# Brown Recluse?



## Noshownate (Sep 25, 2009)

I Sure am hoping not.
I live in sw florida so this is in theyre territory:wall: 

Started to ice





heres a close up





i think i must have been bit around 8 or 10 hours ago woke up this morning and noticed it.
another angle to see size.





i really hope this isnt a brown recluse bite, i think i will know more in the next 24 hours. dont want to go to doctors yet because i've read that they dont have the technology yet to determine what the bite is unless you have the spider, fat chance of that happenin when i dont even know when or were it happened. ice ,keep elevated above heart, no strenuous activity, to keep from spreading by gravity, lucky i got bit in a not very fatty area so if it eats my flesh wont have to much to eat. any ideas or help will help.:wall:


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## jcornish86 (Sep 25, 2009)

We have alot up here in Seattle also, that forsure looks like  Brown Recluse bite. Get to the doctor asap, as there venom can result in mortification of tissue (i.e Flesh rott). look for it to start apearing to almost be cyst like, These are very bad bites and i will keep my fingers crossed for you that its somthing else.


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## Noshownate (Sep 25, 2009)

oohh snap i really hope not
im not going to go to the doctor tonight in hopes it might get better or not be what i think it might be.(also expensive)
but gonna check in morning if gets worse then doctor.
thnx jcorn
if anyone knows any good home remedies let me know.:wall:


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## traxfish (Sep 25, 2009)

I see 3 main problems with assuming this is a brown recluse bite.

Recluses are NOT known to be in SW Florida. It's outside of their natural range.  
This is their reported range:
http://bugguide.net/node/view/33494

I have heard that there are isolated populations in central Florida, near Orlando, however, but I have not seen that verified.

Recluses are shy and don't go around biting people.  I do know of a case where a family pulled close to 2,000 recluses in their home in one day that they have been living with for years, and no one in the family has ever been bitten.  I personally know of someone who finds them in his house by the hundreds in late summer and has never been bitten either.  He gave me one of them and they are certainly brown recluses.  Even if you did have one recluse brought into your home from cargo, it is highly unlikely to bite you.

Just going from that picture, that could be an infected mosquito bite, a staph infection, a fungus infection, lyme disease, an ulcer, herpes, a chemical burn, a form of skin cancer, a simple bruise, and/or many other fun diseases or infections that leave skin damage.  If you didn't catch the culprit in the act, don't assume it is a spider bite.

Sorry to be blunt or rude, but I see many, many people assume that strange marks on them are spider bites when it really doesn't make sense.


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## Talkenlate04 (Sep 25, 2009)

jcornish86 said:


> We have alot up here in Seattle also, that forsure looks like  Brown Recluse bite. Get to the doctor asap, as there venom can result in mortification of tissue (i.e Flesh rott). look for it to start apearing to almost be cyst like, These are very bad bites and i will keep my fingers crossed for you that its somthing else.


There are no brown recluses in Seattle. Who ever is telling you that is smoking crack. There are other species of spider in our area that can cause similar reactions like a recluse, but there are no recluses in our area. The main reason so many “recluse” bite reports pop up everywhere is because medical staff don’t have any real training on identifying differences in reactions from one species to another, but every medical individual knows of the brown recluse so that is their fall back cause.
One thing is for sure though, the cold wet 70"+ of rain weather we have here is not the place to go looking for brown recluses.


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## Noshownate (Sep 25, 2009)

Thanx for the help traxfish.
im gonna go with herpes

Cause is still unknown. I don't like to just go ahead and rule things out,
sometimes the impossible is the truth
I have never had a skin irritaion like this before. a little nervous just looking for help. 
Why do people think these spiders will just stay in this confined area on a map?
I agree doctors prob use br recluse as a scape goat to a question they don't know. 
I was really hoping someone would say its not a recluse bite,(by the looks and symptoms) not simply that they just aren't in this area. maybe not a brown recluse but a different kind?
People actually catching these tiny spiders in the act then containing them seems like almost finding a needle in a hay stack.


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## Talkenlate04 (Sep 25, 2009)

They don't stay confined. But they rarely move to new local and explode into giant populations that bite tons of people. You have plenty of fun critters in Fl that could have done that to you. Its the jungle down there! I wish 1/2 of what you had roamed around my house.  
(not biting me though)


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## Noshownate (Sep 25, 2009)

Talkenlate04 said:


> They don't stay confined. But they rarely move to new local and explode into giant populations that bite tons of people. You have plenty of fun critters in Fl that could have done that to you. Its the jungle down there! I wish 1/2 of what you had roamed around my house.
> (not biting me though)


 
 i live in a tropical zone too soo could be anything.
true is silly to assume its a spider.
my girlfriend said i should cirlce it so to see if gets bigger is this a good idea?


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## Talkenlate04 (Sep 25, 2009)

Yes that is a good way to monitor the bite site. If it continues to expand greatly then I would seek medical care.

At this point that wound looks like any run of the mill tick/flea/random fly/ random spider bite. I don't think there is any need to wear a bandana over it ether.


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## Noshownate (Sep 25, 2009)

there was ice under the bandana and it was the only bandage i have. was i wearing the wrong colors


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## loxoscelesfear (Sep 25, 2009)

Without the culprit, you will likely never know the identity or source of that wound.  Brown recluse are not common in Florida, their natural range barely hits northwestern Florida.  Brown recluse are not in the northwestern US or Seattle area.  Brown recluse are found in the southcentral states, as far north as Ohio and west to Nebraska.  Anything is possible, however, and animals know no political boundaries, but I doubt that you have a brown recluse bite.


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## Noshownate (Sep 26, 2009)

thanx all, zone has not increased in size. just worked all day on the foot, same so hoping was a small amount of venom or herpes  i'm still monitoring though. thnx again all for info.

loxo is that the uss enterprise? new movie is sick huh?


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## JPD (Sep 26, 2009)

Talkenlate04 said:


> There are no brown recluses in Seattle. Who ever is telling you that is smoking crack. There are other species of spider in our area that can cause similar reactions like a recluse, but there are no recluses in our area. The main reason so many “recluse” bite reports pop up everywhere is because medical staff don’t have any real training on identifying differences in reactions from one species to another, but every medical individual knows of the brown recluse so that is their fall back cause.
> One thing is for sure though, the cold wet 70"+ of rain weather we have here is not the place to go looking for brown recluses.


Ditto Ditto and Ditto


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## jcornish86 (Sep 26, 2009)

LOL WOW who ever told you there are not recluse in washington seattle area is a complete moron. Dont try to insult me via these forums, i have seen plenty of recluse bites. This is the most active time for people to be bit, As they try and enter peoples houses/garages to get some warmth. One of the most retarded things i have ever heard some one say on these forums.

 I had a best freind get bit last year, left a 2inch crater in his wrist, he almost lost his thumb.
But hey what the hell do i know.... gl with your bite. But the above guy is right that could be any from of bite/irratation.


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## What (Sep 26, 2009)

jcornish86 said:


> I had a best freind get bit last year, left a 2inch crater in his wrist, he almost lost his thumb.
> But hey what the hell do i know.... gl with your bite. But the above guy is right that could be any from of bite/irratation.


It was probably MRSA or something similar, not a recluse. There is a tiny chance that it was one that was brought in packaging from the midwest, but, the chances of that are *really* slim.


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## jcornish86 (Sep 26, 2009)

Alot of people here are bit by hobo spiders, witch have a similar effect as a recluse. This was indefinatly a recluse bite. Anyways this is a little off topic now. I hope everything works out for you Nosh.


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## What (Sep 26, 2009)

This just in, "hobo" spider bites dont cause dermonecrosis: http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/PESTNOTES/pn7488.html#MEDICAL


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## arachnorama (Sep 26, 2009)

OUCH.

That does look a little like a recluse bite.


