# Scolopendra sp. "Haiti" ???



## Kaos (Mar 7, 2005)

Hi!

Bought this on a show this weekend as Scolopendra sp. "Haiti". Anyone seen this before? Guess on sp? The coin in the pic. eguals a 2 cent euro-


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## Kaos (Mar 7, 2005)

Some more pictures:


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## Randolph XX() (Mar 7, 2005)

looks like morsitans to me


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## Ythier (Mar 8, 2005)

...to me too


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## Kaos (Mar 8, 2005)

Ok, is this know from Haiti? Or is that just bs? Anyone have a antenna  and terminal legs count for this spp? I counted 18 segments on the antenna and 5 segments on the terminal legs. 

If it is morsitans, will it get bigger? Also is it spinnerets for making spermweb i can see below the terminal legs?


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## Steven (Mar 8, 2005)

that's no Haitian and not a _sc.morsitans_


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## Kaos (Mar 8, 2005)

Steven said:
			
		

> that's no Haitian and not a _sc.morsitans_


Ok Steven. As you're the pede guru, what the f. is it then???


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## Jochen (Mar 8, 2005)

Ethmostigmus trigonopodus.

Jochen


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## Steven (Mar 8, 2005)

Jochen said:
			
		

> Ethmostigmus trigonopodus.
> 
> Jochen


same as our:
Tanz. Giant Yellow legs &
Tanz. Giant Blue legs then ?  :?   



don't ya just love common names


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## Jochen (Mar 8, 2005)

Ok,

we have:

Ethmostigmus trigonopodus "Tanzania Giant Yellow legs"
Ethmostigmus trigonopodus "Tanzania Blue legs"
Ethmostigmus trigonopodus "Tanzania Blue Ring legs"

And I am pretty sure about this.

I am not sure about the distribution. Many pedes are exported via Tanzania (especielly Dar-Es-Salam), but they can be collected in all coutries around Tanzania. Don't count too much on this!

Cheers Jochen


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## Kaos (Mar 8, 2005)

So my pede is a Ethmostigmus trigonopodus "Tanzania Blue Ring legs" then?


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## danread (Mar 8, 2005)

Jochen said:
			
		

> Ok,
> 
> we have:
> 
> ...



Thats a pretty major change in the hobby, i wonder how long the miss-labelling of _E. trigonopodus_ has been going on for, and how it happended in the first place? Do you have any idea what the "true" _S. morsitans_ looks like, and if it is even in the hobby or not?

Cheers,


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## Steven (Mar 8, 2005)

danread said:
			
		

> Thats a pretty major change in the hobby, i wonder how long the miss-labelling of _E. trigonopodus_ has been going on for, and how it happended in the first place? Do you have any idea what the "true" _S. morsitans_ looks like, and if it is even in the hobby or not?


Probarly cause the first importers of African centipedes didn't know what the sc. name was of the blue-ringed pedes they got,... and thought every big centipede is a Scolopendra,... and morsitans is as far as i know the "Holotype" (or how do ya call that ?) of the entire Scolopendra genus.

I just find it hilarious nobody ever took the time to examine the most common centipede in the market and even some authors just copy the whole misidentification  
 ;P     ;P


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## Jochen (Mar 8, 2005)

Most of the sources refer on Carl Sandefer, "The Giant Centipedes of the Genus Scolopendra". I have seen the picture of the "Scolopendra morsitans" in this little book and I think this is the first miss-labeling.

The reason is possibly the presence of ringed legs, a sign that is typical for some morphs of Scolopendra morsitans if we follow Attems. But Scolopendra morsitans has several color morphs - so this means allmost nothing. 



			
				danread said:
			
		

> Thats a pretty major change in the hobby, i wonder how long the miss-labelling of _E. trigonopodus_ has been going on for, and how it happended in the first place? Do you have any idea what the "true" _S. morsitans_ looks like, and if it is even in the hobby or not?


