# When did this happen?



## KUJordan (Aug 12, 2010)

So back in the day, when AB first started out along about the time VL also got up and running there were some really cool and advanced folks on here as members.  I was a very active member here for many years.  I personally knew many people who kept a vast array of scorpions, tarantulas, and true spiders as well as centipedes.  We all were very much concerned with the advancement of the hobby and the availability of some of the more rare species.  We all bred our species and we studied- we read and most of us seemed extremely competent to do our own research about whether certain species were communal or not, or what the best husbandry conditions were to successfully breed and grow them.  It just seemed to be a very bright and shining time for this hobby.  I would get on here at least every day if not 10 times/day and I was always excited to see what new observation or what new trick one of us had come up with to advance our hobby.  Not only was the wealth of knowledge on AB and VL growing, but so was the improvement of our photography.  Members were taking some really breathtaking photos- photos that were as scientifically and taxonomically valuable as any you would find in an arachnology journal.  It seemed that time was a turning point for arachnoculture- the time when this hobby would be growing and never look back.  

Then something happened...

It seemed like our generation of keepers, breeders, and investigators left.  I started medical school and got married.  I know others moved and their personal lives changed dramatically as well, leaving them with less time available to immerse themselves in this hobby they love.  There was a time when had you logged on here never would you have seen a thread subject like "what is the coolest scorpion?" or, "what would kill you the fastest- a deathstalker or getting hit by a train?" or, "need a spider ID!" and the spider in question is some microscopic house spider and the photo provided is so blurry and dark you can barely even be sure it is a spider at all.  I cringe every time I log on here every month or so and read posts about how someone's P. imp is "sick" because it is not moving and they thinks it's going to die.  There are so many posts and so much information about Emps that all someone would have to do is look up the answer to any question or concern they need, but it doesn't seem the new generation is doing that.  No one is digging deep into the husbandry and research and it seems that people aren't doing the true work like we used to. There is very little of "substance" on the boards these days.  It's sad for me because of how the great ambassadors of this hobby worked so hard and made this whole thing what they were all about.  We took a ton of pride in all this and being knowledgeable- not in folk tales or common names, but in the truth and the natural history.  I hope it can get back to that someday.  Thoughts?


----------



## GPulchra (Aug 12, 2010)

I have contributed to the overall stupidity of the newer members on this forum, unfortunately, and I'm not afraid to admit it. Although, I have noticed such a drastic change in forums. Flytrapcare, Animal Crossing Community, Tamatalk, they were all as you described and just became a hideout for n00bs now. It's a shame that these things happen, but that's people nowadays.


----------



## Travis K (Aug 12, 2010)

Many of the older members are to blame as they got bored and left.  Which is sad in and of itself as they are not here to mentor the newbs.  I would say there are more invert 'enthusiast' now than ever(the ones like your old school memories), but also a lot of 'others' mixed in.  Plus a lot of people that research don't really have a need to post as they can lurk and become 'experts' without even posting.


----------



## Sleazoid (Aug 12, 2010)

KUJordan said:


> Thoughts?


Quit if you don't like it?


----------



## AzJohn (Aug 12, 2010)

Chocoboizm said:


> Quit if you don't like it?


Wow, with all your years of experience  you'd be willing to tell an experinced keeper breeder that there input isn't needed. I guess we should let the new guys quote care sheets at one another. Honnestly without people with first hand knowlegde and experience this forum is a waste of everyones time.


----------



## Offkillter (Aug 12, 2010)

I despise your holy-er than thou take on this hobby.I think that i'am not alone in saying that (though a noob) I have spent countless hours researching My next tarantula.I for one like to cover all the bases before getting a new "pet".
To classify everyone  because of the few beginner questions is narrow minded and insulting.That is the beauty of Arachnoboards the uninitiated can come together with far more experienced keepers and not be ridiculed.So here's to you Arachnoboard thanks for being there for me.


----------



## Sleazoid (Aug 12, 2010)

AzJohn said:


> Wow, with all your years of experience  you'd be willing to tell an experinced keeper breeder that there input isn't needed. I guess we should let the new guys quote care sheets at one another. Honnestly without people with first hand knowlegde and experience this forum is a waste of everyones time.


I am not saying there is no input needed. If someone is just going to complain about something. Saying they cringe when they come on this site, then do not bother to come on? Is that not the most reasonable answer does it not? I am not saying I know more than anyone else on this site, because I don't. I do not have even a year of experience in THIS hobby. But in the exotic animal hobby in general, I have many. I have not once said anyone to this hobby was invaluable, I was merely stating that if he doesn't like this site why bother even coming on it?


----------



## snappleWhiteTea (Aug 12, 2010)

nostalgic? 

I wasn't around for the ol' days i guess, but you could lead by example, show us how 2005ers did it.

you could do the natural thing and just blame the economy lol. that's the easiest thing to do in a situation like this.


----------



## AzJohn (Aug 12, 2010)

snappleWhiteTea said:


> nostalgic?
> 
> 
> you could do the natural thing and just blame the economy lol. that's the easiest thing to do in a situation like this.


Or Obama.

I agree with what you are saying. If no one one is around to start great threads and reply to them then all we get is newby questions. The problem is that people change and can't find time for forums, in particular if they aren't finding any threads that they are interested in.


----------



## Avery (Aug 12, 2010)

Although I don't post very often, I have been on this board for years. I've kept many scorpions over the years, and am currently down to a single Opistophthalmus species. Arachnoboards has been a great source of information, and I am grateful. I absolutely understand what KUJordan is saying, and I agree with him. There really needs to be more quality control on this board. Not exactly sure how that would be achieved... I guess this is what happens when the hobby is heavily saturated. 
I'm not saying don't post here, but asking for an ID on some blurry cell phone picture?? Give me a break! AND THE SEARCH OPTION IS THERE FOR A REASON!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Bayushi (Aug 12, 2010)

I went on Hiatus from the forums (due to many reasons) and noticed when i finally got back into the hobby almost everyone i use to chat with was gone.

The biggest gripe i have with things here, and every forum i go to, is the whole "use the search function". Things seem to have become clique-ish and there isn't a lot of sharing of knowledge. Or acceptance of new people.  We were all "noobs" once, right?

I drop in from time to time, read a few posts and go on my way.(yes i contribute nothing to conversation.) I just don't understand how things went down hill in such, what seems to be, a short time.


***  disclaimer***

Yes there are still people here who help new folk out. SKD, Nomad, Galapoheros, Michiel and a few whose names escape me at the moment.  So i'm not saying it's all bad.... but yeah...  I'm rambling, so i'll be going now


----------



## Galapoheros (Aug 12, 2010)

Travis K said:


> Many of the older members are to blame as they got bored and left.  Which is sad in and of itself as they are not here to mentor the newbs.  I would say there are more invert 'enthusiast' now than ever(the ones like your old school memories), but also a lot of 'others' mixed in.  Plus a lot of people that research don't really have a need to post as they can lurk and become 'experts' without even posting.


