# Bored. P. transvaalicus 4i navigating my hairy arm



## tabor (Sep 24, 2008)

No one should hold these. CRIKEY!

I was just really bored and i've been doing this since i was 13 or so... Can't wait til they molt and if I have the guts to hold a larger one ;P 

















the only reason I do this is so people realize scorps aren't evil. You give them a target, they will sting it. You do things right and they have no intention of stinging :} 


/end pointless post.


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## quinquestriatus (Sep 25, 2008)

tabor said:


> No one should hold these. CRIKEY!
> 
> I was just really bored and i've been doing this since i was 13 or so... Can't wait til they molt and if I have the guts to hold a larger one ;P
> 
> ...



100% agree


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## quinquestriatus (Sep 25, 2008)

Gorgeous scorp by the way.


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## ~Abyss~ (Sep 25, 2008)

Tobor your an idiot. LOL. Parabuthus are on my handling list too altough never really to show off. I'm just to poor to get tongs


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## Galapoheros (Sep 25, 2008)

Haha, I've got P. trans handling pics too.  Why is it that mosly us guys go for this risky stuff .  I'd rather have a Parabuthus in my hand than a Heterometrus.  My H. longimanus reach down while they are in my hand, give a torque pinch and stay clamped down as if to see who gives up.  I don't pick those up much.


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## tabor (Sep 25, 2008)

Galapoheros said:


> Haha, I've got P. trans handling pics too.  Why is it that mosly us guys go for this risky stuff .  I'd rather have a Parabuthus in my hand than a Heterometrus.  My H. longimanus reach down while they are in my hand, give a torque pinch and stay clamped down as if to see who gives up.  I don't pick those up much.


LOL i sold some P. emps to my boss at work. His first injury: he got drunk and let one of them pinch his tongue :wall:


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## cjm1991 (Sep 25, 2008)

tabor said:


> LOL i sold some P. emps to my boss at work. His first injury: he got drunk and let one of them pinch his tongue :wall:


We paid my friend $35 to let my M. Martensii sting him. He said it wasn't worth it lol.


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## Galapoheros (Sep 25, 2008)

Ha!, ...pinched his tongue!  That's weird!  A few weeks ago and picked up one of these 6 inch emps I have.  I still have a mark on my index finger.  I think I was a little rough because I had had a few beers and it let me have it.


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## tabor (Sep 25, 2008)

I got ballsy! A T. stigmurus. They seem to love my arm hair  













again, dont do this, unless you know what the heck you're doing!


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## Galapoheros (Sep 25, 2008)

Ha!, LOL, LOL indeedy!  I'll pick up anything but I'm too afraid to post pics


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## tabor (Sep 25, 2008)

Andro australis is my goal, but they're super spastic.


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## tabor (Sep 25, 2008)

welp. reached my goal. A. australis, not tail holding 


















;P


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## quinquestriatus (Sep 25, 2008)

Gorgeous scorps. I'm suprised no has got on to you for holding these. LOL Last time I posted pics of me handleing my male L.Q. the mods had to lock the forum. (Because of the controversy I haven't posted anymore handling pics since.) But, as long as you can get away with it.... Keep the pics coming.


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## quinquestriatus (Sep 25, 2008)

I've tried and tried to handle my A. australis. Mine just seem to attack anything when disturbed. Actually all my fat tails and thick tails are that way. It's not that they are aggressive... They just don't seem to care to be messed with. Props.


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## tabor (Sep 25, 2008)

Well. I've been doing this since I was like 12. I feel like the Steve Irwin of scorps. If I thought there was any risk I wouldn't have held her. I checked out her attitude before hand, and also emptied most of her venom in to my tongs before picking her up... the average hobbyist should NEVER do this, but really for 12+ years all I have done is lived and dealt with T's and scorps.


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## tabor (Sep 25, 2008)

quinquestriatus said:


> I've tried and tried to handle my A. australis. Mine just seem to attack anything when disturbed. Actually all my fat tails and thick tails are that way. It's not that they are aggressive... They just don't seem to care to be messed with. Props.


Best leave them alone then. I can't handle my male, but the female I can. And also keep in mind I have just about every anti-allergic reaction shot on standby and my mom is a Doc.


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## Galapoheros (Sep 25, 2008)

Yeah I wouldn't try it.  I would understand a little razzing if somebody tried to influence others to do it but if an adult decides to do it knowing the risks, well, it doesn't matter to me at all in that case.  Your mom's a doc?, my dad is but I don't know how much he likes me so I don't know if I would want him to give me shot, haha!, just kiddin, he thinks I'm cool ..I think.


