# Is it possible to overfeed your T's?



## Zman181 (Jul 3, 2010)

My slings eat almost daily.  Their abdomens are very big for their size. Here is are just 2 of my fat slings. 1st in the light resistant vial is a New River Rust Rump and the other is a Mexican Red Knee.


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## Versi*JP*Color (Jul 3, 2010)

Don't feed daily, feed weekly.
If you keep it up they get fatter and POP.


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## x Mr Awesome x (Jul 3, 2010)

SpyderBoy606 said:


> Don't feed daily, feed weekly.
> If you keep it up they get fatter and POP.




^^^ What?!?! Uh no you can feed it until it refuses food. Then it will molt. Then you can feed it until it refuses food. Then it will molt. Then you can...

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Zman181 (Jul 3, 2010)

Thanks....  i figured that.


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## Versi*JP*Color (Jul 3, 2010)

I mean like when you feed it way too much
ex:when a sling gets a 12 inch butt

It's healthier too feed weekly.


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## Miss Bianca (Jul 3, 2010)

I like to feed my slings twice a week, but once a week is definitely healthier than every day.
I have an obese murinus, who is fed as much as his siblings, 
but is fatter than them all. I also have another I'm feeding alot. 
The case with that one is he's missing two legs and a pedipalp. 
(He's fine though! Appetite's awesome.)

I also fed an L. parahybana once so much because it was that appetite
 was amazing! 
It molted , ate once 12 days later, and fasted for about a month, after which he found himself in premolt again. Shiny black bottom and everything.
I do think tarantulas can be fed too much.
Once or twice a week is good for any specimen in my book, feeding adequately sized prey.


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## proper_tea (Jul 3, 2010)

I've heard that Ts can be overfed, but I've never actually seen evidence of it.  I mean, certainly they become less agile... but it's not like I've had one die as a result.  If mine get to the point where they're nice and fat, they'll usually start eating less frequently... even if they're not pre-molt.  If a T starts refusing food, I'll take it out, and if it doesn't look like the T is on the verge of molting, I'll try again in a week.  Frequently they'll eat again then.  From what I've found, most Ts will pig out post molt for a little while, and then settle into a more reasonable amount of eating.


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## hermzxd45 (Jul 3, 2010)

Is it really bad to overfeed? Cause i got a g. Pulchripes thats about 3 inches female and she loves to eat sometimes she eats like 4 crickets a day. For like the past week... Everyday...


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## PhobeToPhile (Jul 4, 2010)

I would call that overfeeding. Waaaayyyyy too much. Pulchripes are not L. parahybanas or Theraposa sp. Don't think there's been any study of it, but I would imagine that truly obese spiders would have to suffer SOME health consequences as a result...like maybe difficulty molting properly or righting themselves (particularly the later).


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## hassman789 (Jul 4, 2010)

A spider with a very large abdomen would probably be in alot of danger from the risk of him just rubbing it on somthing and it popping. So dont feed it TOO much!


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## TalonAWD (Jul 4, 2010)

I feed slings everyday and some even twice a day but keep them at really warm temps to speed up their digestion (80-85F). This in turns gets them to molt quick. I never had a problem. They know their limits. Just know that with a huge abdomen, theres more risk of it "popping" as one member put it it if was to fall from a height. So if you plan on having fat blimps with legs, make sure the substrate to ceiling height is restricted to prevent falls.

After they get to 3" I stop this endless buffet.


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## Mack&Cass (Jul 4, 2010)

Just because a spider will eat every day doesn't mean you have to feed it every day.

Cass


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## xhexdx (Jul 4, 2010)

Mack&Cass said:


> Just because a spider will eat every day doesn't mean you have to feed it every day.
> 
> Cass


Ditto this.

It's unnecessary and is (in my opinion) not worth the risk.

Not to mention there have already been countless threads on overfeeding - run a search (or just scroll to the bottom of this thread and look at the suggestions) to see past debates.  This topic has been beaten to death, then beaten some more.


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## AmbushArachnids (Jul 4, 2010)

It really is up to you on how much you feed. i have a 3" B. boehmei that i fed until its butt was soo huge. eventually she just stopped eating and went premolt for 3 weeks. gained 1" in a single molt.I love how it makes them grow alot in one molt. 

I am not sure how it affects there length of life but if you want a big T then feed feed feed. specialy if you plan on raising them to breed. 

there is always a risk of falling when there really fat and being injured. house them accordingly and they will be fine. 

keeping them at ambient 85-95 really helps growth. I took temps of my slings at 95 air temp. they were only 85 infared body temp. Slow growers native to southern states do very well in higher temps.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## TalonAWD (Jul 4, 2010)

agentd006las said:


> keeping them at ambient 85-95 really helps growth. I took temps of my slings at 95 air temp. they were only 85 infared body temp. Slow growers native to southern states do very well in higher temps.


The highest I have gone was 92F. Thats a good idea with the infrared gun to take their body temps. I have heard that whatever temps is ambient their body temps are usually a bit lower but never tried to seek truth to this. thanks for the info. I have to try this with my nephews heat gun on a really hot day.

Oh and +1 on your post

Reactions: Agree 1


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## winwin (Jul 4, 2010)

I have an A. Genic that I fed around every other day, food item is around the same size as abdomen, it molted and well the difference wasn't too big. Then I tried feeding it as much as it wanted to eat, 2x or 3x a day until it starts refusing food, well this time when she molted, the difference was huge. It's an sling and I'm not sure if it is just coincidence or feeding more does make a difference in molt-molt size gains.


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## x Mr Awesome x (Jul 4, 2010)

It makes a huge difference. Like Steve, I too powerfeed until the specimen is of a nice size with adult coloration. I don't like looking at pink baby spiders. The only consequence to powerfeeding beyond the three inch size is rushing the t through it's life cycle. It will mature faster and as a result probably expire sooner than a non-powerfed specimen would if every other variable were the same. Totally depends on your goals. If I have a male t and a breeding project to look forward to I will powerfeed to maturity and same goes for a female. Personally I have never seen an obese premolt t climb. In my experience terrestrials will become considerably more obese than an arboreal if given the opportunity. Of course, I keep smaller arboreals in vials. I've never had an adult arboreal get anywhere near as massive as a sling or juvenile even if I try. Adults don't have the appetite of a growing sling. I have never heard of a t 'popping' from eating too much. If there's evidence of this I'd sure like to see it.


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## Crows Arachnids (Jul 4, 2010)

*Please elaborate.*



xhexdx said:


> Ditto this.
> 
> It's unnecessary and is (in my opinion) not worth the risk.
> 
> Not to mention there have already been countless threads on overfeeding - run a search (or just scroll to the bottom of this thread and look at the suggestions) to see past debates.  This topic has been beaten to death, then beaten some more.



I looked at the suggestions, nothing concrete. I too have never seen a tarantula pop due to overfeeding, I believe that they know their limit. Can you define risk (in your estimation as it varies) for me, thanks my friend.


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## AmbushArachnids (Jul 4, 2010)

TalonAWD said:


> The highest I have gone was 92F. Thats a good idea with the infrared gun to take their body temps. I have heard that whatever temps is ambient their body temps are usually a bit lower but never tried to seek truth to this. thanks for the info. I have to try this with my nephews heat gun on a really hot day.
> 
> Oh and +1 on your post


thanks and your welcome. i like your vids on making enclosures, very informative and well thought out. I am debating on if i should get a xenethis immanis or get some of those rare slings you have for sale.. PM me with a price for 3 of them.


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## Hobo (Jul 4, 2010)

Here's a semi-relavent thread to this topic.
The pictures don't seem to be working, but you can see 'em here. Just keep clicking the next pic to see 'em all. *(they're graphic!)*

Though it likely wasn't overeating that caused it, it does show that having an exceptionally large abdomen could possibly cause some real damage.

Besides, a larger abdomen, as already stated, would increase the risk of injuries due to falls.

I myself "powerfed" my slings, but I learned to keep them _within reason_, and stopped when their abdomens became a little larger than their carapace. I suspect a lot of keepers that practice "powerfeeding" do the same.


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## xhexdx (Jul 4, 2010)

Crows Arachnids said:


> I looked at the suggestions, nothing concrete. I too have never seen a tarantula pop due to overfeeding, I believe that they know their limit. Can you define risk (in your estimation as it varies) for me, thanks my friend.


I don't necessarily believe they will rupture from overfeeding and only overfeeding, but the fatter the spider, the greater risk the abdomen will rupture op from a fall, etc.

There has been speculation (yes, nothing concrete, I suppose) that it will lower the spider's overall life expectancy.  No, I'm not talking about males maturing and dying more quickly.

I realize spiders and humans aren't even close to each other, but we know that it's not healthy for us to be obese...why would it be healthy for a spider (or any animal, for that matter) to be?

