# need help horned lizard not eating



## worm (Sep 20, 2007)

Hey just found this, that i can post for non spiders. And sorry i didnt realize this forum was here so i might of posted in another forum as well. This one moves faster.  I have 2 horned lizards inwich im not verry good with yet...we just got them about a month ago. Anyway one seems verry skiddish and dosent eat like the other one. they are sapose to be desert horny toads. 

ive tryied to seperate the more dominate one away from our little red one thats scared. But still cant tell that he's eating any more. he just looks bad. like skinny compared to the other one.

any help would be great.


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## Ted (Sep 20, 2007)

worm said:


> Hey just found this, that i can post for non spiders. And sorry i didnt realize this forum was here so i might of posted in another forum as well. This one moves faster.  I have 2 horned lizards inwich im not verry good with yet...we just got them about a month ago. Anyway one seems verry skiddish and dosent eat like the other one. they are sapose to be desert horny toads.
> 
> ive tryied to seperate the more dominate one away from our little red one thats scared. But still cant tell that he's eating any more. he just looks bad. like skinny compared to the other one.
> 
> any help would be great.


if they are horned lizards they are endangered and cant be kept as pets in most places.
they will die in captivity because they only eat harvester ants which cant be bought anywhere.


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## Farom (Sep 20, 2007)

Pretty much.  Gotta have an ant culture if ya wanna keep em long term.


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## worm (Sep 20, 2007)

yeah ok sorry in maryland these are captive bread and we can buy them at any local pet store....i do understand in some places they are illegal like texas and such but, agin i just went to the local pet store and they were there.  I belive this species was being fed crickets before i got them, the other HL i have does eat the cricket's so i cant be a solid beliver of the ant thing.  

I just am aginst ants cuz of my Tarantulas i dont want ants any where nere my spiders, so i even have been rasing baby crickets to simulate ants but agin this one i cant tell if he's eating......he just looks unhelthy.

hers some pics but not current.


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## beetleman (Sep 20, 2007)

unfortunitly horned lizards can't really live that long on crickets,they need ants,the ants supply nutrients to the horned lizards,(which is basicly all they eat in the wild)that crickets cannot do,i would check online to see about getting the harvester ants if ya can. good luck.


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## Snakefox (Sep 21, 2007)

here are my toughts I am no where near and expert but this is my experence so far with horn toads.
you can get the ants you need at 
LLL reptile suply , that where I get my ants they are allways lively and fresh, 
http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog/feeders/harvester-ants/
some people may be able to tell you how to rasie an ant colony I haven't had any luck in that department.

my horn toads eats a combo of ants , crixs, wax worms, new born baby pinki mice and roaches. 

some sugestions for feeding
If one is not eatting sperate it from the other one and see if that helps. Many horn toads will bully others into not eating. They are a little like tiny bearded dragons in that aspect. Mine live in a colony in a "40 gal aqurium" but i seprate them all to feed them. Also try a wax worm I have never had one refuse a wax worm.

Some horn toads don't eat ants at all not all species need them desert horn toads normaly don't eat them. Unlike thier Texas cousins. However I feed them to my deserts horn toads anyway. They enjoy a varried diet.

 Ants are easy to keep once you get the hang of it. But never leave ants in there cage. When they start feeding better try not to leave any prey running around in there with them. It only stresses them out and start fights. When I feed ants I mesure out the amounts I need about 30 ants for each horned toad every other day. Then I put them in a small container for 2 min in the frig not the freezer just to slow them down a bit. THe cool ants will be easy for the horn toads to catch. The harvester ants are veggie eatters so you don't have to worry about your T's but I would keep the ants in a seal contanier away from your pets. IE broom closet.
" I also feed other feeders at the same time 30 ants every other day is about all they need to help with digestion but they are a must"

Make sure the temptature is right they will only feed when they are hot. 

Also some don't eat becuase they are dehydrated soaking them in warm water is wonderful for all pet herps. 
When they start eating put them back together they seem to enjoy each other company from what I have observed with mine, but they will battle if they have to compete for food.

 I live in texas so I had to get a lisence to keep and breed them.  If you every need any help let me know. Also if you ever want to get rid of them let me know. 
hope that helps
Snakefox


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## Jmugleston (Sep 24, 2007)

*Quick reply*

I had a longer reply but I was too tired to fix the grammatical errors so here is a condensed version:
The previous post covers most everything.
As for setting up successful colonies: You need a queen. If Pogonomyrmex aren't in your area you're out of luck I believe. (Legal issues with shipping queen ants).
Definitely separate the two and see if that affects the feeding. That way you eliminate the possibility of the anorexia being caused by a dominant cage mate.


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## worm (Sep 24, 2007)

ok thanks for the replys you all, and honestly this has been fun....aparently most other forums, there are tree hugger people that seem to think only the expert keeper should keep these things. So i appriciate your patiants.  I have split them up and honestly they look so sad. The other one misses his friend and the anorexic one misses the dominate one.  They actually seem to be stressed out by not being with each other.  

