# Death Curl sling, ICU, unresponsive & uncurling?



## betuana (Nov 14, 2008)

I have a question for people before I get my hopes up here...

I went to check on my Ts yesterday while I was waiting for the mail truck to get back to the office so I could go get my new Ts, and found one of my little 1/3 inch B. vagans slings completely curled and unresponsive. All the legs were tucked in and curled up tightly under its body, top of the carapace and abdomen very visible, toes touching its underside. It was sitting upright at the top of one of its burrows it's made it its vial. I looked very carefully for any sign of life, but saw no reaction twitching, or anything. It seemed pretty much dead, but I knew it had been ok the night before when I looked in, and it wasn't all dried out and way dead like my only other death (a b. emilia sling). Having had recent sucess with bringing my g. pulchra very sucessfully back from a curl, I very very carefully got the vagans out and put it upright in an ICU in hopes that maybe there was enough life left for it to get some water and maybe recover. 

Not sure what happened, both its sac mates are doing perfectly fine, and all 3 are kept exactly the same. They just molted 3 weeks ago, and haven't gone dark again since, so its unlikely that it was trying to molt (and not really a molting position.

So today I went to look in on the sling that I've assumed was dead, and found it still completely unresponsive exactly where I left it in the ICU. However, the legs and pedilaps are now uncurled and sitting along side the sling, not completely spread out but in a more relaxed stance. Absolutely not a twitch from the sling, but given that the legs have uncurled, I closed the ICU back up and put it back.

My question is, if it was dead would sitting on a damp paper towel in an ICU sort of environment cause its legs to uncurl from under it just from all the moisture around it? Or does this mean that it may still be alive, despite the lack of response, and the ICU is actually working? I'm erring on the side of caution and treating it like its still alive for now, but I don't want to get my hopes up if its just a matter of the moisture level in the ICU causing the legs of a dead sling to uncurl.

Any thoughts or experiences with this? I'll certainly let everyone know if it does make a miraculous recovery...I was definitely surprised to see the legs uncurled when I looked in there! Hopefully no one has ever had a dead T that has had legs uncurl and spread out just from moisture and I can see this as a good sign! Oh, and the pedilaps were spread out in front of it touching the towel instead of being tucked under too, not just the legs.


----------



## Moltar (Nov 14, 2008)

Well, I don't have any experiential data for you but logically, it seems to me that if the legs are uncurling it's still alive. It won't be able to rehydrate it's limbs (causing them to uncurl) without a functioning circulatory system, right?

I hope your lil guy pulls through. Occasionally losing a specimen is part of the hobby and all but it sure sucks when it happens.


----------



## betuana (Nov 14, 2008)

Just thought I'd post a picture of how its sitting right now in case my description isn't helpful....Sadly the picture is pretty low quality since my camera with the GOOD microlens is dead right now - we need to get a new battery for it, its no longer charging right...






Etown, thanks for the encouragement. I am hoping that the fact that the legs are spread (against gravity too, not like it was on its back and they 'fell' open or something) means the sling has some circulation and is alive. Not even twitching a bit in response to anything which is why I wasn't sure if it was or not, but the uncurling seems like it should be a good sign.

I know losing an occasional T is something that happens, I was bummed when my b. emilia sling died, and that slings seem to have a higher rate of non-survival (part of the reason why there are so many in a sac!). Thats partially why I have 3 of these little guys. But it definitely sucks, and I'm really hoping it pulls through, even if it is just a little b. vagans sling. My favorite of the 3 too, go figure. Its the one that makes the most interesting little tunnels and burrows along the sides of the vial!


----------



## Travis K (Nov 14, 2008)

Interesting?  please keep us updated.  I would say if it is unresponsive after the next 24 hrs you can be sure it is dead.  Being as it is soo small I can see it getting rehydrated and still be dead, but I don't think it would have changed positions on its own.  Did you manually move its legs at all?


----------



## Kel_420 (Nov 14, 2008)

I'm doing the same too. I put it next to a light for warmth =(


----------



## betuana (Nov 14, 2008)

Kel - good luck with yours, I hope it recovers. If you have it by a light, make sure it doesn't get too warm and that it is shaded from it so it is kept dark to reduce stress too, since most Ts don't care much for light...

I did not move the legs at all - when I put the sling in it was curled, and when I looked it again it was as pictured. I wasn't sure if they could absorb much moisture through their skin, and if they could if it might put enough fluid in that it causes their legs to extend out again. Seems possible. I'm waiting and seeing, but so far there has been no change since I posted earlier about the legs spreading out. Hasn't moved, still unresponsive. Giving it time is not costing me anything though, and can't hurt it, so just a waiting game...


----------



## desertdweller (Nov 14, 2008)

Looks alive to me.  As etown said, They can't uncurl their legs by sitting in moisture.  I've tried to uncurl a dead T the same way and it didn't happen.  It might not survive still, if it is weak, but it was alive in the pic.  As someone else said here, I don't bury any T until it stinks!  

GOOD VIBES to the little one!!!!!!!!  And :clap: to you for doing absolutely every thing you can.


