# Branching out to Millipedes



## socalqueen (Jan 30, 2017)

I'm looking to branch out and start keeping some Millipedes. I'm wondering what would be a big beautiful starter? Would you reccomend starting with a nymph or adult (just to get a feel for it). I'm drawn to Auturus Evides , Tonkinbolus dolfusii, and 
Apheloria virginiensis. I've read their are poisonous (?) breeds out there, not interested as I would want to be able to handle. Looking for docile and easy to start with.


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## Ratmosphere (Jan 30, 2017)

African giant millipede, _Archispirostreptus gigas_, handled mine every day and it never left trails of poisonous fluid.

Reactions: Like 2


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## mickiem (Jan 30, 2017)

Unless you have an allergic reaction to the toxin they exude, they are pretty harmless.  Sometimes they stain your skin, but that's the worst in my experience.  I have Thai Rainbow and they are heavy exuders.  I am not 100% certain, but I don't think _Tonkinbolus dolfusii_ are available in the US? 

My personal recommendation would be _Chicobolus spinigerus_.  I think they enjoy being handled, they stay topside more than any other of my pedes, they are pretty, an ample size (5"), inexpensive (less than $10), they breed easily (sexes are easy to distinguish) and are hardy. 

I think African Giant Millipedes (AGB) are an awesome species.  They are big and pretty active.  They can get up to 15".  The drawback is their price, $50 and up.

I would suggest a well started captive bred of whatever species you get; and have the cage ready before you bring him home. If you get a large millipede, you could be getting one who is at the end of it's life.   Babies are usually more sensitive to environmental changes, etc.  So half grown or well started (year old)  is best, IMHO.

Keep us posted - they are all pretty easy and somewhat addictive.

Reactions: Agree 4 | Helpful 1


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## socalqueen (Jan 30, 2017)

mickiem said:


> Unless you have an allergic reaction to the toxin they exude, they are pretty harmless.  Sometimes they stain your skin, but that's the worst in my experience.  I have Thai Rainbow and they are heavy exuders.  I am not 100% certain, but I don't think _Tonkinbolus dolfusii_ are available in the US?
> 
> My personal recommendation would be _Chicobolus spinigerus_.  I think they enjoy being handled, they stay topside more than any other of my pedes, they are pretty, an ample size (5"), inexpensive (less than $10), they breed easily (sexes are easy to distinguish) and are hardy.
> 
> ...


Thank you , I appreciate your feedback. My 7 year old daughter expressed an interest and I'm always happy to feed her curiousity for nature and animals. How big of an enclosure would you reccomend?


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## RTTB (Jan 30, 2017)

Floor space is more important than the vertical aspect. A 5 gallon Long would be perfect I think.

Reactions: Like 1


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## mickiem (Jan 30, 2017)

For the ivories, something similar to a 10 gallon tank size would work.  (20LX11DX13H).  I like plastic tubs, but if you only have the one enclosure, the ten gallon would work.  I suggest the substrate be as deep as the millipede is long. The 10 gallon lid would have to be mostly covered for increased humidity.  There are lots of threads here about how others have done this.  That is why I like the plastic tubs - the humidity is easier to maintain.  I drill about a dozen 1/4" holes near the top and keep the lid on always.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## mickiem (Jan 30, 2017)

RTTB said:


> Floor space is more important than the vertical aspect. A 5 gallon Long would be perfect I think.


I have found the 2 1/2 and 5 gallon tanks to be higher priced than the 10 gallon and accessories harder to source.  I agree the 5 gallon would be large enough, but for the same or maybe less, you can have a larger enclosure if you have the space available!


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## pannaking22 (Jan 30, 2017)

If you could find _Tonkinbolus dolfusi _that would be a heck of a species to keep. I saw them available a couple years ago from Swift's Inverts but haven't seen them since...still kicking myself for not picking some up lol. 

