# Uropygi Information



## Ganoderma

Was wondering if we could get a thread going on Uropygi information.  there is some good stuff ou tthere but i have a hard time finding it.  Some good stuff here as well.

here is a start, please add to it.

SYSTEMATICS OF THE ARACHNID ORDER UROPYGIDA http://www.americanarachnology.org/JoA_free/JoA_v1_n1/JoA_v1_p55.pdf

THE NEGLECTED COUSINS: WHAT DO WE KNOW ABOUT THE SMALLER ARACHNID ORDERS?
http://www.americanarachnology.org/JoA_Congress/JoA_v30_n2/arac-30-02-357.pdf

STEP-COUPLED FLUCTUATIONS IN PROSOMAL PRESSURE MAY CONSTRAIN STEPPING RATES IN WHIPSCORPIONS
http://www.americanarachnology.org/JoA_free/JoA_v20_n2/JoA_v20_p148.pdf

*Very General info sites:*
Trithyreus shoshonensis http://www.natureserve.org/explorer/servlet/NatureServe?searchName=Trithyreus+shoshonensis

the wiki i guess...  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uropygi

a nice simple list of family, genera and specie.  i am not too sure how accurate it is though... http://insects.tamu.edu/research/collection/hallan/Uropygi1.txt

a book: "Catalogue of the Smaller Arachnid Orders of the World: Amblypygi, Uropygi, Schizomida, Palpigradi, Ricinulei and Solifugae"

Here is a photo e-mailed to me sexing Typopeltis crucifer.  Sorry i dont know who to credit, so post if its your or if you dont want it posted.





and here is a photo of the above sp with eggs.







any more?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Nikos

Fully agree with your idea.
I'll check my files to see if I have any more Uropygi papers and post it here.

Credit for the sexing photo goes to Jeremy Huff and I dont think the species is Typopeltis crucifer, I think its a species from Thailand ?? but I'm not sure.


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## Steven

indeed a very good idea, maybe we should also make it an
Uropygi appreciation-tread ?

i only have the articles allready mentioned in the first post,... 
but maybe these pictures will ad some info  

- some experimental feeding (baked bacon):






- mating process:
















- pix _Mastigoproctus giganteus_

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## rex_arachne

excellent idea. this will be a thread to learn more about Uropygids. thanks.


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## Ganoderma

awsome photos!  papers would be great!  anything though that is usefull!

I was wonderin about thsoe sexing pics and specie as well (although i think t. crucifer is found in Thailand, no?).  Either way mine look very similar to the photos so i am thinking they are at least Typopeltis sp.  i have seen a couple other good websites about it but cannot find them anymore.  lets keep updating this one.


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## RodG

*Great Idea!!!*

Great idea Ganoderma:worship:  And amazing photos Steven:clap: :clap: :clap:  Hope this thread keeps growing

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Goliath

I will put some in.  M. giganteus, first instars.

mike


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## RodG

Great photo and congratulations!!!


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## Nikos

here's a Chinese species on eggs                      






and here they are mating


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## Ganoderma

Awsome photos!!

Mike do you have any information about the breeding, incubation etc for those guys?  how long did the eggs take?  first/second instar?  anything would be great.  nice pics!!!

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## Goliath

Ganoderma,

There is an article coming out in an upcoming Invertebrate magazine article that will describe the whole process.

Thanks,
mike


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## kahoy

very informative, thanx for the thread and posts...

so who got any articles and pics regarding these species. from PH. 

Thelyphonus pugnator
Abaliella manilana
Glyptogluteus angustus
Thelyphonus hansenii
Thelyphonus semperi
Thelyphonus vancorti

im wondering why M. manilanus is lost.


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## rex_arachne

Minbosius manilanus is included in the PDF.


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## Steven Gielis

@ Steven: What kind of soil mixture are you using at Mastigoproctus?


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## Steven

Steven Gielis said:


> @ Steven: What kind of soil mixture are you using at Mastigoproctus?


i'll answer this in Dutch  
"een bodemlaag van zwarte potgrond,... daarboven een laag leem/potgrond, bovenste laag leemzand gemengd met rivierzand."


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## Goliath

This thread is a very nice addittion for these inverts that don't get that much publicity.  

Here are a couple more pics.

mike

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## rex_arachne

cool pics!


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## Ganoderma

How in the heck did you get those pics?  were against the glass?  amazing!  All mine managed to burrow in the middle of the cage...

is the article you are talking about by Jack Brookhart?  I am waiting for that one, but thought it was about Solifugae, no?


