# Latrodectus Specimen list incl. their Synonyms



## Splintercell (Sep 12, 2006)

Hello @all,

I would like to share this list with all of ya.
It is a list regarding (almost) all known species of the Latrodectus Genus.
Further, it contains the names of the persons who(and when) orininaly
discovered them and approx. the location where they are (commonly) found.
(New populations ,unwillingly imported by cargo-companies, 
such as the L. Hasselti population in Limburg,Belgium are not mentionned!) 
I hope someone can use this  ;-)
(as studymaterial, or so...?) 
I got the info from the internet.
It toke me some time to make, filter, alter and edit this list  ;-)
enjoy!

Kind regards, Tom.



*…GENUS LATRODECTUS…*
*Latrodectus   Specimen   List  
including  their  Synonyms*
*by Tom Simons*

*Gen. Latrodectus (Walckenaer, 1805)* 

*Latrodectus Antheratus (Badcock, 1932)..........Paraguay, Argentina*
_L. carteri
L. cretaceous						  
L. curacaviensis
L. antheratus _ 
*Latrodectus Apicalis (Butler, 1877)..........Galapagos Islands*
_L. apicalis _ 
*Latrodectus Atritus (Urquhart, 1890)..........New Zealand*
_L. katipo 
L. atritus
L. hasseltii atritus 					
L. mactans 						
L. atritus _ 
*Latrodectus Bishopi (Kaston, 1938)..........USA*
_L. mactans bishopi				
L. curacaviensis 			                                                   
L. bishopi _ 
*Latrodectus Cinctus (Blackwall, 1865)..........Cape Verde Islands, Africa, Kuwait*
_L. stuhlmanni 					
L. mactans 					
L. cinctus                                                                                           _ 
*Latrodectus Corallinus (Abalos, 1980)..........Argentina*
_L. corallinus_ 
*Latrodectus Curacaviensis (Müller, 1776)..........Lesser Antilles, South America *
_L. geographicus 				
L. foliatus 			
L. mactans 					
L. specimen					
L. curcaniensis_ 
*Latrodectus Dahli (Levi, 1959)..........Middle East to Central Asia*
_L. tadzhicus 					
L. dahli_ 
*Latrodectus Diaguita (Carcavallo, 1960)..........Argentina*
_L. mactans 					
L. diaguita_ 
*Latrodectus Elegans (Thorell, 1898)..........China, Myanmar, Japan*
_L. hasselti elegans				
L. mactans 					
L. elegans_ 
*Latrodectus Erythromelas (Schmidt & Klaas, 1991)..........Sri Lanka*
_L. erythromelas_ 
*Latrodectus Geometricus (C. L. Koch, 1841)..........Cosmopolitan*
_L. concinnus 					
L. geometricus modestus 			
L. geometricus subalbicans 			
L. geometricus obscuratus 			
L. geometricus_ 
*Latrodectus Hasselti (Thorell, 1870)..........Southeast Asia to Australia, New Zealand*
_L. scelio 					
L. scelio indicus 				
L. indicus 					
L. hasselti indicus 					                          
L. ancorifer 					
L. hasselti aruensis 				
L. hasselti ancorifer 				
L. cinctus 					
L. mactans hasselti			
L. hasselti_ 
*Latrodectus Hesperus (Chamberlin & Ivie, 1935)..........North America, Israel*
_L. mactans hesperus				
L. mactans texanus 				
L. mactans 					
L. curacaviensis 					                        
L. variolus 					
L. hesperus_ 
*Latrodectus Hystrix (Simon, 1890)..........Yemen, Socotra*
_L. hystrix _ 
*Latrodectus Indistinctus (F.O. P.-Cambridge, 1904)..........Namibia, South Africa * 
_L. indistinctus_ 
*Latrodectus Karrooensis (Smithers, 1944)..........South Africa*
_L. indistinctus karrooensis 			
L. mactans 					                 
L. karrooensis_ 
*Latrodectus Katipo (Powell, 1870)..........New Zealand* 
_L. mactans 					
L. kapito_ 
*Latrodectus Lilianae (Melic, 2000)..........Spain*
_L. lilianae_ 
*Latrodectus Mactans (Fabricius, 1775)..........Probably North America only *
_L. schuchii 					
L. formidabilis 				
L. perfidus 					
L. intersector 					
L. thoracius 					
L. malmignatus tropica 			
L. insularis 					
L. insularis lunulifer 				
L. sagittifer 					
L. hahli 					
L. luzonicus 					
L. albomaculatus 				
L. agoyangyang 					                          
L. mactans albomaculatus 			
L. mactans mexicanus 			
L. mactans mactans 
L. mactans_
*Latrodectus Menavodi (Vinson, 1863)..........Madagascar, Comoro Islands *
_L. menavodi _ 
*Latrodectus Mirabilis (Holmberg, 1876)..........Argentina*
_L. curacaviensis 					
L. mirabilis_ 
*Latrodectus Obscurior (Dahl, 1902)..........Cape Verde Islands, Madagascar*
_L. obscurior_
*Latrodectus Pallidus (O. P.-Cambridge, 1872)...Cape Verde Islands, Libya to Russia, Iran*
_L. pallidus pavlovskii 				
L. pallidus_ 
*Latrodectus Quartus (Abalos, 1980)..........Argentina*
_L. quartus _ 
*Latrodectus Renivulvatus (Dahl, 1902)..........Africa, Saudi Arabia, Yemen *
_L. incertus 					
L. mactans 					
L. renivulvatus_ 
*Latrodectus Revivensis (Shulov, 1948)..........Israel *
_L. mactans 							
L. revivensis_ 
*Latrodectus Rhodesiensis (Mackay, 1972)..........Southern Africa *
_L. rhodesiensis_ 
*Latrodectus Tredecimguttatus (Rossi, 1790)..........Mediterranean to China *
_L. 13decimguttatus                             
L. argus 					
L. erebus 					
L. hispidus 					
L. 5-guttatus 
L. quinguttatus 					
L. malmignatus 				
L. martius 					
L. oculatus 					
L. venator 					
L. 13-guttatus 					
L. conglobatus 	
L. lugubris 				                                     
L. tredecimguttatus lugubris 				
L. mactans 					
L. mactans tredecimguttatus			
L. tredecimguttatus_ 
*Latrodectus Variegatus (Nicolet, 1849)..........Chile, Argentina *
_L. curacaviensis 				
L. variegatus_ 
*Latrodectus Variolus (Walckenaer, 1837)..........USA, Canada *
_L. curacaviensis 				
L. variolus_ 
*PS: Latrodectus spec. ex Laos will be added in the future.*
_tom.simons79@telenet.be_


