# Going to Southern Mexico for a while....



## Nomadinexile (Nov 3, 2010)

So erm, yep.   Guess I'm going to Chiapas next week.  Going to mix hitch hiking and bussing it.  Plan on being there at least a month, possibly longer, only time will tell on this one.   

Anyone have anything down that way they'd like photographed?   I'm buying a point and shoot cannon.   So I should be able to get decent pics.    

Any info anyone is looking to find out?   Any really interesting species I should look for?

And does anyone have any good info or links on S. Mex specie distribution or anything else relevant?    

Please post here, or if needed, PM or Email me.   

I'm going to miss Arachnoboards and all of you.....      ~Ryan


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## Harlock (Nov 3, 2010)

Stay safe Ryan.  (And post some sweet pics)


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## skippy (Nov 4, 2010)

i'd quite like to see some heloderms in their natural habitat:clap:

other than that, nothing in particular... any bug you find will be just fine


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## Irene B. Smithi (Nov 4, 2010)

stay safe, it's dangerous down there.  maybe some pics of the local scorpions living amongst the people, those are always nice!!  People really can live with these little guys, so pictures like that are not only positive, but fun!!


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## gromgrom (Nov 4, 2010)

grab some of the rarer species for us up in the northern states


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## Nomadinexile (Nov 4, 2010)

Harlock said:


> Stay safe Ryan.  (And post some sweet pics)


Thanks!   And btw, I'm going hiking in the spring if you are up for it!  



skippy said:


> i'd quite like to see some heloderms in their natural habitat:clap:
> other than that, nothing in particular... any bug you find will be just fine


Pretty cool.  I've never heard of those before.   If I see one, I will get a pic with my finger in it's mouth.       j/k.   But I'll get a pic!



Orchid said:


> stay safe, it's dangerous down there.  maybe some pics of the local scorpions living amongst the people, those are always nice!!  People really can live with these little guys, so pictures like that are not only positive, but fun!!


I'll do my best Orchid.    Maybe I can get a pic of SC Marcos holding a couple of C. chiapanensis?



gromgrom said:


> grab some of the rarer species for us up in the northern states


LoL Grom!        I'd love to.   But I wouldn't count on it unless I find some loophole or get an Honorary Biological Masters and permit on my way at UNAM!   This is just a picture trip unfortunately.   


***Btw***
If anyone is interested I just got some of my Masks I made for Halloween up on my PB account.    I've had a lot of people ask about them, so here you go.   

http://s619.photobucket.com/albums/tt279/Nomadinexile/Masks Halloween 2010/


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## Versi*JP*Color (Nov 4, 2010)

Don't forget to take pics of the herps.


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## H. laoticus (Nov 4, 2010)

Sweet masks, Nomad!  I can see the level of workmanship in them.  
There's too much beauty in Mexico to name, so just take pictures of any/every living thing you see 
Habitat pics would be great to see.


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## Widowman10 (Nov 4, 2010)

know this is in the scorpion forum, but i would love to see some good pics of the herps, mainly the rattlesnakes :} have fun!


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## AzJohn (Nov 4, 2010)

That's one of the places I'd love to go. Stay safe and have fun.

John


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## Nomadinexile (Nov 4, 2010)

SpyderBoy606 said:


> Don't forget to take pics of the herps.


I'll get some.  



H. laoticus said:


> Sweet masks, Nomad!  I can see the level of workmanship in them.
> There's too much beauty in Mexico to name, so just take pictures of any/every living thing you see
> Habitat pics would be great to see.


Thank you H.L.     I'll take as many pics as I can.   Problem will be battery life.    I should have plenty of mb's,  but batteries are an issue.   I'm going to be in the jungle most of the time without outlets, so I got a AA powered cannon, but even with the really expensive batteries, I should get only get around 300 pics.    But I will get as much as I can!   



Widowman10 said:


> know this is in the scorpion forum, but i would love to see some good pics of the herps, mainly the rattlesnakes :} have fun!


Yes indeed Widowman, I will be taking pics of anything I find that is venomous, snakes included!    



AzJohn said:


> That's one of the places I'd love to go. Stay safe and have fun.
> 
> John


Thank you John.   I will do my best, despite my inherent recklessness.


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## Harlock (Nov 5, 2010)

You might be able to find a solar powered charger, dunno if they make one or not (or if you can wire one)

I might be able to go out this spring, I spend a lot of time in the ento lab at UT and it depends on how stuff is going there.  I'm the only person they have caring for the live collection, and we just got a 2nd volunteer to help me prepare a couple 100 bugs for identification and curating. This spring I'm going to be helping rear dragonflies, so I don't know how much care they will need.

The awesome thing is this prof is doing a special summer course were we will be going all over Texas hunting and learning about our native bugs.  Plus, he gets all the permits necessary for us to collect from State parks!  

Next time you are in Austin, I'll show you around BFL, 88 acres of barely touched land on Lake Austin.  One of the few places you can go out the back door and have 2 scorpionflies mating on the porch.


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## Nomadinexile (Nov 6, 2010)

Sounds like you are staying busy Harlock!   Good for you!  Although I am a little jealous.    I would love to see BFL with you, It would be a real treat. 


Well, for you and everyone else, I have some good news and some bad news.

Let's start with the bad news.  I'm not going to Mexico right now.   Reasons?

1.   It's really cold where I'm going.   Way colder than average.   Too cold for scorpions, that's for sure.  It will be 1* C tomorrow night.  :wall:

2.  Lack of planning makes the trip a really bad idea right now.

3.   I would return broke.  Then what?   What was I thinking?  :?

4.   I need to practice my spanish more, and I need to study scorpion biology more.   I have spanish books and audio, and I just ordered Eric's book Scorpions Of The World.   That and some effort reading and I will be better off at least.

5.   I have a much better plan in the works.   

So here is the new plan. This is so awesome, I can hardly contain myself.

Panama, Columbia, and maybe Venezuela!     Yes indeed.   I have to do some planning on order of travel.  Panama has C. bicolor.  That will be one of the main goals.   I will be taking gb's of photos of them and their habitats!    

