# Ball Python enclosure questions.



## Halgeir (Apr 1, 2007)

Greetings.

I've been thinking of getting a snake and been checking out the different species that I've been recommended. The end result was either a Cornsnake/Ratsnake or a Ball Python and I found out that I really prefer Ball Pythons. I've kept different tarantulas and scorpions earlier, but never a reptile. From what I've read on different forums and on different care sheets etc, Ball Pythons can be a little tricky with requirements (please correct me if anything I say is wrong) with their temperature and humidity needs. So I've been wondering how to make the best enclosure for my future Ball Python.
My first concern is that since I'm making the enclosure first, then getting the snake, I don't know if he/she will be a juvenile or adult. And I've heard that Ball Pythons shouldn't have a too large enclosure, but not a too small one either, so what to do? Do I have to build two? Or can I build one that will be big enough for it when it's adult too (if I'm getting a juvenile) ?
I thought about making the enclosure 1 meter long, 50 cm high and 50 cm deep, but I don't know if this will be too big for a juvenile?

Then it's how to build the enclosure. I thought of using wood and glass. Make a frame of wood, front and the sides with glass and the backside of wood. And a lid at the top with ventilation (something like this, I apologize for my terrible googlesketchup skills:  http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m100/Halgeir/terrariumtest.jpg ). But then the question about humidity comes, I need to use something on the wood so it won't expand/rot, is varnish a good idea? Or will the humidity go through it?
While I'm on the humidity part, do I need a fogger? Or can I just spray it daily? I've read they need 60-90% humidity, but it's not very specific, what's the perfect humidity level?

Lightning, I thought of using some spotlights, but they generate a lot of heat, so I don't know if it's a good idea since I'm going to use a heatpad (think that's the right word). My other thought was a "light pipe" (I forgot the English word, long tube of light. You know what I mean) that doesn't produce any heat. I read somewhere that I didn't UV light or anything like that, I could use ordinary light because Ball Pythons are nocturnal, or something that like that, ordinary light is ok?

As substrate, is the reptibark good? Or should I use potting soil?

I will probably have more questions, but I can't think of more at the moment.

I apologize if there are earlier threads that has answered the same questions, I tried to search and I read the ones I found that were about Ball Pythons and their requirements/housing. 
Also, pardon my choice of words, my English vocabulary ain't that good.

Thanks for taking the time to read my thread.


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## Mina (Apr 1, 2007)

Well, the size of the enclosure depends on the size of the snake.  You need to decided what size of snake you are getting first.
Then you need to go to Ball pythons.net.  Its a board, just like this one, but all about ball pythons.  There are care sheets and lots of people to answer questions.  They were a huge help to me when I got my BP a year ago.
Basically, yes, they need higher humidity and heat than a cornsnake.  Most of the people on the boards use aspen as a bedding.  Personally, I don't like it, I prefer coconut bedding.  I like the way it holds humidity better and it does not compact down like the aspen does.  You need a water dish large enough for the snake to fit into, two hides, a heat pad, a temperature and humidity gauge.
You need to decide if you are buying or breeding your feeders, and then decide if you are feeding live, or frozen thawed.  Even if you feed live, you must stun the prey first before giving it to the snake.  Snakes can be seriously injured by biting, scratching prey.  Yes, I know in the wild no one knocks their rats on the head for them before they eat, but I refuse to take that chance with my pet.  Hope that helps, check out the site, it will help too.


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## jr47 (Apr 1, 2007)

i kept mine in a 29 gallon tall fish tank. one hide, a large water bowl for soaking. heat lamps are not good. they dry out everything. i always used moist heating pads, the kind you get at the drug store. hung them in one end of the tank. the pads are great for keeping humidity up. i used them for ten years with no mishaps. and i was lazy and used newspaper. easy to clean up when they poo. but i had a few and keeping all the tanks clean was just much easier with newspaper. 
       they are really easy to keep. only problem i ever had was food. they are very good at being picky about what they eat. had a female for 9 years that wouldnt touch a rat unless it was solid white. she also went 12 months without eating once.


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## K-TRAIN (Apr 1, 2007)

Halgeir said:


> Greetings.
> 
> I've been thinking of getting a snake and been checking out the different species that I've been recommended. The end result was either a Cornsnake/Ratsnake or a Ball Python and I found out that I really prefer Ball Pythons. I've kept different tarantulas and scorpions earlier, but never a reptile. From what I've read on different forums and on different care sheets etc, Ball Pythons can be a little tricky with requirements (please correct me if anything I say is wrong) with their temperature and humidity needs. So I've been wondering how to make the best enclosure for my future Ball Python.
> My first concern is that since I'm making the enclosure first, then getting the snake, I don't know if he/she will be a juvenile or adult. And I've heard that Ball Pythons shouldn't have a too large enclosure, but not a too small one either, so what to do? Do I have to build two? Or can I build one that will be big enough for it when it's adult too (if I'm getting a juvenile) ?
> ...



