. I will see if I can find it later.


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## smallara98 (Jun 18, 2010)

I heard somewhere that right when the eggs hatch, you can put different species together? Example: P. regalis x P. rufilata?


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## Protectyaaaneck (Jun 18, 2010)

smallara98 said:


> I heard somewhere that right when the eggs hatch, you can put different species together? Example: P. regalis x P. rufilata?


What?     :?  

Do you have a source or link?


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## just1moreT (Jun 18, 2010)

i just wish i could afford more than one of each spider i got lol . but i do think this will be a informitive thread,  will let people know what there up against i reckon  and  i have alwasy wanted to have a   T  cummunal one day . 

eric


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## Dirzain (Jun 18, 2010)

Protectyaaaneck said:


> What?     :?
> 
> Do you have a source or link?


My thoughts exactly.


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## Anastasia (Jun 18, 2010)

Crows Arachnids said:


> I have kept most of Poecilotheria communaly. The list and time frames (approximate) are listed accordingly.
> 
> Poecilotheria Metallica- SLINGS (5) 8 months No issues.
> 
> ...


hello,
have any pictures on communal metallicas or smithi?
and when did this communal set up happend resonantly or sometimes back?


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## JimM (Jun 18, 2010)

Crows Arachnids said:


> Any amount of tarantulas other than one, living within the same confinement that do not avidly seek each others demise is truly what defines communal.


I respectfully disagree.
By your definition, I can get a 2000 gallon tank, put a P. ornata at each end, and I have a communal setup.

In truth I've simply provided an environment large enough to support more than one territory. Within a space that large I could put 6 or more ornatas in there, and still I don't have a communal setup. Just like with fish, some are schooling and social, some are territorial. With a large enough tank I can provide enough room for multiple territories, but they're hardly living communally or in a school. See the difference? I simply provide enough space within that closed area) to prevent overlapping territories.

I don't think the word "communal" is quite so plastic in it's definition as some seem propose. No the word has an actual meaning, "relating to a community" this more than implies that the inhabitants are safe from cannibalism, and not simply "unless they get too close to each other" or there isn't enough room.

Avondale spiders...there's a communal arachnid for you.


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## syndicate (Jun 18, 2010)

Ive kept formosa and rufilata together for over a year now..
Formosa are about 4-4.5" no losses
Rufilata are about 5" currently no losses.
I tried ornata and separated them after they began eating each other.I've also kept H.incei communally but they ate each other with only 2 mature males and 1 female surviving.Think I started with 10 slings of those?
In my experience Poecilotheria is one of the best tarantulas to keep in groups.I have read that striata,metallica and ornata do not do well together but like anything I'm sure there are exceptions!
Also I will say I find it surprising your keeping smithi together Crows arachnids.
Sounds like quite an expensive little project there!Considering how rare they are I dunno why you would want to risk them munching each other?
-Chris


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## xhexdx (Jun 18, 2010)

JimM said:


> By your definition, I can get a 2000 gallon tank, put a P. ornata at each end, and I have a communal setup.


This is exactly why I was inquiring about the parameters that define 'success', and now, for that matter, 'communal'.

Along that same line of thinking, Jim, one could take a tank that size, put a B. smithi, H. lividum, and P. metallica all in there and say they have a successful multi-species communal.

I think this thread could have some great potential, but only if people not only post what species they have experimented with, but quantities, duration, size of specimens at the beginning and end (or current sizes) of the communal, along with any observed cannibalism, and the enclosure size(s) used.

But hey, I'm just here to pick fights...


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## Anastasia (Jun 18, 2010)

syndicate said:


> <snips>I have read that striata,metallica and ornata do not do well together but like anything I'm sure there are exceptions!<snips>
> 
> -Chris


Yes, That is what I herd is well


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## Crows Arachnids (Jun 18, 2010)

JimM said:


> I respectfully disagree.
> By your definition, I can get a 2000 gallon tank, put a P. ornata at each end, and I have a communal setup.
> 
> In truth I've simply provided an environment large enough to support more than one territory. Within a space that large I could put 6 or more ornatas in there, and still I don't have a communal setup. Just like with fish, some are schooling and social, some are territorial. With a large enough tank I can provide enough room for multiple territories, but they're hardly living communally or in a school. See the difference? I simply provide enough space within that closed area) to prevent overlapping territories.
> ...


I must respectfully say, this is a sad attempt, or what looks to be one, at trying to strike up an arguement. This bait is weak, to say the least. Look up confinement. By YOUR definition (2,000 gallon tank) the enitire world is a confinement. Please, be realistic, why waste my time? Your analogy is skewed as well. I understand to the fullest extent, believe it or not  what communal means. If I thought it meant getting a 2,000 gallon tank and putting two tarantulas in together, I would have said so. If you are going to pick at my statements for the broad "possibility" of what they mean, please, think me not an ingrate before you do so. I am "respectfully" tired of your condescending undertone.


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## Crows Arachnids (Jun 18, 2010)

Anastasia said:


> hello,
> have any pictures on communal metallicas or smithi?
> and when did this communal set up happend resonantly or sometimes back?



No, Anastasia I don't currently have any pictures on these  However when I have those species hatch out, I will be putting 2 groups of 10 for both of them in a communal set up (it won't be a 2,000 gallon tank ). Now that I know there is a lot of interest I will start taking more pictures!!! I will keep you posted my dear. The Metallica were about 1 year ago, I seperated them when they were about 3" (these were NOT from the same sac ). There were 3 females and 2 males. The smithi I seperated about 4 months ago, they were about 2.5" or so. Once again, I have no pictures, sorry.


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## Crows Arachnids (Jun 18, 2010)

syndicate said:


> Ive kept formosa and rufilata together for over a year now..
> Formosa are about 4-4.5" no losses
> Rufilata are about 5" currently no losses.
> I tried ornata and separated them after they began eating each other.I've also kept H.incei communally but they ate each other with only 2 mature males and 1 female surviving.Think I started with 10 slings of those?
> ...


Indeed it is, but anything for the sake of study my friend


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## xhexdx (Jun 18, 2010)

Crows Arachnids said:


> No, Anastasia I don't currently have any pictures on these  However when I have those species hatch out, I will be putting 2 groups of 10 for both of them in a communal set up (it won't be a 2,000 gallon tank ). Now that I know there is a lot of interest I will start taking more pictures!!! I will keep you posted my dear. The Metallica were about 1 year ago, I seperated them when they were about 3" (these were NOT from the same sac ). There were 3 females and 2 males. The smithi I seperated about 4 months ago, they were about 2.5" or so. Once again, I have no pictures, sorry.


How big were they when you started?  How many did you start/end with?  How big were the enclosures?


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## JimM (Jun 18, 2010)

Crows Arachnids said:


> I must respectfully say, this is a sad attempt, or what looks to be one, at trying to strike up an arguement. This bait is weak, to say the least. Look up confinement. By YOUR definition (2,000 gallon tank) the enitire world is a confinement. Please, be realistic, why waste my time? Your analogy is skewed as well. I understand to the fullest extent, believe it or not  what communal means. If I thought it meant getting a 2,000 gallon tank and putting two tarantulas in together, I would have said so. If you are going to pick at my statements for the broad "possibility" of what they mean, please, think me not an ingrate before you do so. I am "respectfully" tired of your condescending undertone.


Wow.


Is there something in the water this week?
Crow I used that size to make a point - make it a 50 gallon with C. fasciatum if you want, or a 30 gallon with C. elegans - same thing applies.
This was too much for your fragile ego? Do you bruise so easily?

I shudder to think what would happen if I was actually going after you!!

I was trying to be polite and conversational, not condescending.
I guess all for naught, for you seem too fragile to be posting on the
interwebs at all.

At the risk of sounding condescending, I'll be more direct. You're statement about "communal" is by any educated assessment - wrong, ignorant and at odds with the easily accessible definition often applied over multiple genera.

Better?


