# Mastigoproctus giganteus or "giant vinegaroon" breeding and care



## klawfran3 (Nov 14, 2013)

so these beautiful arachnids have just gotten my interest, and i was wondering how easy they are to keep. I researched all about their husbandry and care, but it seems as though the only information I could gather was either out dated or contradictory. does anyone here have a good caresheet for these guys? As I was researching them, I was wondering about their breeding. I would love to breed these critters, even though I have heard it is impossibly hard. however, I can find no information on how to actually even breed them that wasn't from 2002 and earlier. not a single report on them since then. so does anyone on this site know how to breed them, their life stages, and what to do. I would really love to breed them a lot, and I think it would be an amazing invert to start breeding. thank you all for you help- Nick


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## JohnDapiaoen (Nov 14, 2013)

I've worked alot with these particular vinegaroons. Breeding and rearing them was pretty easy IMO, you just need to know how they live in the wild naturally.They need to hibernate underground during the cold months so keep them on atleast 6" of substrate for adults; also during this time is when they molt or lay eggs so be careful not to disturb them. Some people get the urge to check on them because they disappear for months at a time but that will do more harm than good and may also result in death if they are disturbed while molting. 
here's my breeding report 
and I started a thread where I shared my success. Breeding takes a while from a couple of hours to almost a whole day.

feel free to ask me any more questions you may have. They grow pretty slowly, as they molt only once a year, I kept two vinelings from the first batch and they are still two molts (years) away from adultwood.

---------- Post added 11-13-2013 at 11:36 PM ----------

Also keep the substrate moist during the colder months so they can hold a burrow and dry it out when they emerge from hibernation.

Reactions: Award 1


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## The Snark (Nov 14, 2013)

What is their normal life span?


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## JohnDapiaoen (Nov 14, 2013)

Well that I actually don't know, they are really slow growing and the ones you usually buy are wild caught adults who's age is obviously unknown. I am; however, actually trying to figure that out by rearing the babies of the first batch. I had my first female vinegaroon live 6 years before dying of what I'm hoping was old age, and I know that the cbb juvies that I have been raising for 3 years have 2 or 3 more years to adult hood so I would *guess* around 10 or 12 years minimum but I don't truly know.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## The Snark (Nov 14, 2013)

So, if a person wants to seriously get into a care and breeding program, be prepared to dedicate a couple of decades or more? I'm crossing that movie off my to do list. I've barely got enough patience to boil water.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## klawfran3 (Nov 14, 2013)

JohnDapiaoen said:


> I've worked alot with these particular vinegaroons. Breeding and rearing them was pretty easy IMO, you just need to know how they live in the wild naturally.They need to hibernate underground during the cold months so keep them on atleast 6" of substrate for adults; also during this time is when they molt or lay eggs so be careful not to disturb them. Some people get the urge to check on them because they disappear for months at a time but that will do more harm than good and may also result in death if they are disturbed while molting.
> here's my breeding report
> and I started a thread where I shared my success. Breeding takes a while from a couple of hours to almost a whole day.
> 
> ...


do you feed them while they hibernate? at all? and if you don't, when do you start to?


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## JohnDapiaoen (Nov 14, 2013)

They don't feed when they get into hibernation mode. They gradually begin to slow down and suck at catching their prey as fall and winter set in. When they emerge, sometime in the spring is when they start to feed again.


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## klawfran3 (Nov 14, 2013)

Thank you John. I hate to be a bother though, but how big are the babies at 2nd instar? And how do you sex them as adults to breed them? Sorry about having so many questions. Thanks for your help- Nick


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## Galapoheros (Nov 14, 2013)

I have the same opinion John has basically, they are not hard at all, you just have to be patient, just backing it up there.  I've had some stay under with eggs/babies for 8-9 months over winter.  Just some speculation here, maybe some have babies in the Spring and come out earlier but I haven't seen that with the ones I've had here in Tx.  A lot like scorpions when it comes to the mom raising the babies.


