# GBB vs Versicolour



## Whaagh (Oct 29, 2014)

Hi Guys

I am looking to get another T, and im kind of torn between C. CYANEOPUBESCENS and the Avic. versicolor.  I have been reading up between the two and this will be my 8th Sling i get.  What would you suggest?


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## Poec54 (Oct 29, 2014)

If you don't have experience with Avics, go for the Chromatopelma, as they're hardy and easier to care for.  A lot of people have problems with their first Avics.  The average terrestrial sling is more flexible in it's caging conditions than Avic slings.

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## BossRoss (Oct 29, 2014)

Poec54 said:


> If you don't have experience with Avics, go for the Chromatopelma, as they're hardy and easier to care for.  A lot of people have problems with their first Avics.  The average terrestrial sling is more flexible in it's caging conditions than Avic slings.


Beat me to it!! +1 for the above statement.

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## Ghost Dragon (Oct 29, 2014)

Poec54 said:


> If you don't have experience with Avics, go for the Chromatopelma, as they're hardy and easier to care for.  A lot of people have problems with their first Avics.  The average terrestrial sling is more flexible in it's caging conditions than Avic slings.


+2, agree.  The Avics are tricky, with their humidity & cross ventilation requirements, go for the GBB.  Mine, Sprite, is a feisty little thing.  Threw up a threat display at 1/2" the first time I rehoused her.

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## fuzzyavics72 (Oct 29, 2014)

Stop pushing people away from avicularia! They aren't hard to keep.

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## Whaagh (Oct 29, 2014)

I am actually thinking of getting the GBB and a pink toe as a starter, the local breeder is having a special this weekend so i want to get something nice.  I really love the webs the Avic's make and i stay in a very humid part of south africa so Humidity shouldnt be a issue.


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## scorpionchaos (Oct 29, 2014)

A.versicolor ar awesome, jumping on prey and showing IMO more vibrant colours than a GBB. Cross ventilate a 32 ounce deli container (or go to the drug store and get the largest pill vial they have and cross ventilate it aswell if you versi sling is really small). Good luck!

+1 stop pushing people away from avics because if you set them up right there very hardy!

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## Ashton (Oct 29, 2014)

fuzzyavics72 said:


> Stop pushing people away from avicularia! They aren't hard to keep.


Yeah that was my first non-G. porteri (minus a gbb I had briefly) and first sling in general. They aren't that difficult and  people need to know proper care. Don't discourage them or lead them astray from the wonders of Avicularia.

As for the OP's question: if your wallet has enough, definitely get both and be careful with the versicolor, don't over or under water it and make sure cross ventilation is present


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## Poec54 (Oct 29, 2014)

scorpionchaos said:


> +1 stop pushing people away from avics because if you set them up right there very hardy!


And that's the problem, 'setting them up right' is crucial, and often difficult for beginners to the hobby.  There's been a lot of 'My Dead Avic' threads here.  It's best if people get some experience with the easier ones first.  Once they can do those, then they'll have a better feel for when they try Avics.  It's in the best interests of the spider that they don't wind up in the hands of someone who's going into this with some experience.

---------- Post added 10-29-2014 at 09:26 AM ----------




fuzzyavics72 said:


> Stop pushing people away from avicularia! They aren't hard to keep.


Excellent!  And lets not forget all the good advice of OBT's for beginners too!

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## fuzzyavics72 (Oct 29, 2014)

I never said obts for beginners. You're clearly mistaken. What a surprise..............

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## 320TONY (Oct 29, 2014)

Gbb and versicolor were some of my first T's I ordered when I started getting more Ts. other than my pet rock rose hair I had for many years. Now I found the internet and hundreds of T's I never realized existed! Anyway my avic lived from a 1/4 inch sling I just read on them cross ventilation not to wet not bone dry room temputures 67 to 80 degrees doin good about 3 inches maybe a little bigger as for the GBB keep it dry misted a enclosure a little more as a sling but started to notice it would be on the dry side of enclosure eats like a beast always hungry unless in premolt webs like crazy! The GBB started out with awesome patterns and colors now has the adult colors and is a male grew what I would call quick its about 4inches after a little over a year. The A.versicolor started an amazing electric blue  and now is turning green and purple red is a female webs hammocks is a great eater not as friendly as it gets bigger. Both amazing T'S to watch grow from slings and watch the color transformations hard to pick one cant say i like one that much more than the other get both or buy one then get the other next, two different T's that are awesome in there own ways!


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## Whaagh (Oct 29, 2014)

The above post makes it more difficult >.< Well i have another two days to decide and will post pics of my choice here   Thanks for all the assistance guys


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## Poec54 (Oct 29, 2014)

fuzzyavics72 said:


> I never said obts for beginners. You're clearly mistaken. What a surprise..............


Did I say that you said that?


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## BobGrill (Oct 29, 2014)

This is just my personal experience,  but I've found versicolor slings to be a bit tricky to keep. They're the only species I've had multiple fatalities with. All of my other Avics I've never had problems with.


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## skar (Oct 29, 2014)

IMO Almost all t s are easy to keep including avics. Use some peat moss and lightly mist. 
Drill or poke some holes in two sides of the container above the substrate and done.
 Get what you want.


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## Poec54 (Oct 29, 2014)

skar said:


> IMO Almost all t s are easy to keep including avics. Use some peat moss and lightly mist.
> Drill or poke some holes in two sides of the container above the substrate and done.
> Get what you want.


That works for you in a dry state.  Moist peat will kill Avics for most of us.  

That's one reason why Avics aren't good for beginners, as the acceptable cage conditions are narrower than with the average terrestrial, and have to be tweaked for the climate you're in.  There's less margin for error with Avics.

Avics are recommended for beginners because most are docile and they don't race as often or as far as the long-legged arboreals.  But they're not as flexible on cage conditions as other arboreals.  The way I keep my Poecs, Lampros, Cyrios, Psalmos, Stramatos, and Heteros would kill Avics.


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## Versicolor19 (Oct 29, 2014)

Keeping a Versi is easy but do your research and ask a lot of questions. I created a thread a while ago and received a lot of help from members here. Ventilation is the most important thing to consider, once you've got the enclosure nailed, it's all cake from there. 

If you're considering one, maybe you can take a look at my thread. 

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?268114-Getting-a-A.-Versicolor


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## skar (Oct 29, 2014)

Poec54 said:


> That works for you in a dry state.  Moist peat will kill Avics for most of us.
> 
> That's one reason why Avics aren't good for beginners, as the acceptable cage conditions are narrower than with the average terrestrial, and have to be tweaked for the climate you're in.  There's less margin for error with Avics.
> 
> Avics are recommended for beginners because most are docile and they don't race as often or as far as the long-legged arboreals.  But they're not as flexible on cage conditions as other arboreals.  The way I keep my Poecs, Lampros, Cyrios, Psalmos, Stramatos, and Heteros would kill Avics.


That may be true, I may only speak from my experiences.


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## Ultum4Spiderz (Oct 29, 2014)

fuzzyavics72 said:


> Stop pushing people away from avicularia! They aren't hard to keep.


Maybe you should make a Avic care guide lol. Gbb are way hardier & probably live longer also as females.

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## Poec54 (Oct 29, 2014)

Ultum4Spiderz said:


> Maybe you should make a Avic care guide lol. Gbb are way hardier & probably live longer also as females.



Thank you.


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## Storm76 (Oct 29, 2014)

fuzzyavics72 said:


> Stop pushing people away from avicularia! They aren't hard to keep.


They aren't, I agree. It's just that people tend to overcare about slings and lose them. The amount of threads on this board alone about Avic slings lost is insanely high compared to other species. They need a tad bit more attention as slings, but common sense isn't for everyone - plus some are simply not made to make it.



Ultum4Spiderz said:


> Maybe you should make a Avic care guide lol. Gbb are way hardier & probably live longer also as females.


I have a vid on my YT channel about raising them. While not everyone, it has helped a great number of people. *shrugs* However, it's personal experience and "your mileage may vary" still applies. If someone is looking for an Avic, I say go for it - they are cute as slings and their fuzzy looks is just awesome as well as their coloration for the most part.

