# Anyone...



## Rydog (Nov 21, 2008)

Buying a Sc. viridicornis from Todd Gearheart? Personally I dont ave the money for that but I am planning on buying a Sc. angulata angulata. If you are buying one then you are required to post pics.


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## Comatose (Nov 21, 2008)

*Yup*

Will post as soon as soon as I have em.


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## SAn (Nov 22, 2008)

if its real his prices are way too much. I bet he is buying for like 5 dollars each and selling for 350 lol.. anyway reminds me of the market in the temple Jesus ruined. He could be the head-dealer there


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## Greg Pelka (Nov 22, 2008)

Does he have Steven agreement to use his photo ?


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## Nerri1029 (Nov 22, 2008)

SAn said:


> if its real his prices are way too much. I bet he is buying for like 5 dollars each and selling for 350 lol.. anyway reminds me of the market in the temple Jesus ruined. He could be the head-dealer there


Judge not lest ye be judged.

Keep the talk about the animals thanks.
There is a complete section for talking about dealers.


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## SAn (Nov 22, 2008)

Nerri1029 said:


> Judge not lest ye be judged.
> 
> Keep the talk about the animals thanks.
> There is a complete section for talking about dealers.


This is a relevant talk of a specific animal. Source is important as well as price.

And btw i am throwing the first stone because i am clean


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## xenesthis (Nov 23, 2008)

*SAn*

Looks like "SAn" has an axe to grind Nerri1029. His posts have a definite negative tone in every one.

About the critter in question, yes pic permission was secured.

Are we working together here for the benefit of the hobby and education aspect of it or is there a different agenda? Please tell.


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## SAn (Nov 23, 2008)

xenesthis said:


> Looks like "SAn" has an axe to grind Nerri1029. His posts have a definite negative tone in every one.
> 
> About the critter in question, yes pic permission was secured.
> 
> Are we working together here for the benefit of the hobby and education aspect of it or is there a different agenda? Please tell.


I m sorry i didnt know you are such a big fan of me and you read all my posts here  

As for the benefit of the hobby , sincerely i couldnt stop laughing when i read this statement from a dealer. 
I thought your job was making money, not benefiting the hobby?!
Because if you really care for that, you wouldnt ask for extraordinary prices(1000% profit) but you would help these species to go around. 

Btw i am not a USA resident so i am not affected at all by what you sell and i dont own any shop thus there is no agenda, but i really find it hypocritical to sell species (not only viridicornis or angulata) that cost 0,2-10 dollars depending on what it is, tenfold that.
And believe me i am very educated about the selling prices directly from the sources so.. 

ah yeah its the benefit of the hobby. :clap: :clap: 


(This is not a post about dealers but a reply about the benefit of our beloved scolopendrids)


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## xenesthis (Nov 23, 2008)

*Educational*

Again, as the moderator implies, make posts educational. Alias user names hides identities. A HUGE problem now-a-days on forums.


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## SAn (Nov 23, 2008)

My post is very educational if you read it properly. It educates about a very important part of the hobby, prices.
You on the other hand didnt comment on how exactly you educate or benefit.

Btw my name is Dimitris Fourlas (you wouldnt know me but some people in Europe do.) Not hiding anything here


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## Drachenjager (Nov 23, 2008)

I am gonna step in here and say i want one of them pedes lol cant afford it tho. I also believe that if these dealers don't make at least some profit, they wont be around. It takes money to import these things. I mean come on spend 6 grand on am import then have to wait for a couple years to sell it all. That is worth at least 100% markup IMO
I fully support the concept of capitalism. And Tod or anyone else has the right to ask what ever he or she wants for their product. If you think its too much, DON'T PAY IT!
anyway, Todd, those are great looking pedes man. Keep it up.


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## Comatose (Nov 23, 2008)

*For Profit?*

You mean that Todd isn't selling these animals for exactly the price he paid for them? He's actually trying to make money off of them? For shame...

I've been dealing with Todd for almost ten years, he's good people. And as to the price, I and any other South American pede fan will tell you that the price is more than fair for amazing animals like S. viridicornis, angulata, robusta and gigantea.


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## xenesthis (Nov 23, 2008)

*More*

I'd like to see more info posted about centipede sexing, courtship and unique behaviors observed, and of course, great photography of these incredible creatures. That is what the hobby needs right now.


