# Pokie Bites!



## Mojo Jojo (Nov 8, 2002)

I just found this at Phongs. It is kind of disturbing, as I know many of you own Pokies. Please take a look at it. 

http://www.bighairyspiders.com/poec.html 

Big Dragonfly 

PS. I have heard that Psalmopoeuses are closely related to Pokies. Can anyone verify this? Would their bite be similar?


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## conipto (Nov 8, 2002)

I have read similar stories about pokie bites before (One that had put someone in a coma).  It's almost impossible to prove/disprove these tales, especially when you factor in the possibility of hypersensitive reactions, or even psychosematic ones (Yes, I know that may be a little jackassish to say...)  However, not being one to take chances like this, I designed the enclosure I showed in the thread "Ugly but effective" for just this genus of T.  I think the number of reports make the risk worth taking the extra effort involved in making a setup that decreases chances of being bitten.  Of especially credible note, is the fact that of the 7-8 spider bite reports listed in the T keepers guide by the schultzes, The writer explains the symptoms of this particular genus as being worse than the others by far.

At any rate, perhaps this is why nature put the big blatant yellow and black caution sign around the immediate biting area of most pokes.   Still though, I think like anything else, if you understand the potential for harm, and treat it accordingly, this T is far from a bad idea to keep.

Even with my general lack of experience, I beleive that common sense and careful practices make me and others like me capable of raising these without incident.

Just my 2 cents,

Bill


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## conipto (Nov 8, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Big Dragonfly _
> *
> PS. I have heard that Psalmopoeuses are closely related to Pokies. Can anyone verify this? Would their bite be similar? *


Missed this part the first time.  I have not heard this, and aside from both being fast, arboreal, and mean, they don't seem to have much in common that I can see with the non-biology oriented mind.  Although if you look at the projected maps of what pangea would have looked like, you have a nice little strip where india, southern africa, and south america interconnect.  So I suppose it's possible.  All in all, I'd like to hear the hard science on the actual physical relationship between the two, rather than my 12:00am bored researching ability 

Bill


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## Alonso99 (Nov 8, 2002)

That bite seems to have been very very painful, that story should make us aware of the certain precautions one must take with pokies


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## minax (Nov 8, 2002)

*Quote: Sam Marshall*

"one of the facinating things about the genus psalmopoeus is that it is most closely related to the genus poecilotheria of the old world. In fact ,when the trinidad chevron was first described, it was assumed to have come from the east indies and not the west indies as claimed by the collection label"
                                                  Tarantulas and other Arachnids
                         Is'nt that great? , my p. cambridgei is one of my favourites; beautiful and badass!! I love arachnid research, It's so interesting, don't you agree?


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## Vys (Nov 8, 2002)

I....think I'll stick to avics.
Sure, as someone above said, if you treat it woth respect and etc etc etc etc...still, there's always the possibility of a bite since these animals won't exactly develop any kind of fuzzy feeling for you.


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## Code Monkey (Nov 8, 2002)

Yep, from what I've read in books and heard on these boards from reputable people, the Psalmopoeus genus is *very* closely related to Poecilotheria (right down to being only one of two new world genera without urticating hair of any kind). Your comfort level with said beasties would come down to whether that strong venom was a character of their common ancestral line, or whether it's a more recent development for the pokies.

I can't recall ever seeing a Psalmopoeus bite report, but I've seen severe short term effects and lasting muscle tics described from pokies from multiple sources.


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## Vayu Son (Nov 8, 2002)

*><*

aye, dont get bit.

-V


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## Chris (Nov 8, 2002)

I too have to wonder how many of these symptoms were from the bite and how many were in his head.

