# Please Help ASAP  Liocheles waigiensis problems :(!



## Justblayzee (Dec 1, 2011)

Hello everyone today i received a male & female Liocheles waigiensis (Northern rainforest scorpion) Which cost me $65 for both.
I put them in there tank which is very big with about 4 hides, as soon as i got them the male ran to his hide for about 5 hours & the female sat around doing nothing, i decided to pick her up just to feel what it's like as these are my first scorpion but ever since then she hasn't moved very much at all. She's not in her hide & has had the cricket sit on her for about 5 seconds then decided to move her claw & then hasn't moved since it's been about 5 hours of no movement i decided to see if she's alive by just putting my finger near her & she moved the slightest bit were as the male is active as anything such as Running around exploring, trying to climb the glass, climbing his fake tree & has lapped his tank about 20 times. Is there something wrong with the female? I've had absolutely no help from the guy i bought them from even though he claims he has been doing it for 30 years. They have't had any water drinks of water yet either . Also if anyone could give me any tips on keeping them like feedings what size crickets & such.
Thanks is advance.
Blayze.


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## Keister (Dec 1, 2011)

Do you have them under any sort of heat lamp at all? If they are cold they become very lazy and inactive. This may be your problem but I am not positive. It could also be alot of stress from shipping. Crickets are all based off the size of each scorpion. My rule of thumb is that the cricket should be no larger then the body of the scorpion. I personally would try a heat lamp if you don't have one and see what that does for you. Give us some updates too if you get the chance.


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## Justblayzee (Dec 1, 2011)

Thank you. Where do i go about getting a heat lamp being it's Queensland its usually 30degrees Celsius which is very hot.
Should i just use a red lamp?


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## Keister (Dec 1, 2011)

I personally use a 60 watt night glow bulb in a 150 watt capable lamp so that the heat is more spread so its not so direct and so that it isn't very hot only about 80 to 85 degrees fahrenheit. As to where to get one in Queensland I have no clue, but I would try Ebay, if you have that in Queensland. If not I personally would just search it on the internet unless you have a local pet store, where they would most likely be found in the reptile section. Hope ths helps! Has she moved at all yet?


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## Hornets inverts (Dec 1, 2011)

no need for any heating here, iva ebeen keeping liocheles for 8years now, never once needed to heat, even in winter. Remember, 99% of inverts for sale in australia are wildcaught which causes alot of stress with the shipping and they are of an unknown are and may be just about ready to cark it. Anyway what you described doesnt sound good, just leave them alone and check back later.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Keister (Dec 1, 2011)

This is a very good point. Stress seems to be the most resonable conclusion at this point, so just leave them go and just check on them  occasionally and see what is happening without entering their cage at all, because this may stir them up and only add additional stress.


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## Justblayzee (Dec 2, 2011)

Thanks everyone! They're currently sitting in my lounge room as my tank is very, very heavy. But I'll move it to my room tomorrow so everyone will stop wanting to look at them & such. I bought some medium crickets today & last night the crickets that were in there kept rubbing there legs together making that annoying sound. Ill probably feed them in 2 days or so or is there. Strict first of one a week? Because I'll let the others go if that's the case don't paticualy want an animal to die for nothing. Thanks again.


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## Michiel (Dec 2, 2011)

panic for nothing. This is normal behaviour for scorpions...give them some time to settle in.......When you meet a female somewhere, do you jump her, or do you date her a couple of times first????


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## Justblayzee (Dec 2, 2011)

Well I usually jump on them haha, it's only because they're my first & cost me a fare bit of money. I thought this was normal just wanted to make sure & had no where to turn.


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## Michiel (Dec 2, 2011)

Yeah, me too. I get a lot of black eyes, strange don't you think?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Hornets inverts (Dec 2, 2011)

Michiel said:


> panic for nothing. This is normal behaviour for scorpions


Certainly not normal, i can say that much. Could be major stress, injury, old age. May recover, may not.