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## Talkenlate04 (Sep 26, 2009)

What said:


> This just in, "hobo" spider bites dont cause dermonecrosis: http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/PESTNOTES/pn7488.html#MEDICAL


Did you read that article you linked?


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## What (Sep 26, 2009)

Talkenlate04 said:


> Did you read that article you linked?


Yes.(If you ignore the "poisonous" misuse in the start... it is fine.)



			
				http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/PESTNOTES/pn7488.html#MEDICAL said:
			
		

> In its native European habitat, the hobo spider venom is *not considered poisonous to humans*. A research study (still unpublished) was undertaken to compare hobo spider venom from both Pacific Northwest and European hobo spider populations. The venom from both populations was injected into the same strain of rabbits used in the initial research that implicated hobo spiders as potentially poisonous to humans. Neither venom in the study produced necrotic wounds in the rabbits.
> 
> Additionally, an editorial in the Annals of Emergency Medicine in 2004 examined the medical literature on hobo spider bites and found that there is only *one case of a verified bite by a hobo spider that resulted in a necrotic skin lesion* and this was in a person who had a *pre-existing medical condition that also leads to necrotic skin lesions.* Most of the basis for blaming the hobo spider is based on *extrapolation from venom experiments* with rabbits. As important as these experiments are, one must keep in mind that there are differences in animal response to spider venoms.


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## codykrr (Sep 26, 2009)

mn herein missouri we have brown recluses in damn near every home...and yet still very few people get bit by acuall BR.   like stated BR bites are anything a doc cant explain..and with no actual specimen theres no proof..i lived in an apartment a few years ago, and i litterally found hundreds of them in a year...even had one crawling on my neck one night.  they really are recluses..   

i will say though if that was a true BR bite...you would already be in the hospital..it will be a lil red bump...that turns into a "target" like spot...then it starts rotting away your flesh..ive seen it go from red dot to huge masses of skin literally falling off in a matter of 4 to 6 days.

also ryan..i wouldnt nessicerily say there are no BR's in washington or seatle...as they have been imported by trucking companies to california, alabama, florida, arizona...i wouldnt doubt other states havent got them to. im not saying they are thre...but i wouldnt be so quick to rule out the possibility. imho


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## jcornish86 (Sep 26, 2009)

codykrr said:


> mn herein missouri we have brown recluses in damn near every home...and yet still very few people get bit by acuall BR.   like stated BR bites are anything a doc cant explain..and with no actual specimen theres no proof..i lived in an apartment a few years ago, and i litterally found hundreds of them in a year...even had one crawling on my neck one night.  they really are recluses..
> 
> i will say though if that was a true BR bite...you would already be in the hospital..it will be a lil red bump...that turns into a "target" like spot...then it starts rotting away your flesh..ive seen it go from red dot to huge masses of skin literally falling off in a matter of 4 to 6 days.
> 
> also ryan..i wouldnt nessicerily say there are no BR's in washington or seatle...as they have been imported by trucking companies to california, alabama, florida, arizona...i wouldnt doubt other states havent got them to. im not saying they are thre...but i wouldnt be so quick to rule out the possibility. imho


Aye it will start to look like a blister and just erupt. Also i faild to mention the friend that did get bit worked in a produce department. He said he did not know when he got bit, as he did not notice it until he was in the shower the next morning. He called me up and asked if i could take him to the emergency room. His hand/wrist had nearly swollen 3x its normal size and he had intense pain just rotaiting it.


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## Venom (Sep 26, 2009)

What said:


> Yes.(If you ignore the "poisonous" misuse in the start... it is fine.)


Yes, but What, you must finish that quoted passage: 



> As important as these experiments are, one must keep in mind that there are differences in animal response to spider venoms. As an example, brown recluse spider venom causes skin lesions in humans, rabbits, and guinea pigs, but not mice or rats; Australian funnel web spiders are highly toxic to primates but not other mammals. Therefore, until a study is done with a series of verified bites of hobo spiders in humans resulting in skin lesions, it is more sensible to question the potential of hobo spider to cause skin lesions rather than to make the mistake of emphatically stating that it is a dangerous spider. The definitive proof is still lacking.


The jury is still out. We can't say "hobo's don't cause necrotic sores," because we don't *know* that yet.

And as far as Europeans not having problems with this species, the reason is because of competition with T. gigantea, which out competes T. agrestis in domestic environments, forcing the hobo spiders to reside in very rural environments. The situation is the Pacific Northwest is different, as T. gigantea is not as well established there ( though the population is expanding, so things may change ).


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## codykrr (Sep 26, 2009)

ok...this is a true brown recluse bite...like i said if you had been bitten you would already be in he hospital  heres a link to show the progression(warning graphic material)

http://www.surviveoutdoors.com/emergency/spiderbites_recluse.asp


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## jcornish86 (Sep 26, 2009)

codykrr said:


> ok...this is a true brown recluse bite...like i said if you had been bitten you would already be in he hospital  heres a link to show the progression(warning graphic material)
> 
> http://www.surviveoutdoors.com/emergency/spiderbites_recluse.asp


Who wants some Hamburger?


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## vvx (Sep 27, 2009)

jcornish86 said:


> LOL WOW who ever told you there are not recluse in washington seattle area is a complete moron.


No, he's right. There are no brown recluse in the Seattle area. If what you have seen were spider bites the most likely culprit would be Tegeneria agrestis, as it's probably the most potent spider in the area. Of course many many natives refer to it as "brown recluse" even though it's completely different. It's also important to note that Tegeneria domestica and Tegeneria gigantea are more common than Tegeneria agrestis, and it's dang near impossible to tell the difference. I wouldn't be convinced of a positive ID without the spider having been examined by microscope by a scientist with experience identifying spiders.

But it's also important to note that "spider bite" is the standard diagnosis for any bump/bite of unknown origin. In common usage I assume it means exactly that, "I got bit by something and have no idea what it was."


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## What (Sep 27, 2009)

Venom said:


> The jury is still out. We can't say "hobo's don't cause necrotic sores," because we don't *know* that yet.


I would take the fact that there are no verified necrotic wounds except in one person with a pre-existing condition to be very significant... But yes, we do not *know* it, it is just extremely unlikely that they are actually dangerous at all.


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## loxoscelesfear (Sep 27, 2009)

traxfish said:


> I see 3 main problems with assuming this is a brown recluse bite.
> 
> Recluses are NOT known to be in SW Florida. It's outside of their natural range.
> This is their reported range:
> ...


yep.  the 2500 recluse in a Kansas home article is in the Journal of medical entomology.  



Noshownate said:


> thanx all, zone has not increased in size. just worked all day on the foot, same so hoping was a small amount of venom or herpes  i'm still monitoring though. thnx again all for info.
> 
> loxo is that the uss enterprise? new movie is sick huh?


Live long and prosper .


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## Ether Imp (Sep 27, 2009)

> Just going from that picture, that could be an infected mosquito bite, a staph infection, a fungus infection, lyme disease, an ulcer, herpes, a chemical burn, a form of skin cancer, a simple bruise, and/or many other fun diseases or infections that leave skin damage. If you didn't catch the culprit in the act, don't assume it is a spider bite.


This. Quoted for truth.

Looks like a Mesquito bite to me. I think if you were tagged by a recluse you would be feeling a variety of other effects, including the necrosis.


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## fantasticp (Sep 27, 2009)

+1 to no recluses in Seattle.

.....also trim your toenails please.
I think you'll be fine if it hasn't gotten worse by now.


