# Getting a Psalmopoeus irminia (Venezuelan Sun Tiger)



## KingCam (Sep 11, 2012)

I have a dear friend in Texas who breeds many species of invertibrates & vertibrates alike.  She has an extra suntiger female, she said it's approximately 3".  Anyway, she's promised it to me and should be shipping it sometime this week or next.

I have done some reading on them and I'm getting ready to set up an enclosure for her.  I will outline my ideas so far and hopefully you all can tell me if/where I'm going wrong.

I have a 15 gallon hexagon aquriaum that I indend to use.  I will spraypaint the back half (on the outside) with black paint for security.  I intend to put about 6 inches of substrate in the bottom.  My substrate conists of ~1 : ~1 : ~2 mixture of cocofiber : sphagnum peat : log compost.  

Let me explain the "log compost" part.  I take hikes into the woods looking for those perfect rotting logs.  You know the ones, they have been down so long the only part that is still solid is the outside shell.  The inside of the log is filled with what looks like soil.  I crack the shell of the log open (and saves parts of the shell to use in place of corkboard).  I shovel the insides out, bring them home, bake them at 250F for 3 hours (along with the wood pieces), then let cool & mix with the cocofiber and peat moss.

I will use several of the wood pieces from the log's shell as shelters and things to climb on.  As stated they too are baked and sterilized.

There will be a faily large water dish in the bottom.

To retain humidity (because I read they need something like 80%) I will saran wrap 80-90% of the lid and leave only about 10-20% open for ventilation.  I read it's not as important to have as much air flow with the suntigers as it is for say an _avicularia sp_.  Is this correct?

For heat I was just going to attach a UTH to the side or bottom of the tank.  If that doesn't work I might look into using a ceramic heat emitter.  Is it absolutely necessary to have a cooling period at night, or can I just try to maintain ~85F 100% of the time?

I will mist with distilled water in the mornings and at night.

Staple diet will be roaches.  I breed 11 species.  Most common fed will probably be lobster roaches (_Nauphoeta cinerea_), red runners (_Blatta lateralis_), and guyana orange spotted (_Blaptica dubia_).

As far as light goes I'll probably just use a daylight CLF bulb.  Is it okay if their day lenghts mimic my local sunrine and sunset?  I like to keep my locally collected animals in sync with the seasons.

Since the humidity has to stay quite high I am going to introduce springtails and sow bugs to control mold.

Thanks in advance, I will post photos of my new sling when she arrives


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## Chris_Skeleton (Sep 11, 2012)

First, 3" is not a sling. That would be a juvenile. As for the substrate, that will be fine.

For humidity, they will be fine with slightly moist substrate and a dish. You can even use dry substrate with a dish. IMO, humidity isn't as important as it is made out to be. And air flow is absolutely important in any enclosure with high humidity. It's more important to maintain air flow, rather than humidity, with any species. There is a speculation that so many people have their Avicularia die because of high humidity and restricted air flow causing the air to become stagnant. I believe this to be true as well. 

I would suggest setting it up with dry substrate and a dish, and overflow it once every few weeks. Just enough to slightly moisten the top layer of substrate.

I set up mine with damp substrate and it developed mold in no time.

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## KingCam (Sep 11, 2012)

Chris_Skeleton said:


> First, 3" is not a sling. That would be a juvenile.


 Thanks for the calrification.  I guess I just gave away how new I am to the world of tarantulas, didn't I?  



Chris_Skeleton said:


> For humidity, they will be fine with slightly moist substrate and a dish. You can even use dry substrate with a dish. IMO, humidity isn't as important as it is made out to be. And air flow is absolutely important in any enclosure with high humidity. It's more important to maintain air flow, rather than humidity, with any species. There is a speculation that so many people have their Avicularia die because of high humidity and restricted air flow causing the air to become stagnant. I believe this to be true as well.
> 
> I would suggest setting it up with dry substrate and a dish, and overflow it once every few weeks. Just enough to slightly moisten the top layer of substrate.
> 
> I set up mine with damp substrate and it developed mold in no time.


