# The P. Dictator



## Deolok

I have been doing some small research on this species and as always, they are incredibly rare. In fact I thought it was just something someone made up. Apparently not, they are indeed a living arachnid. 

The link to the picture on scorpion files-
http://www.ub.ntnu.no/scorpion-files/p_dictator(f).jpg

Their known orgins are: Cameroon , Congo , Equatorial Guinea , Gabon , and Nigeria. 

There common name is Kaiserskorpion (which I believe is german).

They are currently protected by CITES and their distrubution through the pet trade to me is still unknown. 

I will continue to post back when I find more then just basic information on them. If you know anything, post back! :?


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## Gigas

If you say Kaiserskorpion to a german collector, they think P. imp.
Im sure most people who own/collect scorps know of this sp. Goodluck finding info on this scorp as you said its very rare.

I also thought it was a joke to begin with, p. imperator now p. dictator  but i think i looked that up before i got my first scorp, i waited a looong time before i could get my first.


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## Deolok

what do you mean? You searched for a P. dictator as your first pet or imperator?


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## Deolok

Still searching! I may find some interesting info out pretty soon!


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## Deolok

Can anyone tell me what this lingo is?

Allekirjoittanut matkailee tässä välissä muutaman viikon, joten ei kannata huolestua jos ylläpidon sähköposteihin ei vastailla tai kannatusjäsenyydet ei astu ihan samalla kellonlyömällä voimaan kun maksu kilahtaa tilille...  Lueskelen toki satunnaisesti postia, mutta tuskin mitään suurempia operaatioita pystyn nettikahviloista suorittamaan.


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## Brian S

Deolok said:
			
		

> Still searching! I may find some interesting info out pretty soon!


You may be searching for a looooooooooooong time. I never could find out much about them


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## Bayushi

P. Dictator is one of the holy grail species..... it might be easier to find an honest and for true unicorn than it is to ever see  a P. dictator on the hobby.


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## Deolok

Ha, are you serious?! Why are they so rare?


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## Brian S

Probably because of the country they are native to. It either doesnt allow exporting or it is one of those countrys that they issue weapons upon entering to protect you from the guerillas LOL


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## Deolok

So what would issueing weapons to protect us effect the way we find this scorpion? There must be a way to find one, I have seen quite a few more pictures of them.


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## Deolok

Well according to the import/export act of singapore in chapter 92A you need to obtain a liscence to enter the field, obtain, and transport and species of wildlife from that area...


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## Bayushi

think about it. a P Dictator would run you a pretty penny. i mean H swammerdammi selling for 200 bucks... so P.dict would be running the same if not more. Also as stated several of the countries listed as being in it's home range are not the most hospitible there are in africa, what with the state of their governments.


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## Prymal

Deo,

As Brian implies above: Even in countries that would allow exportation of certain species, political unrest, civil wars and other conflicts (e.g. Somalia, Sudan, etc.) often prohibit collecting in certain countries or regions. In some regions, the only thing you're likely to collect is some rounds from an AK or FAL!
In other countries, laws regarding the collecting and exportation of wildlife are rigidly enforced carrying heavy penalties (e.g. Brasil, RSA, etc.).
Of course, there is always the opportunity for the enterprising - there are species from Brasil & India in the hobby, and several other closed-for-export countries. In some regions, all you need is $$$ and you can get whatever you want once you make the "right" connections. Like the old adage - everything and everyone has a price!


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## Deolok

They also can not issue a warrant for capture and exporting them either. Apparently they are endangered as well... Whos coming with me to Africa to obtain this rare species of Scorpion!?


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## Brian S

Some of those countrys in Africa could be a little dangerous to an American/European bug collector. Many of those nations have more civil wars than Carter has liver pills. That's what the weapons are for even though I was being sarcastic.
Bottom line is that there are several bug species in Africa (probably some undescribed) but going there and getting them could be like Russian Roulette


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## Deolok

We could use my powerful form of camoflauge! I call it "ground!"







I want this scorpion!


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## Bayushi

Tell ya what.. you pay for all my visas and the travel accomodations, with a long stop over in japan included and i will think about going to africa to help you get caught breaking the law.


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## Deolok

Excellent! Ha what a trip it would be. To complete strangers leave the United States in search of a rare breed of scorpion, but to there disliking they run into a few other problems along the way...

The Action...
"Bayushi, get down! The Monkey Dogs are here!"

The Suspense
"Is this it Deolok? Is this him!?"

The Horror
"Look at this mess, its like an AIDS epodemic broke loose after it rained malaria."

The Romance
"Deolok! Shes back in Japan...She needs me...!"

The Friendship
"Bayushi...I need you!"

Two men! 
One Species!
No way Out...

Van Damn & Michael McChaunhey in...

*BOOOMMM!!!!*

The Venom of Africa....

In theaters the summer I get screwed....


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## Bayushi

sadly you are pitching an action flick and seeing how both Chris farley and john candy are dead.. you need to cast another fat comedian in my role.


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## CaptainChaos

Deolok said:
			
		

> Can anyone tell me what this lingo is?
> 
> Allekirjoittanut matkailee tässä välissä muutaman viikon, joten ei kannata huolestua jos ylläpidon sähköposteihin ei vastailla tai kannatusjäsenyydet ei astu ihan samalla kellonlyömällä voimaan kun maksu kilahtaa tilille...  Lueskelen toki satunnaisesti postia, mutta tuskin mitään suurempia operaatioita pystyn nettikahviloista suorittamaan.


That´s Finnish. The guy who wrote it is on vacation for a few weeks.


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## Arietans

> Tell ya what.. you pay for all my visas and the travel accomodations, with a long stop over in japan included and i will think about going to africa to help you get caught breaking the law


Visa LOL

Visas are no good in central Africa. All that works are bribes. I had to spend two weeks in a jail in Cameroon to learn that lesson. As for bug collecting, they won't allow you to leave the country with them, unless you give them a big bribe. The only way we have ever succeeded is by driving. By air you have no chance, unless you know someone high up or you have enough money for a bribe.

Central Africa is a whole other planet. Last year I bought a coke in Malawi that had been bottled in 1993. In most of the countries they kick your luggage out the plane and you go and search for it on the runway. Customs consists of a guy with a stamp. If you look rich they will arrest you on fake charges and force you to pay a bribe. There is no "can I make a phone call" or "I want a lawyer" in central Africa.

Soooooo....

Good luck!


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## H. cyaneus

Arietans said:
			
		

> Visa LOL
> 
> Visas are no good in central Africa. All that works are bribes. I had to spend two weeks in a jail in Cameroon to learn that lesson. As for bug collecting, they won't allow you to leave the country with them, unless you give them a big bribe. The only way we have ever succeeded is by driving. By air you have no chance, unless you know someone high up or you have enough money for a bribe.
> 
> Central Africa is a whole other planet. Last year I bought a coke in Malawi that had been bottled in 1993. In most of the countries they kick your luggage out the plane and you go and search for it on the runway. Customs consists of a guy with a stamp. If you look rich they will arrest you on fake charges and force you to pay a bribe. There is no "can I make a phone call" or "I want a lawyer" in central Africa.
> 
> Soooooo....
> 
> Good luck!


I'm soo going now...

Mike


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## Arietans

As I said, good luck!

You will never forget the experience.


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## H. cyaneus

Is it the same for countries north of South Africa? They got spp. I want...

Mike


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## Arietans

> Is it the same for countries north of South Africa? They got spp. I want...
> 
> Mike


These are countries north of South Africa I am talking about. Senegal, Cameroon, Nigeria, Dem. Rep. of Congo, Kenya, Nigeria, Liberia, Zambia etc.

South Africa is not in the same playing field as these countries. Many civil wars, violence etc. To go unaccompanied anywhere is a death warrant.


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## Gigas

H. cyaneus said:
			
		

> Is it the same for countries north of South Africa? They got spp. I want...
> 
> Mike


Though you are less likely to be shot (probably more likely to be carjacked), 
not so long ago 3 T collectors spent a short spell in jail there trying to catch T's. Their wildlife exportation laws are extremely strict, and i hink with good reason. When H. hainanum got discovered it was weeks before they were over collected and their habitat near destroyed.


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## Arietans

> Though you are less likely to be shot (probably more likely to be carjacked),
> not so long ago 3 T collectors spent a short spell in jail there trying to catch T's. Their wildlife exportation laws are extremely strict, and i hink with good reason. When H. hainanum got discovered it was weeks before they were over collected and their habitat near destroyed.


Thanks for that. Laws here regarding exportation are extremely strict. You will go to jail if caught.


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## Gigas

sorry about the whole carjacking coment, ever since i watched that one carte blanche South African roads have never been the same to me (i was 10)


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## Arietans

> sorry about the whole carjacking coment, ever since i watched that one carte blanche South African roads have never been the same to me (i was 10)


No sweat mate. It doesn't help you dance around the truth. My country is rife with crime, but only the really big cities.


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## Gigas

It is a shame, i used to love my trips there during the summer holidays, such a beautiful place, the change in atmosphere was instant as you got messina, Enjoyed the bush much more than Zim


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## Arietans

I enjoy the bush more than anything else.

I've spent most of my life in it.  There I have no fear, none whatsoever.

I fear people. Animals don't have ulterior motives. There is always a reason why it wants to kill you. People are different. People can smile and stab you in the back at the same time.

Besides, I'd rather be killed by a croc than rot in a hospital.


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## Leiurus87

yeah, if you choose to go, you must be one adventurous guy. Id love to see it all, but i think its far too risky for a nonnative to be caught slinking around in the bush. Id have to have a large contigent of armed guards.


