# Indian ornamental Trantula (Poecilotheria regalis)??



## ZooKeeper78 (Feb 12, 2006)

Hi,
I am new here, I have been keeping T's for about 2 years now.
I have stuck to the more docile bigginers T's but for the last year now I have been really wanting to try a Indian ornamental Trantula (Poecilotheria regalis).
I am sure I have the knowledge to care for it but My husband is freaking out saying they are The most aggressive & Venomus T's out there 7 I have read different articles online any every one says somthing different.
Can someone please shed some light on Poecilotheria regalis for me How Aggressive & Venomus are they really, Do you reccomend me getting one?

Thanks!


----------



## GootySapphire (Feb 12, 2006)

ZooKeeper78 said:
			
		

> Hi,
> I am new here, I have been keeping T's for about 2 years now.
> I have stuck to the more docile bigginers T's but for the last year now I have been really wanting to try a Indian ornamental Trantula (Poecilotheria regalis).
> I am sure I have the knowledge to care for it but My husband is freaking out saying they are The most aggressive & Venomus T's out there 7 I have read different articles online any every one says somthing different.
> ...



They are pretty venomous as you will read in most peoples threads. If you want to read about the bite side affects, go to the bite report forum and search up P. Regalis. They seem to be the most standard pokie of the genus. Plain but still beautiful. Its up to you on whether or not you want one. There is risk when they get bigger and become more on the offensive side if they do get out of their cage. My P. Metallica decided to go for a stroll out of its cage yesterday while I was misting, took me about a half hour to finally catch it. Mine tend to be more skittish and just run away than actually put the threat pose on me. Unlike my P. Murinus and H. Gigas and such. Its all up to you. My first two T's I ever had were P. Metallica and P. Fasciata.


----------



## Scolopendra55 (Feb 12, 2006)

P.regalis are *VERY* fast and slightly on the aggressive side. They dont make the best beginer T but if you believe you have the knowledge and skill to keep one by all means go for it they are a great display T. But thats what they are "Display T's" and display only. Dont get one if you think you are going to try and make it a hand pet. Pokies are some of the fastest T's out there and that should not be taken lightly. They can be up and out of the cage in the blink of an eye. As far as aggression goes their not *TOO* bad. They generally prefer to run than stand their ground. That is the general rule but I have seen pokies that are as aggressive as an OBT and will bite at anything. They also have quite potent venom, although no deaths have been recorded I have heard a report of a 2 day coma from a bite. There are cases of painfull side affects that can last for weeks on end. I'm not trying to scare you or anything I'm just trying to give you the facts. If you feel you are up to it by all means get one, they are a fascinating and beautiful T. P.regalis was the 10th T I ever got as I felt I was up to the challenge. I have no regrets and have had no close calls. Mine is actually quite calm (when I say calm I mean non aggressive but still faster than greased lightning) and is a stunning captive. Good luck making your decision.


----------



## Bearskin10 (Feb 12, 2006)

In my opinion they are not at all aggressive, a little defensive and nervous but in general more shy and laid back, there venom on the other hand is what you hear, pretty potent for a T, not gona kill you but you will know and regret being bit... I think if you have 2 years experience and are responsible than you are more than ready for a pokie just know your limits with it be very cautious and aware of where it is when you have it enclosure open and you will do fine... 

My female, far from aggressive...







And just for those of you out there wondering no I do not recommend that this species be held by just anyone as they are very fast and there bite can be quite bad...  Greg


----------



## MRL (Feb 12, 2006)

Their aggression is extremely over stated in my opinion. Before I got mine I read about how they are 'semi aggressive' etc etc. Mine have never reared back at me and if bothered (which I do a lot when taking pictures and cleaning/rehousing), they run and can be pretty slick if the tank lid is off but nothing to scare you as long as you're going about it correctly. Their venom is very potent by all accounts.


----------



## Whiskeypunk (Feb 12, 2006)

Your Husband is wrong. P. Regalis is a GREAT intermediate T. 

I have never, ever, ever seen a threat display from my Regalis. My  1 inch G. Aureostriata has given more threat displays. Of course, I have never had to do anything like put nu-skin on a wound or anything. It is very fast, but as long as you provide a safe hiding spot, it will run from you. 

Remember also that pokies don't build tube webs, like avics, they live in tree hollows and nooks and crannies. Mine is extremely happy in an elevated, circular peice of cork bark. 

While the venom is strong for a tarantula, it is NOT DANGEROUS enough to kill. This is like saying a BB gun is dangerous because it is a gun. While a BB gun can do damage, it is not on the same level as a shotgun, or hunting rifle. At the same time, a Pokie is not even close to the same level of a Black Widow, Brown Recluse, or Sydney Funnel web.

