# Insects that can be kept with millipedes?



## raeanna (May 30, 2018)

I've recently become interested in setting up a millipede tank and started wondering today if there are any other insects that can be kept with them. I am looking at getting a few Ivory Millies and was thinking about Isopods as well. But... I feel like the below insects may eat the Isos and possibly baby millies. 
I am most interested in leaf bugs, stick bugs, or even mantis. But then the question of legality in CA arises... I can't find much information on them.


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## chanda (May 30, 2018)

I've kept assorted darkling beetles (_Eleodes sp._) in with millipedes (_Orthoporus ornatus_) with no problem - but all beetles and millipedes were collected from the same environment to begin with and had similar requirements. I've also kept ivory millipedes with isopods - but they were the big _Porcellio_ species that live out here in the canyons, not the dwarfs that are commonly kept as tank cleaners, and I suspect they were eating millipede eggs - and maybe even a few millipedes. I know they ate the biggest of the millipedes - but I'm not sure if she died first, and _then_ they ate her, or if she was molting or something and they took advantage, so I've moved the millipedes over to their own tank again. 

In the US, you need special (and very difficult to obtain) permits to keep non-native stick or leaf bugs, generally only available to zoos, museums, research institutions, and other establishments like that, but there are some native stick insects in California, so you could try finding/catching some of those. They're pretty small, though - not nearly as impressive as the exotics. They would not have a problem cohabitating with millipedes because they'd spend most of their time at the top of the enclosure, climbing on twigs or branches and eating leaves, while the millipedes would spend most of their time down in the substrate - but if the stick insects lay eggs, the eggs will be right down in the substrate where the millipedes could eat them. (I don't know if they _would_ eat them - I've never tried keeping them together.) Mantids are not too likely to try to eat your millipedes, particularly if they are well fed and if the millipedes aren't super small - besides which millipedes secrete defensive chemicals that make them taste and smell bad to potential predators - but any time you try keeping different species together, even if you don't have to worry about them eating each other, you have the added complication of making sure you meet the environmental requirements of all species involved (substrate, humidity, moisture, ventilation, temperature, etc.) which can be a little tricky.

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## davehuth (May 30, 2018)

I have a 20 gallon "millipede-centric" enclosure with a number of species. The trick is to give a a very generous depth of substrate, and include many nooks and crannies for critters to hide in. Most of my millipedes are Orthoporus, which will climb on structure and remain surface-active. So I have several levels of sticks, twisty wood pieces, hollowed out tubes of wood, etc., and deep substrate (about 9-ish inches).

In addition to my Orthoporus and a couple Narceus and Florida Ivories, I keep Halloween Hissing Cockroaches (males only, I don't want swarms of babies) and Gymnetis caseyi (Harlequin Beetles). 

The way I included the beetles has probably been a mistake. They are beautiful and active, and the adults don't bother anyone – but they have reproduced more than i expected. This has put more larvae crawling through the substrate (among the millipedes) than I'm comfortable with. I currently have the beetles separated and am slowly picking out grubs when I lure them near the surface. I plan to replace the Harlequin beetle population with males only. I'm also raising a couple dozen stag beetle larvae, and I'm sure I won't need to use all of the males I end up with for reproduction. So I plan to add the smaller males to the tank at the end of the summer and see how that works out.

I use springtails for a cleanup crew and they thrive in such a rich ecosystem. I also have included some small to medium Harvestmen as a successful experiment. They're cool looking and don't bother anyone, other than mites!

I would avoid all isopods. There is an ongoing discussion in the hobby about how to find a combination of millipede and isopod species that pose no risks, but the people I've spoken to with way more knowledge of isopods than I have all caution agains mixing isopods with millipedes. Good luck and update here what you end up trying!

