# Too many babies?



## sycjoco (Jul 25, 2007)

If your scorpion has babies how can you get rid of them all. Besides keeping a couple... Can you sell them real cheap to stores? or would it be better to kill some off real young


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## Brian S (Jul 25, 2007)

You could give us some more info like which species, how many etc etc (hint hint)


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## sycjoco (Jul 25, 2007)

probally emperor scorpions... Can you cross breed species? because aren't red claws and emperors both from panidus ??? I like my emperor, but it would be cooler if he were more active by himself and also in the hunt. He doesn't go after his meal... He just waits in the hide until it happens to go in and then he pinches them. 

Should i think of also getting a red claw?
I bought this emperor for around 15 with tax, and this other store i know has them for 6.99 but was out of stock ... and there red claws are around 13. Could i keep them together too? or if i buy more emperors would they be alright in the same tank?


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## tabor (Jul 25, 2007)

Based on your limited posting career here I think it would be best if you stayed away from breeding scorps for a while bud  

And for the love of christ do not crossbreed species of the same genus on purpose. Learn more about the basic care and behavioral habits of the scorpions you already own before you start contemplating the ramifications of such advanced hypothetical situations.

edit: to answer your question though probably the most humane way of killing of excess stock would be in the freezer. But why not plan ahead and avoid such a situation ever occuring?


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## sycjoco (Jul 25, 2007)

So your saying it is possible to cross breed? well i would care for most of them and try to find them homes, but 20 is quite a bit.


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## tabor (Jul 25, 2007)

sycjoco said:


> So your saying it is possible to cross breed? well i would care for most of them and try to find them homes, but 20 is quite a bit.


:wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall:


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## sycjoco (Jul 25, 2007)

come on just give me a clear answer.. If it is possible, but not reccomended because they would most likely kill eachother i won't do it. but if not i would like to try.


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## tabor (Jul 25, 2007)

What. The. Christ.  

Is english not your first language or something? If so I'll cut you some slack. But dang man, you seem pretty dense. 

Crossbreeding within a genus is technically possible, but probably unethical for a whole host of reasons. So far you've exhibited nothing but incompetence in your posting here. For a clear answer: DO NOT CROSSBREED SPECIES. DO NOT BREED ANYTHING. LEARN TO CARE FOR YOUR SCORPIONS FIRST.


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## Bayushi (Jul 25, 2007)

And on the off chance you do end up with a bunch of baby scorpions, don't kill them. Place an add on the forums so people who want them can have the chance to have them.


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## sycjoco (Jul 25, 2007)

HAHAHAHHAHAHAhahaha yeah i dont type to properly, whatchu gonna do about it <edit>? okay i am off to create a unholy demon spawn of a scorpion. Peace <edit>


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## robbie (Jul 25, 2007)

well i think what you want to know is if it is okay to cross breed....  well the answer is NO  you should never try to cross breed any species of any animals. they were all made a certain way by GOD, and if you don't believe in GOD then evolution.  either way these animals are a certain way for a reason.  I would say it is just not a good idea..   Not trying to preach just my opinion.


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## sycjoco (Jul 25, 2007)

Well there are in the same genus... For example dogs make mutts... Whats the difference? If they will react aggressively that is another story, but if only to retain a pure breed...


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## quiz (Jul 25, 2007)

i'm not sure if you can cross-breed them but if you are curious then put them together, don't cry when you lose a specimen.


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## Bayushi (Jul 25, 2007)

The reason you don't crossbreed species with in the same genus is if, on the odd chance,  you have a brood and sell them you aren't screwing up someone else's breeding projects.


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## Brian S (Jul 25, 2007)

Dogs are all the same species. Thats totally different from x-breeding 2 different species of scorps. I doubt they would breed successfully anyway.


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## sycjoco (Jul 25, 2007)

Bayushi said:


> The reason you don't crossbreed species with in the same genus is if, on the odd chance,  you have a brood and sell them you aren't screwing up someone else's breeding projects.


Oh i see. That thought couldn't have only been by me though...


