# Best tarantula species



## PanzoN88 (Sep 28, 2014)

I know there are differing opinions about which species is the best to own, so which tarantula species
out there should every AB member or potential AB member add to their collection?


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## Akai (Sep 28, 2014)

what do you currently own?


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## LythSalicaria (Sep 28, 2014)

I don't think there is such a thing as a "best tarantula to own"...each hobbyist is going to tell you something different based on personal preference, or otherwise they're going to quiz -you- about what you want from your Ts and use that as a guideline to make suggestions. You know that old expression, "One man's junk is another man's treasure?" It applies to way more than just material items.

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## gobey (Sep 28, 2014)

This should be a good one. You're bound to get a TON of different answers. None the same. Most will tell you there is no answer I'll bet.

I haven't had any of mine long enough to answer. I'll say this though. Much as I enjoy my porteri, I wish I had gotten a different starter terrestrial. One with more color. Or even a different Grammastola. A pulchripes would've been cooler. But my grumpy grey T is MY grumpy grey T lol.

And my Avic avic. I had no real interest in them either at first. I bought mine because it was cheap and because it was the only variety at LPS you could find that wasn't a porteri. Now idk if I'm going to ever get another Avic. The metallica does interest me. And the goliath pinktoe too is cool. But I'll tell ya these guys are MESSY. Lots of dirt, web, and poo to clean.

But this little green blue T with pink feet is absolutely my most mellow T and one of my 2 most amusing Ts. He's an absolute charm to own and grew on me after a couple of months. Plus he got me used to Ts randomly deciding to leave the enclosure and jump and all that fun stuff. And it's training wheels for arboreal setups. You should probably own one Avicularia species as a tarantula keeper. 

My other favorite is my suspect nale Lasiodora parahybana. He's just really funny. Mad dash for food, and then a quick retreat to the burrow for fear that he's next on the menu. He also leaves his abdomen sticking out of his burrow without realizing he's not hidden all the way.

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## HungryGhost (Sep 28, 2014)

There is no best tarantula. But I think one that has a place in every collection is the GBB. Hardy, beautiful, great eater, medium fast growth rate, and a heavy webber.

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## Arachnomaniac19 (Sep 28, 2014)

It's subjective. I think that Brachypelma albiceps is the best beginner T. It's has colour, is docile, and pretty cheap.


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## VenomousMe (Sep 28, 2014)

I'm going to say the OBT. Everyone should have one. Especially beginners.


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## BobGrill (Sep 28, 2014)

Troll alert.


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## fuzzyavics72 (Sep 28, 2014)

Avicularia versicolor's are the best tarantula in the world. Some characteristics are  great webbers, colorful, docile, active, and has an amazing feeding response!!!! If you don't have at least one in your collection, you shouldn't call yourself a hobbyists!


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## Arachnomaniac19 (Sep 28, 2014)

fuzzyavics72 said:


> Avicularia versicolor's are the best tarantula in the world. Some characteristics are  great webbers, colorful, docile, active, and has an amazing feeding response!!!! If you don't have at least one in your collection, you shouldn't call yourself a hobbyists!


Darn it! I guess I'm not an actual hobbyist until the fourth!


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## VenomousMe (Sep 28, 2014)

No, no trolling here. I just don't believe in your magic stepping stones to those mean old poecis and obts.



BobGrill said:


> Troll alert.

Reactions: Wow 1


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## BobGrill (Sep 28, 2014)

You can recommend that as much as you want. Just know that I'll fight you on this as often as I can.

Also how the hell does being cautious and taking things slow equal "magic stepping stones" ?


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## VenomousMe (Sep 28, 2014)

Well that's your right, but it surely doesn't make you right. By labeling these T's as "not for beginners" you are doing beginners a disservice. They're tarantulas, we're humans.  



BobGrill said:


> You can recommend that as much as you want. Just know that I'll fight you on this as often as I can.


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## BobGrill (Sep 28, 2014)

You're doing them an even bigger disservice by recommending those species to beginners.

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## cold blood (Sep 28, 2014)

This thread has nothing to do with beginner species or stepping stones, its purely a subjective question as to what individuals like best.

I think at some point everyone that's into the hobby should own at least one Pamphobeteus sp.

I'd be hard pressed to argue against the versicolor though.

There's vast number of answers though, and all would be worth a look.

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## VenomousMe (Sep 28, 2014)

Nothing wrong with slow and cautious at all...if that's what you need to do then by all means, go for it. I'm just tired of hearing people try to convince others they need to do the same. Believe it or not Bob, there's no real difficulty in keeping ANY tarantula.  





BobGrill said:


> You can recommend that as much as you want. Just know that I'll fight you on this as often as I can.
> 
> Also how the hell does being cautious and taking things slow equal "magic stepping stones" ?


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## gobey (Sep 28, 2014)

fuzzyavics72 said:


> Avicularia versicolor's are the best tarantula in the world. Some characteristics are  great webbers, colorful, docile, active, and has an amazing feeding response!!!! If you don't have at least one in your collection, you shouldn't call yourself a hobbyists!


I think they're funny looking. I don't like the color contrast. The slings look way cooler. I wish they stayed that color.


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## BobGrill (Sep 28, 2014)

VenomousMe said:


> Nothing wrong with slow and cautious at all...if that's what you need to do then by all means, go for it. I'm just tired of hearing people try to convince others they need to do the same. Believe it or not Bob, there's no real difficulty in keeping ANY tarantula.


I never said they were difficult to care for did I ? The majority of people aren't prepared for the speed of an OBT.


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## Akai (Sep 28, 2014)

cold blood said:


> I think at some point everyone that's into the hobby should own at least one Pamphobeteus sp.


  totally agree.   especially the larger end of the genus like an Antinous or Nigricolor.  the males in this genus are stunning and if you are looking for a big NW terrestial, these can rival Theraposa in size and appetite but way easier husbandry.


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## VenomousMe (Sep 28, 2014)

Well then, I imagine they'll learn very quickly  I'm not saying people should go in blind, with no research and not knowing things like that. I'm saying with very little research and reading it's conceivable that an intelligent person can go buy an OBT as their first T and have no mishaps, no questions, no problems at all ever with that spider. You don't have to own a brachypelma, then a A. Geniculata, then a serial killer before you're ready for an obt..



BobGrill said:


> I never said they were difficult to care for did I ? The majority of people aren't prepared for the speed of an OBT.

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## BobGrill (Sep 28, 2014)

I certainly would advise against that. The last thing we need is someone being hospitalized as the result of a bite and then this species being banned from the pet trade in the end. Doing research is not at all like experiencing the real thing, I hate to break it to you.

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## VenomousMe (Sep 28, 2014)

True enough, it's not the same thing. Tell me Bob have you read bite reports on OBT's? How many did you find? I'll accept newspaper accounts as well. Just ballpark it. This is leading to a point.




BobGrill said:


> I certainly would advise against that. The last thing we need is someone being hospitalized as the result of a bite and then this species being banned from the pet trade in the end. Doing research is not at all like experiencing the real thing, I hate to break it to you.


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## BobGrill (Sep 28, 2014)

I've read enough bite reports on this forum to know. Go see for yourself.


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## fuzzyavics72 (Sep 28, 2014)

I've been bit by a second instar and my heart was pumping way too fast. Just like if someone gave me a shot of adrenalin. I've never had issues with pokies though. My firs t was a pokie, but most people lack intelligence, so most people shouldn't start with ows. If you do use your brain and do your research you will be fine!

My older cousin in the 90's use to hold his obt on a daily basis. He was bit numerous times a day and nothing happened to him. I laughed when I heard that story.

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## VenomousMe (Sep 28, 2014)

I have seen. There's not very many are there? On OBT's? Considering the amount of people who own them...and that's just here, on AB, not in the news or the papers. I searched many different sources and OBT's were not mentioned much. I've seen more poeci's named in newspaper articles then any other tarantula. I don't see anyone trying to ban their import, make them illegal to possess, any of that..so I'm not sure what you mean.




BobGrill said:


> I've read enough bite reports on this forum to know. Go see for yourself.


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## fuzzyavics72 (Sep 28, 2014)

I know a ton of people who have been bit by obts, way more than any pokie species.  Most people don't write about their bites and why the hell would we want to bring anymore attention to the media! Your logical doesn't make any sense!!!!!

Also to import pokies you need a special permit because they're endangered! !!


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## VenomousMe (Sep 28, 2014)

Look, bottom line...I like OBT's, they will probably be my favorite. They have a certain unique "character" you don't see in many other genera. This is the kind of T that will hook people, make them love this hobby. Unless they're all warned away by paranoia. Promote education and caution by all means Bob but warning people away from ANY genus is not helpful to anyone.




BobGrill said:


> I've read enough bite reports on this forum to know. Go see for yourself.


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## BobGrill (Sep 28, 2014)

Bottom line is you're promoting ignorance. Your logic makes absolutely no sense.

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## VenomousMe (Sep 28, 2014)

"I certainly would advise against that. The last thing we need is someone being hospitalized as the result of a bite and then this species being banned from the pet trade in the end. Doing research is not at all like experiencing the real thing, I hate to break it to you."~BobGrill,  arachnocrusader



"There's not very many are there? On OBT's? Considering the amount of people who own them...and that's just here, on AB, not in the news or the papers. I searched many different sources and OBT's were not mentioned much. I've seen more poeci's named in newspaper articles then any other tarantula. I don't see anyone trying to ban their import, make them illegal to possess, any of that..so I'm not sure what you mean."~me


What part of my logic is in question Bob? I see lots of poeci bite newspaper articles in my wanderings. Yet I'm about to buy a Poeci..they're not banned or anything...strange.


