# 'White stuff' on mouth parts



## gambite (Dec 6, 2007)

I just got a new Emp, and today I noticed some 'white stuff' on its mouth. This is very odd, as it was not there yesterday, or earlier in the week. It just appeared today. Unless my other Emp pooped on her mouth, I have a bad feeling that this is fungus. Perhaps it would explain why yesterday, when I tied to feed it a cricket, it caught and killed the crick, but didnt eat it. I tried to take some pics, but my crappy webcam is all I have. How can I get this off? I am really worried about this one. If it matters, it is a female that has had babies. Dont know if it is WC or CB, though. By the way, I don think it was chewing on anything in the tank, as there is nothing in there that is white like that.

Perhaps it got something from the substrate? I recently mixed it all up when adding her in, so perhaps fungus spores that were originally in the bottom got brought up and mixed with the new substrate. 

So, how can I get this off without killing her? Or, should I say, _can_ I get this off without killing her? 

Pics:


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## ~Abyss~ (Dec 7, 2007)

Emps like to clean themselves. So here are a few things make sure he has water. That substrate looks to dry, it's gotta be moist. Use peat not wood chips.And don't worry it's probably scorpion dung. They use they're mouth part to clean them selves.


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## gambite (Dec 7, 2007)

Yeah, I noticed that the sub was getting a little dry. I watered it, at its peat moss, though it has some chunks of wood in it.


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## ~Abyss~ (Dec 7, 2007)

try the false bottom set up. I'm really busy to put a link but I'll guide you. At the top of the forum there's a FAQ section in the stickies. Go to it and it has a guide to making a false bottom set up for emps.


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## Thaedion (Dec 7, 2007)

So how long ago did she have the babies?  Could it be an old exuvium from an I1? They look like dried egg whites.

Are you able to hold her? Take a closer look at it, see if you can tell what it is. Then if you need it cleaned, just take a damp cloth and see if you can remove it.


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## Michiel (Dec 7, 2007)

Well,

I have to say it, all of your eyes are very good! I see only a blurry greenish/ whiteish mass at the mouthparts. Can you post better pictures??


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## Thaedion (Dec 7, 2007)

Michiel said:


> Well,
> 
> I have to say it, all of your eyes are very good! I see only a blurry greenish/ whiteish mass at the mouthparts. Can you post better pictures??


I can't see it either... I only gave an asumption of what it could be given the info 'he' gave.


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## EAD063 (Dec 7, 2007)

Thaedion said:


> I can't see it either... I only gave an asumption of what it could be given the info 'he' gave.


I know exactly what he is talking about.. It looks like a small brown ball of dried mush correct gambite?

I have seen this in petstores with emps before.. and also in my own collection with heterometrus when feeding a huge roach (which had convienently made it's way into the package being sent to me).  

This happens when the scorpion eats an abnormally large prey item. In my case it was the huge rouge roach, and in the petstore the scorpion was treating itself to another scorpion.  What happens (I assume), is after intaking a lot of food at one... something causes the scorpion to start to spit some of the chewed food out.  Either a reflex from it's stomach or under it's own will... I have no clue... but eventually this ball of gunk works its way out and just kind of hangs on the front of the scorpion until they scrape it off.  The length of time it stayed on the petstore specimen I cannot anwser, but this same thing lasted like a week or so with my heterometrus before I noticed it was gone.

So your anwser is probaly just up-chuck.. but you say it's white.  White could mean "a light color" to many, so I gave you my experience above.. because when the ball became dried it was a light color.  But of course if it white as in "white white"... then it could always just be dried feces.


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## Michiel (Dec 7, 2007)

Ead,

I have seen the same balls of hard cricket parts all together in a pellet. But with my T's. 
But, a simple question will shed light on the matter!

Gambite, what did you feed your scorp?


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## EAD063 (Dec 7, 2007)

Hey Michiel,

Have you seen it when the T ate a lot or has it happened on other normal occasions as well?  As I said above I was assuming what takes place, but the petsore scorpion eating another scorpion and this hetero. eating the biggest prey I've ever fed.. I had to put two and two together.


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## Frédérick (Dec 7, 2007)

any chances this could be nematodes or some kind of parasite?


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## Michiel (Dec 8, 2007)

Ead,

There might be some sense in the size criterium. My T always makes nice pellets of the large crickets she eats. these things remind me bit of owl pellets (if this the correct english word). 

Frederick,

If these would be a clutch of nematodes, it would be nasty, and it would be the time to give the scorp a free wintersport...........


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## gambite (Dec 9, 2007)

Sorry about the awful pics, all I have is a webcam, and over USB 1.1, it only runs at a low resolution.

I am not sure how long ago it had the babies, but I also have what is supposedly one if them, and I think it is a very fat 1i right now (has eaten two whole (dead)cricks while in my care). 

This one also has not eaten at all in the week+ that I have had it. Almost had it eating a crick, but I accidentally shook the tank and it got away.

I picked it up and looked close at it. The white stuff looks almost like fur. On the mouth-pincers (chela?) it is like a dried, caked on residue, but it goes around to the bottom where it is fuzzy and extends all the way down to its mouth. 

Also, this one has almost no claws on its feet. whe I picked it up, it was slipping and falling all over the place. More than half of its feet had no claws on them, and the rest had short, worn down claws. 

As I said in the first post, this appeared over-night. One day it was fine, then the next I noticed this. I havent had a chance to try wiping it off yet, will try later tonight.


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## Cyris69 (Dec 9, 2007)

Fuzzy... Sounds like mold.


