# Latrodectus (Theridiidae) Picture Thread



## Kugellager

Here are a couple of pics of my fat female L. hesperus which at last count was up to 20 egg sacs since June 2002. Her abdomen is about 1 cm in diameter.

John
];')

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kugellager

Pic #2


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## jwb121377

Wow she is fat! Nice looking spider.


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## Tarantula

I take it her eggsacs werent very productive?  Or did you have a male to breed her with?


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## Kugellager

She came fertile when she was given to me by someone who collected her by their house. Though I did find a male widow in my coat closet a few months back. The males live only a month or two after their final  molt and usually don't eat.

All the egg sacs I have kept have been fertile and have hatched 100's of spiderlings.  I have a vial with 3 sacs in it now and 2 of the 3 have hatched.  I have noticed that when the egg sacs are nearing time to hatch, if I lightly mist the side of the vial the egg sac hatches with in one day.

I am allowing the older slings to consume the newer hatchlings with the idea of getting only a few adult spiders out of the group.  Most of slings that have hatched  I have let go back into the wild in various wild places away from people.

John
];')


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## Venom

Out of curiosity, what's the difference between L. hesperus and L. mactans ? Size ? Markings ?

Very nice spider btw !


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## Kugellager

From what I have read L.mactans generally has the hourglass as one whole marking while L.hesperus generally has it seperated into two triangles as in my pics.  

Also L.hesperus is confined to the western US while L.mactans is generally found in the eastern US.  

John
];')


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## Kugellager

Here are two pics of a juvenile L.hesperus I raised from an egg sac produced by the female in the previous pics.

John
];')

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kugellager

Pic 2 of juvenile L.hesperus.

John
];')


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## Kugellager

Here is a third pic after a molt yesterday...Its webbing up and about to scarf a cricket.

John
];')

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kugellager

Here is a pic of another Sub-adult L.hesperus I took in 2001.  This one was only two molts away from becoming a mature male.

John
];')


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## The_Phantom

Gorgeous, is that a widow ???


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## Kugellager

Yes they are all the same species....The slings/juvies have that pattern 'til they are mature.  The males keep this pattern but the females are the typical black color as in the first two pics.

John
];')


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## Tarantula Lover

*hmm*

so is L.hersperus some type of widow?


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## Wade

It's the western black widow.

There's a total of 5 widow species in the US:

L. hesperus (western black widow)
L. mactans (southern black widow)
L. variolus (northern black widow)
L. bishopi (red widow)
L. geometricus (brown widow)

The last is an introduced species that pretty much lives throughout the warmer parts of the world, the others are all native. The northern and southern are both fairly common where I live.

Wade


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## Kugellager

Here is a new pic of one of the above sub-adults molted out to a mature adult.

John
];')


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## That Guy

cool beans!

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kugellager

Spider Photo Rig


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## XOskeletonRED

Nice pic rig, Kug.

 I used to catch L. mactans all the time in North Carolina. I'm in North Ga now though and don't see them as often. I'll be out and about this year catching everything I can though. I mostly see females, but occasionally see males as well. I always catch wolf spiders in the basement though and the black and red locusts are common around me as well. The locusts usually end up as prey for my large gravid scorps though. They are really neat too!

adios,
edw.  =D


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## Kugellager

Her are some L. geometricus (Brown Widow/Florida) pics of a recently matured female I have raised from and egg sac that was given to me. 

John
];')

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kugellager

L. geometricus pic #2


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## Kugellager

L. geometricus pic #3


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## Kugellager

Here is a zoom of the spinnerets.

John


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## Kugellager

I need to take some new pics for this thread which has been languishing for some time.

John
];')


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## El Johano

Very nice pics! The "spider photo rig" is an interesting idea.


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## Kugellager

Figured I'd put this info here since this thread has alot of photos.

L. hesperus (western black widow) Western US and Canada(BC)
L. mactans (southern black widow) Southeastern US
L. variolus (northern black widow) Northeastern US
L. bishopi (red widow) Florida
L. geometricus (brown widow) Florida

You can find more info by using the search function(s).

John
];')


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## Kugellager

Here is a photo of L.hesperus molting

John
];')


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## mactans

Awesome pics, thanks for making a sticky for this one. Now if I would chill on the Invert spending and invest in a digicam then I would be able to show off my babies.


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## Iktomi

Alright, Kug.  Here are my pics.  And thanks for the info on the PM.


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## S_Hourglass

for those in question, here's a great widow identification site between the mactans and the hesperus:
http://www.uvm.edu/~rtbell/Widow.html


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## Kugellager

S_Hourglass said:
			
		

> for those in question, here's a great widow identification site between the mactans and the hesperus:
> http://www.uvm.edu/~rtbell/Widow.html


That link is nice and all but I have seen adult L.hesperus females look like just about all those examples...color patterns vary greatly within the same species and should not be used as the sole means for identification method to differentiate between two similar species.

John
];')


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## S_Hourglass

very true, although the dorsal and the ventral combined eliminate possibilities of one or the other sometimes.  You also have to remember, latrodectus are cross-bred between the different species, too, so that can make things even trickier.  The site I was linking was just for those who don't know much about the latrodectus, a way for them to get a generally clearer idea.  There are always exceptions to anything.


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## mactans

Eggsacs are the best known method of identifying Widows of North America. The variations on dorsal and ventral markings are amazing and sometimes bizarre. Get this I found a Black Widow yesterday, in my OWN backyard, with a swirly olive-colored abdomen with a complete  ventral red hourglass, and small dorsal markings resembling faint light red diamonds/tear drops, and the cephalothorax and legs are black as pitch. Never saw anything like it before. My prize Western Black Widow if that is indeed what it is.


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## Kugellager

S Hourglass,

I was aware of that I just wanted to point out that color at many times in inadequate for ID...especially where the ranges overlap.

John
];')


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## versus

those widows are great! Kugellager...


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## D4RK-3L3M3NT

Awesome Black Widows all around - but sometimes I get nervous just doing this!   

DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME KIDS!


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## Malhavoc's

why do you get nervus As a ctreature they are very shy and will more then likely run to the nearest dark crevus they can find, unless of course you are pinching them trying to rip their legs off or smushing them they will mroe then not bite you in those insadinses.


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## D4RK-3L3M3NT

Malhavoc's said:
			
		

> why do you get nervus As a ctreature they are very shy and will more then likely run to the nearest dark crevus they can find, unless of course you are pinching them trying to rip their legs off or smushing them they will mroe then not bite you in those insadinses.


Simply due to the toxicity of their venom.

Reactions: Clarification Please 1


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## gdfelas

*Can We Get Some More Latodectus Pics !!!!*

id like to see more L. enclosures. Or just cool pics. some new ones i know there are a bunch on here but only a few compared to T pics. Plus looking for ideas with my new widows.


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## swatc1h

ill post a webcam picture right after a eggsac pops-up for the first due to the fact she mated 4 days ago...


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## GQ.

Quite a collection you have going gdfelas.  Here is one of my little Latrodectus hesperus.  Purty little spiders!


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## swatc1h

Is that what i think it is? gdfelas on your pic post bottom right corner Nothern Widow?, shes pretty spotted from what i can see.


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## antoine

hi , 
I'm new here 
my widows pictures ....
excuse me , I'm french , my english is bad ... :8o 




















bye


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## swatc1h

> I wanted species of Latrodectus sp ( bishopi , mactans mexicanus , hesperus ...)


Try http://www.alber-page.ch.vu/ nice guy hell give you his friends email so have at it  if not you could translate with http://www.systransoft.com/.


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## swatc1h

White Widow
http://www.faunalabs.com/photos/a331ltpgal2/09a331ltp.jpg


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## Bastian Drolshagen

L. mactans mating


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## Bastian Drolshagen

Steatoda paykulliana


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## Bastian Drolshagen

Latrodectus tredecimguttatus


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## swatc1h

*Bishopi*

i was waiting so that ill catch her on the process of sheding but no luck with insomnia i fell asleep


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## Spider-man 2

This thread needs some more L. bishopi pics!


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## Steven

_Latrodectus geometricus_ (Frans Guyana)


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## Randolph XX()

Damn steven that's what i lost on my way home
i got L.tre, L.men, L.curvi, L.has, L.hes, L.m.mex from the show, and the geo just die when i get home


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## Steven

juvie _Latrodectus tredecimguttatus_


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## Schlyne

:drool: Steven, send some of those babies to the US.  :worship:


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## swatc1h

i agree but only time will tell!!! srry for the delay yo!!! they mated mwhahahaha tick tock tick tock


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## extrovertinvert

here is one I caught outside my house

Reactions: Like 1


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## JPD

Here are a few of mine to ad to the mix:

Reactions: Like 1


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## muddieclar

Cool PIC..Nice..Thats a Beauty


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## Kugellager

Awsome photos JPD. What camera are you using?

John
];')


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## Rob1985

mmm.....goodness!!!! I need one!!!!!!!!! Anyone wanna sell me one!!! I have yet to be succesful in finding one in my area!!! Sooo....yeah!!!!!!!! :drool:


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## JPD

> Awsome photos JPD. What camera are you using?


A Nikon Coolpix 5700.  It has been really decent so far.  I still don't know how to use anything but the macro settings.  I try to take decent pictures of the kids or indoor stuff without proper lighting and all goes to hell.
Oh...btw....do you have any L.bishopi?  I am getting 20 next week and was hoping, (if I end up with some males), that I might find someone with some females.  Just a thought.
And.....I heard it through the grapevine that someone may be getting some L.pallidus in August.  This prompted me to initiate contact with a friend in the middle east again and am trying to get him to send a few eggsacs.  I figured they would weather the trip well.


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## Kugellager

JPD said:
			
		

> Oh...btw....do you have any L.bishopi?


No I don't. 
My widow collection at the moment has trickled down to just two L.hesperus...which by the way seem to have some of the longer lifespans.  My L.geometricus lasted a little over a year and a half from egg to death...but then again L.geometricus is not from as harsh a habitat as my local L.hesperus are.

I need to collect some more L.hesperus.

John
];')


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## JPD

> I need to collect some more L.hesperus.


Where do you collect from locally?
When I lived in the Springs, I was totally oblivious to spiders so I never took advantage of T hunting in Pueblo or widow hunting.


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## Kugellager

JPD said:
			
		

> Where do you collect from locally?


They are all over the place here.  I have found 1 female and one male in my garage, one male in my coat closet.  Though for collecting' the Golden area is great...N Table Mesa in Golden is where we find alot...I also get quite a few from Co-workers who bring them in for me when they find them around their house. It seems they are more abundant during or just after drought years.

John
];')


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## Spider-man 2

Yes, Jason, get those L. pallidus, because....you know why.


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## BooYaKa

Yeah yeah...Here is my young female of L.hesperus. Now I have 2 adult females and somethin'bout 200 spiderlings. I hope that I can find male 

I wanna collect more species of latro but in my country it is impossible 
Some time ago friends had l.variolus and l.mactans but now here is only hesperus...


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## docxp

I've got the same problem as You Booyaka.


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## Christoph

.............


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## The Snark

*Mactans*

<<Also L.hesperus is confined to the western US while L.mactans is generally found in the eastern US.>>

Could you clarify something, please?

In southern California, the Mactans is by far the most predominant of the Latro. At the nature center I worked at all we could find were the Mactans. (We did a study on why the Latro tended to find their way to bathrooms)

In northern California, 300 miles north of San Francisco, I was able to find the occasional Mactans but far more common was the Geometricus. This Geo however was a very drab brown without any variations in it's coloration.

A peculiar bit of evolution. The Red Back spider of Australia, L Hasselti, another variation of the Latrodectus, which has red on it's back, is millions of years removed from it's relatives. In that both the Australian and American versions demonstrate identical traits, habitat preference and so forth, it seems that the Latrodectus is most likely one of the oldest arachnids in the world. To the best of my knowledge, of all the animals in Australia, only the Latrodectus is commonly found elsewhere.


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## JPD

> In northern California, 300 miles north of San Francisco, I was able to find the occasional Mactans but far more common was the Geometricus. This Geo however was a very drab brown without any variations in it's coloration.


This sounds like L.hesperus rather than L.geometricus.  It is fairly common to see L.hesperus sport a uniformly brown abdomen while L.geometricus of course carries somewhat of a pattern.
While L.geometricus has recently been documented in CA, I am fairly certain that it is still limited to So. Cal.



> In southern California, the Mactans is by far the most predominant of the Latro. At the nature center I worked at all we could find were the Mactans. (We did a study on why the Latro tended to find their way to bathrooms)


I think you are probably thinking of L.hesperus in So. Cal.  L.mactans range, last time I checked, doesn't extend that far West.


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## The Snark

I stand corrected. I /suspect/ that, and I am confessing my age here, that when I studied the Latro, the group wasn't quite as well identified. (35 years ago)

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## JPD

> I stand corrected. I /suspect/ that, and I am confessing my age here, that when I studied the Latro, the group wasn't quite as well identified. (35 years ago)


You may want to double check my info as well.  I am fairly certain but there is always room for error....I am basing my information on what I have read over the years.
Don't worry about the age thing.....I am pushing 40 so I am no spring chicken myself


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## The Snark

A hint for all you collectors out there, they are attracted to the smell of urine. When we went on our hunts the first places we would clean out were the porta pottys. Usually 5 to 10 in each (temporarily unused) potty. The next place they love to lurk is in holes in vertical banks. One day we got smart and dug an outhouse. Into the sides of the pit we dug dozens of holes 1 to 2 inches in diameter and 6 inches deep. The toilet erected over the pit was designed to tip over on it's back to access the pit. We then opened the toilet for public use. As chance would have it we had a fire in that area and several hundred firefighters partook of our convenience. 
After 3 weeks we tipped over the outhouse and collected a little over 100 Latros. 
The area where they thrive in such great numbers is along the foothills of the San Gabriel mountains north of Los Angeles. The area that they were most common was from the cities of La Canada to Irwindale. They range quite far into the cities themwelves, being found all over the Los Angeles basin.


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## Kugellager

Could be the moisture...Or...maybe it was just all the food availability...um...like...Flies perhaps...Spiders don't have noses 

John
];')


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## Steven




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## swatc1h

nice as always. ok i've purcased a dozen or more last december or so and ended up with 3 + females but knowing the males have short life span i've mated the fem's at a early stage sucks it's been awhile no eggsac no shed oh well next time i'll buy 1 dozen and hold off then buy another  i've kept the biggest one and gave the rest to a friend but before that i'll tell you this i've mated bishopi male with hesperus fem the trick i did was switched hesperus 2 bishopi web!!!.


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## swatc1h

ones i bred with diff specie but not this one only its own kind.


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## The Snark

Kugellager said:
			
		

> Could be the moisture...Or...maybe it was just all the food availability...um...like...Flies perhaps...Spiders don't have noses
> 
> John
> ];')


One researcher claimed to have found cells which resembled olfactory cells in the knees of the latro. I would really like to hear if anyone has heard of this or has any additional info.


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## Mistwalker

My L. mactans, which recently died:







I'll have to go find another one. Liked keeping her.


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## JPD

A few new pics....

L.pallidus

















And a fat L.tredecimguttatus


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## JPD

Here are a couple of pics of one of my L.tredecimguttatus females.  I have an all black specimen on the previous post and this represents my more colorful variety.


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## joe8421

lol
so dangeruous one!!!!
but....... nice looking


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## Sheri

JPD, those pics with the shadow in the background are tremendous!


Anyone else find the black (as in the widows that have black coloration as opposed to the other varities) widows incredibly hard to photograph with any success?


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## JPD

> JPD, those pics with the shadow in the background are tremendous!


Thanks Sheri.



> Anyone else find the black (as in the widows that have black coloration as opposed to the other varities) widows incredibly hard to photograph with any success?


Sometimes they can be tricky.  Usually, I take a whole buttload of photographs and get one or two worth keeping.


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## JPD

Here are a few more.

L.tredecimguttatus






L.curacaviensis












May have posted this L.mactans shot already but I like it alot so here it is again!


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## JPD

Oh and another L.pallidus....


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## Bastian Drolshagen

Latrodectus tredecimguttatus


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## RaZeDaHeLL666

These are my three female L. hesperus


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## David_F

*L. hesperus taking care of a cricket*


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## pwilfort

What kind is the California widow? I got bite 3 weeks ago by one and still have the brusing from it, i'm over all the pain and sickness from it. This is my 2nd time I been bite by these. I better not say where this one got me! LOL the first one got me on my hand but not this one. Of all the places it had to bite me there. !Let's just say the chest area! 
Penney


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## P. Novak

David_F said:
			
		

>


Oh wow, David F can i see that enlcosure? Looks like your keeping it in a tank or something, different from the Regular Enclosures.



Also is this statement true..... "Only the female Black Widow is venomous; males and juveniles are harmless.." ? I found it on here http://www.desertusa.com/july97/du_bwindow.html


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## David_F

demonhunter said:
			
		

> Oh wow, David F can i see that enlcosure? Looks like your keeping it in a tank or something, different from the Regular Enclosures.


I don't have any pics of the whole enclosure.  Nothing too impressive, really.  It's just a 2.5 gallon aquarium with a bit of peat moss/sand substrate and a piece of grapevine.  Probably a bit too big for one widow.  I know it's a pain in the butt to get in to feed her. 



> Also is this statement true..... "Only the female Black Widow is venomous; males and juveniles are harmless.." ? I found it on here http://www.desertusa.com/july97/du_bwindow.html


As far as I know that's true.  Hopefully someone who knows for sure will answer.


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## P. Novak

Oh alright, thanks! I finally caught a big female widow today!! =D im wondering what you guys feed it, since it hangs off the web, will it be able to catch the crix?


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## David_F

demonhunter said:
			
		

> Oh alright, thanks! I finally caught a big female widow today!! =D im wondering what you guys feed it, since it hangs off the web, will it be able to catch the crix?


Yeah, it will have no trouble taking crickets.  It's pretty fun to watch them catch bugs so just throw in a live cricket and enjoy the show.


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## P. Novak

THANKS DAVID F!


Are these Juvi L.hesperus? Do juvie L.hesperus have the hourglass mark? Im thinking they dont.


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## David_F

demonhunter said:
			
		

> THANKS DAVID F!
> 
> 
> Are these Juvi L.hesperus? Do juvie L.hesperus have the hourglass mark? Im thinking they dont.


Not sure what those are but I don't think they're L. hesperus.  Juvenile widows have an hourglass marking it's just not as well defined as on adults.  The coloration on small widows is also a lot different from the spiders in your pics.


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## surena

demonhunter said:
			
		

> THANKS DAVID F!
> 
> 
> Are these Juvi L.hesperus? Do juvie L.hesperus have the hourglass mark? Im thinking they dont.



Juvie L. hesperus have the hourglass. The spider in that picture does not look like a L. hesperus. Females only have the hourglass marking and are solid black, unlike L. mactans, that has the dotted spots.


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## Venom

Demonhunter....those look very much like Steatoda to me. I really don't believe those are any species of Latrodectus.


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## MizM

pwilfort said:
			
		

> What kind is the California widow? I got bite 3 weeks ago by one and still have the brusing from it, i'm over all the pain and sickness from it. This is my 2nd time I been bite by these. I better not say where this one got me! LOL the first one got me on my hand but not this one. Of all the places it had to bite me there. !Let's just say the chest area!
> Penney


Pen, we have both hesperus AND mactans here. I have a VERY difficult time telling them apart though. I'm sure the bite of both would give the same reaction. Unfortunately, in CA, if they are black and shiny, they are referred to as "black widows."


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## surena

MizM said:
			
		

> Pen, we have both hesperus AND mactans here. I have a VERY difficult time telling them apart though. I'm sure the bite of both would give the same reaction. Unfortunately, in CA, if they are black and shiny, they are referred to as "black widows."


The California widow would be L.hesperus.

Here are some pictures of both species (males and females) that I hope will clarify confusion. I also want to point something out between the two species. The L. mactans will play "dead" when felt threaten, whereas the L. hesperus don’t! 
I have not read anywhere about this kind of behavior, and it is something that I have noticed.

The first two pictures are  of a female L. mactan. You can see one the hourglass and at least one of the red dots. L. hesperus females don't have the red dot












The picture below is a picture of mature male L. mactans. You can still see the "dot" markings







The picture below is a picture of a female L. hesperus as you can see solid black







And at last the two pictures below are of a mature male L. hesperus


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## Tleilaxu

In the first pic is it playing dead?


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## surena

Tleilaxu said:
			
		

> In the first pic is it playing dead?


Yes she is


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## Tleilaxu

What a cutie.


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## P. Novak

Does anyone have any pictures of a juvie L.hesperus? I currently have only one female L.hesperus and i found a pretty big one a few days ago but it died prbly becuase of the stress.. and no its leaking some stuff after sitting in a cup for a couple of days...anyways heres a pic\





and heres some not so good pics of my female that is thriving...


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## P. Novak

Another Question, where do all of you have the most luck finding L.hesperus?


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## surena

demonhunter said:
			
		

> Another Question, where do all of you have the most luck finding L.hesperus?


Usually in damp dark areas. For example around the house water meters, under rocks, ect…


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## pwilfort

Thanks Terri,
There is a nest of them outside by our porch in the bush and I have seen the little brown one male and then i found him dead and she was spinning web on him so I guess she will have him for dins! She's nice and big now so I guess she will do a sac soon?
Penney


Pen, we have both hesperus AND mactans here. I have a VERY difficult time telling them apart though. I'm sure the bite of both would give the same reaction. Unfortunately, in CA, if they are black and shiny, they are referred to as "black widows."
__________________
Don't go to Arachnocon without your GENUINE Arachnopets T-Shirt!
No T lover should have to live without a GENUINE ArachnoPoster!

My bucket of photos.


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## pwilfort

Thanks surena for the info on them,
Penney


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## P. Novak

Thanks Surena!

Alright i cant figure out the dif, between L. mactans  and L.hesperus. Can someone tell...better yet show me?


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## ShadowSpectrum

demonhunter said:
			
		

> Thanks Surena!
> 
> Alright i cant figure out the dif, between L. mactans  and L.hesperus. Can someone tell...better yet show me?


Surena explains it here, don't know if you saw this already.


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## MizM

surena said:
			
		

> The California widow would be L.hesperus.


Actually, we DO have both. The article below states that they have been found in CA, and are found in all of our deserts. They've actually done quite well here in the high desert, the heat and humidity favor BOTH species.
http://bugguide.net/node/view/26336

I suppose I will have to get close enough to photograph them now (ugh) to demonstrate that we have mactans AND hesperus. I was hoping to avoid that, I usually just send them out to whomever wants thems and let THEM worry about which is which!  Californians are brought up to fear and hate them, I'm still not too fond of them, but WILL capture them to send to friends.

I too, have noticed that both species do the pretend death curl when bothered. If it weren't for that behavior, I would not be able to collect them at all as I've had a lifelong irrational fear of them!


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## surena

MizM said:
			
		

> Actually, we DO have both. The article below states that they have been found in CA, and are found in all of our deserts. They've actually done quite well here in the high desert, the heat and humidity favor BOTH species.
> http://bugguide.net/node/view/26336
> 
> I suppose I will have to get close enough to photograph them now (ugh) to demonstrate that we have mactans AND hesperus. I was hoping to avoid that, I usually just send them out to whomever wants thems and let THEM worry about which is which!  Californians are brought up to fear and hate them, I'm still not too fond of them, but WILL capture them to send to friends.
> 
> I too, have noticed that both species do the pretend death curl when bothered. If it weren't for that behavior, I would not be able to collect them at all as I've had a lifelong irrational fear of them!


I think you misunderstood my point. I didn't say that CA didn't have L. mactans. L. mactans are referred to as southern black widows even if they are found in the West, and L. hesperus are referred to Western black widow even if they are found in the South. I guess you could think of it as the "common name" that is used in the hobby. The link below shows that under the "species" category.
http://www.ext.vt.edu/pubs/entomology/444-422/444-422.html
Also HERE and HERE it shows were they are more common and therefore getting the "name" based on concentration.

As to your second point about the behavior, as I said, I have only noticed that in L. mactans and not L. hesperus, but you say that you have noticed in both?


----------



## pwilfort

Are there brown widows?  Yesterday I was picking some dead leaves off some plants when this tiny brown spider got onto my hand. it was just like a baby BW except it was all brown. It did have a marking under it's belly but it got off my hand so I couldn't get a picture. I have a few baby black widows just like it on some of the plants and they are black.
Penney


----------



## surena

pwilfort said:
			
		

> Are there brown widows?  Yesterday I was picking some dead leaves off some plants when this tiny brown spider got onto my hand. it was just like a baby BW except it was all brown. It did have a marking under it's belly but it got off my hand so I couldn't get a picture. I have a few baby black widows just like it on some of the plants and they are black.
> Penney



Hi Penny,
Yes there is such thing as brown widow. There are 5 species of widows in the US.

L. bishopi (red widow)
L. geometricus (brown widow)
L. hesperus (western  widow)
L. mactans (southern  widow)
L. variolus (northern  widow)


----------



## P. Novak

I got a urgent questinon..

My L.hesperus just laid a sac, im pretty sure she mated cause she is wc but if she wasnt can widows lay false sacs? how long will it take for them to hatch out?


----------



## surena

demonhunter said:
			
		

> I got a urgent questinon..
> 
> My L.hesperus just laid a sac, im pretty sure she mated cause she is wc but if she wasnt can widows lay false sacs? how long will it take for them to hatch out?