----------



## Kel_420 (Nov 14, 2008)

betuana said:


> Kel - good luck with yours, I hope it recovers. If you have it by a light, make sure it doesn't get too warm and that it is shaded from it so it is kept dark to reduce stress too, since most Ts don't care much for light...
> 
> I did not move the legs at all - when I put the sling in it was curled, and when I looked it again it was as pictured. I wasn't sure if they could absorb much moisture through their skin, and if they could if it might put enough fluid in that it causes their legs to extend out again. Seems possible. I'm waiting and seeing, but so far there has been no change since I posted earlier about the legs spreading out. Hasn't moved, still unresponsive. Giving it time is not costing me anything though, and can't hurt it, so just a waiting game...


how is he now, any responds?


----------



## betuana (Nov 15, 2008)

Still no movement or response to anything. The legs are still out, though the toes are curled under at the ends. Its now been about 31 hours since I put the sling in ICU, and 13 hours since I saw the legs uncurled....

I've looked a few times and can't see that anything was obviously wrong with it. The abdomen never looked shriveled or shrunken, it was at least as big as the carapace because they had been fed about 4 days before this happened. The enclosure was exactly as it had been, mostly dry (since it is a brachy) except one "corner" (its round, so that sort of idea at least), that I dripped water on for them to drink. No signs of mites (the substrate is mostly dry) or other problems. It and its sac mates have molted twice in my care and were doing great. I don't think I'm going to ever be able to figre ot what happened with it...but I'm still giving it time for a miraculous recovery. Not sure I'm going to get it though, as time is ticking and not much is happening. But as I've said before, the time is not costing me anything, better to wait than to give up on it if time might be enough to save it...


----------



## beanb142002 (Nov 15, 2008)

This is just an educated guess but the T could have gotten stuck in a molt.  I read of this in the "Tarantula Keeper's Guide".

I do hope it lives.


----------



## codykrr (Nov 15, 2008)

the last time i seen a t acting this way it had an illness called diskinetic or something they will walk funny curl up like its dead then doesnt move wont respond and when it did move it looked limp they almost allways die. i hope yours doesnt have this but it is always possible


----------



## Kel_420 (Nov 15, 2008)

betuana said:


> Still no movement or response to anything. The legs are still out, though the toes are curled under at the ends. Its now been about 31 hours since I put the sling in ICU, and 13 hours since I saw the legs uncurled....
> 
> I've looked a few times and can't see that anything was obviously wrong with it. The abdomen never looked shriveled or shrunken, it was at least as big as the carapace because they had been fed about 4 days before this happened. The enclosure was exactly as it had been, mostly dry (since it is a brachy) except one "corner" (its round, so that sort of idea at least), that I dripped water on for them to drink. No signs of mites (the substrate is mostly dry) or other problems. It and its sac mates have molted twice in my care and were doing great. I don't think I'm going to ever be able to figre ot what happened with it...but I'm still giving it time for a miraculous recovery. Not sure I'm going to get it though, as time is ticking and not much is happening. But as I've said before, the time is not costing me anything, better to wait than to give up on it if time might be enough to save it...


no movement here neither... any news?


----------



## gambite (Nov 16, 2008)

I dont think it is that surprising for a young sling to die, even though it has not happened to me very often. It could be some kind of medical abnormality that was not induced by its environment. If a T were to die, I would say the first couple instars would be the most likely times for it. 

But it is pretty cool seeing it uncurl. If it is not stinking yet, you could try using an eye dropper to get some water right in the mouth-area. 

I honestly think its gone -if it is not dead already, it probably will be soon-, but that of course does not mean you should give up now.


----------



## betuana (Nov 16, 2008)

Still no movement, I'm thinking it is probably dead too. I have an eye dropper, but the drops are at least half the size of the sling, which makes it kinda hard to drop water in the mouth...there hasn't been any change though, and its been more than 3 days since I put it in ICU, and more than 2 since the legs uncurled. It hasn't moved at all.

This little guy came to me at 2nd or 3rd instar, and have molted twice in my care, so they are at 4th or 5th. Still very small. Dozer's 2 siblings seem to be doing well still, so it may still be a case of SADS/SSDS (Sudden Arachnic/Sling Death Syndrome). I'm sure there may be an actual explanation, but it may not be findable. 

They should have enough ventilation - here are their enclosures in case anyone has any input (these are Digger and Mole's enclosures, but Dozer had the same set up).






 There are holes throughout the top and all the way around the sides, as well as a couple holes in the bottom for drainage. Its filled with dry cocofiber, high enough that its just over one legspan from the ground to the top (except where they've dug holes), and they get water drops in it a few times a week. Fed flightless fruit flies or frozen/thawed pinheads once a week (food amount about the size of their carapace). 

Anyways, not sure if anything can be figured out to explain what happened, or if it is just one of the random sling deaths that happens. All my other slings seem to be doing great at least, so hopefully that means its just an isolated incident, and not a problem with what I'm doing.


----------



## Kel_420 (Nov 17, 2008)

betuana said:


> Still no movement, I'm thinking it is probably dead too. I have an eye dropper, but the drops are at least half the size of the sling, which makes it kinda hard to drop water in the mouth...there hasn't been any change though, and its been more than 3 days since I put it in ICU, and more than 2 since the legs uncurled. It hasn't moved at all.
> 
> This little guy came to me at 2nd or 3rd instar, and have molted twice in my care, so they are at 4th or 5th. Still very small. Dozer's 2 siblings seem to be doing well still, so it may still be a case of SADS/SSDS (Sudden Arachnic/Sling Death Syndrome). I'm sure there may be an actual explanation, but it may not be findable.
> 
> ...


I got mines at 2nd instar too =( 
It was at it's 5th waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah


----------

