# Dangerous scorpions



## millernin37 (Apr 12, 2011)

I have a very curious two-year old son and I was wondering what scorpion species should and should not be in the same house as aforementioned child. I have been doing a little research online and have found a few species that are considered dangerous enough to kill a small child but most of the information is conflicting. So, could someone please tell me what scorpions have the capacity to kill a small child... also include specifics, such as aggression, ability to climb (and therefore escape cages) and venom potency. 
Thanks.


----------



## Roblicious (Apr 12, 2011)

Scorpions cant climb glass or anything like that, you will see them try when first introduced. They can however lift themselves up pretty high with their tails.

If you got a lid in a high enough location + a lock on it you shuold be fine. Then again I dont have a 2 year old, but I know they can and will get into anything/everything.
You can invest in a exo terra enclosure and buy a lock for the front, or a sliding top aquarium that has a slot for a lock as well.

All scorpions have venom, and can be deadly if the child is allergic, the most dangerous ones would be the death stalker, somewhat rare but available in the states.

The emperor scorpions have large claws and would rather pinch then sting and their sting is equivalent to a bee sting, they are good starter scorpions, are rather impressive looking, and very hardy. The most docile of them all.

remember scorpions are meant for viewing and not handling especially with kids.


----------



## millernin37 (Apr 12, 2011)

Of course, our child does not have access to any of the animals and they are all locked in a closet. However, we have had a few escapees. I know that all are potentially dangerous, especially to a child, but I was wondering which were definitely fatal (as shown with statistical data). The only species I have found to be fatal to children (gathered from meager internet sources) were A australis, L quinquestriatus, C sculpturatus (data that confirms this is hard to find), T serrulatus, A crassicanda and A bicolor. Is there documentation to support the assertion that any of these species can kill a child, excluding any allergic reaction? 
Thanks for the help.

---------- Post added at 02:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:44 PM ----------

Also, what are some "inescapable" scorpion enclosures that would still provide sufficient air-flow and humidity levels? I know there are no perfect enclosures but some types are better than others...


----------



## Roblicious (Apr 12, 2011)

millernin37 said:


> Of course, our child does not have access to any of the animals and they are all locked in a closet. However, we have had a few escapees. I know that all are potentially dangerous, especially to a child, but I was wondering which were definitely fatal (as shown with statistical data). The only species I have found to be fatal to children (gathered from meager internet sources) were A australis, L quinquestriatus, C sculpturatus (data that confirms this is hard to find), T serrulatus, A crassicanda and A bicolor. Is there documentation to support the assertion that any of these species can kill a child, excluding any allergic reaction?
> Thanks for the help.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 02:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:44 PM ----------
> ...


The scorpions you listed are on the dangerous list, most are part of the buthid family so any scorpion in that family should be avoided if thats what you are worried about, the C sculp (Az bark scorpion) is not rare at all btw.

I would say anything 3/5  or above on the venom scale would be dangerous for a child besides the alergic reaction factor.

The 'inescapable' enclosures dont limit airflow or anything like that, they look just like terrariums, except the lid can slide in and out and has a slot for a pad lock to go in. I think these ones are made by zilla? about 30 bucks for a 5 gallon and comes with a lid, which by the way is plenty for 1 large scorpion depending on the aesthetics you put in it.

The exo terras have a lid on top that have 4 clips to keep it locked on and it has 2 glass 'doors' on the front with a handle lock on them as well as a hole for a exo terra pad lock. I have 2 of these and I really like them.


----------



## scorpionmom (Apr 12, 2011)

All scorpions on a "venom scale" that are 3 and up are considered potentially dangerous (to anyone), 'severe envenomating' for a 4, and 'has caused human fatalites' for a 5. It does matter if your child is allergic. Other things that matter are body weight, amount injected, the health of the victim, etc.

The potentially dangerous scorpion genera are Leiurus, Androctonus, Parabuthus, Centruroides, and Tityus. Not all of the Centruroides would be dangerous for a healthy adult, but all would be dangerous for a child.

Other genera that are considered dangerous are Buthus, Hottentotta, Mesobuthus. I personally would not normally consider these venomous, but for your child, yes.

In my opinion, all scorpions would be potentially dangerous to your child.

Thanks for asking. I tried to help the best I could. Will have a better answer later, I am short on time now. All I can say is, good you asked and good luck!


----------



## AzJohn (Apr 12, 2011)

If you are worried about keeping scorpion with small children I'd avoid all species in the Buthidae. THis picture link has all the genus in them. http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/gallery/browseimages.php?c=79



If I had small children I'd set my collection in a secure room with locked doors. I'd also set a up a system of redundency that would keep any escapees in a secondary containers.


----------



## Roblicious (Apr 12, 2011)

Anything from the Pandinus (Emperor and red claw are the easiest to obtain), Heterometrus (Asian forest scorpion, they are more aggressive then emperor, but same care), and probably Hadrurus (Desert hairy is the common name) families would be 'safe' if you take the right precautions. All of their venom levels are 2 or below, mild bee stings usually.


----------



## BQC123 (Apr 12, 2011)

AzJohn said:


> If I had small children I'd set my collection in a secure room with locked doors. I'd also set a up a system of redundency that would keep any escapees in a secondary containers.


Quite honestly, if you are keeping anything even remotely dangerous, even the inevitable escapee is unacceptable. I feel the above suggestions should be followed for any of your inverts if there are small children in the house.  Don't take any chances with kids.


