# P Rufilata Enclosure



## Psingletongolf (Jan 27, 2015)

Let me know what you think. "She" is about 3 Inches currently.
View attachment 133874
View attachment 133874


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## fuzzyavics72 (Jan 27, 2015)

That exoterra is way too big for a three inch speciemen. Indeed she will get big, but it takes awhile. I wouldn't put anything under five inches in that exoterra. Second your stick is way too thin. You should get cork and a pothos plant. Also your bottle cap water dish looks tacky in an exoterra. I actually have to redo my cambridgei female's exo. I'll post some pictures on your thread later.

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## Psingletongolf (Jan 28, 2015)

fuzzyavics72 said:


> That exoterra is way too big for a three inch speciemen. Indeed she will get big, but it takes awhile. I wouldn't put anything under five inches in that exoterra. Second your stick is way too thin. You should get cork and a pothos plant. Also your bottle cap water dish looks tacky in an exoterra. I actually have to redo my cambridgei female's exo. I'll post some pictures on your thread later.


 The stick is too small but the tank is too big..... how big do you think that tank is? and how thick do you think the stick is/ needs to be?  PS look again its not a bottle cap and for that matter IDGAF (fruit) if you think its tacky, I think it looks better then ones you can buy and besides its my tank not yours! 

Anyone else have any opinions, one that I may value ???


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## Austin S. (Jan 28, 2015)

Fuzzys opinion is highly valued by everyone. I would listen to what he is telling you and not pop off. I do agree with him as well. You still can use the tank, but have more hiding places for it. More cork bark. The dish is fine. Are there just ventilation holes at the top, or do you have some on the sides as well?

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## eldondominicano (Jan 28, 2015)

What are the dimensions of the exo teraa tank? For a 3-4 inch specimen I'd house it in an ecnclosure about 12- 15 inches in height and at most 10 inches in L and W . For these larger specimens its sometimes it seems they need a medium enclosure before put into a larger one initially. Decent looking enclosure but yea could use some cork bark for better hiding spots. The only comment I Have on that water dish is size. Doesn't seem big enough to impact humidity. That's the second reason water dishes are used, not just for T hydration. If the T is too small for a larger dish, all the more reason for smaller housing so the dish can be put to better use.

Heres a pic of two of my P. Regalis' enclosures


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## eldondominicano (Jan 28, 2015)

I really hate how this happens to me virtually every time. But if you can look sideways then your all set. LOl

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## miss moxie (Jan 28, 2015)

Psingletongolf said:


> The stick is too small but the tank is too big..... how big do you think that tank is? and how thick do you think the stick is/ needs to be?  PS look again its not a bottle cap and for that matter IDGAF (fruit) if you think its tacky, I think it looks better then ones you can buy and besides its my tank not yours!
> 
> Anyone else have any opinions, one that I may value ???


You probably won't value them for the simple fact that they aren't what you what you want to hear, but you posted on a public forum and can't control the responses you get.

1. The 'potential' P. rufliata enclosure is far too big for a specimen that size. It would also benefit from a decent sized slab of cork bark, as well as some fake foliage. The green vines with suction cups would work well with the glass walls.

2. I say potential enclosure, because according to your instagram-- the P. ruf is already in the aforementioned enclosure. So asking was a moot point since you were going to do what you wanted to do anyway.

3. Not the topic of the thread, but since you advertise your IG and are looking for enclosure advice-- Glass jars make terrible enclosures, especially for Avicularia species. Avicularia absolutely need cross ventilation to thrive. Too much substrate, and it doesn't look like there are any sticks or fake plants for them to use as anchor points or made hides within.

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eldondominicano said:


> I really hate how this happens to me virtually every time. But if you can look sideways then your all set. LOl


I just turned my laptop sideways. I love that enclosure!

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## eldondominicano (Jan 28, 2015)

miss moxie said:


> You probably won't value them for the simple fact that they aren't what you what you want to hear, but you posted on a public forum and can't control the responses you get.
> 
> 1. The 'potential' P. rufliata enclosure is far too big for a specimen that size. It would also benefit from a decent sized slab of cork bark, as well as some fake foliage. The green vines with suction cups would work well with the glass walls.
> 
> ...