Be careful with it, and to treat it like the venomous animal that it is. Clean it's cage with long tongs, and always know where it is.

It is also not the STRONGEST T venom, as I believe Stromatopelma has that regard. Yes, it would suck a lot to get bit, and you may miss a day or so of work. It is HIGHLY doubtful that you will have an allergic reaction to it's venom.

In conclusion. Buy the Pokie. It is awesome. I went from three docile species to a P. Regalis, a P. Murinus, and L. Parahybana. As long as you treat the spider with respect, you will have a stunning spider. Pictures do NOT do justice to the beauty of P. Regalis.


----------



## Thoth (Feb 12, 2006)

Will it be your first arboreal, if not try to convince your husband. You definitely would have the knowledge and experience. If he refuses to budge go with one the Psalmopeus. 

If it is you first arboreal, I would hold off and start off with something less defensive/aggressive just to get used to dealing with arboreals. Then go for the pokie.

They're more defensive than aggressive, treated with respect you should be fine,; but their venom is probably one of the top five worst out there. Not deadly but an experience you never want to repeat (or have for the first time) just read the bite reports


----------



## SavageDigital (Feb 12, 2006)

> It is HIGHLY doubtful that you will have an allergic reaction to it's venom.


Why is that exactly? Why any more or less than other venom reactions, like bee's for example?

About 3% of adults have an anaphylactic reaction to insect venom. While it isn’t a majority issue, the severity of the occurrence means it isn’t something to brush off.  Of course I wouldn’t and haven’t let the possibility dissuade me from getting any venomous animal – but I don’t discount the possibility either.


----------



## Thoth (Feb 12, 2006)

There is nothing allergenic in tarantula venom. There is histamine, though, which is not as bad as it sounds, histamine cannot trigger an allergic reaction but is released as a result of it (end result of one of the pathways). The small amount in a bite is what causes the redness, swelling and itching at the area of the bite.

Bee and snake venoms contain large proteins capable of triggering  an allergic response


----------



## SavageDigital (Feb 13, 2006)

I'm not going to belabor this issue, because it really isn't anything most of us will need to deal with.



> There is nothing allergenic in tarantula venom.


There's nothing –widely- allergenic in tarantula venom. Which simply means it isn’t a common reaction to the exposure from a bite. But any foreign substance injected into the body, however harmless, has the potential for trigging a systemic reaction in certain people. 

The urticating hairs of the New World are a far bigger concern of course. If inhaled they have a high probability of creating an allergic reaction. Also, handlers can become sensitized to the venom through exposure to hairs during handling and maintenance. For those people, the possibility of an unfortunate response is much greater than someone with a single exposure. 

I agree (and have stated) that anaphylaxis is not a likely result of being bitten. But I also don’t see the value in affirmatively suggesting its nothing to consider.


----------



## Whiskeypunk (Feb 13, 2006)

:wall: Reading comprehension.:wall: 



> But any foreign substance injected into the body, however harmless, has the potential for trigging a systemic reaction in certain people.


Only if the Proteins produced by your body in reaction to exposure you are allergic to, or if the large Proteins are injected. Tarantula venom is PEPTIDE based.

This statement is so ridiculously broad that it makes no sense whatsoever, and is being used to further your arguement. So what if some obscure chemical causes a reaction 1 out of every 100 million people. There are cases of allergic reaction to sunlight. These are caused because your body is allergic to LARGE PROTEINS produced in your body by sunlight.

Show me a WELL DOCUMENTED, medically, or scientifically documented case of an allergic reaction to Tarantula venom. Do it. Not just the "you might have an allergic reaction to venom" scare tactics some geocities website is claiming. Or a post where someone took a multi-strike from a Stromatapelma and felt bad for a week. 



> The urticating hairs of the New World are a far bigger concern of course. If inhaled they have a high probability of creating an allergic reaction. Also, handlers can become sensitized to the venom through exposure to hairs during handling and maintenance. For those people, the possibility of an unfortunate response is much greater than someone with a single exposure.


Prove this useless strawman arguement. WHAT? No, WHAT? The person asked about whether VENOM from a Poecilotheria Regalis was dangerous? Not urticating hairs. I can't even think of good analogy here to describe this quote.



> Also, handlers can become sensitized to the venom through exposure to hairs during handling and maintenance.


Are you actually saying that tarantula venom is the same chemical compound as the proteins on urticating hairs? Strange how the Tarantula Keepers Guide doesn't mention this very improtant fact. I have never, ever heard that I can become allergic to the bites of a Tarantula through hair flicking.

