# Please help bitten and dont know what could caused it



## Godly (Jul 2, 2013)

So not sure if this is appropriate here in this forum but I recently was bitten by an unknown spider or some sort of insect. Ive seen a spider in my room once before months ago that maybe the culprit it had a red bands on its cephlathorax and a black background and hairy body all I can remember also it was about 2in at the time I saw it. It was over 4-5 months ago when I discovered it randomly one night when I was watering my b. emilia but it looked like a funnel spider but with red bands or triangle square or some sort of shape hard to remember but clearly was not a widow or a spider I recognized at all haven't seen anything exactly like it yet. I tried to get a picture but it moved very quickly which bothered me. Haven t seen it since but have noticed since I went on a 2 week trip that a horizontal web was made in a undisturbed corner in my room where a lot of mayflies were caught. I had my window open and I grow carnivorous plants which require lots of water which they must have bread and got out of control while I was gone. I vacuumed immediately and try to clean the area but the first night back I was bit three times on my right hand which caused enough pain and itchy to wake me up and I slept in a different room. Upon waking noticed three bite marks one had what looked like two puncture wounds while the rest looked like mosquito bites. I thought nothing of it they had minor swelling like a typical mosquito bites but the two puncture wound had a white center but only itched very badly. On day 2(today 7/2/2013) upon waking up my hand swelled up immensely and had a traveling swelling up my arm running closely to brachial artery line all the way up to my arm pit which all kept getting more swollen but no pain, cramping, no functions affected except for insane itching fatigue and headache the last two symptoms developed today. Went to physician which did not know the cause or what to do gave antibiotics injection in my arse and oral medication(clindamycin 300mg) both of which have not done anything to the site. Asking if anyone is familiar with this or maybe an allergic reaction to a bite of some sort waiting couple more hours before heading to ER.  Again if anyone can help it would be great hopefully I'm not about to lose my arm or something. 
I know it doesnt help that I cant ID the spider or what caused it but any advice will help Im fairly certain its a spider of some sort. Most recent are the ones with permanent marker.


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## Godly (Jul 2, 2013)

I live in north USA in minnesota and dont really have any pests or seen any brown recluses, widows, or any other typical dangerous spiders around area or house even. Any other information I can give to help will be done.


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## The Snark (Jul 2, 2013)

The red streak means it has gone systemic. Travelling up the veins towards the heart. IE, GET YOUR HINEY TO AN ER NOW! As for what the cause is, it more resembles an active angry bacterial infection than a bite. Staph, Cat bite fever (Pastuerella Multocida) or similar.

Nomenclature. It MAY be a bite, but the symptoms aren't specific to a venom. The concern is cellulitus, lymph system involvement, and potential blood poisoning (the red streak). These are all indicative of a bacterial infection. Bacterial infections with these symptoms are MUCH WORSE and MORE LIFE THREATENING. Be prepared to get a massive dose of broad spectrum antibiotic(s) IV and a possible stay in the hospital.
You have no symptoms of an allergic reaction. Spider bites do not, as a rule, go systemic like that. What is missing, and what is going to make it hard to diagnose, is lack of indicators at the site of injury such as pus. The only spider bite that comes to mind that would possibly resemble your symptoms is phoneutria and they just aren't happening in your neck of the woods.

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## Godly (Jul 2, 2013)

As I feared.... it has only gotten bigger as well. Im off to the ER wish me luck mates Ill report later if they find the cause of it.


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## MrCrackerpants (Jul 2, 2013)

Godly said:


> As I feared.... it has only gotten bigger as well. Im off to the ER wish me luck mates Ill report later if they find the cause of it.


You need a big shot of antibiotics.  Best to you.


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## Godly (Jul 3, 2013)

Well blood work came back normal they are running more tests I'm being ived fluids steroid cream and peptin Claritin visceral. Nurse practitioner didn't know what it could be their contacting infectus disease control to see if their doc's can help. Also I was in Argentina for two weeks that's when I returned I got bit so maybe something came with. One suggestion was chagaswhich is like the kissing bug but my face isn't swollen and eyes. Keeping fingers crossed.


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## The Snark (Jul 3, 2013)

Sounds like you brought home a tropical disease or infection. Fingers crossed. Last I heard they have only fully identified about 15% of the estimated tropical diseases. I'm glad that they haven't moved to the flagyl augmentin cocktail. That in itself is promising.


