# People that handle their hot T's



## RoseT (Mar 25, 2011)

I see pics in the gallery section of people holding their "hot" T's if the OW sp is even considered a hot sp. But I just want to ask those that actively handle their OW sp. Why do you do it?. lol..I mean they are your T's and all, but are you so sure that they will not bite?,...Why would you put yourself in that danger to begin with. I just dont get it....I odnt even handle mine, and my "hottest T, is a P. Irminia. I just dont see the risk being worth it, even though they seem to be docile..


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## Mojo Jojo (Mar 25, 2011)

I think it comes down to either thrill seeking or some form dominance related behavior.


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## jt39565 (Mar 25, 2011)

For me I know my T's and interact with them on a frequent basis. Yes they are wild, but I know what they are capable of and know the risks, I have never been bitten(yet). I don't handle my OBT's, I do handle my A. brock, and my B. smithi regularly but for short periods, my G. pulchra is always molting so I leave it alone.


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## syndicate (Mar 25, 2011)

RoseT said:


> Why do you do it?. lol..I mean they are your T's and all, but are you so sure that they will not bite?,...Why would you put yourself in that danger to begin with. I just dont get it....I odnt even handle mine, and my "hottest T, is a P. Irminia. I just dont see the risk being worth it, even though they seem to be docile..


Most people prob just to show off!I agree with you tho it is not worth risking getting bit or the spider injuring themselves!
-Chris


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## Rob1985 (Mar 25, 2011)

let me exploit this winner... :wall:

[YOUTUBE]tX5h-IEBh08[/YOUTUBE]


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## dannyboypede (Mar 26, 2011)

He could have at least worn a shirt...:wall::barf:

I read here on the boards that a lot of T's will only be skittish when out of their territory.:? I don't know. I still wouldn't do it...for free.

--Dan


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## Rob1985 (Mar 26, 2011)

dannyboypede said:


> He could have at least worn a shirt...:wall::barf:
> 
> I read here on the boards that a lot of T's will only be skittish when out of their territory.:? I don't know. I still wouldn't do it...for free.
> 
> --Dan


 and he drops it her too...


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## Fran (Mar 26, 2011)

Rob1985 said:


> let me exploit this winner... :wall:


Heh,actually i was trying to find that video for some time.

He owns the Physics Nobel, just in case you guys didnt know.


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## Mojo Jojo (Mar 26, 2011)

He explained why he wasn't wearing the shirt.


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## Rob1985 (Mar 26, 2011)

Fran said:


> Heh,actually i was trying to find that video for some time.
> 
> He owns the Physics Nobel, just in case you guys didnt know.


 no problem.. I actually ran across the vid a few weeks ago when searching for "S.calceatum" vids.


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## toast4nat (Mar 26, 2011)

Whooo... that was intense, and stupid. But gotta say he's a pretty brave guy to do that with the feather leg. I winced when she fell though.


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## dannyboypede (Mar 26, 2011)

Big Dragonfly said:


> He explained why he wasn't wearing the shirt.


There is no explanation or justification for such actions . 

(I didn't watch the whole thing or listen to what he was saying because I am in a room with other people.)

--Dan


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## Fran (Mar 26, 2011)

Brave?


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## skippy (Mar 26, 2011)

Sometimes it just happens... I've had more than one pokie pop out of it's container and crawl up my arm while rehousing.

And some people like cacoseraph or mike troll just seem to enjoy discovering new levels of pain:}


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## Mojo Jojo (Mar 26, 2011)

dannyboypede said:


> There is no explanation or justification for such actions .
> 
> (I didn't watch the whole thing or listen to what he was saying because I am in a room with other people.)
> 
> --Dan


He isn't wearing a shirt so if in the event the t runs out of his line of site, he can feel exactly where it is in order to get it back onto his hand.


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## Rob1985 (Mar 26, 2011)

Big Dragonfly said:


> He isn't wearing a shirt so if in the event the t runs out of his line of site, he can feel exactly where it is in order to get it back onto his hand.


 it still doesn't justify him being a moron though... :wall:


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## astraldisaster (Mar 26, 2011)

I've been wondering the same thing, but have recently seen a few videos of people handling pokies that seem downright calm and docile. Still a huge risk, and one I'm not sure I will ever take, but it makes me think it _can_ be done under the right circumstances. I've also heard of people being bitten by not very "hot" Ts (G. rosea, etc), so really handling any species of giant spider with pointy fangs and venom is a risk.

---------- Post added at 11:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:16 PM ----------

[YOUTUBE]TaZ2v5zS-z8[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]f96ITTEsGmA[/YOUTUBE]

I don't necessarily think these people are _completely insane_ for handling their pokies, for instance...though they might have unusually docile specimens. Again, don't know if I'd try it myself.


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## Earthworm Soul (Mar 26, 2011)

Rob1985 said:


> let me exploit this winner... :wall:
> 
> [YOUTUBE]tX5h-IEBh08[/YOUTUBE]


Hahaha... that's my friend Mike. He lost a finger to a sidewinder bite recently. I'm sure you're shocked.


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## Rob1985 (Mar 26, 2011)

Earthworm Soul said:


> Hahaha... that's my friend Mike. He lost a finger to a sidewinder bite recently. I'm sure you're shocked.


 Karma... :clap:


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## Earthworm Soul (Mar 26, 2011)

Rob1985 said:


> Karma... :clap:


Don't get me wrong, I love Mike despite the idiotic things he does and the dumb theories he believes in...

But it must be noted that he has never been bitten by a T, so... take what you will from that.

Hey, in case you're reading this What, that's Medicine Man in the video.


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## RoseT (Mar 26, 2011)

side winder?....huh? lol....i dont know, i mean theres people that enjoy this type of stuff i guess...power and luck to those  that make it happen...Ill just sit back and trip out on you dudes...hahaha


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## Mojo Jojo (Mar 26, 2011)

I don't see the problem with the way that he was handling his tarantulas.  I watched the video a couple times and what I can say is that he was that he set the area up in a way that would let him make a good video while keeping himself and his tarantulas relatively safe.  

I guarantee he isn't the first person to have taken his shirt off before handling his tarantula. I've done this and I've read of others on this site doing this.  It lets you know where the tarantula is when it runs to your back.  I can't see any downside in this at all.  

He is working with the tarantulas in a wide open space, so if they jet, like one did, he would have no problem getting the spider back.  

He was working on the ground, so if the the spider fell, like it did when he flinched when he thought he was going to get tagged, it wouldn't have very far to fall.  And lets think about this a little bit more.  He is working with arborials.  It is common for them to jump and take bigger falls than what we saw on this video.

Fact of the matter, is that neither he, nor his tarantulas were harmed during this video and it appeared that he got some really nice shots with his camera.  

This definitely isn't something that most people should do.  He seemed like he was pretty comfortable doing it and if he got bit, I'm going to imagine he'd take it like a man.

---------- Post added at 01:34 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:20 AM ----------




astraldisaster said:


> I've been wondering the same thing, but have recently seen a few videos of people handling pokies that seem downright calm and docile...


I've been seeing more posts lately about the supposed docile nature of pokies and they looked pretty docile in the videos that you posted.  But the bite reports for these guys seem like something that I don't ever want to experience, so for now and probably forever, I'll just have to enjoy other people's pics and vids...but damn, they are gorgeous.


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## NikiP (Mar 26, 2011)

Just wanted to add that some pictures may not have been done on purpose. Sometimes an opportunity may present itself.

I always keep a camera around when rehousing so I can get new pictures while the tarantula is out in the open. Sometime they take off & end up on me, & i'll snap a pic. That I get them off me as quickly & calmly as possible


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## rabidchipmunk91 (Mar 26, 2011)

The only time I'll handle mine is if they get out and I don't have a container to catch them with. I just don't see the point.


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## killy (Mar 26, 2011)

I thought it was interesting, and significant, that his attitude toward the possibility of a bite was matter-of-fact, but he drew the line at handling an A genic, because of the _hairs._

This guy is quite experienced, as evidenced by the adroit way he anticipates the pokie's every (quick) move - if could be a circus act!


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## Scolopeon (Mar 26, 2011)

There is certainly some fascination with handling a hotter T, if I ever do it.. it is from a freshly molted individual..

This one had molted a couple of days prior to this and it's fangs were dark red and not fully hardened... This could be instilling me with a false sense of confidence but I chanced it.

[YOUTUBE]zsjEl82Thd4[/YOUTUBE]


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## tebs (Mar 26, 2011)

Why do some people get upset when tarantulas are handled? Some even judge the person base on the fact of handling Ts.... c'mon get over it...it's a matter of preference....no wrong no right....handling a T doesn't make you more or less of a person.....some people like to handle them some don't...some like rice some like bread....some think too much body building is the same as being morbidly obese, then some thinks its hot...it's preference, it's perspective....


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## Fran (Mar 26, 2011)

:           ?


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## Rob1985 (Mar 26, 2011)

tebs said:


> Why do some people get upset when tarantulas are handled? Some even judge the person base on the fact of handling Ts.... c'mon get over it...it's a matter of preference....no wrong no right....handling a T doesn't make you more or less of a person.....some people like to handle them some don't...some like rice some like bread....some think too much body building is the same as being morbidly obese, then some thinks its hot...it's preference, it's perspective....


 I judge b/c it's stressful and shows a lack of respect for the spider. I can understand handling of a docile species here and there, but this pretty bold and stupid. 

There's a difference between bravery and stupidity :wall:


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## dannyboypede (Mar 26, 2011)

tebs said:


> Why do some people get upset when tarantulas are handled? Some even judge the person base on the fact of handling Ts.... c'mon get over it...it's a matter of preference....no wrong no right....handling a T doesn't make you more or less of a person.....some people like to handle them some don't...some like rice some like bread....some think too much body building is the same as being morbidly obese, then some thinks its hot...it's preference, it's perspective....


And Fran think tebs need Hulk smash!

--Dan


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## BCscorp (Mar 26, 2011)

Anyone here like Steve Irwin?


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## Scolopeon (Mar 26, 2011)

Hahahaha that made me chuckle when his T bolted, seeing him scamper after it like a monkey. 
Gonna have to add this one to a playlist.

Dam that thing can move though ... S.Calciatum has got to be in the top 3 fastest T's.


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## Mojo Jojo (Mar 26, 2011)

Bold is when someone acts in spite of the apparent danger.  Stupid is when someone acts without knowledge.  

The guy in the video knew the dangers and did what he could to mitigate those dangers.  So he may be bold, but I wouldn't call him stupid.  

You gotta understand that everyone is different and that its not fair to judge everyone by the same rulebook. Everyone is different just like every tarantula is different.  I think its safe to say we all still remember the rosehair conversation that got way out of hand from from the other day.


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## Scolopeon (Mar 26, 2011)

Big Dragonfly said:


> Bold is when someone acts in spite of the apparent danger.  Stupid is when someone acts without without knowledge.
> 
> The guy in the video knew the dangers and did what he could to mitigate those dangers.  So he may be bold, but I wouldn't call him stupid.
> 
> You gotta understand that everyone is different and that its not fair to judge everyone by the same rulebook. Everyone is different just like every tarantula is different.  I think its safe to say we all still remember the rosehair conversation that got way out of hand from from the other day.


Agreed,

It is apparent he is not an amatuer, but he knows fully that he is taking risks.


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## micheldied (Mar 26, 2011)

Rob1985 said:


> I judge b/c it's stressful and shows a lack of respect for the spider. I can understand handling of a docile species here and there, but this pretty bold and stupid.
> 
> There's a difference between bravery and stupidity :wall:


What's the difference between handling a docile, and a more nervous species? Are you saying the stress levels are different?

I've handled most of the Ts I've had, pokies and all(only when moving enclosures or when I've just popped em out of the package though), and I know the risks. I have never done it to show that I'm "brave". There have never been any adverse effects on the Ts I've handled.

I don't understand all the fuss with people handling their Ts, as long as it's done with the least danger possible to the animal.


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## Rob1985 (Mar 27, 2011)

micheldied said:


> What's the difference between handling a docile, and a more nervous species? Are you saying the stress levels are different?
> 
> I've handled most of the Ts I've had, pokies and all(only when moving enclosures or when I've just popped em out of the package though), and I know the risks. I have never done it to show that I'm "brave". There have never been any adverse effects on the Ts I've handled.
> 
> I don't understand all the fuss with people handling their Ts, as long as it's done with the least danger possible to the animal.


 it's stressful... I prefer to leave it where it's comfortable.


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## Fran (Mar 27, 2011)

Sorry, but doing something that is potentially dangerous ,and medically detrimental towards your own self, for the heck of it , with no benefict whatsoever for either parts, it is stupidity in my book.

I dont give much credit to a guy with 9 fingers due to his "bravery".

PS: To the guy that mixed bodybuilding with this... Its 9 o clock, let me give you a comb. :?


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## Rob1985 (Mar 27, 2011)

Fran said:


> Sorry, but doing something that is potentially dangerous ,and medically detrimental towards your own self, for the heck of it , with no benefict whatsoever for either parts, it is stupidity in my book.
> 
> I dont give much credit to a guy with 9 fingers due to his "bravery".


nature is scary... I had my fill of adrenaline and scary "stuff" in the Army.


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## micheldied (Mar 27, 2011)

Rob1985 said:


> it's stressful... I prefer to leave it where it's comfortable.


Like I said, I was moving the Ts anyways.


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## Philth (Mar 27, 2011)

I've always preferred the "pet fish" view on handling spiders.  Pretty to look at , no need to handle.

Later, Tom


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## Hamburglar (Mar 27, 2011)

Philth said:


> I've always preferred the "pet fish" view on handling spiders.  Pretty to look at , no need to handle.
> 
> Later, Tom


I couldn't help but think of the relatively new aquarium that was built in our area.  They have a "petting tank" where you can touch some of the critters in it.  Even fish aren't safe anymore....


