# cobra-imitating snakes in alabama?



## ilovebugs (Sep 1, 2007)

Hey everyone, 
it's been a while since I've been on, been pretty busy with work.

Last sunday I overheard a man at my church describing a snake he had killed in his yard, so I kinda jumped in the conversation to find out more details. 

He said it was black, (completely I beleive) it raised it's head and opened it's jaw all the way exposing it's white mouth. Then he said it's neck got really flat and wide (like a cobra as he described it) 
After it was dead, he looked in the mouth, but didn't see any fangs so unless he just didn't see them I don't think it was really a cobra, but it's still strange.

I know we have black racers and rat snakes but I didn't know that to be characteristics of either. 

I told him I would ask around (meaning here) and see what I could find out.

thanks.


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## UrbanJungles (Sep 1, 2007)

It's most likely a poor Eastern Hognose snake.


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## ChainsawMonkey (Sep 1, 2007)

Cottonmouths and Hognose snakes. Hoggies flatten out their throat sometimes to make itself appear bigger. But it was most likely a cottonmouth because of your description. Brown to almost completely black, have a vividly white lining in the mouth. It open its mouth wide to deter predators. Oh, and they are a highly venomous snake. Also refered to as water moccasin or just moccasin, illegal to keep without a permit.


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## Ted (Sep 1, 2007)

UrbanJungles said:


> It's most likely a poor Eastern Hognose snake.


bingo.
and personally i would never try to identify a snake described by a churchgoer.
those people have some very wild imaginations.


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## beetleman (Sep 1, 2007)

UrbanJungles said:


> It's most likely a poor Eastern Hognose snake.


i was thinking the same thing


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## pitbulllady (Sep 1, 2007)

It was almost certainly a harmless Eastern Hognose snake, which are often found in a jet-black color phase in the South(in fact, the only ones I last saw in the wild were melanistics), and they do put on a defensive display like you described, spreading out a quite-impressive cobra-like hood and opening the mouth.  It's all pure bluff, though, as they will not bite and normally will follow up with playing 'possum if the threat still lingers.  I'm hoping that the ignoramus only THOUGHT he'd killed it, and it just got up and crawled away after everyone left, but I know that's some really wishful thinking.

Not all church-goers are so ignorant or just plain stupid when it comes to snakes.  I attend church, and I also keep snakes.  Our preacher and his wife are both rather fond of snakes, and no, we are not one of those churches who practice "snake handling" as a test of faith.  One of our other church members had me release a couple of Black Ratsnakes in his garage last year, after a mouse invasion, so he has learned enough to recognize a harmless species and appreciate their pest control benefits.  I've found that when it comes to snakes, the non-religious or non-church-goers tend to have the same ratio of nutcases and idiots who refuse to be educated or believe that snakes are not all deadly, filthy creatures who are out to harm us as do people who do attend worship services.

pitbulllady


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## ilovebugs (Sep 1, 2007)

pitbulllady said:


> I'm hoping that the ignoramus only THOUGHT he'd killed it, and it just got up and crawled away after everyone left, but I know that's some really wishful thinking.


So yea, I'm thinking that once the head is separated from the body it can't play possum anymore...  but thats just my opinion ;P 

Thanks for the ID everyone.  Hognose snakes must not be very common around here, as I don't recall hearing of or seeing any before.

and just to throw it out there, I don't condone the killing of snakes especially non-venomous snakes.  when I was growing up we killed copperheads on our property and left anything else (they are the only venomous we've ever found here) 


and on another side note, my brother in law killed a rattlesnake at his girlfriends house last week. I helped him skin, made a science lesson of it and then I cooked it. it was really good. and I felt like a real outdoors man, living off the land and whatnot


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## Drachenjager (Sep 1, 2007)

pitbulllady said:


