# Hadrurus arizonensis vs. Smeringurus mesaensis



## VictorHernandez (Sep 1, 2012)

I have what I believe a small (young) female Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula that I got from a friend for $10(including tank, decor, 20 crickets, and a Tarantula pet guide). I have wanted to buy a Pandinus Imperator male for a while now (even before I got the tarantula, I suddenly got the spider without me wanting one). I will probably buy a sub-adult from Ken the bug guy once I get payed in september. I am moving to southern Texas next year, so I want to wait until next year to buy a desert scorpion, but I don't know what kind. What would you recommend? Hadrurus arizonensis, or Smeringurus mesaensis? I want a larger kind, that would eat a wider variety of prey, one that is quick, and is active more and more neat to watch doing anything. My female Rose Hair is sooo boring, shes my pet rock... She almost never moves. I think she might molt soon because she hasnt wanted to eat in many weeks. Another thing, do you recommend a male Scorpion, or a female? I know male tarantulas only live around a year at most, and are larger than males.
I would keep the desert scorpion in a dry sand terrarium with some wood, cork bark hideout, and a water bowl. How would I heat a desert scorpion? A lightless ceramic heat emmiter? Oregon is very cold in the winter and very hot in the summer so, I will get a 60 watt, and a 100 watt for the Imperator. Texas I imagine will be hot, the heat lamp could be backup for cold days. Thanks.


----------



## vespers (Sep 1, 2012)

If you think a _G Rosea_ is a boring pet rock, then you are going to like having an Emperor Scorpion even less. At least a Rose Hair will usually sit out visible while doing nothing. An Emperor will remain hidden, doing nothing.  Most often, they'll sit in their hide or burrow, and come out briefly in the middle of the night every few days while you're sleeping.:laugh:

Hadrurus Arizonensis: if you set them up properly with a burrowing medium as substrate, you will often have what is basically a box of clay/sand with a hole in it. They will come out some, certainly more often than most emps, but they'll also spend plenty of time "down the hole". You can catch them digging in the middle of the night though, or you may wake up to find the hole in a new spot or a few hills of substrate moved about. If you're lucky, they may burrow next to the glass too.

Of course, different individuals behave a little differently than others, but those are average behaviors for those species.


----------



## VictorHernandez (Sep 2, 2012)

vespers said:


> If you think a _G Rosea_ is a boring pet rock, then you are going to like having an Emperor Scorpion even less. At least a Rose Hair will usually sit out visible while doing nothing. An Emperor will remain hidden, doing nothing.  Most often, they'll sit in their hide or burrow, and come out briefly in the middle of the night every few days while you're sleeping.:laugh:
> 
> Hadrurus Arizonensis: if you set them up properly with a burrowing medium as substrate, you will often have what is basically a box of clay/sand with a hole in it. They will come out some, certainly more often than most emps, but they'll also spend plenty of time "down the hole". You can catch them digging in the middle of the night though, or you may wake up to find the hole in a new spot or a few hills of substrate moved about. If you're lucky, they may burrow next to the glass too.
> 
> Of course, different individuals behave a little differently than others, but those are average behaviors for those species.


Which scorpion is larger and more active in a sand habitat? Hadrurus, or Smeringurus?
Couldn't I just keep a Hadrurus Arizonensis in zoo med white sand? I read that Hadrurus scorpions do not like too much, moistness, or water at all. I couldn't find the burrowing substrate.


----------



## vespers (Sep 2, 2012)

Mix the sand with Zoo Med's Excavator Clay, using a ratio of about 30 to 40% clay and let it dry.

http://www.zoomed.com/db/products/EntryDetail.php?EntryID=188&DatabaseID=2&SearchID=1


----------



## Collin Clary (Sep 2, 2012)

Hadrurus are larger, but Smeringurus tend to be more active.


