# Are Tarantulas intelligent?



## Mina (Jan 23, 2006)

Are tarantulas intelligent?  Do they act only on instinct?  Can they make choices?  Have moods?  Recognize the people who care for them?  What do you think?  We had this discussion at my job yesterday and most people who don't own tarantulas said that they have no intelligence or awareness of their surroundings.  Now I would like to know what the "spider people" think.


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## Windchaser (Jan 23, 2006)

*Moderator's note:*

As this topic comes up on a fairly regular basis and there are a ton of discussions (some rather heated) on the topic already, I will put a preemptive warning out there that this thread will be closed very quickly if it starts showing any signs of spiraling out of control and getting too heated.

Reactions: Like 2


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## strat321 (Jan 23, 2006)

as windchaser notes, this could quickly spiral out in many directions.

a good place to start would be rainer's book on spiders.  the section on behavior and learning is rather interesting.  
as an example: spiders can 'learn' about location of prey items, they can work around problems with web building.
definitions of learning need to be layed out...

good luck


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## Hedorah99 (Jan 23, 2006)

I'll state my belief. Most insects and arachnids have very simplistic brains that operate mainly on instinct. A lot of the the characteristics you have described are pretty much anthropocentric. I don't think any T will recognize you as it's "master" per se. Do a search on "How many people cuddle with their T's?" and you will see both sides of the debate and why Windchaser has already warned this thread. But basically, if you are looking for the qualities you have described, get a cat or dog. Tommy Agosta from 8 Legs Plus put it best. tarantulas are a lot like aquarium fish, cool to look at but you probably shouldn't handle them. (I am paraphrasing of course)


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## Stefan-V (Jan 23, 2006)

Tarantulas don't think, they don't recognize you as a person. It is said that they don't have good vision, in fact that they can only see a few inches.
In my opinion they only act in instinct, stimuli and routine. I have heard that some people claim that the decision-making is proof of the T' acting more than on stimulants and instinct, but for me thats just a theory.
Sure, some T's will come out of their hide when you open the lid and you think: "wow, he recognizes me and wants to give me a hug" But this is most likely not the case.


Stefan-V


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## Mina (Jan 23, 2006)

Oh I know what I think.  I just wondered what everyone else thinks.  As I said it was started by a discussion at work yesterday.  I don't try to cuddle my T's, I only handle them rarely and that usually in the course of caring for them.  The general thought was that they are bugs and bugs are stupid.  I wanted to know what other people thought.


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## Hedorah99 (Jan 23, 2006)

Mina said:
			
		

> Oh I know what I think.  I just wondered what everyone else thinks.  As I said it was started by a discussion at work yesterday.  I don't try to cuddle my T's, I only handle them rarely and that usually in the course of caring for them.  The general thought was that they are bugs and bugs are stupid.  I wanted to know what other people thought.



Stupid i s a harsh word. Instinctual is a better choice. Insect and arachnids do nothing that is not absolutuely necessary for them to live and perpetuate. Stupid animals generally don't make it very far via evolution.


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## Pennywise (Jan 23, 2006)

*Tarantulas*

Snakes, lizards are creatures with millions years of programmed instinct
dealing with their Survival, Predation, Mating and other necessary 
actions associated with successful continuation of their own species.
They are in fact Amazing animals, but they lack the ability to think,
decide, improvise etc.. In a way thinking is quite unnecessary for them.


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## rwfoss (Jan 23, 2006)

My two penny's...

I spoke with a very knowlegable tarantula hobbyist/dealer yesterday. He recalled a story of a very docile A. versicolor that he used to handle quite often. He never had a problem with this particular spider. Then the spider was bred and produced an egg sac. After this guy removed the versicolor's egg sac, she became aggressive. Even though that was over a year ago, the spider will immediately begin biting when someone attempts to hold her.

I'm not "voting" either way on the intelligence of T's, but I found this story to be interesting. 

Rick


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## bonesmama (Jan 23, 2006)

They are definately aware of thier surroundings, but with the brains they have I don't believe they have "intelligence"- rather than instinct. They are smart enough to ambush prey and build homes, but again-is it intelligence or instinct?


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## Scorpendra (Jan 23, 2006)

unless i'm mistaken, i remember reading that Ts are more 'intelligent' than most other inverts. but as everyone else said, invert intelligence and mammal intelligence are complete parrallels.