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## tabor (Jul 26, 2007)

sycjoco said:


> HAHAHAHHAHAHAhahaha yeah i dont type to properly, whatchu gonna do about it <edit>? okay i am off to create a unholy demon spawn of a scorpion. Peace <edit>


ok well im off to properly care for my species and not try to create some sort of "hybrid" super species of scorpion to meet my personal expectations of what a scorpion should be.



sycjoco said:


> Well there are in the same genus... For example dogs make mutts... Whats the difference? If they will react aggressively that is another story, but if only to retain a pure breed...


theres a huge difference between the selective breeding of dogs to produce desired traits over time (ie the creation of a working dog like the daschund or something), and what youre talking about. No one here is going to support your attempts at crossbreeding. The entire point of captive breeding is to PRESERVE these creatures that have remained relatively unchanged for hundreds of millions of years... not to create so called "mutts" for no good reason.


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## tabor (Jul 26, 2007)

Brian S said:


> Dogs are all the same species. Thats totally different from x-breeding 2 different species of scorps. I doubt they would breed successfully anyway.


Im pretty sure there has been some unintentional cross breeding of heterometrus species in captivity already. That's the only explanation I can come up with for this unidentifiable GIGANTIC (swamerdami sized) pair of heteros I've got my hands on. That or its an undescribed species. I ofcourse am hoping it's the latter!


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## sycjoco (Jul 26, 2007)

tabor said:


> ok well im off to properly care for my species and not try to create some sort of "hybrid" super species of scorpion to meet my personal expectations of what a scorpion should be.
> 
> 
> 
> theres a huge difference between the selective breeding of dogs to produce desired traits over time (ie the creation of a working dog like the daschund or something), and what youre talking about. No one here is going to support your attempts at crossbreeding. The entire point of captive breeding is to PRESERVE these creatures that have remained relatively unchanged for hundreds of millions of years... not to create so called "mutts" for no good reason.


Well I am off to cure cancer, while you fight for how things have been for millions of years.

Edit: also create a variety of hybrid scorpions. And no begging will not get me to give you any.


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## Brian S (Jul 26, 2007)

tabor said:


> Im pretty sure there has been some unintentional cross breeding of heterometrus species in captivity already. That's the only explanation I can come up with for this unidentifiable GIGANTIC (swamerdami sized) pair of heteros I've got my hands on. That or its an undescribed species. I ofcourse am hoping it's the latter!


I am willing to bet you have the same thing as me.....WC H longimanus from Malaysia. I doubt these would be x-bred


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## tabor (Jul 26, 2007)

Brian S said:


> I am willing to bet you have the same thing as me.....WC H longimanus from Malaysia. I doubt these would be x-bred


I'll send you pics over email or PM as i prefer not to post them here and get a million opinions on what they are. But believe me they are most certainly none of the common species seen in captivity. 

Parts of them say spinifer, parts of them say petersii, parts of them say longimanus. But they have been examined by several self proclaimed heterometrus experts, including some from asia, and none can reach any sort of conclusion on what the heck these are. 

Have you had any success breeding yours? I just recently acquired this pair as well as 40 or so of their offspring. :clap:


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## Brian S (Jul 26, 2007)

Where did you get yours? There are a bunch of these Malaysian imports floating around now.
I do have a male and female together but no kids yet. I have only had them since February if memory serves me right


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## tabor (Jul 26, 2007)

Brian S said:


> Where did you get yours? There are a bunch of these Malaysian imports floating around now.
> I do have a male and female together but no kids yet. I have only had them since February if memory serves me right


Sent you a PM with the details. It will be interesting to compare specimens. If this is indeed some sort of new species, it will liekly be highly desirable. :razz:


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## Australis (Jul 26, 2007)

Hmmmr...sounds familiar
Tabor...care to PM me some pics
I wanna see if its the same as mine...

 
Lets just sa they are kinda local


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## JLDomestics (Jul 26, 2007)

What's wrong with cross-breeding? 99.9% of the time the resulting hybrids are sterile anyways so no harm can be done! Has anyone ever heard of a mule, beefalo, a fantasy horned frog, a liger or a blood parrot cichlid?


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## BadBikaDamo (Jul 26, 2007)

Cross breeding species useually results in retarded unhealthy animals. Scientists do it to prove they can (egomaniacs). There are over 2000 amazing differnet scorpions out there to choose from. If you want some sort of super beast, go back to playing warhammer. Better still, might I recommend you take a trip to the Congo and find the true beast, the Pandinus Dictator.