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## phoenixxavierre (Mar 27, 2011)

I don't see at all how handling a tarantula is disrespectful to the tarantula. It's a bug, for Christ's sake. Nor do I see how it causes any harmful stress. I'm sure the shipping process is far more stressful than any handling. In the wild, these creatures deal with all manner of interaction with their natural environment, from wind, to other creatures trying to eat them or getting eaten by them. Some are even known to hang around human habitations, for example, some pokes in sri lanka are known to be underneath picnic tables, webbed up in their funnels, and no one knows the better until they go looking! 

I've been handling critters that I keep since childhood. I've handled literally thousands of tarantulas of all sizes during the past decade plus, and been bitten only twice (possibly by the same spiderling, an L. parahybana spiderling two weeks young), and this was while separating 1500 spiderlings out from the mother's tank. Never been tagged by a big boy or girl. I handle less now than when I was younger, but I still do, for my own entertainment, and occasionally for others. 

Tarantulas, like snakes, prefer to save their venom for their prey, and are more likely to deliver a dry bite or a bite with little venom than to waste it in self-defense when they're not even being harmed. The old worlders without urticating hair defense, or arboreals without poop shooting defense, are perhaps more likely to bite, however, I can't say that with any certainty as I've had some hairy new worlders that were downright unapproachable. 

I started handling because of my first t, who was always wanting to come out and explore. He'd hang for hours on the edge of his tank, kicking his legs, trying to get out. So I obliged. He was one of the best pet rocks I've ever kept, and exquisitely creepy, long-legged black male with copper carapace. Just beautiful!

There's always a slight risk, but then there's probably a statistically stronger risk of getting in a car accident or misjudging one's own step and tripping, resulting in a broken bone or at least some broken skin. Anyways, I enjoy interacting with my t's and still do it at least once a month. In fact, I'm going to be placing a male P. fasciata with a female (of the same, of course) and I'm only looking partially forward to the transference experience, male to female's tank. Problem is, the male likes to hide most the time. P. fasciata, along with other pokes, have a particularly hot venom, akin to that of a black widow, which causes cramps, muscle spams, etc. Thank god they know the difference between their food and myself. Never been bitten by any adults or even juveniles yet, but I'll be sure to let you all know if I get tagged during the next fasciata breeding attempt. ;P


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## Tremors (Mar 27, 2011)

If it was a G. pulchripes or a Curly Hair I could see handling it a bit, but this species?

I raise scorpions, P. transvaalicus, L.Q., A. mauretanicus...and I have never handled any of these animals.  I have a detailed and rigid set of proceedures I use to feed them and clean and fix their cages, and outside of the babies, all the adults are under lock and key.

I know this is a Tarantula forum but I've seen this type of reckless behavior exhibited by scorpion keepers - 

Case in point...For your approval...

Another Mensa candidate!

http://www.youtube.com/user/brandonjaeger#p/u/2/Q4fRHBMHveE

http://www.youtube.com/user/brandonjaeger#p/u/0/ybvYasFcMGY


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## dannyboypede (Mar 27, 2011)

phoenixxavierre said:


> I don't see at all how handling a tarantula is disrespectful to the tarantula. It's a bug, for Christ's sake. Nor do I see how it causes any harmful stress. I'm sure the shipping process is far more stressful than any handling. In the wild, these creatures deal with all manner of interaction with their natural environment, from wind, to other creatures trying to eat them or getting eaten by them. Some are even known to hang around human habitations, for example, some pokes in sri lanka are known to be underneath picnic tables, webbed up in their funnels, and no one knows the better until they go looking!
> 
> I've been handling critters that I keep since childhood. I've handled literally thousands of tarantulas of all sizes during the past decade plus, and been bitten only twice (possibly by the same spiderling, an L. parahybana spiderling two weeks young), and this was while separating 1500 spiderlings out from the mother's tank. Never been tagged by a big boy or girl. I handle less now than when I was younger, but I still do, for my own entertainment, and occasionally for others.
> 
> ...


I sincerely hope the *bold* statement is not the death of this thread, however I think it may be. 

If tarantulas save their venom for prey, why is it that the _majority_ of bite reports include "I saw clear liquid come out of one (or both) of the holes," (or some other variation including the sight of clear liquid) and the victim experiences symptoms of a "wet" bite? These same bite reports also clearly state that the tarantula was acting defensively.

--Dan


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## Formerphobe (Mar 27, 2011)

What Tom said about the pet fish view...  I have handled most of my Ts on rare unpacking, re-housing or molt assist occasion, but I don't make a habit of it.

I have only one 'hot' T, an OBT.  Ironically, I have spent more 'time' handling this particular T than any of the others. It was small enough at the time for any potential bite to be of little consequence.  It was an unplanned unpacking incident/accident... and won't be happening again anytime soon.

Strokes, folks.  Some people like the thrill they receive, or the shock value it causes others.  Other people may be comfortable enough that it is second nature to them.   I'm comfortable with handling large aggressive dogs.  Not to 'breed profile', but I'd take on a room full of Pit Bulls over a single Pokie any day.


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## BigJ999 (Mar 27, 2011)

All of all the scorpians the guy could handel yesh  A deathstalker really bad bad choice to handel. I don't handel my hot T's because most of them will bite sooner then be held.


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## Rob1985 (Mar 27, 2011)

Sooo... I can summarize that we're 50/50 on handling certain species. By handling a defensive and fast species you take the risk of being bit. If bit, others also reserve the right to say "told ya so".


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## phoenixxavierre (Mar 27, 2011)

dannyboypede said:


> I sincerely hope the *bold* statement is not the death of this thread, however I think it may be.
> 
> If tarantulas save their venom for prey, why is it that the _majority_ of bite reports include "I saw clear liquid come out of one (or both) of the holes," (or some other variation including the sight of clear liquid) and the victim experiences symptoms of a "wet" bite? These same bite reports also clearly state that the tarantula was acting defensively.
> 
> --Dan


Well, aren't you self-righteous? ;P

That would be a question only you could answer, mate, but I can tell you this, that even though I haven't been bitten but by two spiderlings, I have been stung by a few scorpions, and yes I have handled some hot scorpions, not many though, as well as the offspring of large centipedes, and some medium size 'pedes, and been bit by them as well, not to mention bees and spiders, the latter of which I've been bitten by multiple times, and witnessed both clearly, bites with the use of venom and "dry" bites. I don't imagine there is such a giant gap between use of venom between spiders and tarantulas. Are you saying that they are incapable of delivering a dry bite? Most of the bites I received from the other sources listed had to have been dry bites/stings or I would have suffered much more than I did. 

I could also list how many times I've been bitten by rats, hamsters, mice, dogs, cats, snakes, birds, and I'm sure other things, not to mention people. And to be honest, I think that most of those are capable of far more damage than a tarantula. People get killed by their dogs on a surprisingly frequent basis, yet we don't go around saying "Feed that dog, but don't touch it! It could turn on you at any moment!" It's just that these critters are unfamiliar to us, more so than dogs. I think it's just as preposterous to be worried about handling a t as it would be for most to pet their dog. Granted, one is a mammal and the other isn't, still, more people have died from dog attacks, and how many from tarantulas? Exactly. Knowing that people are capable of murder doesn't stop me from wanting to be intimate with others. I don't know. I guess I just don't get it, beyond the initial reluctance programmed into most from millennium of misinformation, that initial slight arachnophobia that many people experience when they first come into the hobby.


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## Blackbeard (Mar 27, 2011)

Big Dragonfly said:


> I think it comes down to either thrill seeking or some form dominance related behavior.


Surely it can be classified psycologicaly.
A friend of mine, he got me interested in T's actually, bought a single tarantula and it HAD to be expensive and have potent venom.
It turned out to be a P. Metallica at the time and I got the distinct association with a hooligan buying a pitbull just to show off because he kept going on and on about how potent the bite was and how much money it cost.


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## phoenixxavierre (Mar 27, 2011)

I think of it more as a matter of personal preference, like the difference between crunchy and creamy peanut butter. And nothing is wrong with either way. It's a personal choice. Scorning or shaming people because they handle their tarantulas (or don't handle them) is no different than someone shaming or scorning you for any other personal choice you might make as an adult. Sure, you can get diseases from particular behaviors, and there is that risk, but guess what, people do it anyway. Why some do and why some don't? There are as many reasons as there are people.


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## astraldisaster (Mar 27, 2011)

> People get killed by their dogs on a surprisingly frequent basis, yet we don't go around saying "Feed that dog, but don't touch it! It could turn on you at any moment!" It's just that these critters are unfamiliar to us, more so than dogs. I think it's just as preposterous to be worried about handling a t as it would be for most to pet their dog. Granted, one is a mammal and the other isn't, still, more people have died from dog attacks, and how many from tarantulas? Exactly. Knowing that people are capable of murder doesn't stop me from wanting to be intimate with others.


It's not even remotely the same thing. Unlike a spider, a dog has the capability of forming an attachment to humans, of perceiving us as a source of food, fun, play, comfort, etc. Sure, it would be unwise to pet a dog whose background you don't know, or that is showing signs of aggression. However, it's pretty rare for a friendly dog that doesn't have aggression issues and has been treated well by humans its entire life to just "turn on people," especially its owner. Same with humans. Unless the people I'm close with are secretly sociopaths, I don't think I have to worry about being murdered by them.



> I guess I just don't get it, beyond the initial reluctance programmed into most from millennium of misinformation, that initial slight arachnophobia that many people experience when they first come into the hobby.


I don't think there's anything "wrong" with handling your potentially dangerous Ts, if you're experienced and willing to take the risk. I'm not saying I'll never ever attempt to handle a pokie. But I doubt those in the hobby that prefer to abstain are at all arachnophobic...seems more like a healthy respect for the nature of these creatures (and the potency of their venom) to me.


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## Mojo Jojo (Mar 27, 2011)

I should note that the opinion that I'm conveying in this post is in regard to tarantulas only.  I have yet to read of a tarantula envenomation that resulted in human related death and/or anaphylaxis.  

With this in mind, I'd much rather see a thread about someone that handles a hottish tarantula with respect than a person that handles a rosie without any.


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## Fran (Mar 27, 2011)

phoenixxavierre said:


> I could also list how many times I've been bitten by rats, hamsters, mice, dogs, cats, snakes, birds, and I'm sure other things, not to mention people. And to be honest, I think that most of those are capable of far more damage than a tarantula. People get killed by their dogs on a surprisingly frequent basis, yet we don't go around saying "Feed that dog, but don't touch it! It could turn on you at any moment!".



How can someone make such a silly...Observation??


How can you compare an animal such  a dog; mamal,*domesticated for thousands of years*, with a tarantula??

Didnt you really see the nonsense of your comment while you were typing it??
Im not being sarcastic, Im absolutely serious. 

It is not about the size of the  damage at all, I dont think you are quite getting it. 
 Before humans were buying Yorkshire to take them to the Puppy-saloon, we were using those dogs for hunting, getting ridd of pests, using them for work  and daily living activities. They were domesticated by necessity for over thousands of years.

You dont get quite the point. Is not about the exotic of the animal... Its about the stupidity of exposing yourself  and your family to an unnecessary risk.

Let me give you an example; There are people whos job is to fix TV-Radio Antenas working all day at 2000 feet, and there are kids who climb up  contruction cranes at 2000feet...For the hell of it. 
Is the guy whos job is climbing a 2000feet  metal pole stupid? NO. 
Are the kids stupid? Yes they are. Why? Because the risk is way greater that the benefict you get from it. (If any at all) .
Thats what we, ( at least me ) are pointing out.

Someone menctioned  Steve Irwin. Why? Because he did many crazy things with animals? Because he died the way he did? 
He had a very important purpose, and a very noble one. He was a huge conservationist contributor, he worked all his life on research of wild life and he did what he did as a living.

You cant possibly compare him or anyone like him with a stupid kid handling a Phoneutria.

Hey, its your life, live it as you wish...But dont expect to be stupid-proof while doing it..Cos you might just be stupid.


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## Mojo Jojo (Mar 27, 2011)

I'm pretty sure the Steve Irwin comment was an attempt at trolling.


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## BCscorp (Mar 28, 2011)

Big Dragonfly said:


> I'm pretty sure the Steve Irwin comment was an attempt at trolling.


I'm pretty sure it was an attempt to see if any of the nay-sayers like Steve Irwin in regards to how he handled dangerous animals. If any of them watched Steve and liked his show, I can't see why they would have a problem with this guy. He seems to know what he is risking to himself and the spider, so if that's what he chooses to do....
If it seemed trollish on my part, put it down to my lack of communication skills, and I meant no disrespect to Steve Irwin, there is no comparison other than the one I made.


----------



## Mojo Jojo (Mar 28, 2011)

Touché.  

Apparently I have to write more than Touché in order to post a reply, so I'm writing this sentence about having to write more than Touché in order to post a reply.


----------



## jgod790 (Mar 28, 2011)

I personally think its pretty cool/fun to handle tarantulas, how ever I would never handle an OBT, species or a Haplopelma Lividum, and probably not even a T Blondi. If you want to handle a T, stick to a G rosea or a Smithi or something along those lines.


----------



## phoenixxavierre (Mar 28, 2011)

astraldisaster said:


> It's not even remotely the same thing. Unlike a spider, a dog has the capability of forming an attachment to humans, of perceiving us as a source of food, fun, play, comfort, etc. Sure, it would be unwise to pet a dog whose background you don't know, or that is showing signs of aggression. However, it's pretty rare for a friendly dog that doesn't have aggression issues and has been treated well by humans its entire life to just "turn on people," especially its owner. Same with humans. Unless the people I'm close with are secretly sociopaths, I don't think I have to worry about being murdered by them.


The principle is the same. 5 million people every year are bitten by their "faithful" pooches. 800,000 bites per year require medical attention. 1000 people go to hospital, emergency rooms for dog bite treatment every day. In the past couple decades, dog bites have gone up nearly 90%. Most of the victims were children or the elderly. 16 to 17000 people over 16 years of age were bitten while working. 2900 mail carriers are bitten every year. Dog bites are the 5th leading cause of hospital visits for children. Americans have a 1 in 50 chance of being bit each year. Deaths from dog-bites last year was 34. The rate has been rising.

