# Steak eating T



## Roosterbomb (Apr 21, 2015)

I was watching T videos on you tube and found a video of a guy throwing what looked like chunks of meat into the enclosure. I've read that slings will scavenge smashed crickets but I don't remember reading anywhere about hunks of meat. But then again I found a video of a T diving in a bathtub and  that goes against everything I've read so maybe there's a few species that like meat wads.


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## Formerphobe (Apr 21, 2015)

I know a guy that has reported good results feeding slings tiny bits of canned cat food in lieu of cut up insect parts.


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## Roosterbomb (Apr 21, 2015)

This guy was doing it with adults but interesting about the cat food with slings and was he doing with all his slings or only certain ones.


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## Formerphobe (Apr 21, 2015)

was he doing with all his slings or only certain ones.[/QUOTE]

I don't accurately recall. I'm thinking he was feeding hatchlings that way.


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## Ianpcfauna (Apr 22, 2015)

When I was in middle school I had an A. geniculata that I fed a chunk of raw steak! I have not done it since. Was pretty cool though!


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## Blueandbluer (Apr 22, 2015)

Since we have no real idea what a Ts actual nutritional requirements, feeding them something so far off from their natural diet seems unwise to me.

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## Hanska (Apr 22, 2015)

I remember a thread here on AB where someone as an experiment fed his sling with a ball made of fish food.


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## 14pokies (Apr 22, 2015)

Blueandbluer said:


> Since we have no real idea what a Ts actual nutritional requirements, feeding them something so far off from their natural diet seems unwise to me.


+1 although my dream T would be one that feeds primarily on whole cows and similar size prey!

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## vespers (Apr 22, 2015)

Blueandbluer said:


> Since we have no real idea what a Ts actual nutritional requirements, feeding them something so far off from their natural diet seems unwise to me.


I don't see the need to do it either. But that said, I don't think a "hunk of meat" is going to be that much different nutritionally for a tarantula than eating small vertebrates. Things like rodents, bats, frogs, etc.. which happens in nature sometimes depending on the species.

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## awiec (Apr 22, 2015)

vespers said:


> I don't see the need to do it either. But that said, I don't think a "hunk of meat" is going to be that much different nutritionally for a tarantula than eating small vertebrates. Things like rodents, bats, frogs, etc.. which happens in nature sometimes depending on the species.


A chunk of meat is a chunk of meat but people seem to forget that meat in the US has a lot of sodium, artificial colors etc that may be harmful for a spider. But I suppose if you are in a pinch then a little chunk of meat would do, just make sure to clean your cage out before things go rancid.

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## Hanska (Apr 22, 2015)

awiec said:


> A chunk of meat is a chunk of meat but people seem to forget that meat in the US has a lot of sodium, artificial colors etc that may be harmful for a spider. But I suppose if you are in a pinch then a little chunk of meat would do, just make sure to clean your cage out before things go rancid.


A chunk of meat also lack any internal organs etc. so it's not even close to a whole small animal nutritionally.


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## awiec (Apr 22, 2015)

Hanska said:


> A chunk of meat also lack any internal organs etc. so it's not even close to a whole small animal nutritionally.


Which I why I wouldn't feed it personally but if you are desperate or just morbidly curious, feeding a spider a little chunk of meat once won't harm them. Though this thread reminds me of the times I've seen spiders scurrying off with dog food, I don't think of that having a complete nutrient profile but they liked taking it anyway.


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## Hanska (Apr 22, 2015)

awiec said:


> Which I why I wouldn't feed it personally but if you are desperate or just morbidly curious, feeding a spider a little chunk of meat once won't harm them. Though this thread reminds me of the times I've seen spiders scurrying off with dog food, I don't think of that having a complete nutrient profile but they liked taking it anyway.


I don't know. I mean the key of making fruit flies viable as an only food source for spiderlings is adding dog food to the growing medium. Maybe our Ts would grow fast and huge if we fed them dog food.:giggle:
Or maybe they would just start barking...:laugh:


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## ratluvr76 (Apr 22, 2015)

In the early days of the hobby chunks of beef heart were recommended as a food source for tarantulas. Just a useless factoid I've picked up along the way.


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## Angel Minkov (Apr 22, 2015)

Blueandbluer said:


> Since we have no real idea what a Ts actual nutritional requirements, feeding them something so far off from their natural diet seems unwise to me.


Do you think they dont eat vertebrates in the wild? The only problematic meat I could think of would be pork meat because of all the fat, but I dont think we know how they prpcess their food yet. Then again, meat from stores is full of crap.which would probably influence the T in a negative way.