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## Nate (Jan 23, 2006)

Hedorah99 said:
			
		

> Stupid animals generally don't make it very far via evolution.


Yea, humans are the only ones that further "stupid" to breed.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## ancientscout (Jan 23, 2006)

*Tarantulas are stupid?*

Mina, simply put..tarantulas could not be too stupid. They have been around unchanged for some 350,000,000 years. 
Ancientscout


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## Merfolk (Jan 23, 2006)

Shure, you don't expect a T to come at you cheerfully with your slippers when you're back from work!!  

I read that they are second only to octopusses when it comes to 'intelligence' and they are a few accounts of T's piling objects to reach something, returning on owner's hand when transferred onto another person, doing specific task.... nothing very scientific and mesurable...  Like said above, they don't see or hear well, so even if they had the potential to be intelligent, they could never develop any skill from, like, watching an older animal or gathering datas from something they can't touch.. Same for taming, you can't really communicate with it anyway (some tryied drumming along but were soon unmasked impostors!!!) so I agree with forsaking the idea of training them. 

  I don't agree either on the fact that they are pure instinct. When behavior vary a lot between individuals in a same specie, and frequent handlers tell that they actually could have it used to them, it could be seen as some form of intelligence, but still limited. Portia spiders can remember the body language of prey insects and imitate it perfectly, and their skills doing so increases with age. But again, a strategy that is applied equaly by most individuals of a specy and changes very little over generations doesn't qualify as intelligence.

So, if your animal displays any behavior that looks totaly uninstinctive, you could be proud for it's probably a 8-legged Einstein, but still dumb compared to 90% of warm blooded animals (hamsters and forest hens are far LESS intelligent than T'S    )


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## Brian S (Jan 23, 2006)

I have a few spiders that come out of their retreats when I open the lid at feeding time. I am not sure that this is a "learned" thing or not. I have heard/read somewhere that tarantulas have large brains as far as inverts go. Obviously most (and perhaps all) of their actions are based on instinct alone but I still cant help but wonder if they are capable of learning a few simple things. We may never know.


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## Merfolk (Jan 23, 2006)

True, the mystery will forever prevail

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## stubby8th (Jan 24, 2006)

*Interesting little guys!*

There arn't enough threads on this subject, right? Well, why not . . . 

One who has kept, raised, observed, traded and collected tarantulas as I have done for many years gains a real sense for these animals. I have also had the oportunity to observe and interact with our native wild tarantulas, Aphonopema hentzi for a number seasons as well. Yes, one gains a knowlege of proper care of these animals, but also an ability to identify various moods and body language, as many will attest to. Now I am not pretending to bestow true problem solving intelligence here, but I am saying that those who claim to know for a fact that these animals are blind, dumb and instinctual automatans may not be giving enough credit. 

Some seem 'brighter' (or at least more interested in interacting) than others. For example, I have a B. smithy who is able to catch tossed crix in midair, a feat requiring some decent vision and coordination, not to mention the ability to quickly differentiate between feeding time and being picked up. 
My L. difficilus, who is normally very nervous and flicky, decided that she was going to walk up the side of her container and into my offered, open hand for no appearent reason, totally out of character. Mood? You be the judge.
Occasionally a wild A. hentzi, after being coaxed out of her hole will actually climb right into an offered hand. I had one, one time, emerge from her hole and tap my offered hand and sit there staring at me as if waiting for a resonse. When I didn't move it, she slowly went back down. The 'message' I came away with at the time was 'I don't see you as a threat, but I don't want to be disturbed'. Is it possible that this was simply some ingraned, instinctual auto response? Sure, but it hasn't happened before or since quite that way. 

I'm sure I can think of more examples of what I'm talking about, but this was just off the top of my head.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Scolopeon (Jan 24, 2006)

A species of spider I have found to be quite intellegent are the jumping spiders, they judge distance and use their eyes like telecopes and home in on prey, certainly clever for an invert. Still they are not really 'intellegent' in the sense we think.

They'll calculate how to get to their prey without it seeing them, and turn their body round scanning their environment.

I personally find these spiders really interesting especially the _portia_ generea ,
who hunts other spiders for its prey, she'll look at another spiders web (such as an orb) and will find a route to latch on to it and kill the spider sitting on the hub.

on flat spider webs she knows how to trip the wires so it runs out and then gets grabbed by her. She'll play games with her prey and move silently over the web until she gets her feast.

