# Aphonmpelma enclosure



## Gods Spartan (Oct 31, 2016)

I think this is plenty for my Arizona Blonde. Is it too small or just right?

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## 14pokies (Oct 31, 2016)

That enclosure is functional but some aphnos will burrow or atleast tunnel around the sides of the enclosure.. the next time you rehouse it I would reccomend giving it an enclosure that can hold 10-12 inches of sub.

@EulersK absolutely LOVES  this extremely active species so maybe he has some sound caging advice to pass on to you...

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## Redneck (Oct 31, 2016)

Personally, I'd leave it how it is. Adequate hide, water dish. They are not obligate burrowers. If it decides to redecorate, it can. If it don't, then it won't. 

But, that's my opinion. Others may keep them differently and like their setup more elaborate.

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## Walker253 (Oct 31, 2016)

14pokies said:


> That enclosure is functional but some aphnos will burrow or atleast tunnel around the sides of the enclosure.. the next time you rehouse it I would reccomend giving it an enclosure that can hold 10-12 inches of sub.


10-12"? I don't give my deep burrowers 10-12" of substrate. That would be a big container that would likely go unused. I think if a rehouse happened 4 inches of sub would be optimum. But really I think it looks good. She can move substrate around if she chooses.


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## EulersK (Oct 31, 2016)

Agreed, it looks perfectly fine to me. Kudos for setting up a good enclosure. The A. chalcodes (what you have) has never burrowed under my care. Excavation is a hobby at most for this species. 

@14pokies, I think you were thinking of A. seemanni for the burrowing active species. A. chalcodes isn't _that_ active. Still, both are must haves in any collection

Reactions: Agree 1


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## EulersK (Oct 31, 2016)

Walker253 said:


> 10-12"? I don't give my deep burrowers 10-12" of substrate.


I've got a C. darlingi in a tea jug with about 20" of substrate. It's gone straight to the bottom and made a network all along the sides. If you give it, they will usually use it. Now, do they _need_ it? I doubt that, honestly.

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## Spidermolt (Oct 31, 2016)

14pokies said:


> That enclosure is functional but some aphnos will burrow or atleast tunnel around the sides of the enclosure.. the next time you rehouse it I would reccomend giving it an enclosure that can hold 10-12 inches of sub.
> 
> @EulersK absolutely LOVES  this extremely active species so maybe he has some sound caging advice to pass on to you...


I agree 100% with 14pokies. I just wanted to say that from my experience with Aphonopelmas they seem like they do strongly require/prefer a little deeper substrate of at least 9 inches

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## Walker253 (Oct 31, 2016)

EulersK said:


> I've got a C. darlingi in a tea jug with about 20" of substrate. It's gone straight to the bottom and made a network all along the sides. If you give it, they will usually use it. Now, do they _need_ it? I doubt that, honestly.


That would be cool to see. The deepest den maintained in my collection is my H gigas at about 9". She made a nice cavern at the bottom with a cool looking entrance hole.

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## 14pokies (Oct 31, 2016)

Walker253 said:


> 10-12"? I don't give my deep burrowers 10-12" of substrate.


I have a 2inch balfouri on 6 inches of sub and he has dug down the bottom of his enclosure. I keep haplos on no less than 10 inches of sub.. I don't have space for big deep enclosures at the moment and that's why I don't keep haplos right now..

Maybe chalcodes act different but I have had 3 hentzi and I housed 2 of them in enclosures with 8 inches of soil both dug around the sides to the bottom.. 

Don't chalcodes live in burrows in the wild?

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## 14pokies (Oct 31, 2016)

Walker253 said:


> That would be cool to see. The deepest den maintained in my collection is my H gigas at about 9". She made a nice cavern at the bottom with a cool looking entrance hole.


Unless she is about 2 inches it's ten inches short of having a proper amount of sub Lol.. I have heard that this species along with P. muticus have been found in burrows that are deeper than 10 feet..

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## EulersK (Oct 31, 2016)

Walker253 said:


> That would be cool to see. The deepest den maintained in my collection is my H gigas at about 9". She made a nice cavern at the bottom with a cool looking entrance hole.


I've noticed that large burrowers like that don't burrow very deep, they prefer to make long shallow burrows. They don't go straight down like a Ceratogyrus. So that may be why we're seeing a discrepancy here. 



14pokies said:


> Don't chalcodes live in burrows in the wild?