That's what I think, the experienced people get bored, seeing the same questions over and over again, it cycles.  I think it turns into something like teaching the same class over and over again.  Even pointing out or trying to get newer people to keep in mind that there is the search function is something that is taught to people in a way.  So then people get impatient, bored and leave, lurk around.  I also think part of it is the economy, things seem worse than what we are being told by the gov or media ..what else is new.  More houses up for sale in my neighborhood lately, along with the others that have been for sale a loooooong time.  I heard the banks are holding on to houses trying to keep prices up, praying it will get better before they have to sell, don't know the details.  They tell people they need to save and spend at the same time!


----------



## Michiel (Aug 13, 2010)

Getting bored or frustrated by the same questions over and over again seems the price you pay as an experienced keeper. It is way too easy to adress people that express these frustrations as "holier than thou take" etc etc. We will have talk with you in a few years and see what you think about it then
Like some one else said: we where all noobs at one point. I, as a naturally impatient person (that is why I am not a good noob mentor), tend to forget that from time to time, and this sometimes results in grumpy remarks from me  Now I try to remember not to respond to "Yo, what should I feedz my emp, prolly mealwurms", but sometimes I just can't stop myself from making a smart ass remark. 

What is truly remarkable is that some people can't seen to find ANYTHING and ask a bazillion questions, while a quick look on Google yields more info than they could probably handle..:Or people that post the same question as posted three threads down on the board. 
Because of these kind of frustrations built up over the past years, I wanted to leave here and I even asked the mods to remove my account here, which obviously never happened 
I also miss some people I used to learn a lot from, but I decided to stick around and I try to remember not to react to things that frustrate me. But, as a human that makes mistakes, I am not always succesfull. 

We must not get to sentimental about it. Everything is always in motion and things change, we may not like this, but we can't change this the way we like. So, in the end, I'll stay I member here, and I only answer questions when I feel like answering them. We must train the noobs to be more selfsupportive and think for themselves. Learning does not automatically mean depositing theoretical knowlegde inside someones head 

cheers, Michiel


----------



## KUJordan (Aug 13, 2010)

Case in point:
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=187860
C'mon now...

I wasn't trying to say that everyone here now is a noob or asks stupid questions.  It just became very apparent to me how quickly the boards stopped advancing.  It has been somewhat disheartening.  I'm sure it is cyclic and it will pick back up again...

As opposed to getting bored, I think maybe a lot of older members got burnt out.  And not jokingly, I do think the economy probably does have something to do with it.


----------



## recluse (Aug 13, 2010)

Im still around and very much in the hobby. I do have to admit that this forum does not provide as much info. for me that I needed when I first started out in the hobby. Times change, peoples lives change, and yes those who have more knowledge than the average bear do most of their research outside this forum. I still like to look at the classifieds and interact but I was never that social anyway hence the name "recluse", my user name wasn't chosen for L. reclusa.


----------



## BAM1082 (Aug 13, 2010)

Why not have sub-forums within the scorpion forum.... 

Like : 
*Basic Questions ... Newbie questions

*Photo Identification

*Help! It wasn't like this yesterday now?! OMG

*General Discussion 

I’ve only been on here a little while, but I find some of the more interesting stuff gets pushed back by a lot of the same repeat questions.... having a sub forum to "filter" stuff out would be good. 

Bam


----------



## Nomadinexile (Aug 13, 2010)

You asked for thoughts, so here are mine...

I try to add when I have something to say.   I don't want to fill up space with drivel though.  I broke my camera hiking and taking scorpion pictures, so now I'm saving up for an awesome video camera with night vision and an 8mp still and an importing license.   

I need to get my finances in order.    I need to get a camera.  And I need to get some nice terrariums going.   After that, you will see and hear a lot more from me.   In the mean time, I will mostly be trying to help newbies who come on long.   

For me right now, it is the economy, or should I say my economy.   Then again, I'm no expert, and it's not like I've been here forever either.   But I will have a lot more information to provide in the future.   I will be a lot more interesting.

We do need more people stepping it up.    I'm going to try and foster that to the best of my ability, but you can help more from the sound of it.   

Change is the only constant, but only we can make things better.   We can talk about how things were, or we can make it better.    I don't have time these days to look back.   So I'm putting on horse blinders and charging ahead.   Join me?


----------



## snappleWhiteTea (Aug 13, 2010)

BAM1082 said:


> Why not have sub-forums within the scorpion forum....
> 
> Like :
> *Basic Questions ... Newbie questions
> ...


this is a good idea. it think an area with only P.imperator would clean things up quite a bit.

stickys could really clean stuff up also. like FAQs about emperors would have a stickied, caresheets etc.


----------



## H. laoticus (Aug 13, 2010)

I think there should be an "advanced" subsection, not a noobie subsection.  This is because I doubt noobs will stop posting in the "Scorpions in General" section and I doubt they will find those subsections for noobs as they can't seem to find the Search function anyways.  

The Basic Questions to Scorpions placed above the Scorpions in General section may be a good idea.  Either way, I think moderation of new threads will help a lot.


----------



## snappleWhiteTea (Aug 14, 2010)

H. laoticus said:


> I think there should be an "advanced" subsection, not a noobie subsection.  This is because I doubt noobs will stop posting in the "Scorpions in General" section and I doubt they will find those subsections for noobs as they can't seem to find the Search function anyways.
> 
> The Basic Questions to Scorpions placed above the Scorpions in General section may be a good idea.  Either way, I think moderation of new threads will help a lot.


who would determine whats advanced?


----------



## H. laoticus (Aug 14, 2010)

snappleWhiteTea said:


> who would determine whats advanced?


I am guessing the mods, although they can get advice on that from the advanced members themselves.  There should be a sticky in that subsection informing members what should and shouldn't be posted (sometimes that doesn't work too well as we all know).  Any inappropriate or misplaced threads/posts will be moved to their appropriate locations or removed.
My hope is that noobs will glance over the subsection and just post in the main "scorpions in general section" while more experienced members will go to the specified subsection to converse with one another, make more advanced threads/posts, etc.  

Heck, the mods can filter out newcomers by the number of posts (although not the best method) in which members that have for instance about 100 or more posts can contribute while the rest (noobies) are limited to only being able to read/observe.  If they want "in", they can request access from the mods.  As for the experienced members who don't post very often, they can be given VIP access to the subsection by the moderators.  
Moderation is essential for this.  Feel free to expand on these ideas as they are still very basic and have qualities of elitism although that is not the goal.


----------



## Nomadinexile (Aug 14, 2010)

H. laoticus said:


> My hope is that noobs will glance over the subsection and just post in the main "scorpions in general section" while more experienced members will go to the specified subsection to converse with one another, make more advanced threads/posts, etc.
> 
> Heck, the mods can filter out newcomers by the number of posts (although not the best method) in which members that have for instance about 100 or more posts can contribute while the rest (noobies) are limited to only being able to read/observe.  If they want "in", they can request access from the mods.  As for the experienced members who don't post very often, they can be given VIP access to the subsection by the moderators.
> Moderation is essential for this.  Feel free to expand on these ideas as they are still very basic and have qualities of elitism although that is not the goal.


These are good ideas H.L.  

For the sake of debate, I want to elaborate a little though.   