I've had over 30+ CB sacs and there weren’t any false sacs (of course I had mated my females and the ones that weren’t mated  didn't lay an eggsac). I'm not sure if it can happen with true spiders. Hatch out depends on temp. Usually about a month if kept at about 75 deg. You'll start noticing the sac getting dark as it gets close for the spiders to hatch out. Also keep the humidity at  60% or higher.


----------



## insect714

*L. geometricus in So. Cali*



			
				pwilfort said:
			
		

> Are there brown widows?  Yesterday I was picking some dead leaves off some plants when this tiny brown spider got onto my hand. it was just like a baby BW except it was all brown. It did have a marking under it's belly but it got off my hand so I couldn't get a picture. I have a few baby black widows just like it on some of the plants and they are black.
> Penney



As Surena pointed out there are  brown widows L. geometricus and yes we do have them here in So. Cali ( I am in Santa Ana) we have them all over our property.  I have actually been able to find more Browns than Blacks over the last year.

Jon   Insect


----------



## Insecto

Hello, maybe some one wants to trade L.mactans female in to this little guy

http://www.hlasek.com/argyroneta_aquatica_6913.html

he's name is argyroneta aquatica or underwater spider


----------



## ajlauer1984

*white widow*

i know this is a picture thread but i was very interested in obtaning one of these white widows(Latrodectus pallidus) does anyone know of a place in the states that they can be purchased from?? thanks for the help guys...


----------



## swatc1h

If you look closely one guy JPD has quite a impressive/pix sp. even the L. pallidus, awhile ago he was selling some. Try PM


----------



## surena

*L. mactans mature Female*





































*L. hesperus mature male*



















*L. hesperus mature female*


----------



## buthus

Surena interesting marking going on with that mactan (or is that more than one?).  I'd be interested in purchasing a couple of southerns with markings like that... preferably a subadult female and one gravid female from different bloodlines.  
Is the color correct?  I have run into a few redish, chocolate colored westerns, but not for a while.  My yard is full of westerns at the moment... probably a lot of in-breeding, but all are very dark and are healthy, with long life spans.  A few have full (almost perfect hour glasses) but most have seperated or even half hours.  Where do you get your westerns from?  And are you an expert enough to tell the two species apart?  I have traded for southerns before, but only assumed they were southerns based on the location of the seller.  
If you are interested in some new western blood, I am always happy to trade.

BTW... I skimmed the forum rules ...and will go back and read again, but if I'm breaking any with talk of trade or sales, please inform me and forgive.


----------



## P. Novak

Alright i need help, i have 4 egg sacs, all of them hatched out. The babies are a creamish color with a white abdomens, i have around 1000 L.hesperus babies, what do i feed them, and all the basic stuff like housing and when do i seperate them?


----------



## insect714

Well deamonhunter,  do you want that many?  BEcause if you don't the easy way to thin out the numbers is to let them do it on their own.  The slings will eat one another ( letting only the strong survive)  That is what I do when I have a mass hatch like that.  It lets you not have to worry about food and housing for a million spiders.  If you do want to keep them then you will need to place them into small ( 2oz) deli cups with a lil piece of a stick individually and fed them on flightless fruitflies.  Good Luck let us know if you need anymore help.

Jonathan Romero


----------



## P. Novak

Well i actually dont really want to keep them all, so ill just let nature take its course for a couple of days/weeks. Let the stronger ones live.


----------



## David_F

*Female Latrodectus variolus*


----------



## buthus

One of my western widows that I have been keeping.



















Hard to keep a track of her while taking the pic.  She came after me a couple of times once she figured out I wasn't food.
But, at first she thought she caught a feast.






You can see she is trying to wrap me up to snare me.






Then she turned around to investigate more closely.  Hey, thats no cricket...thats the jerkoff that stuck me in this glass cage!  She then came after me offensively and the next pic was off to the side and blury.  Like I said.. hard to truely keep a track of her while focusing!


----------



## Stylopidae

You got stones, my friend. I will give you that.


----------



## Venom

Good job on the photography Buthus, but man..that was STUPID.


----------



## Ian Snyder

*Care ?'s*

Can you tell me more about the care of these beautiful creatures.  This would be a big help


                        ian Snyder


----------



## buthus

Ian Snyder said:
			
		

> Can you tell me more about the care of these beautiful creatures.  This would be a big help
> 
> 
> ian Snyder


Hesperus and from what I understand mactans and geometricus are very easy to keep.  The first one I kept was already full grown and lived for over a year and a half in a sauce jar.  I kept another from hatchling that lived for almost 26 months. Most of mine have lived for 8 to 18 months.  I would suspect that genetics play the key role. 
I like to keep my "showcase" girls in 9'" x 3" glass enclosures that I make. Tops are wood framed with thin plexy tops... plenty of air holes and a 1" feeding hole that I cover with tape (or when I'm not lazy I cut the plastic threads from a bottle and glue it to the plexy for a nice cap.)  When I had a couple variolus I had a wood frame top and bottom with plastic screens for more ventilation because I was told that was needed for that specie.  The northerns I had didnt live much past 7 or 8 months, so I have more research to do for the next attempt at keeping them.

Feeding is easy ...just walk outside at night and catch something tasty.  Crickets, earwigs, moths, roaches, flys and even other spiders will be gladly excepted. Though, do take caution when feeding your widows Lyniphids, Steatoda Grossa and other spiders. If they make it through your widows web and are able to establish their own home base, they can kill the widow.  I have watched this happen with a couple old girls of mine.  I found it interesting to observe... you may not. Feeding them once a week seems to keep them plump and healthy, yet not to sluggish.  I don't document much, so I don't have any evidence regarding over feeding and lifespan.  They will feed 2 or more times a day if you allow them to. Hesperus slings will feed on each other, fruit flies, small crickets and will even gang up on larger prey. In the "wild", I often find young widows living directly over red ant highways feeding on the ants even as sub-adults.  I have fed a few slings exclusivly an ant diet and they grew up plump and healthy.     
Widows shouldn't require any additional H2O beyond what they get from their prey. Though, I have dropped water onto webs and have witnessed the spiders drinking. 

Males only live for a few months max so if you are going to mate them, do so soon after you find one or soon after it reaches maturity. Adult males do not eat.  They can be housed together with no aggression towards one another.  With Hesperus and likely most other species, males usually live after mating as long as they are not weak and/or they have enough space within the enclosure to flee from the female. If kept in the enclosure with a hungry female too long, they will surely end up as food. I have mated 4 females with one male ...he was a true stud..at least up until the 4th female snared him after mating and made a meal out of him. 

Anywho...I think they make great pets.  They scare the hell out of most people and I find that a plus!  
Just caught 2 in Page AZ... both found at the hotel I stayed at.  Plumping them up ...the boyz are waiting! I gathered them in the dark and I didn't notice that the second one I found was missing three legs... one front and both back legs! This was a surprise when I opened her up when I got home.  She can't feed on her own... because they need their hind legs to pull out webbing and wrap their prey.  It's actually funny to see her bobbing her abdomen while going through the motions, but not getting anywhere.  I've hand fed her twice already and she is looking healthy ...beautiful full hour glass.  I am curious to see if she will be able to mate ...most likely an easy date for the male, but will fail when its time to make an eggsac.


----------



## buthus

The bachelor pad.


----------



## buthus

LOL... ok bad info! 
First of all when I said that adult males do not eat ...I actually meant that they don't kill.  They are commonly observed eating leftovers from a female.  I have seen this and according to what I have read by Dr.Robert Breene III this is known to be common.  
But, I eat my shoe regarding the males not hunting and being non agressive towards one another.  I have kept males together for relatively short periods of time (1 week max) without cannibalism occuring.  In my "bachelor pad" (photo above) I have kept 4 males now for over a couple of weeks.  Tonight the largest male took out two of his housemates!  And he is enjoying his meal.  

Chewing mouthful of shoe. Sorry about the bad info.  Interesting lesson learned.
This boy is going to be a true stud...I can feel it!


----------



## buthus

One of these dayz i am going to get a good 1:1 macro lens so I can take some worthy pics.  But, until then, I'll have to settle with bad ones ...oh well.
Here's a female eating another female.


----------



## David_F

*Latrodectus variolus with eggsac*

The female L. variolus in my post above just constructed an eggsac on 3 July.  Here she is touching up the sac right after finishing it.


----------



## moricollins

Latrodectus hesperus, 0.0.1 sub-adult:


----------



## David_F

*Wild widows*

Went out this past Saturday with KUJordan and found a few widows with eggsacs.  One was even carrying an eggsac while her offspring hung out in a group below her.  Thought I'd show some pics of these awesome spiders in their natural habitat.  I'm not positive of the species...either mactans or variolus.  The dorsal abdominal markings made me think it could have been either.  We only got a good look at the ventral abdomen on one of the spiders found and it turned out she had almost no hourglass.

Female and spiderlings:






Closer pic of the group of spiderlings:






And the mother with her eggsac:


----------



## buthus

Mating the largest female hesperus I've ever seen with one of the largest males I have seen.  Hopefully the results will be good.  They could be bro and sis though.  Inbreeding could just negate my hopeful goals. 
Anyway...
He had all the right moves. :} 













She got p!ssed a few times with his attempts to wrap her up a bit.  



















I have a lot of young adult females and I can get some males ...all westerns.  If anyone here is interested in trade ...for southerns, browns, northerns..etc ...I am very interested.  Just shoot me a PM!


----------



## mackids

Great pics! two questions:
1. Can I see a pic of the enclosure you're using it looks interesting
2. Its hard to judge scale in that picture it looks huge I was just curious if you could hold up a ruler or something for reference.

thanks


----------



## buthus

mackids said:
			
		

> Great pics! two questions:
> 1. Can I see a pic of the enclosure you're using it looks interesting
> 2. Its hard to judge scale in that picture it looks huge I was just curious if you could hold up a ruler or something for reference.
> 
> thanks


Enclosure is just a glass box with a wooden framed top ...top is thin plexy.  The plexy has gotten brittle over the years and when i attempted to enlarge the feeding hole, it just broke ...thus the funky hole above her.  I use blue painters tape to cover the hole.  There is infact a wooden ruler in this enclosure ...am hoping once she settles in and constructs more webbing, I'll get a decent size comparison shot.  This girl is shy though and has not filled the enclosure with web like most do.  I was worried that the male wouldnt have enough of her webbing to do his ritual (which usually includes disconnecting the outer parameters of the web) and have an easy time getting beyond her reach.  But, looks like she was ready to mate, because he just moved right in within 5 minutes of his introduction.  She only complained when he wrapped her up too much otherwise she was ready and willing.


----------



## buthus

After mating I find it interesting to observe the truth to male and female cohabitation.  In nature I have observed males sticking around for weeks after mating.  I suspect that mating takes a lot out of them and since they are not the greatest web builders, they hang in there waiting for her to start hunting again.  
These pics are even more poorly lit then the ones above, but they reveal some interesting behavior.  

She caught the crick and pulled it up a ways and as soon as she left it to do a little structural reinforcment, he moved right in...












When she returned, he stood his ground ...even while she was wrapping the cricket up.  I suspect that some males loose their lives doing this, because all she has to do is snare a leg and he is doomed.


----------



## Splintercell

*Latrodectus ex Laos pics*

Hi@all,

Here are some pics of my Latrodectus ex Laos Female.
(there are more pics of her on an other tread I posted,
just look under "Laos")

Greetz,  Tom.


----------



## KUJordan

Here are a couple pics of one of my L. variolus subadult females.  I think they are the best looking American species, aside from L. bishopi.


----------



## JPD

nice pics......


----------



## Spider-man 2

latrodectusfan said:


> nice pics......


quiet you....


----------



## JPD

Spider-man 2 said:


> quiet you....


He he...I found that username while searching through members.  It said inactive so I decided to post once.  I don't think I should use it again, (Isn't that against the rules?)


----------



## Spider-man 2

JPD said:


> He he...I found that username while searching through members.  It said inactive so I decided to post once.  I don't think I should use it again, (Isn't that against the rules?)


Scott...please own him for me.  Now back to your regularly sceduled Latrodectus' pics.


----------



## buthus

Like I said, I have been finding some interesting widows this year.  Two males that do not look like the male hesperus I have found out here all these years.
The oddball fems are rare also.  I'm thinking there could be some mactan blood spoiling the pure hesperus line in my immediate area.   ...and, no, if this is actually the case, it wasn't me that did it.   

Found this one already as full adult.  She was in a strange place because she was using long grass to attach webbing to ...no not really a great clue, but the hesperus out here avoid plant matter like the plague.  Even though she has not molted since I got her, her red line has shortened (faded) with time,  It used to  extend to the top of her dorsal. ..It was a fading line, not a hard edged marking.  She is a nice chocolate brown ...99.9% of the hesperus I come across are black..if not jet black.   


























Missed the actual molt, but here is the result of one of my new  tredecimguttatus's final molt.(probably finale)  These are really cool.  They were shinny black like most black widows when I got them, but after molting they are flat black (and hairy like fine velvet) ...looks like someone sprayed them with black primer.  No markings left that I can see ...and NO hourglass. 
Crack of my arse theory ...where these are from (Mediterranean area, central Asia, Kazakhstan) and within the niche they fill, there is something that likes to eat things with red warning markings.  ..eh?  maybe. 

Bad lighting..but..


----------



## buthus

Mating project ...oddball hesperus (mactan?) female and an equally odd male.
Both have great markings.  I beleive that the female has gone through her ultimate instar but she still has very apparent dorsal markings.  Could be she has another molt, but she is already large.  If she is full grown, then she is surely the strangest hesperus I have found.  Again I question her bloodline.  She is similar to the brown abdomon hesperus I posted before, but has white markings and a longer dorsal line.  The male is equally strange.  Beautiful specimen...very dark and colorful, very large (1 3/8'' leg span) and a nice bulbous abdomon.   I've had him for over two months and collected him as a young adult ...so he is an old bugger.  He has taken food up to a couple weeks ago ...he had to be used soon, or his genes would be lost.  

I took over 200 images over a span of about 3 hours.  Usually in mating there is alot of back and forth, this was no different, but the female was very receptive overall.  He didn't waste very much time with web cutting, but he was really into bondage ("bridal veil").  Infact, more than any other mating I have watched, he wrapped her up a few times tight enough to make her panic and struggle to get free.  

Anyway... pics are not to good.  This enclosure is acrylic, so it reflects light badly ...along with my hand held lighting technique    ...going to have to improve my setup for documentation along with breaking down and buying a good macro lens.

Introduction 












Of course these are but a few pics of the event...

As always the beginnig is "cat and mouse"
























Foreplay finaly got her in a trance...







I missed the ultimate shot!  This is right before he pulled the first palp.  






Reading the meter or something ...idiot.  Missed him pulling his embolus out! 






You can see that is left palp is mutilated in this shot.






Lucky ...one more round to go! 






And finally after some good spastic fun...
The shots I was looking for.   ance: 




























































Love you, but got to run!  Its amazing how fast she will come out of her trance.


















Hanging around for conversation and a smoke.






Hanging back wondering if she will get something to eat.  I will feed her today.  Generaly the male will stick around and try and snag some food before looking for some more action.  Sounds like any kind of male don't it?  :Rockon:


----------



## Splintercell

*pic's of mating*

:clap:  @ Buthus.

I have to say,  
Realy amasing pictures.
Well done, thanks for sharing.

Greetz,  Tom.


----------



## Glen Southern

Fantastic images. I love the thread that shows all the containers you have made Buthus. I'd love to keep latrodectus but I am unsure how to source any over here in the UK. Does anyone know where I can get hold of any? I have a little False Widow and she's cute.

Cheers,


----------



## buthus

Splintercell, thanks.  I was up all night in a horrible mood sorting through my massive piles of computer stuff ...until I got the embolus shots!! Then I was happy as I can be.  Tough being a little manic... so little can pull you either way.  :evil:  




Glen Southern said:


> Fantastic images. I love the thread that shows all the containers you have made Buthus. I'd love to keep latrodectus but I am unsure how to source any over here in the UK. Does anyone know where I can get hold of any? I have a little False Widow and she's cute.
> 
> Cheers,


Thanks Glen.  Now... how do we get you some widows? UK laws restrict importing such "harmless" creatures??  If not, you should be able to connect with any number of European keepers and get some.  I think there is one close by on this thread   but I wont play match maker.  I could send you some hesperus ...we could work out some deal ...but shipping overseas can be a bit co$tly.


----------



## buthus

geo building her sac...



















I'm going to be up to my ears with geo sacs!  :?


----------



## Glen Southern

Thanks Buthus.

Your threads/posts have inspired me so much I am planning a big change in my spider room in the coming months. I am a sculpter (Digital and traditional) and I have had to try my hand at constructing some Latrodectus show cases as you have shown. I'm scultping a hunk of brickwork to fit into a three cell wide case. I'll post some shots at the weekend. 

The `local` contact PM'd me and with his help I may be able to get the required species. I have made contact with my local area authority about a DWA licence as all Latrodectus are listed on it in my area of the UK. Not sure what they mean about having the correct insurance though. I am not a retailer/supplier so I don't want to be forking out too much cash on additional insurance for a few little Latros....especially whan I could go out and get a 400lb Rotwieller and require virtually no paperwork...funny old world.


----------



## buthus

If I'm hogging this thread or posting to many pics in a post, just give me the heads up.  

Mactans slings "hatching"...



























































































:}


----------



## Splintercell

*pic's*

Hey buthus,

Keep going on with these pic's.
That's what the tread is about ;-)
Great pictures.:clap: 

Kind regards,


----------



## David_F

Great pics, buthus! 

Dark phase _L. geometricus_


----------



## KUJordan

Here's a big _L. variolus _that gave me some great slings.  I love the dorsal pattern retention of _variolus_:







A subadult _L. variolus_:







Here's a gorgeous _L. mactans _that DavidF and I found one day, then a few weeks later Matt (mechanical-mind) and I found again:







Here's another _mactans_, which I still have now a year later:


----------



## buthus

Got a good number of variolus slings from David.  Can't wait fo see some in their full adult glory!  Must start power feeding!  



hesperus with new and huge eggsac...






Collected this one in AZ.  Bred with local male ...she is ripe  and ready to give me her third sac...






L. tredecimguttatus...






L. tredecimguttatus... this one has been buiding herself a little pad with webbing and carcasses...






Beginning to think that the first tred has another molt ...just a theory, but it seems to me strange that she isn't displaying this "web lair" behavior.


----------



## Glen Southern

keep em coming. This has to be just about my favorite thread right now. I just can't wait to get my first Lactros next week. I've spent the whole week setting up my new tanks and all I need now are the spiders to go into it.


----------



## Splintercell

*Latrodectus menavodi*

Hi@all,

Here are some pic's of my L. menavodi.

Greetz,  Tom.


----------



## KUJordan

Tom- those menavodi are great looking!!!


----------



## Splintercell

*latro pic's*



KUJordan said:


> Tom- those menavodi are great looking!!!




Hi,

Thanks!
Also love your variolus pic's.

Greetz@all.


----------



## KUJordan

Here's one of my L. geometricus, who just recently made that big sac:







Here's a lat/vent pic of one of my L. variolus females- they are so striking!


----------



## buthus

Went through four males to get to this point ...3 died from shiping, but the fourth died happy!

Forgive the pic quality ...thank god for photoshop! These were dark and orange as all hell...plus was forced to shoot too hot of an ISO.  I was in a rush to get the boy into the encloser before he died too.  Metered badly, didnt correct K for house bulbs, used a mix of bulb brands and wasnt prepared to have to turn the enclosure around to get a shot of the act.  Oh hum. Macro lens I ordered is probably being delivered as I type this ...but f' it ...I got some pics.  

Made the decision to mate the female that constructed a web den.  The other has not and this has me thinking that she is either a weirdo, hasn't molted her final molt, or just isn't ready.  Power fed the females since I received them. Got the temp in the enclosure to around 78 deg F.  No science there...just choose a temp ...a guess ...a nice early summer evening in Israel ..maybe.  

Tred male dealt with things a bit differently then hesperus males do while prepairing the approach.  Hesps tend to knock down some of the females webbing while adding their own.  The tred male just ran around the entire enclosure webbing up the place ...he was totally happy frantic.  
He approahed the female with one sudden move.  Usually hesps will move in and out several or more times whether chased away or not. Surprised most by the fact that he displayed no "dance" nor could I observe any abdomen vibration.  I also did not see as much leg caress foreplay I have with hesps.  He did wrap her in a "bridal veil" but not overboard.  There was very little reaction from the female ...little movement and no sign of if/when she went into her mating trance.  
Of course non of this means jack squat.  One mating in an enclosure, fully lit with a dork with a camera 10 inches away can hardly be considered proof of specie behavior.      Nevertheless ...if she produces sacs, something must have been right. 





























































Realized I would not get anything from the front.  Had to turn the enclosure around and prop it up higher...in a hurry.  Couldn't really adjust the lighting much in the time I had ...the pics from the rear turned out even worse.  Also, shooting through her structure ...couldn't capture any of the kinky details.  This is like that blury, softcore stuff that never seems to get you there.   


















This is the moment right before she pulled him out of her den.  She moved so fast I missed the shot.  






For about 10 minutes she wrapped him up while his embolus was still inserted.  Talk about whips n' chains. :} 





































Dragged his corps back to her den ...he has been reduced to building materials.  Never observed feeding, but I had to crash this morning for a few hours, so I could have missed it.  

























It was satisfying ...had a smoke and crossed my fingers hoping for sacs.


----------



## Splintercell

*13guttatus pic's*

Hi,

here are some pic's of my 13guttatus female.

Greetz,  Tom.


----------



## buthus

You got any adult males??


----------



## Splintercell

*males*



buthus said:


> You got any adult males??


Hi Buthus,

At the moment not, sorry!

But I will have some in a couple of weeks  ;-)
I will keep you posted if you like.
If you like to check yourself, ask me:

tom.simons79@telenet.be

Greetz,  Tom.


----------



## buthus

Splintercell said:


> Hi Buthus,
> 
> At the moment not, sorry!
> 
> But I will have some in a couple of weeks  ;-)
> I will keep you posted if you like.
> If you like to check yourself, ask me:
> 
> tom.simons79@telenet.be
> 
> Greetz,  Tom.


lol ...sorry Tom, late night/early morn ...I was thinking out loud.


----------



## CaptainChaos

Damn those are nice, i need to get myself some Latrodectus


----------



## Splintercell

*lol*



buthus said:


> lol ...sorry Tom, late night/early morn ...I was thinking out loud.


If the females contractions start, I'll give you a call on your cellphone
so you can come to the hospital and pick some slings out  ;-)

Otherwise, early morning will do ;-)

Greetz,  Tom.


----------



## buthus

Out of the widows I've kept, browns are the most amazing hunters ...their speed and methods are absolutely athletic. Working on better lighting for video. 
Heres some final kill shots from a 2 cricket snatch...


















The old lady...






 tredecimguttatus


----------



## Glen Southern

Thought I might add to the Latro thread a little. A few shots of a _Latrodectus  menavodi _sling and an adult female.


----------



## Splintercell

*menavodi pics*

Wauw,

Very beautiful spiders Glen.
Awsome pictures, again :clap: 

Keep those beautifull pics comming Glen  ;-)
Nice work.

Greetz, Tom.


----------



## Kriegan

:drool: Ahh delicious eye candy for me!!


----------



## KUJordan

dang those are awesome!!  my favorite part of the menavodi is the one spot on the abdomen where there is a red AND white dot in the same place.  That's so cool.  Glen, those are some incredible pictures- like Tom said, keep them coming!!!


----------



## Gigas

Woah the back of the abdomen looks like an image of a falling blood droplet! Planning on breeding these too Glen?


----------



## KUJordan

just a few pics...

L. variolus adult female (wildcaught):






L. variolus mating pair:






L. hesperus, another pretty light colored one (sibling to my crazy creme colored one) from Greg:


----------



## Splintercell

*L. bishopi pic's*

Hi@all,

Finally I was able to get some L. bishopi slings.

I picked out the 5 "best"(???) pic's of a series of more that 200 shots.

I cant do better with my lil webam, sorry! :8o 
(I use a small webcam from the brand TRUST, 
called:  "Familyc@m 300 didital movie")
If you look it up at trust.com, you'll see what a <edit> thing that is
to work with.

Well,  here they are,   enjoy  

Greetz@all


----------



## Splintercell

*variolus pic's*

Hi@all,

Here are some pictures of my variolus spec.

Again a collection of the 5 best(?) pictures out of 200 shots.

PS: The first 3 pic's are females, the last 2 pic's are males.

Greetz@all,  Tom.


----------



## mackids

Female L.Variolus feeding on cricket.


----------



## LongDucDong




----------



## KUJordan

Here's my prized adult female L. variolus.  This is the one that I bred with the gigantic male I posted previously.  Three words- She is hott!


----------



## buthus

Wow!  She is truely a unique girl! 
Hope she produces some offspring that are a chip off the ol' block!


----------



## mackids

I second the above comment. She is a 'bute! the first image first appeared like a hellfire widow! 

hopefully her kids will be just as attractive


----------



## Glen Southern

KU: She certainly is a prize. I also thought it was an Ex. Laos at first glance. Some nice shots there.


----------



## Glen Southern

Some hesperus mating shots.

This first one was a none starter. An older male coming to the end of his time (I called him Bushy  ) and what I thought was a healthy female. He made all the right moves but no actual mating took place while I was in attendance. May be shy!.  However, less than a week later she produced an egg sac, almost certainly not his children given the time-scales. The following night I found her hanging dead in her own web. No idea why and  nothing to help me work it out. 







