# geoffroy's cat eating



## Randolph XX() (Mar 4, 2007)

my friend Straw Melton's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VyN_vYA5uI
very gental house wild cat


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## Cirith Ungol (Mar 4, 2007)

Very beautiful cat. Interesting to see. I've often wondered how cats eat mice and I wondered if they'd spare some parts, for example skipping the head or something. Surprises me that he let the cat go and eat it on the bed (?).


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## bugmankeith (Mar 4, 2007)

Is that a "wild species" of cat as a pet or a bengal cat? (domestic)


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## Randolph XX() (Mar 4, 2007)

lol
he alos lives with other dozen of bengal in his apartment which locates in Gastown in downtown Vancouver
b4, he rent his cats an apartment on robson st.(yes, he doesn't live there, and it's in downtown), so i don't think eating on the bed is a big deal for him


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## Snake_Eyes (Mar 5, 2007)

Just to clarify a Bengal cat is a Asian leopard/domestic hybrid while the  Geoffroys cat/domestic hybrid is called a Safari cat.


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## Randolph XX() (Mar 5, 2007)

Snake_Eyes said:


> Just to clarify a Bengal cat is a Asian leopard/domestic hybrid while the  Geoffroys cat/domestic hybrid is called a Safari cat.


not quite
through the bengal projevt, they had been adding other cats into the breeding program, such as the bristol breed, which was margay X omestic, not just ALCs
and Bengal is domestic, unless it's a fillial or foundation cat


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## ember (Mar 5, 2007)

An apartment for the cats? A renter that has over 12 with him and other apartment just for cats? That, my friend, is a collector. A home owner with an appropraite set up would be one thing, but your friend is walking on a line that includes neglect and irresponsibility. I am all for the raw meat diet for cats and dogs, so do not misunderstand my intentions here... my comment is not engendered by the video, but rather the information you included in your post. Be they Bengals or pixies or green cats with purple spurs, a renter keeping more than they can care for is not a good situation, no matter how cool the cats are.


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## Randolph XX() (Mar 5, 2007)

sorry i guess this comes to his personal privacy, and none of these are our biz
but one thing i am very sure is all his cats are in good homes and are all in good health
he is a certified bengal breeder by TICA
www.tagworld.com/seespots
and his cats are on raw as well


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## bugmankeith (Mar 5, 2007)

LOL I thought Geoffroy was the owners name!  

So it's a hybrid I get it.


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## Randolph XX() (Mar 5, 2007)

it's not a hybrid
it's Leopardus geoffroyi
well, isn't there lill google box on IE or other sofware these days?
or u're just joking?


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## bugmankeith (Mar 5, 2007)

Ok, it's a wildcat you keep as a pet.


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## Randolph XX() (Mar 5, 2007)

no 
again it's not mine, and geoffroy is actually a person's name, but not the owner's name
and it is not common to keep as pets


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## EAD063 (Mar 5, 2007)

Although I don't always approve of this as a resource, this was quick.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoffroy's_Cat


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## edesign (Mar 6, 2007)

any relation to the ocecat? I've always wanted one of those since I first read about them 

Cirith...if you want details about what a cat will eat/won't eat of a mouse remind me next time we talk lol. My cats spent a lot of times outdoors when I lived in Alaska and they loved to bring us mice, shrews, baby rabbits, small ptarmigan (a type of grouse...very stupid bird), robins, and whatever other birds they could catch.


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## Cirith Ungol (Mar 6, 2007)

I'll especially wanna hear about that very stupid bird!! :}


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## pitbulllady (Mar 6, 2007)

edesign said:


> any relation to the ocecat? I've always wanted one of those since I first read about them
> 
> Cirith...if you want details about what a cat will eat/won't eat of a mouse remind me next time we talk lol. My cats spent a lot of times outdoors when I lived in Alaska and they loved to bring us mice, shrews, baby rabbits, small ptarmigan (a type of grouse...very stupid bird), robins, and whatever other birds they could catch.


