# =[ is my tarantula going to die? help...



## twentyeggs (Feb 8, 2012)

My T is not looking too good. about a week ago she was active happy and seemed to have everything a tarantula needs to be happy. but i looked at her today and she is all curled up and her abdomen is shriveled! I am really hoping she is getting ready to molt and not getting ready to die. her abdomen turned from a light pink to dark dark brown these last 2 weeks, which i was excited to see because those are sign of a T getting ready to molt. She stopped eating food about 2 months ago. She was a veracious eater.. i had just bought 25 crickets, and the bag accidentally lets 4 crickets out at the same time, i let curiosity take over and she ended up catching each one, one by one, and made a big cricket ball out of them.  i waited 3 days and offered her another cricket, she refused and since then hasn't touched food, which is uncharacteristic of her. even when she is full she still kills the food. so i was hoping this was another sign of molting and let it go. 

i did some fruitless searches and the word dehydration came up a few times, but she has a full water bowl, and 82% humidity. 

the very last thing i can add, is i noticed a grip of tiny clear mites in a corner. they looked like opportunistic mites and quickly checked my T, i saw about 5-6 mites hanging on the legs for a ride, so i did nothing about it as they pose no threat.. my searched said they are an inevitable part of owning a moist terrarium, still i am particular and am planning to to get some predator mites. i also took an old curling iron and stuck it in the substrate in the same corner as the mites and monitored it while i watched a movie. my T stayed in its home and the corner the mites were in dried up like a desert and i have not seen any more mites (although i know they are lurking somewhere....) in a nut shell i am pretty positive the mites have nothing to do with the strange behavior. 

to satisfy my curiosity, i took her bark half circle hide out of the cage, put some water in a cotten ball and placed it near her fangs to see if the dehydration thing was the cause, she stuck one fang it it very quickly and then walked on her knees (cause she can't extend her legs) away from the cotton ball toward the edge of the glass and i took the pictures.. 

is this a deal curl or a step in the molting process?!?!?

View attachment 99071
View attachment 99072


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## twentyeggs (Feb 8, 2012)

that little squiggly thing there is a cat fur... it got stuck to the condensation and i didn't notice it until i took the picture... just in case you are wondering...

and the area by her knees and back is darkening and the hair is gone! this means she is molting right?! i love my spider i don't want it to die!


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## LV-426 (Feb 8, 2012)

I dunno that T looks pretty rough, I hope it pulls through. Try to put it in an ICU and hope for the best


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## Chris_Skeleton (Feb 8, 2012)

What kind of T is it? How big is it? 

Does it have hooks under its first set of legs? And do the pedipalps look balled up like it's wearing boxing gloves?


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## goodoldneon (Feb 8, 2012)

Are you sure "she" is not a mature "he"?


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## twentyeggs (Feb 8, 2012)

yes, it is a she.. it is a Theraposa Stirmi (Burgundy Goliath) about 5" They are a little different when they are young. 

and no it doesn't really look like the tips are balled up. however they are still plump like they used to be while the rest of her body has shriveled a bit, ill get another picture. im really crossing my fingers this is molt behavior, because she was a very light color brown, and now the bends in her legs are almost black.


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## bobusboy (Feb 8, 2012)

You need to get that T in an ICU.

Get a jar / container, line it with paper towel, make the paper towel damp with water, set the T in it. Make sure there are air holes in the lid, put the container with the T in a dark warm place where it wont be disturbed. Leave it till tomorrow check it, see if there is any improvement.  If not leave it for another day, and remember  it's not dead till it smells dead.


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## InvertFix (Feb 8, 2012)

I hope your girl is alright. As others have said, place it in an ICU. At this point it looks like that's your best bet on salvation for your little darling.


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## twentyeggs (Feb 8, 2012)

bobusboy said:


> You need to get that T in an ICU.
> 
> Get a jar / container, line it with paper towel, make the paper towel damp with water, set the T in it. Make sure there are air holes in the lid, put the container with the T in a dark warm place where it wont be disturbed. Leave it till tomorrow check it, see if there is any improvement.  If not leave it for another day, and remember  it's not dead till it smells dead.


ok i put her in an ICU... 

so with all the responses so far, are we saying there is no chance this is just her molting and she is genuinely sick?  no one has said "no it not molting" yet...

also as i was holding her in the transfer to her ICU i took a very close look to see if there were any mites taking a ride, and there was nothing, she is completely clean..


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## InvertFix (Feb 8, 2012)

twentyeggs said:


> ok i put her in an ICU...
> 
> so with all the responses so far, are we saying there is no chance this is just her molting and she is genuinely sick?  no one has said "no it not molting" yet...


Given that you said she crawled on her knees, it is not part of a molting process. No T is going to crawl while it's molting. You're T is most likely dehydrated, at least that's what I gather from the photos. What kind of gauge are you using to monitor temp and humidity?


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## jayefbe (Feb 8, 2012)

That is NOT molting behavior. She looks really rough. Has her carapace and legs always had those hairless dark patches? She was probably recently wild-caught, but did she always look that bad? The abdomen looks shriveled, which is a sign of dehydration. It looks as though her humidity/water requirements may have been lacking. Did this happen overnight or has she been progressively looking worse over a few days? I agree with other posters, you should stick her in an ICU ASAP, no more cotton balls. That's not going to fix anything.

---------- Post added 02-08-2012 at 01:00 PM ----------




twentyeggs said:


> ok i put her in an ICU...
> 
> so with all the responses so far, are we saying there is no chance this is just her molting and she is genuinely sick?  no one has said "no it not molting" yet...
> 
> also as i was holding her in the transfer to her ICU i took a very close look to see if there were any mites taking a ride, and there was nothing, she is completely clean..


Definitely not molting. Not mites either.