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## BobGrill (Sep 28, 2014)

You keep suggesting them to beginners and they eventually may be.

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## Akai (Sep 28, 2014)

VenomousMe you seem to be a clever guy.  You seem to be sincere in your pursuit in this hobby and I suspect you will be in the hobby a long time because you seem to do plenty of research as well you should.  Do you think the average newbie puts as much effort as you when getting into this hobby?  You're kidding yourself if you think they do.  You can find hundreds of videos of people holding King Baboons, Haplopelmas, Pokies and YES even OBTs.   Is that responsible?  Does that sound like someone who has done some research?   Don't you think some newbie that sees that video (and YES I agree OBTs are beautiful) will see that and go "It's orange and it's beautiful and look at how docile it is?  I want to hold one too!"  The fact of the matter is there are 1,000s of people who buy tarantulas because they saw some video on YouTube of a T. Blondi killing a mouse or an adult female H. Lividum because it's beautiful and blue yet they have it on 3 inches of substrate.  I don't have to provide you the links since you are so good at researching.  the evidence is out there.  it's on AB as well with hundreds of newbie threads like "I bought an adult T. Stirmi, how do I take care of it?"  or "I bought my Cobalt Blue a week ago and it's dying what did I do wrong?"  and this is their *first* post and the 11th hour of this tarantulas life.  I *WISH* people did research as much as you but the reality is that you are a newbie minority.  If you're telling someone it's OK to get an OBT as their first tarantula then you are promoting irresponsibility.  Not everyone is as passionate as you when entering the hobby.  A lot of people want instant gratification and that may come in the form of the biggest, baddest tarantula out there.  There is a reason you don't find OBTs at Petsmart my friend.   Your argument is that there aren't enough OBT bite reports so they can't be that bad?  SERIOUSLY?  Isn't that like "If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?"  Come on man, just because there is a lack of bite reports it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.   You really are reaching on that remark.   

Everyone here on AB knows your stance on OWs and it's duly noted.  just because your OBT is chill doesn't mean the next one is.  Behavior varies from tarantula to tarantula just like intelligence (or lack of) from person to person.

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## Poec54 (Sep 28, 2014)

VenomousMe said:


> Believe it or not Bob, there's no real difficulty in keeping ANY tarantula.


'No difficulty in keeping any tarantula.'  Excellent!  You of course, speak from experience.  I guess we really don't need a forum after all.  You can start a website and we can defer all questions to you instead: the Man Who Knows All.  To think of all the time we've wasted fumbling thru on our own with hundreds of different species.  This is one of those 'I could have had a V8' moments.  I feel like a veil has been lifted from my eyes.      

I'm so glad you decided to stick around and annoy experienced people with lame arguments and bad advice.  We certainly haven't seen any know-it-all beginners burst in here with a lot of commotion, argue with us, then get in over their heads with species beyond their skill/experience level.  No siree.  Well, actually it happens every few months.  I guess you were next in line.  And there's always another volunteer waiting on deck in the batter's box.  Human nature.

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## gobey (Sep 28, 2014)

I've been pretty head first into this. But I would've been really screwed if I bought a $20 OBT as my first T instead of my $20 Rose hair. Because my research beforehand was minimal. She was sold to me at a convention where I decided due to price for a 5" tarantula plus enclosure and water dish at $20 was a steal. My read of Stan Schultz care page let me know ut would be a low maintenance pet easy to care for. Which maybe an OBT care sheet could say.

But if this guy had OBTs, and trust me he wanted to sell tarantulas to impulsive people like me, he'd still have convinced me to buy it. And I'd have been woefully under prepared for the animal.

Now 4 months later, many tarantulas later, 5 species later, and under a friends supervision outside my house. I began getting practice workibg with a MM OBT who was a pet hole, but very irritable. After getting comfortable I rehoused him. Unpacked and housed a mate for him. And now have my own. But as a first. I'd have pooped myself. 

If you're a more responsible man than me who really decided beforehand to finally get a tarantula and researchers the hell out of OBTs then ok I guess. I hope your smart and have reflexes and calm nerves. I on the other hand needed to see one again in front of me for so cheap to finally pursue my teenage dream of a pet tarantula. Now I'm in deep. At least I'm used to dangerous wild animals. But even then these are different. They're so small.

Anyways my .02.

I may be a newer guy in the thick of it. But I'm always discussing and learning. And whether I take the older guys advice or not is one thing. But I'm not gonna argue with them. I have no advice to give when I have virtual no experience and they have tons. I only have knowledge gained by books and research here. Knowledge gained from my Ts. My experiences. And my mistakes so far. Long road ahead. So I'm trying to be careful what I'd tell a newbie.

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## laurenkane (Sep 28, 2014)

I personally enjoy slow-moving and docile species that I can occasionally handle and/or touch. My g. pulchra, curly hairs, and b. vagans are my favorites for this reason.

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## gobey (Sep 28, 2014)

laurenkane said:


> I personally enjoy slow-moving and docile species that I can occasionally handle and/or touch. My g. pulchra, curly hairs, and b. vagans are my favorites for this reason.


I feel like I got cheated out of that lol. My porteri was sold to me and promosed to be such a calm gentle docile animal that would behave like that. I could maybe show her to friends and show them spiders aren't so scary. But she's an absolute horror. She'll bite first ask questions later. I've seen her kick hairs too. 

So this was why I got curly hair slings. Now I have 4 lol. I also bought for a similar reason a Euathlus parvulusm (chilean gold burst) because it was so beautiful and incredibly docile. To the point of being curious even. Which is a fun and exciting change of pace from my others. It's a tiny little T. Happened to be a MM sadly but I managed to lend him out to breed. 

My Avic is pretty mellow. But clearly hates being handled.

Here's for my B. emilia one day!


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## BobGrill (Sep 28, 2014)

My favorite genus is Avicularia. I love their fuzzy appearance and the way they walk. Ephebopus is another favorite. They're anatomically unique tarantulas in my opinion.


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## Tgrip77 (Sep 29, 2014)

OBT gets my vote as well and i pretty much agree with everything venomousme had to say about it.  @ poec54
Brazilian salmon pinks would probably be my next vote for "must have" T for every hobbist to enjoy


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## gobey (Sep 29, 2014)

Tgrip77 said:


> OBT gets my vote as well and i pretty much agree with everything venomousme had to say about it.  @ poec54
> Brazilian salmon pinks would probably be my next vote for "must have" T for every hobbist to enjoy


What do you like about the L.p.s? I have two. One 5". One 4". Sac mates. The bigger one is a funny spider. The second one like to hide a lot. Burying itself inside it's half log. It's out more now aftee it molted. But still way more skittish than the big ones. They're still both kind of scardy cats. I've had them 3 months.


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## miss moxie (Sep 29, 2014)

VenomousMe said:


> Look, bottom line...I like OBT's, they will probably be my favorite. They have a certain unique "character" you don't see in many other genera. This is the kind of T that will hook people, make them love this hobby. Unless they're all warned away by paranoia. Promote education and caution by all means Bob but warning people away from ANY genus is not helpful to anyone.


You know what? This is absolutely right. I never thought about it this way, but gosh is this an eye opener. In fact, using this same logic, I should be able to read a few books on skiing and then go down a double black diamond slope right? All I need to know is education and caution. I'll wear the proper safety gear, read the books, and then I'll skip the bunny hill for the double death side winder at my local ski resort.

:sarcasm:

It is my understanding that beginners are warned away from volatile tarantulas because they don't have the skills. Beginners are more likely to flinch, fling, or drop if a cyclone of a tarantula comes at them full force. Working up in speed and temperament acclimates you slowly, helps you build reflexes. 

It has nothing to do with husbandry being anymore complicated-- granted, there are always exceptions.

I have literally *never* seen anyone on this forum tell someone to never get an OBT, never get a pokie- hell, stay away from OWs altogether. What I *have* seen are a lot of more talented keepers warning beginners to build their skill-set and experience level before pursuing those tarantulas. I've seen advanced keepers recommend a mid-level tarantula first. And I disagree. I think warning people of trickier genuses or species is very helpful. What I don't find helpful, is someone suggesting that reading is all you need to be prepared for potent Ts.

I bet you think someone new to the snake hobby could very easily keep a black mamba too. You know, as long as they read a book.

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## johnny quango (Sep 29, 2014)

I think at some point everyone that's into the hobby should own at least one Pamphobeteus sp.

I have to agree cold I recently added a Pamphobeteus sp mascara sling to my collection as I wanted something almost lp size but not an lp but not a t blondi either as they require a lot more care and they are expensive to boot, it so far as gone down as a fantastic decision just the right amount of atitude, great feeder and fast growing. But I could argue that every collection needs a G pulchra big,beautiful,calm and a good feeder the only downside in my opinion is they can be a touch expensive.

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## Poec54 (Sep 29, 2014)

VenomousMe said:


> I'm saying with very little research and reading it's conceivable that an intelligent person can go buy an OBT as their first T and have no mishaps



True, and some do.  But the average person buying a T is inspired by pics/videos of people holding them, and wants a pretty one for themselves to hold.  They are usually not looking for the 'orange fury' that an OBT can be.  That's why OW's have only started to catch on in the last 10 years.  Prior to that, people who liked (and even preferred) OW's were looked down on in the hobby.  The fast dashes and short tempers were a turn-off for most experienced tarantula collectors, and why there were only a handful of OW species commonly available until recently.  Other than Poecs, OW's were cheap, $5 or $10 for adults.  They had to price them like that to get anyone to buy them.  If experienced tarantula collectors took decades to warm up to OW's, it really doesn't make a lot of sense to recommend them beginners.  