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## Arthroverts (May 30, 2018)

I hear there is an invasive population of Exatosoma tiaratum in Roseville, which is right above where you live, although I only heard it from one person, so it may not be existent. Carausius morosus is also introduced, although I am unsure if they are near Sacramento. Roaches, land snails and slugs, cave crickets, pincher bugs (earwigs), and a variety of other creatures can all be safely cultured along side millipedes, although matching requirements are key. 

I have seen many people with illegal phasmids and roaches, but I have yet to see a single person penalized for it. Technically, pretty much any invertebrate that is not native that eats plant matter, dead or alive, is termed a plant pest and is illegal to import, or, usually, own, although many people still do. This does not mean its right, but I don't think that some species that are banned are plant pests (such as millipedes), and that the law was signed in without full research on the effects of some "plant pests" on agriculture or native wildlife.
Anyway, Good Luck, and welcome to the wonderful world of Diplopoda!

Arthroverts

Reactions: Like 2


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## raeanna (May 30, 2018)

chanda said:


> I've kept assorted darkling beetles (_Eleodes sp._) in with millipedes (_Orthoporus ornatus_) with no problem - but all beetles and millipedes were collected from the same environment to begin with and had similar requirements. I've also kept ivory millipedes with isopods - but they were the big _Porcellio_ species that live out here in the canyons, not the dwarfs that are commonly kept as tank cleaners, and I suspect they were eating millipede eggs - and maybe even a few millipedes. I know they ate the biggest of the millipedes - but I'm not sure if she died first, and _then_ they ate her, or if she was molting or something and they took advantage, so I've moved the millipedes over to their own tank again.
> 
> In the US, you need special (and very difficult to obtain) permits to keep non-native stick or leaf bugs, generally only available to zoos, museums, research institutions, and other establishments like that, but there are some native stick insects in California, so you could try finding/catching some of those. They're pretty small, though - not nearly as impressive as the exotics. They would not have a problem cohabitating with millipedes because they'd spend most of their time at the top of the enclosure, climbing on twigs or branches and eating leaves, while the millipedes would spend most of their time down in the substrate - but if the stick insects lay eggs, the eggs will be right down in the substrate where the millipedes could eat them. (I don't know if they _would_ eat them - I've never tried keeping them together.) Mantids are not too likely to try to eat your millipedes, particularly if they are well fed and if the millipedes aren't super small - besides which millipedes secrete defensive chemicals that make them taste and smell bad to potential predators - but any time you try keeping different species together, even if you don't have to worry about them eating each other, you have the added complication of making sure you meet the environmental requirements of all species involved (substrate, humidity, moisture, ventilation, temperature, etc.) which can be a little tricky.


Thank you so much for the info!

Yeah I was trying to find things that had the same requirements. 


I think I'll try to find some local. I love stick bugs! But if I can't, I'm not sure where to find normal ones online lol. Mantids are on the top of my list but I also can't find any "normal" species online.


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## raeanna (May 30, 2018)

davehuth said:


> I have a 20 gallon "millipede-centric" enclosure with a number of species. The trick is to give a a very generous depth of substrate, and include many nooks and crannies for critters to hide in. Most of my millipedes are Orthoporus, which will climb on structure and remain surface-active. So I have several levels of sticks, twisty wood pieces, hollowed out tubes of wood, etc., and deep substrate (about 9-ish inches).
> 
> In addition to my Orthoporus and a couple Narceus and Florida Ivories, I keep Halloween Hissing Cockroaches (males only, I don't want swarms of babies) and Gymnetis caseyi (Harlequin Beetles).
> 
> ...


Cool! That sounds like a lot of work... But sounds nice.


Are orthoporus beginner type? I'd love to keep a variety but I'll only have a 10 gallon. I would love surface active ones. I have read so much information today I think my brain has about had it haha. 


I agree with the isopods statement. I've heard they just don't do well together. I'll have to have a separate tank cause I love those little guys. 


I definitely will update once I get rolling.  I'm sure I will have many more questions. Thank you!


