# Heat mat help please



## david booth (Jan 11, 2017)

Hey there guys. I'm david and a brand new member from Nottingham, UK 
I have question about my heat setup. And any help will be greatly appreciated.
I have a 3x1x1ft glass terririum with two sliding doors for a lid. Inside are two 7-8 cm  H.spinifer forest scorpions. The exact same ones are my profile pic. I have 7-9 cm of peat / soil for sub. And loads of hides/decor/artificial plants Inside. I have a problem though with my heat mat. I think it's a 13w mat. But my thermomater is saying  it's only 22c inside that's roughly 70f I'm not sure tbh. I know they prefer 26-28c 80f I mist everyday and it gets very humid as the glass condensates and you can barely see Inside ( when this happens I open the top and wipe it off) this doesn't happen Often only if I seal the tank to crank hmidity up. Do I need a bigger heat mat/higher wattage?? Thankyou In advance


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## basin79 (Jan 11, 2017)

Get a bigger mat and stat it.

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## JoshBC (Jan 11, 2017)

david booth said:


> Hey there guys. I'm david and a brand new member from Nottingham, UK
> I have question about my heat setup. And any help will be greatly appreciated.
> I have a 3x1x1ft glass terririum with two sliding doors for a lid. Inside are two 7-8 cm  H.spinifer forest scorpions. The exact same ones are my profile pic. I have 7-9 cm of peat / soil for sub. And loads of hides/decor/artificial plants Inside. I have a problem though with my heat mat. I think it's a 13w mat. But my thermomater is saying  it's only 22c inside that's roughly 70f I'm not sure tbh. I know they prefer 26-28c 80f I mist everyday and it gets very humid as the glass condensates and you can barely see Inside ( when this happens I open the top and wipe it off) this doesn't happen Often only if I seal the tank to crank hmidity up. Do I need a bigger heat mat/higher wattage?? Thankyou In advance


Probably.  36"×12"×12" is a big tank. My biggest is 30"×12"×12" and it took two 16w heat pads, basically beside each other, to get it to temperature. On one end. Definitely get a second one or a larger one for one end. Or maybe think about a heat lamp and a 25w infrared heat bulb on one end. I use a digital thermometer probe I can place at ground level to check temps. It seems to be working so far. From what you said you probably are too. So move it around and if 22c is the warmest on the 'hot' side, then yes that's too cold. Be fine on the cold side though.

If they're hugging the heat pad, they're cold. If they're scrambling on the cold side, they're hot. Can be tricky to find the perfect balance. Good luck.

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## david booth (Jan 11, 2017)

Thankyou guys appreciate your Input
I'll get the bigger mat with a stat and set it to 28ish. and then look Into setting a bulb up. The scorps seem happy enough I'll get some pics of them and there tank tonight and post. Is the tank steaming up a problem, it's obviously the moisture rising from substrate and I've been told as long as it's a little damp and not soggy it's fine. I  have some stones In there with a small amount of moss on them that I'm trying Introduce to the tank and see if I can get it to carpet the floor with the moss.


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## basin79 (Jan 11, 2017)

david booth said:


> Thankyou guys appreciate your Input
> I'll get the bigger mat with a stat and set it to 28ish. and then look Into setting a bulb up. The scorps seem happy enough I'll get some pics of them and there tank tonight and post. Is the tank steaming up a problem, it's obviously the moisture rising from substrate and I've been told as long as it's a little damp and not soggy it's fine. I  have some stones In there with a small amount of moss on them that I'm trying Introduce to the tank and see if I can get it to carpet the floor with the moss.


Depending on where you place the stat you might have to set it higher than 28. I place my stats right on the mat or on the glass touching the mat. Obviously the mat reaches the desired temp and cuts off. But it's only the desired temp on the mat/glass not a little further out. Just have a play. You'll be wanting a temperature gradient.

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## JoshBC (Jan 11, 2017)

david booth said:


> Thankyou guys appreciate your Input
> I'll get the bigger mat with a stat and set it to 28ish. and then look Into setting a bulb up. The scorps seem happy enough I'll get some pics of them and there tank tonight and post. Is the tank steaming up a problem, it's obviously the moisture rising from substrate and I've been told as long as it's a little damp and not soggy it's fine. I  have some stones In there with a small amount of moss on them that I'm trying Introduce to the tank and see if I can get it to carpet the floor with the moss.


Steaming up a bit is fine. You hit the nail on the head, damp but not soaking. You know there's AFS's that can actually swim eh. Maybe try wetter on the 'cold' side. The 'hot' side will naturally be dryer. If you give them options, they'll find their comfortable spot.

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## JoshBC (Jan 11, 2017)

basin79 said:


> Depending on where you place the stat you might have to set it higher than 28. I place my stats right on the mat or on the glass touching the mat. Obviously the mat reaches the desired temp and cuts off. But it's only the desired temp on the mat/glass not a little further out. Just have a play. You'll be wanting a temperature gradient.


Couldn't agree more. It'll take some playing with, but you definitely want a temperature gradient.

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## basin79 (Jan 11, 2017)

basin79 said:


> Depending on where you place the stat you might have to set it higher than 28. I place my stats right on the mat or on the glass touching the mat. Obviously the mat reaches the desired temp and cuts off. But it's only the desired temp on the mat/glass not a little further out. Just have a play. You'll be wanting a temperature gradient.


Rather than editing it. Of course I mean the temp probe of the stat when I typed stat.

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## david booth (Jan 11, 2017)

Thanks alot guys very helpful. I'll sort it out and update with some pics. The goal is eventually to breed them I've had a look at there pestines and I think they're different but I wouldn't consider my self an expert. Thanks again guys


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## david booth (Jan 12, 2017)

Hey guys thanks for all the useful Info the original heat mat was a 300mm square 13 watt mat. I bought a 450 x 300 21 watt mat last night and replaced the smaller one. Originally the smaller one was underneath the tank. I'm thinkimg about using both mats and using them on the sides of the tank one on the right side and one on the back right corner so the hot spot has two mats on it I'll check the temp when I get home. What's the best way of attaching a matt to the side. Is it just sticky tape. Also as I said earlier my tank steams up alot. Would this effect a heat lamp?? Obviously water and electric is a no-no. I'd have to make a wooden mantle aswell to fix it. Thanks again guys


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## david booth (Jan 12, 2017)

basin79 said:


> Rather than editing it. Of course I mean the temp probe of the stat when I typed stat.


