# Iridopelma seladonium & Pterinopelma sazimai



## Storm76 (Sep 27, 2012)

Does anyone in the US own either of these species? If so, where did you acquire them from and how do you keep them? (Pictures would be awesome!)

I've asked around a lot and I. seladonium is sought after like crazy over here, but alas, even M. Scheller, who owned a breeding pair, couldn't keep them alive. They're believed to have died out in the hobby over here in Europe from what I can tell. I believe I heard that these aren't exported either, so I'm curious if anyone in the US breeds them even? (Here's a pic of those: CLICK)


As for the Pterinopelma sazimai, this one looks quite close to certain Brachy's if you ask me, except for the really blue legs. But since the picture was apparently taken by Caroline S. Fukushima, I don't believe it's just an old species newly described / reclassified. 
Here's the article about it: CLICK

So does anyone keep either?


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## Philth (Sep 27, 2012)

If you Germans don't have them, chances are we don't have them here. 

Later, Tom

Reactions: Like 3


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## Kazaam (Sep 27, 2012)

There is only one I. seladonium left, that one is in Germany and is not for sale...


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## Storm76 (Sep 27, 2012)

Kazaam said:


> There is only one I. seladonium left, that one is in Germany and is not for sale...


Who's the owner (don't want a name, just if it's a collector or importer/seller)? Since Michael's died off sadly it's not him I recon?


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## Kazaam (Sep 27, 2012)

Storm76 said:


> Who's the owner (collector or seller)? Since Michael's died off sadly it's not him I recon?


I'm not sure if it was him, if he had 2 of them I don't think so, unless he acquired another one recently (as in like less than a month ago)


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## Storm76 (Sep 27, 2012)

Kazaam said:


> I'm not sure if it was him, if he had 2 of them I don't think so, unless he acquired another one recently (as in like less than a month ago)


I talked to H. Manstein just a couple days ago and he mentioned Michael HAD a breeding pair that sadly died off...hm. Guess I'll have to ask Michael himself then.


Alright, so what about the Pterinopelma sazimai? Any info if someone keeps those anywhere in the hobby?


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## Kazaam (Sep 27, 2012)

Storm76 said:


> Alright, so what about the Pterinopelma sazimai? Any info if someone keeps those anywhere in the hobby?


I don't know anything about those, I just randomly found a page about some guy keeping a single iridopelma seladonium in germany.


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## Storm76 (Sep 27, 2012)

Philth said:


> If you Germans don't have them, chances are we don't have them here.
> 
> Later, Tom


Not entirely true, Tom. Certain Aphonopelmas for example are interesting enough kinda more rare for example. Still looking for a moorae...



Kazaam said:


> I don't know anything about those, I just randomly found a page about some guy keeping a single iridopelma seladonium in germany.


Interesting, but I'm guessing it was Michaels you talk about => CLICK

Well, let's see if someone else can contribute some information...thanks!

Reactions: Like 1


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## zonbonzovi (Sep 27, 2012)

Good luck getting them in any legal fashion and if not legal...don't forget to clench your butt cheeks up real tight after you're discovered by customs on a departing flight from Rio.:laugh:

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2


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## Storm76 (Sep 27, 2012)

zonbonzovi said:


> Good luck getting them in any legal fashion and if not legal...don't forget to clench your butt cheeks up real tight after you're discovered by customs on a departing flight from Rio.:laugh:


No spider is worth getting into problems with the law, IMO. But I see what you're talking about. The last info I received was that Dr.Sylvia Lucas (former leader of the Instituto Butantan) told someone they had some, but they're also KEEPING them and don't export - sadly 

EDIT:
I just stumbled upon a breeder offering the 1. European captive-bred batch of the Pterinopelma sazimai...obviously being available at Marbach! Gonna contact that guy tomorrow and see if I can snatch up a couple... - CLICK  -his female


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## BiGpDaMoNsTa (Sep 27, 2012)

I have received news that Pterinopelma sazimai will soon be available in Canada;P.... i'm sure they won't be for very long though


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## Storm76 (Sep 27, 2012)

Well, the one thing I'm wondering about now is who smuggled the breeding pairs? Because if I'm not mistaken, Brazil doesn't export its spiders? That seller offering them, also offers O. diamantinensis and P. metallica (the latter for 25-30 EUR per animal) - kinda weird, but we'll see.

EDIT: I decided against buying from that person. Reasons are quite some bad reviews about transactions which made it look kinda fishy. Let's hope they'll get established in the hobby in the future. That would be very nice.


