# The Balfouri Communal



## Kodi (Sep 14, 2016)

I got my 15 balfouri slings and placed them in their enclosure today. This thread is where I'll be posting updates on the progress and to share the experience. Once they all scurried off into their secret black holes I circled the tank probably 10 times and I could only ever find about 5 even with a flashlight. Then I realized the little buggers were hiding in the moss.


You can kind of see his little legs near the substrate. Sneaky sneaky...



I threw a (difficultly) prekilled cricket in there and I'm hoping to see a T pile when I get home from work.

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## Kodi (Sep 14, 2016)

They are just so dang cute.

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## Trenor (Sep 14, 2016)

Good luck. How big is your enclosure?


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## Kodi (Sep 14, 2016)

Trenor said:


> Good luck. How big is your enclosure?


It's the 5 gallon from the old thread. Don't worry they won't be staying together after a molt or two.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kodi (Sep 14, 2016)

This species is fascinating. I wonder what it is about their evolution that made them cohabitat and thrive together. It also amazes me how this is the only tarantula that has been discovered with this behavior.


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## REEFSPIDER (Sep 14, 2016)

I believe the N inceii is also a communal species

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Kodi (Sep 14, 2016)

REEFSPIDER said:


> I believe the N inceii is also a communal species


Do they tolerate one another like avics or do they live together?


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## REEFSPIDER (Sep 14, 2016)

Kodi said:


> Do they tolerate one another like avics or do they live together?


I believe they live together in the wild. Densely.
As far as in the hobby goes here's one of many examples of success with communal H inceii. This poster managed to achieve third generation slings that cohabitated the enclosure with the first and second generations, essentially three sets of spiders at different stages of life living communally.
http://arachnoboards.com/threads/my-holothele-incei-communal.274691/

I would never place more than one avic in an enclosure unless I were pairing them. IMO.

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## Kodi (Sep 15, 2016)

@Trenor How long did it take after housing for them to eat?


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## Trenor (Sep 15, 2016)

Kodi said:


> @Trenor How long did it take after housing for them to eat?


They ate pretty quickly, a day or two at the most. For my communal setups I've use dubias with crushed heads and placed them around the enclosure. That way when laid on their back they don't go far. I check where I laid them and that lets me know if they have been eating. Depending on the size of the slings they may not eat a lot and they will fill up faster.

How big is the food you're trying and how are you feeding it?

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## Kodi (Sep 15, 2016)

Trenor said:


> They ate pretty quickly, a day or two at the most. For my communal setups I've use dubias with crushed heads and placed them around the enclosure. That way when laid on their back they don't go far. I check where I laid them and that lets me know if they have been eating. Depending on the size of the slings they may not eat a lot and they will fill up faster.
> 
> How big is the food you're trying and how are you feeding it?


A prekilled cricket probably 1.5 times their size. I'm assuming all 14 of them are in the same burrow considering I can't see any others anywhere else.


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## Trenor (Sep 15, 2016)

Kodi said:


> A prekilled cricket probably 1.5 times their size. I'm assuming all 15 of them are in the same burrow considering I can't see any others anywhere else.


With that many Ts in the enclosure I'd put several 3-5 prekilled crickets around the enclosure and leave them over night. They like to eat late at night for the most part.


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## Kodi (Sep 15, 2016)

Trenor said:


> With that many Ts in the enclosure I'd put several 3-5 prekilled crickets around the enclosure and leave them over night. They like to eat late at night for the most part.


I did that with the one cricket. Maybe I should just move one closer to the burrow.


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## Trenor (Sep 15, 2016)

Kodi said:


> I did that with the one cricket. Maybe I should just move one closer to the burrow.


If they are hungry they'll find it.


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## viper69 (Sep 15, 2016)

Kodi said:


> Do they tolerate one another like avics or do they live together?


I've seen a picture of N. incei in the wild living very densely.  Avics aren't communal from what I know. Sure people keep them together at times, but that's not true communal living, that's simply tolerating your neighbor enough that you don't kill him, not my idea of communal living as often observed in captivity w/ balfouri.

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## Kodi (Sep 15, 2016)

viper69 said:


> I've seen a picture of N. incei in the wild living very densely.  Avics aren't communal from what I know. Sure people keep them together at times, but that's not true communal living, that's simply tolerating your neighbor enough that you don't kill him, not my idea of communal living as often observed in captivity w/ balfouri.


