# Has anyone heard of the cricket virus?



## lunashimmer (May 28, 2010)

I've had 3 crickets die on me from the last batch I bought at my LPS on Monday. I'm not sure if it's because of this virus. :?


Here's the article I found. Scary!!!

From: http://www.titag.org/newsletter/issue1.html


*Cricket Virus Wipes Out Growers in UK & Europe*
by Jon Coote

Cricket Growers in Europe and the UK have been seriously impacted by a species-specific parvovirus, presumed to be a densovirus. Commonly known in the UK as ‘cricket paralysis virus’ first appearance in the UK from mainland Europe was in early 2002. All five major commercial cricket growers in the UK were infected before the end of 2002. This virus specifically attacks only the Common Brown or House cricket (Acheta domesticus), previously the core species in European trade, and the only species in trade in the USA. 

In Europe, commercial growers regularly raise three alternative species of cricket, Banded cricket, also known as the Tropical House cricket (Gryllodes sigillatus), African Black Field cricket (Gryllus bimaculatus), and Silent Brown cricket, also known as Jamaican 
Field cricket (Gryllus similis), so the impact of loosing the Brown House cricket is not as serious as it would currently be in the USA.

Infected crickets die without any visible symptoms and at all stages of development, but death rates are heaviest at the pre-wing stage just before adult size. The effect is also cumulative. At first death rates are tolerable and many growers believe that they simply have a husbandry problem. Within as little as six weeks death rates become catastrophic and all viable commercial production is lost. Though a few adults may still survive, they are in too low numbers to support continued commercial production. 

There is no known treatment and, being a virus, probably none will be found. Prevention is the only viable solution at this time. Experiments are being conducted to try to establish the vectors of this virus. I’ve arranged for one UK grower to conduct an experiment to see if the Dermestes beetles (commonly called Fuzzy Bugs) that infest most growers’ colonies are primary vectors of this virus. Other UK growers are trying to determine if any individuals can be found that are resistant to this virus. Imported crickets from the USA have proved to be particularly susceptible. 

Where this virus came from is open to speculation, but it apparently first appeared in Germany, were commercial production of this species has now effectively ended. It may ultimately prove to have mutated from a similar virus that infects Wax Moth larvae (Galeria mellonella). These larvae are routinely used in research establishments to maintain a wide variety of insect viruses injected into them that researchers want to study. So this insect species is clearly especially adept at carrying insect viruses of many types and maintaining them in a viable form. It is possible that a mutation could have occurred in this way to ultimately infect Brown House crickets.

My position in both the UK and USA reptile industry, working with T-Rex Products, provides me with a unique opportunity to be able to talk candidly to both reptile breeders and insect growers, as our products complement theirs rather than compete. As a result I was able to call a meeting of all interested parties, including most of the largest US cricket growers, last August, at Wayne Hill’s Reptile Expo in Daytona Beach. Also present was one of the principal US reptile vets and a UK cricket grower, who was able to share his direct experiences with this virus. From that meeting I’ve continued an e-mail correspondence with the group to enable them to better understand this virus and what measures are likely to prevent it impacting on the US. 

I’ve been able to establish a likely protocol to clean up after an infection, if that ever occurs, and locate a UK based researcher who would be interested in studying this virus. This researcher is currently working on baculoviruses for insect pest control and is intrigued by our problem. Much of her work focuses on trying to elucidate the ecology of insect diseases (persistence, transmission, etc.) in addition to pest control, which is the sort of study that is required. No one anywhere currently works on insect parvovirus ecology and biology, which does mean that some basic biology needs to be done to start with. If it is a parvovirus, it is presumed to be a densovirus, one of which has been previously reported from the Brown House cricket in a single report in the 1970s, in Montpellier in France. This researcher considers that my idea that it might be passively dispersed by Dermestes beetles is intriguing and perhaps a good place to start, hence the experiment described above.

During my investigations into this subject I came upon another researcher who was raising pathogen-free crickets, i.e. free of bacteria, etc., in special isolator systems. This is a very costly operation producing perhaps the most expensive insects reared worldwide! It could however provide an opportunity to re-colonize with disease free crickets if effective cleanup after this virus proves to be possible. Experiments are underway. 

A well known parvovirus infects dogs. Believed to have mutated from feline parvovirus, also known as feline distemper virus, it first appeared in 1978 in the USA. It soon crossed the Atlantic to infect dogs in Europe. It is hoped that strict measures are voluntarily adopted to ensure that this cricket virus does not cross the ‘pond’ in the opposite direction. 

All contact with European commercially grown insects should be avoided and imports of these into the USA should cease with immediate effect. It is known that the largest commercial producer of Wax Moth larvae in the UK has shipped surplus stock to the USA in the recent past. This should no longer be considered viable. It may be wise to establish from your supplier if insects are USA home grown or not. The Brown House cricket is commercially extinct in Europe. It would currently be a tragedy if the same situation were to occur in the USA, whilst prevention remains possible. 