The "Ocicat" is a totally domesticated breed, created by crossing various Oriental breeds, especially the Siamese and Oriental Shorthairs, with a tabby Abbysinian.  They are selectively bred for the spotted look without using any wild cat blood at all.  Same with the Egyptian Mau-no wild blood.

pitbulllady


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## Randolph XX() (Mar 6, 2007)

maybe Ed means Ocelot?
well, same family, but Ocelot is quite rare these days, and i've heard they are more shy and elusive compare to Geoffroy's cat
there are still quite a lot in south america, and are semi-feral cat live near people
sadly they are quite popular in fur trade


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## edesign (Mar 6, 2007)

no, i meant ocecat but I thought from what I had researched/read that there was more wild blood in them...hmmm. Well, now I'm definitely not going to pay an exorborant (spelling?) amount for one lol...not that I planned to, but I always find a way to justify spending too much money lol. The cats at the local shelters need homes anyway and I need to get my land whale a playmate 

an ocelot would be a cool pet to have...but knowing domesticated cats and how they own their people, I don't think that would turn out very well lol


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## P.jasonius (Mar 6, 2007)

How good of pets do these make? It seemed quite skittish in the video.


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## pitbulllady (Mar 6, 2007)

edesign said:


> no, i meant ocecat but I thought from what I had researched/read that there was more wild blood in them...hmmm. Well, now I'm definitely not going to pay an exorborant (spelling?) amount for one lol...not that I planned to, but I always find a way to justify spending too much money lol. The cats at the local shelters need homes anyway and I need to get my land whale a playmate
> 
> an ocelot would be a cool pet to have...but knowing domesticated cats and how they own their people, I don't think that would turn out very well lol



Nope-Ocicats have no wild blood whatsoever.  Here's a link describing the breed and how it came to be:

http://www.breedlist.com/ocicat-breeders.html

LOL, "land whale"-yeah, I've got one of THOSE cats!  He's a rescue, too, possibly a British Shorthair crossed with a Beluga!  I don't know where people got that idea that cats are finicky eaters, seriously!

pitbulllady


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## TNeal (Mar 6, 2007)

I found that video totally repugnant.  How can anyone allow that type of torture to go on.  Shame on you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Randolph XX() (Mar 6, 2007)

R.jasonus:
as far as i know they are not like domestic house cat alike, but rather shy and quiet, and don't really like to be touched or even picked up
it's more like having a sensitive nocturnal roommate
but geting exotic cats as house pets (note: specificly indoor)is a life time of dedication, and serious concern is needed
this one is the extra male who was rejected and attacked by his mate from a conservation program, and he is open for geoffroy to geoffroy breeding


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## P.jasonius (Mar 6, 2007)

TNeal said:


> I found that video totally repugnant.  How can anyone allow that type of torture to go on.  Shame on you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


You know, I just got done having this conversation with my wife, so I might as well share my feelings here as well.  
As she was trying to convince me of how disturbing the vid was, I said to her that it is no different from feeding snakes, monitors, or anything else, live prey.  She cleverly retorted that it wasn't necessary when there is alternatives (I'm sure she was referring to cat food).  Of course, this isn't really relevant when we're not talking about a domestic animal, such as Geoffrey's cat.  Of course, pre-killed may have been an option, but we don't know the full story.  Many snakes won't accept pre-killed (correct me if I'm wrong, I may be), and this may be the case here.  I really don't mean to be rude, really, but you _are_ on a forum that generally contains pet keepers and hobbyists that feed what they keep _live_ prey items.  
There is a scorpion vid floating around that is worse, and a centipede vid that is more graphic still.  I found it quite interesting that the cat consumed the entire mouse, fascinating.  
If you want to spread shame, go talk to the people that let their cats rome around outside, unchecked, destroying the ecosystem, and watch as their head tilts back just enough so they can look down their nose at you.


