# Androctonus Australis Hector (Tunisia & Tendrara Morocco) PRO HELP



## ArachnoDrew (May 27, 2017)

I have only known there to be 1 type of Australis "Hector morph" from Tunisia but it has recently been brought to "MY attention" that there are a RARE few that come from (Tendrara morocco), there is VERY VERY VERY little research anywhere on them. The only proof I've actually seen of them is on for sale lists from German breeders.. I have yet to see anything on them here on AB ANYWHERE are their any "Australis pros" that can chime in and tell me of they know anything about them? I currently own 1.1 Hector from tunisia and have 1.1 Hector from Morocco on the way but would like to know more about the two..... I know Hector is a color morph but is there a worth noticing difference between these 2 hectors other than locality


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## ArachnoDrew (May 27, 2017)

@Scorpionluva @gromgrom @brandontmyers @RTTB @HUNGRYBEASTS

Reactions: Agree 1


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## RTTB (May 28, 2017)

Well there are experts here with far more knowledge and experience than me but I would be happy to assist a fellow fanatic with their scorpion passion.


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## RTTB (May 28, 2017)

Something about cryptic highly venomous scorpions from remote regions of North Africa really intrigues me.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Stugy (May 28, 2017)

ArachnoDrew said:


> I have only known there to be 1 type of Australis "Hector morph" from Tunisia but it has recently been brought to "MY attention" that there are a RARE few that come from (Tendrara morocco), there is VERY VERY VERY little research anywhere on them. The only proof I've actually seen of them is on for sale lists from German breeders.. I have yet to see anything on them here on AB ANYWHERE are their any "Australis pros" that can chime in and tell me of they know anything about them? I currently own 1.1 Hector from tunisia and have 1.1 Hector from Morocco on the way but would like to know more about the two..... I know Hector is a color morph but is there a worth noticing difference between these 2 hectors other than locality


Well... If it is from a German breeder I would say it is probably true. Those Germans are real good with their scorpions and the European hobby tends to get non-U.S. species first anyways :/ May I ask which breeder is this from?


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## ArachnoDrew (May 28, 2017)

One of them I've seen was off a Facebook page from a Guy in Germany.  2nd source and time I've seen them for sale was recentlly.from them same breeders that my 2 tunisia hectors came from. He has them labeled as 
Hector (Tunisia) & Hector (Tendrara morocco). And another reliable breeder from Switzerland also has them labeled the same way on his for sale list


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## gromgrom (May 28, 2017)

I've got a pair and two subadults


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## ArachnoDrew (May 28, 2017)

Of which ones


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## Anoplogaster (May 28, 2017)

Perhaps @ButhidaeBomb can chime in?

Reactions: Like 1


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## ArachnoDrew (May 28, 2017)

Hese who I'm purchasing from lol

Reactions: Like 1


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## Anoplogaster (May 28, 2017)

ArachnoDrew said:


> Hese who I'm purchasing from lol


He's awesome!


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## Scorpionluva (May 30, 2017)

I'm sure The person from Germany who has this rare locale specific morph of Australis hector is legit ..... BUT it wouldn't surprise me if others would try to capitalize on this new found locale morph by selling normal Tunisia hectors as the morroco hectors   
Hectors are awesome in either case

Reactions: Agree 3


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## RTTB (May 31, 2017)

I highly recommend ButhidaeBomb.


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## ButhidaeBomb (May 31, 2017)

I didn't chime in earlier because it may have been a conflict of interest.  but yes....the hector from Tunisia and morocco are both legit.  

!!!scorpionluva!!!  where the heck have you been?!  tried to text you the other day.


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## juanignacio (May 18, 2018)

I just heard of this Hector morph don't have one yet but will have one as soon as my friend breeds successfully still must wait until then


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## THR (Jan 5, 2019)

I was heard that the hectors from morocco are pitch black in both chela and metasoma, and the hectors from tunisia are comparatively lighter. Yet I've also seen records of hector from algeria, I wonder what do they look like.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Koh_ (Jan 5, 2019)

Right THR,
Here is my pair of ones from Tunisia. both and adult. 
When they were young, the chela and metasoma were close to ‘pitch black’ with slight gradiation. Then it become  olive-ish brown. Ive been keeping mines in 3rd generation now , i found out that chelas on females are less dark than male ones.


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## Koh_ (Jan 5, 2019)

As far as i know, in the hobby,  the 'morrocan' hectors were more actively introduced in Germany from a couple guys in 2-3 years ago, including Georgio. I could be wrong.


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## THR (Jan 6, 2019)

Koh_ said:


> Right THR,
> Here is my pair of ones from Tunisia. both and adult.
> When they were young, the chela and metasoma were close to ‘pitch black’ with slight gradiation. Then it become  olive-ish brown. Ive been keeping mines in 3rd generation now , i found out that chelas on females are less dark than male ones.


Yeah these are tunisia hectors. My defination is based on adults. Pics below are the usually-called morocco hectors.


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## THR (Jan 6, 2019)

Koh_ said:


> Right THR,
> Here is my pair of ones from Tunisia. both and adult.
> When they were young, the chela and metasoma were close to ‘pitch black’ with slight gradiation. Then it become  olive-ish brown. Ive been keeping mines in 3rd generation now , i found out that chelas on females are less dark than male ones.