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## tom (Sep 17, 2006)

*latrodectus notes.*

I am possibly recieving Latrodectus from Corsica and Laos respectively in the next two weeks.All are live specimens to be sent for eventual DNA work,But that is after they are reared to maturity  and photographed. I prefer to use older spiders for DNA and keep younger specimens for live collection.One male was recieved dead and was placed in the permanent collection at  American Museum here in New York City.


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## Splintercell (Sep 19, 2006)

Splintercell said:


> *Latrodectus Elegans (Thorell, 1898)..........China, Myanmar, Japan*
> _L. hasselti elegans
> L. mactans
> L. elegans_



*Update!!!:*

*Latrodectus Elegans (Thorell, 1898)..........China, Myanmar, Japan*
_L. hasselti elegans				
L. mactans
*L. ex Laos * 
L. elegans_

Greetz@all
_tom.simons79@telenet.be_


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## psionix (Sep 19, 2006)

_technically speaking,_ this list is no good because the species isn't supposed to be be capitalized.

for instance:
_Latrodectus *e*legans _
NOT _Latrodectus *E*legans _

all this (and more) is available on Platnick's list too, BTW.


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## Splintercell (Sep 19, 2006)

psionix said:


> _technically speaking,_ this list is no good because the species isn't supposed to be be capitalized.
> 
> for instance:
> _Latrodectus *e*legans _
> ...



Hey, thanks for the nice reply???