Well, you can look for yourself at the other species in these countries at Eric's Scorpion Fauna.

http://eycb.pagesperso-orange.fr/scorpions/ACPanama.htm

http://eycb.pagesperso-orange.fr/scorpions/ASColombie.htm

http://eycb.pagesperso-orange.fr/scorpions/ASVenezuela.htm

For those of you that don't look, just to give you an idea, Columbia has 33 Tityus species by itself!    

So anyway, that's about all for now.   I will start a new thread for this trip later.    If anyone is going to be free from the middle of march to middle of may(ish) next year, and wants to slog through the jungle with a crazy man, maybe run into guerrilla armies and has nerves of steel, I may take you along.    Contact me and we can talk about it.    later   ~r


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## Harlock (Nov 7, 2010)

Going to Central America would be awesome. You're bound to find some awesome stuff there.  

I went to Bracken Cave on Friday and camped out till today with my field biology class (Plant survey on treatment trying to fight that King Ranch Blue Stem grass crud)  Gathered up a few bat skulls for cage decorations.  It is amazing how fast you get used to guano when you are ankle deep in the stuff.

Managed to find a pseudo scorpion running around on one of the skulls, but I let him go.  A few C. vittatus were still out, despite it dropping below freezing too.

I wish I could join you, by then I should have my wildlife first responder certification.


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## Nomadinexile (Nov 8, 2010)

I wish you could too Harlock.    Looks like Mexico is back on anyway.    Time to hit the road again I guess.  

I'm going to try to make it down to Panama anyway, but I don't have very much money, I'll be lucky to make it to S. Mexico.   But if I can figure something out, I'll be down in C. America by the spring.   I'll post an update here again before I leave, but right now it looks like I have a ride to Houston, then I will start hitching south and see how it goes...


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## Treynok (Nov 8, 2010)

Have fun on your trip, that's like a once in a lifetime experience ahead of you (well to me anyways).  Get the most out of it :worship:


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## Nomadinexile (Nov 8, 2010)

Thanks Treynok!

It should be wonderful.  I'm sad right now because of some personal issues, but once I get on the road and get some time in the wilderness, I should be okay.

This trip should be great in a lot of ways, but it will probably be unending.   I don't have anywhere to go when I am done.   Such is life sometimes.   

My main concern right now, besides the above, is this:   I don't have very much money.   I'm hoping to make it to S. Mexico with $100.    Then what?   I want to be outside, and traveling to different countries.  But I am afraid I will get stuck having to be in resort towns and cities busking for money so I can eat.   If I can figure out a way to make some money then move to the next town or country, then it will be awesome.   Being broke and hungry far from home would stink though.   

Oh well, life gives us lemons sometimes.    I should be okay, but it is by no means a slam dunk.   I may end up slinking back to America a broken mess, or I will make it work and end up posting pictures here from all over the world.   Only time will tell.

The only thing I can promise right now is that I will try my best.  Sometimes  things work out, other times it does not.    We will see....         ~r


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## Treynok (Nov 9, 2010)

Nomadinexile said:


> This trip should be great in a lot of ways, but it will probably be unending.   I don't have anywhere to go when I am done.   Such is life sometimes.


Sometimes I wish this were the case with me, I wish ya the best you'll be missed on here if you don't check in often enough, your advice and input is always welcome and more often than not correct and helpful.  Things have a way of working out if you make them work out for you.  You know what they say about lemons and lemonade ... I got plenty of vodka 

Seriously though just take it easy and be careful, even at the worst your trip is still a huge experience that a lot of people will never get to experience.

Post plenty of pics on here whenever you get the chance.


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## Nomadinexile (Nov 12, 2010)

Thank you Treynok!   You really did cheer me up.    I've been in a very stressful state the last couple of weeks.    I'm a bit nervous to go, mostly because I am so broke.     I don't know how I am going to get down there, let alone get back!   It looks like now I will have $40-$50 when I get to Palenque, If I am lucky.

That will not last long, even in S. Mex.   But I have come to grips with it.  I am letting go again, finding my center.   It's not going to be easy, I have no delusions about that, but I will make it or not, and I'm going to enjoy whatever direction the world takes me in this time around. 

Looks like I will be heading out Sunday.    I have a ride to the S. side of Houston.   Will hitch to the border, and hopefully make it S. of Matamoras by dark.   I should make Mexico City the next day, or even the day after that, hopefully!   I should have enough to bus it through the City, then it should be another day or two to Palenque area.    Once down there, I can relax and enjoy the view.   Besides money, my main concern is the weight I will be carrying.   It's a beast right now, and I'm not done packing.   It's almost to much to carry, let alone walk far with, but maybe I can cut the weight a bit before I leave.   

I'm having a hard time finding pictures for a lot of the 223 species down there.   Maybe I can make a dent in the void!    Should be an adventure either way.    Temp's down there right now are perfect I think, plus it's the rainy season, should be lots of activity.   I really hope I see a Jaguar, a pic of one would be the bees knees, but just a sighting would really make my trip.    They are one of my favorite animals, besides scorpions of course.  

Anyone know how to say scorpion in Spanish?    If you do, and can spell it out phonetically, that would be great.    I'm sure someone sometime is going to want to know what I'm doing with my tail in the air and my head in a hole in the tree!   

I'll post again tomorrow if there is anything else I think of.    But I will miss AB, as much as anything in the states.    I will log in down there somewhere if I can.

As for after Palenque, there are a few possible directions I may go, depending on what is happening with some people I know up here.    

I could end up just coming back here in Jan.   I may stay down there until March, traveling around different parts of Mexico.   Or I could catch a ride on a boat to Panama, which if that happens, you all won't hear much from me for a while.   Maybe a check in here and there, but that's about it.   Well, whatever happens or I choose, I will connect here when I can.  

Peace for All, ~Ryan


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## Cowin8579 (Nov 14, 2010)

I would prepare more here bro.  It's easy to earn a check from McDonalds and take it with you then hustling for money on a street with others doing the same exact thing.


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## Nomadinexile (Nov 14, 2010)

Hey Corwin.   You are right.   I came to the same conclusion and have decided to wait at least a few weeks.   The place I was going to go first is having some problems, and I was able to make some arrangements here to stay longer and hopefully make some extra money.    

It doesn't really matter as far as the scorpions go.  Where I'm going the weather will be the same now and next month.   I also think I will be able to lighten my load and have much better info on where to go.   