Cursory google searches from alllergy.org.nz



> The larger proteins such as phospholipase are responsible for the local and systemic allergic reactions suffered by susceptible individuals. The immune system recognizes these proteins as foreign invaders and mounts an immune reaction against them.


Taratulas do not have these proteins, or other allergenic proteins. These are one type of proteins that cause reactions in insect venom. This is why I said it was highly doubtful that they can cause a reaction.

In conclusion, Tarantula venom is highly unlikely to extremely impossible to cause an allergic reaction. Thoth can easliy make the statement that Tarantula venom has nothing allergenic in it, BECAUSE IT DOESN'T HAVE THE *LARGE PROTEINS* WHICH CAUSE ALLERGIC REACTIONS. Now, there may be some OTHER PROTEIN on the fang which might concievably, (maybe from a cricket) cause a reaction.

finally a science lesson from Thoth:



			
				 Thoth said:
			
		

> A body reacting to a venom and an allergic response are two very different things. An allergic response is an very specific immune cascade involving IgE, histamines, various cytokines et c. Like Lelle stated in the other thread, size of the protein/peptide is a key factor in illiciting an immune response(i.e. allergic reaction). In the lab the only way to generate antibodies for a particular peptide would be to conjugate it to a larger protein (albumin) then injected into the animal. Spider venom is known to be a mix of small peptides and various organic molecules. Also it is extremely rare for a non protein substance to cause an immune response (the reason a person never develops immunity to salmonella or E.coli food poisoning is because the endotoxin that causes it is lipid sacchride not a protein). So it is very likely that it is impossible to be allergic to spider venom.
> 
> DanHalen when a person is "allergic to the sun" the are not allergic to the sun per se but rather the proteins their bodies produce when exposed to the sun.


----------



## SavageDigital (Feb 13, 2006)

Whiskeypunk, maybe you should lay off the coffee, put down the pom-poms, and take some of your own rude advice with the "Reading comprehension". 



> Taratulas do not have these proteins, or other allergenic proteins


Actually they do. Tarantula venom contains the enzymatic protein hyaluronidase. Yes, there are documented and studied cases of allergic reactions to this substance. As much as I hate to waste my time with this forum chest-beating nonsense, here's a quote from the FDA concerning the use of hyaluronidase in an injectable form:



> _Clinical studies have shown hyaluronidase to be effective and that most adverse reactions which may occur with the use of hyaluronidase are allergic reactions. These have been noted to occur infrequently. In large published studies, the frequency of events including anaphylactic-like (allergic) reactions has been less than 0.1 percent._


...yes its a small percentage chance, but its still real and not zero as stated - my only point from the beginning.



> finally a science lesson from Thoth:


Certainly there's good information in what Thoth has written. But with all respect to him/her, I don't need the lesson nor your rabid and rude posting.


----------



## taorchard1987 (Feb 13, 2006)

ZooKeeper78 said:
			
		

> Hi,
> I am new here, I have been keeping T's for about 2 years now.
> I have stuck to the more docile bigginers T's but for the last year now I have been really wanting to try a Indian ornamental Trantula (Poecilotheria regalis).
> I am sure I have the knowledge to care for it but My husband is freaking out saying they are The most aggressive & Venomus T's out there 7 I have read different articles online any every one says somthing different.
> ...



Just go out 1 day, then come back and shout HEY LOOK WHAT I BROUGHT! i do it all the time, i last did it with a kilimanjaro baboon and my dad went kinda mad! lol


----------



## Dreadwraven (Feb 13, 2006)

*My first T was a P. Regalis*

I didn't quite go about starting my collection in the normal way.  I joined the boards, read up on everything, and, although reading and doing are two totally different things, I felt well prepared.

One day, I found a 3" P. Regalis for a great price and I bought it, my very first tarantula.  I was very nervous about cage cleanings and such because of all that I have read.  However, she is very calm, although I would never hold her.  If I need to clean or water, she either stays where she is or moves to the opposite corner.  

Very easy to maintain, very beautiful, by far the hi-light of my collection.  Just tell your hubby to read all the different reports on Rosies.  Just saying that there are stories about every species.


----------



## Aubrey Sidwell (Feb 13, 2006)

Info on Venom. Since some people require "proof" of the dangers. They may be slight but not to be ignored. Also, just to put in a few words about Pokes, they are fast, beautiful, and worthy of any collection. Not for the faint of heart as they will dart out of their home and into yours in the blink of an eye. One key thing to remember if one escapes. DON"T MOVE. They will usually run a very short distance to a dark spot where they feel "safe". Your movements just trigger a response from the spider to keep going until it's safe. I had a P. regalis get out and it ran across the counter and went under the overhang and flattened up on the underside. It was really easy to put a deli cup over it and safely return it to it's home. If you try the deli cup method while it's still running then I guess you don't care if it loses limbs or it's life.

