# General Observation: Experience level of keeper <> needed for T-species



## Storm76 (Feb 27, 2014)

Hello everyone!

It might just be me, but I think over that last 6 months I've seen so many threads popping up in which new keepers a) either ask for advice on what species to get, or b) posting their newly acquired animals proudly. Both is completely fine and fully understandable. However, what escapes me are the amount of people that seemingly completely disregard advice given to "slow down", "wait some time", "not get T species X". Instead of being glad more experienced keepers answering their questions, givinng them 1st hand insight to their problem / question they get mad. At this point I'm starting to ask myself why are you making a thread then in the first place - if you actually don't care about anything said to you?

The second thing is the, to me, alarming amount of completely new keepers starting out with OBTs, H. maculata or Poecies lately. Is that a new custom or something? Only because some people started out with "more experienced species" right away, doesn't mean everyone should do that. It also doesn't mean that the responsible keepers suggest OBTs and the like to newbies that just start the hobby. It's all well documented how hardy the species is, yes, but while you can care and maintain it correctly, doesn't mean a new person can.

A few things "in general" I was thinking about:

a) Go and look at the species you'd like to get first hand if possible! See how slow/fast/docile/defensive they can be with your own eyes before you jump into something that will cause you to questions yourself!
b) Do - your - research! Read, read, read, oh - and read! That's what every keeper here is doing here I believe. Firstly to stay up-to-date and secondly to learn of new approaches, developments, findings and the like.
c) Do not start with a highly defensive and/or unpredictable species from the ground up! More often than not, it leads to the bite-reports or a dead / escaped spider. Neither is wishful and certainly can be avoided by going slow
d) If there's one thing you'll need in this hobby besides learning to deal with the species it's generally: Patience! 

So, bottom line - is it only my impressions because of the amount of threads, or is it really seemingly becoming a trend to get the OW species that require more experience right as first T's?! I don't want to insult anyone here, but sometimes I honestly ask myself if common-sense is really that common...

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## BobGrill (Feb 27, 2014)

I  can tell this in regards to my thread. I just want to make it clear that I have been keeping Ts for 11 years and I've had two regalis for a number of years. That may not be a lot compared to some of you guys but its enough to where I felt comfortable enough to branch out. 

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## Storm76 (Feb 27, 2014)

BobGrill said:


> I  can tell this in regards to my thread. I just want to make it clear that I have been keeping Ts for 11 years and I've had two regalis for a number of years. That may not be a lot compared to some of you guys but its enough to where I felt comfortable enough to branch out.
> 
> Sent from my LG-P999 using Tapatalk 2


No, it's not in regard to your thread. It's meant in general since I see more and more of this happening. Don't take offense. I am mainly talking about new-keepers here. People that just start out.


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## BobGrill (Feb 27, 2014)

Storm76 said:


> No, it's not in regard to your thread. It's meant in general since I see more and more of this happening. Don't take offense. I am mainly talking about new-keepers here. People that just start out.


Oh okay. Well in that case I agree. The only answer I can really come up with is that they see an image of the T and think it looks nice, so they maybe read a few caresheets and then decide that that's all they need to be able to care for one. 

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## Storm76 (Feb 27, 2014)

BobGrill said:


> Oh okay. Well in that case I agree. The only answer I can really come up with is that they see an image of the T and think it looks nice, so they maybe read a few caresheets and then decide that that's all they need to be able to care for one.
> 
> Sent from my LG-P999 using Tapatalk 2


....without taking into account the venom potency
....without taking into account just how "fast" a "fast T" really moves
....realizing their in over their heads once the T is juvenile/adult and turns out to be defensive.

I' just don't get it why people risk that. Is that the mentality of "it's just a bug" when some start the hobby, or what? What I want to know really is if the coloration of a T is the only part keepers look at when starting the hobby?


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## azts (Feb 27, 2014)

Hello,

That depend of who want maintain these guy, if you are serious u can maintain defensive/ venonous T.

I start in the hobby like 18 month and i start with : P.metallica, C.Cyaneopubescens, Versicolor,  and some other calm T.


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## Storm76 (Feb 27, 2014)

azts said:


> Hello,
> 
> That depend of who want maintain these guy, if you are serious u can maintain defensive/ venonous T.
> 
> I start in the hobby like 18 month and i start with : P.metallica, C.Cyaneopubescens, Versicolor,  and some other calm T.


I'm not saying people can't - I'm saying it's "generally" not advised. If your confident and comfortable in dealing with them, then it's likely you won't have a problem if you've done your research. 

On another note: I would never count P. metallica towards "calm" T's  they're quite photo-sensitive and often very skittish.


So why did you have to have a P. metallica right away though? Coloration? Because that's like saying "I want a Ferrari because I love the color"


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## kevp (Feb 27, 2014)

I've gotta set this straight.. First of all hi to every1. 
I've kept arachnids of different sorts for a few years although new to arachnoboards.  I completely agree with storm76 it does seem that more and more newcomers to the hobby getting very fast aggressive t's from the get go.. I assume its like a bragging right to say "hey look what I've got!".. Without the true understanding of what they've let themselves in for and as a result they cannot possibly give the correct care when they havnt really got that understanding.
As a result this does end up with the person getting bitten, losing interest maybe.. Not providing the correct care to keep it alive let alone providing it with a happy life. Its the playing with a loaded gun attitude that's causing this I think and personaly its obvious to me that the only thing to suffer would be the ill gotten research neglected specimens collected by these let's face it.. Ignorant people who can't take advise.  This isn't directed at anyone in particular so please don't take offence..  All they need to do is take time and patients to research the t their interested in and what type ofcorse, old world and new world, arboreal and terrestrial and then with advice form experienced keepers make an informed decision.  This happens all over the world with all kinds of pets that people decide to keep on a whim.  We don't suffer... The critters do!

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## cold blood (Feb 27, 2014)

Storm76 said:


> So why did you have to have a P. metallica right away though? Coloration? Because that's like saying "I want a Ferrari because I love the color"


Lots of really bad drivers do exactly this.   Many owners of high powered cars cannot handle the capabilities of them.  I never understood that.

I agree though, I started with a rosea, over 12 years ago.  Then got a chaco last year, now a B. smithi sling recently.  I go probably much slower than most, but I have lots of experience with many different animals (and worked at a national zoo for over a decade), so I realize the importance of being ready, not because I think so, but because I KNOW for a fact that I have the experience and comfort level to handle it.  I certainly believe I have the experience for a pokie, but I am going to start with members of the psalmopeous genre, because I think there is no reason to jump right to the top of the food chain when there are soooo many excellent species that will prepare me even more for when I do finally get a pokie.  

I think things like you tube, allow people to see a lot of different species in action, often with idiots filming or owning them and people think, "well if that goofball can do it, I certainly can", or "well that looks super easy" and not taking into account the vast experience of the person involved in the vid.

Back to the car analogy, its similar here in the states in that if you can afford it, you will probably buy it just because you can, whether its the right choice of not....Some people gotta make an impression or show off

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## kevp (Feb 27, 2014)

cold blood said:


> I think things like you tube, allow people to see a lot of different species in action, often with idiots filming or owning them and people think, "well if that goofball can do it, I certainly can", or "well that looks super easy" and not taking into account the vast experience of the person involved in the vid.


 This indeed hasn't helped.. Some videos are posted from keepers who are vastly experienced in t keeping and offer loads of useful help and info, wether people listen is a different matter all together.  Shame


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## viper69 (Feb 27, 2014)

cold blood said:


> Many owners of high powered cars cannot handle the capabilities of them.  I never understood that.


Like that actor Paul Walker and his buddy when they were busy speeding in a car known to have serious performance issues even by expert drivers.



People are going to buy and own whatever they want/afford even if they have zero experience. I see plenty of first time owners buying a Poki.  I could care less if that person buys a T and ends up dead. They wanted that OW species, well you get what you asked for. Like anything else, know the risks.

Think you can free dive with great white sharks? Go for it! They get what they deserve, it's called survival of the fittest.

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## cold blood (Feb 27, 2014)

Or Justin Beiber with his rented yellow Lambo     Examples are so vast if they were all listed AB might crash with the trillions of bad drivers in fast cars being listed...rotfl


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## fyic (Feb 27, 2014)

I agree with Storm76 
But on some of your side notes

a) Go look/see the species you want first hand……..ya I think for most there is NO place near them that you can do that …….sure would be nice and I def think it would make a big difference to see them 1st hand and ya youtube can help and does help but also makes some think oh if they can I can bla bla 

b) YES do your research…..read, read, read, and then ask for help as needed

c) OK on this one …..I have to say I have seen many dealers hand out OBT & H.Mac for freebies…..I’m not saying any 1 dealer or any 1 from here……I’m just saying I have seen this happen

Example 1: This past summer I went to a few expo/shows and seen them hand them out like candy.....like one place had this game setup for $5 and if you got the ball in 1 cup you could win this nice $50 sling…if not you got a OBT or H.Mac slings 

Example 2: Search on craigslist and you find someone who thinks they are a T dealer just trying to make some cash and sell whatever they can 

But we all know most people will just do what they want


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## ParryOtter (Feb 27, 2014)

I wonder if it has to do with the nature of the hobby. I have noticed many people on various forums talking about their collections, and there often seems to be an element of "what can I get my hands on next." Not that it's a bad thing, but maybe some people are a little more interested in growing their collection than enjoying the Ts for their own sake?

I'm speaking as a newbie. I've had my G. rosea for 12 years and have just recently started to (seriously) investigate other types. I have nearly decided on a GBB because I'm drawn to the personality and habits. I want something different enough from my rosie but not something super high-maintenance. That said, I love animals and have cared for many types, so as long as the info is out there for me to learn I'm open because I know I can do whatever needs to be done.

I do wish there was more consistent information. It seems like while there's a general concurrence about what each species needs, jumping onto a forum you can find warring answers on the same thread. And when they are both experienced keepers, who do you believe? Just a pet peeve of mine. For example, I've been reading up on GBB care for weeks now. I am still paranoid about how to properly provide moisture for slings.  I've heard to dribble down the side once a week, spritz one side of the substrate, put a few drops on the webbing, or just let them get it from hydrated crickets.

This makes someone like myself very hesitant to go for it, because I don't want to risk harming my T. But for other personalities, maybe they see that as "well, I'll wing it since there doesn't seem to be a totally 'right' way. I'm capable." Just a thought? And then there's just arrogance and foolishness.

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## BobGrill (Feb 27, 2014)

Storm76 said:


> ....without taking into account the venom potency
> ....without taking into account just how "fast" a "fast T" really moves
> ....realizing their in over their heads once the T is juvenile/adult and turns out to be defensive.
> 
> I' just don't get it why people risk that. Is that the mentality of "it's just a bug" when some start the hobby, or what? What I want to know really is if the coloration of a T is the only part keepers look at when starting the hobby?


I guess they just figure they can handle it and end up underestimating their speed. 

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## cold blood (Feb 27, 2014)

Just like so many crashed ferrarris.


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## Livia (Feb 27, 2014)

Storm76 said:


> Hello everyone!
> 
> It might just be me, but I think over that last 6 months I've seen so many threads popping up in which new keepers a) either ask for advice on what species to get, or b) posting their newly acquired animals proudly. Both is completely fine and fully understandable. However, what escapes me are the amount of people that seemingly completely disregard advice given to "slow down", "wait some time", "not get T species X". Instead of being glad more experienced keepers answering their questions, givinng them 1st hand insight to their problem / question they get mad. At this point I'm starting to ask myself why are you making a thread then in the first place - if you actually don't care about anything said to you?
> 
> ...


 Sorry if this has already been said (too lazy to read comments) but I think that if you do enough research and are educated on how to care properly for the T you can start with almost any species you want. There is not a good beginner spider because all spiders have different personalitys and are unpredictable. I have a smithi that will bite the air.

---------- Post added 02-27-2014 at 06:49 PM ----------

Also in general we just need to educate people more before they buy.


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## kevp (Feb 27, 2014)

people can research which t they want until the cows come home.. But we all go into this not knowing if we ourselves are going to be alergic and suffer death from anaphylaxis. The risk is there even if u been bitten 1 time and had no reaction, doesn't mean that won't happen the second time. Some people jump off cliffs, some ride fast bikes. We keep the most facinating spiders in the world.  Go figure...

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## Oreo (Feb 27, 2014)

ParryOtter said:


> For example, I've been reading up on GBB care for weeks now. I am still paranoid about how to properly provide moisture for slings.  I've heard to dribble down the side once a week, spritz one side of the substrate, put a few drops on the webbing, or just let them get it from hydrated crickets.


Stop the paranoia! For slings, water half the the substrate so the other half is dry. You can spritz but don't spray your T. I'd suggest using a deli with a lid you can add holes to instead of worrying about how to modify other enclosures for humidity. If you're overly concerned, get a T that's an inch or more.  Leave it alone and enjoy your GBB

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## purevl (Feb 27, 2014)

I'm one of the new keepers that this thread could be about (not saying it is, just saying I fit the topic) & I understand exactly why some people get mad at replies like that.  After being out of the hobby for nearly 20 years (had a G. rosea growing up) I decided to get back in with 5 slings...A. versicolor, B. smithi, L. parahybana, P. regalis, & H. maculata.  And on my very first post about my Ts I got the expected, "You got WHAT?, you shouldn't have done that, you're gonna get bitten, etc, etc." comments.  For me, the reason comments like that anger me is because to make those comments it has to be assumed that I'm an idiot who doesn't know Ts or I didn't do research or I have no idea what I'm getting into, etc..  And that couldn't be farther from the truth.  I literally did months of research (TKG, the web, this forum, Jon3800 vids, etc., etc.) before deciding what species I wanted & I know full well the characteristics of each.  Some people will say that I don't know what I'm in for since I've never had one that fast.  Well, whether it's your first T or your fiftieth T...it's speed will be totally new & you won't know what you're in for.  Experience with slower Ts will not prepare you for the blazing speed of an H. mac since you've never had to deal with that speed.  The only way to get that experience is to keep one.  

Going to a vehicle analogy like Cold Blood used...I ride motorcycles & I learned how to ride on a 600cc crotch rocket.  I had never driven a dirt bike, never a cruiser, no smaller crotch rocket, nothing.  I had many people tell me it was too much bike for me & I needed to start on something smaller so I didn't get hurt or wreck the bike.  And you know what?  I learned how to ride it one afternoon with no problems at all.  Might it have been easier if I had experience on slower bikes?  Perhaps...but at the same time it could have made things worse.  Getting experience on a smaller bike could lead to issues of not realizing how much faster the new bike is than the old one & slamming into something by not expecting so much more torque/power/weight/whatever than I'm used to.  By starting off on the fast bike, I had no misconceptions about the speed & power, I knew it was going to be outrageous & took proper precautions.  It's the same with Ts.  Someone starting with a B. smithi who gets used to their typical placid, plodding nature might easily make the transition to a faster, more defensive species...but someone else, even tho they have experience, may be lulled into complacency & never be able to make the transition.

Now, as for answering the question of "Why?"  I would say there are a couple factors.  Looks certainly come into play...most OW species are undeniably gorgeous.  I'll freely admit that the first pokie I saw made my jaw drop & I instantly decided I needed to eventually get all of the species available in the hobby.  But at the same time, due to the advances in knowledge of Ts & the hobby & the existence of sites like this one...someone just starting isn't necessarily starting clueless.  When I got my first T in the mid 80s, the best book around was about 50 pages & much of what I learned in it has been turned on its head since then.  Someone starting now has decades of knowledge available to them that wasn't previously available.  

That's not to say that every new keeper will do their research.  I know enough not to ever expect that...lol  But, I would simply suggest that before telling someone how bad of a decision they made & that they'll get bitten...ask some questions & find out more about the person & situation first.  It may very well be that they were impetuous & went "Oooh pretty, I want" without learning anything & are setting themselves up for failure.  But it may also be that they did as much research as possible beforehand & are as prepared as a person can be until they actually get one.

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## Poec54 (Feb 27, 2014)

Livia said:


> I think that if you do enough research and are educated on how to care properly for the T you can start with almost any species you want.


That's been proven wrong many times in many different fields.  Online research in no way prepares you for have a fast, aggitated T with strong venom running around your room or up your arm.  That's when people soil their underwear.  Just as you cannot learn how to drive, or swim, from online research.

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## Keith B (Feb 27, 2014)

There are some that get hot Ts without researching much at all, and that's just awful.  While it's admirable that some do their research before they acquire these Ts first, most don't, and the ones that do (whether they admit to it or not) often find something they've missed, because there is SOOO much pre-emptive knowledge to be had, that it's practically impossible to predict every situation.  While we have a poster here with somewhat of a success story starting out this way, in most scenarios something goes wrong.  Some have lost a T or multiple Ts entirely to escapes.. Some transfer them like they can just walk them into another container, and suddenly find them running up their arm, and flinging them across the room, then laughing about it later on the forums cause they and the T were okay, and we don't find it funny at all..because it could've easily gone much worse.  

I also see a surprising amount of people transferring in a wide open kitchen, like a sink is going to hold a T for more than .2 seconds.  There's been quite a few lost Ts in kitchen transfers.  We caution and frown upon this stuff because it goes wrong much more often than it doesn't, and the people who have decades of experience keeping these animals have grown to value every single solitary tarantulas life, and also try to protect the hobby vigorously from a bad mishap that the media gets a hold of.  All it takes is one sometimes.  People are much more willing to accept negative information about spiders than they ever will be positive.  

So it's not to say that someone can't have success starting out with a hot species, there's just way too much at stake not to scold everyone that does.  It will take way too much time on the threads to drill a person individually for personal T knowledge and intelligence, which is why this way is easier lol.  Some of these beginners that are starting out with these Ts are VERY young, and still live with their parents.  Even if the kid goes to the hospital and still loves his T, his parents may feel otherwise and start spewing venom to the world.  It's just a "better safe than sorry" situation to caution beginners against making brash decisions, because they are usually followed immediately by more brash decisions.  (I just lost my OBT, time to order a replacement!  I just flung my pokie across the room.. ooh this other pokie looks sweet too! Ordered!)

I took my good old time moving on to faster tarantulas.  It's easy enough to underestimate even the intermediate and beginner species sometimes.  My only escape was my LP, which ran right up the wall when attempting to pack, and FAST.  I didn't lose him.  It wasn't hard to find an 8" mature male on the wall lol, but a spider that big should never be 5' up a wall.  I was horrified for his life until I got him corralled.  Sometimes even an experienced keeper can get duped by a T.  But we remain calm in these situations and learn from them.  It's preferable to have learning experiences from minor situations rather than utter disasters IMO.  If the T could potentially die from improper care, improper handling, or escape (will surely kill it if not found), that's total disaster in my eyes.

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## purevl (Feb 27, 2014)

Poec54 said:


> That's been proven wrong many times in many different fields.  Online research in no way prepares you for have a fast, aggitated T with strong venom running around your room or up your arm.  That's when people soil their underwear.  Just as you cannot learn how to drive, or swim, from online research.