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## Nikos

Here is a pic I posted before but since this is an Uropygi specific thread I think it deserves to be included 







Here is a big copy of the same photo with lots of detail available in case someone needs it. 

@ Mike I love your photos and especialy the 4th one!! simply amazing!!


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## Goliath

Ganoderma,

Thanks and she burrowed from the middle of the cage all the way down to the bottom glass at the back of the cage. 

The article I am talking about is one I wrote on breeding M. giganteus, it should be out soon in Invertebrate magazine.  

rex_arachne,

Thanks.

vardoulas,

Thanks and awesome picture.  I love it when they do that, great shot of it.  I like the fourth one too, it reminds me of a cave in a bad science fiction B movie. 

Thanks,
mike


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## Ganoderma

is the fourth one a cage with plants?  are those roots?  happen to have a full enclosure photo?  

Is that magazine available singly?  i will take a look and see what its about   thanks!

EDIT:  for some reason i cannot edit my first post...anyone know why?  i can edit others.  anyway i wanted to add links to the first one to keep it organised.  her eit is anyway.

This one has some pics and such, but its in spanish.  http://www.bloobook.net/browse/arachnida.php?lg=es

not too usefull but provides some info on new chinese sp. http://www.wanfangdata.com.cn/qikan/periodical.Articles/dwfl/dwfl2000/0003/000309.htm


Whipscorpions (Arachnida, Thelyphonida) from Africa http://digitallibrary.amnh.org/dspace/bitstream/2246/2732/1/N2526.pdf


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## Ganoderma

Well great news for me today!  my T. crucifer eggs hatched!!!  its 2 am and no signs of any sleep...here is a picture, also check my other thread on these guys.  i am pumped!!!

They took around 16 days to hatch at a temp of around 25-27 during the day and down to about 20c at night.  This female had not dug out a hide despite being in the container for over 2 months.

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## Nikos

16 days only????


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## Goliath

Ganoderma,

Fist of all congrats!:clap:   I can't believe it was only 16 days, that seems really quick, but it is a tropical species so that may play a big part.  

The fourth picture of mine is the babies hanging from the roof of the cork which she made her burrow around.  The whips/flagella are what are hanging down.  

Usually the magazine comes as a subscription but it maybe sold individually.  Check at http://www.angelfire.com/oh3/elytraandantenna/.

Thanks,
mike


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## Ganoderma

yes it was quick i was very surprised as well.  they were laid on October 29th.  hatch date was November 13th.  counting both days that’s 16 days.  Now the question is how long till they shed?  how long till they separate from the mother and how long till maturity.  anyone know?  i am starting to second guess the species ID.  T. crucifer in one paper i read says the type specimen was from Thailand, but other sources say Taiwan and china.  I am wondering if perhaps there is an identification problem?  anyone know where i can find keys to the specie level?  I didn’t think that crucifer had that big a range.  i am wondering if perhaps they are T. stimpsoni?


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## Jeremy Huff

Hi All,

I just saw the thread and think it is great to get more info out on these animals.  

About the identity of the Typopeltis, if you have a close-up photo of the palps of the male, I could identify it.  I will go through my papers to see what the defining characteristics are for the group.  If they are from Taiwan though, they are crucifer.  T. stimpsoni is from Japan and a few small islands off the southern tip.

The two photos I took to show sexing were Typopeltis crucifer (I think, it was a while ago), but they could have been Thelyphonus...

I have found sand with a little peat to be the best substrate because the like to burrow and damp sand can easily be burrowed into.  For M. giganteus I have kept them in large gallon or 2 gallon jars with an angled piece of bark that goes all the way to the bottom.  Then I add the sand/peat mix (80/20) and bury the bark.  The animal will burrow down and under the bark when they have fully eaten enough for the winter.  In every case, I could easily see their chamber through the bottom of the jar.  They would plug the burrow and stay down for 5-7 months.  Gravid females would lay and eggs hatch and nymphs moult all underground.  Only then will they come up to feed.  Another interesting thing I found was that after one year the first instars had their first moult.  80 of them shed within two days of each other and they were all in seperate containers.  

A bit about longevity - from Justin Schmidt's work with M. giganteus
There are 4 immature stages and on the fith they are mature.  It is 1 year per stage, so adults are 4 years old and can live upto another 4 years, but usually only 2 years.  In the wild, Justin has found that they have no predators to speak of and die of old age.

For anyone interested I am volunteering/working in Lorenzo Prendini's lab at the American Museum of Natural History.  I have done several fieldtrips for arachnids and on our website there are photo logs of many of our trips.  You can see many uropygid photos there.
http://scorpion.amnh.org/

Jeremy

Reactions: Like 1


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## rex_arachne

excellent! thanks for the link.