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## BossRoss (Oct 29, 2014)

No one is pushing any one towards or away from any thing the OP asked:



Whaagh said:


> What would you suggest?


Hence people gave their personal opinions and experiences. I have seen many more GBBs kept in poor conditions and alive than Avics. Avics are more pricey here and I would hate to spend loads of cash and have it die on me! I have had great success with my Avics but have heard and seen a lot more "strange" death Avic comments/threads. 

By all means if you have the experience and cash get the Avic. Any one will do because I love them all.

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## JahillHimself (Oct 29, 2014)

I don't have a GBB, so I would get that... seems easier to care for too.  But I don't think avics are terribly hard to maintain.  I have three that do just fine with dry sub and some misting.  I have read so many threads about how to care for avics it makes it hard to mess up...and the threads keep popping up too, so you will be constantly reminded, lol.


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## BobGrill (Oct 29, 2014)

The main cause of Avic deaths is a result of people thinking they need tons of humidity and soaking the entire enclosure while not providing enough cross ventilation.  However, I do believe that versicolors that are under 1 inch tend to be more fragile than other slings (and even other Avics). For whatever reason, They aren't as hardy when small. Once they hit a certain size, they are almost as hardy as any other species.

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## Poec54 (Oct 29, 2014)

BobGrill said:


> The main cause of Avic deaths is a result of people thinking they need tons of humidity and soaking the entire enclosure while not providing enough cross ventilation.  However, I do believe that versicolors that are under 1 inch tend to be more fragile than other slings (and even other Avics). For whatever reason, They aren't as hardy when small. Once they hit a certain size, they are almost as hardy as any other species.


+1.  With any Avics, after 2 or 3 sheds, they get much hardier.  Before then, they are delicate.

---------- Post added 10-29-2014 at 03:23 PM ----------




Storm76 said:


> They aren't, I agree. It's just that people tend to overcare about slings and lose them. The amount of threads on this board alone about Avic slings lost is insanely high compared to other species.


And that's exactly why I don't think Avics are a good thing for most beginners.  Way too many losses.  It's not fair to the spiders, to put so many in inexperienced hands, as it's a death sentence for many of them.


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## Storm76 (Oct 29, 2014)

Poec54 said:


> And that's exactly why I don't think Avics are a good thing for most beginners.  Way too many losses.  It's not fair to the spiders, to put so many in inexperienced hands, as it's a death sentence for many of them.


I'm not disputing the fact that this is indeed the case often enough. On the same note though, while it's not fair to the spiders as you say, new keepers will sooner or later lose a sling or some. I've had my share of losses like all of us made, I'm sure, but...better it's an Avic, than a more expensive T (considering the prices over there on the other side of the pond...) in my opinion. That may sound harsh, but I just think that people starting out into the arboreals with an Avic and knowing about the ventilation/humidity thing, at least prepares them for any maybe losses and it's up to them to try again in case they mess up and lose a sling. The first ones I got, I raised just fine and they're beautiful adults now.


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## timisimaginary (Oct 29, 2014)

Poec54 said:


> And that's the problem, 'setting them up right' is crucial, and often difficult for beginners to the hobby.  There's been a lot of 'My Dead Avic' threads here.  It's best if people get some experience with the easier ones first.  Once they can do those, then they'll have a better feel for when they try Avics.  It's in the best interests of the spider that they don't wind up in the hands of someone who's going into this with some experience.




he's got 7 slings already. exactly how much experience is needed before one is "qualified" for an avic? 10 T's? 20?
i only had 3 other T's before i got my first avic. avic's are not harder or more complicated, but the problem is bad advice on how to keep them that has proliferated on the internet and led to bad experiences. avics are fine as long as they're kept properly, meaning extra ventilation and not overdoing the moisture/misting. the guy's here asking questions, so he's already streets ahead of most people who buy pet spiders. 

to the OP, just read up on proper avic care, there's plenty of threads on this forum that will tell you the correct way to keep them. the basic principles are easy, follow them and you'll be fine. if you're still not sure, you can always go for a juvie who's past the more fragile sub-1" sling stage.

GBBs are great spiders too though.


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## Hydrazine (Oct 29, 2014)

BobGrill said:


> The main cause of Avic deaths is a result of people thinking they need tons of humidity and soaking the entire enclosure while not providing enough cross ventilation.  However, I do believe that versicolors that are under 1 inch tend to be more fragile than other slings (and even other Avics). For whatever reason, They aren't as hardy when small. Once they hit a certain size, they are almost as hardy as any other species.


It's the tiny vials that people keep them in. No wonder they can't get the humidity/ventilation balance right. Put it in a bigger jar, even if it's a tiny sling. It's an arboreal, it can handle heights.

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## Oumriel (Oct 29, 2014)

fuzzyavics72 said:


> Stop pushing people away from avicularia! They aren't hard to keep.


Thank you !

It's not that the slings are hard to keep, it's all the crappy care sheets and misinformation. People see the word "humidity" and then make them live like a frog.

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## BobGrill (Oct 29, 2014)

Slings aren't as tough as slings of other genera. That's a fact. Like I said they aren't tough to keep once they hit a certain size. However when small they most certainly are more fragile and less forgiving of newb mistakes. 

Also I don't think anyone is pushing people away from Avics.

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## Poec54 (Oct 29, 2014)

BobGrill said:


> Slings aren't as tough as slings of other genera. That's a fact. Like I said they aren't tough to keep once they hit a certain size. However when small they most certainly are more fragile and less forgiving of newb mistakes.
> 
> Also I don't think anyone is pushing people away from Avics.


Right, anymore than we 'push' people away from advanced species.  Work you way up with the hardier, docile ones.  there's plenty of time for you to get to the other ones.  This isn't a race.


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## Whaagh (Oct 30, 2014)

wow this thread has exploded, thanks for all the advice guys


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## ArachnoFreak666 (Oct 30, 2014)

Poec54 said:


> If you don't have experience with Avics, go for the Chromatopelma, as they're hardy and easier to care for.  A lot of people have problems with their first Avics.  The average terrestrial sling is more flexible in it's caging conditions than Avic slings.


honestly I don't think he should have a problem if he decided on a pinktoe rather than a versicolor. but lol that OBT comment had me laughing

---------- Post added 10-30-2014 at 01:01 AM ----------




Whaagh said:


> Hi Guys
> 
> I am looking to get another T, and im kind of torn between C. CYANEOPUBESCENS and the Avic. versicolor.  I have been reading up between the two and this will be my 8th Sling i get.  What would you suggest?


just go with a  GBB. in my opinion I like the colors of a GBB better for some reason and I like there personalities more too. idk what it is about the GBB that I like so much but I think you would have an easier time with it. they are really good eaters too! if you do decide on getting a avic, please consider getting a pinktoe rather than a versicolor!


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## cold blood (Oct 30, 2014)

ArachnoFreak666 said:


> honestly I don't think he should have a problem if he decided on a pinktoe rather than a versicolor. but lol that OBT comment had me laughing
> 
> ---------- Post added 10-30-2014 at 01:01 AM ----------
> 
> ...


Versicolor is but one of many different species of "pinktoe".  The term references all Avicularia sp.

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## 14pokies (Oct 30, 2014)

Avics arent hard to keep unless your the feed it and forget it type of keeper. If you are then the gbb is the way to go. Ive kept both and i think avics are better cuz u have to interact with them a little more to make sure the enclosure isnt drying out. Both are heavy webbers gbbs more than avics  so youll see them about the same.you cant beat the price of versys these day sling r runnin as low as 15 bucks!

---------- Post added 10-30-2014 at 02:20 AM ----------

Avics arent hard to keep unless your the feed it and forget it type of keeper. If you are then the gbb is the way to go. Ive kept both and i think avics are better cuz u have to interact with them a little more to make sure the enclosure isnt drying out. Both are heavy webbers gbbs more than avics  so youll see them about the same.you cant beat the price of versys these day sling r runnin as low as 15 bucks!