  Agin I would like to like to use ants i just need to make shure they will stay in the cage and not get out.....cuz of my t's  Ants are usally the worse thing you can have with a t in the house , they will eat it alive.....not good.


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## Mushroom Spore (Sep 24, 2007)

worm said:


> aparently most other forums, there are tree hugger people that seem to think only the expert keeper should keep these things.


They aren't really wrong. The fact that you're having all these problems and now have to go raise an ant colony kinda proves it, unfortunately. But no use crying over what's done: you have them now, and you're doing what you can, and that's about the best it gets.  Good luck! And more pics if you can please.


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## worm (Sep 24, 2007)

Mushroom Spore said:


> They aren't really wrong. The fact that you're having all these problems and now have to go raise an ant colony kinda proves it, unfortunately. But no use crying over what's done: you have them now, and you're doing what you can, and that's about the best it gets.  Good luck! And more pics if you can please.




  Thanks for your nice way of just saying your an ass   Agin and i will not post for these guys because i see that i am getting no where, I am new with lizards but not a expert nor a novice....its funny cuz its like you need some sort of badging sytem or gauge for people to know how much you know about your pet.   Honestly unless your the damn scientist that built the things i dont need the lecture. As you know if you ever owned a pet for the first time wich apparently you havent starting is the hardest part.  I feel bad for other people like me who want to get into the hobbie but cant becuase they get beat by the nut jobs:wall:  I had been into the spider and tarantula kick since i was a kid, and honestly alot of people think "what a nut job" but the differance is that if someone was curious and wanted to know how to keep a spider or tarantula i would gladly tell them because i wish more people weret so affraid of them and wanted to keep them like i did.  
  So to make a long story short  Horned Lizards are not an appocolips or something new that just came out nor are they endangered in some places so give up and eather help people asking questions or get a masters degree in horned lizards and ill listen to you..


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## Mushroom Spore (Sep 24, 2007)

Uh...way to get defensive and call me a nut job for...telling the truth? :? Extremely delicate animals with extremely specific diets that are difficult to obtain in captivity really *are* for experienced keepers, if anyone, because they tend to be a lot of trouble.

If you actually read my entire comment, I was on your side. I'm not now. Good day.


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## mindlessvw (Sep 25, 2007)

*The diet of most horned lizards species varies from 60-90% harvester ants *of the genus Pogonomyrmex, though they are opportunistic and supplement these with termites, beetles, grasshoppers and other small insects. *In California, Texas, and other states, horned lizards are considered threatened and given state protection, though none are on the federal endangered species list.* The Texas horned lizard has declined in about 30% of its range, though there is some indication it may be making a comeback. Some California horned lizard species are also in decline. The decline is usually blamed on development/destruction of habitat, the spread of non-native South American ants which compete and war with the harvester ant, and from overuse of pesticides which kill harvester ants. In California, the introduced species is the Argentine ant. In Texas, it is both the Argentine ant and the Brazilian fire ant. Both species are highly aggressive, fiercely territorial, and prey upon harvester ant queens, destroying the horned lizard's *principal source of food*.


this was from wikipedia...they are not endangered but are protected...so you were slightly right...

I think what he was trying to say was this is a difficult lizard to keep and maybe you should have done a bit more reading prior to purchasing them...just a suggestion for future purchases...but really if you don't want to keep their staple food diet then you need to hand them off to someone who will...i absalutely despise roachs so i do not keep anything that would require me to feed it those(no offense to the roach people) 

these are just a few suggestions...


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## Dark (Sep 25, 2007)

I know I probably shouldn't be talking because I have said my fair share of stupid things on these forums but when it comes to horned toads from experience, Which 100% regret just for the record, I purchased a horned toad once at a reptile show and the guy said to me just crickets and it would be fine, a week later he started getting skinny and dying, so I started ordering harvester ants and he flourished and then eventually out of no where just kicked. The ants were annoying because they can sting, and Horn toads are just very very fragile and really don't think they are suppose to be pets. since you have them and are stuck with them I would just order the Harvester ants or donate them to experts.


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## M.F.Bagaturov (Sep 26, 2007)

Some info and food for thoughts.
- _Pianka, E. R. and W. S. Parker . 1975. Ecology of horned lizards : A review with special reference to Phrynosoma platyrhinos. Copeia 1975: 141-162_found here.
- _Pianka, E. R. and W. L. Hodges . 1998. Horned lizards. Reptiles 6 (6): 48-63 _found here;
- _Hodges, Wendy Lea. Phrynosoma systematics, comparative reproductive ecology, and conservation of a Texas native [electronic resource]. Doctoral dissertation, The University of Texas at Austin_, found here.

These are just for Your start to great knowledge of Phrynosoma spp.

But even had all this knew by heart it is not simple to provide the appropriate conditions to these fantastic lizards.
Anyway, good luck!


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## Ewok (Sep 26, 2007)

I had a wild caught horned lizard that was given to me by a navajo girl who almost stepped on it on the reservation in AZ. That was when I was 8, the lizard didn't live long  That is great they are being captive bred so more people can enjoy them.  I hope your little guys thrive and do well.


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