# Tegenaria Domestica: Questions (many!) about care, behaviour, reproduction & spiderlings



## Angelala (Sep 6, 2018)

Hi everyone! This is my first post - I've been reading threads for a few months but have been having some questions that are difficult to research online. I hope you're all doing well!

I have quite a few questions, and realized I had to tap into the wealth of knowledge in the users here to find answers. This is a LONG post with lots of questions - if you can answer all of them, bless you - if you only want to reply to a certain question, I would welcome and appreciate that also. All questions asked have been researched online (websites, forums, scholarly journal articles), and while I've found info that partially answers some of my questions, I find myself needing more specificity/elaboration. I just don't want anyone to think I'm dumping questions here without doing my due diligence first, as that can be frustrating, I'm sure.

*A little background:*

3 months ago, I was terrified of spiders. I HATED them. But I'm not the type of person that likes fear to get the best of me (I went skydiving to get over my fear of heights, for example), so when I found what I would soon identify as a large female tegenaria domestica in my house, I caught her, with the intent of letting her outside. It was raining, so I thought I'd read about the critter before letting her go, and soon realized that her natural habitat wasn't outside at all, but in our house!

I soon became fascinated by watching her, and decided to feed her. When I saw how FAST she was, how precise, and especially how she then guarded her food, carrying it around, I realized that some of her hunting behaviours reminded me of some of my favourite animals, lions. Oddly enough. With a newfound respect for her, I began researching. Now I'm reading about Tarantulas and considering getting one--you might say I caught the bug (see what I did there? ). Now my fear of spiders is gone, and I have a new hobby. I think I'll always have a soft spot for barn funnel weaver spiders - with their little fangs & round eyes, I now find their little faces adorably cute).

*Present day:* I still have the same spider. She began acting odd a few days ago - I put in a small pill bug which she likes occasionally, and I noticed she killed it, but didn't wrap it up or eat it. She did the same the next day when I tried feeding her again.

Then, today, I noticed she has laid an egg-sack, which is amazing to see! She is currently standing over it, guarding, as I opened her enclosure to give her water and then spotted it - she's being a good mom so far!

*QUESTIONS ABOUT MOM - CARE & BEHAVIOUR:*

Is the aforementioned behaviour typical for TD's? (Killing potential threats to eggsack but not eating around egg-laying time?)

• I assume it takes a lot of energy to make an egg sack. But I don't want to put food in there if she's not done with her sack, if that will upset her. Any advice on this, and/or suggestions re: feeding habits for a soon-to-be-mom? (I think she just laid it today, as it is very small and still transparent, and I can see yellow inside, so I assume she will be doing more wrapping/camouflaging).

• Is it correct that TG's don't necessarily die after egg-laying, and can survive for a few years/multiple rounds of egg laying?

• If she does survive, what time next year should I put a male in her enclosure? I've read that some spiders don't need a male every year/can save spirm and even that some reproduce asexually, not sure the case with this spider.

• Does anyone know if TD's still moult after adulthood/egg laying? Or is she done her moulting now as an adult?

*QUESTIONS RE: SPIDERLINGS/SLINGS:*

• I've read some people say, "be prepared for more egg sacks!" when responding to someone who has a TD that laid a sack. Do they lay multiple sacks at once? Or will she lay more and then spin them together into a large ball? 

• If the eggs hatch and aren't duds and they hatch, does anyone have any good references they could point me to (or share their own experience/wisdom)...how do I take care of them (in terms of humidity, temperature, etc.), and when should I separate mom from babies? If she dies, I assume I should leave her in there for the babies?

• This is one of the questions I've not been able to find *anything* on: I read that tarantula slings don't eat anything until they've molted a certain number of times... Is that the case with all spider babies? Do TG's molt a few times before needing food? (If so, anyone know approx. how many times/how long it takes?) 

• I'm assuming they need water regardless? What's the best way to provide that without making their environment too moist or hurting them?

• How do you know when it's time to start feeding them (and WHAT can I feed them?)

• I read some slings, when large enough to eat, scavenge off of dead bugs; would it be good to put a big dead cricket or something in the enclosure while they are still living communally at a certain point for them to live from? 

• How long can they live together before they begin considering each other to be prey?

• Any idea how many babies to expect, approx.?

*QUESTIONS ABOUT RESEARCHING SPIDERS IN GENERAL - SOURCES?*

• I've been looking for more information specifically on the moulting patterns of this species particularly, but also of some less popular "pet" spiders: I've added a male broad-faced sac spider & a grass spider to my "collection", and I'd like to read more in the way of specific moulting behaviour for these and other less written about spiders. I am a big fan of scholarly literature & studies, and websites that use data so there's no room for misunderstanding, etc. Books are great too. Any good sources on this subject matter that anyone can think of would be really appreciated).

