# Warning :Dont Feed Snakes In Their Tanks..



## ArachnoDude (Jan 10, 2008)

Im not really sure how this happened but, i bought a baby ball phyton about 14 inches big from a local pet shopp. it had some dry patches of skin on it but it looked ok. it was eating regularly a baby fuzzy every week. so about a month after i buy it it shed skin. everything in the tank was at a great condition, it was humid and it had a heating pad. and some little wood chips the pet shopp worker advised me to grab. so while it was tryng to itch off some of its leftover skin off its mouth on a rock i moistioned a towel and rubbed most of it off. i gues it stil had some so it tried rubbing it on the ground instead of the provided rock and it somehow swallowed a litle tiny thin .5 inch twig like thing no wider than a l. long story short..the little snake chocked on it. i tried getting it out and even tried hand feeding it water..(does that make sense?) it sucked cus i only had it about a month. Anyways. i dont think you guys should feed the snake on its subsrtate..it might choke?..it still puzzles me..


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## Spinarak (Jan 10, 2008)

Yep, one of the top ten rules on owning snakes. Even if they don't choke ingesting substrate can cause impaction which could lead to parasites, complications, and death. Sorry to learn of your experience.


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## Mushroom Spore (Jan 10, 2008)

ArachnoDude said:


> even tried hand feeding it water..(does that make sense?)


I...I really don't think this would have helped, given that the difference between safely drinking water and choking to death on it depends entirely on whether one is *purposely* trying to drink that water, given the mechanisms that keep voluntarily-consumed fluids out of the trachea. Maybe I'm just tired and misreading the paragraph, or guessing wrongly about HOW you tried "hand feeding it water," I hope I am.


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## UrbanJungles (Jan 10, 2008)

A small piece of wood would hardly choke a snake...even a small Ball python.  When you "hand fed" it water I hope you didn't accidentally get some water down the trachea and into the lungs as that would definitely cause asphyxiation or "choking".  It takes alot to get a snake to stop the breathing.


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## rollinkansas (Jan 11, 2008)

UrbanJungles said:


> A small piece of wood would hardly choke a snake...even a small Ball python.  When you "hand fed" it water I hope you didn't accidentally get some water down the trachea and into the lungs as that would definitely cause asphyxiation or "choking".  It takes alot to get a snake to stop the breathing.


Not to mention people forget in the wild they eat parts of the soil every time they get a meal. Their insides are made to handle it in the wild, same as in captivity(although i expect the substrate nazis to come out and bash me for saying this).


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## Sequin (Jan 11, 2008)

> Yep, one of the top ten rules on owning snakes.


Hahahaha. Really? Interesting. Moving a large boid to and from enclosures is dangerous to both the keeper, and the snake. Do you think wild animals have tupperwear containers to crawl into during feeding?

Arachno- By the sounds of it, you killed the snake. If I understand this correctly, you tried rubbing the snakes head on the ground? Why wouldn't you leave it alone, or give it a quick soak. A small piece of shed wasn't going to kill it. Seems like a moronic solution to such a small problem.


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## Brian S (Jan 11, 2008)

I also feed my snakes in their cages so I guess I'm also a rule breaker.


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## halfwaynowhere (Jan 11, 2008)

one of the down-sides about feeding them in their tanks is that then associate your hand coming into their tank as feeding, and are more likely to mistake your hand for food, and may bite you. That is the biggest reason I have seen for not feeding them in their tanks.


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## Mushroom Spore (Jan 11, 2008)

Sequin said:


> Hahahaha. Really? Interesting. Moving a large boid to and from enclosures is dangerous to both the keeper, and the snake.


Snakes big enough to harm their owners are not quite as commonly kept as the smaller ones. Besides, an eighteen-foot monster probably isn't going to even notice something that would harm the insides of a little bitty snake.


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## scottyk (Jan 11, 2008)

Sequin said:


> Hahahaha. Really? Interesting. Moving a large boid to and from enclosures is dangerous to both the keeper, and the snake. Do you think wild animals have tupperwear containers to crawl into during feeding?


Yes really. You don't want a snake that is conditioned to think anything coming into it's cage is food. It's a great way to increase your risk of getting tagged when you go to pick it up or try to do maintenance. 