I dont understand it however!
Since I am on the board, maybee 25 different people
asked me what kind of Latro spec. live in europe.
They also asked me what regions they come from.
Someone even said: L. Pallidus,... what is that???
I just thought I filter the list.(to help)
I only left the names, the synonyms 
and the persons who discovered them.
It took me about 5 hours to filter the list and putting them online
in a good form.
Now you tell me that the spec. shouldt be written with a capital???
Is this a joke? It must be wright.
Why do I spend my time putting this online???
I just thought it might be usefull.


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## Splintercell (Sep 19, 2006)

*…GENUS LATRODECTUS…*
*Latrodectus   Specimen   List  
including  their  Synonyms*
*by Tom Simons*

*Gen. Latrodectus (Walckenaer, 1805)* 

*Latrodectus antheratus (Badcock, 1932)..........Paraguay, Argentina*
_L. carteri
L. cretaceous						  
L. curacaviensis
L. antheratus _ 
*Latrodectus apicalis (Butler, 1877)..........Galapagos Islands*
_L. apicalis _ 
*Latrodectus atritus (Urquhart, 1890)..........New Zealand*
_L. katipo 
L. atritus
L. hasseltii atritus 					
L. mactans 						
L. atritus _ 
*Latrodectus bishopi (Kaston, 1938)..........USA*
_L. mactans bishopi				
L. curacaviensis 			                                                   
L. bishopi _ 
*Latrodectus cinctus (Blackwall, 1865)..........Cape Verde Islands, Africa, Kuwait*
_L. stuhlmanni 					
L. mactans 					
L. cinctus                                                                                           _ 
*Latrodectus corallinus (Abalos, 1980)..........Argentina*
_L. corallinus_ 
*Latrodectus curacaviensis (Müller, 1776)..........Lesser Antilles, South America *
_L. geographicus 				
L. foliatus 			
L. mactans 					
L. specimen					
L. curcaniensis_ 
*Latrodectus dahli (Levi, 1959)..........Middle East to Central Asia*
_L. tadzhicus 					
L. dahli_ 
*Latrodectus diaguita (Carcavallo, 1960)..........Argentina*
_L. mactans 					
L. diaguita_ 
*Latrodectus elegans (Thorell, 1898)..........China, Myanmar, Japan*
_L. hasselti elegans				
L. mactans 
L. ex Laos					
L. elegans_ 
*Latrodectus erythromelas (Schmidt & Klaas, 1991)..........Sri Lanka*
_L. erythromelas_ 
*Latrodectus geometricus (C. L. Koch, 1841)..........Cosmopolitan*
_L. concinnus 					
L. geometricus modestus 			
L. geometricus subalbicans 			
L. geometricus obscuratus 			
L. geometricus_ 
*Latrodectus hasselti (Thorell, 1870)..........Southeast Asia to Australia, New Zealand*
_L. scelio 					
L. scelio indicus 				
L. indicus 					
L. hasselti indicus 					                          
L. ancorifer 					
L. hasselti aruensis 				
L. hasselti ancorifer 				
L. cinctus 					
L. mactans hasselti			
L. hasselti_ 
*Latrodectus hesperus (Chamberlin & Ivie, 1935)..........North America, Israel*
_L. mactans hesperus				
L. mactans texanus 				
L. mactans 					
L. curacaviensis 					                        
L. variolus 					
L. hesperus_ 
*Latrodectus hystrix (Simon, 1890)..........Yemen, Socotra*
_L. hystrix _ 
*Latrodectus indistinctus (F.O. P.-Cambridge, 1904)..........Namibia, South Africa * 
_L. indistinctus_ 
*Latrodectus karrooensis (Smithers, 1944)..........South Africa*
_L. indistinctus karrooensis 			
L. mactans 					                 
L. karrooensis_ 
*Latrodectus katipo (Powell, 1870)..........New Zealand* 
_L. mactans 					
L. kapito_ 
*Latrodectus lilianae (Melic, 2000)..........Spain*
_L. lilianae_ 
*Latrodectus mactans (Fabricius, 1775)..........Probably North America only *
_L. schuchii 					
L. formidabilis 				
L. perfidus 					
L. intersector 					
L. thoracius 					
L. malmignatus tropica 			
L. insularis 					
L. insularis lunulifer 				
L. sagittifer 					
L. hahli 					
L. luzonicus 					
L. albomaculatus 				
L. agoyangyang 					                          
L. mactans albomaculatus 			
L. mactans mexicanus 			
L. mactans mactans 
L. mactans_
*Latrodectus menavodi (Vinson, 1863)..........Madagascar, Comoro Islands *
_L. menavodi _ 
*Latrodectus mirabilis (Holmberg, 1876)..........Argentina*
_L. curacaviensis 					
L. mirabilis_ 
*Latrodectus obscurior (Dahl, 1902)..........Cape Verde Islands, Madagascar*
_L. obscurior_
*Latrodectus pallidus (O. P.-Cambridge, 1872)...Cape Verde Islands, Libya to Russia, Iran*
_L. pallidus pavlovskii 				
L. pallidus_ 
*Latrodectus quartus (Abalos, 1980)..........Argentina*
_L. quartus _ 
*Latrodectus renivulvatus (Dahl, 1902)..........Africa, Saudi Arabia, Yemen *
_L. incertus 					
L. mactans 					
L. renivulvatus_ 
*Latrodectus revivensis (Shulov, 1948)..........Israel *
_L. mactans 							
L. revivensis_ 
*Latrodectus rhodesiensis (Mackay, 1972)..........Southern Africa *
_L. rhodesiensis_ 
*Latrodectus tredecimguttatus (Rossi, 1790)..........Mediterranean to China *
_L. 13decimguttatus                             
L. argus 					
L. erebus 					
L. hispidus 					
L. 5-guttatus 
L. quinguttatus 					
L. malmignatus 				
L. martius 					
L. oculatus 					
L. venator 					
L. 13-guttatus 					
L. conglobatus 	
L. lugubris 				                                     
L. tredecimguttatus lugubris 				
L. mactans 					
L. mactans tredecimguttatus			
L. tredecimguttatus_ 
*Latrodectus variegatus (Nicolet, 1849)..........Chile, Argentina *
_L. curacaviensis 				
L. variegatus_ 
*Latrodectus variolus (Walckenaer, 1837)..........USA, Canada *
_L. curacaviensis 				
L. variolus_ 

