# Scorpion identification (Bought this as an Emperor Scorpion)???



## James Bradfield (Jul 1, 2017)




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## Stugy (Jul 1, 2017)

Highly unlikely that it is an Emperor depending on where you purchased it. To me I see an Asian Forest scorpion (Heterometrus sp.). I don't know too much on whether or not the Emperor ban affected Canada though.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## James Bradfield (Jul 1, 2017)

Stugy said:


> Highly unlikely that it is an Emperor depending on where you purchased it. To me I see an Asian Forest scorpion (Heterometrus sp.). I don't know too much on whether or not the Emperor ban affected Canada though.


This is a video of an Emperor Scorpion and it looks exactly like the one I have. Check it out


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## Stugy (Jul 1, 2017)

James Bradfield said:


> This is a video of an Emperor Scorpion and it looks exactly like the one I have. Check it out


But Asian Forest scorpions look extremely similar also :/ I think I read that the claws of Pandinus imperator and dictator are very granulated while yours is not so much, resembling Heterometrus due to that. See even in the video the claws of the scorpion are heavily granulated.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Stugy (Jul 1, 2017)

But I may just be completely stupid as this is not my thing. @ArachnoDrew @RTTB Maybe you guys can shed a bit more on this?


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## Extensionofgreen (Jul 2, 2017)

It's not an emperor. The claws are much too smooth and not rounded enough. @Stugy is correct.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## RTTB (Jul 2, 2017)

It's an AFS. Good call.


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## ArachnoDrew (Jul 2, 2017)

I really HOPE you didn't pay the price of an emporer.... their is a big price difference. If possible see what you can do about that


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## Galapoheros (Jul 2, 2017)

Baby emps have smooth chela/claws and are narrow like Heterometrus adults.  However that is a Heterometrus, baby emps always have very light, almost white-light brown telsons(bulbous part of the stinger).  It's just too dark there to be an emp.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## darkness975 (Jul 2, 2017)

That is not a _Pandinus spp_. It's a _Heterometrus spp_. @James Bradfield


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## Stugy (Jul 2, 2017)

rest in pepperoni wallet if you paid Emperor price

Reactions: Like 1


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## James Bradfield (Jul 3, 2017)

Galapoheros said:


> Baby emps have smooth chela/claws and are narrow like Heterometrus adults.  However that is a Heterometrus, baby emps always have very light, almost white-light brown telsons(bulbous part of the stinger).  It's just too dark there to be an emp.


The very tip of the balb on the stinger does go a very light color when it molted the stinger was very light compared to the rest of the tail.


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## darkness975 (Jul 3, 2017)

James Bradfield said:


> The very tip of the balb on the stinger does go a very light color when it molted the stinger was very light compared to the rest of the tail.


_Pandinus spp. _and _Heterometrus spp. _look similar when younger but as they grow they start to show differences in their characteristics that distinguish the two.


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## James Bradfield (Jul 3, 2017)

darkness975 said:


> _Pandinus spp. _and _Heterometrus spp. _look similar when younger but as they grow they start to show differences in their characteristics that distinguish the two.


This picture is a very close up picture. This Scorpion is a very young scorpion and there is no telling the two apart. Today I brought the scorpion back to the breeder and showed them that every one on this forum is saying it's a "Asain Forest Scorpion", and they showed me the parents on site which was definitely a "Emperor Scorpion" by the size of it's claws. I am 100% convinced now that it is indeed an Emperor Scorpion after seeing the parents.


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## darkness975 (Jul 3, 2017)

James Bradfield said:


> This picture is a very close up picture. This Scorpion is a very young scorpion and there is no telling the two apart. Today I brought the scorpion back to the breeder and showed them that every one on this forum is saying it's a "Asain Forest Scorpion", and they showed me the parents on site which was definitely a "Emperor Scorpion" by the size of it's claws. I am 100% convinced now that it is indeed an Emperor Scorpion after seeing the parents.


It is not an Emperor Scorpion.

But I digress.

The care is the same for both species so give it the proper set up and it will remain healthy.


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## James Bradfield (Jul 3, 2017)

darkness975 said:


> It is not an Emperor Scorpion.
> 
> But I digress.
> 
> The care is the same for both species so give it the proper set up and it will remain healthy.


