# stick insects



## phil2 (Jan 4, 2007)

whats the most common stick insect ,thats easy to look after and wil fit happily in a 8x5x5 plastic tank,hopefully be kept alone,and handable.

also are they good and whats there diet.


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## Vermis (Jan 4, 2007)

Indian stick insects, _Carausius morosus_ (do an image google).  Very, _very_ common; do well at room temps; eat privet, bramble and ivy.  Parthenogenetic, so if you only want one (though there's no real reason to keep only one ), remember to destroy any eggs.

Dunno if any stick insect would do in an 8x5x5 tank, though.  They need enough height - at least twice adult length - to hang from a stick or the food plant as they moult.  Indians are about 3-4".  Personally I'd try to give any sticks about 12" of height.
If you want something to fill the tank that's easy to care for, I'd recommend a couple of medium-large roaches.  But don't let that put you off stick insects.


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## the_frog_kid (Jan 4, 2007)

i think that a 10 gallon tank would be plenty 
they can live in a 5 but they need hight to shed properly 
 Medauroidea extradentata are a very prolific species but they are fun to 
a true pet phasmid would be extatsoma tiaratum or eurycantha calcarata 
they need alot of space tho 




thanx froggy


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## Mr. Mordax (Jan 4, 2007)

I don't know how beginnerish _Eurycantha calcarata_ is -- they can draw blood with spines on the hind legs, the females require soil to deposit eggs in, and some members of that genus (not positive on _calcarata_) can secrete / spray defensive chemicals.

@ phil2: if you live in the eastern half of the US, there should be some native species you can find.  Just go out on a warm night with a flashlight (but you'd have to wait until there's such a thing as a warm night).  If you live anywhere tropical, you're also likely to find some.


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## the_frog_kid (Jan 4, 2007)

umm im a begginner lol
i only had like a month or 2 first hand experience with phasmids before i got the calcarata 
no spray and they only prick you if you relly piss them off
mayby a male hisser would work 
cheap and fun
can be tamed so they wont hiss or attack




thanx froggy


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## Digby Rigby (Jan 4, 2007)

*Easy to keep and feed*

The Eurycantha calcarata are one of the easier to feed and keep.  A good choice for a larger species and they eat a wide variety of leaves.

Digby Rigby use this email  balboa28279@mypacks.net


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## the_frog_kid (Jan 5, 2007)

eurycantha calcarata eat ficus benji wich killes extatsoma tiaratum 
as well as romain on some occations and tons of oak 




thanx froggy


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## roach dude (Jan 5, 2007)

I use to have a Eurycantha calcarta... was a very aggressive little bugger... use to always try to spur me. Lucky i would wear gardening gloves!;P


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## Vermis (Jan 5, 2007)

I used to have a pair of 'em.  Great bugs.  Both were fairly docile and handleable.  The biggest problem was that they had _big_ claws and liked to make sure they had a firm grip...



> if you live in the eastern half of the US, there should be some native species you can find.


Maybe avoid _Anisomorpha buprestoides_, in Florida.


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## phil2 (Jan 5, 2007)

thats it ,i only have a small 8inch by 5 by 5
that adds up to about a 0.8 gallon,but i cant get bigger,but its a shame as i really want stickies,
i dont live in usa im in the UK.
questions,
1.can they be kept alone
2.is there lifespan 1 year?
3.were do i get the food ,i dont get it from the fgarden as we dont have any kind.we have raspery plants ,but that wont be with us all year?
sorry no way am i getting cockroaches,hate them lol.
and can they breed themselves,females?

and can they fly?


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## Wade (Jan 5, 2007)

The answers to some of your questions depend on species. Some species can live considerably longer than a year, while others considerably less. Some can inded fly.

A single ADULT  walking stick of a smaller species might live OK in your cage.  Cage height is very important for molting, which they need verticle space to do properly (they hang upside down). Adults don't molt, however, so hight isn't as big an issue.

The females of most species can reproduce through parthenogenesis (that is, without a male and the babies are essencially clones of the mother), and some reproduce that way exclusively. Some species will drop or even fling eggs and these tend to be dry tolerant and may hatch even if you don't do anything with them. Some species bury their eggs, and these are more delicate.

Not sure what food plants you'd have in the UK, but the rasberry leaves you mention can be collected and frozen when available and thawed during the winter. 

Here in the US, USDA regs have pretty much squashed the exotic phasmid hobby, but as you can see from this thread, many hobbyists still have them. However, many hobbyists have also been visited by USDA agents and had their animals seized. Although I totally disagree with the justification of the regs, the hassle of dealing with the USDA is not worth it IMO and I only keep native US species.

There's a UK based hobbyist organization called the Phasmid Study Group, I assume they still exist anyway. You might be able to get in contact with them and they might have more information on food plants availble to you locally.