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## Arietans

If you go often enough you get used to it. But to try and catch something and leave with it the first outing there......... methinks it won't happen


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## Leiurus87

i think the continent is a very beautiful place and has many wonderful people, but im a bit fearful due to all the illnesses and strife going around now. ill just have to sit it out and wait for some of those species to appear on the market.


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## Scorpfanatic

i believe some one form this board once said that he bought one which got mixed identity in a group of emp or some special shiment or something .. hmm,.. let me hit the search function ...


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## Michiel

I like animals better to, there is no double standards or hidden agenda's in them. You see poor underfed little african children on TV, so you deposit money on the account, and.......YES, you happen to finance another private war for some idiot with 60 palaces keeping dictator......
Africa will stay this way (poor,underfed, diseases and torn by civil wars) for another couple of decades at least...::wall:


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## Scorpfanatic

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=64747&highlight=p.dictator


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## Arietans

If the people in power would stop with there genetalia measuring contest, and see how beautiful their countries are, and how much they have to offer the world things will change so much!

As for diseases, you have been innoculated for most when you were a baby. Advantages of a First world country.


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## Arietans

Also, I used to go there quite often. Those people may be starving, but there are more good people than bad. People that go out of their way to show you how proud they are of their country. People that try to make the bad look better be smiling when they greet you.

There are good people there.

One of my best friends, Benji, lives in Ghana. You would be hard pressed to find a better man.


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## Deolok

SO... Check this out! This could be the plan to retrieve the P. Dictator...

Option A. Becoming a celebirty and hire some body guards and say its one of those "I need to get away trips."

Option B. Fly into Northern Africa, Cairo in Egypt. This way we can avoid some if not most of the corrupt goverments. Take Dune Buggies With plenty of gas around the parimeter of Africa... This will take several days! We will set up camp and have 2 men on guard every night... They sleep on the way their (who ever was up). We will eventually make it to the large inlet cover looking area of africa. This is also where the only region of tropical rain forest is left there. Now We head inward, in complete stealth (also we are armed to the teeth). Search for the P. Dictator. Now we take a boat directly off the shore of our location, a helicopter will come on the Atlantic to pick us up once we are a safe distance off the shore of Africa (2-3 miles). It is also probly best done in night fall as well... (only travel by night).


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## Arietans

A good plan, but here is better one.

Land in Nigeria. Leave the capital city as soon as you can. Travel at night to the border of the country you wish to visit. Bribe the border guard. Ask for a guide (its usually his brother). Ask him to take you to a neutral village.

Bribe the village elder (for silence of your presence).

Ask the children to take you to where you might find scorpions. 

Leave the same day, as you came.


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## Deolok

What do you mean leave the same day? You want to do this all in one day?


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## Arietans

Your destination country, not everything


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## Deolok

Ah, how much are the bribes going to cost us?


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## Michael

I know personally a chef or another high person wo works in Nigeria by shell. 
he told me some stories... 

Not worth to take a risk!!


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## Deolok

Think of a scorpion worth $200+ ... Now imagine it having babies...Still not worth it?


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## Gigas

how much is your life worth? i know its an extreme but it could very easily happen


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## pandinus

wow, let's hope arietans is the only african reading this thread. lol


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## Deolok

Oh hush hush! My life...Hmm... *thinking bubble --> ((($200 scorpion is free... And its babies will be sold at $100 a pop.... Average is 8-12... possibly $1200... With more then one...)))

How much for a areoplane ticket to Cairo!? Lol

Well I wish it were possible, but wern't there also sightings of these creatures in Nigeraga (i think thats how its spelled).

I kinda wanna take a trip to the Amazon and explore down their. This is probably less dangerous in terms of human attack.


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## Gigas

Nigerias just as bad?


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## Deolok

Are you asking or telling? Its in south america, bit of goverment their. At least it will be easier to get to!


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## Arietans

Nigeria is bad, but the other countries are worse.

If ever you decide to go, just remember you are not at home. Keep your wits about you, never go anywhere alone with someone. 

Also, don't eat the meat.


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## mikeythefireman

Deolok said:
			
		

> Are you asking or telling? Its in south america, bit of goverment their. At least it will be easier to get to!



Uh.....Nigeria is in Africa.  Not sure what country you're thinking of, but there aren't any in South America that start with the letter "N".


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## Arietans

mikeythefireman said:
			
		

> Uh.....Nigeria is in Africa.  Not sure what country you're thinking of, but there aren't any in South America that start with the letter "N".


A good point


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## Deolok

No not nigeria... Ill try and spell it out...

Nigeragwa....I think thats right!


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## Arietans

Oh, okay

I think its "Nicaragua"


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## Deolok

Yea! Sorry for the spelling... Its located in South America isn't it?


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## Scorp guy

wow, this is truly an amazing subject here.

Deolok, all i can say is, try hard at something you really want, and i'm sure you'll get it, even if your running away, looking like a james bond scene, with bullets wizzing past your ear, and you, with a bag of dictators, getting into your rinky-dink land rover  lol....funny thought really.


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## Deolok

I deffinently want one...I love my emps sure, but the Pandinius have always amazed me, their size...strength...color... I want one so bad and I think I will do almost anything to retrieve one. (Sadly still in highschool). I go to every petstore to see if they accidently through one in with the emps or Hemps...


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## Arietans

If no one minds, I want to tell you guys what happened with my first trip to the Congo.

Just some history first.

When I went to the Congo, three tribes were fighting for control of the country. It got so bad that the UN had to step in. Tribes killing children, bashing babies to death on rocks etc. Its macabre, but the truth. Some tribes are so barbaric they run through the bush naked, and eat the casualties of war.

In any event, I decided to go. More to the centre of the country, since the UN had control of that area.

I was probably one hour over the border when the shooting started. Veering off the road, I floored the land rover through the bush, eventually ending up at a small village. The villagers knew that I would need help, since I am white int the middle of the Congo. Some of their men went out to join the fighting, and eventually had my assailants driven off.

My radiator had been shot, my front right tire and my back seat! I stayed in the village for three days, and then had a guide and two armed men for company to the UN encampment.

I spent another month there and caught some beautiful snakes.

The UN helped me across the border again.


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## pandinus

i think that the point is that as a white, american, highschool kid, your chances of making it out of africa alive with scorps are very slim. but hey, we all gotta dream right?

and as far as nicaragua is conerned, it is actually in central america. I dont believe i have ever heard of a pandinus sp. in the new world, but if you can cite your source, i would be very interested to see it. i know that there is now a european colony of C. vittatus, so nothing would really suprise me.


John


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## pandinus




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## Gigas

is that a picture of one? apart from maybe wider chela it looks just like a p.imp


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## JSN

I'll stick with emps until I dont have to risk my life to get one of those....


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## Deolok

Ya gotta have dreams ya'know? Without them all we will have is memories and not the abilities to have new ones that bring us to a moment of happiness. I know it maybe impossible to own one at this point, but I would really like to hope it be possible to own one in the near future.

Arietans what is this small island off the cost of Africa?







The green is where the P. Dictators are located.


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## pandinus




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## Arietans

> Arietans what is this small online off the cost of Africa?



Deolok, I can't see the pic


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## Ryan C.

Hi Arietans,

The pic probably got removed because of copyright violation but here is the same pic. http://carbon.unep-wcmc.org/output/spp_shade_CARBON244474813234.png


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## Arietans

Thanks

Here you are: From the top is Nigeria, Cameroon, Gabon and the Dem. Rep. of the Congo. The very small country in between is Guinea.


Cameroon is not for first timers and neither is the Congo. Nigeria can be up and down, but as long as you have money you will be fine. Gabon is also okay, but be awake and don't trust anyone (don't be rude, but don't trust anyone). Guinea is also up an down, but probably the easiest of them all.
Keep in mind that if they catch you trying to export caught animals you will have to pay a hefty bribe. 
For these countries, go there and get to know some of the people. But people with influence. So you might have to go a few times.
When you eventually get to catch something, ask them to help you into Angola and go home from there.

This is not advice on illegal exportation. None of those governments could care less about the animals, its your money they want. And besides, if it were as easy as what I wrote it here you would've had your P.dictator long ago 

Another thing, if you think street violence in the US is bad you will get an eye opener of monumental proportions.


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## Michiel

Hey Pandinus, I never heard of a European population of C.vittatus 

Where did you get this info????


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## pandinus

Michiel said:
			
		

> Hey Pandinus, I never heard of a European population of C.vittatus
> 
> Where did you get this info????


it was quite a while ago somewhere on here, i think it was mentioned as being somewhere around spain or portugal. anyone feel free to hop in and support or correct this.


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## pandinus

> Here in the region where I live ( east of spain) you can find: buthus occitanus, esucorpius flavicaudis and balearicus and besilasius xambeui.
> And in the south of spain you can fin also c. vittatus ( a new invasor) in the west you cand find B. ibericus, and in the african regions of spain a lot of morocco scorpions ( but spanish at last)
> At last I only found B.o and E. balearicus.


http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=46676&page=3&highlight=spain+vittatus


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## PIter

> A introduced colony of the South American scorpion Centruroides gracilis has been reported from the Canary Islands


http://www.ub.ntnu.no/scorpion-files/european_scorp.php

Not C vittatus, but not far from it.


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## Deolok

Its not like I plan on going any time soon... I am just curious in case ya'know I or anyone else on this forum suddenly have an adventours streak about them. 

