# Which/how to grow live moss in T enclosures



## fieldarachno (Sep 26, 2021)

Was wondering if anyone has experience going out into the woods to look for live moss to get for their enclosures. I'm worried about bringing in pests that could negatively impact my Ts and how I would deal with those pests. I'm not even sure where to begin and reviewing past posts here doesn't seem to bring up much info. Are there any special rules to know for keeping moss in T enclosures besides the obvious ones such as don't put moss in enclosures for species that aren't moisture dependent?


----------



## DaveM (Sep 26, 2021)

I have been doing this for many years now, taking small slabs of live moss for use in Theraphosa spp. moist cage setups. It looks nice, may assist slightly with moisture retention, lives very well with normal indoor/dim lighting. I use springtails in these enclosures to help keep things clean. It's easy enough to avoid macroscopic pests like ants and centipedes. One thing: the spiders usually prefer not to sit on top of the moss -- they traverse over the moss just fine when hunting, but they never seem to stay there -- so I recommend using the moss sparingly, leaving most of the floor area/substrate bare. I can't say what common opinion will be, but I've never had any problems. Good luck

Reactions: Like 1 | Thinking 1


----------



## viper69 (Sep 26, 2021)

What species of T do you believe this needed for?


----------



## DaveM (Sep 27, 2021)

viper69 said:


> What species of T do you believe this needed for?


Oh. It didn't occur to me that OP might feel the moss is necessary. I thought he just might want it for aesthetics.
OK, OP, you have been asked a question, and you *must *answer. I'm interested in what you might say also. Good luck

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## viper69 (Sep 27, 2021)

DaveM said:


> Oh. It didn't occur to me that OP might feel the moss is necessary. I thought he just might want it for aesthetics.
> OK, OP, you have been asked a question, and you *must *answer. I'm interested in what you might say also. Good luck


Ive always heard you need bright light, though indirect I think, to keep moss nice and green?


----------



## DaveM (Sep 27, 2021)

viper69 said:


> Ive always heard you need bright light, though indirect I think, to keep moss nice and green?


I have done some very crude testing. I regret that I didn't photograph all of my samples.




The one on the right was in a very dim room, could barely see to move around, not enough light to read anything (sorry, knowing you @viper69, you will expect precise measurements! I didn't use a photometer, probably around 0.1-0.2 lux during the day). The moss died, but not before growing hirsute extensions in the desperate search for more light. 

On the left is a current enclosure in a large spider room lit by a 100 W-equivalent torchère lamp on a day/night timer (maybe around 40 lux for 12 hours a day, with many spots of darker shade). Here the moss lives well-behaved (i.e. without growing much in size), maintains a nice green. The overhanging plant leaf is the common plastic/artificial kind for comparison. I'm not sure if you can tell, but the moss is actually a little bit more verdant in the shade of the leaf -- that's about the lower bound for light that the moss will tolerate without browning and growing stringy shoots to find new light or, that failing, dying. So, I think there's a sweet spot. Many plants boost total chlorophyll (and change a/b ratio) becoming greener in reduced light, but below some lower tolerance threshold the moss will give up, brown, and string out into a messy death. I apologize for gratuitous anthropomorphism.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## l4nsky (Sep 27, 2021)

viper69 said:


> Ive always heard you need bright light, though indirect I think, to keep moss nice and green?


I have a "bioreactor" that I have some wild collected moss in. The room I keep it in has a southern facing window and that's all that is needed to keep it green.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Edan bandoot (Sep 27, 2021)

I tried growing moss last year in about the same conditions you'd keep a south American spider.

Damp substrate that dries out on top, high ventilation, in a room with a window, but no direct light.

Resulted in brown dead moss.

If you're going to try to keep it looking lush you're going to need to care for the moss more than the spider.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## viper69 (Sep 27, 2021)

l4nsky said:


> I have a "bioreactor" that I have some wild collected moss in. The room I keep it in has a southern facing window and that's all that is needed to keep it green.


The dart froggers know a lot about this kind of things too.

@Frogdaddy growing moss?

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## DaveM (Sep 27, 2021)

Edan bandoot said:


> I tried growing moss last year in about the same conditions you'd keep a south American spider.
> 
> Damp substrate that dries out on top, high ventilation, in a room with a window, but no direct light.
> 
> ...