Me hope very much, list techn. okay now sir.:worship: 


By the way, just to let you know, I am a German.
In Germany, all Nouns are written with a capital.
Therfore, technicaly, it is pretty usefull here. :wall: 

_tom.simons79@telenet.be_


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## metallica (Sep 19, 2006)

Splintercell said:


> Me hope very much, list techn. okay now sir.:worship:


technically speaken the Latrodectus sp ex Laos has no place in the list. all the other names are from (re)descriptions. whereas the L. sp ex Laos is just a hobby name.


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## psionix (Sep 19, 2006)

i guess the language barrier makes it hard for me to understand your last post...  I'm assuming that you took offense to what i said, but I'm not sure why.  

I was merely pointing out that _technically speaking_ your entire list was incorrect.  Sorry but wrong is wrong, in any language.  not that it really matters so much.  I, and I think most other people, tend to not get scientific info from someone with unknown credentials that has 30 posts on an internet forum.    no hard feelings.





BTW, i'm also not sure why it took you "5 hours" to "filter" (read:  plagiarize) Platnick's list.  looks to me like you just copied and pasted what he has published and then capitalized a bunch of stuff *that shouldn't be capitalized*, then omitted some things that _you_ didn't feel were important.  :? 

cheers!


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## psionix (Sep 19, 2006)

metallica said:


> technically speaken the Latrodectus sp ex Laos has no place in the list. all the other names are from (re)descriptions. whereas the L. sp ex Laos is just a hobby name.


...not to mention the fact that it's a broad jump to just assume that the "sp. ex Laos" is _Latrodectus elegans_


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## Splintercell (Sep 19, 2006)

metallica said:


> technically speaken the Latrodectus sp ex Laos has no place in the list. all the other names are from (re)descriptions. whereas the L. sp ex Laos is just a hobby name.