i never worried about lights, heat, and stuff like that, just that they have room to roam around. i have a ball python i bought at the hamburg show in pa and its healthy. i keep her in a lees herp keeper (the real long one) with cocobark and a exoterra rock hide. for water, i have a pottery bowl i made myself. thats really all you need for a small ball python (mines about 1 1/2 feet long by the way). if you want to measure temp, humidity, etc, your wasting money in my opinion. room temperatures fine for 
them. also, my cousin has a adult. he keeps it in a 20g long. without any heat source, just an aquarium light.

i hope that helps. 
-K-TRAIN


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## Bear Foot Inc (Apr 1, 2007)

No offence or anything but temps and humidity is a BIG part of the snakes health!!!!! People often are given bad advice just so the seller can sell a snake and i think that is very low and bad! 
It does not need to be perfect but it needs to be in the 85*F range on the hot side and room temp on the cold side. Humidity needs only be around 50% 70%+ will give your snake upper resp and could kill it. You NEED a thermometer and you can get a good digital one at walmart for a few dollars. The best way to heat is with a UTH (under tank heater) since ball pythons dont need to bask and light can stress them out. If you use a heat light make sure they have good hides. A 20 long is fine till they are adult and then you should move up to a 30. And a 10 gallon is good for a baby. You can build a custom cage too.
feel free to PM me with any other questions. Have fun with it.
~Samuel


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## Midnightrdr456 (Apr 2, 2007)

K-Train that is horrible advice to give.  Balls need to be kept at about 82-85 or so ambient temps, with a warm side of 90 or so to bask in.  They need about 50-65% humidity (this will be dependent on your location, if you live somplace dry aim for a bit higher humidity).

And adult ball python absolutely can NOT be kept in a 20 gallon long.  Thats a horrible way to keep it.  Adult balls can get anywhere from 4-6' long usually.  They should have an enclosure thats roughly 3-4' long by 20-24" wide (height isnt a huge deal, if its 12"+ its fine).  

They can be kept in the biggest enclosure as a baby if you want, just provide it with enough hides so it feels secure.

Lastly if your going to be keeping it on substrate (i use newspaper for my snakes) dont feed on it, swallowing substrate can lead to problems.


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## Mushroom Spore (Apr 2, 2007)

K-TRAIN said:


> i never worried about lights, heat, and stuff like that...thats really all you need for a small ball python (mines about 1 1/2 feet long by the way). if you want to measure temp, humidity, etc, your wasting money in my opinion. room temperatures fine for them. also, my cousin has a adult. he keeps it in a 20g long. without any heat source, just an aquarium light.


You and your cousin both are out of your freaking minds. :wall: Good luck with the respiratory infections, shedding problems, digestion problems, and quite probable death of your animal. These snakes are notoriously sensitive to bad husbandry, and sicken very easily when kept badly. And you are keeping them badly.

OP, if you've read the previous ball python threads, you already know all the advice I have to give. I'm sick today and just don't have the energy to write it out again. :8o Mainly I just want to say, don't listen to K-Train, he has no clue what he's talking about.


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## Halgeir (Apr 2, 2007)

Hello guys and girls.

Thanks alot for the different advices and comments.

Though there are some questions that didn't get answered. Like, is varnish good enough to use on the wood so it doesn't rot? Should I use something else then wood?
1meter long, 50cm high and 50 cm deep is good for an adult?
Did the horrible sketch (the link) look like an OK idea for the enclosure?

Cheers


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## K-TRAIN (Apr 2, 2007)

Midnightrdr456 said:


> K-Train that is horrible advice to give.  Balls need to be kept at about 82-85 or so ambient temps, with a warm side of 90 or so to bask in.  They need about 50-65% humidity (this will be dependent on your location, if you live somplace dry aim for a bit higher humidity).
> 
> And adult ball python absolutely can NOT be kept in a 20 gallon long.  Thats a horrible way to keep it.  Adult balls can get anywhere from 4-6' long usually.  They should have an enclosure thats roughly 3-4' long by 20-24" wide (height isnt a huge deal, if its 12"+ its fine).
> 
> ...





Mushroom Spore said:


> You and your cousin both are out of your freaking minds. :wall: Good luck with the respiratory infections, shedding problems, digestion problems, and quite probable death of your animal. These snakes are notoriously sensitive to bad husbandry, and sicken very easily when kept badly. And you are keeping them badly.
> 
> OP, if you've read the previous ball python threads, you already know all the advice I have to give. I'm sick today and just don't have the energy to write it out again. :8o Mainly I just want to say, don't listen to K-Train, he has no clue what he's talking about.


look. dont tell me im out of my freaking mind, i dont know what im talkin about, etc. i know people who have raised snakes all their lives like the way i raise mine. sure, it seems bad. but it isnt. i know how to raise animals and mine will probably live longer then normal.


