# Is my tarantula a curly hair nicaragua or hondura?



## KevinsWither (Feb 21, 2017)

A person in which had a male told me that my tarantula was of the honduran or nicaraguan type. Which one is it? 













My lovely tarantula



__ KevinsWither
__ Feb 20, 2017
__ 5



						It is a curly hair tarantula.

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## EulersK (Feb 21, 2017)

You've got a Nicaraguan. Here's a hobby form, pretty easy to tell apart on this species.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Disagree 1


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## HybridReplicate (Feb 21, 2017)

Wow. I don't know that I've seen any but the hobby form. Seen side by side one looks sleek & murderous, the other kinda...derpy.

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## Andrea82 (Feb 21, 2017)

Thread with pictures of the two forms: 
http://arachnoboards.com/threads/wild-caught-brachypelma-albopilosum-from-nicaragua.280413/page-3

@EulersK 
Are you sure? The bristles look shorter than the Nicaraguan form, especially when comparing them to the pics of Philth in the above thread.

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## HybridReplicate (Feb 21, 2017)

From that same thread,  _Brachypelma albopilosum _[dark form] Honduras?

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## Andrea82 (Feb 21, 2017)

> ="HybridReplicate, post: 2587340, member: 118204"]From that same thread,  _Brachypelma albopilosum _[dark form] Honduras?


Yes, i think so, since 'Honduras' is in the title of the picture


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## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (Feb 21, 2017)

Andrea82 said:


> Thread with pictures of the two forms:
> http://arachnoboards.com/threads/wild-caught-brachypelma-albopilosum-from-nicaragua.280413/page-3
> 
> @EulersK
> Are you sure? The bristles look shorter than the Nicaraguan form, especially when comparing them to the pics of Philth in the above thread.


 The photo isn't that great, the bristles blends in to the background of the image so you can't see it as much.

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## The Grym Reaper (Feb 21, 2017)

I'd say Nicaraguan, pretty sure my girl is the hobby form.

View media item 38106

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## nicodimus22 (Feb 21, 2017)

KevinsWither said:


> A person in which had a male told me that my tarantula was of the honduran or nicaraguan type. Which one is it?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Guatamalean type!

What a twist!

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## EulersK (Feb 21, 2017)

Andrea82 said:


> Thread with pictures of the two forms:
> http://arachnoboards.com/threads/wild-caught-brachypelma-albopilosum-from-nicaragua.280413/page-3
> 
> @EulersK
> Are you sure? The bristles look shorter than the Nicaraguan form, especially when comparing them to the pics of Philth in the above thread.


Judging by the bristles is quite a hard way to go about things because of how they photograph, I've found. My girl is quite a bit "hairier" than she shows up in pictures, no really sure why that would happen.



I'm finding a bit of talk on the "Dark form" Honduran B. albopilosum, but absolutely no mention of them ever being imported... anywhere. So while they do apparently exist, I don't think that they've ever been present in the hobby. I could very well be wrong in this - @Exoskeleton Invertebrates, do you know of that form being imported? As far as I know, the only true B. albopilosum readily accessible in the hobby right now is the Nicaraguan import.

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## sdsnybny (Feb 21, 2017)

It looks like everything posted here is a hobby form form Honduras, Costa Rica, mutt/inbred. There are some exceptionally curly hobby forms but the give away is just how very fluffy and how curly the abdomen setae is. Carapace color seems to vary somewhat in both.

Female Nicaraguan import (premolt color)




Freshly molted female hobby form

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## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (Feb 21, 2017)

EulersK said:


> Judging by the bristles is quite a hard way to go about things because of how they photograph, I've found. My girl is quite a bit "hairier" than she shows up in pictures, no really sure why that would happen.
> View attachment 232129
> 
> 
> I'm finding a bit of talk on the "Dark form" Honduran B. albopilosum, but absolutely no mention of them ever being imported... anywhere. So while they do apparently exist, I don't think that they've ever been present in the hobby. I could very well be wrong in this - @Exoskeleton Invertebrates, do you know of that form being imported? As far as I know, the only true B. albopilosum readily accessible in the hobby right now is the Nicaraguan import.


 I'll post photo later today of a few specimens of mine that are the Nicaraguan albopilosum.


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## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (Feb 21, 2017)

sdsnybny said:


> It looks like everything posted here is a hobby form form Honduras, Costa Rica, mutt/inbred. There are some exceptionally curly hobby forms but the give away is just how very fluffy and how curly the abdomen setae is. Carapace color seems to vary somewhat in both.
> 
> Female Nicaraguan import (premolt color)
> View attachment 232130
> ...