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## basin79 (Jan 12, 2017)

It's getting alot of condensation probably because of the heat mat under the tank. It should settle now you've got them both on the side. It could also be a lack of ventilation. Humid enclosures need good ventilation to stop the build up of stagnant air. It does seem counterintuitive but it is required.

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## david booth (Jan 12, 2017)

basin79 said:


> It's getting alot of condensation probably because of the heat mat under the tank. It should settle now you've got them both on the side. It could also be a lack of ventilation. Humid enclosures need good ventilation to stop the build up of stagnant air. It does seem counterintuitive but it is required.


Thanks dude. Im Not an expert, obviously I've done my research but I automatically assumed that as heat rises, underneath the tank would be ideal?? Do you always fix your heat mat to the side of your tanks?? Is there any other benifift behind this, and is it just sellotape to fix it on the side ?? Thanks again buddy. Sorry about all the questions I have been through the forum's via search but couldn't find much ?? Thanks dude


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## basin79 (Jan 12, 2017)

david booth said:


> Thanks dude. Im Not an expert, obviously I've done my research but I automatically assumed that as heat rises, underneath the tank would be ideal?? Do you always fix your heat mat to the side of your tanks?? Is there any other benifift behind this, and is it just sellotape to fix it on the side ?? Thanks again buddy. Sorry about all the questions I have been through the forum's via search but couldn't find much ?? Thanks dude


Scorpions and T's will instinctively dig down to get away from the heat. So if they do that they'll obviously get warmer. You can also get thermal blocking where the heat can't dissipate through the substrate and it gets dangerously hot. 

I attach heat mats with tape and put (kingspan an insulated board) behind them to direct all the heat into the enclosure.


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## david booth (Jan 12, 2017)

basin79 said:


> Scorpions and T's will instinctively dig down to get away from the heat. So if they do that they'll obviously get warmer. You can also get thermal blocking where the heat can't dissipate through the substrate and it gets dangerously hot.
> 
> I attach heat mats with tape and put (kingspan an insulated board) behind them to direct all the heat into the enclosure.


So I've moved the tank around and set the heat mats up as shown. I'm losing alot of heat out of the back of the mats though. This kingspan stuff you use...Would a thin polystyrene square do the same thing ?? Taped to the tank and insulating the heat mats??


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## basin79 (Jan 12, 2017)

david booth said:


> So I've moved the tank around and set the heat mats up as shown. I'm losing alot of heat out of the back of the mats though. This kingspan stuff you use...Would a thin polystyrene square do the same thing ?? Taped to the tank and insulating the heat mats??


Yes it'll do the same it just won't be as effective. But it'll make a difference.

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## david booth (Jan 12, 2017)

basin79 said:


> Yes it'll do the same it just won't be as effective. But it'll make a difference.


Thanks alot pal, I really appreciate it
 Sorry again about all the questions.


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## Venom1080 (Jan 12, 2017)

i thought heat mats were as bad for scorpions as they are for tarantulas...?

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## david booth (Jan 12, 2017)

Venom1080 said:


> i thought heat mats were as bad for scorpions as they are for tarantulas...?


Why would they be bad?? Have you had a bad experience ?? I've read there not very good underneath the tank.   But from what I read  alot of people use mats


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## Venom1080 (Jan 12, 2017)

david booth said:


> Why would they be bad?? Have you had a bad experience ?? I've read there not very good underneath the tank.   But from what I read  alot of people use mats


i read a few posts how they are bad for scorps. since you cant regulate the heat it gives off it can malfunction and burn your invert. 
as for tarantulas, they are plainly terrible in every possible way. mats are more popular in Europe, not very much on the states.

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## david booth (Jan 12, 2017)

Venom1080 said:


> i read a few posts how they are bad for scorps. since you cant regulate the heat it gives off it can malfunction and burn your invert.
> as for tarantulas, they are plainly terrible in every possible way. mats are more popular in Europe, not very much on the states.


OK pal thanks for the advice, I'm In the UK and mats are popular here to be fair. Plus my tank would need adapting to accept a ceramic lamp. Or any bulb socket In that case. I don't have and turantulas but I'd love some.


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## basin79 (Jan 12, 2017)

Venom1080 said:


> i thought heat mats were as bad for scorpions as they are for tarantulas...?


They aren't bad for T's. A mat that is stated is perfectly fine to provide heat.

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## basin79 (Jan 12, 2017)

david booth said:


> Thanks alot pal, I really appreciate it
> Sorry again about all the questions.


Not a problem. It's what forums are for. I've asked my fair share of questions in the past and will continue to ask them in the future.


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## Venom1080 (Jan 12, 2017)

basin79 said:


> They aren't bad for T's. A mat that is stated is perfectly fine to provide heat.


by stated, im assuming you mean it has a temp gauge thing that keeps it from overheating?


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## basin79 (Jan 12, 2017)

Venom1080 said:


> by stated, im assuming you mean it has a temp gauge thing that keeps it from overheating?


Yes. A mat stat. You plug the mat into it and the stat has a temp probe and a temp gauge. Once the probe hits the desired temp the mat gets knocked off.


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## david booth (Jan 12, 2017)

basin79 said:


> Not a problem. It's what forums are for. I've asked my fair share of questions in the past and will continue to ask them in the future.


That's how we learn buddy. Nobody knows everything lol


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## Venom1080 (Jan 12, 2017)

basin79 said:


> Yes. A mat stat. You plug the mat into it and the stat has a temp probe and a temp gauge. Once the probe hits the desired temp the mat gets knocked off.


Yeah, that'd be fine for one maybe two spiders. I much prefer space heaters.


