# Tanzanian Giant Pillbugs



## ftorres (Dec 11, 2006)

Hello All,
Hey Check out my new pillbugs.
These is the first time I see them in the States.
Enjoy the pics!!!!

	
	
		
		
	


	




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Email me at fjtorresvw@hotmail.com, if interested on them or with questions, or see my add in the For sale section.
regards
Happy Holidays!!!!
FT


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## Galapoheros (Dec 11, 2006)

ROCK!  Please let us know how long you end up keeping the ones you keep, alive.  I've been interested in these but I've only read one report from someone that said they didn't have any problems.  Many, many others say they can't keep them alive and can't really figure out why.  Or is this species easier to keep(?).  Nice pics.  They look like something to throw in a pot of hot oil and put on a plate:drool: .


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## P.jasonius (Dec 11, 2006)

The problem with these is that the bacteria that inhabit their digestive tract are killed due to temperature changes occurring during shipping.  
They will eat massive amounts and still, quite literally, starve to death because they can't break down anything they ingest without the beneficial bacteria.  I was considering doing some research with these, my hypothesis being that if termites were ingested by the millipede, perhaps some of their (the termite's) bacteria could be introduced to the millipede, thereby allowing for digestion.  
Great looking millipedes, though.  What supplier did you go through, I might have to start my research project.  Nice orange color.


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## Kevin_Davies (Dec 11, 2006)

These are very interesting, great pics also, I had no idea they were so rarely seen in the US, theyre fairly commonly seen for sale here in the UK and Europe, theyre Arthrosphaera cf. brandtii arent they?, Tanzanian Giant Pillbugs.


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## dtknow (Dec 11, 2006)

P.jasonius said:


> The problem with these is that the bacteria that inhabit their digestive tract are killed due to temperature changes occurring during shipping.
> They will eat massive amounts and still, quite literally, starve to death because they can't break down anything they ingest without the beneficial bacteria.  I was considering doing some research with these, my hypothesis being that if termites were ingested by the millipede, perhaps some of their (the termite's) bacteria could be introduced to the millipede, thereby allowing for digestion.
> Great looking millipedes, though.  What supplier did you go through, I might have to start my research project.  Nice orange color.


I wonder if you introduced termite poop or even mixed crushed termites in with the wood if the microbes in the termites would survive in the pill millipedes. You'd have to assume they use the same kind of microbes for the job though.


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## P.jasonius (Dec 11, 2006)

dtknow said:


> I wonder if you introduced termite poop or even mixed crushed termites in with the wood if the microbes in the termites would survive in the pill millipedes. You'd have to assume they use the same kind of microbes for the job though.


That's exactly what I was proposing.


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## Stylopidae (Dec 11, 2006)

P.jasonius said:


> That's exactly what I was proposing.


It might not work...actually I'm almost 90% certian it won't. E. coli is the bacteria that allows humans to break down the plantfood in our diet. It's very common in the lower portion of the digestive tract, and harmless in that part of the tract. However, if it gets into the upper portion of the GI tract..that's what we call food poisoning.

Either way, it's still worth a try. Let us know how it goes.


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## P.jasonius (Dec 12, 2006)

Some animals actually ingest their feces in order to replenish this bacteria, like rabbits even, for instance.  
I might have more success crushing up local millipedes than with termites, but I plan on having several different variations in this in order to (hopefully) achieve success.


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## Stylopidae (Dec 12, 2006)

P.jasonius said:


> Some animals actually ingest their feces in order to replenish this bacteria, like rabbits even, for instance.
> I might have more success crushing up local millipedes than with termites, but I plan on having several different variations in this in order to (hopefully) achieve success.



If you'd like to use Narceus americanus, let me know.

I'd use AGBs.


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## tikbalang (Dec 12, 2006)

nice looking pills. it's on my wish list.


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## spydrhunter1 (Dec 12, 2006)

There's a cockroach that lives in the forest here _Cryptocercus punctulatus_, that inhabits old decaying logs. The interesting thing about this cockroach is that the roach has symbiotic flora in it's gut to help with cellulose digestion like termites. Here's the interesting part, the nymphs do not have the flora and stay with the adults for several years, slowly getting the intestial flora from the adult's frass (droppings). I wonder if it would be possible to keep the millipedes and cockroaches together in a colony. The millipedes may pick up the flora the same way the roach nymphs do.


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## OneSickPuppy (Dec 13, 2006)

Wow jason ... you're leaving some good ideas across arachnoboards. If you are looking to do some serious research, catch me in an im or something. In the next few months, I might be willing to procure some to start experimenting on your theory with some controlled enviroments.