Exactly my thoughts. Do you know of anyone keeping N. incei communally? Strange I haven't heard of anyone.


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## viper69 (Sep 15, 2016)

Kodi said:


> Exactly my thoughts. Do you know of anyone keeping N. incei communally? Strange I haven't heard of anyone.


I used to know of people years ago, but they are not on AB anymore. N incei used to be a lot more popular than it is now these past couple of years. I used to see them all the time.


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## Kodi (Sep 15, 2016)

viper69 said:


> I used to know of people years ago, but they are not on AB anymore. N incei used to be a lot more popular than it is now these past couple of years. I used to see them all the time.


Well can you guess what's going in my extra enclosure now?


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## viper69 (Sep 15, 2016)

Kodi said:


> Well can you guess what's going in my extra enclosure now?


Hopefully incei and not Avics

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## Kodi (Sep 15, 2016)

viper69 said:


> Hopefully incei and not Avics


Haha you are correct. Never did I think an avic communal was a good idea.

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## Haksilence (Sep 16, 2016)

viper69 said:


> I used to know of people years ago, but they are not on AB anymore. N incei used to be a lot more popular than it is now these past couple of years. I used to see them all the time.


didnt a sac or two just make its way into the circulation a couple months ago? I thought i had seen the olives all over the place for a month or two. ive been on the lookout next tiem someone gets a sac from them. looking to pick up 10 slings or so next tie i see them surface at a decent price


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## Kodi (Sep 16, 2016)

Haksilence said:


> didnt a sac or two just make its way into the circulation a couple months ago? I thought i had seen the olives all over the place for a month or two. ive been on the lookout next tiem someone gets a sac from them. looking to pick up 10 slings or so next tie i see them surface at a decent price


They're sold all over the place. You just have to look under their former scientific name. Holothele incei.


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## viper69 (Sep 16, 2016)

Haksilence said:


> didnt a sac or two just make its way into the circulation a couple months ago? I thought i had seen the olives all over the place for a month or two. ive been on the lookout next tiem someone gets a sac from them. looking to pick up 10 slings or so next tie i see them surface at a decent price


I meant more frequently than I have seen them these past couple of years. They are a great species.



Kodi said:


> They're sold all over the place. You just have to look under their former scientific name. Holothele incei.


True, or under their new one

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## Kodi (Sep 16, 2016)

viper69 said:


> I meant more frequently than I have seen them these past couple of years. They are a great species.
> 
> 
> 
> True, or under their new one


What's up with the olive and gold forms?

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## Kodi (Sep 16, 2016)

Why is there two forms? Where did they come from?


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## viper69 (Sep 16, 2016)

Kodi said:


> What's up with the olive and gold forms?


What's up with your "question"?? What are you asking????

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## viper69 (Sep 16, 2016)

Kodi said:


> Why is there two forms? Where did they come from?


Google is your friend!  Result of breeding, purely by accident, not selective breeding.


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## Kodi (Sep 16, 2016)

viper69 said:


> Google is your friend!  Result of breeding, purely by accident, not selective breeding.


Well I thought since I have you here.


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## viper69 (Sep 16, 2016)

I see, if you search google you'll find the original records showing production of the gold morph.

The N. incei Gold is the only T morph produced in captivity to my knowledge. It's really odd that out of all these pairings nothing else has come about from any other species.


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## Kodi (Sep 16, 2016)

viper69 said:


> I see, if you search google you'll find the original records showing production of the gold morph.
> 
> The N. incei Gold is the only T morph produced in captivity. It's really odd that out of all these pairings nothing else has come about from any other species.


Wow. Do you think it's albinism or wild crossbreeding?


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## Najakeeper (Sep 16, 2016)

My male finally matured and my female is about to molt.

I am also planning to put them into a large permanent enclosure for a communal later on.

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## Jones0911 (Sep 16, 2016)

Kodi said:


> Haha you are correct. Never did I think an avic communal was a good idea.


If you do H incei communal please do H incei GOLD....!!!!!


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## Kodi (Sep 16, 2016)

Jones0911 said:


> If you do H incei communal please do H incei GOLD....!!!!!


Boy are you excited. Why?


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## Jones0911 (Sep 16, 2016)

Lol I have six of these and I just love the gold ones lol...but mine aren't grouped


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## Kodi (Sep 16, 2016)

Jones0911 said:


> Lol I have six of these and I just love the gold ones lol...but mine aren't grouped


I'll definitely keep that in mind.

