# Badly infested cricket shipment, what are these?



## Rayven

Hi Everyone. I need some help. I ordered crickets from Fluker and when they arrived they were BADLY infested with whatever these are. I cannot believe they send shipments out this badly infested. We all know that we get the occasional strange bug with our feeders, but this is just ridiculous. Most of the crickets were dead, plus it looked as though they sent less than half what I ordered, then on top of that, there were more of these weird beetle larvae than there were live crickets!

 I ordered 3000 1/4 inchers. The "group shot" at the bottom is the whole shipment inside a deli insect cup, (the kind we make fruit fly cultures in). They only filled it about two inches deep, I don't think 3000 crickets would have only filled it by that much. I feel scammed.

My questions are,

What are these?
Can I safely feed them to my animals? (and will they eat them or ignore them due to the fuzz?)
Will they escape and infest my house?
If this happened to you, would you make bad review complaint threads against Flukers?

Thanks in advance for your opinions.


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## flamesbane

They look like some sort of dermestid larvae, they are often used in feeder insect colonies to eat the carcasses of the dead animals.


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## paassatt

Definitely larvae from the Dermestidae family. I've never seen that many in one shipment though. Wow...


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## flamesbane

It almost makes me wonder if flukers counts the crickets by weight and just happened to be at the bottom of a bin.

Either way, contact flukers, I am sure they will make it right. Also, next time order from http://joshfrogs.com. His prices are better and his crickets come with a 72 hour guarantee.

Edit
I just noticed what you said about the review thread, contact Flukers first. It could been a mistake.


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## paassatt

flamesbane said:


> It almost makes me wonder if flukers counts the crickets by weight and just happened to be at the bottom of a bin.


Probably the most likely scenario.


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## tarantulagirl10

I have ordered from Flukers many times. These are always in there, but not usually that many. They turn into black flies of some sort.


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## paassatt

tarantulagirl10 said:


> I have ordered from flukers many times. These are always in there, but not usually that many. They turn into black flies of some sort.


Dermestid larvae become dermestid beetles, not flies.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Rayven

Yeah, the turn in to a small black beetle, there were a couple of them in there, see the first picture. I will google Dermestidae and learn about them, thanks.


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## Toogledoo

They're basically a "cleaner crew" as said above, they eat the dead crickets (or roaches or whatever). I was worried when I got a shipment of crickets with some of these in it until I found out what they were.


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## Rayven

Does anyone know if they will escape cages and start to eat my carpets and cloth items? They are in the same family as carpet beetles, right?


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## Vermis

Rayven said:


> Does anyone know if they will escape cages and start to eat my carpets and cloth items? They are in the same family as carpet beetles, right?


Not too likely, IMO.   I haven't had any chew through plastic cricket tubs yet, at least.

That is quite a lot of dermestids, and I probably wouldn't be too happy myself.  Although my own Ts get fed an occassional larva, with no apparent ill effects.


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## GiantVinegaroon

Rayven said:


> Does anyone know if they will escape cages and start to eat my carpets and cloth items? They are in the same family as carpet beetles, right?


If they can fit the adults can escape.  They fly very well.


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## Rayven

From what I can tell through a quick google, they seem to be flesh eating beetles, the kind museums use to clean skeletons. I guess that is why they infested the cricket company, they are eating dead crickets.

The bad thing is, they are considered a pest and can infest houses. I haven't heard back from Flukers yet but is is the weekend. I emailed a picture to them and asked for an explanation.


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## GiantVinegaroon

Rayven said:


> From what I can tell through a quick google, they seem to be flesh eating beetles, the kind museums use to clean skeletons. I guess that is why they infested the cricket company, they are eating dead crickets.
> 
> The bad thing is, they are considered a pest and can infest houses. I haven't heard back from Flukers yet but is is the weekend. I emailed a picture to them and asked for an explanation.


Well you can raise em yourself or freeze em.