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## ScorpDemon (Apr 2, 2007)

K-TRAIN said:


> i know how to raise animals and mine will probably live longer then normal.



doubtful..


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## dark FrOsT (Apr 2, 2007)

hey im new to this site, but i have been working with snakes for a while now. i didnt really read all the post regarding this topic cause there was a lot of arguing (sp?) i have a ball python. if you get a baby BP or one around 1 foot you can keep it in a 10-15 gal tank. i found that they do better in smaller enclosures. if your thinking of getting a sub-adult the enclosure your thinging of building seems fine. as for misting, i only mist ever 3rd day or so. for lights i use uvb lights cause i have live plants in the enclosure, but i use them in all my tanks cause i figure they get it in the wild. heating i use a undertank heater and on cooler days i also add and heat lamp. i know ppl that dont use heat lamps or pads unless its for a desert species. thats because they have snake rooms. if you dont have a temp controlled room made for reptiles i wouldnt recomend not using a heat source. i guess unless you lived in a hot place geographicly (sp?) then it might work. for substrate i use zoo med forest bark, and have a large water bowl and a cave as a hide box.  sorry if this post kinda drags on


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## Bear Foot Inc (Apr 2, 2007)

K-TRAIN said:


> look. dont tell me im out of my freaking mind, i dont know what im talkin about, etc. i know people who have raised snakes all their lives like the way i raise mine. sure, it seems bad. but it isnt. i know how to raise animals and mine will probably live longer then normal.


Your snake might not die but it is bad advice, so please dont give it to people who dont know what is right and might follow it  
If you want to say this is how i do it and it works for me thats one thing but please dont say it is if its the best and only way.

Snakes can live in many diferint environments but not alwais healthily and a slight upper respiratory infection that normally they could have fought off on there own could turn into lower resp and kill them or make for a $200 vet bill...

~Samuel


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## Halgeir (Apr 3, 2007)

dark FrOsT said:


> hey im new to this site, but i have been working with snakes for a while now. i didnt really read all the post regarding this topic cause there was a lot of arguing (sp?) i have a ball python. if you get a baby BP or one around 1 foot you can keep it in a 10-15 gal tank. i found that they do better in smaller enclosures. if your thinking of getting a sub-adult the enclosure your thinging of building seems fine. as for misting, i only mist ever 3rd day or so. for lights i use uvb lights cause i have live plants in the enclosure, but i use them in all my tanks cause i figure they get it in the wild. heating i use a undertank heater and on cooler days i also add and heat lamp. i know ppl that dont use heat lamps or pads unless its for a desert species. thats because they have snake rooms. if you dont have a temp controlled room made for reptiles i wouldnt recomend not using a heat source. i guess unless you lived in a hot place geographicly (sp?) then it might work. for substrate i use zoo med forest bark, and have a large water bowl and a cave as a hide box.  sorry if this post kinda drags on


Hello and thanks for the advices. I'm planning to use an undertank heater.

Another thing, I found a seller that sells an 4-5 year old BP male. I'm thinking of buying this one.

Bear Foot Inc, Scorpdemon, Mushroomspore and K-TRAIN, please stop arguing. I'm not after that.

And just to it's said. I live in Norway, where all reptiles are forbidden, in other words - I have close to zero chance to get a reptile to a vet. And yes, it raises a lot of argument about if I should have a reptile or not, since I can't provide it with 100% medical help if needed, but that can be discusses in some other thread.


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## Arietans (Apr 3, 2007)

The best you can do is learn from its natural history. Its cage setup with temps and humidity should be similar to the area in which it is found


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## EAD063 (Apr 3, 2007)

Halgeir said:


> Hello and thanks for the advices. I'm planning to use an undertank heater.
> 
> Another thing, I found a seller that sells an 4-5 year old BP male. I'm thinking of buying this one.
> 
> ...


Hal,

I can give you a very unbiased anwser to your question, seeings I'm not a snake owner, but know a few.  I know they need good husbandry, a realtive of mine had about 5 of them, and there was an ice storm which left the state of Maine immobile, without power and in a state of emergency for some time.  They lost power in the morning and by the night the snakes were all dead/almost dead and motionless.  Although this is extreme, it goes to show how easily they're health can degrade in bad conditions.  He didn't have a completly soaked enclosure, but he did have a solid top to restrict ventilation and misted/changed out the enclosure everyday.  On the other had, I have another realitive (both are adults, over 35 by the way) who kept one on newspaper, screen top and no moisture except for the water dish, it died about 2 years after he got it and didn't get nearly as large as any of the snakes my other realitive kept, who has been keeping ever since I was a child.  So I would definently listen to everyone who reccomends humidity and good heat.  Remember also these are COLD BLOODED creatures, meaning they NEED heat to regulate they're metabolism. (Im sure you know, but I wanted to add it)  Not monitoring heat/humidity is basically reckless, and anyone who feels that way belongs sleeping on railroad tracks for a few laughs, not killing..I mean keeping* animals.

