# G.rosea import ban?



## yodaxtreme545 (May 5, 2015)

Have any of you heard anything new about an import ban on G.rosea?

Reactions: Like 1


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## DVirginiana (May 5, 2015)

No though I don't really keep up with it.  As much of a pain as it can be I think I might be in favor of legislation that encouraged captive breeding.  It can't be good to harvest them like they do.  It'd jack prices up, but I'd also be willing to pay more for a spider I knew didn't have wild parasites and wasn't hurting the ecology of the natural habitat.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Poec54 (May 5, 2015)

Should have happened 20 years ago.  The poor things live in a harsh region and grow slow; how are they supposed to rebound after tens of thousands have been removed from the wild?

Reactions: Like 13 | Agree 1


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## Storm76 (May 5, 2015)

Poec54 said:


> Should have happened 20 years ago.  The poor things live in a harsh region and grow slow; how are they supposed to rebound after tens of thousands have been removed from the wild?


Fully agree! And it would finally encourage people to breed these in captivity.

Reactions: Like 2


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## DVirginiana (May 5, 2015)

Who knows, in ten years I might actually have a reason to breed mine!


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## PRE66 6TART (May 5, 2015)

Wait. They don't do this already(breed them)? Is it really easier/cheaper to go out and catch them in the wild and ship them around the world? Don't you basically have an infinite supply if you breed them?


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## LythSalicaria (May 5, 2015)

PRE66 6TART said:


> Wait. They don't do this already(breed them)? Is it really easier/cheaper to go out and catch them in the wild and ship them around the world? Don't you basically have an infinite supply if you breed them?


It's because of how slowly they grow. A lot of new keepers have no interest in slings because they want a big, hairy spider to show off right away; others simply don't have the patience to raise a G. rosea sling to adulthood because it takes so long, so the supply for adult specimens is much higher. (One could argue that people like this have no business being in the hobby, but that's another topic all-together)

This leads into a big problem dealers have to face - in an ideal world, they would raise up captive bred specimens and sell those, but I would imagine that it's just not feasible for many of them due to the amount of time they would have to dedicate to doing that for slow-growing species. Kinda one of those Rock-and-a-Hard-Place situations. 

G. rosea probably won't be a common starter T any more if this legislation passes. It will be interesting to see what replaces it.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Biollantefan54 (May 5, 2015)

Most people don't consider G. rosea/porteri a good starter tarantula as it is. G. pulchripes, Phrixotrichus, Brachypelma, and Euathlus will probably be better starters in the future (as most would recommend now)


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## BFE Pets (May 5, 2015)

haha I came over to ask the very same question. it's blowing up facebook. I am actually happy about it and would love to see G rosea not imported any more. i've paired them several times and still have 50 or so left from the last one. This species has been over collected in my opinion. There are plenty in captivity to start a good breeding program.


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## cold blood (May 5, 2015)

:clap: :clap: :clap:

I can't believe it took this long. :wall:


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## Biollantefan54 (May 5, 2015)

This has apparently been going on for years though...still not sure if they actually enforce it. And yeah, ALL over my FB too.

Reactions: Like 1


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## truecreature (May 5, 2015)

This is one import ban I'd be in favor of. With how painfully slowly these guys grow, they need all the help they can get in the wild. I'm amazed they even manage to survive as a species as it is.


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## DVirginiana (May 6, 2015)

I guess I'm just weird but I like slow-growing species.  Gives you more time with them! (Of course I have a couple animals that should outlive me so I realize not everyone feels that way)  I'm probably getting my first foray into scorpions as a scorpling for that very reason.  IMO people that can't handle waiting for a T to mature (especially when it's good for the wild ecosystems!) are probably in it for the wrong reasons.  It's about the anticipation of having something really beautiful in your care for the next twenty years, not bragging rights.

Plus, my G. rosea is absolutely psychotic.  I'm the kind of idiot who will grab a venomous snake to get a better look, so it doesn't bother me (ecologist problems...) but they really aren't the best beginner species anyway...


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## awiec (May 6, 2015)

I'm all for a ban, we are saturated with G.rosea so a diverse and healthy captive population can be easily maintained. Also who knows? Maybe the CB rosea will be more beginner friendly as they are already used to our cycles here instead of the wild. Of course stimulus is probably needed to get them into breeding mode like any other species but for those who want a pet, having a spider already in sync with our seasons is better.