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## Ganoderma

Wow great info!  i will have more questions surely!

about T. stimpsoni .  the reason i mentioned them is because i was wondering how far south they actually went.  i was thinking it could be possible for them to reach down here?  just a thought...any opinions.


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## rex_arachne

would it be possible for this thread to become a sticky?


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## Jeremy Huff

*Typopeltis crucifer/stimpsonii*

T. stimpsonii is distributed from Kyushu in the north to Izena (northern extreme of Okinawa) in the south

T. crucifer is from Taiwan and the Ryukyu Islands as far north as Iheya in northern Okinawa

I don't see anything in the literature about the 2 species being sympatric although they come close.

Hope this helps

Jeremy


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## Jeremy Huff

*Philippine*

Kahoy,

In regards to your question about various Philippine species.  Thelyphonus pugnator is now Mimoscorpius pugnator.  The Philippines was an erroneus locality.  They are actually from Guatemala.  I went there this summer and collected specimens, including the first females recorded.  You can see a photo at scorpion.amnh.org under the field trip section and Guatemala.  The male is very interesting.  I am working on a paper with a couple other guys at this time which will have some great photos of the male and female.

Glyptogluteus is only known from Panay Island and only from a single male and a juvenile.  I would love some if you can ever get any.

Hope this helps
Jeremy


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## Ganoderma

We are going to the philippenes for a couple weeks most likely next year.  do you have any tips or pointers on locations.  I am very interested in photographing various arachnids.

It seems they have a few sp.  I find the species from there a little confusing as far as classification goes though,  do you have any suggested reading on the subject?  specifically SE asias islands.


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## Jeremy Huff

Gandoderma -

The only recent work on Asian uropygi has been done by Dr. Joaquim Haupt

Revision of East Asian whip scorpions (Arachnida Uropygi Thelyphonida). I. China and Japan
J Haupt, D Song - Arthropoda Selecta, 1996 
AND
Revision of East Asian whip scorpions (Arachnida Uropygi Thelyphonida) II. Thailand and adjacent …
J Haupt - ARTHROPODA SELECTA, 1996 
Both of these papers are in the same issue.  They deal mainly with the genus Typopeltis.

In 1973, Dr. Mark Rowland did 3 papers on uropygids.  One of which was on the Philippines.  This is the paper he described Glyptogluteus.  

In talking to collectors in the Philippines, you can commonly find them under piles of palm fronds and also in mammal holes where they will live in groups.  I have heard of areas in SE Asia where you can't avoid stepping on them at night.  I am sure this is only during certain times of year.  I know in New Mexico, when it rains or when watering a lawn, M. giganteus will climb a few inches off the ground on the sides of houses and you can also find them on sidewalks after a rain.  We found Mimoscorpius pugnator inside rotton logs and in Agouti and Armadillo holes.  Also check tree trunks at night, especially at the base.

Hope this helps
Jeremy


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## Ganoderma

is this where i can order it from?  http://www.orc.ru/~kmkweb/arthropoda_selecta.htm

thanks for the help!  very usefull information!  do you happen to have articles, papers, publications on your collections in the americas?


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## Jeremy Huff

That is the site.  Check if they have a reprint.  If not, I can try to scan my copy and send it to you.

Jeremy


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## Ganoderma

Excellent thanks a ton!  It says they sell them so I e-mailed.  If I cant order it I'll let you know.  Thanks again.  Nice to start finding some better information about these animals!


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## Ganoderma

More good news!  the second female hatched out her young!  It was truely amazing as i got to watch them hatch this time!  talk about good timing!  Trust em i really tried to get some good pictures of the hatching process but i failed.  i did not want her to get stressed.  Although she was already eating babies when i found her   even if i loose them all i feel very happy about being able to witness them hatching!  this one took 21 days to hatch.  they were "laid" on November 07 2006 and hatched today, November 27 2006.  Enough talk here is the only pictures i got that were even half decent....the jars are covered in dirt, so trust me it wasn't easy...

Eggs that were dropped for some very odd reason...But you can see them starting to come out.






the hungry mother with her meals.






My attempt at getting a picture of them hatching.  you can see them hatching if you look hard enough.  sorry.






Anyway i am super excited.  i will likely loose more sleep tonight.  i love watching baby animals emerge!


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## rex_arachne

excellent photographs Ganoderma. did the female eat all her offspring? none survived?


