# Funnel Web Spideys



## Ephesians (Dec 25, 2002)

Does anyone by chance know of a good caresheet for a funnel web spidey?  I recently aquired one and am trying to meet its needs at best.  This is the most fiesty little thing I have EVERY seen.  If it appears to be stressed out for too much longer I will release it somewhere...I just don't want to let it go where I found it or anywhere around here due to conditions and pesticides.  Thanks.

Marcus


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## Arachniphile (Dec 25, 2002)

What kind of funnel web?


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## Steve Nunn (Dec 26, 2002)

Hi Marcus,
               You found it?? All funnel-webs (with the exception of Macrothele spp.) come from Australia. See that one to the left, Hadronyche formidabilis, biggest of the funnel-webs (60mm thorax and abdomen) and real, REAL mean. If you look closely you'll see the venom dripping from the fangs. I've kept Atrax robustus (Sydney Funnel-web), Hadronyche formidabilis (Northern Tree Funnel-web), Hadronyche infensa (Fraser Island Funnel-web, the most venomous spider known, the wanderers don't even come close) and some Hadronyche spp.

They'll live happily on peat moss, with a little sphagnum or vermiculite. The true funnel-webs like it cold, a lot colder then any theraphosid anyway(5 degrees celcius colder at least). They all eat like pigs and nothing beats watching one of these nasties dragging a prey item through their lair.

Cheers,
Steve


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## Pyrdacor (Dec 26, 2002)

You found the funnel web in your location? Just as already has been said, these spiders originally come from Australia. Hope you know that most of them are venomous to the extreme. You have to have a serum in case you get hurt. For my person I wouldn't keep that spiders. 
Guess you think about it another way, but be careful


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## Steve Nunn (Dec 26, 2002)

Good point. These spiders are potentially lethal and if needed, funnel-web antivenine is the ONLY sure fire way of slowing the venom down. It is brief and if lethal, kills within 24hrs. If you make it past the first day, you'll be right  

Here's the top five or so most venomous species on the planet (yes, all funnel-webs):

Hadronyche formidabilis and Hadronyche infensa are the top of the 
lethal list.

Hadronyche formidabilis - Venom reported as approximately 
equal in toxicity (both male and female) as male Atrax 
robustus venom, has caused similar cases of envenomation in 
man (no definite fatalities), and therefore probably 
contains a robustoxin-like component. (Sutherland 1983) 

Hadronyche infensa - Venom reported as approximately equal 
or greater in toxicity (females and males) as male Atrax 
robustus venom, and therefore may contain a robustoxin-like 
component. (Sutherland 1983) 

Followed by: Hadronyche versuta

Versutoxin (from male and female Hadronyche versuta venom.)

Structurally very close to robustoxin, a protein neurotoxin, 
MW 4852, 42 residues, highly basic, pI >9, 4 disulphide 
bridges. 8 residues different to robustoxin, and considered 
conservative changes. LD50 (SC newborn mice) 0.22 mg/kg. 
Versutoxin alone causes almost typical syndrome of 
envenomation in primates and man of whole male Atrax 
robustus venom, the difference being the sustained 
hypotension typical of robustoxin, which is not seen with 
either versutoxin or whole Hadronyche versuta venom. Strong 
antigenic cross-reaction between robustoxin and versutoxin. 
(Sheumack et al, 1984) 

Then by: Hadronyche cerberea

And so on, down the list of all the Hadronyche spp. (about 14 or so).

Information originally from Dr Robert Raven (2002).

Cheers,
Steve


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## Steve Nunn (Dec 26, 2002)

Oops, missed Atrax robustus, it's number 3.

Steve


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## Wade (Dec 26, 2002)

There are North American spiders that are popularly known as funnel weaving spiders, I'm assuming it's one of these that he has. They're often called "grass spiders". The family name is Agelenidae, I think, unless it's changed since Levi + Levi's book.

Aren't there funnel web myglamorphs in the US? They're supposed to be pretty small, though.

Wade


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## Steve Nunn (Dec 26, 2002)

Hi Wade,
             They would be the purseweb spiders, from the Atypidae, or the folding door spiders, from the Antrodiaetidae. Cute little mygales for sure, but not really a "funnel-web" as such. Still, they carry one large set of Chelicerae with oversized fangs. I'll see what I can dig up about the venom components of thes families.

Cheers,
Steve


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## Arachniphile (Dec 26, 2002)

As stated by Wade the family Agelenidae are defined as "funnel weavers" in North America.  The genus Tegenaria is the one I am most familliar with.  T. agrestis is the infamous Hobo Spider and is quite common here in the PacWest.  There are about 10 or more species of Tegenaria in North America.  

