# sexing Scolopendra sp.?



## ToeCheCKs (Apr 21, 2013)

i was just wondering if there is a method to figure out what gender these centipedes are. i just got one and am quite interested in trying to mate these one day.

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## nepenthes (Apr 21, 2013)

Drown 'em, search the myripod forum for drowning methods for sexing. You will stumble across something.

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## Ojantriadi (Apr 22, 2013)

*try to help about sexing*

this is my own research about my own scolopendra...
I has 3, catched from wild, one of them is layed eggs(but now she ate her own eggs, I don't kno why)
this is...



easily, we can distinguish the body of the vertebra. females have the same width segments, whereas for males will always alternately large and small.
It's all just my own research, wether is right or wrong, just trying to share.

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## Amoeba (Apr 22, 2013)

Really interesting Ojan. It would be pretty nice if pedes could be sexed without the good ol' drown and pop. Anybody else noticed this or who has popped their pedes and has a good camera to demonstrate this?

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## ToeCheCKs (Apr 22, 2013)

thank you ojan! i wasnt going to to try to drown my first pede. i like it to much to do something like that to it! but i will definitly try your method. does the drowning method kill the centipede?? i really know nothing about it! i just got my first centipede this weekend.

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## Ojantriadi (Apr 22, 2013)

*thank you *

The results of my own photos, because I happen to have one of the spawn.
I do not know if there is another method that is more effective, because in Indonesia are not many people who make a centipede as a pet, but I am interested, for that I joined.
observation was quite accurate at least in my opinion, as one of the three that I have is male, and the other two were females, when we got females that lay eggs, will be easy to see the similarities in the body to the other two, and I was lucky because there was a male I have, so I could do the sex difference.
I want to know other methods, can you tell me?

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## nepenthes (Apr 22, 2013)

If you searched the forum you would find out that its perfectly okay for centipedes to be drowned. They recover with no adverse affects. Im not disregarding Ojantriadi , but don't take it as concrete. If I get a chance I will look closer at on my centipede but I have not observed any differences, (not that I was looking for them).

As far as sexing, knocking them out is part of the deal. You basically submerge them for a short period and once they stop moving you have a short period to mess around with them. You can "squeeze" out the reproductive organs of the centipede. PM me and I can send you a link some one shared with me on the forums about sexing.

.

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## Ojantriadi (Apr 22, 2013)

yeah, it's okay, it's just share..any effective methods will be more important...

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## ToeCheCKs (Apr 22, 2013)

according to your method ojan mine is a female. i was lucky enough that she decided to hang her back end out of her hole for a bit. but if the drowning method works and will not harm my centipede i would like to try it. i want to mate these interesting creatures eventually! and i dont want to be breaking up fights while im at it........ hahaha

---------- Post added 04-23-2013 at 12:15 AM ----------

i found a video about this drowning method www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRc1BXZuelo seems like it is easy to do. but my centipede is 1/10th of the size of the one in the video. does the size of the pede matter?? or should i wait untill mine gets a bit older before i try it??

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## nepenthes (Apr 23, 2013)

Id wait for it to get towards maturity (larger), IMO that just makes sense. Would probably make it easier to sex.

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## Insektzuchen (Apr 23, 2013)

*Water Boarding of Centipedes is Cruel, Dangerous & Unnecessary*



Ojantriadi said:


> yeah, it's okay, it's just share..any effective methods will be more important...


It is totally unnecessary to drown your centipede, to render it unconscious, in order to check if its male or female.  You may end up with a dead or brain-damaged centipede.
A much safer and effective method is anesthetizing the pede using CO-2 gas that's found in those cans of compressed gas dust removers.  One good brand is American Recorder CO-2 Dust & Particle Remover.  They come with CO-2 cartridges.  You put the pede in a zip-lock bag, spray the bag full of CO-2, and when you see it go to sleep (unconscious) take it out.  Then you quickly flip the pede on its back and SOFTLY press down on the last body segment between the terminal legs.  If a small appendage pops out, it's male.  If there is nothing, it's female.  DO NOT press down hard or for a prolonged period like the idiot does in the YouTube video cited in a previous post.  You can cause permanent damage to their reproductive organs that way, :sarcasm:  not to mention, inflict a lot of pain.  Sort of, the centipede equivalent of getting kicked in the nutz.   A little common sense goes a long way.


