# Heterometrus cf. longimanus "Palawan": Is it Parthenogenetic?



## sclerite (Jul 15, 2015)

There has been a lot of reports from hobbyists in the Philippines that the most common Heterometrus species in the local trade is parthenogenetic (Google search: longimanus parthenogenetic, Result: 1,850 in 0.44seconds) And the Heterometrus article in wikipedia cited two journal as reference on the line "Some specie[sic] are parthenogenic". Curious, I started this small project to document the life cycle of Heterometrus cf. longimanus "Palawan".

So I purchased 10pcs of Palawan longimanus from a local breeder approximate birth date of June 20, 2015, he is not sure of the locality but claimed that the specimen is parthenogenetic since the parent specimen continually produces offsprings for every few months even though it is isolated. Which, most local keepers claim as well.

I have been to Palawan due to work and although I have never found any specimen, it is a common tale of the locals that they can see a lot of specimen crossing the road during rainy season. Burrows are known to extend beyond reach and large number of individuals are commonly found together under the same rock or log.

Here's the item list for the temporary enclosures
5pcs microwave-safe container (around 3L volume) - $4.38
4kg brown sand - $1.99
1bag cocopeat - $0.44
5kg potting soil - $1.11
Total - $7.92 or Php360

1 part potting soil





1 part cocopeat





1 part sand





mixed with a screw driver





and you will have something like this. I left one unmixed just to see what will they do with it.






Dimensions
















Average weight divided by 10, yet to get a gram scale though, so I guess I should get one before their next molt















so each is approximately 0.17g

Four containers has 1 each while the unmixed one has 6 in it.






Will go look for some flat rocks or barks for them to hide on

Room temperature: 25-30 degrees Celcius
Container temperature: unmeasured
Room humidity: unmeasured
Container humidity: unmeasued
Room airflow: Very good
Container airflow: Very bad / Absent, unless when opened every other day.
Condensation in container: 50-80% of top surface area
Feeding: 10pcs B.lateralis few days old nymphs every week.
Feeding on communal container: 50+ B.lateralis nymphs dump weekly.

Used:
5pcs microwave-safe container (around 3L volume) - $4.38
2kg of 4kg sand - $1.00
1bag cocopeat - $0.44
around 1/16 of 5kg potting soil - $0.07
Total - $5.89 or Php267; $1.18 or Php54 each container


Any suggestion is welcome.


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## sclerite (Aug 16, 2015)

*Updates

Aug 6 to 10, 2015 - 3 out of 6 communal individuals has molted to 3i, weight is 0.3 grams
Aug 10, 2015 - one isolated 2i has molted to 3i, weight is 0.3 grams
Room temp - 30-32 celcius daytime, 25-27 night time



Observations so far
1. most are observed to venture out in the open in any time
2. individuals in mixed substrate tends to dig shallow burrows but seems not to prefer staying on it
3. the communal individuals prefer to burrow in unmixed cocopeat than in sand
4. no signs of aggression or cannibalism yet
5. individuals are more active in the communal set-up

*Edit
2i molt length - 16.98mm (average)
-from tip of prosoma excluding chelicera to tip of metasoma near the anus

Reactions: Like 2


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## brandontmyers (Aug 16, 2015)

This is a great project. I for one am happy someone has decided to do this. This whole talk about the parthenogenic specimens has been an ordeal. Good luck with your project and keep us updated!!

Reactions: Like 1


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## sclerite (Aug 24, 2015)

*Update
decided to number the containers so I can document it better


Solo #1 - 3i, molted Aug 10, 2015
Solo #2 - 3i, molted Aug 15, 2015
Solo #3 - 2i
Solo #4 - 2i

Communal - 6pcs
two new molts at around Aug 20, 2015
5x 3i
1x 2i

I am observing more daytime activity than night time.


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## Michiel (Aug 24, 2015)

Only the instar 2 males give birth by parthenogenesis, but only when it is full moon... LOL


Good project, be sure to number the enclosures and raise them to adulthood. Then wait till they give birth. So see you in 1,5-2 years!

Reactions: Like 2


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## Scorpionluva (Aug 27, 2015)

Michiel said:


> Only the instar 2 males give birth by parthenogenesis, but only when it is full moon... LOL
> 
> 
> Good project, be sure to number the enclosures and raise them to adulthood. Then wait till they give birth. So see you in 1,5-2 years!


LOL and here I thought it was only instar 9 males could do so under a full moon  
Great project and would be nice to find out if in fact some of these species were truly Parthenogenetic


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## Scorpling (Sep 4, 2015)

I have two H. Longimanus, unsure as to if they are the Palawan strain or from some other locale. It'll be interesting to see if these are indeed parthenogenic!


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## sclerite (Dec 28, 2015)

*update
Dec. 28, 2015

everyone is fat, just waiting for them to molt to 4i, 
feeding schedule is still once a week but now switched to dumping about 4-5 B.lateralis nymphs (1-1.5cm in length) per individual instead of the newly hatched ones.