I almost forgot to post this picture. 



What do you guys think about the few darker ones? Premolt or maybe they're a molt ahead?

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## viper69 (Sep 16, 2016)

Kodi said:


> Wow. Do you think it's albinism or wild crossbreeding?


Google up their history please, they were neither. Regarding albinism. A change in color doesn't mean albino, as some people have speculated about the golds. Some of the people who have suggested this simply don't know what they are talking about.

Albinism depends on a few things. The primary one being how the color in their setae is produced.

For example, many (and likely all) blue tarantulas are not blue due to pigment. So, if the gold form is not the result of pigment it cannot be an albino.

Second, lets assume the color is a result of pigment. Then the color must be the result of a very specific change in a particular molecular pathway. If that is not the case, then they would not be albinos either. You can google up those details. You learn it better if you find it yourself than by someone just re-typing what is out there.

There are albino insects however so there are examples of albinism in non-vertebrates.

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## Haksilence (Sep 16, 2016)

viper69 said:


> I meant more frequently than I have seen them these past couple of years. They are a great species.
> 
> 
> 
> True, or under their new one



I've looked and only person who seems to have them for sale on the boards or any large dealers is cold blood. He has like 5 or six for sale if I remember right

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## advan (Sep 16, 2016)

viper69 said:


> Avics aren't communal from what I know. Sure people keep them together at times, but that's not true communal living, that's simply tolerating your neighbor enough that you don't kill him, not my idea of communal living as often observed in captivity w/ balfouri.


_Avicularia minatrix _can be kept communally. They behave like _Poecilotheria _in communals_.  



Kodi said:



			Exactly my thoughts. Do you know of anyone keeping N. incei communally? Strange I haven't heard of anyone.
		
Click to expand...

_Many, many people have, including myself. I'm amazed this is the first you're hearing about it. Maybe research, read, research, read and search some more to get caught up or are you too busy still trying to breed hybrids?  Clicky.

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## viper69 (Sep 16, 2016)

advan said:


> _Avicularia minatrix _can be kept communally. They behave like _Poecilotheria _in communals_.
> _
> Many, many people have, including myself. I'm amazed this is the first you're hearing about it. Maybe research, read, research, read and search some more to get caught up or are you too busy still trying to breed hybrids?  Clicky.


Thanks on A. minatrix and their communal behavior. I hadn't come across that one. Then again, I don't look up what species I own to learn if they can be kept communally. All my Ts get their own condo, including my balfouri.

I had forgotten Kodi was up to FrankenTs, forgot that thread! When I saw "crossbreeds" something jogged my memory but not enough.


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## viper69 (Sep 16, 2016)

Haksilence said:


> I've looked and only person who seems to have them for sale on the boards or any large dealers is cold blood. He has like 5 or six for sale if I remember right


I have a few from him. I wasn't looking for any, but thanks! Just saying I don't see them offered as regularly as I used to. I don't know why either I think they are great Ts, very interesting, very aggressive eaters, yet extremely shy. Plus, they don't have urticating setae!

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## Kodi (Sep 16, 2016)

Out of all the people that could have brought that up it ended up being a staff member. Great.

And I had heard of N. incei communal but since I hadn't heard of any recent endeavors I assumed they were similar to people keeping avics together.


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## netr (Sep 16, 2016)

Another reportedly communal species is Heterothele villosella. Two years ago, I had 12 (if I recall) slings set up together and they seemed to do very well for a few months. Alas, I underestimated their feeding requirements and finished up with one very fat, very healthy individual.

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## Moonohol (Sep 16, 2016)

netr said:


> Another reportedly communal species is Heterothele villosella. Two years ago, I had 12 (if I recall) slings set up together and they seemed to do very well for a few months. Alas, I underestimated their feeding requirements and finished up with one very fat, very healthy individual.


I really want to set up an H. gabonensis communal but I'm worried about exactly that happening. Definitely seems like something you need a lot of husbandry experience and awareness to manage.

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## Kodi (Sep 16, 2016)

Kodi said:


> I'll definitely keep that in mind.
> 
> I almost forgot to post this picture.
> View attachment 220515
> ...


@viper69  what's informative about this?


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## advan (Sep 16, 2016)

Kodi said:


> @viper69  what's informative about this?