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## twentyeggs (Feb 8, 2012)

well she only crawled when i poked her, unless i disturb her she doesn't move. 

i am using a coil gauge i got from the pet store. she also has an automatic humidifier which turns on with a schedule that keeps the cage at 80-85% 

how wet should the ICU be. i used a cherry cloth towel and wet it and squeezed it till the drops were not running.


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## toast4nat (Feb 8, 2012)

You can try holding her and using a syringe to drop water on her mouth parts, which pretty much forces them to drink. The shriveling of the abdomen is dehydration. If the humidity was at 85% and she had a full water dish, I don't understand how this could have happened, but it obviously has. Could be an internal parasite, could be a reaction to a chemical, it could be anything really. I hope she pulls through, but it doesn't look very good...


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## InvertFix (Feb 8, 2012)

twentyeggs said:


> well she only crawled when i poked her, unless i disturb her she doesn't move.
> 
> i am using a coil gauge i got from the pet store. she also has an automatic humidifier which turns on with a schedule that keeps the cage at 80-85%
> 
> how wet should the ICU be. i used a cherry cloth towel and wet it and squeezed it till the drops were not running.


That's good for an ICU. Just keep her warm and in a dark place.

As for your gauge I suggest getting a digital one. As Jayfbe said, it looks like the humidity was lacking. I'm not sure where the other thread is but it talked about the dangers of a humidifier. Not to say that's what is wrong, but it could be a contributing factor.


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## twentyeggs (Feb 8, 2012)

jayefbe said:


> That is NOT molting behavior. She looks really rough. Has her carapace and legs always had those hairless dark patches? She was probably recently wild-caught, but did she always look that bad? The abdomen looks shriveled, which is a sign of dehydration. It looks as though her humidity/water requirements may have been lacking. Did this happen overnight or has she been progressively looking worse over a few days? I agree with other posters, you should stick her in an ICU ASAP, no more cotton balls. That's not going to fix anything.
> 
> ---------- Post added 02-08-2012 at 01:00 PM ----------
> 
> ...


no the hairless dark patches on the legs is new, as well as her abdomen, i bought her from a pretty reputable breeder, captive breed. She never looked bad before this week. she was thriving and very active up until about a month ago. it was sudden, she stopped eating and stayed in her hide one day out of the blue. her abdomen shriveled with in the last 2 days.


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## jayefbe (Feb 8, 2012)

I would use paper towels, keep them wet but not dripping. Make a nest of moist paper towels in a suitably sized plastic storage container and add air holes. Leave her undisturbed and hopefully it will help revive her.

The coil humidity gauges are notoriously inaccurate. I also remember that people recommended against the humidifier when you began using it.


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## InvertFix (Feb 8, 2012)

-> Misting System

---------- Post added 02-08-2012 at 02:07 PM ----------

Found the thread and linked it there for you.


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## twentyeggs (Feb 8, 2012)

toast4nat said:


> You can try holding her and using a syringe to drop water on her mouth parts, which pretty much forces them to drink. The shriveling of the abdomen is dehydration. If the humidity was at 85% and she had a full water dish, I don't understand how this could have happened, but it obviously has. Could be an internal parasite, could be a reaction to a chemical, it could be anything really. I hope she pulls through, but it doesn't look very good...


ok ill do that, how many CC's should i try and drop on her mouth? she's very lethargic so holding her wont be an issue. this is the same spider that sped up my arm up my neck and threat posed directly over my face the last time i attempted to hold her.

---------- Post added 02-08-2012 at 04:13 PM ----------




jayefbe said:


> I would use paper towels, keep them wet but not dripping. Make a nest of moist paper towels in a suitably sized plastic storage container and add air holes. Leave her undisturbed and hopefully it will help revive her.
> 
> The coil humidity gauges are notoriously inaccurate. I also remember that people recommended against the humidifier when you began using it.


well interestingly enough, i stopped using the misting system about 3 weeks ago because i taped a plastic zip lock bag over my screen top and it locked in the humidity without the misting system. if i were to relate coincidences, she started getting sick about a week or two after i *stopped *using the mister.


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## jayefbe (Feb 8, 2012)

twentyeggs said:


> i am using a coil gauge i got from the pet store. she also has an automatic humidifier which turns on with a schedule that keeps the cage at 80-85%





twentyeggs said:


> well interestingly enough, i stopped using the misting system about 3 weeks ago because i taped a plastic zip lock bag over my screen top and it locked in the humidity without the misting system. if i were to relate coincidences, she started getting sick about a week or two after i *stopped *using the mister.


http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/sho...ry-Theraposa&p=1966819&viewfull=1#post1966819

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/sho...ry-Theraposa&p=1968221&viewfull=1#post1968221

So, you're using a humidifier, and you're not using a humidifier. You have a digital hygrometer, and you don't have one. While it's possible that it's a parasite or some other factor that we can't determine, it's also possible that the conditions she was being kept in were not correct (and has been brought up before). Sometimes pride should take a back seat to your tarantula's health. 

I truly do hope that your tarantula pulls through, best of luck with her.


