# How many of you can tell me what this species is.....



## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (Mar 7, 2010)

So you all know I do know what this species is, what I like to know is how many of you know this species. Once I see a certain amount of response I'll tell you how many of you are correct, and no I'm not giving it away. This is a female and is 3" inches big and I'm going to be selling her. Dont pay attention to the B. klaasi is the other spider that I want you all to guess. 



                               Jose Berrios
www.exoskeletoninverts.com


----------



## Mvskokee (Mar 7, 2010)

This is a faar out guess because I know squat about NW terresrials but I saaaaay ummmm. Either b.boehmei or  A.bicoloratum


----------



## Mack&Cass (Mar 7, 2010)

Looks like Aphonopelma bicoloratum to me.

Cass


----------



## BrettG (Mar 7, 2010)

B.boehmi...............


----------



## Scorpendra (Mar 7, 2010)

A. bicoloratum

Rob


----------



## presurcukr (Mar 7, 2010)

Brachypelma baumgarteni


----------



## nhdjoseywales (Mar 7, 2010)

looks a lot like my B.boehmi


----------



## rustym3talh3ad (Mar 7, 2010)

i would have to say A. bicoloratum as well.

edit: tho it is a bit strange he would have a B. klaasi running along side an aphonopelma....this could be a trick lol


----------



## BlackCat (Mar 7, 2010)

B. boehmi was my first thought upon opening the thread lol.


----------



## Redneck (Mar 7, 2010)

I would say B.boehmi as well..


----------



## VESPidA (Mar 7, 2010)

it's got pokie written all over it.


----------



## jbm150 (Mar 7, 2010)

Lampropelma nigerrimum.  Do I win and get her as a prize?


Just kidding, looks like A. bicoloratum to me.  Legs look orange rather than red, like boehmei.


----------



## Stopdroproll (Mar 7, 2010)

I'll go with B. boehmei since its 3 inches and may not have full dark orange/red colors.


----------



## Ariel (Mar 8, 2010)

Looks _A. bicoloratum_ to me.


----------



## spiderfield (Mar 8, 2010)

Yo Jose!  My spidey-senses tell me she's an _A. bicoloratum_.


----------



## Niloticus (Mar 8, 2010)

I have a lot of faith in B. Boehmei. Yes Regis.. final answer! I dont think I am the weakest link on the guess but dont quote me on it.

N to the i-loticus


----------



## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (Mar 8, 2010)

*Sp...*



spiderfield said:


> Yo Jose!  My spidey-senses tell me she's an _A. bicoloratum_.


 Well you were way off Ryan. Anyone  that says A. bicoloratum are way off too....... Try again...


                                   Jose Berrios
www.exoskeletoninverts.com


----------



## Jilly1337 (Mar 8, 2010)

Looks like a freshly molted B. boehmei to me.


----------



## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (Mar 8, 2010)

spiderfield said:


> Yo Jose!  My spidey-senses tell me she's an _A. bicoloratum_.


 Hey Ryan your spider-senses are weak I think you might try to drink a beer next time ha ha.. 



                                    Jose Berrios
www.exoskeletoninverts.com


----------



## Koh_ (Mar 8, 2010)

is that hybrid? lol
doesnt look like a.bicoloratum. more like b.boehmi. 
hm... B. boehmei X a.bicoloratum? haha 
or 
 B. klassi X a.bicoloratum?
never thought it would work though.


----------



## Hobo (Mar 8, 2010)

I think it's a dog


----------



## codykrr (Mar 8, 2010)

a golden retriever to be exact!


----------



## Terry D (Mar 8, 2010)

*B. boehmei*

Imop, that's what it appears to be- looks just like mine. I've seen a few pics of baumgarteni that looked quite similar, though. Maybe those were incorrect because there were others that looked nothing like it. Then again they were on the web so who knows? One thing's for certain- There's a pile of theraphosids out there with not only superficial resemblances, but also eerily uncanny. I haven't spent enough time with theraphosids to split hairs.

Terry


----------



## spiderfield (Mar 8, 2010)

jose said:


> Hey Ryan your spider-senses are weak I think you might try to drink a beer next time ha ha..


Lets skip the beer and go for the tequila!


----------



## Terry D (Mar 8, 2010)

*anax vs. hentzi?*

Hi, I meant to write eerily uncanny depending upon photo quality/angle in that last post
 Hey all, While we're at it and the op is probably laughing to himself and about to reveal the true identity of the spider, I have a question.
 I've always taken it on common knowledge that the only theraphosid native to nw La. is Aphonopelma hentzi. Could someone please guide me to crisp photos and accurate descriptions of the various U.S. Aphonopelma with only subtle differences such as hentzi or anax, or any with overlapping ranges. Would be much appreciated.