So, I was lucky enough to receive 2x fantastic Virgin hesperus adult females last week. I allowed them time to feed up and make a decent web. I then introduced Bushy to one of them and he performed for the cameras like an old pro. I am now going to retire him off to a nice tub in a warmer section of the cupboard and feed him loaded Crix till the end of his days.


----------



## KUJordan

Glen- those pics are insane!!


----------



## Gigas

KUJordan said:


> Glen- those pics are insane!!


Took the words right out of my mouth!

Those pics illustrate mating PERFECTLY Glen!


----------



## Scott C.

Holy crap dude! Nice pics!


----------



## LeilaNami

Wade said:


> It's the western black widow.
> 
> There's a total of 5 widow species in the US:
> 
> L. hesperus (western black widow)
> L. mactans (southern black widow)
> L. variolus (northern black widow)
> L. bishopi (red widow)
> L. geometricus (brown widow)
> 
> The last is an introduced species that pretty much lives throughout the warmer parts of the world, the others are all native. The northern and southern are both fairly common where I live.
> 
> Wade



don't forget the false widow


----------



## ShadowSpectrum

LeilaNami said:


> don't forget the false widow


You mean _Steatoda spp._? They don't belong on that list, because its a list of the true widow species (_Latrodectus spp._) in the US.


----------



## swatc1h

1 of 4 that molted this morning


----------



## Mechanical-Mind

_Latrodectus geometricus_:



















Best regards,
-Matt


----------



## KUJordan

Matt, I don't know why (so don't ask) but for some reason when I look at that third L. geo pic, I can't help but think of afros, bellbottoms, and discos.  

Those are some great pics though...those are different individuals in the pics, yes?


----------



## Mechanical-Mind

Heh, Very observant. Yes, the last pic is of a different spider than the first two.

Regards,
-Matt


----------



## Splintercell

*bishopi molting*

Hello,

Here a few (unsharp) pics of my bishopi molting.
I hope to have some better pic's soon.

Greetz@all,      Tom.


----------



## KUJordan

That's so cool how when the L. bishopi molt, they seem to have a crazy translucent pink quality to them.


----------



## Splintercell

*Latrodectus lilianae*

Hello@all,

Here are some pic's of my adult lilianae female.
She got adult just a week ago.

Greetz@all,     Tom.

PS: By the way, she is huge, more than 5 cm span.


----------



## KUJordan

Wow!  She definitely looks awesome!


----------



## buthus

Found this boy as a small juv.  Coming along nicely.


----------



## desertrat

How does one tell when a Latrodectus sp. has become an adult? I have several wc L. hesperus (best guess - in the CA high desert) but only one male - so how do I know when/which female to introduce him to?


----------



## Splintercell

*adulthood*

Well,

I suppose, laying an unfurtilised eggsac, 
is "one" of the signs of adulthood.
I mean: When you havent mated them, 
and the female lays an eggsac anyway, 
than she is adult. (IMO)  

This only happens sometimes, 
not all "new-adult" females lay unfertilised eggsacs. 
So this Tip isn't worth sooooo much, sorry.

Greetz,    Tom.


----------



## buthus

desertrat said:


> How does one tell when a Latrodectus sp. has become an adult? I have several wc L. hesperus (best guess - in the CA high desert) but only one male - so how do I know when/which female to introduce him to?


For fem hesps, I use a combination of size and loss of dorsal markings to determine if she has gone through final molt ...though this can lead to surprises.  
I have two local lines that I have started to breed.  One is rich black and very large.  These tend to loose 90 - 100% of their markings after the second to the last molt.  Their last molt is generally a size boost.  The other line is one that tends to retain some markings and richer colors after final molt.  These are harder for me to tell ...but again size is the clue for me.  Obviously, after final molt they become robust and ripe and they dont molt anymore ...thats really the best clue.  
Male hesps can be true guess work because they tend to very greatly in final size.  If you can get them to eat and become robust, then it can be easier to tell.  The male I posted above...I guess he has one more molt.  After his last molt he will stop eating and will loose body mass.  Mature hesp males abdomons tend to shrink rapidly and square off ...loosing most of their female-like characteristics they hold before final molt.  They will eat again after a long fast or after mating, but never seem to eat enough to fatten back up.


----------



## Splintercell

*Subadult Latrodectus revivensis pic's*

Hello@all,

Here are some pic's of my L. revivensis subadults.
The first is a male, all the others are females.

Greetz,  Tom.


----------



## buthus

Tom, do these mature to solid black? Mine have.


----------



## atrax_robustus!

i wanna feed spider but my mum doesnt let me   what will i do?


----------



## Gigas

Let it go?


----------



## desertrat

*L. Hesperus (to the best of my knowledge)*

I finally got around to taking some photos of my spiders. As far I know, they are all L. Hesperus, although I understand there may be some L. Mactans here in the Mojave desert. Enjoy!


----------



## KUJordan

Ahh, great hesperus shots!  I especially like the hourglass on the fourth spider down in your post.  Widows sure are cool, aren't they?


----------



## pandinus

interesting leg patterns on pic #6.


----------



## Rizzolo

*L. revivensis photos*

Splintercell, i like your L. revivensis shots.  i noticed that the female looks alot like the males in body shape, except of the palpal emboli - fat little body.  also, the females look short-legged.  is that just an illusion from the photos?  when they mature, do their legs get long like hesperus/mactans etc.?


----------



## Rizzolo

*KU Jordan's variolus*

Jordan, i am curious what happened with the variolus you posted in the pics on 11/12 - the one that looks like a hellfire widow.  is she gravid?  eggsacs?  i am dying to hear what happens with the offspring. 

good luck


----------



## desertrat

@Pandinus
I really like her coloration as well.  She's a juvenile and about half the size of the others, but there's nothing to show scale from one picture to the next.

@KUJordan
The two with the incomplete/separated hourglasses is what prompted the "best of my knowledge" remark. If I recall correctly, it's more typical of Mactans then Hesperus that the hourglass be incomplete or separated.


I'm getting ready to build a "real" enclosure for my girls (based on designs in Buthus' thread :clap: ) I'll post more pics when that project is complete.


cheers!
Rob


----------



## KUJordan

I don't think that identification of variolus, hesperus, and/or mactans depends as much on the completeness of the hourglass as much of the "shape" of what is there.  Variolus has two nice triangles, nearly always broken, and the more posterior triangle is slightly rounded.  Hesperus has either a very sharp whole hourglass with little rounding, but it can be slightly separated in some cases.  mactans, in my experience, is usually very sharp on the anterior portion of the hourglass, and very heavy and rounded on the posterior portion.  I still think that analysis of the markings on the rest of the body/abdomen is the best way to make a positive ID.  I'll make a thread someday and post a picture key of what I use to make ID's.

Rizzolo-  as far as that sweet variolus goes, she is extremely fat and is refusing food.  i watched her mate once and have put another male in with her, which she ate as well.  it seems like it is taking way too long though.  this is the same story with that light colored hesperus that i mated.  we'll just keep our fingers crossed...but i do have another bunch of variolus coming up from juvies that are ever bit as colorful as that nice adult i showed you all.  

take care.  i hope you all have a great christmas!  may you all get lots of new critters as gifts and post them here for all of us to see!


----------



## Rizzolo

*a latrodectus key*

KUJOrdan, i would love to see the beginning of that key to the us species (the black ones at least).  especially, a discussion of the "other markings" would be useful.  there are certainly a lot of pictures on this forum that blur the boundaries.  

also, i would love to hear others observations of the behaviors of the different species (differences) and specifics of housing each species.   i have noticed that, given enough space, the webs of the geometricus and bishopi widows are more like funnel webs, not strictly cobwebs like hesperus and mactans (variolus too as far as i can tell).  i would be curious to see more discussion from others about their observations in this regard and how they accomodate that in the design of housing.   i would love also to see pictures of them in their natural habitats.  this might give some insight into how they weave their webs and how best to house them most naturally.  Buthus seems to be onto something with little hide he has in his terrariums.  

i would be fun to see more pictures of the other black non-us species (as well as all others), showing several angles.  usually, when i see pictures, there are only shots of the dorsal side, not shots of dorsal, ventral, anterior and posterior, so you can get a good look at all the features.  

i am impressed with the depth of experience the people on this forum have with widows. i find myself cutting and pasting little bits of information from various posts to accumulate as much information as i can.  it is easy to accumulate more in depth information here than you are likely to find in most published material. 

just dreaming!  keep it up.


----------



## desertrat

*Widow Identification*

KUJordan,

Thanks for the inputs. I try to do my homework, but I also don't want to make id mistakes due to my inexperience. My bet is every widow I find here would be L. hesperus, but one never can tell. Especially in this town which has a fairly transient segment of the population, so you never know what kind of "hitchhikers" may come to town.

Here's a link to a Virginia Tech. website regarding identification of the U.S. Latro's. I don't vouch for the completeness nor accuracy, but at least it discusses all five species. It's not the site I've been trying to re-locate (which had drawings of Latro marking variations), but its a start.

My bet is Rizzolo is correct that there are folks on this (and other) boards that are at least as (and likely more) knowledgeable as other published entomologists.

Here's another link to widow identification.

The Venomlist also has some identification guidelines here. What I noted was that it says L. mactans has markings on the dorsal side above the spinnerets (as some of mine do). Maybe mine haven't matured yet or have vestigial juvenile markings.?

Regards.
Rob


----------



## KUJordan

Here's a Christmas L. menavodi!


----------



## mackids

*Merry Christmas to ME!*

My lovely girlfriend decided to build me a display shelf for all of my latrodecti this xmas! what a lady!


----------



## Rizzolo

*what is that thing?*

mackids,  what is that thing on the bottom shelf, second from the right?  a latrodectomizer?


----------



## mackids

Rizzolo said:


> mackids,  what is that thing on the bottom shelf, second from the right?  a latrodectomizer?


its a rigged incubator I made based on what I have seen on the boards. I used old hospital IV hoses and tube feeding pieces to create the plumbing. I have an egg sack in there currently - we'll see how it works


----------



## Rizzolo

*oh!*

i will have to check that out.  i will search for the thread. i have about 6 or 7 sacs in vials now, about to hatch i think. i have been letting the moms tend them until they turn really dark, and then i take them out for the last few days.  usually, i cut open the sac.  however, the yields have not all been great, so i am open to trying the incubator for after i take them out.

do you just let them hatch naturally then?  i was not sure about that.  do then need the mom to help them out?  or do they just get out by themselves when the time is right?:?


----------



## Rizzolo

*cool shelves BTW!*

mackids, that was nice of your significant other to make those.  they are great.  did she fabricate those from scratch?  you are a lucky guy.  my setups are more rube goldberg type contraptions.  the animals seem happy, but they are not much for viewing.


----------



## mackids

Rizzolo said:


> i will have to check that out.  i will search for the thread. i have about 6 or 7 sacs in vials now, about to hatch i think. i have been letting the moms tend them until they turn really dark, and then i take them out for the last few days.  usually, i cut open the sac.  however, the yields have not all been great, so i am open to trying the incubator for after i take them out.
> 
> do you just let them hatch naturally then?  i was not sure about that.  do then need the mom to help them out?  or do they just get out by themselves when the time is right?:?


To be honest this will be my first experience also. There are probably others on here with more experience in the breeding department. In the mean time I am just keeping the area at about 80 degrees with an injection of water through the plumbing every week. Also the eggsack was given to me by the Bug Museum I work at so it wasn't produced by any I tend to, therefore I do not know when they were seperated from the mother.

My GF made the wood part with the green back ground and yes she built it from scratch! The plastic containers I use are Beanie Baby containers with a few holes drilled into them.


----------



## buthus

Some new pics...
black morph tred slings (L.lugubris?) forced tweezer hatching.  Glad i did this, because I would have lost these like the first two sacs.  








L.v.





same girl a little older... almost there..








L.m.








L.p.
New enclosures coming.  trying to document these thru jar glass is a drag. 


















L.h.
I love how she won't let go of her new sac with her rear legs while eating. Primordial love or instinctive coveting...called it what you will.






One of my first true attempts in selective breeding.  Hesp from Arizona that had a nice brown abdomen but average size.  Bred with male found with my local giants.  This is one I've kept from that pairing.  She is larger than mom, but maintained the brown color.  No markings, just hershey chocolate.






I collected on the first of the year ...only the hardiest hesps are left.  There has been a good cold spell ...near or at freezing a couple of nights and weeks of sub 40s.  
I have great hopes for this gal.  Great color.






Found this Theridion(?) boy hiding from the cold in a dried leaf about 3 inches from where I found the above sub-adult hesp.   Looked high and low for a female.  No luck.  I need a female.  Any ID opinions?













Laos...
One of my boyz






This one is a molt older now... i need some new pics of her.
I call her Stubs.  During an early molt she had troubles with her rear leg.  She almost died, but i snipped her leg and hand fed her for a few molts otherwise she was not able to catch her prey.  Her leg looks bad, but it grew back and she can use it just fine now.  
I almost snuffed this one out...glad I didn't.  












an adult ..one or two molts away..


















another...
This one I used to test Laos hunting skills right after sling seperation.  I put a few slings in large (bulk size) pickle jars with some 1/4" hardware cloth (square mesh).  Two didnt catch food ...both turned out to be males after having to hand feed them...pathetic hunters when given too much space. But, this one caught her first pinhead and some flys on her own and then that was that...she made the entire jar hers and grew up there.  
Overall these Laos are turing out to be fantastic display animals.  Easy going...a little shy, but wonderful daytime hunters.












S.g.
This girl just hated being forced to pose on the grape stems ...stupid human.
But, she's a pretty gal 


















A.tepidariorum
I think these are cool display animals. They are little delicate version of the "widow".  The cold usually kills them, but I got lucky and saved this one a few months ago. Layed two sacs ...which made my day because even though they are very common, I have only caught/seen one male. 



















S.bipuncta
Enclosures are coming soon for most of my smaller gems.  You widow and other true spider keepers may find this silly, but for me, these are as cool to have as any the above.  Thrilled because the fem is giving me sacs and I have slings.  The adult males seem to be homebodies and MAY live as long as the females (trying to find more info regarding this).  The males web up almost as heavily as the females and they take prey twice their size.  Widow males are such wimps.  These boyz on the otherhand have big palps and actually act like it.   Had a male and female cohabing it for awhile, but I may not have fed them enough because one ate the other.  And get this...i found the male chewing down the larger female!   A little sweet revenge in the Theridiidae world.


----------



## Selenops

Man, those pictures were KILLER!

Looks like I got back into the hobby no sooner. I would love to see those L. revivensis you mentioned in the breeding thread.


----------



## buthus

Megalon said:


> Man, those pictures were KILLER!
> 
> Looks like I got back into the hobby no sooner. I would love to see those L. revivensis you mentioned in the breeding thread.


Thanks btw.  Its been a crash course.  Just starting to reep the benefits of my mistakes.   
As for the revs ...I am not necessarily sure if they are truely revivensis.  I need to find a good description. 

Go ahead... take your shot and ID these babes.  

I have some held-backs and a bunch of picky eaters. This one just ate to her hearts content.
Slings are very close if not the same as my new black tred slings ...though, I did not have a good lens back when the revs first hatched, so the few shots I have are poor to use for careful comparison against the tred slings.
BTW... the rev sack was very elongated.  But with only one sac to look at and the fact that even hesps now and then make irregular sacs, I can only use this as a weak clue.  Anyone with images of rev sac(s), please post or PM them to me.  
One of the juv/slings... 1/4in legspan give er take.    






Subs look interesting ...    This rev sub-adult still has much of its markings ...compared to the sub-adult treds. I got my treds one molt away from adult (I believe one may have molted twice) , so I cannot make a good comparison and my documentation was in the same state as i mentioned above.  The fragmentation of the dots was shared by the two. 












This adult was powerfed bigtime.  She is so ready.     Treds finale molt revealed heavy velvet hairs making them flat black also.  Body shape seems dead on too, but I have not given them a good side by side long looksy. 
Anyway...really beautiful spider. I will inbreed this one if I can raise some males (they are starting to show...very late bloomers) 



















Moving on...
Geo aging nicely!

Natures warning sign...






She and another were nice light silver adults and stayed that way until the last few months, during which they darkened like dipping them in chocolate.  
My experience with geos is limited to keeping a couple some time back.  They were earthy tan/grey...maybe a bit more olive and they retained markings throughout their adulthood.  They did darken some, but not to this xtreme. 

Has anyone kept the light silver goes which kept that tone into old age?


----------



## Selenops

I had some interesting things on L revivensis, about it's cobwebs, that they make a funnel or something and use dead plant litter and prey husks to camouflage themselves from predators. A blind if I understand correctly. Also, in high density populations in the arid wilds, females frequently migrate. But as far as a positive ID, that's tough. Big and black!

In these pics these subadults have white markings like L tredecimguttatus which the latter species derives it's scientific name from that fact -- 13 white markings before adulthood.


----------



## Splintercell

Megalon said:


> I had some interesting things on L revivensis, about it's cobwebs, that they make a funnel or something and use dead plant litter and prey husks to camouflage themselves from predators.QUOTE]
> 
> 
> Hello@all,
> 
> You are wright, they use debris and plants in the net.
> This is very similar to L. pallidus. L. pallidus does the same thing.
> Here some pic's of a pallidus web.
> 
> Greetz,  Tom.


----------



## Rizzolo

I like how you use the chicken wire.  i assume you did that to encourage them to build the funnel in a certain direction.  those pallidus pictures are awesome!  also, love the revivensis shots by buthus.  
my experience is that the mactans, variolus and bishopi (possibly hesperus also) build similar tube/funnel webs with remote retreats, but i have never seen them incorporate the debris.  the research article regarding pallidus and revivensis webs/debris (forgot the authors, but i think buthus posted a reference to it the other day) explored the use of the debris both for protection from heat and from predators (or was that two different articles?).  it seems odd that the other species have not developed this strategy, if it is for protection from predators, rather than from heat of the sun.  unless it is the behavior of that particular predator bird (shrike?) in the region of the pallidus and revivensis habitats that has given rise to this mechanism.   

i should've asked for a camera for christmas!


----------



## KUJordan

Here's some L. menavodi love- sorry for the bad pic quality.  Her plastic cube isn't the cleanest...



















you can see his embolus in this shot:


----------



## Rizzolo

KUJordan - that shot of the embolus unwound is amazing!   that is the first shot i have seen that shows that clearly.  nice work!  the male menovodi is pretty. i think that is the first shot i have seen of a male menovodi.


----------



## Selenops

I love these pics. According to that link I posted yesterday. L. pallidus and L. revivensis make a multi-layered silk funnel retreat. Good thing to keep in mind.

Here is that link, click here.

Important reference to include in such a sticky.

L. hesperus will utilize the environment for a retreat (i.e. a hole, a crack, any tight space it can retreat into or behind, etc.) or simply advantage itself behind plenty of irregular silk lines.


----------



## Rizzolo

Ahhhhhh.  Megalon, that was YOU that posted the link to the article.  that was weird, i had just read it the day before.  very interesting and illuminating.  there is another interesting one comparing the web construction of several families of spiders, including therididae (sp?), represented by Latrodectus.  i will try to come up with the link, but the one you reference was really more interesting.  Then to see those great pictures from Splintercell with the pallidus in the funnel was fantastic and timely.  

it is only recently that i notices the tunnel shaped web and retreat that some widows make (only had hesperus before) and started to build my habitats to facilitate a retreat and to guide the shape of the tunnel web.  mostly, it was an attempt to keep the spider away from the opening and to get the opening of the web facing towards the opening of the container, so that i could conveniently drop roaches down the tunnel (side opening cubes now).  works great with bishopi and variolus.  trying mactans now.  then i was going to try to make an artificial hole for some hesperus i have, to see what they do with that.  i am so glad to get away from quart jars and having them hide right under the lid.  much easier to feed and the web doesn't get repeatedly disturbed.


----------



## Selenops

Yes, L. hesperus are great cobweb constructors. Building high, low, and wide. If given opportunity they will utilize the whole space allowed them. 

That's a smart idea to build them a retreat and make sure there is no decor approximately below the habitat top or lid.

Splintercell's did have uncanny timing and I love that first pic in particularly, revealing how the silk funnel looks and how the L. pallidus uses it. Maybe that can give us a general idea based on descriptions in that link I posted on how L. revivensis cobwebs basically appear.


----------



## Selenops

Oh, another shot of the L. pallidus fibrous multi-layered silk retreat sans the chicken wire. C/O boardmember buthus



buthus said:


>


----------



## Rizzolo

the other article regarding theridiid spider webs indicated that Latrodectus webs were less stereotypical than the webs of orb-web weavers of the same family (more evolved spiders).  i take this to mean possible more adaptable to the given environment.  possibly, given the same container, many of the widow species might weave closely similar webs, i.e. remote retreat, funnel/tube-shaped web, gum-footed lines. my geometricus, variolus, and bishopi all seem to weave in a similar pattern.  i will be interested to see what a hesperus does with the containers i use for my variolus and bishopi.   in quart jars, their webs just look like random cobwebs.  they also are less timid and seem fine without a retreat.  whereas my geometricus are constantly stressed if they don't have a secure retreat. 

waiting for more beanie baby cubes to arrive to continue my experiments.  I love webs!   

i owe the original insight about providing a retreat to buthus.  i was inspire by his posts about his cool widow cages.  mine are nowhere near as nice.  and the lucite sucks for getting pictures.  with the containers on their sides so that i can shoot pictures through the open end, maybe i can finally get some good pictures.


----------



## Rizzolo

*re buthus's pallidus photo*

that photo of the pallidus retreat is awesome.  i am curious how long the spider has been making that web.  it is very thick and seems multi-layered.  is that just the result of the spider adding to it for a long time?


----------



## buthus

> that photo of the pallidus retreat is awesome. i am curious how long the spider has been making that web. it is very thick and seems multi-layered. is that just the result of the spider adding to it for a long time?


You are looking up into a jar.  She has been in there for a couple of weeks when that pic was taken.  

They fool you into thinking it is a funnel, but it's more of a pocket structured in the same way that the rest of the web is, but tighter.  Other widows do this in some form or fashion, but not as easily noticed.


----------



## Selenops

buthus said:


> You are looking up into a jar.  She has been in there for a couple of weeks when that pic was taken.
> 
> They fool you into thinking it is a funnel, but it's more of a pocket structured in the same way that the rest of the web is, but tighter.  Other widows do this in some form or fashion, but not as easily noticed.


You know, L hesperus most of the time uses the geography to it's best advantage. But there are exceptions like the ones I see and sometimes catch at work have to make their web on a perpendicular vertical surface and create webs between the spaces in masonry. That's when I see something of a resemblence to a funnel retreat but more accurately described it is a pocket of layered silk.


----------



## buthus

Megalon, BTW thanks for posting the article link.  Keep bringing it on.  
I have yet to read a good discription of any of these mid-east flavors.  There are a few that are stealth fighter flat black with no hr glass nor adult markings.  
Info regarding web structure, sac shape and discriptions of males, slings and subs may be the only way to even attempt a reasonable guess ID.


----------



## KUJordan

Here's the new L. menavodi sac!


----------



## edie

just a couple pictures of locally caught L. hesperus. they're my favorite to take pictures of, all my ladies are beautiful.


----------



## buthus

Edie, great widows!   Keep the images coming. 
Is the top one really that pale and brown?  Would love to see more images of that honey.


----------



## edie

buthus said:


> Edie, great widows!   Keep the images coming.
> Is the top one really that pale and brown?  Would love to see more images of that honey.


yeah shes pretty light, still young though. she wasn't black at all when i caught her. i have a full grown widow that is pretty pale, i'll get some pictures of her next time.


----------



## KUJordan

Here's one my subadult/adult (?) female L. pallidus eating a roach:


----------



## Rizzolo

*finally - some pictures!*

here is my L tredecimguttatus.  i am interested in any information about the difference between the ones with the spots and the jet black ones.  i think this one is mature. 





IMG]http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p26/Rizzolo1/P1180133croppedtred-1.jpg[/IMG]











here is my little L revivensis.  she is not mature yet, although she looks pretty voluptuous in the pictures.  her legs are still sort of stubby - don't know what she will look like when she matures.











finally - and here i need your help - here is one of several mature L mactans (?) that i raised from small slings.  i am not so sure of the id and was hoping for some input.  i think she (they) may be hesperus.


----------



## buthus

Your mactans is most likely a hesperus from the looks of her and especially if collected from your locale.   

Your rev could be that...but could be one of several (more?) species that hail from spain and throughout the mediterranean and mid-east.   I plan to post some thoughts and pics comparing my supposive black treds and revs. (We truely need a latro expert to take a look and share his/her knowledge on the subject. My knowledge and observations should be taken very lightly...light enough not to crash thru the thin ice that it sits on.   ) 
 Egg sac shape (but only one rev sac to compare) and adult male markings are all that i can go on at the moment.  After getting a few of the revs into large enclosures,  i will be able to add web structure and maybe some other behavorial differences (if any) to the bag o'clues.  

As for treds, there is supposably (I have been told) an ongoing debate regarding whether L.lugubris should remain a seperate specie, be considered a sub-specie or just a morph of tredecimguttatus.