Some beginners will get them anyways, with or without research, and we can only hope that there's no escapes or bites, especially for the people they live with, which is something that always seems to be overlooked in the rush to dive in the deep end: are the people you live with okay with having an OBT loose in the house?  Tiptoeing thru the house for weeks, checking every place you sit or lie down, looking in your shoes before you put them on?  Lots of fun.  What about kids in the house, yours or friends of theirs?  All the online research in the world doesn't prepare you for the actual experience of a large, hairy spider running across the floor, up the wall, or up your arm, especially if it's in a bad mood.  Beginners tend to panic; they have little, if any, hands-on experience to fall back on.  And that's one way things get loose.  Then everyone in the house is involved, like it or not.  Is it really fair to them?  Or is this all about 'Me, me, me'?  If you live alone and don't have people over, then you're the only one that has to deal with it.  Fine.  But that's not the average house or apartment.  Are you making the decision for other people too?

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## Ghost Dragon (Sep 29, 2014)

If I had to choose one, I'd have to say G. pulchra.  IMO, no collection is complete without one.  Large, hardy, docile, very active, and a really good eater.  Love their velvety black appearance as they get older.  They are a fair bit more expensive that other slings, but they are worth every penny.

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## Enn49 (Sep 29, 2014)

I don't have a lot of experience but my first T was a juvi OBT, I knew what I was letting myself in for and in the last 5 months I've only seen a tiny hint of orange in the doorway of her cave so she's definitely not a favourite.

I adore my little P. metallica a real character and always in view. My other favourites are the L. parahybanas, always around and busy digging, then there are the H. incei trio, all different and great webbers but I think my new O. diamantinensis is going to compete for the favourite title as after only a week its been busy webbing, always in view but quick.

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## Monkeyock (Sep 29, 2014)

PanzoN88 said:


> I know there are differing opinions about which species is the best to own, so which tarantula species
> out there should every AB member or potential AB member add to their collection?


I will cast my vote for the (already mentioned) GBB. C.cyaneopubescens is the obvious choice in my book for care requirements (easy, dry terrestrial/fossorial), ease/cost of acquisition (low to moderate for slings with ready availability in the US), temperament/bite risk (moderate, sometimes considered a "stepping-stone" species between docile NW terrestrials and more skittish/defensive OW terrestrials or NW arboreals), hair-flicking properties (quick to flick but with mild results IME, your results may vary), their stunning physical beauty, their reputation as strong webbers (which enhances their visibility presence even when they are hiding IMO, versus an empty-looking terrarium or pet hole scenario), feeding response (strong) and regular visibility.

I believe it would find favor in anyone's collection.

---------- Post added 09-29-2014 at 09:45 AM ----------

Also a general response to the controversy that has arisen here, I would like to make a somewhat oblique comparison to the keeping of snakes, in that inexperienced and/or irresponsible snake buyers and/or sellers have caused a scenario where snake keepers are fighting for their rights all over the country even at the federal level, and all it would take would be the one, right person to be bitten and hospitalized by a tarantula with strong venom such as an OBT or a Poecilotheria for the entire hobby to suddenly become the target of the same kind of crusade that has made boa constrictors and large pythons difficult to buy and own in many places all over the country. Do you want the same thing for tarantula owners? Would you like to suddenly be in the wrong side of the law and have to decide between compliance by selling or giving away your collection or living in fear of enforcement? Better to keep the more difficult and more dangerous species out of beginners hands IMO, or we end up with bans on many of the species we love, including OBTs, of which I have two, and am happy that I do. Dealers need to practice restraint as well when selling or including freebies, to keep difficult species in the hands of experienced keeper who are prepared to deal with them correctly. If I were a show organizer I would require that a fully grown example, or a model of a fully grown example of each animal for sale be present at every table, so that all the kids looking at cute little sulcata tortoises and beautiful little two-foot retics would have to show their parents the 200lb adult tortoise or the 20 foot adult retic to help them make an informed purchase. Same with nile monitors. Irresponsible dealers sell these things to people who have no idea what they are getting into all the time, and while it is incumbent on anyone buying an animal to research and be prepared, it should also be mentioned "btw you know this will be a seven foot lizard in a few years right?" During a sales pitch. "Btw you know these tarantulas have potent venom that will put you in the hospital, and a reputation that has given them the nickname "orange bitey thing" right?" That sort of selective amnesia, while being deadly for most of the animals involved, is also the quickest route to more bans, and more and more enforcement of existing legislation by the authorities. If we don't police ourselves, there are those out there who will happily do so for us.

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## jigalojey (Sep 29, 2014)

VenomousMe said:


> Believe it or not Bob, there's no real difficulty in keeping ANY tarantula.


 That I don't agree with, try telling that to my S.Plumpies that will only use loamy clay, how many  beginners do you know that can do a *good* mix of solid loamy clay? If you say more than zero you're a liar. I have been tagged by a 7 inch Aussie species while I was doing tank maintenance and it was the worst pain I have EVER been through, worse than when I dislocated my shoulder in Rugby. After 30 minutes I started to sweat all over like a wet towel, vomit and my arm cramped to the point where I couldn't move it for 14 hours even with hospital quality muscle relaxers, they pack a serious bite and I would not recommend these to beginners and this is coming from a guy who WAS chucked into the deep end since I'm from Australia. Don't be a hero and if you don't want a fat pet rock get a GBB or something, leave the potent old worlds to the experts.

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## scorpionchaos (Sep 29, 2014)

Wich ever one you like the best and can provide for!

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## Fyrwulf (Sep 29, 2014)

VenomousMe said:


> Well that's your right, but it surely doesn't make you right. By labeling these T's as "not for beginners" you are doing beginners a disservice. They're tarantulas, we're humans.


So, what, you're recommending that a beginner pick up a Pokey as their first tarantula? Have you never read a bite report for one of those guys? Because I have, and there are plenty of venomous snakes with less serious bites. Significantly less serious.

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## Oumriel (Sep 29, 2014)

gobey said:


> What do you like about the L.p.s? I have two. One 5". One 4". Sac mates. The bigger one is a funny spider. The second one like to hide a lot. Burying itself inside it's half log. It's out more now aftee it molted. But still way more skittish than the big ones. They're still both kind of scardy cats. I've had them 3 months.


My l.p. is one of my favourites, she just is funny. She will come out when I am watering or getting ready to feed. She likes to remodel all the time. And she is still dragging a Dr pepper cap around with her, which makes her pretty awesome in my book. My obt is another favourite, she is just Like that old lady that lives down the street that hoards cats and paper.  I have three poecis and tbh I find them a bit meh. Yeah they are pretty, but they just haven't really shown anything interesting personality wise. I am becoming very fond of avics though, I just like the fluffyness of them  I think you just end up finding a niche in the hobby of what you like and it doesn't have anything to do with experience level. Fortunately there are so many different species to choose from, a person will inevitably find what makes them happy.

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## Poec54 (Sep 29, 2014)

jigalojey said:


> I have been tagged by a 7 inch Aussie species while I was doing tank maintenance and it was the worst pain I have EVER been through, worse than when I dislocated my shoulder in Rugby. After 30 minutes I started to sweat all over like a wet towel, vomit and my arm cramped to the point where I couldn't move it for 14 hours even with hospital quality muscle relaxers, they pack a serious bite and I would not recommend these to beginners.


Thank you.  And yet we have people telling us 'any species' is fine for a first tarantula if you do some online research.  That takes the place of experience.  Great advice.

---------- Post added 09-29-2014 at 03:37 PM ----------




Tgrip77 said:


> OBT gets my vote as well and i pretty much agree with everything venomousme had to say about it.



And this parting advice from a guy selling off his stock, and not particularly concerned about the future of the hobby, as it didn't pay off like he hoped it would.  The rest of us would like to see private ownership of T's continue in the future, in spite of bans that have already started in some places.  It makes no difference to him if they're banned outright, he's bailing out and looking for the next income source.  The difference is that we're in it for the long haul, and *gasp* not totally motivated by money.

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## jigalojey (Sep 29, 2014)

Yeah look I love old worlds to death and you will never hear me bash them but you guys are spoilt rotten why would you want to just join the hobby and go straight to the asians/africans and aussies? Makes no damn sense to me, you guys have everything to pick from, get a big beautiful new world that you can spend time around without feeling like your treading on eggshells and working your way up, that's the beauty for you guys, you have everything to pick from get the damn old worlds later when new worlds wear off and you want something with more attitude. My first ever tarantula buy was years ago but I remember it well, it was an Australian dwarf species known as C.Tropix, I bought it because the bigger ones intimidated me and it wasn't some spur of the moment buy, I had been researching tarantulas and browsing forums for 3 years prior! I thought I could handle anything and that it was all going to be cake boy I was wrong.... The problems started right from the Chinese food container to the tank, this guy was lightening! Striking randomly while darting around the room being one step ahead every attempt I made to capture him and I finally caught him and didn't open the glass lid for 3 weeks because I was in total fear of this little dwarf, hilarious right? 3 weeks later I decided to open it for feeding but I couldn't find him, this being a 90-100% humidity tarantula (They literally burrow in tough wet mud in the wild) the glass was all fogged up so i couldn't see inside, I opened the lid and I couldn't find him, turns out he was on the corner of the tank when I opened the lid and he darted out and ran into my wardrobe, at this stage I was literally having a panic attack thinking I have lost my first tarantula and just wishing I never joined the hobby and how much I regret it. Searched the wardrobe for 30 minutes pulling sheets and shit out and couldn't find him, climbed into bed (Was 5 in the morning) but couldn't sleep because I was almost in tears so i went back through the wardrobe one last time and pulled out a pair of my pants and chucked them on the ground and there he was standing in threat posture like the little tough guy he was, managed to put him in the tank and literally didn't even want to know he existed for a month, anyway I gradually got cool with him and now a bunch of years later I laugh at how I was scared of a little dwarf old world while I can handle my big 7 inchers without a problem. You beginners want to know what it's like jumping in the deep end while thinking you have knowledge because you study a bunch? Means nothing when you're face to face with it, I just gave you a first hand account at what it feels like to be in way over your head, don't let it be you.