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## Crows Arachnids (Jun 18, 2010)

xhexdx said:


> This is exactly why I was inquiring about the parameters that define 'success', and now, for that matter, 'communal'.
> 
> Along that same line of thinking, Jim, one could take a tank that size, put a B. smithi, H. lividum, and P. metallica all in there and say they have a successful multi-species communal.
> 
> ...


Joe, I think that avatar of yours keeps changing its make up! I do agree, this was my mild implication of adding tank size. I understand entirely where you are coming from, with all of that information our posts will be quite lengthy lol. However you know as well as I do, and most of us, when we say communal we mean within the same confinement (perhaps I should be more specific, lets try: a tank where they WILL encounter each other.) So youre here to pick fights huh? Lol cheers...


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## Anastasia (Jun 18, 2010)

Crows Arachnids said:


> No, Anastasia I don't currently have any pictures on these  However when I have those species hatch out, I will be putting 2 groups of 10 for both of them in a communal set up (it won't be a 2,000 gallon tank ). Now that I know there is a lot of interest I will start taking more pictures!!! I will keep you posted my dear. The Metallica were about 1 year ago, I seperated them when they were about 3" (these were NOT from the same sac ). There were 3 females and 2 males. The smithi I seperated about 4 months ago, they were about 2.5" or so. Once again, I have no pictures, sorry.


You kept Poecilotheria smithi communal for 8th months and separated 4 months ago, that means your project start sometime  July of 09 and kept communal till March 2010, hmm how that can be? 
the first import of P smithi in longest time to US just happened this February 2010
No one hatch those in last years in US is much is I know
so where did those P smithi came from?


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## Crows Arachnids (Jun 18, 2010)

JimM said:


> Wow.
> 
> 
> Is there something in the water this week?
> ...


It has nothing to do with my "ego". You are downright condescending, to the utmost degree. All for naught? Hmmmmm, I suppose so, why post? How is it wrong? Not encapsulating enough? I don't only make reference to this when I say you're condescending, by the way. You need to address why it is wrong. Perhaps I mis-worded it, but I understand exactly what it means. Enlighten me, I look to the dictionary and articles and I still miss it. I can't see you being polite.


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## Crows Arachnids (Jun 18, 2010)

Anastasia said:


> You kept Poecilotheria smithi communal for 8th months and separated 4 months ago, that means your project start sometime  July of 09 and kept communal till March 2010, hmm how that can be?
> the first import of P smithi in longest time to US just happened this February 2010
> No one hatch those in last years in US is much is I know
> so where did those P smithi came from?


I got these P. Smithi from a local dealer, you know I never inquired where he got them from. To be honest with you, I was unaware of the species until he mentioned them. I cannot mention his name, however I am now inclined to ask him where they came from.


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## JimM (Jun 18, 2010)

Crows Arachnids said:


> It has nothing to do with my "ego". You are downright condescending, to the utmost degree. All for naught? Hmmmmm, I suppose so, why post? How is it wrong? Not encapsulating enough? I don't only make reference to this when I say you're condescending, by the way. You need to address why it is wrong. Perhaps I mis-worded it, but I understand exactly what it means. Enlighten me, I look to the dictionary and articles and I still miss it. I can't see you being polite.


I made a polite, conversational and understandably reply to you given what you actually typed. I wasn't even in the realm of condescending. You threw a tantrum...the end.

We're typing to each other here, you need to allow a bit more leeway and give people the benefit of the doubt. Or again, stay off the net.

...and yes, it has everything to do with your ego. That's 100% the problem.


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## xhexdx (Jun 18, 2010)

JimM said:


> I made a polite, conversational and understandably reply to you given what you actually typed.


I'm a little confused, because I supported your original post and added points of my own, yet the response towards me was not even close to the response towards you.

Jim, I think you're taking my place on these boards!


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## Crows Arachnids (Jun 18, 2010)

JimM said:


> I made a polite, conversational and understandably reply to you given what you actually typed. I wasn't even in the realm of condescending. You threw a tantrum...the end.
> 
> We're typing to each other here, you need to allow a bit more leeway and give people the benefit of the doubt. Or again, stay off the net.
> 
> ...and yes, it has everything to do with your ego. That's 100% the problem.





There it is. Statements like "the end". Look, you aren't the end all, in my book or anywhere I'm sure. How can I give you the benefit of the doubt? Talk like that, blatency, doesn't really leave a lot of room. However, because you are always right, I digress. I apologize for getting defensive, I will assume from here on out that you apply no condescending undertone to everything you type.


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## Crows Arachnids (Jun 18, 2010)

xhexdx said:


> I'm a little confused, because I supported your original post and added points of my own, yet the response towards me was not even close to the response towards you.
> 
> Jim, I think you're taking my place on these boards!



Its all in the delivery.


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## xhexdx (Jun 18, 2010)

Crows Arachnids said:


> Its all in the delivery.


You must not read many of my posts.


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## Crows Arachnids (Jun 18, 2010)

xhexdx said:


> You must not read many of my posts.



No, I do. I am very aware of your reputation.


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## JimM (Jun 18, 2010)

Crows Arachnids said:


> Its all in the delivery.


BULL PUCKEY
I was as polite as can be, and fully explained where I was coming from and why.
You got challenged, (heads up, this sometimes happens when people talk about things) you couldn't handle it, you felt the need to lash out and save face - period. Ironically I gave you nothing to save face about, you could have simply posted with a polite clarification or another viewpoint, and we could have had an actual...CONVERSATION. Hey, what a concept!

I wasn't by even the loosest definition being disrespectful or condescending to you.

Joe, you can have your job back!


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## Crows Arachnids (Jun 18, 2010)

JimM said:


> BULL PUCKEY
> I was as polite as can be, and fully explained where I was coming from and why.
> You got challenged, (heads up, this sometimes happens when people talk about things) you couldn't handle it, you felt the need to lash out and safe face - period. Ironically I gave you nothing to save face about, you could have simply posted with a polite clarification or another viewpoint, and we could have had an actual...CONVERSATION. Hey, what a concept!
> 
> ...


I disagree. Once again as I mentioned, I do not only make reference to this when I say you are condescending. Save face? I had no need to do so. I still do not. You picked at my wording and applied some outrageous definiton and analogy to it. I don't feel I got challenged at all, I honestly feel that you got on here to do just this. You want a conversation? Let it begin. Without using an unapplicable analogy, towards my wording under your definition, explain to me how it is wrong. Once again if I mis-worded it, it will stand to be corrected, let me have it.


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## Crows Arachnids (Jun 18, 2010)

*Whoa*

Lets back up here. I unfortunately have several different individuals that access my account. Is there a way to have a different account with the same IP address? I know we have tried this in the past, and there was an issue. For clarification purposes, the individual corresponding with JIM is not in any way a representation for Crows Arachnids, someone please let me know if we can have a different account. Jim, if you don't mind, please make all references to Bruce, have fun guys....


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## JimM (Jun 18, 2010)

Crows Arachnids said:


> I disagree. Once again as I mentioned, I do not only make reference to this when I say you are condescending. Save face? I had no need to do so. I still do not. You picked at my wording and applied some outrageous definiton and analogy to it. I don't feel I got challenged at all, I honestly feel that you got on here to do just this. You want a conversation? Let it begin. Without using an unapplicable analogy, towards my wording under your definition, explain to me how it is wrong. Once again if I mis-worded it, it will stand to be corrected, let me have it.


Outrageous definition? I said what I said to fully illustrate a point - the difference between a communal setup, and a setup with enough space to allow multiple territories to  be established. I know a 2000 gallon tank is giant, but I used it to make a point - NOT to put you down or pick your words apart. Again, I think I deserve a bit more leeway here.

If I would have used the 50 gallon, C. fasciatum analogy, would we be in this same conversation? I almost used that one...one of those turning points in history eh?

Or, how about we just call it a misunderstanding a drop it?
Either way I'm supposed to be learning a 3D app, and have to stop looking here soon. My productivity is suffering mightily.


