# Ok, so I am an idiot. I just bought an OBT.



## nexen (Feb 8, 2009)

I'm really new to this. I've had 2 rosies, an a.versicolor, and I just bought myself a beautiful and friendly GBB.

I was at a lps today and, lo and behold, they had an "Orange Starburst Baboon" for sale. I've been wanting something a "little meaner" so I decided to throw caution to the wind and buy it. Except I couldn't actually see the spider inside the tank. The employee said that he was "really small" The substrate was so shallow and the burrow hole was tiny that I figured it was a sling. I wanted to make sure it was in good health so I asked if I could lure him/him out of his burrow.  

Now, I've heard this species was fast so I kept the lid almost completely closed and poked in there with a pen.

BAM! Like greased lightning a 3" orange death machine flew out of the burrow, up the pen, and squeezed out through the crack of the container. 
I didn't get bit, but not because I didn't deserve it.

How are these things so fast?! My brain literally hadn't caught onto the fact that it had moved until it was already up and out of the tank and then hidden under the handle on the lid. I'm still in awe of this critter.

Needless to say much hilarity ensued as two store employees, one manager, and me, Mr. "how fast could they really be?" tried to wrangle the spider back into it's container while a bunch of customers looked on. Took about a half hour (or at least it felt that long to me) but I finally managed to do it without injuring the spider or anyone else. 

After all of that I wasn't about to say "on second thought, I think I'll brush up on my skills before taking this particular leap." So now I have an orange death machine in a kritter keeper on my T shelf. I still have to put his water dish back in.

Any words of wisdom for someone who just got in way over their head here? Don't get me wrong, I'm excited to have him/her (I think it is a she actually, since I got a good look at the undercarriage during the pursuit) but ... man. This is a FAST spider.

PS. See you in the bite reports thread!


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## clam1991 (Feb 8, 2009)

there not as bad as you think

give em a bunch of dirt and try not to bug it and it'll be fine

they arent nearly as deff out of their tank as in it


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## Arachtis (Feb 8, 2009)

In my experiences, once the spider establishes it's territory inside of the enclosure, it will more often than not run for cover as soon as you open the lid. As long as you are smart, and exercise a bit of caution when doing cage maintenance, you really shouldn't run into any major problems.


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## syndicate (Feb 8, 2009)

my advise is make sure you have a large pair of forceps for cage maintenance!


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## Arachtis (Feb 8, 2009)

syndicate said:


> my advise is make sure you have a large pair of forceps for cage maintenance!


Yes I agree that can help a lot.


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## Spider787 (Feb 8, 2009)

Want to see fast get a pokie lol.  Obts have a bad rep for being agressive but they are not as bad as some would tell you.  They will turn to fight but usually not until cornered or for a last resort just respect it and you will be fine great Ts enjoy....


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## JasonCrowl (Feb 8, 2009)

*Obt*

I got one in November, and it's a juv.....I gave it quite a bit of substrate, and unfortunately I never see it, but with common sense, they are quite easy to manage....


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## bamato (Feb 8, 2009)

You're not an idiot.  You're an enthusiast whom wants to expand his collection   Enjoy your new addition


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## Nerri1029 (Feb 8, 2009)

Not detracting from your experience, because they are fast !! 

I have had more than  my share of these ( currently I have 80+ slings) but I say with confidence that my S. calceatum are even faster.

So like the others said, use your head, and you will enjoy this T safely.


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## matthias (Feb 8, 2009)

bamato said:


> You're not an idiot.  You're an enthusiast whom wants to expand his collection   Enjoy your new addition


Agreed. OBT is more a joke than anything. They are fast and defensive. But treat them with respect and you will never have a problem.


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## scar is my t (Feb 8, 2009)

ummmmmm all i can say is your kinda screwed but i would have to say that ummmmmmmm i got nothing :wall:


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## christian77 (Feb 8, 2009)

I agree, I have 2 of them and they are not all that bad. as with any T use some caution and your head. :?   they will run and hide before they attack. unless you give them a reason:}  they are extemely easy to take care of as in being extremely hardy ,so take your time and don't try to over care for them until you learn their habits and feel a little more comfortable.


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## CT9A (Feb 8, 2009)

Be wary when you do cage maintenance, make sure you use long tweezers to be safe. For watering, you can even use a turkey baster if you feel uncomfortable. At first OBTs seem really fast, but you will get used to it. Be careful to not get bitten!


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## tarantulaholic (Feb 8, 2009)

There not that bad once there used to there container. I feed my 5"+ female, with lid open. She web the whole top area of the driftwood. 
I used to leave the top open duriing feeding time, till last month she was missing, after I came back from having dinner downstars. Luckily she hid behind the surround sound wirings. 
BTW, this OBT is very mellow, I once traded in another smaller OBT bec it was very defensive, but way smaller.


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## Sterlingspider (Feb 8, 2009)

I just got my first one too (doing my part to help Nerri1029 with that pesky 80+ sling problem) and now that it has established a burrow it's almost more like I have one of those underwater tube worms.

I'll see little feet edging out of a tubeweb _ever so slowly_ until I can see about 4 feet and maybe the littlest bit of prosoma, and then with the tiniest of disturbances... SHOOP! back in the hole.

Like so: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPf0teAOmPs


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## T_DORKUS (Feb 8, 2009)

Definitely not an idiot for getting one.  They are more interesting, prettier and cost less than most T's.   A pretty wise choice if you exercise some caution when dealing with them.


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## Drachenjager (Feb 8, 2009)

Spider787 said:


> Want to see fast get a pokie lol.  Obts have a bad rep for being agressive but they are not as bad as some would tell you.  They will turn to fight but usually not until cornered or for a last resort just respect it and you will be fine great Ts enjoy....


my singapore blue makes my pokies look like snails.


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## testdasi (Feb 8, 2009)

I found the solution pretty easily but I don't know if you still can do it. What I did was to creat a hide/burrow system that can be covered on both open ends. I just cover both ends while doing cage mantenance. The OBT prefers to hide inside and not get out unless necessary.


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## Neophyte (Feb 8, 2009)

I find the OBT to be a fun spider to add to anyones collection. It's beautiful and the fact that it can be so aggressive makes it that much more interesting.
When it's gotten comfortable the chances of it leaving it's web is slim, although it can still happen. So try not to poke at it, that's how I've seen most of them escape. (on YouTube)
With a little common sense and some getting used to, you should probably not have any problems =)

Good luck!


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## codykrr (Feb 8, 2009)

your not an idiot.....but words of wisdom...get tweezers....not that your going to need them , also congradulations to buying your new pet hole! also keep dry with a water dish, and never get bit...muscle spasms suck! also be ware of the nature boy;P  and trust me enjoy....i have 10 of these orange devils all juveniles. got bit once so far but was my fault...also, there not so fast i mean yeah there fast but only for like 3 feet then boom, they stop dead in there tracks...and by the way when is said tweezers i mean 12 inch once...but another warning...these can easily become a "highway to your hand"


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## NixHexDude (Feb 8, 2009)

You'll be fine. Just be as calm as you can when doing feeding, maintenance etc. You will build your comfort level. I was terrified when I got mine 2 years back, and now I don't bat an eye around her. I personally use a screen top so i can dump water right in the dish. She runs and hides when I open the lid, which yours doesn't seem to want to do. 

I would advise moving the cage to an open area when you have to crack the lid. Although they are fast, they can't go far. If it gets out, you can easily recapture it this way. They are much less scary when you have them out on the floor in an open room. Keep a cup handy to catch it and some cardboard to slide underneath. Worst case scenario you have to catch it, but this can only help you shed the fear. Also, long tweezers are a must for any T keeper, especially feisty ones.


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## nexen (Feb 8, 2009)

Phew. Thanks for the encouragement! ( well, except from scar  ) She's a beautiful little girl and I think I got her for a rock bottom price, so I'm really happy. I just hope I remain as lucky as I was today when I make my next inevitable stupid mistakes. You all might think they are underrated but I've only been keeping really easy Ts up to this point so it really feels like I've gone from an economy car to a Ferrari. So incredibly fast...I still cant believe how she moved today.

