# Gooty Ornamental...$450???



## versicolor (Mar 22, 2004)

Hi, this is my first post. I just came across this forum last night and enjoy it very much. Lots of interesting things going on here. My question is about the Gooty Ornamental I have just recently seen offered at a few dealer/breeder sites. One of the most awesome tarantulas I think I have ever seen but also the most expensive as well. I understand that these are new and rare and there are only a handfull available but how is the asking price determined? The lowest price I've seen these for is $375 and the highest $450. I would assume that once they have been distributed it is then a race to produce spiderlings and the price will drop dramatically, but how does one decide on a $450 price tag to begin with? And why so high for that matter? I know that I will eventually own one but will definately have to wait, as I am sure is the case with most of you, until they are much more readily available. Kind of frustrates me in a way.


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## heyjeyniceid (Mar 22, 2004)

how's it going Versicolor?

there was actually a very good post on this about a week ago examining why p. metallica are so expensive 

and it basically rounded down to a very in demand spider from a popular genus with very little to go around.  

the first round of p. metallica wasnt as expensive, but as word and pics of this species began to circulate, frothing demand increased and dealors seeing this decided they could probably make a better profit if the price tag was raised.  

the fact that its also expensive gives the spider an air of exclusivity (real word), thus more people wanting to be in on the club.


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## petitegreeneyes (Mar 22, 2004)

I have to disagree with you on the first batch in wasn't as expensive. Yes they were. I got one from the first batch and they were running the same price as they are this time around. They are just expensive due to the fact that they are a newly discovered tarantula and there isn't that many out to produce offspring for selling. Mine was worth every cent that I paid for her. Truely beautiful spider.


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## Philth (Mar 22, 2004)

I believe there going for the same price as the first batch that came in, but there also half the size.  The first batch was showing adult colors when they got here.  Also P. metallica was first described in 1899, although they seemed to vanish until a couple yeras ago.


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## petitegreeneyes (Mar 22, 2004)

O.K., Philth, I apologize for not knowing the 1899. But you are correct in saying the first batch was bigger than the second batch. Here's an updated pic of my girl, Patience.


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## PapaSmurf (Mar 23, 2004)

I've seen P.metallica as cheap as 300 bucks the normal price rate is 450.00  tho, as soon as people start breeding in the U.S prices will slowly drop, yeah just search back for the post about the P.metallica you will get all the info you need oh and BTW welcome to the boards!!!!!!!!!


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## xBurntBytheSunx (Mar 23, 2004)

i am rather amused that p.metallica cost so much.  there has been a lot of buzz about them on the boards lately and i have to think a lot of it has to do with the price.  there is just something about humans where we want what we can't have the most.  

i'm absolutely not criticizing people for purchasing them though.  i'm sure for the serious collector, who likely has intentions of breeding, that they are worth the price...however there are many very handsome tarantulas which don't cost nearly as much.  i have to think the desirability comes mostly from the scarcity and price of this species.


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## heyjeyniceid (Mar 23, 2004)

ah, I thought I heard someone remark that the first round wasnt as expensive.  My bad.


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## Bearo (Mar 23, 2004)

I still wounder why people dont just ship all p. metallicas to Sweden... everyone knows they belong here (just look at the colours  ;P )
but here is only one sling as far as I know..

Why dont you guys buy from europe? ;P 
they are not that high priced here, a sling cost 2000 kr here I think (not 100% sure) and thats 262,40 USD 
then just add the shiping...

or is that the most common way for you guys to buy them already?  :?


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## rosehaired1979 (Mar 23, 2004)

Cheapest I have seen is $299.95


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## bodc21 (Mar 23, 2004)

www.invertepet.com has them advertised at <price edited - classifieds not allowed in the info forums - MrD> but i wont believe it till i hear that someone on these boards purchased one and recieved it also!


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## Phalagorn (Mar 23, 2004)

Bearo said:
			
		

> I still wounder why people dont just ship all p. metallicas to Sweden... everyone knows they belong here (just look at the colours  ;P )
> but here is only one sling as far as I know..
> 
> Why dont you guys buy from europe? ;P
> ...


Yo! Bearo - my friend, whats up?...
I would make an little correction, Poecilotheria metallica cost 200 Euro ($ 239,65 USD) in Europe, and thats correct what you said - then just add the shiping!

/Best regards, Stefan "Phalagorn" Bergström...
http://www.zoonen.com/minzoon.asp?oid=22299


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## MizM (Mar 23, 2004)

Bearo said:
			
		

> I still wounder why people dont just ship all p. metallicas to Sweden... everyone knows they belong here (just look at the colours)


Because there are Swedes HERE who want them too! ME! ;P


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## metallica (Mar 23, 2004)

or just get them at a show and pay no shipping   
damn i love europe!