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## FireSpider (May 6, 2015)

All I can find relating to this is a for sale ad on Imgur where the seller claims G. Rosea has had an export ban imposed. He cites no source on this, but uses it as a reason you should buy his tarantulas now, before they're all gone. After that the rumor spread to Reddit. The guy who made the initial post doesn't appear to be a well-known breeder and there's no citations anywhere. Considering the lack of sources, I wouldn't believe the rumor unless a better source comes out to confirm it.

Anyway, I'd love to see more captive bred G Rosea because they're my favorite T (for all the reasons other people get annoyed by them--I *like* their unpredictable weirdness and how slow they grow). But we probably won't have more until the ban discussed here actually happens.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Formerphobe (May 6, 2015)

What I heard was that the country of Chile has banned export of ALL tarantulas, not just G rosea. The ban may include all inverts. I don't know if all the particulars are available yet.


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## Poec54 (May 6, 2015)

PRE66 6TART said:


> Is it really easier/cheaper to go out and catch them in the wild and ship them around the world


Right, and wholesale they're only a couple dollars.  It's much easier for pet stores to sell adult spiders, so they carry roseas as nothing's cheaper for them.  It has nothing to do with them being suitable for beginners.  There are better choices for beginners, but they're only available in bulk as CBB slings and cost more.


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## HungryGhost (May 6, 2015)

Excellent news if it's true! Nothing personal, but man will it ever cut down on posts by new members saying "Help! My rose hair won't eat." 

Next I'd like to see an import ban on wild caught avics that end up in deplorable conditions at chain pet stores.


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## ratluvr76 (May 6, 2015)

I think this is an excellent development... IF its true. I'm of the opinion that whenever possible we as a hobby should support captive bred populations over w/c. W/c will always have a place in the hobby, especially to establish cb populations of new species but once established in captivity, the harvesting of wild populations should almost completely cease in this species too. I'd also like it if lps were forced to make wiser decisions of what they will carry and making it more expensive for them will either make it so they don't carry them at all or make it cost effective to care for them properly.


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## vespers (May 6, 2015)

HungryGhost said:


> Nothing personal, but man will it ever cut down on posts by new members saying "Help! My rose hair won't eat."


Conversely, perhaps it would cause some more experienced keepers to treat G. rosea as "seriously" as they do other tarantula species. Since it will then have more "monetary value" and not be so easy to come by in most pet stores. Much like what has happened with emperor scorpions/P. imperator...

Reactions: Like 3


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## Poec54 (May 6, 2015)

ratluvr76 said:


> I think this is an excellent development... IF its true. I'm of the opinion that whenever possible we as a hobby should support captive bred populations over w/c. W/c will always have a place in the hobby, especially to establish cb populations of new species but once established in captivity, the harvesting of wild populations should almost completely cease in this species too. I'd also like it if lps were forced to make wiser decisions of what they will carry and making it more expensive for them will either make it so they don't carry them at all or make it cost effective to care for them properly.



If pet stores don't have cheap w/c adults anymore (which they've had for the last 50 years), then they'd have to rely on selling slings, which most of the public won't have any interest in, because they're small, delicate, and expensive.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Tangle (May 6, 2015)

I personally feel this would be a really good thing for the rosies. I bought my first one through an online vendor. She's an adult 5 inch female. I have no idea how old she is. She was about $27. For a confirmed female. She's honestly one of my more beautiful spiders and yet she's considered a throw a way spider.  

I'm all for this ban because my mind can't comprehend how we can have so many dying in our pet stores and sustain them in nature.


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## ironmonkey78 (May 7, 2015)

ratluvr76 said:


> I think this is an excellent development... IF its true. I'm of the opinion that whenever possible we as a hobby should support captive bred populations over w/c. W/c will always have a place in the hobby, especially to establish cb populations of new species but once established in captivity, the harvesting of wild populations should almost completely cease in this species too. I'd also like it if lps were forced to make wiser decisions of what they will carry and making it more expensive for them will either make it so they don't carry them at all or make it cost effective to care for them properly.