I do think though, that this whole P. Dictator thing could make a wonderful movie... It would be like.... "The Cave" + "Lords of War" + "Congo" ... More or less rated R... Because my character would have a big nasty sex scene a contract AIDS or something :}


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## Arietans

> I do think though, that this whole P. Dictator thing could make a wonderful movie... It would be like.... "The Cave" + "Lords of War" + "Congo" ... More or less rated R... Because my character would have a big nasty sex scene a contract AIDS or something


A plot that's ......... interesting


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## Deolok

Heh oh yea. Well Shoot, where do we go from here... We still dont know much about these rare scorpions. Does anyone have any information on them, maybe as to how they came to be? Maybe you can cross 2 different scorpions of Pandinius to form one the Dictator? I know the Dictators are much larger, they are basically a forest emperor on roids. (its my assumption, correct me if I am wrong). So could we cross a P. Imp. with a P. Cav. or something? 


I guess we should consider the traits as well...

PCav-
Size
Weight
Chelae Size
Metasoma Size
Mesasoma segment size....etc....


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## kahoy

if your going to africa you need to buy bulletproof vest first, a bulletproof helmet and a bulletproof knee/elbow padding...

just to make sure that dictators cant shoot bullets at you.


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## Deolok

Ha! ... Maybe I should arm myself up with my own aray of weapons? 

Check List


Parachute
Rations
Short Sword
AK
Magnum
Rubber Chicken
$10,000
$1,000 in Gold Coins
Picture of Self in 5th Grade
Picture of Pandinius Dictator
Exportation and Importation of Exotic Creatures License 

Sound good? Anyone else have any ideas?


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## Arietans

Well, if you do go, let me know  I would love to have company.


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## Deolok

Ha, well you got it! That maybe in a year or so, but I will be sure to let you know.


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## Arietans

A year or so it is


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## Deolok

So what are the odds that a P. Dictator would get caught accidently along with some P imperators?


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## PIter

Deolok said:
			
		

> Ha! ... Maybe I should arm myself up with my own aray of weapons?
> 
> Check List
> 
> 
> Parachute
> Rations
> Short Sword
> AK
> Magnum
> Rubber Chicken
> $10,000
> $1,000 in Gold Coins
> Picture of Self in 5th Grade
> Picture of Pandinius Dictator
> Exportation and Importation of Exotic Creatures License
> 
> Sound good? Anyone else have any ideas?


Rubber chicken?  

Btw P dictator is protected by Cites, just so you know.


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## Deolok

Well so are P Imps, Cites just regulates the amount that flow into the pet trade.


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## kahoy

just say that its a heterometrus. LOL!!

the rubber chicken if for lure for any nearby pradator, just throw it when a T-rex comes near you, ohh, having about a hundred of it makes about 99% that you are safe from predators.


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## Deolok

Ha, Not to mention I could use it as a sort of holy relic couldn't I? Hmmm....


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## P.jasonius

*I'll go*

I too have the P. dictator bug [for some reason].  I have military experience, (infantry) my own body armor, and a friend from Kenya that won't help.  lol
Get the funds together.  Let's go shoppin.  
I've always wanted to see the Congo.  Hell, in a couple years when I get my degree I may even be able to get a grant for the thing and make it legit.  Do your homework, get serious, learn how to shoot; field research is for Indiana Jones, not Bill Nye the science guy.


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## skinheaddave

P.jasonius said:


> field research is for Indiana Jones, not Bill Nye the science guy.


I'm glad you said that -- because Indiana Jones was a professor of archaeology.  Yes, you need a variety of field skills to go out there and get stuff.  But to go to all that trouble just to have a pretty bug to put in a box is an absolute waste of time and money in my opinion.  At the very least, one should get in contact with those working with those genera and geographic areas so that you can collect relevent data for them, even if you can't do the research yourself.

And while everyone is pushing the fact that humans are the dangerous ones, nature can be quite dangerous itself if you don't know what to expect.  Doing some research into the flora and fauna of an area can definitely keep you safer and may also help in your quest.  And definitely don't expect to find much on your first few trips -- especially if you are going without experienced people.  

Cheers,
Dave


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## kahoy

yup, agree...

any chances that you might die before getting on africa...
plane crash
etc.

chances that you die on africa before getting dictator
killed by whoever wants to kill you
killed by parasitic insects
drowned on a quicksand, forest version(lol)
etc.

chances that you die after getting a dictator
you dont know that its it venomous (no one knows since no one ever found dic)
killed by whoever wants to kill you
killed by parasitic insects
drowned on a quicksand, forest version(lolx2)
etc.

chances that the dictator that you get was very old
and it died...


ohhhh so sad on the last one...


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## Jeremy Huff

Hi All,

I am curious where that initial photo that begins this post is from.  I am curious because I caught that specimen and was standing next to the photographer when it was taken....Very nice animals

Jeremy


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## Bayushi

Jeremy Huff said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I am curious where that initial photo that begins this post is from.  I am curious because I caught that specimen and was standing next to the photographer when it was taken....Very nice animals
> 
> Jeremy


to the best of my knowledge that is a Rick west photo from 2003. i think it's from his website, but i can't be certain


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## skinheaddave

It is Rick's picture submitted to The Scorpion Files and posted as per this thread.

Cheers,
Dave


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## Jeremy Huff

Thanks,
I knew it was Rick's photo, I just wasn't sure where it was posted.
Somewhere I have a slide of my holding a few of them.  I will try to find it and post it.

Jeremy


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## Deolok

Time to ressurect this old post. I do this because now I am looking for more information on this Dictator and was wondering if anyone had located any yet? I am writing a paper on it for one of my classes and I am trying to give examples of rare, extremly posioness, docile, aggressive, and common scorpions. Was hopeing to get some information about the Dictator. Anyone find anything new? 

Herd African government might go unitary? (This just a rumor? Or after America is done with Iraq are we heading down to the Congo?  :} )


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## G. Carnell

Deolok said:


> Herd African government might go unitary? (This just a rumor? Or after America is done with Iraq are we heading down to the Congo?  :} )




that would never ever happen, and thats a good thing!

P.dictator has scant information on the web unfortunately


----------



## Deolok

G. Carnell said:


> that would never ever happen, and thats a good thing!
> 
> P.dictator has scant information on the web unfortunately


What do you mean that is scant? And why wouldn't African government ever go unitary? To be honest I am not even sure what the current government their is right now. I know its not a democracy  , is it a form of dictatorship?


----------



## Thaedion

Deolok said:


> TWas hopeing to get some information about the Dictator. Anyone find anything new?


Here is a excerpt to an 'excel' file from CITES website: (it shows Total net trade in wild-Appendix-II Invertebrata by taxon 1995-1999)
------------------|--------|-------|--------|--------|-------|-------|
Taxon                 |  Term   | 1995  |  1996   |  1997   |  1998 |  1999  |
------------------|--------|-------|--------|--------|-------|-------|
Pandinus dictator  |  bodies |   0     |       0   |      10  |    0    |    0    |
Pandinus dictator  |   live    |   12    |      0   |      210 |  400   |    0    |
------------------|--------|-------|--------|--------|-------|-------|---|
Pandinus imperator | bodies  |  20     |       0   |    22     |   0      |    0       |
Pandinus imperator |   live    |  43457 |  56367 |   82459 |  96364 |   98884  |
------------------|---------|--------|--------|--------|--------|---------|

_(Sorry about how jumbled it looks :8o it looked good as I wrote it)_

You can see they have exported P. dic. but not as many as P. imp.  

here is the link I found it at, *"st2001inv_totals.xls"* Rows 81 - 85

Also this has been an interesting read, if you ever do get a mating couple of P. dic. I'd buy some from you  

here also are some links to pics of what you might run into in these countries...    

*Link 1*  
*Link 2*


----------



## Deolok

But did you read the details on Abdullahi Amadu? He and the rest of his crew are entertainers. I am sure for a price they would gladly lead a group of explores to a Dictator. Though I am sure loyalty comes at much higher priced compared to directions/guidance.


Do they have an arangatang on a leash too? That is such a crazy country. But think...If you were to enter Africa, armed to the teeth and with one mission...To find the P. Dictator. (Rarest Scorpion of them all ((For arguments sake))) That would be an incredible movie...

They would call it,

Dictator
Documentry

OR

Dictator
Based on a true story...


Holy hell, what an idea. Think I'll start writing down some ideas for a possible book or script. Anyone got any comments/ideas?


----------



## twirl and kill

might work as a documentary...:?


----------



## Deolok

I wonder if it would make a good topic for a term paper...?


----------



## drapion

Blah,Blah,Blah...


----------



## Deolok

I found this link...

http://www.herppi.net/gallery//displayimage.php?pos=-324

Anyone know the language?


----------



## EAD063

Deolok said:


> I found this link...
> 
> http://www.herppi.net/gallery//displayimage.php?pos=-324
> 
> Anyone know the language?


Looks Russian/German to me.. but I'm an idiot when it comes to European languages, too darn many of them....


EDIT: Did the babel fish translator both full page and some by word and apparently it's neither.


----------



## Thaedion

Deolok said:


> I found this link...Anyone know the language?


I'm going to say Finnish. When I copy one of the words on the web page and 'Google' it with the word 'translate' after it it comes up in the results as Finnish.


----------



## EAD063

Thaedion said:


> I'm going to say Finnish. When I copy one of the words on the web page and 'Google' it with the word 'translate' after it it comes up in the results as Finnish.


Well I was close, the two countries neighbor eachother correct...   We should start a petition and send it to the discovery channel network asking them to try and scoop us one some over there so that way it can be aviable in the us pet trade with minimal interference with naturally occuring populations.

Although, they may just laugh at us. LOL I would too.


----------



## lucanidae

I found a P. dictator specimen in the lab I work in today. It was in a scorpion display case, collected in 1973...the location I forget though.  About a 5 inch specimen. I'll look again tommorow. This is dead and dried for decades though, so probably not what you are looking for.