> It was almost certainly a harmless Eastern Hognose snake, which are often found in a jet-black color phase in the South(in fact, the only ones I last saw in the wild were melanistics), and they do put on a defensive display like you described, spreading out a quite-impressive cobra-like hood and opening the mouth.  It's all pure bluff, though, as they will not bite and normally will follow up with playing 'possum if the threat still lingers.  I'm hoping that the ignoramus only THOUGHT he'd killed it, and it just got up and crawled away after everyone left, but I know that's some really wishful thinking.
> 
> Not all church-goers are so ignorant or just plain stupid when it comes to snakes.  I attend church, and I also keep snakes.  Our preacher and his wife are both rather fond of snakes, and no, we are not one of those churches who practice "snake handling" as a test of faith.  One of our other church members had me release a couple of Black Ratsnakes in his garage last year, after a mouse invasion, so he has learned enough to recognize a harmless species and appreciate their pest control benefits.  I've found that when it comes to snakes, the non-religious or non-church-goers tend to have the same ratio of nutcases and idiots who refuse to be educated or believe that snakes are not all deadly, filthy creatures who are out to harm us as do people who do attend worship services.
> 
> pitbulllady



thanks , saved me from posting that lol



anyway yeah it sounds like a hog nose snake or as we called them back home "spreading adders" lol its not an adder but it does spread lol
they are quite intresting critters if you mess wiht them they throw a great cobra immatation and then they will puke and roll over and play dead lol


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## Ted (Sep 1, 2007)

pitbulllady said:


> Not all church-goers are so ignorant or just plain stupid when it comes to snakes.  I attend church, and I also keep snakes.  Our preacher and his wife are both rather fond of snakes, and no, we are not one of those churches who practice "snake handling" as a test of faith.  One of our other church members had me release a couple of Black Ratsnakes in his garage last year, after a mouse invasion, so he has learned enough to recognize a harmless species and appreciate their pest control benefits.  I've found that when it comes to snakes, the non-religious or non-church-goers tend to have the same ratio of nutcases and idiots who refuse to be educated or believe that snakes are not all deadly, filthy creatures who are out to harm us as do people who do attend worship services.
> 
> pitbulllady


interesting experiences you've had.
unfortunately i feel it may be a fluke or geographical..as far as my experiences  go, i have never met a christian yet who knew the first thing about science.
i guess everyones experiences are different.
good to know there are some who take the time to put away centuries old fears and learn about how snakes arent evil.


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## ilovebugs (Sep 2, 2007)

Ted said:


> good to know there are some who take the time to put away centuries old fears and learn about how snakes arent evil.


yea, a friend at work was telling me about this wild game cookout at a church (they served everything from deer and turkey to snakes and turtles)
he said there was this old man who was going down the line, and when offered some rattlesnake he got really offended and was like "were not supposed to be eating snakes! were supposed to be at war with them!" 

I don't know what bible he reads, never seen it in mine, and I've been catching and keeping snakes since I was 5. 

I'm a christian, an I love science and learning about it. God invented science, it's not evil, it's amazing and logical. Although many times man tries to make it  illogical for his own gain. 

but yea, thats another time and place I suppose. (seems I always get into these here lol.)


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## Ted (Sep 2, 2007)

ilovebugs said:


> yea, a friend at work was telling me about this wild game cookout at a church (they served everything from deer and turkey to snakes and turtles)
> he said there was this old man who was going down the line, and when offered some rattlesnake he got really offended and was like "were not supposed to be eating snakes! were supposed to be at war with them!"
> 
> I don't know what bible he reads, never seen it in mine, and I've been catching and keeping snakes since I was 5.
> ...


lol..man..i could not and would not eat a turtle, or a snake 
but good to hear you are an opened minded christian.


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## Drachenjager (Sep 2, 2007)

Ted said:


> interesting experiences you've had.
> unfortunately i feel it may be a fluke or geographical..as far as my experiences  go, i have never met a christian yet who knew the first thing about science.
> i guess everyones experiences are different.
> good to know there are some who take the time to put away centuries old fears and learn about how snakes arent evil.


really? you never met a Christian who was an electrician, hvac tech , waste water plant operator, doctor, pharmacist, chemist ect? All these require a bit of scientific knowledge. Also , check out Dr. Marion Hagler's stats. He is my cousin , and i know his stance on Christianity...