1.   That's a lot of extra work for the mods I think.   This site works mostly on donation, and I can only assume that mods are volunteers.   They have their own arachnids, lives, jobs, girlfriends and boyfriends, husbands and wives, or kids.   Maybe I'm off base here, but I don't think we can or should rely on mods for everything.   I don't want modding here to become a chore, and the good ones we have here get frustrated or worse move on.   Again, I could be wrong about the time commitment needed etc., but there are diminishing returns at some point.   

2.   I don't think a newbie sub-forum is a bad idea.   I worry about it a little though on a couple of levels.   First being the obvious elitism which could frustrate new members.   Second being, that more advanced members might not go to the newbie sub-forum, and do we really want newbies answering newbies?   Thirdly, it would be really hard to decide.   There are new people here who are fairly advanced keepers.   And there are some people who have been around a while, who still aren't all that advanced.   How can you tell someone that has hundreds of scorpions and many breeding success' that they have to stay in the newbie forums?   Do they have to answer the same 2 questions over and over before we allow them into the club?   I think there is probably a workable solution, but I don't know what it is.   

The best I can come up with right now, would be something like this...

Your idea of the first sub-forum being first is really good.  
It could be the Emperor/Newbie/Mom gave birth what do I do?/Wish list~ sub-forum.   It could also have stickies for many basic questions.   Kind of a crash course so to speak.   After maybe 20 posts there (something reasonable for those that are new here but more advanced than some), AND, a short "test" of basic knowledge, then you could switch. 

Maybe that's too complicated or too much work for the mods.  I don't know.  Just trying to throw out some ideas I've though of along the way.   

I have often though that a newbie forum with the 10-20 most often asked questions would save me a lot of time.   I don't want to be rude to newbies, and I don't want to be elitist.   I was new once too.   Some of the problem is the search ability of some.   A list of stickies there with clear titles answered thoroughly would cut out a lot I think.   When you are a newbie, searching here is a little tough, especially when you aren't familiar with a lot of the terms etc.   That's why I think a big list of stickies would be good.   Heck, how to search here would be a good sticky too!   

There's my 2 more cents.


----------



## AzJohn (Aug 14, 2010)

I don't think anyone would need to be kept out. Really a gentel reminder of the subforums purpose and a reminder of were the thread should be posted should be enough. The mods might have to move a few threads but I can't see it being a whole lot more than 3 or 4 a week. Once people get the idea they'll figure things out on there own. Unfortunatly I'm not sure it will happen. Every other subforum wants the same thing. The tarantula folks have been asking of and on for a while.


----------



## neubii18 (Aug 14, 2010)

snapplewhitetea said:


> you could do the natural thing and just blame the economy lol. That's the easiest thing to do in a situation like this.


amen to that!


----------



## cacoseraph (Aug 15, 2010)

declining academic standards in america


when i was in schools i still scored 99 percentile when i took tests drunk, hadn't slept for days, etc

got (and still get) made fun or or at least teased for using three syllable words


most of the posters on AB are USA'ers

seems pretty straight forward to me =P


----------



## Offkillter (Aug 15, 2010)

cacoseraph said:


> declining academic standards in america
> 
> 
> when i was in schools i still scored 99 percentile when i took tests drunk, hadn't slept for days, etc
> ...


The world needs more people like you.:barf:


----------



## Redneck (Aug 15, 2010)

I sure wish I was here back in the day.. Back when there were more old timers... Ahh... What seems to be the good ole days...


----------



## JC (Aug 15, 2010)

I vote for noobie sub-forums.

Everyone is a noob at some point, having a separate forum for feeding/molting/husbandry issues would defiantly clear up make the reading experience easier for the experienced users.

There are two major changes at work here that are producing the quality results of the threads here :

1. Technological Advancement-

- Today practically everyone has _internet connection_. More people have access to forums. More people from *all* walks of life asking questions. 
- It is easier to order stuff on-line, thus cheaper to get a hold of a G.rosea or P. imperator. Most people entering petshops today buy stuff out of emotion not really caring what the animal needs or it's habits.
- Simple/incorrect care-sheets designed for simple people resulting in big problem down the road.


2. Cultural Change/Excess Wealth-

- The emerging American life-style has managed to turn this country into the international crap bucket. The things going on in the minds of the average youth today would make any grown man gag. 
- Today if you are in your teens and don't: have a girlfriend/boyfriend,drink,party regularly, wear name brand cloths, watch BS reality shows(The Jersey Shore?!? I would cut my wrists if I were forced to watch it), then you are considered gay,weird, crazy. and an outcast. So where is the motivation for future generations to sit down and read a book about arachnids(heck, or any science for that matter) when I will be ridiculed and laughed at by my friends and mainstream society? 

KUJordan, do you want to see a academic revival in this American forum? I say don't count on it. And in the meantime start learning some German and Japanese.

Oh and I blame the socialist governments in America.


----------



## J Morningstar (Aug 16, 2010)

cacoseraph said:


> declining academic standards in america
> 
> 
> when i was in schools i still scored 99 percentile when i took tests drunk, hadn't slept for days, etc
> ...


Funny enough, I see we went to a similar school, or at least addressed learning the same way...
After feeling the mental slime and disgust that the intellect of my classmates in high school left on me, kind of slough off as I escaped their influences, I realized the reason I was a freak was not my radical clothes or my alternative look but the fact that I wished to think and grow made me a bigger outcast than if I looked like Marylin Manson in Amishtown.


----------



## HepCatMoe (Aug 16, 2010)

us noobs still want to learn, and just because there are some tools out there doesnt mean we are all bad.  scorps in particular seem really hard to identify.  i have read that there are over 40 species in az, yet i have not found an "easy" field guide.

i have found a pretty good academic field guide, but i think i need a magnifying glass to use it.  in the mean time, it would be nice to know what species i have, and if somebody wanted to help me that would be great.

at some point in time everybody has to get their first scorpion.  also, dont reply to a doofy thread if you dont want to.  just reply to the threads that are interesting.  and if there are no interesting threads, then you should start one.


----------



## J Morningstar (Aug 16, 2010)

it's not so much that "doofy" threads anger us, it's that it is frustrating when someone does NOTHING before buying, sometimes a potentally deadly or perhaps in the wrong hands dangerous animal, with no other reasoning than....It was "Bad Ass, or "sick".......
These things are not only depressing, but makes us fear for the future of the hobby and our rights.


----------



## cacoseraph (Aug 16, 2010)

Offkillter said:


> The world needs more people like you.:barf:


bringing up school GPA's, competing in math and computer programming competitions, starting local bug groups?

yeah, i reckon it does


you don't have to believe me. look at intercountry standardized tests.  the USA gets WORKED!  you know who my main competition in school was? imports!  there was only ONE born and bred american that ever gave me any trouble.  there were like 6 chinese (yes, chinese, no i don't mean asian. i don't know why we had so many chinese.  just lucky i guess) that could give me a run for my money and one that was smarter.  damn you Xi Hou!


the USA is sorta famous for it's anti-academic sentiments in all the obligatory school levels


----------



## JC (Aug 16, 2010)

cacoseraph said:


> *damn you Xi Hou!*


lol. yeah they are good. Same experience in my school. Like I said, its all in the culture.


----------



## Offkillter (Aug 16, 2010)

cacoseraph said:


> bringing up school GPA's, competing in math and computer programming competitions, starting local bug groups?
> 
> yeah, i reckon it does
> 
> ...