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## SAn (Nov 23, 2008)

i dont mind if you or any other have no value of money and i never said anything of the character of Todd. But just this: angulata in europe is 1/3 the price. And Europe shipments go through usa. 
Then i asked a dealer how much an angulata costs. he told me he cant exactly say but its less than 5 dollars each. 



(just an info: Snake cargos cost 1000-1500 dollars   )

And Todd i agree with what the hobby needs. So make them available for people who make less than 2k a month(Still though you still didnt say anything about your profit and i dont really buy the sincere interest of the hobby)  

--Anyway my intention was mostly to "awaken" and inform about market prices, to usa residents so they know what they pay for especially when Europe costs that suppose to be more expensive are much cheaper.  If you guys feel ok with it then its fine. Personally i would have to beg in the streets if i had to pay a striped legs for more than 10 dollars lol--


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## xenesthis (Nov 23, 2008)

*Ryan wanted pics not this...*

Prices vary for all kinds of reasons. How about the European that brings stuff back in their luggage from South America and their residence country doesn't care what they bring in or if they violated a country's wildlife laws WITHOUT customs declaration, wildlife authority inspection and most of all the expensive air cargo costs???? Everybody knows that has been around in this hobby that is what goes down a lot in Europe and their pricing is reflective of it. In situations like that, they have no overhead. Nothing like getting out of paying $300 to $600 in air cargo costs plus other costs/fees. At that rate, it's all pure profit for individual.

The hobby has many forum threads about European v.s. American prices on inverts. It's like comparing apples to oranges due to major fact above. 

AB already has several threads of people arguing about that topic. It's been hashed out before and the conclusion every time is Europeans don't have to deal with our laws and that affects price - period.

If you think S. gigantea, S. galapagoensis and S. virdicornis should go for $5 to $20, that kind of thinking, well....I think it speaks for itself.
Everyone of your posts has a negative tone to it and personal. That has no positive consequence what-so-ever.

Ryan wanted pics. That is this thread's subject. Give the man his pics not this other stuff.


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## CFNSmok.PL (Nov 24, 2008)

Drachenjager said:


> I am gonna step in here and say i want one of them pedes lol cant afford it tho. I also believe that if these dealers don't make at least some profit, they wont be around. It takes money to import these things. I mean come on spend 6 grand on am import then have to wait for a couple years to sell it all. That is worth at least 100% markup IMO
> I fully support the concept of capitalism. And Tod or anyone else has the right to ask what ever he or she wants for their product. If you think its too much, DON'T PAY IT!
> anyway, Todd, those are great looking pedes man. Keep it up.


Agree 100%.


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## Rydog (Nov 24, 2008)

I have to agree with what Todd said, I started this thread because I was excited by the fact that viridicornis were finally in the US again NO MATTER WHAT PRICE. San your dealings or interactions with Todd were never up for discussion, if you have anything useful to contribute then by all means do so but leave your thoughts of the seller out of it. 

On a more relevant note, how many people are going to try and start captive breeding programs? i would love to buy some plings at a cheaper price. Anyhow, pics and updates are required


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## Mister Internet (Nov 24, 2008)

Nerri1029 said:


> Judge not lest ye be judged.
> 
> Keep the talk about the animals thanks.
> There is a complete section for talking about dealers.





SAn said:


> This is a relevant talk of a specific animal. Source is important as well as price.
> 
> And btw i am throwing the first stone because i am clean


You might be under the mistaken impression that Nerri's request was a "request".  It was an "order", and you need to follow it, please.  There will be no antagonistic discussion about dealer pricing, wholesaling, or anything like that.  It's counterproductive.  If you want to make them available at a different price, buy a shipment and re-sell them yourself.  If you think the price is too high to BUY them, then the solution is easy... don't buy any of his. But calling attention to the fact that he's selling them higher than he paid for them is ridiculous... all dealers do that, it's called "running a business".

I trust this will be the end of this particular line of antagonism.


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## xenesthis (Nov 24, 2008)

*CB pedes*

Ryan, 

>how many people are going to try and start captive breeding programs?

Notice that a vast majority of centipedes in the trade are wild-caught. What few offered that are listed as "CB" are mostly from WC gravid females that laid eggs after being imported. A few advanced pede keepers have some good theories on how to sex pedes, but not with a high degree of accuracy, and those opinions vary a lot too.