Wade


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## phil2 (Jan 5, 2007)

right id prob get a indian stick
or any sizeable to a 8x5x5
its a 8x5x5 of one of these
http://www.robharvey.com/reptiles/images/standard-faunarium.jpg
so i could turn it on the side? and then it will be a 8 TALL 5 across and 5 back.
questions

1.you tell me the best species for handling ,grows to a size thats happy in that tank and can be kept alone(id get 2 if had 2).possibly a green one,and easy to care for.

2.can the indian ones fly,will they?

3.if it breeds i dont want babies so what do i do with the eggs

4.and do i get the twigs etc from a shop or garden.

5. the feeding cant i get something i can buy from a superstore and do they eat anything live.


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## edventurous77 (Jan 5, 2007)

good to see you on these boards phil (its ed from the reptile room forums) like i said phasmids need quite a bit of height


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## phil2 (Jan 5, 2007)

hi ed
erm yes these boards are great i know of none of stickies so i came here,how big a height ,would turning it on the side be of any help?

p.s i see your in liverpool,so am i ,pm me about were in liverpool,do you know of any reptile shops in liverpool.


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## Mr. Mordax (Jan 5, 2007)

The Indian stick insects don't fly to the best of my knowledge.  If you don't want numerous babies, you can simply freeze the eggs (at least overnight, longer is adviseable).

To the others on here, it's a bit relieving to know _E. calcarata_ isn't as scary as I initially thought.  I only have eggs so far -- do these have to be in soil in order to hatch (I'm aware the females deposit them that way), or are damp paper towels sufficient?


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## phil2 (Jan 5, 2007)

ok wil the indian fit comtably in there,please peeps read my last few posts for answers?
also what substrate do i use?


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## Mr. Mordax (Jan 5, 2007)

No substrate is required, just be sure to mist occaisionaly.  For food, I'd reccomend taking clippings from just about any bramble (or rose).  They'll eat it dry, but if you can put the stems in water, the food will last longer and be more "natural" for the sticks.  I imagine one or two indians should fit comfortably in that container, but not many more.


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## phil2 (Jan 5, 2007)

no thats fine i only want  1 or 2
will 1 be happy alone

can they be kept together say i got 2
so male and male or male and female or female and female?

you tell me the best species for handling ,grows to a size thats happy in that tank and can be kept alone(id get 2 if had 2).possibly a green one,and easy to care for.

the feeding cant i get something i can buy from a superstore and do they eat anything live.


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## Mr. Mordax (Jan 5, 2007)

Phasmids aren't social, but they are gregarious.  Basically they don't give a rip how many others there are.  And you're likely to only get females (I've never seen a male Indian stick).

As far as "best species for handling," almost all phasmids are handleable.  The few exceptions are the ones with huge spines that they use defensively or the ones that spray / secrete defensive chemicals.  Indian sticks do neither of these.  They vary from brown to brownish green.  If you just wanted green, I'd reccomend _Ramulus artemis_, but they may grow too big for that container (http://www.mga.com.pl/~adampl/ofertyhodowcow/apopiel/o144b.jpg)

Almost all sticks are easy to care for.  Just give them something to eat, a little moisture, and room to molt.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by something you can buy from a superstore.  If you're referring to plants that you can buy in nurseries, they'd probably eat some of those, but nursery plants are probably too small to provide sufficient foliage.

If you mean live as in live plants, yes -- as long as it's an acceptable food source (anything in the rose family or oak leaves are generally the best).  If you mean live as in live animals, no.  Phasmids are entirely herbivorous.


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## phil2 (Jan 5, 2007)

ok thanks

id like a green indian one
well we shall see
could i put the eggs outside
,they would prob die though as its too cold and birds would eat them.
yes what small plant would fit in a 8x5x5 ,with room to molt,when do they molt, i need more info on the moulting process

i ment from like ASDA OR TESCO food you can buy?
coz i have nothing in the garden.
sorry im new,,just learning but youre all being so nice :} 
do i spray the tank once a day
also my sister will need to look after it does she just feed them,and spray
what about there wee/poos.

and what do they feel like?


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## Mr. Mordax (Jan 5, 2007)

phil2 said:


> could i put the eggs outside, they would prob die though as its too cold and birds would eat them


I'd keep the eggs indoors.  If you want to kill off excess, just leave them overnight in a household freezer.



phil2 said:


> yes what small plant would fit in a 8x5x5 ,with room to molt,when do they molt, i need more info on the moulting process
> 
> i ment from like ASDA OR TESCO food you can buy?
> coz i have nothing in the garden.


I don't think you could get a whole food plant to fit in there.  Anything that fits would probably be defoliated before it could grow new leaves.  Are there no brambles growing wild anywhere near where you live?