And let me tell you something. People are people. I have known a number of people who given the chance would gladly murder a stranger just to see what the experience is like. You think you know someone? I've been surprised. Chances are, you would be too, if you really knew people. And that is the problem with sociopaths, even if you're really close, you may not recognize what lies deeper beneath the surface



astraldisaster said:


> I don't think there's anything "wrong" with handling your potentially dangerous Ts, if you're experienced and willing to take the risk. I'm not saying I'll never ever attempt to handle a pokie. But I doubt those in the hobby that prefer to abstain are at all arachnophobic...seems more like a healthy respect for the nature of these creatures (and the potency of their venom) to me.


True, however, many get into the hobby as a result of their facing their fears. And some keepers are actually afraid of their keeps. They don't handle nor do they want to because the idea scares them. Then others don't handle because they feel not doing so is respectful to the animal. I don't handle very often anymore. I used to. Nowadays, it's for necessity, such as breeding projects, or simply boredom, so I seek some interaction.


----------



## Sleazoid (Mar 28, 2011)

Rob1985 said:


> let me exploit this winner... :wall:
> 
> [YOUTUBE]tX5h-IEBh08[/YOUTUBE]


Medicine man (at least that is what I knew him ass) has been in this hobby for quite some time. I know for almost about ten years now, if he even is in the hobby anymore. I don't know when that video was taken. He does know what he is doing, he is a complete douche but he isn't stupid. He has kept real hots, not just OW tarantulas. So maybe it isn't best to judge the guy before you know him yeah? He is very knowledgeable in the animal he keeps actually. If he handles or not is his decision, even if it is one I don't agree with, he can still do it.

I knew him a long time ago on a myspace forum called herpetology 101 or something like that. Had a lot of people, and he was one of the more knowledgeable ones, and not just when it came to herps.





Earthworm Soul said:


> Hahaha... that's my friend Mike. He lost a finger to a sidewinder bite recently. I'm sure you're shocked.


You still talk to him? Damn, I saw him on youtube one day and completely forgot about it until I saw his youtube username. I wonder how many other people are on here from that forum?


----------



## phoenixxavierre (Mar 28, 2011)

Fran said:


> How can someone make such a silly...Observation??
> 
> 
> How can you compare an animal such  a dog; mamal,*domesticated for thousands of years*, with a tarantula??
> ...


Spiders and tarantulas have coexisted along mankind for a very long time. Just because they're not on leashes in OUR country, doesn't mean they don't have a relationship with the natives. People have eaten tarantulas for a very long time, and they have eaten dog too. And there are loads and loads of folklore based on native observing spiders/tarantulas. The comparison is in the bite rate. The issue here is people handling hot ts, and the reason it is an issue is due to potential envenomation (the pain and discomfort involved). Dogs don't have venom, dogs are fuzzy and cuddly, dogs have four legs not eight, dogs are much bigger than a tarantula, dogs are sooo different. SO WHAT? The issue here we're talking about is getting bit due to handling. There is absolutely nothing wrong with my comparison. Where did you get your physics degree? cracker jack box? you ought to know that the real deal is in connections, not divisions. Sure, divisions help us to study things more closely, but the real deal is in connections, how everything is connected. If you really knew anything about physics it would show in your posts. You apparently just went through the motions without really thinking about the concepts involved. 

Fran, don't you ever really think before you post comments or do you just see a comment you don't like and rather than giving it thought you attack it outright?? I think perhaps you need to re-read what I wrote. Yes, it IS about exposing oneself to danger. When I was growing up, I knew a woman who was severely mauled by her faithful saint bernards. She had to have them put down. Now i love dogs but the truth of it is that we ALL know what dogs are capable of. For most people, dogs are unnecessary pets. We have them because we want them, not because we need them. And in having them, we are exposing ourselves to the same statistics as everyone else. We live with that chance that something could go terribly wrong. And it's every where we go, not just at home with our dogs or tarantulas, or up on a wind turbine, or crossing the street, it's everywhere. We take much larger risks on a daily basis. 

So are you saying, Fran, that taking a risk is unacceptable unless there is a benefit to YOU? Well, you are entitled to see it the way you want. 

Someone mentioned Steve Irwin (great man) because I used the word "mate". 

Fran, in case you've forgotten, you were a "stupid kid" once too, and by the sounds of it, may still be. Why you feel the need to tell me to live my life as I see fit is beyond me. After all, it is my life, and it's not negatively effecting you, so why do you feel the need to give me "permission" to do as I please as if you have some authority to give permission? I don't need yours. All people are connected, but all people are individuals as well. It's what makes life beautiful. So live a little. Take some risks that aren't going to necessarily benefit you. 

My myself, I take risks just breathing. It doesn't matter what we do in life, when our number is up, it's up. Doesn't matter how careful you are, or aren't. When that time comes, the fat lady sings, and nothing can stop that.


----------



## Great Basin Ben (Mar 28, 2011)

Rob1985 said:


> let me exploit this winner... :wall:
> 
> [YOUTUBE]tX5h-IEBh08[/YOUTUBE]


I was REALLY hoping to see this unnecessary behavior rewarded with at least a POKE, but instead all I got to see were some lame tattoos.:?


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## Scolopeon (Mar 28, 2011)

phoenixxavierre said:


> Spiders and tarantulas have coexisted along mankind for a very long time. Just because they're not on leashes in OUR country, doesn't mean they don't have a relationship with the natives. People have eaten tarantulas for a very long time, and they have eaten dog too. And there are loads and loads of folklore based on native observing spiders/tarantulas. The comparison is in the bite rate. The issue here is people handling hot ts, and the reason it is an issue is due to potential envenomation (the pain and discomfort involved). Dogs don't have venom, dogs are fuzzy and cuddly, dogs have four legs not eight, dogs are much bigger than a tarantula, dogs are sooo different. SO WHAT? The issue here we're talking about is getting bit due to handling. There is absolutely nothing wrong with my comparison. Where did you get your physics degree? cracker jack box? you ought to know that the real deal is in connections, not divisions. Sure, divisions help us to study things more closely, but the real deal is in connections, how everything is connected. If you really knew anything about physics it would show in your posts. You apparently just went through the motions without really thinking about the concepts involved.
> 
> Fran, don't you ever really think before you post comments or do you just see a comment you don't like and rather than giving it thought you attack it outright?? I think perhaps you need to re-read what I wrote. Yes, it IS about exposing oneself to danger. When I was growing up, I knew a woman who was severely mauled by her faithful saint bernards. She had to have them put down. Now i love dogs but the truth of it is that we ALL know what dogs are capable of. For most people, dogs are unnecessary pets. We have them because we want them, not because we need them. And in having them, we are exposing ourselves to the same statistics as everyone else. We live with that chance that something could go terribly wrong. And it's every where we go, not just at home with our dogs or tarantulas, or up on a wind turbine, or crossing the street, it's everywhere. We take much larger risks on a daily basis.
> 
> ...


Fran is a big angry body builder, take what he says with a pinch of salt.


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## Rob1985 (Mar 28, 2011)

Scolopeon said:


> Fran is a big angry body builder, take what he says with a pinch of salt.


 I will run instead lol


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## Moltar (Mar 28, 2011)

What I see in that video is a person who is obviously knowledgeable and confident handling tarantulas making what many of us would consider poor judgement decisions. He actually did a lot of things right here (like removing the shirt).

With T's the greatest danger during handling is usually to the spider, not the handler. With hot herps (like say.... sidewinders?) the risk is greater. You could lose a finger, for example. I hope this guy learned a little lesson in exchange for his finger.


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## Fran (Mar 28, 2011)

Scolopeon said:


> Fran is a big angry body builder, take what he says with a pinch of salt.


Holy crap, are you elocuent...
Should we laugh now? When? Or it wasnt suposed to be funny?

---------- Post added at 11:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:24 AM ----------




phoenixxavierre said:


> Spiders and tarantulas have coexisted along mankind for a very long time. Just because they're not on leashes in OUR country, doesn't mean they don't have a relationship with the natives. People have eaten tarantulas for a very long time, and they have eaten dog too. And there are loads and loads of folklore based on native observing spiders/tarantulas. The comparison is in the bite rate. The issue here is people handling hot ts, and the reason it is an issue is due to potential envenomation (the pain and discomfort involved). Dogs don't have venom, dogs are fuzzy and cuddly, dogs have four legs not eight, dogs are much bigger than a tarantula, dogs are sooo different. SO WHAT? The issue here we're talking about is getting bit due to handling. There is absolutely nothing wrong with my comparison. Where did you get your physics degree? cracker jack box? you ought to know that the real deal is in connections, not divisions. Sure, divisions help us to study things more closely, but the real deal is in connections, how everything is connected. If you really knew anything about physics it would show in your posts. You apparently just went through the motions without really thinking about the concepts involved.
> 
> Fran, don't you ever really think before you post comments or do you just see a comment you don't like and rather than giving it thought you attack it outright?? I think perhaps you need to re-read what I wrote. Yes, it IS about exposing oneself to danger. When I was growing up, I knew a woman who was severely mauled by her faithful saint bernards. She had to have them put down. Now i love dogs but the truth of it is that we ALL know what dogs are capable of. For most people, dogs are unnecessary pets. We have them because we want them, not because we need them. And in having them, we are exposing ourselves to the same statistics as everyone else. We live with that chance that something could go terribly wrong. And it's every where we go, not just at home with our dogs or tarantulas, or up on a wind turbine, or crossing the street, it's everywhere. We take much larger risks on a daily basis.
> 
> ...


I see that what I said went right over your head. You didnt even get a word.


----------



## phoenixxavierre (Mar 28, 2011)

Fran said:


> Holy crap, are you elocuent...
> Should we laugh now? When? Or it wasnt suposed to be funny?
> 
> ---------- Post added at 11:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:24 AM ----------
> ...


Fine. Is this what you want?

1) It wasn't an observation. It was an opinion.

2) It's not so much of a comparison as a contrast.

3) Please point out specifically what you consider to be nonsense, since you're sooo serious about it.

4) Of course it has somewhat to do with the size of the damage, after all, if it were the bite of an odorous ant, who would care?

5) Doesn't matter how lovable a pet is or isn't, shoot, I've had plenty of dogs and cats, trained retrievers and labs to hunt duck, bred manx cats for a couple decades, and in all those years of my life have been bitten, scratched up something fierce. Doesn't matter what species you're handling, things can happen. You're creating a negative impression of the tarantula by saying they are soooo different from other life on earth. Physically, they are very different from a dog. If you look at fatalities caused by the animals, yes, they are very different. Dogs are far worse. 75% of bites come from dogs that are well-known and loved, not stray dogs. People "expose themselves to unnecessary risks" by having a dog, but you don't hear people saying: "NOOO!!! Don't touch Fido! He'll tear your arm off!!!! Just leave him in his cage, he likes it in there and he's just for display anyway. Just throw him a bone and fill his water-dish" Most people don't hesitate to rough-house or pet their dogs (handling them). Same with cats. Yet I've received far more "injuries" from dogs and cats than from spiders, bees or bugs put together. So my point is, if you have a family dog, you're taking a MUCH bigger risk than if you were to handle your tarantula. You want to talk about stupid risks of others, as if you don't take any yourself. I know otherwise. I suppose you see steroids as a "calculated risk" outweighed by the "benefit"? 

6) If you expect me to read your comments even when I disagree with them, then you need to read my comments just the same. If you expect me to think about your comments and try to see where you're coming from, then you need to do the same.There's absolutely nothing wrong with the comparison I'm making. People can compare apples and oranges, bananas and pears, and who cares? They're different, but still have similarities. As does everything else in this world. 

I don't have a problem with you calling me stupid. I don't mind admitting I'm stupid. Because the truth is, for every answer there are about 10,000 more questions to be asked and answers to be found. So for my sake, could you please point out which of the following categories you feel I fall into? Thanks!

1. lacking ordinary quickness and keenness of mind; dull.
2. characterized by or proceeding from mental dullness; foolish; senseless: a stupid question.
3. tediously dull, especially due to lack of meaning or sense; inane; pointless: a stupid party.
4. annoying or irritating; troublesome: Turn off that stupid radio.
5. in a state of stupor; stupefied: stupid from fatigue.
6. Slang . excellent; terrific. 

One of my teachers used to call me "turtle" since the other students said I was slow. They thought it was funny until Dr. Wu pointed out that the turtle learns slow but takes the knowledge to heart, something like that. 

So you can call me stupid, full of nonsense, blah blah blah, or you can be a man, and actually communicate something meaningful that others can gain something from. After all, it's not too "beneficial" for you to take the "risk" of showing how little you can comprehend by posting garbage in response to my comments.


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## Rob1985 (Mar 28, 2011)

phoenixxavierre said:


> Fine. Is this what you want?
> 
> 1) It wasn't an observation. It was an opinion.
> 
> ...


 I vote "5. in a state of stupor; stupefied: stupid from fatigue."


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## Scolopeon (Mar 28, 2011)

Fran said:


> Holy crap, are you elocuent...
> Should we laugh now? When? Or it wasnt suposed to be funny?
> 
> ---------- Post added at 11:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:24 AM ----------
> ...


This is what I love about the internet.. the ambiguity, you can't see my facial expression so you will never know!  (Dam I let the cat out of the bag, stupid emotes)

I was joking by the way, I am a body builder myself so no prejudice haha..


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## Mojo Jojo (Mar 28, 2011)

This thread is supposed to be about handling "hot" tarantulas.  Can we keep the discussion to that without being insulting?


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## Pociemon (Mar 28, 2011)

These handling threads allways turns out this way, before you know it, insults are thrown out from both sides. Too bad we cant discuss it in a civil manner. No sides really has the truth about how it stresses a T. Just personal oponoins. 

But what is handling! I use my hands/fingers when transferring 150 p ornata slings when seperating them, is this really handling?  