The point I'm trying to make is that I've learned everything I can without actually having one.  If you can tell me a way to get experience with a fast, agitated T without actually having one I'd like to hear it.  I could own a B. smithi for 10 years & still not be prepared for a fast, agitated T simply because a B. smithi isn't (generally) a fast T.  You say I can't learn to drive or swim from online research...and that's true.  But when learning to drive, as long as you are careful & are as prepared as possible without actually having driven, you don't have to start with the slowest thing around (see my story about learning to ride a motorcycle).

Plus...  Research in no way prepares someone for a strong, fast, (sometimes) aggressive Rottweiler/Husky/Shepherd/Insert-any-large-dog-here running around your room.  That's when people soil their underwear.  Would you suggest someone start with a poodle because they're unprepared for the other?  




Keith B said:


> I also see a surprising amount of people transferring in a wide open kitchen, like a sink is going to hold a T for more than .2 seconds.  There's been quite a few lost Ts in kitchen transfers.  We caution and frown upon this stuff because it goes wrong much more often than it doesn't


I agree that transferring in a kitchen is a bad idea, I unboxed all mine in the tub like is best practice.  But I'm curious why you think it goes wrong much more often than it doesn't.  Do you have numbers or are you going by reports on here of people who tried it that way & had a problem?  If so, of course it happens more often...people don't post about all the times it works right, you only hear about the problem times.  Kind of like you hear about the occasional plane crash since it's news but you don't hear about the thousands of flights that happen without a hitch.  I'm not trying to be rude or sarcastic, I'm honestly curious if there are statistics or if you're just going by anecdotes.

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## Livia (Feb 27, 2014)

Poec54 said:


> That's been proven wrong many times in many different fields.  Online research in no way prepares you for have a fast, aggitated T with strong venom running around your room or up your arm.  That's when people soil their underwear.  Just as you cannot learn how to drive, or swim, from online research.


 The problem I have with that is yall keep mentioning speed. How are you going to react any differently getting a T after 20 years running up your arm that a person getting there 5th or 6th T

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## SeanSYW (Feb 27, 2014)

You probably won't be as (emphasizing on the "as") nervous and you probably won't freak out and start to try to grab the T with your hands, or something to that extent. That is if you have more experience. Plus you would have picked up a few neat tricks of how to deal with a certain situation over the years.  Not to say that I can qualify myself as an "experienced" person or anything, but I can see where the years of first hand experience could come in handy.


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## Livia (Feb 27, 2014)

SeanSYW said:


> You probably won't be as (emphasizing on the "as") nervous and you probably won't freak out and start to try to grab the T with your hands, or something to that extent. That is if you have more experience. Plus you would have picked up a few neat tricks of how to deal with a certain situation over the years.  Not to say that I can qualify myself as an "experienced" person or anything, but I can see where the years of first hand experience could come in handy.


I mean grantid im not going to tell someone to get an OBT as their first T but damn, If someone even has a little expierence they most likely wont through a T accross a room.

---------- Post added 02-27-2014 at 10:59 PM ----------

You also cant expect someone to gain experience if they are presumed to not be able to handle getting any experience.


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## freedumbdclxvi (Feb 27, 2014)

Livia said:


> The problem I have with that is yall keep mentioning speed. How are you going to react any differently getting a T after 20 years running up your arm that a person getting there 5th or 6th T


Because you will have experienced many situations of a spider bolting.  Imagine doing spot cleaning "hot" inside a large OW arboreal's enclosure, and the spider bursts out of tunnel you didn't know it had dug.  Experience will help you to remain still as that spider leaps out and runs up you and leaps to freedom.  Lack of experience leads to sudden movements that spook an already spooked animal that will then go defensive.  

And speed.  We keep mentioning speed because you won't know it til you see it.  You can't read online how fast a spider is to prepare you for it in person.  You can only experience it.

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## cold blood (Feb 27, 2014)

purevl said:


> The point I'm trying to make is that I've learned everything I can without actually having one.  If you can tell me a way to get experience with a fast, agitated T without actually having one I'd like to hear it.  I could own a B. smithi for 10 years & still not be prepared for a fast, agitated T simply because a B. smithi isn't (generally) a fast T.  You say I can't learn to drive or swim from online research...and that's true.  But when learning to drive, as long as you are careful & are as prepared as possible without actually having driven, you don't have to start with the slowest thing around (see my story about learning to ride a motorcycle).
> 
> Plus...  Research in no way prepares someone for a strong, fast, (sometimes) aggressive Rottweiler/Husky/Shepherd/Insert-any-large-dog-here running around your room.  That's when people soil their underwear.  Would you suggest someone start with a poodle because they're unprepared for the other?


A B. smithi isn't a fast t and therefore not one that would prepare you for one.  But there are t's that are.  You can get taps, which are lightning fast, but lack the risk of both aggression and potent venom.  You can get plalmos to prepare you for a fast, defensive arboreal, without the medically significant venom should one run up your arm or onto your face (as I have seen vids showing).  You can get a GBB to prepare for the quickness of terrestrial species with attitude.  There are over 900 species of tarantula, with something like over 300 available in the hobby, that's A LOT of stepping stones available.

You wouldn't take your drivers test with a 500hp ferrarri with a zero slip clutch and the flappy paddle gearbox, it would be much smarter to take a Honda Accord.  Safer, with less risk for one without the proper driving experience.

And the standard poodle is badass.  Don't let the goofy haircuts fool you, they are strong hunting dogs!   A standard poodle, lab, or golden are among dogs that would prepare you for an aggressive breed without nearly the risks.  Same thing applies, and there are also way too many dog owners that fail to realize this and end up with all kinds of issues that they can't control because they have no idea how, just because they thought a certain breed "looked cool" or impressed them at the park.  End result is either a dog put down or given up (often repeatedly), its stupid how many dogs are given up and sitting in shelters because of this!   But no, you got $100, you can get a poorly bred pit, even if your 15 and never been around one before.

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## freedumbdclxvi (Feb 27, 2014)

Livia said:


> I mean grantid im not going to tell someone to get an OBT as their first T but damn, If someone even has a little expierence they most likely wont through a T accross a room.


Many a post has been made of people with"a little experience" throwing a spider.



> You also cant expect someone to gain experience if they are presumed to not be able to handle getting any experience.


No but you get it in stages.  Slow terrestrials to slow arboreals to faster new world arboreals to ow baboons to ow arboreals/fossorials.

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## viper69 (Feb 27, 2014)

ParryOtter said:


> there often seems to be an element of "what can I get my hands on next." Not that it's a bad thing, but maybe some people are a little more interested in growing their collection than enjoying the Ts for their own sake?


I don't think that's any different than people who collect anything-- be it plants or Barbie Dolls.

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## CitizenNumber9 (Feb 27, 2014)

If anything, all of the psychotic bantering and scolding and scare tactics have made me MORE likely to flinch and throw my T than I was before. The one thing that I remember subconsciously is that if the creature cannot kill me, preventing a bite isn't more important than not risking the animal's well being.


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## SeanSYW (Feb 27, 2014)

Livia said:


> I mean grantid im not going to tell someone to get an OBT as their first T but damn, If someone even has a little expierence they most likely wont through a T accross a room.
> 
> ---------- Post added 02-27-2014 at 10:59 PM ----------
> 
> You also cant expect someone to gain experience if they are presumed to not be able to handle getting any experience.


The spider doesn't have to be thrown for one of the two to get hurt, plus fear and anxiety can make you do irrational things.

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## viper69 (Feb 27, 2014)

Livia said:


> Sorry if this has already been said (too lazy to read comments) but I think that if you do enough research and are educated on how to care properly for the T you can start with almost any species you want. There is not a good beginner spider because all spiders have different personalitys and are unpredictable. I have a smithi that will bite the air.
> 
> ---------- Post added 02-27-2014 at 06:49 PM ----------
> 
> Also in general we just need to educate people more before they buy.



There are not good beginner species at all? Certainly while each T is unique and may be docile, while another of the same species might be mean as can be, there are GENERAL behaviors for a given species, just like there are for Dogs.

For example, while Euathlus sp. Yellow/sp Red are known to be EXTREMELY docile, I'm sure there's a mean one out there few would want. Just like an OBT is known to be a T that will bite without hesitation, I'm sure there's a docile one out there. Nature has exceptions to every rule.

But your idea that because there are exceptions and thus there is not a good beginner T, is not based in fact by the overwhelming majority of many decades worth of observation of many species.



Livia said:


> I mean grantid im not going to tell someone to get an OBT as their first T



Why wouldn't you recommend an OBT as their first T?? You wrote above there is not a good beginner T. So w/that logic, any T is suitable for a person's first T.  I'm confused by your glaring contradiction.

---------- Post added 02-27-2014 at 07:33 PM ----------




CitizenNumber9 said:


> If anything, all of the psychotic bantering and scolding and scare tactics have made me MORE likely to flinch and throw my T than I was before.


You just need to free dive with some Great Whites, and those OW Ts will be cupcakes !

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## SpiritScale (Feb 27, 2014)

I'm still a newbie with only 6 months of T experience under my belt. 
I *cannot* fathom *why* anyone who was new would go out and get something like a Pokie etc. 

It's absolutely true that in six months I've acquired 14 tarantulas (12/14 were slings), so yes I 'went fast'. 
However, *all* of my collection is New World and 99% is terrestrial (the exception being the A. avicularia), I started with slings to 'grow into' each spider and to get a hang of raising slings. 
I tend to get all the members of a particular genus that I like as I find it helps me get different levels of experience as there are often different 'notes' within a general overall 'flavour' of a genus (i.e B. vagans vs B. emilia). I went 'one level at a time' from Brachypelmas and Grammastolas to Acanthoscurria and Lasidora. I then picked up Nhandus and Chromatopelma cyaneopubscens, (I went backwards a bit and picked up an Euathlus sp. red as well ). I also picked up my A. avicularia to start experiencing arboreals. 

I do it that way because I am not stupid, nor am I foolish, nor am I overconfident nor do I think myself bulletproof. 
I also realize that if I bite off more than I can chew, there is consequences for me, the spider not to mention the people and other animals around me.  
That pokie/OBT etc etc bolts and gets loose... it's a bite risk to me, my other animals AND my roommates (or gods forbid the next door neighbours across the hall). I have also seen the inside of my local ER quite enough as it is thank you, and I have no interest in going back, so the threat of a pokie bite is very real and not to be taken lightly. 

It is irresponsible and foolish to think that one can just 'read up on the species' and that preps you. It doesn't. It would be as foolish as a newbie going out and buying a reticulated python. By thinking that it does, you put yourself, those around you and the hobby at risk. You don't want to be 'that person with the killer spiders who keep getting loose' that suddenly becomes the cause of bans, restrictions or any other sort of bad press. 
It is equally moronic to get an OW or advanced NW (tappies etc) just because it looks cool, or because you get some sort of rush from being a bad ass and having this extremely difficult/relatively dangerous animal. You get those animals when you are equipped to handle them, experienced enough to deal with their downsides, know what they entail and as a payoff can enjoy an interesting/beautiful specimen. 

No, I don't care what you saw some fool on youtube doing. No, just because they make it look easy or get away with handling XYZ or stopped XYZ from escaping doesn't mean you can. Don't overestimate yourself.

As a final note, personally I also want the hobby to be enjoyable for me. 
Which is why, despite all the vast amounts of beautiful OW species I stay away. Even if I had the reaction time, the reflexes and the experience I would not (probably) ever keep them. Even if as a newbie you could manage to corral the adult OBT by sweating bullets and dumb luck...why do that to yourself?

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## Poec54 (Feb 27, 2014)

purevl said:


> The point I'm trying to make is that I've learned everything I can without actually having one.  If you can tell me a way to get experience with a fast, agitated T without actually having one I'd like to hear it.


The advice that's been given for years: by taking it in stages and gradually working your way up: docile/slow NW terrestrials, fast NW terrestrials, high-strung NW terrestrials, NW arboreals (starting with Avics and then to Psalmos), OW terrestrials, and finally OW arboreals.  Going from B smithi to P murinus is a big leap in skill level.

Too many people think that 'virtual' is just like reality, and that reading is a substitute for hands-on experience.

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## ParryOtter (Feb 28, 2014)

viper69 said:


> I don't think that's any different than people who collect anything-- be it plants or Barbie Dolls.


I agree, I was just saying it doesn't seem like the best attitude to have when dealing with actual creatures rather than things to be acquired. Maybe that "gotta have it" mindset is what drives some newbies to overstep, because they are focusing on the addition to their collection rather than respecting and investigating the creature as an individual that will be in their care.

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## Keith B (Feb 28, 2014)

As said there's been plenty of threads on here where a beginner has fessed up to throwing a spider In panic.  Also it's silly to bias "anecdotal reporting" to simply favor a new keeper raising advanced slings/keeping advanced adults.  You can argue that people don't report when re housing goes well, when in fact they're often on here boasting their new acquisitions when it does. Why wouldn't they?  So on the other end of the spectrum, why would every new keeper that lost or threw or even killed a spider in a mishap report it on here out of sheer embarassment?  The argument goes both ways.

I personally appreciate those that DO actually report mishaps in re housing fast Ts that they went out and got on impulse.  It takes a lot of guts. They know they're going to take a bit of a thrashing, but it's the responsible thing to do to hopefully  prevent it from happening to somebody else.  There's a wonderful selection of tarantulas available out there, that allow us to gradually gain experience with the speed and not panic when dealing with it, and learn the best ways to keep it contained.  It's wise to take advantage.  I had moved on to faster T's already when I underestimated my LP.  When he went up the wall at high speed I calmly backed out of his way, made no attempt to obstruct his path and knock him off the wall.  How it happened was he was calmly walking into the container one second, then changed his mind, and when I blocked his path he immediately burst past the tongs, up the side of the aquarium, the one next to it, and onto the wall and up.  He was much faster than I expected but not my fastest T.   While I didn't expect him to do that I still was prepared with everything I needed. I placed a large aquarium net over him, and while he hated that, the risk of a fall was eliminated.  

He was always super skittish. When he was 3" I tried to coax him and he reacted by running up the side, on to my hand, up my arm and onto my back, and pooped on my back.. lol.. but this is just an LP showing impressive speed.  Nothing like these advanced species.  In case that would happen, I was sitting low already with the enclosure on the floor.  I didn't panic at all. Calmly waited for him to walk onto the floor and cupped him.  Cupping him on my skin might provoke a bite.  This incident may have caused a new keeper a lot of panic along with the possible lack of material prep.  A new keeper doesn't have the experience to know it, but I have the experience to know I'd much rather learn how to react to a GBB running towards my face, before it's a 9" Poecilotheria..

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## bscheidt1020 (Feb 28, 2014)

Hey guys, I am one of the new tarantula owners that has started my venture into this hobby with a few species that would not be recommended for beginners including Hmac, P. Regalis, and P. Murinus, as well as P. Irminia. I think this covers the fastest and most defensive of my current collection. I certainly understand the thought behind the original post here, that beginners ought not dive into this hobby with species that will be dangerous because the animal and the hobby will suffer in the end. I would like to support the point that some have made, both in and outside of this thread that the risk behind this decision is largely dependent on the owner. Some are impulsive and not equipped to deal with certain species off the bat. Others, I do think can handle these spiders with minimal to no experience. I am one person that researched thoroughly the species I meant to acquire and while that is no substitute for experience, it does provide a foundation of understanding of the creatures and the associated risks. I also tend to deal with my spiders with the utmost respect for their capabilities, full well knowing that their fear of me is what is most likely to cause a disaster. I cannot guarantee that I will not be bit and I stay humble about my abilities and focused on the task at hand when I tend my spiders. In regard to the idea that naive newbies are likely to be bit, that seems true, but also I have seen many bite reports from experienced keepers that admitted their complacency led to a bite. This is an example of how the experience of a keeper and the routine nature of dealing with so many spiders for so long can create a dangerous situation. Finally, in response to the idea that some get these OW's to boast or brag, I can't speak for everyone, but I have no friends in the arachnohobby, and the only people I can talk to about spiders are on this forum…My interest in owning these spiders is out of my own interest in them and their unique behaviors. I am committed to these spiders for their lifespans and I bought all of them as small slings so I could enjoy raising them and watching them grow and also to give myself time to adjust to their habits before they become 6"+ agro-beasts! I do not mean to defend the idea of beginners starting with OW's I just mean to make the point that the appropriateness of the decision should be viewed on a case by case basis and all who choose to start with some advanced species should not be shunned as naive, immature, or irresponsible. Don't worry though, if I get bit by a spider I will be sure to post about it so everyone can give me a good thorough lecture…haha..no hard feelings. Thanks for reading!

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## oooo35980 (Feb 28, 2014)

Well, here is my experience. A couple months after I started keeping Ts I had a chance to buy a big OBT, so I did. Upon rehousing her she bolted out of the enclosure, I grabbed a catch cup, rounded her up, and put her back in.  It wasn't rocket science getting her back in, it took a little while because every time I got her out in the open and the cup almost over her she'd bolt out from under it back under the table. So I got a wider cup, simple.

Now I personally know plenty of people who I wouldn't trust with an actual pet rock, if my brother in law told me he'd just gotten a big pokie or an OBT I'd be very worried. There also exist plenty of people who've faced far worse than a big African tarantula, who are meticulous and cautious, and who have the nerve not to sling a T across the room if it tags them. 

It's the keepers job to know what he or she can handle, there are plenty of resources, from forums to care sheets to youtube, for aspiring keepers to find out all they want to know about whatever T they're planning to get. Constantly pointing out to everyone who asks a question about OW Ts that you don't feel they're experienced enough to handle it is at best pointless, and at worst counterproductive as it will discourage questions.

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## kevp (Feb 28, 2014)

CitizenNumber9 said:


> If anything, all of the psychotic bantering and scolding and scare tactics have made me MORE likely to flinch and throw my T than I was before. The one thing that I remember subconsciously is that if the creature cannot kill me, preventing a bite isn't more important than not risking the animal's well being.


 Proventing that bite is as important to us or should as the importance of not throwing the thing across the room. Like I said earlier anaphylaxis can kill us all.  But we go into this knowing that.  My rules of thumb is be slow calm and purposeful. You cannot afford to be scared of what you keep.. That nervousnes will get u bitten or end up with a dead or escaped  t, leaving you disheartend and feeling uneasy about providing care.   At the end of the day the only way we can solve this problem is for dealers to means test their customers. Ie.. No obt, pokies or simular for newbies.. Easy!  we do this with vemonous snakes so why not t's. The risk is the same, ok the vemon isn't but the theory is.

My stupidity got me bitten.. That was enough! I never want to get bitten by a p formosa again.. I wished i was dead.. But I've stil got her and were both happy together lol!

I've also got a female 6 inch obt that is very very gental and calm. She does nothing.. maybe a threat posture once since I've had her. this shows that their not all evil but I stil wouldnt take that chance with her. Experience is everything but that doesn't stop a t being a t. All my other t's are new world species.