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## Elytra and Antenna (Nov 14, 2013)

klawfran3 said:


> Thank you John. I hate to be a bother though, but how big are the babies at 2nd instar? And how do you sex them as adults to breed them? Sorry about having so many questions. Thanks for your help- Nick


 The adult males and females look quite a bit different. If you can't sex them they are immature or both females.
You mentioned not finding info on them post 2002, there is a small booklet from 2008 http://www.amazon.com/dp/0980240123 and a large hardcover text should be out later this year.

---------- Post added 11-14-2013 at 02:46 PM ----------




JohnDapiaoen said:


> I had my first female vinegaroon live 6 years before dying...


 Are you absolutely sure about this? Do you have documentation of the day you got it and the day it died? Studies on wild adults show they rarely live past three years and that is the normal maximum for captivity. I only know of a single specimen that survived five years as an adult.


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## klawfran3 (Nov 14, 2013)

Galapoheros said:


> I have the same opinion John has basically, they are not hard at all, you just have to be patient, just backing it up there.  I've had some stay under with eggs/babies for 8-9 months over winter.  Just some speculation here, maybe some have babies in the Spring and come out earlier but I haven't seen that with the ones I've had here in Tx.  A lot like scorpions when it comes to the mom raising the babies.


Do they need any supplemental heat?


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## JohnDapiaoen (Nov 14, 2013)

klawfran3 said:


> Thank you John. I hate to be a bother though, but how big are the babies at 2nd instar? And how do you sex them as adults to breed them? Sorry about having so many questions. Thanks for your help- Nick


Not a bother at all. without the tail and whips they are around 1" at 2nd instar. Adults are pretty simple to tell apart males would have longer and bigger claws. If you're still not sure about it's sex look at this template 



Elytra and Antenna said:


> Are you absolutely sure about this? Do you have documentation of the day you got it and the day it died? Studies on wild adults show they rarely live past three years and that is the normal maximum for captivity. I only know of a single specimen that survived five years as an adult.


yeah I'm sure and I no I didn't document it cause I didn't think that it was abnormal. Three years? can you tell me of how you came of this information? 



klawfran3 said:


> Do they need any supplemental heat?


if you're in California then no. if you're comfortable with the temps in the room they are in then they should be too.


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## Elytra and Antenna (Nov 15, 2013)

JohnDapiaoen said:


> yeah I'm sure and I no I didn't document it cause I didn't think that it was abnormal. Three years? can you tell me of how you came of this information?


 First, when I say documentation I was not asking for irrefutable evidence, I only meant did you happen to take a photo around the time you first got it or write something about it here on the forum or any other method by which you are certain you did not accidentally add on a year or two. Second, most of the research in this area comes in the way of research PDFs that are difficult to find such as Schmidt's 2003 SASI presentation but the chapter on vinegaroons in the following text summarizes known longevity data http://www.amazon.com/Encyclopedia-Insects-Second-Edition-Vincent/dp/0123741440


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## klawfran3 (Nov 16, 2013)

Can you walk me through mating? What do I do exactly? Do I introduce the male to the female, or the other way around? And I heard the mating behavior is aggressive too? What happens when they mate, and how long does it take? Sorry I'm asking so many questions. I'm just worried that we could lose the male and the whole project is trashed. Thanks for your help.


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## JohnDapiaoen (Nov 17, 2013)

Sounds to me like you didn't do much research. Look HERE . jmugleston pretty much summed up what suppose to happen during mating. With all arachnids I try to breed it's always introduce the male to the female. If the female shows aggression toward the male; e.i, she rushes at him, keep a pencil (eraser side down) or feeder tongs/tweezers between them. This will give the male an advantage to grab her first pair of legs(the feelers).

---------- Post added 11-17-2013 at 05:01 PM ----------




Elytra and Antenna said:


> First, when I say documentation I was not asking for irrefutable evidence, I only meant did you happen to take a photo around the time you first got it or write something about it here on the forum or any other method by which you are certain you did not accidentally add on a year or two. Second, most of the research in this area comes in the way of research PDFs that are difficult to find such as Schmidt's 2003 SASI presentation but the chapter on vinegaroons in the following text summarizes known longevity data http://www.amazon.com/Encyclopedia-Insects-Second-Edition-Vincent/dp/0123741440


OK but that would still be a no. Maybe I'll look into that book someday, but I'm really just wondering how they kept and cared for their test group of vinegaroons.


