# Natrix Natrix! Noob seeking advice on how to care.



## Marvin (Jun 7, 2010)

Hi you guys! I was so lucky to find a Natrix natrix in the forrest the other day, so I decided to take it home with me. What can off substrate do they need? At the moment its in a homebox with the same earth i use for my spiders as substrate. Any advice on how to care for this? This is my first snake


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## Marvin (Jun 7, 2010)

Can anyone who owns one of these snakes tell me if this is correct ? : 



> As their droppings tend to be semi-liquid, they should be kept in a cage with an easily cleaned floor. Paper towels or black and white newspaper are recommended. Sand, gravel, wood chips and corn cob bedding should be avoided. Living plants should not be kept in the cage, as they increase the humidity level.


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## Falk (Jun 7, 2010)

Take it back to the forrest and leave it there


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## MichiganReptiles (Jun 7, 2010)

Falk said:


> Take it back to the forrest and leave it there


I have to agree. It would probably be much happier being in the forest and/or near water, eating frogs and fish.


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## J.huff23 (Jun 7, 2010)

Falk said:


> Take it back to the forrest and leave it there


Yep I agree.


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## Marvin (Jun 7, 2010)

Wouldn't all snakes? Is it because its wild caught that you think I should put it back or is it because this snake in general is not happy being kept privat? Sorry couldn't find the words for this. bad english


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## pitbulllady (Jun 7, 2010)

Marvin, care of European Grass Snakes is identical to that of North American Water and Garter Snakes.  The only difference between _Natrix_ and _Nerodia_ is that the former lays eggs, while the latter area all live-bearers.
They are basically kept exactly as you would a Corn or King Snake-DRY substrate with a bowl of fresh water large enough to soak in and drink from, which you will need to change often, due to many of these snakes using the bowls as toilets.  Because they eat primarily fish and frogs, they DO have very runny and very smelly poop and you'll need to clean their cages often, which is why I recommend newspaper, not wood shavings(many types of wood shavings are highly toxic to snakes, especially pine or cedar), since it is easier to replace.  I don't know about Grass Snakes, since those really aren't available in the US pet trade, but nearly all Garter and Water Snakes are easy to switch over to mice, by scenting the mice with fish.  Just drop a few dead mice into a plastic bag with some fresh fish fillets from the market, and freeze the whole lot, then thaw up together.  Jiggle a mouse by the tail with tongs(NOT your hand, unless you want to have a hungry snake attached to it; these guys have terrible aim)and more likely than not, the snake will grab it and start eating!  After awhile, when the snake is feeding entirely on scented mice, you can start to eliminate the fish part of the equation, and the snake will accept just frozen/thawed mice.  They have much less smell and less watery poop that way, and you will avoid all the health problems associated with certain fish that contain the enzyme Thiaminaise, such as goldfish, as this can be very harmful to snakes.

At the present, nearly all members of the genus _Nerodia_ in captivity in the US are wild-caught snakes, as there are only about 3 people, myself including, even attempting to breed these.  I have not heard of any European breeders working with _Natrix_, probably because they aren't perceived as "exotic" or "unusual" enough.  That is a shame, because native snakes can and do make very rewarding captives.  I have absolutely no qualms at all about taking a wild snake into captivity, providing it with a steady and healthy food source, protection from predators, medicine if it gets sick, help with shedding, etc.  Snakes do not form abstract thought processes like, "gee, I wish I was back in the woods, where I had to run from predators, defend myself, go hungry for weeks at a time, put up with ticks and other parasites".  As long as their needs are being met, they will thrive.  When trying to establish a viable captive breeding population, it is necessary to remove some animals from the wild, and from time to time, it is also necessary to include wild-caught "fresh blood" to prevent captive gene pools from becoming genetically "stagnant".  Both of my Suriname Boa Constrictors are wild-caught imports, imported as young adults, not as babies, yet they are both as tame and laid-back as any of my Colombians, who are the products of many generations of selective captive breeding.  If those two animals were not sitting in large cages in my room, they could very well have become food for another predator, or a belt for one of Suriname's bauxite miners. There is certainly no indication that these, or my wild-caught Water Snakes, are "unhappy" and are wistfully longing to go back to the jungles or swamps from whence they came.  If it is legal to take snakes from the wild and keep them where you live, Marvin, I have no problem with it.