I cannot answer the last question. But I think that it is present - possibly as another mislabeled species...

Cheers Jochen

Btw. I expect that this will not be the last bigger change!


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## 423 (Mar 8, 2005)

So this is probably a Ethmostigmus trigonopodus too? It sure looks the same and it's from Tanzania.


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## 423 (Mar 8, 2005)

I found these pics, the 1st one says S. mortisans and the 2nd says Ethmostigmus trigonopodus. They are pretty alike.

http://homepage3.nifty.com/petspets/pede/centi/sco_morsitans1.htm
http://homepage3.nifty.com/petspets/pede/centi/e_trigonopodus1.html


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## Steven (Mar 8, 2005)

423 said:
			
		

> I found these pics, the 1st one says S. mortisans and the 2nd says Ethmostigmus trigonopodus. They are pretty alike.
> 
> http://homepage3.nifty.com/petspets/pede/centi/sco_morsitans1.htm
> http://homepage3.nifty.com/petspets/pede/centi/e_trigonopodus1.html



Like Jochen said above,... compare those to the pedes known as Tanz.Giant Yellowlegs


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## Kaos (Mar 8, 2005)

423 said:
			
		

> So this is probably a Ethmostigmus trigonopodus too? It sure looks the same and it's from Tanzania.


Yes, it sure looks the same. Did you buy that ins Sweden?


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## 423 (Mar 8, 2005)

Kaos said:
			
		

> Yes, it sure looks the same. Did you buy that ins Sweden?


Yup, from the place where you got your new A. australis. It looks like the S. morsitans on the pic from the japanese site, but I have no clue about ID:ing centipedes so I'm not even gonna try


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## Steven (Mar 8, 2005)

danread said:
			
		

> Do you have any idea what the "true" _S. morsitans_ looks like, and if it is even in the hobby or not?


I've got a clue,.. but aren't sure yet,...



			
				Jochen said:
			
		

> I cannot answer the last question. But I think that it is present - possibly as another mislabeled species...


I'll send ya some pictures of which i think could be sc.morsitans

will post them on these boards if i'm a bit more sure


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## Ythier (Mar 8, 2005)

What about the "morsitans" I sent you Steven ? :?


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## Kaos (Mar 9, 2005)

Kaos said:
			
		

> Also is it spinnerets for making spermweb i can see below the terminal legs?


Am I correct in this? Read on the web somewhere that you can see this on bigger spp. Is it a male????


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## Steven (Mar 9, 2005)

Kaos said:
			
		

> Am I correct in this? Read on the web somewhere that you can see this on bigger spp. Is it a male????


I think you're talking about the Coxopleuren ?

those are not spinnerets !


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## Kaos (Mar 9, 2005)

Ok, Steven. I'm much more of a scorpion guy :8o  Are there any other way to sex it? Any books on centipedes you would recommend? I'm considering getting some more, as they are impressing animals, but i would like to know a bit more first


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## Steven (Mar 9, 2005)

Kaos said:
			
		

> Are there any other way to sex it? Any books on centipedes you would recommend?


i think the differences between the sexes are specie-dependant,... and no,.. not many good books on centipedes these days


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## Kaos (Mar 9, 2005)

Ok, thanks. I'll look through old posts and see what i can learn form that.


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## Steven (Mar 9, 2005)

danread said:
			
		

> Do you have any idea what the "true" _S. morsitans_ looks like, and if it is even in the hobby or not?


Check the picture on top 

Azian morsitans ?

and this perhaps 

African morsitans ?


still not 100% sure,.. but maybe you don't have to search so far


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## J Morningstar (Mar 9, 2005)

So here are my three for the puzzle...What do you think I have here Steven?
I do apologize for the quality of the photos in advance.


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## danread (Mar 9, 2005)

If the headplate is below the first body segment in position (which it looks like it is), then they should be _E. trigonopodus_ "blue ring leg".


