# Archispirostreptus gigas - Am I doing it right?



## Leonie (Mar 25, 2015)

A month ago I purchased two (male and female) African giant millipedes from a well known shop in the Netherlands. They kept their millipedes on cocopeat and gave them various fruits and vegetables. I noticed how most of the millipedes were laying on top of the substrate and a few were dug in.

I wanted my millipedes on a more natural substrate so I went to the forest and collected mostly oak and beech leaves, leaf humus, white rotten wood and some moss. I went through it and removed all harmful or bigger animals. Then I placed the substrate in the container (a terrarium is being made) and let my millipedes in. The first thing they did was dig in. Everyday I place bits of pear, apple, carrot, dry cat food and a piece of sepia on top of the substrate. Furthermore I keep everything moist but not wet. Underneath the container lays a heath strip covering a third of the bottom.

Does this sound right? I rarely see my millipedes. The male came above ground only once so far (the female never!) and I twice dug gently to find them and see if they were still doing okay. I think the male was terrified by me since he defecated and ran away, digging himself in again. They never eat from the food I have laid out for them. Just a few times they ate some pear, apple, carrot and dry cat food when I handed it to them after gently digging until I found them. I assume they eat the substrate most of the time.
They're most active during the late evening. I can hear leaves crack and I sometimes see the substrate moving when they're digging but they don't move much. And they don't show their faces.

I've been looking online for similar stories but it seems other people's millipedes like to be above ground just as much as dug in. I'm not sure why my millipedes never show themselves and I'm a bit worried about them not eating any of the food I give them.

Am I doing it right or am I doing something wrong?


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## Mister Internet (Mar 25, 2015)

You're almost correct... first of all, you should probably have tried to "clean" the substrate a bit before dumping the millis in.  Submerge it completely in water for a while and then drain/dry, or if you're very fanatical, bake it in the oven at 250F for 20-30 minutes. I personally can't stand the smell of the baking, and you don't want a "sterile" substrate anyway. It just means the first bio-active organisms that find it will "bloom" because there is no competition. That's fine if they are springtails, not so fine if they are grain mites.  Then again, I know plenty of people just use forest floor substrate straight form the wild with no preparation and have done fine.

Also, remove the heat pad from under the tank... millis burrow for feeding, molting, and protection, they do NOT do it to seek heat. Most millis actually don't need that much heat... when they are visible in the wild, it is usually in the cooler parts of the day, and/or in the shade, and/or at night. The only time I've ever used heat on millis is when I'm shipping them in winter. 

Lastly, as I understand it they will mostly eat the substrate... they may come up occasionally and eat food items, but for the most part, they will fill themselves on the rotting wood and leaf hummus from the substrate. As long as you see tracks, burrows, and activity signs, they are probably eating fine.

It's usually a bad idea to dig them up and disturb them as much as you're doing... try to grab them when they're visible if possible.  If they are burrowed, they are just actual natural.

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## CrawlinChaos (Mar 25, 2015)

Mister Internet's advice is good. Its quite normal for millipedes to stay below ground most of the time. I usually don't see mine until after dark. And if they are molting or something, they'll disappear for quite some time. One specific suggestion I can make is not to use dry cat food. Cats are carnivorous and their food is formulated to address that. You're better off with dog food or (in my opinion) reptile food of some sort. I think reptile or tortoise dry food is the best as it has more calcium than other dry foods and might contain some actual fruit in there....somewhere, lol. Good luck!

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## Leonie (Mar 26, 2015)

Thank you both for your advice! 

About the substrate: I heard that if you killed all animals and microbes there would be no balance anymore and one species could take over the entire substrate, so that is why I didn't put it in the freezer or the oven. I've been staring at the substrate for quite some time now and I haven't noticed any infestations yet, but if things change I'll take your advice and submerge the substrate in water and let it dry. Maybe a good idea when the terrarium has been build and I have to relocate them.

About the heat pad: I'll try that one although I'm not too sure. They seem to be in the warmer area of the substrate most of the time, so that would mean they prefer the warmth. I have to add that my house is a bit cold, especially at night (old buildings..  ) and I, myself, am wearing sweaters most of the time. But it's something I will keep in mind!

