# Reptiles that don´t require daily maintenance



## TownesVanZandt (Nov 1, 2017)

In August this year the total ban on keeping reptiles were lifted in Norway and we are now allowed to keep some non-venomous ones. I am looking into the possibility of acquiring one (preferably a gecko), but since I am often away from my apartment for 3-7 days due to work, I cannot provide daily maintenance and care at all times. I do however have a friend that lives close by and she can fill up the water bowls for me, but she´s easily freaked out by bugs so she cannot feed them. 

I was talking to a guy at one of the pet stores that has reptiles about it and he said that a snake would be a better option than a gecko, due to the crested geckos requiring daily misting and leopard geckos requiring to be fed live insects every second day or so. Considering how they keep their tarantulas however, I am a bit skeptical about the quality of petstore advice about reptiles, so I am asking here instead.

So, here´s the list of reptiles that we´re allowed to keep. Will any of these be suitable for me?

Leopard Gecko
Crested Gecko
Madagascar Day Gecko (_Phelsuma madagascariensis_)
_Uromastyx ocellata _(not an option)
Bearded Dragon (As much as I love them, I don´t have the space)
Spiny Tailed Varan (_Varanus acanthurus_) Also not an option
Ocellated Lizard (_Lacerta lepida_)

Green Tree Python (There´s no way I´m keeping one)
Ball Python
Carpet Python (_Morelia spilota_) Also not an option
Common Tree Boa (_Corallus hortulanus_) Not an option
_Boa constrictor_  (Even if I had all the place in the world, I would never get near a snake of that size )
Rainbow Boa (_Epicrates cenchria_) No, no
Kingsnake (_Lampropeltis getula_)
Cornsnake (_Pantherophis guttatus_)
Milksnake (_Lampropeltis triangulum_)

In addition there´s some turtles, but they don´t interest me.

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## schmiggle (Nov 1, 2017)

Norway has a white list of exotic reptiles you're allowed to keep? Given the climate, that seems a bit excessive. Why was there a complete ban in the first place?
I would also have said a snake is a good choice, given that they only eat once a week and several of those listed (corn, king, and milksnake) are native, at least in part of their range, to relatively arid climates.

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## ShyDragoness (Nov 1, 2017)

I'd also say a snake would be your best option

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## TownesVanZandt (Nov 1, 2017)

schmiggle said:


> Norway has a white list of exotic reptiles you're allowed to keep? Given the climate, that seems a bit excessive. Why was there a complete ban in the first place?
> I would also have said a snake is a good choice, given that they only eat once a week and several of those listed (corn, king, and milksnake) are native, at least in part of their range, to relatively arid climates.


Yes, now we have a whitelist, which was a political compromise. I´m not sure why they decided to ban them back in 1977, but Norway and Iceland were the only European countries to have a total ban, which is strange considering no escaped reptiles can survive in our climate. The reason for them to allow some now were that it is estimated that more than 100.000 reptiles were kept illegally in Norway, many in less than adequate conditions because people could not keep them openly or take them to the veterinary etc. Sweden have always been quite liberal when it comes to keeping exotic pets  and people just drove across the border, bought whatever they wanted and brought them into the country. 

Do you have any experience with snakes? I have done some research online and it seems like it´s a general consensus that cornsnakes are the best option as a first snake. I do however like the looks of the ball python, but they are prone to stop eating and have more complicated requirements when it comes to humidity?


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## basin79 (Nov 1, 2017)

If you're often away for 3-7 days then I wouldn't recommend a reptile at all.

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## schmiggle (Nov 1, 2017)

TownesVanZandt said:


> Do you have any experience with snakes? I have done some research online and it seems like it´s a general consensus that cornsnakes are the best option as a first snake. I do however like the looks of the ball python, but they are prone to stop eating and have more complicated requirements when it comes to humidity?


I have no experience with snakes, and I would definitely say Basin's advice is better than mine in this context (and many others ). Having said that, what I've read about ball pythons suggests that they stop eating like a tarantula, that is to say, randomly and it doesn't necessarily indicate poor health.
@basin79 I would have thought a snake would be ok as long as the neighbor takes care of certain humidity and heat requirements. Where is the problem I am missing?

