# Sling enclosure size and logic



## Buffalo Ts (Feb 19, 2020)

Hey all,



I have 2 grammostola slings, both around 1.5 inches. I put them both in a 6x6 inch enclosure, knowing it would be a little large for them, thinking they would grow into them. 

I am able to keep an eye on both of them, and they have hides to be in. 

Is there anything wrong with putting them in a larger enclosure like this? Any real drawbacks?


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## Poonjab (Feb 19, 2020)

I would personally argue that they would be fine. Just as long as they have zero opportunities to escape. I received my h.pulchripes in same size enclosure at roughly the same size. I didn’t do a rehouse due to her being in heavy pre-molt and also not wanting to destroy all her webbing. She seems to be thriving very well. So I just left her be.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Buffalo Ts (Feb 19, 2020)

Ok, thanks for the response. Definitely no chance at an escape. 

 Obviously wild T's are on the Earth's surface. 

My guess was as long as there's a burrow, water dish, foliage  to hide in, cover, the T would fine, and would be comfortable.


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## Colorado Ts (Feb 19, 2020)

As I understand it, the reason that the sizes of enclosures for tarantulas is smaller than other animals of comparable size...tarantulas are rather sedentary,  not overly mobile. They wait for food to come them.

So for slings, reducing the size of the enclosure forces prey items into a tight proximity to the spider. This makes it much more beneficial for the spider during feeding.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 4


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## Buffalo Ts (Feb 19, 2020)

Colorado Ts said:


> As I understand it, the reason that the sizes of enclosures for tarantulas is small than other animals of comparable size...tarantulas are rather sedentary,  it overly mobile. They wait for food to come them.
> 
> So for slings, reducing the size of the enclosure forces prey items into a tight proximity to the spider. This makes it much more beneficial for the spider during feeding.


Makes sense. I typically place the prey item near burrow entrance. If the T is hungry, it usually seems to be hanging out near the entrance. 

So far, I am a very watchful keeper. I don't leave live prey items in the enclosure for very long. I will leave a pre killed for my smaller slings over night, but not live prey.

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## Swagg (Feb 19, 2020)

@BadDann oversized enclosures can contribute to longer fasting, in my experience. Also slows down growth substantially from what @cold blood has said a few times.

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## cold blood (Feb 19, 2020)

Poonjab said:


> I would personally argue that they would be fine. Just as long as they have zero opportunities to escape. I received my h.pulchripes in same size enclosure at roughly the same size. I didn’t do a rehouse due to her being in heavy pre-molt and also not wanting to destroy all her webbing. She seems to be thriving very well. So I just left her be.


The small housing for slings rule does NOT apply to fossorials.   Its more a NW terrestrial thing.


BadDann said:


> . Definitely no chance at an escape.


1.5" is smaller than i would ever suggest for a KK, 1.75 is usually the minimum due to escape risk....its crazy how tight of a place they can squeeze through.


Swagg said:


> @BadDann oversized enclosures can contribute to longer fasting, in my experience. Also slows down growth substantially from what @cold blood has said a few times.


Yes, it induces reclusiveness which generally slows growth a lot, but at 1.5" its right outside the range i would be concerned, this size would be when i would upgrade to larger housing...these KKs are too big, but not so much they would be a problem for the op as long as nothing escapes.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Buffalo Ts (Feb 19, 2020)

cold blood said:


> The small housing for slings rule does NOT apply to fossorials.   Its more a NW terrestrial thing.
> 
> 
> 1.5" is smaller than i would ever suggest for a KK, 1.75 is usually the minimum due to escape risk....its crazy how tight of a place they can squeeze through.
> ...


Now you got me a little nervous of an escape! 

I've had my pulchra in one for a month with no issues. It has mostly stayed in it's burrow. I have the 16oz deli cups.. you think it is worth it to rehouse? My pulchra is fat, and closed the enterences to it's burrow. 
My 1.5 pulchripes isnt as fat



cold blood said:


> The small housing for slings rule does NOT apply to fossorials.   Its more a NW terrestrial thing.
> 
> 
> 1.5" is smaller than i would ever suggest for a KK, 1.75 is usually the minimum due to escape risk....its crazy how tight of a place they can squeeze through.
> ...


This is my pulchripes



cold blood said:


> The small housing for slings rule does NOT apply to fossorials.   Its more a NW terrestrial thing.
> 
> 
> 1.5" is smaller than i would ever suggest for a KK, 1.75 is usually the minimum due to escape risk....its crazy how tight of a place they can squeeze through.
> ...


I did double checked all the spaces I the enclosure. I feel the largest opening is on the small side door . I closed that space off, along with the spaces around the top clear door. These slings were listed as 1.5inch . They appear to be slightly larger. Which is something I noticed while ordering from Jamie.