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## Bearo (Mar 23, 2004)

Phalagorn said:
			
		

> Yo! Bearo - my friend, whats up?...
> I would make an little correction, Poecilotheria metallica cost 200 Euro ($ 239,65 USD) in Europe, and thats correct what you said - then just add the shiping!
> 
> /Best regards, Stefan "Phalagorn" Bergström...
> http://www.zoonen.com/minzoon.asp?oid=22299


aahh ok, but we often count 1€ as 10kr here, sorry   



			
				MizM said:
			
		

> Because there are Swedes HERE who want them too! ME!  ;P


ok, dont you live in US?
wright something in Swedish so I belive you


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## xBurntBytheSunx (Mar 23, 2004)

"the fact that it is a stunning BLUE spider from a genus primarily known for shades of grey, with a couple greenish brown members makes it pretty desirable" 

i do agree that they are stunning, but as far as i am concerned if sun tigers, green bottle blues, versicolors etc were that rare and expensive people would want them just about as much.  

before all the hubub about the gooty ornamentals, columbian lesserbacks were all the rage...and as far as i am concerned that spider (although attractive) doesn't look much more fantastic than a red phase g. rosea. someone posted a few weeks ago that "p. metallica is the crown jewel of the hobby" and i think that statement says a lot.  

so although they may be a beautiful spider i think the main aspect of their desirability is the fact that so many people want them and so few can have them.  

if anybody has ever read the novel "needful things" stephen king talks about "the pride of posession" and how simply having or owning some certain thing makes people feel better about themselves.  

like i said before, i'm most certainly not criticizing people for buying them.  i'm sure the more interest in them that there is now, the more available they will be in the hobby for someone like me who may want one, but is willing to wait 5 or 10 years for prices to become more reasonable.


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## MizM (Mar 23, 2004)

ok said:
			
		

> I don't know a WORD of it! My grandmother and grandfather were born in Norkopping, grandmas name was Hillevi Braug Danielson. I'm stubborn as a Swede and just look at that nose!!


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## Slide (Mar 23, 2004)

I don't know what to think here.  I can certainly verify that this T stands out, head-and-shoulders, above the rest in it's beauty.  I certainly see the argument that there are many other stunning species of Ts available, but every time I show pictures of Ts to non-hobbyists, many will illicit comments about the attractiveness of various species, but only the P. metallica routinely brings jaw-dropping and awestruck responses.  If this were the case from hobbyists, I could see attributing it to the fact that it's a Poecilotheria, or the fact that it's rare, or any of a number of attributes, but the reactions that come from folks who don't know (or care) about it one way or the other and are only reacting to the visage of the spider, without any sort of price/availability/Genus context really testifies to the level on which this T speaks to people.

My significant other, scoffing at the $15 or $25 I've spent on the occasional spiderling in the past, and knowing nothing of Ts other than that I have a few and they eat crickets, immediately suggested I buy (at least) one of these.  When I told her they were $450, she replied by stating that as soon as they dropped below $200, I was to order one.

As for me personally -- hell yeah I want one of these!  I certainly don't want it because it's expensive (I'm not rich, that's for sure), but it doesn't help that it's: blue, Poecilotheria, rare, and beautiful.    

Cheers!


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## Buspirone (Mar 23, 2004)

It may be a LONG time before the price comes down depending on how easily they breed, produce egg sacs and how many of the eggs actually emerge if they do at all. Here's hoping they breed like P. regalis! With the high price tag you can be sure that those who have them with the intention of breeding them will be monitoring their prizes closely and everything that can be done will be done to establish them in the hobby as a staple instead of as a rarity. IMO, This is one species that I would rather see long term hobbyists get who have successful breeding experience with Pokies.


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## MizM (Mar 23, 2004)

I think I'll be able to fly to Gooty, hide one in my pants, and fly home before I can afford one! (Insert ouch smiley here!)

The desire factor for me is just their incredible beauty! I only have one pokie, a regalis, and haven't really drooled over a pokie, but this one is amazing! I fantasize about a terrarium with 6 or 7 of them, living in azure harmony!!


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## Ultimate Instar (Mar 23, 2004)

There are a few unusual features to P. metallica.  I purchased two of them some months ago.  They've grown quite a bit (about 3 inches now) and look quite nice even in relatively dim light.  They stay out in plain sight practically 24/7 and haven't shown any defensive behavior.  I regularly feed them with my tweezers.  Of course, I never handle them; they _are_ still pokies.  They're fairly active so they're a little more interesting to observe.  I'm very happy with them, and, for me, they're worth the price.  There aren't many 7-inch bright blue spiders that hang out in plain sight during the day.  

The price on metallica should come down eventually but pokies only have about 100 babies per eggsac, and some pokies, like P. subfusca, seem to be difficult to breed.  I believe that Hendriks mentioned that subfusca's home range in India got hit with a massive fire, so the outlook for that species may be rather dicey.  But, according to what's been posted, Hendriks has managed to produce 4 metallica eggsacs so, hopefully, they will become more plentiful.  It will take a while, though.  

Karen N.


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## Ultimate Instar (Mar 23, 2004)

I thought there was only one sac from last summer, but I may be wrong.

Karen N.