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## The Snark (Jul 4, 2013)

If you would, and please don't think of it as idle morbid curiosity, could you toss an update our way every now and then? A friend of mine, a physician of many years, has gone back to school studying tropical/3rd world diseases and he hounds me constantly for field reports. And BTW, am really hoping it isn't chagas.


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## Smokehound714 (Jul 4, 2013)

Looks like a spider bite, to me.  looks like inflammation caused by a swollen lymph node, which is VERY common with any sort of spider bite.

  dont take my word for it, though.  I could be wrong.

---------- Post added 07-04-2013 at 02:09 AM ----------

Looks like a spider bite, to me.  looks like inflammation caused by a swollen lymph node, which is VERY common with any sort of spider bite.

  dont take my word for it, though.  I could be wrong.


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## tODDski (Jul 4, 2013)

I am a MD whom usually works in 3rd World Countries - I donate my time and degree. With the info and pics that you've given, I will say almost without a doubt that you have Chagas. I've seen thousands of Chagas cases. Good news is, you're still in the acute phase; at least, from what I've seen. You need to contact the CDC immediately if your physician hasn't. Only they have the vaccine in the US.


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## Smokehound714 (Jul 4, 2013)

I highly doubt it is trypanosomiasis.  While it looks similar, with the red line, I doubt it's chagas, because the symptoms would be far worse.

 There is no such thing as a vaccine for chagas disease, considering trypanosomiasis is a parasitic infestation, and not a viral infection.

  You sure you're an MD?  or are you a webMD, instead?


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## tODDski (Jul 4, 2013)

Smokehound714 said:


> I highly doubt it is trypanosomiasis.  While it looks similar, with the red line, I doubt it's chagas, because the symptoms would be far worse.
> 
> There is no such thing as a vaccine for chagas disease, considering trypanosomiasis is a parasitic infestation, and not a viral infection.
> 
> You sure you're an MD?  or are you a webMD, instead?


You should read more, the vaccine was developed this year. Igor C. Almeida, Ph.D., professor of biological sciences, has developed a fully protective vaccine against the parasite that causes the disease – Trypanosoma cruzi or T. cruzi.


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## Smokehound714 (Jul 4, 2013)

Forgive my ignorance regarding this matter.  Vaccines are useless when you have symptoms already.  


 Still aint chagas, though


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## Godly (Jul 4, 2013)

Well after a night in the ED getting pumped with fluids and bunch of antibiotics they never were able to determine what caused the problem or what it could be besides a bacterial infection. My entire arm still itches like hell but inflammation has gone down and the creeping red line has stopped creeping which has made me less worried thankfully. It was 4 fingers away from auxilla(arm pit) which is a danger zone for obvious reasons. I have couple of follow ups coming up in couple days here with infectious disease control and more doctors. The cellulitis has gone down but very slowly my hand is still pretty swollen looking and has even spread a little past the lines but not up my arm. The medication they gave me is a muscle relaxer and antihistamine so Ive been extremely fatigued these past days reason I haven't been updating even today been pretty hard to do normal activities. Ive been trying to spot the culprit but still no luck it may have just been a mosquito carrying some sort of aggressive bacteria? Just a hypothesis still. Overall Ive been recovering but still feeling weak and crappy as hell my arm itches like crazy and all the medication must have helped even though it didnt feel like it. 

Also they went over chagas with the infectious disease doctor who reviewed where we went over Argentina which certain areas did have bad outbreaks of chagas and malaria but lucky I would be very very very sick if I had either of those and if I had symptoms that strong that quickly more then likely I would be a dead man. Basically they said if it came out that pronounced its a bad sign. Also only way to cure it is to catch it early and fight it with a beneficial bacteria or some sort my mother explained it she is native to Argentina.

On a side note Ive noticed my B.Emilia has been standing on her tippy toes if that means anything which is quite strange behavior. 

I also appreciate the concern and advice y'all gave. I'm still kinda concerned about sleeping in my room now I sleep in a different room far far away.


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## Roktman (Jul 5, 2013)

I hope all goes well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2


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## The Snark (Jul 5, 2013)

Well, it sounds like a bacterial infection. Actually, your symptoms are identical to when I got a cat bite. I was fortunate in a way that they were able to extract and culture some pus. It still took around 7 days for them to get it down to the exact bacteria. In your case they may never find out I guess as you are responding well to the presently used AB.