 Thanks for taking the time to read my post and respond.  I apprecaite your advice, I'll take it into serious consideration.


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## Chris_Skeleton (Sep 11, 2012)

Have you successfully used that wood compost in other T enclosures?

Also, a 15 gallon is going to be huge for a 3" spider.


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## KingCam (Sep 11, 2012)

Chris_Skeleton said:


> Have you successfully used that wood compost in other T enclosures?


 This will be my first T.  I had a group of slings two years ago, but the heat went out that winter while I was away from home and they did not survive the chill.  They were still very small, maybe 1/2" each.  I'm just now getting around to giving this another try.

I use this substrate with all of my animals with no bad effects.  Tiger salamanders (who burrow through it and live under it most of the time), cane toad, milk frogs, etc



Chris_Skeleton said:


> Also, a 15 gallon is going to be huge for a 3" spider.


  If it's too big I can put the t in something smaller until it reaches adult size.  15 gallon won't be too big for an adult, will it?  Would I be better of using a vertical 10 gallon?


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## Chris_Skeleton (Sep 11, 2012)

What kind of wood is it? There are types of wood that are harmful to Ts because they produce natural pesticides. I would look more into this and find out what kind of wood it is. I think the 15 gallon would work for an adult with about 50% filled with substrate for burrowing in addition to some stuff for the T to climb on.


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## KingCam (Sep 11, 2012)

Chris_Skeleton said:


> What kind of wood is it? There are types of wood that are harmful to Ts because they produce natural pesticides. I would look more into this and find out what kind of wood it is. I think the 15 gallon would work for an adult with about 50% filled with substrate for burrowing in addition to some stuff for the T to climb on.


That's a good question.  I can't be 100% sure.  What trees are dangerous?  The woods I hike consists mostly of Oak, Walnut and Ash.  I never collect any substrate from areas with evergreens because I know the oils in evergreens can be dangerous to animals.

EDIT:  If this helps, I keep a tiger centipede & a nursery web spider on it with no ill effects.


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## goodoldneon (Sep 11, 2012)

Rather than spray paint the “backside” black, I would consider affixing a cork bark background (or three). This will give your T something to climb, and aesthetically, would be much more pleasing to the eye (in my opinion). 

http://www.zoomed.com/db/products/E...zOjE6IjAiO3M6ODoiU2VhcmNoX3kiO3M6MToiMCI7fQ==

My 3” P. irminia is kept at room temperature – usually around 72-75 degrees – I wet her substrate/moss once a week – the majority of her humidity is provided via a water bowl - I don't shoot for specific temperatures or humidity ranges . She prefers to burrow rather than climb/web – this seems to be the case with all my arboreal spiders -  with the exception of my Avic. I won’t speak for the entire species, but my girl is very reclusive – she’ll take the occasional stroll – and her legs are often visible at the entrance of her burrow, but otherwise, I don’t see her very often. As you’ve probably heard, they can move extremely fast – from zero to teleport pretty much instantly. I’ve held mine on several occasions, but as she’s grown, she’s become a bit more defensive – so, I think my handling days are over (at least intentional handling). 

They are absolutely gorgeous – congrats on the acquisition.

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## KingCam (Sep 11, 2012)

goodoldneon said:


> Rather than spray paint the “backside” black, I would consider affixing a cork bark background (or three). This will give your T something to climb, and aesthetically, would be much more pleasing to the eye (in my opinion).


 Another great idea to consider!  Thank you 





goodoldneon said:


> My 3” P. irminia is kept at room temperature – usually around 72-75 degrees – I wet her substrate/moss once a week – the majority of her humidity is provided via a water bowl - I don't shoot for specific temperatures or humidity ranges.


 Oh, that's good to know.  I was under the impression temp and humidity needed to be precise. 



goodoldneon said:


> She prefers to burrow rather than climb/web – this seems to be the case with all my arboreal spiders -  with the exception of my Avic. I won’t speak for the entire species, but my girl is very reclusive – she’ll take the occasional stroll – and her legs are often visible at the entrance of her burrow, but otherwise, I don’t see her very often.


