# Ctenus sp. "red fang" venom



## ReignofInvertebrates (Oct 29, 2015)

I've heard sources say they are medically significant and those that don't.  Anyone have info on their venom??


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## The Snark (Oct 29, 2015)

Do you mean the toxin Pn-Tx3?

Reactions: Like 1


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## ReignofInvertebrates (Oct 29, 2015)

I don't really know much about toxins.  I just am not sure how medically significant Ctenus sp. red fang venom is to humans.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## The Snark (Oct 29, 2015)

Okay, I'm confused. The genus Ctenus is huge with a vast number of members. Did you mean Ctenids which include Ctenus and includes various species that have red 'fangs' including the Phoneutria clan?

Ctenidae: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ctenidae_species
They range in venom from insignificant to containing the Pn-Tx3 toxin that can stop your clock.

I suppose it should be mentioned not all species however closely related have the same venom properties. With Phoneutria, some venoms target invertebrates, one targets mammals. Similar in variations to the better studied and understood Latrotoxins.

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## ReignofInvertebrates (Oct 29, 2015)

Haha, I don't really know to be honest.  Several sellers have them just listed as "Ctenus sp. red fangs."  So, not the family Ctenidae (sorry for the confusion), but the genus Ctenus.  I don't even think theres a common name for them, but theres quite a few images of them on google search.  Pretty sure they're closely related to C. captiosus and hibernalis but I don't know If their venom causes the same reactions.

Tarantula Canada has them listed as Ctenidae sp. red on their new arrivals, but others had them listed Ctenus.  http://tarantulacanada.ca/news.php

UPDATE: Just saw a youtube vid of one performing threat posture, titled "African Phoneutria (Ctenidae sp. red)" now I'm real confused haha..

UPDATE #2: Ok, in the description the guy says they aren't actually in the genus phoneutria, so got that figured out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQQwxvLmTS4


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## The Snark (Oct 30, 2015)

I wish you luck narrowing that one down. With so much mis-identification you are going to need to get the spider in your hands and do some serious sleuthing. Wandering tropical African wolf spider?

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## Chris LXXIX (Oct 30, 2015)

IMO i would consider those a bit on the dangerous side, man. Just the fact that they are somewhat related to genus _Phoneutria_ deserve respect. Some European (and those living in Asia) _Mygalomorphae_ such _Macrothele calpeiana_ share something with _Atrax robustus_. Now i know, they aren't badass like the Australian one, but they aren't "OBT" either (and it's laughable that i used the " " for _Pterinochilus murinus_, because is a badass venom one as well).

Those are spiders that "you" definitely don't want to get bitten by, i can swear this.

To discuss their venom potency on humans would be extremely difficult for a lot of valid reasons... that stated are only my toughts about, of course.

Reactions: Like 1


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## The Snark (Oct 30, 2015)

We need to maintain a 'middle of the road' attitude with spiders biting.

I recall a long essay from one of the students where a class went on a spider hunt with Rod Crawford (Burke museum, arachnid expert). Though they weren't hunting for spiders known to be dangerous and in a locale where there were no known lethal spiders, Crawford reiterated several times to use caution when catching and handling the spiders. "They can give you a good nip" and so on. 

The bottom line being use caution and common sense regardless of the spider. Establish and use safe proper handling protocols and never take wild chances. 

I recall an out take video of Steve Irwin rescuing a snake from a roadway and getting bitten from being too casual. He dived into his truck, dug out the books, and spent a feverish 10 minutes searching before, "Whew! Harmless!."

Bravado and daring do have no place when it comes to handling any animal but especially ones that can munch, claw, poke, or otherwise. Let's learn from Steve Irwin and his encounter with the  'chicken/coward of the sea' stingray.


Personally, I think everyone who wants to handle spiders should start their learning curve with a preggo H Venatoria. If you can get her to do anything you want and always keep her fully contained, roughly about the same as teaching a fish to ride a bicycle, then you can move on to Atrax and Phoneutria.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Chris LXXIX (Oct 30, 2015)

The Snark said:


> We need to maintain a 'middle of the road' attitude with spiders biting.
> 
> I recall a long essay from one of the students where a class went on a spider hunt with Rod Crawford (Burke museum, arachnid expert). Though they weren't hunting for spiders known to be dangerous and in a locale where there were no known lethal spiders, Crawford reiterated several times to use caution when catching and handling the spiders. "They can give you a good nip" and so on.
> 
> ...


_Heteropoda venatoria_ is your "mantra" spider  It's not the first time that i've heard you mention that "flash" eight legged. They're lovely.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## The Snark (Oct 30, 2015)

I can't help it! Slings are impossibly cute; born curious. They just have to inspect every nook and cranny and everywhere else, including your body: Might be some tasty bug between those toes! When the youngsters invade downstairs it's like having a couple dozen over curious eight legged gravity defying kittens romping the place.
Then around the final molt they turn into overpowered near brain free speed demons. Want fast? Out came a tokay facing off with a 3 inch leg span female, face to face. She ran over his face, down his length and escaped.


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## Chris LXXIX (Oct 31, 2015)

The Snark said:


> I can't help it! Slings are impossibly cute; born curious. They just have to inspect every nook and cranny and everywhere else, including your body: Might be some tasty bug between those toes! When the youngsters invade downstairs it's like having a couple dozen over curious eight legged gravity defying kittens romping the place.
> Then around the final molt they turn into overpowered near brain free speed demons. Want fast? Out came a tokay facing off with a 3 inch leg span female, face to face. She ran over his face, down his length and escaped.


What about the bite? I know that their venom isn't even near to OBT, for instance, but i've heard is painful :-O

You are lucky to live among those man, btw


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## The Snark (Oct 31, 2015)

Chris LXXIX said:


> What about the bite? I know that their venom isn't even near to OBT, for instance, but i've heard is painful :-O
> 
> You are lucky to live among those man, btw


Never had one bite. Even try to bite. They are refined hunters and only bring the fangs out when a pretty rigid criteria is met. It's all but impossible, at least in the wild, to get them to do a threat display. Around here kids keep them as animated pets and try to keep them on their arms as long as they can. (And catch them when they leap to safety).
Their venom supposedly is a stab of a nail ouch that quickly goes away to fang marks in a half hour. That makes sense. Subdue and eat ASAP. Their hunting territory is wall to wall predators and the fastest, most elusive, or best armored, wins. Second place  is usually in the tummy of a skink, gecko, frog, toad, bird or scorp. That's reflected by their favorite hangouts: high in a tree or on a wall where they can see the enemy coming and bolt.


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