# The trapdoor who won't trapdoor :(



## Carlo Mendoza (Jan 22, 2016)

Last Jan. 19, 2016, Tuesday, I purchased my 1st trapdoor spider, around 2cm, black, unsexed, the genus/species and origin is unknown (I'm from the Philippines).

According to the previous owner, he had it for almost 2 months already and during that time, it never made a burrow. He also dug a pre-made burrow but the trapdoor never utilized it given that the substrate was moist, with leaf litter scattered, and kept in a dark and undisturbed room. He said that the spider never took B.lateralis 1 week old nymphs as food and was purely water-fed.

Now that he's under my care, I placed it in a cylinder container with air holes on the lid. The substrate was moist, around 8 inches deep (100% coco peat) and the diameter around 4 inches. I also put leaf litter and a pre-made burrow using my finger. I placed this in a dark, quiet, and undisturbed place... Again, he never utilized this so far. He doesn't move around much unless poked with something and how I left him is how I'll see him the next day.

I read that males don't burrow but for a 2cm trapdoor, I don't think he's already mature to wander around. He's been with me for 3 days already.




I'm worried.


----------



## Chris LXXIX (Jan 22, 2016)

I'm not into those (even if they look cool) so i can't help much, sorry. But from the pic looks like (but i doubt he/she is) _Cteniza sauvagesi_, a _Mygalomorphae _"available" here in the wild of Sardegna and Corsica (France) islands.

What i know about their care is... basically, what you did. So lots of inches of substrate in a cross ventilation enclosure like you used. 
Don't know also if males doesn't burrow, but i presume yes due to the particular nature of Trapdoors (can be wrong here, uh... my main field is _Theraphosidae/ _T's).

Don't worry, you are in the right place, however. Best of luck man.


----------



## Sam_Peanuts (Jan 22, 2016)

You'd probably have better luck if this were posted in the "True Spiders & Other Arachnids" section since this is not a tarantula.

I only cared for one of those a couple of months for a friend about a decade ago and all I can remember is that it made a burrow on what was likely dry substrate(that could very well have been completely wrong, neither my friend nor I knew much about them), was pretty good at holding the door shut when she didn't want to be disturbed and that is was a real poop canon(the wall was covered in poop next to his/her enclosure).

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## BobGrill (Jan 23, 2016)

I believe they require a certain type of substrate to burrow, so just sticking them on plain-old coco fiber or peat or whatever probably won't do. I agree though that you're better off asking in the True Spiders & Other Arachnids, as suggested above.


----------



## Ellenantula (Jan 24, 2016)

There was a trapdoor at Repticon when I went -- I really wanted it but decided I knew nothing about them and might kill it in my ignorance.  It looked like just a tall 32 ounce deli cup full of dirt, so no idea what kind of trapdoor -- it was simply labeled 'trapdoor' and I don't remember the price the seller wanted.  I think they are pretty cool spiders though.  Maybe one day....


----------



## Sam_Peanuts (Jan 24, 2016)

They're able to use coco fiber as a burrow, that's what the one I was taking care of has as substrate.


----------



## Carlo Mendoza (Jan 24, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> I'm not into those (even if they look cool) so i can't help much, sorry. But from the pic looks like (but i doubt he/she is) _Cteniza sauvagesi_, a _Mygalomorphae _"available" here in the wild of Sardegna and Corsica (France) islands.
> 
> What i know about their care is... basically, what you did. So lots of inches of substrate in a cross ventilation enclosure like you used.
> Don't know also if males doesn't burrow, but i presume yes due to the particular nature of Trapdoors (can be wrong here, uh... my main field is _Theraphosidae/ _T's).
> ...


thankyou.. unfortunately, no burrow until now. but i'm glad that he already ate a nymph b.lateralis. thanks again!


----------



## Carlo Mendoza (Jan 24, 2016)

Sam_Peanuts said:


> You'd probably have better luck if this were posted in the "True Spiders & Other Arachnids" section since this is not a tarantula.
> 
> I only cared for one of those a couple of months for a friend about a decade ago and all I can remember is that it made a burrow on what was likely dry substrate(that could very well have been completely wrong, neither my friend nor I knew much about them), was pretty good at holding the door shut when she didn't want to be disturbed and that is was a real poop canon(the wall was covered in poop next to his/her enclosure).


i guess you're right, is there some way i can move this post?