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## Drachenjager (Sep 27, 2009)

it always strikes me as funny that the treatment for a "brown recluse bite" is the same as for a staff infection lol. 
Those pics of the alleged brown recluse bite look just like my son's finger did when he got a staff infection . And guys, antibiotics will not remedy spider venom. The rotting away of flesh is a microbial problem not a venom problem. this is why antibiotics help. I know people who have been bitten and KNOW it was a brown recluse because they saw it bite them and all they get is a little pimple looking thing. NOW if you smash the things face into your skin and get all the bits and pieces of spider in it you just may wind up with a nasty infection to go along with the venom ... Doctors know less than most amateur hobbyists about spiders so i ignore them when they say you got bit by a brown recluse ...lol


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## tom (Sep 27, 2009)

*loxosceles bite*

Hmm. seems a dermatologist would be able to quickly diagnose this afflicted area . Unfortunately, No ELISA test will confirm Loxosceles venom in a bite, altthough some work is being done on this area. I have kept Loxosceles for several years now including laeta ,reclusa ,rufescens with no bites occuring.
Better safe than sorry,get to doctor quickly.Cheers, Tom


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## buthus (Sep 27, 2009)

_Round and round
What comes around goes around_
 


Recluse bite?  Small chance in h*ll ...but even if it is, very small chance of it becoming a problem.  
Recluse in Fl?  probably, but as of now there has been no established populations confirmed.  (??)
Recluse or kin in Seattle?  Nope.  They could do ok there though...imo.  But, as of now, there have been 0 confirmed.  
Hobo spiders causing problematic wounds?  The evidence has been VERY questionable.  IMHO..Bad medical science to create a monster to blame for little holes in skin in an area of the country that doesnt have the more notorious monster blamed for little holes in skin.    

The Brown Recluse story is like watching Fox n'friends in the morn ...innuendos, fear and blame... repeat.


!STOP! posting your mysterious red marks and scary little wounds and rotting horse legs and links to tabloid images of unconfirmed horrors here on this *SPIDER* forum.  There ARE medical forums for that.


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## mandipants (Sep 27, 2009)

Noshownate said:


> there was ice under the bandana and it was the only bandage i have. was i wearing the wrong colors


I vote staph infection, or other skin infection.  Staph infections are almost always thought to be a spider bite at first (i think because people think a bacterial infection means you are personally gross/unclean, which is NOT true)  Staph is VERY wide spread, particularly in hot humid climates (Flordia)  I know all this because I'm a carrier (Yay me!)  

Based on the severity of the possible infection, and the UNLIKELYHOOD of it actually being a bite DO NOT USE ICE!!!  You should be using a hot compress, like a wet washcloth heated up in the microwave.  This will draw any possible infection to the surface, and possibly save you a trip to the doctor.  

Hope this helps.


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## mandipants (Sep 27, 2009)

What said:


> It was probably MRSA or something similar, not a recluse. There is a tiny chance that it was one that was brought in packaging from the midwest, but, the chances of that are *really* slim.


MRSA= super nasty and resistant staph (not literally, but in lay-terms).  Agreed.


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## bigdog999 (Sep 27, 2009)

My cousin had a spot that developed under his arm, swelled up to the size of a golfball and was seeping pus.  He thought it was a bite.  New Hampshire area.  Turned out to be MRSA.  That was quite a problem for a few weeks.  He's the type that doesn't like to go to doctors.  Remind you of anyone.


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## Noshownate (Sep 28, 2009)

fantasticp said:


> .....also trim your toenails please.


 i know sorry they look longer from that angle im nasty not thats nasty


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## Noshownate (Sep 28, 2009)

buthus said:


> _
> 
> !STOP! posting your mysterious red marks and scary little wounds and rotting horse legs and links to tabloid images of unconfirmed horrors here on this *SPIDER* forum.  There ARE medical forums for that._


_

sorry butthuss having a necrotic spider bite is a pretty scary thing, i dont think anyone would disagree. I did have the symptoms of a  serious bite during the first hours (target bullseyee n all). Sorry if i would rather seek help from spider experts rather than a doctor who is gonna say hey take this medicine and give me money then tell me its a br recluse, when its not. again i apologize for going to a spider forum for spider information.:?_


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## buthus (Sep 28, 2009)

Noshownate said:


> sorry butthuss


 :5: 


Spider forum for spidie info?  yep this may be THE place to post yer questions  ...gotta spider?


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## Mister Internet (Sep 28, 2009)

Noshownate said:


> sorry butthuss having a necrotic spider bite is a pretty scary thing, i dont think anyone would disagree. I did have the symptoms of a  serious bite during the first hours (target bullseyee n all). Sorry if i would rather seek help from spider experts rather than a doctor who is gonna say hey take this medicine and give me money then tell me its a br recluse, when its not. again i apologize for going to a spider forum for spider information.:?


Hey man,

You'll get plenty of spider INFORMATION here, it's one of the best places on the Internet to do so... but as far as diagnosing a very unremarkable wound from really bad pictures for a spider that isn't even supposed to exist where you live... well, I wouldn't count on that. 

Seriously though, there are maybe 5 people here that are even qualified to give a medical diagnosis of dermatological or systemic symptoms, and none of them would even dream of doing it based on those pictures... if things get worse, get yourself to an emergency room, is all ANYONE should be telling you over the Internet.  Best of luck!


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## Ether Imp (Sep 29, 2009)

Mister Internet said:


> Hey man,
> 
> You'll get plenty of spider INFORMATION here, it's one of the best places on the Internet to do so... but as far as diagnosing a very unremarkable wound from really bad pictures for a spider that isn't even supposed to exist where you live... well, I wouldn't count on that.
> 
> Seriously though, there are maybe 5 people here that are even qualified to give a medical diagnosis of dermatological or systemic symptoms, and none of them would even dream of doing it based on those pictures... if things get worse, get yourself to an emergency room, is all ANYONE should be telling you over the Internet.  Best of luck!


+1

I find I agree a lot more with MrI OUTSIDE of political discussions!


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## Noshownate (Sep 29, 2009)

Thank you all for help seriously? You guys helped me sleep alot better during the first 24.The wound has been diminishing ever since. Sorry if i angered some people somehow? Anyways all is good and well, and Thank you for all ya'll's spidey knowledge.


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## mitchnast (Sep 29, 2009)

I get so sick of all these sudden experts on brown recluses.  I live in interior BC and people are ALWAYS saying we have BRs.  Like they learned the name and suddenly everyone KNOWS we have them, or had been bitten or knows someone who has, medically confimed and everything....
Of course I tell people the reality of it.
I actually had a guy at work tell me "well I guess you just don't know as much about spiders as you think you do" in rebuttal to me suggesting he had been misinformed by receiving a common misconception.
So I started slinging the latin. Citing the differences and simmilarities between loxoscelism and tegenarism, ranges, and finally, the difference between sceintifically verifiable information and anecdotal sensationalism.
I also suggested we call an Arachnologist.
He did not want to look into the possibility that he was wrong, but still was fine suggesting my frame of reference was lacking based solely on the fact it conflicted with his.  And that was it, no logic, no facts to support, just the indirect proclaimation that sceintific fact is a matter of an uninformed individuals perceived public oppinion.

I get this all the time from so many people, It's at the point now that so many people follow this fallacy, It has become a matter of "Fact".  Lore-based science.
everyone beleives it, without a shred of understanding, so it must be true.
People get mad when you suggest their friend or relitive was wrong about something that shaped their understanding of the world.

It all falls down to the simple Johnathan Swift adage:
“It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into”.


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## Webbly (Sep 29, 2009)

People read stories like this: http://archive.mailtribune.com/archive/2000/april/041400n2.htm
 and tell everyone they know. It doesn't take long for the part about it being a single spider stowed away in a radioto be omitted and replaced with paranoia that they're moving farther north and taking over like killer bees.

Here is another article about identifying brown recluses and their bites: http://dermatology.cdlib.org/DOJvol5num2/special/recluse.html

P.S. That mark on your leg is definitely a scorpion sting.


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## Noshownate (Sep 30, 2009)

mitchnast said:


> People get mad when you suggest their friend or relitive was wrong about something that shaped their understanding of the world.
> 
> It all falls down to the simple Johnathan Swift adage:
> “It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into”.


true                true


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## loxoscelesfear (Oct 1, 2009)

I don't think it's funny, you laughing.  You see my brown recluse gets the strange idea that you're laughing at him (her).  Now, if you were to apologize ...


