# Parabuthus granulatus



## carpe scorpio (Aug 7, 2004)

If P. transvaalicus is readily imported, why not P. granulatus?, it's a handsome scorpion.


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## errit (Aug 7, 2004)

Yeah. You only hear about P. Transvaalicus. While P. Granulatus is by far the most venemous of parabuthus sp. it is a nice and also pretty large scorpion. I believe they also come in different color variations.


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## skinheaddave (Aug 7, 2004)

carpe scorpio said:
			
		

> If P. transvaalicus is readily imported, why not P. granulatus?, it's a handsome scorpion.


I will provide a general answer, as this type of question gets asked all the time.  In order for a scorpion to be regularily available in the pet trade, it must:

- exist in a country that allows export or from which it is easy to smuggle things to a country that allows export.
- exist in a wide enough area in large enough numbers that it can be found.
- usually it must be found as a byproduct of the hunt for more profitable animals (birds, reptiles etc.) since the profit on scorpions is not enough to make it worthwhile to the hunter, middle-men etc.
- must not have any myths surrounding it or be overly dangerous if it is to be widely collected  
- must be indistinct enough to avoid the eye of the importer but distinct enough that it doesn't get sold as a more common species and get kept by someone who doesn't know any better

Cheers,
Dave


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## carpe scorpio (Aug 7, 2004)

Dave, these are all certainly valid points, makes sense. I would suppose that captive breeding might be the best option. A scorpion with such needle-like chela and beautifully built metasoma, belongs in the hobby.


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## carpe scorpio (Aug 8, 2004)

This whole subject makes me curious as to why A. crassicauda used to be available, and now isn't. Since the birth of the hobby, the species that have been for sale are still for sale and many wonderful additional species have been imported, but this one has dried up. They first appeared around 1986 or so, about the same time as Leiurus quinquestriatus. Leiurus is still here, I wonder if politics had anything to do with this.


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## carpe scorpio (Aug 30, 2004)

This is beautiful.  http://www.museums.org.za/bio/images/scorpions/pbgran1.jpg


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## Kaos (Aug 31, 2004)

It's indeed a beautifull scorpion, Carpe. I would love to get my hands on one or two, one of each sex. Hmm.... I think i'm becoming a addict.....


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## errit (Aug 31, 2004)

skinheaddave said:
			
		

> I will provide a general answer, as this type of question gets asked all the time.  In order for a scorpion to be regularily available in the pet trade, it must:
> 
> - exist in a country that allows export or from which it is easy to smuggle things to a country that allows export.
> - exist in a wide enough area in large enough numbers that it can be found.
> ...


But actually i still don't understand why p. transvaalicus is imported and p. granulatus isn't. because i believe that P. granulatus qualifies for these rules just like P. transvaalicus. They come from the same countries, are both pretty venemous. they are both dominant species and can be found plenty. actually they live aside eachother  
Cheers,
Dave[/QUOTE]


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## skinheaddave (Aug 31, 2004)

While there is overlap in their range, it should be noticed that P.granulatus does not stray too far into either Zimbabwe or Mozambique.  Check out the number of specimens you get that range through Tanzania and things should start to get clearer. 

Cheers,
Dave


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## errit (Aug 31, 2004)

According to Scorpions of south africa P. Granulatus has a wider range. its lives in entirely south cental and soutwest of southern africa. And Parabuthus Transvaalicus lives mainly in central east of southern africa. Their habitat overlap eachother in south africa, botswana and Zambia. And indeed not in Mozambique. but maybe  a little in zimbabwe.


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## carpe scorpio (Aug 31, 2004)

skinheaddave said:
			
		

> While there is overlap in their range, it should be noticed that P.granulatus does not stray too far into either Zimbabwe or Mozambique.  Check out the number of specimens you get that range through Tanzania and things should start to get clearer.
> 
> Cheers,
> Dave


So, does availability have more to do with what countries are or aren't friendly with the west, or is it more a matter of where the African pet exporters live?.


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## skinheaddave (Aug 31, 2004)

carpe scorpio said:
			
		

> So, does availability have more to do with what countries are or aren't friendly with the west, or is it more a matter of where the African pet exporters live?.