Until we can sex pedes from their external organs with some high degree of accuracy, our hobby will be highly dependent on WC imports. I support pede keepers that can help change that fact. It is one of the biggest challenges the centipede hobby has right now. We need to produce CB centipedes on a more regular basis especially for species that are poorly represented in our hobby.


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## Rydog (Nov 24, 2008)

I myself have never tried to breed centipedes but I know the difficulties. It seems like more of a guessing game than anything else, either they mate or they eat each other  . Anyways I understand what you are saying and I hope that you as well as any other potential buyers will do their best to perpetuate this species. After all, the next import could be 15 years away...


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## Galapoheros (Nov 24, 2008)

It's good to finally see these here in the US.  I'm very confident I could sex those pedes by their behavior and get babies from those things.  I think sexual behavior is basically the same with Scolopendra.  The bad thing is that I would only feel semi-comfortable getting 4 or 5 to have good odds of having at least one pair to give it a shot and can't get myself to do it.  But honestly, I was pacing back and forth for 30 minutes thinking of shooting for a few, hmm, don't know....  But I've also lost a little interest in them, still really cool to me, I'm just not as excited as I used to be about them.  The odds are really good that some are going to lay fertile eggs so some people will get lucky.  I think the demand is high, even if there aren't a whole lot of pede people in the US.  The angulatas are cool enough too.  I'm looking forward to pics of those when you get them in the mail.  Hey Todd could you get pics of the actual pedes you have sooner or later... I noticed there are different colors and I'm curious to know what the ones you have actually look like, no big deal, just curious.


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## Steven (Nov 24, 2008)

justGreg said:


> Does he have Steven agreement to use his photo ?


Hey Greg, yes he has  

and as i said to Todd also,
let us wait to see what type of pedes actually get in,
As many will agree,
exporters don't always send the stuff you expect (or hoping for).

As i remember, these "Pink and Black" have been imported in Europe too, but never reached the hobby-market, looking at it this way,
you US guys are even luckier then us poor Europeans who never had the chance in buying them (left alone what prices would be asked).


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## xenesthis (Nov 24, 2008)

*Jungle collecting*

The "pink and black" and "blue-footed" have been collected already. My collector is searching this week for an "all-black" species that he was tipped off too. That is what's interesting me. Possibly the S. gigantea "black form" that Steven thinks that 1995 pic in Orlando, FL of the guy holding a black tree trunk on his hands is. 

The U.S. hobby last had it's big explosion in new and exciting centipedes back in 1999. I'm working hard to change that. It's time for new and rare South American and Caribbean species to hit the hobby. In fact, it's overtime for that.


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## Steven (Nov 24, 2008)

xenesthis said:


> My collector is searching this week for an "all-black" species that he was tipped off too. That is what's interesting me.


not only you  :} 

please share pictures if ya do get your hands on that "all-black"


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## SAn (Nov 24, 2008)

Here is an angulata pic , from one i bought for 25 euro some months ago







As far as my knowledge goes these species dont exceed 20-21 cm and they get as robust as a dehaani. If someone knows better please inform me with facts.


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## xenesthis (Nov 24, 2008)

*Investor capital to make it all happen*

>I trust this will be the end of this particular line of antagonism.

Looks like somebody did not read that sentence.

Anyway, that's a small pede for $33 and probably no import/overhead costs. I guess that old saying applies "you get what you pay for".

Since we are comparing apples to oranges, I'm guessing when P. metallica first hit Europe, the expected price you wanted to pay was? $_____

Whatever the price you say, I'm sure that would offend the original investors of P. metallica, M. balfouri, etc. Europe might mainly be socialist in nature, but good ole America is still capitalist. If we dumb down the hobby to "spread the wealth", we will have a cheapening affect and just a "rose hair hobby". We would never have the investor capital to go after species like P. metallica, M. balfouri and even the rare Scolopendra spp. like S. virdicornis, S. galapagoensis and S. gigantea.

A great example was how the "Jurassic Giant Tarantulas" of Sao Tome Island came into the hobby. That was my idea. I coordinated it and the collector needed over 10K to do that trip to one of the most remote and difficult places on the earth to collect from, but as a result the hobby got to have the 9" monsters Hysterocrates scepticus and slighly smaller H. apostolicus and even Phonyeusa manicata. If we would have sold those spiders for $5 each, that collector would not have had any incentive to go through the rough trip that he did.