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## zonbonzovi (Apr 23, 2013)

I beg to differ regarding the "drowning method"...it has been shown to work with no ill after effects.  Recovery is slower but I assume that is because the spiracles become completely immersed in water(the tracheae are more or less already in this state).  I've noted other animals with similar recovery...osmosis is pretty remarkable.  In addition, it can allow more time for examination.  That said, I prefer CO2.  Do be careful with compressed gas as some flavors have additives and I certainly can't vouch for what they are.  Personally, I use a whip cream canister in conjunction with the CO2 cartridges.  Once the animal is unconscious it can be placed ventral side up and and the organs can be everted, as you said, gently. by rolling the finger or spoon or whatever down the length of the 2nd to last sternite, from the direction of head towards terminals.  That's when it gets interesting and confusing as genders can look very similar(even if you've stared at many pics of 'pede genitalia).  There are features that only females and males have, respectively.  I wouldn't be too hard on the "idiot" as it was his first time and he at least had the guts to try what many others have turned their nose up at despite having it explained to them in detail.  

Additionally, and carefully, the reactions to one another of placing two 'pedes in a confined space can be revealing.  I'm at work so not much time for details but this is an interesting and vital discussion if we collectively wish to establish a more meaningful centipede breeding "hobby".  

To the best of my knowledge, there are very few species that can be sexed externally.  More on that later, too...

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## nepenthes (Apr 23, 2013)

I thoroughly enjoy your posts zonbonzovi!

Thanks for taking the time to share!

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## Galapoheros (Apr 24, 2013)

Totally there with JohnBon, Imo, deprivation of O2 via water-boarding isn't significantly more dangerous than the CO2 method though the hillbilly water method obviously appears more stressful, so it will appear to humans.  A theory I can think of is that they have evolved to endure flash floods for some hours around riparian zones.  I had a couple of polymorpha that were under water for around 16 hours and survived.  Each sps is prob diff as far as the amount of time they can spend under water also so there is another "unknown" there.  I don't disagree that there is more risk with the drowning method, but from observation/experience, risk using the water method it's still extremely small as long as they are not forgotten sitting under water for hours.  It comes down to opinions, feelings, compassion, then not so much, and anthropomorphizing since we can't truly relate as humans.  Me ...I'm a hillbilly!  You know, stuff like this is interesting to me because it points to our relative thinking.  Many decades ago people died of plague and many other diseases.  The closer to perfect we get the more we search for what's wrong with anything ...sooner or later.  Here, we are talking about inverts that exterminators rely on killing them for a living, might be time to re-group and take another look.  Ultimately, for the fanatic, it might come to, "Hey, leave those bacteria alone you big meany!"

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## Amoeba (Apr 24, 2013)

Since you two wandered in here I'd like to ask what is the smallest pede you have popped?

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## xhexdx (Apr 24, 2013)

Insektzuchen said:


> ...not to mention, inflict a lot of pain.  Sort of, the centipede equivalent of getting kicked in the nutz.


Your source(s), please?

Last I checked, Arthropoda lacked an advanced nervous system capable of experiencing pain.



Insektzuchen said:


> A little common sense goes a long way.


*cough*



Insektzuchen said:


> ZooMed makes a product called MITE OFF that's designed for eliminating mites in reptile collections.  I read about how it works and it's ingredients and decided to take the chance and try it on a centipede and the pede's enclosure.  It states on the spray bottle that its not to be used on amphibians or arachnids.  It supposedly contains negative ions that screw up the mites.  It worked, the centipede actually enjoyed being sprayed with it and I didn't observe any adverse effects.




Could you please explain how you were able to tell that the centipede 'enjoyed' being sprayed?



zonbonzovi said:


> I beg to differ regarding the "drowning method"...it has been shown to work with no ill after effects.  Recovery is slower but I assume that is because the spiracles become completely immersed in water(the tracheae are more or less already in this state).  I've noted other animals with similar recovery...osmosis is pretty remarkable.  In addition, it can allow more time for examination.  That said, I prefer CO2.  Do be careful with compressed gas as some flavors have additives and I certainly can't vouch for what they are.  Personally, I use a whip cream canister in conjunction with the CO2 cartridges.  Once the animal is unconscious it can be placed ventral side up and and the organs can be everted, as you said, gently. by rolling the finger or spoon or whatever down the length of the 2nd to last sternite, from the direction of head towards terminals.  That's when it gets interesting and confusing as genders can look very similar(even if you've stared at many pics of 'pede genitalia).  There are features that only females and males have, respectively.  I wouldn't be too hard on the "idiot" as it was his first time and he at least had the guts to try what many others have turned their nose up at despite having it explained to them in detail.
> 
> Additionally, and carefully, the reactions to one another of placing two 'pedes in a confined space can be revealing.  I'm at work so not much time for details but this is an interesting and vital discussion if we collectively wish to establish a more meaningful centipede breeding "hobby".
> 
> To the best of my knowledge, there are very few species that can be sexed externally.  More on that later, too...