Providing it's bacterial here's what you probably can expect. The red streak will just fade, The cellulitis will become more diffuse and spread a bit more but will become thinner. The farking itching can take weeks to go away but hopefully it will be sooner. That's actually anaphylaxis which can remain until every last bit of the symptoms are gone and the cause eliminated. The rest of the symptoms just fade away, usually in a 2 to 3 week time line at the most. Am really glad symptoms are in regression. Please keep us posted? 
PS Cute critter.

PPS I'll give you a black comedy anecdote here. After I had the cat bite 8 hours later it was one angry intensely sore infection. I went to the ER. At the time I was a nurses aid at that ER as well as a paramed ambulance attendant that used that hospital. Anyway, the infection was really angry, cellulitis 12 hours after bite. Red streak. Whole arm in agony. They had me check in and loaded me with antibiotics IV push. Well, the kicker was the doc didn't clue the lab about the mechanism of injury. So the lab spent 3 days just coming back with gram negative. After a week in the hospital it finally came back Pastuerella Multocida. Their broad spectrum ABs had knocked the infection down a bit and I wanted out of that place. I mean, up in that docs face LET ME OUT!
Well, the doc didn't know me. He was an E.N.T. the ER usually never had contact with. He wants me to stay for another 10 days on the specific antibiotic. Fark that feces. I dragged my arse down to the ER to my favorite doc and told him my predicament. He had the nurse call social services and the big mama of SS and the QA queen of the place arranged my discharge. 

You see, some docs schedule procedures and stays in the hospital according to the patients insurance policy. That's where the QA department comes in. The insurance abuse docs tend to walk on eggshells around them. This doc knew my insurance carrier was solid gold as it was the hospitals and his practices carrier. PFFTB! Anyways the ER doc literally had the nurses load me up with an armful of IV sets and the antibiotic and sent me on home. Nothing quite like do it yourself repair job. Better than another 10 days staring at the ceiling down on the floor.

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## Godly (Jul 5, 2013)

Ha I work in the healthcare field so I completely understand most of these doctors and can predict usually how they will respond. One of the only benefits for working at the hospital. When I was a child I had a cat bite that got infected as well didn't quite let it get a red streak but I went to ED within 4-5hrs of being bit I had extreme fatigue and had to stay there for about 5 days. Reason why I could relate to the cat bite but I knew for a fact that this wasn't one.  

Also seems like you know quite a bit of what your talking about which is very appreciate consulting my mother whom which is a doctor as well just loves to let her imagination go and more or less freak me out loves to blame the plants I keep and the lovely critters that I love the most for the problem. 

Updates will be coming when I know more.


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## tODDski (Jul 6, 2013)

Well guys you make some valid points about healthcare, which is why when I became financially independent - I started doing what I want with my doctorate. The bureaucracy at hospitals is a bunch of poo these days. 

To the vaccine comment - the vaccine in this case will stop further outbreaks down the road. Similar to shingles after chickenpox. 

To the epidemiology point - you don't have to be in an out broken region with Chagas to get infected. Basic epidemiology can explain this. 

To the symptoms - everyone has a different reaction to Chagas. Some die, some barely get sick, and some almost die; however, like I said before, I've seen thousands of Ghagas cases. The reason there's no puss, most likely, is because, the bacterial infection is Chagas. Modern antibiotics would have you in a different state right now for a common bacterial infection.

In the end, blood work will provide then necessary answers. From what I've seen in your pics, the info you gave, and the more recent info (Docs/PAs not knowing) it seems like Chagas. You're a healthy American living in America - far different than living in a 3rd world.

All the best guy

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## The Snark (Jul 6, 2013)

tODDski said:


> Well guys you make some valid points about healthcare, which is why when I became financially independent - I started doing what I want with my doctorate. The bureaucracy at hospitals is a bunch of poo these days.
> 
> To the vaccine comment - the vaccine in this case will stop further outbreaks down the road. Similar to shingles after chickenpox.
> 
> ...


http://newsuc.utep.edu/index.php/research-news/793-biologist-develops-chagas-disease-vaccine
I cannot verify that site as the country I am in has been blacklisted by them.

tODDski, with all due respect, your claim to be a physician places me in an uncomfortable position. As such you are an irrefutable authority which I cannot dispute from my professional positions that place me firmly under your authority. However, I would ask you to please keep in mind, the physicians authority has been sorely abused on a myriad of occasions.* 
Be all that as it may, your opinion is indeed valid and the OP should relay it to the medical authorities he is seeing to wit, OP, a physician with field experience has tentatively diagnosed Chagas and your medical providers should follow up accordingly.