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## david booth (Jan 12, 2017)

Venom1080 said:


> by stated, im assuming you mean it has a temp gauge thing that keeps it from overheating?


This is a mat stat venom, I don't use one at the moment but I bet they're pretty useful. Kemodo do a massive range of accessories In the UK


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## david booth (Jan 12, 2017)

Venom1080 said:


> Yeah, that'd be fine for one maybe two spiders. I much prefer space heaters.


Space heaters??


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## basin79 (Jan 12, 2017)

Venom1080 said:


> Yeah, that'd be fine for one maybe two spiders. I much prefer space heaters.


That's how I have my inverts heated. Much cheaper having 3 mats running.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## david booth (Jan 12, 2017)

basin79 said:


> That's how I have my inverts heated. Much cheaper having 3 mats running.


Is this just like a plug in radiator ??


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## basin79 (Jan 12, 2017)

david booth said:


> Is this just like a plug in radiator ??


Yes but I use mats NOT a space heater.

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## david booth (Jan 12, 2017)

basin79 said:


> Yes but I use mats NOT a space heater.


Okay then pal, I suppose it depends where abouts In The world you are


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## Venom1080 (Jan 12, 2017)

david booth said:


> This is a mat stat venom, I don't use one at the moment but I bet they're pretty useful. Kemodo do a massive range of accessories In the UK


if your rooms below 70 and you have one arachnid, and dont plan on getting more, a heat mat with that thing is a good option.

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## ShaunMot (Jan 13, 2017)

Good to see someone else from Nottingham on here


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## david booth (Jan 13, 2017)

ShaunMot said:


> Good to see someone else from Nottingham on here


Haha small world!! what animals do you have??


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## ShaunMot (Jan 13, 2017)

I 


david booth said:


> Haha small world!! what animals do you have??


have two hadrurus arizonensis, one male and one female,  one brachypelma albopilosum tarantula,  two g.rosea slings and one stromatopelma calceacum juvenile


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## david booth (Jan 13, 2017)

W


ShaunMot said:


> I
> 
> have two hadrurus arizonensis, one male and one female,  one brachypelma albopilosum tarantula,  two g.rosea slings and one stromatopelma calceacum juvenile


Wow nice. What are you getting next?? I'm looking at turantulas now


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## darkness975 (Jan 13, 2017)

@david booth The heat mat should not be underneath the enclosure since they will burrow down and cook.

They need several inches of the appropriate substrate within which to burrow and dig. Your enclosure appears to be pretty good although it could use a little more substrate.  Given that it is so large they would construct some monster tunnel systems in there.


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## david booth (Jan 13, 2017)

darkness975 said:


> @david booth The heat mat should not be underneath the enclosure since they will burrow down and cook.
> 
> They need several inches of the appropriate substrate within which to burrow and dig. Your enclosure appears to be pretty good although it could use a little more substrate.  Given that it is so large they would construct some monster tunnel systems in there.


Thanks dude, appreciate the Info. Do you keep scorps?? Thanks for compliment on the tank. When I get some lighting I'll take better photos. The sub I'm using is a coco soil mix that comes ready in a bag from my friend pet shop. I keep meaning to buy a "coco brick" that you just drop In a bucket with some water. I've moved the mats onto the sides and Now Im getting a steady 29c that's about 85f I think. So thats better. It would be great for them to have there own tunnel network although it would suck as id never see them lol.  It its better for them.Thanks again to everyone who's answered my questions and given advice. You guys are awesome


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## Red Eunice (Jan 14, 2017)

david booth said:


> It would be great for them to have there own tunnel network although it would suck as id never see them lol.


 ROFLMAO!!!
 "Daywalkers" will rarely see their burrowing scorps during the daytime. Wait a few hours after sunset and they're usually on the surface area hunting. Equip yourself with a torch, fitted w/h a red filter, or a UV torch to watch 'em moving about. Lift/remove the lid, drop a prey nearby and watch the action.  Its about 1:30AM here and feeding time  for my collection.


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## Galapoheros (Jan 14, 2017)

I don’t think there is much you can do about the condensation since it’s going to happen due to the room temperature cooling the glass down that’s holding a higher temp and humidity inside the terrarium.  There shouldn’t be condensation around the heat source though, like a mat, since it would be heating the glass up where it is.  Maybe putting heat cable in places on the outside would evaporate the water off the glass, keeping a few places clear of condensation.  You might be able to find something non-toxic to rub on the inside that causes the water to bead up and roll down so that it’s at least more clear.  You could also use a warm filament light, pointing it close to one side, it might warm the glass up enough there to evaporate the condensation.


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## david booth (Jan 14, 2017)

Red Eunice said:


> ROFLMAO!!!
> "Daywalkers" will rarely see their burrowing scorps during the daytime. Wait a few hours after sunset and they're usually on the surface area hunting. Equip yourself with a torch, fitted w/h a red filter, or a UV torch to watch 'em moving about. Lift/remove the lid, drop a prey nearby and watch the action.  Its about 1:30AM here and feeding time  for my collection.


Yeah I'll try to find a couple of red filtered torches I can sit on the lid when I want to watch. I'm going to get that coco brick today should I use warmer water because obviously I dont want to put a cold sub in there to SAP the heat. Apparently you get loads of sub form them and they're only £3 here so can't go wrong. Like I said previously Im Looking  to breed them and start of collection of different species of scorps a T'S and breed them to eventually. I read the ultra violet spectrum of light can blind them?? Is this true thanks again guys your awesome


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## david booth (Jan 14, 2017)

Galapoheros said:


> I don’t think there is much you can do about the condensation since it’s going to happen due to the room temperature cooling the glass down that’s holding a higher temp and humidity inside the terrarium.  There shouldn’t be condensation around the heat source though, like a mat, since it would be heating the glass up where it is.  Maybe putting heat cable in places on the outside would evaporate the water off the glass, keeping a few places clear of condensation.  You might be able to find something non-toxic to rub on the inside that causes the water to bead up and roll down so that it’s at least more clear.  You could also use a warm filament light, pointing it close to one side, it might warm the glass up enough there to evaporate the condensation.


