# Yellow sac spider.



## straight8 (Apr 27, 2009)

Summer of 2004.


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## Tapahtyn (Apr 28, 2009)

im sorry to say I find those in my house, and they DO give me the creeps. YUK  They are  somewhat poisonous am I right?


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## loxoscelesfear (Apr 28, 2009)

i have heard their bite can cause a painful sore.  but i have also heard that they are scapegoated for bite cases where the true identity of the culprit is not known.


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## kalvaer (Apr 28, 2009)

If they have the same bite as the South African species, then it can be pretty sore.

Photos from http://www.biodiversityexplorer.org/arachnids/spiders/bites.htm 
Sac spider bite:
http://www.biodiversityexplorer.org/arachnids/spiders/images/bite9.jpg

Bite at 3 days: 
http://www.biodiversityexplorer.org/arachnids/spiders/images/bite7.jpg

Bite at 6 weeks: 
http://www.biodiversityexplorer.org/arachnids/spiders/images/bite6.jpg


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## GiantVinegaroon (Apr 28, 2009)

Buffchick said:


> im sorry to say I find those in my house, and they DO give me the creeps. YUK  They are  somewhat poisonous am I right?


all spiders are venomous.  i just know these guys like to bite.

i found one of them in my bug pinning box the other day!  i fed her a dead mantis nymph i found and watched her eat under a microscope.  it was AMAZING


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## Widowman10 (Apr 28, 2009)

they are said to have a necrosis type venom. similar to a recluse but not as bad. one i probably wouldn't have bite me on purpose.


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## GartenSpinnen (Apr 28, 2009)

Ive been bit on my back several times when a specimen fell down my shirt while i was on the computer last year. I have several scars from it, which wont seem to go away. The bite is not 'that' bad though. It hurts, and causes a painful red bump, that goes away slowly in a couple of weeks, then leaves this dark red looking area that doesn't seem to go away. 

I kill them whenever i see them, but i am not that worried about getting bit by them anymore. It is not nearly as bad as those picture shown. When i got bit i also got some stomach discomfort like a really mild case of the flu, but i cannot say for sure if it was because of the bite or not. The scars are from the bites, i am certain of that. Each bite had 2 little puncture holes and i found the spider in my shirt after i felt the bites, then i killed the little bastard. 

Like i said though, nothin too horrible. Definately not anything close to a recluse.


EDIT- Come to think of it, that 2nd picture down looks identical to how my bites looked, but much much smaller. Maybe like 1/50th of the size of the one shown. You get this red nasty looking welt with a white center. It looks like a really disgusting infected zit, and hurts. Then when it goes away you are left with a spot that is the reddish color, like a scar.

-Nate


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## Widowman10 (Apr 28, 2009)

jade, MI is where i ran across all the C. inclusum i saw. is this where you came in contact with them also?


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## burmish101 (Apr 28, 2009)

There are tons of them over here, pretty sure my mom was bitten by one a few weeks ago and she got paranoid thinking a widow got out, my parents are hypocondriacs i swear! I caught one earlier on the wall and it wouldnt stop running in its vial. I came back a few hours later and it finally settled down so I picked up the vial to get a better look at it, and off it went running again. These things have soo much energy.


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## Ritzman (Apr 28, 2009)

I see them here all the time. I just had one on my fridge the other day.


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## Tapahtyn (Apr 29, 2009)

Widowman10 said:


> they are said to have a necrosis type venom. similar to a recluse but not as bad. one i probably wouldn't have bite me on purpose.


Ok, yes I know all spiders have venom, but that's good to know.  Everything I've read on them is something I definately don't want to bite me.  I love my T's and jumping spiders


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## Bastian Drolshagen (Apr 29, 2009)

hi,


ScottySalticid said:


> all spiders are venomous.


That´s wrong. Not ALL spiders are venomous


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## Dreamslave (Apr 29, 2009)

This species is Cheiracanthium mildei and their venom is similar to recluses but many times ''weaker''. Pretty speedy spiders too. They only bite when they feel trapped.


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## jsloan (Apr 29, 2009)

Dreamslave said:


> This species is Cheiracanthium mildei


How did you determine that?


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## Dreamslave (Apr 29, 2009)

Easy, I have been around this species for a long time and read A LOT about them and even if the pics are fairly small and average quality i'm still 100% sure its c.mildei. Also you can find them almost everywhere in the US and Europe. Only chance i am wrong is if staright8 lives somewhere else than the 2 continents mentioned above!


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## jsloan (Apr 30, 2009)

Dreamslave said:


> Easy, I have been around this species for a long time and read A LOT about them and even if the pics are fairly small and average quality i'm still 100% sure its c.mildei. Also you can find them almost everywhere in the US and Europe. Only chance i am wrong is if staright8 lives somewhere else than the 2 continents mentioned above!


