# Lair of a brown recluse



## 8ball (Jul 8, 2012)

Taken in west Texas, I was outside just enjoying the night and seeing what things were out. I passed by this hole and checked it out with a flashlight first off and it looked clear to me, still I took pictures just because I like caves and these are mini-caves, I didn't look at the pictures fully until later so when I noticed it for me it was somewhat of a spook photo like seeing a ghost pop into your picture. 

Thought you all might enjoy seeing a brown recluse in a natural habitat, pictures are in order as I took them.


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## Mal De Hyde (Jul 8, 2012)

*Thank you for posting the photos*

Thank you for posting those photos.  For a great many of us who live well outside its range, we would otherwise be unlikely to see such a thing as the lair.  It is always good to see "real" photos like that, in that you can imagine yourself actually there.:biggrin:


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## Mal De Hyde (Jul 8, 2012)

*Lair of a Hogna carolinensis*

Since we are on the subject of lairs, I had taken a few lair pictures in the recent past myself, and I thought I would post one of mine.  For those who have never seen the burrow of a Hogna carolinensis, the picture I am posting is the burrow of an adult female taken in one of the warmer regions of Pennsylvania.  These are typically dug into soft, damp clay soil in sparsely-vegetated ground.  The holes are large enough that they can be spotted from about ten feet away.

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## 8ball (Jul 8, 2012)

No problem, and thanks also for your picture I had to google the species and it's a very nice one, it must look mean waiting just inside the entrance. I'll have to find one of the local species of wolf spider here soon to get a snapshot of


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## Mal De Hyde (Jul 8, 2012)

You're welcome for the pic.  You can insert a long, thin stalk of grass into a burrow like this to "check" it.  At a certain point you'll feel something tug on the inserted end, kind of like fishing.  This seems a fairly universal technique, as I've also used it over at the Atlantic coast where I have found many Geolycosa wolves.  A guy I knew some years ago from Texas found a nifty (and large) Geolycosa specimen in his own backyard.  Maybe you will see something similar.

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## Ciphor (Jul 9, 2012)

Am I the only one that doesn't see a spider in any of these pictures?

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## Ungoliant (Jul 9, 2012)

Ciphor said:


> Am I the only one that doesn't see a spider in any of these pictures?


I couldn't find the brown recluse either. (I think the wolf spider burrow is just supposed to show a burrow.)


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## catfishrod69 (Jul 9, 2012)

Same here, no recluse..


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## Austin (Jul 9, 2012)

in the last picture, focus on the middle of the pic then look slowly towards the upper left. It's a little blurred but there is a faded out spider.


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## Ciphor (Jul 9, 2012)

Austin said:


> in the last picture, focus on the middle of the pic then look slowly towards the upper left. It's a little blurred but there is a faded out spider.


I guess here is where I am confused. I saw that blur of a spider in image#3 as well, but nothing that says "Hi there, I'm a brown recluse spider".

OP states "_I passed by this hole and checked it out with a flashlight first off and it looked clear to me, still I took pictures just because I like caves and these are mini-caves, I didn't look at the pictures fully until later so when I noticed it for me it was somewhat of a spook photo like seeing a ghost pop into your picture. _". Meaning he did not ID the spider till he saw it in the image.

So how was this spider ID'd as a brown recluse?


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## 8ball (Jul 9, 2012)

Well if by small chance it was a different type of spider I would be shocked, living here my whole life though there's no other spider even similar to that color and body type other than a brown recluse. I took this on an Iphone, which I couldn't even get light for the picture until the camera flashed (was also using my Iphone as my flashlight) so it's not a great picture but it's definitely a recluse floating in the middle of the picture imo. I know how arachnoboards is all about technicalities though (I.E show me the hourglass) and technicalities have helped me identify things better as well so hopefully next time I'll be able to get a better picture, I was just excited to even get that unexpected snapshot since most of the ones I see are roaming on the ground or on walls so had to share it.


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## catfishrod69 (Jul 9, 2012)

I seen that spider in the 3rd pic as well. But it was so blurry i wasnt sure if it was just roots that happened to appear as a recluse or not.


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## Ciphor (Jul 9, 2012)

8ball said:


> Well if by small chance it was a different type of spider I would be shocked, living here my whole life though there's no other spider even similar to that color and body type other than a brown recluse. I took this on an Iphone, which I couldn't even get light for the picture until the camera flashed (was also using my Iphone as my flashlight) so it's not a great picture but it's definitely a recluse floating in the middle of the picture imo. I know how arachnoboards is all about technicalities though (I.E show me the hourglass) and technicalities have helped me identify things better as well so hopefully next time I'll be able to get a better picture, I was just excited to even get that unexpected snapshot since most of the ones I see are roaming on the ground or on walls so had to share it.


There are literally hundreds of brown male spiders with long legs like that. That spider could be anything mate, sorry, but that is the truth.

EDIT TO ADD: Forgot to mention, your in Texas too, IIRC you have the 4th most diverse fauna in the country? Either way, it is a very big group of critters out that way.