I've since braved filling replacing and filling her water dish. She's gone back to being invisible so it was a non-event. Actually she's also completely closed her burrow entrance off and is just buried. I read some do this occasionally so I shouldn't be alarmed....right? It's literally an inch of substrate with a larger lump where she's hiding so I dont expect that it would be much trouble for her to escape.

Tomorrow - the rehousing! This particular lps had her housed decently (surprise, surprise), but I think I'd like to give her some more depth to burrow into.

Never had a pet get my heart rate up like that before. I kind of liked it.


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## nexen (Feb 9, 2009)

So tongs, double-ended hide (tube of some sort?), benedryl and grain alcohol. Ok, I go shopping after work tomorrow.

A few other Qs if you kind folk would oblige me:

1) Is the coloration set at this size? (~3 inches with legs when she was huddled in the plastic handle) Shes more of a beige than an orange right now. I do like her look but I see some people's OBT pictures/videos and they are a brilliant orange...

2) Can I influence her burrow/web behavior in any way? I'd be happy with her as a pet hole but I'd much rather her web and stay out in the open like I think I've read others do.

Thanks!


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## IrishKnight (Feb 9, 2009)

i plan to get an OBT,Pmetallica and H.lividum as soon as i have enough experience and courage to get these faster and more defensive Ts lol


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## codykrr (Feb 9, 2009)

1. yes she will get bright orange within the next 2 molts
2. you can just dont give as much substrate and more suff to climb on, but...and yeah here is the "but" if she wants to burrow she will just make elabrate tube webs under the surface of the dirt so either way they will be a pet hole....also if they go arboreal(climb) there webbing is so thick there hard to see anyway.


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## codykrr (Feb 9, 2009)

IrishKnight said:


> i plan to get an OBT,Pmetallica and H.lividum as soon as i have enough experience and courage to get these faster and more defensive Ts lol


trust me...none of the species are cracked up to what there supposed to be...obts hide more than anything, h. lividium is the biggest pet hole ever!(also rarely seen except late at night) and p. mettalica well i dont have one but i here there fast but highly skittish. i personally wouldnt let a little speed and defensiveness keep you from owning some of the more regarded Ts, as long as you respect them, use caution, and some common sence, you will do fine..but, if you dont feel comfortable with doing so then your probly not ready


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## nexen (Feb 9, 2009)

codykrr said:


> 1. yes she will get bright orange within the next 2 molts


Thank you, I was hoping to hear that! The pics of the bright orange ones are so amazing - they're why I picked this species. Even so I'd have bought her anyways just because I wanted an OBT and the only place that carries Ts around here (that I will patronize) will not stock OBTs because of their rep. They had a h.lividum though so...go figure.



codykrr said:


> 2. you can just dont give as much substrate and more suff to climb on, but...and yeah here is the "but" if she wants to burrow she will just make elabrate tube webs under the surface of the dirt so either way they will be a pet hole....also if they go arboreal(climb) there webbing is so thick there hard to see anyway.


Ok thanks. I'm going to try that when I rehouse her. Even if I dont see her I'd rather see a bunch of webbing than a bunch of dirt. 
Of course she's literally buried herself under an inch of dirt right now so I don't hold much hope. She is a dirt bump.


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## Kamikaze (Feb 9, 2009)

an excellent choice. OBTs are defensive T's but really interesting.
Also, they're not hard to breed when breeding time comes.
Good luck!


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## ph0bia (Feb 9, 2009)

My first spider was a P.Chordatus, apparently very similar, but I do have a P.Murinus juve also. They have a real bad rep as "super mean and nasty", just don't poke them in their hole. Here's a few tips:

1. They can be fed in a really cute way. Once they've established a burrow, hold your hopper (or cricket) by its back legs with forceps and lower it in front of the burrow. More often than not, the spider darts forward and takes it from the tweezers. Very cute. Just don't do it too often, let it hunt too.

2. Be careful when removing the lid. Check where the spider is and open the lid slowly. If it's on the side and you yank the lid off, it will usually 'teleport' further up the side and down the other onto the floor. If this happens, just carefully pot it back in.

3. If you want to lure it out, don't poke the hide. If it's webbed against something outside the hide, stroke this item with the forceps or even stroke the dirt it's webbed on just outside. You should see it calmly coming to investigate. When it's about to touch the forceps, move them back a little and keep stroking. You can usually lure them out this way.

4. They're a brilliant species. You're not an idiot at all! Just treat the creature with respect, and don't expect it to be all cuddly and friendly. They're very territorial. Personally, I find my H.Albostriatum far fiercer... and she's half the size of my P.Murinus juve. 

5. Once they've established their burrows, they tend to be much mellower when out of it. They're very fast and will either dart for the burrow or for higher ground when disturbed. See point 2 on this. 

As I said, as long as you treat it with a little more respect than you would your rosie, they're a lovely species. And showing it feeding to friends (as described in point 1) is a really cute and quite exciting little experience. No other T I've ever seen will do this besides Pterinochilus species.

Enjoy your feisty little wonder!

*EDIT*: Just read your question about her throwing dirt up against the entrance and blocking herself in. Two things to say here:

1. They will do this whilst getting used to their burrow and setting it up and modifying it. They block the entrance so that food and other inquisitive things don't poke their nose in whilst she's doing the interior decor, so to speak. Usually means she's webbing the walls of the burrow for stability, or excavating further. It's a good sign.

2. Don't worry about it, even should part of the burrow collapse. Remember this: When she began digging, the hole was smaller than a collapse or blockage (ie, there was no hole). She burrowed in, so she can burrow back out no trouble. =)

Also, in regards to the webbing rather than burrowing... When I first got my P.Chordatus (a good 5" legspan) I only had enough substrate from the pet store to give her like 1" at max depth in her enclosure. She went under a plant (a fake one that can best be imagined as a rock with a disc of leaves just above it) and made a tunnel of web using the leaves as the roof, the side of the enclosure as one wall and then just made a tunnel with the rest. This was cool as I could clearly see her in it. About a week ago, she decided to take all this down so I moved her into a box last night and filled her enclosure with more substrate to see how she goes with that.

Sorry for the long post!!!


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## NixHexDude (Feb 9, 2009)

Personally, I'd recommend waiting to rehouse until after a molt. OBT's are pretty tough, so it probably won't have averse effects. But with all the action of being bought and escaping etc, I'd let it molt and then fatten up before rehousing it. Rehousing puts a reasonable amount of stress on the spider. If it barricaded the entrance, it may be preparing to molt as it is.


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## Rochelle (Feb 9, 2009)

Your story of the escape attempt at the store was hilarious...and you are not an idiot for buying an obt.  
These kids tend to be much more tractable outside of their tanks...






However - be careful with tong feeding inside the enclosure. These kids will happily run right up the tongs so fast you will only see the vapor trail left behind them... 
I have to agree with previous posters, though ~ pokies and Singapores are waaaay faster than obt's.


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## Neophyte (Feb 9, 2009)

IrishKnight said:


> i plan to get an OBT,Pmetallica and H.lividum as soon as i have enough experience and courage to get these faster and more defensive Ts lol


Just get a OBT sling. It helps alot.


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## nexen (Feb 9, 2009)

ph0bia said:


> [...lots of awesome info...]
> Sorry for the long post!!!


Don't be sorry! I'm going to make notes of all of that! Thanks so much!


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## nexen (Feb 9, 2009)

NixHexDude said:


> Personally, I'd recommend waiting to rehouse until after a molt. OBT's are pretty tough, so it probably won't have averse effects. But with all the action of being bought and escaping etc, I'd let it molt and then fatten up before rehousing it. Rehousing puts a reasonable amount of stress on the spider. If it barricaded the entrance, it may be preparing to molt as it is.


Ok thanks. I'll follow that advice. 

I pretty much annihilated her burrow in the panic that followed the escape so I imagine she's just constructing it fresh again instead of molting. But how can I tell if shes molting if she's buried anyways? She does have a couple of crickets in there left over from the pet store so I want to remove them if shes going to molt.


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## nexen (Feb 9, 2009)

Rochelle said:


> These kids tend to be much more tractable outside of their tanks...