:clap: 

I dont think you read the thread that good.
It says: List of names and synonyms!!!
By whom the synonyms are used isnt specified.
Since every body on the board uses the name L. ex Laos,
it is a synonym to me and belongs in the list.
(that is my opinion)
Since it is from Laos, it is a L. elegans (without capital) specimen.


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## metallica (Sep 19, 2006)

Splintercell said:


> Since every body on the board uses the name L. ex Laos,


i better go and rename some spiders then. most people on the boards speak of Brachypelma klassi and Brachypelma behemi. are these valid names now also then?



> Since it is from Laos, it is a L. elegans


i fail to see the logic in this.....:?


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## Splintercell (Sep 20, 2006)

*List.*

What is this with you people?
I dont understand this at all.
Psionix writes in the tread:
Technically speaking, the list is invalid  
*(because I used capitals to indicate the famely:wall: )*

What the F... is this.
How old are you?
Such a remarque must come from a child.
No capitals used so therefore tech. unusefulle,... hello:?
I speak 4 langauges and write and read them aswell.
Why dont you try to reply my treads in Nederlands, or in Deutsch.
Francais, peut-etre??? Just trying to point out that this one little silly remarque hits me like a bom.  

This comment hit me wright in my face.
I got about 50 private messages of people finding the list superb!

Concerning the L. spec. ex Laos,... you are right.
I dont know for sure that the Laos spec. is an Elegans,...
but since Elegans is the specimen that lives in the region, 
I assume it is an elegans too.
Now, you are wright about this.
It is not good to assume that, without knowing for sure,
but... the capitals in the list (wich it al started with)
really,... get a life.

And hey, maybee I reacted a bit hard,
but you could have sent me a privat message,
telling me that the spec. shouldnt be written with a capital.


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## Splintercell (Sep 20, 2006)

*specimen*



metallica said:


> i better go and rename some spiders then. most people on the boards speak of Brachypelma klassi and Brachypelma behemi. are these valid names now also then?
> 
> 
> 
> i fail to see the logic in this.....:?




Yah yah yah,  you are wright.
One little mistake in a list of about 100 names
and.. whooooo... list is not good.

About the specimen you are wright though, I dont know if it's a elegans spec.
but hey, it all started with a remarque over some stupid capitals.
Can you imagin that?

Greeetz,  Tom.


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## Splintercell (Sep 20, 2006)

*Laos specimen*

@psionix,
@metallica,

Well, okay, since I want to do this wright I wanted to ask you guys where you would catalogue this Latrodectus ex Laos specimen.
Psionix says: It is a name used by hobbyists...
Okay, I agree, but it still refers to an actual spider.
I keep Latrodectus spec. ex Laos myself, so hobbyist name or not, I would really like to put it in the list someware.
Should I make a special referring to spec. ex Laos???
Should I call it, (at this time) an apart new specimen,...
or should I refer to the laos simple as: still to be discribed???

What do you think@psionix@metallica???

PS: I really didnt know that specimen arnt written with a capital.
And therefore I didnt think that the list is unusefull now.
But hey, wright is wright!


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## Splintercell (Sep 20, 2006)

metallica said:


> i better go and rename some spiders then. most people on the boards speak of Brachypelma klassi and Brachypelma behemi. are these valid names now also then?
> 
> 
> 
> i fail to see the logic in this.....:?



Well, I understand what you are saying,...
But how many names are there on this board to discribe
the Latrodectus spec. ex Laos ???  Only ONE ==>  L. spec. ex Laos.
So, since, in this case, there is only one common name to discribe this spec.
and not 2 or several more such as in the case of Brachipelma klassi vs. behemi, I think it is logic that I call the specimen that way.
And that I use this widely spread hobbyist name to indicate the specimen till further resurch has been done.

Greetz,  Tom.


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## metallica (Sep 20, 2006)

Splintercell said:


> I hope someone can use this  ;-)
> (as studymaterial, or so...?)