The truth. If you want to post publically you have to be willing to listen. And thanks Miss Moxie! I give them a hide, water dish and some foliage to web and climb on and they love it!! The one with the PVC hide is very bold and stays out in the open ALOT.


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## Psingletongolf (Jan 28, 2015)

miss moxie said:


> You probably won't value them for the simple fact that they aren't what you what you want to hear, but you posted on a public forum and can't control the responses you get.
> 
> 1. The 'potential' P. rufliata enclosure is far too big for a specimen that size. It would also benefit from a decent sized slab of cork bark, as well as some fake foliage. The green vines with suction cups would work well with the glass walls.
> 
> ...


If your going to look at my ig I would recommend looking at dates. I have nothing in glass with the excexception of the Rufilata.  Temporary housing when I first started getting into t's before I found deli cups. So yest all my avic are in plasti with cross ventilation. Second there is a hide in there don't know if anyone noticed it or not but there is an opening where the moss is that goes to the bottom of the tank.  
The tank is an 18x12x12 and you think this is too large yet 14 x10 x 10 isn't ?  And yes I did rehouse the t as none of the point by the only comment at the time were a large concern minus size and that a whole different debate.  Corkback is be searched for with no success yet. And humidy is fine.


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## miss moxie (Jan 28, 2015)

Psingletongolf said:


> If your going to look at my ig I would recommend looking at dates. I have nothing in glass with the excexception of the Rufilata.  Temporary housing when I first started getting into t's before I found deli cups.


.......the picture I'm referring to is from 2 months ago, November 16th, 2014.

Is that when you first started getting into Ts? Two months ago? Well then pardon us, I'm sure you know much better than Fuzzy or Eldondominicano.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=corkbark

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## eldondominicano (Jan 28, 2015)

miss moxie said:


> .......the picture I'm referring to is from 2 months ago, November 16th, 2014.
> 
> Is that when you first started getting into Ts? Two months ago? Well then pardon us, I'm sure you know much better than Fuzzy or Eldondominicano.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=corkbark


You forgot to add yourself in to that list Miss Moxie . Great link. I need to re-up on my cork bark soon lol. All we are trying to do is help Psingletongolf. Of course you can take it or leave it. Tarantulas like to feel safe and fairly enclosed in their housing, being able to find their prey easier. In the wild tarantulas don't make homes for themselves that large proportionately to their size. Your 3" Rufilata would be fine for a long time and less stressed in an enclosure it could call its home. Something no more than 4 times its legspan in height on and no more than around 3-4 times it legspan in length and width. Thats plenty of space to roam, feel secure and find prey fairly easy


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## miss moxie (Jan 28, 2015)

eldondominicano said:


> You forgot to add yourself in to that list Miss Moxie . Great link. I need to re-up on my cork bark soon lol. All we are trying to do is help Psingletongolf. Of course you can take it or leave it. Tarantulas like to feel safe and fairly enclosed in their housing, being able to find their prey easier. In the wild tarantulas don't make homes for themselves that large proportionately to their size. Your 3" Rufilata would be fine for a long time and less stressed in an enclosure it could call its home. Something no more than 4 times its legspan in height on and no more than around 3-4 times it legspan in length and width. Thats plenty of space to roam, feel secure and find prey fairly easy


Precisely. You're sitting there saying "What's the difference between 18x12x12 and 14x10x10?" and to us it doesn't seem like much. But you're not living in the enclosure, your 3.5" P. rufilata is. To your 3.5" spider, 4x2x2 makes a lot of difference.

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## eldondominicano (Jan 28, 2015)

miss moxie said:


> Precisely. You're sitting there saying "What's the difference between 18x12x12 and 14x10x10?" and to us it doesn't seem like much. But you're not living in the enclosure, you're 3.5" P. rufilata is. To your 3.5" spider, 4x2x2 makes a lot of difference.


What would life be like in an acrylic box i wonder.... I'd get pretty fat quick off a cricket diet lol.


