# Watering DUbias??Roaches keep dying off



## Ultum4Spiderz (Feb 7, 2013)

I cannot find out were to buy cheap water crystals can someone help me out:cry:
I think thats why roaches keep dying off 

Still infested with weird black flys


----------



## bugmankeith (Feb 7, 2013)

Mist them with water using a spray bottle for the time being and give lots of fresh fruit.


----------



## Galapoheros (Feb 7, 2013)

If you're open to other options, you never had to water dubias directly.  I had so many that I gave 1000s of them to a pet store here.  At a bare minimum you can feed them only pieces of potato for their moisture but other things for moisture I gave them were bananas, carrots, any greens, leftover avocado, esp. oranges ..any plant humans eat is safe, I'm sure there's a lot more they would eat that we wouldn't though.  I kept the doobs over 5 years(?) before I got rid of them and I only cleaned their tub out once!  It didn't smell, everything turned to dirt, there were dwarf isopods in there, everything got broken down.  I added oak leaves now and then, they ate those too.  Instead of crates, I used curled bark for hides.  I kept a few, have them in a gallon jug, I may get them going again in a smaller tub.


----------



## Tarac (Feb 8, 2013)

Same here, I use apples sometimes when they are cheap and in season and otherwise I use citrus too which is bountiful here in Florida (for the time being... Citrus greening, arggg) all times of year in one form or another.  They love Ichandarins which taste like turpentine and fish oil to me so I give them those from my tree outside.  I keep Discoids of course, no Dubias allowed down here.


----------



## Boatman (Feb 8, 2013)

I have a small colony and never give them any water, and they seem to thrive.  I give them various left over fruits & veggies, chopped apples & lettuce mostly, and sometimes oranges or other fruits.  I also give them Gerber dry multi-grain baby cereal, which they love.  I save the blue water gel for when I'm away from home for a few days.  With fruits & veggies, though, I understand that you should to be careful about pesticides & peel skins &/or wash well.


----------



## catfishrod69 (Feb 8, 2013)

You need to tell us more about your setup. Are you using any kind of substrate? What kind of food? What kind of water? Etc...

How i keep my dubia is in a 110 quart sterilite tub. Ive got 1/8" holes drilled in the top of the sides. Also a few holes drilled in the lid on the ends. I have alot of egg flats that are vertical to allow frass to fall to the bottom. I use no substrate at all. I have 1 6" waterdish with watergel crystals, and 1 6" food dish. I feed them only Dumor chick and duckling starter from the feed store. Its high in protien, and they love it. I never ever give them anything else. They are doing great, and booming. Best way to keep the flies out is to make sure it stays completely dry everywhere except in the waterdish. They flies will still lay eggs in the watergel though. I get my crystals from watergelcrystals.com  I ordered 2 pounds and paid like $15. Its lasted over 2 years, and there is still plenty left. Thats even using it to water 3 colonies. I mix up 2 gallons at a time. When it gets down to the bottom i mix up more.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Tarac (Feb 8, 2013)

Boatman said:


> I have a small colony and never give them any water, and they seem to thrive.  I give them various left over fruits & veggies, chopped apples & lettuce mostly, and sometimes oranges or other fruits.  I also give them Gerber dry multi-grain baby cereal, which they love.  I save the blue water gel for when I'm away from home for a few days.  With fruits & veggies, though, I understand that you should to be careful about pesticides & peel skins &/or wash well.


Actually, just to clarify, most of the pesticide is found _in the tissue_ of the food items nowadays.  Watery items are worse- lettuce, cucumbers, celery, etc.  Most of our pesticides used these days are systemic- much cheaper and more effective than constantly coating with something that rinses off with water.  Imagine trying to keep pesticides on your plants AND irrigate.  So the best way to avoid that is to buy organically grown if you are worried about biomagnification of the chemistry.  Washing and peeling gets rid of dirt, bacteria and [some] fungi and bug parts but the pesticide is still there.  Peeling helps with superficial pesticides for certain kinds of produce that get these types of application, but the majority of produce also gets or ONLY gets systemic treatment because it's more practical and is now relatively safe for human consumption anyway.  Who cares if you eat an ecdysone inhibitor, right?  But your bugs may feel differently.