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## MizM (Mar 23, 2004)

Ultimate Instar said:
			
		

> There are a few unusual features to P. metallica.  I purchased two of them some months ago.  They've grown quite a bit (about 3 inches now) and look quite nice even in relatively dim light.  They stay out in plain sight practically 24/7 and haven't shown any defensive behavior.  I regularly feed them with my tweezers.  Of course, I never handle them; they _are_ still pokies.  They're fairly active so they're a little more interesting to observe.  I'm very happy with them, and, for me, they're worth the price.  There aren't many 7-inch bright blue spiders that hang out in plain sight during the day.
> 
> Karen N.


Oh FINE... make them sound MORE attractive. MAKE me want one even MORE!!!
  If you guys don't stop saying such wonderful things about them, I'm going to cancel my flight to Gooty and just BUY ONE!!!


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## Code Monkey (Mar 23, 2004)

xBurntBytheSunx said:
			
		

> before all the hubub about the gooty ornamentals, columbian lesserbacks were all the rage...and as far as i am concerned that spider (although attractive) doesn't look much more fantastic than a red phase g. rosea. someone posted a few weeks ago that "p. metallica is the crown jewel of the hobby" and i think that statement says a lot.


There are 'rages' within the hobby and, admittedly, part of the _interest_ in P. metallica is driven by the novelty and 'rage' of the species/genera. However, like UInstar mentioned, there are more subtle factors involved that make it the most expensive spider of all.
Beauty: in terms of complexity of markings there is no group in the theraphosidae that match the Poecilotheria, and this one is a blue-white-grey version of those markings. It is unusual in every way within the hobby for appearance and beauty. If it only cost $5, all that would mean is that every person who likes Pokies would have a wall covered with tanks of them. I just don't see that it's possible to compare the looks of P. metallica with any of the other beautiful species out there.
Unlike some of the other previous hot Ts such as Megaphobema and Xenesthis species, this one doesn't have 'advanced hobbyist' all over it. Those Ts can be a bit demanding on husbandry needs. P. metallica, though, is every bit as undemanding and easy to care for as the other Pokies. The fact that it's the most striking species to ever be available in the hobby combined with the fact that almost any one of us could be expected to successfully rear it to adulthood adds to the desirability.
It's an arboreal that evidently spends its time in the open, that is quite the find in a display spider of any appearance and then you add *this* degree of attractiveness...
and so on...
While I agree with some of the sentiments you express, I think you exaggerate the importance of the 'bragging rights' factor for P. metallica. It's certainly part of the equation but there's a lot more at work here.


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## brgn (Mar 23, 2004)

Ultimate Instar said:
			
		

> I believe that Hendriks mentioned that subfusca's home range in India got hit with a massive fire, so the outlook for that species may be rather dicey.
> Karen N.


I think it was the home range of smithi that got hit with the fire. A species that now are even more rare than metallica in the hobby, and also seems to be one of the most difficult pokies. And when they do get a viable sack, the number of spiderlings are very small. And both of these species are from Sri Lanka, not India.

Robert


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## Ultimate Instar (Mar 23, 2004)

I was going by memory about something Hendriks posted several months ago on Arachnid World.  I probably remembered that incorrectly.

Karen N.


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## versicolor (Mar 23, 2004)

I still don't understand how one comes to a decision on that kind of asking price. For example, if you happened to be the first person to recieve a shipment of these creatures, what on earth makes you go, "hmm, $450 sounds like a good place to start." The only thing I can come up with is comparing what was at the time the most expensive species, maybe like 10 yrs ago. I remember seeing king baboons and regalis for like $150-$200 and thinking that was insane and that I would NEVER pay that much. Now, 10 yrs later, we have the Gooty going for $450. I would gladly pay $150-$200 for a Gooty today. It would be interesting to see what people would actually be willing to pay. $800? $1000? And what stopped the first guy from asking that much to begin with?


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## MizM (Mar 23, 2004)

K, if diamonds were underfoot, everywhere you went, they wouldn't be worth ANYTHING. But they are hard to find and a lot of work to dig, cut and polish, so they are very expensive.

EVERYONE has a g. rosea, they breed like rabbits and are easy to care for and breed. They cost $12.00. Few people own a Gooty and they have very small sacs. There aren't enought to go around. They cost HUNDREDS.

Does that make more sense?


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## Code Monkey (Mar 23, 2004)

versicolor said:
			
		

> I still don't understand how one comes to a decision on that kind of asking price.


Actually, the asking price was easy to come to: it was a *cheap* markup of the wholesale dealers in this country had to pay to get them from the whopping *one* European supplier. That supplier was working from a position of only having a couple of hundred slings to sell to a world wide market that could easily suck up a hundred times that supply and was also trying to recoup some of the expense of his self funded trip to India to get a handful of adults with little guarantee that he would ever get more slings. Trust me, if they were priced like most tarantulas relative to owner and dealer cost they'd be twice what they are. The $400 point is basically a loss for dealers as it's as much as they figured the market could bear, but if a single one dies there goes the profit from three others.