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## Poec54 (Feb 28, 2014)

bscheidt1020 said:


> I am one of the new tarantula owners that has started my venture into this hobby with a few species that would not be recommended for beginners including Hmac, P. Regalis, and P. Murinus, as well as P. Irminia. I think this covers the fastest and most defensive of my current collection. I certainly understand the thought behind the original post here, that beginners ought not dive into this hobby with species that will be dangerous because the animal and the hobby will suffer in the end. I would like to support the point that some have made, both in and outside of this thread that the risk behind this decision is largely dependent on the owner.


Agreed.  There are some that can start of with advanced species and not have problems.  But for every one of those success stories, there are probably ten that things go badly for.  We can't know everyone's skill level, and how fast they'll learn.  All we can do is listen to what they say and see if they jumped in the deep end too fast for their abilities, and nerves.  Some things are red flags.  Whether it's a lack of research up front or egos, some people are determined to start off species they're not able to deal with, especially as they grow.  I remember a newbie posting here last year that Poecs were easy for anyone to work with, because in the month he'd had his regalis sling, everything had gone well.

---------- Post added 02-28-2014 at 06:14 AM ----------




kevp said:


> we do this with vemonous snakes so why not t's.


I had T's for years before I got my first OW.  I got my first T 40 years ago, and 20 years ago got my first Poec.  Also in the middle of that I had a large collection of cobras.  Coming from that perspective, OW T's are easy for me.  For someone younger getting a first T, OW's are usually, but not always, a poor idea.

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## Wildenthusiast (Feb 28, 2014)

I have to say, purevl, that you made some valid arguments. And its possible that you may be the exception to the rule. But in reading the following posts, I was reminded of when I first began keeping T's. Like you, I had done tons of research. Also had significant experience with many other types of exotics. I did feel prepared for all situations. Still, when it came time to rehouse my first fast moving species, my hands shook pretty bad. No doubt its alarming for the spider to have the vial/cup/whathaveyou its in shaking uncontrollably. Never lead to an escape, but I think I got lucky. Over time, I grew much more comfortable. Like was mentioned Poec54, after a few bolts I gained familiarity with the occurrence. Having that happen with NW's as opposed to OW's without actual experience would definitely be preferable.  

All that said, I do think that YOU respect the spiders and their abilities enough, and no doubt you've done your homework. Good on you for that. Chances are you'll take every precaution, and be prepared for the inevitable when it happens.


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## Formerphobe (Feb 28, 2014)

We live in an age of impatience, instant gratification, easy access, no self-discipline, No Child Left Behind, in some cases parental over-permissiveness, and no common sense - all of which contribute to armchair/internet 'experts' or instant 'experienced' keepers.  Some people see-want-get without the research or consideration that goes into the long term commitment of a long lived animal.  Granted, there are some individuals who are 'naturals' and, after considerable research, are capable of starting out with more challenging species.  I daresay those are few and far between.  And many who choose to see themselves as 'naturals' or 'experienced', are truly not.  It's good to have a high opinion of yourself, but be realistic...  

If you have to ask on a public forum if you are ready for an advanced species, you are not.
If you have to ask on a public forum what species to get because you don't know your own mind, you probably don't need any until you learn to do your own homework.
If you have to ask on a public forum if you are in over your head, you probably are.
If you are boasting on a public forum that you went from zero to 100 tarantulas over a six month period, I can probably show you someone who won't be in the hobby very long.
If you are boasting on a public forum that you've been bitten repeatedly by all 5 of your known-for-their-docility NW species and you think you're now ready for an OW, I can show you, well, an idiot.



> Too many people think that 'virtual' is just like reality, and that reading is a substitute for hands-on experience.


 Well said, Poec.  The internet, while tremendously beneficial to the hobby, has also created some monsters.

Disclaimer: I'm not speaking to or about anyone in particular, so don't anyone take anything personally.  However, if the shoe fits...

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## BobGrill (Feb 28, 2014)

Formerphobe said:


> We live in an age of impatience, instant gratification, easy access, no self-discipline, No Child Left Behind, in some cases parental over-permissiveness, and no common sense - all of which contribute to armchair/internet 'experts' or instant 'experienced' keepers.  Some people see-want-get without the research or consideration that goes into the long term commitment of a long lived animal.  Granted, there are some individuals who are 'naturals' and, after considerable research, are capable of starting out with more challenging species.  I daresay those are few and far between.  And many who choose to see themselves as 'naturals' or 'experienced', are truly not.  It's good to have a high opinion of yourself, but be realistic...
> 
> If you have to ask on a public forum if you are ready for an advanced species, you are not.
> If you have to ask on a public forum what species to get because you don't know your own mind, you probably don't need any until you learn to do your own homework.
> ...


I can't agree with this entirely. I don't see what's wrong with asking what species you should get. If say you have done research but just can't decide between two species and you just want someone to help you decide. It happens to me all the time.

Sent from my LG-P999 using Tapatalk 2


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## Shrike (Feb 28, 2014)

Livia said:


> Sorry if this has already been said (too lazy to read comments) but I think that if you do enough research and are educated on how to care properly for the T you can start with almost any species you want. There is not a good beginner spider because all spiders have different personalitys and are unpredictable. I have a smithi that will bite the air.


I respectfully disagree.  There's a huge difference between an irate B. smithi and a P. murinus, S. calceatum, H. maculata, or other similarly speedy, defensive species.

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## Formerphobe (Feb 28, 2014)

BobGrill said:


> I can't agree with this entirely. I don't see what's wrong with asking what species you should get. If say you have done research but just can't decide between two species and you just want someone to help you decide. It happens to me all the time.
> 
> Sent from my LG-P999 using Tapatalk 2


Well, I see that as the indecisive part of a Golden Retriever personality.  It's also a bit passive/aggressive.  If someone picks the 'wrong' tarantula (for whatever reason...) based on someone else's recommendations, then the other party is 'to blame' for the 'wrong' decision.  Especially if one is ordering tarantulas online, it is ultimately cheaper to spread out the shipping and go ahead and get two or more species/spiders under one shipping fee.  Or, if one is the absolute limit, and the choices are comparable, flip a coin or draw straws.


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## Poec54 (Feb 28, 2014)

Formerphobe said:


> We live in an age of impatience, instant gratification, easy access, no self-discipline, No Child Left Behind, in some cases parental over-permissiveness, and no common sense - all of which contribute to armchair/internet 'experts' or instant 'experienced' keepers.  Some people see-want-get without the research or consideration that goes into the long term commitment of a long lived animal.  Granted, there are some individuals who are 'naturals' and, after considerable research, are capable of starting out with more challenging species.  I daresay those are few and far between.  And many who choose to see themselves as 'naturals' or 'experienced', are truly not.  It's good to have a high opinion of yourself, but be realistic...


Thank you, you said it better than I did.


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## viper69 (Feb 28, 2014)

Formerphobe said:


> If you are boasting on a public forum that you've been bitten repeatedly by all 5 of your known-for-their-docility NW species and you think you're now ready for an OW, I can show you, well, an idiot.


Hilarious and TRUE IMO.

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## Storm76 (Feb 28, 2014)

Oreo said:


> Stop the paranoia! For slings, water half the the substrate so the other half is dry. You can spritz but don't spray your T. I'd suggest using a deli with a lid you can add holes to instead of worrying about how to modify other enclosures for humidity. If you're overly concerned, get a T that's an inch or more.  Leave it alone and enjoy your GBB


GBB, even as slings like it dry. A few droplets into their webbing - that's it! Too much moisture will be detremental to a GBB. Just saying...



Poec54 said:


> Online research in no way prepares you for have a fast, aggitated T with strong venom running around your room or up your arm.  That's when people soil their underwear.  Just as you cannot learn how to drive, or swim, from online research.


Amen!



Keith B said:


> It's easy enough to underestimate even the intermediate and beginner species sometimes.  My only escape was my LP, which ran right up the wall when attempting to pack, and FAST.  I didn't lose him.  It wasn't hard to find an 8" mature male on the wall lol, but a spider that big should never be 5' up a wall.  I was horrified for his life until I got him corralled.  Sometimes even an experienced keeper can get duped by a T.  But we remain calm in these situations and learn from them.  It's preferable to have learning experiences from minor situations rather than utter disasters IMO.  If the T could potentially die from improper care, improper handling, or escape (will surely kill it if not found), that's total disaster in my eyes.


And again - amen!



freedumbdclxvi said:


> Because you will have experienced many situations of a spider bolting.  Imagine doing spot cleaning "hot" inside a large OW arboreal's enclosure, and the spider bursts out of tunnel you didn't know it had dug.  Experience will help you to remain still as that spider leaps out and runs up you and leaps to freedom.  Lack of experience leads to sudden movements that spook an already spooked animal that will then go defensive.
> And speed.  We keep mentioning speed because you won't know it til you see it.  You can't read online how fast a spider is to prepare you for it in person.  You can only experience it.





Poec54 said:


> The advice that's been given for years: by taking it in stages and gradually working your way up: docile/slow NW terrestrials, fast NW terrestrials, high-strung NW terrestrials, NW arboreals (starting with Avics and then to Psalmos), OW terrestrials, and finally OW arboreals.  Going from B smithi to P murinus is a big leap in skill level. Too many people think that 'virtual' is just like reality, and that reading is a substitute for hands-on experience.


This is what I see people not being able to understand. Sure, seing a T run on TV or YT doesn't look that bad. A Cobra trying to bite you is rather slow, too? You couldn't be wrong any more. The fact is that in reality, a lot of that just looks like a blur to the human eye and your reflexes, not being used to that, won't help you from the getgo. It's something that can be trained somewhat, but would you rather train with something that can't really harm you, or with something that will put you into the hospital (or at least into a very unpleasant, painful, state)? By common-sense you would chose what cannot harm you really. 



ParryOtter said:


> I agree, I was just saying it doesn't seem like the best attitude to have when dealing with actual creatures rather than things to be acquired. Maybe that "gotta have it" mindset is what drives some newbies to overstep, because they are focusing on the addition to their collection rather than respecting and investigating the creature as an individual that will be in their care.


Most likely. But as mentioned before that are also some "naturals" out there. However, being the internet and not knowing the person on the other end, it's a guessing game. Do I want to be responsible for someone getting bitten only to tell the person later "your fault - you shouldn't have (enter reason here)" ? As a resonsible keeper I feel I'm also responsible for giving out sound advice, not some ego-attitude-mix to someone that is just trying to learn and telling them afterwards "you failed" beween the lines.



Poec54 said:


> Agreed.  There are some that can start of with advanced species and not have problems.  But for every one of those success stories, there are probably ten that things go badly for.  We can't know everyone's skill level, and how fast they'll learn.  All we can do is listen to what they say and see if they jumped in the deep end too fast for their abilities, and nerves.  Some things are red flags.  Whether it's a lack of research up front or egos, some people are determined to start off species they're not able to deal with, especially as they grow.  I remember a newbie posting here last year that Poecs were easy for anyone to work with, because in the month he'd had his regalis sling, everything had gone well.
> 
> I had T's for years before I got my first OW.  I got my first T 40 years ago, and 20 years ago got my first Poec.  Also in the middle of that I had a large collection of cobras.  Coming from that perspective, OW T's are easy for me.  For someone younger getting a first T, OW's are usually, but not always, a poor idea.


Once again, amen Poec! Well said.



Formerphobe said:


> We live in an age of impatience, instant gratification, easy access, no self-discipline, No Child Left Behind, in some cases parental over-permissiveness, and no common sense - all of which contribute to armchair/internet 'experts' or instant 'experienced' keepers.  Some people see-want-get without the research or consideration that goes into the long term commitment of a long lived animal.  Granted, there are some individuals who are 'naturals' and, after considerable research, are capable of starting out with more challenging species.  I daresay those are few and far between.  And many who choose to see themselves as 'naturals' or 'experienced', are truly not.  It's good to have a high opinion of yourself, but be realistic...


I think we've read enough posts on here or otherwise to see our assumptions often confirmed. Sadly, I should mention.



Shrike said:


> I respectfully disagree.  There's a huge difference between an irate B. smithi and a P. murinus, S. calceatum, H. maculata, or other similarly speedy, defensive species.


True! Except for the B. smithi and P. murinus the rest are generally arboreal!  *goes to hide*

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## GSA8 (Feb 28, 2014)

Unfortunately, this is a topic that is regularly brought up in most animal hobbyist groups (especially when advanced-husbandry/large/venomous species are involved).  Part of the problem is that people don't respect animals enough, they don't do the research specific to the animal they are looking to keep, and they don't have the patience to try something less challenging and work their way up to the more advanced.
  Another issue is the amount of misinformation on the web, spread by the same hobbyists that have the "I've had xyz species for abc short amount of time, and because I have never encountered an issue, that makes it acceptable for me to spread misinformation" mindset.  I remember recently reading a "top 10 T's for beginners" blog, and P murinus was listed!  A fast, defensive species with potent venom is not a beginner species IMO, but how many people do you think read that and bought a P murinus?

I think Formerphobe nailed it.



Formerphobe said:


> We live in an age of impatience, instant gratification, easy access, no self-discipline, No Child Left Behind, in some cases parental over-permissiveness, and no common sense - all of which contribute to armchair/internet 'experts' or instant 'experienced' keepers.  Some people see-want-get without the research or consideration that goes into the long term commitment of a long lived animal.  Granted, there are some individuals who are 'naturals' and, after considerable research, are capable of starting out with more challenging species.  I daresay those are few and far between.  And many who choose to see themselves as 'naturals' or 'experienced', are truly not.  It's good to have a high opinion of yourself, but be realistic...

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## Storm76 (Feb 28, 2014)

The thing with P. murinus completely escapes me anyways. I see a lot of people suggesting them to newbie keepers - apparently without even giving it a moments thought that those keepers could have a hell of a time (literally) if they aren't prepared for that kind of tarantula! And I'm going to say - as a newbie - you simply aren't! I don't care how "hardy" they are, I don't care that you could probably house them on glass shards (joking!) that fact is that it's a very venomous species that is usually high-strung, lots of attitude and also capable of extreme speed in comparison to your standard Brachy or Grammo that doesn't really WANT to run at all usually. In that regard, I think it's not only the new keeper, but also the long-time hobbyists that needs to think about the advice they give out. (Not talking about anyone in particular - mind you! Just generally speaking!) 

Then there is the "free spiderling" thing, too. Well, can do really anything about that, except suggest not to give away the OW slings to people they don't yet know well enough. That is wishful thinking, admitted.

Either way, the fact that I see it in certain german forums how many people are seriously stupid enough to ask "What T should I get first - want to impress my bros" and stuff...it's amazing how those people are actually avoiding to get bitten but I guess there's the thing: The "thrill". For gods sake these are living animals that should be treated wtih respect and as a hobbyists, we keep them to admire them, to watch them, even learn about them. We don't keep them because we want to impress someone - else I'm saying you picked the wrong hobby.

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## bscheidt1020 (Feb 28, 2014)

Formerphobe,
I disagree with your perception on this being an indecisive part of a Golden Retriever personality. This hobby is better because of the communication amongst enthusiasts. Tapping into each others experiences to gain a better understanding of a particular species is not a negative thing. It may help someone keep their collection manageable as they acquire species more in line with their personal interests. 
It's also a bit passive/aggressive. If someone picks the 'wrong' tarantula (for whatever reason...) based on someone else's recommendations, then the other party is 'to blame' for the 'wrong' decision.
This comment seems a little bit of a stretch….this is not a nursery school and if somebody would truly blame another person in this way then that is a personal problem and no reason for people to stop communicating with each other when it comes to expanding their collections. The talking amongst hobbyists about what species to get next is so much fun. After all, is this hobby not supposed to be fun? I think we need to trim some of the elitist mentality out of the tarantula keeping hobby…We do it cause we like it and if you are looking down upon those who like to ask others what species to get because they are "indecisive," I think you are taking some of the fun out of being a part of this community. I do not know anyone who is interested in T's except for those on this forum and so many have been willing to chat about how cool this species is or how crazy the attacks of that species are…I appreciate that…just senseless babble for the fun of it.

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## Storm76 (Feb 28, 2014)

bscheidt1020 said:


> I appreciate that…just senseless babble for the fun of it.


That's what it is to you and you have fun with that? I rather have a fun evening with friends drinking beer talking about pointless things in a half-drunken state than reading "senseless babble" on the internets

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## CitizenNumber9 (Feb 28, 2014)

I've been snooping and following the thread and I have to say that there are a lot of posts that I really appreciated and agreed with. 

I think the problems that the "elitists", as someone put it, are going to find themselves having when trying to offer advice are going to be the attitudes of the people on the receiving end. Adults don't like to be told what to do by other adults and teenagers and children don't like to be told what to do by adults other than their parents (not even them usually haha!). Not to mention, a lot of people assume that because someone posts a thread, they are asking for questions or advice! Like someone mentioned earlier, sometimes we just want to share our excitement. AB is a place where EVERYONE has a mutual interest in these wonderful creatures. Many of us are constantly around people that either don't like them or simply don't care. Sometimes we just want to be around someone that will share our excitement about the sling we just got or the tarantula we plan to get.


On the topic of the media that everyone seems to be so worried about, do some of you really believe that a parent would take a story to the media that implemented themselves as someone who allows their children to have dangerous creature in their care? Let me predict your next question: What if the child buys it without their permission? Likely the parent will have something to say to the seller about selling to someone underage, making the WORST that could happen the refusal - or maybe even a law - preventing underage people from purchasing tarantulas. According to most of you, that would be a wonderful thing!


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## bscheidt1020 (Feb 28, 2014)

What if I am half drunk when I internet babble? Storm, I think you might be cooler than me but I bet me and my friends talk about much more pointless things than you and your friends. Drunk or not!

---------- Post added 02-28-2014 at 02:01 PM ----------




CitizenNumber9 said:


> I've been snooping and following the thread and I have to say that there are a lot of posts that I really appreciated and agreed with.
> 
> I think the problems that the "elitists", as someone put it, are going to find themselves having when trying to offer advice are going to be the attitudes of the people on the receiving end. Adults don't like to be told what to do by other adults and teenagers and children don't like to be told what to do by adults other than their parents (not even them usually haha!). Not to mention, a lot of people assume that because someone posts a thread, they are asking for questions or advice! Like someone mentioned earlier, sometimes we just want to share our excitement. AB is a place where EVERYONE has a mutual interest in these wonderful creatures. Many of us are constantly around people that either don't like them or simply don't care. Sometimes we just want to be around someone that will share our excitement about the sling we just got or the tarantula we plan to get.
> 
> ...


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## Storm76 (Feb 28, 2014)

CitizenNumber9 said:


> On the topic of the media that everyone seems to be so worried about, do some of you really believe that a parent would take a story to the media that implemented themselves as someone who allows their children to have dangerous creature in their care? Let me predict your next question: What if the child buys it without their permission? Likely the parent will have something to say to the seller about selling to someone underage, making the WORST that could happen the refusal - or maybe even a law - preventing underage people from purchasing tarantulas. According to most of you, that would be a wonderful thing!