Koh_ said:


> As far as i know, in the hobby,  the 'morrocan' hectors were more actively introduced in Germany from a couple guys in 2-3 years ago, including Georgio. I could be wrong.


But there are also questions on the hybrid. I wonder whether there are collected WC morphs which are actually posterities of tunisia and morocco morphs. That, I assume, depends whether there exisits a geographical barrier to prevent them from hybridization in the very first place. If the ones you bought from the sellers are pure, then it will be easier to define what a tunisia or morocco hector looks like. I think the morocco hectors are really rare, most hectors are from tunisia. So if you are going to define a hybrid, you must have a morocco hector. Below is a pic of a hybrid of AAH and AAL.


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## THR (Jan 6, 2019)

THR said:


> Yeah these are tunisia hectors. My defination is based on adults. Pics below are the usually-called morocco hectors.


One more thing about the morocco hectors, as is defined before, the morocco hectors are pitch black in both chela and metasoma. But there are some morphs which are only pitch black in chela, I wonder if it is a mutation in genes.


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## THR (Jan 6, 2019)

As is described in <Scorpions of the world>, illustrated by Roland Stockman and Eric Ythier and foreword by Victor Fet, hectors are also from Algeria, besides Tunisia and Morocco.


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## THR (Jan 6, 2019)

As for the tunisia hectors, another question is related with the type subspecies, Androctonus australis australis. I was heard that the AAA is complete yellow, which I assume they looks like fig.1, 2 & 3. Fig.4 is a picture of AAA I found in here.


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## THR (Jan 6, 2019)

Yet there are pics labelled as tunisia hectors, which have a similar color pattern of AAA above. Their chelas and metasomas are really bright, the carine are orange to red rather than the normal brown to black. So a question is raised, are those tunisia hectors not AAA? Or what does a real AAA looks like?


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## Dry Desert (Jan 7, 2019)

THR said:


> Yet there are pics labelled as tunisia hectors, which have a similar color pattern of AAA above. Their chelas and metasomas are really bright, the carine are orange to red rather than the normal brown to black. So a question is raised, are those tunisia hectors not AAA? Or what does a real AAA looks like?


I know the original post was in May 2017 but seems to be still in debate, here are my thoughts on Androctonus australis hector. 
With many other Androctonus from Morocco i.e:- 
A. gonneti
A. liouvillei
A. mauritanicus and 
A. sergenti - all from Morocco and all very similar to A. australis with various colour forms in each maybe we are looking at one of these other Androctonus rather than a colour morph of A.australis hector. 
A. crassicauda is of course from Kuwait/Arab Emirates. 
As far as I am aware " hector" is only found in Tunisia   - Scorpions of the World has been known not to be 100% accurate as far as locale is concerned.


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## THR (Jan 14, 2019)

Dry Desert said:


> I know the original post was in May 2017 but seems to be still in debate, here are my thoughts on Androctonus australis hector.
> With many other Androctonus from Morocco i.e:-
> A. gonneti
> A. liouvillei
> ...


Here are my rough diagnosis of the black Andros you mentioned above:
A. gonneti: Yellowish legs, basic color is reddish brown to brownish black. A little shiny.The ventral lateral carines of the 5th metasoma has an inward curve near the anus, and outward near the 4th segment. (Fig. 1)
A. liouvillei: Different locales with different characters. General color reddish brown to brownish black. Most morphs' chelas are long. The ventral lateral carines of the 5th metasoma is almost luna-shaped, the inflection point of the arc is at the middle. (Fig. 2,3)
A. mauritanicus: Basic color is mattle black, the chela is a little shiny compares to the other body parts. The sexual dimorphism of the chela is comparatively noticeable. The inflection point of the ventral lateral carines of the 5th metasoma is near the 4th segment. (Fig. 4,5)
A. sergenti: Small size with long chela and tiny holes on metasoma. (Fig. 6,7)


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## THR (Jan 14, 2019)

Dry Desert said:


> I know the original post was in May 2017 but seems to be still in debate, here are my thoughts on Androctonus australis hector.
> With many other Androctonus from Morocco i.e:-
> A. gonneti
> A. liouvillei
> ...


I'm aware that the Scorpions of the World has some inacurate informations, yet I can barely find any papers towards the morphology of A. australis sensu lato. The only paper I have read recently is about the A. a. garzonii and A. a. hector from Tunisia, but I can't fully understand it. Below is the document.
If you have any other papers, please do send me.


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## Dry Desert (Jan 14, 2019)

THR said:


> I'm aware that the Scorpions of the World has some inacurate informations, yet I can barely find any papers towards the morphology of A. australis sensu lato. The only paper I have read recently is about the A. a. garzonii and A. a. hector from Tunisia, but I can't fully understand it. Below is the document.
> If you have any other papers, please do send me.


A.amoreuxi amoreuxi - A. amoreuxi baluchincus - A. amoreuxi levi, are all similar colouration to " hector " and all can be found in Morocco.


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## THR (Jan 14, 2019)

Dry Desert said:


> A.amoreuxi amoreuxi - A. amoreuxi baluchincus - A. amoreuxi levi, are all similar colouration to " hector " and all can be found in Morocco.


You sure about the name A. amoreuxi baluchincus? They do all have a yellowish color, but similar to each other only in coloration.


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