# colorado river toad



## Pickled Peter (Sep 12, 2009)

Hi everybody.  
Iv been thinking about getting a knew pet to keep in my room at student halls. I was wondering if anyone knows much about the Colorado river toad.

I am looking to discover what sized tank would be suitable for this animal and what items would be needed in it such as substrate etc.. In addition I am already aware of the toxic secretions that the toad can secrete however i would like to know if there are any drawbacks to keeping these animals such as noises or smells.I am unfamiliar to keeping amphibians as pets and any info on keeping this animal as a pet is very much welcome.


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## GartenSpinnen (Sep 12, 2009)

Hi, keeping this species is illegal to do, so essentially you are requesting information on a public forum in how to partake in an illegal activity. Its no big mystery why people want to keep these....


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## Pickled Peter (Sep 12, 2009)

I live in the UK and I'm pretty sure they,re not illegal over here. I mainly wan one just as a pet the fact that they release a hallucinatory substance doesn't matter to me so much.


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## tarantulaholic (Sep 12, 2009)

I lived here in  Vegas, and one of local pet store has tons for sale, all sizes. I assumed its not illegal here.
If I were you Id get an african bullfrog or pyxie frog. They get huge and looks a lot cooler imo.


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## Pickled Peter (Sep 13, 2009)

:wall: Ive decided I want a colorado river toad. Can someone please give me info on housing these animals


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## codykrr (Sep 13, 2009)

well i have a buddy who did keep one, before he relized they were illegal.  he had it in a 40 gallon long, he used a false bottom setup. and a lrge hide.  

and im not codoning in the illegal activities of this frog, but i will say they get huge! and last i knew it was 2 feloneys for keepingthis animal. 

1. for keeping an illegal species
2. for manufacture/harvest of a class 1 psycodelic compound  5 meo- DmT
3. also i was told his species was or is now endagered....not sure if thats true. but i dont care.  i like freedom!:clap:


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## Goomba (Sep 13, 2009)

The thing with living in the United States is that, well, at least theoretically, we live in self governing states. Just because B. alvarius is illegal in some states doesn't make it illegal in others. Harvesting the bufotenin like a junky is another issue.
Check state laws, but for the most part, keeping them is legal. Just don't be a hippy toolbag and expect to trip out after tossing the toads salad.


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## codykrr (Sep 13, 2009)

interesting....its acually not illegal to keep as long as you dont intend to "milk" it.

[edit]Venom and U.S. lawThe toad's primary defense system are glands that produce a poison that may be potent enough to kill a grown dog.[1]These parotoid glands also produce the 5-MeO-DMT [2]and bufotenin for which the toad is known; both of these chemicals belong to the family of hallucinogenic tryptamines. The presence of these substances in the skin and poison of the toad produces psychoactive effects when smoked.[3]Bufotenine is a Schedule I controlled substance in the U.S. While possession of the toad is not a crime in itself (in Arizona, U.S.A., one may legally bag up to ten toads with a fishing license), it could constitute a criminal violation if it can be shown that one is in possession of this toad with the intent to milk and smoke its venom.[4]In November 2007, a man in Kansas City was arrested and charged with possession of a controlled substance when police discovered B. alvariustoad poison in his possession.[5][6]It should also be noted that none of the states in which B. alvariusis (or was) indigenous - California, Arizona, and New Mexico - legally allow a person to remove the toad from the state. For example, the Arizona Department of Game and Fish is clear about the law in Arizona: "An individual shall not... export any live wildlife from the state; 3. Transport, possess, offer for sale, sell, sell as live bait, trade, give away, purchase, rent, lease, display, exhibit, propagate... within the state..."[4]In California, B. alvariushas been designated as "endangered" and possession of this toad is illegal as per "The Official California Code of Regulations, Title 14. Natural Resources Division 1., Subdivision 1., Chapter 5., § 40. General Provisions Relating to Native Reptiles and Amphibians. (a) General Prohibition It is unlawful to capture, collect, intentionally kill or injure, possess, purchase, propagate, sell, transport, import or export any native reptile or amphibian, or part thereof..."[7]In New Mexico, this toad is listed as "threatened" and, again, taking B. alvariusis unlawful.[8][9


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## Goomba (Sep 13, 2009)

Oh man, here in Arizona, especially closer to Tucson, you can barely walk around in some parts without nearly squashing one of these fatties. That is, during monsoon season.
I am considering keeping one again, but they just need way too much room. I prefer the sedentary lifestyles of Pyxies. However, if I do keep one again, a 40 breeder with a lot of soil will do it.