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## basin79 (Nov 1, 2017)

schmiggle said:


> I have no experience with snakes, and I would definitely say Basin's advice is better than mine in this context (and many others ). Having said that, what I've read about ball pythons suggests that they stop eating like a tarantula, that is to say, randomly and it doesn't necessarily indicate poor health.
> @basin79 I would have thought a snake would be ok as long as the neighbor takes care of certain humidity and hear requirements. Where is the problem I am missing?


Stats breaking down & heating equipment breaking down would be my main concerns. Snakes fouling their water bowls could be a problem also but if there's someone who would be willing to swap out the bowl and spot clean the enclosure that shouldn't matter. 

I just don't see the point in getting a reptile if you're not there to look after it a large part of the time.

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## TownesVanZandt (Nov 1, 2017)

basin79 said:


> Stats breaking down & heating equipment breaking down would be my main concerns. Snakes fouling their water bowls could be a problem also but if there's someone who would be willing to swap out the bowl and spot clean the enclosure that shouldn't matter.
> 
> I just don't see the point in getting a reptile if you're not there to look after it a large part of the time.


Thanks for your advice  It's not like I'm away as much as I'm home, but for now I need pets that allows me to do some work in another city. It's only a year long temporary position though, so the best option might be to just stick with my tarantulas until I finish this or find a job that doesn't involve traveling. But you know how it is, when you want something you want it now and not in a year

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## jake9134 (Nov 1, 2017)

Having kept ball pythons and cornsnakes, i can give some pros and cons to keeping both
Ball python:commonly from the savanna.
Pros:
Don't need much humidity, a large water bowl that they can get into during a shed works
can go long periods without eating or drinking
easier clean up and poop less.
very docile
this can be a pro or con but they live incredibly long, 40+ yrs
Cons:
sometimes won't eat for long periods (my first rat pet, the feeder out grew him before he would eat it)
took mine forever to take pre-killed food, the key was the temp
needs a bit more space
nocturnal and not very active unless hungry, hides most of the time
may become meaner if not held often
Cornsnake
Pros:
eats pre-killed readily, warm or cold doesn't have to be the perfect temp
more active and curious, seen at various times during the day, but will still hide quite a bit.
will almost never bite, you have to do a lot wrong to be bitten.
more tolerant of cold temps.
drink a lot
Lifespan up to 23 yrs, 6-8 yrs typically
capable of withstanding very cold temps, they can hibernate, but wouldn't ever allow it below 45 degrees F
Cons:
need a bit more humidity when shedding but keep it dry otherwise, their hide is a clay flower pot that I mist when they look like they are about to shed
become anxious and try to run, if not held for a while
The cage has a smell even after cleaning
their poop is projectile and often accompanied by a goo that shoots out.
if you scare them they can poop on you or whoever is handling them, and its incredibly smelly.
I use paper towels as the substrate because they poop often and it makes it quick and cheap to clean, aspen works and will help with smell.

Both would need some heat especially while digesting, but they can get by for a week without additional heat if your house it 65+ degrees F.
Both will last a week without eating or drinking with no problems. Both are escape artists, like all snakes. make sure the lid is secure, weights are not enough.
Temperaments of both can very pretty widely for each individual. The ball saw me as food after a while, would slowly bite me as I held it. not defensively more like he was trying to swallow my hand thinking its food. But the cornsnakes poop like crazy. If you can handle Ts then either will be just fine.
Hope that helps, and sorry for the long post I have been keeping ball pythons and cornsnakes for over 20 years

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## TownesVanZandt (Nov 1, 2017)

jake9134 said:


> Having kept ball pythons and cornsnakes, i can give some pros and cons to keeping both
> Ball python:commonly from the savanna.
> Pros:
> Don't need much humidity, a large water bowl that they can get into during a shed works
> ...


Thanks a lot for this information  I will think about this for some time so I don't make any rash decisions, but if I'm going for a snake I really would like a ball python. They are incredible beautiful.

What size would be a good option for someone without any previous snake experience? I suppose I should avoid the smallest ones who haven't been eating pre-killed mice for a while and who might not yet be used to being handled, but would an adult specimen also be too much snake to handle for a newbie? Also, are males and females different in temperament or is the size mostly what separates them?


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## basin79 (Nov 2, 2017)

jake9134 said:


> Having kept ball pythons and cornsnakes, i can give some pros and cons to keeping both
> Ball python:commonly from the savanna.
> Pros:
> Don't need much humidity, a large water bowl that they can get into during a shed works
> ...