THE TARANTULA KEEPER'S GUIDE,
Second Edition (1998)
ADDENDA 

 "A few species of tarantulas (probably fewer than a dozen) may have a potentially harmful venom." 


It is now known that this estimate is too conservative. As time progresses, evidence is accumulating that as many as 50 species of tarantulas may have medically significant venoms. Specifically, those of the genera Pterinochilus, *Poecilotheria*, Heteroscodra, and Stromatopelma have been reported in anecdotal accounts as producing severe symptoms requiring hospitalization in people bitten by them.

Pg. 143: "Our reaction to tarantula venoms also depends on where we are bitten and our *physiological sensitivity *to the venom." 


Humans exhibit at least a two tier reaction to tarantula (and most other animal) venoms. The first reaction is a direct effect of the venom itself, a *poison pure and simple*. Thus, most people might react to tarantula bites where venom was actually injected with the classic symptoms of swelling and numbness or pain. At the risk of trivializing the principle, one might compare this reaction to "throwing a monkey wrench" into one's biochemical machinery. The principal result is that "things" begin to malfunction or fail completely to work. 

The second type of reaction is the result of an *allergic response *and may be rarer in humans than the first, although much more spectacular and at least as dangerous. It is an extremely complex physiological reaction to the foreign proteins or other components of the venom. This allergic reaction can be as relatively trivial (though nonetheless disconcerting) as a bad case of hives where a tarantula's urticating bristles are involved, *or as serious as anaphylactic shock caused by a reaction to a tarantula's venom*. One might describe this reaction as being an all-out war waged against the foreign substances, but on one's home turf with all the consequent dangers and damage. 

Lastly, because a person is seriously allergic to bee stings does not mean that they will be equally allergic to a tarantula's bite. Many of the substances in the two venoms are vastly different. However, the fact that a person is grievously allergic to bee stings may indicate that they are prone to be allergic to a wide number of substances, or *prone to readily developing such sensitivities (atopy). In that case, they may also be allergic to tarantula venom quite independently of their allergy to bee stings. Both result from the same, root property, not one from the other.*


----------



## Whiskeypunk (Feb 13, 2006)

Apologies about the anger of my post to you NeoScale. I am willing to eat crow about hyaluronidase, even though the chance is super low. I will continue saying there is almost no chance of a reaction. 



> The urticating hairs of the New World are a far bigger concern of course. If inhaled they have a high probability of creating an allergic reaction. Also, handlers can become sensitized to the venom through exposure to hairs during handling and maintenance. For those people, the possibility of an unfortunate response is much greater than someone with a single exposure.


I really do what to know what you mean by this statement and why it was relevant to the discussion on Pokie venom. It was totally confusing the way it's phrased. Were you really saying that Urticating hairs sensitize someone to spider venom? Or was it just bad english, because this was the post that got my goat. 

Icelos:

I asked for well documented, scientific or medically documented case of allergies from tarantula venom. I'm sorry but the T keepers guide is wrong about some things. It is about 8 years old now, and several things are out of date or wrong. 8 years is what? 25% of the time the hobby has been around? If you find one I will examine it.


----------



## angelarachnid (Feb 13, 2006)

I am alergic to spider venom, all the bone joints in my body go red and very itchy, i have to take steroids and anti histamines. Iwas told i was alergic by a doctor.

I have been bitten teice by pokes once by pedersenni and last december by regalis the regalis bite i took an anti histamine within 5 minutes of being bitten and had no other symptoms. 

The worst spider bite i have had was from Steatoda grossa a British house spider (this was the bite i found out i was alergic to spider venom).

Many people over react the the whole thing of Poecilotheria bites and one MUPPET i heard about waited 2 weeks before seeking medical advice:? :? 

I do NOT recomend you try to handle any species of theraphosid spider you may be seriously alergic to the venom so why risk geting bitten like some of the idiots who handle thier spiders do.

Most Poecilotheria are pretty passive (with the exceptions of ornata and rufilata) and would rather run than bite, but wuill bite in defense if you are trying to pick them up with your bare hands.

You have more to be scared by with a bite from a dog than a Poecilotheria.

Ray

Ray


----------



## hamfoto (Feb 13, 2006)

pokies get an incredibly bad rap (on these boards and elsewhere) about their defensiveness/aggresiveness and venom potency...
I think that people are just scared of getting bit by a tarantula or spider...
it's a lot of speculation and people's reactions/comments without really knowing.
Just relax, enjoy it...and get the dang Pokie!