----------



## Deolok

EAD063 said:


> Well I was close, the two countries neighbor eachother correct...   We should start a petition and send it to the discovery channel network asking them to try and scoop us one some over there so that way it can be aviable in the us pet trade with minimal interference with naturally occuring populations.
> 
> Although, they may just laugh at us. LOL I would too.


Wait a minute! You might be on to something! Maybe they would and you know Discovery Channel/Animal Planet, always pleasing by the demographics. I'll give it a shot and send something in about it.

lucanidae, can you take a picture or two of it? They would be greatly appreciated!


----------



## Thaedion

Greetings Deolok;

here is another set of links to pic and page for your _'holy grail'_.

*Pic of P dictator specimen*

*Link to page I believe it is Hungarian*


----------



## Thaedion

Hello again;

here is a *Link to a PDF* that may be of interest to you, it is titled "On the Scorpions of Gabon and Neighboring Countries..." and has 32 references to P dictator in it. an excerpt _"Although P. dictator has not been redescribed since its original description, the diagnostic characters of this species have been thoroughly elaborated in three papers."_ It list the papers, you could dig deeper and search those papers out for more info.

here is a pic of the distribution of 3 of the pandinus spp






FIGURE 13. Map ofWest Africa illustrating the known distributional ranges of Pandinus dictator (Pocock, 1888) (triangles), Pandinus gambiensis Pocock, 1899 (circles), and Pandinus imperator (C. L. Koch, 1841) (squares), based on data from Vachon (1970), Lamoral and Reynders (1975) and the present contribution.​


----------



## HackoDis

so what is the P.Dictator ?? How is it different from P.Imperator ?

I think i'll keep my P.Imperator


----------



## EAD063

HackoDis said:


> so what is the P.Dictator ?? How is it different from P.Imperator ?
> 
> I think i'll keep my P.Imperator


Goto the scorpion files and check the pic and you'll know why. P dictator is like the 8 cylinder version of the pandinus genus. If they were readily aviable than I woul definently get one... Probaly not as lame as imperator. Plus the scarcity of the species makes it especially popular.


----------



## HackoDis

Ok so make sure i have this right. P.Dictator, is a monster right ?? while P.Imperator is the smaller cousin?

I compared pics of both and Dictator seems like a monster....


----------



## LeilaNami

basically  I've got the dictator bug too...now they should describe a new highly-cannibalistic species P. democratus


----------



## P.jasonius

lucanidae said:


> I found a P. dictator specimen in the lab I work in today. It was in a scorpion display case, collected in 1973...the location I forget though.  About a 5 inch specimen. I'll look again tommorow. This is dead and dried for decades though, so probably not what you are looking for.


Due to the limited availability of photos, a pic of even a preserved specimen would be of some value to the boards.  Give all the dictator-heads their fix.  Detailed photos would be awesome, considering few, if any, of us have ever even seen one.
What was its size?
More, pleaze.


----------



## kahoy

just asking, what are the rare species of Pandinus that everyone wants to see?
:?


----------



## EAD063

look at the title of the thread kah.. lol


----------



## kahoy

EAD063 said:


> look at the title of the thread kah.. lol


i mean "what else", sorry...


----------



## EAD063

kahoy said:


> i mean "what else", sorry...


Well why the heck didn't you say so!!!!! :}   One I want to see, I originally saw on the television. I was watching "Wild Boys" and they were in Africa, and there was what they called a "Copper Emperor Scorpion". Look like a regular one except it was a rusty brown color. It was pretty large so I don't think it was just a sub-adult emperor, plus they were with a native African and he even pointed it out as a "Copper Emperor". Stupidly one of the shows hosts pressed on his head a tad so it would sting him, it's the third time he's done that with a scorpion, once was some sort of hetermetrus and another was actually in a cave but the natives said it was an emperor, there was actually a ton of them all grouped together on a ledge in the cave not far from the opening.


----------



## Deolok

EAD063 said:


> Well why the heck didn't you say so!!!!! :}   One I want to see, I originally saw on the television. I was watching "Wild Boys" and they were in Africa, and there was what they called a "Copper Emperor Scorpion". Look like a regular one except it was a rusty brown color. It was pretty large so I don't think it was just a sub-adult emperor, plus they were with a native African and he even pointed it out as a "Copper Emperor". Stupidly one of the shows hosts pressed on his head a tad so it would sting him, it's the third time he's done that with a scorpion, once was some sort of hetermetrus and another was actually in a cave but the natives said it was an emperor, there was actually a ton of them all grouped together on a ledge in the cave not far from the opening.




Bet it was a Cav. Imperator. Copper or Red Clawed. Oh and I believe Dictators range to about 11 inches.... In other words, it's full adult form belittles all other species. (I believe, I will recheck my sources, but I am sure that is correct size).


----------



## pandinus

Deolok said:


> Bet it was a Cav. Imperator. Copper or Red Clawed. Oh and I believe Dictators range to about 11 inches.... In other words, it's full adult form belittles all other species. (I believe, I will recheck my sources, but I am sure that is correct size).


i would like to see your source on P dictator's size. can you please cite it for me?


----------



## Deolok

I found the information upon the begining of this thread.

I came across this site, unfortunatley I do not speak the tongue.

www.herppi.net/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=1...

Still trying to locate the information about the P.Dictator. It was a CITES site I think... Or something pertaining to a lot information based on CITES.

Heres a post from the venomlist. 

http://venomlist.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=5397

I contacted the poster already about his P. Dictator.


----------



## Bigboy

Deolok said:


> And why wouldn't African government ever go unitary? To be honest I am not even sure what the current government their is right now. I know its not a democracy  , is it a form of dictatorship?


Africa is a continent made up of many many different countries.  They are not all going to change over to one form of government by some strange sequence of events.  Which country is not a democracy?  You are generalizing and grouping many nations into one fictitious entity.


----------



## pandinus

that thread is about a cavimanus, they just made mention of a dictator


----------



## KingBaboon85

*p. imperator*

i have three p. imperator and one of them always leans against the edge of his water dish i don't get why is it always him i feel like he's constantly thirsty and the other two are not


----------



## Mr. Mordax

I welcome you with open pedipalps to Arachnoboards, but this thread is about _Pandinus dictator._  Feel free to search through the scorpion threads, though, or make a new post asking about your emp.


----------



## orkimedies

if this scorpion were a woman, i would make love to it all day and every night


----------



## pandinus

i guess i just don't see what the big deal is, but if this helps at all:
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=23607&highlight=blue+emperor


John


----------



## Deolok

Heh funny how someone just tried to throw in a random question like that. Oh and I apologize about making that generalization. I know that Africa is made up of many different countries :}  ... I guess I was pertaining to the area where P. Dictators are located (Congo and so on).


----------



## P.jasonius

orkimedies said:


> if this scorpion were a woman, i would make love to it all day and every night


you mean like this:


----------



## pandinus




----------



## maxident213

That pic is something else......   

Arachnophilia......


----------



## Thaedion

only one thing to say here.... pixelate, pixelate....  My eyes, my eyes   

LOL, there is one with a Tarantula also. *HERE PG13*


----------



## maxident213

HA! That pic with the girl & the T is the greatest thing I've ever seen. 

_Very_ William Burroughs. :worship:


----------



## twirl and kill

i wish i had that big toy scorpion that dude is ******* ,i would hang it on a wall in my house


----------



## Galapoheros

Ha, I just noticed it's an AIDS ad.  Pretty clever, but doesn't look like it's sending the intended message to to us here in the scorp section of the AB .  Maybe it would if that scorp was a can of insect spray.


----------



## Deolok

Thats a frigin sweet pic...But...It is an aids ad... Kinda a good laughif you own`m.


----------



## Vermis

Gah!  That's just wrong...

And cue a bunch of people asking 'will my scorpion/tarantula give me AIDS?'


----------



## maxident213

Vermis said:


> And cue a bunch of people asking 'will my scorpion/tarantula give me AIDS?'


Only if they don't use protection.   And take care not to bed down with spiders & scorps known to be promiscuous, or heavy I.V. drug users.  Remember, when you make the decision to have sex with that giant spider, you're also having sex with everyone that giant spider has had sex with.


----------



## Mr. Mordax

Amusing as this aside has been, could we return to the _P. dictator_?


----------



## pandinus

just to get the ball rolling on the dictator again, i've got to ask, what's the appeal? Justify the recent craze over this particular scorpion? Is it just a general matter of taste, or is there something in particular that attracts all of you to this scorpion? I'm not trying to incite or judge, just trying to understand this sub-cultural craze.

John


----------



## Mr. Mordax

If it really does look like a tank next to the emperor, then there's the "big beefy scorpion" appeal.


----------



## P.jasonius

maxident213 said:


> That pic is something else......
> 
> Arachnophilia......


It's called inter-species erotica...


----------



## Brian S

pandinus said:


> just to get the ball rolling on the dictator again, i've got to ask, what's the appeal? Justify the recent craze over this particular scorpion? Is it just a general matter of taste, or is there something in particular that attracts all of you to this scorpion? I'm not trying to incite or judge, just trying to understand this sub-cultural craze.
> 
> John


Im with you John. I guess its what ever floats your boat but after keeping Buthids, it will make you throw rocks at Pandinus spp. Buthids are alot more fun even if they are smaller


----------



## Deolok

Brian S said:


> Im with you John. I guess its what ever floats your boat but after keeping Buthids, it will make you throw rocks at Pandinus spp. Buthids are alot more fun even if they are smaller


But Brian, have you ever owned a P. Dictator? No one is really sure of their captive behavior... I think it's because of the fact that not TO MANY people own them and no much about them that makes them most appealing. P. Dictators also dwarf emperors not to mention they are a blue pandinius spp.