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## Philth (Sep 27, 2012)

Storm76 said:


> Not entirely true, Tom. Certain Aphonopelmas for example are interesting enough kinda more rare for example. Still looking for a moorae...



Not entirely true, but true 99.9% of the time.  Of course some _Aphonopelma_ will be easier for us to obtain than you guys over seas,  but that is very different when we are talking about getting spiders out of Brazil. I don't believe Germans have a Lacy Act like we have here that prevents us from bringing in smuggled animals from prohibited country's.  

Someone once told me a old joke , I forgot how it goes but it was something like...

"*A new species is discovered in Brazil on a Monday, on Tuesday two Germans buy plane tickets to Brazil*" lol

As well _A. moorae_ was prob a poor example as I've never seen them offered for sale in the US.  With the exception of maybe one or two people that got their hands on a couple over the last 10-15 years I wouldn't say they are available to us. I'm unsure if any of them were confirmed to be the real _A. moorae_ anyways.

It wont be long before the U.S. has _Pterinopelma sazimai_, as you now see they are available by you and soon in Canada.  But we will have to wait for you guys to captive breed them over there, so we can legally import them here. Its a silly loop hole, but that's how it works. 

Later, Tom


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## Storm76 (Sep 27, 2012)

Philth said:


> It wont be long before the U.S. has _Pterinopelma sazimai_, as you now see they are available by you and soon in Canada.  But we will have to wait for you guys to captive breed them over there, so we can legally import them here. Its a silly loop hole, but that's how it works.
> 
> Later, Tom


You know, the only thing annoying me honestly, is the fact that all this smuggling obviously goes unnoticed, unpunished really. Spider's aren't "popular" and we hobbyists are considered "weird" most of the time in the least, but seriously? I'm just waiting for yet another newspaper story "Spiders discovered in luggage - German tried to smuggle" yaddayadda you know what I mean. It doesn't shine a good light on our hobby over here either, which is why I tend to stick to honest breeders where I know what I get, even if that means that I pay a little more...


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## Philth (Sep 27, 2012)

Storm76 said:


> You know, the only thing annoying me honestly, is the fact that all this smuggling obviously goes unnoticed, unpunished really. Spider's aren't "popular" and we hobbyists are considered "weird" most of the time in the least, but seriously? I'm just waiting for yet another newspaper story "Spiders discovered in luggage - German tried to smuggle" yaddayadda you know what I mean. It doesn't shine a good light on our hobby over here either, which is why I tend to stick to honest breeders where I know what I get, even if that means that I pay a little more...


If you don't want to support smuggling wouldn't a good way to start is by not buying the 2 spiders you mentioned in this thread lol.  You prob have a many spiders in your collection that smugglers profited from.  I don't want to turn your thread into a smuggling debate, but I see no harm in taking a few to breed for the pet trade.  I agree nobody wants to see suitcases full of animals being removed from the environment though. There will always be a demand for colorful new species that will tempt smugglers.  

Later, Tom

Reactions: Like 4


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## MaskFac3 (Sep 28, 2012)

Tbh though it would be ideal if there are enough left that some really proficient breeders could be aloud pairs so they could be captive bred. Then in turn the sling could be sent to other experience people and eventually normal hobbyists could have them - it would take away the need to smuggle them.


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## Storm76 (Sep 28, 2012)

Philth said:


> If you don't want to support smuggling wouldn't a good way to start is by not buying the 2 spiders you mentioned in this thread lol.  You prob have a many spiders in your collection that smugglers profited from.  I don't want to turn your thread into a smuggling debate, but I see no harm in taking a few to breed for the pet trade.  I agree nobody wants to see suitcases full of animals being removed from the environment though. There will always be a demand for colorful new species that will tempt smugglers.
> 
> Later, Tom


Which is EXACTLY why I decided against purchasing them. (Especially from that "breeder" in question after I did some research...) - anways: You're right, Tom. I wanted to see if there is somewhere a CB bred population already established, even if it would be small. But that will take a few years before that happens and I can wait - this hobby teaches it to you quite well actually


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## advan (Sep 28, 2012)

Storm76 said:


> I wanted to see if there is somewhere a CB bred population already established, even if it would be small. But that will take a few years before that happens and I can wait - this hobby teaches it to you quite well actually


Why does it matter if you get them now or in a few generations? They still will be descendants of smuggled material. Unless of course you wait until Brazil opens it's borders. Have fun with that! I wouldn't doubt that a few spiders in your collection now have come from a sketchy background somewhere down the line. 