I agree that CB over WC is generally better when purchasing a Tarantula.  one of the things you have to consider though is that a pet store first and foremost is a business.  Most of the petstores go for WC spiders because they are much cheaper.  if they are no longer available and its easier to make their money on another animal they will very likely stop selling spiders all together to pursue another animal with a better profit margin.  as much as everyone bashes petstores on here they do have their place.  Think of how stifled the hobby would be if petstores stopped selling tarantulas.  Like it or not the spider in a pet store is often times someones introduction into the hobby.


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## MrsHaas (May 16, 2015)

*Rose hair ban*

Does anyone know for sure if they officially banned rose hair imports from chile? This could just be a rumor but I have heard it from a few fellow hobbyists.  Just want to clear the air. I can't find anything about it online...


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## Sentinel (May 16, 2015)

MrsHaas said:


> Does anyone know for sure if they officially banned rose hair imports from chile? This could just be a rumor but I have heard it from a few fellow hobbyists.  Just want to clear the air. I can't find anything about it online...


Rose hairs? The more or less one tarantula everyone has owned (except me... yet)? What justification would they have for banning it? It's not endangered.


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## Biollantefan54 (May 16, 2015)

Sentinel said:


> Rose hairs? The more or less one tarantula everyone has owned (except me... yet)? What justification would they have for banning it? It's not endangered.


I really hope you are kidding. If they aren't endangered...I would be surprised. Slow growing, extremely harsh environment, tons being taken out of the wild..those aren't good odds.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Sentinel (May 17, 2015)

Biollantefan54 said:


> I really hope you are kidding. If they aren't endangered...I would be surprised. Slow growing, extremely harsh environment, tons being taken out of the wild..those aren't good odds.


Let's put it this way. It breeds readily, does it not? Even if it were endangered, it isn't like they're dying out anytime soon. If anything they'd make a comeback. And no, they are not endangered. Not on IUCN Red List. Taking big quantities from the wild doesn't mean endangered always.


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## cold blood (May 17, 2015)

:wall:

:bomb:

Reactions: Like 1


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## Biollantefan54 (May 17, 2015)

Well...obviously taking a ton of an animal out of the wild that lives in that type of environment and grows as slow as it does isn't a good thing. I could definitely see them being endangered soon if they keep being taken from the wild. I am shocked they aren't though.


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## Sentinel (May 17, 2015)

cold blood said:


> :wall:
> 
> :bomb:


You know, the rumor mill makes crazy things. As it stands, that's all this is right now.

---------- Post added 05-17-2015 at 12:20 AM ----------




Biollantefan54 said:


> Well...obviously taking a ton of an animal out of the wild that lives in that type of environment and grows as slow as it does isn't a good thing. I could definitely see them being endangered soon if they keep being taken from the wild. I am shocked they aren't though.


That's like saying if we take tortoises out of the wild, they stop growing and having tortoise sex. Just because they're slow growing doesn't mean they don't have the capabilities to survive and escape capture or predation. As a matter of fact, there are numerous animals that have been saved by domestication or captive breeding programs, so this is actually saving them if anything. Spiders can have hundreds of babies per sack. Times that by the amount of people breeding these things, and all you'd need is a giant metaphorical Fedex box to their native habitats, and boom, repopulation.


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## MrsHaas (May 17, 2015)

Just want to lay this possible fugazi to rest 



--J.Haas

Reactions: Like 1


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## Biollantefan54 (May 17, 2015)

So we are saving G. rosea/porteri by taking them out of the wild.

I am pretty sure we have a different way of thinking.


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## Sentinel (May 17, 2015)

Biollantefan54 said:


> So we are saving G. rosea/porteri by taking them out of the wild.
> 
> I am pretty sure we have a different way of thinking.


Hey. Just because we're beating the conservationist societies to the punch, doesn't mean the punch isn't happening. If I hit a deer with my car, and it has a broken leg, will it die in the wild? Most likely. Now, if I take this deer and care for it, and THEN release it, possibly into an area with multiple female deer, is it not helping deer in general?

If the animal is already, as you put it, "threatened", it is threatened by SOME humans. The ones cutting down the forests, cutting and burning, encroachment, etc, etc, etc. You want us to do nothing?

Obviously we can't stop "progress". But we CAN save the spider by giving it a shot in the arm so to speak, getting it to breed, then releasing the progeny back into the wild.