Right now, I'm planning on focusing on the Diplocentrus of Chiapas, Oaxaca, Yucatan, and Quintana Roo.    I am also going to attempt to find and photograph some of the eyeless troglodytic Typhlochactidae.   In particular, Typhlochactas mitchelli. 

Should be a better trip if I wait.   Then I can worry about scorpions instead of scrounging for food.   yeah.

Peace, r


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## telow (Nov 14, 2010)

dont forget to bring back some nice live souvenirs


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## Nomadinexile (Nov 15, 2010)

telow said:


> dont forget to bring back some nice live souvenirs


Ha!  Wouldn't that be nice?   I could introduce 200 new species into the hobby by the spring.  

Too bad it would be so illegal!   :wall:    It doesn't make any sense to me.   I could take 10 of each species and not hurt the populations at all.   Well, I wouldn't.  But if it was legal, then others would go down there and take everything they could grab, which I guess is why it is illegal.   I don't want to go to jail in Mexico.   That doesn't sound like fun for me.    

So I will only be bringing back pictures.  

The only hope I have is that while studying the sub 1cm T. mitchelli, a couple decide they like the smell of my dirty socks, and hitch a ride in my backpack.   :}

Just kidding.   Because I don't think border patrol would believe me!   
Ah well, maybe someday I can change the laws or get a permit somehow. :?

At least you will see some good pics!


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## H. laoticus (Nov 15, 2010)

How to pronounce alacrán (scorpion) which is pretty important if you're planning on looking for them over there 
http://www.forvo.com/word/alacrán/


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## metallica (Nov 16, 2010)

Nomadinexile said:


> If anyone is interested I just got some of my Masks I made for Halloween up on my PB account.    I've had a lot of people ask about them, so here you go.


you should visit the mask museum in Acapulco! 

Eddy


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## Nomadinexile (Nov 16, 2010)

H. laoticus said:


> How to pronounce alacrán (scorpion) which is pretty important if you're planning on looking for them over there
> http://www.forvo.com/word/alacrán/


Yes indeed!   Thank you HL! 





metallica said:


> you should visit the mask museum in Acapulco!
> 
> Eddy


That is awesome.    A mask museum?    Ohhhh yes.   That is getting added to the list.    Thanks Eddy!


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## metallica (Nov 16, 2010)

To make this thread on topic... they have a scorpion mask as well there!

Eddy


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## telow (Nov 16, 2010)

yeah it is  it sucks but thats the rules just be careful out there


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## Nomadinexile (Nov 16, 2010)

metallica said:


> To make this thread on topic... they have a scorpion mask as well there!
> Eddy


What what what?!?!?!   I've been thinking for a long time how to make a nice one with leather, but I can't come up with any good ideas.   Maybe that is the lead I need.   Do you happen to have any pictures of it?  



telow said:


> yeah it is  it sucks but thats the rules just be careful out there


Yep.  I think you about summed it up, it stinks.  

Well, I am still leaving soon, but as I read more and more, I am questioning going to Mexico at all right now.   The place I want to go first down south, apparently is no less dangerous than the border.   I don't want to go through government checkpoints, then rebel and criminal checkpoints broke.   I don't want to run out of money down there either.   I could probably hustle up enough to eat, but I don't want to take money from tourists that they would spend on poor kids living there.   

So now I am thinking I will spend the winter in the southwest U.S. mining Fluorescing minerals and rocks.    Sell them at the gem shows in Quartzite and Tucson, then hopefully have plenty of money to go MX and not worry about anything.   Plus, the weather will be better for looking at arachnids in the early spring anyway.   After a few months, I will come back to the U.S. and do some scorpion collecting and some more mining.   Then, who knows?

If anyone has any special requests for U.S. species, feel free to drop me a line, I'll be all over the SW US this spring.   For now though, I have a ton of reading to do.


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## John Bokma (Nov 20, 2010)

I live in Xalapa, Veracruz and hike often in Puebla and Oaxaca. I don't understand why it wouldn't be safe, I feel more safe in Mexico then in my home country the Netherlands.

If you have any questions regarding Mexico, I might be able to help. And I might be able to make some time if you come to Xalapa.


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## Nomadinexile (Nov 20, 2010)

John Bokma said:


> I live in Xalapa, Veracruz and hike often in Puebla and Oaxaca. I don't understand why it wouldn't be safe, I feel more safe in Mexico then in my home country the Netherlands.
> 
> If you have any questions regarding Mexico, I might be able to help. And I might be able to make some time if you come to Xalapa.


Hey John,

I agree that parts of Mexico are safer than much of the U.S.   I live in New Orleans right now, and our murder rate is higher than all but a couple small border cities in the north of MX.

My trip is evolving right now.   But many of the places I want to go are some of the most dangerous in MX right now, according to information I am getting.   One area I want to go is in the North, and apparently is very dangerous due to drug gang turf wars.   Many people living in the towns have left, and many others are dead.  

Another place I really want to go is Chiapas.   According to the guide books I am reading, and some other sources I am in contact with, there is also a lot of danger there.   This is due to banditry associated with poverty, and also drug activity.    I think I will be safe, but I also want to have money to pay bribes when neccesary.   I don't want to be killed or jailed because I can't pay $5!    Maybe these fears are over blown, but things do happen.   I want to be in a good position when I go.

As for Veracruz, I recently received some very exact location of an undescribed and unphotographed Avicularia specie.   Maybe that would be a good trip for us to go on?   I would love to have some good knowledgeable company.    My knowledge of tarantulas is severely lacking, and I'm no expert in scorpions either!   

I will be sure to write to you more before I leave.   My mind is full right now, but I will certainly have some questions for you!   The only one I can think of right now is this:

If I am only paying for food, how much would I need per day to eat, if I am eating cheap food?    Like bare minimum?   I eat a lot in volume, but I can eat cheap food and be happy.   I plan on mostly eating rice and beans, and maybe some fruit and vegetables from roadside stands and grocery stores.  

Thank you very much!      ~ryan


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## Harlock (Nov 20, 2010)

Isn't Chiapas bascially a rebel state?  I thought there was an armed rebellion there in the mid 90s that still controls the major cities in the area. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zapatista_Army_of_National_Liberation

(I've seen interviews with them, they don't seem like bad guys, but they would probably be worried to see an American in the area.)