PS, varnishing the wood should be fine, I've seen many enclosures done that way, just use descretion to find a kind that seems least caustic.
Another PS, I would just disregard the arguing, scorp,mushroom and bear are all good dudes, they are just looking out for your best interest, plus the person in question is a juvenile, so his expirence is absoultly limited compared to the more frequent and knowledgable contributors to the website.  I know I was always looking for a fight when I was 16.    Kids, lol.


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## Halgeir (Apr 3, 2007)

Thank you for your respond EAD063.

My final conclution is that I need to be very careful about temperature and humidity, in other words, keep a heat pad, get both heat and humidity monitors. I will also make the enclosure size 120x50x50 cm in wood/glass since the BP I'm buying is aprox 1 meter long.

Thank you all for your tips and suggestions. I will post again when I've built the enclosure and gotten the snake or if I run into some building problems along the way.

Once again, thanks guys for your time and effort into helping me.


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## Bear Foot Inc (Apr 3, 2007)

Sound like you are going to have a healthy snake!! Good luck with it. Feel free to ask any other questions you might have,
~Samuel


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## ScorpDemon (Apr 3, 2007)

Don't forget the pictures.. there must always be pictures.
I'm too lazy to post em, so I don't post when I get new animals anymore.. lol


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## Midnightrdr456 (Apr 3, 2007)

i actually wouldnt use wood if you can.  It can be used successfully but can also lead to problems (plus its harder to clean).  I forget the name of the material but you can purchase something and stores like Home Depot (they have those in Norway?) its very similar to plastic material, and they can cut it for you there to the sizes needed.

Wood will work but make sure its 100% treated or it can lead to problems.  Best of luck with your new addition when you get it!


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## Avic_Addict (Apr 3, 2007)

Halgeir said:


> I thought of using wood and glass. Make a frame of wood, front and the sides with glass and the backside of wood.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## dark FrOsT (Apr 3, 2007)

i have heard of ppl using latex paint to seal there enclosures, keeps water and moisture out then i would silicome (sp) the edges also


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## K-TRAIN (Apr 3, 2007)

Bear Foot Inc said:


> Your snake might not die but it is bad advice, so please dont give it to people who dont know what is right and might follow it
> If you want to say this is how i do it and it works for me thats one thing but please dont say it is if its the best and only way.
> 
> Snakes can live in many diferint environments but not alwais healthily and a slight upper respiratory infection that normally they could have fought off on there own could turn into lower resp and kill them or make for a $200 vet bill...
> ...


look, im not tryin to give bad advice. everyone says im giving bad advice, but did you ever raise animals like me? if a person takes my advice over another persons thats fine. im just giving my opinion on how to keep a snake. 



EAD063 said:


> Hal,
> 
> I can give you a very unbiased anwser to your question, seeings I'm not a snake owner, but know a few.  I know they need good husbandry, a realtive of mine had about 5 of them, and there was an ice storm which left the state of Maine immobile, without power and in a state of emergency for some time.  They lost power in the morning and by the night the snakes were all dead/almost dead and motionless.  Although this is extreme, it goes to show how easily they're health can degrade in bad conditions.  He didn't have a completly soaked enclosure, but he did have a solid top to restrict ventilation and misted/changed out the enclosure everyday.  On the other had, I have another realitive (both are adults, over 35 by the way) who kept one on newspaper, screen top and no moisture except for the water dish, it died about 2 years after he got it and didn't get nearly as large as any of the snakes my other realitive kept, who has been keeping ever since I was a child.  So I would definently listen to everyone who reccomends humidity and good heat.  Remember also these are COLD BLOODED creatures, meaning they NEED heat to regulate they're metabolism. (Im sure you know, but I wanted to add it)  Not monitoring heat/humidity is basically reckless, and anyone who feels that way belongs sleeping on railroad tracks for a few laughs, not killing..I mean keeping* animals.
> 
> ...


look. just so you know. it may seem like im looking to start arguments, but im not. and i'd suggest you watch what you say about my experience. just cause im 16 doesnt mean im not that experienced. i've raised reptiles since i was 4 years old. and have studied them too. someone who could already be a herpetologist has more experience then most people. im already willing to spend my life studying wildlife and the environment. referencing what i said above, im giving advice. thats all. you can say im inexperienced, a horrible keeper, whatever. but dont contribute it to me being 16. no offense, but i might have more experience then most of the people on the boards when they were my age.


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## EAD063 (Apr 3, 2007)

K-TRAIN said:


> when they were my age.


But not now.  I'd be curious as to where you are studying.  You are aware you need a masters and a Ph. D to be a herpetologist.  Long away from that, and a very hard road ahead.  Good signs of tenacity, but you have much to learn.  I wasn't trying to throw a personal blow at you before, as I said great tenacity, but I was 16 once too, very opinionate.