*As example, a licensed physician ordering me to release his neck when I was restraining his range of motion as a human C collar. The fact that he had a forcible trauma, a fall off a bicycle, and a fractured clavicle was irrelevant to him. The fact that he had an LOC of 5 minutes and his area of expertise being an endocrinologist fortunately gave me temporary superseding authority that possibly prevented his later discovered C2fx from compounding the injury. It never ceases to amaze me how often competent licensed physicians will automatically negate the opinions of lesser mortals such as paramedics, even when a paramed sees more of certain types of injuries in a few weeks than the physician will see in a lifetime, as, say, traumatic asphyxia.

PS Since I've got the bit in my teeth now anyway... I used to teach CPR. Among my students I had transient vagrants, criminals taking the course as an alternative to fines or jail time, illiterate menial workers and you name it. Without question, the very worst students that were the most inattentive and class disruptive, generally speaking, were medical doctors. As my fire chief often said, 'If you ever have a doctor at the scene of an accident, hand them a flare and send them 100 feet down the road to direct traffic'.

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## Godly (Jul 7, 2013)

I have a follow up on monday for the infectious diease doctor who I will strongly suggest if not force them to do the test for chagas/T.Cruzi. Ive been researching T. Cruzi on CDC and boy is it making me nervous. I still have symptoms of headaches/migrains which are rare for me now I did use to have a histroy of strong migrains that would affect my schooling when I was younger and bowl movements have been green. Just started to take probiotics for the bowl movements. The red streak on my arm is still apparent and itches. The cellulitis is almost completly gone all is left are the puncture wounds/route of entry got me which are small bumbs almost like pus filled but are color toned. Visable are small puncture wound like a needle in the center of the bumbs which there are three total. 
Also note that Ive been finding more fresh webs that are horizontal in my room about a foot/half a foot off the ground. Still looking for culprit and vaccuming up any suspcious spots. My plants havent had any luck getting the buggers. 
A question I have for y'all Ive read in most of my CP(carnvious plant) books that assassin bugs are benficial and help control other pests that are common for my plants what I did not know is that they are the same as the kissing bug aka chagas carrying d-bag and could be the culprit? I havent spotted any yet but another hypothesis. Any more ideas/advice would be greatly apprieciated.


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## The Snark (Jul 7, 2013)

Godly, you could use a good wap upside da head. Please read or refresh yourself with Darwin's 'Voyage of the Beagle' wherein he first describes the triatomines which munched upon him. A while later Doc Chagas comes along and associates T Cruzi to the critter and the rest is hysteria.

Yes, kissing assassin cone-nose bugs are highly beneficial. They just pose a minor problem to homo sapiens which are not that beneficial. Unlike the spider, they are capable of scoring several hits every 24 hours which often results in the death of the victim. They also aren't particularly fussy as to what they jab. From isopods to erectus, everything is fair game.

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## Galapoheros (Jul 7, 2013)

tODDski, could you verify that you are an MD?, somehow?  It's the www after all, we are mostly strangers and I'm having doubts, it's normal today concerning the www.


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## josh_r (Jul 8, 2013)

Cone nosed assasins are fairly common in the southwest around pack rat nests. Fortunately, chagas is not common in the southwest. I never really worried about then when I lived in Arizona, but now that I am living in Peru... I worry about them. I don't want to get chagas. This thread was a good read as it got me thinking about this kinda stuff again.... Something I need to be aware of while cruising the jungle.


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## Godly (Jul 9, 2013)

Sadly went to infectious disease doc whom is an endocrinologist but had no idea again and seem to have doubts of being T.Cruzi. He made repeated suggestions of mites and or lime disease but clearly its not that but he did respect my wishes and did blood drawing. They said it takes about a week to get results because its not tested at the hospitals lab. Now all I can do is wait. Also he told me to stop taking all the medication and how the first doctor was a retard(not his words) and maybe use a steroid typical cream for the itching. More updates will come as I know them. Overall bite wounds are still large and stick out only the faint red streak left on my arm where it itches the most no other symptoms yet really. Had some stabbing chest pain days earlier when I would wake in the morning but that seems to have dissipated same with the migraines still have headaches though.