I saw a documentery about spiders, and was quite amazed at this species.

I was certainly surprised by how this spider catches its food.

The Portia Spider


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## G_Wright (Jan 24, 2006)

rwfoss said:
			
		

> My two penny's...
> 
> I spoke with a very knowlegable tarantula hobbyist/dealer yesterday. He recalled a story of a very docile A. versicolor that he used to handle quite often. He never had a problem with this particular spider. Then the spider was bred and produced an egg sac. After this guy removed the versicolor's egg sac, she became aggressive. Even though that was over a year ago, the spider will immediately begin biting when someone attempts to hold her.
> 
> ...



Any creature weather it be bug or mammel will not take kindly to have it's babies taken from it


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## Mina (Jan 24, 2006)

Okay guy and gals, clarification time.  I did not say tarantulas are stupid.  I said the general thought of the non tarantula people I talked to is that they are.  I do not think they are.  I'm not sure what their level of intelligence is and I'm sure you just can't compare intelligence in a tarantula and a dog.  Yes, my tarantulas will start moving toward the end of the tank they generally get fed in when the top opens.  But in the same way, my fish all swim to the top of the tank when I turn on the light.  I love my tarantulas, I see them do things that are different from each other and I may be giving them credit for personality that they don't have, I'm not sure.  It really does not matter, if someone came up with proof that they have no intelligence and are not capable of having personality, I would still love them anyway.  I wanted to know what other people think.  I really appreciate all the responses.


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## fscorpion (Jan 24, 2006)

No matter how I love invertebrates, speaking about intelligence in this group has no meaning at all!  
Actually the terms "intelligent" and "stupid "are terms that humans invented for other humans, so some individuals could be separated from others by using this metric system. So, humans treat intelligence as a quality and use it to show their superiority to other individuals, like: "I am smarter than you-I am a better person". I don't think this concept could be applied to tarantulas, because in their case "intelligence" should be measured between individuals of the same species, and there is no metric system for that (there isn't a real metric system even for humans-IQ tests!? lol... )
Measuring "intelligence" between a dog and a tarantulas has even less sense...
Tarantulas are simple animals, their brain is a simple ganglion not bigger than a pinhead. They have adapted to their environment in order to survive and that brain was enough for them. Other animals weren't such good predators and had to adapt in other ways. 
So, I think this whole concept has no sense at all, but at the end, people like to think different things, especially the ones that make them feel better. So, you hear many stories, "my cat saved my life" "My fish loves me" "my tarantula is different, she can feel things" and so on...
My opinion is that tarantulas are fascinating creatures, interesting to watch in both their natural and captive environments...but are they "intelligent"? I don't care, I like them how they are...


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## fscorpion (Jan 24, 2006)

stubby8th said:
			
		

> There arn't enough threads on this subject, right? Well, why not . . .
> 
> One who has kept, raised, observed, traded and collected tarantulas as I have done for many years gains a real sense for these animals. I have also had the oportunity to observe and interact with our native wild tarantulas, Aphonopema hentzi for a number seasons as well. Yes, one gains a knowlege of proper care of these animals, but also an ability to identify various moods and body language, as many will attest to. Now I am not pretending to bestow true problem solving intelligence here, but I am saying that those who claim to know for a fact that these animals are blind, dumb and instinctual automatans may not be giving enough credit.
> 
> ...


Yes, you are right, it is interesting to observe animals and with time people learn to read their body language. It's like listening to a language that you do not understand and after some time you start to getting the point and the person who was talking suddenly becomes more close and familiar to you. It happens with all the animals, they are all fascinating and interesing, they all have something to say and only shallow people will take their actions for granted and planned. You have to learn about everything before being able to come to a conclusion, something we humans don't like to do...:?


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## Ewok (Jan 24, 2006)

hmm I don't know about tarantulas being stupid, I saw one of my usambaras working on a geometry problem before

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Ewok (Jan 24, 2006)

I think a good way to put it is that tarntulas have "instinct smarts".


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## Thoth (Jan 24, 2006)

Sometimes, I think they are smarter than their owners, exploiting the owners stupidity.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## fscorpion (Jan 24, 2006)

Thoth said:
			
		

> Sometimes, I think they are smarter than their owners, exploiting the owners stupidity.