About the cat food: I will buy some reptile/turtoise dry food then. The extra calcium is probably a good idea. I heard that if a millipede gets nippy (trying to take a little bite off of you) they lack protein. So that is why I gave them dry cat food because the female was nippy with me at the shop where I bought them. The shop didn't give them proteins, nor calcium and they did fine said the keeper. But well, I want to be as complete as possible.

And I'll try to keep myself from gently digging for them and disturbing them. It's hard though, I'm very curious.


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## wastedwoodsman (Mar 26, 2015)

Leonie said:


> Thank you both for your advice!
> 
> About the substrate: I heard that if you killed all animals and microbes there would be no balance anymore and one species could take over the entire substrate, so that is why I didn't put it in the freezer or the oven. I've been staring at the substrate for quite some time now and I haven't noticed any infestations yet, but if things change I'll take your advice and submerge the substrate in water and let it dry. Maybe a good idea when the terrarium has been build and I have to relocate them.
> 
> ...


 It is very hard indeed not to dig for them until I saw what happened when I accidently learned it the hard way! I use turtle, dog, and fish food for my agbs and they eat it up like crazy. But keep in mind you will have to crush it into a powder for them. (I put mine in a plastic bag and use a hammer to crush it into a powder then put it back in the turtle food container!)

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## Leonie (Mar 26, 2015)

wastedwoodsman said:


> It is very hard indeed not to dig for them until I saw what happened when I accidently learned it the hard way! I use turtle, dog, and fish food for my agbs and they eat it up like crazy. But keep in mind you will have to crush it into a powder for them. (I put mine in a plastic bag and use a hammer to crush it into a powder then put it back in the turtle food container!)


Did your millipedes die? And why do you have to crush it into a powder? My millipedes seemed to do okay with eating the dry cat food as a whole (I moistened it a bit), curling their heads all around it, nibbling bit by bit until it's gone.


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## wastedwoodsman (Mar 26, 2015)

Leonie said:


> Did your millipedes die? And why do you have to crush it into a powder? My millipedes seemed to do okay with eating the dry cat food as a whole (I moistened it a bit), curling their heads all around it, nibbling bit by bit until it's gone.


 Well i  had 2 flameleg millipedes and i did kill one by digging for her. :/ Though i have noticed if the dry food gets to moist it molds really fast and mine don't eat it much if i don't crush it. Once i crush it and put it in there the whole bowl is usually gone in a couple days. But if yours eat dry cat food without being crush more power to them i guess! lol seems they aren't as picky as mine XD

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## CrawlinChaos (Mar 26, 2015)

You should go read my post about microwaving dried foods to try to reduce mold growth if you haven't already. Its might also have something to do with the fact that you crush it. Crushing it increases the surface area for mold to grow on and hastens the absorption of moisture. I never crush my food and everything I own eats it.

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## Cavedweller (Mar 27, 2015)

I didn't see any of my AGBs surface for several months, one finally showed up the other night hahaha. That's why you have to get lots of millipedes, then there will always be at least a few out and about for viewing! 

You don't need to offer fresh food that often, especially if they've got a proper leaf and wood rich substrate. Giving them too much will invite mite infestations, try offering it just once a week.

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## Leonie (Mar 28, 2015)

Cavedweller said:


> I didn't see any of my AGBs surface for several months, one finally showed up the other night hahaha. That's why you have to get lots of millipedes, then there will always be at least a few out and about for viewing!
> 
> You don't need to offer fresh food that often, especially if they've got a proper leaf and wood rich substrate. Giving them too much will invite mite infestations, try offering it just once a week.


Thanks! That reassures me. I was indeed thinking of getting more millipedes to increase the chance of seeing one.


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## Leonie (Apr 2, 2015)

I noticed my female having some weird spots. Thought maybe it was some dirt so I tried to remove it with a wet swab to check if it's indeed dirt, but it's not. 

Does anyone know what it is?