So do most Brachys


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## 14pokies (Oct 31, 2016)

EulersK said:


> Agreed, it looks perfectly fine to me. Kudos for setting up a good enclosure. The A. chalcodes (what you have) has never burrowed under my care. Excavation is a hobby at most for this species.
> 
> @14pokies, I think you were thinking of A. seemanni for the burrowing active species. A. chalcodes isn't _that_ active. Still, both are must haves in any collection


No man I had hentzi that dug and then chilled on the top of the sub like baked potatoes ... 

I do agree that aphnos in general are great Ts especially for newer hobbyists that need a slower moving extremely hardy T.. 
I can also see why so many seasoned keepers like them as well I just love bustin your jigglys!

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## 14pokies (Oct 31, 2016)

EulersK said:


> I've noticed that large burrowers like that don't burrow very deep, they prefer to make long shallow burrows. They don't go straight down like a Ceratogyrus. So that may be why we're seeing a discrepancy here.
> 
> 
> 
> So do most Brachys


Don't get me started on brachys.. You will hate me even more than you already do!

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## Walker253 (Oct 31, 2016)

14pokies said:


> Unless she is about 2 inches it's ten inches short of having a proper amount of sub Lol.. I have heard that this species along with P. muticus have been found in burrows that are deeper than 10 feet..


Considering I have an 8' ceiling, I think my P muticus will have to do with what she's got.

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## 14pokies (Oct 31, 2016)

Walker253 said:


> Considering I have an 8' ceiling, I think my P muticus will have to do with what she's got.


A 55 gallon trash can is only about 4 feet tall ..

I'm not saying we need to give O/Bs all the space they would have in the wild but I think we should give them as much as possible within reason..   I know that I won't get a P.mut or H.gigas unless I can house it in 29g tall and imo that's bare minimum..


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## Walker253 (Oct 31, 2016)

14pokies said:


> A 55 gallon trash can is only about 4 feet tall ..


LMAO, I love this, hahahaha. Four or five of those would look awesome in my living room.

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## Walker253 (Oct 31, 2016)

To the OP, sorry your thread got hijacked. Your setup still looks good.

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## 14pokies (Oct 31, 2016)

Walker253 said:


> LMAO, I love this, hahahaha. Four or five of those would look awesome in my living room.


Well it deffinately sends the message you are a dedicated keeper.. And slightly mad ...

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## ErinM31 (Nov 1, 2016)

Gods Spartan said:


> I think this is plenty for my Arizona Blonde. Is it too small or just right?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Gorgeous T!  And that looks like a good set-up to me. My adult female like to hang out in her cave (so premade borrow of sorts although she did some additional excavation) and comes out when she's hungry. I would not describe her as particularly active but rather calm.

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## Gods Spartan (Nov 1, 2016)

Btw, the hide is a red solo cup! I hot glue coco fiber to it...looks pretty spiffy. The wife and I have made variations where we will glue moss on the out side to accommodate some moisture/humidity dependent species in our care.

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## KezyGLA (Nov 1, 2016)

Gods Spartan said:


> I think this is plenty for my Arizona Blonde. Is it too small or just right?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You my man, are one lucky bugger!!!!!

That is A. moderatum (Rio Grande Gold) and I have been looking for one for years.


I envy you

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## ErinM31 (Nov 1, 2016)

Gods Spartan said:


> Btw, the hide is a red solo cup! I hot glue coco fiber to it...looks pretty spiffy. The wife and I have made variations where we will glue moss on the out side to accommodate some moisture/humidity dependent species in our care.


Does it hold up to adult tarantulas sitting on top of them? Several of my T's like to perch on top of their hides and is how I made a smaller enclosure work for my _A. chalcodes_ -- it is effectively bi-level.


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## ErinM31 (Nov 1, 2016)

KezyGLA said:


> You, my man are one lucky bugger!!!!!
> 
> That is A. moderatum (Rio Grande Gold) and I have been looking for one for years.
> 
> ...


Oh! Is that why the T looks lighter overall than _A. chalcodes_? I thought it was just variation. I think they're one of the more defensive Aphonopelma species but very beautiful -- and can be found along the Rio Grande in Texas... hmm...

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## KezyGLA (Nov 1, 2016)

ErinM31 said:


> Oh! Is that why the T looks lighter overall than _A. chalcodes_? I thought it was just variation. I think they're one of the more defensive Aphonopelma species but very beautiful -- and can be found along the Rio Grande in Texas... hmm...


Yes it is. The golden appearance can throw people to chalcodes as moderatums are usually rust coloured as adults but with those distinctive dark grey/black areas on the knees and front of the carapace around the eyes, with the lack of black or brown on the femurs says moderatum. An amazing species and very tricky to get a hold of. I wish there was as many of these on the market in UK as there is A. chalcodes.

