# Tarantula and frog enclosure



## johnnygoblin (Jan 14, 2019)

I have a 50 gallon fish tank I was thinking of turning into a vivarium is there any wau I could put a waterfall habitat on one side for a dart frog or two and on the other a arboreal environment for a tarantula


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## BoyFromLA (Jan 14, 2019)

Nope. Two seperate enclosures, yes.


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## johnnygoblin (Jan 14, 2019)

BoyFromLA said:


> Nope. Two seperate enclosures, yes.


What if I used a screen division so that the humidity from the waterfall still works and it isn't noticeable I or are there any like parasites etc that could cross I'm not taking into account


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## BoyFromLA (Jan 14, 2019)

Johnnygoblin01 said:


> What if I used a screen division so that the humidity from the waterfall still works and it isn't noticeable I or are there any like parasites etc that could cross I'm not taking into account


Still nope.

Here are the problems:

1. The way of keeping frogs and tarantulas are different. Not only that, one will get eaten by the other.

2. Hence you can’t keep them together.

3. Therefore, having a divider or not, they can’t be kept in same tank.

4. Two seperate enclosures is your best and only way to keep them.

Reactions: Love 1


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## Dennis Nedry (Jan 14, 2019)

Dart frogs would be a no. If you could find dotted humming frogs for sale you could give it a try with a Xenesthis immanis. Though you would need to take the care for both species into account. I’m pretty sure one of the main reasons the tarantula won’t eat them like it would eat any other small frog is that they’re toxic, I’m not sure if they’re like many other frogs where they get this toxin from their prey but if it is the case you would need to provide them with prey that would give them the toxins they need to reduce the chance of them getting eaten

Edit: also let me guess, you’ve either seen an article about the frog and tarantula or you’ve seen Tierzoo’s new YouTube videos?


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## johnnygoblin (Jan 14, 2019)

Dennis Nedry said:


> Dart frogs would be a no. If you could find dotted humming frogs for sale you could give it a try with a Xenesthis immanis. Though you would need to take the care for both species into account. I’m pretty sure one of the main reasons the tarantula won’t eat them like it would eat any other small frog is that they’re toxic, I’m not sure if they’re like many other frogs where they get this toxin from their prey but if it is the case you would need to provide them with prey that would give them the toxins they need to reduce the chance of them getting eaten
> 
> Edit: also let me guess, you’ve either seen an article about the frog and tarantula or you’ve seen Tierzoo’s new YouTube videos?


I figured if I gave them enough space or used a divider and kept tarantula well fed it wouldn't beab problem



Dennis Nedry said:


> Dart frogs would be a no. If you could find dotted humming frogs for sale you could give it a try with a Xenesthis immanis. Though you would need to take the care for both species into account. I’m pretty sure one of the main reasons the tarantula won’t eat them like it would eat any other small frog is that they’re toxic, I’m not sure if they’re like many other frogs where they get this toxin from their prey but if it is the case you would need to provide them with prey that would give them the toxins they need to reduce the chance of them getting eaten
> 
> Edit: also let me guess, you’ve either seen an article about the frog and tarantula or you’ve seen Tierzoo’s new YouTube videos?[/QUOTEbut I did find this
> 
> ...


After i made the thread I found this When I made thread I found this


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## Patherophis (Jan 14, 2019)

Johnnygoblin01 said:


> What if I used a screen division so that the humidity from the waterfall still works and it isn't noticeable I or are there any like parasites etc that could cross I'm not taking into account





Johnnygoblin01 said:


> I figured if I gave them enough space or used a divider and kept tarantula well fed it wouldn't beab problem


There is no way to feed it enough to poit when it would ignore cohabitants.
Divided enclosures are not considered good idea here, as there were cases of animals (Ts) managing to get from one part to other. Also Ts generaly dont prefer high air humidity.


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## Dennis Nedry (Jan 14, 2019)

Johnnygoblin01 said:


> I figured if I gave them enough space or used a divider and kept tarantula well fed it wouldn't beab problem


Problem with that is you’re not going to be able to feed the tarantula as soon as it starts feeling hungry because you’re not gonna be able to tell if it is or isn’t hungry until it grabs the frog. And with species like X. immanis that have been observed with frogs they’re nearly always hungry


Patherophis said:


> There is no way to feed it enough to poit when it would ignore cohabitants.


Especially with a tropical NW terrestrial like X. immanis, they are eating machines


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## antinous (Jan 14, 2019)

Dennis Nedry said:


> Dart frogs would be a no. If you could find dotted humming frogs for sale you could give it a try with a Xenesthis immanis. Though you would need to take the care for both species into account. I’m pretty sure one of the main reasons the tarantula won’t eat them like it would eat any other small frog is that they’re toxic, I’m not sure if they’re like many other frogs where they get this toxin from their prey but if it is the case you would need to provide them with prey that would give them the toxins they need to reduce the chance of them getting eaten
> 
> Edit: also let me guess, you’ve either seen an article about the frog and tarantula or you’ve seen Tierzoo’s new YouTube videos?