If you don't want to buy excavation clay then you can make your own quite simply. (This is often called a "claywater" solution.) All you need to do is buy a small packet of modelling clay (available from most florists and hobby shops) which is really quite cheap.
You would then get a, lets say 10 liter bucket and fill it a third with water. Break small pieces of modelling clay into the water and work them with your fingers until it has dissolved and you have muddy looking water. 
A piece of modelling clay half the size of your hand will be fine for a 10 liter bucket with 3 liters of water in it. 
Once you've dissolved the modelling clay simply add your sand and mix it through well. Wring out the access water and deposit the damp sand in your enclosure. Don't pack it down to hard otherwise you might risk it being to hard for your scorp to burrow in when it's dry.

Place the enclosure in a warm well ventilated spot to dry out and viola, job done.


----------



## gromgrom (Sep 2, 2012)

I really think the Hadurus would win the fight, as they are bred to fight other scorpions, but I mean, it all depends on the size of the invert.

Oh wait...


----------



## VictorHernandez (Sep 3, 2012)

What if I buy both since I like them both? Would having 3 scorpions and a tarantula be too much?


----------



## ShredderEmp (Sep 3, 2012)

You can never get enough as long as you can afford it.


----------



## Collin Clary (Sep 3, 2012)

VictorHernandez said:


> What if I but both since I like them both? Would having 3 scorpions and a tarantula be too much?


Hasn't anyone told you?

You can NEVER have too many inverts.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## ShredderEmp (Sep 3, 2012)

Scorpion1998100 said:


> Hasn't anyone told you?
> 
> You can NEVER have too many inverts.


I just did in the post before you, haha.


----------



## vespers (Sep 3, 2012)

VictorHernandez said:


> What if I but both since I like them both? Would having 3 scorpions and a tarantula be too much?


Nah, its only too much if you or someone you live with thinks so. :biggrin: 
Four arachnids is a fairly modest collection, especially if you compare it to some of the other members' collections around here. Some of these guys keep dozens and dozens of critters filed away in lots of little boxes in heated closets or whatever.  I've never really understood the attraction or desire to keep a pantry full of spider tupperware containers, but to each their own.


----------



## Greenjewls (Sep 5, 2012)

gromgrom said:


> I really think the Hadurus would win the fight, as they are bred to fight other scorpions, but I mean, it all depends on the size of the invert.
> 
> Oh wait...


Yeah, the hairy would win most def!  They are stronger than anything!

---------- Post added 09-05-2012 at 06:24 AM ----------

Victor - you should get both scorpions. Keep the Duner on sand with a nice hide. Believe it or not, both scorpions will drink water but misting is fine because they will put substrate in a water dish.  Don't mist with tap water though, it will cloud the glass.  For the Hairy, definitely give it a burrowing substrate because they love digging and that's what keeps them active and happy.  Use less clay and more sand in the mixture, I would say 1:5.  Keep in mind they live in sandy wash banks where the burrowing is easy.  The harder it is, the slower/less it will dig.  Put a pane of glass right in the middle of the tank and bury it, this will push most of the tunneling against the glass sides.  Ideally you will end up with an "antfarm" looking network of tunnels, where you can watch your hairy at work all the time.  As the loose substrate is kicked up to the surface, damp and tamp it to create a new layer of tunneling substrate.  Hairys are not boring pets if you do this right, they are highly active and fun to watch!  PM me if you want any more info!


----------



## VictorHernandez (Sep 5, 2012)

Greenjewls said:


> Yeah, the hairy would win most def!  They are stronger than anything!
> 
> ---------- Post added 09-05-2012 at 06:24 AM ----------
> 
> Victor - you should get both scorpions. Keep the Duner on sand with a nice hide. Believe it or not, both scorpions will drink water but misting is fine because they will put substrate in a water dish.  Don't mist with tap water though, it will cloud the glass.  For the Hairy, definitely give it a burrowing substrate because they love digging and that's what keeps them active and happy.  Use less clay and more sand in the mixture, I would say 1:5.  Keep in mind they live in sandy wash banks where the burrowing is easy.  The harder it is, the slower/less it will dig.  Put a pane of glass right in the middle of the tank and bury it, this will push most of the tunneling against the glass sides.  Ideally you will end up with an "antfarm" looking network of tunnels, where you can watch your hairy at work all the time.  As the loose substrate is kicked up to the surface, damp and tamp it to create a new layer of tunneling substrate.  Hairys are not boring pets if you do this right, they are highly active and fun to watch!  PM me if you want any more info!