Terry


----------



## Moltar (Mar 8, 2010)

Well I would have said B. boehmi except everybody else who said that was wrong. I don't think A. bicoloratum is that fuzzy anyway...

M. robustum looks kinda like that except the carapace isn't right but hey, i'm game. Megaphobema robustum? (oh wait, can I phone a friend?)


----------



## xhexdx (Mar 8, 2010)

I may have missed it, but I only saw that A. bicoloratum was wrong.

Definitely not M. robustum.


----------



## Terry D (Mar 8, 2010)

*Hybrid*

Might it be Brachaphonopelmema boehmeicolorustum......... or merely B. boehmgarteneri

Enough already. So tell us.

Terry


----------



## Terry D (Mar 8, 2010)

*Humor, anyone?*

Hi all, Well, I guess most didn't see the humor in the above reply. I couldn't resist in light of the recent hybridization thread.

So Jose, What is it? If it turns out to be anything other than a boehmei, I might need to be contacting seller that sold me mine.

Cheers,

Terry


----------



## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (Mar 8, 2010)

xhexdx said:


> I may have missed it, but I only saw that A. bicoloratum was wrong.
> 
> Definitely not M. robustum.


 Soon I'll post what species it is. By the way I want to say thank you all for participating on this thread. I'm only going to say that A. bicoloratum is wrong... Keep trying



                           Jose Berrios
www.exoskeletoninverts.com


----------



## jbm150 (Mar 8, 2010)

jose said:


> Soon I'll post what species it is. By the way I want to say thank you all for participating on this thread. I'm only going to say that A. bicoloratum is wrong... Keep trying
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Its the most beautiful _Lasiodora parahybana _in the world


----------



## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (Mar 8, 2010)

spiderfield said:


> Lets skip the beer and go for the tequila!


 Pinche, if you drink Tequila you might say it's a Theraphosa sp. Burgundy... So lay off on the Tequila...



                    Jose Berrios
www.exoskeletoninverts.com


----------



## spiderfield (Mar 8, 2010)

I dunno...looks like a hybrid to me.


----------



## Falk (Mar 8, 2010)

Its not a _Brachypelma baumgarteni_, their carapace looks diffirent and more like the carapace _B. smithi_ has.


----------



## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (Mar 8, 2010)

spiderfield said:


> I dunno...looks like a hybrid to me.


 Now you really need to lay of on that crack you're taking Ryan..


                                 Jose Berrios
www.exoskeletoninverts.com


----------



## presurcukr (Mar 8, 2010)

Falk said:


> Its not a _Brachypelma baumgarteni_, their carapace looks diffirent and more like the carapace _B. smithi_ has.


You're wrong.  The carapace darkens as they mature it is definitely a juvenile Brachypelma baumgarteni.  I can't believe everybody got this one wrong.


----------



## Terry D (Mar 8, 2010)

*?*

I guess we'll all know by the time Easter rolls around.


----------



## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (Mar 8, 2010)

Ok, here is one last time. The first picture was taken today and it is not the same species of the first few photos that I posted yesterday, now both species are at 3" inches in size. Second photo is of an immature male that was taken last year that is the same species of the first few photos that I posted yesterday, this one was bigger at than 3" inches at that time. Third picture is of the same species of the first few photos that I took  yesterday and this one was over 5" inches. Fourth photo is the same species of the first picture that you see here this one was taken 3 years ago and was over 6" inches in size. Now what do you all think?



                                    Jose Berrios
www.exoskeletoninverts.com


----------



## presurcukr (Mar 8, 2010)

*this is my male*

he just got the black on the carapace with His last molt.  He is definitely B.baumgarteni


----------



## Terry D (Mar 8, 2010)

*3 photos*

Well, for starters, I only see 3 photos, center one being the individual with the B klaasi. Terry


----------



## robd (Mar 8, 2010)

A. bicoloratum indeed. DEFINITELY NOT B baumgarteni. Not B boehmei because it would have a hint of black on it's carapace. That looks pretty bright orange. That's my reasoning.

EDIT: Just saw your pic update. The black on the carapace is a possible indicator that it could be a baumgarteni, but not a give-away. The question is, what color are the nike-like check marks on the leg? If it's orange, it's a baumgarteni.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0c0vTjQq_M

Check that vid. It's a good one. I recommend going to about 2:50 for a better explanation of what I was trying to say.


----------



## presurcukr (Mar 8, 2010)

If you compare his pictures to mine.  You will see that the carapace is starting to darken around the eyes.  With each successive molt the carapace will darken.