----------



## Carlo Mendoza (Jan 24, 2016)

BobGrill said:


> I believe they require a certain type of substrate to burrow, so just sticking them on plain-old coco fiber or peat or whatever probably won't do. I agree though that you're better off asking in the True Spiders & Other Arachnids, as suggested above.


i wish to move this post. is there some way?


----------



## Carlo Mendoza (Jan 24, 2016)

Sam_Peanuts said:


> They're able to use coco fiber as a burrow, that's what the one I was taking care of has as substrate.


thankyou for the valuable info. unfortunately, no burrow until now.


----------



## Carlo Mendoza (Jan 24, 2016)

Ellenantula said:


> There was a trapdoor at Repticon when I went -- I really wanted it but decided I knew nothing about them and might kill it in my ignorance.  It looked like just a tall 32 ounce deli cup full of dirt, so no idea what kind of trapdoor -- it was simply labeled 'trapdoor' and I don't remember the price the seller wanted.  I think they are pretty cool spiders though.  Maybe one day....


then that shows how responsible you are as a pet keeper. research first. i did my research, unfortunately, i really don't know why he won't burrow. though i have a few guesses.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Ellenantula (Jan 24, 2016)

Carlo Mendoza said:


> then that shows how responsible you are as a pet keeper. research first. i did my research, unfortunately, i really don't know why he won't burrow. though i have a few guesses.


Fingers crossed yours will figure it out and burrow.  Best of luck with yours -- I am a bit jealous!


----------



## Carlo Mendoza (Jan 24, 2016)

you shouldn't be. once i see him burrow or find out what's wrong, i'll tell you so that you don't encounter this (i hope you don't). thanks bud!


----------



## Carlo Mendoza (Jan 24, 2016)

Ellenantula said:


> Fingers crossed yours will figure it out and burrow.  Best of luck with yours -- I am a bit jealous!


you shouldn't be. once i see him burrow or find out what's wrong, i'll tell you so that you don't encounter this (i hope you don't). thanks bud!


----------



## tonypace2009 (Jan 24, 2016)

Carlo Mendoza said:


> Last Jan. 19, 2016, Tuesday, I purchased my 1st trapdoor spider, around 2cm, black, unsexed, the genus/species and origin is unknown (I'm from the Philippines).
> 
> According to the previous owner, he had it for almost 2 months already and during that time, it never made a burrow. He also dug a pre-made burrow but the trapdoor never utilized it given that the substrate was moist, with leaf litter scattered, and kept in a dark and undisturbed room. He said that the spider never took B.lateralis 1 week old nymphs as food and was purely water-fed.
> 
> ...


Coco fiber doesn't seem to be there favariot substrate but I do have one housed in it  She has moved 3 times. I much prefer a topsoil and peat mix for trapdoors with a thin layer of clay at the bottom of enclosure. Be careful with topsoil I got some that contained mushrooms and ended up unexpectedly transferring my trapdoor to another enclosure and that's why one of my females ended up in straight coco fiber substrate. As far as borrowing make sure starter hole is just big enough for it to fit not to big and about a inch down. A trick I use to get my trapdoors to burrow where I want them is to use a 1" plastic pipe fitting and place it over the hole with the starter hole at the edge of fitting. and put the spider inside it will walk around the inside until it comes to the hole and will then usually go right in. They can't climb the plastic. You can also prekill a cricket and place in fitting as well it may eat it otherwise it will construct burrow first which can take a while anywhere between a couple days to a couple of weeks or longer. Welcome to the world of pet holes.

Reactions: Informative 1


----------



## EDED (Jan 24, 2016)

Many years ago I had a few red trap door spiders 

I now remember them taking awhile to construct a burrow. 

Yours will eventually and I like tonypace idea of reducing the surface area  temporarily for it to utilize pre made burrow


----------



## micheldied (Jan 25, 2016)

3 days isn't a long time. Some take a while to start burrowing. Also, most of these are wild caught, so it could just not be doing well. Usually, trapdoors that don't burrow just perish eventually. Did it feed at all in your friend's care?


----------



## Carlo Mendoza (Jan 25, 2016)

micheldied said:


> 3 days isn't a long time. Some take a while to start burrowing. Also, most of these are wild caught, so it could just not be doing well. Usually, trapdoors that don't burrow just perish eventually. Did it feed at all in your friend's care?


my friend said it won't take b.lats nymphs.. but yesterday i used tongs to offer it one, he took and ate it. so i'm glad. i hope he doesn't.... perish...

