# My black Widow



## DavidD (Jan 15, 2009)

This my black widow I have raised her scince she was very small. She is very docile


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## Boanerges (Jan 15, 2009)

She's pretty


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## cascade (Jan 16, 2009)

*man*

dam man you are insane to hold the black widow like that you now they can end up killing you dead....but very nice looking though..>


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## DavidD (Jan 16, 2009)

90% of the time w/ antivenom you live. 85 percent without


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## IrishKnight (Jan 16, 2009)

damn,what a beauty!but id crap my pants if that thing got anywhere near me!is hse pregnant?her butt is hugee!!


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## Craig (Jan 16, 2009)

Most healthy adults will not die from a black widow bite anyways.  I have books upon books about the subject.


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## Venom (Jan 16, 2009)

All possibility of death aside....IT HURTS LIKE NOBODY'S BUSINESS!!!!!! Widow bites are almost always agonizing, whether or not they become life-threatening.

That said, you have a beautiful specimen there!


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## cjm1991 (Jan 16, 2009)

I agree, nice widow. I cant honestly complain about somebody handling anything nor do I care too. He knows the risk and takes them, his decision. Very plump.


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## Rick McJimsey (Jan 16, 2009)

DavidD said:


> 90% of the time w/ antivenom you live. 85 percent without


Wow! 10% of the time you die, fascinating!
And without antivenin, you die 15% of the time!
Amazing!


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## davidbarber1 (Jan 16, 2009)

David, I love the red pattern streak. All we have around here is the typical "hourglass" marking. Nice.

David


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## jsloan (Jan 16, 2009)

Venom said:


> All possibility of death aside....IT HURTS LIKE NOBODY'S BUSINESS!!!!!! Widow bites are almost always agonizing, whether or not they become life-threatening.


Yup, the pain and complications from a widow bite can be excruciating.  These spiders should not be underestimated.


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## cjm1991 (Jan 16, 2009)

Im not really sure the last pic was a good idea... I just see an arguement cooking up. Ill just say, I hold some hot stuff, but I dont hold widows or venomous spiders. I think they are unpredictable, just me though.


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## buthus (Jan 16, 2009)

cjm1991.. hey man do us a big favor and make a list of "hot stuff" thats predictable ..would ya? 


anyway.. 

Lookin a bit variolus maybe ...maybe?  Whats the glass look like?


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## Venom (Jan 16, 2009)

DavidD said:


> 90% of the time w/ antivenom you live. 85 percent without


Um..no. 

The fatality rate, averaged across all age and health demographics, is 4 - 6% for most Latrodectus spp. , without treatment. Some individuals will have lower than a 4-6% risk, some have much higher. Know your health. Modern antivenom saves most lives that fall within the danger zone.


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## buthus (Jan 16, 2009)

Venom said:


> Um..no.
> 
> The fatality rate, averaged across all age and health demographics, is 4 - 6% for most Latrodectus spp. , without treatment. Some individuals will have lower than a 4-6% risk, some have much higher. Know your health. Modern antivenom saves most lives that fall within the danger zone.


World wide? cause... whens the last time someone died via latro bite in the USofA?  20yrs? I have to guess that those stats are based on old data and would probably be reduced greatly just based on medical advancements in general (not including anti venom).  
I still dont get how people get tagged by these things ...ive had so much exposure and I havent been bit proper yet.  Warren's son Dylan (scabies trouble makers) got tagged not too long ago at school while sitting on a picnic table.  Thing didnt like where he was resting his leg and she buggered him really good!    Nasty lookin wound and bruising and I think he suffered some decent pain, but got through it OK ...hes tougher now ...and cooler  .


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## Widowman10 (Jan 17, 2009)

yeah, buth, i think only 1 person has died from a widow bite _in the last 20 years!_ hardly ever ever fatal, but hurts like a mother from what i hear. cross my fingers and hope not to get bit while i'm foolin with em. 

anyway, very nice lookin widow you got there. love the 2nd pic. would be sweet to get some nice, crisp pics too.


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## Venom (Jan 17, 2009)

buthus said:


> World wide? cause... whens the last time someone died via latro bite in the USofA?  20yrs? I have to guess that those stats are based on old data and would probably be reduced greatly just based on medical advancements in general (not including anti venom).
> I still dont get how people get tagged by these things ...ive had so much exposure and I havent been bit proper yet.  Warren's son Dylan (scabies trouble makers) got tagged not too long ago at school while sitting on a picnic table.  Thing didnt like where he was resting his leg and she buggered him really good!    Nasty lookin wound and bruising and I think he suffered some decent pain, but got through it OK ...hes tougher now ...and cooler  .