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## Nomadinexile (Nov 20, 2010)

Harlock said:


> Isn't Chiapas bascially a rebel state?  I thought there was an armed rebellion there in the mid 90s that still controls the major cities in the area.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zapatista_Army_of_National_Liberation
> 
> (I've seen interviews with them, they don't seem like bad guys, but they would probably be worried to see an American in the area.)


It was Harlock.   But Zapatista controlled territory is a very small part of Chiapas now.   The rebellion has been over for a decade.   There are still lots of troops and police there, but they are mostly there for drug runners now.  

They aren't bad guys.   They just want to be treated fairly.   As long as you act appropriately, (like not taking pictures of them without permission), they are not a problem, especially for someone like me.    I am not worried about them at all. 

My concern is with the police, drug runners, and some criminals who say they are Zapatistas but are not.   They look and act like them, but they are just looking to extort money from who ever they can.   They are just poor criminals who use the Zapatistas rebellion as cover for their extortion.


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## BrettG (Nov 20, 2010)

Honestly,I would stay the heck away from northern Mexico these days,especially Juarez and the towns in that area...The crap going on down there is in our news almost daily,and is pretty brutal. We saw something on the news last night saying there were 30K murders  in the past 4 years alone(between Juarez and the other border cities with cartel issues).If you go,be very cautious,and consider taking a weapon if you own one/believe in them.I know not everyone does.Not trying to be a jerk,but a lot of the stuff going on down there these days is not even mentioned in the news. The desert areas of SE Az are pretty rough as well( from Tuscon to Douglas)Lots of odd stuff /folkks roaming around out there pretty well armed.... Be safe,travel with others,and keep a close eye on your surroundings..........Brett


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## Nomadinexile (Nov 20, 2010)

BrettG said:


> Honestly,I would stay the heck away from northern Mexico these days,especially Juarez and the towns in that area...The crap going on down there is in our news almost daily,and is pretty brutal. We saw something on the news last night saying there were 30K murders  in the past 4 years alone(between Juarez and the other border cities with cartel issues).If you go,be very cautious,and consider taking a weapon if you own one/believe in them.I know not everyone does.Not trying to be a jerk,but a lot of the stuff going on down there these days is not even mentioned in the news. The desert areas of SE Az are pretty rough as well( from Tuscon to Douglas)Lots of odd stuff /folkks roaming around out there pretty well armed.... Be safe,travel with others,and keep a close eye on your surroundings..........Brett


Thanks for you input Brett.   I read the news everyday.   I am well aware of the conditions in the border towns.   It is very scary.   Though I will say most of the murders involve people involved in the drug trade, politicians, journalists, etc.    There are kidnappings and random murders though.   But that happens in New Orleans too.   

The only "weapon" I will travel with is a crenulated bezeled flashlight, and a pair of scissors or pocket knife.   Anyone who is really dangerous, I will not be able to outgun.   I will have to rely on my street smarts, wit, and communication ability for them.   That is usually the best weapon anyway.

I will keep a close eye on my surroundings as well, but I travel alone, with a few exceptions.   For example, I would love to take a short trip with John.   And I have a few friends in MX who would like to go with me on little trips as well.   But for the most part, it will be me and my backpack.   

A little faith and common sense should get me through.    And if it doesn't, well, the only thing we are promised at birth is death.   We all have our time.   I for one will not bunker down in my house scared of living.    I will live, and then I will die.    Otherwise, I might as well be dead anyway.


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## John Bokma (Nov 21, 2010)

Skimmed fast a bit.

As for cheap meals: the cheapest ones you can buy in restaurants are the so called economico ones and are about 25 pesos (about 2 USD). The meals are small but come with soup, followed by rice/beans with some meat (small), and hardly any vegetables, and often a small desert (jelly). We normally tip around 10-15% so for 2.20 USD you can have a meal that's ok. The side of the road stands are most likely cheaper, so I would get breakfast there. I think you can get something basic for around 1.50 USD, less if you just take something like a "torta" (around 12 MXN).

If you go around April - July you might be able to pick your own fruit. In my experience people have no problem if you just pick a mango or two from their trees. And picking up fallen fruit is even less of a problem.

I have been invited several times to houses of people during hikes (but since we were hiking I had to decline). I really recommend to learn some Spanish. My wife is Mexican, and that really makes quite a difference  Some people do speak some English, and really make an effort to communicate.

Anyway, I have only once had a problem during a hike: someone got angry since we walked between his coffee plants. OK, and one time when looking for C. orizaba an older lady came to us with a machete in her hand (not in an aggressive way but my wife warned me to be careful). She just was curious asked us what we were doing, and when we explained that I was taking photos of animals, and looking for scorpions she told us she had seen one that morning (and about 30 minutes alter I found a gravid female and male :-D).

Most of the times we hike near small towns. We often take a bus from a small city (where we stay, e.g. Tehuacan) to a small town (or a taxi if it's more convenient), hike near the town, and return to "base camp" in the evening.

As for weapons: I strongly recommend not to take any. It's as far as I know (and I might be wrong) illegal to have a gun in Mexico (well, maybe you can get a permit). And like Nomad already wrote if you're not that experienced with shooting at people it's not very helpful (or worse: you might end up killed for your gun...).

As for Chiapas: have hiked there twice, once near Puerto Madero, once near Tapachula (been in Guatamala twice for visa related reasons ;-) ). In Chiapas I had my first (and if I recall correctly only) encounter with corruption: a minibus we were in was halted and the driver had to pay money for each passenger (and extra for me, he was complaining afterwards about that  ) to a police officer that halted us. But other than that I've not seen weird stuff.

Learn Spanish while you can before you go. Even if you can speak a few sentences it's much easier to get around and you can ask local people if the area is sound for walking, etc. While in Mexico try to learn as fast as possible to get a good feel for prices. While rare (in my experience) some people do overcharge. And not just because you're a foreigner, they do it with non-local country people as well. Ask local people for rates of taxi trips if you want to take one. We often use a taxi to get to remote towns (bus takes too much time). And now and then we get a lift back by car. I once sat on top of a mountain of sand loaded on a truck while my wife, mother and daughter sat next to the driver. The road was a bad dirt road so I was going like 

I just recalled this story: http://johnbokma.com/mexit/2008/06/12/police-encounters.html We were walking in an area that was often used by local youth to misbehave (taking drugs/alcohol, we heard), and a few people had reported a "tall americano" with a Mexican female and a child walking in a deserted area to the police, so they came to investigate what was going on. Anyway, the police was very friendly and we had no problems. But that might also have had a lot to do with having a Mexican wife ;-).


