# Deformed T. blondi fangs, again....



## Tarangela (May 10, 2007)

So what is it w/ me and T. blondi spiders???

I mean, I have had 3.  One, I had from a sling, for 5 years, and she died of heart problems, according to the autopsy.  Right after a molt.  Then, I had another I had bought at about 4-5" size, and it was doing well, until it had a bad molt, and lost most of it's fangs.  I hand fed it for 7-8 months, and it died on me   I have pics of that in an old thread on here, btw.

NOW, I have Raggs, she to is female, and had a molt yesterday.  Well, everything looked good, until I seen her fangs.  They looked like a deformed mess.  I am very sad about it, b/c I know what lies down this road.  I bet I will have to hand feed her eventually.  I am going to try to attach pics of her deformed fangs, and I hope to get some opinions on what I should do 

Thanks to you all.....


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## Derrick (May 10, 2007)

I dont know if this is your problem but Ive learned along the way to make sure you dont feed your feeder insects calcium.  Ive heard it may cause molt problems.  I didnt have any bad experiences before I switched cricket food to the non-calcium recipe.:? :?


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## Tarangela (May 10, 2007)

I think it may be a feeder problem w/ mice.  I thought about that last night.  I never had these molt problems, until I started feeding my blondis mice.  Does that make any sense?

I think if it was the food that I fed to my crickets, I would see it in all my spiders.  I have only had this problem w/ my blondis.  And they are the only one I feed live mice.


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## ShadowBlade (May 10, 2007)

Tarangela said:


> And they are the only one I feed live mice.


That may indeed be the problem. There are reports of feeding only mice can cause molting problems.

Man that must suck...

-Sean


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## Tarangela (May 10, 2007)

It is sad, now that I think about it   I will not be feeding live mice to any of my spiders anymore.  Let this be a warning to all of you that feed live mice.

I hope I don't lose her.  I don't mind picking her up to hand feed, and will if I have to.  I will give her a month to recoup.


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## TheDarkFinder (May 10, 2007)

I'm going out on a limb here but they need you can not just keep them on dry substrate, water dish or not. You know that. If it is molting in that dry of dirt then I would not doubt you are having problems, in fact begging for them. I know the response this is going to bring, "I have T blondi for 37 years and keep them on nothing but driest conditions and no dish and never had a problem." I have heard it before. 

Just thought I would give you my opinion.


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## Talkenlate04 (May 10, 2007)

I'll have to agree with dark. All my blondi's are in setups that are very moist borderline swamps that are allowed to dry out somewhat but never really dry then more water is added. And this is done with a water dish as well.
Their natural habitat is one where water can fall from the sky every day in some amount.

I have never had to do the hand feeding deal and I hope I dont ever have to but that looks like thats what you might be doing for a while.


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## ballpython2 (May 10, 2007)

Tarangela said:


> It is sad, now that I think about it   I will not be feeding live mice to any of my spiders anymore.  Let this be a warning to all of you that feed live mice.
> 
> I hope I don't lose her.  I don't mind picking her up to hand feed, and will if I have to.  I will give her a month to recoup.


This is just a thought so I could be wrong...all of your T blondis  including the one in this post and the  other ones that have died..have you gotten them all from the same breeder/seller?.....Maybe its something with their stock...only  a thought


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## Tarangela (May 10, 2007)

TheDarkFinder said:


> I'm going out on a limb here but they need you can not just keep them on dry substrate, water dish or not. You know that. If it is molting in that dry of dirt then I would not doubt you are having problems, in fact begging for them. I know the response this is going to bring, "I have T blondi for 37 years and keep them on nothing but driest conditions and no dish and never had a problem." I have heard it before.
> 
> Just thought I would give you my opinion.



I don't mind opinions at all, and everyone has their own   I have been keeping spiders for over 10 years now, and never had a problem w/ the substrate.  I use the coco fiber, bed-a-beast stuff.  My blondis were molting fine, until I added mice to their diet   And she never had a bad molt until I fed her those.  Same w/ my other blondis.  I have learned a lesson though.

Thanks for you post


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## Talkenlate04 (May 10, 2007)

ballpython2 said:


> This is just a thought so I could be wrong...all of your T blondis  including the one in this post and the  other ones that have died..have you gotten them all from the same breeder/seller?.....Maybe its something with their stock...only  a thought


I dont think stock from a breeder has anything to do with it. This is a combo of not enough moisture in the tank and not enough variety in the diet of the T. Feeding any one thing like mice to a T can be harmful over time. And given the fact that this has affected more then one T and started when the mice became the constant diet I think you can point the finger there.


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## Tarangela (May 10, 2007)

ballpython2 said:


> This is just a thought so I could be wrong...all of your T blondis  including the one in this post and the  other ones that have died..have you gotten them all from the same breeder/seller?.....Maybe its something with their stock...only  a thought



They all came from different breeders.

The first was from Swifts, the second was Reptile Supply, the one I have now came from a personal sale online.  Good thought though.


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## Taceas (May 10, 2007)

That's sucks. =(

I've not been all that impressed with Blondi's anyway, they're just a big brown itchy spider, but they also seem more prone to problems than any other tarantula that I've heard of (maybe short of Avic's).

But I'd always heard feeding high calcium food, which mice would be compared to an insect, causes molting problems. None of mine have problems, then again all mine eat are roaches. I leave the rodent feeding to my snakes, as I see no real purpose to wasting them with a tarantula.