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## Leonardo the Mage (Nov 1, 2016)

It could be A. chalcodes, it could be A. moderatum. They look very similar, and natural colour variations in both species mean that it is even harder to tell what she is. If it is an A. moderatum, I have a male I might intrest you in...

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## KezyGLA (Nov 1, 2016)

Leonardo the Mage said:


> It could be A. chalcodes, it could be A. moderatum. They look very similar, and natural colour variations in both species mean that it is even harder to tell what she is. If it is an A. moderatum, I have a male I might intrest you in...


Hmmm .. I have seen moderatums with completely golden/rust carapaces but have never seen chalcodes with the dark triangle around the eyes.


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## Gods Spartan (Nov 1, 2016)

ErinM31 said:


> Does it hold up to adult tarantulas sitting on top of them? Several of my T's like to perch on top of their hides and is how I made a smaller enclosure work for my _A. chalcodes_ -- it is effectively bi-level.


 The chalcodes walks on it without give. I have one for a bigger pulchripies but I haven't observed her on it just yet.


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## Gods Spartan (Nov 1, 2016)

My bad guys...I believe Kezy is right. It is a moderatum. I looked online to educate myself. Think the chalcodes gets bigger and is has a bit more black on the legs. The moderatum is smaller I believe and has less black.


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## ErinM31 (Nov 1, 2016)

Gods Spartan said:


> My bad guys...I believe Kezy is right. It is a moderatum. I looked online to educate myself. Think the chalcodes gets bigger and is has a bit more black on the legs. The moderatum is smaller I believe and has less black.


Where did you acquire this lovely tarantula?

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## Gods Spartan (Nov 1, 2016)

ErinM31 said:


> Where did you acquire this lovely tarantula?


I bought it from someone I know. He has had it for a while, but is looking at getting out of the hobby.... albeit it sounds temporarily as he still very much has a passion for it from what I can tell.


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## Leonardo the Mage (Nov 1, 2016)

What is her temperament like? moderatums usually have a very defensive temperament for aphonopelma.


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## KezyGLA (Nov 1, 2016)

ErinM31 said:


> Where did you acquire this lovely tarantula?


If I was in the US I would also be asking


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## ErinM31 (Nov 1, 2016)

KezyGLA said:


> If I was in the US I would also be asking


Does one require a license or something to buy/sell overseas? (My apologies if that's a dumb question. I've just never looked into it, especially since the U.S. is stupid when it comes to importing harmless inverts such as millipedes.  )


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## Gods Spartan (Nov 1, 2016)

Leonardo the Mage said:


> What is her temperament like? moderatums usually have a very defensive temperament for aphonopelma.


She is a little skiddish it seems, but the guy I bought it from handled her and even used the cup method to hold her. I have handled her a few times already. Hasn't shown a threat posture, but has bolted once and not very far. Had her enclosure on the floor at the time.


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## KezyGLA (Nov 1, 2016)

ErinM31 said:


> Does one require a license or something to buy/sell overseas? (My apologies if that's a dumb question. I've just never looked into it, especially since the U.S. is stupid when it comes to importing harmless inverts such as millipedes.  )


I am not sure. I haven't shipped anywhere outside of the EU but I would expect there to be certain import/export fees and paperwork requires for animals sent between EU and US.


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## ErinM31 (Nov 1, 2016)

KezyGLA said:


> I am not sure. I haven't shipped anywhere outside of the EU but I would expect there to be certain import/export fees and paperwork requires for animals sent between EU and US.


Perhaps it shall be worth looking into if you really want _A. moderatum_ and they aren't currently in the EU hobby. It is premature for me to think about since I have not actually found any yet but they are supposed to be plentiful along the Rio Grande...

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## KezyGLA (Nov 1, 2016)

ErinM31 said:


> Perhaps it shall be worth looking into if you really want _A. moderatum_ and they aren't currently in the EU hobby. It is premature for me to think about since I have not actually found any yet but they are supposed to be plentiful along the Rio Grande...


I am not so sure they are that easy to come across even along the Rio Grande. I think @Austin S. may be the man to talk to about that.

 I would do anything for one aha. There was someone on Facebook selling her unsexed juvenile for £210 collection only. I was considering driving to England and all the way south to pick it up. 