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## Whaagh (Oct 30, 2014)

Well i never forget to feed my T's i love to watch then hunt their prey.  Especially my H. Gigas.  Again thanks for all the input guys really appreciate it.


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## awiec (Oct 30, 2014)

I would suggest getting an avic sling that is 1 inch+ (or 2.5 cm for you) as they seem to be a little more delicate at smaller sizes. I got a 1/2 inch versi as my first T but I had some experience caring for true spiders so I was less apprehensive about caring for it and it is a happy 2.5 inch Juvie now. But I did try to raise a 1/2 inch A.velutina recently and for whatever reason I could not get it to eat or get comfortable, it eventually died so I will try again next year with a slightly larger one.

If you get a GBB then you can get one at any size as these guys are tough as nails, I have a 3 inch one myself who is an excellent webber, kinda like a terrestrial version of an avic, and is a stunner. It grows as fast or faster than an avic so you won't be waiting long for it to grow up. They also have some spunk to them too, just got a threat pose from mine recently, he thought I was going to take his food away but retreated pretty quick.


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## klawfran3 (Oct 30, 2014)

Hydrazine said:


> It's the tiny vials that people keep them in. No wonder they can't get the humidity/ventilation balance right. Put it in a bigger jar, even if it's a tiny sling. It's an arboreal, it can handle heights.


Is not one going to mention this? This is how I've kept my avics and it works wonderfully. It's like fishkeeping in that bigger enclosures are more stable and easier to maintain. Give your avic slings a bigger home, don't stuff them in a vial like I have seen so often. IME Avics fare much better when they have more space. It makes everything so much easier.


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## awiec (Oct 30, 2014)

klawfran3 said:


> Is not one going to mention this? This is how I've kept my avics and it works wonderfully. It's like fishkeeping in that bigger enclosures are more stable and easier to maintain. Give your avic slings a bigger home, don't stuff them in a vial like I have seen so often. IME Avics fare much better when they have more space. It makes everything so much easier.


As soon as I got my avic sling it got a 32 oz cup, granted I filled about 1/3 of it with sub but it took to the large container readily and webbed it all up pretty quick. As long as there is sufficient webbing avics are pretty comfy in most cages. I generally tong fed it roaches as they are easy to place on the web complex. Though it does love the crickets as it zips down from the web and grabs them.


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## timisimaginary (Oct 30, 2014)

awiec said:


> As soon as I got my avic sling it got a 32 oz cup, granted I filled about 1/3 of it with sub but it took to the large container readily and webbed it all up pretty quick. As long as there is sufficient webbing avics are pretty comfy in most cages. I generally tong fed it roaches as they are easy to place on the web complex. Though it does love the crickets as it zips down from the web and grabs them.


agreed with this too, i keep both my avics in larger deli cups. height is only a concern for the big bodied terrestrials, avics aren't going to die from a fall.
i also feed them pre-killed prey when they're small, and just place it on their web so it's easy for them to find, so there's no worries about them not finding their food.


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## awiec (Oct 30, 2014)

timisimaginary said:


> agreed with this too, i keep both my avics in larger deli cups. height is only a concern for the big bodied terrestrials, avics aren't going to die from a fall.
> i also feed them pre-killed prey when they're small, and just place it on their web so it's easy for them to find, so there's no worries about them not finding their food.


Mine refused pre-killed but roaches act like they are dead anyway so close enough. It knows what I'm giving it as it non-chalantly waltzs over and grabs the roach, crickets get pounced upon and my GBB just tackles everything. Both are very interested in the feeding department.


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## scorpionchaos (Oct 30, 2014)

Ive always wondered why we don't have an avic cage for dummies thread sticky.... We should get on that!


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## awiec (Oct 30, 2014)

scorpionchaos said:


> Ive always wondered why we don't have an avic cage for dummies thread sticky.... We should get on that!


Really cause it's one of those things that differ in each area. Yes ventilation is important but how much water should provide is different in each region. I have to keep an eye on the water levels and humidity while people in Florida might not have to worry as much, I also have to change my routine with the seasons too.

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## Storm76 (Oct 30, 2014)

awiec said:


> Really cause it's one of those things that differ in each area. Yes ventilation is important but how much water should provide is different in each region. I have to keep an eye on the water levels and humidity while people in Florida might not have to worry as much, I also have to change my routine with the seasons too.


Meaning: Your mileage may vary!  As it has been said before so many times, these need a tad bit more attention, but are rewarding to raise and keep. I love my Avics for their looks and generally good-natured behavior.

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## VenomousMe (Oct 30, 2014)

BobGrill said:


> Slings aren't as tough as slings of other genera. That's a fact. Like I said they aren't tough to keep once they hit a certain size. However when small they most certainly are more fragile and less forgiving of newb mistakes.
> 
> Also I don't think anyone is pushing people away from Avics.


No, Bob, that's strictly reserved for OBT's.


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## BobGrill (Oct 30, 2014)

VenomousMe said:


> No, Bob, that's strictly reserved for OBT's.


So you're at it again huh?


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## Whaagh (Oct 31, 2014)

Sorry i might still be a bit of a noob but what is OBT's?


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## BossRoss (Oct 31, 2014)

Whaagh said:


> Sorry i might still be a bit of a noob but what is OBT's?


OBTs=Orange Baboon Tarantulas


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## Whaagh (Oct 31, 2014)

woooooow they are beautiful


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## Storm76 (Oct 31, 2014)

BossRoss said:


> OBTs=Orange Baboon Tarantulas


Orange Bitey Thing ...I still think it funny as we don't have any nickname like that for them over here


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## BobGrill (Oct 31, 2014)

Whaagh said:


> woooooow they are beautiful


Not that I'm making any assumptions here, but I'd suggest admiring them from a picture in a book or on the internet. I'd highly advise against getting one if you're new to the hobby.


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## awiec (Oct 31, 2014)

Whaagh said:


> woooooow they are beautiful


Sure they are, but the pain you'll be in after their fangs get intimate with you will make you think again. General rule of thumb for animals, if it's bright looking, it's going to mess you up. Avics and GBBs are plenty colorful and most orange tarantulas are New World so you can have the orange but without the massive pain.


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## gobey (Oct 31, 2014)

Whaagh said:


> woooooow they are beautiful


And they are hell to raise as slings.

At least mine are. I've never regretted buying any Ts.... except maybe these 2. They're from Mordor.

I also have a 4" adult. She's actually much easier to work with because she doesn't spaz out all the time. BUT that doesn't mean she's to be taken lightly. They aren't the most potent OW tarantulas, but they are pretty damn potent nonetheless. And they are as a general rule of thumb quicker to act defensive than most tarantulas with less provocation. 

Hence OBT also meaning Orange Bitey Thing


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## Whaagh (Oct 31, 2014)

Honestly im still really getting into the hobby ive always had a fascination with spiders and always said its something i'd wanted to own.  I will get one maybe in a couple of years im also looking at breeding sometime


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## awiec (Oct 31, 2014)

Whaagh said:


> Honestly im still really getting into the hobby ive always had a fascination with spiders and always said its something i'd wanted to own.  I will get one maybe in a couple of years im also looking at breeding sometime


Trust me the spiders aren't going anywhere, OBTs are bred all the time, so just get yourself a more calmer species and enjoy it as it grows with you. Some people are ready for OW faster than others but everyone has to start somewhere.

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## Whaagh (Oct 31, 2014)

awiec said:


> Trust me the spiders aren't going anywhere, OBTs are bred all the time, so just get yourself a more calmer species and enjoy it as it grows with you. Some people are ready for OW faster than others but everyone has to start somewhere.