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## Tarangela (May 10, 2007)

talkenlate04 said:


> I dont think stock from a breeder has anything to do with it. This is a combo of not enough moisture in the tank and not enough variety in the diet of the T. Feeding any one thing like mice to a T can be harmful over time. And given the fact that this has affected more then one T and started when the mice became the constant diet I think you can point the finger there.



Mice were never the constant diet.  They were treats, maybe every other month.  Crickets were the staple.


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## TheDarkFinder (May 10, 2007)

Some one please link the article that states that it is mice/calcium alone that causes molting problems. Please post that link, because I have only heard, I know a friend that says....I read somewhere....I think it is...Mice are bad...

Not once have a seen, Dr (place name here) has test 40 T blondi's from the same sack for molting problems due to mice/calcium. In this experiment, Dr. (place name here) had an test group and a control group which where kept in the same conditions...In testing...He/she found that the margin of error is less then the standard deviation provided by this study...there for feed extra calcium to the tarantula can cause massive problems.


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## Talkenlate04 (May 10, 2007)

Tarangela said:


> Mice were never the constant diet.  They were treats, maybe every other month.  Crickets were the staple.


Think about how many crickets need to be eaten to equal the mass of a mouse though. Over all I would wager she was eating more mouse guts then cricket. 

Anywho I hope she makes it through, she may try to have a corrective molt, and you might have to hand feed her. But ither way its going to be hard for a while. (fingers crossed for you)


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## ballpython2 (May 10, 2007)

talkenlate04 said:


> and not enough variety in the diet of the T.


All I feed to my T is crickets...This doesn't count when my T's staple diet is crickets because they are not verterbrae prey correct?


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## Talkenlate04 (May 10, 2007)

TheDarkFinder said:


> Some one please link the article that states that it is mice/calcium alone that causes molting problems. Please post that link, because I have only heard, I know a friend that says....I read somewhere....I think it is...Mice are bad...
> 
> Not once have a seen, Dr (place name here) has test 40 T blondi's from the same sack for molting problems due to mice/calcium. In this experiment, Dr. (place name here) had an test group and a control group which where kept in the same conditions...In testing...He/she found that the margin of error is less then the standard deviation provided by this study...there for feed extra calcium to the tarantula can cause massive problems.


I dont think anyone has done a "study" per say. But between hobbiest this has over time become something to point the finger at. And someday we might see that its just that, finger pointing. Maybe there is no link at all. But I personally think its something to think about and avoid doing. I dont feed mice and never had a molt problem with a Blondi, (knocking on wood)
I dont know that I am going to buy 100 blondi and test all them, but hey I might. 


Mice/ mealworms/ superworm, are known to have high fat/ calcium in them and I would assume that like with everything else that if you eat just that over and over your going to get fat or sick and have health issues. I dont see why that would be any different with a T. Since they are much smaller maybe the rates of consumption to cause such problems is much less then other creatures.

( all guesses and my thoughts......)


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## Lorgakor (May 10, 2007)

I really don't see how lack of a moist substrate would cause deformed fangs. It could cause the spider to get stuck in a moult, though that is doubtful to me as well as it is internal hydration that is more important when it comes to moulting.

I also don't see how a mouse every other month would be the cause, there are people that feed theirs nothing but mice and don't have problems. Although the fact that there were no problems before mice were introduced is certainly strange. 

I think there needs to be some research done on this species before we can speculate as to the causes of bad moults like this. It would be nice to see experiments on feeding mice vs. roaches or crickets and dry vs. moist substrate from sling to adult. 

I'd try it but I can't even get near this species without breaking out into hives for two weeks! 

Good luck with her, I hope you are able to feed her enough to get her to her next moult.


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## Tarangela (May 10, 2007)

If she dies, I am going to buy another T. blondi, as a sling only though.  And
I will NOT feed it mice.  If it takes 10 years, I am going to see if just feeding it crickets, if the same problems occur.

It's mostly been a fang issue.  It's very sad.  I have hand fed before, it's no fun, but if it keeps her alive, I will do it.


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## P. Novak (May 10, 2007)

Maybe mice should be removed from it's diet completely? It seems as though that may need to be the case, since you have problems with T.blondis and their fangs. 

Also, like others said, moisten the substrate a bit.


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## P. Novak (May 10, 2007)

Tarangela said:


> If she dies, I am going to buy another T. blondi, as a sling only though.  And
> I will NOT feed it mice.  If it takes 10 years, I am going to see if just feeding it crickets, if the same problems occur.
> 
> It's mostly been a fang issue.  It's very sad.  I have hand fed before, it's no fun, but if it keeps her alive, I will do it.


You can always feed them some huge roach species that will equal the size of a mouse.

Oh, and good luck!


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## cacoseraph (May 10, 2007)

Lorgakor said:


> I really don't see how lack of a moist substrate would cause deformed fangs. It could cause the spider to get stuck in a moult, though that is doubtful to me as well as it is internal hydration that is more important when it comes to moulting.
> 
> I also don't see how a mouse every other month would be the cause, there are people that feed theirs nothing but mice and don't have problems. Although the fact that there were no problems before mice were introduced is certainly strange.
> 
> ...


i agree.  all the parts of the spider that are regenerable are forming for virtually the whole intermolt period, as far as i understand from my readings.  molting on dry sub (which yes, dark, many many many of my spiders have done with no problem) would not cause the twisted fangs unless it was a direct result of the old exo sticking to them... which the pics kind of lead me to think is not the case. plus, damn, aside from some toothing those *should* be the easiest bits to shed... they are highly tapering cones!



