# Larger snakes



## Valael (Sep 26, 2003)

What do you guys feed them?


I was talking to the petstore guys earlier and they said they prefer to feed their larger snakes (full grown columbian redtails) large rats instead of going up to the next level to rabbits.


But some of their advice in the past has been..well....not so good.


What do you guys feed your snakes?


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## sinsect (Sep 26, 2003)

I've kept my fair share of large herps over the years, and I typically move up to rabbits (and beyond) once the snake hits 8 or 9 feet.  I have heard of people just offering multiple rats instead of larger prey, but this can get expensive and time-consuming, and is (IMHO) more trouble than it's worth.
A Colombian Redtail *should* do OK on rats forever.  It's the larger ones like Burmese, Retics, African Rocks, etc (the 20+ footers) that really need that extra "step".  I try to stick to rabbits, personally, but I have fed ducks & weanling goats to my big girls.
HTH


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## Lasiodora (Sep 26, 2003)

What sinsect said is true but for some really large retics or rock pythons even rabbits won't do. You may have to graduate to small pigs.
Mike


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## sinsect (Sep 26, 2003)

I've never tried pigs--they aren't really available where I am.  But my biggest Retics seem to prefer small goats anyway.  And it keeps them full for well over a month, whereas smaller prey like rabbits would need to be fed 2-3 times per month in order for them to get the same nutritional value.  Where do you get your pigs, Lasiodora?  And how often do you feed?  Seems like something my girls would enjoy 

Back to the original subject though, with my bigger snakes, the chain goes something like this:
mice > rats > jumbo rats > guinea pigs > small rabbits > large rabbits > ducks > weanling goats

HTH


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## Bry (Sep 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by sinsect _
> *I've kept my fair share of large herps over the years, and I typically move up to rabbits (and beyond) once the snake hits 8 or 9 feet.  I have heard of people just offering multiple rats instead of larger prey, but this can get expensive and time-consuming, and is (IMHO) more trouble than it's worth.*


Are you sure you don't mean 8-9' boids? An 8-9' colubrid would have significant trouble swallowing a rabbit. 

I agree, feeding multiple prey items is time-consuming and expensive. Also, feeding one prey item at a time is better for the snake. It's easier for them to digest one at a time, rather than multiple prey items, especially when they're somewhat large, but not large enough to create a visible bulge in the snake's body.

Bry


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## Phillip (Sep 27, 2003)

Actually there is a cool pic on the Kingsnake forums of a large black rat downing a full size rabbit as well as a large crow.  

Phil


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## Phillip (Sep 27, 2003)

Here are the pics.  Thought they would be enjoyed.

Phil

http://www.snakesandfrogs.com/scra/snakes/images/blackrat30.jpg

http://www.snakesandfrogs.com/scra/snakes/images/mossrat2.jpg


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## sinsect (Sep 27, 2003)

...yeah,I've also seen a few Gopher snakes that could easily down a small rabbit 

And Bry.....since when are boids not snakes....? 


Thanks for the pics, Phil.  awesome stuff


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## Lasiodora (Sep 27, 2003)

sinsect,
The pigs are bought from a pig farmer in upstate NY.  They are fed out every 3-4 weeks. The pigs are 30-40lbs depending on the snake's size.
Mike


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## Valael (Sep 27, 2003)

I need to just move to Iowa to live near my cousin.  She lives on a big farm and breeds all sorts of pigs..


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## Wade (Sep 27, 2003)

I feed my burms chickens. I get them free from a guy who raises them.

Wade


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## Valael (Sep 28, 2003)

So do most of you guys who have columbian boas (Or other 8 - 9 foot boas) just feed them large rats? or move up to gerbils?

or just give them rabbits?


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## Phillip (Sep 28, 2003)

It would take a mighty big gerbil to be moving up from a rat.  lol

Adult boas do fine on adult or jumbo rats.