65f for a week is pushing it in my opinion.

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## MatisIsLoveMantisIsLyf (Nov 2, 2017)

I Think im gonna make you feel bad, but your only option are snakes. They need weekly maintance and only feed 3-4 times a month (once weekly or so). They need minimum care, and after all, they dont eat bugs .

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## TownesVanZandt (Nov 2, 2017)

MatisIsLoveMantisIsLyf said:


> I Think im gonna make you feel bad, but your only option are snakes. They need weekly maintance and only feed 3-4 times a month (once weekly or so). They need minimum care, and after all, they dont eat bugs .


Haha, true but since she's freaked out by crickets and mealworms there's no way I can ask her to deal with frozen mice or rats. But that won't be necessarily either, it's not often that I will be gone for a full week and it's OK for her to change water and check that the heat mats are working when I'm away.

I have been reading about and watching videos of ball pythons all day and the more I watch the more I want one.  If and when (probably when) I decide to get one I will need some advice as to how to set up an enclosure properly.


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## schmiggle (Nov 2, 2017)

basin79 said:


> 65f for a week is pushing it in my opinion.


This is absolutely true, particularly with a gorge feeder like snakes--they need outside heat to help them digest their food quickly enough that it doesn't rot inside them, so I know many species bask after feeding. If your house is cool, you will need someone to keep track of your heating equipment, as Basin said earlier. I think large pythons often hide when feeding, but then again, they live on the hot, humid forest floor.

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## Nir Avraham (Nov 2, 2017)

Almost all species of lizards requires daily care. If you really want a lizard, you can take a leopard gecko. I feed mine every week. I just put 30 cockroaches or 100 mealworms in the dishes and they are all super healthy and growing very well.
But, I think that the best option for you is a snake. I'll go with a milksnake or a kingsnake.

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## TownesVanZandt (Nov 2, 2017)

Nir Avraham said:


> I'll go with a milksnake or a kingsnake.


Why would you recommend a milksnake or a kingsnake over a ball python or a cornsnake?


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## Chris LXXIX (Nov 2, 2017)

Cracked me up that Boa or huge snake is a no, ah ah 

Joking aside, in the past the idea touched me as well, but then I always given up the whole thing.

I still continue to believe (and I could be damn wrong, uh) that they (snakes, I mean) require a lot of more attention (heathing, light etc) than the normal inverts I'd love to keep.

With that said, given the chance (but I can't, since venomous snakes are banned here since forever) I would love to keep one of the badass Italian vipers we have here in Northern Italy mountain woods. They are amazing to see, so elegant IMO.

Not exactly venomous like Cobra or something, but the bite require the antivenom shot no matter, nothing to take easily.

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## TownesVanZandt (Nov 2, 2017)

Chris LXXIX said:


> Cracked me up that Boa or huge snake is a no, ah ah


Haha, I´m actually afraid of snakes, so I need something small and as docile as possible 




Chris LXXIX said:


> I still continue to believe (and I could be damn wrong, uh) that they (snakes, I mean) require a lot of more attention (heathing, light etc) than the normal inverts I'd love to keep.
> 
> With that said, given the chance (but I can't, since venomous snakes are banned here since forever) I would love to keep one of the badass Italian vipers we have here in Northern Italy mountain woods. They are amazing to see, so elegant IMO.
> 
> Not exactly venomous like Cobra or something, but the bite require the antivenom shot no matter, nothing to take easily.


Does that viper have horns? At the Balkans they have two types of vipers. One is the common European adder that we also have in Norway and the other one have horns and more potent venom. It might be the same species as the one you have in Italy? The scientific name is _Vipera ammoytes _I think.


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## schmiggle (Nov 2, 2017)

TownesVanZandt said:


> Haha, I´m actually afraid of snakes, so I need something small and as docile as possible
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Vipera aspis and Vipera ammodytes are both present in Italy, and both are more dangerous than Vipera berus, the common European adder. But you lot in Italy ain't got nothing on the timber rattlesnakes we have in western MA  the US in general has a greater diversity of venomous snakes than Europe, as far as I know.