All you can do is wait, let us know how they go


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## Michiel (Dec 2, 2011)

Hi Hornets,


you say: certainly not normal, and then you follow with "could be..." That's a bit of a contradiction don't you think? 
Let me explain a bit more what I meant. The female's behaviour, sitting still in the open, letting crickets run over her...is a similar response you can get when you uncover a scorpion....Scorpion have a pigment in the median eyes that act like sunglasses, this pigment dissappears when it gradually becomes darker outside, enabling them to wander outside their hides. That's why scorpion hunting is more ideal on moonless nights. 
Anyway, what I am trying to explain is that when scorpions are uncovered, and are in the full light all of the sudden, they will freeze for a few seconds to more seconds, and then run for cover. Mostly when you put scorpions in a new enclosure, they will run for cover immediately, but some end up in corner and then cuddle up. 
Put on quality sunglasses, than look at the sun, and then remove the shades.....you'll pinch your eyes immediately, now imagine your reaction, but with eyes 10.000 times more sensitive.......

So based upon the limited information, I suspect the light and the new surroundings and other possible stressors might caused her behaviour and the behaviour to these stressors are not abnormal.


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## Hornets inverts (Dec 2, 2011)

There was no contradiction, i said its not normal but gave a few idea's of what it could be.
Yes, as you said its normal for them to sit still then disturbed, they pretty much all do it. What he described though with the scorpion hardly moving when touched, from my experience with liocheles, is not normal for a healthy specimen, even immediatly after transit or collection. If you give them a prod they should take off like lightening or in 1 form i have came across, go stiff and play dead. I've kept hundreds of liocheles and what he described doesnt sound right


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## Justblayzee (Dec 2, 2011)

So I thought it was bad so I just put the hide over her to get her out of the light. Since then she has moved & walked out of her hide & walked back in. I get the idea it's a stress thing, after being in a box with little mulch not much bigger then my size with a cricket & no air hole & being then put in a box getting kicked around & knocked I wouldn't paticuly be to active or happy either. I hope she recovers I have them in about a 70x40x45 tank with about 4" of peat moss so they have a lot of room & lots of food & a lot of water I hope they can adjust living in captivity after being in the wild. I wish there was a breeder so I know they wouldn't have to go through this.


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## Michiel (Dec 2, 2011)

Hornets inverts said:


> There was no contradiction, i said its not normal but gave a few idea's of what it could be.
> Yes, as you said its normal for them to sit still then disturbed, they pretty much all do it. What he described though with the scorpion hardly moving when touched, from my experience with liocheles, is not normal for a healthy specimen, even immediatly after transit or collection. If you give them a prod they should take off like lightening or in 1 form i have came across, go stiff and play dead. I've kept hundreds of liocheles and what he described doesnt sound right


Hi Hornets,

I guess I misinterpreted that then. Thanks for explaining what you meant. You certainly have more experience with Liocheles than me, and I share your observations, prod----running away or catalepsy (playing dead)...

@Justblayzee, that is what I also do, just cover them up....


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## Keister (Dec 2, 2011)

It is good to hear that she has finally moved. Shipping scorpions expecially wild caught, because just catching them puts alot of stress on them, stresses most scorpions out big time. It's nice to hear she's making a good recovery and it isn't anything more major such as her kicking the bucket!


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## Justblayzee (Dec 2, 2011)

Yeah I'd be pretty devo if that happened. Does anyone know about mating them? I don't paticurlaly want babies but I guess it'd be nice. I just don't know how to take care of them I have no clue but there apparently 3/4 grown & third instar I think he said.

Thanks everyone again! You all are great for helping me


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## Keister (Dec 2, 2011)

They will mate on their own and you seperate the babies into individual containers, to prevent canablism, after they leave the females back on their own. They will be in 2nd instar that that point. The female when she is close to giving birth should be seperated from the male also. That is basic breeding info though, not specifically for Liocheles Waigiensis. Someone with experiance breeding Liocheles Waigiensis may be able to further help you!