----------



## Brian S

Deolok said:


> But Brian, have you ever owned a P. Dictator? No one is really sure of their captive behavior... I think it's because of the fact that not TO MANY people own them and no much about them that makes them most appealing. P. Dictators also dwarf emperors not to mention they are a blue pandinius spp.


Nope but from my observations with other Pandinus spp they just arent in the same league as say Parabuthus, Centruroides or Tityus. While yes I would take a pair to breed if I had a chance, I would still think the same thing about them. Dwarfing P imp or not, they are still just a boring Pandinus sp to me. If you would ever keep something different you would know where I'm coming from.

On a side note, I would certainly jump at the chance to get Heterometrus swammerdami. Now THATS a big bad scorpion!!! Heteros are a bit more exciting than Pandinus in my opinion however we all know what opinions remind us of lol


----------



## skinheaddave

I'm going to have to disagree with you here Brian.  I've kept a lot of different scorpions over the years and I've really decided that for me, nothing beats those genera that used to be encompased by Liochelidae (Ischnuridae if you want to go back further).  These fall under what many people consider "boring," but it is not from lack of experience with buthids that I've come to this point.

Cheers,
Dave


----------



## Brian S

Yeah I know Dave. I wont hold it against you though. I keep hoping you will see the light someday LOLOL  

On a serious note, I have never kept any of those so I cant really say yay or nay about them.


----------



## skinheaddave

Brian,

I wouldn't hold out for that one.  If a buthid makes me see lights, it probably means I've ended up on the wrong end of one.  

To tell you the truth, I'm not keeping many scorpions myself these days.  A dozen, maybe dozen-and-a-half species.  Less than 100 specimens, I would think -- well, maybe just over.

Cheers,
Dave


----------



## Brian S

LOL Dave, I'm just messing with ya 

I guess you have been quite busy these days? Still around 100 scorpions isnt a small collection by any means.

Just a question for you before I stop hijacking, Have you been able to breed any of your Liochelidae? I have wondered if they are as prolific as some Buthids.


----------



## skinheaddave

They are breedable -- if you can get multiple specimens of the same species.  I've bred a couple species of Opisthacanthus and am currently working with some Hadogenes and Iomachus as well.  That being said, they are nothing like buthids, in that they have long gestation periods, few young and long maturation rates.  This is part of the appeal, though.  With many buthids, you have a few years to breed them or you will end up re-aquiring specimens.  With some of these species you may have a decade or more with mature specimens.

Cheers,
Dave


----------



## Mr. Mordax

Just a quick note here, I have one Buthid.  She's really fun and full of . . . _something_ . . . but I still have a soft spot for my big ol' emps.  They can be a lot of fun too.  So I for one am interested to see something as unknown and large as a dictator up-close and personal.


----------



## pandinus

i dont know where this stuff about P. dictator being bigger and dwarfing P. imperator is coming from, and if i am wrong, please correct me. But Imperator is larger than dictator, last i checked, P. imperator still holds the world record for the largest scorpion. I cant recall if H. swammerdami ever officially broke the record, but what i can say is that dictators do not dwarf emps.


John


----------



## Brian S

pandinus said:


> i dont know where this stuff about P. dictator being bigger and dwarfing P. imperator is coming from, and if i am wrong, please correct me. But Imperator is larger than dictator, last i checked, P. imperator still holds the world record for the largest scorpion. I cant recall if H. swammerdami ever officially broke the record, but what i can say is that dictators do not dwarf emps.
> 
> 
> John


John, I wish we could acquire about 4 or 5 breeding pairs of these. We could make a little dough selling to these folks LOL


----------



## pandinus

Brian S said:


> John, I wish we could acquire about 4 or 5 breeding pairs of these. We could make a little dough selling to these folks LOL


you read my mind. Hey, we got the tityus right? who says we cant.  

John


----------



## Vermis

Brian S said:


> We could make a little dough selling to these folks LOL


I like to think I'm usually pretty calm on web forums, refraining from flaming, jumping into arguments, sweating small stuff, etc.  But something about your words has flipped a switch.  Let's see if I can put across my view without resorting to four-letter words.

'These folks'...  Do you realise how incredibly arrogant and condescending you sound, snorting and guffawing with your little buthid clique?  And for poor reasons?  I'd guess the best part of my outrage is sheer unpleasant surprise that I could see this kind of - snobbery, for want of a better term - on a forum where most should recognise the kind of ostracism, however subtle, that comes with the hobby.  We don't need it within the hobby.
I don't know _P. dictator_ from Adam.  I don't know if it's blue or huge or hollow with a creamy caramel centre.  It's not?  I'll take your word for it, but so what?  I've only recently read through this topic and it's been hugely entertaining if nothing else.  It's also made me interested in _P. dictator_, and I think I'll keep an eye out if a scant few do make it into the trade.

You won't, you say?  It's just another boring Pandinus?  That's your opinion; one that a lot of people don't share, and that's fine.  But you've made it perfectly clear already.  Do you have to keep reiterating it and changing the topic to buthids to the point that you feel you have to _sneer_ at the vast bulk of the thread, and in the face of its posters and readers?


----------



## fusion121

I have a collection mostly composed of buthids, but I'm the first to admit they are the most boring family of scorpions. They have the least interesting behaviours of all the scorpion families, are the shortest lived etc. I think their popularity mostly derives from the fact they are easy to keep and are venomous, which isn't a great reason to keep anything


----------



## skinheaddave

Vermis said:


> Do you have to keep reiterating it and changing the topic to buthids to the point that you feel you have to _sneer_ at the vast bulk of the thread, and in the face of its posters and readers?


I would agree with you on this if I didn't know Brian.  Sometimes web communication is hard on this front, but I know that as he's typing this stuff, Brian has a big goofy (yes, I said goofy Brian ... deal with it) smile on his face.  

Plus, there is an underlying point here.  I see a lot of interest and talk about P.dictator, but I have yet to see any attempts to garner more real information.  Instead, I see hearsay stacked on speculation.  It reminds me of the troglobytic scorpion described by Damsel and Kefirov.  A fantastic beast -- large, very attractive, posessing many interesting morphological modifications.  Also, 100% completely made-up.

Cheers,
Dave


----------



## skinheaddave

fusion121 said:


> I think their popularity mostly derives from the fact they are easy to keep and are venomous, which isn't a great reason to keep anything


Also, their population densities and propensity for wandering from their burrows (if they even have burrows).  Due to their reproductive strategy, field collectors have a relatively easy time of it and this is reflected in what comes out of these countries.  

Anyhow, they do have their uses.  Being relatively primitive, they make good controls for a lot of behavioural studies.  

Cheers,
Dave


----------



## Brian S

Vermis said:


> I like to think I'm usually pretty calm on web forums, refraining from flaming, jumping into arguments, sweating small stuff, etc.  But something about your words has flipped a switch.  Let's see if I can put across my view without resorting to four-letter words.
> 
> 'These folks'...  Do you realise how incredibly arrogant and condescending you sound, snorting and guffawing with your little buthid clique?  And for poor reasons?  I'd guess the best part of my outrage is sheer unpleasant surprise that I could see this kind of - snobbery, for want of a better term - on a forum where most should recognise the kind of ostracism, however subtle, that comes with the hobby.  We don't need it within the hobby.
> I don't know _P. dictator_ from Adam.  I don't know if it's blue or huge or hollow with a creamy caramel centre.  It's not?  I'll take your word for it, but so what?  I've only recently read through this topic and it's been hugely entertaining if nothing else.  It's also made me interested in _P. dictator_, and I think I'll keep an eye out if a scant few do make it into the trade.
> 
> You won't, you say?  It's just another boring Pandinus?  That's your opinion; one that a lot of people don't share, and that's fine.  But you've made it perfectly clear already.  Do you have to keep reiterating it and changing the topic to buthids to the point that you feel you have to _sneer_ at the vast bulk of the thread, and in the face of its posters and readers?


Man, You have me all wrong . I'm being silly and everyone that knows me will tell you I am. I enjoy messing with people and I never mean no harm by it. When I am engaged in idle chatter like that, take what I say with a grain of salt.



skinheaddave said:


> I would agree with you on this if I didn't know Brian.  Sometimes web communication is hard on this front, but I know that as he's typing this stuff, Brian has a big goofy (yes, I said goofy Brian ... deal with it) smile on his face.


See, Dave knows how I am. I am goofy when I want to be especially in a thread like this;P . Thank you Dave for helping me out. Yeah I like being goofy and Vermis, please for the love of God relax.


----------



## Thaedion

Brian, I've been keeping a read on this thread as it is very entertaining. I'm a Pandinus type of person with a little Heterometrus in for good measure. I took NO offense to your comment.

Dave, since I began reading this thread by "Deolock" way back, I've been actively seeking knowledge and even querying importers, (importers that require you to own CITES import license's) to the where abouts of this Pandinus, it just isn't available and info on it is much harder to come by, (PS I try to keep my posts 98% fluff free)

CITES doesn't allow them to exported, and of what I read only a couple of hundred have been exported alive over a course of a few years, compared to the 10's of thousands of P imps. which are also CITES protected.

All in all I believe it is an American trait (commercialism and all) to want what we don't have and want even more something tha's not allowed, I think that's why this thread is so interesting.

Just my spin, Thaedion


----------



## pandinus

just to help all of this misunderstanding blow over, i'll see if i can help get you guys a little bit of a fix. It's not a dictator, but i think that it satisfies a lot of the fields that make the dictator so desirable to the community. It is a relatively large, dull blue colored scorpion that, while not as rare as some other species, is not a common offering in the trade. Also, from personal accounts, i have heard it is pretty fiesty. I am of course reffering to heterometrus cyaneus.