It will take forever to seperate them with tools.


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## Mojo Jojo (Mar 28, 2011)

There are many old world species that have had systemic symptoms described in many of the bite reports, tkid.  Muscle cramps (heart is a muscle), nausea and possibly fever seem to be pretty common.


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## baboonfan (Mar 28, 2011)

Crazy video. I never handled any of mine and I never will. Why anyone would take such risk is beyond me.


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## King Leonidas (Mar 28, 2011)

Where is the "Nature Boy" when you need him!


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## phoenixxavierre (Mar 28, 2011)

Rob1985 said:


> I vote "5. in a state of stupor; stupefied: stupid from fatigue."


Thank you for your vote! You should get a prize, seeing as that is NOT far from the truth!


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## Fran (Mar 29, 2011)

As I said, it all boils down to the same.
 I have quite more important things in life to do that getting bit by an arachnid or a snake , just because I couldnt resist the once in a life time  thrill- oh need for living - experience of handling it.

Not all of us have the same interest ...as well as clearly not all of us share the same inteligence.

Anyway, let me menction...



phoenixxavierre said:


> 5) Doesn't matter how lovable a pet is or isn't, shoot, I've had plenty of dogs and cats, trained retrievers and labs to hunt duck, bred manx cats for a couple decades, and in all those years of my life have been bitten, scratched up something fierce. Doesn't matter what species you're handling, things can happen. You're creating a negative impression of the tarantula by saying they are soooo different from other life on earth. Physically, they are very different from a dog. If you look at fatalities caused by the animals, yes, they are very different. Dogs are far worse. 75% of bites come from dogs that are well-known and loved, not stray dogs. People "expose themselves to unnecessary risks" by having a dog, but you don't hear people saying: "NOOO!!! Don't touch Fido! He'll tear your arm off!!!! Just leave him in his cage, he likes it in there and he's just for display anyway. Just throw him a bone and fill his water-dish" Most people don't hesitate to rough-house or pet their dogs (handling them). Same with cats. Yet I've received far more "injuries" from dogs and cats than from spiders, bees or bugs put together. So my point is, if you have a family dog, you're taking a MUCH bigger risk than if you were to handle your tarantula. You want to talk about stupid risks of others, as if you don't take any yourself. I know otherwise. I suppose you see steroids as a "calculated risk" outweighed by the "benefit"?
> 
> .


So once more, you are comparing having a dog, a far more inteligent DOMESTICATED FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS animal, with handling an arachnid.

Obviously theres not much I can do to explain you the difference. One only go so far...
So hey, since people go to wars lets all play with guns. Wars are a much greater risk, so nothing wrong with playing John Wayne with a loaded gun.

About the steroid use:

1: You dont know the very first thing about steroids.

2: You are suggesting that I take ilegal drugs. Be careful what you suggest, unless you  want to put your money where your mouth is and  pay for a full blood work /urine.    
    I will gladly take it. Since you wont do anything, save us the crap. And be more creative, the steroid cheap shot is very old news when arguing with me.


3: If you take them just to look "good" it is a quite stupid risk. Being 40  with an inner body of a 90 year old , just for a couple of years of "looking good" it is a very stupid move.
    The steroids are a reasonable risk when you are dedicating your life to a certain sport. Yes, it is a risk that sooner or later an athlete that wants to go to the top of his
     carreer will have to consider. Once again, your examples are absolutely invalid and out of place.


----------



## micheldied (Mar 29, 2011)

Thomas said:


> These handling threads allways turns out this way, before you know it, insults are thrown out from both sides. Too bad we cant discuss it in a civil manner. No sides really has the truth about how it stresses a T. Just personal oponoins.
> 
> But what is handling! I use my hands/fingers when transferring 150 p ornata slings when seperating them, is this really handling?
> 
> It will take forever to seperate them with tools.


This^... Until we actually understand Ts more, every thread about handling will end up like this one.


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## phoenixxavierre (Mar 29, 2011)

Fran said:


> As I said, it all boils down to the same.
> I have quite more important things in life to do that getting bit by an arachnid or a snake , just because I couldnt resist the once in a life time  thrill- oh need for living - experience of handling it.


My you have a manipulative way of speaking. I have never considered being bit by a t or a snake while handling or even handling without being bitten as something "important" in life, and have never seen it as a "once in a life time thrill" "need for living" or any other garbage. 



Fran said:


> Not all of us have the same interest ...as well as clearly not all of us share the same inteligence.
> 
> Anyway, let me menction...
> 
> ...


Yes, and you are repeatedly stating the obvious. 



Fran said:


> Obviously theres not much I can do to explain you the difference. One only go so far...
> So hey, since people go to wars lets all play with guns. Wars are a much greater risk, so nothing wrong with playing John Wayne with a loaded gun.


I have stated the difference quite plainly. Are you not reading my comments?? Comparing a t to an inanimate object such as a gun is even further away than a dog in comparison! Not to mention, that like dogs, guns can kill you, t's can't. Yet people handle those frequently! 



Fran said:


> About the steroid use:
> 
> 1: You dont know the very first thing about steroids.
> 
> ...


Hahaha! What money?? Save "us" the crap? you mean, save "you" the crap?

I know far more than you think I do, about steroids, and about you. 



Fran said:


> 3: If you take them just to look "good" it is a quite stupid risk. Being 40  with an inner body of a 90 year old , just for a couple of years of "looking good" it is a very stupid move.
> The steroids are a reasonable risk when you are dedicating your life to a certain sport. Yes, it is a risk that sooner or later an athlete that wants to go to the top of his
> carreer will have to consider. Once again, your examples are absolutely invalid and out of place.


I have had very close friends into bodybuilding and I have the perfect body for it myself. I do work on my own body, but only for toning and muscle strength for self-defense purposes, not for bulking up. So, you are entitled to your opinion and to your lies and manipulation. Just remember to keep it real when it really matters.

As far as handling hot t's, people are entitled to do so, and people who don't wish to don't have to. And people are welcome to have any thought or opinion that they please. Myself, I handle occasionally, sometimes looking forward to it, other times a little skittish of it, depending upon the species.


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## Aschamne (Mar 29, 2011)

Handling any dangerous animal is something that the individual has to determine if the benefit is greater than the risk.  No matter if you are handling to impress someone, to just get an adrenaline rush, or just to feel a bond with nature.  Yes, there is risk involved.  But lets be realistic, even the worst T bite will not kill you.  So there is a lot worse things that people do for no real reason, other than they enjoy it.

Lets look at skydiving as an example.  I know plenty people that ask the question, why would someone jump out of a perfectly good plane.  Yet, there are other people that they never feel more alive than during the free fall.

I guess what I am saying is don't knock me for what I do and I won't knock you for what you do.

Art


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## dianedfisher (Mar 29, 2011)

I'll just mention this without argument and quietly slink away.  About 2 years ago (the thread is on the ATS forum if you care to search for it) one of the members built a beautiful new habitat for their Poecilotheria metallica and spent all day creating it.  Tired and much later in the day, he moved his beautiful girl into her new home and promptly forgot to properly fasten the front screen to the cage.  You can read the details, but she escaped and got into the crevices of his masonry fireplace.  During his attempt to retrieve her he was tagged.  This resulted in several hours passed out on the tile floor and the ultimate loss of his job due to the physical effects of the bite.  This was an ACCIDENTAL situation.  Risking something like the cost of an emergency room visit, weeks of cramps and debilitating pain so you can impress others voluntarily with your "skills" might be what floats some of your boats and that's your choice, but mentioning that you may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer is mine.
Diane


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## phoenixxavierre (Mar 29, 2011)

dianedfisher said:


> Risking something like the cost of an emergency room visit, weeks of cramps and debilitating pain so you can impress others voluntarily with your "skills" might be what floats some of your boats and that's your choice, but mentioning that you may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer is mine.
> Diane


I am so glad I'm not in this to impress others, nor do I consider handling a spider, tarantula, scorpion, centipede, millipede, etc., etc. to be a "skill". Hopefully you're not a dull knife by thinking that everyone who handles their animals do so only for the reasons you state above!


----------



## kyla 84 (Mar 29, 2011)

I only handle 4 of my T's i will not handle my OBT cuz she's mental and i kinda like living and i don't handle my A. geniculata cuz she's always in a bad mood and i get hairs kicked at me pretty much just for opening the tank.


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## venomous.com (Mar 29, 2011)

Fran said:


> Sorry, but doing something that is potentially dangerous ,and medically detrimental towards your own self, for the heck of it , with no benefict whatsoever for either parts, it is stupidity in my book.


That makes anyone who's ever drank, smoked, or partied stupid. Let alone played with a dog, a big constrictor, etc. Life is meant to be lived, not ran from.

And I don't even handle my T's!


----------



## Fran (Mar 29, 2011)

venomous.com said:


> That makes anyone who's ever drank, smoked, or partied stupid. Let alone played with a dog, a big constrictor, etc. Life is meant to be lived, not ran from.
> 
> And I don't even handle my T's!


Correct. Life is meant to be living...to his max life span,  hahaha. I dont know, I have much better and exciting plans for my life than spending the night on the ER.

Phoenixavierre:

You are the one manipulating here. When did I say that YOU did WHAT?

The only thing im saying is that some of us consider those actions like  very stupid and unnecessary risks. Besides that, if you play soccer with your spiders, I couldnt care less.

And you know me?  hahaha

---------- Post added at 03:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:59 PM ----------




venomous.com said:


> That makes anyone who's ever drank, smoked, or partied stupid. Let alone played with a dog, a big constrictor, etc. Life is meant to be lived, not ran from.
> 
> And I don't even handle my T's!


And sorry but... Maybe here getting drunk is as risky as handling a "hot" animal... I mean :? When I did have some drinks with my friends, we all have a great time as funny and goofy as we could be.  Nobody ever went balistic on someone , or jump into a car to drive home. Its quite a diff culture.

---------- Post added at 03:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:01 PM ----------




phoenixxavierre said:


> Just remember to keep it real when it really matters.


Wait...hahaha to keep what real? Listen, lets do this openly. Since you know me so well, and you know about steroids,lets " keep it real" and bet a few grand. Pay for a reliable  lab work, ill take the tests and we will put the results in the open. Hows that? Lets pm about it.


----------



## LondonLegs (Mar 29, 2011)

I know that I'm relatively new here, and as such have little place in arguments, but I thought I'd throw this out there after seeing the vicious "Thrill or no?" battle among the five other simultaneous fights. 

I handle T's (all t's, if they have a decent record of being docile) because I like the way it feels. I like the funny fuzzy feeling, the light, sticky feet, and the tickle of their walk. My preference when handling is to pick them up and let them do as they please, and not attempt to push or guide them in any certain direction (my g. rosea is a bizzatch, so I'm always thoroughly clothed with him/her). While the initial pickup always seems to weird him/her out a bit, after that s/he seems to enjoy the radiating warmth I put out. Of course, this was before s/he went typical rose psycho and has become unhandleable.

What I was really trying to say is that I don't see where thrillseeking or power really comes in to it. I just happen to find t's cuddlier than an irritating, in-your-face dog. I'm sure very few people here outright disrespect their t's on purpose. Handlers do so because it is enjoyable and the emotional benefits outweigh the bite risk. Don't mistake my use of "emotional" for love and bonding, because my use is merely meaning the emotion of pleasure or fun, or contentment. Non-handlers do so because their feeling is that it would be rude and unsettling to their T's to do so. 

I personally believe that T's don't give two sticks either way, and even after a bad experience will forget about it all after a relatively short period of time.


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## venomous.com (Mar 29, 2011)

Fran said:


> And sorry but... Maybe here getting drunk is as risky as handling a "hot" animal... I mean :?


I guess that's the difference, I've kept real 'hots' where you could lose a limb or possibly your life. I was very careful and respectful of those animals and never came close to getting tagged in over 10 years of keeping. 

T's aren't anywhere near 'hot' status. Envenomation may be painful but it's certainly not going to kill you, and no worries of anaphylaxis either. 

Not much of a risk IMO


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## killy (Mar 29, 2011)

My attitude toward handling my Ts hasn't changed - I love just because it's fun to interact with another living creature that way ... 

I can't say the same for my Ts ... my pulchra was a sweetheart until the last molt and now he's terrified of me, so it's hands off with him ... my GBB was NEVER  a kicker - until the last molt ...  And my vagans, well, handling is a moot point because I don't dare get close enough to him to try ... my pulchripes, by contrast, lets me know when he wants to come out and play, and he climbs right aboard ... GO FIGURE. 

I'm a firm believer in backing off when the tarantula says "NO," but on the other hand, not handling a taranutula when the tarantula is actually amenable to it is, to my thinking, missing out on one of the very special opportunities this hobby has to offer. I know there are those out there that disagree with me (oh BOY do I know it) to which I say, well, I've got a couple of Ts that are in complete agreement with YOU.


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## Fran (Mar 29, 2011)

Im not seeing handling as a capital sin...But I preffer to respect them in their space and let them be  as aclimated and "content" as possible.

The behavior is extremely different in some sp. Mess with a Blondi from time to time, handling or taking her out of her cage, and that T is gonna be  climbing and pacing NON STOP.
 Let her be and she will digg her own burrow, web quite more than expected by  the sp, and behave more in a "wild like" way.


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## arachi american (Mar 30, 2011)

i think it's funny some of you talk like you know me or something...

here's the thing..i dont have to justify any of my actions to any of you.  

my intent was to show that "unhandleable" t's are just not so.    i dont normally take them out just for the heck of it, i was making a video.  still never been bit by any of my t's, from avicularia to stromatopelma and everything in between.


snakes....snakes bite me all the friggin time.  

the only envenomations ive had were an emperor scorpion and a sidewinder.  you can read all about the scorpion in the sting reports (5 intramuscular stings on calf).  it was actually quite severe and might make anyone that's ever been stung or bitten by anything re-evaluate how severe their case was.  pics included.

oh...and if it's a choice between getting bit by a featherleg and tossing it on the ground from 2-3 feet, i dont think theres a question there.  i'm not taking that bite.  also, if i want to cut all my spiders legs off and eat them one by one, i'll do it, and not care what any of you think.  it's MY spider and i could care less if i'm popular in your little online club.


in the video i took the spiders out for the specific purpose of showing handling, that's probably the more interaction than i've had with them since.  i work with snakes all day every day, it's the last thing i wanna do when i get home.  

if you wanna extrapolate what you see in 5 minutes of video to your assumption of a persons entire life that's up to you.


