# Ball python bite



## astraldisaster (Aug 6, 2011)

Hmmm. So, I just opened my ball python's cage up, with the intention of taking him for a quick handling session. He was hanging out with his head poking out of his hide...probably waiting for prey, now that I think about it.   Anyway, I slid the glass door open and he slithered forward excitedly, stayed there for a few moments, then lunged at my hand and tagged me! He let go a few seconds later, once he realized I wasn't food.

What I'm wondering is -- why would he do it? Is it simply that he was hungry, sensed my heat, and mistook my hand for prey? Maybe I shouldn't have tried to take him out at night, though I've done so before with no issue. He has always been a very docile snake since I got him 9 months or so ago. I don't think it was a defensive bite, since he never exhibited any sort of fear...he just confidently came forward and attacked. Could it have something to do with the fact that I recently got a pet hamster? The hamster's cage is kept about 20 feet away from the snake's, which I assumed was enough distance that he wouldn't be able to smell it....but please let me know if I'm mistaken. I've handled the snake since getting the hamster, and haven't noticed him behaving differently at all. I just want to make sure this is not the issue, since I plan on getting another snake soon. If it _could_ be the cause of my snake striking at me, then I will either move the hamster as far away as possible or rehome it. Thanks in advice for any input.


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## Anastasia (Aug 6, 2011)

I had a chondropython while back, he was sweetest and mellowest  thing, hang on my neck all day long, or just hide his head in my bra
one night I went in to his cage (one of the sprinkler was blocked) and he went right for my hand, bit me bad
I think they more active at  night/ evening so possibly that is their time to tag anything that's moves
would be my best guess


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## stewstew8282 (Aug 6, 2011)

Anastasia said:


> I had a chondropython while back, he was sweetest and mellowest  thing, hang on my neck all day long, or just hide his head in my bra
> one night I went in to his cage (one of the sprinkler was blocked) and he went right for my hand, bit me bad
> I think they more active at  night/ evening so possibly that is their time to tag anything that's moves
> would be my best guess


lucky snake u had there...


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## sick4x4 (Aug 6, 2011)

maybe going to shed soon??? I am assuming you feed it in a feeding tub right?? If not that could be it, at the zoo we have a huge rock python that was always fed in her enclosure. when we would open the door, she would get excited and strike at anything going into the door but once she realizes its not feeding time, she tends to calm down...do you wash your hands before you handle your snake? Could have had something on them that irritated it or could be acting like a snake lol....


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## astraldisaster (Aug 6, 2011)

Nope, I feed him in the cage...I've had zero problems so far, and I always make sure my hands are clean before opening the cage. I know many people prefer feeding in a separate enclosure, but I'm on the fence about it for one reason. I've read that it's better to feed snakes at night, since thats is when most naturally come out to hunt. Should I really be trying to get my hungry snake out of his cage while he's most alert and poised to strike? I guess I could do so with a hook, but that also seems like it might be stressful for the snake. I will certainly look into it, though.

Anastasia, sounds like your chondro was a great snake! What happened to him? Just wondering why you don't have him anymore.

Anyone have any theories about the hamster's presence in the room? I'm starting to think it's just a bad idea, but I'd like to know if it's actually possible that my snake could be smelling it 20 ft away.


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## pavel (Aug 6, 2011)

Anastasia said:


> I had a chondropython while back, he was sweetest and mellowest  thing, hang on my neck all day long, or just hide his head in my bra





stewstew8282 said:


> lucky snake u had there...


  +1  :laugh:

I would guess it was most likely a result of the fact that you feed him in the enclosure coupled with the fact that he may have been hungry and you put your hand in there at night when he is used to being "on the hunt".  I wouldn't expect the hamster to be an issue unless you had previously been handling the rodent or something that the rodent is often in contact with.  ( For example my rat snake, Osiris, is very docile but did bite someone once -- she had been handling a gerbil and did not wash her hands before handling him.)  

Now I do feed him in his enclosure and typically at night.  Handling I generally do earlier in the day.  If I do reach in for him in the evening I present him with the flat of my hand so he is met with a surface far too broad for him to bite.  This seems to work well in causing him to stop and sniff my hand first so he realizes that I am not a prey item.


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## skar (Aug 6, 2011)

I just watch the snakes movements... if it's locked on your hand it might bite it.. No big deal tho either way.


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## Anastasia (Aug 6, 2011)

astraldisaster said:


> Anastasia, sounds like your chondro was a great snake! What happened to him? Just wondering why you don't have him anymore.
> .