Yeah I found that no matter what I try to do the cold side starts misting up within an hour or two of wiping with kitchen roll so I leave it to condensate and then wipe it maybe three times a day. It has been been getting better and it won't take hurt them at the end of the day. If I leave the lid open maybe 10-20mm on the cold side it helps alot buti lose some heat.


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## darkness975 (Jan 14, 2017)

david booth said:


> Do you keep scorps??


Yes.  I have scorpions, tarantulas, mantids, and other fun critters.


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## david booth (Jan 14, 2017)

darkness975 said:


> Yes.  I have scorpions, tarantulas, mantids, and other fun critters.


Sweet I defo want to build a collection like that, g.rosea next I think if I get a turantula. Although I'd love some emporers


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## darkness975 (Jan 14, 2017)

david booth said:


> Sweet I defo want to build a collection like that, g.rosea next I think if I get a turantula. Although I'd love some emporers


Most people that get "Rose Hairs" end up with _G. porteri. _Not that that is a bad thing but keep it in mind.  Make a thread in the Tarantula section since we usually don't recommend _G. porteri _or _G. rosea _as a first Tarantula. We'll steer you on the right path 

On topic with Scorpions: have you considered getting any arid species?


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## david booth (Jan 14, 2017)

darkness975 said:


> Most people that get "Rose Hairs" end up with _G. porteri. _Not that that is a bad thing but keep it in mind.  Make a thread in the Tarantula section since we usually don't recommend _G. porteri _or _G. rosea _as a first Tarantula. We'll steer you on the right path
> 
> On topic with Scorpions: have you considered getting any arid species?


What species of scorps and TS do you have ?? And yes I would really like the arid species but the start getting smaller that the tropical species and more venomous but I would defo keep the desert hairy are there any you'd recommend ??


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## darkness975 (Jan 14, 2017)

david booth said:


> I would really like the arid species but the start getting smaller that the tropical species and more venomous but I would defo keep the desert hairy are there any you'd recommend ??


_Hadrurus arizonensis _would be a good species for you to acquire.  They can be decent sized, usually eat well, and are quite active in comparison to a lot of other species.  Most of my _H. arizonensis _come out of their burrows almost nightly during their active season.  Right now they are in diapause though so they have been hidden away since late October.  They will re-emerge around late March or early April.


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## david booth (Jan 14, 2017)

Yeah if I was to get any it would be arizonisis or maybe jacksoni?? I can't decide, I defo want a turantula aswell. I'm I do occasionally handle my spinifers but only occasionally, I'll back them Into a plastic deli tub and get them to walk Into my hand. But only ever with my hand Inside the tank so they can't fall.i know they don't like being handled and it stresses them but sometimes it's easier to put them in a tub then to try to work around.d them. I'm pretty good with pain but I would defo avoid handling The smaller more venomous species. I need to get my head around the heating in this tank first lmao. I've done my research but can't figure the heating out


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## darkness975 (Jan 14, 2017)

david booth said:


> Yeah if I was to get any it would be arizonisis or maybe jacksoni?? I can't decide, I defo want a turantula aswell. I'm I do occasionally handle my spinifers but only occasionally, I'll back them Into a plastic deli tub and get them to walk Into my hand. But only ever with my hand Inside the tank so they can't fall.i know they don't like being handled and it stresses them but sometimes it's easier to put them in a tub then to try to work around.d them. I'm pretty good with pain but I would defo avoid handling The smaller more venomous species. I need to get my head around the heating in this tank first lmao. I've done my research but can't figure the heating out


I advise against any sort of handling of either Tarantulas or Scorpions.  Better for you and them alike.

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## david booth (Jan 14, 2017)

darkness975 said:


> I advise against any sort of handling of either Tarantulas or Scorpions.  Better for you and them alike.


Yeah I've had them two months and only did it twice. I know they don't like it and I only do it if they're in a good mood lol. To be fair I get anxious when I hold them so I wouldn't be bothered if I never did it again haha. Holding TS is a bit different because of there hairs. But I don't want to get bitten or stung in any case. They're more of a sit back and watch kind of pet. Leave them to it in they're open little world. What do you feed your scorps??


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## darkness975 (Jan 14, 2017)

david booth said:


> Yeah I've had them two months and only did it twice. I know they don't like it and I only do it if they're in a good mood lol. To be fair I get anxious when I hold them so I wouldn't be bothered if I never did it again haha. Holding TS is a bit different because of there hairs. But I don't want to get bitten or stung in any case. They're more of a sit back and watch kind of pet. Leave them to it in they're open little world. What do you feed your scorps??


I feed all of my Tarantulas, Scorpions, Mantids, etc. crickets usually.  Occasionally I will give roaches or mealworms.


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## Red Eunice (Jan 14, 2017)

David, honestly, slow down a bit. You're still having difficulties w/h housing issues, heat/moisture balance. Get these straightened out prior to getting species that need an opposite style care. Of course you can do and get what you please, can't stop you, only advise. I've been keeping scorps >2 years and started w/h C. gracilis, then into Heterometrus species. All required a heat/moisture balance and took a few months of tweaking to get it right. Most of the info was from here, All Scorpion Archives and a local long time keeper/breeder. Just be patient, one step at a time, and you'll do fine. Btw, H. arizonensis, many report molt issues, something to bear in mind. Plus as stated, another burrowing species requiring opposite care and substrate mix.

I've heard UV torches can irritate a scorpion's eyes, I use them to pinpoint their location prior to opening the enclosure. I use a headlamp equipped with red LEDs for prolonged viewing, reportedly it doesn't bother them. I've no studies to reference one way or the other on the UV blinding effect. 

