# African 'black' trapdoor spider



## lhystrix (Jan 14, 2008)

Another African trapdoor spider commonly encountered in the pet trade.
An Idiopid, Idiopinae, appears to be a Ctenolophus sp.

Here are some differences to look for between adult females and immature males. The male pictured below is a subadult. 

Other differences to look for in subadult males include longer, more slender legs 3, and a slight but noticeable swelling of the palpal tarsi. These traits also apply to subadult male African red trapdoor spiders. 

Male followed by female.


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## Widowman10 (Jan 14, 2008)

can you EF sex trapdoors like you can theraphosids? they looked a bit different.


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## Bastian Drolshagen (Jan 15, 2008)

hi Jeff,
once I got a moult of a specimen looking similar to yours - the key brought me to Idiops sp. 
May I sk why you think this is Ctenolophus sp.? I second your opinion about the red TDS being Ctenolophus sp. (wrote that somewhere here quite a time ago), but I´m not sure about this one.
I´m going to check the moult I have again.


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## lhystrix (Jan 15, 2008)

widowman, by 'they' do you mean the genital openings?
If so, they are indeed different, and it is reliable for sexing the African red and African black trapdoor spider.



Improver said:


> hi Jeff,
> once I got a moult of a specimen looking similar to yours - the key brought me to Idiops sp.
> May I sk why you think this is Ctenolophus sp.? I second your opinion about the red TDS being Ctenolophus sp. (wrote that somewhere here quite a time ago), but I´m not sure about this one.
> I´m going to check the moult I have again.


Well, I'm basing it on the two pairs of sigilla, cuspules on labium and endites, and one row of large teeth. I just wish I had information on East African  genera.


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## Widowman10 (Jan 15, 2008)

jeff h said:


> widowman, by 'they' do you mean the genital openings?
> If so, they are indeed different, and it is reliable for sexing the African red and African black trapdoor spider.


haha, ok, can you point me to a link or explain it real quick the diff between males and females?


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## lhystrix (Jan 15, 2008)

Widowman10 said:


> haha, ok, can you point me to a link or explain it real quick the diff between males and females?


I wasn't trying to be funny. For some reason i wasn't sure what you meant. 

These images should help clarify.

The differences in the genital areas are effective for distinguishing immature males from females.


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## Widowman10 (Jan 15, 2008)

jeff h said:


> I wasn't trying to be funny. For some reason i wasn't sure what you meant.


eh, i just start off a lot of responses or questions with "haha,". just a weird habit i guess. maybe it's nervous laughter i dunno, don't try to understand, just a weird habit  



jeff h said:


> These images should help clarify.
> 
> The differences in the genital areas are effective for distinguishing immature males from females.


ok, (that's another thing i start off posts with too :8o ) i see the difference, a little, with the male it looks like a lack of hairs, with the female it looks like the same thing, just a different color, almost like an orange-ish color :?


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## lhystrix (Jan 16, 2008)

Widowman10 said:


> ok, (that's another thing i start off posts with too :8o ) i see the difference, a little, with the male it looks like a lack of hairs, with the female it looks like the same thing, just a different color, almost like an orange-ish color :?


Yes. With males there is a more flush appearance, while the females have more of a 'lip'. See also comparisons of the African red. Much more obvious.
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=107942


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## Widowman10 (Jan 17, 2008)

jeff h said:


> Yes. With males there is a more flush appearance, while the females have more of a 'lip'. See also comparisons of the African red. Much more obvious.
> http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=107942


woo-hoo! ok, i see the diff now! thanks for the good pics! :clap:


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## lhystrix (Apr 26, 2008)

An adult male African black trapdoor spider, Ctenolophus sp.


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## What (Apr 27, 2008)

*MM black trap*

Glad to see a MM around!

If/when you are done can I borrow him?


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## lhystrix (Apr 27, 2008)

What said:


> Glad to see a MM around!
> 
> If/when you are done can I borrow him?


If he survives...

So far my luck with Ctenolophus males has been next to none: one adult managed to kill itself, two died prior to molt, and another adult was eaten. 
I have one subadult red left, and no idea if my most recent adult male red was successful before the last supper.

Now the update on this guy:
The first image the male was opening the door and tapping his abdomen and palps.
The second image the female was webbing the door shortly after denying the male.

The third image is the male's leg 1 on top of the door after introducing him to a different female.
Hopefully he lost it while copulating, but with my luck there was no copulation and the fat pig tried to eat him. So I gave him his own burrow for now to eat and recover. What's going to happen next...?


