# Pine wood chips



## Joe Xavier (Dec 7, 2006)

I understand pine chips are toxic for snakes? I keep my mice with pine chips, does that mean I have to clean it up real good before feeding it to the snake? In case there are pine residue on them?


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## Mushroom Spore (Dec 7, 2006)

Pine chips, as well as cedar, are toxic to EVERYTHING. Take the mice off it, too, and give them aspen or something.


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## Joe Xavier (Dec 7, 2006)

ah!
dang... how come they produce it especially for mice then? It doesnt make sense....


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## Mushroom Spore (Dec 7, 2006)

Joe Xavier said:


> ah!
> dang... how come they produce it especially for mice then? It doesnt make sense....


Because people will buy it. Same reason they still sell hot rocks for reptiles, despite the tremendous amount of horrific injuries they cause on a regular basis (ask any given reptile vet).


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## arachnocat (Dec 8, 2006)

I just mixed some new organic potting soil in with my coconut bark for a new terrarium. After re-reading the back of the package I saw that it said it was softwood sawdust was one of the ingredients! :8o  Luckily I didn't put my spidy in yet. I usually mix my own substrate from vermiculite, peat and coco bark but thought I would save some time with the organic stuff. Good thing I caught it in time.


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## Dom (Dec 8, 2006)

I know people who have been raising their rodents and many of their herps for over 20 years using pine shavings and chips (alpha chips). I know of multigenerational sand boa breeding where the adults (now nearly 20 years old) have been kept on pine their whole lives. And this is a species that spends much of it's life submerged under the substrate. There is no problem using it. All the mouse breeders here use pine shavings also. All our herps are living to a ripe old age .
Cedar is the wood that is toxic to herps and shouldn't be used. 
Cedar and pine are both "coniferous" species and I think people are just assume if cedar is toxic then pine must be also.


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## Mushroom Spore (Dec 8, 2006)

Dom said:


> There is no problem using it.


Please don't say everything's fine just because you either haven't noticed or have lucked out thus far. I don't mean to be rude, but a little anecdotal evidence does NOT prove all the scientific studies wrong.  

http://www.trifl.org/cedar.shtml
http://www.afrma.org/rminfo2.htm
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=pine+toxic+"small+animals"&btnG=Search

Cedar and pine are both toxic to humans as well, particularly noted in the first link.


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## Vanilla (Jan 5, 2007)

Pine and cedar are both toxic to animals.They contain phenols which are not good on the respitory tracts!


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## kitty_b (Jan 5, 2007)

i always kept my hamsters and guinea pigs on cedar shavings when i was a kid.

never had a problem. it's scary to think about now. then again, it's like looking back on the things we now know cause cancer, like benzene, and go "what the heck were we thinking??"


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## Vanilla (Jan 5, 2007)

kitty_b said:


> i always kept my hamsters and guinea pigs on cedar shavings when i was a kid.
> 
> never had a problem. it's scary to think about now. then again, it's like looking back on the things we now know cause cancer, like benzene, and go "what the heck were we thinking??"


Yeah,when I first got into rodents as pets way back when,I used pine and cedar because I didn't know any better.It was cheap to buy and was sold for rodents...after awhile I learned the truth.

Now my rodents get aspen mixed with Yesterdays News.It is absorbant and safe! :worship:


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## Taceas (Jan 6, 2007)

I joined a rodent breeder forum and surprisingly most of them use pine with their rodents. Some people and quite a few rodents are actually allergic to aspen.

I've found since I switched from aspen back to a high quality pine shaving bedding my mice have been doing a lot better. 

I used pine for years before I knew any better as well and I never had an issue. *shrug*


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## Vanilla (Jan 7, 2007)

I am in 4 rat forums and every single one is against pine and cedar because they are toxic.If you go into them and say you use pine,they will all tell you how bad it is.Actually pretty much everyone I know who has rodents will not use pine and use aspen or something else thats safe.Me or these people have not had problems with aspen.Well I know a few people who had animals allergic to aspen,but I have had rats allergic to "carefresh" as well...which is also a safe product.They can be allergic to food,litters,other items...not just aspen or other litter.

Pine and cedar contains phenols,which ARE bad on the lungs.Aspen does not contain phenols.However aspen and other wood type litters can be dusty and this is what causes allergies alot of the time.It has been proven that pine and cedar are bad.


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