----------



## Rizzolo

the "mactans" was actually not collected locally, but was captive hatched.  i have not followed the whole chain yet, but i think its ancestors came from a crossover zone, so could be either.  

the first clue for me that the 4 female "mactans" might actually be hesperus (aside from the non-steroetypical coloration), was when i attempted mating them to several male L mactans that i was pretty sure of (got them along with another stereotypical female mactans).  i got a fertile egg sac very soon after from the one female i was sure of, but nothing a continuation of infertile egg sacs from the questionable females.

it is ironic the that males of the various species are far more distinct in their differences, and are a much better indicator of species than the females.  so, if you can get offspring, raise them up to maturity, then you can probably make an id pretty conclusively.  so, it would make sense to categorize/catalogue the different male traits.  Get right on that, will ya?!



> buthus - As for treds, there is supposably (I have been told) an ongoing debate regarding whether L.lugubris should remain a seperate specie, be considered a sub-specie or just a morph of tredecimguttatus.


As, as for my so-called-tred (shown in previous post), i did not follow what you were saying.  What is the relationship of the all-black tred and the spotted tred.  It seems that the name "tredecimguttatus" seems to refer to 13 tear-shaped spots?  that seems antithetical to an all black widow.  the references i have seen to treds for sale indicate all-black.  hmmm.

both the tredecimguttatus and revivensis shown above reportedly have their ancestry in turkey, around Istanbul.  i know that doesn't really narrow it down.

Anyway, if anyone out there has a spotted tred (or whatever it is), i would be love to attempt a mating, and would share in the offspring, or i would buy the male outright (and still share some).


----------



## buthus




----------



## Mechanical-Mind

Best regards,
-Matt


----------



## Splintercell

*Latrodectus bishopi building eggsac.*

Hell@all,

A few days ago I was able to withness the complete building 
of a L. bishopi eggsac. It took over 4 hours.
I was able to make some close pic's by simply putting my webcam 
into het container. Since I have no LCD on the stupid webcam
I wasnt able to aim that good, but from the 400 pics I have taken, 
the next 10 are the best.

The pics are numbered chronologicaly. So Pic 1 is the beginning ;-)

Greetz@all.


----------



## Splintercell

*L. bishopi building her eggsac (rest of pics)*

Here are the last 5 pics of the bishopi eggsac building.

Greetz@all.


----------



## Rizzolo

Those are beautiful Tom.  Wish my momma would do that!


----------



## KUJordan

Matt- I just realized something...is your bishopi 'one brick short of a load?'  did she make that eggsac upside down?  or is that just the way the pic turned out?...


----------



## Mechanical-Mind

She made it with the tapered side up (or right side up), but she moved it around a bit after she finished building.

-Matt


----------



## Sheri

A post was deleted as the photographs posted were not his/her own.

As a result, the subsequent posts in reply were also deleted.

Please note that picture threads are designed to showcase specimens we have photographed ourselves, in the wild or captivity.

Thanks,
Sheri


----------



## swatc1h




----------



## buthus

Beautiful spider and great pic swatc1h! Clarity that I cannot consistantly achieve.   





Current mating projects...
My very brown - black tred.  This ones done. Pics coming soon.






My special girl... been grooming this beautiful hesp for this moment ...she is mating right now as I type this ...with a very special male.  Pics coming soon.  







rev (IDiQ).  This will be the second sibling from a single sac that will be mated.  She is ready to rock n' roll.  













Sibling of the bishopi I already mated.  I still cant believe this babe is sitting right in front of me!  Truely the latro lover's dream.   ance: 






BTW...these are all eating Phoenix worms...supposably highly nutritious and chucked full of calcium goodness...yum, yum.  Great feeder worm...soft like waxworms, but not so much fat. My widows seem to love them.


----------



## buthus

Interesting deformity.  Not sure when or what happened, but i suspect that it was a molt gone bad.  I dont think she has another molt and if thats the case, then this beauty mark will surely remain with her the rest of her life.


----------



## KUJordan

that black tred you posted looks like she has really short legs for an abdomen of that size.  i think this is an interesting characteristic that the old worlders share.  the menavodi and pallidus seem to have this morphology as well...


----------



## buthus

KUJordan said:


> that black tred you posted looks like she has really short legs for an abdomen of that size.  i think this is an interesting characteristic that the old worlders share.  the menavodi and pallidus seem to have this morphology as well...


I would take a guess and say it has something to do with these species desert niche.


----------



## KUJordan

I'm getting a little better at this _L. bishopi_ photography...













And figured out a cool system to take some up close pics of the 'ole _L. pallidus_...


----------



## Bothrops

_Latrodectus mirabilis_ (I bet you don't have this species ;P)


----------



## buthus

Bothrops said:


> _Latrodectus mirabilis_ (I bet you don't have this species ;P)


Hey! Thats mirabilis alright!  Nice..     They have the strangest hour glass ...just like yours.  For us latro freaks, there are a few large areas of the world that are "untapped" so to speak.  South America being the most important IMHO.


----------



## Bothrops

buthus said:


> Hey! Thats mirabilis alright!  Nice..     They have the strangest hour glass ...just like yours.  For us latro freaks, there are a few large areas of the world that are "untapped" so to speak.  South America being the most important IMHO.


Thanks!

Yes, this spider was caught in Sierra de la Ventana (province of Buenos Aires), and indeed it's a L. mirabilis

I have had Latrodectus corallinus in the past as well, although they are much more difficult to find.

Cheers,
Bothrops


----------



## Rizzolo

*Widows in India?*

I am heading to India for a few weeks, Dehli and north to Rajasthan and the Himalayas, and i am wondering what species of widow i might encounter there.  Anybody know?  Some links to some information?  

Bothros - that is a beautiful L mirabilis.  What a unique hourglass and a unique red color.  Do you have a male?  It would be great if you could post a photo of the male also.


----------



## Bothrops

Rizzolo said:


> I am heading to India for a few weeks, Dehli and north to Rajasthan and the Himalayas, and i am wondering what species of widow i might encounter there.  Anybody know?  Some links to some information?
> 
> Bothros - that is a beautiful L mirabilis.  What a unique hourglass and a unique red color.  Do you have a male?  It would be great if you could post a photo of the male also.


For the first question you could see the WSC. Here's the link: http://research.amnh.org/entomology/spiders/catalog/THERIDIIDAE.html

For the second question.. Thanks, unfortunately, I don't have a male, although I have an eggsac, so maybe, if all goes well, I will have pics of the males in a few months.

Cheers,
Bothrops


----------



## buthus

Rizzolo said:


> I am heading to India for a few weeks, Dehli and north to Rajasthan and the Himalayas, and i am wondering what species of widow i might encounter there.  Anybody know?  Some links to some information?


Dont know about the northern reaches of India ...probably no natives, but geos and macs have gotten everywhere.  

Venture to Sri Lanka (a bit rough these days) and maybe you could pick up some L.erythromelas though.  I doubt that there is even a pic available online. Just finding some local literature (even if the only thing you can understand is the image) would put a nice notch in the latro hobby belt.


----------



## Peter Grabowitz

*some widow of me... *







Latrodectus spec. LAOS








Latrodectus menavodi







Latrodectus tredecimgutattus








Latrodectus geometricus


----------



## Bothrops

_Latrodectus mirabilis_ with eggsac


----------



## KUJordan

Nice Bothrops!  Those look like pretty heavy-bodies girls, huh?


----------



## Sheri

Damn, those last few species are nice.

I've only kept hesperus and mactans... more one day I hope!


----------



## Bothrops

KUJordan said:


> Nice Bothrops!  Those look like pretty heavy-bodies girls, huh?


Thanks KUJordan!

Actually, I have 3 eggsacs. I hope to be able to raise the spiderlings! *cross the fingers*

Cheers,
Bothrops


----------



## buthus

Lost this babe because of a heater accident.  Heater usually defaults to 70, but for some damn reason it defaulted to 90F at max wattage ...it probably was over 140 directly over the heater when I discovered the fkup.  This one's cup so happen to be the one closest to the sun.  Poor girl. 







Added her to the temp alcohol preserve cup.  I thought a bit back that I ought to be keeping at least some my "bugs" preserved...  my half-azzed attempt to get into the habit...
ANY suggestions regarding preservation, would be appeciated!  ...but I realize that there is tons of info on the subject and I just need to start taking it seriously. 









Sometimes, when I am fairly sure of cause of death, I will allow another to have a special meal.
L.hsp "Arizona" crippled by old age (should have died months ago, but she kept hanging on).  Death finalized via sexy young killer rev...


----------



## Arachnophilist

There are some truly spectacular widows on here. I cant wait to go on a road trip and catch some soon. I also would like to get my hands on some of the other more spectacular species alot of you posess  great shots everyone.


----------



## buthus

L.geometricus-S.grossa showdown.  Place your bets!  
They have been staring each other down for a few days now. 
I will place my bet on the grossa.  She has the patience and skills to take even the greatest latro hunter.  Natural born widow killer she is.


----------



## Peter Grabowitz

*Latrodectus hasselti - my new breeding project*


----------



## DJ_AlMighty_247

Here is my _Latrodectus_-projects 

L. menavodi,

baby female






adult female












laos


----------



## Peter Grabowitz

*2nd generation female of my Latrodectus hasselti*


----------



## Rich Hoyer

*Bolivian Widow ID*

Hi All,

This is my first post, and I hope a question on ID on wild spiders is not out of order here. I've done quite a bit of searching photos on the web and can't come to a solid conclusion on the ID of the following widow. She was found under a rock in southern Santa Cruz Department, Bolivia about a week ago. More precisely it was at -20°11.796', -63°19.485'. You can plug in these coodinates in at http://maps.google.com to see the location.

It resembles Latrodectus curacaviensis in many ways, but the red bands on mine are separate, unlike in many of the photos I've found of that species. I haven't seen any photos showing the underside of the abdomen in that species. It also looks like it could be L. corallinus (the square spot on the belly is a good match), but there are even fewer photos of that species available, and it's mentioned only for Argentina. (Not like anyone has done extensive searches for spiders in southern Bolivia...)

Thanks for your time.

Regards,

Rich
---


----------



## buthus

Does she seem full grown? Thinking she may be a corallinus with a molt to go. 
Yep, not enough images of this specie (and many others for that matter) available.  





$$$?  :?


----------



## KUJordan

Holy Crap Rich!  Steven's right, it looks a ton like L. corallinus.  How did you get that!?  That's an awesome spider.


----------



## swatc1h

Rich took them via Wild. 


I wish to buthus
$$$$$$$$$$$$ Bohahahhaha


----------



## Rich Hoyer

*Under A Rock*

Like I said, she was just under a rock on the side of the road. I was leading a birding & botanizing tour at the time, and my co-leader, Greg, lifted the rock and found her. We all thought she was beautiful and took photos, then moved on. (Well, actually, we didn't move on until over an hour later, as our bus was mired in mud, but that's another story). In any event, I have no experience telling the age of widows, but I can say that she didn't seem to have a very large living area under the rock and didn't have an egg sac, so she could have been a subadult. Sorry I didn't even think to collect her, let alone get all the permits necessary.

Rich


----------



## buthus

Rich Hoyer said:


> Sorry I didn't even think to collect her, let alone get all the permits necessary.
> 
> Rich


Naw..you're just being a good naturalist!   
Your pics made my week.  Keep em coming!


----------



## Peter Grabowitz

Latrodectus 13-gutattus slings


----------



## gunslinger

Hey Buthus,

Who won the showdown?


----------



## buthus

gunslinger said:


> Hey Buthus,
> 
> Who won the showdown?


----------



## buthus

gunslinger said:


> Hey Buthus,
> 
> Who won the showdown?


Did you choose wisely?


----------



## Techuser

Geometricus:
   







The big shot is the only one after the last moult, the abdomen lost most of markings and became clearer


----------



## Rizzolo

*nice geo*

Techuser, those are beautiful pics.  i like the penultimate details.  great job!


----------



## mackids

L.Tredecimguttas. I was just testing out my new SLR camera


----------



## 8+)

*L. bishopi slings drinking*

























This one made a cool spherical web. The next molt identified it as a male.


----------



## SnakeManJohn

Just caught it last night, almost stepped on it barefooted!

L. mactans:


----------



## 8+)

*USB Micro of Dead bishopi*

bishopi sling 1



















































bishopi sling 2






















































































Notice the missing leg which I then found webbed over in the mesh.


----------



## brachy

Hi

Male






female


----------



## buthus

Nice treds!   Looks like a match made in heaven.


----------



## 8+)

*Palps*

I'm often actually excited about getting to use my USB Microscope, but not in this case! What puzzles me is that this was one of the younger ones. It's my fault, I discovered his prey still alive in the cup.

I pretty sure this guy was not mature:


----------



## buthus

Maybe starved, but sometimes they just arent meant to make it.  In the wild, I bet environmental and nutritional factors alone reduce survival rate to less than 20%.  Then add other spiders and other preds, along with accidents such as drowning and the survival rate probably gets down to 5% or even less.  
Ive been babying a couple broods of pals and even though Im frickn hand feeding them and checking on them once every couple days, I still find at least a few dead every week or so.  These are much more wimpy than most, but even with hesps, I doubt I could ever achieve 100% survival rate ...maybe 90% if I was REALLY on the ball and the genetic line was strong.  
As for bishopi slings, Im finding them to be decent candidates for longer term communal rearing.  ...probably up til around 3rd instar or so.  This makes things much easier once they are separated. 

 I still cant believe I have bishopi right here in front of me ...and pals for cripe sake!   
Neshan stopped by today and we were talking about the hobby of keeping latros.  We were trying to fathom a guess to how many serious latro keepers there may be in the US.  Not talking about labs studying latro species or the kid with a mactan in a jar...but serious collectors/keepers.  My guess was 20 ...but Neshan thinks a lot more.  What do ya think?


----------



## 8+)

This is the only one that died of the ones I got from you. I lost four of the ones I got from Todd and they were older. I think some of that was due to inexperience, as I got Todd's first.

Yeah, obviously these guys have evolved the "lots of babies for a couple of survivors" tactic. It remains to be seen as to whether I'm able to keep one of these males alive long enough to mate. 

I think this one probably dessicated, as I fed him and didn't think I needed to water him. Since he didn't eat... The prey was a wax worm moth. It's interesting that the Treds attack them with a vengeance, but the reds seem started by their flapping.

I can't imagine their are too many actually trying to breed and keep Latro lines going in the US. I have just started and the jury is still out. I really love them, but it can be so tedious!!!:wall:


----------



## Rizzolo

Yep!  Real tedious at times.  Some nights, when i am really tired, i still have to feed a couple hundred little guys.  At least they are a little more forgiving than baby tarantulas.  when they are little, it is much more critical to keep the humidity up, keep them fed, etc.  i'm with buthus though, every time i go through to feed i find a few more that don't make it.  seem like some are just weak to start.  i have been really lucky with some batches of bishopi and probably kept about 85-90%.  funny, my revivensis makes robust sacs and all the eggs are fertile, the slings are big, but still once they separated, i lose a lot.  and they grow slowly.  geos are hard too, really small, timid and fragile.  i think humidity is really important for some species, especially when they are small.


----------



## buthus

8+, Rizzolo ..thats what the goal is ..to find ways to make this less tedious.  First we all need to raise many to gather info on each specie ...tolerances, hang-ups, growth, feeding, ave # of sacs, early male ID etc.  The next step will be to develop methods that utilize this info to our advantage.


----------



## GladesHerpFarm

*L. bishopi*

Here is a picture of one of my females-enjoy

Paul


----------



## Bothrops

Gladesherp said:


> Here is a picture of one of my females-enjoy
> 
> Paul


Very beautiful! I have 4 of them, but they are still juveniles.

What's the size of the one from the pic?


----------



## Blaster

My female.


----------



## Pulk

Oh my! Amazing! easily the best sp. Laos pic I've seen...


----------



## Chris.Nagel

*Latrodectus mactans mexicanus, adult female*




www.latrodectus.de.vu


----------



## Chris.Nagel

*Latrodectus variegatus*




www.latrodectus.de.vu


----------



## Chris.Nagel

*Latrodectus lilianae from Spain*




www.latrodectus.de.vu


----------



## Chris.Nagel

*Latrodectus spec. ex. Alicia (corallinus morphe ?)*




www.latrodectus.de.vu


----------



## buthus

Awesome Chris!
Long time since we talked ...we need to get together and down a few beers!  
Good to see you around.


----------



## Bothrops

Blaster said:


> My female.


Awesome pics, man!!


----------



## buthus

> Awesome pics, man!!


  
Blaster, have other latros to show us?


----------



## Blaster

Hello there,
I'm afraid this one is the only Latro I've got. It's a pity, I know - they are real cuties. I'll try to get some new ones in September. At the moment I don't have  the camera anyways, so You need to wait a few days for new pics. 
Best regards,
Matthew.


----------



## Bothrops

This is the way I keep my _Latrodectus_ and _Steatoda_


----------



## Canth

Those are interesting containers. Where did you get them?


----------



## Bothrops

Canth said:


> Those are interesting containers. Where did you get them?


I'm from Argentina...

I got it from a place called "The house of the 1000 containers", lol


----------



## Chris.Nagel

*Latrodectus lilianae, sling*






WWW.LATRODECTUS.DE.VU


----------



## Chris.Nagel

*Latrodectus tredecimguttatus, color variations*

BLACK:





VIOLETT:





HIGH ORANGE:





WWW.LATRODECTUS.DE.VU


----------



## buthus

> Latrodectus tredecimguttatus, color variations
> BLACK:


Chris, is that an all black morph?  (...looks like it)  Where was it collected?  Do you have a strong line of those going?  

:worship:


----------



## Chris.Nagel

buthus said:


> Chris, is that an all black morph?  (...looks like it)  Where was it collected?  Do you have a strong line of those going?
> 
> :worship:


Hi,
yes thats an Black morph from Spain,
i have also Black morph from Israel.
Yes i have a very strong line of this;-)


----------



## buthus

Chris.Nagel said:


> Hi,
> yes thats an Black morph from Spain,
> i have also Black morph from Israel.
> Yes i have a very strong line of this;-)


Interesting.  Have you tried crossing the two?  Technically same species or possible sub-species?


----------



## Canth

Wow those are cool. 

Wish I had some of those


----------



## Chris.Nagel

buthus said:


> Interesting.  Have you tried crossing the two?  Technically same species or possible sub-species?



Hi,
i have tried crossing color variation of spain, israel, france, italy, and from 
other european countrys.
different color variants came out.
All this variations are the same species.
Some time ago some people have black morph of tredecimguttatus as revivensis, lugubris, spec. ex. Almeria and lilianae sells .
All this was tredecimguttatus.


----------



## buthus

Chris.Nagel said:


> Hi,
> i have tried crossing color variation of spain, israel, france, italy, and from
> other european countrys.
> different color variants came out.
> All this variations are the same species.
> Some time ago some people have black morph of tredecimguttatus as revivensis, lugubris, spec. ex. Almeria and lilianae sells .
> All this was tredecimguttatus.


Thats is what I suspected.  Thanks for the info.


----------



## DJ_AlMighty_247

_Latrodectus spec. Laos_,













_Latrodectus mactans_,













_Latrodectus revivensis_,


----------



## ANTHONY.T

:clap:  nice pics


----------



## KUJordan

DJ Almighty-

Are you sure that last girl is a rev?  She is gorgeous anyhow, but how old is she?  I thought L. revivensis was solid black as an adult and more or less "fuzzy."  Give us more info on that girl!


----------



## Gigas

your saying looks more like tredicemguttatus colour morph, i wass thinking this.


----------



## KUJordan

Gigas said:


> your saying looks more like tredicemguttatus colour morph, i wass thinking this.


word.  exactly.


----------



## 8+)

Only if she's an adult though ...


----------



## DJ_AlMighty_247

Hey!

Here is a new pic after the molt. The spots are leaving and it looks a little bit "fuzzy" to me? :? Ls. about one inch. I think she's about 3 months old.


----------



## KUJordan

DJ_AlMighty_247 said:


> Hey!
> 
> Here is a new pic after the molt. The spots are leaving and it looks a little bit "fuzzy" to me? :? Ls. about one inch. I think she's about 3 months old.


yes, now that looks much more like a revivensis.  it was just the color, the still distinctive spots, and the lack of "fuzz" that threw me off at first.


----------



## 8+)

It was my understanding that it's very hard to distinguish the revivensis from the Black Morph tredecimguttatus, perhaps even only with a microscope and knowledge I don't have?

If there's a key, I'd love to know it. I have some slings that I'm unsure about...


----------



## Chris.Nagel

Hello,
me times to interest who determined your animals as revivensis?
As far as I know come all animals from the same
Source from Israel.
And these animals were determined as tredecimguttatus.
Regards Chris
www.latrodectus.de.vu


----------



## 8+)

Yes, this what Steven and I have been discussing. Could be that none of us have revivensis, at least on this side of the pond?


----------



## buthus

8+) said:


> Yes, this what Steven and I have been discussing. Could be that none of us have revivensis, at least on this side of the pond?


Or thats all we have is revs.   

In Israel, both are common ...back yard finds ..sort of deal.  I was told that they can be found together.  If I recall correctly, the revs take the high structure and the treds take the low ground. (?)  I would suspect that webbing can even be shared where the two meet.  

Behavioral issues are confusing me with my two all black lines.  Revs should make web cones with extraneous materials attached much like pallidus.  Neither of my lines do this.  The treds i got from Todd do build tent like structures with prey carapaces and other junk, but I wouldnt compare their webbing to pallidus.
My "revs" dont seem to do much with extraneous materials.  And to confuse me further, not all the treds have made those tents either.  Now... we have to remember that spiders in cups, jars and even larger enclosures are not necessarily going to perform as they would in nature.  

So... the best thing to do is for all of us that have fully black Mediterranean and mid-east species is to "meet" via PMs and discuss the background of our lines.  Then we need to send samples to someone that is willing to ID them properly.  Once we know what we have, we then can start observing each lines behavioral differences while in captivity.  We will most likely find all kinds of differences even between the same specie but collected from different areas.  BUT, we cant assume a specie is what it is because a dealer sold it as that specie.  And we dont want to start (which unfortunately, I and others have already have) describing specie behavior and requirements before we know what we actually have.


----------



## Chris.Nagel

Hello,
here some pictures of one “revivensis”,
those show that it over tredecimguttatus act;


----------



## buthus

Chris, interesting photos.  do you have something to compare against the treds?
Love to have you explain in further detail what your showing us.


----------



## Chris.Nagel

Hello,
the first picture shows the Epygine, second the Spermathek, and third the microstructurehairs.
Property all of this then with the firstdescription of lilianae of Melic to find compared there there 2000 also the regulation key for tredecimguttatus is.


----------



## Rizzolo

i would love to hear more about that Chris.  

my revivensis line (from a female not part of the common US bloodlines) bred with Steven's male and i have 100s of offspring.  i had assumed that she was not gravid when i got her because she molted before mating with buthus' male.  however,  i have been told by another latro lover that widows can mate (when penultimate), then molt, and still be gravid and produce viable sacs.   so, it is possible she was gravid when i got her, and she did not actually mate  with buthus' male.  i have previously assumed they must be the same species, but given that she produced her first sac only 10 days after mating, i have reason to doubt that buthus' male is the actual father.  

regarding the behavioral issues with tredecimguttatus vs revivensis:  all of my so-called revivensis females produce canopies in their webs.  the only other species i have that does this is mirabilis (which looks similar, except for coloring).   i have not read anything about the behavior of black treds, but my 13-spot treds don't exhibit this behaviour at all.  

i have a whole bunch of these revivensis for anyone who is interested.   tomorrow, i will post photos of their canopy webs in their deli cups.

david


----------



## 8+)

Rizzolo said:


> i had assumed that she was not gravid when i got her because she molted before mating with buthus' male.  however,  i have been told by another latro lover that widows can mate (when penultimate), then molt, and still be gravid and produce viable sacs.   so, it is possible she was gravid when i got her, and she did not actually mate  with buthus' male.


That second female bishopi I posted pics of with the sac, I had observed mating. I removed the male and placed him with another female. Then a day or two later she molted. I almost posted about it because I was surprised that they would even mate before maturity.

I'm not diligent with records, so I just assumed I got her mixed up, or had put another male in with her and forgot. I'm pretty positive that's not the case, however, which supports that theory.



> i have previously assumed they must be the same species, but given that she produced her first sac only 10 days after mating, i have reason to doubt that buthus' male is the actual father.


I believe it is possible for them to produce a sac that quickly, if they have unfertilized eggs waiting when they're mated?


----------



## John Apple

I had a conversation With Frank Soma a while back and the widows will breed and then shed and still produce viable sacs. This is something I am in the process of finding out si I will keep ya posted


----------



## UrbanJungles

*Some geometricus pics*


----------



## Rizzolo

*L mirabilis?*

here are some shots of my recenty matured (i think) L mirabilis (i think).  













forgot the revivensis photos i promised (showing canopy).  spent saturday morning rescuing them from another ant invasion.   i lost many, many revivenis males unfortunately.


----------



## UrbanJungles

Sorry to hear that David.  
Great pics!


----------



## Canth

Sorry to hear about the ant attack 

On a side note, that mirabilis looks like it has a spade on its back!


----------



## 8+)

She looks like her name should be Latrodectus triangulosa!

UrbanJungles, I really like those light geos!


----------



## Rizzolo

I hate argentine ants!!!!!