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## Arachnophilist (Mar 7, 2007)

after this thread I have considered getting into a more meat diet for my male polydactyl Maine Coon. Being that it is a wild developed breed and specialized for living in the wild I wonder how much it would improve the well being of my cat. I akready buy the best food I can but is it the best? anyways sorry for being off topic. I think that people need to realize that the mice in question are bred for this purpose and it is a natural part of the animals diet. and better controlled safe mice than destroying wild populations of anything small enough to kill. ( like my cats do) I think this is far more acceptable than anything that takes place with basically anyone who lets their cat outside. And I can say for sure my cat DOES NOT finish a mouse (or anything) and eat it.. he toys with it until it dies then he gets bored and leaves it. feeding isnt cruel at all by comparison.


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## pitbulllady (Mar 7, 2007)

P.jasonius said:


> You know, I just got done having this conversation with my wife, so I might as well share my feelings here as well.
> As she was trying to convince me of how disturbing the vid was, I said to her that it is no different from feeding snakes, monitors, or anything else, live prey.  She cleverly retorted that it wasn't necessary when there is alternatives (I'm sure she was referring to cat food).  Of course, this isn't really relevant when we're not talking about a domestic animal, such as Geoffrey's cat.  Of course, pre-killed may have been an option, but we don't know the full story.  Many snakes won't accept pre-killed (correct me if I'm wrong, I may be), and this may be the case here.  I really don't mean to be rude, really, but you _are_ on a forum that generally contains pet keepers and hobbyists that feed what they keep _live_ prey items.
> There is a scorpion vid floating around that is worse, and a centipede vid that is more graphic still.  I found it quite interesting that the cat consumed the entire mouse, fascinating.
> If you want to spread shame, go talk to the people that let their cats rome around outside, unchecked, destroying the ecosystem, and watch as their head tilts back just enough so they can look down their nose at you.



I've had many snakes, especially _Masticophis_(Coachwhips and Whipsnakes)that would only eat live prey, and despite my most dedicated efforts, my Ball Python still refuses to touch anything but a live rat pup, and this is a CB Ball, too.

I've had exotic cats, both large and small, and I can tell you that they don't do well on a commercial cat food diet at all!  It gives them horrible digestive problems that you would REALLY not want to deal with indoors, and can lead to some pretty serious metabolic issues.  Most keepers of large cats feed them a combination of fresh chicken parts with organ meat from slaughter houses(like Randolph XX said, you REALLY have to be dedicated to keep such animals, since hauling a truckload of cow guts, stomachs, spleens, etc., home each week is no fun at all, believe me), sprinkled with a vitamin suppliment.  Rodents are the natural prey of small wild cats, so a mouse would be perfectly OK provided it is a domestic mouse.  Unlike domestic cats which are fed on cat food, wild cats usually don't waste much time playing with their food, since they're hard-wired to believe that if they don't eat it, and fast, something else will come along and take it from them.  Even the sweetest-tempered, "tame" wild cat will turn into a savage if you try to take food from them, so if they get ahold of another small animal, it's pretty much theirs at that point, and really nothing you can do without risking being mauled yourself.

pitbulllady


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## Randolph XX() (Mar 7, 2007)

a lill bit more input
even domestic cats do very well on raw
studies show that cats on raw live longer than cats ob kibble on average
i also feed my bengal raw, and he will throw up when he eats dry now
plus
can u trust ur pet food manufacturors?
a lot of dry pet food are made of non-human grade meat, which means they could be sick/rejected from the food market
and also added in recycled grease from some major Corp
and some cement

so I, for one, don't really believe in big name brand cat food do any good
so raw/whole prey is my choice
just my two cents


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## eelnoob (Mar 7, 2007)

Pretty cool video, I always thought they just swallowed rodents whole(maybe nature shows just don't show how they really eat)


I don't own a cat but would like to if my GF ever allows me.


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## bugmankeith (Mar 7, 2007)

Even if I gave my cats a live mouse and they killed it, they wouldnt eat it, thus it would have been a waste so I wont do it.

They'll stick with cat food and turkey from the deli. 

Although, they do enjoy catching then eating live crickets that escape, gone in seconds literally! And crickets are good protein. 


Consider that for the geoffrey's cat, less expensive than mice.


