# Bull or Gopher Snake?



## pimpin_posey (May 1, 2006)

Hola i recently caught this big guy outside a few days ago. he's bout 6' long. im pretty sure its a Bull Snake but i jus wanted to konw for sure. and does anyone know how big they can get and any extra info i might need to know about this species.


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## rattler_mt (May 1, 2006)

not sure, the pattern doesnt quite look like our bulls but bullsnakes have such a huge range i wouldnt nessisarily count it out(from Texas into Canada). the ones around here will get to almost 8 feet. my personal record is a few inches over 6. i like messing with adults but the young ones generally have a large chip on their shoulder and i usually ge bit or musked by almost all of them under 2.5 feet. the ones over 4 feet generally have a alot better temprament if they havent been harrassed before i got to them. not much around here will mess with a 6 foot bull, they sound to damn mean when cornered so they are a bit more easy going.


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## insect714 (May 4, 2006)

I am aiming at Gopher Snake, About the same size as my old snake and almost the exact same pattern.

Insect


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## ErikH (May 4, 2006)

Looks like a Gopher snake to me, too.


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## pitbulllady (May 4, 2006)

That's a Gopher Snake-too many saddles to be a Bull, but he is an exceptionally pretty specimen.  The head and neck markings are quite different from my two big Texas Bulls.

pitbullady


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## pimpin_posey (May 4, 2006)

so confirmed Gopher Snake? and if so wut size can i expect from her. and how big should i have her enclosure. would a 55 g. wide be too big? or could i go any smaller comfortably to conserve space?


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## Brandon (May 4, 2006)

All of this is nonsense, Bull snakes and Goapher snakes are pretty much the same thing, they all belong to the genus Pituophis and is likly a subspecies under catenifer, so you have

Pituophis catenifer _______?

Good luck you should be able to use the vast internet resources to find out what you have.
Almost all species of Pituophis can reach 6 feet + they are voracious eaters, you will need a decent sized cage, as it already looks like a pretty large specimin, If you feel that it will be to much for you let it go, understand that taking a snake out of the wild can equal over a decade of work and keeping. 

-Brandon-


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## pitbulllady (May 4, 2006)

Brandon said:
			
		

> All of this is nonsense, Bull snakes and Goapher snakes are pretty much the same thing, they all belong to the genus Pituophis and is likly a subspecies under catenifer, so you have
> 
> Pituophis catenifer _______?
> 
> ...



Yes, Bulls, Pines and Gophers are in the same GENUS, but NOT the same SPECIES.  A Persian cat and a bobcat are both in the genus _Felis_, but I don't think anyone will try to claim that they are of the same species!  Gopher snakes' current taxonomic status is _Pituophis catenifer ssp._, while Bullsnakes' current taxonomic status is _Pituophis sayii ssp_, and Pines are  _Pituophis melanoleucas ssp._.  From someone who has kept and bred Pituophis, namely Texas Bullsnakes and both Northern and Southern(or Florida)Pines for several years, as well as San Diego and Sonoran Gophers, there ARE noticeable differences in the patterns of Gophers and Bulls.
Based on snakes that I have personally seen, there also tend to be temperamental differences, with the Bulls I've had tending to be more defensive and "aggressive" than Gophers.  I've only had one Gopher that would even hiss, and that was a small Baja Gopher.  There are also temperament differences between Northern and Southern Pines.

pitbulllady


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## Brandon (May 5, 2006)

Iv encountered many many P. catenifer that have been agressive in the field, I was just giving you what I know. I agree that it is a goapher, It would be much eaiser to ID with a local! I could be wronge hence I said "is likly a subspecies under catenifer"

-Brandon-


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## Ryan C. (May 5, 2006)

Hes in Southern California, Near 29 palms I believe


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## pimpin_posey (May 5, 2006)

in 29 Palms actually. and iono but i like to take her out and let her roam round my yard on the warm days and she pretty much doesnt leave the yard. i came out today to find her scarfing down some baby birds that had fallen outta a nest in my front yard. she ate four of them by my count lol she hungry i guess. well thanx for all the comments. im off toe play Kingdom Hearts II woot


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## OldHag (May 5, 2006)

Ive always though a bullsnake, gophersnake, blow snake were all the same thing... infact so do a lot of websites... Now Im confused 
http://www.manbir-online.com/htm2/snake.9.htm
http://www.enchantedlearning.com/subjects/reptiles/snakes/Bullsnake.shtml

Guess Im gunna have to re-do my thinking!!! Glad to find out theyre not the same snake!!
Pine Snake  (Pituophis Melanoleucus)

Bull Snake  (Pituophis Sayi)

Gopher Snake  (Pituophis Catenifer)


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## Brandon (May 5, 2006)

OldHag,
  Now you see the problem with common names. I'v lived here in az my whole life and have heard allot of people call the gopher snakes out here bull snakes. 

-Brandon-


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## Beardo (May 5, 2006)

That is definitely a Gopher Snake. The head is too elongated and the nose too pointed to be a Bull Snake. Bulls have that blunt rostral scale to aid them in their fossorial lifestyle, while Gophers do not. It is theorized that Bulls & Gophers interbreed where their ranges overlap in the southwest. The Sonoran Gophers & Great Basin Gophers bear a big similarity to the Bullsnakes of that area, but they are different species (depending on who you talk to).


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