That's a split sword, mate. I understand what you're trying to say, but yes - parents will go to lengths to get animals shown as "evil monsters that shouldn't be allowed to keep". I've seen it happen over here. More than once. As a sidenote - in Germany Tarantulas aren't really prohibited at all - instead they're listed in the same list as hamsters meaning, you don't even have to mention them to your landlord and that person can't do anything about them either. There are some cities where certain species like Poecilotheria spp. are prohibited, but luckily I am living in one "all allowed". 
Anyways, the breeders / seller will probably hardly get portrait, as it would also give them advertisement, even if in a negative way. But to show "evil, poisonous (since TV is soooo smart!) giant spiders than can nearly kill you" ? Hell, lots of newsstations would go after that for sure. Doesn't happen everyday!

Just my point of view.



bscheidt1020 said:


> What if I am half drunk when I internet babble? Storm, I think you might be cooler than me but I bet me and my friends talk about much more pointless things than you and your friends. Drunk or not!


You obviously missed my point entirely and didn't get the drift, so here's the translation: 

a) Don't take stuff personally
b) Don't take stuff personally
c) Instead of having fun reading internet babble, better have fun with friends  Which was the meaning of my last post. 

No need to try and provocate me hence, won't work.


Moving on...

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## bscheidt1020 (Feb 28, 2014)

Storm, I think you missed my point too. I wasn't taking anything that was said personally. Just sharing my opinion. Thanks for the lesson on life though in regard to spending time with my friends. Funny thing is, you are on this forum too! I was not trying to provoke you friend. You don't need to be defensive, I am not one to start petty bickering with anybody and this aint nursery school. If people get irritated with people sharing their opinions, what is the point of this site? Maybe if i put LOL after my comments, my intent will be more clear. Just busting chops on the beer and pointless talk comment.


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## cold blood (Feb 28, 2014)

Again, people need to not take things personally.  If you do think someone is getting personal, just let it go.  I read "not to mention, a lot of people assume that because someone posts a thread, they are asking for questions or advise!"   What you need to realize is that about 75% of the people who view AB, aren't registered users.  A ton of people come looking for advise or help or whatever.   So just because given advise doesn't apply to the poster, doesn't mean its not good or valid information.

Just recently I posted asking about feeding multiple prey items at once, got my answer, along with a lot of info on feeding schedules and preventing overweight t's.  That didn't really apply to me, wasn't a question I asked or anything I was having issues with....but it was valid info for someone else I am sure.  So what I did was nothing, I just let it go and thanked for the info, because its still good info.

And people that come onto serious forums to just to "bust chops" have a name....they are referred to as trolls.  No one here is having beers with you, bust the guy's chops across from you that actually has a beer.   Not accusing anyone of this just for a comment, so don't get offended.   Just sayin', most of us aren't here for games.

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## Poec54 (Feb 28, 2014)

CitizenNumber9 said:


> On the topic of the media that everyone seems to be so worried about, do some of you really believe that a parent would take a story to the media that implemented themselves as someone who allows their children to have dangerous creature in their care? Let me predict your next question: What if the child buys it without their permission? Likely the parent will have something to say to the seller about selling to someone underage, making the WORST that could happen the refusal - or maybe even a law - preventing underage people from purchasing tarantulas. According to most of you, that would be a wonderful thing!


You don't think people want to get in front of a TV camera?  Apparently you haven't seen any reality TV for the last 15 years.  People are making complete idiots of themselves in front of millions, all for a few minutes of airtime.  Yes, parents will get in front of a TV new camera when their kid gets bit, AND BLAME THE PET STORE!  Most people don't take responsibility for their own actions anymore: they do something incredibly stupid, hire a lawyer, and file a lawsuit.  Someone else is always to blame.  That's America in the 21st century.  

As far as laws for minors buying T's, wrong again.  We don't want that, or any governmental involvement in the hobby.  It always grows and they have to expand or create an agency.  And like with almost every governmental program ever created, they realize if they actually solve the problem, they're out of a job, so it's in their best interests to ensure that things don't get better.  That way they get more funding, more resources, more employees, and more regulations and laws.  The loser: the public.  

So, those of us that try to prevent beginners (and the people they live with) from experiencing escapes and bites are now 'elitists?'  If you pay attention, the people we advise are asking us questions, asking for our advice.  They don't like the advice they get, some argue, some throw tantrums, call names, and they're the ones to be pitied?  We're the bad guys for not being enablers to their poor judgment?  How about if they act like adults and listen to the answers from people with years or decades of experience?

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## viper69 (Feb 28, 2014)

CitizenNumber9 said:


> On the topic of the media that everyone seems to be so worried about, do some of you really believe that a parent would take a story to the media that implemented themselves as someone who allows their children to have dangerous creature in their care?


You mean implicated, not implemented  Completely different!

In short, YES.


There are MANY examples of people who are totally at fault but blame other parties in hopes of fame/financial gain.

---------- Post added 02-28-2014 at 12:21 PM ----------




Poec54 said:


> You don't think people want to get in front of a TV camera?  Apparently you haven't seen any reality TV for the last 15 years.  People are making complete idiots of themselves in front of millions, all for a few minutes of airtime.  Yes, parents will get in front of a TV new camera when their kid gets bit, AND BLAME THE PET STORE!  Most people don't take responsibility for their own actions anymore: they do something incredibly stupid, hire a lawyer, and file a lawsuit.  Someone else is always to blame.  That's America in the 21st century.
> 
> As far as laws for minors buying T's, wrong again.  We don't want that, or any governmental involvement in the hobby.  It always grows and they have to expand or create an agency.  And like with almost every governmental program ever created, they realize if they actually solve the problem, they're out of a job, so it's in their best interests to ensure that things don't get better.  That way they get more funding, more resources, more employees, and more regulations and laws.  The loser: the public.
> 
> So, those of us that try to prevent beginners (and the people they live with) from experiencing escapes and bites are now 'elitists?'  If you pay attention, the people we advise are asking us questions, asking for our advice.  They don't like the advice they get, some argue, some throw tantrums, call names, and they're the ones to be pitied?  We're the bad guys for not being enablers to their poor judgment?  How about if they act like adults and listen to the answers from people with years or decades of experience?


All true! Couldn't agree more.


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## GSA8 (Feb 28, 2014)

As for the "elitist" mentality, that too is a double edged sword.  That mentality comes from newbies who enter a hobby, get bored, and move on, often trolling and bragging on the forums about their "expertise."  Check any reef/dart/arachnid/exotic forum, there are plenty of both.  On the flip side, many new hobbyists see the elitist mentality, do not understand where it comes from, and then lose interest in the knowledge base that is the community forum, and so stop sharing experiences.  Does that make the new hobbyists wrong for being turned off by elitists?  No, it is human nature not to enjoy being lectured by one's peers.  Does that make the elitists (or more properly termed, passionate hobbyists) wrong for being frustrated and sometimes becoming defensive because some new hobbyists don't do their research, get themselves in over their heads, and kill an animal, or give a bad name to the hobby due to their ignorance?  No.

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## viper69 (Feb 28, 2014)

It's funny. I haven't seen anyone on this board I'd call elitist. I read virtually everyone's posts, esp the people with a greater depth of experience than myself, from Advan to Poec54 and others.

Generally, the only time I see people call other people elitist is when Person A asks for advice and the advice received disagrees with the outcome Person A wants to hear. Then Person A calls the advice givers elitists. This is a simplification of course, but in essence that's what I notice on this forum and many others.

Truly unfair name calling, such as elitist [insert name] (don't get me wrong, there are some people in the world that truly do look down on others), is the first step in classifying a group of people one disagrees with, thus marginalizing them. This often leads to a loss of respect of that person, the so-called elitist, or whatever name is chosen, and the dismissal of any valuable information those people have to give.

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## Bergrider (Feb 28, 2014)

Poec54 said:


> You don't think people want to get in front of a TV camera?  Apparently you haven't seen any reality TV for the last 15 years.  People are making complete idiots of themselves in front of millions, all for a few minutes of airtime.  Yes, parents will get in front of a TV new camera when their kid gets bit, AND BLAME THE PET STORE!  Most people don't take responsibility for their own actions anymore: they do something incredibly stupid, hire a lawyer, and file a lawsuit.  Someone else is always to blame.  That's America in the 21st century.
> 
> As far as laws for minors buying T's, wrong again.  We don't want that, or any governmental involvement in the hobby.  It always grows and they have to expand or create an agency.  And like with almost every governmental program ever created, they realize if they actually solve the problem, they're out of a job, so it's in their best interests to ensure that things don't get better.  That way they get more funding, more resources, more employees, and more regulations and laws.  The loser: the public.
> 
> So, those of us that try to prevent beginners (and the people they live with) from experiencing escapes and bites are now 'elitists?'  If you pay attention, the people we advise are asking us questions, asking for our advice.  They don't like the advice they get, some argue, some throw tantrums, call names, and they're the ones to be pitied?  We're the bad guys for not being enablers to their poor judgment?  How about if they act like adults and listen to the answers from people with years or decades of experience?


That sums this whole thread up in a nutshell IMO. Well put I agree completely. I work with the public daily and constantly wonder if there's any intelligent life out there anymore.
Common sense is truly become so rare I'm surprised now and then when I actually see it

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## viper69 (Feb 28, 2014)

Bergrider said:


> Common sense is truly become so rare I'm surprised now and then when I actually see it


That reminds me of something. I was driving down the road once in a rural part of the country, and on the side of the gas station was a big sign which read "Common Sense Ain't Common" I died laughing, because so often we see examples of how true that is.

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## litebritedeath (Feb 28, 2014)

Poec54 said:


> You don't think people want to get in front of a TV camera?  Apparently you haven't seen any reality TV for the last 15 years.  People are making complete idiots of themselves in front of millions, all for a few minutes of airtime.  Yes, parents will get in front of a TV new camera when their kid gets bit, AND BLAME THE PET STORE!  Most people don't take responsibility for their own actions anymore: they do something incredibly stupid, hire a lawyer, and file a lawsuit.  Someone else is always to blame.  That's America in the 21st century.
> 
> As far as laws for minors buying T's, wrong again.  We don't want that, or any governmental involvement in the hobby.  It always grows and they have to expand or create an agency.  And like with almost every governmental program ever created, they realize if they actually solve the problem, they're out of a job, so it's in their best interests to ensure that things don't get better.  That way they get more funding, more resources, more employees, and more regulations and laws.  The loser: the public.
> 
> So, those of us that try to prevent beginners (and the people they live with) from experiencing escapes and bites are now 'elitists?'  If you pay attention, the people we advise are asking us questions, asking for our advice.  They don't like the advice they get, some argue, some throw tantrums, call names, and they're the ones to be pitied?  We're the bad guys for not being enablers to their poor judgment?  How about if they act like adults and listen to the answers from people with years or decades of experience?


Indeed.  Sadly this reminds me of the recent tragedy of a 10 year old boy dying from "rat bite fever" and his parents suing petco.  Even the warm fuzzy pets of the world can be very dangerous if not handled properly with precautions such as hand washing and avoiding "kissing" and loving your pets.  I had pet rats for years and as much as I loved them I really felt bad about their short life spans and how many of them develop tumors that make their lives less than great.  I put down any of our rats that got to where their quality of life diminished to terrible.  It was hard but using an anesthesia medicine obtained from the vet in a jar was the most humane way i found to put them down.  The vet wanted to inject them in the heart and did not know how painful of a death it would be by his own admission so I researched the best way I could put them down myself.


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## bscheidt1020 (Feb 28, 2014)

When one person talks to another, especially to give advice, it takes a certain bit of common sense to know how to ride the line between being helpful and being condescending. Many do not have it and when somebody addresses it, they hid behind the fact that they were trying to help. Everybody here knows the language one uses when they are trying to help and everyone knows how it sounds when a person is trying to talk down to another person. If people on this board were concerned about a newbie getting OW spiders as their first, why would they start a forum to banter about the poor decision while not sending a personal message to that person with some helpful pointers? Why then would another person be negatively perceived for joking with another member while others start entire threads to gossip about others poor decisions? I, as a new guy, came here for the company of those with common interests, and to receive some help from those more experienced than me as needed. Most hobbyists tend to want to spread their hobby and mentor newbies. That is where old hobbyists pass on their knowledge and help grow the hobby. Instead of questioning others dedication and responsibility with their tarantulas, and only on a public forum without naming names, folks should put down their swords, stop trying to create an elite class of experience keepers that are allowed to own certain species, and mentor new guys. I have read several comments made about my posts, with no direct conversation made towards me. This passive aggressive tactic is silly and I would expect it from children. Holler if you want to talk tarantulas, give advice, or  critique my choices, but please call me by my name when your talking to me..
Thanks
Brandon
 PS. I am not out here feeding my ego, I can take criticism, I just expect people to be able to open up conversation, even of a critical nature, without being insulting…I hope I do not expect too much from a forum that some use to validate themselves and act superior. It reminds me of dudes in the gym flexing their muscles and staring each other down…somebody is missing the point here..haha

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## litebritedeath (Feb 28, 2014)

bscheidt1020 said:


> When one person talks to another, especially to give advice, it takes a certain bit of common sense to know how to ride the line between being helpful and being condescending. Many do not have it and when somebody addresses it, they hid behind the fact that they were trying to help. Everybody here knows the language one uses when they are trying to help and everyone knows how it sounds when a person is trying to talk down to another person. If people on this board were concerned about a newbie getting OW spiders as their first, why would they start a forum to banter about the poor decision while not sending a personal message to that person with some helpful pointers? Why then would another person be negatively perceived for joking with another member while others start entire threads to gossip about others poor decisions? I, as a new guy, came here for the company of those with common interests, and to receive some help from those more experienced than me as needed. Most hobbyists tend to want to spread their hobby and mentor newbies. That is where old hobbyists pass on their knowledge and help grow the hobby. Instead of questioning others dedication and responsibility with their tarantulas, and only on a public forum without naming names, folks should put down their swords, stop trying to create an elite class of experience keepers that are allowed to own certain species, and mentor new guys. I have read several comments made about my posts, with no direct conversation made towards me. This passive aggressive tactic is silly and I would expect it from children. Holler if you want to talk tarantulas, give advice, or  critique my choices, but please call me by my name when your talking to me..
> Thanks
> Brandon
> PS. I am not out here feeding my ego, I can take criticism, I just expect people to be able to open up conversation, even of a critical nature, without being insulting…I hope I do not expect too much from a forum that some use to validate themselves and act superior. It reminds me of dudes in the gym flexing their muscles and staring each other down…somebody is missing the point here..haha


Totally agree.  I am 30 years old and lurked here for years.  I avoid talking about all my T's just because I don't feel like getting harped on because I did not own every NW species before obtaining OW species as well.  I understand where people are coming from but elitist attitudes and talking down to people is not helping anyone at all.  Experience is what will teach any of us the right and wrongs of the hobby along with research.  While NW species can be more docile and less likely to bite that does not mean that they cant or will not bite you.  The same precautions need to be taken for NW species as well as OW despite their published and observed behaviors as a bite, flight, or any other negative aspect of a T is still possible.

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## bscheidt1020 (Feb 28, 2014)

Thanks litebrite, I have noticed you like tarantulas…I also like tarantulas. Haha, the passion is what it is all about! Plus my bath tub is ready for rehousings and feedings…I am doing my best not to disappoint those that are better at tarantulas than I am. JK! what I am truly trying to do is provide my T's with the best life possible,….I care a lot about them and I want the best for them.

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## Bergrider (Feb 28, 2014)

No amount of harping or I told you so's is going to change what someone has already purchased or has there mind set on. Especially after the fact. In the end people are going to do what they want reguardless of someone else's opinion. Ultimately it's their choice.

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## bscheidt1020 (Feb 28, 2014)

Yup, and when you step back and look at the big picture, we on these forums and those like them are the few people that love spiders. Most hate them, are scared of them, or simply do not care about them. Newbie or veteran, we all have an interest in arachnids and that interest should be perpetuated. The risk in any controversial hobby is those who get involved and are a detriment to it(the irresponsible keeper/gun owner/whisky drinker..lol). However, if you as the veteran do not treat these newbies as a potential asset to the hobby, and foster them as that new generation of T lover, you, not they, become the problem. With a keen eye, you may spot a potential problem member of a hobby group before they do damage, and guide them in a better direction. Ostracizing them will not help the situation, rather it will mean that nobody is their to keep an eye on them.

---------- Post added 02-28-2014 at 07:12 PM ----------

GSA8, I do not want to get passionate hobbyists confused with elitists. Elitists thrive on their superior status and tend to be condescending. Passionate hobbyists are not necessarily elitist.

---------- Post added 02-28-2014 at 07:20 PM ----------

Poec54, I appreciate warnings and advise from experienced keepers, I do not appreciate those who need to talk down to other folks to give advice. I do not know what kind of newbies you are used to that throw tantrums, but I respect the veterans that tell me my choice of starting with OW's is risky. I also respect them when they do not fall into the rut of assuming that I am not capable of caring for these creatures. Being able to do the first without the second is, to me, a sign of wisdom…these are the guys I want to seek advice from…not the drama queens and Napoleans. Sometimes it seems like one hobbyists does not want to admit that another may be as able, knowledgeable, or dedicated as he himself is….weird and counterproductive to the well being of the hobby.

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## Poec54 (Feb 28, 2014)

Bergrider said:


> I work with the public daily and constantly wonder if there's any intelligent life out there anymore.


Excellent!  And that's why we try to warn people when we see they may be getting in over their heads.  As several of us have said, some people can start off with OW's and not have any issues... but the majority can't.  It's spiders that are too fast and too confrontational, with unpleasant bites.  You can't fully appreciate it unless you're within a foot or two of them.  They see someone handling a smithi or rosea and pick the pretty OW.  Little do they know what that cute sling will grow into.  So when we give advice to the inexperienced, odds are they're in the later category, that need to work up to it in stages, and there's no shame in that.  Good lord, stop whining when people speak up and say they don't think it's a good idea for you to get an OW yet.  You ask questions, we answer them.  Geez.  Does it ruin the whole spider experience if you slow down a bit and master what you have?  There are SO MANY beautiful spiders in the hobby these days, you can get incredible-looking ones that are fairly well-behaved.  The people that get hostile here are usually the ones in a big rush and don't really think it thru.  The hobby's been around for about 50 years, it keeps getting better; slow down and enjoy it.  The ones in a hurry pop up periodically, make a commotion, argue with advice, get mad, and in a few months often want to sell the spiders that have grown and that they can no longer control.  It would be nice if this scenario didn't have to keep playing out.

---------- Post added 02-28-2014 at 08:07 PM ----------




bscheidt1020 said:


> Poec54, I appreciate warnings and advise from experienced keepers, I do not appreciate those who need to talk down to other folks to give advice. I do not know what kind of newbies you are used to that throw tantrums, but I respect the veterans that tell me my choice of starting with OW's is risky. I also respect them when they do not fall into the rut of assuming that I am not capable of caring for these creatures. Being able to do the first without the second is, to me, a sign of wisdom…these are the guys I want to seek advice from…not the drama queens and Napoleans. Sometimes it seems like one hobbyists does not want to admit that another may be as able, knowledgeable, or dedicated as he himself is….weird and counterproductive to the well being of the hobby.