----------



## robd (Mar 8, 2010)

Okay after some more research I concede that it is not A bicoloratum and has got to be either B boehmei or B baumgarteni.

The carapace coloring really does not mean as much as the leg stripe though. My boehmei's check mark is black so it's undoubtedly a boehmei.

Some closer pictures of the legs from both Jose and you, presurcukr, would be helpful.


----------



## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (Mar 8, 2010)

Did you all see my other pictures.


                                 Jose Berrios
www.exoskeletoninverts.com


----------



## robd (Mar 8, 2010)

Yes I did Jose. The picture would need to be kind of ground level with the T. A macro shot of one of the legs with the check mark would be best.


----------



## Terry D (Mar 8, 2010)

*Saw the recent pics*

Jose, Saw the recent pics. I'm gathering prosoma parkings don't mean much now from what robd said. Pic 3, if same as yesterday's sp pics, does not look like boehmei by markings on prosoma. Since that evidently doesn't matter I'll just wait and see. Terry


----------



## presurcukr (Mar 8, 2010)

My boy is still small yet to get a clear picture of the leg with the orange checkmark.  Of the authenticity of my trantula I have no doubt.  He came from one of the first importers of this species.  You may know of him his name was satelliterob may he R.I.P.


----------



## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (Mar 8, 2010)

robd said:


> Yes I did Jose. The picture would need to be kind of ground level with the T. A macro shot of one of the legs with the check mark would be best.


 To make this easy on everyone it is a B. baumgarteni. The legs of a baumgarteni are lighter than a boehmei even at three inches. Boehmei are a richer orange color over all. As baumgarteni gets older it will get black on the carapace it does not mean at three inches that it will be all black same as boehmei. Boehmei has a little bit around the eyes as you can see on my picture but it's nothing like the baumgarteni. Anyways the reason for this thread is for you all know what both species can look like at three inches big, and at close to full size adult.



                            Jose Berrios
www.exoskeletoninverts.com


----------



## robd (Mar 8, 2010)

It can't be too hard to import a B baumgarteni right? In fact, I remember viewing a travel log here on AB that had someone holding one on a trip to Mexico.

Of course you'd ideally love to say it's a B baumgarteni because for some reason or another they're certainly harder to come by and in a hobby like this, rarity is something that's cherished.

They're both beautiful T's either way.


----------



## z4oasis (Mar 8, 2010)

hmm, i'm kind of an arachnorookie and have only kept a few spiders over the past 15 or so years. But is sure looks like a subadult/juv baumgarteni to me...but what do I know since I'm partially colorblind...!


----------



## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (Mar 8, 2010)

Terry D said:


> Jose, Saw the recent pics. I'm gathering prosoma parkings don't mean much now from what robd said. Pic 3, if same as yesterday's sp pics, does not look like boehmei by markings on prosoma. Since that evidently doesn't matter I'll just wait and see. Terry


 The picture that I just posted today is as follows. Picture #1 is a B. boehmei. 3" inches. Picture #2 is a B. baumgarteni immature male bigger than 3" inches at that time. Picture #3 is of a B. baumgarteni over5" inch female picture number #4 is of a B. boehmei female over 6" inches.



                                    Jose Berrios
www.exoskeletoninverts.com


----------



## presurcukr (Mar 8, 2010)

jose said:


> The picture that I just posted today is as follows. Picture #1 is a B. boehmei. 3" inches. Picture #2 is a B. baumgarteni immature male bigger than 3" inches at that time. Picture #3 is of a B. baumgarteni over5" inch female picture number #4 is of a B. boehmei female over 6" inches.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I guess if they saw them live they could tell the difference.I have them both too and throw in an  emilia or 4. I love my Brachy's


----------



## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (Mar 9, 2010)

robd said:


> It can't be too hard to import a B baumgarteni right? In fact, I remember viewing a travel log here on AB that had someone holding one on a trip to Mexico.
> 
> Of course you'd ideally love to say it's a B baumgarteni because for some reason or another they're certainly harder to come by and in a hobby like this, rarity is something that's cherished.
> 
> They're both beautiful T's either way.


 Well I can only tell you what they look like at that size, this thread was for people to have some knowledge on this species. It is a baumgarteni and it's not something that I would love to say just because they are so rare. The picture that the other guy on the boards put up is also a baumgarteni. I can tell right away that is no B. boehmei.



                               Jose Berrios
www.exoskeletoninverts.com


----------



## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (Mar 9, 2010)

presurcukr said:


> I guess if they saw them live they could tell the difference.I have them both too and throw in an  emilia or 4. I love my Brachy's


 How big is yours?