With my new job schedule I couldn't keep him anymore, snakes take more time then spiders. I had to give him away, unfortunately
I posted here for free, is longer he would get good home he was the sweetest green thing on earth


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## khil (Aug 6, 2011)

astraldisaster said:


> Hmmm. So, I just opened my ball python's cage up, with the intention of taking him for a quick handling session. He was hanging out with his head poking out of his hide...probably waiting for prey, now that I think about it.   Anyway, I slid the glass door open and he slithered forward excitedly, stayed there for a few moments, then lunged at my hand and tagged me! He let go a few seconds later, once he realized I wasn't food.
> 
> What I'm wondering is -- why would he do it? Is it simply that he was hungry, sensed my heat, and mistook my hand for prey? Maybe I shouldn't have tried to take him out at night, though I've done so before with no issue. He has always been a very docile snake since I got him 9 months or so ago. I don't think it was a defensive bite, since he never exhibited any sort of fear...he just confidently came forward and attacked. Could it have something to do with the fact that I recently got a pet hamster? The hamster's cage is kept about 20 feet away from the snake's, which I assumed was enough distance that he wouldn't be able to smell it....but please let me know if I'm mistaken. I've handled the snake since getting the hamster, and haven't noticed him behaving differently at all. I just want to make sure this is not the issue, since I plan on getting another snake soon. If it _could_ be the cause of my snake striking at me, then I will either move the hamster as far away as possible or rehome it. Thanks in advice for any input.


This is a bit strange. It COULD be the hamster, how recently did you get it? I wouldn't be surprised if he got its scent. I feed my snakes in their home, as do pretty much ALL the huge snake enthusiasts. It shouldn't be a problem especially with a nice snake like a ball python. Maybe it was just hungry or made a mistake. Hmmm


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## R McP (Aug 7, 2011)

if its a bite then release most likely its defence if it coils its usually means it mistook you for food


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## OphidianDelight (Aug 7, 2011)

Sometimes you just get bitten.  It may have nothing to do with the other factors, sometimes the act of opening an enclosure and reaching towards the snake while it is still in the tank is enough to trigger the response.  I always wash my hands and arms before handling out of habit since I'm sure I often reek of my pet birds.  In the past I have had a snake in a 55 in my living room with society finches in the same room on the other side and it never seemed to impact the snake's behavior.  At least it was a ball python; I've been bitten by larger ones before and had trouble locating the bite a day later.  I've had friends joke that if it isn't 8 feet or longer it doesn't count as a bite anyway!


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## hermit (Aug 7, 2011)

Ball python's don't see too well even at the best of times (forget pre-shed times), and they strike based mostly on heat sensing and smell. Some research I've looked at suggests that heat sensing is first. If he's hungry and it's night time and your warm hand is poking around in there without announcing what's going on, it's not really an incident that requires any real analysis to understand why it happened. I have a pretty big BP and there have been a few times when she's acted like she was going to strike and so I just talk to her a bunch and keep my distance and I find that making them aware of your presence with natural talking tone and volume seems to sometimes bring them out of their instinctive hunting mode when you need to get at them in the evening.


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## OphidianDelight (Aug 7, 2011)

hermit said:


> Ball python's don't see too well even at the best of times (forget pre-shed times), and they strike based mostly on heat sensing and smell. Some research I've looked at suggests that heat sensing is first. If he's hungry and it's night time and your warm hand is poking around in there without announcing what's going on, it's not really an incident that requires any real analysis to understand why it happened. I have a pretty big BP and there have been a few times when she's acted like she was going to strike and so I just talk to her a bunch and keep my distance and I find that making them aware of your presence with natural talking tone and volume seems to sometimes bring them out of their instinctive hunting mode when you need to get at them in the evening.


I agree with the majority of your advice; I have to ask does the talking really work?  I would figure that since they're deaf and have no ears it wouldn't.  Is it a frequency issue that they detect from the substrate (do they _feel_ the talking)?


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## hermit (Aug 7, 2011)

OphidianDelight said:


> I agree with the majority of your advice; I have to ask does the talking really work?  I would figure that since they're deaf and have no ears it wouldn't.  Is it a frequency issue that they detect from the substrate (do they _feel_ the talking)?


If they are in fact totally deaf to sound (news to me) then they definitely can feel sound waves, just like we can. In my quiet reptile room if I open the door to my snake's cage and just say something like "hey, what's  going on?", I definitely get a reaction. If they're just feeling the vibrations of my voice, that's still enough to notify them that someone is near and get them to inquire as to what's going on. I think it's reaching in without announcing yourself that makes a strike much more likely because you are liable to surprise them.