The only real way to prove something like this is to try a placebo... someone stab him with a couple of needles when he is around a pokie and let him think the spider did it... I would be curious to see what happens after  lol


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## Code Monkey (Nov 8, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Chris _
> *I too have to wonder how many of these symptoms were from the bite and how many were in his head.
> 
> The only real way to prove something like this is to try a placebo... someone stab him with a couple of needles when he is around a pokie and let him think the spider did it... I would be curious to see what happens after  lol *


I've got to wonder at the flippant attitude from T keepers who just don't want to believe there might be something slightly dangerous about OW species. If the bite of tiny widow can leave a grown man sweating with muscle cramps and pain for a day or two, why is it so hard to believe that an 8" spider can do the same? No one feels the need to be skeptical if someone says they got bit by a subspinipes and "it was the worst pain I ever felt, I would have practically cut my own arm off it hurt so bad", but let someone make a similar claim about a tarantula and out come the apologists.
I have NEVER heard of a placebo effect on the scale that I have heard for many old world species bites. Placebo effects are things like nausea and headaches, not shooting, burning pain throughout a limb for 24 hours, not muscle tics that last days to months.


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## Vayu Son (Nov 8, 2002)

*><*

I am a firm believer that if you  get bit on the neck or any other severe soft tissue areas then you will die without treatment. Exothermae vol.1 has accounts of stromatoplema bites that include cardiovascular abnormalities and SEVERE swelling. Poecilotheriinae may be more significant than stromatopelmiinae. We just dont know at this point. DONT GET BIT.

-V


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## Chris (Nov 8, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Code Monkey _
> *I've got to wonder at the flippant attitude from T keepers who just don't want to believe there might be something slightly dangerous about OW species. If the bite of tiny widow can leave a grown man sweating with muscle cramps and pain for a day or two, why is it so hard to believe that an 8" spider can do the same? No one feels the need to be skeptical if someone says they got bit by a subspinipes and "it was the worst pain I ever felt, I would have practically cut my own arm off it hurt so bad", but let someone make a similar claim about a tarantula and out come the apologists.
> I have NEVER heard of a placebo effect on the scale that I have heard for many old world species bites. Placebo effects are things like nausea and headaches, not shooting, burning pain throughout a limb for 24 hours, not muscle tics that last days to months. *


I am not saying he didnt experience any of the symptoms as a result of the bite... I am approaching this scientifically.  Any true experiement has to have a control of some sort... and a placebo test is a good one.

And this isn't only about tarantulas.  I wonder the same about any bite in fact... when something people are afraid of bites, you automatically blame any irregularities on that.  Muscle spasms and tightening can occurr for lots of reasons... lack of sleep and stress are 2 definite causes (I speak from experience)  And worrying over a bite can cause both of those.  I think pain is a very relative term too because we all have a different pain thresshold.

I can't speak from experience on any of these bites though because I haven't been bitten by anything but non venomous reptiles.  I just find some of these symptoms described to be a bit far fetched is all... when you clear up and are fine how do you all of a sudden get violently ill again later?  Maybe there are lingering effects but it just strikes me as wierd that he recovered then relapsed.  This sounds more like an allergic reaction to me rather than venom effects.


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## ArachnoJoost (Nov 8, 2002)

> * I quickly tried to cover the jar with my hand *


After reading this, I'll be very careful not to get bit by any Poke. However, I'd never try to cover a jar with a potentially dangerous species with my hand if they tried to escape. First, I do the maintenance in the bath, so if it tried to escape, I'd let it go and recapture it. If this guy wasn't aware of the potent venom of the Poke, he does now and will never do that again. If he was aware, he was being stupid (and he'll never do that again...).



> * She stayed on my hand for about 15-20 seconds then I flung her off my hand back into the jar *


Another thing I don't quite understand: I do not know how I would react to being bitten, but I think I'd not let it bite for 15-20 secs before flinging it back into its jar.