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## tabor (Sep 25, 2008)

lol yeah shes actually a pharmacist too so I've got like direct access to anti-venoms if they exist to the species... they cost a TON though. some guy over the weekend got bit by a rattler... $45k in anti venom, had to extra flown in from Miami. he will live, but i doubt he will ever mess with a snake he finds while dove hunting again


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## Galapoheros (Sep 25, 2008)

Jeeeez that's an expensive accident!  I heard of a similar story around here but I think the person just decided they aren't going to pay up.  Med biz is kind of crazy.


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## tabor (Sep 25, 2008)

Galapoheros said:


> Jeeeez that's an expensive accident!  I heard of a similar story around here but I think the person just decided they aren't going to pay up.  Med biz is kind of crazy.


yeah he won't likely have to pay for it, since he is a military guy. even if he wasn't, the hospital would just eat the loss, and your tax dollars would somewhat cover their butts 


but yeah, now i need to get some death stalkers... I would make videos if i had an assistant... maybe my russian semi-girl friend can help


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## bjaeger (Sep 25, 2008)

"semi-girlfriend"

LOL, tabor! You crack me up 

Nice handling pics. You definitely have some balls holding them. Most venomous I've ever held would be B. jacksoni. I may try the LQ when I get one after I study it's behavior, of course. ;P


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## ~Abyss~ (Sep 25, 2008)

I would much rather handle an LQ than and A.a there less aggressive and just play dead. I know your putting a warning ryan but I wouldn't be surprised if these pics lead to more people holding their hots.


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## Aztek (Sep 25, 2008)

Scorpions are pretty precictable


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## Canth (Sep 25, 2008)

Is the T. stigmurus an adult? If not, I may have to contribute to this thread


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## radicaldementia (Sep 25, 2008)

Ha, you'll never get me to handle my Andros, they are kind of like mousetraps...they sit still for hours but as soon as you touch them they snap and spaz out.  Except for my A. mauritanicus who seems to be stuck in spaz mode.

The hottest I've handled is a C. exilicauda I recently got, they are very calm.


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## tabor (Sep 25, 2008)

~Abyss~ said:


> I would much rather handle an LQ than and A.a there less aggressive and just play dead. I know your putting a warning ryan but I wouldn't be surprised if these pics lead to more people holding their hots.


I would hope not. I almost never do, and when I spend about 5-10 minutes feeling out the scorpion with tongs, and when I am ready leave the scorp on my arm or hand for less than a minute.

There's a few tricks you can use to make it slightly safer, but I don't want to encourage anyone.

And also the T. stig is 4i, not an adult... I don't think I'd ever handle an adult one.


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## ~Abyss~ (Sep 25, 2008)

I wouldn't doubt it.


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## RichardMorris (Sep 25, 2008)

Be a real man. show us you can put an LQ on your arm.


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## tabor (Sep 25, 2008)

RichardMorris said:


> Be a real man. show us you can put an LQ on your arm.


Personally I feel A. australis is more dangerous than an LQ, I'm pretty sure they are responsible for more deaths as well. Also I don't own any LQ's and I'm not doing this for voyeurism.


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## cjm1991 (Sep 26, 2008)

~Abyss~ said:


> I would much rather handle an LQ than and A.a there less aggressive and just play dead. I know your putting a warning ryan but I wouldn't be surprised if these pics lead to more people holding their hots.


I totally disagree, if you saw my Lq's and then my A.a you would change your mind. My deathstalkers are the meanest scorps I have ever seen. If I put tongs within range they will sting them with such force it feels like its going to break their stinger... but my a.a I can handle usually no problem. Id post pics but that would just get more people wanting to do it. I already have subspinipes handling pics up, hopng noone who doesnt know what their doing attempts this :wall: At least they arent life threating though


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## saxman146 (Sep 26, 2008)

Why would someone need a description of how painful a scorpion sting is?


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## RichardMorris (Sep 26, 2008)

Sorry, regardless of your opinion, LQ is still the badest. Look at the LD50 if you need convincing.

I have 6 LQ (no AA to compare with). I say this from personal experience that if you were to put an LQ on you, you are most likely going to get tagged. They are very excitable and super aggressive. 

I wasn't really serious, but I think handling HOT of any type is just plain asking for trouble. And you may be leading others down a bad path in this thread.


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## RichardMorris (Sep 26, 2008)

LD50 has nothing to do with pain, it's death related.