Intelligence is something to be proud of and I agree it is under appreciated in this country ,but some of your statements make you come across as having a superiority complex. Being smart is important but sometimes acting your I.Q is more so.


----------



## AzJohn (Aug 17, 2010)

Offkillter said:


> Intelligence is something to be proud of and I agree it is under appreciated in this country ,but some of your statements make you come across as having a superiority complex. Being smart is important but sometimes acting your I.Q is more so.


I my opinion this part of what's driving away some of our more experienced keepers. Good info can be given, but if it's not nice enough or lacks sugar coating, people get upset. Instead of evaluating the content we would rather talk about tone and how someone comes across. We would rather be talked nice to by a fool than lectured by an expert. Some of the best info I've gotten on this sight has been from people who can get testy with noobs every now and then. When noobs get upset at corrections to there skills as a hobbiest it's there loss. For me even a rude remark that makes me a better hobbiest is appericated. When someone without any real experience lectures an expert about there tone or how they come across, well why bother.

Now I'm not advocating rude behavior by our experienced keepers. I don't see it happen all that much. I do see noobs get bent out of shape when corrected, much more often.

John


----------



## JC (Aug 17, 2010)

Offkillter said:


> Intelligence is something to be proud of and I agree it is under appreciated in this country ,but some of your statements make you come across as having a superiority complex. Being smart is important but sometimes acting your I.Q is more so.



I don't see anything egotistic about his post, only that it show some personality.

I don't mind having more cacos around!

*
{

   int caco, human;

   human = 6000000000;

   for (caco=1; caco < human; ++caco)

   printf("\n%d, cacos!\n", caco );

return 0; 
}*


----------



## Offkillter (Aug 17, 2010)

Personally I'm all for constructive criticism,but to degrade someone strictly based on his or her experience level is not what these boards should be about.Everyone can learn and it is in everyone's best interest they do.This is supposed to be a community of like minded individuals sharing knowledge and collective "experiences" .We all come here to be amongst our people, experienced or not there are no dumb questions only inpatient answers.The current noob like it or not is the future of "your" hobby,I for one would like to see it flourish in a respectable manner.


----------



## JC (Aug 17, 2010)

Offkillter said:


> I for one am all for constructive criticism,but to degrade someone strictly based on his or her experience is not what these boards should be about.Everyone can learn and it is in everyone's best interest they do.This is supposed to be a community of like minded individuals sharing knowledge and collective "experiences" .We all come here to be amongst our people, experienced or not there are no dumb questions only inpatient answers.The current noob like it or not is the future of "your" hobby,I for one would like to see it flourish in a respectable manner.


But, I also agree with you!


----------



## H. laoticus (Aug 17, 2010)

I'm not one to boast about my GPA or anything of the sort to showcase my intelligence, but I agree with the decline in academic standards.  It was extremely easy for me to get above a 4.0 gpa in high school.  I would literally sleep all day when I got home from school and go back 30 mins early the next day to do all of my homework before classes started.   The essays that were given 2 weeks in advance were done the night before.  This went on for all the 4 years of HS and it's not something I'm necessarily proud of as I have come to see what little numbers and letter grades mean.  I don't agree with GPA or IQ being a determinant of one's intelligence and defining intelligence in itself is a difficult task--not to mention school works for some and not for others, but that's a different matter.


----------



## Michiel (Aug 17, 2010)

H. laoticus said:


> I'm not one to boast about my GPA or anything of the sort to showcase my intelligence, but I agree with the decline in academic standards.  It was extremely easy for me to get above a 4.0 gpa in high school.  I would literally sleep all day when I got home from school and go back 30 mins early the next day to do all of my homework before classes started.   The essays that were given 2 weeks in advance were done the night before.  This went on for all the 4 years of HS and it's not something I'm necessarily proud of as I have come to see what little numbers and letter grades mean.  I don't agree with GPA or IQ being a determinant of one's intelligence and defining intelligence in itself is a difficult task--not to mention school works for some and not for others, but that's a different matter.


When we speak of IQ, in most cases we mean the cognitive IQ. IQ is divided into three "divisions": cognitive IQ, social IQ en emotional IQ. At least this division is used in Europe, don't know about the states.

The fact that you are able to reproduce litterally what you have learned is not necessarily intelligent, the fact that you can apply what you have learned in different situations, shows a level of intelligence.


----------



## H. laoticus (Aug 17, 2010)

Michiel said:


> When we speak of IQ, in most cases we mean the cognitive IQ. IQ is divided into three "divisions": cognitive IQ, social IQ en emotional IQ. At least this division is used in Europe, don't know about the states.
> 
> The fact that you are able to reproduce litterally what you have learned is not necessarily intelligent, the fact that you can apply what you have learned in different situations, shows a level of intelligence.


Yes, I will agree that the transfer and application of knowledge indeed shows intelligence.  That's not to the say the person him/herself is not intelligent if they do not perform in a certain area, such as posting worthwhile threads on arachnoboards.


----------



## racer 6 (Aug 17, 2010)

with all honesty, i approach my care for scorpions and tarantulas as scientifically and competently as i possibly can. yes i am quite short of experience, but i believe if everybody were passionate enough, nobody will have to worry about knowledge dying out.

which leads me to say: if the old dogs are as passionate as you say they were, they wouldn't have left. one log-in a month isn't half bad. re-posts would've been helpful too. ALL possible even with a drastic change of lifestyle and career. Hell, we need people who know, in order to spit out good crap ourselves, despite the effort researching; these things always start small.


----------



## Nomadinexile (Aug 17, 2010)

Offkillter said:


> Personally I'm all for constructive criticism,but to degrade someone strictly based on his or her experience level is not what these boards should be about.Everyone can learn and it is in everyone's best interest they do.This is supposed to be a community of like minded individuals sharing knowledge and collective "experiences" .We all come here to be amongst our people, experienced or not there are no dumb questions only inpatient answers.The current noob like it or not is the future of "your" hobby,I for one would like to see it flourish in a respectable manner.


I agree with you.   I have personally commented along the same lines since I've been here.   I don't think anyone here is degrading anyone, intentionally at least.  

There are some small issues here with the divide though.   "high end" threads are pushed down the pages, and are often hard to find, having to weed through repetitive basic threads, many of which could be answered by searching here or google.  I don't have a lot of room to talk really.   I've made some silly threads and didn't use the search function like I should have either.   It's a normal common beginner problem.   Some people are better at it, and some people are just smarter than me, but it should be expected. 
On the other hand, for people who are better at searching, and don't want to scroll and dig through masses of emp threads, you could be understanding as well.   There comes a time when it's frustrating answering the same questions over and over.   That's part of growing.   But at the same time, you want people to get the right answer, so you spend another 5 or 10 minutes answering a question you've answered 50 times!   

It is what it is.  I don't know if there is a workable solution or not, but I do understand both sides.   It is frustrating sometimes.   I want to be helpful, but if I could just help with a question once or twice, then have noobs have easy access to that, that would be better.   Doesn't mean I don't like noobs.   The opposite actually.   I want more of them.   But try and see both sides.