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## Chris LXXIX (Nov 2, 2017)

TownesVanZandt said:


> Haha, I´m actually afraid of snakes, so I need something small and as docile as possible


Well, ah ah, I admit that I will be extremely uncomfortable to be in the same room where there's a (venomous only) snake on the loose... with a _Theraphosidae _(no matter which) not, but with one of those I will probably bring a weapon in no time 



TownesVanZandt said:


> Does that viper have horns? At the Balkans they have two types of vipers. One is the common European adder that we also have in Norway and the other one have horns and more potent venom. It might be the same species as the one you have in Italy? The scientific name is _Vipera ammoytes _I think.


More than one, five actually (including _V.ammodytes_)




_Vipera walser_ was the last one discovered, living in a very little area near Biella city (not so distant, KM speaking, from where I live) and is amazing to see

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## Nir Avraham (Nov 2, 2017)

TownesVanZandt said:


> Why would you recommend a milksnake or a kingsnake over a ball python or a cornsnake?


I have a ball python, and I had about 4 corn snakes.
My dream for few years was buying a milksnake. They are very colorful animals, and very easy to care for. Small sized snake. I bought a milksnake 2 about weeks ago.
There is no big diffrence between the care of a cornsnake, milksnake or a kingsnake. It's all up to you. Ball pythons are boring...

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## TownesVanZandt (Nov 2, 2017)

Nir Avraham said:


> I have a ball python, and I had about 4 corn snakes.
> My dream for few years was buying a milksnake. They are very colorful animals, and very easy to care for. Small sized snake. I bought a milksnake 2 about weeks ago.
> There is no big diffrence between the care of a cornsnake, milksnake or a kingsnake. It's all up to you. Ball pythons are boring...


Hmm. So there´s two more species for me to consider  I read somewhere that milksnakes are a bit more tricky to handle than cornsnakes and ball pythons and that they might be more suitable for someone with some previous snake experience. I really like the look of the kingsnake, though, so that might be an option as well.


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## Crone Returns (Nov 3, 2017)

TownesVanZandt said:


> Hmm. So there´s two more species for me to consider  I read somewhere that milksnakes are a bit more tricky to handle than cornsnakes and ball pythons and that they might be more suitable for someone with some previous snake experience. I really like the look of the kingsnake, though, so that might be an option as well.


Kingsnakes are cool. Used to have one. She wad a lot of fun, and docile. Except when she was shedding. Ate like a pig. Used frozen or prekilled mice.

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## dragonfire1577 (Nov 3, 2017)

Having kept king snakes, milk snakes, corn snakes, carpet pythons and ball pythons I can say right now if you have never kept snakes before I wouldn't actually suggest the ball python. They are often considered beginner snakes and are very docile but honestly I see way more new keepers stressing out about their new ball python refusing food, having a bad shed because they can't get humidity right and developing a respiratory infection. The carpet pythons are my personal favorite and are pretty hardy but all locales except Irian Jaya and Darwin can get over 6 foot and they are nippy as babies until you tame them down. The corn, king and milk snakes are all great snakes with the milk being more shy than the other 2. These snakes are not picky about humidity and can take lower temps than a ball python due to being temperate species plus have great feeding responses, are not prone to being nervous or defensive (especially the corn) and they are not very big snakes.

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## Tim Benzedrine (Nov 3, 2017)

Yes, colubrids (rat-snakes, corn snakes, etc) are a lot less demanding. And more active than ball pythons from what I have seen, I've never actually owned a ball python or any other non-temperate climate snake, mainly for the reasons given above.

In regard to lizards, your best bet might be a leopard gecko. They are not super demanding, but not as easy as many snakes. But, they do not require special UV lighting as some lizards do. However, they do need vitamin and mineral supplementation to avoid metabolic bone disease and higher than room temperature heating (depending on the room, of course), which is not that difficult to achieve under ordinary circumstances and with the proper gear. They can be handled in most cases if you are into that. They come in very many colour and pattern morphs and are considered by many to be the "cutest" of lizards. I have two, an adult that was given to me and a baby that I am rehabbing.


That said, I'd still consider a snake given your requirements for periodic low-maintenance.


I also have a black rat-snake Elaphe pantherophis (I think, they've switched classification a time or two and I always think of it as Elaphe obseletus obseletus in spite of that) and apart from water concerns, I would not be afraid to leave it alone for a week. I'm sure it would not be a concern for the other temperate colubrids such as corns.