Hey, we read what you guys post.  That's where we pick up on your knowledge and skill level.  Don't blame us.  When we see signs that don't seem to fit with the some of the spiders you have or want, some of us will speak up.  Take the advice like an adult, and show us you do know what you're doing.  You'll have our respect.  Act immature and lose your temper, and you prove that you probably are getting in over your head.  

As far as knowledge, I'm no expert.  Many guys in the hobby know a lot more than I do.  I keep learning all the time and share what I've learned.

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## Bergrider (Feb 28, 2014)

I didn't write that lol


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## bscheidt1020 (Feb 28, 2014)

Yeah I hear ya Poec, I hope you vets can also keep in mind that what you pick up on over internet forums may not be accurately indicative of a persons abilities. Not to say that you can't pick up on quite a bit from a person's written word, but it needs to be kept in perspective. Like I have said before, I welcome comments, personal messages, etc. analyzing my choices in this hobby. I welcome them even more if I am addressed personally. I believe I have responded in adult like fashion to the comments posted to me and toward me while also engaging folks directly and without hesitation or intimidation. I hope to be in this hobby for a long time, and to pass the interest in creatures that most are terrified of down to my children some day. Could be a great lesson in not fearing what is not familiar to you…a great lesson for humanity i think. It is a big world out there.

I just read the part about newbies acquiring OW species or otherwise defensive ones and needing to sell them and such. I apologize if I seem to be reacting too harshly to your opinions about newbies and agro spiders. You apparently have seen many people dive in, get scared/overwhelmed, and back out. I hope to not be like these people. I will keep you all posted and hopefully will gain your respect in due time. You may have heard this before, but i love my spiders. I check em daily and my arrogant little Boehmi is currently stuffing his face. Sweet

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## Storm76 (Feb 28, 2014)

As a simple statement: There are no "professionals" as far as keepers go. Like Poec said - even those with decades of experience are still learning day by day. It is that experience, put to use daily, that makes them experienced. It's not wanting rain on someone's parade or, gods beware, discourage someone. And I fully agree on the "there are so many beautiful spiders" in the hobby - it doesn't have to be a confrontational, 8" large, teleporting OW for the 16-year old boy wanting to start with "more challenging" tarantulas after having own 3 NW slings for 3 weeks and thinking he can deal with said OW already. That is the message that is mostly meant. 

If some of those keepers get a little abrasive over the years, you as newer keepers need to understand that's not directed at you personally, it's the bad experience that the person made giving the same advice to new keepers before yourself and getting the same, discouraging, self-overestimating answers from them. But still, they are around, they still give the advice, they still offer to help. Take it or leave it, but if you chose to ignore it don't come here afterwards complaining about how "bad" a certain species can be, how you not expected this or that reaction. Because then, it shows exactly what you've been warned of before - proving exactly the point of the new keeper being in over their heads. 

Also - the above: Not directed at anyone - just saying....

As for beautiful spiders: Why do you think I have so many NWs and only few OWs? I like those species I keep, their looks, their behavior, their little quirks. Yes, I'm one of those keepers that actually did start with a little more challenging species, in my case I got a P. irminia juvie female along with a B. smithi. Did I have problems? No, not really. Was I surprised by their speed seing it 1st hand? Hell, yes! I did check on that spider before I bought it, I did 1 year of research before deciding to even buy those two. So far, I haven't been bitten once, I'm raising Avic slings without trouble, I don't usually handle my T's, I still help promote the hobby by educating people I know about them. Does that make me cool? Not at all, mostly because I don't care about "coolness" - I like Michael's and Chad's pictures - now those are cool! Anyways, it makes me simply a keeper that tries to be responsible. Those times I do have questions, I send a PM to those that I've read over the time on certain subjects and trust their advice.

Why do I have so few OWs? Because I have time. I don't need to get every Poecie within a week, a month or a couple. I take it slow. I have successfully raised my first Poecie from tiny sling to MM without any incidents and sent him off to breeding. So, since a couple people send me messaged, that's my explanation. The couple C. fimbriatus I raised form tiny slings have evolved in a couple little devils, but do I have problems? None, I just recently transferred my ~5" female without incident by being prepared having had the experience of seing her grow up, knowing how she usually reacts and predicting her correctly by placing a catchcup over the exit of her burrow and gently prodding her out with a chopsitck from the other side. Simple, easy and without so much of risk of getting bitten or having an OW on the lose 

And all that is not to say I don't make mistakes, everyone does now and then. Be it because you're somewhere else with your mind because you had a bad day, underestimate a tarantula that usually behaves like A but that day shows you it can do B just as well. We learn while going. The slower, the less severe the consequences in my opinion. 

Bottom line: If you have a question on a specific subject, but don't want to post it publicly, send a simple PM to the person you think can answer it. Should help you just as well.

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## bscheidt1020 (Feb 28, 2014)

Storm, my friend, you have c. fimbriatus….allow my jealousy to set in! How are they to keep? And do not worry, I am not ready to go pick up any slings yet. I would love to start the long process of raising a few king baboons. Think a 20 gallon tall or 30gallon tall from glass cages.com may do nice for them as adults. Or M. balfouri, or H. albostriatum, or P. Subfusca! Or L Klugi, or P. Cambridgei or H. Colombia Large, or P. Cancerides, or L. Borneo Black, or DANG IT!!!!!! So many good uns!


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## Poec54 (Feb 28, 2014)

bscheidt1020 said:


> Yeah I hear ya Poec, I hope you vets can also keep in mind that what you pick up on over internet forums may not be accurately indicative of a persons abilities. Not to say that you can't pick up on quite a bit from a person's written word, but it needs to be kept in perspective. Like I have said before, I welcome comments, personal messages, etc. analyzing my choices in this hobby. I welcome them even more if I am addressed personally. I believe I have responded in adult like fashion to the comments posted to me and toward me while also engaging folks directly and without hesitation or intimidation. I hope to be in this hobby for a long time, and to pass the interest in creatures that most are terrified of down to my children some day. Could be a great lesson in not fearing what is not familiar to you…a great lesson for humanity i think. It is a big world out there.
> 
> I just read the part about newbies acquiring OW species or otherwise defensive ones and needing to sell them and such. I apologize if I seem to be reacting too harshly to your opinions about newbies and agro spiders. You apparently have seen many people dive in, get scared/overwhelmed, and back out. I hope to not be like these people. I will keep you all posted and hopefully will gain your respect in due time. You may have heard this before, but i love my spiders. I check em daily and my arrogant little Boehmi is currently stuffing his face. Sweet


You've got a level head, I'm not worried about you.  You've got the big picture, of the hobby and passing it on to the next generation.  That's something you really don't hear from the rushing/arguing guys.  They're all about instant gratification.  I was in college when I got my first T's and somehow was soon drafted into giving slide show talks to local elementary school classes all over the Detroit suburbs.  The young kids had little fear of spiders, but the older ones did.  It's a learned behavior.  Interesting that girls were typically braver than boys.  Best part was the 'thank you' notes/drawings that the teachers would mail to me a few days later.  I think I still have them somewhere. 

My perspective is to look at this as a long term thing, a passion that lasts.


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## Formerphobe (Feb 28, 2014)

bscheidt1020 said:


> Formerphobe,
> I disagree with your perception on this being an indecisive part of a Golden Retriever personality. This hobby is better because of the communication amongst enthusiasts. Tapping into each others experiences to gain a better understanding of a particular species is not a negative thing. It may help someone keep their collection manageable as they acquire species more in line with their personal interests.
> It's also a bit passive/aggressive. If someone picks the 'wrong' tarantula (for whatever reason...) based on someone else's recommendations, then the other party is 'to blame' for the 'wrong' decision.
> This comment seems a little bit of a stretch….this is not a nursery school and if somebody would truly blame another person in this way then that is a personal problem and no reason for people to stop communicating with each other when it comes to expanding their collections. The talking amongst hobbyists about what species to get next is so much fun. After all, is this hobby not supposed to be fun? I think we need to trim some of the elitist mentality out of the tarantula keeping hobby…We do it cause we like it and if you are looking down upon those who like to ask others what species to get because they are "indecisive," I think you are taking some of the fun out of being a part of this community. I do not know anyone who is interested in T's except for those on this forum and so many have been willing to chat about how cool this species is or how crazy the attacks of that species are…I appreciate that…just senseless babble for the fun of it.


Asking intelligent questions about specific species is different from some of the _'Woe is me, I can't make up my mind"_ threads.  
If you read all the threads, some people are not aware that this is not nursery school.  
There have indeed been posts casting blame on third parties for having misdirected the purchaser.
If I wanted senseless babble, I would turn on the TV.  

---------- Post added 02-28-2014 at 10:40 PM ----------




CitizenNumber9 said:


> I've been snooping and following the thread and I have to say that there are a lot of posts that I really appreciated and agreed with.
> 
> I think the problems that the "elitists", as someone put it, are going to find themselves having when trying to offer advice are going to be the attitudes of the people on the receiving end. Adults don't like to be told what to do by other adults and teenagers and children don't like to be told what to do by adults other than their parents (not even them usually haha!). Not to mention, a lot of people assume that because someone posts a thread, they are asking for questions or advice! Like someone mentioned earlier, sometimes we just want to share our excitement. AB is a place where EVERYONE has a mutual interest in these wonderful creatures. Many of us are constantly around people that either don't like them or simply don't care. Sometimes we just want to be around someone that will share our excitement about the sling we just got or the tarantula we plan to get.
> 
> ...


I think sharing new acquisitions is great!  I don't think anyone is discouraging that.  I frequently congratulate people on their new spiders.  It is exciting, even for long time keepers, to get new animals.

People will take anything to the media.

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## klawfran3 (Feb 28, 2014)

when I first started out, I had an OBT. but this wasn't technically my fault. the vendor at a show sold it to me saying they're "great beginner pets! lots of attitude (which I thought meant personality) and are hard to kill." having done no research, I foolishly bought it. and I had that sling for a few months before it got a wobbly leg disease and died, speaking of which the thread has just been woken up a few days ago. hmm...
but as I was saying, and I know this may sound a bit bad, but in a way I am sort of glad it passed. it kept me from seriously getting hurt in the long run, and I have more experience now then I did back then. I personally feel ready to move on to Old worlds, but this is after two years of keeping. and even then I am only getting a C. Darlingi, a much slower, mellow, and less potent old world than an OBT or H. Maculata. I can not even FATHOM how ANYONE feels ready to get an Hmac as their first tarantula! ESPECIALLY those people how have never owned a fast pet in their life! and a lot of beginners defend themselves saying how they did research and are ready for one. well, I have done research on keeping king cobras. do I feel ready for one? HELL NO. I have never owned a snake in my life! common sense dictates that if I got a cobra, they would find my body dead with a cobra happily munching on it. I have no experience even KEEPING snakes, let alone aggressive, hot, territorial ones! 
and honestly though? I think the one reason that people get these as their first pets is because they can sound cool telling their friends about it. "hey dude. I have the world's most venomous tarantula as a pet." or "hey man! look at this sweet pet I got! I own the most deadly XYZ ever!" because that makes you so much cooler. It's times when people ignore common sense to look better in their peers eyes. people will do ANYTHING for acceptance, and that can jeopardize the people who are actually passionate about the animals. one bad apple spoils the bunch, as I have said many times. if some foolish 13 year old goes out and buys an Hmac so he can seem cool at school, and he gets bit, has a bad reaction, and dies, think of how horribly that would rocket through the media! people would be outraged and DEMAND banns on our "horrible evil spiders"so that no more children can get hurt, meanwhile dogs bite and attack a vast more amount of people than spiders, scorpions, and centipedes combined, but nobody wants them banned because they're "cute." a noob getting an advanced tarantula is just an accident waiting to happen, whether they feel "ready" for one. you won't feel so ready when a fully grown P Ornata bolts from his cage and ends up over your eye.

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## Formerphobe (Feb 28, 2014)

bscheidt1020 said:


> [/COLOR] Sometimes it seems like one hobbyists does not want to admit that another may be as able, knowledgeable, or dedicated as he himself is….weird and counterproductive to the well being of the hobby.


Every hobbyist has something to contribute.  Even most experienced hobbyists recognize that there are others who have more experience with certain genera or species.  

There are some newcomers that come on here periodically who think they can manipulate what has taken tarantulas a million years to perfect and are going to do things their way without consideration for the animals they may harm in the process.  It becomes blatantly apparent early on that they are not going to listen to reason.  Until they either grow a brain or get banned, there is this nifty little button under settings where one can 'ignore' specific members posts and one doesn't have to be annoyed by the twaddle.    I've only used it a time or two, but it really is a sanity saver.

---------- Post added 02-28-2014 at 11:02 PM ----------




> Bottom line: If you have a question on a specific subject, but don't want to post it publicly, send a simple PM to the person you think can answer it. Should help you just as well.


Excellent idea.  I get PMs regularly from people wanting to ask specific questions, and send quite a few myself.

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## klawfran3 (Feb 28, 2014)

Formerphobe said:


> Every hobbyist has something to contribute.  Even most experienced hobbyists recognize that there are others who have more experience with certain genera or species.
> 
> There are some newcomers that come on here periodically who think they can manipulate what has taken tarantulas a million years to perfect and are going to do things their way without consideration for the animals they may harm in the process.  It becomes blatantly apparent early on that they are not going to listen to reason.  Until they either grow a brain or get banned, there is this nifty little button under settings where one can 'ignore' specific members posts and one doesn't have to be annoyed by the twaddle.    I've only used it a time or two, but it really is a sanity saver.



woo! I'm sure glad you didn't do that to me haha. I know I sure asked some stupid questions when i  first started, but hey, didn't we all?

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## purevl (Feb 28, 2014)

Wow...I was travelling today & missed a lot of conversation.  




Poec54 said:


> Too many people think that 'virtual' is just like reality, and that reading is a substitute for hands-on experience.


Considering I already have the two Ts....I guess I'll be getting that hands-on experience now.  



Poec54 said:


> Online research in no way prepares you for have a fast, aggitated T with strong venom running around your room or up your arm.  That's when people soil their underwear.


One thing I didn't mention is that I'm nearly 40 years old & have kept pythons & boas in the past which, while not Ts or venomous, are strong, fast, wild animals (even tho born & raised in captivity they're still wild).  So even tho my T experience is limited (I'm not a total newb but might as well be, had a G. rosea (pet rock) as a kid) I have a lot of experience with unpredictable animals & know how to keep my cool when something potentially dangerous is on the loose.  I agree that having a fast, agitated T running around my room could be a bit pant soiling...but try having a 9' Burmese python upset with you.  

That's part of what I meant about asking questions before immediately jumping on someone for buying a species generally considered advanced.  Nobody on this thread jumped on anybody, this has been quite civil for the most part, but you do see that quite often. 



Keith B said:


> As said there's been plenty of threads on here where a beginner has fessed up to throwing a spider In panic.  Also it's silly to bias "anecdotal reporting" to simply favor a new keeper raising advanced slings/keeping advanced adults.
> 
> ...
> 
> I personally appreciate those that DO actually report mishaps in re housing fast Ts that they went out and got on impulse.  It takes a lot of guts.


I'm not saying favor a new keeper; again, I'm just saying to find out a bit about the keeper before deciding they're out of their league.  For all you know the new keeper might have years of keeping scorpions.  So they'd know about fast, venomous, arachnids & would have knowledge/experience in dealing with unexpected situations such as something escaping during a rehousing.

I also appreciate reports of mishaps.  I can read those & find out what went wrong & then from the replies I can find out ways to help fix/prevent it from happening to me.  And yes, they do take guts.  When I had my first python I went stupid one day & reached into his tank after bringing a rat home for dinner.  Since I smelled yummy, he struck & coiled around arm.  Was I embarrassed?  Absolutely.  Do I tell people about it if fits the conversation?  Certainly, hopefully someone can learn from my mistake.  



Storm76 said:


> Then there is the "free spiderling" thing, too. Well, can do really anything about that, except suggest not to give away the OW slings to people they don't yet know well enough. That is wishful thinking, admitted.


This is actually the case with my H. mac.  I had originally intended to get one of those down the line but was the only species on the freebie list that I was interested in so I grabbed that as well.



Poec54 said:


> Good lord, stop whining when people speak up and say they don't think it's a good idea for you to get an OW yet.  You ask questions, we answer them.  Geez.


I agree completely that people shouldn't whine when they ask a question & get an answer they don't want to hear.  Many times when asked a question I've replied, "Are you sure you want me to answer that?"  However, a lot of times the comments come after the Ts have already been purchased & received.  By that point it's useless to come down on someone.  They can't return the Ts & probably wouldn't even if they could just because some random person on the internet told them it was a bad idea.  It would be far better at that point to, instead of offering belated criticism, simply offer advice on what they can do now that they they're already in it.


Now, I'm sure there are some pieces of some posts somewhere that I missed that I wanted to reply to but I've already gotten 6 or 7 emails about new posts just while typing this & I'm not going to go digging thru everything to find 'em.  So I'll end by just saying this...

I do appreciate all the advice given to me even if I may not necessarily take it.  Everything I leech from those with more experience than me (Stan, Poec54, viper69, Storm76, & others) will only make me better at my job of keeping my Ts happy & healthy.  Oh yeah & I get to enjoy them as well.  I lurked here long enough to know that, while I am confident in myself, I have a lot to learn.  I plan on being in the hobby for a long time & intend to pick your brains dry.

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## klawfran3 (Feb 28, 2014)

purevl said:


> Wow...I was travelling today & missed a lot of conversation.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I just want to take that out of your paragraph, sorry. a burmese is a dangerous animal, yes don't get me wrong, but it is a completely different kind of dangerous. those are ones that have intelligence. they can show you they don't want to be messed with, and will. but the thing you are missing is that a burmese python is like a snail compared to the speed of a T. the snake will strike at you and return to it's original position without trying to run.  A tarantula will run out, bite you hard, and then crawl in to your cabinet in the blink of an eye. there is no comparison. A snake is predictable and can be steered by moving the head. they have thought processes. A tarantula runs on instinct and instinct alone. they go where they want to, and the only way to steer one away from you is to physically pick it up and move it, making it all the more dangerous. heck, you can even subdue a snake with a hold behind the head. where are you going to hold a tarantula to subdue it without killing it or being at risk of being bit. here's a hint: You can't.


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## Poec54 (Feb 28, 2014)

purevl said:


> However, a lot of times the comments come after the Ts have already been purchased & received.  By that point it's useless to come down on someone.


Agree with most of your post, which is pretty good.  However this one part isn't actually correct.  It's easy enough for someone to sell/trade any spiders they've gotten, especially with the classifieds here.  Much better for a beginner to find a home for an OBT sling now, than when it's 4" and they can't even get it in a cup to pack and ship it.  That's where the advice/warnings here can be a big help.  If in retrospect you're not up to dealing with the lunatic your spider will become, that's easily corrected.

