# Black Widow Infestation



## Laceface (Aug 3, 2009)

Hey guys, As summer wears on, we are finding more and more black widows on our front porch and in our garage. I have a porch swing I always sit and read on, and found this afternoon a widow had made a web, molted, and was hanging out on it...despite the fact that I was on the thing two hours ago. There are egg sacs everywhere (that we burn) but is there anything we can do (naturally, my dog is always running around these areas) to get rid of/discourage the widows? I don't want to get bit, and I don't want the dog to get bit!


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## What (Aug 4, 2009)

Collect the spiders and either flush them or feed them to something... Collecting most of the latros on your porch shouldnt take longer than 20mins-30mins depending on the size.


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## joshuai (Aug 4, 2009)

what could you feed a widow to safely?


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## ErikWestblom (Aug 4, 2009)

joshuai said:


> what could you feed a widow to safely?


Widows are pretty weak when not in their webs. But I still wouldn't risk it.


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## Laceface (Aug 4, 2009)

Yeah... I don't want to even TRY to hunt for them, and sorry, but we kill them in their webs, quite easily, with fire.... I just wanted to know how to discourage them/keep them away.


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## What (Aug 4, 2009)

joshuai said:


> what could you feed a widow to safely?


I have fed them to other latros, Steatoda sp., scorpions, pedes, and isopods. For anything that you are worried about, just clip off a couple of the latro's legs... They are pretty helpless then.


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## 8+) (Aug 5, 2009)

Where are you, and are you sure they're widows?

All the widows I've ever encountered are very secretive, esp. during the day. I've never seen one make a web out in the open, that didn't have a retreat that they hid out in until nightfall.

But, I have heard references in areas of dense population (such as FL), where perhaps competition has forced some to alter there behavior. Whenever I hear these stories, I'm still always skeptical, though... 

I live in Atlanta and while they,re not as common as they are in places like SoCal and FL, I can find them easily anytime I want, but I do have to look for them. Meaning, in rubish, in cinder blocks, or seeing the web and exposing the retreat, etc...


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## Laceface (Aug 5, 2009)

I do live in Florida, and they are definitely widows. They are all over our porch, front and back...normally the ones we actually find are at night, but I have seen them during the day too. They make webs near the roof, which has ridges that they hang in, and between the rails around the porch. They also make webs all over the place in the garage. Believe it, they do make webs in the open here lol. There are egg sacs EVERYWHERE too...we burn all the ones we find, but theres always more.


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## Moose9 (Aug 5, 2009)

A black widow egg sack hatched out in my room a week ago and I spent 3 days killing baby widows. I still find a few straglers in my open mealworm and roach containers feeding. Sitting in my chair and they were balooning all around my room thanks to the swamp cooler being on, the spiders thought it was a summers breeze. Falling from the ceiling onto my arms, etc...I haven't found the mother yet.


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## Laceface (Aug 5, 2009)

Moose9 said:


> A black widow egg sack hatched out in my room a week ago and I spent 3 days killing baby widows. I still find a few straglers in my open mealworm and roach containers feeding. Sitting in my chair and they were balooning all around my room thanks to the swamp cooler being on, the spiders thought it was a summers breeze. Falling from the ceiling onto my arms, etc...I haven't found the mother yet.


That is scaaary. I would have freaked, haha.


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## Widowman10 (Aug 10, 2009)

Moose9 said:


> A black widow egg sack hatched out in my room a week ago and I spent 3 days killing baby widows. I still find a few straglers in my open mealworm and roach containers feeding. Sitting in my chair and they were balooning all around my room thanks to the swamp cooler being on, the spiders thought it was a summers breeze. Falling from the ceiling onto my arms, etc...I haven't found the mother yet.


oh, i'm sorry, but that's pretty funny. hahaha, silly little guys. hey at least they're harmless until they get a lot bigger  still, i can totally see this happening to me. 'cept i would be running around filling up vials! :razz:

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Kathy (Aug 10, 2009)

Moose9 said:


> A black widow egg sack hatched out in my room a week ago and I spent 3 days killing baby widows. I still find a few straglers in my open mealworm and roach containers feeding. Sitting in my chair and they were balooning all around my room thanks to the swamp cooler being on, the spiders thought it was a summers breeze. Falling from the ceiling onto my arms, etc...I haven't found the mother yet.


