# Man killed by thai black?



## audin_laoticus (Jul 11, 2007)

Hi!

The below article was in the Daily Mirror today (UK)...







Claims that a black thai scorpion killed this bloke. Heterometrus Laoticus? I've got 2 lol didn't think they could kill with just one sting.

More to it than just a scorpion me thinks... thoughts?


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## Gigas (Jul 11, 2007)

that wound could not have come from only scorpionidae venom


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## beetleman (Jul 11, 2007)

he proberly had a severe allergic reaction:? hmm don't know.


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## Dorcus (Jul 11, 2007)

Is that pic the "culprit"? Definitely not heterometrus. Is it just me or what? Because that scorpion looks buthidae to me.


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## Gigas (Jul 11, 2007)

Doesn't label it the culprit,


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## Bayushi (Jul 11, 2007)

Dorcus said:


> Is that pic the "culprit"? Definitely not heterometrus. Is it just me or what? Because that scorpion looks buthidae to me.


 yeah it's just you.  that is in no way a buthidae....


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## RoachGirlRen (Jul 11, 2007)

If he died of anything, it was probably hemmoragic septicemia from the nasty infection in that wound; he should not have been released with all of that obvious necrotic tissue! A proper hospital would have debrided it and had him on anti-biotcs for sure. If the bacteria from that infection got into the blood stream, it could definately cause the liver damage and internal bleeding described in the article. As for it being caused by the venom in the sting itself? Doubtful.


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## audin_laoticus (Jul 11, 2007)

It's a pretty vauge article, doesn't give much away does it! Typical tabloid, full of crap. Think beatlemans right surely it MUST have been an alergic reaction. Hmmm, what black scorpions are from that region? I dont know much about scorpions other than my own lol


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## Metallicaman999 (Jul 11, 2007)

scorpion propaganda


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## Mark Newton (Jul 11, 2007)

It looks more like the results of a spider bite, with some species, bacteria on the fangs cause necrotising flesh symptoms. I'd say he died of bacterial infection.


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## ZooRex (Jul 11, 2007)

I'm a bit confused. Did this guy really die? To me it seams totally made up and outta the National Inquirerer. But everyone here is making it sound like it acctually happened. ~ Rex


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## Bayushi (Jul 11, 2007)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/south_east/6287644.stm


 another report on said death from scorpion sting.  If it's fake the british press is really trying to make it seem real


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## ~Abyss~ (Jul 11, 2007)

YEAH SEEMS FAKE TO ME TOO. It just doesnt seem possible. Especially not with one sting. A bacterial infections would seem more likely but to get one from such a tiny sting is highly doughtful too. If he was in facft allergic to the venom wouldn't the doctors notice? And would an allergic reaction cause liver damge?


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## EAD063 (Jul 12, 2007)

Not to mention if it was a very venomous sting, his thumb would most likely be much more inflamed, not just lacerated/infected.  I agree with the above, hoax, bacterial or something of the sort.


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## EAD063 (Jul 12, 2007)

*Sorry for double-post.*

And sorry for not reading the article first.   After looking at it, sounds more like Malaryia or something similar.  Scorpion venom is mostly neurological, making your denrites and other nervious system parts go wild.  I'm not the most advance guy in the boards but I'd doubt scorpion venom could cause internal bleeding.

Ed


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## ~Abyss~ (Jul 12, 2007)

Exactly... but um not all scorpion venom is neurological. Most high LD50 scorpions have a venom as a defense mechanism as well as a mechanism for attacking prey, Meaning they are designed to attack a mammals nervous system. But i'm just saying... not all scorpion venom attacks the nervous system.


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## Jaffster (Jul 12, 2007)

I read this yesterday in The Sun (Another UK paper) but the picture looked more like a heterometrus spinifer. I think they've just chosen any old picture of a black scorpion and decided that it would look good!


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## kahoy (Jul 12, 2007)

i think a small buthid like a sub maculatus or lychas would do that and it ran away after stinging, then what he saw was a het on the ground... wow... how the hell that happened?... someone did the thing and then someone was pointed out? the rest sounds like an infection to me too, either malaria or bacterial infection maybe from a rusty object that hit him not from a scorp... i wonder why people always blame scorps when they see it...


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## Rigelus (Jul 12, 2007)

Yeah, tabloids are notorious for writing whatever they want whether true or not...Just as long as it's sensational or makes a good read then anything goes.

However i'm sure in this case theres at least some elements of truth. Sure, theres no doubt that the scorpion picture along with the article is something they've dredged out of their archives but the victim himself states he was stung by a black scorpion and a strike to the hand would be logical if he was using his hands to pick up clothes/get dressed.

I don't know how many of you out there have tried living in a jungle but the truth is theres a million different things in there that'll take a grown man down (especially a non native white man) quicker than a quick thing. He could allready have been in s**t street before he got stung. 
A simple cut or scratch if not treated can easily (and very quickly) become infected whether it was done by a scorpion stinging you or by yourself while your're scratching your nose. Plus theres parasites and germs, viruses and bacteria's and they are all looking for a way in. Any break of the skin if left unnatended is like an open door.