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## P.jasonius (Mar 7, 2007)

My cats won't eat the crickets, but they're great when one gets out.  They catch them by putting their paw right on top of them, leaving it there for a few seconds, and slowly lifting their paw back up to see if the cricket is still there.  I say they because both my cats do the same thing, oddly enough.  If unobserved, they just keep 'catching' the cricket until it dies.  I see dead crickets around the house occasionally that look crushed or impaled by a claw.


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## bugmankeith (Mar 7, 2007)

Sometimes my cats will bring the crickets live to me, completely unharmed and intact, its amazing how gently they can pick things up if they want to.

But if I dont catch it then they will eat it.


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## Randolph XX() (Mar 7, 2007)

that's because domestic animals are "revert" to their infant stage
which make the domestic cats into the practicing stage of catching preys
so they just do it repeadily
wat i did for my bengal was not letting him eat for a day, and after he's tired of playing with it, he just ate it


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## bugmankeith (Mar 8, 2007)

I wouldnt go as far as NOT feeding your cat just so he eats the mouse.... thats ridiculous.  

Obviously he ate it because you didnt feed him anything, if your starving youll eat anything too. I cant believe you would do that I thought you would be smarter than that. 

Get him toys to play with and stick with the raw meat as food. Forget the mice.


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## P.jasonius (Mar 8, 2007)

So what kind of raw meat can you feed a domestic?  Forgive my laziness...


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## bugmankeith (Mar 8, 2007)

Probably a type of beef, what I mean is i'm not sure of the amount of fat in the beef he gives, there are many kinds.


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## Randolph XX() (Mar 8, 2007)

well, i guess some people really need to have some knowledge b4 giving others input

guess u don't know barn cats live on mice majorly. Do they STARVE themselves to eat the mice?Not feeding a cat for a day wouldn't cause anything if the cat is in good health. Even the Zoos have one day feeding gap for their Felines weekly....i guess u're smarter to spend sometime looking for some info to back up the words u spit out, not to mention the hybrid roach escape incident

Mine take every kind meat except lamb
rabbit, elk, pork, beef, chicken, quail, squirrel, and fish like trout and salmon(note: the whole fish gone, nothing left)
that's wat He eats so far


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## bugmankeith (Mar 8, 2007)

guess u don't know barn cats live on mice majorly. Do they STARVE themselves to eat the mice?

If they didnt eat the mice they would starve!

Not feeding a cat for a day wouldn't cause anything if the cat is in good health.

The point is you purposely starved your cat so it would eat the mouse, I dont know any cats owners who starve their cats on purpose. 

2nd, I wouldnt trust any mice as food from pet stores (at least by me) They are kept crampted and are full of diseases, if anything breed your own so you know they are healthy and wont transmit any diseases to the cats.

Are your cats even vaccinated against diseases?

Even the Zoos have one day feeding gap for their Felines weekly.

Oh so now your a qualified zookeeper?  

I guess u're smarter to spend sometime looking for some info to back up the words u spit out,

I've got people to back me up on this one! And they all own cats including bengals.


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## 8+) (Mar 8, 2007)

When I was a kid (8 or so and 30+ years ago), we had indoor/outdoor cats. Watching the video was nostalgic in a away, because it brought back a memory of our female cat eating a chipmunk.

She ate it exactly like that! I remember watching her in astonishment, as she bit it in half and wolfed the pieces down. It was just like in the video except she only chewed it in half, and it was bigger than that mouse. Some of you might be surprised how much "wild" can still be in your house cats. 

And no, my memory isn't foggy after all this time. That made quite an impression on me!


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## P.jasonius (Mar 9, 2007)

An excellent example of a domestic cat's effect on the ecosystem.