Thanks, I will surely have nightmare now.  Surprisingly I rarely find black widows around my house anymore.  When I first moved here I found a lot, but haven't seen one in a long time.  Maybe the scorpions killed them off?  Or every neighbor around here besides me is pest control spray crazy if that affects them.


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## Irene B. Smithi (Aug 10, 2009)

I use to have lots of black widows all over the place...  I have a sure answer on how to get rid of them.  Get infested with C. Sculpt scorpions.  As soon as I had them all the black widows went away NO JOKE, I'm so serious.  

Other than that, take out the web if you can't find them.  Every time they build one, if you can't find them, just take out the web.  They'll move, it takes a lot of energy to build and if they have to rebuild then they'll move...  At least that's what my tortoise lady told me.  She's a biologist and chairman of the tortoise group.




kathy_in_arizona said:


> Thanks, I will surely have nightmare now.  Surprisingly I rarely find black widows around my house anymore.  When I first moved here I found a lot, but haven't seen one in a long time.  Maybe the scorpions killed them off?  Or every neighbor around here besides me is pest control spray crazy if that affects them.


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## cacoseraph (Aug 10, 2009)

Widowman10 said:


> oh, i'm sorry, but that's pretty funny. hahaha, silly little guys. hey at least they're harmless until they get a lot bigger  still, i can totally see this happening to me. 'cept i would be running around filling up vials! :razz:


i am unconvinced they are harmless at quite small size


as long as they can bite through the outer layer or two of hard horny skin they should be able to evenomate a human.  don't forget the largest organ in the human body is your skin 


i mean, jellyfish's pneumatocysts only puncture a few thousandths of an inch into your skin... and they can definitely mess up ppl!


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## Irene B. Smithi (Aug 10, 2009)

OMG, I agree with you!!!

 and I didn't know that they look different young!!!  I found these pictures of them, thought I would share.

http://www.kaweahoaks.com/html/latrodectus_hesoerus.html



cacoseraph said:


> i am unconvinced they are harmless at quite small size
> 
> 
> as long as they can bite through the outer layer or two of hard horny skin they should be able to evenomate a human.  don't forget the largest organ in the human body is your skin
> ...


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## cacoseraph (Aug 10, 2009)

kaweah oaks has a cool webpage.  they are within day trip range for me, iirc


one bit of bad info that stood out to me:
"After mating, the female spider takes on the sinister black with red hourglass coloration."

females usually assume their full black coloration when they hit their maturation molt... it has nothing to do with mating.  and for L. hesperus (western widow) they can still have some colors other than black when they are mature.  and they can even seem to lack the hourglass!

oh boo!  they seem to believe most females kill and eat males when mating.  not generally true as far as i can tell, though i have not mated them myself. just read about them a decent amount.











also, to the OP:
i reckon you probably had a fair amount of those spiders around since you moved in or were born there... you are just growing in your power to recognize them, most likely 
my house and garage has quite a few widows and false widows around... i don't worry about them at all.  learn to recognize widow web (probably the strongest web you will ever find w/o leaving the country) and just try to keep your fingers out of it and you should be ok


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## Widowman10 (Aug 11, 2009)

cacoseraph said:


> i am unconvinced they are harmless at quite small size
> 
> as long as they can bite through the outer layer or two of hard horny skin they should be able to evenomate a human.  don't forget the largest organ in the human body is your skin
> 
> i mean, jellyfish's pneumatocysts only puncture a few thousandths of an inch into your skin... and they can definitely mess up ppl!


although i've never done tests on myself, i'm pretty sure they are harmless until they get big. spiderlings are not going to do anything at all to a person until after many instars.


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## cacoseraph (Aug 11, 2009)

Widowman10 said:


> although i've never done tests on myself, i'm pretty sure they are harmless until they get big. spiderlings are not going to do anything at all to a person until after many instars.


that just doesn't hold water to me.... i mean, i do believe it is much more likely they will get smooshed before they can bite compared to an adult.... but i can't picture a physical or physiological reason why they can't bite and envenomate a human right out of the sac


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## Widowman10 (Aug 11, 2009)

cacoseraph said:


> that just doesn't hold water to me.... i mean, i do believe it is much more likely they will get smooshed before they can bite compared to an adult.... but i can't picture a physical or physiological reason why they can't bite and envenomate a human right out of the sac


i'm sure they can envenomate, there's no doubt in my mind about that. all i'm saying is that the effects of the venom is not going to be anything at all until they are adults or very close to it. sure they can inject, many other smaller critters do...