_Jon Coote is a professional herpetologist, trained at the University of Nottingham in the UK. He is Director of Research & Development for T-Rex Products Inc. He is Chairman of the Livestock Advisory Panel, of the UK’s industry association, the Pet Care Trust, and Chairman, and past President, of the International Herpetological Society._


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## forrestpengra (May 28, 2010)

We are currently going through this in Canada right now.  I cannot get small crickets and the adults that I get have high mortality.

We have been discussing this in the Canadian forum quite a bit.


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## lunashimmer (May 28, 2010)

forrestpengra said:


> We are currently going through this in Canada right now.  I cannot get small crickets and the adults that I get have high mortality.
> 
> We have been discussing this in the Canadian forum quite a bit.


I'm glad I didn't panic for absolutely nothing! Just ran across this from a cricket farm  http://www.ghann.com/faq.cfm#0:  

Is there really a CRICKET VIRUS going around? 
Rumors are running rampant, so I thought it was time to interject some FACTS regarding this situation.


YES, a number of producers in the USA and Canada are having problems with a cricket virus. 
THIS VIRUS WILL NOT HARM YOUR ANIMALS!  It is a very species specific insect virus.  It ONLY affects crickets - and in fact only one species - Acheta domesticus - which is the species all growers in the USA produce.  The scientists that are working on the issue assure us that crickets - even ones infected with this virus - ARE SAFE TO FEED YOUR ANIMALS.  If this were not so, we would tell you.  Believe me - the LAST thing ANY of us cricket growers want is to harm the animals that put food on our tables! 
We have been trying to help our industry comrades by selling crickets to them to help them stay afloat.  Yes - they are our competitors, but they are our friends as well. 
We are running short on crickets (primarily on the larger sizes - 5/8" and up) as a result of the huge increase in demand for our crickets.  Therefore all sizes are not available for sale, either on our website or for call-in orders. 
No one knows when the situation will be resolved.  Those affected are doing their best to clean up their facilities and get back on their feet.  We wish them the best, and are helping them when we can. 
We appreciate your patience and understanding while our industry deals with this difficult issue.

- - -
Regards,

Clay Ghann
President/CEO
Ghann's Cricket Farm, Inc.
5/19/2010


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## forrestpengra (May 28, 2010)

Yeah it will probably take some time to get sorted out and certainly some producers won't bounce back.  

A couple weeks ago I purchased 3 dozen Adults, within 12 hours 1/3 had died, another 1/3 was barely moving (basically parallyzed) and the remaining third behaved strangely slow.

I feed crickets to my slings but adults for the most part get B. dubia.  I'm going to get some Lats sometime in the near future.


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## jbm150 (May 28, 2010)

Is anyone breeding any other species of crickets here in the US?  If not, why not?  It'd be nice to have a larger species, like the Gryllus bimaculatus, as feeders for larger inverts.  Plus, should something like this virus hit the US hard, at least we have some diversity to fall back on.

EDIT: For those of us who can't use roaches, that is


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## KenTheBugGuy (May 28, 2010)

jbm150 said:


> Is anyone breeding any other species of crickets here in the US?  If not, why not?  It'd be nice to have a larger species, like the Gryllus bimaculatus, as feeders for larger inverts.  Plus, should something like this virus hit the US hard, at least we have some diversity to fall back on.
> 
> EDIT: For those of us who can't use roaches, that is



I think some of the major crickets for breeding are not legal in all places in the US and the ones that are don't breed like the kind we use for our hobby.   Not positive about that but jsut tid bits I have picked up from conversations in the past.  I have a breeding group going right now just in case my supplier runs out.  Also got Turkistans going.  It would be devistating for me if I did not have a food supply of some sort ...I go through about 14,000 crickets a week.


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## missscarlett (May 28, 2010)

*cricket paralysis virus*

Here in WA State we have had an escalating problem with this. Many LPS just say "Oh, our vendor  (almost all western WA LPS get from the same source) is just low right now because of (pick one)a.bad feed, b.a short-term illness that went through the last batch of crickets,c.got too hot/cold/radioactive (O.K....maybe I made that one up ;>). Noone talks about the cricket virus. Some local vets are advising their herp/T owners to switch to roach colonies. Cricket prices are increasing recently here as well.
Go figure!   Out of 1000 crickets in a shipment, I was seeing 30-60% dead within two days! And this is with an immaculately clean facility and excellent care! In seems reasonable that, just like other "factory farmed animals" some breeders will be hygenic and others will go for the fast buck- it's up to the buyers to check out our sources. When any group of animals, vertebrates or invertebrates, are kept in such close proximity, is it not logical to assume viruses may develope that spread through such colonies?
I'm guessing that this will have to be resolved as people, herpers included, switch to or add other prey items. Hopefully, USDA will not panic, hopefully this virus won't be a danger to native orthopterans (think colony collapse disorder and native bees demise).