I should note that I didn't mean my message to suggest that I can reliably talk down my BP from a striking stance to docility. I just mean that I always use the same method of interacting with her and sometimes I have seen her go from strike mode to submission after a bit of working at it, other times I'll just close the cage and try again the next day, but that's only been maybe 3 or 4 times in 4 years. I've never been struck by any of my snakes yet (ball python, corn snake, bredli's python and a green tree python).

Edit: One more piece of information for consideration is that I DO only feed my ball python outside of her enclosure. I use a plastic feeding tub, not because I believe it will really rule out the possibility of in-cage strikes, but because I don't like her eating aspen shavings while trying to swallow her rat.


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## OphidianDelight (Aug 7, 2011)

I assumed they were deaf because of no external ears or auditory meatus.  I know my snakes are aware of my presence when I open doors or removed screen lids because it thumps against the tank and I know they perceive those vibrations.  Your post piqued my curiosity, no malice here.  With large constrictors I know to announce my presence by tapping with a hook everytime cage maintenance, water bowl changes, handling--basically anything but feeding--is performed and that over time the snake begins to respond accordingly.  Talking to them was just news to me.


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## hermit (Aug 7, 2011)

Ah, I guess talking to my snake is my take on your prodding around with a hook (which I don't have yet).


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## OphidianDelight (Aug 7, 2011)

I have come to the conclusion that it's probably just an issue of semantics.  You can both feel vibration by touch and hear vibration.  I just hope the semi-hijacking of the thread gave astral more ideas on how to interact with her ball to make further encounters positive.


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## astraldisaster (Aug 7, 2011)

khil said:


> This is a bit strange. It COULD be the hamster, how recently did you get it? I wouldn't be surprised if he got its scent. I feed my snakes in their home, as do pretty much ALL the huge snake enthusiasts. It shouldn't be a problem especially with a nice snake like a ball python. Maybe it was just hungry or made a mistake. Hmmm


I got the hamster about a month and a half ago, and have handled my snake several times since. Maybe that's not the issue...however, it's possible that he got the hamster's scent the other night for whatever reason. The ceiling fan was on, so maybe it blew the rodent's scent his way.



R McP said:


> if its a bite then release most likely its defence if it coils its usually means it mistook you for food


Or maybe he _was_ just being unusually defensive; something could have spooked him. Since he didn't try to constrict my hand, that does seem like a possibility. Couldn't he have maybe realized once he bit me that I didn't taste like a rat, though, or that I was too big to even attempt to subdue?



OphidianDelight said:


> Sometimes you just get bitten.  It may have nothing to do with the other factors, sometimes the act of opening an enclosure and reaching towards the snake while it is still in the tank is enough to trigger the response.  I always wash my hands and arms before handling out of habit since I'm sure I often reek of my pet birds.  In the past I have had a snake in a 55 in my living room with society finches in the same room on the other side and it never seemed to impact the snake's behavior.  At least it was a ball python; I've been bitten by larger ones before and had trouble locating the bite a day later.  I've had friends joke that if it isn't 8 feet or longer it doesn't count as a bite anyway!


True, at least it was just a ball python! The bite stung slightly more than I was expecting, since he nailed me hard on the back of my hand where the skin is very thin. I actually have a small bruise there, along with a nicely delineated outline of his jaw. XD  If that's the best he can do, I'm really not afraid of his jaws...still, I would like to avoid it happening again in the future! He's usually such a nice, laid-back snake that I don't hesitate to take out and show friends. The only other time he bit me was because I startled him (I think he was sleeping, and I grasped the edge of his hide to remove it so I could get to him. That one was just a little nip -- he didn't even hang on for a full second. Anyway, I may never know exactly why he bit me, but I'll certainly be quicker to react should he exhibit the same warning signs again. And a coworker might be adopting my hamster, because I don't want to risk that leading to a recurring issue.

Hermit and OphidianDelight, thank you both for the enlightening discussion! I've learned a few things, and gotten some good ideas on how to interact with snakes.


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## catfishrod69 (Aug 7, 2011)

feeding in their home and removing and feeding in a different tub, is a highly debated topic, and i personally feed all my snakes in their homes, and never have problems....i have a ball python, hypo pastel red tail boa, and a pair of albino checker garters...the garters are the only ones that will bite, so far...and a good thing to do and get into a habit of doing, which i havent yet, but will be doing soon, is every single time you plan on holding your snake, tap them on the head lightly a few times with your feeding tongs, or whatever you use, just not your hand....and after a while of getting used to that, they will distinguish holding time from feeding time...


