# Did I Buy Emperor Scorpions or Asian Forest? Need Help Identifying!



## Kade135 (Oct 12, 2016)

I bought these two Scorpions at Petsmart the other day, one is a baby and one is larger. They were labeled as "Emperor" but then the employees argued with each other that they were actually "Asian Forest" and I left the store without knowing what I really got. I bought them at different times, the Baby one was sold to me as an Emperor, the bigger one was sold to me without knowing. I don't trust pet stores with this stuff, so what do you guys think? The baby one is pretty nice, the bigger one is more aggressive, not sure if it means anything. Can i house them together? Or do they need to be the same size? I have 18 T's and want to start collecting Scorps, so any help would be great!


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## shining (Oct 13, 2016)

They both look like Heterometrus species.

How much did you pay for them?


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## Kade135 (Oct 13, 2016)

shining said:


> They both look like Heterometrus species.
> 
> How much did you pay for them?


$16.99 Each


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## shining (Oct 13, 2016)

Kade135 said:


> $16.99 Each


From the pictures and pricing they are both Heterometrus species (afs). Pandinus imperator (emperor) prices are easily triple the amount you paid. I'm glad you didn't get ripped off.


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## Galapoheros (Oct 13, 2016)

Yes, Heterometrus, you got a good deal on them though imo, and you know the younger one will last a long time if it stays healthy.  When you buy adults, you just don't know how long they will last because you don't know how old they are.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Collin Clary (Oct 13, 2016)

Yes, definitely a _Heterometrus _species_. _If you can get clear pics of the carapace, chela, and 5th metasomal segment, I can ID it for you.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Insertcoolnamehere (Jan 8, 2017)

Collin Clary said:


> Yes, definitely a _Heterometrus _species_. _If you can get clear pics of the carapace, chela, and 5th metasomal segment, I can ID it for you.


I was wondering if you can I'd for me as well


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## Ran (Jan 9, 2017)

Yours are also Heterometrus sp..


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## Christianb96 (Jan 9, 2017)

The best way to tell the two apart is an Emperor usually has a red stinger, and large bumpy claws for future reference

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Stugy (Jan 9, 2017)

Christianb96 said:


> The best way to tell the two apart is an Emperor usually has a red stinger, and large bumpy claws for future reference


But I've seen H.spinifer with red stingers so yeahh... plus there are quite a few Heterometrus with bumpy claws and all have large ones too.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## BobBarley (Jan 10, 2017)

Christianb96 said:


> The best way to tell the two apart is an Emperor usually has a red stinger, and large bumpy claws for future reference





Stugy said:


> But I've seen H.spinifer with red stingers so yeahh... plus there are quite a few Heterometrus with bumpy claws and all have large ones too.


Pandinus claws are much more granulated and thicker.  Keep in mind, Pandinus cavimanus shares these traits with Pandinus imperator, and I believe, with most other Pandinus.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## darkness975 (Jan 10, 2017)

_Heterometrus spp._


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## Collin Clary (Jan 12, 2017)

Insertcoolnamehere said:


> I was wondering if you can I'd for me as well


Can you take clearer pictures? Looks like a _H. petersii_ but those pictures are too blurry for me to be sure.


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## Toxoderidae (Jan 12, 2017)

Insertcoolnamehere said:


> I was wondering if you can I'd for me as well


The first one is a _munchingonthismealworm tastii _

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Collin Clary (Jan 12, 2017)

Christianb96 said:


> The best way to tell the two apart is an Emperor usually has a red stinger, and large bumpy claws for future reference





Stugy said:


> But I've seen H.spinifer with red stingers so yeahh... plus there are quite a few Heterometrus with bumpy claws and all have large ones too.





BobBarley said:


> Pandinus claws are much more granulated and thicker.  Keep in mind, Pandinus cavimanus shares these traits with Pandinus imperator, and I believe, with most other Pandinus.


Alright, a few things here...

1.) Many _Heterometrus_ species do have red telsons (_H. spinifer _and _H. longimanus_, for example), and many species do indeed have heavily granulated chela.

2.) _Pandinus _sensu lato is undergoing quite a bit of taxonomic work. A lot of it was awful (namely the work by Andrea Rossi), but until more work is published, we must follow the most recent publications. Thus _Pandinus cavimanus _is now correctly called_ Pandinoides cavimanus._ There are also two other _Pandinoides_ species (_P. duffmackayi_ and _P. militaris_) that look incredibly similar and have very similar geographic ranges. 

3.) _Pandinopsis dictator_ has recently entered the hobby, and is frequently sold as _Pandinus imperator_, so that's another thing to look out for. 

4. ) There are _Pandinus_ species that look incredibly similar to _P. imperator_ that specimens could potentially be. While many of these species are not in the hobby, with the exportation bans in place, importers may seek what they believe to be _P. Imperator _from other countries. Some species may only be differentiated by features best seen with a dissecting microscope. This is you are not certain about the ID of certain specimens, it may be worth it to send either dead specimens preserved in alcohol or shed exuviae from subadults to someone that can confirm the ID. There are also numerous ID keys available. I can post a few if people are interested.

Reactions: Like 2 | Informative 3


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## BobBarley (Jan 12, 2017)

Thank you so much for all the info! 



Collin Clary said:


> There are also numerous ID keys available. I can post a few if people are interested.


If possible, that'd be great thank you!


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## ScorpionCollector91 (Jan 25, 2017)

Certainly not Pandinus.  Heterometrus ++


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## Collin Clary (Jan 28, 2017)

Sorry guys, I've been busy. I'll post up a few keys later today.


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## Collin Clary (Jan 29, 2017)

Alright, keys for both _Heterometrus _and _Pandinus_ can be found in this book: http://scorpion-files.blogspot.com/2009/03/part-i-of-illustrated-catalog-of.html?m=0

More _Heterometrus_ papers: 
http://www.repository.naturalis.nl/document/149049

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...pxs_pAy0-x4Qv4EBg&sig2=M5rN5zKViDIn2VNvXV8BUA

http://digitallibrary.amnh.org/bitstream/handle/2246/6535/N3805.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

https://www.researchgate.net/profil...Cytogenetic-Data-in-Taxonomy-of-the-Genus.pdf

As for _Pandinus_ sensu lato, reading through these blog posts should give an idea of what's going on with the genus (or genera, I should say now). 

http://scorpion-files.blogspot.com/search/label/Pandinus

Reactions: Like 2 | Informative 2


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## gromgrom (Jan 29, 2017)

Colin, you're a true asset to the hobby  It's great to see someone whose done their research on this genus, or at least has the links available. Kudos! 

Also I'm gonna be the sixth or tenth to say HETEROMETRUS

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Collin Clary (Jan 29, 2017)

Thanks for the kind words, Dustin. _Pandinus _and _Heterometrus_ species have always been my favorite scorpions. I had always found it odd that despite being the most common species in the hobby (at least when I started anyway), that the overwhelming majority of people in the hobby know relatively little about them, particularly when it comes to taxonomy. So, at some point I took it upon myself to learn as much about the two genera as I could.


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