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## K-TRAIN (Apr 3, 2007)

EAD063 said:


> But not now.  I'd be curious as to where you are studying.  You are aware you need a masters and a Ph. D to be a herpetologist.  Long away from that, and a very hard road ahead.  Good signs of tenacity, but you have much to learn.  I wasn't trying to throw a personal blow at you before, as I said great tenacity, but I was 16 once too, very opinionate.


i know all about it. but thats all i need now. i have enough experience. i mean, im at the point where my nicknames changing from "k-train" to copperhead because i pick up random venomous snakes when i have too. and i've never been bit. (i do understand though its not if you get bit, its when) i still learn as much as i can every day though. i know my ideas of how animals should be raised is different from other peoples, but you really shouldnt say im inexperienced because i found a method that works for me. i understand that you weren't trying to say that in a bad way or anything, but i just cant stand people who think their ways are the only "right" way.


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## Bear Foot Inc (Apr 4, 2007)

K-TRAIN said:


> look, im not tryin to give bad advice. everyone says im giving bad advice, but did you ever raise animals like me? if a person takes my advice over another persons thats fine. im just giving my opinion on how to keep a snake.
> 
> 
> 
> look. just so you know. it may seem like im looking to start arguments, but im not. and i'd suggest you watch what you say about my experience. just cause im 16 doesnt mean im not that experienced. i've raised reptiles since i was 4 years old. and have studied them too. someone who could already be a herpetologist has more experience then most people. im already willing to spend my life studying wildlife and the environment. referencing what i said above, im giving advice. thats all. you can say im inexperienced, a horrible keeper, whatever. but dont contribute it to me being 16. no offense, but i might have more experience then most of the people on the boards when they were my age.



Well buddy, I'm 15... I work at a reptile rescue and do reptile education programs. I am not bragging but i do know how to keep reptiles. Just because you have caught lots of snakes, or kept some (even for many years) does not mean you know what your doing at all.
And saying you've kept since you were 4 is absolutely not relative!! You could not have actually been able to care for them till 8+ and to actually be able to study and truly learn from them... I'm sorry but if you are interested in becoming a "herpotoligist" you need to lean how to keep your snakes right. Keep an open mind and when someone shows/tells you something your doing wrong with your husbandry its best to lean from it rather then fight back. If someone tells me that i should do this with my keeping i alwais am willing to hear them out and find out just what is right.
Also just because around your house you know the most about snakes does not mean that there are not people who know more then you other places. There are many people who have kept and worked with snakes for 30+ years on here so it pays to listen.


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## Bear Foot Inc (Apr 4, 2007)

K-TRAIN said:


> i know all about it. but thats all i need now. i have enough experience. i mean, im at the point where my nicknames changing from "k-train" to copperhead because i pick up random venomous snakes when i have too. and i've never been bit. (i do understand though its not if you get bit, its when) i still learn as much as i can every day though. i know my ideas of how animals should be raised is different from other peoples, but you really shouldnt say im inexperienced because i found a method that works for me. i understand that you weren't trying to say that in a bad way or anything, but i just cant stand people who think their ways are the only "right" way.


Oh and what are we supposed to say about you picking up "random venomous snakes"? Its not a moncho thing... People are not going to respect you more because you say you have hooked a venomous snake. Its just foolish IMA. We are not saying your "inexperienced" and getting on your case so much because you do stuff wrong but because your not willing to learn and shun what we have to say.


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## K-TRAIN (Apr 4, 2007)

Bear Foot Inc said:


> Well buddy, I'm 15... I work at a reptile rescue and do reptile education programs. I am not bragging but i do know how to keep reptiles. Just because you have caught lots of snakes, or kept some (even for many years) does not mean you know what your doing at all.
> And saying you've kept since you were 4 is absolutely not relative!! You could not have actually been able to care for them till 8+ and to actually be able to study and truly learn from them... I'm sorry but if you are interested in becoming a "herpotoligist" you need to lean how to keep your snakes right. Keep an open mind and when someone shows/tells you something your doing wrong with your husbandry its best to lean from it rather then fight back. If someone tells me that i should do this with my keeping i alwais am willing to hear them out and find out just what is right.
> Also just because around your house you know the most about snakes does not mean that there are not people who know more then you other places. There are many people who have kept and worked with snakes for 30+ years on here so it pays to listen.


look man, where you work, and what you do means nothing to me, iight? im gettin tired of you actin like your an expert. YOUR NOT! i have my way of herp keeping, and you have yours. dont try to make yourself look like your better. and furthermore, ive worked with alot more animals then you. so dont tell me that "just because i caught/owned some" stuff. if your so sure im not good at raising reptiles/amphibians/tarantulas, message me. i'll let you see my current collection. and another thing.......... i know alot of people who have worked with reptiles, including snakes, for over 30 years.   I LEARNED FROM THEM. thats all.