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## tarantulasweb (Feb 8, 2012)

my thoughts after reading all the posts are please pull through i hope your T pulls through best of luck


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## twentyeggs (Feb 8, 2012)

jayefbe said:


> http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/sho...ry-Theraposa&p=1966819&viewfull=1#post1966819
> 
> http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/sho...ry-Theraposa&p=1968221&viewfull=1#post1968221
> 
> ...


since your so interested in my affairs and need for me to explain myself, i will....  i used the humidifier up until about 3-4 weeks ago because i decided to tape a clear plastic freezer size zip lock back to the inside of my screen seeing that my T was showing signs of premolt. i knew screen tops are more fickle in keeping conditions steady and i wanted to give her the best conditions for her molt. with my mister the humidity varies from 75-85 percent. it stays at 80-85% the majority of the time and only enters the 75-80% range for 10-15 min before the mister kicks back on. i wanted the conditions to be a constant 80-85% so i switched to the bag and ditched the mister temporarily, until she was done molting. so YES i still have my mister but i am NOT currently using it. and YES I have a digital hygrometer but i am NOT currently using it. it is being used for another pet and didn't feel the need to put it back being that the coil meter (i originally glued to the inside of my tank) and the digital meter are always spot on and in sync with each other. but this didn't even come up nor is it even relevant unless my coil meter is broken and i can't distinguish the difference between what my tank looks like at 85% and <75% by eye. WHICH ISN'T THE CASE. 

you are trying to gracefully say i killed my tarantula because i have a mister. when she was doing just fine with the mister and only took a turn for the worst when i took everyone elses advise by ditching the screen top and mister for a temporary change. i am not saying that is what did her in... something else other than her environmental conditions is killing my spider. i do not appreciate the finger pointing.


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## Dr Acula (Feb 8, 2012)

Like others have said, ICU is best.  And the water drop with syringe idea is also a good one.  She is definitely dehydrated.  Her abdomen should NEVER look in the slightest bit shriveled and hers is definitely pretty wrinkly.  What do you use as a water source?


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## toast4nat (Feb 9, 2012)

Sadly I cannot give you an accurate CC amount because I've never had to actually do this with a spider, and I've never had a spider that size! Hopefully someone with more experience can tell you the right amount, but if not I would just do a full syringe, or until it seems the spider is unable to take in anymore water (please correct me if I'm wrong on this, I am completely guessing). 

We'd love updates on her condition.


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## tarantulagirl10 (Feb 9, 2012)

I would put a drop at a time onto her mouth parts. When one drop disappears, put another drop. Good luck, I hope she pulls through for you. I was once told that you can use unflavored Pedialyte. I cannot say with certainty that that is or is not safe. I have tried it as a last ditch effort and it seemed to help but in the end I ended up losing the t anyway.


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## twentyeggs (Feb 9, 2012)

toast4nat said:


> Sadly I cannot give you an accurate CC amount because I've never had to actually do this with a spider, and I've never had a spider that size! Hopefully someone with more experience can tell you the right amount, but if not I would just do a full syringe, or until it seems the spider is unable to take in anymore water (please correct me if I'm wrong on this, I am completely guessing).
> 
> We'd love updates on her condition.


well i swiped an insulin syringe from work filled it up with bottled water, ran it under some hot water till the temp was about 80, laid my spider upside down on my hand and dropped about 4 cc which made a nice size ball of water over her fangs. about the same size as the balls of water she makes on her own and carries around. unfortunately she didn't move her mouth parts around and just let the ball of water sit there. she is still very reactive to pressure like if you puff some air at her. but she refuses to drink. i don't know if they need to drink the water through their fangs, or if the water just needs to be there around the fangs. i resisted the urge to check on her this morning being that she has only been in her icu for about 12 hours and did not want to disturb her. i am very eager to check when i get home in a few hours.


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## tarantulagirl10 (Feb 9, 2012)

5 cc is one teaspoon. That would be a lot. I don't think that insuline syringes are in cc, most are in units which are different; maybe there are some in ccs though that I just don't know about. Anyway...sometimes you have to hold the t for a while until the water just kind of gets pulled by gravity...one drop at a time. When doing this with a spider I have had to sit for 20 minutes or more each time to get enough to amount to anything into the t.


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## twentyeggs (Feb 9, 2012)

im sorry, i meant .4 cc, a full syringe is 1 cc. it has units and cc's on either size so it can double as an insulin syringe and for SubQ injections. 0.4 cc was like 3 drops

and ok that is helpful!! ill repeat and sit much longer with her.. if she is still alive... =[


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## jbm150 (Feb 9, 2012)

They don't drink through their fangs, like straws.  Their fangs are simply venom delivery devices.  Their mouth is at the base of their chelicerae, that's where they'll suck the water from.  Try to keep the stress down though and best of luck, looks like it's gonna be an uphill battle


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## Bjamin (Feb 9, 2012)

They don't drink through their fangs but with their mouth parts that will be underneith the fangs. The pics didn't look good she looked very dehydrated I hope she pulls through for you and you can figure out what she needs to stay healthy


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## ElfDa (Feb 9, 2012)

aw, peep! I'll keep my fingers crossed for you and your T. 
Good luck!


---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=47.660262,-122.091252


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## advan (Feb 9, 2012)

twentyeggs said:


> since your so interested in my affairs and need for me to explain myself, i will....  i used the humidifier up until about 3-4 weeks ago because i decided to tape a clear plastic freezer size zip lock back to the inside of my screen seeing that my T was showing signs of premolt. i knew screen tops are more fickle in keeping conditions steady and i wanted to give her the best conditions for her molt. with my mister the humidity varies from 75-85 percent. it stays at 80-85% the majority of the time and only enters the 75-80% range for 10-15 min before the mister kicks back on. i wanted the conditions to be a constant 80-85% so i switched to the bag and ditched the mister temporarily, until she was done molting. so YES i still have my mister but i am NOT currently using it. and YES I have a digital hygrometer but i am NOT currently using it. it is being used for another pet and didn't feel the need to put it back being that the coil meter (i originally glued to the inside of my tank) and the digital meter are always spot on and in sync with each other. but this didn't even come up nor is it even relevant unless my coil meter is broken and i can't distinguish the difference between what my tank looks like at 85% and <75% by eye. WHICH ISN'T THE CASE.
> 
> you are trying to gracefully say i killed my tarantula because i have a mister. when she was doing just fine with the mister and only took a turn for the worst when i took everyone elses advise by ditching the screen top and mister for a temporary change. i am not saying that is what did her in... something else other than her environmental conditions is killing my spider. i do not appreciate the finger pointing.