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## Randolph XX() (Mar 9, 2007)

as someone said b4, it's hard to share something when there's always someone trying to bring up something confusing

u still don't get it? they eat watever's available,birds, lizard, even chicks or insects(eg. mine eats fusca/craniifer u have occasionaly), and the whole point is rodents is one of the choices, not i force my cat to eat a mouse

and most people "purposely" feed their cats commercial food, and i can't force a cat to eat a mouse just by not feeding for one day. 

and i really don't get wat u're trying to bring up?house cats don't eat mice?or is it just yours?


so, please define "starve"? I can realize u might never heard about one day feeding gap weekly, like i've never heard of anyone letting their roaches out b4 u

plus,unlike u, i don't get rodents from pet store, but from rodent breeders who breed feeders for snakes

although i am not a zookeeper, i have friends in zoo to back me up, too
and is it that hard to be a bengal breeder? i know at least 10, and please ask ur breeder friends to back u up that their bengal won't eat any mouse by their free will.

and people owns animals do not necessarily mean that they are smart or know much about the animals, just like some some roach owners don't realize walk their roaches in their backyard can be a terrible idea

cats were origially dometicated for rodent control, or u have more back up to revise this theory, then bring it up

and if u wanna continue this meaningless debate, u might as well feed urs vegetarian cat food(http://www.vegancats.com/) or join PETA and donate ur "exotic invertebrates" to the local zoos(not the local garden!)


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## Randolph XX() (Mar 9, 2007)

P.jasonius said:


> An excellent example of a domestic cat's effect on the ecosystem.


it is true, but i think letting roaches out is not as good as well


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## P.jasonius (Mar 9, 2007)

Randolph XX() said:


> it is true, but i think letting roaches out is not as good as well


I was referring to 8+)'s post, just to avoid confusion.  
--
If I were to begin to feed my domestics a meat diet, how would I begin?  Raw from the deli at the supermarket, or is this not ok?


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## Cirith Ungol (Mar 9, 2007)

One thing I can add to this is that cats should never be put on a raw fish diet. I can not find any good link explaining it in detail but now that you know it you may be able to keep your eyes open. Raw fish contains some... thing (I seriously lack any kind of proper description here, I'm very sorry about that) which will deminish a cats reserve on vitamin A I believe (not sure again sorry.) 

Anyway, I can say from personal experience that after feeding my cat raw fish for a few weeks (with several servings a week with only little proper cat food inbetween) my cat got very ill until it had normal cat food again for a few days. Only afterwards did I learn about the fish thing.

Also, I've heard/read that egg white from eggs isn't good either, but the yolk works just fine.


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## bugmankeith (Mar 9, 2007)

And i'd like to add, are your cats vaccinated?

And if you feed them raw pork, did you know they can contract Aujesky's Disease (pseudorabies) from it?

And dude, like I said to you earlier the roach thing is getting old you sound like a baby.


I'm just concerned about your cats health thats why im posting here. 

If you dont care then you shouldnt own any cats.


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## bugmankeith (Mar 9, 2007)

Here's all the replies I got from a cat site, the topic is 3 pages long, people are VERY concerned for your cats!

#1 I'm not sure what to think. I'm not horrified that he's feeding his cats live mice, although I couldn't bring myself to do it. His Bengal might just not be a "mouser", so why make the poor thing go hungry just so he/she kills a mouse? It does seem cruel.

#2 Oh that's just cruel!

I'd love to deny him food for a day and see what he eats!


#3 Yeah I agree it's stupid to starve your cat like that. If it wants to eat the mouse, then it would. He's giving the cats plenty of opportunity to pick up parasites by feeding them live mice, so I hope he's responsible about giving them meds.

#4 Hmmm has he heard of fatty liver disease??? 

#5 There are a number of things wrong with what he's doing, imo.

I think starving his cat for a day is just plain wrong and shows ignorance about cats and their feeding habits. Domestic cats aren't like big cats in a zoo as they would, naturally, eat little and often. They'd eat 7 or 8 mice/animals a day in lots of small meals. They're solitary hunters so have evolved to eat lots of small meals. I'd be worried about fatty liver disease too, as someone else mentioned. Someone on another forum I use recently posted a link explaining how that can occur after only 2 days of not eating, so to deliberately starve a cat for 24 hours (unless on veterinary recommendation for medical reasons) is stupid, imo.

re the mice - I don't have a problem with feeding dead mice - the sort you can get at pet shops for snakes - but I don't think feeding them live mice is a good idea. Yes, catching them live is what they'd do if they were hunting their own food, but to deliberately put a live mouse in with a cat is cruel imo. I actually think it's illegal over here to feed live prey to pets.