Those are a molt cycle ahead of the others.

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## Kodi (Sep 16, 2016)

advan said:


> Those are a molt cycle ahead of the others.


Ah thank you.


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## Bread (Sep 16, 2016)

How come you plan to separate them?
My 10 arrive Monday and will be together forever


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## Kodi (Sep 16, 2016)

Bread said:


> How come you plan to separate them?
> My 10 arrive Monday and will be together forever


Well I live in a tiny apartment and I would need a pretty big tank to house 14 adults. It's just not practical for me.


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## Bread (Sep 16, 2016)

ah I see, Im sticking mine in a small enclosure for now, then eventually into the 80gallon fish tank I have in the garage

edi** should add thats Uk gallons, so 96 ish US gallons

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## Kodi (Sep 16, 2016)

Bread said:


> ah I see, Im sticking mine in a small enclosure for now, then eventually into the 80gallon fish tank I have in the garage
> 
> edi** should add thats Uk gallons, so 96 ish US gallons


That is going to be fantastic, especially once you get multiple sacs.


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## tnerd93 (Sep 16, 2016)

Bread said:


> ah I see, Im sticking mine in a small enclosure for now, then eventually into the 80gallon fish tank I have in the garage
> 
> edi** should add thats Uk gallons, so 96 ish US gallons


lol did you make that bread?

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## Bread (Sep 16, 2016)

Im afraid not. Its cool though

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## Haksilence (Sep 16, 2016)

viper69 said:


> I have a few from him. I wasn't looking for any, but thanks! Just saying I don't see them offered as regularly as I used to. I don't know why either I think they are great Ts, very interesting, very aggressive eaters, yet extremely shy. Plus, they don't have urticating setae!


oh no, you misunderstnad, i was saying i was trying to track down a bulk of them and ahvent seen anyone with them besides cold blood. wasnt trying to track them down for you . i was agreeing with you that, outside of the surge of them (which vanished quickly) that apparently came up a couple months ago, i havent seen very many people offering them.

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## Haksilence (Sep 16, 2016)

advan said:


> _Avicularia minatrix _can be kept communally. They behave like _Poecilotheria _in communals_.
> _
> Many, many people have, including myself. I'm amazed this is the first you're hearing about it. Maybe research, read, research, read and search some more to get caught up or are you too busy still trying to breed hybrids?  Clicky.


can we just remove people that have been known to recreationally hybridize tarantulas? there really have zero to offer he boards and only act as lighter fluid.

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## Kodi (Sep 16, 2016)

Haksilence said:


> can we just remove people that have been known to recreationally hybridize tarantulas? there really have zero to offer he boards and only act as lighter fluid.


"Recreationally" 

This entire hobby is recreational. Hence the name hobby.


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## 14pokies (Sep 16, 2016)

Haksilence said:


> can we just remove people that have been known to recreationally hybridize tarantulas? there really have zero to offer he boards and only act as lighter fluid.


Ouch that was harsh.... You sound like me.. Hmm now I like you.. 

 But Seriously  @Kodi I don't know much about your FrankenTs project and I can't judge you for past mistakes but  hybridization is caustic in this hobby. 
Sometimes it's a minor difference that differentiates species and it's already difficult to identify MM of some as well..

 Export bans from other country's are always a possibility and if it happens we are stuck with what ever species we have from that particular country.. It's important to keep what we have pure for the future of the hobby.. 

I didn't come here just to dog you though.. I'm happy you had some success at raising a comunal enclosure.. I just started keeping balfouri but my advice is way more sub wether you keep them together or not.. 
I have a 1 incher on about 5 inches of coco husk and he went straight to the bottom and has been laying web like crazy on the surface..It seems odd to me that  they are visible like that.. 
Maybe you have a few inches and I can't see it because of the camera angle but I'm curious as to why they aren't dug in..

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## Kodi (Sep 16, 2016)

14pokies said:


> Ouch that was harsh.... You sound like me.. Hmm now I like you..
> 
> But Seriously  @Kodi I don't know much about your FrankenTs project and I can't judge you for past mistakes but  hybridization is caustic in this hobby.
> Sometimes it's a minor difference that differentiates species and it's already difficult to identify MM of some as well..
> ...


I just got them Wednesday. There's a good 3-6 inches depending on the side of the tank.


A better field of view pic.