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## Spider-Spazz (Oct 1, 2009)

traxfish said:


> I see 3 main problems with assuming this is a brown recluse bite.
> 
> Recluses are NOT known to be in SW Florida. It's outside of their natural range.
> This is their reported range:
> http://bugguide.net/node/view/33494


aw man!
newnan would be RIGHT on the inside edge of that range ):
my mom was bit by a recluse, and it wasn't pretty at all.


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## Noshownate (Oct 2, 2009)

loxo you actually have a pet br recluse. tell him im sorry for assuming he did it. u didnt ship him to florida to get me did you. i woke up this morning with three little bites on my thigh. my brain went to oh sheet brown recluse then i remember no br recluses here. im assuming a flea bite or herpes but three right next to each other i was gonnapost it but i'd prob get death threats. I'm not seeing the violin shape on that recluse's back do they all have the violin shape or is that just just the brown ones?


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## What (Oct 2, 2009)

Noshownate said:


> i woke up this morning with three little bites on my thigh.... I'm not seeing the violin shape on that recluse's back do they all have the violin shape or is that just just the brown ones?


The bites are probably fly/mosquito bites and you moved while it was feeding so it had to reposition. 

As for the "violin shape" the spider in the photo has it, just due to the angle it can be hard to discern. From what I know all the species of Loxosceles have that basic pattern, but on some species it is *very* faint.


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## loxoscelesfear (Oct 2, 2009)

The spider in the pic is _Loxosceles_ , not a pet in the standard sense, but will live out it's days in a jar eating crickets. I cannot say w/ confidence that it is _reclusa_ because the building it came from has _L. rufescens_ (an introduced species).  The other place I collect _Loxosceles _is only a few miles down the road and that population is _reclusa_.  How do I know this you may ask? Well, I sent a handful of spiders to an araneologist and it turned out I had 2 species. I have seen 3 species of recluse in hand- _rufescens, reclusa_, and _devia_- and other than minor details that require the microscope, all have the violin pattern and look virtually the same.


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## buthus (Oct 3, 2009)

Noshownate said:


> loxo you actually have a pet br recluse. tell him im sorry for assuming he did it. u didnt ship him to florida to get me did you. i woke up this morning with three little bites on my thigh. my brain went to oh sheet brown recluse then i remember no br recluses here. im assuming a flea bite or herpes but three right next to each other i was gonnapost it but i'd prob get death threats. I'm not seeing the violin shape on that recluse's back do they all have the violin shape or is that just just the brown ones?


bed bugs...er...or fleas

_i was gonnapost it but i'd prob get death threats._ grow up.


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## spideyjg (Oct 3, 2009)

Noshownate said:


> i woke up this morning with three little bites on my thigh.  but three right next to each other i was gonnapost it but i'd prob get death threats.


I spend lots of time on a bedbug forum as a veteran BB warrior. Had them and over the course of 2 months won the war. 

Many, many a BB victim describe a multibite pattern. BBs are getting to pandemic levels in some areas. It is estimated in the next 10 years every home will either have or will have had BBs. 

The list of stuff that can cause skin reactions is insane and spiders are so far down the map it is not even a consideration. For example many folks react to the cast skins of carpet beetle larvae due to the hairs. Urticating hairs from caterpillars can still irritate even once the creature has died. Mosquitoes, biting flies, midges, and mites are way up on the actual biters list for the folks that turn out to not have BBs.

Here is a video from an entomologist and bed bug expert regarding "spider bites"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St7Y97IkFFM

Study up on BBs and how to hunt for them. You may have a far worse problem under your nose.

Jim


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## Noshownate (Oct 6, 2009)

good call spideyjg i always thought bed bugs were kinda of a joke as far as parents saying dont let the bed bugs bites. Definately bit by these three bites right in a row. buthus get a sense of humor. thanx jim again will research this bb. wow i have learned alot about spiders just by this single thread and that having a spider bite me is very low compared to how many other things it could be appreciate all the help. thanx arachnoboard!
I am going to be keeping my eye out on some wild florida spiders if i'm succesfull i will post them here for identififcation and if anyone wants them i will send. thanx


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## cacoseraph (Oct 6, 2009)

the only person i am *sure* has a sense of humor on this thread *is* buthus =P





i think cuz ppl can actually see spiders in their house they are easy to blame for strange marks.  the irony is their is no pay off for randomly biting you, for spiders.  *other* bugs *need* your blood and/or tissues for their life cycle... but does that influence popular culture thought? apparently not =P


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## Noshownate (Oct 7, 2009)

was just putting away some laundry this afternoon was on the floor for the night before. Threw the clothes on the bed and a little spider came out from within the clothes. very small half the size of a grain of rice. I managed to contain the spider in a ziplock bag. was kinda in a hurry never tried to trap a wild spider before. I would like to send this to someone if they could identifiy it, I think it would be cool to know what is crawling in my clothes. I hope it doesnt have to be alive to correctly identifiy. To probabily properly identifiy this spider you might need a microscope of some sort. Or maybe till the spider gets bigger. Whats a good way to store a possibly harmful tiny spider? I wanted to catch a wild one but not this quick


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## JPD (Oct 7, 2009)

jcornish86 said:


> LOL WOW who ever told you there are not recluse in washington seattle area is a complete moron. Dont try to insult me via these forums, i have seen plenty of recluse bites. This is the most active time for people to be bit, As they try and enter peoples houses/garages to get some warmth. One of the most retarded things i have ever heard some one say on these forums.
> 
> I had a best freind get bit last year, left a 2inch crater in his wrist, he almost lost his thumb.
> But hey what the hell do i know.... gl with your bite. But the above guy is right that could be any from of bite/irratation.


So of the bites that you have seen, you have recovered and positively identified the spider as L.reclusa or that it was actually a spider bite?  You seem very certain that there are L.reclusa here so my charge to you....prove it.  Send me one, two, five, whatever you can get.  PM me and I will give you my address. In their native haunts they are quite prolific so you should have no problem finding a dozen or so.
Sorry, you may think the aforementioned post about no recluses in Washington is "retarded" but it is spot-on.


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## jsloan (Oct 7, 2009)

Noshownate said:


> Whats a good way to store a possibly harmful tiny spider?


In an airtight vial, in 70% alcohol.  I'd use isopropyl alcohol, also called isopropanol (rubbing alcohol), if I were you.  You can get it at a drugstore.  Ethanol is actually better, but the ethanol you buy in stores usually has added ingredients to make it undrinkable, and those ingredients can sometimes damage a specimen.


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## spideyjg (Oct 7, 2009)

What color is it?

Get a digital camera, put a magnifying glass up to the lens of it, and get a pic of the creature.

If the pic is good I can tell you in a blink if it is a bed bug or not.

Whatever it may be, if the cause of your problem, an exterminator will need it to treat your house. Don't mail it off until we see a picture.

BTW, pointing out the obvious here, count the legs, arachnids, spiders ticks, or mites, have 8 and insects have 6.

Jim


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## Miami Cracker (Oct 7, 2009)

traxfish said:


> I see 3 main problems with assuming this is a brown recluse bite.
> 
> Recluses are NOT known to be in SW Florida. It's outside of their natural range.
> This is their reported range:
> ...


First things FIRST-------

YOU NEED TO STOP SPEAKING ABOUT THINGS YOU HAVE NO CLUE OF.