The problem isnt getting used to it really, its more that my current land lord might not like the idea of having loads of spiders im getting the GBB tomorrow and probably the Versi as well.  I still need to learn the sexing as well.  Really like the community though, helping out when asked

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## awiec (Oct 31, 2014)

Whaagh said:


> The problem isnt getting used to it really, its more that my current land lord might not like the idea of having loads of spiders im getting the GBB tomorrow and probably the Versi as well.  I still need to learn the sexing as well.  Really like the community though, helping out when asked


Well I don't think the land lord can complain about one or two spiders, honestly the quickest way to get to a pokie is probably GBB+Versi-->Psalmo or Taps---> Maybe something like C.darlingi/terrestrial OW-->Pokie. But really because you are limited in spider space this will allow you to get intimate and get to know your species very well as they grow. Really you could go from psamlo to pokie if you really want to but why rush it? These are pets first and foremost, not living stamp collections, enjoy the ride as you become more experienced.


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## viper69 (Nov 1, 2014)

fuzzyavics72 said:


> Stop pushing people away from avicularia! They aren't hard to keep.


That's why we see TONS of dead Avic sling threads and "none" on GBBs. Quit snorting Avic setae haha. Avics are not as easy as GBBs to raise. GBBs are like the goldfish of the T world extremely forgiving to poor husbandry practices.

---------- Post added 11-01-2014 at 10:59 AM ----------




awiec said:


> Well I don't think the land lord can complain about one or two spiders, honestly the quickest way to get to a pokie is probably GBB+Versi-->Psalmo or Taps---> Maybe something like C.darlingi/terrestrial OW-->Pokie. But really because you are limited in spider space this will allow you to get intimate and get to know your species very well as they grow. Really you could go from psamlo to pokie if you really want to but why rush it? These are pets first and foremost, not living stamp collections, enjoy the ride as you become more experienced.


I disagree on your path. A OW terrestrial IMO does not prepare one for an arboreal OW T. Arboreals are far far more nimble than terrestrials. After Psalmos right to Pokieville.

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## klawfran3 (Nov 1, 2014)

viper69 said:


> That's why we see TONS of dead Avic sling threads and "none" on GBBs. Quit snorting Avic setae haha. Avics are not as easy as GBBs to raise. GBBs are like the goldfish of the T world extremely forgiving to poor husbandry practices.
> 
> ---------- Post added 11-01-2014 at 10:59 AM ----------
> 
> ...


I think it should go psalmo-->tapi--->pokie

tapies are probably one of the fastest arboreals in exastence, so if you can deal with one, you can deal with a pokie.


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## Poec54 (Nov 1, 2014)

viper69 said:


> That's why we see TONS of dead Avic sling threads and "none" on GBBs. Quit snorting Avic setae haha. Avics are not as easy as GBBs to raise. GBBs are like the goldfish of the T world extremely forgiving to poor husbandry practices


Avics have the lead on 'my dead spider' threads by far, over any other genus or species.  It's not fair to the spiders to keeping directing beginners to them.  As far as temperament and speed, yes they're better-suited for beginners than the other arboreals; problem is their lower tolerance for various care/conditions.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Mike41793 (Nov 1, 2014)

I'd recommend GBB just cause I like them better. Here is a pic of a pretty GBB

Reactions: Like 2


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## awiec (Nov 2, 2014)

viper69 said:


> That's why we see TONS of dead Avic sling threads and "none" on GBBs. Quit snorting Avic setae haha. Avics are not as easy as GBBs to raise. GBBs are like the goldfish of the T world extremely forgiving to poor husbandry practices.
> 
> ---------- Post added 11-01-2014 at 10:59 AM ----------
> 
> ...


Hence why I said a maybe step and said it could be skipped. I went from taps to pokies but I still got some terrestrial OW just cause I like them.


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## viper69 (Nov 2, 2014)

awiec said:


> Hence why I said a maybe step and said it could be skipped. I went from taps to pokies but I still got some terrestrial OW just cause I like them.


I actually did the same thing, I like the horned baboons! Now I have an I mira.


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## awiec (Nov 2, 2014)

viper69 said:


> I actually did the same thing, I like the horned baboons! Now I have an I mira.


Haven't moved to I.mira yet but my C.darlingi and M.balfouri fulfill my little baboon needs ( the P.muticus is never going to grow).

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## gobey (Nov 2, 2014)

Why not just skip the sling stage? I guess part of the appeal of the versi is the bright blue babies... But I also think versi's are ugly... Yeah yeah I know, blasphemous. The contrast doesn't do it for me.

But Avics aren't the most pricey T. I got my A. avic at about 3.5" at $25 pet shop price. I've seen 4" A. metallica for $50. Not bad for an adult T. 

So what would say... A 1 or 2" versi really cost? Skip the fragile SADS prone stage and still enjoy a fun beginner friendly arboreal.



I also think GBBs are ugly....

I'm gonna walk away now...


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## cold blood (Nov 2, 2014)

gobey said:


> Why not just skip the sling stage? I guess part of the appeal of the versi is the bright blue babies... But I also think versi's are ugly... Yeah yeah I know, blasphemous. The contrast doesn't do it for me.
> 
> But Avics aren't the most pricey T. I got my A. avic at about 3.5" at $25 pet shop price. I've seen 4" A. metallica for $50. Not bad for an adult T.
> 
> ...


Whaaa...just keep walkin' buddy! :laugh:


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## klawfran3 (Nov 2, 2014)

gobey said:


> Why not just skip the sling stage? I guess part of the appeal of the versi is the bright blue babies... But I also think versi's are ugly... Yeah yeah I know, blasphemous. The contrast doesn't do it for me.
> 
> But Avics aren't the most pricey T. I got my A. avic at about 3.5" at $25 pet shop price. I've seen 4" A. metallica for $50. Not bad for an adult T.
> 
> ...


"sometimes I like to throw a grenade and then run away"

I agree though. I used to think GBB's weren't too good looking until I got one. I saw how their legs are so metallic and it really makes me love 'em.


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## gobey (Nov 2, 2014)

Idk it's just the color contrast. It doesn't do it for me. It's the same with both GBBs and Versis. I love the vibrant green/blues. But the orange and red abdomens just don't fit for my tatse.

I see why others enjoy it. But I'd rather go for something like a P. metallica for a blue T. And a B. emilia for a vibrant orange. Too bad they're both stupid expensive lol.

I'm also just not too Avic crazy. I like my little guy. I'm glad I got him. But he's not my favorite. Maybe whenhe passes I'll replace him with another. A. metallicas have a cool sheen to them and I've heard they're supposed to be just as mellow as A. avics.

But hey somebody's gotta adopt all the versis and GBBs... So it might as well be you guys.


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## Whaagh (Nov 2, 2014)

Well in the end i got both, im actually glad i did the versi is so adorable when small.  The breeder i got them from gave me a care sheet with and made some suggestions for the avic.  Luckily i live in a pretty humid area so humidity isnt a problem.  I love the webbing of the GBB

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## cold blood (Nov 3, 2014)

Whaagh said:


> Well in the end i got both, im actually glad i did the versi is so adorable when small.  The breeder i got them from gave me a care sheet with and made some suggestions for the avic.  Luckily i live in a pretty humid area so humidity isnt a problem.  I love the webbing of the GBB


I'd be interested to see the care sheets they gave you...only because there are so many poor ones out there.

Congrats on the slings!


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## Whaagh (Nov 3, 2014)

cold blood said:


> I'd be interested to see the care sheets they gave you...only because there are so many poor ones out there.
> 
> Congrats on the slings!


Well they got it from a website, "mike's basic tarantula".  He has a few caresheets for different slings.


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## awiec (Nov 3, 2014)

Whaagh said:


> Well they got it from a website, "mike's basic tarantula".  He has a few caresheets for different slings.


Mike is pretty cool but he give a very "general" sense of how to care for slings (he even said so himself). Don't stress about your humidity, just provide a large water bowl/cap for the versi with some ventilation and it will be fine. My GBB really hates water so I only give him water in a bowl and sometimes a little extra when I think he's going to molt.


