# substrate help please?



## Gillroyale (Feb 22, 2013)

Good evening. I'm new to this forum and being a keeper. I have a copy of the tarantula keepers guide, and have done a good deal of research. However I have limited resources, ( no car) and live in a rural part of Michigan. We have a feed store but they only have sand, more sand and wood chips. I would much prefer peat moss but wall mart is too far to walk. 

On a brighter note! I just got my first tarantula. A Chilean rose. One of the pink ones. I bought some jiffy organic soil for her to get her off the wet wood chips the moron at the pet store had her on. I haven't bedded her tank yet though. I've been trying to sift it to remove all the little white styrofoam balls. And I wanted to be 100 percent sure before I do something potentially stupid. 

It is 40-50% Sphagnum peat moss, composted bark, vermiculite, perlite, lime and organic wetting agent. 

I'm not sure about the wetting agent. The only thing I'm concerned about is the lime. Otherwise it seems like a near ideal mixture. I've read about 2 people saying in other posts that lime is bad. Is this true? And can someone elaborate for me? If it is, is it possible I can process it out? Maybe through rinsing it or something? My options are slim and until I can get somethinf,  my precious pet is resting on unforgiving cold plastic. If I have to I will let her out on my chest and form a hide with my hands for her to chill in for a while. But I HAD to remove that wet crap the pet store dude had in there. 

Thank you for reading this far and any help is greatly appreciated. 

To the admins, I hope this was the right forum to post this thread. If not I apologize in advance.


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## philge (Feb 23, 2013)

You can always order some Eco-Earth substrate online. That the awesome thing about this day and age, you can have anything you need delivered right to your doorstep!


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## Stan Schultz (Feb 23, 2013)

Gillroyale said:


> Good evening. I'm new to this forum and being a keeper. ...


Welcome!



Gillroyale said:


> ... I have a copy of the tarantula keepers guide, ...


Bless you my child! 

Do you know about the *Aftermarket Support Page*?



Gillroyale said:


> ... and live in a rural part of Michigan. ...


Alright, you can't leave me hanging like that! Near what town? (I hail from Lansing/E. Lansing.)



Gillroyale said:


> ... We have a feed store but they only have sand, more sand and wood chips. I would much prefer peat moss but wall mart is too far to walk. ...


As someone else mentioned, in this day and age that's no longer a huge crisis. With the Internet and a charge card you can get just about anything delivered to your front door within a couple days or a week. 

See *Shopping Failure*.



Gillroyale said:


> ... I just got my first tarantula. A Chilean rose. ...


Read *Care and Husbandry of the Chilean Rose Tarantula*.



Gillroyale said:


> ... I bought some jiffy organic soil for her ...


Read *Substrate*. Are you sure the feed store doesn't sell horticultural peat for bedding and garden plants? Especially this time of year?



Gillroyale said:


> ... I've been trying to sift it to remove all the little white styrofoam balls. ... It is 40-50% Sphagnum peat moss, composted bark, vermiculite, perlite, lime and organic wetting agent. ...


It isn't the Styrofoam you need to worry about. It's the composted wood byproducts!



Gillroyale said:


> ... I'm not sure about the wetting agent. ...


Common myth: Just because it's "natural and organic" doesn't mean it's harmless or safe. Where do you think we get nicotine bug killers? Curare for poison arrow tips? Strychnine rat poison? You can't *believe* anything unless you apply a little common sense and a hefty dose of outright distrust first.



Gillroyale said:


> ... The only thing I'm concerned about is the lime. ...


*Lime* is a bit problematic. In small concentrations it's probably irrelevant because tarantulas often dig burrows in soils that contain a lot of calcium compounds in one form or another. The issue here is how strongly concentrated is the lime in your substrate? My recommendation is to use either shredded coconut husk or horticultural peat moss instead, and avoid the issue entirely.



Gillroyale said:


> ... My options are slim ...


Only until you learn to "think outside the box," and explore other avenues. Then the whole world opens up!

In fact, you might better read the whole *Spiders, Calgary website*.


Enjoy your little 8-legged miracle!


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## poisoned (Feb 23, 2013)

I experienced no problems with potting soil, but thata doesn't mean you won't. Probably it would be okay, but I'd order coco husk if I were you.


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## MarkmD (Feb 23, 2013)

Just wanted to say, welcome to the hobby and forum, I don't need to say much cause the advice above^ pretty much covered everything, but once you have everything your Rosea needs and settled in, you basically only have to feed and change water you're Rosea will do the rest.