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## quinquestriatus (Sep 26, 2008)

Calling any wild animal "pretty predictable" isn't being a safe keeper. When people start thinking like that accidents happen. I can't really say anything about *not* handling "hots" though. I do handle mine. As far as "experience" goes.... It don't matter if you've been in this hobby for 20 seconds or 20 yrs. If you are tagged, the hobby suffers. I'm not writing this to get on to anyone. I'm just writing this to warn newbies. The last thing we need is some newbie getting tagged or worse, a bunch of them and it ruining the hobby for everyone else. As far as the comment about getting the scorps to empty their venom onto tongs before handling..... I feel that is more dangerous than reaching in and picking it up. If a scorp is discharging venom, it's not a happy scorp and you can NEVER be 100% sure that it has fully discharged its venom. Plus even if it does who's to say when it stings you there's not venom on the aculeus? There is NO safe way to handle a hot. The safest way to keep a "hot" is to be hands off. Those of us who are experienced enough and *choose* to handle them rely on our knowledge of not only the individual scorp we are taking out but, all the knowleedge we have gained through out our life.


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## ~Abyss~ (Sep 26, 2008)

Tottally 100 percent agree with quinquestriatus(i still have trouble spelling that)


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## tabor (Sep 26, 2008)

RichardMorris said:


> Sorry, regardless of your opinion, LQ is still the badest. Look at the LD50 if you need convincing.
> 
> I have 6 LQ (no AA to compare with). I say this from personal experience that if you were to put an LQ on you, you are most likely going to get tagged. They are very excitable and super aggressive.
> 
> I wasn't really serious, but I think handling HOT of any type is just plain asking for trouble. And you may be leading others down a bad path in this thread.


mmm not really... Infact I'd say almost any medically significant Andro is more dangerous than an LQ, sure there is a .07 difference in their LD-50, but Andro's carry way more venom.


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## tabor (Sep 26, 2008)

quinquestriatus said:


> Calling any wild animal "pretty predictable" isn't being a safe keeper. When people start thinking like that accidents happen. I can't really say anything about *not* handling "hots" though. I do handle mine. As far as "experience" goes.... It don't matter if you've been in this hobby for 20 seconds or 20 yrs. If you are tagged, the hobby suffers. I'm not writing this to get on to anyone. I'm just writing this to warn newbies. The last thing we need is some newbie getting tagged or worse, a bunch of them and it ruining the hobby for everyone else. As far as the comment about getting the scorps to empty their venom onto tongs before handling..... I feel that is more dangerous than reaching in and picking it up. If a scorp is discharging venom, it's not a happy scorp and you can NEVER be 100% sure that it has fully discharged its venom. Plus even if it does who's to say when it stings you there's not venom on the aculeus? There is NO safe way to handle a hot. The safest way to keep a "hot" is to be hands off. Those of us who are experienced enough and *choose* to handle them rely on our knowledge of not only the individual scorp we are taking out but, all the knowleedge we have gained through out our life.


I agree completely. They are NEVER predictable, and stuff could go wrong. I took a calculated risk based on my experience, and I KNEW the risk. Read quinquestriatus' paragraph ten times before you even THINK about handling something "hot".


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## quinquestriatus (Sep 26, 2008)

~Abyss~ said:


> Tottally 100 percent agree with quinquestriatus(i still have trouble spelling that)


It took me a while to learn to. People on here and other forums in the past have shortened it to Quin. If that's easier.


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## tabor (Sep 26, 2008)

quinquestriatus said:


> It took me a while to learn to. People on here and other forums in the past have shortened it to Quin. If that's easier.


striatus pops up in tons of latin species names, meaning stripes. and quinque = five", break it down in to chunks and its easier.


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## quinquestriatus (Sep 26, 2008)

tabor said:


> striatus pops up in tons of latin species names, meaning stripes. and quinque = five", break it down in to chunks and its easier.


Never thought of that. Seems like it would work.


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## Quixtar (Sep 26, 2008)

tabor said:


> mmm not really... Infact I'd say almost any medically significant Andro is more dangerous than an LQ, sure there is a .07 difference in their LD-50, but Andro's carry way more venom.


That's a falsehood. Andros do not carry nor do they inject more venom than LQ. L. quinquestriatus' venom constituents and reactivity to the vertebrate CNS, specifically the charybdotoxin's K+ channel blockade frequency, are almost twice that of A. australis' venom constituents regardless of LD50 value and significantly greater than A. mauritanicus and crassicauda.

The only reason AA has accounted for many more deaths than LQ is location and possibly behavior, nothing more.