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## mitchnast (Sep 13, 2009)

Bufo alvarius is illegal to keep in the states it occurs naturally,  it is legal to kill in  arizona (with a fishing licence, 10 bag per day) but not keep, sell, trade, give away.
california considers it to be endangered.
None of these legal factors have anything to do with the chemical makeup of the animal, they are game infractions.

I believe it's legal to posess everywhere else, and the drug scheduling does not effect the keeping of this animal provided it cannot be proven it is being used for such.

technically, its the Bufotenin that is the scheduled substance federally, the "5-MeO-DMT " (the psychadellic) is only even sculed. under state law in nebraska, oklahoma, and south dakota.

all true toads secrete bufotenin.

5-MeO-DMT is illegal in some countries, but it is perfectly legal to possess the animal, just as it is perfectly legal to have a human brain, which contains dopamine and DMT, two illegal scheduled drugs.


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## Goomba (Sep 13, 2009)

It was my understanding that it was legal to keep B. alvarius in Arizona, as it is legal to keep native Rattlers (except the protected species). You just need a small game license.


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## mitchnast (Sep 13, 2009)

codykrr said:


> well i have a buddy who did keep one, before he relized they were illegal.  he had it in a 40 gallon long, he used a false bottom setup. and a lrge hide.
> 
> and im not codoning in the illegal activities of this frog, but i will say they get huge! and last i knew it was 2 feloneys for keepingthis animal.
> 
> ...


Just wanted to point out that, 
1. It is not an illegal species (to posess) in all but 3 states.
2.manufacture/harvest entails some refinement for human consumption or sale, and must be proven beyond resonable doubt.  And  5 meo- DmT is only scheduled in 3 states, the Scheduled chemical in question would make ALL toads illegal by this logic.  even so, unrefined and unusable, it does not (anywhere in the world) legally qualify as either bufotenin or 5 meo- DmT unless intent to refine can be proven.  
3. It is threatened in many populations by habitat destruction, something the laws do not protect it from.

If you want the toad, get one, take good care of it, do not buy into the hysteria.
It is an awesome animal.  Do not be foolish with it and get your friends stoned, that is a good way to actually make it illegal.


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## mitchnast (Sep 13, 2009)

Goomba said:


> It was my understanding that it was legal to keep B. alvarius in Arizona, as it is legal to keep native Rattlers (except the protected species). You just need a small game license.


nope, a small game licence only entitles you to kill the animal for sport.
you cannot keep it as a pet, or sell, breed, propigate, display, trade, give away, sell, offer for sale, transport, blah blah blah ANY game or non-game species in that state.


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## Goomba (Sep 13, 2009)

mitchnast said:


> nope, a small game licence only entitles you to kill the animal for sport.
> you cannot keep it as a pet, or sell, breed, propigate, display, trade, give away, sell, offer for sale, transport, blah blah blah ANY game or non-game species in that state.



Then all 9,684 people that I've known who keep rattlesnakes as pets here in Arizona must have been misinformed about our laws.... I'm a bit skeptical.
Every game and fish worker I talked to and every person from the herpetological association that I have talked to has said what I have.


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## mitchnast (Sep 14, 2009)

the Arizona state laws regulating game, specifically amphibians and reptiles can be found here.
http://www.azgfd.gov/pdfs/h_f/regulations/ReptileAmphibian.pdf

the specific information that details the prohibition of keeping live wildlife outside the feild is section R12-4-402.  The exceptions to this code are defined under  Arizona Revised Statutes, Title 3, chapter 16, pertaining to licensed persons engaged in state-monitored aquaculture.  This does not extend to hobbiests collecting rattlesnakes or other herps.

I was mistaken reguarding the licensure entiteling the holder to kill the animals for sport, it also entitles them to catch the animals alive and hold them in the feild. however, taking them home, or transfering them between habitats would violate R12-4-402.

It's not the clearest set of laws, but it is a _state_ law.

9,684 people eh? and they actually live in the state... immagine that, all it took was checking and a Canadian like me knows more than almost ten thousand points of anecdotal Arizona law! 

never trust anecdotal representations of the law.


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## Pickled Peter (Sep 14, 2009)

I dont care what the laws are in states of America pleas just help me to figure out how to look after the things.