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## ilovebugs (Sep 2, 2007)

Ted said:


> lol..man..i could not and would not eat a turtle, or a snake
> but good to hear you are an opened minded christian.


never had turtle either, seems like it would be really weird, but I hear there are 7 types of meat in them and that they are good.

and I've just eaten that one snake, it was different than any kind of meat I've ever had. nothing like chicken. I want to say it reminded me of fish as far as the  texture of it. you really should try it if you ever have a chance.


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## Ted (Sep 2, 2007)

Drachenjager said:


> really? you never met a Christian who was an electrician, hvac tech , waste water plant operator, doctor, pharmacist, chemist ect? All these require a bit of scientific knowledge. Also , check out Dr. Marion Hagler's stats. He is my cousin , and i know his stance on Christianity...


well..i shoulda said ''natural science''.
i never asked what they did for a living.


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## Ted (Sep 2, 2007)

ilovebugs said:


> never had turtle either, seems like it would be really weird, but I hear there are 7 types of meat in them and that they are good.
> 
> and I've just eaten that one snake, it was different than any kind of meat I've ever had. nothing like chicken. I want to say it reminded me of fish as far as the  texture of it. you really should try it if you ever have a chance.


aaarrgh!
nooo way! 
i'm not eating anything that eats rodents.
besides..it would mean that someone killed the snake...i dont want to support that.


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## David_F (Sep 2, 2007)

Ted said:


> interesting experiences you've had.
> unfortunately i feel it may be a fluke or geographical..as far as my experiences  go, i have never met a christian yet who knew the first thing about science.
> i guess everyones experiences are different.
> good to know there are some who take the time to put away centuries old fears and learn about how snakes arent evil.


You must move in very small circles.  I have relatives and acquaintances of various christian denominations (even Pentecostal  ) who work in bioethics organizations that make their money, and do a lot of good, basing their arguments on science.  But like you said, everyone's experiences may be different.  My advice, which is worth bugger all, is to talk to some "real christians" (whatever those are...ask anyone and you'll get a different answer ), not just the most outspoken in your community, and ask them what their views are.

Man, I'm not a christian...'bout as far from it as you can get, actually...but some of the stereotyping I see thrown toward them here is sickening.  They're no more intolerant of snakes (or anything else) than any of the various godless heathens running around sacrificing virgins and babies and whatnot.

Aaaaaand....on topic.  Yeah, I'd agree.  It was probably a hognose.  You guys got 'em so thick down there that folks are killin' the damn things and I can't find one here.  Not fair at all.


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## Ted (Sep 2, 2007)

David_F said:


> You must move in very small circles.  I have relatives and acquaintances of various christian denominations (even Pentecostal  ) who work in bioethics organizations that make their money, and do a lot of good, basing their arguments on science.  But like you said, everyone's experiences may be different.  My advice, which is worth bugger all, is to talk to some "real christians" (whatever those are...ask anyone and you'll get a different answer ), not just the most outspoken in your community, and ask them what their views are.
> 
> Man, I'm not a christian...'bout as far from it as you can get, actually...but some of the stereotyping I see thrown toward them here is sickening.  They're no more intolerant of snakes (or anything else) than any of the various godless heathens running around sacrificing virgins and babies and whatnot.
> 
> Aaaaaand....on topic.  Yeah, I'd agree.  It was probably a hognose.  You guys got 'em so thick down there that folks are killin' the damn things and I can't find one here.  Not fair at all.


at 39 i have met all kinds and types..but i suppose that the odds just are such that i have met the ones with antiquated and deep seeded fears and misconceptions about them.


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## David_F (Sep 2, 2007)

Ted said:


> at 39 i have met all kinds and types..but i suppose that the odds just are such that i have met the ones with antiquated and deep seeded fears and misconceptions about them.


I know what you mean.  It's just that stereotypes don't seem to go over really well here...unless, of course, they're pointing out the flaws in religious beliefs.  Then it's okay.  And then you've got tools like me that'll point it out when we see it....every once in a while.  Just pointing out that not every x-tian out there is like that.  

I don't know what I'm saying........