Splintercell said:


> Since every body on the board uses the name L. ex Laos,
> it is a synonym to me and belongs in the list.
> (that is my opinion)


this is what wonders me: you present a list for people to study and use, then when they do, you state that it is just your opinion. for study material i would like to see a technically correct list (and thus correct use of names.)

as for the Latrodectus sp. ex Laos, i would keep it just that. put it at the bottom of the list. untill someone looked at type material/ finds a unique character in the species description, no one can tell for sure what species it is. also tell the source of your information. (it is not enough to state you used the internet for this)

good luck with your project
Eddy


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## Randolph XX() (Sep 20, 2006)

They are also ditubuted in Taiwan ,too
but the local spider guide mis id them as L.hasselti, maybe it's because they used to be considered as a sub sp of hasselti


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## JPD (Sep 21, 2006)

> Since it is from Laos, it is a L. elegans (without capital) specimen.


First I would like to say that I appreciate you putting the list up for everyone to view.  
I do agree with the others that it may have been best to simply let everyone know the true source from which your list was derived.  Nothing wrong with that and people would likely be more receptive.
I didn't take the time to compare the information, however, if you took 5 hours to work on what you posted, (regardless of what it was), then I applaud your efforts.
Regarding L.elegans.....The comment that you made above would be comparable to me saying that because a car is from America, it must be a Ford.  There are many other species of vehicles in the US besides Ford, as I suspect there are off Latrodectus species in Laos.


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## Steven (Sep 21, 2006)

Splintercell said:


> What the F... is this.


Tom,
speaking/reading/writing 4 languages is quite normal in Belgium,... isn't it  
with 3 official languages in our tiny country.  

I can see all your intentions are good,... but you seem to be irritated quite fast or having another bad day.

on topic:
'm with metallica's replies,...
if you want to put up study material you should _*first *_cite the source,... and* then* state your own opions on this matter,...
not stating your own opion as studymaterial for others.

on the use of common-names,...
i've also heard the common name: 'spec. Hellfire'
(refering to the markings) on this beautifull widow  

have you allready contacted Boris Stiffler (for example) about the Latrodectus from Laos ? he wrote an article last year in a german magazine on Latrodectus spec.

Draco#24:
48 Die Gattung Latrodectus - nicht nur Schwarze Wittwen
Boris F. Striffler
you can order it here:
http://www.ms-verlag.de/index.php?90&backPID=90&tt_products=1315

Take care
Cheers
Steven


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## Splintercell (Sep 22, 2006)

metallica said:


> this is what wonders me: you present a list for people to study and use, then when they do, you state that it is just your opinion. for study material i would like to see a technically correct list (and thus correct use of names.)
> 
> Eddy


Hi,

I havent thought about it this way.
But now, since you say it,
I see that this is completely true.
You are absolutely wright with this statement.
I am 27 now, and how I evaluate this situation, it is me who has to grow up... (quickley :8o ) You see, I had al lot of these discussions in chatrooms, not about spiders just normal chatrooms.There, always someone has something to say about what you should do and what you shouldn't. 
And, If you come with something creative,.. well you know what I mean...
I hate when people do that.
However, this is an arachnoboard, with people who realy care for spiders.
I understand I has to be wright! 
And for sure if I want someone to take my notes serious 
and use it as study material.
So, I ow you guys an appology.
The both of you (also@PSIONIX)

Kind regards,  Tom.


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## Splintercell (Sep 22, 2006)

*Latrodecti*

Well guys,

obviousley I can see that,in the contrarey to much other Boards and chatrooms, you guys mean it realy good.
Thanks for all this info and you all are wright.
I will learn from this, be sure.
I'll put sources etc.. on, next time  ;-)




Steven said:


> Tom,
> speaking/reading/writing 4 languages is quite normal in Belgium,... isn't it
> with 3 official languages in our tiny country.


_I was born in Germany, after 12 Years I went to a belgian (dutsh) boardingschool in Limburg (I lived in Köln till I was 22) and at the age of 14, my father remarried a french woman with 2 kids she had alreaddy. 
Thats why   ;-)_



Steven said:


> I can see all your intentions are good,... but you seem to be irritated quite fast or having another bad day.


