# S.h.castaniceps...a must view thread!



## LaRiz (Jul 3, 2003)

Instead of updating a previous thread on the subject of this particular centipede, I thought it may be better to start a fresh thread.
From the start...Last year, spring I was at the Hamburg, PA show, where I saw a vendor selling large Scolopendra heros castaniceps for $18.  Amongst the centipede was one that was neatly balled up and clutching eggs.  So I figured, there's a good chance that the other may have mated and might drop eggs for me.  So I bought the largest, fattest one.  A couple of months later she did indeed lay eggs.  It's was June, I think. The whole thing went without a hitch.  She cared for them, they developed and they seemed like they wanted to disperse.  They mostly stayed in the vicinity of her, with only a few venturing out to look for food, I take it.  I offered crushed large crickets, which they gang-fed on.  No cannibalism occured.  Not at all.  Since I take terrible records, I could only guess as to how long the whole ordeal took from start to finish.  I'd say a little over 3 months.  Babies were removed, most sold, some died, etc., etc.  Momma was by herself. 
Eating pinkies, roaches, and crickets as normal.  
Then in March her activities ceased, she went underground and molted.  After, she was vibrantly colored and very active.  A real eating machine.
June 15th.  I go to feed her and find that she's caring for eggs again.  
It raises some questions.
Are the eggs fertile?  How can this be?   
Well, today July 3rd I peered in to see if the eggs hatched and yes, they hatched.
So, in this species at least, females can retain sperm for use much later.  Even retaining it after a molt.  Here are the pics, from the start.  Sorry for the repost of old pics, but I thought they might be relevent to this thread. 
Anyways, this raised many more questions.  It can even give a glimpse into the mysterious natural history of a giant centipede.


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## LaRiz (Jul 3, 2003)

*Scolopendra heros castaniceps*

Another pic from the 2002 egg laying and hatching.


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## LaRiz (Jul 3, 2003)

*Scolopendra heros castaniceps*

Another old pic from 2002, showing the babies that dispersed and gang fed upon crushed crickets.
john

Reactions: Like 1


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## LaRiz (Jul 3, 2003)

And here is the pic I took today.
Post embryos are evident.  So I guess the eggs were fertile!
I'm so happy 
In no way was there a mix up.  This is the only adult Scolopendra heros castaniceps in my household.  All the others are either Scolopendra sp. "Puerto Rico", or Scolopendra sp. "Peru".


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## Static_69 (Jul 3, 2003)

wow!
looks like your pedes are egg laying machines!



Risto


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## Henry Kane (Jul 3, 2003)

Man John! That is pretty much breakthrough news man.
Excellent! I had a S. s. dehaani lay a brood after she had molted more than once in my care. Unfortunately she ate the aggs so there was no way to answer the same questions.
Wow, that is very very cool dude. Best of luck with the second brood. 
Maybe I can try to get my dehaani to lay another batch too huh?


See ya.

Atrax


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## Mendi (Jul 3, 2003)

That's really interesting to know, and the pictures are great as usual!!! Good luck with the new brood and send me a PM when you're ready to sell them


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## Steven (Jul 3, 2003)

That's indeed very interesting  
would you consider selling any of your plings overseas ?  

greetz


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## Nikos (Jul 3, 2003)

I know this might sound to bizare.... but have anyone considered that the female didn't actualy stored sperm BUT it was fertilized from one of the small centipedes.

Since we don't know too much about centipedes and especialy about their reproduction, this option should be considered.


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## Wade (Jul 3, 2003)

There's also the possibility of parthenogenesis, although I don't know if that's ever been reported occuring with centipedes before.

I wonder if female centipedes only need to mate once in thier lifetime? 

Wade


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## Phillip (Jul 3, 2003)

*Wade beat me to it...*

I was actually thinking today at work that parthenogenisis couldn't really be ruled out either since after all there is still much to be learned on pedes. I would definately keep a few of the babies and raise them not only to have them but to test the theory. Either way really cool news and congrats on the babies.   Who knows perhaps if they do indeed store sperm that may be why they are such a pain to breed and so bad about killing each other. It may be natures way of keeping the numbers down. Very interesting news anyway though.

Phil


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## LaRiz (Jul 4, 2003)

I thought about parthogenesis, and I would lean  more towards it.  Thing is that they're natural history and reproduction is so mysterious.
Only more questions arise out of this.  Parthogenesis is bizarre and amazing.  It just blows the mind!  Hear about the female Burm python that gave up a litter of healthies without mating? 
Sperm storage cannot be ruled out too.  We really don't know the mechanics of where the sperm is stored and what happens to this area when a 'pede molts.  Do we compare them to the way tarantulas reproduce and this is what sets our minds? 
john


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## Phillip (Jul 4, 2003)

*I heard about the burm.*

That was truly amazing with the burmese. Guess they don't know as much about those as they thought after all.   