Also Ive started reading Darwin voyage of the beagle and we share a lot of the same symptoms/problems maybe Ill be able to publish work as highly regarded as his someday. I'm more fascinated with the brain and chemicals aka neuroscience/biochem.


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## Smokehound714 (Jul 9, 2013)

Something tells me you have a splinter embedded in your hand.


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## The Snark (Jul 10, 2013)

When it comes to diseases outside the box, we need to keep in mind that modern medicine knows the most common ones. Some microbiologists estimate there are probably millions or even billions of diseases and most will never be accurately identified. The theory roughly goes that at any given time every person on the planet may have several hundred active viruses.

Back on this planet, I got bit an hour ago by critter unseen. All of a sudden I had two plaques on my ankles, itching ferociously. Now the itch is all but gone. Flea? Tick? Ant? Bug? I'll probably never know. 

Anyway, the point is diagnosing some diseases, especially ones from under developed countries, can be almost impossible. To misquote Tom Stoppard, like a pair of blind men looting a bazaar for their own portraits.

Has anyone else noticed that many average MDs that get moved about an inch and a half out of their field of specialty turn into Homer Simpson?


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## Godly (Jul 10, 2013)

So this is day two Ive noticed that in bowl movements have black specks like pepper in it. I watch what I eat since I was bitten and prior because I thought I was suffering from malnutrition and I know I was not eating anything that could look like it. My BM's range from green-tan brownish almost normal color but much lighter and the black specks float. Possibility of parasite eggs? The endocrinologist suggest Lyme disease can that be one of the symptoms anyone with any info on this would be appreciated.   

Also I do not take any supplements like iron and try to balance my diet. No history of anything chronic like this at all. Also BM go through a cycle of lose to hard(usually only once every couple of days) but mostly are lose. Ive stopped taking probiotics. My BM's also have foam white froth like. Ive started to put traps on the ground in my room by taking two heavy objects and putting tape between them. Also have some pit fall traps that have an open hole but Vaseline on the edges so makes it impossible to crawl out depending on what it is. Also have found webbing in corners that disappear a day after before I can do anything they look like the stereotypical web about 1 foot in diameter.


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## The Snark (Jul 10, 2013)

A follow up pathological report/diagnosis is in order. Parasite eggs are microscopic, not visible to unaided eye.
Stereotypical web? You need to catch that critter.


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## McGuiverstein (Jul 11, 2013)

The Snark said:


> Fark that feces.


Haha I'm loving your eloquent evasion of ABs profanity restrictions


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## MrCrackerpants (Jul 13, 2013)

Chagas Disease Risk in Texas

http://www.plosntds.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pntd.0000836

Texas and Mexico: Sharing a Legacy of Poverty and
Neglected Tropical Diseases

http://www.plosntds.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pntd.0001497


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## pannaking22 (Jul 15, 2013)

MrCrackerpants said:


> Chagas Disease Risk in Texas
> 
> http://www.plosntds.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pntd.0000836
> 
> ...


Good articles MrCrackerpants. A big thing to keep in mind with the diseases in these articles though is that they will mainly affect people who don't have the same income level as someone who may be living in a more affluent area. The most prominent example can be seen with Dengue fever. Unfortunately I'm drawing a blank on the paper I read it in, but incidence of Dengue was much higher in a Mexican city less than a mile from a Texan city and evidence was found that a large factor was presence/absence of window screens.


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## MrCrackerpants (Jul 15, 2013)

pannaking22 said:


> Good articles MrCrackerpants. A big thing to keep in mind with the diseases in these articles though is that they will mainly affect people who don't have the same income level as someone who may be living in a more affluent area. The most prominent example can be seen with Dengue fever. Unfortunately I'm drawing a blank on the paper I read it in, but incidence of Dengue was much higher in a Mexican city less than a mile from a Texan city and evidence was found that a large factor was presence/absence of window screens.


Yes, good points. Thanks.


