# AGB's



## wastedwoodsman (Apr 25, 2014)

About a year ago I purchased a pair of AGB millipedes. (Titan and Nessie) Just recently I noticed at least 3 small babies and today I noticed one fairly large baby in my tank.(at least 3 or 4 times bigger than the ones I saw first) I am very interested in possibly getting my hands on a couple more young AGB's to add in with my babies in hopes of adding in some new genes. I will post pictures at a later time but was hoping if anyone could tell me where I might find a couple of reasonable priced babies? Thanks in advance!

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## Cavedweller (Apr 26, 2014)

Congrats on your plings! A lot of people are trying to find AGB plings for sale right now with no luck.


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## wastedwoodsman (Apr 26, 2014)

Yea, so i have noticed. I counted at least 3 small pedelings in my tank a couple weeks ago and just saw a huge "baby" that would have had to have been many months older... maybe? 

Here's the biggest baby spotted in my tank as of a couple days ago!



Close up of the smaller pedeling



Smaller pedeling compared to plastic spoon.

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## wastedwoodsman (May 14, 2014)

Another baby found today. I think this is number 6 or possibly number 8. I am 100% confident i have at least seen 5 babies now! I just hope i can find even more in my tank soon! :laugh: So far these little guys seem to be ninjas!


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## Gibson211 (May 14, 2014)

Grats on your breeding. Ken the bug guy has been getting them in lately, they go fast but he gets more really quick. I would check his website often. He has females up for sale right now.


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## SDCPs (May 15, 2014)

Could you give us details on your setup?


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## wastedwoodsman (May 15, 2014)

Gibson211 said:


> Grats on your breeding. Ken the bug guy has been getting them in lately, they go fast but he gets more really quick. I would check his website often. He has females up for sale right now.


Yea i have a huge female right now her name is Nessie and she's over 10inches long! She had a mate but he died a few weeks after mating like 10 times... lol The results were these lovely little babies. She gets upset when i remove them from the tank  She starts climbing up the glass as if to say, "where you taking my babies lady come back here!" As for setup details I will have to post pictures of the 2 tanks i have set up currently. 1 in which i breed and 2 which i move the little ones into so i know how many i have.  I run them around 80% humidity at all times at about 75 degrees F. I haven't changed the substrate since the second month i got them so pretty much the same substrate that i had about a year ago? I made the mistake of changing it 2 months after i got them and i killed the first batch of eggs and my female flameleg millipede! x.x I basically put them in my old aquarium with 4 inches of substrate and left them alone feeding them veggies everyday and voila eggs after the 2nd month! Which is why i thought it weird people were having issues breeding them? What other details did you want to know SDCP's? I will answer best i can if you provide me with the specific parts of information you want to know.


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## mukmewx (May 15, 2014)

That's so awesome!  Ive wanted one for so long just happen to be broke right now when I could buy one from ken! Maybe one day you can sell?


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## wastedwoodsman (May 15, 2014)

Yea I am either going to try to get another millipede when these are big enough and begin a breeding colony or i will sell them. I'd like to use them as breeding stock because they were bred from really good stock originally. But if i can't manage to get new genes for the gene pool i will end up selling them.

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## SDCPs (May 15, 2014)

wastedwoodsman said:


> Yea i have a huge female right now her name is Nessie and she's over 10inches long! She had a mate but he died a few weeks after mating like 10 times... lol The results were these lovely little babies. She gets upset when i remove them from the tank  She starts climbing up the glass as if to say, "where you taking my babies lady come back here!" As for setup details I will have to post pictures of the 2 tanks i have set up currently. 1 in which i breed and 2 which i move the little ones into so i know how many i have.  I run them around 80% humidity at all times at about 75 degrees F. I haven't changed the substrate since the second month i got them so pretty much the same substrate that i had about a year ago? I made the mistake of changing it 2 months after i got them and i killed the first batch of eggs and my female flameleg millipede! x.x I basically put them in my old aquarium with 4 inches of substrate and left them alone feeding them veggies everyday and voila eggs after the 2nd month! Which is why i thought it weird people were having issues breeding them? What other details did you want to know SDCP's? I will answer best i can if you provide me with the specific parts of information you want to know.





wastedwoodsman said:


> Yea I am either going to try to get another millipede when these are big enough and begin a breeding colony or i will sell them. I'd like to use them as breeding stock because they were bred from really good stock originally. But if i can't manage to get new genes for the gene pool i will end up selling them.