Novak said:


> You can always feed them some huge roach species that will equal the size of a mouse.
> 
> Oh, and good luck!


i did. they are called mad hissers =P


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## WyvernsLair (May 10, 2007)

cacoseraph said:


> i did. they are called mad hissers =P


Madagascar hissers really are not good for tarantulas. Their armor is extremely tough and likely to cause more problems for the T than not. There is no guarantee you can always have one on hand that just molted and is soft enough still to feed to the spider. They also are slow to grow. Can take 2 years to reach full adult size. Only the babies are soft enough to really feed to spiders, but then to do that things come full circle... they would be much smaller and less meat than a cricket! 

I know... I tried raising them for my spiders. Heck even the bug eating lizards didn't want them.  The only thing that seemed to love/enjoy and have the jaws to deal with those monster roaches were savannah monitors. I dumped my mad roach colony on a friend who ran a reptile rescue.  Her sav enjoyed the present. 

Have another friend who recently got into the Lobster roaches.  She sent me a couple dozen as a starter colony last October. As adults, they are a little larger than crickets too so that's a pro.  They are softer bodied must like crickets - no hard armor like hissers. They breed faster than the hissers too. The bug eating lizards I have that would avoid the hissers - they eat the lobsters up like candy.  Have also been trying them on a Rose Hair T at work..  he too enjoys them.  The down side.. They can climb glass just like the mad hissers  (annoying) and the newborn babies are smaller than newborn hissers too so you really need some fiberglass/soft window screen as a precautionary barrier between lid and tank.  My little colony has over 1,000 at the moment living in a large plastic critter keeper.. finally got to the population explosion point.  I really have not had any trouble keeping them from running out of the cage. Usually when I go into it, they all know it's feeding time and are running for the food dishes lol. Occasionally one might try me, but when I tap them on the head, they run back down. They may not be much to look at but they do have a bit of an odd personality of sorts....for roaches.  They are not long-lived like hissers either.

However, if you really need/want a large 2 inch roach like a hisser without the cons of a hisser.. I think there is a death head roach available. I remember keeping some 15 years ago at work... just can't remember the name of them other than we called them deathheads due to a mark on the head.  I do seem to remember that they could NOT climb glass .... so that would be a plus.  The only bad thing I ever remembered about them was that they moved pretty fast and had a tendency to stink when over crowded. When cleaning the colony, I found that sifting through the tank debris for babies was a nice pleasant though very long mind-numbing job. LOL.


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## cacoseraph (May 10, 2007)

heh, the hissers have been working fine for me for a couple few years now. haven't found a bug of mine yet that doesn't like them. granted, i head crush sub/adults cuz their defensive spines are no joke

the long gestation/maturation period simply means you need to start with a lot of adults or not feed from your colony until it is in full bloom. i wouldn't suggest them as your staple species, but they are excellent treats.

i typically feed a large hisser to gravid females or to females i am about to breed that i want to bulk up quickly.





back to the blondi...  i would be inclined to think it is not *just* feeding it mice from time to time... else there would be a super freakin clear correlation. i expect that the calcium thingy might be part of the cause, but certainly not the whole cause.

if i ever breed this species i'm fully down to do some experiments


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## Talkenlate04 (May 10, 2007)

Hydration could play a factor as well. I have seen a few keepers I know forget to fill the water from time to time and with species like blondi that might result in deyhdration and parts getting stuck when molting.


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## KingBowser (May 10, 2007)

Has a study ever been done on the diet of wild T. blondi? I feed both of my girls a variety of things...roaches, crickets, mice, anoles, geckos, whatever. I've been told by more than one person that a blondi needs to eat hearty meals to achieve a large size. So far I've found no problems, but I haven't had them for years, either.


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## Talkenlate04 (May 10, 2007)

No specific study that I know of. But they can get a general idea of what they eat by what is available to them in that habitat.


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## cacoseraph (May 10, 2007)

talkenlate04 said:


> No specific study that I know of. But they can get a general idea of what they eat by what is available to them in that habitat.


heh, so roughly... everything?


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## B.L. (May 10, 2007)

Mine is only at the stage where it can eat crickets. I was planning of feeding only insects to mine an maybe the occasional anole once or twice a year to impress friends. When I feed crickets if she doesn't imediatly eat them I take them out. Plus I'd be too worried about the mouse biting the T and injuring it.  Those suckers can draw blood.


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## Talkenlate04 (May 10, 2007)

cacoseraph said:


> heh, so roughly... everything?


Yep anything that wanders into their field of glory. I cant imagine them ignoring any prey they could take down if they were hungry.


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## WyvernsLair (May 10, 2007)

My T. blondi never had any molt problems or deformities. I'd flood half the tank once a week or so, but always let it dry out completely for a couple days before flooding again.  Diet was nothing but crickets (of course 12-18 at a time). The only time he ever got anything other than crickets was one summer when the 17-year periodical cicada brood in our area emerged. They were everywhere and easy to catch (unlike the annual dog-day cicadas). Certainly no sense in letting them go to waste. A lot of animals were scrambling around for the once in a life-time treat.  Nothing funnier than a T blondi prancing around a tank with 2 cicadas.. each speared by a fang.  Man was he pissed having to go back to crickets when the cicadas were finally all gone LOL. Alas, the poor ole boy was a male and of course not destined for a long prosperous life. If I remember rightly, after he matured he lived almost 9 months.


