# Avicularia morphotypes



## Venom1080 (Mar 31, 2019)

I made my thread about Avicularia care before the revision was published and so didn't include any of the new taxonomic updates. Here they are. almost two years later. I apologize if someone has already done this, but just recently it seems like some members could use some help on the subject. I'm no expert, and all of this is gathered on the authority of others, but so are most things. Deal with it.

Avicularia avicularia.

This is the most confusing one. This is one species that was split into six different morphotypes. All of which were separate species or at least seperated by localities before the revision.

I am NOT breaking down how to id everything as quite frankly, it's very difficult in alot of cases. There's a few people who seem to never have difficulty. CEC being one of them.

The original A avic is M1. This is the most common Avicularia in the trade and if you buy a random from a pet store, it's either this or M6 (metallica, specifically the blue form) 99% of the time. These are both from Guyana and are very easy to import. M1 is also sold as "sp blue velvet".

Morphotype 2 is braunshauseni. These are quite large and have alot of dense red hair on leg pair iv.

Morphotype 3 is possibly geroldi. This is a difficult one. These revisions aren't made for hobbyists but scientists, descriptions can be difficult. There may be a undescribed blue Avicularia I'm forgetting that the hobby considers to be here.

Morphotype 4 is azureklassi and sp Tambopota.

Morphotype 5 is again, possibly geroldi. And also velutina.

Morphotype 6 is the beloved metallica. There are two main localities here. The "green" Kwitara river variant, and the bluer variant from Guyana. Believe there is a third "metallica ceyanne" that is also here.

One species down.. maybe a couple localities missing, and I apologize for that. But I think this is a good starting point.

The other very confusing one is Avicularia juruensis. There are two morphotypes for the species.

M1
These are all generally brown/gold/green with golden banding of some sort. Big generalization, but accurate I believe.

Sp pucallpa, "green" urticans, aurantiaca, cf. aurantiaca, ulrichea all fall in here.

M2
Generally larger purple with golden bands. One of the most stunning in the genus btw. 

Sp Peru purple (sometimes sold as "sp purple) , urticans "purple", huriana all fall here.

These are the biggest changes to my knowledge, please correct any errors and feel free to ask for clarification. Hope this helps. 

PS
Just cause people still mess these up. I'll list them real quick.

Avicularia sp amazonica is now variegata. There is some speculation whether they are the real bicegoi or not. I don't know. You probably don't either, but if you have any info on it, again, please add to it.

Avicularia gamba, diversipes, and sooratama are all moved to the new genus Ybyrapora.

Avicularia versicolor and laeta are moved to the new genus Caribena.

Avicularia sp "Tarapoto" is now merianae.

Also, both sp Colombia and Ecuador are just locality variants of purpurea.

So, what we have here is a interesting mess to sort through. Not only do we now have to be cautious breeding the same Avicularia species, but also the same morphotype and (very) preferably the same locality. We want our "green" Metallica's to last darnit. Don't ruin the species for everyone. Be considerent.

PPS if youre wondering what the heck the Avicularia you got from Petco is, it's a M1 or 6. Probably.

Reactions: Like 9 | Thanks 1 | Agree 1 | Informative 5 | Helpful 1 | Love 1 | Award 6


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## docwade87 (Mar 31, 2019)

Maybe some pics with these if possible?!? That’d be awesome. Or would adding them as we comment be acceptable?

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## Venom1080 (Mar 31, 2019)

docwade87 said:


> Maybe some pics with these if possible?!? That’d be awesome. Or would adding them as we comment be acceptable?


The best I could do is just link the revision this is all based on. A few of these are very distinct looking, others not so much. (Referring specifically to A avicularia and it's morphotypes)

Geroldi, metallica, and braunshauseni are very obvious. The rest are kinda a blend IME. Pretty hard to separate.

https://zookeys.pensoft.net/article/10717/

Reactions: Like 2


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## docwade87 (Mar 31, 2019)

What about having some keepers who know for sure what they have post pics with appropriate identification?

A. Avic. M6 (Metallica)













Avic. Avic m6 WC #1



__ docwade87
__ Mar 30, 2019
__ 7
__
avicularia
avicularia avicularia
common pinktoe tarantula
guyana pinktoe tarantula
pinktoe tarantula




						This is my larger of the 2 I currently have. Finally let me snap a great pic!!
					




Was considering posting my C. Versicolor but it’s a Juvie...I’m thinking larger/ close to adult/mature adults would be more appropriate to post pics of?

Reactions: Like 2


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## Andrea82 (Mar 31, 2019)

docwade87 said:


> What about having some keepers who know for sure what they have post pics with appropriate identification?