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Carlo Mendoza (Jan 25, 2016)

EDED said:


> Many years ago I had a few red trap door spiders
> 
> I now remember them taking awhile to construct a burrow.
> 
> Yours will eventually and I like tonypace idea of reducing the surface area  temporarily for it to utilize pre made burrow


thanks mate!


----------



## Carlo Mendoza (Jan 25, 2016)

tonypace2009 said:


> Coco fiber doesn't seem to be there favariot substrate but I do have one housed in it  She has moved 3 times. I much prefer a topsoil and peat mix for trapdoors with a thin layer of clay at the bottom of enclosure. Be careful with topsoil I got some that contained mushrooms and ended up unexpectedly transferring my trapdoor to another enclosure and that's why one of my females ended up in straight coco fiber substrate. As far as borrowing make sure starter hole is just big enough for it to fit not to big and about a inch down. A trick I use to get my trapdoors to burrow where I want them is to use a 1" plastic pipe fitting and place it over the hole with the starter hole at the edge of fitting. and put the spider inside it will walk around the inside until it comes to the hole and will then usually go right in. They can't climb the plastic. You can also prekill a cricket and place in fitting as well it may eat it otherwise it will construct burrow first which can take a while anywhere between a couple days to a couple of weeks or longer. Welcome to the world of pet holes.


i actually have an obligatory burrower T, more like pet substrate if you please haha. well, thanks for the advice! he already ate a b.lats nymph, i'm glad.


----------



## Carlo Mendoza (Jan 25, 2016)

tonypace2009 said:


> Coco fiber doesn't seem to be there favariot substrate but I do have one housed in it  She has moved 3 times. I much prefer a topsoil and peat mix for trapdoors with a thin layer of clay at the bottom of enclosure. Be careful with topsoil I got some that contained mushrooms and ended up unexpectedly transferring my trapdoor to another enclosure and that's why one of my females ended up in straight coco fiber substrate. As far as borrowing make sure starter hole is just big enough for it to fit not to big and about a inch down. A trick I use to get my trapdoors to burrow where I want them is to use a 1" plastic pipe fitting and place it over the hole with the starter hole at the edge of fitting. and put the spider inside it will walk around the inside until it comes to the hole and will then usually go right in. They can't climb the plastic. You can also prekill a cricket and place in fitting as well it may eat it otherwise it will construct burrow first which can take a while anywhere between a couple days to a couple of weeks or longer. Welcome to the world of pet holes.


btw, he won't move much unless poked with something. i think i need to guide him right in the hole.


----------



## micheldied (Jan 25, 2016)

You don't need to guide it. If it's going to burrow, it will. It's how they live. Good luck with it.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## pannaking22 (Jan 25, 2016)

Just another thought, but some species prefer substrate at an angle to burrow into. I used to have a couple species that didn't really burrow until I set them up like that. But even then, it still took them a couple days to settle in.


----------



## Hisserdude (Jan 25, 2016)

Now I don't know much about trapdoor spiders, but I think coconut fiber is not a good substrate for them. They need something more like actual soil, potting soil or clay mixed in with sand would probably work.


----------



## Carlo Mendoza (Jan 26, 2016)

micheldied said:


> You don't need to guide it. If it's going to burrow, it will. It's how they live. Good luck with it.


thanks guy!


----------



## Carlo Mendoza (Jan 26, 2016)

pannaking22 said:


> Just another thought, but some species prefer substrate at an angle to burrow into. I used to have a couple species that didn't really burrow until I set them up like that. But even then, it still took them a couple days to settle in.


i think i need to make a small hill then, or maybe a few slopes. i'll try. thanks mate!


----------



## Carlo Mendoza (Jan 26, 2016)

Hisserdude said:


> Now I don't know much about trapdoor spiders, but I think coconut fiber is not a good substrate for them. They need something more like actual soil, potting soil or clay mixed in with sand would probably work.


i think i will find a suitable mix, i have fertilizer-free potting soil and coco peat for now. i don't like using vermiculite 'cos they seem dusty.


----------



## Ambly (Jan 27, 2016)

These guys, unlike some T's, really ball up and throw their substrate to clear their burrow - that is essential.  Something loamy and clay like would be good to throw in there, too.  If you can find a spot outside with some good clay and source it responsibly, that'd be a good option to mix in with other substrate to lighten it a bit.  Keep on, you're doing well.

You're not alone in this struggle.  I've not been on here in many months, but is there still a suggestions area or care sheets?