Jay didn't say that you killed your T. He just pointed out the fact that your posts are very inconsistent and contradict themselves. May I ask what your other pet is that has higher humidity needs than _Theraphosa_?

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## twentyeggs (Feb 9, 2012)

advan said:


> Jay didn't say that you killed your T. He just pointed out the fact that your posts are very inconsistent and contradict themselves. May I ask what your other pet is that has higher humidity needs than _Theraphosa_?


well the cage im using the digital gauge in does not need higher humidity but it does need to be monitored if i want the breeding to be as high as possible. They are dubia roaches. I sell them. that is a 55 gal terrarium where i put the babies to grow, the blue container below has 350 females and 100 males and that also has a digital gauge. the buckets are there to sift the babies from the adults every month. the cage below with the green top are cleaner bugs that eat exoskeletons and droppings from the roaches, and the cage on top with the blue lid are hissing cockroaches, i am breeding those too.  

i am using the digital ones for the roaches because my Theraposa's coil gauge was already permanently glued in and is working just fine. why fix or upgrade something that isn't broke?

you can see the digital gauge in the top left hand corner of my 55 gal. and my mister set up behind the cage. i have no reason to lie about anything and i wonder why i am being second guessed. im not claiming to own a bugatti veyron


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## twentyeggs (Feb 9, 2012)

well i have bad news.. my T is now unresponsive and in a death curl... i think she is dead... now what... 

how long do i wait till i am sure?


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## Shell (Feb 9, 2012)

twentyeggs said:


> well i have bad news.. my T is now unresponsive and in a death curl... i think she is dead... now what...
> 
> how long do i wait till i am sure?


Wait until she smells. Sorry for your loss.


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## InvertFix (Feb 9, 2012)

I am so sorry for your loss. What a shame. 

Also next time you get a terrestrial T, make sure that the substrate is up high enough to where your T can touch the substrate with it's back legs and at the same time touch the top of the terrarium with it's front legs. Just giving you a tip. 

If you do lose your T I'm very sorry, if you end up wanting another one let me know and I could probably send out a baby to you. That's not to say it will be the same type, but I could certaintly figure something out.

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## advan (Feb 9, 2012)

twentyeggs said:


> i wonder why i am being second guessed.


This is why.



twentyeggs said:


> please don't mind the humidity gauge. I know it says 40 so you will have to take my word that its broken and stuck on 40. Both the humidity and temperature gauge are broke and I should be receiving a digital thermometer+humidity reader shortly in the mail. I never trusted those stupid coil based meters in the first place.





twentyeggs said:


> i am using the digital ones for the roaches because my Theraposa's coil gauge was already permanently glued in and is working just fine. why fix or upgrade something that isn't broke?


I am very sorry for your loss. Our goal here is to help people but it is very hard when the ones you are trying to help argue about the recommendations/changes that are given to them and then come back later with a sick/dead spider. I see plenty of issues with your set-up, if you actually want to try _Theraposa_ again I suggest you suck in your pride and take advice. A spiders health is much more important than breeding feeders IMO.

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## Dr Acula (Feb 9, 2012)

I'm curious to ask, where's the water dish?


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## toast4nat (Feb 9, 2012)

I believe the water dish is at the base of the large rock formation thing.

I'm so sorry for your loss, it's always sad when such a beautiful spider passes...


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## twentyeggs (Feb 9, 2012)

omg... u gotta be kidding... if you can't see for youself, the guage in the picture i took just hours ago... does NOT say 40 now does it. which could mean one thing... I REPLACED IT WITH ONE THAT WORKS SOME TIME AFTER I POSTED THAT POST YOU QUOTED. AND THEN MADE A DECISION THERE AFTER TO USE MY DIGITAL ONE WITH ANOTHER CAGE!

i am very surprised the concept of abstract thought doesn't occur here. you are almost expecting me to give you my life story and detailed account of every single one of my remedial actions in my life every time i post! just take my f'n word for it!! when i post im basically give you snap shots of my intentions and progress, NOT a set in stone rule book that I myself have to follow, is it not ok for me to change my mind about things i plan to do? 

why the hell would i lie about ANY of this stuff? what is the reason?! what possible motive would a person have to lie about owning a mister system, digital gauge, or how you keep a cage? if i wanted to shell out 120 bucks for a tarantula why the hell would i kill it by keeping its conditions uninhabitable? how is it even possible for a cage set up with an AUTOMATIC mister system, to end up at a low humidity? its pours out PURE HUMIDITY on a mechanical schedule! are you going to accuse me of never even owning a T now? that my dying T is a made up story? jesus! 

don't you have something better to do?

im starting to feel like your trolling my post. You act like its such a feat to keep a cage right, like its rocket science and not everyone can do it.


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## advan (Feb 9, 2012)

twentyeggs said:


> don't you have something better to do?


Actually I do. Good luck with your roaches.


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## twentyeggs (Feb 9, 2012)

advan said:


> Actually I do. Good luck with your roaches.


....thank you

---------- Post added 02-09-2012 at 06:59 PM ----------

im sorry if i seem a bit defensive and snappy but my T just died, im upset about it, and i feel like you are trying to say i deserve it because i could have prevented it by taking your advice against the mister or that im hiding something because i am not posting detailed accounts of all my decisions.


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## Formerphobe (Feb 9, 2012)

I'm sorry about your tarantula.  It is tough to lose one.  

When you voluntarily post a request for suggestions/recommendations/information on a public forum, then give seemingly conflicting information, it makes it difficult for readers/responders to accurately judge the situation.  No one reading here is a mind reader to be able to know when and what you changed as far as your gauges, etc.  While there are multiple means toward the same ends, tarantula keeping is not based in abstract.