'It's too late now' is no excuse.  There's no point in someone waiting until they're afraid of it, or it gets loose.  Set the ego aside.

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## Keith B (Feb 28, 2014)

CitizenNumber9 said:


> On the topic of the media that everyone seems to be so worried about, do some of you really believe that a parent would take a story to the media that implemented themselves as someone who allows their children to have dangerous creature in their care? Let me predict your next question: What if the child buys it without their permission? Likely the parent will have something to say to the seller about selling to someone underage, making the WORST that could happen the refusal - or maybe even a law - preventing underage people from purchasing tarantulas. According to most of you, that would be a wonderful thing!


I would also answer YES right away to this.  When it comes down to it, we're all humans, and all at least somewhat self-serving, so the world is always going to have more episodes of bad parenting than good.  Just check out all of the therapy shows on TV nowadays with parents and children experiencing huge problems.  Parents are the "adults", the "mature ones", and it often comes with an inflated ego.  More often than not, they never want to put the blame on themselves, cause they are always right, always making the best decision for their child.  This elitist mentality often passes on to the child, who then can become a newbie on this forum expecting to get what s/he wants and all the responses s/he wants.  If a child is bitten by a hot T they'll just play the "didn't know" card.  I didn't know the venom was bad, how could they sell this to my kid?  Then the parents themselves may even go elitist once more, crusaders in a greater cause to help the children, and seek legislation not only against children having hot Ts, but against people having hot Ts in general.  The snake hobby is already suffering because children are getting hurt due to irresponsible keepers.  

I also agree we don't want lawmakers getting involved in the hobby, cause it only escalates and hurts everything we work for.

Brandon, like Poec said, when you spend enough time in the hobby, you can get a pretty good feel for red flags on the forums.  The most elitism I've seen on here is usually, as mentioned before, from relatively new keepers that had early success and have immediately become all-knowing experts on Ts, or completely new keepers who don't like the responses they get, and get condescending towards the experienced keepers, and calling them "elitists".  I could give you perfect examples of that, but it's not polite to point any of that out.  

This is for conversation with all, and not just pertaining to Brandon: I know who many of the experienced keepers with good knowledge on these forums are, and often see them being called elitist for offering good information without deserving so.  The term "elitist" is frankly getting pretty old to me, because at first it was being used by people who REALLY weren't responsible enough to keep tarantulas, and spread like a virus to people that may.  Now it seems like often when we caution a new keeper to work their way up, unless we sugar-coat the hell out of it, it's an elitist response.  It's just thrown around way too easily anymore.  Of course, the characteristic of elitist exists, but it's not flooding out the forum.  We don't talk about the capabilities of fast and aggressive Ts as "scare tactics", we do it to relay unto the person respect for the animal.  You should have respect for all animals, but an even more intense respect for one that could potentially hurt you, and that shouldn't be always perceived as fear.  We don't want people to be afraid of them, just to show them respect.  Most of us worked our way up the same way we're preaching, so it's just silly to say elitist so much.  It's come up in this thread, and there's not a single elitist response in it.  I have seen some posts on here from experienced keepers that come across as condescending at times, but they're really quite few, and usually provoked directly or indirectly.  Usually they see the signs or see something that rubs them the wrong way.  I'm moderately experienced, but I'm nowhere near Poec54 in keeping experience.  However, I preach the same steps he does, so sometimes I feel like when he gets called elitist, than so do the rest of us who agree with him.  Not saying he was called elitist in this thread, but he has been before.

Back to Brandon, hi buddy!  lol  We do know that some have success starting out with advanced Ts, and you make good points, so you will probably be one of those.  But this is a public thread, so we can't agree with you too much >.<.  While you can handle starting out that way, the others that shouldn't will read this and go "well he can do it, so that means I can too."  When we make our points we cover all bases, any little circumstance that might influence somebody elses poor decision, so your argument can be interpreted as inadvertently advocating starting out with OW Ts, which is why you're getting some heat on here.  It's nothing against you personally.  Figured if I cleared that up it would help this thread a lot lol.  Hell, I just watched two teenagers staple gun their tongues to a kitchen table on TV last night.  Never know if one of those kids is reading this thread right now lol.

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## purevl (Feb 28, 2014)

klawfran3 said:


> I just want to take that out of your paragraph, sorry. a burmese is a dangerous animal, yes don't get me wrong, but it is a completely different kind of dangerous. those are ones that have intelligence. they can show you they don't want to be messed with, and will. but the thing you are missing is that a burmese python is like a snail compared to the speed of a T. the snake will strike at you and return to it's original position without trying to run.  A tarantula will run out, bite you hard, and then crawl in to your cabinet in the blink of an eye. there is no comparison. A snake is predictable and can be steered by moving the head. they have thought processes. A tarantula runs on instinct and instinct alone. they go where they want to, and the only way to steer one away from you is to physically pick it up and move it, making it all the more dangerous. heck, you can even subdue a snake with a hold behind the head. where are you going to hold a tarantula to subdue it without killing it or being at risk of being bit. here's a hint: You can't.


You took my point wrong, I was mainly replying to the soiling pants comment there.  I'm just saying that whether it's a snake that strikes & retreats or a spider that strikes & runs, keeping cool in the immediate while & not panicking is something I have experience at.  After that, yeah, it's a totally different ball game where one has nothing to do with the other.



Poec54 said:


> Agree with most of your post, which is pretty good.  However this one part isn't actually correct.  It's easy enough for someone to sell/trade any spiders they've gotten, especially with the classifieds here.  Much better for a beginner to find a home for an OBT sling now, than when it's 4" and they can't even get it in a cup to pack and ship it.  That's where the advice/warnings here can be a big help.  If in retrospect you're not up to dealing with the lunatic your spider will become, that's easily corrected.
> 
> 'It's too late now' is no excuse.  There's no point in someone waiting until they're afraid of it, or it gets loose.  Set the ego aside.


Oh, I know someone can get rid of it but how many do you think actually do/would? I'd bet most people will defend their position no matter what (looks around innocently..lol).


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## klawfran3 (Feb 28, 2014)

purevl said:


> You took my point wrong, I was mainly replying to the soiling pants comment there.  I'm just saying that whether it's a snake that strikes & retreats or a spider that strikes & runs, keeping cool in the immediate while & not panicking is something I have experience at.  After that, yeah, it's a totally different ball game where one has nothing to do with the other.


oh haha sorry. I must have misunderstood your point then! my mistake!

---------- Post added 02-28-2014 at 08:54 PM ----------




Keith B said:


> Hell, I just watched two teenagers staple gun their tongues to a kitchen table on TV last night.  Never know if one of those kids is reading this thread right now lol.


 and thus another reason why some people shouldn't breed! xD


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## ReclusiveDemon (Mar 1, 2014)

I've been reflecting on myself while following this thread and to be frank, I really shouldn't have impulsively collected all of the tarantulas that I have now. I started out with easygoing tarantulas half a year ago, and through some malarkey I've ended up with a few Pokies and some baboons, which are honestly best left to the keepers who have the experience and skill to keep these volatile specimens without them blowing up in their faces, so to speak. Old world tarantulas are a big deal, not 'just' a spider; some of them have some incredibly powerful venom, and they're liable to zip out of whatever enclosure us silly humans try to contain them in whenever we open them up for feeding or clean up or whatever, even if they don't do so 95% of the time, but if you don't batten down the hatches and take serious precautions, you may end up being shocked when your encounter is one of that last percentage. I'm quite fortunate so far to have not had any mishaps, except for the time when my Monocentropus balfouri took an unauthorized outing from it's cage into my room for ten minutes or so and the whole time I was frantically trying to find the little bug. I now have a personal nickname for him that isn't appropriate for a family friendly message board. Anyways, what happened was me not being respectful of the T and being unprepared to stop his little excursion. When my little OW bundles of joy start to get to a good size, they'll be able to run circles around that little baboon. I fear that my situation may conform to the one that others have described here. With what little experience that I have, I wasn't able to stop the situation, and ultimately it could have developed into something so much worse. If you have next to no experience with tarantulas and you get something so incredibly fast like a Poecilotheria, you'll only multiply the chances that something very wrong will happen. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B86JY1uKpsw Has a bad word in it, don't click if you're sensitive...

Kids, you don't want to be in that guy's position, and I don't want to be either. There are so many new world species out there to choose from without nearly as punishing a bite as that of an old world's. I know that I thought that I could avoid an escape or envenomation, but I know that the risk is there, and it's only compounded by my incompetence and inexperience. The risk is real even for the aficionado, and I don't know how I would handle the consequences if one day the odds aren't in my favor. Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger I guess, but I'd still prefer not to go through such an ordeal. I can't speak for any other new or relatively new keepers who have old world tarantulas, but I'd like for you to also re-evaluate your ability to safely care for these animals. Some people think along the lines of "I won't be that guy, I'll be different, I won't get tagged, I won't let an escape happen", but it can still happen to them and it has happened in the past. I thought that I would be alright, but while I'm not sure at the moment, I may quit while I'm ahead, and save myself the agony. Even if I did sell off my OW T's, that doesn't mean that I couldn't ever come back to keeping them. If I did take that route, then it would be a time when I am much more comfortable with my ability. I beseech you, those who are reading this and may be in a similar position, or can somehow relate to it, be honest with yourself.

EDIT: Oh, and in regards to "elitism", I find there are very, very few people on here who fit that bill, and none of them have posted on this thread. Just because you're not being told what you want to hear, and what you are hearing isn't being wrapped in a pretty pink box with a bow on top, doesn't mean that they think of themselves as any better than you are. Elitism is becoming the new buzzword around here it seems.

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## bscheidt1020 (Mar 1, 2014)

Formerphobe, I think I used the term "senseless babble" in a light hearted manner to describe the conversation between enthusiasts about tarantulas, which is often for personal enjoyment. Was not meant to be taken literally by any means…You know the threads where a guy asks 'what is your favorite tarantula?' I swear you all are lucky I have not PMed each of you individually to ask you that question. I love hearing about everyones favorites and personal experience.

---------- Post added 03-01-2014 at 12:45 AM ----------

I have a heard a number of people bring up that some newbies get bad boy tarantulas to brag about it….Is this really that common? If I told anybody I know that I had an Hmac and tried to explain what it was, they would look at me cross-eyed. If i want to impress somebody I will…never mind i guess i am not that impressive…

ReclusiveDemon, I think I started the elitist thing on this thread but it has been misinterpreted beyond comprehension. You want to chat, holler at me PM style, otherwise just know I did not mean it to insinuate that I can't take advice or criticism. i rather enjoy both, when devoid of melodrama..


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## freedumbdclxvi (Mar 1, 2014)

klawfran3 said:


> I just want to take that out of your paragraph, sorry. a burmese is a dangerous animal, yes don't get me wrong, but it is a completely different kind of dangerous. those are ones that have intelligence. they can show you they don't want to be messed with, and will. but the thing you are missing is that a burmese python is like a snail compared to the speed of a T. the snake will strike at you and return to it's original position without trying to run.  A tarantula will run out, bite you hard, and then crawl in to your cabinet in the blink of an eye. there is no comparison. A snake is predictable and can be steered by moving the head. they have thought processes. A tarantula runs on instinct and instinct alone. they go where they want to, and the only way to steer one away from you is to physically pick it up and move it, making it all the more dangerous. heck, you can even subdue a snake with a hold behind the head. where are you going to hold a tarantula to subdue it without killing it or being at risk of being bit. here's a hint: You can't.


I gotta just jump in here and say if a 10'+ snake wants to go somewhere, it's gonna take quite a bit more than moving its head to make it deviate.  I get what you're saying, but both animals are unpredictable.  Not only that, spiders will show you when they are agitated with a threat pose.  That's the spider saying don't mess with me.


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## Keith B (Mar 1, 2014)

bscheidt1020 said:


> I have a heard a number of people bring up that some newbies get bad boy tarantulas to brag about it….Is this really that common? If I told anybody I know that I had an Hmac and tried to explain what it was, they would look at me cross-eyed. If i want to impress somebody I will…never mind i guess i am not that impressive…
> 
> ReclusiveDemon, I think I started the elitist thing on this thread but it has been misinterpreted beyond comprehension. You want to chat, holler at me PM style, otherwise just know I did not mean it to insinuate that I can't take advice or criticism. i rather enjoy both, when devoid of melodrama..


Well there's some who get these tarantulas as freebies, or see pictures and don't do much in the way of research, and don't really understand what they just acquired, and post on here boasting what they got.  This isn't with just hot Ts though, happens with Ts that require specific care as well, and sometimes we don't know they got one until it's dying in a thread (happens with Theraphosa a lot).  I don't see a lot of the braggart idiocy on here somuch, but it's evident elsewhere, and especially on youtube.  Videos of people antagonizing S. calceatums and laughing about it, and all kinds of terrible "jackass" style videos.  There's a TON of that stuff out there online, so we can only safely assume that these same "jackass" types are bragging to people that their spider can "mess them up" and they're totally "rad" for keeping one in their house.  Just because we're sensible people, we can't assume that of everyone.

You might actually be misinterpreting.  There's plenty of room for that with text conversation.  I'm not saying you can't take advice or criticism.  I just see that circumstance of use for the word a lot on the forums, and I didn't mean for you to interpret that towards you simply because we have two different points of view on this current subject.  I mentioned all the stuff about the word elitism directed to everyone reading, because it's being thrown around as basically a word to be used to get ones way in an argument, and because of it nobody is getting anywhere, so it needs to be cooled.  I wasn't saying everyone who uses the word elitism is automatically a moron who can't take criticism.  That was simply my petition to everyone to quit throwing it around so much.

I said that first part to you to state that I agree with a couple others on here that that's the circumstances where I started seeing the word being used originally, and now it's getting used by a ton of people.  Then I simply said you may be right about yourself, but I can't just go ahead and agree with you, because a new keeper could read it as another endorsement of "jumping right in" to advanced tarantulas.  They may not research as hard as you did, may not respect the animal as well as you do, and there could be a result that is the opposite of your own personal result.  When I said you'll take heat, it's because you already were.  People were arguing with you because they don't want to endorse doing that either.  I was just trying to cut to the core of it and put it out there instead of rambling on with reasons not to and argue with you about it.  You're not going to get us to publicly say "oh yeah. do tons of research and it'll be okay."  It's too risky for new keepers on an individual basis.

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## klawfran3 (Mar 1, 2014)

freedumbdclxvi said:


> I gotta just jump in here and say if a 10'+ snake wants to go somewhere, it's gonna take quite a bit more than moving its head to make it deviate.  I get what you're saying, but both animals are unpredictable.  Not only that, spiders will show you when they are agitated with a threat pose.  That's the spider saying don't mess with me.


I don't get threat poses from my tarantulas. they usually just charge me fangs barred. it is quite a shocking sight to see a three inch A. Avic teleport up your tongs and narrowly miss you from a still position. take it from me, not all tarantulas throw a display. those that do are usually the "polite" ones.


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## Lrntolive (Mar 1, 2014)

Storm76,

As a newbie to T's, I have to say that the sheer curiosity of these animals is what got me started. That being said, I may be a little more cautious than most. I've read two books, Stan's website and multiple posts here and on the ATS board before deciding that I should avoid certain species at this time. OW's are definitely not for me because I personally realize that I'm not experienced enough and lack the knowledge to properly handle those species.

Even though I personally would not try an OW any time in the near future, I do believe every person has to decide for themselves when to take that leap. It might be premature to get one with only a weeks worth of handling or reading just a message board, but some people may just have the knack for picking it up quickly. The other side of this is that wisdom is gained through experience, good or bad. A person can read about T's all day long, but until he/she starts taking care of one, it's all theory and no practice.

For me, I'm perfectly satisfied with my A. metallica, G. pulchra and B. boehmei, although the boehmei kicks hairs more than I could have gathered just from reading books and posts. Luckily, the hairs don't seem to bother me.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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## Storm76 (Mar 1, 2014)

So, from what I gather it's usually one (or a combination) of these three reasons:

* showing-off
* simple, innocent, curiosity (which killed the cat as we all know)
* looks of the T not caring about anything else about the species

I think that's what we can narrow it down to? Did I forget something?

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## Poec54 (Mar 1, 2014)

bscheidt1020 said:


> I have a heard a number of people bring up that some newbies get bad boy tarantulas to brag about it….Is this really that common?


Yes, too common.  At birth, there is a 3 percentage point higher ratio of males to female humans, and because young males do so many stupid things to prove their masculinity, by the time they reach adulthood, some don't make it and the ratio becomes equal.  This is from hundreds of thousands of years of evolution.  I think all of the pictures and videos I've seen of people handling fast/hot T's have been guys.  Likewise, the ones here that have jumped into the deep end too fast (and argue with us) with those same species have also been guys.  Males do stupid 'guy' things.  Remember all those Dave Barry and Tim Allen jokes about it?  We're just primates that wear clothes, the 'well-dressed ape.'  I just don't see women using such poor judgement, and especially nowhere the frequency that guys do.  Some of those same guys find their way here, and that's why we try to slow anyone down that lacks the skill or experience for their planned acquisitions.  It's not a race, there's nothing to prove.  Take your time.  Everything will still be there when you're ready for them.

---------- Post added 03-01-2014 at 08:03 AM ----------




Lrntolive said:


> As a newbie to T's, I have to say that the sheer curiosity of these animals is what got me started. That being said, I may be a little more cautious than most. I've read two books, Stan's website and multiple posts here and on the ATS board before deciding that I should avoid certain species at this time. OW's are definitely not for me because I personally realize that I'm not experienced enough and lack the knowledge to properly handle those species.
> 
> Even though I personally would not try an OW any time in the near future, I do believe every person has to decide for themselves when to take that leap. It might be premature to get one with only a weeks worth of handling or reading just a message board, but some people may just have the knack for picking it up quickly. The other side of this is that wisdom is gained through experience, good or bad. A person can read about T's all day long, but until he/she starts taking care of one, it's all theory and no practice.
> 
> For me, I'm perfectly satisfied with my A. metallica, G. pulchra and B. boehmei.


And we LOVE to see people like you in the hobby.  The mix of passion, common sense, and humility.  You're the ones that will be here years down the road, passing the torch to the next generation.  It gives me hope for the future.

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## Formerphobe (Mar 1, 2014)

klawfran3 said:


> I don't get threat poses from my tarantulas. they usually just charge me fangs barred. it is quite a shocking sight to see a three inch A. Avic teleport up your tongs and narrowly miss you from a still position. take it from me, not all tarantulas throw a display. those that do are usually the "polite" ones.


Yeah, not all tarantulas are kind enough to offer threat poses before they attack.  My female LP is one that just cuts to the chase.  Evil wench, she is.

