# Best Vertical Height for Terrestrial Tarantula Enclosure?



## CABIV (Mar 10, 2016)

Hi,

I've had an Aphonopelma seemanni since October.  She appears to be doing just fine, even considering the following scary story to go with my question.

I had been keeping her in a low, flat plastic critter keeper,  but I was unhappy with the cage.   Its configuration made it difficult to observe the tarantula,  and  hard to  perform routine maintenance (filling the water dish,  removing spent food boluses)  without removing the whole lid.   This tarantula gets a bit pannicky if her cage moved to much, and she would dart out of her hide when I tried to clean things,  which concerned me (when I picked her up from the petshop, she outran the girl in the store, and nearly escaped behind the store shelves!).

I've had some luck keeping other terrestrial tarantulas in a 5.5 gallon tank with a sliding lid,  so I figured  this would solve most of the problems.    The mistake I made was not filling up the substrate very high.

Late last night, I woke up to silence a cricket that my tarantulas had not,  to find her  hanging from the screen by her  first right leg,  dangling far from the glass,  her other legs curled.    She looked like she was drooling everywhere (clear liquid on her mouth and all over the cage)!    In my half awake state, I though she had died!  It then occurred to me that she was grooming herself (I've seen Pink Toes do this),  though this position was quite precarious!

I tilted the cage to the side to allow her to swing over to the side, and I plucked at her claw, freeing her.  Safely on the ground, I inspected her with a bright light, and found no signs of injury.

This morning,  she seemed alright, and I scooped her up again to fill in her cage with all the coconut choir I had left.   I'm not sure if this is enough but maybe I am overthinking it.

In any event,  what is the ideal height for a terrestrial tarantula, so that the next time she decides to "hang out",  she doesn't have a nasty fall?

Pictures-

Not a good overall pick, but originally there was only a few inches of substrate, taken last night before bed-



This morning I scooped her up and then filled everything as high as I could with coconut choir. Again, difficult to see in the photograph, but the 5.5 gallon tank is about half full. 



Pictures for fun.  Fun fact, the SEPTA trolley and bus are in HO scale.  My train friends say I should make monster movies with my tarantulas.  Not sure that's a good idea though.

You can see the height difference, since the tank next door to the left (housing my G. rosea) has the lower depth of substrate I originally used).


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## Bemottled (Mar 10, 2016)

Hello!
Do you have a screen top? Ts can get stuck in those, like you observed. An acrylic top would ensure this doesn't happen. I'm sure there's threads on modifications out there! Acrylic isn't hard to work with. In the mean time, some plastic wrap stuff that you use for food can be placed under the screen to make sure her little feet don't get stuck. I did this with mine 'til I got her to a new enclosure.

The height should be about the length of your Ts DLS(Diagonal Leg Span), plus an inch and a half or so. This will ensure any falls won't hurt her.

It takes a lot of substrate to fill an aquarium, which is why I switched to a Kritter Keeper  The opposite of yours, as it were. Luckily my G. porteri is bombproof and doesn't mind the top coming off!

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


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## AlbatrossWarrior (Mar 10, 2016)

Yes, height should be about the length of your tarantula's DLS, although I wish Kritter Keeper's tops were see-through, since my H. gigas (not in a KK but in a container with an opaque lid) likes her substrate to be super high so their's barely any room above the ground and she is kind of hard to see. I just cleared away some sub to give her more room to molt, with my bare hands, bravest thing I've done so far, lol.
This thread just reminded my tha my B. albopilosum's substrate is way too low, man I have so much cage maintenance to do...

Instead of buying a KK, you could cut a piece of plexiglass to fit the top of the tank and drill holes into it, although that's a bit of work (for my personal tastes haha)

BTW, your A. seemmani is freakin' gorgeous <333

Reactions: Like 1


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## BobBarley (Mar 10, 2016)

Beautiful A. seemani you have there!  I agree with Bemottled and AlbatrossWarrior, though I'dd like to add that if you're ok with less visibility, you can use a Sterilite container.  Just poke some holes in and you'll be fine.  I actually prefer one of those but I understand if you'd rather have more visibility if you have less t's.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## viper69 (Mar 10, 2016)

You could put that T into a ExoTerra Breeder Box, the largest size they make w/out worrying about damage to the T from falls etc.

1.5x-2.0x their DLS is the best height for a terrestrial T.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Heavnsix (Mar 10, 2016)

Hey Viper, what do you think about KKs? I have my LP Juvie in one and it has got to be in premoult, for at least a month. I wonder if the KK is giving too much ventilation? I covered about 40% of the grates on the top with medical tape two weeks ago and still no molt.


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## viper69 (Mar 10, 2016)

Heavnsix said:


> Hey Viper, what do you think about KKs? I have my LP Juvie in one and it has got to be in premoult, for at least a month. I wonder if the KK is giving too much ventilation? I covered about 40% of the grates on the top with medical tape two weeks ago and still no molt.


I've used KKs A LOT for a very long time, no problems for NW and some OW terrestrials.

What size is the T? The effect of the grating IMO is minimal in your case as I don't recall Lps being sensitive to humidity like other species, but I could be wrong. I don't know much about them.

Also there's no scientific proof that increased humidity helps Ts molt. Some owners have speculated changes in atmospheric weather resulted in molts (Poec and myself for example). We have no scientific proof of this mind you, but some of us think there's an effect.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Yanose (Mar 10, 2016)

i agree with the above statements ditch the screen lid they suck for tarantulas as they do not keep in climate your T can get stuck on them or lose one of its tarsal claws and a determined T can chew through the mesh. replace it with a hard acrylic top with some air holes drilled in it. Or replace it with the aforementioned sterilite locking top box. i personally prefer them for all my tarantulas


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## Heavnsix (Mar 10, 2016)

viper69 said:


> I've used KKs A LOT for a very long time, no problems for NW and some OW terrestrials.
> 
> What size is the T? The effect of the grating IMO is minimal in your case as I don't recall Lps being sensitive to humidity like other species, but I could be wrong. I don't know much about them.
> 
> Also there's no scientific proof that increased humidity helps Ts molt. Some owners have speculated changes in atmospheric weather resulted in molts (Poec and myself for example). We have no scientific proof of this mind you, but some of us think there's an effect.