To me, it's not worth the risk just because I don't like spiderlings, or I don't like seeing 'pink spiders' and would rather see adult coloration.  If you want them to grow faster without the overfeeding risk, keep them in higher temperatures and feed them more often (once a week is still PLENTY), and you're fine.


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## x Mr Awesome x (Jul 4, 2010)

xhexdx said:


> To me, it's not worth the risk just because I don't like spiderlings, or I don't like seeing 'pink spiders' and would rather see adult coloration.


What 'risk' are you talking about? THERE ISN'T A RISK. If the thing has a really large abdomen and no space to fall then what is the risk? It really seems like all that is being said to argue the negative point of powerfeeding are based on superstition and assumption. The post prior to Joe's isn't even relevant. It has nothing to do with powerfeeding. As was theorized it was probably some bizarre blockage and infection set in by who knows what with a gravid female. I suppose we shouldn't feed gravid females heavily now? This has no relevance to me and my 'pink spiders' or anyone else wanting to feed their t's more than weekly and up to as often as the t will eat. Seriously guys. I can show you beautiful, healthy, TRIM t's that are in my collection that were stuffed to the gills at one point or another. Of course I stopped powerfeeding after a couple of molts. The abdomen is actually small now. Joe you are consistently of the point of view that if something isn't backed up by science or at the very least occasional results of keepers in the hobby it PROBABLY AIN'T TRUE. That is a general outline of your opinion. So why with this topic being made to be so different? You realize that t's and humans are completely different yet assume an obese t is unhealthy? Why? Based on what?


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## Redneck (Jul 4, 2010)

x Mr Awesome x said:


> What 'risk' are you talking about? THERE ISN'T A RISK. If the thing has a really large abdomen and no space to fall then what is the risk? It really seems like all that is being said to argue the negative point of powerfeeding are based on superstition and assumption. The post prior to Joe's isn't even relevant. It has nothing to do with powerfeeding. As was theorized it was probably some bizarre blockage and infection set in by who knows what with a gravid female. I suppose we shouldn't feed gravid females heavily now? This has no relevance to me and my 'pink spiders' or anyone else wanting to feed their t's more than weekly and up to as often as the t will eat. Seriously guys. I can show you beautiful, healthy, TRIM t's that are in my collection that were stuffed to the gills at one point or another. Of course I stopped powerfeeding after a couple of molts. The abdomen is actually small now. Joe you are consistently of the point of view that if something isn't backed up by science or at the very least occasional results of keepers in the hobby it PROBABLY AIN'T TRUE. That is a general outline of your opinion. So why with this topic being made to be so different? You realize that t's and humans are completely different yet assume an obese t is unhealthy? Why? Based on what?



So you dont think a tarantula that is disgustingly obese tarantula has no risk of rupturing? You dont think they are fragile?

I wont argue their health.. Simply because I dont know how it effects them..

But IMO a tarantula that is powerfed to the point that it "looks" like its going to burst is extremely fragile..

I think the "risk" that Joe is talking about is the frailty of that obese tarantula.. The fact that they are so fragile that the slightest fall will or could kill them.. Not only that.. But what if there is some decor in its enclosure? Does that also increase the risk of the tarantula rupturing its abdomen? I beleive so..

So feeding them everyday is a risk.. You can just offer them 2 prey items a week, & increase their temp.. That will get them to grow just as fast..

How do I know that will work? I had a female B. smithi.. She went from .5" to 3".. In less than 7 months.. I offered her 2 prey items every week.. I kept her at 83-86 degrees..

She never looked as if she was going to pop..


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## x Mr Awesome x (Jul 4, 2010)

There is no decor in the setups that I have powerfed t's in. it is substrate and a t. When they grow I give them a kritter keeper or 2.5g tank and the works without powerfeeding. So in my case at least I do not feel there is any inherent risk involved. Also I don't think you can say that it would be just as quick to grow on two prey items a week vs. seven if you haven't done an experiment between two same species specimens with all other factors the same. If someone were to, and I may, I think that would but the entire argument to rest. I too have had a lot of growth in t's in short amounts of time but never set out to document the process. My temps are around 83 degrees through the day. Someone with some slings do this experiment!!! Whichever proves best is what I'll be doing. I like fast growing t's.


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## Mack&Cass (Jul 4, 2010)

Mr Awesome-
How do you know that extreme powerfeeding _isn't_ unhealthy? The argument you're using can be turned around and applied to your logic as well. 

No one knows if powerfeeding is healthy or not, but it really just isn't worth it to have a tarantula so enlarged that the slightest fall or bump against something could be a risk of serious injury. Even if you have enough sub in an enclosure to prevent a fall, what if the T runs out of the enclosure and falls onto the floor. It has happened to us numerous times. When we had 5 rosea spiderlings, it was impossible to keep them in their enclosures when we were doing maintenance. They would constantly run out, and would fall from the edge of their enclosure onto the floor occasionally. It would only be about a 2" fall, but if their abdomens were extremely large, they may not have been able to survive the fall. 

Like I also said in my previous post, just because a tarantula will eat every day doesn't mean it needs to be fed every day. Tarantulas are opportunistic feeders, they don't know they're in captivity being fed by someone. They think they're out in the wild, and when food comes along they take it. They're not thinking "thanks captor for feeding me again, but I think I'm getting a little fat and should take it easy for a while". They're going to eat when presented with the opportunity, especially slings who need to get past their vulnerable size.

Cass


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## Redneck (Jul 4, 2010)

x Mr Awesome x said:


> There is no decor in the setups that I have powerfed t's in. it is substrate and a t. When they grow I give them a kritter keeper or 2.5g tank and the works without powerfeeding. So in my case at least I do not feel there is any inherent risk involved. Also I don't think you can say that it would be just as quick to grow on two prey items a week vs. seven if you haven't done an experiment between two same species specimens with all other factors the same. If someone were to, and I may, I think that would but the entire argument to rest. I too have had a lot of growth in t's in short amounts of time but never set out to document the process. My temps are around 83 degrees through the day. Someone with some slings do this experiment!!! Whichever proves best is what I'll be doing. I like fast growing t's.


Ok.. If there is no decor that lowers the risk of a ruptured abdomen.. 
But even then.. Not EVERYONE keeps their tarantulas the same as you do.. There is going to be someone that has their critter in a 10 gallon with 2" of substrate & a bunch of decor.. 

So yes.. There is a risk to feeding your tarantula everyday.. That risk is a ruptured abdomen.. Can you lower the risk? You sure can.. Remove all decor.. Have very little room from the top of the enclosure to the substrate.. 

Do you think there is any risk now?

What if you go to feed your tarantula & it jumps on top of the prey item flips around & lands on its back & its abdomen hits its water dish? 

Never seen it happen before? I have.. I saw it with my A. hentzi.. 

Am I say that is going to happen.. No.. I am saying its a possibilty.. Meaning.. There "is" a risk..

You are right about me not being able to say 2 prey items will make it grow as fast.. Since I have not had multiple specimens..

How about this for proof.. I fed my 4.25" female B. smithi one large cricket & 2 adult B. dubia.. Kept the temps up at the same as my smaller female B. smithi.. My larger B. smithi had molted in 2 months & is now 4.5"-4.75".. 

In my opinion & in my experiance.. Its not how much you feed them.. Its how warm you keep them..


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## Crows Arachnids (Jul 4, 2010)

Redneck said:


> So you dont think a tarantula that is disgustingly obese tarantula has no risk of rupturing? You dont think they are fragile?
> 
> I wont argue their health.. Simply because I dont know how it effects them..
> 
> ...



Mr. Awesome addressed the "risk" that you speak of, that vague possibility it may fall, or rub against some decor (I don't know of many that would decorate a spiderling's "enclosure"). The fact of the matter is, that risk exists no matter what, underfed or overfed, a fall is a fall and can damage if not kill the spider in question. I am not arguing the frailty but once again, what you are saying is not concrete. In fact Mr. Awesome eliminated that possibility by stating that you could eliminate the space it would have to climb and fall. Is there a risk other than falling? I suppose that is where my curiosity falls. An obese human faces diabetes, heart disease, etc. What does an obese spider face? Aside from the forementioned shortening of lifespan? Through all of the tarantulas I posess I have a shelf of about 200 that are 'powerfed' roughly 3-5 times a week for the very purpose of speeding their growth, out of 200 I have faced no issues, not to mention the hundereds I have done that to in the past, no issues, once again nothing concrete. In fact the males that I powerfeed tend to molt out into maturity not only faster, but much larger! In my estimation, that is a benefit! Heres the biggest kicker, they last longer after the ultimatum molt! The 'risks' are not concrete, there should be no debate until something is proven against it, which I doubt will happen. Seems to me the only thing that could be viewed as negative is that their lifespan is shortened, this I do believe to be true, but not on the basis of 'powerfeeding' alone, with the aid of temperature as well. Any factor outside the actual body of the tarantula is not a retort, for those of you who think otherwise, meaning no shipping, falling, rubbing against something etc. Those are factors outside the physical anatomy of a tarantula and are pertinent to every other creature as well, but not pertinent to their physical frustrations that may be faced due to obesity. I am more than open to thought, but please have proof! Thanks!