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## raeanna (May 30, 2018)

Arthroverts said:


> I hear there is an invasive population of Exatosoma tiaratum in Roseville, which is right above where you live, although I only heard it from one person, so it may not be existent. Carausius morosus is also introduced, although I am unsure if they are near Sacramento. Roaches, land snails and slugs, cave crickets, pincher bugs (earwigs), and a variety of other creatures can all be safely cultured along side millipedes, although matching requirements are key.
> 
> I have seen many people with illegal phasmids and roaches, but I have yet to see a single person penalized for it. Technically, pretty much any invertebrate that is not native that eats plant matter, dead or alive, is termed a plant pest and is illegal to import, or, usually, own, although many people still do. This does not mean its right, but I don't think that some species that are banned are plant pests (such as millipedes), and that the law was signed in without full research on the effects of some "plant pests" on agriculture or native wildlife.
> Anyway, Good Luck, and welcome to the wonderful world of Diplopoda!
> ...


Holy crap those are rad! I will have to look into that, thanks! I think the Carausius morosus is what I used to have a looong time ago for some school project thing. I think they're nearby.


Wait are millipedes illegal here? Or just certain imports? Yeah I think a lot of laws have been created that way. Unfortunately. *eye roll*

What can ya do. 


Thanks!


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## Arthroverts (Jun 1, 2018)

Importing non-native species is illegal, they are considered plant pests. I don't believe keeping them is illegal.
Stagmomantis californica is common, and I have caught them near Sacramento before. They are pretty "normal looking". Also, check out Bugs in Cyberspace, they have several "normal", beginner mantids.

Arthroverts

Reactions: Helpful 1


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## raeanna (Jun 1, 2018)

Arthroverts said:


> Importing non-native species is illegal, they are considered plant pests. I don't believe keeping them is illegal.
> Stagmomantis californica is common, and I have caught them near Sacramento before. They are pretty "normal looking". Also, check out Bugs in Cyberspace, they have several "normal", beginner mantids.
> 
> Arthroverts


Oh normal  mantis are good with me! They're my favorite color, bright green. So I love them! But of course orchids would be cool. 

So do I need to worry about ordering online for any millipede or mantis if they're located in the US? Or are there state to state import laws? I'm new to ordering live things online. I recently ordered betta from Indonesia and that made me nervous... Lol


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## TheInv4sion (Jun 1, 2018)

I've kept isopods and springtails with millipedes but I'm not sure that's quite the answer you were looking for. I wanted to do a roach/millipede/isopod setup but never got to it. Maybe that could be fun?


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## rantology (Jun 1, 2018)

A cool mantis species you can keep with them is Ghost mantis. You can keep them communally and have a whole herd of ghosts in with them. They're a "shy" species of mantid so they don't bother the millipedes (especially if you keep them well fed)- I've done this before. Just make sure you have something for the mantises to hang out on for the top of the enclosure...is very fun. You can probably aslo keep flower beetles in with them (harlequin or other).

...mantids I know will NOT work are any kind of aggressive species (like Hierodula or Orchid)...those will take swipes at and potentially kill 'pedes if they see them.

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## raeanna (Jun 1, 2018)

TheInv4sion said:


> I've kept isopods and springtails with millipedes but I'm not sure that's quite the answer you were looking for. I wanted to do a roach/millipede/isopod setup but never got to it. Maybe that could be fun?


Haha! Thank you for the idea! I'm not too keen on roaches for some reason.


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## raeanna (Jun 1, 2018)

rantology said:


> A cool mantis species you can keep with them is Ghost mantis. You can keep them communally and have a whole herd of ghosts in with them. They're a "shy" species of mantid so they don't bother the millipedes (especially if you keep them well fed)- I've done this before. Just make sure you have something for the mantises to hang out on for the top of the enclosure...is very fun. You can probably aslo keep flower beetles in with them (harlequin or other).
> 
> ...mantids I know will NOT work are any kind of aggressive species (like Hierodula or Orchid)...those will take swipes at and potentially kill 'pedes if they see them.