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## 8ball (Jul 9, 2012)

Ciphor said:


> There are literally hundreds of brown male spiders with long legs like that. That spider could be anything mate, sorry, but that is the truth.
> 
> EDIT TO ADD: Forgot to mention, your in Texas too, IIRC you have the 4th most diverse fauna in the country? Either way, it is a very big group of critters out that way.


 Overall definitely it is diverse, if I drive a few miles out of town I'll probably find things I may have never seen before, in my part of town and I live close to the edge of town (it's not a big town but enough to keep a good amount of things out in the country) you mostly see the same things though. But take it as you want, may or may not have been just in my opinion of seeing them regularly and living here it's at least an 80+% chance it's a recluse, as you said though nothing is set in stone by this picture, individual viewers I hope appreciate the pics either way.


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## Ciphor (Jul 9, 2012)

8ball said:


> Overall definitely it is diverse, if I drive a few miles out of town I'll probably find things I may have never seen before, in my part of town and I live close to the edge of town (it's not a big town but enough to keep a good amount of things out in the country) you mostly see the same things though. But take it as you want, may or may not have been just in my opinion of seeing them regularly and living here it's at least an 80+% chance it's a recluse, as you said though nothing is set in stone by this picture, individual viewers I hope appreciate the pics either way.


I'd bet you see different spiders more often then you think, and you are dismissing them as the same spider. Trust me, in your small area there is a large fauna, and it is far more diverse then 80% of your spiders being the same spider. I don't imagine there is anywhere on earth where you run into the same spider 80% of the time.

Most laymans are shocked to find out just what diversity is on their property, and like yourself, most think they only run into the same few spiders over and over. Once you start collecting and IDing you start to see what I am talking about. I understand your feelings tho, before I start studying hard I thought all I had was common house spiders and giant house spiders. Years later I still find new species I have yet to ID on the outside of my house. Just found my first _Callobius pictus_ on the side of home, usually only see them in the forest. Pretty exciting for me!

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## schnautzr (Jul 10, 2012)

It would be awesome if you wouldn't mind taking the time to upload a photo at Wikipedia, where readers outside their natural "outdoor" range currently have no idea what a wild brown recluse home looks like. I've yet to see one in person outside the comfort of a brick structure.


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## Ciphor (Jul 10, 2012)

schnautzr said:


> It would be awesome if you wouldn't mind taking the time to upload a photo at Wikipedia, where readers outside their natural "outdoor" range currently have no idea what a wild brown recluse home looks like. I've yet to see one in person outside the comfort of a brick structure.


This would be removed as you cannot confirm an ID from a blurry image. No mater how bad you want that spider to be a brown recluse in some new found brown recluse hole. It's just as possible that blur of a spider looking thing is a Opilione (daddy long leg, harvestman, etc.)


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## 8ball (Jul 10, 2012)

schnautzr said:


> It would be awesome if you wouldn't mind taking the time to upload a photo at Wikipedia, where readers outside their natural "outdoor" range currently have no idea what a wild brown recluse home looks like. I've yet to see one in person outside the comfort of a brick structure.


 Good idea, I haven't seen many pics of them other than in enclosures as well. I'll have to find one and get a better picture though hopefully with that mean looking face of theirs and the hourglass in full display lol.


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## Ciphor (Jul 10, 2012)

8ball said:


> Good idea, I haven't seen many pics of them other than in enclosures as well. I'll have to find one and get a better picture though hopefully with that mean looking face of theirs and the hourglass in full display lol.



You find a lot of brown recluse? All over, 80% right? Can you do the thread a favor and take a good picture of one of the brown recluse you find in and around your home. Not the one in this hole, but one of the others you see so often, one of the none reclusive ones with an hour glass.


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## 8ball (Jul 10, 2012)

Ciphor said:


> You find a lot of brown recluse? All over, 80% right? Can you do the thread a favor and take a good picture of one of the brown recluse you find in and around your home. Not the one in this hole, but one of the others you see so often, one of the none reclusive ones with an hour glass.


 yeah definitely, since I see so many I found it more cool to see one claiming territory in a burrow, but I'm sure if not tonight then one of these nights I'll find one on the wall near a spotlight. Ground roaming ones you have to look for a bit more since they blend in with the ground but I'll be taking snapshots as they come


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## schnautzr (Jul 11, 2012)

Ciphor said:


> 8ball said:
> 
> 
> > Good idea, I haven't seen many pics of them other than in enclosures as well. I'll have to find one and get a better picture though hopefully with that mean looking face of theirs and the hourglass in full display lol.
> ...


Um...you mean _violin_, don't you? Brown recluses don't have an hourglass. Suddenly the photographic confirmation seems a bit more important.


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## 8ball (Jul 11, 2012)

schnautzr said:


> Um...you mean _violin_, don't you? Brown recluses don't have an hourglass. Suddenly the photographic confirmation seems a bit more important.