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## Poec54 (Sep 29, 2014)

jigalojey said:


> My first ever tarantula buy was years ago but I remember it well, it was an Australian dwarf species known as C.Tropix, I bought it because the bigger ones intimidated me and it wasn't some spur of the moment buy, I had been researching tarantulas and browsing forums for 3 years prior! I thought I could handle anything and that it was all going to be cake boy I was wrong.... The problems started right from the Chinese food container to the tank, this guy was lightening! Striking randomly while darting around the room being one step ahead every attempt I made to capture him and I finally caught him and didn't open the glass lid for 3 weeks because I was in total fear of this little dwarf, hilarious right? 3 weeks later I decided to open it for feeding but I couldn't find him, this being a 90-100% humidity tarantula (They literally burrow in tough wet mud in the wild) the glass was all fogged up so i couldn't see inside, I opened the lid and I couldn't find him, turns out he was on the corner of the tank when I opened the lid and he darted out and ran into my wardrobe, at this stage I was literally having a panic attack thinking I have lost my first tarantula and just wishing I new joined the hobby and how much I regret it. Searched the wardrobe for 30 minutes pulling sheets and shit out and couldn't find him, climbed into bed (Was 5 in the morning) but couldn't sleep because I was almost in tears so i went back through the wardrobe one last time and pulled out a pair of my pants and chucked them on the ground and there he was standing in threat posture like the little tough guy he was manage to put him in the tank



This is the kind of 'fun' that Tgrip77 and VenomousMe want all beginners to be able share in and enjoy!  How thoughtful of them.  Can you think of a better public relations campaign for the hobby?  Forget Brachypelma when you can have this kind of excitement.

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## jigalojey (Sep 29, 2014)

Oh great fun! Highly recommend it to beginners, don't forget to bring the kids! In all seriousness though I'm pretty happy I went back and managed to find him because their is a good chance I could have had a dead cat if I didn't.


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## Jasonbd77 (Sep 29, 2014)

I'm a newb, so I don't really know that it's appropriate for me to voice an opinion on this particular subject, but here goes-
I've owned three tarantulas.  Two G porteri and one A avic.  None were housed properly because my "research" was worthless. I found myself here because I have a renewed interest in the animals.  Do I feel that I could deal with an OBT?  Yes!  Will I "start" with an OBT?  No!  It's a lovely idea, sure...but there are too many staples to cut ones teeth on.  Considering the diversity that tarantulas offer in terms of appearance and behavior, G pulchra and GBB seem like far better "must have-species" than an OBT regardless of ones experience.

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## gobey (Sep 29, 2014)

Jasonbd77 said:


> I'm a newb, so I don't really know that it's appropriate for me to voice an opinion on this particular subject, but here goes-
> I've owned three tarantulas.  Two G porteri and one A avic.  None were housed properly because my "research" was worthless. I found myself here because I have a renewed interest in the animals.  Do I feel that I could deal with an OBT?  Yes!  Will I "start" with an OBT?  No!  It's a lovely idea, sure...but there are too many staples to cut ones teeth on.  Considering the diversity that tarantulas offer in terms of appearance and behavior, G pulchra and GBB seem like far better "must have-species" than an OBT regardless of ones experience.


You're heading in a good direction. Probably a more restrained path than my own. If you're content, stay with it that way. I just had to have have have. And it's so easy with how cheap some of these species are. That's the other dangerous part to newcomers. How easy it is to wind up with one of these animals and not know it's a hot one.

I used to think I'd never want an OBT at all. Or any OW. Now I have 8. :/ 
Now I'm NOT advocating getting 8 OW Tarantulas at my experience level. I'm just saying you'll know when you really want one. And since it's not now. Don't do it. I didn't like the OBT at all. I thought "who in their right mind would want such a horrible creature for a pet? Especially when there are so many 'nice' tarantulas?"

Well I soon learned my G. porteri is meaner than the OBT my friend had at his shop. And he let me start working with said OBT under his supervision to see that it's just an animal. And a really cool and pretty one at that. And that's how I got into my OW sling project and adopted 2 adult OBTs (although neither live with me yet)

Anyways..... I feel like I had special circumstances. Even if this is still not my greatest decision in getting 8 highly venomous tarantulas, I at keast have a supervisor / mentor (although he could stand to join this site), experience with wild animals, and I'm at least not some teenager. But only time will tell. I do at least at the end of the day have a fallback plan for the OW Ts with my friend. He'll happily take them for his own or his shop. But I'm confident these will be my extended spider family for some while.

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## Jasonbd77 (Sep 29, 2014)

OBTs are fascinating little machines for sure and I tend towards being overly cautious.  I grew up in the "sticks" of Alabama.  I turned logs over for fun when I was a preteen.  I'm sure I'd be fine with a demon in a box, but...I live with an arachnophobe and have been working on that problem.  Last thing I need is the arachnophobe trying to conquer fear with the one of those little guys!


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## gobey (Sep 29, 2014)

Jasonbd77 said:


> OBTs are fascinating little machines for sure and I tend towards being overly cautious.  I grew up in the "sticks" of Alabama.  I turned logs over for fun when I was a preteen.  I'm sure I'd be fine with a demon in a box, but...I live with an arachnophobe and have been working on that problem.  Last thing I need is the arachnophobe trying to conquer fear with the one of those little guys!


Ah ha! Yeah see that was one of the first things I said about the OBT. How can that T help show my friends that tarantulas aren't scary? "Hey here's my spider.... It hates me.... Oh look...... It hates you too."

However, my G. porteri will display the same effect. She may usually be showing a feeding response. But sometimes it's downright aggression. She's greeted me with threat posture before. And she'll come face to face with anything in her enclosure. No matter how big it is. She's ready to fight it and bite it. Even YOU.

That's why my Avic became my go to show others tarantula. Because I could stick my hand in the tank and show them he wouldn't do anything. Even then you can't handle him. He hates it. He'll jump or poo on you. Also not good for helping people like spiders lol.

Now I have a good one. A Euathlus parvulus. Little golden T about 2". Super docile. Very active, will be handled no problem. Doesn't bite or kick hairs (he kicked when i shipped him out for a breeding loan but that was extremely stressful on him by my inexperience coaxing a T into a shipping container).
It's too bad he's not long for this world.


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## VenomousMe (Sep 29, 2014)

My post about bite reports was about Bob's paranoia. I know OBT's bite people Akai. I've read the reports. Sounds painful. In some cases excruciatingly painful, lmao. But not life threatening. I meant what I said in all my posts. Fine, you want to advise caution to new keepers, that's great, really, but why not keep it at that? I think you all need to understand just how much you are turning people off to old world T's, many of which are some of the most interesting tarantulas in the hobby. Turning people away by telling them they aren't ready for one is wrong, period. You have no idea if they are or not. How about just advising caution? Maybe point them in the direction of...say..google. Tell them to research and think about the repercussions of making mistakes with these animals. Don't just bum rush them with several posts from several people all saying basically "NO, THAT'S A BAD IDEA! When all you know about the person is that they like poecis, or H. lividium, or whatever.. I really believe this attitude of caution puts off more of a fear vibe, and it transmits right to new keepers, stopping some of them from pursuing the things they want and would enjoy, making people forget that they're humans and can keep calm and outsmart an insect. It's doing more harm then good. But that's just my opinion, as you say. 





Akai said:


> VenomousMe you seem to be a clever guy.  You seem to be sincere in your pursuit in this hobby and I suspect you will be in the hobby a long time because you seem to do plenty of research as well you should.  Do you think the average newbie puts as much effort as you when getting into this hobby?  You're kidding yourself if you think they do.  You can find hundreds of videos of people holding King Baboons, Haplopelmas, Pokies and YES even OBTs.   Is that responsible?  Does that sound like someone who has done some research?   Don't you think some newbie that sees that video (and YES I agree OBTs are beautiful) will see that and go "It's orange and it's beautiful and look at how docile it is?  I want to hold one too!"  The fact of the matter is there are 1,000s of people who buy tarantulas because they saw some video on YouTube of a T. Blondi killing a mouse or an adult female H. Lividum because it's beautiful and blue yet they have it on 3 inches of substrate.  I don't have to provide you the links since you are so good at researching.  the evidence is out there.  it's on AB as well with hundreds of newbie threads like "I bought an adult T. Stirmi, how do I take care of it?"  or "I bought my Cobalt Blue a week ago and it's dying what did I do wrong?"  and this is their *first* post and the 11th hour of this tarantulas life.  I *WISH* people did research as much as you but the reality is that you are a newbie minority.  If you're telling someone it's OK to get an OBT as their first tarantula then you are promoting irresponsibility.  Not everyone is as passionate as you when entering the hobby.  A lot of people want instant gratification and that may come in the form of the biggest, baddest tarantula out there.  There is a reason you don't find OBTs at Petsmart my friend.   Your argument is that there aren't enough OBT bite reports so they can't be that bad?  SERIOUSLY?  Isn't that like "If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?"  Come on man, just because there is a lack of bite reports it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.   You really are reaching on that remark.
> 
> Everyone here on AB knows your stance on OWs and it's duly noted.  just because your OBT is chill doesn't mean the next one is.  Behavior varies from tarantula to tarantula just like intelligence (or lack of) from person to person.