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## Tarangela (May 11, 2007)

Thanks for all of the replies!!

I have fed her hissing roaches before, they are just hard to get around here.
I live an hour away from pet stores, so I have to make an extra trip to get crickets anyway.  

It just seems to point at mice feedings.  As for the mice biting her, I always flick them in the head a bit, it causes them to convulse...and then put them in.  She grabs them, and has never been bitten.

I just hope she can pull through this.  ALL of her body came out of the molt really well, so I do not think this is a substrate issue....


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## Tim St. (May 11, 2007)

This might be a really stupid question but where your T's CB or WC? if CB maybe inbreeding is a factor? small gene pool, most deformitys are caused by this.


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## Talkenlate04 (May 11, 2007)

Think of it this way...... when a mature female has babies, they disperse but not that far. So when a male matures from that clutch of babies, why wouldent the male mate with his mother? Or other sisters of that mother that are in the area. I think this type of breeding has to  happen a lot in the wild.


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## Tim St. (May 11, 2007)

talkenlate04 said:


> Think of it this way...... when a mature female has babies, they disperse but not that far. So when a male matures from that clutch of babies, why wouldent the male mate with his mother? Or other sisters of that mother that are in the area. I think this type of breeding has to  happen a lot in the wild.


out of say...a clutch of 100 spiderlings, maybe 10 will make it to maturity, and out of that 10 there will be another 10 of a differnt bloodline sharing the same habitat and so on and so forth, so inbreeding would not happen alot and would be phased out by nature with disabilitys and deformitys that would kill off the inbred T's (Loss of fangs?)

With CB  say the same 100.. without preditor's and other factors, 75 make it to maturity and maybe 1000 people keep them and breed them, smaller gene pool =  more Genetic defects, Natural selection?

i just thot id explain my reasoning in a bit of detail. :?


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## Tarangela (May 13, 2007)

LRG said:


> This might be a really stupid question but where your T's CB or WC? if CB maybe inbreeding is a factor? small gene pool, most deformitys are caused by this.


The first that died was a CB from Swifts.  The second one was a WC, and this one right now is a WC.

I am really worried.  It seems like she *knows* what has happened to her, and she is trying to curl her legs under and other things.  I finally did get her to dip her carapace into some water and drink.  I hope she makes it long enough for me to try to hand feed her.  Boy, I bet she will go crazy when I try to pick her up.  I was able to shine a flash light under her, and see her fangs are nothing more than stubs.  So, she is harmless now   And, that means, I can only wait, until she shows signs of wanting to eat, before I try to feed her....it will be a long road


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## Tarangela (May 15, 2007)

Well, she seems to be stretching her legs a little.  I keep seeing her very streched out, like they normally are after a molt.  She pooped a LOT in her water bowl....her personality hasn't changed.  Maybe by a miracle she will be able to eat.  Picking her up to hand feed will NOT be fun, BUT will be done if necessary.

Thanks to all for the replies and ideas...


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## NBond1986 (May 23, 2007)

talkenlate04 said:


> Think of it this way...... when a mature female has babies, they disperse but not that far. So when a male matures from that clutch of babies, why wouldent the male mate with his mother? Or other sisters of that mother that are in the area. I think this type of breeding has to  happen a lot in the wild.


it certainly CAN happen. But this is why (IMO) males mature faster and one or two molts AHEAD of their female siblings. I believe that it is nature's way of preventing as much inbreeding as possible. And like LRG said, there are other genetic lines inhabiting the same areas. 

Also, I don't believe that inbreeding is nearly as much a problem with inverts as it is with mamals, birds, reptiles, etc....
I have read a paper (dont ask, i forgot where) that discussed inbreeding in inverts, and that's what I came away with.


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## Daniel_h (May 23, 2007)

i dont know if this has been asked before but do you get all your mice from the same place? maybe its a problem with the mice? (may be fed on something weird)


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## Tarangela (May 24, 2007)

Daniel_h said:


> i dont know if this has been asked before but do you get all your mice from the same place? maybe its a problem with the mice? (may be fed on something weird)


Nope, mice came from different places.  No one set place for them.

She has been keep her legs stretched out and everything, and is very alert.
I hope I am able to feed her.

When I have to hand feed her, I will post pics.


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## Talkenlate04 (May 24, 2007)

NBond1986 said:


> it certainly CAN happen. But this is why (IMO) males mature faster and one or two molts AHEAD of their female siblings. I believe that it is nature's way of preventing as much inbreeding as possible. And like LRG said, there are other genetic lines inhabiting the same areas.
> 
> Also, I don't believe that inbreeding is nearly as much a problem with inverts as it is with mamals, birds, reptiles, etc....
> I have read a paper (dont ask, i forgot where) that discussed inbreeding in inverts, and that's what I came away with.


You should re read what I said. I am not talking about sibling mating. I am saying that males from an egg sac proberly mate with their mothers or sisters of the mothers more then you think.


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## NBond1986 (May 24, 2007)

talkenlate04 said:


> You should re read what I said. I am not talking about sibling mating. I am saying that males from an egg sac proberly mate with their mothers or sisters of the mothers more then you think.


while that may certainly happen, I didn't fail to notice what you said. I addressed that issue by stating that inbreeding with inverts is generally less of a problem (less likelyhood of illeffects) than with other animals.