It isn't a friendly/not friendly thing.  South Africa does not allow exports.  Period.  Thus, overlapping ranges don't matter a hell of a lot if exports aren't allowed.  A large number of exports come out of Tanzania and this includes animals that were smuggled from other countries.  I'm not sure of the export laws of some of the other countries, but I suspect that Namibia and Botswana have followed South African lead on this one.  That leaves only a small overlapping portion on Zimbabwe (not sure about their export situation, but for some reason I think it is legal  -- may have read that soemwhere).  



> According to Scorpions of south africa P. Granulatus has a wider range.


Yeah, I have the book too.  See my response to Carpe.

Cheers,
Dave


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## carpe scorpio (Aug 31, 2004)

Sorry Dave, I suppose I am ranting out of frustration, maybe if enough in-country smuggling continues there might be positive results someday.


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## Ythier (Sep 1, 2004)

skinheaddave said:
			
		

> South Africa does not allow exports.


Hi,
In France we receive (legally) each year many imports directly from South Africa...
Greetings,
Eric


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## Nazgul (Sep 1, 2004)

Hi Eric,

really? As far as I know South Africa doesn´t really allow exports. Maybe the imports to France are from Southern Africa but not from the State South Africa?

Greetings
Alex


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## Ythier (Sep 1, 2004)

No according to the petshop the exporter is from northeast (Pretoria) of South Africa, the Uroplectes you have comes from him.
Greetings,
Eric


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## skinheaddave (Sep 1, 2004)

Eric,

If you could get details on permits etc. it would be greatly appreciated.   Everything I have ever read suggests it is a no-go so if it is possible to legally export that would be fantastic.

Cheers,
Dave


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## Nazgul (Sep 1, 2004)

Hi, 

very interesting, indeed. I was always Dave´s opinion but can´t remember where I read or heard it. Maybe there are different regulations according vertebrates and invertebrates?

Greetings
Alex


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## carpe scorpio (Sep 1, 2004)

If they could in fact be brought into the U.S. and Canada, that would be wonderful. I can still remember how thrilled I was to see L. quinquestriatus in a petshop. P. granulatus would be a very welcome addition to the hobby.


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## skinheaddave (Sep 1, 2004)

carpe scorpio said:
			
		

> If they could in fact be brought into the U.S.


You would still need a valid USFWS import/export license to get it into the US.

Cheers,
Dave


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## carpe scorpio (Sep 1, 2004)

skinheaddave said:
			
		

> You would still need a valid USFWS import/export license to get it into the US.
> 
> Cheers,
> Dave


I know, It would be easier for someone already in the business of bringing arachnids to our continent, as they should already have the needed liscenses. What company does the largest volume of importation?.


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## fusion121 (Sep 1, 2004)

Ythier said:
			
		

> No according to the petshop the exporter is from northeast (Pretoria) of South Africa, the Uroplectes you have comes from him.
> Greetings,
> Eric


If its possible it would be excellent, I'd love to get some breeding pairs of some of the south african Opistophthalmus species. The problem I think is that many of the ranges (which are often surprisingly small) of the most interesting species are within nature reserves/ national parks where collection is definitely illegal.


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## Nazgul (Sep 30, 2004)

Hi,

I found out that it seems to be legal to export invertebrates from South-Africa. The export of vertebrates seems to be allowed if the animals are cb. Unfortunately I found no real proof of this. But on the page www.cites.org one can look in the export statistics of CITES protected animals for all member countries. In 2003 two protected species (vertevbrates) were exported from South-Africa, one species protected by Appendix II and one even Appendix I. If the export of a highly endangered vertebrate species is allowed even if it´s cb, the export of invertebrates is most likely legal I guess.

Greetings
Alex


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## Kaos (Sep 30, 2004)

I believe to have read on Jonathan Leemings page that export of invertebrates is illegal. I'm not 100% sure.


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## Kaos (Sep 30, 2004)

Hi!
Look here: http://www.scorpions.co.za/spidclub.asp
 If you look under The Pet Trade it says the following: "Any commercial dealing in invertebrates is illegal"


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