He was also having a bit of bother with his in-laws which wouldn't have helped either, causing him only to be more stressed out (lowered immune system) and lastly theres his age of 56 which also wouldn't have been a asset for a european in the jungle.

No, i reckon this poor guy just lucked out at every moment when he need a bit of luck.



> Heres a paragraph from BBC News link......._I managed to kill it with my shoe and tried to suck the poison out of my thumb but I was too late and the poison had gone through my body. _


The ignorant message of course to the world is .. "all scorpions will kill you, watch out".....sort of makes you wonder how many other truths don't even come close...maybe some you even believe in.


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## ctsoth (Jul 12, 2007)

If I read correctly he died three weeks after the initial sting.  He must have died of bacterial infection.  NF can be caused from insect stings and bites and such.  Looks to be the case to me.  Black tissue = bad.  

Basically, their is a -chance- of NF with any sort of tissue damage.


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## Jaffster (Jul 13, 2007)

I was intrigued by this story, and I've read a bit further into it.

There's more than what the papers are making out:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=123331

But apparently, he's suffered internal bleeding and a damaged liver, how on earth can a Scorpoindae's venom do this to somebody?


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## Rigelus (Jul 13, 2007)

> how on earth can a Scorpoindae's venom do this to somebody?


Degrees of reaction..

Some people will die from system and organ failure after eating a peanut or taking an aspirin....or testing a 9 volt battery on their tongues..!


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## ~Abyss~ (Jul 13, 2007)

Okay so this guy is in the middle of nowhere (or so he thinks) doesnt make any attempt to escape. Wastes his money on not one but 2 girls. And is living of murky water and mangoes. Living in a TIN shack? No wonder he died. Look at those poor conditions. If that scorpion wouldn't of ended his misery sure his lack of nutrition would. Or even a scarpe against the tin shack. Or a snake even. These just furthers my belief that it was some type of infection. If it wasnt for that damn scorpion he would of never found the road ie. CIVILIZATION.


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## Thaedion (Jul 14, 2007)

But you can't sell 'sensational' stories about "Man dies from infection due to scrape" but the ever popular human-flesh seeking demon of a scorpion that puts fear into the mundanes soul at it's very sight. Now if they say that killed him people will panic. Especially since you can pick one up at the local pet shop.


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## EAD063 (Jul 14, 2007)

Doesn't that link from the Thai forum give us all the anwsers we need?

"Gareth, who is being treated for the scorpion sting by doctors on the infectious diseases ward at the University Hospital of Wales."

Ed


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## Michiel (Jul 14, 2007)

I agree with Mark. The man probably had a severe allergic reaction. And there might be pre-existing medical conditions. Scorpion venom does not make you loose half your body weight. I don't know if you guys have ever been in the jungle but bare in mind that in jungle environment, the smallest wounds and cuts get infected very quickly. My guess is a pre-existing bacterial infection and the symptoms of the venom on top of it.


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## Schlyne (Jul 17, 2007)

I'm sorry, but I can't think of any instance where a scorpion sting by itself is going to turn areas of flesh black.  I would think there had to be a bacterial infection in the works.

I would definitely consider that not to be an normal reaction, considering his general state of health as well.


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## CaptainChaos (Jul 18, 2007)

abyss_X3 said:


> Exactly... but um not all scorpion venom is neurological. Most high LD50 scorpions have a venom as a defense mechanism as well as a mechanism for attacking prey, Meaning they are designed to attack a mammals nervous system. But i'm just saying... not all scorpion venom attacks the nervous system.


_Hemiscorpius lepturus_ is a good example of that, having cytotoxic venom. And there´s propably more species/subspecies that are waiting to be found and maybe some of them have different venom cocktails, who knows.


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## ~Abyss~ (Jul 18, 2007)

I lke it when peple agree with me . I'm not that well informed to give examples thanks.


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## hadrurus 666 (Jul 18, 2007)

im not sure whether i believe it myself but i have read that Heterometrus Swammerdami, or something like that, can be fatal! I didnt get this from the net but a good terrarium book.


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## Michiel (Jul 18, 2007)

Can we try to keep the discussion straight? All scorpions can be fatal....Here we go again, venomous, allergic, anaphylaxic shock, LD50values, mice....
pfffffffffffffffffffffffffff
Just scroll the forum back a couple of months and read the threads


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## Urizen (Jul 18, 2007)

While that thumb does look rather infected. I must say I bleed and react with more cytotoxic symtoms to bee venom as well as Uroplectes spp venom. I bruise on the sting site, as well as various spots while the venom travels, the sting site also blisters and peels. Often in the past when I have been stung, if I get the flu or a cold a month or so after the sting site and symptoms have healed, it often gets inflammed once again.

But who knows the articles does seem extremely vague and sensational.


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## hadrurus 666 (Jul 19, 2007)

sorry Michiel! i just thought i could give my opinion, i didnt know that was forbidden!


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## Michiel (Jul 20, 2007)

I wasn't saying it to you alone Hadrurus 666.   But sometimes I get a bit tired of these reocurring subjects _or something like that _


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