I do not know if a distinction is meant between Funnel Web and Funnel Weaver as common names vary so drastically.

Without further information on your spider Marcus it will be difficult to give you reliable advise on how to house your new spider.  Moist substrate and a water dish, a few crickets, a mild heat source, and some places to hide are about the best advise I can give you.


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## Alex S. (Dec 26, 2002)

*U.S. Funnel-web mygalomorphs*

There actually are mygalomorph funnel-webs in the U.S.A. Those of the genus Euagrus (Texas area), and those of the genus Hexura, such as Hexura fulva of the Pacific coast. The funnel-web spiders of these genuses get no more than .5" to .7". There is also the North American Microhexura which gets no more than .1".

Alex S.


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## Steve Nunn (Dec 26, 2002)

*Re: U.S. Funnel-web mygalomorphs*

Hi Alex,
           I guess it would depend on how loosely you use the name. 

The genera Hexurella, Hexura, Megahexura and Mecicobothrium are from a different family to the true funnel-webs, the Hexathelidae. They come from the family Mecicobothriidae and differ from the Hexathelidae and most Dipluridae in the longitudinal fovea and from Microhexura in the presence of abdominal sclerites and long pseudosegmented apical segment of the posterior lateral spineretts. 

The Mecicobothriidae do not possess the active neurotoxin known as robustoxin or virsutoxin present in the true funnel-webs (Hexathelidae). This toxin is what makes Hexathelids so venomous to man (proven in LD50 tests by Dr Struan Sutherland)and made the funnel-web (particularly the Sydney funnel-web)so famous.

You could also call any mygale a tarantula and be just as close to the mark as calling a Mecicobothriidae a funnel-web. Only the Theraphosidae are termed tarantulas, only the Hexathelidae are termed "true" funnel-webs. No other families can really use these common names and to do so only confuses the masses.

I'm not saying you are incorrect, I'm simply stating that the common names that are applied to most spiders are hazy when used to describe them in any fashion. One might consider a Mecicobothriidae a potentially lethal spider when in fact the spider is relatively harmless.

I do however admit that the two families are morphologically close, just not the same. I say this in the same sense that a Barychelid could be termed a tarantula.

Cheers,
Steve


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## Alex S. (Dec 26, 2002)

Hi Steve, yes, I agree, but sometimes the Mecicobothriidae are still placed in the Dipluridae/Nemesiidae and are considered true funnel-web mygalomorphs, but for the most part they are seperate, because of the six spinnerets factor of the Hexura.

Alex S.


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## Steve Nunn (Dec 26, 2002)

Hi Alex,
           I see your point, but, the Mecicobothriidae are their own family and to place them anywhere near the Hexathelidae, Dipluridae or Nemesiidae goes against the laws of systematics (namely Cladism and Phylogeny). That's why they have their own family, it has been scientifically proven that they differ morphologically from other mygales enough to have their own family(let alone subfamily,genus or species!). If they are placed (wrongly) in the Nemesiidae or Dipluridae then the family name Mecicobothriidae (a scientifically proven family name) is negated. This effectively takes us all a step backward in trying to figure out correctly the intrafamilial relationships between these spiders. I admit this is a problem caused by enthusiasts who like to coin a quick common name (in this case, a name that is already used by the most venomous family of spider) rather then create one more suited to the spider.

Thankfully, the scientists are out there to correct any of these errors, although it is fast becoming an uphill battle.

Cheers,
Steve


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## Ephesians (Dec 26, 2002)

Dear Lord, too much latin for me...lol.  Yes, it was quite a shock when I found it and I cannot tell you how EXTREMELY violent this little bugger is!  He has yet to eat, but I'm assuming more than likely it is because he is adapting to his new home and plus I have been keeping him with my Ts in a warmer climate, which I just removed him from.  I have never seen a more aggressive spider and the funny thing is whenever I first found him I was playing with him.  I let him crawl onto my hand and wander around for awhile until I put him into a jar.  Hey I was on Holy Ground so I wasn't skeered...lol.  Thanks for the info.  I'll try to get a decent pic whenever I can to see if we can clear up all summaries.  Thanks so much. 

Marcus


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## Alex S. (Dec 26, 2002)

Hey Steve, yes, the Mecicobothriidae are most definetely of their own family. They are the closest mygalomorphs in the U.S. to the true funnel-web mygalomorphs. There are still major anatomical differences though.

Alex S.