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## Psingletongolf (Jan 28, 2015)

miss moxie said:


> .......the picture I'm referring to is from 2 months ago, November 16th, 2014.
> 
> Is that when you first started getting into Ts? Two months ago? Well then pardon us, I'm sure you know much better than Fuzzy or Eldondominicano.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=corkbark


Didn't mean it as I know more but when your in a bad mood and yea you know. Thanks for the link. That should help. And when you say wall plants are you talking the ones for reptiles with the suction cup ?  and as far as the stick that's too small how big should it be.


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## eldondominicano (Jan 28, 2015)

Psingletongolf said:


> Didn't mean it as I know more but when your in a bad mood and yea you know. Thanks for the link. That should help. And when you say wall plants are you talking the ones for reptiles with the suction cup ?  and as far as the stick that's too small how big should it be.


It's up to you on the foliage, I have bought suction, and suction less plants but just make sure whatever is used is stable enough for webbing and/or climbing, cuz your T will climb. As for the stick, if you really want to keep it in there make sure you add a hide better than Moss The stick at this point should only be something to add for webbing purposes. Moss might be alright for slings up to maximum 1.5-2" to hide(even at that i have some sort of hide for arboreals as they grow into arboreal tendencies), but once they exceed that, they need something more substantial for a hide, in the case of arboreals, tree trunks, bark, hollow logs, etc..


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## miss moxie (Jan 28, 2015)

eldondominicano said:


> It's up to you on the foliage, I have bought suction, and suction less plants but just make sure whatever is used is stable enough for webbing and/or climbing, cuz your T will climb. As for the stick, if you really want to keep it in there make sure you add a hide better than Moss The stick at this point should only be something to add for webbing purposes. Moss might be alright for slings up to maximum 1.5-2" to hide(even at that i have some sort of hide for arboreals as they grow into arboreal tendencies), but once they exceed that, they need something more substantial for a hide, in the case of arboreals, tree trunks, bark, hollow logs, etc..


+1 -- Exactly. It's not that the branch is too small in size, more so that it doesn't really offer a decent amount of space to hide. Like a hollow log they can hide inside of and feel secure, and a flat piece of cork bark they can hide behind.

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## Psingletongolf (Jan 28, 2015)

The miss hide is actually a 4 in 45 degree elbow with moss glued to it so it's not just a pipe sticking out.   It's hard to see in the picture but I can loose my arm in it.  Not literally but you know what I mean.  And there is an old piece of cork back that's small from her old enclosure that she likes to use. But I do plan on getting more now that I miss moxie has given me a link.  Never though of Amazon


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## eldondominicano (Jan 28, 2015)

Psingletongolf said:


> The miss hide is actually a 4 in 45 degree elbow with moss glued to it so it's not just a pipe sticking out.   It's hard to see in the picture but I can loose my arm in it.  Not literally but you know what I mean.  And there is an old piece of cork back that's small from her old enclosure that she likes to use. But I do plan on getting more now that I miss moxie has given me a link.  Never though of Amazon


Awesome. When looking at the hides, get something that it can grow into a bit.


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## viper69 (Jan 29, 2015)

I'm curious - for EVERYONE that says that container is too big for his 3" rufi, are you all saying that in the wild, all 3" rufi's live in a domain that is smaller than his Exo-Terra???

I'd be surprised if THAT was the case.


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## Psingletongolf (Jan 29, 2015)

miss moxie said:


> Precisely. You're sitting there saying "What's the difference between 18x12x12 and 14x10x10?" and to us it doesn't seem like much. But you're not living in the enclosure, your 3.5" P. rufilata is. To your 3.5" spider, 4x2x2 makes a lot of difference.


 ps its not a 4x2x2 difference its a 4x12x12 + 2X12X14 + 2X10X14 for a grand total  1192 inches cubed


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## TsunamiSpike (Jan 29, 2015)

viper69 said:


> I'm curious - for EVERYONE that says that container is too big for his 3" rufi, are you all saying that in the wild, all 3" rufi's live in a domain that is smaller than his Exo-Terra???
> 
> I'd be surprised if THAT was the case.


Do they have little bottle caps as water bowls in the wild? ;-)

It's irrelevant what wild specimens live in, these are captive, ergo it comes down to what we are willing to provide them with in terms of space (as long as we're not under-spacing them...if that's a word).. And to be fair, a 3in in the wild probably wouldn't make use of much more space than that anyway.