Alright, thank you. I have already bought a juvenile male Emperor Scorpion yesterday for $32 from Ken, and spent quite a lot on supplies. I will try buying a Hairy and a Dune one soon. They look really cool.


----------



## 2nscorpx (Sep 5, 2012)

VictorHernandez said:


> Alright, thank you. I have already bought a juvenile male Emperor Scorpion yesterday for $32 from Ken, and spent quite a lot on supplies. I will try buying a Hairy and a Dune one soon. They look really cool.


A juvenile male P. imperator for $32? That's pointlessly expensive...well, for you.


----------



## darkness975 (Sep 6, 2012)

vespers said:


> If you think a _G Rosea_ is a boring pet rock, then you are going to like having an Emperor Scorpion even less. At least a Rose Hair will usually sit out visible while doing nothing. An Emperor will remain hidden, doing nothing.  Most often, they'll sit in their hide or burrow, and come out briefly in the middle of the night every few days while you're sleeping.:laugh:


True that.  I cannot speak for everyone but one of the two main reasons why I make my invert's enclosures aesthetically pleasing and naturalistic is because that is what I see 90% of the time lol.  The other reason, of course, is to mimic their natural environment as much as possible.


----------



## VictorHernandez (Sep 6, 2012)

2nscorpx said:


> A juvenile male P. imperator for $32? That's pointlessly expensive...well, for you.


it is for me..It was $10 for the scorpion, $2 to complete my order by buying some coconut substrate, and $19 for shipping. But I hear Ken is a good guy, so I went with him. and I wanted a well-maintained male, and I don't think that my local pet shops know how to figure out if a scorpion is a male or a female. I meant $31


----------



## 2nscorpx (Sep 6, 2012)

VictorHernandez said:


> it is for me..It was $10 for the scorpion, $2 to complete my order by buying some coconut substrate, and $19 for shipping. But I hear Ken is a good guy, so I went with him. and I wanted a well-maintained male, and I don't think that my local pet shops know how to figure out if a scorpion is a male or a female. I meant $31


Yes, I have heard that he is a good dealer. I figured that most of the cost was shipping, but I was messing with you. Shipping does really add on though.


----------



## VictorHernandez (Sep 8, 2012)

2nscorpx said:


> Yes, I have heard that he is a good dealer. I figured that most of the cost was shipping, but I was messing with you. Shipping does really add on though.


Yeah shipping is quite a bit. More than the actual order. I will probably order a Dune scorpion from Him in the future.


----------



## VictorHernandez (Sep 10, 2012)

I read that if you wet down the sand, and then let it dry completely, that that should create a stable burowing substrate? Is this true? How would I even dry it...?
like here:
http://scorpionforum.darkbb.com/t911-smeringurus-mesaensis-care
&
http://scorpionsunlimited.webs.com/caresheets.htm
&
http://scorpions.isaac-online.com/s_mesaensisbasic.html

When I get a dune scorpion, I think it will be in a 10 g, 6" of sand, and some decor, and a ceramic heat emitter 100 watts with dimmer.


----------



## 2nscorpx (Sep 10, 2012)

That should work, as it seems to be used quite frequently and is effective. You would let it just sit and dry, so you will have to wait a week probably. Heating it in the microwave won't help, because the water molecules will just be "scrambled".


----------



## VictorHernandez (Sep 11, 2012)

2nscorpx said:


> That should work, as it seems to be used quite frequently and is effective. You would let it just sit and dry, so you will have to wait a week probably. Heating it in the microwave won't help, because the water molecules will just be "scrambled".


Should I leave it sitting with the heat lamp?


----------



## Collin Clary (Sep 11, 2012)

It would certainly make it dry faster.

