# Serious allergic response to frass



## Cirith Ungol (Nov 11, 2005)

My love of Ts only brings me this far... now I have to think of myself...

People... look out so it doesn't hit you too. I got hit by a full allergic broadside now regarding dubia frass. I had had a bit of trouble earlier and knew there'd be some issues with the frass and me, but crazy as I am I waited a bit too long before I trusted my feelings. I wanted to see how bad it can get and I can tell you, I've had enough and am raising the white flag.

So today when doing work in the colony I exposed myself as if I knew nothing was wrong. I didn't use gloves or breething mask and cleaned the dead and sick out of the colony with pincers, as well as food they left to rot. I think the frass layer is now about 1½-2 cm and it would be time to clean it out but I didn't dare yet.

So first thing is that I start sneezing repeatedly. Then my nose starts running, really only within a few minutes after I start working. If I happen to itch my eyes without having washed them repeatedly my eyes turn red and start hurting. The thing that's gotten dramatically worse today is breething. Went to bed 2½ hours ago and had to get up now. I could hardly breathe. I opened my window and just breathed fresh air for a while and only then I felt normal again.

Then I closed the window after like 10min. It got better after that but I have still trouble getting air into my lungs. 

So, this is serious and I'm really tinking of dumping my dubia container outside for a few hours today if it's still freezing and forget about the colony business!

I have a second colony which is S. tartara, has anybody experienced or heard of an allergic response to their frass? I'd like to keep at least one colony of something (not crickets though - I hate crickets) just in order to not havning to buy at the extremely expensive pet shop.


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## GabooN (Nov 11, 2005)

oh wow, thats crazy. I dont have experience with roaches though so I don't know how to help. Curious though, do you have any other alergies?


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## aliceinwl (Nov 11, 2005)

I don't have any roach experience, but your dubia allergies sound just like my cricket allergies. I've been feeding crix to herps for over 10 years now and developed quite an allergic response to them. I recently switched over to mealworms for the bulk of my herps and am now mildly allergic to them (I'm sure it will get worse). I have friends who've been feeding mealworms longer than I have and are now really allergic.

I think if you're predisposed to insect allergies, you'll develop one to just about any of them if you work with them long enough. I find that it helps to keep the frass to a minimum. Use something to scrape it out every couple of days, wear a mask, use gloves if you're going to be doing a lot of handling, work in a well ventilated room, and make sure you wash your hands. Doing the aforementioned is the only way I can deal with large quantities of crickets.

Good luck,
Alice


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## Cirith Ungol (Nov 11, 2005)

Thanks.
No I basically have no allergies at all otherwise. The only way I could think of keeping the colony going was by building a false bottom in the box with holes just large enough for the frass to fall through, but for the dubia babies to stay topside. That way I could easily just throw out the frass every few days, or maybe even keep it there for longer since it won't be mixed with the roaches anymore. Isn't there any T food that is allergy free in the long run?


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## Captante (Nov 11, 2005)

Sorry to hear about that... I was getting ready to start a colony of those myself & now I'm thinking twice, hope your ok!


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## Mister Internet (Nov 12, 2005)

Cirith Ungol said:
			
		

> That way I could easily just throw out the frass every few days, or maybe even keep it there for longer since it won't be mixed with the roaches anymore. Isn't there any T food that is allergy free in the long run?


How can you be absolutely sure it's the frass and not the roaches themselves to which you've developed the allergy?  I'm just curious... I've had my fair share of airborne allergies, but I hope to God I don't develop any reaction to my roaches. 

I have never heard of roach/insect allergies being species-specific... I'm not sure that our bodies would know the difference.


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## Cirith Ungol (Nov 12, 2005)

Mister Internet said:
			
		

> How can you be absolutely sure it's the frass and not the roaches themselves to which you've developed the allergy?  I'm just curious... I've had my fair share of airborne allergies, but I hope to God I don't develop any reaction to my roaches.
> 
> I have never heard of roach/insect allergies being species-specific... I'm not sure that our bodies would know the difference.