_Yes, you are wright... 
I was a Xerox Salesagent for 3 years, till 2 moths ago.
Than I had a "serious" car accident.
I was fine, but since a serious "wip-lach"... my neck wasn't. 
I was sick for a week. Just a week!
Then I told my boss that I would have to go
to the hospital to make a CT scan.
My boss just sayd: Okay, but if you are going to bee out 
a whole week again you can better come to work tomorrow, even if your neck hurts, that way you can order all the machines you need and nobody has to wait on the order. I went to work next day, obvious to do him a favor, but after 2 hours of work he saied that I had to come over to his office and he fired me, just like that. 
3 Years of work and only 9 days sick. 

Sorry, I am a bit tence at the moment. _



Steven said:


> on topic:
> 'm with metallica's replies,...
> if you want to put up study material you should _*first *_cite the source,... and* then* state your own opions on this matter,...
> not stating your own opion as studymaterial for others.


_Absolutely wright._



Steven said:


> on the use of common-names,...
> i've also heard the common name: 'spec. Hellfire'
> (refering to the markings) on this beautifull widow


_

Didn't know that. Good to know  ;-)
Beautifull name by the way.



Steven said:



			have you allready contacted Boris Stiffler (for example) about the Latrodectus from Laos ? he wrote an article last year in a german magazine on Latrodectus spec.

Draco#24:
48 Die Gattung Latrodectus - nicht nur Schwarze Wittwen
Boris F. Striffler
you can order it here:
http://www.ms-verlag.de/index.php?90&backPID=90&tt_products=1315

Click to expand...

Thanks for the info



Steven said:



			Take care
Cheers
Steven
		
Click to expand...


Kind regards,  Tom._


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## psionix (Sep 22, 2006)

no harm done.  i think we all can appreciate the effort you put forth.


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## Splintercell (Sep 22, 2006)

*latro*



psionix said:


> no harm done.  i think we all can appreciate the effort you put forth.


:8o 

Thanks mate.

Greetz,  Tom.


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## Splintercell (Sep 26, 2006)

*Latro spec. list*

Hello@all,

I was looking a bit around on the net (google)
and found the following page:

http://zipcodezoo.com/Animals/L/Latrodectus_dahli.asp

Here, you can also find a list of the Latrodectus genus.
However, 2 problems:

1) Variolus isn't listed at all.
2) There are about 7 specimen listed
    wich are, as far as I know, synonyms:
    L. ancorifer, L. Hahli, L. Insularis, L. Insularis lunulifer
    L. luzonicus, L. sagittifer and L. stuhlmanni

By the way, I also have a Problem with L. mactans mactans.

I noted, just now, that it isn't listed in my Genus list at all.
I must have forgot this.

What do you all think of this.
If you click for example on L. ancorifer;
You can see that they specify it as a species.(not synonym)

Kind regards,  Tom.


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## JPD (Sep 26, 2006)

The taxonomy of the Latrodectus genus is currently being examined and a more solid and well defined list will result from this in the near future.
Currently, there are 31 species.  This list is considered, as Jeremy Miller puts it, "State of the Art" for the work that has been done to date.
He also mentions the fact that this list does not include species yet to be described nor does it take into account a few species that are proving problematic.
L.variolus is obviously a fairly well described species and I wonder about L.hahli, is it perhaps L.dahli?


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## Splintercell (Sep 26, 2006)

JPD said:


> L.variolus is obviously a fairly well described species and I wonder about L.hahli, is it perhaps L.dahli?


Hi,

Well first I thought so too, but on the page
they realy discribe it as a species. 
Note that L. dahli is also listed seperatly on this homepage. 

http://zipcodezoo.com/Animals/L/Latrodectus_hahli.asp
http://zipcodezoo.com/Animals/L/Latrodectus_dahli.asp

By the way:

http://zipcodezoo.com/Animals/L/Latrodectus_ancorifer.asp

Here you can find the whole list, under the 2e chapter:
*Similar Species / Other members of Genus latrodectus.*
You can click on each name in the list!

Greetz,  Tom.