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## Tarangela (Jun 18, 2007)

*Update: Hand feeding this T. blondi*

So, this weekend, I took pics of feeding this T. blondi, Raggs.  I am not having to hand feed her, and usually it's a decent experience, but last night she was a hellion to catch.  Running, kicking, and hissing.

I am attaching pics of me hand feeding her.  Enjoy.

I am praying she will make it through this....and have another successful molt...


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## treeweta (Jun 19, 2007)

I had a 6 inch blondi moult 3 1/2 months ago (to a 7 inch size), she lost her fangs and has never been fed anything other than crickets and roaches (no mice)

As she is a juvenile her abdomen shrunk at the moult and it really is quite small now, i tried to feed her in a similar fashion is you but im not sure how much food she ingested, im just hoping she will make an emergency moult. Her sibling who is now a moult ahead and has perfect fangs.

I'm not convinced that low humididty can cause the fangs to tear out, youd expect the long legs to get stuck way before there was any issue with fangs. Unfortunatley the data is so low that its probably impossible to connect any causes to fang loss.


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## treeweta (Jun 19, 2007)

tarangela. So how do you rate the success of feeding in this way? thats an adult blondi yes? As she doesnt need to grow (like a juvenile would) maybe she will get through another moult OK on the reserves she has. Oh and what are you feeding there, mealworm mush? is it diluted atall?

another option i tried with  mine is to put it in a thick polythene bag , tie a knot over/behind the spider so its held tight (ensure the legs are curled naturally) cut a hole in the bag over the mouth and add the food to the mouth, the spider is held and cannot wriggle, you can also leave it upsidedown.


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## Tarangela (Jun 19, 2007)

treeweta said:


> tarangela. So how do you rate the success of feeding in this way? thats an adult blondi yes? As she doesnt need to grow (like a juvenile would) maybe she will get through another moult OK on the reserves she has. Oh and what are you feeding there, mealworm mush? is it diluted atall?
> 
> another option i tried with  mine is to put it in a thick polythene bag , tie a knot over/behind the spider so its held tight (ensure the legs are curled naturally) cut a hole in the bag over the mouth and add the food to the mouth, the spider is held and cannot wriggle, you can also leave it upsidedown.



treeweta,

Thanks for your questions, I will try to answer them as best as I can.  Here is the method I use.  This is kinda hard to explain, but it works for me.  

I take a piece of wax paper, and usually crush around 10-15 med. to large crickets.  I put the cricket inside the edge of the wax paper, and fold the other piece over the cricket.  Think of cricket sandwhich.  Then, I take the end of a pencil, the eraser part, and at an angle, hit the bottom end of the cricket.  This causes the cricket's insides to burst out from the end.  That is gross, but quicker and easier.  

Then, I take the watery insides of the cricket, and start a pile on the other end of the wax paper.  I repeat this process until I have mooshed up all the crickets.  When I have a gooey pile about 1/2" around.  Then, I spray just a little water on that pile of cricket goo.  All of this being on wax paper, I can use it all, and none of the nutrients are absorbed into a paper towel or anything.

Make sure the cricket goo doesn't have any hard parts of the cricket in it, she can't get that down.  Imagine trying to suck a lemon seed through a straw.  Then, get your sharp pointed tweezers ready.

NOW, you are ready to pick her up.  I used latex gloves b/c her hairs really make me itch.

I am right handed, so I pick her up w/ my left hand.  I use the holding method.  She usually fusses a little, kicks some hairs or hisses at me, but all is well.  Anyway, I pick her up, and she doesn't wiggle on me.  First, I take a little water and put it on her mouth area, to get her ready.

Then, I take the tweezers and pick up the cricket goo, and put it in her mouth, and work it around a bit w/ the tweezers, adding a little water every now and then, to help it all go down.

This whole process takes about 30 minutes.  I don't put her down until I see most of it gone.  Then, I will gently set her back down in the cage.  She cooperates very well at this stage, and when I let her go, she will take her pedipalps and put them under her mouth area like she did when she would hold food, when she had fangs.  And will sit like that until she is done.  I usually catch her grooming about an hour or more after this.

This is all complicated at first, but then, when you realize how necessary it is, it becomes an every other day task.  She may not be getting all of it down, but she has to be getting some.

I did this a year ago when another T. blondi broke it's fangs during a molt.  It lasted about 7-8 months before she died   She had mites.  

I hope this all works out, and will keep everyone posted.  It was very sad to see her molted and have NO fangs   If you have any questions, please let me know.....


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## treeweta (Jun 19, 2007)

tarangela. thanks for that info.

Today i put the spider in the bag again, this is easier than holding I reckon as you are holding the bag so to speak rather than the constant precise handling when you have the spider in your hand, i imagine that it could almost give you cramp after a while. Anyway i got a small earthworm and chopped it fine with scissors, then added some drops of water, I used a tiny wire loop (i had no dropper) and put the liquid bit by bit in the T mouth, the 'brushes' around the mouth seemed to draw the liquid in, the spider did respond with some chelicera movements, i guess she took about 1/2 teaspoon in total. Anyway hopefully the diluteness of the mush isnt aproblem but at this stage shes not much choice. I realised i made a mistake with the worm as it could hold parasites (nematodes arrrgh) so ive isolated it ayway for the time being. I tested to see if she was still hungry beforehand (and not in premoult, which she could still do i suppose), i put a roach in and she went crazy for it but couldnt do a thing, so yes shes still needing food. next time i will use a bit of a roach (i'll freeze one) and mash it and then feed the spider the very dilute mush. What i fed the spider taday was less a mush than a watery solution of worm juice, kind of a T drip. I'll see how she goes over the next day. she probably got the equivalent of half a cricket so i'll have to repeat this quite often!