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## Whaagh (Nov 4, 2014)

Awesome thanks.  My versi has already made a nice little nest at the top of her holder and my GBB has completely covered his enclosure with web.  The starting holder i got for my Versi already has very good ventilation, so i should be settled for a while.  Thanks for the help


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## awiec (Nov 4, 2014)

Whaagh said:


> Awesome thanks.  My versi has already made a nice little nest at the top of her holder and my GBB has completely covered his enclosure with web.  The starting holder i got for my Versi already has very good ventilation, so i should be settled for a while.  Thanks for the help


That's good new, the faster an avic makes a web the better off it is. When you give it water you want to put a few drops of water on the web as it will drink from there, the water cap is just for humidity. Also they will rub hairs on their webbing so be careful if you touch it.

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## Poec54 (Nov 4, 2014)

awiec said:


> they will rub hairs on their webbing so be careful if you touch it.


And I thought they were trying to cuddle.


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## Storm76 (Nov 5, 2014)

Poec54 said:


> And I thought they were trying to cuddle.


Wait - they aren't?!


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## Whaagh (Nov 17, 2014)

I want to ask a quick question, i know its a bit off the thread topic.  I have gotten both the Green Bottle Blue and the Avic. Versicolour as previously stated.  My Green bottle blue actually molted today and im very excited but my Versicolour isnt really doing much.  When i first got it, it was walking everywhere and it cast a nice web at the top of its holder i fed it and it ate.  Unfortunately the web had some left over food in it and i couldnt get it out properly without breaking the webbing.  Now its sitting on the ground of its holder or on one of the fake plants and im afraid it might not be going to well.  Any advice on what could be done to help it.  I live in a very humid part of south africa so i dont think humidity is a problem or is it just normal for the species to do this?


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## Storm76 (Nov 17, 2014)

Whaagh said:


> I want to ask a quick question, i know its a bit off the thread topic.  I have gotten both the Green Bottle Blue and the Avic. Versicolour as previously stated.  My Green bottle blue actually molted today and im very excited but my Versicolour isnt really doing much.  When i first got it, it was walking everywhere and it cast a nice web at the top of its holder i fed it and it ate.  Unfortunately the web had some left over food in it and i couldnt get it out properly without breaking the webbing.  Now its sitting on the ground of its holder or on one of the fake plants and im afraid it might not be going to well.  Any advice on what could be done to help it.  I live in a very humid part of south africa so i dont think humidity is a problem or is it just normal for the species to do this?


An Avic sitting on the ground is usually not a good sign. The only times it can happen, is when they slide down the side being in premolt and not having the grip to climb back up. Is you enclosure sufficiently ventilated? Some pics might help.

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## Poec54 (Nov 17, 2014)

Whaagh said:


> my Versicolour isnt really doing much.  When i first got it, it was walking everywhere and it cast a nice web at the top of its holder i fed it and it ate.  Unfortunately the web had some left over food in it and i couldnt get it out properly without breaking the webbing.  Now its sitting on the ground of its holder or on one of the fake plants and im afraid it might not be going to well.  Any advice on what could be done to help it.  I live in a very humid part of south africa so i dont think humidity is a problem or is it just normal for the species to do this?


Avics need dry substrate and cross ventilation.  Humidity comes from water bowl.  Don't mist.  Moist cages kill Avics.


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## Whaagh (Nov 17, 2014)

I will post some pictures later this afternoon, this morning i had a look and she was sitting underneath the one plants leaf when i take her out (on my hand over something soft) she tends to walk around quite actively but the moment she is back in the container she is very placid.  She has made a few small webbing but nothing compared to her first web she made.  And she has eating before i try not to move the holder to much as not to disturb her but im quite worried so i tend to look in on her every now and then

---------- Post added 11-17-2014 at 01:00 PM ----------




Poec54 said:


> Avics need dry substrate and cross ventilation.  Humidity comes from water bowl.  Don't mist.  Moist cages kill Avics.


The substrate i have for the avic is dry and i dont mist her enclousure as its to small, i have put a small lid in there with a bit of water for humidity build up and the enclosure i got with the avic does have cross ventilation.  Before i bought her i did loads of research to make sure i dont make a mistake and she dies.  That is why im so worried, could she possibly be in pre-molt?


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## Whaagh (Nov 17, 2014)

As stated before here are the photo's to the enclosure for the A. Versicolour:

There are holes on each side of the holder so there should be sufficient air flow


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## Poec54 (Nov 17, 2014)

Whaagh said:


> the enclosure for the A. Versicolour:  There are holes on each side of the holder so there should be sufficient air flow



There's your problem.  Not enough ventilation.  It should have two or three rings of airholes on the upper sides, with 15-20 holes per ring.  I don't see a water bowl.  Are you misting?  If so, you've probably got moisture accumulating in the substrate, I'd change it out.  I bet that cage is too moist and stuffy, that's why your spider is going downhill.  This needs to be addressed quickly.  

I've put versicolor slings in deli cups and sometimes they've started spinning within minutes.  Yours should have a silk sheet and be spending it's time at the top.  They're hardy, but only within a narrow range of conditions.

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## Whaagh (Nov 17, 2014)

I will sort out the ventilation asap, i do have a small cap with water i put in so i dont mist at all.  When i first got it after about 2/3 days it spin a beautiful web bit with feeding it got very nasty so i cleaned it and broke it in the process and since then it hasnt spun one again.


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## Martin1975 (Nov 17, 2014)

Hello
I have read the advice so far,I have the following avic types
- Avicularia Versi color multiple
- Avicularia Purpurea multiple
- Avicularia Avicularia multiple
- Avicularia Laeta 
- Avicularia Bicegoi multiple
- Avicularia Azura Klaasi multiple 
- Avicularia Diversipes
- Avicularia Sp. Peru purple multiple
All these mentioned have been raised no water bowls multiple cross ventilation,only a moist substrate and no losses nor bad molts no Avic sudden death syndrome etc. They also all web up to the extreme,I have also changed the way I have done cages and has worked well. My style employs that the container is turned upside down,thus the specimen is never bothered with cage maintenance nor feeding etc. I will post photos of these setups, not as stunning as my other cages but work with avics in the end the T is more important than fashion haha. I would like to add,this has worked for me and a few others trying this but in no means a rule just my experience.


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## Martin1975 (Nov 17, 2014)

Here are some photos


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## Ultum4Spiderz (Nov 17, 2014)

Really unique I keep my pretzel jars flipped the opposite side of yours, big side down lid on top. Great pics ~ both ways work for aboreals.:biggrin: . your way is better for webbing though mine just web near sub.


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## Martin1975 (Nov 17, 2014)

Ultum4Spiderz said:


> Really unique I keep my pretzel jars flipped the opposite side of yours, big side down lid on top. Great pics ~ both ways work for aboreals.[emoji3]


Haha nice,both ways work but with mine they can't web up the lid since its at the bottom I can change substrate never ever bothering the T and actually taking it away and the T wouldn't know the difference. I was looking at a method that never disturbs the T,this has been by far my best setup and I have tried them all.


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## Martin1975 (Nov 17, 2014)

This Avicularia actually just came out to hunt,I just leave the prey at the bottom and it works.


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## Ultum4Spiderz (Nov 17, 2014)

Martin1975 said:


> Haha nice,both ways work but with mine they can't web up the lid since its at the bottom I can change substrate never ever bothering the T and actually taking it away and the T wouldn't know the difference. I was looking at a method that never disturbs the T,this has been by far my best setup and I have tried them all.


Ill try it sometime smart idea, very cool. Might not work for my Pokies they sit by substrate a lot near there bark. Except my big girl P ornata 7" right now. Psalms & Avics should work superb.


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## Martin1975 (Nov 18, 2014)

Ultum4Spiderz said:


> Ill try it sometime smart idea, very cool. Might not work for my Pokies they sit by substrate a lot.


Funny enough,you can check out a post I did where I tested this with P.Metallica's and they did the same. The post was on another forum,but the test shows the result where most poecilotheria would burrow mine made nests at the top. You will also see,all my plants are not at the bottom but attached to the top so not even the fake plant is ever disturbed I had a theory which I tested in multiple avics and it worked for me.


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## Ultum4Spiderz (Nov 18, 2014)

Martin1975 said:


> Funny enough,you can check out a post I did where I tested this with P.Metallica's and they did the same. The post was on another forum,but the test shows the result where most poecilotheria would burrow mine made nests at the top.