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## Steven (Mar 9, 2005)

yow J.   

i'm with Dan


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## danread (Mar 9, 2005)

Now when are we going to get an equally legendary picture of Steven holding one of his _S. gigantea_?


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## Androctonus_bic (Mar 9, 2005)

I want to see this legendary photo, (If you haven't any problem to put it here, Steven).

Thanks.


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## danread (Mar 9, 2005)

Androctonus_bic said:
			
		

> I want to see this legendary photo, (If you haven't any problem to put it here, Steven).
> 
> Thanks.



No, i don't think Steven has been holding his gigantea, he isn't that crazy...yet......


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## Steven (Mar 10, 2005)

danread said:
			
		

> No, i don't think Steven has been holding his gigantea, he isn't that crazy...yet......


i haven't had a cam YET


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## Elytra and Antenna (Mar 10, 2005)

Can you type up the source and paraphrase the description leading to your 'identification'?


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## Kaos (Mar 10, 2005)

There is a description of Ethmostigmus trigonopodus and lot's of other scolopendromorpha here: http://www.nhm-wien.ac.at/NHM/3Zoo/schi_sta.pdf

Now i only have to figure out some of the expressions used in ascosiation with identification of centipedes   :?


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## Steven (Mar 10, 2005)

MantidAssassins said:
			
		

> Can you type up the source and paraphrase the description leading to your 'identification'?


pag 114 of the link Kaos gave you,
you'll find the description of _Ethmostigmus trigonopodus_

pag 24 (with illustr. fig 39) of Scolopendromorpha (Attems "Tierreich")
gives you the description of _Scolopendra morsitans_


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## Elytra and Antenna (Mar 10, 2005)

Steven said:
			
		

> pag 114 of the link Kaos gave you,
> you'll find the description of _Ethmostigmus trigonopodus_
> 
> pag 24 (with illustr. fig 39) of Scolopendromorpha (Attems "Tierreich")
> gives you the description of _Scolopendra morsitans_


I have description information for S.mositans but possibly not as complete as yours so I am eager to learn what the descriptive difference you're citing for the animals from Tanzania. Exact reference to specific anatomical features is necessary (please offer more than a vague -'go look here'). Like you I find it important to know what the correct name is and would hate to trade one bad identification for another. 
The PDF file only opened to page 71. Is there a direct link to the page?
Thankyou.


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## Mark (Mar 10, 2005)

Hi, Orin
You can find this paper in the local library.
ATTEMS, CG von, 1930. Myriapoda 2. Scolopendromorpha. _Das Tierreich_, 54: 1-308.


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## Elytra and Antenna (Mar 10, 2005)

I am asking for reference to specific anatomical features as outlined in the literature nothing more, nothing less (the literature source request is for checking the specific details as descriptions can be read with bias). 
How do I explain it's not the best route to interpret and interpretation.


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## Steven (Mar 11, 2005)

MantidAssassins said:
			
		

> The PDF file only opened to page 71. Is there a direct link to the page?


Have you tried to read the page-numbering on the pages inside the PDF instead of the number of pages of the document itself ?


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## Elytra and Antenna (Mar 11, 2005)

Can you just answer the question?


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## Kaos (Mar 11, 2005)

MantidAssassins said:
			
		

> Can you just answer the question?


As far as i can see Steven has answered your question. Look on the page number he provided you with in the link i gave. The pdf fil is taken out of a paper with more pages, therefore the pdf page numbers don't match the page numbers in the document.


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## Kali (Mar 11, 2005)

i have ordered/owned more than one "hatian giant centipede", and i am curious how such a popular animal in availibility can be so mislabeled so consistently. :wall: 
I am trying to list my newest one on my permit form, and no one can agree on a name! The order form from the shop i order from didn't even have one listed, just the common name, which is strange in itself. 
So these theoretically come from tanzania instead?


