# Narceus americanus ?



## Cyris69 (Jan 9, 2008)

Ok, I've had this guy for about 2.5 months now after finding him/her. I haven't measured it but I feel its full ground 4+".

I have it in the setup below which is a new one I just made, I reused the old coconut fiber in this setup just encase it layed. Now, is it safe to house it with ~50 adult isopods and their offspring which they are currently sharing the container?

What all can I feed it? I used to just leave dead dried leaves in there nothing else. Then I went out and got some dead wood bark and it seems to be loving that the first time I've actually seen it come out at night and it eats the fungus hard green scaly stuff like its candy. How often should I replace it or will it eat all of it bark and all?

What sizes are they as babies? I went hunting for them under leaf litter that has accumulated for a year and found very small maybe 1" in length and very thin ones that look like it but without the red coloration. Is it safe to assume they are baby Narceus americanus? I could only find 3 which where together so i went ahead and put them into the tank as well.

What sized tank should I use instead of the 6qt or 1.5gal sterilite.

Is live moss fine to use in there as well? I have it by my window so it all gets sunlight and the day/night cycle. I just got some from outside and have 1/2 of the container with it on top of the soil.

I know I'm going to have more questions soon, but I'm tired and can barely type let alone think 

Thanks for any replies and insight.
Here are the setup pictures and of him in it. He seems to have what looks like mycosis here and there. I keep it moist and mist every other day lightly.
It's on myspace, I can host it elsewhere if the proves to be an issue.
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/ind...viewPicture&friendID=42197299&albumId=1124761


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## Elytra and Antenna (Jan 9, 2008)

Cyris69 said:


> What sizes are they as babies? I went hunting for them under leaf litter that has accumulated for a year and found very small maybe 1" in length and very thin ones that look like it but without the red coloration. Is it safe to assume they are baby Narceus americanus?


Babies start out at a few millimeters but are white until they reach half an inch or so. What you found are likely adult julid millipedes.


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## Cyris69 (Jan 10, 2008)

Where would be a great place to look for Narceus americanus? I found my specimen about an hour or so south of where I lived which we were working in Brown County, Indiana. It was living under some leaves and dirt. It was 100% luck because I was at work building decks and was digging out an area to level it for the joists and there it was.

I'd love to find more of these. I was a little kid that would turn over every rock, log, leaf, etc in the wood and this was the very first time I've ever seen one. So it seems they aren't as common as they say, or just hard for me to find


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## padkison (Jan 10, 2008)

Cyris69 said:


> Where would be a great place to look for Narceus americanus?  ... it seems they aren't as common as they say, or just hard for me to find


Not sure how common they are in your part of IN, but N. americanus is common in central and western NC.  I have noticed that this millipede will be abundant in one area but not in another area within a mile that appears  like the same habitat.  Or even within a hundred yards.  I.e. distribution seems to be spotty.  Places I do find them, they can be very abundant and one can find 50 or so in an acre (all sizes).

I find them in hardwood forests under the leaf litter.  At night they come out and crawl around on top of the leaves and on the trunks of hardwood trees.  By day I collect them by using a rake in the leaf litter.  When you rake a patch of leaves, the millipede will curl up and wind up on the bare dirt you just exposed.

Once the weather cools consistently into the 40s at night, they are hard to find here.  I suspect they go underground and stay there.  I have found colonies of juveniles in the winter under rotting logs.

These millipedes like summer squash, apples, and cucumbers as well as other veggies in addition to rotting hardwood leaves.


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## RoachGirlRen (Jan 10, 2008)

> What sizes are they as babies? I went hunting for them under leaf litter that has accumulated for a year and found very small maybe 1" in length and very thin ones that look like it but without the red coloration. Is it safe to assume they are baby Narceus americanus? I could only find 3 which where together so i went ahead and put them into the tank as well.


I definately agree with the other poster who mention that these are probably parajulidae 'pedes. I collected some unsure of the species and later found them through bug guide - they have a similar body shape to N. americanus but are quite long and skinny with less interesting coloration. I have several that have gotten quite long in captivity, a good 2". They aren't popular in the hobby but I personally find them quite awesome - they are VERY fast, active pedes, fun to observe and handle! From what I've read, they eat a lot of wood molds and lichens, so it might be good to provide that for them; I have for mine and they've been thriving for about five months now.