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## gambite (Dec 9, 2007)

I took a closer look a few minutes ago. I think the hairs are supposed to be there, as they dont look unnatural. My other Emp has them as well. However, the white stuff is more like little crumbs or bits of caked on...something. I tried wiping it off with a moist rag. A little came off, but not much. If it is fungus, how can I get rid of it? I dont suppose they make anti-fungal cream for scorpions? Can my other Emp catch it from her somehow?


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## Cyris69 (Dec 10, 2007)

There is a possibility that it might be able to spread if it is indeed a fungus.
Try using a Q-Tip, some diluted hydrogen peroxide, first with just water to get what you can. It needs it's Chelicerae to eat, that gunk is probably rendering them useless. Also, mites sometime form large clumps around the mouth area.


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## gambite (Dec 10, 2007)

Well, I just happen to have some hydrogen peroxide around, now to find Q-tips! 

Could this cause any problem besides keeping her from eating? Like, could it be toxic to her at all? It doesnt seem to be growing much, either.


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## Cyris69 (Dec 10, 2007)

Well, I'm not sure. This was used on the upper section of an emp a while back to help remove a fungus growing on the side membranes.

You can wait for someone else to throw their two cents in just to make sure, which I would do


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## Michiel (Dec 10, 2007)

Yeah sure, put some hydrogen peroxide in it's mouth. :clap: Don't be surprised if it dies. I really sometimes ask myself if you people are using your heads. 
Offcourse, this peroxyde will have negative effects on the health of your scorpion. If you can get a bit off with water, why use something else to get the rest off? 

Sorry if I overreacted, but man.......the things you encounter on these boards here.....How does emperor poop tastes? I am new to the hobby, I hold Leiurus quinquestriatus in my hands, because I like the tention....  Gawd!


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## Cyris69 (Dec 10, 2007)

@Michiel

You aren't tactful at all, and to be quite honest it was an idea. It has been used on another thread to remove/kill fungus. If you can't get it off then it dies, if you can kill/remove the growth then there is a good chance it will live. I'd rather do what I could than nothing at all.

How does "How does emp poop taste" involve this thread. Completely off topic, and by far the most unreasonable thing compared to using peroxide to clean off fungus/mold. Oh, wait that's right! I forgot to mention after you use diluted peroxide and a Q-Tip trick, fill a jar with it and place the scorpion in there. Don't forget, shaken not stirred. Then when finished if you don't get the desired results please fill the water bowl with it. Seriously, come on...

I clearly stated: "You can wait for someone else to throw their two cents in just to make sure, which I would do."

Instead of criticizing why don't you contribute to the thread and help out?
You could have easily stated, "That's not a good idea, this is why and here is a better way to solve this." It really surprises me people even use their heads...
If you want to take this up any further please PM me.


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## Michiel (Dec 11, 2007)

Cyris,

I can only say you are right, I could have been more tactful. I get irritated sometimes, by reading the same questions over, and over and over again and the topics like "what does emperor poop tastes like". But I should not have reacted at all. It is just the same with bad TV, you don't have to watch it. I forget that sometimes. If you want me to say something constructive about the scorpion problem, I first need to see a sharp picture of the "strange mass". BTW, the fact that the scorp cannot clean itself or get rid of the mass, might indicate that there is fungus, but it should be quite easy to remove with a q-tip and plain tap water. 

Please be careful using alcohol, peroxyde and other fine chemicals, near or on your scorps........


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## Cyris69 (Dec 11, 2007)

Thank you! I appreciate it. I completely agree with your side too, that's why I no longer frequent the forum anymore. I can understand getting short over it, but I find it easier to say nothing at all than kinda loose it unless its plain asinine("How does emp poop taste"). I wouldn't have intentionally posted that if I truly thought it might have sever adverse effects other than it possibly working. 

I guess putting in on/around it's mouth does sound silly compared to its body.
Maybe a tooth pick?


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## Michiel (Dec 11, 2007)

I kinda lost it didn't I?  
I'll take your advice and try to stick to it. The last part being most difficult. 
or maybe try it with stiff or and smooth paint brushes or something or a toothbrush. 

regards,

Michiel


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## gambite (Dec 11, 2007)

If only I had $80 extra yesterday, I could have gotten a nice camera from www.woot.com. But alas, I am just a poor college student. Hell, my last paycheck was only $30. Anyway, I will work on getting better pics, and post them here. This topic can go on stand-by until then, unless anyone has any more ideas on the fungus. 

Also, it doesnt appear to be spreading or growing, at least as far as I can tell. Could this mean anything?


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## Xaranx (Dec 11, 2007)

All it needs is a good brushing with a toothbrush.


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## Michiel (Dec 12, 2007)

Yeah, ya should use Prodent


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## gambite (Dec 13, 2007)

I tried the toothbrush idea with some warm water, and it worked great! I got all but  a tiny speck off! Thanks for all the help, now I just need to get her to eat something!


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## Cyris69 (Dec 13, 2007)

Great! Get her a big juicy treat. Like a roach.


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## gambite (Dec 14, 2007)

Well, I am in the process of getting a dubia colony established. Just need to convince the parents that they arent as dirty and disgusting as they think, and that it is a lot better than cricks in the long run.


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## K3jser (Dec 15, 2007)

i have a huge dubia cultur running it works perfectly.. just watch out for flies and stuff they come easily if you dont keep the dubia's totaly dry.. i keep mine in a old aquarium with overhead light, eggtrays ( i think they called ) and nothing more. i use a plastic container filled with water then in the lid i have cut out a small hole and stuck a piece of cloth in so it works like a wig, keeps its pretty dry instead of a waterdish..


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