Whoa. I've also seen some people hold these guys on youtube. One crazy guy had an OBT crawling over his face. 
I'm not quite there yet, I think.

I'll pick up my other guys if I need a handling fix. This one is going to be a look-don't-touch pet for the short term


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## ph0bia (Feb 9, 2009)

nexen said:


> Don't be sorry! I'm going to make notes of all of that! Thanks so much!


Awesome! I'm glad you find it useful. My P.Chordata is possibly my favourite T (I love the looks and she's got so much spirit! - But if not, my B.Auratum for looks and cuteness) but close second(third) is my P.Murinus. Feeding her from the forceps is so cute, and whilst fast, the dash is like 3 foot max.

They're a good start for getting onto more aggressive species (No way in hell I'd have coped rehousing my H.Albostriatum without the training my Chordata gave me!) and to be honest, I prefer them!

Pterinochilus = fave genus

If you do happen to have any further questions, do feel free to PM me if you wish (or to just post here =P).


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## nexen (Feb 9, 2009)

ph0bia said:


> If you do happen to have any further questions, do feel free to PM me if you wish (or to just post here =P).


Thanks ph0bia, I just may take you up on that!


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## Stan Schultz (Feb 9, 2009)

nexen said:


> Ok, so I am an idiot. I just bought an OBT. ... Any words of wisdom for someone who just got in way over their head here? ...


Not so much an idiot. These are fascinating and beautiful tarantulas. While they seem to have a permanent chip on their shoulders, they also have a certain appeal because of their habit of webbing up their cages and their coloring. Don't sell them short. They're quite popular as pets.

Most important, OBTs have a "medically significant bite." Do not attempt to handle or manipulate it without wearing *light*, leather gloves. In over 40 years of handling literally thousands of tarantulas we've never been bitten through a pair of light leather work gloves. You can get a pair at nearly any hardware store or garden shop.

Use a light weight, plastic drinking glass (maybe left over from a recent party) to move the tarantula. Transparent is best so you can see what it's doing. Merely wait until it's in the correct position and carefully lower the glass over it. It'll have its usual hissy-fit, but inside the glass. Slide a small piece of light cardboard (from a cereal box, for instance) under the glass to hold it in, and transfer it to its new place with relative safety.

*WARNING: INCOMING, UNABASHED COMMERCIAL PLUG!*
If you are bitten, take both the tarantula and a copy of the _Tarantula Keeper's Guide_ to your nearest medical emergency room and ask for a shot of Demerol for the pain. You need the show-and-tell materials to convince them that you're not just another druggie off the street trying to get a free fix. (The reason we mention the _Guide_ is that of all tarantula care books, apparently it alone contains a section describing what to do in case you're bitten, including the use of Demerol.)
*END - COMMERCIAL PLUG*

After you've been around your OBT for a few days or weeks you'll learn how it behaves and be able to predict its reactions a little better. After it settles down and gets accustomed to its new cage it'll choose one area to reside in and the rest to merely hunt or prowl in. Once you notice this you can use the cage cover as a barrier between yourself and the tarantula to allow you to safely work in the cage, even quite close to the tarantula. This is a great help in servicing the water dish and removing dead crickets, for instance.

You can expedite its "accustomization" by supplying it with a small cave-like ornament to hide in. Many of these are sold by pet shops, but you can get creative as well with things you might find around the home. Be sure to avoid anything made of cedar!

Another trick is to acquire a medium sized plastic container (e.g., a 1 pint - 500 ml - transparent plastic deli cup, or for larger tarantulas a transparent plastic candy tub from a corner convenience store) and merely drop it over the tarantula when you need to work in the cage. The spider remains trapped under the clear plastic container while you work, and you can see what it's doing anytime you need to.

Many OBTs fill their cages with webbing to the point where you can hardly see the water dish, much less get to it to fill it. From a drugstore, your doctor, or a veterinarian get a 60 ml hypodermic syringe. Fit it with a 12" (30 cm) length of standard aquarium airline tubing instead of a needle and use that to fill the water dish by merely poking it through the webbing. The tarantula may have another hissy-fit because of the intrusion, but when it's thirsty it's more than capable of tearing through the excess webbing to get to the water.

Several other people have also mentioned using a pair of long forceps (tongs) for picking out dead crickets and dirty webbing. These can be had for relatively little money at tool stores and mechanic's supply houses. Many auto parts stores also stock them.

Whenever you need to work in the cage with the tarantula (e.g., cleaning) do it in the bathroom. Remove everything movable (e.g., scale, hamper, trash can, towels, extra toilet paper) out of the place to reduce the number of uncontrollable hiding places and scatter 2 or 3 rumpled towels in the corners. These will serve as hiding places for the tarantula if it gets loose. (Half the battle of getting it back into its cage is knowing where it is!)

Move all the paraphernalia, tools and supplies you'll need into the bathroom. Don't forget to move the tarantula in there too.

Let everyone in your home know that you're temporarily commandeering the bathroom for half an hour to an hour and they'd better do whatever they need to do now because they're not going to want to drop their drawers in there once you turn that spider loose. 

Tape a "Do Not Disturb" sign to the outside of the door as a reminder. *Do not lock the door.* If you need help, someone will have to be able to easily get in to help you.

Roll a large bath towel into a long sausage shape and use it to block the space under the bathroom door to prevent the tarantula from getting out into the rest of your home.

*Work in the bathtub.* (Need we mention that you're kneeling outside the tub while the tarantula, cages, and tools are inside it?) Having to run up the bathtub walls will slow it down enough to give you a fighting chance if it tries to make a break for it. *BE SURE TO PLUG ANY AND ALL DRAINS.* You might want to throw one rumpled towel into one end of the tub as a controllable hiding place, too.

When cleaning its cage, it is best to have another clean cage ready for it, allowing you to do one quick move from the old, dirty cage to the new, clean one. Not only is this a lot safer for both you and the tarantula, but there will always be someone in your home who ignores all your best efforts at warning them about not using the bathroom. They will need to use the bathroom on an emergency basis smack in the middle of the operation. We guarantee it! A simple move from one cage to another takes a lot less time and therefore will make your house mates a lot happier, too.

Lastly, these tricks don't only work with OBTs. They're also handy with almost any obstreperous tarantula. Once you've had a little experience with OBTs, there's a pretty good chance you're going to want to keep some of the other not-so-handleable species. Many of them are drop dead gorgeous and easily worth the small added caution required when working around them.

Enjoy your little banshee from Hell!


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## ph0bia (Feb 10, 2009)

Man alive, you demonize them SO much! 

I've never had ANY issues with either of mine, either juve or adult. Moving was as straightforward as it is for any spider (just don't handle). I just move her carefully from her enclosure into a small travel enclosure that I got (an icecream tub in essence), do the work and then prop her back.

They're much more likely to run than to bite if they're not in their burrow, and they only dash a maximum of three feet at mature. My juve teleports, but only ever as far as twelve inches. Easy to control.

I understand what you're getting at with the above post, that it's better safe than sorry, but demonizing them breeds fear for these spiders and it's something I don't believe they deserve. Being scared of it is going to cause you issues because 1) You can't enjoy the spider, 2) Doing maintenance etc is going to be dangerous for you and the spider if you're shaking and jumping all over the place.

Just treat these guys with respect. It's all they need.


As anecdotal, I once took the top off a wee bit fast before my P.Murinus had settled in properly, before she'd taken to her burrow, and she shot up my arm to my elbow. I wasn't even in a T-shirt. I carefully put my hand in front of her, poked her back legs and placed her back in. I'd not recommend trying this, but I had little choice. THEY ARE NOT AS DEFENSIVE WHEN THEY ARE OUTSIDE THEIR BURROW.

When they're inside the burrow it's a different matter because that's their territory and there is nowhere to run.

Also, from what I hear of reports of the bite it's just a long ache for a fortnight and muscle cramps for a bit longer after. Yes, head to the hospital with it, but I doubt they'd assume you're a druggy if you show them the bite-marks, and trying to pen up the tarantula to take with you ain't gonna be easy (no way I'm taking her full enclosure with me) and could result in further bites if you've already pissed it off.