Solo #1 - 3i, molted Aug 10, 2015
Solo #2 - 3i, molted Aug 15, 2015
Solo #3 - 3i, molted Sep 02, 2015
Solo #4 - 3i, molted Aug 25, 2015

Communal - 6pcs
6x 3i
1x Aug 06, 2015
2x Aug 10, 2015
2x Aug 20, 2015
1x undated, most probably early September

weight is 0.3 grams (averaged), still yet to have a gram scale so this is definitely not accurate.

Observations
-still observing more daytime activity than night time unless disturbed
-mixed substrate seems to hold more moisture than the one that I didn't mixed
-most have burrows, and the substrate mix seems to hold very well
-the communal ones still didn't bothered to use the sandy part, they tend to just dig on or cover themselves with coco-peat or stay clumped in one corner with their claws out in the surface
-didn't misted for about a month yet the substrate is holding moisture well
-captures prey by waiting patiently on the entrance if their burrow
-communal ones sometimes chases prey and mostly shares prey item if it is captured on the burrows entrance or wherever they stayed clumped together
-the walls are covered with dirt


Thanks everyone. I have been busy for a while that I totally forgot updating this thread although I have written the measurements and dates on the container lids whenever I check them out. 

Palawan was the primary source of the H. cf. longimanus in the Philippine trade, i have confirmed this from a local poacher and also how they do it. But still the source of my scorplings did not confirmed the locality so this whole project will only answer the question "is a certain species of Heterometrus in Philippine invertebrate trade parthenogenetic?" The "Palawan" part was my assumption because thats where most of the supply come from. I have came across some specimen of local hobbyist before that looks like H. petersii or H. laoticus or something that doesn't look like the mainstream H. longimanus that murders any of it's tank mate. I will need to look on some journals for that and I hope any of you guys can share some pdfs to me.

Anyway, this project may just be to spark the interest of probably an arachnologist or biologist to do further research which we can then accept as fact since the method will be more precise and appropriate compare to this thread of measurements and observations.


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## King Julian (Jun 17, 2016)

so how is it going? im really curious about this

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Pipa (Jun 19, 2016)

If they are parthenogenic, why are there males ?


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## Sarkhan42 (Jun 19, 2016)

Pipa said:


> If they are parthenogenic, why are there males ?


Not all parthenogenic species are all female, males allow for genetic diversity but become more of an opportunistic thing in many cases.


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## King Julian (Jun 20, 2016)

there are lots of arrogant breeders in the philippines. claiming that H. longimanus in the philippines are all parthenogenic. they would humiliate you if you say otherwise. the invert world would definitely benefit from this scientific project of yours.

Reactions: Agree 3 | Disagree 1


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## BobBarley (Jun 20, 2016)

@sclerite Any updates?  Very interested in this.


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## choggzz (Dec 6, 2016)

Hi Mate, just want to ask if there's any update and progress with your project? really interested on your reasearch

Thanks

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Abhorsen (Dec 6, 2016)

any updates?


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## Dr Veee (Mar 18, 2017)

Any updates?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## weibkreux (Nov 7, 2018)

Is the project scrapped due to lack of funds? Just kidding. I'm really curious of the output.


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## Forsythe (Feb 29, 2020)

King Julian said:


> there are lots of arrogant breeders in the philippines. claiming that H. longimanus in the philippines are all parthenogenic. they would humiliate you if you say otherwise. the invert world would definitely benefit from this scientific project of yours.


There was this group page in facebook for exotic keeper of Pampanga, Philippines and i saw a post in there asking if H. Longi are parthenogenetic, i replied, H longi are not proven yet parthenogenetic because there is no valid documentation and proof for the specie being parthenogenetic. And lots of members from the group came to me claiming h longi are partheno and they even say they have one that popped without even mating with other male.


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## Lubed Tweezer (Feb 29, 2020)

Sometimes people mistake a scorpion for being parthenogenetic, often in cases where the female is able to store the sperm in her body for later use.
Centruroides Gracilis females for example only have to mate once with a male, after that she can produce as much brood as she likes for the rest of her life.
So if you would have such a female with scorplings on her back and then 10-15 months later she has a new batch of scorplings while she is living isolated.
That's the point where people can take a invalid conclusion: she produced babies without intervening with a male thus she's parthenogenetic......(which is wrong).
Of course i stand to be corrected when i see scientific evidence of a H. longimanus that is proven to really be parthenogenetic, but I'm doubtful.


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## Dr SkyTower (Feb 29, 2020)

so how is this project coming along? They should be 4-5 years old now... well into maturity and if they are parthenogenetic, they'd be producing offspring. I'd like to know how those ones in the solo containers are doing


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## FrankiePinchinatti (Mar 1, 2020)

Yeah it's a shame the OP never came back to update once they were mature, this seemed like a good experiment.


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