----------



## JimM (Jun 18, 2010)

Crows Arachnids said:


> Lets back up here. I unfortunately have several different individuals that access my account. Is there a way to have a different account with the same IP address? I know we have tried this in the past, and there was an issue. For clarification purposes, the individual corresponding with JIM is not in any way a representation for Crows Arachnids, someone please let me know if we can have a different account. Jim, if you don't mind, please make all references to Bruce, have fun guys....



You've been hacked?


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## Anastasia (Jun 18, 2010)

That is sound like bail out


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## Crows Arachnids (Jun 18, 2010)

JimM said:


> Outrageous definition? I said what I said to fully illustrate a point - the difference between a communal setup, and a setup with enough space to allow multiple territories to  be established. I know a 2000 gallon tank is giant, but I used it to make a point - NOT to put you down or pick your words apart. Again, I think I deserve a bit more leeway here.
> 
> If I would have used the 50 gallon, C. fasciatum analogy, would we be in this same conversation? I almost used that one...one of those turning points in history eh?
> 
> ...



I seem to have upset my uncle by carrying on with this. Dropping it is fine, however I would appreciate you explaining to me how it was wrong. I will attempt to get my own account soon, so until then just pm this account, many thanks


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## Crows Arachnids (Jun 18, 2010)

JimM said:


> You've been hacked?


No, he said there were multiple people that have access to his account. I am one of them.


----------



## JimM (Jun 18, 2010)

Crows Arachnids said:


> I seem to have upset my uncle by carrying on with this. Dropping it is fine, however I would appreciate you explaining to me how it was wrong. I will attempt to get my own account soon, so until then just pm this account, many thanks


I said that after you contended that my polite post was condescending.

So to back up, I simply wanted to clarify that T's ( or anything) living within an enclosure may or may not be an example of a communal setup, depending on how much space we're talking about, and the presence or absence of territorial behavior within that space - that's all.


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## Crows Arachnids (Jun 18, 2010)

Anastasia said:


> That is sound like bail out


No, Anastasia. There are 4 different people that have access to this account. However it concerns me that something like this is happening, I am big on representation. So, a couple changes will be taking place around here. Truthfully, I (Jonathan) am never on these forums, I don't have the time  However I doubt my nephew would ever bail out, just for the record


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## kripp_keeper (Jun 18, 2010)

Crows Arachnids said:


> No, he said there were multiple people that have access to his account. I am one of them.


Just sign your name like everyone else that has more then one person per account.


Like this.
     John K.



Edit. I've read some of Jim's  condescending post. He may not realize it but his wording at times seem to have a rude undertone. However I don't think his original statement seemed really rude or condescending; he simply stated a fact about multiple territories.


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## Crows Arachnids (Jun 18, 2010)

kripp_keeper said:


> Just sign your name like everyone else that has more then one person per account.
> 
> 
> Like this.
> John K.



Well that is quite nifty! Thanks my friend  

- Jonathan


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## Crows Arachnids (Jun 18, 2010)

kripp_keeper said:


> Just sign your name like everyone else that has more then one person per account.
> 
> 
> Like this.
> ...


That is my whole source of energy on this John, but this is truly for naught. This isn't going over well with my uncle, so I'm done. However I knew I wasn't the only one who recognized it.  Bruce


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## xhexdx (Jun 18, 2010)

Crows Arachnids said:


> There are 4 different people that have access to this account.


I'm pretty sure that falls under rule 3 located here:

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=110034


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## Crows Arachnids (Jun 18, 2010)

xhexdx said:


> I'm pretty sure that falls under rule 3 located here:
> 
> http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=110034


Well now, I completely missed that. I will contact them on this matter. Thank you. -Jonathan


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## JimM (Jun 18, 2010)

Crows Arachnids said:


> That is my whole source of energy on this John, but this is truly for naught. This isn't going over well with my uncle, so I'm done. However I knew I wasn't the only one who recognized it.  Bruce



Uhh...you might want to do some research on Kripp's recent posts...you might think differently about his credibility in this matter.
He's latching on here to make a digg since he got owned in that other thread.


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## AbraCadaver (Jun 18, 2010)

I know this can't be classified as succesful at any rate, for several different reasons, but the guy I bought my A.sp.Mystery from, kept several avicularia species together, mixed genders.  The species were; A.avic(f), A.metallica(f), A.veriscolor(m), A.Bicegoi(m), A.sp.Amazonica(f), A.purpurea(f). As far as I know, this communal is still going strong, and he's gotten another weirdo sac.. It disgusts me in so many ways, but I was very intrested to see how this sling would turn out..  

I wonder, can T's be fertilized in the same manner as dogs? Like, can one sac have different "fathers"?  The one that laid the sac is an a.avic.

I don't know, at the moment, mystery avic has the colours of my juvie a.bicegoi that passed.


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## Crows Arachnids (Jun 18, 2010)

Jim with all due respect, please do not post anymore on this matter as he no longer has access to my account. I have contacted the Arachnoboards Team so that he may have his own account. Until that happens I appreciate your patience on the matter.


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## JimM (Jun 18, 2010)

Crows Arachnids said:


> Jim with all due respect, please do not post anymore on this matter as he no longer has access to my account. I have contacted the Arachnoboards Team so that he may have his own account. Until that happens I appreciate your patience on the matter.


No worries, the horse is beaten to death, rolled over and beaten again, and it's all good.
The joys of written communication...


Aside from dealing with Kripps' little whine, I'm done.


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## AbraxasComplex (Jun 18, 2010)

Back on track...

These are my social/subsocial groups. I refer to them as social since adult and subadults tolerate one another, but do not share the same burrow. Even in close proximity adults will not consume/abort their eggsacs. They have extended care of their young and will share the burrow/web until the spiderlings are of considerable size. Unrelated juveniles will also share overly large meals. Some of these tanks have been running for years with multiple generations born and raised in the tank. Others have just been started.

Heterothele gabonensis (4 months no losses)
Heterothele villosella (2+ years 30 strong, 8 originally introduced)
Holothele incei (3 years, 100? strong, have removed an average of 50 each year to sell, started with 10)
Holothele incei "gold" (3 months no losses)
Holothele sp. Colombia AKA the bumble bee (1 month, 3 groups, no losses)
Ischnothele caudata (6 months)


Tolerant/subsocial (tolerate breeding partners for extended periods of time, take care of young for extended periods)

Monocentropus balfouri (2 adults, 2 months, male's burrow is right beside the females)



Communal - Adults share the same burrow with other adults, multiple young and juveniles from various batches also live in the same burrow. Larger prey is shared between individuals.

Pamphobeteus sp. chicken spider (7 months, 2 groups, no losses) 




Induced Tolerant – Juveniles and adults tolerate each other for extended periods of time due to instinctual behavior arising from the decrease in viable surface area. They do not share burrows/webs at any stage for extended periods and will usually abort sacs if produced when other tarantulas are in close proximity for too long.

Avicularia avicularia (2 years, 4 strong, multiple sacs, all aborted)
Holothele sp. NDS (1.5 years, 8 strong, all sacs aborted)


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## kripp_keeper (Jun 18, 2010)

JimM said:


> No worries, the horse is beaten to death, rolled over and beaten again, and it's all good.
> The joys of written communication...
> 
> 
> Aside from dealing with Kripps' little whine, I'm done.



You are still the same smart ass 10 year old I guess. I didn't get "owned" in anything, this isn't a RPG. You were rude in the other thread, and you did use mildly offensive language in the thread you are referring to. Just because I didn't see you as that way in your original statement in this one doesn't mean I like you, or were defending you. I find your an immature little boy who thinks he is better then everyone because he has more(allegedly) experience.


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## JimM (Jun 18, 2010)

Thanks Abraxas, the thread needed that.

I wish I liked Heterothele/Holothele, but they just don't grab me for some reason.