----------



## Roblicious (Apr 12, 2011)

http://www.reptilerapture.net/imagelib/sitebuilder/misc/show_image.html?linkedwidth=560&linkpath=http://reptilerapture.startlogic.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/.pond/5.5gcrittercage.jpg.w560h560.jpg&target=_self&title=ZILLA%20CRITTER%20CAGE%205.5GAL

http://www.reptilerapture.net/imagelib/sitebuilder/misc/show_image.html?linkedwidth=560&linkpath=http://reptilerapture.startlogic.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/PT2600_EX_Terrarium_30x30cm_PRD_INT.jpg&target=_self&title=EXO%20TERRA%20PT-2600

both have locking mechanisms in the front or top


----------



## Avery (Apr 13, 2011)

I have a 5 gallon of the first terrarium that Roblicious posted. I can vouch for it. It's a simple, well put together enclosure.


----------



## Michiel (Apr 13, 2011)

millernin37 said:


> I have a very curious two-year old son and I was wondering what scorpion species should and should not be in the same house as aforementioned child. I have been doing a little research online and have found a few species that are considered dangerous enough to kill a small child but most of the information is conflicting. So, could someone please tell me what scorpions have the capacity to kill a small child... also include specifics, such as aggression, ability to climb (and therefore escape cages) and venom potency.
> Thanks.


You should avoid all species from the family Buthidae, and probably also some of the Heterometrus spp. 
I also have two kids under 3 running around, and I have all my scorpions in plastic enclosures, which are inside glass terraria, so even when they miraculously would escape from their plastic enclosure, they are still captive inside the glass terrarium. Besides this, my scorpionroom is always locked and the kids can only be in the room with me when they want to look. 
I keep highly venomous species and because of this also the local fire and police department know that I keep venomous scorpions. 
So, what I am trying to say is that I have very high safety standards...
Keeping scorpions inside the enclosure and your kids outside of the enclosure does the trick.

I don't have the time to discuss every single species in detail with you, so that's why I would just avoid the whole Buthidae family, OR make a safe scorpionroom, with safe enclosures, and keep the kids out.


----------



## Chrome69 (Apr 13, 2011)

I good way to look through lower toxic species to keep is look into the DWA laws in a country like England. They don't allow specific species based mostly on toxicity, though not saying that all the species they allow aren't dangerous to a point but at least it lists the more dangerous species and genus' that they do not allow there.


----------



## John Bokma (Apr 13, 2011)

I have a 4 yo and an almost 1 yo. The 4 yo knows that scorpions hurt since I have educated her from a very early age. When she was 2 yo we lived in an apartment that now and then got walk in Centruroides flavopictus flavopictus so I *had* to educate her anyway (my wife got stung 4 times over several years).

To me there are two options: #1 educated your child(ren) very early and keep the scorpions in a separate room, in safe enclosures and be prepared that something can go wrong.

Or: #2 get rid of all the species that could be a risk. If you want to play it really safe this would mean getting rid of most if not all scorpions since your child(ren) might be allergic to the venom.

I prefer #1 (for the same reason I think creating a too protected environment is always harmful in the end)






(The bandages are to cover cat scratches).

She's more into tarantula's though 

[YOUTUBE]mnhhmlF5Zf0[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## llamastick (Apr 13, 2011)

As long as the exposed sides of the tank are taller than the scorpion's outstretched (including tail) length, it cannot escape. Ever. Even a short tank should be inescapable as long as the lid is secured/weighted.


----------



## Irene B. Smithi (Apr 13, 2011)

millernin37 said:


> Of course, our child does not have access to any of the animals and they are all locked in a closet. However, we have had a few escapees. I know that all are potentially dangerous, especially to a child, but I was wondering which were definitely fatal (as shown with statistical data). The only species I have found to be fatal to children (gathered from meager internet sources) were A australis, L quinquestriatus, C sculpturatus (data that confirms this is hard to find), T serrulatus, A crassicanda and A bicolor. Is there documentation to support the assertion that any of these species can kill a child, excluding any allergic reaction?
> Thanks for the help.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 02:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:44 PM ----------
> ...





Roblicious said:


> The scorpions you listed are on the dangerous list, most are part of the buthid family so any scorpion in that family should be avoided if thats what you are worried about, the C sculp (Az bark scorpion) is not rare at all btw.
> 
> I would say anything 3/5  or above on the venom scale would be dangerous for a child besides the alergic reaction factor.
> 
> ...


I live with C. Sculpts... catch them in my house and yard.  Also keep a colony of them.   (I do also keep other scorpions and some nasty tarantulas (OBTs that's about as nasty as I'll get with my Ts)) also I have a two year old and an seven year old.....  


I don't recommend anyone starting off with a hot,  C. Sculpts on up....  if you want a good starter that impressive I would go with a Desert Hairy or an Emperor scorpion...  

ONE thing I will note.  even with the best of lock down and keep it away from the baby.... they can and will find a way.  you turn your back for one minute and they are up climbing, trying to pick a lock, will knock the cage over....  anything you bring into your house be ready to deal with the results.  

You seem to be interested on stats and all the specs on each of the hots.  try looking up the LD50 table on them, also care sheets, they should give more info....  best of luck.


----------



## Sir Aculeus (Apr 14, 2011)

I keep the baddest of the bad. A. australis, A. bicolor, L.  quinquestriatus and some other lesser potent scorps. This is how I keep my scorps in a house with children.

1- They are all in quality acrylic cages and locked so if they fall or get knocked over the cage/tank will not shatter open like glass. 
2- I keep my scorps in my home office which locks automatically and will only open with my thumb print. I have also installed a door closer so it will shut on its own.(those locks arent as pricey as one might think)

I would advise keeping any venomous pet locked up in another room no matter how mild the venom might be. You never know how a child's body will react. Its the only way IMO to be 100% safe.


----------