Anywho....GO HOGNOSES!


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## Ted (Sep 2, 2007)

David_F said:


> I know what you mean.  It's just that stereotypes don't seem to go over really well here...unless, of course, they're pointing out the flaws in religious beliefs.  Then it's okay.  And then you've got tools like me that'll point it out when we see it....every once in a while.  Just pointing out that not every x-tian out there is like that.
> 
> I don't know what I'm saying........
> 
> Anywho....GO HOGNOSES!


a:clap: greed!
go hognoses!!


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## ChainsawMonkey (Sep 2, 2007)

No, not all christians are like that, but my dad is an anti-serpent advocate. I love snakes, and am planning to accquire one. Despite my father's feelings, he can just deal with it. He often relays ther fact that the bible states that god cursed the snakes to crawl about on their stomachs and eat the vermin of the earth, but honestly I think God's pretty much got it covered... However, he's afraid of them because they supposedly dealt with the devil or something like that, and I look at him and often say,"Huh?" Anywho, he's terrified of snakes and honestly, there are some very large boids that scare me a little, but I don't kill every snake I see. Honestly, if God cursed them, I suppose that all that dealing with the devil stuff has been atoned for, so... Yeah.


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## pitbulllady (Sep 2, 2007)

My grandfather was about as devout a Christian as ever there was-took the Bible literally, all that-but in spite of having spent much of his life killing every snake he encountered, believing them all to be dangerous and evil things, and in spite of not having more than a third grade education(he grew up during the Depression and had to drop out of school at the age of 8 to work and help support his family, as did many people who grew up in that era), he was still an open-minded and intelligent person.  He learned, from watching and listening to me, a mere child, how to distinguish venomous from non-venomous snakes, and he learned that snakes can be very beneficial, especially to farmers like himself.  He once told me that when it became obvious that nothing was going to end my fascination with snakes, that he prayed that if it was so wrong for his granddaughter to handle these animals, that God would find a way to stop me before I got hurt or killed, and that if it WAS OK for me to be doing that, for God to open his mind to the idea.  His conclusion was that God chose the latter, and through me, a child, taught my grandfather that snakes were a vital part of Creation as much as any other animal.  My grandfather came to really appreciate their usefulness as pest controllers that worked free of charge, without the risk of putting out poisons that could harm other animals, and he especially came to value the many large Black Ratsnakes that lived on the farm.  He learned out to pick one up without getting bitten, though he did get musked on, which caused some issues with him and my grandmother, since my grandfather had no sense of smell and couldn't savor that distinct "aroma", but my grandmother sure did!  He would move snakes from one barn to another when the mice or rats got out of hand in one barn, and he forbid any of his farm workers to harm a snake, and actually did fire one man on one occasion for killing a Ratsnake.  The only time I ever heard him threaten another person with violence was over a Ratsnake that was crossing the highway out at the end of the driveway, when a driver nearly ran over my grandfather, who'd gone out to the mailbox, while trying to run over the snake.  The man rolled down the car window and yelled for my grandfather to move out of the way(in his OWN driveway), so he could run over the snake that had managed to make it to the safety of the driveway, and my grandfather let him know in no uncertain terms that he'd be facing the bad end of a shotgun if he did!  Even for someone without an education, who grew up believing that he was justified by his religion to kill all snakes, there was hope in intelligence and open-mindedness, once he was shown that what he'd believed for all of his life was not necessarily right.  If ever there is evidence that having a Christian belief automatically renders a person incapable of learning or accepting new ideas, it was my grandfather.

pitbulllady


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## ScorpDemon (Sep 2, 2007)

ChainsawMonkey said:


> Also refered to as water moccasin or just moccasin, illegal to keep without a permit.



Alabama Department of Conservation and Natural Resources regulations make it illegal to sell, offer for sale or to possess non-indigenous venomous reptiles without a permit.

In Alabama if it's native, it's legal.


