# Being Overrun by these. what are they?



## freakedout (Jul 19, 2010)

Hello, I just found this site by trying to figure out what kind of spiders are over running my house here. The location were in is 29 palms, California, in the Mojave desert, right near Joshua tree, yucca valley area. These guys are everywhere in my garage, and are making their way indoors with more and more frequency. I have a pretty severe aversion to spiders, more of a run away and leave them be kind of thing, instead of destroy with extreme prejudice. The only reason im really interested in ID'ing these guys is because i have an 18 month old daughter running around here, too. From my wife and my research thus far, we're thinking either a wolf spider or a grass spider. They are averaging about an inch to an inch and a half in size. There are no webs to speak of that i have seen, and these guys are faaaaast! Thanks in advance for any help!








Also, just found this guy right underneath me a little bit after I finished typing.


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## LasidoraGT (Jul 19, 2010)

Too me it just looks like a wolf spider. I cant specify on species but I'm thinking its just a wolf. nothing to be worried about


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## proper_tea (Jul 19, 2010)

Are those two different species, or is it just an effect of the flash on the camera?  The spider in the second picture is gorgeous.  I think we can say conclusively from the pictures that you have nothing to worry about.  If you want a more accurate ID to satisfy your curiosity, make sure you get a good pic of the spider's eye pattern... although based on what I can see (and I'm a little out of practice), I'm gonna agree that what you have is some kind of wolf spider... no more harmful than any other "bug bite."


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## Moltar (Jul 19, 2010)

I'll echo that these are not a dangerous species. If you really want them gone try putting down some glue traps in corners of rooms where you often see them. If It were _me_ i'd try to live with it, catch/release as many as possible. You're not me though so if you don't want to do that then yeah, glue traps.

I'm not sure if that's 2 species or not. It looks kind of like the first one is immature and the second is a mature male, which could account for the difference. And yes, that second spider is gorgeous. It looks like it may even be a Dolomedes but I don't know what is native to that region so I'm just throwing guesses out. That or some Lycosid.


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## proper_tea (Jul 19, 2010)

I wish I could find my "Spiders of the Eastern US" book.  Obviously, the OP isn't in the Eastern US, but a lot of the information is useful for for IDing spiders all across the country.  I feel like I've seen one that looks very much like this spider in there.


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## Tarantula_Hawk (Jul 19, 2010)

Neither Lycosids nor Pisaurids. They are both Miturgidae, genus _Syspira_.

Reactions: Like 1


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## proper_tea (Jul 19, 2010)

Yeah... gotta say... you nailed it.  I would never even guessed these to be a sac spider.  They're so different than the ones we have around here.

Any idea what their bite is like?  We've got yellow sac spiders around here, which are rumored to have a necrotic venom, but personally, I don't believe it.  I've heard yellow sac spiders compared to a mild brown recluse bite, but any actual first hand reports I've read have completely contradicted this, and proven them to be harmless.

To the original poster:  I think you're probably still alright, and have nothing to worry about.  Although, now that you have the genus, you can do a little bit of research on them.


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## freakedout (Jul 19, 2010)

thanks to all who replied! Very helpful. having trouble finding anything really informative about Miturgidae, genus Syspira. Ill try to get a better shot of their eyes if possible. What are lookin at as far as bites go? Thanks again!


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## Venom (Jul 20, 2010)

I would like to submit a second opinion for spider #2  ---_Arctosa littoralis_

http://bugguide.net/node/view/49228


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## Tarantula_Hawk (Jul 21, 2010)

Gonna have to disagree with you on this one Venom. 
Im definitely ruling out Lycosidae. Overall morphology of both the prosoma and the legs just isnt right.  
But the main reason is the ocular disposition. What we see of it in the second picture is enough: two rows of equally sized eyes. Small PLE which are very different from the typical lycosid PLE which are larger and spaced far back (this than actually be seen in the bugguide picture you posted).
Apart from this, it's also very unlikely to find _Arctosa littoralis_, or any _Arctosa_ sp. in a domestic environment.


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## Venom (Jul 21, 2010)

Tarantula_Hawk said:


> Gonna have to disagree with you on this one Venom.
> Im definitely ruling out Lycosidae. Overall morphology of both the prosoma and the legs just isnt right.


Can you be more specific? I've seen plenty of Artosa littoralis in person, and what I see in this photo is not inconsistent with their morphology.



> But the main reason is the ocular disposition. What we see of it in the second picture is enough: two rows of equally sized eyes. Small PLE which are very different from the typical lycosid PLE which are larger and spaced far back (this than actually be seen in the bugguide picture you posted).


??? I really don't think this image is enough for an ocular analysis. You can't see all the eyes. Maybe my screen resolution is less than yours, but I don't see the eye arrangement you are talking about.



> Apart from this, it's also very unlikely to find _Arctosa littoralis_, or any _Arctosa_ sp. in a domestic environment.


This is just simply wrong. Wolf spiders wander into homes all the time. I have collected numerous A. littoralis in a sand quarry just two blocks from my home. Provided one lives near the correct habitat ( sand ---and the OP is in California....) it's totally conceivable to have this spider wander into one's home.