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## wastedwoodsman (Apr 2, 2015)

Its really hard to tell from the photos is there a way you can get a closer shot of the spots? It could be scratches or mites? Its impossible to tell from these photos. :/


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## Leonie (Apr 2, 2015)

The mite population has grown a bit but no infestation yet. In the first photo I see 3 or 4 mites and those spots or scratches. Second photo is close up.


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## wastedwoodsman (Apr 2, 2015)

Might be signs of a molt coming up soon. Do you have any objects in the tank for climbing? if so it might be possible that this one fell off and scratched the exoskeleton. It doesn't appear to me like this is anything to worry about. I would just keep an eye on them to see if any more of these spots appear and if they do where.

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## Leonie (Apr 2, 2015)

She's not much of a climber.. nor a walker actually. Her favorite spot is under a piece of bark and she doesn't go very far from it. She is still eating okay and her reflexes are fine, so maybe it's nothing to worry about as you say. I'll keep an eye on them. Thanks.

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## wastedwoodsman (Apr 2, 2015)

I hope she remains okay make sure to keep us all updated! She's gorgeous!

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## Leonie (Apr 2, 2015)

wastedwoodsman said:


> I hope she remains okay make sure to keep us all updated! She's gorgeous!


Haha :-D Will do!


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## darkfyre (Apr 5, 2015)

Ouch, that cracked exoskeleton brings up some bad memories of my poor flameleg millipede.  My suggestion is to KEEP HUMIDITY UP.  She may be drying out.

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## Leonie (Apr 6, 2015)

Thanks darkfyre. I will see to that, although it's pretty humid already. 

I was thinking of another theory. What if she's low on calcium, she could have scratched some off of her exoskeleton maybe. Maybe because she's going to molt soon.


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## SDCPs (Apr 8, 2015)

darkfyre said:


> Ouch, that cracked exoskeleton brings up some bad memories of my poor flameleg millipede.  My suggestion is to KEEP HUMIDITY UP.  She may be drying out.


What happened to the flameleg?


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## darkfyre (Apr 8, 2015)

He went from being my happiest, most active millipede to suddenly stopping.  He was crawling around and simply dried out while under a leaf.

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## Leonie (Apr 9, 2015)

Did you notice a humidity change? And did you have other millipedes that were doing fine?



Two days ago I gave my millipedes a new, larger, home. Still not as big as I wanted it to be (60x45x45 cm / 23.6x17.7x17.7 inches), but they will do alright I think. They seemed to be very eager to explore the new terrain and it was very fun watching it. I've put some branches in it to climb on and there's a pile of leaves in one corner and some bark to crawl under. Furthermore some moss and a substrate of oak/beech leafs, sand, leaf humus, cocopeat, woodchips, white rotten wood and I've put some extra calcium in the substrate. Now that they've explored, they're back to being very quiet and hidden.

When they were walking around I could see that both seemed to be a little bigger than 6/7 weeks ago when I bought them. I didn't see any old exoskeletons in the old substrate though. My female looked better than last week. Her 'scratches' seemed less visible. I had sprayed her with water and given her extra calcium.

A photo of the two, both eating some mushroom. Sorry for the bad quality.


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## darkfyre (Apr 9, 2015)

Great to hear the news! That's a fantastic tank, I wish mine was half as nice.  It seems to me that your Gigas might have molted. Millipedes eat the majority of their old exo to regain lost chitin, so it's unlikely you would find one anyways.  I'd look around for tiny slivers that match the coloration.  That's how is discovered my Thai was molting.  Best of luck!

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## Leonie (Apr 9, 2015)

Thanks! And thanks for that info about the chitin, didn't know that yet. Hopefully my millipedes will like it and I wouldn't mind it at all if they started breeding soon. Fingers crossed!


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## Leonie (Apr 10, 2015)

I'm thinking about whether it's a good idea or not to put a few spirostreptus spec 1 with my AGBs. What do you guys think? 

Sunday I'll be getting some from a friendly person.


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## TheInv4sion (Apr 10, 2015)

wastedwoodsman said:


> Well i  had 2 flameleg millipedes and i did kill one by digging for her. :/ Though i have noticed if the dry food gets to moist it molds really fast and mine don't eat it much if i don't crush it. Once i crush it and put it in there the whole bowl is usually gone in a couple days. But if yours eat dry cat food without being crush more power to them i guess! lol seems they aren't as picky as mine XD


I tend to not give themthat much food other than the sub itself. I give them a little something once every week or two, but even then my two AGBs usually are seen munching on the sub (hardwood, leaf litter, etc.)