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## xhexdx (Jul 4, 2010)

Bottom line: Keep your spiders in a box full of dirt and it's ok, right?

What about if you bump the enclosure and it gets knocked over? Oops...

If you like fast growers, get species that grow quickly.

CA - you ask what the health risks are for overfed spiders...there are proven health risks for overfed humans and domestic animals, among others. What makes you think there *wouldn't *be health risks?


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## Miss Bianca (Jul 4, 2010)

I agree with Joe's input, (xhexdx)
Our responsibility as keepers is to keep them safe and try our best to have them healthy, 
as well as keeping them in their ideal conditions as possible 
(how they'd be in the wild)

As far as the feeding, it simply isnt necessary, nor do we have reason to believe it is, 
so why choose to overfeed? 
Desires to get them to adult size or the like, come about from human desires and opinions. 

The argument here seems to be why _not_ overfeed, and I ask, why _should_ you overfeed. 
Surely none of any reasons provided, come from having the best interest of the tarantula in mind.

You ask what's the risk involved? Well not knowing the answer to that and choosing to 
powerfeed is taking a risk in itself.

In the end each keeper will do as they choose, but as stated by Joe, 
the subject has been beaten to the death.


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## x Mr Awesome x (Jul 4, 2010)

Mack&Cass said:


> Mr Awesome-
> How do you know that extreme powerfeeding _isn't_ unhealthy? The argument you're using can be turned around and applied to your logic as well.
> 
> No one knows if powerfeeding is healthy or not, but it really just isn't worth it to have a tarantula so enlarged that the slightest fall or bump against something could be a risk of serious injury. Even if you have enough sub in an enclosure to prevent a fall, what if the T runs out of the enclosure and falls onto the floor. It has happened to us numerous times. When we had 5 rosea spiderlings, it was impossible to keep them in their enclosures when we were doing maintenance. They would constantly run out, and would fall from the edge of their enclosure onto the floor occasionally. It would only be about a 2" fall, but if their abdomens were extremely large, they may not have been able to survive the fall.
> ...



I don't know that it's not unhealthy. There's no point of logic reversal here either because what I'm saying is that if there isn't concrete evidence to support one concept over the other then there's no point in establishing a bandwagon of misinformation. I'm simply stating that if there is factual evidence to support one claim over the other then let's hear it. How's that? I like powerfeeding. It works for me. I have a system that I stick to and have yet to have an issue. If and when I do I will adjust that system. There's room in this hobby for my experience and I simply aim to voice that experience with honesty. In response to Redneck- By your measure there will always be risk in keeping t's whether related to powerfeeding or not. I could talk in hypotheticals too. What if... my t jumps out of it's cage and my dog or bearded dragon eats it? Hmmm... Maybe I should lessen the risk of harm to my t's by not keeping a dragon and dog. They pose a potential risk... If it isn't LIKELY to create an issue then maybe it shouldn't be considered a problem in the first place. Just my thought. I appreciate the input though guys. Mack, Cass, Redneck, I think you guys are all great. Don't mind it being a conversation. I'm not one of those guys that tries to belittle or condescend anyone that doesn't share my view. So let's keep this friendly discussion going! 

-ben


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## Redneck (Jul 4, 2010)

Crows Arachnids said:


> Mr. Awesome addressed the "risk" that you speak of, that vague possibility it may fall, or rub against some decor (I don't know of many that would decorate a spiderling's "enclosure"). The fact of the matter is, that risk exist no matter what, underfed or overfed, a fall is a fall and can damage if not kill the spider in question. I am not arguing the frailty but once again, what you are saying is not concrete. In fact Mr. Awesome eliminated that possibility by stating that you could eliminate the space it would have to climb and fall. Is there a risk other than falling? I suppose that is where my curiosity falls. An obese human faces diabetes, heart disease, etc. What does an obese spider face? Aside from the forementioned shortening of lifespan? Through all of the tarantulas I posess I have a shelf of about 200 that are 'powerfed' roughly 3-5 times a week for the very purpose of speeding their growth, out of 200 I have faced no issues, not to mention the hundereds I have done that to in the past, no issues, once again nothing concrete. *In fact the males that I powerfeed tend to molt out into maturity not only faster, but much larger! In my estimation, that is a benefit! Heres the biggest kicker, they last longer after the ultimatum molt!* The 'risks' are not concrete, there should be no debate until something is proven against it, which I doubt will happen. Seems to me the only thing that could be viewed as negative is that their lifespan is shortened, this I do believe to be true, but not on the basis of 'powerfeeding' alone, with the aid of temperature as well. Any factor outside the actual body of the tarantula is not a retort, for those of you who think otherwise, meaning no shipping, falling, rubbing against something etc. Those are factors outside the physical anatomy of a tarantula and are pertinent to every other creature as well, but not pertinent to their physical frustrations that may be faced due to obesity. I am more than open to thought, but please have proof! Thanks!


The one thing I have to comment on here is what I put in bold..

I had two male A. avic.. Got one at 4" the other at 3".. Both molted twice in my care.. I fed them the same diet.. One matured at 5.25" the other matured at 4".. Are you certain its the "powerfeeding" that is make the male mature larger?


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## Crows Arachnids (Jul 4, 2010)

Miss Bianca said:


> I agree with Joe's input, (xhexdx)
> Our responsibility as keepers is to keep them safe and try our best to have them healthy,
> as well as keeping them in their ideal conditions as possible
> (how they'd be in the wild)
> ...


Hello there! I appreciate your response and your opinion! I humbly disagree however  True they may come from human desires, but if said tarantula encounters a food item in the wild, on a consistent basis, I am sure it will eat until it is considered 'obese' (funny because that particular concept being applied to a tarantula is based on human opinion, when in truth we don't really know enough of the physical anatomy to decide if being such is unhealthy). The reverse logic is really unapplicable because I would venture to say that there are a multitude of benefits from powerfeeding. The fact of the matter is we will never be able to replicate what their life experience is out in the wild, a sad reality but because of that we can't apply logic there, think of temperature, humidity, threats, prey, predators, there is just too much. A tarantula doesn't run for fun, it runs from your hand, or its predator. So in the wild, do they burn energy by running from everything all day? There is competition out in the wild, that will never exist within it's enclosure unless you instigate that. The concept may have been beaten to death, but I love to hear new responses, or same responses from different people


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## Crows Arachnids (Jul 4, 2010)

Redneck said:


> The one thing I have to comment on here is what I put in bold..
> 
> I had two male A. avic.. Got one at 4" the other at 3".. Both molted twice in my care.. I fed them the same diet.. One matured at 5.25" the other matured at 4".. Are you certain its the "powerfeeding" that is make the male mature larger?


From spiderling to maturity, I truly believe this. I have had P. Miranda males (about 15 of them) mature out that all came out from the same sac. I powerfed 5 of them, they matured out more than a year faster than the others, in fact I sold some of them before they matured. Out of the 5 I powerfed, they matured out at about 5.5-6". The remaining 4 (ones I didn't sell and did not get powerfed) matured out with the largest being 4.5". I have seen other cases as well. However this is not a fact! I merely feel this is the case.


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## TalonAWD (Jul 4, 2010)

Look,
This will always cause a negative stir because everyone has an opinion. But I have shared many many posts all over the forum how fast my spiders grow. You want proof? Take the infamous statement

"Grammostola pulchra grows slow"  I have a 4.5" pulchra that got there from a 1" specimen. It took her 9 months to get there. If I had a male, I can say that I would have him practically mature now in the same time frame. Yet I get emails and even Pm's asking "How you get your pulchra to grow so fast???" 
I also have an infamouse slow grower...The Grammostol rosea. From .75" to 3" in 8 months.

No matter what there will be opinions. But I present facts from experience. (and my anal retentive record keeping). I have been doing it for 10 years and not about to stop. 
Give me a sling and I will stuff its face with an endless buffet. And in the long run I will be proud to say that my sling is bigger than yours and is now a Juvie or even an adult when you say I have had my X tarantula for X amount of time and it has only grew an inch.

Risks? Nope not in 10+ years....Maybe because I'm anal about everything and keep myself from making accidental mistakes? Or maybe because...... There can be miilions of "Opinions" as to what a risk can be or how to prevent them. Go ahead...Tell me that my T's are unhealthy and then look at my gorgeous pictures of beautifully colored T's. Pink T's are always less attractive than Colored T's.  