Actually... I don't, youre right. I just assumed automatically that it would be the frass since it's the only ""substance"" in the tank I could envision particles flying off of. But what I know is that when I open up the lid I get a whiff of the contents of the box and feel slight allergic responses to that. But if I also touch the egg carton or roaches or dig arround the the frass (when removing something with pincers), that's when it seriously hits me. 

Come to think of it - I actually placed tartara roaches into a few tanks by hand yesterday.   I hope it's not them!

Your question is very good and sobers it up for me but also freaks me out a bit - I actually don't know what it is, besides that it has to do with the roaches. I could make tests to see what I react to more but I don't feel up to that at the moment. I still have a little bit of breathing trouble and wanna get back to normal first for a few days.


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## Joel&Tyler R (Nov 12, 2005)

Might you try taking some Benadryl prior to messing with them?   Just a thought.


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## Cirith Ungol (Nov 12, 2005)

What is that? Some kind of anti allergic pills?


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## Joel&Tyler R (Nov 12, 2005)

yes it's an anti histamine.   There are different kinds,, one comes in a pink box or bottle (normal) & green (Allergy & sinus Headache)
I get migraines from allergies & I've been prescribed most the allergy meds but the Benadryl (Allergy & sinus Headache) formula works best for me.   Both kinds help stop itching (owners of hair kickers can appreciate that)LOL  
 I can not take the pink kind at night.  It makes me want to jump around for some reason (some kind of reaction) but the green one doesn't do that to me.

It does make you drowsy but you get used to it or build a tolerance?  It says to take one or two tabs.  Start with one or you'll be in bed for the day. LOL


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## Gesticulator (Nov 12, 2005)

wow, CU that's awful! If I were you I would try to sell your roaches, here on AB, if you can do it quickly! I personally would not take an antihistamine just to deal with the roaches. Even if you despise crickets, it is at least an option that you may have to accept, if you want to keep your T's. I would have to agree that I think you are either allergic to roaches or not, be it the frass or whatever. I do sympathize with you. PM me if you want to work something out with the dubias.


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## Cirith Ungol (Nov 12, 2005)

Nah, not selling. If I have to get rid of them I just put them in the freezer and use them pre-killed. That way they'd at least last me 1-2 years.


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## Cirith Ungol (Nov 12, 2005)

I've just scouted other possibilities and one thing that could improve my living quality would be to put the roach containers in a closet. Now the only possibility is to put them in the same closet as where I have some jackets and other stuff I don't wear very often or wear directly on the body (at least not to the highest degree). Is there a risk that my clothes might get contaminated by the mystical stuff that gives me the allergic reactions, just by being in close proximity to the roaches?


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## OldHag (Nov 12, 2005)

Im alergic to my hissers   If I hold one I have to wash  good or I itch like crazy. When I clean their cages I sneeze and snort and blow snot everywhere  Its ugly.... Ok so I dont blow snot...but Im all oozy and my eyes water and if I touch my eyes.....OOHHH boy all hell breaks loose.
I find when Im done cleaning all I have to do is wash good and wash my eyes out with water and Im ok!
I think its more the frass, like you thought, rather than the acutal roach. Yes, if their pokie legs prick me, I itch, its when I clean the cage that I get all plugged up and sneezy.


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## Ecilious (Nov 12, 2005)

I've kept a few species of cockroaches in the past and I never had any allergic problems but other problems (pests, smells, mould) only occured when I tried to keep them without substrate. 

I know lots of other people do just fine without but if you're having problems with your colony and don't want to get rid of them how about putting in two inches of soil, cork bark, dead leaves, earthworms and a handful of isopods. 

Roach nymphs WILL bury themselves in the shallows of the soil, but you won't have all the "frass" to compete with and you won't have to clean them out very often, though admitidly it's a bit of a hastle when you do have to.

Just a suggestion.


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## Cirith Ungol (Nov 12, 2005)

Hm... maybe I'm a dirty old boy?!  :?  Should I just wash myself more thoroughly?    Maybe that's it.    I'll give it a try and it will be worth it (even if it doesn't work for me), since the roaches are the only things keeping me in the hobby with the number of T's I have. I'd no way be able to buy crickets for them all...