I live in SW florida (Lehigh)and i work in a Prison (in Immokalee) and I HAVE SEEN FIRST HAND 
alot of Brown Recluse spiders in my prison and i have had to take a few inmates to the hospital because of Brown Recluse bites (catching the spider for identification purposes) My best friend was bitten by one on the base of his penis and stayed in the ICU for a week and had a shunt placed in his chest for antibiotics for the next month. how do we know that was a Brown Recluse you say???? we were living in Miami and we have this thing called VENOM ONE. they are the Paramedics and Doctors that are called when anybody in the state is envenomated by almost anything venomous. and when the doctors seen the flesh rotting away from the envenomation site they ordered tests and found out that it was a BROWN RECLUSE SPIDER.
he didnt "catch the culprit in the act" but they do have tests...in a hospital
so dont tell people lies or things you dont know anything about if you lived here you would know. (just because you read something on the internet does not make it TRUE)

 I want to see proof of this so called case of 2000 spiders taken from a home. wheres the link for that????

next ?  ...are you a doctor? if not dont tell people what you think a hole in thier leg is, because you dont know or have a clue(obviously).

as for the OP.....if it doesnt get better GO TO THE DR.


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## JPD (Oct 7, 2009)

Miami Cracker said:


> First things FIRST-------
> 
> YOU NEED TO STOP SPEAKING ABOUT THINGS YOU HAVE NO CLUE OF.
> 
> ...


Sorry, I have to argue a few points here.  I think that traxfish offers a sound argument and I tend to agree.
Here is the link to the article he/she refers to: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/518429_2
You mention that one should not believe everything they read on the internet.  I agree, however, you then ask for the link to the aforementioned article.  Should I draw from this that if you personally read the article and concur with its findings then we can accept it as fact?

I would like to know what laboratory test can be done to confirm a Brown Recluse bite?  I have worked in Laboratory Medicine for the better part of 15 years and you have me scratching my head.  So, just as you requested proof of the article, I am requesting the name of the lab test.

I would bet money that no one on "Venom One" would give a definite I.D. based on a bite alone with no culprit in sight.


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## Talkenlate04 (Oct 7, 2009)

> HAVE SEEN FIRST HAND
> alot of Brown Recluse spiders


Miami Cracker if they are everywhere like you claim it won't take long to capture one and submit photos for our viewing pleasure. 
I'll hold my breath while I wait. 
As for all the "bites" happening at you're work place, that is hard to believe too. I would put getting bit by a recluse and having a reaction worthy of a hospital visit somewhere in the ballpark of getting hit by lightning or winning the lottery.


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## loxoscelesfear (Oct 7, 2009)

I want to see proof of this so called case of 2000 spiders taken from a home. wheres the link for that????

@ Miami
Check the prison library for *The Journal of Entomology *39: pages 948-951. _An infestation of 2,055 brown recluse spiders (Araneae: Sicariidae) and no envenomations in a Kansas home:implications for bite diagnosis in non-endemic areas.  _

MRSA is a huge problem in prisons.  Although it would seem like recluse would thrive in Florida, their population tends to diminish in coastal areas (i.e., Florida) and most recluse bites are self-healing and do not result in rotting craters in the skin (Vetter 2009, _The Distribution of Brown Recluse in the Southeastern Quadrant of the United States in Relation to Loxoscelism Diangnoses_, from The Southern Medical Journal).


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## Noshownate (Oct 8, 2009)

all wounds have healed, gonna try and get a magnifying glass and a digi camera. legs i count 8. Will still try and trap some wild spiders for you guy sto identify. just hope i dont find em in my bedroom anymore 
the spider is still alive been in ziplock bag for 24 hours dang!


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## xhexdx (Oct 8, 2009)

Talkenlate04 said:


> Miami Cracker if they are everywhere like you claim it won't take long to capture one and submit photos for our viewing pleasure.
> I'll hold my breath while I wait.
> As for all the "bites" happening at you're work place, that is hard to believe too. I would put getting bit by a recluse and having a reaction worthy of a hospital visit somewhere in the ballpark of getting hit by lightning or winning the lottery.


I agree with this.

MC, catch some, freeze them (to kill them), and mail them to me.  If you can't get pics, I can.  That, and I want to see them in person.


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## Dale Marantz (Oct 8, 2009)

*Brown Recluse ID*

Hello
  I have lived in south Florida for two decades. In that
time I have only encountered recluse trough the cricket
farms I've delt with.
  From that source I was bitten,with possitive ID. I can
only say that has little resemblance to a recluse bite. 
  Good luck with whatever the cause,and take relief that
your incident has little resemblence to my experience!
                                           Best Regards
                                               Dale


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## Miami Cracker (Oct 8, 2009)

lets see if i can address all these requests....

the test that the "HOSPITAL" used is for specific proteins in the blood.
Venom One is in Miami and they are experts on the treatment of venomous bites from almost anything poisonous.

http://www.miamidade.gov/mdfr/emergency_special_venom.asp

i never said Brown Recluse were native....that being said, remember 

BURMESE PYTHONS, B.vagans, Africanized Honey Bees, snake head fish, carp, certain plants, you know i can go on all day with this..... 

i asked for the link to the story about 2000 spiders as sarcasm.

as far as catching one and taking pics???? sure i'll just walk in to a prison with a camera or better yet ill get some inmates to do me a favor and "hook me up" (that is not only against the rules but the camera would be ILLEGAL)

im really not into catching something that can kill me.

you know i was just thinking about when i first moved to SW Fla. from Miami.....i had no idea there was a "BROWN WIDOW or a RED WIDOW"
i had only seen a black widow twice in 32 years af living in Miami. (i was not looking for them)
but over in Lehigh my house is full of Brown Widows and the occasional Red Widow. i have only come across 2 Brown Recluse over here (near my house)
but i have seen a few near my prison. 

as far as MRSA... out of 1000 inmates with puss filled holes in thier legs 995 would be MRSA 4 will be some other spider or other creature and 1 would be a brown recluse.
i didnt say it was an everyday thing ....i have worked in the prison since 2001 and i have seen the hospital take blood and send it to a lab.....and have seen the results..... MRSA, different flesh eating bacteria,(yeah thats always fun when you have to strip search that one), Black and Brown Widow, (have never heard of a Red widow bite), even seen one guy who had an allergic reaction to a Huntsman bite, as far as Herpes, never seen or heard of it on your leg but .......

im not in a "coastal area" im inland and my prison in in the middle of the state.

dont know the name of any lab test but if someone goes to the hospital with a draining hole in thier body, what do you think the Drs do to determine as the cause??????? and when you ask the inmate what happened and they say " well we was fighting spiders and mine bit me" and you ask " where is the spider"? (its against the rules for inmates to keep anything as a pet) 
and they hand you a box with a BROWN RECLUSE in it and when you go to the hospital because you have to...... and the inmate tells the Dr. he got bit by a spider and you give the box to the Dr. and he takes it ??elsewhere and later comes in and says...to the inmate ..."based on your lab results and that spider in the box was a Brown Recluse........ so we are going to treat for a Brown Recluse"...... i tend to believe the inmate was bitten by a Brown Recluse. i learned a little about them, as far as my friend (who was bitten by a Brown Recluse in Miami Springs) and i have learned there is no antivenom for Brown Recluse as there is for Widows. so they treat Recluse bites with massive amount of antibiotics, which put said friend in ICU for about a week.
and he had to wear a box around his neck with a shunt in his chest for a few weeks after ICU to keep the antibiotics at a constant level in his body because HE WAS BITTEN BY A BROWN RECLUSE IN MIAMI.

I have also had inmates that went through the same thing.
thank you for the link to the story about 2000+ in a house (didnt believe but now i do)

i never said anyone was diagnosed as a Recluse bite just by the wound.

Hey talkenlate are you still holding your breath?????

i hope i answered all the Questions but if not let me know and as for getting pics ......i will try, i promise no joking or being a smart alec 

i just put my two cents because i know, i have seen with my eyes, not somebody telling me or i heard a story once.


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## Talkenlate04 (Oct 8, 2009)

Miami Cracker said:


> i just put my two cents because i know, i have seen with my eyes, not somebody telling me or i heard a story once.


Sounds like a lot of assuming to me. 



> im really not into catching something that can kill me.


  



> Hey talkenlate are you still holding your breath?????


Yep.