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## Necromion

dermestid beetles are a pretty fun thing to get in your home, especially if you have any form of taxidermy, pets (they love dry cat and dog food), or are an insect collector like myself (often destroying years of work). Theys guys look like they could be Dermestes lardarius, cant tell for sure as you dont have a clear picture of the adults. I would contact flukers about the shipment, they should either refund you or give your a replacement. As for what to do with the current batch of crickets I would place them in an air tight container and stick them in the freezer immediatly as they larvae can chew into lead easily. 
link with info from penn state about species
http://ento.psu.edu/extension/factsheets/larder-beetle


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## Rayven

Thanks for the help everyone. At this point I am furious with Flukers and consider them an unethical business. When I have time I will file complaints against them, post on the BIO, and wherever else I can think of. They should be shut down. I am going to contact the authorities and find out if the health dept , agriculture dept , or whoever might oversee businesses like this should be pressed in to conducting an investigation. Someone told me that shipping pest species over state lines is a federal offense.  ( I have no idea whether that's true, but if it is, I hope they get nailed.) From the way they responded to me it is obvious they know they have an issue and they don't care.

I believe the larvae are Dermestes maculatus. I am not an expert but the pattern on the larvae looks more like this species than lard beetles. If they are maculatus it means Flukers has a filthy warehouse and the beetles are feeding on the massive amounts of dead crickets. If you decide to order from them, you may get a high DOA level if the crickets are diseased. You'll probably also get mites and who knows what else if their warehouse is filthy enough to support this amount of flesh eating beetles.

If they had responded differently and assured me that they take the issue seriously and would do an in-house inspection, I would have given them the benefit of a doubt. Once they told me to find another supplier I knew they are aware of what they are doing and don't give a crap. I now think they are a horrible company that needs to be avoided. If they are this unconcerned about shipping flesh eating beetles they are not only ripping customers off,  they are endangering our health and the environment. It may also be mail fraud.

Here are the emails that transpired between us.  (I have removed my email address and other personal data. ) When I told them that if they sent more pests I would have a responsibility to warn others, they passive aggressively told me to f-off,  and claimed they will issue a refund. I have yet to get notified of any refund. My first email was sent through their website customer service. I attached the same photo I posted here of the whole order inside the cup. 
_______________________________________________________________________________




I am very displeased with my recent order. First of all, more than half the crickets were dead, secondly there were no where near 3000, more like 1000, and thirdly there were more of these strange larvae than there were crickets! The order was badly infested. I am attaching a picture of the entire order after I placed it in a deli cup, it was only a couple inches deep in a fruit fly culture sized cup, that couldn't possibly be 3000 crickets, even at 1/4 inch size. Notice the amount of weird beetle larvae infesting the order.

I am shocked at the level of infestation. I expect a few random weird bugs with feeders but this is crazy.

What are these larvae and will they infest my house?


P2100320.JPG	P2100320.JPG
3000K   View   Download  
Help Desk help@flukerfarms.com

Feb 13 (4 days ago)

to me

These are feeder bugs that get into the feed.  I see that you had a lot of them, if you give me your order number, I will replace this order at no charge, and I will report this to the supervisor.

Thanks,

Jackie

Fluker Farms





From: Rayven
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2012 11:31 PM
To: Help@flukerfarms.com
Subject: infested order


Feb 13 (3 days ago)

to Help
Your order number is: *****
Date of order: 2/8/2012 4:16 PM



 I have determined that they are a species of Dermestidae. They are a pest species and can infest houses and cause problems. With infestation levels as high as your company seems to have, I do not believe you are unaware of what these are. The fact that you did not tell me what species they are leads me to believe you are purposely trying to hide that information.

If my replacement order contains any of these pests I may report you to the health department or whatever the appropriate organization is. If a company has an infestation but takes it seriously and makes sure no pests ship out with orders I wouldn't care, but if you are shipping pests out with orders and don't care, I have a responsibility to warn others.
Help Desk help@flukerfarms.com

Feb 13 (3 days ago)

to me

Sandra,

I will be refunding that back to your credit.  It may be best if you find another supplier.