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## Bear Foot Inc (Apr 4, 2007)

K-TRAIN said:


> look man, where you work, and what you do means nothing to me, iight? im gettin tired of you actin like your an expert. YOUR NOT! i have my way of herp keeping, and you have yours. dont try to make yourself look like your better. and furthermore, ive worked with alot more animals then you. so dont tell me that "just because i caught/owned some" stuff. if your so sure im not good at raising reptiles/amphibians/tarantulas, message me. i'll let you see my current collection. and another thing.......... i know alot of people who have worked with reptiles, including snakes, for over 30 years.   I LEARNED FROM THEM. thats all.


I see... I was not saying i am an expert just that i'm not some "Know it all kid". And how do you know you have worked with a lot more animals then me? Like maybe give me a good list of what you have worked with. And then we can see if you have more experince then me.
Look man i'm not trying to make this into a fight. Just trying to help. You wont lean anything by acting like you are,
~Samuel


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## Arietans (Apr 4, 2007)

Guys, slow down a bit.

He gave his opinion, and whether you agree with it or not, its still his opinion. He can either learn from other people's advice or he can't. But by starting an argument he most certainly won't learn anything from what you have to say.

K-train, herpetology is not simply catching snakes. There is a great deal of work that happens long before you pick up a reptile. I have been working with venomous snakes for 14 years, and I still learn something new everyday. The whole learning thing is what makes it worthwhile for me. Calm down a touch and read through some of the posts, there is fairly good advice there.

As for lighting and heating, I never use anything like that here in the summer. Its already hot and humid, so I certainly don't want to add to it. And my forest cobras are most happy with that. Does that make me wrong?

The best way to set up for an animal is to learn its natural history. If its perfect in nature it will be perfect in a cage.


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## Avic_Addict (Apr 4, 2007)

I agree with Arietans, the natural history and biology of the animal in its wild state will provide essentially all the information we need to maintain them happily and healthily in captivity, as is the basis of reptile husbandry.

Lads, please keep arguments to PM only  ; - its not fair on other people who have come here for advice to have their threads clogged up with squabbling, not to mention you risk having your accounts suspended by a moderator. So chill guys.


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## Mushroom Spore (Apr 4, 2007)

Halgeir said:


> And just to it's said. I live in Norway, where all reptiles are forbidden, in other words - I have close to zero chance to get a reptile to a vet.


I hate to say it, but you really shouldn't get one, then.  Especially with how prone balls are to catching something if the house gets cold...what a vet could fix easily with a few shots will kill a snake if left untreated. Sucks, oh man it sucks, I don't know what I'd do if I couldn't have my pets. But if I couldn't get them vet care in this country, I wouldn't have the heart to have them.


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## Bear Foot Inc (Apr 4, 2007)

Avic_Addict said:


> I agree with Arietans, the natural history and biology of the animal in its wild state will provide essentially all the information we need to maintain them happily and healthily in captivity, as is the basis of reptile husbandry.
> 
> Lads, please keep arguments to PM only  ; - its not fair on other people who have come here for advice to have their threads clogged up with squabbling, not to mention you risk having your accounts suspended by a moderator. So chill guys.


Your both right! Sorry i got a little carried away.:8o 
I was really just trying to make sure the snakes got the best care. From Now on i'll no get off topic.
Sorry again OP,
~Samuel


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## Halgeir (Apr 6, 2007)

Mushroom Spore said:


> I hate to say it, but you really shouldn't get one, then.  Especially with how prone balls are to catching something if the house gets cold...what a vet could fix easily with a few shots will kill a snake if left untreated. Sucks, oh man it sucks, I don't know what I'd do if I couldn't have my pets. But if I couldn't get them vet care in this country, I wouldn't have the heart to have them.


Hey Mushroom Spore. I have thought about it, but I just have to give more attention to it's conditions. Warmth, humidity etc. And If it gets sick, I'd rather take it to the vet and get it cured and take the consequences after.


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## Halgeir (Apr 6, 2007)

Avic_Addict said:


> Halgeir said:
> 
> 
> > I thought of using wood and glass. Make a frame of wood, front and the sides with glass and the backside of wood.
> ...


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## Mushroom Spore (Apr 6, 2007)

Halgeir said:


> And If it gets sick, I'd rather take it to the vet and get it cured and take the consequences after.


This made me smile.  It's probably still not the most awesome idea, but if you're willing to suck it up and take it to a vet anyway if it comes down to a question of the snake's life, you're a good person.


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## Avic_Addict (Apr 7, 2007)

No problem!

I know a lot of people that keep their snakes in glass fishtanks wall:  ) will use heatmats under the glass to heat the inside of the tank, but this should really be avoided for reasons already described.
You can try using a heatmat under a wooden viv, but I don't imagine that the heat will travel well through the wood, and will probably just scorch it instead, creating a fire hazard.