This is 100% an Emperor Scorpion, did you see the parents of this scorpion? Well I did today, I did not truly think it was either so I went to the reptile store to complain that they don't label their animals proper, and they double looked at my scorpion they sold me, and took me in their back room and showed me both the female and male used in the breeding which were Emperor parents 100%, huge claws on the parents just like a Emperor. How can I argue with that?


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## darkness975 (Jul 3, 2017)

James Bradfield said:


> This is 100% an Emperor Scorpion, did you see the parents of this scorpion? Well I did today, I did not truly think it was either so I went to the reptile store to complain that they don't label their animals proper, and they double looked at my scorpion they sold me, and took me in their back room and showed me both the female and male used in the breeding which were Emperor parents 100%, huge claws on the parents just like a Emperor. How can I argue with that?


You know for a fact that you saw the true biological parents?  How easy is it to claim something?  They may very well have a pair of Emps but it does not mean your specimen came from them.  _Heterometrus spp. _are easy enough to acquire. Is this a known breeder or a random pet store somewhere? @Galapoheros is one of the people that said it is not an Emp, and he has a lot more experience in this than many.  @gromgrom is another that could take a look at it.  You could post a few more images to help with the identification.


Honestly, all that matters is that it is cared for properly, it doesn't matter what species it is. On that note, may I inquire as to the set up you have for it?  What are the temps/humidity?  Does it have enough substrate to burrow?


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## ArachnoDrew (Jul 3, 2017)

Can you  post more  pictures..... trust me man we are absolutely not her to knock your scorp but truly based off that pic it doesnt appear to be emp.... and in all honesty them showing you the "parent's " could be another random 2 emperors they already had, we hope that isnt the case but most reptile stores are extremely un knowledgeable into detail on species and genus. Asian forest are very very very commonly sold  as emps.. but who knows maybe you bought an odd ball lol  hopefully you got what you paid gor ultimately


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## James Bradfield (Jul 3, 2017)

darkness975 said:


> You know for a fact that you saw the true biological parents?  How easy is it to claim something?  They may very well have a pair of Emps but it does not mean your specimen came from them.  _Heterometrus spp. _are easy enough to acquire. Is this a known breeder or a random pet store somewhere? @Galapoheros is one of the people that said it is not an Emp, and he has a lot more experience in this than many.  @gromgrom is another that could take a look at it.  You could post a few more images to help with the identification.
> 
> 
> Honestly, all that matters is that it is cared for properly, it doesn't matter what species it is. On that note, may I inquire as to the set up you have for it?  What are the temps/humidity?  Does it have enough substrate to burrow?


Yes, I have a proper set up, as far as I know. One thing I don't do with my scorpion is keep the temps, I really need another temperature gage. I trust the people that sold the scorpion to me because I've known them a very long time, but who knows really. I shouldn't have said 100% because who knows anyone could be wrong, the lady Karen from the All Reptiles store where I bought my scorpion said both Asian Forest scorpion and emperors look exactly the same when they are young, and she said I will see once it get a bit bigger that it really is an Emperor, so I'm going to let this scorpion grow and see for myself. I do appreciate everyone's advice. Again I could be wrong, and so can the people where I got it from.


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## ArachnoDrew (Jul 3, 2017)

@Collin Clary word trumps all on asian forest types imo lol


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## James Bradfield (Jul 3, 2017)

ArachnoDrew said:


> Can you  post more  pictures..... trust me man we are absolutely not her to knock your scorp but truly based off that pic it doesnt appear to be emp.... and in all honesty them showing you the "parent's " could be another random 2 emperors they already had, we hope that isnt the case but most reptile stores are extremely un knowledgeable into detail on species and genus. Asian forest are very very very commonly sold  as emps.. but who knows maybe you bought an odd ball lol  hopefully you got what you paid gor ultimately


I will post more pictures now.

Reactions: Like 1


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## darkness975 (Jul 3, 2017)

James Bradfield said:


> One thing I don't do with my scorpion is keep the temps,


Keep it around 78ish Fahrenheit


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## James Bradfield (Jul 3, 2017)

James Bradfield said:


> I will post more pictures now.