---------- Post added 03-01-2014 at 09:50 AM ----------




Poec54 said:


> Males do stupid 'guy' things.  Remember all those Dave Barry and Tim Allen jokes about it?  We're just primates that wear clothes, the 'well-dressed ape.'  I just don't see women using such poor judgement, and especially nowhere the frequency that guys do.  Some of those same guys find their way here, and that's why we try to slow anyone down that lacks the skill or experience for their planned acquisitions.  It's not a race, there's nothing to prove.  Take your time.  Everything will still be there when you're ready for them.



Thanks, Poec... coffee on the keyboard again.   
Indeed, it's not a race.  He who dies with the most tarantulas, bites, whatever, still dies, there is no prize.

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## Bergrider (Mar 1, 2014)

With that said if you have a small collection of NW T's and your playing hell trying to catch an escaped cricket it's probably a good idea and indication to wait on OW lol.

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## freedumbdclxvi (Mar 1, 2014)

klawfran3 said:


> I don't get threat poses from my tarantulas. they usually just charge me fangs barred. it is quite a shocking sight to see a three inch A. Avic teleport up your tongs and narrowly miss you from a still position. take it from me, not all tarantulas throw a display. those that do are usually the "polite" ones.


That's where experience comes in to know which spiders you own will give you warning and which will just attack.


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## bscheidt1020 (Mar 1, 2014)

Keith, good Point. Dang, that was direct and concise and honest…I appreciate that.

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## klawfran3 (Mar 1, 2014)

freedumbdclxvi said:


> That's where experience comes in to know which spiders you own will give you warning and which will just attack.


oh most definitely. luckily I have mostly "friendly" ones. the only tarantulas that ever try to attack me are my Avics. I call them "satan's minions" because they bolt straight at you for no reason trying to bite.


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## bscheidt1020 (Mar 1, 2014)

Poec, you're making sense to me with that last post. Most everybody I know won't be impressed by my spiders, they just think I am weird. No worries. Also, I can't wrap my head around the idea of people handling OW species…I can't really justify owning spiders if I end up missing work for flu like symptoms and agony caused by a spider bite because I decided to handle a Poecilotheria. My boss, my girl, and myself would think pretty ill of that and who could blame us?


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## Keith B (Mar 1, 2014)

bscheidt1020 said:


> Keith, good Point. Dang, that was direct and concise and honest…I appreciate that.


Glad you understand what I meant now.  I don't like what I say to be interpreted into a negative context.  I treat everyone on here with the equality and respect that I would ask of them, at least until they show me otherwise.  I gradually worked my way to advanced tarantulas, which has made my experiences easier, so I endorse that as the way to go.  I wouldn't single you out in a negative light like that for doing otherwise.  Only the ones who make lots of stupid unresearched, and inexcusable mistakes in the process, and still defend their questionable actions.  They've come up as a topic on this thread too, so I kinda squeaked them into my conversation, but I certainly wasn't classifying you as one.  You haven't done anything towards that end.


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## viper69 (Mar 1, 2014)

Keith B said:


> Glad you understand what I meant now.  I don't like what I say to be interpreted into a negative context.  I treat everyone on here with the equality and respect that I would ask of them, at least until they show me otherwise.  I gradually worked my way to advanced tarantulas, which has made my experiences easier, so I endorse that as the way to go.  I wouldn't single you out in a negative light like that for doing otherwise.  Only the ones who make lots of stupid unresearched, and inexcusable mistakes in the process, and still defend their questionable actions.  They've come up as a topic on this thread too, so I kinda squeaked them into my conversation, but I certainly wasn't classifying you as one.  You haven't done anything towards that end.


What an elitist, next Keith B is going to tell me male, pink Ts are all the rage!

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## Wildenthusiast (Mar 1, 2014)

Wow... its taken me two days to catch up with this thread. So many good points were made and debated. Among picking up a couple things that were new to me, I feel like I got to know most of you better by reading. What also impressed me was the debates staying positive, without much drama or namecalling. The criticism was constructive, and I think we all respect each other more after it all. There's some downright awesome folks on this forum. Glad to be a part of it.

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## bscheidt1020 (Mar 1, 2014)

I agree, I definitely got to know some of these people better and gained respect for all of em. A lot has gone on in this hobby and I am trying to catch up!


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## JohnBishop (Mar 2, 2014)

As a new owner, I have to say that looks matter very little to me.

My story is pretty bland though.  I've had a couple friends in the past year show me their collections and let me help them with certain things, like cage maintenance, setting up the environments, and feeding, of course.  Most of my friends have a mixed interest in pets, so they have other exotic pets as well, and I got time with them.  I love scorpions, but they don't seem to be something that you can really observe and note about their behavior, at least as much as T's.  This 'hands on' exploration really helped me to understand the differences between species, as reading a care sheet or a wiki entry doesn't really describe enough to figure out the full character of the organism.

That being sad, I lurked on the boards for a year+ reading numerous threads from T's to scorps, to tailless whip scorpions (LOVE these, but the market is really small in my area, only seen one available, one of the 'antennae' were broken), and the impression that I've taken away from all the experience that I've had is that T's are a great way to break into the hobby, and help support invert keeping better than the more niche markets.  After figuring this out, I started to look more into species, and focused on the NW as they aren't as fast or aggressive.  This lead me to Brachy's due to their popularity (so there's more readily available information to help me understand what my T's needs are) and disposition.

A couple of points to note, I really enjoy studying things to gain as much knowledge about them prior to engaging in the activity.  Everything from my school studies, to raising a range of organisms, I put in the time to learn about it so that I know I'm doing it right.  This is especially true as a pet owner, because they rely on you to exist at all, and inverts require more 'comforts' than mammals it seems.  Another point is that I grew up with a predisposed fear for spiders after having a scare when I was little.  So I don't *plan* on handling my T's, but if I needed to, I would want it to be with something that isn't the most defensive thing I could acquire.  This helps ease me into this as inverts are certainly an interesting, if not alien, species to study, and trying to understand how they work in their ecosystem is easier to imagine with more hands on experience.

From reading the thread, I guess I'm a minority, but it really is a great idea to have this information more generally available for those who interested.  I myself know that there are lots of people around here who have a passing interest in inverts after going to all the pet shops around here.  The literature they have is poor in quality (none of the pet stores carry the keeper's guide, it's not in the library, and the big bookstores don't keep them on hand, despite carrying enough books for horses to cover a large section) so the typical person here wouldn't even be aware of the book.  Not everyone has internet available either, it's not a rural area per se, but the internet is limited. This creates a vacuum of knowledge that only a handful of people I know have any experience in (even in bad talking the pet stores earlier, the invert and other herp handlers actually do have _correct_ knowledge for those who would ask it).  Sadly this would hurt either the trade, or just the T's in general due to negligence.

After all the experience and research, I went around to the stores to see if there were any that caught my eye, and by that I just mean things I enjoyed watching, so I was a fly on the wall for the better part of an hour in each store that carried T's.  I eventually went to a store that had some on consignment, buying on consignment would help both the breeder and the store for repeat business, and  they wouldn't be readily available elsewhere, and figured I should watch them a little more.  Now these were slings, and I did enough reading to know that an adult female is easier to care for, but I felt like if the species was hardy enough, that I could handle it and gain some experience in raising little ones.  So I spent a while in the store, reading all the care sheets and articles I could on the species offered. I eventually decided on the Honduran curly hair, due to them appearing unique with the curled hair, and their burrowing, docile nature (though it's caused some worry if you've read my thread, but getting over that has been easy, with help form the community, and with time).  I couldn't enjoy it more, especially to see it poking out of it's burrow and running around his enclosure, however long that may last.  I still haven't seen it eat, as I prefer to put a cricket in and let it find it on it's own, so as to mimic a more natural feeding method (not that natural is the most important thing, which I've learned quite well after reading this forum over and over again).

tl;dr Noob/novice - Brachypelma albopilosum

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## Keith B (Mar 2, 2014)

viper69 said:


> What an elitist, next Keith B is going to tell me male, pink Ts are all the rage!


Much like you're going to keep spreading your Euathlus propaganda until we all have one, dwarf boy   hahaha.  On a serious note, I showed my fiancee the ad you were looking at, and she's really interested in one now.  Maybe sooner than I thought 

---------- Post added 03-02-2014 at 02:15 PM ----------




JohnBishop said:


> The literature they have is poor in quality (none of the pet stores carry the keeper's guide, it's not in the library, and the big bookstores don't keep them on hand, despite carrying enough books for horses to cover a large section) so the typical person here wouldn't even be aware of the book.  Not everyone has internet available either, it's not a rural area per se, but the internet is limited. This creates a vacuum of knowledge that only a handful of people I know have any experience in (even in bad talking the pet stores earlier, the invert and other herp handlers actually do have _correct_ knowledge for those who would ask it).  Sadly this would hurt either the trade, or just the T's in general due to negligence.


Totally agreed they still sell Ts at pet stores without bothering with good literature.  The Petco near me offers a wide range of the animal planet books, but not Michael Jacobi's.  There's no books on them on the shelves, and at Petsmart there's only a pamphlet on G. rosea with loads of incorrect care and species information.  It's sad to me.

I tried scorpions before too.  I might have had males, because the lifespan was boringly short.  Probably just had a bad first personal experience, but I didn't go back.  There's also a lack of variety to me.  Black, brown, black and brown, a little bigger, a little smaller, more or less venomous, and that's about it, and they all hide all day.  I still like scorpions, but they don't attract me as "pets" like tarantulas do.  I see them more as perfect roommates.  They live in my home, keep me entertained when I'm bored, don't eat all my favorite foods and destroy my couch, and stay out of my way when I'm busy   Only downside is they are unemployed so I get no help with the rent.


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## freedumbdclxvi (Mar 2, 2014)

Wow, there are so many other colors with scorpions - I find them absolutely amazing.


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## Keith B (Mar 2, 2014)

yeah sorry I forgot about the reddish ones, and the yellow to somewhat orangeish.  Guess I got a little vague there.  I was just saying in comparison with the color and behavior varieties with tarantulas, I find them less interesting.  Still fascinating, but I want so many Ts that I kinda just passed up on keeping scorpions.


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## freedumbdclxvi (Mar 2, 2014)

Fair enough.  . I have found myself feeling that way about most tarantulas in favor of true spiders.  Ctenids in particular.


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## viper69 (Mar 2, 2014)

Keith B said:


> Much like you're going to keep spreading your Euathlus propaganda until we all have one, dwarf boy   hahaha.  On a serious note, I showed my fiancee the ad you were looking at, and she's really interested in one now.  Maybe sooner than I thought .



Propaganda my rear, I speak the truth from the Tarantula Pulpit! These "species" of sp Red and sp Yellow ROCK the house for those that want a manageable, HIGHLY human tolerant (read DOCILE) tarantula. And for those that have the desire to handle their T, let the proof speak for itself. My female is a great eater too! Far from the once a month regime most have published.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eynusLViSw


Man, I can't help it your fiance likes my taste in Ts better than yours!!


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## Tomoran (Mar 2, 2014)

viper69 said:


> Propaganda my rear, I speak the truth from the Tarantula Pulpit! These "species" of sp Red and sp Yellow ROCK the house for those that want a manageable, HIGHLY human tolerant (read DOCILE) tarantula. And for those that have the desire to handle their T, let the proof speak for itself. My female is a great eater too! Far from the once a month regime most have published.


An enthusiastic +1 for all the reasons you state above. For all of those looking for a T who really doesn't seem to mind interaction (and, dare I say, almost seems to seek it out). Cute, docile, inquisitive, and a great eater. This is the one I bring out to show folks who have a deep fear of Ts.  I just fear some folks don't give them a chance due to them being a dwarf species.

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## viper69 (Mar 2, 2014)

Tomoran said:


> An enthusiastic +1 for all the reasons you state above. For all of those looking for a T who really doesn't seem to mind interaction (and, dare I say, almost seems to seek it out). Cute, docile, inquisitive, and a great eater. This is the one I bring out to show folks who have a deep fear of Ts.  I just fear some folks don't give them a chance due to them being a dwarf species.



Very, very true. Myself and many others report on what we call "curiosity". My female sp Yellow, once the lid is off, is up and climbing to explore. I have built her a nice hide, and she is always outside her hide with minor exceptions. She's not a pet rock at all compared to my Brachys or Grammas. She's the only T I have that when touched with something, doesn't head off, or look to run. She typically withdraws her leg, sometimes not even moving it, but adjusting the angle of it. My Brachy's which are pretty docile relatively, are more protective.

These sp Red and sp Yellow Ts are a very, very cautious species. But they are excellent eaters once they get some a little size on them.

The only specimen I have that comes close to matching (99.9%) her disposition is my female Chaco Golden Knee, she's another Dora the Explora' and HIGHLY human and cricket tolerant hahah.


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## Keith B (Mar 2, 2014)

freedumbdclxvi said:


> Fair enough.  . I have found myself feeling that way about most tarantulas in favor of true spiders.  Ctenids in particular.


True spiders are amazing in variety, but that's where my fiancee comes in like with what I was saying to Viper.  The smaller the spider the less she wants it lol.  At least looking at Euathlus is growing on her.  It's a start.

---------- Post added 03-02-2014 at 04:43 PM ----------




viper69 said:


> Propaganda my rear, I speak the truth from the Tarantula Pulpit! These "species" of sp Red and sp Yellow ROCK the house for those that want a manageable, HIGHLY human tolerant (read DOCILE) tarantula. And for those that have the desire to handle their T, let the proof speak for itself. My female is a great eater too! Far from the once a month regime most have published.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eynusLViSw
> 
> ...


Yeah, I saw that video the last time you posted it propaganda   haha.  She thinks they're cute, but that's not representative of her taste.  She absolutely loves our B. smithi.  She used to handle her all the time before we decided to handle much less.  She's a sucker for pretty, so our A. versicolor female is her total favorite.


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## viper69 (Mar 2, 2014)

Keith B said:


> True spiders are amazing in variety, but that's where my fiancee comes in like with what I was saying to Viper.  The smaller the spider the less she wants it lol.  At least looking at Euathlus is growing on her.  It's a start.
> 
> ---------- Post added 03-02-2014 at 04:43 PM ----------
> 
> ...


Hahahahah I always post that one, it's great. Man, you don't don't want to admit that you want one too now!!!  Ah, but isn't taste representative of a broad spectrum of likes? And thus, that Eua. sp Red/Yellow represents her taste heheheeheheh


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## catfishrod69 (Mar 2, 2014)

I find Euathlus to be extremely boring. I had a adult female red, and a yellow sling. While the red female was extremely gentle and docile, that equally made her so boring i couldnt take it. Ended up selling them both lol.


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## viper69 (Mar 2, 2014)

catfishrod69 said:


> I find Euathlus to be extremely boring. I had a adult female red, and a yellow sling. While the red female was extremely gentle and docile, that equally made her so boring i couldnt take it. Ended up selling them both lol.


Catfish- 21st Century Tarantula Tamer or Tarantula Taunter---Tune In and Judge!

TV Rating- MA> The producers are not liable for any human gore you may see in the filming

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## Keith B (Mar 2, 2014)

viper69 said:


> Hahahahah I always post that one, it's great. Man, you don't don't want to admit that you want one too now!!!  Ah, but isn't taste representative of a broad spectrum of likes? And thus, that Eua. sp Red/Yellow represents her taste heheheeheheh


Oh I already have admitted I would get one, but I was more partial to finding E. vulpinus cause I like the look of them.  Hoping they turn up again someday, if I'm not just looking in the wrong places.


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## freedumbdclxvi (Mar 2, 2014)

catfishrod69 said:


> I find Euathlus to be extremely boring. I had a adult female red, and a yellow sling. While the red female was extremely gentle and docile, that equally made her so boring i couldnt take it. Ended up selling them both lol.


Heresy!  

---------- Post added 03-02-2014 at 06:08 PM ----------




Keith B said:


> True spiders are amazing in variety, but that's where my fiancee comes in like with what I was saying to Viper.  The smaller the spider the less she wants it lol.  At least looking at Euathlus is growing on her.  It's a start.


I'm fortunate in that my fiancée doesn't mind what I get.  She isn't a fan of scorpions or centipedes, but she still lets me get them.

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## viper69 (Mar 2, 2014)

Keith B said:


> Oh I already have admitted I would get one, but I was more partial to finding E. vulpinus cause I like the look of them.  Hoping they turn up again someday, if I'm not just looking in the wrong places.


I know, I want that answer on a public-facing board and not an email  heheheh


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## Poec54 (Mar 2, 2014)

catfishrod69 said:


> I find Euathlus to be extremely boring. I had a adult female red, and a yellow sling. While the red female was extremely gentle and docile, that equally made her so boring i couldnt take it. Ended up selling them both lol.


+1.  And people think we're weird because we like our spiders fiesty and fast.

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## freedumbdclxvi (Mar 2, 2014)

Poec54 said:


> +1.  And people think we're weird because we like our spiders fiesty and fast.


Nobody loves feisty and fast more than me - I love owning Phoneutria.  But how can you dislike the embodiment of theraphosid sweetness that is a Euathlus sp red?


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## Poec54 (Mar 2, 2014)

freedumbdclxvi said:


> how can you dislike the embodiment of theraphosid sweetness that is a Euathlus sp red?


I don't 'dislike' any tarantula.  They're all fantastic animals.  But space is always limited, and like Catfishrod says, the docile ones are kind of bland.  I do have a few of them, as some are beautiful, but the vast majority of my collection is tropical, arboreal, OW, or some combination of that.  They're more fun when they're 'spirited.'  To me the lean, athletic build of arboreals with long legs and big scopulae is the ultimate spider form.  I love the way their front metatarsi curve out and the tarsi curve in.

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## Wildenthusiast (Mar 2, 2014)

Poec54 said:


> To me the lean, athletic build of arboreals with long legs and big scopulae is the ultimate spider form.  I love the way their front metatarsi curve out and the tarsi curve in.


I have always found that form to be the most desirable of all tarantula builds as well. Something about it makes them irresistible to look at.


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## Merfolk (Mar 3, 2014)

Went to a pet shop
The guy shown me yellow scorps, didn't know what so they were...
Said his employee ordered them, a 14 something kid had pledged to buy.
The containers had LQ written on them.
He put them in the freezer...


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## AzJohn (Mar 3, 2014)

Merfolk said:


> Went to a pet shop
> The guy shown me yellow scorps, didn't know what so they were...
> Said his employee ordered them, a 14 something kid had pledged to buy.
> The containers had LQ written on them.
> He put them in the freezer...


For the tarantula only hobbiest, LQ would stand for the scientific name of the death stalker scorpion. I'm not going to try and spell the real name. The analogy is a little bit off in that any scorpion is easier to keep safe because they can't climb glass or smooth plastic, however a mistake with an LQ could very well kill you, at best it's a trip to the ER. It's kind of hard to compare tarantulas with scorpions. OW tarantulas are faster and can climb glass, but hot scorpions kill thousands of people yearly, world wide.Your point about pet stores selling anything to any one is well made. Good pet stores will at least ask the potential buyer how they plan to keep it, but good pet stores are few and far between.