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## Drachenjager (Sep 2, 2007)

what always gets me is when people say that something is this way because the Bible says so but the Bible says no such thing. Sadly most "christians" are very undereducated on what the Bible says. And that really makes them believe in what exactly???

but yeah hogsnakes are harmless and very cool. its a shame people kill them and any snake for that matter. I can sort of understnd killing venomous snakes around a house with kids but even thats not needed


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## pitbulllady (Sep 3, 2007)

Drachenjager said:


> what always gets me is when people say that something is this way because the Bible says so but the Bible says no such thing. Sadly most "christians" are very undereducated on what the Bible says. And that really makes them believe in what exactly???
> 
> but yeah hogsnakes are harmless and very cool. its a shame people kill them and any snake for that matter. I can sort of understnd killing venomous snakes around a house with kids but even thats not needed



Yes, they are indeed.  Most people also do not stop to think about how many different translations that the Bible has been through, and anyone who's ever played the child's game "Gossip" can tell you how much a phrase or word can be changed in just the course of a few minutes, in the same language, once it goes around a room just once!  The Bible has been translated over CENTURIES, through many languages by many countless people, and some of those languages had words that had no comparable word in the next language into which it was written.  I've been told by a Rabbi with whom I had an interesting conversation once, that the word to describe the creature in the Garden of Eden who tempted Eve in the original Aramaic text had no close translation in Greek or Latin, so the translators just substituted their word for "snake", because that was the closest thing that they could come up with, and it's been the bane of legless reptiles ever since.  The original text did not describe a known animal that exists today, and clearly did not mean ANY animal as we know of them, but a sapient being.  If you notice, in the Bible, where it actually DOES refer to snakes, it usually calls them by specific name, like "cobra" or "viper" or "adder", which would have all been venomous snakes common to the Middle Eastern regions, and does not refer to them as "serpents" at all.

pitbulllady


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## MizM (Sep 3, 2007)

Ted said:


> i have never met a christian yet who knew the first thing about science.


What about Christian Scientists? 

On the cobra imitation: I have a new baby gopher snake. When approached, it does the cobra stance, waves back and forth and hisses. When it strikes, it misses every time. Guess practice makes perfect! 

On the hognose thing: NOT harmless. I have a friend who was bitten, the darn thing grabbed on and masticated with the rear fangs. He thought nothing of it... until something in the snake's mouth or venom or whatever infected the wound, he ended up in the hospital for 2 weeks on intensive antibiotics.

On the Christian thing: MY Christian beliefs are to love ALL of God's creations. Even my enemies deserve forgiveness, although sometimes that's NOT and easy task!


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## Ted (Sep 3, 2007)

MizM said:


> What about Christian Scientists?


theres a such thing?
you mean like tom cruise?


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## Drachenjager (Sep 4, 2007)

Ted said:


> theres a such thing?
> you mean like tom cruise?


thats scientology ...christian science i havent delved into ...but its not just Joe Christian who happens to be an arachnologist.


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## Drachenjager (Sep 4, 2007)

MizM said:


> What about Christian Scientists?


kidding right?




MizM said:


> On the hognose thing: NOT harmless. I have a friend who was bitten, the darn thing grabbed on and masticated with the rear fangs. He thought nothing of it... until something in the snake's mouth or venom or whatever infected the wound, he ended up in the hospital for 2 weeks on intensive antibiotics.


nothing that can bite is really harmless. But even a rat snake could have cause a bad infection. not sure how your friend got bitten by a hognose snake tho...unless what yall call hognose snakes and what we call hognose snakes are differant things lol I never saw one even try to bite and i used to pick them up and get puked on by them lol now thats NOT harmless lol
but , yeah if it breaks the skin and you cant clean it up good you can get a serious infection.



MizM said:


> On the Christian thing: MY Christian beliefs are to love ALL of God's creations. Even my enemies deserve forgiveness, although sometimes that's NOT and easy task!


Yep i agree about 80% on that...after all God created satan, imported fire ants and cats


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## pitbulllady (Sep 4, 2007)

MizM said:


> What about Christian Scientists?
> 
> On the cobra imitation: I have a new baby gopher snake. When approached, it does the cobra stance, waves back and forth and hisses. When it strikes, it misses every time. Guess practice makes perfect!
> 
> ...


