# Laws against tarantulas as pets



## SkyeSpider (May 30, 2004)

A buddy of mine is trying to talk me into moving to Hawaii with him, but one thing is holding me back. Can I bring my tarantulas with me? I'm having trouble finding the information on this.

What states don't allow pets like these? Which ones require permits?

The confusing part is when I start to consider centipedes, scorpions, millipedes, and mantids! 

-Bryan


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## sunnymarcie (May 30, 2004)

Just took a shot at google.com
Start here:   http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dq/animal.htm

Didn't read through it but its a place to start.


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## Professor T (May 30, 2004)

TheEternal said:
			
		

> A buddy of mine is trying to talk me into moving to Hawaii with him, but one thing is holding me back. Can I bring my tarantulas with me? I'm having trouble finding the information on this.
> 
> What states don't allow pets like these? Which ones require permits?
> 
> ...


Bryan,

Hawaii has strict regulations on tarantulas and other animals (worse than Florida):

Persons possessing illegal animals are subject to stiff penalties, including fines of up to $200,000 and up to three years in jail. Individuals with illegal pets are encouraged to voluntarily turn them in under the Amnesty Program. Anyone with information or knowledge of illegal animals in Hawaii is asked to call the department's PEST HOTLINE at 586-PEST(7378) or the Plant Quarantine Branch at 832-0566.

###

For more information, contact:

Janelle Saneishi
Public Information Officer
Hawaii Department of Agriculture 
Phone: (808) 973-9560
E-mail: hdoa.info@hawaii.gov


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## SkyeSpider (May 30, 2004)

Professor T said:
			
		

> For more information, contact:
> 
> Janelle Saneishi
> Public Information Officer
> ...


Thanks for the info! I just sent her an email 

-Bryan


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## manville (May 30, 2004)

I dont think any countries has stricter regulations about pets than Singapore.


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## SkyeSpider (May 31, 2004)

Here's the reply I got:


> Thank you for your e-mail to the Hawaii Department of Agriculture.
> 
> Tarantulas are illegal to possess in Hawaii. *It is a Class C felony import an illegal animal into the State. *We hope that you will be able to find another interesting hobby should you make the move to Hawaii.
> 
> ...


Guess I won't ever be moving there.   

-Bryan


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## Henry Kane (May 31, 2004)

What a drag Bryan. Well, you can always vacation there at least.
Thanks for sharing the info bro.

Lates.

Atrax


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## xBurntBytheSunx (May 31, 2004)

why in the hell would they be illegal?


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## Pixie (May 31, 2004)

Hawaii is VERY protective about their natural flora and fauna.  One can't bring in any new species that could possibly populate the islands by human error or stupidity.

Considering the climate, it would be quite easy for escaped animals to reproduce in the wild.  The thing they want to avoid at all costs.

Considering that in some U.S. states there are wild iguanas and Ts that have established wild populations, it's not a unwaranted fear.

It sucks for hobbyists but I do understand why they have set up the laws the way they are.

Pixie

P.S. The T example I am referring to are b. vagans that apparently can be found in Florida.  Can't remember if it was on Discovery or Animal Planet, but I saw an interesting documentary about this species having been what they called a "problem" (eye of the beholder of course  ).  They were now common in orange groves to the point that the workers were quite scared of them.  It was thought that this population was started from a few escapees out of personal collections that managed to establish themselves in the area.  I don't know what the situation is now as they were aggressively treating the "problem" during the documentary.


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## FryLock (May 31, 2004)

Italy is getting some law's just as bad this showed up on a other forum (cant link its member's only but im sure some here are singed up to it)

Too much problems here. Maybe you can help. The "terrible" Law that
deems spiders as "killers to humans" in Italy is going ahead ... a
list of species was made today, with a lot of tarantula genera
included on it.

Acanthoscurria
Haplopelma
Sericopelma
Poecilotheria
Harpactirella
Pamphobeteus
Aphonopelma
Brachypelma
Theraphosa

Can You help me? I'm trying to find some article (abstracts/books)
where tarantuas are described as not being killers of humans. We
both know they can be harmful, but the Committee that is studing
this is getting unreasonable ... they want to include the above
list as "deadly spider" to have a law passed that will prevent
them from being imported and kept in captivity for study, education
or otherwise.

Matteo Grotto (in sorrow)
http://www.aracnofilia.org/


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## FryLock (May 31, 2004)

Just posted a follow up to this on a diff forum so im posting it here too so it answers some Q's off the bat so to speak.

Berlusconi is a real piece of work no doubt about that, however the Italian government committee that is looking in to this sound no better they cite the fact the there is little evidence of any big danger to human life from Theraphosid spiders as there own justification (i.e there nothing to say there NOT dangerous too!!) what arseholes!! lets hope they can get this thrown out in Italy it would be a big blow to keepers of exotics all over the EU as many countries look to others to model there own laws on if they decide to legislate on something and do not have laws covering something.


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## FryLock (May 31, 2004)

Pixie said:
			
		

> Hawaii is VERY protective about their natural flora and fauna.  One can't bring in any new species that could possibly populate the islands by human error or stupidity.
> 
> Considering the climate, it would be quite easy for escaped animals to reproduce in the wild.  The thing they want to avoid at all costs.
> 
> ...