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## Sharno (Mar 3, 2014)

With an inexperienced tarantula enthusiast, what do you all think of them making purchases of what you'd consider "advanced" species, but they are slings?  Point being, it will be some time before the sling is of a significant size - all learning time for the hobbyist. A sling OBT measuring well under an inch poses what kind of risk to a newbie?  The risk of maybe bolting when they go to feed it or rehouse it - but not a medically significant bite.  Just a lost tarantula and a lesson learned the hard way.  Next OBT that makes it through a few molts is going to be treated with more caution.

When people are warning newbies about the risks involved with pokies, etc., are most of these people going out and buying adults?  They are probably buying expensive slings.  Maybe I am wrong.  But especially around these parts (AB), I think a lot of people new to the hobby are getting their feet wet maybe with slings or juvies at best, and aren't most impressive sized tarantulas a good bit of money?  Unless they are a rosie, or something else fairly common.

OBTs, suntigers I guess are examples of fairly common tarantulas in the hobby that can be acquired inexpensively even at a decent size.  I can agree that's problematic.

With the exception of being *prepared* when dealing with a fast, defensive, angry, and venom-significant tarantula, what constitutes experience?  The potential to "freak out" when a tarantula goes astray and ends up running up your arm can be countered with time, I guess. But as someone who loves this animal I have never been freaked out by them on me, moving unpredictably or do I handle them carelessly - but I feel like people who are nervous, unsure, or would be prone to having a freak out moment when a tarantula suddenly bolts or gets defensive is probably going to still have a freak out moment even after they have dealt with their tarantulas over time.

But I am not sure -- are there people who feel like in the beginning they were really nervous/freaking out when their tarantula moved fast on them, etc. - but after some time are totally comfortable?  Is there a learning curve? Since the age of 5 I wanted one, and had one by the time I was a young teenager (back in the 80s - not like it is now).  I was never afraid of them - I respected them, sure, but I was not radically uncomfortable at the knowledge that they were unpredictable.


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## Poec54 (Mar 3, 2014)

Sharno said:


> With an inexperienced tarantula enthusiast, what do you all think of them making purchases of what you'd consider "advanced" species, but they are slings?  Point being, it will be some time before the sling is of a significant size - all learning time for the hobbyist. A sling OBT measuring well under an inch poses what kind of risk to a newbie?
> 
> When people are warning newbies about the risks involved with pokies, etc., are most of these people going out and buying adults?  They are probably buying expensive slings.  Maybe I am wrong.
> With the exception of being *prepared* when dealing with a fast, defensive, angry, and venom-significant tarantula, what constitutes experience?  The potential to "freak out" when a tarantula goes astray and ends up running up your arm can be countered with time, I guess. But as someone who loves this animal I have never been freaked out by them on me, moving unpredictably or do I handle them carelessly - but I feel like people who are nervous, unsure, or would be prone to having a freak out moment when a tarantula suddenly bolts or gets defensive is probably going to still have a freak out moment even after they have dealt with their tarantulas over time.
> ...


The problem with your logic is that OBT's and Poecs both grow very fast, males mature in a year or less.  Both are very easy and timid as slings, that's not the issue.  But a few months later as juveniles their personalities change and their bites pack a punch, not enough time for most beginners to shift gears and realize that his animal had changed.  While a certain percentage of people can deal with that sucessfully, they are terrible choices for the vast majority beginners, hence the contuned advice we give to that effect.  Some people can stay calm when a large, fast, angry spider is running around the room, or on them, most can't.  That's a formula for bites and escapes.  It isn't fair to that person, the other people that live in the house, or to the spider.

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## SuzukiSwift (Mar 3, 2014)

I'm a little late joining this thread but I want to say I agree with definitely agree with Storm on this one. Maybe brand new keepers want to get hot species as a sort of 'initiation' to feel included, but they need to remember that pretty much all the advanced hobbyists started off at level one, myself included. I keep S.calceatum, pokies, haplos, chilobrachys etc. however my first three Ts were G.rosea, A.avic, and B.smithi and I can not stress enough how helpful it was to start off slow, you learn the essence of tarantula keeping, how they react to stimuli BEFORE you take those effects and times them by 10. 

On the other hand I think we do need to give the new keepers a bit of a break, bearing down on them hard when they ask for advice can be detrimental. However if they refuse to take advice from seasoned keepers like ourselves then it's on their own heads. No matter how much you think you're ready, OBT is NOT an acceptable first species. Like Poec just said, only some people can remain calm in hot situations but most can't. You want to get used to these types of situations with avics and roseas rather than with murinus and regalis -_-

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## bscheidt1020 (Mar 3, 2014)

I have two Euathlus Red slings and am psyched to see them put on size and have a bit of that curiosity! I also have a few OW's and am awaiting that switch in their personality…They seem perfectly workable now, more nervous than anything….Like little volcanos waiting for me to get complacent...


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## viper69 (Mar 3, 2014)

bscheidt1020 said:


> I have two Euathlus Red slings and am psyched to see them put on size and have a bit of that curiosity! I also have a few OW's and am awaiting that switch in their personality…They seem perfectly workable now, more nervous than anything….Like little volcanos waiting for me to get complacent...


What size are your sp Reds? Mine is about 1/8", it was smaller last year!


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## cold blood (Mar 3, 2014)

viper69 said:


> What size are your sp Reds? Mine is about 1/8", it was smaller last year!


Whoa, really?  its a year old and only 1/8"?   That's a small star and some special slow growth.   Or do you mean last year, like December?


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## viper69 (Mar 3, 2014)

cold blood said:


> Whoa, really?  its a year old and only 1/8"?   That's a small star and some special slow growth.   Or do you mean last year, like December?


I didn't write it was a year old hahahaha, picked it up in the fall. You crack me up Cold

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## bscheidt1020 (Mar 3, 2014)

MIne are about 1/3" or so…That is a wild guess…They are shy and in the burrow almost always but will go for a walk at night. They also eat pretty good compared to stories I have heard. They do well with dead crickets cut in half or little pinheads…Love these guys, they are one of the few docile terrestrials that I am interested in. Mostly, the arboreals and defensive ground dwellers interest me but E. Red are so cool!


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## viper69 (Mar 3, 2014)

bscheidt1020 said:


> MIne are about 1/3" or so…That is a wild guess…They are shy and in the burrow almost always but will go for a walk at night. They also eat pretty good compared to stories I have heard. They do well with dead crickets cut in half or little pinheads…Love these guys, they are one of the few docile terrestrials that I am interested in. Mostly, the arboreals and defensive ground dwellers interest me but E. Red are so cool!


Well my sp Red doesn't burrow, he started, and then stopped hah.  My larger sp Yellow about 1", it burrows like no other T I've ever owned. I posted pics a while back, and my female sp Yellow, she's great too.

Like you, mine are great eaters, not like anything I've read on the forum either. My sp Red is tiny so it doesn't eat too frequently. But my sp Yellows, they eat way more than the reported once a month.

I need some adult sp Reds next!


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## Keith B (Mar 3, 2014)

Had a minor complacent moment last night actually.  Usually scare my young GBB into it's hide under the webbing when I open the enclosure to feed it.  One time I dropped a cricket on top of it, and it caught it out of the air.  Last night it didn't run in and stayed on top of the webbing, so I figured I'd try dropping the cricket on the opposite side of the webbing and see if it went running at it.  Instead, it got startled and ran out onto the side of the container.  My fiancee started to panic like hell, and I held my hand out to her, gesturing to relax and be quiet.  It sat there for about 30 seconds, then walked right back in to it's webbing, eventually killing the cricket but after I got the lid back on.  Years ago when I was only keeping roseas I'd have wigged out and it would be gone.  Even trying to cup it right then, on the side of a small latchbox, could've resulted in it running into cracks and crevices.  I just let it calm down and go home.  Still, it's an episode of stupid complacence and expectance on my part that should be avoided.  Plan on all scenarios.

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## SuzukiSwift (Mar 3, 2014)

Keith B said:


> Had a minor complacent moment last night actually.  Usually scare my young GBB into it's hide under the webbing when I open the enclosure to feed it.  One time I dropped a cricket on top of it, and it caught it out of the air.  Last night it didn't run in and stayed on top of the webbing, so I figured I'd try dropping the cricket on the opposite side of the webbing and see if it went running at it.  Instead, it got startled and ran out onto the side of the container.  My fiancee started to panic like hell, and I held my hand out to her, gesturing to relax and be quiet.  It sat there for about 30 seconds, then walked right back in to it's webbing, eventually killing the cricket but after I got the lid back on.  Years ago when I was only keeping roseas I'd have wigged out and it would be gone.  Even trying to cup it right then, on the side of a small latchbox, could've resulted in it running into cracks and crevices.  I just let it calm down and go home.  Still, it's an episode of stupid complacence and expectance on my part that should be avoided.  Plan on all scenarios.


+1 This is exactly what I'm talking about, new keepers are not used to spiders yet and therefore most would panic making the situation worse. What is required is patience as Keith illustrated! A freaked out owner equals a freaked out T. 

I remember a similar situation when I was rehousing my H.lividum, I was moving her in the bathtub (she's kinda nuts so I had a broom just in case, turns out I did need it lol) Anyway, my sister and girlfriend were both watching me do this and when I gave her (the lividum) the first touch with the paint brush on the back leg she attacked it then ran out of the enclosure and half way up the bath tub towards us. The girls started to freak out but just like Keith I motioned for them to calm down, placed the broom at the top of the bath in front of my Cobalt, and after thinking about my next move for a minute, touched her back leg with the paint brush. As soon as she ran up and felt the broom I gave it a little vibration and she ran all the way back down the bath and right into her new enclosure

Also as Keith said, plan for all scenarios, have multiple catch cups, brushes, even brooms if necessary ready. And if your T freaks out, just wait patiently, it's not gona go running away if you don't give it a reason to

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## viper69 (Mar 3, 2014)

Keith B another reason why you need a Eau. sp Red/Yellow  You need a T that you can keep up with


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## catfishrod69 (Mar 3, 2014)

Here is some observations. Rehoused 26 tarantulas a couple hours ago. All of them were between 1.5 and 3". Turns out when you are rehousing the more calm species, always expect them to go nuts and try to escape. I rehoused 7 S. calceatum, only one of them was all over me. A quick and easy capture. Rehoused some H. marksi, a C. olivaceum, C. marshalli, C. darlingi, Poecis, etc. Turns out the worst was a little P. irminia that made a bolt for it, twice. I figured the marksi and olivaceum were gonna be the worst. Ended up with a few that wanted to crawl around on me, P. smithi, H. marksi, S. calceatum, P. irminia, and C. marshalli. ALways remember its the shy calm ones that you have to look out for.

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## Formerphobe (Mar 3, 2014)

I always keep catch cups scattered around the room during feedings, photo shoots, rehousings, etc.  You don't want to have to find out at 3:30 a.m. that you can open rubbermaid containers with your toes while holding an errant M. balfouri in your cupped hands.  Not that I would know anything about that.....  LOL

Just today, while snapping pictures with the lid off, one of my MM M. balfouri strolled out of the enclosure.  I automatically put my hand out to catch him as he came over the edge.  I had 4 catch cups right handy, but he walked my hands nonchalantly and back into the enclosure.  After the fact, I had flashbacks of chasing his aunt around the room in the wee hours a few years ago.  LOL

---------- Post added 03-03-2014 at 07:56 PM ----------




catfishrod69 said:


> Here is some observations. Rehoused 26 tarantulas a couple hours ago. All of them were between 1.5 and 3". Turns out when you are rehousing the more calm species, always expect them to go nuts and try to escape. I rehoused 7 S. calceatum, only one of them was all over me. A quick and easy capture. Rehoused some H. marksi, a C. olivaceum, C. marshalli, C. darlingi, Poecis, etc. Turns out the worst was a little P. irminia that made a bolt for it, twice. I figured the marksi and olivaceum were gonna be the worst. Ended up with a few that wanted to crawl around on me, P. smithi, H. marksi, S. calceatum, P. irminia, and C. marshalli. ALways remember its the shy calm ones that you have to look out for.


I recently had to chase down one of my A. sp burica.  I never imagined that this calm little dude would go spazoid on me...  He was out of the enclosure and across the room in a heartbeat! Just when you think they're predictable...

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## catfishrod69 (Mar 3, 2014)

Lol yeah me too. I also use my cluttered mess of a room to strategically send them in the direction i want. I usually just use my hand anyways if one is climbing out. I mean if its one that is being very defensive or is known to be than i dont. But if its calm and usually is calm, bad venom/mild venom, i just hold my hand down for them to walk onto, then use a paintbrush to scurry them back off and into their home.


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## Keith B (Mar 3, 2014)

viper69 said:


> Keith B another reason why you need a Eau. sp Red/Yellow  You need a T that you can keep up with


Lol, maybe when I'm 60.  I used to run a 4.54 40. Let me at that H. lividum >.<

---------- Post added 03-03-2014 at 09:23 PM ----------




Formerphobe said:


> I always keep catch cups scattered around the room during feedings, photo shoots, rehousings, etc.  You don't want to have to find out at 3:30 a.m. that you can open rubbermaid containers with your toes while holding an errant M. balfouri in your cupped hands.  Not that I would know anything about that.....  LOL


And that is the hilarious statement of the day for me XD


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## Ospa (Mar 4, 2014)

*General Observation of T Keepers*

I'm not so sure I can agree with what you are saying, but I do respect your thought process. While I'm definitely not new to the hobby, or a first time T owner, I would still consider myself a beginner. In fact if you think about it we all are, even if you have been keeping these little guys for years and years. Why? Because everyone of them is different. Yeah, we can catalog them as far as terrestrial, arboreal, ow, nw, etc. etc. but each one of them is their own little person. One OBT is always gonna be different from another OBT. One GBB will always be different from another GBB. Just like us. If one is truly in love with these little guys, like I am, then they will post questions, get feed back, and do the research that they need to to keep their T's very happy and content. We should never consider ourselves experts (for lack of a better word) in this hobby because we are dealing with somethings life. And if we loose sight of that even for a split second, or assume we know more than this person then we might miss something and THEY loose not us. I'm not saying experience doesn't help, it does, but always remember no matter how long you have been keeping T's you should learn something new about them everyday. So just because someone is posting a question about which T to get, or how to do this or that, don't assume that they are new to this or that they are incapable and getting into something over their heads. I have had quite a few T's for a while and I still post questions like the ones I just stated and the ones being referred to in this thread, because I like to share thoughts, ideas and stories about the subject. Isn't that the whole purpose of this site? As a matter of fact most of the responses that I got were from people telling me don't get this if I don't have experience. I didn't get offended. I thanked them for their opinion.So instead of separating ourselves into "beginner" and "I've been keeping T's for years" lets put our egos in our pockets and nurture each other and offer whatever advice, opinion, and experience we have to each persons question so that their T's can be be happy because honestly that's the only thing that matters and that's why we are all here....isn't it? Thanks


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## Poec54 (Mar 4, 2014)

Ospa said:


> One OBT is always gonna be different from another OBT.


Not really, the vast majority of OBT's are very fast and confrontational.  Just like most GBB's are fairly high-strung.  No one's claiming to be an expert; some people have more experience with these animals than others.  We're all learning though.

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## bscheidt1020 (Mar 4, 2014)

Ospa, I'm with ya on all of that! Amen.

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## Keith B (Mar 4, 2014)

Ospa said:


> I'm not so sure I can agree with what you are saying, but I do respect your thought process. While I'm definitely not new to the hobby, or a first time T owner, I would still consider myself a beginner. In fact if you think about it we all are, even if you have been keeping these little guys for years and years. Why? Because everyone of them is different. Yeah, we can catalog them as far as terrestrial, arboreal, ow, nw, etc. etc. but each one of them is their own little person. One OBT is always gonna be different from another OBT. One GBB will always be different from another GBB. Just like us. If one is truly in love with these little guys, like I am, then they will post questions, get feed back, and do the research that they need to to keep their T's very happy and content. We should never consider ourselves experts (for lack of a better word) in this hobby because we are dealing with somethings life. And if we loose sight of that even for a split second, or assume we know more than this person then we might miss something and THEY loose not us. I'm not saying experience doesn't help, it does, but always remember no matter how long you have been keeping T's you should learn something new about them everyday. So just because someone is posting a question about which T to get, or how to do this or that, don't assume that they are new to this or that they are incapable and getting into something over their heads. I have had quite a few T's for a while and I still post questions like the ones I just stated and the ones being referred to in this thread, because I like to share thoughts, ideas and stories about the subject. Isn't that the whole purpose of this site? As a matter of fact most of the responses that I got were from people telling me don't get this if I don't have experience. I didn't get offended. I thanked them for their opinion.So instead of separating ourselves into "beginner" and "I've been keeping T's for years" lets put our egos in our pockets and nurture each other and offer whatever advice, opinion, and experience we have to each persons question so that their T's can be be happy because honestly that's the only thing that matters and that's why we are all here....isn't it? Thanks


I agree with you in the sense that we should be open towards eachother and keep learning new things.  I don't think anyone is claiming to be an expert, and I'm certainly not one of them.  I'm not on here to be "complacent in my expertness" or anything like that lol.  I try to help others with questions they have, keep up on current events, and I find out things that I didn't know yet pretty often.  Your post is a good fit into the "elitist" portion of our conversation.  Not so much for the original topic.  In regards to the original topic, it addresses a specific issue that shouldn't be confused for not nurturing new keepers, which it seems it may have been to some effect.  

There are no experts, but there certainly are beginners and people with experience, and it makes a difference.  I can't agree on just nurturing anybody's desire to have any tarantula, because that allows for a lot of risky scenarios.  The people with experience on here do this for the reason you stated, we love the animals, enjoy the people in it, and love and protect the hobby for everyone to enjoy.  Experienced keepers offer sound advice to keepers on here daily, and one of the topics of disdain it seems is that first tarantula, when someone asks if an advanced species is a good first tarantula, and we do the responsible thing and say "no".  

It's not like we can force a beginner to get a rose hair.  There's plenty of information on those species archived in these forums.  If they want it, they can find the care information, and go get it.  If we don't support their action, so be it.  We just don't support the action.    We just don't want a circumstance to arise where somebody or their tarantula, or both, gets injured.  We don't want a 12 year old begging his/her reluctant mother for his first tarantula, to be recommended a fast and aggressive and highly venomous species, get bitten and hospitalized and the media called.  We don't want a big-headed teenager showing off his T to his friends, taking it out, and a friend who doesn't like spiders gets bitten and injured, and speaks out against them.  There is potential for injury to the tarantula, keeper, siblings, bystanders, pets, and the hobby itself.  

This is simply one piece of advice people with experience get on board about and attempt to express to beginners.  Most of these keepers started out the same way they're preaching, and some that didn't often say they could've used the experience.  It's not about shunning a beginner.  If you were to get an OW T as a beginner, I'd tell you to wait.  Doesn't mean I won't try to help you keep it if you go out and get it.  I still don't want you or the T to get hurt.  I don't wish for that cause my advice was ignored.  But I do wish beginners would start out the way I did, cause I personally believe it helps.

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