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## Lasiodora (Nov 8, 2002)

Don't get bit and you won't have to worry about the effects of their venom.
Mike
_______________________
"QUESTION:
WHEN WILL THERE BE PEACE ON EARTH?
ANSWER: WHEN THE EARTH FALLS TO PIECES!!"
Tupac Shakur


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## Tranz (Nov 8, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Code Monkey _
> *I've got to wonder at the flippant attitude from T keepers who just don't want to believe there might be something slightly dangerous about OW species. If the bite of tiny widow can leave a grown man sweating with muscle cramps and pain for a day or two, why is it so hard to believe that an 8" spider can do the same? No one feels the need to be skeptical if someone says they got bit by a subspinipes and "it was the worst pain I ever felt, I would have practically cut my own arm off it hurt so bad", but let someone make a similar claim about a tarantula and out come the apologists.
> I have NEVER heard of a placebo effect on the scale that I have heard for many old world species bites. Placebo effects are things like nausea and headaches, not shooting, burning pain throughout a limb for 24 hours, not muscle tics that last days to months. *



I guess I'll stick to my little G. Pulchra, which is terrifying enough for me.  Heck, I get squeamish just mainlining angel dust.


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## Phillip (Nov 8, 2002)

*The problem I have with these reports..*

The biggest problem I see with most of the bite reports would be the descriptions of nausea and shortness of breath. Not saying that it can't happen from the bite but it can just as easily be brought on by someone experiencing a panic attack brought on by having taken a bite from a huge spider. With the exception of the muscle cramps and even to an extent that can be greatly overexaggerated just about all the syptoms you hear of come real close to the syptoms of a panic attack. Now am I saying that a poke bite is harmless? Not by any means but what I am saying is that there are keepers around who have taken bites from the supposedly hot species and been just fine. These keepers have also not been overly afraid of what they were handling when they got bitten so it makes you think. And for the record no I am not saying that the report is false or made up but I am saying that I've seen grown men cry like a little girl when getting a shot at the doctor as well. It's all about individual tolerance same as some can handle the tatoo needle and some cant. Hell I've seen guys cry for weeks over a broken arm. I just believe that a lot of overstatement of the effects takes place on some of these reports.
Phil


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## AlbinoDragon829 (Nov 8, 2002)

The effects of that bite sound very sidistic.  But, guys, come on...  Any better advice than "don't get bit"?  lol


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## MrDeranged (Nov 8, 2002)

Most pokes will run and hide before going into "Defensive" mode.  Make sure that they know you're there and alot bigger than they are by knocking on their enclosure a couple of times before opening it.  In general, they'll run to their hide and stay there till your done.

Scott


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## Code Monkey (Nov 8, 2002)

I agree that these extreme reports may just be unusual reactions or even exaggerated somewhat. Or it may just be that they are the result of a much more extreme envenomation. Short of getting a bunch of people together as medical volunteers to have fixed quanities of tarantula venom administed along with placebo controls we will never know with certainty unless we're on the personal end of a Ts fangs.

Still, what I do tend to pay attention to are trends. And while it just might be a statistical skewing because people get bit more often by old worlders than new world species, there certainly are a lot more severe reports about old worlders than new world Ts.


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## conipto (Nov 8, 2002)

On the relationship of the two species, I just noticed this, posted by Code_monkey in the "Haplopelma albostriatum?" thread started by scott.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The list below was contributed by Luc Ross, Rick West, and Volker von Wirth. The genera listed don’t have tibial apophyses, also called tibial spurs or hooks. The two species listed don’t have tibial apophyses, but others in those genera do.
Augacephalus (not yet listed in Platnick), Chilobrachys, Citharischius, Coremiocnemis, Heteroscodra, Hysterocrates, Metriopelma, Nhandu carapoensis, Orphnaecus, Phlogiellus, Phormingochilus, Phoneyusa, Poecilotheria, Selenocosmia, Sericopelma, Stromatopelma,
Theraphosa blondi.

I noticed that Poecilotheria is on there, but not Psalmopeous.  Now what that has to do with venom is anyones guess, but I'm still struggling with how closely related they are.  I don't see many visually apparent similiarities between the two, what are some of the more (or less) obvious ones that make them so closely related?