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## What (Oct 8, 2009)

Miami Cracker said:


> you know i was just thinking about when i first moved to SW Fla. from Miami.....i had no idea there was a "BROWN WIDOW or a RED WIDOW"
> i had only seen a black widow twice in 32 years af living in Miami. (i was not looking for them)
> but over in Lehigh my house is full of Brown Widows and the occasional Red Widow.


Umm... afaik L. bishopi is VERY selective about habitats and unless you live in a trailer park in the middle of Palmetto Scrub, you didnt have a bishopi in your house.

Anyways, if you have to remove soo many recluses from the prison anyways, bring in a cup one day, clear it with your boss, and bring it home to take a pic. Then kill/dispose of the spider and post the pics. Ok? Until then, your story is complete BS. 

Not to mention that unless I am seriously under read, there is no specific treatment regimen for brown recluse bites...but nice try.


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## Miami Cracker (Oct 8, 2009)

her is some info from the "internet"------(see i can do it too)

as far as the OP......here are some other more likely causes....all of which should be addressed with your Dr. not a bunch of idiots on a blog

The expression of Lyme disease can give the classic 'bull's-eye' patterning characteristic of brown recluse bite. Although Lyme disease is rare in Florida, it does exist and would be a more probable diagnosis than brown recluse bite. 
Alternatives to Consider in Suspected Cases of Brown Recluse Bite
Spider bites cause clean infarctions in the skin. If an inflammatory core lesion exists, necrotizing infection should be anticipated, not spider bite. A number of other arthropods and an assortment of diseases, some caused by microorganisms and some with other causes, are known to produce necrotic or apparent pre-necrotic wounds. Vetter (1998) gives a list of causative agents of necrotic wounds (related discussion can be found at the associated website). This list includes most of the following conditions: 

Tick-induced: tick bites and tick-borne diseases, such as erythema chronicum migrans (Lyme disease) and Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever; 
Viral: chronic herpes simplex, infected herpes simplex, herpes zoster (shingles); Bacterial: Gonococcal (G.C.) arthritis dermatitis, Mycobacterium ulcerans, Staphylococcus infection, Streptococcus infection; 
Fungal: keratin cell mediated response to a fungus, sporotrichosis;
Blood Disorders: focal vasiculitis, purpura fulminans, thromboembolic phenomena; Underlying Disease States: diabetic ulcer, chronic liver disease (spontaneous necrotizing fasciitis), pyoderma gangrenosum, toxic epidermal necrolysis (Lyells syndrome); 
Cancer: leukemia, lymphomatoid papulosis (LyP), lymphoma; 
Reaction to Drugs/toxins: alcoholism, erythema nodosum, warfarin and heparin poisoning; opical: chemical burn (e.g., oven cleaner), poison ivy/oak infection;
Miscellaneous/ Multiple Causative: bed sores, erythema multiforme, Stevens-Johnson syndrome, self-inflicted wounds
Unknown Causative Agents: periarteritis nodosa. 
Other possibilities include subcutaneous blisters and hives caused by stings of hymenopterous insects (ants, bees, yellowjackets, wasps), welts from urticating caterpillars, bites by predatory or parasitic bugs (assassin bugs, bed bugs), and other parasitic insect bites (black flies, mosquitoes, horse and deer flies, fleas). It is even possible that some as yet untested native spider is the cause of serious necrotic wounds. For example, circumstancial evidence in one case implicated Ctenus captiosus Gertsch (Edwards 1989), a wandering spider, as a cause of a necrotic bite, although a recent assay of the venom of this species did not find sphingomyelinase D (Dr. G. J. Bodner, personal communication, 2001). 

Medical Analysis
The following technical analysis is condensed from the medical literature. Persons who suspect they have been victimized by a brown recluse spider bite are strongly encouraged to consult with a physician. 

In medical terms (Vetter 1998), bites from Loxosceles can be unremarkable (requiring no care), localized (requiring some care but usually healing without intervention), dermonecrotic (a slow- healing, necrotic ulcerated lesion needing supportive care), or systemic (vascular and renal damage, sometimes life-threatening). Within 10 minutes of venom injection, there is a constriction of capillaries around the site of the bite. A major venom component is sphingomyelinase D which causes hemolysis (destruction of red blood cells). Recluse venom has a strong disruptive effect on endothelial tissue. Polymorphonucleocytes (PMN) are activated (by the patient.s immune system) and infiltrate the bite site; in test animals where PMN activity was suppressed, degree of necrosis was lessened. General symptoms are edema (swelling), erythema (redness caused by blood being brought to the surface to counteract the damage), pruritis (itching), pain at the site, and mild fever. A pruritic or painful eruption can occur within a few hours of the bite and persist for a week, ending with scaling and peeling of the hands, and a truncal papular rash, that recalls pictures of scarlet fever rashes; the pruritis may be worse for the patient than the painful focal necrosis. The skin may feel hot and tender to the patient. It may be advisable to treat the rash and pruritis symptoms with Prednisone (Anderson 1998). Treatment with corticosteroids does not appear to affect either the skin necrosis or the hemolysis (Anderson 1998). 

Dermatologic expression varies. In mild self-healing wounds, the bite site may not progress past an edematous erythema; these wounds do not become necrotic and non-intrusive care is sufficient. In more serious wounds, a sinking blue-gray macule on the skin contains a "bull's- eye" pattern formation where a central erythematous bleb (blister) is separated from a peripheral cyanotic region by a white zone of induration (red-white-blue). If the bite becomes violaceous within the first few hours, this usually indicates that severe necrosis may occur and more supportive measures are necessary. 

The initial bleb gives way to ischemia (localized temporary blood deficiency). A central eschar (hardened scab similar to that made after burns) forms, hardens, and within seven to 14 days the eschar falls out leaving behind an ulcerated depression. The necrosis may continue to spread from the bite site possibly due to an autoimmune response (see above). Normally, the wound limits begin to recede after one week as healing begins. Unnecessary removal of tissue often leads to greater scarring than would result from normal healing. Extirpation of damaged skin is only recommended in severe cases and only after the limits of the wound are strongly demarcated at six to eight weeks. Most wounds self-heal with excellent results. 

Systemic conditions that might manifest in severe cases are hematoglobinuria (hemoglobin in the urine), hematoglobinemia (reduction of useful hemoglobin, resulting in anemia-like condition), thrombocytopenia (reduction of clotting platelets in the blood), and/or disseminated intravascular coagulation (DIC) (precipitation of platelets causing mini-clots all over the body). The presence of sustained coagulopathy with hemolysis indicates severe systemic loxoscelism. Fortunately, less than 1% of cases exhibit these symptoms. Although rare, if death occurs, it is most often from hemolysis, renal failure and DIC; children are most adversely affected due to their small body mass. Anderson (1998) noted, however, that none of the fatalities were proven to have been caused by a brown recluse spider.
Typical symptoms are as follows: Symptoms start two to six hours after the bite. Blisters frequently appear at the bite site, accompanied by severe pain and pronounced swelling. A common expression is the formation of a reddish blister, surrounded by a bluish area, with a narrow whitish separation between the red and blue, giving a "bull's-eye" pattern. By 12 to 24 hours, it is usually apparent if a Loxosceles wound is going to become necrotic because it turns purple in color; if necrotic symptoms do not express by 48 to 96 hours, then they will not develop. If the skin turns purple, it will then turn black as cells die. Eventually the necrotic core falls away, leaving a deep pit that gradually fills with scar tissue. 

all of the above can be found just by googleing......

i never said the OP had a Recluse bite, all i sad was for TRAXFISH to not give medical advise and not discount something when there is evidence to the contrary so with that said ...

There are Brown Recluse Spiders in South Florida. There have been Recluse bites in South Florida. and if the OP thinks it is a Recluse ..GO TO THE HOSPITAL AND FIND OUT.