Somebody with an economics degree out there needs to write a short book for the hobby about this subject. Every year there seems to be a thread or two on AB that hobbyists with two different views tackle this subject without really understanding how it is we have such a great amount of diversity of species in the hobby with some really incredible colors and sizes of species that are disappearing from their habitats, not due to the pet trade, but habitat destruction. Importers/dealers/investors/advanced breeders need capitalism to work to continue to achieve this. Karl Marx's ideas does not need to enter our great hobby.


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## SAn (Nov 24, 2008)

Erm i stopped the discussion about what is being sold in USA. You can do whatever you want *really *

I posted a picture of an angulata as the topic title says and i posted the paidprice too. Didnt offend anyone, and i certainly did not say anything more about your prices.

Btw to add, the angulata in the picture is 18 cm. 
I never seen an angulata exceed 20-21 cm(and that is probably too much) and please if someone else knows
for sure different to inform me



(just to add for Todd because he seems interested, this is a legal pede with paid import costs from a legal store in europe. Also to define to you i dont mind what the prices are anymore in usa since i dont pay them. What i think logical for me and only me though is that if a pede costed the dealer 30 euro he cant sell me more than 90. Personal opinion. If you want more info pm me, since i dont want to be seen as a rule breaker)


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## xenesthis (Nov 24, 2008)

*Pics and info*

Dimitris,

Let's change the tone of this thread and go back to Ryan's original request. I like your shot of the S. a. angulata. Do you nice close up's of it's external reproductive organs?

Any shots of S. virdicornis, S. galapagoensis, S. gigantea (white-legged, orange-legged and black morphs)?

Can you share any unique behaviors that you've witnessed within the species? Thank you.


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## SAn (Nov 24, 2008)

I have 7 angulatas, i ll try breeding at Spring. So far i made no tries to sex them and it is not possible to do it.
They seem very docile i handled one , sluggish they act like ethmostigmus.

From my knowledge south american pedes, and ESPECIALLY galapagoensis, gigantea benefit from a heat pad at winter and prefer temperatures above 25C.
Mine is Stuck on the heatpad surface and the outside temp is 18-20C.

Also very very fast and agressive, any mating attemps need a large container.


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## xenesthis (Nov 24, 2008)

*above pic ID*

The above pic that you posted is what we called in the late 1990's out of Peru imports Scolopendra gigantea "robusta". In recent years, it has now been called  S. gigantea "orange-legged morph". What are Europeans calling this critter now?


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## SAn (Nov 24, 2008)

Some call it gigantea "robusta" even if the name is wrong because it is known by that name. Some other call it Galapagoensis orange morph.

Personally i call it gigantea, even though none of the above two seems to be proven (efforts by steven and peterbourbon)


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## Mister Internet (Nov 24, 2008)

xenesthis said:


> >I trust this will be the end of this particular line of antagonism.
> 
> Looks like somebody did not read that sentence.
> 
> ...


It cuts both ways, Todd.  I trust this is the end of THIS^^^ particular line of antagonism as well.  If you can't resisit the urge to go tit for tat, then just stop posting.  Or, I can lock this thread, it's up to the both of you.

Sheesh.

-MrI


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## xenesthis (Nov 24, 2008)

*info*

It's all good. Dimitris  and I talking offline and sharing Scolopendra info. The thread took a side track into old Euro-American hobby arguments over how the markets differ. 

Let's satisify Ryan's orginal request and provide pics and share info about S. viridicornis and other rarities now.

In addition, I'm doing my part by creating this page: 

www.tarantulaspiders.com/page/study-group-scolopendra-viridicornis-guyana-giant-pink-black-centipede


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## Comatose (Nov 24, 2008)

*More spare change*

When I receive my animals I will absolutely give CB a shot; that depending of course on what comes in and what quantities. 

Also, while I agree that the "all black" species is not viridicornis (as it was sold as in the US in the mid 90's) I'm also not sold on the black form of gigantea ID. Both "robusta" (orange/yellow form) and gigantea (yellow/white form) share physiological distinctions from one another, and the "black form" further delineates itself from both of the above. Just my two cents (and then some .

Regardless of what comes in and what taxonomical arguments arise, I am psyched to get some SA pedes.