Phil


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## Weapon-X (Jul 4, 2003)

*re*

JOHN, congrats on a truly amazing discovery, that is one the coolet things i have ever read about simply amazing, if it turns out they only need to mate once in their lifetime that makes me wonder, imagine if sp. peruvian giants do the same now that would awesome, but regardless THAT is awesome


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## skolopender (Jul 4, 2003)

Hi John,
it's really interesting and i think (!) that i heard such stories already before that centipedes could store the sperm and are able to breed several times.... - but you're right as the reproduction of centipedes isn't really explored upto now, so parthogenesis is possible too.
How much plings did you got - accdg to the 2nd pic i guess more then 20 ?


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## Wade (Jul 8, 2003)

I have not heard about the burm, were all the offspring female as is usually the case with parthenogenesis?

I read an article a couple of years ago about a timber rattler giving birth to a parthenogenic litter that included males as well as females, which is really, really bizzare. Normally with parthenogenic reproduction, the offspring are essencially clones of the mother.

Wade


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## LaRiz (Jul 8, 2003)

I don't think it took long for people to realize that if this was indeed parthogenesis, females would be the sum.  I've gotten many emails regarding the babies.  Yes, I will be offering them here, as I did last year.
Also,
Hey Scott, can you please tell us how your doing with the babies from last years batch?  I'd be interested in hearing how they're doing, how big they are etc.
Here's an update.  
john


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## xBurntBytheSunx (Jul 20, 2003)

maybe it was immaculate conception?


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## LaRiz (Jul 27, 2003)

*Update*

The next step.
If I remember right this is where they become independant.  If it's anything like last years babies, they won't leave momma until they've hardened up.  Once they do, they have this magnificient blue coloration.  Mom seems alittle worn out from this one, perhaps she's on her last leg.
john


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## LaRiz (May 27, 2004)

Well, I guess it's that time of year again for my girl.  Here's a rundown of this gal's history with me:
I aquired her in March '02 I recall.  
June '02, she layed a clutch of eggs.   The babies did fine and I still have two in my possession that are approx. 5" now.  
March '03, she molted.  
June 15, '03, she layed more eggs.  They hatched in July 3rd, '03. 
Oct. 8, '03 she molted.
Then, May 14, '04, I noticed that she made a bowl shaped depression in her substrate.  I figured in order to make a nice spot for her to brood some more babies I'd have to provide a hide.  I put it off for almost two weeks.  Then I threw a towel over her entire enclosure, being the lazy f'er I am.  Two days later...check the pic.  This pic was taken today.  
Now, if these hatch, which I'm guessing they will, parthogenesis? or super sperm storage?--even after two years, and two molts.  We'll see, and of course, look for pics if they hatch.
john


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## Steven (May 27, 2004)

great info !!!

she allready got quite a history   
awsome pede-mom!!!! :}


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## danread (May 27, 2004)

Hi John,

thats great news. It seems that there is definitely a time of year for egg laying, there is a fair few people who have just had new clutches, all around the same time. In my opinion it is almost definitely parthenogenisis, there are too many people who have had eggs laid long after obtaining a pede and having it molt repeatedly. The real proof will be a centipede raised from a pling up to an adult that lays fertile eggs, as i doubt sperm would be transferred whilst they are tiny.
Can you give me an idea of the setup you are using? What temperature is it being kept at, humidity etc? Do you think the egg laying it triggered by a change in temperature, or something like day length? Anyway, good luuck and i hope they are fertile.

Cheers,


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## stemloop (May 27, 2004)

It seems to me there must be an academic or two, somewhere in the world, who would be interested in knowing this, and in doing a few simple tests, if material were available.  10 years or so ago, this would have been a tedious undertaking, but the appropriate molecular biological techniques to confirm parthenogenesis are pretty commonplace these days.  DNA fingerprinting, for example, has gone from the mystical to the mundane.  First, one would need some very basic genetic info about the species:  chromosome number, structure, sex chromosomes, does meiotic recombination occur, a few genetic markers, etc.....and then all that would be required would be a fairly rudimentary lab setup.  It doesn't take much to run a Southern blot.

OK, the more I think about this, the more I wonder if anyone dependent on grant money has ever had the luxury of caring.  Still, I think it would not be ridiculous to freeze or otherwise preserve any dead specimens or eggs--I assume DNA could not be obtained in reasonable quantity from a molt?

Has anyone taken the time to examine published scientific 'pede literature on this topic?  A very quick search turned up some peer-reviewed papers on other genera, and I would be a bit surprised if there weren't similar pubs for Scolopendra.  How many academic investigators read this board?  Many of us are fond of pointing out that, considering the state of the field, hobbyists can make legitimate contributions to academic/scientific knowledge, right?


