# hobo or grass spider?



## phoenixxavierre (Aug 27, 2010)

Curious what you all think this girl is. Would it help if the pic was larger?


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## cacoseraph (Aug 27, 2010)

looks more like a Tegenaria than Agelenopsis to me

it would be helpful to know where the spider came from


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## phoenixxavierre (Aug 27, 2010)

cacoseraph said:


> looks more like a Tegenaria than Agelenopsis to me
> 
> it would be helpful to know where the spider came from


There are a ton of these, and others that appear to be Agelenopsis around the house where I live in Jefferson, Oregon. I caught this particular girl trolling along the wall above the refrigerator. 

Most of the ones here I find around the ground under rocks or under the shingles at ground level. A ton of them here in the yard. Also all over the place are various free-running spiders, probably wolf spiders, orb-weavers, and tons of what I guess are different types of Agelenopsis, up in the eaves, in bushes, in the grass, etc.

So you're thinking hobo?


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## cacoseraph (Aug 27, 2010)

i just think it looks more Teg than Aggie


as to what species it is, it's pretty darn hard to tell Teg species from just "normal" pictures.  some will claim to have "the eye" but all the science stuff i read said to look at genital openings and/or cut 'em up to tell for sure



even if it is a hobo, T. agrestis, it's not a big deal.  they probably are not really all that toxic. if anyone can ever confirm species to my satisfaction i would be more than happy to induce them to bite me


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## phoenixxavierre (Aug 27, 2010)

I must admit at first I thought she had two dark stripes running down the cephalothorax, but upon closer inspection the "stripes" are actually indistinct with striations disturbing any solidity to the stripe markings. I can't see her sternum right now as she's eating a cricket. If this is a T. agrestis there are tons of them here. So you think the bite reports of T. agrestis are inaccurate?



cacoseraph said:


> i just think it looks more Teg than Aggie
> 
> 
> as to what species it is, it's pretty darn hard to tell Teg species from just "normal" pictures.  some will claim to have "the eye" but all the science stuff i read said to look at genital openings and/or cut 'em up to tell for sure
> ...


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## cacoseraph (Aug 27, 2010)

i think their bites are massively over reported, have other totally unrelated problems attributed to them, and are reported way outside of their range


they might have a bit of hurt to their bite, but flesh melters i just can not believe


of course i don't live in their range, so i don't have any experience with them... but i have caught and/or played with thousands of spiders.  and i've been bit by spiders like... less than ten times.  and never had a bad reaction to any of them.  so for ppl to just randomly get bit strains my credulity.  for someone to have bites all over them SCREAMS "not a spider!" to me.

it is really frustrating because unless someone actually sees the spider bite them AND recovers it for expert identification it really shouldn't be reported as a hobo bite... 

i learned a lesson from the brown recluse... it has bites reported and recorded ALL OVER THE COUNTRY!  hundreds and hundreds of bites hundreds and hundreds of miles from its fairly well understood range


oh! and i heard the best thing ever from an ER doc i was talking to!  it warmed my heart and restored my hope for the medical profession.   she said that anytime she sees the main complaint is "spider bite" on a patients chart she hands it off to an intern because 99% of the time it is just an infected boil or sore (she used medical lingo a bit above my working level.  i understood what she said but can't remember it =P ).  it's too bad she was married cuz i wanted to kiss her for that =P


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## phoenixxavierre (Aug 28, 2010)

Lol!

I'm in total agreement with you. 

I can remember catching spiders when I was only a couple years old (yes, strangely enough I have memories from when I was a baby), and distinctly remember (in Ohio) the grass spiders biting me while I held them by their cephalothorax and seeing their milky venom drip down my little fingers. Strangely enough, I don't recall it even hurting. Never been bit by any spiders, only tarantulas, and even then it was only by baby L. parahybanas, and it was only 2 out of 1500 from an eggsac that decided to bite me, and I didn't even feel it. Just felt the itchiness (and lightheaded sickness) and saw the bites after the fact. 

If these are T. agrestis there are a ton of them here and the homeowner and her family here have never been bitten. If I had enough deli cups or containers to collect them up I would. 

Everyone here calls these hobos recluses. 



cacoseraph said:


> i think their bites are massively over reported, have other totally unrelated problems attributed to them, and are reported way outside of their range
> 
> 
> they might have a bit of hurt to their bite, but flesh melters i just can not believe
> ...


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## TheTyro (Aug 28, 2010)

My opinion, it looks like Tegenaria. It doesn't strike me as T.agrestis, probably gigantea.


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## phoenixxavierre (Aug 28, 2010)

TheTyro said:


> My opinion, it looks like Tegenaria. It doesn't strike me as T.agrestis, probably gigantea.


Looks like the pics of gigantea I've seen on the net.