 I will be sure to add quite a lot of substrate to burrow in.



goodoldneon said:


> As you’ve probably heard, they can move extremely fast – from zero to teleport pretty much instantly. I’ve held mine on several occasions, but as she’s grown, she’s become a bit more defensive – so, I think my handling days are over (at least intentional handling).


 I'm aware of their speed and tempers   Thank you for the heads up, I will certainly have to be careful where my hand goes.



goodoldneon said:


> They are absolutely gorgeous – congrats on the acquisition.


 Thank you   I could not agree more, they are stunningly beautiful spiders (unless you ask my girlfriend).


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## skar (Sep 11, 2012)

DON'T use a under tank heater . room temp 70 - 80 or  what have you is fine . If you want or need heat use a space heater .
No you don't need a cooling period - T's seem to me pretty simplistic .
No need for artificial light either - your spider doesn't care what season it is or for light anyhow. 

Enjoy getting those reflexes up .
l8r days.

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## KingCam (Sep 11, 2012)

skar said:


> DON'T use a under tank heater . room temp 70 - 80 or  what have you is fine . If you want or need heat use a space heater.
> No you don't need a cooling period - T's seem to me pretty simplistic
> No need for artificial light either - your spider doesn't care what season it is or for light anyhow.


Fair enough!  Thanks 



skar said:


> Enjoy getting those reflexes up .
> l8r days.


 hahaha, thanks!  should be fun XD


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## skar (Sep 11, 2012)

A pleasure . I believe your over thinking the substrate bit but . . . no harm I guess, whatever keeps you happy . 
btw you will get about 20 more spides in the next few months ha ha .


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## KingCam (Sep 11, 2012)

skar said:


> I believe your over thinking the substrate bit


I'm not sure what you mean.  You mean I'm over thinking it because I go looking for it in the woods?  I do that to save money because coco fiber is expensive when you're using as much of it as I do with all of my amphibians.  I wasn't really questioning it's safety until Chris said it might not be good.



skar said:


> btw you will get about 20 more spides in the next few months ha ha .


 If that happens my girlfriend will DEFINITELY leave me XD  She already says she won't sleep here after I get the suntiger, but I am calling her bluff


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## rockhopper (Sep 11, 2012)

A brick of coco fiber is a couple bucks.  Just grab one for your T and you won't have to change it for at least a year.  If you can't afford that then you probably can't afford to feed the thing either.

Forget about temp and humidity.  Room temp and a water bowl is all any of my irminia (slings get moist sub, but yours isn't a sling as pointed out) get.

These things are so easy to keep.  Most people over think it way too much.  The KISS method (Keep It Simple Stupid) is the way to go.

Good luck!


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## KingCam (Sep 11, 2012)

rockhopper said:


> A brick of coco fiber is a couple bucks.  Just grab one for your T and you won't have to change it for at least a year.  If you can't afford that then you probably can't afford to feed the thing either.


 Did I say I couldn't afford a brick of coco fiber, smart ass?  If you read the original post you'd see that coco fiber is already mixed in with the substrate, so unless that coco fiber magically appeared in my house it would stand to reason I already know how much it costs.  

Not a couple bucks either, btw.  Cheapest package of coco fiber I can find in any local pet stores is $9.  Not to say I can't afford it, but why go waste ten bucks when I have like 20 gallons of substrate at home that works perfectly fine for the rest of my animals?  

If it's not fine for tarantulas, okay, I guess am willing to accept that. If someone can tell me which trees are poisonous to tarantulas maybe I can determine if my substrate is safe or not.  If it's not safe I will be glad to use something else.  

Like I said, I keep two arachnids on it currently, and there were centipedes, milipedes, and sow bugs all throughout the stuff before I baked it.  Unless tarantulas have some kind of unique sensitivity that no other arachnid possesses (yes, I know sow bugs aren't arachnids) I can't see why this substrate would be dangerous to use.