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## Wade (Dec 17, 2006)

Has it been established conclusively that the death of the gut fauna is the cause of death? Last I heard, this was a compelling hypothesis, but had not been proven. That's not to say exposing the millipedes to waste of other wood-eating animals is not worth trying, I had the same idea myself. Pretty much anything that feeds on wood must have a gut fauna to help with the digestion, so termites, bess beetles, other millipedes are all possibilities. Howver, I fear it may have already been tried and met with failue. 

I would also like to point out that it is the giant Madagascan species that always seems to die no matter what. The Africans have a much better survival rate, and although many die after export, those that don't often survive for several years.

Wade


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## J Morningstar (Dec 17, 2006)

I did try having them in numerous quantity mixed with other Millis from Tanzania.


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## Elytra and Antenna (Dec 17, 2006)

Wade said:


> I would also like to point out that it is the giant Madagascan species that always seems to die no matter what. The Africans have a much better survival rate, and although many die after export, those that don't often survive for several years.
> 
> Wade


You are the king :clap:  I was wondering if anyone would point out the discussion isn't related to the title animal and photo.


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## J Morningstar (Dec 18, 2006)

But the Orangeish pills in the photo are the ones from Tanzania, in Africa. I have had hundreds.....Literally. But of course Wade is right as well. I had a few live for years but none bred, eventually all died.


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## Wade (Dec 18, 2006)

That was my point, the Tanzanian ones (which may live even thrive)  in the photo were being discussed as if they were the same as the Madagascans (which are doomed). The discussion had turned to experimental keeping methods to see if they can be kept alive, but that's not needed with these.

Now, getting them to breed, however, is annother matter and certainly open to experimentation!

Wade


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## J Morningstar (Dec 18, 2006)

Wade I gotta tell ya .....
It is still experimental. Everything. I tried with over 200 specimens and yes I got some to live over 2 years and yes this may be their whole life span but to never witness a moult or little ones is quite frustrating. One piece of info tho..
My friends from Africa say the pill bugs are not from the rain forest but in all peoples yards and bushes and around any foudation so like our pills they may need much more "garbagey" conditions or a particular environment then that of the forest millies.:?


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## Wade (Dec 18, 2006)

I agree that there's much to be learned, but the death of the gut fauna doesn't appear to the issue, especially if they're not tied to rotten detritus in the forest as you indicate. Experimentation is good, but not likely to be productive if it's aimed at solving the wrong problem.

Any way you can find out what type of bushes predominate in yards in Africa where these guys are collected? There might be a certain type of detritus they want. We might not have the exact same tree availble, but a related leaf litter might help. There might be a particular food that stimulates growth and breeding.

When I was in Costa Rica, there were these huge polydesmid millipedes that, according to a local naturalists I spoke to, depended on the husk of a fruit of a certain tree for food, and the tree in turn depended on the millipedes to help the seeds to germinate.

Wade


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## driver (Aug 8, 2007)

Does anyone know exactly what region these are collected in? have picture sof their natural habitat, or information regarding it? I'd be interested in reading further into the climate and so forth in their native region.

It seems like this a species which still has a long way to come in the hobby, and it interests me. I'd really like to take a shot at starting a handful of groups to experiment captive breeding with under some controlled conditions, but I'd need to start digging up some more detailed information before attempting to strike up a hypothesis as to the problems, and deciding upon my controls. 

I know there's a lot of people out there experimenting with this already, and it seems the success has still been low. Is anyone documenting the breeding experimentation anywhere? Does anyone know of and have contacts for anyone who has successfully bred this species?

Arthrosphaera cf. brandtii in particular...


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## J Morningstar (Aug 8, 2007)

Sorry I haver had over three hundred of these and they all die. But fom what my African friends tell me they are as common as the ones in our yards.


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## ftorres (Aug 9, 2007)

*Arthrosphaera cf. brandtii*

HEllo ALl,
Some of my Pill bugs are starting to die, specially the bigger one.
I have witness Pillbugs in premolt and I have seen and collected the old skin too.
so I have seen that much.
I have not seen any mating or egg laying or any babies.

I understant that these pillbugs are not native to Africa but India.
Please correct me if I am wrong.

We might never find the right conbination to be able to reproduce them.
Just like Xylorictes sp from Arizona, they are so common and you can collect by the 100s or more. But there has not been any records of a good breeding in captivity.
regards
ftorres

PS By the way I have lots available if anyone is interested on conducting an experiment.