End of the day, what I'm getting at is that *these guys SERIOUSLY aren't as bad as people make out. Breeding fear is only going to put people off them and cause accidents with those who do have them.
Respect them, treat them carefully, but there's no need to be afraid.*


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## jb7741 (Feb 10, 2009)

ph0bia said:


> Man alive, you demonize them SO much!


You don't want to make it out as though they are hell bent on your destruction, but they are nicknamed "orange bitey things" for a reason.

You don't hear of the dreaded BBT: brown bitey things, or ABT: avic bitey things.

I haven't had any problems out of mine either, but they are protectors of their own homes for sure.

Just be smart and they are really cool.  Everyone needs at least one OBT in their collection.

Oh, and no matter how cool their feet look, don't go touching them as it only pisses them off.


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## ph0bia (Feb 10, 2009)

jb7741 said:


> I haven't had any problems out of mine either, but they are protectors of their own homes for sure.


And that's all they are, in my opinion. When you observe their behavior; if they are outside the burrow and you startle them, they either run for the burrow (if it's in dash distance) or for cover or higher ground (these two often go together to mean "the top corner of the tank"). If they are inside the burrow, they cannot run thus their only defense is to bite, also if someone were poking into your home unwelcomely, wouldn't you fight back a bit?

It's my opinion that all the people who get 'attacked' by their spiders just aren't respecting them; they're either poking them to try and get them out to show them off, trying to handle them or otherwise just ignoring the spiders best interests. I'm sick of people poking their P.Murinus to get it out to show people. There are better ways to lure it out and why do you need to disturb it? No wonder these people get bitten.

Would you poke a sleeping lion to show your family the reaction?


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## D-back (Feb 10, 2009)

ph0bia said:


> It's my opinion that all the people who get 'attacked' by their spiders just aren't respecting them; they're either poking them to try and get them out to show them off, trying to handle them or otherwise just ignoring the spiders best interests.


Robc is a very experienced T keeper and despite of this, he was bitten by his murinus... ....he said (and I believe him), he was not trying to handle the T and he didn't poke him either....Accidents CAN happen with anyone...You lose your concentration for one second and..... .......You can probably get away with it 10 times or 20 times ...or 50 times, but not every time. And if you are keeping Ts for 10 years for example, it's very probable, that you will lose your comcentration sometimes.....


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## JNG (Feb 10, 2009)

why does gettin an OBT make you an idiot? I got one, and i've only been in this less than a month.


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## Rochelle (Feb 10, 2009)

Uhhh...I don't see anything in Pikaia's post that demonizes obt's. :?  In fact, MR. SCHULTZ wholeheartedly wishes enjoyment of these little hellions... 
Thank you Stan for the time you took to so completely answer a new collector's questions. We know how valuable your time is and we are very grateful for the decades (6!) of experience and humor that you bothered to share with us.  

As Always,
Rochelle


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## Snuggles (Feb 10, 2009)

nexen, you are going to LOVE your OBT (if you don't already!).  

I received one unexpectedly as a freebie.  I got some good advice on the ATS boards, and I'd like to think the OBT and I have since developed a mutual respect.   

Have fun!


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## ph0bia (Feb 10, 2009)

My first was sold as a P.murinus (turned out to be a P.chordata) but I've since bought a P.murinus juve. 

Whilst they're not recommended as a starter tarantula, it's given me a lot of experience in a very short time and I feel I could now deal with pokies and other species like H.albostriatum, which I have, and H.maculata (which my girlfriend has).

Also, I respect that incredibly experienced keepers can be bitten, it happens. Didn't Richard Hammond crash a car and nearly kill himself?

I'll repeat, treat them with respect and be cautious when near their hide and you'll be fine. I just think referring to a species as "little banshee from Hell" is a little unfair. It's not as if the spider is going to hunt you with no reason.


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## Snuggles (Feb 10, 2009)

Rochelle said:


> Uhhh...I don't see anything in Pikaia's post that demonizes obt's. :?  In fact, MR. SCHULTZ wholeheartedly wishes enjoyment of these little hellions...
> Thank you Stan for the time you took to so completely answer a new collector's questions. We know how valuable your time is and we are very grateful for the decades (6!) of experience and humor that you bothered to share with us.
> 
> As Always,
> Rochelle


Agreed!  :clap: 

Good information.  In fact, I printed it to take home.  I have been looking for information just like that.  Cant wait for your newest book, Mr. Schultz.  I've been preordered since last year!


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## ph0bia (Feb 10, 2009)

xD Did I just argue with THE Stanley Schultz?! *faints* X_x

Ah well, everyone is entitled to their viewpoints, that's how science works (!), but I still stand by my statements that they're not quite as bad as some people make out. When I see a video of someone being chased around their specimen room by an angry P.murinus, I'll back down.


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## Nerri1029 (Feb 10, 2009)

ph0bia said:


> Man alive, you demonize them SO much!
> 
> I've never had ANY issues with either of mine, either juve or adult. ...
> 
> ...


So from what I read:
- you have two total? and are making broad generalizations from that?

- You've had escapes.

- You are accusing most of us of breeding fear.


I will respond with:

- first - you have the right to your opinion. and BTW I love the Pterinochilus genus as well.

- I will also agree that some of my OBT's have been rather timid. BUT I currently own 2 that are lucifer incarnate. One breath on the webbing, one drop of water and they are rearing and striking for the next 5 minutes.
It is these "pterrors" that give them their reputation.

- as for your critique of Pikaia's post.  I do not agree that this is breeding fear. But rather a GREAT place to start for someone not used to dealing with defensive T's. In fact the OP admitted that they were inexperienced.  In time they will learn the characteristics/ temperment of their own OBT gradually, and will then be able to relax certain precautions or not.

- I work in a lab, all substances are treated the same. Is that breeding fear? no it's breeding respect and proper handling practices. It's training people to use safe techniques as a habit, not "Only for the really dangerous stuff"


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## ph0bia (Feb 10, 2009)

Of course treating all substances the same doesn't breed fear. That's because you're 'respecting' each substance.
If you sit and say to someone "This tarantula is an evil banshee, it will try and attack you at every possibility and come at you without you even knowing, biting you before you know it's there with highly potent venom" it's kinda going overboard.

Try "They can be very fast and defensive, so exercise caution around them".



> So from what I read:
> - you have two total? and are making broad generalizations from that?
> 
> - You've had escapes.
> ...


I have two total, yes, but have dealt with many more. As I've stated numerous times I've helped my girlfriend with hers (we think it's a P.Murinus, possibly Chordata) and I've worked at a pet-store and rehoused many of them. Other friends have P.murinus also.

Escapes? Not really, no. If by 'escape' you mean they've touched floor, then yes, but about 2" from the container. Not exactly an escape considering it then just sat there. I'd not consider the run-up-the-arm and escape either, considering that for that period, my arm was an extension of her enclosure.

Also, by outside of her burrow, I mean in her enclosure as well. The burrow is under a cork bark piece, about 2"x4", the enclosure is a good 8"x14". If she's on the other side of the enclosure (as she was often when first placed in there) she was far calmer. In fact, when she's there drinking, I can usually modify the enclosure, remove prey etc without her even darting.

Accusing you of breeding fear? Perhaps. I'm merely suggesting some people go overboard when it comes to OBT (Originally Orange Baboon Tarantula, later bastardized to Orange Bitey Thing). Hell, I've seen some pretty angry G.Rosea, there's a topic on these very forums (recent) of a guy who's rosie is going insane at him whenever he goes near the tank.

Yes, P.murinus is a great place to start if you want to get to more aggressive Ts. But isn't that backing up what I'm saying? If these things were so freaking evil and dangerous, they'd no be a "great place to start" and we'd be recommending people to go for Haplopelma before P.murinus. The fact that we recommend P.murinus as a "beginners aggressive" surely means they're not as bad as some people make out? We don't get horrendously long posts from people going "Oh dammit, I just bought a Haplopelma... This thing is so evil, whatever will I do?" like they do with P.murinus.

This, to me, means an unfair demonization, and more than a little hipocritical.