Was the Hognose in question a Western or an Eastern?  They DO have quite different personalities, and Westerns seem to be a bit "testier" and less likely to play dead than Easterns.  I've known several people who've been bitten by Westerns and had some definate effects afterwards actually, and ALL Hognoses do possess Duvernoy's glands and venom and enlarged rear "fangs", but I have never known an Eastern to actually bite anyone.  I suppose if it was very hungry and you've been handling a toad prior to messing with the snake, a bite is not totally beyond the realm of possiblity, but it would be extremely unlikely.  Easterns Hogs do not bite in self-defense, however, so a bite would be a case of mistaken identity and a feeding response.

pitbulllady


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## Ted (Sep 4, 2007)

pitbulllady said:


> Was the Hognose in question a Western or an Eastern?  They DO have quite different personalities, and Westerns seem to be a bit "testier" and less likely to play dead than Easterns.  I've known several people who've been bitten by Westerns and had some definate effects afterwards actually, and ALL Hognoses do possess Duvernoy's glands and venom and enlarged rear "fangs", but I have never known an Eastern to actually bite anyone.  I suppose if it was very hungry and you've been handling a toad prior to messing with the snake, a bite is not totally beyond the realm of possiblity, but it would be extremely unlikely.  Easterns Hogs do not bite in self-defense, however, so a bite would be a case of mistaken identity and a feeding response.
> 
> pitbulllady


my eastern was pleasant, and never attempted to bite.
it was a large one, and did flatten out..but maybe rolled over once, if ever.
it was funny, watching it feed..it would grab the frog by the head and sorta wrap around it..the frog would try to hop away, and the snake looked like a big spring, bouncing up and down.
on a side note..easterns arent the best for pets..their propensity to eat mainly toads and many times nothing else, makes them a risk..as food is rarely available in sufficient quantity, and unless you hibernate them slightly, will starve during winter months.
its not easy to get them to eat rodents..i tried every trick known to some of the best authorities, and mine never would.
sad though, because it was  beautiful, interesting snake.


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## Drachenjager (Sep 4, 2007)

pitbulllady said:


> Was the Hognose in question a Western or an Eastern?  They DO have quite different personalities, and Westerns seem to be a bit "testier" and less likely to play dead than Easterns.  I've known several people who've been bitten by Westerns and had some definate effects afterwards actually, and ALL Hognoses do possess Duvernoy's glands and venom and enlarged rear "fangs", but I have never known an Eastern to actually bite anyone.  I suppose if it was very hungry and you've been handling a toad prior to messing with the snake, a bite is not totally beyond the realm of possiblity, but it would be extremely unlikely.  Easterns Hogs do not bite in self-defense, however, so a bite would be a case of mistaken identity and a feeding response.
> 
> pitbulllady


they were what ever ones are native to central texas lol


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## MizM (Sep 5, 2007)

Drachenjager said:


> kidding right?


nope:
http://www.csmonitor.com/



Drachenjager said:


> Yep i agree about 80% on that...after all God created satan, imported fire ants and cats


Hiss, spit, REOW!!!


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## pitbulllady (Sep 5, 2007)

Ted said:


> my eastern was pleasant, and never attempted to bite.
> it was a large one, and did flatten out..but maybe rolled over once, if ever.
> it was funny, watching it feed..it would grab the frog by the head and sorta wrap around it..the frog would try to hop away, and the snake looked like a big spring, bouncing up and down.
> on a side note..easterns arent the best for pets..their propensity to eat mainly toads and many times nothing else, makes them a risk..as food is rarely available in sufficient quantity, and unless you hibernate them slightly, will starve during winter months.
> ...