I second the recommendation to use far more substrate if you get another Theraphosa or any terrestrial species.

Whenever I have lost a tarantula (or any animal for that matter), my husbandry, especially any recent changes, is one of the first things I call into question.  

In trying to 'guesstimate' the cause of her apparent dehydration and ultimate demise:
How long have you had her?
WC or CB?  If WC, how long in captivity?
Her last meal was crickets - source? Did your other tarantulas eat crickets from that same batch without issue?  
(Out of curiosity, why buy crickets if you have a steady supply of roaches?)
What kind of stone is that in her tank?  Source?
Was there anything new added to her tank in the past few weeks - substrate, decorations, etc?
Did you notice mites in the tank or on her prior to her appearing debilitated?
Any change in water source?
Any insecticides in use around the house, or on any mammals living in the house?

Some species and individuals are so sensitive to the slightest change(s) in their environment.  Again, I'm sorry for your loss and hope you are able to figure out the cause.

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## twentyeggs (Feb 10, 2012)

Formerphobe said:


> I'm sorry about your tarantula.  It is tough to lose one.
> 
> When you voluntarily post a request for suggestions/recommendations/information on a public forum, then give seemingly conflicting information, it makes it difficult for readers/responders to accurately judge the situation.  No one reading here is a mind reader to be able to know when and what you changed as far as your gauges, etc.  While there are multiple means toward the same ends, tarantula keeping is not based in abstract.
> 
> ...


i've had her for about 6 months... i think
she is captive breed
her last meal was crickets, i get them from petco, i don't feed her roaches because she does not like them. i gave a hisser once and she couldn't pierce its shell, and since then she refused to bite a roach. 
it is a petco stone water dish that i used for my leopard gecko prior. 
nothing new was added
the mites appeared about 2-3 weeks ago but she had already stopped eating food long before they arrived
no change in water source. 
the only other mammals i have are two cats. i have one that likes to sit on the cage next to the heat lamp. 

the only thing i changed recently was how i controled my humidity. I had a screen top with a mister system. but i recently sealed it closed with a plastic zip lock bag some time last week. i turned my mister off and used the bag to keep in the humidity. 1.5-2 weeks later is today. she is now dead.


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## Formerphobe (Feb 10, 2012)

If they were 'clean up' mites, which happen, they shouldn't bother a healthy T.  If they were on the tarantula, then they, unfortunately, were doing their job - cleaning up dead/dying things.
How 'sealed' was the tank with plastic?  Tarantulas don't need a lot of air, but even swamp dwellers need some amount of ventilation.  This wouldn't explain the dehydration, though.
What kind of flea/tick control is used on the cats?  When was it last applied?


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## Phlerr (Feb 11, 2012)

I'd def get that cotton ball away from her.......that's just asking for more trouble


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## Stan Schultz (Feb 11, 2012)

bobusboy said:


> You need to get that T in an ICU.
> 
> Get a jar / container, line it with paper towel, make the paper towel damp with water, set the T in it. Make sure there are air holes in the lid, put the container with the T in a dark warm place where it wont be disturbed. Leave it till tomorrow check it, see if there is any improvement.  If not leave it for another day, and remember  it's not dead till it smells dead.


More complete instructions by the people who invented the ICU at *THE INTENSIVE CARE UNIT (ICU)*.


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## Anonymity82 (Feb 11, 2012)

twentyeggs said:


> View attachment 99138
> View attachment 99139
> 
> 
> ...


This may have been addressed, but maybe your T had an injury due to a fall. Did you check the abdomen for any openings?


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## Phlerr (Feb 11, 2012)

Sorry I posted that after I read that she had went into a death curl.......I'm very sorry about your t


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## jim777 (Feb 11, 2012)

Sorry for your loss.


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## Stan Schultz (Feb 11, 2012)

twentyeggs said:


> ... You act like its such a feat to keep a cage right, like its rocket science and not everyone can do it.


With keeping any of the _Theraphosa_ species, it just about *IS* rocket science. I've conveniently skipped a lot of the previous postings so I don't really know what's going on here, but I'd like to stick to the issue at hand and avoid a flame war.

The _Theraphosa_ are lumped into a group that enthusiasts call "swamp dwellers." These are tarantula species that for one reason or another have failed to develop the protective layer of a waxy substance on their exoskeletons robust enough to prevent them from drying out and mummifying in normal room air. There are several other genera of tarantulas that fall into this care regimen, e.g., genus _Hysterocrates_, genus _Ephebopus_, and to some extent genus _Megaphobema_.

So, when they first come in from the jungle, they cannot tolerate a dry atmosphere, and to keep them alive we have to put them in cages with virtually 100% humidity. The commonest way to achieve that is to moisten the substrate enough that it's almost saturated, and cover the cage some way (plastic food wrap is often useful) to prevent any ventilation from reducing the humidity. These tarantulas got the nickname "swamp dwellers" from the damp cages they require. 

The problem is that dampness breeds all sorts of other vermin, varmints, pests, and diseases too. And, that raises the mortality rate dramatically. As a guess, I would estimate that 90% of all _Theraphosa_ that are imported from the wild die within the first two years. And, yours is most definitely an imported one. I can tell because the bare areas on its legs and carapace are a dead giveaway for being wear and tear due to the way that they must be shipped. It's a huge red light blinking in the storm!

Now, most of these swamp dwellers will gradually acclimatize to a drier cage if the enthusiast has enough experience to recognize the problem and deal with it accordingly. But, that's only half the problem. The owner of a newly imported _Theraphosa_ must also be able to recognize and know how to deal with an almost unbelievable menu of infestations and infections that are going to arise during that acclimatization process because it takes at least two molts to complete. For adult _Theraphosa_ that means nurse-maiding this animal for two to four years. This is well beyond the abilities of the novice, and often even experienced enthusiasts.