Quite a lot of stuff as taken a hold in Hawaii day geckos and few cham's i believe but the FL B.vag's are not spreading (at least not at any speed) and are being used by AR nutters as bad press on keeping exotics correct me if im wrong on tho's two.


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## Drosera123 (May 31, 2004)

What kind of laws are there in Singapore? I don't see a problem with trades or sales to europe, but someone contacted me from Singapore wanting to buy soem roaches. I don't want to get in trouble or anything.
Steve


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## Pixie (May 31, 2004)

FryLock said:
			
		

> Quite a lot of stuff as taken a hold in Hawaii day geckos and few cham's i believe but the FL B.vag's are not spreading (at least not at any speed) and are being used by AR nutters as bad press on keeping exotics correct me if im wrong on tho's two.


If some species have already taken hold in Hawaii, then you have your reason as to why they are so protective!  Even with the laws it still happened...  Can you really blame them for wanting to protect their distinct flora and fauna and to try and prevent it from being tainted by stupid humans?

Geez!  We've already messed up enough parts of the world in this respect!!!  One place is holding firm in stopping it on their turf (as much as possible) and we get all upset because we can't bring our spiders and herps, etc.  

The introduction of new species can greatly affect the balance of their wildlife.  Look at Australia.

Pixie

P.S.  I am in no means a know-it-all on this subject but the LOGIC of it is rather simple!


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## da_illest (May 31, 2004)

manville said:
			
		

> I dont think any countries has stricter regulations about pets than Singapore.


how's that? do they allow common house pets like dogs, birds, monkeys, camels and stuff like that?


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## Brian S (May 31, 2004)

*stay away from states like hawaii*

I wouldn't live in a place that wouldn't let me keep my Ts and scorps. I hope that laws like that never get enacted in the continental US.


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## Overmenneske (May 31, 2004)

Pixie said:
			
		

> The introduction of new species can greatly affect the balance of their wildlife. Look at Australia.


Yep, that is probably the best example. They are struggling with everything from cats to mice.

Does this mean there are no tarantula species native to Hawaii?


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## T_DORKUS (May 31, 2004)

Pixie said:
			
		

> The introduction of new species can greatly affect the balance of their wildlife.  Look at Australia.
> 
> Pixie


Another good example is the european carp- they're all over the US.


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## Ultimate Instar (Jun 1, 2004)

IIRC, I believe that the Jackson's chameleons were established in Hawaii from legally imported specimens that were sold in pet stores back in the 60s.  I really don't think that they're responsible for much ecologic damage although I heard some rumors that they were being blamed for eating a rare nocturnal snail.  Of course, chameleons are strictly diurnal so they were NOT the culprits.  However, it does bring up the odd question of possibly killing Jackson's chameleons in Hawaii while trying to save them in East Africa where they are an endangered species. 

Karen N.


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## ShaunHolder (Jun 1, 2004)

In all respects, we are not messing anything up really. Everything we do is part of how nature works. Things we do are considered unatural, but its not ture. Our intelligence is part of our nature, and our tampering part of it. Be it taking creatures out of one enviornment and putting them into another, or genetically altering sea monkeys.   

 I do agree that they have the right to outlaw T's to protect thier land. Still, I find it facinating when something like that happens. I say bring a truck load of them in and populate them there on purpose. I would just be interested in the results, not so much as doing it to rebel against haiwaii's laws.


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## harwin (Jun 1, 2004)

Singapore Agri-Food and Veterinary Authority

For a City which is also a country I think they are more concern about the safety of the population (almost all live in high rise apartment flats therefore high density) rather than the local animal habitats. (they barely have any wild environment worth mentioning other than the ocean).


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## wulf04 (Jun 1, 2004)

Hawaii is also an extreme left wing anti-gun state.Yet another reason not to move there!


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## Jeri (Jun 1, 2004)

The same thing holds with Guam. They brought in the Brown Tree Snake to help with the rodent problem, and the nearly annihalated the bird population. At least that's what they say. I spent 15 months there and only saw two of these snakes. Both dead. There are lots of birds there. At least there were in '94-'95.

Jeri


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## Wade (Jun 1, 2004)

I believe the snakes were accidently released in Guam as stowaways in cargo. Since many planes fly from Guam to Hawaii, they seach the airports routinely for any signs of them.

What's misunderstood about this situation is that it's not that there's something magically evil about brown tree snakes, it's just that this was an island without snakes where endemic bird species have no evolved defenses against snakes in general. Birds that migrate from other islands where there are snakes wouldn't be effected. Common corn snakes, could case the same type of problem. 

It makes sense to try to keep exotics off of islands, these ecosystems are extremly delicate. I have to roll my eyes when people start harping on introduced species in Florida, however. We've gone and drained the swamps, built roads, developed the hell out of the place, planted non-native plants, turned huge tracts of land into orange groves and golf courses. The idea that pet spiders pose a threat is absurd. It's a little late to close THAT barn door.