Here in the states, most shy from using heat mats, just get a space heater is their usual answer. As @basin79 pointed out, use a thermostat to regulate the heater and place it on the side, not bottom. I raise my own feeder roaches, dubia and lateralis, and both are fitted w/h "mat stats" controlling the Flexwatt heat strips. Done correctly are quite safe and more energy efficient than a space heater.
Posting a pic of a heated cabinet I built a while back, under sized now, showing mat placement and controls. On left side is a 11"X48" Flexwatt heat strip, consumes about 40 watts while energized vs 750-1500 watts a space heater uses. Makes a difference when the utility bill arrives. Lol!
  On the right side is the control set up, a heat only residential thermostat that controls a contactor, feeding power to the heat strip. The control center is more complex looking than is really is. I just had the components handy and utilized then. A standard line voltage thermostat is much simpler, follow the instructions carefully and no problems. I'm also posting a pic of the thermostat I currently use, cost > $15 at local DIY centers. Temp range 40°F-85°F at +/- 2°F.

As far as the starter tarantula is concerned, I suggest reading through a few of the threads covering this in the tarantula section of the forum. Every member has his/her suggestions as the "ideal" first. Research the species suggested and go from there. (My 1st WAS a G.rosea (7/1991) that is actually a G. porteri and she is a much cherished lady.)


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## david booth (Jan 14, 2017)

Red Eunice said:


> David, honestly, slow down a bit. You're still having difficulties w/h housing issues, heat/moisture balance. Get these straightened out prior to getting species that need an opposite style care. Of course you can do and get what you please, can't stop you, only advise. I've been keeping scorps >2 years and started w/h C. gracilis, then into Heterometrus species. All required a heat/moisture balance and took a few months of tweaking to get it right. Most of the info was from here, All Scorpion Archives and a local long time keeper/breeder. Just be patient, one step at a time, and you'll do fine. Btw, H. arizonensis, many report molt issues, something to bear in mind. Plus as stated, another burrowing species requiring opposite care and substrate mix.
> 
> I've heard UV torches can irritate a scorpion's eyes, I use them to pinpoint their location prior to opening the enclosure. I use a headlamp equipped with red LEDs for prolonged viewing, reportedly it doesn't bother them. I've no studies to reference one way or the other on the UV blinding effect.
> 
> ...


Wow ....Your collection is awesome.  love the cabenit idea. I appreciate and respect your input. I'm no where near an expert but I've done my research. Just a  bit more difficult putting it into practice and I need to get my head around it, it won't take long like you said its just abit of fine tuning with the mats and stats and stuff. In regard to the other species I would never buy an animal that I couldn't competently care for I heavily researched the tropical species needs and requirements and now I've got some. I wouldn't start researching the arid species / turantulas  until my spinifers have bred because that would tell me the condidtions are perfect. I find inverts Fascinating and wouldn't be able to justify keeping them until I know that they'll be happy.


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## david booth (Jan 14, 2017)

darkness975 said:


> I feed all of my Tarantulas, Scorpions, Mantids, etc. crickets usually.  Occasionally I will give roaches or meal worms.


Sweet I'd love some more Inverts when I read up more a out them. 
I keep meaning to try to find roaches but they're hard to get hold of in the uk. What are wario worms??? I've seen them InPet stores. 
Everyone I've spoken to on here has been really helpful and have taught me alot so a massive thumbs up is needed.

Reactions: Like 1


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## darkness975 (Jan 14, 2017)

david booth said:


> Sweet I'd love some more Inverts when I read up more a out them.
> I keep meaning to try to find roaches but they're hard to get hold of in the uk. What are wario worms??? I've seen them InPet stores.
> Everyone I've spoken to on here has been really helpful and have taught me alot so a massive thumbs up is needed.


I am not sure what a "wario worm" is, but a mealworm (_Tenebrio molitor_) is this: http://mealwormcare.org/life-cycle/

You feed the larvae, not the adult beetles, to your pets.  I find crickets tend to be more attractive to them due to how much they move around (usually).


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## david booth (Jan 14, 2017)

darkness975 said:


> I am not sure what a "wario worm" is, but a mealworm (_Tenebrio molitor_) is this: http://mealwormcare.org/life-cycle/
> 
> You feed the larvae, not the adult beetles, to your pets.  I find crickets tend to be more attractive to them due to how much they move around (usually).


Thanks darkness, very Informative mate is there any particular reason you can't feed them the adult beetles ??


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## darkness975 (Jan 14, 2017)

david booth said:


> Thanks darkness, very Informative mate is there any particular reason you can't feed them the adult beetles ??


I am sure some people might but given their hard exoskeleton and their ability to give a good bite I prefer to use softer bodied prey items. Crickets and Roaches get my vote.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## david booth (Jan 14, 2017)

darkness975 said:


> I am sure some people might but given their hard exoskeleton and their ability to give a good bite I prefer to use softer bodied prey items. Crickets and Roaches get my vote.


Do you think one could hurt a scorpion?? And im strugling to find small roaches I can get hold hold of mealworms, wario worms, crickets, locusts.  But no roaches. Is there anything special you give your scorps as treat ??


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## darkness975 (Jan 14, 2017)

david booth said:


> Do you think one could hurt a scorpion?? And im strugling to find small roaches I can get hold hold of mealworms, wario worms, crickets, locusts.  But no roaches. Is there anything special you give your scorps as treat ??


Not really.  90% of the time I give them all crickets because that is what I have always available (I have a cricket tank).  Occasionally I'll throw a mealworm larvae or roach in there but I don't do it regularly just because I'm lazy.

Regarding your question about if an adult mealworm beetle could hurt a scorpion all I can say is I have never tried it but I would rather not take that risk.  Would not want it to bite/injure the scorpion or have the scorpion hurt its stinger.


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## Venom1080 (Jan 14, 2017)

@darkness975 mario worm= superworm

OP, you dont need it so hot. my room never goes above 78 in the winter, 85 seems excessive if not almost dangerous.


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## david booth (Jan 15, 2017)

Venom1080 said:


> @darkness975 mario worm= superworm
> 
> OP, you dont need it so hot. my room never goes above 78 in the winter, 85 seems excessive if not almost dangerous.


So what's the difference between a super worm and a meal worm??


