# Goliathus - it has happened !!



## BeetleExperienc (May 5, 2017)

Ok folks, after spending the past two years working on this, I just got off of the phone with the USDA/APHIS ...

Three of the five species of Goliathus now no longer require permits!! This is not one of those shady things you hear about where you are not sure if it is really true or legal. *NO PERMITS* to own or ship between states: *Goliathus goliatus, Goliathus cacicus* and *Goliathus regius*

It's not 100% the list that I was hoping for, G.c. and G.r. are VERY hard to find, but at least for now we have something huge and exotic to work with - and hopefully we will be allowed the other two in the future.

Why? This change came about for two main reasons: the larvae will starve if not given an all-protien diet -and- the adults do not eat plants at any time, They feed on tree sap but only on sap runs that were created by other creatures and can not start a sap run themselves.

They said: for now, until everyone catches up to the idea, you should submit for a PPQ permit and you will be sent an official letter giving you clearance. I received an early version of this letter a while ago and already have some breeding.

I have been working with beetles for over 17 years, and never thought we would see this day. This is huge for our hobby!

If anyone has any questions, let me know.

Steven Barney
BeetleSource.com
Beetle-Experience.com

Reactions: Like 7 | Love 2 | Optimistic 1


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## BeetleExperienc (May 5, 2017)

You will still need an import permit to import directly from overseas, and the individual states can still cause us trouble, but as far as the APHIS is concerned we can breed, sell and ship as much as we want!

This finally went through after two years of me calling, emailing and sending articles about rearing and life cycles...

Reactions: Like 6


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## Smokehound714 (May 6, 2017)

WHOA NO WAY this is awesome!

Reactions: Agree 1


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## KevinsWither (May 6, 2017)

Oh hell yes!! I would do it, where I apply for a permit to import goliath beetles?


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## myrmecophile (May 6, 2017)

Very interesting development.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## VolkswagenBug (May 6, 2017)

This is great! Hopefully we'll be able to have them as pets within the next decade.


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## Ratmosphere (May 7, 2017)

Awesome! I hope this happens with a majority of flower/stag/rhino/long armed beetles as well.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Tleilaxu (May 7, 2017)

Can you provide us with some legal documents please?

Maybe your transcripts from APHIS as well. It would be nice to see.

Congratulations on your well earned victory.


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## myrmecophile (May 7, 2017)

Tleilaxu said:


> Can you provide us with some legal documents please?
> 
> Maybe your transcripts from APHIS as well. It would be nice to see.
> 
> Congratulations on your well earned victory.


That was going to be my next question as well.


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## BeetleExperienc (May 7, 2017)

I'm pretty sure none of the other Cetonids will get clearance, unless they have a life cycle almost identical to Goliathus. They won't want another "Japanese Beetle" problem on their hands. 

Stags might work, but we will see. The only things I would bet on being next are possibly the other two Goliathus then maybe some closely related species. I've started trying to gather documentation on G.o. and G.a. - we'll see.

As far as documentation, this is a copy/paste from one of the recent emails: "*I am issuing letters of "no permit required" for Goliathus spp.  Imports would need to come without any soil materials*." This won't really hold any weight though, and my last conversation with them was an hour long phone call. 

Anyone who wants to get them *now* should submit for a PPQ permit. You will be sent an official letter giving you clearance that has your name and address on it. This will not come with any containment procedures or inspections of your home - they will just send you a letter stating that APHIS/PPQ no longer requires permits for these three species. I've just re-submitted for an updated clearance letter.

You may also want to check with whoever your state Department of Agriculture - Quarantine Programs administrator is. Individual states may not want them.

Anyone who wants help submitting for clearance let me know. 

Anyone who does not want to go through the permitting procedure can wait until everyone is caught up with the new ruling and this has become normal. At some point we won't need these clearance letters any more and Goliath beetles will be imported and sold just like the exotic tarantulas or scorpions are now. I'm sure it won't be long before people start selling them - I'm hoping to have G.g. larvae available in a few months. 

Hope this helps - post more questions...

Steven

Reactions: Like 4


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## Smokehound714 (May 8, 2017)

im stoked because they're virtually identical to cotinis in care, except the larvae need more protein.  a billion times easier than rhinos.

Reactions: Like 1


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## BeetleExperienc (May 8, 2017)

Yes, they need more attention but are less difficult than rhinos.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Hisserdude (May 8, 2017)

BeetleExperienc said:


> Yes, they need more attention but are less difficult than rhinos.


Man, now I really want some! Do they need rotten wood at all? Will you have some larvae available eventually? I only ask because if I do end up getting some, I'd rather not import...

Reactions: Agree 1


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## BeetleExperienc (May 8, 2017)

They will eat a small amount of substrate when they first hatch but after that you can keep them in almost anything. I was using dirt at first, then switched to coco fiber. You do have to have some good substrate to collect eggs from the females though - standard Cetonid / Rhino type substrate.

I am planning on having some available in a few months.