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## Steven (Mar 11, 2005)

MantidAssassins said:
			
		

> Can you just answer the question?


If you're asking me to put the entire anatomical features of _Scolopendra morsitans_ you should know that i can't,...

why ?

let me quote yourself from an earlier discusion we had about the same subject in this old tread (sorry for bringing up old topics,...)



			
				MantidAssassins said:
			
		

> In the US it is illegal to post copyright material. I am sorry for assuming you knew that, if you didn't.


But i'll give you a simple key why the pede in the beginning of this tread isn't a _Scolopendra morsitans_
(also to be found on page 9 in "A Syopsis of the North American Centipedes of the Order Scolopendromorpha (Chilopoda) by R.M. Shelley":

_Cephalic plate overlapping first tergite_

wich i think is one of the keys that isn't visible on most pictures you'll find of the pede "known as morsitans" in the hobby.

i'm also curious where did you get the info of your description of the "Sc.morsitans" in your guide ?
reading your Bibliography i came across the guide of Sandefer and the synopsis of R.Shelly,... which both don't make notice of Sc.morsitans having 4 smooth basal antennae segments. the other sources in the Bibliography i'm not aware of,... so please clear this one out for me too.

thanx


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## Elytra and Antenna (Mar 11, 2005)

Steven said:
			
		

> If you're asking me to put the entire anatomical features of _Scolopendra morsitans_ you should know that i can't,...


 I asked for specific reference as to why you believe you have 'discovered' the correct identification. You are playing games. I'd prefer you play with yourself.


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## Elytra and Antenna (Mar 11, 2005)

Kristin Cullen said:
			
		

> i have ordered/owned more than one "hatian giant centipede", and i am curious how such a popular animal in availibility can be so mislabeled so consistently. :wall:
> I am trying to list my newest one on my permit form, and no one can agree on a name! The order form from the shop i order from didn't even have one listed, just the common name, which is strange in itself.
> So these theoretically come from tanzania instead?


There are different giant centipedes found in Haiti. S.morsitans is found in Haiti and Africa but yours may be S.alternans or possibly another species or genus. 
Maybe see if you are allowed to just put "Scolopendra sp."?


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## Steven (Mar 11, 2005)

MantidAssassins said:
			
		

> I asked for specific reference as to why you believe you have 'discovered' the correct identification. You are playing games. I'd prefer you play with yourself.


1st:
have i ever claimed that i've discovered something ?
NO

2nd:
ANSWER the question !




jeeeeeeeez what's your problem ?


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## 423 (Mar 13, 2005)

I have another question. I've got two of these pedes that looks the same except that I'm counting 16-17 antenae segments on one of them and 20 on the other. Is it normal for it to vary this much or are they different species or something?   
And a second thing, as you can see they have a miteproblem and I don't know how to get rid if it. Any tips?     :wall: It seems to be getting worse


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## danread (Mar 13, 2005)

Hi Jim,

I've had problems with these type of mites before. There are two options for getting rid of them. The cheaper method is to reduce the humidity in the enclosure by increasing the ventilation and drying out the substrate. i've found this to be very effective, although it takes a few weeks to kill off all of the mites. If you do this, make sure there is a waterbowl full of water available at all times, centipedes can dessicate very quickly. The other, more expensive, method is to keep the humidity in the enclosure reasonably high and buy some predatory _Hypoaspis_ mites from a garden centre or online. These are effective at eating the parasitic mites off the pede, and will then die out themselves.

Cheers,


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## 423 (Mar 13, 2005)

Thanks, I'll try the drying first and see if it works.


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## Steven (Mar 13, 2005)

423 said:
			
		

> I have another question. I've got two of these pedes that looks the same except that I'm counting 16-17 antenae segments on one of them and 20 on the other. Is it normal for it to vary this much or are they different species or something?


it can vary 1 or 2 segments,... but it can also be a case of segments lost during a fight or while getting stuck underneath a stone or something


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