Do they have a choice?


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## JayMadison (Jul 29, 2011)

I'm new to the hobby, so I'm curious about the intelligence issue as well, I have noticed some learned behaviors, and certainly reactions to changes in the environment. As time goes on it will be intersting to see if the T's learn my routines or not.


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## jonnyquong (Jul 29, 2011)

I always get a laugh out of these type of questions. Intelligence... based on WHAT? Based on what WE consider intelligent?:wall: WE'RE INTELLIGENT?  LMAO


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## synyster (Jul 29, 2011)

JayMadison said:


> I'm new to the hobby, so I'm curious about the intelligence issue as well, I have noticed some learned behaviors, and certainly reactions to changes in the environment. As time goes on it will be intersting to see if the T's learn my routines or not.



No it will not learn the "routines". Reactions to changes are normal as it adapts itself. It relies on basic instincs to survive. A spider is not intelligent.

There is a thread that went on above your post about this or another that is still going on HERE


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## Querx (Jul 29, 2011)

It really depends on what your definition of intelligence is. I've seen behaviour in my Ts that I would consider quite intelligent for example: the use of moss for an entrance to a hide.

Also, the next time you feed your tarantula, notice how it usually lays down some web in the exact spot where the food was caught. I can only imagine that the tarantula has reasoned that since its prey came along in that spot, then there is a chance more prey may do the same. If they do lay web for this reason, then we know that the tarantula can make predictions about the future and act accordingly which, to me, seems rather intelligent.

It's just a theory at the end of the day and if anyone knows of a different reason why they lay web in the spot where prey was caught, please tell me because this behaviour has interested me since I started the hobby


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## ArkGullwing (Aug 6, 2011)

The debate rages on! :3 Here's a pretty cool video of one clever specimen in particular...

[video=youtube;QYwSt2uxmCs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYwSt2uxmCs&feature=related[/video]


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## AmbushArachnids (Aug 6, 2011)

When i think about spiders "intelligence" i think intelligent design. Thats very similar to what most call instinct. Just a different idea of how they came about.  They are built to survive in their natural habitat. Nothing more imo.


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## Jonathan Stewart (Aug 20, 2017)

I regard this as a learned behavior but adaptability and learned behaviors show a degree of intelligence this video may very well be fake but my Rose hair can tell when I'm about to interact vs just dropping a dubia in the cage and quite frankly after me handling her to frequently when I first got her she showed a change in temperament she now gets defensive while before she would curl her legs covering her face when one tactic didn't work she wrote that off and changed tactics no longer covers skips that and right into defensive mode definitely a learned behavior and that shows a degree of intelligence not much but it's something

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Lollipop 1


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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 20, 2017)

Jonathan Stewart said:


> I regard this as a learned behavior but adaptability and learned behaviors show a degree of intelligence this video may very well be fake but my Rose hair can tell when I'm about to interact vs just dropping a dubia in the cage and quite frankly after me handling her to frequently when I first got her she showed a change in temperament she now gets defensive while before she would curl her legs covering her face when one tactic didn't work she wrote that off and changed tactics no longer covers skips that and right into defensive mode definitely a learned behavior and that shows a degree of intelligence not much but it's something


You are Number One, my man 

I have nothing else truly helpful to add to your _compendium _but let me notice that, maybe with a comma, legibility would had better 

Needless to say, you earned a follower!

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## miss moxie (Aug 20, 2017)

Chris LXXIX said:


> You are Number One, my man
> 
> I have nothing else truly helpful to add to your _compendium _but let me notice that, maybe with a comma, legibility would had better
> 
> Needless to say, you earned a follower!


A couple commas and a few periods really. 

The writer in me cringed.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Jonathan Stewart (Aug 23, 2017)

I agree, I come from a generation that abandoned sentence structure as a means to text faster. It does leave room for confusion.


Chris LXXIX said:


> You are Number One, my man
> 
> I have nothing else truly helpful to add to your _compendium _but let me notice that, maybe with a comma, legibility would had better
> 
> Needless to say, you earned a follower!

Reactions: Like 1 | Sad 1


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## Realevil1 (Aug 23, 2017)

Wow. A thread from over 10 years ago that keeps getting bumped. haha.

imo I wouldn't call  "Intelligence" a trait that inverts possess. Rather behavior or learned behavior if anything.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Icculus (Aug 24, 2017)

Chris LXXIX said:


> You are Number One, my man
> 
> I have nothing else truly helpful to add to your _compendium _but let me notice that, maybe with a comma, legibility would had better
> 
> Needless to say, you earned a follower!