Bill


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## Bjorgly (Nov 8, 2002)

Are usumbraras (or however its spelt) considered a "pokie"?  What is their bite like?  I want one and i know their agressive and the chance is high i might get bit if at all careless.  Anyone bitten by one?

Mark


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## Haploman (Nov 8, 2002)

*why dont you ...*

check out the bites and stings report  its in this website


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## Haploman (Nov 8, 2002)

*Phillip*

people who know me I have a high tolerance to pain, in my life I had many many broken bones, in the bite and stings report  I posted there when I was bitten by P ornata check it out  the worse thing that happened to me with that was getting over the nausea and the vomiting, and what I stated in that thread there was exact


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## belewfripp (Nov 8, 2002)

Lots of interesting things about this one.  First is, he covered the jar with his hand.  I have read before with regard to centipedes, and believe it to be true with Ts as well, that blocking their path of exit with a part of your body is asking for trouble.  A T that wants to run and hits a roadblock will probably "feel" trapped -- in my experience, it is when they are up against a wall or feel cornered that they are likely to bite.  If the body is used a a flat surface the T feels less trapped, and is more likely to remain in what I call flee mode.  When the T has free running room, whether on the carpet, wall, other tanks or your body, they are more likely to keep fleeing and not start biting.  This is conjecture based on my experience, not hard fact.  I don't recommend free-handedly retrieving Old World or nasty New World Ts but sometimes a T won't give you a choice and decides to use your body as 4-lane highway.


The other interesting thing about this for me regards the symptoms.  In my opinion, we don't have anywhere near the data we need to be able to establish a common denominator among bite victims and make any kind of real conclusions.  The most I would offer regarding Poecilotheria is that a bite wherein venom is injected will likely be very unpleasant.  What variables exactly determine just how unpleaant it will be seem to include venom quantity, bite location, victim's age, weight, etc.  But we are far from knowing just how many variables there are, and how exactly they all play into this.  This, ironically, seems to me to be due to the fact that people just don't get bit that often.  This, for me, is the number one fact in favor of not legislating tarantula ownership:  they don't seem to really want to bite.  There are exceptions of course, Mike "troll" apparently has had some nasty run-ins with a mature male S. calceatum, but over all, biting seems like a last resort, even for Old Worlders.  Threat posture, to me, does not indicate a desire to bite; it indicates that it will if it has to.  The definition of 'has to' varies with species, etc., but for more docile Ts, the odds of being bitten are tiny, and for the responsible keepers keeping the more feisty kinds, it still seems low.  Unfortunately, none of this is quantified and I could be wrong, but I think I'm at least partially correct.


The irony of course is that if more people got bitten, we might have the data we need to really evaluate the consequences of tarantula bites.  In order to be more careful and forearmed with knowledge to deal with potential bites, we must expose ourselves to more danger and get bitten more!  I wish many of these Ts were native to the U.S. so that a long history of bites could be found through a historical record without necessarily having had a frequent number of bites relative to the people who could have been bitten, but unfortunately this isn't so.


Adrian


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## Phillip (Nov 8, 2002)

*I've seen the bite report...*

Like I said before I wasn't trying to make light of the bite nor was I saying it felt good. All I was pointing out is that many folks tend to over react when they get a boo boo if you will. On the broken bone/injury count I don't doubt that you've had a few but trust me I've probably had more from my younger and dumber days. 
So far the count for whomever is interested would be as follows.
Left arm .. 13 breaks and a dozen or so dislocations
Right arm.. 7 breaks
Right knee.. broken twice and busted into 13 pieces once
Two broken collar bones 
Several ribs   once had two of them puncture a lung
Pancreas torn in half and splein gone ( wicked car wreck on that one )
And far too many other little nicks and bruises to mention.