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## cold blood (Feb 19, 2020)

i would personally have them in 16oz deli cups for at least one more molt, if not two....but like i said, as long as you are confident they wont escape, it shouldnt really be an issue, theyre both past that small sling period.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Buffalo Ts (Feb 19, 2020)

cold blood said:


> i would personally have them in 16oz deli cups for at least one more molt, if not two....but like i said, as long as you are confident they wont escape, it shouldnt really be an issue, theyre both past that small sling period.


Appreciate the info as always!


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## cold blood (Feb 19, 2020)

no prob.

Reactions: Like 1


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## viper69 (Feb 20, 2020)

BadDann said:


> Obviously wild T's are on the Earth's surface.


What does this mean above?


Smaller setups increase prey/predator interactions, and allow one to keep a better eye on the specimen.

This is particularly important with ambush predators that wait for food.

At that size T I keep mine in 16 oz delis.

A keen eyed keeper could keep that setup, a lazy or less attention to detail person could end up with a dead T. Seen both before.


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## Buffalo Ts (Feb 21, 2020)

viper69 said:


> What does this mean above?
> 
> 
> Smaller setups increase prey/predator interactions, and allow one to keep a better eye on the specimen.
> ...


It means that wild Ts are on the surface in their naturally. They do create their own microhabitat on the surface. I haven't looked into much primary literature on the habitats and behavior of wild opportunistic burrowing terrestrial Ts. Eventually a T would leave it's burrow in search of food if food didn't come to it. Of course, this would pose a risk to the T being out in the open. 

Ive kept my 1.5ish pulchra in 6x6 for a little over a month now and haven't had an issue, not to say that there couldn't be an issue. It mostly stays in it's burrow. I've included enough cover that it should be comfortable moving about if it feels necessary. 

If the pulchra is hungry, it seems to wait with it's legs hanging out the burrow . Of course, if a T doesn't want to leave it's burrow, and food isn't making its way to it, it could become a problem. 

It has excavated the pre made burrow (cork bark) to it's liking. I am able to keep an eye on it at all times. 

My original question was more along the lines of any major drawback of a slightly large enclosure.


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## Vanessa (Feb 21, 2020)

The sizes provided are guidelines only. Arboreals will likely be fine in larger enclosures. Fossorials might need larger enclosures. Even some terrestrials will be far happier in larger enclosures. You have to watch your tarantula and see how it reacts to the enclosure that they are in. Do they do a lot of wandering around? Do they seem to get defensive as soon as you open the lid? Do they immediately barricade themselves into their burrow and not come out? Are you having trouble keeping them on the moist side? Does it seem as if they aren't catching food anymore?
You have to observe their behaviour and perhaps make adjustments to suite them on an individual basis.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Buffalo Ts (Feb 21, 2020)

Vanessa said:


> The sizes provided are guidelines only. Arboreals will likely be fine in larger enclosures. Fossorials might need larger enclosures. Even some terrestrials will be far happier in larger enclosures. You have to watch your tarantula and see how it reacts to the enclosure that they are in. Do they do a lot of wandering around? Do they seem to get defensive as soon as you open the lid? Do they immediately barricade themselves into their burrow and not come out? Are you having trouble keeping them on the moist side? Does it seem as if they aren't catching food anymore?
> You have to observe their behaviour and perhaps make adjustments to suite them on an individual basis.


I agree with you there. It's about making adjustments, and being an attentive keeper. I am able to look at my Ts everyday, and make sure their needs are met. I just like sparking conversation about micro adjustments that can be made to give Ts the best environment possible!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Vanisher (Feb 21, 2020)

BadDann said:


> Hey all,
> View attachment 334528
> View attachment 334528
> 
> ...


Yes there are many reasons why slings should be housed in small enclosures

I. They feel more stressed and less secure in a large enclosure. (Probably cos large areas in the wild means bigger chance they are eaten by predators?)

2. They tends to burrow and dissipear in a large enclosure. Probably feel more prone to "get away from predators? See previous point

3. You have much less control over feeding the smal sling in a large enclosure, you have a harder time monitir its growth

4. Harder to know where the sling is, due to the massive ammount of substrate in a large container VS a small container

5. Bigger chance the sling dissipears and escape from a larger container if it has premade ventilation holes like a kritterkeeper

6. Less control over moisture degree

20 years of tarantula keeping and experience with slings and all kinds of enclosure sizes is telling me that i am right!

Reactions: Helpful 1


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## cold blood (Feb 21, 2020)

BadDann said:


> It means that wild Ts are on the surface in their naturally.


And survival rates in the wild to adulthood are around 2%...not something to use as an example....in captivity these numbers are basically flip flopped, with most ts easily reaching adulthood.