Again, as stated in the original post, I breed 11 species of roaches.  But yeah, I can see why you might think I wouldn't be able to afford to feed my new tarantula. :sarcasm:



rockhopper said:


> Forget about temp and humidity.  Room temp and a water bowl is all any of my irminia (slings get moist sub, but yours isn't a sling as pointed out) get.
> 
> These things are so easy to keep.  Most people over think it way too much.  The KISS method (Keep It Simple Stupid) is the way to go.
> 
> Good luck!


  Yeah.  Thanks.

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## rockhopper (Sep 11, 2012)

Oh don't be so sensitive man!


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## Legion09 (Sep 11, 2012)

I don't know which trees are toxic to our T's...but I do know from my random thread hopping through these threads and the true spiders thread that some spiders (can't remember details, I'm sorry...  ) have been found in rotted out stumps of trees previously thought to be unsafe for them.  It is the running theory that the decomposition neutralizes the toxicity.  

In my opinion (not a biologist or chemist btw) if it's working for your other spiders, it should work for a T.

And as stated before, precision in humidity isn't really necessary, or temperature.  Normal room temp is fine, dry sub for something that large is fine too.  Just keep a waterbowl and maybe a mist of water weekly.  I have a UV filtered desklamp that I turn on daily, adjustable brightness, so set to lowest) that increases the ambient temp of the area from 74 F to 79 F.  I personally, and with no shred of evidence mind you, think it helps some and also gives them more difference between day and night.

Here's my setup:






I made the enclosure, but need to replace it..(first attempt, starting to come apart, hence the tape..lol)  I glued cork bark to the back and cork bark pieces to the water cap and then attached that to the back.  About 2 1/2 inches substrate and 5 inches vertical.  It's hard to see, but she made a tube web burrow at the very bottom of the cork bark against the sub and placed substrate on it, which she webbed over again...so she's nearly never visible, but she does have a (currently webbed over) entrance/exit next to the waterbowl.  She's also about 2 inches right now, just shy of it.

This is from when I rehoused her...







Hope this helps some! ^_^

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## KingCam (Sep 11, 2012)

Legion09 said:


> I don't know which trees are toxic to our T's...but I do know from my random thread hopping through these threads and the true spiders thread that some spiders (can't remember details, I'm sorry...  ) have been found in rotted out stumps of trees previously thought to be unsafe for them.  It is the running theory that the decomposition neutralizes the toxicity.
> 
> In my opinion (not a biologist or chemist btw) if it's working for your other spiders, it should work for a T.
> 
> ...


That was helpful, thank you!  Great setup you got there, tape or no tape XD  A beautiful spider, too!

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## Legion09 (Sep 11, 2012)

KingCam said:


> That was helpful, thank you!  Great setup you got there, tape or no tape XD  A beautiful spider, too!


Thank you! ^_^  Enjoy yours when you get her!  And I hope calling your GF's bluff works. ^_~


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## KingCam (Sep 11, 2012)

Legion09 said:


> Thank you! ^_^  Enjoy yours when you get her!  And I hope calling your GF's bluff works. ^_~


Oh I will, thanks!

haha, me too.  I'm gonna feel really stupid if I lose a girlfriend over a spider XD


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## skar (Sep 11, 2012)

KingCam said:


> I'm not sure what you mean.  You mean I'm over thinking it because I go looking for it in the woods?  I do that to save money because coco fiber is expensive when you're using as much of it as I do with all of my amphibians.  I wasn't really questioning it's safety until Chris said it might not be good.
> 
> If that happens my girlfriend will DEFINITELY leave me XD  She already says she won't sleep here after I get the suntiger, but I am calling her bluff


Like I said if it works for you cool . I don't think it would be harmful ... alltho I tried the getting wood from outside thing, and got mold aft about a day so .. idk.
The getting 20 spiders thing is just what seems to happen once you get 1 ... just sayin !!!!