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## peterbourbon (Nov 25, 2008)

SAn said:


> Some call it gigantea "robusta" even if the name is wrong because it is known by that name. Some other call it Galapagoensis orange morph.
> 
> Personally i call it gigantea, even though none of the above two seems to be proven (efforts by steven and peterbourbon)


Yes, it's right. Taxonomically it's between _Sc. gigantea_ and _Sc. galapagoensis_.

Nevertheless time has shown that this one seems to be accepted as a variation of _Scolopendra gigantea_ since i saw museum material that 100% matched to the "gig. robusta", labeled as _Scolopendra gigantea_.

To have a better understanding it might be nice to define it as subspecies or new species since it differs from the "real" _Scolopendra gigantea_ in sparsely hirsute antennomeres, thicker body and dorso-apical pretarsal/tarsal spurs. (I don't want to re-roll the discussion about the definition of a species - i only think it's "better to talk about" if both "gigantea" can be distincted in words). 

Anyone interested in taxonomic details feel free to PM - it's a bit "too much". 

Best Regards
Turgut


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## Rick McJimsey (Dec 27, 2008)

Well, I WAS going to get an S.subspinipes "Barbados" from Todd, already preordered the large subadult, and whadya know, he already increased the price, and I bet he doesn't even have them yet.


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## xenesthis (Dec 27, 2008)

*Jan. 7*

Rick,

The shipment arrives Jan. 7. A delay was incurred due to an import office being closed for the holiday period.

Preorder prices are usually lower and always honored. The new price reflects that the import is already collected and ready to ship.

Contact me directly for questions about the species or order.


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## pandinus (Dec 27, 2008)

S viridicornis is on the list of pedes i would like to buy someday when i have more money than sin lol. i barely ever see pics of them anymore, but i'll add to the clamour begging for pics. i love them, also, there used to be a pede called a black viridicornis, was that legit or does it go under a different name now? they are very pricey, but hopefully we can get enough to start a CB operation so that someday they will be common and cheap like they were before their native lands cut back export.

and just ever so slight deviation from topic, i met you in Carlsbad todd, & while i have never been able to afford your prices, i recognise that you are on the cutting edge of the hobby, and what you have to offer is 1st generation rare stuff, so i have never doubted your integrity. never stop doing what you do, as i'm sure many of us have aspiriations to be as successful as you.

back on topic, i would like to, as mentioned before see some pics of these viridicornis when they come in



John


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## xenesthis (Dec 27, 2008)

*RARE Scolopendra*

John,

I've never tried to be a generalist dealer that tries to carry everything. I've seen that business model in this trade and it never seems to work for anybody long-term. Catering to niches in the hobby works best for me. I'm not the rose hair and emperor scorpion dealer. I spend my resources and efforts bringing to the hobby new, rare or challenging to successfully breed species. This year, I'm especially concentrating on the Scolopendra genus. Based on some business moves that I've made recently, I'm confident that you will see several rare Scolopendra spp. on my lists this upcoming year.

S. virdicornis is awesome! Very colorful and contrasting. The black species you refer to is what many consider to be now S. gigantea "black form" and was last imported from Trinidad in 1996. S. galapagoensis was last imported in '98. Both came into the U.S. in handfuls. All three species are incredible beasts!


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## pandinus (Dec 28, 2008)

xenesthis said:


> John,
> 
> I've never tried to be a generalist dealer that tries to carry everything. I've seen that business model in this trade and it never seems to work for anybody long-term. Catering to niches in the hobby works best for me. I'm not the rose hair and emperor scorpion dealer. I spend my resources and efforts bringing to the hobby new, rare or challenging to successfully breed species. This year, I'm especially concentrating on the Scolopendra genus. Based on some business moves that I've made recently, I'm confident that you will see several rare Scolopendra spp. on my lists this upcoming year.
> 
> S. virdicornis is awesome! Very colorful and contrasting. The black species you refer to is what many consider to be now S. gigantea "black form" and was last imported from Trinidad in 1996. S. galapagoensis was last imported in '98. Both came into the U.S. in handfuls. All three species are incredible beasts!



exactly my point, you fulfill a very specific niche. i love what you do, and someday when i have more disposable income hopefully i shall partake, in the meantime, keep on keeping on and best wishes. with your resources i cant wait to see what wonders you produce in the scolopendra genus


John


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