Those are neat looking! Thank you  Hut are they okay for beginners? This is turning out to be a lot more complicated than I initially thought :wideyed:

Aw shoot.


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## rantology (Jun 1, 2018)

raeanna said:


> Those are neat looking! Thank you  Hut are they okay for beginners? This is turning out to be a lot more complicated than I initially thought :wideyed:
> 
> Aw shoot.


They are very easy to care for and generally like the same environment as millipedes (humid+room temps). You just need feeders for them... here's a care sheet if you want to read more

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## raeanna (Jun 1, 2018)

rantology said:


> They are very easy to care for and generally like the same environment as millipedes (humid+room temps). You just need feeders for them... here's a care sheet if you want to read more


Wow, awesome! Thanks! Are springtails too small? I've never actually had/seen any. Google is showing me worms and crickets primarily as feeders. Silkworms I could do! And if they happen to cocoon I wouldn't be mad.  lol.
EDIT: actually, those are pretty expensive LOL.


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## mickiem (Jun 1, 2018)

Oh, springtails live with anything!  I have them in all of my enclosures; they are a great clean up crew and good food for smaller dart frogs.

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## raeanna (Jun 1, 2018)

mickiem said:


> Oh, springtails live with anything!  I have them in all of my enclosures; they are a great clean up crew and good food for smaller dart frogs.


But would they be a good source of food for mantis? I could/would keep those cause I will be getting dart frogs eventually!

Reactions: Sad 1


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## mickiem (Jun 1, 2018)

They are so small - the mantids would likely only be satisfied with them through a few instars.  I never bought springtails; they came in on something else.  I try to cultivate them separately and am not successful.  But they are prolific in my millipede and isopod enclosures.  My dart frogs are 1/2 grown and still enjoy the occasional springtail.  The steady diet for my mantids and darts are melanogaster fruit flies.  They are about 4X the size of springtails.


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## raeanna (Jun 1, 2018)

mickiem said:


> They are so small - the mantids would likely only be satisfied with them through a few instars.  I never bought springtails; they came in on something else.  I try to cultivate them separately and am not successful.  But they are prolific in my millipede and isopod enclosures.  My dart frogs are 1/2 grown and still enjoy the occasional springtail.  The steady diet for my mantids and darts are melanogaster fruit flies.  They are about 4X the size of springtails.


Oh haha! 

Hm I don't really want anything that flies... I would imagine a lot would get out when you open the enclosure?


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## mickiem (Jun 1, 2018)

raeanna said:


> Oh haha!
> 
> Hm I don't really want anything that flies... I would imagine a lot would get out when you open the enclosure?


No - there are flightless or wingless varieties you can get.   I have heard people say they occasionally find one with wings, but I have never seen one fly!  It's a staple for dart frogs.


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## raeanna (Jun 1, 2018)

mickiem said:


> No - there are flightless or wingless varieties you can get.   I have heard people say they occasionally find one with wings, but I have never seen one fly!  It's a staple for dart frogs.


Ohh perfect, okay! That will definitely work then. Now I just have to find the Mantis somewhere and I am still trying to find the appropriate mulch haha. Thank you!


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## Beedrill (Jun 1, 2018)

A fairly active surface dwelling millipede is Brachycybe lecontii (Feather Millipedes). They are very unique looking as well. They look like little pink feathers, nothing at all like most millipedes (google image them). They max out at maybe 1 to 1-1/2 inches so you could keep a good number of them in a 10 gallon tank. They eat rotting wood and leaves almost exclusively though, so you have to have access to those if you want to keep them. 