People die from Latrodectus bites fairly regularly, just not in the USA. We have so many hospitals, spaced closely together, with stocks of Latro spp. antivenom, as well as supportive treatments such as muscle relaxants, anti-histamines, and the like. In places where medical treatment is not readily or properly available, the death rate is 4 - 6%. That comes to 1 in 20, averaged across all age and health demographics. Just a couple years ago, two Albanian men in Croatia died from L. tredecimguttatus bites:

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/333/7562/278-a

Now, some people will only have a 2 - 3% chance of death, due to being healthy, strong and of middling years. Others may be pushing 10 - 20% if they have health risks such as heart disease, hypertension, cystic fibrosis, emphysema, MS, or any form of cardio-respiratory, neurological, or muscular condition that weakens those systems. Or, if they are below 15 years of age, or above 60. You see, just how many people are NOT fine? It's only the middling-ages, and healthy persons, who have the lowest chances of fatality from an untreated bite. Fall anywhere outside that line, and your survival rate just declined. And...even if you are 35 and healthy, you CAN still die! There is NO guarantee with a species this venomous!

And, as always, anaphylaxis is a REAL possibility with this species, especially so as the venom's primary toxin alpha-Latrotoxin, is a 120 Kda protein....which is massively huge, and therefore highly "visible" to your immune system. Even in the USA, you can still die...because the only real advantage we have here is our medical system. If you are out in the boonies hiking or whatever, and get bitten...and can't get aid within an hour's travel, you are in trouble.

The argument that "nobody's died in forever, ergo, not so dangerous" holds ZERO water, because nobody has died from Atrax / Hadronyche spp. in about 20 years, also due to excellent antivenom, and supportive therapy. I don't think you're going to call THEM "not so bad," now are you?


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## cjm1991 (Jan 17, 2009)

buthus said:


> cjm1991.. hey man do us a big favor and make a list of "hot stuff" thats predictable ..would ya?
> 
> 
> anyway..
> ...



I guess thats true :wall: Its probably because I dont know as much or study as much on true spiders that makes me a little more intemidated by them. I was wondering the same thing though.


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## Widowman10 (Jan 17, 2009)

while i agree with you venom on everything there (i can't argue about overseas and such), i will say that i really never hear of anyone in the US going to the hospital b/c of a latro bite. heard of people getting bitten (rarely) and these people didn't go to the hospital, and certainly did not recieve any antivenin. it def is readily available though, and hospitals have decreased the chance. 

it is a very dangerous species regardless. caution should be used 
*even if caution is not practiced by this writer...*


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## jsloan (Jan 17, 2009)

Widowman10 said:


> i will say that i really never hear of anyone in the US going to the hospital b/c of a latro bite.


I read a story on the net just within the past couple of weeks or so, either on Fox or CNN, about a teenager who was bitten on his shoulder by a black widow that was in the box of a dishwasher he was helping unpack for his relatives.  It bit him on the shoulder (he hardly noticed the bite), but the symptoms became so bad he had to go to the hospital for treatment, antivenom, etc.  Apparently the spider was properly identified, and the kid still has the dead spider.  Anyway, the guy is still feeling the effects of the bite several weeks or a month later.  He had been planning to play on a varisity sports team at his high school this semester, but the effects of the bite were so bad he's had to stay off the team for now.  Muscle pains and that sort of thing.  I looked for the link, did a search, but I can't find it now. Maybe someone else can.


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## jsloan (Jan 17, 2009)

Here are a few recent accounts of teenagers being bitten by _*Latrodectus sp.*_ and having to seek medical attention:

http://www.canada.com/reginaleaderpost/news/story.html?id=1f599819-cc8d-464b-995f-eb3e5b1af01b

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2008/09/black_widow_spider_sidelines_b.html

http://www.standard.net/live/news/141881/

(The only thing I don't accept in this latter story is the testimony that the spider jumped at the mother as she tried to kill it - I think what happened is the mother was swatting at it with her shoe and missed the spider and the impact next to the spider sent it into the air a little bit, perhaps in a direction toward the mother.  The panicking mother probably interpreted that as the spider "jumping" at her.)


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## Widowman10 (Jan 17, 2009)

or maybe the widow's drag web got caught and whipped it up? i've had that happen. interesting story.


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