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## SquishyJumper (Jul 15, 2013)

I have Lyme disease and co-infections that come along with it. I am a Lyme advocate and have done much studying over the course of the two years I've known what my "mystery illness" was. I've been full-blown, i.e. those little suckers have taken over my body, for three years now.

What I can say is this: your pics don't look like Lyme. But they very well could be bartonella. There are more than at least two dozen strains of bartonella, and only a few of them can be tested for. I say this because testing is highly unreliable. However, most doctors wouldn't know any of the Lyme & Co. illnesses if it bit them in the backside. (Come find me on MDJunction's Lyme Disease Support Group--I'm a group leader there. It's surprising how much is NOT known in the mainstream medical community, and how so much of our illness is laughed off, even though when treated properly, people get better!)

I digress. I would strongly urge you to check out bartonella. (Cat scratch fever/disease is a strain of bartonella.)

Also, spiders, fleas, mosquitoes, etc., and of course as we all know, ticks, can carry any of these bacteria, viruses, parasites, etc.

The chest pain, the headaches, the bowel issues... they are all very common in Lyme disease, actually. The black dots... I wouldn't wonder if that was flecks of blood, actually. Parasites typically would have (depending on the type of course as there are many) a lighter appearance in stool. Some look like sesame seeds in shape and color.

And as for Lyme, there are SO many instances of atypical rash, no rash at all, etc., from the EM, or bulls-eye, that anyone could be walking around with it and not know until it's too late. I was born with it. We never knew until I had 3 girls and they all have it. It wasn't till after we all got diagnosed that my parents got tested. Yep. They have it. Which I knew they did. Just the researching my life and the different illnesses... it all made sense. Anyway...

If you have any other questions for me, I'm happy to answer. If anyone has questions, especially on a board where our beloved little friends could have a detrimental affect on our health, i.e. bites that transmit illness... :-/  please don't hesitate to find me.

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## The Snark (Jul 15, 2013)

In reply to both MrCrackerpants and SquishyJumper. Most informative. People in the modern (first) world have been lulled into an EXTREMELY false sense of security. The common local diseases have been identified and when you hurt and have a temperature you zap down to the local doc who shoves tubes in you and hands out a fistful of pills and done! All better. 

The sad fact is modern medicine is extremely limited and diseases are legion. As far as treating them goes the saying poking a turd up a steep hill with a pointed stick comes to mind. What we take for competent medical diagnosis and treatment is mostly the highly profitable ailments for the medical and pharmaceutical businesses. The rest, the vast majority of diseases, is left for the NGOs and foundations to chip away at.

What is really sad, and honestly near criminal, is the common practice of burning out the very limited disease fighting resources, over dosing on antibiotics until ultra resistant strains are created. Take erythromycin. In S. E. Asia for years no matter what the infection, you get a massive bag full of the stuff. At one time the great new wonder drug and now even the most common minor bacteria are demonstrating a high resistance to it. Modern medicine has solved nothing. They've only made things worse in the long run.

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## Ciphor (Jul 15, 2013)

The Snark said:


> In reply to both MrCrackerpants and SquishyJumper. Most informative. People in the modern (first) world have been lulled into an EXTREMELY false sense of security. The common local diseases have been identified and when you hurt and have a temperature you zap down to the local doc who shoves tubes in you and hands out a fistful of pills and done! All better.
> 
> The sad fact is modern medicine is extremely limited and diseases are legion. As far as treating them goes the saying poking a turd up a steep hill with a pointed stick comes to mind. What we take for competent medical diagnosis and treatment is mostly the highly profitable ailments for the medical and pharmaceutical businesses. The rest, the vast majority of diseases, is left for the NGOs and foundations to chip away at.
> 
> What is really sad, and honestly near criminal, is the common practice of burning out the very limited disease fighting resources, over dosing on antibiotics until ultra resistant strains are created. Take erythromycin. In S. E. Asia for years no matter what the infection, you get a massive bag full of the stuff. At one time the great new wonder drug and now even the most common minor bacteria are demonstrating a high resistance to it. Modern medicine has solved nothing. They've only made things worse in the long run.


To me the issue is not medicine, it is a fundamentally flawed belief that we can control these natural checks and balances that exist. Help slow them down, yes, we should, but action without thought is often the stem of a fruitful spiteful plant. Diseases exist for a reason and thrive because they are meant to. They must exist. I think if our aim was understanding and slowing down we would fair better then trying to abolish. Abolishing diseases has only brought rise to worse diseases and I don't think I'm the only one who feels like a massive pandemic is over-due. 