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## david booth (Jan 15, 2017)

darkness975 said:


> Not really.  90% of the time I give them all crickets because that is what I have always available (I have a cricket tank).  Occasionally I'll throw a mealworm larvae or roach in there but I don't do it regularly just because I'm lazy.
> 
> Regarding your question about if an adult mealworm beetle could hurt a scorpion all I can say is I have never tried it but I would rather not take that risk.  Would not want it to bite/injure the scorpion or have the scorpion hurt its stinger.


YeH I see what you mean I might buy a few tubs of meal worms and keep them In A container and see if I can get some darkling beetles but I won't use the beetles as food I'm Interested In the metamorphosis


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## Red Eunice (Jan 15, 2017)

david booth said:


> So what's the difference between a super worm and a meal worm??


Superworm: Zoophobus morio
Mealworm: Tenebrio molitor
Both are the larval stage of a Darkling Beetle species. Prior to morphing into a beetle the Zoophobus morio is larger in size. Some keepers will feed larvae to quickly fatten up an invert after a molt. Crush the head prior to feeding as they have a tendency to burrow rather quickly.


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## david booth (Jan 15, 2017)

Red Eunice said:


> Superworm: Zoophobus morio
> Mealworm: Tenebrio molitor
> Both are the larval stage of a Darkling Beetle species. Prior to morphing into a beetle the Zoophobus morio is larger in size. Some keepers will feed larvae to quickly fatten up an invert after a molt. Crush the head prior to feeding as they have a tendency to burrow rather quickly.


Thanks dude I've just bought some morios so I'll try a feed tonight. I've just taken some pics to try to get an idea of sexing


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## david booth (Jan 15, 2017)

I know you shouldn't pick them up by the tail  it the smaller one would not sit still in the tub so I kinda had to first and last time just to get a good picture of the pestines.


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## Red Eunice (Jan 15, 2017)

david booth said:


> Thanks dude I've just bought some morios so I'll try a feed tonight. I've just taken some pics to try to get an idea of sexing


 Looks to be a female!


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## Venom1080 (Jan 15, 2017)

david booth said:


> So what's the difference between a super worm and a meal worm??


superworms are like 5x bigger.


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## david booth (Jan 15, 2017)

Red Eunice said:


> Looks to be a female!


Both of them?? Thanks it for the info


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## david booth (Jan 15, 2017)

T


Venom1080 said:


> superworms are like 5x bigger.[/QUOTE
> Thanks matey I bought some earlier on to feed them tomorrow.


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## Chris LXXIX (Jan 15, 2017)

darkness975 said:


> I am not sure what a "wario worm"


This:






As for the "worms", once Wario eaten the wrong piece of meat :-/


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## david booth (Jan 15, 2017)

Chris LXXIX said:


> This:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lmao cheers dude I've sussed it out now they're "morio worms" not worio lol my bad!!

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Chris LXXIX (Jan 15, 2017)

david booth said:


> Lmao cheers dude I've sussed it out now they're "morio worms" not worio lol my bad!!


Yup, figured that, man... couldn't resist because I live for those things


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## david booth (Jan 15, 2017)

Chris LXXIX said:


> Yup, figured that, man... couldn't resist because I live for those things


Me to lol I'm new here so I'll wait a few days before I start winding people up . What animals do you keep??

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Chris LXXIX (Jan 15, 2017)

^ 20 inverts at the moment (19 T's, 1 centipede). Had scorpions in the past (almost 23 years ago). 4 cats :-s


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## david booth (Jan 15, 2017)

Chris LXXIX said:


> ^ 20 inverts at the moment (19 T's, 1 centipede). Had scorpions in the past (almost 23 years ago). 4 cats :-s


Wow big collection!! what's your favorite??


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## Chris LXXIX (Jan 15, 2017)

david booth said:


> Wow big collection!! what's your favorite??


The *Goddess *0.1_ Pelinobius muticus _PBUH (Peace Be Upon Her) 

but I love also my _Scolopendra subspinipes_, she gave birth to 25 badass babies recently :-s


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## david booth (Jan 15, 2017)

Chris LXXIX said:


> The *Goddess *0.1_ Pelinobius muticus _PBUH (Peace Be Upon Her)
> 
> but I love also my _Scolopendra subspinipes_, she gave birth to 25 badass babies recently :-s


I'd love a spider but to be honest I've not really ventured into centipedes , aren't they super aggressive at everything ?? Congrats on The brood dude lol

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Chris LXXIX (Jan 15, 2017)

david booth said:


> I'd love a spider but to be honest I've not really ventured into centipedes , aren't they super aggressive at everything ?? Congrats on The brood dude lol


They were 25, but one died :-/
They're already "living" in a new home, I've packed and shipped those to a local breeder. Yeah, indeed, ah ah, they (centipedes, especially the Asian ones) are quite defensive, _really _unpredictable, loaded with a powerful venom and escape masters, to the point that IMO OW's T's are childrens crying to their chubby pissed off Mom for a candy, if compared


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## david booth (Jan 15, 2017)

Chris LXXIX said:


> They were 25, but one died :-/
> They're already "living" in a new home, I've packed and shipped those to a local breeder. Yeah, indeed, ah ah, they (centipedes, especially the Asian ones) are quite defensive, _really _unpredictable, loaded with a powerful venom and escape masters, to the point that IMO OW's T's are childrens crying to their chubby pissed off Mom for a candy, if compared


So what spider did you start with then Chris??


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## Chris LXXIX (Jan 15, 2017)

david booth said:


> So what spider did you start with then Chris??


My first _Theraphosidae _was a classic: a _G.rosea_, back then in 1992, that turned male obviously, lol. I was a teen back then. 
Today I have mostly NW considered intermediate and OW's (only Africans at the moment, had Asians prior).


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## david booth (Jan 15, 2017)

Chris LXXIX said:


> My first _Theraphosidae _was a classic: a _G.rosea_, back then in 1992, that turned male obviously, lol. I was a teen back then.
> Today I have mostly NW considered intermediate and OW's (only Africans at the moment, had Asians prior).