I try not to worry about it too much. I keep telling myself that they will be back in the hobby soon


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## ErinM31 (Nov 1, 2016)

KezyGLA said:


> I am not so sure they are that easy to come across even along the Rio Grande. I think @Austin S. may be the man to talk to about that.
> 
> I would do anything for one aha. There was someone on Facebook selling her unsexed juvenile for £210 collection only. I was considering driving to England and all the way south to pick it up.
> 
> I try not to worry about it too much. I keep telling myself that they will be back in the hobby soon


According to the 2016 paper on the _Aphonopelma_ genus in the U.S. by Hamilton et al., it sounds like they are plentiful in their range. It's worth a try and I may find some millipedes too while I am out there.  While I by no means limit my collection to North America, I do like to focus on collecting and culturing our native species. And while there is always demand for the biggest and the most colorful, I do appreciate the subtle beauty of the under-appreciated _Aphonopelma_ tarantulas.

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## dopamine (Nov 1, 2016)

14pokies said:


> Don't chalcodes live in burrows in the wild?


Yes they do, but they're often old mouse burrows. I don't think they actually do the digging themselves, as the soil is too hard around here.


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## 14pokies (Nov 1, 2016)

dopamine said:


> Yes they do, but they're often old mouse burrows. I don't think they actually do the digging themselves, as the soil is too hard around here.


Lol! I knew that but thanks! I was asking walker because he was refuting my claims that aphnos can benefit from deeper sub..

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## Austin S. (Nov 1, 2016)

Yes, definitely A. moderatum.

We conducted research this past August in locations near the Rio Grande. I will not disclose locality information, however I can honestly say that more than a few people have read the revision, and entirely wiped those locations OUT. Each location on the paper was empty when we arrived to them. All that we found were A. anax. However we did not come back empty handed. We will hopefully preserve this species, as well as get it back into the hobby, with the few pairs we picked up.
Here is one of my breeding pairs. Both male and female were collected in the same area, and are both the same size (3")
Female top, male bottom.





Second 3" female which was collected in the same area, freshly molted.






If I prove to be successful with these females, slings will be exported into the UK.

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## ErinM31 (Nov 1, 2016)

Austin S. said:


> Yes, definitely A. moderatum.
> 
> We conducted research this past August in locations near the Rio Grande. I will not disclose locality information, however I can honestly say that more than a few people have read the revision, and entirely wiped those locations OUT. Each location on the paper was empty when we arrived to them. All that we found were A. anax. However we did not come back empty handed. We will hopefully preserve this species, as well as get it back into the hobby, with the few pairs we picked up.
> Here is one of my breeding pairs. Both male and female were collected in the same area, and are both the same size (3")
> ...


Wow, I would not have expected there to be so much interest and it's terrible that they were over-collected like that!  It's shocking how the population could go from being seen everywhere as described in the review to just... gone...
I really hope that you are successful in breeding and maintaining this species!!!

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## Austin S. (Nov 1, 2016)

ErinM31 said:


> Wow, I would not have expected there to be so much interest and it's terrible that they were over-collected like that!  It's shocking how the population could go from being seen everywhere as described in the review to just... gone...
> I really hope that you are successful in breeding and maintaining this species!!!



I have to agree. Here in Oklahoma, you can find A. hentzi almost everywhere you look out in the field. Literally theres an adult burrow every 3 ft.

Down there, absolutely no adults anywhere to be found. Four days and an avg. of 31 miles of walking each day, and no adults. Mostly 3/4"-1.5" moderatum. Within 300 yards, you may find one. Very, very sad.

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## ErinM31 (Nov 1, 2016)

Austin S. said:


> I have to agree. Here in Oklahoma, you can find A. hentzi almost everywhere you look out in the field. Literally theres an adult burrow every 3 ft.
> 
> Down there, absolutely no adults anywhere to be found. Four days and an avg. of 31 miles of walking each day, and no adults. Mostly 3/4"-1.5" moderatum. Within 300 yards, you may find one. Very, very sad.


Maybe it's a stupid question but why would this happen??? It's not like they were previously unknown and indeed, are mentioned in a tarantula care book as the one member of the genus you might not wish to keep because they can be more defensive. What made people suddenly want that species in particular and so much so that the population has basically been stripmined?


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## Austin S. (Nov 1, 2016)

I can literally name a few names as to who wiped them out.
There is one person who comes there once a year for a week and collects.
I know this because we were pulled over several times by local police, state troopers, and border control, every day we were there.
After a lot of questions on my end, we found information in regards to them being mia.
Also, there are two main dealers that have paid off locals to collect. One which collected several hundred adults in 2012-2013, and sold them. This species, as well as bicoloratum are quickly becoming extinct in nature.

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## KezyGLA (Nov 1, 2016)

ErinM31 said:


> According to the 2016 paper on the _Aphonopelma_ genus in the U.S. by Hamilton et al., it sounds like they are plentiful in their range. It's worth a try and I may find some millipedes too while I am out there.  While I by no means limit my collection to North America, I do like to focus on collecting and culturing our native species. And while there is always demand for the biggest and the most colorful, I do appreciate the subtle beauty of the under-appreciated _Aphonopelma_ tarantulas.