----------



## AzJohn (Aug 17, 2010)

The real problem isn't keeping noobs around. There will all ways be more. The problem I see is in keeping and maintaining our experienced hobbiest. There isn't as much here for someone with a lot of experience as there used to be. I think most experienced keepers are really only here to help others. I'd love to see better post, but until we have a better educated hobby we're stuck with noob post.

John


----------



## signinsimple (Aug 17, 2010)

Ironically enough, this post and how it is evolving (from it's origninal intent, to the bickering over people's assessment of their intelligence, to the mental masturbation about having subsections to segregate people, etc.) strikes me as a prime candidate for an example of why experienced hobbyists leave or are more silent these days.

Here's another potential explanation:  
- Exotic pet keeping used to be mostly in the realm of Nerd-lore
- Nerds, on average, are smarter than Non-nerds, and are generally more dedicated towards most of their pursuits
- That higher than average intelligence and dedication translates into more interesting posts on Webforums (also a medium of communication that used to be more popular in Nerd-culture)
- Exotic pet keeping is more and more popular these days so it's general demographic has expanded to include more and more Non-Nerds
.:More and more posts are less and less interesting


----------



## Michiel (Aug 18, 2010)

Most of the time, to me this forum is fairly boring because of all Pimp threads. But, if I liked pimpthreads, this would be heaven for me. I believe it was Joni Mitchell who sang: where some find paradise, others just come to harm. LOL

So, yes it is boring, but sometimes also interesting, because "noobs" can ask things that you cannot expect, and they have me thinking! That's great when that happens.....Noobs are always going to be here, experts probably not. Instead of all noobadjustments, subboards etc, just make on simple thread where more experienced keepers can ventilate their frustrations and is only accessible to the experienced keepers. 
In this way, the more experienced keepers can say what they want and how they want, without hurting the noobs feelings and ego's....
Because some of you noobs are acting like little spoiled princes and princesses that never heard the word "No" in their lives and never had feedback before. 

Experts are useless, as only noobs can become experts, but experts cannot become noobs....


----------



## H. laoticus (Aug 18, 2010)

Michiel said:


> Most of the time, to me this forum is fairly boring because of all Pimp threads. But, if I liked pimpthreads, this would be heaven for me. I believe it was Joni Mitchell who sang: where some find paradise, others just come to harm. LOL
> 
> So, yes it is boring, but sometimes also interesting, because "noobs" can ask things that you cannot expect, and they have me thinking! That's great when that happens.....Noobs are always going to be here, experts probably not. Instead of all noobadjustments, subboards etc, just make on simple thread where more experienced keepers can ventilate their frustrations and is only accessible to the experienced keepers.
> In this way, the more experienced keepers can say what they want and how they want, without hurting the noobs feelings and ego's....
> ...


that will be a very long thread hahaha
But seriously though, I think the idea of a subsection(s) is worth some consideration.  It can be related to research, article evaluations, breeding reports, etc.  It's not just about weaving out noobie posts, but organizing the many threads that pop up.  Many excellent threads get pushed away and are lost due to such a vast array of posts and reposts.  It's a shame that we always have to dig for them.  Shoot, there are already stickies for pictures and vids, why not one (or a few) for advanced or specific material?  I think it'd benefit this forum immensely.


----------



## Michiel (Aug 19, 2010)

I agree that would be a good idea. If you make a noobthread, or noobsubforum, there is a risk the experts won't go there (avoid it), and then noobs are advising noobs, that should not be the case.


----------



## telow (Aug 19, 2010)

man i miss those days and my collection :wall:
i do see a big change in the hobby now compared to then
as it was realy picking up back then and we were all more a like family
than a just another hobby we had new people asking simple stuff and we
didnt have to refer them to the older posts they looked for stuff
and didnt seem to be so lazy about it (sorry new guys) it was there
for a reason to be read and give info that they needed that we had to find out on our own with trial and errors and progress reports to eachother.
but we all went on to do other things i guess but even tho i dont have my collection anymore im still popping up places to try to help out 
the new guys but i stuck on venomlist more than anywhere else because
it was realy getting old seeing the same questions (my emp this or that)
then you read it and its like that same question has been answered 50 times
and alot of people didnt want to be broken records and lets not forget some people got dropped on there heads with prices and all it went nuts but they were kinda weeded out for that because we were all fair with eachother back then and that was how it was supposed to be we were all friends well most of us were hahahaha some of us had our differences for sure but not too bad
then the big economy problems happened and we lost alot of people and that sucks but also people starting familys like me and brianS and others
as well as people trying to better there life but going to collage or starting a career and we lost them as well but some will come back

if any of us that are the (i guess you can say pioneers haha) come around we should fix it back up and help out the new guys and teach them somethings we all already know and not avoid the stuff we know and just dont want to keep repeating but if anything we know what we know
and if we know what they dont and dont help them its not of any use to
know all these things if we wont pass it on so even tho i dont have my collection im still up for helping anyone that needs something i can help with

so for the new guys it would be easier to look back at some older posts
before posting any qusetions that may have been answered already
keeping the post count of the same questions over and over down
and the facts and answeres will be more known but thats just my thoughts


----------



## G. Carnell (Aug 20, 2010)

good old nostalgia threads 


the old days were indeed fun and good, i remember endless threads helping people to ID scorpions, people asking for different shots etc and everyone chiming in, was really good fun!


as you can see from my post count, i took full advantage of AB!

half the guys i knew from back then are busy with stuff or totally fallen off the internet (see Alex tietz/nazgul, he posted superb pics, and gave brilliant advice, no way of contacting him )


----------



## Michiel (Aug 22, 2010)

G. Carnell said:


> good old nostalgia threads
> 
> 
> the old days were indeed fun and good, i remember endless threads helping people to ID scorpions, people asking for different shots etc and everyone chiming in, was really good fun!
> ...


Nobody seems to know where he is, very strange.


----------



## saxman146 (Aug 22, 2010)

Everything about scorpions lately here has settled down a bit recently. Even the sellers that once gave us access to great species other than flatrocks and pimps are now gone. In particular, Botar. All of the sellers are now trending tarantulas. Even if they do have scorpions, they are always the normals. Babycurus, pandinus, vaejovis, deathstalkers, ect. I bored with these, really! With less access to other scorpions, there will be less questions since most of them have already been asked and answered ya know?


