# Dubia vs. Lateralis Roaches



## Karmaz (Aug 12, 2015)

I despise crickets, they can harm my T's, they stink, they're annoying and they jump..  Enough said.  I've been researching both Dubia and Lateralis Roaches, trying to decide which would be better to start breeding.  My LPS doesn't carry feeder and the closet place to purchase crickets is an hour away and that's when they actually have some in Stock. Dubia seem popular but they like to burrow and play dead, which seems to be a pain in the butt to me.  Lobster roaches are out of the question after what I've read about them and the information on keeping and breeding lateralis Roaches seems to vary about as much as tarantula care sheets. 

So,  for those of you who have experience with lateralis Roaches,  please enlighten me. Or, for those of you with Dubia experience,  let me know why they're a better option..  Thanks!

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## Pokie Master (Aug 12, 2015)

Dubia do burrow and play dead. Also some tarantulas don't always eat them. Lateralis are a lot smaller, even as adults. Lateral is are very fast though... I've never had any species turn down a lateralis roach though when hungry. Some people say lateralis have somewhat of a smell... Though not as bad as crickets. I think dubia have a smell myself. Honestly I raise both myself... You can't go wrong raising either... Though dubia can be sold easier for a small profit. Dubia you should have a decent size container for. Lateralis you can use a smaller container and it will still work. If you have the room for 2 container try both... See which you prefer and go from there. Both can be kept in the same conditions. They really aren't hard to raise breed... (They're roaches! Lol) any specific questions feel free to ask


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## Karmaz (Aug 12, 2015)

I have a 30 gallon Sterelite (sp?) bin with the top cut out and screen glued in, water crystals,  egg cartons and food trays I guess my biggest questions are best Temps for breeding?  Humidity? Substrate or no And how fast do they breed? I can get a starter colony of 10 adults predominantly female and 250 nymphs for 13$ so adding to the population isn't an issue and for over population I have places that want the extras.


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## NTslinger (Aug 12, 2015)

In my opinion, you're probably better off without the Lobsters anyway. Mostly only my slings and arboreals will eat them. 

I keep both the Dubias and the Lateralis as well as a couple dozen other Blattodea spp. Between the _Blatta lateralis_ and _Blaptica dubia_, I would choose the Lateralis because they breed faster and are cheaper. Also, not all my tarantulas like to eat the Dubias. 

If you choose to go with _B. dubia_, crushing their heads will cause them to be jerky enough to instigate a response from your Ts, and they will not burrow when their heads are crushed. If you go with the _B. lateralis_, provide a substrate that can be misted occasionally as I found this will increase the hatch rate of the ootheca. 

I keep my both my roaches in large totes with some ventilation. Make sure the sides of the container are smooth so that they cannot climb out. With these species, there is no need for Vaseline or other barriers to keep them in so long as the container's sides are smooth. I give mine fish flakes, leftover veggies, fruits, dog food, etc. For water, I just use a shallow plastic bowl made rough with sandpaper or a razor and filled with pebbles. Replace the water and rinse the pebbles well as often as everyday. Provide plently of objects to increase surface area and to give them a place to hide. I've used large chunks of natural charcoal, cardboard, eggrates, cork, and well-rotted wood. Both Dubia and Lateralis appreciate a substrate, but it's not neccesary for either species, especially not for the Dubias. I occasionally mist if I see that adults are not molting well (wrinkled wings is males, raised wings in females for both species). In the Lateralis tub, I'll also mist the substrate if I see ootheca have shriveled. Lastly, I throw in a bunch of _Alphitobius diaperinus _ to eat roaches that have died.

A word of caution regarding the roaches,I've seen hungry Lateralis eating other live freshly molting roaches when I didn't feed them enough. It's not to the same degree as a hungry cricket, but you should watch to make sure the roaches get eaten anyway.

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## Pokie Master (Aug 12, 2015)

I keep them in same style containers. I have more problems with too much humidity due to being constantly humid plus all the humidity from fruits and veg. I use egg containers only. Even with the lateralis. Pretty much they survive and even breed at room temps. But if you really want to see them explode use a heat mat and keep them between 90-100 and feed them fruits and veg and make sure they always have water crystals.

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## NTslinger (Aug 12, 2015)

They'll slow down considerably under 70, and they'll start dying over 95, although I've had them in the high 90s for several consecutive days. Just don't let them get hot for too long. Unfortunately, I can't tell you the humidity. I just spray when I see bad a few bad molts or when the eggcases die due to dessication. Female Dubia roaches will let you know they're unhappy by aborting ootheca. An aborted ootheca once in a while usually doesn't mean much, but constantly aborted eggcases and no nymphs means you need to change something.

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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 12, 2015)

I feed mine T's mostly crickets but, sometimes, some Dubia "jumps" in. I never had a T who refused a Dubia, honestly. I noticed that _Acanthoscurria_ sp. especially loves those roaches, but being those T's 8 legged always on hungry mode like "Slimer" probably they aren't the best to trust 

_Chilobrachys_ sp. _Megaphobema_ sp. "Grammos", "Haplos", OBT, _Pelinobius muticus_ etc i had/have are, as well, Dubia lovers.

Don't know why, never offered those to _Psalmopoeus_ sp. and _Ephebopus_ sp. 

Anyway, mostly at 90% i use crickets. And true, Dubia loves to burrow (i found that very annoying).

Can't help for lateralis, never bought.

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## Karmaz (Aug 12, 2015)

Thanks for the info,  I'm going to go with the lateralis. They just seem like they come with less issues.  However,  I may purchase a dozen or so Dubia just to see how my bigger T's like them,  if it's a hit I may just do both. If they refuse,  I know a few bearded dragons who wouldn't complain.