I may have to play with M. balfouri at some point though - beautiful animal.


Do you have any pics of these guys?


> Holothele sp. Colombia AKA the bumble bee


I remember seeing a pic of a brilliant yellow and black Holothele that did interest me, maybe this was it.


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## JimM (Jun 18, 2010)

kripp_keeper said:


> You are still the same smart ass 10 year old I guess. I didn't get "owned" in anything, this isn't a RPG. You were rude in the other thread, and you did use mildly offensive language in the thread you are referring to. Just because I didn't see you as that way in your original statement in this one doesn't mean I like you, or were defending you. I find your an immature little boy who thinks he is better then everyone because he has more(allegedly) experience.



I knew the ignore feature would come in handy at some point.


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## AbraxasComplex (Jun 18, 2010)

JimM said:


> Thanks Abraxas, the thread needed that.
> 
> I wish I liked Heterothele/Holothele, but they just don't grab me for some reason.
> 
> ...


Yep. I do 

And I understand. Pokies have never interested me in the slightest.

Here's a terrible pic of the Holothele sp. in their temp enclosure before I moved them to the larger one.







Or the topic:

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=181737


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## kripp_keeper (Jun 18, 2010)

JimM said:


> I knew the ignore feature would come in handy at some point.


You started it then ignored me. Good for you with your massive amounts of alleged  experience.


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## JimM (Jun 18, 2010)

AbraxasComplex said:


> Yep. I do
> 
> And I understand. Pokies have never interested me in the slightest.
> 
> ...


Ahh...yes. That's a nice little tarantula.
Exactly the one I remember...I might be tempted at some point.


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## Crows Arachnids (Jun 18, 2010)

Anastasia said:


> You kept Poecilotheria smithi communal for 8th months and separated 4 months ago, that means your project start sometime  July of 09 and kept communal till March 2010, hmm how that can be?
> the first import of P smithi in longest time to US just happened this February 2010
> No one hatch those in last years in US is much is I know
> so where did those P smithi came from?


Anastasia, I just got done reading all of this thread. We received P. Smithi from a local dealer, this is true, however a little added detail, I believe that the Smithi were received from someone here in America. I doubt they were imported. There are a lot of breedings that take place under the table so to speak, so I cannot speak for everyone in America, but who knows, perhaps someone did breed them. For example, I have produced A. Diversipes here but I never posted them for sale as I only had 12 slings survive, but I did breed them and just recently someone claimed to have had the 1st US captive breeding, long after mine. Not sure if that helps at all. In reference to the P. Metallica, we had several living together, I believe 5 and they all did very well. We got them from different places just to test the theory that they can be communal regardless of seperation, however we can't be certain that they all did not come from the same sac. For sure one of them did, as it was a 4th instar and the rest were 3rd instar. They started about 1" or so and we seperated them at 2.5" or so, none were eaten. The P. Smithi, were kept together for some time and we still have them. They are about 3" now and seem to be doing fine. I have held back on feeding them too much as I am timing some breeding projects, but they are definately older than the Febuaray imports (which I have some of those as well). Does this help at all?


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## Anastasia (Jun 18, 2010)

Abraxas, 
those bumble bees awesome looking Holothele, I'd love to see when they will webb it all and saddle in


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## Anastasia (Jun 18, 2010)

Crows Arachnids said:


> Anastasia, I just got done reading all of this thread. We received P. Smithi from a local dealer, this is true, however a little added detail, I believe that the Smithi were received from someone here in America. I doubt they were imported. There are a lot of breedings that take place under the table so to speak, so I cannot speak for everyone in America, but who knows, perhaps someone did breed them. For example, I have produced A. Diversipes here but I never posted them for sale as I only had 12 slings survive, but I did breed them and just recently someone claimed to have had the 1st US captive breeding, long after mine. Not sure if that helps at all. In reference to the P. Metallica, we had several living together, I believe 5 and they all did very well. We got them from different places just to test the theory that they can be communal regardless of seperation, however we can't be certain that they all did not come from the same sac. For sure one of them did, as it was a 4th instar and the rest were 3rd instar. They started about 1" or so and we seperated them at 2.5" or so, none were eaten. The P. Smithi, were kept together for some time and we still have them. They are about 3" now and seem to be doing fine. I have held back on feeding them too much as I am timing some breeding projects, but they are definately older than the Febuaray imports (which I have some of those as well). Does this help at all?


All right, I assume this is Jonathan,
Jonathan,
This hobby isn't that big that if something very rare got produced here in US it would kept in total secret, I dont believe it
also, you keep saying you did this and that and produced and this and that 
but besides your words you have nothing 
and with out any back up evidence its just more smoke
and its just seems alot of it lately


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## sharpfang (Jun 18, 2010)

*Nice thread {smirk}*

I have seen Avic Avic and Regalis Communals {Over Time...}, But Both ended in approximately 25% "Success" 2 years later.... IMO, It can sometimes, Mostly "work". I have 10 ct. OBT's 2"+ currently, w/ 2 Down, after 3 months....

A.Complex: *Nice* Bumblebees! Buzz, Buzz, Buzz!



KenTheBugGuy said:


> As I said it would be nice for people just to post that stuff and others can decide...I wish I had kept success out of the title as I can't change that I was just looking for peoples experience with communal groups. Not to start semantic arguments. Its just ridiculous almost every thread on AB seems to get into one of these arguments.


It is, Isn't it  Good try @ Normalcy and Discussion 



xhexdx said:


> But hey, I'm just here to pick fights...





xhexdx said:


> Jim, I think you're taking my place on these boards!





xhexdx said:


> You must not read many of my posts.





Crows Arachnids said:


> No, I do. I am very aware of your reputation.





JimM said:


> Joe, you can have your job back!


 How bout' you BOTH, Find NEW Jobs ?


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## Crows Arachnids (Jun 18, 2010)

Anastasia said:


> All right, I assume this is Jonathan,
> Jonathan,
> This hobby isn't that big that if something very rare got produced here in US it would kept in total secret, I dont believe it
> also, you keep saying you did this and that and produced and this and that
> ...


Anastasia, I don't think so. I have alot of individuals that I associate with in the reptile hobby, and when they produce something, half the time if it is extremely rare they hold on to it without too much advertisement, for reasons that I just don't know of. I have every reason to believe that it isn't entirely different in this hobby. You, and I cannot speak for anyone, ever, that is how I feel, we can't say someone didn't produce anything, the fact of the matter is, we just never know. Anastasia, what in heavens name are you talking about? I did this and I produced that? In reference to this post? Give me more context. I know you think you are quite the find in this hobby, as relayed to me by many, but I really have little concern for what you believe. I have nothing, at all, in any way shape or form to prove to you. I await the context, thank you. I will openly admit, however, that I was a fool for not taking pictures, I just bought a camera, I can't wait to post some pics


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## PrimalTaunt (Jun 18, 2010)

Crows Arachnids said:


> Poecilotheria Pederseni- PAIR male lived with female for 6 months no issues, assistant forgot to feed her, male dissapeared, I attribute that to lack of food. She is currently with another male, now for 2 weeks, no issues thus far.


I would like something cleared up.  When you're listing pairs - is that for the purpose of breeding and you're just leaving them in together or actually reintroducing two to each other?  I assume that it's the former but I just want to make sure.


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## AbraCadaver (Jun 18, 2010)

Ah, the all-knowing personalities in this hobby


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## Crows Arachnids (Jun 18, 2010)

PrimalTaunt said:


> I would like something cleared up.  When you're listing pairs - is that for the purpose of breeding and you're just leaving them in together or actually reintroducing two to each other?  I assume that it's the former but I just want to make sure.




Yes, thats what I tend to do, all for the purposes of breeding. I just leave the male in until he either gets chomped or there are definate signs of gravidity. Of course if I have only one male to 3 females, then I rotate, it really all depends. If it is high end, I also pull the male. Of course, I don't do that with anything that isn't considered communal.