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## millipeter (Aug 10, 2007)

Hi,
This species is native to Sri Lanka and was introduced to Tansania. I think it was the northeast, in a higher region like the usambara mountains.  So it’s  a quite adaptive species. I have kept this species for several years without any problems with one molt per year. This species was breed by one person here in germany (and it is not just a tale, there are real pics of 4mm juvenils and no native species). This species consumes large amounts of leaf litter and rotten wood (the white one is preferred) so you need a big layer of it to give them a choice what leaf  and wood in a rotten stadium they like. Also they need a supply of calcium to avoid problems with there exoskeleton which could turning soft. Also they like dead crickets sometimes. Conditions by the one who breed them (solaris) were 22/23°C, and there were great accumulations of fecalpellets in the substrate. He keeps them a bit dry (spraying only one time per week, but substrate was still moist to wet on the bottom of the tank. At temperatures about 22-24°C my ones were also very active on the surface.   

I don’t think that experiments with feeding other wood eating species will work and that the bacteria are not the main problems in keeping them. They die because the conditions in the country of origin before shipping (several weeks) and at the petdealer is very bad cause they starve and are then very weak when they arrive in our tanks at home. The weight of the animals is quite a good sign of health. There are drastice differences between individuals of nearly same size. Only take the heavy ones. 
The key to breed this species is probably changing of the climatic factors (dry  and rainy season) which leads to breeding (like in other millipedes species). Such experiments can only be make with healthy individuals.

I think this species is much better to keep than the madagascar species. These are often in a worse condition when they arrive and these species are probably more specialised in terms of food and temperatures. Some species mostly feed of  lichenic, fungi and moss and they have often high fluctuations of temperatures (day-night) in there habitats and some species are climbing and search only for food on the trees.


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## ftorres (Aug 11, 2007)

*Pill Bugs*

Hello,
MIllipeter thank you very much for the tips and all the info.

There you go everyone, there is hope for anyone who wants to keep and experiment with these guys.

So let me know if you need any to give them a try. New batch just arrived.

thanks
ftorres


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## Elytra and Antenna (Aug 12, 2007)

I have pictures of mating and molting but certainly not eggs or babies for this species.
 They are common around Amani, Usambara Mtns. Introduced.








ftorres said:


> Just like Xylorictes sp from Arizona, they are so common and you can collect by the 100s or more. But there has not been any records of a good breeding in captivity.


Actually it is possible and there are photos of L3 C.B. grubs in the rhino book update but they certainly are a pain.


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## driver (Aug 22, 2007)

I don't suppose you'd be able to point me in the right direction to speak with Solaris would you? I'd like to speak with someone who has had success in breeding these little guys. 

I am really interested in experimenting with these species, and have picked up a domain to setup a site on to document my research and experimentation as it comes along. Hopefully it can become a hub for those interested in experimental keeping of pillbugs to come together and share their collective findings in an effort to achieve better methods for the captive keeping and breeding of pills for those of us who can't simply step outside and catch them 'by the hundreds' 



millipeter said:


> Hi,
> This species is native to Sri Lanka and was introduced to Tansania. I think it was the northeast, in a higher region like the usambara mountains.  So it’s  a quite adaptive species. I have kept this species for several years without any problems with one molt per year. This species was breed by one person here in germany (and it is not just a tale, there are real pics of 4mm juvenils and no native species). This species consumes large amounts of leaf litter and rotten wood (the white one is preferred) so you need a big layer of it to give them a choice what leaf  and wood in a rotten stadium they like. Also they need a supply of calcium to avoid problems with there exoskeleton which could turning soft. Also they like dead crickets sometimes. Conditions by the one who breed them (solaris) were 22/23°C, and there were great accumulations of fecalpellets in the substrate. He keeps them a bit dry (spraying only one time per week, but substrate was still moist to wet on the bottom of the tank. At temperatures about 22-24°C my ones were also very active on the surface.
> 
> I don’t think that experiments with feeding other wood eating species will work and that the bacteria are not the main problems in keeping them. They die because the conditions in the country of origin before shipping (several weeks) and at the petdealer is very bad cause they starve and are then very weak when they arrive in our tanks at home. The weight of the animals is quite a good sign of health. There are drastice differences between individuals of nearly same size. Only take the heavy ones.
> ...


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## Elytra and Antenna (Aug 23, 2007)

driver said:


> I don't suppose you'd be able to point me in the right direction to speak with Solaris would you? I'd like to speak with someone who has had success in breeding these little guys.
> 
> I am really interested in experimenting with these species, and have picked up a domain to setup a site on to document my research and experimentation as it comes along. Hopefully it can become a hub for those interested in experimental keeping of pillbugs to come together and share their collective findings in an effort to achieve better methods for the captive keeping and breeding of pills for those of us who can't simply step outside and catch them 'by the hundreds'


A tip before you set up the site name: these are pill millipedes (pillbugs are a crutacean).


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