Thats my Take.

And to Crows Arachnids.... a big +1

Oh and by the way...Have pictures and molt records to prove it all.


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## Miss Bianca (Jul 4, 2010)

I hear what you're sayin' Steve and Crows also.. 
In the end maybe no cons have been caused in an obvious way and your pros are fast growth or larger mature specimens..
But to say there are _ benefits_ to powerfeeding,
thats where I cannot concur. 
Much of this discussion _is_ in fact opinions, as we seem to agree.. 

Luckily we're all discussing it as adults and not as members of my son's 4th grade class 




TalonAWD said:


> Oh and by the way...Have pictures and molt records to prove it all.


oh and Steve, I don't think anyone's doubting your Ts grow faster from being 
fed alot


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## Crows Arachnids (Jul 4, 2010)

Miss Bianca said:


> I hear what you're sayin' Steve and Crows also..
> In the end maybe no cons have been caused in an obvious way and your pros are fast growth or larger mature specimens..
> But to say there are _ benefits_ to powerfeeding,
> thats where I cannot concur.
> ...


Those 4th graders! Let me tell you! Probably the only major benefit in the encapsulative sense is that they can breed sooner and prolificate the hobby


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## Crows Arachnids (Jul 4, 2010)

TalonAWD said:


> Look,
> This will always cause a negative stir because everyone has an opinion. But I have shared many many posts all over the forum how fast my spiders grow. You want proof? Take the infamous statement
> 
> "Grammostola pulchra grows slow"  I have a 4.5" pulchra that got there from a 1" specimen. It took her 9 months to get there. If I had a male, I can say that I would have him practically mature now in the same time frame. Yet I get emails and even Pm's asking "How you get your pulchra to grow so fast???"
> ...


Alright buddy! Im sending some P. Metallica slings over to you and I want them back next week! Full grown adult females and males!!! LOL! Seriously though, you are soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo right, the infamous Grammostola species and yet the G. Pulchripes I bred out last september are about 1.5" and will continue to grow at a very fast rate  My G. Pulchra are not growing as fast as yours but I have them at about 3" and about 14 months old


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## TalonAWD (Jul 4, 2010)

Miss Bianca said:


> oh and Steve, I don't think anyone's doubting your Ts grow faster from being
> fed alot


I say this only because of my G. roseas incredible size to time frame statement. Some what to go the route of "Seeing is beleiving"


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## AmbushArachnids (Jul 4, 2010)

If you take the right precautions in housing your T. all risk can be avoided as far as them popping. I think the exo on there abdomen is a little bit stronger than people are describing here. a 2" fall for a 1" sling is really not far. especialy if the water dish has a thickened edge and most likely far away from the wall anyway. They are landing on coco fiber and or pete moss even if they do fall.

THE REAL DEBATE HERE IS WEATHER IT HAS AN EFFECT ON ITS HEALTH, OR IN OTHER WORDS DO THE FEMALES LIVE AS LONG AS CONVENTIENALLY FED TARANTULAS? AND IF NOT IS IT BECAUSE THEY AGE FASTER OR IS IT FROM COMPLICATIONS, CYSTS, BAD MOLTS, OTHER DISORDERS. 

ONLY TESTING OUT THE THEORY WITH STRICT CONTROLS WILL TELL US!


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## scar is my t (Jul 4, 2010)

Well in my opinion if you feed a T too much it can develop cancer, not move quickly, and its heart will give. Tarantulas arnt immune to the problems obesity carries. They wont refuse to eat untill it is too late. The damage would be done by then. There instincts naturally tell them to eat as much as possible just like us.


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## Crows Arachnids (Jul 4, 2010)

*What?*



scar is my t said:


> Well in my opinion if you feed a T too much it can develop cancer, not move quickly, and its heart will give. Tarantulas arnt immune to the problems obesity carries. They wont refuse to eat untill it is too late. The damage would be done by then. There instincts naturally tell them to eat as much as possible just like us.



Erm... there is just far too much disarray in this statement, I am going to dismiss it entirely and let the others feed off it.


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## Exo (Jul 4, 2010)

I feel that they can be overfed, I've seen pics of T's that literally split apart at the seams because of the pressure on their abdomen....I'm pretty sure that qualifies as overfeeding.


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## Crows Arachnids (Jul 4, 2010)

Exo said:


> I feel that they can be overfed, I've seen pics of T's that literally split apart at the seams because of the pressure on their abdomen....I'm pretty sure that qualifies as overfeeding.



With all due respect, bursting at the seams could have been caused by it falling etc. A picture is truly proof of nothing. No person has sat and seen a tarantula's abdomen burst due to nothing other than eating too much. Overfeed is such a loose term, shall we define it as having more nutritonal intake than needed to 'survive'? Then sure, we all overfeed. Your qualification stands.


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## Exo (Jul 4, 2010)

Crows Arachnids said:


> With all due respect, bursting at the seams could have been caused by it falling etc. A picture is truly proof of nothing. No person has sat and seen a tarantula's abdomen burst due to nothing other than eating too much. Overfeed is such a loose term, shall we define it as having more nutritonal intake than needed to 'survive'? Then sure, we all overfeed. Your qualification stands.


I managed to talk to one person and from what I could gather it was not from a fall, but from the T dragging it's abdomen along the ground.....because it was too fat for the spider to lift.


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## Crows Arachnids (Jul 4, 2010)

Exo said:


> I managed to talk to one person and from what I could gather it was not from a fall, but from the T dragging it's abdomen along the ground.....because it was too fat for the spider to lift.


Ok, no problem. I think I will have faith in all of those individuals that do 'powerfeed' and have not experienced issues, as opposed to one incident, thanks for your input however.


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## x Mr Awesome x (Jul 4, 2010)

scar is my t said:


> Well in my opinion if you feed a T too much it can develop cancer, not move quickly, and its heart will give. Tarantulas arnt immune to the problems obesity carries. They wont refuse to eat untill it is too late. The damage would be done by then. There instincts naturally tell them to eat as much as possible just like us.


Uhhhh... huh? Cancer? Obesity problems? You do realize we're talking about a bug, right? Being an obese human and the problems that come with it have a lot to do with the process and not so much the end result of just being too heavy. Human beings ingest all kinds of processed sugars and artificial sweeteners that don't occur in nature and as a result of imposing it on a human system there are radical systematic reactions including illness and disease. No, we're talking about t's that get fat from eating CRICKETS. You know, a natural and ideal food source. Oh and they MOLT. 500 pound people don't do that. As people we desperately attempt to make our tarantulas as relatable as possible by treated them like they function and think like us. They don't. You're comparing apples to hummers. There is no definitive evidence that can illustrate what you mean when you say "until it's too late. The damage would be done". Please please please stop spreading crap that has no truth to it. Same goes for claiming to have "seen pics of a t splitting at the seams". You do realize that someone that doesn't know any better will simply take your misguided word for it that that nonsense is true or at best taken completely out of context?


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## proper_tea (Jul 4, 2010)

Exo said:


> I managed to talk to one person and from what I could gather it was not from a fall, but from the T dragging it's abdomen along the ground.....because it was too fat for the spider to lift.


this sounds more like the cyst phenomenon that can sometimes cause a ruptured abdomen.  Don't think it's been connected in any way to power feeding.  Had this happen to a T blondi.  She hardly ate in the 6 months that I had her, yet her abdomen kept growing larger and more malformed, and eventually burst... killing her.


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## Exo (Jul 4, 2010)

proper_tea said:


> this sounds more like the cyst phenomenon that can sometimes cause a ruptured abdomen.  Don't think it's been connected in any way to power feeding.  Had this happen to a T blondi.  She hardly ate in the 6 months that I had her, yet her abdomen kept growing larger and more malformed, and eventually burst... killing her.


This T couldn't lift the abdomen off the ground, and apparently the rupture was on the bottom of the abdomen......doesn't seem like a coincidence.


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## x Mr Awesome x (Jul 4, 2010)

Exo said:


> This T couldn't lift the abdomen off the ground, and apparently the rupture was on the bottom of the abdomen......doesn't seem like a coincidence.


Okay... but how do you know it was from overfeeding and not some entirely different problem like a cyst, or a parasite, or an infection, or damage from a drop that wasn't noticed, or a..., or a..., or a...  
Seriously? They don't just pop, folks. Not from overfeeding. There are so many accounts of consistent powerfeeding with no related problems from enthusiasts with experience and breeders alike. How does that not speak volumes on the subject?


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## proper_tea (Jul 4, 2010)

Anyone have a sac coming and want to do a study?  Split the sac, powerfeed one group, and feed the other more slowly... compare long term mortality over the course of a couple years.  I think this might be more useful that us bickering all day without any hard evidence either way (everything mentioned so far has been purely anecdotal, or experiential).