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## James Bradfield (Jul 3, 2017)




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## James Bradfield (Jul 3, 2017)

darkness975 said:


> Keep it around 78ish Fahrenheit


Thank you I will keep temp at 78f


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## Galapoheros (Jul 3, 2017)

To double check, I have many imperators, babies, juvs and adults. Below is a juv with a typical light colored telson.  Your pic may be at an angle that makes the telson look darker than it is.  The one below is further along that the one you have.  The claws fill out with molts as you know.  Look at the telson, it's still very light colored and darkens to a darker brown when adult.  If yours has a telson darker than this, you should question it.  A better pic will clear it up. I included a better pic of a baby Heterometrus, the telson is really dark and generally has a diff shape than imperator.

Well obviously there is a photobucket problem, I'm getting frustrated with that site, too many ads slowing things down.  Well, I think if you click on the "update account" message, you can go to the pics.



juv imp but further along in molts than yours





Close-up of the light colored telson





These are both adults showing the brown telson though I did have one imperator that had a jet-black telson, these are offspring, none of the offspring have had the jet black telson though I was hoping they would.





Here is a baby Heterometrus, H. petersii that looks to be about the same instar as the scorpion you have.





close up of the Heterometrus telson:


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## Galapoheros (Jul 3, 2017)

To double check, I have many imperators, babies, juvs and adults. Below is a juv with a typical light colored telson.  It's further along that the one you have.  The claws fill out with molts as you know.  Look at the telson, it's still very light colored and darkens to a darker brown when adult.  If yours has a telson darker than this, you should question it.  A better pic will clear it up. I included a better pic of a baby Heterometrus, the telson is really dark and generally has a diff shape than imperator.

photobucket sucks, why do they have to change things that work already.



juv imp but further along in molts than yours





Close-up of the light colored telson





These are both adults showing the brown telson though I did have one imperator that had a jet-black telson, these are offspring, none of the offspring have had the jet black telson though I was hoping they would.





Here is a baby Heterometrus, H. petersii that looks to be about the same instar as the scorpion you have.





close up of the Heterometrus telson:


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## James Bradfield (Jul 3, 2017)

Galapoheros said:


> To double check, I have many imperators, babies, juvs and adults. Below is a juv with a typical light colored telson.  Your pic may be at an angle that makes the telson look darker than it is.  The one below is further along that the one you have.  The claws fill out with molts as you know.  Look at the telson, it's still very light colored and darkens to a darker brown when adult.  If yours has a telson darker than this, you should question it.  A better pic will clear it up. I included a better pic of a baby Heterometrus, the telson is really dark and generally has a diff shape than imperator.
> 
> Well obviously there is a photobucket problem, I'm getting frustrated with that site, too many ads slowing things down.
> 
> ...


It want let me see any third party pictures from photo bucket, so I was not able to see the pics you posted. What is a telson, and I will look at mine and let you know what mine looks like on my scorpion.


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## Galapoheros (Jul 3, 2017)

James Bradfield said:


> It want let me see any third party pictures from photo bucket, so I was not able to see the pics you posted. What is a telson, and I will look at mine and let you know what mine looks like on my scorpion.


Yeah something is wrong but try clicking on the message, it takes me to the pic, click on the area that says, "update your account...."

Apparently I have to now pay $399.99 for 3rd party hosting, FUUUUUget that!

Reactions: Funny 1


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## James Bradfield (Jul 3, 2017)

Galapoheros said:


> Yeah something is wrong but try clicking on the message, it takes me to the pic, click on the area that says, "update your account...."
> 
> Apparently I have to now pay $399.99 for 3rd party hosting, FUUUUUget that!


Just tell me what the telson is on the scorpion and I'll look?


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## Galapoheros (Jul 3, 2017)

go to the bottom of this page or google 'scorpion telson'   https://arthropodus.com/2014/03/21/anatomie-d-un-scorpion/


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## James Bradfield (Jul 3, 2017)

Galapoheros said:


> go to the bottom of this page or google 'scorpion telson'   https://arthropodus.com/2014/03/21/anatomie-d-un-scorpion/


The telson is the pincher, why not just say that, lol. Instead of sending me to a link given in french, or whatever it was. The pincher on mine is dark, but goes light in color when it molted.