Don't African and Asian need Very similar requirements?? I've been thinking of getting Chile rose or curly haired ?? Once my scorpions start breeding that is


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## Chris LXXIX (Jan 15, 2017)

david booth said:


> Don't African and Asian need Very similar requirements?? I've been thinking of getting Chile rose or curly haired ?? Once my scorpions start breeding that is


Not all the Africans _Theraphosidae _require the same care... you can't, for instance, keep a genus _Hysterocrates _on a bone dry substrate like you would with an adult genus _Ceratogyrus _ones. And not every Asian require a moist substrate, for that _M.balfouri _are Asians, but they need a dry set up :-s

Anyway, in general, Asian _Theraphosidae _needs a more humid environment rather than, again in general, 'Baboon' T's.

---

Being you I would buy directly a female (screw slings, ah ah )_ G.pulchripes_ or a _G.pulchra_, they're great. Or a _C.cyaneopubescens_, if you don't mind a bit of speed. Or _A.geniculata_, frankly I don't view those as "T's not suitable for beginners" like many others here.


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## david booth (Jan 15, 2017)

Ahhhhh


Chris LXXIX said:


> Not all the Africans _Theraphosidae _require the same care... you can't, for instance, keep a genus _Hysterocrates _on a bone dry substrate like you would with an adult genus _Ceratogyrus _ones. And not every Asian require a moist substrate, for that _M.balfouri _are Asians, but they need a dry set up :-s
> 
> Anyway, in general, Asian _Theraphosidae _needs a more humid environment rather than, again in general, 'Baboon' T's.
> 
> ...


Aaaaaah ok I'll keep my eyes open thanks matey. What size terririum is good for a small turantula ??


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## Chris LXXIX (Jan 15, 2017)

david booth said:


> Ahhhhh
> 
> Aaaaaah ok I'll keep my eyes open thanks matey. What size terririum is good for a small turantula ??


I work in little with slings, so those deli cups are fine just like those crickets enclosures or, for arboreals/burrowers, those "Oz - enter the number" something <-- ah ah, I don't use inches/Oz etc 

For juve/adults depends... but in general a XL KK, or a glass enclosure (like the ones available here in Europe) are perfect. My _Pelinobius_ _muticus_, since she's huge, is housed in a XXL one :-s


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## Christianb96 (Jan 15, 2017)

Mats can be dangerous underneath the tank if your pet burrows as they become closer to the heat (I thought this was a relevant post if not please ignore :$)


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## david booth (Jan 16, 2017)

Chris LXXIX said:


> I work in little with slings, so those deli cups are fine just like those crickets enclosures or, for arboreals/burrowers, those "Oz - enter the number" something <-- ah ah, I don't use inches/Oz etc
> 
> For juve/adults depends... but in general a XL KK, or a glass enclosure (like the ones available here in Europe) are perfect. My _Pelinobius_ _muticus_, since she's huge, is housed in a XXL one :-s


Sweet thanks man they done need huge tanks from what I've seen/heard I've seen alot of people keep a large adult in like a 450x300


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## david booth (Jan 16, 2017)

Christianb96 said:


> Mats can be dangerous underneath the tank if your pet burrows as they become closer to the heat (I thought this was a relevant post if not please ignore :$)


Yeah it is the right post dude  I've moved them onto the back and side now
They're on the corner where theyre cuddling up lmao


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## Bad azz angel 51 (Jan 22, 2017)

Hi just came across this  finally found a forum with other uk peeps i habe a question if u dont mind me asking on this having read some invaluable info here i,m getting a scorpion my first having had snakes reptiles n spiders for well over 30 yrs now i wondered if a 18x18x24 in exco terra would be good for an asian scorp ?? Pretty sure it would be but as scorps are new to me lol always better to double check oh n on the mat debate ive always used mats with my t,s ) if that helps


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## david booth (Jan 22, 2017)

Bad azz angel 51 said:


> Hi just came across this  finally found a forum with other uk peeps i habe a question if u dont mind me asking on this having read some invaluable info here i,m getting a scorpion my first having had snakes reptiles n spiders for well over 30 yrs now i wondered if a 18x18x24 in exco terra would be good for an asian scorp ?? Pretty sure it would be but as scorps are new to me lol always better to double check oh n on the mat debate ive always used mats with my t,s ) if that helps


Hey,
Congrats on getting you scorpion. Always nice to hear people from the UK involved in the hobby. That tank would be fine. Because they're burrow dwellers they don't need huge amounts of room. When hungry they're just as likely to sit at the mouth of their den and wait for something to crawl past. They do venture out at nighttime between 12 - 5. Well mine do anyway. Can you post a pic of your tank. Heat pads are fine and easy to get hold of. I found that I need two, a 21w and a 15w mat. Placed on the side. Don't place it underneath because they dig down to cool off. If you want them to have more room or you want more decor you could always rotate your tank.


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## Bad azz angel 51 (Jan 22, 2017)

david booth said:


> Hey,
> Congrats on getting you scorpion. Always nice to hear people from the UK involved in the hobby. That tank would be fine. Because they're burrow dwellers they don't need huge amounts of room. When hungry they're just as likely to sit at the mouth of their den and wait for something to crawl past. They do venture out at nighttime between 12 - 5. Well mine do anyway. Can you post a pic of your tank. Heat pads are fine and easy to get hold of. I found that I need two, a 21w and a 15w mat. Placed on the side. Don't place it underneath because they dig down to cool off. If you want them to have more room or you want more decor you could always rotate your tank.