Trying to keep any of the wild caught _Theraphosa_ species is viewed by many of us as being a very bad idea for just about everybody. Keeping cage bred individuals, however, is a little easier, but still not recommended for the novice.

Your tarantula is on the verge of death if it hasn't already died. Your only defense now is to get it into a *really wet ICU* and hope for the best.

The tone of your original postings would suggest extremely strongly that you are a relative novice at keeping tarantulas. As such, I would strongly urge you to read *Stan's Rant*. Especially, you need to read the books listed there.

After this little crisis passes I would urge you to get any of the following species as a pet.

_Grammostola rosea_ (Chilean rose tarantula. But read *Care and Husbandry of the Chilean Rose Tarantula* first!)

_Grammostola pulchra_ (Brazilian black tarantula)

_Brachypelma smithi_ (Mexican redknee)

_Brachypelma emilia_ (Mexican redleg)

_Brachypelma albopilosum_ (Curlyhair)

_Aphonopelma hentzi_ (Texas or Oklahoma brown tarantula)

_Aphonopelma chalcodes_ (Tuscon, Arizona, or desert blind tarantula)

There are a lot of other tarantulas that make good species for the beginner, but these are almost guaranteed winners.

If it's a really huge tarantula that you're looking for, instead of one of the _Theraphosa_, get yourself several baby _Lasiodora parahybana_ (Brazilian salmon tarantula). Buying three babies will cost you less than $100, and you'll have seven chances out of eight of getting at least one female (desired over males for pets). They reach the same size as the _Theraphosa_, but are a lot easier to care for, and have much higher survival rates. Also, a lot of us think they look a lot prettier too. Getting such a huge tarantula poses a lot of problems for novices, but at least a _parahybana_ isn't almost guaranteed to die!

Follow the instructions in the books mentioned in *Stan's Rant* for setting up their cages and supplying them their care. However, as initial care:

If they are babies with diagonal leg spans (DLS) less than about 1.5" (3.5 - 4 cm), care for them as babies. See the books for detailed instructions.

If they have DLS of 2" (5 cm) or greater, care for them as adult arid species. (My list above was heavily biased towards the arid species because they tend to be much hardier than any others.)

If they fall in between these two sizes merely gradually allow their containers to dry out slowly over about two molts so they can adjust to living in an arid cage. Note: _From the time that you start this acclimatization and for the remainder of their lives they will require a water dish with clean water at all times._

Virtually everything you need to know about tarantula care is held within the pages of those books until you become experienced and sophisticated enough that you want to try breeding tarantulas.

Best of luck. Hope this helps.


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## twentyeggs (Feb 11, 2012)

Formerphobe said:


> If they were 'clean up' mites, which happen, they shouldn't bother a healthy T.  If they were on the tarantula, then they, unfortunately, were doing their job - cleaning up dead/dying things.
> How 'sealed' was the tank with plastic?  Tarantulas don't need a lot of air, but even swamp dwellers need some amount of ventilation.  This wouldn't explain the dehydration, though.
> What kind of flea/tick control is used on the cats?  When was it last applied?


i did an advantage flea control a month ago because my cats whet home with me over break and got them. do you think it could have killed my T if one of the cats hairs with the insecticide fell through the screen?!!?! i didn't think about that!! =[

there was a cat hair stuck to the inside of the enclosure in my first picture... what if that was enough to kill my T??


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## Anonymity82 (Feb 11, 2012)

twentyeggs said:


> i did an advantage flea control a month ago because my cats whet home with me over break and got them. do you think it could have killed my T if one of the cats hairs with the insecticide fell through the screen?!!?! i didn't think about that!! =[
> 
> there was a cat hair stuck to the inside of the enclosure in my first picture... what if that was enough to kill my T??


It could also have something to do with the large amount of distance from "ceiling" to floor. Plus, the large water dish in there doesn't look safe. Have you ever seen your T climbing the decorations or walls? I'm just thinking that the deflated abdomen could be from a fall. If the T fell, it could have slowly leaked  blood. And, in a damp enclosure, the blood may have not been as noticeable. Sorry for your loss. I would take Pikaia's advice and maybe get an LP or something else that doesn't need the swamp dweller's requirements.


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## twentyeggs (Feb 11, 2012)

Well i found a Theraposa Blondi vender on Craigslist and he lives real close to me and said he'll swing by to take a look at my T. i guess he has been breeding all kinds of tarantulas mainly Goliaths for 12 years. my T does not smell yet, and i got a .0001% chance its still alive in there although i've already accepted that its dead. hopefully a trained eye can tell me what happened.


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## Anonymity82 (Feb 11, 2012)

twentyeggs said:


> Well i found a Theraposa Blondi vender on Craigslist and he lives real close to me and said he'll swing by to take a look at my T. i guess he has been breeding all kinds of tarantulas mainly Goliaths for 12 years. my T does not smell yet, and i got a .0001% chance its still alive in there although i've already accepted that its dead. hopefully a trained eye can tell me what happened.


Oh that's great! Fill us in!


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## twentyeggs (Feb 11, 2012)

njnolan1 said:


> It could also have something to do with the large amount of distance from "ceiling" to floor. Plus, the large water dish in there doesn't look safe. Have you ever seen your T climbing the decorations or walls? I'm just thinking that the deflated abdomen could be from a fall. If the T fell, it could have slowly leaked  blood. And, in a damp enclosure, the blood may have not been as noticeable. Sorry for your loss. I would take Pikaia's advice and maybe get an LP or something else that doesn't need the swamp dweller's requirements.


sadly yes, she loved to climb... and loved to hang out on that rock structure so much i couldn't take it away. she would climb up and down and around it for hours a day and use it to get on the ceiling. but now i regret it... seeing that it is very very likely she fell and caused a rupture. which would explain the shriveled abdomen?