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## xhexdx (May 28, 2010)

If the crickets you bought were adults, then the odds are good that they died of old age.


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## Crysta (May 28, 2010)

even the crickets here at the petstore are only available in small sizes he said there are no big sizes, and I got 12 though pretty slow crickets. 
I got these in PEI since the one in moncton had none at all available. (was passing by anyways.) 

xhexdx even if they where adults they would live a little longer then two days and I think it would be highly unlikely for 30-60% to just go into death within that amount of time... 

kenthebigguy....thats a lot of crickets man lol

maybe the gutload is infected at the petstores.... hahahaha


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## xhexdx (May 28, 2010)

CentipedeFreak said:


> xhexdx even if they where adults they would live a little longer then two days and I think it would be highly unlikely for 30-60% to just go into death within that amount of time...


The OP never stated they were only adults for two days.

They stated that they had them for two days.

Buying adult crickets is always a roll of the dice.  You have *no idea* how long they've been mature.


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## lunashimmer (May 28, 2010)

xhexdx said:


> The OP never stated they were only adults for two days.
> 
> They stated that they had them for two days.
> 
> Buying adult crickets is always a roll of the dice.  You have *no idea* how long they've been mature.


xhexdx, yes, I buy whatever the LPS gives me...always adults, always varying sizes, varying maturities. But the ones that died were not the biggest ones I had bought this time--so I'm pretty sure they were not the oldest? The most mature ones are the BIG ones and the oldest males are the ones that chirp, right? I'd say the ones that died right away were "teenagers". 

Anyway, as I live in FL I can't get roaches (I think--correct me if I'm wrong, please?), and I know that my Ts could live for a long time without being fed if something drastic were to happen to all the feeder crickets. I just wouldn't have as much fun with my Ts as I do now.


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## Crysta (May 28, 2010)

xhexdx said:


> The OP never stated they were only adults for two days.
> 
> They stated that they had them for two days.
> 
> Buying adult crickets is always a roll of the dice.  You have *no idea* how long they've been mature.


I was just assuming if he gets 1000 crickets he wouldn't get all adults because they would die before he could use them all...if its that much of a dice roll... unless he had a bunch of spiders and other reptiles, but then wouldn't he get enough for next week too if they were only to last about 2 days? Well if its the LPS he could always go the next day and get some 

I'm sure I was just inputing my experience instead of thinking of his situation... whoops.


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## xhexdx (May 28, 2010)

I get what you're saying, and the OP clarified anyway.

Usually when I buy them from an LPS, they don't have different sizes to choose from.  You say you want 'x' amount and they get them for you.

Either way, my thoughts regarding death by old age were incorrect in this particular scenario.

--Joe


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## Crysta (May 29, 2010)

xhexdx said:


> I get what you're saying, and the OP clarified anyway.
> 
> Usually when I buy them from an LPS, they don't have different sizes to choose from.  You say you want 'x' amount and they get them for you.
> 
> ...


Yours don't? Mine provides 3 sizes, small, medium, and big all different prices...but now they only have had smalls for the past 3 weeks... due to the aforementioned. The dude said a fresh batch of small ones came in as well, and I was like, well with what's going around they aren't going to make it to the size I would like them to be... haha. 

now...i go fetch me some superworm....


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## xhexdx (May 29, 2010)

If I need crickets, I need them in larger quantities anyway (500+), so I just call a bait shop in Florida and they'll ship them to me. 

I use other feeders most of the time, and only order crickets when I'm low on the others.


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## scar is my t (May 29, 2010)

KenTheBugGuy said:


> I think some of the major crickets for breeding are not legal in all places in the US and the ones that are don't breed like the kind we use for our hobby.   Not positive about that but jsut tid bits I have picked up from conversations in the past.  I have a breeding group going right now just in case my supplier runs out.  Also got Turkistans going.  It would be devistating for me if I did not have a food supply of some sort ...I go through about 14,000 crickets a week.


You really need a blog to talk about how you do things like getting 14000 crix and feeding them to the t's and other animals. And can I talk about the thing that is being contracted? IF of course that is actually true. I still cant wrap my head around the idea of them giving you that.......


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## Shell (May 29, 2010)

CentipedeFreak said:


> Yours don't? Mine provides 3 sizes, small, medium, and big all different prices...but now they only have had smalls for the past 3 weeks... due to the aforementioned. The dude said a fresh batch of small ones came in as well, and I was like, well with what's going around they aren't going to make it to the size I would like them to be... haha.
> 
> now...i go fetch me some superworm....


The LPS I get crickets from has "large" and "small" and they vary. This last time, the small ones were just a bit bigger then pinheads (which was perfect since I only need them for 4 tiny slings) but the large ones were more medium sized, so my big guys needed a few extra. The time before that, the large were basically ready to die and I just bought enough to feed everyone once, the smalls were more medium sized that time. I find it really varies. Also, I did have a bunch of the smalls die, I just picked up this last batch 2 days ago, so now I'm watching to see if there are any left when it's time to feed again.