There are so many spiders that look similar to this one, yet aren't even the same family.  What specific characteristics did you use to single out this one species (or even the genus)?  If all I was looking at were small, fuzzy pictures I wouldn't be able to tell many of the spiders in these links apart:

http://www.canadianarachnology.org/data/canada_spiders/ImageFamilies.asp?Family=10

http://www.canadianarachnology.org/data/canada_spiders/ImageFamilies.asp?Family=35


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## Bastian Drolshagen (Apr 30, 2009)

hi,


Dreamslave said:


> Also you can find them almost everywhere in the US and Europe.


Until today I never found this species here, only C. erraticum and C. punctorium. Afaik C. mildei is not that common here in Europe.
Apart from that I wouldn´t even be able to see the difference between C. punctorium and C. erraticum from those pictures, and I found both species in the wild + examined preserved specimen of both.


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## Venom (Apr 30, 2009)

Hmmmm, not quite, Dreamslave. The native North American species found almost ubiquitously is C. inclusum, not C. mildei ( an introduced species from Europe ). The native inclusum is more toxic than the mildei ( lucky us... ), and has the vivid lemon yellow colouration now associated with the "yellow" sac spider. C. mildei exhibits a much more drab tone overall, with more spotting on the dorsal abdomen and a more prominent stripe on the anterior dorsal abdomen. C. mildei is not nearly as common in the United States and Canada as is the C. inclusum. The spider in these photos is C. inclusum.

ALL Cheiracanthium spp. are cytotoxic, and capable of producing ulcurating sores in humans. The typical manifestation is a very swollen and reddened bump, which may blister. This is typically very sensitive to touch, and stings intensely. Additionally, systemic nausea, chills, and slight fever may be involved (I have seen this in a number of cases, including one case in my own household ).


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## Dreamslave (Apr 30, 2009)

Well thanks for the info/correction Venom. At least i had the genus right! 
Now that i think about it, its true that the c.mildei has a more drab coloration! I found another one wandering in my bedroom so i took a close look at the coloration.


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## jsloan (Apr 30, 2009)

I would question even the genus without better pictures.  _Cheiracanthium_ is only a possibility at this point; a good possibility, yes, but not certain without better information (which no one has given).


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## Dreamslave (Apr 30, 2009)

I spend a lot of time on bugguide.net and don't know of any other species that looks like Cheiracanthium. Some look similar but still visibly different. You have any examples?


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## jsloan (Apr 30, 2009)

Dreamslave said:


> I spend a lot of time on bugguide.net and don't know of any other species that looks like Cheiracanthium. Some look similar but still visibly different. You have any examples?


A couple of _Clubiona_ (Clubionidae):

http://bugguide.net/node/view/35821/bgimage

The comments on that page mention the difficulties in IDing some of these spiders from photos.

http://bugguide.net/node/view/75804/bgimage

That said, the discernable features I see in the pictures of this thread that suggest to me (but don't 100% confirm) the genus _Cheiracanthium_ are coloring, longish legs, and possible large claw tufts.  So, yes, _Cheiracanthium_ cannot be ruled out as a possibility.  It may very well be what it is.


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## buthus (Apr 30, 2009)

Venom said:


> ALL Cheiracanthium spp. are cytotoxic, and capable of producing ulcurating sores in humans. The typical manifestation is a very swollen and reddened bump, which may blister. This is typically very sensitive to touch, and stings intensely. Additionally, systemic nausea, chills, and slight fever may be involved (I have seen this in a number of cases, including one case in my own household ).


Gotta ask... what evidence do you need to consider it a *confirmed* bite?

Ive had these on me, played around with them, grab em when I see em..so on, etc... except for smushin' down and/or just being a total jerk to one, ive had tons of exposure/contact and to the best of my knowledge, have never been tagged by one. 

These are very interesting spiders.  Because they can live in very dry household conditions and readily fill that tough little niche, I gotta believe them to be FAR more beneficial then given credit for.  
I bet theres thousands of homes chuck full of these of which the occupants have never had a problematic wound to *blame* them for.


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## Dreamslave (Apr 30, 2009)

You are totally right about them buthus, they are very beneficial to bug control in a house and they only bite when they feel trapped.


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## Venom (Apr 30, 2009)

I once caught a tiny little C. inclusum, that was wandering about my house. By caught, I mean that I allowed it to walk freely over my hand. I thought it looked a little dehydrated, so I placed a droplet of water on my hand a little ways in front of the spider. It took a sip, and then promptly bit me, unprovoked except for it being on my hand. It stung a little, and formed a slight bump. This was a 1/4 inch spider.