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## Exo (Jul 4, 2010)

x Mr Awesome x said:


> Okay... but how do you know it was from overfeeding and not some entirely different problem like a cyst, or a parasite, or an infection, or damage from a drop that wasn't noticed, or a..., or a..., or a...
> Seriously? They don't just pop, folks. Not from overfeeding. There are so many accounts of consistent powerfeeding with no related problems from enthusiasts with experience and breeders alike. How does that not speak volumes on the subject?


Let me put this in even more simply....

The T was really fat.

The T was so fat that it couldn't lift it's abdomen off the ground.

The T therefore ended up dragging it's abdomen when it walked.

The T. was found with a rupture in the bottom of it's abdomen.

Review this sequence carefully.......Does it look like a coincidence to you?


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## Crows Arachnids (Jul 4, 2010)

proper_tea said:


> Anyone have a sac coming and want to do a study?  Split the sac, powerfeed one group, and feed the other more slowly... compare long term mortality over the course of a couple years.  I think this might be more useful that us bickering all day without any hard evidence either way (everything mentioned so far has been purely anecdotal, or experiential).



Hey bud, done and done. Scroll back up to where I mentioned the P. Miranda. Those males are all dead now, but the ones who were powerfed as opposed to the ones who weren't lived longer (after the ultimatum molt) and were bigger. Also, got tons of that going on right now. I have done this with L. Parahybana too. Powerfed 20 and the rest got fed once a week. I had one female that produced a sac and had tons of offspring when she was only 2. Now, 2.5 years later, the other females are her size 2.5 years ago. We shall see who dies first in 20 years, then I'll repost!


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## PhobeToPhile (Jul 4, 2010)

Exo said:


> Let me put this in even more simply....
> 
> The T was really fat.
> 
> ...


The problem is, Sherlock Holmes not withstanding deductive reasoning isn't always correct-look where it got the greeks in terms of the elements . What was the substrate in the cage? Did the guy observe a cyst or similair growth on the abdomen beforehand? While I am not excluding the possibility that dragging its abdomen caused the rupture, do understand I think it's important to eliminate the other causes first.


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## proper_tea (Jul 4, 2010)

Crows Arachnids said:


> Hey bud, done and done. Scroll back up to where I mentioned the P. Miranda. Those males are all dead now, but the ones who were powerfed as opposed to the ones who weren't lived longer (after the ultimatum molt) and were bigger. Also, got tons of that going on right now. I have done this with L. Parahybana too. Powerfed 20 and the rest got fed once a week. I had one female that produced a sac and had tons of offspring when she was only 2. Now, 2.5 years later, the other females are her size 2.5 years ago. We shall see who dies first in 20 years, then I'll repost!


I saw your post about the P mirandas... it just seemed like kinda a small pool to be working with if you're trying to look for adverse health effects.  What I'm talking about is like 500 slings fed 1x/week, and 500 fed 1x a day... track that over the period of a few years, and see not only which group is bigger, and breeding sooner, but which group has fewer unexplained deaths.  

But yeah... what you're doing seems like it's getting at the idea... have you seen any difference in mortality with the parahybanas?


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## x Mr Awesome x (Jul 4, 2010)

Exo said:


> Let me put this in even more simply....
> 
> The T was really fat.
> 
> ...


Tell that story to my powerfed premolt gbb that is webbing right now. Her abdomen is huge and she's waiving it in the air webbing. The t you are talking about sounds like something else was wrong with it. Why you've decided to blindly attribute the issue as a result of powerfeeding is what really doesn't make sense to me. Coincidence doesn't even come in to play.


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## Exo (Jul 4, 2010)

PhobeToPhile said:


> The problem is, Sherlock Holmes not withstanding deductive reasoning isn't always correct-look where it got the greeks in terms of the elements . What was the substrate in the cage? Did the guy observe a cyst or similair growth on the abdomen beforehand? While I am not excluding the possibility that dragging its abdomen caused the rupture, do understand I think it's important to eliminate the other causes first.


He mentioned that everthing looked normal a few days prior, so I don't think it was a cyst, and as far as the substrate goes, it looked like peat in the pic.


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## Crows Arachnids (Jul 4, 2010)

proper_tea said:


> I saw your post about the P mirandas... it just seemed like kinda a small pool to be working with if you're trying to look for adverse health effects.  What I'm talking about is like 500 slings fed 1x/week, and 500 fed 1x a day... track that over the period of a few years, and see not only which group is bigger, and breeding sooner, but which group has fewer unexplained deaths.
> 
> But yeah... what you're doing seems like it's getting at the idea... have you seen any difference in mortality with the parahybanas?


Yes, I have about 100 G. Pulchripes that are fed one time a week and about 40 that are fed several times a week. The ones intaking more food are growing faster. As far as mortality, it occurs in the same fashion. I don't have unexplained deaths in that manner, I have had less than 5 in all the time I've spent with tarantulas. No adverse health effects, I have ample reason to believe that based on my own experience. As far as the parahybana, the males are all dead (except for one REALLY STRANGE male), females are alive but none look as good, big, stocky as the original girls that were 'powerfed'. I personally don't have much interest in this realm of discussion because after 8 years of keeping tarantulas, and now having thousands and not yet seeing this issue occur with 'powerfed' specimens, I have no reason to believe those who claim that there are negative effects on "obese" tarantulas. So I'm not engaging in that experiment and documenting anything...please forgive me!


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## Exo (Jul 4, 2010)

x Mr Awesome x said:


> Tell that story to my powerfed premolt gbb that is webbing right now. Her abdomen is huge and she's waiving it in the air webbing. The t you are talking about sounds like something else was wrong with it. Why you've decided to blindly attribute the issue as a result of powerfeeding is what really doesn't make sense to me. Coincidence doesn't even come in to play.


I don't like grasping at straws, I prefer to use the most logical explanation considering the evidence.....I'm sorry if that method doesn't make sense to you.


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## Crows Arachnids (Jul 4, 2010)

Exo said:


> He mentioned that everthing looked normal a few days prior, so I don't think it was a cyst, and as far as the substrate goes, it looked like peat in the pic.


I'm sorry my friend, but you are riding a blind horse. All you have to go on is what this 'friend' told you, not much ammo for you to use, no? Once again, that is one incident as opposed to the countless non-existent obestiy issues. I will have to agree with those that suggest it was another issue that presented itself to the spider's "bahooke", I have never seen a spider so "fat" that it can't lift it's butt, I think there is far too much doubt in a tarantula's inherent abilitities, instinct, of knowing it's physical limitations on this matter.


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## proper_tea (Jul 4, 2010)

Crows Arachnids said:


> Yes, I have about 100 G. Pulchripes that are fed one time a week and about 40 that are fed several times a week. The ones intaking more food are growing faster. As far as mortality, it occurs in the same fashion. I don't have unexplained deaths in that manner, I have had less than 5 in all the time I've spent with tarantulas.


I'd say 100 spiders is a pretty good group to observe for adverse effects.  So you're saying that out of 100 spiders, you powerfed 40, and in comparison to the ones that were not powerfed, there has been no increased mortality?  Have you been doing this since they were slings?  How long have you been raising this group?  It seems like this is pretty good evidence that powerfeeding does not have adverse effects.... and it's certainly better than all of the anecdotal stuff that's been going around to support either position.


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## Crows Arachnids (Jul 4, 2010)

proper_tea said:


> I'd say 100 spiders is a pretty good group to observe for adverse effects.  So you're saying that out of 100 spiders, you powerfed 40, and in comparison to the ones that were not powerfed, there has been no increased mortality?  Have you been doing this since they were slings?  How long have you been raising this group?  It seems like this is pretty good evidence that powerfeeding does not have adverse effects.... and it's certainly better than all of the anecdotal stuff that's been going around to support either position.


No, I have 100 and then have 40. 100/40. Total of 140. No adverse effects. I have raised them since we hatched them out here in sept of 09'. The 40 are about 2 molts ahead of the 100. No mortality on either side. I'm going to start selling them though so this project will soon collapse.


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## proper_tea (Jul 4, 2010)

Crows Arachnids said:


> No, I have 100 and then have 40. 100/40. Total of 140. No adverse effects. I have raised them since we hatched them out here in sept of 09'. The 40 are about 2 molts ahead of the 100. No mortality on either side. I'm going to start selling them though so this project will soon collapse.


Is this what you normally do?  Powerfeed a smaller group to get them ready to sell faster?  Would it be safe to say that you have had many more examples like this, and have seen no increase in mortality?