_C. spinigerus_ make a good starter, as would _Narceus americanus or N. gordanus_. You get some interesting species out in California as well, which comes with the added fun of being able to collect them yourself if you don't want to have some shipped to you. Genus _Tylobolus _if I remember correctly. They don't get as large as the other species mentioned, but are still decent sized and look interesting.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## socalqueen (Jan 30, 2017)

pannaking22 said:


> If you could find _Tonkinbolus dolfusi _that would be a heck of a species to keep. I saw them available a couple years ago from Swift's Inverts but haven't seen them since...still kicking myself for not picking some up lol.
> 
> _C. spinigerus_ make a good starter, as would _Narceus americanus or N. gordanus_. You get some interesting species out in California as well, which comes with the added fun of being able to collect them yourself if you don't want to have some shipped to you. Genus _Tylobolus _if I remember correctly. They don't get as large as the other species mentioned, but are still decent sized and look interesting.


I would absolutely love to collect them myself. I'm not sure what I will find in my wanderings but I'm open to anything. I will be purchasing a starter or two in the meantime. T Dolfusi is beautiful and I'm hearing their difficult to find but I'm
on the hunt.


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## socalqueen (Jan 30, 2017)

mickiem said:


> I have found the 2 1/2 and 5 gallon tanks to be higher priced than the 10 gallon and accessories harder to source.  I agree the 5 gallon would be large enough, but for the same or maybe less, you can have a larger enclosure if you have the space available!


I think a larger enclosure would be the better deal and offers space for future additions.


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## RTTB (Jan 30, 2017)

Agree. Go bigger if you can.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## socalqueen (Jan 30, 2017)

mickiem said:


> For the ivories, something similar to a 10 gallon tank size would work.  (20LX11DX13H).  I like plastic tubs, but if you only have the one enclosure, the ten gallon would work.  I suggest the substrate be as deep as the millipede is long. The 10 gallon lid would have to be mostly covered for increased humidity.  There are lots of threads here about how others have done this.  That is why I like the plastic tubs - the humidity is easier to maintain.  I drill about a dozen 1/4" holes near the top and keep the lid on always.


I've been doing quite a bit of reading on the sub needs, and from what I'm understanding it needs a thick layer of coconut/coir, then a layer of mixed leaf litter and crushed hardwood, then on top another layer of loose packed dry leaves. I'm reading it basically has to be just right for survival, so it makes me a bit nervous.


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## socalqueen (Jan 30, 2017)

RTTB said:


> Floor space is more important than the vertical aspect. A 5 gallon Long would be perfect I think.


I habe the perfect location, I will need to acquire something on a larger scale soon, as I plan to have these new critters within the next two weeks. Would you reccomend basic plastic containers with a snap on lid or something more aesthetically pleasing such as an acrylic tank etc?


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## socalqueen (Jan 30, 2017)

RTTB said:


> Agree. Go bigger if you can.


Bigger is always better. There's an opportunity for growth and I think it's better for them To have some wandering room. Do they require hidey holes?


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## mickiem (Jan 31, 2017)

They will hide in the substrate; that's why it needs to be deep.  A glass or acrylic tank is definitely better to watch them - plastic tubs are nice for the lightweight aspect.  Don't let the substrate needs intimidate you!  Most millipedes are pretty forgiving if it isn't perfect.  The hardier species have a pretty good range of what is acceptable.  Just keep in touch here with photos, etc.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## socalqueen (Jan 31, 2017)

mickiem said:


> They will hide in the substrate; that's why it needs to be deep.  A glass or acrylic tank is definitely better to watch them - plastic tubs are nice for the lightweight aspect.  Don't let the substrate needs intimidate you!  Most millipedes are pretty forgiving if it isn't perfect.  The hardier species have a pretty good range of what is acceptable.  Just keep in touch here with photos, etc.


I will most definitely post pics, I'll be ordering this week and setting up the tank asap. I'll post pics of the tank when we finish getting it ready.


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## pannaking22 (Jan 31, 2017)

socalqueen said:


> I've been doing quite a bit of reading on the sub needs, and from what I'm understanding it needs a thick layer of coconut/coir, then a layer of mixed leaf litter and crushed hardwood, then on top another layer of loose packed dry leaves. I'm reading it basically has to be just right for survival, so it makes me a bit nervous.