A confirmed bite? Well, first I'd want to know if anybody saw a spider...and secondly, I'd take a look at the bite itself. I HAVE given positive ID's on evidence of the bite alone, but I always inquire as to how the bite /  "bite" occurred/ began. I need a plausible envenomation scenario. For instance, I ID'd, on another site, a C.inclusum bite to a lady who had been fiddling around in her closet when she felt a sharp stinging pain. She never saw a spider, but had good pictures of the wound to her finger. It was intensely swollen and purple, with a watery blister at the center, and was extremely sensitive to the touch. Important also, was the concurrence of a slight "flu-ish" feeling, queasiness and chills ( slight, but still there...). 

The wound was typical of C. inclusum envenomation, and there was a plausible bite scenario: she was messing about in her closet, hands deep in clothes. A sac spider was probably residing in there, and bit when it felt threatened by her groping hands, which afterward bore perfect C.inclusum symptoms. A few weeks later, this recurred, to her hand again, only in a different location. The symptoms were identical as last time, only the blister was more prominent. 

So, a checklist for C.inclusum envenomation ID'ing, here's what I look for:

Spider seen? (not necessary )

Likely spider encounter scenario: indoors/ outdoors, doing what, where, when? (important)

Bite -- swollen, red/purple color, blister, stinging pain, intense/ immediate onset, pustule, sensitivity to touch, discoloration extending away from the immediate bite location.

Systemic --chills, nausea, fever.

As to geographic location, Cheiracanthium is essentially a world-wide genus, and all members are toxic. Sac spider bites can easily distinguished from recluse spider bites, and the scenario evaluation separates wasp/ bee stings from spider bites, since these generally will occur in totally different situations ( not too many bees in closets...especially with the other symptoms produced ). Cheiracanthium is considered both the #1 cause of noticeable indoors spider bites, and the most defensive of the medically significant spiders in North America. It also overwinters in human habitations, where it survives quite well. Bite frequency is elevated in spring and fall, when the spiders are coming out from hibernation, or coming indoors for it.


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## Dreamslave (Apr 30, 2009)

Wow great info Venom! Thanks!


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## Tarantula_Hawk (May 1, 2009)

jsloan said:


> I would question even the genus without better pictures.  _Cheiracanthium_ is only a possibility at this point; a good possibility, yes, but not certain without better information (which no one has given).


Have to disagree with you here. Leg I being longer than leg IV immediately tells us the spider belongs to Miturgidae and not Clubionidae. From the _Clubiona _pics u posted it is clear that leg IV is longer than leg I, ruling out the possibility of it being a Miturgidae. 
Therefore, having said this, i'm 100% sure this is a Miturgidae, most probably a _Cheiracanthium_ sp. I wouldnt go into the species since its impossible to ID different _Cheiracanthium _species without a very close inspection of the epigyne/pedipalp. Heck, we dont even know the size.
So i'd just stop at _Cheiracanthium _sp.


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## jsloan (May 1, 2009)

Tarantula_Hawk said:


> Have to disagree with you here. Leg I being longer than leg IV immediately tells us the spider belongs to Miturgidae and not Clubionidae. From the _Clubiona _pics u posted it is clear that leg IV is longer than leg I, ruling out the possibility of it being a Miturgidae.
> Therefore, having said this, i'm 100% sure this is a Miturgidae, most probably a _Cheiracanthium_ sp. I wouldnt go into the species since its impossible to ID different _Cheiracanthium _species without a very close inspection of the epigyne/pedipalp. Heck, we dont even know the size.
> So i'd just stop at _Cheiracanthium _sp.


Yes, at this point I am forced to agree with you.  Thanks for the specifics.  That was the kind of information I was looking for.


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## Tarantula_Hawk (May 1, 2009)

No problem, anytime


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## GiantVinegaroon (May 1, 2009)

Bastian Drolshagen said:


> hi,
> 
> 
> That´s wrong. Not ALL spiders are venomous


graaah you are correct there's one family that isn't i forgot.  thanks bud


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## ZergFront (May 29, 2009)

*Wow..*

... and to think I let some of these crawl on my arm in the garden. Yikes! Up side is they are so easy to tell male from female. The males' "clubs" are huge in these!

 Sac spiders and ghost spiders seem to really love hanging out on my giant collard plants. Probably to catch the little bees and flies. ^_^


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## straight8 (Aug 6, 2009)

Dreamslave said:


> Easy, I have been around this species for a long time and read A LOT about them and even if the pics are fairly small and average quality i'm still 100% sure its c.mildei. Also you can find them almost everywhere in the US and Europe. Only chance i am wrong is if staright8 lives somewhere else than the 2 continents mentioned above!