Excavation clay seems to work best for burrowing. A mix of about 30% clay 70% sand works well. I gave a description of how to make your own earlier in the thread.


----------



## VictorHernandez (Sep 11, 2012)

Yes, but now I have 2 options. Thanks.


----------



## VictorHernandez (Sep 12, 2012)

I have been using the filtered refrigeration water for my arachnids, am I wrong in doing this?


----------



## 2nscorpx (Sep 12, 2012)

No, nothing wrong with that, although demineralized water (distilled) is preferable because, obviously, the drops of water won't mineralize on the sides of the container and allow the scorpion to climb. Otherwise, tap water is best between any other kinds of water.


----------



## Greenjewls (Sep 13, 2012)

I use all my lights/heat emitters when drying sand.  Just try not to burn the house down. If there is 0% clay in the sand it will stay loose and never harden.  Packing down your sand/clay mix will make it harder.  some people dry the mix in 2in layers because 6in takes forever (unless you live in AZ, then a few hours in the sun works).  Heat pad on the bottom will help it evaporate faster also.


----------



## VictorHernandez (Sep 14, 2012)

Scorpion1998100 said:


> It would certainly make it dry faster.
> 
> Excavation clay seems to work best for burrowing. A mix of about 30% clay 70% sand works well. I gave a description of how to make your own earlier in the thread.


How would I measure the percentage? Do I just guess?

---------- Post added 09-14-2012 at 05:17 PM ----------




vespers said:


> Mix the sand with Zoo Med's Excavator Clay, using a ratio of about 30 to 40% clay and let it dry.
> 
> http://www.zoomed.com/db/products/EntryDetail.php?EntryID=188&DatabaseID=2&SearchID=1


How would I measure the percentage? Do I just guess?

---------- Post added 09-14-2012 at 05:20 PM ----------




vespers said:


> If you think a _G Rosea_ is a boring pet rock, then you are going to like having an Emperor Scorpion even less. At least a Rose Hair will usually sit out visible while doing nothing. An Emperor will remain hidden, doing nothing.  Most often, they'll sit in their hide or burrow, and come out briefly in the middle of the night every few days while you're sleeping.:laugh:
> 
> Hadrurus Arizonensis: if you set them up properly with a burrowing medium as substrate, you will often have what is basically a box of clay/sand with a hole in it. They will come out some, certainly more often than most emps, but they'll also spend plenty of time "down the hole". You can catch them digging in the middle of the night though, or you may wake up to find the hole in a new spot or a few hills of substrate moved about. If you're lucky, they may burrow next to the glass too.
> 
> Of course, different individuals behave a little differently than others, but those are average behaviors for those species.


I made a starter burrow against the glass, now he hides there during the day and will come out at around 8 pm. He might dig a burrow later, but right now he is happy in his man-made burrow.


----------



## VictorHernandez (Sep 15, 2012)

Is maybe 10 lbs http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000N5OM8S/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER mixed with 6" of sand (25 lbs?) good enough? how many 5lb sand bags would it take to fill a 10 gallon with 6 inches?
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00109U5WI/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_2?ie=UTF8&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER


----------



## herpist (Sep 16, 2012)

VictorHernandez said:


> I am moving to southern Texas next year, so I want to wait until next year to buy a desert scorpion, but I don't know what kind. What would you recommend? Hadrurus arizonensis, or Smeringurus mesaensis? I want a larger kind,


Hi Victor, H. Arizonensis is the largest desert species to my knowledge (I'm only thinking that as it's common name is giant desert hairy, lol) and mine seem to be quite active late evening/night. I've had a pair of S. vachoni for a couple of weeks now and they seem quite active but don't grow as big.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## VictorHernandez (Sep 24, 2012)

herpist said:


> Hi Victor, H. Arizonensis is the largest desert species to my knowledge (I'm only thinking that as it's common name is giant desert hairy, lol) and mine seem to be quite active late evening/night. I've had a pair of S. vachoni for a couple of weeks now and they seem quite active but don't grow as big.