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## Cyris69 (Jan 10, 2008)

Thanks guys for the replies. 

Now is it fine to house them with such a large number or isopods? I'm making a colony and though it would be less bulk to place all of them together. What would be a fitting tank size? 
Will the dead bark continue to grow back that bright green scaly fungus? I could do a large collection before everything starts to freeze. Also, what is the likely hood that live moss will attach to the coconut fiber and grow? It has sunlight like stated before.

Lastly, how can I sex my guy. I know its from a pair of legs or something. Maybe a link for this species to help.


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## RoachGirlRen (Jan 11, 2008)

I believe essentially all millipedes can be sexed by looking for the modified grasping legs males have on the... I want to say 7th or 9th segment? They are usually tucked inwars and a bit tricky to see but if you can get him to climb a concave glass surface and take a good look with a magnifying glass, you should be able to see them. When my male African emerges from burrowing perhaps I will try to get you a picture.

Regarding the moss, I have had decent luck with it shaded and on coconut fiber. My main concern would be the amount of watering demanded to keep it from dying unless you can provide very high humidity. I would worry that the watering could perhaps drown a burrowing/molting pede, but I tend to be neurotic and overly cautious.

As far as lichen growing back on the wood, I believe you'll want to harvest fresh as it grows quite slowly. The wood itself is still excellent for nourishment and should be left in there, but aside from the possibility of molds returning, I'd say you are probably going to need new sources of lichen if you wish to feed it.

Not sure about the tank size for pedes + isopods, but if nature is any indication, millipedes and isopods cohabitate happily, and the isopods normally outnumber the pedes. I would think that with an appropriate food source it should be quite alright, though someone more experienced may correct me if I am wrong.


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## David_F (Jan 11, 2008)

Cyris69 said:


> Now is it fine to house them with such a large number or isopods?


Should be okay.  I kept four or five N. americanus with an ungodly number of isopods of different species together in a sterilite shoebox.  Heck, I think I even had a couple different species of mites and thrips in the same enclosure.  The millis and isopods all lived and reproduced just fine.  

Couple pics:


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## Cyris69 (Jan 11, 2008)

Great responses guys.

Thanks for telling me what that green stuff is. I'm worried about moisture too, considering he already seems to have some mycosis.
Great, glad they will do fine all together!

I would love to get some more of these guys. I'm thinking abut getting a few Archispirostreptus gigas at the show Sunday. Could I keep Archispirostreptus and Narceus communally including all the isopods in a 10gal tank? I'm not worried about if I can keep my milli with the gigas or not so if its a no go thats fine with me, I'll just transfer the isopods into the 10gal with a few gigas.

I'm taking a short break from scorpions buying and absolutely love these fascinating creatures so I though I might get a few. How many can I fit in a 10gal I'm thinking about getting 2-4 of these guys maybe more if the price is right.

I've been doing some research on sexing and it seems fairly easy to sex gigas via the 7th segment. If it just has a normal set of legs its a female and anything else is a male right? Does this also go for Narceus?

Thanks everyone for your continuing help.


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## RoachGirlRen (Jan 11, 2008)

I'd be inclined to say no about mixing Narceus and Archispirostreptus. My primary concern is the difference in temperature preferences. Narceus prefer cooler temps and Archispirostreptus warmer temps. The other needs are similar, but I'd be worried about keeping the Narceus too hot or the Archispirostreptus too cold.


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## Cyris69 (Jan 11, 2008)

What heat would you recommend for 14 hrs of the day for the gigas? I can't place them in my scorpion room because the ambient temp is about 85F-90F in the mid section but floor level is should be about 80F, my room temp is about 73-74F with my room door open, I keep my fan and AC on in my room constantly so its pretty drafty if that matters. The current room temp is hovering at 74.6F.

I don't have any floor room in my scorpion closet. The temperatures for the Narceus and Archispirostreptus will be the same unless that is an issue.

I will be wanting to add nice live plants and such to it and moss to get a pretty vivarium up and running. will a low watt UV bulb be fine since they only come out at night when it turns off?