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## Goomba (Sep 14, 2009)

mitchnast said:


> the Arizona state laws regulating game, specifically amphibians and reptiles can be found here.
> http://www.azgfd.gov/pdfs/h_f/regulations/ReptileAmphibian.pdf
> 
> the specific information that details the prohibition of keeping live wildlife outside the feild is section R12-4-402.  The exceptions to this code are defined under  Arizona Revised Statutes, Title 3, chapter 16, pertaining to licensed persons engaged in state-monitored aquaculture.  This does not extend to hobbiests collecting rattlesnakes or other herps.
> ...



Well, I'll have to look into it, but I haven't heard of keeping non-protected rattlers as illegal. I've worked in the reptile business here, and most the people I worked with, including members of the AHA who take ceased animals keep rattlers privately, and to my knowledge, it was legally.
I'll call the state to clarify. Either way, I doubt they'll crack down on it too much.


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## Goomba (Sep 14, 2009)

I just talked to a person from AZ Game and Fish, they said the bag limit is 4, and that is live or dead, at home or in the field. As long as they are not the one of the 4 protected species.


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## AzJohn (Sep 14, 2009)

The OP says he lives in the UK, so all the talk about US laws are irrelevent. Do some research on the Sonoran Desert and make an enclousure that will amtch it as close as you can. I believe they like to borrow as well. So you might want to provide a lot of substrte. I hope this helps a little. I've never kept this species, but that's what I would do.

John


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## Goomba (Sep 14, 2009)

AzJohn is right. They are earth movers. Get a big tank, and fill it with a mix of peat type soil, and desert type soil. Keep a large water source available, and clean.


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## Pickled Peter (Sep 14, 2009)

Thank you john  Iv been researching the animal quiet a bit. I understand that at least a 20 gallon tank Is needed, a large water bowl, heat mat, hide and a substrate of peat moss. Iv read on one site that a makeshift tank could be made from a large plastic container. I was wondering if maybe I could use a large plastic box with punctured holes in it for adequate ventilation. Any information regarding  this or the keeping of these animals is welcome.


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## Goomba (Sep 14, 2009)

Avoid heat mats with burrowing frogs. Use a good old fashioned lamp.
I'd do more than a 20. Once you get one, you'll see why. I'd use a 40 breeder, or maybe 30 breeder if you're on a budget.
Yes, a tupperware/plastic container would be a great and economical way of housing the animal.
Also, I would recommend induced periods of aestivation. In the winter I'd drop temperatures, and make it a bit drier and let them sleep for a few months.
Here in Arizona they're underground for well over half the year, so I'd imagine it would be physiologically beneficial to give them some rest and some sleep.


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## mitchnast (Sep 14, 2009)

Arizona law doesn't effect me either, I'd love to have some of these toads, if only I had the room.


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## codykrr (Sep 16, 2009)

yeah id definatly get a 40 long or a big sterilite bin.  these things are huge. and like states move alot of earth. my buddy always used the cactus blend potting soil for his.  good luck.


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## josh_r (Sep 17, 2009)

your all mixed up man. you can collect and keep ANY species in arizona with a hunting license as long as it is not stated as a protected species. and you CAN bring them home and keep them as pets. there is a bag limit per species (which is usually 4) and this isn't per household, its per person holding a license. you can breed animals and if the resulting offspring puts you over the limit of 4 animals or whatever, you have up to a YEAR to GIFT them to another individual. now there's a difference between a canadian and an arizonian. all the canadian can do is read the laws... cant actually learn them from first hand experience and talking to F&W directly. most arizona herpers DO know arizona laws man.





mitchnast said:


> the Arizona state laws regulating game, specifically amphibians and reptiles can be found here.
> http://www.azgfd.gov/pdfs/h_f/regulations/ReptileAmphibian.pdf
> 
> the specific information that details the prohibition of keeping live wildlife outside the feild is section R12-4-402.  The exceptions to this code are defined under  Arizona Revised Statutes, Title 3, chapter 16, pertaining to licensed persons engaged in state-monitored aquaculture.  This does not extend to hobbiests collecting rattlesnakes or other herps.
> ...


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## Pickled Peter (Sep 17, 2009)

stop talking US law PLEAS . This is my post find another forum to talk about this.:?


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## josh_r (Sep 18, 2009)

Pickled Peter said:


> stop talking US law PLEAS . This is my post find another forum to talk about this.:?


sorry man. good luck finding your toad and dont lick it cause you'll just feel like an idiot after you dont get high


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