pitbulllady


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## Falk (Jun 8, 2010)

Marvin you cant even spell its name correctly


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## Marvin (Jun 8, 2010)

@Pitbullady 

Hi  I thank you very much for taking your time to write this post. It has been very useful to me and there for I am thankfull. 



pitbulllady said:


> They are basically kept exactly as you would a Corn or King Snake-DRY substrate with a bowl of fresh water large enough to soak in and drink from, which you will need to change often, due to many of these snakes using the bowls as toilets.


Great infomation. I will try to change the dirt substrate with newspapers and see how it goes. At the moment it has a piece of wood as a hide. I will throw up a picture of the enclosure once its done. 




> Because they eat primarily fish and frogs, they DO have very runny and very smelly poop and you'll need to clean their cages often,


Not a problem. I will be happy to do it for this beauty 



> which is why I recommend newspaper, not wood shavings(many types of wood shavings are highly toxic to snakes, especially pine or cedar), since it is easier to replace.


Thank you so much. I was actually talking to a mate about the substrate, and we both agreed on that wood chips would be the best for it. Thank you! 




> I don't know about Grass Snakes, since those really aren't available in the US pet trade, but nearly all Garter and Water Snakes are easy to switch over to mice, by scenting the mice with fish.  Just drop a few dead mice into a plastic bag with some fresh fish fillets from the market, and freeze the whole lot, then thaw up together.Jiggle a mouse by the tail with tongs(NOT your hand, unless you want to have a hungry snake attached to it; these guys have terrible aim)and more likely than not, the snake will grab it and start eating!  After awhile, when the snake is feeding entirely on scented mice, you can start to eliminate the fish part of the equation, and the snake will accept just frozen/thawed mice.  They have much less smell and less watery poop that way, and you will avoid all the health problems associated with certain fish that contain the enzyme Thiaminaise, such as goldfish, as this can be very harmful to snakes.


I will definitly give this ago! Sounds like an easy and good plan for both me and the snake 



> At the present, nearly all members of the genus _Nerodia_ in captivity in the US are wild-caught snakes, as there are only about 3 people, myself including, even attempting to breed these.  I have not heard of any European breeders working with _Natrix_, probably because they aren't perceived as "exotic" or "unusual" enough.  That is a shame, because native snakes can and do make very rewarding captives.


It is cool that you are trying to breed them. I for sure think they a really NICE animals! 



> I have absolutely no qualms at all about taking a wild snake into captivity, providing it with a steady and healthy food source, protection from predators, medicine if it gets sick, help with shedding, etc.  Snakes do not form abstract thought processes like, "gee, I wish I was back in the woods, where I had to run from predators, defend myself, go hungry for weeks at a time, put up with ticks and other parasites".  As long as their needs are being met, they will thrive.


This part I like the most. Cheers :clap: I will do my best to make sure this snake stays wealthy


I hope I may contact you in the future for further infomation I will try to throw up a picture later when I have rehoused it.


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## Marvin (Jun 8, 2010)

Falk said:


> Marvin you cant even spell its name correctly


Okay. Great post. Very informative.


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## pitbulllady (Jun 8, 2010)

Well, no Marvin, I did NOT say that wood chips would be best for this snake.  In fact, wood chips or wood shavings of ANY kind are actually quite BAD for snakes of this type, because they hold moisture and provide breeding grounds for harmful bacteria, which will soon make the snake very sick.  NO WOOD CHIPS, NO WOOD SHAVINGS!  Too hard to clean!  You will have to clean this cage at least every other day if you feed it fish or frogs, and this is not practical with wood chips.  I use newspaper with all of my _Nerodia_ and _Thamnophis_(Garter Snakes, Ribbon Snakes).  It is easy to replace and does not support bacterial growth well.