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## Crows Arachnids (Jul 4, 2010)

proper_tea said:


> Is this what you normally do?  Powerfeed a smaller group to get them ready to sell faster?  Would it be safe to say that you have had many more examples like this, and have seen no increase in mortality?


I suppose you can say that, I tend to take a certain portion of my produce and grow them up so that I may offer larger, adult, sexed specimens to those who want them. Yes, safe to say, I have done this tons of times, no issues.


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## xhexdx (Jul 4, 2010)

Crows Arachnids said:


> A picture is truly proof of nothing.


So what you're saying is we should dismiss any claims coming from you or anyone, pictures or not?

You just buried yourself and everyone else stating their spiders are larger, healthier, and more colorful than spiders who aren't powerfed.  Congrats.


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## gromgrom (Jul 4, 2010)

Exo said:


> Let me put this in even more simply....
> 
> The T was really fat.
> 
> ...


hahahhahahahahahaha... nice reasoning.

thats all


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## Crows Arachnids (Jul 4, 2010)

xhexdx said:


> So what you're saying is we should dismiss any claims coming from you or anyone, pictures or not?
> 
> You just buried yourself and everyone else stating their spiders are larger, healthier, and more colorful than spiders who aren't powerfed.  Congrats.


Oh, I'm sorry Joe, I thought you, of all people, are capable of staying within context. I will not go back and reword it as you are reaching for straws. This post was as useless as your constant urging of using the search engine, they search, they find this kind of useless garbage, coming from none other, than you. Go back and read it again, I did no such thing. A picture of a ruptured abdomen is not proof that it burst due to overfeeding, for the sake of clarification, and yours.


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## proper_tea (Jul 4, 2010)

xhexdx said:


> So what you're saying is we should dismiss any claims coming from you or anyone, pictures or not?
> 
> You just buried yourself and everyone else stating their spiders are larger, healthier, and more colorful than spiders who aren't powerfed.  Congrats.



1) The person who this supposedly happened to isn't even here posting, so we can't ask them any questions about what happened... 

2)  Even based on Exo's account of what happened and the evidence that he's presenting (and clearly he is already very much against power feeding), it's not actually conclusive that this spider did actually die from power feeding.  It's just a theory.  You are asking him to take this one example, which for all intents and purposes (and in legal terms) is hearsay, and is relayed by a person who clearly already has an opinion in the matter, and accept it as truth.

3)    Then you want him to disregard years of experience he has had with literally thousands of tarantulas, simply because Exo says that he met some guy on the internet that this happened to one time.

Are you really generally in the practice of disregarding years of firsthand experience that you've had, simply because some guy you don't know, but clearly has an opinion opposite to yours, says that they met some other guy on the internet who claims to have had this one thing happen once to them, and maybe it happened to them for reasons that would completely contradict every real world experience you've had?

Personally, I hope not.


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## PhobeToPhile (Jul 4, 2010)

Proper confirmation, guys, proper confirmation. Need I remind everyone here that people have claimed that tarantula bites have killed people in Asisia, but there is no proper documentation of it (It alsways end up as having happened to a friend of a friend, or that sort of thing)? Same thing applies here. Ancedotal evidence can only go so far. CrowsArachnid at least is sharing FIRSTHAND experience.


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## proper_tea (Jul 4, 2010)

PhobeToPhile said:


> Proper confirmation, guys, proper confirmation. Need I remind everyone here that people have claimed that tarantula bites have killed people in Asisia, but there is no proper documentation of it (It alsways end up as having happened to a friend of a friend, or that sort of thing)? Same thing applies here. Ancedotal evidence can only go so far. CrowsArachnid at least is sharing FIRSTHAND experience.


...............Amen


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## Falk (Jul 4, 2010)

Is that how they feed in wild too? I dont think so.



SpyderBoy606 said:


> I mean like when you feed it way too much
> ex:when a sling gets a 12 inch butt
> 
> It's healthier too feed weekly.


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## Falk (Jul 5, 2010)

I think it depends a little on the size of prey, i powerfeed all my slings until they are big juveniles but i only give them small prey each time i feed.
I also give my _Blaptica dubia_ colony high quality food like expensive chicken food.
So i feed often but with small nutritoius prey.

I really doubt they only eat once a week in the wild tropics where the insect levels are high.

My 0.1 _Brachypelma baumgarteni_ and 0.1 _Brachypelma albiceps_ was at the size of thumbnail 16 month ago and now both of them are semi adults without a hufe opisthosoma


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## AmbushArachnids (Jul 5, 2010)

all of this is getting down right ugly.. i think this thread is going off topic. we are here to share our experiences and opinions not argue until we are blue in the face. lets all step back and take a deep breath.


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## mickey66 (Jul 5, 2010)

hermzxd45 said:


> Is it really bad to overfeed? Cause i got a g. Pulchripes thats about 3 inches female and she loves to eat sometimes she eats like 4 crickets a day. For like the past week... Everyday...


I have a B. Vagans female that is that way she's a pig! All the rest of my T's will just kill the cricket's and not eat them if they are full.


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## winwin (Jul 5, 2010)

www.philippinepetfinder.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=89511

Here's a good experiment related to feeding.


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## proper_tea (Jul 5, 2010)

huh... I've always wondered about the varied diet thing... it seems like that's a factor that most of us don't really talk to much about, because it's easier just to feed on roaches.


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## bioshock (Jul 5, 2010)

Well my opinion is you cant overfeed a tarantula. I mean common sense says that a t would know when its full because why would it keep eating unless its hungry or is a species thats got a big appetite. If their not hungry they would eaither leave it alone or just kill it and leave it. Just my opinion basically common sense.. :wall:


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## TalonAWD (Jul 5, 2010)

winwin said:


> www.philippinepetfinder.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=89511
> 
> Here's a good experiment related to feeding.


Very good post! +1


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## Versi*JP*Color (Jul 5, 2010)

OK this is bullcrap, you know what sucks everyone on this thread just made an enemy or enemies.

My intake 

a sling has just had a bunch of meals and molted,
what??? the sling still has a large butt and didn't skinny out.
REPEAT this several times as the abdomen gets bigger and bigger.

You guys say a tarantula eats as much as it can in the wild
and your recreating it.
Guess what most tarantulas don't survive long in the wild!!!!


Geez and stop trying to show the other your opinion cuz people aren't changing there mind.


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## Exo (Jul 5, 2010)

PhobeToPhile said:


> Proper confirmation, guys, proper confirmation. Need I remind everyone here that people have claimed that tarantula bites have killed people in Asisia, but there is no proper documentation of it (It alsways end up as having happened to a friend of a friend, or that sort of thing)? Same thing applies here. Ancedotal evidence can only go so far. CrowsArachnid at least is sharing FIRSTHAND experience.


That's assuming that CrowsArachnid actually has as much experience as he says he does.....think about that.


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## Crows Arachnids (Jul 5, 2010)

Exo said:


> That's assuming that CrowsArachnid actually has as much experience as he says he does.....think about that.


Yes, because I have wasted 8 years sitting on my thumbs acquiring no knowledge whatsoever, and now have decided to come on the Arachnoboards, and waste more time by coming up with with random junk, that must not be true because I didn't film or take pictures of everything, yet it makes perfect sense... I'm sorry Exo, but that is, by any means, very offensive, one of the few things that I do not put up with is those who imply that I am a liar. What you need to do is come visit me before you attempt to discredit me on a pubic forum. If nothing else, take another look at Talon or Mr. Awesome, let's hope they aren't liars too, yet they seem to make perfect sense. Also, there is an "s" at the end of the name. Lastly, I'm sorry, but this is coming from the guy who wishes to argue his opinion based on hearsay and "common sense" need I remind you of some of your posts?


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## x Mr Awesome x (Jul 5, 2010)

SpyderBoy606 said:


> OK this is bullcrap, you know what sucks everyone on this thread just made an enemy or enemies.
> 
> My intake
> 
> ...


Look SpyderBoy. This is a discussion forum. The whole purpose is to share opinions. Don't assume that contrary points of view between members is an indication that we are enemies. That simply isn't true. There are those of us who are very open minded. If someone were to show me that raising my slings in the manner that I do leads to health problems I would immediately stop. That is true! I'm not here to win a debate and most other people here are like-minded. We're here to conclude truth in study. The key to this is to not forget that it's not our ability to debate that matters but more so the truth in the topic to be concluded so that we may all learn from it. Unfortunately their are some users that don't see it like that. The boards are a stage to express their intellectual prowess and at the same time feed their ego through dissecting other's posts and intentionally misconstruing their words to smear the perception of that person's image. That is simply unfortunate. SpiderBoy, we all love our spiders and hobby. Love can be a strong thing that drives passionate views. Though these topics can sometimes be heated, don't forget the reason for that is our love for our animals. I'm happy to be a part of a collective of individuals who care enough for their beloved pets to want to learn as much as possible. Lucky us!