The L mirabilis is interesting and i love those dorsal markings!  I didn't think she was mature because her legs were so short and she is way ahead of her siblings.  she seemed to be ready for the male that you can see in the picture.  they had been mating seemingly continuously for about 2 days, when i finally interrupted to get the photo.  he was on her her ventral abdomen (looked like he was sleeping on her) and moved just before photo.  after her last molt, she started eating like crazy and puffed up big.  hopefully, she is gravid.  can't wait to see what the egg sacs look like.   

their behaviour is a little similar to my revivensis.  they build a canopy with detritus, dead bugs and stuff, and tend to use that as a retreat, rather than building a funnel-shaped retreat, as many other species do.

i will try to get some better lighting and get a closeup of the "hourglass."


----------



## John Apple

Here is a good idea to keep the ants off the slings, worked for me when I lived in Florida.
Set the table legs in cups of water or better yet Diatomaceous earth.
Most ants will not cross the water barrier and the earth will definately deter them even if sugar was the prize


----------



## UrbanJungles

I've also used the cups filled with vegetable oil...it's effective albeit messy!


----------



## Rizzolo

this is off-topic now, but i can't resist.  i use the water barrier method a lot (for out cat food too).  i could not keep my roach colony without putting it on stilts sitting in water.  i also use the boric acid barrier method and boric acid bait (mixed with powdered sugar).   the water is completely effective.  the boric acid is sort of effective.  if their scouts locate something they really want, they will run right over it.  i'm sure they die later, but in the meantime, they can make off with my spiders.  it is amazing how far out of their way they will go to get the prize.  i have found the best solution is to track down their hives and poison them directly (i use an over-the-counter bifethrin insecticide that is very effective).  sometimes they will make a hive in the walls i think (assholes!).

i am thinking of making little pedestals for my T and widow cages that have a water reservoir at the bottom.  i will just have to make sure that they are not touching each other, or anything else.  

there are few things that make me as frustrated and mad as seeing ants overrunning one of my spiders.


----------



## buthus

How large are these ants?  Do they come in and cross your room in ant "highways"?


----------



## Rizzolo

they are small black ants, about 3/32"  long.  yes, they cross our house in giant superhighways when they locate something they want.  it takes them about an hour or less to completely take over and area.  

we made it through the weekend with no ant attacks.  i was out of town and was wondering what i would come home to.  i have recently found some nests and have poisoned them directly.  i guess that was somewhat effective.  

the argentine ants are a giant supercolony (i think that is the term they use).  the nests are not antagonistic to each other, but act like one.


----------



## buthus

Rizzolo said:


> they are small black ants, about 3/32"  long.  yes, they cross our house in giant superhighways when they locate something they want.  it takes them about an hour or less to completely take over and area.
> 
> we made it through the weekend with no ant attacks.  i was out of town and was wondering what i would come home to.  i have recently found some nests and have poisoned them directly.  i guess that was somewhat effective.
> 
> the argentine ants are a giant supercolony (i think that is the term they use).  the nests are not antagonistic to each other, but act like one.


\

Ive been tracking down where the ant highways start from ...crack in wall, pipes under sink, etc and I inject a good load of wasp/bee poison spray ...then I caulk the hole/crack so its sealed shut.


----------



## Rizzolo

> Ive been tracking down where the ant highways start from ...crack in wall, pipes under sink, etc and I inject a good load of wasp/bee poison spray ...then I caulk the hole/crack so its sealed shut.


new construction is much better as far as sealing cracks and such, and that makes it much harder for the ants.  as i renovate areas of my 1930s house, i seal up everything as tight as i can and i makes a big difference.  we have no real baseboards originally, so they come up mostly through the cracks around the perimeter of the rooms.  i could go around each room and caulk the crack, but haven't done that yet.  

buthus - what active ingredient is in the poison that you use?


----------



## buthus

> buthus - what active ingredient is in the poison that you use?


Not sure .. threw the can away a bit back.  Was using some bee/wasp spray, name brand, black can ...nasty stuff... and only when I knew Id be sealing off the pathway.  Not a good thing to be using a lot of.  You dont want that shat getting into your invert enclosures.  
A few weeks ago, I had a major ant infiltration coming in via a small space where my plaster work wasnt up to par next to my sink pipes.  I took some trusty 409 and squirted a bunch into the crack, sealed it and then wiped up the entire ant trail that led all the way to me enclosures.  I had to rehouse two widows because they were being driven nutzo from the ants.  No more ants from under the sink anyway.  

I insulated and put up sheet rock in my room ...sealed the walls well.  This of course helped reduce the ant infiltration to a minimum.  Once in awhile they come thru the easiest spot... the door (door to outside).  When this happens I wipe up the entire highway with windex or 409 ...doing so all the way outside.  Once the ant path is broken and with high numbers not returning, they always give up for quite some time.  Though, I do realize that Im not dealing with a specie as aggressively determined as you are.


----------



## 8+)

More pics, less ant talk!!! ;P 

Here's one of my L. bishopi with sac. I posted them before, but Steven cleaned them up for me :worship: , so I thought I put the edits here:


----------



## BertWright

*Re: Lactrodectus - Black Widows*

Before moving to Alabama, I had seen only one or two Black Widows.  After moving there, I noticed that there were Lactrodectus mactans ALL OVER - I will say that they generally stay outside and rarely come inside a home.  The closest that I found them inside were in the Doorways and windows.  They love the eaves of a house too. 

I kept a few, but the Black Widow uses a web to capture food, and I just wasn't willing  enough to set up an enclosure where they could build their webs.  Their webs are SUPER strong - and if you ever go to pulling on some of their webbing, you may just pull one out of its hiding place and onto your hand. 

O.K., the markings on Black Widows vary within the species.  The Lactrodectus mactans or Southern Black Widow CAN and usually does have an hour glass on their abdomen - but sometimes it is on their back.  Sometimes it is undefined or separated and some Lactrodectus mactans are not Black and they do NOT have red, but white markings. That is what I learned about the Lactrodectus mactans or Southern Black Widow.  They have been handled but I would NOT recommend it as people HAVE died from a Black Widow bite (it is NOT an overly aggressive spider though - bites are mostly caused by inadvertent contact). Tough sticky webbing is a sign of a Black Widow being near and generally if you see one, there are many close by.

Bert Wright
Fellow Tarantula Keeper/Enthusiast


----------



## buthus

> The Lactrodectus mactans or Southern Black Widow CAN and usually does have an hour glass on their abdomen - but sometimes it is on their back.


Mactans always have an hour glass ...I have yet to see a line that is clearly showing signs of loosing it.  If you find one with a definite split, good chance she is actually variolus.  They never have an hour glass on their dorsal, but like all latrodectus, they have a dorsal line which is the "spine" of a herringbone marking which covers the entire dorsal region. This dorsal line splits up into dots as they mature and can be retained in full glory or fade away to the point that it can be seen only with bright light.  Usually at the very least, mactans retain one chunk of their dorsal line next to their spinneret.     




> Sometimes it is undefined or separated and some Lactrodectus mactans are not Black and they do NOT have red, but white markings.


 Mactans can retain some white, but usually these white markings are only seen on juvs.  Adults with clear white markings may actually be variolus.


----------



## Rizzolo

*corallinus color morph slings*

Below are pics of L corallinus "alicia" slings.  Notice the revivensis-like canopy in the web.  they hang out under the canopy and have no separate retreat that i can see.  I can't wait to see what the coloration will look like on these guys.


----------



## buthus

Very nice!  
Hey...you know Ive always considered you a good friend.


----------



## Rizzolo

Thanks Steven.  I've got to move this weekend.  Can you give me a hand? And bring your pickup?   LOL  

anyway, here are the pics of the L revivensis webbing/retreat that i promised - to compare/contrast with the L corallinus webbing in the previous post.  i had to do some image balancing, so the quality isn't the best (lighting wasn't good).


----------



## buthus

> Thanks Steven. I've got to move this weekend. Can you give me a hand? And bring your pickup? LOL


Shucks...I missed your move ...bummer.  

Great stuff.  Cool to see that a new world specie does that ..a little shelter building.


----------



## stardragon

*In search of L. variolus*

buthus, I just joined the forum. Great stuff! Anyway, I have looked high and low around my neck of the woods, Lapeer Michigan, for L.variolus but have not had any luck finding them. Just wondering how common they are to these parts and how would I go about finding them.

Also, I was out in Vegas on a vacation staying at a friends place this past August. His backyard was the usual stone and a cinderblock wall common to this area. One night we were out there having a few brewskies and I decided to get a flashlight and do a little parimeter walk. I've always been infactuated with spiders and having never seen a real live widow, I figured I would give it a try. As luck would have it, I came upon a beauty of a girl! My friends figured I must be crazy! Seems that, "that one moment" was the most exciting for me the whole time out there. LOL. So, I took some pics of her with my buddy holding the flashlight but the pics were a bit fuzzy under the conditions.
When I have a chance, I will post the best pic I have. I think it was L. hesperus, but not sure.
Anyway, the trip has whetted my desire to find the L.variolus if I can.

Thanks for all the great info and pics!


----------



## John Apple

L variolus is in select populations here in Michigan, haqving found two of them myself. I have released many slings this summer at a railroad track by my house so I am sure that another population will be there also.
I'll be at the Taylor show in two weeks and will have a few there for sale if you are wanting a couple for your collection.
Oddly enough the males have a leg span almost as big as the adult females [1"] and the slings are rather large and red.
The hourglass is almost nonexistant , being two very small red marks.


----------



## stardragon

John,
Can you provide some details of the show?  Where is it being held, what is the name and dates?  I would be very interested in making the trip if I am able.

Thanks,
Ron


----------



## John Apple

Ron
go west on 94 south on Telegraph , turn left on Wick and it is 100 yards or so down on the left.
Like I said the males are rather large and a bit unusual as they have a lot of color.when I get home I'll post a pic


----------



## buthus

Ahhh! Good, conversation regarding one of my latro "goals" ...most northern!  
Love to see some pics of your specimens John.  
Eventually, if one of you northlanders finds or produces a few extra, Id love to purchase/trade some.


----------



## John Apple

well I tried posting pics but it stops and goes no further when I try and download them for the site here....any ideas or help


----------



## Canth

Pretty L. hesperus found in South Texas











Before her molt






Recent happenings...
27 L. bishopi slings






L. hesperus making ANOTHER sac (up for grabs by the way). It's a cool process. 2nd time I've seen it happen






L. menavodi made another sac 






Proud mama


----------



## Rizzolo

*latrodectus males*

here are some males of L revivensis, L variolus, and L mirabilis (may be diaguita). sorry about the poor quality - best my lense will do.   

L revivensis












L variolus












L mirabilis


----------



## Rizzolo

*L mirabilis?*

well, my L mirabilis (?) produced an egg sac! 












however, this creates a quandry.  i thought maybe she had one more molt, although she looked mature, and she mated readily.  reportedly, she was to turn mostly black when mature - NOT!  I love the design though! 

check out the cool design on the anterior abdomen.







ventral abdomen







dorsal







i have not been able to find good photos of other Argentinian species, L diaguita, L variegatus, L quartus, to compare.   

i welcome links to other images of these species to help with id.


----------



## Rizzolo

*gravid L revivensis*

here is my fat L revivensis.  hope that she is gravid!


----------



## Canth

WOW she's fat! I love the spade design on here. Hope the sac is viable 

Btw, I opened the 4 menavodi sacs you sent me. I got 4 slings total. Still got one more chance though, she laid another one about 10 days ago.


----------



## Pulk

the color on these photos is absurdly off, this geo is very dark. the pattern is pretty faint, which is cool too


----------



## buthus

Pulk, r u shooting with those energy saving bulbs?  I played with color correction with one of these pics and it cant be completely fixed... which seems to be the case when I forget to set my white balance to my room settings.  I use only those energy savers for lighting my room and in my photo lamps. 
Blues are all but lost and the greens are screwy.  Photoshop cant "grab" those colors and enhance them because they are not there... so if added, the entire image gets purpled or greyed out (when bumping green).  

Here is an attempt ..a bit better, but still not right...






First check out your cameras settings and see if you can set a white balance setting just for your room (or wherever you're shooting).  
2nd..shoot me a PM sometime if you need a copy of PS ...im sure I could set u up and give you some quick pointers if needed.


----------



## Pulk

buthus said:


> Pulk, r u shooting with those energy saving bulbs?


dunno if it's energy-saving, but yeah, it's a halogen lamp... I think the problem is a combination of that and the very orange wood floor I took the pics over.



buthus said:


> Here is an attempt ..a bit better, but still not right...


Nice!



buthus said:


> First check out your cameras settings and see if you can set a white balance setting just for your room (or wherever you're shooting).
> 2nd..shoot me a PM sometime if you need a copy of PS ...im sure I could set u up and give you some quick pointers if needed.


the camera does have a setting for that, and it works, I just forgot to put it on and was too lazy to take the pics again.  (i do have photoshop)

thanks, buthus!


----------



## Canth

Latrodectus geometricus slings





I thought this was a pretty cool little thing they did. The made a little tornado looking thing inside the 2oz delicup they're in. I did my best to take a pic, but those little delicups are too opaque for a good shot.

And a 4th instar from a previous sac. I thought this was a pretty cool picture with the reflection


----------



## Pulk

Nice! There aren't too many good pics of slings.


----------



## Canth

Thanks Jacob 

Brightened and cropped a little differently


----------



## Canth

Latrodectus revivensis on 1/4" mesh






I've been really bored lately

L. bishopi sling











L. hesperus subspecies guarding a sac


----------



## Kryshah

Wow, this thread is intense.  I've been a Latrodectus fan for years, won some cash last year with a poster contest displayin different species of Latros in North America even, but couldn't have imagined this.  Great pics guys!  Makes me wish my wife wasn't overbearingly arachniphobic.


----------



## Pulk

Kryshah said:


> Wow, this thread is intense.  I've been a Latrodectus fan for years, won some cash last year with a poster contest displayin different species of Latros in North America even, but couldn't have imagined this.  Great pics guys!  Makes me wish my wife wasn't overbearingly arachniphobic.


do you have a pic of the poster?


----------



## Pulk




----------



## Kryshah

Pulk said:


> do you have a pic of the poster?


I do somewhere, it'll take some searching though, I have it buried in my laptop somewhere.  Not a great pic though, had to take it after the show, when everything was torn down.  I'll pop it in here when I can though.

On an off note, does anyone have advice on getting an extreme arachniphobe to bend to the idea of keeping some L. mactans around?:wall:


----------



## KUJordan

Kryshah said:


> I do somewhere, it'll take some searching though, I have it buried in my laptop somewhere.  Not a great pic though, had to take it after the show, when everything was torn down.  I'll pop it in here when I can though.
> 
> On an off note, does anyone have advice on getting an extreme arachniphobe to bend to the idea of keeping some L. mactans around?:wall:



Yeah, tell them that they're probably living all around anyway.  It's better to have a few that you know of their exact location (in a container) than roaming freely around your home and yard, garage, woodpiles, sheds, and toilets and not knowing where they are.  That usually does the trick.


----------



## Kryshah

KUJordan said:


> Yeah, tell them that they're probably living all around anyway.  It's better to have a few that you know of their exact location (in a container) than roaming freely around your home and yard, garage, woodpiles, sheds, and toilets and not knowing where they are.  That usually does the trick.


I actually tried that... my wife is nuts though.  She's ok with anything thats out of sight and out of mind.  But once theirs a concentrated population that she has to see, she gets upset.  I even have to put a lock on my ball python enclosure.  I wonder sometimes why I married her.... but thanks for the advice KUJ!


----------



## KUJordan

Kryshah said:


> I actually tried that... my wife is nuts though.  She's ok with anything thats out of sight and out of mind.  But once theirs a concentrated population that she has to see, she gets upset.  I even have to put a lock on my ball python enclosure.  I wonder sometimes why I married her.... but thanks for the advice KUJ!


OK, well then just threaten to divorce her if she doesn't let you have some.


----------



## froggyman

what is the northern most extent of L.bishopi in the us??


----------



## 8+)

They are only found in three scrub palmetto habitats in central Florida.


----------



## buthus

I would have to guess that there has been at least a few attempts to escape Florida but they fall very tightly into a specific niche.  One of the most interesting widows because of that.  

Here is a little photo shoot of a spider that I was very fond of...  















































eerrrrr?












grrrrrrrrr!






grr...






GRRRRRR!!






grrrr!..rar...rar..rarrrrr! munch munch






grrrrrrrrr!! munch






GRRRRRRRRRR!






grrrr... (wimper, but with feeling of satisfaction)


----------



## Pulk

i have a hesp exactly like that, except it's less brown. do you want any of her sacs?


----------



## buthus

Pulk said:


> i have a hesp exactly like that, except it's less brown. do you want any of her sacs?


Pulk, I sent u a pm regarding this...but also about the traps.


----------



## Stylopidae

You know...I hate to post right after Buthus, but bite me 

Taken through _round plastic_.

Not the best pic...but what they hell, here it goes:


----------



## froggyman

what species is that chesire??


----------



## buthus

Cheshire said:


>


Assuming thats a US specie.. sub-adult variolus? though the dorsal line/dots are far more slim than any of mine were.  Probably a mac eh?   or some pretty S.American I would immediately desire.

Cheshire, you come across variolus in your immediate area?


----------



## What

Looks like my L. variolus....




Pics link to larger.


----------



## buthus

What said:


> Looks like my L. variolus....


Damn...total brainfart...whats the term for the U shaped mark top, front of a spiders abdomen?  Anyway...jeese... Maybe "herringbone" anyway...his spider has a red one.    Now if that spider is an adult...this would really irk me along with the dorsal line outline ...would maybe guess something like katipo or a redback proper mutant version.


----------



## Stylopidae

buthus said:


> Assuming thats a US specie.. sub-adult variolus? though the dorsal line/dots are far more slim than any of mine were.  Probably a mac eh?   or some pretty S.American I would immediately desire.
> 
> Cheshire, you come across variolus in your immediate area?


US species...I'm assuming variolus.

Collected in Texas at Arachnocon.

I have only seen one latrodectus in my entire life here in Iowa. It was about an hour north of me.

They occurr here, but you're better off playing the lottery.


----------



## Canth

Cheshire said:


> US species...I'm assuming variolus.
> 
> Collected in Texas at Arachnocon.
> 
> I have only seen one latrodectus in my entire life here in Iowa. It was about an hour north of me.
> 
> They occurr here, but you're better off playing the lottery.


Looks the exact same as the ones I found there.


----------



## Sniper

*What kind of Latro spec?*

Hi all!

Anyone recognize this (subadult) spider? (I have a guess, but don't want to influence...)


----------



## buthus

Sniper said:


> Hi all!
> 
> Anyone recognize this (subadult) spider? (I have a guess, but don't want to influence...)


L.hesperus would be me guess.   

Here's her pretty little cousin..


----------



## Sniper

buthus said:


> L.hesperus would be me guess.


Hmm... I bought her as L. mactans "mexicanus" :? but looks like... I dont know what ...


----------



## buthus

Sniper said:


> Hmm... I bought her as L. mactans "mexicanus" :? but looks like... I dont know what ...


Ha!  I was going to add that if she was a south or central American, she looks like she could be mexicanus!  :clap: To late now...no one has to believe me...  

Awesome man!  I want some of those SOOO bad!  To the point of planning a trip just for a quicky collection.  ;P 

Here
she is.  
Also..couple other good sub-adult pics.. 6 row, first two latro/white flower pics. here

How long ago was her last molt?  Be sure (please!   ) to snap some more shots right after her next molt.  Love to see her glass too!


----------



## Sniper

buthus said:


> Ha!  I was going to add that if she was a south or central American, she looks like she could be mexicanus!  :clap: To late now...no one has to believe me...


Good to hear (see ) it... I hope so  

I found some pics here, another confusing color variant ...




> How long ago was her last molt?  Be sure (please!   ) to snap some more shots right after her next molt.  Love to see her glass too!


The last molt was cca 2weeks ago... I think next molt will be actual in these days  ... cameras (and a few subadult male  ) are ready for it 

Till then here is my L. menavodi:


----------



## buthus

> I found some pics here, another confusing color variant ...


No confusion there .. thats quintessential "mexicanus".  The only thing that yours may not have that those pics show is the amount that the "herringbone" stripes are swept back. They are running almost parallel to the dorsal line.  
Hopefully yours will retain that much vibrant color otherwise the stripes become "ghosted" like many variolus have. (except variolus stripes are white)

Do you have other females? 
Pics of the sub adult male ...a must!  

Shoot me a PM in 3-4 months when you have 500 or so slings.


----------



## Sniper

buthus said:


> No confusion there...


I see :clap: thx!



> Do you have other females?


Only her in this species... my friend has 3 subadult pair of them... we hope at least 1egg sac  

Maybe 1try with L.mactans mactans male... what do you think? 



> Pics of the sub adult male ...a must!


 working on it  



> Shoot me a PM in 3-4 months when you have 500 or so slings.


   :worship:


----------



## buthus

> Maybe 1try with L.mactans mactans male... what do you think?


  No not yet anyway.  4 females gives you guys a good chance of success, but sh!t happens ...so IMHO I would mate all four proper, raise as many slings as you can deal with and learn the ins and outs of this species care needs.  Its the 2nd and 3rd generation where many latro keepers seem to start having troubles.  Having a good number of breeders will help you keep the line(s) going.


----------



## Sniper

Thanx for advice  I will follow it (or take it?... my English is not so good  )


----------



## buthus

Sniper said:


> Thanx for advice  I will follow it (or take it?... my English is not so good  )


Ha!  Got the sucker following my advice!     
hmmm... now.. lets see what I can get you to do... 

oh... BTW... "follow it", "take it"  either way... depending on how hard ya want it.    ...


----------



## Sniper

buthus said:


> Ha!  Got the sucker following my advice!


 be my guest... btw the 3 other females are already adults... maybe one of them produce an egg sac before my pair reach an adult age  If it happens I will try L. mactans mactans x L mactans mexicanus combo... anyway mactans and mactans mexicanus are different species or subspecies or essentials ... no any word on wsc or any other stuff in the net... 




> hmmm... now.. lets see what I can get you to do...
> 
> oh... BTW... "follow it", "take it"  either way... depending on how hard ya want it.    ...


HA... some significant info LOL


----------



## Sniper

L. mactans with an egg sac  She produced it early morning hours


----------



## buthus

Another latro lovin' AB member gave me a crack at breeding a S.American sp. being totted as "sp.Alicia".  Probably L.corallinus or L.antheratus.  
Introduced a couple mature males to what I hope is a mature female.  (Probably the smallest Latrodectus Ive played with so far.)  































The pretty chick next door.  






Entertainment for when the lovin' show got slow. 


























Jordan sent me a couple fem pals because I had a mature male and a few more boys up and coming.  Both females mated...one mated twice.  Both females died before producing sacs.  
The 1st to die was giving me troubles from the get go.  She would not settle down.  She made enough of a web to mate her, but nothing more.  Towards her end, I moved her around a couple times trying to find her something she'd call a comfy home, but no luck.  This one needed a cool down big time (IMHO).  I should have stuck her in the fridge when I was thinking about doing so.  
The other female did well ...housed her right away in a little enclosure I use for mating photo shoots.  She webbed the place up fairly well ...her little "funnel" was half-baked, but she hunted with some real spunk ..not always the case with pals from what Ive seen.   She mated and I waited ...and waited.  Then one of my other boys molted and soon after I mated her again.
Anyway ..she died not to long ago.  Pallidus have proven to be one of the trickiest, but I had, at the very least, some semi-cocky hopes for this mating exchange.  Bummed me out enough to avoid the subject.  Sorry about the Jordan.  Ill probably try again ..hopefully towards spring.  I want to time things with our winter so I can chill em outside. 
So here is the girl that was in the little mating enclosure ...I think this was the first pairing... 












A quasi-recent variolus pairing.












I like this shot ..somehow totally sums up bishopi personality for me.   






Mature bishopi male feeding...





Fem bsh feeding on a bundle of junk she decided to haul back up.  Looks like theres a fresh earwig in there.. maybe it caused all the commotion. 






geo ...*hiding from the law!*






Just a shot I like..






Couple of hot young girls I caught partying on my property...


----------



## Rizzolo

*Wow*

:worship: 

cool photos as usual.  your "alicia" widow looks nice and fat!

good luck


also, good luck with the pallidus pairing!!!


----------



## buthus

Rizzolo said:


> also, good luck with the pallidus pairing!!!


Read the paragraph again ...wish my luck NEXT time round.  Luck does often seem to help, but ya cant rely on it.    ... 


The Good, the Bad and the Ugly. 
Time for the bad and ugly...

Old dying widows will now and then just hang on to life as they barely hang on to their web.  This one was a record breaker.  It lived for several months in its retched state.  Everyday, I'd look at it and be in disbelief that it was still alive.  In the end it lost several legs (never witnessed) to its own webbing.  As the legs start curling in and they have a harder time keeping them stretched outwards, they become clumsy hooks and the spider ends up having to twist them right off.   






Speaking of leg lacking ...this beautiful "texanus" arrived DOA.  It was well packed (IMO within the realm of properly), well hydrated, fed n' fat, etc.  What I believe happened is... because of its missing rear leg, it had a hard time webbing itself in secure ...tight quarters, padding ...the stress of the struggle could have done it in, let alone being tossed around during the journey.



















Pretty spider.  I have a small group of her offspring.  They have proven to be much more fragile than the average mostly "indestructible" hesperus slings ...for reasons unknown.  I plan to dive head first into selective breeding these.
But, for now, just a toe in those waters... 






Widow that refuse to eat.
Probably the most common reason for emaciated spiders is due to molt timing of individuals not lining up with chow time. Easy to catch if one is babying a smaller group of slings/juvs, but with mass feedings its easy to miss a few.  Often, the spider will start wrapping their prey up and even start to feed, so you'll think all is well, but they don't always feed enough ...more like they go through the motions and then quit.