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## PrimalTaunt (Jun 18, 2010)

Crows Arachnids said:


> Yes, thats what I tend to do, all for the purposes of breeding. I just leave the male in until he either gets chomped or there are definate signs of gravidity. Of course if I have only one male to 3 females, then I rotate, it really all depends. If it is high end, I also pull the male. Of course, I don't do that with anything that isn't considered communal.


Thank you for the clarification.


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## Ms.X (Jun 18, 2010)

Crows Arachnids said:


> Poecilotheria Metallica- PAIRS (4 pairs) Ranged from 4-8 months No issues.





Crows Arachnids said:


> Yes, thats what I tend to do, all for the purposes of breeding. I just leave the male in until he either gets chomped or there are definate signs of gravidity.  If it is high end, I also pull the male.


Just a quick clarification, do you not consider _P. metallica_ to be high end, or was this just an exception to the rule (4 cases/4 different pairs)?


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## sharpfang (Jun 18, 2010)

**Tee-Hee**



AbraCadaver said:


> Ah, the all-knowing personalities in this hobby


I like YOUR Personality, and Pics  How's the Cobalt Doin' ? Since you got Yours......I aquired a 4"+ female......she is resting for Pre-molting process...I don't think a Communal of those, would be VERY "Successful" {grinin'}.


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## Crows Arachnids (Jun 18, 2010)

Ms.X said:


> Just a quick clarification, do you not consider _P. metallica_ to be high end, or was this just an exception to the rule (4 cases/4 different pairs)?


I had 4 different females and 4 different males. I do consider them high end, I would be quite crazy if I didn't  However I did leave all of the males in with the females. One pair is still going stong. I had one lay a sac, it was infertile :evil: One molted (the individual I bought it from, definately did not have the correct molt date). The last female I am currently awaiting a sac from. I currently have only one male alive. The three eventually died in the corner of their girl's tanks  I assume because of old age, I had them for quite some time.


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## xhexdx (Jun 18, 2010)

sharpfang said:


> It is, Isn't it  Good try @ Normalcy and Discussion


..............................


sharpfang said:


> How bout' you BOTH, Find NEW Jobs ?





sharpfang said:


> I like YOUR Personality, and Pics  How's the Cobalt Doin' ? Since you got Yours......I aquired a 4"+ female......she is resting for Pre-molting process...I don't think a Communal of those, would be VERY "Successful" {grinin'}.


How about you heed your own advice and try to stay on-topic?  There was no need for any of your garbage; the thread was back on track, why not try and keep it that way?


----------



## AbraCadaver (Jun 18, 2010)

sharpfang said:


> I like YOUR Personality, and Pics  How's the Cobalt Doin' ? Since you got Yours......I aquired a 4"+ female......she is resting for Pre-molting process...I don't think a Communal of those, would be VERY "Successful" {grinin'}.


haha, that would be hell in a box, that would!

My wee baby is getting along fine. Loads of attitude! Tried laying down a few waterdrops for it, and it attacked the syringe   I love it though, can't wait for it to get bigger, and get its colours!

Sorry peeps, gonna try and not go all off topic here.. 

If I didn't get so attached to my spideys, I'd try a communal.. I'd bawl me eyes out if one got eaten =p


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## sharpfang (Jun 18, 2010)

xhexdx said:


> ..............................
> How about you heed your own advice and try to stay on-topic?  There was no need for any of your garbage; the thread was back on track, why not try and keep it that way?


No Garbage Here, just your Quotes ....Thought I'd just take Out the TRASH.....Ohhhhhhhhhhhh! :razz: 

Back on my Ignore list :razz: Only took ya off to Comment on your typical Arguing..... What ? what ? I can't here You


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## sharpfang (Jun 18, 2010)

*Hell-N-a-Box......Like in Pro "Wrestling"*



AbraCadaver said:


> haha, that would be hell in a box, that would!
> 
> Sorry peeps, gonna try and not go all off topic here..
> 
> If I didn't get so attached to my spideys, I'd try a communal.. I'd bawl me eyes out if one got eaten =p


Good Point Abra.


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## AbraCadaver (Jun 18, 2010)

Now, now, you kids behave =p


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## Anastasia (Jun 18, 2010)

Crows Arachnids said:


> Anastasia, I don't think so. I have alot of individuals that I associate with in the reptile hobby, and when they produce something, half the time if it is extremely rare they hold on to it without too much advertisement, for reasons that I just don't know of. I have every reason to believe that it isn't entirely different in this hobby. You, and I cannot speak for anyone, ever, that is how I feel, we can't say someone didn't produce anything, the fact of the matter is, we just never know. Anastasia, what in heavens name are you talking about? I did this and I produced that? In reference to this post? Give me more context. I know you think you are quite the find in this hobby, as relayed to me by many, but I really have little concern for what you believe. I have nothing, at all, in any way shape or form to prove to you. I await the context, thank you. I will openly admit, however, that I was a fool for not taking pictures, I just bought a camera, I can't wait to post some pics


Ah, there goes more words........

BTW, I gata say, last year I produced very rare sac of elephants, first one ever not even in US, 
kept them communal until they couldn't fit in my house, then I had to move them in my back yard and still keep em very secretive so even my neighbors still dont know nothing about  

PS, sorry got no pictures


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## sharpfang (Jun 18, 2010)

*Lol*



AbraCadaver said:


> Now, now, you kids behave =p


 :razz:  he started it Mommy......


----------



## AbraCadaver (Jun 18, 2010)

Anastasia said:


> Ah, there goes more words........
> 
> BTW, I gata say, last year I produced very rare sac of elephants, first one ever not even in US,
> kept them communal until they couldn't fit in my house, then I had to move them in my back yard and still keep em very secretive so even my neighbors still dont know nothing about


Even though he may not have any pics to prove it, you cant prove it didnt happen.. So I don't think this will go anywhere.=p

And could you send me an elephant? I have a spare drawer..


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## sharpfang (Jun 18, 2010)

*O.K. Ana.....*



Anastasia said:


> Ah, there goes more words........
> 
> BTW, I gata say, last year I produced very rare sac of elephants, first one ever not even in US,
> kept them communal until they couldn't fit in my house, then I had to move them in my back yard and still keep em very secretive so even my neighbors still dont know nothing about


I have to see  Pics! I don't beleive you Hun :razz:  JK, I do 
I bet I found an item, that you Will trade me  You pay shipping though


----------



## AbraCadaver (Jun 18, 2010)

sharpfang said:


> :razz:  he started it Mommy......


Technically, you did


----------



## Anastasia (Jun 18, 2010)

AbraCadaver said:


> Even though he may not have any pics to prove it, you cant prove it didnt happen.. So I don't think this will go anywhere.=p
> 
> And could you send me an elephant? I have a spare drawer..


OK, even trade! elephant for Norway whale ;P


----------



## Ms.X (Jun 18, 2010)

AbraCadaver said:


> Even though he may not have any pics to prove it, you cant prove it didnt happen..


I am quite confident that anyone in the U.S. hobby that bred P. smithi/sold P. smithi would have made some sort of announcement to someone else within.  Also, how could you possibly come to possess P. smithi and not understand the rarity?  I suppose it could be possible, but highly unlikely in my opinion.  I rather enjoyed Ana's little joke.


----------



## Crows Arachnids (Jun 18, 2010)

Anastasia said:


> Ah, there goes more words........
> 
> BTW, I gata say, last year I produced very rare sac of elephants, first one ever not even in US,
> kept them communal until they couldn't fit in my house, then I had to move them in my back yard and still keep em very secretive so even my neighbors still dont know nothing about


Im sorry Anastasia, if you don't understand English, Im not sure where to go with it. You made an accusation, you should address it. I still have no idea what you are talking about. Are you saying that I don't posess the spiders that were mentioned, or even worse, that I lie about breeding things? If that's the case you are sadly mistaken. I of course have never lied about anything we have bred over here, or what we posess, but still you make an accusation, I would love to know, based on what? You make many claims Anastasia, to have high end this and superior that, you never answer my questions, is this a pattern of yours, or should I just accuse you of lying? By the way, I bred those elephants before you.