This could just be confirmation bias but both of my premolt Ts transitioned from premolt to Molt within a day after I upped their humidity. My GBB got about 5ML of water on its sub and my Avic got some on its sub and also down the bark under its web hammock. 

All told, I really don't like that KK, I'm going to move it into something else whenever it finally Molts. It's about 1.5"


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## viper69 (Mar 10, 2016)

Heavnsix said:


> This could just be confirmation bias but both of my premolt Ts transitioned from premolt to Molt within a day after I upped their humidity. My GBB got about 5ML of water on its sub and my Avic got some on its sub and also down the bark under its web hammock.
> 
> All told, I really don't like that KK, I'm going to move it into something else whenever it finally Molts. It's about 1.5"


I think you will find the same experience for some people, and others not the case. The mysteries of nature.

I don't blame you for wanting to move out of KKs. I've started to do the same thing for most of my collection over time. The one thing I hate about most KKs, at least the ones coming from China is the lids go on rather tightly such that if you need to remove the entire lid the T is pretty well disturbed, same for putting it on. It won't kill them, but I like to disturb them as little as possible, that's why I moved some of my Ts into ExoTerra Breeder Boxes.

I keep my Rose Hair in my KK because s/he hates anything I do, so the container won't matter hahah


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## CABIV (Mar 11, 2016)

Well,  so far an she seems to be doing OK (though I failed to take GOOD pictures).  She ended up burrowing nearly vertically down the side of the tank, then burrowed under the buried end of her half-log house.    Much like a cat,  she seems to think she is safe despite the fact that her rear end is sticking out the giant hole she dug.    She was busy moving earth and grooming herself  last night, and was still sitting there at the bottom of her cage this morning.  






viper69 said:


> I don't blame you for wanting to move out of KKs. I've started to do the same thing for most of my collection over time. The one thing I hate about most KKs, at least the ones coming from China is the lids go on rather tightly such that if you need to remove the entire lid the T is pretty well disturbed, same for putting it on. It won't kill them, but I like to disturb them as little as possible, that's why I moved some of my Ts into ExoTerra Breeder Boxes.


Yeah, that was my main motivation for moving.  The Kritter Keeper it was in was not very different fro the "Breeder Box"  I found when I search it.   It was one of these-






Once you fill it with substrate, there really isn't any good angle to look at the spider,  and many times the "ventilation" holes on the sides inhibit my view,  and don't make it easy to take pictures.    As you have pointed out,  the lid fits VERY snugly.    Its not necessarily a huge strugle to get the lide off, but then it does shake the tank up quite a bit.   Even snapping those plastic lids down was enough to make most of my tarantulas nervous.   




BobBarley said:


> Beautiful A. seemani you have there!  I agree with Bemottled and AlbatrossWarrior, though I'dd like to add that if you're ok with less visibility, you can use a Sterilite container.  Just poke some holes in and you'll be fine.  I actually prefer one of those but I understand if you'd rather have more visibility if you have less t's.


That is my case.   I only have three tarantulas and  scorpion.  I have maybe one or two more "slots".  I'm fairly content with a small handful.   I realize that the 5.5 gallon tanks are  bulky, and I think if I was going to go for the "big collection",  I might consider the little stackable containers like you suggest.     




BobBarley said:


> Beautiful A. seemani you have there!





AlbatrossWarrior said:


> BTW, your A. seemmani is freakin' gorgeous <333


Thanks!


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## AlbatrossWarrior (Mar 11, 2016)

CABIV said:


> Yeah, that was my main motivation for moving.  The Kritter Keeper it was in was not very different fro the "Breeder Box"  I found when I search it.   It was one of these-
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, those breeder boxes aren't exactly my thing either. I don't mind Kritter Keepers, for dry terrestrials, but I don't like the side vents on the breeder box


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## viper69 (Mar 11, 2016)

CABIV said:


> Well,  so far an she seems to be doing OK (though I failed to take GOOD pictures).  She ended up burrowing nearly vertically down the side of the tank, then burrowed under the buried end of her half-log house.    Much like a cat,  she seems to think she is safe despite the fact that her rear end is sticking out the giant hole she dug.    She was busy moving earth and grooming herself  last night, and was still sitting there at the bottom of her cage this morning.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's not a BreederBox in your post, that's something else. ExoTerra does make something like Lee's, they are called Faunariums. 

Breederboxes look a bit different, the nice thing about them, they have a side opening door for dropping in prey, and for using a syringe to fill up the water dish instead of always opening the entire lid off. Makes husbandry A LOT easier than what you posted above.

Here's the BBoxes http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products/breeding_box_terrariums.php

Reactions: Helpful 1


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## CABIV (Mar 12, 2016)

viper69 said:


> That's not a BreederBox in your post, that's something else. ExoTerra does make something like Lee's, they are called Faunariums.
> 
> Breederboxes look a bit different, the nice thing about them, they have a side opening door for dropping in prey, and for using a syringe to fill up the water dish instead of always opening the entire lid off. Makes husbandry A LOT easier than what you posted above.
> 
> Here's the BBoxes http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products/breeding_box_terrariums.php


Well, they're definitely an improvement on the  low flat cage.  I might consider these if i ever get more tarantulas,  the stacking sounds good.


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