It's interesting. That has not been my experience, so I wonder what the difference could be. My moss never gives me any trouble at all, really effortless.
My moist tanks do not have very high ventilation. I put the moss in corners of the tank where I add water -- convenient, actually, that I can pour in water on top of the moss without muddying or messing up the substrate -- so the moss is always at least damp (springtails save me). I wonder if the moss doesn't like drying out. Then we could consider that there are so many different species of mosses, no doubt with diverse habitat preferences.
Here's a useful guide to identifying different bryophytes: https://www.life.illinois.edu/moss-guide/toc.html


----------



## Edan bandoot (Sep 28, 2021)

DaveM said:


> It's interesting. That has not been my experience, so I wonder what the difference could be. My moss never gives me any trouble at all, really effortless.
> My moist tanks do not have very high ventilation. I put the moss in corners of the tank where I add water -- convenient, actually, that I can pour in water on top of the moss without muddying or messing up the substrate -- so the moss is always at least damp (springtails save me). I wonder if the moss doesn't like drying out. Then we could consider that there are so many different species of mosses, no doubt with diverse habitat preferences.
> Here's a useful guide to identifying different bryophytes: https://www.life.illinois.edu/moss-guide/toc.html


Well I wouldn't consider the enclosures moist like an Asian arboreal enclosure, just damp.


----------



## DaveM (Sep 28, 2021)

Edan bandoot said:


> Well I wouldn't consider the enclosures moist like an Asian arboreal enclosure, just damp.


I see.
Perhaps some hints could be gleaned from the light exposure and moisture the moss gets where it grows in nature. Maybe you know the trick that moss (in the northern hemisphere) has a tendency to grow on the north sides of trees to avoid southern sun exposure. The moss I posted above, I collected it from underneath a deck behind my house. It lived in complete shade, with only very dim reflected light from woodland surroundings. The ground was always moist (because I live in a wet valley). Then I see other moss species sometimes growing on rocks that get partial sun. I wonder if those mosses would not fair so well in a dimly lit spider room.


----------



## Edan bandoot (Sep 28, 2021)

DaveM said:


> I see.
> Perhaps some hints could be gleaned from the light exposure and moisture the moss gets where it grows in nature. Maybe you know the trick that moss (in the northern hemisphere) has a tendency to grow on the north sides of trees to avoid southern sun exposure. The moss I posted above, I collected it from underneath a deck behind my house. It lived in complete shade, with only very dim reflected light from woodland surroundings. The ground was always moist (because I live in a wet valley). Then I see other moss species sometimes growing on rocks that get partial sun. I wonder if those mosses would not fair so well in a dimly lit spider room.


My moss was collected from the sidewalk in my backyard, I think you're thinking of lichen on the trees which is partly algae.(?)


----------



## DaveM (Sep 28, 2021)

Edan bandoot said:


> I think you're thinking of lichen on the trees which is partly algae.(?)


 I do believe we both agree and understand what moss is.









						Does Moss Only Grow on the North Side of Trees?
					

The idea that moss grows on the north side of trees is an old one, says Dan Johnson of the College of Natural Resources at the University of Idaho, "and it makes a lot of sense."




					www.mentalfloss.com
				





			UCSB Science Line
		









						Moss on the North Side of Trees
					

No piece of natural navigation is better known than 'moss grows on the north side of trees'. However this technique wouldn't get into my top 20.




					www.naturalnavigator.com
				




I posted photos of my moss above, here: https://arachnoboards.com/threads/which-how-to-grow-live-moss-in-t-enclosures.349681/post-3226167
Lichens are different and fascinating kinds of composite organisms, but they don't exactly fit within the Live Plants category in which this thread is posted.
Good idea though: now I'll have to think how some kind of lichen might be grown indoors; they are reputed to be hardy survivors.


----------



## Edan bandoot (Sep 28, 2021)

DaveM said:


> I do believe we both agree and understand what moss is.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


ah where i live right now we dont have moss on the trees, we have lichens so i thought you were confused mb.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Frogdaddy (Sep 28, 2021)

viper69 said:


> The dart froggers know a lot about this kind of things too.
> 
> @Frogdaddy growing moss?