Phil


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## sinsect (Sep 28, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Valael _
> *So do most of you guys who have columbian boas (Or other 8 - 9 foot boas) just feed them large rats? or move up to gerbils?
> 
> or just give them rabbits? *


Are you sure you don't mean Guinea Pigs?  I have fed Guineas to a few of my larger herps that were too big for rats, but still not showing intrest in rabbits.  Of course, a better substitute for this is to just get small rabbits, but unfortunately all the rabbits in my area are either large, extra large or frikkin' HUGE 

-sin


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## Bry (Sep 28, 2003)

> _Originally posted by sinsect _
> *And Bry.....since when are boids not snakes....? *


Heh, I simply wanted to clarify by splitting up the two groups of snakes. I didn't think an 8-9' colubrid stood a chance at swallowing a rabbit. Although I never doubted that some wouldn't try. 



> _Originally posted by Phillip_*Actually there is a cool pic on the Kingsnake forums of a large black rat downing a full size rabbit as well as a large crow. *


Well, I stand corrected. Allow me to eat my foot.

Bry


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## Valael (Sep 28, 2003)

Well, maybe I'll get lucky and my snake will stay a bit on the smaller side.  Rabbits and Guinea pigs aren't sold as feeders around here, just pets..  That might get costly


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## Phillip (Sep 28, 2003)

In fairness to Bry  The rat snake downing the rabbit is rare and i certainly wouldn't offer them such large food items on a regular basis as it can't be too good for them. But it is truly wild what they can get down when hungry.  

Phil


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## Bearacuda42 (Sep 28, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Valael _
> *Well, maybe I'll get lucky and my snake will stay a bit on the smaller side.  Rabbits and Guinea pigs aren't sold as feeders around here, just pets..  That might get costly  *


 Thats why i raise my own feeders, but since i live out in the agracultural area where its all farms and woods i can get pigs chickens and all kinds other feeders for very little money.. But using rabbits is alot better than a guinea pig any day... My big girl is up to eatting 1 rabbit between 8 to 12 pounds every 10 to 14 days, when outa rabbits shes eatting 3 colossal rats, also dog rats are good to as they are almost the size of a 4 pound rabbit... but i breed most my feeders so i hardly ever run out.......


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## Lasiodora (Sep 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Valael _
> *Well, maybe I'll get lucky and my snake will stay a bit on the smaller side.  Rabbits and Guinea pigs aren't sold as feeders around here, just pets..  That might get costly  *


It's a lot easier getting frozen feeders like jumbo rats (plus a lot cheaper). I'd go with frozen. You can buy in large quantities and store it.  
Mike


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## Psycho (Sep 29, 2003)

we have a probably 10' ish burm and just fed her a cornish hen.  I guess that would be on the cheaper side even yet.


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## Bry (Sep 29, 2003)

Valael, if size is an issue for you, you can always pick up a male boa, as they stay smaller than females.

Psycho, do my eyes decieve me, or do you keep your burm in a wire cage?

Bry


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## Psycho (Sep 29, 2003)