----------



## gromgrom (Aug 22, 2010)

saxman146 said:


> Everything about scorpions lately here has settled down a bit recently. Even the sellers that once gave us access to great species other than flatrocks and pimps are now gone. In particular, Botar. All of the sellers are now trending tarantulas. Even if they do have scorpions, they are always the normals. Babycurus, pandinus, vaejovis, deathstalkers, ect. I bored with these, really! With less access to other scorpions, there will be less questions since most of them have already been asked and answered ya know?


hey theres nothing wrong with babycurus or vaejovis! 

but yea, its pretty sad. i think when the economy stabilizes, we can get better imports, but its also up to ourselves to breed the more uncommon kinds and give them to each other. that's what im doing with these trilineus i acquired, as no one else in columbus has them, and i expect to make $0 on this brood. 

and heck, its about the money; more vendors will sell stuff that breeds easily or looks cool to attract new kids just to make a sale. especially in, yet again, this economy. 

or someone could be a pal and grab an importing license and nab us some goodies from the middle east and africa


----------



## NevularScorpion (Aug 23, 2010)

saxman146 said:


> Everything about scorpions lately here has settled down a bit recently. Even the sellers that once gave us access to great species other than flatrocks and pimps are now gone. In particular, Botar. All of the sellers are now trending tarantulas. Even if they do have scorpions, they are always the normals. Babycurus, pandinus, vaejovis, deathstalkers, ect. I bored with these, really! With less access to other scorpions, there will be less questions since most of them have already been asked and answered ya know?


don't worry I'm going to ask my dealer friend to import some H lepturus 

jk


----------



## NevularScorpion (Aug 23, 2010)

gromgrom said:


> hey theres nothing wrong with babycurus or vaejovis!
> 
> but yea, its pretty sad. i think when the economy stabilizes, we can get better imports, but its also up to ourselves to breed the more uncommon kinds and give them to each other. that's what im doing with these trilineus i acquired, as no one else in columbus has them, and i expect to make $0 on this brood.


more powers to you bro, 

The reason why I also want to breed rare scorps is not because to make a fortune out of them but to share it to my scorpion friends so that we can all study their husbandry and be able to have a stable wide variety of rare beautiful scorps here in the U.S. that you can buy for 10 bucks or less .


----------



## groovyspider (Aug 23, 2010)

i think this is also whats killing the joy... so what should be my first T, whats a good begginer T? ... ect after seeing that Q probably all day the old dinosaurs got tired of it and just decided to keep to them selves/ yeh iam a new guy to arachnoboards but not keeping Ts ive been keeping them since i was ten ive nevered had a large collection but iam fixing that got a big shipment comming in next month ( 4 g.pulchras, female h. longipes, a. babolusom i think ( curly hair is the common name) and it stink because the ones who pretty much knew everything are gone and alot of new people are missing out some act completly ignorant like they havent even heard of reading books or searching but there are some that legitally wanting to make an impact in the hobby. - anthony


----------



## cannabeast (Aug 24, 2010)

my thoughts are that you seem to have a fat head.  what happened is you left the new generation without any starting point. you and all your lame-ass friends.


----------



## groovyspider (Aug 24, 2010)

cannabeast said:


> my thoughts are that you seem to have a fat head.  what happened is you left the new generation without any starting point. you and all your lame-ass friends.


umm.. who was that directed at?


----------



## skinheaddave (Aug 24, 2010)

I know that by all rights I should have deleted/moved this thread .. but I think we'll let it stand since it has gone on so long.  I will comment from two positions.  The first is as an administrator on these boards for the past .. I don't know.  A lot of years.  The latter is as an "old fogie" who at least knows which end of the scorpion is pinchy and which is poiinty.

Firstly, to those who suggest subforums, stickies etc. to try to pull the wheat out from the chaff, push the chaff to somewhere else or just put up pointers indicating where the wheat might be among the chaff.  It has been done.  I tried the sticky thing a few years back.  It failed miserably.  We do have a set of links to FAQ type threads at the top .. yet that has done nothing to stem the flow of threads asking questions answered by those threads.  The separation of the tarantula section into chat and q&d is currently still going.  I don't know how effective it has been .. but I do know that it requires a huge amount of moderator input to keep it separated properly.  I tried once cracking down on off-topic banter.  That got a lot of flak from people of all experience levels.  Much worse than the constant background noise of people complaining about the excess of off topic banter (such as this thread, for example).  I'm not saying that it is a lost cause -- merely that the same old solutions just aren't going to cut it.  You're fighting human nature here .. and that is as close to the unstoppable force as I've ever seen.  I do have a couple ideas that might help .. but they require a fair bit of work and aren't to be undertaken lightly.  We'll see.

Now, some comments as someone who I think has stuff to share.  I would gladly spend hours typing out long and detailed replies to all topics I feel I am qualified to comment on.  If you want proof of that, go back a few years.  I have absolutely no problem sharing the knowledge.  I only really require one thing in return to make me feel that it is worthwhile and that I'm not just wasting my time.  It isn't credit.  I'm not after fawning newbs or the opportunity to brag about my education, endeavours or my status in the hobby (which, let's face it, is pretty much zilch right now).  The only thing I require is some evidence that someone out there is learning from my posts.  Just once after going through all the details involved in the proper ID of a specimen, for example, I'd like to see the next thread on the topic pop up and someone jump in with "I think we should start by looking at this feature" or even "I can't remember what we are supposed to be looking at, but I remember it was listed in a post somewhere .. anyone know where that post is?"  Alternately, after discussing the shortage of knowledge in an area or how there will always be a certain degree of uncertainty in some area, I'd like to see some of the mid-level people (been in the hobby for a bit, starting to answer questions) grasp those concepts and apply them to their own understanding.  That doesn't happen, though.  So I snipe.  I pick out the odd thread that seems to have some promise and will reply to it -- knowing full well that if I'm very, very lucky someone might pay a little attention and at least remember the answer .. if not necessarily how to derive it.  I'm always happy to see that some of the people with way more experience and knowledge than I have will do the same.  I am always saddened when their voice is ignored or the lesson goes unlearned ... even sometimes within the same thread.  I can't answer for all those with experience.  Certainly I think in a lot of cases there are just so few hours in the day.  Experience tends to come with age and certainly I have much fuller days now at 30 than I did in my early-mid 20s.   

This is not to say that the forum format doesn't have its purpose.  If you look it over, there are a lot of questions being asked and adequatly answered on a daily basis.  For those who want more, however, an advanced forum with restricted access isn't the solution (been tried, didn't work).  I would suggest perhaps if people wanted to create and submit some quality articles for our article section that might be a good way to go.  To date, most submissions have ranged from useless-->poor and haven't been accepted as a result.  If we develop a good library, however, and people start pointing to those articles, there is some hope there.  Also, I would suggest that if you want very detailed answers to very specific questions, you take it upon yourselves to gain access to the literature out there.  Online forums are not designed to replace peer reviewed journals.

Cheers,
Dave


----------



## cannabeast (Aug 24, 2010)

groovyspider said:


> umm.. who was that directed at?


was directed at original poster.  he comes off as an arrogant jerk complaining about why his expert scorpion friends left when he did, and there are only newb asking amateur questions that aren't worth his time.  don't think it was a very nice post. he could have used a much different selection of words. but he chose to be a prick. i like skinheaddave's response, especially the conclusion/closing statement.


----------



## Michiel (Aug 24, 2010)

cannabeast said:


> was directed at original poster.  he comes off as an arrogant jerk complaining about why his expert scorpion friends left when he did, and there are only newb asking amateur questions that aren't worth his time.  don't think it was a very nice post. he could have used a much different selection of words. but he chose to be a prick. i like skinheaddave's response, especially the conclusion/closing statement.


You could also choose a different selection of words to express your subjective interpretation of the post of the OP. Complaining, yes, arrogant jerk, or prick, no. Like you, everyone here has the same right to express his point of view, within the limits of what's decent of course.


----------



## redhourglass (Aug 24, 2010)

Hello all,

This is a good discussion with how AB and or other message boards evolved over the years.  I see where KUJordan is coming from respectively.

