# Check this out...



## Buggin (Jan 2, 2004)

I am quite sure we all like predators so here is a nice vid for ya.
http://www.consumptionjunction.com/downloads/cj_28069.wmv


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## Steven (Jan 2, 2004)

yeah quite impressive,.... my nephew used to have some of those goldfishes,.. till they ate eachother


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## Deliverme314 (Jan 11, 2004)

good lawd!  That was awesome!  Sort sucks that it was a cute rat though


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## Crotalus (Jan 11, 2004)

That video disturbs me. I dont like the comments on it, sounds like two braindead Beavis & Butthead imitations making "heehhee...heee" comments. 
Im not against feeding live animals as prey, I do it almost every day, but these guys dont care of the wellfare of their fish - they just enjoys see that rat die. Reminds me of stupid morons that bash cats or other animals for fun.
Same kind of people.

/Lelle


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## Valael (Jan 11, 2004)

What comments?  Am I just not getting sound?


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## laila (Jan 11, 2004)

Dind't get the sound either.

But I see your point, Lelle....


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## Philth (Jan 11, 2004)

I didnt get any sound either, Although i kinda agree.  A defrosted frozen mouse would of made just a good of video.  I only use live food if i have to.


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## Buggin (Jan 11, 2004)

Dead or Alive, it makes no difference its a feeder animal.


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## manville (Jan 14, 2004)

that video is kindda cool..but at the same time grose..i dont think i would ever do that...how big are your piranhas? i have one not that big..


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## Buggin (Jan 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by manville _
> *how big are your piranhas? *


That was just a vid I found on the net, they do not belong to me.


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## Mendi (Jan 14, 2004)

A real life version of JoeCartoon.com's Joe Fish... I think I like the gerbil version a little bit better though.


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## rapunzel (Jan 14, 2004)

*I suppose that is what makes the world interesting..*



> _Originally posted by Buggin _
> *Dead or Alive, it makes no difference its a feeder animal. *


it is full of all types of people. 
You and I definitely have different views. 
Dead or alive, does make a difference. The way something dies always makes a difference-from a feeder animal to a human.
It is what seperates the compassionate from the Saddams of the world. We have a choice on how to end a life, be it for  food or for pleasure.


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## Jakob (Jan 14, 2004)

Ouch...


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## MrT (Jan 14, 2004)

*Re: I suppose that is what makes the world interesting..*



> _Originally posted by rapunzel _
> *it is full of all types of people.
> You and I definitely have different views.
> Dead or alive, does make a difference. The way something dies always makes a difference-from a feeder animal to a human.
> It is what seperates the compassionate from the Saddams of the world. We have a choice on how to end a life, be it for  food or for pleasure. *


Right on Kim.
I got your back. 

Kill em clean, kill em fast..
Thats the way you do it, clean and fast..


E


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## Buggin (Jan 15, 2004)

So what is the humane way to kill a feeder.
Give a quick smack to the head (blunt trama), or let nature take its course, any way you feed a predatory pet animal is not pretty and if you find the death of a feeder mouse to be so tragic why do you even own a predatory pet? 
:?

Maybe you should start raising Butterflies.


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## rapunzel (Jan 15, 2004)

*the only predatory pets I own are tarantulas*

However, I have owned my share of them in the past. Also, I deal with rodents in research, and there IS a humane way to kill a 'feeder' animal before using it. There is also the risk of your prized pet being injured with live prey. Remember that while nature is not "pretty", many of those predators attain injuries in the wild, and they don't survive long.

The humane way to kill a mouse or rat is to pin it down where the neck joins the skull using a blunt object such as a pencil, laid across the base of the skull, grasp the tail and in one swift motion you pull down, then up and back up over the head. This is done firmly and swiflty and it seperates the neck from the skull, instantly killing the animal. This is the humane way approved by the Animal Welfare Act. 

Owning a predator animal does not justify cruelty. Just because a prey animal is destined to die does not mean you do not have to take certain responsibilities for it . Telling me to start raising butterflies is not an effective argument for your beliefs, or against mine. I was not arguing with you that  predator animals shouldnt be fed, I commented on your words: "Dead or Alive, it makes no difference its a feeder animal"


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## Buggin (Jan 15, 2004)

So snapping its neck is the prescribed method.
 

Tell the mouse that, I guess we will just have to say we will agree to disagree.

Have a nice day.