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## Miami Cracker (Oct 8, 2009)

to talkenlate ....how do you figure?? "Sounds like a lot of assuming to me. "
An assumption is a proposition that is taken for granted, as if it were true based upon presupposition without preponderance of the facts.

fact-- i was there. what part of my beingthere would be an assumption???


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## xhexdx (Oct 8, 2009)

This is fun...



Miami Cracker said:


> not a bunch of idiots on a blog


Where is the blog where idiots are giving him medical advice?



Miami Cracker said:


> There are Brown Recluse Spiders in South Florida. There have been Recluse bites in South Florida. and if the OP thinks it is a Recluse ..GO TO THE HOSPITAL AND FIND OUT.


If this is the case, I'm sure there are papers on it.  I'd like to see one.

All I asked for was a picture of the spider.  You say they're around your house, so go catch one.

Oh, and last I checked, they're not exactly *deadly* unless you're young or old.  Which are you?  And why should you worry, anyway?  Venom One is right there to save you...



Miami Cracker said:


> fact-- i was there. what part of my beingthere would be an assumption???


Perhaps that you know how to properly identify a recluse?  Or that the doctor knows how?

I could go on...

And I should mention I'm not trying to be a jerk (although people tend to take it that way), but I'm trying to get some sort of PROOF out of this whole thing.


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## Miami Cracker (Oct 8, 2009)

What said:


> Umm... afaik L. bishopi is VERY selective about habitats and unless you live in a trailer park in the middle of Palmetto Scrub, you didnt have a bishopi in your house.
> 
> Anyways, if you have to remove soo many recluses from the prison anyways, bring in a cup one day, clear it with your boss, and bring it home to take a pic. Then kill/dispose of the spider and post the pics. Ok? Until then, your story is complete BS.
> 
> Not to mention that unless I am seriously under read, there is no specific treatment regimen for brown recluse bites...but nice try.


specific treatment of Brown Recluse bite.......Massive regiment of antibiotics


there is no clearing it with my boss...catching a spider in a prison, and taking it home believe it or not could get me in trouble. 

do you live in Lehigh Acres.?????? I do .... I dont live in a trailer but i do have all kinds of Palm scrub around my house sooooo.......


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## Widowman10 (Oct 8, 2009)

xhexdx said:


> Where is the blog where idiots are giving him medical advice?


 i'm hoping this isn't the "blog." there are TONS of people here on this site that know a lot more than many doctors. docs are good in some areas, spiders are generally not that area. 

and joe, this is fun  

or something...


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## What (Oct 8, 2009)

Miami Cracker said:


> specific treatment of Brown Recluse bite.......Massive regiment of antibiotics


   


> do you live in Lehigh Acres.?????? I do .... I dont live in a trailer but i do have all kinds of Palm scrub around my house sooooo.......


Ah, well...knowing what I do about the habitat they like, I still dont believe they would be in your house(unless maybe a male got *very* lost).


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## Miami Cracker (Oct 8, 2009)

XHEN--- i know your not being a jerk (ive seen your post from along time)

like i said i will try to get a pic or a body for you 
as far as IDing  a recluse -------the violin------
and when i am in the ER with an inmate and the Dr. sends pics to whoever and says it a Recluse (because he has a specimen that i brought him)
so yes i can and so can a doctor .....and ..... we have memos on the inmate info boards that have pics of Recluses so the inmates can stay away from them (lol thats funny ...its an inside joke)

and i know somebody is going to say just take the one you bring to the ER.
i cant its called evidence.... i know it sounds stupid but its true. we can discipkline an inmate for it. sooo.......

and as for idiots giving medical advise........Traxfish starts coming up with other things it could be rather than tell the OP if you think its a spider bite and cant think of any other reason you have that gross looking leison on your leg GO TO THE DOCTOR

and my friend who got bit was around 25 years old he just had a bad reaction and as far as my inmates its usally just a leaking hole and maybe some other things like sweats , shortness of breath tightening of the chest and this is in healthy men. never said the bite was always deadly as a matter of fact i dont think i used the word deadly at all soo....


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## Widowman10 (Oct 8, 2009)

Miami Cracker said:


> as far as IDing  a recluse -------the violin------


hope that you are looking for the 3 diads also. to someone who is not familiar, other spiders can be mistaken. loxosceles are distinct though with 3 diads.


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## Miami Cracker (Oct 8, 2009)

Not 2000 in 1 day like you clowns say but 2055 in over a 6 month period...
i guess you only retain what info you deem fit for your arguement but the problem is it was bogus info.....

sucks to be you


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## xhexdx (Oct 8, 2009)

May I direct you to this subforum?  You may want to read it before you get yourself suspended.

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/forumdisplay.php?f=28

EDIT:  Too late...


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## loxoscelesfear (Oct 8, 2009)

*I WOULD RATHER ARGUE MORALS WITH A CATHOLIC PRIEST *

lol  pretty funny 

The debate is simple: recluse distribution.  It's not impossible for some recluse to be in southern Florida, but, southern Florida, according to the literature, is not even close to their natural range. This is a spider forum, so some disagreements should be expected if one is seeing a spider in an area that it normally shouldn't reside in. Don't take it personal, it's all good.


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## traxfish (Oct 8, 2009)

We seem to have a troll on our hands.



> next ? ...are you a doctor? if not dont tell people what you think a hole in thier leg is, because you dont know or have a clue(obviously).





> i never said the OP had a Recluse bite, all i sad was for TRAXFISH to not give medical advise and not discount something when there is evidence to the contrary so with that said ...


No where did I claim medical expertise, nor is there anything suggested that my words was medical advice.  I didn't even claim I knew what that was, just what it could be.  My claim was and still is that the mark on the OP's leg could have been any number of issues, and it really doesn't make any sense to assume it is a brown recluse bite.  I didn't say he shouldn't go see a doctor (in fact, a lot of those ailments I listed unquestionably warrant a visit to the doctor).  Yet you blast me as a "moron" and all the other "bunch of idiots on a blog" in this forum. 

As far as list of ailments that can be easily misdiagnosed as recluse bites, I didn't "come up with" them.  My source is Rick Vetter, which is sad because it seems to be your only source as well, other than a vague link to a Miami Venom Response Program that doesn't seem to offer any real evidence of confirming that brown recluses have even been found in southern Florida.
http://spiders.ucr.edu/necrotic.html

You claim that you see many, many recluses in the prison you work at in southern Florida, but can't seem to be able to supply any.  I wonder why?  



> and i know somebody is going to say just take the one you bring to the ER.  i cant its called evidence.... i know it sounds stupid but its true. we can discipkline an inmate for it. sooo.......





> dont know the name of any lab test but if someone goes to the hospital with a draining hole in thier body, what do you think the Drs do to determine as the cause??????? and when you ask the inmate what happened and they say " well we was fighting spiders and mine bit me" and you ask " where is the spider"? (its against the rules for inmates to keep anything as a pet) and they hand you a box with a BROWN RECLUSE in it and when you go to the hospital because you have to...... and the inmate tells the Dr. he got bit by a spider and you give the box to the Dr. and he takes it ??elsewhere and later comes in and says...to the inmate ..."based on your lab results and that spider in the box was a Brown Recluse........ so we are going to treat for a Brown Recluse"...... i tend to believe the inmate was bitten by a Brown Recluse. i learned a little about them, as far as my friend (who was bitten by a Brown Recluse in Miami Springs) and i have learned there is no antivenom for Brown Recluse as there is for Widows. so they treat Recluse bites with massive amount of antibiotics, which put said friend in ICU for about a week.
> and he had to wear a box around his neck with a shunt in his chest for a few weeks after ICU to keep the antibiotics at a constant level in his body because HE WAS BITTEN BY A BROWN RECLUSE IN MIAMI.


Contradict yourself much?


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## JPD (Oct 8, 2009)

Disregard...