Well then.. Keep me in mind. I would go through whatever process possible to obtain a few pairs of these


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## KezyGLA (Nov 1, 2016)

Austin S. said:


> I can literally name a few names as to who wiped them out.
> There is one person who comes there once a year for a week and collects.
> I know this because we were pulled over several times by local police, state troopers, and border control, every day we were there.
> After a lot of questions on my end, we found information in regards to them being mia.
> Also, there are two main dealers that have paid off locals to collect. One which collected several hundred adults in 2012-2013, and sold them. This species, as well as bicoloratum are quickly becoming extinct in nature.


See this is what I thought. I know the bicoloratum was suffering aswell. It does my head in when big ego'd dealers pull huge hoards of specimens from the wild. Urban development and agricultural companies are damaging enough. But if there has been papers released this year saying they are on the rise again then thats great news.

@ErinM31 Where can I read these for myself?


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## Austin S. (Nov 1, 2016)

KezyGLA said:


> Well then.. Keep me in mind. I would go through whatever process possible to obtain a few pairs of these


Well they would not be pairs.
Local pairs will not be sold, nor shipped out of country.
For now, they are strictly for US breeders. What will eventually be imported into the UK will be slings.
That is unless we can collect much more breeding pairs, and we can find the right Aphonopelma breeders over there.

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## KezyGLA (Nov 1, 2016)

Austin S. said:


> Well they would not be pairs.
> Local pairs will not be sold, nor shipped out of country.
> For now, they are strictly for US breeders. What will eventually be imported into the UK will be slings.
> That is unless we can collect much more breeding pairs, and we can find the right Aphonopelma breeders over there.


I was late to the party and super confused myself. Didn't read page 3 until now. If the habitats have been ripped to shreds then of course not. I was away in a bubble thinking my luck was in..

But I kept in mind what you said on IG. I never knew that papers were revised and released on this sp..

So the damage is already done. That didnt take long at all

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## ErinM31 (Nov 1, 2016)

KezyGLA said:


> See this is what I thought. I know the bicoloratum was suffering aswell. It does my head in when big ego'd dealers pull huge hoards of specimens from the wild. Urban development and agricultural companies are damaging enough. But if there has been papers released this year saying they are on the rise again then thats great news.
> 
> @ErinM31 Where can I read these for myself?


I fear the information in the paper saying that they were common was before they were stripped from the land. 

Unfortunately, the article is not open access: http://zookeys.pensoft.net/articles.php?id=6264
I think the authors may have posted it on ResearchGate, however. (Send me a PM)



Austin S. said:


> For now, they are strictly for US breeders. What will eventually be imported into the UK will be slings. That is unless we can collect much more breeding pairs, and we can find the right Aphonopelma breeders over there.


I am probably too much of a newb to qualify but I would definitely be interested! I can definitely raise slings! I want to do my part to preserve this species. I wanted one too, but my thought to collect a tarantula or two was based on my thinking this species was not that popular in the hobby and were yet abundant in the wild. I will not go searching now.


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## KezyGLA (Nov 1, 2016)

I would happily wait until slings were available. I would buy as many as I could and also be super happy about raising them to maturity

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## ErinM31 (Nov 1, 2016)

KezyGLA said:


> I was late to the party and super confused myself. Didn't read page 3 until now. If the habitats have been ripped to shreds then of course not. I was away in a bubble thinking my luck was in..
> 
> But I kept in mind what you said on IG. I never knew that papers were revised and released on this sp..
> 
> So the damage is already done. That didnt take long at all


Sorry! I'm super disappointed and saddened too!  A few greedy people would take this species from the environment and everyone else now and future!

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## ErinM31 (Nov 1, 2016)

KezyGLA said:


> I would happily wait until slings were available. I would buy as many as I could and also be super happy about raising them to maturity


Me too! Raising slings is very rewarding!

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## Jeff23 (Nov 1, 2016)

Austin S. said:


> I can literally name a few names as to who wiped them out.
> There is one person who comes there once a year for a week and collects.
> I know this because we were pulled over several times by local police, state troopers, and border control, every day we were there.
> After a lot of questions on my end, we found information in regards to them being mia.
> Also, there are two main dealers that have paid off locals to collect. One which collected several hundred adults in 2012-2013, and sold them. This species, as well as bicoloratum are quickly becoming extinct in nature.