So far I haven't had any issues getting them, hopefully that doesn't change but we'll see.


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## Draiman (May 29, 2010)

I am seeing the effects of this cricket pandemic over here as well - my regular cricket supplier has not had any _Acheta domesticus_ available for the past couple of weeks.


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## fartkowski (May 29, 2010)

I just came back from my LPS and was told that their supplier has about 2 weeks worth of crickets left. Unless he finds another farm that has some left, that will be it till this is over.


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## lunashimmer (May 29, 2010)

I just talked to my LPS and they have NO crix.  I asked why and the dude said they sold them all, and he expects a shipment on Tuesday.  I asked if he'd heard of the virus and he said no. I know the guy I talked to is not the manager/owner, so next week when I stop by, I'll see if I can talk to that guy.

The PetSmart here in town has both small and large crickets. They haven't heard of the virus.  The Pet Supermarket here has only small crix and the girl I talked to hadn't heard of the virus either.  :?  Maybe it's just overseas and in Canada so far???


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## lunashimmer (May 29, 2010)

And I forgot to mention that I have 3 crix left from this batch I bought Monday. One has mangled back legs and unkempt wings. It's medium-size. The other 2 are a bit larger and one is chirping. They seem to be ok but aren't eating. Usually when I dump some fish flakes in there they go nuts and devour it.  So, I don't know...   :?


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## eruheru (May 29, 2010)

I haven't noticed anything wrong in New York (long Island). Maybe that's because I don't buy in the same bulk that most of you seem too. I guess it's time to start a dubia colony.


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## Hobo (May 29, 2010)

I typically buy a ton on 2 week olds and raise them over a few weeks, just buying big ones for the big Ts. I've noticed the ones I've been raising lately are dying off before the adult stage, or if they make it, they are malformed and/or really small.


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## x007 (May 31, 2010)

*virus*

Yea this first I have heard of this too. I really havent had no trouble to speak of. I usually buy my crickets in tube from flukers 50 at a time 1/2 and 3/8 inch 1/2 inch I was able to keep alive for 4 weeks but thats really taking care of them. Just got some from LPS adult even there doing ok for the age except of coarse what mt T's eat. Also have roach colony now glad I did start this with this going on.


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## Salamanderhead (May 31, 2010)

I tried to raise a colony from 1000 but that seems to have failed. at least 75-80% died.  
 I've got about 40-50 matures left. The females are laying eggs and the males are chirping. Im guessing if the babies hatch they will probably not make it to adults anyways.  It would be nice though.


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## Obelisk (May 31, 2010)

I've had a cricket colony going for close to a year. I was going to buy some from the store to introduce some new blood into the group, until I read about this.


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## Malhavoc's (May 31, 2010)

if nothing else it begins the fun experimentation of new sources for feeders


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## evicton (May 31, 2010)

I bought 4 dozen crickets from my local pet store a week ago, a dozen can normally last me about 2 weeks as I only feed crickets to some frogs I have that just don't attack roaches like they do crickets. In less the a week after having fed only about 10 out all were dead. I also noticed after buying 4 dozen for almost 7 dollars that my lps prices had risen. They were dollar for a dozen two months ago.


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## ZergFront (May 31, 2010)

xhexdx said:


> Buying adult crickets is always a roll of the dice.  You have *no idea* how long they've been mature.


 +1 Yup. One of the very reasons I provide a moist soil box to every adult cricket order I get now. If I'm going to buy adult crickets that are going to either be eaten or drop dead, might as well get a bunch of pinheads out of it in the end. *shrug*


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## fantasticp (May 31, 2010)

I am confused. The first linked article is from 2004. I found another article searching from 2004 also. Is this a current issue, or isn't it? Just asking because threads and articles ressurect all the time.


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## evicton (May 31, 2010)

The first article linked is from 2004, but this is an issue effecting suppliers now as well. If you go to Gahnn's Cricket farm they have a faq on this virus that was linked and quoted earlier in this thread. Gahnn's is one of the largest us cricket farm operations and where shown on dirty jobs a few months back. I'd say if supply is hitting its going to be a bigger issue. 


On a side note the 250 pinhead crickets I got from ghanns 3 weeks ago are holding up just fine.


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## fantasticp (May 31, 2010)

evicton said:


> The first article linked is from 2004, but this is an issue effecting suppliers now as well. If you go to Gahnn's Cricket farm they have a faq on this virus that was linked and quoted earlier in this thread. Gahnn's is one of the largest us cricket farm operations and where shown on dirty jobs a few months back. I'd say if supply is hitting its going to be a bigger issue.
> 
> 
> On a side note the 250 pinhead crickets I got from ghanns 3 weeks ago are holding up just fine.