The basking bulbs I mentioned should be the infra-red type, made of red glass (Not normal clear glass with red dye painted on, but actual red glass) as these give out heat but do not interfere with the nocturnal royals' daytime/nightime pattern. There is debate as to whether royals can actually see the red light given off by these bulbs, but in my experience the answer is 'No' - all my herps past and present have thrived and bred under infra-red bulbs. We also keep all the animals in our ICU under infra-red bulbs as it provides a deep penetrating heat that increases metabolism and aids recovery following surgery. It is important to use a safety cage with all basking bulbs, to stop the enclosure's occupant from touching the bulb and burning itself.

As for ventilation, the best way to provide adequate air exchange is to use  small plastic vents available from DIY stores or Ebay ( http://search.ebay.co.uk/search/sea...from=R8&satitle=vivarium+air+vents&category0= ) and place one in the bottom left corner of the back of the viv, and one in the top right - this creates a current whereby air is drawn in through the lower vent, across the viv and out of the top vent.  Royals don't need masses of ventilation in the same way that say, chameleons do, just enough to remove excess humidity and prevent the air inside the viv from going stale. Too much ventilation will mess up your temperatures and probably give the snake a cold (always be vigilant for snotty noses and open-mouthed gasping in royals - respiratory infections are killers). 

:}


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## Halgeir (Apr 9, 2007)

Avic_Addict said:


> No problem!
> 
> I know a lot of people that keep their snakes in glass fishtanks wall:  ) will use heatmats under the glass to heat the inside of the tank, but this should really be avoided for reasons already described.
> You can try using a heatmat under a wooden viv, but I don't imagine that the heat will travel well through the wood, and will probably just scorch it instead, creating a fire hazard.
> ...


Ok, I'm going to go for the heating lamps that you're talking about, but I'm unsure if I'm able to get my hands on one after all, and I'm a little unsure of we are on the same page...
http://www.aquariuszoo.com/catalog/terra/product_info.php?cPath=53_170&products_id=2192
with one of these... http://www.aquariuszoo.com/catalog/terra/product_info.php?cPath=53_204&products_id=2601
This one, is probably the closest I'm getting, but I'm not sure if this is what you mean...
I'm going to check the local pet stores to check if they have something else...
Do you have a link or something to what you're thinking of?


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## Avic_Addict (Apr 9, 2007)

Halgeir said:


> Ok, I'm going to go for the heating lamps that you're talking about, but I'm unsure if I'm able to get my hands on one after all, and I'm a little unsure of we are on the same page...
> http://www.aquariuszoo.com/catalog/terra/product_info.php?cPath=53_170&products_id=2192
> with one of these... http://www.aquariuszoo.com/catalog/terra/product_info.php?cPath=53_204&products_id=2601
> This one, is probably the closest I'm getting, but I'm not sure if this is what you mean...
> ...


Hiya,

The bulb is perfect except being a little large - 100W is going to be very hot and probably only suitable if you have a massive tank, as your thermostat is going to be working overtime to control its output. If you can find the same bulb in a lower wattage, say 50 or 75W then that would be ideal. 
Try this - http://www.livefoods.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=373.
If you can't get a lower Wattage bulb then the 100W would be ok as long as you are extra careful to make sure the snake doesn't overheat.

Also the clamp lamp holder you found is fine as long as it has some kind of barrier such as a wire cover over the opening to stop the snake from being able to touch the bulb, I belive this one fits the clamp lamps - http://www.livefoods.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=733. 

Alternatively from the clamp lamps are the straightforward wire safety cages. I use these in all my vivs - http://www.livefoods.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=598 - as I find its better to allow the heat to fill one end of the viv rather than being directed down onto a single spot with a reflector. 

Don't forget that any heat bulbs will need to be run on dimmer thermostats. These can be a bit expensive but are very important. I recommend these - http://www.livefoods.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=153

:}


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## Halgeir (Apr 9, 2007)

Avic_Addict said:


> Hiya,
> 
> The bulb is perfect except being a little large - 100W is going to be very hot and probably only suitable if you have a massive tank, as your thermostat is going to be working overtime to control its output. If you can find the same bulb in a lower wattage, say 50 or 75W then that would be ideal.
> Try this - http://www.livefoods.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=373.
> ...


So the lamp is good, just need a lower watts bulb, ok. I'll check what I can find in my local pet stores. Thanks a lot for your help! I'll continue posting if I run into any trouble. Again, thanks.


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## jr47 (Apr 9, 2007)

Midnightrdr456 said:


> i actually wouldnt use wood if you can.  It can be used successfully but can also lead to problems (plus its harder to clean).  I forget the name of the material but you can purchase something and stores like Home Depot (they have those in Norway?) its very similar to plastic material, and they can cut it for you there to the sizes needed.
> 
> Wood will work but make sure its 100% treated or it can lead to problems.  Best of luck with your new addition when you get it!


       treated lumber is not a real good idea. unless you totally seal it which if your going to do that you dont need treated anyway. there are alot of chemicals in treated lumber that can cause respiration problems. also soak through the skin if the wood becomes damp. do a little research and you will find alot of info on this.
       also have say that heat is very important for digestion. regaurdless of what some want to think. the cooler the snake is kept the longer digestion will take. if they are to cool the last meal can actually start to decay before it is digested. can cause the snake to regurge its meal. or it can pass half digested. which in extreme cases can cause a snake to prolapse. im not saying that you cant keep a ball python at 70 degrees. just saying it puts an extra strain on the snake and can cause other problems. mine after a good meal would almost always curl up under the heat pads and stay for 3 or 4 days. given that i think obviously they prefere to be warm when they are digesting a good meal. after they would usually go back to the cool side of the cage. i think at least they should have an area where they can warm themselves if they want to.