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## chris_vegas (Aug 11, 2009)

Widowman10 said:


> i'm sure they can envenomate, there's no doubt in my mind about that. all i'm saying is that the effects of the venom is not going to be anything at all until they are adults or very close to it. sure they can inject, many other smaller critters do...


Hope your right cos I've handled L. mactans spiderlings MANY times, I just assumed they wouldn't be able to puncture human skin yet.


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## buthus (Aug 11, 2009)

Widowman...take a hesp sac... now, cut yer hand with a sharp knife ...then squash the sac into the wound.  Thats about it...good luck!  :worship: ;P


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## 8+) (Aug 12, 2009)

Yeah, didn't you once report something along those lines happening to your neighbor?


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## cacoseraph (Aug 12, 2009)

Widowman10 said:


> i'm sure they can envenomate, there's no doubt in my mind about that. all i'm saying is that the effects of the venom is not going to be anything at all until they are adults or very close to it. sure they can inject, many other smaller critters do...


my understanding is that the american black widows (hesperus, mactans, and variolus) all inject a super complicated macromolecule that starts chemical chain reactions that produce all the symptoms associated with a bad bite.  as such, it is not really like a normal envenomation where you need to have have a gram injected into you to suffer full affects

don't get me wrong, i play with widows at all sizes... but i just don't think the mechanics are there to say they are completely harmless


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## cacoseraph (Aug 12, 2009)

chris_vegas said:


> Hope your right cos I've handled L. mactans spiderlings MANY times, I just assumed they wouldn't be able to puncture human skin yet.


they don't have to puncture through your skin... they have to get through an extremely thin layer of tough, dead tissue and that's it.  i believe black widow venom can be injected intradermally, that is it can be injected *into* the skin, not through it.  you skin has miles (hundreds maybe thousands, i can't quite remember) of capillaries and veins and stuff in it, all designed to shuffle chemicals around


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## buthus (Aug 12, 2009)

8+) said:


> Yeah, didn't you once report something along those lines happening to your neighbor?


He showed me the webbing ...and the swollen hand. It was no doubt a latro web. He claimed that there was tiny spiders on his hand and that he wiped (smeared?  ) them off.  Cant recall if he headed to the doc or not though.
Nope...i wont call that proof ...but a reasonably believable scenario.   


Ive finger squashed many an escaped sling with no apparent affect.. but finger tips ARE tough spots...plus oily and such. 
As for young/"sub-adult" latros... so far...non that ive handled have shown any sign of defensive action besides fleeing from the huge clumsy mammal.    Ive had a few adults show me that they will bite.  


Reduction of population isnt really that difficult.  Go out at night, find adults... transport them to a nice spot and eliminate any sacs.  
Overall, they are beneficial to have around.


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## Irene B. Smithi (Aug 13, 2009)

Wow, I've learned a new word, "SPIDER-HUGGER!!"   Do you really move black widows to a new home???  That's just wild.  I'll agree they are beneficial, and I know their shy, but still, I can't imagine myself caring one around and finding a new home for it...  I have a general rule in my yard, if it's not overpopulated I allow small population of spiders like Wolf spiders and such to run around freely on the perimeter walls, but nothing is allowed to thrive on the house walls, they just end up inside if they do.  And I allow only one black widow in my yard, I know where she is and have yet to see her out at the same time as my son...  so I leave her alone...



buthus said:


> Reduction of population isnt really that difficult.  Go out at night, find adults... transport them to a nice spot and eliminate any sacs.
> Overall, they are beneficial to have around.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## chris_vegas (Aug 13, 2009)

cacoseraph said:


> they don't have to puncture through your skin... they have to get through an extremely thin layer of tough, dead tissue and that's it.  i believe black widow venom can be injected intradermally, that is it can be injected *into* the skin, not through it.  you skin has miles (hundreds maybe thousands, i can't quite remember) of capillaries and veins and stuff in it, all designed to shuffle chemicals around


I might have to re-think my handling policies hmmm...:? 

in my experience though you'd have to do something very stupid/cowardly to convince a widow to bite...they don't seem to regard biting as a defensive technique unless they're guarding an egg-sac. 

That's just my experience though, maybe other people have seen them exhibit different behaviour?