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## phoenixxavierre (Dec 19, 2010)

*an update*

Well, my female T. gigantea, or some such, has laid three egg-sacs, one of which just hatched. So now I'm rolling in T. gigantea. I moved the vial I was keeping her in into a larger container to allow her and her spiderlings more room.


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## Silberrücken (Dec 19, 2010)

A Hobo (Tegenaria agrestis) has no banding on the legs.


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## davisfam (Dec 19, 2010)

First of all, keep in mind that without a microscope, you may not be able to identify T.agrestis.. Most non-arachnologists attempt using coloration as an identifying feature although this can be one of the least reliable characteristics due to the fact that Hobo spiders have a great variation among other specimens within a species and similar species tend to overlap in appearance to the Hobo spider. You will need to be more discriminating when dealing with Hobo spiders because identification is not an easy task. 

-If you do have a microscope or a magnifying glass, there are a few ways of determining between the T. duellica and T. agrestis:
1. If your spider has 3 or 4 pairs of light spots on the lateral portions of the sternum, then it is NOT a Hobo spider. Hobo spiders have a light stripe running down the middle of the sternum. However, be careful because some specimens of the Giant House spider and Barn Funnel-Weaving spiders have spots that can be VERY faint which is why there is the common mix-up between the two species.
2. If your spider has two very distinct longitudinal dark stripes on the top side of the cephalothorax, then it’s NOT a Hobo spider. Hobo spiders have indistinct or diffuse patterns.
3. If your spider has dark rings around the legs, then it’s NOT a Hobo spider. Hobo spiders have uniformly colored legs. The most common spiders with rings around their legs are the Barn Funnel-Weaving spider.
4. Are your spider’s legs and cephalothorax shiny and dark-orange in color? And lacking fine hairs? If so, it’s NOT a Hobo spider. Callobius severus is very common and often submitted as a potential Hobo spider due to the abdomen pattern.
5. Is the extreme fleshy tip of the palp (if a male) long, thin, and finger-like? If so, it’s NOT a Hobo spider. The tip of the palp belonging to a Hobo spider is more blunt.

Bottom line, the only sure way to identify a spider as a Hobo spider is to compare the spider’s reproductive structures that define it as a species. For an advanced beginner, I would compare the male and female reproductive structures to other documented pictures of this species found on the internet or other readings, it’s the only way to really reliably achieve an ID.

I have heard the behaviors are also quite different between the two species. For instance, the T. duellica is docile for the most part while the Hobo spider is much more defensive and can contain a fearless attitude. 

Here's a document that should be helpful; my above statement is pretty much just summarizing this document but it does contain pictures and more information soo, this way no more being curious about your new Mama's ID, LOL. GOOD LUCK with the slings and congrats! 

*Document:* http://pep.wsu.edu/pdf/pls116_1.pdf


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## phoenixxavierre (Dec 19, 2010)

Thank you, Davisfam!

I have read most of the info I could find on differentiating, and have looked at very similar species, some grass spiders, which look very similar, and have still not accurately IDed her, however, I will give it another shot. A little difficult with her because she is flighty and quick. As are the babies!


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## phoenixxavierre (Apr 27, 2011)

Well, my big lady passed on last night. I looked at her body and she seemed to have some sort of an injury on the side of her where her abdomen meets the cephalothorax, though I can't tell if it's an injury or some form of parasite that caused the damage. 

She laid a huge number of eggs (probably half a dozen in a very short period of time, probably producing one or two a month), and I simply didn't have the time or means to separate them all, so I left them with momma and allowed the older siblings to feed on the younger siblings. So now I have around a dozen fat babies who have molted a couple times (these I've separated) and may have some unhatched eggs, I'm not sure. She would go to great lengths to camouflage the egg-sacs with peat. I am thinking these are Tegenaria duellica. At this point I can try to look closely at the spider if my eyes weren't going to crap. But I will try nonetheless. I also have some pics I can post, but need to re-size them first. The babies are quite handle-able and don't seem to have much of a problem crawling on me. 

Whatever these species are, they're really awesome, avid eaters, very, very webby. Really awesome spiders!


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## Bugs In Cyberspace (Apr 28, 2011)

I can collect T. duellica but they possibly outcompete the T. agrestis we also have around here in much lower numbers. The two spiders look very similiar, but I've seen thousands of specimens and feel pretty confident in noting the differences between the two I see, despite all the "rules" for correctly identifying them. Mature specimens is the critical requirement, assuming I have any idea what I'm talking about. Size is the main difference, though patterning in the abdomen seems to correlate. 

What I'm not reading as I skim these threads is the size of the spider originally mentioned. Female T. duellica (gigantea) have legspans approaching and sometimes exceeding 3 inches at maturity. Our "grass spiders" are tiny compared to these.

The last scientific paper I read on this subject suggested that the presence or absence of transparent/whitish spots in the regions where the legs meet the underside of the body was the only method for visually keying them out. Old information is often replaced with better information, which is often replaced with the old information again.

Oregonian for three more months...

Peter


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