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## SamuraiSid (Sep 11, 2012)

skar said:


> Like I said if it works for you cool . I don't think it would be harmful ... alltho I tried the getting wood from outside thing, and got mold aft about a day so .. idk.


I've done this a bunch of times too. Never tried store bought before. Sometimes I get mold, sometimes I dont. isopods are on my list of things to try.


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## Arachninja (Sep 11, 2012)

Bro just from my first eight P. irminias I have(which are two and a quarter inch slings I have noticed anything other than pure coco grows mold, and I mean everything even inoculated bamboo, wood, and soil.  I dont know why the coco husk just does not support the mold spores ever preasent in our air.  also peat and vermiculite do not as well as a mixture of all three.  Inoculated mulch, compost and wild soil all however have allways produced mold for me, at least around the base of the medium where the soil line is.  But you may be better off with a 3", good luck and to that irminia GOOD HUNTING, they are called "Suntiger" for a reason.


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## NoSBoH (Sep 12, 2012)

I have one that recently molted, and is pushing 3 in.  I see mine out all the time.  It is also the fastest T I've owned, mind boggling.  So far, very easy to keep, and very entertaining.


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## Storm76 (Sep 12, 2012)

KingCam said:


> This will be my first T.  I had a group of slings two years ago, but the heat went out that winter while I was away from home and they did not survive the chill.  They were still very small, maybe 1/2" each.  I'm just now getting around to giving this another try.


Just see that you are prepared as much as possible...they -are- fast and can be a handful, though both of mine seem to be mellow compared with my cambridgei female.



goodoldneon said:


> My 3” P. irminia is kept at room temperature – usually around 72-75 degrees – I wet her substrate/moss once a week – the majority of her humidity is provided via a water bowl - I don't shoot for specific temperatures or humidity ranges . She prefers to burrow rather than climb/web – this seems to be the case with all my arboreal spiders -  with the exception of my Avic. I won’t speak for the entire species, but my girl is very reclusive – she’ll take the occasional stroll – and her legs are often visible at the entrance of her burrow, but otherwise, I don’t see her very often. As you’ve probably heard, they can move extremely fast – from zero to teleport pretty much instantly. I’ve held mine on several occasions, but as she’s grown, she’s become a bit more defensive – so, I think my handling days are over (at least intentional handling).
> 
> They are absolutely gorgeous – congrats on the acquisition.


Mine are kept pretty much the same, though my 5" female is hiding for over a months now...they are very secretive and are known to hide most of the time, but strolling around their enclosures at night.


IMO, great choice. I started with a P. irminia and a B. smithi - never encountered a problem with them. Gorgeous looking T's for sure, one of the best looking in the hobby IMO. Post pics


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## KingCam (Sep 12, 2012)

skar said:


> Like I said if it works for you cool . I don't think it would be harmful ... alltho I tried the getting wood from outside thing, and got mold aft about a day so .. idk.





SamuraiSid said:


> I've done this a bunch of times too. Never tried store bought before. Sometimes I get mold, sometimes I dont. isopods are on my list of things to try.





Arachninja said:


> Bro just from my first eight P. irminias I have(which are two and a quarter inch slings I have noticed anything other than pure coco grows mold, and I mean everything even inoculated bamboo, wood, and soil.  I dont know why the coco husk just does not support the mold spores ever preasent in our air.  also peat and vermiculite do not as well as a mixture of all three.  Inoculated mulch, compost and wild soil all however have allways produced mold for me, at least around the base of the medium where the soil line is.


 I culture temperate springtails which are excellent at controlling mold growth.  I also culture sow bugs which eat fungi and other organic matter, including droppings.  I'm hoping between these two tank janitors I won't have an issue with mold.  I imagine the sow bugs will get eaten regularly by my tiger, but they are easily replaced.  The springtails will be far too small for the t to hunt. I guess if mold does become a problem I'll just have to put the spider on pure coco fiber and admit I was wrong.




skar said:


> The getting 20 spiders thing is just what seems to happen once you get 1 ... just sayin !!!!