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## Trenor (Sep 16, 2016)

14pokies said:


> I'm happy you had some success at raising a comunal enclosure.. I just started keeping balfouri but my advice is way more sub wether you keep them together or not..
> I have a 1 incher on about 5 inches of coco husk and he went straight to the bottom and has been laying web like crazy on the surface..It seems odd to me that they are visible like that..
> Maybe you have a few inches and I can't see it because of the camera angle but I'm curious as to why they aren't dug in..


+1 to this. I've got 4-5 inches in both my communal enclosures and I had multiple corkbark start burrows setup. They went right in and that helps them settle. Though they all ended up in the same burrow system they could have each had a separate burrow if they wanted it.

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## Trenor (Sep 16, 2016)

Kodi said:


> I just got them Wednesday. There's a good 3-6 inches depending on the side of the tank.
> View attachment 220583


Well that should be plenty. Are they still on top of the substrate huddled?


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## 14pokies (Sep 16, 2016)

viper69 said:


> There are albino insects however so there are examples of albinism in non-vertebrates.


You know why I like you viper? Hmm? It's because of this.. You teach me something new every day.. Seriously.. I had no idea that albinism occures in insects.. Very cool.. 

I was going to ask what species but I figured I better google it instead! ;-)  The albino mantids are awesome!

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## Kodi (Sep 16, 2016)

Trenor said:


> Well that should be plenty. Are they still on top of the substrate huddled?


That picture was when I first introduced them you guys jeez. They are no where in sight.


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## 14pokies (Sep 16, 2016)

Trenor said:


> Well that should be plenty. Are they still on top of the substrate huddled?


Maybe moisture level? His sub looks kind of moist..

 I had mine on semi moist coco husk at first and it dug but since it has dried out its been going crazy laying web and digging to middle earth!


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## Kodi (Sep 16, 2016)

Kodi said:


> That picture was when I first introduced them you guys jeez. They are no where in sight.


Emphasis on this reply. ^


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## 14pokies (Sep 16, 2016)

Kodi said:


> That picture was when I first introduced them you guys jeez. They are no where in sight.


Oh well how are we to know unless we ask.. Would you rather have us ask nothing when we see Ts acting strange and then you lose a bunch of spiders? I can do that for you if you like...

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## Kodi (Sep 16, 2016)

14pokies said:


> Oh well how are we to know unless we ask.. Would you rather have us ask nothing when we see Ts acting strange and then you lose a bunch of spiders? I can do that for you if you like...


I didn't say anything about them acting strange so no worries here. I'm just waiting for them to eat those darn crickets.


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## viper69 (Sep 16, 2016)

14pokies said:


> You know why I like you viper? Hmm? It's because of this.. You teach me something new every day.. Seriously.. I had no idea that albinism occures in insects.. Very cool..
> 
> I was going to ask what species but I figured I better google it instead! ;-)  The albino mantids are awesome!


Thanks 14Pokies! That's very nice of you to say. Here's the article https://www.researchgate.net/public...ect_in_the_first_step_of_melanin_biosynthesis

And pigmented related, here's a *PINK grasshopper* in the wild, extremely rare

http://voices.nationalgeographic.com/2013/06/14/the-pink-grasshopper-no-its-not-a-cocktail/

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## 14pokies (Sep 16, 2016)

Kodi said:


> I didn't say anything about them acting strange so no worries here. I'm just waiting for them to eat those darn crickets.



Mine was slow to eat also.. He just took his first meal tonight.. I got him maybe ten days ago... He molted the first night.. 
The darker Ts in your pic are a molt ahead of the rest.. You figure they are hardening up and the rest are nearing a molt.. It's no surprise they aren't eating..


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## viper69 (Sep 16, 2016)

Kodi said:


> "Recreationally"
> 
> This entire hobby is recreational. Hence the name hobby.


Some take their hobby more seriously than others.

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## Haksilence (Sep 16, 2016)

Kodi said:


> "Recreationally"
> 
> This entire hobby is recreational. Hence the name hobby.


I say recreationally because there MAY be some justification for a taxonomist studying problem species hybrids to better identify the species' and their genetics. So by recreationally I mean ignorant fools who think it would be "cool" to cross breed.

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## Kodi (Sep 16, 2016)

14pokies said:


> Mine was slow to eat also.. He just took his first meal tonight.. I got him maybe ten days ago... He molted the first night..
> The darker Ts in your pic are a molt ahead of the rest.. You figure they are hardening up and the rest are nearing a molt.. It's no surprise they aren't eating..