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## Tony (Mar 23, 2004)

Code Monkey said:
			
		

> Actually, the asking price was easy to come to: it was a *cheap* markup of the wholesale dealers in this country had to pay to get them from the whopping *one* European supplier. That supplier was working from a position of only having a couple of hundred slings to sell to a world wide market that could easily suck up a hundred times that supply and was also trying to recoup some of the expense of his self funded trip to India to get a handful of adults with little guarantee that he would ever get more slings. Trust me, if they were priced like most tarantulas relative to owner and dealer cost they'd be twice what they are. The $400 point is basically a loss for dealers as it's as much as they figured the market could bear, but if a single one dies there goes the profit from three others.


You sure about your math Codester,or are you 'hyperbolizing' ????  Loss or profit are pretty much well defined terms. If you buy a spider for 300 and make 100, you would have to sell about 7  versicolor to make that $100. I figure at the going wholesale versi rate, and selling at $20 retail...Ahh but lookng at it as a per unit loss possibility one has to wonder what the actual loss rates are for seasoned shippers, then you can realisitcally draw a contingency markup above normal profit. VERY hard to do from anyone but a dealers perspective, including you . Seeing how 'anything' can happen in transit I would assume then by that logic you would need at least 3 times markup to make "any" money. $400 doesnt represent a loss as far as I can tell--from my perspective  --even if you lose one of the 4. And I highly doubt with a spider priced like this a dealer would be taking a 25% mortality rate. Shipping seems to be done cautiously with these, I had to wait a bit..

And as far as pushing the retail up to a mere $400, (no profit) because 'its as much as they'd figure the market would bear'  isn't holding up so well right now is it?  Now we have a new player bringing in his own spiders charging  almost  $300 each. Initial offerings this time around were as high as $525. Perhaps the 'bearing' of the price this time around isn't so bearable after all? with 125 (+ the new 25) there seems to be some slashing going on...supply and demand meeting around $300? 

T


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## Code Monkey (Mar 23, 2004)

monantony said:
			
		

> You sure about your math Codester,or are you 'hyperbolizing' ????


Well, I know what the approximate wholesale price of the P. metallica that were in this official second shipment was and $450 doesn't come very close to even a 100% markup. If a dealer had actually had to refund $450, he'd have needed to sell about 3 (since you can't sell fractions) to make up the loss assuming we're talking P. metallica from that shipment. You also seemed to have misunderstood me (or maybe I just wasn't very clear) in that I never intended to mean that $450 is a loss of profit, only that it's a loss of normal profit for dealers. You make a good point in the contingency arguments, but since the on-hand supply of most dealers is single digits, losing one would mean a huge hit to the pocketbook no matter what the odds were, it's a risk I'd be loathe to take unless I were very confident of my shipping successes.

As for the mystery guy popping up with the bulk $300 P. metallica, I don't know where he got them, but he didn't get them from this known-to-me importation from Hendriks. If this is a legit offer (and your +25 comment makes it sound like you already know it is), we've got another player on the block, and competition is what drives prices down.


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## Tony (Mar 23, 2004)

Well as far I as can see, he was in Germany and brought them back himself, I called over there today. I know one of the guys working there. Its a big herp house....Get the PM? True a refund of $450 (what happened to $400 NEway) would suck but in actual lost dollars its only what the dealer paid. Having not made that "$100" profit now that the spider is dead and then calling it more loss on top of your "$300" cost is not how I usually look at it, and if drawn out further, then every spider loses an additional $100 because potentially you maybe-mighta-coulda charged that $100 more. Especially when you look at how they sold first time around. If everyone paid $400 then, and they all went so quick then the dealers lost (41) X $50,and maybe even $100 each that they coulda charged and taken a few weeks longer to sell out...Kinda like when the police seize a kilo of coke and it has a gazillion dollar street value when taking into consideration the 1/100 of a line price or something   and not the $10,000 paid price..
T


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## Code Monkey (Mar 24, 2004)

monantony said:
			
		

> what happened to $400 NEway


OK, pencil in $400 above 
I wasn't exactly going back to my earlier post and fact checking since it was the general idea I was blathering on about - at $400 or $450, the P. metallica are selling at less of a markup than most tarantulas.



> Having not made that "$100" profit now that the spider is dead and then calling it more loss on top of your "$300" cost is not how I usually look at it...


Fair enough, I can understand the argument about net profit versus projected profit even though it is not uncommon for businesses to operate upon the assumption of certain profit dividends. If you were expecting to yield $1000 of off that $1000 investment and you only clear $600 that is going to affect your business.


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## Tony (Mar 24, 2004)

Net vs projected..I'm no accountant, dont confuse me. What would judge "moolyani" say? That saucy red head....I need to do community service <OT tangent alert, course correction in progress>.
Still its very nice and we all love em, did you get any?
T


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## Code Monkey (Mar 24, 2004)

monantony said:
			
		

> Still its very nice and we all love em, did you get any?