Yeah U suspected this, Aboreals are smart Ts they also have great eyesight I hand fed one P miranda juvie once(don't do this bad idea I Lost feeding tongs), like Jumping spider eyesight. I think they build web wherever it wont be destroyed when being fed..


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## Martin1975 (Nov 18, 2014)

Ultum4Spiderz said:


> Yeah U suspected this, Aboreals are smart Ts they also have great eyesight I hand fed one P miranda juvie once, like Jumping spider eyesight. I think they build web wherever it wont be destroyed when being fed..


My P.regalis metallica fasciata striata subfusca smithi,all of them are very sensitive to surroundings which makes you believe how could these have bad eyesight haha.


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## Ultum4Spiderz (Nov 18, 2014)

My P ornata gave threat posture just when i looked at cage. Was 2-3 feet away from cage.


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## Martin1975 (Nov 18, 2014)

Ultum4Spiderz said:


> My P ornata gave threat posture just when i looked at cage. Was 2-3 feet away from cage.


Avicularia are awesome for their docile nature,well except for my evil laeta haha. Where pokies are beautiful, and will not be boring at all. I always suggest trying an avic,and when more reassured go for pokies.


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## Ultum4Spiderz (Nov 18, 2014)

Martin1975 said:


> Avicularia are awesome for their docile nature,well except for my evil laeta haha. Where pokies are beautiful, and will not be boring at all. I always suggest trying an avic,and when more reassured go for pokies.


Right now I got some Avic species from petstore I gave up on Avics when my Healthy A versi had a wet molt. Now I get old worlder's or Large terrestrials , Lasiodoras, A genic ..etc.

Mine is a female of some sort, A Avic/ metallica


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## Martin1975 (Nov 18, 2014)

Ultum4Spiderz said:


> Right now I got some Avic species from petstore I gave up on Avics when my Healthy A versi had a wet molt. Now I get old worlder's or Large terrestrials , Lasiodoras, A genic ..etc.


It is sad how people avoid avics since most will say how hard they are to care for,but using my enclosures they have become my easiest specimens to care for.


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## Ultum4Spiderz (Nov 18, 2014)

Martin1975 said:


> It is sad how people avoid avics since most will say how hard they are to care for,but using my enclosures they have become my easiest specimens to care for.


Ill get some if I see slings cheap enough, I just really liked my A versi so she was like my ZILLA I quit that species for a while. Theraphosa & Avics sure I can care for Im waiting til I can afford to buy them easier. Theraphosa are $100+ ea as slings way over my budget. My A versi was my favorite T.


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## Martin1975 (Nov 18, 2014)

Ultum4Spiderz said:


> Ill get some if I see slings cheap enough, I just really liked my A versi so she was like my ZILLA I quit that species for a while. Theraphosa & Avics sure I can care for Im waiting til I can afford to buy them easier. Theraphosa are $100+ ea as slings way over my budget. My A versi was my favorite T.


You guys are so lucky overseas,we can't really find theraposa here and those advertised as blondi are usually stirmi and even then when one phones or wants to order even the stirmis are sold out. I will hopefully one day have a theraposa in my collection,since that genus eludes me haha.


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## Ultum4Spiderz (Nov 18, 2014)

Martin1975 said:


> You guys are so lucky overseas,we can't really find theraposa here and those advertised as blondi are usually stirmi and even then when one phones or wants to order even the stirmis are sold out. I will hopefully one day have a theraposa in my collection,since that genus eludes me haha.


I had a stirmi check my thread I Miss this spider http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?222790-CYST-Severity, :cry: A lot more than its original owner.

Been 3 years since I had a Goliath birdeater. Still no Spider that is as big as that 8"-9 stirmi.


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## Martin1975 (Nov 18, 2014)

Ultum4Spiderz said:


> I had a stirmi check my thread http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?222790-CYST-SeverityI Miss this spider , :cry: A lot more than its original owner.


That's so sad,is it a general thing with them ? Or in wild caught specimens ? Or in all of them ? Is there a cause for this ? Sorry for all the questions,I remember when Robc lost zilla due to a bad molt.


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## Ultum4Spiderz (Nov 18, 2014)

Martin1975 said:


> That's so sad,is it a general thing with them ? Or in wild caught specimens ? Or in all of them ? Is there a cause for this ? Sorry for all the questions,I remember when Robc lost zilla due to a bad molt.


Not sure, rob C was still active back then seems he also gave up on this Genus. Loss of my T might have effected made him remember his loss of zilla.  This is the Genus with the most health problems someone needs to study its native habitat sadly I am could never afford to go there. RIck west probably has, he must had a generous sponsor.

He had good videos, he really could take a spider bite .I do not hold Ts except breeding/rehouse . He held Zilla a few times she was huge.  I hand fed a Pokie a few times, no tongs so that is brave.

My Lp has greatly outlived that bigger goliath, despite her being small only 6.5"-7. Smaller body size might be an advantage in captivity for molting. Maybe Goliath should burrow in captivity for higher survival rate , like G rosea why wont they dig?? In captivity, G rosea digs 2 foot burrows in chilli.


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## Martin1975 (Nov 18, 2014)

Ultum4Spiderz said:


> Not sure, rob C was still active back then seems he also gave up on this Genus. Loss of my T might have effected made him remember his loss of zilla.  This is the Genus with the most health problems someone needs to study its native habitat sadly I am could never afford to go there. RIck west probably has, he must had a generous sponsor.
> 
> He had good videos, he really could take a spider bite I am not as brave as him he  held a  11" Goliath.
> 
> My Lp has greatly outlived that bigger goliath, despite her being small only 6.5"-7. Smaller body size might be an advantage in captivity for molting.


Zilla was a huge loss for rob,I miss his videos. I now watch jon3800 daniel Oakley and a few others,but miss robs videos a lot. I have watched some of rick Wests videos as well,haven't seen those on the theraposas will search a bit. As for your lasiodora,my female is around the 8 inch mark not even close to a theraposa but she is still young. Will love to see if she grows more,and maybe put a few myths to rest. She has never had an issue with molting,so I must say in my opinion needs minimal care and is one tough T.


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## Ultum4Spiderz (Nov 18, 2014)

yeah I got no camcorder, I should get a cheap one when 4k gets a little cheaper, I do feed off a lot of roaches .I got 8 more baby Lps one better be near maxed size . wish I had  a new goliath, but I quit buying Ts til this year for 2 years, so M'Males thinned out collection a lot.
L klugi I hope to be a new favorite even if she only reaches 8-9" LS.


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## Martin1975 (Nov 18, 2014)

Ultum4Spiderz said:


> yeah I got no camcorder, I should get a cheap one when 4k gets a little cheaper, I do feed off a lot of roaches .I got 8 more baby Lps one better be near maxed size . wish I had  a new goliath, but I quit buying Ts til this year for 2 years, so M'Males thinned out collection a lot.
> L klugi I hope to be a new favorite even if she only reaches 8-9" LS.


The size of lasiodora is up for debate,enclosure size food may play into growth will see with my Parahybana Klugi and Difficilis.


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## Ultum4Spiderz (Nov 18, 2014)

Martin1975 said:


> The size of lasiodora is up for debate,enclosure size food may play into growth will see with my Parahybana Klugi and Difficilis.


yeah this is why I plan on all my Ts having a endless supply of dubia roaches, as long as they arent overly obese , or refusing food. Maybe Ts need more mice, no one will challenge old info on feeding mice. MY a Brock is larger than my LP, she ate at-least 2 hopper mice before.


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## Martin1975 (Nov 18, 2014)

Ultum4Spiderz said:


> yeah this is why I plan on all my Ts having a endless supply of dubia roaches, as long as they arent overly obese , or refusing food.


Another fun topic,if T's can actually become overweight. Why I believe it is very debatable,if T's could be overweight they'd change their eating habits to accommodate their growing appetite. I can witness with a lot of T's,they have their limit when coming to eating and will cease at a certain point. If we look at obese or overweight in the general sense,animals or humans will tend to keep on eating to sustain the bodyweight and eat even more in some situations. 