<3  mike

---------- Post added at 09:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:42 PM ----------




Earthworm Soul said:


> Hahaha... that's my friend Mike. He lost a finger to a sidewinder bite recently. I'm sure you're shocked.


long time bud...call me.

---------- Post added at 09:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:45 PM ----------

and whoever said i've bene around for a while and know my stuff, but i'm a complete douche...pretty spot on.  =D


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## kristinnandbenn (Mar 30, 2011)

Just because a tarantula is considered aggressive, or has stronger venom than others doesn't mean that it's going to bite you every time it comes in contact with you. Yes a "hot" tarantula will most likely try to bite at you if you stick your finger in front of its face, but if you let the spider crawl onto your hand and if you don't pose any threats to it, you probably won't get bit. I agree that it isn't wise to hold a "hot" tarantula, but it's not anything insane or incredibly dangerous in my opinion. It's not like you're going to die if you are bitten, if anything it's more dangerous for the tarantula. 


This is a video I found on youtube a while back. I do not agree with the way this individual treats his tarantula.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YSBgETQn18


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## Rob1985 (Mar 30, 2011)

Darwinism at it's finest lol


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## Aschamne (Mar 30, 2011)

Fran said:


> Correct. Life is meant to be living...to his max life span,  hahaha. I dont know, I have much better and exciting plans for my life than spending the night on the ER.


I hate to inform you, but there are things that you do that are more likely to land you in the ER than handling a tarantula.  First off you are a weight lifter and I know plenty of people that have hurt themselves lifting and some of the injuries are severe.  And if I remember correctly, you also like to play sports.  Which again has landed plenty of people in the ER.  Yet, unless someone is a child, elderly or a total wimp a tarantula bite should not incur a visit to the ER.  There have been plenty of people that have been tagged my copperheads here in the US, but I would say that most of those did not even incur a trip to the ER.

Art

---------- Post added at 08:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:10 AM ----------




dianedfisher said:


> I'll just mention this without argument and quietly slink away.  About 2 years ago (the thread is on the ATS forum if you care to search for it) one of the members built a beautiful new habitat for their Poecilotheria metallica and spent all day creating it.  Tired and much later in the day, he moved his beautiful girl into her new home and promptly forgot to properly fasten the front screen to the cage.  You can read the details, but she escaped and got into the crevices of his masonry fireplace.  During his attempt to retrieve her he was tagged.  This resulted in several hours passed out on the tile floor and the ultimate loss of his job due to the physical effects of the bite.  This was an ACCIDENTAL situation.  Risking something like the cost of an emergency room visit, weeks of cramps and debilitating pain so you can impress others voluntarily with your "skills" might be what floats some of your boats and that's your choice, but mentioning that you may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer is mine.
> Diane


I'm sorry, but my bullcrap detector is going off from that story.  My wife did not visit a doctor much less the ER, nor did she miss any work during the following weeks of severe cramp when she was tagged by a Poecilotheria ornata.  Sounds to me like the guy was just wanting attention from the situation, which he did get even if it was not the results he was looking for.

Art


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## TomM (Mar 30, 2011)

Philth said:


> I've always preferred the "pet fish" view on handling spiders.  Pretty to look at , no need to handle.
> 
> Later, Tom


What Tom said.  Maybe it's a name thing but I think he's made the most sense.  The only thing that you can get from handling a tarantula is either a bite or an injured (or dead) tarantula.  Even if you've handled it "properly" and got it back into its enclosure, what does it get from it?  It isn't socialized; it didn't learn your "smell"; why risk being envenomated or dropping your tarantula?  I can understand how one might get a "thrill" from holding it, but I'm sure you get also get a "thrill" playing Russian Roulette.  There's no point, just my opinion.

---------- Post added at 10:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:51 AM ----------




Aschamne said:


> I hate to inform you, but there are things that you do that are more likely to land you in the ER than handling a tarantula.  First off you are a weight lifter and I know plenty of people that have hurt themselves lifting and some of the injuries are severe.  And if I remember correctly, you also like to play sports.  Which again has landed plenty of people in the ER.  Yet, unless someone is a child, elderly or a total wimp a tarantula bite should not incur a visit to the ER.  There have been plenty of people that have been tagged my copperheads here in the US, but I would say that most of those did not even incur a trip to the ER.
> 
> Art


Lifting weights and playing sports gets you in shape and keeps you healthy.  There is no positive side to handling "hot" pets. (Again, just my opinion.)


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## Hatr3d (Mar 30, 2011)

TomM said:


> What Tom said.  Maybe it's a name thing but I think he's made the most sense.  The only thing that you get get from handling a tarantula is either a bite or an injured (or dead) tarantula.  Even if you've handled it "properly" and got it back into its enclosure, what does it get from it?  It isn't socialized; it didn't learn your "smell"; why risk being envenomated or dropping your tarantula?  I can understand how one might get a "thrill" from holding it, but I'm sure you get also get a "thrill" playing Russian Roulette.  There's no point, just my opinion.


+1 

And I'dd add that prolly 80% of the times people handling T's does it just to impress others or even worse to film it and get it on the net.. I pity them if they need to do something like this to boost their self-esteem / e-penis


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## Moltar (Mar 30, 2011)

Well, if there's one thing that's been proven by this thread it's that people do love to talk smack. I find it pretty amusing that everybody jumped on arachni-american's video like he had cooties then he actually _showed up here_ to defend himself.

People, there's no reason to make someone into a pariah because you don't agree with their husbandry practices. Personally, I'll give my opinions when asked but generally speaking, what somebody does with their animals is their own business right up to the point where they are distributing tarantula hybrids or grossly neglecting their animals. Then somebody needs to say something.


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## TomM (Mar 30, 2011)

Hatr3d said:


> I pity them if they need to do something like this to boost their self-esteem / e-penis


+1,000 

I feel like the bigger someone acts online, the smaller they truly are, in size and intellect.  And I can understand why someone might want to interact with their tarantula, but why film and upload it to YouTube it to show off to people that you will probably never meet (or even know what they look like)?  Just seems kinda foolish to me.


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## killy (Mar 30, 2011)

TomM said:


> The only thing that you get get from handling a tarantula is either a bite or an injured (or dead) tarantula.


Wow, that's a rather astonishing statement to make.  The "only" thing that you get?  You know this from personal experience, I'm sure.   

Anyway, I beg to differ.  I've been handling Ts for a couple of years now and none of those things have happened.


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## TomM (Mar 30, 2011)

killy said:


> Anyway, I beg to differ.  I've been handling Ts for a couple of years now and none of those things have happened.


But what did you or the tarantula get from it?  I'm not saying that these things will  definitely happen, but what, other than a bite or injury, can you or the tarantula get from it? That's all I'm saying.



killy said:


> Wow, that's a rather astonishing statement to make.  The "only" thing that you get?  You know this from personal experience, I'm sure.


And that's a rather presumptuous statement.   I've never been bitten by or dropped a tarantula. Know why?  I don't handle them, unless I need to (i.e. - rehousing my _A. hentzi_, when a paintbrush or forceps don't move it, I'll do a pinch grab to carefully move it to the new home, gives pet rocks a good name).


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## killy (Mar 30, 2011)

TomM said:


> But what did you or the tarantula get from it?  I'm not saying that these things will  definitely happen, but what, other than a bite or injury, can you or the tarantula get from it? That's all I'm saying.
> 
> 
> 
> And that's a rather presumptuous statement.   I've never been bitten by or dropped a tarantula. Know why?  I don't handle them, unless I need to (i.e. - rehousing my _A. hentzi_, when a paintbrush or forceps don't move it, I'll do a pinch grab to carefully move it to the new home, gives pet rocks a good name).


I've never been bitten by, or dropped, a tarantula either, but it's not because I don't handle them, it's because I handle them responsibly - there's a right way and a lot of wrong ways to it.  I could make the same argument you're making by stating that I've never been injured on a space shuttle mission. 

But your story's changing a little - so now you _do_ handle them.  But with a "_pinch grab_" ?!?!?

Let's make a distinction here.  When I refer to "handling," I'm talking about instances where the T is allowed onto the back of my hand - it's the T's choice to climb on, and no pinching or grabbing is involved.  By your own admission it's pinching/grabbing that you're doing to your Ts, and I submit that you're risking more harm to the T, or at the very least hyper-stressing him out, than any handling I'm doing. I suggest that you use the "cupping" method when you rehouse.  No danger to the T and no danger to you. 

As to what I get from handling, well I could go on forever about that one, but I'll just say that it's an awesome rush to get up close and personal with a creature like a tarantula - I also believe, from personal observances, that several of my Ts welcome the chance to do a "walkabout" every now and then.  To claim to know what pleasure or benefit they derive from it - now that _would_ be presumptuous.

Let me also give a shout-out to people who share their handling experiences via videotape.  THANK YOU.  I learn a great deal from them.


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## Rob1985 (Mar 30, 2011)

killy said:


> I've never been bitten by, or dropped, a tarantula either, but it's not because I don't handle them, it's because I handle them responsibly - there's a right way and a lot of wrong ways to it.  I could make the same argument you're making by stating that I've never been injured on a space shuttle mission.
> 
> But your story's changing a little - so now you _do_ handle them.  But with a "_pinch grab_" ?!?!?
> 
> ...


comparing a "space shuttle mission" to handling a T made me laugh...

You say it's an awesome rush. I say have fun in the ER. I have been bitten twice and never again will I handle a tarantula, unless absolutely needed!

soo.. I guess could compare handling a "hot T" to when I was kicking in doors, kicking a$$ and taking names in Iraq, but I won't. WHOOO, BOOM!


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## Aschamne (Mar 30, 2011)

TomM said:


> Lifting weights and playing sports gets you in shape and keeps you healthy.  There is no positive side to handling "hot" pets. (Again, just my opinion.)


You are right that lifting weights and playing sports gets you in shape, but there are other much less dangerous ways to get in shape.  Just like there may be other ways to get enjoyment out of life besides handling tarantulas, but people tend to the things that give them the most enjoyment.  

Yes, I will agree that those that handle tarantulas just to show how brave they are should not be doing it.  But, for those of us that enjoy doing it regardless if there is anyone watching or not, leave us alone as we are not hurting you.  

Art


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## TomM (Mar 30, 2011)

killy said:


> But your story's changing a little - so now you _do_ handle them.  But with a "_pinch grab_" ?!?!?
> 
> I suggest that you use the "cupping" method when you rehouse.  No danger to the T and no danger to you.


I have never changed my story.  I have never handled a "hot" tarantula.  If you've actually read my comment I only stated that when I am unable to safely coax my tarantula into the cup*, I will carefully use my fingers to lift my _A. hentzi_ (the absolute opposite of a "hot") and transfer it to it's new contanier during rehousing.  And as everyone knows, it takes a long time for an _A. hentzi_ to outgrow its enclosure, so I have only had to do this 2 times in 2 years.  If you have never heard of a "_pinch grab_" then you haven't watched many handling videos on YouTube that you claim to love so much.  I have nothing against a responsible person, very carefully handling a "safer" (more docile NW species) tarantula from a safe height off the floor.  If you read my first comment, the very last sentence reads: "_There is no positive side to handling "hot" pets. (Again, just my opinion.)_"  I am refer to "hot" pets.  I also never claim that its bad to handle any tarantula, I am just stating that the tarantula gets nothing from the interaction and only harm _can_ happen.

*Refering to your cupping method: This is the exact method that I use.  I completely agree with you that it is best method (at least for me that is).  I do also state: "I don't handle them, unless I need to (i.e. - rehousing my A. hentzi, when a paintbrush or forceps don't move it, I'll do a pinch grab to carefully move it to the new home."  I only use a _careful_, and I mean careful, pinch grab only if the careful prodding from a paintbrush doesn't motivate her to move.

I don't want to offend you or anything, but don't put words in my mouth.  Actually read the comments before quoting them, if you had done this you would also have seen that it is only my opinion, nothing more.


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## ZergFront (Mar 30, 2011)

dannyboypede said:


> And Fran think tebs need Hulk smash!
> 
> --Dan


  You read my mind. Probably thought that after the confusion of seeing obese and body building in the same sentence.

 Whatever floats people's boat. I just wouldn't want to see tarantula bites being put on television. Organizations are just looking for reasons to ban exotics.

---------- Post added at 06:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:55 PM ----------




King Leonidas said:


> Where is the "Nature Boy" when you need him!


 Yeah, where is that crazy SOB anyway? He finally find a lady to stick to?


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## Fran (Mar 30, 2011)

Aaaaaaaay  .....(Macarena)


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## King Leonidas (Mar 30, 2011)

ZergFront said:


> You read my mind. Probably thought that after the confusion of seeing obese and body building in the same sentence.
> 
> Whatever floats people's boat. I just wouldn't want to see tarantula bites being put on television. Organizations are just looking for reasons to ban exotics.
> 
> ...


I never thought I'd see the day when Nature Boy settles down. 
But then again, anything's possible!


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## TomM (Mar 31, 2011)

Aschamne said:


> You are right that lifting weights and playing sports gets you in shape, but there are other much less dangerous ways to get in shape.  Just like there may be other ways to get enjoyment out of life besides handling tarantulas, but people tend to the things that give them the most enjoyment.
> 
> Yes, I will agree that those that handle tarantulas just to show how brave they are should not be doing it.  But, for those of us that enjoy doing it regardless if there is anyone watching or not, leave us alone as we are not hurting you.
> 
> Art


To the first part: I completely agree.  All I'm saying is, if we are using the sports analogy, holding a _G. pulchra _(a typically docile NW for example) would be like batting in baseball with a helmet while handling an _S. cal _ would be more like batting without the helmet.  Both ways you are playing baseball, and hopefully getting enjoyment from it, and there is still a chance of being injured in both situations, but playing without the helmet gives opportunity to more severe injury.  Not saying that it _will_ happen, only that the possibility is there.