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## danread (May 27, 2004)

Hi Stemloop,

I'm currently doing a PhD in molecular entomology/ecology. I've got access to lots of journals at my university, and i've spent a lot of time searching for papers on scolopendra. Believe me, there really isn't very much at all. In fact, it really is suprising how little peer reviewed work there is on scolopendra. I've found a few papers on venom, but little to nothing on ecology and reproduction. As you said, it really is an area where hobbyists can contribute a lot!
I think the main problem has been a lack of funding, scolopendra arent significant in terms of agriculture, economy, and because so little is know about the species, in conservation either. 
One of my colleagues has got a travel grant to go to Hawaii later this year to colect samples to study food web interactions on the island of Kauai. I've asked him to collect me enough samples of the native scolopendra so i can carry out gut analysis of what they are eating, using PCR (which is the field i'm working in). It's not a part of my PhD, but i might get a paper out of it hopefully. There is nothing i'd like more than to study scolopendra, you could do years of work just studying Scolopendra subspinipes at a molecular level, and making phylogenetic trees, but unfortunately the lack of funding is always going to be a problem.


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## Swifty (May 27, 2004)

Congrats John! You've done some great work here, and what a break thru! I'd think about an article on this, you definately have enough photos and info. It sure would be nice to see one in E&A's Invertebrates Magazine....hint hint....


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## Bob (May 27, 2004)

Great !!!
I have three S.Heros coming in Friday. I was going to start buying these, try and sex them and then mate....might be better to just keep them seporate and hope for females!!

Bob


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## stemloop (May 28, 2004)

danread said:
			
		

> I'm currently doing a PhD in molecular entomology/ecology. I've got access to lots of journals at my university, and i've spent a lot of time searching for papers on scolopendra.


Dan, it sounds like you should know about the literature, and I'm disappointed to hear there is so little on Scolopendra.  I did a search of my own last night, and came up with 37 published papers on Scolopendra.  1 was about locomotion, and 36 were about venom.  Roughly half were unavailable in English (mostly Chinese, with a couple Italian and one Russian researcher).  That's my long way of saying "I guess you're right!"



			
				danread said:
			
		

> I think the main problem has been a lack of funding, scolopendra arent significant in terms of agriculture, economy, and because so little is know about the species, in conservation either.


That's pretty much what it comes down to these days.  If you don't have a lot of money, or aren't costing somebody a lot of money, nobody notices you!



			
				danread said:
			
		

> One of my colleagues has got a travel grant to go to Hawaii later this year to colect samples to study food web interactions on the island of Kauai. I've asked him to collect me enough samples of the native scolopendra so i can carry out gut analysis of what they are eating, using PCR (which is the field i'm working in). It's not a part of my PhD, but i might get a paper out of it hopefully.


This sounds like a good opportunity.  I'm confused, though, about where PCR figures into gut content analysis??  Anyway, good luck with your studies!

Todd


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## danread (May 28, 2004)

stemloop said:
			
		

> This sounds like a good opportunity.  I'm confused, though, about where PCR figures into gut content analysis??


I can give you a few references of the work done by my group if you want. Here is one by my supervisor that explains a bit, although some of it is now out of date.

Symondson, W. O. C. (2002). "Molecular identification of prey in predator diets." Molecular Ecology 11(4): 627-641.

Basically, we are using oligonucleotide primers designed to only amplify specific target species of invertebrate prey. For instance, a lot of the work is done on British agricultural systems (as that is where the funding is). Carabid beetles are used as a good generalist predator model, although work has also been done on spiders, parasitic nematodes (me), predatory flies, and now the hawaiian food web work. By designing primer pairs that will only amplify specific species of pest species, such as aphid, or slug, it is possible tell if that predator is eating the pest species in the field. This is done by dissecting out the gut (or in small organisms, using the whole body), extracting the DNA and running our species specific primers. A postive will be indicated by a band on an agarose gel. This is useful for building up a picture of food web interactions, and what species should be encouraged to improve biological control of agricultural pests. 
I'm really enjoying the work i do, i find predator prey interactions really interesting. I'm sure it's where some of my interest in Scolopendra comes from! It would be great to apply some of these techniques to Scolopendra, as nobody knows for sure what they are feeding on most of the time, and it is sure to change at different times of the year. Also, because of the fact that the species are so unstudied, it is quite possible that some are extremely rare or close to extinction, so it might be possible to get funding. I know i'll definitely look into it when i finish my PhD!