This genus is really hard, next to impossible to id from pictures because of the resemblance of especially the Avicularia genus.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## docwade87 (Mar 31, 2019)

Andrea82 said:


> This genus is really hard, next to impossible to id from pictures because of the resemblance of especially the Avicularia genus.



True!


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## Crone Returns (Apr 1, 2019)

Venom1080 said:


> I made my thread about Avicularia care before the revision was published and so didn't include any of the new taxonomic updates. Here they are. almost two years later. I apologize if someone has already done this, but just recently it seems like some members could use some help on the subject. I'm no expert, and all of this is gathered on the authority of others, but so are most things. Deal with it.
> 
> Avicularia avicularia.
> 
> ...


You should get a mod to pin it. Great info. Thnxs

Reactions: Agree 3 | Love 1


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## AphonopelmaTX (Apr 1, 2019)

Andrea82 said:


> This genus is really hard, next to impossible to id from pictures because of the resemblance of especially the Avicularia genus.


A lot of people say this without providing any information as to the best way to identify Avicularia species and their morphotypes.  In your opinion, how is one supposed to identify the Avicularia spp. in their collection?


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## Andrea82 (Apr 1, 2019)

AphonopelmaTX said:


> A lot of people say this without providing any information as to the best way to identify Avicularia species and their morphotypes.  In your opinion, how is one supposed to identify the Avicularia spp. in their collection?


I'd ask a reputable breeder to stop by and help, or visit one, if I was unsure on which morphotype it is.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Venom1080 (Apr 1, 2019)

AphonopelmaTX said:


> A lot of people say this without providing any information as to the best way to identify Avicularia species and their morphotypes.  In your opinion, how is one supposed to identify the Avicularia spp. in their collection?


Know you weren't specifically asking me but.. 

Where it was collected is a huge deal. If you can get a location, you can generally narrow it down alot. This might be very difficult if not impossible to do however, but still worth a mention I think.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Ruhmat (Apr 4, 2019)

so juruensis is the one I'm confused on . on the the m1 I thought was rufa or did that get pushed to juruensis


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## Venom1080 (Apr 4, 2019)

Ruhmat said:


> so juruensis is the one I'm confused on . on the the m1 I thought was rufa or did that get pushed to juruensis


Avicularia rufa is ex-juruensis. before the morphotype business, Avicularia juruensis was one spider, after the revision it was Avicularia rufa and juruensis was used to describe spiders similar to the one in my profile pic.


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## CEC (Apr 5, 2019)

@Venom1080 
Thanks for putting this together. I have been meaning to make a post like this for awhile but just too much typing for me. Lol 
Good info here, just one little tweak I'd make... _Avicularia avicularia _morphotype_ #5 _are geographically separated from the other morphotypes, they were only found in Bolivia so it would consist of Hobby sp. Bolivia, sp. Rio Madre, sp. Riberalta etc... _Avicularia_ _veluntina_ and _Avicularia geroldi_ were described no where near there. Jus say'n.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Venom1080 (Apr 5, 2019)

CEC said:


> @Venom1080
> Thanks for putting this together. I have been meaning to make a post like this for awhile but just too much typing for me. Lol
> Good info here, just one little tweak I'd make... _Avicularia avicularia _morphotype_ #5 _are geographically separated from the other morphotypes, they were only found in Bolivia so it would consist of Hobby sp. Bolivia, sp. Rio Madre, sp. Riberalta etc... _Avicularia_ _veluntina_ and _Avicularia geroldi_ were described no where near there. Jus say'n.


Thanks for the input. You might, just maybe, know a little more than I do on the locality of these guys.


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## EtienneN (Apr 5, 2019)

Thank you for typing this up! It really makes things more clear for me.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Thekla (Apr 6, 2019)

@Venom1080 Thanks for this! 

I once tried to make an Avicularia genus overview, based on @Tomoran's blog post about the revision from March 2017.

Maybe this list helps a bit as well:



Thekla said:


> *Avicularia species (verified)*:
> 
> _Avicularia avicularia_
> _Avicularia glauca_
> ...

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## Tenebrarius (Apr 6, 2019)

this is even more confusing then it was before, I think I am just not going to care and just call my avic an avic. 

are these "morphs" or different species or different localities? So they are genetic variants that are not distinct enough to be separate species within the genus?


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## dangerforceidle (Apr 6, 2019)

Tenebrarius said:


> this is even more confusing then it was before, I think I am just not going to care and just call my avic an avic.
> 
> are these "morphs" or different species or different localities? So they are genetic variants that are not distinct enough to be separate species within the genus?


The morphs are different based on locality and morphological differences, but genetic analysis has not yet been done.  The paper says they are placed as they are now pending further analysis.