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## Nomadinexile (Nov 21, 2010)

John Bokma said:


> Thanks so much John!   Very good information and stories!


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## Aztek (Nov 24, 2010)

Take me. I'll translate.


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## Nomadinexile (Nov 24, 2010)

Aztek said:


> Take me. I'll translate.


Really?   If I have the money to pay your way, I certainly will.   I can't promise anything right now though, it really will depend on how well I do with the rock collecting and sales.   

Of course, If I don't have the cash, you are more than welcome to come anyway.  I plan on guerilla camping the whole way, whether I have money or not.   If you can handle that and hitching, hiking in the deserts and jungles, etc., then by all means, come on!    

I've got an extra hammock and ropes.   All you would need is a light weight sleeping bag or emergency blanket, and the ability to carry tons of water and a little food.   Heck, I've even got an extra headlamp and A49 black light for you!

Do you have a passport?   And when are you free this spring/summer?


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## Nomadinexile (Nov 24, 2010)

BTW, does anyone know if it's possible to do field anesthesia?    The reason I'm asking for those of you that can't figure it out:

I want to be able to do a full description of species in the field.   But would obviously have trouble doing so on an aware, live, and kicking scorpion. 

Any thoughts?   This would be a new experience for me, but I think I can handle it. (Oh, and I know I will need magnification, but how much?  30x, 60x?)


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## skinheaddave (Nov 25, 2010)

Nomadinexile said:


> BTW, does anyone know if it's possible to do field anesthesia?


Depending on how much detail you want to get, there are two ways you could go about this.  The first is to use a ziplock bag or, better still, construct yourself a "squishinator" as layed out here: http://www.exoticfauna.com/arachnoculture/4/AC-i4a4-p2.html and on the following page.

My first trip to Florida in '08 I made myself a variation of the squishinator.  It was small and suited to C.hentzi/guanensis sized critters.  It was two plates of glass with foam attached to each over half of the surface area and a channel cut through the middle.  Tailor's ruler was cut up and placed on the underside of the glass.  You could walk a scorpion in one side on the foam, clamp down, snap a picture, loosen up and prod it to keep walking until it was on the glass on the other half, clamp down, flip, snap picture, release.  Then you had pictures of the bottom and top.  I was primarily concerned with large segment proportions on that trip and it was those photos which convinced me to go further and head to the AMNH, which resulted in my trip later in the year to collect specimens and evaluate those found at the FSCA etc.  

If you want to get into details like denticle counts, precise measurements (for which you will need callipers) etc. then your only shot at alive is the use of CO2.  You will need a sealed reaction chamber with a tube coming out for the baking soda and vinegar.  You will also need a gas chamber of sorts ... something the tube goes into with a small hole at the top to let out the air as it fills up with CO2.  It needs to be sheltered from air movement etc., though, or the CO2 will slosh out.  Might I suggest you build/test something like that before heading out on your adventure.

Magnification-wise, 60x is pretty good as a top limit for most of what you might get up to.  

Lastly, you need to realize that not having any context on Mexican scorpions and not being able to deposit voucher specimens means you will be hamstrung on your ability to actually DO anything with your investigations.    

Cheers,
Dave


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## Michiel (Nov 25, 2010)

Hi John,

Where did you live in The Netherlands? Mexico seems far more dangerous than the Netherlands to me.....I don't know how long you lived in the Netherlands and if you are aware of crime statistics, but your statement sound rather surprising to me 
I realize "safety" is relative, but I still think that I, non spanish speaking Caucasian, am safer here in the Netherlands....

Cheers, Michiel


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## Nomadinexile (Nov 25, 2010)

skinheaddave said:


> "squishinator"
> 
> If you want to get into details like denticle counts, precise measurements (for which you will need callipers) etc. then your only shot at alive is the use of CO2.  You will need a sealed reaction chamber with a tube coming out for the baking soda and vinegar.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your reply and information Dave!

The "squisinator" sounds like it could be good for getting detailed pictures.

I was hoping to count denticles etc. though.  I didn't even think about the baking soda.  I was planning on using Co2 cartridges like the ones for paintball guns.  I am hoping to find a better quality of Co2 that comes in cartridges though.   I can get a decent 60x field scope pretty reasonably.

As for the context and what I will do with the information:

You are correct, I have no context for MX species.   However, there are people that do.   The information I collect will be given freely to scorpionologists who do have that context.   I am sure if I gave interesting information to certain people, they would be able to use that information, or confirm it's status as a new specie, etc,.   If I did find a new specie, they could get the collecting permits so that they, I, or we could go and collect some for deposit within Mexico at a relevant institution.   I am not interested in being rewarded or getting the "glory" of doing the actual description publication.   I would freely and happily let someone else do that.   

On top of this, I would like to confirm myself what species I am seeing.   I know how little visual I.D.'s mean except for a few limited circumstances.   So even if no one is able to use or care about the information I collect, I would be happy just to know which species I found.   And I should be able to get a good Idea of with a relatively basic description!  I think.  

Also, I want to teach myself how to do this.   Even for my hobby activities here, I could use this ability here on poorly labeled imports, or when I am in the deserts of America.   I love being in nature.   I would like to find a job that involves traveling and being in nature.   I think I am on to something with some of the other things I am doing right now.   But I would love to be able to study scorpions while doing this new job.   It's fun and interesting to me.   I don't plan on MX being my last scorpion trip.   I want to go to Central and South America.   I want to go into the Rainforest.    I want to go to Indonesia, I want to go to the Congo someday.   I want to go Libya and Morocco.    If I am able to pull this off over the long run, being able to do this could really add to our knowledge of scorpions, and it's fun for me.  

I like science and learning.   But I will not be going to a University anytime soon, for numerous reasons.    So I will have to teach myself.   But I have the ability to do so.   So I want to give it a shot.   As long as I'm careful with the Anesthesia, there should be no harm caused at very least!  