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## tabor (Sep 26, 2008)

Quixtar said:


> That's a falsehood. Andros do not carry nor do they inject more venom than LQ. L. quinquestriatus' venom constituents and reactivity to the vertebrate CNS, specifically the charybdotoxin's K+ channel blockade frequency, are almost twice that of A. australis' venom constituents regardless of LD50 value and significantly greater than A. mauritanicus and crassicauda.
> 
> The only reason AA has accounted for many more deaths than LQ is location and possibly behavior, nothing more.


dually noted. if i ever get some LQ's and feel them out perhaps I will handle them, but i'm not going to rush out and buy one just to handle it


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## cjm1991 (Sep 26, 2008)

Even if you are a "pro" at handling its still dont change the best way to hold them, which is to never do it. They wont care if you have experience if it stings and kills you(not tabor but everyone wanting to handle hot species) they will still eliminate the hobby for us. And what is the need to handle a LQ.. Could you at least play russian roulette so when the worst imaginable happens we dont suffer for it. You see what im saying.. Just trying to keep the hobby from being ruined or from a good person dieing to a scorpion, thats all.


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## tabor (Sep 26, 2008)

cjm1991 said:


> Even if you are a "pro" at handling its still dont change the best way to hold them, which is to never do it. They wont care if you have experience if it stings and kills you(not tabor but everyone wanting to handle hot species) they will still eliminate the hobby for us. And what is the need to handle a LQ.. Could you at least play russian roulette so when the worst imaginable happens we dont suffer for it. You see what im saying.. Just trying to keep the hobby from being ruined or from a good person dieing to a scorpion, thats all.


so what if someone gets bit by G. rosea T, has an allergic reaction and dies? Does that ruin the T hobby?


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## Quixtar (Sep 26, 2008)

tabor said:


> so what if someone gets bit by G. rosea T, has an allergic reaction and dies? Does that ruin the T hobby?


Well, technically speaking you can't be allergic to T venom because they're composed entirely of peptides, which are incapable of triggering IgE to start an allergic reaction.

This forum is a little ridiculous in how paranoid people are over seeing others handle hots. If you understand the consequences, I say do whatever the **** you want. Children and the immature shouldn't be sold these creatures in the first place. That's the only thing I'd care to monitor. So people will occasionally get killed by their pets. It happens. Same deal with pit bulls.

I've handled Leiurus, Androctonus, Tityus, and even Sicarius and Phoneutria spiders. A bunch of guys in the True Spiders forum got on my ass for posting a picture of a Sicarius on my hand.


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## quinquestriatus (Sep 26, 2008)

I used to work in a reptile store in CO. Reptilian Haven is in my eyes the best reptile store ever in CO. It was the pioneer store of CO. Unfortunately the owners retired and it closed. While I was there, for almost 2 1/2 years, I saw my fair share of morons. I sold a guy a P. irminia. He was new to the hobby. He was doin fine and getting into all kinds of T's. He got tagged by his P. Irminia not once but twice on two seperate occasions (HIS DRUNKIN FUALT). I refused to ever sell to him again for the sake of the hobby. You say we're ridiculously paranoid? Look at the venomous snake hobby. In CO you can't even own one with a permit. That's ridiculous paranoia on the legislative part. In the city of Denver, Aurora, and I believe Lakewood they have bans on arachnids. This guy was tagged, went to the hospital both times and now there's a record of someone else getting tagged. If they've placed bans in certain cities it's only a matter of time before it goes state wide and then, nation wide. Hell Yeah I'm paranoid. Arachnids as "pets" are already frowned upon by the vast majority of people. Why give them more excuses? I'm all for the right to handle your animals. I'm not for handling them for the wrong reasons or mishandling them period. Those with experience know how to go about handling. All others need not to try.


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## dtknow (Sep 26, 2008)

Sorry but when you guys bring up people getting killed by other pets...that is exactly why pit bull owners and big snake owners are really taking the brunt of legislation lately. 

Ok you guys know the risk. WTH are the benefits.


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## tabor (Sep 26, 2008)

dtknow said:


> Sorry but when you guys bring up people getting killed by other pets...that is exactly why pit bull owners and big snake owners are really taking the brunt of legislation lately.
> 
> Ok you guys know the risk. WTH are the benefits.


what is the benefit of keeping them as pets? what is the benefit of touching any wild animal?