No, with my (lack of) funds I could either get 1 P. metallica or 2 P. subfusca from that shipment, I opted for 2X the chance of a female. Plus, one of these days the P. subfusca are going to be more valuable than metallica if the P. metallica actually continue to drop sacs regularly in captivity. If I can corner the market on American born P. subs I'll be able to buy all the gooties I want  (or so say the voices in my head)


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## Botar (Mar 24, 2004)

Not wanting to throw a monkey wrench in the econ lesson, but I can attest to the fact that if I lost one, it would eliminate any profit margin in my metallica venture.  Basically, all the hand wringing and risk calculations being made by consumers prior to purchasing a P. metallica from a dealer were made by me before purchasing them wholesale.  As Code Monkey said, the retail price was pretty easy to come by and the profit margin is less than most other species.  When you sell stock that expensive, you just don't make much money on them percentage wise.

Botar


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## xBurntBytheSunx (Mar 24, 2004)

"While I agree with some of the sentiments you express, I think you exaggerate the importance of the 'bragging rights' factor for P. metallica. It's certainly part of the equation but there's a lot more at work here"

i'm not saying its just bragging rights.  i agree its a very desirable spider.  but i wouldn't agree that its worth that kind of money unless you are going to try to breed it and hopefully make your money back.  but then again $450 is a lot more to me than it is to a lot of people who have full time jobs and aren't in school so i guess that is relative.


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## Botar (Mar 24, 2004)

xBurntBytheSunx said:
			
		

> i'm not saying its just bragging rights.  i agree its a very desirable spider.  but i wouldn't agree that its worth that kind of money unless you are going to try to breed it and hopefully make your money back.  but then again $450 is a lot more to me than it is to a lot of people who have full time jobs and aren't in school so i guess that is relative.



I think you hit on two key points here.  The breeding aspect and the financial relativity.  For some, shelling out $450 to add a rare and beautiful spider to their collection can be justified.  For others, the possibility of recuperating some costs through future breeding is very tempting.

Kind of reminds me of the guys who buy a Honda for $5,000, put another $3,000 into it modifying it only to have a vehicle worth less than the original $5,000 that can't be sold to anyone but another kid interested in that kind of car.  People spend money on what is important to them regardless of if the rest of us understand it or not.

Botar


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## Code Monkey (Mar 24, 2004)

There is also even the argument to be made that the $400 price point makes it more likely that the P. metallica will only go to people serious enough about the hobby to ensure that each and every one that makes it to adulthood is likely to be bred. The less something costs, the more likely you are to purchase it as a disposeable entertainment no matter how desireable they are to the general hobby. At $150 maybe the status of the P. met is enough to justify the expense to you, but is it worth another $250+? I know that I wouldn't spend that sort of money on a spider unless I had every intention of trying to breed it.


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## Martin H. (Mar 24, 2004)

Hi MizM,



			
				MizM said:
			
		

> I think I'll be able to fly to Gooty, hide one in my pants, and fly home before I can afford one! (Insert ouch smiley here!)


If you just stay at Gooty, I bet you'll come home with empty pants! =;-)

The type specimen has been found there (near Gooty, 257 miles from Madras) but the species itself doesn't occour there. The one specimen (a single female) which had been found near Gooty came there with "driftwood": firewood for the steam locomotives. It has been found at the backwall of the engineer's bungalow of a train station next to the storage area for the firewood on the north-west line of the Madras Railway. => you can search there but you won't find anything there! =;-)~

...I think we had already one or two discussions about how useful and meaningful common names often are! *LOL*  why not call it "gooty powder blue"! ;P 





			
				Code Monkey said:
			
		

> Beauty: in terms of complexity of markings there is no group in the theraphosidae that match the Poecilotheria,


but there are some species which resemble a bit the members of the genus Poecilotheria, like the "shadow pokie" which is not a Poecilotheria species, but in the past several specimens have been sent to the museum in London labelled as Poecilotheria because for the people it looked like a Poecilotheria.

all the best,
Martin


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## pronty (Mar 24, 2004)

Martin H. said:
			
		

> ...I think we had already one or two discussions about how useful and meaningful common names often are! *LOL*  why not call it "gooty powder blue"! ;P


I want a Gooty Blue Booty Ornamental!


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## xBurntBytheSunx (Mar 24, 2004)

"the $400 price point makes it more likely that the P. metallica will only go to people serious enough about the hobby to ensure that each and every one that makes it to adulthood is likely to be bred"

i have to agree


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## da_illest (Mar 25, 2004)

hey! you guys are giving breeders more of a reason to charge more for them...


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## Code Monkey (Mar 25, 2004)

da_illest said:
			
		

> hey! you guys are giving breeders more of a reason to charge more for them...


I wouldn't say that, the fact that they thought they could charge wholesale prices that resulted in $300-$500 retail prices from day one says they already knew the exemplarly nature of this species. There are only two things that will alter the market value: competition and market saturation at a given price point.

The addition of someone else with eggsacs (which confirms that, although Hendrik's exportation was the only one done openly, other people have been smuggling them out of India) is that competition exists and has, at least temporarily, set the market value at about $300. However, there's not many and in a week or two we'll be looking at the $400 range price being the only ones left for sale since the fence sitters at $400+ prices will jump at the $300.