----------



## Crows Arachnids (Jun 18, 2010)

Ms.X said:


> I am quite confident that anyone in the U.S. hobby that bred P. smithi/sold P. smithi would have made some sort of announcement to someone else within.  Also, how could you possibly come to possess P. smithi and not understand the rarity?  I suppose it could be possible, but highly unlikely in my opinion.  I rather enjoyed Ana's little joke.



Wait, take a step back. I understood the rarity completely, and I never implied that I didn't, I was just unaware of it period until he presented it to me. Once again I can't speak for anyone, I do have them, thats all I can say.


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## Crows Arachnids (Jun 18, 2010)

*Nevermind*

Nevermind, if that wasn't directed at me. I apologize.


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## AbraCadaver (Jun 18, 2010)

Ms.X said:


> I am quite confident that anyone in the U.S. hobby that bred P. smithi/sold P. smithi would have made some sort of announcement to someone else within.  Also, how could you possibly come to possess P. smithi and not understand the rarity?  I suppose it could be possible, but highly unlikely in my opinion.  I rather enjoyed Ana's little joke.


So did I, just meant I dont think she'll come far with it 

And anastasia; one norway whale coming right up! Would you prefer it alive or chopped into steaks


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## Ms.X (Jun 18, 2010)

Crows Arachnids said:


> I got these P. Smithi from a local dealer, you know I never inquired where he got them from. To be honest with you, I was unaware of the species until he mentioned them. I cannot mention his name, however I am now inclined to ask him where they came from.





Crows Arachnids said:


> Wait, take a step back. I understood the rarity completely, and I never implied that I didn't, I was just unaware of it period until he presented it to me. Once again I can't speak for anyone, I do have them, thats all I can say.


I'm not trying to put you on the defensive, but you seem to contradict yourself.  You state that you were unaware, does this mean that you were unaware of the lack of imports/breeding...I'm not quite getting what you were unaware of, if it wasn't the rarity.


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## AbraCadaver (Jun 18, 2010)

I *think* he was unaware it was a smithi..?


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## Crows Arachnids (Jun 18, 2010)

Ms.X said:


> I'm not trying to put you on the defensive, but you seem to contradict yourself.  You state that you were unaware, does this mean that you were unaware of the lack of imports/breeding...I'm not quite getting what you were unaware of, if it wasn't the rarity.





No problem Ms. X. I was unaware of the species existence period. When he presented them to me, I recognized the rarity, after a bit of research. I don't know if I can make that more clear


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## Anastasia (Jun 18, 2010)

Crows Arachnids said:


> Im sorry Anastasia, if you don't understand English, Im not sure where to go with it. You made an accusation, you should address it. I still have no idea what you are talking about. Are you saying that I don't posess the spiders that were mentioned, or even worse, that I lie about breeding things? If that's the case you are sadly mistaken. I of course have never lied about anything we have bred over here, or what we posess, but still you make an accusation, I would love to know, based on what? You make many claims Anastasia, to have high end this and superior that, you never answer my questions, is this a pattern of yours, or should I just accuse you of lying? By the way, I bred those elephants before you.


Jonathan,
I understand enough English to know when someone full of tootsi-rolls
there was no accusations but simple questions and facts
and you all got cocky and defensive 
You been pestering me wit PM's about my Poecilotheria again and again, what I do and how I do it, and I would not gona tell you
now you say anything you want,
the ignore button is on


lights out


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## Ms.X (Jun 18, 2010)

Crows Arachnids said:


> No problem Ms. X. I was unaware of the species existence period. When he presented them to me, I recognized the rarity, after a bit of research. I don't know if I can make that more clear


Ok, I'm trying to get this all straight.
You never knew they existed, which means that you didn't have any experience with caring for them.  You research them, then you say you understood the rarity.  Then knowing the rarity and having no previous experience with them, you set up a communal?  I'm just trying to understand your motivation/reasoning behind doing this if you truly understood the rarity, and the chance you were taking with your lack of experience with this species.  Did someone advise you on the communal habits of this species, or did you find something in your research that suggested that this would work?


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## Crows Arachnids (Jun 18, 2010)

Anastasia said:


> Jonathan,
> I understand enough English to know when someone full of tootsi-rolls
> there was no accusations but simple questions and facts
> and you all got cocky and defensive
> ...


Whether or not I am on ignore, you will see or hear about this post one way or another. Anastasia, that is, no words minced, a lie. I sent you a pm on ONE occasion asking you to define what you meant when you claimed to have better Poecilotheria than everyone else. We then exchanged a handfull of pms where you avoided the question. There were accusations, not much to say there... Im sorry, but if Im full of it, we both are. Cheers...


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## AbraCadaver (Jun 18, 2010)

can we get back to communals? although I do enjoy a good drama, communals are far more prudent in this section, as well as more intresting at this point.


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## Crows Arachnids (Jun 18, 2010)

Ms.X said:


> Ok, I'm trying to get this all straight.
> You never knew they existed, which means that you didn't have any experience with caring for them.  You research them, then you say you understood the rarity.  Then knowing the rarity and having no previous experience with them, you set up a communal?  I'm just trying to understand your motivation/reasoning behind doing this if you truly understood the rarity, and the chance you were taking with your lack of experience with this species.  Did someone advise you on the communal habits of this species, or did you find something in your research that suggested that this would work?



Yes, there was this theory that if they were communal, they would grow faster, meaning I could breed them sooner. Also, he said they were very communal. I bit into that. In the end, they did not eat each other, so I suppose it worked. I did not note any expediated growth however. :wall: One can come a long way in a year, but let me tell you, I take risks all the time, if we didn't I don't think we would be where we are in the hobby. By the way, that theory of them growing faster in a communal set up is still preached by some, I have yet to see it though.


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## Ms.X (Jun 18, 2010)

Crows Arachnids said:


> Yes, there was this theory that if they were communal, they would grow faster, meaning I could breed them sooner. Also, he said they were very communal. I bit into that. In the end, they did not eat each other, so I suppose it worked. I did not note any expediated growth however. :wall: One can come a long way in a year, but let me tell you, I take risks all the time, if we didn't I don't think we would be where we are in the hobby. By the way, that theory of them growing faster in a communal set up is still preached by some, I have yet to see it though.


What did you use for your growth comparison?  Did you have other individually housed specimens?


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## Crows Arachnids (Jun 18, 2010)

Ms.X said:


> What did you use for your growth comparison?  Did you have other individually housed specimens?


I did indeed  They all grew at the same rate. I currently have 12 P. Smithi over here, some from then, some from times more recent. With all of this talk about how it is impossible to have gotten them, I must admit, a seed of doubt has been planted that they are true Smithi. I have never really paid that much attention however now I shall so I will verify that later. Anyway, I had 5 that were communal and 2 that werent, they grew at the same rate.


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## Ms.X (Jun 18, 2010)

Crows Arachnids said:


> I did indeed  They all grew at the same rate. I currently have 12 P. Smithi over here, some from then, some from times more recent. With all of this talk about how it is impossible to have gotten them, I must admit, a seed of doubt has been planted that they are true Smithi. I have never really paid that much attention however now I shall so I will verify that later. Anyway, I had 5 that were communal and 2 that werent, they grew at the same rate.


Thank you for the explanation.  I would definitely look into getting a positive identification on them.  I seem to remember reading (fairly recently, probably the end of last year/beginning of this year) about confusion with _P. smithi_ identification due to similarities with other _Poecilotheria_ sp.  This genus is not my strong suit, so I don't have any particular insight to contribute as far as ID is concerned.  Best of luck clearing that up.


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## Crows Arachnids (Jun 18, 2010)

*P. Fasciata*

I heard about the scandal of Fasciata and Smithi......