pitbulllady


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## Marvin (Jun 9, 2010)

pitbulllady said:


> Well, no Marvin, I did NOT say that wood chips would be best for this snake.  In fact, wood chips or wood shavings of ANY kind are actually quite BAD for snakes of this type, because they hold moisture and provide breeding grounds for harmful bacteria, which will soon make the snake very sick.  NO WOOD CHIPS, NO WOOD SHAVINGS!  Too hard to clean!  You will have to clean this cage at least every other day if you feed it fish or frogs, and this is not practical with wood chips.  I use newspaper with all of my _Nerodia_ and _Thamnophis_(Garter Snakes, Ribbon Snakes).  It is easy to replace and does not support bacterial growth well.
> 
> pitbulllady


I know  You miss understood me I guess. I ment thanks for telling me, since I was just about to buy them.


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## MichiganReptiles (Jun 9, 2010)

Marvin said:


> Okay. Great post. Very informative.


Good answer! Lol

PBL is awesome, isn't she? Good luck with your new snake. Let us know how it goes. Post some pics!!!


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## MichiganReptiles (Jun 9, 2010)

pitbulllady said:


> Well, no Marvin, I did NOT say that wood chips would be best for this snake.  In fact, wood chips or wood shavings of ANY kind are actually quite BAD for snakes of this type, because they hold moisture and provide breeding grounds for harmful bacteria, which will soon make the snake very sick.  NO WOOD CHIPS, NO WOOD SHAVINGS!  Too hard to clean!  You will have to clean this cage at least every other day if you feed it fish or frogs, and this is not practical with wood chips.  I use newspaper with all of my _Nerodia_ and _Thamnophis_(Garter Snakes, Ribbon Snakes).  It is easy to replace and does not support bacterial growth well.
> 
> pitbulllady


I don't mean to hijack the post but am curious what the best subsrate is for my boas?


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## Marvin (Jun 9, 2010)

MichReptiles said:


> Good answer! Lol
> 
> PBL is awesome, isn't she? Good luck with your new snake. Let us know how it goes. Post some pics!!!


She has been a good help so far. Thanks man. Ill keep you updated. Here is a picture 



Guessing its a she since the tail is thin. I read that the males of this species has a more thick tail compared to the females. Does anyone know for sure?


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## pitbulllady (Jun 9, 2010)

MichReptiles said:


> I don't mean to hijack the post but am curious what the best subsrate is for my boas?


Boas can do well on aspen, cypress mulch, newspaper, corn cob bedding, almost anything that can be used for most snakes, since Boas don't poop like Water Snakes do(thank goodness)!  They have very solid, formed poop and urates, a lot like dog poop, so it's pretty easy to scoop up, though you will need something like a coal scoop or a small shovel later on to do said scooping.  Water Snakes poop like Mynah Birds.  It's very loose and watery and they do it often, especially if fed frogs or toads.  They will have to go every day as their kidneys get rid of the toxins from the frog or toad skin.  You have to keep them on something that can be easily changed with regular frequency and easily replaced, that cannot be ingested along with their food(shavings tend to stick to fish or frogs and get swallowed).

pitbulllady


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## Crysta (Jun 9, 2010)

aww that little girl is so beautiful!! Although I can't tell you if its a girl or not! Natrix with their diet seem like they would adapt well to captivity. Room temperature should be no problem with them either, if its a local species. (although i would worry if you have airconditioner.) 

enjoy your snake!


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## Marvin (Jun 9, 2010)

CentipedeFreak said:


> aww that little girl is so beautiful!! Although I can't tell you if its a girl or not! Natrix with their diet seem like they would adapt well to captivity. Room temperature should be no problem with them either, if its a local species. (although i would worry if you have airconditioner.)
> 
> enjoy your snake!


She ( I hope ) really is  I will try to make it feel as much home as possible, and if I feel that its happy and has a good home I will keep it. If not I will find a very nice place in the forrest near some water and let it go. I'm hoping for the first option. 

I'm guessing temperatures aren't a problem since its a native snake, so even when its alitle chilly in my room, the snake wouldn't bother because it would still be more cold out in the forrest?