There should really be a general trapdoor care sheet... suggested substrates for each trapdoor family AND suggestions as to how to determine what substrate may work should you not know the species.  They seem to be treated as "just throw it in peat moss"

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## stevoblue (Jan 27, 2016)

This is what I did for my Cyphonisia sp. a week before I got it.
 I made a mixture of about half coconut coir and sphagnum peat moss from a garden center. (Not the sphagnum moss from the pet store.) I wet it until  squeezing a handful produced a good tight clump. I put a layer in the enclosure and pressed it down. I kept doing this until I reached the height that i wanted. I then poked a pencil at an angle to the bottom. I then compacted it a little more. Before I unpacked the spider i took out the pencil and made a shallow thumb tip size indentation over the pencil hole. The spider settled down on the imprint and had its door made a couple of days later.


----------



## Carlo Mendoza (Jan 28, 2016)

Ambly said:


> These guys, unlike some T's, really ball up and throw their substrate to clear their burrow - that is essential.  Something loamy and clay like would be good to throw in there, too.  If you can find a spot outside with some good clay and source it responsibly, that'd be a good option to mix in with other substrate to lighten it a bit.  Keep on, you're doing well.
> 
> You're not alone in this struggle.  I've not been on here in many months, but is there still a suggestions area or care sheets?
> 
> There should really be a general trapdoor care sheet... suggested substrates for each trapdoor family AND suggestions as to how to determine what substrate may work should you not know the species.  They seem to be treated as "just throw it in peat moss"


exactly, can't find a very good caresheet regarding these magnificent creatures. i'm relying solely on random caresheets then mixing up the ideas all together.


----------



## Carlo Mendoza (Jan 28, 2016)

stevoblue said:


> This is what I did for my Cyphonisia sp. a week before I got it.
> I made a mixture of about half coconut coir and sphagnum peat moss from a garden center. (Not the sphagnum moss from the pet store.) I wet it until  squeezing a handful produced a good tight clump. I put a layer in the enclosure and pressed it down. I kept doing this until I reached the height that i wanted. I then poked a pencil at an angle to the bottom. I then compacted it a little more. Before I unpacked the spider i took out the pencil and made a shallow thumb tip size indentation over the pencil hole. The spider settled down on the imprint and had its door made a couple of days later.


wow this is awesome, i have an update, posting it right now, hang on.


----------



## Carlo Mendoza (Jan 28, 2016)

UPDATE 9 days later: still no burrow and trapdoor, but today, the trapdoor made some kind of small room above the substrate, enclosed in web and a thin layer of the substrate itself. i don't know exactly what it is. there are no entrances or whatsoever. he encased himself inside it. here are the images i shot just now...


----------



## Ambly (Jan 28, 2016)

your best bet is to avoid caresheets all together and try and learn about it's natural environment, where it came from, etc. - that'll help guide you to proper substrate.  Your trappie might be molting if it's done that - I'd say it's a good sign for now and to leave it be while you set it up another enclosure


----------



## Carlo Mendoza (Jan 28, 2016)

Ambly said:


> your best bet is to avoid caresheets all together and try and learn about it's natural environment, where it came from, etc. - that'll help guide you to proper substrate.  Your trappie might be molting if it's done that - I'd say it's a good sign for now and to leave it be while you set it up another enclosure


oh, but he just ate yesterday, i'm not sure if he's pre-molt already. but if he will stay in there for 2 weeks, maybe  i need to find potting soil and clay then. i'm gonna mix these 2 with coco peat. hope i'll do fine :/


----------



## Ambly (Jan 28, 2016)

They're survivors. He'll be okay.  Make sure your substrate holes some form - try balling up a little bit in your hand - and you will be fine! Good luck and keep us updated.


----------



## Smokehound714 (Jan 30, 2016)

many trapdoors in general strongly prefer clay.  Especially ctenizidae.

  Pure clay- pulverized into a fine powder, then saturated well is much better.   Introduce them while the clay is still moist-ish. they sculpt and tunnel during moist conditions.


  One important note-  Trapdoors enter a perpetual state of stress outside their burrow.  Without a burrow it will not live for long.


----------



## Carlo Mendoza (Jan 30, 2016)

Ambly said:


> They're survivors. He'll be okay.  Make sure your substrate holes some form - try balling up a little bit in your hand - and you will be fine! Good luck and keep us updated.


thanks mate!


----------



## Carlo Mendoza (Jan 30, 2016)

Smokehound714 said:


> many trapdoors in general strongly prefer clay.  Especially ctenizidae.
> 
> Pure clay- pulverized into a fine powder, then saturated well is much better.   Introduce them while the clay is still moist-ish. they sculpt and tunnel during moist conditions.
> 
> ...


i am in search of chemical free gardening clay right now.. thank you mate!