I have heard of misting their burrow entrance once a week very lightly, and once a day during pre-molt. And also wetting down the substrate and letting it dry once in a while. Do you recommend doing this? (For Hadrurus)
And my P. imperator hasn't really been active lately, he just has been hungry lately, always at the entrance of his burrow waiting for crickets. Not sure if I should be feeding Him all he wants, or keep doing a scheduled feeding?


----------



## darkness975 (Sep 25, 2012)

VictorHernandez said:


> And my P. imperator hasn't really been active lately, he just has been hungry lately, always at the entrance of his burrow waiting for crickets. Not sure if I should be feeding Him all he wants, or keep doing a scheduled feeding?


That's typical P. Imperator behavior.  Mine does the same thing.  Unless I move the hide for cleaning or something all I really see of the scorpion are the chelae sticking out from the entrance.  I would keep a regular feeding schedule as overfeeding would cause problems.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## ArachnidMaster (Sep 25, 2012)

and as long as yoy take care of them


----------



## mholmgree (Sep 25, 2012)

My hairy is boring. Looks gravid or ready to molt, for the last couple months. It has only eaten 2 crickets in the 6 months I've had it. Hardly ever comes out, stays in its maze of burrows in 6in of substrate. 
My dune is awesome. Eats a lot. Out every night at dusk, runs around the tank. Interesting to watch, at least I know he's alive and well, unlike the hairy who could die and I wouldn't even know till it started stinking...
My dune is also a bit bigger. 
Going by my 2, I'd definitely go with a dune over a hairy. Obviously not all scorpions are the same, so your experiences might differ. Just my .02

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## VictorHernandez (Sep 25, 2012)

mholmgree said:


> My hairy is boring. Looks gravid or ready to molt, for the last couple months. It has only eaten 2 crickets in the 6 months I've had it. Hardly ever comes out, stays in its maze of burrows in 6in of substrate.
> My dune is awesome. Eats a lot. Out every night at dusk, runs around the tank. Interesting to watch, at least I know he's alive and well, unlike the hairy who could die and I wouldn't even know till it started stinking...
> My dune is also a bit bigger.
> Going by my 2, I'd definitely go with a dune over a hairy. Obviously not all scorpions are the same, so your experiences might differ. Just my .02


Haha well I guess I could buy a Dune scorpion first. Later a hairy. Do you know how well dunes molt in captivity?


----------



## Greenjewls (Sep 26, 2012)

mholmgree said:


> My hairy is boring. Looks gravid or ready to molt, for the last couple months. It has only eaten 2 crickets in the 6 months I've had it. Hardly ever comes out, stays in its maze of burrows in 6in of substrate.
> My dune is awesome. Eats a lot. Out every night at dusk, runs around the tank. Interesting to watch, at least I know he's alive and well, unlike the hairy who could die and I wouldn't even know till it started stinking...
> My dune is also a bit bigger.
> Going by my 2, I'd definitely go with a dune over a hairy. Obviously not all scorpions are the same, so your experiences might differ. Just my .02


Sounds like you have a juvenile Desert Hairy.  They are not known to molt in captivity.  It is probably overfed and unable to molt, which is probably why it is so dormant. If you keep it at 90f or so it may be able to digest what it has in its gut.  Most "blown up" Desert Hairys that I've had were just overfeeding to prepare for overwintering, not gravid.  I've only had one give birth out of maybe 100 that looked gravid.  If you want I can trade you for an adult that will probably be much more active for you.


----------



## rd_07 (Sep 26, 2012)

big and active scorpion i prefer the h.longimanus or p.transvaalicus
but with h.arizonensis or s.mesaensis...
arizonensis is bit bigger is size but less active than mesaensis. My previous mesaensis were striking in color and really active, if they are hungry they will really chase whatever i put

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## mholmgree (Sep 26, 2012)

Greenjewls said:


> Sounds like you have a juvenile Desert Hairy.  They are not known to molt in captivity.  It is probably overfed and unable to molt, which is probably why it is so dormant. If you keep it at 90f or so it may be able to digest what it has in its gut.  Most "blown up" Desert Hairys that I've had were just overfeeding to prepare for overwintering, not gravid.  I've only had one give birth out of maybe 100 that looked gravid.  If you want I can trade you for an adult that will probably be much more active for you.