I've killed a lot of moss. Never had much success with live moss. The most successful moss I've had was actually java moss that I grew terrestrially. I grew it on a coconut hut I was using for frogs.  There are mosses from all over the world so you have to know what you're dealing with to provide the proper conditions. Like our native North American mosses need a cool dormant period. 
I've seen froggers put moss in a blender with some sort of buttermilk solution then smear that where you want moss to grow. There is also a few online herp supply places that sell moss kits. But by and large it's more trouble than it's worth. Most spiders won't appreciate the extra moisture or light required to grow moss. If it were a big display tank for a T. stirmi or something I get the appeal. But a couple of plants and leaf litter can create an amazing natural feel without going through the trouble of moss.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## DaveM (Sep 28, 2021)

I found some online guides on growing indoor moss gardens.









						How To Grow Moss Indoors (Quick Guide For Beginners) - GardenTabs.com
					

Moss creates a stunning visual effect in any indoor space, so it’s no surprise that you want to create an indoor moss garden of your own. Fortunately, this isn’t tough to accomplish! In this guide, I’ll give you the ins and outs of growing moss indoors, including how to care for your moss garden...




					gardentabs.com
				











						Martha's Top Tips for Growing a Thriving Moss Garden
					

Borrowed from nature and arranged in pots, lush moss gardens are like miniature enchanted forests. Martha Stewart shares her top tips for caring for moss gardens.




					www.marthastewart.com
				











						7 Moss garden ideas to bring nature inside home
					

7 creative ways to decorate home using moss. Indoor moss terrarium, moss wall decor, moss ball garden, moss graffiti, floor decor and zen garden using moss. Are you looking for ways to bring nature inside home and at the same time decorate your home? Indoor moss garden is an ideal option to try...



					gardential.com


----------



## schmiggle (Sep 28, 2021)

DaveM said:


> Maybe you know the trick that moss (in the northern hemisphere) has a tendency to grow on the north sides of trees to avoid southern sun exposure.


This is true in some places, but lemme tell you, where I'm from moss will grow just about anywhere on a tree. It's even more true in the Pacific Northwest. I say this not as a gotcha, just so that somebody doesn't read that and then go get themselves lost.


viper69 said:


> Ive always heard you need bright light, though indirect I think, to keep moss nice and green?


I think it depends on the species. Sphagnum generally does best in direct sunlight, but I can't imagine putting live sphagnum in a tarantula enclosure.


DaveM said:


> Good idea though: now I'll have to think how some kind of lichen might be grown indoors; they are reputed to be hardy survivors.


I've read that lichens indoors are very hard to keep alive. Most of the ones people like need a lot of light, especially the kind that grows on rocks, so that might be a lot of it.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## fieldarachno (Sep 28, 2021)

DaveM said:


> Oh. It didn't occur to me that OP might feel the moss is necessary. I thought he just might want it for aesthetics.
> OK, OP, you have been asked a question, and you *must *answer. I'm interested in what you might say also. Good luck


hah yes it's really for aesthetic but with the added benefit for my moisture dependent species (mostly my pamphobetuses).


----------



## DaveM (Sep 28, 2021)

schmiggle said:


> This is true in some places, but lemme tell you, where I'm from moss will grow just about anywhere on a tree. It's even more true in the Pacific Northwest. I say this not as a gotcha, just so that somebody doesn't read that and then go get themselves lost.


Good of you to look out for people. Yes, just an emergency survival hack that works in some places. It's a Boy Scouts and military trick.
@schmiggle, you would probably be from somewhere in the more cosmopolitan parts of New England, am I right? Eastern MA, RI, or CT?



schmiggle said:


> I've read that lichens indoors are very hard to keep alive. Most of the ones people like need a lot of light, especially the kind that grows on rocks, so that might be a lot of it.


I want to rise to the challenge. Some online guides make it look doable, if perhaps not well-suited for a tarantula enclosure.








						Lichen Gardens
					

Lichen Gardens: Lichens are incredible organisms. They're not plants and not animals. What are they then?  A lichen is a composite organism that arises from algae or cyanobacteria (or both) living among filaments of a fungus in a symbiotic relationship (I got that …




					www.instructables.com
				





			https://www.hunker.com/12604513/how-to-grow-reindeer-lichen-indoors
		


Really, it's this @Edan bandoot fellow that I admire so much. I can't move to Manitoba, but growing lichens would be one small step in that direction.
My moss has been trouble-free, really facile, but I haven't faced the challenges of Manitoba moss yet.
Without difficulties to face, there are no heroes. Too much ease and comfort could drive one to attack windmills.