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## Ganoderma

They are still hatching right now (11 pm taiwan time).  i am leaving her completely alone for a few days in hopes she will stop....  i hope she stops, but in reality a got another 40+ from the other female.  i am very anxious for them to become 2nd instar so that i can take a look see at the mom and see how her plumbing looks.


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## kahoy

hi!, there are commonly found on log litters, mostlikely near on rivers, also try to look at nearby trees ar ponds and swamps, and if you are lucky you can find a lot on dead bamboo, they seek refugie on the hollow stems of bamboo, and since where bamboo lives is humid, there is a big chance of finding plenty of them.

most of the locations where we go are at panay, cebu, negros, upper luzon 

i wonder if you can look at the unexplored terrains of mindanao, there are a lot of unusual inverts on mindanao like the golden stagbeetle, unfortunately there are a some terrorists that hide at the mountains.


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## Ganoderma

More good news!  The first female’s babies are now finished their first shed and off mommies back!  She seems like a good mother as i did not notice any eating of babies and I got 47 babies from her!  44 are now alive, 3 were dead when i found them.  Most were up on the sides of the jars huddles together.  i now have them separated and will be feeding them tomorrow.  

To recap this one took 16 days to hatch and 32 days to shed.  Not too bad.  I only took a couple pictures and my computer (which has all my biology stuff) has completely stopped working!  I will get the pictures up shortly.  

I thought these numbers may interest some.


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## Ganoderma

here is one photo i go tof the hatched babies...sorry i didnt get any good ones.  they all turned out super dark (took them really late) and had to brighten them a bit...sorry.

The second females babies have not shed yet, and wil liekly shed when i am in canada   hopefully she will leave me some babies when i get back.


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## Maikardaaion

Here is _Typopeltis crucifer_, mother with the little ones and then the babies alone. 































Little buggers are spraying vinegaroon all over the enclosure


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## Ganoderma

any idea on their locality.  i have seen pictures of t. crucifer like that but never saw any in person that red.


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## Maikardaaion

http://www.spidy.goliathus.com/english/typopeltis-crucifer-id158.html

This is the website of the dealer I got this specimen from. I cannot be 100% sure if the species I have realy is T. crucifer i can only base my knowledge on the dealers information.


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## Stylopidae

How do Uropygids produce vinegar?


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## Ganoderma

i have read that different genera have different chemical makeups.  But they all seem to be made up of at least acetic acid and a couple others in varying amounts.

i have not found much more about the subject other than this link.  there are articles for sale which look nice (from the abstracts).

http://www.hup.harvard.edu/pdf/EISSEC_excerpt.pdf


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## M.F.Bagaturov

Jeremy.
Check the sex markings on Your pic with sexing Uropigids, please (they are wrong).
I wonder, who else have noted this but never asks?

Hapilly, I starts to interesting with this group recently, so I'me very interesting in building seriouse data for whipscorps like I've done for the theraphosids, so I invite any of You seriousely keeping this group to join the information exchange with the related info.
Especially it is interesting to find a people who is making this group as the part of their professional interest. Unfortunately MarkHarvey as well as Carlos Viques are unavailable via www, at least in my case.

Unfortunately it is only 3 speciew since so known entering the Russia border so to have also a possible way to obtain em here would be great and i have a good channal for it from Czech Rep.

Thanks for Your attention and feel free to annoing me on the subject!

BTW. Jasu Nikos!


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## M.F.Bagaturov

O.k., I've found there're no people seriousely interesting in this group so relax and don't pay attention to my above post!
Bye!

Moderators! Please!
Delete both of my last posts!

Thanks in further.


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## Ganoderma

?

anywho why is it wrong?  do you have a better method?  i have not seen breeding in mine so i can only say for certain that i have 2 females.  if i saw mating then i could start making some camparisons.


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## M.F.Bagaturov

Hello!
I mean that labels on the pic is mixed up (confused)
The specimen on the left is the male and on the right - female.
The same method... just a mistake, my friend... the labels should be changing places...

I wonder, does Jeremy Huff still interesting in this group? Anybody knows?


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## Ganoderma

yes he is.  i will leave him to edit it as its his photo.  What are you basing yur sexing technique on?  

i will snap a pic of my girls underside for comparison.


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## M.F.Bagaturov

Hello!



Ganoderma said:


> yes he is.  i will leave him to edit it as its his photo.  What are you basing yur sexing technique on?


From well-known I believe to You paper:
SYSTEMATICS OF THE ARACHNID ORDER UROPYGIDA http://www.americanarachnology.org/J...JoA_v1_p55.pdf
It is describes it wery well for different genera of whipscorps...