My point is this. Does a poke bite feel pleasurable? Nope. Is it as bad as it is usually made out to be? Depends on your perspective of bad. Now this of course is not taking into account hyper sensitive people whom the venom really puts a hurtin on but most people aren't going to fall into that category.
Bottom line is you should probably avoid a bite whenever possible as no one wants to play guinea pig but I doubt it's going to send you for a ride on the meat wagon. I just can't see being overly worried about the effects of something to the point of giving the species an undeserved bad rep that's all.
Phil


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## Kenny (Nov 8, 2002)

*Hi all*

Hi.

Well, I am getting a P.Regalis soon and I will treat the Regalis as any animal with venom  it has and with the very respect for it . 
Meaning; I don't want to get a bite from it. 
As all of my other T's. They are animals with venom and even as I don't have any allergic ( I got bitten by 10+ wasps once at the same time and I just got a "numb" shoulder) problems,BUT,  I still don't want to find out the bad way by getting a bite from anyone of my "babies" 
I also agree with Phil that to give a particular T a bad rumour is bad because there are to many reactions to take in account like allergic reactions/sensibility, how old you are, and so on.

In my T room they are display animals with my 100% respect for the venom they have,,, whatever effect it may have.


Kenny


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## Code Monkey (Nov 8, 2002)

Does a rattlesnake have a bad rep with herp keepers because it can kill or cause the loss of a limb? Or does it get cautious and well applied respect from those who chose to keep it, and cautious and well deserved avoidance from those who chose not to assume the risks?

No one outside of the T community is going to know a pokie from a rosie, the only people who are going to be affected by said rep are us. No, we don't have proof that Poecilotheria, Hysterocrates, Heteroscodra, and Selenocosmia have genuinely worse venom than B. smithi, but we do have a preponderance of evidence that they have worse venom.

Everyone should keep an open mind to the possibilities in both directions. At the same time, given what evidence is there, I think the fact that some here seem more concerned about the reputation of the spider than the welfare of newbies who might not be prepared seems somewhat irresponsible. Informed consent should be the mission statement - we can caution people that some bite reports might be exaggerated or inaccurate because of psychological perceptions of the event, but we shouldn't actively try to downplay real people's real reactions after a bite since no one knows exactly what caused what. Until someone does the clinical studies, or someone is personally bit so they know exactly how they'll react, I'd think people would be fools to not to treat a pokie as inherently more harmful than a B. smithi.


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## Kenny (Nov 8, 2002)

*Respect*

Hi all.

Any animal with venom should be treated with a lot of respect; no matter what, if it's a bee keeper or a t keeper or a snake keeper, or a scorpion keeper: With respect.

Kenny


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## Code Monkey (Nov 8, 2002)

*Re: Respect*



> _Originally posted by Kenny _
> *if it's a bee keeper *


Heh, don't know any beekeepers do you? I doubt my father has any clue how many times he's been stung over the years (I'm sure it's in the hundreds), and it's not from not treating them with respect, either, just goes with the territory.

Yes, any animal that can cause pain or harm should have your respect. Still don't see that equivalent with caution. As an analogy, I always treat all guns as though they are loaded, follow basic gun safety rules, etc. But, lets say you offer me a chance to fire an old 19th century antique you have, an antique that might have metallurgical faults that gives it a greater chance of misfiring and blowing up in my face. Now, this is an inherent risk of any firearm, but here I know the risk is probably greater. Hmm... do I really want to fire this gun, is treating it with the same respect I give my hunting rifle going to make a difference? I don't think so. All the normal respect in the world to keep from getting bit doesn't change the likely increased risk of harm if you do get bit. You need to make an informed decision based on *that* risk, not just assume it won't happen because you're always skilled and respectful with your Ts.


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## Kenny (Nov 9, 2002)

*Well..*

Hi.

My point is that if you have any doubt with the animal in front of you with A venom ( read: allergic, whatever sensitive) bee, T, snake, be careful. 
I have been stung by wasps and it was not nice although I didn't get a bad reaction from it and I'm not going to find it out the hard way with T's or scorpions for example since I have never been bit by a T or scorp,  .

Gun 'a" as gun 'b' can harm you.
I treat all guns with respect, just that I don't want to feel the effect from the bullet from any gun.