I understand you don't want to support it but it's almost unavoidable if your want some of the rarer species. The breeding stock had to come from somewhere at some point. It would be nice if we had more people like Steve Nunn that legally export CB spiders for the hobby to enjoy.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Storm76 (Sep 28, 2012)

advan said:


> Why does it matter if you get them now or in a few generations? They still will be descendants of smuggled material. Unless of course you wait until Brazil opens it's borders. Have fun with that! I wouldn't doubt that a few spiders in your collection now have come from a sketchy background somewhere down the line.
> 
> I understand you want don't want to support it but it's almost unavoidable if your want some of the rarer species. The breeding stock had to come from somewhere at some point. It would be nice if we had more people like Steve Nunn that legally export CB spiders for the hobby to enjoy.


I know, Chad. But I have my reasons for having decided against getting them from the person that offers them currently. There's quite some evidence on the net regarding that person and I'm certainly NOT supporting such a person. I know it's twisted reality in a way and you're probably right regarding the fact some spiders people keep are likely the descendants from formerly WC spiders - but that's basically true for ALL T's in the hobby at some point.


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## kongekilde (Jan 26, 2013)

just to come with some late input 
I have the Pterinopelma sazimai, but of the iridopelma gruppe I have oly found 2 up for sale, I so I have the iridopelma hirsutum whith is the one and same as iridopelma sp. recife. then I found the iridopelma zorodes yesterday and ar whaiting for the mess in hamm so I can go get the ones I reserved 
this it hobby breed,but at some point if u buy spider or any other animal from brazil ar it have not ben dreed in the hobby,u will for 100% sure support smuggling. as its against the law to export any animals out of brlzil :-/ and even the ones we have in the hobby have at some point ben smuggling out of the contry  but now they ar in the hobby,and im not a shame to be a owner off some of them 
i can say,that they come at a werry werry hige price,but they a out ther to buy ;-)


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## Merfolk (Jan 27, 2013)

Brazil logic : Forbidding the export of rare species, but allowing their habitat to be logged off : (
Beside, there is even worse : France forbids possession of any species present on its oversea territories, even if CB.

Reactions: Like 2


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## jthorntonwillis (Oct 17, 2013)

There are at least 3 sellers of P.Sazimai as of today in the USA All advertise on AB


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## Kazaam (Oct 17, 2013)

jthorntonwillis said:


> There are at least 3 sellers of P.Sazimai as of today in the USA All advertise on AB


The chance of those being fakes is pretty high as well.


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## Philth (Oct 17, 2013)

Kazaam said:


> The chance of those being fakes is pretty high as well.


What makes you say that ?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Poec54 (Oct 17, 2013)

Kazaam said:


> The chance of those being fakes is pretty high as well.


Are you suggesting they'll ship you rubber spiders?

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Truffs1178 (Oct 17, 2013)

Poec54 said:


> Are you suggesting they'll ship you rubber spiders?


Lol, rubber spiders.


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## Kazaam (Oct 17, 2013)

Philth said:


> What makes you say that ?


When new species are discovered people usually take advantage of it and sell something that looks like it for the jackpot.


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## paassatt (Oct 17, 2013)

Kazaam said:


> When new species are discovered people usually take advantage of it and sell something that looks like it for the jackpot.


That's why it always pays to only buy from people who have good reviews, or importers/breeders with an established presence in the hobby.


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## Kazaam (Oct 17, 2013)

paassatt said:


> That's why it always pays to only buy from people who have good reviews, or importers/breeders with an established presence in the hobby.


He didn't mention whether these are trusted sellers or not, just that they advertise on here.

If these are random people, which I assume they are there's a high chance.


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## ccamaleon3000 (Oct 17, 2013)

Kazaam said:


> When new species are discovered people usually take advantage of it and sell something that looks like it for the jackpot.


Thats true like for example it was 9 years ago avicularia amazonica and avicularia sp peru purple. exporters change the name 2 years latter from sp peru purple to amazonica just to put a high price and amazonica to mananus. and we see alot tarantulas from europe as slings but we cant say nothing because we have to wait 4 years to find out that those slings were common and mislabel. other example its the p. smithy the year that few pairs were breeding i have offers of this ones from every where and they were totally different  from the true p. smithy when this people send me pics of the mom and dad. that's why i did not own this pokies  it happen to me so yea its possible that people sell you some that its not


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## Philth (Oct 17, 2013)

As far as I know, P. sazimai spiderlings don't exhibit any features that you can positively ID them by , but I can still say with pretty good confidence that the ones that are going around right now are the real deal.

Later, Tom

Reactions: Like 1


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