House them in over size enclosures and you are uncreasing the need to hide, decreasing the prey drive and slowing growth....slow growth in its self isnt deadly, but getting slings out of that more vulnerable stage faster can certainly increase survival.

The wild is a terrible example to compare to captivity.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Vanisher (Feb 21, 2020)

BadDann said:


> Hey all,
> View attachment 334528
> View attachment 334528
> 
> ...


Especially slowgrowing speicies like Grammostola slings should be housed in delicups. The only speicies i tend to give little larger than normal enclosures are very fastgrowing speicies like P cancerides or similair, otherwise you'll have to rehouse them very often

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Buffalo Ts (Feb 21, 2020)

Vanisher said:


> Yes there are many reasons why slings should be housed in small enclosures
> 
> I. They feel more stressed and less secure in a large enclosure. (Probably cos large areas in the wild means bigger chance they are eaten by predators?)
> 
> ...


I definitely understand the logic for small slings, especially under 1.5inches.
For instance housing my .5 inch sling in my 6x6 container would be very problematic. My .5 sling is in a 3oz deli cup.
My 1inch slings are in a 16oz deli cup, and I plan on keeping them in there till they At least 1.5inches. but since I received these Ts at around 1.5+ inches, I wanted to not have to rehouse shortly.



cold blood said:


> And survival rates in the wild to adulthood are around 2%...not something to use as an example....in captivity these numbers are basically flip flopped, with most ts easily reaching adulthood.
> 
> House them in over size enclosures and you are uncreasing the need to hide, decreasing the prey drive and slowing growth....slow growth in its self isnt deadly, but getting slings out of that more vulnerable stage faster can certainly increase survival.
> 
> The wild is a terrible example to compare to captivity.


So would you suggest rehousing my 2 grammostolas into a 16oz deli cuo. Both 1.5ish. give or take.


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## cold blood (Feb 21, 2020)

BadDann said:


> So would you suggest rehousing my 2 grammostolas into a 16oz deli cuo. Both 1.75ish. give or take.


That would be what I would do.












Deli Cup Setup for Terrestrial Slings 1-3"



__ cold blood
__ Mar 13, 2017
__ 6
__
enclosure




						Deli cup set up for terrestrial slings 1-3"
					
















Resized952017031295225612



__ cold blood
__ Mar 13, 2017
__ 3



						Re-housed 40 min ago...already blocked the hide, moved the plant, dug a hole (behind the glare)...


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## Vanisher (Feb 21, 2020)

BadDann said:


> I definitely understand the logic for small slings, especially under 1.5inches.
> For instance housing my .5 inch sling in my 6x6 container would be very problematic. My .5 sling is in a 3oz deli cup.
> My 1inch slings are in a 16oz deli cup, and I plan on keeping them in there till they At least 1.5inches. but since I received these Ts at around 1.5+ inches, I wanted to not have to rehouse shortly.


A 1,5 inch Grammostola can be in a appropriate sized delicup for very very long time


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## Buffalo Ts (Feb 21, 2020)

Vanisher said:


> A 1,5 inch Grammostola can be in a appropriate sized delicup for very very long time


Ok, I can rehouse them tonight. This is what my 1inch slings are in



cold blood said:


> That would be what I would do.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Will rehouse tonight in one of these I made

Reactions: Like 1


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## Vanisher (Feb 21, 2020)

Looks like a perfect sized enclosure for it. That is so much better than putting it in that oversized Kritterkeeper and wait for it to grow in to it. They moult very seldom and dont put on massive ammount of size like an Acanthoscurria geniculata

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## Buffalo Ts (Feb 21, 2020)

cold blood said:


> no prob.


How does this look? Any modifications?

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## cold blood (Feb 21, 2020)

BadDann said:


> How does this look? Any modifications?


perfect

Reactions: Like 1


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## viper69 (Feb 22, 2020)

BadDann said:


> It means that wild Ts are on the surface in their naturally. They do create their own microhabitat on the surface. I haven't looked into much primary literature on the habitats and behavior of wild opportunistic burrowing terrestrial Ts. Eventually a T would leave it's burrow in search of food if food didn't come to it. Of course, this would pose a risk to the T being out in the open.
> 
> Ive kept my 1.5ish pulchra in 6x6 for a little over a month now and haven't had an issue, not to say that there couldn't be an issue. It mostly stays in it's burrow. I've included enough cover that it should be comfortable moving about if it feels necessary.
> 
> ...



I wasn't sure if you were referencing something that is often said here such as "well of course they can live in a large tank, they do live in the entire country of Brazil"

Which of course is a crazy statement, because their range isn't the entire country of whatever species we are talking about.


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