Removing the snake to a seperate feeding container is a standard and widely accepted husbandry practice among private keepers. Even those with large boids will feed in plastic trash bins....


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## peterUK (Jan 11, 2008)

scottyk said:


> Removing the snake to a seperate feeding container is a standard and widely accepted husbandry practice among private keepers. Even those with large boids will feed in plastic trash bins....


Can i ask where this is a standard and widely accepted husbandry practice ?

I have kept snakes for 38 years and have NEVER met anyone who uses this method. Maybe someone who has 1 or 2 snakes and is super paranoid may read it on a forum such as this and think it is a good idea but someone with a large collection just isnt going to do it, it would take days to feed a few dozen snakes. When i had a snake collection, it took a whole day to clean, water change and feed 80 adults and about 25-30 juvs. When the hatchlings arrived it took another day and sometimes 2 days just to feed, water and clean the hatchlings. If I used your 'standard and widely accepted husbandry practice' I would have been feeding 24/7 with no let up.   

I can think of only two reasons to use this method of feeding snakes.
1) If more than one snake is being kept in the enclosure.
2) If it is an unusually aggressive snake that is on a permanent hunger drive.

A snake will only associate the cage door opening with food if that is the only thing the keeper does with the snake. If the keeper interacts with the snake on a regular daily basis then there will be no problems.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## scottyk (Jan 11, 2008)

Just because you never did it does not change the fact that it's a widely used practice. Do your own research....


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## halfwaynowhere (Jan 11, 2008)

this is what my brother in law does, and he's got quite a few snakes, seeing as he breeds them. the hatchlings get fed in their deli cups, but everyone else, including the 7 1/2 foot RTB, gets fed in a seperate enclosure. Everyone else I've talked to does it the same way. I could see it being different with the really big snakes, but it is a pretty common practice...


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## ZooRex (Jan 11, 2008)

> Not to mention people forget in the wild they eat parts of the soil every time they get a meal. Their insides are made to handle it in the wild, same as in captivity(although i expect the substrate nazis to come out and bash me for saying this).


I completley agree. Although I did have a problem with my first BP consuming a pinkie apsolutly covered in aspen bedding, I've been feeding my snakes on substrate for years now. I now use a mixture of peat and cypress mulch, both are perfectly natural and can't harm the snakes if ingested. ~ Rex


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## GailC (Jan 11, 2008)

I hate to say it but I also agree that its a possibility you killed your snake with the water. Snakes can't choke like a mammal, their air passage and food passage are separate. It was probably trying to dislodge the wood from its throat and when you gave it the water it went down the air passage. I highly recommend you do some more studying of snakes, their care and their anatomy if you are considering getting another one.

Yes, feeding in a separate container is common practice in the stats. I used to do it with all my snakes but now only do it with my hatchling corn snakes. If the prey item is dry then substrate shouldn't stick very bad. My corns are on aspen and my ball is on cypress.
None of my snakes that eat in their cage have mistaken me for food but I also get into there enclosures for more then just feeding.


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## rollinkansas (Jan 12, 2008)

KingRex said:


> I completley agree. Although I did have a problem with my first BP consuming a pinkie apsolutly covered in aspen bedding, I've been feeding my snakes on substrate for years now. I now use a mixture of peat and cypress mulch, both are perfectly natural and can't harm the snakes if ingested. ~ Rex


Good points. Not to mention most of the people who complain about feeding in the cage are just keyboard warriors regurgitating information they have read online or heard through the grapevine. Id venture to say most have not had an ingestion problem happen to them personally, but they still insist on shoving it down peoples throats as if their way is the only correct way.


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## Mushroom Spore (Jan 12, 2008)

rollinkansas said:


> Id venture to say most have not had an ingestion problem happen to them personally, but they still insist on shoving it down peoples throats as if their way is the only correct way.


I have read plenty of accounts over the years of people who HAVE had ingestion problems with their snakes. It's not like it's impossible. So yeah, to me, the only correct way is the one with ZERO percent chance of that happening--and the only way to make it zero percent is not to feed on substrate. :?