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## dianedfisher (Jun 19, 2010)

Jonathan, All I can say is my bullcrap meter is clanging.  I would think anyone with 12 Poecilotheria smithi, 4 pairs of Poecilotheria metallica and the other Poecilotheria that you own could afford a camera and the bragging rights that go with such awesome purchases.  I don't post much here, but I read a lot.  With a 68 post count, I have to wonder where you came from and why with all of your breeding experience (or is it only MATING experience?) you've managed to keep such a low profile.  If you really have everything you posted, I wish you luck with your pairings.  Success would be a big boost to the U.S. hobby.  If you're like me and you post elsewhere, I'd love to read of some of your successes.  Most of mine are posted on the ATS.
On topic:
I have kept many of my breeding projects communally because they're easier to feed that way.
Pterinochilus murinis:  I have pairs living for over 6 months in 7 gram vials and they're all still intact.  Same for Tapinauchenius plumipes.  I had 9 Heterocodra maculata living in a spice jar and over 1 year later had 2.  My Tapinauchenius violaceus ate one another.  My Tapinachenius cupreus are cohabiting nicely but there are so many I would never know if a few disappeared as there are about 40 of them in a pretzel jar.  I have Poecilotheria pederseni living in 3's and 5's so far no losses but they are only about 6 weeks together. Just rehoused my Psalmopoeus cambridgei and found a youngster living with her after more than 1 year.  Same with the mama H.maculata.  She had 2 youngsters still living with her.
I'm wondering if feeding schedules have anything to do with loss rates.  Perhaps well fed individuals are less likley to munch their siblings?
Di


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## Crows Arachnids (Jun 19, 2010)

dianedfisher said:


> Jonathan, All I can say is my BS meter is clanging.  I would think anyone with 12 Poecilotheria smithi, 4 pairs of Poecilotheria metallica and the other Poecilotheria that you own could afford a camera and the bragging rights that go with such awesome purchases.  I don't post much here, but I read a lot.  With a 68 post count, I have to wonder where you came from and why with all of your breeding experience (or is it only MATING experience?) you've managed to keep such a low profile.  If you really have everything you posted, I wish you luck with your pairings.  Success would be a big boost to the U.S. hobby.  If you're like me and you post elsewhere, I'd love to read of some of your successes.  Most of mine are posted on the ATS.
> On topic:
> I have kept many of my breeding projects communally because they're easier to feed that way.
> Pterinochilus murinis:  I have pairs living for over 6 months in 7 gram vials and they're all still intact.  Same for Tapinauchenius plumipes.  I had 9 Heterocodra maculata living in a spice jar and over 1 year later had 2.  My Tapinauchenius violaceus ate one another.  My Tapinachenius cupreus are cohabiting nicely but there are so many I would never know if a few disappeared as there are about 40 of them in a pretzel jar.  I have Poecilotheria pederseni living in 3's and 5's so far no losses but they are only about 6 weeks together. Just rehoused my Psalmopoeus cambridgei and found a youngster living with her after more than 1 year.  Same with the mama H.maculata.  She had 2 youngsters still living with her.
> ...



I can only LOL at that. I have more than 4  Anyway, I have not successfully produced the Metallica yet. Pics will be up soon  I own two businesses, I just haven't had the time, thats the down to goodness truth. Other than that, wait for the pictures. Also, I never said I couldn't afford a camera  I just never got one.


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## super-pede (Jun 19, 2010)

I have got to ask.Why is P.smithi so special?to me most sp. of pokies look the same but that's just me.

*S-P*


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## Philth (Jun 19, 2010)

super-pede said:


> I have got to ask.Why is P.smithi so special?to me most sp. of pokies look the same but that's just me.
> 
> *S-P*


Rare, hard to find, difficult to breed, and good old supply and demand.  Not something you would regularly find at your local dealer, or take chances with a communal set up, and not have pics, and nobody else would know about...:?

As well I've only had a communal set up with_ P. regalis_ that started with about 10.  By the time the first male matured I was down to 3 and separated them.



syndicate said:


> I've also kept H.incei communally but they ate each other with only 2 mature males and 1 female surviving.Think I started with 10 slings of those?
> 
> -Chris


This is the most interesting post to me in this thread as _H. incei_ are generally the most accepted as a "communal sp"  In my opinion communal set up usually don't work, but I know theres a hundreds of pokie pics proving me wrong.  Its just not for me.

Later, Tom


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## sharpfang (Jun 19, 2010)

*I got a P.Smithi finally the Other Day*

And it Already ate :} Video 2 "prove" it  
[YOUTUBE]<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/uPkb58Maq1A&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/uPkb58Maq1A&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>[/YOUTUBE]

Pic of Ken's new communal Tank, w/ Mayan-style theme:


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## KenTheBugGuy (Jun 19, 2010)

*Huge setup*

I have a Regalis cage with 150 slings in it...will be interesting


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## syndicate (Jun 19, 2010)

KenTheBugGuy said:


> I have a Regalis cage with 150 slings in it...will be interesting


What size tank did you use?As long as they don't have to much space to establish there own territory I'd say they should do awesome!
-Chris


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## Protectyaaaneck (Jun 19, 2010)

Crows Arachnids said:


> With all of this talk about how it is impossible to have gotten them, I must admit, a seed of doubt has been planted that they are true Smithi.


Waaaaaait a second.  Are these the same p. smithi you are currently selling?  If they aren't the real thing than there are going to be some really p.o.'d customers....


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## Protectyaaaneck (Jun 19, 2010)

KenTheBugGuy said:


> I have a Regalis cage with 150 slings in it...will be interesting


That...just sounds...crazy.  lol  Keep us updated on that one Ken, I want to know how things go.


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## Crows Arachnids (Jun 19, 2010)

Protectyaaaneck said:


> Waaaaaait a second.  Are these the same p. smithi you are currently selling?  If they aren't the real thing than there are going to be some really p.o.'d customers....


That is insulting. Those came from the Germany import.


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## KenTheBugGuy (Jun 19, 2010)

*he does*



Crows Arachnids said:


> That is insulting. Those came from the Germany import.


He has P smithi I know that.  I won't enter the arguements just have to say that I do know that for sure.


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## Anastasia (Jun 19, 2010)

syndicate said:


> What size tank did you use?As long as they don't have to much space to establish there own territory I'd say they should do awesome!
> -Chris


Chris, did I get you right? 
As longer as they don't have much space to establish there own territory?
why wouldn't they? 150 gl that is huge space, how ever they will behave it would be very interesting


PS and what are you doing up @2:30 Am ;P


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## KenTheBugGuy (Jun 19, 2010)

syndicate said:


> What size tank did you use?As long as they don't have to much space to establish there own territory I'd say they should do awesome!
> -Chris


Its actually pretty large.  I was trying to get them to commune to the side of the cage with the stuff in it ...from the picture above my thread you can see what I am referring too.   The other half of the cage is just substrate.   they are clumping in little areas mostly though.  I plan on putting a live camera on it here when I get finished with a few things.


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## Protectyaaaneck (Jun 19, 2010)

Crows Arachnids said:


> That is insulting. Those came from the Germany import.


Just a question, not an insult.  Didn't know you had worked out a deal with Ken for smithi.  My bad.


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## sharpfang (Jun 19, 2010)

*Oh - that'll be Awesome Ken!*

A video to see, Who the Culprits that kill are...... 3-Strikes! You're Outta here!  I am gonna go w/ guess that 1/3 make it to 4".......Gonna be a *nice* attraction and experiment, GL.


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## Protectyaaaneck (Jun 19, 2010)

sharpfang said:


> Pic of Ken's new communal Tank, w/ Mayan-style theme:


Lol, do you take and upload all of Ken's pics for him or what?  

That setup is lookin pretty sick.


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## sharpfang (Jun 19, 2010)

*I could've Just Argued like some of Threads Posters....I thought this would be More productive*



Protectyaaaneck said:


> Lol, do you take and upload all of Ken's pics for him or what?
> 
> That setup is lookin pretty sick.