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## snippy (Dec 2, 2011)

A simple advice: Never judge the behavior of a scorpion by the first few days in a new tank - especially when it just has been shipped to you  It is simply not representative!
And when you find a scorpion to show unusual behavior, don't stress it more by grapping it!



Justblayzee said:


> there apparently 3/4 grown & third instar I think he said.


These two basically contradict each other.

Regards
Finn


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## Justblayzee (Dec 2, 2011)

Yeah, I just let stress get a head of me. Anyone able to tell me about there water & weekly feeding? Is it once a week? & tap water left out side over night?


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## snippy (Dec 2, 2011)

Check where it is from and check http://www.iten-online.ch/klima/klimatabellen.htm or similar and "bingo", you will know how to keep it.

Regards
Finn


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## Hornets inverts (Dec 2, 2011)

Good to hear its looking better. If you can post a pic of both of them next to a ruler i can give you a good indication on what instar they are.

Since liocheles can be housed together, as keister said, they will do all the breeding stuff themselves. The males are very keen to mate, i have often seen them racing around the tank, juddering, looking for the girls. Gestation is around 9months and the bubs are very easy to rear and take about 4 years to mature.


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## Justblayzee (Dec 2, 2011)

Oh sweet ! I'll take a photo in about 3 days when they've become less stressed. Do inlay the tail out or should I wait till they are laying down. Before ingot them they've said were 2.7cm including tail if that helps I will redo it but.


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## Justblayzee (Dec 2, 2011)

This is my tank & the female. Avoid picking in me I know I'm goofy.


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## Hornets inverts (Dec 2, 2011)

guessing 4th instar, sounds too big for 3rd instar


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## Justblayzee (Dec 2, 2011)

Justblayzee said:


> This is my tank & the female. Avoid picking in me I know I'm goofy.


*picking on me.


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## Hornets inverts (Dec 2, 2011)

Some pics of lio's to give you idea of size.

First 3 pics are of a 5th instar female north qld species, as you can see shes looking very fat so shouldnt be too far off moulting, last pic is a mature female south east qld specimen who i'm hoping is gravid


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## Justblayzee (Dec 2, 2011)

Mine are exactly the same size  so I'm guessing there adults


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## Justblayzee (Dec 8, 2011)

So she hadn't left her hide in a about 4 days, I picked her up today with no body response. She looks like she's shedding because those things on her back are separating a little bit. She's not hard she feels floppy & soft so I put her in a ice cream dish to see if she moves in a few days. I feel so bad for her


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## Hendersoniana (Dec 8, 2011)

I'd just let her be in her tank. Also, those things on her back (tergites) do seperate, but not when molting itself takes place. Scorps molt face first and slowly inch their way out. I wouldnt pick her up and move her around, it would cause uneccessary stress. Also, she can dont leave her hide for a month and it wouldnt seem weird. It means they feel safe and comfortable. I had scorps block off their burrows and live underground for months and i sometimes forget about them. Dont worry so much, a scorp going to molt is lerthargic and doesnt respond as readily. Good luck.


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## Hornets inverts (Dec 9, 2011)

4 days hiding for a liocheles isnt anything to worry about although they dont block them selves off for long periods like some other scorps unless they are either moulting or giving birth. If shes not moving at all when touched its possible shes ready to moult so your best of leaving her alone. If i were you i would placed her in a small plastic container with moist coco peat and put her in the dark. Dont disturb her, check in a few days, if shes not smelly by then chances are shes preparing to moult


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## Justblayzee (Dec 9, 2011)

Hendersoniana said:


> I'd just let her be in her tank. Also, those things on her back (tergites) do seperate, but not when molting itself takes place. Scorps molt face first and slowly inch their way out. I wouldnt pick her up and move her around, it would cause uneccessary stress. Also, she can dont leave her hide for a month and it wouldnt seem weird. It means they feel safe and comfortable. I had scorps block off their burrows and live underground for months and i sometimes forget about them. Dont worry so much, a scorp going to molt is lerthargic and doesnt respond as readily. Good luck.