Here is a link- take with a grain of salt because it's just a synopsis from CNN:

http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/06/01/dirty.dozen.produce.pesticide/index.html

Example of issues with above is the last statement- buy organic and reduce the pesticides in your body, implying more healthy, according to "some studies."  In reality there have been no measurable health benefits ever correlated with eating organic and we do finally have significant long term data on the subject.  In fact there is significant health risk in eating organic because it is poorly regulated [in the us] and requires the use of organic fertilizers and such which pose a much greater risk and frequency of contamination with dangerous bacteria and so on.

http://med.stanford.edu/ism/2012/september/organic.html

So what does this mean for feeding your dubia?  It suggests that using foods which are known to contain less pesticides in general is probably better than using either organic (to avoid potential pathogens which may or may not be found and may or may not target invertebrates, etc.) or those foods which tend to sequester higher levels of pesticide in their tissues.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Boatman (Feb 8, 2013)

Thanks for the info!



Tarac said:


> Actually, just to clarify, most of the pesticide is found _in the tissue_ of the food items nowadays.  Watery items are worse- lettuce, cucumbers, celery, etc.  Most of our pesticides used these days are systemic- much cheaper and more effective than constantly coating with something that rinses off with water.  Imagine trying to keep pesticides on your plants AND irrigate.  So the best way to avoid that is to buy organically grown if you are worried about biomagnification of the chemistry.  Washing and peeling gets rid of dirt, bacteria and [some] fungi and bug parts but the pesticide is still there.  Peeling helps with superficial pesticides for certain kinds of produce that get these types of application, but the majority of produce also gets or ONLY gets systemic treatment because it's more practical and is now relatively safe for human consumption anyway.  Who cares if you eat an ecdysone inhibitor, right?  But your bugs may feel differently.
> 
> Here is a link- take with a grain of salt because it's just a synopsis from CNN:
> 
> ...


----------



## Ultum4Spiderz (Feb 8, 2013)

catfishrod69 said:


> You need to tell us more about your setup. Are you using any kind of substrate? What kind of food? What kind of water? Etc...
> 
> How i keep my dubia is in a 110 quart sterilite tub. Ive got 1/8" holes drilled in the top of the sides. Also a few holes drilled in the lid on the ends. I have alot of egg flats that are vertical to allow frass to fall to the bottom. I use no substrate at all. I have 1 6" waterdish with watergel crystals, and 1 6" food dish. I feed them only Dumor chick and duckling starter from the feed store. Its high in protien, and they love it. I never ever give them anything else. They are doing great, and booming. Best way to keep the flies out is to make sure it stays completely dry everywhere except in the waterdish. They flies will still lay eggs in the watergel though. I get my crystals from watergelcrystals.com  I ordered 2 pounds and paid like $15. Its lasted over 2 years, and there is still plenty left. Thats even using it to water 3 colonies. I mix up 2 gallons at a time. When it gets down to the bottom i mix up more.


Dog food + apple cores , no substrate , occasionally mist em , Egg crates too live in


----------



## spiderfield (Feb 8, 2013)

Your dubia will get all the moisture they need from the food you provide them, as the other posters here mentioned.  In my opinion, don't waste your money on gimmicks like water crystals.

Regards,
Ryan


----------



## poisoned (Feb 8, 2013)

Tarac said:


> Example of issues with above is the last statement- buy organic and reduce the pesticides in your body, implying more healthy, according to "some studies."  In reality there have been no measurable health benefits ever correlated with eating organic and we do finally have significant long term data on the subject.  In fact there is significant health risk in eating organic because it is poorly regulated [in the us] and requires the use of organic fertilizers and such which pose a much greater risk and frequency of contamination with dangerous bacteria and so on.


Organic food is not only about health, but also about environment.


----------



## Ultum4Spiderz (Feb 8, 2013)

spiderfield said:


> Your dubia will get all the moisture they need from the food you provide them, as the other posters here mentioned.  In my opinion, don't waste your money on gimmicks like water crystals.
> 
> Regards,
> Ryan


So I should water the dog food prior to feeding??


----------



## spiderfield (Feb 8, 2013)

You can give them moistened kibble, if it suits you...I do it occasionally. But obvious moisture-containing foods such as fruits/veggies/meats will suffice.

Regards,
Ryan


----------



## catfishrod69 (Feb 8, 2013)

Ok the apple cores are whats drawing in the flies like mad. Dont do that. 
The misting is completley not needed. Dont do that. 
For humidity, keep them in a enclosure with limited ventilation, like i do with mine. With less ventilation, a water dish full of crystals is plenty enough for humidity. 
Egg crates, perfect. 
No substrate, perfect. 