I know I'm not going to be the next Polis, Sissom, Fet, Kovarik or Francke.   But I can still have fun and add to our knowledge and hobby!


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## Michiel (Nov 26, 2010)

Are you manic, or just psyched up for your trip?


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## skinheaddave (Nov 26, 2010)

I guarantee you that if this plan works as you intend, you are going to run into this situation on several occasions:

"That's really interesting data.  Species x has never been documented living in caves.  We can so publish this data, thereby contributing to the overall base of knowledge shared by hobbyists and professionals alike .. just please tell me you checked to make sure there were four spinules on the bottom of tarsus IV. "

"Err, nope .. but I did count five dentical rows"

"Yeah, but all members of the genus have that .. why did you waste your time anestethiing a scorpion when you could have confirmed the ID using the ziplock method?"

"Sorry, I just didn't read a single paper before leaving, thus giving me no idea where to focus my energy."

"Man, if only you had paid attention to Dave and his make-believe conversations before you risked getting killed by the cartels to bring back this now useless information and either having to put a big * after your observation or introduce another inaccurate guess as fact to the hobby."

Okay, it may not read exactly like that. 

Cheers,
Dave


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## Michiel (Nov 26, 2010)

That is possible what you say there Dave, maybe even likely....I remember writing to Rolando Teruel that my B.jacksoni had two trichobothria on the ventral side of it's chela. "All Buthids have two trichobothria on the.....etc etc .....so I had a little laugh when I read your remark. 

If you don't know what you are looking for, don't gather data just for the sake of "gathering data" rucksichtlos...just have fun, have a good look at scorps and the probably beautyfull sceneries.


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## Nomadinexile (Nov 26, 2010)

skinheaddave said:


> I guarantee you that if this plan works as you intend, you are going to run into this situation on several occasions:
> 
> "That's really interesting data.  Species x has never been documented living in caves.  We can so publish this data, thereby contributing to the overall base of knowledge shared by hobbyists and professionals alike .. just please tell me you checked to make sure there were four spinules on the bottom of tarsus IV. "
> 
> ...


Wow, Dave from the top ropes!   :clap:

Before I go into the important content, I just want to clarify one thing.   While I want to do research while there to the best of my ability, that is not the sole purpose of my trip by any means.  I want to travel and have adventure.  I want to see the forests of S. MX and the mountainous deserts of the Northern half.   I want to learn some spanish, see lots of new animals, and meet new people.   I just don't want to be a tourist going to resorts or walking around staring at the mayans like they are in a zoo.   I want to go and also have a purpose, regardless of how well I can do it.  Like I said in my last post, I know I'm not going to be the next great Scorpion researcher.   But I can try!

As for your imaginary conversation. 

Yes, that is very well a good possibility of how it will go.   I have no doubt that the first few adventures I have, I will screw it up somehow.   That's what happens though when you skip the 8 years of schooling others take to do something!   Heck, I only went to 1.5 years of H.S. and got a ged.   I know the odds are stacked against me contributing anytime soon.   But I do have a good learning ability.   I like to read.   And one day I will surprise you with publishable information I hope!   

I was reading about spinules yesterday actually.   I know denticals aren't the only feature I need to look at!   And I do read a lot of papers, believe it or not.   I haven't read them all, nor could I absorb all that information in a short time even if I did, but I have read all of the english language descriptions of Diplocentrus that I have found.   I have used google translate on one of the spanish descriptions as well.    Now the fact that I am just learning what denticals and spinules are mean that some of this has gone right over my head, but as I progress, I will be able to use the descriptions fully.   I am making a binder of descriptions and translations to have sent to me when it warms up a bit, and I feel comfortable that I have a decent grasp of all the features.   

I need to get the genus key for Diplocentrus.   Even before your commentary, I had already come to the conclusion that for time being, focusing on a genus or two would be the best way to start out.   If I get to the point where I can identify a Diplocentrus, then I will have the ability to branch out to other Genus'.    

“The greatest barrier to success is the fear of failure.”
 Sven Goran Eriksson


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## Nomadinexile (Nov 26, 2010)

Michiel said:


> Are you manic, or just psyched up for your trip?


A little bit of both.  



Michiel said:


> That is possible what you say there Dave, maybe even likely....I remember writing to Rolando Teruel that my B.jacksoni had two trichobothria on the ventral side of it's chela. "All Buthids have two trichobothria on the.....etc etc .....so I had a little laugh when I read your remark.
> 
> If you don't know what you are looking for, don't gather data just for the sake of "gathering data" rucksichtlos...just have fun, have a good look at scorps and the probably beautyfull sceneries.


Ah yes, but you did learn eventually correct?

I can too.   It may be slower, or it may have to be more focused, like one genus for now, one later... But I can learn.   I have a high I.Q., and I like to read.   

I'm not just gathering data for no reason.   I'm trying to learn.   I can't enroll at University, so I will teach myself.   When I come back and post worthless data, tell me where I screwed up.   Then next time, it won't be so worthless!
I can work and study and still enjoy the scenery!  

But I didn't just spend a big chunk of what little money I have before a long trip on a scorpion book because I just want to go "look at the pretty scorpions".     I'm trying to learn.   And I will, in time.


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## John Bokma (Nov 27, 2010)

Michiel said:


> Hi John,
> 
> Where did you live in The Netherlands? Mexico seems far more dangerous than the Netherlands to me.....I don't know how long you lived in the Netherlands and if you are aware of crime statistics, but your statement sound rather surprising to me
> I realize "safety" is relative, but I still think that I, non spanish speaking Caucasian, am safer here in the Netherlands....
> ...


Rotterdam, the neighbourhood called Charlois . I have seen someone running with a gun in his hand running through my street after a failed robbery. Haven't seen that here yet . But I've seen quite some things in Rotterdam and could handle that, so to me Xalapa is very safe, comparable to the small town I went to school when I was a kid.


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## Michiel (Nov 29, 2010)

John Bokma said:


> Rotterdam, the neighbourhood called Charlois . I have seen someone running with a gun in his hand running through my street after a failed robbery. Haven't seen that here yet . But I've seen quite some things in Rotterdam and could handle that, so to me Xalapa is very safe, comparable to the small town I went to school when I was a kid.