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## peterUK (Jan 12, 2008)

rollinkansas said:


> Good points. Not to mention most of the people who complain about feeding in the cage are just keyboard warriors regurgitating information they have read online or heard through the grapevine. Id venture to say most have not had an ingestion problem happen to them personally, but they still insist on shoving it down peoples throats as if their way is the only correct way.



:clap:. . . . . . . . . .:clap: . . . . . . . . . .:clap: . . . . . . . . . :clap: . . . . . . . . . :clap:. . . . . . . . . . :clap: . . . . . . . . . . :clap: . . . . . . . . . . :clap:

I would normally call them ' Instant add water experts' but i guess we both mean the same thing. :clap:


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## scottyk (Jan 12, 2008)

Sorry to debunk both of your keyboard warrior theories, but I've also kept snakes for close to 35 years, and had collections up as high as 50 animals when I was breeding Love line Okeetee corn snakes.

My original post just stated that feeding in seperate containers is a common practice, which it is, and offered some of the logic behind the method. I did not state my opinion on the method or suggest it was better or worse than any other way of feeding. There are as many correct ways to keep snakes as there are snake keepers, and many methods come down to nothing more than personal choice...

The only post on this thread that smacks of "only my way is the correct way" is the one below, which I find amusingly ironic  



peterUK said:


> Can i ask where this is a standard and widely accepted husbandry practice ?
> 
> I have kept snakes for 38 years and have NEVER met anyone who uses this method. Maybe someone who has 1 or 2 snakes and is super paranoid may read it on a forum such as this and think it is a good idea but someone with a large collection just isnt going to do it, it would take days to feed a few dozen snakes. When i had a snake collection, it took a whole day to clean, water change and feed 80 adults and about 25-30 juvs. When the hatchlings arrived it took another day and sometimes 2 days just to feed, water and clean the hatchlings. If I used your 'standard and widely accepted husbandry practice' I would have been feeding 24/7 with no let up.
> 
> ...


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## jonnysebachi (Jan 12, 2008)

It doesnt matter at all where you feed them!!!  Just make sure you are giving the best husbandry to the snakes as you can.  Every pet owner has their own way of taking care of their pets and the more we can try and share with others the better off our pets will be.  Don't argue the small stuff and forget the important details like humidity, temp, parasite issues, etc.  Remember: research and sharing helps us all.


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## Sequin (Jan 13, 2008)

scottyk said:


> Yes really. You don't want a snake that is conditioned to think anything coming into it's cage is food.


Most keepers just "hook train" the snake if this becomes a problem...



> It's a great way to increase your risk of getting tagged when you go to pick it up or try to do maintenance.


Yes, and moving a vulnerable snake that's in feeding mode, definitely reduces your chance of being tagged. 



> Removing the snake to a seperate feeding container is a standard and widely accepted husbandry practice among private keepers. Even those with large boids will feed in plastic trash bins....


HAHA. I'm not denying that. I just thought it was humerous he named it as a "rule" to proper snake keeping. Give me a break. An equal amount of herp enthusiasts feed their snakes inside the enclosure without any problems.


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## PhilK (Jan 13, 2008)

Hang on. Your python choked to death on a twig no bigger than this ---> I

That doesn't make any sense at all. Unless it went down his trachea (which is highly unlikely..)


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## scottyk (Jan 13, 2008)

Sequin said:


> Yes, and moving a vulnerable snake that's in feeding mode, definitely reduces your chance of being tagged.


As I said in my earlier post, there are many available methods, but in this case I can tell you from experience that you are making an incorrect assumption.

I started using the seperate container method for an especially beautiful and ornery male Okeetee breeder. He was bitey at the best of times, and if hungry would be focused right on my hand and even more difficult to manage. I have and am familiar with using hooks, but I wanted to try something different. 

After a few months using the tub, he would focus on that instead of me when I put it on the table next to his tank. I had him to the point where I would put a F/T mouse in the tub, open the top and he would slither right out of his tank and into the tub by himself. 

I switched them all over to this method because, despite the opinions of some who have never tried it, it can actually be done quite efficiently and quickly. I'd put five mice in five tubs, then add five snakes. By the time I finished spot cleaning, changing water etc they'd be finished and I'd move onto the next five. 