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## cold blood (May 17, 2015)

One of the slowest growing species has been being plucked from the wild and supplied to the pet trade for decades at alarming rates that far exceed their reproductive capabilities (this is, or at least should be, common knowledge within the hobby).   This has kept them cheap, combined with slow growth and a reputation for being difficult to breed has led to little efforts to maintain captive breeding stock, which SHOULD be the end goal for every species in the hobby.  


see---CITES

Protecting Brachypelma  from being taken advantage of for many years:wink:

Reactions: Like 2


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## Sentinel (May 17, 2015)

cold blood said:


> One of the slowest growing species has been being plucked from the wild and supplied to the pet trade for decades at alarming rates that far exceed their reproductive capabilities (this is, or at least should be, common knowledge within the hobby).   This has kept them cheap, combined with slow growth and a reputation for being difficult to breed has led to little efforts to maintain captive breeding stock, which SHOULD be the end goal for every species in the hobby.
> 
> 
> see---CITES
> ...


By this logic, the species is doomed if you leave it to its own devices and it's our fault. So. Give us a chance to fix it. Let the breeders give it their all, and see if humans can't make some kind of positive impact. Better to try and fail, than to say "Uh oh, it's gonna die, better leave it to die cause it's just going to happen regardless".


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## cold blood (May 17, 2015)

Suddenly relevant again with a new "twin" thread.:wondering:

Search engine anyone?


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## cold blood (May 17, 2015)

I just brought up a  very recent thread of the same topic....check it out.



Breeders here and everywhere have PLENTY with which to work with and have for decades....there's no reason to take them from the wild and there hasn't been for a while.

Your logic is illogical.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sentinel (May 17, 2015)

cold blood said:


> I just brought up a  very recent thread of the same topic....check it out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's perfectly logical. I wasn't advocating taking anymore from the wild. You admit that the species is threatened, even if not formally recognized as such, by human activity. Erego, we are the threat.

However, not all humans are actively threatening this spider. If the spider were to be left alone, as you advocate, you imply it will surely progress into a death spiral. So. Breed the animal in captivity. Release the progeny into the wild. Rinse and repeat. Factor for inbreeding. What part of this is illogical?

The animal is in trouble. The MAIN trouble, the "clear and present" danger is not taking them out of the wild, but taking the spider out of the world in general. We threatened it, therefore we either let it pass on, or we try to breed it in sufficient quantity and diversity to where it can regain population density that is sustainable in the wild.

I'm sorry, but at this point, we cannot stop human "progress" which consists of habitat destruction, we need resources, as does the spider. If your assertion is correct, leaving the spider alone leads to human "progress" stamping it into extinction. With the help of humanity, ironically, the spider can survive. Otherwise, if your assertion of its fragility is correct, then it will perish. So the choice is up to us: leave spider to die, or breed it and try.


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## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (May 17, 2015)

What I found out earlier today from one pet store owner in the State of Utah yes they have been banned and prices when up on rose hairs. 



Jose


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## MrsHaas (May 17, 2015)

jose said:


> What I found out earlier today from one pet store owner in the State of Utah yes they have been banned and prices when up on rose hairs.
> 
> 
> 
> Jose


So the rumor is true after all?


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## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (May 17, 2015)

MrsHaas said:


> So the rumor is true after all?


 Yes it's true, I found this out at a reptile show earlier today.

Jose


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## MrsHaas (May 17, 2015)

I heard it happened like 4 days ago



--J.Haas

---------- Post added 05-17-2015 at 12:18 AM ----------




jose said:


> Yes it's true, I found this out at a reptile show earlier today.
> 
> Jose


Did this happen to be the Pleasanton convention? I missed it *shucks*



--J.Haas


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## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (May 17, 2015)

MrsHaas said:


> I heard it happened like 4 days ago
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 No this was in Salt Lake City, and it is the first time I hear about it. It does make me wonder if any other species besides rose hair will not be imported as well.


Jose


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## MrsHaas (May 17, 2015)

jose said:


> No this was in Salt Lake City, and it is the first time I hear about it. It does make me wonder if any other species besides rose hair will not be imported as well.
> 
> 
> Jose


Ditto! How much did rose hairs to up in price? Do you know?


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## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (May 17, 2015)

MrsHaas said:


> Ditto! How much did rose hairs to up in price? Do you know?


 I saw it as high as $49.99. The pet store owner that informed me did not seem happy about the banned at all. I take it that the store owner may be taking a loss since now he has to raise the price and maybe have to keep feeding some of those spiders for a while.