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## eldondominicano (Jan 29, 2015)

viper69 said:


> I'm curious - for EVERYONE that says that container is too big for his 3" rufi, are you all saying that in the wild, all 3" rufi's live in a domain that is smaller than his Exo-Terra???
> 
> I'd be surprised if THAT was the case.


Lol you have a point, but not the point I was trying to make. I'm making the point that within a certain area in the wild Tarantulas make enclosed homes. Yes one could argue that in the wild they are contending with the open world. Which is true. But within that open world, such as within an enclosure in captivity they make secure homes. Sorry if my point came across the wrong way. Have you seen Tarantulas out in the wild? My Dad has. Native to tropical country my dad has a lot of experience with Tarantulas. And they definitely don't pick a 2 foot perimeter and say "this is mine" lol. Instead they pick a rather small area proportionately and make their homes. Aside from Vagabond MM's that is.


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## viper69 (Jan 30, 2015)

TsunamiSpike said:


> Do they have little bottle caps as water bowls in the wild? ;-)
> 
> It's irrelevant what wild specimens live in, these are captive, ergo it comes down to what we are willing to provide them with in terms of space (as long as we're not under-spacing them...if that's a word).. And to be fair, a 3in in the wild probably wouldn't make use of much more space than that anyway.


No I disagree, it matters because many people say it's too large, OK- why?? I want to see their logic. 

Too large for what? Hah

---------- Post added 01-29-2015 at 09:03 PM ----------




eldondominicano said:


> Lol you have a point, but not the point I was trying to make. I'm making the point that within a certain area in the wild Tarantulas make enclosed homes. Yes one could argue that in the wild they are contending with the open world. Which is true. But within that open world, such as within an enclosure in captivity they make secure homes. Sorry if my point came across the wrong way. Have you seen Tarantulas out in the wild? My Dad has. Native to tropical country my dad has a lot of experience with Tarantulas. And they definitely don't pick a 2 foot perimeter and say "this is mine" lol. Instead they pick a rather small area proportionately and make their homes. Aside from Vagabond MM's that is.


I hear ya, but I still think some species expand that volume of a container at that size. There's board member using telemetry to track them. We will see!

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## jigalojey (Jan 30, 2015)

Why ask for an opinion if you're going to go nuts when you don't get the opinion you desired???

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## eldondominicano (Jan 30, 2015)

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viper69 said:


> I hear ya, but I still think some species expand that volume of a container at that size. There's board member using telemetry to track them. We will see!


I'm glad you brought this up. Initially, people will argue that its up for methodology and interpretation. Everyone does it a bit different. I'll bring this up though. Hoe do we determine age of tarantulas? Of course captivity, and longevity. And maybe there is a way to determine the age of w/c Tarantulas, that I don't know. The question is in the wild, does more space go to benefit a longer lifespan for the Tarantula? I think not. I believe Tarantulas have been able to live longer in captivity due to our methodology as a Tarantula hobbyist Body. I like that you brought this to our attention because it is very interesting. And as to your specific comment I agree, but it all depends on the species, and the size, of course


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## Angel Minkov (Jan 30, 2015)

Agree with viper69. Why make such a fuss about the guy's enclosure size? P. rufilatas don't live in appropriately sized enclosures in the wild, do they?


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## viper69 (Jan 30, 2015)

eldondominicano said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> I'm glad you brought this up. Initially, people will argue that its up for methodology and interpretation. Everyone does it a bit different. I'll bring this up though. Hoe do we determine age of tarantulas? Of course captivity, and longevity. And maybe there is a way to determine the age of w/c Tarantulas, that I don't know. The question is in the wild, does more space go to benefit a longer lifespan for the Tarantula? I think not. I believe Tarantulas have been able to live longer in captivity due to our methodology as a Tarantula hobbyist Body. I like that you brought this to our attention because it is very interesting. And as to your specific comment I agree, but it all depends on the species, and the size, of course


I'm not concerned with life span in any of my comments. Just the so called "too large" rationale of container size- based on what? It's something I've found amusing and interested in reading why people think it's too large. It's not like the T will think "oh my this is too big I don't deserve this", and end up in a death curl heheh

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Angel Minkov said:


> Agree with viper69. Why make such a fuss about the guy's enclosure size? P. rufilatas don't live in appropriately sized enclosures in the wild, do they?