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## Fyrwulf (Sep 29, 2014)

VenomousMe said:


> My post about bite reports was about Bob's paranoia. I know OBT's bite people Akai. I've read the reports. Sounds painful. In some cases excruciatingly painful, lmao. But not life threatening. I meant what I said in all my posts. Fine, you want to advise caution to new keepers, that's great, really, but why not keep it at that? I think you all need to understand just how much you are turning people off to old world T's, many of which are some of the most interesting tarantulas in the hobby. Turning people away by telling them they aren't ready for one is wrong, period. You have no idea if they are or not. How about just advising caution? Maybe point them in the direction of...say..google. Tell them to research and think about the repercussions of making mistakes with these animals. Don't just bum rush them with several posts from several people all saying basically "NO, THAT'S A BAD IDEA! When all you know about the person is that they like poecis, or H. lividium, or whatever.. I really believe this attitude of caution puts off more of a fear vibe, and it transmits right to new keepers, stopping some of them from pursuing the things they want and would enjoy, making people forget that they're humans and can keep calm and outsmart an insect. It's doing more harm then good. But that's just my opinion, as you say.


As a newb who hasn't yet acquired his first T, I'm going to chime in here. Nobody put me off Pokies. A very professional bite report did. I read it and I'm like, "Right... That's a nice, tall glass of NOPE."

Because, you know, having symptomatics that read like VX exposure really does it for me. Or not.

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## BobGrill (Sep 29, 2014)

VenomousMe said:


> My post about bite reports was about Bob's paranoia. I know OBT's bite people Akai. I've read the reports. Sounds painful. In some cases excruciatingly painful, lmao. But not life threatening. I meant what I said in all my posts. Fine, you want to advise caution to new keepers, that's great, really, but why not keep it at that? I think you all need to understand just how much you are turning people off to old world T's, many of which are some of the most interesting tarantulas in the hobby. Turning people away by telling them they aren't ready for one is wrong, period. You have no idea if they are or not. How about just advising caution? Maybe point them in the direction of...say..google. Tell them to research and think about the repercussions of making mistakes with these animals. Don't just bum rush them with several posts from several people all saying basically "NO, THAT'S A BAD IDEA! When all you know about the person is that they like poecis, or H. lividium, or whatever.. I really believe this attitude of caution puts off more of a fear vibe, and it transmits right to new keepers, stopping some of them from pursuing the things they want and would enjoy, making people forget that they're humans and can keep calm and outsmart an insect. It's doing more harm then good. But that's just my opinion, as you say.


Caution = Paranoia? Right... makes total sense.


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## VenomousMe (Sep 29, 2014)

Poec54 said:


> Thank you.  And yet we have people telling us 'any species' is fine for a first tarantula if you do some online research.  That takes the place of experience.  Great advice.
> 
> ---------- Post added 09-29-2014 at 03:37 PM ----------
> 
> ...



One other thing Bob, the personal attacks on Tgrip77 because he doesn't share your thoughts or values just makes you look like an ass. Did a Haplopelma crawl into your pajamas? Now I KNOW that BobGrill/Arachnocrusader didn't let one get loose! So it must be WC, sucked into the gravitational pull of your ego. Hey can you catch me a P. metallica? Female?


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## BobGrill (Sep 29, 2014)

VenomousMe said:


> One other thing Bob, the personal attacks on Tgrip77 because he doesn't share your thoughts or values just makes you look like an ass. Did a Haplopelma crawl into your pajamas? Now I KNOW that BobGrill/Arachnocrusader didn't let one get loose! So it must be WC, sucked into the gravitational pull of your ego. Hey can you catch me a P. metallica? Female?


What the heck are you talking about?

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## miss moxie (Sep 29, 2014)

VenomousMe said:


> My post about bite reports was about Bob's paranoia. I know OBT's bite people Akai. I've read the reports. Sounds painful. In some cases excruciatingly painful, lmao. But not life threatening. I meant what I said in all my posts. Fine, you want to advise caution to new keepers, that's great, really, but why not keep it at that? I think you all need to understand just how much you are turning people off to old world T's, many of which are some of the most interesting tarantulas in the hobby. Turning people away by telling them they aren't ready for one is wrong, period. You have no idea if they are or not. How about just advising caution? Maybe point them in the direction of...say..google. Tell them to research and think about the repercussions of making mistakes with these animals. Don't just bum rush them with several posts from several people all saying basically "NO, THAT'S A BAD IDEA! When all you know about the person is that they like poecis, or H. lividium, or whatever.. I really believe this attitude of caution puts off more of a fear vibe, and it transmits right to new keepers, stopping some of them from pursuing the things they want and would enjoy, making people forget that they're humans and can keep calm and outsmart an insect. It's doing more harm then good. But that's just my opinion, as you say.


Uhhh, I'm not turned off of OWs or scared of them. I'm excited for the day I know I'm ready for them. Maybe you should stop being the ambassador for all the 'newbies' when most here do not agree with you.

I'm still trying to wade through your logic. You say that when advanced keepers -warn- these new hobbyists of the speed, volatility, and potency of OWs and that turns the person off from what they "really" want? Did you ever think that just maybe these new hobbyists decide that it isn't really what they want when faced with the truth? If you have a baby in your home, and you find out an OBT bite could do serious damage (maybe even death considering how small a baby is) then maybe that bright orange spider is NOT the tarantula for you. Or maybe they just don't want to be potentially bitten, or perhaps the idea of a very defensive T intimidates them.

There is a reason why, when warned, some people change their mind. And it usually isn't because they are frightened or turned off- it's because they decide that is more than they are ready to deal with. Would you rather people not be warned, then get these tarantulas they can't handle? So that this now unwanted tarantula that they have no idea how to take care of can be either neglected, or set 'free' in their back yards, or otherwise loose to potentially harm someone and wind up in a news article?

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## gobey (Sep 30, 2014)

Ugh man did we have to drag this part of this up again?

So like.... I have OBTs, and 2 P. regalis, and 2 H. macs. I was warned. By Poec, and Storm, and Cold Blood, and Belle, and all the smart guys who have been doing this for a while who are all giving fair warning. 

These were the people who helped most with my basic T questions way back too with my Avic and porteri. And I took my notes and did my reading and knew where they all were coming from. But made my decisions anyways with certain circumstances to why.

Now you're gonna have people who ignore advice from these guys altogether and start off in the deep end ignorant. People who take notes and move forward quickly. And people who heed warning and move at a slightly slower pace and take it in steps.

And what's the problem in that system staying there. It's like the surgeon general's warning.

There are enough people going into this ignorant who do need to know what the animals are and what they're capable of. After that well people are gonna do whatever they want regardless of what Poec tells them to do.

But if you encourage everyone who doesn't know anything that it's an ok species for anybody to start with. That's more counter productive than suggesting somebody get a different tarantula before that onevenomousit's not as aggressive/fast/venomous.

Again. This coming from the dude who went balls deep into tarantulas in 4 months. Like if my friend was like "you have 10 babies. Can I have one? Tarantulas seem cool. He's getting a B. albopilosum. Not even the 6 leg OBT sling would I let near any of my friends. It's a spaz and they'd freak and kill it if not lose it or freak it out and get a surprisingly horrible bite from something the size of a house spider.


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## cold blood (Sep 30, 2014)

VenomousMe said:


> One other thing Bob, the personal attacks on Tgrip77 because he doesn't share your thoughts or values just makes you look like an ass.


You do realize this is basically all you have done since you have been here?  Anyone not sharing your views has been blasted repeatedly, and this thread is no different.  Earlier in another thread you attacked someone simply because you didn't like the way they corrected your error about hairs growing between molt (and the person you went after was 100% correct).  Personal attacks are what you do here, from what I can tell, and I'm sure there's more to come in the near future.

The thing that really has me scratching my head comes from your insistence on suggesting that OW's, OBT specifically, are suitable for beginners with merely research being done.   Here's what baffles me about your fantastic confidence that you have on your stance, and it comes from your comments in the thread "tarantula behaviors" where you plainly say:

 "I'm still new to the hobby..." 

And when referring to your OBT you say "mine are only slings".

Your new to the hobby and yet you feel you know more than people that have 10, 20, 30 or more years of responsible keeping under their respective belts, which makes zero sense. And just the fact that yours are still slings means you have zero experience with an adult, or even a juvie of the species.   If they maintained their sling attitude as they grew, you would be right on the money, but they typically don't.  Fact is that OW's very often are indeed easy to keep as slings, but they grow out of this stage as they get larger and more confident.   An OW sling is much different than an adult, which the people you continually argue with fully understand...and one day you probably will as well.  

If you are new to the hobby, as YOU said, you should be doing a lot more absorbing info than dispensing it and less arguing with people that are trying to give info based on their decades of experience...experience matters A LOT more than research.  **Research can only take you so far**.   Driving a car is relatively simple, but I wouldn't trust someone with my car that never drove, just because they did years of research, as its equally as incomplete.

And no one is being turned off of OW t's, their popularity continues to increase every year as more and more species become readily available.   

Anyone feel like getting back to the original topic?

