# Is my scorpion dying?



## hecait (Aug 23, 2015)

Today I found my Emperor scorpion lying out in the open, tilted to one side with some white fecal matter on one claw, and when I touched him with his feeding prongs he started flailing his pinchers and his stinger. His mouth parts are sticking out and one side seems to be limp..now he's just laying there.

I've had him for about 2 1/2 years and he hasn't molted once since I got him, but I was told he was a juvenile. I never take him out or anything and he looks plump-not fat, but plump. I usually feed him 2-3 medium sized crickets once a week- which is also when I refill his water. It's usually between 85-95 degrees max in the tank and the top is wrapped to hold humidity,  but I've been more careful about how much water I put in there to avoid mold


----------



## Arachnomaniac19 (Aug 23, 2015)

Try to post a pic.


----------



## hecait (Aug 23, 2015)

He's about 4 1/2 to 5 inches long. I put him in his water bowl and he started dragging himself in circles..I just refilled the tank with water (there's a layer of small rocks at the bottom for that purpose) and misted everything. Then I put him back under his cork bark

I've posted pictures of him on here before and people told me he was still a juvenile, but I still haven't seen him molt.

Maybe it's too hot?? It was around 95 degrees and since I leave him be because I don't want to stress him out I noticed it was fairly dry, but there was some condensation in the substrate, and the water in his bowl had evaporated.

---------- Post added 08-23-2015 at 04:43 PM ----------

I put him in his water bowl to soak for a few minutes, because I heard that an overheated scorpion will sting itself (which he was just doing)?  He's dragging his left side and isn't using that claw.


----------



## hecait (Aug 23, 2015)

Anyone?


----------



## Galapoheros (Aug 23, 2015)

It probably had one more molt to go, it's a juv.  It seems little too hot in there imo.  I've raised a few generations and I've seen a similar problem over here with some of them.  When they come to that final molt, they get bloated, everything looks OK though, they normally look like that. But something goes wrong and they simply go limp looking like they are just about to molt.  I suspect it's the heat, I think it's too hot over here, causing something to go wrong.  It's probably too late for that one but I think bringing it down to at least the low 80s might solve this problem in the future.  I lost a few that looked like they were going to be nice big specimens, died right before molting and yip, very suspicious of the temps being too high.  Upper 70s-lower 80s might solve this problem.  It could be countless other things though.


----------



## hecait (Aug 23, 2015)

Galapoheros said:


> It probably had one more molt to go, it's a juv.  It seems little too hot in there imo.  I've raised a few generations and I've seen a similar problem over here with some of them.  When they come to that final molt, they get bloated, everything looks OK though, they normally look like that. But something goes wrong and they simply go limp looking like they are just about to molt.  I suspect it's the heat, I think it's too hot over here, causing something to go wrong.  It's probably too late for that one but I think bringing it down to at least the low 80s might solve this problem in the future.  I lost a few that looked like they were going to be nice big specimens, died right before molting and yip, very suspicious of the temps being too high.  Upper 70s-lower 80s might solve this problem.  It could be countless other things though.


I turned his lamp off...I just thought they buried themselves when it was too hot? He hasn't tried to bury himself or anything.


----------



## Jebbles (Aug 24, 2015)

When it's too hot they'll start rolling over, trying to sting themselves, etc. Temps should go from around 90F during the day max to 77F at night, or have hot and cool sides. 
He might be molting soon, looks like his telson is still immature. 2 years he's a little over due. That or he may have stung himself?


----------



## hecait (Aug 24, 2015)

TroLLageK said:


> When it's too hot they'll start rolling over, trying to sting themselves, etc. Temps should go from around 90F during the day max to 77F at night, or have hot and cool sides.
> He might be molting soon, looks like his telson is still immature. 2 years he's a little over due. That or he may have stung himself?


It's about 77-80 degrees in the tank right now. His tanks is damp and I have a small heat pad on the side of the tank. He's immobile when I lift his cork bark up, but reacts by raising his claw when I put it back down. So he's still alive..

But yeah, like 2 1/2 years without a molt...why is that?

When I saw him in that state and panicked, I put him in his water dish and poured some water on him to cool him down and help him get hydrated and he started tipping and spiraling..and stinging himself. When I found him-he moved like his left side was almost paralyzed 

Is he done for? Wouldn't he have tried to bury himself if it was too hot? Way back when he used to dig some tunnels on occasion, but not anymore. Not even a little ditch.