Personally, I think that a really neat communal setup with millipedes would be Millipedes, Springtails (any species really), Earwigs, and Harvestmen. They all like the same basic conditions; room temp with moist substrate, leaf litter/bark and rotting wood, moss, etc. The Springtails would keep the enclosure clean and provide the Harvestmen and Earwigs with a source of protein. The Earwigs would feed on deceased Millipedes and Harvestmen. All you would have to do to ensure that everything ran smoothly is add rotting wood as needed, and add in some pre-killed crickets or mealworms to keep the earwigs from eating baby Millipedes or Harvestmen. I'm not sure that all that could comfortably co-exist in a 10 gallon though. I suppose with deep substrate and plenty of hiding spots it could work.

Don't stress too much about it though. If you find that everyone's opinions and suggestions are making it too difficult to make a decision, go with what makes you happy. Just make sure that all the needs and temperaments are matched up before you commit to anything.

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## raeanna (Jun 1, 2018)

Beedrill said:


> A fairly active surface dwelling millipede is Brachycybe lecontii (Feather Millipedes). They are very unique looking as well. They look like little pink feathers, nothing at all like most millipedes (google image them). They max out at maybe 1 to 1-1/2 inches so you could keep a good number of them in a 10 gallon tank. They eat rotting wood and leaves almost exclusively though, so you have to have access to those if you want to keep them.
> 
> Personally, I think that a really neat communal setup with millipedes would be Millipedes, Springtails (any species really), Earwigs, and Harvestmen. They all like the same basic conditions; room temp with moist substrate, leaf litter/bark and rotting wood, moss, etc. The Springtails would keep the enclosure clean and provide the Harvestmen and Earwigs with a source of protein. The Earwigs would feed on deceased Millipedes and Harvestmen. All you would have to do to ensure that everything ran smoothly is add rotting wood as needed, and add in some pre-killed crickets or mealworms to keep the earwigs from eating baby Millipedes or Harvestmen. I'm not sure that all that could comfortably co-exist in a 10 gallon though. I suppose with deep substrate and plenty of hiding spots it could work.
> 
> Don't stress too much about it though. If you find that everyone's opinions and suggestions are making it too difficult to make a decision, go with what makes you happy. Just make sure that all the needs and temperaments are matched up before you commit to anything.


I had seen those! I love them! Wasn't sure if they were beginner though. Can they co-exist with ivories? 

Ahh I never liked earwigs. They're freaky LOL. I will definitely do springtails though. I'm thinking those, millies, melanogaster fruit flies, and ghost mantis. 

Yeah definitely! This part is okay. I am just having a problem finding substrate stuff. Everyone I have talked to says something different


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## Beedrill (Jun 1, 2018)

raeanna said:


> I had seen those! I love them! Wasn't sure if they were beginner though. Can they co-exist with ivories?
> 
> Ahh I never liked earwigs. They're freaky LOL. I will definitely do springtails though. I'm thinking those, millies, melanogaster fruit flies, and ghost mantis.
> 
> Yeah definitely! This part is okay. I am just having a problem finding substrate stuff. Everyone I have talked to says something different


Yup. Don't I know it. The bottom line is that everyone has a different experience with substrates and therefore has a different opinion. Personally, I swear by cocofiber, eco-earth, fine ground coconut husk; whatever you want to call it. Basically it's just finely ground up coconut husk that retains moisture well. Things can be added to it to match the specific needs of pretty much any species. In particular dead leaves, sphagnum moss, rotting wood, sand, and a plethora of other things can be added to it to ensure that whatever will be living on or in it is well taken care of. 

As far as them co-existing with Ivories, I'm honestly not sure, but they're native ranges overlap so I think it would be safe to assume that they could live together in harmony.


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## raeanna (Jun 1, 2018)

Beedrill said:


> Yup. Don't I know it. The bottom line is that everyone has a different experience with substrates and therefore has a different opinion. Personally, I swear by cocofiber, eco-earth, fine ground coconut husk; whatever you want to call it. Basically it's just finely ground up coconut husk that retains moisture well. Things can be added to it to match the specific needs of pretty much any species. In particular dead leaves, sphagnum moss, rotting wood, sand, and a plethora of other things can be added to it to ensure that whatever will be living on or in it is well taken care of.
> 
> As far as them co-existing with Ivories, I'm honestly not sure, but they're native ranges overlap so I think it would be safe to assume that they could live together in harmony.