I can see the first picture being Syspira sp., so I'll give you that :clap: but there is a definite difference between the first and the second picture. I'm sticking with A. littoralis for the second pic.


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## jsloan (Jul 21, 2010)

freakedout said:


> Ill try to get a better shot of their eyes if possible.


That would be helpful toward at least placing these spiders in the right family.


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## Tarantula_Hawk (Jul 22, 2010)

Lycosid prosoma usually is pretty wide in the thoracic part and becomes narrow in the cephalic part, which is also quite raised in order to host 3 rows of eyes (two of which very large). The difference between the two regions of the prosoma is quite clear. In this one, difference is really small and the overall shape is quite flat. It just doesnt look to me as a lycosid prosoma.

I really think the image is enough to rule out a lycosid. You dont have to see all the eyes. You just need to see the PLE. In this spider, the PLE is small, close to the rest of the eyes. You can also see one PME, which is the same size of the PLE, if not smaller.
If it were a lycosid, the PLE would be alot larger, placed far back on the raised cephalic region (which is absent here) and would actually make, with the other PLE, a third row of eyes. Also, as i just said, i see one PME, which is small and placed on the dorsal part of the front of the prosoma. This would never happen in a lycosid, where the PME, as you know, are very large and oriented frontally "thanks" to the space provided by the raised cephalic region.
What i see of the eyes in this picture simply makes me assume they are more or less equally sized and positioned in two regular rows.
http://bugguide.net/node/view/249696
The pattern on the prosoma also helps in confirming _Syspira_ and not _Arctosa_.
These two spiders are different because the first one is probably a juvenile/adult female while the second one is an adult male.

All of this can actually be seen clearly in the 3 bugguide pictures from your link.
This is a similiar picture of a lycosid http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1313/901145677_820b2bea9d.jpg and, even if picture is pretty far, the first thing that i see is a large PLE placed far back on a raised region.

You say wolf spiders wander in houses all the time, but that's a pretty big generalization. As for the distrubution of _Arctosa_, i might be wrong for some N. American species, but here in Europe you're very unlikely to find any _Arctosa_ in your house, unless you live in a hut near a river/lake (and i wouldnt be too sure even then). They are extremely water and habitat dependant and a domestic environment is just too dry for their optimal parameters of high humidity. Then again, this may not be the case for N.A. species so i dont know about that.
On a side note, (not a taunting question) you're sure _A. littoralis_ can be found in the middle of a Californian desert and not in coastal areas as the name would suggest?


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## Johnnyster (Jul 26, 2010)

> Quote:
> Originally Posted by Tarantula_Hawk
> Gonna have to disagree with you on this one Venom.
> Im definitely ruling out Lycosidae. Overall morphology of both the prosoma and the legs just isnt right.
> ...


I agree with ya Venom,,, I've had both and no way they are Miturgidae (judging from the pics of course). Prowling spiders, along with the running crab spiders are much faster than wolf spiders and can go up vertically. Wolf spiders can climb up a bit but that is rare and struggle so he may want to observe that with the ones in his house....

You know what that means!..... it means I have to plan a trip up there and look into it,,,, LOL


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## Merkalee (Jul 26, 2010)

Tarantula_Hawk;1704450You say wolf spiders wander in houses all the time said:
			
		

> Arctosa[/I], i might be wrong for some N. American species, but here in Europe you're very unlikely to find any _Arctosa_ in your house, unless you live in a hut near a river/lake



North American sp. can be found in houses all the time. I have kept several wolf spiders - all of which I've found INside the house.


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## jsloan (Jul 27, 2010)

Tarantula_Hawk said:


> I really think the image is enough to rule out a lycosid. You dont have to see all the eyes. You just need to see the PLE. In this spider, the PLE is small, close to the rest of the eyes. You can also see one PME, which is the same size of the PLE, if not smaller.
> If it were a lycosid, the PLE would be alot larger, placed far back on the raised cephalic region (which is absent here) and would actually make, with the other PLE, a third row of eyes.


It's too bad *freakedout* hasn't given us better pictures.   I enlarged the 2nd one as well as I could and I agree that the PLE look like they're in the wrong place for this to be a lycosid (a better picture would clarify this).   That's not to say I agree it's _Syspira sp._ yet.  I guess I'm a stickler for detail, but I can't see enough in either picture to determine what spiders these are.


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## blacktara (Jul 27, 2010)

proper_tea said:


> I wish I could find my "Spiders of the Eastern US" book.  .


You wish you had your Spiders of the Eastern US book to help identify spiders from the Mohave Desert?

You vote Democrat dont you?


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## freakedout (Aug 1, 2010)

Got about a half dozen on some glue traps at the door leading from the garage. Hope this picture helps? im agreeing with the Prowling Spiders (Miturgidae) syspira. cant find any info on it tho. just classification. Can someone give me some gouge on this guy? Poisonous, etc? Thanks!


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## jsloan (Aug 1, 2010)

Good pics.  I agree with the _Syspira_ ID now.

You can find out a little more about this genus, with some leads to other info, in a recent discussion on BugGuide: http://bugguide.net/node/view/366681


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