• Also any tips for good places to visit for quality info on behaviour in general, studies, etc. I've been searching under both scientific names and colloquial names, but still find myself coming up short when it comes to detailed analyses of the less "popular" arachnids; any search term tips or tips for research in general would be so appreciated!

To anyone who made it this far, *thank you so much!* I'd love to hear your experiences & observations, even if they don't completely answer a question but address aspects of it. I'm curious and love researching - and I tend to be a wee inquisitive, heh!  

Thanks again!

-Angela


----------



## pannaking22 (Sep 6, 2018)

Welcome to the forum!



Angelala said:


> *QUESTIONS ABOUT MOM - CARE & BEHAVIOUR:*
> 
> Is the aforementioned behaviour typical for TD's? (Killing potential threats to eggsack but not eating around egg-laying time?) *Some do, some don't*
> 
> ...

Reactions: Helpful 1


----------



## The wolf (Sep 6, 2018)

Firstly you come across as such an amazing guy/girl your energy enthusiasm is just incredible I hope you enjoy your stay and feel very much welcome

Now


Worth noting t.domestica are often miss IDed eratigena spp ex atricas,coelotes or agelenopsis but based on yr level of research etc I doubt it in this case 


although I have kept t.domestica and hatched a sac most ofthis is based off of my experiences with the extremely similar erategena atrica or really e.spp ex atrica but whatever

So,I've found my females often begin rejecting food a few days before laying a sac and once the sac is layer I've never tried feeding them but I do not remotely doubt a similar outcome 

So yes it's normal 


Likely yes,she will be adding web a for a good few hrs after you spot the sac and she could be adding camo days afterwards

Now lifespan post sac is a bit tricky,my first big AF was likely quite old when she made her first sac,she made quite a few more and died likely of exhaustion,my other AFs have been much more spread out so I'd say you're looking at (based on the season) at least a month with her and a good few more eggsacs but it all depends on Temp diet age etc so I couldn't say exactly 

She will lay a sac then about a week or two later she will lay another and then another and likely another etc,they will be separate 

Now,with the babies I have a very tried and tested method,first remove the eggsac after a week or a few days from her setup as gently as you can,preferably with scissors,then place in a separate container of any size,with some slightly damp tissues in the bottom,thespiders will emerge as helpless fat blob things and then moult into perfect tiny replicas of the adults,you can now feed them fruit flys very occasionally,they will cohabitat and they will share food as a single fruity is far too much for one,if they don't take them you need to use things like cricket legs or crushed mealworms be extremely careful of mould it is BAD NEWS hence slings with no humidity and minimal food  will be fine but leftovers in a damp environment will kill them very quickly 
Then whenever convenient take the largest and keep them separately preferably once you first notice canabalism,it's perfectly natural don't worry it's just natural selection,then once you have the strongest few you can release the rest

Ok that was general sling care now specific questions 

1moult and then feed them,or Essentially once they look like mini adults,this should take a few days my e.spp ex atrica slings are on their second moult with no food,no canabalism and no deaths they are still fat and active,I will feed them fffs tomorrow 

Water them by using paper towels ever so slightly wetted by weekly misting

Flightless fruiflys true pinhead crickets the live half of baby mealworms (the head end when u cut em in half) you can also feed them small bits of things legs or tiny segments,do not overestimate how much they eat a whole cricket would rot and fester before they could eat it

Unfortunately the only way to be sure is once the biggest one moults early and chomps it's bro
Look for the dead dried slings do not confuse withshed skins

20-60 slings 



Unfortunately there isn't very much info out there,I have a few good UK specific guides and a p outdated textbook and p much the rest I know is annecdotal as there are very few people who would record moulting patters (bar me) really all I've gathered is from keeping the bugs themselves (which I do a bit too much) or talking with other who keep them on various Reddits,the Tarantula addict discord server and obviously arachnoboards all of which I rate very highly 

Honestly there aren't many people who record behaviour etc I know a few OKish UK websites but none for the Americas and as I say a couple of very good UK ID guides with tons of additional info 

Species specific behaviour and care are some of my favourite subjects I've actually written a few caresheet on the TA server for some p common trues I'll have to post here sometime and I'm actually really sad there are so few resources out there 

Any questions,corrections clarifications please just ask or tell me


----------



## Ungoliant (Sep 6, 2018)

*QUESTIONS ABOUT MOM - CARE & BEHAVIOUR*



Angelala said:


> Is the aforementioned behaviour typical for TD's? (Killing potential threats to eggsack but not eating around egg-laying time?)