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## Blueandbluer (Apr 22, 2015)

Angel Minkov said:


> Do you think they dont eat vertebrates in the wild? The only problematic meat I could think of would be pork meat because of all the fat, but I dont think we know how they prpcess their food yet. Then again, meat from stores is full of crap.which would probably influence the T in a negative way.


There's "vertebrates" and then there's "farm-raised cattle." I am pretty sure cows are not in their natural diet, and there's a world of difference between one and a small mouse or frog. And, as you said, the additives would be concerning. I mean, as always, YMMV, but I wouldn't do it.


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## Roosterbomb (Apr 22, 2015)

Lol I'm starting to gather that my amazement and disbelief in this was due to my newbie status. Lol I love this hobby! 
I don't think meat wads are on the menu for my guys but if I do it I'll post.

---------- Post added 04-22-2015 at 12:42 PM ----------

So if they eat carrion do they scavenge carcasses in the wild.


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## ratluvr76 (Apr 22, 2015)

Angel Minkov said:


> Do you think they dont eat vertebrates in the wild? The only problematic meat I could think of would be pork meat because of all the fat, but I dont think we know how they prpcess their food yet. Then again, meat from stores is full of crap.which would probably influence the T in a negative way.


Aaww come on.... Growth hormones for giant T's. We might have spiders taking down cows before too long.

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## LythSalicaria (Apr 22, 2015)

Hanska said:


> I don't know. I mean the key of making fruit flies viable as an only food source for spiderlings is adding dog food to the growing medium. Maybe our Ts would grow fast and huge if we fed them dog food.:giggle:
> Or maybe they would just start barking...:laugh:


Funny you should mention that. I gut-load my crickets with Blue Buffalo cat food (high quality, lots of protein and vitamins, no nasty fillers). Ended up doing a little experiment and started feeding a few of my slings these gut-loaded crickets as much as they would take. My GBB was the most receptive to this experiment and accepted food virtually every day until it got the point where I needed to stop feeding it for fear of it getting obese or its abdomen bursting. At that point I stopped and waited to see what would happen. Normally it molts every two months or so. By doing this, it molted within 4 weeks of its previous molt.

I'm saving up right now to get a large order of new slings. When I get them I'm thinking that I'll do this experiment again and actually keep notes and records on their development compared to slings being fed the way I normally do (once or twice a week). It should be interesting.

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## Blueandbluer (Apr 22, 2015)

I feed my crix quality dry cat food as well. However, The Luggage still hasn't molted, even though she has been clearly in pre-molt for the last week or so. I'm awaiting her molt eagerly as I'm hoping to get one I can sex... *fingers crossed*


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## LythSalicaria (Apr 22, 2015)

Blueandbluer said:


> I feed my crix quality dry cat food as well. However, The Luggage still hasn't molted, even though she has been clearly in pre-molt for the last week or so. I'm awaiting her molt eagerly as I'm hoping to get one I can sex... *fingers crossed*


I wish you luck. Mine has made it a point to chew up the opisthosoma of every single molt its given me. Everything else is always perfectly intact - it's like the little beast is mocking me. :laugh:

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## truecreature (Apr 22, 2015)

I dunno about the T's, but anyone is certainly welcome to toss some steak to me

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## Angel Minkov (Apr 22, 2015)

Blueandbluer said:


> There's "vertebrates" and then there's "farm-raised cattle." I am pretty sure cows are not in their natural diet, and there's a world of difference between one and a small mouse or frog. And, as you said, the additives would be concerning. I mean, as always, YMMV, but I wouldn't do it.


I can imagine the difference is only in the fat% in the meat. Everything else should be almost exactly the same. Also, eating a single mouse in nature means 20+ crickets in proteins, if not more.


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## Blueandbluer (Apr 22, 2015)

Angel Minkov said:


> I can imagine the difference is only in the fat% in the meat. Everything else should be almost exactly the same. Also, eating a single mouse in nature means 20+ crickets in proteins, if not more.


I'm not sure why you would think fat the only difference. There could be differences in calcium content, protein content, iron content, LDL versus HDL cholesterol, etc. Different meats clearly cannot be chemically identical or they wouldn't taste and look different. (See steak versus chicken, http://www.sparkpeople.com/food_vs_food.asp?food=1_5_steak_versus_chicken , and that just shows two we typically eat. Who knows what the comparison of steak v. small rodent would be... ) 

And yes, a single mouse in nature means 20+ crickets in proteins, or so conventional wisdom holds. But we have no data proving that's a GOOD thing. It's a big assumption to say "more protein = better." For all we know, there can come a point where too much can be toxic, like for humans with water. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication)


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## Angel Minkov (Apr 22, 2015)

No animal cares about overeating unless its harmful to them. They care about calories and protein to survive and reproduce. I said "nearly" identical, not identical. Cholesterol is a steroid which,.in good quantities in humans, is invaluable. I think Ts can and do control their diet wisely based on the season and their needs, but these are just my theories.