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## Galapoheros (Sep 26, 2008)

I admit that I have a tiny attraction to risk, even if there is no realized benefit.  It's the same reason some people bungee jump and enjoy the thrill, while others see it as an unreasonable thing to do.  I understand both sides and don't see either side as being right or wrong.  But we are kind of playing with fire here, as far as gov reg of animals go.  I'm not sure why this comes to mind but, the mind-set of people doesn't seem to change much as things around them do change.  If 50 people a year were getting murdered in a small town 20 years ago and today that number is 10 a year, in the minds of people, the level of emotion concerning the two mortality rates at the different points in time is about the same.  In a way I think that relates to how governments start getting nit-picky about small things.  People are attracted to filling the need of having to worry about something.  Sometimes I think it's in our genes to need a problem when there isn't one, if there's not a prob, somebody will create one.  Sorry if this post sounds weird, I drank some Herradura .


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## cjm1991 (Oct 6, 2008)

*Feeling dangerous*

  She was being calm  





Please note: dont do this if you dont know what your doing.. use common sense


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## invertoholic (Oct 6, 2008)

:wall: you know it's that kinda of view that really gets me going i mean come on if a person can own ANY ANIMAL as a "pet" then you should be able to own ANY ANIMAL!! without exceptions only intelligent individuals with sense should keep dangerous creatures sure but why ban or restrict something based on outdated info or superstitions   it turns my gut every time im hanging out with some one who's proud to have killed a serpent or invert based on their own fears i say live and let live if they take away our T's,scorps,pedes and others than whos to say a day won't come when they demand your kittens and puppies? or for that matter start regulating how many offspring YOU can have  once laws like these get into the system it is almost impossible to remove them from the books and I AS AN OWNER do not condone people who handle their venomous pets that DO NOT KNOW ORE ARE INEXPERIENCED   WITH THEM! i myself have handled a few female L,Q's many times and only got 1 dry sting when 1 slipped  it was a mild wound and not all that bad iv'e had worse hornet bites owners and distributors of these animals should have a fact based pamphlet for the handling and cage cleaning of their animals species enough said if some gets bite,whacked or tagged then they had it coming and should learn from it besides THEY are the ones paying the bill at the hospital not the feds so they shouldn't regulate period! :?


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## cjm1991 (Oct 6, 2008)

invertoholic said:


> :wall: you know it's that kinda of view that really gets me going i mean come on if a person can own ANY ANIMAL as a "pet" then you should be able to own ANY ANIMAL!! without exceptions only intelligent individuals with sense should keep dangerous creatures sure but why ban or restrict something based on outdated info or superstitions   it turns my gut every time im hanging out with some one who's proud to have killed a serpent or invert based on their own fears i say live and let live if they take away our T's,scorps,pedes and others than whos to say a day won't come when they demand your kittens and puppies? or for that matter start regulating how many offspring YOU can have  once laws like these get into the system it is almost impossible to remove them from the books and I AS AN OWNER do not condone people who handle their venomous pets that DO NOT KNOW ORE ARE INEXPERIENCED   WITH THEM! i myself have handled a few female L,Q's many times and only got 1 dry sting when 1 slipped  it was a mild wound and not all that bad iv'e had worse hornet bites owners and distributors of these animals should have a fact based pamphlet for the handling and cage cleaning of their animals species enough said if some gets bite,whacked or tagged then they had it coming and should learn from it besides THEY are the ones paying the bill at the hospital not the feds so they shouldn't regulate period! :?



Have you handled an adult like this one? This one is actually gravid and is from my communal tank. She is around 5" with tail now. Also very aggressive most of the time, just not tonight.


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## Nikos (Oct 6, 2008)

I really cannot understad the reasoning behind this thread!
kids are reading the forums too.
Such acts can only hurt the hobby.


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## drgonzo (Oct 6, 2008)

vardoulas said:


> I really cannot understad the reasoning behind this thread!
> kids are reading the forums too.
> Such acts can only hurt the hobby.


Exactly :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:


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## pandinus (Oct 6, 2008)

the part that worries me most is not so much the handling of the animal, the part that seems the most difficult is getting the animal off of you when your ready to stop. especially if it is one whose behavior is to stand its ground when intimidated, rathe than just run off your hand. i face this problem with vittatus all the time. they are fine as long as they are just chilling, but it can be a downright pain (sometimes in more way than one) to get them off again.
I have tried scooting a piece of paper under them, i have tried tailing them, i have tried gently herding them off my arm into a container, each with varrying success. what method do you use?



John


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## cjm1991 (Oct 6, 2008)

I either grab by the tail or take a metal poker and push on their legs a little to nudge them. I picked that LQ in the pic up by its tail. I have actually held 2 adult LQ's at the same time. Noway I could have got a pic in that delicate of a situation though. Idk about scooting paper under them as I wouldnt know what to do after they are on the paper if you get me? And you cant just herd deathstalkers as they are extremely defensive.