It is too bad that posts like this one can't be posted as a sticky note somewhere.  I keep seeing people rationalize the taking of the chalcodes from the wild. It would not surprise me to see it join this list eventually as well. They are for sale at $50 for an adult female on many tarantula shop sites.


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## AphonopelmaTX (Nov 1, 2016)

Austin S. said:


> Yes, definitely A. moderatum.
> 
> We conducted research this past August in locations near the Rio Grande. I will not disclose locality information, however I can honestly say that more than a few people have read the revision, and entirely wiped those locations OUT. Each location on the paper was empty when we arrived to them.


How many field trips and how many different times of the year did it take to come to the conclusion that your checked locations have been wiped out?  I would think you couldn't come to that conclusion based on one field trip during the hottest month of the year in Texas.

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## Gods Spartan (Nov 1, 2016)

Austin S. said:


> Yes, definitely A. moderatum.
> 
> We conducted research this past August in locations near the Rio Grande. I will not disclose locality information, however I can honestly say that more than a few people have read the revision, and entirely wiped those locations OUT. Each location on the paper was empty when we arrived to them. All that we found were A. anax. However we did not come back empty handed. We will hopefully preserve this species, as well as get it back into the hobby, with the few pairs we picked up.
> Here is one of my breeding pairs. Both male and female were collected in the same area, and are both the same size (3")
> ...


I wound up with this specimen thinking it was a chalcodes, but I must say it was a pleasant surprise to find out what I had on my hands.

Knowing more about them, I might inquire on finding a breeder. Is it one if those specimens where it is all hands on deck to keep their numbers up? 

I have never packed a T before and would absolutely hate to have something happen in transit so I would need to find someone local to the Carolinas if I felt compelled to. Thoughts?

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## Leonardo the Mage (Nov 2, 2016)

I have a male who can be shipped out if someone knows how to get them down to the states. He matured this summer, and is still eating and making sperm webs. He should still be good to breed.

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## Austin S. (Nov 2, 2016)

AphonopelmaTX said:


> How many field trips and how many different times of the year did it take to come to the conclusion that your checked locations have been wiped out?  I would think you couldn't come to that conclusion based on one field trip during the hottest month of the year in Texas.


It was only during August when we went.
There were four total people. We checked each GPS location for our surrounding area, which consisted of driving a few hundred miles day and night to get to them. There are several other locations we could not make it to, however these are the particular ones that are empty:
-0.59 miles E US-277 on FM-693
-7.8 miles W Hwy-131 on Hwy-90 (W of Brackettville)
-4.6 miles ESE Eagle Pass (jct US-57) on US-277
-off dirt road near Hwy-277
-1.93 miles NE Zavala County Line on FM-481
-Uvalde, near Nueces River
-0.25 miles N Kinney County Line on Hwy-277
-4.3 miles E Loop-20 on US-59 at Los Tios Creek
-10.15 miles SE Maverick County Line on Eagle Pass Rd
There are a few more spots we checked, however I cannot find them on the revision for some reason. One was a picnic area S. HWY 277.
We could only spend a few days there because of work schedules. However during that short amount of time, we did cover a lot of ground, both day and night. With four very experienced T hunters, we didn't miss much. However, the locations above, do not have moderatum anymore. Unless we came during a bad time of the year?


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## ErinM31 (Nov 2, 2016)

Austin S. said:


> It was only during August when we went.
> 
> However during that short amount of time, we did cover a lot of ground, both day and night. With four very experienced T hunters, we didn't miss much. However, the locations above, do not have moderatum anymore. Unless we came during a bad time of the year?


I have zero experience hunting T's (unless the time I've spent searching but finding nothing more than an impressive wolf spider counts for anything  ), but wouldn't one expect to find tarantulas in their burrows any time of year? In the winter perhaps they might seal off their burrows with more than webbing (I don't know, just conjecture), but shouldn't they be equally easy or difficult to find the rest of the year? It would seem to me that only mature males would have a season when they can be found wandering in search of love.

Please correct me if I am mistaken!


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## Austin S. (Nov 2, 2016)

ErinM31 said:


> I have zero experience hunting T's (unless the time I've spent searching but finding nothing more than an impressive wolf spider counts for anything  ), but wouldn't one expect to find tarantulas in their burrows any time of year? In the winter perhaps they might seal off their burrows with more than webbing (I don't know, just conjecture), but shouldn't they be equally easy or difficult to find the rest of the year? It would seem to me that only mature males would have a season when they can be found wandering in search of love.
> 
> Please correct me if I am mistaken!