*EDIT:* I'm not trying to be argumentative, I just seriously think that if we recommend them as 'beginner agressives' then yes, they can be aggressive, but not nearly as bad as the reputation they seem to have.


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## nexen (Feb 10, 2009)

Pikaia said:


> [things I am printing out and memorizing]
> Enjoy your little banshee from Hell!


Thanks a million! I have your book and am anxiously awaiting the new edition. It's been a great help to me.

Also - I wanted report that my dirt bump emerged from where she had buried herself this morning and pretended to be arboreal for a bit. Now she is busily re-excavating. Reminds me of those ear bugs in the cage in Wrath of Khan. Dirt moving all around, but nothing to be seen...


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## T_DORKUS (Feb 10, 2009)

ph0bia,
pikaia gave a long list of pointers to minimize the risk of an accident and you accuse him of demonizing the species. 

If you read the bite reports from this T you will have noticed that other than that one guy who was drunk and one or two others, most were doing very normal things like unpacking a T, house cleaning etc.  so your "theory" that people get bit because they messed with their T's needs some work.

Lastly, trying to convince others that this is not a species to be "feared" is hardly giving this T the respect it deserves.  Just count the number of bite reports from this T and you'll know why it's called the OBT.


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## ph0bia (Feb 10, 2009)

*sigh* I merely am saying that use of language in his post seemed far more OTT than needed.


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## nexen (Feb 10, 2009)

JNG said:


> why does gettin an OBT make you an idiot? I got one, and i've only been in this less than a month.


Yeah, I wanted to clear this up because people seem to take it the wrong way. I was calling myself an idiot for getting one because the thing scared me half to death when it escaped and I'm not sure I was(am) ready for it. For more experienced keepers I consider it a far different story. I've only been in this for about four months. (Not judging you, maybe you take it up quicker than me) and I feel it would have been much smarter to work my way up slower. I bought: Rosie, another rosie, an a.versi sling, a GBB sling, then an OBT!

That being said, having her is a lot of fun for me because she gets my heart racing. All the information I've read and the encouragement on here had sigificantly raised my level of comfort. I'm just going to be neurotically careful with her until I have more experience. My other spiders I think of as 'cute' and let them crawl all over me. Not my OBT - its all tongs with her. 

The spider expert at my favorite pet store has also threatened to kick my rear for buying her! He was bitten by one and said it was nine hours of sheer agony. He regularly stocks some species that many on here seem to consider more dangerous (haplos and pokies) but I think he received a really large dose of venom on this particular bite.


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## ph0bia (Feb 10, 2009)

As I said, I got P.chordatus as my first, thinking it was a P.murinus colour-morph. I don't think there is a "too-fast", yes, I found her heartracing at first, but now she's no big worry. You get used to them really fast, Nexen =)


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## D-back (Feb 10, 2009)

> Enjoy your little banshee from Hell!


I might be wrong, but in this particular case, I see a lot of humor in this sentence... I think, it wasn't meant as a serious warning...


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## nexen (Feb 10, 2009)

ph0bia said:


> As I said, I got P.chordatus as my first, thinking it was a P.murinus colour-morph. I don't think there is a "too-fast", yes, I found her heartracing at first, but now she's no big worry. You get used to them really fast, Nexen =)


Good to know. For now I'm going to rely on caffeine and adrenaline to keep up. And first thing I do when I work in her cage is to put her keeper in the middle of the tub. :}


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## nexen (Feb 10, 2009)

Snuggles said:


> nexen, you are going to LOVE your OBT (if you don't already!).
> 
> I received one unexpectedly as a freebie.  I got some good advice on the ATS boards, and I'd like to think the OBT and I have since developed a mutual respect.
> 
> Have fun!


Thanks!
I have to admit that I find her a lot more fun than my other species.


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## nexen (Feb 10, 2009)

D-back said:


> I might be wrong, but in this particular case, I see a lot of humor in this sentence... I think, it wasn't meant as a serious warning...


Yeah, that kind of settles it. I was wondering what to name her - I'm calling her "Banshee" now.


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## Locutus (Feb 10, 2009)

Nice thread, I will receive my own OBT's in three days. Lets see how my little demons behave. I can't wait


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## nexen (Feb 10, 2009)

Locutus said:


> Nice thread, I will receiving my own OBT's in three days. Lets see how my little demons behave. I can't wait


Learn from my mistake - do not poke. :}


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## the nature boy (Feb 10, 2009)

D-back said:


> Robc is a very experienced T keeper and despite of this, he was bitten by his murinus... ....he said (and I believe him), he was not trying to handle the T and he didn't poke him either


Rob was "hand feeding" his OBT by holding a roach by its butt and offering it to the T when he was bitten.  No joke.


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## D-back (Feb 10, 2009)

the nature boy said:


> Rob was "hand feeding" his OBT by holding a roach by its butt and offering it to the T when he was bitten.  No joke.


hmm....Are we talking about the same bite?



> Robc: It's almost like she knew I wasn't looking...I think maybe my finger sitting just over the edge looked like food and she's an eater!


http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=133925&page=2


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## Locutus (Feb 10, 2009)

nexen said:


> Learn from my mistake - do not poke. :}


I'll take care, sure.    I have two pokies, and I have seen their 'teleporting powers' so I hope the OBTs will not take me by surprise...


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## JNG (Feb 10, 2009)

nexen said:


> Yeah, I wanted to clear this up because people seem to take it the wrong way. I was calling myself an idiot for getting one because the thing scared me half to death when it escaped and I'm not sure I was(am) ready for it. For more experienced keepers I consider it a far different story. I've only been in this for about four months. (Not judging you, maybe you take it up quicker than me) and I feel it would have been much smarter to work my way up slower. I bought: Rosie, another rosie, an a.versi sling, a GBB sling, then an OBT!
> 
> That being said, having her is a lot of fun for me because she gets my heart racing. All the information I've read and the encouragement on here had sigificantly raised my level of comfort. I'm just going to be neurotically careful with her until I have more experience. My other spiders I think of as 'cute' and let them crawl all over me. Not my OBT - its all tongs with her.
> 
> The spider expert at my favorite pet store has also threatened to kick my rear for buying her! He was bitten by one and said it was nine hours of sheer agony. He regularly stocks some species that many on here seem to consider more dangerous (haplos and pokies) but I think he received a really large dose of venom on this particular bite.


dont worry, i didnt take anything the wrong way. Actually, the real reason i got an OBT so quick is because i kept reading what some people were saying about them, and just had to get one to see for myself. And, mine mostly just runs and hides. Its just a little over 1" though. But, is already a webbing-fool.


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## Stan Schultz (Feb 10, 2009)

ph0bia said:


> xD Did I just argue with THE Stanley Schultz?! *faints* X_x
> 
> Ah well, everyone is entitled to their viewpoints, that's how science works (!), ...


*IT'S OKAY EVERYBODY!* "phObia" had a valid point of view. I probably was being a bit excessive in describing OBTs and their care the way I did. But then, Nexen did clearly state that he was fairly new to the hobby, and was asking for advice on how to deal with a tarantula that was one or two steps up the ladder from your average pet rock.

I'm also a believer in giving the bad news first. Getting the good news first gives one a sense of false security. Famous last words: "Smile. Be happy. Everything's going to be all right." Notice that I didn't say "Don't keep one." I merely told Nexen (and anybody else who is paying attention) what to expect, and gave some pointers on dealing with OBTs and other tarantulas that have an attitude.



ph0bia said:


> ... but I still stand by my statements that they're not quite as bad as some people make out. When I see a video of someone being chased around their specimen room by an angry P.murinus, I'll back down.


And, you are quite correct. No tarantula that I've ever seen or heard of actually chases anything but crickets.

We all tend to wax sentimental about our tarantulas of any kind until we're bitten by one of those little darlings with a medically significant bite. Then we experience a sudden snap back to reality and we're very, Very, VERY, *VERY* careful from then on *NOT* to ever get into a situation where we'll be bitten again. Marguerite can attest to that! It's a lot easier (and more sensible) to be able to say "I told you so!" than it is to have to say "Ooops!"