It was skinny when I got it. As I stated its eaten 2 crickets in the 6 months I've had it, pretty sure it's not over fed. When I bought it it was supposedly an adult, it's adult sized. My opinion is it's gravid. And from what I've read it will most likely not give me any babies in captivity. I haven't bothered to count so I'm not even sure if it's a female or not. It's kept at 90+ during the day with cooler nights. 6in of substrate that it burrowed into all over, its like a maze in there. The room is set up with all desert species. It is what it is, and it will do what it will do...


----------



## mholmgree (Sep 26, 2012)

A couple crappy pics...
Hairy


Dune


----------



## 2nscorpx (Sep 26, 2012)

Both appear to be adults, the S. mesaensis a male.


----------



## mholmgree (Sep 26, 2012)

2nscorpx said:


> Both appear to be adults, the S. mesaensis a male.


What I was thinking also...


----------



## VictorHernandez (Sep 26, 2012)

The S. mesaensis was my original choice because how the transparent Arizona morph looked. I later hear about the H. arizonensis, so  that was my other choice. I think I'll order a juvenile from Ken the Bug Guy. I was thinking about getting a Hadrurus first, since it can't be bred in captivity and such, and then later get a Smeringurus. But I think I'll go with the Smeringurus first.


----------



## VictorHernandez (Sep 28, 2012)

VictorHernandez said:


> The S. mesaensis was my original choice because how the transparent Arizona morph looked. I later hear about the H. arizonensis, so  that was my other choice. I think I'll order a juvenile from Ken the Bug Guy. I was thinking about getting a Hadrurus first, since it can't be bred in captivity and such, and then later get a Smeringurus. But I think I'll go with the Smeringurus first.


 nah, Hadrurus.


----------



## 2nscorpx (Sep 28, 2012)

VictorHernandez said:


> ...since it can't be bred in captivity and such...


It can't be bred in captivity? Of course it can! It's very difficult, yes, but can be done. It may be not as simple as "replicating its environment" but it seems to made into a bigger deal than it should. Maybe you were being figurative and I'm in an irritated mood.


----------



## VictorHernandez (Sep 30, 2012)

rd_07 said:


> big and active scorpion i prefer the h.longimanus or p.transvaalicus
> but with h.arizonensis or s.mesaensis...
> arizonensis is bit bigger is size but less active than mesaensis. My previous mesaensis were striking in color and really active, if they are hungry they will really chase whatever i put


I am thinking of making a P. Transvaalicus my 5th scorpion, after my P. Imperator, a H. Arizonensis & S. Mesaensis, and a Orthochirus scrobiculosus negebensis(maybe).


----------



## BrettG (Sep 30, 2012)

H.arizonenisis can be bred in captivity,I am looking at 10 right now


----------



## KDiiX (Sep 30, 2012)

2nscorpx said:


> It can't be bred in captivity? Of course it can! It's very difficult, yes, but can be done. It may be not as simple as "replicating its environment" but it seems to made into a bigger deal than it should. Maybe you were being figurative and I'm in an irritated mood.


The more difficult then breeding them is raising them.


----------



## Greenjewls (Oct 1, 2012)

Yeah, sure they can be bred but I haven't heard of anyone having a successful molt more than a couple times in captivity.  That's why people buy WC adults, because there are no CB adults and the WC juveniles die instead of molting...  when I have had babies I let the mother and babies free because I lived in AZ near their habitat.  Anyways "replicating its environment"  would mean giving 10 feet of burrowing substrate because that's how deep they dig burrows in the wild...  and you would probably want to plant a lot of creosote bushes too because the roots release chemicals into the sand that may (or may not) be important for molting


----------

