# my leopard gecko doesnt look good....



## K-TRAIN (Aug 9, 2007)

well, a few months back my male leopard gecko from petco died. im assuming it died from some sort of illness because it refused to eat and wasnt very active. i had two, one male, one female and the female was very healthy. when the male looked like it was sick i seperated the two geckos and cleaned the cage with salt when he died. then i put the female back in the tank and used a heat mat instead of a heat lamp. i was told they need that kind of heat more. now my female has changed drastically. its tail  became very thin, (it really doesnt have much of a tail though, it fell off before i bought it), its turned a pale color (like its shedding but its been like that for about a week), and shes real sluggish. i tried to move her out of her shed box today to make sure she was ok and she barely moved. i think that its dehydrated, but im not sure. right now its main supplies are the heat mat, a ten gallon tank, a delicup with a hole in it(shed box), and a zoomed water container. (the ones that hold a large amount of water and puts out alittle at a time.), and its hide. the substrate is a reptile carpet. is my leopard gecko sick? or is it normal when there shedding? and if it sounds like its dehidrated, how can i get her hydrated again? i really dont want to see this leopard gecko die.


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## M.F.Bagaturov (Aug 9, 2007)

Hi!
Are You keep em humid or only the water dish?

It is also looking like the bad thing is the parasitic illness - "micosporidiosis", at least as we knew it here in Russia. You should in any case get the lefovers and bring them to vets for analysis and confirmation.


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## Schlyne (Aug 9, 2007)

It sounds like whatever your male leo had was contagious.   I don't think she's dehydrated.


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## AneesasMuse (Aug 9, 2007)

If her tail is thin, she needs a flagyll run or some panacur (it may be the same, I don't recall)... she has parasites. I'm almost certain of this because I just had the same scenario and my gut reaction was dehydration, but it turned out to be parasites. Apparently, thin tail = parasites.   

Take her to the vet as soon as you can. Good Luck!


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## Mushroom Spore (Aug 9, 2007)

This is why animals must, must, MUST be quarantined from one another for a good few months after purchase.  The female could have been saved, at least.



AneesasMuse said:


> Apparently, thin tail = parasites.


Makes sense. The parasites are taking all the nutrients from food/the body (I think, may depend on the parasite) so the gecko is forced to rely on its fat stores which are in the tail.


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## JLDomestics (Aug 9, 2007)

What are you feeding it? Are you dusting with calcium and vitamin d3? Is the water clean and fresh?


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## K-TRAIN (Aug 9, 2007)

M.F.Bagaturov said:


> Hi!
> Are You keep em humid or only the water dish?
> 
> It is also looking like the bad thing is the parasitic illness - "micosporidiosis", at least as we knew it here in Russia. You should in any case get the lefovers and bring them to vets for analysis and confirmation.


well, i just had a water dish, but when she started to shed i would spray her with water, like i do when my ball python doesnt shed completly. so i do keep the cage humid. i dont know the percentage though because the hydrometer in the cage seems to be busted. (i just realized it yesterday)




Schlyne said:


> It sounds like whatever your male leo had was contagious.   I don't think she's dehydrated.


do you think it would effect other geckos? because i have golden geckos in another tank across from the leo's tank. 



AneesasMuse said:


> If her tail is thin, she needs a flagyll run or some panacur (it may be the same, I don't recall)... she has parasites. I'm almost certain of this because I just had the same scenario and my gut reaction was dehydration, but it turned out to be parasites. Apparently, thin tail = parasites.
> 
> Take her to the vet as soon as you can. Good Luck!


thanks. im hoping that if its parasites it wont effect my other herps.



Mushroom Spore said:


> This is why animals must, must, MUST be quarantined from one another for a good few months after purchase.  The female could have been saved, at least.
> 
> 
> 
> Makes sense. The parasites are taking all the nutrients from food/the body (I think, may depend on the parasite) so the gecko is forced to rely on its fat stores which are in the tail.


i know that they should be quarantined. but i only had them separated for about two months. i guess i should of kept them separated longer. how long should they be separated? up to 6 months? 



JLDomestics said:


> What are you feeding it? Are you dusting with calcium and vitamin d3? Is the water clean and fresh?


all my insect eating herps eat crickets and the occasional meal worm. my leo would eat two-three times a week (depending on how many crickets i had left). the crickets were dusted every other feeding, and the mealworms were  always dusted. the water, like i said, was from a "water well" that lasted a few weeks. that was because i was on vacation and my father fed and cared  
for my animals. when i returned the water seemed clean, but i gave fresh water. (i only used the water wells to make sure it had enough water.)


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## Mushroom Spore (Aug 9, 2007)

K-TRAIN said:


> i know that they should be quarantined. but i only had them separated for about two months. i guess i should of kept them separated longer. how long should they be separated? up to 6 months?


Yeah, six months is what I almost always hear as a safe minimum.