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## astraldisaster (Aug 7, 2011)

catfishrod69 said:


> feeding in their home and removing and feeding in a different tub, is a highly debated topic, and i personally feed all my snakes in their homes, and never have problems....i have a ball python, hypo pastel red tail boa, and a pair of albino checker garters...the garters are the only ones that will bite, so far...and a good thing to do and get into a habit of doing, which i havent yet, but will be doing soon, is every single time you plan on holding your snake, tap them on the head lightly a few times with your feeding tongs, or whatever you use, just not your hand....and after a while of getting used to that, they will distinguish holding time from feeding time...


I was considering switching over to a feeding tub for my ball, but I'm not convinced it's necessary. What's your opinion of feeding more aggressive snakes, such as emerald tree boas, this way? I've heard from many sources that tree snakes are almost always in hunting mode at night, and will often strike at anything that comes near them after dark. I'm seriously considering getting an ETB, and can only imagine the fun I would have attempting to remove and strike-happy snake like that from its cage for feedings (and since those would occur after dark, I imagine this would always be the case). Would a hook even protect me? There's an ETB at a local reptile shop that I have my eye on, and I know for a fact that he's handleable; an employee took him out for me last time I was there. I'm told he's always fed in his cage, at night, and has never struck at anyone during the day. They've had him for a couple of years, since he was a baby.


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## catfishrod69 (Aug 7, 2011)

i have a very fat healthy ball and i never have any problems holding or feeding her...only thing is she sucks at aim...she always hits the rat on the side, or misses...but i just let her have it, and she knows what to do...ive never owned any aggressive snakes, but in my opinion i would say for something with a bite reputation like a ETB, i would say always feed in its home, because its too much stress moving them for feeding, and most owners actually get tagged moving the snake to or from a feeding tub...ive always thought about getting a ETB, but kinda want to limit myself on time consuming creatures....i would say if you do get it, feed it in its home...be careful when holding it, and once you start getting tagged and realizing its not gonna stop, then just quit holding it completely...or just dont hold it from the start...i even freak when trying to pick up my little tiny 1 foot long male albino checker garter, even though his mouth cant get a bite on my skin, its still spooky...and i have to use a stick to pick him or the female up, and once they get in my hands they settle down....do you feed FT?





astraldisaster said:


> I was considering switching over to a feeding tub for my ball, but I'm not convinced it's necessary. What's your opinion of feeding more aggressive snakes, such as emerald tree boas, this way? I've heard from many sources that tree snakes are almost always in hunting mode at night, and will often strike at anything that comes near them after dark. I'm seriously considering getting an ETB, and can only imagine the fun I would have attempting to remove and strike-happy snake like that from its cage for feedings (and since those would occur after dark, I imagine this would always be the case). Would a hook even protect me? There's an ETB at a local reptile shop that I have my eye on, and I know for a fact that he's handleable; an employee took him out for me last time I was there. I'm told he's always fed in his cage, at night, and has never struck at anyone during the day. They've had him for a couple of years, since he was a baby.


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## OphidianDelight (Aug 7, 2011)

I feed prekilled inside the enclosure and don't have any problems with aggression--I have a carpet with a healthy feeding response, a blood python who goes aggro as soon as I walk in the room with the rats and a boa who is pretty mellow but alert when food is present.  All three of my snakes are easy to handle and I really only handle them when I am changing substrate or taking pictures.  The only thing I would look out for with feeding inside the cage isn't promoting aggressive behavior but impaction from substrate.  I watch to ensure everything gets swallowed without chunks of coir or soil going down the pipe too.  As long as you have a healthy, well-hydrated snake there shouldn't be any problems with feeding inside the tank.  I don't know if you're aware of this, but I wouldn't handle the snake within 48 hours or so of its last feeding; the prey item can tangle the snakes intestines and can cause a fatal condition.  Just .02 cents.


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## astraldisaster (Aug 7, 2011)

catfishrod69 said:


> i have a very fat healthy ball and i never have any problems holding or feeding her...only thing is she sucks at aim...she always hits the rat on the side, or misses...but i just let her have it, and she knows what to do...ive never owned any aggressive snakes, but in my opinion i would say for something with a bite reputation like a ETB, i would say always feed in its home, because its too much stress moving them for feeding, and most owners actually get tagged moving the snake to or from a feeding tub...ive always thought about getting a ETB, but kinda want to limit myself on time consuming creatures....i would say if you do get it, feed it in its home...be careful when holding it, and once you start getting tagged and realizing its not gonna stop, then just quit holding it completely...or just dont hold it from the start...i even freak when trying to pick up my little tiny 1 foot long male albino checker garter, even though his mouth cant get a bite on my skin, its still spooky...and i have to use a stick to pick him or the female up, and once they get in my hands they settle down....do you feed FT?