What size were the aquariums? I suppose the most important question is, what exactly is your substrate made of? Thank you for your response. I am not trying to breed these but the more success stories and details we have, the better!

Why would you sell them? Just keep them and breed them again. New genes really aren't that important...what's important is that we get a strain that breeds easily in the hobby. Maybe you can develop one! After all, this is not a conservation effort. They're fine in the wild, and we could import more (or the Europeans could) for a conservation effort. We just need to keep these going in the US.


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## wastedwoodsman (May 16, 2014)

SDCPs said:


> What size were the aquariums? I suppose the most important question is, what exactly is your substrate made of? Thank you for your response. I am not trying to breed these but the more success stories and details we have, the better!
> 
> Why would you sell them? Just keep them and breed them again. New genes really aren't that important...what's important is that we get a strain that breeds easily in the hobby. Maybe you can develop one! After all, this is not a conservation effort. They're fine in the wild, and we could import more (or the Europeans could) for a conservation effort. We just need to keep these going in the US.


Well my tank is currently 29 Gallons and my substrate is cocofiber, sphagnum peat moss, calcium sand, ground up cuttlefish bone, aspen snake bedding, oak leaves, and 100% natural hickory chips (from the hardware store back by the grills!) They love it. I like to keep in mind that the richer the substrate the better chance you have at breeding because my millipedes are often seen eating the substrate specially before laying the eggs! So i provide food fresh every day such as cucumbers, zucchini, and carrots which are their favorites. Also from time to time i offer them apples (the red ones). I also put a vine from petco in the tank and a brick submerged in the substrate with a clear pitcher for a hidey hole. They love it! This gives them areas in which to "dry" their feet because i noticed they weren't very happy with all dirt because they were getting limb rot. Also a key trick is to keep the environment constant. I always keep them at 75 degrees and 80% humidity and they are always active (especially during the day). I started with 6 inches of substrate but as they began eating it and tunneling in it its currently 4 inches deep and i am still finding babies! Also the genes do tend to matter in my opinion because I once bred (brothers and sisters) with each other and they for some weird reason had weird looking segments. They weren't evenly shaped and were more "crunched" up. I don't know if this was just a fluke or if it was a user error but none of the 3 babies survived.  Once bred with new genes the babies came out like they were supposed to and are still living now! Hope this helps!

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## shebeen (May 17, 2014)

Can you tell us more about "limb rot"?  Sounds rather serious.


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## wastedwoodsman (May 17, 2014)

shebeen said:


> Can you tell us more about "limb rot"?  Sounds rather serious.


Limb rot is when the millipedes legs start to turn black and fall off because they are kept in humid conditions to long. But i couldn't get them to breed without high humidity. So i had to offer places that wasn't moist dirt for them to stand on so their legs could get a break from the consistently wet dirt I.E. the brick, vine and the glass pitcher. I will eventually get around to posting pictures of my tank set up soon!


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## Cavedweller (May 17, 2014)

I never thought to use grilling chips. The pitcher hide is such a great idea too! I'll have to try that next time I set up a pede tank. Do you bury the pitcher at the very bottom and put it up against the tank wall for viewing? I would imagine a square container would be best cause it could be placed securely against the tank bottom so you don't have to worry about crushing anyone beneath it.


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## wastedwoodsman (May 17, 2014)

Cavedweller said:


> I never thought to use grilling chips. The pitcher hide is such a great idea too! I'll have to try that next time I set up a pede tank. Do you bury the pitcher at the very bottom and put it up against the tank wall for viewing? I would imagine a square container would be best cause it could be placed securely against the tank bottom so you don't have to worry about crushing anyone beneath it.


Actually i put it in the corner just far enough away to not touch but its so light it isn't heavy enough to actually crush anyone beneath it! and its so awesome because you can see them while they escape the mists! Also, Nessie gets a little protective of it lol I think she has claimed it as her space!

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## wastedwoodsman (May 17, 2014)

As promised, here is my breeding tank. Its not much to look at... but hey it works! Also, sorry for the horrible pictures its the best i can do with the lighting and camera i have currently!