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## Bear Foot Inc (Apr 9, 2007)

jr47 said:


> treated lumber is not a real good idea. unless you totally seal it which if your going to do that you dont need treated anyway. there are alot of chemicals in treated lumber that can cause respiration problems. also soak through the skin if the wood becomes damp. do a little research and you will find alot of info on this.
> also have say that heat is very important for digestion. regaurdless of what some want to think. the cooler the snake is kept the longer digestion will take. if they are to cool the last meal can actually start to decay before it is digested. can cause the snake to regurge its meal. or it can pass half digested. which in extreme cases can cause a snake to prolapse. im not saying that you cant keep a ball python at 70 degrees. just saying it puts an extra strain on the snake and can cause other problems. mine after a good meal would almost always curl up under the heat pads and stay for 3 or 4 days. given that i think obviously they prefere to be warm when they are digesting a good meal. after they would usually go back to the cool side of the cage. i think at least they should have an area where they can warm themselves if they want to.


 
I agree 1000% with that statement. Treated wood has arsenic in it so its a no no for live animals. And heat is the most important part.
~Samuel


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## Halgeir (Apr 10, 2007)

Hey guys.

I guess that when you say "treated wood" you mean wood that's been soaked or covered with some kind of chemicals? 
If so - I'm not going to use that anyway, I'm going to use "clapboards" (should be the right word, but not sure) that's not been tampered with.

As you mentioned - heat is important, and I'm going to use a infrared heating bulb to heat up the enclosure. As mentioned a couple of posts above.


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## Bear Foot Inc (Apr 10, 2007)

Sounds good!


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## Halgeir (Apr 14, 2007)

Hey guys and girls.

Thought I'd give a little update.
I've started building the enclosure with the measures 120x50x50 cm.
Havn't gotten that far, but here's a picture.
I've also bought the heatlamp.

When I started:






When I stopped:






There's still lots to do, but it's a start atleast


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## Bear Foot Inc (Apr 14, 2007)

Hey,
That looks very good. I'm sure your BP will love it!
~Samuel


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## Halgeir (Apr 20, 2007)

Hey guys and girls.

Been a while since I last posted, but now I'm almost done with the enclosure. I only miss one ventilation hole and place the lamp through the top.
Here's some pictures of the process.


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## Halgeir (Apr 21, 2007)

Last pictures, almost done with it:


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## SPJ (Apr 21, 2007)

I'll jump in and ad my 2 cents.
A small enclosure works best for babies. Too large and you stress out the animal. I use a rack setup for my BP's. Babies are in 15 qt tubs, sub adults and adult males are in 32 qt tubs and adult females and breeding pairs are in 41 qt tubs.

If using varnish, make sure there is absolutely no smell before placing the snake in the enclosure. Cypress mulch makes a great substrate since it holds heat and humidity well and can be easily spot cleaned.

Put a hide on the hot and cool sides. Keep the water dish on the cool side.
Give it a basking spot of 90-92 degrees with the cool side NO LOWER than 78-80 degrees. Radiant heat panels work great in wood enclosures. Flexwatt works great with plastice enclosures. Make sure you measure the temps with an accurate thermometer and have some type of control on the heating. A rheostat works well but you will have to adjust it based upon the rooms temps. A proportional thermostat is the best choice IMO.

Keep the humidity between 50-60% pre shed and during blue, mist them and raise the humidity to 80%.

Try to get it on frozen thawed food. Cheaper/easier/safer to feed than live. You can also order in bulk and never have to deal with a petstore for feeders again and pay the inflated prices.

Try and buy your BP from a reputable breeder. DO NOT get one at a petstore. Over the next month or so, all of the babies will be streaming in from Africa. These will get sold at just about every petstore in the country. The animals hatch and are packed in bags of 10 before they have their first shed or first meal and crated up onto a plane to the states.

Petstores are not equipped to properly care for these fresh captive hatched babies and neither is a first time keeper.

Get an established animal from a reputable breeder and you will not have any issues. Most of the time a BP and the shipping cost from a breeder is less than what a petstore charges.

Good luck and post any questions you have.

Oh and here are a few of my BP's.

Wild type (normal)






Pastel (co-dominant mutation)






Spider (dominant mutation)






Albino (simple recessive mutation)


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