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## genious_gr (Jan 15, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Buggin _
> *So what is the humane way to kill a feeder.
> Give a quick smack to the head (blunt trama), or let nature take its course, any way you feed a predatory pet animal is not pretty and if you find the death of a feeder mouse to be so tragic why do you even own a predatory pet?
> :?
> ...


So you're suggesting that torturing the mouse on video  for fun before giving  it to the predator is just the same as it will end up dead anyway?? You have to respect the feeder dude, it's just as much of an animal as the predator.

About the video:
  That was quick!! I can't hear anything as well and what disturbes me is the way the piranhas eat. They hit and leave. Animals that dont kill their pray allways tend to disturb me, as seeing the pray strugilng for its life is sth i dont like.
Overall, a very interesting video.

It allways amazes me how much a hunted animal stays active in order to save itself. In the vid, the mouse after loosing a leg still tries to run away allthough I'd expect it to have fainted (Dont think animals faint though).Amazing nature....


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## Crotalus (Jan 15, 2004)

> _Originally posted by laila _
> *Dind't get the sound either.
> 
> But I see your point, Lelle.... *


I seen it before and then it was sound. 

/Lelle


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## Crotalus (Jan 15, 2004)

> _Originally posted by genious_gr _
> *So you're suggesting that torturing the mouse on video  for fun before giving  it to the predator is just the same as it will end up dead anyway?? You have to respect the feeder dude, it's just as much of an animal as the predator.
> 
> About the video:
> ...


I´ve seen documentaries where people have been attacked by sharks and they dont feel any pain. I guess you can relate to that if you walked on broken glass under water, you never feel it until up from the water.
I dont really think the pain is severe in rat, its the guys attitude that disturbed me (well this was a soundfree version)

/Lelle


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## gusman1204 (Jan 27, 2005)

It's funny how lots of people made a comment that a frozen one would b just as good and it would be way more humane. I don't think you people realize that frozen mice and rats that you buy arent just born dead. They die quite a horrible death being frozen alive and that doesnt take 10-20 seconds like the video, it could take hours of sufferring, so think before you judge on whats  not humane and what is


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## pategirl (Jan 27, 2005)

Most companies that sell frozen feeders don't freeze the mice alive, they use CO2 to euthanize the animals. It's supposedly painless, but I don't know from personal experience. IMO, the gas would probably be a lot less painful for the creature than being ripped apart by a fish. Plus, the thawed rodent would be less likely to transmit bacteria and such things to the fish.


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## WhyTeDraGon (Jan 27, 2005)

Buggin said:
			
		

> So snapping its neck is the prescribed method.
> 
> 
> Tell the mouse that, I guess we will just have to say we will agree to disagree.
> ...


I think everyone has their own beliefs about this, and yes, it is nature's way most of the time that animals suffer before they die. But where does human emotion come in? Can't people think of it as a chance to 'spare' this one animal pain and suffering, even if it isnt "nature's way"? Come on, I could never take pleasure in watching a living creature in pain, even if it is nature's way. If there is a more effective way of doing it, then go for it. Those phirana would have taken that mouse dead, and it wouldn't have had to suffer. These people aren't doing it to go with "nature's way", they're sick and they enjoy watching defenseless creatures suffer.  :wall:


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## WhyTeDraGon (Jan 27, 2005)

gusman1204 said:
			
		

> It's funny how lots of people made a comment that a frozen one would b just as good and it would be way more humane. I don't think you people realize that frozen mice and rats that you buy arent just born dead. They die quite a horrible death being frozen alive and that doesnt take 10-20 seconds like the video, it could take hours of sufferring, so think before you judge on whats  not humane and what is


this method is WRONG also. C02 is more humane, IMO.


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## The Juice (Jan 27, 2005)

I am planning on getting a pair of Pirahnas when I get my Income Tax check, But I think I will stick to just Gold Fish and Minnows. Is it cruel to feed live Fish to Parahna's or is it just Mice? or any feeder animal we have a soft spot for? I don't like mice or Rats but I couldn't watch one be Tortured like that. But I was wondering how many People feed their Snakes live prey? I think getting the life squeezed out of you, or being swallowed alive is Cruel and the Mice/Rats suffer. I kinda feel sorry for the Pinkie Mice my Leopard gecko swallows whole, and it's squirming and Sqeeking. But that is how it feeds, But I don't get my Jolly's out of watching this though.