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## K-TRAIN (Aug 9, 2007)

Mushroom Spore said:


> Yeah, six months is what I almost always hear as a safe minimum.


alright. unfortunatly i just checked on her minutes ago and she was on her back. 
i flipped her back over to see if she was dead but shes still moving.


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## K-TRAIN (Aug 9, 2007)

heres some pics of the leos, if that helps id whats wrong.
this is my female, "rukia" when i first got her





her now: 











this is the male that died.


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## JLDomestics (Aug 9, 2007)

Id say they look awfully skinny and starvation might be a cause. Other than that I don't have a clue and I'll say what everyone else says when they don't have a clue - parasites.


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## Mushroom Spore (Aug 9, 2007)

Holy censored, I have NEVER seen leos that skinny.  

If she's still moving, between now and going to the vet you need to go and get some waxworms IMMEDIATELY. You know the rule about "don't overfeed waxworms because they're pure fat"? Well, now is the time to ignore that rule. Squish them up to get them all gross and messy if it needs a little help getting her attention, and give her ALL SHE WILL EAT. If she'll eat. 

Vet vet vet vet vet vet vet. 

(Also, I just noticed the "water well" thing. Even if it lasted several weeks, the water was almost certainly stale, gross, and packed with bacteria by the end of that time.  Which certainly would not have helped. Even worse if your critters ever got fecal matter in there, which reptiles often do.)


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## AneesasMuse (Aug 9, 2007)

That is obscenely skinny!! It could be a number of things... go to the VET!!! 

Feed her, fatten her up, have her treated for parasites, keep her water clean, and DO NOT mist her directly anymore... ever! Provide a humid hide for her to crawl into when she wants and needs to, for shedding. A tupperware bowl with a lid and a quarter sized hole cut in the side, with moist peat moss inside... this is sufficient humidity for her to have a proper shed. Wetting her directly cannot be a good thing. 

I hope she hangs on until you get her to the vet. That is really a sad sight to see. I'm so sorry for the gecko.


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## M.F.Bagaturov (Aug 10, 2007)

Hello!
You most possibly have Your leopard gecko infesting by micosporidia. 
As it told than earlier You go to vet than more chances to cure it, if possible 
But first of all You should remove any additional humidity except the water dish and hand-feed the lizard under compulsion.
The treatment has consists, at least as it is aplicable in Russia by introducing the Paromomicin (Gabbroral) - in* 400 mg/kg peroraly once a day during the  10 days period.
Good luck!


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## K-TRAIN (Aug 10, 2007)

Mushroom Spore said:


> Holy censored, I have NEVER seen leos that skinny.
> 
> If she's still moving, between now and going to the vet you need to go and get some waxworms IMMEDIATELY. You know the rule about "don't overfeed waxworms because they're pure fat"? Well, now is the time to ignore that rule. Squish them up to get them all gross and messy if it needs a little help getting her attention, and give her ALL SHE WILL EAT. If she'll eat.
> 
> ...





AneesasMuse said:


> That is obscenely skinny!! It could be a number of things... go to the VET!!!
> 
> Feed her, fatten her up, have her treated for parasites, keep her water clean, and DO NOT mist her directly anymore... ever! Provide a humid hide for her to crawl into when she wants and needs to, for shedding. A tupperware bowl with a lid and a quarter sized hole cut in the side, with moist peat moss inside... this is sufficient humidity for her to have a proper shed. Wetting her directly cannot be a good thing.
> 
> I hope she hangs on until you get her to the vet. That is really a sad sight to see. I'm so sorry for the gecko.





M.F.Bagaturov said:


> Hello!
> You most possibly have Your leopard gecko infesting by micosporidia.
> As it told than earlier You go to vet than more chances to cure it, if possible
> But first of all You should remove any additional humidity except the water dish and hand-feed the lizard under compulsion.
> ...




wouldnt the leo have a better chance of death if it was taken to a vet? i mean, i will take it to a vet, but i was told before that my other leo, when he was on his way out, shouldnt be taken to a vet because it might not be able to get a accurate dose of whatever vets use on them. the person that told me that claimed that happened to one of her leos.


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## AneesasMuse (Aug 10, 2007)

Would you rather take it to the Vet and try or not take it and just watch it suffer and die a miserable death?

Not all Vets are good ones... on the same token, not all are bad ones. If you have a reputable Exotics Vet, go to him/her. If not, find one ASAP... preferably NOT your friend's same Vet, since they seemingly didn't have the proper knowledge and experience with a simple parasite issue. 

Good Luck! 

It seems like Rukia has a chance to recover, but you need to act now and do what is best for her.


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## Mushroom Spore (Aug 10, 2007)

K-TRAIN said:


> wouldnt the leo have a better chance of death if it was taken to a vet? i mean, i will take it to a vet, but i was told before that my other leo, when he was on his way out, shouldnt be taken to a vet because it might not be able to get a accurate dose of whatever vets use on them. the person that told me that claimed that happened to one of her leos.


That's absolutely ridiculous and your friend should be ashamed for saying such things after one single dosage miscalculation accident (does she have any actual proof that's what killed it, and not the health problem it went in for?). The lizard is going to 100% die without medical treatment. Anything is better than that.