The fact that he's depriving the bengal of food to force him to eat the mouse does imply to me that he's doing this for his own benefit and not that of his cats. Maybe he gets a kick out of watching his cats kill which is a bit worrying. Why doesn't he just feed the poor thing a raw (dead) diet if he doesn't show much interest or ability in catching and killing the mouse. If the bengal isn't a good hunter that's probably just making it all the more cruel for the mouse which may end up taking a long time to die.

#6 I don't like the idea that he starves it all day either. That's cruel in my eyes

#7 He feeds his cats raw pork? Did I misunderstand? Hasn't he ever heard of Aujesky's Disease (pseudorabies)?

#8 I've actually rescued a couple of mice from cats out here, so I'm not the person he'd want to talk to.  

Is that enough disagreements for you?


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## Cirith Ungol (Mar 9, 2007)

bugmankeith said:


> Here's all the replies I got from a cat site, the topic is 3 pages long, people are VERY concerned for your cats!


I'm not trying to take sides here, I'm merely wanting to make the observation that "from a cat site" will do just as much good as this thread right here I suspect.


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## bugmankeith (Mar 9, 2007)

I know but Randolph wanted to hear from other sources too, he didnt believe me.


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## Cirith Ungol (Mar 9, 2007)

bugmankeith said:


> I know but Randolph wanted to hear from other sources too, he didnt believe me.


The thing being though that these sources rather should have some defined authority to them*. Now anybody inkl. Ronald McDonald could have had his say and spoken from the gut. I think you'd have a much stronger case if you find anything scientific and can reference it or a widely recognized expert (weren't you on your way regarding that some time earlier?).

But who knows, maybe Randolph can convince you instead with some good old facts himself? 

*Been there all too many times myself


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## bugmankeith (Mar 9, 2007)

I'm working on gathering the links to post. 

This shouldnt even be an argument, if he doesnt want to consider facts other than the ones he says, it shows he is just being stubborn and doesnt care for the well being of his pets.

But i will find some links so mabye he will read them, and change his mind about a few things.

It may take one or two days, I want to find the best articles.


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## P.jasonius (Mar 9, 2007)

Can you define please "cat site", because I'm thinking of a site that may be a bit skewed in opinion, if we're talking 'cat people'.  I would like some primary sources of information, or at least a review article with some sources cited.  Quotes from a 'cat site' aren't going to change my opinion one way or the other.  Like Cirith ungol, I'm on the fence on this issue, but I'm not giving anyone any credibility for quoting a cat forum, sorry.


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## bugmankeith (Mar 9, 2007)

Right, thats why I just said im getting links of articles. Not from anyone on that site, by researching.

The site is a site about cats, self explanitory. The message board has topics on everything on cats, and people from around the world go on it. It's one of the recomended sites in cat fancy magazine, which in itself is an excellent rated magazine as far as accurate information. So it's one of the more reliable places to go for information. 

But dont worry forget about the quotes i'll find other sources of information.


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## Randolph XX() (Mar 10, 2007)

P.jasonius:
meat from the market is fine, but i suggest u to freeze them for couple days and then de-froze them by putting them in the lower level of ur fridge
especially pork and fish, and u can add an egg with the meat+organs, too
but opposite from some keen raw meat feeding believers, i think cat grass is also crucial since they provide fibers, and cats do chew on some grass in the wild

and we do not need to respond to irresponsible owners' two cents that  qoute from irresponsible "source".

back to very basic understanding of carnivoras, they don't get preys EVERY DAY, and not to mention that the success rate of feline ambush is not even close to 50%

and Keith, u can stop bugging me for my Email, I am really not interest in u
and unlike wat u said, releasing roaches to the wild is not getting old, cuz it is always not right to release foreign fauna into ur local wild


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## bugmankeith (Mar 10, 2007)

"and we do not need to respond to irresponsible owners' two cents that qoute from irresponsible "source"."