I red the FAQ from Ghann's crickets. I just couldn't find a recent article anywhere else. I think I am going to ask around and email some people before I help spread the panic any further though.


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## evicton (May 31, 2010)

While not any more of a fact then another cricket companys site.

www.premiumcrickets.com/

Has this at there site:
Due to such a large number of cricket companies experiencing the cricket virus and going out of business, we are separating our cricket business from our worm business. Worms will ship from a remote location and not come in contact with our crickets. Unfortunately, to get crickets and worms, you will have two shipping charges. We appreciate your understanding. 


Of course this doesn't even make any sense to the point of making someone pay 2 shipping charges everything I've read on this says it only affects one species of crickets.


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## fantasticp (May 31, 2010)

I texted a few people and looked around some more and I guess there are shortages for sure. I agree double shipping is a bit too far. There are different crickets at the place I work. They have a colored band behind their neck. I guess I should collect some and start a colony if it really only affects the common pet store variety.


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## Venari (Jun 2, 2010)

Malhavoc's said:


> if nothing else it begins the fun experimentation of new sources for feeders


How much do you wanna bet that this is all the result of an overly-elaborate, expensive, and Machiavellian scheme from some roach breeder to increase his sales? Bwahahahaha!


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## lunashimmer (Jun 2, 2010)

Venari said:


> How much do you wanna bet that this is all the result of an overly-elaborate, expensive, and Machiavellian scheme from some roach breeder to increase his sales? Bwahahahaha!


LOL!  I wouldn't be surprised...conspiracies abound!

I got some crix from my LPS today. They are very healthy (unlike the last batch), and obliterated 2 big pinches of fish flakes as soon as I put them in their KK. I'm hoping to get them to lay some eggs as I have a G.pulchra sling coming hopefully Friday, so this will be a good experiment to see if this batch stays healthy enough to have offspring. 

While I was at the LPS, I noticed a newly delivered box of live crix on the counter. Those seemed healthy too. I asked the cashier if she'd heard of the virus and she said she hadn't, but would talk to the owner.

Who knows?!?!?!  :?  From all the posts on this topic, it seems like there's a problem up north, in Canada, and in Europe, but not here in the south.


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## zonbonzovi (Jun 2, 2010)

Floridians use crickets?  All those native and not-so-native roaches...let the breeding commence!  Holed up in a N. Florida trailer park in the early 80s we had no shortage of roaches.  Hint: they love discounted birthday cakes


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## lunashimmer (Jun 2, 2010)

zonbonzovi said:


> Floridians use crickets?  All those native and not-so-native roaches...let the breeding commence!  Holed up in a N. Florida trailer park in the early 80s we had no shortage of roaches.  Hint: they love discounted birthday cakes


LOL!  We have plenty of "palmettah bugs" outside, what with the woods next door and tons of leaf litter everywhere thanks to all the huge oaks in the neighborhood...'cept we spray for them (I have a big ol' roach phobia) so I could never use them as feeders...and I think I'd end up in a straightjacket if I had to handle them. YUCK.

So, crix for me!!!  

Heh, "discounted birthday cake". Heh.


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## xhexdx (Jun 2, 2010)

There are several species here that I'm sure would make good feeders if they were bred down a few generations first.

Oh well.


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## cacoseraph (Jun 3, 2010)

my understanding is that only domesticus breed plague fast


all the crickets i am interested in do not breed anywhere fast enough to be feeders, just pets.  well, not feeders in the first few generations, at any rate =P


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## fantasticp (Jun 4, 2010)

cacoseraph said:


> my understanding is that only domesticus breed plague fast


Really? We have billions of these outside at night at work

http://mamba.bio.uci.edu/~pjbryant/biodiv/orthopt/Gryllodes supplicans.htm

They can't breed that slow with the number of widows and wolf spiders they support there lol.


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## esotericman (Jun 4, 2010)

It's real and it's called "Cricket Paralysis Virus" or CrPV (not the rabbit one).

I posted this on ATS:


http://www.fcla.edu/FlaEnt/fe89p282.pdf

http://mcb.asm.org/cgi/content/abstract/20/14/4990

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC203617/

http://www.springerlink.com/content/t875624117511284/


It's an RNA virus, and it's found in more than a few insect species or a closely related virus is.  It seems it was being described back in 1980.

I have not found CrPV to infectious to anything but crickets, lepidopterans, and drosophila.

As a hobbyist, I am more concerned with infected crickets passing the virus on to my invertebrates more than I am concerned with the lack of feeder crickets around. Having checked PubMed and BioAbs, I have found zero reports of this virus in any other groups. I would probably suggest those people who keep roaches as pets to wary though.

Michael Jacobi also chimed in here:

http://atshq.org/forum/showpost.php?p=185699&postcount=5


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## lunashimmer (Jun 5, 2010)

esotericman said:


> It's real and it's called "Cricket Paralysis Virus" or CrPV (not the rabbit one).
> 
> I posted this on ATS:
> 
> ...