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## Noshownate (Oct 9, 2009)

I wish theyre was a way of knowing by looking at a wound what it is. I hear spider bites will have the bullseye and in middle white bump and also two little fang marks i guess would be the giveaway or not i don't know. I just know friends that have had flesh eating things happen to them from a little wound like i had, still i have no clue what caused this thing on my leg. I don't have health insurance so i dont want to just go to a doctor to misdiagnose and charge me a grand. Here in southwest florida we have a ton of critters moving evrywhere big difference from Boston I'l Tell ya. It kinda suck that theyre are soo many things it COULD be, Some sites say ice it down, some people say warm it soo it seems this subject maybe isn't completely understood. Every mark i get on my body I get paranoid and think its flesh eating something, prob didnt help that my roommate a few months ago had a huge hole in his forearm and i had to help change gauze awww sicck trust me. i really appreciate the help wish theyre were better ways of identifying wounds.


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## JPD (Oct 9, 2009)

Noshownate said:


> I wish theyre was a way of knowing by looking at a wound what it is. I hear spider bites will have the bullseye and in middle white bump and also two little fang marks i guess would be the giveaway or not i don't know. I just know friends that have had flesh eating things happen to them from a little wound like i had, still i have no clue what caused this thing on my leg. I don't have health insurance so i dont want to just go to a doctor to misdiagnose and charge me a grand. Here in southwest florida we have a ton of critters moving evrywhere big difference from Boston I'l Tell ya. It kinda suck that theyre are soo many things it COULD be, Some sites say ice it down, some people say warm it soo it seems this subject maybe isn't completely understood. Every mark i get on my body I get paranoid and think its flesh eating something, prob didnt help that my roommate a few months ago had a huge hole in his forearm and i had to help change gauze awww sicck trust me. i really appreciate the help wish theyre were better ways of identifying wounds.



Check for health programs within your county.  Many times there is help available with regard to healthcare but many do not know that it is out there.  I'm not sure what sources you looked at regarding the treatment options but WebMD is a good source.  Just keep an eye on things.  I have not read through this entire thread but if no one has suggested it, slap some antibiotic ointment on the area as well.  It may help and definitely won't hurt.  I think you can buy over-the-counter ointments that contain 3 fairly broad spectrum antibiotics that will target a few more types of bacteria than ones containing just a single one.  No amount of advice on the forums is a substitute for a physician though so look into programs in your area ok


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## Noshownate (Oct 9, 2009)

thnx jpd good call


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## nikinizor (Oct 14, 2009)

*recluses in NW*



jcornish86 said:


> LOL WOW who ever told you there are not recluse in washington seattle area is a complete moron. Dont try to insult me via these forums, i have seen plenty of recluse bites. This is the most active time for people to be bit, As they try and enter peoples houses/garages to get some warmth. One of the most retarded things i have ever heard some one say on these forums.
> 
> I had a best freind get bit last year, left a 2inch crater in his wrist, he almost lost his thumb.
> But hey what the hell do i know.... gl with your bite. But the above guy is right that could be any from of bite/irratation.


I have to agree with you and having been in Olympia WA since 97...(was immediatly warned by locals of the recluse being a common spider here...several times) and have seen quite a few bites and heard a plethora of brown recluse stories(ya ya ya stories are stories) I found one my self a couple years ago but didnt keep it(I am a tarantula guy!) and on a side note found one in south dakota that was verified by a spider expert and also had them in our basement in pennsylvania as a kid...all places that ''are not in thier territory''...so I dont have any faith at all in that map of thier territory...as for telling what kind of spider from a blurry pic, who knows! good luck with the bite(or herpes lol)


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## vvx (Oct 14, 2009)

If you mean "brown spider", yes we have those here. The brown spider has a pretty enormous range, and in fact can be found almost everywhere.


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## Talkenlate04 (Oct 14, 2009)

nikinizor said:


> I have to agree with you and having been in Olympia WA since 97...(was immediatly warned by locals of the recluse being a common spider here...several times) and have seen quite a few bites and heard a plethora of brown recluse stories(ya ya ya stories are stories) I found one my self a couple years ago but didnt keep it(I am a tarantula guy!) and on a side note found one in south dakota that was verified by a spider expert and also had them in our basement in pennsylvania as a kid...all places that ''are not in thier territory''...so I dont have any faith at all in that map of thier territory...as for telling what kind of spider from a blurry pic, who knows! good luck with the bite(or herpes lol)


Lol dude go look up the natural habitat of the brown recluse. jcornish86 you too. Lol. You guys crack me up.  And I am not insulting you jcornish86, you are just plain wrong. :} 
MAYBE you will learn something by doing a little research.
I'll give you the link just to spare you the effort. (and remember the white areas DONT have them lol)

http://images.google.com/imgres?img...+recluse+spider+habitat+range&hl=en&sa=N&um=1


Vvx thanks for the laugh!  Better watch out for the brown ones.


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## spinningspider (Oct 15, 2009)

there are 13 loxosceles sp. in the US all ranging from SoCal east ward. most of their habitats are much different then up north. keeping a few species myself they prefer much warmer climates and appear VERY similar to regular house spiders... i HIGHLY doubt their are Loxosceles in the NW even though i have been warned I have never seen a specimen outside of captivity up here. just my 2 cents


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## Noshownate (Mar 16, 2010)

i juust had a friend come by today saying they found a brown recluse in theyre truck. then i said nope brown recluse it out of theyre natural terrain/area very controversial stuff i guess.:?


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## KUJordan (Mar 18, 2010)

Miami Cracker said:


> specific treatment of Brown Recluse bite.......Massive regiment of antibiotics
> 
> 
> there is no clearing it with my boss...catching a spider in a prison, and taking it home believe it or not could get me in trouble.
> ...


Wow I realize I haven't posted here in like a year or whatever, and this is waaayy late on this thread.  I just have to put my 2 cents in.  As far as I know there truly is no specific test (would be IgM Ab) for recluse venom as of yet.  If someone comes into the ER with a necrotic lesion and says they play with spiders, the "test" that would lead a physician to even consider a spider bite would be a number of tests to rule out other causes- such as MRSA, _Strep pyogenes, Mycobacterium marinum_, etc...other nectrotizing bacteria.  If any specific bacteria were present, it will be specifically treated as such a lesion with Abx.  If not, then it might be considered a "bite" of some sort- then the treatment of a "recluse" (not in SFLa) bite would be a "massive regiment of Antibiotics"- to both treat what actually might be the cause (they actually probably still are thinking bacterial etiology) and to prevent secondary infections of the wound.

The bottom line is that you'd think with the Age of Information, we would be better informed- we are not, maybe worse.  I live in Lawrence, KS and the 2000+ recluses in a house is not only true, but is something that is not even uncommon here.  That study is fact and people don't want to believe it, but yet there most likely are NO _L. reclusa_ in WA or SFLa but people are so quick to adopt it as fact.  I caught over 300 in ONE SUMMER in my tiny apartment by just scooping them into individual cups if they were on my floor or under the sink.  We have recluses (real ones) like certain places have ants.  And you know what- I bet Lawrence Memorial Hospital probably diagnoses somewhere around ZERO people per year with true/confirmed brown recluse bites.  

Regarding recluse bites it is highly highly highly unlikely than any necrotizing lesion is actually caused by the bite of_ L. reclusa_ or any other Loxosceles.  The don't even have opposable fangs!  Unless you wake up one day and have a crazy lesion and find a smashed recluse in your sheets or if you have a bad bite on your leg and you find a smashed recluse on your leg or in your jeans- it is probably bacterial.  Any simple erythematous pruritic bump could be 20 billion things/bites/infections.  The vast majority are bacterial infections.    

-Jordan


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## mitchnast (Mar 19, 2010)

I will give $100 to anyone who can lead me to a place where Brown recluses occur in south central British Columbia.  from Kelowna to Osoyoos.
I'll only need to see a few of this locally abundant species.  It has to be obviously not planted.
And if you waste my time, you owe me $25.

What have you got to lose?


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