To the second part:  I also agree with this.  What you do in the privacy of your own home is your business, and only yours.  It's the people who broadcast their lack of knowledge and "ePenis" over the internet by making handling videos of the more potent and potentially harmful (but obviously not deadly) species, in an unsafe manner.

Let me state this again so "killy" can read this before commenting: 
*This is merely my personal opinion.  If you do not agree, I'm not surprised, you're not me.  You are entitled to your own opinion, but if you want to comment on my opinion, make sure you've actually read what I have written, and not what you think I have written.*

I never thought I'd have to post that disclaimer, but apparently I do.


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## micheldied (Mar 31, 2011)

And what if you do display, in your video, that you are handling a more "potent" species safely(in regards to the T)?


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## TomM (Mar 31, 2011)

micheldied said:


> And what if you do display, in your video, that you are handling a more "potent" species safely(in regards to the T)?


That would be the best option if you "_had_" to hold it.  If the person explains how they are holding it, and why they do it like that, then that would hopefully make more "safe" handling videos.  I'm still not for it (especially "hots"), since the interaction gives nothing back to the tarantula and can still put it it harm's way (if you were to be bitten, not everyone will remain calm, there's still a possibility of a tarantula being flung across the room).  Again, to restate my opinion, it's not "bad" to handle your tarantulas, it just creates more _possibilities_ for disaster or injury. (key word = _possibilities_) That's why I choose not to unless it's needed.


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## micheldied (Mar 31, 2011)

TomM said:


> That would be the best option if you "_had_" to hold it.  If the person explains how they are holding it, and why they do it like that, then that would hopefully make more "safe" handling videos.  I'm still not for it (especially "hots"), since the interaction gives nothing back to the tarantula and can still put it it harm's way (if you were to be bitten, not everyone will remain calm, there's still a possibility of a tarantula being flung across the room).  Again, to restate my opinion, it's not "bad" to handle your tarantulas, it just creates more _possibilities_ for disaster or injury. (key word = _possibilities_) That's why I choose not to unless it's needed.


I wholeheartedly agree, thank you.


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## TomM (Mar 31, 2011)

micheldied said:


> I wholeheartedly agree, thank you.


You're quite welcome, good sir!


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## phoenixxavierre (Mar 31, 2011)

Fran said:


> Phoenixavierre:
> 
> You are the one manipulating here. When did I say that YOU did WHAT?


You are welcome to your opinion. You are suggesting that my handling of t's, and others handling their t's, is dangerous, stupid, etc., etc. There are risks in just about everything in life. Treating people like they're stupid for handling their tarantulas is detrimental to the hobby. Why not just say that YOU would feel stupid if you handled your t and got bit, and that is why youdon't handle? Why resort to saying that people who do so are being risky or stupid?



Fran said:


> The only thing im saying is that some of us consider those actions like  very stupid and unnecessary risks. Besides that, if you play soccer with your spiders, I couldnt care less.


Hmm, playing soccer with my t would seem far more dangerous to the t than would handling it. 



Fran said:


> And you know me?  hahaha


Better than you realize. 



Fran said:


> And sorry but... Maybe here getting drunk is as risky as handling a "hot" animal... I mean :? When I did have some drinks with my friends, we all have a great time as funny and goofy as we could be.  Nobody ever went balistic on someone , or jump into a car to drive home. Its quite a diff culture.


And that is why there are so many alcohol related deaths and injuries?



Fran said:


> Wait...hahaha to keep what real? Listen, lets do this openly. Since you know me so well, and you know about steroids,lets " keep it real" and bet a few grand. Pay for a reliable  lab work, ill take the tests and we will put the results in the open. Hows that? Lets pm about it.


Must be nice to HAVE a few grand to bet. Besides, we both know that there are steroids which take only a few days to get out of one's system. It's comparable to a crack/cocaine/methamphetamine/pill addict saying something similar.

---------- Post added at 11:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:19 AM ----------

Londonlegs and Killy, very well put, you said the things I didn't, but feel the same way.

---------- Post added at 11:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:26 AM ----------




TomM said:


> The only thing that you can get from handling a tarantula is either a bite or an injured (or dead) tarantula.  Even if you've handled it "properly" and got it back into its enclosure, what does it get from it?  It isn't socialized; it didn't learn your "smell"; why risk being envenomated or dropping your tarantula?


Sorry, but this is simply NOT TRUE, and obviously so. 

On top of that tarantulas have been scientifically proven to recognize chemical signatures (the "smell" of an individuals hand has a chemical signature). Not to mention there are theories on the ability of tarantulas to detect sound waves with their hairs, amongst other things.

---------- Post added at 11:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:29 AM ----------




Hatr3d said:


> +1
> 
> And I'dd add that prolly 80% of the times people handling T's does it just to impress others or even worse to film it and get it on the net.. I pity them if they need to do something like this to boost their self-esteem / e-penis


What the heck is this nonsense? Tarantulas are incredible creatures, for the most part docile, and of which we know very little in comparison to what we do know. You are making sweeping generalizations about individuals in the hobby, causing division and shaming and condemning those who choose to handle their tarantulas. Can't you see the harm such an attitude brings to individuals and to the hobby?

I suppose since fish aren't cuddly and fuzzy, and dislike being held, that it is "stupid" to stick your hand in their tank and allow them to nibble at your fingers! Animals of all species are incredible creatures capable of adaptation to their environment, including being handled. Heck, most of the tarantulas we have that are captive bred, from captive bred parents, etc., on back down the line, may even have genetic predispositions toward handling. Who knows?

When one moves the tarantulas container around, one is handling as well. And what about shipping? How cruel is that?? Shipping jars a tarantula around far more than any handling ever would.

I mean, come on, is this about the tarantula? or about the hobbyist? And if both, then why are people getting all bent out of shape about handling what has been handled by humans for thousands of years? These aren't alien creatures that have suddenly appeared on the planet 50 years ago. People have been interacting with tarantulas for literally thousands of years. The study of tarantula behavior prior to the technology and science of our modern age has been emulated into various folklore throughout their range. 

They are small, we are capable of handling them, so why blacklist those who choose to do it? Those who do it know the risk involved, so since when did taking a risk violate the law? That's how it's being made to sound like here, as if these poor tarantulas were being molested! Everyone is, of course, entitled to their opinions. But keep it up on the negativity toward handling and the next thing you know we'll have some ridiculous legislation being written outlawing our "dangerous" and "risky" hobby!


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## Fran (Mar 31, 2011)

phoenixxavierre said:


> Must be nice to HAVE a few grand to bet. Besides, we both know that there are steroids which take only a few days to get out of one's system. It's comparable to a crack/cocaine/methamphetamine/pill addict saying something similar.




Ok now its official. You have NO IDEA whatsoever of what and how anabolic steroids work. 
Next time watch out with certain acusations, specially if you truly dont know anything about it.


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## TomM (Mar 31, 2011)

phoenixxavierre said:


> Sorry, but this is simply NOT TRUE, and obviously so.
> 
> On top of that tarantulas have been scientifically proven to recognize chemical signatures (the "smell" of an individuals hand has a chemical signature). Not to mention there are theories on the ability of tarantulas to detect sound waves with their hairs, amongst other things.


If you wash your hands extremely thorough, with the same kind of soap, every time you hold your tarantula, _then_ you'll have the same chemical signature.  If you are handling other tarantulas, roaches, or even everyday objects like your toothbrush or the t.v. remote, you're chemical signature will not be the same.  I completely agree with you that tarantulas are able to "recognize" your chemical signature with their chemoreceptors, but will your chemical signature be the same every time? No, and _obviously so._

As for the sound waves theory, I have no idea what you are trying to prove.  That sort of came out of left field.

I'm not sure why you think you have to be right about everything.  I can see that you have plenty of free time to pick apart every comment that does not match your own opinion, though, so I wish you the best of luck in your future pessimistic contributions.


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## Chris_Skeleton (Mar 31, 2011)

Wow... How much more ignorant can you get than assuming someone who bodybuilds is automatically on steroids? :wall:


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## TomM (Mar 31, 2011)

Chris_Skeleton said:


> Wow... How much more ignorant can you get than assuming someone who bodybuilds is automatically on steroids? :wall:


Phoenix knows everything, didn't you know? He knows Fran better than Fran knows Fran. 

I just don't see how his personal attacks are contributing to the "handling hot Ts" discussion.  PMing has already been mentioned, but then again, I don't know Phoenix's reading comprehension level.


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## Aschamne (Mar 31, 2011)

TomM said:


> To the first part: I completely agree.  All I'm saying is, if we are using the sports analogy, holding a _G. pulchra _(a typically docile NW for example) would be like batting in baseball with a helmet while handling an _S. cal _ would be more like batting without the helmet.  Both ways you are playing baseball, and hopefully getting enjoyment from it, and there is still a chance of being injured in both situations, but playing without the helmet gives opportunity to more severe injury.  Not saying that it _will_ happen, only that the possibility is there.
> 
> To the second part:  I also agree with this.  What you do in the privacy of your own home is your business, and only yours.  It's the people who broadcast their lack of knowledge and "ePenis" over the internet by making handling videos of the more potent and potentially harmful (but obviously not deadly) species, in an unsafe manner.


Handling a _S. calceatum_ is nowhere near as dangerous as batting without a helmet.  The most you are going to get from a bite from a tarantula is a few week of discomfort.  Getting hit in the head with a baseball can result in death.  A better comparison would be handling a _G. pulchra_ is like low impact aerobics where handling the _S. calceatum_ is like high impact aerobics. 

And, I have already stated that people handling just to show off should  not be doing it.

Art


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## TomM (Mar 31, 2011)

Aschamne said:


> Handling a _S. calceatum_ is nowhere near as dangerous as batting without a helmet.  The most you are going to get from a bite from a tarantula is a few week of discomfort.  Getting hit in the head with a baseball can result in death.  A better comparison would be handling a _G. pulchra_ is like low impact aerobics where handling the _S. calceatum_ is like high impact aerobics.
> 
> And, I have already stated that people handling just to show off should  not be doing it.
> 
> Art


I don't know why we're arguing, I agree with you.  As for the baseball analogy, I'm not comparing the tarantula handling to playing baseball, in respects to danger, I'm using the analogy to say: "holding a 'docile' tarantula is less dangerous than holding a 'hot' tarantula" is similar to "batting with a helmet is less dangerous than batting without one".  While I use both tarantulas and baseball in the analogy, I am only directly comparing tarantulas to tarantulas and baseball to baseball.  Your example analogy is directly comparing tarantulas to baseball.  I'm not sure if I'm explaining it correctly or if I'm just confusing now.  Either way, I do agree with you, Art, my wording might just be off.


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## Lolita (Mar 31, 2011)

Okay i'll probably get flamed but, i do handle my t's i do it very infrequently maybe once a month or so if that and when i do it i do it low to the ground with soft carpet in an area where if they escape they can be caught back very easily (no hide spots) and knowing my reaction to pain (getting bit by a grumpy rescue burmese python without really moving too much) i know i wouldn't fling a tarantula if i got bit i've been doing it this way for over a year and havent gotten bit. Granted thats not to say i wont or anything like that but i havent as of yet and no t's have been harmed. They may or may not get something out of being handled i'm not a tarantula i wouldn't know, but i as a owner do and i always do it as safely as possible for both myself and my tarantula.

For my reason that i like handling/my mom is allergic to arachnid venom i choose to only keep new world species i wouldn't handle a old world species because they intimidate me, as well as the possibility of a reaction since my mothers allergy. Now i understand that people have their handling preferences and that there are cons and pros to each side but the sweeping generalizations on both sides of this argument are a little much, do we really need to bicker and argue and disrespect others for their choices? i would like to imagine that since society thinks arachnid keeping is such a taboo that we'd be at least open minded to others opinions. But maybe i'm naive.

I'd like to do the can't we all just get along thing, but it's kinda obvious thats not gonna happen at this point. So we've all stated our opinions so let the thread die already and quit arguing over something a simple as preference as i believe ther OP was more asking about the handling of "hot" T's and not T's in general, i think this thread has become slightly derailed. As for the anti-handling people, i respect your opinions on the matter and understand them completely, however i am not stupid for handling my T's nor am i a thrill seeker (i'm actually quite the opposite of a adrenaline junkie) nor am i a show off seeing as the only people who have ever actually seen me handle a T happen to live with me and only saw because they happened to enter a room when i was handling which is something i typically do alone in a controlled envoirment.

So hopefully this will bring some peace or at least respect to this thread.


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## TomM (Mar 31, 2011)

Lolita said:


> For my reason that i like handling/my mom is allergic to arachnid venom i choose to only keep new world species i wouldn't handle a old world species


I see what what you are saying with your entire comment, but as you see right in your quote, you state that you don't handle "hots".  Although, the way that you've described how you hold your NW's is definitely the best way to do it if you are going to, but like the thread title states: "hot T's".


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## Lolita (Mar 31, 2011)

TomM said:


> I see what what you are saying with your entire comment, but as you see right in your quote, you state that you don't handle "hots".  The way that you've described how you hold your NW's is definitely the best way to do it if you are going to, but like the thread title states: "hot T's".


yes thats true but it's obviously become much more than a handling hot t's thread now it seems to have become more of a handling t's in general debate at least thats what i've gathered from the last few pages


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## TomM (Mar 31, 2011)

Lolita said:


> yes thats true but it's obviously become much more than a handling hot t's thread now it seems to have become more of a handling t's in general debate at least thats what i've gathered from the last few pages


I agree, but the people who have been posting off-topic responses should stick to the thread subject: "People that handle their hot T's".  There are already a bunch of "handling" threads, this one is supposed to be specifically "hots".  And I'm not directing this at you, it is to all the people posting off-topic.  Your posts are at least about handling, we have others who are insisting that board members are taking steroids (what that has to do with handling, or even tarantulas, is beyond me).