Jose


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## MrsHaas (May 17, 2015)

jose said:


> I saw it as high as $49.99
> 
> Jose


Seriously? For a MF?


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## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (May 17, 2015)

MrsHaas said:


> Seriously? For a MF?


 That's if you are lucky to get a female most pet stores aren't going to tell you what sex the tarantulas are. Unless you are dealing with an individual that knows a lot about spiders.



Jose


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## MrsHaas (May 17, 2015)

jose said:


> That's if you are lucky to get a female most pet stores aren't going to tell you what sex the tarantulas are. Unless you are dealing with an individual that knows a lot about spiders.
> 
> 
> 
> Jose


Wowza! That's quite a bit to gamble on subadult... I'm surprised it went up so fast! I figured it would be gradual



--J.Haas


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## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (May 17, 2015)

MrsHaas said:


> Wowza! That's quite a bit to gamble on subadult... I'm surprised it went up so fast! I figured it would be gradual
> 
> 
> 
> --J.Haas


 We'll probably cause now pet store owners are not seeing the rose hairs on their price list. 


Jose


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## DVirginiana (May 17, 2015)

In response to the comments earlier that the main threat to the population is not the main threat to this species "taking them out of the world in general is":  This is completely illogical.  It takes numbers far lower than the current wild population of G. rosea to throw a species into the sort of 'death spiral' of inbreeding and predation that will lead to extinction.  The point of the ban is to prevent the numbers from getting that low that it comes to that.  From a conservationalist standpoint it makes perfect sense.  This is also my perspective as an ecologist.  

As annoying as it may be, I'm glad there will finally be incentive to breed captive populations of this species and reduce strain on the natural ecosystems.

Reactions: Like 4


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## cold blood (May 17, 2015)

Sentinel said:


> However, not all humans are actively threatening this spider. If the spider were to be left alone, as you advocate, you imply it will surely progress into a death spiral. So. Breed the animal in captivity. Release the progeny into the wild. Rinse and repeat. Factor for inbreeding. What part of this is illogical?
> 
> 
> 
> ...

Reactions: Like 1


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## Hellemose (May 17, 2015)

Biollantefan54 said:


> So we are saving G. rosea/porteri by taking them out of the wild.
> 
> I am pretty sure we have a different way of thinking.


i will suggest people to read the book : The Invisible Ark by David and Tracy Barker  - http://vpi.com/store/products/invisible-ark-defense-captivity-david-and-tracy-barker-2014

i know it doesnt specifically focus on T's but its focus is to make clear how conservation through captivation can be good and important, alot of species survival are ensured because of the hobbyists keeping and breeding them.


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## Blueandbluer (May 17, 2015)

Hellemose said:


> i will suggest people to read the book : The Invisible Ark by David and Tracy Barker  - http://vpi.com/store/products/invisible-ark-defense-captivity-david-and-tracy-barker-2014
> 
> i know it doesnt specifically focus on T's but its focus is to make clear how conservation through captivation can be good and important, alot of species survival are ensured because of the hobbyists keeping and breeding them.


I do t think anyone here disagrees with that, Hellemose. We absolutely should keep breeding them. However, we have already imported more than enough stock to be able to do that. There is 0 benefit to continuing to pull them out of their native habitat and plenty harm. 

Here's the difference, folks. If we have an animal like pokies who are endangered because of loss of habitat or or suchlike, yeah, it may make sense to keep exporting while we attempt conservation through husbandry. They'll die if left there, so maybe we can give them a chance. But when their main threat is that very exportation? Then continuing to export is just irresponsible greed. 

I am generally leery of legislation in the pet trade, but I am all for this importation ban. As I see it, it can only have good effects:

1) Wild population has an opportunity to rebound (and there's no reason to assume it won't when export was causing the problem to begin with)
2) We hobbyists get rewarded for breeding with higher value on the juves we've bred
3) The petstores stop hawking G roseas/porteris as the best beginner T (they're NOT)

Win-win-win.

Reactions: Like 3


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## awiec (May 17, 2015)

cold blood said:


> Suddenly relevant again with a new "twin" thread.:wondering:
> 
> Search engine anyone?