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## singaporesling (Feb 23, 2013)

I bought organic potting soil and it didnt have anything but a little vermiculite in it.   Thats probably what you think the styrofoam balls are.  Its harmless and a T can even live on pure vermiculite. Buy eco earth and use it forever.  Its always the same and you dont ever have to worry about it.  Soils and peat moss are great but they vary and organic can be hard to find


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## peterUK (Feb 23, 2013)

If you know that your yard hasnt been exposed to pesticides I would just scrap off the top few inches and dig up as much as you need. . . problem solved. 
You could have a quick look through the collected soil for any 'unwanted guests' like ants ect and if you are really paranoid, put the soil in the oven for a while to kill everything.  
I dont bake or microwave the soil that i use because I want the micro organisms that are in the the soil but there are some people who for some strange reason want a sterile environment for their tarantulas.


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## Gillroyale (Feb 23, 2013)

Thank you all for the replys and welcomes. 

I live in marlette which is between Sandusky and Imlay City. If you look at the mitten its the heart of the thumb.
I would order via the internet but I have no credit card. I am definitely going to check back with the feed store because I didn't check the horticultural section there.

I have actually done a good bit of reading on caring for my Chilean rose. Including caging, feeding, handling, and checking her for mights. I also know how to treat her for the nasty little parasites. 

And though I've read she doesn't enjoy it, I am still much enthused for the joy of holding her and letting her crawl a bit.
I do feel terrible returning her to her cage and watching her hang from the walls and trying to Houdini her way outta there for about an hour though, and can't help but wonder if that's why its advised against by so many lol.

I read that the vermiculite is sometimes not preferred by the t due to the springyness and sometimes, unexplainably, they dislike peat moss, and will spread a layer of silk over the portion they tread on out of discomfort. I was hoping to use the soil though for the look and ease of use. I know to strain out the wood. I just wondered if I could possibly rinse the lime from the dirt somehow or something. I know that may sound dumb.

Are those little white balls really vermiculite?

And what about the wetting agent? Does anyone think that may create too much humidity? 

Again, thank you all for the replys and welcomes.

---------- Post added 02-24-2013 at 12:34 AM ----------

There are a lot of farms nearby so I wouldn't trust the local soil at all. I would never bake dirt. My girl would kill me on general principle lol. 
What micro organisms do you want precisely and why?


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## singaporesling (Feb 24, 2013)

Its normal for your T to hang on the glass for hours like that.  I just got a 4iinch g.rosea in the mail for a relative and it did that for hours.  I changed my obt hide a few days ago and she stayed up on the glass for two hours.  When she slid down to the ground finally i herded her to where her hide was.  Do a google image search for vermiculite.  I would use soil from your yard then.....scoop up your t in a bowl wi t h lid, change the dirt, finish the setup and wait and see....put the T back in.....lol.  Mostly people sterilize potting soils and peats cuz you have no idea where its from or whats in it


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## Stan Schultz (Feb 24, 2013)

Gillroyale said:


> ... I live in marlette which is between Sandusky and Imlay City. ...


I know the area well. My mother's in a nursing home in Mayville. And, I'll be in that area around the first week in April.



Gillroyale said:


> ... And though I've read she doesn't enjoy it, I am still much enthused for the joy of holding her and letting her crawl a bit. ...


Don't believe everything you read! There are a lot of us who are convinced that we have had tarantulas that actually liked the physical contact! Just as there are humans with different personalities and different levels of IQ, so there are differences in tarantulas. Approach each one as an individual and explore what they're like and what you can do with them.



Gillroyale said:


> ... I do feel terrible returning her to her cage and watching her hang from the walls and trying to Houdini her way outta there for about an hour though, and can't help but wonder if that's why its advised against by so many lol. ...


Probably has nothing to do with being handled. For some reason it doesn't like either the cage or the substrate. Is the substrate bone dry?



Gillroyale said:


> ... I read that the vermiculite is sometimes not preferred by the t due to the springyness and sometimes, unexplainably, they dislike peat moss, ...


Some do. Some don't. Most get over it in a week or two.



Gillroyale said:


> ... and will spread a layer of silk over the portion they tread on out of discomfort. ...


That's pure, unsupported conjecture. Spiders are silk spinners. Tarantulas are spiders. Ergo, they also spin silk. Some more than others. Often huge amounts of silk because they're huge spiders. Spinning silk on the peat doesn't mean it dislikes the peat anymore than your placing a carpet on your floor means you hate the hardwood. All it means is that you want a carpet and your tarantula wants the silk.




Gillroyale said:


> ... I was hoping to use the soil though for the look and ease of use. I know to strain out the wood. I just wondered if I could possibly rinse the lime from the dirt somehow or something. I know that may sound dumb. ...


Not dumb. Just far more work than it's worth. Use either peat or shredded coconut husk and get on with your life.



Gillroyale said:


> ... Are those little white balls really vermiculite? ...