I've been here since the beginning and before AB there were the Scorpion-Enthusiast or ScorpionFans at yahoo groups and they were very popular !  Then the groups participation slowly fell off and it seemed message boards were popping up.  AB, ATS, Venom List became very common & filled in the void.

Some of the best threads (in my opinion) in the scorpion section over the last 8 years involved members like Eurypterid (Gary), Fusion121 (Oliver), Nazgul (Alex), Prymal ( Luc) and of course Eric and Dave.  There are others too.

Also, I can be found through email at my site so if any one has questions more so with taxonomy and characters with North American fauna I can be reached there or just post something on AB.  Always willing to help if I see appropriate to post or that hasn't been answered already.

All the best,

Sinc. Chad


----------



## Michiel (Aug 25, 2010)

The scorpion enthousiast group of Scott Stockwell, that brings back memories! The first times I surfed on the Internet, was on the pages of these groups. I remember printing the info at campus and reading it at home.


----------



## KUJordan (Aug 25, 2010)

cannabeast said:


> my thoughts are that you seem to have a fat head.  what happened is you left the new generation without any starting point. you and all your lame-ass friends.



Maybe we did leave the new generation with no starting point- but we didn't have one either.  If you weren't around then, I wouldn't expect you to know what I am talking about and the "change" that has been happening.  
As you can see, many here have noticed it as well.  I too was a noob at one time, but for some reason I understood that it would be beneficial for me to take some initiative and contribute to the hobby- whether it be obtaining and breeding certain species of scorpions that were rarely available or if it were doing the same with Latrodectus and ensuring that my efforts would supply the hobby with them.  

Turnover is not a bad thing at all, I am not suggesting that it is.  I know many guys and gals have no time to contribute like in the past, and my original post was simply an observation of what has happened since.  All the comments have certainly been very interesting to read.  I guess I didn't expect this volume of response, but heck...if it helps to change things then I guess I can't complain.

-Jordan


----------



## skinheaddave (Aug 25, 2010)

KUJordan said:


> Maybe we did leave the new generation with no starting point- but we didn't have one either.


Even if you consider the old ranks gone -- which isn't entirely true -- we left over 8 years of archived messages and a search function.  That isn't exactly nothing.  Take into account things like Chad's website, Eric's website *AND BOOK* etc. and it isn't like the new hobbyist is left swimming in a vacuum.  

Cheers,
Dave


----------



## Y-man (Aug 26, 2010)

*My Opinion*

I spent 13 years in the military "Army Special Operations", until a helicopter crash took me out of the business. The guys I worked with when I first joined had excellent motivation and dedication. After maybe the first 5 years I saw some of those guys leave and the ones that replaced them were a little less than what I was accustomed to. 5 years after that, I saw a lot of friends leave or die and the guys that replaced them were a little less again.

All of this made me a better leader. I had to learn how to re-motivate to a standard that we had before. I learned from the new guys stand point and put it towards my leadership style that made us all better as a whole. I also left my guys with a skills to continue what I started. 

My scorpion experience. I have well over 300 scorpions and have read every good book available. I always try to do my own research, and a lot of my google searches take me to AB. There are several instances that I have gone against what a care sheet has said, but I usually set up a few different enclosures and test my theories and ideas.

I have been collecting scorpions for a while now which started in Iraq, Afghanistan and others, and I am a little disappointed with the replies to posts that are on this website. I don't see why smart comments need to be made in order to put someone down or show that "mines bigger than yours" attitude. If the post is below you, don't respond. Someone else will come along and post the info needed.

There have been several instances where I have PM'd someone instead of posting to the thread. It's easier for me to talk to someone one on one instead of competing with others with too much or too little experience.

I would never put someone down for asking a question about their first scorpion. There was a time when you had your first scorpion and you probably had questions too. So again if the post is not good enough for you to answer, don't answer. Most posts that have been talked about before can be found in the search function, but maybe instead of saying "why don't you try the search function", why not give that person with zero experience a little more respect and give him key words to search for and point them in the right direction. I've used the search feature for things before, and came up empty. Maybe that Noob is 14 and doesn't think that far ahead. Maybe with the rude comments he won't post on here again, and I don't think any of us want that.

Some people that post, I love to hear what they have to say and what they have experienced. Others, I don't know why they waste there time with comments that are neither helpful or requested. It more or less just wastes everyone's time.

I'm not trying to step on toes or say I am better than you, but there is a better way to go about things when dealing with people that have little info but want to learn. Sorry if I rambled. I quit reading this post after the OP posted it. Having 5 pages worth of replies got my attention.

Just my $.02


----------



## Alakdan (Aug 26, 2010)

Here's my opinion on this matter. . .

Back in the day, available species for collection were somewhat limited.  My collection grew slowly, each purchase or trade I make required a lot of research and consideration.  Caresheets were mostly inaccurate.  Therefore, I had to exert effort to learn more about them so that my time and money will not go to waste.  There were some species that were being captive bred for the first time and there was so much opportunity to learn.  Everyone was still so excited whenever new species are acquired.

Then the hobby boomed . . . 

What used to be rare became common.  Species were available left and right.  Some noobs jumped the gun and just bought whole collections without taking the time to learn and appreciate each one.  

In the end they have limited relevant experience aring for them, some quickly gave up and re-sold their collection. 

Now there are noobs who have a lot of scorpions and just want all the answers fed to them immediately.  Eventually the old timers who went through the lengthy process of learning got tired from answering all the same questions.

The noobs should slow down and appreciate their specimens.  Don't rely on the care sheets and challenge the old techniques.  This should revive the interest and jumpstart the culture of learning rather than just collecting.

I still see some of the old timers in this forum.  Let's keep the hobby alive.


----------



## Michiel (Aug 26, 2010)

Y-man,

That was quite motivating!


----------



## KUJordan (Aug 26, 2010)

signinsimple said:


> Ironically enough, this post and how it is evolving (from it's origninal intent, to the bickering over people's assessment of their intelligence, to the mental masturbation about having subsections to segregate people, etc.) strikes me as a prime candidate for an example of why experienced hobbyists leave or are more silent these days.
> 
> Here's another potential explanation:
> - Exotic pet keeping used to be mostly in the realm of Nerd-lore
> ...


Genius, by the way. And I tend to feel that your evaluation is SPOT ON.

And this:



Michiel said:


> Now I try to remember not to respond to "Yo, what should I feedz my emp, prolly mealwurms", but sometimes I just can't stop myself from making a smart ass remark.


...absolutely cracked me up!  It was a very inappropriate time for me to read that post because I busted out laughing!

-Jordan, the OP


----------



## SNAFU (Aug 26, 2010)

I've been a member here a while and have never been a huge thread starter.  As has been stated, I too usually just lurk & surf rather than start a thread with a question that could be answered with a couple of mouse clicks.
 Search is an easy way to answer most of the repetitive questions that appear as is Google and without trying to sound snobby, I do wish more would use these functions at times. I'm sure I have asked my share of "duh" questions as an FNG.
 KU, I can relate to your opinion in part but maybe thats why I branched out and joined more forums. I still love my inverts but recently have started keeping corn snakes also.
I'm not here at AB's often but you can still find intelligent post's and info here and we still have "Guru"s on board (of which i'm not one). 
 I've found that a low post count does not always translate to inexperience, but maybe if you keep stopping by here, you'll eventually run across some of the old timers.