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## Anonymity82 (Feb 11, 2012)

twentyeggs said:


> sadly yes, she loved to climb... and loved to hang out on that rock structure so much i couldn't take it away. she would climb up and down and around it for hours a day and use it to get on the ceiling. but now i regret it... seeing that it is very very likely she fell and caused a rupture. which would explain the shriveled abdomen?


That's just a guess and I honestly don't have a lot of experience with T's. I just have spent A LOT of time reading about them. I have a few of my own, but not a T. blondi. I would have your experienced keeper check the abdomen for any possible ruptures. As Pikaia said, they can be extremely hard to care for (that's not saying that there aren't keepers who have found it easy). So, it could be a number of things. I am just throwing out a possibility. It does sound more possible after what you said. I know they are terrestrial and the guidelines for terrestrial T's are normally as follows: The T should be able to both touch the "ceiling" and the the substrate (front leg touches top, opposite back leg touches substrate) in case of a fall. The larger the T, the higher the risk of injury from a fall.


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## Shrike (Feb 11, 2012)

twentyeggs said:


> sadly yes, she loved to climb... and loved to hang out on that rock structure so much i couldn't take it away. she would climb up and down and around it for hours a day and use it to get on the ceiling.


This doesn't sound like normal behavior to me.  In my opinion, this is usually indicative of conditions the tarantula is not comfortable in.  At the very least, I would include more substrate in your next enclosure to ensure that the tarantula won't have far to fall.

I hope your T pulls through.


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## Vespula (Feb 11, 2012)

I'm so very sorry for your loss.  It hurts to lose a tarantula.


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## LV-426 (Feb 11, 2012)

twentyeggs said:


> no the hairless dark patches on the legs is new, as well as her abdomen, i bought her from a pretty reputable breeder, captive breed. She never looked bad before this week. she was thriving and very active up until about a month ago. it was sudden, she stopped eating and stayed in her hide one day out of the blue. her abdomen shriveled with in the last 2 days.


Looking at the pic of your stirmi and how rough the apperence is, I find it hard to believe it was captive breed. If you look at my avatar its an E murinus I had that was WC and I guess due to importation got all roughened up. My two stirmi I have are also WC but never looked like that (they were about 5in when I got them), I have had them about a year and they still don't look as bad as yours did. I'm mot tying o put you down just making an observation.


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## twentyeggs (Feb 11, 2012)

LV-426 said:


> Looking at the pic of your stirmi and how rough the apperence is, I find it hard to believe it was captive breed. If you look at my avatar its an E murinus I had that was WC and I guess due to importation got all roughened up. My two stirmi I have are also WC but never looked like that (they were about 5in when I got them), I have had them about a year and they still don't look as bad as yours did. I'm mot tying o put you down just making an observation.


i know but she didn't always look like that. she only started to show those bald patches on her legs like 2 weeks ago.. here ill show you pic from when i first got her in the mail. and i've only tried touching her ONCE.


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## LV-426 (Feb 11, 2012)

Wow it detiriorated fast


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## twentyeggs (Feb 11, 2012)

the web site i got her from is very reputable, and they do not sell WC tarantulas...

---------- Post added 02-11-2012 at 04:38 PM ----------

she look like those pictures up until about last month. she then started to worsen to how she looks now, whatever happened was an acute thing, very sudden. She looked and acted very healthy from day one until about a month ago.

I am planning to get a Theraposa Blondi from this guy, and he came over to check out my stirmi. Im in the middle of typing up everything that happened its alot and Im pretty sure we know why she died now... I got a TON of good tips from him and i am much more knowledgeable, i made a pretty bad mistake because of my inexperience that i think killed her, i will share when im done typing my post.