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## lhystrix (Jul 1, 2008)

Improver said:


> hi Jeff,
> once I got a moult of a specimen looking similar to yours - the key brought me to Idiops sp.
> May I sk why you think this is Ctenolophus sp.? I second your opinion about the red TDS being Ctenolophus sp. (wrote that somewhere here quite a time ago), but I´m not sure about this one.
> I´m going to check the moult I have again.


Looking back through this thread last night, I'm glad you had your doubts. 
The specimens in original post here (deleted for upcoming images in a black Ctenolophus/Idiops comparison) were indeed Idiops, as are the genital opening images above. I had Idiops mixed with Ctenolophus at the time without realizing it, even though they are obviously different.:? 

The adult male and female above and female below are black Ctenolophus, however.

One of the females from a breeding attempt. Hopefully she is full of fertile eggs and not just fat with a yellow venter.


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## lhystrix (Jul 1, 2008)

*Idiops, another African 'black' trapdoor spider*

Here are some images of female Ctenolophus and Idiops adults, two African 'black' species available in the US.

A Ctenolophus and a recently molted Idiops and it's skin.

The Idiops species most commonly sold in the US are more 'squat' and 'bulky', with noticeably larger carapaces and chelicerae, and thicker legs when compared to the black Ctenolophus with an equivalent legspan. Idiops also have two rows of teeth on the cheliceral furrow, as opposed to one well developed outer row in Ctenolophus. Idiops is also more brown, while Ctenolophus is more 'black'.

The blotched areas on the carapace are blacked out glare.


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## lhystrix (Nov 28, 2008)

As usual no luck yet with breeding the black Ctenolophus, or the red.

A nice looking female Idiops.


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## J.huff23 (Nov 29, 2008)

These are very interesting looking spiders.


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## Widowman10 (Nov 30, 2008)

jeff h said:


> As usual no luck yet with breeding the black Ctenolophus


is this just because of the species? or is there a lack of males? i've read of some of your mishaps earlier in the thread, but can you explain a little? what makes breeding these guys difficult?


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## lhystrix (Dec 1, 2008)

The problem is I don't really have any good information on their natural history. What I do have deals with Southern African species, and these and the other Africans trapdoors in the trade are primarily Tanzanian.

Ctenolophus are very temperamental, and not as easy to deal with when compared to Cyphonisia, Damarchus, etc. The males are really only active during the late night early morning hours, and I'm usually sleeping. All I can do is place them with the females at night and hope something good happens, which hasn't been the case yet.

My current male red has sealed himself in a sac several inches from the most recently molted female door for over a week now. I'm hoping when he comes out it is because he's ready to mate. As common as the red Ctenolophus are, it seems like they should be a breeze to breed.

My black Ctenolophus male was eventually eaten, and none of the females he was with have produced any egg sacs. The yellow venter seems to be nothing more than coloration.

About 1:40 reds are immature red Ctenolophus males from what I have found. Even less with the black Ctenelophus; the females are uncommon, too.
I have yet to see an adult male Idiops, and a mis-labeled or IDed picture I have is actually a Stasimopus (with a horn!). Hopefully the immature Idiops I believe are males will molt soon.


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## Widowman10 (Dec 1, 2008)

cool! thanks for all the good info jeff.


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## cjm1991 (Dec 6, 2008)

I make sure to always check out all your threads, they actually still interest me. Great pics, those are amazing.:clap:


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## lhystrix (Dec 7, 2008)

Thanks...!


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## TrexxArms (Feb 5, 2013)

These don't really seem like a spider that would like to be handled too well. Any techniques you recommend? My tarantulas were always good, but I've read that Trapdoors aren't good for it. I have a red trapdoor now, and I'll be getting an African black tomorrow.


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## Ambly (Feb 5, 2013)

How are you getting these photographs?  Are you unearthing the spiders often?  Either way, good to see someone documenting their experience with breeding trapdoor spiders.  Have you ever considered trying to house a few in a larger enclosure, allowing the male to mature and wander without being physically moved and introduced to another specimen?  Great photos and great info


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## Ciphor (Feb 5, 2013)

Ambly said:


> How are you getting these photographs?  Are you unearthing the spiders often?  Either way, good to see someone documenting their experience with breeding trapdoor spiders.  Have you ever considered trying to house a few in a larger enclosure, allowing the male to mature and wander without being physically moved and introduced to another specimen?  Great photos and great info


You guys and your replying to 5 year old threads... lol.

Texx, defensive trapdoor spiders should not be handled. If you have African trapdoor spiders, chances are they are overly defensive, and you should avoid trying to handle.


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