If spiders are faced with a potential threat when they're not feeding, it's not uncommon for them to make a defensive kill, especially if escape is not an option.




Angelala said:


> • I assume it takes a lot of energy to make an egg sack. But I don't want to put food in there if she's not done with her sack, if that will upset her. Any advice on this, and/or suggestions re: feeding habits for a soon-to-be-mom? (I think she just laid it today, as it is very small and still transparent, and I can see yellow inside, so I assume she will be doing more wrapping/camouflaging).


While I have not kept Tegenaria, in my experience, most spiders will not feed while guarding their egg sacs.




Angelala said:


> • Is it correct that TG's don't necessarily die after egg-laying, and can survive for a few years/multiple rounds of egg laying?


This species lives fairly long for true spiders. Females can live up to 3-4 years in captivity, producing multiple egg sacs in their lifetime.




Angelala said:


> I've read that some spiders don't need a male every year/can save spirm and even that some reproduce asexually, not sure the case with this spider.


This species can lay as many as nine egg sacs before re-mating, spreading them up to two years apart.




Angelala said:


> • Does anyone know if TD's still moult after adulthood/egg laying? Or is she done her moulting now as an adult?


Like most true spiders, this species stops molting once it reaches sexual maturity.


*QUESTIONS RE: SPIDERLINGS/SLINGS*



Angelala said:


> Do they lay multiple sacks at once? Or will she lay more and then spin them together into a large ball?


The egg sacs would be separate, with each clutch of spiderlings emerging at a different time.




Angelala said:


> when should I separate mom from babies? If she dies, I assume I should leave her in there for the babies?


I haven't kept these, but generally you want to separate (or release) spiderlings at the second instar (one molt after they emerge from the sac).




Angelala said:


> • This is one of the questions I've not been able to find *anything* on: I read that tarantula slings don't eat anything until they've molted a certain number of times... Is that the case with all spider babies? Do TG's molt a few times before needing food? (If so, anyone know approx. how many times/how long it takes?)


Most spiderlings won't feed until the second instar. During the first instar, they live off their internal yolk.




Angelala said:


> • I'm assuming they need water regardless? What's the best way to provide that without making their environment too moist or hurting them?


Drip water onto the web.




Angelala said:


> (and WHAT can I feed them?)


Any small prey will do, but I'd avoid ants, wasps, or other things that can bite or sting.




Angelala said:


> • I read some slings, when large enough to eat, scavenge off of dead bugs; would it be good to put a big dead cricket or something in the enclosure while they are still living communally at a certain point for them to live from?


It wouldn't hurt to try, but with few exceptions, the natural instinct of spiderlings is to disperse after they molt for the first time.




Angelala said:


> • How long can they live together before they begin considering each other to be prey?


As soon as they start feeding (second instar), they will cannibalize each other if kept in a confined space.


*QUESTIONS ABOUT RESEARCHING SPIDERS IN GENERAL - SOURCES?*



Angelala said:


> I am a big fan of scholarly literature & studies, and websites that use data so there's no room for misunderstanding, etc. Books are great too. Any good sources on this subject matter that anyone can think of would be really appreciated).


I am a fan of _Biology of Spiders_ by Rainer Foelix.

Another good reference book is _Spiders of North America: An Identification Manual_. (It's currently in its second edition.)

The World Spider Catalog covers taxonomy and includes citations to scholarly articles.




Angelala said:


> • Also any tips for good places to visit for quality info on behaviour in general, studies, etc. I've been searching under both scientific names and colloquial names, but still find myself coming up short when it comes to detailed analyses of the less "popular" arachnids; any search term tips or tips for research in general would be so appreciated!


Here is a collection of spider identification resources online.

Spider ID has some basic information about a variety of spiders.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 2


----------



## Angelala (Sep 22, 2018)

Thbk

Thank you so much for this! I really appreciate your taking the time, this is all super useful.

I have been doing some research but haven't had much luck finding out (generally) how long each instar takes? 

I caught a very tiny baby TD a few weeks ago and have been keeping it to try to learn for when the other spiderlings emerge, and it hasn't molted yet. So I'm assuming this can take quite awhile?


----------



## Ungoliant (Sep 22, 2018)

Angelala said:


> I have been doing some research but haven't had much luck finding out (generally) how long each instar takes?


Growth rate will depend on temperatures and feeding schedules. (Warm temperatures coupled with more food promote faster growth.)


----------