----------



## schmiggle (Sep 28, 2021)

DaveM said:


> @schmiggle, you would probably be from somewhere in the more cosmopolitan parts of New England, am I right? Eastern MA, RI, or CT?


I was, yeah, Boston area. I've heard it's like that up farther north. Many of the forests in the Mountain West are too dry for the trees to have moss, but I don't remember what it was like in the wetter parts of Colorado.


DaveM said:


> I want to rise to the challenge. Some online guides make it look doable, if perhaps not well-suited for a tarantula enclosure.


Good on you. I used to work with a woman who grew lichens in terrarium, so if you're trying to grow them independently I'd be happy to ask for pointers.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Edan bandoot (Sep 28, 2021)

DaveM said:


> Good of you to look out for people. Yes, just an emergency survival hack that works in some places. It's a Boy Scouts and military trick.
> @schmiggle, you would probably be from somewhere in the more cosmopolitan parts of New England, am I right? Eastern MA, RI, or CT?
> 
> 
> ...


I'll link some pics of our moss and lichens here tomorrow if you're not being facetious

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## DaveM (Sep 29, 2021)

Edan bandoot said:


> I'll link some pics of our moss and lichens here tomorrow if you're not being facetious


Please do. Not facetious. It would be thrilling to see what can grow in Dfc and Dfb Köppen climate types. I know the northern parts of your province have polar bears! And, perhaps atypical for a person in my demographic category, I'm a fan of Margaret Laurence, especially _The Stone Angel_. SO, it seems to me that you have some of the best stuff and the best people, and that your mosses and lichens are likely to follow that trend as well.


----------



## Dorifto (Oct 4, 2021)

Edan bandoot said:


> I tried growing moss last year in about the same conditions you'd keep a south American spider.
> 
> Damp substrate that dries out on top, high ventilation, in a room with a window, but no direct light.
> 
> ...


You need to use an acid substrate, like sphagnum moss peat, or substrate for orchids. Also intead of watering it, mist it. The misting process will aerate the water. A little trick is to use a bit, A BIT of milk in the water, as it provides calcium and other nutrients.

The easiest one to keep is the vesicularia dubyana, but it also needs the biggest amount of moisture of all of them. Hypnum moss needs way less water, but it's harder to grow

This is two month and a half of growth of the dubyana:




And a chunk of hypnum that I took, but it died and revived again thanks to the misting system that activated during holidays.


----------



## Edan bandoot (Oct 4, 2021)

Oh, moss pics are delayed til Thursday, since I'm getting a real camera then

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Dorifto (Oct 4, 2021)

Get a pixel 6 phone


----------



## Dorifto (Oct 4, 2021)

viper69 said:


> Ive always heard you need bright light, though indirect I think, to keep moss nice and green?


Yep, if it's direct and powerfull enough they bleach, literally you will get a very very light green/yellowish moss, at least with the Vesicularia dubyana.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## viper69 (Oct 4, 2021)

Dorifto said:


> Yep, if it's direct and powerfull enough they bleach, literally you will get a very very light green/yellowish moss, at least with the Vesicularia dubyana.


Thanks I thought so, those were my results when I was a kid.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## DaveM (Oct 5, 2021)

Dorifto said:


> You need to use an acid substrate, like sphagnum moss peat,


That's useful to know. I've been having an easy time with my moss for some years now, and I do use sphagnum moss peat. It looks like you have substantial lighting @Dorifto.

Now I want to see what grows where @Edan bandoot lives. Happy he's getting a new camera

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Dorifto (Oct 6, 2021)

Strange, maybe you could add some substrate for orchids, or any acidic one.

Yes I have a good lightning, but the moss part is dimmed down a lot, as it bleaches them too fast, so I keep the back at level 2 of 5 and the front at 3-4. Also the moss doesn't like blue light, so I only use full spectum ones.

Reactions: Useful 1


----------



## CedarArachne (Mar 26, 2022)

DaveM said:


> The moss died, but not before growing hirsute extensions in the desperate search for more light.
> 
> Those are sporophytes. Plants have an alternation of generations. What people think of as moss is the haploid gameophyte generation. The sporophyte is the long thin stalk. It is elevated for better spore dispersal. Often when the moss is struggling it will put put out a ton of sporophytes hoping the spores end up in a more suitable environment to keep the parent's genetics going.

Reactions: Like 1


----------