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## Ephesians (Dec 29, 2002)

*Pics!*

Here's some pics that will hopefully help out a lot.  Taking them was quite an adventure, but besides the massive strikes...the spider was very cooraperative.


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## Ephesians (Dec 29, 2002)

Pretty in....red?


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## Ephesians (Dec 29, 2002)

"Strike" a pose..


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## Ephesians (Dec 29, 2002)

Glamour baby, it's all you~!


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## Alex S. (Dec 29, 2002)

*Trapdoor (Ctenizidae)*

That is actually a male trapdoor spider (Family: Ctenizidae). Where exactly did you find it? The location helps alot in identifying the correct species. Looks very possible to be of the genus Bothriocyrtum.

Alex S.


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## Steve Nunn (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: Trapdoor (Ctenizidae)*



> _Originally posted by Alex S. _
> *That is actually a male trapdoor spider (Family: Ctenizidae). Where exactly did you find it? The location helps alot in identifying the correct species.
> 
> Alex S. *


I think you may be right Alex. It doesn't seem to have the long spinnerets, ruling out Hexathelidae (just in case it escaped from someone's collection, Nemesiidae, Dipluridae, Atypidae and Mecicobothriidae.

Any Migidae or Idiopidae or Cyrtaucheniidae in that area??

Steve


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## Ephesians (Dec 29, 2002)

It was caught in Waco, Texas.  About 2.5 hours North of Austin.  It was caught roaming about at night; slightly damp outside.  So the location is pretty much the Heart of Texas.  I'm not sure on what we have around here so I can't be any help there.  I thought at first it was a trapdoor spider but it didn't seem the match the pics (which were very few) with what he looked like.  Not to mention the little bugger must have been born in a barn cause he doesn't even use a door.  :}


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## Ephesians (Dec 29, 2002)

So how should I properly house him?   Cool climate?  Humidity high or low?  Substrate?  Fine china?


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## Alex S. (Dec 29, 2002)

*Ummidia*

Also very possible the spider could be of the genus Ummidia. That specimen looks very similar to the Ummidia.

Alex S.


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## Arachniphile (Dec 29, 2002)

The region is right for Myrmekiaphila sp.   Looks male to me, which would explain why he was wandering around.  Knowing how it builds it's burrow, and how it closes the opening would give better clues.  Thier habits differ from one to another.


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## Ephesians (Dec 29, 2002)

so far the burrow he has built is just a straight to the bottom tunnel, even in diameter, no extruded webbing, just a layer encasing the burrow and a small portion of the trimming around it.  No lid or top on the burrow, of course he doesn't have much to work with except moist soil and damp poss.  (not sure how those work...may be enough, you've got me on that one).  For a short time he had a cover over it but it was pure webbing that sort of "domed" over the top; a thin layer...I could still see inside for the most part.  Hope this helps a little.


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## Ephesians (Dec 29, 2002)

Are there any websites that someone may know of where I could research these guys?  My own searches have been pretty useless.


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## Wade (Dec 31, 2002)

*Re: Ummidia*



> _Originally posted by Alex S. _
> *Also very possible the spider could be of the genus Ummidia. That specimen looks very similar to the Ummidia.
> 
> Alex S. *


Looks a hell of alot like Ummidia to me, too...we have that genus in Va, and they look very much like that. 

I keep mine in a tall cylendrical container with peat and vemiculite as a substrate, just slightly moist. I mist the surface once a week or so to maintain the substrate moisture and feed 1-2 small crix a week.

Since that one is probably a mature male, he may not make his trapdoor, he may be more interested in wandering to seach for females, much as a mature male tarantula would.

Wade


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## Ephesians (Jan 1, 2003)

Yeah, he keeps the door wide open to whoever might show up at it...lol.  Should I let him go and pursue his flight of love?  The weather is at a decent 50-60 degrees this week and not too rainy.  He has only accepted one, maybe two crickets (can't remember) in my care...which has been since Thanksgiving.

Marcus


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## Alex S. (Jan 1, 2003)

*Ummidia*

The spider is probably an Ummidia sp. as they build their burrows in the wild often into the side of banks/hills with no door on the mouth of the burrow.

Alex S.


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## Ciphor (Mar 27, 2013)

Really cool old thread, Thanks Advan for sharing it. That black one is definitely Ummidia, "_saddle-like depression in outer surface of tibia of third leg is a distinctive feature_".

Agelenidae is commonly named "Funnel *weavers*" and of course Hexathelidae is commonly named "Funnel *web*".

Yes, I know I'm replying 10 years later  But it was a really good thread!

Reactions: Like 1


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