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## lagomorphette (May 20, 2014)

I'm so stoked that you've had some luck with breeding the AGBs! Keep up the good work so I can buy some from you some day!

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## SDCPs (May 30, 2014)

wastedwoodsman said:


> Limb rot is when the millipedes legs start to turn black and fall off because they are kept in humid conditions to long. But i couldn't get them to breed without high humidity. So i had to offer places that wasn't moist dirt for them to stand on so their legs could get a break from the consistently wet dirt I.E. the brick, vine and the glass pitcher. I will eventually get around to posting pictures of my tank set up soon!


I think you might have hit on the "secret."

In: Sigling, Shurá. Millipedes - Professional Breeder's Series. Frankfurt am Main (Germany): Chimaira Buchhandelsgesellschaft mbH, 2010. Print.
The author discusses having a dry period and then a wet period to induce breeding. I do not have the book anymore so I cannot quote it.

The brick idea and climbing branch are great. I know for a fact that these millipedes in their environment are subject to flooding. look at the species section of my webpage. I have a first hand account and photographs...So it would make sense that they lay their eggs after the flooding, which came after a dry period.

I strongly feel that this is the answer, that this is what we have been missing. Lets recap: moisture variation happens in their natural environment, more specifically, flooding, and there are also dry spells. To ensure the young have a chance it would make perfect sense to lay the eggs after the wet spell. Additionally, one author recommends this exact thing, and now you are stating that you couldn't get them to breed without excess moisture.

Could you elaborate, discuss the "couldn't get them to breed" part, and how soon the bred after moisture? Anything relevant.

---------- Post added 05-30-2014 at 05:45 PM ----------

You know, this is probably the case with other species also. This moisture variation business merits serious examination. I will try it on other species when I have the chance as I do not have AGBs.

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## lagomorphette (Jun 3, 2014)

*a wish granted: babies?*

I have one large adult female that I purchased from Ken in fall, 2012. This spring, I've discovered TWO additional millipedes in the tank (thus far), which I can only assume are her offspring, as I haven't added any others to the tank!  I'm guessing she was gravid when I purchased her, and she found her setup to be suitable and thus laid some eggs. Could there be any other explanation for this? 

The only other pedes I have are a male flameleg that was purchased last fall & two very tiny native MN species... They are housed together in their own container. The AGBs are in a 10 gallon tank (see third pic of Ophelia in her set up--cover is off just for the pic).

The two pics below are of the same suspected AGB baby. Any guesses as to how old they are if they are this size? 

baby? how old?


same baby being cute...


Mama Ophelia in her enclosure (she's on the far right side)...

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## wastedwoodsman (Jun 3, 2014)

I am not sure how old they are at that size but they are adorable! I have one about that same size and they could be a few months old i am guessing? I was wondering the same thing but i have only had my millipedes for a year so the babies i have at that size have to be younger than that being that i cleaned my tank the 2nd and 3rd months i had them.

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## lagomorphette (Jun 3, 2014)

Sweet! This is all good news.  All of us with AGBs should try to keep in touch. While I don't remember reading anything implicitly bad about related millipedes breeding, it probably doesn't hurt to expand the community's gene pool, right?


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## SDCPs (Jun 3, 2014)

lagomorphette said:


> baby? how old?


Of course I can only guess, but most likely at least a year. I don't have experience breeding this species, but I hear they are slow-growers. Flameleg millipedes are mature in a bit over a year...but they are extremely fast growers (so they say). I think 1.5 years old.

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## shebeen (Jun 6, 2014)

I second the 1.5 year estimate.  AGBs lay eggs between September and November (some in captivity as late as January), so your female probably laid her eggs shortly after you got her.  At 6 months, AGBs are only 3/4 inch in length; at 2 years, they're 3 to 4 inches.