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## hadrurus 666 (Jul 26, 2007)

Cross breeding is wrong, scorpions evolved in different shapes and sizes to cope with anything thrown at them, this means that they are the "best" they can get at the moment, until evolution changes them again.


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## Aztek (Jul 26, 2007)

Ligers, wolphins, camels/lamas, all hybrids.


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## Brian S (Jul 26, 2007)

JLDomestics said:


> What's wrong with cross-breeding? 99.9% of the time the resulting hybrids are sterile anyways so no harm can be done! Has anyone ever heard of a mule, beefalo, a fantasy horned frog, a liger or a blood parrot cichlid?


Because if they are not sterile and some irresponsible person sells them to someone like me that does NOT want hybrids in the gene pool then I am screwed. That alone should be a good enough reason.
I am quite familiar with the other animals you are speaking of. I just dont want this in my personal scorpion collection.


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## Brian S (Jul 26, 2007)

tabor said:


> Sent you a PM with the details. It will be interesting to compare specimens. If this is indeed some sort of new species, it will liekly be highly desirable. :razz:


The pics look just like what I have and they were IDed as H longimanus


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## EAD063 (Jul 26, 2007)

JLDomestics said:


> What's wrong with cross-breeding? 99.9% of the time the resulting hybrids are sterile anyways so no harm can be done! Has anyone ever heard of a mule, beefalo, a fantasy horned frog, a liger or a ?


None of those are anthropods.  Plus, we are trying to support the hobby, not deplete pure populations. Theres no reason to cross breed anything when we have mates for all the differnt kinds of species around, all that would be done is a loss of productive oppurtunities to breed correctly. 

And also, about the "No harm done" comment. There are documented cases where hybridization has contributed to the extinction of species.  Currently, the mallard duck, introduced to hawaii for hunting purposes, has been extensively cross breeding in the wild with the hawaii duck, an endangered species.... I'm sure the ones who were part of the introduction effort said the same thing, and it's quite evident they were wrong.

It's very unfortunate that people aren't respectful of nature. Locally I've noticed someone released a bunch of pet ducks, look like some sort of asian species, into the wild.  After the winter melt, I noticed all of them paired off...... with regular mallard ducks.  I'm sure the moron will be long and dead by then, but with the amount of ground birds can travel in any given day is well within the boundaries of all the other duck populations around here, you can only imagine that it will just be a period of time before they ruin the rest of the pure mallards in the area.

Other hybrid organisms that refute "no harm done"  is fish, in which hybridization has cause humongous drops in natural populations, and or presents a competitive advantage, which will depete the species of fish these hybrids feed on.  Also we have seen many unforuate circumstances plant hybridizing in the wild.

Sorry for the ear full, but the comments in this thread were far from accurate.


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## Aztek (Jul 26, 2007)

He never said he was going to release them in to the wild...


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## Brian S (Jul 26, 2007)

Aztek said:


> He never said he was going to release them in to the wild...


True but releasing them into the hobby can effect all of us


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## ~Abyss~ (Jul 26, 2007)

sycjoco said:


> Well I am off to cure cancer, while you fight for how things have been for millions of years.
> 
> Edit: also create a variety of hybrid scorpions. And no begging will not get me to give you any.


Whats up with this newb here trying some genetics experiments with an animal he hardly know about.:evil: Do what you want but i'm willing to bet your not gonna do any crossbreeding of any size.


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## JLDomestics (Jul 26, 2007)

I don't see how the mallard duck fits into this discussion. The ducks live in the wild. We are talking about captive specimens which will only be living in captivity. I know this comes down to a matter of ethics and personal opinion, and there is no right or wrong answer. SOme people don't like hybrids, that's fine. Others, like me, are quite fascinated with them, and actually strive to obtain hybrid specimens. I can see Brian S standpoint about not wanting to obtain any hybrids that he thinks are "purebreds"(not sure if that word fits properly?), but that's where it comes down to doing your research before you buy to make certain that what you are receiving is what you want to be receiving. Give it another 10 or 20 years, there will be more hybrids around than you can believe right now.