Now for moistening the dog food. That is a grain mite explosion waiting to happen. DONT DO THAT! EVER! Grain mite eggs are found in all grain foods. Like cereal, dry oats, etc. Where the grains are stored, they have to constantly monitor and stir the grain. If not, it will develope hot spots, which will get moist, and the grain mites will start hatching. When i had mealworms i made the mistake of using dry oatmeal for bedding/food. It works great, until water crystals gets spilled on it. From then on, its been a grain mite battle. 

And yes the cereal, oats, other grain products we are eating contains lots and lots of protien (grain mite eggs) .





Ultum4Spiderz said:


> Dog food + apple cores , no substrate , occasionally mist em , Egg crates too live in


----------



## Ultum4Spiderz (Feb 8, 2013)

catfishrod69 said:


> Ok the apple cores are whats drawing in the flies like mad. Dont do that.
> The misting is completley not needed. Dont do that.
> For humidity, keep them in a enclosure with limited ventilation, like i do with mine. With less ventilation, a water dish full of crystals is plenty enough for humidity.
> Egg crates, perfect.
> ...


It is a Mystery How dogs even survive on dog food , that stuff is toxic (DEATH_) TO human standards


----------



## Deac77 (Feb 8, 2013)

Ultum4Spiderz said:


> It is a Mystery How dogs even survive on dog food , that stuff is toxic (DEATH_) TO human standards


I feed dog food but the grain free expensive crap because that what my dog eats haha and I use fresh fruits and veggies for water


----------



## Ultum4Spiderz (Feb 8, 2013)

Deac77 said:


> I feed dog food but the grain free expensive crap because that what my dog eats haha and I use fresh fruits and veggies for water


YEah seems like God is keeping dogs alive on a Respirator with the horrible diet they currenrtly live on....... 
IT defies all science, reason, logic that a 100% carnivore can survive on dog food:
Look at a Big dogs teeth.... it is not a herbivore/Omnivore


----------



## Tarac (Feb 11, 2013)

poisoned said:


> Organic food is not only about health, but also about environment.


Yes, and the same principles still apply- still using fertilizer, for example, but now you can contaminate local water sources with bacteria from livestock manure used for fertilization so you not only have same risk for run-off based nitrification of local ecosystems but also vector transmission.  Same thing can happen on small scale with your roach colonies in theory, probably no one has done the work to see what kinds of invert vectors are present on organically raised produce especially considering it is such a highly variable product in this regard.  Although I do understand that regulations are more stringent in much of Europe compared to the US where they are virtually non-existent in any meaningful way.


----------



## Marijan2 (Feb 14, 2013)

For my dubia colony i use typical setup, eggcrates with no substrate, orange/apple/banana for watery food and dog food for dry one. One addition i do is to put dish full of water and mesh over it, so they cannot drown. It vaporizes slowly and keeps humidity up. 

For my g. portentosa and e. javanica i use eggcrates with 2 inch substrate, orange/apple/banana and dog food diet. Substrate on one corner is wet thus keeping up humidity.



Never had any problems with this methods whatsoever. Hope i helped


----------



## poisoned (Feb 14, 2013)

Tarac said:


> Yes, and the same principles still apply- still using fertilizer, for example, but now you can contaminate local water sources with bacteria from livestock manure used for fertilization so you not only have same risk for run-off based nitrification of local ecosystems but also vector transmission.  Same thing can happen on small scale with your roach colonies in theory, probably no one has done the work to see what kinds of invert vectors are present on organically raised produce especially considering it is such a highly variable product in this regard.  Although I do understand that regulations are more stringent in much of Europe compared to the US where they are virtually non-existent in any meaningful way.


Who says livestock manure is not used in non-organic fertilization? Well, at least here, it is.


----------



## Bugmom (Feb 15, 2013)

I keep my roaches in a Rubbermaid container, no substrate, and feed them leftover veggies from when I cook (they go crazy over tomatoes, squash, and zucchini) and also give crushed dog food and oatmeal (that's what I was told to do by the guy I got them from). They eat the oatmeal well, but don't seem too fond of the dog food. I'm going to experiment with different brands. I've got some organic duck "milk bones" I'm going to see if they like better. The dogs wont eat them so something needs to lol

They seem to be happy roaches *shrug*

Blame Tapatalk + "smart" phone for the typos kthnx


----------



## Insektzuchen (Feb 25, 2013)

*Moisten bread slices*

An easy way to keep them hydrated is to take the end slices from a loaf of bread, which most people don't eat anyway, mist the bread with water.  Don't make a soggy mess.  Then feed them the bread.  They'll gobble it up before it has a chance to grow mold


----------



## Bugmom (Feb 25, 2013)

Insektzuchen said:


> An easy way to keep them hydrated is to take the ends from a loaf of bread, which most people don't eat anyway, mist the bread with water.  Don't make a soggy mess.  Then feed them the bread.  They'll gobble it up before it has a chance to grow mold


I'll have to try that!