That is what I originally thought. Someone said that coir lacks any nutrition. But I kinda thought it was just used as a binder? I am just getting so frustrated that I can't find any wood-type substrate. I have coir, moss, and aspen shreds bookmarked but that's not enough.
Someone else said they just use regular soil because it contains more nutrients than the coir.  

Oooh. I think I will start with one species to make it easier on myself lol.


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## TheInv4sion (Jun 1, 2018)

raeanna said:


> Haha! Thank you for the idea! I'm not too keen on roaches for some reason.


maybe you could look into some of the more designer "cute) roaches like domino roaches (Therea petiveriana).

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## raeanna (Jun 1, 2018)

TheInv4sion said:


> maybe you could look into some of the more designer "cute) roaches like domino roaches (Therea petiveriana).


Aw those are kinda cute! The cuban cockroach is pretty too... I guess it's just the brown ones I don't like... lol.


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## TheInv4sion (Jun 1, 2018)

raeanna said:


> Aw those are kinda cute! The cuban cockroach is pretty too... I guess it's just the brown ones I don't like... lol.


I'm currently talking to someone about purchasing some Gyna caffrorum


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## raeanna (Jun 1, 2018)

TheInv4sion said:


> I'm currently talking to someone about purchasing some Gyna caffrorum


Whoa those are pretty cool lookin!


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## TheInv4sion (Jun 1, 2018)

raeanna said:


> Whoa those are pretty cool lookin!


Yeah I think it would be cool to get a small colony going and maybe distribute them to people. Could help alleviate some of the fear of roaches

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## raeanna (Jun 1, 2018)

TheInv4sion said:


> Yeah I think it would be cool to get a small colony going and maybe distribute them to people. Could help alleviate some of the fear of roaches


I think I may like those actually.

Yeah, they kinda freak me out cause they fly. That's one reason I don't like mantis either... They're just so pretty though...
Roaches don't bite do they?


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## TheInv4sion (Jun 1, 2018)

raeanna said:


> I think I may like those actually.
> 
> Yeah, they kinda freak me out cause they fly. That's one reason I don't like mantis either... They're just so pretty though...
> Roaches don't bite do they?


not all roaches fly (though the one pictured does fly). In the end there is a decent variety of things you can house with millipedes so keep us updated on what you end up finally choosing

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## raeanna (Jun 1, 2018)

TheInv4sion said:


> not all roaches fly (though the one pictured does fly). In the end there is a decent variety of things you can house with millipedes so keep us updated on what you end up finally choosing


Oooo I'll look into flightless ones then! Thanks.

Yeah it may be a bit but I'll definitely end up posting something when I do! Thanks for the help!


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## raeanna (Jun 4, 2018)

davehuth said:


> In addition to my Orthoporus and a couple Narceus and Florida Ivories, I keep Halloween Hissing Cockroaches (males only, I don't want swarms of babies) and Gymnetis caseyi (Harlequin Beetles).
> 
> The way I included the beetles has probably been a mistake. They are beautiful and active, and the adults don't bother anyone – but they have reproduced more than i expected. This has put more larvae crawling through the substrate (among the millipedes) than I'm comfortable with. I currently have the beetles separated and am slowly picking out grubs when I lure them near the surface. I plan to replace the Harlequin beetle population with males only. I'm also raising a couple dozen stag beetle larvae, and I'm sure I won't need to use all of the males I end up with for reproduction. So I plan to add the smaller males to the tank at the end of the summer and see how that works out.


I don't mean to bring this back up, but you seem beetle knowledgeable... I searched for "flightless beetles" and saw scarabs pop up. They are so beautiful!
Also, I never looked up the_ gymnetis caseyi _you mentioned above. That is a pretty cool beetle and I just realized it's a scarab!