I live in Toledo, Ohio.


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## cacoseraph (Aug 6, 2009)

ScottySalticid said:


> graaah you are correct there's one family that isn't i forgot.  thanks bud


two

one true and one ancient


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## chris_vegas (Aug 7, 2009)

got bit by one a couple of months ago, was taking a piss late at night...no shirt on, little bastard dropped down from the ceiling...I went to swipe and got taggged on left side of stomach. Got a decent sized red bump kinda looked a bit like a wierd pimple, was VERY itchy and I could see the capililaries inflamed or something radiating out from the pimple....it eventualy went kinda like a burst blister and went away, but left a little bit of scar. The actual bite didn't really hurt. I did have pretty bad allergy like symptoms the next day, but I have allergies anyway...so who knows. Wish I'd taken pictures of the wound now lol


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## cacoseraph (Aug 7, 2009)

oh, i reinstate my pervious offer:


anyone want to send me sac spiders to venom test?  you have to pay shipping though, as i am broke as a bad joke right now


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## buthus (Aug 7, 2009)

cacoseraph said:


> oh, i reinstate my pervious offer:
> 
> 
> anyone want to send me sac spiders to venom test?  you have to pay shipping though, as i am broke as a bad joke right now


Thats funny...cause I woke up today having a dream about getting tagged by one of my sicarius.  Dreamlike surreal results...nevertheless, a vivid dream.  

Andrew, I believe i run into both species yer talkin about ...though, mostly the lighter/tannish one  ...thing is, I cant ever seem to find any when actually hunting for them.  ...hmm.. "ghost spiders"   

Venom... sorry, I missed yer response post...here...way back.


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## jsloan (Aug 7, 2009)

cacoseraph said:


> anyone want to send me sac spiders to venom test?


How do you plan to test it?


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## buthus (Aug 7, 2009)

jsloan said:


> How do you plan to test it?


  ... ... he'll pss a few off tell one tags him.  ..then he'll openly ponder his situation.


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## pavel (Aug 7, 2009)

Hmmm, surprised folks have been bitten by these ... I've caught them many times (by hand) indoors and have never been tagged.  I must have happened upon the mellow ones.


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## cacoseraph (Aug 8, 2009)

pavel said:


> Hmmm, surprised folks have been bitten by these ... I've caught them many times (by hand) indoors and have never been tagged.  I must have happened upon the mellow ones.


all the ones i have caught were mellow too.  quick, but not inclined to bite. even Seven Yellow Lightning Bolts... who didn't bite even when one of his legs got removed by accident =P


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## mirokudark69 (Sep 18, 2010)

*lol*

I've play with spiders all the time much to my mothers dismay, and i can say i know what that its this spider because just had one over my head 10 min ago, i've been bitten several times by this type of spider and i never had anything more than the bite marks and a mosquito bite like bump, nothing to be afraid of.


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## Terry D (Sep 18, 2010)

Ive play alot with spiders and then my mom she get real mad and make me step on them then i run around in cirkles to make sure the poison do not afekt me like i dont know but ive heard you can some times know that is what happned by that way


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## YellowSacVictim (May 25, 2013)

Hello, i live in NJ, i've been having very serious and bizarre issues with yellow sac spiders since I moved into a house in October, I've now exhausted many options for getting help and I don't know where else to ask questions, if you feel you can help please respond, thank you.


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## Tarantula155 (May 25, 2013)

pavel said:


> Hmmm, surprised folks have been bitten by these ... I've caught them many times (by hand) indoors and have never been tagged.  I must have happened upon the mellow ones.


I have one female yellow sac spider that will happily bite your finger, she attacks my pen like prey too. I guess every individual spider has their own personality. I'd say all the other yellow sac spiders I've caught are not even remotely aggressive but this individual is bad to the bone.

Also the bite was pathetic. I barely could feel it, a tiny sting. After no swelling, no red marks, nothing. I have kept many yellow sac spiders before, they are some of my favorite species of spiders.


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## Ciphor (May 27, 2013)

YellowSacVictim said:


> Hello, i live in NJ, i've been having very serious and bizarre issues with yellow sac spiders since I moved into a house in October, I've now exhausted many options for getting help and I don't know where else to ask questions, if you feel you can help please respond, thank you.


Already told you a psychologist is your best bet bud. You have some deep seeded issues that need talked out.


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## Tarantula155 (May 27, 2013)

Ciphor said:


> Already told you a psychologist is your best bet bud. You have some deep seeded issues that need talked out.


:laugh::laugh:


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