Agreed with what mickiem said, substrate doesn't have to be perfect, as long as the necessary components are there, they'll work with it and should still do fine. I've given various species a substrate that's just a mix of all that with some extra leaves on top and they thrived.

Reactions: Like 1


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## socalqueen (Feb 1, 2017)

pannaking22 said:


> Agreed with what mickiem said, substrate doesn't have to be perfect, as long as the necessary components are there, they'll work with it and should still do fine. I've given various species a substrate that's just a mix of all that with some extra leaves on top and they thrived.


Because I'm new at this I'm trying to be careful, im sure 6 months from now I'll feel like a pro and won't even trip on substrate etc. Because I'm buying these for my daughter (for me as well) I want them to do well, I don't want to have to explain dead bugs to a 7 year old. That would suck. Once we get the hang of it, it would be cool to breed them as well, but right now I just want them to survive.


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## socalqueen (Feb 6, 2017)

So we decided on Bumblebee milli's. They will be arriving this week. We laid substrate but I'm wondering what kind of leaves would be good for them?  And any advice on Bumblebees is welcome. I'm excited to see these guys in person.

Reactions: Like 1


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## SolFeliz (Oct 25, 2017)

So this is a really late reply, but I've stumbled across this thread while looking for info on T dolffusi millis, and I saw lots of people talking about them and how hard it is to find them. Clearly, most of the people who commented on this thread live in America, but there's this awesome insect breeder site in the UK, and I'm not sure if they deliver to America, but if there's anyone in the uk, go to Spider Shop, they sell all sorts and have T dolffusi as well!


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## ErinM31 (Oct 25, 2017)

SolFeliz said:


> So this is a really late reply, but I've stumbled across this thread while looking for info on T dolffusi millis, and I saw lots of people talking about them and how hard it is to find them. Clearly, most of the people who commented on this thread live in America, but there's this awesome insect breeder site in the UK, and I'm not sure if they deliver to America, but if there's anyone in the uk, go to Spider Shop, they sell all sorts and have T dolffusi as well!


All sorts of amazing millipedes are available to those who don’t live in the U.S. Here we build walls and make stupid laws banning all foreign millipedes.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## SolFeliz (Oct 25, 2017)

ErinM31 said:


> All sorts of amazing millipedes are available to those who don’t live in the U.S. Here we build walls and make stupid laws banning all foreign millipedes.


Lol I'm so sorry I was trying to be helpful and all I did was annoy someone. Basically the story of my life! 
Yeah, I've heard *all *about the insect laws in America, they seem pretty stupid! Here in the UK, we can get almost any foreign insect we like, thanks to some great breeders!


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## ErinM31 (Oct 25, 2017)

SolFeliz said:


> Lol I'm so sorry I was trying to be helpful and all I did was annoy someone. Basically the story of my life!
> Yeah, I've heard *all *about the insect laws in America, they seem pretty stupid! Here in the UK, we can get almost any foreign insect we like, thanks to some great breeders!


Lol, noooo, I am not annoyed by you, but rather by our stupid laws and politicians!

No need to be sorry and I hope those with access do find your post helpful and enjoy the vast variety of millipedes available!

Reactions: Like 1


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## eggcellent (Oct 26, 2017)

Foreign millipedes aren't completely banned here. In fact, the entire class of Millipede is legal in all states, even California.

However, the import of any animal is illegal. Unless you have a permit, with said permit you must pay a fee per shipment.

I dislike the laws but they are put in place because species can easily become invasive in many of our states, particularly California, Hawaii, and Florida. Inverts even with experience keepers have the chance of escaping and it only takes a few to explode in population.

tdlr; Importing is illegal without a permit, we don't see a lot of foreign ones here because it is costly to import.

Also for op's topic, my first millipedes were Sonoran desert millipedes. They are very cute bugs and don't bite. They do nibble though which can be startling !