Thanks for posting these resources, esotericman.


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## KenTheBugGuy (Jun 5, 2010)

*hit*

hit my supplier too now....even though not admitting.  They said they are fixing thier facilities to avoid it and won't be able to supply my counts to thier full amounts for a few weeks.   To me that says we have it but don't want anyone to know    Luckily I started breeding a couple other things to try and supliment this.    Silk worms and turkistans.


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## KenTheBugGuy (Jun 5, 2010)

*and*

and from what I understand the virus does not transfer but who knows for sure as I am not a biologist and don't know much about that.  My roach populations are doing fine though.


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## Protectyaaaneck (Jun 5, 2010)

Just heard of this for the first time today.  Tried buying some adult crickets at the show today and was informed about the virus. (explains why my LPS didn't have any last week either!) Never thought something like this could happen. :?

I don't need anywhere near the ammount of crickets that Ken needs but dang, this is going to make it alot harder to feed all of my T's.  Only about half of them accept dubia roaches.  Even though I dislike the things, I hope someone figures out a solution to the problem soon.


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## xhexdx (Jun 5, 2010)

Get lats.


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## BatGirl (Jun 6, 2010)

*Petco vs PetsMart*

I usually get my crickets from PetCo where, although a bit more expensive, they do last longer. I was told by PetsMart years ago that they irradiate their crickets to keep them sterile so they won't go breeding all over the place - and this radiation apparently also reduces their immune systems so they don't live quite so long either. Usually, of the crickets from PetsMart, 10% die within 24 hours, and just about all the rest will die within 4-5 days, so I never get more than a weeks worth at a time from them. Meanwhile, the crickets from PetCo all last for a week or two, with about 10% living longer than two weeks, so I'll get several weeks worth at a time from them.:clap:


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## Malhavoc's (Jun 6, 2010)

not to sound cynnical or skeptical but wouldnt irradating crickets make them not only more epxnesive but potentialy harmful to any and all things that ingest it? for some reason I dont quite think that is what they are doing.


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## fantasticp (Jun 6, 2010)

Malhavoc's said:


> not to sound cynnical or skeptical but wouldnt irradating crickets make them not only more epxnesive but potentialy harmful to any and all things that ingest it? for some reason I dont quite think that is what they are doing.


Maybe that particular employee was experimenting with the breakroom microwave.


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## Malhavoc's (Jun 6, 2010)

this is far more likely the case


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## BatGirl (Jun 7, 2010)

BatGirl said:


> they irradiate their crickets


Most of the processed food you eat is irradiated...:?

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dbmd/diseaseinfo/foodirradiation.htm


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## xhexdx (Jun 7, 2010)

BatGirl said:


> Most of the processed food you eat is irradiated...:?
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dbmd/diseaseinfo/foodirradiation.htm


1) Crickets are not processed food.
2) Crickets are sold alive - I didn't see anything in that link that said they irradiate living things.
3) Still doesn't answer the question regarding additional cost to irradiate crickets.
4) Why would petsmart care about whether their feeder crickets breed or not?


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## moose35 (Jun 7, 2010)

come on..........dosen't everyone know petsmart blasts thier feeders with burmese cobalt gamma rays.


        moose


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## BatGirl (Jun 12, 2010)

*irradiation of crickets*

Crickets are irradiated for sterility (i.e. possibly to try to keep the things from filling up your pet's tank with hundreds of those pesky baby crickets that end up driving your pet nuts and dying in the water bowl - and remove bacteria), but this also lowers their life span (so they can sell you more crickets?) - also scientific experiments indicate the irradiated crickets have cognitive issues as well...

Butter worms are also irradiated (required for importing from Chili - removes bacteria) .

Use a 'search engine' and read up guys before you start bashin' :?


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## Malhavoc's (Jun 12, 2010)

Im orry I have to re-itterate XHexDx's points

"1) Crickets are not processed food.
2) Crickets are sold alive - I didn't see anything in that link that said they irradiate living things.
3) Still doesn't answer the question regarding additional cost to irradiate crickets.
4) Why would petsmart care about whether their feeder crickets breed or not? 
"

the link you gave us doesnt mention crickets at all, can you give us reference to the carriers proclomation that they do irradiate crickets? because even if the points you say are functional, it is aso an issue of COST versus worth, and lets face it, a penny worht circket aint worth it to irradiate.


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## lunashimmer (Jun 12, 2010)

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/120076725/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0

This is an old (from 1971) article I found online by Googling "living crickets irradiated". I do believe that you cannot irradiate something that's alive. Unless it's with super low radiation levels--think xrays, CAT/PET scans, MRIs, etc--and the level low enough to NOT kill an insect would probably be impossible to calculate.

I am off to buy crickets at the LPS.  Non-irradiated, living crickets.  