As a way of making potting soil look attractive and as a sales pitch, manufacturers added all sorts of things to it for "color." Most of the stuff they add is ineffective window dressing when the potting soil is used for plants. However, potting soil manufacturers aren't making their product for tarantulas, and make no claims - and indeed couldn't care less - about tarantulas. It's up to us to be aware of what we're doing and not expose our pets to something that may hurt them. Did you read *Substrate*? If not, stop reading here and read that webpage *NOW*.



Gillroyale said:


> ... And what about the wetting agent? Does anyone think that may create too much humidity? ...


The wetting agent has nothing whatsoever to do with humidity (the amount of water vapor dissolved in the air, see *Humidity*). The wetting agent (formally called a surfactant) reduces the surface tension of water so it wets the potting soil faster and more thoroughly. Sorry, I completely missed your mention of the wetting agent in your original post. Whatever it is, it can't be good for the tarantula since tarantulas come from the factory with a layer of a wax-like substance in and on their exoskeleton to prevent them from being wet by water, the direct antithesis of a wetting agent!

You're wasting too much time, effort, and stress on your current substrate. It's not acceptable. Get rid of it ASAP. Use either pure horticultural peat or shredded coconut husk. They're available from pet shops, garden and horticultural supplies and departments, and even from grocery and drug stores!


Best of luck with your little 8-legged miracle!


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## MarkmD (Feb 24, 2013)

I agree with Pikaia, you don't need to waste time on humidity or potting soil etc, I'll make it easy, completely dry substrate ether cocofiber, Eco-Earth will be fine, appropriate sized water dish and hide, temperature 75-79f, feed once a week on various feeders crickets, locusts, dubia roaches, meal/superworms, Rosea can be very picky on what they eat, mine only eats crickets for some reason others will eat anything offered, she may/will fast for ages sometimes just a week others for months at a time without warning, it's normal for Rosea to hang off the sides mine did for a time before settling in, now she never climbs.


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## philge (Feb 24, 2013)

Gillroyale said:


> I would order via the internet but I have no credit card.


You don't know anyone with a card who could order it for you? 

You can also buy an Amazon gift card at a lot of stores and even gas stations with cash and then use them to buy Eco Earth online. 

I'm just curious . . . How did you come into possession of this tarantula and The Tarantula Keeper's Guide if you live somewhere where you can't even find substrate?


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## Gillroyale (Feb 24, 2013)

Well, my girls oldest daughter got the t from her Bio father as a bday gift. I've kept regal jumping spiders and she was fascinated by them. I had the local library order the guide for me.

I totally agree that spiders, like us, have differing nuances and personalities. I'm glad to know I am amidst others who feel the same . I actually imagined when I replaced her, she was climbing the walls and saying "oh please don't put me back yet! I thought we were past this now! Please just let me live out there with you!" Lol.

I'm just gonna go find the peat moss. If I have to walk a couple miles that's fine with me.  I wouldn't want to use soil from around here. I'm surrounded by a lot of farms and wouldn't trust it. 

Again, thank you for the timely replies. Thanks especially to you Pikaia, for the help.


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## Gillroyale (Feb 26, 2013)

Well I got a ride and checked wall mart. To my distress they didn't have peat moss. If they did, it was outside and the outside area was closed. Then I went to a hardware store and they said they had something called peat. It turned out to be reed sedgr peat. 2$ for a 40 pound bag. I Google's and found that its more decomposed than peat moss and holds less water. These are both good things right? 

So! 

Any thoughts or advise? I haven't begun to do anything with it yet because it was frozen solid. So for now its in my bathtub chillen. Thawing actually lol.


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## zonbonzovi (Feb 26, 2013)

Pull out what you think you'll need and put it on a baking sheet.  You can either place it near the blower of your heat unit or carefully bake it at low temps in the oven(don't leave unattended).  If you have a wood/pellet stove, that is ideal.


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## Stan Schultz (Feb 26, 2013)

Gillroyale said:


> Well I got a ride and checked wall mart. To my distress they didn't have peat moss. If they did, it was outside and the outside area was closed. Then I went to a hardware store and they said they had something called peat. It turned out to be reed sedgr peat. 2$ for a 40 pound bag. I Google's and found that its more decomposed than peat moss and holds less water. These are both good things right?
> 
> So!
> 
> Any thoughts or advise? I haven't begun to do anything with it yet because it was frozen solid. So for now its in my bathtub chillen. Thawing actually lol.


These are more or less irrelevant things. As long as it isn't laced with surfactants, lime, composted wood byproducts, etc.

After it thaws a little, just take off what you'll need and retire the rest to your garage or storage area. You may not need any more until next year.


Enjoy your little 8-legged enigma.


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