Blame Tapatalk + "smart" phone for the typos kthnx

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Leeway337 (Feb 25, 2013)

When I first got my Dubia I kept the container a little moist. The Dubia where adults but would never breed. I now keep them in bone dry coir and feed them mixed organic lettuce and vegetable scraps (all raw). They are now breeding and will be too many very soon. I did the same thing with my hissers and now they are over populated. I am trying to feed as many as I can to my larger Tarantulas and other spiders with no progress. They even kept producing nymphs all winter with no added heat. I hoped the cold would stop them from breeding but it didn't. I do not add any water ever. Just raw lettuce mix and vegetable scraps 1 or 2 times a week. I always read that people add dog/cat food for protein but my roaches are over populated with only raw lettuce and vegetable scraps. The coir is so dry you can turn it into dust. Oh and Fruit peels/scraps too.


----------



## Insektzuchen (Feb 25, 2013)

Ultum4Spiderz said:


> I cannot find out were to buy cheap water crystals can someone help me out:cry:
> I think thats why roaches keep dying off
> 
> Still infested with weird black flys



The "weird black flys" your dubia colony is infested with may be Phorid Flies, an extremely destructive parasite that you need to eliminate ASAP or your entire invert collection might be wiped out.  Phorid flies are a small, hump-back fly resembling a fruit fly that move in jerking motions.  Their nickname is "coffin flies" because they're often found in buried human cadavers. They were introduced into the US to control fire ants but can kill most inverts also.  They lay eggs in the sternites of centipedes and the book lungs of tarantulas.  The larvae kills the host and the maggot eats the dead tissue.  It's believed they are responsible for the collapse of the honey bee population.  This is probably what's killing off your dubia colony as well.  You really need to get on this and rid your house of these flies.  Good luck.


----------



## Galapoheros (Feb 25, 2013)

It's hard to imagine since ...we are humans, but these roaches need very little water, you don't need to moisten anything.  At a minimum, all you have to do is cut an apple in half and put a half in there, depending on how many you have, maybe the whole thing.  In a couple of weeks do the same with an orange.  Just do that back and forth and they will be OK, along with the solid food; flakes dog/cat food.  I also add bee pollen, just now and then.


----------



## Bugmom (Feb 26, 2013)

Galapoheros said:


> It's hard to imagine since ...we are humans, but these roaches need very little water, you don't need to moisten anything.  At a minimum, all you have to do is cut an apple in half and put a half in there, depending on how many you have, maybe the whole thing.  In a couple of weeks do the same with an orange.  Just do that back and forth and they will be OK, along with the solid food; flakes dog/cat food.  I also add bee pollen, just now and then.


Hydrating feeders hydrates what we feed them too though. For species that treat water dishes like they are horrible interlopers in their tanks and must be buried and never seen again, hydrated feeders are rather important.

What's the purpose of the bee pollen?

Blame Tapatalk + "smart" phone for the typos kthnx


----------



## Ultum4Spiderz (Mar 2, 2013)

Insektzuchen said:


> The "weird black flys" your dubia colony is infested with may be Phorid Flies, an extremely destructive parasite that you need to eliminate ASAP or your entire invert collection might be wiped out.  Phorid flies are a small, hump-back fly resembling a fruit fly that move in jerking motions.  Their nickname is "coffin flies" because they're often found in buried human cadavers. They were introduced into the US to control fire ants but can kill most inverts also.  They lay eggs in the sternites of centipedes and the book lungs of tarantulas.  The larvae kills the host and the maggot eats the dead tissue.  It's believed they are responsible for the collapse of the honey bee population.  This is probably what's killing off your dubia colony as well.  You really need to get on this and rid your house of these flies.  Good luck.


How do I get rid of these flys??


----------



## Tobyn (Mar 2, 2013)

can i give a slice of lemon to red runner cockroaches or is it to acidic? thanks.


----------



## Insektzuchen (Mar 3, 2013)

Ultum4Spiderz said:


> How do I get rid of these flys??