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## wastedwoodsman (Jul 6, 2014)

Alright so i have officially looked at my records! (By that i mean original receipt order!) And by this i know that i bought my AGB's (Titan and Nessie) In April of 2013. More specifically I purchased them on the 9th and received them on the 12th of April, 2013. With this being said i have had them About a year and 3 months? This information will help me greatly when i am trying to figure out the age of my millipedes! Because i have one really big one in there that i was able to get pictures of last night that can't be a year old.... The first 3 months that i had my millipedes i cleaned the tank once a month but found out that it wasn't needed to clean the tank. Well on the 4th month i noticed hundreds of these tiny little mites were on the sides of Nessie and i got really freaked out and tried everything to get them off. Ultimately i ended up cleaning the whole cage and introduced springtails and hypoaspis miles (predatory mites) to the new substrate. On the 4th month when i cleaned the substrate (mind you i didn't reuse anything from previous substrates) I found what i thought looked like eggs in the soil and i later discovered them to be exactly that which ultimately lead to their sad deaths.  So on the 5th month i was a bit disheartened with my progress because 1 mysterious mites appeared and are still on nessie to this day! and 2 because i had killed my first batch of eggs. Well since the cleaning of the 5th month i have seen at least 6 babies (ALL At once on the top of the substrate) So there could be more i am not seeing. But They are all greatly varied in sizes.... One of them is HUGE for a baby. Another one is about half that size and the rest of them are smaller than an inch long still. Why is this? Anyone have any suggestions why there is such a size difference? Or how this one baby got so big in such a short time?

Here's the biggest baby in my tank that i have seen, On a side note i am fairly sure this little pede is a female! Not what i was really wanting but hey she's still adorable. Now what to name her?

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## SDCPs (Jul 8, 2014)

So by your post the 5th month was another total clean?

This means your babies are "under 10 months old" which is certainly unlikely for the large one...maybe she hitchhiked on something? In either case, congratulations! Just remember to save the old substrate for a while from now on (in emergencies ignore Crackerpants's advice on that subject ).


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## MrCrackerpants (Jul 8, 2014)

SDCPs said:


> (in emergencies ignore Crackerpants's advice on that subject ).


 :biggrin::3::3::3::3::3::3::3::3::biggrin:


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## wastedwoodsman (Jul 9, 2014)

SDCPs said:


> So by your post the 5th month was another total clean?
> 
> This means your babies are "under 10 months old" which is certainly unlikely for the large one...maybe she hitchhiked on something? In either case, congratulations! Just remember to save the old substrate for a while from now on (in emergencies ignore Crackerpants's advice on that subject ).


Yes! I cleaned all substrate the 5th month and theres no possible way she hitchhiked because i purchased everything from the pet store. I know for a fact these were not in there and i found another one about this same size in there. So i know they have been in there some time after the last tank cleaning. They look just like my Nessie. Yea i will start saving old substrate just in case. :} And thanks!


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## wastedwoodsman (Dec 2, 2014)

So I am in the process of getting my tank ready for a count. I haven't seen the babies for a few months now and am waiting to see them out and about I assume they are molting. Alive yes.... They have been eating the cabbage I placed in the tank so far but I just haven't seen them. As I see the babies emerge from the substrate I am going to be moving them into another temp tank to get them rounded up so I can clean my tank. While I was in the midst of prepping my old tank I saw a few egg shells scattered along the top of the substrate this morning so I may have more babies hiding in there somewhere.... As I round up the little ones I will try to take some photos! I have been waiting to take pictures if they'd ever come out! Look forward to keeping you guys up to date on this matter!

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## Elytra and Antenna (Dec 2, 2014)

When you say you cleaned the cage you mean you removed very bit of substrate?


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## wastedwoodsman (Dec 3, 2014)

Yes! I remove all substrate along with all climbs and hidey's and took the tank outside washed with water and soap. Cleaned means fully cleaned and the soil frozen and thrown away! I am waiting to clean it now that I spotted a couple more egg shells today too. Which is weird because I don't have any more adults in there currently as the male and female finally died awhile back. But I saw at least 2 new babies that were really small eating cabbage this morning! So what I know of I at least have at least 10 babies that I have seen at one time. For the most part I can't tell if they are the same ones I am seeing over again or different ones. But I have counted at least 10 for sure on the surface now. I haven't seen most of them for a few months either due to molting or just winter burrowing but I have seen a bunch of bite marks on food in the tank so I know they are still in there somewhere. I am going to begin collecting them as I see them too as well as getting pictures as soon as I see them again!


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## wastedwoodsman (Dec 4, 2014)

Heres a little one i found eating cabbage not long ago!