Cheers,


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## LaRiz (Jun 16, 2004)

*update on egg*

Well, I guess we'll never know.  She ate them only a couple of days later.
I suspect they were infertile.  I guess I should look for a male.
john


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## danread (Jun 16, 2004)

I'm sorry to hear that John. Did the eggs look any different to previous batches that were fertile? I'm wondering if there is any way to tell early on if they are fertile or not?

Cheers,


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## LaRiz (Mar 4, 2005)

*That time of the year...again?*

Will I be digging this thread up every year?  Anyway, she did it again.  Last years eggs were eaten.  This year, there aren't that many to begin with, unless I caught her in the middle of laying them.  She's cleaning them as I type this.  Same as before, she molted before laying this set and the usual bowl shaped depression, reduced eating, ect. before today.  I'd really like for this set to hatch, but I'm not really optimistic about that.
john


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## Steven (Mar 4, 2005)

That's indeed a small Hatch,...

But intresting she did it again   





Can't explain it in English,... but the graphic i've made maybe explains what i think can be the case with reproduction of scolopendromorphs

click


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## MrDeranged (Mar 4, 2005)

On a related note, the last of the babies that I got from you a couple of years back was found dead last night.  Not sure what happened, it was eating good and looking good.  

Oh well


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## LaRiz (Mar 4, 2005)

Scott,
How big was it?  I have two babies left from the first batch and they're a little over 6" now.


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## MrDeranged (Mar 4, 2005)

was probably about 5 to 5.5.  don't know what happened...


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## J Morningstar (Mar 5, 2005)

I believe Mr Internet diagnosed the cause, it is the same with most invert pets..."thenonedayitjustupandieditius"  
Sorry to hear of the loss.


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## cacoseraph (Aug 10, 2005)

holy crap!
this thread is amazing!

the pictures and info are must read for centipede person!


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## Bigboy (Aug 10, 2005)

That was one helluva read.


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## Mandi (Aug 21, 2005)

did they hatch this time? just curious


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## cacoseraph (Dec 7, 2005)

bump

this thread is way too cool to be on page 5 or whatever 

for those of you just tuning in.... LaRiz has a well documented case of a S.h.c throwing multiple litters in multiple years without being re-bred each time!

amazing read!


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## cacoseraph (Mar 30, 2006)

cacoseraph said:
			
		

> bump
> 
> this thread is way too cool to be on page 5 or whatever
> 
> ...


rebump... new centifriends should read this!


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## dirtborder4life (Mar 30, 2006)

*reproduction*

Very interesting read.I am also curious as to whether the last batch hatched.


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## bistrobob85 (Mar 30, 2006)

Yeah, go on with the thread, can't wait to know whats up, not to mention to see the pics !!!!


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## Stylopidae (Sep 12, 2006)

Bump...we have a lot of new members, all of which may find this interesting


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## dragontears (Sep 17, 2006)

I'm currently working as a histotech in a vet diagnostic lab.  Therefore I have access to lots of fun toys and people that have some clue as to what the insides of different animals look like.  I've already talked to one of the pathologists about the potential of looking at a dead pede, performing a gross necropsy on it and then processing it for histology where I would section it and put it on slides on my own time.  I then have the access to the scope with the nifty camera attached so I can take pictures of whatever I section.  


My question...would this be worth anything to you pede fanatics out there?  and if so... What should I specifically be looking for?  If I'm sectioning a pede, would sagital sections or cross sections be more useful?  (If I have more than one pede, I'd like to try both ways, but I'm not sure if that will be an option)

This came up because my female S. alternans currently has a clutch of fertilized eggs just past the egg stage but not mobile yet.  I got her in January and I haven't seen her since March...needless to say, I didn't even know she was a female, much less gravid until I found the eggs.  I found this thread and all the questions it brought up and I was talking to people at work and they suggested that if one of my plings dies I should bring it in to study.  What do you guys think?


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## cacoseraph (Nov 15, 2007)

good lord! over a year since this got bumped!?


read all about a well documented case of a scolopendromorph centipede storing sperm over multiple years AND multiple molts.  they don't shed their sperm storage receptical lining like tarantulas do. is nice!


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## arrowhd (Nov 16, 2007)

This is an amazing thread.  I just purchased this species as my first centipede.


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## cacoseraph (Mar 15, 2008)

bumpity bump


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## Staehilomyces (Aug 21, 2017)

*bump*
This is a must read thread for any aspiring centipede breeders. Members prior had been bumping this thread up annually for the sake of informing new members - I shall continue the tradition.

I would also like to add that one of my E. rubripes (not Poisonous Insect, a smaller one) laid eggs last year, which she later ate. A few months ago, she dug a large pit in the substrate, as described by the posts on this thread, but eventually abandoned it for some reason. Now, she's at it again, and after reading this, I have got my fingers crossed for some nice half green/tiger E. rubripes babies.

Reactions: Helpful 1


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