---------- Post added 02-11-2012 at 04:59 PM ----------

Ok I have A LOT to write… here it goes. Well rocky, the T breeder is a very experience guy, he used to own a pet store before the economy went bad and has been breeding tarantulas for over 12 years. He came by and I showed him my T. he started handling it like it was a piece of fragile tissue paper, and looked at it with a little pocket magnifying glass. He said yep, shes dead. And then started to move the legs and stuff in a not so fragile way. I then showed him my enclosure and he said, that rock dish was a death trap, but it is not what killed my T. he said she was definitely dehydrated and is likely why she died. He did take a long time looking at the spider to rule out if she fell and hurt herself and couldn’t move to get water. I told him about the cat fur and he said no, that a pesticide on a single strand of fur wouldn’t be enough to kill her, and that the wet environment would have degraded the pesticide very quickly. He said his best guess is that it was not a fall, it was not the tank conditions, and not the flea treatment, but that she died in premolt. I told him about how she stopped eating 2 months ago. He said its normal for a T to fast before a molt but that they are generally pretty good about molting shortly thereafter, if undisturbed. Which leads me to his diagnosis… and to reveal my inexperience.. My Ts abdomen turned from a light pink to dark dark brown, lost all the hair on her abdomen and tops of her legs, and built her first blockade of substrate and web to block up her entrance. I didn’t know what she was doing and a few days afterwards I was in there messing with the configuration of her cage and ruined the blockade. I figured she would just build another one… but she never did. He guesses that I interrupted her molting rituals and while she was “sulking” and stressed out she grew weak, so when she tried to molt and couldn’t she lost the ability to move and hydrate herself. Which lead to her death or dehydration. He says when his T’s are showing molting rituals he stays away from them because molting is when any of his Ts die, and he noticed an increase in deaths when he is in there maintaining his breeding setup while they are trying to molt. He says unless there is a critical problem leave the T and his cage alone until you see that exoskeleton and your T outside of it… so there you go… he stayed a bit longer to give me a bunch more pointers and also addressed my mister setup. Also about the mites, he found one and checked it out under his mag, and said they are opportunistic mites and feed on anything left by the spider, and that they very commonly hitch a ride on the tarantula. Why search for food when you can take a ride right to the source. He said parasitic mites like to hang around the eyes, joints, and mouthparts of tarantulas. If you see a few mites just hanging around on the legs or a T its most likely not hurting anything. He said I could get some isopods to compete with the mites and kill them off because they kill mite eggs. He said if they ever get out of control take the T out of its cage for a week or two in a temporary cage, and use a heat lamp to dry the crap out of the cage. If it is a severe infestation to change the substrate and use boiling water to clean decorations and the cage itself. Never soap. 
Ok to share what he had to say about my mister set up!!!  
He said I need to ditch the heat lamp and get a heating pad. He said the screen tops will work but it’s difficult and needs a lot of monitoring. And daily cups of warm water to re-soak the substrate in addition to the mister. He said I should keep the zip lock bag that I sealed the screen with on but to cut a 1” strip all the way down so that I can use my mister set up in this way. (this is how he has his high humidity requirement animals) He uses the exact same mister as I do but not in the way I do. He said the way I am using my mister changes the humidity in the air but not in the environment as a whole. That while it is satisfactory (as long as the spiders exoskeleton is getting the moisture it needs) it’s best to have the humidity from the environment and not directly from an external source. Also just humidifying the air allows for there to be a peak and trough in its conditions when he says is up for debate being that in the real world temperature and humidity rise and fall throughout the day, but he feels isn’t necessary for captive breeds. 

So, he said go to petco/petsmart and buy one of those aquarium bottom filter grates for fish. Use the hole that is there for the filter hose and feed the mister hose into it. The grate only needs to be a quarter to a half the size of the floor and not to get one that covers the entire floor like you would in a fish tank. (I didn’t ask why) Then cover the grate with your substrate and do everything as normal. He said with this setup you can turn the mister really really low and set it to run for 10-15 min once every other day. The humidity is pumped into the grate and disperses in the substrate which in turn keeps the humidity at a modifiable level in the environment as a whole and not just in the air of the enclosure. Also since the mister uses room air to pump the moisture, with that 1” strip  open on the top it allows air to be recycled and not become stagnant which could introduce other problems. He says he has had his setup made like this for 6 years and it has cut his maintenance time in half. The reservoir that comes with the mister system set up like this lasts about 2 months. He said if I do this, the enclosure is idiot proof and will maintain a tarantula like a Theraposa with little maintenance. 

so to recap, my T's death is a result of my messing with her enclosure while she was trying to set up her cage to molt. apparently T's can "sulk" or stay in one spot for a very long time and refuse food and water, If they do this for too long they can become weak and if they try and molt in this condition its likely they will not get very far. Also throwing in crickets while a tarantula sulks can extend this behavior and exacerbate any problems. This is what i think happened here... I told him that most of the replies from this forum site claimed it was dehydration because i failed to keep the tank at the right conditions and he disagrees. He said a Tarantula my size can survive in 65-75% humidity for many years as long as there is a full water dish, even though it is contraindicated. He said my tank as it is was not the cause of her death although i could improve it, as well as getting rid of the rock dish which is hazardous in cause of a fall.

Reactions: Like 1


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## jbm150 (Feb 11, 2012)

^some good stuff there.  The combination height/rock structure is a deathtrap; though it is probably not the cause of this Ts death, at least you know that for the future.  Deep, moist substrate is key on many levels.  With the deep sub, your T will excavate a burrow which will contain humid air.  Even if the top is a screen with no plastic, at least it's burrow will hold moisture (as long as the sub stays moist) and give it a place to retreat to should surface conditions become dessicate.  You may never see your T but at least it's comfortable down there.  For this case, it's a shame but live and learn.  You'll be a better keeper because of it.  Accept the loss and other's tips with humility and future Ts in your care will thrive


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## twentyeggs (Feb 11, 2012)

jbm150 said:


> ^some good stuff there.  The combination height/rock structure is a deathtrap; though it is probably not the cause of this Ts death, at least you know that for the future.  Deep, moist substrate is key on many levels.  With the deep sub, your T will excavate a burrow which will contain humid air.  Even if the top is a screen with no plastic, at least it's burrow will hold moisture (as long as the sub stays moist) and give it a place to retreat to should surface conditions become dessicate.  You may never see your T but at least it's comfortable down there.  For this case, it's a shame but live and learn.  You'll be a better keeper because of it.  Accept the loss and other's tips with humility and future Ts in your care will thrive


yup, live and learn... im gunna make my enclosure a Theraposa paradise for my next one. too bad about my rock water dish it looks good in the cage, but its not safe.


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## Formerphobe (Feb 11, 2012)

Wow, you got a lot of great info!  (I'm saving the humidification info in case I ever decide to get a Theraphosa.)  Sorry your girl is dead, but you have some great applications to use for your next one.



> I told him about the cat fur and he said no, that a pesticide on a single strand of fur wouldn’t be enough to kill her, and that the wet environment would have degraded the pesticide very quickly.


I would still keep the cats away from the cage.  I have my daughters (who never go near my tarantulas) apply Advantage to my dogs, and the dogs never go near my T room.


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## Anonymity82 (Feb 11, 2012)

Thanks for sharing! This info will help others too! So many people struggle to keep there T. Blondis alive. Now you know what to do! Personally it sounds like too much work for me, but I have a lazy disposition . Good luck with your new T and show us some pics when you have the new T and set up!


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