----------



## Ambly (Jan 30, 2016)

Np - if you live in an area where there is clay outside and in an area where pesticide isn't sprayed, you could harvest some.  There's a thread here somewhere about things to think about when harvesting clay as to not destroy habitat for wild spiders, cause erosion, etc.

Seeing as you only have one guy, you might only need a bit to mix with soil to create a good, form holding substrate.


----------



## Smokehound714 (Jan 31, 2016)

Bentonite clay powder would work well.  you can find it at health food stores, but it would probably be cheaper if you purchase it from somewhere that doesnt sell it as a snake oil supplement lol


----------



## Carlo Mendoza (Jan 31, 2016)

Ambly said:


> Np - if you live in an area where there is clay outside and in an area where pesticide isn't sprayed, you could harvest some.  There's a thread here somewhere about things to think about when harvesting clay as to not destroy habitat for wild spiders, cause erosion, etc.
> 
> Seeing as you only have one guy, you might only need a bit to mix with soil to create a good, form holding substrate.


would clay be available in gardening stores? 'cos i live in an urban area. not much soil around, and clay less likely.


----------



## Carlo Mendoza (Jan 31, 2016)

Smokehound714 said:


> Bentonite clay powder would work well.  you can find it at health food stores, but it would probably be cheaper if you purchase it from somewhere that doesnt sell it as a snake oil supplement lol


i haven't heard of bentonite but if it's guaranteed safe for our arachnids, i'll check out the store.


----------



## Carlo Mendoza (Feb 5, 2016)

it's been 8 days since he encased himself. he's still inside that web/substrate capsule thingy. anyone got ideas? i saw movement after i used LED light, so i'm not very worried. i don't want to open her capsule and stress her


----------



## tonypace2009 (Feb 7, 2016)

Carlo Mendoza said:


> it's been 8 days since he encased himself. he's still inside that web/substrate capsule thingy. anyone got ideas? i saw movement after i used LED light, so i'm not very worried. i don't want to open her capsule and stress her


It is probably getting ready to molt inside that web capsule. Resist messing with it. Trapdoors can be frustrating. They are literally pet holes you only see them for a second every once in a while and then there gone for sometimes long periods of time. My job used to have me digging trenches through a large trapdoor population and I used to try to dig as many out as I could find to relocate .they seem to make capsules as you call it down in there burrow  to molt in so even though it has not burrowed it is probably going to try and molt first. I wouldn't worry .


----------



## Carlo Mendoza (Feb 7, 2016)

tonypace2009 said:


> It is probably getting ready to molt inside that web capsule. Resist messing with it. Trapdoors can be frustrating. They are literally pet holes you only see them for a second every once in a while and then there gone for sometimes long periods of time. My job used to have me digging trenches through a large trapdoor population and I used to try to dig as many out as I could find to relocate .they seem to make capsules as you call it down in there burrow  to molt in so even though it has not burrowed it is probably going to try and molt first. I wouldn't worry .


he wrapped himself since January 28, i expect pre-molts to take 2-3 weeks, i hope he'll do fine. thankyou!


----------



## Carlo Mendoza (Feb 18, 2016)

okay, here's the twist, it turns out i'm actually keeping a purse-web spider and not a trapdoor spider! thanks to a trusted T mentor from my local facebook group who goes by the name Heteroscodra Maculata! any opinions regarding this specie?


----------



## schmiggle (Feb 20, 2016)

Well, that explains quite a lot.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Ambly (Feb 23, 2016)

it'll either make it's home under bark or right up a wall - I'd give it a tall enclosure and still provide 5-8 inches of substrate.  I've got 3 in a ten gallon with a home made front opening lid.  You could easily go more simple.  You could prob even keep it open air, like a log sticking out of a 5 gallon bucket... it will never leave it's tube.


----------



## Carlo Mendoza (Feb 24, 2016)

Ambly said:


> it'll either make it's home under bark or right up a wall - I'd give it a tall enclosure and still provide 5-8 inches of substrate.  I've got 3 in a ten gallon with a home made front opening lid.  You could easily go more simple.  You could prob even keep it open air, like a log sticking out of a 5 gallon bucket... it will never leave it's tube.


are we talking of trapdoors? or purse-webs?


----------



## Hisserdude (Feb 25, 2016)

Carlo Mendoza said:


> are we talking of trapdoors? or purse-webs?


He's talking about purse-webs.


----------