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## RichardMorris (Oct 6, 2008)

cjm1991 said:


> She was being calm
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Common sense? You need to re-evaluate your own common sense (as in you have none).


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## pandinus (Oct 6, 2008)

im sure that everyone on this thread who is posting pics is aware of the risks they are taking, and many have said they do not condone this behavior. I dont think that it is necessary to start flinging flames and insults at eachother. If you dont agree with the practice, you dont have to read the thread. but it is not worth dividing the board into factions and arguing over ethics. these people had the information and we should respect their right to make their own personal choices. im getting down from the soap box now.


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## cjm1991 (Oct 6, 2008)

Why come in here and start flaming only at me when there are many other people holding very hot species. Stop trying to start an arguement and do something worth while for the boards. Thank you for seeing it the way everyone else should pandinus, thats why I have alot more respect for you.


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## Snake_Eyes (Oct 6, 2008)

Nice pics everyone. 

You could never get me to hold either of my P. transvaalicus. My female is layed back enough to where I probably could but my male on the other hand is a spaz.


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## errit (Oct 7, 2008)

you might get used to having dangerously venemous scorpions. you see them every day this might cause a lack of respect for its toxicity. you might tend to underestimate this. it is supposedly not to be deadly to adults but this one can really hurt you and make you sick. because sometimes it does happen that an adult dies from its sting. and not due to an allergic reaction but purely because of the power of its venom. I'v read articles on mesobuthus tamuls who kills adult men. and the LQ is larger and has stronger venom

I also have an LQ but have never handled him with my bare hands. that is what tweezers are for.

and imperators would make a better display as well.


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## Xaranx (Oct 7, 2008)

RichardMorris said:


> Common sense? You need to re-evaluate your own common sense (as in you have none).


No need to be rude to someone just because you don't agree with what they are doing.


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## Aztek (Oct 7, 2008)

Scorpions are too predictable. Most won't sting just because you nudge them. That's the way to guide them.


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## cjm1991 (Oct 7, 2008)

Aztek said:


> Scorpions are too predictable. Most won't sting just because you nudge them. That's the way to guide them.


Not all of them. Most, yes are very predictable. There are exceptions though, my P.imp was a whole lot more aggressive than any of my Andro's even. Yet I handled him no problem.. but I try to handle my Alternans and WHAM within 3 seconds I get tagged lol.


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## ~Abyss~ (Oct 7, 2008)

Aztek said:


> Scorpions are too predictable. Most won't sting just because you nudge them. That's the way to guide them.


Ahh why the hell did I open this thread.  

Az, scorpions are actually very very unpredictable. Especially the ones capable of squirting venom and the ones that LOVE to play dead. Like LQ's


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## cjm1991 (Oct 7, 2008)

I told ya.


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## tabor (Oct 11, 2008)

scorpions are unpredictable, wild animals. they can never be "tamed"... you might think you understand them and might understand the risks of handling a "hot" species. its a risk some people take in any hobby where the animals are dangerous (see venomous snake keepers). it is a risk... but if you work around something long enough it becomes a _calculated _risk. sure, that AA could have tagged me and I die, but I had all the preventative measures in place and spent a good 15 minutes working with her before hand.

I would *never *approach a wild LQ and handle it the way i did the AA or any of the other species. Why? I have no experience with LQs, where as I have about 12+ with the others.

Why did I hold them? Not to encourage others to do the same, but show that even the most venomous creepy crawlies aren't pure evil like most people think.

then again you're talking to a guy who eats roaches and has owned 3000+ inverts over the years.


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## pandinus (Oct 11, 2008)

when all is said and done i think the point is somewhat moot. there are those who will choose to interact with their animals and there are those who will admire from a distance. neither way is necessarily wrong, and this whole debate comes off as somewhat ethnocentric. Tabor, Abyss as well as the others here who posted about handling are sane, competent, fully qualified owners, and while it is one thing to discuss their rationale, and discuss these matters, none of them owes anyone an excuse or an explanation. in order for this community to truly thrive and branch out we all could use a litttle boost of tolerance to the idea that our own ways are not the only way. There have been many posts before of people wanting to share something, yet being scared to because of the flame factor. these boards were intended to be a melting pot of information. if a small group of people wants to talk about their experience in handling hots or keeping multiple species together, or feeding vertebrates to a scorpion, then there is no one who says you need to get involved. if you find the subject matter personally in poor taste, remember that is your opinion and no one elses, but this is a community, and people should not be afraid to discuss a topic, or relate an experience for fear of being flamed. even if a new person is posting pics of an improper setup, or doing something you dont agree with, always be careful of other peoples feelings. often times advice can easily be misconstrued as critisism. the point being that everyone has the right to share their opinion, but it gets in the way of academia to have some topics always turn into ethical debates. if you feel so strongly on something that you must post something, a simple statement of your opinion withouth attacking those who dont share it is more than sufficient. this is not a post limited to this thread, but rather the cumilative opinion i have derived from several multipage threads of debate during my years here. this post is not directed towards any one person, and not meant to point the finger of blame, but is rather an appeal to end the bickering that seems to go on here whenever such threads arise. 


