# Tailless whip scorpions (D. diadema) raise communally or separate?



## sschind (Mar 3, 2016)

With previous batches of D. diadema I always separated the babies after their second or third molt because I had read that sometimes they can be cannibalistic at this stage and for a while until they get older.  Most accounts say they are communal but I wanted to be safe.  With my last batch I decided to see if I could keep them communally so I set up a large tank for a dozen of them.  So far they are doing fine and I have noticed that those 12 seem to be larger and more robust than the ones I am raising separately.  They are not really growing any faster as the molting schedules are pretty close but they just seem to be bigger at the same stage of development.  Has anyone else noticed this.  I seem to recall reading in Orin McMonigle's whipspiders and whipscorpions book that he mentions this but for the life of me I can't find my copy to confirm that this is where I read it.

My theory is that when they are together they may feel the need to eat more to compete for food or maybe they are just getting more food because subconsciously we are told that to keep animals together we need to keep them well fed so we offer more food.  Like I said though, they are not really growing faster, just bigger.  It may also be that by being kept alone they feel more stressed because they don't have security in numbers so some of the food they eat is burned up in being stressed while in groups they feel more secure so more energy can go into growth.

Its pretty cool seeing a dozen or so big fat babies on the backside of a piece of cork but they are outgrowing their tank so its time to upgrade.  A pet shop I go to has a leaker corner pentagon tank that holds about 35 gallons so I may snag that and modify it to keep the group together.


----------



## MWAInverts (Mar 3, 2016)

I believe the general consensus for them is that you can keep them communally when raised all together as babies. Males should still be separated later on to avoid disputes and females are fine together. That's what I'm getting from all the research I've done on them in the past.

Reactions: Dislike 1 | Agree 1


----------



## Aquarimax (Mar 3, 2016)

I purchased three juvenile _D. diadema_ from the same clutch about 10 months ago, and have been keeping them together so far. All three have molted 3 times. One is significantly smaller than the other two, although it recently completed its third molt, so the size difference is not as great as it one was. It always seems to take longer to molt than the other two. They all seem to be doing fine, though I have no individually raised specimens to compare them with.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Ranitomeya (Mar 4, 2016)

You should be okay with keeping them together if they've always been together. At least until they've matured.
I do not recommend keeping unrelated females together. My current female killed two others when she produced her first clutch of eggs with me.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Tenevanica (Mar 4, 2016)

What the others have said is correct, but you'd get more responses if you posted this in the "true spiders and other arachnids" sub-forum. This forum is for non-arachnid invertebrates. A moderator will probably move this post though, so there's no need to fear.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Helpful 1


----------



## sschind (Mar 5, 2016)

Tenevanica said:


> What the others have said is correct, but you'd get more responses if you posted this in the "true spiders and other arachnids" sub-forum. This forum is for non-arachnid invertebrates. A moderator will probably move this post though, so there's no need to fear.



Thanks,

I thought I did.  Maybe I wasn't paying attention or clicked on the wrong forum or maybe I just didn't read past the true spiders part of that forum.  I don't know.


----------



## InvertsandOi (Mar 5, 2016)

Unfortunately I have zero experience with Amblypygids (still trying to convince my wife they won't escape and eat our children's souls at night) but I do happen to have the above mentioned book by Orin McMonigle right in front of me. I just skimmed over the chapter entitled "the social whipspider". I couldn't find anything about size differences in relation to communal versus solitary enclosures (doesn't mean it isn't there. I just skimmed and I am dyslexic), but it does say that it is very safe to keep them together for the first five or six instars. After that cannibalism is basically rare but far from unheard of. It also says that, according to a few experiments he did with damon diadema, they actually seem to be less aggressive when kept communally in tighter spaces as opposed to larger ones with more hides. He attributes this to "Facultative sociality may be a common occurrance across whipspider genera for late instars and adults that are not given the space to set up territories and are forced to keep in constant tactile communication." So maybe that big ole 35 gallon could do more harm than good? He does mention however that they didn't seem to be willing to reproduce in extremely tight quarters. Also, he seems to make it pretty clear throughout the book that aggressive behavior is usually apparent (if you're paying attention and know what to look for) before actual death and/or cannibalism occur. I want to be clear that I base none of this on my own experience, as I have none. Maybe people here have vast experience to the contrary. Just saw that the original post mentioned the book and not being able to find it. I happen to have it right in front of me.

Reactions: Like 1 | Helpful 1


----------



## sschind (Mar 6, 2016)

Nick H said:


> Unfortunately I have zero experience with Amblypygids (still trying to convince my wife they won't escape and eat our children's souls at night) but I do happen to have the above mentioned book by Orin McMonigle right in front of me. I just skimmed over the chapter entitled "the social whipspider". I couldn't find anything about size differences in relation to communal versus solitary enclosures (doesn't mean it isn't there. I just skimmed and I am dyslexic), but it does say that it is very safe to keep them together for the first five or six instars. After that cannibalism is basically rare but far from unheard of. It also says that, according to a few experiments he did with damon diadema, they actually seem to be less aggressive when kept communally in tighter spaces as opposed to larger ones with more hides. He attributes this to "Facultative sociality may be a common occurrance across whipspider genera for late instars and adults that are not given the space to set up territories and are forced to keep in constant tactile communication." So maybe that big ole 35 gallon could do more harm than good? He does mention however that they didn't seem to be willing to reproduce in extremely tight quarters. Also, he seems to make it pretty clear throughout the book that aggressive behavior is usually apparent (if you're paying attention and know what to look for) before actual death and/or cannibalism occur. I want to be clear that I base none of this on my own experience, as I have none. Maybe people here have vast experience to the contrary. Just saw that the original post mentioned the book and not being able to find it. I happen to have it right in front of me.