Besides, even if they wanted to keep prices high, that will only last so long. If suppliers attempt to keep the prices at the "exclusionary" $300+ range indefinitely, what you will wind up with is a scenario where the only people buying your $300+ slings are other people very serious about breeding themselves. There are two outcomes from that: one, eventually, even the serious breeders will be loathe to plunk down another $300+ for stock since the more they invest into their breeding stock the less chance they can recoup costs because, two, since the $300+ market is saturated and prices *will* drop significantly if they hope to unload their own slings in a timely fashion.

If there are multiple people sitting on smuggled WC stock in Europe waiting on them to drop sacks we'll probably see the $250 retail P. metallica before this time next year. It's all a question of how much competition there is with suppliers and how readily P. mets prove to reproduce in captivity.


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## Hendriks (Mar 25, 2004)

Code Monkey said:
			
		

> The addition of someone else with eggsacs (which confirms that, although Hendrik's exportation was the only one done openly, other people have been smuggling them out of India) is that competition exists and has, at least temporarily, set the market value at about $300. However, there's not many and in a week or two we'll be looking at the $400 range price being the only ones left for sale since the fence sitters at $400+ prices will jump at the $300.
> .


Well... The 300$ Metallica Spiderlings was also bought from me in Hamm and there was no price drop other than the normal quantity discount. Well for now I have sold all my spiderlings of metallica(except 100 for future breeding) and there will go some time before the next cocoons arrives. I have talked to some of the guys with adult metallicas and for now there is only 1 cocoon which will be ready in a month... He told me that he would keep some for future breeding and the rest will be sold for the same price... 

Hendriks


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## Code Monkey (Mar 25, 2004)

Hendriks said:
			
		

> Well... The 300$ Metallica Spiderlings was also bought from me in Hamm and there was no price drop other than the normal quantity discount. Well for now I have sold all my spiderlings of metallica(except 100 for future breeding) and there will go some time before the next cocoons arrives. I have talked to some of the guys with adult metallicas and for now there is only 1 cocoon which will be ready in a month... He told me that he would keep some for future breeding and the rest will be sold for the same price...


Thank you for the information. I had not assumed this last group was from you, but I see I was wrong. I guess the elimination of part of the chain of middle men knocked $100 off the price. Only one more sac in the immediate future, man it's going to be an interesting next couple of years with this species


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## GoTerps (Mar 25, 2004)

The 3 metallica's I just recieved I paid 850 for, or ~ $283 a piece for.  I wasn't going to get any at the 500, 450, 400 levels... but at 283 I snagged some.


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## MizM (Mar 25, 2004)

O.K. then... now I want to know why adult female g. roseas are selling at trade shows for $5.00. What are people thinking? The species is under appreciated, and now they are being given a low price tag! How can the market bear this price?

Oh, sorry....


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## Lasiodora (Mar 26, 2004)

Miz M,
G.roseas are imported in massive numbers (last I heard it was in the thousands).  Their availability is not dependent on the breeding of a few adult specimens. P.metallicas cannot be legally exported, thus the high price on the available spiderlings who were born from smuggled adults.
Mike


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## MizM (Mar 26, 2004)

Lasiodora said:
			
		

> Miz M,
> G.roseas are imported in massive numbers (last I heard it was in the thousands).  Their availability is not dependent on the breeding of a few adult specimens. P.metallicas cannot be legally exported, thus the high price on the available spiderlings who were born from smuggled adults.
> Mike



Umm, it was a joke!


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## Lasiodora (Mar 26, 2004)

I didn't get it  
Mike


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## Wade (Mar 26, 2004)

I'm going to go way out on a limb here and say that I don't think $450 is really that high of a price all things considered. Yes, it is way more expensive than anything else in the hobby, and way out of my league (at the moment), but you have to consider what you're getting.

Although individual preferances may vary, this is THE most desireable spider as far as the hobby at large is concerned. Top of the line. I can't think of many collecting hobbies where the absolute best can be had for that cheap. In the herp world, $450 an animal is expensive, but not outrageously so. The herp hobbys' equivelent to P. metallica (meaning the hot new animal everybody wants, whatever it is at the moment) sells for THOUSANDS of dollars each.  Tarantula keeping is still an inexpensive hobby, P. metallica notwithstanding.

Wade


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## deifiler (Mar 26, 2004)

Kind of off subject, but may I ask, what's the "average/recomended" US wage per hour? Me being a sudent I'm working at £4.50 an hour... So that's what, at least 50 hours to afford a metallica for me?


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## Wade (Mar 26, 2004)

I didn't mean that everyone could afford one. I sure can't. There's a top and a bottom for everything, I also wish I had a better car, computer, TV and house, but I just have to make do with what I have. 

Not everyone is going to get to have this spider right now, there aren't enough of them even if they were cheap. Those who want it will have to pay, and the rest of us will just have to wait and hope the price comes down eventually. I don't resent the dealers making there money where they can just beacause it's more than I personally can afford. If I was selling them I sure as hell wouldn't be giving them away!