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## Marvin (Jun 9, 2010)

BTW. 

I'm very much searching for inspiration on how to make a nice enclosure for these kind of snakes. If anyone who owns one would be able to throw up a pic or two of how their enclosures look it would be very much appreciated Also, what size enclosure do they need? I'm willing to spend some money on this for both me and the snake


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## Crysta (Jun 9, 2010)

as long as it isn't colder then outside. On the other side, I find if you keep native snakes warmer then outside they will die off relativity quick.  What part of europe are you from?  Do yo have snow? If you do I'd recommend hibernating it during the winter time as well.

enclosure would be as long as the snake and half the with i think. I never kept my snakes in enclosures much longer then themselves.


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## Marvin (Jun 9, 2010)

CentipedeFreak said:


> as long as it isn't colder then outside. On the other side, I find if you keep native snakes warmer then outside they will die off relativity quick.


If this is the case, the snake cannot stay at my place, since I have Ts in the same room, and they for sure need some heat. Would you be able to apply a link to that statement? 




> What part of europe are you from?  Do yo have snow? If you do I'd recommend hibernating it during the winter time as well.


I'm from Denmark. It is summer now, so no snow at the moment. At winter, we do have snow though. How do I hybernate it? and what would happen if I didn't ?  [ 



> enclosure would be as long as the snake and half the with i think. I never kept my snakes in enclosures much longer then themselves.


I see. In that case I should probably start looking for a new enclosure for it right away. Its just in a big homebox at the moment. I'm guessing the snake is almost one meter long.


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## Crysta (Jun 9, 2010)

your in denmark!! you snake should be fine in your T' room then  I thought you were in a colder area of europe. 
Heres a link to a website i found with a quick search. It says it needs water to hold the entire body, meaning curled up comfy water dish should be fine. 

http://www.michellecaldwell.com/linkfiles/scaredcricket/articles/speciesspotlight/natrix.html

Just put the snake in the basement where its 0c all the time, for the span of the winter months.  If you don't, he might be wanting to since his internal clock is fixed to hibernate so he might refuse food for a few months anyways, and to reduce energy usage the snake looks for a place to rest so he doesn't lose much weight while the winter months are passing. This is just theory though, i've only hibernated gartersnakes and redbellies, but I think the same might go for natrix.


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## Marvin (Jun 9, 2010)

CentipedeFreak said:


> your in denmark!! you snake should be fine in your T' room then  I thought you were in a colder area of europe.
> Heres a link to a website i found with a quick search. It says it needs water to hold the entire body, meaning curled up comfy water dish should be fine.
> 
> http://www.michellecaldwell.com/linkfiles/scaredcricket/articles/speciesspotlight/natrix.html


Thanks for the link. Very useful  I will do alitle more research on hybernating, and return to this thread, probably with more questions


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## missscarlett (Jun 9, 2010)

*Natrix Natrix Noob*

Is just yanking this snake out of the wild like that legal? If so, I guess I should grab every wild tarantula out of AZ I can find...they'll be so much safer with me
Seriously, taking a wild animal with the correct permits might be just fine if you know how to breed them and the knowledge goes to good use. Just grabbing a snake because it looks cool and you want a pet is questionable, no? Many wild species (especially those not being bred in captivity) are on a serious decline! If you really like this snake, get involved in conservation for that species or it's habitat. Turn this little snakey loose, try your husbandry and breeding skills on something like corns, THEN see if you can make a difference to breed this declining species. Just a thought...


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## Crysta (Jun 9, 2010)

im not from europe, but is denmark apart uk? lol
http://www.arkive.org/grass-snake/natrix-natrix/info.html

This species is fully protected against being sold, injured or killed in the UK under the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 (3). One main aim of the conservation strategy for this species is to educate people about the grass snake, and to encourage them to tolerate its presence (6).

I guess if he doesn't sell it, or hurt it, or kill it? And I am pretty sure he will enjoy tolerating the natrix. 

as a kid when i was like 6 i used to keep garter snakes and all that, I am sure there are many people who've done the same. Though you probably will say that doesn't make it right? I guess it depends on what the person thinks. 