Water is "toxic" only if you consume substantial amounts in a short period of time. I drink 2-4L of water every day between 8 and 11 PM and I feel fine. Protein and water have little.in common, though.


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## Blueandbluer (Apr 22, 2015)

I know water and protein have little in common. My point was, however, that the very most benign or even beneficial things become not so benign or beneficial in sufficient quantities... so can we really say that the protein equivalent of 20 or more crickets is a good thing to be regularly feeding a spider? 

The safest thing in husbandry is ALWAYS to try to mimic the natural environment and diet as close as possible. And giving them steak really does not fall in that plan.


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## ratluvr76 (Apr 22, 2015)

Blueandbluer said:


> I know water and protein have little in common. My point was, however, that the very most benign or even beneficial things become not so benign or beneficial in sufficient quantities... so can we really say that the protein equivalent of 20 or more crickets is a good thing to be regularly feeding a spider?
> 
> The safest thing in husbandry is ALWAYS to try to mimic the natural environment and diet as close as possible. And giving them steak really does not fall in that plan.


An occasional rodent is though. Especially for the giants like Goliath, LP, LD, blondi, etc. will I ever feed a rodent to them? Doubtful tbh, maybe when their full grown and if I decide to breed them I MIGHT feed my females a pinkie mouse a couple of days before pairing and maybe a couple of weeks after if I suspect they're gravid. Again, doubtful.


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## Blueandbluer (Apr 22, 2015)

ratluvr76 said:


> An occasional rodent is though. Especially for the giants like Goliath, LP, LD, blondi, etc. will I ever feed a rodent to them? Doubtful tbh, maybe when their full grown and if I decide to breed them I MIGHT feed my females a pinkie mouse a couple of days before pairing and maybe a couple of weeks after if I suspect they're gravid. Again, doubtful.


Arguments can be made for the very occasional pinkie. But steak? I just don't see why you would.

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## Angel Minkov (Apr 23, 2015)

Blueandbluer said:


> Arguments can be made for the very occasional pinkie. But steak? I just don't see why you would.


I didn't say I support steak feeding, but like I said - close to no difference and if the T dislikes it/considers it hazardous to its health it simply will not eat it. Besides - we don't really know much about tarantulas in their natural environment and how they act, so we're just making assumptions here. My point - I doubt feeding steak would be a big deal if the cow wasn't fed steroids and other crap. BUT I would not do it, because I have enough feeders. I wouldn't even feed mice or lizards to my Ts, because live mice are dangerous.


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## Blueandbluer (Apr 23, 2015)

True, we are making assumptions. But I think Ts not eating many cows  in nature is a pretty safe one as assumptions go.


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## Angel Minkov (Apr 23, 2015)

Blueandbluer said:


> True, we are making assumptions. But I think Ts not eating many cows  in nature is a pretty safe one as assumptions go.


Not easy to eat a car when you're an ant.


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## vespers (Apr 23, 2015)

Blueandbluer said:


> The safest thing in husbandry is ALWAYS to try to mimic the natural environment and diet as close as possible.


Actually, it seems many posters here don't mimic the natural environments of tarantulas at all really, and don't advocate keeping them in natural enclosures or under semi-natural conditions whatsoever.


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## Angel Minkov (Apr 23, 2015)

vespers said:


> Actually, it seems many posters here don't mimic the natural environments of tarantulas at all really, and don't advocate keeping them in natural enclosures or under semi-natural conditions whatsoever.


And most of them are hard to mimic at all. Especially montane environment.


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## Londoner (Apr 23, 2015)

ratluvr76 said:


> In the early days of the hobby chunks of beef heart were recommended as a food source for tarantulas. Just a useless factoid I've picked up along the way.


Indeed. When I got into the hobby in the early nineties, I remember reading in one of the few books available at the time that the best method was to tie a piece of string around the cube of meat and dangle it in front of the T. Never tried it myself but it was advised as an acceptable food source at that time. Saying that, in those days it was also considered acceptable to use aquarium gravel as substrate!!!

Good luck.


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## Blueandbluer (Apr 24, 2015)

It may be worth noting that some people suspect the over feeding of vertebrate prey to Ts one of the factors in wet molt. There's no proof, of course, but there seems to be some correlation.

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## awiec (Apr 24, 2015)

Blueandbluer said:


> It may be worth noting that some people suspect the over feeding of vertebrate prey to Ts one of the factors in wet molt. There's no proof, of course, but there seems to be some correlation.