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## Elytra and Antenna (Nov 12, 2005)

I have a similar problem but my alergy is to Ts rather than roaches. A friend of mine has to wear gloves and a mask when he feeds/cleans his Ts -- for me my eyes just water and I sneeze and itch a little.

Keep in mind that many people are allergic to dust (whether from dry peat or dry frass doesn't matter much at all) so think of ways to avoid stirring it up, wear a mask or keep the cage wet -- of course food would have to stay in a dish.


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## Digby Rigby (Nov 12, 2005)

*Species specific allergies*

We sell 1000's of roaches of many different species.  In that time we have had 3 people tell us of allergic reactions they have had to Blaberus discoidales.  These same people did not and do not experience allergic reactions to other members of the genus  Blaberus.  In fact when you have seen me advertise discoids fo sale they were very cheap because they came from people who were allergic to them so I sold their colonies.  Roaches crickets and meal worms are far from the only viable options available :clap: 

DigbyRigby@exoticfeeders.com

Specializing among other things in rodent sized insects and insect sized rodents.


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## Cirith Ungol (Nov 13, 2005)

Thanks for the info! I'll look into that species. I just hope it can't climb


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## xelda (Nov 13, 2005)

Mister Internet said:
			
		

> I have never heard of roach/insect allergies being species-specific... I'm not sure that our bodies would know the difference.


I can see that happening because roaches have different types of frass.  Dubia frass tends to stick to everything, so I can see how there'd be irritation even with picking up a soiled piece of egg carton in their cage.  Orangehead frass is very dusty.  Discoids have more solid, larger grains of frass that seem less likely to become airborne.

I've really only had trouble with lobsters, and that has to do with the sheer size of the colony.  There's poop everywhere in the cage, on every layer of egg carton, so it's hard to avoid getting some on my hands or arms when I'm packing orders.  I'm still getting into the habit of using gloves.


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## Dark Raptor (Nov 14, 2005)

Roaches also produce "defensive odours" and very often they are using their excrements as "biological weapon" when disturbed (I've noticed this in every specie I have). I think they can also cause allergies (I know 2 cases - one without direct contact with insects).

There was also my post with pictures of alergic reaction to Blaberus roaches:
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showpost.php?p=536534&postcount=10


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## recluse (Nov 14, 2005)

I like Oldhag sneeze and blow snot when feeding and cleaning my Hissers and lobster's out. I wonder if this is in response to the roaches or the substrate. :?


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## Cirith Ungol (Nov 14, 2005)

*Triumph!*

I went ahead and boldly cleaned out the container today, removing all the frass, old, almost half-roach-decomposed egg cartons, dead roaches and just stuff that gathered there over time, like some pieces of undigested food, moult skins and crusts of unidentifiable organic matter.

Prior I'd equipped myself with newly bought high tech stuff like a new papery breathing mask (opposed to the one I used earlier, which was a surgical mask!), thick and tough reusable rubber gloves and a "thingie" you can use to separate spagetty and water.

I had enlarged the holes in the "thingie" so that frass would fit through but no baby roaches. So with that I sifted through the frass, letting that drop into the toilet while keeping the roaches and other larger stuff inside the "thingie".

It still took about 1 hour to clean it all out since so much unwanted stuff ended up within the scrambling heap of roaches, but all in all it went quite well.

I think what did the trick though and had me not sneezing one single time was a magical pill I ate 6 hours earlier. A friend had given it to me and told me to give it a try (she's allergic to other stuff but said the pill could work in my case too, which obviously it did.)

So container cleaned, not one single sneezer, a few escapees which got either crushed by a titans fingers or got caught and... ermmm how do I best finish this sentence now? ... seems I ended it with a questionmark!  :?  Well anyway. All seems fine at the mo   

Thanks for the hints, suggestions, comments and for reading


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## Bloodletting (Nov 18, 2005)

I notice a reaction when I leave the tanks over a long period of time and everything is very dried out. There is a lot of dust when I finally clean out the tanks and that gets me going. I sneeze for like 10 minutes straight but not sure if it is from the frass or just the fine particles coming out. Dust, oatmeal, other food and debris......


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## Tony (Nov 18, 2005)

Now I dont feel so alone with my cricket allergy..Michael Jacobi, you reading this??

T


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