Pic 1
thread with pics


Also, here is a link that might have already been posted, but if not, it may be another step closer for you dictator lovers out there
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=64747&highlight=cyaneus


John


----------



## Mr. Mordax

Oooh!  *grabby hands*

I wonder how unique the scorpions will be at the Unique Animal Expo next weekend . . .


----------



## Urizen

pandinus said:


> i dont know where this stuff about P. dictator being bigger and dwarfing P. imperator is coming from, and if i am wrong, please correct me. But Imperator is larger than dictator, last i checked, P. imperator still holds the world record for the largest scorpion. I cant recall if H. swammerdami ever officially broke the record, but what i can say is that dictators do not dwarf emps.
> John


By largest, what do you mean? How is largest mesured? As I know H.Troglodytes is the longest scorpion.


----------



## EAD063

I still think we should email the discovery channel LOL.

Lourenço has done nothing involving dictator?  I know he's a busy man but I wish he could have input on this.  Someone has to know something.


----------



## skinheaddave

Thaedion said:


> Dave, since I began reading this thread by "Deolock" way back, I've been actively seeking knowledge and even querying importers,


That's not the type of knowledge I was talking about.  There is an original description published, as well as several records of specimens in collections.  Size, appearance, habitat and distribution are waiting there for someone to dig them up.



EAD063 said:


> Someone has to know something.


What is it that people want to know?  

Cheers,
Dave


----------



## fusion121

*Pandinus dictator:*

Here is a large male specimen of P. dictator from the Congo:






From the specimens I’ve seen P. dictator is nearly identical in size to specimens of P. imperator, with the maximum size of each being extremely large. The biggest get to 20+ cm in length. The two species are separated by the number of trichobothria  on the ventral surface of the tibia (22 in dictator, >30 in imperator). Both species are black and shiny, not any more blue then any other scorpion species. Its unlikely they'd be anymore interesting to keep then P. imperator, they may already be the hobby but your average hobbiest would not be able to separate them from P. imperator. 

Here are the distributions of the 2 species:





(from: Lourecno W. R. & Cloudsley-Thompson J. L., 1996, Recognition and distribution of the scorpions of the genus Pandinus accorded protection by the Washington convention, Biogeographica, 72(3), 133-143)


----------



## quiz

Thanks for the picture Oliver.  I guess it's not blue after-all:?  because the pic above is green  .


----------



## EAD063

Mainly, I want to know why information is so scarce.  There are many more rare scorps that we know tons about (mainly because some excellent contributors), I just don't understand what this mystery is.  I did email discovery about it but the chances of finding a qualified and informed individual obviously slim, but I'm hoping mostly just to see more pictures.

Good post Oliver.. I knew I saw those pictures somwhere before, didn't remember where.


----------



## skinheaddave

EAD063 said:


> Mainly, I want to know why information is so scarce.  There are many more rare scorps that we know tons about


Example?

Cheers,
Dave


----------



## EAD063

skinheaddave said:


> Example?
> 
> Cheers,
> Dave


To the best of my knowledge a lot of the tityus species are fairly new but becomming widley distributed correct?  I recall seeing old threads from last year and 2 years ago where some of the members who now have many tityus sp. didn't have any at all.  I'm just curious and wish I could see more.  Not on a die hard hunt for info though.


I didn't see olivers citation to the above.. I'm now satisfied.


----------



## fusion121

EAD063 said:


> Good post Oliver.. I knew I saw those pictures somwhere before, didn't remember where.


Unlikely since I just took that picture a few days ago.

The genus Pandinus has not been looked at a great deal, but P. dictator is no more or less particularly well known then any other scorpion species.


----------



## pandinus

fusion121 said:


> Unlikely since I just took that picture a few days ago.
> 
> The genus Pandinus has not been looked at a great deal, but P. dictator is no more or less particularly well known then any other scorpion species.


is it just the angle the pic was taken at or does that thing really have a gigantic vesicle?


----------



## skinheaddave

EAD063 said:


> To the best of my knowledge a lot of the tityus species are fairly new but becomming widley distributed correct?


Once again, you're blending the lines between what we have and what we know.  We know a lot about S.mesaensis.  Tonnes of research has been done on it.  Yet it is still relatively rare in collections.  By contrast, Heterometrus is far from resolved taxonomically and there is only a little known in other fields -- yet they are all over the place.

As for the citation, there are actually dozens of documents out there that relate to P.dictator in some way.  There are only a few that are readily accessable, though.  

Cheers,
Dave


----------



## bengerno

Hi guys,


I just wanna say If anybody can travel to Africa and has everything to collect scorps (papers etc.), he/she need some luck too!
My friend was in an expedition in Gambia a few years ago for 2-3 months, and he found only 2 Pandinus sp. (probably one was gambiensis), one of them was killed by ants. He didn't find any tarantulas! His reason to be there was collecting mainly true spiders.
Traveling in Africa:
When they wanted to came home, they had the plane tickets, but that day when they had to leave, had no seat on the plane because It was full (he had valid tickets!!). They had to wait 1-2 weeks to be able to leave with another plane, but this time they went to the airport with a biggy man's bodyguards to take their seat!  

PS: He almost died due to malaria (3 weeks in hospital)! 

So be careful and good luck for collecting there!


----------



## Mr. Mordax

Eeek!  Maybe I'll wait until I have that bioengineering degree under my belt so I can _hire_ someone to go to west Africa for me.

Seeing that _P. dictator_ earlier on this page made me wipe the drool off my keyboard.


----------



## EAD063

I was referring more to the distribution chart than the true picture.


----------



## Deolok

So what perhaps makes the P. Dictator blue in some of the other pictures we have seen? Oh and bengerno, I might have to say your friend got the better end of the stick by just getting malaria (oh my goodness, am I actually saying this?) because if you read the begining of this thread you'll find a lot more interesting topics and information about Corrupt African Goverments <-- There is an "S!" It is plural.

Oh and is it normal for a scorpion to take on that type of posture? It looks like an odd defensive stance, is it still alive?


----------



## Brian S

Deolok said:


> So what perhaps makes the P. Dictator blue in some of the other pictures we have seen?


It is the lighting. I have seen P imp and Heterometrus look blue as well in some pics



> Oh and is it normal for a scorpion to take on that type of posture? It looks like an odd defensive stance, is it still alive?


Looks like a preserved specimen. Note the blue gloves


----------



## fusion121

The blue colour comes from the fact its taken in sunlight which has has a large UV component, which causes fluorescence which results in a blue colouration. 

That specimen is a preserved one from the British museum of natural history collections


----------



## skinheaddave

It will also have been taken with a digital camera.  The CCDs tend to be quite sensitive to blue, resulting in bluer pictures.  Consider all the stunning pictures of H.lividum vs. their usual appearance.

Cheers,
Dave


----------



## Deolok

I see... Well judging by the picture the P. Dictator and P. Imperator are very relative in size (though I would like to believe that the Dictator dwarfs the Imperator). Buts lets take a look at some qualities that make the P. Dictator an interesting specimen.


Overall Size
Location of Habitat
Behavior?
Life Span
Mating Rituals

Some of these things are what might make the Dictator substantial among the rest of the Pandinius. But at an estimate (and anyone else's estimate would be appreciated), but how much do you think these Scorpions are worth in the pet trade? I would like to start them at $300. Is that reasonable or extremly blown out of proportion? I say that much because someone obviously must have risked their lives to retrieve one/some...


----------



## Gigas

For all of those I would say they would be the same as P. imperator. and i'm not sure about the demand and price, i can't comment.


----------



## Deolok

Well shoot, even habitat even? I guess if you could find dictators you'd find imperators. Anyways, sudden thought of idea, who gave the Dictator its name?

With some further research (and hoping that I read it correctly) 

http://www.internationalwildlifelaw.org/singapore1.pdf

On page 28, the Dictator is listed, along with the Imperator, which is odd. 

The Dictator is listed in the trade, but is considered an endangered species. Odd enough though someone can be fined, but not exceeding $2000, for retrieving one without a license. Seems a bit harsh, no?


----------



## pandinus

Deolok said:


> Well shoot, even habitat even? I guess if you could find dictators you'd find imperators. Anyways, sudden thought of idea, who gave the Dictator its name?
> 
> With some further research (and hoping that I read it correctly)
> 
> http://www.internationalwildlifelaw.org/singapore1.pdf
> 
> On page 28, the Dictator is listed, along with the Imperator, which is odd.
> 
> The Dictator is listed in the trade, but is considered an endangered species. Odd enough though someone can be fined, but not exceeding $2000, for retrieving one without a license. Seems a bit harsh, no?