You know what is also correlated? Flowers and heat stroke. Spiders need balanced diets like any other animal and we don't even know what their dietary requirements are. This is dogma that people have been spreading for a while, I recall asking an arachnologist about it and she said that spiders probably excrete out any extra vitamins/materials that they don't need like any other animal and that a nice varied diet leads to a heathy spider. Of course there are people who just exclusively feed one thing or another and don't have problems, I think there is more to the "wet molt" issue than just eating a mouse; said mouse could have been contaminated with something that led to the exo not forming properly. 



vespers said:


> Actually, it seems many posters here don't mimic the natural environments of tarantulas at all really, and don't advocate keeping them in natural enclosures or under semi-natural conditions whatsoever.


It's a bit hard to do so when you don't have the means to individually calibrate each part of the room to a certain temperature. Though I've found my pokies to be much better eaters if I mimic the wet and dry season they experience so I at least attempt to do that for them. I know I can't recreate the microclimate that may be found in burrows but I'm a little more generous with water when it comes to my P.muticus, as a result I see much better size gains per molt and the specimen in general is more easy to deal with.


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## Blueandbluer (Apr 25, 2015)

awiec said:


> Of course there are people who just exclusively feed one thing or another and don't have problems, I think there is more to the "wet molt" issue than just eating a mouse; said mouse could have been contaminated with something that led to the exo not forming properly.


Well, sure. Nowhere was I saying that it means "feed a mouse, kill your spider." I was just trying to point out that there are many question marks about giving Ts hamburger or steak as part of their regular diet, and the wet molt issue is one of them. Not a "reason," but one of many factors one should consider.


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## awiec (Apr 25, 2015)

Blueandbluer said:


> Well, sure. Nowhere was I saying that it means "feed a mouse, kill your spider." I was just trying to point out that there are many question marks about giving Ts hamburger or steak as part of their regular diet, and the wet molt issue is one of them. Not a "reason," but one of many factors one should consider.


Probably a good chance that additives mess up the formation of the exo, the most nutritious parts of the animal are the parts that we throw out generally (organs, eyes etc) so an imbalance of nutrients would not surprise me here. I thought you were referring to people scared of "feeding too much calcium" to cause a wet molt. I think at the end of the day if your spider gets a variety of food, a piece of steak once wouldn't hurt. Though I wouldn't waste that meat on a spider and I don't feel like having a rancid cage because I wanted the "novelty" of feeding a spider steak.


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## Blueandbluer (Apr 25, 2015)

Oh, yeah. I didn't mean to imply steak = instant death, just that I would consider it very unwise to make it a part of a regular feeding routine. We just don't know enough. And yeah, what a waste. I remember some of the really old books recommending ground beef... At least that was cheap. But steak? No dice.


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## awiec (Apr 25, 2015)

Blueandbluer said:


> Oh, yeah. I didn't mean to imply steak = instant death, just that I would consider it very unwise to make it a part of a regular feeding routine. We just don't know enough. And yeah, what a waste. I remember some of the really old books recommending ground beef... At least that was cheap. But steak? No dice.


If I were to say, slaughter a chicken I think a heart or other organ might make a nice treat. In reality my feeders get fed a decent diet so it's not like that I don't care about nutrition for my pets.


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## DVMT (Apr 25, 2015)

vespers said:


> Actually, it seems many posters here don't mimic the natural environments of tarantulas at all really, and don't advocate keeping them in natural enclosures or under semi-natural conditions whatsoever.


You mean they don't live in kritter keepers and acrylic enclosures with coco fiber sub in the wild?!?!?  In-con-ceivable!!! 

All this thread has done is make me hungry for a steak.  Will someone pass the A1?

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## awiec (Apr 27, 2015)

DamonVikki said:


> You mean they don't live in kritter keepers and acrylic enclosures with coco fiber sub in the wild?!?!?  In-con-ceivable!!!
> 
> All this thread has done is make me hungry for a steak.  Will someone pass the A1?


You make me cry with your desire for A1, a good steak needs no topping

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## PRE66 6TART (Apr 27, 2015)

awiec said:


> You make me cry with your desire for A1, a good steak needs no topping


Agreed, but sometimes you have to settle for a mediocre steak with A1.

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## Tim Benzedrine (May 1, 2015)

Blueandbluer said:


> I remember some of the really old books recommending ground beef... At least that was cheap. But steak? No dice.


Actually, they crave Italian meatballs. Or playing tetherball, maybe. I'm not sure...


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## Blueandbluer (May 1, 2015)

Oh god, those old hobby books.... :laugh:


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## Ellenantula (May 1, 2015)

Tim Benzedrine said:


> Actually, they crave Italian meatballs. Or playing tetherball, maybe. I'm not sure...


I've been doing it all wrong, using live feeders.  Thankfully Ts are hardy and have survived on my newbie insect offerings.
I will try this, thanks for the tip!
AB is the most amazing source of T information on the whole web -- bar none.


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