# A Warning Agains Cypress Mulch



## ZooRex (Feb 19, 2009)

I know I have been a strong advocate of cypress mulch as a substrate. Actually it has the only thing I've used for the past three years for my pythons. Last night I took my carpet python to a very knowledgeable reptile vet who has been in both the herp and veterinary world for over 40 years. As it turns out, my snake has no respitory infection as I presumed, but the vet thought his lack of appetite was due to my use of mulch. I was informed that although not as near toxic as pine or ceader, cypress does contain tannins that over long periods can have negative effects on snakes including loss of appetite. 

I hereby give my apologies to anybody who I suggested cypress to. As far as I had ever known, it was the perfect snake substrate. Unfortunately, it has proven to be not so. 

Today I will switch my carpet over to newspaper temporarily, until I can find another suitable substrate that looks a bit more natural. My vet suggested washed and sterilized silica gravel; I will have to take a look into it. ~ Rex


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## ThomasH (Feb 19, 2009)

Anyone who has suggested silica gravel is not the person to accept advice from. Try to get another opinion and do share the qualifications of this vet. I know a guy that uses cypress for his collecttion of over a hundred snakes. No problems.
TBH


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## ZooRex (Feb 19, 2009)

Yeah I know the crushed silica gravel surprised me as well. Nevertheless, the vet I visited is highly experienced and knows what he is talking about. He has been working with reptiles for decades and has made significant efforts in captive breeding numerous engendered species. After talking with him for an odd 30 minutes it was clear to me that the hobby is filled with misinformation, more so then I ever thought possible. Cypress as substrate is just an example of this.

Needless to say, I trust his judgment. I am not telling anybody what to do with they're snakes, I am only sharing what I have just recently learned. I only have my animals best interest in mind, along with everyone's here. I'd hate to be even partly responsible for some keepers head ache down the road because I suggested cypress to them.


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## skippy (Feb 19, 2009)

i've always heard good things about aspen... not sure if it's natuaral enough looking for you but, there you go


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## Craig (Feb 19, 2009)

What was the name of the vet? I happen to know a lot of people in the vet community especially reptile vets. I'm curious as to who said this.


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## Matt K (Feb 19, 2009)

Cypress is completely harmless.  That vet "with experience" has nothing to base that on other than his opinion which is full of crap.  Newspaper is safe and yet has more potential problems than cypress mulch.  He may be confusing cypress mulch with hardwood mulch.  Cypress does not break down very fast and does not express tannins to any real extent as does hardwood mulch which breaks down very rapidly and does release lots of tannins right off.  Furthermore, there has been no paper or study to show that tannins have any detrimental effect on any reptile that I can find- in fact it is beneficial to many reptiles and amphibians.

Regardless of what he has supposedly done with endangered species, (good for him) no vet is an expert on the captive husbandry of snakes.  I have used cypress personally on a very large number of uncommon snake species for 20 years and it has never once been a problem.  It works so well that I use it for my insects and arachnids too without issues.

I hate it when vets think they know more than they do and then people wind up posting the same garbage as gospel.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## LeilaNami (Feb 19, 2009)

Just remember vets are human.  They make mistakes as much as the rest of us.  I'm not suggesting the vet is wrong (though I've read ingestion of silica in sand is like swallowing broken glass for the herp)  It is always good to get a second opinion despite how much you trust them.  (I know this from experience)


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## Craig (Feb 20, 2009)

LeilaNami said:


> Just remember vets are human.  They make mistakes as much as the rest of us.  I'm not suggesting the vet is wrong (though I've read ingestion of silica in sand is like swallowing broken glass for the herp)  It is always good to get a second opinion despite how much you trust them.  (I know this from experience)


A mistake is no excuse for bad information. I had my Asian water monitor on cypress mulch and he never had any problems what so ever. I really want to see what vet said this.


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## LeilaNami (Feb 20, 2009)

Craig said:


> A mistake is no excuse for bad information. I had my Asian water monitor on cypress mulch and he never had any problems what so ever. I really want to see what vet said this.


I'm not excusing the doctor but like what was said, there's a lot of bad information floating around in this hobby.  You have to sift through a bunch of crap to get to the gold


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## DrJ (Feb 20, 2009)

skippy said:


> i've always heard good things about aspen... not sure if it's natuaral enough looking for you but, there you go


Aspen isn't a good choice for humidity loving herps, as that is what cyprus is usually used for.  Aspen tends to mold easy.

One could also use white paper towels.  They are easy to change out, for weekly cage cleanings, and have a nice appearance that isn't tacky like newspaper, and is relatively cheap.  

However, if you need humidity and don't want to use paper towels, cyprus really is pretty much the good stuff.


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## DavidD (Feb 20, 2009)

ThomasH said:


> Anyone who has suggested silica gravel is not the person to accept advice from. Try to get another opinion and do share the qualifications of this vet. I know a guy that uses cypress for his collecttion of over a hundred snakes. No problems.
> TBH


I know the guy to he has everything from corns to cobras on cypress and they love it and are fine


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## hardlucktattoo (Feb 21, 2009)

As pretty much everyone else here has stated I am not trying to push my practices on everyone else just throwing in my personal opinion and suggestions. First and foremost IMO no snake should be fed in its enclosure 2 no snake in the wild is kept on any one substrate there is no cure all everything should be what fits yours and  your snakes needs best I personally like to change my type of bedding every now and then just to try out new things see if anything works better than anything else also i think your vet may have suggested the bedding was the source of the problem cause it sounds better than I have no idea now give me your money


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## LeilaNami (Feb 21, 2009)

hardlucktattoo said:


> As pretty much everyone else here has stated I am not trying to push my practices on everyone else just throwing in my personal opinion and suggestions. First and foremost IMO no snake should be fed in its enclosure 2 no snake in the wild is kept on any one substrate there is no cure all everything should be what fits yours and  your snakes needs best I personally like to change my type of bedding every now and then just to try out new things see if anything works better than anything else also i think your vet may have suggested the bedding was the source of the problem cause it sounds better than I have no idea now give me your money


:worship: You know, we had a vet here that wanted to euthanize a parakeet for a sebaceous cyst because she didn't know what it was?  Good example.


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## Craig (Feb 23, 2009)

I noticed that the original poster did not reply and say which vet said this. Is the vet even a member of the ARAV?


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## Dave (Feb 27, 2009)

Look further into cypress mulch and the root cause of the problem. Sometimes vets are a lot of book smart if you know what I mean.


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## Matt K (Feb 27, 2009)

The OP has been off this thread for some time, and since the "mood" indicator is 'Psychedelic' maybe he was high when he made the post and later forgot....

Dave makes a good point- vets who have know idea about reptiles will often just follow a text book flow chart instead of ask pertinant questions and find the real problem(s).


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## Zeus9699 (Mar 1, 2009)

*Mulch*

I have been breeding different reptiles and amphibians for over 30 years and I have never had any problems using cypress mulch as bedding. I have used it for thousands of snakes, lizards and amphibians, as well as numerous tortoises. Please rethink what your vet told you and get another opinion.

Mark
Animal Magic


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