EDIT: I can't get over this. If she used BS scare tactics to prevent you seeking actual medical care for your animal, she is morally responsible for its death. That is disgusting. That's like convincing (intimidating, frightening) someone they shouldn't have heart surgery for a fatal condition because you know a guy who died on the operating table!


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## K-TRAIN (Aug 10, 2007)

AneesasMuse said:


> Would you rather take it to the Vet and try or not take it and just watch it suffer and die a miserable death?
> 
> Not all Vets are good ones... on the same token, not all are bad ones. If you have a reputable Exotics Vet, go to him/her. If not, find one ASAP... preferably NOT your friend's same Vet, since they seemingly didn't have the proper knowledge and experience with a simple parasite issue.
> 
> ...


i know, i just wanted a opinion on that because it makes sense, because of its weight, size, etc. i hope my vet is experienced. i had two, one for my dog, (but they do take exotics) and one i used when i was raising reptiles before. (i accually started again last year.)



Mushroom Spore said:


> That's absolutely ridiculous and your friend should be ashamed for saying such things after one single dosage miscalculation accident (does she have any actual proof that's what killed it, and not the health problem it went in for?). The lizard is going to 100% die without medical treatment. Anything is better than that.
> 
> EDIT: I can't get over this. If she used BS scare tactics to prevent you seeking actual medical care for your animal, she is morally responsible for its death. That is disgusting. That's like convincing (intimidating, frightening) someone they shouldn't have heart surgery for a fatal condition because you know a guy who died on the operating table!


i know. but it makes sense if you think about it scientifically. i mean, it is possible to have a higher risk of death in certain animals because of its size, etc.


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## GailC (Aug 10, 2007)

A good reptile vet will be able to give the proper dose of medicine. If you don't get her in SOON, she will die. There is alot of reasons a leo will starve themselves. Just pray it isn't crypto

http://drgecko.com/


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## K-TRAIN (Aug 10, 2007)

thanks for the advice. hopefully i can help her.


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## M.F.Bagaturov (Aug 11, 2007)

I have gave You the proper dose for Your animal above as we safely use it here, but at any way You should go and get the faeces analysis beforу You do anything. 
And if You have the micosporidia do not provide humidity even in the hiding place, only water dish! Any additional humidity helps micosporidia to spearing the lizard more and more.


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## K-TRAIN (Aug 12, 2007)

M.F.Bagaturov said:


> I have gave You the proper dose for Your animal above as we safely use it here, but at any way You should go and get the faeces analysis beforу You do anything.
> And if You have the micosporidia do not provide humidity even in the hiding place, only water dish! Any additional humidity helps micosporidia to spearing the lizard more and more.


thanks for the advice, but i was recently told that even with a treatment, its not likely that it'll survive. im not sure what to do now, im at a standstill of wether its worth the money to try to save it. to me it looks like its on its last legs, just like my other one a few hours before it died. dont think im cruel or  i dont care about the health of my animals, i have to think of it in an economic way as well. if it is alive on monday i will try to save it. but i really dont think it will be. she hasnt eaten, and she sits in her waterbowl just like my other one did.


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## K-TRAIN (Aug 12, 2007)

i just euthanized her. she wont be suffering soon. if she isnt gone already.


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## Hedorah99 (Aug 12, 2007)

Mushroom Spore said:


> Yeah, six months is what I almost always hear as a safe minimum.


Average quarantine in major zoos is 30 days. Of course we have access to medical testing as well.


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## K-TRAIN (Aug 12, 2007)

Hedorah99 said:


> Average quarantine in major zoos is 30 days. Of course we have access to medical testing as well.



but isnt that kind of different? i mean, most major zoos are funded. so they can get better quality animals.


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## M.F.Bagaturov (Aug 13, 2007)

K-TRAIN
This is Your animal according the human laws and You can do it anything You like. And this is a living creature according the nature laws along at Your own conscience...
THat's all I can say to You now...
Sorry for that little leo


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## Hedorah99 (Aug 13, 2007)

K-TRAIN said:


> but isnt that kind of different? i mean, most major zoos are funded. so they can get better quality animals.


Not necessarily. We have received animals from other zoos that were loaded with internal parasites and we do occasionally take in the unwanted pet (only if its something needed for the collection). Quarantining is a safe practice no matter where the animal comes from. He have skipped a full quarantine if they do a battery of medical tests before the animal comes on grounds. But in my experience, 30 days is generally enough.


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## K-TRAIN (Aug 13, 2007)

Hedorah99 said:


> Not necessarily. We have received animals from other zoos that were loaded with internal parasites and we do occasionally take in the unwanted pet (only if its something needed for the collection). Quarantining is a safe practice no matter where the animal comes from. He have skipped a full quarantine if they do a battery of medical tests before the animal comes on grounds. But in my experience, 30 days is generally enough.


oh. ok. i always thought zoos bought the best animals around. so they were healthier then most others.


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