Thank you. :clap:

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## GiantVinegaroon (Apr 24, 2013)

Insektzuchen said:


> .  If a small appendage pops out, it's male.  If there is nothing, it's female.  DO NOT press down hard or for a prolonged period like the idiot does in the YouTube video cited in a previous post.


Just thought I should let you know that video is mine, if you press SOFTLY then nothing pops out, and it's a bit more complicated than whether something pops out or not to determine male or female.  Have you actually seem Scolopemdromorph genitalia?  I researched sexing these creatures for months prior to drowning and popping mine.

Also, I would like to share that she DID lay eggs months after I sexed her.  She wound up eating them(they were probably infertile anyway), but I believe you need to have functioning sex organs to be able to produce and lay eggs....food for thought.

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## Insektzuchen (Apr 24, 2013)

*A Distinction Without Difference*

Quotes from Mr. Zonbonzovi.  My retorts.


"I beg to differ regarding the "drowning method"...it has been shown to work with no ill after effects.  Recovery is slower but I assume that is because the spiracles become completely immersed in water.  ...  That said, I prefer CO2."

There is no evidence that the "drowning method" does or does not have ill after effects.  Nevertheless, you prefer CO2.  So you agree with me.


"Once the animal is unconscious it can be placed ventral side up and and the organs can be everted, as you said, gently, by rolling the finger or spoon or whatever down the length of the 2nd to last sternite, from the direction of head towards terminals."

When you said "everted", I'm assuming you meant inverted.  I used the word "gently".  You used the word "softly" to describe how to roll your finger to complete the examination.  So you agree with me on this point as well.  Conversely, GiantVinegaroon contends that doing the procedure "softly" is a waste of time.


"I wouldn't be too hard on the "idiot" as it was his first time and he at least had the guts ..." .

You suggest to cut him some slack, after all, he's a dilettante.


"Additionally, and carefully, the reactions to one another of placing two 'pedes in a confined space can be revealing."

Significantly, your last point is the most logical.  Carefully placing two pedes together and watching their reactions toward one another is the most telling of all.  Because whether you drown or gas and pop them, all that matters in the end is whether the pedes properly court one another and the female takes the spermatophore from the male, inserts it, and becomes fertilized.  Just placing two sexed centipedes together means nothing.  They could simply ignore one another.


You begged to differ, yet, we're in agreement on all major points.  :?

Cheers.


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## zonbonzovi (Apr 24, 2013)

Insektzuchen: I was only in disagreement on your having issue with the drowning method...you are correct that we have no concrete evidence that it does or does not do harm(the very same goes for CO2).  I'm not a trained scientist so I can only rely on powers of observation and occasionally the rare peer reviewed paper to back any claims.  That goes for most of the invertebrate hobby, no?  I prefer CO2 because immersing a centipede in water is time consuming in my experience, especially if you're dealing with groups of animals.  With practice and a quick dose of CO2 the process can take mere minutes.

I did actually mean "everted", as stated, which refers to turning the organ inside out.  I also used your word, "gently", as was intended.  What GiantVinegaroon chooses is up to him...I like to think that this small sector of the greater hobby is in infancy and welcomes different perspectives, at least until the pudding is proven

I'm not sure why you're seemingly intent on creating a competition out of what is supposedly a shared passion amongst like minded individuals.  As I'm sure your aware, the term "dilettante" applies to everyone here to different degrees.  I'm certainly no expert and even they make flubs.  My interests don't lie in pissing contests but sharing methodologies and strategies with the few people that actually care about this subject.  Maybe I'm reading your commentary in the wrong light?  If so, my apologies.  I peacefully lay down my sword 

Regarding experience, I've tested the method of placing two centipedes of unknown sex together many times and it has been highly successful in determining at the very least if they are of the same sex.  If not, it's rather plain to see via physical reactions whom is whom: at first it's unnerving because (I'm assuming here) you have two predators that see only a threat and have not picked up on chemical cues.  After a couple minutes I've noticed terminal to terminal shaking in which I assume same sex.  It's not always the case as the everted organs will reveal but pretty close.  If male and female, however, a male will be the one doing the terminal shaking and in moments the female will begin tapping at them with her antennae.  For me, this has been 100% effective(kudos go to Galapaheros on his observations).  After that, it can be 45 min. to a few hours of "courting" until the spermatophore is placed in the webbing and the female takes it up.

On external sexual dimorphism: S. morsitans is the most obvious example due to the "angular" terminals on a male(?...memory is faulty).  I know there are more but I'm drawing a blank right now.   