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## Galapoheros (Jul 3, 2017)

No it's not the pincher.  Go to that site and "go to the bottom", look at the bottom image.  The telson is the combo of the stinger and the bulbous "thingy".  You'll get the picture when you see a picture of anatomy, or simply google 'scorpion telson'.


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## James Bradfield (Jul 3, 2017)

Galapoheros said:


> No it's not the pincher.  Go to that site and "go to the bottom", look at the bottom image.  The telson is the combo of the stinger and the bulbous "thingy".  You'll get the picture when you see a picture of anatomy, or simply google 'scorpion telson'.


Ok, thanks. The telson is light colored when it molts.


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## Galapoheros (Jul 4, 2017)

Practically all scorpions molt out light colored.  What matters is if the telson is really dark several days after it molts and it's not mature, if it turns dark then it's not an imperator.  You can look at my pics this way, go here  http://s146.photobucket.com/user/galapoheros/library/?sort=3&page=1   If you're seeing what I do on that page, the first two pics on the second row, looking from left to right, are pics of a young Heterometrus petersii that looks to be around the same molt stage as yours.  If the telson looks dark like in that pic several days after it molts(give it a week or two, usually takes less but just to nail it down for sure), then it's not an imperator.  The first pic on the third row is the telson of an immature imperator long after a molt that is further along in molts than yours is.  btw some heterometrus telsons are light colored through molts, but yours looks dark in the photos and no imperators I've seen have dark telsons when not mature, I've seen 100s of them.


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## James Bradfield (Jul 4, 2017)

Galapoheros said:


> Practically all scorpions molt out light colored.  What matters is if the telson is really dark several days after it molts and it's not mature, if it turns dark then it's not an imperator.  You can look at my pics this way, go here  http://s146.photobucket.com/user/galapoheros/library/?sort=3&page=1   If you're seeing what I do on that page, the first two pics on the second row, looking from left to right, are pics of a young Heterometrus petersii that looks to be around the same molt stage as yours.  If the telson looks dark like in that pic several days after it molts(give it a week or two, usually takes less but just to nail it down for sure), then it's not an imperator.  The first pic on the third row is the telson of an immature imperator long after a molt that is further along in molts than yours is.  btw some heterometrus telsons are light colored through molts, but yours looks dark in the photos and no imperators I've seen have dark telsons when not mature, I've seen 100s of them.


The Telson on mine is a lighter color than the rest of my scorpions body, I just had to use a flash light because it's dark in my room. So what is it when the one I have is light on the Telson? And today it's been about a week since it last molted.


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## James Bradfield (Jul 4, 2017)

James Bradfield said:


> The Telson on mine is a lighter color than the rest of my scorpions body, I just had to use a flash light because it's dark in my room. So what is it when the one I have is light on the Telson? And today it's been about a week since it last molted.


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## darkness975 (Jul 4, 2017)

Here are the Chela  (claws) of one of my baby Emperors.

@James Bradfield


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## James Bradfield (Jul 4, 2017)

darkness975 said:


> Here are the Chela  (claws) of one of my baby Emperors @James Bradfield


The claws on mine are not as big as that because mine is a lot smaller than your scorpions. Look at the close up picture of mine, it's on my hand and looks to be very young, it is not even 2" in length. Big difference than the ones in the two pictures you just showed me.


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## darkness975 (Jul 4, 2017)

James Bradfield said:


> View attachment 244993
> 
> 
> The claws on mine are not as big as that because mine is a lot smaller than your scorpions. Look at the close up picture of mine, it's on my hand and looks to be very young, it is not even 2" in length. Big difference than the ones in the two pictures you just showed me.


The one I posted is only instar 4


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## darkness975 (Jul 4, 2017)

@James Bradfield Here are more pics of mine.

@Galapoheros @Collin Clary @gromgrom can you confirm the ID of my babies please ?


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## James Bradfield (Jul 4, 2017)

darkness975 said:


> The one I posted is only instar 4


Ya so your scorpion is double the size if yours is 4". The stinger just look dark because of the lighting in my place, and the fact I'm using a web cam. I'm telling you I used a flash light this morning and it's Telson is in fact a lot lighter than the rest of the tail.