/over-simplified response

It is much more complex an issue then I just made it appear.

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## The Snark (Jul 16, 2013)

As our local mosquito expert is constantly pointing out, the flying hypodermic needles are giving inoculations, undoubtedly helping us ward off far more diseases than they carry. But one tiny example. 
To over over simplify, humans are looking extinction dead in the face from trying to control the world around them instead of learning to live harmoniously with both the 'good' and 'bad'.

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## Ciphor (Jul 16, 2013)

The Snark said:


> As our local mosquito expert is constantly pointing out, the flying hypodermic needles are giving inoculations, undoubtedly helping us ward off far more diseases than they carry. But one tiny example.
> To over over simplify, humans are looking extinction dead in the face from trying to control the world around them instead of learning to live harmoniously with both the 'good' and 'bad'.


Couldn't agree more. Yin/yang, tolerance, understanding, and forgiveness.


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## MrCrackerpants (Jul 19, 2013)

I keep checking this thread for two main reasons: to see how Godly is doing and to see if tODDski is really an MD. I hope you are better Godly. :biggrin:


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## Stan Schultz (Jul 19, 2013)

Godly said:


> ... On a side note Ive noticed my B.Emilia has been standing on her tippy toes if that means anything which is quite strange behavior. ...



I don't know anything about infectious diseases or how to treat them beyond running to the ER. But, I do know a little about tarantulas, and that cage is a bit weird. Normally we keep _B. emilia_ in an arid (i.e., desert or semi-desert) cage. There's a lot fewer "things" that can infest a dry cage than can infest a damp cage with moss and such. Also, all that fluffy plant stuff must be making it Hell for the tarantula to walk comfortably. Maybe it's on its tippy-toes because every time it tries to settle down something jabs it in the belly?

Just a thought.


*POP QUIZZES DAILY, YOUR LITTLE 8-LEGGED YODA WILL BE GIVING YOU!*


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## Godly (Jul 20, 2013)

Wow quite the information! I still havent yet recieved word of what the results were yet of the tests from the doctor reason why I havent posted since then. I have been feeling a lot better atleast a lot less fatigue almost feel like myself but every morning I have had chest pains on the right side in the middle of my sternum feels like needles jabbing also still have quite more frequent headaches that have progressively getting less frequent but always seem to peak at night luckly I usually try to nap/sleep them off. The black dots have disapeared from my stool been having more regular and normal bowel movements which has made me less worried. Still have not had any signs of the creature in my bedroom the mysterious webbings still appear at night and dispear by day. Havent seen much more horizontal webs only the webbings I have noticed were in corners behind window shades which I vaccum every time I spot them. I have aquired seven more T's, &two scorp's not that its going to help but has help my mind to be distracted. Been keeping up with a healthy diet drinking plenty of fluids and watching what types of foods I ingest. I will investigate more about bartonella. Just been pretty stressful balancing these things ontop of keeping up with normal life. Lots of bills are starting to appear. My family and animals and fourms have helped immensly just wanted to let all you guys know thank you very much wish I could show my appriecation more then just words.

My B. emilia is in a large 20g tank with fake top colored  long spangum moss which looks like real moss the rest is coconot with a raised layer of upsidedown plastic squares almost like tupperware but just the bottom while undernearth are rocks(for secure and weight) its all for superior drainage and keeping unwanted microrganisms out of the actually soil/terrian. Ive also noticed she must have been on her tippy toes because she loves to dig and has been tunneling every since she got comfortable its just rare to see her dig like that it also looked like she had something in her mouth/mouth arms like carrying dirt outside of her layer. Underneath the little wood decore is her underground layer Ill take some pictures of it I made it specifally in a corner and wrapped it with orca paper(11 mil thick) so one day I could see the tunnel system. She has matted down most of the areas where she likes to sit with her silk. She likes to haul all the dig up tunnel remains outside of her layer and throw them in a little pit I made out of plastic sqaure. I basically set the tank up for a tree frog but ended up using it for her since she will more then likely outlive it reason why there is lots to climb/hide in the tank and I wanted a more realistic type tank.
Also have gotten more orchids bromelaids and violets to add has help distract me.
More updates will come when I get them.


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