 Second photo looks a bit hairy for a hobby form.

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## Andrea82 (Feb 21, 2017)

sdsnybny said:


> It looks like everything posted here is a hobby form form sta Rica, mutt/inbred. There are some exceptionally curly hobby forms but the give away is just how very fluffy and how curly the abdomen setae is. Carapace color seems to vary somewhat in both.
> 
> Female Nicaraguan import (premolt color)
> View attachment 232130
> ...


Wow, that sure adds to the 
confusion...it looks the other way around, first one being hobby form, second one Nicaraguan! 

Goes to show pictures aren't reliable for ID-ing species.....

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## sdsnybny (Feb 21, 2017)

Exoskeleton Invertebrates said:


> Second photo looks a bit hairy for a hobby form.


Its a sling I raised over the last 18-24 months, It was not sold as an import, were there slings brought imported in 2015? Pictured T is about 3.5-4"
received on 6/15 @ 2i, molted 7 times by 10/16


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## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (Feb 21, 2017)

sdsnybny said:


> Its a sling I raised over the last 18-24 months, It was not sold as an import, were there slings brought imported in 2015? Pictured T is about 3.5-4"
> received on 6/15 @ 2i, molted 7 times by 10/16


 The question is how long the Nicaraguan albopilosum wild caught specimens have been around and when was one of the first gravid females dropped a sac?

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## sdsnybny (Feb 21, 2017)

Exoskeleton Invertebrates said:


> The question is how long the Nicaraguan albopilosum wild caught specimens have been around and when was one of the first gravid females dropped a sac?


True, we don't know, so it was kept/sold as hobby form

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## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (Feb 21, 2017)

Andrea82 said:


> Wow, that sure adds to the
> confusion...it looks the other way around, first one being hobby form, second one Nicaraguan!
> 
> Goes to show pictures aren't reliable for ID-ing species.....


 I have Nicaraguan females that looked and still look like that from the first photo. His female is in need of a molt.


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## Andrea82 (Feb 21, 2017)

Exoskeleton Invertebrates said:


> I have Nicaraguan females that looked and still look like that from the first photo. His female is in need of a molt.


Yes, i understood that. It is just that the second one looks like it is way more hairy.


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## sdsnybny (Feb 21, 2017)

Exoskeleton Invertebrates said:


> I have Nicaraguan females that looked and still look like that from the first photo. His female is in need of a molt.


The Nicaraguan female in my post has since molted and looks just like the one Tom (Philth) posted in the thread link. It was purchased last fall at a pet store here in WA that knows it was a Nicaraguan import from Pet Center stock.


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## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (Feb 21, 2017)

*Photo #1*


*Photo #2*


*Photo #3*


	

		
			
		

		
	
 So let's take a look of the different color/markings on the carapace variants of the wild caught Brachypelma albopilosum "Nicaragua".

Specimen photo #1 is 99% percent black with no markings, which is the same example of Rick West website "Dark Form" Brachypelma albopilosum from Honduras http://www.birdspiders.com/gallery/...ma-albopilosum-female-San-Pedro-Sula-Honduras obviously the difference in between the two is the lack of bristles on the legs between the Nicaraguan and the Honduran.

Specimen photo number #2 with much lighter brighter color and very significant markings on the carapace that is visually seen.

Specimen photo number #3 with a little bit of markings on the carapace.

Regardless of the markings darker for or lighter form each specimen has the nice bristles all over the the body compare to the Honduran specimen photo on Rick West website.

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## viper69 (Feb 21, 2017)

The recent imports I've seen from @Exoskeleton Invertebrates all seem to be fairly dark with lighter colored setae, *and significantly more curled setae*.

But in that single picture from Rick West, that wild specimen looks more like what people call "hobby form" than Exo's pics in this thread.

Which leads me to wonder just what do people have in their collection. I have a AF that looks like the pic from Rick West more so than Jose's pics above in terms of setae.

I'm not convinced that everyone who owns a so-called hobby form owns a hybrid etc, no one can  prove that unless DNA analysis was done, to me at least.

I think as usual, like with many Avics, the source is not often known in the exotic animal trade.

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## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (Feb 21, 2017)

*Photo courtesy of Stuart Longhorn* 


	

		
			
		

		
	
 Two wild caught mature males Brachypelma albopilosum "Nicaragua" and Brachypelma albopilosum "Honduras". That is correct both wild caught specimens, the Honduran specimen I have permission from Stuart Longhorn to post his photo.