Hi John,


LOL....I considered Rotterdam or Amsterdam...I know Charlois.... to be honest, I was once on a metrostation in Hoogvliet in the middle of the night, only white guy there......I didn't feel very at ease 

cheers, Michiel


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## Michiel (Nov 29, 2010)

Nomadinexile said:


> A little bit of both.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think that if you have the capabilities and perseverance, you can accomplish a lot. And yes, the more you read and discuss, the more you will learn. But the more you learn about scorpions, the less you seem to know about them, at least that is how I often feel 
They never cease to amaze me and I am still learning. So go for it! 

Cheers, Michiel


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## metallica (Nov 29, 2010)

Hi Ryan,

Too bad to hear that you are not going now. there is actually a serious collecting trip for tarantulas and scorpions going exactly where you were planning in South Mexico RIGHT NOW! Would have loved to have you aboard. as the car is payed for anyway.

ah well perhaps a next time.

cheers

Eddy


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## Nomadinexile (Nov 30, 2010)

metallica said:


> Hi Ryan,
> 
> Too bad to hear that you are not going now. there is actually a serious collecting trip for tarantulas and scorpions going exactly where you were planning in South Mexico RIGHT NOW! Would have loved to have you aboard. as the car is payed for anyway.
> 
> ...


That is too bad!   

Well, it is what it is.    I can't collect anyway there anyway though.  
On the other hand, It would be nice to go with other hobbyists.

But I'm stuck in this house at least two more weeks.   No option there really.  I told Paige I would stay with her while she's living here.   This is a crazy city, with lots of robberies and murders, so I should honor my word.

There is some good news on me getting down there though.   It won't be right away, but I think it could be sooner than later.   

I have a good place to go work I think... 

I want $1500 in the bank before I go there.   I think I can do that within a month or two of reaching my next destination.    It's going to be a lot of hard work.   It's going to be very cold and wet.   But it will be quiet and peaceful, which I need after so long in cities.   I can get back in my own groove.   I can let my head clear completely.    So when I can finally come, I will be the best I can be.   

Plus, that gives me time to study too!   

It would have been nice to go with you all, but it should be better this way.  Maybe there can be another trip?   If I get really lucky, and have the extra money, I'll pay to rent the car next time.  

*But keep in mind, when I get down south, I'm not leaving for a while.  I might be able to pay for the car, but you will all drive home without me.   Once I get into the forest, it's going to take a major injury, or my tourist visa expiring to get me out!   

We'll get out soon...   ~r


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## skinheaddave (Nov 30, 2010)

Nomadinexile said:


> That's what happens though when you skip the 8 years of schooling others take to do something!


I think you misunderstand the role of formal education in this endeavour.  Do you know how much of my high school and undergraduate dealt with this sort of thing?  Maybe five minutes when they explained how to use a dichotomous key, ten minutes of microscope instruction and maybe a half hour of library orientation. 

There is nothing you will learn in school that you can't learn on your own if you are motivated to. 

That being said, what has allowed me to go beyond just "that's a purty scorpion" in the field?  Hours and hours of reading.  Many good papers sent to me by many good friends (or accessed in the university library .. which can be done by anyone on many campuses .. no access barriers where I went to uni).  Of course if you want a really in-depth understanding of a particular area then you need to look at hundreds of specimens in collections .. but for your purposes, a good look through the literature is what is in order.

It sounds like you are doing more of that then your previously flippant attitude let on.  And yes, you will mess it up.  We all mess it up.  You are right that that leads to learning.  That is no excuse not to prepare as much as is possible, though.  If you can avoid all of the mistakes you would have made on your first trip and make the ones you would have made on your second trip instead, then your second trip becomes your third etc. etc.    If you spend your first trip learning what I can learn in my armchair at home, then you have wasted a trip.  If, on the other hand, you do even half the reading I've done in my armchair and then spend some time in the field, your understanding will quickly rocket past mine.

Cheers,
Dave


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## Nomadinexile (Nov 30, 2010)

skinheaddave said:


> It sounds like you are doing more of that then your previously flippant attitude let on.
> Cheers,
> Dave


*Dave's quote edited by me for brevity, full quote above*

Thank you Dave for your help and suggestions, it is truly appreciated.   However, I feel a bit miffed by the above statement, and want to defend my character.   I do not think you meant it the way I am taking it, but I've been stewing on it all day and want clarify a few things in case you are unaware of my situation.

I'm about to be homeless, partly due to choices I've made in the past, and partly due to others choices.    The details are beyond the scope of AB, but regardless, it is my situation.   I will be homeless starting sometime this month.  

Instead of going out on the streets and begging, stealing, or selling drugs;  I am trying to figure out how to make an honest living, despite carrying everything on my back, having no references, and no real job skills or education.   Not only that, but I am planning a very austere life for myself, so that I can spend time studying scorpions, so that I can grow as a person, and hopefully someday add to humanities knowledge.    I've tried to be very clear that I know my contribution will be very limited, particularly at first, what else could I have said to avoid being "flippant"?    

To me, flippant would be begging, stealing, or selling drugs to avoid working.   To me, flippant would be not reading, not studying anything, or not trying to add to the world.   Just taking, partying, and bumming around, that would be flippant to me.   

I'm not trying to lower the standards of Scientific Research.   I'm not trying to act like this is easy, or I'm the greatest thing to happen to scorpions since the French.   I've tried to be clear about that.

I've just found something that interests me, that I think can have a positive impact on my life, and hopefully I can have a little positive impact on the hobby and science of, even if it is just a little.  

I might be a little goofy or overly upbeat about what I am doing, but honestly, I'm just trying to put a positive face on a tough situation.   I have $5 a day to eat for the next two months.   I have no cooking equipment.   I can't carry a kitchen, or cheap foods to cook like rice and beans.   I have to eat dried ramen, peanut butter, and maybe an apple every couple of days.   I better find some decent work quickly, or I might get scurvy!  

To wrap this up, I'm sorry if you found my comments flippant.   I'm just doing the best I can with very little to work with.   I'm about to be camping in snow and eating the same crummy food every day.   At least let me have some hope that I can still contribute to society someday, please.   

