# venomous snake permits?



## sassysmama (Jul 21, 2008)

Does anyone know of the requirements for getting a venomous snake in california?  I tried to seach online for it, but couldn't find anything other than the list of species illegal without a permit.  I know you need to have a set number of hours working with them at a facility, but I don't know how many, or if there are other issues involved.
Please, this is not a debate on whether or not it is ok to keep venomous snakes.  I know the risks, and clearly I want to obey the law by getting a permit.  I know you can have native rattlesnakes w/o a permit, but I lack the experience to do so safely, IMO.  Going through the process of getting a permit will give me hands on experience and help me figure out if it is something I truly want.  Also, I know that it is a very long process.  I would like to have a venomous species after my daughter graduates high school.  She is going to turn 2 next week, so nobody accuse me of being impatient, lol.  Also, if anyone on here keeps venomous species, I would love to hear your thoughts and experiences.
-Ally


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## gecko_keeper/KBfauna (Jul 21, 2008)

As of about 10 yrs ago, here in Fl, you had to have 1000 documented hrs working with venomous snakes. And it had to be logged by someone that has their permit. I actually ran into someone at the local pet store that was willing to teach me. Check with the Game Commision in your area for regulations and laws. They will answer your questions. I'm glad that your going to do it the right way, unfortunately a lot of people just catch them and then they are in WAY over their head. When I remarried all of that stuff had to go. Not because of my wife, but the added responsibilty can be a bit much with someone that has never done it before.
Hope this helps

GK


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## crpy (Jul 21, 2008)

I suggest you confirm you local ordinances as well. And remember things change and by the time your ready, some moron will have probably made it impossible to keep venomous.

 DISCLAIMER: Dont go by what I give you and get venomous, research the info yourself, of course.  

Here is your regions contact.
http://www.dfg.ca.gov/regions/

California:
Native Venomous: No permit required...possession limit is 2 of each species 
Exotic Venomous: Permit required 
Protected Native Venomous: None 
California Department of Fish and Game 
Wildlife Protection Division 
1416 Ninth St. 
Sacramento, CA 95814


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## Matt K (Jul 21, 2008)

Contact James at Blaberus.com

He has been involved with the California legislation regarding venomous livestock (I think it started with him and some beaded lizards) and has done some work to regulate the regulations.  He has had a suprising amount of reptile dealings....


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## sassysmama (Jul 21, 2008)

Thanks for the info.  And yes, I know that laws can change and that it may well be illegal, permit or not, by the time I'm ready to get one.  I figure if that happens, I'll at least have all the experience, and then I can just move to Texas!;P 
-Ally


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## crpy (Jul 21, 2008)

sassysmama said:


> Thanks for the info.  And yes, I know that laws can change and that it may well be illegal, permit or not, by the time I'm ready to get one.  I figure if that happens, I'll at least have all the experience, and then I can just move to Texas!;P
> -Ally


Yeah as of now in Texas for personal possession you can keep up to 25 native white lined (approved non-protected) spp w/o a permit. Over that a non-game permit is required. Non-game dealers permit for sale of native, and a exotic permit for exotics.


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## ThomasH (Jul 21, 2008)

Well do you have experience with the native hots yet? That should be your first step instead of getting exotic venomous. Then the permit people would feel safer letting you get exotics because you already know the standard protocal.


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## sassysmama (Jul 21, 2008)

I completely disagree with getting a native venomous first.  You don't get a snake and THEN learn how to to care for it safely.  Keeping a venomous snake is a HUGE responsibility and I will make darn sure I can do it properly, or I will not do it at all.  That is bad advice from someone who clearly has no first hand experience on the subject.  Please do not advocate getting a venomous species of snake before having hands on experience.
Also, the "permit people" are law officers from fish and game.  It is not about making them "feel better."  There are strict rules and protocol.  I was just posting because I wasn't exactly sure what the rules were, and it can be a huge nightmare trying to get someone from that department to talk to you on the phone.


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## reverendsterlin (Jul 23, 2008)

sassysmama said:


> I completely disagree with getting a native venomous first.  You don't get a snake and THEN learn how to to care for it safely.  Keeping a venomous snake is a HUGE responsibility and I will make darn sure I can do it properly, or I will not do it at all.  That is bad advice from someone who clearly has no first hand experience on the subject.  Please do not advocate getting a venomous species of snake before having hands on experience.
> Also, the "permit people" are law officers from fish and game.  It is not about making them "feel better."  There are strict rules and protocol.  I was just posting because I wasn't exactly sure what the rules were, and it can be a huge nightmare trying to get someone from that department to talk to you on the phone.