Their molting process is like most insects; they hang upside down, their back bursts open, and they slowly squeeze themselves out.  Leave them alone for several hours when you see them doing this (upside down does not necessarily mean they're molting; a lot just rest that way) to let their exoskeleton harden.  They usually eat the old exoskeleton to regain the nutrients.



phil2 said:


> do i spray the tank once a day
> also my sister will need to look after it does she just feed them,and spray
> what about there wee/poos.
> 
> and what do they feel like?


Once a day should be fine, unless you have a spell of very dry weather (and if you live in England like I think I saw, it shouldn't be a problem ).  If your sister is looking after them, just make sure she changes out the food when they've eaten the last of it and mist daily.

The droppings are nothing to worry about.  They come out in these nice little pellets that are easy to sweep out (if they even produce enough that you need to clean them out).

And they feel like a BUG ON YOUR HAND!!     Sorry, couldn't resist.  The little ones (like Indians) don't really feeel like anything on your hand, and their exoskeleton is kind of rough to the touch.  The big ones have hefty foot-pads and claws that have a good grip on your skin.


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## phil2 (Jan 5, 2007)

good they sound good,just gota persuade the parents a bit more lol.


just the problem now is the stupid feeding situation
what else do they eat as a staply,something i can buy from a shop?

if i open the tank to get droppings out or something wil they escape?can they squeze through the top slots at the top.
will 1 be happy alone

can they be kept together say i got 2
so male and male or male and female or female and female?

are they ok with the handling process.


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## Wade (Jan 5, 2007)

Some phasmids will eat romaine lettuce and dandylion leaves, but I don't know if that would be appealing to Indians or not. Organic is best in order to avoid pesticides.

Wade


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## phil2 (Jan 5, 2007)

so what am i going to do about food.


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## Mr. Mordax (Jan 5, 2007)

Nothing comes to mind that you can get regularly at a store . . . I just patrol the streets at night looking for escapee blackberry brambles.

Escaping:  Some sticks run around if startled, but they don't usually get far, and are pretty easy to wrangle.  Adults shouldn't be able to get through those openings.  First instars _might_ be able to, but I rarely see sticks try to go through narrow openings.

And like I said earlier, it won't matter how many you have.  They do fine individually or in groups, and it's unlikely that you'll get a male.


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## Mr. Mordax (Jan 5, 2007)

I had one species eat lots of romaine lettuce but they never grew.  All but three from an entire clutch died as very old first or second instars.


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## Mr. Mordax (Jan 5, 2007)

For food, Phil: almost anything, if not anything, in the rose family should be good.  Check out this article, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosaceae, and see if any of these are locally available for you to get a few leaves from once a week.


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## phil2 (Jan 5, 2007)

so if i get a baby it might get out 

i can get strawberrys but there dear, say i get 20 strawberrys in the tub,how long wil it take for them to eat all that.

there only seasonal.

do they eat cabage.


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## Mr. Mordax (Jan 5, 2007)

You can cover the tank with fabric or netting (or even an old nylon stocking) to prevent escapes.

They won't eat the strawberry fruit, only the leaves.  I've heard that some will eat ivy, and I know that's available year-round.  You could try that.

I don't think they would eat cabbage.

Anywho, while I enjoy helping out, I have to get to work -- I should have started over an hour ago. :8o 

Good luck, Phil!


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## phil2 (Jan 5, 2007)

ok well what if i get one and get stuck then with feeding,if i canat get none

my local garden centre prob has some stuff so i can go there and take some leaves etc ,how long will they last
how much do they eat?


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## Mr. Mordax (Jan 5, 2007)

If you only have one or two, they won't eat very much.  I have two adult _Extasoma tiaratum_ with lots of adults / juveniles of a few smaller species, and I change out tall blackberry leaf bouquets about once every 10 days or so (not quite every other week).


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## Stylopidae (Jan 5, 2007)

The zoo I had my interniship at had a colony of phasmids going for 20 years on nothing but romaine lettuce.

And to answer the first half of your final question...it's all good


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## Vermis (Jan 5, 2007)

That's one of the biggest problems with phasmids, IMO.  You need to put in extra effort to find the proper food.  I don't know much about feeding romaine lettuce to them, but it sounds a little like a stop-gap measure.

If you want my advice, it would be other people's advice.   Specifically, the Small-Life Supplies website.  There's lots of info there, including some warnings about using plants from garden centres or supermarkets - full of pesticides, from the sounds of things.

Indian stick insects don't fly.  No wings.

Setting the tank on it's end might work; but again I'll suggest cockroaches.  You could imagine them as flattish stick insects that are a lot easier to feed.


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## Mr. Mordax (Jan 5, 2007)

Cheshire said:


> The zoo I had my interniship at had a colony of phasmids going for 20 years on nothing but romaine lettuce.