Boy are you are messing with the wrong person on this one!

Cockroaches have nothing to with cats or this topic your just plain weird!

I insist on still posting I cant wait till I post all my "responsible" proof for you! I'm going to vets for information, and other people who actually know what they are talking about, and you will be proven incorrect.

Some people do care about how they care for their pets, you obviously dont and that makes me mad! I still remember your stupid comment about the cat being killed by a cobra, dont think for a second I forgot about that.


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## ragnew (Mar 10, 2007)

Pretty cool video, puts the "wild" side a bit more into perspective. I don't know, I look at it like this, a wild cats going to eat just about anything it can get it's claws on (rodents, reptiles, and so on), so I wouldn't be to surprised to see a cat getting live mice as food items.

I think the biggest thing I'd be worried about would be parasites like Cryptosporidia (and I think it may have been coccidia as well) being contracted through these feedings. But if the mice are coming from a "reputable" rodent and snake breeder then I'm sure he / she knows about the possiblities of these parasites all too well, and has taken measures into making sure they are not present.

Just my two pennies.


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## bugmankeith (Mar 10, 2007)

Well i've done some research and came up with alot, I hope your ready to start reading! 

Anyone else with cats is welcomed to read if you are interested.

First lets start with your raw meat diet. There are pros and cons to feeding cats raw meat. There's too much for me to talk about with this topic, so i'll let you read and decide on this one for yourself as people I know do feed raw meat to their cats. 

You didnt mention if any of the other food (other than the meat and mice were raw?)

I did find this fact out though, most cats are generally resistant to the bacteria commonly found in raw meat. The cat’s digestive tract is very acidic, very short and processes food quickly. The safest raw foods are beef, chicken, turkey and lamb.

http://www.listnow.com/helpingpaws/articles/article_125.html

You failed to mention if your cats get any fiber. I understand the mice have fiber in their stomach contents, but some extra fiber wont hurt.

Why fiber and other vitamins and minerals are essential.
http://www.netpets.com/cats/reference/food/catnutrition2.html

Next, I would like address the issue I see with pork being used as part of the diet. Raw pork is one of the worst things to give them, again you never mentioned if it's raw or not.

Raw pork may contain the parasite Toxoplasma Gondii which can cause toxoplasmosis (a dangerous infectious disease) in cats. People can then get toxoplasmosis from their cats, when cleaning up the litter pan.  

(i'm sure you wouldnt want that!)

This site also tells what foods NEVER to give a cat.

http://tiger.towson.edu/users/knakam1/foods_that_cats_must_not_eat.htm

A bunch of info on Toxoplasmosis in cats and people.

http://www.fabcats.org/toxoplasmosis.html

A varied diet for a cat is always good, but some of the things you mentioned (like lizards and insects) can actually harbor parasites, which can infect your cats internally. Parasites and bacteria can also come from raw meat.

Good ways to prevent parasites:

Precautions to avoid parasite contraction:

    * Never feed pork
    * If you consider them to be a risk, avoid game meats
    * To destroy parasites keep your cat's food frozen below -150C for at least 20 days
    * If your cat is free run and eats wild rodents, have your veterinarian examine a stool sample for intestinal parasites every 6 months. Use de-worming medication only when parasites are present, as regular preventative de-worming can be harmful.
    * Clean litter boxes promply and thoroughly

And a site giving all the gory details about the parasites they could be at risk for.

http://www.felinefuture.com/nutrition/bpo_ch2a.php

Next I want to talk about the issue of you not feeding your cat for a day so it will eat the mouse. I think you do this because you enjoy seeing the cat eat live mice. If it wont eat the mouse you could have fed it something else, it wont die if it doesnt eat the mouse.

To be fair, no, it wont die if it doesnt eat for a day, BUT, a cat that doesnt eat will be weaker, if you dont eat for a day you feel tired, hungry, and you try to conserve your energy, right. A pet shouldnt have to do that, it's "domestic" not wild, it doesnt need to hunt to live. If you do this often, your cat may loose weight.