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## Lolita (Mar 31, 2011)

TomM said:


> I agree, but the people who have been posting off-topic responses should stick to the thread subject: "People that handle their hot T's".  There are already a bunch of "handling" threads, this one is supposed to be specifically "hots".  And I'm not directing this at you, it is to all the people posting off-topic.  Your posts are at least about handling, we have others who are insisting that board members are taking steroids (what that has to do with handling, or even tarantulas, is beyond me).


yeah i agree i do think that there are some instances (for educational purposes for instance on temperment and venom) where handling "hot" t's is acceptable or if you have an escapee and you can only get it with your hands at that point but otherwise i think it's an unneeded risk and it's like the old analogy if you play with fire you'll get burned it's the truth most people i know who handle "hotter" t's have gotten bitten at some point and that just goes to show they have their venom for a reason old worlds are feistier than new worlds and it's evident i think if you handle "hot" t's just to handle them then your bound to get bit at some point and it's a little bit of a crazy act at least to me it is because i don't see a point if you wanna handle a T get a new world for handling and use your OW as displays i have tokay geckos for instance a lot of people handle them i don't the few instances where i've had to have resulted in painful bites does that mean i gave them up? nope i just use them a my barking display geckos and i got some cresteds for handling instead theres ways to have your cake and eat it too basically.


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## Moltar (Mar 31, 2011)

Oh my God you guys, will this never end? What are we arguing about, again? Wasn't it whether or not giving your T steroids before you work out will result in aggressive behavior?


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## TomM (Mar 31, 2011)

Moltar said:


> Oh my God you guys, will this never end? What are we arguing about, again? Wasn't it whether or not giving your T steroids before you work out will result in aggressive behavior?


_Defensive_ behaviour! C'mon!


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## Aschamne (Mar 31, 2011)

OK, back onto the topic.  The reason I handle my T's doesn't matter what species is because I enjoy it.  And while there are risk involved, I believe they are pale in comparison to what some others do for their enjoyment.  Just look at all the videos on you tube of people almost killing themselves on skateboards and bikes.  I mean there are other things that I do myself that have more risk than just handling my T's.  

Art


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## Pociemon (Mar 31, 2011)

> You are welcome to your opinion. You are suggesting that my handling of t's, and others handling their t's, is dangerous, stupid, etc., etc. There are risks in just about everything in life. Treating people like they're stupid for handling their tarantulas is detrimental to the hobby. Why not just say that YOU would feel stupid if you handled your t and got bit, and that is why youdon't handle? Why resort to saying that people who do so are being risky or stupid?


Simple reason. Much more easy to tell others that they are stupid


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## Rob1985 (Mar 31, 2011)

Aschamne said:


> OK, back onto the topic.  The reason I handle my T's doesn't matter what species is because I enjoy it.  And while there are risk involved, I believe they are pale in comparison to what some others do for their enjoyment.  Just look at all the videos on you tube of people almost killing themselves on skateboards and bikes.  I mean there are other things that I do myself that have more risk than just handling my T's.
> 
> Art


 so, you're comparing yourself to "backyard stunt men" then?


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## phoenixxavierre (Mar 31, 2011)

Fran said:


> Ok now its official. You have NO IDEA whatsoever of what and how anabolic steroids work.
> Next time watch out with certain acusations, specially if you truly dont know anything about it.


If you've got a few thousand dollars to wager on a urine test, then you have a hundred bucks to buy a cleanser which rids the body of anabolic steroids in as little as 4 days.

---------- Post added at 04:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:41 PM ----------




TomM said:


> I'm not sure why you think you have to be right about everything.  I can see that you have plenty of free time to pick apart every comment that does not match your own opinion, though, so I wish you the best of luck in your future pessimistic contributions.


Dude, you obviously don't know me if you think I that I think that I need to be right about everything. I appreciate truth over all else, but plain truth IS that most of us are wrong about nearly everything. No, me thinks you have a problem with me because I MIGHT be right.

Actually, I'm a very OPTIMISTIC person. Perhaps my posts don't show that side of me to the casual observer, but if you look a bit closer you'll see that what I'm shooting for is the betterment of any particular issue.

Oh, and I have no less or more "time" than anyone else on this forum.

---------- Post added at 04:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:46 PM ----------




TomM said:


> Phoenix knows everything, didn't you know? He knows Fran better than Fran knows Fran.
> 
> I just don't see how his personal attacks are contributing to the "handling hot Ts" discussion.  PMing has already been mentioned, but then again, I don't know Phoenix's reading comprehension level.


Tom, please read my post above. Thank you. No personal attacks here. You must be a very sensitive guy! 

Can you explain to me what "comprehension level" is??

I know what a PM is, private message, right?? Oh, yeah, Fran PMed me and I PMed him back. Is there anything else you would like to know? All you have to do is ask, can you COMPREHEND that? or is that beyond your human capacity to understand? Do you equate assumptions and insults with questions? Is that your malfunction?

---------- Post added at 04:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:51 PM ----------




Chris_Skeleton said:


> Wow... How much more ignorant can you get than assuming someone who bodybuilds is automatically on steroids? :wall:


Well, it's not much different than "assuming" someone who is in prison in America is guilty of a crime. 

Or that someone who handles their tarantulas will eventually be bit.

And to keep this on topic, I have always handled my "hot" t's, though if they are displaying fangs or slapping at me, I let them be. Actually, even if they act like they aren't interested in coming out for a walk-about, I let them be. I've never been bit by a "hot" t despite uncountable handlings. So apparently I am the exception to the "rule"??

I'll provide my most recent example. I'm fattening up a female P. fasciata (black widow equivalent venom) and was merely outside of her tank the other night. Not opening it. Not tapping on anything. Just looking around the front of the cage, and seeing if she had live crickets left or if she was in a non-crabby mood to where I could move the male into the tank. Well, she spotted me. She was handing on the side of the tank on the glass. She turned suddenly and slapped rather hard at me, then bared her fangs, displaying herself in a rather intimidating manner. Well, needless to say, but I'll say it, I decided not to mess with her that night!


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## Lolita (Mar 31, 2011)

phoenixxavierre said:


> Well, it's not much different than "assuming" someone who is in prison in America is guilty of a crime.
> 
> Or that someone who handles their tarantulas will eventually be bit.


well it's actually more of a statistical thing especially with more aggressive species the likelihood of getting bit is high if you handle regularly enough same thing with any animal almost if you handle reptiles chances are a some point you'll get bit it's the same principal to tarantulas


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## Rob1985 (Mar 31, 2011)

phoenixxavierre said:


> If you've got a few thousand dollars to wager on a urine test, then you have a hundred bucks to buy a cleanser which rids the body of anabolic steroids in as little as 4 days.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 04:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:41 PM ----------
> 
> ...


 comparing bodybuilding and steroids to a person in prison being guilty? How did you come up with that association? 

They don't even make logic and reasonable sense to compare. 

It's a given (within a 90%) that a person in prison is guilty of the crime or by association.

It's not nearly that of professional body builders, as they are tested regularly when they join the association. :?


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## Fran (Mar 31, 2011)

phoenixxavierre said:


> If you've got a few thousand dollars to wager on a urine test, then you have a hundred bucks to buy a cleanser which rids the body of anabolic steroids in as little as 4 days.




See, you do have a problem of comprehension. I said full blowN BLOOD WORK AND URINE TESTS.

Once again, you dont know the first thing about anabolic steroids. There are not such substances that will eliminate  the ILEGAL susbtances on a BLOOD WORK  analisis.
One thing is MASKING URIN TESTS,WHICH IS NOT EASY, another is to fool a blood work. If it was a matter of a couple of thousands, do you think ANY PROFESIONAL ATHLETE WOULD BE CAUGHT ON STEROIDS? Yes, that was quite dumb from you.

Im sorry to be off track but you forced me, So Just to educate you in the subject a bit; Anabolic steroids in bodybuilding are used to increase muscle size and shorten recovery among others.

To simplify, In order to have a huge amount of muscle increase you need to increase your levels of testosterone/growth hormone  ETC in your body.
Even if I were taking steroids but I were  not using them right now, if they do  blood work on me and they check my levels, they will see that the levels on my body are faar avobe normal levels. Which would mean that  I am using steroids which ARE ilegal enhancement substances .

So once again, dont talk about what you dont know. Further more, watch out with acusing people (for free) of  BREAKING THE LAW, because some people wouldnt mind to use a couple of grand to escalate the situation, legaly.

PS: See, you are making me get a bit serious with someone like you who doesnt deserve my attention.

 Do you actually know that If I were taking ilegal susbtances right now I wouldnt be a resident in this country, neither a dual citizen? NO YOU DIDNT.

Do you know that thanks to big mouths like yourself,  when my lawyers and myself were doing my resident permit paperwork  in the US,  they required several blood tests because of this same stupid never ending steroid crap?? NO, you dont know it.

So once again, if you are going to acuse somebody of breaking the law, BE READY to deal with the consecuences. If not, do us a favor, and stay on topic.
Stuff like this is more serious than people think, and if you are gonna damage my integrity in public, I will tell you from the get go that I will escalate this.


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## Pociemon (Mar 31, 2011)

phoenixxavierre;

 I do think you have some very good points, and i agree with you big time on many of those. But i have to say that you would get a better understanding of your words in here if you would refrain from personal attacks! Steroids or no steriods, it is 110% irrelevant to what is being discussed here.  I am not trying to be a mod here, just trying to help you out her;-)


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## phoenixxavierre (Mar 31, 2011)

Rob1985 said:


> comparing bodybuilding and steroids to a person in prison being guilty? How did you come up with that association?
> 
> They don't even make logic and reasonable sense to compare.
> 
> ...


Look, just because YOU don't understand a comparison doesn't automatically make it illogical, Mr. Spock.

Guilty by association? You do realize that such a statement is blatantly against the constitution. The government may not lawfully make us guilty by association. Oh, they do it, but they're not supposed to! 

I made that comparison because I personally (and not just me) believe that there are multitudes of people in prison who simply don't belong there. The point being that being bit by a "hot" t merely because you handle it is an assumption/presumption, no different than presuming guilt, or assuming that most body builders use steroids. 

Testing makes no difference anyway. What, do you think anabolic steroids can't be flushed out of one's system? Of course they can, like any other drug.


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## Aschamne (Mar 31, 2011)

Rob1985 said:


> so, you're comparing yourself to "backyard stunt men" then?


No, because the things that "backyard stunt men" do are way more dangerous than handling even the most venomous tarantula.  All I was saying is that there are a lot of things that people do that is more dangerous than handling a tarantula.  How about the people that ride motorcycles rather than drive car.  Even going to a hospital for any reason is more dangerous than handling a tarantula(do you know how many diseases are floating around there).  There is absolutely nothing wrong with handling even the most venomous tarantula as long as your reasoning isn't just to show off.  

Art


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## BigJ999 (Mar 31, 2011)

Aschamne said:


> No, because the things that "backyard stunt men" do are way more dangerous than handling even the most venomous tarantula.  All I was saying is that there are a lot of things that people do that is more dangerous than handling a tarantula.  How about the people that ride motorcycles rather than drive car.  Even going to a hospital for any reason is more dangerous than handling a tarantula(do you know how many diseases are floating around there).  There is absolutely nothing wrong with handling even the most venomous tarantula as long as your reasoning isn't just to show off.
> 
> Art


I wouldn't want to handel the most venomus turantula and I don't see the need to handel my T's.


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## phoenixxavierre (Mar 31, 2011)

Fran said:


> See, you do have a problem of comprehension. I said full blowN BLOOD WORK AND URINE TESTS.
> 
> Once again, you dont know the first thing about anabolic steroids. There are not such substances that will eliminate  the ILEGAL susbtances on a BLOOD WORK  analisis.
> One thing is MASKING URIN TESTS,WHICH IS NOT EASY, another is to fool a blood work. If it was a matter of a couple of thousands, do you think ANY PROFESIONAL ATHLETE WOULD BE CAUGHT ON STEROIDS? Yes, that was quite dumb from you.
> ...


I comprehended the blood work just fine. Blood CAN be cleansed of toxins, such as anabolic steroids, and can be done in anywhere from 1 to 8 days roughly speaking. 

You keep mistakenly thinking that I know nothing about steroids. I use to live with my girlfriend's stepfather who was a professional bodybuilder. He introduced me to it. 

I am entitled to my opinion, whether it be that you use steroids or that you don't, whether you did or didn't. Whether your opinion is that you think I'm risky, irresponsible, stupid, or not. If I were to publicly declare to a cop that my opinion of him was that he was an a-hole, that's not against the law, or if I said it was my opinion that he was on drugs, that's not against the law either. Now if I were to publicly declare to anyone aside from you that you are using steroids, that I know it to be true, and wasn't messing with you in any way, then maybe you'd have a small chance to a claim. Same with me, if you were talking to someone else about me, stating things that weren't true. However, I have spoken only directly to you regarding steroid use. I haven't gone to anyone else and claimed, hey, you know one day me and Fran were hanging out and he pulled out this needle and starting pumping himself full of steroids! I couldn't believe it! No, nothing like that. On top of that, I would have to damage your reputation in some way, or damage you in some way, and would have to do it publicly, not privately, and you and I both know the only reason I made that comment was due to your professional hobby, similar to your comment regarding tarantula handlers being stupid, irresponsible, risky, etc. Besides, a body builder can have LEGITIMATE reasons for taking steroids. I never said you were taking them ILLEGALLY. We have freedom like that in America, freedom of opinion and speech. You won't ever change my opinion by threatening me with legal action or by taking any. You're the first I've seen make such a threat on this forum, let alone towards me. But, maybe I've missed out on some of the exciting stuff! 