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## RaZeDaHeLL666 (Jan 28, 2005)

My mother had Piranha Fish and that rat wouldn have been just the appetizer. ;P


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## RaZeDaHeLL666 (Jan 28, 2005)

GUSTO said:
			
		

> I am planning on getting a pair of Pirahnas when I get my Income Tax check, But I think I will stick to just Gold Fish and Minnows. Is it cruel to feed live Fish to Parahna's or is it just Mice? or any feeder animal we have a soft spot for? I don't like mice or Rats but I couldn't watch one be Tortured like that. But I was wondering how many People feed their Snakes live prey? I think getting the life squeezed out of you, or being swallowed alive is Cruel and the Mice/Rats suffer. I kinda feel sorry for the Pinkie Mice my Leopard gecko swallows whole, and it's squirming and Sqeeking. But that is how it feeds, But I don't get my Jolly's out of watching this though.


You can use frozen mice. I use em for my three snakes and you can defrost them and throw em in the pirahna tank.


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## The Juice (Jan 28, 2005)

RaZeDaHeLL666 said:
			
		

> You can use frozen mice. I use em for my three snakes and you can defrost them and throw em in the pirahna tank.



I have heard snakes will not always take frozen Mice/Rats even if you start when they are Babies? What do you then?


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## Crotalus (Jan 28, 2005)

GUSTO said:
			
		

> I am planning on getting a pair of Pirahnas when I get my Income Tax check, But I think I will stick to just Gold Fish and Minnows. Is it cruel to feed live Fish to Parahna's or is it just Mice? or any feeder animal we have a soft spot for? I don't like mice or Rats but I couldn't watch one be Tortured like that. But I was wondering how many People feed their Snakes live prey? I think getting the life squeezed out of you, or being swallowed alive is Cruel and the Mice/Rats suffer. I kinda feel sorry for the Pinkie Mice my Leopard gecko swallows whole, and it's squirming and Sqeeking. But that is how it feeds, But I don't get my Jolly's out of watching this though.


The point is: why you feed it with live in the first place. Its not the practise itself that necesserily have to be wrong. 
But a rat in a piranha tank are as stupid as it gets. A more filthy tank after that is hard to imagine. 

/Lelle


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## The Juice (Jan 28, 2005)

Crotalus said:
			
		

> The point is: why you feed it with live in the first place. Its not the practise itself that necesserily have to be wrong.
> But a rat in a piranha tank are as stupid as it gets. A more filthy tank after that is hard to imagine.
> 
> /Lelle



 Yes I agree it's stupid, but would it get the same reaction if it was a goldfish instead of a Rat? People might put less value on a Goldfishes life than a rat but is it really less valuable than a rats? I think people have more of a problem of it being a rat than live prey. My point is some people might not look at the Rat as a Cute & Cuddly pet but just Prey, and look at a GoldFish as cute & Cuddly. whether you feed them a Goldfish or a Rat it might look cruel, But that is the way Pirahnas feed. I am basing my opinion on just the video, not the commentary that I didn't hear.


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## Wolfchan (Jan 29, 2005)

I have witnessed rodents dying from CO2, and it definitely looks less painful than when I had to watch my ex feed live rats to his pituophis.  Yes, I have a soft spot for rats, but even if I didn't, I don't like watching anything die like that.  When I worked in a pet store, I hated hamsters as much as any employee there did (which was a LOT) but I never got the same <EDIT>and giggles that my co-workers did feeding them to the T. blondi and listening to them scream.  

I do wish I could get the video though, it sounds interesting.  Maybe tomorrow I'll feel like figuring out why I can't get it to play.  :wall:


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## orcrist (Jan 29, 2005)

I would feel uncomfortable doing that with any sort of prey other than inverts. If I want to watch pirahnas killing something I'd rather observe it in nature the way it happens naturally. There's no cruelty in the way nature works outside of humanity, just the natural order, but it is cruel to set it up for enjoyment in a fishtank when you could prevent the prey from too much suffering without upsetting the natural order.


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## Crotalus (Jan 29, 2005)

GUSTO said:
			
		

> Yes I agree it's stupid, but would it get the same reaction if it was a goldfish instead of a Rat? People might put less value on a Goldfishes life than a rat but is it really less valuable than a rats? I think people have more of a problem of it being a rat than live prey. My point is some people might not look at the Rat as a Cute & Cuddly pet but just Prey, and look at a GoldFish as cute & Cuddly. whether you feed them a Goldfish or a Rat it might look cruel, But that is the way Pirahnas feed. I am basing my opinion on just the video, not the commentary that I didn't hear.