That's what I figured. Only 3 of them are that darker color.

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## 14pokies (Sep 16, 2016)

viper69 said:


> Thanks 14Pokies! That's very nice of you to say. Here's the article https://www.researchgate.net/public...ect_in_the_first_step_of_melanin_biosynthesis
> 
> And pigmented related, here's a *PINK grasshopper* in the wild, extremely rare
> 
> http://voices.nationalgeographic.com/2013/06/14/the-pink-grasshopper-no-its-not-a-cocktail/


I'm going to.check out those articles but first.. I saw it that thing was crazy looking.. It pops up on the same page when you google albino insects.. 

Fun fact about pokies.. I love pink! So yea I tweaked when I saw that!

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## Kodi (Sep 16, 2016)

Haksilence said:


> I say recreationally because there MAY be some justification for a taxonomist studying problem species hybrids to better identify the species' and their genetics. So by recreationally I mean ignorant fools who think it would be "cool" to cross breed.


Yeah that was me at about 16. A completely different person as far as I'm concerned.

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## Haksilence (Sep 16, 2016)

Kodi said:


> Yeah that was me at about 16. A completely different person as far as I'm concerned.


Hopefully that "brand new person" understands why he can't hybridize tarantulas

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## viper69 (Sep 16, 2016)

14pokies said:


> Export bans from other country's are always a possibility and if it happens we are stuck with what ever species we have from that particular country.. It's important to keep what we have pure for the future of the hobby..


I really wish the T hobbyists would get this through their heads. I can't explain why, but the Dart Frog hobbyists don't seem to have this problem at all to my knowledge. Every time I hear hybrid + Ts, I think the person's computer should get a power surge.

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## Kodi (Sep 16, 2016)

Haksilence said:


> Hopefully that "brand new person" understands why he can't hybridize tarantulas


I said completely different not brand new. I am in fact still Kodi.

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## 14pokies (Sep 16, 2016)

Kodi said:


> I said completely different not brand new. I am in fact still Kodi.


I don't believe you.. Show us your I.D.

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## Kodi (Sep 16, 2016)

14pokies said:


> I don't believe you.. Show us your I.D.


My credentials sir.

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## 14pokies (Sep 17, 2016)

Kodi said:


> My credentials sir.


You sir are a master of your craft...

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## cold blood (Sep 17, 2016)

Kodi said:


> Wow. Do you think it's albinism or wild crossbreeding?


Its a recessive gene.   Olives without the gene will not produce golds, two golds will produce, in theory, all golds.  

I paired 2 olives, and got something like 101 olives and 27 golds.



Kodi said:


> That is going to be fantastic, especially once you get multiple sacs.


Geez, he hasn't got them (or just got them) and you're already talking multiple sacs....hehe.

It seemed like most of the incei I shipped were destined for communals, although I don't keep them that way.

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## Trenor (Sep 17, 2016)

cold blood said:


> It seemed like most of the incei I shipped were destined for communals, although I don't keep them that way.


I got 7 (2 gold, 5 olive) from you but they are all separate. I've thought about making them a communal but I doubt I will.

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## Kodi (Sep 20, 2016)

I finally observed some of them eating. They refuse to come out of their hide to feed though.


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## Najakeeper (Sep 20, 2016)

Cool!

I was expecting this guy to mature this time around. Kinda sucks but I need to wait more...

Or maybe he did. I gotta check the palps.

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## Kodi (Sep 20, 2016)

Najakeeper said:


> Cool!
> 
> I was expecting this guy to mature this time around. Kinda sucks but I need to wait more...
> 
> Or maybe he did. I gotta check the palps.


He is gorgeous. His carapace doesn't look dark enough to be mature.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Najakeeper (Sep 20, 2016)

Kodi said:


> He is gorgeous. His carapace doesn't look dark enough to be mature.


Yeah, that's what I thought...

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kodi (Sep 20, 2016)

Najakeeper said:


> Yeah, that's what I thought...


I'm pretty impatient. Sorry for your extended wait haha.


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## Najakeeper (Sep 20, 2016)

Kodi said:


> I'm pretty impatient. Sorry for your extended wait haha.


There are a lot of mature males in the market these days. If I cannot stand the wait, I can snag one for €20 .