Wade


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## Slide (Mar 26, 2004)

In the great scheme of things, the ideal price to sell anything at is the price whereby you make the most money and come as close to exhausting your supply as possible.  If there is more demand than you have supply, you probably aren't charging enough.  Considering everywhere I've looked is more or less out of stock on the P.metallicas, up to the $450 mark, I'm inclined to think that $450 was probably on the low side of what the market would bear...but on the other hand, it's been a month or two since they've been available, and I'm not sure how long it took the dealers to sell out.  Either way, given the circumstances, I would consider $450 a 'fair' price.  On the flip side, you won't see me buying one 'til they drop below the $200 mark...(you hear that dealers?  Guaranteed sale at $199.99 right here..  )

Cheers!
-Matt.


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## Heather (Jan 21, 2007)

I'm pretty new here so forgive me if I am way behind on 'current' info on this subject!

So I came across this post... I know that it's pretty darn old, but I am also wanting one of these T's... is it just me, or has the price went up even more since 2004?  I can't even find one to buy... one person said that they had a female that they were considering selling and even at that the price was $600.  

Can anyone here help me find one of these T's from a reputable seller?  I have searched and searched with no luck!  Of course, a female is what I would really like... but I sure would consider an unsexed juvy if the price is fair enough.

Thanks to all!


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## Code Monkey (Jan 21, 2007)

jojobird said:


> I'm pretty new here so forgive me if I am way behind on 'current' info on this subject!
> 
> So I came across this post... I know that it's pretty darn old, but I am also wanting one of these T's... is it just me, or has the price went up even more since 2004?  I can't even find one to buy... one person said that they had a female that they were considering selling and even at that the price was $600.
> 
> Can anyone here help me find one of these T's from a reputable seller?  I have searched and searched with no luck!  Of course, a female is what I would really like... but I sure would consider an unsexed juvy if the price is fair enough.


They are only available when people successfully breed them, and when that happens is periodic to say the least. Their numbers in the hobby just aren't high enough to have them constantly available like, say, B. albopilosum. On the bright side, the price for slings has been pretty stable around the $150 mark in recent history. Just keep your eyes on the pricelists and they'll be back.


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## rYe (Jan 21, 2007)

xBurntBytheSunx said:


> i'm sure for the serious collector, who likely has intentions of breeding, that they are worth the price...however there are many very handsome tarantulas which don't cost nearly as much.


I was just in a thread talking about this same subject (sorta) and have to agree on the insane prices. I understand the entire price for breeding size T's but $400 for a T is over the top. The most I ever plan on spending on a T is around $100 to get my hands on a T. Blondi.


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## Tony (Jan 21, 2007)

jojobird said:


> I'm pretty new here so forgive me if I am way behind on 'current' info on this subject!
> 
> So I came across this post... I know that it's pretty darn old, but I am also wanting one of these T's... is it just me, or has the price went up even more since 2004?  I can't even find one to buy... one person said that they had a female that they were considering selling and even at that the price was $600.
> 
> ...


I dont see how $600 is considered remotely high. How? FOR a female?? I Think they are going for around $200 for unsexed spiderlings.. Think there is much profit then for the guy who has a female?
Consider:
_ The Guy_ purchases 5 slings for $1000, feeds and houses them. HOPEFULLY incurs no losses due to cosmic rays or whatever (), and still with pokies can reasonably expect 2 females (but hey, my four subfusca slings ALL MALED OUT:wall:  )....So he does all the work and in theory can make a $200 profit, after aprox. two years?  
And yes I know there IS value (esp with this species) in males, but I sent mine out with an expectation of 10-15% chance of success.
This brings me to another point that needs making :
This is a high demand/high value spider. A $600 female can produce for you (IN theory) a sac containing 50-75 spiderlings...So 25-37.5 for your half, equalling $2500-$5000.......POTENTIALLY. And what if you have a sub-adult male already?   Do you see the potential?
I have one female, and perhaps even a second. I wouldnt consider selling them at this point, not even for $1000.
T


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## Heather (Jan 21, 2007)

Thanks for all the input...

I am only looking for one to have as a pet... I do not intend to breed, as I would have no idea what I would be doing :? 

So if anyone knows of a reputable seller that has one for sale for a price within my budget... which is less than $600, I would appreciate it.  

Heather


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## hcsk8ter (Jan 22, 2007)

Want my advice?  $450 for a T is a rip-off.  There are plenty of pretty T's, Pokeys included that are very cheap.  Save your hard-earned cash, the price will come down.


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## rYe (Jan 22, 2007)

Yeah, unless you got a deep pocket book I would hunt around for another T. There's tons of them that are just as amazing as the T in question for a fraction of the price.


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## spid142 (Jan 22, 2007)

*price*

I certainly admire the blue coloring of the metalica, and would like one, but I cant justify spending almost 200.00 for a spiderling.  Most Ive spent on a single T spiderling was 70.00 for my smithi.  Living expenses enter into it too, I can only spare a certain amount each month or so to buy Ts with.