                           Jose Berrios
www.exoskeletoninverts.com


----------



## Terry D (Mar 9, 2010)

*My smallest boehmei isn't brightly colored*

Jose, Mine were sold as boehmei by a reputable dealer. I still believe that's what they are. My largest is currently in premolt. I just had a look at the smaller one. She (tentative) at 3.25" is not extremely bright. Leg segments below patella are close but still somewhat duller than patella. There is a darker triangle beginning to form between eyes and fovea but seems restricted there. The larger spider shows this better. For a long time I thought they looked a bit dull for boehmei- that they were possibly baumgarteni, but found that boehmei were duller when young. There are pics of mine on my short photo thread. Will upload more after next molt- which will be their 3rd (not headed for 4th as I previously indicated elsewhere). The male (tentative also) has really grown and is around 4" and has always had slightly brighter legs. I'm guessing now they were probably 3rd or 4th instars when I got them at around 2"

 Thanks alot for better clearing up at least one subtle differences between the two species.

Terry


----------



## Zoltan (Mar 9, 2010)

jose said:


> The picture that the other guy on the boards put up is also a baumgarteni. I can tell right away that is no B. boehmei.


How and what do you base your identification on? Who identified the spider you posted as _Brachypelma baumgarteni_?


----------



## Bosing (Mar 9, 2010)

B. Baumgarteni vote.


----------



## Falk (Mar 9, 2010)

presurcukr said:


> You're wrong.  The carapace darkens as they mature it is definitely a juvenile Brachypelma baumgarteni.  I can't believe everybody got this one wrong.


Mine got a darker carapace when it was very much smaller than the one in the picture


----------



## metallica (Mar 9, 2010)

presurcukr said:


> You're wrong.  The carapace darkens as they mature it is definitely a juvenile Brachypelma baumgarteni.  I can't believe everybody got this one wrong.


is this documented anywhere? i was under the impression that the carapace of B. baumgarteni was very variable. from allmost no black to "smithi black".


----------



## metallica (Mar 9, 2010)

jose said:


> Well I can only tell you what they look like at that size, this thread was for people to have some knowledge on this species. It is a baumgarteni and it's not something that I would love to say just because they are so rare. The picture that the other guy on the boards put up is also a baumgarteni. I can tell right away that is no B. boehmei.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


can we please see a clear pic of metatarsus I?


----------



## metallica (Mar 9, 2010)

robd said:


> It can't be too hard to import a B baumgarteni right? In fact, I remember viewing a travel log here on AB that had someone holding one on a trip to Mexico.


it might not be hard to find them in the wild.... but have you ever tried getting CITES protected spiders out of Mexico?


----------



## presurcukr (Mar 9, 2010)

he is just at 3" hope this is the last pic i need to post I know that this T is what I say it is!


----------



## presurcukr (Mar 9, 2010)

Remember he is a sub adult and will get more color when he matures


----------



## brachybaum (Mar 10, 2010)

jose said:


> Ok, here is one last time. The first picture was taken today and it is not the same species of the first few photos that I posted yesterday, now both species are at 3" inches in size. Second photo is of an immature male that was taken last year that is the same species of the first few photos that I posted yesterday, this one was bigger at than 3" inches at that time. Third picture is of the same species of the first few photos that I took  yesterday and this one was over 5" inches. Fourth photo is the same species of the first picture that you see here this one was taken 3 years ago and was over 6" inches in size. Now what do you all think?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ok I'm pretty much an expert on Iding Baumgarteni's, heck I've IDed 2 that I bought marked Boehmei's.  The first pic is 100% Boehmei, 2nd and 3rd pics are 100% Baumgarteni and 4th pic is another Boehmei.  I know to id Baumgarteni's you need to make sure that nike check mark near their toes is orange but I can tell the difference between Baumgarteni and Boehmei by just looking at them.  Also Boehmei's are notorious hair kickers, Baumgarteni's have Smithi type temperament.  Just my 2 cents.


----------



## brachybaum (Mar 10, 2010)

presurcukr said:


> he is just at 3" hope this is the last pic i need to post I know that this T is what I say it is!


That is 100% Baumgarteni, no doubt in my mind it's a Boehmei.  Also on the knees the Baumgarteni's have more prominent stripes, Boehmei's have blurry red stripes.  I have 3 mature Female Baumgarteni's and 1 immature male.  Maybe when your's matures you might loan him for some breeding(keeping fingers crossed).  I just love these guys.  Congrats.