Well, I'm heading out for lunch. I'll check back soon.


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## cacoseraph (Jan 11, 2008)

if you got a longer aquarium with >=2' in a length or width dimension you could make a warm side of the cage in your room

also, i don't have leafeaters (which might/probably rely on gut fauna more than carnivores) but my predators and roaches all do great in a wide range of temperatures. you might not have to adhere to some artificial 6 degree range. don't know though.


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## Cyris69 (Jan 11, 2008)

I have 3 new 10gals, 1 30gal, and 3 20 gals all fresh and waiting to be used.

I could if needed always get a small herp heat pad for a few bucks at the show sunday.


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## RoachGirlRen (Jan 11, 2008)

> also, i don't have leafeaters (which might/probably rely on gut fauna more than carnivores) but my predators and roaches all do great in a wide range of temperatures. you might not have to adhere to some artificial 6 degree range. don't know though.


Most are fine with temps a bit cooler than the ideal range (though, don't expect babies), but most also do very poorly in excess heat. Much of the failure in keeping say, Vietnamese Rainbow Millipedes for example was tied to keeping the temps too high - and in that case, the difference between 75 and 80 could be a fatal one. I'm honestly not sure with N. americanus though. They survive far north and south in America and thus probably deal with some fairly extreme temperatures, but I've always heard anything 80 plus is bad news. So, if they were to be combined, I'd reckon you'd be safer on the cooler end of the Giant Africans range than the higher end of the Narceus range. And ideally, they would be kept seperate to avoid compromising ideals for either.


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## Cyris69 (Jan 12, 2008)

Well, its riding the 80F mark where the tank will be in my scorpion room. So its sounds good for the gigas.

How much should I expect to pay for these at the show? I was thinking $8-$12. COuld be cheaper but I doubt it.


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## Cyris69 (Jan 13, 2008)

Woke up about an hr ago and the heat lamp is off in my scorp room and the gigas tank dropped to 72F will this be an issue?


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## Cyris69 (Jan 13, 2008)

Ok, I bought 5 A. gigas 2.3
Do they just mate all the time?

Thats all my females have been doing, swapping males and not stopping.
Here is a close shot.
http://www.vulomedia.com/images/74971gigasmating.jpg


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## fantasticp (Jan 13, 2008)

Cyris69 said:


> Woke up about an hr ago and the heat lamp is off in my scorp room and the gigas tank dropped to 72F will this be an issue?


No. I have kept them at 74+/-1 year round and they eat/reproduce just fine.


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## Cyris69 (Jan 13, 2008)

oh, are these predator mites they come with? The dealer said they have a symbiotic relationship with these certain mites that look like very small brown spiders that keep them clean.

I'm all for it if they do, I'll put them in my tropic species tanks to keep the bad mites out.


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## RoachGirlRen (Jan 14, 2008)

If they are little brownish, reddish, or tannish mites that move very rapidly and hang around the 'pedes legs, they are commensal mites. They help clean detritus from the legs and supposedly will eat pest mites on the pede as well. Here is a close-up pic with commensals:


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## Cyris69 (Jan 14, 2008)

Here, you tell me.

http://www.vulomedia.com/images/9024mites.jpg
http://www.vulomedia.com/images/79833mites2.jpg

All I know is I can't remove them. It really bugs me they are everywhere.

I can sometimes see it irritate the millie when they rush its face. It will do a short defense curl, then again that could be the lighting or me breathing.

I've tried water and cotton swabs, vaseline, etc.. after all that I removed 3 of them. It's practically impossible to wipe this guys off to reduce numbers. If I shouldn't worry about it I won't.


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## Cyris69 (Jan 14, 2008)

They seem to be cleaning each other, is this what I'm seeing? I know its not maiting I got my fair share or seeing that last night, these guys mate like rabits.
Also, Is this an ok setup?
Its all in a 10gal
It has exactly 6" of natural peat moss. Mixed with dead leaves and tree bark.
I have large bark on top for hides and food.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/cyris69/Archispirostreptus gigas/DSC03575.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/cyris69/Archispirostreptus gigas/DSC03574.jpg


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## KyuZo (Nov 2, 2011)

someone might find this helpful


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