I totally agree with you. First thing is to locate a venomous keeper, preferably one that is commercial or connected with a zoo. Often it is easiest to contact a University biology department that has a herp branch to get a lead. Sometimes these folks will allow a responsible person to work with and learn from them. As well instead of native species (I shudder to think of a new person trying a Pacific Coast Rattle Snake first) there are other less toxic species that are not native to your area. I'm lucky, here in New Mexico a permit is not required and by this stage of my life my experience is somewhat know by several law enforcement agencies through removal work and breeding of some exotic species.
Rev


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## sassysmama (Jul 24, 2008)

Thanks for that info!  I will try to contact a university.  And yes, IMO, a wild caught species that is considered deadly is definately not a snake to get your feet wet!  I've always heard, the best snake to introduce you to venomous species is someone else's, not one that you are responsible for.  Also, a guy that I work with has kept rattlesnakes in the past and is willing to show me how to set up a cage that he found very helpful.  It's coming along.  I think the best way to learn something like this is slowly and patiently.  Reptile keepers don't need any more ignorant people keeping venomous snakes and getting tagged to hurt their reputation.  While the permit process is annoying and could some improvement, all in all I agree with the fact that you shouldn't be able to just pay a few hundred dollars and an animal that has the potential to endager the lives of an entire community.  I saw monacled cobras for sale for less than $100 a few months ago  .  The worst part is that the responsible snake enthusiats are the ones that pay the price for the irresponsibility of a few people that want a "wow factor."
-Ally


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## fantasticp (Jul 25, 2008)

Cali is _not_ an eay state to get a permit. Permits get handed out like they are going out of style in other states, not here. Be prepared to file and file and file and argue again if you hope to get one. And you better own your house and you better have a separate building for them and..and...and.......They just aren't handed out easily. I have friends who have tried for years and years. On the plus side, you can have a Mangrove snake without a permit. (rear fanged) Still pretty cool


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## UrbanJungles (Jul 25, 2008)

No Zoo or institution is going to let you get "hands on" with their collection without some rigorous training beforehand.  I don't let my keeper's near our hots until they have worked with me for a year, minimum.  You have to have some serious dedication to work with hots.

There is a tremendous liability issue if someone (especially someone in training) gets tagged.  You're best bet is to find a permitted hobbyist who will show you the ropes.

Good luck.


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## crpy (Jul 25, 2008)

If you lived near me , I could get ya trained


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## JohnEDove (Jul 25, 2008)

Go over and join venomous.org and ask if anyone knows a hot keeper in your area who might be willing to let you learn under them.
http://www.venomousreptiles.org/speakout/

Reactions: Like 1


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## sassysmama (Jul 26, 2008)

Thanks for all of the suggestions.  Just to put this in perspective, I was being 100% serious when I said that my goal was to have my permit and be ready for the snake when my daughter finishes high school.  I have researched the time and money that this endeavor will cost me and have come up with a rough figure of $25,000 and 16 years.  Yes, I know there are more cost effective ways of doing it, but these are the things I feel are necessary and responsible if I will do it, and I'm probably forgetting a few things, so it will probably go up.  I know that people don't let you work with venomous unless you are dedicated, which is why I would like to take the time and effort to develop my dedication.  To give everyone an idea, I've been working on getting a retic for about a year, and they are totally legal where I live.  There are absolutely no legal requirements before purchase.  I've just been researching care, and looking into getting building permits to build the housing I have planned.  It's basically the size of a large garage.  I don't go into anything unprepared.  But I always appreciate the advice and experience of people who have already done this.  I know nothing about keeping venomous snakes, yet.  Before I get one, I'm sure I will be above and beyond what the permit requirements are.
And yes, rear fanged snakes are cool in their own right.  But I have my heart set on a gaboon, and no other snake is going to replace that.  I am determined to go into this prepared, and when I do get my snake, to be an example for the non-reptile community on how to do it RIGHT.
-Ally


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## reverendsterlin (Jul 26, 2008)

sassysmama said:


> But I have my heart set on a gaboon, and no other snake is going to replace that.
> -Ally


Good choice, I bred Bitis gabonica gabonica (west african gaboon). Even with the experience I have they made me nervous when handling. Fast, strike and hold vipers that dumped loads of venom, quite accurate striking over their back. Definitely not a snake to tail. I never got tired of watching them. I thought about starting with Bitis Nasicornis but then had a heart attack and sold my entire collection instead. Probably the most beautiful and outright dangerous snake I ever kept. You sound like you have your head on and seem serious, if you ever move to New Mexico let me know, I'll pick up some copperheads for fun and get you started (might even see if I can get that old relic in the rattlesnake museum to be nice to you lol). Retics are good for learning husbandry in general but see if you can locate some coachwhips, they give great training for speed and usually have a nasty enough attitude to strike regularly for years lol.
Rev


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## crpy (Jul 26, 2008)

I used to work  B. nasicornis , They are beautiful and like you said fast fast strikers. The babies are brilliantly colored. I have pictures but old school ones not digital.


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