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## Code Monkey (Jan 23, 2007)

hcsk8ter said:


> Want my advice?  $450 for a T is a rip-off.  There are plenty of pretty T's, Pokeys included that are very cheap.  Save your hard-earned cash, the price will come down.


The only ripoff is paying more than you feel something is worth. Poecilotheria have small clutches relative to many species and some species are hard to next to impossible to breed (fortunatley, P. metallica isn't one). It will be years, maybe 10 or more, before there's even a chance, though, that P. metallica will be as common in the hobby as something like P. regalis or ornata. If what you want is P. metallica, the $150-$200 price point (what they cost last time they were available) is more than reasonable compared to the rest of the market.


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## Nich (Apr 16, 2007)

Code Monkey said:


> The only ripoff is paying more than you feel something is worth. Poecilotheria have small clutches relative to many species and some species are hard to next to impossible to breed (fortunatley, P. metallica isn't one). It will be years, maybe 10 or more, before there's even a chance, though, that P. metallica will be as common in the hobby as something like P. regalis or ornata. If what you want is P. metallica, the $150-$200 price point (what they cost last time they were available) is more than reasonable compared to the rest of the market.


Just thought this had a well deserved resurection as all of those who posted and are still here......should be seeing alot of cb's by the end of the year....= )


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## Stylopidae (Apr 16, 2007)

Code Monkey said:


> The only ripoff is paying more than you feel something is worth. Poecilotheria have small clutches relative to many species and some species are hard to next to impossible to breed (fortunatley, P. metallica isn't one). It will be years, maybe 10 or more, before there's even a chance, though, that P. metallica will be as common in the hobby as something like P. regalis or ornata. If what you want is P. metallica, the $150-$200 price point (what they cost last time they were available) is more than reasonable compared to the rest of the market.


Exactly. There aren't any other spiders that have even similar looks, plus factor rarity into the equation.

Now, $200 for a xenesthis sling is different.


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## bushbuster (Apr 16, 2007)

The prices on these seem a bit ridiculous, kinda like when the Sharpei dog came on the scene to the tune of 2500.00, and everyone just HAD to have one!!


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## Wadew (Apr 16, 2007)

I think a good sharpei is still 2500.00 or more! P.mets are worth every penny you are willing to pay.....

                           Cheers Wade!


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## tony77tony77 (Apr 16, 2007)

how much do a 5" female go for now a days?


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## bushbuster (Apr 16, 2007)

Wadew said:


> I think a good sharpei is still 2500.00 or more! P.mets are worth every penny you are willing to pay.....
> 
> Cheers Wade!


They can't GIVE Sharpeis away out here, lol


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## monitormonster (Apr 16, 2007)

Hmmm, no thanx. I dont see myself paying more than $100 for any T.....

You can get an adult female Singapore Blue (Cyriopagopus sp) for $125, and I think they look very similar to the P. Metallica.....


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## Beardo (Apr 17, 2007)

> You can get an adult female Singapore Blue (Cyriopagopus sp) for $125, and I think they look very similar to the P. Metallica.....


Nope, not even close lol. I'm guessing you've never seen either in person.


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## Stylopidae (Apr 17, 2007)

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showpost.php?p=865812&postcount=356
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showpost.php?p=847101&postcount=1385

Other than the fact they both are somewhat blue colored, I can't figure out how they even look similar.

Now, if you had compared Cyriopagopus sp. blue to H. lividium I could see that.


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## Midnightrdr456 (Apr 17, 2007)

yeah they both have blue, and are beautiful but thats about it.  P metallica is much more or a vibrant bright blue, while c. sp "blue" have a deeper almost violet color often.  Yeah if you want a nice looking spider thats not as expensive Cyriopagopus sp. "blue" is a nice choice, but I don't think it quite compares to P Metallica in terms of stunning beauty.


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## Tunedbeat (Apr 17, 2007)

*...*



Midnightrdr456 said:


> I don't think it quite compares to P Metallica in terms of stunning beauty.


You ain't kiddin, i stare at my metallica everyday, it's so da** pretty. People who had never owned one, will never experience its true beauty.


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## Silence1984 (Apr 17, 2007)

*Slash the market =)*

What if someone in the US dropped $800 on a male and female, mated them, then sold the slings at half price of what they are now...say $150 or something.  That still seems like a ton of profit to me and would help the availabilty out a ton.  I really have no clue what Im talking about but it seems like a good idea :?


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## Anastasia (Apr 17, 2007)

Silence1984 said:


> What if someone in the US dropped $800 on a male and female, mated them, then sold the slings at half price of what they are now...say $150 or something.  That still seems like a ton of profit to me and would help the availabilty out a ton.  I really have no clue what Im talking about but it seems like a good idea :?


and u think them spiders so easy to breed, eh
look, if they multiply like flys wud dat be so much fun?


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## Midnightrdr456 (Apr 17, 2007)

you can try, but finding a male and female for sale will be almost impossible.  Then you need to luck out in breeding them, not necessarily a sure thing.


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## Silence1984 (Apr 17, 2007)

<==*requests his two cents back*  =)


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