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## Tim Benzedrine (Sep 30, 2014)

back on topic? Nah, this has been more interesting.  Not that the original topi wasn't interesting mind you...so anyway, I won't blow off on the controversy, except that perhaps I wish that somebody had told me a long time ago that there was a bit more to iguana keeping than met the eye. (There was no internet to speak of then, and even print naterial was inadequate and scarce.) I would have been happier and perhaps the iguana I had would have been happier as well instead of the five-foot long monster he became, with inadequate caging and a vile temperament until he succumbed at only seven years. Not my proudest moment of animal husbandry. I did learn a lot though, and it was a long time ago, as I said..

 Now we have the internet at our fingertips where you can find information AND have somebody warn you if you might be making a mistake in considering some species that can be known to be problematic. So why NOT advise people to err on the side of caution? i would not have been offended if somebody whom I considered to be knowledgeable had told me that I might want to reconsider my choice in lizards, and probably would have been a bit put out if somebody had told me "Iguanas? Oh yeah, they are a breeze! Just do some research." Not bad advice, of course, but I would not have minded a few warnings as well. They may have dissuaded me from making an expensive and regrettable decision. Yeah,yeah, I realize that iguana/old world T's is probably comparing apples to oranges.



> The thing that really has me scratching my head comes from your insistence on suggesting that OW's, OBT specifically, are suitable for beginners with merely research being done. Here's what baffles me about your fantastic confidence that you have on your stance, and it comes from your comments in the thread "tarantula behaviors" where you plainly say:
> 
> "I'm still new to the hobby..."
> 
> And when referring to your OBT you say "mine are only slings".


 I too found that to be a little puzzling. I'm not passing judgment, onto VenomouMe, but I'm reminded of another poster that was once here. He would offer advice and would frequently drop the buzzwords "My research has shown" in preface to his statements, apparently in an effort to make his opinions and advice ring with some authority on the matter. Well, it seemed a little fishy, and one of our sleuths caught him posting on another messageboard admitting that he was a total beginner. He was called out on it here. He sort of disappeared after that.

That isn't that relevant a story by the way, it just always made me giggle. Also,  I'm not comparing that old member with VM, but I do sort of get that vibe...


However, the point made earlier about aggressive behaviour in reaction to  (I think it was Ratluvrs')  offer of help, which was backed up by another poster as being reliable - and I'm sure I was not alone in agreeing with her and her backup's assertion - sort of stuck out a bit, as it was both hostile and patronizing. The only thing that usually accomplishes is getting put on people's ignore list in a best case scenario, or getting whacked by a mod in a worst case one.

But in the end, there is nothing wrong with advising somebody that  a more difficult tarantula might not be what somebody is looking for when entering the hobby. Me, i just got a couple of what might be considered intermediates by some, and I was never in any hurry getting even those until quite recently. That is if you consider A. genic, and L. Parahybana to be "intermediate. Some will not)I do due to hair flicking of what is considered to be one of the more potent forms of urticating hairs (to some, anyway) and that some extra care should be taken due to aggressive feeding responses and the possibility of a consequential mechanical problem incurred from a bite.If an overwhelming number of people had told me that I was making a mistake, I would have seriously thought it over. After reading about them here, I think those two would probably be considered beginner intermediate spiders perhaps. Easy to care for, but with a couple risks (arguably fairly low, but risks nonetheless) that should be taken into account. 

Whew! Sorry, as usual, I have a tendency to ramble!

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## Akai (Sep 30, 2014)

my first tarantula was a juvenile B. smithi that was passed down to me when i was 12 years old.  this was back in the 80s.  back before the internet.   there was little to no information in regards to keeping them and certainly no forums where you could connect to other keepers and get info on husbandry.  the only thing i could do was replicate its native habitat in Mexico which was easy since I live next door in Texas.  i fed it wild caught insects such as grasshoppers and yes i know that sounds terrible but i didnt know any better.  thats just the kind of kid i was .   back then kids actually played outside.  i'm talking sun up to sun down coming home for dinner dirty, accomplished and sometimes with my latest creature i caught in tow much to my mothers chagrin.  i had that B. smithi for 7 years and it was a very important part of my life growing up laying the foundation for me into the hobby today.  it was the perfect tarantula for a beginner like me.  i gave him away when i turned 19 and joined the military but i always thought about that Smithi.  i still do to this day.  it left an endearing impression on me when i was a kid...so much so that i have 6 in my collection.  my point is that people get into this hobby at all ages.  i couldn't imagine owning an old world as my first T as a kid.  that would have probably turned me off from the get go knowing their temperment.  i've had a juvenile run up a pair of 12 inch tongs and almost tag me during a rehouse.  owning an OBT sling is quite different then owning an adult...especially a female.  owning a sling doesn't make you an expert.  i'd like to see a newbie rehouse a pissed off adult.  the fact of the matter is the market is flooded with them.  they are relatively easy to breed and females can have large sacs even double clutch.  they are probably one of top 5 tarantulas you are going to get as a freebie so its inevitable you are going to own one.  they can be had for dirt cheap.  in many ways they are quite disposable and certainly the cheapest OW you could get.  i liken them as the G. roseas of the OW.  Thats how common they are.  experience trounces knowledge when it comes to OW Ts and newbies come in all ages and all backgrounds...some more prepared then others.  i'd be more inclined to trust a herp guy transitioning to tarantulas then say someone transitioning from a gerbil or a cockatiel.  know what i'm saying?  what's the point of keeping something you are afraid of or uncomfortable keeping?  if you are a newbie and want to own an OW.  Go right ahead.  nobody is stopping you.  start off with a sling and grow your confidence with it but just remember a newbie comes in all ages and all backgrounds and there are plenty of young people who read these forums who live at home, have siblings, have other pets and just might want an OBT because its cool and they want to show off  and hold it because some guy on YouTube is holding one.

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## jigalojey (Sep 30, 2014)

I can confirm that OW slings are nothing like their adult counterparts, very shy and hide in their burrows, they start getting a bad temper around the mid to late juvie stages and become totally feral as an adult of course their are exceptions to this rule but generally speaking. In the Aussie hobby we actually recommend slings as a beginner tarantula since all the species are terrible starters :laugh: I couldn't tell you guys how many beginners I have seen leave as fast as they came over here simply because they're way over their head and it's through no fault of their own because they're chucked into the deep end and told to deal with it and it sucks because it turns a lot of people over here off but the ones who do last become very strong T owners. Common occurrence "Giving away P.Crassipes  free off charge, I can't deal with him"

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## Akai (Sep 30, 2014)

i don't have any aussie species in my collection but i've been wanting some for quite some time.  P. crassipie is on my wish list and they have the worst venom of any tarantula in the hobby is that correct?  does that go for all Phlogius species or is there one worse then P. crassipes?


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## jigalojey (Sep 30, 2014)

Not so sure about the worst but it's for sure a top 1% up there with the worst of the worst Pokies, I have been bitten and it was worse than dislocating my shoulder MUCH worse, the whole arm was as stiff as a rock for 14 hours even after getting good quality muscle relaxers at the hospital and it looked like I came out of the shower I was sweating that much, keep your animals away from their tank since they have a 100% kill rate on any dog/cat and there is nothing you can do to save them once bitten.

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## Akai (Sep 30, 2014)

Austrailia just has bad stuff to be bitten or stung by general huh?  i don't think i could even go the beach barefoot much less swim in the ocean.  lol


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## Formerphobe (Sep 30, 2014)

I've tried to ignore this thread.  It has digressed to being the equivalent of a really bad Jerry Springer episode. 

By definition, the word 'feral' cannot be applied to tarantulas. A feral animal is an individual, or a descendant of an individual of a domesticated species who has reverted to living in a wild state.  Tarantulas have never been domesticated.

The best tarantula is one that brings the keeper a great deal of satisfaction in raising/having/observing.  As was mentioned early on, beauty and desirable characteristics are in the eye of the beholder.  It's even better if said T didn't cost an arm and a leg, and doesn't bite the keeper on the nose or flick hairs in his/her eye.  There is enough variety of species available to accommodate all tastes.

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## jigalojey (Sep 30, 2014)

Yeah it's prettty rough in the wild down here, when I'm out collecting spiders I have to be careful not to get in a fight with an eastern brown, those things are mean, funnel webs are cool though I know the Americans really want them in the hobby.


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## vespers (Sep 30, 2014)

jigalojey said:


> I can confirm that OW slings are nothing like their adult counterparts


Quite often true. For example, my little 1.5" L. violaceopes sling is nothing like my adult female in temperament.


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## Fyrwulf (Sep 30, 2014)

jigalojey said:


> Yeah it's prettty rough in the wild down here, when I'm out collecting spiders I have to be careful not to get in a fight with an eastern brown, those things are mean, funnel webs are cool though I know the Americans really want them in the hobby.


There's actually a store in Austin that has them in an under counter display, half a dozen, but they're marked as not for sale. Probably rescues, because they keep a two-toed sloth that's not for sale that they rescued.


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## jigalojey (Sep 30, 2014)

Fyrwulf said:


> There's actually a store in Austin that has them in an under counter display, half a dozen, but they're marked as not for sale. Probably rescues, because they keep a two-toed sloth that's not for sale that they rescued.


 Australian funnel webs?

---------- Post added 10-01-2014 at 03:50 AM ----------




Formerphobe said:


> I've tried to ignore this thread.  It has digressed to being the equivalent of a really bad Jerry Springer episode.
> 
> By definition, the word 'feral' cannot be applied to tarantulas. A feral animal is an individual, or a descendant of an individual of a domesticated species who has reverted to living in a wild state.  Tarantulas have never been domesticated.
> 
> The best tarantula is one that brings the keeper a great deal of satisfaction in raising/having/observing.  As was mentioned early on, beauty and desirable characteristics are in the eye of the beholder.  It's even better if said T didn't cost an arm and a leg, and doesn't bite the keeper on the nose or flick hairs in his/her eye.  There is enough variety of species available to accommodate all tastes.