----------



## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (Mar 10, 2010)

brachybaum said:


> Ok I'm pretty much an expert on Iding Baumgarteni's, heck I've IDed 2 that I bought marked Boehmei's.  The first pic is 100% Boehmei, 2nd and 3rd pics are 100% Baumgarteni and 4th pic is another Boehmei.  I know to id Baumgarteni's you need to make sure that nike check mark near their toes is orange but I can tell the difference between Baumgarteni and Boehmei by just looking at them.  Also Boehmei's are notorious hair kickers, Baumgarteni's have Smithi type temperament.  Just my 2 cents.


 Which picture are you saying that is boehmei? Is it the one that I posted on 3/7/10 or one of the picture that has the two big females with? I know boehmei's notorious kickers I've been dealing with them since 1989, this one is not so notorious kicker and this species  is a B. baumgarteni. I recently had five 3" inch boehmei's two of them were male 3 were females all came from different places and all of them looked the same. I also have a friend that has two immature males baumgarteni that are a little bit bigger than my female all of those two look the same as my female only they are starting to get the black carapace. I beleive some of you called this species A. bicoloratum. when clearly is a Brachypelma species. Anyways the minute I said is baumgarteni no one except one person seem to beleive is a baumgarteni. I posted this thread so people can know the difference on this two sp. at 3" inches so those of you that want to beleive that is boehmei go right ahead. I love to prove people wrong so if I decide to keep her you better be ready to say oops I was wrong, that's how cofident I'am on this. I'm considering in selling her so dont know yet what my plan is on her if I decide to keep her I will post new photos of her each time she molts. This all I have to say about this thread thanks again for participating on this.

                             Jose Berrios
www.exoskeletoninverts.com


----------



## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (Mar 10, 2010)

Zoltan said:


> How and what do you base your identification on? Who identified the spider you posted as _Brachypelma baumgarteni_?


 It was sold to me as a baumgarteni. I didn't put this thread thinking that I was not sure what spcies this was I put this thread so people can see the difference on them. But of course their was quite a few that said it was A. bicoloratum.



                           Jose Berrios
www.exoskeletoninverts.com


----------



## presurcukr (Mar 10, 2010)

brachybaum said:


> That is 100% Baumgarteni, no doubt in my mind it's a Boehmei.  Also on the knees the Baumgarteni's have more prominent stripes, Boehmei's have blurry red stripes.  I have 3 mature Female Baumgarteni's and 1 immature male.  Maybe when your's matures you might loan him for some breeding(keeping fingers crossed).  I just love these guys.  Congrats.


That is 100% Baumgarteni, no doubt in my mind it's* not *a Boehmei.


----------



## metallica (Mar 11, 2010)

jose said:


> I posted this thread so people can know the difference on this two sp. at 3" inches so those of you that want to beleive that is boehmei go right ahead.


again, just post a clear picture of metatarsus I and job done.


----------



## Zoltan (Mar 11, 2010)

jose said:


> It was sold to me as a baumgarteni. I didn't put this thread thinking that I was not sure what spcies this was I put this thread so people can see the difference on them. But of course their was quite a few that said it was A. bicoloratum.


So, do you know what are the key taxonomic features of _B. baumgarteni_? Is the only reason you are sure that it's _B. baumgarteni_ because it was sold to you as such? (I've seen _Holothele_ sp. "Norte de Santander" sold under the name _Coremiocnemis_ sp. "Fraser's Hill' - not joking!)


jose said:


> I know boehmei's notorious kickers I've been dealing with them since 1989


That's interesting, 1989? You must have been among the first few to keep this species then. They were only described in 1993 (Schmidt & Klaas, 1993), I have no information whether they were in the hobby in 1989 though. The paratype was supposedly sent to Schmidt in 1990.


----------



## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (Mar 11, 2010)

Zoltan said:


> So, do you know what are the key taxonomic features of _B. baumgarteni_? Is the only reason you are sure that it's _B. baumgarteni_ because it was sold to you as such? (I've seen _Holothele_ sp. "Norte de Santander" sold under the name _Coremiocnemis_ sp. "Fraser's Hill' - not joking!)
> 
> That's interesting, 1989? You must have been among the first few to keep this species then. They were only described in 1993 (Schmidt & Klaas, 1993), I have no information whether they were in the hobby in 1989 though. The paratype was supposedly sent to Schmidt in 1990.