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## ErinM31 (Oct 26, 2017)

eggcellent said:


> Foreign millipedes aren't completely banned here. In fact, the entire class of Millipede is legal in all states, even California.
> 
> However, the import of any animal is illegal. Unless you have a permit, with said permit you must pay a fee per shipment.
> 
> ...


It must be prohibitively expensive to acquire said permits and some species are simply not available anywhere in the States. 

I suspect that those species capable of being invasive are already here and, indeed, many are already ubiquitous, including several julids and the “greenhouse” millipede. These and others came not as pets, but on imported plants, etc.


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## eggcellent (Oct 26, 2017)

ErinM31 said:


> It must be prohibitively expensive to acquire said permits and some species are simply not available anywhere in the States.
> 
> I suspect that those species capable of being invasive are already here and, indeed, many are already ubiquitous, including several julids and the “greenhouse” millipede. These and others came not as pets, but on imported plants, etc.


It can be, but I think the real issue with the permits is not the price, but the fact only universities/researchers/zoos/scientist/ect can apply for a permit. Then they must see if the insect is potentially invasive, if it isn't, I do not know if they need to proceed with the next step. But after this, they fill out a request form (along with a fee I think of $55 per shipment) to see if the species can be safely transported without anything escaping and potentially causing havoc. Then, upon approval the package gets held at an airport, looked over by an agent then is released to the person.

After that, it is a matter of the animal being able to reproduce. It is only released to public availability if there is not any potential for it to be invasive or is a known invader.

So yeah, massively difficult to get stuff imported here haha. California has a lot of invaders that were once pets, in my area Water snakes, red eared sliders, and channeled apple snails are causing pretty huge impacts here.


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## ErinM31 (Oct 26, 2017)

eggcellent said:


> It can be, but I think the real issue with the permits is not the price, but the fact only universities/researchers/zoos/scientist/ect can apply for a permit. Then they must see if the insect is potentially invasive, if it isn't, I do not know if they need to proceed with the next step. But after this, they fill out a request form (along with a fee I think of $55 per shipment) to see if the species can be safely transported without anything escaping and potentially causing havoc. Then, upon approval the package gets held at an airport, looked over by an agent then is released to the person.
> 
> After that, it is a matter of the animal being able to reproduce. It is only released to public availability if there is not any potential for it to be invasive or is a known invader.
> 
> So yeah, massively difficult to get stuff imported here haha. California has a lot of invaders that were once pets, in my area Water snakes, red eared sliders, and channeled apple snails are causing pretty huge impacts here.


Well then there's the problem; there should be a separate permit to get for bringing in a species as a pet, which there evidently is for species such as tarantulas, yes? I have never looked into it.

I know of the request form you're talking about, routinely used to obtain transgenic flies, nematodes, etc. for research purposes. I don't think it would be legally applicable here, certainly not as a path to making them available to the public.

I don't argue that people abandoning animals into the wild is a huge problem, and not just exotic species. I'd best not even get started with my feelings on that. 

But anyway, it is what it is and even if we were to come up with a perfect solution here, it wouldn't change the laws.


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## emplosion (Oct 26, 2017)

SolFeliz said:


> I'm not sure if they deliver to America, but if there's anyone in the uk, go to Spider Shop, they sell all sorts and have T dolffusi as well!


 Unfortunately we can't get imports in America anymore.


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## SolFeliz (Oct 26, 2017)

emplosion said:


> Unfortunately we can't get imports in America anymore.


I'm sorry, there's some awesome bugs out there, it seems stupid that you can't import it to America

Reactions: Agree 1


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## LawnShrimp (Oct 26, 2017)

Bumblebees (Anadenobolus monilicornis) are a common, easy to care for and easy to breed species that reaches a small size length of 2-2.5 inches. They are very prolific; a small group of these I collected in Florida bred a month later and I am swamped with hundreds of babies now. While their lifespans, and size are both rather short, they make up for it with their color and hardiness. Be aware millipedes stay buried for days even when not molting. Feed them cucumber for a spectacular 'watering hole' display!