John


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## tabor (Oct 11, 2008)

pandinus said:


> when all is said and done i think the point is somewhat moot. there are those who will choose to interact with their animals and there are those who will admire from a distance. neither way is necessarily wrong, and this whole debate comes off as somewhat ethnocentric. Tabor, Abyss as well as the others here who posted about handling are sane, competent, fully qualified owners, and while it is one thing to discuss their rationale, and discuss these matters, none of them owes anyone an excuse or an explanation. in order for this community to truly thrive and branch out we all could use a litttle boost of tolerance to the idea that our own ways are not the only way. There have been many posts before of people wanting to share something, yet being scared to because of the flame factor. these boards were intended to be a melting pot of information. if a small group of people wants to talk about their experience in handling hots or keeping multiple species together, or feeding vertebrates to a scorpion, then there is no one who says you need to get involved. if you find the subject matter personally in poor taste, remember that is your opinion and no one elses, but this is a community, and people should not be afraid to discuss a topic, or relate an experience for fear of being flamed. even if a new person is posting pics of an improper setup, or doing something you dont agree with, always be careful of other peoples feelings. often times advice can easily be misconstrued as critisism. the point being that everyone has the right to share their opinion, but it gets in the way of academia to have some topics always turn into ethical debates. if you feel so strongly on something that you must post something, a simple statement of your opinion withouth attacking those who dont share it is more than sufficient. this is not a post limited to this thread, but rather the cumilative opinion i have derived from several multipage threads of debate during my years here. this post is not directed towards any one person, and not meant to point the finger of blame, but is rather an appeal to end the bickering that seems to go on here whenever such threads arise.
> 
> 
> John


well said john


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## dtknow (Oct 11, 2008)

tabor said:


> what is the benefit of keeping them as pets? what is the benefit of touching any wild animal?


Benefit of keeping scorps as pets
1. Education/outreach. People seeing scorps will get to know them better and be fascinated by them. And it is fun.
2. Touching a wild animal: Well, when someone catches a snake or a frog to bring back and show everyone else, again everyone is educated and learns more and appreciates the animal more than photograph. Again, it is fun.

However, the benefits far outweight the risks(almost nill) to the handler. I will happily grab a racer or similar to show people since the worst thing that could happen would be some nibble marks on my thumb or maybe I'd smell like snake musk for the rest of the day. And they will see snakes(at least this particular kind) actually aren't dangerous. Here we are talking of either harmless animals or possibly dangerous ones handled/kept with adequate precautions(which would not be the behavior many seem to be bragging about in this thread!).


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## tabor (Oct 11, 2008)

dtknow said:


> Benefit of keeping scorps as pets
> 1. Education/outreach. People seeing scorps will get to know them better and be fascinated by them. And it is fun.
> 2. Touching a wild animal: Well, when someone catches a snake or a frog to bring back and show everyone else, again everyone is educated and learns more and appreciates the animal more than photograph. Again, it is fun.
> 
> However, the benefits far outweight the risks(almost nill) to the handler. I will happily grab a racer or similar to show people since the worst thing that could happen would be some nibble marks on my thumb or maybe I'd smell like snake musk for the rest of the day. And they will see snakes(at least this particular kind) actually aren't dangerous. Here we are talking of either harmless animals or possibly dangerous ones handled/kept with adequate precautions(which would not be the behavior many seem to be bragging about in this thread!).


it was a rhetorical question bro!

i'd like to become the steve irwin of inverts lol. ive been stung by a sting ray and lived! and have over 30k views on you tube... i just need an assistant to man the camera!


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## dairy (Oct 11, 2008)

tabor said:


> sure, that AA could have tagged me and I die, but I had all the preventative measures in place and spent a good 15 minutes working with her before hand.