Unfortunately, most of the time (for me so far) when widows get to that point, if and after they DO finally feed, they usually die.  Water is the key to a better recovery/survival rate ...if you can get them to consume water first before force feeding, they have a better chance. I suspect that lack of H2O prevents them from properly digesting the meal ...or maybe the stress of eating finally does them in.  Funny though.. when Ive saved really messed up widows(hesperus) in the wild by placing food directly in their webs, they usually do great... next night I find a plump/perky spider.  

Mystery factors probably weigh in as heavy as molt timing issues.  A murmer of discussion regarding "cool down" periods has begun on the boards ...so latro keepers pay attention to whatever is said/discovered.  I will be. 
Widows that wont stay put, properly web and feed ...these will starve.  Sometime they get to a point where they will finally feed a little, but wont/cant go through the motions.  Producing webbing requires fluids and movement itself also requires fluids.  
This is a CB pallidus that did very well until adulthood, then she quickly went downhill.  A perfect candidate for the fridge, but I didnt cool her down ...should of/could of/would of sorta thing.  
She finally fed but died in a day or 2...












A sp.Laos that starved ...wouldn't eat or drink, no matter what I did.  I finally decided to let her wander around my desk/computer stuff while I was working.  Figured maybe I could stimulate the need to feed. After some wander time i stuck food in her face ...literally.  She fed for awhile ...but again, too late for this pretty girl ...she died hours after feeding. What r ya gonna do?  These spiders are supposed to be living happily at the base of some uprooted tree high up in some mountain valley somewhere in some soupy SE Asian jungle.  Died in distant foreign lands ...consumed by a hobby.  












Boys don't cry...
A big girl shacking up in my empty pool.  This one had a line of males waiting outside as she mated just insider her little "cave".  The boy doing the deed died because of me ...my light upset her and she reacted by suddenly wrapping him up during copulation.  Gotta laugh at that.  


























More domestic violence...












Death by old age? ...












Such is life...

Dead girlz...






Dried boyz...


----------



## KUJordan

You know, until about 3 or 4 years ago I had never seen a Latrodectus in person.  Now, after all we have done they have become such a part of my life it's pretty crazy.  I have come to realize the prolific nature of their survival (bishopi aside) and the overall strength of habitation and breeding.  It's amazing to see and I really think that somehow the idea surrounding these awesome spiders could be slightly changing for the better on a much more broad scale than just us on these forums and the few true enthusiasts out there.  Keep up the good work, everyone!


----------



## buthus

> You know, until about 3 or 4 years ago I had never seen a Latrodectus in person.


Jordan, where did you grow up?  I had figured you were playing around with mactans or something when you were but an over zealous little rock turnin' brat.   :?   ... 

...:worship:


----------



## Pulk

mactans from buthus/steven...




















and a revivensis sling


----------



## buthus

Awesome pics Pulk.   That one is special ...I think I have a male for her.  ...infact just saved his arse from eventual doom.    Ill put him outside and try and keep him alive longer.  Talk to me sometime this coming week if you want to try and mate her.   


Speaking of longing for lovin ...this girl needs a boyfriend and soon.


----------



## Sniper

L. mactans mactans (red)








L. mactans mexicanus (juv. female)













...and an adult male:







...near the target


----------



## Salticstance

*Red and Brown*

I took the image of the L. bishopi with egg sac in a scrub oak habitat.
I captured this geo because of its very light color. I'm partial toward the lighter colored browns.


----------



## Sniper

*mexi*

Hi all!

Subadult (or maybe adult) female L. mactans mexicanus)














...one molt "younger" sister:


----------



## What

Some of my latest photos:

L. variolus - 




L. hesperus - 




Pictures link to larger.


----------



## Salticstance

*Dark L. geometricus*

Here are some pics of a dark brown that I had for about two years. As with the one that I currently have, I never bred her with a male. The females seem to live longer this way, and I don't have to deal with releasing the spiderlings.


----------



## hauser

*L. indistinctus*

L. indistinctus from Namibia


----------



## hauser

*L. hasselti*


----------



## hauser

L. indistinctus


----------



## buthus

Hauser, thrilled to see the S.Africans!  
Theres a few species down that way that can look more than fairly alike (from what I have been told).  
Would love to learn more regarding visual ID facts.  ...esp considering you showed us an immature female! (probably a great place to start with ID clues)

Oh.. habitat, structural preferences (in the wild), web structure, type of prey carcasses found in webs..etc ...If you have such info and the time.


----------



## hauser

*L.indistinctus*

@buthus: the last one is an young female, abdomen ~0.1 inch diameter. adult is two posts up.
typical to id l.indistictus is the lack of the hourglass and a red stripe or dot at the end of the abdomen. they live near ground, (under stones, wood, in little caves...), i've never seen them climbing alot. no idea about prey in wildlife. i've never been to southern africa. an adult, gravid female was brought to me from namibia. i feed crickets. they like it hot and dry (>85°F/30%). 

some habitat pictures:
http://tolweb.org/Latrodectus_indistinctus/93809
http://www.biodiversityexplorer.org/arachnids/spiders/theridiidae/latrodectus_indistinctus.htm

more of my l.indistinctus pics:
http://scorpions.f1.to/?g=97_Latrodectus_indistinctus


----------



## buthus

hauser said:


> @buthus: the last one is an young female, abdomen ~0.1 inch diameter. adult is two posts up.
> typical to id l.indistictus is the lack of the hourglass and a red stripe or dot at the end of the abdomen. they live near ground, (under stones, wood, in little caves...), i've never seen them climbing alot. no idea about prey in wildlife. i've never been to southern africa. an adult, gravid female was brought to me from namibia. i feed crickets. they like it hot and dry (>85°F/30%).
> 
> some habitat pictures:
> http://tolweb.org/Latrodectus_indistinctus/93809
> http://www.biodiversityexplorer.org/arachnids/spiders/theridiidae/latrodectus_indistinctus.htm
> 
> more of my l.indistinctus pics:
> http://scorpions.f1.to/?g=97_Latrodectus_indistinctus


From what I understand, except for the 2 brown clads, all the Southern African species lack visible hr glasses?  And all the black clads at the very least retain some dorsal line with indistinctus being the most minimal. ?

Anyway ...cool stuff!  For some time now Ive been trying to get a bud of mine down there to just go out and find me some karrooensis and rhodesiensis sacs. ..IMHO 2 of the latro holy grails.  
Hard to get non-bug people to do bug things ...esp "scary" bug things!  :wall:  
Hauser, thanks for sharing


----------



## Pulk

large hesp male








cool subadult female pattern




large adult female in the hole, male below, caught a decent sized polymorpha!




more adults


----------



## buthus

Pulk, great pics!

Latrodectus "Alicia sp."  
_ Latrodectus variegatus_??

























Ha! She tagged me!  She dropped and rolled from the enclosure to my puter desk.  I placed my had out for her to climb onto and as soon as she touched my fingertip, instead of climbing on, she latched on and bit in.  Felt a prick but didnt seem like she was able to dig in enough.  Fingertip itches a little, but no sign of the bite.  :clap:   Im full of scotch, nothing can hurt me now!   ...:?


----------



## spiders4life

The entire genus Latrodectus is illegal to keep in Denmark:wall: But here are my little girl staying with my cousin i Sweden:






Latrodectus hasselti

Regards Mikael


----------



## Sniper

Hi all!

Sorry for "half" off...

Any info or pics about Latrodectus sp "marokko"?! My friend (google) can't find 

Thanks


----------



## ninja250

here is one that i caught


----------



## AgentofKa

Hello everyone.  This thread has been quite informative.  There is one question that I have though.  Today, I went collecting in my backyard and happened upon was I thought was a geo.  It is tan with off white colored diamonds going down its abdomen.  I found it in the grass next to my shed.  It rolled into a ball after I caught it (I have this little toy bug vacuum that I bought my nephew and I use it more than he does, lol) and I have heard that this is a defense mechanism of widows.  I believed it to be dead.  I noticed that its abdomen didn't have a marking, at least a prominent one that I could discern a pattern from.  So, is this even a Lactrodectus?  Or perhaps is it some other genus that I may be confusing with Widows?  

I'd have a pic, but my camera is terribly crappy at actually taking pictures.  :wall:


----------



## Pulk

AgentofKa said:


> Hello everyone.  This thread has been quite informative.  There is one question that I have though.  Today, I went collecting in my backyard and happened upon was I thought was a geo.  It is tan with off white colored diamonds going down its abdomen.  I found it in the grass next to my shed.  It rolled into a ball after I caught it (I have this little toy bug vacuum that I bought my nephew and I use it more than he does, lol) and I have heard that this is a defense mechanism of widows.  I believed it to be dead.  I noticed that its abdomen didn't have a marking, at least a prominent one that I could discern a pattern from.  So, is this even a Lactrodectus?  Or perhaps is it some other genus that I may be confusing with Widows?
> 
> I'd have a pic, but my camera is terribly crappy at actually taking pictures.  :wall:


sounds like it might be Tidarren sp.


----------



## loxoscelesfear

*la ma*

found this behind a gas station in Ga.  we dont see em' much up north so I snagged it up out of a trash pile.


----------



## Pulk

revivensis


----------



## hauser

Latrodectus indistinctus mating


----------



## scorpion josh

Hey yall i have what is possibly a stupid question but i dont know much about spiders im a scorpion kinda guy... but my question is:   are the male just as venomous as the females? I heard and i think it may have been just an old wives tale that the males aren't venomous at all... could have been a myth, just curious

Josh


----------



## hauser

scorpion josh said:


> are the male just as venomous as the females?


no, they aren't that venomous and i doubt they can pierce human skin.


----------



## Burak

more pics please these are awesome pics


----------



## BertWright

*Lactro pics*

I agree with Burak - those are some AWESOME pictures - you must have a nice camera - and if it's digital, i must be a 100 megapixel.


----------



## crpy

beautiful


----------



## froggyman

are the widow species equally venomous or is there one that is a cut above in terms of potancy?


----------



## What

The different species have different cocktails of venom so, to humans, I am sure there is one leader in toxicity. Though for inverts it is probably totally different.


----------



## Venom

What is correct. We know that L.geo and L. pallidus are fairly low on the widow venom rankings. Conversely, I have read that L. tredecimguttatus is more toxic than average for a widow ( especially strong cramping effects ).


And you CAN get envenomated by a male Latrodectus sp., it just isn't nearly as bad ( they're small!! ).


----------



## jrlh84

This is my desk widow, Cuddlez.


----------



## buthus

:clap: Hesps love them bees! 

Well...geometricus has made its way up thru Orange County into Los Angeles.
This boy and girl was collected from my yard ...1st geo sighting in LA for me ...and Im always paying attention for such things.


----------



## 8+)

Yeah right, they're probably escapees!!! ;P


----------



## Burak

i wanna latrodectuses but im living in turkey and theese are dangerous spiders.i afraid i will not have any latrodectuses 'cause there is no antidote


----------



## buthus

Burak said:


> i wanna latrodectuses but im living in turkey and theese are dangerous spiders.i afraid i will not have any latrodectuses 'cause there is no antidote


Ive kept some Turkish girls ...treds.  Not really that dangerous.  ...no more then any other widow.  Easy to keep and keep in a safe way.  Ive handled them and never been bit ...at least not by any of my mid-east/Mediterranean flavors or North Americans.  Not that I know of anyway... my legs are always shaking and stomach aches all the time anyway.. probably wouldnt know the difference.     
Love to see some images of your local treds.  I bet theres one right outside your front door right at this moment.   :?


----------



## ErikWestblom

Burak said:


> i wanna latrodectuses but im living in turkey and theese are dangerous spiders.i afraid i will not have any latrodectuses 'cause there is no antidote


Like buhus said, and a bit won't be that dangerous unless you are a child or weak elderly.


----------



## Burak

buthus said:


> Ive kept some Turkish girls ...treds.  Not really that dangerous.  ...no more then any other widow.  Easy to keep and keep in a safe way.  Ive handled them and never been bit ...at least not by any of my mid-east/Mediterranean flavors or North Americans.  Not that I know of anyway... my legs are always shaking and stomach aches all the time anyway.. probably wouldnt know the difference.
> Love to see some images of your local treds.  I bet theres one right outside your front door right at this moment.   :?


sir,
ive never thougth to handling a latrodectus before  actually im really afraid of them.
and latrodectuses are illegal in Turkey{this is good i love destroy the rules}and there is another problem "shipment" if i take a decision about having a latr. and buy a widow it will probably die for cold or warm in the cargo. i do not trust cargo workers.

but 
having a bit must be funny



ErikWestblom said:


> Like buhus said, and a bit won't be that dangerous unless you are a child or weak elderly.


im just 17 years old


----------



## Raikiri

Burak said:


> and there is another problem "shipment" if i take a decision about having a latr. and buy a widow it will probably die for cold or warm in the cargo. i do not trust cargo workers.


If you order from Europe I'm sure it/they will arrive alive. I send packages to similar distances and also receive without any problems. And anyway the weather is perfect there.. Just order juveniles or subadult-adult widows.



> im just 17 years old


No problem.. You are in a very good age. And reactions to a bite depends on many things, perhaps a 60 years old man feel 'just' pain and a 20 years guy die. Who knows?  Also probably it can't bite you, I know some guys who were 'bitten' by Latrodectus spp., they can't bite through their skin.


----------



## Burak

ok. i'll try to having a bite it looks like amazing who knows i'll die

yes man weather is perfect here but planes are flying and high places colder than low places 
and if any widow escape here {turkey's climate is really useful for a widow} it will be really dangerous situation for other people {yess im really senstive person ^^} but one day i'll try it im sure that.its too early for me now.


----------



## Raikiri

I have received packages what came by plane. Air is cold, that's right, but inside the plane the temp. is ok. I know a guy who put a Testudo hermanni into his luggage and it arrived without a cold  And I think you can order packages what come by train and ship. You should better worry about opening packages on borders. IMO if you send to the same continent that's no problem, but I know if you send to Africa from Europe or from Africa to Europe it will be opened.

If widows are packed well none of them can escape. And if you are this careful guy, have you thought about how many animal can travel continents? Just think about shipping building materials. Perhaps the shipped materials were placed outside. It can conatin fertile eggsacs, spiders, scorpions, etc.


----------



## Burak

Raikiri said:


> I have received packages what came by plane. Air is cold, that's right, but inside the plane the temp. is ok. I know a guy who put a Testudo hermanni into hisluggage and it arrived without a cold  And I think you can order packages what come by train and ship. You should better worry about opening packages on borders. IMO if you send to the same continent that's no problem, but I know if you send to Africa from Europe or from Africa to Europe it will be opened.
> 
> If widows are packed well none of them can escape. And if you are this careful guy, have you thought about how many animal can travel continents? Just think about shipping building materials. Perhaps the shipped materials were placed outside. It can conatin fertile eggsacs, spiders, scorpions, etc.


thanks for informations,
im not perfect about being careful but i'll try im sure about that
i thing i'll buy from europe 'cause shipment is more confident than other places,isnt it?
and you are telling me ı could use train or ship,
but trains or ships have shaky cruising is that dangerous for widows?.


----------



## Raikiri

Well I prepare spiders for shipping in the following way: I choose a box what is not too big not too small and put handkerchiefs into the box. Then I put the spider into the box and add more handkerchiefs. This makes not much space where the spider can move, so even if somebody throw the box they can't harm. Most of the european breeders ship in the same way. I think it is perfect.


----------



## Burak

Raikiri said:


> Well I prepare spiders for shipping in the following way: I choose a box what is not too big not too small and put handkerchiefs into the box. Then I put the spider into the box and add more handkerchiefs. This makes not much space where the spider can move, so even if somebody throw the box they can't harm. Most of the european breeders ship in the same way. _I think it is perfect_.


i agree its really logical thanks again
if i buy tarantulas,widows or scorpions i'll tell them that way.
thanks again 
my best compliments.


----------



## SNiDE

Hello folks, this is my first post so forgive me if I'm mistaken, but I believe this to be Latrodectus Tredecimguttatus. My brother and I found it on the door of my parents house in south-eastern spain. Despite the lack of any markings, I'm quite confident of the ID as the species listed as similar in the area look alot different. Anywho, on with the pics:

Here she's curled up behind her eggsac, surrounded by a score of dead beatles. The beatles all had holes about 1cm in diameter drilled into the back of their heads.






Her playing dead with the dead male (I presume) on top of her (we had to move her away from the door as we have kids running through)


















I have a smaller specimen in captivity, will post up pics of her when her habitat is completed.


----------



## buthus

I would gamble L.lilianae.  I swear I see subtle squiggly lilianae patterning up-front dorsal ..and a splash further back.  ??
From what I gather, lububris / treds (all black morph) range much further east.


----------



## Chris.Nagel

Hello, 
Latrodectus this is very obvious form of a black tredecimguttatus. 
In lilianae is the musterung much stronger and extends to about the middle of the abdomens. 
lilianae comes in the region and almeria aragon in spain. 
lugubris is a pseudonym for tredecimguttatus was no more validity. 
Greeting Chri


----------



## 8+)

musterung = pattern?


----------



## buthus

Chris.Nagel said:


> Hello,
> Latrodectus this is very obvious form of a black tredecimguttatus.
> In lilianae is the musterung much stronger and extends to about the middle of the abdomens.
> lilianae comes in the region and almeria aragon in spain.
> lugubris is a pseudonym for tredecimguttatus was no more validity.
> Greeting Chri


:clap:  
Hey..Chris, dont you have a million or so posts here? ...only 12? 

Was informed once that lilianae could range (like treds can) from crazy bright markings to almost faded to black.  I would have to suppose that those could be mis-IDd treds ..since treds seem to cover alot of interesting ground when it comes to pattern trial n' error. Wish we over here had more access to widows from over there... just to learn more.  I really miss all my Mediterranean/mid-east species. Actually, kinda bums me out thinkin about it.  
Hey arnt you the man? ... you must have some decent pics of actual lilianae and different tred examples. Show us some stuff. The Latrodectus Renaissance is still going on ..just in a lull ..we need some inspiration!


----------



## Chris.Nagel

Musterung= Pattern.....Sorry
i have a translation prog. this dont know translate "Musterung".

greets chris


----------



## Chris.Nagel

*L. tredecimguttatus*

L. tredecimguttatus pattern variations:












i will post more ....


----------



## Chris.Nagel

Latrodectus tredecimguttatus:


----------



## Chris.Nagel

Latrodectus lilianae:


----------



## buthus

well there ya go! 

Hey.. a male lilianae :clap:  1st time ive seen a pic of one.  
Thanks Chris and great to see u around again.


----------



## 8+)

Just love the one from Antalya province, Turkey. :drool:


----------



## Chris.Nagel

Hi, I hope I 
more time is here and occasionally post. 
I always somewhat limited in time. 
have a few pictures for you tredecimguttatus


----------



## Bastian Drolshagen

Latrodectus vs. Steatoda


----------



## buthus

Great stuff guys! :worship: 
Up close and personal ...those Steatoda are sure ugly compared to latros...


----------



## golinveaux

I have a perfect L.mactans fat with 7 day fertile sac. I have kids in the house and can't take the chance with the slings getting loose. Would you be interested in having her and sac?


----------



## Gergo

Hello!
This is my beautiful mother widow (Latrodectus mactans mexicanus)







Gergo


----------



## Gergo

And she is her daughter:







and her son:







(I have a few yet)
Gergo


----------



## Elleken

Anyone got some slings they wanna send my way?


----------



## spiders4life

L hesperus mating


















Regards Mikael


----------



## xeno81

Excellent thread. More mating pics or vids please. Yes, I'm a pervert.:drool:


----------



## buthus

_Hesperus_ feeding on a _Pholcus (phalangioides?)_...


----------



## 8+)

Was this one of your "Spider Wars"? I see your using a jar... 

My Basement is just loaded with Pholcus, because of all the prey items I let escape. S. grossa is in second place, and I've found one Scytodes. Then there are the Scutigera coleoptrata. I have to clear the Pholcids out of my crix containers and enclosures where I have any babies.

I had read they sometimes win out over widows...


----------



## Geography Guy

*L. hesperus*

L. hesperus making a web


----------



## pitbulllady

Here's my latest _L. mactans_ acquisition, captured while wandering the hall at the school where I teach.  The janitor found her while sweeping, and as per my instructions, immediately went to the cafeteria and procured a souffle cup to scoop her into so he could bring her to me in my classroom, to the excitement of my Science class!  I had him take her out to my car, though, lest some parent pitch a fit about the crazy teacher keeping Black Widows in the classroom!  This one makes nine _Latrodactus_ I've go altogether now.  







pitbulllady


----------



## buthus

8+) said:


> Was this one of your "Spider Wars"? I see your using a jar...


No ...I just use them as feeders all the time.  


> I had read they sometimes win out over widows...


They do win out, but I no longer believe they prey on adult widows ...maybe now and then...but not healthy adult widows.  They win out by closing in on the widows webbing with theirs.  Their web is much too fine for the widow to navigate and the Pholcus themselves are perfectly designed to sneak around other spiders webbing.  The pholcus webbing probably mutes the ability for a widow to sense activity in their web along with the fact that they evade the widows space, snaggle incoming prey and generally mess things up all around ...I believe the widow usually moves on before it gets out of hand.  

Though I do think Pholcus (specifically their webbing) play an essential role in the distribution of hesperus, grossa and probably other theridid species.  Male grossa and hesperus use old and new Pholcus webbing to navigate safely over large spaces.  I also find slings crossing spances in my room using old dusty Pholcus web.  


Anywho..spider meat...its good spider food and its whats often for dinner.  :}


----------



## bhoeschcod

xeno81 said:


> Excellent thread. More mating pics or vids please. Yes, I'm a pervert.:drool:


So am i and the rest of my familly ]


----------



## davefoc

Hi folks, this is my second post (first was in the introduction thread) so I hope I don't do anything out of the acceptable around here.  I've been taking pictures in my backyard of various spiders (mostly brown widows) over the last several months.  This is my most interesting:






I had been taking pictures of this particular spider for a few months.  There had been a funnel web spider living behind her web.  I thought she was a black widow because she was black and there were two male black widows living in her nest.  (I posted pictures of them in the latrodectus hesperus section of wikimedia).

Anyway my buddy came over and threw a moth into her web.  Both the funnel web and she moved out to capture the moth.  The funnel web spider moved back and the widow wrapped up the moth in less than a minute (I wanted to take a movie but before I could get my camera in movie mode it was over).  And I thought that was it.  I came back out in about a half hour and the funnel web was no more and there were these mysterious egg like things attached to the moth.  By this time I had also noticed that there were several brown widow looking males in the web that had probably been there all along but were farther back in the recess and they are quite a bit smaller than than the black widow males so I hadn't noticed them.

So these are my questions:
1. What are the egg like looking things and where did they come from?  I think Latrodectus deposit their eggs directly into the egg sacs so I don't think they are Latrodectus eggs, but they sort of look like them based on a Latrodectus egg laying video I just saw.  Are they funnel web spider eggs?  Maybe her instinct to lay eggs got the better of her and when she was about her business the brown widow pounced?

2. Is this a brown widow?  I believe it is (but I'm not sure) because:
a. The hour glass is orangey red (not black widow dark red) and it has a yellow stripe.  I uploaded a ventral view if anybody's interested.
b. The males look a whole lot different than black widow males and they were closer to the female than the black widow males.  I notice brown widow males hanging out in brown widow nests a lot.  The two clearly black widows in my yard don't have permanent male visitors that I've noticed.
c. It was somewhat smaller than the obvious black widows in my yard.
d. I've noticed this front swoosh on dark brown and black - suspected brown widows hanging out in my yard.
But maybe it's not because:
a. There were male black widows hanging out in the nest.
b. It was almost completely black.
c. Several similar images on the web are identified as black widows.

ETA: I meant to mention how amazing a lot of the images in this thread are.  I had no idea the end of the male pedipalp unwound like that (sorry I don't know correct terminology right now).


----------



## davefoc

Nobody answered the questions in the post above.  Perhaps because my questions were lame or maybe people were just uncertain of the answers.

I think I know the answer to the question as to whether the spider is a brown widow or a black widow now.  I'll post the answer in a few days just in case anybody would like to provide their answer first.

A UCSD professor was kind enough to provide a theory as to what the eggs were.  Apparently, some spiders when under threat will lay their eggs without making a sac first.  His thought was that one of the spiders in the heat of battle laid the eggs as sort of a last ditch effort to get her progeny to live on.


----------



## buthus

Gotta guess..semi-adult (1 more molt) fem hesperus ...thus the orangeish glass and prominent herring bone marking. 
The male?  ...wanna say its a geo.  If that were the case he'd be just checkin out a possible future exotic lover.    The male could be hesperus ...need a better image ...maybe top view... to check out his pattern. ...still, though, gotta say that looks like some of the geo males ive had.


----------



## davefoc

Thanks for the response bruthus.

You were right.  I have mostly brown widows in my backyard and had noticed that they all had the orangey read hourglasses with the yellow stripe.  So I began to wonder if this nearly all black spider that had the very similar hour glass wasn't a brown widow also.

The mystery for me had gone on for  a few months when I got an email from a San Diego professor who I had contacted with a comment about how common brown widow spiders were in Orange Country, CA.