My ball has pretty decent aim, though he does sometimes hit the rat on its side. I feed f/t, and though he refused food for the first 6 months I had him, he's pretty into it now. I'm still fattening him up from the fast. I actually got him from the same shop that has the ETB, and they are _huge_ advocates of f/t. Unfortunately, they say that this particular ETB will only eat live mice, and insist that they have tried "everything" to get him to eat frozen. Nevertheless, if I do get him, I think I'll try my hand at eventually switching him over. Maybe start by dangling a live mouse on tongs, then offer a freshly killed one the next time. If he goes for that, I'll let him get really hungry and offer him f/t. I have heard of even very stubborn snakes eventually making the switch if they are hungry enough (and the keeper is determined enough).

I would like to keep the ETB handleable if he already is, so that I don't have to worry about him striking at me when I do want to get him out for cage cleanings, soakings, pictures, etc. I realize they aren't ball pythons and should be handled with caution, but I've read about and seen pictures of enough tame ones to know that they're not always the monsters they're made out to be.



OphidianDelight said:


> I feed prekilled inside the enclosure and don't have any problems with aggression--I have a carpet with a healthy feeding response, a blood python who goes aggro as soon as I walk in the room with the rats and a boa who is pretty mellow but alert when food is present.  All three of my snakes are easy to handle and I really only handle them when I am changing substrate or taking pictures.  The only thing I would look out for with feeding inside the cage isn't promoting aggressive behavior but impaction from substrate.  I watch to ensure everything gets swallowed without chunks of coir or soil going down the pipe too.  As long as you have a healthy, well-hydrated snake there shouldn't be any problems with feeding inside the tank.  I don't know if you're aware of this, but I wouldn't handle the snake within 48 hours or so of its last feeding; the prey item can tangle the snakes intestines and can cause a fatal condition.  Just .02 cents.


True, impaction _is_ a potential issue. I try to dangle the rat in the air as much as possible when feeding my snake. Oh, yes, I'm well aware that it's best not to handle a snake until 48 hours after feeding.


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## catfishrod69 (Aug 7, 2011)

glad you feed FT...best way to go...i seen some pics of a red tail boa that had been bitten on the head from a rat, and after $1000 and multiple surgeries they finally got the infection to quit...my red tail when i got him would not dare touch a frozen thawed, so i eventually had to take a live mouse and stick it in a bag and smack it off a rock then give him the twitching mouse, he immediately accepted, then the very next feeding was a frozen thawed and he took it, and has been ever since, he is now on small rats...when i thaw mine, i have them in a zip loc, and place them in cold water, then let them thaw for a couple hours, drain water, replace with lukewarm for a half hour or so, then drain and replace with hot, but just hot from the tap, and let it sit for another 20-30 minutes, then when they get their food its still warm...that might be another key to switching to FZ is to make sure that it is warm....if you wanna keep him handleable thats awesome...hope that it works out...i keep my boa on reptile carpet, and my ball on plastic and a sweater, so those i dont have to worry about impaction but my garters are on 50/50 of bark and soil, and i have been debating on switching them over to something else but they love to burrow under everythng...just havent gotten around to it yet...and something else that you might be interested in, and i plan on getting one for my boa and ball, is a Boaphile...if your not sure what one is go to boaphile.com   they are awesome...just havent saved up the money to get them yet...




astraldisaster said:


> My ball has pretty decent aim, though he does sometimes hit the rat on its side. I feed f/t, and though he refused food for the first 6 months I had him, he's pretty into it now. I'm still fattening him up from the fast. I actually got him from the same shop that has the ETB, and they are _huge_ advocates of f/t. Unfortunately, they say that this particular ETB will only eat live mice, and insist that they have tried "everything" to get him to eat frozen. Nevertheless, if I do get him, I think I'll try my hand at eventually switching him over. Maybe start by dangling a live mouse on tongs, then offer a freshly killed one the next time. If he goes for that, I'll let him get really hungry and offer him f/t. I have heard of even very stubborn snakes eventually making the switch if they are hungry enough (and the keeper is determined enough).
> 
> I would like to keep the ETB handleable if he already is, so that I don't have to worry about him striking at me when I do want to get him out for cage cleanings, soakings, pictures, etc. I realize they aren't ball pythons and should be handled with caution, but I've read about and seen pictures of enough tame ones to know that they're not always the monsters they're made out to be.
> 
> ...


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