My Rosy Boas and Westen Hognose snakes got fed more along the lines of what Peter does because that worked for me. I'm sure others do it differently.

I think this thread would be more interesting and informative if everyone maybe asked questions and shared actual experiences instead of trashing things they have no firsthand knowledge of. Accusing those with a different opinion of being "add water experts" and "keyboard warriors" is immature and serves no purpose.....


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## rollinkansas (Jan 13, 2008)

scottyk said:


> *I think this thread would be more interesting* and informative *if everyone* maybe asked questions and *shared actual experiences instead of trashing things they have no firsthand knowledge of.* Accusing those with a different opinion of being "add water experts" and "keyboard warriors" is immature and serves no purpose.....


If you took the time to actually read all the posts, such as the ones from Mushroom Spore(not to single them out but), where in every thread I go into he/she preaches how dangerous feeding on substrate is and how deadly and horrible it is for the poor little animals, youd see that he/she has no actual experience feeding on substrate. Yet they continue to press in every thread how important it is not to feed on substrate.

Thats why they are called "keyboard warriors" and other terms because they preach something of which they only have 50% of the experience in. If they choose to feed off substrate, that is a method that works for them, but they bash feeding on substrate(something with which they have no experience in).


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## ReptileMan27 (Jan 13, 2008)

I have 11 snakes, I feed some in and some outside the cage. If your using bark,mulch,or something that contains large peices, its best to feed outside the cage or put some newspaper down over the substrate to be safe.


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## scottyk (Jan 13, 2008)

Rollinkansas- I very clearly read and comprehended all of the posts, which is why I used the term "everyone" and which you were kind enough to boldface for me in your reply. Thanks!

I also very clearly understood the intent of the two posts I did single out, but rather than quote them and continue this, I'm hoping that this thread can get back on topic now.


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## Mushroom Spore (Jan 13, 2008)

rollinkansas said:


> youd see that he/she has no actual experience feeding on substrate. Yet they continue to press in every thread how important it is not to feed on substrate.


I know that riding in the back of a pickup truck on the highway is dangerous too; do I have to actually do it myself before I can tell other people it's dangerous? :? 

I don't see why people get so defensive over their right to engage in risky animal care practices. It's not asking any great sacrifice of anybody that they get a spare shoebox and feed the snake in it. Heck, put the snake and the dead rodent in the shoebox, put it back in the tank and lock the tank back up, and you can come back in an hour or two and your work is done.


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## rollinkansas (Jan 14, 2008)

Mushroom Spore said:


> I know that riding in the back of a pickup truck on the highway is dangerous too; do I have to actually do it myself before I can tell other people it's dangerous? :?
> 
> I don't see why people get so defensive over their right to engage in risky animal care practices. It's not asking any great sacrifice of anybody that they get a spare shoebox and feed the snake in it. Heck, put the snake and the dead rodent in the shoebox, put it back in the tank and lock the tank back up, and you can come back in an hour or two and your work is done.



First off, that is a dumb and unrelated example you bring up. Snakes bodies are designed over millions of years to be able to digest small parts of substrate in the wild while consuming a meal. Do you think snakes survived in the wild by putting their food on a clean plate before consuming?

Its not risky, and its the fact that you dont accept people keep snakes differently than you. To be honest, if a snake cant digest a small piece of substrate with its meal, then its one more snake out of the weak genepool. 

Just accept the fact that certain people will keep their pets/breeders different than you. I dont have a problem when people say their opinion about how they keep their own animals, but thats just what it is; an opinion. Thats your view, that you believe in, and others might believe differently, but that doesnt make them wrong. Its a problem when people keep saying the person in question is wrong, just because they keep them differently than how you personally feel they should be kept. So keep your opinions as opinions and not as the only way to do things.


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## Mushroom Spore (Jan 14, 2008)

rollinkansas said:


> Do you think snakes survived in the wild by putting their food on a clean plate before consuming?


No. At the same time, however, snakes die in the wild from all sorts of stupid things; the species as a whole survives because not ALL of them do. A few snakes, yes, may get unlucky and choke to death or get something impacted in their guts. In fact, a few do, because there ARE people it has happened to. Therefore it can happen and is not some kind of imaginary accident comparable to a spaceship falling out of orbit and killing your pet. I don't see why this is hard. :? 



rollinkansas said:


> your view, that you believe in, and others might believe differently, but that doesnt make them wrong.