P. imperator is considered endangered (if by endangered you mean it is on the CITES II list), but it is in the trade as well. The habitat you find dictators in is almost identical to where you find imperators, the difference is the range. To be honest, i might pay as much for a dictator as i would a P. cavimanus. The only allure of the dictator would be the novelty of having it, other than that 90% of us probably couldnt tell the difference between them and an imperator, as the only true difference is a slight difference in trichobothria.
The good news is that if you dont feel ready for the more hot spp, or you just dont share the fascination of them with people like me and brian, there are many other scorpions that are unusual in their behavior and size and color. here is just a small sampling of some of these scorpions from the scorpionidae family:

-Heterometrus cyaneus: as mentioned before, this spp. is only slightly smaller than an emp, is very active/aggressive, and gives off a nice faint blue sheen. 
pic

-Opistothalmus spp: these scorpions go by the names of hissing, tri-color, and burrowing scorpions. They are large, colorful, feisty, and typically available in the hobby.
O. carinatus O. glabifrons

-Diplocentrus whitei: a rare sp. from the southwestern US. Diplocentrus is the only genus of Scorpionidae found in the US. a larger scorpion by US standards, it looks like a shrunken emperor. Secretive but active little guys that have been described by some as having a faint purple sheen in the right light.
pic

-Heterometrus longimanus: another asian heterometrus sp. This species is one of the more unusual of the common heterometruses. Like all of them, it grows large, and is very active/agressive. The features of this scorpion that make it appealing are the blue-black sheen it gives off, as well as the incredibly long pedipalps that are present in the mature males of this species which, in some instances can be as long as the entire mesosoma. 
pic

-Scorpio maurus: another of the slightly smaller scorpionids, this sp. has several subspecies all of which vary greatly in color. The most common in the states is S. m. palmatus. The scorpion is very colorful as well as agressive. The availability of this scorpion varies, being easy to find sometimes, almost impossible at other times. They are a highly coveted and exemplerary captive and make great specimens because of their active lifestyle. 
S. maurus S. m. palmatus

-Pandinus cavimanus: A slightly smaller emperor with double the attitude. The colors of this spp. can vary greatly but they are usually brown with red claws. The males of this sp. have dents in their claws that aid in holding the female's claws during courtship. 
pic

So you see, even if the dictator turned out to be a bust, that doesnt mean that this family doesnt hold tons of other fascinating spp. many of which are comonly available in the trade. and remember, just because a scorpion is common doesnt mean it isnt fun!

John


----------



## P.jasonius

There are a couple of papers, which I don't have access to, that may be of help in this topic.  If anyone has access to these, and would like to share, please pm me.


Systematics and biogeography of the family Scorpionidae (Chelicerata : Scorpiones), with a discussion on phylogenetic methods
authors: Lorenzo Prendini, Timothy M. Crowe and Ward C. Wheeler 
journal: Invertebrate Systematics vol 17


Recognition and distribution of the scorpions of the genus Pandinus Thorell, 1876 accorded protection by the Washington convention 
authors:  LOURENCO W. R., CLOUDSLEY-THOMPSON J. L. 
journal:  Biogeographica vol 72

[edit]Someone was kind enough to send me a copy of "Systematics..."; Thanks.

and sorry about the pics that got the thread off topic, sometimes I just can't help myself...


----------



## skinheaddave

Neither of these documents is going to be of much use.  The former deals primarily with taxonomy at the genus level and contains none of the things people are looking for.  The later paper provided the image that was posted by Oliver a few posts back.  

Cheers,
Dave


----------



## skinheaddave

> Anyways, sudden thought of idea, who gave the Dictator its name?


The name that appears after the species name is the person who described it.  Sometimes this is even followed by the date of the paper in which it was described.  In other words, your question can be answered by looking at any paper in a peer-reviewed journal that mentiones the species.  Or, you could go to the scorpion files and find out.  Or just put "Pandinus dictator" in google and find out.  Pocock.  1888.

A child marvels at the moon.  He has heard that it is a big piece of cheese.  His father explains that it is a satelite circling the earth.  He draws a diagram to explain its rotation.  Then he cuts out paper and, using a desk lamp, illustrates how shadowing creates the lunar cycle.  Better yet, he is an educated man.  He explains the history of lunar exploration and sumarizes all the data we have to date.  He discusses composition, theories of origin, the effects of the moon on earth, the role of the moon in human culture throughout the ages.  

"Wow," says the child, "we sure don't know much about the moon.  Must be a big piece of cheese."  Needless to say, the kid is not on his way to becoming an astronaut.

I don't know what is more disturbing.  This whole thread or the fact that nobody who comes across it in a later search is going to read past the first page.

Cheers,
Dave


----------



## Deolok

skinheaddave said:


> The name that appears after the species name is the person who described it.  Sometimes this is even followed by the date of the paper in which it was described.  In other words, your question can be answered by looking at any paper in a peer-reviewed journal that mentiones the species.  Or, you could go to the scorpion files and find out.  Or just put "Pandinus dictator" in google and find out.  Pocock.  1888.
> 
> A child marvels at the moon.  He has heard that it is a big piece of cheese.  His father explains that it is a satelite circling the earth.  He draws a diagram to explain its rotation.  Then he cuts out paper and, using a desk lamp, illustrates how shadowing creates the lunar cycle.  Better yet, he is an educated man.  He explains the history of lunar exploration and sumarizes all the data we have to date.  He discusses composition, theories of origin, the effects of the moon on earth, the role of the moon in human culture throughout the ages.
> 
> "Wow," says the child, "we sure don't know much about the moon.  Must be a big piece of cheese."  Needless to say, the kid is not on his way to becoming an astronaut.
> 
> I don't know what is more disturbing.  This whole thread or the fact that nobody who comes across it in a later search is going to read past the first page.
> 
> Cheers,
> Dave




Well thats a tad bit insulting... I posted this thread awhile back in hopes of finding more information about these "rare" scorpions and no that I have not gotten information, but I also have taken on plenty of "stupid ideas" and "This scorpion is nothing." Everyone on this forum, including myself, make big deals about identifing species and what makes them different from one another, yet when it comes to the Dictator it seems like people really dont care about it or its characteristics... Kinda disappointing ya'know? 

And I have herd plenty of information skinheaddave, and I have taken all of it in very well. It does not change the fact that something about the P. Dictator is incredibly interesting...


----------



## Thaedion

Deolok said:


> skinheaddave said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Wow," says the child, "we sure don't know much about the moon. Must be a big piece of cheese." Needless to say, the kid is not on his way to becoming an astronaut.
> 
> I don't know what is more disturbing. This whole thread or the fact that nobody who comes across it in a later search is going to read past the first page.
> 
> Cheers,
> Dave"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well thats a tad bit insulting...
Click to expand...

I thought so too, if you go back through this thread you'll see some lighthearted banter and some fluff by all of us, but out of Dave's 13 posts the first reply he says (1) "you gotta know what you are doing to collect these" then he (2) comments on a pictures origins, then (3-7) 5 off topic posts about buthids, then (8-10) tear downs of a couple of 'posters', then (11) comments on a picture, then (12) rip on someones genuine attempt to locate some papers, and then (13) blasts everyone here with his last comment.

Sure I agree anyone with _lack of interest_ searching for the P dictator info, coming across this thread will stop early on due to fluff, but my interest kept me going through the first pages and to the end. I then posted some info on this subject as did others who made it through the fluff. All in all the one who did not post any useful info on the subject is 'Dave' interesting...

Thaedion


----------



## Crono

I would say pointing out dead ends before anyone goes to the time and trouble of reaching them is very useful. 
But then again that's the guy with 5 term papers to write speaking


----------



## skinheaddave

Thaedion said:


> (12) rip on someones genuine attempt to locate some papers


You really consider this a "rip?"  Telling someone that neither document is going to be of much use?  I've read both -- neither has a speck of information that has not already been sumarized in this thread.  I've gotten my hands on many papers in my time and the most frustrating thing has always been going to some effort to get a paper that doesn't have the info I wanted.  I understand how my last post in this thread can be seen as insulting -- it was meant to be -- but if you consider the post in question here to be insulting then you have some serious issues in your quest for knowledge.  



> (13) blasts everyone here with his last comment.


Not everyone.  Just a select group of people here and on every other message board on the 'net.



> All in all the one who did not post any useful info on the subject is 'Dave' interesting...


Yeah.  Very interesting.  Do you know why?  Because Dave does not want to contribute speculation.  Dave does not care enough to spend the money and time to get the few papers he doesn't already have.  Dave does not want to hastle his personal contacts or the two people who have been shown through this thread to have personal contact with P.dictator in the wild.  I do not want to hastle them over some half-baked fantasy of getting a bug for the sake of the money.  Granted, I should have done what Oliver did and post the range map sooner.  I was sort of hoping that someone asking the questions might be enterprising enough to garner that information themselves.  Other than that, I don't see why I, or anyone else, should be required to spoon-feed an audience without enough genuine interest in the matter to even do a bit of background reading.

Cheers,
Dave


----------



## skinheaddave

Deolok said:


> identifing species and what makes them different from one another, yet when it comes to the Dictator it seems like people really dont care about it or its characteristics... Kinda disappointing ya'know?


You've been given distribution and physical characters used to distinguish it from its closest relatives.

You've been given at least two potential contacts for further information.

You've been given some citations and even spoon-fed information from one of them. 

You've been given a hint of what would be involved to go into the field.  You've been given enough leads that you can follow up on preserved specimens as well.

Yet all we hear is that this is a mysterious scorpion and inquiries as to how much $$$ can be made.  

Does anyone see how this is frustrating to me?

Cheers,
Dave


----------



## P.jasonius

skinheaddave said:


> Neither of these documents is going to be of much use.  The former deals primarily with taxonomy at the genus level and contains none of the things people are looking for.  The later paper provided the image that was posted by Oliver a few posts back.
> 
> Cheers,
> Dave


Just a follow up; I didn't find this to be a "rip" at all.  Dave has helped me find and acquire papers in the past and it is appreciated.  If he tells me that it isn't worth reading, it probably isn't.  I wished to find some publications containing a Pandinus ID key, and thought that was it.  
Oh, and if you expect a skinhead not to insult from time to time, friend, acquaintance, or otherwise, then you've never known a skin.
Oi!


----------



## skinheaddave

P.jasonius said:


> If he tells me that it isn't worth reading, it probably isn't.


Just to clarify, the Prendini paper is definitely worth reading.  It has nothing of real importance regarding P.dictator, but for what it is -- a discussion of genus -- it is well worth a read.  