Back on track... 

Sometimes they will retain some 'fat' to their abdomens even post molt. I tend to feed less through the next cycle and it may or may not be necessary. It seems to balance out after a couple of molts though if you feed less as you're nearing juvenile or adulthood. Again, I only powerfeed small slings to the 3"-4" juvie size. Here's some pics:


Brachypelma albiceps

























Post molt:







After last molt:








Brachypelma vagans







Post molt:







Another molt:













And after this last molt and taken today:

*Note she has eaten 3 adult crickets by this picture*








Hope everyone enjoys my unhealthy cancer spiders!

-ben


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## proper_tea (Jul 5, 2010)

Not to get off topic... but that albiceps is beautiful... can I have it?


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## Crows Arachnids (Jul 5, 2010)

Mr. Awesome that isn't the B. Albiceps you just picked up from me is it?!! Holy cow, if you got it to molt that fast, I want the formula


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## Exo (Jul 5, 2010)

Crows Arachnids said:


> Yes, because I have wasted 8 years sitting on my thumbs acquiring no knowledge whatsoever, and now have decided to come on the Arachnoboards, and waste more time by coming up with with random junk, that must not be true because I didn't film or take pictures of everything, yet it makes perfect sense... I'm sorry Exo, but that is, by any means, very offensive, one of the few things I put up with is those who imply that I am a liar. What you need to do is come visit me before you attempt to discredit me on a pubic forum. If nothing else, take another look at Talon or Mr. Awesome, let's hope they aren't liars too, yet they seem to make perfect sense. Also, there is an "s" at the end of the name. Lastly, I'm sorry, but this is coming from the guy who wishes to argue his opinion based on hearsay and "common sense" need I remind you of some of your posts?


 Well, people don't seem to take what I say on faith, so why should I believe everything you say on faith?  You say you have 8 years of experience.....but really, how can I verify that? Just because you SAY that you have 8 years of experience doesn't neccesarilly mean that you do.....for all I know you could have 2yrs of experience.

Ah well, if everyone just wants to discount what I say and blindly follow the so called expert that's fine with me, I just figured that I'd share the things I've seen and believe on the subject......but apparently my opinion isn't popular enough to make the cut.


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## BlackCat (Jul 5, 2010)

I think this is just a personal choice, as with handling. I don't powerfeed, but if someone sees fit to do so, that is their decision. 

It isn't like you can force a spider to eat, they either take it on their own or they don't.

It seems to me that mammals are a horrible comparison point. Mammals are unable to compensate for overfeeding, where as tarantulas DO compensate by growing at a faster rate and actually using the excess food as fuel for growth as opposed to storing it as mammals do.


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## x Mr Awesome x (Jul 5, 2010)

Exo said:


> That's assuming that CrowsArachnid actually has as much experience as he says he does.....think about that.


Forum rules, Personal attacks, Bullet point #2.
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=110047



proper_tea said:


> Not to get off topic... but that albiceps is beautiful... can I have it?



You don't want it. It's all ate up with the cricket cancer.





Crows Arachnids said:


> Mr. Awesome that isn't the B. Albiceps you just picked up from me is it?!! Holy cow, if you got it to molt that fast, I want the formula



Nope. This one is my male. I'm slowing down his feeding and speeding up the female's so I can have a breeding project. As long as cancer isn't congenital I'll assume Proper Tea will want a couple


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## proper_tea (Jul 5, 2010)

Exo said:


> I just figured that I'd share the things I've seen and believe on the subject......but apparently my opinion isn't popular enough to make the cut.


It's not an issue of how popular your opinion is... it's an issue of whether you have offered sufficient and credible enough evidence to back up your opinion.  So far, all you have offered is hypothetical scenarios ("it's possible that a fatter abdomen could be more likely to rupture in a fall"), and an anecdotal example (that still wasn't conclusive) of something that happened to someone you talked to on the internet, but that you can't produce.

I have never disagreed that power feeding _could_ be unhealthy.  But with people having made this claim for literally _years_ here on these boards, you would think that someone would be able to produce some concrete evidence to support it.

On the other hand, Crows is able to produce concrete evidence that power feeding has not had any adverse effects.  Why should we not believe him if there is no credible evidence to contradict what he is saying?

If you, or anyone else, can produce some credible evidence, I think we would all be willing to listen.  We all care about our pets, and I'm sure would  alter our behavior if there was evidence that we were doing them harm.


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## Exo (Jul 5, 2010)

x Mr Awesome x said:


> Forum rules, Personal attacks, Bullet point #2.
> http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=110047


He's the one that's trying to play the "Exerience card".....he hasn't been on the forum for a really long time so how am I supossed to to know whether he tells the truth or not? He wants to discredit my point of view with the fact that he has 8yrs of experience that may or may not exist.....and it has even been suggested that some people don't even believe me...so what have I really done that is wrong?


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## proper_tea (Jul 5, 2010)

yeah... I agree... there's no violation here


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## Exo (Jul 5, 2010)

proper_tea said:


> It's not an issue of how popular your opinion is... it's an issue of whether you have offered sufficient and credible enough evidence to back up your opinion.  So far, all you have offered is hypothetical scenarios ("it's possible that a fatter abdomen could be more likely to rupture in a fall"), and an anecdotal example (that still wasn't conclusive) of something that happened to someone you talked to on the internet, but that you can't produce.
> 
> I have never disagreed that power feeding _could_ be unhealthy.  But with people having made this claim for literally _years_ here on these boards, you would think that someone would be able to produce some concrete evidence to support it.
> 
> ...


Even if I was able to get the pics and some testimony from the owner, you guys still wouldn't believe me, that's already been established by saying that "Pics don't mean anything"

This is like herding cats.....


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## proper_tea (Jul 5, 2010)

Exo said:


> This is like herding cats.....


No, it's like arguing a position you don't have enough evidence to support.

If you could produce this person, I'm sure we'd all love to ask them some questions.  However, when a T dies, it's very rarely possible to conclusively establish the cause of death (with the exception, possibly, of neglected Ts who die of dehydration).  You can theorize about it, but most of the time you never really know.  

Now you're here, telling us all that we should change the way we keep our spiders, simply because someone you can't produce, and we can't question, had a theory about why their T died.  People have all sorts of wrong information, that leads them to all sorts of wrong conclusions.  

I've never said that this T didn't die because of power feeding.  All I've said is that the evidence you are producing to support you position is not sufficient.

Go do some more research.  If you're right about this, you should be able to find better evidence.  Bring it back here, and present it to us.  It just has to be good evidence, and we'll listen to it (ex. if you want to counter Crows' experiences, go find someone who is saying "I used to power feed my slings, but they were dying more frequently, so I stopped").


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## x Mr Awesome x (Jul 5, 2010)

Okay, I'm sorry for calling foul. I've done business with Jonathan for about seven months now and can tell you he's a standup guy. I don't see a point in trying to discredit him. I've seen it in other threads too and I'm getting tired of it. Go read his seller reviews HERE if you think he's bogus. Truth be told he's worked with me time and time again for finding a specific species that I'm looking for, always willing to trade, and even co-op some breeding efforts. I have NEVER been treated so kindly buy any seller in my life. Jonathan earns my business and always delivers. I have seen pics of his shop and a multitude of sacs produced by him. He receives the same imports as other major dealers who have a web presence. He was at the San Diego expo where several credible users had the chance to meet him. The only thing he's guilty of is being lazy with a camera. I don't think he ever expected to be met with such hostility within the hobby. It's sad that I even have to post like this because someone won't give a new guy to the boards a break! Everyone has gotta start somewhere guys. With all the jerks and crooks who lurk the classifieds and steal money or deliver dead animals I don't want to lose one of the good ones. 


Sorry for the lengthy post unrelated to the topic.


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## Exo (Jul 5, 2010)

proper_tea said:


> No, it's like arguing a position you don't have enough evidence to support.
> 
> If you could produce this person, I'm sure we'd all love to ask them some questions.  However, when a T dies, it's very rarely possible to conclusively establish the cause of death (with the exception, possibly, of neglected Ts who die of dehydration).  You can theorize about it, but most of the time you never really know.
> 
> ...


 I never said anyone should change what they do, I just expressed that I do feel that a T can be overfed (That was the original topic, remember?) and described what made me think this way.....then the sky started falling.