----------



## KUJordan (Aug 26, 2010)

SNAFU said:


> KU, I can relate to your opinion in part but maybe thats why I branched out and joined more forums. I still love my inverts but recently have started keeping corn snakes also.
> I've found that a low post count does not always translate to inexperience, but maybe if you keep stopping by here, you'll eventually run across some of the old timers.


I haven't been as active on AB as many others, you're correct, as you can see by my post count and the amount of years I've been a member here.  I was actually much more involved with VL (I was an admin) and very active there.  I still consider myself one of the originals (old timers) in that family of arachnoculturists.  The same has happened to venomlist.  AB is not the only forum to go through this, and so I have branched out a lot and was doing so with reptiles and field herping too.  Herpnation (fieldherpforum) is booming right now, like never before it is hard to keep up there.


----------



## H. laoticus (Aug 27, 2010)

Knowing the problem(s) isn't hard, but finding the solution(s) is.  It seems that one of the old problems was that there wasn't enough people interested in the hobby, but things have changed in which a small collection of dedicated hobbyists has been overrun by a vast array of newcomers.  Dave has pointed out that he's tried quite a few of them and unfortunately they have not worked.  Let's put our efforts together in constructing new ideas (or advancing the old ones) to hopefully accommodate this growing hobby.


----------



## cacoseraph (Aug 27, 2010)

Michiel said:


> The scorpion enthousiast group of Scott Stockwell, that brings back memories! The first times I surfed on the Internet, was on the pages of these groups. I remember printing the info at campus and reading it at home.


i still have some of my first hobby year print outs.  i would print them out at work and study the hell out of them.  i would spend hours scrounging for pdf's and get a rush as good (or better) as getting a new bug when i found a really useful paper.  i remember searching and hoping i would be the first to post a link to an awesome paper... and then seeing ppl get excited when they saw how nice it was, too.



i... don't see that happening with too many ppl these days.


----------



## Jaymz Bedell (Aug 27, 2010)

cacoseraph said:


> \  i would print them out at work and study the hell out of them.  i would spend hours scrounging for pdf's and get a rush as good (or better) as getting a new bug when i found a really useful paper.


I'm glad I'm not the only person that gets a rush when I find something like that! I STILL get a rush when i find something useful on a topic I'm researching. sometimes it's a bigger rush than getting the bugs themselves to be honest. a few months ago I lucked onto a great pdf about Heterothele and was on a research high for 3 or 4 days because of it.

on to the original topic, I've been a member here on and off since 2004, I've seen it change dramatically. I always knew life happens and people would come and go. there are still a few people around from when i first signed up, and there are some newer people making great contributions to our hobby. sadly there are a lot of new people that no matter how many times they're told to research a topic don't, and then add clutter and confusion with 500 posts on the same easily researched topics. then there are the people with very little practical experience that feel the need to try and answer any question at any cost, again contributing to the clutter and confusion. along with the "you're rude!" posts that don't take into account the lack of emotion and tone that the internet brings with it. I tend to be a to the point kind of person when it comes to working with animals. maybe it's because I've worked with them for such a large part of my life, I don't really know. I'm also the kind of person that researches until I've exhausted myself and found as much information as possible. I wish more people had my research ethic, but I know it's extremely unrealistic to expect that of anyone. I've noticed a lot of the newer and younger members seem to get defensive quickly and easily over a lot of things, even those things that would be considered helpful. I've always found it better to listen to the voice of experience, and that's taken me quite a long way in any hobby I've ventured into. it seems to me we've become a fast food society, we want what we want and we want it NOW. I've been guilty of that mentality myself a few times. the internet has made massive amounts of information available at the click of a mouse/touch pad, most topics can be researched with a simple google search that takes less time than opening up a new topic window. it's a sign of the changing times, and shows how fast they are actually changing. 

my biggest hope is that some of the newer hobbyists stick around and become well informed, and try to further our hobby. there will never be a shortage of new blood in this hobby, and thanks to forums like this one there will be a supply of good, relevant information around for awhile. it's just a matter of taking the time to research.


----------



## telow (Sep 15, 2010)

ok ok no fighting guys.
anyway

when i started keeping scorps i was 6 years old and iwas lucky my parents didnt care if i kept it or not and now 27 well thats a long time
i learned all on my own i didnt have a computer untill 1999 guys

my first was a c.hentzi which my brother and i found under our house

realy i learned alot on my own and when i got a computer i learned more
but i have more posts on other sites  mostly on vl but i never turned my back
im always up for questions no matter what they are even if its 
(whats this white stuff on my scorp) well poop is what it is.
but i will tell them if im asked no matter what it is

i dont have alot of time to post these days my son just started school 
the big K woo who haha and my daughter is in pre school now
so its tough on time but dave is right there is years of posts that can be read by anyone and should read(you may learn something new from old posts)

we are a loner hobby hahaha so we need to stick together i love scorps
and i like to see people new to them join here and other sites its a great hobby 

but thats all i can say for now im off to take my back meds im gonna be messed up haha i hate those things darn pills

so lets get together and bring this hobby back to its real potential
i just hate the greed some people have (no names) but that is a hobby speed bump


----------



## Canth (Sep 20, 2010)

Hey Jordan! And many others, long time no see! I guess I'm gonna address this since I'm kinda coming back into the swing of things lately

I started in this hobby at a really young age, I think I was 12 or 13 and my enthusiasm was almost unmatched; I had a sizable collection by the time i was 15. However High School hit me like a ton of bricks and I just kinda let it go :/  I'm 18 now and my collection is comprised of 3 tarantulas and a scorpion I honestly thought was dead for a year. (an S. mesaensis that I hadn't fed or watered in over a year popped out the other day and I tossed him a cricket, hardy little guys)

I'm a senior in HS right now and college is less than a year away, but I miss the bugs and this weekend I'm gonna go out and find some C. vittatus and S. heros ssp for old time's sake. Anyone have any spots I could hit up, that'd be great lol

Anyway, I think that it'll take a few of the old-timers out there, guys that I learned from and respected to get things back on track. Start some new projects maybe, do some write ups. Show the new guys why they started in this hobby in the first place, besides the shock factor of "I have a scorpion"

Get them to the level you feel comfortable having an intelligent discussion with. 

I think that's all I've got right now


----------



## Harlock (Sep 20, 2010)

I started out as a random newbie almost 2 years ago, and have hit a point where I've:
   -Submitted my first grant proposal for a study on inverts
   -Working on a survey of the distribution of some scorpions in a nearby area
   -Do outreach programs with my spiders and scorpions with my college
   -Work in a lab curating an invert collection and am in charge of keeping the live critters in good health
   -plan on going to grad school for medical entomology

Much of my starting knowledge came from this board, and I still use it as a place to find resources even if I rarely post.  You guys in the 'old guard' definitely helped set me on this path, so thanks guys, the detailed, informative posts are what made me want to learn more and more of this stuff.

In regards to what is available nowadays-it seems like a lot of new stuff is things that only come around once, and it is very rare someone manages to get a male and female, and successfully breeds them.


----------