1) Would any other scarabs work with millipedes?
2) Must they feed solely on dung? 
3) Do the _gymnetis caseyi _fly? o_o

I am basically still looking for a type of bright or unique colored flightless beetle that won't harm the millipedes or possible larva (is that the correct term?).


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## Beedrill (Jun 4, 2018)

I know you asked @davehuth , but I happen to know a bit about them as well. 

1.) I'm sure there are a variety of scarabs that would work with millipedes given proper and copious substrate. Even some of the larger ones, but those will be much harder to get a hold of since only native species are readily available. But common June Beetles, May Beetles, and most Flower Beetles are all in the Scarab family and would probably make ideal tank mates. The only issue that you would have is the mass reproduction issue that he mentioned above. Just make sure that whatever species you are looking at can thrive in a habitat with millipedes in mind. 

2.) A great majority of Scarabs feed on decomposing matter, be it dung or rotting wood and leaves similar to millipedes. The particular species you mentioned is a Flower Beetle, and will be happy to feed on decomposing plant matter as well as dung, rotten fruit, and any other form of decomposing vegitation. So you could probably just go with a good rotten wood substrate with plenty of leaves and the occasional bad apple for larva. The adults will prefer to eat only fresh, soft fruit like bananas and peaches (at least that's my understanding).

3.) Strictly speaking, yes. Almost all Beetles _*can*_ fly, but many varieties of beetles, including most of the readily available scarabs are _*reluctant*_ to fly. Another consideration regarding flight, is that many insect are only able to fly at certain temperatures. See if you can find any specific information about each individual species.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## raeanna (Jun 4, 2018)

Beedrill said:


> I know you asked @davehuth , but I happen to know a bit about them as well.
> 
> 1.) I'm sure there are a variety of scarabs that would work with millipedes given proper and copious substrate. Even some of the larger ones, but those will be much harder to get a hold of since only native species are readily available. But common June Beetles, May Beetles, and most Flower Beetles are all in the Scarab family and would probably make ideal tank mates. The only issue that you would have is the mass reproduction issue that he mentioned above. Just make sure that whatever species you are looking at can thrive in a habitat with millipedes in mind.
> 
> ...


1) Thank you!
2) That is do-able. 
3) Ohh. Okay. Do you know of any reliable/good shops online? I would rather find some I like that are available rather than look up what I like just to find out they aren't available lol! I saw The Butterfly Company and Bugs in Cyberspace, but that's it. TBC seems pretty good. My only thoughts are what is legal or not. But I mean... They wouldn't offer them or ship to me if it was illegal...?

EDIT just realized TBC are not live bugs LOL. That's a bummer.


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## davehuth (Jun 4, 2018)

Despite getting too many larvae in my substrate  – (and I should emphasize I didn't witness the larvae causing problems, I was simply startled that there were so many produced so quickly, and it made me nervous) – I'm a huge fan of G. caseyi. They are fun to watch and cause no problems as adults. As @Beedrill said, feed them slices of banana and they're happy. The millipedes will also munch on the banana from time to time. I've never had a G. caseyi beetle fly. Sometimes at night i hear them buzzing their wings in the enclosure, so I know they're capable of flight. But they're really very chill and just lumber around on their feet, climbing up and down the perches and burrowing in and out of the substrate.

You mentioned that you're not a fan of roaches, but the Halloween Hissers I keep with the millipedes and beetles basically look much like giant colorful beetles, and of course they don't fly either. You may want to look into an easy, fun flightless roach like the numerous species of Hissers.

I got my G. caseyi beetles (as well as other inverts) from Peter Clausen at Bugs in Cyberspace. He's a member here on Arachnoboards and he has many years of knowledgable service in the trade. He specializes in native North American species, which is one reason I love his stock. The animals from him have always be healthy and exactly as described. 

You should know the adult G. caseyi beetles will live only about 5 months or so. This is their natural lifespan. This is actually a reason I'm glad I have so many larvae, I can begin replacing the ones that die as the larvae grow up. 