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## quiz (Jul 26, 2007)

JLDomestics said:


> I don't see how the mallard duck fits into this discussion. The ducks live in the wild. We are talking about captive specimens which will only be living in captivity. I know this comes down to a matter of ethics and personal opinion, and there is no right or wrong answer. SOme people don't like hybrids, that's fine. Others, like me, are quite fascinated with them, and actually strive to obtain hybrid specimens. I can see Brian S standpoint about not wanting to obtain any hybrids that he thinks are "purebreds"(not sure if that word fits properly?), but that's where it comes down to doing your research before you buy to make certain that what you are receiving is what you want to be receiving. *Give it another 10 or 20 years, there will be more hybrids around than you can believe right now*.


hybrids of? :5:


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## tabor (Jul 26, 2007)

Hopefully most species wont interbeed so it wont even be an issue


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## JLDomestics (Jul 27, 2007)

quiz said:


> hybrids of? :5:


Animals. Mammals, amphibians, reptiles, and invertebrates. Maybe birds.


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## JLDomestics (Jul 27, 2007)

tabor said:


> Hopefully most species wont interbeed so it wont even be an issue


Exactly, most species can't interbreed.


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## scorpians111 (Jul 29, 2007)

heres my ansew why not ask some1 on here for a active emp and ask him to send u it and breed them together so u have 50 % of a chance to get a active and vicious emp and i think crossbreeding is wrong but it is possible


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## final-sting (Jul 29, 2007)

here on Insect-boerse (Olten/CH)  its forbid bring hybrids to the Insect-boerse! Thats correct.

But i think we scorp/spider holders mostly are sensible for the topic hybrids. When i look for example to the Snakes market, search/google for "albino or hybride  snakes" you will find so many    often made by usa.

---------
But i ask me, what does the nature? 
For example : Hadrurus , when a male h. spadix will find a adult female H. arizonesis, i dont think he know the legislation of breeding ehtic.  
Sure mother nature makes no foul, so what color are the spadix/arizonesis off-spring? dark same spadix, or mix or spadix&arizonesis=H. pallidus


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## JLDomestics (Jul 29, 2007)

final-sting said:


> here on Insect-boerse (Olten/CH)  its forbid bring hybrids to the Insect-boerse! Thats correct.
> 
> But i think we scorp/spider holders mostly are sensible for the topic hybrids. When i look for example to the Snakes market, search/google for "albino or hybride  snakes" you will find so many    often made by usa.
> 
> ...


I had problems following that, but if your blaming the states for something your probably right. It seems every problem these days whether it political or social is a result of the US of A.


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## tabor (Jul 29, 2007)

JLDomestics said:


> I had problems following that, but if your blaming the states for something your probably right. It seems every problem these days whether it political or social is a result of the US of A.


Cool thanks, you're political views towards the US are really relevant in a scorpion forum :clap: 

I can name one problem that doesn't come out of the US of A: Your worthless posting.

I dont really care if you hate or love america, or any country for that matter, but why would you drag this crap into a discussion about scorpions? 

edit: stereotyping people based on nationality is rather foolish. I have friends from around the world, and have travelled extensively. Every location has its positives, and its negatives. Judging an entire nation of people based on the actions of its government (which seems to be what your hinting at im not really sure), is extremely ignorant. Not everyone from the US is a war loving redneck, not everyone from canada is a potloving hokey fan, not every person from the middle east is a terrorist. If you havent realized this by now then I pity you.


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## looper (Jul 29, 2007)

tabor said:


> Cool thanks, you're political views towards the US are really relevant in a scorpion forum :clap:
> 
> I can name one problem that doesn't come out of the US of A: Your worthless posting.
> 
> ...


well said tabor


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## wonderwes (Jul 29, 2007)

*petdepot*

pet depot man i breed insects and fish for pet depot.theyll buy them i am sure of it. i kinda acceidently got cought up breeding stuff for them.but its enjoyable


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## wonderwes (Jul 29, 2007)

*support*

these guys may not support your idea of crossbreeding. but i do . i am in school for genetic engineering and i agree why not try as long as this hybrid species stays in terrariums and is never released into the wild. but of course stuff like this happens all the time in the wild i no of many species that do cross breed.. i am not here to nag on anyone i just think that controversial ideas are the ideas that make the future


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## tabor (Jul 29, 2007)

wonderwes said:


> these guys may not support your idea of crossbreeding. but i do . i am in school for genetic engineering and i agree why not try as long as this hybrid species stays in terrariums and is never released into the wild. but of course stuff like this happens all the time in the wild i no of many species that do cross breed.. i am not here to nag on anyone i just think that controversial ideas are the ideas that make the future


Scorpions have plenty to offer science and medicine as they are, with no need for crossbreeding. Their venom is just now beginning to be employed in modern medicine. If i recall correcly one component of L. quinquestriatus venom is actually already in use treating this super rare and devastating form of brain cancer.