Thanks.  I may have misread something somewhere.  know I have my copy around somewhere but if you could see my bedroom you would understand why I can't find it.  The people from Hoarders came by to film during the last week in January and I caught a glimpse of one of the camera men just the other day.  I leave food out on a plate every night and in the morning its gone so I know they are still alive.  I suppose it  could be the rats now that I think of it but I don't think rats would go through a roll of toilet paper in three days.  I may have to break down and just buy Orins big book on them.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


----------



## InvertsandOi (Mar 6, 2016)

sschind said:


> Thanks.  I may have misread something somewhere.  know I have my copy around somewhere but if you could see my bedroom you would understand why I can't find it.  The people from Hoarders came by to film during the last week in January and I caught a glimpse of one of the camera men just the other day.  I leave food out on a plate every night and in the morning its gone so I know they are still alive.  I suppose it  could be the rats now that I think of it but I don't think rats would go through a roll of toilet paper in three days.  I may have to break down and just buy Orins big book on them.


You should try not to be so sensitive. I was only trying to be helpful.


----------



## Hisserdude (Mar 6, 2016)

Nick H said:


> You should try not to be so sensitive. I was only trying to be helpful.


I believe he was joking, lol!


----------



## InvertsandOi (Mar 6, 2016)

Hisserdude said:


> I believe he was joking, lol!


Hey, I guess I come from a place where the difference between jokes and disrespect are a little more clear. If no disrespect was intended, then I truly apologize. Text can be weird like that. Nuances could've been intended that I didn't pick up on. That would be my fault.  I'm new to these forums and so far I find them to be far more informative than anything else (including books) that I've been able to find. To me that is what's important. If I was wrong, then I apologize.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## sschind (Mar 6, 2016)

Nick H said:


> You should try not to be so sensitive. I was only trying to be helpful.





Nick H said:


> Hey, I guess I come from a place where the difference between jokes and disrespect are a little more clear. If no disrespect was intended, then I truly apologize. Text can be weird like that. Nuances could've been intended that I didn't pick up on. That would be my fault.  I'm new to these forums and so far I find them to be far more informative than anything else (including books) that I've been able to find. To me that is what's important. If I was wrong, then I apologize.



I was definitely joking Nick, If that's your real name .  I truly meant the thanks I offered up initially in my response and while my attempt at a joke vis a vis the hoarders is a bit off my room is a mess.  I took no offense at all to your initial post and it was helpful.  I totally get what you are saying about the written word being difficult to interpret. I reread my response and honestly I thought it was clear I was joking and I meant nothing disrespectful either but like you said different people interpret things in different ways.  

In fact when I read your second post (about being sensitive)  I had to go back and make sure you were not the one who suggested I actually post in the correct forum because in all honesty I think my response to Tenevanica may have been interpreted as defensive as well even though that was not the case at all.

This is a great forum and one of about 3 or 4 that I check almost daily.  I used to just check the for sale section though and it has been only in the last couple of weeks I started to hit the new posts button every day.  There is a wealth of great information to be had but the drawback is it takes a lot of time to go through it all.  I hadn't checked in 2 days and there were replies to I think 3 or 4 threads involving the tail less whips besides the one I started.  I gotta read em' all you know.


----------



## InvertsandOi (Mar 6, 2016)

sschind said:


> I was definitely joking Nick, If that's your real name .  I truly meant the thanks I offered up initially in my response and while my attempt at a joke vis a vis the hoarders is a bit off my room is a mess.  I took no offense at all to your initial post and it was helpful.  I totally get what you are saying about the written word being difficult to interpret. I reread my response and honestly I thought it was clear I was joking and I meant nothing disrespectful either but like you said different people interpret things in different ways.
> 
> In fact when I read your second post (about being sensitive)  I had to go back and make sure you were not the one who suggested I actually post in the correct forum because in all honesty I think my response to Tenevanica may have been interpreted as defensive as well even though that was not the case at all.
> 
> This is a great forum and one of about 3 or 4 that I check almost daily.  I used to just check the for sale section though and it has been only in the last couple of weeks I started to hit the new posts button every day.  There is a wealth of great information to be had but the drawback is it takes a lot of time to go through it all.  I hadn't checked in 2 days and there were replies to I think 3 or 4 threads involving the tail less whips besides the one I started.  I gotta read em' all you know.


No, you're right. Actually I just reread it and it is clear that you were joking. I don't know what my problem was. I guess I'm just used to other social media where the worst in people seems to come out quicker and stronger than anything else. Obviously I was the one being overly defensive, not you. I'm sorry. Good luck with the baby amblys. The difference in size between the communal and solitary broods is interesting.


----------



## MWAInverts (Mar 6, 2016)

Ah, us invert people love each other too much. It sickens me LOL. But it's why I refuse to go elsewhere than arachnoboards,  I do believe this is the only place I've never experienced fighting...it's truly nice.


----------



## Hisserdude (Mar 6, 2016)

MWAInverts said:


> Ah, us invert people love each other too much. It sickens me LOL. But it's why I refuse to go elsewhere than arachnoboards,  I do believe this is the only place I've never experienced fighting...it's truly nice.


Have you even seen the Tarantula section lmao!  Lots of fighting over there, I steer clear of that section.


----------



## MWAInverts (Mar 6, 2016)

Haha maybe that's why. I don't own any T's

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Hisserdude (Mar 6, 2016)

MWAInverts said:


> Haha maybe that's why. I don't own any T's


Yeah, it can be a bloodbath over there. I like the subforums here, the people are nice, just like the Allpet roaches forum and it's sister forums, and Tarantula forum.


----------