Exactly!!! They don't - though I'm sure they have some home range, just dont think it's the size of the OPs container that is "too
Large"


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## Angel Minkov (Jan 30, 2015)

Are you referring to their hides as "home range"? 

I've always wondered if tarantulas actually know they live in a closed space? Do they make a difference, or do they perceive the whole room as open space, not just the enclosure. I've always wondered about that.


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## miss moxie (Jan 30, 2015)

Well, maybe it being "too big" isn't really so much an issue and more that the space is too "open". Fill in some of the space with foliage and bark, give them something they can feel secure inside of rather than a wide open place. Because in the wild, they can move around and locate a spot that makes them secure. In an enclosure they can't do that. They have to use what they give them. So give them more to work with, more to feel comfortable with. 

That's what I think anyway, I'm certainly not the last word on tarantula psychology.

Also, haha this is a proud moment for me. I've finally made it into someone's signature thanks to Angel.

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## azroc909 (Jan 30, 2015)

I agree with eldondominicano, Fuzzy, Austin, miss moxie, that the enclosure would be best fit for the tarantula in proportion to its size. Even if in the wild they have the whole world to their disposal, you wouldn't house a T in a bedroom all by itself. If you do end up using a exo 12x12x18 provide sufficient places for it to hide.

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## fuzzyavics72 (Jan 30, 2015)

First off, I appreciate the hobbyists who stood up for me.  I've haven't had a chance to reply sooner.

Now let me elaborate about what I said. Yes your stick is long, but your rufi can't hide in. Most pokies live in decaying trees. I apologize about the tacky water dish. I try to make their enclosures all natural. Also your tank is way too open, your rufi needs to hide to feel safe. I actually give all of my pokies like six inches of sub because they like to dig and play in the substrate.

 Unfortunately I can't post  pictures of my exo for my cambridgei from my phone. I'll post them later after work.

---------- Post added 01-30-2015 at 06:22 PM ----------

Also I forgot that most wood isn't heat treated like cork. Anf that can cause major issues down the road.

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## Angel Minkov (Jan 31, 2015)

miss moxie said:


> Also, haha this is a proud moment for me. I've finally made it into someone's signature thanks to Angel.


It was too good to pass out on HAHA


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## JanPhilip (Feb 1, 2015)

If the log is hollow and she can fit, I think the cage is perfectly fine. When you put more cork and other branches in there, she will have a lot more surface to use in the tank though. Now it just has a lot of  unused space. Fake plants are great for slings in big boxes. They can web up the leaves and make their home wherever they feel like it. Most people keep spiders in small containers, which is perfectly fine. It is easier to monitor them and you can be sure that they got the food you put in there - but mainly it is done to keep more individuals in the same space. That being said, I have had great results with bigger containers. It might take a few days for the cricket to meet its end, but they will eventually. I currently keep almost all my slings in 20x20x20cm containers and have no trouble what so ever. I have 2 P. miranda slings in big containers and I see them a lot more then I used to. They are growing perfectly fine and usually the crickets are gone by the next morning. I could probably keep around 30 spiders the same size within the same total volume in smaller containers, but I don't have the time to take care of such a big collection any more and I enjoy them more this way. I think the idea of "appropriate sized caging" is absolute bulloop:. If the container is secure (!) and it is set up properly, bigger is always better IMO.

just my 2cents.


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## eldondominicano (Feb 1, 2015)

JanPhilip said:


> I think the idea of "appropriate sized caging" is absolute bulloop:


I respect your perspective, and am not claiming to be the end all know all in my comments. But this isn't necessary to prove your point.


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## raggamuffin415 (Feb 6, 2015)

I agree... sure I could house 100 t's in my closet if I want them all in tupperware containers. Part of the appeal to me (and others I'd imagine) is to house my collection in natural looking enclosures that compliment (and show off) the beauty of my babies. Don't want to have to dig through containers and pull open the top just to get a look. At the same time, even in nicely made enclosures sometimes the t's don't make themselves seen anyway 

My rufilata is only around 2''+... cant wait til shes big enough to go into a nice big tank. Gonna be a while lol...


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