I'm able to play word of the day with two of my t's now and a third making great progress.

But I have wondered.  They all know their way around their enclosures.  If they just run on instinct how do they know where they are going?


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## Jonathan Stewart (Aug 24, 2017)

Icculus said:


> I'm able to play word of the day with two of my t's now and a third making great progress.
> 
> But I have wondered.  They all know their way around their enclosures.  If they just run on instinct how do they know where they are going?


That I'm not sure if they know I have a T about 2 inch leg span in a 10 gallon waiting to transfer into a much smaller enclosure she doesn't seem to care for the hide or water bowl n chills on a deserted end I'm gonna buy a splitter black it out and slap a obt on other side I think but she seems largely unaware that there is more in that tank to offer


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## Leila (Aug 24, 2017)

Jonathan Stewart said:


> That I'm not sure if they know I have a T about 2 inch leg span in a 10 gallon waiting to transfer into a much smaller enclosure she doesn't seem to care for the hide or water bowl n chills on a deserted end I'm gonna buy a splitter black it out and slap a obt on other side I think but she seems largely unaware that there is more in that tank to offer


Dude. Commas and periods are our friends...
(sorry, sorry..it has already been addressed.)


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## Jonathan Stewart (Aug 24, 2017)

Leila said:


> Dude. Commas and periods are our friends...
> (sorry, sorry..it has already been addressed.)


 vote it down and move on then... There are three your welcome


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## Leila (Aug 24, 2017)

Jonathan Stewart said:


> vote it down and move on then... There are three your welcome


'Vote it down'? Does that equate to giving you a negative rating?
I am definitely not going to give you a bad rating due to the fact that you composed a run-on sentence. 

I apologize. I was just teasing.  I really meant no harm.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Jonathan Stewart (Aug 24, 2017)

Leila said:


> 'Vote it down'? Does that equate to giving you a negative rating?
> I am definitely not going to do that because you composed a run-on sentence.
> My apologies as well long day at work. I could have easily shrugged it off with a chuckle.
> I apologize. I was just teasing.


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## Leila (Aug 24, 2017)

Wait one darn second. 
That quote you posted- some of those words are not mine. Lol. (You are sleepy indeed, friend.  As am I. Time for bed- at least for this gal.)

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Ungoliant (Aug 25, 2017)

Icculus said:


> I'm able to play word of the day with two of my t's now and a third making great progress.


My _Grammostola pulchra_ has figured out how to conceal the evidence of a crime (pooping in her water dish).












Grammostola pulchra Renovates Enclosure



__ Ungoliant
__ Aug 25, 2017
__ 1
__
brazilian black tarantula
bulldozer
female
grammostola
grammostola pulchra
juvenile
juvenile female
pulchra




						Bulldozer dragged her leaf "rug" into her water dish, dragged her rubber mat next to the dish...

Reactions: Funny 4


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## Ellenantula (Aug 25, 2017)

Ungoliant said:


> My _Grammostola pulchra_ has figured out how to conceal the evidence of a crime (pooping in her water dish).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Poop art -- Mixed media with water colours -- poop beige mixed with burnt umber substrate.  Excellent leaf placement.  A masterpiece - glad you preserved it in pixels for posterity.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2


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## Ungoliant (Aug 26, 2017)

Ellenantula said:


> Poop art -- Mixed media with water colours -- poop beige mixed with burnt umber substrate.  Excellent leaf placement.  A masterpiece - glad you preserved it in pixels for posterity.


But for traditional poop art, no one beats _Avicularia_.


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## Ellenantula (Aug 26, 2017)

Ungoliant said:


> But for traditional poop art, no one beats _Avicularia_.


Avics cheat -- they think they are projectile cannons.


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## Urban Country Spider (Aug 9, 2018)

This is my opinion my T. (B. Vagan) is smart granted it does not know me as it's care provider but it tries to escape from it enclosure (I had transfer it into a new one and it tried to escape every chance) it try to find all the possible escape routes and I stopped her from doing it for now.But I know shes planning her next moved and it surprised me that she is a climber but she is supposed to be a digger.


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