The Eastern Hog's propensity to eat only toads could very well wind up putting it on the "Threatened" list, eventually.  The prolonged drought in much of the South has resulted in a severe drop in frog and toad populations, with no long-standing water for them to breed in.  I can't recall the last time I saw a toad, and the last Hognose I found was many years ago, and it was really thin.  Captive breeders haven't really taken to the Eastern like they have the Western, due to the difficulty in feeding Easterns, so there really isn't a big captive population, either.  Toads used to be very common here; you could find many dozen underneath any given night security light, scarfing up bugs that would be attracted to the lights, and it would be difficult to avoid running over them in the driveway at night, there were so many.  I guess the combination of agricultural pesticides and drought has really put a hurt on the amphibian populations of many areas, and with it, a major dent in the populations of predators that feed on them.  Knowing that makes the killing of an Eastern Hognose snake that much more tragic.

pitbulllady


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## Galapoheros (Sep 5, 2007)

Ted said:


> well..i shoulda said ''natural science''.
> i never asked what they did for a living.


Haha, I know what you mean, this is true where I grew up too.  I grew up going to church with my parents but I felt that something was missing, stopped going over 20 years ago, did some reading and figured it out for myself.  I've had several Easterns but really like the Western hogs.  The look like giant scaley slugs to me.  We've seen one of the wettest Summers here in C TX.  There are toads everywhere.  Maybe the hogs will pick up.  I know I'm seeing more garters.  It has been a while since I've seen a hognose too.


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## Ted (Sep 5, 2007)

pitbulllady said:


> The Eastern Hog's propensity to eat only toads could very well wind up putting it on the "Threatened" list, eventually.  The prolonged drought in much of the South has resulted in a severe drop in frog and toad populations, with no long-standing water for them to breed in.  I can't recall the last time I saw a toad, and the last Hognose I found was many years ago, and it was really thin.  Captive breeders haven't really taken to the Eastern like they have the Western, due to the difficulty in feeding Easterns, so there really isn't a big captive population, either.  Toads used to be very common here; you could find many dozen underneath any given night security light, scarfing up bugs that would be attracted to the lights, and it would be difficult to avoid running over them in the driveway at night, there were so many.  I guess the combination of agricultural pesticides and drought has really put a hurt on the amphibian populations of many areas, and with it, a major dent in the populations of predators that feed on them.  Knowing that makes the killing of an Eastern Hognose snake that much more tragic.
> 
> pitbulllady


100% in agreement!


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## Ted (Sep 5, 2007)

Galapoheros said:


> Haha, I know what you mean, this is true where I grew up too.  I grew up going to church with my parents but I felt that something was missing, stopped going over 20 years ago, did some reading and figured it out for myself.  I've had several Easterns but really like the Western hogs.  The look like giant scaley slugs to me.  We've seen one of the wettest Summers here in C TX.  There are toads everywhere.  Maybe the hogs will pick up.  I know I'm seeing more garters.  It has been a while since I've seen a hognose too.


the blackneck garters from there are superb!
if you get a chance, snag me one.
i miss them.


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## Drachenjager (Sep 5, 2007)

pitbulllady said:


> The Eastern Hog's propensity to eat only toads could very well wind up putting it on the "Threatened" list, eventually.  The prolonged drought in much of the South has resulted in a severe drop in frog and toad populations, with no long-standing water for them to breed in.  I can't recall the last time I saw a toad, and the last Hognose I found was many years ago, and it was really thin.  Captive breeders haven't really taken to the Eastern like they have the Western, due to the difficulty in feeding Easterns, so there really isn't a big captive population, either.  Toads used to be very common here; you could find many dozen underneath any given night security light, scarfing up bugs that would be attracted to the lights, and it would be difficult to avoid running over them in the driveway at night, there were so many.  I guess the combination of agricultural pesticides and drought has really put a hurt on the amphibian populations of many areas, and with it, a major dent in the populations of predators that feed on them.  Knowing that makes the killing of an Eastern Hognose snake that much more tragic.
> 
> pitbulllady


after all the rain we had this years , toads are everywhere here lol


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## Galapoheros (Sep 6, 2007)

Ted said:


> the blackneck garters from there are superb!
> if you get a chance, snag me one.
> i miss them.


I have one left, send me a PM if you decide you really want it.  And like Drach said, toads every now!  I'm worried about the baby slings and plings with all the toads, ha.  Bring on the hogs!  I like toads too though, lifes rough, haha.


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