I,ll post it but its in need of cleaning lmao been sat empty since my baby corns out grew it over two yrs ago its a decent size one tbh i keep crickets in one bigger as i have a gecko to ive got tons of heat mats and decor accumulated over the years at present i have 4 corns a boa and a gecko  all spoilt i only ever use mats on the side  with my t,s anyway  so standard set up it sounds  all i gotta do is steam clean said viv and set it up. Wont let me upload it Says its to big but its exo terra 45x45x60cm lol or 18x182ft in inches


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## david booth (Jan 22, 2017)

Bad azz angel 51 said:


> I,ll post it but its in need of cleaning lmao been sat empty since my baby corns out grew it over two yrs ago its a decent size one tbh i keep crickets in one bigger as i have a gecko to ive got tons of heat mats and decor accumulated over the years at present i have 4 corns a boa and a gecko  all spoilt i only ever use mats on the side  with my t,s anyway  so standard set up it sounds  all i gotta do is steam clean said viv and set it up


Yeah thats it and you ready to go. Do you use coco Brick's for the gecko ??if so that's fine for the scorpion aswell but you need alot more than you would for a tree dweller like a gecko


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## Bad azz angel 51 (Jan 22, 2017)

david booth said:


> Yeah thats it and you ready to go. Do you use coco Brick's for the gecko ??if so that's fine for the scorpion aswell but you need alot more than you would for a tree dweller like a gecko


Eco earth yes loose packed much easier lol gotta love ebay  my geckos not a tree dwellers shes a lepoard gecko  added pic of her set up


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## Bad azz angel 51 (Jan 22, 2017)

Btw on the lighting thing an idea for u that i use for my gecko which doesnt need heat light an exo terrs day & night led they are awsome perfect when u dont need heat


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## david booth (Jan 22, 2017)

Bad azz angel 51 said:


> Btw on the lighting thing an idea for u that i use for my gecko which doesnt need heat light an exo terrs day & night led they are awsome perfect when u dont need heat


Thanks alot I'll have a look. Pets at home do EXO stuff I'm going there now lol. That's setup is really nice. The only thing you have to change for a scorp. Is add four inches of substrate and add a shallower water dish the the kind of dish you want is one that the scorp can stand up In without its belly touching the water. Just to be on the safe side. I've never kept geckos I thought they were always hiding in plants and stuff lol my bad. And also the light, scorps hate light  at night time if you want to see them exploring and hunting at night you need a infared bulb or a black lighf. Absolutely no uv bulbs it suposidely blinds them. But I've never used one so I can't confirm.


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## Bad azz angel 51 (Jan 22, 2017)

I,m house bound now so ebay is perfect used to work at pets at home back in 96 lol very useful place the exo light is moonlight  so mimiks the day night cycle at a touch of a button very good at night cant use it on my scorp viv lol cos it attaches on the outside of the tank not in and tops sealed and covered wouod u recomend a night light then ? Leo geckos are nocturnal they climb a little bit but not high up  got my lad cleaning out the viv ready for me to steam clean will get my scorp from the spider shop where i have got all my ts from over the years  excited mow lol 51 n excited over a new scorp i need to get out more


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## david booth (Jan 22, 2017)

L


Bad azz angel 51 said:


> I,m house bound now so ebay is perfect used to work at pets at home back in 96 lol very useful place the exo light is moonlight  so mimiks the day night cycle at a touch of a button very good at night cant use it on my scorp viv lol cos it attaches on the outside of the tank not in and tops sealed and covered wouod u recomend a night light then ? Leo geckos are nocturnal they climb a little bit but not high up  got my lad cleaning out the viv ready for me to steam clean will get my scorp from the spider shop where i have got all my ts from over the years  excited mow lol 51 n excited over a new scorp i need to get out more


Lol they're dead Interesting id have hundreds of TS and scorps I love em. I never really went into night lights but I know you can get a black light for them or a deep infared light they both would be fine. One thing I would also include is some sphagnum moss or any moss to be fair it boasts humidity and also well help massively with moulting and breeding and stuff.


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## Bad azz angel 51 (Jan 22, 2017)

Ok cool yes black light it is for night not that i,m down stairs at night mind , might well get the same light at as i have for gecko if they dint need the heat from them either ,  got moss to always gecko needs it my corn snakes got a jungle light green very effective it is just need to get in ebay for some nice backing its got foil on at min boring lol like my sets up to look as intersting as i can any idea on that ? Cn u put a pic of ur scorp set up on for me please


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## david booth (Jan 22, 2017)

Bad azz angel 51 said:


> Ok cool yes black light it is for night not that i,m down stairs at night mind , might well get the same light at as i have for gecko if they dint need the heat from them either ,  got moss to always gecko needs it my corn snakes got a jungle light green very effective it is just need to get in ebay for some nice backing its got foil on at min boring lol like my sets up to look as intersting as i can any idea on that ? Cn u put a pic of ur scorp set up on for me please


Yeah can do people sometimes get polystyrene sheets and carve them and paint them to look like rocks but your scorp will climb on it and of they fall of it may hurt a little.


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## Bad azz angel 51 (Jan 22, 2017)

Wow thats stunning  when mines all set up i,ll post a pic all cleaned now ready stuff i do need wil be here thursday substrate etc just gotta work out some kind of low light its in a dark corner lol


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## david booth (Jan 22, 2017)

Bad azz angel 51 said:


> Wow thats stunning  when mines all set up i,ll post a pic all cleaned now ready stuff i do need wil be here thursday substrate etc just gotta work out some kind of low light its in a dark corner lol


Thanks alot,  I might change it round as they don't have anything to climb up. Maybe a big piece of wood from either side. My tank hasn't got any fittings for a light to be fixed to it so I just have three led "push" lights from wilkos that run on batteries it's bright enough for me to watch them and it doesn't bother them if I put them on while there out at night.


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## Bad azz angel 51 (Jan 22, 2017)

Oo thats a cool idea its harder to fix lights in a glass tank i can run a cable thru mine as i did when it had the baby corns in as its got a mesh top with board over it makes a useful shelf lol but those lights are low level enough thats a very clever idea


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## david booth (Jan 22, 2017)

Bad azz angel 51 said:


> Oo thats a cool idea its harder to fix lights in a glass tank i can run a cable thru mine as i did when it had the baby corns in as its got a mesh top with board over it makes a useful shelf lol but those lights are low level enough thats a very clever idea


 the ones I've got have a sticky back on them aswell. So I can stick them to the glass where ever I like. The mesh top might be a problem for humidity??


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## Bad azz angel 51 (Jan 22, 2017)

Its covered nicely with wood  used as a shelf so no issues there


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