Thank you I'm leaving her to the ice cream tub for another 2 days & see how she goes. It's mainly because i don't want her dead & rotting with a fellow scorpion in there seems like bad hygiene.


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## D3N2 (Dec 9, 2011)

From my personal experience with Liocheles australasiae, they are not very active scorpions.  Especially the younger instars.  More than 90% of the time, mine tend to hide under their wooden decor, some even digging burrows, which is not usual for L. australasiae.  I've noticed that they freeze when disturbed.  If I pick them off the wood, they stay frozen, playing dead.  They usually don't spring to life until covered with a piece of wood again.  I've only seen my adults sit out in the open, and usually this is when it's dark.  When disturbed, they have the same reaction as the juveniles, but not as extreme.  Because of this, I leave them alone unless I'm feeding.

Might be different with L. waigiensis though..


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## richoman3 (Dec 9, 2011)

there is nothing to worry about 
its all normal, all of my liocheles hide, infact since i got them 2 years ago i never seen them out, scorpions are creatures that hide not run around like reptiles. also they hardly eat, i feed mine once every 2 weeks and sometimes they dont even budge. 
liocheles are really secretive scorpions, they are flat like that because they hide in cracks in rcoks and just leave the claws out for suspecting prey, this is also why they have such a small tail, they hardly sting their prey. also they dont burrow

what i suggest you do is, move them into a smaller enclosure, and with the bigger one go looking out near you for some of your own liocheles and you can make a communal setup in there with more individuals.


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## Hornets inverts (Dec 10, 2011)

Up in here in qld lio's seem very active, mine are out and about pretty much every night. They are also commonly found wandering at night when black lighting, not as secretive as urodacus, more like Lychas with their activity from my experience


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## D3N2 (Dec 10, 2011)

Hornets inverts said:


> Up in here in qld lio's seem very active, mine are out and about pretty much every night. They are also commonly found wandering at night when black lighting, not as secretive as urodacus, more like Lychas with their activity from my experience


Hornets inverts, are you talking about L. waigiensis or Liocheles in general?  Do you mostly find adults, or all ages?

I wonder if my L. australasiae are just not comfortable in their enclosures yet.  They are all in temporary vials or small deli containers, will be moving them to more permanent enclosures when I get home.  As I mentioned, the 2 adult wild-caught ones I have are less shy.  The 3i-4i ones, either wild-caught or captive-bred, are all pretty secretive.  It might not be an indicator of Liocheles activity level then, instead might have to do with age or stress..


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## Hornets inverts (Dec 10, 2011)

L. waigiensis is the species i have experience with but from reports on australasiae i have seen they are also very active in the wild and are often found climbing tree's. Also the specimens i have found wandering are generally adult or sub adult


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## richoman3 (Dec 10, 2011)

Hornets inverts said:


> L. waigiensis is the species i have experience with but from reports on australasiae i have seen they are also very active in the wild and are often found climbing tree's. Also the specimens i have found wandering are generally adult or sub adult


wasnt an australasiae found like 10m up a tree once? or could it of been 30m, maybe 50m  ... couldnt remember what it was but it was bloody high


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## Hornets inverts (Dec 10, 2011)

40m according to newts book


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## Justblayzee (Dec 27, 2011)

Just an update, my male got moved into a smaller tank which he seems to like I built him a hide then covered it in dirt & built a level above it with fake plants. He seems to be more active I check him once a week to see how he's doing which I don't think he likes haha. Ive read a lot here & learnt I was worried about feeding as he came with medium crickets so I bought them, he's eaten one since I've had him. I'm going to take the cricket I have running in there out tonight & try & feed him again in a week . I was pretty bummed that my female died so I buried her in my backyard.


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