I'm just curious as to what advances in science you think are going to come from crossbreeding arachnids. The science behind hybridization is already well understood.

Even if there were gains to be made, they will not be made by under-educated and under-prepared persons such as the original poster, they will be made in a lab at Harvard or some research center. 

Also, I'm opposed to crossbreeding IN THE HOBBY. If there was some benefit that could be gained from it then by all means allow well trained biologists, operating under controlled conditions, to crossbreed all they want. Also realize that the general public would NOT consider the idea of crossbreeding scorpions "controversial". If you want something controversial, try stem cells. But again that is an entirely different can of worms, not something that should be debated here. 

All i'm saying is that as a general rule people in the hobby should not be crossbreeding species, especially when said person can barely grasp the basics of caring for an emperor scorpion.


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## wonderwes (Jul 30, 2007)

*acctulaly*

i am not trying to get in a fight i just have this to say first off there are tons of uses for scorpion venom .but what if the cure for cancer was in a certain venom that came from these scorpions cross breeding.i am not saying it is infact it most certainly wont be.i just support the fact of trying to devlope better more intresting scropions for strictly the pet industry why would in one be against trying to breed up some thing that fit ure wants.not for medical reasons but just for pure human enjoyment. god made us the masters of all things on earth why cant we simply manipulate what we want to better. like i said i am not trying to fight with u . i have just heard that lots of people in this buissness are extreemly against cross breeding and i would like to know why


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## wonderwes (Jul 30, 2007)

ok i agree with u on most of that about having to no how to take care of a speices ,,but i wouldnt sell anyone short of their abiltys


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## tabor (Jul 30, 2007)

Wow, what a bizzare debate. First of all, what the heck, designing a "better" scorpion? 400 million years of natural selection isn't good enough for you? Then you drag the idea of creationism into this argument. Are you trying to make this as convoluted as possible? :? I'm not even going bother debating this at an in depth level with you online, but I will do you the favor of spelling out why most people are against crossbreeding (or at least why I am):

The possibility of "polluting" otherwise pure captive bloodlines due to interbreeding with one of these hybrids. That's all really. If you can't see why this would bother people devoted to preserving rare scorpions (some of which are disappearing rapidly in the wild) in captivity, then I don't know what to tell you.

Also your spelling is atrocious  

I wish you all well in your interbreeding attempts! Go forth young man, create monster scorpions that will rule the world and cure cancer with their l33t hax.


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## Bayushi (Jul 30, 2007)

tabor said:


> I wish you all well in your interbreeding attempts! Go forth young man, create monster scorpions that will rule the world and cure cancer with their l33t hax.



 That would be I337 h4x Tabor....  and yes it hurt to type it like that


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## JLDomestics (Jul 30, 2007)

Yeah I don't feel like going into this anymore. Im done. But I did go through and re read everything and I fail to see where creatonism was brought in by anyone.


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## Bayushi (Jul 30, 2007)

wonderwes said:


> i have just heard that lots of people in this buissness are extreemly against cross breeding and i would like to know why


 It's really a simple answer. You end up with a hybrid, that ends up capable of reproducing, and fail to let anyone know that it is one or sell it to someone who doesn't inform the next buyer and you have just ruined a breeding project.

I know i'd be extremely ticked off if my emp breeding program got polluted by a  hybrid...


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## tabor (Jul 30, 2007)

JLDomestics said:


> I fail to see where creatonism was brought in by anyone.





wonderwes said:


> god made us the masters of all things on earth why cant we simply manipulate what we want to better.


There it is. 

But yes it's a pointless argument, and I guess there is little you can do to stop someone from trying it if thats what they're determined to do. Luckily crossbreeding is likely quite difficult if not impossible.