You mentioned the zoo told you that cats dont eat everyday, yes BIG cats dont have to eat everyday, but small cat species do eat everyday most of the time, how is that possible you ask?

Cats are predators, and in the wild they prey on whatever is available. This may include birds, small animals, such as mice, rabbits, and opossums, grasshoppers and other insects, fish and, on occasion, reptiles. Because cats can make do with a variety of food sources, they can always find a new food supply if the old is suddenly no longer available. So they almost never go a day without eating, there's too many food sources around.

Now in the wild a lion or cheetah have it more difficult being they need to take down large prey, and cant hunt right after. They eat a big amount at once, then go a few days before getting the next big meal. Even available in surplus, A bird or mice clearly wont be enough nourishment for a big cat. Cats in zoos dont hunt or use alot of energy, so they can be fine skipping a feeding.

Your Geoffrey's cat is a small cat species, so in the wild it would have more prey to find and hunt.

Article that talks about cat hunting behavior. (top of page)

http://www.petplace.com/cats/why-are-cats-finicky-eaters/page1.aspx

The last and one of the most important things to discuss, do your cats get vaccinated? You dont know how many diseases and problems they can have if they are not vaccinated, especially since you are feeding them all sorts of animals. Again, you havent said if they are vaccinated or not so i can only guess if they are or not.

A list of what shots a cat needs, and how often for an exam. (would probably be different for your geoffrey's cat, but since it shares the house with the bengal, they both need exams.

http://www.thecatconnection.com/care/vaccination.htm

I then researched on the geoffrey's cat. Saw a few things that made me angry after researching: So your keeping a threatened species huh? Are you involved with captive breeding of the species?

Hunted extensively throughout its range for its fur, geoffrey's cat is one of the most hunted of wild cat species. However, geoffrey's cat is still the most highly populated of all South American wild cats and it is possibly due to this large population that as many as 150,000 pelts are traded annually. 

Geoffrey's cat is now listed in CITES Appendix 2 as threatened.

They are hunted for their skins, and due to heavy harvesting of this species for their fur, they are endangered.

At least 25 adult Geoffroy’s cats are killed to make one fur coat.


Bunch of sites on Geoffrey's cat.

http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/agarman/geoffrey.htm
http://www.lioncrusher.com/animal.asp?animal=51
http://members.aol.com/cattrust/geoffroy.htm

And a site on Bengals.

Did you know they like water and love to swim?

http://www.bengalsofshabeel.com/about.htm


So as you can see I do research and have plenty of links for "responsible" information.

I hope you will read everything I posted. I can do no more for you.


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## Randolph XX() (Mar 12, 2007)

Re-Aligned said:


> Pretty cool video, puts the "wild" side a bit more into perspective. I don't know, I look at it like this, a wild cats going to eat just about anything it can get it's claws on (rodents, reptiles, and so on), so I wouldn't be to surprised to see a cat getting live mice as food items.
> 
> I think the biggest thing I'd be worried about would be parasites like Cryptosporidia (and I think it may have been coccidia as well) being contracted through these feedings. But if the mice are coming from a "reputable" rodent and snake breeder then I'm sure he / she knows about the possiblities of these parasites all too well, and has taken measures into making sure they are not present.
> 
> Just my two pennies.


ya, i've been talking about this with some rodent breeder quite a while ago
those are nasty parasites which mostly happened in outdoor breeding range
but if the stocks are well kept lines from indoor, it's okay


bugmankeith said:


> LOL I thought Geoffroy was the owners name!
> 
> So it's a hybrid I get it.


u don't really need to list the sites to let me know wat the Geoffroy's cat is when u don't really know wat is it at the first place, lol
this is a better source here, http://www.exoticcatz.com/
and is this ur very own irony to bring up "coffee table" information, or academic journals/articles are simply unaccessable?DAmn, i think i should mail JSTOR to let them know this

roaches can glide and escape if u let them out, just make sure u know that
i am just a mere human, i guess it's not my job to make someone who don't choose to choose
guess wat?
i guess u're one of the flatearth society members
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/


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