----------



## Jebbles (Aug 24, 2015)

Things that could make him paralysed that I know of from the top of my head:
Parasites, a tumour, or him stinging himself. Don't emerge him in the dish as he can get water in his book lungs and drown. I'd move him into an ICU like enclosure with moist paper towel. Have his body leaning on his water dish, if needed be drop water on his mouth, but no where else. Then wait. It's all I can think of doing right now.

Sent from my LG-D803 using Tapatalk


----------



## hecait (Aug 24, 2015)

Alright- won't do that anymore. It was never more than a minute or two at a time but when I put him in there initially he started working his mandibles as though he was drinking, so I thought he was just very dehydrated. I couldn't find anything online about how to handle it so I panicked.

I haven't checked on him since early this morning but hopefully he's still hanging in there


----------



## hecait (Aug 24, 2015)

He moved himself back to the spot I had originally found him...when I gently tapped his left claw or any of his legs on his left side, there was no reaction. His sides seem wrinkled too.

I dripped some water in his mouth and he started stabbing himself again..but he's right next to his water dish now.

Do scorpions accidentally sting themselves?

This really sucks, considering I've grown so attached to him.


----------



## Galapoheros (Aug 25, 2015)

It kind of looks like he was injured somehow, anybody else go in your room?  It can be bad to assume too much though, you don't want to guess and accuse somebody without knowing, I'm just throwing the idea out there.  Is there a rock in there somebody could have dropped on him?


----------



## hecait (Aug 25, 2015)

Galapoheros said:


> It kind of looks like he was injured somehow, anybody else go in your room?  It can be bad to assume too much though, you don't want to guess and accuse somebody without knowing, I'm just throwing the idea out there.  Is there a rock in there somebody could have dropped on him?


He's still alive..same condition


The relative I live with is afraid of him. He only has a piece of cork bark in there..kind of boring, but I kept it so to avoid situations like this. And I never dropped it on him or anything.

Here's a video...it's painful to watch. 

[video=youtube;3UnK_RwY744]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UnK_RwY744[/video]

...Should I just euthanize him?


----------



## Galapoheros (Aug 25, 2015)

People attack animals they're afraid of, you know them though, I don't.  There was a big centipede at a mapping co around here they had as something like a mascot, it mysteriously died.  Several of the employees went to the same mapping company after it downsized.  One of them was talking to me probably 20 years ago, "Hey we had this big black centipede with a red head at the other mapping company but it started acting sick.  Finally it died, nobody ever knew why it started acting funny."  The guy next to him said, "It was me, I killed it." hahaha, it was kind of funny because they started yelling at each other a little.  "It was you?!"  "Yeah, I didn't like that thing, I was scared of it, something that can hurt me, ...well I'm going to hurt IT!"  I know what you're thinking, you get the mentality there, just programmed that way.  "It wasn't going to hurt you!"  "I didn't like it!"  "How'd you kill it?!"  "With cigarettes, I burned it with cigarettes!!"  "Man!, I can't believe you did that!"  Haha, mystery solved.  It doesn't look like that scorpion will pull through to me.


----------



## hecait (Aug 25, 2015)

Galapoheros said:


> It doesn't look like that scorpion will pull through to me.


His tail is laying down curled to the side now..but it moves when touched. And I found nematodes in his tank.

It's been two days. I don't want him to keep suffering like this...how do I go about putting him down?


----------



## The Snark (Aug 25, 2015)

hecait;2402553 snip... I don't want him to keep suffering like this...how do I go about putting him down?[/QUOTE said:
			
		

> Without the sensory nerves of higher animals, exoskeletal creatures don't suffer in a way we can relate to nor do they suffer from angst or anxiety in the short term.
> 
> To euthanize smaller animals place them in a smaller container that can be closed. Not hermetically sealed. Place a large bowl in the containment the animal can't climb into. As example, a pint bowl in a 5 gallon unventilated terrarium. Fill the bowl half full of baking soda. Pour a small amount, a tablespoon or two, of vinegar into the baking soda and close the lid. Not enough to overflow the bowl with foam. Repeat adding the vinegar every few minutes. Putting in test victims, roaches or other active animals, gives a rough indicator of when there is enough gas to be lethal. Leave the containment covered for a few hours and done.
> Do not use this method on higher order animals as mammals as they have CO2 sensory capability and will suffer from some degree of respiratory distress.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## hecait (Aug 25, 2015)

The Snark said:


> Without the sensory nerves of higher animals, exoskeletal creatures don't suffer in a way we can relate to nor do they suffer from angst or anxiety in the short term.
> 
> To euthanize smaller animals place them in a smaller container that can be closed. Not hermetically sealed. Place a large bowl in the containment the animal can't climb into. As example, a pint bowl in a 5 gallon unventilated terrarium. Fill the bowl half full of baking soda. Pour a small amount, a tablespoon or two, of vinegar into the baking soda and close the lid. Not enough to overflow the bowl with foam. Repeat adding the vinegar every few minutes. Putting in test victims, roaches or other active animals, gives a rough indicator of when there is enough gas to be lethal. Leave the containment covered for a few hours and done.
> Do not use this method on higher order animals as mammals as they have CO2 sensory capability and will suffer from some degree of respiratory distress.


I know...I anthromorphize because I love the little guy and hate these situations. And I ask because I've heard that people put them in the freezer, but I wasn't sure. 

I've been seeing small worms in his substrate- found one on his mandibles. Are they from the soil or from the crickets? Is this because of them?

And, this is a really dumb question, but this is definitely pre-death behavior?

---------- Post added 08-25-2015 at 10:07 PM ----------

Nevermind...his tail is down....


----------



## Galapoheros (Aug 25, 2015)

There is a possibility it was injured somehow without you knowing how it happened.  So throwing that possibility out there, what sometimes happens is that the injured area becomes a little necrotic, starts to rot, it doesn't take much for an area like that to attract phorid flies.  They lay eggs there on the damaged area, the maggots start feeding on the area.  I've had that happen before.  The maggots irritate the area.  Scorpions I've seen that happen to act like your scorpion is the vid.  Have you looked to find a damaged area?  Look real hard and see if you find tiny maggots, they're really small but you can see them.  I'd pin it down and take a really good look esp. on the side that is not right, around where the mouthparts aren't working well also.


----------



## hecait (Aug 25, 2015)

Galapoheros said:


> There is a possibility it was injured somehow without you knowing how it happened.  So throwing that possibility out there, what sometimes happens is that the injured area becomes a little necrotic, starts to rot, it doesn't take much for an area like that to attract phorid flies.  They lay eggs there on the damaged area, the maggots start feeding on the area.  I've had that happen before.  The maggots irritate the area.  Scorpions I've seen that happen to act like your scorpion is the vid.  Have you looked to find a damaged area?  Look real hard and see if you find tiny maggots, they're really small but you can see them.  I'd pin it down and take a really good look esp. on the side that is not right, around where the mouthparts aren't working well also.


I'll look again, but didn't see anything before. And I'll take a picture of the worms.


Update: One of his lack legs was broken. I took it off, but no worms on the wound (looked healed over).

I opted for putting him in the freezer...we're all out of vinegar.

And here's one of the worms..it looked dead. Naturally the one time I wanted to see them they all hid


----------



## Galapoheros (Aug 25, 2015)

That's a cricket egg, as far as I can tell from here.


----------



## hecait (Aug 25, 2015)

Galapoheros said:


> That's a cricket egg, as far as I can tell from here.


mhm, maybe that's what this one is- I just thought it was dead. They're usually thinner but they wiggle around and get string-like. And if there's a dead, uneaten cricket, they're all over it.

They looked a lot like pinworms.


----------



## Chris LXXIX (Aug 25, 2015)

The Snark said:


> Without the sensory nerves of higher animals, exoskeletal creatures don't suffer in a way we can relate to nor do they suffer from angst or anxiety in the short term.
> 
> To euthanize smaller animals place them in a smaller container that can be closed. Not hermetically sealed. Place a large bowl in the containment the animal can't climb into. As example, a pint bowl in a 5 gallon unventilated terrarium. Fill the bowl half full of baking soda. Pour a small amount, a tablespoon or two, of vinegar into the baking soda and close the lid. Not enough to overflow the bowl with foam. Repeat adding the vinegar every few minutes. Putting in test victims, roaches or other active animals, gives a rough indicator of when there is enough gas to be lethal. Leave the containment covered for a few hours and done.
> Do not use this method on higher order animals as mammals as they have CO2 sensory capability and will suffer from some degree of respiratory distress.


What about the "freezer" method? Is not more easy and fast that way?


----------



## The Snark (Aug 26, 2015)

Chris LXXIX said:


> What about the "freezer" method? Is not more easy and fast that way?


Honestly, I've never tried it. A prejudice I have left over from my academic days  has left a blank spot there. My guess is the researchers frowned upon it as the threshold between cryogenic stasis and biological death becomes blurred and will vary from species to species.


----------