Miss, think about all those ball pythons imported out of africa, the adult g roseas people by at pet stores, most people keep them as pets, never even attempting to breed them. In a way we all have a hand in the declining of species by using gas, and other harmful chemicals, and those products of the computer you're using. Maybe by this guy keeping this snake he will educate others that this really isn't a pitviper, and they will learn to reconize it, insted of killing this species on sight. Maybe you think this should be left to people with permits, but it's also some of those people not making the effort to share their abundance of knowlege with the majority of people.


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## ZephAmp (Jun 9, 2010)

Just my two cents...
Everything Pitbullady said; I agree. 
They're basically egg laying garter snakes (_Thamnophis_.)
Beautiful girl you've got there.


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## pitbulllady (Jun 10, 2010)

missscarlett said:


> Is just yanking this snake out of the wild like that legal? If so, I guess I should grab every wild tarantula out of AZ I can find...they'll be so much safer with me
> Seriously, taking a wild animal with the correct permits might be just fine if you know how to breed them and the knowledge goes to good use. Just grabbing a snake because it looks cool and you want a pet is questionable, no? Many wild species (especially those not being bred in captivity) are on a serious decline! If you really like this snake, get involved in conservation for that species or it's habitat. Turn this little snakey loose, try your husbandry and breeding skills on something like corns, THEN see if you can make a difference to breed this declining species. Just a thought...


Not all places have laws that prohibit taking native wild animals and keeping them in captivity. MY state, South Carolina, actually ENCOURAGES people living in the state who want an unusual pet to seek out and keep native species, so if they do escape, they won't have to worry about non-native animals establishing here.  They'd much rather see someone capture a King Snake or Rat Snake than bring in an exotic species.  Do not assume that every place has the same laws.  Laws can backfire and often do.  In neighboring Georgia, it's so strict that you cannot even have a Snow Corn or a Leucistic Black Rat, even though those are bred in captivity from many generation in captivity.

AND, as I have already pointed out, there are many species of snake for which there are no well-established captive breeding populations, for whatever reasons.  This is the case with my Water Snakes; I am one of only about 3-4 people in the US actually trying to propagate them in captivity.  If I had to depend on captive-bred stock for my breeding program, suffice it to say that I'm going to have some really messed-up, highly, highly inbred snakes that no one in their right mind would want to buy!

ALL of our tarantulas, and scorpions, and reptiles for the most part, are closely descended from recently wild-caught animals.  Do YOU keep those just because "they look cool", as you are assuming that Marvin is doing?  You DO realize that many of those, including many animals you might be keeping, are rarely bred in captivity, so most are likely to be wild-caught, right?  Why would you assume that his reasons, or MY reasons, for wanting to keep a certain animal are any different from yours?  Know what this is?  This is PETA and HSUS getting through to you, convincing you that collecting wild animals is always wrong.  It is Animal Rights-Speak, and it's a dangerous path.  It IS true that many species in the wild are on the decline, which is all the MORE reason to try to establish as many viable breeding colonies IN CAPTIVITY as possible,  if we want to keep those species from becoming extinct!  Take the Eastern Indigo Snake, for example.  They are critically endangered and possibly only exist in a relatively small part of Florida now.  It's illegal to keep or breed them without an expensive Federal permit, so there are very few breeders working with that species.  Even fewer zoos are trying to breed them, so if something happens to the remnant wild populations, like a disease or a hurricane or massive wildfire, that wild population could be pushed over the edge, and then what?  With it being so difficult to get to keep them in captivity, that could mean the end for a beautiful species.  At least with a viable captive breeding population that is large enough to be  genetically diverse, we can still have a world with Eastern Indigos in it.  