Anyway I decided to try to get to the bottom of this and I sent him the picture with a question about whether he thought it was a brown or black widow.  Before he responded, I decided to try and find out for myself.  I hadn't seen the spider for a month or so and I thought she had died in the rains or the cold of late.  So I picked up the block over her retreat expecting to find a brown widow nest.

What was their was a very much alive widow and a clearly black widow nest.  Unfortunately as she darted for cover I dropped the block and probably smashed her.

The professor responded that he suspected that the male in the picture was probably a hesperus male.  This surprised me because they were about half the length of the larger clearly black widow males that had been hanging out in the web throughout most of the summer.

So now I am wondering if the orangey red hour glass with the yellow stripe isn't typical of immature L. hesperus and they acquire the more classic red hour glass without any sign of a yellow stripe on their last molt?  I had read that there was a large range in the size of black widow males but this size difference really surprised me.  The larger ones (not shown in the image) were probably about 6 mm.  The male here might be 3.5 mm.  Unless of course the smaller males were just brown widow males that had lost their way like you suggested.

There was another spider that I was following that looked quite similar to this one but it was a solid dark brown with a very similar swoosh in front of its abdomen to the one this one has.  Do L. hesperus come in a dark brown version as well as the black version?


----------



## Apophis




----------



## Nich

Awesome pictures guys.
Im awaiting my second batch of mactans mexicanus and some australian sp.....Im dying. Anyone else here have some redbacks, these seem to be very sensitive to inbreeding from my experiences.


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## Raikiri

Nich said:


> Anyone else here have some redbacks, these seem to be very sensitive to inbreeding from my experiences.


I have redbacks, and never had any problems with inbreeding. From my experiences it is a very 'strong' species.


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## Nich

Raikiri said:


> I have redbacks, and never had any problems with inbreeding. From my experiences it is a very 'strong' species.


Hmm, must have been my music or something then...lol. I look forward to working with them this year, maybe this time I can make some progress.


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## Nich

*Simply beautiful*

On another thread, but I figured they fit better here...

menavodi


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## Tarantulysis

I live in northeast Ohio and Ive never been able to find any,but Ive been looking for about 35 years!


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## burmish101

I live in northeast ohio too and have only seen one when I was a kid on my house outside. Never seen one or heard of one around here either:8o  I'd love to get some L. variolus in my collection, its probably highest on my 'want' list but I never seen one for sale.


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## bluefrogtat2

*a few of my widows*

mactans(tennesee)





mactans (florida)






hasselti






bishopi





andy


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## bluefrogtat2

*more widows*

L.tredecimuguttatus





L.variolus





L.m.mexicanus





L.pallidus





andy


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## recluse

Love the Latros. Beautiful pics.


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## SNiDE

Hi all, awesome photos, hopefully not too off topic but does anyone have any reliable knowledge as to the potency of the bite of tredecimguttatus? A travel book I have suggests it is not too bad and doesnt require medical attention, but others have said otherwise. cheers


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## A.iodius

Great pictures. I have a female L. hesperus that is completely black not even a sign of red on her. She produced 2 egg sacs for me shortly after I got her which I released back into the area where she was collected. I am hoping she lays another with hind sight I realize I should have kept some slings to see if I could continue to produce the entirely black coloration. I will try to post some pics at some point if I can ever get around to taking any.


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## buthus

A.iodius said:


> Great pictures. I have a female L. hesperus that is completely black not even a sign of red on her. She produced 2 egg sacs for me shortly after I got her which I released back into the area where she was collected. I am hoping she lays another with hind sight I realize I should have kept some slings to see if I could continue to produce the entirely black coloration. I will try to post some pics at some point if I can ever get around to taking any.


From my experience with 3 "nil" to greatly reduced hr glass hesps, only a very small percentage of their surviving offspring retained mommys special feature.  Raising 80-99% may yield 1 or few extremes. ...lotsa work   ...and the rub may be that ANY hesperus female may produce the same deal anyway.  The goal would have to be ..to find out if there (at the very least) seems to be a greater percentage of "glassless/lessglass" offspring produced from a special female..ie..genetically passed down trait vs. just a "phase" thats always being played out within the specie.


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## xnightmayerx

My L. mactans







sorry couldnt get a good picture of the hourglass ill get one soon enough


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## Rick McJimsey

_Latrodectus tredecimguttatus_






_Latrodectus bishopi_


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## Apophis




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## SNiDE

Latrodectus tredecimguttatus [again]


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## SNiDE

Pet tred.!


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## Rick McJimsey

_Latrodectus geometricus_





Male w/ female


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## Rick McJimsey

_Latrodectus bishopi_


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## Rick McJimsey

_Latrodectus tredecimguttatus_


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## Rick McJimsey

Again..


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## SNiDE

You, sir, have larger balls than I


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## Rick McJimsey

SNiDE said:


> You, sir, have larger balls than I


They are still quite small  (The treds that is) 

Male


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## Rick McJimsey




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## Rick McJimsey

_Latrodectus pallidus_





_Latrodectus geometricus_





_Latrodectus mactans_










_Latrodectus hesperus_


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## Rick McJimsey

Latrodectus hesperus, male.


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## 8+)

Nice shot! :clap:


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## Rick McJimsey

8+) said:


> Nice shot! :clap:


Thanks!

_Latrodectus mactans_ sling


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## swatc1h

really miss all my widows. nows not the time but soon. :}


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## ophiophagus

L.mactans






Aussie redback











L.bishopi


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## Widowman10

wish i had a camera like yours rick...

nice shots everyone!!


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## Widowman10

*some latro pics*

hmmm, don't quite remember if i've posted in this thread before :? oh well, here goes some of my favorites:

my favorite pic:






one of many hesp matings:






a nice light geo:






a beautiful mac with great markings:






a pinch attempt going south in a hurry:






another shot of a mac:






a fun little comparison of latros and steatodas:












a big ole male variolus:






bishopi (of course!):












silver hesp:






MM white hesp:






tred sling:






L. pallidus:


















dark geo:






hasselti mating:






and the flip:


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## Rick McJimsey

Nice pics, Widowman!
Few new ones










Rather large..





One of my favs so far..





mactans x tredecimguttatus eggs





pallidus





geometricus


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## Rick McJimsey

More pallidus


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## SNiDE

Nice pics dude.
Tredecimguttatus-


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## Tleilaxu

Here are some updated widow pics, both spiders molted. I lost the others, oops.













Now here is something REALLY cool, the spider thats getting eaten in this pic was dead for at least four days before the widow decided to pic it off the floor and eat it, the widow did not touch it until after its molt, in which during that time this larger spider died, and to top it off the widow had previously been fed a fresher prey item, so its not like it was starving or anything.







BTW widowman the nearly mature female widow you sent is doing well too


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## JPJ

Here are a few pics that I took behind my house this past summer, and although the spider pictured is NOT a Black Widow or even Lactrodectus for that matter but rather a widow mimic, it is still a very nice specimen.


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## JPJ

Hey check this out... It even has a red hourglass like a black widow.


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## Rick McJimsey

Uhh..what makes you think it _isn't_ a Latrodectus species?


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## xhexdx

JPJ said:


> Hey check this out... It even has a red hourglass like a black widow.


That's...because...it...*is*...a...black...widow...


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## JPJ

LOL... I'm just messin with you guys.
I was just wondering how long it would take before I got called on it.
L. Mactans... they are everywhere here.


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## The Spider Faery

Tleilaxu said:


> Here are some updated widow pics, both spiders molted. I lost the others, oops.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm was wondering, what kind of widow is this in these pics?


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## buthus

Hesperus...with a few molts to go.


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## buthus

Bishopi sling feeding on termite...






1st gen from WC gravid female.. mate...





























Sac has been produced... looks good maybe ...very small.


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## Tleilaxu

Here is a photo series I made into a "movie form" of my Black Widow molting. Its a young female L. hesperus. Infact its the same spider I posted recently...

[YOUTUBE]kBmrfYswtA8[/YOUTUBE]


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## Widowman10

nice progression of shots, in movie form! always fun to watch a molt. plus, you can tell when they're about to do it  love it!!


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## xeno81

I can't help but feel like I have widow fetish. Excellent up close mating shots. Love to see a vid of that coupling. Amazing pics.:drool:


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## pnshmntMMA

GREAT pictures, i could sure use a good camera. do you guys use the micro setting or whatever its called? also, my uncle found a black widow last summer/fall in his yard, and we live north of baltimore, i didnt know they were around here. could this be a freak occurance? i mean i dont see a spider just randomly making it this far north. i assume id have some luck searching for one this year. what do you guys think?


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## Widowman10

L. variolus range really far north.

and i use the macro setting when i take pics.


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## John Apple

Widowman10 said:


> L. variolus range really far north.
> 
> and i use the macro setting when i take pics.


up into canada they are


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## neubii18

Would anyone be intrested in selling a sub adult male western or two?preferably someone in so cal that can ship cheaply.


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## Maxorz

This I think is a L. mactans. Found it last summer with a friend at the beach. I actually didn't know we had them here, so I thought it just looked similar to it. Then when I got back from the beach and checked on my computer, I was quite surprised!


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## Widowman10

yep! nice female mac there, she looks very dehydrated/hungry though, or she just got done dropping a sac!


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## neubii18

here is one of my 2 female L.Hesperus.and a pic of my setups.tell me what you guys think.also,i would love to see some other peoples setups.


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## neubii18

woa!i just noticed the picture of the setup that theres another spider in there!it looked like one of my funnel web grass spiders.i ran to the cage and sure enough there was one in there,but he was wrapped up in webs and dead...i have more though.i catch them outside.i dont know how he got in there.


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## _timisdrunk_

Has anyone ever cross bred Lactrodectus sp? Like say a mactans X hasselti?


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## What

http://www.european-arachnology.org/proceedings/13th/215-222_Schmidt.pdf


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## mandipants

Sweet pictures!  :worship:


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## Widowman10

thanks for posting the link what, i was just about to do that. there has also been further crossing beyond what that paper covered, if you do a search on here buthus has done a lot of work with it, and on a different site, another guy has done a few beyond that. all to say, none were ever successful


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## buthus

Widowman10 said:


> if you do a search on here buthus has done a lot of work with it, l


um.. not really (not that i dont appreciate the mention ).  
"A lot of work" imo means, at the very least..multiple attempts with specific purpose, documentation, repeatable conditions...etc.  
Mostly I added males to females and watched for reactions (if any) and with a 'few' attempts I allowed things to progress beyond that.


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## Widowman10

by a lot of work i meant multiple pairings between different species. seems like you did more pairings than in the paper!


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## buthus

Widowman10 said:


> by a lot of work i meant multiple pairings between different species. seems like you did more pairings than in the paper!


That paper didnt seem like too much work either ... 
..but, at least it was documentation of some experiments with specific purpose.  I gotta go back and look at my photos to jog my memory   ...bad science.


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## neubii18

where do you guys get all of these species from?i can only find mactans for sale.anyone have any species other than hesperus and mactans they'd sell?pm me if you do please!!!!


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## JC

asn1234 said:


> where do you guys get all of these species from?i can only find mactans for sale.anyone have any species other than hesperus and mactans they'd sell?pm me if you do please!!!!


Check out Ken's site. He had some Latrodectus tredecimguttatus not too long ago.


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## Crysta

heres some photos, wonder what kind it is? ... it isn't very hourglass shaped on the bum.
Pictures taken in southern Croatia 

video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6V-HLLF7AJA


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## Widowman10

CF, looks like your widow could be L. tredecimguttatus.

pretty color variation, btw.


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## Crysta

Widowman10 said:


> CF, looks like your widow could be L. tredecimguttatus.
> 
> pretty color variation, btw.


Thanks for the ID! I never knew widows could get this big till I saw them the day I took this pictures! It was such and exciting find. 
Silly thing is, I noticed they where EVERYWHERE after I found the first one. haha. 
I think she was gravid!


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## Widowman10

CentipedeFreak said:


> Thanks for the ID! I never knew widows could get this big till I saw them the day I took this pictures! It was such and exciting find.


the treds are some of the larger widows. they can get absolutely MASSIVE. thick-bodied, long-legged. the sacs are also very large, about 7/8" by 1/2". much bigger than the NA species. 



CentipedeFreak said:


> Silly thing is, I noticed they where EVERYWHERE after I found the first one. haha.
> I think she was gravid!


haha, once you find 1 or 2, you know what to look for and start seeing a whole lot more!


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## Crysta

Widowman10 said:


> the treds are some of the larger widows. they can get absolutely MASSIVE. thick-bodied, long-legged. the sacs are also very large, about 7/8" by 1/2". much bigger than the NA species.
> 
> 
> 
> haha, once you find 1 or 2, you know what to look for and start seeing a whole lot more!



Hehe no wonder she doesn't have an hourglass shape ;D 

I hope to go back to croatia someday  can't wait. hehe I wonder if vancouver has interesting spiders ? hmmm *googles...* lol

Thanks for the help!


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## presurcukr

My L.geo


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## Venom

CentipedeFreak said:


> Hehe no wonder she doesn't have an hourglass shape ;D


ROFL!!!!

Bwaahahaahhahha!!!

Wow...that is the funniest thing I have read in a long time! :clap::clap::clap:  Well said. :worship:


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## JC

Widowman10 said:


> the treds are some of the larger widows. they can get absolutely MASSIVE. thick-bodied, long-legged. the sacs are also very large, about 7/8" by 1/2". much bigger than the NA species.
> !


Widowman, what other Latrodectus sp. gets their size, if any?


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## Widowman10

JC said:


> Widowman, what other Latrodectus sp. gets their size, if any?


i believe dahli are supposedly the largest species there is. 

buthus had some treds (maybe? who knows, could be revs?) that were pretty tiny. mine were absolutely massive though. legspan was just the same if not longer than the southeastern variolus (which are the largest NA widows), but the CL, and leg thickness completely dwarfs any others i've seen.


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## JC

Widowman10 said:


> i believe dahli are supposedly the largest species there is.
> 
> buthus had some treds (maybe? who knows, could be revs?) that were pretty tiny. mine were absolutely massive though. legspan was just the same if not longer than the southeastern variolus (which are the largest NA widows), but the CL, and leg thickness completely dwarfs any others i've seen.


Thanks for the insight.


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## Venom

This discussion of relative sizes has me intrigued. I am wondering, now, if we can use CL and/or other body measurements to estimate which Latro spp. have the largest venom yields.


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## Swedish_Ingrid

*Sheniqua, my adorable L. Hesperus*

I have a lovely, plump L. Hesperus. She enjoys eating waxworms, crickets and other bugs. She frequently practices her "olive with toothpicks stuck in it" impression. So cute. Pics to follow soon.


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## jsloan

My _L. geometricus_ died tonight.  Before putting it in alcohol I snapped a few "morgue" pictures.


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## insect714

**

 Sorry for your loss.  The L. geometricus are a beautiful spider I have had many of them, and as for a widow its up there is the L. Bishopi and L. Pallidus as far as not being the "Norm." of widows...


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## recluse

Yummmmmmmmm.................widows


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## sfpearl300z

May as well add some to the archive:

L. geometricus


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## SpiderShadowz




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## Great Basin Ben

P. Novak said:


> Another Question, where do all of you have the most luck finding L.hesperus?


Inside of the Warehouse I work in, on the West side of Reno, NV!!! I've now got a collection of several DOZEN, with (3) more just located today, to "re-locate" to containers on my desk!!! You gotta love working for an enviro-friendly company (well sometimes,) that doesn't believe in spraying for bugs!;P


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## bluefrogtat2

L.tredecimuguttatus










Andy


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## xhexdx

L. bishopi:

Reactions: Like 1


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## John Koerner

Beautiful shots, Joe!

I was fortunate enough to meet Joe yesterday, on a trip with G.B. Edwards, where not only did we find this stunning Red Widow ... but we found a new species of spider as well 

Jack


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## Widowman10

interesting bishopi X, thanks for sharing


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## rvtjonny




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## xhexdx

L. bishopi update:


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## recluse

I have been wanting L. bishopi for years. You should send some of those my way.


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## Widowman10

very nice X! slings should be pretty good size when they emerge too!


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## The Spider Faery

xhexdx:  Is that the bishopi you found on your field trip?  Do you have a license to ship across borders?  If so, send some to Tarantula Canada!


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## xhexdx

Thanks guys. 



xhexdx said:


> L. bishopi update:


Another update:











cyanocean said:


> xhexdx:  Is that the bishopi you found on your field trip?  Do you have a license to ship across borders?  If so, send some to Tarantula Canada!


Yes.  No.  Sorry!


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## Widowman10

nice, X! those are some really good lookin bishopi sacs :}


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## xhexdx

Thank you sir.

Any idea how long after laying until they hatch?


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## Widowman10

xhexdx said:


> Thank you sir.
> 
> Any idea how long after laying until they hatch?


depending on many external variables: a little over a month 

and bishopi slings are almost twice the size of mac/hesp slings too!


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## The Spider Faery

xhexdx said:


> Yes.  No.  Sorry!


Aw, it was worth a shot.  She's a very beautiful mamma.


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## xhexdx

Widowman10 said:


> depending on many external variables: a little over a month
> 
> and bishopi slings are almost twice the size of mac/hesp slings too!


Ok, great.  Thanks.


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## Widowman10

shameless plug: check out MY SITE if you haven't had a chance to yet


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## xhexdx

Went there once, didn't look around much.  I need to look again.

This is from the 9th:







This is from today:

Reactions: Like 1


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## Widowman10

great lookin babies X 

love those little guys :clap:


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## John Koerner

Just caught this beautiful Red Widow yesterday 

Jack




.


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## Widowman10

WOW.











gorgeous pictures. i think i literally salivated on my keyboard.


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## John Koerner

Widowman10 said:


> WOW.
> 
> gorgeous pictures. i think i literally salivated on my keyboard.



Thank you & glad you like them ... here is a more "natural" shot I took of her today 







*Red Widow* (_Latrodectus bishopi_)
Canon EOS 7D | EF 180mm f/3.5L Macro Lens
1/20 | f/10 | ISO 320
Natural Light | Tripod | Remote Switch​

Taken in natural light, under cloud cover, using a 2-image stack done by hand.

Jack



.


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## Vespula

These pictures are gorgeous! Makes me want to raise a whole bunch of 'em!  hehe.


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## amtzzero

Is this an albino black widow?














My camera sucks, sorry.


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## pavel

*another Latrodectus bishopi set of pics*

This is my little one.  Got it from John Apple this past July.  Fast grower.  It has already molted twice.


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## Widowman10

amtzzero:

Nope. just a white-ish geometricus aka brown widow.


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## Geometricus

*Extreme close up of cocoon*

This is a SEM of a L geometricus cocoon. Anyone else have SEMs of cocoons or spiders?


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## Widowman10

hmmm, there's a SEM of a variolus sac here:
https://sites.google.com/site/widowman10/eggsacs (first picture)


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## Vfox

I took some images of the immature L. variolus I found a few days ago. And yes she is sitting on a groundhog jawbone. I happen to find it when I found her and she has seemingly adopted it as a perch.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Petross

L.hesperus is really nice one


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## Leeway337

I live in Central California and the only widow we have is L Hesperus. All the ones I find look a lot different from the ones in these pics. I have never seen a Hesperus without a full hourglass. Also the markings that are on the backs of these I have never seen on a Hesperus at any stage.

The ones in these pics I think is Variolus or Mactans.

didn't realize this was so old and had 40+ pages. This was in reference to the first set of pics starting the thread. oh well...


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## Widowman10

many hesperus will have a partial or separated hourglass. heck, some will even have little or no hourglass at all!

juvenile hesperus will also very oftentimes exhibit strong dorsal markings and coloration. hesperus markings (patterns) look a bit different than variolus.


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## buthus

old image, but this one was collected south of los angeles. ...a distant speck of red, but pretty much no glass at all...






a couple hesp from the great state of Texas ...adults but retaining dorsal markings...





...dead...but still so pretty...


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## aSpiderificGirl

Beautiful Western Widows you've got there!


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## khil

Does anyone know where there are black widows near the bay area? I have a couple females I've had for over a year and want to try to find a mate.


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## Anonymity82

xhexdx said:


> Went there once, didn't look around much.  I need to look again.
> 
> This is from the 9th:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is from today:


I know this old but LOOK AT ALL THOSE RED BABIES! They're so awesome looking!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Anonymity82

Aint she a beaut! 

View attachment 113380


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## buthus

went to a 'bug' peoples gathering with some spiders to 'demo' a few years ago...and decided to pull out one of of the reds i had and talk about its niche and whatnot while it crawled around my hand/arm. They mostly never bite...so what the hell ...pretty as fck and some attention grabbing showmanship. eh!??  Thing suddenly decided to let go of all, ball up and drop.  I was on my knees...so it only probably dropped a few ft at best ...died a couple hrs later.  Most likely from internal injury in abdomen.
FUNNY.. cause i joked that I could have killed her from a little thump like that ..put her back in her cup ...thinkn ...hmmm ...i wonder if i f'up?! 
Careful ...they be fragile


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## Ciphor

Its a freak thing but happens. I drop my true spiders all the time from standing distance (so about 3-5 foot fall) and I've never seen a spider die due to it. A friend of mine on the other hand, has her spiders die all the time from drops while handling. Weird stuff!


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## antinous

njnolan1 said:


> Aint she a beaut!
> 
> View attachment 113380


Love the colors on her! Are they hard to keep?


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## Tarantula155

Old ones I used to have when I lived in Colorado.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Anonymity82

theReptileGuy said:


> Love the colors on her! Are they hard to keep?


Not at all. I keep them just like I keep my others. Mostly dry and well fed. Weekly misting. If their abdomens look plump, shiny and healthy I think they're doing good. I bought two of these for 10 bucks each! Great deal, they usually go for like 30+ bucks, from this guy on another forum. A friend of mine found the guy. I have to look up in my charts but I think only one of them molted once. It's been long enough so I'm pretty sure the other one isn't going to molt and is an adult. 

I keep them in mini KKs like my other widows. They eventually build the same exact type of webs. The reds tend to be a little less aggressive when feeding than the mactans are.


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## Salticstance

*Red widow in natural habitat*

This is a picture that I took ten years ago, but I thought it was worth sharing again. It's a red widow with her eggsac in a scrub oak habitat.

Reactions: Like 4


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## menavodi

That is a great picture!


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## pannaking22

Beautiful! These widows look great! I'm going to have wander a couple hours south and see if I can get a few this year


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## FatherOfWidows

Man I wish I could get as good as pictures as others but mine always suck


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Rick McJimsey

Latrodectus bishopi (all mature females)






































Latrodectus hesperus, adult female

Reactions: Like 3


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## Widowman10

good to see ya posting some pics again rick! good lookin fems!


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## Rick McJimsey

Thanks Brian! I've got some fun Latrodectus plans this year. :biggrin:

Latrodectus bishopi

Reactions: Like 2


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## Rick McJimsey

Latrodectus hesperus



















Latrodectus bishopi

Reactions: Like 5


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## Widowman10

Wow, great photo capturing the sticky globs. Love it!!


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## pannaking22

Those sticky globs are crazy! Great up-close pic!


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## ArachnidSentinl

_L. mactans_


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## Harashil

Female Latrodectus cf pallidus (White Widow) feeding on an adult male Buthus mariefranceae in Morocco.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Widowman10

Man, seems like these latros can catch and eat anything! Great shot. Love the pallidus too, especially their dome retreat.


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## FatherOfWidows

Hey widowman10 I have a couple of egg sacks from my southern widow but they haven't been hatching at all. Could they be dead?


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## Widowman10

They could be, if it's been longer than 2 months. Have they turned dark at all?


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## FatherOfWidows

Yeah there were a light yellowish then turned brown. I dissected one and the eggs were dry and hard


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## Widowman10

ok, they will turn dark for 2 reasons- development or decay. i know SC is usually pretty humid, but is the place you kept them really dry or hot?

it's fairly rare that mactans will drop dud sacs.


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## FatherOfWidows

Was humid but I tried to keep them 75-80


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## Beteigeuze

*Latrodectus species Mexiko*

hey guys, i kept these spiders a view years ago, they look like Latrodectus m. "mexicanus" but they grown bigger and there are other lil differences..
anybody who can tell the exact species? 
greetings Chris (sorry for my bad english)










other one with less markings

Reactions: Like 4


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## Python

Reminds me of a hellfire widow (sp. laos if I remember correctly). Beauty though

Reactions: Like 1


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## Beteigeuze

*Latrodectus species Mexiko*

juvenil:
















greetings

Reactions: Like 3


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## Beteigeuze

*Latrodectus hesperus Texas*

Subadult bright Female:







Same female Adult with Eggsack

Reactions: Like 3


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## Widowman10

eggsac looks very much like a hesperus! did any of the females from post #636 drop any eggsacs?


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## Beteigeuze

No, no eggsac from the 'mexicans'


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## Beteigeuze

*Latrodectus hesperus offspring*

Reactions: Like 2


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## Beteigeuze

*Latrodectus hesperus texas offspring*

One very beautiful offspring of mine :biggrin:







greetings

Reactions: Like 1


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## Python

That is gorgeous. I would love to get some of those.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Hanska

_Latrodectus obscurior_, Madagasgar
Just got this and two _L.hasselti_

Reactions: Like 1


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## Hanska

Two more

Reactions: Like 2


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## FatherOfWidows

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Reactions: Like 2


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## Hanska

L.obscurior





L.hasselti

Reactions: Like 3


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## remainpositive

Sorry that its poor quality but she's working on her 15th sack!