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## treeweta (Jun 19, 2007)

on the subject of worms and other foods, when i first got t's in the Uk i'd feed them on wild caught worms and in summer the plentiful underwing moths, i never had nematodes or issues with any spiders. part of me wonders if the nematodes are simply opportunists accidentally introduced from food or maybe t specific and coming in from wild caught T's.


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## Tarangela (Jun 20, 2007)

treeweta said:


> tarangela. thanks for that info.
> 
> Today i put the spider in the bag again, this is easier than holding I reckon as you are holding the bag so to speak rather than the constant precise handling when you have the spider in your hand, i imagine that it could almost give you cramp after a while. Anyway i got a small earthworm and chopped it fine with scissors, then added some drops of water, I used a tiny wire loop (i had no dropper) and put the liquid bit by bit in the T mouth, the 'brushes' around the mouth seemed to draw the liquid in, the spider did respond with some chelicera movements, i guess she took about 1/2 teaspoon in total. Anyway hopefully the diluteness of the mush isnt aproblem but at this stage shes not much choice. I realised i made a mistake with the worm as it could hold parasites (nematodes arrrgh) so ive isolated it ayway for the time being. I tested to see if she was still hungry beforehand (and not in premoult, which she could still do i suppose), i put a roach in and she went crazy for it but couldnt do a thing, so yes shes still needing food. next time i will use a bit of a roach (i'll freeze one) and mash it and then feed the spider the very dilute mush. What i fed the spider taday was less a mush than a watery solution of worm juice, kind of a T drip. I'll see how she goes over the next day. she probably got the equivalent of half a cricket so i'll have to repeat this quite often!


treeweta,

That is a good method you are using.  I am glad to hear you are giving her another chance at life.  I just don't think I can do worms yet   I always hated putting them on a hook when fishing!  I will stick w/ crickets for now.

Let's keep touch about these blondis.....I wish you the best w/ your feeding.
I feed mine about every other day.  Tedious, but worth it, if she molts and grows new razor fangs


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## rknralf (Jun 20, 2007)

*Just a thought...*

Could you use a commercial wet cat/dog food?  In most cases it is pretty fine consistency.  Add some water to make a soupy mix and feed that to her?  Not sure if you had tried this as I didn't read the entire thread.
One small can would be enough for several feeding and could be stored in the refrigerator in between feedings.

Good luck with her.
Ralph


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## Tarangela (Jun 20, 2007)

rknralf said:


> Could you use a commercial wet cat/dog food?  In most cases it is pretty fine consistency.  Add some water to make a soupy mix and feed that to her?  Not sure if you had tried this as I didn't read the entire thread.
> One small can would be enough for several feeding and could be stored in the refrigerator in between feedings.
> 
> Good luck with her.
> Ralph



Yes, I had thought about that, I am just a little weary about the high fat content and processed stuff that is in cat/dog food.  It's a very good idea,
I just don't want my girl to be the test rat for trying it


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## AfterTheAsylum (Jun 20, 2007)

I'm curious of the care that everyone uses for their T. blondis.  I have cared for them for a long time, and I have so many, but outside of wild caught, I haven't had problems.


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## treeweta (Jun 20, 2007)

aftertheasylum.

Ive kept blondis/apophysis for over 10 years and never had significant issues save bad luck. Last year all 4 got 'white paste in mouth disease' which killed 2 spiderlings within days, im putting this down to crickets but none of my king baboons or megaphobema got ill. The two larger animals that got the disease one is now fine at 8 inches and as normal as i could expect, its sibling is the one without fangs. I have been keeping them drier than normal but that was after they got the paste disease as there were also mites in the tanks that seemed to infest the spiders more when they were stressed. since using roaches ive got rid of the mites, the white paste BUT only issue now is fangless.


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## treeweta (Jun 20, 2007)

tarangela, re the blondi, have you noticed the abdomen getting any larger. A pair of scientific scales would be useful to see if the T's are actually ingesting any material. NOt that im going to buy a set!!


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## treeweta (Jun 22, 2007)

ive fed the spider a few times now and this method seems to be working. i put a roach in the freezer and each time i feed the  blondi i cut  a section from the roach, remove the exoskeleton, mush and add distilled water until quite thinly diluted (our water is very limey). using a magnifying glass i could actualy see something moving rhythmically in the mouth, im guessing thats the openingto the pharynx actually taking the fluid in. i'll try it every other day and hopefully within  few months she will have put on some weight. hopefully the lack of venom doesnt cause a problem.


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## DrAce (Jun 22, 2007)

treeweta said:


> hopefully the lack of venom doesnt cause a problem.


On that note, I was of the understanding that the venom also contains digestive properties.

Perhaps a modification of your 'strategy' would be to have one of your other tarantulas (if you have them handy, a Blondi) kill and envenomate a roach/worm/other and then manually homogenise and feed them.  This might enhance the digestion going on.

Of course, that all hinges on getting the victim out of the clutches of your attacking spider.