Reactions: Agree 1


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## vancwa (Sep 20, 2016)

Najakeeper said:


> There are a lot of mature males in the market these days. If I cannot stand the wait, I can snag one for €20 .


I thought the males are all blue?


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## Kodi (Sep 20, 2016)

vancwa said:


> I thought the males are all blue?


The difference between male and females is the males having a blue carapace.


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## Toxoderidae (Sep 20, 2016)

@14pokies I used to have two albino T. sinensis I found hanging out with some bats in WI. I'll ask my mom as see if she still has some pictures. They were pretty awesome, but weaker than an average T. sinensis.


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## 14pokies (Sep 20, 2016)

Toxoderidae said:


> @14pokies I used to have two albino T. sinensis I found hanging out with some bats in WI. I'll ask my mom as see if she still has some pictures. They were pretty awesome, but weaker than an average T. sinensis.


That would be awesome man! Thanks


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## Toxoderidae (Sep 20, 2016)

14pokies said:


> That would be awesome man! Thanks


Yeah! It was a little nymph (who didn't make it) and an adult female I released. I wonder if her offspring's offspring's offspring's (so on) are still around. (this was back in '09 I believe)


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## 14pokies (Sep 20, 2016)

Toxoderidae said:


> Yeah! It was a little nymph (who didn't make it) and an adult female I released. I wonder if her offspring's offspring's offspring's (so on) are still around. (this was back in '09 I believe)


Could be.. It would make an interesting breeding project if you could find some.. Hopefully you get some Hets and if the odd gods are on your side hit on some albinos!


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## Toxoderidae (Sep 20, 2016)

14pokies said:


> Could be.. It would make an interesting breeding project if you could find some.. Hopefully you get some Hets and if the odd gods are on your side hit on some albinos!


Perhaps! P. paradoxa has some really interesting color morphs, with green, gold, black, brown, gold and brown, and so on.

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## Kodi (Sep 21, 2016)

Kodi said:


> Well can you guess what's going in my extra enclosure now?


4 N. incei slings communal. They are so much more stunning in person.






Oh and they teleport.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Kodi (Sep 21, 2016)

These guys are impressive. They immediately started webbing little hides and they're taking down crickets their size right now. The perfect T for an impatient person.


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## Bread (Sep 25, 2016)

So Kodi, I've got my little guys in a small 1ft enclosure at present, they will need moving in the next 4-6weeks.
Would you recommend banging them in the smaller 2ftx1ftx1ft tank i have or straight into the a huge one i picked up 2 days ago (5ftx2ftx1.5ft got it free too  )


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## Kodi (Sep 25, 2016)

Bread said:


> So Kodi, I've got my little guys in a small 1ft enclosure at present, they will need moving in the next 4-6weeks.
> Would you recommend banging them in the smaller 2ftx1ftx1ft tank i have or straight into the a huge one i picked up 2 days ago (5ftx2ftx1.5ft got it free too  )


It's completely up to you. I feel as if I wouldn't be able to observe the little guys and easily feed them in such a big tank so I would probably start in the small one.
Oh and absolutely don't forget to post pictures.


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## Bread (Sep 25, 2016)

That was my worry not being able to see them, I was wondering how easy it would be to rehouse a bunch of rampant juveniles though 

I ran out of small crickets thursday too, so i beheaded a large morio worm and it was like a balfouri production line, they were all lined up chowing down on it.


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## _scorpio_ (Sep 30, 2016)

Bread said:


> That was my worry not being able to see them, I was wondering how easy it would be to rehouse a bunch of rampant juveniles though
> 
> I ran out of small crickets thursday too, so i beheaded a large morio worm and it was like a balfouri production line, they were all lined up chowing down on it.


Sorry to go slightly off topic here, but where did you find 15 balfouri in the UK without paying £300 for them all? I would love to start a colony but at £20 a sling (TSS) its a bit out of my budget.


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## Bread (Sep 30, 2016)

A fellow on facecrap called 'Garry Mcgeown' he has a colony of his own and they were from that. I recommend him, I think he does them for a tenner each inc next day post.

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## Trenor (Oct 5, 2016)

How's your M.balfouri communal doing? 

Both of mine are doing pretty good. I got some great molting photos from the 3 group communal the other day.

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## Bread (Oct 5, 2016)

My little guys trying to share some prey and a pic of there current house.