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## Widow lover

*L. Mactans with egg sack and big meal*




This is Alice one of my Mactans adult females. She has laid 6 egg sacks so far and will do so nearly 
every other time she is fed her favorite meal (grub worms )


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## Tarantula155

A gorgeous female I caught a while back


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## Widow lover

L. Bishopi


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## andrewctonus

Subadult male L. variolus I caught last year


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## andrewctonus

Some widow pics!
Variolus:










Curacaviensis:


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## andrewctonus

Nearly patternless L. variolus

Reactions: Like 2


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## Biollantefan54

Latrodectus mactans

Reactions: Like 1


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## Tarantula155

Male Latrodectus variolus I'm preparing to breed with my female who's still too young


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## Biollantefan54

*The tiny one on the top is an L. mactans, the one on the bottom left is the L. variolus and the one on the right is also an L. variolus*






*Latrodectus variolus*

Reactions: Like 2


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## Tarantula155

Male Latrodectus variolus: 







And his mate  :


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## oneiric

heres my big fat L.hesperus found in oregon

before and after last molt:



her now:

Reactions: Like 1


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## oneiric

and another smaller female (about one/third the size)




and both of them together, both after meals

Reactions: Like 1


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## oneiric

small female found in texas (unfortunately she escaped)

Reactions: Like 1


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## menavodi

L. curacaviensis, the male cleaning his bulb. One of my better pictures I took many years ago.

Reactions: Like 4


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## JohnWhite

gdfelas said:


> *Can We Get Some More Latodectus Pics !!!!*
> 
> id like to see more L. enclosures. Or just cool pics. some new ones i know there are a bunch on here but only a few compared to T pics. Plus looking for ideas with my new widows.


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## JohnWhite

My female Latrodectus bishopi looking for a mature male


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## Daveyig

Widow2



__ Daveyig
__ Jul 24, 2016
__ 2


















Widow1



__ Daveyig
__ Jul 24, 2016
__ 1





I have this new interest in spiders all of the sudden, and felt like I needed to get out onto some forums and explore the arachnoworld. I didn't realize that there is actually an interest in common spiders. I spent a few minutes browsing the page, and decided to go out and snap some pics out around my property. Hope you enjoy.

Reactions: Like 6


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## Scoly

Latrodectus tredicimguttatus

Reactions: Like 6 | Love 1


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## Ungoliant

Edit: I just noticed the date, but I'll leave this up in case anyone finds it helpful.



Venom said:


> Out of curiosity, what's the difference between L. hesperus and L. mactans ? Size ? Markings ?


_Latrodectus mactans_ (the southern black widow) and _Latrodectus hesperus_ (the western black widow) are closely related and similar in appearance. Some differences:

*range*: mactans is a southern species that occurs in the eastern and central U.S.; hesperus occurs in the western half of the country. (Their range overlaps around Texas and Oklahoma.) See this map.
*markings*: Unfortunately, separation (or lack thereof) of the hourglass marking is not a reliable way to distinguish between these two species, as both typically have a complete or connected hourglass. (_Latrodectus variolus_ typically has an incomplete or disconnected hourglass.) However, there are some subtle differences. Hesperus usually has a more symmetrical hourglass, with the top being a mirror image of the bottom. In mactans, the bottom (posterior half) of the hourglass often looks wider and less triangular than the top. For examples, see Widowman's site.
*size*: mactans tends to be a little smaller than hesperus.
*egg sacs*: mactans makes grey spherical egg sacs; hesperus makes tan pear-shaped egg sacs

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Esherman81

nice looking spider

Reactions: Sad 1


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## LilTwister123

Kugellager said:


> She came fertile when she was given to me by someone who collected her by their house. Though I did find a male widow in my coat closet a few months back. The males live only a month or two after their final  molt and usually don't eat.
> 
> All the egg sacs I have kept have been fertile and have hatched 100's of spiderlings.  I have a vial with 3 sacs in it now and 2 of the 3 have hatched.  I have noticed that when the egg sacs are nearing time to hatch, if I lightly mist the side of the vial the egg sac hatches with in one day.
> 
> I am allowing the older slings to consume the newer hatchlings with the idea of getting only a few adult spiders out of the group.  Most of slings that have hatched  I have let go back into the wild in various wild places away from people.
> 
> John
> ];')


I would love to buy a female off of you when you have bigger babies and I have more money. I haven't had the luck of finding my own yet. I have a gravid L geometricus ( brown widow) but that's all.


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## Jimmy Jamblez

You guys have some serious photography skills and macro lenses happening. I'm going to upgrade my camera equipment soon too haha. For now, here's some Samsung Galaxy S6 camera action.

I have two Widows (Red Backs here in Sydney). Here's my new mama.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Esherman81

Pretty widows ..some day I will have one


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## RebelWolf

Jimmy Jamblez said:


> You guys have some serious photography skills and macro lenses happening. I'm going to upgrade my camera equipment soon too haha. For now, here's some Samsung Galaxy S6 camera action.
> 
> I have two Widows (Red Backs here in Sydney). Here's my new mama.
> 
> View attachment 233934
> View attachment 233935


Wow, nice looking redbacks right there

Reactions: Like 1


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## cbotable

Any chance someone can confirm that this is not Latrodectus?  Previous pictures of it had been identified as a juvenile male.  I was quite surprised as the species has been seen around here but I believe it's uncommon. 
I don't typically like to disturb wild spiders but it was taken down to get better shots and it quickly became apparent that this spider was likely not male or juvenile.  Teeny tiny spiderlings can be seen around it. 
I still wasn't able to get the best shots but hopefully there's enough to get an idea of what I'm working with.
Thanks!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Arthropapa

My L. hesperus. Her name is Dancing Queen!

Reactions: Like 3


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## nageuse

Kugellager said:


> She came fertile when she was given to me by someone who collected her by their house. Though I did find a male widow in my coat closet a few months back. The males live only a month or two after their final  molt and usually don't eat.
> 
> All the egg sacs I have kept have been fertile and have hatched 100's of spiderlings.  I have a vial with 3 sacs in it now and 2 of the 3 have hatched.  I have noticed that when the egg sacs are nearing time to hatch, if I lightly mist the side of the vial the egg sac hatches with in one day.
> 
> I am allowing the older slings to consume the newer hatchlings with the idea of getting only a few adult spiders out of the group.  Most of slings that have hatched  I have let go back into the wild in various wild places away from people.
> 
> John
> ];')


Wow. So you received a wild fertilized female widow, and she had so much stored sperm that, with enough food, she could produce several sacs. In the summer of 2015, Detroit, I entertained a wild Argiope aurantia on my porch and invited all the neighbor kids to come feed her. She made 2 huge sacs with all that food. She actually freed grasshoppers when she was well fed.


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## Flexzone

_*---*_

Reactions: Like 1


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## RebelWolf

Arthropapa said:


> View attachment 262326
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My L. hesperus. Her name is Dancing Queen!


L. hesperus seem to be the most beautiful species of widow spider to me. My favorite specie

Reactions: Like 1


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## Atx512



Reactions: Like 1


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## Jimmy Jamblez

Whoa Atx512 mate those photos are brilliant. I wish I could take pics like that. Excellent home as well. That cricket is a goner haha.

I've recently cleaned out one of my terrariums and reduced my Red Back's home to a more "flat" area so that she can set her trip wires properly as she was having issues with webbing in the old set up.

Here she is (apologies for my photo quality).

Reactions: Like 2


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## Atx512

Thanks for the comment and wish we had some red backs like you have. I dont mind the hr. glass on ours here but seeing all the different kinds out there makes me a lil jelly at times you know. As far as the momma goes she passed yesterday morning IDK what causeed her to pass so now ill have to go hunt for another, but the babies are coming up nicely there were a couple of molts so just gotta start separating them soon I guess.


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## Greasylake

Someone I know runs a pest control business and found this female in a bait trap with some egg sacks. I'm not sure what he did with the sacks but he said if I didn't want this girl he would just kill her so I just figured I'd take her in. I was hoping I could also get an ID on her, I'm thinking mactans. She was also caught in Houston, Texas.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Ungoliant

Greasylake said:


> I was hoping I could also get an ID on her, I'm thinking mactans. She was also caught in Houston, Texas.


_L. mactans_ and _L. hesperus_ both occur in Texas, and I'm not sure it's possible to distinguish between the two from this image.


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## Greasylake

Ungoliant said:


> _L. mactans_ and _L. hesperus_ both occur in Texas, and I'm not sure it's possible to distinguish between the two from this image.


I'll try to get a better picture later but she attached her web to the top of the container and wedged herself in a corner. I'm hoping she'll move a bit so I can take off the lid soon and get some clear pictures.


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## Greasylake

Hopefully these pictures will be a little clearer. Shes been webbing and moving around a lot more. What do you guys feed your latrodectus? I think that my roaches are too large for her and going outside and catching mosquitoes to drop in the container wouldn't get her the most nutrition, and I would probably need multiple as they're about 80% wing.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ungoliant

Greasylake said:


> Hopefully these pictures will be a little clearer. Shes been webbing and moving around a lot more.


I still wouldn't be comfortable trying to distinguish between _Latrodectus mactans_ and _Latrodectus hesperus_ from these images. However, it really doesn't matter as far as care is concerned (just breeding).

You might be able to get a more specific ID on BugGuide, but sometimes they just categorize them as _Latrodectus_ where the range overlaps.




Greasylake said:


> What do you guys feed your latrodectus? I think that my roaches are too large for her and going outside and catching mosquitoes to drop in the container wouldn't get her the most nutrition, and I would probably need multiple as they're about 80% wing.


I have not kept these for longer than a few days (as a child). However, I don't think they are picky eaters. Try to offer prey that is the size of the abdomen or smaller, ideally things that are not wild-caught (as they may be exposed to pesticides or carry parasites).


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## Joogvanhedel

Or you prekill a prey (cricket or roach) and trow it in her web, she will eat it...


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## checkmate

View media item 49689

Reactions: Like 3 | Love 1


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## Android raptor

I've been feeding mine mealworms and crickets, she seems to like those fine.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Veigar

No idea what species this is, but she was an adult when this photo was taken:


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## Greasylake

Veigar said:


> No idea what species this is, but she was an adult when this photo was taken:


Looks like a Latrodectus mactans mexicanus to me.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## dangerforceidle

Veigar said:


> No idea what species this is, but she was an adult when this photo was taken:


If you captured it locally (in Las Vegas), almost certainly _L. hesperus_.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Veigar

dangerforceidle said:


> If you captured it locally (in Las Vegas), almost certainly _L. hesperus_.


Is Hesperus the only subspecies that can appear here? And yes, I caught it on my balcony when it was a ling.

Reactions: Like 2


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## dangerforceidle

Veigar said:


> Is Hesperus the only subspecies that can appear here? And yes, I caught it on my balcony when it was a ling.


Las Vegas is outside the range for _L. mactans_ and is not included in the known established range for _L. geometricus_, so I would be pretty highly confident in it being _L. hesperus_.  As far as I know, they are the only established local species.


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## Veigar

dangerforceidle said:


> Las Vegas is outside the range for _L. mactans_ and is not included in the known established range for _L. geometricus_, so I would be pretty highly confident in it being _L. hesperus_.  As far as I know, they are the only established local species.


Is L. Hesperus the only species that can survive out here? Or is it simply due to there not being any spiders introduced here? Say for example I put an egg sac of each Latrodectus and have them all hatch in different places along Vegas - would they all die out to the Hesperus' or would some be able to survive? 

Also, I'll tell you, there have been some very funky looking Hesperus' out here. Kind of makes you wonder what/how they get different patterns despite being the exact same species and sub species.


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## dangerforceidle

Veigar said:


> Is L. Hesperus the only species that can survive out here? Or is it simply due to there not being any spiders introduced here? Say for example I put an egg sac of each Latrodectus and have them all hatch in different places along Vegas - would they all die out to the Hesperus' or would some be able to survive?
> 
> Also, I'll tell you, there have been some very funky looking Hesperus' out here. Kind of makes you wonder what/how they get different patterns despite being the exact same species and sub species.


I think it's just a limitation of range due to how well a species is able to disperse from where they hatch.  I have no doubt that any _Latrodectus_ species would thrive in Las Vegas, but they may be out-competed by the already established populations if they were introduced in a limited manner.  In the wild, spider sacs do not yield many adult individuals -- most die before they reach breeding age.


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## Veigar

Here's two juveniles I have, both are Hesperus (at least I'm 99% sure)


#1 - With her food. This specific one looks quite normal.





#2 - Recently acquired this one. Her legs look exactly like a Brown Widow's but I'm still fairly positive she's a Hesperus. Kind of strange how they look so different. They're both the exact same size as well.






Dunno why pics are sideways, just open them in a new tab.


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## dangerforceidle

The second one is sub-adult.  She may be mature and full grown in size, but she should get her black appearance in a moult or two.


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## Veigar

It still looks really funky. Also, I've had weird looking adults.


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## RebelWolf

Veigar said:


> Here's two juveniles I have, both are Hesperus (at least I'm 99% sure)
> 
> 
> #1 - With her food. This specific one looks quite normal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> #2 - Recently acquired this one. Her legs look exactly like a Brown Widow's but I'm still fairly positive she's a Hesperus. Kind of strange how they look so different. They're both the exact same size as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dunno why pics are sideways, just open them in a new tab.


Beautiful, just beautiful. L. Hesperus are a favorite and they make good pets. I love pic number one the most


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## NYAN

Latrodectus hasselti enjoying a cricket.


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## Veigar

Nice feeding! Here's one of my Hesperus' finishing up on a Bark Scorpion. The strange thing is, she continued to eat the scorpion for nearly two days, which is quite odd. Maybe it was very tasty?

Reactions: Like 2


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## NYAN

Veigar said:


> Nice feeding! Here's one of my Hesperus' finishing up on a Bark Scorpion. The strange thing is, she continued to eat the scorpion for nearly two days, which is quite odd. Maybe it was very tasty?


Why not feed it actual feeders?


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## Veigar

NYAN said:


> Why not feed it actual feeders?


feeder insects aren't as easy to get here (the place crickets like are very far away from me) plus this scorpion was very easy to catch compared to other feeders and invaded my property so it was fair game to become widow food. And they're ridiculously common too.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## RebelWolf

Veigar said:


> Nice feeding! Here's one of my Hesperus' finishing up on a Bark Scorpion. The strange thing is, she continued to eat the scorpion for nearly two days, which is quite odd. Maybe it was very tasty?


She has quite an appetite


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## Joogvanhedel

Baby Latrodectus hasselti come out of their cocoon, dad and mom i have also brought up from a cocoon..

Reactions: Like 1


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## Krystal Anne

My L. hesperus Saber having a drink 












Latrodectus hesperus drinking



__ Krystal Anne
__ Aug 15, 2018
__ 8
__
black widow
drinking
hesperus
latrodectus
latrodectus hesperus
theridiidae
western black widow




						This is my queen, Saber! I've raised her from a tiny sling. She's about ~3 years old now.

Reactions: Like 5


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## Joogvanhedel

Nice spider


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## Wild Wonambi

When mating latrodectus mactans, what is the rate of cannibalism?


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## Pernicious

Thought id share my l.mactans enjoying a white roach .still not 100 percent sure if its male or female (first widow here) but i love it either way and seems female to me


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## NYAN

Pernicious said:


> Thought id share my l.mactans enjoying a white roach .still not 100 percent sure if its male or female (first widow here) but i love it either way and seems female to me


If you post a photo of the Palp, it can be sexed. Is it a mexicanus variant? I think it may be a female.


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## Pernicious

NYAN said:


> If you post a photo of the Palp, it can be sexed. Is it a mexicanus variant? I think it may be a female.


Yes it is the mexicanus. This is about the best i can get as of now as its devoted itself to eating thanks for any help!


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## dangerforceidle

Pernicious said:


> Yes it is the mexicanus. This is about the best i can get as of now as its devoted itself to eating thanks for any help!


That is a female.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Flexzone

*Latrodectus mactans "Mexico" - Female*
*




*

Reactions: Like 6 | Love 3


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## NYAN

Latrodectus hasselti.

Reactions: Like 4


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## NYAN

Latrodectus geometricus dark color form 
@Teal

Reactions: Like 1 | Love 1


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## Greasylake

NYAN said:


> Latrodectus geometricus dark color form


You sent me one of these too didn't you? I'm still trying to get it in a decent position to take pictures.


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## NYAN

Greasylake said:


> You sent me one of these too didn't you? I'm still trying to get it in a decent position to take pictures.


Yes I did!


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## NYAN

Latrodectus hesperus

Reactions: Like 1


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## The Snark

Just a thought, it would be a fun thread to show pics of the common habitats the various Latros are found in. Hesperus would easily qualify as a toilet (outhouse) or water meter spider.

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1


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## mygale

*L. mactans
Project site*

Black Widow by mygale

Black Widow Macro by mygale

Black Widow by mygale

Reactions: Like 3 | Wow 1 | Love 4


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## NYAN

Latrodectus menavodi

Reactions: Like 3


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## NYAN

Latrodectus hesperus

Reactions: Like 5


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## NYAN

L. hasselti pairing

Female dropped a sac a few days ago




Adult female L. menavodi

I watched her pair on the 5th

Reactions: Like 3


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## NYAN

L. menavodi pairing

Reactions: Like 3


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## NYAN

I scored some L. tredecimguttatus slings finally. After another molt or two I’ll take some pics.


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## NYAN

L. tredecimguttatus

Reactions: Love 1


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## NYAN

Latrodecrus variolus 

Once I receive my next shipment I’ll have 5/6 of the US species.

Reactions: Like 3


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## NYAN

Latrodectus tredecimguttatus

Reactions: Like 3


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## NYAN

Latrodectus variolus

Reactions: Like 2 | Love 1


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## Ungoliant

This brown widow (_Latrodectus geometricus_) was living in the back of our mailbox and had quite a pile of dead bugs below her.  Brown widows are invasive, and we normally kill them, but I didn't have the heart to kill this one, so I am keeping her in a 32-oz. deli cup.












Latrodectus geometricus [1/2]



__ Ungoliant
__ Jun 25, 2019
__ 1
__
brown widow
female
geometricus
juvenile
juvenile female
latrodectus
latrodectus geometricus
theridiidae




						She was living in the back of our mailbox and had quite a pile of dead bugs below her.  Brown...
					
















Latrodectus geometricus [2/2]



__ Ungoliant
__ Jun 25, 2019
__ 6
__
brown widow
female
geometricus
juvenile
juvenile female
latrodectus
latrodectus geometricus
theridiidae




						She was living in the back of our mailbox and had quite a pile of dead bugs below her.  Brown...

Reactions: Like 3


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## NYAN

Latrodectus hasselti

Reactions: Like 1


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## Outpost31Survivor

It has a cool "6" markings and tiger stripes:

Reactions: Like 1


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## Outpost31Survivor

Another darker L.geometricus:

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## BladeGypsy

I re-housed my L. hesperus female the other day. 
She is webbing it up and settling in nicely. I think I will nix the water dish idea and stick to misting 2-3 times  a week, as that has been working for months for me. Also, it would be difficult to maintain with her webbing and thus far she seems to believe it's a flushable toilet - LOL.

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## NYAN

BladeGypsy said:


> I think I will nix the water dish idea and stick to misting 2-3 times  a week, as that has been working for months for me.


These live in the driest places in the United States. There’s no need to do either of these. If you must provide water, lightly misting the web every couple months is fine.

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## BladeGypsy

^Yep, I have been lightly misting the web. I mist more frequently than you and it has been successfully working for me.
Removed water dish last evening. 
Thanks for your input though.


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## menavodi

BladeGypsy said:


> ^Yep, I have been lightly misting the web. I mist more frequently than you and it has been successfully working for me.
> Removed water dish last evening.
> Thanks for your input though.


Misting is important. That’s the way Latrodectus get their water...


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## pannaking22

menavodi said:


> Misting is important. That’s the way Latrodectus get their water...


They get the bulk of their moisture through their food. But some species (especially those from more humid climates) certainly won't say no to an occasional drink! Otherwise misting isn't really necessary, just an addition we can give them in captivity.

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## Mckrizzal

Kugellager said:


> From what I have read L.mactans generally has the hourglass as one whole marking while L.hesperus generally has it seperated into two triangles as in my pics.
> 
> Also L.hesperus is confined to the western US while L.mactans is generally found in the eastern US.
> 
> John
> ];')


This is incorrect. Latrodectus variolus has the separated hourglass. Hesperus are solid black with the red hourglass. Mactans has the red hourglass, and red at the end of the abdomen where it webs from.

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## NYAN

Mckrizzal said:


> This is incorrect. Latrodectus variolus has the separated hourglass. Hesperus are solid black with the red hourglass. Mactans has the red hourglass, and red at the end of the abdomen where it webs from.


This is mostly correct. Hesperus do sometimes have a broken hourglass like variolus do. I’ve even photographed some.

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## RebelWolf

Latrodectus Mactans. The southern black widow spider. She's not my pet and I'm not sure if this is ok to post it with this being a black widow picture thread, I think this is ok. Let me know and if it is not, I apologize. I came across this girl outside a hotel. I saw the web and exoskeleton and judging by the web and exoskeleton, I had a feeling it was a widow spider. So after some probing with a stick, I saw the spider with her red hourglass and my suspicions were confirmed. I left her be. Beautiful spider. One day I'm gonna own a black widow as a pet, whether it be latrodectus hesperus or latrodectus mactans


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## NYAN

RebelWolf said:


> Latrodectus Mactans. The southern black widow spider. She's not my pet and I'm not sure if this is ok to post it with this being a black widow picture thread, I think this is ok. Let me know and if it is not, I apologize. I came across this girl outside a hotel. I saw the web and exoskeleton and judging by the web and exoskeleton, I had a feeling it was a widow spider. So after some probing with a stick, I saw the spider with her red hourglass and my suspicions were confirmed. I left her be. Beautiful spider. One day I'm gonna own a black widow as a pet, whether it be latrodectus hesperus or latrodectus mactans


This is a L. geometricus

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## RebelWolf

NYAN said:


> This is a L. geometricus


I was able to get more clear pics of her. She appears to be more black and dark in color. If she is a brown widow, never seen them with such dark colors

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## Clickbait

RebelWolf said:


> I was able to get more clear pics of her. She appears to be more black and dark in color. If she is a brown widow, never seen them with such dark colors


Now I am not saying you’re wrong, but some L. Geos can be fairly dark. I own one, and when I first saw her I thought she was an L. Mactans—I only realized she wasn’t when I saw her striped legs.

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## RebelWolf

Clickbait said:


> Now I am not saying you’re wrong, but some L. Geos can be fairly dark. I own one, and when I first saw her I thought she was an L. Mactans—I only realized she wasn’t when I saw her striped legs.


I forgot to mention I was in North Carolina when I saw this widow spider. I'm not too sure if the brown widow's range includes North Carolina, I will have to look that up to be sure. I never heard of brown widow spiders being found in North Carolina. Maybe I should've coaxed her out of her hiding crevice to get a better look at her. So she's either a brown widow or southern black widow. I'm at a loss, haha!! If you say she's a brown widow then I have to agree and if everyone else says so then again, I have to agree


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## Clickbait

RebelWolf said:


> I forgot to mention I was in North Carolina when I saw this widow spider. I'm not too sure if the brown widow's range includes North Carolina, I will have to look that up to be sure. I never heard of brown widow spiders being found in North Carolina. Maybe I should've coaxed her out of her hiding crevice to get a better look at her. So she's either a brown widow or southern black widow. I'm at a loss, haha!! If you say she's a brown widow then I have to agree and if everyone else says so then again, I have to agree


See that's what is interesting! I live in North Carolina, and in the area between my dad's doctor office and my girlfriend's house  (<1 mile) I have found upwards of 10 specimens. Most of the literature I've read only mentions their range extending to South Carolina, so I believe this to be a new phenomenon. When I first encountered what I now know to have been a brown widow, I mistook it for a black widow because I had never heard of the brown widow. But the one thing that I could not get over was the odd brownish color (it was fairly dark for an L. geo but too matte and brown to be an L. Mactans), and now that I've observed several L. Geo specimens in my region, I believe this one was in fact an L. Geo. I believe you can even see it in my post history, when I posted a photo of it consuming a wolf spider. 

One other thing: if you ever see this specimen again and observe that it has spiky, Covid-shaped egg sacks, then it is absolutely an L. Geo. The Covid shape is diagnostic of the species (in fact my L. Geo just laid what I think is an unfertilized sack).


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## Ferrachi

mygale said:


> *L. mactans
> Project site*
> 
> Black Widow by mygale
> 
> Black Widow Macro by mygale
> 
> Black Widow by mygale


These photos are incredible !!


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## Ungoliant

Southern Black Widow (♀ Latrodectus mactans)



__ Ungoliant
__ Apr 9, 2021
__ 1
__
black widow
female
latrodectus
latrodectus mactans
mactans
southern black widow
theridiidae




						I was delighted to find this black widow, as I haven't seen one in years and was beginning to...

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## Sonic druid

These are black widows I found on my porch. I think the smaller one is a brown widow. Not sure. If anyone knows let me know.

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## RMELovesLife

I found a sling in my home and I'm just getting into tarantualas and other invertabrates. So I caught it and placed it in a small spider enclosure to identify and possibly keep as a pet. I believe it's a widow and I'm trying to identify which species. It's small and brownish. Thats why I'm sure its a sling. I took a magnifying glass and found a light colored hourglass shape on the bottom of its abdomen. Upon looking at previous photos on this forum I haven't seen any with hourglasses on spiders this small. Any ideas which mine may be? Thanks in advance!


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