That must be true, because you're not the first person to say something like that to me.  Kinda like getting your first tattoo right?  Gotta keep getting more after that.  (This is why I don't have a tattoo yet, haha)




Arachninja said:


> But you may be better off with a 3", good luck and to that irminia GOOD HUNTING, they are called "Suntiger" for a reason.


 Thank you! I am more excited to get her than I can express in written word XD




NoSBoH said:


> I have one that recently molted, and is pushing 3 in.  I see mine out all the time.  It is also the fastest T I've owned, mind boggling.  So far, very easy to keep, and very entertaining.





Storm76 said:


> Just see that you are prepared as much as possible...they -are- fast and can be a handful, though both of mine seem to be mellow compared with my cambridgei female.


 I'm trying to mentally prepare myself for how fast she is gonna be, because everyone keeps warning me about that.  Keep your fingers crossed for me, lol.  Regardless, I am very excited to get her!




Storm76 said:


> IMO, great choice. I started with a P. irminia and a B. smithi - never encountered a problem with them. Gorgeous looking T's for sure, one of the best looking in the hobby IMO. Post pics


 Thank you.  I'm quite pleased with my decision, and I haven't even received her yet, haha! I agree, they are beautiful.  There are only a few species I like in appearance more that I've seen.



Thanks for all of the helpful advice, guys!

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## Chris_Skeleton (Sep 12, 2012)

If you keep the substrate dry, you won't have to worry about mold.


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## jen650s (Sep 12, 2012)

IMHO if you loose a girlfriend over a spider she probably wasn't worth keeping anyway...(unless she is truely arachnophobic)  it's not like you are asking her to sleep with it. :laugh:  Interfering with your SO's passions and interests in never good relationship material unless it is to learn more about it your self...

Back on topic, I am with the don't paint the aquarium backdrop crowd.  Most hexagonal aquariums I've seen are acrylic and the carriers in some spray paints can damage the acrylic, plus if you don't put a bunch of time and energy into preping the tank it will flake off relatively fast even if you never touch it.



KingCam said:


> Oh I will, thanks!
> 
> haha, me too.  I'm gonna feel really stupid if I lose a girlfriend over a spider XD


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## KingCam (Sep 12, 2012)

jen650s said:


> IMHO if you loose a girlfriend over a spider she probably wasn't worth keeping anyway...(unless she is truely arachnophobic)  it's not like you are asking her to sleep with it. :laugh:  Interfering with your SO's passions and interests in never good relationship material unless it is to learn more about it your self...


 I think she'll be fine with it.  She did get bit by a spider a while back which led to some weird complications.  The thing bit her on the arm, but the venom pooled up in a lymphnode on her shoulder blade/lower neck area.  You can feel the knot that's still there from it.  Since then she gets a fair amount of neck pain and stuff.  Needless to say, she is not a fan of spiders.



jen650s said:


> Back on topic, I am with the don't paint the aquarium backdrop crowd.  Most hexagonal aquariums I've seen are acrylic and the carriers in some spray paints can damage the acrylic, plus if you don't put a bunch of time and energy into preping the tank it will flake off relatively fast even if you never touch it.


 This is an oldschool hex tank.  It's glass, sadly three of the panels are cracked, but they are all next to each other, so I consider it the back.  I will take your advice though, and not paint it.


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## KingCam (Sep 28, 2012)

She arrived today   I used sphagnum peat in the bottom, chunks of baked wood from the woods, and dry oak leaves all in one of those giant (3 gallon?) cheese puff jars.  The lid is window screen with a heavy duty rubberband.



















I am in love.  She's gorgeous!!!  (My GF disagrees, I think she's jealous XD)

EDIT:  I am going to add live plants tomorrow.  Forgot about them until after I put the spider in and I don't want to stress her out anymore tonight.

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## Storm76 (Sep 29, 2012)

Congrats  You can slowly adjust that T to a more dry enviroment if you like. A nicely sized waterdish instead of misting will do the trick.

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