Spoiler












[YOUTUBE]



[/YOUTUBE]

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## Kodi (Oct 10, 2016)

My crew are recluses. I drop a cricket or two in every day or two and they disappear into their burrow overnight. This is the most I see of them. 


Oh and they won't take meal worms.

Some of them seem to have been through two instars already. I've only had them for 3 weeks!

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## 14pokies (Oct 10, 2016)

Kodi said:


> My crew are recluses. I drop a cricket or two in every day or two and they disappear into their burrow overnight. This is the most I see of them.
> View attachment 222237
> 
> Oh and they won't take meal worms.
> View attachment 222238


This is so strange to me.. I see my balfouri atleast 2-3 times a day.. He is always out webbing,tearing down web, re webbing what he tore down ,adding secondary holes filing them up adding more holes..
 His appetite is amazing he will eat 3-4 med crickets a week.. He slowly creeps out of his burrow to nail them and then drags them into his abyss to eat..  I love my balfouri I wish I started keeping them years ago!

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## Kodi (Oct 10, 2016)

14pokies said:


> This is so strange to me.. I see my balfouri atleast 2-3 times a day.. He is always out webbing,tearing down web, re webbing what he tore down ,adding secondary holes filing them up adding more holes..
> His appetite is amazing he will eat 3-4 med crickets a week.. He slowly creeps out of his burrow to nail them and then drags them into his abyss to eat..  I love my balfouri I wish I started keeping them years ago!


Yeah I don't know. Maybe the bark halfway in the sub encouraged them to dig down like that? I read that balfouri in communals were more active and less skittish, but that's not the case with my bunch.


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## 14pokies (Oct 10, 2016)

Kodi said:


> Yeah I don't know. Maybe the bark halfway in the sub encouraged them to dig down like that? I read that balfouri in communals were more active and less skittish, but that's not the case with my bunch.


I don't know mine is about 2 1/2 inches and has about 6 inches of sub.. His burrow extends to the bottom of his enclosure and he still comes out to show off.. 
I got him at about 1-1/2 inch so maybe they are more reclusive when they are small like yours..

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## LuiziBee (Oct 11, 2016)

I've got a pair of balfouri together that have been that way since 2012 or so. I have one who is about an inch larger than those two that is female. I know at least one in my "communal" is female, and the other unsexed. Very unfortunate I'm not sure which is which. I'm hoping the unsexed one is male, as my separate larger of the three  recently matured. Gonna go true communal once I can pair her. So. Excited.

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## Bread (Oct 11, 2016)

During the day my bunch hide the odd set of legs or a spidey butt poking out, but on a night at least 7 or 8 will be out on the web.


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## Trenor (Oct 11, 2016)

When my M.bafouri were really small (sub inch) they hid a lot I saw them come out to feed and that was it. The newer communal is just getting over an inch and I see them a few times a week in their webbing. My older communal Ts are 2.5-3 inches I see them daily. They all still live together in the same bundle of web though they are rapidly expanding the webbing to the rest of the enclosure.

I was able to confirm that there haven't been any losses in either communal and they are all roughly the same size.

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## louise f (Oct 11, 2016)

My 5 Balfies are out every day, webbing and biting in their enclosures

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## Kodi (Oct 22, 2016)

I sold most of my communal so I should be down to 5, but after moving their hide to collect the final order I could only see 4 . I got some pretty cool molt pictures though!


Boy are they adorable. I can't wait for those colors.

Edit: Found the 5th one. Phew.

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## Bread (Oct 28, 2016)

My guys are growing so I've been working on the new house  140cmx50cmx70cm, I tried to make my own lid from perspex but my cheapo jigsaw has no speed control so just melted it.
In the end I found a guy on ebay who laser cuts the stuff, did me a 1415mmx515mm piece for £18 inc post!!! I just need to drill some ventilation in it now.

The issue I have now is substrate, in the below pic I've already used 5 bricks of coir, I think Ill just buy 5-6 bags of ecoearth and mix it with the 10kg bag of 2mm aquarium sand (if you can call sand that big sand) I have.

I'm wondering if I should make a progress thread for it, post updates as the little guys grow up and make more little guys (or has that been done to heck?)

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## Kodi (Nov 5, 2016)

I caught a wanderer. They're about 1" dls now and they are very often strolling around the enclosure.

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## Jones0911 (Oct 6, 2017)

How are these balfouri doing???

I'd like an update if one is available.


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