# Selenocosmia sp.



## Steffen (May 22, 2006)

Any guesses on the species? Bought it as javanensis, but those who labeled it would also label a Grammostola rosea as Poecilotheria metallica if they could make more money from it. :wall: I've been thinking lanipes, but sadly all we can do for now, is guessing. But its still fun, so let me hear. 

Btw. She is without a doubt the most calm asian I have ever met.


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## Steve Nunn (May 22, 2006)

Hi Steffen,
To me at first glance this spider looks like one of the PNG _Phlogius spp._. I can't get away from that deep fovea and clear thoracic grooves though (very un-Phlogius ), perhaps something from further west then PNG???

If she has bilobular spermethecae she would have come from the Javan region, unilobular "tombstone" spermethecae and she's most likely from PNG/Phillipine region. Also a look at the basal prolateral cheliceral face for peg/spine like setae would help, particularly if she has the unilobular spermethecae.

A good look at the lyra of this spider would also greatly help, lack of bacillae (elongated club/paddle shaped setae) in the lyra, with a combination of bilobular spermethecae and intercheliceral pegs/spines and she's most likely a true Javan form _Selenocosmia species_. The same combination above, only with paddleform bacillae in the lyra and she will most likely be one of the Malay _Coremiocnemis_. Unilobular spermethecae with a combination of paddleform setae in the lyra and intercheliceral pegs/spines and she's in the PNG/Australian _Coremiocnemis_ group. Unilobular spermethecae with a combination of bacillate/paddleform lyra in an ovular cluster (1/4 moon shaped cluster denotes another closely related genus, but she won't have these), no intercheliceral pegs/spines and she'll nicely fit in the _Phlogius_ group and closely related to _"Selenocosmia/Phlogius lanipes"_. 

What is unfortunate is you will never 100% identifiy this spider as _sp. lanipes_ as the type is gone, but this species seems to resemble several other _Phlogius spp._ which are described, of which yours may well fit into.

Bottom line is you can't find out until she moults and you can get into the exuiva 

Cheers,
Steve


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## Steffen (May 23, 2006)

Cool stuff Steve. Thanks alot. That certainly cleared up a few things for me (aswell as complicated a few  ). She moulted about a month ago (you can tell by the good looks of her, can't you?  )and I have a perfect exuvia. So I guess I will be looking into it soon.


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## Steve Nunn (May 23, 2006)

Hi Steffen,
Excellent, time to grab the knife! Any questions and feel free to PM me 

Steve


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## kyle_de_aussie (May 23, 2006)

She's very beautifull nice purple shine going on there


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## Steffen (May 23, 2006)

Yes the colors... that's a funny thing, because 1 year ago when she was a bit smaller, she had a light brown/yellow tan.







www.snakecharmers.dk


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## FryLock (May 23, 2006)

I saw this last night and thought looks like a stocky Java Selenocosmina but i know better these days then to base an opinion on just that.

So I made a small sacrifice and asked a few Q's and iv been told Steve may well find a patch of short peg like lyra and ICPS, but bare in mind it was only a chicken and frozen one at that so id wait for Steve's answer .


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## Steve Nunn (May 23, 2006)

Hi Bill,
Yes, I know the carapace morphology well enough to think most likely a Javan _Selenocosmia sp._ too , but, you never know!! 

Cheers,
Steve


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## Maikardaaion (Jun 4, 2006)

*Selenocosmia javanensis*, juvenile


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## Steffen (Jun 4, 2006)

Maikardaaion said:
			
		

> *Selenocosmia javanensis*, juvenile


Are you sure of the ID? And where did you aquire this specimen from? In any case if you posted the image for comparison it won't do much sadly. There are supposedly several colorforms. I heard of at least 3 and even the ID of those are propably rubbish. But it's a nice spider though.


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## Maikardaaion (Jun 4, 2006)

I'm absolutely not sure of the ID 

A year ago a local dealer got a transport of Selenocosmia sp. Java adult females. The most probable ID was javanensis... As it happens the female laid cocoons. That's the specimen from one of the cocoons.
It seemed that there were 2 different colour forms - one brown and and one black.


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## Steffen (Jun 4, 2006)

Yes it might be two colorforms. But how about two different aged spiders? If you look at the pictures I posted you can see the drastic colorchange and it accured within 2 molts. It's really confusing. :wall:


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## Steve Nunn (Jun 4, 2006)

Hi Steffen,
Yes, the colour of _S.javanensis_ varies greatly, depending on the locale of the animal. At first glance your spider looks just like the typical forms found on Java, the blueish femura are really nice, that is one of the nicest forms from Java I've ever seen (and if it's not Java, then it's most likely very close, I'd be sure this is from the true _Selenocosmia_ group).

There are the subspecies of this form too (Kulczyn'ski's types from 1908, _spp. S.jav. brachyplectra, S.jav. dolichoplectra & S.jav. fulva_, all from Java. Although they are most likely just colour forms and geographic variants of _javanensis_). I would guess (pure guess too ) that Strand's _S.jav. sumatrana_ 1907 may be the first to look at if any of these "subspecies" are seperate biospecies, due to the fact these have been recently isolated.

It might pay to get hold of Kulczyn'ski's original descriptions to look for colour references and carapace _cf._ leg measurements that might be specific to your spider.

The very deep and strong fovea of your spider is typical to the Javan fauna and most of the true _Selenocosmia spp._, if you can find out I'd be very interested in the actual locale of this spider.....

Thanks,
Steve


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## Steffen (Jun 5, 2006)

Hi Steve.

Sadly I haven't had much time to look into the subject lately nor take a look at the exuvium. I'm not that much of an taxonomist either, so I'm considering asking a guy I know for some help, but it may be a while before I get to that point. I'm in the middle of moving to a new house, so I'm really... REALLY in lack of time.  

But I will post some feedback whenever I can. I'm as interested in the ID of this as you are. (Well almost, at least.  )

I know for sure that it was caught in the Java area! That's why it was labeled as javanensis, but it was bought in a petshop and honestly I don't think they know much about these spiders.



> It might pay to get hold of Kulczyn'ski's original descriptions to look for colour references and carapace cf. leg measurements that might be specific to your spider.


How and where do I get my hands on this information?


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## phormingochilus (Aug 15, 2007)

Hey Steffen 

Send me a PM - i am situated in DK and can determine if what you have is Javan or more eastern origin ;-) So it's just a little walk to the post office and a short wait ;-)

Søren


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