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## Belegnole (Feb 21, 2017)

Both beautiful and they obviously look different. But, is there any proof that they are anything other than local variants?


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## viper69 (Feb 21, 2017)

Belegnole said:


> Both beautiful and they obviously look different. But, is there any proof that they are anything other than local variants?


DNA is rarely used in tarantula taxonomy compared to cladistics, I haven't seen DNA for this species used yet in classification.


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## sjl197 (Feb 21, 2017)

^ This is why I legally collected my own animals directly in Honduras for study (like the male in my photo above) and my close collaborator Ray Gabriel legally collected some Nicaraguan ones.

The first Nicaraguan ones imported to USA/Europe to the best of my knowledge were in Aug/Sept 2015. Thanks to the Spidershop (UK) i was invited to the grand opening of the first shipment crate of 'Nicaragua' into UK/Europe in Aug/Sept 2015, and we went through every single individual in there! As far as i know, a few months later i had the first successful eggsac in Europe, which i left with the mother and discovered hatched on the 26.March 2016. Only adults (both mature males and female) and subadults came into UK then, and as far as i know it was same sort of dates for USA. There were lots of other eggsacs hatched soon after mine, and perhaps a couple earlier, i'd like to hear if there were. If you know of any exports before, i'd like to hear.

So what about this animal at the start?
Quite honestly, i really wish people would stop guessing and rebranding. Either you know your animal comes direct from recent Nicaraguan imports or you don't. 

I've seen a worrying number of animals bought through awful store-chains like 'Petco' and such. If after late 2015, then chances are good it's Nicaraguan, but if you can't trace it to a particular Nicaraguan import - which i imagine are vast majority bought through store-chains, then here's my simple message - DONT call it Nicaraguan! I'm filled with dread and despair at some such guesses i've seen going around.... Guess being the key word to take note of. And do you think the kid in the store-chain knows where it comes from - i really doubt it. 

and please don't call the longterm hobby ones 'Honduran'. What it looks like at the moment is that in early 80s or so, some animals were coming out of Costa Rica. Then a Honduran exporter took over business and flooded his stock in the hobby, And what next? Well, i expect people just guessed, assumed and bred whatever with whatever. Sound familiar?

and please stop already with the 'colour form' thing. Ok, so i've seen at least somewhere in the region of 5000+ adults, from Costa Rica, Nicaragua, and Honduras, both in wild and captivity. Here's the thing. Like different individuals of anything, there's differences between individuals, and particularly for the honduran or hobby ones, they're hugely variable - especially in carapace, but also fluffiness and whatever other general quality might be thought of next. 

Well, all that being said, I see nothing about the original animal (that started the thread)  to indicate it's one of the recent Nicaraguan imports. But more importantly, concentrate please on whether its origins can be securely traced back to any known Nicaraguan import. If not, take the safer route and continue with it being treated as hobby stock, which i expect will get mixed and interbred anyway in next years (between older hobby-stock and some of the new imports). 

So, 
If you KNOW your animal comes from Nicaraguan imports, then let's keep at least JUST those securely sourced ones pure - like the great ones shown in later replies above.
If you have to ask on a forum/facebook etc what 'form' it is, then you don't know, and pretty much always neither will anyone else!

Peace out.

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## Belegnole (Feb 21, 2017)

sjl197 said:


> ^ This is why I legally collected my own animals directly in Honduras for study (like the male in my photo above) and my close collaborator Ray Gabriel legally collected some Nicaraguan ones.
> 
> Peace out.


Thank you for your insight.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## KevinsWither (Apr 4, 2017)

I think personally its more of a hobby form. Checked with the person who sold me this and he said its likely a hobby form.


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## penngomifan (Apr 4, 2017)

Seems like there is no quote on quote hobby form.  Its more of a variant on locality.  How many times have people bred the Nicaragua variant with the Honduras variant??? Well at least thats my opinion.


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## dogpack (Jul 6, 2022)

This is wonderful.  I'm very glad to have this knowledge.  Doing things right is exactly what I want to do for the sake of the animals and for the hobby.  For me, this is serious business.  Knowledge is power and the key to keeping things pure.  Definitely, I do not want to muddle things especially when purity is trumped by greed and misinformation.  I really, really cherish and appreciate this information, many, many thanks.


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## dogpack (Jul 6, 2022)

I am learning.  Depending on the light source photos may vary in coloration and details, so how for sure can anyone be certain about the differences?


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