Oh, and LOL Moose--"burmese cobalt gamma rays".  I heard that kind of radiation gives guys cobalt blue...balls!!!


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## BatGirl (Jun 12, 2010)

*This thread is so dumb and bores me...*



lunashimmer said:


> I do believe that you cannot irradiate something that's alive. Unless it's with super low radiation levels ... and the level low enough to NOT kill an insect would probably be impossible to calculate.


Exactly what are your mathematical credentials to make this 'it is impossible' statement? Apparently their irradiation is low enough to miss sterilizing all the crickets yet high enough to prematurely shorten the life of some crickets.



Malhavoc's said:


> I didn't see anything ... they irradiate living things.


Butter worms are _living things _that are REQUIRED by LAW to be irradiated, and subsequently are sold still alive for comsumption by pets. Crickets are _living things _that also get irradiated for other purposes... plants which are living in a sense also get irradiated and stay 'living'.

______________________________________________

I'm tired of 'baby-sitting'... go ask PetsMart yourself and quit being such XHexDx brown-nosers.


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## Crysta (Jun 13, 2010)

although as this article states its possible. 
http://www.astm.org/Standards/ISOASTM51940.htm


sorry must comment,
batgirl you're going to have half the bored on ignore in a month. lol, how childish are you to put it in your signature? And it seems the only people you ignore are the ones who point out your faults. I guess you are the 'I am never wrong' type of girl.


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## Malhavoc's (Jun 13, 2010)

my statement stands, despite batgirls claims I could not find any legitmate paperwork or publication of crickets being irradated in pet stores, nor could I get any emials back from the branch manager narest me at such a claim, I would be willing to press it further, if the attitude was not clearly derogitory and arguementitive. Mind you, I've stepd on x's shoes a few times, there is a time to understand when you are wrong, or done know, and a time to share belief, that is what lets us advance as a whole-chaanged theory and the like.

 It tempers the best forumale to b halanged, but all you are doing batgirl is al out inflamatory and detramental and spreading hearsay I have nothing left to say on this matter until you an give me some paperwork or something feesable.


4.3 Factory-reared insects may be treated with ionizing radiation, such as gamma radiation from 137Cs or 60Co sources, or X-rays or electrons from accelerators. Gamma irradiation of insects is usually carried out in small, fixed-geometry, drystorage irradiators (6-8). Dosimetry methods for gamma irradiation of insects have been demonstrated and include useful procedures for mapping the absorbed dose throughout the volume of the insect canister in these small irradiators (ASTMPractice E 2116 and Ref (9)) as well as large-scale gamma irradiators (ISO/ASTM Practice 51702 and Ref (10)).

4.4 Specifications for irradiation of factory-reared insects include a lower limit of absorbed dose and may include a central target dose and an upper limit. These values are based on program requirements and on scientific data on effects of absorbed dose on the sterility, viability, and competitiveness of the factory-reared insects.



Tis unfortunatly is a bit vague, they mention motly using the irradation to experiment and test various types of radiation if I read it correctly but the term ;factory insect' is far to vague for my liking.


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## lunashimmer (Jun 13, 2010)

If Bat's "bored"...why'd she respond?  :?

So, anyways, I amend my earlier statement: _I do believe that you cannot irradiate something that's alive. Unless it's with super low radiation levels ... and the level low enough to NOT kill an insect would probably be impossible to calculate._ I am NOT a mathematical genius and never claimed to be! Nor am I a biologist or entomologist. I am a T keeper and a new one at that.

The point I wanted to make, but I didn't, was that the crix I get at my LPS (not my PetSmart but a locally owned place) are not irradiated *to be sterilized* because they constantly reproduce in their containers at the LPS. That's how I'm able to get crix at all lifestages--juveniles less than 1/2" long up to adults with wings that are near the end of their natural life cycles.

The whole point of this thread was about the cricket paralysis virus and not about irradiation or anything else. I apologize to everyone that it got so out of hand.


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## Malhavoc's (Jun 13, 2010)

The links centipede freak wouldl ead to cricket irradation and otheri nsects certianly being done, however. done on a regular basis to sterlize feeders is doubtful, we need to think of the costs. the costs of irradating in itself then the losses of those that get too high a dose, and there will be. It would see the cricket price rising a great deal then just one or two cents per cricket.


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## 4202cvinc (Jun 24, 2010)

*cricket virus*

Don't see any updates since May. The cricket virus is here. Several commercial breeders in SoCal have gone down completely and a major supplier in Southern Forida was recently infected and it now out of business. Europe and the UK have faired better because they were not breeding exclusively brown house crickets. The lack of insect diversity in the US makes these breeders particularly susceptable. I fear it is but a matter of time. The transportation of the virus is yet unknown and there is not a method of cleaning the facilities to restart the colonies. 
 The virus is extremely species specific and does not appear to affect anything but the brown house cricket.