Wade


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## ShaunHolder (Jun 1, 2004)

I agree 100%. I really enjoy how humans will talk about how forigen ogranisims and how they are a threat to the ecosystem, when we are destroying it every day for our convienence. 

 As far as bird populations dying out, I think it's good to perserve species, but its also interesting to see how other creatures will co-evolve with outside introduced species. The laws, however, aren't outrageous in the least bit.


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## Pixie (Jun 1, 2004)

We are a very destructive species and IMO we are somewhat individually intelligent but if one studies us as a species, I wouldn't qualify us a very intelligent, far from it.

One of the best descriptions that I've heard of the human species was from the movie "The Matrix" where agent Smith compares us to viruses.

So by some people's definition, since we've already destructed so much for various reasons, why not destroy it all?!

Lovely point of view!

Pixie


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## Wade (Jun 1, 2004)

Nope, you missed the point. Golf courses and orange groves do not count as natural areas that need to be protected from exotic pets. The idea that natural areas are in some sort of perfect balance and that any introduced species is going thow throw everything is hogwash. In most cases, the only reason these introduced species get a toe hold in the first place is that the natural predators have already been swept away. Few introduced species that become true pests (either to native species or humans) come from the pet trade. Most are either deliberately released in a misguided attempt at biological pest control (Such as Bufo murinus in Florida, Hawaii, Australia) or else accidental imports like fire ants and tiger mosquitoes. The pet trade gets singled out because it's an easy target, not because it's a real threat.

Wade


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## Ultimate Instar (Jun 1, 2004)

A while ago, I posted a message in the Watering Hole asking:  If you owned a private island that resembled Hawaii, what animals would you put on it?  I don't know what responses were posted because the Arachnoboards crashed the next day and everything was lost.  Personally, I would put chameleons, poison dart frogs and Galapagos tortoises on my "island".  Hmm, sounds like a good sim game.  

Karen N.


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## AWS (Jun 1, 2004)

Tarantulas are illegal in New York City (legal in the rest of the state).


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## FryLock (Jun 1, 2004)

AWS said:
			
		

> Tarantulas are illegal in New York City (legal in the rest of the state).


AWS a lot of herp's where banned too in NYC :? i remember reading, were facing this kind of crap over boids in the UK right now lead by the AR D***s lobbying the govenment luckly were starting to fight back now.


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## sansoucie (Jun 1, 2004)

I got my T from a pet shop here in town. They take in pets that are unwanted and give credit. Last month they got a 17" long "pet" alligator. I got my first T from my stepdaughter's ex boyfriend. An Indian Ornamental that his mother said either got given away or RELEASED OUTSIDE. 

We apparently have MANY people who release "pet" animals and don't care if they live or die. I can see why SOME laws are put into effect for the protection of the animals. Other laws totally banning thheir sale/keep seems kind of excessive.IMHO.


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## ShaunHolder (Jun 1, 2004)

Humans are like everything else part of natures design. We do change things while making things for ourselves, you viewing it as destroying in a negative light is just part of your human bias. Things are meant to be destroyed, and as far as natural order goes, the strongest survive, and the weak will die out. It's true that we destroy things that have been working for thousands of years, and there are things remain benificial to us. 

 I think the matrix comparing us to a virus was amusing, but still silly to say in the least. I think we think to highly of ourselves when we say that we have the power to destroy what whatever we want. If we went about killing off everything we wouldn't be able to survive. We do have to protect other life, not just because we want to, but because we depend on it. 

 On the other hand, the people that believe we should protect certain wildlife aren't wrong. One way of looking at it; if enough people feel like somethings worth protecting, then it deserves to live. 

 I suppose my point is this; Humans can not do something that is unnatural. We make change, and change changes us. Whats wrong and whats right is only something we as humans have invented. While inside our own limit's we do have certain responsiblities, but I think it's important not to forget how fragile we are. We wouldn't be here on this planet if we couldn't co-exist with other life. As long as we stay smart we will survive. As a race I think we have been highly successful, but we can't compare to other things that have been living here much longer.

 Anyway... I dont think I'll rant any longer about my views on natural order. Instead I'll just say that theres nothing wrong with a state outlawing foriegn organisims. It only takes a few isolated instances to change an entire system. Things will always balance off, but it's understandable for them to want to keep things the way they are for as long as they can. People fear change afterall.


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## FryLock (Jun 2, 2004)

I look at it this way even if every person on the planet took out time and money to keep and breed/grow just ONE species (it matters not if its animal or plant of fungus you name it) we would still lose a hell of lot species say over the next 100 years and the would be nothing anyone could do about it, at the end of the day as ShaunHolder as said its only things that MATTER to us in one way or another that get preferential treatment from us for example why is a B.smithi any more important to the world and even man kind as a whole then say one of the true spiders that gets lumped under the name of "house spider" because we like its colours of course, personly other then rare case's like small islands i think the pet gets targeted unfairly like Wade said it sounds like good pseudoscience to feed the public with about the dangers of exotic's by AR scaremongers "OMG if tho's giant (insert animal type) get lose in are country no one will be able let there kid's play outside again"


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