that plastic fencing stuff.... bottom is solid.  And it's really not spaced that far apart, just a close picture.  

~~~Psycho~~~


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## Psycho (Sep 29, 2003)

see...


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## Valael (Sep 29, 2003)

I actually have a Columbian redtail boa, it's not sexed, though.


I'm not totally clear on how to sex them.  From what I've read/seen, you basically insert some sort of rod into their vent (When I saw it done, they used a paper clip.)  and if it goes in farther, it's a male, not so far and it's female?


Only reason I don't try myself (Aside from laziness) is how can you tell if it's male or female without having a sexed snake of similiar size to compare?  (Atleast as an amature.)


It's only about 18 inches at the moment..


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## Phillip (Sep 29, 2003)

Spur size can offer a guess but is a bit tough to be sure on. 

Probing is the most sure way.     

And please if you see anyone else probe a snake with a paper clip   slap them. This is highly unsafe for the snake. Round tip probes made just for this are the safe way to go about it and have someone teach you how before attempting to do so.

Phil


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## Valael (Sep 29, 2003)

Yeah, that's another reason I didn't do it.  It just seemed too sharp to be using there.  Do you know of any around the house items I can use?  I really don't want to buy something specific for sexing if I only need it for one snake.


(Although, I have some major urge to buy some more...Male Yellow anaconda....but I really should finish college first.)


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## Lasiodora (Sep 29, 2003)

I wouldn't use any household items to probe any snake.  How would you feel if a doctor used a pen to probe your rectum instead of a proper sterile tool, because he wanted to save money.  You can harm your snake. Stainless steal snake probes should only be used. They are not expensive (six piece set is only like $20).  They should be used by someone who knows what there doing. You can seriously injure a snake if it is improperly probed. Find someone with the knowledge to teach you. You can also try manually everting the hemi-penis. This should also only be done by someone who is knowledgable.
Mike


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## Phillip (Sep 29, 2003)

What he said.  

Pretty much the only safe thing to use are snake probes and even then only when you know how as probing wrong can damage the snake reproductively as well as potentially killing it.

That said I still favor it over popping since it is more accurate ( sometimes males won't evert the hemi penes and females can fool you also ) as well as being more of a safe method when done correctly.  The paper clip thing for lack of a better way of putting it is similar to jabbing a rough edged object up your pee hole. Not a pleasant thought in my book. When you are probing you are going inside the males sex organs and rough edges do not belong there for what should be obvious reasons.

Phil


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## Valael (Sep 29, 2003)

Well....Let's go with the 3rd easiest route then?


Isn't there something about females having thicker tails?


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## sinsect (Sep 30, 2003)

Tail size/length/thickness is not a very accurate sexing method, as you generally need a like-sized member of the opposite sex for comparison (and even then, it's not highly accurate).  
One fairly decent way of sexing a snake is by maximum adult size (but I'm sure you don't want to wait that long).  Males are usually much smaller than females.  In BCC's, males typically stay well under 8 feet, whereas females usually attain lengths between 9 and 11+ feet.
My advice would be to take your snake to a vet or other knowledgeable professional or hobbyist in your area and have them probe the snake for you--most vets or experienced keepers have a good probe kit, so this negates your need to buy your own set for the time being.  It'll also help you gain a little experience so you can do it yourself someday


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## Psycho (Sep 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Valael _
> *(Although, I have some major urge to buy some more...Male Yellow anaconda....but I really should finish college first.) *



What are you gonna feed the thing if you cant get even rabbits or guinea pigs as feeders?  Wouldn't it be even harder to find larger things for it to eat then?


~~~Psycho~~~


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## Valael (Sep 30, 2003)

I can get them, they're just not meant to be feeders, so they're a bit more expensive.


But like I said, I'm trying to wait until I'm done with college...which would also mean I'll probably be living else where...and hopefully they'll have those more available.


But from everything I've read, male yellow anacondas get only in the 8ish foot range -- Why would I need something bigger for an anaconda than I would for a red tail that also stays in that range?


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## Psycho (Sep 30, 2003)

Val I see your point now that I did some reading up...actually pretty cool snake. Do you know how much you would pay for one? and a cage like I have for my Burm would be perfect for an adult thats so awesome....


~~~Psycho~~~


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## Valael (Sep 30, 2003)

From what I've read, $150 is about the max you should pay (I don't know what *size* snake that is.  It could just be the price of an expensive store with hatchlings.) 

The petstore here has 3.5 - 4 foot yellows for $175, but his prices have been climbing since the day he opened.

He used to charge $100 for a full grown beardie, now he charges $180



After searching through the classified section over on Kingsnake.com (They're under Boa), I've found yellows from $70 (babies) to $350 (Adult breeders)


I also found green anacondas (The bigger ones) for $159 on LLLReptile.com


Edit:  If you get a chance, could you post a picture of your burmese cage?  I'm just curious for the sake of being curious.  I really want to get into the bigger snakes later on in life   Curious how big your setup is.


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## Psycho (Sep 30, 2003)

if you look in this thread I posted a picture of the cage but if you wanted a different pic here it is...Its kinda dark but it gives you an idea


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## Psycho (Sep 30, 2003)

the cage is 8 foot by 4 foot by 6 foot...its a massive cage and believe me gettin it in my place was a challenge...


~~~Psycho~~~


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## wayneo (Sep 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Psycho _
> *believe me gettin it in my place was a challenge...
> 
> 
> ~~~Psycho~~~ *


Amen to that, what was like an hour to an hour and  to get it up those steps? 