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## wonderwes (Jul 30, 2007)

you dont have to talk down to  me as if your a better person.you seem to be trying to make this a personal issue when it just a scientific debate, but you know i dont have to lower myself to your level,becouse i relize in your mind i could never meet your intelegence level.so what ever go on with ure beliefs


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## sycjoco (Jul 30, 2007)

Don't trip. This guy tabor is just on a Ego trip and figures his arguements sound better while he clowns on your spelling and grammar. Honestly who gives a <EDIT> about the spelling? You can perfectly comprehend the idea being laid across, but have a need to support your arguement with irrelevent statements... So what if English wasn't my primary language? All the <EDIT> better for me. So in conclusion. <EDIT>


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## tabor (Jul 30, 2007)

sycjoco said:


> Don't trip. This guy tabor is just on a Ego trip and figures his arguements sound better while he clowns on your spelling and grammar. Honestly who gives a <EDIT> about the spelling? You can perfectly comprehend the idea being laid across, but have a need to support your arguement with irrelevent statements... So what if English wasn't my primary language? All the <EDIT> better for me. So in conclusion. <EDIT>


quoting for my own enjoyment  

My arguments don't sound better because im "clowning" you, they sound better because they're actually vaild arguments. not just, "im a human we can design da super scorp" ramblings.


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## Rosenkreuz (Jul 30, 2007)

sycjoco said:


> Don't trip. This guy tabor is just on a Ego trip and figures his arguements sound better while he clowns on your spelling and grammar. Honestly who gives a <EDIT> about the spelling? You can perfectly comprehend the idea being laid across, but have a need to support your arguement with irrelevent statements... So what if English wasn't my primary language? All the <EDIT> better for me. So in conclusion. <EDIT>


I'm someone who goes with the flow, and gives everyone a chance to say their piece.

Now, I think I'm saying a piece for everyone.* Please leave. Don't come back. Take your scorpion back to where you got it. 

Please.


*Based alot on the 'feeling' I'm getting from this thread, and others you've posted in. Anyone can correct me if I'm wrong.



EDIT: Can we get a thread closure on this? I think we've beaten a horse deader than dead so far. No more progress is going to be made by leaving this open.


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## wonderwes (Jul 30, 2007)

*i am sayin*

heres all i am saying about cross breeding, first off the idea with this species will never work, why becouse red claws can become  aggressive during mateing ,especialy if they do not find the other suitable for breeding then they will some times fight to the death.secound most scorpions have either become endangerd or close to it becouse of this industry, so i am just saying what if you could create a better more interesting speices ,thats was easier to take care of etc etc, then may be begginers would not be so apt to by emperor scorpions, that way pet stores never sell them.a more popular pet that give the true scorpion a better chance becouse its not being captured. thats my argument.


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## Rydog (Jul 30, 2007)

:wall: Well on to the next completely ignorrant guy who wants to try to do something complately stupid and who has no backing for his reasoning.:clap: I was following this thread but never piped in not only because I to am a noob at scorpions but because I would rather watch this play out.


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## CID143ti (Jul 30, 2007)

Wow, this is a funny thread.  Here is my two cents...sycjoco, if you want to try crossbreeding go ahead...I wish you the best of luck.  If you produce any offspring, I would love to hear about it.  I know that some Parabuthis species have been crossbred.  I think the cross was a P. transvaalicus and P. villosus.  I'm sure there are other examples.

Secondly, if you choose to trade, sell or give them away; please market them as hybrids.  It is the seller's responsibility to appropriately market and fully disclose any information about their product to the buyer.  It is the buyer's responsibility to purchase from a person that they trust and believe has the appropriate product for them.  

To those that don't support his efforts...don't trade, buy or accpet scorpions from him or anyone else that you would question the validity of their stock.  What you choose to accquire and or introduce into your colonies becomes your responsibility.  Ensure that you keep your colonies clean by trading, purchasing, or accepting scorpions from individuals that you trust.  

I quarantine all my animals that I buy, trade for, or accquire...even the ones from good friends and trusted dealers.  This is something I assume as my responsibility.  During the quarantine period, I observe and check for problems such as poor health, mites, injuries, or any other red flags.  A red flag that comes up fairly often is unidentified or misidentified scorps.   If I am in question of their identification, I don't place them with positively identified scorps.  Instead, they are given their own space.  Sometimes these new or unidentified scorps can be a lot of fun.  