According to my friend who took the photos of the frog with the tarantula (It’s an undescribed Pamphobeteus sp. not Xenesthis, unless they’re able to tolerate these frogs too), it’s interesting to see. He’s seen them pick them up and put them down in some cases.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Dennis Nedry (Jan 14, 2019)

antinous said:


> According to my friend who took the photos of the frog with the tarantula (It’s an undescribed Pamphobeteus sp. not Xenesthis, unless they’re able to tolerate these frogs too), it’s interesting to see. He’s seen them pick them up and put them down in some cases.


I think it’s been observed in several species of tarantulas with several species of Microhylid frogs actually so that wouldn’t surprise me, only I think its Xenethsis that specifically lives with the dotted humming frog unless it’s the other way round and it’s the Pampho with the humming frog, or possibly both. Pretty sure somebody made a long and detailed post about it and the different species observed together here on AB but I don’t remember where or the species mentioned


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## johnnygoblin (Jan 14, 2019)

Ok like I said it was just a thought I have this 50 gallon tank and was thinking of what to do with it I thought a dart frog and rain forest species of tarantula might be able to live in the same enclosure since the come from the same environment


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## Chris LXXIX (Jan 14, 2019)

Johnnygoblin01 said:


> Ok like I said it was just a thought I have this 50 gallon tank and was thinking of what to do with it I thought a dart frog and rain forest species of tarantula might be able to live in the same enclosure since the come from the same environment


IMO those 50 gallon (and more) tank/s should be used only for aquarium/fish 'n stuff, not for T's, never, no matter the species.

Isn't 'overkill'... *more*, and would be annoying to check and control, in such a huuge space, substrate moistness etc (unless you place a 'Grammo' or the _likes_ of 'Grammos' inside that, but well).


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## johnnygoblin (Jan 14, 2019)

Chris LXXIX said:


> IMO the likes of 50 gallon (and more) tank/s should be used only for aquarium/
> 
> 
> Chris LXXIX said:
> ...


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## Chris LXXIX (Jan 14, 2019)

@Johnnygoblin01


> That's why I thought I would put dart frogs one half and an arboreal tarantula on the other side with a space in between like a buffer zone


Yes, I've read that but I didn't even replied, man 

I mean, was IMO a too wrong (nothing bad into asking something, anyway, don't get me wrong) at every level, besides, others already answered before me.

Splitting a huge enclosure/put a space in the middle of those etc... nope. Mostly is a recipe for a disaster and btw, what about the 'humidity' part? Now ain't a Dart Frog expert at all, but they needs a kinda humid environment, sorta 'paludarium' (I think) while no arboreal T's needs something like that. A warranty for headaches.

So, bottom line, my advice is don't be mad or complicate your life with that. The truth is that, the likes of 50 gallon enclosures aren't suitable (more correct, exaggerated) for T's, they are 'impractical'.


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## johnnygoblin (Jan 14, 2019)

I'm not mad i just was curious

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Chris LXXIX (Jan 14, 2019)

Johnnygoblin01 said:


> I'm not mad i just was curious


I didn't said that you are mad, and nothing wrong about asking questions 

I've said 'don't be mad', 'don't bother with' etc because wouldn't work... in sum = don't


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## Rhino1 (Jan 19, 2019)

Not saying this is a good idea but just thinking about it, having a solid glass, permanent divider siliconed in place and screen tops would be like 2 seperate tanks.
Or why not put 2 smaller tanks side by side and make it look like the decor plants follow through to the next tank, you could like cut a log with the join following through into the next tank, use same substrate plants etc
Back in the late 90's I kept green tree frogs (litoria) with 2 jaguar python hybrids (morelia) for well over 12 months in the same enclosure with no dividers all were healthy and functioned normally there was no symbiotic relationship or any sort of undue stress noticed.
This was the story mentioned with humming frog.
http://www.isopoda.net/contents/the-odd-couple-spider-frog-mutualism-in-the-amazon-rainforest/


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## EtienneN (Jan 19, 2019)

Even with a "permanent" divider, it's still a massively horrible idea. The number of precise variables involved in real world ecosystem is such that not even the top rated zoos can truly mimic a "completely naturalistic" environment. The care requirements are massively different for amphibians and theraphosid spiders. Too much humidity will kill a spider in captivity. A hungry spider will kill a frog in captivity. Or else they'll both die due to unforeseen husbandry mistakes. Sell that 50 gallon tank. Buy two more suitable enclosures, one for the tarantula, and one for the frogs.


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