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## treeweta (Jun 22, 2007)

DR Ace. well thats an idea but im not sure im goingto push my feeding attempts too far!!

Now im not sure if this is a bad sign but after this mornings dripfeed the spider preened itself as if had a normal meal but i now notice the fangs (what there is of them) are held open. Im not sure thats a good indication but i'll see how it is in a day or so.


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## pink'n'curly (Jun 22, 2007)

can i just ask ...when you guys say "hand feed" a spider, does that just mean using tweezers to give prey items to the T's...or is there more to it than that?
just curious....good luck btw...got my fingers crossed for ya.


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## travisamone (Jun 22, 2007)

pink'n'curly said:


> can i just ask ...when you guys say "hand feed" a spider, does that just mean using tweezers to give prey items to the T's...or is there more to it than that?
> just curious....good luck btw...got my fingers crossed for ya.


maybe if you would read a little of the thread your posting in before you post you would find out.


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## B.L. (Jun 23, 2007)

If this ever happens to my T. I'm going to put it down. I'm glad that people are willing to go to great lengths for their T Blondi but personally I am not able to do that. I would not try to breed a T Blondi that has had molt problems either in case it is genetic. I like my T. Blondi...but there is limits to what I can do. It seems like they end up dying anyway....why make them suffer.


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## TTstinger (Jun 23, 2007)

I have skimmed this post so if I am re-posting any part sorrry. I would like to first say Big high humid species are prone to molt issues IMO because of a few things. Feeding mice I do not believe to be one of them as science has show rodents to be extra sensitive to Tarantula venom. leading one to believe the venom was designed for them in a way. but that is another thread. I have found the one largest cause of molt problems is: POOR LIVING CONDITIONS 

Now I am not saying your not taking care of your spiders in any way, but it is more you not providing them everything they need. A tank with 3in of peat and a hide and a water dish is not enough. Now I do not know how your setup is so I am not saying this is you.  I have seen some very large T.blondi that never had molt problems. And they all had some of the same things going on 
1. large tanks 
2. deep burrows 
3. a moisture gradent
4. allowed to feed naturally (by this I mean not power feeding )  

another thing I found that is bad is too much moisture body parts tend to get stuck when humidity is too high makes things sticky. which is why I have always said a moisture gradent is a must these big spiders know what they need so they will seek it out and if conditions are horrible they take their chance's. 

so I hope this helps in some way and I wish the best for you T


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## treeweta (Jun 23, 2007)

TTstinger.

 Ive been keeping blondi for years now (and apophysis) and never had issues before. Aside from the illness they had last year from infected crickets the fangless spider is the only real issue ive had with my blondi, as far as i can tell the conditions they are in are optimal. Ive kept several blondis from 2nd moults to adulthood, my apophysis is now 12 years old so i'm doing something  right. What we need are statistics, I wonder how many times the fang damage happens and at what stages, can it happen to an otherwise perfect adult, mine is a large juvenile. I notice the other issue that can arise with blondi are those horrific abdomen ulcers that appear from nowhere.


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## pink'n'curly (Jun 23, 2007)

travisamone said:


> maybe if you would read a little of the thread your posting in before you post you would find out.


Sorry travisamone, i didnt wanna upset anyone with my question. Im really new to T's , ive only had mine for 2 weeks now. A lot of people on this forum are very experienced and talk to each other using terms someone new like myself does not fully understand, but i usually find if ask a question like that, one of the patient, friendly guys will give me a more simpler answer. I can see by the pics posted that tweezers are used to feed ,but i just wanted basic run down on the process. preparation of food item etc...after all, if i dont ask...i wont learn how to be the expert one day! 
                                          :razz:


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## TTstinger (Jun 23, 2007)

treeweta said:


> TTstinger.
> 
> Ive been keeping blondi for years now (and apophysis) and never had issues before. Aside from the illness they had last year from infected crickets the fangless spider is the only real issue ive had with my blondi, as far as i can tell the conditions they are in are optimal. Ive kept several blondis from 2nd moults to adulthood, my apophysis is now 12 years old so i'm doing something  right. What we need are statistics, I wonder how many times the fang damage happens and at what stages, can it happen to an otherwise perfect adult, mine is a large juvenile. I notice the other issue that can arise with blondi are those horrific abdomen ulcers that appear from nowhere.


again all conditions of the living conditions. the ulcers are from over feeding but if you refuse my advise as viable fine


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## treeweta (Jun 23, 2007)

TT stinger. 

as it stands ive never had any spider with an abdominal ulcer, im not sure there is any evidence that they are caused by overfeeding though, can you verify that through research results? I do use a temp and humidity gradient. The back of the tanks are hotter and drier than the front. If the front of the T tank has any degree of condensation present on the glass then the humidity at that point is close to/at 100%.

 Considering that blondi do have issues perhaps you could give arachnoboards your advice on keeping this species.


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## Tarangela (Jul 20, 2007)

Just an update for you all, I am still hand feeding this large blondi!  She seems to respond well.  She is a little fussy when I first pick her up, but when I get the food in her mouth area, and set her down, she will put her pedipalps under it, like when she used to hold her own food.

I can't wait until she molts again...but since she is the 11" size, it will be a while I am sure.....