"There are people who have had pets die from substrate impaction" is not a matter of opinion. If you refuse to believe this has ever happened to anyone...well, yes, it rather does make you wrong. :?


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## rollinkansas (Jan 14, 2008)

Mushroom Spore said:


> No. At the same time, however, snakes die in the wild from all sorts of stupid things; the species as a whole survives because not ALL of them do. A few snakes, yes, may get unlucky and choke to death or get something impacted in their guts. In fact, a few do, because there ARE people it has happened to. Therefore it can happen and is not some kind of imaginary accident comparable to a spaceship falling out of orbit and killing your pet. I don't see why this is hard. :?
> 
> 
> 
> "There are people who have had pets die from substrate impaction" is not a matter of opinion. If you refuse to believe this has ever happened to anyone...well, yes, it rather does make you wrong. :?


Then maybe we will agree to disagree. You dont know the circumstances of every sand impaction case, nor are you a vet. You sound like one of the people who has a ball python, a corn snake, and a crested gecko all with names and think they know everything there is because they read it on the internet. 

People have had their reptiles get severe burns because of heat rocks and heat lamps. So we shouldnt use those for our reptiles. They are very dangerous, obviously. And we shouldnt have anything for them to climb on because they can possibly fall of and get hurt. So we should maybe start keeping the tank flat with nothing to climb on. Etc, etc

Point being its an inconvenience that isnt necessary. Of course freak accidents will happen. And of course the only times they do happen, youll read about it on the internet because people want immediate answers. But these accidents arent the norm, and dont happen often enough to warrant all these precautions. 

Preach your own experiences, not someone elses.


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## Mushroom Spore (Jan 14, 2008)

rollinkansas said:


> You sound like one of the people who has a ball python, a corn snake, and a crested gecko all with names and think they know everything there is because they read it on the internet.


Besides the fact that attacking one's opponent instead of the opponent's argument is a pretty meaningless tactic, your stereotyping is wrong in this case. But uh, good luck with that? 



rollinkansas said:


> Preach your own experiences, not someone elses.


I'm not going to purposely risk the health and well-being of my animals just so some guy on the internet will consider me to have enough "street cred" to be worth listening to.


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## OldHag (Jan 14, 2008)

Has anyone noticed that the person who started this thread hasnt even been back? Probably a troll trying to cause problems.

P.S. dont feed in substrait


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## Reedie (Jan 14, 2008)

halfwaynowhere said:


> one of the down-sides about feeding them in their tanks is that then associate your hand coming into their tank as feeding, and are more likely to mistake your hand for food, and may bite you. That is the biggest reason I have seen for not feeding them in their tanks.


This isn't necessarily true, I feed my Ball Python in her enclosure all the time. I have never had her bite me or mistake my hand for food. These are smart animals, smarter than a lot of people give them credit for. If she smell a rodent, and sees feeding tongs in my hand, she goes into feeding mode. If she sees my hand going into her enclosure with no rodent scent or feeding tongs, she doens't react at all. But then again, all snakes differ, maybe mine is just abnormal.

Just my $0.02.

-Reed


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## Beardo (Jan 14, 2008)

As I've said numerous times in the past...my own personal opinion is that using loose substrates or at least feeding on them is a very bad idea. I use paper towels/newspaper for substrate....always have, always will. Better safe than sorry is my motto. Everyone else is free to do what they want with their animals but remember for every action there is a consequence. I like my consequences to be healthy animals, but thats just me.


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## mbreptiles (Jan 14, 2008)

Feeding on substrates is not a bad idea. Nor is feeding in containers a bad idea either. I believe that is certain situations both should be done. I know for one, ball pythons can be very finicky eaters. Being that they are finicky eaters I tend to feed them in there racks on cypress bedding. I have found that with some of our breeding stock they will not eat if they are moved into another container. Also, I do not have time to move back and fourth a couple hundred ball pythons every 5 days. I also know that with alot of our retics we do not feed them in there rack systems or cages because they will start to associate your hand with food. Being that they have such a huge feeding response. We do feed most of our animals pre-killed or f/t rodents with the exception of ball pythons, which does help with the agressive feeding response as well. The animals that do feed in there cages or racks on f/t we use tongs to offer the food. I don't believe that if *proper* substrate is used that an animal will get impacted, especially a snake from the bedding. I do believe that alot of impactions from bedding is caused from improper bedding especially sand ( even more so play sand ). I don't know how many people we get a day in our store that are keeping there ball pythons on sand because a pet store recommended it. My point is I house and feed ball pythons on cypress bedding including pieds and other high end morphs. However, we normally do not move them onto cypress until they are 350 grams or so.