Incidentally,  the paper in question  can be found at http://scorpion.amnh.org/index.html along with a whole bunch of other good ones.

Cheers,
Dave


----------



## P.jasonius

Yes, that's what I wanted it for.  Thanks for the link.


----------



## Deolok

Well I only ask the money question because it is always in the back of someones mind. I can honestly say that I really just want this scorpion for the sake of having it and to observe it. Deep in the back of my mind I wonder to myself very much as to what makes it so amazing. Possibly it is my own speculation that makes it so amazing, but hell! Who knows? According to Dave I must be rather ignorant. Anyways....

I search for new infromation about twice a week on the P. Dictator just because I am curious, I know some of you may view that as stupid or as pointless, but it is no different than looking up information for other scorpions. Why do people visit this forum? To find infromation about scorpions, and it just so happens I am trying to find information about the Dictator. I can't do it alone, I am to young, not smart enough, don't have the financial support, nor the education to go out and start exploring for them. I thank you for all your information that you have given to me... 

I would still like to continue this thread, but if all you are going to do is cut down the theory and thoughts behind locating, breeding, information, and/or etc. of the Dictator please dont bother saying it...Chances are...We have already herd it.


----------



## skinheaddave

Deolok said:


> I search for new infromation about twice a week on the P. Dictator just because I am curious, I know some of you may view that as stupid or as pointless,


The search itself isn't stupid or pointless, per se, but the way you are approaching it is.  To expect the answers to just pop up online is about as ridiculous as expecting people to become as obsessed as you and spoon-feed you the information.  You may not be able to do it alone, but you are definitely going to have to put in some effort of your own -- and not just effort in terms of hours spent, but directed effort in terms of generating a plan to actually acquire the information and then pursuing that plan.  The first step in the plan ought to be writing down everything you KNOW to date.  And I don't mean things that you or others have speculated about, but hard facts with supporting evidence.  



> I am to young,


This is only a hinderance if you are too impatient as well.  I see this as a positive for you.  You are naive, to be sure, but you have plenty of time to change that.  Notice that the problem with the kid in the moon analogy was not that he was ignorant of the moon, but that he made no genuine effort to change that.  Oh, and wishing isn't genuine effort.



> not smart enough,


Nonsense.  I know plenty of people of average intelligence who worked hard and got somewhere truly fantastic.  There are plenty of people who I've seen refered to as "geniuses" that have learning disabilities or other such things but have still risen to prominent roles in the arachnological community.  Admittedly, I've met some truly dim people in my life.  For the most part, however, the "not smart enough" thing is just a cop-out.



> don't have the financial support,


You're in high school.  Once again, it is a matter of patience.  Not having any money in high school is pretty standard.



> nor the education


You're in high school.  By definition you are relatively uneducated.  That being said, you have resources available to you and a perfect excuse to educate yourself. 

My advice to you is to table the P.dictator thing for now, but to keep it in the back of your mind.  Instead, try to build up the background you will need to properly interpret the results of a later search.  I could give you a list of citations out of the Catalogue of Scorpions of the World, but it has become apparent that it wouldn't do you a bit of good right now.  You need to pick up some background knowledge.  Fortunately, due to its generalized nature, a lot of this stuff can be picked up online -- at least as an overview.  Wikipedia is actually a pretty neat resource.  I had a question the other day about viscosity and I ended up reading about superfluids.  You will need to know about taxonomy and classifications, citations etc. to eventually be able to navigate the papers.  You may also want to start reading journal articles you can find online.  The key here is that you will hit a LOT of terms and concepts you do not understand.  Every time you hit one, take the time to do some background research and really delve into the topic.  It may take you a month to read and re-read a single paper that way, but you will have learned a lot in that time.  

I think if you are genuinely interested in P.dictator for more than the money and whatnot, it is worth your while doing some background work.  I strongly suspect that doing that work will demystify a lot of things and you will come to see P.dictator as indistinct.  Who knows, though, you might hold onto whatever obsession you have now, in which case you will have a direction for study in a few years when you are ready for it.

Cheers,
Dave


----------



## Deolok

Well Dave you pull a 180 on me and turn into Mr Positive :} . Thanks for the input, I really appreciate it. When I said I am not smart enough, I simply meant I do not have a degree in any sort of field such entomology (SP) or anything. I know plenty about arachnids, but not enough for anyone to give me a job or send me on an expedition. Of course I have no money... I am in highschool. The thread has somewhat strayed from what I originally meant it for. 

I just wanted people to post their rumors, information, and/or ideas about the P. Dictator. In my own mind this will always be a legendary scorpion, but to others it will just be another not-to-common Pandinus spp. 

If you have ever watched on Discovery channel, "Expedition: Borneo," this somewhat relates to my idea for the search for the Pandinus Dictator. Anyways, lets just try and keep this thread alive and the flamming to a minimum.


----------



## HackoDis

The P.Imperator Will Pawn the Dictactor



Kidding

So what is the big difference between Imperator and Dictator ??


----------



## skinheaddave

Deolok said:


> Well Dave you pull a 180 on me and turn into Mr Positive :}


I didn't pull a 180 at all.  I'm still saying the exact same thing.  It is also still abundantly clear that you are quite happy to leave the moon as a piece of cheese.  At least nobody can say I didn't try.

Cheers,
Dave


----------



## P.jasonius

I think you should really take a second look at what Dave is trying to do for you here.  
You obviously have some motivation, or you wouldn't keep coming back to this thread.  If you don't educate yourself (note my words) all your efforts will equate to a thread that no one reads a few years from now.  
-A degree does not equal an education; what you learn while earning the degree is what constitutes an education.  
-Thinking you know plenty about arachnids is the wrong attitude.  Knowing how little you know and wanting to know more is a better way to be.
-There is a lot of free information out there, and much of what you don't have access to, someone on the boards does.  Just ask.
I hope you don't think I'm attacking you, guy, but you don't get smarter as you age (quite the opposite).  The more information you expose yourself to right now, the better off your brain will be.  Public school won't give you much to work with, so it's up to you.  You have your help and support group (for lack of a better term) right here.
[edit] End Tangent


----------



## Deolok

I do understand what Dave is saying... And let me see if I can word this correctly... I am NOT going to Africa to capture a RARE species of scorpion, however, I do believe that it is a very interesting specimen. I wanted to post a thread about and get some peoples' opinion on it and find more information about the scorpion. I do believe it would be an interesting expedition to go and venture out into the wilderness to retrieve a specimen and bring it back home. 

When people misread, or misunderstand what I am contributing to this thread they all jump to the conclusion that I am (lack of a better term) an idiot. I also know that I need to learn as much as possible now, rather than later, due to the fact that your brain is much more absorbent at my age. Information should "stick" better. 

I remember posting ideas on that it may be possible to have a camera crew much like Discovery come and do an expedition or episodes on locating the Dictator. Like I said I am interested in the species. I have found information about it, thanks to this forum. Shoot...What else to say? 

Dave, I guess you and I will never see eye to eye, because apparently neither of us can comprehend what the other is trying to say, which is fine by me. I just appreciate what you say on a different level, paticularly I take a lot of the things you have said so far on this forum to heart. And yes I hav felt like a bit of an idiot, being compared to a child after a piece of cheese, and knowing that is NOT at all the metaphor I was hopeing to have. Anyways, I return to this thread today to continue the information spanning the web about the Dictator, though unfortunatley after typing all this, I must leave. Yet another mistake on my part.

(no guilt intended)


----------



## Urizen

Jeeez, you guys argue more than acedemics! Just to push a point, Africa isn't that bad! I keep seeing posts on this board, "you can never see that species because it's in AFrica! and the devil and disease reside in Africa!" :evil: 

Granted it is rougher than some parts of the world, but sheesh it aint that bad!


----------



## Bayushi

i think the majority of the posts about Africa weren't the "disease and devil" type, but more along the lines that the area where P dictator is under political unrest....


----------



## Urizen

Bayushi said:


> i think the majority of the posts about Africa weren't the "disease and devil" type, but more along the lines that the area where P dictator is under political unrest....


I was probably being melodramatic


----------



## Deolok

Perhaps people don't take a long enough time to realize the good things about Africa. (I know I didn't). Maybe I was just a little hazed by the idea of a P. Dictator or something. I wonder why Dictators are only sighted in that area? I understand the Congo and all...


----------



## Bigboy

Deolok said:


> Perhaps people don't take a long enough time to realize the good things about Africa. (I know I didn't). Maybe I was just a little hazed by the idea of a P. Dictator or something. I wonder why Dictators are only sighted in that area? I understand the Congo and all...


I have not looked into it, because it doesn't tickle my fancy as it does yours.  But that is a wonderful question that winds its way into the idea of divergent evolution, nay not the idea of the fact of.  If the area it is located in is a sort of geographic island then you have your answer.  Also, is there more than just the Rick West photo of this species that people rave about?  A picture can be very misleading.


----------



## EAD063

Fusion posted one earlier in this thread... which looks nothing like the rick west photo, but I'm no one to judge.  Having his personal input rather than just a name to another picture I would tend to belive him unless it was proved otherwise.


----------



## Deolok

Yes the two photos share not to much in common. I am trying to decide/figure out if it is mainly a geographic reason why P. Dictators inhabit that area or if it's a completely different reason, perhaps they are "cotained," there? (stupid idea, more or less)


----------



## ftorres

*P dictator*

HEllo ALl,
Insects international had some dead specines for sale at the last Insect show in Los angeles back in MAy 07.
They were going for like 40 dollars or so.
I think Caccoserap (ANdrew) took some pics and posted them on the event section.

They were huge and really nice,too bad they were dead.
regards
ftorres.

http://www.insectsinternational.com/


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