 Oh you're one of those guys that nit pick everything.... they gain more attitude, happy?


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## miss moxie (Sep 30, 2014)

Formerphobe said:


> By definition, the word 'feral' cannot be applied to tarantulas. A feral animal is an individual, or a descendant of an individual of a domesticated species who has reverted to living in a wild state.  Tarantulas have never been domesticated.


Actually, there is more than one definition to the word feral. You're not wrong, but you're not 100% right.



> Full Definition of FERAL
> 
> 1:  of, relating to, or suggestive of a wild beast <feral teeth> <feral instincts>
> 2a :  not domesticated or cultivated :  wild
> 2b :  having escaped from domestication and become wild <feral cats>


Considering that you do indeed agree tarantulas have never been domesticated, then 2a would definitely apply.

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## jigalojey (Sep 30, 2014)

Well there you go, I stick with my original wording then


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## Akai (Sep 30, 2014)

Fyrwulf said:


> There's actually a store in Austin that has them in an under counter display, half a dozen, but they're marked as not for sale. Probably rescues, because they keep a two-toed sloth that's not for sale that they rescued.


they have an Atrax robustus in Austin?  where?  zookeeper?  i use to trade slings to them years ago and its been years since i've been.  you've got me curious.


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## Formerphobe (Sep 30, 2014)

jigalojey said:


> Australian funnel webs?
> 
> ---------- Post added 10-01-2014 at 03:50 AM ----------
> 
> Oh you're one of those guys that nit pick everything.... they gain more attitude, happy?


Well, even in this age of No Child Left Behind, if an individual wants to be taken seriously, they will learn the definition and proper usage of the words they choose to use.  

To date, all of my OW have gone through a flighty juvenile stage, then settled down as adults. I do tend to house in permanent enclosures earlier than most keepers, and refrain from poking, prodding or otherwise antagonizing my spiders. 

And, I'm not a guy, Junior.

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## jigalojey (Sep 30, 2014)

But unfortunately for you the definition of feral is on my side  "not domesticated or cultivated" you will get me one day champ but today isn't the day


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## Fyrwulf (Sep 30, 2014)

Akai said:


> they have an Atrax robustus in Austin?  where?  zookeeper?  i use to trade slings to them years ago and its been years since i've been.  you've got me curious.


They're marked as Australian Funnel Web. But, yeah, it's Zookeeper.


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## jigalojey (Sep 30, 2014)

Oh right, yes Australia allows overseas Zoos to keep Australian fauna, they're probably the infamous Sydney Funnelweb since they're the most iconic of the funnel webs and possibly the world.


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## Fyrwulf (Sep 30, 2014)

jigalojey said:


> Oh right, yes Australia allows overseas Zoos to keep Australian fauna, they're probably the infamous Sydney Funnelweb since they're the most iconic of the funnel webs and possibly the world.


Zookeeper is an exotic pet shop. Zookeeper will take exotics off of people's hands if they can't deal with them. They have a two-toed sloth there that a college girl received as a gift from her father, she couldn't handle it so she gave it to Zookeeper and they've kept her ever since. Most likely the funnel webs were illegal exports and not something they're comfortable with selling to even an experience keeper of arachnids given the possible consequences.


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## jigalojey (Sep 30, 2014)

I see, I have never heard of a shop like this. I can 100% guarantee you it was illegally smuggled unfortunately, it probably was smuggled to Europe then found it's way to America. Thank god they made it into the Zookeepers hands.


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## Fyrwulf (Sep 30, 2014)

Anyway, let's get this thread back on topic. I don't think there's a "best tarantula". I think there's keeper's interests and finding the tarantula that fits those interests.

1) Beginner, Intermediate, or Expert?
2) Hole-in-the-ground, surface dweller, or arboreal?
3) Colorful or camo? If the former, what color?
4) Slow, quick, fast, or "Warp speed, Mr. Sulu."?
5) Urticating hairs or no?
6) What's your pain tolerance and do you have any medical conditions that a bite might aggravate?

Probably something I missed, but I tried to build the Q&A around precluding the OW vs NW discussion.


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## Akai (Sep 30, 2014)

definitely illegally smuggled.  this is a top 10 most venomous spider in the world.   nasty buggers from everything i've read.


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## jigalojey (Sep 30, 2014)

Akai said:


> definitely illegally smuggled.  this is a top 10 most venomous spider in the world.   nasty buggers from everything i've read.


 Yep and I would bet money they were taken to Europe first, god damn Europeans always have their hands illegally in our Fauna and I really hate it. I have some species and I love watching them drip venom when they get defensive, fascinating spiders.


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## Fyrwulf (Sep 30, 2014)

jigalojey said:


> Yep and I would bet money they were taken to Europe first, god damn Europeans always have their hands illegally in our Fauna and I really hate it.


And by Europeans, you mean Germans. They're the Pokemasters of the world, gotta catch 'em all. No offense intended, Storm76.


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## jigalojey (Sep 30, 2014)

Fyrwulf said:


> And by Europeans, you mean Germans. They're the Pokemasters of the world, gotta catch 'em all. No offense intended, Storm76.


Hahaha they're great at breeding as well,  I think it's the Germans and the Swedes that like smuggling everything.


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## VenomousMe (Sep 30, 2014)

cold blood said:


> You do realize this is basically all you have done since you have been here?  Anyone not sharing your views has been blasted repeatedly, and this thread is no different.  Earlier in another thread you attacked someone simply because you didn't like the way they corrected your error about hairs growing between molt (and the person you went after was 100% correct).  Personal attacks are what you do here, from what I can tell, and I'm sure there's more to come in the near future.
> 
> The thing that really has me scratching my head comes from your insistence on suggesting that OW's, OBT specifically, are suitable for beginners with merely research being done.   Here's what baffles me about your fantastic confidence that you have on your stance, and it comes from your comments in the thread "tarantula behaviors" where you plainly say:
> 
> ...


1) You're right, I did attack someone for a mildly smartassed response to my post, and I keep forgetting to apologize, I did over-react. The reason I did is apparent to ANY new forum goer here, except for maybe the ones who are already fawning over your wise little clique that likes to support each others every post...but that's a whole nuva story..

2)You're also absolutely right, I'm new, with only four months experience and 12 T's. Only 2 have molted and I haven't bred any of them. My knowledge of this hobby comes from internet searches. Sorry, "research", and what little experience I've gleaned from obsessing over my own.

3)Thanks for pointing out that slings aren't the same as adults. I could never have figured that out without practical experience. I think you, like many of the groupies here responding to me, know exactly what I'm saying about your bulloop:. Don't pretend to misunderstand so you can get brownie points trashing me, cronie.... I use AB to buy T's, I really don't need to post here at all...I can also get my T's elsewhere. But I won't. And from reading the narrow minded, fear mongering "my way or you're stupid" trash peddled by you "experienced" tarantula keepers, it would be useless anyways. These are INSECTS. SIMPLE ORGANISMS. They cannot outsmart you. I retract that last statement...they probably can...


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## Oumriel (Sep 30, 2014)

VenomousMe said:


> 1) You're right, I did attack someone for a mildly smartassed response to my post, and I keep forgetting to apologize, I did over-react. The reason I did is apparent to ANY new forum goer here, except for maybe the ones who are already fawning over your wise little clique that likes to support each others every post...but that's a whole nuva story..
> 
> 2)You're also absolutely right, I'm new, with only four months experience and 12 T's. Only 2 have molted and I haven't bred any of them. My knowledge of this hobby comes from internet searches. Sorry, "research", and what little experience I've gleaned from obsessing over my own.
> 
> 3)Thanks for pointing out that slings aren't the same as adults. I could never have figured that out without practical experience. I think you, like many of the groupies here responding to me, know exactly what I'm saying about your bulloop:. Don't pretend to misunderstand so you can get brownie points trashing me, cronie.... I use AB to buy T's, I really don't need to post here at all...I can also get my T's elsewhere. But I won't. And from reading the narrow minded, fear mongering "my way or you're stupid" trash peddled by you "experienced" tarantula keepers, it would be useless anyways. These are INSECTS. SIMPLE ORGANISMS. They cannot outsmart you. I retract that last statement...they probably can...


Are we still beating this dog to death?  If you feel that it is your responsibility to free the new T owners from the clutches of those annoyingly experienced and knowledgeable members, by all means you go right ahead. H. Macs and OBTs for everyone!  TBQH you are being rather annoying yourself, but hey everyone has their 15 minutes in the sun. Do I personally think an adult B.smithi is going to prepare a new keeper for an adult H. Mac? Nope. Do I think that there are people who are always going to get the T they want regardless of what other people say? Yeppers!  The Darwin awards are always looking for new story submissions. If it's important to whip out your spider epeen, by all means whip it out and swing it around. Just remember that you aren't going to get many ohoos and ahaas here.  The fact,yes I said FACT, of the matter is, fast defensive spiders and an unprepared keeper just does not mix. I don't care how many care sheets you have read or how much research you have done. Nothing prepares you for a large bolting tarantula like a large bolting tarantula. So untwist your panties and chill out.