Cheers,


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## ph0bia (Feb 12, 2009)

Thanks man, I probably jumped off the deep-end a little also on this one.
I love the Pterinochilus genus, probably my favourite, and I'm well aware of the consequences of their bite. I just generally think that some people do exaggerate them a lot.

I guess, reading back through, it is very good information for a beginner, though this shouldn't surprise me since your book arrived through my door this morning and I've been glued to it since. Not meant to be a brown-nose, more a mark of deep respect.

As a side-note, I've just gotten back from staying with my girlfriend for three days to find my P.murinus has completely sealed off her original burrow under the cork-bark, not just webbing, she's filled it in with substrate and packed it down well. She's kept the same burrow, but added a different exit that comes out now under a second piece of bark and is using a fake-plant leaf as a 'front door', as in, it just covers the entrance to her burrow and I can see four little 'feet' poking up at me.

Maww...


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## Stan Schultz (Feb 12, 2009)

ph0bia said:


> ...  your book arrived through my door this morning and I've been glued to it since...


Did you get a copy of the second edition with the Rio Grand gold (_Aphonopelma moderatum_) on the cover or the third edition with the Mexican redleg (_Brachypelma smithi_)? I'm just curious if they're shipping the 3rd edition earlier than expected.


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## Hellion299 (Feb 12, 2009)

*Respect*

OBT's are great additons to ANY tarantula keepers collection. Sadly these guys are a hands off species because of their flighty-ness and "attitude", but you have to respect the way they react and adapt so well to their habitat. Anyone can get years of enjoyment out of these guys if you just understand the "right" way to enjoy them; as little hands on time with these guys as possible!!  Respect them and enjoy from a distance.


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## CRX (Feb 12, 2009)

They're a ''hands off'' species :?? I handle mine regularly, and they really aren't that bad once they're out their cages.


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## ph0bia (Feb 13, 2009)

Pikaia said:


> Did you get a copy of the second edition with the Rio Grand gold (_Aphonopelma moderatum_) on the cover or the third edition with the Mexican redleg (_Brachypelma smithi_)? I'm just curious if they're shipping the 3rd edition earlier than expected.


It's the third edition. I ordered it from Amazon.co.uk, an amazing read, though I can't compare it to the first or second editions as I've sadly not read them. Of course, I'd be happy to read and compare a signed copy? 



> They're a ''hands off'' species ? I handle mine regularly, and they really aren't that bad once they're out their cages.


Whilst I do agree that they really are nowhere near as bad outside their cages, do still be cautious. It's the good old adage that you can poke a Black Widow who's sitting on her eggs and she won't attack you, you can safely let these guys walk across your hands (I've done it), but if you back her into a corner where she can't run, she'll bite.

All spiders have stimuli and reactions based on their situation. Poke a P.murinus and it goes either for the burrow (if close enough) or for higher ground. If it's in it's burrow or cannot back away, it'll bite. If it's in an unusual environment like outside it's cage or in a new enclosure, before they've established a burrow, they are MUCH in preference of running than they are of trying to take down a creature thousands of times their body weight.

This is not the case, however, if they have nowhere to run or if they're in their burrow. The first is a case of life and death to the spider, it's in a corner and fears it will die unless it tries something. In it's burrow, it's the same situation plus territorial issues.


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## T_DORKUS (Feb 13, 2009)

CRX said:


> They're a ''hands off'' species :?? I handle mine regularly, and they really aren't that bad once they're out their cages.



Good for you!:clap: :clap: :clap:  

Hands off does not mean they can't be handled.  It generally means it is a SMART idea to not do it.


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## nexen (Feb 13, 2009)

*drama continues*

Turns out that my OBT is not an OBT at all. S/he is a Pterinochilus lugardi, a "Fort Hall Baboon"
Looked the same to me, except the coloration and this spider has two larger "eye spots" on its abdomen.

I've been reading a lot about OBTs but I can't find nearly as much information about P. lugardi besides their basic care needs.

Anyone know:

1) how different are their venoms? I'd suspect that P.lugari are fairly close to P.murinus?

2) I've read that P.lugardi isn't as "nasty" as a P.murinus. Does that just mean that s/he will be far less likely to bite than run away? This spider has yet to throw me a threat display but then again I've done nothing to provoke it since our first encounter.

3) Is it still ok to try to control the web vs. burrow behavior by limiting substrate? Mine is pretty skittish right now but I don't know how much is just her baseline and how much would be stress from living in a shallower substrate. (she's burrowed into it anyways)

Despite the more boring coloration (imho) this is actually a pretty cool spider so far. S/he sees me off to work every morning and hides the rest of the day. Good eater too.

Also - this is the first spider I've messed with that seems to notice camera flash. Doesn't run away or anything but definitely goes into the "hide your eyes with your legs" posture that I (rightly or wrongly) associate with fear.


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## the nature boy (Feb 13, 2009)

T_DORKUS said:


> Good for you!:clap: :clap: :clap:
> 
> Hands off does not mean they can't be handled.  It generally means it is a SMART idea to not do it.


Some of us like to do stupid things--all the time, lol.  

--the nature boy


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## nexen (Feb 13, 2009)

T_DORKUS said:


> Good for you!:clap: :clap: :clap:
> 
> Hands off does not mean they can't be handled.  It generally means it is a SMART idea to not do it.


Yeah, if something spooks your spider while you are handling it - you may end up in some serious pain. I love handling Ts but I wouldn't want to handle even a very tame OBT after what I've read about their venom's potency.

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=133925


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## the nature boy (Feb 13, 2009)

nexen said:


> Yeah, if something spooks your spider while you are handling it - you may end up in some serious pain. I love handling Ts but I wouldn't want to handle even a very tame OBT after what I've read about their venom's potency.
> 
> http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=133925


I've handled my share of "nasty" ones.  In fact, it is my personal mission in life to handle any species and any particular member of a given species that is so called defensive.  I won't bore you with the list but suffice to say that I have handled what I have without being bitten (I have been bitten, just not while handling) indicates that any species can be handled.  My day will come, but so far it's been a piece of cake.


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## Rochelle (Feb 13, 2009)

It'll look like this when grown...not so boring now, huh?  












"Bloody Mary's" temperament is different than obt's... she's a dedicated pet hole and only comes out in the dead of night. Never had a threat display from her in all the years I've owned her.  
(and after having this picture for so long..you'd think I would have noticed the pit bull nose in the background :?  )
Congrats on getting a great species! (P.lugardi).. :clap:   If you aren't comfortable holding it ~ simply don't do it. There is no good argument for holding a tarantula..it's alot like petting a tiger. It could go horribly wrong. Wait until you are ready; if ever.   If you are bitten ~ it will invariably be your own fault; never the T's. It is a calculated risk, at best. You must be willing to take the bite. Period. 
Personally ~ I will hold and play with our T's when they are willing to let me.


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## nexen (Feb 13, 2009)

the nature boy said:


> I've handled my share of "nasty" ones.  In fact, it is my personal mission in life to handle any species and any particular member of a given species that is so called defensive.  I won't bore you with the list but suffice to say that I have handled what I have without being bitten (I have been bitten, just not while handling) indicates that any species can be handled.  My day will come, but so far it's been a piece of cake.


Well, good luck on your mission! I'll be watching from the sidelines with great interest. (actually, I already have been, truth be told  )

If someone wants to handle critters that can cause that kind of pain that is their perogative and I'd never deny them that. But I do hope that anyone who makes the decision to handle this or other "hot" species does so only for *themselves* and with adequate knowledge of the danger beforehand.

ie know what you are getting into and take pains to make sure that you are only exposing yourself to the danger.


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## the nature boy (Feb 13, 2009)

nexen said:


> ie know what you are getting into and take pains to make sure that you are only exposing yourself to the danger.


Yeah, I've been fanged by and OBT and an S. calceatum (again, not while handling) so I have some idea of just how "fun" it is.  Of course there's nothing like the feeling of venom coursing though the veins, lol!


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## nexen (Feb 13, 2009)

Rochelle said:


> It'll look like this when grown...not so boring now, huh?


She's a pretty T, no doubt. I didn't mean to say otherwise. I'm just in love with the P.murinus coloration so it was a bit of a disappointment that I wouldn't be able to get one now. (space/wife tolerance is an issue in my situation)

This is all right now though - I get so attached to my pets in such a short time that I'll probably think mine is better looking than any other spider soon.