No  - I was just there the Other day....and Set-up was *new*, so I asked if I could snap Pics.....That is the ONLY 1, that did Not have a Flash distraction...

I can't wait to ask Ken in the Future: "So let's see the Crime Footage, I know @least one got killed Last month! Let's See! 4 Proof!"


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## Endagr8 (Jun 19, 2010)

My communal experience:

Two groups of three _N. chromatus_ in one ounce deli cups from first to third instar
Five _P. regalis_ from second instar to prepenultimate/penultimate (current); one non-cannibalism related loss
Two second instar _P. pederseni_ in a two ounce vial for a month
Two second instar _P. fasciata_ in a two ounce vial for a month
My half of an OBT breeding loan, which should be molting into second instar in a month or so, will be housed communally, so perhaps I'll revisit this thread in a few months.
_P. regalis_, sharing a roach:





I have two MF _P. regalis_, a MF _P. rufilata_, and two MF _H. incei_ that I'd like to breed to start a few communal projects.

_A. versicolor_ commune:
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/gallery/showimage.php?i=11343



smallara98 said:


> I heard somewhere that right when the eggs hatch, you can put different species together? Example: P. regalis x P. rufilata?





Protectyaaaneck said:


> What?     :?
> 
> Do you have a source or link?





Dirzain said:


> My thoughts exactly.


Yes. I have heard of and seen pictures of multi-specific _Poecilotheria spp._ communes. For example, here's at least three different species in what appears to be a communal setup: http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/gallery/showimage.php?i=8674

I'm racking my brain right now trying to remember where I saw a thread about it. I knew I should have subscribed. :wall:



Ms.X said:


> Thank you for the explanation.  I would definitely look into getting a positive identification on them.  I seem to remember reading (fairly recently, probably the end of last year/beginning of this year) about confusion with _P. smithi_ identification due to similarities with other _Poecilotheria_ sp.  This genus is not my strong suit, so I don't have any particular insight to contribute as far as ID is concerned.  Best of luck clearing that up.


I recall a _P. hanumavilasumica _ controversy, too. 
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=166850


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## KenTheBugGuy (Jun 19, 2010)

*obt*

will be interested in how the obts do!


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## KenTheBugGuy (Jun 19, 2010)

sharpfang said:


> I can't wait to ask Ken in the Future: "So let's see the Crime Footage, I know @least one got killed Last month! Let's See! 4 Proof!"


Oh and for the record it did not die its just missing 3 of 4 legs on one side.  That was my fault though not the tarantulas..it was in the lid when I opened it and did not see that  it was there.  Its really hard to manage 150 regalis


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## Crows Arachnids (Jun 19, 2010)

*P. Metallica pair. CURRENT PIC 2 HOURS AGO*

http://www.flickr.com/photos/51283749@N07/4714012462/

This pair has been together for approximately 2 and a half months. No issues whatsoever.


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## Crows Arachnids (Jun 19, 2010)

*Some pictures*

Jeez Louize, it took me a while to figure all this out but here are some pics. I will be posting many in the upcoming days. *Not here of course* Anyway, there are a couple pics of part of my breeding room, and a couple of my Metallica. 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/51283749@N07/4714018782/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/51283749@N07/4714019236/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/51283749@N07/4713379787/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/51283749@N07/4713379523/


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## KenTheBugGuy (Jun 19, 2010)

Crows Arachnids said:


> Jeez Louize, it took me a while to figure all this out but here are some pics. I will be posting many in the upcoming days. *Not here of course* Anyway, there are a couple pics of part of my breeding room, and a couple of my Metallica.
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/51283749@N07/4714018782/
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/51283749@N07/4714019236/
> ...


Nice pics...you keep a clean house


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## Crows Arachnids (Jun 19, 2010)

KenTheBugGuy said:


> Nice pics...you keep a clean house




Ken, it isn't easy, but I know I'm barking up the wrong tree here. Look what you guys got me doing lol, I have always avoided taking pictures and whatnot, just didn't have the time and now I'm an addict over night. You have got me over here at 3 in the morning fiddling with this doo hickey of a camera, look at these pics (first 3) they look awesome! I put them out on a black mat. The rest are just random pics, but all taken tonight!!!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/51283749@N07/4714048070/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/51283749@N07/4713409269/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/51283749@N07/4713408879/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/51283749@N07/4714049618/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/51283749@N07/4714048330/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/51283749@N07/4713410271/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/51283749@N07/4713392113/


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## AbraCadaver (Jun 19, 2010)

Holy s.. That versi looks AMAZING with the black backdrop!:drool:


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## Spyder 1.0 (Jun 19, 2010)

Pics of p. smithi? (non Germany import)


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## MichiganReptiles (Jun 19, 2010)

KenTheBugGuy said:


> Nice pics...you keep a clean house


I agree! Very nice.


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## MichiganReptiles (Jun 19, 2010)

Crows Arachnids said:


> Ken, it isn't easy, but I know I'm barking up the wrong tree here. Look what you guys got me doing lol, I have always avoided taking pictures and whatnot, just didn't have the time and now I'm an addict over night. You have got me over here at 3 in the morning fiddling with this doo hickey of a camera, look at these pics (first 3) they look awesome! I put them out on a black mat. The rest are just random pics, but all taken tonight!!!
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/51283749@N07/4714048070/
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/51283749@N07/4713409269/
> ...


Incredible pictures! Thanks for posting them.


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## dianedfisher (Jun 19, 2010)

Very nice photos, Jonathan.  Your set-up is very similar to my friend in CT, although you have fewer T's.  I look forward to seeing some nice shots of the P.smithi.  I co-hab Poecilotheria breeding pairs often, if I own the male. I've had several pairs stay together for several months before death and dismemberment or removal. My P.subfusca were introduced to one another 04/15 and are still together.  I removed a 2nd male from the other girl since someone wanted him after 6 weeks together. I had a pair of Tapinauchenius violaceus that lived together and I didn't pull him out until she laid her sac.  I thought this thread was more about raising slings in a communal environment.
Thanks for taking the time to post the photos.  Di


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## sharpfang (Jun 19, 2010)

KenTheBugGuy said:


> Nice pics...you keep a clean house





MichReptiles said:


> I agree! Very nice.


+2 Very Organized :clap:



AbraCadaver said:


> Holy s.. That versi looks AMAZING with the black backdrop!:drool:


I also Agree, the Chaco is Beautiful too! I have the same oscillating Fan in my room


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## JimM (Jun 19, 2010)

MichReptiles said:


> Incredible pictures! Thanks for posting them.


Yep, nice work.


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## PrimalTaunt (Jun 19, 2010)

I want to see some footage of somebody transferring a communal from one tank to another as I can't imagine the work that would take.  Especially if it was 150 pokies.


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## BrynWilliams (Jun 20, 2010)

i've read that T ockerti are often found communally due to them being forced together when flood waters rise? has anyone had a go with this species?

also, Joe, how's your OBT sling communal going?


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## xhexdx (Jun 20, 2010)

BrynWilliams said:


> also, Joe, how's your OBT sling communal going?


Eh, they're dwindling.  I need to separate the remaining spiders just so I can keep better track of them.

Here are vids from when they were tiny:

[YOUTUBE]ZSaN6zcVHOk[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]B2ClwksDurg[/YOUTUBE]

I have a couple pics of what one of the communals looks like now.  I need to get them uploaded.


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## jebbewocky (Jun 21, 2010)

Can OBT's be kept communally long-term, or does it "wear off" eventually?
I'm inclined to think the latter.


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## smallara98 (Jun 21, 2010)

Joe , when you are feeding the OBT slings , it is so fricken cute ! Lol . I love how they tackle the food .


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## TalonAWD (Jun 29, 2010)

Very interesting thread. I should try to keep my Maraca cabocla communially to see what happens


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