Wayne H


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## Psycho (Sep 30, 2003)

Hey wayne... we got an even bigger cage now... wanna help me get it up here? j/k ;P  

Yeah that was a "shoulda taken that appart" type thing oops 


~~~Psycho~~~


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## Bry (Oct 1, 2003)

Valael, not necessarily. The difference in the tails seems to be more prominent in colubrids than boids. Male colubrids generally have a thicker tailbase, and the tail tapers gradually towards the tip. OTOH, females tails taper quickly from the vent and have a more blunt tip. It seems to be a pretty reliable method with herpers who are more familiar with this method. Although it's not as dead on as probing, it works pretty well. A guy I knew in Georgia who had been using this method for 25-30 years was stumped with my corn snake. He asked me if she were a male,  since she has a thick tailbase, and she's about the size of most adult males. However, she probed female. Then again, I guess I have a bull dyke corn snake.

Bry


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## Bry (Oct 1, 2003)

Psycho, I guess it was the first picture that made it look like wire caging. A guy showed me a picture of a boa he rescued a few months ago. The boa in its old cage was kept in a cage that was constructed with 2x4's and chicken wire. Even the ground floor was wire, and had no substrate at all. So, when I saw your picture, I was reminded of that picture and got concerned. One question, due to the higher humidity requirements for Burms and boas, how do you keep humidity up with all that ventilation?

Also, are you sure about the cage dimensions? The cage does look 8' wide, but the sides look squarish. Perhaps it's just the angle of the pic that makes it look that way.

Bry


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## Psycho (Oct 1, 2003)

Yeah it might be more like 8' by 4 1/2' by 5 1/2'  it's a bit longer than high. I didn't build it... just estimated the measurements. And as for humidity the boa is above the burm. You can kinda see it up there and I have him in a glass enclosure and I actually have bubble wrap over most of the top too just enough to let the heat get in.  Haven't really had problems with the humidity on the burm either.  He bathes when he feels he needs it and also his last shed came off really great.  Only thing I might do is put a couple more rocks in there for him to shed on.  We brought him out and he shedded on our living room carpet lol.  He came out and started rubbing his nose on the carpet so we just left him out there til he finished his business... and except for pooping massivly on the carpet (didnt' know how big snake poo actually was. Looked like a rottweiler came up and pooed on the carpet) everything went good.  Some of his scarring cleared up too.  He's still got a long scratch on his side probably from the previous owner keeping him on that wood chip crap.

~~~Psycho~~~


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## Valael (Oct 5, 2003)

I'm almost ashamed to admit it:  Not that I regret buying it, I just feel like I look like a big impulse buyer.


But I ended up trading my Columbian Redtail for a male yellow anaconda at the local petstore.

A bit on the aggressive side when I got it (Two days ago) but it's already taming down.  It sat coiled around my neck for 2 1/2 hours today.  Probably another 15 minutes just crawling aroudn on my lap.



It's between 4 and 5 feet.  Incredible snake.  Will post a picture a little later.


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## Swifty (Oct 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Wade _
> *I feed my burms chickens. I get them free from a guy who raises them.
> 
> Wade *


A couple large rabbits every 10 days or so for large constrictors over 15', is what I usually feed, but will feed large roosters from time to time. Here is a pic of my 16' female retic discovering an intruder in her walk in....


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## Psycho (Oct 5, 2003)

see this is why Swifty is my hero, He holds the biggest "Mellons" that anyone could have. Hay do you own just about every type of dangerous animal known to man? I look up to you swift and maybe one day Ill get the "Mellons" to own somethings that you do, but I dont see that ever happening 


~~~Psycho~~~


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## Swifty (Oct 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Swifty _
> *A couple large rabbits every 10 days or so for large constrictors over 15', is what I usually feed, but will feed large roosters from time to time. Here is a pic of my 16' female retic discovering an intruder in her walk in.... *


Whoops, ok, now here are the pics...


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## Swifty (Oct 5, 2003)

going down shot...


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## Psycho (Oct 5, 2003)

thats crazy...I tried to feed my Burm a cornish game hen and he couldnt take it because it was too big....nice pics swift


~~~Psycho~~~


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## wayneo (Oct 5, 2003)

We now have the answer to the age old question of "Why did the chicken cross the road?" I guess it was to get away from the snake.  

Wayne H


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## Valael (Oct 6, 2003)

I absolutely despise this pic because..well..yeah, maybe obvious reasons.



He sat there FOREVER.  Well over two hours.  Kind of half used him as a pillow later on ;P


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## Lasiodora (Oct 6, 2003)

Did you get it sexed?


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## Valael (Oct 6, 2003)

Yeah, it's a male.


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