Jackie

Fluker Farms


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## The Snark

About 2 cents. If memory serves, the Dermestes larvae only eat necrotic tissue. This strongly indicates the supplier has a serious problem with their offered items dying. The other problem is, if anyone keeps quantities of various feeder insects they too can end up with a permanent infestation. These infestations are niches in a synthesized ecosystem similar to flies around horse stables and fish farms: darned near impossible to eradicate.


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## tarantulagirl10

Wow, I can't believe this. I have ordered from them before and got these things. I thought they were something that they used on purpose to help with clean up. I had no idea. I will not be ordering from them again.


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## Protectyaaaneck

Rayven said:


> I have determined that they are a species of Dermestidae. They are a pest species and can infest houses and cause problems. With infestation levels as high as your company seems to have, I do not believe you are unaware of what these are. The fact that you did not tell me what species they are leads me to believe you are purposely trying to hide that information.
> 
> If my replacement order contains any of these pests I may report you to the health department or whatever the appropriate organization is. If a company has an infestation but takes it seriously and makes sure no pests ship out with orders I wouldn't care, but if you are shipping pests out with orders and don't care, I have a responsibility to warn others.
> Help Desk help@flukerfarms.com
> 
> Feb 13 (3 days ago)


Whoaa there, I wouldn't be so quick to write a nasty email like that.  Dermestid beetles are not an infestation.  They simply clean up all the scraps of dead crickets.  Like someone stated above, you probably just got a bottom of the barrel scoop and it just happened to contain lots of dermestid larvae.  Again, they ARE NOT and infestation.  You're not the first person that has had a dermestid larvae pop up in their crickets.  I get them every once and a while and it's no big deal.  They get flushed down the toilet!  

If you stop and think about how many crickets and sales Fluker has to deal with, you might change your attitude a bit.  I'm sure if they were constantly sending out that many dermestid larvae with every order that their business would've gone bankrupt a long time ago.  Your order was a fluke. (no pun intended) 

And for those of you that aren't aware, it wasn't too long ago that just about every major cricket supplier in the U.S. had a hard time with what people were calling the "cricket virus".  The virus would kill off almost all crickets once they got to a certain size.  Many suppliers were at a standstill until they could get their cricket farms running smoothly again.  I'm betting the overpopulation of Dermestid larva is a product of trying to clean up after so many dead crickets.  So if I were you, I'd calm down and be happy that they were going to replace your order free of charge.  Accidents happen all the time.  I'm sure your spiders can wait a few extra days for their crickets.

Reactions: Like 6


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## Rayven

I guess you didn't read the whole email thread. I am not getting an replacement shipment. They said they are refunding my money, which they still have not done. Actually, this screw up did cause me issues, I have  a bunch of slings to feed and will have to hope they don't die before crickets from someplace else get here.

 At this point, I got ripped off. I ordered 3000 crickets and some mealworms. I got a fraction of the crickets I ordered, (most were dead, and even counting the dead, there was only about a thousand total crickets), and I got at least a thousand pest beetles. I understand that some people are so used to these beetles that they think of them as "normal" in cricket shipments but they aren't. I think some of us have just become used to certain suppliers having high numbers of them. Not all suppliers do, I have been buying feeders for over thirty years and most other suppliers have cleaner crickets than this. 

 I should have ordered from one of my normal suppliers. Maybe I am so annoyed because I am annoyed at myself for being an idiot and ordering from a company I knew was crap. I used to order from Flukers years ago but used to get so many dead shipments that I stopped buying from them. I got an email a week or so ago about a twenty percent off sale and decided to give them a shot. Now I feel like a dumb*** for being gullible. I should have known better. Perhaps that is why I am so disgusted about the situation. I knew they were a bad company and like an idiot I gave them another shot anyway. Over the years I have heard more complaints about Flukers than any other feeder supplier.