Amoeba: the smallest I've had success with is a 3.5" female polymorpha.  My camera doesn't capture genitalia on an animal smaller than that...wish I had a local enthusiast with DSLR macro capabilities.  I wonder, as well, at what stage of growth the organs are developed enough to make a determiniation?  I think we've discussed here that 50-75% of full size is reasonable and I don't recall what, if anything, Lewis' book says about that.  

Galapoheros: if your methods & observations are hillbilly then pass the moonshine 

If anyone here hasn't had the opportunity to see differences in the male/female organs there is a thread still around that has a number of pics(anyone care to link if they can remember where it is...please?).  I also have some if you search: zonbonzovi's myriapod photos

Again, this is the most significant topic that we can possibly tackle in this subforum so bring on the thoughts, questions, obervations, etc because if I see another 'why isn't my pede eating, i just fed it a mouse last week' thread I may just evert my own organs and post graphic pics!

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## Nanotrev (Apr 25, 2013)

Agreed. Breeding the species we've managed to get into the US is pretty important.

I'd like to say that a comparison between male and female end segments posted here was accurate for my S. heros sexing. Both the male and female are mature and their terminals have subtle differences as well. At least that species is somewhat sexually dimorphic even if it's in the smallest of ways.


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## Insektzuchen (Apr 25, 2013)

Galapoheros said:


> Totally there with JohnBon, Imo, deprivation of O2 via water-boarding isn't significantly more dangerous than the CO2 method though the hillbilly water method obviously appears more stressful, so it will appear to humans.  A theory I can think of is that they have evolved to endure flash floods for some hours around riparian zones.  I had a couple of polymorpha that were under water for around 16 hours and survived.  Each sps is prob diff as far as the amount of time they can spend under water also so there is another "unknown" there.  I don't disagree that there is more risk with the drowning method, but from observation/experience, risk using the water method it's still extremely small as long as they are not forgotten sitting under water for hours.  It comes down to opinions, feelings, compassion, then not so much, and anthropomorphizing since we can't truly relate as humans.  Me ...I'm a hillbilly!  You know, stuff like this is interesting to me because it points to our relative thinking.  Many decades ago people died of plague and many other diseases.  The closer to perfect we get the more we search for what's wrong with anything ...sooner or later.  Here, we are talking about inverts that exterminators rely on killing them for a living, might be time to re-group and take another look.  Ultimately, for the fanatic, it might come to, "Hey, leave those bacteria alone you big meany!"



When you get around to it, could you post some new photos of your galapago-plings.

Cheers.


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## zonbonzovi (Apr 25, 2013)

Nanotrev said:


> Agreed. Breeding the species we've managed to get into the US is pretty important.
> 
> I'd like to say that a comparison between male and female end segments posted here was accurate for my S. heros sexing. Both the male and female are mature and their terminals have subtle differences as well. At least that species is somewhat sexually dimorphic even if it's in the smallest of ways.


If you have a chance I'd like to see what you're referring to.  I have a small number of the AZ heros sexed, as well, so maybe we can compare notes...


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## Insektzuchen (Apr 25, 2013)

*Mr. Lobster, you won't feel a thing when I drop you in this boiling water.*



xhexdx said:


> Your source(s), please?
> 
> Last I checked, Arthropoda lacked an advanced nervous system capable of experiencing pain.



If you ever get a chance in your life to eat crab or lobster, watch the reaction of the crustacean as it's dropped -- alive -- in boiling water.  *cough*  A little common sense ... .


Cheers


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## zonbonzovi (Apr 25, 2013)

*Mod note*

The subject was "sexing Scolopendra sp.?" and I expect it to stay that way.  I'm in a FOUL mood today and won't hesitate to send folks packing if they can't keep it on topic.  This is NOT a request!


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## Amoeba (Apr 25, 2013)

Hm hm hm I'm thinking I'm going to have to drown and pop one of the 3"ers crawling around here just to practice will report back with results.


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## Ojantriadi (May 9, 2013)

I admit that my method is not effective because yesterday I realized that the male in my photo is laying egg...so confuse, lol 
another comment and advice may help...
I need an advice for treatment for centipede that keep eggs


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## zonbonzovi (May 9, 2013)

Leave her be as much as you can.  If the moisture level in her enclosure is adequate you won't need to do anything else but be patient with her.  No offering of food is necessary...just leave her in a secure, quiet, dark place away from vibrations/human activity  Good luck and let us know how it turns out!


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## Ojantriadi (May 9, 2013)

okay, I'll do it...
I have other female before that layed eggs, but in a week she ate the eggs, how it can be happened?


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