 Yeah I was mixed up with a black widows marking absent mindedly and I see what he did there talking about a reclusive "hourglass" lol, anyways one has an hour glass, the other has a violin, both have something to distinguish them and both are native to my area, I've been out of the hobby for a good while and don't even keep any species so it shouldn't be taken major if I misuse terms

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## loxoscelesfear (Jul 11, 2012)

the spider appears to be hanging in a web.  if so, not a Loxosceles.  Maybe a Pholcidae.  Not to say that you do not come across recluse in western Texas where 4 species occur: Loxosceles apachea, L. blanda, L. devia, and L reclusa  (probably 5 species since L. rufescens arrived in the US).


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## Ciphor (Jul 11, 2012)

loxoscelesfear said:


> the spider appears to be hanging in a web.  if so, not a Loxosceles.  Maybe a Pholcidae.  Not to say that you do not come across recluse in western Texas where 4 species occur: Loxosceles apachea, L. blanda, L. devia, and L reclusa  (probably 5 species since L. rufescens arrived in the US).


I'm guessing Opilione. Pholcidae hang upside down from their web, I don't think I have ever seen one up right, tho it might be vertical. I don't think a cellar spider would pick a location on the ground in a open hole like this tho, they like to get up high away from the ground whenever possible. Fiddlebacks lay flat to the ground, not with legs bent up like this, and legs even tho its a blur are noticeably thin. Every bit of it looks like a harvestman, which would make a lot of sense, because they can be hard to see with the eyes because of their super thin legs. *shrug* can only guess with a blur tho.


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## Ungoliant (Jul 11, 2012)

Ciphor said:


> I'm guessing Opilione. . . . Every bit of it looks like a harvestman, which would make a lot of sense, because they can be hard to see with the eyes because of their super thin legs.


I can't see the "web" in this picture, but if the mystery arachnid is in its own web, we can rule out harvestmen; they don't have silk glands.


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## Ciphor (Jul 11, 2012)

Ungoliant said:


> I can't see the "web" in this picture, but if the mystery arachnid is in its own web, we can rule out harvestmen; they don't have silk glands.


Yes, Ungoliant do you think I know the scientific name for harvestman but not their basic anatomy, common now 

I was implying there is no web.

Continuing to debate this is simply fantasy at this point.


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## schnautzr (Jul 12, 2012)

For whatever it's worth, the spider in #3 is definitely not hanging upside-down in a web. The perspective of the photo is particularly intriguing-- it's as though the spider is supported by the ground, but the root beneath it puzzles me. Anyway, it does look very much like a recluse...awaiting the better photo.


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## loxoscelesfear (Jul 12, 2012)

schnautzr said:


> For whatever it's worth, the spider in #3 is definitely not hanging upside-down in a web. The perspective of the photo is particularly intriguing)


confusing pics indeed-- the poster inverted the last picture where the spider appears to be laying among the roots when in fact it is hanging upside down in what i suspect is webbing not visible in the photo.  as to which species: who knows?  too blurry to tell.  I am not questioning your knowledge of recluse spiders, I know Vanderburgh county well, it is a recluse haven.  in my opinion, it would have to be a different type of spider considering that recluse do not reside in webs.

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## Ungoliant (Jul 13, 2012)

Ciphor said:


> Yes, Ungoliant do you think I know the scientific name for harvestman but not their basic anatomy, common now
> 
> I was implying there is no web.


The best thing about using sarcasm on the Internet is that there are no distracting nonverbal cues.


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## catfishrod69 (Jul 13, 2012)

8ball, maybe what you should do, is go have another looksie in that hole. If the spider is still there, try and get better pics. This thing will be long dead of old age, and the thread will go on and on lol.

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## schnautzr (Jul 14, 2012)

loxoscelesfear said:


> confusing pics indeed-- the poster inverted the last picture where the spider appears to be laying among the roots when in fact it is hanging upside down in what i suspect is webbing not visible in the photo.  as to which species: who knows?  too blurry to tell.  I am not questioning your knowledge of recluse spiders, I know Vanderburgh county well, it is a recluse haven.  in my opinion, it would have to be a different type of spider considering that recluse do not reside in webs.


You raise an interesting point...the orientation of the last pic is very different from that of the first...and the vegetation within appears to defy gravity if that photo is right-side-up. 

I've seen brown recluses upside-down, but it's a very rare sight...and I can't think of why one would assume that position in its own lair.

Now I'm even more curious to know what's going on in this photo!


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## 8ball (Jul 14, 2012)

catfishrod69 said:


> 8ball, maybe what you should do, is go have another looksie in that hole. If the spider is still there, try and get better pics. This thing will be long dead of old age, and the thread will go on and on lol.


 I would, but as I said when I posted this was just a hole I took some snapshots of, there's so many holes around where I live that I have to watch where I step when I go out at night lol. So sadly this is all up for speculation, I think each viewer should take it as they see it, I definitely believe it's a brown recluse but people can speculate as they want and I think it's all in fairness


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## catfishrod69 (Jul 14, 2012)

I totally understand. I havent a clue what it is. Could be recluse, harvestman, etc...





8ball said:


> I would, but as I said when I posted this was just a hole I took some snapshots of, there's so many holes around where I live that I have to watch where I step when I go out at night lol. So sadly this is all up for speculation, I think each viewer should take it as they see it, I definitely believe it's a brown recluse but people can speculate as they want and I think it's all in fairness


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