Humans and animals will eat as they grow,coming to a certain point where growth is no more and the body volume in fat content will only change. Tarantulas will eat and grow,changing their exoskeleton as need be If we believe Tarantulas could over eat that means at some point growth will cease that T will eat until exploding since different than humans their skeletal system is on the outside. 

Where other animals and humans add weight to the outside of their bodies since the skeletal system is within,T's don't have this luxury thus the if fill up internally and that inner limit is limited by their genetic size limit so has anyone seen a T explode ? If it could be overweight,we should have seen abdomens burst due to over stretching the exoskeleton etc.


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## Whaagh (Nov 18, 2014)

Ok, so last night i went in full panic mode cause my avic went into a death curl so i put her in a container with wet toilet paper, here by about 12:00 she started to walk around a bit im not 100% sure what went wrong maybe not enough humidity in the enclosure.  I will be changing up the holder today so she doesnt have further problems.  Thanks for all the advice guys


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## Martin1975 (Nov 18, 2014)

Whaagh said:


> Ok, so last night i went in full panic mode cause my avic went into a death curl so i put her in a container with wet toilet paper, here by about 12:00 she started to walk around a bit im not 100% sure what went wrong maybe not enough humidity in the enclosure.  I will be changing up the holder today so she doesnt have further problems.  Thanks for all the advice guys


I hope it all goes better,I know how it feels to lose a T so sorry to hear about the ordeal a person goes through a lot.


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## Whaagh (Nov 18, 2014)

Yeah didnt really sleep much last night due to her.  I will be purchasing a arboreal glass enclosure tonight.  Surprising how such a little thing can cause a sleepless night.


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## Martin1975 (Nov 18, 2014)

Whaagh said:


> Yeah didnt really sleep much last night due to her.  I will be purchasing a arboreal glass enclosure tonight.  Surprising how such a little thing can cause a sleepless night.


That just shows you care,and sets humans apart from any other living organism.


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## Poec54 (Nov 18, 2014)

Whaagh said:


> Ok, so last night i went in full panic mode cause my avic went into a death curl so i put her in a container with wet toilet paper, here by about 12:00 she started to walk around a bit im not 100% sure what went wrong maybe not enough humidity in the enclosure.  I will be changing up the holder today so she doesnt have further problems.  Thanks for all the advice guys


With Avics, the problem is usually too much moisture and lack of airflow.  They rarely suffer from being too dry, as long as a water bowl is in the cage.  Your putting your Avic in ICU (small moist container) is most likely counterproductive.  Odds are that's the last thing an Avic needs. It's walking around now may be wanting to get away from the moisture.


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## Whaagh (Nov 18, 2014)

Poec54 said:


> With Avics, the problem is usually too much moisture and lack of airflow.  They rarely suffer from being too dry, as long as a water bowl is in the cage.  Your putting your Avic in ICU (small moist container) is most likely counterproductive.  Odds are that's the last thing an Avic needs. It's walking around now may be wanting to get away from the moisture.


When i got home from work yesterday she was sitting on exactly the same spot as when i left in the morning.  So a couple of minutes later i noticed that she had fallen to the ground and started to curl up.  At that moment i contacted a local breeder for assistance, i explained the full story and she advised me to put her in the T'ICU.  About a hour later she started to move her legs a little but then about another hour later she slowly started to walk around on the toilet paper.  At about 00:00 last night she had climbed to the top of the container.  When i left for work this morning she had started to spin a little so took that as a very good sign


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## Poec54 (Nov 18, 2014)

Whaagh said:


> When i got home from work yesterday she was sitting on exactly the same spot as when i left in the morning.  So a couple of minutes later i noticed that she had fallen to the ground and started to curl up.  At that moment i contacted a local breeder for assistance, i explained the full story and she advised me to put her in the T'ICU.  About a hour later she started to move her legs a little but then about another hour later she slowly started to walk around on the toilet paper.  At about 00:00 last night she had climbed to the top of the container.  When i left for work this morning she had started to spin a little so took that as a very good sign


Did you have a water bowl in the cage?  Lack of that is the only way they should get dehydrated.


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## SammyBoy (Nov 18, 2014)

To address the op, I've both and they both have their merits.  As far as aesthetics go they both give you that stunning colours, they are both easily taken care of, it all depends on if you want a slow-grower or something that will reach maturity right away.

Here's a versi at what is imo their most beautiful stage of growth




And here's a gbb


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## Whaagh (Nov 18, 2014)

Poec54 said:


> Did you have a water bowl in the cage?  Lack of that is the only way they should get dehydrated.


I did have a water bowl in the enclosure but at the time she did this i realized that the water had dried up.  So it was my own carelessness that led to her falling into this state.  I filled it up with water again and she has already started to spin a web.

O sammyboy. i have already chosen both T's but thanks a lot for the input


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## Ultum4Spiderz (Nov 18, 2014)

Poec54 said:


> Did you have a water bowl in the cage?  Lack of that is the only way they should get dehydrated.


Yeah I miss my A versi , She had a water-bowl but I still do not know why she died of a wet molt she was so healthy , could lack of wet substrate kill a Avic? Such a cool spider, I will buy more when I find a affordable price.:biggrin:


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## Poec54 (Nov 19, 2014)

Ultum4Spiderz said:


> Yeah I miss my A versi , She had a water-bowl but I still do not know why she died of a wet molt she was so healthy , could lack of wet substrate kill a Avic? Such a cool spider, I will buy more when I find a affordable price.:biggrin:


Versicolor are hardy, with the right conditions, which I've spelled out many times.  Cross ventilation and moisture control are the keys.  Why keep a spider without substrate?


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## Ultum4Spiderz (Nov 19, 2014)

Poec54 said:


> Versicolor are hardy, with the right conditions, which I've spelled out many times.  Cross ventilation and moisture control are the keys.  Why keep a spider without substrate?


She had substrate it wasn't very wet.


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## Poec54 (Nov 19, 2014)

Ultum4Spiderz said:


> She had substrate it wasn't very wet.


Shouldn't be wet at all.


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## Ultum4Spiderz (Nov 19, 2014)

Poec54 said:


> Shouldn't be wet at all.


O well maybe just a freak bad molt, it was doing so well. Maybe it fell off its tube web after molt & got injured.  Who knows my A avic has done fine so far.


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## Martin1975 (Nov 19, 2014)

Poec54 said:


> Shouldn't be wet at all.


Hello
You can check some of my avics I have displayed earlier in this post,all been raised since sling all substrate wet(misted substrate) not one death perfect webbing no water dish etc.


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## Whaagh (Nov 21, 2014)

Just a update and i think i will close the thread after this. I moved my A. Versi Colour into a Arboreal a enclosure with something to build her web on.  Within moments of putting her in she started to walk around and spin.  I'm also making a point of keeping up the humidity/misting every couple of days.  Think i will finish this thread off with positing a Picture later this afternoon.


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## Martin1975 (Nov 21, 2014)

Whaagh said:


> Just a update and i think i will close the thread after this. I moved my A. Versi Colour into a Arboreal a enclosure with something to build her web on.  Within moments of putting her in she started to walk around and spin.  I'm also making a point of keeping up the humidity/misting every couple of days.  Think i will finish this thread off with positing a Picture later this afternoon.


Hope all goes well,spinning or webbing is a good sign.


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## Poec54 (Nov 21, 2014)

Martin1975 said:


> Hope all goes well,spinning or webbing is a good sign.


Yes, a very good sign.  It means the spiders feels at home.


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## VenomousMe (Nov 23, 2014)

Poec54 said:


> And that's the problem, 'setting them up right' is crucial, and often difficult for beginners to the hobby.  There's been a lot of 'My Dead Avic' threads here.  It's best if people get some experience with the easier ones first.  Once they can do those, then they'll have a better feel for when they try Avics.  It's in the best interests of the spider that they don't wind up in the hands of someone who's going into this with some experience.
> 
> ---------- Post added 10-29-2014 at 09:26 AM ----------
> 
> ...