W. Smith


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## quiz (Jul 30, 2007)

CID143ti said:


> Wow, this is a funny thread.  Here is my two cents...sycjoco, if you want to try crossbreeding go ahead...I wish you the best of luck.  If you produce any offspring, I would love to hear about it.  I know that some Parabuthis species have been crossbred.  I think the cross was a P. transvaalicus and P. villosus.  I'm sure there are other examples.
> 
> Secondly, if you choose to trade, sell or give them away; please market them as hybrids.  It is the seller's responsibility to appropriately market and fully disclose any information about their product to the buyer.  It is the buyer's responsibility to purchase from a person that they trust and believe has the appropriate product for them.
> 
> ...


There was no cross-breed bro.  We all thought it was a cross breed because we listened to the breeders words but at the end of the day.  It was just a plain old P.transvaalicus.  I'm not gonna get into details but that's what happened.


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## driver (Jul 30, 2007)

hey quiz, offtopic question, but did you end up getting rid of that tityus serrulatus you were selling?


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## Galapoheros (Jul 30, 2007)

Oh man, wait, wait, ....wait, ...quiz, did you just call P. trans "plain" and "old"?  Oh man that hurt.  Ha, just kiddin.  I've been passing up this thread but finally decide to click on it.  I don't think the Xbreeding thing at the beginning of the thread is going to happen anyway.  I think it's good that people can read everybody's opinion here.  It might get some other people that read it, to start thinking about it and come up with their own opinion.  If everybody was responsible like CID suggested, I think it'd be interesting ...if people kept experiments isolated to see what comes up and kept others informed.  So many new discoveries happened by accident.  Anyway, I've got a ques about genetics.  If two species create young and those young are able to create viable young, wouldn't that mean they really are not different species after all and only diff forms or subspecies?  I took a g class about 20 years ago but I can't remember...  I saw a show about dogs, allot of y'all prob saw it too.  All the dog breeds can all be traced back to the wolf.  Man breed all the diff breeds from the wolf.  Like mentioned earlier, all dogs are one species, we just call them diff "breeds".  That was a pretty good show.  Poodles, Chihuahuas, Pugs,... all just a look and characteristics like smelling ability, sight, etc., that man isolated from the wolf, from what I understood.  Man that's amazing.  This thread also made me think of how man cares about nature.  But nature doesn't care that man cares.  Nature doesn't care if man messes it up.  It being "messed up" is only a perception of man.  Man cares if man changes things or "messes it up" in a way that it affects man, even if it simply makes one sad.  I don't know ...just thinking out loud I guess.


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## Tuishimi (Jul 30, 2007)

We are just a drop of spit on the ocean.  The Earth will fix itself up when we are long gone.  May even fix itself up and catch us in the process.


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## Rain_Flower (Jul 31, 2007)

tabor said:


> (ie the creation of a working dog like the daschund or something)


I know I'm a bit late on the post but I just thought I'd let you know that a  "daschund" is a weiner dog, now I don't know what your talking about but weiner dogs definately aren't working dogs.

And I do agree with you in these posts about the scorpions, but just for future references it might be a good idea to get your facts straight before trying to prove a point to someone.


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## Bayushi (Jul 31, 2007)

Dachals were bred as hunting dogs. they were used to hunt burrowing animals like rabbits.. so i guess technically they are a working dog.


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## tabor (Jul 31, 2007)

Rain_Flower said:


> I know I'm a bit late on the post but I just thought I'd let you know that a  "daschund" is a weiner dog, now I don't know what your talking about but weiner dogs definately aren't working dogs.
> 
> And I do agree with you in these posts about the scorpions, but just for future references it might be a good idea to get your facts straight before trying to prove a point to someone.


Just because its called a "weiner dog" and is now kept as a domesticated pet doesn't mean it wasn't bred for a specific job. In fact, a quick check of Wikipedia gives us this helpful info about the dacshund:



			
				Wikipedia said:
			
		

> The standard size was developed to scent, chase, and flush badgers and other burrow-dwelling animals, while the miniature was to hunt rabbits.


Wait what is this? They were selectively bred for a specific purpose?!?!... a purpose which seems like it involves a lot of work. Seems to be pretty close in line with what I was saying.

There's no reason to "get my facts straight", as the point I was trying to make is that the selective breeding of dogs has historical served some sort of purpose. It is irrelevant if they are classified as "hounds" or "working dogs" by the AKC or whatever crappy dog show you were watching on Animal Planet when you decided you were an expert in weiner dogs.

jesus why wont this thread die?