Honest question: What are the preventative measures? I'm having a hard time seeing what you could do to prevent a sting, or reduce the effects thereof. It's not like you can put a cork on its telson :? Anti venom on hand?

As far as handling and posting pictures from an influence viewpoint, this rings of "Violence in video games made me go on that killing spree."

Some people buy it, some don't and there's not much middle ground. I say put your disclaimer on there and post away. 

If kids see this and try to emulate it, then the blame falls on the parents of said kid. Who gives a minor access to these types of critters? Who allows their kid to enter a situation where they may encounter/interact with a critter capable of delivering a fatal sting (or bite or whatever) without A) Warning them, and B) Supervising them...closely. 

In support of these arguments I offer the following in the way of past precedent:

Jackass - TV Series, Movies etc - 'Nuff said

Evil Knievel (sp?) - Fact: Motorcycles are dangerous! Fact: Motorcycle stunts are even more dangerous! GO EVIL :worship: 

Me with a rifle at age 10 - still haven't shot myself or anything else that I didn't intend to. Mom and Dad taught me how to handle a firearm, how not to handle a firearm and were around when I was target shooting, hunting grouse etc.

In conclusion:
It's good for people to see that these critters are not malevolent, even if they are dangerous. To be fair to wild critters I gotta say I can't actually recall ever running into a sadistic animal that didn't walk on two legs.


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## Rydog (Oct 11, 2008)

Here's the way I see it:

I hope you get stung, stung with common sense. 

People need to realize that if there is a fatal accident with hot scorps, there will be more of a chance for legislation to be passed outlawing them, take a look a England for example. With any animal there is a probability that something will cause the animal to try and defend itself. 

What really amazes me the most about people is that they dont fully realize how powerful the venom of these scorps are, and how much pain and suffering you will experience if you get stung. Trust me I know.


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## tabor (Oct 11, 2008)

Rydog said:


> Here's the way I see it:
> 
> I hope you get stung, stung with common sense.
> 
> ...


scorpion legislation is pretty low on the list of the governments concerns right now. 


also my preventative measures are studying the scorpion before hand, prodding with tongs, keeping them at a slightly cooler temp so they are less active, etc... also having an epipen on standby


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## Aztek (Oct 11, 2008)

~Abyss~ said:


> Ahh why the hell did I open this thread.
> 
> Az, scorpions are actually very very unpredictable. Especially the ones capable of squirting venom and the ones that LOVE to play dead. Like LQ's


Did you have them hot


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## dtknow (Oct 11, 2008)

tabor said:


> scorpion legislation is pretty low on the list of the governments concerns right now.


Yes, yes, lower than venomous snakes...since the news media doesn't YET have a headline making story of someone getting stung.


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## Rydog (Oct 11, 2008)

MAN DIES FROM SCORPION STING
accident while handling causes scorp to sting

That news headline could get local governments involved then state gov'ts then the national gov't. Dont get me wrong, I dont care about people handling scorps, its when things go wrong that affect everyone else thats when I get angry.


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## Rick McJimsey (Oct 11, 2008)

cjm1991 said:


> She was being calm
> 
> 
> 
> ...


While i disagree with handling it, i must say that is a GORGEOUS lq


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## pandinus (Oct 11, 2008)

bobtard said:


> While i disagree with handling it, i must say that is a GORGEOUS lq


this is an example of a good post, i hope we see more people voicing their opinions in this more constructive fashion.


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## quinquestriatus (Oct 12, 2008)

I totally agree with owners rights to handle what they own. I handle almost everything I own. Why just tonight I accessed one of my H. Maculata cages. I was just doin maintenance and she decided to come say hi to me. She walked across me and when she was done she went back into her cage. I do disagree however with "cooling" the animal down to make it "safer". I've heard different stories on how people do this. I wont be posting the ways so no one gets any ideas in case they do not know. ALL my handling is done with the animal as is. These creatures are so amazing. I couldn't imagine not having them. I also could never imagine not handling them. Although they are unpredictable... The fact remains that we all have the right to handle them as long as we are of age. One thing I've noticed over the years is that every scorp I've owned whether the same species or different seem to have their own little personalties. I don't know if anyone else has noticed this too. I've watched multiple scorps of the same species over the course of their lives and each one seems to have a different personality. I've had L.Q.'s that are sweet as can be and others that'll rip you a new one. Anyways, congrats to all that have posted pics in this thread yall have some wonderful looking scorps. It's pretty cool to watch the different color variations with in the same species. Here's my pics that I've posted before. Sorry I wont be posting any of the new ones yet. Have to still tranfer a lot of pics.
LQs










This one's new!


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