Kenny.


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## smithikeeper (Nov 9, 2002)

This has a couple bite reports of various Ts including P. Regalis.   http://www.angelfire.com/my/vogelspinnen/bitereports.html


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## Phillip (Nov 9, 2002)

*Hate to call ya out Monkey but...*

Look I really don't want to start any crap and certainly don't have the wish to enter a long winded debate over this Monkey but I have to point out that of course you are biased towards pokes being hot. That would be reflected in the fact that you have waited until now to get your 1st African due to being intimidated by the old world species. Is this a knock on you personally? Not at all. You just have to step back and look at the big picture here. The bite mentioned here resulted in what some nausea and vomiting. That's nothing that a good night of drinking won't give you. The fact is that you are correct in that there is no proof of them being harmful but you have as much as admitted to being intimidated by pokes in threads past so of course you are going to lean towards the pokes being bad news side of the debate.
I on the other hand have kept pokes for years now with no incidents so far as 1st they simply aren't aggressive they prefer to run. And 2nd even when they do bite you as uncomfortable as it may make you you are not going to die. No one has died from one yet and yes several have been bitten. If this were one of the topics you are well versed on I wouldn't argue the point but having no experience with them of your own you are merely going by what you have heard and not what you know.
Again I'm not going to debate this with you as I was never a fan of the debate club in the 1st place as you seem to have been. And again I am not jumping on you just pointing out that you are making this out to be a bigger danger than it is. The very fact that the one person to have posted a bite report here is alive and well admitting that the nausea was the worst part should illustrate that.
Phil


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## Kenny (Nov 9, 2002)

*of course not*

,,,

any tarantula is just fine,,that's my point.

Tarantulas have been badly in the aim for bad romuors about venom and so on.

Just respect them for what they are and you can have any speices of them I think.

Kenny


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## Code Monkey (Nov 9, 2002)

*Re: Hate to call ya out Monkey but...*



> _Originally posted by Phillip _
> *Look I really don't want to start any crap and certainly don't have the wish to enter a long winded debate over this Monkey*


No debate, just a clarification: I don't like pokes period. I don't find their markings particularly interesting, and I don't like their body plan. Aggressiveness and potential hotness has about as much to do with why I don't care for pokes as for why I don't care for T. blondi. If I ever got one, it would be purely out of curiosity to see if they grew on me like some other Ts I got on a whim have.

Now you are correct in saying that I, as a rule, have never been a big fan of aggressives, but that's everything to do with the personality and nothing to do with fear of being bit or venom. I've never doubted my ability to avoid said bites, just my desire to want to actually need to be wiley and cautious after two decades of caring for eight-legged paperweights. I changed my mind after getting my first threat display from a semi-aggressive and thought, "Oh, is that all?". It was more funny than intimidating. A month or so later, I decided to get that H. maculata I've been drooling over since I first saw photos of an adult. Trust me, if fear of venom were an issue, there wouldn't be a 7" subspinipes less than 3 feet from my head as I type this 

I'm also not sure why the 'not going to die' has been brought up twice by you, because it was certainly never brought up by me or anyone else in the thread that I noticed, nor in the bite report that started this as best I remember. All I have tried to point out is that I find your, ahem, healthy skepticism a little disconcerting when you compare the bite reports of old worlders in general next to new worlders in general. Whether it's right or wrong, the *appearance* is that I could expect something less painful than a wasp sting from my B. emilia if she bit me, but if my maculata bit me I would experience a fair amount of pain and nausea at the very least. Not life threatening, not even a certainty, but certainly food for thought for the would be T owner.