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## Pokie Master (Aug 12, 2015)

Karmaz said:


> Thanks for the info,  I'm going to go with the lateralis. They just seem like they come with less issues.  However,  I may purchase a dozen or so Dubia just to see how my bigger T's like them,  if it's a hit I may just do both. If they refuse,  I know a few bearded dragons who wouldn't complain.


Only thing I can say about lateralis that I noticed myself at first and some others notice is that once you get egg cases it seems like they take forever to hatch. You start thinking your doing something wrong or that they might not hatch. Just hang in and wait. They will.


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## Karmaz (Aug 12, 2015)

I have the patience of a saint, ha..  And the ability to buy another hundred nymphs while I'm waiting. No worries on wait time..  Currently watching my slings munch on cricket chunks because large crickets were my only option..  Swear these things were 2 inches long and 1/2 an inch wide..  Killer crickets


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## Ellenantula (Aug 12, 2015)

I'll throw my vote in for B lats.  Easy to keep, breed readily, cannot climb smooth surfaces.  They're nicknamed red runners and they are FAST.  They have certainly helped my Ts hone their hunting skills -- mine have learned they can't outrun them, so they lie in wait for a fly-by.  I don't care for dubias because of the playing dead and burrowing aspect of them. 
I always feel a roach is a solid substantial meal, whereas crix (which I also breed and feed) seem more like appetizers in comparison.
Good luck, whichever you choose.

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## Pokie Master (Aug 13, 2015)

Ok I must say I've seen a few say lateralis can't climb smooth surfaces. That's somewhat true... They can indeed climb and jump and not fly fly but more like a bird with clipped wings... A decending flight. A ring of clear packing tape around the top edge insures they can't climb. If the sides get even dirty with dust they will indeed climb that smooth surface. I like both roaches but for different reasons. Lats I feed a lot to picky eater and even newly hatch lats to very tiny slings that you may feed fruit flies too. The dubia I like better for feeding my larger juries or adults. And they mostly seem to favor the larger meals over 2-3 lats at a time. Dubia won't attack T's for food... Lats can... Each has their benefits... Not trying to convince you of either but if you try both I'm sure you'd find your likes in each. Possibly dislike too? Lol Neither are hard to keep. good luck with your choice


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## Ellenantula (Aug 13, 2015)

Pokie Master said:


> Ok I must say I've seen a few say lateralis can't climb smooth surfaces. That's somewhat true... They can indeed climb and jump and not fly fly but more like a bird with clipped wings... A decending flight.


This is true.  Esp I notice with the males -- they can get a bit of lift-off, not true flying, but can gain a bit of height.  I keep mine in a bin with higher sides and am careful how high I stack egg crates.. And yeah, females can jump a little bit, but I consider the males the better escape artists.  They are also pretty smart -- and can form a ladder of teamwork to reach bin top, can easily slip under lid and out .... so the high sides are a must!  
Anyway -- good point for a newbie to B lats -- you really don't want escapes!


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## Karmaz (Aug 13, 2015)

Any escapees won't last long,  breeding roaches=roach traps all over the T room.  Besides that my house stays around 70 degrees, so they would just be running right back to their warm house. I'll risk a few stray roaches to be done with crickets.  My house is air conditioned during the day and it's starting to get cold at night, plus with winter coming soon there'll be gas heat drying the whole house out and an electric heater to amp up the heat in the T room,  so even dryer in there..  Not exactly their cup of tea. If i lived in Texas etc.  I'd be worried.


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## Pokie Master (Aug 13, 2015)

I just cringed... Please don't put roach traps all over the T room lol only takes one to grab a chemical poison whatever used and then run across a vent hole in a T enclosure... Good thing lats and dubia don't live long out of the colony. Provided you don't have food laying around for them or live somewhere tropical... Usually winter will kill them if they survive that long...

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## Karmaz (Aug 13, 2015)

Well considering they don't climb smooth surfaces well and my T's are on stainless steel (very smooth)  shelving units,  with the lowest shelf 4 ft up (I have toddlers lol)  and the roach would then have to climb up the smooth enclosure of the T..  That seems like a lot of work for a roach that doesn't climb well lol. Roaches are going in the closet of the T room..  Not on the shelving, tote is too big to be keeping on a shelf and constantly lifting down.


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## Pokie Master (Aug 13, 2015)

That might not be too bad then.


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## Karmaz (Aug 13, 2015)

Pokie Master said:


> That might not be too bad then.


 And being roaches I'd assume they'd make a beeline for the door with the kitchen on the other side of it, where there are always crumbs, once again I have toddlers lol . I can sweep non stop..  Always crumbs.


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## shawno821 (Aug 14, 2015)

I keep my dubias in my T room,in sterilite bins,and I don't even use a lid.They can't climb to save their lives.I've never had an escape. I feed everything from my 1.25" G.acteon to my large female stirmi.I used to think I had T's that wouldn't eat them,but now I realize those were just in pre molt.I only keep NW terrestrials,so there may be some out there that won't eat them,but all mine will eat them.They are a much hardier meal than a few crickets,which I only rarely feed just to mix things up once in awhile,when I can pick them up cheap at a reptile show.I prefer dubias to lateralis,just because of their size.

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## cold blood (Aug 14, 2015)

shawno821 said:


> I keep my dubias in my T room,in sterilite bins,and I don't even use a lid..



I had no idea they were so easily contained.


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## shawno821 (Aug 15, 2015)

cold blood said:


> I had no idea they were so easily contained.


Yup,just keep the egg crates from touching the sides,and you'll have no problems. I've never had an escape,and even if I did,my T room is in a cool cellar.It's only in the low 60's outside of the T room,so they wouldn't last long if they did get out.As for smell,if you start smelling your dubias,it's time to clean the bin,that's all.


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