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## Cavedweller (Apr 10, 2015)

Leonie said:


> I'm thinking about whether it's a good idea or not to put a few spirostreptus spec 1 with my AGBs. What do you guys think?
> 
> Sunday I'll be getting some from a friendly person.


The main problem I've encountered with keeping mixed species together is if a much larger male tries to mate with a female of a smaller species. If you're going with more than one, I'd give them their own tank. Spirostreptus sp. 1 is a very underrated species. Great pedes!

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## Leonie (Apr 13, 2015)

Thanks Cavedweller. I recieved them yesterday and am already enjoying them a lot. I think I've gotten 4 or 5 of them, ranging in size but all juveniles. They're still in a fauna box right now and I will prepare a tank tomorrow. They're going to love it.


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## wastedwoodsman (Apr 13, 2015)

TheInv4sion said:


> I tend to not give themthat much food other than the sub itself. I give them a little something once every week or two, but even then my two AGBs usually are seen munching on the sub (hardwood, leaf litter, etc.)


 Yea I always give my millipedes fresh cucumbers. Theres rarely a day they don't have something fresh (apples, cucumber, carrot slice, lettuce, cabbage etc) in their tanks. Just a personal preference I suppose. My agb's really loved having the options of fresh fruit/veggies, substrate, and protein powder. ( ground up turtle, dog, and fish food.) I always saw them eating and they gave me very adorable babies! ^,.,^ Also Leonie you should take pictures of the A. sp 1 so I can see what they look like!

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## Leonie (Apr 14, 2015)

This is the tank I made for my A. gigas.


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## Cavedweller (Apr 18, 2015)

Leonie, I would switch out for a tub or regular aquarium tank. I've had pretty bad time keeping pedes in one of those. You can't really make the sub deep enough, pedelings can escape. The worst thing was when I didn't see a pede had crept through the door crack and I decapitated it when I closed the door :'(


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## Leonie (Apr 19, 2015)

Cavedweller said:


> Leonie, I would switch out for a tub or regular aquarium tank. I've had pretty bad time keeping pedes in one of those. You can't really make the sub deep enough, pedelings can escape. The worst thing was when I didn't see a pede had crept through the door crack and I decapitated it when I closed the door :'(


Ouch! Thanks for the warning and advice. Do you know the type of tank Exo Terra? The ventilation holes are very narrow on the inside of the tank and there's a ridge behind the doors to prevent crawling under. How big are babies actually?
How deep should the substrate be you think? Mine is 15 to 24 cm deep (or 5.9 to 9.4 inches).


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## Cavedweller (Apr 19, 2015)

Yeah that's exactly what I had and the newly hatched babies were only a few millimeters long, but even much older pedelings could easily fit through the vent. The empty space between the door and the sides is another place babies can escape. I ended up taping a strip of plastic over the vent part and stuffing fabric in the door gaps as a stop-gap measure, but everything was soooo much easier once I just moved everyone to a plastic tub. My totally unproven general rule of thumb is to make the substrate as deep as the biggest millipede is long. Keep in mind you will be adding more leaf litter over time, so it will get deeper.


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## Leonie (Apr 19, 2015)

Cavedweller said:


> Yeah that's exactly what I had and the newly hatched babies were only a few millimeters long, but even much older pedelings could easily fit through the vent. The empty space between the door and the sides is another place babies can escape. I ended up taping a strip of plastic over the vent part and stuffing fabric in the door gaps as a stop-gap measure, but everything was soooo much easier once I just moved everyone to a plastic tub. My totally unproven general rule of thumb is to make the substrate as deep as the biggest millipede is long. Keep in mind you will be adding more leaf litter over time, so it will get deeper.


Thanks Cavedweller. A bummer since I just moved them in this tank, but better safe than sorry. Will be moving them again when I find a better tank. I will use this one for some phasmatodea then.

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