Probably should get merged, exact same points are being made and same people are responding


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## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (May 17, 2015)

I agree with putting a stop to wild caught specimens specially on rose hairs, for a limited time only. Rose hairs have been collected for many years and by the hundreds. I am always able to purchase wholesale wild caught rose hairs by the hundreds. That is just a bit much, specially considering for how many years they have being imported. 
Though I absolutely agree as a collector or pet keeper I would like to have wild caught specimen of any species available. Where do you draw the line and put a stop of wild caught specimens being collected from the wild? Grammostola rosea has being pissed on sort of speak do to the fact that they are nothing value to collectors. I like rose hairs, they are indeed slow growers but no different than some other different species in collectors homes.


-J


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## ratluvr76 (May 17, 2015)

Are rosea like B. Smith? Let me clarify. B smithi  were being by the thousands by the people in mexico because they were considered a pest species and the people would hunt them out specifically to kill them for that reason. When they found that there was an opportunity to sell them into the pet trade, the people there, being impoverished would then sell them and ship them off onstead. When they became cites listed, effectively banned from export from mexico, they just went back to killing them instead.


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## awiec (May 17, 2015)

ratluvr76 said:


> Are rosea like B. Smith? Let me clarify. B smithi  were being by the thousands by the people in mexico because they were considered a pest species and the people would hunt them out specifically to kill them for that reason. When they found that there was an opportunity to sell them into the pet trade, the people there, being impoverished would then sell them and ship them off onstead. When they became cites listed, effectively banned from export from mexico, they just went back to killing them instead.


Not sure if people bothered them really, I do recall an article that they are a valuable cash animal because of the pet trade. Though I think Chile has a better track record of keeping their natives safe compared to Mexico. I can't seem to recall any data saying the people were killing them, I imagine they would just be left alone. Though even if people went back to killing them, that is an issue with education not the pet trade. We need to breed what we have (which is a lot of diverse blood lines) so we can't be targeted by pet groups saying we decimate wild populations. I'm all for bringing some WC specimens here and there to keep things fresh but there are thousands of rosea in captivity that should be bred.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (May 17, 2015)

awiec said:


> Not sure if people bothered them really, I do recall an article that they are a valuable cash animal because of the pet trade. Though I think Chile has a better track record of keeping their natives safe compared to Mexico. I can't seem to recall any data saying the people were killing them, I imagine they would just be left alone. Though even if people went back to killing them, that is an issue with education not the pet trade. We need to breed what we have (which is a lot of diverse blood lines) so we can't be targeted by pet groups saying we decimate wild populations. I'm all for bringing some WC specimens here and there to keep things fresh but there are thousands of rosea in captivity that should be bred.


 This is exactly one of my points there are thousands of them. 
 And yes we need to breed them. Not ignore them. Well said!


-J


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## awiec (May 17, 2015)

jose said:


> This is exactly one of my points there are thousands of them.
> And yes we need to breed them. Not ignore them. Well said!
> 
> 
> -J


It's also one of the reasons why I never really wanted one as there would just be another in the pet store or if I were to get CB slings then I wouldn't have anyone interested in them if I had a male or needed to find homes for them. Even though I generally pick what I like, I also keep in the back in my mind whether or not I'd be able to re-home them or breed them if I needed to, G.rosea/porteri just don't fit that criteria very well.


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## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (May 17, 2015)

awiec said:


> It's also one of the reasons why I never really wanted one as there would just be another in the pet store or if I were to get CB slings then I wouldn't have anyone interested in them if I had a male or needed to find homes for them. Even though I generally pick what I like, I also keep in the back in my mind whether or not I'd be able to re-home them or breed them if I needed to, G.rosea/porteri just don't fit that criteria very well.


 There was one point in time that rosea was not being imported, and people were dying to get their hands on them again just like the Grammostola sp. "Conception". Now it's happening again and maybe for good including porteri and maybe others like Eauthlus species. This is a wake up call for us hobbiest. 
Now there is a reason for us hobbiest to begin and continue the process of CB breeding of this fine species. 


-J


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## MrsHaas (May 17, 2015)

Wait, hold up... Lol didn't I post this same thread last night? Where did it get moved to?


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## ratluvr76 (May 17, 2015)

awiec said:


> Not sure if people bothered them really, I do recall an article that they are a valuable cash animal because of the pet trade. Though I think Chile has a better track record of keeping their natives safe compared to Mexico. I can't seem to recall any data saying the people were killing them, I imagine they would just be left alone. Though even if people went back to killing them, that is an issue with education not the pet trade. We need to breed what we have (which is a lot of diverse blood lines) so we can't be targeted by pet groups saying we decimate wild populations. I'm all for bringing some WC specimens here and there to keep things fresh but there are thousands of rosea in captivity that should be bred.