And just for a reality check, you are no better than me. Take that to heart. Nor are you better than anyone else on this forum. If you think you are, you have serious mental issues and an obvious chip on your shoulder. We are merely different. 

You are right, Fran. I didn't know those things, probably because you never bothered telling me. And I wouldn't really go throwing rocks in a glass house by using the affectionate word "big mouth". Now that I know what you've told me, I apologize to you. That must have been a stressful time for you. I didn't realize it was a sensitive spot. Then again, some people around here really don't give a crap about other people's sensitive spots. I can't count how many times people on this forum have hit one of mine. I don't point it out though.

Just one thing, do "us" a favor? Who is "us"? Was I talking to anyone other than you? Or just you? How could I possibly damage YOUR integrity? After all, I don't even deserve to be talking to you, right?

My intent was never to hurt your feelings, no more than your intent was to hurt mine. You've said some pretty negative things about people who handle t's. I'm one of those people. You think I won't react? I'm no different than you.

---------- Post added at 06:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:54 PM ----------




Thomas said:


> phoenixxavierre;
> 
> I do think you have some very good points, and i agree with you big time on many of those. But i have to say that you would get a better understanding of your words in here if you would refrain from personal attacks! Steroids or no steriods, it is 110% irrelevant to what is being discussed here.  I am not trying to be a mod here, just trying to help you out her;-)


Thank you. I do appreciate that. I would like to know though who made the first "personal attack" and where and when the personal attack occurred? I don't feel that I WAS making a personal attack. But I suppose some people are sensitive about their use or non-use of steroids.

---------- Post added at 07:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:58 PM ----------

So, anyway, my girlfriend picked up some watercolor paint brushes for me, so hopefully I'll be "handling" my P. fasciata male soon, moving him to the female's enclosure, with the assistance of my new paint brushes!


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## Pociemon (Mar 31, 2011)

> Thank you. I do appreciate that. I would like to know though who made the first "personal attack" and where and when the personal attack occurred? I don't feel that I WAS making a personal attack. But I suppose some people are sensitive about their use or non-use of steroids.


Well, it does not really matter who starts it, if "attacked", just leave it be, it is the "attacker" who end up looking bad then;-)


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## phoenixxavierre (Mar 31, 2011)

Thomas said:


> Well, it does not really matter who starts it, if "attacked", just leave it be, it is the "attacker" who end up looking bad then;-)


Are you asking me to "turn the other cheek"?


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## Rob1985 (Mar 31, 2011)

on another note, I wonder how many have received infractions from this thread? lol


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## Lolita (Mar 31, 2011)

Rob1985 said:


> on another note, I wonder how many have received infractions from this thread? lol


lol good question this turned more from handling hot t's to lets see who can fight more


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## killy (Mar 31, 2011)

LOL - TomM, I notice you've been doing a lot of "editing" today (I laugh because now you're reminding me of ME).  I also saw the "disclaimer" directed at me which, when I went back to quote it for a reply, appears to have, well, _dis_appeared!

Okay, let me clear the air about the "on-topic off-topic" topic, as well as other sub-topics.  I have not handled the "hot" species.  But the day that I was allowed to handle a tarantula for the first time (an adult male G. pulchripes) I said to myself, to quote Will Smith, "I GOTTA GET ME ONE O' THESE!" (Independence Day).  What I had previously perceived as a vicious, deadly, dangerous monster actually turned out to be a sweet-dispositioned, handleable creature, and I was captivated.  It was like an epiphany.  

My subsequent research, prior to getting "one o' those," (2 actually - the pulchripes and a smithi) led me to believe that New World tarantulas were handleable, Old Worlds were not. Since it was the handleability of tarantulas that interested me, I decided to stick to New Worlds - I mean, a tarantula bite is one thing, but just how bad could urticating hairs be anyway?  (I found out with my A. geniculata ...)  Then about a year ago I saw a video of somebody handling an Old World, and it was a revelation to me.  I have NOT graduated to OWs yet, but in my mind, the "myth" about OWs was shattered.  Since then, other posts, photos, and videos (yes, including the pinch/grab method) solidified my feeling that OWs, under the proper circumstances, certainly COULD be handled.  I regard the daring folk that handle OWs with the same sort of awe I reserve for people who do things like climb the face of El Capitan bare-handed, or wrestle alligators (or fly space shuttles). 

That's why I reacted the way I did at your statement about ... well, you know.  I just sort of bristle whenever the subject comes up, and my knee-jerk reaction was in defense of "hot T" handlers, even though I'm not one myself.  I should know better than to get involved in a subject that is so polarizing.  It's one of the things I still have to learn about this hobby ...   

I have a friend who runs her own (successful) business - the motto on her business card reads "Never fear going out on a limb - that's where the fruit is" ... that's kind of the way I feel about handling tarantulas.  I don't know if I can put into words what I "get" out of it, but I can say going out on that limb produces some pretty tasty fruit!  Maybe I speak for those daring enough to brave the "hot" species, I don't know.  That's all I was trying to say - as usual, I should have approached it more delicately, and a little more clearly (I really was "on-topic," it just didn't come across that way). 

I release you all with love and blessings - gotta go -I don't want to be late for my "hot" "hands-on" date with my Chaco!


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## Rob1985 (Mar 31, 2011)

killy said:


> LOL - TomM, I notice you've been doing a lot of "editing" today (I laugh because now you're reminding me of ME).  I also saw the "disclaimer" directed at me which, when I went back to quote it for a reply, appears to have, well, _dis_appeared!
> 
> Okay, let me clear the air about the "on-topic off-topic" topic, as well as other sub-topics.  I have not handled the "hot" species.  But the day that I was allowed to handle a tarantula for the first time (an adult male G. pulchripes) I said to myself, to quote Will Smith, "I GOTTA GET ME ONE O' THESE!" (Independence Day).  What I had previously perceived as a vicious, deadly, dangerous monster actually turned out to be a sweet-dispositioned, handleable creature, and I was captivated.  It was like an epiphany.
> 
> ...


 it's a G.pulchripes ;P


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## Kreatz (Mar 31, 2011)

after back reading.. can somebody point me to the right direction on how to go back to the "People that handle their hot  T's" thread? 

Haters gonna hate


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## Aschamne (Apr 2, 2011)

BigJ999 said:


> I wouldn't want to handel the most venomus turantula and I don't see the need to handel my T's.


And I won't knock you for not handling yours, if you don't knock me for handling mine.

Art


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## zonbonzovi (Apr 2, 2011)

Hot T's should be handled with care so you don't burn your mouth:

[YOUTUBE]jcFF-PDN258[/YOUTUBE]


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## Hudson Ensz (Apr 2, 2011)

Just to throw my two cents in, If i didnt handle tarantulas it would be worthless to even look for them. Tarantulas love to live in spiny pineapple plants, try using a net in there! I have had tarantulas (mostly avics) for about 3-4 years and have never been bitten by one. I handle ALL of the tarantulas I have ever caught.


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## Mojo Jojo (Apr 2, 2011)

Aschamne said:


> And I won't knock you for not handling yours, if you don't knock me for handling mine.
> 
> Art


I wish I had mod privileges.  I'd declare Aschamne the winner and then close this thread.


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## Tindalos (Apr 2, 2011)

I use to handle all my T's like crazy including my poki's,obts and even lividum. But I stopped simply because every time I wanted to handle the T, I had to create a safe environment, get a stick and either poke the spider until it came out or destroy the enclosure to get to the tarantula. 

In the end its not worth it. I'm not against handling, but if your going to do it be smart about it. 







When that T ran on my head, it really sucked. i was safe and so was the T but I wont repeat that experience.


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## Arachnoholic420 (Apr 6, 2011)

What??? Who??? Where???? Really? ;P

I won't advice anyone to follow suit!!! Handling is not for everyone!!! You need to understand what your getting into when handling anything period!  T's temperaments are readable most of the time, or predictable!!! But not all the time!!!  So before you even think about handling! You should know how your T's react!!!  Some hots would tolerate interaction to a certain degree!!! but not always!!!!! So  to each their own!!!!  

But for me i enjoy handling my T's!!! As often as I dont  handle them!!!!

Peace!!!!


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## cacoseraph (Apr 6, 2011)

dannyboypede said:


> I sincerely hope the *bold* statement is not the death of this thread, however I think it may be.
> 
> If tarantulas save their venom for prey, why is it that the _majority_ of bite reports include "I saw clear liquid come out of one (or both) of the holes," (or some other variation including the sight of clear liquid) and the victim experiences symptoms of a "wet" bite? These same bite reports also clearly state that the tarantula was acting defensively.
> 
> --Dan


that fluid isn't nec. venom.  getting holes torn in you can liberate some juice.



Aschamne said:


> I hate to inform you, but there are things that you do that are more likely to land you in the ER than handling a tarantula.  First off you are a weight lifter and I know plenty of people that have hurt themselves lifting and some of the injuries are severe.  And if I remember correctly, you also like to play sports.  Which again has landed plenty of people in the ER.  Yet, unless someone is a child, elderly or a total wimp a tarantula bite should not incur a visit to the ER.  There have been plenty of people that have been tagged my copperheads here in the US, but I would say that most of those did not even incur a trip to the ER.
> 
> Art
> 
> ...



fully.  i do think defective ppl could get sidelined from a bad poeci bite but that story, as told, smells like cowhole to me













i free handle all my tarantulas because i like to play with them and be comfortable around them.  tarantulas aren't domesticated or whatever, but if you got half a brain they are not too hard to work with.   i don't plan on going to the hospital unless i need to for any bites.  but then i am big and tough and likely can tell any really nasty symptoms before they kill me =P

i think i have an advantage when it comes to pairing and any escape attempts cuz i mean, it's all just playing with bugs to me.   plus, i am less likely to get adrenalin feedback loops or something like that while i am doing demonstrations at educational events


[YOUTUBE]rgENx-sHDzE[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]YbuiUaah_hA[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]0uJxTz_U28E[/YOUTUBE]


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## DamoK21 (Apr 6, 2011)

*3 things*

1. If fran is indeed taking steroids by your recognition, does it matter, and if so what does it have to do with T's ? (No disrespect fran, its clear he is just nit picking at you fella)

2. I was under the impression that a "Hot" species is not a poeci, or such, but a red back as such and any other with the potential to kill. To me a red back IS a HOT species, along with the funnel webs and so forth

3. If you seriously are going to sit there and say no never, you lie 

What about bleeds and so on, do we not pick up our ill/bleeding T's ?

What about when they freak and run directly at you, and yep they land straight on your lap, what then ?

iv handled the so called "Hot" species, with out any issues, yet one day i put water in the water bowl of my P.formosa, and she bites me, hung on for what seemed forever, didnt fling her, she is doing amazing infact a happy mother of 2 egg sacks (in total) yes it hurt, but what would be (in that instant) more the likely problem, me disturbing her on her patch, her turf, or her on my arm after running at me trying to escape, in a weird place and not knowing were she is. Hmmm id rather the 2nd option. The bite hurt alot ;P

all in all, if your T is bleeding from a leg, and you cant see without picking him/her up, then your going to pick him/her up, simple as that. I mean how many here have perfected the art of "pinch grabbing/restraint grab" and holding a poeci like this has its problems, such as squirming and fighting you of...

in many situations, this thread can be put to shame, all because somtimes youll simply have the spider on you "Accidently" and youll take a picture. Simple as that, but im not saying others will not do it to show off, because it will happen, but all in all, a bite for those who show off is exactly what they need.


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## cacoseraph (Apr 6, 2011)

DamoK21 said:


> What about when they freak and run directly at you, and yep they land straight on your lap, what then ?


i was doing a handling demo at an educational event and had a ~7-8"DLS MM T. blondi run up my chest and onto my face/head.   i have a VERY vivid memory of seeing it running full speed right towards my face.   my lips and eyelids got haired. luckily i am not too reactive to Theraphosa hair yet... =P


oh. nothing happened to the spider.  i basically stayed calm and someone helped me put it back in the container.  the ppl watching thought it was funny as heck, cuz i explained right before that it probably wasn't a great time to hold it but i would try anyways for the people.


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## DamoK21 (Apr 6, 2011)

cacoseraph said:


> i was doing a handling demo at an educational event and had a ~7-8"DLS MM T. blondi run up my chest and onto my face/head.   i have a VERY vivid memory of seeing it running full speed right towards my face.   my lips and eyelids got haired. luckily i am not too reactive to Theraphosa hair yet... =P
> 
> 
> oh. nothing happened to the spider.  i basically stayed calm and someone helped me put it back in the container.  the ppl watching thought it was funny as heck, cuz i explained right before that it probably wasn't a great time to hold it but i would try anyways for the people.




 gota love the T.blondi's, you need to be careful mate, you got away with a lucky escape there fella, any of those bad boy hairs got in the eyes, i think id have cried for you ;P haha the word there being "yet"  give him a few more flicks, im sure youll have some sleepless nights like me, scratching your bloody arm off 

that there i respect you 110% for that, i could name a few that would have threw the spider accross the room in fear of being bit. Good on you fella :clap:


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## cacoseraph (Apr 6, 2011)

thanks 

i have well developed eye protection reflexes =P  i shut my eyes as soon as i could... but bugs operate on a different quickness level than humans


you can anticipate and therefore mitigate a strike, but i think no stock human is quick enough to react to them and avoid them




also, one time i rubbed local Aphonopelma urts into my eye to see what would happen.  it felt like that eye was sleepy, that was all =P   i was about 95% sure nothing would happen




george carlin said something great. it was to the effect of only losers die with their bodies intact =P


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## Raven9464 (Apr 7, 2011)

My OBT ran up onto my hand when I was transfering her to a new home. She was really calm, so I took advantage of a situation and took some pics =)  But I would never set out to try to handle her....There are much more docile Ts in my collection for that =)


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## Tym Hollerup (Apr 8, 2011)

Personally I don't recommend handling WHATSOEVER! I have never once handled a T. Nor do I plan too either.


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