I found a website for you that has information on Phorid Flies -- www.pestproducts.com/phoridfly.htm -- and how to eliminate them without insecticides.  Basically, phorid flies breed primarily in and feed on moist decaying plant and animal matter (fermenting fruit, rotten vegetables, and carcasses of feeder insects) but they are also parasitic insofar as the females often lay eggs in and on inverts, insects, amphibians and reptiles whereupon they pupate into maggots, then emerge as adult flies.  The living host dies during this process.
In sum, you might want to clean up your dubia colony or just dispose of the entire lot and start a new one.  I wouldn't use fruits and vegetables to hydrate my roaches, even though many people do.  In addition, you should remove any dead, uneaten feeder insects from your invert enclosures.


----------



## Ultum4Spiderz (Mar 4, 2013)

what ever they are , I almost got rid of them once.
High humidity attracted them again ,if the cage drys out they die off.
I also must throw away all of the roach poop. incase fly eggs are in it.

can a roach colony survive freezing weather?? that would kill fly's if froze for a day or two I think
perhaps ill keep heat pads off until I kill off fly's so population dosn't explode. feeding fly's.


----------



## Osmo (Mar 4, 2013)

I keep my dubias in a 10 gallon glass aquarium with a mesh screen top. i dont give them water. I give them fruits and veggies with a grain mix mixed in every week. I dont think ive lost any to deaths. They just keep breeding i think because i keep finding smaller and smaller babies.


----------



## Louise E. Rothstein (Mar 6, 2013)

The nicotinoid pesticides that do cause "Colony Collapse Disorder" were "exonerated" by plausible corporate shills whose invocations of so-called "stress," of "virus," and of "mite" infestations have apparently been varied by attempts to pretend that small and very stingable phorid flies could ever "massacre" healthy honeybees. 

If the bees are either too feeble to fight or already dead phorid flies can move in.
And they probably have...
But...
They did not kill the bees.

---------- Post added 03-06-2013 at 10:19 PM ----------

Roaches can't sting.
Can phorids kill them?
Flies could surely "attack" roaches that are already dead.
Would they "attack" healthy adults...?
They might find that difficult to do: although molting nymphs might become unsafe around an infestation.
But the experience of several readers would appear to indicate that the reduction of moisture AND of uneaten organic detritus
can bring phorid infestations under control before the roaches die off.


----------



## Insektzuchen (Mar 7, 2013)

*A New Threat to Honey Bees, the Parasitic Phorid Fly*



Louise E. Rothstein said:


> The nicotinoid pesticides that do cause "Colony Collapse Disorder" were "exonerated" by plausible corporate shills whose invocations of so-called "stress," of "virus," and of "mite" infestations have apparently been varied by attempts to pretend that small and very stingable phorid flies could ever "massacre" healthy honeybees.
> 
> If the bees are either too feeble to fight or already dead phorid flies can move in.
> And they probably have...
> ...



This thread began as a question about where someone could purchase water crystals for their dubia roach colony, if the lack of water crystals was causing the unexplained deaths of his roaches and the identity of the "weird black flys [sic]" present in the colony.  
I then gave my opinion that the roaches were being parasitized by Phorid Flies, then dying.  Dehydration had nothing to do with it.  I recommended that he clean up his colony by getting rid of the decaying organic animal and plant matter which initially attracts the flies.
In my post, I mentioned in passing that some scientists believe that Phorid Flies (of which there are over 4000 different species and hosts) may be responsible for the decline of the honey bee population.  In response, someone went on a rant spewing disinformation that I believe needs to be clarified.  I won't belabor the issue because its already completely off-topic.  I'll just provide a link for the uninformed and interested to learn correct information on the issue.

A New Threat to Honey Bees, the Parasitic Phorid Fly Apocephalus borealis
http://dx.plos.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0029639

Cheers.


----------



## Ultum4Spiderz (May 24, 2013)

Hmm Ill try the bread watering technique sometime....


----------



## Galapoheros (May 24, 2013)

I kept small isopods with the dubias.  I had so many that a few weeks ago I donated 1000s to a local pet store.  I kept about 100 though, sounds like a lot but it's not really.  I don't try to sterilize everything so much, there is something like a micro bio environment going on over here.  Pred mites, isopods,.. it's working, working too well.  Dubias are extremely tolerant of dryness, I'd only use fruit and veggies for hydration, looking to see that it's gone the next day.  It's good to use your own judgment through observation, over time, that is what really works when there is so many opinions out there imo.


----------



## vukic (May 24, 2013)

I just feed mine oranges and my own mix of cereals and cat biscuits.. Works well for me... Too well for my turkistan roaches... Gone through my last mix I made in two weeks which is stupid fast since.it.used to last 1 or 2 months.... Now they're on pig nuggets till I get chance to make more.... Lol. 

Tiger

Sent from my LT18i using Tapatalk 2


----------