And I have to ask, just HOW do you know that _Natrix natrix_ is declining, world-wide?  This is actually the most common snake species in Europe.  They may be on the decline in the UK, but that is just an island, a tiny fraction of the entire European continent.  Don't assume, as I said, that every European country has the same laws that the UK, or your home state in the US, has.  The Grass Snake's decline in the UK has nothing to do with people capturing them from the wild, by the way, but is due to habitat loss and a decline in prey.  It's like some of the Midwestern US states protecting Black Rat Snakes from being collected because they are rare there, but here where I live, they are everywhere!  IF this guy Marvin was going around capturing Grass Snakes by the thousands and selling them to anyone and everyone who had the Euros, then there could be a problem, but he's not.  If he follows my guidelines, he's actually got a very good pet snake, one which has been sadly overlooked by captive breeders for the same reasons that Water Snakes have-not perceived as pretty or unusual enough, though to be nasty-tempered and difficult to keep, none of which are true.  

And no, CentipedeFreak, Denmark is not part of the UK, so they would not have the same laws.

pitbulllady


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## Marvin (Jun 10, 2010)

I woke up this morning to check on my snake, when I saw that it was no longer inside its enclosure. It was so hilarious!  I found it inside my computer hehe. Fun experience for me, but I think maybe the snake was alitle stressed out since it pooped and made that awfull smell they do. But its back in its dear home now


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## Marvin (Jun 10, 2010)

By the way, these snakes are not allowed in captivity in Denmark for unknown reasons. As in many other european countries, you can find these snakes everywhere in Denmark. I do not know why they are not allowed to keep, I just know that I found like 10 on the same spot, and thats why I took one home with me. I know a place where they lay in like 100's because they have hybernated during the winther. It is in my fathers garden, and he is doing some work there so next weekend I go there to wake them up and set them free in the forrest.


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## pouchedrat (Jun 10, 2010)

And my state Maryland, it is OK to keep something like 3 native snake specimens as long as they're not on the list of protected snakes.   I have two southern ring necks who apparently are native to here (didn't know until after I bought them from a person in Florida) and it's ok.  I can apply for a special permit if I breed them or sell them.  I forgot how much it was per year, but that's really it.  

All states are different.  I'm sure all countries are as well.

/edit-  it's actually 4 native snakes from a certain list, and up to 25 eggs or tadpoles taken from the wild. the uncommon list, you can possess 1.  Also, any albino, color mutation, partial albino, etc, as a result of captive breeding, from the list you can possess as many as you'd like.


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## LovePets (Jun 11, 2010)

...pouchers....:barf:


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## pouchedrat (Jun 11, 2010)

??  I purchased them from a person in Florida.  I did not go out and collect them from the wild, I didn't even KNOW they were native to this state until long after I bought them (I thought only northerns were native to here.  Hell I didnt' even know GREEN SNAKES are native to here, I used to see them for sale in New York CONSTANTLY!!).  They're long term captive juveniles and are doing great... 

I was just saying that different states and countries have different laws.  That is all.  Not sure what the vomit and angry smiley is for.  I'm sorry I bought snakes from a reptile dealer in another state and set them up with a naturalistic enclosure and feed them worms and slugs, I guess...?


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## pitbulllady (Jun 11, 2010)

LovePets said:


> ...pouchers....:barf:


You got something against Pouched Rats, dude?  Or kangaroos, maybe?  They have pouches, so I guess they'd be "pouchers".

A "poacher", by the way, is a person who illegally kills game animals out-of-season, usually for profit, to sell parts of the animal, or who kills protected, Endangered species for profit, like people who kill tigers to sell their skins and bones to make traditional Asian "medicine" and aphrodesiacs.  If people did not LEGALLY capture animals from the wild, there would NOT be any for YOU to own in captivity, like tarantulas and scorpions, although I could be mistaken that you actually keep animals.  We unfortunately get a lot of Animal Rights trolls on here who do not believe in keeping animals, or who think that they are the one person on the planet with the knowledge to keep animals.

pitbulllady


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## missscarlett (Jun 11, 2010)