For the future, a larger and even more prolific species is Chicobolus spinigerus, the Florida Ivory. They get up to a large size and are very active. I wish I had some myself!


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## emplosion (Oct 26, 2017)

LawnShrimp said:


> Bumblebees (Anadenobolus monilicornis) are a common, easy to care for and easy to breed species that reaches a small size length of 2-2.5 inches. They are very prolific; a small group of these I collected in Florida bred a month later and I am swamped with hundreds of babies now. While their lifespans, and size are both rather short, they make up for it with their color and hardiness. Be aware millipedes stay buried for days even when not molting. Feed them cucumber for a spectacular 'watering hole' display!
> 
> For the future, a larger and even more prolific species is Chicobolus spinigerus, the Florida Ivory. They get up to a large size and are very active. I wish I had some myself!


I think in general all of the pedes found in Florida are great. The scarlets are awesome. What I like about these 3 is you can keep them all in a large enough container together.


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## pannaking22 (Nov 16, 2017)

pannaking22 said:


> If you could find _Tonkinbolus dolfusi _that would be a heck of a species to keep. I saw them available a couple years ago from Swift's Inverts but haven't seen them since...still kicking myself for not picking some up lol.
> 
> _C. spinigerus_ make a good starter, as would _Narceus americanus or N. gordanus_. You get some interesting species out in California as well, which comes with the added fun of being able to collect them yourself if you don't want to have some shipped to you. Genus _Tylobolus _if I remember correctly. They don't get as large as the other species mentioned, but are still decent sized and look interesting.


@Millipedematt what did I say here that you disagree with? Always curious to hear where I may be wrong so I can learn more!


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## Millipedematt (Dec 4, 2017)

pannaking22 said:


> @Millipedematt what did I say here that you disagree with? Always curious to hear where I may be wrong so I can learn more!


Sorry for the late reply must have not seen the notification but yeah no I dident mean to click undid the rating. And I'm also pretty new to the millipede hobby.

Reactions: Like 1


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## benjaminfrogs (Dec 4, 2017)

I have difficulty with bumblebees they  seem to   have issues  with cold


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## pannaking22 (Dec 4, 2017)

Millipedematt said:


> Sorry for the late reply must have not seen the notification but yeah no I dident mean to click undid the rating. And I'm also pretty new to the millipede hobby.


No worries, I just wanted to make sure I didn't say something wrong by accident! I've gotten more into millipedes over the last couple months so I know I still have lots to learn about them.


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## benjaminfrogs (Dec 4, 2017)

pannaking22 said:


> No worries, I just wanted to make sure I didn't say something wrong by accident! I've gotten more into millipedes over the last couple months so I know I still have lots to learn about them.



What species do you   have?


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## pannaking22 (Dec 4, 2017)

benjaminfrogs said:


> What species do you   have?


Used to keep Acladocricus sp. (Phillipine blues), Apeuthes sp. (Thai rainbows), and millipede sp. Panama, but sold them off due to moving to an area where I wouldn't have regular access to rotting leaves and wood. I'm hoping to get back into them in the future, but we'll see what happens. What species do you have?


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## benjaminfrogs (Dec 4, 2017)

Phillipine Blues and Flames A couple bumble bees, 1 ivory  and a small colony   of    scarletts


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## LawnShrimp (Dec 4, 2017)

pannaking22 said:


> Used to keep Acladocricus sp. (Phillipine blues), Apeuthes sp. (Thai rainbows), and milliepede sp. Panama, but sold them off due to moving to an area where I wouldn't have regular access to rotting leaves and wood. I'm hoping to get back into them in the future, but we'll see what happens. What species do you have?


Panama? What color were they?


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## pannaking22 (Dec 5, 2017)

LawnShrimp said:


> Panama? What color were they?


Brown with sort of rusty orange bands. @mickiem has them now, so maybe there are pics? They're definitely on the smaller side, but still good looking pedes.


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## mickiem (Dec 5, 2017)

I’ll post some pics later when I get home!


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## mickiem (Dec 9, 2017)

Finally remembered!  This is the Panama

Reactions: Like 1


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