 Like I said she is a baumgarteni, you can either beleive it or not it does not matter to me. In 1989 is when I started doing tarantulas I've own boehmei's of and on since than, so I know the difference between the two. I guess it's not possible for some of you to look at  picture and discribe a spider after all it was being called A. bicoloratum. Maybe I should have said it was a bicoloratum. No, I do not know what are the key taxonomic features on any of my spiders cause there is no need to get that technical. Only if I really need to get that technical I will. One example last year in the early summer I got a mature male of a A. brocklehursti when I was suppose to actually receive a A. geniculata when I got him I knew there was something not right, now I never own a A. brocklehursti ever A. geniculata many times mature and immature. Here I was trying to breed a A. brocklehursti male with a A. geniculata well the result was the female genic was not interested at all and was not in the mood to kill him at all. So after number of times I started to think this is a brock, so I got a hold of Rick West and Todd Gearheart on this matter.The result to this was it was confirm by looking at the picture it was a A. broklehursti. The good thing about that time Kelly Swift had already send me a A. brocklehursti 4" inch female which I never own before when I received her I knew she was not geniculata. So what I did with that male brock put those two together the male was still in my hands when the female started to drum like crazy. The results was I hatched out babies and gave Paul his half since it was a loan. Now came up with the real mature male A. geniculata a month later after getting that mature male brock. sure enough my female genic wanted to breed with him and of course wanted to kill him after the first insert. After numerous attempts and a few moths later baby genics. were born. So if you go on my website you'll see the difference on the two mature males and females. The point of this it doesn't take a genius to know the difference on the sp. specially when there are picture out there that you can compare to. The problem with the genic and the brock I couldn't fine any pictures of that species when they were mature males. I learn as I go and everyday I learn something new about a spider I'm not a scientist and dont care to be one. Let's say you bought a B. baumgarteni at half of an inch and turn around and sold it a few months later how would you explain to that person that it is the real B. baumgarteni? I have also gotten spiders that were sold that was not the spider that I wanted or loaned out that's going to happen. I've never sold to anyone any spider that was not true to this date.


                              Jose Berrios
www.exoskeletoninverts.com


----------



## jbm150 (Mar 11, 2010)

jose said:


> No, I do not know what are the key taxonomic features on any of my spiders cause there is no need to get that technical.


I'm not sure this is the right attitude to have if you're in the business of breeding and selling tarantulas.  I'm not trying to be harsh but it sounds like you're just kinda winging it.


----------



## Zoltan (Mar 11, 2010)

I doubt Rick West gave you a conclusive ID from a picture, since he knows how identification is done.


jose said:


> No, I do not know what are the key taxonomic features on any of my spiders cause there is no need to get that technical.


So if you don't know *what* makes a spider _B. baumgarteni_, then how can you apply that name to any specimens? There can be significant intraspecific variation in a species and you can't just look at pictures and tell with certainty what species is on the picture. Separation of species is based on features that are stable or vary between strict and defined values, and these features and differences are often not visible to the naked, and especially to the unskilled eye. Sure, there are species that look different and you can tell (or rather, fairly accurately guess) they are not the same species, but this is not the case with very closely related species and with those that are very similar in general appearance.


----------



## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (Mar 11, 2010)

Zoltan said:


> I doubt Rick West gave you a conclusive ID from a picture, since he knows how identification is done.
> 
> So if you don't know *what* makes a spider _B. baumgarteni_, then how can you apply that name to any specimens? There can be significant intraspecific variation in a species and you can't just look at pictures and tell with certainty what species is on the picture. Separation of species is based on features that are stable or vary between strict and defined values, and these features and differences are often not visible to the naked, and especially to the unskilled eye. Sure, there are species that look different and you can tell (or rather, fairly accurately guess) they are not the same species, but this is not the case with very closely related species and with those that are very similar in general appearance.


 I can go on and on about this so maybe you outa take a look at my website and tell me that all my pictures are not what they are if it will make you feel better. Cause it seems your not so educated enough by looking at a picture and identify a species that way, abviously Rick West and Todd Gearheart is educated enough when he corrected the species on the brock. for me.... And you did to answer my question from the previous thread.


                       Jose Berrios
www.exoskeletoninverts .com


----------



## jbm150 (Mar 11, 2010)

While I applaud your willingness to bring in outside authorities to help ID your spiders, I think you still have a lot to learn about what it means to be an effective and successful (and honest) T dealer.  You also might want to be careful about how you're dropping names (Todd and Rick) like you are, whether they've helped you in the past or not.  Believe me, Zoltan knows his taxonomy and identification and what goes into both.


----------



## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (Mar 11, 2010)

jbm150 said:


> While I applaud your willingness to bring in outside authorities to help ID your spiders, I think you still have a lot to learn about what it means to be an effective and successful (and honest) T dealer.  You also might want to be careful about how you're dropping names (Todd and Rick) like you are, whether they've helped you in the past or not.  Believe me, Zoltan knows his taxonomy and identification and what goes into both.