I completely agree that either way cb is the way to go. I believe every species in the hobby should be worked towards sustainable captive breeding populations.


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## MrsHaas (May 17, 2015)

Oh - I think they somehow combined the two threads! How strange but cool ... lol

Reactions: Like 1


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## awiec (May 17, 2015)

jose said:


> There was one point in time that rosea was not being imported, and people were dying to get their hands on them again just like the Grammostola sp. "Conception". Now it's happening again and maybe for good including porteri and maybe others like Eauthlus species. This is a wake up call for us hobbiest.
> Now there is a reason for us hobbiest to begin and continue the process of CB breeding of this fine species.
> 
> 
> -J



Which I think we're better handled to deal with an import ban now since the internet allows for quick communication. Tthough I do like sp Conception and regret not getting any when I had the chance. I remember one of my professors had like 30 MM G.rosea that were used in experiments (they weren't harmed as far as I know) and she kept them so they could live out the rest of their lives in peace as there is no demand for the species and were going to be frozen. She brought them in for our spider class to use in lab so we could time how fast they can walk and how long they can walk before tiring (took almost an hour).


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## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (May 17, 2015)

Glad to see this threads merge together. I email Advan if they can merge the two threads together maybe somebody else did the same.


-J

Reactions: Like 1


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## MrsHaas (May 17, 2015)

Excellent for a second I thought I had imagined posting this lol!


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## cold blood (May 17, 2015)

Hellemose said:


> i will suggest people to read the book : The Invisible Ark by David and Tracy Barker  - http://vpi.com/store/products/invisible-ark-defense-captivity-david-and-tracy-barker-2014
> 
> i know it doesnt specifically focus on T's but its focus is to make clear how conservation through captivation can be good and important, alot of species survival are ensured because of the hobbyists keeping and breeding them.


Seriously missing the point.   I agree with the above statement...the argument I make is that there have been and continues to be PLENTY of stock available within the hobby to easily maintain cb breeding stock....continuing to take them out of the wild is absolutely pointless and the only purpose it currently serves is further reduction of wild ones.

We attained conservation through captivation decades ago....instead of running with what we have, we ignored it in favor of cheap WC rosies.....this is the opposite of conservation at this point in time.

They aren't endangered or even threatened, we need to keep it that way...good import ban all the way.

Reactions: Like 4


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## awiec (May 17, 2015)

cold blood said:


> Seriously missing the point.   I agree with the above statement...the argument I make is that there have been and continues to be PLENTY of stock available within the hobby to easily maintain cb breeding stock....continuing to take them out of the wild is absolutely pointless and the only purpose it currently serves is further reduction of wild ones.
> 
> We attained conservation through captivation decades ago....instead of running with what we have, we ignored it in favor of cheap WC rosies.....this is the opposite of conservation at this point in time.
> 
> They aren't endangered or even threatened, we need to keep it that way...good import ban all the way.


I see it as stopping while you're ahead, we need to identify and conserve species BEFORE they become threatened. This is the approach we need to take for the future if we want anything besides cats and dogs in the world.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (May 17, 2015)

Absolutely correct, there is no need to keep continuing taking rose hairs out of the wild anymore until a suitable time. Captive born breeding is the way to go with this species. There are plenty of them in the hobby that we don't need to be worrying about same bloodlines breeding together.


-J

Reactions: Like 1


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## Hanska (May 18, 2015)

So this is an import ban in the US, not an export ban in Chile?
So us europeans just keep raiding the wild population...


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## Blueandbluer (May 18, 2015)

Hanska said:


> So this is an import ban in the US, not an export ban in Chile?
> So us europeans just keep raiding the wild population...


I had gotten the impression it was on Chiles side, but maybe I'm wrong. At the moment there seems to be very little reliable details beyond "yes it's legit."

Reactions: Like 1


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## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (May 18, 2015)

My understanding that it is Chile.


-J


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## vespers (May 18, 2015)

They're still the same old $19.99 price at my local Petco like usual. For the moment, anyhow.


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## awiec (May 18, 2015)

vespers said:


> They're still the same old $19.99 price at my local Petco like usual. For the moment, anyhow.