Here are a few pictures from my communal enclosure, a 20 gallon aquarium tank...

Reactions: Love 1


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## raeanna (Jun 4, 2018)

davehuth said:


> Despite getting too many larvae in my substrate  – (and I should emphasize I didn't witness the larvae causing problems, I was simply startled that there were so many produced so quickly, and it made me nervous) – I'm a huge fan of G. caseyi. They are fun to watch and cause no problems as adults. As @Beedrill said, feed them slices of banana and they're happy. The millipedes will also munch on the banana from time to time. I've never had a G. caseyi beetle fly. Sometimes at night i hear them buzzing their wings in the enclosure, so I know they're capable of flight. But they're really very chill and just lumber around on their feet, climbing up and down the perches and burrowing in and out of the substrate.
> 
> You mentioned that you're not a fan of roaches, but the Halloween Hissers I keep with the millipedes and beetles basically look much like giant colorful beetles, and of course they don't fly either. You may want to look into an easy, fun flightless roach like the numerous species of Hissers.
> 
> ...


I think I like them! But, say they do reproduce like crazy.... Will I need to move them out of the enclosure to keep the numbers down? 

Hm there's just something about the shape of that type of cockroach that is uncomfortable to me. They are quite pretty though, thank you for the suggestion. Maybe once I get more experience and opened up to it.  

Your photos are beautiful! I think I had seen some earlier today on natgeo website. While I was looking for the harlequin beetle actually.


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## davehuth (Jun 4, 2018)

So how to handle beetle larvae in a big enclosure like this seems to be an open question. I got nervous, chickened out, and removed the adults to breed separately, and I pick out the larvae when I can. But with the deep substrate I have, this may not be necessary. My main concern is that when the grubs get large they may burrow over a millipede during a molt and harm it. But like I said I haven't seen this happen. Maybe you'll want to let it go and just see what happens! Or, alternatively, just put in all male or all female beetles (that's my plan; all my cockroaches are male). 

Thank you for the compliment on my photos. I don't think natgeo has ever published any of my photos (I think I'd remember that!). But I like the idea!  

Good luck on your adventures and don't forget to show us what you put together.


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## raeanna (Jun 4, 2018)

davehuth said:


> So how to handle beetle larvae in a big enclosure like this seems to be an open question. I got nervous, chickened out, and removed the adults to breed separately, and I pick out the larvae when I can. But with the deep substrate I have, this may not be necessary. My main concern is that when the grubs get large they may burrow over a millipede during a molt and harm it. But like I said I haven't seen this happen. Maybe you'll want to let it go and just see what happens! Or, alternatively, just put in all male or all female beetles (that's my plan; all my cockroaches are male).
> 
> Thank you for the compliment on my photos. I don't think natgeo has ever published any of my photos (I think I'd remember that!). But I like the idea!
> 
> Good luck on your adventures and don't forget to show us what you put together.


Ohh gotcha. Can it usually be requested to get all of one sex? From BIC or I just found them on Roach Crossing. Also did a search here and nothing came up.
EDIT they ship as larvae... Will it be difficult to care for them in this stage or do I just plop them in and they'll do their thing? 

You're welcome! And I think it was just a profile type deal... If you have that. Maybe it was someone else. But I could've sworn I saw that link at the bottom...

Yes I will!


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## Fred mark (Jun 6, 2018)

I am a specialist in melepeds rareing ,I saw your post on forum ,if you want to keep melepeds you should keep them alone whith thier species only or you can keep them with snails if you got some .


raeanna said:


> Ohh perfect, okay! That will definitely work then. Now I just have to find the Mantis somewhere and I am still trying to find the appropriate mulch haha. Thank you!


Am a specialist atropods and orther exotic pet animals I supply and I Educate people on how to carry out save rareing .if more info needed you contact me via email.fredmark4560@gmail.com


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