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## chaset (Nov 9, 2002)

*Australian Hobby and Venoums T's*

More so then the Pokies we keep in North America,  Austrialian T's are reported to be hotter, and some people down there even keep Atrax Robustus in there collections,


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## Wade (Nov 9, 2002)

The problem is that people who are new to the hobby are usually looking for simple answers. When doing educational programs with my spiders, a surprising number of people will point at a P. regalis and say "that one's deadly, isn't it?", At which point I go into the spiel "well, there have been no reports of anyone actually dying from a bite, but some people have reported severe reactions and many belive that this species MAY have more potent venom than most. On the other hand, they're not especialy aggressive and would usually rather run away..." You can practically see their eyes glazing over. What they want to hear is either "it's deadly" or "it's harmless". Of course, we all know that there's a wide range of possibilities between "deadly" and "harmless" but many don't want to hear it. Vague, non-commital answers just aren't satisfying, so the listener tends to take away what they want to in the first place. Still, though, a "word of caution" is always a good idea, as it is the only way to cover your own butt when handing out advice.

Wade


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## Raveness (Nov 9, 2002)

The cramps are probably from gas.


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## ithuriel (Nov 9, 2002)

hi , been reading some of the posts here and from what i see certain peeps just dont want to believe that  so called hot Ts can really hurt you. im not going to go through whats already been said about the effects of venom on dif peeps and whatever but i will say that if you get bit through being careless and  deluding yourself into thinking its not dangerous then more the fool you. think if one of my Ts bolted by the way i think id bolt too  certainly wouldnt play capt. courageous n try to handle it


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## Exodus (Nov 9, 2002)

That story is scary...


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## belewfripp (Nov 9, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Code Monkey _
> *Everyone should keep an open mind to the possibilities in both directions. At the same time, given what evidence is there, I think the fact that some here seem more concerned about the reputation of the spider than the welfare of newbies who might not be prepared seems somewhat irresponsible. Informed consent should be the mission statement - we can caution people that some bite reports might be exaggerated or inaccurate because of psychological perceptions of the event, but we shouldn't actively try to downplay real people's real reactions after a bite since no one knows exactly what caused what.  *


Agreed.  The message I try to send to people who ask me about my Ts, are they dangerous, etc., is that caution and respect are called for, but not fear.  Explaining to people why they need to be respectful can often include information that might make people fearful;  it is tough to get the point across just so, but that is the message I try to send to people.


As for newbies, I think people new to keeping Ts shouldn't mess with the nastier species until they deal with a sort of downgraded version, so to speak.  Personally, I found that dealing with Avicularia escapees, while not as bitey and not as fast, helped me prepare for speedier Ts better than a rosehair would.  Likewise, maybe get a B. vagans or A. moderatum, both of which can be defensive and bitey at times, before going for something like a gigas or crawshayi.  This is, of course, not taking into account the habitat styles of the species mentioned.  I don't recommend this as a hard and fast rule, though;  some people are very quick learners and can get started into feistier/faster spiders more quickly.


Bottom line for me is, unless the bite is dry or just has no reaction, something you won't know until after the fact, any unpleasantness is more than I would like to have.  Is it worth raising a huge hullabulloo over?  Probably not, but it is information worth having, I think.


Adrian


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## belewfripp (Nov 9, 2002)

*Re: I've seen the bite report...*



> _Originally posted by Phillip _
> *Like I said before I wasn't trying to make light of the bite nor was I saying it felt good. All I was pointing out is that many folks tend to over react when they get a boo boo if you will.  *



I also wanted to add this;  I don't agree totally with Phillip, but I'm kind of middle of the road.  A lot of people do exaggerate misfortune;  I see it every day when someone complains about a pizza or their service.  I am not one of those people, and probably, had I suffered the symptoms from the bite report, would not have seen a doctor unless I had heart irregularities, chest pain or difficulty breathing.  Excessive vomiting would probably enter that, as well.  Other than that, I tend to grin and bear it.  I tend to feel like if it didn't threaten my life, it isn't worth worrying about.  Something to be avoided yes, and a lesson learned, but nothing to get panicky about.


This is a difficult thread for me because I fall in the middle and am trying to toe that line, and am finding difficulty doing so, in terms of proper phrasing.  Ah well.

Adrian


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