Reactions: Like 1


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## BobBarley (May 8, 2017)

Woot woot woot!!!  This is a huge step for the U.S. beetle hobby.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Hisserdude (May 8, 2017)

BeetleExperienc said:


> They will eat a small amount of substrate when they first hatch but after that you can keep them in almost anything. I was using dirt at first, then switched to coco fiber. You do have to have some good substrate to collect eggs from the females though - standard Cetonid / Rhino type substrate.
> 
> I am planning on having some available in a few months.


Wow, really? Coconut fiber? Would have never guessed lol! So they just eat dog food and maybe live prey for most of their larval lifespans?
Would fermented Traeger sawdust work alone for the females to oviposit in, or do crumbled leaves need to be added as well? Also, how large of an enclosure do the adults need, any special requirements for them? Sorry for all the questions, just excited about the possibility of keeping these, and thus would like to learn everything I can about them! 

Awesome, glad to hear it!  How much do larvae usually go for?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## KevinsWither (May 9, 2017)

Any more care information on them? I am jumping on the boat too.... quick lets get a bunch of them before they get regulated by CITES, like with the emperor scorpions (pandinus imperator)

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ratmosphere (May 9, 2017)

They are super pricey, that's the only bad part.


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## BeetleExperienc (May 9, 2017)

Hisserdude:
Yes, they eat only high protein food for 99% of their larval stage.
Yes, fermented sawdust alone should work to collect eggs. I added some crushed and whole hardwood leaves but not sure if it was necessary. Don't keep the substrate too moist. 
For an enclosure, I used a 10 or 12 gallon plastic tote (would have to check on the size) and filled it over half way with substrate.

Reactions: Like 3


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## BeetleExperienc (May 9, 2017)

Don't forget, even though these are not regulated in the US any more, imports would still need a FWS import license

Reactions: Agree 2


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## BobBarley (May 9, 2017)

Hopefully this will both increase their prevalence here in the states and decrease their prices because of captive rearing.


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## BobBarley (May 9, 2017)

BeetleExperienc said:


> Don't forget, even though these are not regulated in the US any more, imports would still need a FWS import license


All we really need to do is convince some of those tarantula/scorpion importers who are already certified to import them in...  Correct?


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## Hisserdude (May 9, 2017)

BeetleExperienc said:


> Hisserdude:
> Yes, they eat only high protein food for 99% of their larval stage.
> Yes, fermented sawdust alone should work to collect eggs. I added some crushed and whole hardwood leaves but not sure if it was necessary. Don't keep the substrate too moist.
> For an enclosure, I used a 10 or 12 gallon plastic tote (would have to check on the size) and filled it over half way with substrate.


Awesome, that's great! I thought they ate way more decaying organic matter than that, no wonder they are allowing them to be kept here now.  

Cool, while dead leaves aren't the easiest thing to come by here, I've got no shortage of sawdust available to ferment! 

Ok, good to know! Thanks for all the info!

Reactions: Like 2


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## Ratmosphere (May 12, 2017)

Just was quoted 300 USD for _Goliathus orientalis preissi_, kind of steep but I'd do it! For the permit, does it apply for all _Goliathus _species? Also, how do I go about applying for the permit?


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## Tleilaxu (May 12, 2017)

Ratmosphere said:


> Just was quoted 300 USD for _Goliathus orientalis preissi_, kind of steep but I'd do it! For the permit, does it apply for all _Goliathus _species? Also, how do I go about applying for the permit?


I don't think the species you listed qualifies yet. As I understand it only the species list by the op are currently allowed.


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## BeetleExperienc (May 13, 2017)

Yes, it is for only 3 of the 5 Goliathus species, and you would still need a wildlife import license for direct imports. I think for most people it will be easier when some of us who already have import permits start importing and/or breeding them.


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## Ratmosphere (May 13, 2017)

Any idea why they didn't make all of the _Goliathus_ species eligible for the permit? Just curious.


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## BeetleExperienc (May 15, 2017)

Yes, I think it was partial miscommunication and partial lack of documentation on adult food sources in the wild.


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## Jones0911 (May 17, 2017)

So where online can I buy whatever is legal in the states?


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## VolkswagenBug (May 17, 2017)

Jones0911 said:


> So where online can I buy whatever is legal in the states?


@BeetleExperienc said he might have some eventually. They're not going to be available right now, it takes a while to import and breed them.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## BeetleExperienc (May 17, 2017)

Yeah, it will take a little while. It is difficult to find trustworthy people who live where they can be collected. I hope to have larvae available later this year!

Reactions: Like 2


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## BobBarley (May 17, 2017)

BeetleExperienc said:


> Yeah, it will take a little while. It is difficult to find trustworthy people who live where they can be collected. I hope to have larvae available later this year!


I had thought that getting people who already legally import reptiles/tarantulas from EU to the U.S. to import these beetles as well would be the easiest way, no?


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## BeetleExperienc (May 18, 2017)

That would be easier and probably quicker but more expensive; UK guys would end up being the "middle man". It will be interesting to see how this all turns out. I'm trying to get mine breeding so I have some to send out as soon as I can.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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