 Well here you go this is the view of the metatarsys. This is the same spider that I originally posted on my thread from the begining. And dont need to be careful cause I do know my spiders. Now if I bought a spider from a sling and sold it to someone and it turn out to be something else well is always best to tell the dealer that it turned out something else so that way I or other dealers dont buy the sling where they originally came from and I'am on honest dealer and succesful of what I do. You haven't even bought from me and you are already talking that I'm not an honest or effective dealer you ought to give me your full name so I CAN PUT IT ON MY DO NOT SELL LIST. Fair enough.... This is the end of my thread so if this pictures can't tell you the difference between a B. baumgarteni and boehmei so be it those of you that participated in this thank you for your input it was fun.  


                                    Jose Berrios
www.exoskeletoninverts.com


----------



## jbm150 (Mar 11, 2010)

I don't doubt you can effectively ID your spiders on sight and by pictures, most of us can.  My point was, with certain closely related or similar looking species especially, it would be best if you learned specifically which features are used to differentiate said species.  That way you know for sure which spiders you are pairing up and be able to answer interested buyers' identification questions when they come up.  Not just tell them "I know what such and such looks like" or "Todd Gearheart IDed the spider from a picture," but exactly what features were used to make the identification.

I do apologize, I wasn't trying to undermine your integrity and I see how my wording would make you think that.  But I do think that if you are running a T selling business, you might want to be a bit more studied on the technical side of things.  In my opinion, it'll help head off any problems before they arise.

Sending you a pm


----------



## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (Mar 11, 2010)

jbm150 said:


> I don't doubt you can effectively ID your spiders on sight and by pictures, most of us can.  My point was, with certain closely related or similar looking species especially, it would be best if you learned specifically which features are used to differentiate said species.  That way you know for sure which spiders you are pairing up and be able to answer interested buyers' identification questions when they come up.  Not just tell them "I know what such and such looks like" or "Todd Gearheart IDed the spider from a picture," but exactly what features were used to make the identification.
> 
> I do apologize, I wasn't trying to undermine your integrity and I see how my wording would make you think that.  But I do think that if you are running a T selling business, you might want to be a bit more studied on the technical side of things.  In my opinion, it'll help head off any problems before they arise.
> 
> Sending you a pm


 So are we clear that this is a baumgarteni or not?I was asked to show a different view on her so I did so. Like I said before I'm not a scientist I dont go by taxonomy cause thru out my whole entire years of doing spiders I never got into the taxonomy. Yes it would help me out alot if I did so. Remember by looking at the picture people were saying that it was either A. bicoloratum and B. boehmei so I ask what made some of you think that it is a bicoloratum or boehmei? So I'm asking you the same question... And for the record it takes guts to make a public apology, so I thank you for that. Apology accepted...... My website is pretty basic so I dont go and make it were I need to do more that's why I created a link that will take people to places that some other dealers dont have like The World Spider Catalog I would like to do more on my links so if you have any ideas that would be appreciated.


                                          Jose Berrios
www.exoskeletoninverts.com


----------



## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (Mar 11, 2010)

I dont know what happen to my original pictures so here they are again. These are the first three that were on the top of the thread.

                            Jose Berrios
www.exoskeletoninverts.com


----------



## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (Mar 12, 2010)

metallica said:


> again, just post a clear picture of metatarsus I and job done.


The job is done and still have no reply from any of you.




                              Jose Berrios
www.exoskeletoninverts.com


----------



## presurcukr (Mar 13, 2010)

Well I knew right away who she was  I am willing to send You my male when they are mature so you can breed them :clap:If you are keeping her (I will try to come up with the cash to buy her from you if you can hold out for a few weeks)


----------



## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (Mar 13, 2010)

presurcukr said:


> Well I knew right away who she was  I am willing to send You my male when they are mature so you can breed them :clap:If you are keeping her (I will try to come up with the cash to buy her from you if you can hold out for a few weeks)


 Not a problem about getting your male but it wont be with this female cause someone is most likely buying her but the mature female that you see on my gallery show she will be available for breeding. Did you notice that the other members on the boards have nothing to say now since I put up the new photos of the metatarsus? Maybe they're to busy.... By the way I didn't expect everyone to now what this species was so those of you that were wrong I aploud you for trying to identify her. I'm always learning about new species that I've never owned before. If I'm wrong about something I'll admit my mistake.  



                                   Jose Berrios
www.exoskeletoninverts.com


----------



## metallica (Mar 13, 2010)

jose said:


> The job is done and still have no reply from any of you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


OH Dear! could this mean that....... i have a life besides internet?

nice spider. do you kow when i was bred/ imported?