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## klawfran3 (Nov 17, 2013)

JohnDapiaoen said:


> Sounds to me like you didn't do much research. Look HERE . jmugleston pretty much summed up what suppose to happen during mating. With all arachnids I try to breed it's always introduce the male to the female. If the female shows aggression toward the male; e.i, she rushes at him, keep a pencil (eraser side down) or feeder tongs/tweezers between them. This will give the male an advantage to grab her first pair of legs(the feelers).
> 
> ---------- Post added 11-17-2013 at 05:01 PM ----------
> 
> ...


thank you so much for all your help. I think that should be all I need to know now. I'm going to order a few babies and raise them, and hopefully mate in the future. thanks John- Nick


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## Elytra and Antenna (Nov 18, 2013)

JohnDapiaoen said:


> OK but that would still be a no. Maybe I'll look into that book someday, but I'm really just wondering how they kept and cared for their test group of vinegaroons.


 How did nature keep them? I already told you some studies relate to wild animals. Adults of our native species are not eaten but simply die of old age in the field. Also, I know a number of keepers who've kept various vinegaroons, some keepers with a few decades experience, including myself and five years is the maximum after maturity that has been reached. I have heard of one longer report but like yours it didn't have even the barest of evidence and likely related to faulty memory or accidental embellishment.


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## TheSanguineSaint (Oct 26, 2017)

JohnDapiaoen said:


> I've worked alot with these particular vinegaroons. Breeding and rearing them was pretty easy IMO, you just need to know how they live in the wild naturally.They need to hibernate underground during the cold months so keep them on atleast 6" of substrate for adults; also during this time is when they molt or lay eggs so be careful not to disturb them. Some people get the urge to check on them because they disappear for months at a time but that will do more harm than good and may also result in death if they are disturbed while molting.
> here's my breeding report
> and I started a thread where I shared my success. Breeding takes a while from a couple of hours to almost a whole day.
> 
> ...


I know this was ages ago but I am trying to learn as much as  I can about these sweeties and the whole breeding  process. TY


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## JenniePennie (Jul 16, 2020)

I realize this is an old thread, but I'm wondering if I could get some input. I picked up a mature female in January 2020 at the PNW expo. She was part of a breeding pair, though I opted not to take both. The person I got her from did not tell me when last she had been paired. But I think she may be gravid. 

I've kept her in a clear box, the size of a small shoe box. I'd say 9"x7"x4" ish, filled 2/3 with moist substrate. Reading over this, I can see I need to make her a larger enclosure. I'll do that in the morning.

She's not been one to burrow consistently. She burrowed initially, but around March, she surfaced and rarely burrows now. She will move substrate all day, forming a burrow. But she won't stay in it. The next day, she fills it back up with substrate only to start the process over again the next day. She refused to keep a water dish. I fill it about every other day. She fills it with substrate as soon as I fill it with water. She has a hide, which she fills with substrate and then buries. 

She's never had much of an appetite, though I offer her red runners once or twice a week. She only recently actually started to accept my offerings consistently. Up until a couple weeks ago, she would eat maybe once or twice a month. 

Aside from giving her a larger enclosure, are there any changes I should make?


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## basin79 (Jul 16, 2020)

JenniePennie said:


> I realize this is an old thread, but I'm wondering if I could get some input. I picked up a mature female in January 2020 at the PNW expo. She was part of a breeding pair, though I opted not to take both. The person I got her from did not tell me when last she had been paired. But I think she may be gravid.
> 
> I've kept her in a clear box, the size of a small shoe box. I'd say 9"x7"x4" ish, filled 2/3 with moist substrate. Reading over this, I can see I need to make her a larger enclosure. I'll do that in the morning.
> 
> ...


She won't burrow because age can't in that depth of substrate. But even with deep sub my lass only burrows when she has her long nap in winter. When she emerges months later she just fills in the chamber and burrow and stays under her corbark.


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