Rochelle said:


> "Bloody Mary's" temperament is different than obt's... she's a dedicated pet hole and only comes out in the dead of night. Never had a threat display from her in all the years I've owned her.
> (and after having this picture for so long..you'd think I would have noticed the pit bull nose in the background :?  )
> Congrats on getting a great species! (P.lugardi).. :clap:   If you aren't comfortable holding it ~ simply don't do it. There is no good argument for holding a tarantula..it's alot like petting a tiger. It could go horribly wrong. Wait until you are ready; if ever.   If you are bitten ~ it will invariably be your own fault; never the T's. It is a calculated risk, at best. You must be willing to take the bite. Period.
> Personally ~ I will hold and play with our T's when they are willing to let me.


Thanks! Yeah, I'm not willing to take the bite just to be able to hold her. Maybe I'll feel differently one day but I'll handle my other species for now.


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## nexen (Feb 13, 2009)

the nature boy said:


> Yeah, I've been fanged by and OBT and an S. calceatum (again, not while handling) so I have some idea of just how "fun" it is.  Of course there's nothing like the feeling of venom coursing though the veins, lol!


Yeah, I read your S.cal bite report.  Scary stuff. 
What I've read about their temperment and the fact that they are arboreal kind of made me want one, but that will have to wait for awhile.

I didn't read anything about you getting bit by an OBT. How did it compare?


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## Rochelle (Feb 13, 2009)

*knock on wood*...never bitten.


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## jr47 (Feb 13, 2009)

Didnt have time to read all posts so not sure if anyone recomended this but I always fed mine before changing water or cleaning. They tend to want to hold on to the food rather than pay attention to what your doing. They are pretty T's. 
         I have a C. Huahini, Adult female that is about as defensive as any T I have had. She is pretty quick too. But once she gets 3 or 4 crickets she pays little attention to me.


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## the nature boy (Feb 13, 2009)

nexen said:


> Yeah, I read your S.cal bite report.  Scary stuff.
> What I've read about their temperment and the fact that they are arboreal kind of made me want one, but that will have to wait for awhile.
> 
> I didn't read anything about you getting bit by an OBT. How did it compare?


Quite similar, actually.  The S. calceatum had more of an electric jolt sensation the moment it fanged me but from there out there wasn't much difference.


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## ph0bia (Feb 13, 2009)

nexen said:


> Anyone know:
> 
> 1) how different are their venoms? I'd suspect that P.lugari are fairly close to P.murinus?
> 
> ...


1) P.murinus, chordatus and lugardi all have very similar (if not the same) venom. The notable effects are exactly the same.

2) They are still defensive, but yes, not quite so much as P.murinus. The P.murinus will display and dart forward occasionally, the lugardi will display but usually run away unless REALLY provoked.

3) Care is exactly the same for all three species. It's recommended to let them burrow, but with enough anchor points in good areas (plants near the walls for instance) they're happy to make their own 'burrows' entirely from silk.

Hope that helps =)


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## Stan Schultz (Feb 13, 2009)

ph0bia said:


> ... The P.murinus will display and dart forward occasionally, ...


And flip over backwards onto its back and make a concerted effort to bite the air. They're really quite funny.


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## ph0bia (Feb 14, 2009)

Yeah, I've yet to get mine to display. I don't like to poke her much, just hand her food (which is cute letting her take it from the forceps). It's quite cool as well, if she isn't hungry, she'll push the food away quite calmly.

She's a little 2"+ juve, and yes, "she" is relative. All my spiders are females until I prove otherwise. =)


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## D-back (Feb 16, 2009)

ph0bia said:


> 3. If you want to lure it out, don't poke the hide. If it's webbed against something outside the hide, stroke this item with the forceps or even stroke the dirt it's webbed on just outside. You should see it calmly coming to investigate. When it's about to touch the forceps, move them back a little and keep stroking. You can usually lure them out this way.


Hi Nexen! I've just tried PhObia's method and it worked greatly...But if you're not comfortabe with striking the webbing or other object in front of the burrow with tweezers (I don't like doing this), here is a modification of the method...You can buy a syringe with a needle (it's also useful when you want to fill the water dish) and then drop a few small drops of water on the webbing with it . The T thinks that a pray item is nearby, so he will leave the burrow


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## ph0bia (Feb 16, 2009)

D-back said:


> Hi Nexen! I've just tried PhObia's method and it worked greatly...But if you're not comfortabe with striking the webbing or other object in front of the burrow with tweezers (I don't like doing this), here is a modification of the method...You can buy a syringe with a needle (it's also useful when you want to fill the water dish) and then drop a few small drops of water on the webbing with it . The T thinks that a pray item is nearby, so he will leave the burrow


Sweet idea!


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## nexen (Feb 16, 2009)

D-back said:


> Hi Nexen! I've just tried PhObia's method and it worked greatly...But if you're not comfortabe with striking the webbing or other object in front of the burrow with tweezers (I don't like doing this), here is a modification of the method...You can buy a syringe with a needle (it's also useful when you want to fill the water dish) and then drop a few small drops of water on the webbing with it . The T thinks that a pray item is nearby, so he will leave the burrow


Thanks, D-Back! Banshee's out pretty often on her own accord so far. I'll give this a try if/when she turns into a true pet hole.

My fear level of this critter has pretty much zeroed out over the last few days. She is absolutely terrified of everything and wants nothing to do with me whatesoever. She may be fast but she's far more interested using her speed to make herself scarce than injecting me with venom.

I feel kind of sorry for her, actually. Maybe she'll calm down if she gets more dirt.


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## ph0bia (Feb 16, 2009)

nexen said:


> Thanks, D-Back! Banshee's out pretty often on her own accord so far. I'll give this a try if/when she turns into a true pet hole.
> 
> My fear level of this critter has pretty much zeroed out over the last few days. She is absolutely terrified of everything and wants nothing to do with me whatesoever. She may be fast but she's far more interested using her speed to make herself scarce than injecting me with venom.
> 
> I feel kind of sorry for her, actually. Maybe she'll calm down if she gets more dirt.


Has she burrowed at all? I moved mine into an enclosure with about 4-5" dirt (for a 2.5" juve) and she was much happier than the previous enclosure which had her darting about all over the place.


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## nexen (Feb 16, 2009)

ph0bia said:


> Has she burrowed at all? I moved mine into an enclosure with about 4-5" dirt (for a 2.5" juve) and she was much happier than the previous enclosure which had her darting about all over the place.


She's done what she can. She can completely hide herself under the dirt (1" to 1.5" worth) but only by getting right up against the bottom of the kk. She stays there all day but comes out at night. I catch her out in the morning. I think she's still asleep - as soon as my family starts making noise she goes into hiding again.

Given that she's shown no interest in webbing herself a false burrow I'm going to just add another 4" of substrate and let her go wild.


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## ph0bia (Feb 16, 2009)

xD

Mine repeatedly do that, no matter how deep. In fact, with my girlfriend, we took this to an extreme and gave a 2" P.murinus over 8" of substrate. She sits completely on the plastic at the bottom of a LONG diagonal tunnel. Fortunately the entire tunnel is against the side of the enclosure so you can see in from the sides and bottom.

My P.chordatus, when I first got her at about 5-6" had very little substrate and made tunnel-webbing with her plant and enclosure edge. Was very pretty until she took it down, then I redid her enclosure with a lot more substrate and now she's burrowed... down to the plastic...

Basically, I think if you want tube-webbing, you need to have so little subtstrate that they cannot cover themselves with it.

Pterinochilus is one of the few species it seems perfectly happy to do this... Other extensive burrowers (note that I do not use Obligate Burrowers here, those are a different kettle of fish) get really skitty if they can't burrow at all.


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## nexen (Feb 16, 2009)

ph0bia said:


> xD
> 
> Mine repeatedly do that, no matter how deep. In fact, with my girlfriend, we took this to an extreme and gave a 2" P.murinus over 8" of substrate. She sits completely on the plastic at the bottom of a LONG diagonal tunnel. Fortunately the entire tunnel is against the side of the enclosure so you can see in from the sides and bottom.
> 
> ...