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## TownesVanZandt (Nov 3, 2017)

Thanks a lot for all the helpful advice I have been given in this thread . I have decided against getting a gecko until I find a job that will allow me to be home more. I will however get a snake, but given the information in this thread I will go for a kingsnake or a cornsnake rather than a ball python. Since they are kept in similar setups, I will buy the necessary equipment for housing a juvenile specimen and take my time to find the right one. But now I know what kind of reptile I should look for.

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## Tim Benzedrine (Nov 4, 2017)

I think you are making the right choice. For what it's worth, I'd really like to keep a corn snake, but I'm just out of room between my tarantulas, my two geckos, two scorpions and my rat black rat snake. 
I think too many people rush ahead when choosing an exotic pet, often without considering the pros and cons, and ignoring advice offered. You apparently are not one of those types, and I applaud you for that.

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## Nir Avraham (Nov 4, 2017)

Give us more information about what you're looking for, it will be easier for us to help you.
What is going to be the size of the cage? How much money you want to spend on this animal?

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## silverhaze269 (Nov 8, 2017)

My vote would be for a ball python - but make sure you have someone that could come and check in on it when you're away. While you can leave them for long periods pretty easily, you'd want to be sure they didn't run out of water or that there wasn't an issue with an under tank heater malfunctioning or something. My snakes are by far the "easiest" pet I've had in terms of their care. I have 2 BP's and they're both fantastic eaters, but that's not always the case with those guys. Corn snakes are pretty hearty, so they would be a good option as well. I wouldn't recommend a gecko because you can't really leave them alone - most of them need daily misting, at the very least.

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## TownesVanZandt (Nov 8, 2017)

silverhaze269 said:


> My vote would be for a ball python - but make sure you have someone that could come and check in on it when you're away. While you can leave them for long periods pretty easily, you'd want to be sure they didn't run out of water or that there wasn't an issue with an under tank heater malfunctioning or something. My snakes are by far the "easiest" pet I've had in terms of their care. I have 2 BP's and they're both fantastic eaters, but that's not always the case with those guys. Corn snakes are pretty hearty, so they would be a good option as well. I wouldn't recommend a gecko because you can't really leave them alone - most of them need daily misting, at the very least.


Aesthetically speaking the ball pythons are my favourite snakes by far. They have a "kind" face and seem to be so docile and sweet to handle. However, I have decided to get a cornsnake or a kingsnake at this time. As several people pointed out here the ball pythons are more demanding in terms of husbandry and since this will be my first snake I think it will be less stressful for me to have a snake that rarely (if ever) goes on a hunger strike. I also have the impression that ball pythons will be more prone to respiratory infections if humidity and temperatures aren´t on point at all times? If I enjoy having snakes as much as I imagine I would however, I might look into getting a ball python at some point in the future after raising a corn- or kingsnake and gaining some more experience. 

I have bought pretty much everything I need to house a small corn- or kingsnake now (heatmat, thermostat, hygrometer/thermometer, two small hides, water bowl, and an escape proof plastic box that I have drilled ventilation holes in) and is now experimenting to get the hot side and colder side properly before adding a snake to the enclosure  

Oh, and I have read a lot about keeping snakes and are now a bit freaked out about snake mites! How common are they? I live in a smallish apartment with a bunch of tarantulas and cannot possibility treat a snake for mites in there without risking the lives of my Ts, so I am going to do everything in my power to get a healthy snake without mites.

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## silverhaze269 (Nov 10, 2017)

TownesVanZandt said:


> Oh, and I have read a lot about keeping snakes and are now a bit freaked out about snake mites! How common are they? I live in a smallish apartment with a bunch of tarantulas and cannot possibility treat a snake for mites in there without risking the lives of my Ts, so I am going to do everything in my power to get a healthy snake without mites.


Our first snake was a corn snake! Great choice  

We've never had mite problems so I can't really speak to that too much. That being said, we keep our snakes on news paper/paper towel substrate (two layers of news paper, two layers of paper towel), so maybe that has something to do with it? It's nowhere near as aesthetically pleasing as using a "proper" substrate, but it's really easy to clean up, and it's also a good way to monitor if there any health issues happening. We only had a respiratory infection scare once with a BP, and after the fact we figured it was actually just stuck shed on her nose, and not an infection at all. We wanted to be safe though, so we treated her just in case, under the recommendation of the vet. 

From what I hear though, mites are a pretty common problem and while they can be a nuisance to deal with, but they're not the worst.


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