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## SDCPs (Dec 4, 2014)

Very nice!

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## wastedwoodsman (Mar 15, 2015)

I have a quick question for anyone willing to give me an answer. I am looking to clean my agb enclosure but i am afraid of disturbing the babies in the cage. I have been waiting to see them on the surface and work on plucking them out as i have no clue how many are even in the tank. I thought only 8 but for all i know there could be more than that. As the huge young pedeling showed up (yes its like 5 times bigger than the small 8 i saw) So do you think i should start digging through the tank to find the little ones or should i leave it be and continue to try to fish them out as i see them on the surface? They haven't made an appearance in a week or so. Also if i wait is there anything i can do to help lure them out faster?


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## Mister Internet (Mar 15, 2015)

I think the bigger question is "why are you cleaning the cage"? The successful breeders I've talked to never do this. Like, ever.  One of them told me RULE #1 is NEVER disturb the substrate. He had dozens/hundreds of babies! There's really no REASON to do it... if you're worried about detritus buildup or organic waste, you could always add a clean-up crew.


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## wastedwoodsman (Mar 15, 2015)

Mister Internet said:


> I think the bigger question is "why are you cleaning the cage"? The successful breeders I've talked to never do this. Like, ever.  One of them told me RULE #1 is NEVER disturb the substrate. He had dozens/hundreds of babies! There's really no REASON to do it... if you're worried about detritus buildup or organic waste, you could always add a clean-up crew.


 Oh i have a ton of springtails in there but the cocofiber is getting to be almost black in color. Isn't that usually when you clean the cage? I really dont like the idea of disturbing the substrate but i don't like how dark its getting either.


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## Mister Internet (Mar 16, 2015)

Is there standing water in the bottom, or at least visible water?  I think people generally keep millis too wet anyway, but the rot you're talking about sounds like there's been too much water collecting in the bottom...


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## wastedwoodsman (Mar 16, 2015)

Mister Internet said:


> Is there standing water in the bottom, or at least visible water?  I think people generally keep millis too wet anyway, but the rot you're talking about sounds like there's been too much water collecting in the bottom...


No water in there what so ever. I rarely mist these guys. Last time I misted them was like 2 months ago.... I keep the humidity at 80% and very rarely mist. My agbs seem to be a lot happier when I don't mist as much. And the last time I cleaned the cage was a long time ago!


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## Mister Internet (Mar 16, 2015)

Weird... I've never kept millis long enough to have the problem you're talking about but I've had several cockroach colonies going for years with coco/wood/leaf litter substrate, and I've never seen what you're describing. Accumulated milli dung maybe?
Maybe I've just talked to the wrong people, but I've gotten advice to not clean or disturb the substrate unless absolutely necessary from several people. Orin would be the one to ask on this one...


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## wastedwoodsman (Mar 16, 2015)

Yea I will have to take photos so you can see what I am talking about. But its a lot more compacted too. I made the mistake of digging my enclosure one and I killed the only female flameleg millipede I had and a nest of eggs from myagbs. After that I never dig in the substrate either. But I am dying to see how many agbs are in there.


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## wastedwoodsman (Apr 26, 2015)

Just an update! I saw 3 of my baby AGB's yesterday and WOW are they getting big.... 2 of them are still way smaller than my biggest. I finally got a chance to take pictures of my largest one and i still have no idea how she got so big compared to the rest! Anyway here she is:

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## Elytra and Antenna (Apr 27, 2015)

Mister Internet said:


> Maybe I've just talked to the wrong people, but I've gotten advice to not clean or disturb the substrate unless absolutely necessary from several people.


 If the animals are not doing well, the substrate is completely used up, or pests other than springtails are noticed, it is a good idea to set up a new cage. If a few babies get smashed in the process it's better than losing all of them a few months later.

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## SDCPs (Apr 29, 2015)

Elytra and Antenna said:


> If the animals are not doing well, the substrate is completely used up, or pests other than springtails are noticed, it is a good idea to set up a new cage. If a few babies get smashed in the process it's better than losing all of them a few months later.


Exactly! And with babies in the substrate you really can't help digging them up because they will never all be on the surface. And babies = fast substrate exhaustion = need to change substrate relatively frequently....or I should say if you have a decent number of babies...not 20 or so.

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