The trick is that it is really hard for me to tell if her skittishness is just me not being used to the more lively species or if she is stressed from too little substrate. She hasn't lit the afterburners since the first day I had her. When she does go back into hiding it is at a crawling speed. The lps had her in this setup for several months from what I understand.

Hm...maybe I need to *remove* substrate then? Descisions, decisions.


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## Sterlingspider (Feb 16, 2009)

nexen said:


> The trick is that it is really hard for me to tell if her skittishness is just me not being used to the more lively species or if she is stressed from too little substrate. She hasn't lit the afterburners since the first day I had her. When she does go back into hiding it is at a crawling speed. The lps had her in this setup for several months from what I understand.
> 
> Hm...maybe I need to *remove* substrate then? Descisions, decisions.


Mine wasn't burrowing at all until I put a piece of corkbark in with her very close to one end of the enclosure. She decided it was the perfect thing to start her webbing off of and promptly set up a tube web which seems to get just a bit more extensive every time I look at it. It has made care a billion times easier on my adrenaline system. 

Admittedly mine is just a 5/8 inch sling, but I've done the same with many of my other Ts and for the most part they immediately seem to get the hint and build or adopt some sort of hide based around the corkbark.


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## ph0bia (Feb 16, 2009)

Yeah, as I said, mine did this under a Star Cactus (here) using the wall and the leaves there, and a piece of random cork bark, as anchor points.

A question for the others, do P.murinus and P.chordatus stridulate? I've never heard mine do this, but apparently they do?


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## OldHag (Feb 16, 2009)

I have a GABT... G. aureostriata bitey thing... hehe

Ive had two OBTs. Both were defensive when they felt they needed to be. Not overtly so though, only when I was messing with their cages or the spider itself.  But out of the hundreds of Ts Ive had in my life time the ONLY two escapes Ive ever had were both OBTs. I dont have them anymore.. I cant seem to keep them caged.


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## ph0bia (Feb 17, 2009)

OldHag said:


> I have a GABT... G. aureostriata bitey thing... hehe
> 
> Ive had two OBTs. Both were defensive when they felt they needed to be. Not overtly so though, only when I was messing with their cages or the spider itself.  But out of the hundreds of Ts Ive had in my life time the ONLY two escapes Ive ever had were both OBTs. I dont have them anymore.. I cant seem to keep them caged.


What were you keeping them in?

Never even remotely had that issue once they start burrowing.


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## opticle (Feb 17, 2009)

you guys are lucky...in Australia you don't get a choice   all of them are fast and aggressive


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## Neophyte (Feb 17, 2009)

opticle said:


> you guys are lucky...in Australia you don't get a choice   all of them are fast and aggressive


I don't think anyone ahs a choice. But hey, fast an agressive is nothing short of awesome :3


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## the nature boy (Feb 17, 2009)

opticle said:


> you guys are lucky...in Australia you don't get a choice   all of them are fast and aggressive


What more could you ask for?!!!  Jesus, no boring docile Ts and you guys drink like fish.  I'm ready to move there.  *Now*.


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## opticle (Feb 17, 2009)

i'm talking about being a begginer, you have to learn the hard way, i love my tarantulas i wouldn't have any other ones except maybe some African ones


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## ph0bia (Feb 17, 2009)

opticle said:


> i'm talking about being a begginer, you have to learn the hard way, i love my tarantulas i wouldn't have any other ones except maybe some African ones


Yeah, we seem to forget what 'beginner' means on here xD

"Yeah, H.maculata is fine, just be cautious..." =P


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## ghosthunter223 (Feb 2, 2010)

when you either unpacking a OBT or rehousing it can you do it in a Rubbermaid container with a roach Barrier (clear packing tape) around the edges to prevent it from climbing? or will a OBT climb right over that with no problem?


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## B8709 (Feb 2, 2010)

Yes, let's bring back a year old thread instead of making another thread.


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## xhexdx (Feb 2, 2010)

Either way, the answer is no, that won't work.


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## Buckwheat (Feb 3, 2010)

This might be a useful link for your future needs. 

http://www.herpsupplies.com/subcategory.cfm?id=12&sub=31


The 12 inch models.


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## SpaceMonkey (Feb 3, 2010)

Well, at least it's not just me that was freaked by an OBT's speed then!! My friend gave me one as a freebie to expand my collection yesterday. The spider is still very small (perhaps 3/4 of an inch) but I've already had one episode where the T was up and out of the enclosure before I even realised it had surfaced out of the substrate!!!! I managed to catch it again, but I'm fairly sure I would have been in some trouble if it was a larger one!!! I'm glad I read your post, because now it will remind me to be extra careful with the OBT in future, especially when it starts getting bigger!


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## robd (Feb 3, 2010)

B8709 said:


> Yes, let's bring back a year old thread instead of making another thread.


What at all does that matter? Don't be a troll. Maybe help them answer the question instead. For the record, I would concur with Joe, of course.

Didn't bother me any. In fact I enjoyed the original story about the OBT getting loose from the tank at the pet store and wreaking havoc.


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## VESPidA (Feb 3, 2010)

yeah really.  this board is already too clogged with threads that just repeat themselves, esp with the same mundane questions.  we tell people to search, but when they actually do just that and revive a thread, we jump all over them  makes sense to me


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## Xian (Feb 3, 2010)

HokiePokie727 said:


> yeah really.  this board is already too clogged with threads that just repeat themselves, esp with the same mundane questions.  we tell people to search, but when they actually do just that and revive a thread, we jump all over them  makes sense to me


I really like it when people revive an old thread! I haven't been part of this board very long and there are years of threads to try and catch up on.


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## curiousme (Feb 3, 2010)

Xian said:


> I really like it when people revive an old thread! I haven't been part of this board very long and there are years of threads to try and catch up on.


AGREED!  

As far as P. _murinus_ go, they are greased lightning with a spritz of teleportation thrown in for good measure.  We rehouse as seldom as possible and now have ours in its adult enclosure about a year after we got it.  It has used me as a jungle gym before and it was definitely nerve wracking.  It eventually got pooped and slowed down enough to wrangle it back to its home though.  Luckily, it was still at a size where its defensiveness wasn't as prominent.

My best advice is don't underestimate them.   Oh and try and put the old enclosure in the new/ bigger enclosure and let it come out in its own time.


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## Megan (Feb 3, 2010)

I keep hearing these crazy stories about how fast OBT's are!  Does anyone know of a good video of an OBT zooming around?

I wonder how they even know where they're going? Some insects (like some species of cockroaches and Tiger beetles) actually move faster than their vision can process, so they go really fast, but only for very short distances.  

I know spiders have pretty terrible vision in the first place, so I'm amazed they don't go crashing into things at that speed, hehe.


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## curiousme (Feb 3, 2010)

Megan said:


> I keep hearing these crazy stories about how fast OBT's are!  Does anyone know of a good video of an OBT zooming around?


I don't like the poking at it, but here is one.


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## Shell (Feb 3, 2010)

There is this one too. It was this video that made me think twice about getting my P.murinus, apparently I have a short term memory as I bought it anyway lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxXrHc9sflA&feature=related


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## B8709 (Feb 3, 2010)

I'll be sure to revive a few threads later for you all then since you love it so much.


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## Buckwheat (Feb 4, 2010)

I think it is great that you have taken a step up and have the interest to do so. This species along with others gets a bad rap frequently. Think of them as fish. You wouldn't handle your fish..would you? of course not. Don't handle these either. Even though i know a few who have and do with no more problems than any other species. Everyone is entitled to do as they may but frankly they don't need us, don't like us and don't want anything to do with us. Often it is us as hobbyists that force our will on them. Observe and learn about the fantastic world of nature. That is what this is all about isn't it? Oh, and about the sight thing..they don't have any really. I think it is generally felt that they can sense differences in various shades of lightness or darkness and, perhaps to a degree maybe even some movement but as for sight as we know it..they don't have it. More than likely the true be known they don't run very far because they have to hold their breath to run!
Again, best of luck and watch those fingers! very cool indeed.


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