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## buthus (Aug 13, 2009)

> That's just my experience though, maybe other people have seen them exhibit different behaviour?


They are not THAT predictable.  Some will drop and roll even if they have sacs... others will attempt to investigate whats going on and MAY try and defend sacs/webbing. Also, different species seem to have slightly different reactions.  I had an "Alicia" (sp?) widow (s.Am) crawling around on my desk and I put my hand down to let her crawl on ...she just stopped cold when she touched my finger and attempted to tag me. ha...i felt the prick, but either i pulled away in time or it was "dry".  
Some do a sorta taste test when walking on you ...I had a group of menavodi ..they all reacted to handling in a stupidly "brave" and stubborn way ...always scared me cause they would stop and taste ...skin, gloves, brush handle etc.  Didnt mess with em much ...at least not so much via the "cocky method".  

things that seem true(ish)..
A widow forced out of her web/enclosure ...more prone to bite.

Widow choosing to leave a jar/enclosure (thinks yer hand is structure)...less bity. (most handling vids are done this way ...its all a trick!  )

Night/dark/active widows.. more prone to bite.

Daylight... less prone to bite. (if ya want to show off handling a widow right outta her web.. for whatever sillyreason... do it in the bright sun!   )

Sacs... more prone to bite.

Pre-gravid vs gravid ... Not sure...always wondered.  

Feeding and disturbed ...usually they do not defend food against something huge and clumsy. 

Feeding and "gently stimulated" ...another thing in the web! Double score! ...very prone to bite.


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## 8+) (Aug 22, 2009)

Well I have to eat a little, crow and admit that I have three widows living along my front porch railing! One has a retreat that runs down into the square iron pipe at the top of the banister. She has a suitor who has waited for her final molt; which I think occurred the other night 

The other two are juvies I discovered living in light fixtures, on the columns spaced along the rail. I'm pretty sure they are now trapped in, as there are no large openings. It will be interesting to see if males can get in there.

These lights are on all night, and so the food supply is plentiful. Obviously, food supply and competition are enough to make these adaptable spiders alter there natural behavior. I'll post pics if I get the chance.

Wonder how long before/if widows will become actual house spiders...?

It's fun to have outside pets!


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## cricket54 (Aug 23, 2009)

When I lived in Morongo Valley, CA (up the canyons near Palm Springs) I had black widows all over the furniture on my porch. I removed the ones I would find in the house that were in places that you could get bit, but left the ones in the garage, on the porch, and around the yard alone. We had so many bugs out there that they did me a service. I collected a few in jars. They were very shy and non aggressive. When I moved to MS, a bunch of them came with me even though I throughly vacumed out and under all the furniture. I had baby black widows hatch out of the coffee maker in the house even. I had other egg cases hatch out from somewhere, but have not found a single one of the babies that survived. So I am totally unworried about them. The 4 I had in jars are still alive and living out their lifetimes happily as I feed them crickets. I wish I could find southern black widows around here as I know they exist, but have not found a single one. I wouldn't worry too much about your widows unless you have little ones who might try to stick their hands in their webs and touch them. My grandchildren visited me in CA and they were educated about not touching stuff there. We had night time excursions looking at the desert in the dark and finding the widows around the house. I was much more conserned about the Mohave Green Rattlers that occassionaly came on my porch actually.


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## Quetzalcoatl Nyarlathotep (Jul 29, 2018)

Irene B. Smithi said:


> Wow, I've learned a new word, "SPIDER-HUGGER!!"   Do you really move black widows to a new home???  That's just wild.  I'll agree they are beneficial, and I know their shy, but still, I can't imagine myself caring one around and finding a new home for it...  I have a general rule in my yard, if it's not overpopulated I allow small population of spiders like Wolf spiders and such to run around freely on the perimeter walls, but nothing is allowed to thrive on the house walls, they just end up inside if they do.  And I allow only one black widow in my yard, I know where she is and have yet to see her out at the same time as my son...  so I leave her alone...





There is no use for ignorance on arachnoboards. The widows are sacred, and this land belonged to them long before humans arrived. They are beneficial, and one should appreciate all spiders, not just the "cute" ones.


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## MetalMan2004 (Jul 29, 2018)

If you don’t want them, gather them up and sell them on AB.  I almost gaurantee you could make some money.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## AngelDeVille (Jul 29, 2018)

Is there money in reviving long dead threads?

Reactions: Funny 3


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