They should not be interbred, as they may not be in the same species once further analysis is completed.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Love 1


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## Tenebrarius (Apr 6, 2019)

dangerforceidle said:


> They should not be interbred, as they may not be in the same species once further analysis is completed


OK thank you a lot dude. This means the entirety of this is totally incomplete, and we are this is just how we can discern these spiders "for now". 

It is good these spiders care is generally the same.


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## CEC (Apr 13, 2019)

Tenebrarius said:


> OK thank you a lot dude. This means the entirety of this is totally incomplete, and we are this is just how we can discern these spiders "for now".
> 
> It is good these spiders care is generally the same.


Correct. The point of this revision was to set a standard for an Avicularia species. This genus is the oldest mygalomorph ever described and the description was quite vague. In turn, Avicularia was the most over described genus untill the revisions release in 2017. Avicularia caried 50 some species and is now down to 12. This genus has been a dumping ground since we started classifying Tarantulas. This may explain why the revision not only transferred arboreal species to other or new genera but also transferred terrestrial species as well.
The genus is thought to be described based on Maria Sibylla Merian's painting of a large spider eating a bird in a tree (Also the origins of the term "bird eater" or "bird spider") and not actually described by a specimen. Classification has become more precise and even more so recently with the introduction of DNA analysis but over that time Avicularia was placed on the back burner, no one wanted to attempt cleanup work of such magnitude. This revision was only the first major step and should be viewed as a foundation for future work to come.

Reactions: Like 5 | Informative 2


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## Thekla (May 25, 2019)

@Jim Cricket Why do you disagree?


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## Jim Cricket (May 25, 2019)

Thekla said:


> @Jim Cricket Why do you disagree?


iPad scrolling mistake
The more I learn the more I fall in love with Avics.

Reactions: Like 1


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## EtienneN (May 26, 2019)

Great I’m getting some kind of Avicularia species here in the next month or so and just reading all these species descriptions makes me want to get more than one!

Reactions: Love 1


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## Boaz Solorio (Dec 2, 2019)

I have an Avicularia merianae and Avicularia juruensis, is there any way to distinguish the morphotypes for A. juruensis as slings?


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## Venom1080 (Dec 3, 2019)

Boaz Solorio said:


> I have an Avicularia merianae and Avicularia juruensis, is there any way to distinguish the morphotypes for A. juruensis as slings?


No.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Frogdaddy (Dec 5, 2019)

My fear is that by the time this is all sorted out the Avics in the hobby will be one giant muddled mess of hybrids.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Arachnophoric (Dec 5, 2019)

Boaz Solorio said:


> I have an Avicularia merianae and Avicularia juruensis, is there any way to distinguish the morphotypes for A. juruensis as slings?


You can always ask the seller to see if they know.



Frogdaddy said:


> My fear is that by the time this is all sorted out the Avics in the hobby will be one giant muddled mess of hybrids.


I worry about this too with all the different Ts that got grouped under Juruensis M1 and M2. What's gonna happen if people start breeding anything labeled as "A. juruensis M1" together just for it to be decided that the Ts grouped under that name are in fact different species?

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding something but that right there sounds exactly like a hybridization nightmare.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Andrea82 (Dec 5, 2019)

Arachnophoric said:


> You can always ask the seller to see if they know.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sort of like the Brachypelma/Tliltocatl genera

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Arachnophoric (Dec 5, 2019)

Andrea82 said:


> Sort of like the Brachypelma/Tliltocatl genera


Yeah.  I'm just thankful the two juruensis M1 I got sent were clarified on which locality they are so I can label them as such. Hopefully more people are doing their part on keeping them separate and not breeding anything that can't be 100% identified, but I'm not the type to have a whole lot of faith in humans doing the responsible thing. I've already seen people selling/receiving them only labeled as A. juruensis M1/M2 without any mention of locality.


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## Frogdaddy (Dec 5, 2019)

Arachnophoric said:


> You can always ask the seller to see if they know.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I hope and have some faith that most breeders will not cross locales. 
We have the same dilemma in yhe dart frog world where one speices is found in six or eight separate locales. The responsible keepers keep locales and morphs true. 
It's always better to wait to breed when you have the proper information regarding specific locales or as a new species is classified as such. You can never go back and breed out or unhybridize. To reestablish pure bloodlines requires importation of new genetic stock from the wild and even then you're relying on truthful locale info from the importer.


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## VukSRB (Jul 20, 2020)

Gotta catch them all! And label... 40+ pinktoes 
"Bookmarked thread"

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Vulash (Sep 8, 2022)

I'm going to bump this with a question. Where does _Avicularia Metallica_ "white hairs" fall within this? Is it a 3rd form of the M6 morph? Is it another name for the blue or green variants of M6? Is it a different morph?


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