Chris


----------



## xBurntBytheSunx (Feb 13, 2006)

how much do you think a juvie female would cost?  i'm thinking of getting one once my tax check comes back


----------



## Dreadwraven (Feb 13, 2006)

*Pokie Female Cost*

I bought my female pokie at 3" for $35.  The grow pretty quickly, so I would say the savings in buying a juvie vs. adult are worth taking advantage of.


----------



## Thoth (Feb 13, 2006)

NeoScales, for my own edification where did you find the info for the presences of hyaluronidase in tarantula venom because the only literature I could find deals only with it being present in A.hentzi venom. There is no mention of it being present in work of Pierre Escoubas (or I could have missed it) et al who does a lot of venom characterization work. If it is truly widespread in t venom then I will concede they are potentially allergenic.

Angelarachnid, despite their close relationship there is large difference in venoms of tarantulas and "true spiders" (aranaemorphae) so that would explain your severe allergic reaction to spider bites. 

As for the Tarantula Keepers guide, I'd like to know there sources for those claims.


----------



## stonemantis (Feb 13, 2006)

ZooKeeper78 said:
			
		

> Hi,
> I am new here, I have been keeping T's for about 2 years now.
> I have stuck to the more docile bigginers T's but for the last year now I have been really wanting to try a Indian ornamental Trantula (Poecilotheria regalis).
> I am sure I have the knowledge to care for it but My husband is freaking out saying they are The most aggressive & Venomus T's out there 7 I have read different articles online any every one says somthing different.
> ...


P. regalis is the easiest to keep of the pokeys IMHO. If respect and caution is used then you will have a beautiful pet. However them being arboreal and OW makes them a little more nervous and aggressive than similar NW species. I would suggest reading up on the species before buying it to see if the species is for you. I have kept tarantulas for 10 years plus and never have been bit because I respect them and know what signs to look for to prevent a painful bite. 

I hope this helps.


----------



## SavageDigital (Feb 13, 2006)

> NeoScales, for my own edification where did you find the info for the presences of hyaluronidase in tarantula venom because the only literature I could find deals only with it being present in A.hentzi venom.


Well I didn't compile a list, but here's a published analysis of Brachypelma vagans from the Journal of Venomous Animals and Toxins in 2001:

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0104-79302001000200033&lng=en&nrm=iso

...Aphonopelma chalcodes was also mentioned in another article. Since I don't know how extensive venom is analyzed for hyaluronidase, or more importantly how often that information is deemed important enough to make its way into published articles – I can’t suggest its pervasiveness. But I also don’t know why is would be exclusive to B. vagans and not inclusive of the entire Brachypelma genus, considering how closely connected they are. 

In no way am I suggesting the presence of hyaluronidase is a big deal, pervasive or not. I point it out only to suggest that there’s no reason to take an absolutists stance on potential reactions to tarantula venom. We only differ in opinion by about 0.1%...


----------



## Sevenrats (Feb 14, 2006)

> . This is like saying a BB gun is dangerous because it is a gun. While a BB gun can do damage, it is not on the same level as a shotgun, or hunting rifle.


You'll knock your eye out, kid.


----------



## ZooKeeper78 (Feb 15, 2006)

Thanks Everyone you have helped me out alot, still a hard decision though.
My husband is just being a little too protective over me, as I am 5 months pregnant & I do have allergies.
I have been into T's for 2 years now & this will not be my first arborial I am in an animal Department at the zoo & have quite a bit of arachnid experience, I just dont want somthing that will attack as soon as I lift a lid to feed of water it. 

Thanks!


----------



## CedrikG (Feb 15, 2006)

Bearskin10 said:
			
		

> In my opinion they are not at all aggressive, a little defensive and nervous but in general more shy and laid back, there venom on the other hand is what you hear, pretty potent for a T, not gona kill you but you will know and regret being bit... I think if you have 2 years experience and are responsible than you are more than ready for a pokie just know your limits with it be very cautious and aware of where it is when you have it enclosure open and you will do fine...
> 
> And just for those of you out there wondering no I do not recommend that this species be held by just anyone as they are very fast and there bite can be quite bad...  Greg



Really nothing to add, those who say that Poecilotheria are very agressive just know nothing to Poecilotheria, or they have a very stressed specimen ... This said every individu are different, and some species are more nervous then other. Personally my Poecilotheria formosa is a bit more nervous

Go for a regalis they,re a good begining into the pokie world, and they're very beautifull
Dont do this with your Poecilotheria


----------