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## Exo (Jul 5, 2010)

x Mr Awesome x said:


> Okay, I'm sorry for calling foul. I've done business with Jonathan for about seven months now and can tell you he's a standup guy. I don't see a point in trying to discredit him. I've seen it in other threads too and I'm getting tired of it. Go read his seller reviews HERE if you think he's bogus. Truth be told he's worked with me time and time again for finding a specific species that I'm looking for, always willing to trade, and even co-op some breeding efforts. I have NEVER been treated so kindly buy any seller in my life. Jonathan earns my business and always delivers. I have seen pics of his shop and a multitude of sacs produced by him. He receives the same imports as other major dealers who have a web presence. He was at the San Diego expo where several credible users had the chance to meet him. The only thing he's guilty of is being lazy with a camera. I don't think he ever expected to be met with such hostility within the hobby. It's sad that I even have to post like this because someone won't give a new guy to the boards a break! Everyone has gotta start somewhere guys. With all the jerks and crooks who lurk the classifieds and steal money or deliver dead animals I don't want to lose one of the good ones.
> 
> 
> Sorry for the lengthy post unrelated to the topic.


I never said he wasn't a good seller or breeder, did I?


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## Crows Arachnids (Jul 5, 2010)

*Wow.*



Exo said:


> He's the one that's trying to play the "Exerience card".....he hasn't been on the forum for a really long time so how am I supossed to to know whether he tells the truth or not? He wants to discredit my point of view with the fact that he has 8yrs of experience that may or may not exist.....and it has even been suggested that some people don't even believe me...so what have I really done that is wrong?


Now I'm confused. I'm being targeted by you because I'm playing an experience card? I'm sorry if I don't want to take my friend's opinion and experience with his ONE tarantula and take it to the Arachnoboards and use that as some sort of viable train of discussion. So, my personal experience means naught to you, that's fine, it doesn't bother me too much. However, your statement discredits everyone, under your standard, everyone is a potential liar unless what exactly? How does one prove they have been in the hobby for 20 years? 10 years? 2 months? I'm sorry, but I fail to see a point in your statements, to me it seems like you are trying a roundabout approach of attack because you have failed to make a standing point in this thread. Even if I have no experience, owned 1 spider, have been in this hobby for 2 months, Tea's point will indefinately stand, there is no counter, so far, against powerfeeding aside from mere speculation. Can you prove otherwise?


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## x Mr Awesome x (Jul 5, 2010)

Exo said:


> I never said he wasn't a good seller or breeder, did I?


No you just implied he was a liar. I mean, why should you believe he's really had 8 years experience.... right? Your words dude. If you're struggling to find a reason to consider him credible you might want to take a look at the post you just quoted and also the link I provided in it. Not that it will make a difference. It seems there is not amount of tangible evidence to anything that will satisfy you, only your friend's word on things. You derailed this thread by bringing Jonathan's honesty into question and frankly, I'm done trying to fix it. Please if you don't have any hard evidence to contribute to make a case for your point of view then don't hit 'reply'. 

*BACK TO THE TOPIC*


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## Crows Arachnids (Jul 5, 2010)

Falk said:


> I think it depends a little on the size of prey, i powerfeed all my slings until they are big juveniles but i only give them small prey each time i feed.
> I also give my _Blaptica dubia_ colony high quality food like expensive chicken food.
> So i feed often but with small nutritoius prey.
> 
> ...


I'm not aware of it so I have to ask, what are the components of the high-end chicken feed? I have heard, and speculated with others with yams/sweet potatoes. On that line of thought, they posess vitamin K, which I understand is the building block of cuticle (component of a tarantula's exoskeleton and dubia alike) which will allow for stronger exoskeltons as the vitamin K is passed from the dubia to the tarantula. Whether or not this would induce optimum growth, I am unsure, but I would love to know what is in the chicken feed. Have you experienced anything different when feeding your dubia and then in turn your spiders?


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## Crows Arachnids (Jul 5, 2010)

*Let it be done!*

Anyway, I am a bit irritated by this whole matter. For the sake of providing AMPLE evidence (although may not be good enough for some people) upon the hatching of my next sac, I shall take a group of them (50 or so) and powerfeed half, whereas feed the other half once a week. I will post pictures and provide updates. The next sac most likely to hatch out is the Thrixoplema Ockerti, it is almost 2 weeks old so it has a ways to go, but when the time comes (providing it is viable) let the 'experiement' begin.


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## proper_tea (Jul 5, 2010)

Crows Arachnids said:


> Anyway, I am a bit irritated by this whole matter. For the sake of providing AMPLE evidence (although may not be good enough for some people) upon the hatching of my next sac, I shall take a group of them (50 or so) and powerfeed half, whereas feed the other half once a week. I will post pictures and provide updates. The next sac most likely to hatch out is the Thrixoplema Ockerti, it is almost 2 weeks old so it has a ways to go, but when the time comes (providing it is viable) let the 'experiement' begin.


Nice... I was thinking of doing the same thing... but with the way my life is, I don't know that I have time to do it.  Glad to see that someone who really has the ability to do this experiment right will be taking it on.

Looking forward to it!


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## Exo (Jul 5, 2010)

I've given my opinion and why I have it, if nobody cares then neither do I.....funny that on AB you can't mention an experience without having to "Prove" everything to everyone, who aren't able to prove anything themselves. I'll try to see if I can find the guy and get the pics, but even if I do, people are just going to deny and discount them and go on stuffing their spiders.....because this is AB, and that's they roll.


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## Crows Arachnids (Jul 5, 2010)

proper_tea said:


> Nice... I was thinking of doing the same thing... but with the way my life is, I don't know that I have time to do it.  Glad to see that someone who really has the ability to do this experiment right will be taking it on.
> 
> Looking forward to it!


Im second thinking waiting so long. I had a P. Regalis sac hatch out recently but moved almost all of them at the San Diego show. Hopefully if I have 20 left Ill start with that to tide us over till the next sac. But I got a bit giddy (lol) because I had tons of B. Boehemi that I have had FOREVER, that I wanted to raise up. I fed one group way more than the other, and there is a big size difference, so Im going to post some pictures later on when I pick my camera up from my buddy's place. There will be no burst abdomens!!!


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## Crows Arachnids (Jul 5, 2010)

Exo said:


> I've given my opinion and why I have it, if nobody cares then neither do I.....funny that on AB you can't mention an experience without having to "Prove" everything to everyone, who aren't able to prove anything themselves. I'll try to see if I can find the guy and get the pics, but even if I do, people are just going to deny and discount them and go on stuffing their spiders.....because this is AB, and that's they roll.


I am not concerned about you proving anything, the situation alone speaks volumes on its lack of credibility. I base that on my own experiences (yes, I know I'm a liar and I have no experience) fellow breeders and hobbyists in our community. Go back and read this thread again, count how many powerfeed, then in turn count the issues they have had, feel free not to include me. Then count those who disagree with powerfeeding as a concept to engage in, and in turn count how many retorts, that are concrete and proven, they have provided. Attacking AB as a whole will get you nowhere, you say it is wrong, prove it, I'm all ears. Meaning you will have to engage in, what I am about to do, then relay the information you gather.


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## Xian (Jul 5, 2010)

Zman-

Here is a quote from Samuel Marshall's book, 'Tarantulas and other Arachnids'.

"Young tarantulas will of course eat more than old tarantulas and you can't over feed a growing spider. In fact the more you feed a young tarantula, the faster and larger it will grow. On the other hand, adults of those species with a slower metabolism can become spectacularly overweight and may be at risk of injuring themselves as they try to hold up their huge abdomens."


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## Zman181 (Jul 9, 2010)

I have 4 Mexican Red Rump Slings which I have been doing the Experiment you have suggested on.  It makes a big difference in how often and amount of prey items you feed in a week.  The one i feed once weekly which i call "Tiny" is Tiny.  The other I call "Hoover" because he/she's like a vaccum  I feed daily (eats every time) is 4 times larger  (They both look beautiful and healthy) Just that one is alot larger thatn the other.  I will post pics of the two.  They both come from the same egg sac.  I agree with  x Mr Awesome x and I also agree with Redneck.  I feel that yes the bigger they the harder they fall.  However, they know what is their limit.  And as slings I believe it's ok to offer all they can eat untill they reach that "Small Version of an Adult Molt" then you can slow down.  Prior to their Molts their abdomens resemble what I call Jlo's Jennifer Lopez trunk  When they molt they look normal.

You guys are great!  I am really happy I joined Arachnoboards.  Everyone is so helpful.

 Good Point.

I agree with x Mr Awesome x This is a forum.  "We're here to conclude truth in study."The key to this is to not forget that it's not our ability to debate that matters but more so the truth in the topic to be concluded so that we may all learn from it. Unfortunately their are some users that don't see it like that. The boards are a stage to express their intellectual prowess and at the same time feed their ego through dissecting other's posts and intentionally misconstruing their words to smear the perception of that person's image."  I quoted you  

Once again I'm grateful to be part of this board.  I have much respect for everone here.


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## sharpfang (Jul 9, 2010)

*Yes, but Only.....*

The Oprah and Rosea O'Donnell Sp's


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