Bans usually take time before they go into full effect, there are probably a few more shipments of them to be processed before we start seeing the impacts of the ban.


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## Angel Minkov (May 18, 2015)

I say this ban is great, anyone else trying to justify it isn't is just plain wrong and ignorant. Why would we need any more G. rosea? To "save" the population? Get real. 80% of the G. rosea purchases from those harvests are by newbies who buy them mainly because of the price and have no intentions of breeding them and they just go to waste. We should start working with what we have and think a little bit about preserving nature. 

+1000000 on the ban.


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## vespers (May 18, 2015)

awiec said:


> Bans usually take time before they go into full effect, there are probably a few more shipments of them to be processed before we start seeing the impacts of the ban.


Jose already saw some price increases where he was. I saw emperor scorpions go up in price quite fast as well, once the news hit about them 2 years back.


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## awiec (May 18, 2015)

vespers said:


> Jose already saw some price increases where he was. I saw emperor scorpions go up in price quite fast as well, once the news hit about them 2 years back.


They are still 20 bucks at a big chain pet store near me, I imagine they still have a few more in stock before things get jacked up. Thoug pet stores might not even care about the ban and just finish off selling the rest of their roseas and rely on avics, which still are still legal to import and are a draw cause they're blue.


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## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (May 18, 2015)

Chile shut down completely! And it is not just the rose hairs, it is every tarantulas that being exported out of Chile you can kiss them good bye. Rely on CB breeding only. I took photos from another pet store the prices they have of the rose hairs I will post later.


Jose

---------- Post added 05-18-2015 at 04:28 PM ----------

Here is a photo of the $49.99 dollar rose hairs.









-J


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## awiec (May 18, 2015)

jose said:


> Chile shut down completely! And it is not just the rose hairs, it is every tarantulas that being exported out of Chile you can kiss them good bye. Rely on CB breeding only. I took photos from another pet store the prices they have of the rose hairs I will post later.
> 
> 
> Jose
> ...


While I'm happy for rosea, I'm a bit bummed about the other species we haven't been able to import yet.


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## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (May 18, 2015)

awiec said:


> While I'm happy for rosea, I'm a bit bummed about the other species we haven't been able to import yet.


 I feel the same way. Now I forced to put on hold on selling some of my Eauthlus sp., Grammostola sp. "Concepcion and my Grammostola sp. "Northern Gold".



-J


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## viper69 (May 18, 2015)

Well this news makes my young cb male G rosea RCF worth at least as much as a H pulchripes!

I have 3 Eu. sp Red and Yellow. No way I'm selling them

Reactions: Like 1


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## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (May 19, 2015)

viper69 said:


> Well this news makes my young cb male G rosea RCF worth at least as much as a H pulchripes!
> 
> I have 3 Eu. sp Red and Yellow. No way I'm selling them


 I would be holding some of those spiders like if they were gold. As for myself I have been trying to sell mine before this Chile export ban. And will eventually sell mine. But for those of you that are in a different position of not selling I would keep them for as long as you can.


-J


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## Quazgar (May 19, 2015)

Does anybody yet have any links to official sources for this? I'd like to read the actual rules/legislation (and not just "I was told").

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (May 19, 2015)

Quazgar said:


> Does anybody yet have any links to official sources for this? I'd like to read the actual rules/legislation (and not just "I was told").


 My only source is a few local pet stores in the state of Utah and Joe Rossi on Arachnoboards.


-J


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## Issehalsey (May 19, 2015)

I guess the two sacs I'm about to get should serve me well  


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Reactions: Like 1


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## ratluvr76 (May 19, 2015)

Issehalsey said:


> I guess the two sacs I'm about to get should serve me well


+1... Now I really hope my girl produces a sac from the pairing.


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## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (May 27, 2015)

*Latest update!*

The latest update is that Chile will be closed for the next 5 years. 


*Mr. Baumgarteni 
A.k.A Fracta Man*

Reactions: Like 1


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## Arachnomaniac19 (May 28, 2015)

About time. Barely enough time to get their numbers up a little bit though.


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## Draketeeth (Jun 2, 2016)

Exoskeleton Invertebrates said:


> *Latest update!*
> 
> The latest update is that Chile will be closed for the next 5 years.


Did I miss finding the link to the official source on this? Where is this information coming from?


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