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## TheTyro (Jun 25, 2010)

Yikes, well good thing I started breeding my own crickets a few weeks ago. Just in case. I had read through this thread when it was active, but I forget how they said the virus was being spread? 

Oh, and the crickets I bought for breeding were from Petsmart, I was curious about the whole radiation debate. I am happy to say that the crickets I have are definitely capable of reproducing. I've got my first few pinheads as of yesterday.

I hope it doesn't get any worse, and if it does, that commercial breeders expand their cricket species!


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## evicton (Jun 28, 2010)

I've been buying in bulk though I end up wasting crickets but most of my frogs don't seem to go after roaches like they do crickets so I like to have a steady supply. In the intrest of breeding them I ended up getting a large amount of pinheads from one supplier like 1k and they are doing awesome. I also got some larger ones from another supplier which i was going to breed as they matured.

This batch of 250 is what I would call infected of course I can't confirm it for sure but there is something wrong here. First few days I did not have any deaths then boom on the fourth day I must have had 50+ deaths I know it took me a long time to clear the corpses out of there container. The next night I go to check on them and found another massive die off, not as many but still like 30 crickets. Night after that and each night since they I have lost close to 20 and would estimate I have around 40 left if that. I have fed at most 60 since I got them.


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## patrickbull (Jul 13, 2011)

I've found some new articles about this disease spreading in the U.S. It seems cricket farms are thinking of switching to the Jamaican Field Cricket. Here is what I found:

From: http://www.geckotime.com/jamaican-field-cricket-gryllus-assimili/


> *Attack of the Feeder Crickets*
> 
> The common house cricket (Acheta domesticus) may soon be a thing of the past. The deadly Cricket Paralysis Virus (aka Acheta domestica densovirus, AdDNV) that decimated the specie in Europe around eight years ago has essentially wiped them out to near extinction here in North America as well. The feeder insect producers have not even had a chance to recover from the devastating financial losses of the mealworm shortage that wreaked havoc on the reptile community in 2008, and we are now faced with yet another feeder crisis.
> 
> ...



From:http://bamboozoo.weebly.com/feeders-cpv-cricket-paralysis-disease.html


> By JANET McCONNAUGHEY, Associated Press Janet Mcconnaughey, Associated Press – Wed Jan 12, 3:50 am ET
> 
> PORT ALLEN, La. – A virus has killed millions of crickets that are raised to feed pet reptiles and zoo animals, putting some producers out of business and disrupting supplies to pet shops across North America.
> 
> ...



From: http://www.tophatcrickets.com/2010ShortageINFO.htm


> *Top Hat Cricket Farm*
> 1 (800) 638-2555
> 
> Since our last update we have had a few new developments that we would like to tell you about.
> ...


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## patrickbull (Jul 13, 2011)

From: http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2010/08/insect_virus_creeps_into_north.html


> *Insect virus creeps into North America, shuts down Portage commercial cricket grower*
> Published: Sunday, August 15, 2010, 6:00 AM     Updated: Wednesday, September 01, 2010, 11:05 AM
> By Rosemary Parker | Kalamazoo Gazette
> 
> ...


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## BobGrill (Jul 14, 2011)

Jon Coote? Haven't heard that name in forever. He's the guy who wrote that horribly outdated T-rex book on keeping tarantulas in captivity. Said there was no antivenom for the bite of the sydney funnel web spider and that indian stick insects and snake steak sausages make good food for captive Ts.


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## BobGrill (Jul 14, 2011)

This is extremely bad for me as I live in Florida and can't use dubias or any roaches. So if there are no crix left, then there are no alternative feeders.


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## ilovebugs (Jul 16, 2011)

wow, this is crazy.

My question is this, (note I didn't read all of the 5 pages, so forgive me if this has been brought up previously) would Field Crickets (Gryllus sp) be a viable option to switch too? I've never really understood why they aren't widely used as feeders. They actually grow a bit larger than Acheta domesticus.

As for the virus, I really wish I was already well into studying Entomology so I could look into it more myself or point some other bright minds to the matter.


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## lunashimmer (Jul 17, 2011)

Since I originally posted this a year ago, I haven't had any trouble buying crickets in FL. My LPS might be out on the particular day I stop in, but not because of the virus.

I did a quick Google search and no *new* articles have been written about the virus. I bolded new because I did find some articles posted but they were rehashes of the original article from last summer (above as posted by PsychedelicTs).

Either the virus didn't spread as widely as people originally thought it would (myself included) or it was stopped or minimized.  Whatever happened, I'm glad.


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## fantasticp (Jul 19, 2011)

lunashimmer said:


> Either the virus didn't spread as widely as people originally thought it would (myself included) or it was stopped or minimized.  Whatever happened, I'm glad.


All the pet stores by my house now sell the freaky red headed crickets. I'm pretty sure the brown ones got wiped out. Look closely. They don't look the same.


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