OBT's are an excellent beginner T. I'm a beginner, I have 8 of them, and have had no issues. Therefore what are you talking about? Please, tell us again why they aren't good beginner T's? Hardy? There is no hardier T. Gorgeous? One of the best looking ones imo. Do they bite? Yes. So do avics and g roseas. So WHAT makes them not a beginner T? The fact that they frighten you? Who are you? Some scared guy? You come off like you're yoda, but you live in  fear of the animals you keep. Good luck with that.


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## viper69 (Nov 23, 2014)

VenomousMe said:


> OBT's are an excellent beginner T. I'm a beginner, I have 8 of them, and have had no issues.....Please, tell us again why they aren't good beginner T's? Hardy? There is no hardier T. Gorgeous? One of the best looking ones imo. Do they bite? Yes. So do avics and g roseas. So WHAT makes them not a beginner T? The fact that they frighten you? Who are you? Some scared guy? You come off like you're yoda, but you live in  fear of the animals you keep. Good luck with that.


I guess you don't know a lot about Poec54's collection of Ts or him personally based on your disrespectful response.  Typically getting tagged by an Old World T, eg a Baboon, is worse than tagged by a New World like an Avic. Just like there are intermediate and advanced reptiles in the hobby, many people have the same belief for the arachnid hobby as well.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Poec54 (Nov 23, 2014)

VenomousMe said:


> OBT's are an excellent beginner T. I'm a beginner, I have 8 of them, and have had no issues. Therefore what are you talking about? Please, tell us again why they aren't good beginner T's? Hardy? There is no hardier T. Gorgeous? One of the best looking ones imo. Do they bite? Yes. So do avics and g roseas. So WHAT makes them not a beginner T? The fact that they frighten you? Who are you? Some scared guy? You come off like you're yoda, but you live in  fear of the animals you keep. Good luck with that.


Back again spouting more bad advice.  Unlike you, some of us want to keep this hobby going for decades, which is going to be more and more of a challenge, as governments continue to ban tarantula and exotic animal ownership.  What will drive that is beginners getting high-profile bites (think internet).  OBT's nailing kids, especially ones that got loose in the house.  Recipe for a public relations disaster.  Spider owners have no political clout.  Our animals can be banned in a day with the stroke of a pen.  We need to act responsible, or the hobby will come crashing down.  Probably not an issue with you, as you have all the classic characteristics of a short-timer; you'll move on to something else to stroke your ego.  You've been in the hobby how long?  And have instantly become some kind of expert?  Yeah, we see a few guys like that here every year.  Believe me, there's nothing unique about you.

Reactions: Like 2


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## MrDave (Nov 23, 2014)

VenomousMe said:


> OBT's are an excellent beginner T. I'm a beginner, I have 8 of them, and have had no issues. Therefore what are you talking about? Please, tell us again why they aren't good beginner T's? Hardy? There is no hardier T. Gorgeous? One of the best looking ones imo. Do they bite? Yes. So do avics and g roseas. So WHAT makes them not a beginner T? The fact that they frighten you? Who are you? Some scared guy? You come off like you're yoda, but you live in  fear of the animals you keep. Good luck with that.


G rosea bite report:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m7Www4ATes
OBT bite report: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B86JY1uKpsw

Both are grown men bit on the tip of a finger. One describes the pain as 'no big deal' while the other brought the guy to his knees for 13 minutes and was giving him cramps hours later. Yeah, both these species bite, but clearly, when you're advising someone who's entering the hobby you'd advise them to pick a spider that won't mess them up like that when they make their first mistake. It'd be pretty irresponsible do otherwise. 

To Poec54's point, imagine what'd happen if a 5 year old got tagged by an escaped OBT and the buyer decided to sue the petstore. Your favorite politicians would be climbing all over themselves to be the first to ban pet spiders. All of them, not just OBTs. Better include scorpions and centipedes too.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Ultum4Spiderz (Nov 23, 2014)

VenomousMe said:


> OBT's are an excellent beginner T. I'm a beginner, I have 8 of them, and have had no issues. Therefore what are you talking about? Please, tell us again why they aren't good beginner T's? Hardy? There is no hardier T. Gorgeous? One of the best looking ones imo. Do they bite? Yes. So do avics and g roseas. So WHAT makes them not a beginner T? The fact that they frighten you? Who are you? Some scared guy? You come off like you're yoda, but you live in  fear of the animals you keep. Good luck with that.


Well just because you have no issues , does not mean other beginners will not get bitten by them.
They are more of a intermediate-advanced spider and bites are very painful. I would suggest B vagans to beginner if they want something a little feistier. B vagans can be moody but aren't as fast as OBT, weaker venom too,.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Martin1975 (Nov 24, 2014)

Hello 
With the thinking of an obt for a beginner is okay,I will list my personal Opinion thus not a rule nor will I debate it since it is a personal view. The problem I have with keeping an obt as a beginner is,yes they will be able to take care of it as a sling anyone can but as it grows the danger grows exponentially. The other problem is,people use tarantula types as stepping stones to their capability meaning a newbie will start with a chaco and progress as he is more experienced. So starting say with an obt,what's the next level a feather leg ? Since going any where else would be boring,and pokies are in my opinion chilled compared to the aforementioned. 

We have to realise people will interpret text and apply as they see fit,with any piece of advice if there is even a slim chance for disaster please advise. If a person chooses to keep an obt feather leg Togo starburst,and least be open to the fact one needs to keep these at least a few years to lay judgment if they are okay to be kept as a newbie. I will even say,after rehousing an obt or one if the others above as an adult,you will certainly have a different view on them.

If someone wants an adrenalin rush causing T,get the following new world's and they don't have potent venom.
- P.Irminia Venezuelan Sun tiger 
- P.Cancerides Hatian Brown 
- A.laeta Puerto Rican pink toe one evil avic 
These examples are the ones with high attitude and sure adrenalin junkie results, unless its not the feisty that appeals but the danger ? Then it is irresponsible, and the sun tiger trumps the obt in beauty. 

I have all the specimens mentioned above,minus the obt since it I have in its place others that rank equal or higher in attitude and venom potency. I will never ever tell a newbie to get an obt like tarantula,rather guide them to make an informative choice that is the key word informative. Thus give all the good and the bad,if it is said with warnings making that choice will be in the hands of that hobbyist and he or she must own up to their own choices.

Reactions: Like 5


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## Whaagh (Nov 24, 2014)

Wow my post exploded again.  Bellow is a pic of my Avic. Versi, sitting at the top of her cage in her web.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Ultum4Spiderz (Nov 24, 2014)

I miss my Versi female, A bad molt or a fall after molting in her tube web killed her.  These are easy to care for just keep a good water dish for them at all times full. I need more Old worlder's though, that's what I am collecting more from now on.


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## Methal (Nov 24, 2014)

Been keeping black widows for years. Of my first 5 Ts 2 of them are OBTs. Rather get bit by the obt any day. 1 day of pain + 4 cramping beats 5 days of pain in the hospital and 6 weeks of cramping.  
So far they are more inclined to run than fight. 
I'd say all the people that encourage handling of T's are more of a problem than the experience of the owner. Leave the damn thing alone and it will be just as easy to care for as a rosie.


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## Ultum4Spiderz (Nov 24, 2014)

Methal said:


> Been keeping black widows for years. Of my first 5 Ts 2 of them are OBTs.
> So far they are more inclined to run than fight.
> I'd say all the people that encourage handling of T's are more of a problem than the experience of the owner. Leave the damn thing alone and it will be just as easy to care for as a rosie.


Yeah If you leave your OBT alone you will not get bit period. They are not as scary as Hatian brown , or LP those are fearless. Wild LP must be the size or close to Goliath otherwise they wouldn't be so bold or fearless,. Either way a 7-10.5" spider is big period,  7-8" usual size. Despite T blondi being a bit heavier then L klugi ,Goliath average id say 8-10" size.


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## Whaagh (Nov 25, 2014)

Our local supplier breeder actually had a comp and i won a Klugi, im so happy to hear they get very big


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