Must have been a different species than the ones I tried feeding romaine . . . the ones I was talking about were _M. extradentata_.


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## edventurous77 (Jan 5, 2007)

wont indian stick insects eat privet aswell, im sure i fed the ones i had as a kid on privet, privet is really easy to get in liverpool everyone has privet bushes in there front yards.


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## phil2 (Jan 6, 2007)

ok well once i know i can get the food and persuade parents i might be able to.
my lps are putting in a order on monday and said could get stickies in on tue,
one other thing i want is that it can live in the tank all its life,



and no way cockroaches 
hate them.

do you get twigs to go in the tank etc from outside.


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## phil2 (Jan 6, 2007)

do they all eat privets


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## Vermis (Jan 6, 2007)

The stems of the food plant might be enough to climb on.  If you want extra sticks I'd recommend the dried-out remains of old food stems. 

As far as I know only Indian sticks eat privet.  But I fed mine bramble and ivy (no nearby privet!), and I admit I haven't kept up with my phasmoculture (phasmiculture?).  Remember to keep away from streetside hedges!

And cockroaches are luverly.   Get a couple of chunky madagascan hissers sometime.  Aw, go on.


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## phil2 (Jan 6, 2007)

so let me get this straight,i get food from outside,i get things like ivy( i have varyegated ivy in the garden is that ok,what else can i get to feed,why not from streetside hedges?


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## Vermis (Jan 6, 2007)

Vehicle fumes!

Ivy from your garden might be all right, but again you have to be very careful about garden chemicals - pesticides, weedkillers etc.
Frustrated yet?  I know how it feels.

Take a look at the Small-Life link I posted, read through the site, especially the 'Ask Doctor Phasmid' section.  It's all there, and more.


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## edventurous77 (Jan 6, 2007)

i fed my stickies privet from my front yard hedge all ther (and kids and kids kids etc) lives an they where fine


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## the_frog_kid (Jan 6, 2007)

my m. extradentata eat romain 
indians do to but dont do well on it 
try your luck with a indian 
i know of tons of people in liver pool that freeze them they have so many 
email me off forum and we'll talk about gettin u setup with a few 




thanx froggy


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## phil2 (Jan 7, 2007)

froggy hi pm me with whatever it is.

yup lol confused .


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## the_frog_kid (Jan 7, 2007)

haha no sorry i hate pming 
if you have msn messenger add the_frog_kid@hotmail.com
email at the same addy




thanx froggy


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## phil2 (Jan 8, 2007)

aded you
 lol


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## phil2 (Jan 8, 2007)

is that big enough for stickies all its life,ive been told eleswere no.


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## Mr. Mordax (Jan 8, 2007)

Something as small as an indian stick, it should be ok.  Anything bigger, and you'd definitely need a larger container.


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## phil2 (Jan 9, 2007)

yes but big enough for 1 _*OR*_ *2* ALL ITS LIFE!!

i know i have a lot of QS's but everyoine here has eben so helpfull,if i hadnt known here i wouldnt know any of this.


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## Mr. Mordax (Jan 9, 2007)

Please refrain from e-shouting.  I'm sorry if I didn't properly address all your concerns earlier.

Anyway, indian sticks are small enough that one more won't make a difference, and over the course of their lives they won't outgrow that container.


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## phil2 (Jan 9, 2007)

http://www.thereptileroom.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=18081
here ive been told another answer.


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## edventurous77 (Jan 9, 2007)

my indians got to around 4 inches so an enclosure of that size wouldnt be suitable if they got that large


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## phil2 (Jan 10, 2007)

well if they got bigger id get a bigger cage,
which i think i will anyway.


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## Kevin_Davies (Jan 10, 2007)

Indian Stickinsects are incredably easy to care for, I was breeding them successfully (in large numbers) when I was 6.  Im sure all theyre care, feeding, housing requirements has already been covered in this thread, but i kept my ones in a tall glass vivarium (custom built) but you could keep them in any tall container, at least twice or three times theyre height is recommended, to help with shedding, humidity isnt important as other phasmids, the housing container wouldnt be expensive, you could even use an extra large petpal (sold in all petshops) turned on its site, or a large sweet jar.  An airy container is fine for them, and only light, occasional spraying you can use kitchen paper on the base, which makes cleaning and egg collecting very easy.  I fed my ones on Privet, they will also readilly accept bramble, Privet is very common everywhere in the UK, so you shouldnt have any problems with feeding them, you should collect theyre food away from roads, or other areas where they could possibly be contaminated with fumes etc.. its best to keep the food plant in a jar of water, sealed over (with a sponge etc..) to keep the leaves fresh, they should be replaced as eaten, or when they are no longer very fresh.  If theres anything else, let me know.


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## phil2 (Jan 10, 2007)

thanks


;


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