Actually Webster says "Poach:To take fish or game illegally".  So since Marvin knows that this species is protected from being kept, just to be clear, he is, indeed "poaching". TOTALLY besides the point I was making, which is that Marvin should be clear about the local laws AND that a wild-caught animal is PROBABLY not the best "first pet" for a self-proclaimed "noob"! I think both points are fairly sound to a reasonable person.
I have no beef with animals in captivity, but as a reptile rescue and rehabber, I have to do alot of educating school kids on why it's not great to grab a local snake in their yard and let it die miserably when a corn would have been, probably, a much better choice.  And may I point out that before I responded, at least three other people posted the same sentiment of "let it go!". Not sure why you gave me such a venomous answer and talking about "Animal Rights Trolls", but maybe you should examine your own feelings about other people sharing their differing opinions, as we all have a right to do, correct?
I hope Marvin can do right by this little snakey, but if not, I'm glad to see he would turn it loose before it goes downhill, and hopefully get a captive bred beauty instead (gee, I don't think I ever said he shouldn't have a snake...).
Chillllll-aaakkkss, me peeps!


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## LovePets (Jun 12, 2010)

pouchedrat said:


> ??  I purchased them from a person in Florida.  I did not go out and collect them from the wild, I didn't even KNOW they were native to this state until long after I bought them (I thought only northerns were native to here.  Hell I didnt' even know GREEN SNAKES are native to here, I used to see them for sale in New York CONSTANTLY!!).  They're long term captive juveniles and are doing great...
> 
> I was just saying that different states and countries have different laws.  That is all.  Not sure what the vomit and angry smiley is for.  I'm sorry I bought snakes from a reptile dealer in another state and set them up with a naturalistic enclosure and feed them worms and slugs, I guess...?


I am not refering at you pouchedrat,sorry if I wasn't clear. :wall:
And yeah,I wanted to say poAchers,my bad. :8o
I was refering at Marvin.Is illegally to keep native snakes in most of the Europe,but if you really want a native species you can buy a cb one.
In plus,as missscarlet said,a wc animal isn't the best option for a first pet snake.
I am a fieldherper in becoming,so I caught a lot of grass snakes,I take some photos and release them.I wanted a pet snake and I bought a CB baby cornsnake(but I was forced to sell it),I didn't caught a wild snake and kept it.
If Marvin really want a pet snake,he can choose from a big variety of exotic snakes that are cheap and easier to care for than a grass snake.
Thats all I had to say. 
I wish you all the best,
Florin!


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## Crysta (Jun 12, 2010)

hmm when I was 8 my first pet snake was a wild snake. Then when i was 11 i had salamanders... No help from anyone else, except the internet, and then there wasn't too much on them as there is today. They aren't harder to keep then a cornsnake. Eitherway, I think theres people who have corn snakes, and don't take care of them properly either, like keeping too warm, ect. But it depends on the person. 
What's the difference of buying a cb bred native species when they are illegal to keep? Their genes where wild once.


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## ThomasH (Jun 12, 2010)

Falk said:


> Marvin you cant even spell its name correctly


Falk you can't even put the apostrophe between the n and the t. Let's not judge people's competence and ability by grammar, mkay?

Husbandry for this species is fairly simple and basic, I'd just put it in a twenty gallon with a big enough water bowl to soak, a heat spot and maybe a hide or two.

TBH


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## Marvin (Jun 19, 2010)

Hello everyone! I went to the forrest today, and decided to set free the little snakie. I'm sure they can do well in captivity, but I didn't have enough cash or space to give it a decent home. So I put it back into the forrest near a really beauty full lake. It went straight into the water 

Thanks to everyone who gave me advice! I'm hooked on snakes now and I will be needing your advice again soon enough when I get another snake!


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## Crysta (Jun 19, 2010)

that's great marvin  good luck in the future.


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## Marvin (Jun 19, 2010)

CentipedeFreak said:


> that's great marvin  good luck in the future.


Thank you very much and like wise to you!


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## current218 (Jun 19, 2010)

*regarding laws for keeping domestic snakes..*

Well if Denmark has the same laws as Sweden do (which i think they have) the law says that you can keep native species, but the can't be WC. Every native reptile over here is actually so protected that if you're gonna be honest to God by the book you can't even lift them up without breaking the law. Much less take them home with you. 