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## quiz (Jul 31, 2007)

Galapoheros said:


> Oh man, wait, wait, ....wait, ...quiz, did you just call P. trans "plain" and "old"?  Oh man that hurt.  Ha, just kiddin.  I've been passing up this thread but finally decide to click on it.  I don't think the Xbreeding thing at the beginning of the thread is going to happen anyway.  I think it's good that people can read everybody's opinion here.  It might get some other people that read it, to start thinking about it and come up with their own opinion.  If everybody was responsible like CID suggested, I think it'd be interesting ...if people kept experiments isolated to see what comes up and kept others informed.  So many new discoveries happened by accident.  Anyway, I've got a ques about genetics.  If two species create young and those young are able to create viable young, wouldn't that mean they really are not different species after all and only diff forms or subspecies?  I took a g class about 20 years ago but I can't remember...  I saw a show about dogs, allot of y'all prob saw it too.  All the dog breeds can all be traced back to the wolf.  Man breed all the diff breeds from the wolf.  Like mentioned earlier, all dogs are one species, we just call them diff "breeds".  That was a pretty good show.  Poodles, Chihuahuas, Pugs,... all just a look and characteristics like smelling ability, sight, etc., that man isolated from the wolf, from what I understood.  Man that's amazing.  This thread also made me think of how man cares about nature.  But nature doesn't care that man cares.  Nature doesn't care if man messes it up.  It being "messed up" is only a perception of man.  Man cares if man changes things or "messes it up" in a way that it affects man, even if it simply makes one sad.  I don't know ...just thinking out loud I guess.


Plain old P.transvaalicus is still beautiful  .  A collection is not complete without this beauties.


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## Rain_Flower (Jul 31, 2007)

okay, even if i was wrong, that's okay, it happens. but jesus christ tabor why are you so deffensive? you don't have to be right ALL the time, you make yourself sound like an <edit>.


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## Rain_Flower (Jul 31, 2007)

You know, nevermind, it doesn't matter, if that's how you wanna be, so be it.


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## Bayushi (Jul 31, 2007)

Tabor.....  why did you change your initial post from a short reply to the long drawn out post?  i know there are two people using the account.. But come on.... it seems one of you tries to be rude and condescending while the other attempts to be cordial.


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## Windchaser (Jul 31, 2007)

*Moderator's note*

OK folks let's keep things civil otherwise infractions will be given out. Personal attacks will not be tolerated. Consider this your offical warning.


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## Schlyne (Aug 3, 2007)

JLDomestics said:


> What's wrong with cross-breeding? 99.9% of the time the resulting hybrids are sterile anyways so no harm can be done! Has anyone ever heard of a mule, beefalo, a fantasy horned frog, a liger or a blood parrot cichlid?


I hate to break it to you, but in cases of reptile hybrids (several snake species have been hybridized) they are FERTILE.   Why, I don't understand, but they are.

Anyway, let's get back to the original subject


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## JLDomestics (Aug 3, 2007)

Schlyne said:


> I hate to break it to you, but in cases of reptile hybrids (several snake species have been hybridized) they are FERTILE.   Why, I don't understand, but they are.
> 
> Anyway, let's get back to the original subject


Yes of course there are a great number of hybrids which can reproduce, some of which the offspring of hybrids are sterile, some are not. But for the great majority, 99% of hybrids are sterile.


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## mitchrobot (Aug 4, 2007)

> What's wrong with cross-breeding? 99.9% of the time the resulting hybrids are sterile anyways so no harm can be done! Has anyone ever heard of a mule, beefalo, a fantasy horned frog, a liger or a blood parrot cichlid?


blood parrots arent hybrids. they are what happens when you add zinc to the water that you are hatching the eggs in.  

hybrid cichlids (central and south american atleast) can reproduce just fine. have you heard of "flowerhorns"? some have an amazing amount of different species mixed into their bloodlines, and they breed like rabbits.


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## Rosenkreuz (Aug 4, 2007)

mitchrobot said:


> blood parrots arent hybrids.


After Googling, every site so far has said they're hybrids, first created in Taiwan about 11 years ago. And most mention how males are generally infertile, although some successful breeding has been accomplished.


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