It differs from species to species. Some locals and other hobbyists told me that you would only be able to find adult moderatum during May-July. After that the adults plug their burrows up. Which makes absolutely no sense to me. Not sure I can entirely believe that.
The time we went was probably the worse time to go though. The thickness of the grass was almost impeccable, and up to your thighs or higher. Going earlier in the year would be a better idea as it would not be as thick.

Certain Aphonopelma species, mostly dwarf species, can only be found during September-November in the surround AZ areas. Months before and after those dates, the burrows are plugged. It is very interesting to me.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## ErinM31 (Nov 2, 2016)

Austin S. said:


> It was only during August when we went.
> There were four total people. We checked each GPS location for our surrounding area, which consisted of driving a few hundred miles day and night to get to them. There are several other locations we could not make it to, however these are the particular ones that are empty:
> -0.59 miles E US-277 on FM-693
> -7.8 miles W Hwy-131 on Hwy-90 (W of Brackettville)
> ...


Another thought -- we had REALLY heavy rain earlier this year. Could many have been flooded out of their burrows and forced to relocate? I don't know where to but...


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## ErinM31 (Nov 2, 2016)

Austin S. said:


> It differs from species to species. Some locals and other hobbyists told me that you would only be able to find adult moderatum during May-July. After that the adults plug their burrows up. Which makes absolutely no sense to me. Not sure I can entirely believe that.
> The time we went was probably the worse time to go though. The thickness of the grass was almost impeccable, and up to your thighs or higher. Going earlier in the year would be a better idea as it would not be as thick.
> 
> Certain Aphonopelma species, mostly dwarf species, can only be found during September-November in the surround AZ areas. Months before and after those dates, the burrows are plugged. It is very interesting to me.


All hope is not lost then.  Maybe if only for the grass they will be findable in the late spring/early summer? Perhaps the population took a hit from over-collecting (and maybe the heavy rain too?) but hopefully, they are doing better than they appeared when you looked in August.

Thank you for the info!


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## dopamine (Nov 2, 2016)

Austin S. said:


> I can literally name a few names as to who wiped them out..


Put them on blast. Who are they?


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## ErinM31 (Nov 2, 2016)

dopamine said:


> Put them on blast. Who are they?


I asked @Austin S. and they're collecting evidence and info.

Reactions: Like 1


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## AphonopelmaTX (Nov 2, 2016)

Austin S. said:


> We could only spend a few days there because of work schedules. However during that short amount of time, we did cover a lot of ground, both day and night. With four very experienced T hunters, we didn't miss much. However, the locations above, do not have moderatum anymore. Unless we came during a bad time of the year?


It's possible you did go at a bad time of the year.  I had to ask how many field trips it took to determine your conclusion that the areas you mentioned have been wiped out because tarantula populations do experience seasonal fluctuations as you pointed out with the dwarf species in AZ areas.  Here in the Dallas area, A. hentzi also do this.  During the mating season that begins at the beginning of June, adults can be found everywhere in their isolated populations then taper off later in the year to when August comes around, adults are scarce while only smaller immatures can be found. It's amazing to watch a busy thriving group of giant spiders suddenly disappear like they do. This is similar to what you described for your trip finding A. moderatum.  I keep track of two specific populations of A. hentzi here in Dallas and I was only able to determine that they were stable after several years of keeping track of their numbers and visiting them at different times of the year.  One month too early or late and they can't be found giving a false positive that an area doesn't harbor tarantulas.



Austin S. said:


> It differs from species to species. Some locals and other hobbyists told me that you would only be able to find adult moderatum during May-July. After that the adults plug their burrows up. Which makes absolutely no sense to me. Not sure I can entirely believe that.
> 
> Certain Aphonopelma species, mostly dwarf species, can only be found during September-November in the surround AZ areas. Months before and after those dates, the burrows are plugged. It is very interesting to me.


What doesn't make sense about seasonal burrow plugging in A. moderatum?  You pointed it out for the AZ dwarfs below, why wouldn't you think it happens for the species with spring/ early summer mating season?  I'm kind of confused on that one.  A. hentzi have the same mating season as A. moderatum and I can tell you for certain they plug their burrows starting in July.  They even plug and unplug burrows off and on throughout the summer which makes their population numbers seem like they vary.  From my observations, it seems the hotter it gets the more burrows are plugged.

I hope you don't take any of this as harsh criticism or anything like that.  I'm very interested in the seasonal activity of Aphonopelma moderatum and wish to know more about their habitat and how similar they are in habit to their North Texas cousins. It is just that one can't make a conclusion of a tarantula population's numbers based on one field trip because of burrow plugging and unplugging through out the year.  It doesn't matter how experienced a tarantula hunter is, once those burrows are plugged they can't be found at all!