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## darkness975 (Jul 4, 2017)

James Bradfield said:


> Ya so your scorpion is double the size if yours is 4". The stinger just look dark because of the lighting in my place, and the fact I'm using a web cam. I'm telling you I used a flash light this morning and it's Telson is in fact a lot lighter than the rest of the tail.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They are not 4 inches. They are 4 instar which means they molted 3 times since birth


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## James Bradfield (Jul 4, 2017)

darkness975 said:


> They are not 4 inches. They are 4 instar which means they molted 3 times since birth


I want it to be an Asain Forest Scorpion, but the balb (Telson) on the tip of it's tail is Light, in some of the pictures it look Black, I don't know why? But it does, and it's not like I'm using a photographers camera or anything, my web came really suck and pictures never look the same as it does in person. I thank you for trying to help me figure it out, and your Emperor scorpions look amazing!


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## gromgrom (Jul 4, 2017)

I'm not great on IDs of these scorpions but the heavy granulation on the chela makes me think Pandinus over Heterometrus


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## darkness975 (Jul 4, 2017)

gromgrom said:


> I'm not great on IDs of these scorpions but the heavy granulation on the chela makes me think Pandinus over Heterometrus


For his or mine ? Mine are Pandinus. 

@James Bradfield Sure thing. No one is trying to be repetitive or monotonous we really want to try and properly ID yours. 

I know mine are Pandinus which is why I was trying to get some pictures you can compare to yours in person 

And thanks , I don't give them the attention they deserve , especially being so rare and expensive now.


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## Galapoheros (Jul 4, 2017)

That pic is not focused, still looks like you have a Heterometrus species there, aka, Asian Forest scorpion.  The telson is too dark for it to be an imperator even if it's lighter than the rest of your scorpion.  The telson on that one also has the shape of many Heterometrus species.  The common Heterometrus species in the market is Heterometrus petersii, that would be my guess.  Easier if you post a focused pic on that telson, but ...it's already pretty obvious it's a Heterometrus sps.


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## James Bradfield (Jul 4, 2017)

darkness975 said:


> For his or mine ? Mine are Pandinus.
> 
> @James Bradfield Sure thing. No one is trying to be repetitive or monotonous we really want to try and properly ID yours.
> 
> ...


Thank you for helping me by showing me your pictures. I am really hoping it's an Asian Forest Scorpion, I've already ordered another scorpion from Tarantula Canada, and 2 Green Bottle Blue Tarantulas. Can't wait to see them arrive at my door. I also am getting into breeding Boas, Blood pythons, Ball pythons, King snakes, Corn snakes, and the other 4 species of Tarantulas. Thanks again, I'm going to be working on getting better pictures with a better cam soon.

Reactions: Like 1


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## James Bradfield (Jul 4, 2017)

Galapoheros said:


> That pic is not focused, still looks like you have a Heterometrus species there, aka, Asian Forest scorpion.  The telson is too dark for it to be an imperator even if it's lighter than the rest of your scorpion.  The telson on that one also has the shape of many Heterometrus species.  The common Heterometrus species in the market is Heterometrus petersii, that would be my guess.  Easier if you post a focused pic on that telson, but ...it's already pretty obvious it's a Heterometrus sps.


I trust you know your scorpions, so I appreciate what you know. I want to figure out what kind of Heteromatrus species it is and find more of them. You say it looks closer to a Heterometrus petersii so I do my research on them. Thanks for letting me know. I want to learn more about the different kinds of scorpion out there.


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## darkness975 (Jul 4, 2017)

James Bradfield said:


> I trust you know your scorpions, so I appreciate what you know. I want to figure out what kind of Heteromatrus species it is and find more of them. You say it looks closer to a Heterometrus petersii so I do my research on them. Thanks for letting me know. I want to learn more about the different kinds of scorpion out there.


There are a great many for sure . 

And you're welcome,  were glad to help. This is your #1 resource for all things invertebrate now that you have found us. 

Cheers.


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## James Bradfield (Jul 5, 2017)

darkness975 said:


> There are a great many for sure .
> 
> And you're welcome,  were glad to help. This is your #1 resource for all things invertebrate now that you have found us.
> 
> Cheers.


Thanks again. Glad their are people who know their scorpions, and I'll be looking forward to learning more about my scorpion. This is a really cool site.

Reactions: Agree 1


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