BUT.. You can keep them captive IF they are CB and you have the documentation to prove it. So that means that I can't take a snake hook with me out in the woods and pick up a Vipera berus (the only viper native to sweden) for phptography unless i have special permits for research, but i can go to a reptile convention and buy a snake of that species providing i get the proper documentation from the seller (breeder info, clutch number etc etc) to prove that the animal is CB. I would think that the same laws apply in Denmark, seeing as there aren't too many differences in laws between the Scandinavian countries.


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## pitbulllady (Jun 20, 2010)

current218 said:


> Well if Denmark has the same laws as Sweden do (which i think they have) the law says that you can keep native species, but the can't be WC. Every native reptile over here is actually so protected that if you're gonna be honest to God by the book you can't even lift them up without breaking the law. Much less take them home with you.
> 
> BUT.. You can keep them captive IF they are CB and you have the documentation to prove it. So that means that I can't take a snake hook with me out in the woods and pick up a Vipera berus (the only viper native to sweden) for phptography unless i have special permits for research, but i can go to a reptile convention and buy a snake of that species providing i get the proper documentation from the seller (breeder info, clutch number etc etc) to prove that the animal is CB. I would think that the same laws apply in Denmark, seeing as there aren't too many differences in laws between the Scandinavian countries.


That sounds pretty reasonable, actually.  I wish our neighboring state of Georgia(US)would adopt that policy instead of a very strict, NO NATIVE ANIMALS PERIOD, policy.  You cannot even have something like an albino Motley Corn Snake or a Leucistic Black Rat Snake because both species are native to the state, even if you can prove yours were captive-bred.  Because most Colubrid snakes found in the eastern US do share subspecies with Georgia species, this means you can't keep have most native eastern species at all.  Unfortunately, for those "get-a-foot-in-the-door-if-you're-a-breeders" species like _Nerodia_, which so few have bothered to work with in the past, but which are just now starting to catch the attention of breeders, that really limits your possibilities to obtain bloodlines, since virtually all of them will be wild-caught.

I picked up several wild-caught Water Snakes yesterday at a reptile show, including a VERY gravid female normal Banded_(Nerodia fasciata fasciata)_ and a very odd-looking(possibly gravid, not sure) female Florida Banded(_N. fasciata pictiventris)_ that I would call a "Caramel Hypo", almost a "Ghost", since she's got very little pattern on her, period.  I also got a big female Northern_(N. sipedon)_, who could also be gravid, but sadly prior to capture appears to have had a run-in with an idiot with a .22 caliber rifle.  She has a healing(seems to be on the outside, anyway)double puncture, perfectly round, on her dorsal and ventral side, which is almost certainly a "through-and-through" bullet wound.  The guy I got her from said she IS eating, and her weight is good, but I had a gun-shot snake before that was eating for awhile then developed peritonitis and died from his injuries.  I also got a 50/50 hybrid between a Banded and a Red-Belly Water Snake(_N. erythrogaster)_, a rather odd-looking little snake.  Even the injured Northern is as sweet as can be, and there are some nice potentials for some interesting captive-bred morphs down the road, but without being able to obtain the first breeding stock out of the wild, you're stuck.  You can't just go to any reptile breeder and find these guys.

I could still do physical harm to the guy who showed me pics of a BLUE axanthic/anerythristic Banded he caught and then released because he didn't think anyone would want a "stinky mean old Water Snake no matter what color it was", though.

pitbulllady


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## Natrix natrix (Oct 23, 2012)

*Polluted environement*

I do not think, if the environment is wrong, it is bad to take Natrix natrix from the wild. I am thinking to take some from behind our house next year, to take care of. They live in a ditch filled with frogs, but the ditch is so polluted, that you can walk over the trash on the water.
I see them each summer, but they getting less and less and the pollution becoming more and more. In the Ukraine, where I live, they are protected, but they are offered normally on the internet also for sale, mostly wildcatched. The police does not check, unless there is made report.

I try to get some to give them a better living. I do not think a polluted ditch is the perfect environment.

The information given here will help me a lot. Thanks.


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