----------



## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (Mar 13, 2010)

metallica said:


> OH Dear! could this mean that....... i have a life besides internet?
> 
> nice spider. do you kow when i was bred/ imported?


 I was told it came from SatelliteBob but not sure if that it's true or not I bought it from a private seller, yeah she's a nice spider. Oh dear! I dont expect you to be on the internet all your life I would like a straight answer period!!!!!!! I think it's owed to me...




                                            Jose Berrios
www.exoskeletoninverts.com


----------



## presurcukr (Mar 13, 2010)

jose said:


> I was told it came from StelliteBob but not sure if that it's true or not I bought it from a private seller, yeah she's a nice spider. Oh dear! I dont expect you to be on the internet all your life I would like a straight answer period!!!!!!! I think it's owed to me...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


well mine came from rob too so i may look to breed him to another line


----------



## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (Mar 13, 2010)

presurcukr said:


> well mine came from rob too so i may look to breed him to another line


 Just remember I have a female that's over 5" inches so dont count her out that one came from a show here in Utah over a year ago. She's the one on my website gallery show photos. This 3" inch one you should cause she suppose to have come from SatelliteBob. This lete me know in the future when his ready and see if you still want to ok. 


                            Jose Berrios
www.exoskeletoninverts.com


----------



## presurcukr (Mar 13, 2010)

yes I will thanks he may take a few years.


----------



## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (Mar 13, 2010)

presurcukr said:


> yes I will thanks he may take a few years.


Cool.......


                          Jose Berrios
www.exoskeletoninverts.com


----------



## rustym3talh3ad (Mar 13, 2010)

there was mention u believed this to be B. baumgarteni? i was under the impression that that species had a very dark center to its carapace? and without getting into the "theres different color forms blah blah blah" it still looks to me like either boehmei or bicoloratum.


----------



## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (Mar 13, 2010)

rustym3talh3ad said:


> there was mention u believed this to be B. baumgarteni? i was under the impression that that species had a very dark center to its carapace? and without getting into the "theres different color forms blah blah blah" it still looks to me like either boehmei or bicoloratum.


 It's not a boehmei or bicoloratum. My friend and I picked up the male and this female from a private collector the male that he has is bigger than this one and his male is starting to pick up black on the carapace. Like I said before it will get darker as it keeps on getting bigger it doesn't happen over night, just like any spider that will get it's color. If I get a chance this week I'll go down to his place and take a picture of his male so you can see him.


                          Jose Berrios
www.exoskeletoninverts.com


----------



## AprilH (Mar 13, 2010)

I don't think that by asking for additional photos people think you're wrong - they are looking for specific details that distinguish one species from another. I do have to say that your attitude was rather off-putting in this thread. Just because some people were farther off in their guesses doesn't make everyone's responses invalid. You started this thread trying to sound like you're an expert on tarantulas and practically ridiculing people for wrong guesses. Then after all that, it turns out that you don't even know what features distinguish the species. Anyone who wanted detailed photos doesn't owe you an apology - they are trying to educate you. You should pay attention and learn from it, instead of getting so defensive. 

I would like to point out that I am in no means an expert, but I don't claim to be.


----------



## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (Mar 14, 2010)

opiate said:


> I don't think that by asking for additional photos people think you're wrong - they are looking for specific details that distinguish one species from another. I do have to say that your attitude was rather off-putting in this thread. Just because some people were farther off in their guesses doesn't make everyone's responses invalid. You started this thread trying to sound like you're an expert on tarantulas and practically ridiculing people for wrong guesses. Then after all that, it turns out that you don't even know what features distinguish the species. Anyone who wanted detailed photos doesn't owe you an apology - they are trying to educate you. You should pay attention and learn from it, instead of getting so defensive.
> 
> I would like to point out that I am in no means an expert, but I don't claim to be.


 Did I say I was an expert? You abviously didn't read what I wrote on this thread or thru out any of my post, I said I didn't expect everyone to know what this species was. I dont want an appology I want an answer by the expert that went on this thread, I was asked to show the metatarsus and I did so. And did say I'm not a taxonomist? Attention everyone: I repeat so everyone knows I'm not a taxanomist..... so read carefully before you go ahead and start thinking that I'm an expert. Hey I'm all ears by the experts that can identify this species at 3" inches so I ask again is it a baumgarteni or not? By the way if you notice thru out my thread I only picked on one of my socials on the boards his name is Spiderfield very nice guy, he knows it was all in humor when I responded back to his comments. The next post should be about the identification of this spider so let's have it!


                             Jose Berrios
www.exoskeletoninverts.com


----------