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## cacoseraph (May 25, 2007)

*Platnick redux*

i snorted up platnick's Latrodectus section to make google image searches for all of them for a natural history list i belong to. here is my post from that list:

i made a quick little webpage to show all the different Latrodectus ("widow" species)

http://tinyurl.com/yv6bmr
http://www.geocities.com/blight_child/spiders/latro.html

check out the google image searches or additional link for all the species marked by a "2" in the "looker" column


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## Bastian Drolshagen (May 26, 2007)

hi tom,
I really wonder why you think the species from Laos is L. elegans. Have you checked the first description? In case of a first description that doesn´t use characters, that are up to date (spermathecae, micro-structure hairs...) have you checked on the holotype?

I don´t think this:


> Well first I thought so too, but on the page they realy discribe it as a species.


is right. If this is only published on a homepage it´s definetly not a valid description of a species. If it was published properly it would have been considered in WSC!

As Steven wrote: I see your intentions are good, but copying Platnick is not really much work, is it? I don´t think you read all the relevant papers...


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## buthus (May 26, 2007)

Improver said:


> hi tom,
> I really wonder why you think the species from Laos is L. elegans. Have you checked the first description? In case of a first description that doesn´t use characters, that are up to date (spermathecae, micro-structure hairs...) have you checked on the holotype?
> 
> I don´t think this:
> ...


Its info ...info that many here most likely have not seen.  Use it as you will.

I gotta figure that sp.Laos first found its way into the hobby via Germany ...just an "educated guess".  ??
I bet you're sellin' a bunch.  Have you or any of your German buds even attempted to have it properly IDd?  Or does that take too much time out of your mass production schedule?  I have no problem donated a few of mine... who should I contact that would be up to the task?


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## Bastian Drolshagen (May 26, 2007)

hi,
when they were first introduced I got 10 of them I managed to raise. I mated my only female and gave away (for free!) the eggsacs to people I knew they would breed them.
I know at least one person who´s trying to ID them properly. But an ID without a revision (or any other key) takes time.
I don´t know who you know from Germany, but most of the people I know do NOT work on mass production.


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## buthus (May 26, 2007)

Improver said:


> hi,
> when they were first introduced I got 10 of them I managed to raise. I mated my only female and gave away (for free!) the eggsacs to people I knew they would breed them.
> I know at least one person who´s trying to ID them properly. But an ID without a revision (or any other key) takes time.
> I don´t know who you know from Germany, but most of the people I know do NOT work on mass production.


Ok..cool.  Sorry...just being a little rough about it.  
Hopefully a proper ID will eventually be made.  Have any of you over there gotten your hands on L.elegans?  I know of one person that claims he was receiving some, but I have not kept in touch.


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## Bastian Drolshagen (May 26, 2007)

hi,
no problem  You might be right and some of the people over here could really be working on mass production... but even worse (at least my opinion) are the dealers over here importing thousands of spiders. 
I haven´t heard of real L. elegans over here.


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## buthus (May 27, 2007)

> but even worse (at least my opinion) are the dealers over here importing thousands of spiders.


I think most of us in the hobby that are aware of the consequences of "harvesting" and importing so many species would definitely agree.  
Though, new WC blood should be brought in occasionally to strengthen CB lines.


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## Bastian Drolshagen (May 27, 2007)

hi,


buthus said:


> Though, new WC blood should be brought in occasionally to strengthen CB lines.


here I agree with you. But importing thousands of G. rosea is just too much.
When I bred G. rosea a year ago I had to pursuade people to take some for free.
I recently got a stocklist from a dealer from Chile offering G. rosea and G. porteri at the following prices:

0 – 250 Grammostola rosea ( red ) = 3.4 $
251 – 500 Grammostola rosea ( red ) = 3.2 $
501 – 1000 Grammostola rosea ( red ) = 2.7 $
+ 1000 Grammostola rosea ( red ) = 2.5 $

0 – 250 Grammostola porteri = 3.0 $
251 – 500 Grammostola porteri  = 2.8 $
501 – 1000 Grammostola porteri  = 2.3 $
+ 1000 Grammostola porteri = 1.9 $

Sry for OT...


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## Great Basin Ben (Jan 4, 2011)

AMAZING comprehensive list!!! MANY MANY Thanks for taking the time to compile all of this!!!


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