Probably not. And if you feed the piranhas a kitten then you get a even worse response. What is the point of doing that when you can feed it goldfish or other fish which is more suitable for your piranhas and for the general maintenace of the tank. Piranhas arent very much into eating rats in nature.. They mainly feed on fish. If these guys have other purpose then the pure thrill of a kill then im santa claus..
Then what people think is cute or not makes no difference to me. I just cant stand morons like that.

/Lelle


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## edesign (Jan 29, 2005)

Buggin said:
			
		

> Maybe you should start raising Butterflies.


people make good bear food, sometimes alligators/crocodiles, etc...but talk to anyone who's been attacked by one and survived and they'll tell you how much it hurts. I dont like rats...i don't really care for rodents but they do feel pain and if you have a way to spare them that pain, it is your moral responsibility to do so.

Do you feed dogs and cats live animals? I bet you go to the store and buy them dog/cat food...in the wild they would eat lizards, mice, birds, rabbits, etc. Being ripped apart can't be a fun way to die, and to try and justify it by saying it's "nature's way" is wrong. Things happen in nature all the time, people get sick and die...but we do what we can to ease their suffering. Our pets get terminally sick or mortally injured and those of us who can afford it will take them to the vets and have their suffering eased. Just because it's prey does not mean it should give up the "luxury" (not the word I wanted to use, but I won't call it a "right") of the least painless death. Asphyxiation is probably a lot less painful than having a leg torn off and the rest of your body ripped apart, snapping an animals neck usually results in instant death...not much pain there either.

Might want to do some thinking on your viewpoint about this...it seems to be a little skewed. Perhaps you need to be a feeder animal yourself one time...so you get the full perspective.


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## Immortal_sin (Jan 29, 2005)

edesign said:
			
		

> Perhaps you need to be a feeder animal yourself one time...so you get the full perspective.



LMAO!!!!!
no doubt....


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## misfitsfiend (Jan 30, 2005)

Buggin said:
			
		

> Dead or Alive, it makes no difference its a feeder animal.



 I agree, I dont like rodents at all, they are just feeder animals to me, but throwing one in, just to see it suffer is deffinately disturbing. I almost always use live feeders for my snakes, but its only because I think that the snake enjoys it more when it has to hunt. No matter how much I may not like rodents I would never do something like that. I agree with who ever said a f/t mouse would have worked just as well, or even a piece of fresh liver or heart.


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## misfitsfiend (Jan 30, 2005)

edesign said:
			
		

> people make good bear food, sometimes alligators/crocodiles, etc...but talk to anyone who's been attacked by one and survived and they'll tell you how much it hurts. I dont like rats...i don't really care for rodents but they do feel pain and if you have a way to spare them that pain, it is your moral responsibility to do so.
> 
> Do you feed dogs and cats live animals? I bet you go to the store and buy them dog/cat food...in the wild they would eat lizards, mice, birds, rabbits, etc. Being ripped apart can't be a fun way to die, and to try and justify it by saying it's "nature's way" is wrong. Things happen in nature all the time, people get sick and die...but we do what we can to ease their suffering. Our pets get terminally sick or mortally injured and those of us who can afford it will take them to the vets and have their suffering eased. Just because it's prey does not mean it should give up the "luxury" (not the word I wanted to use, but I won't call it a "right") of the least painless death. Asphyxiation is probably a lot less painful than having a leg torn off and the rest of your body ripped apart, snapping an animals neck usually results in instant death...not much pain there either.
> 
> Might want to do some thinking on your viewpoint about this...it seems to be a little skewed. Perhaps you need to be a feeder animal yourself one time...so you get the full perspective.


  I couldnt agree more, But I think snakes kill mice humainly, They suffocate or die quickly of invenomation. Thats why I dont mind feeding live mice to them.


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## versimomma (Jan 30, 2005)

I think that video is horrible and disturbing and I hope no children watch it who keep pet rats!That would be illegal in this country. The people who did that are cruel. I am glad I didnt hear the laughing.


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## SpaceHawk (Jan 30, 2005)

Watching an animal die whether it is a feeder animal or not still doesn't mean you have to act like there is no respect about what is happening to it.  I hunt ducks and rabbits with my hawks (for falconry) and I respect the hell out of what I chasing with them.  I still like ducks and rabbits and I would save their lives if they were in pain or needed help, even though my birds eat them.  Have some respect, feeder rat or not.  I don't let my birds sit on a dying rabbit for 5 minutes picking at it, if she catches one I break its neck so it doesn't suffer.


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