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## Jackie (Jan 17, 2008)

This thread turned into the war of substrate! First of all, what DID happen to the person who started the thread? He might have gotten offended when people told him he KILLED his snake by giving it water, but hopefully he didn't take it to heart and beat himself up thinking he's a murderer. We want people to be part of the hobby, not discourage them, right? 
As for the "discussion" at hand, there will always be different views on what people believe they should do when feeding their snakes. How about we let them do what works for them? I mean, it's nice to share our opinions and our experiences with n00bs to the hobby, but trying to convince one another to change their methods is a little bit ridiculous. 
Here's an idea... why can't we be friends? haha 

Alright I'm done. 
Peace!


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## ArachnoDude (Jan 21, 2008)

Um..thanks for all the support i guesssss. lol..i dont really feel bad since it happened a while ago. and i have some friends buy other things from that pet shopp that ended up dying some way or another. i used a syringe to try to feed it drinking water since i saw it stinking its mouth in the water bowl, now i fed it about 4 times and it hadnt chocked. it kinda baffled me as to how something about .5 in length and not even a pinhead cricket wide could chocke a snake.. guess i wasnt cut out for snakes..T's Ftw. thanks for replying guys


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## OlsonsOldLady (Jul 18, 2020)

My husband and I also feed our BP in her enclosure.  I do understand why people do remove their snake for feeding but our BP is apart of our family so she is taken out everyday.  We also pre-scent before feeding so she knows when it is dinner time!

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Rhino1 (Jul 26, 2020)

Your information seems dubious and it may need further revision.
Ive kept pythons for over 20 years, they get fed in their enclosure (as normal) and I lift them out with a snake hook when I want to handle them (as normal). Never had a hint of a problem.
They one thing I haven't done is pour water down their throats while they are eating


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## The Snark (Jul 26, 2020)

So what would be the best technique to feed these snorkers?


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## Albireo Wulfbooper (Jul 27, 2020)

The Snark said:


> So what would be the best technique to feed these snorkers?


walk in, put hands in air, and proclaim "take me, snek lords!"


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## Albireo Wulfbooper (Jul 27, 2020)

Albireo Wulfbooper said:


> walk in, put hands in air, and proclaim "take me, snek lords!"


Oh wait I forget step one: remove clothes. You don't want anyone choking on your t-shirt.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## The Snark (Jul 27, 2020)

Albireo Wulfbooper said:


> walk in, put hands in air, and proclaim "take me, snek lords!"


In actuality, common sense and homespun wisdom prevails in what would otherwise be a tag gauntlet in those containments.
* Feeding is done before 06:00 when the inmates are cold and laconic. None of the un-natural constant warm temperature of a reptile house or room. Snakes also live longer, sometimes by several years, when they are allowed to have a cool down period every 24 hours.
* Practice. Pay close attention to each snake's head. Learn to recognize instantly, innately, when a snake is kicked back or a loaded gun.
* Back up handler. In close quarters the back up person automatically grasped my belt or piece of my clothing, ready to give a warning yank. Four eyes always see more than 2.
* Proximity. Never get closer than X to the head of a snake. With pythons it's 2 feet. Less than that and you won't be able to react to a strike fast enough. Your reaction is the basic karate kata of a hand sword making a deflecting sideways sweep, NOT simply trying to dodge to the side or back.
* Know your snakes. Most are opportunity strikers, but a few, Hannah being the poster child, may zoom at you first.
With the above memorized and practiced I'm reasonably safe walking through that python containment I nicknamed 'bulldog alley'.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Andrea82 (Jul 28, 2020)

This original thread is 12 years old


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