Just wanted to let you all know she was still alive


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## ricneto (Jul 20, 2007)

Tarangela said:


> So what is it w/ me and T. blondi spiders???
> 
> I mean, I have had 3.  One, I had from a sling, for 5 years, and she died of heart problems, according to the autopsy.  Right after a molt.  Then, I had another I had bought at about 4-5" size, and it was doing well, until it had a bad molt, and lost most of it's fangs.  I hand fed it for 7-8 months, and it died on me   I have pics of that in an old thread on here, btw.
> 
> ...


I am just curious as how do you got to the conclusion that died of hart problems? 
Who did the autopsy? do you have pictures? And who ever did it how to know if the heart caused death. I doubt that there are any pathologie book of gross lesions of T's. And I am sure the large, very arge majority of vets wouldn't know what to look for on a T necropsy.

By the way it is necropsy, it is only autopsy if it is on a human cadaver.


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## ricneto (Jul 20, 2007)

Sorry. forgot to say beautiful blondi.:worship: 
how big is it?
do you have any more pics, never get tired of seeing blondi's


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## Pociemon (Jul 20, 2007)

pink'n'curly said:


> Sorry travisamone, i didnt wanna upset anyone with my question. Im really new to T's , ive only had mine for 2 weeks now. A lot of people on this forum are very experienced and talk to each other using terms someone new like myself does not fully understand, but i usually find if ask a question like that, one of the patient, friendly guys will give me a more simpler answer. I can see by the pics posted that tweezers are used to feed ,but i just wanted basic run down on the process. preparation of food item etc...after all, if i dont ask...i wont learn how to be the expert one day!
> :razz:


Hi

I think you got that answer because it is a looong thread and people are much into this debate with the missing fangs etc.
If you want to learn more about T´s, then first read many different kind of threads, maybe use the search function for the specific things you need to learn. Then make your own thread and ask for the things you have doubt about. There are a lot of helpful people in here, and you will get all the help you need Just be patient sometimes for the answers, there are people all over the world in here, and not every where they are awake at the same time;-)

ps; There are also books available, 

I hope this helps a little


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## Tarangela (May 28, 2008)

This is an update.....

If you read through this thread, and my other threads....you will see that this is my second blondi who molted late in life, and has lost fangs....

I had been hand feeding her, every week....and she started having lots of problems a year later...again, read through the threads....

I found her dead on 5/26/08.

It was extremely sad, and brought tears to my eyes...she really struggled, and did all she could do to survive.....she never made it to that rejuvinating molt though...

Thanks to you all for your posts and ideas....

I now have 2 blondi slings...about 1" that I am trying this all over again...if I am lucky enough to have a male and female, I will let them mate....have had the slings since Jan.

Thanks again to you all...

RIP Raggs


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## unitard311 (May 28, 2008)

Sorry for your loss, that is never easy. Hang in there.


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## Tarangela (May 28, 2008)

unitard311 said:


> Sorry for your loss, that is never easy. Hang in there.


Thanks....it's rough after you hand feed one for over a year....


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## ShellsandScales (Aug 3, 2008)

TheDarkFinder said:


> I'm going out on a limb here but they need you can not just keep them on dry substrate, water dish or not. You know that. If it is molting in that dry of dirt then I would not doubt you are having problems, in fact begging for them. I know the response this is going to bring, "I have T blondi for 37 years and keep them on nothing but driest conditions and no dish and never had a problem." I have heard it before.
> 
> Just thought I would give you my opinion.


Thats exactly what I was thinking, then I saw your post.


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## DreadLobster (Aug 3, 2008)

After tarangela talked me through dealing with this same problem with my l. parahybana, I think I can explain her reasoning. Not to speak for her, but when we went through this, she said that without the fangs, the T was pretty much unable to clean its mouth. Because of its poor... um... dental hygiene, mites started to show up around its mouth. So to discourage the mites, she dried out the cage. So its a catch 22... If the cage is as humid as it would need to be for a blondi, she's risking mites showing up and hurting the t. If not, she's risking the t not getting enough moisture... Not much of a way out of that one. Not that I think anyone is really giving their advice in a mean spirit or anything but... if you haven't dealt with this problem, its a little more complicated that you'd think.


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## Fingolfin (Aug 26, 2008)

I got the chance to ask Rick West at the Arachnoparty about this issue (deformed fangs, missing fangs) and he said its two things: Their setups not being humid enough, and feeding them mice. In the wild their primary diet is frogs, and some roaches. He said that feeding them mice makes them bloat up so it looks like they take value from it, but in reality you are starving it nutritionally... then you end up with those fangs over time. Just don't feed them mice!


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## Lucara (Aug 26, 2008)

The only blondi that I had that died during a molt was a w/c one that didnt look good from the getgo (got it cheep from a reptile expo). All my blondi's are kept, like Talkenlate said, almost to the point of being a swamp and they ahve constant access to a large water dish. I have yet to have any problems. I also never feed mammals to them. Roaches work just as well at plumping them up fast (they also smell less and are cheeper).

From what i've seen, 90% of the problems people have with blondis is that they dont keep them constantly moist enough. 
I also dont agree with TTstinger's post. Obviously you dont wnat your blondi swimming around its tank but the w/c blondi that I had was kept in dry conditions (from its previous keeper). When she molted, she got stuck half way through and died because of it. 

I also just picked up another male for cheep thats been on the weak side. He was also kept in a dry tank with occasional mistings. The second I placed him in his ICU cage he went straight for the water dish. He was also fed mice from his previous keeper so we'll see how his fangs do in his upcoming molt. (Should molt in the next month or two).

Just my 2cents.


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