Reactions: Informative 3


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## ErinM31 (Nov 2, 2016)

AphonopelmaTX said:


> It's possible you did go at a bad time of the year.  I had to ask how many field trips it took to determine your conclusion that the areas you mentioned have been wiped out because tarantula populations do experience seasonal fluctuations as you pointed out with the dwarf species in AZ areas.  Here in the Dallas area, A. hentzi also do this.  During the mating season that begins at the beginning of June, adults can be found everywhere in their isolated populations then taper off later in the year to when August comes around, adults are scarce while only smaller immatures can be found. It's amazing to watch a busy thriving group of giant spiders suddenly disappear like they do. This is similar to what you described for your trip finding A. moderatum.  I keep track of two specific populations of A. hentzi here in Dallas and I was only able to determine that they were stable after several years of keeping track of their numbers and visiting them at different times of the year.  One month too early or late and they can't be found giving a false positive that an area doesn't harbor tarantulas.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you for the information and this is QUITE a relief to hear!!! Since I live on the far west side of San Antonio, it isn't too far of a drive for me to make the trip a few times next spring/early summer and I can let you all know what I find.  Granted, I'm not an experienced T hunter but that means that if I can find them, they probably really are doing well indeed!


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## Austin S. (Nov 2, 2016)

AphonopelmaTX said:


> It's possible you did go at a bad time of the year.  I had to ask how many field trips it took to determine your conclusion that the areas you mentioned have been wiped out because tarantula populations do experience seasonal fluctuations as you pointed out with the dwarf species in AZ areas.  Here in the Dallas area, A. hentzi also do this.  During the mating season that begins at the beginning of June, adults can be found everywhere in their isolated populations then taper off later in the year to when August comes around, adults are scarce while only smaller immatures can be found. It's amazing to watch a busy thriving group of giant spiders suddenly disappear like they do. This is similar to what you described for your trip finding A. moderatum.  I keep track of two specific populations of A. hentzi here in Dallas and I was only able to determine that they were stable after several years of keeping track of their numbers and visiting them at different times of the year.  One month too early or late and they can't be found giving a false positive that an area doesn't harbor tarantulas.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That is some great news I was looking for.

I myself have three large groups of A. hentzi that I monitor every year, at three different locations. Here in Bartlesville, burrows are open from May-Early October, for each adult hentzi in those groups. I based my moderatum observation on just that. I figured since they are not too far South from here (I know they are a few hundred miles away), I just took it upon myself that the seasons were the same, based on the groups I observe here.

Thank you so much for the very detailed post. It clears up quite a bit for me!
Much appreciated!


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## AphonopelmaTX (Nov 2, 2016)

Austin S. said:


> That is some great news I was looking for.
> 
> I myself have three large groups of A. hentzi that I monitor every year, at three different locations. Here in Bartlesville, burrows are open from May-Early October, for each adult hentzi in those groups. I based my moderatum observation on just that. I figured since they are not too far South from here (I know they are a few hundred miles away), I just took it upon myself that the seasons were the same, based on the groups I observe here.
> 
> ...


See, now that is very interesting to learn about your observations with A. hentzi in Oklahoma.  I really enjoy comparing field observations with others to get a better overall view of the yearly habits of different tarantulas in different areas whether they are the same species or not.

I was trying to be very careful in how I composed my response to your statement about A. moderatum being wiped out in the locales you looked in because they may very well have been over collected from those areas. Then again it could be a situation of right place, but wrong time.  I've never been to South Texas myself to look for A. moderatum or A. anax so I wouldn't know for sure.  I hope you and your team get back down there and search the same areas some more.  Also worth mentioning... when it comes to finding populations, always go by what the local residents tell you.   They know better than anyone and it's by asking local residents about tarantulas in their neighborhoods that I've been able to find them.

Reactions: Like 1


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## viper69 (Nov 2, 2016)

@Gods Spartan I personally like to give my Ts of that size a bit more room to walk around. You could go deeper, but I suspect it will be fine.



14pokies said:


> A 55 gallon trash can is only about 4 feet tall


I hear they are quite fashionable in black, set against the couch arm in the living room serving as both end table and T home.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## ScarySpiderM (Sep 22, 2017)

Where is a good area that I can go look? I'm in okc



Austin S. said:


> I have to agree. Here in Oklahoma, you can find A. hentzi almost everywhere you look out in the field. Literally theres an adult burrow every 3 ft.
> 
> Down there, absolutely no adults anywhere to be found. Four days and an avg. of 31 miles of walking each day, and no adults. Mostly 3/4"-1.5" moderatum. Within 300 yards, you may find one. Very, very sad.


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