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## jigalojey (Sep 30, 2014)

And this is the type of guy you want peddling dangerous species to beginners claiming humans are so far more advanced than tarantulas that it's impossible to make a mistake? Tell that to the thousands of bite reports on this forum alone <edit>, this is Hilarious to say the least. You're a class act buddy you talk a huge game but your collection of what 12 slings? says anything but, you have been in the hobby for 4 months settle down and stop trying to peddle obt's to beginners when you haven't even dealt with an adult yourself LOL. This is just way too outrageous to even be real,continue your job as a stand up comedian because you make a great one

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## VenomousMe (Sep 30, 2014)

Formerphobe said:


> I've tried to ignore this thread.  It has digressed to being the equivalent of a really bad Jerry Springer episode.
> 
> By definition, the word 'feral' cannot be applied to tarantulas. A feral animal is an individual, or a descendant of an individual of a domesticated species who has reverted to living in a wild state.  Tarantulas have never been domesticated.
> 
> The best tarantula is one that brings the keeper a great deal of satisfaction in raising/having/observing.  As was mentioned early on, beauty and desirable characteristics are in the eye of the beholder.  It's even better if said T didn't cost an arm and a leg, and doesn't bite the keeper on the nose or flick hairs in his/her eye.  There is enough variety of species available to accommodate all tastes.



Excuse me miss, tell me exactly how myself or any other person in this thread has acted like they're on the Jerry Springer show? Are my arguments or ideas invalid to you? Well I'll just shut up then, in the face of all you experts' experience and knowledge...and fear. I will however recommend you all read "I can do it" by I.M. Meek.

---------- Post added 09-30-2014 at 07:06 PM ----------




jigalojey said:


> And this is the type of guy you want peddling dangerous species to beginners claiming humans are so far more advanced than tarantulas that it's impossible to make a mistake? Tell that to the thousands of bite reports on this forum alone <edit>, this is Hilarious to say the least. You're a class act buddy you talk a huge game but your collection of what 12 slings? says anything but, you have been in the hobby for 4 months settle down and stop trying to peddle obt's to beginners when you haven't even dealt with an adult yourself LOL. This is just way too outrageous to even be real,continue your job as a stand up comedian because you make a great one



You assume way to much.


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## jigalojey (Sep 30, 2014)

No "expert" here would fear anything, are you trying to say I fear old worlds? If so this is about to get pretty funny. I fear beginners being baited into getting old worlds because someone downplays the significance of old world speed, aggression and venom toxicity, that's what I really fear.

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## Biollantefan54 (Sep 30, 2014)

Lets all tell beginners to get an OBT so they can get bit. The news would just love that! "Crazy spider lover almost dies by giant tarantula"

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## VenomousMe (Sep 30, 2014)

Oumriel said:


> Are we still beating this dog to death?  If you feel that it is your responsibility to free the new T owners from the clutches of those annoyingly experienced and knowledgeable members, by all means you go right ahead. H. Macs and OBTs for everyone!  TBQH you are being rather annoying yourself, but hey everyone has their 15 minutes in the sun. Do I personally think an adult B.smithi is going to prepare a new keeper for an adult H. Mac? Nope. Do I think that there are people who are always going to get the T they want regardless of what other people say? Yeppers!  The Darwin awards are always looking for new story submissions. If it's important to whip out your spider epeen, by all means whip it out and swing it around. Just remember that you aren't going to get many ohoos and ahaas here.  The fact,yes I said FACT, of the matter is, fast defensive spiders and an unprepared keeper just does not mix. I don't care how many care sheets you have read or how much research you have done. Nothing prepares you for a large bolting tarantula like a large bolting tarantula. So untwist your panties and chill out.


I have a question for you. Why are you replying to me? I will go right ahead..thanks for your sponsorship. Beating what dog to death? The dog that keeps jumping up and barking at me? I'm just responding to comments directed at me. I made one post, one post in this thread and look <edit>... Your intelligence levels are about equal with your intestinal fortitude and confidence.


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## Poec54 (Sep 30, 2014)

I believe we have two contenders for quote of the year:

- _'These are insects.'  _  This is a gem.  I can learn a lot from this guy.

- _'They cannot outsmart you.' _ Well, they manage to escape from and bite humans all too often.  But then, how much can anyone have experienced with a few slings for several months?  



4 months with spiders and he knows more than people that have been doing this for years, even decades.  The best part is he's picking fights with them left and right.  How'd we get so lucky?

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## jigalojey (Sep 30, 2014)

I want you to save this thread into a notepad VenomousMe  and come back and revisit it in 2 years and cringe at what you have been saying, 4 month all star.


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## freedumbdclxvi (Sep 30, 2014)

jigalojey said:


> Yep and I would bet money they were taken to Europe first, god damn Europeans always have their hands illegally in our Fauna and I really hate it. I have some species and I love watching them drip venom when they get defensive, fascinating spiders.


If you Aussies would just export them, the Europeans wouldn't have to come take them.


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## jigalojey (Sep 30, 2014)

freedumbdclxvi said:


> If you Aussies would just export them, the Europeans wouldn't have to come take them.


 I'm fine with exporting some and then letting them be captive bred.


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## miss moxie (Sep 30, 2014)

VenomousMe said:


> 1) You're right, I did attack someone for a mildly smartassed response to my post, and I keep forgetting to apologize, I did over-react. The reason I did is apparent to ANY new forum goer here, except for maybe the ones who are already fawning over your wise little clique that likes to support each others every post...


Since I'm actively contesting you, does that mean I'm part of this clique? I resent your assumptions there bub. But, I mean...if I'm gonna be part of a team, we're gonna need a team name.

Team Common Sense? Team Anti-ignoramuses?

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## Tim Benzedrine (Sep 30, 2014)

Wow! I just crawled out of the Watering Hole at the beginning of the month and I'm in a clique! Yay!

I'm not so sure that tarantulas can't outsmart me or not, in general I can be outsmarted by a box of rocks, but I CAN be outmaneuvered by them. And in the scale of things, outpaced by them too, so as one of AB's senior newbies, I heartily recommend I do not attempt to keep the hotter speedier species until I am more ready. Lessee...it took me 13 years to advance to "intermediate" so it will at least be 13 more before I get around to OBTs and kin.

Now, is there a secret handshake I'm supposed to know? Oh, and if the initiation is something like dropping an adult OBT down my pants, I'm out!

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## Tgrip77 (Sep 30, 2014)

speaking of dogs...
which do you think will become illegal to own in the states first? the pitbull or the obt? from the way some of you talk, there are beginners be rushed to the emergency room every week due to their incompetence of raising the ever so dangerous obt.
imagine how many people have been killed by pitbulls...but yet they are still available to buy/breed here in the states.
and for those of you talking about how serious the bites are from obts/pokies. the people that go to the hospital after being bit by these, are the same types (mike & carol bradys) that rush their kid to the doctor if they get a fever near 100 degrees..


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## BobGrill (Sep 30, 2014)

Just let it go already man.. it's done now let's move on.

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## Tgrip77 (Sep 30, 2014)

Poec54 said:


> 4 months with spiders and he knows more than people that have been doing this for years, even decades.  The best part is he's picking fights with them left and right.  How'd we get so lucky?


back when i was in construction (union journeyman tile installer) i worked with many older installers, guys that had been doing it 25+ years. i was constantly having to correct these morons and show them how the job should be done. they hated it...being bossed around by twenty something year old. with many of them, i would straight up tell my foreman..."this guy sucks and i refuse to have them as my helper...send him somewhere else tomorrow"
just becuase somebody does something for a long period of time....DOES NOT make them better than the new guy.


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## cold blood (Oct 1, 2014)

*pit bull*

There are many, many municipalities where pits are NOT legal to own.  If I go 1/2 mile down the road from me, they are not legal.  Much of the issue is that inexperienced owners LOVE to buy the breed for the wrong reasons and things very often turn out very bad...leading to bans all over the country.  In most cases when this breed ends up in a shelter they are immediately put down due to these very public issues, all because of the people that couldn't (or didn't know how to) handle or greatly underestimate their pitbull....Media has field days with the breed, leading to bans on them, give them a reason and they have the same field day with pokies and obt's.  Much the same, a pitbull is NOT a good beginner dog and is best in the hands of people with the proper experience.

Fair comparison

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## Tgrip77 (Oct 1, 2014)

lol...i liked how you blamed it on the inexperienced/beginners
in some areas of the country youre not aloud to have an RV parked in your driveway
and there are a few states that allow pot sales...others will lock you up for it, with the murderers and rapists
i see what youre trying to say...but you still missed my point a little


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## miss moxie (Oct 1, 2014)

cold blood said:


> There are many, many municipalities where pits are NOT legal to own.  If I go 1/2 mile down the road from me, they are not legal.  Much of the issue is that inexperienced owners LOVE to buy the breed for the wrong reasons and things very often turn out very bad...leading to bans all over the country.  In most cases when this breed ends up in a shelter they are immediately put down due to these very public issues, all because of the people that couldn't (or didn't know how to) handle or greatly underestimate their pitbull....Media has field days with the breed, leading to bans on them, give them a reason and they have the same field day with pokies and obt's.  Much the same, a pitbull is NOT a good beginner dog and is best in the hands of people with the proper experience.
> 
> Fair comparison


Indeed. In some apartment complexes, rented properties you cannot bring a pitbull in. The only reason more isn't being done against pits is because the public might have a bad view on the breed- but no one is going to green light a pitbull genocide.

No one would bat an eyelash if someone tried to pass laws prohibiting the import of foreign tarantulas. It's as if Tgrip believes the hobby is looked upon favorably and has wiggle room for 'accidents'. We just don't have a decent foothold, next to no one knows anything about tarantulas and most people assume they're dangerous.

And they aren't wrong. Because an OW in the hands of someone who cannot properly handle it is -very- dangerous.

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