 If you haven't had problems with them, I am glad for you. I hope your good luck holds out. I still feel I was right to warn others about this. I do not think they are a good company and I will stick by that opinion. I realize some people think flesh eating beetles are no big deal, but for those of us who disagree there will be a warning about Flukers out there for people to find when they google for opinions about them.


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## flamesbane

People keep these and other species, such as lesser mealworms, in feeder bins in order to help keep colonies clean and healthy. It is perfectly normal. You've very quickly gone from someone who didn't know jack about these to an expert. Flukers is not a bad company, the reason they are giving you a refund instead of shipping a new order is because you acted like a nut. They responded back with a nice email and you came off with "having to warn others" of course they aren't going to ship to you again, I sure wouldn't.

Reactions: Like 4


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## xhexdx

Lol @ flesh eating beetles:



Rayven said:


> I realize some people think flesh eating beetles are no big deal


They are decomposers.  They eat *dead and decaying animal matter*.  They're the carnivorous equivalent of isopods.

As Protectyaaaneck and flamesbane already said, they aren't an infestation and are common to find in cricket shipments.  I find them all the time in mine.  They help to manage cricket waste material.  They are _beneficial_ when managed properly.  Yep, I'm sure you got way more than you 'should' have received.  Yep, they're annoying.  Nope, Fluker's didn't really do anything wrong, and they were (in my opinion) completely within their right to deny you further business considering the brashness of your e-mail correspondence with them.  If they haven't refunded your money yet, yes, that's on them and you should certainly pursue that (in a more appropriate and less heated manner), but if I were them, I'd not do business with you either.

Calm down, take a few breaths, collect the larvae, and stick them in the freezer.  Done deal.  Good luck finding *any* cricket supplier that doesn't have a few dermestid larvae in with their shipments.


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## Introvertebrate

Just out of curiosity.  Are the larvae or the beetles decomposers?  Or both?


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## xhexdx

Both              .

Reactions: Like 1


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## jayefbe

The fact that Flukers tried to pass the larvae off as "feeder bugs that get into the feed" is pretty ridiculous. I would be annoyed if someone tried to get a fast one by me. That said....they haven't done anything wrong.

1. Is there really a large cricket supplier that DOESN'T have dermestid larvae in with their colonies? I get them when I buy crickets from the pet store. Chances are, whoever you normally buy from, has dermestid larvae just like Flukers. 

2. You did not get ripped off. They offered to replace the order free of charge. When that wasn't suitable for you, they offered a refund. That is standard business practice. They even offered to alert their supervisor about the order, implying that they would try to figure out what happened. Yes, they sent out a bad batch, but that has to happen with any company selling more than a few shipments a day. I'm sure similar things have happened with whatever company you believe "isn't crap" you've ordered from.

3. A full in-house inspection? Really? Your expectations are ridiculous, especially considering that dermestid beetles are a fact of life when it comes to cricket suppliers.

4. Flukers should be shut down? They are unethical....how? You're going to contact the agricultural department? Also, how can shipping a pest species be a federal offense when it's already everywhere. They have a WORLDWIDE DISTRIBUTION. Your claims are outlandish and without merit. 

5. Finally, there is a direct relationship between the number of complaints a company is going to receive and the amount of business they do. Flukers is THE supplier of feeder insects. Of COURSE they have the most complaints, they do the most business. I'm sure they supply a very large number of pet stores across the nation. Just stating that they have more complaints than anyone doesn't really mean anything. I've never ordered from them (nor will I) so I can't say I've had any first hand experience. But if I was in your position, I would've been mildly annoyed and taken the offer of a replacement.

You had a bad order with a company. They offered to rectify the situation in a perfectly reasonable manner and offered to refund your money. Assuming they've refunded your money, your response was completely unreasonable. If you're going to be ordering crickets, these things are just going to happen.

Also, just on a side note, you started this thread looking for advice with the possibility of posting a review later. By mentioning the suppliers name from the very beginning, it is already a review, only the company in question has not had time to respond or rectify the situation.

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