~ryan

P.S.  My computer access will be basically nil for the coming months.   Not until I make some money.   Otherwise I will be in the wilderness working my fingers to the bone trying find it.    But as soon as I have the money to eat for a while, and the constant winter rains stop where I am heading, I will be back to reading daily.   But for now, I have to find a way to survive.


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## Harlock (Dec 1, 2010)

Weird question, you ever consider trying to go to Alaska to make some cash?

I have a friend up there, used his money to get a plane ticket and  camped out while doing day jobs in the city.  He would generally spend 8-12 hours a day throwing 70lbs boxes of frozen fish, but I think you could handle that.  His paycheck for this week was over 1k, and considering if you don't drink, you really don't have anything to spend money on or do besides reading.

If you ever decide to do that, I can hook you up with his email.


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## skinheaddave (Dec 1, 2010)

Nomadinexile said:


> I do not think you meant it the way I am taking it,


Bingo.

Cheers,
Dave


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## Nomadinexile (Dec 1, 2010)

Harlock said:


> Weird question, you ever consider trying to go to Alaska to make some cash?
> 
> I have a friend up there, used his money to get a plane ticket and  camped out while doing day jobs in the city.  He would generally spend 8-12 hours a day throwing 70lbs boxes of frozen fish, but I think you could handle that.  His paycheck for this week was over 1k, and considering if you don't drink, you really don't have anything to spend money on or do besides reading.
> 
> If you ever decide to do that, I can hook you up with his email.


Yes I have.   I have some concerns about that, but it may be my best option coming up.   Do you know when he works up there?   Is it during the summer?   I still have to do some collecting this spring or summer, but after that, I could go up there.    I'm thinking about going up there for some other reasons anyway.   Plus it's one of two states I haven't been to yet.

And I'm not drinking, or anything else right now.   Food, water, oj, tea or coffee, and cigs are all I'm consuming right now.    And I'm going to quit smoking when I get in the woods. (I need to not be around other humans when that goes down.)

You'll see me or hear from me after I collect.   And we'll take it from there.
          *hopefully though, I will be in a position to go south instead of north by then.   



skinheaddave said:


> Bingo.
> 
> Cheers,
> Dave


Good.   I don't care what most people think of me, but I would like for people here to not think badly of me.   I've only heard flippant used in a very negative and derogatory way.   

I know I'm being overly positive about my goals and plans, but if I was being realistic, I wouldn't be any fun.


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## Irene B. Smithi (Dec 1, 2010)

Hey,

Just take care of yourself, enjoy the hobby and can't wait to see what new scorpions you can bring to the table!!

Be careful, I know you've been homeless before... just be careful.  

Best of health to you and loads of fun on your upcoming adventure!!!!


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## Nomadinexile (Dec 1, 2010)

Orchid said:


> Hey,
> 
> Just take care of yourself, enjoy the hobby and can't wait to see what new scorpions you can bring to the table!!
> 
> ...


Thanks Orchid!  I should be fine if I don't get injured.   That and finding some "work".


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## Harlock (Dec 2, 2010)

Nomadinexile said:


> Yes I have.   I have some concerns about that, but it may be my best option coming up.   Do you know when he works up there?   Is it during the summer?   I still have to do some collecting this spring or summer, but after that, I could go up there.    I'm thinking about going up there for some other reasons anyway.   Plus it's one of two states I haven't been to yet.


He is there right now, he went up in August after taking his last course at community college in working on motors.  It is about to start one of the big times of the year, and he is actually pretty annoyed as his family wants him to come and clean out their grandmas house rather than continue working, even though he now makes more than the rest of his family. 

I think he said you can basically go up whenever; they always need workers in processing plants, which is part of what he did.  A large portion of his work came from a day working center where they take down your name and number and companies hire in order on the list.

Once he started making money, he was able to move into a co-op of workers.

He isn't on the mainland, but a smaller island; he made some videos about it, look up the user 'Mistervirtue' on youtube.  I had a link to his channel, but then I realized he has quite the mouth on him and pulled it.


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## Nomadinexile (Dec 2, 2010)

Awesome.   I might just head that way after my spring hunt if I don't have any luck where I'm heading.  Good pay, middle of nowhere..  Sounds perfect.   I need to find out if I would qualify to get hired up there though.  I basically have no references, no job history, and basically don't exist anywhere on paper.   

That usually makes it a bit tough.   I've got a passport and camping gear, and that's about it.   My application will be my name and phone number if my service works there.    

I'm still hoping I get lucky this winter though.   I'd rather spend the next year traveling and taking breaks on the beach, not the hatch deck!  

The work doesn't look too bad.   Hard, but not what I expected.   I've always heard about people working slime lines, which is disgusting and I'd loose a finger or two.  I like my fingers.   I can throw boxes all day long though. 

Thanks for the heads up, that's pretty cool.

Holy Cow!  I just looked at flights there from anchorage... It's cheaper to fly to Dubai From Texas!   wow.


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## Harlock (Dec 2, 2010)

He did break one of his toes doing the work.  He walked it off.

Also, you don't need a resume other than "Can work long periods of time" and "Can lift 70+ pounds of weight"

Flights are the big cost, I think he took a flight into a different city, and a ferry to Anchorage because it was cheaper (and a Greyhound to Oregon.)


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## Nomadinexile (Dec 3, 2010)

I'd hitch to anchorage.   The cheapest I've found is 500 one way to cold bay.  That's still a lot of flow.  We'll see how this winter goes!


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## Nomadinexile (Dec 17, 2010)

I'm heading out in the morning.   Going to NorCal to pan for gold and platinum.   Wish me luck!   If I find much at all, then I can go to Mexico and play with scorpions for a while.

Again, I will miss you all.   See ya all on the flipside.       ~ryan


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## Irene B. Smithi (Dec 17, 2010)

Best of luck!!!


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## BiologicalJewels (Dec 19, 2010)

Nomadinexile said:


> As for Veracruz, I recently received some very exact location of an undescribed and unphotographed Avicularia specie.
> ~ryan


Very interesting.
I do know there was no arboreal tarantula known to Mexico other than the recently found Psalmopoeus sp. (which has been dubbed victorii).
An Avicularia would be a fantastic find!



Oh, yes ,funny, the so called P. victorii also hails from Veracruz ;-)

OR


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