And here's the typical female anal sternit of asiatic uropygid fauna


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## M.F.Bagaturov

And here's the sternit of Mastigoproctus nara (from Costa Rica):
http://attila.inbio.ac.cr:7777/pls/..._old_code?p_oldimageId=35413&p_oldImageFile=1
And this is a description by Carlos Viques on sexual determination in em as well: 
"M. nara se caracteriza por tener un caparazón delgado, el macho posee todos sus tergitos del abdomen enteros, la hembra posee el primero y segundo tergito divididos totalmente.. Los omatoides son redondeados en ambos sexos, los pedipalpos dan una apariencia rugosa y están cubiertos de pequeñas espinas, lo cual se presenta tanto en adultos como en individuos inmaduros."
Hope this helps also.


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## Jeremy Huff

Hi Mikhail,

Sorry for my delay in writing.  I finally dug up the specimens I photographed several years ago for the sexing images.  They are a Chajanus sp. from Indonesia I got many years ago from Bryant Capiz.  The photos are reversed, good eye.  I am not sure if it was my mistake or the person I originally sent them to.  It was likely mine...Sorry for the confusion.  I will try to get some images for sexing M. giganteus up soon.  There is much less sexual dimorphism in this species than Asian species.  You also see this genital swelling in Thelyphonellus amazonicus from South America.

Jeremy


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## M.F.Bagaturov

Thanks for Your responce Jeremy.

Would be interesting to see.

Bryant.. uooh... great man has gone ;( but the name still exists, that's good!

I will think that it would be useful to cooperate for all us who interesting in this arachnids...
If You feeling the same, I think at least we can be useful for each other and for hobby in whole.
Looking further for Your pics!


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## Ganoderma

the above picture is fixed, does that look right?  hope you dont mind me changing it.


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## Jeremy Huff

Hi Ganoderma,

The error is on the photo in the very first post in this section by you.  The specimen with the swelling is the male and the other is a female.  I can't remember if I wrote on the images or someone else...

Mikhail,

I am very interested in this group.  I am finishing up a paper as we speak on Mimoscorpius pugnator with Carlos Viquez, Luis de Armas and Lorenzo Prendini.  I have a few other papers on the go...What was the Asian species you have photographed?  I am always looking for new material for breeding projects and DNA studies.  

I am off to South Africa tomorrow to collect scorpions, so I will be offline until March.

Jeremy


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## M.F.Bagaturov

REally interesting Jeremy!
THose are 3 great men with decent knowledge in the group.
I wish You good luck in Your SAR trip and researches.

This asian species on the foto is that known in hobby as "Minbosius manilanus" but sure, I have no knowledge in uropigy taxonomy to prove or tell does this name right.
See You!


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## Nikos

Hi all
lots of interesting info posted lately here!
I'm also intetrested a lot in this group but regretfully I have connection problems lately so I cannot log-on frequently here as I used too  ....

Some observations I made lately:

don't know if anyone has ever noticed or mentioned it here but I found all species I keep to easily take prekilled prey (and not only freshly killed), so I guess its safe to call them scavengers too.

I'm going to try feeding them small pieces of meat the next days to see if they will accept it too (somehow I have a feeling that they will)

In addition I have seen a couple I keep together to feed on the same corpse (a dead adult Hottentotta jayakari) simultaneously.


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## Ganoderma

oddly my babies never took prekilled.  they don't even seem to want slow moving prey.  but once it moves they pounce.


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## Grampus

Hi, I am just now getting into keeping uropygi, and it would be immensely appreciated if any of you guys took a look at my post (link below), which has a bunch of questions about keeping one. From reading your posts, I can see that you guys really know your stuff and it would be great if you could help me out on how to best care for them. 

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=90429

                      Thanks,
                        Andrew


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## M.F.Bagaturov

I believe You already have the answers to most of Your questions.
Just check these links for some info also may help to You, but the most valuable source is should be a person You've bought Your whipscorp (if he's a real breeder).
- http://museum.utep.edu/chih/theland/animals/invertebrates/uropygi/mastigoproctusgiganteus.htm
- http://animals.jrank.org/pages/2275...astigoproctus-giganteus-SPECIES-ACCOUNTS.html
- this old reprint is really good source also: http://www.jgp.org/cgi/reprint/1/4/435.pdf
- not on Mastygo, but definately worth to read: http://local.lander.edu/rsfox/310ThelyphonusLab.html


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## Nikos

Typopeltis crucifer mating 
these photos are also posted in a seperste thread but I think its best to put them in this one.

The thing that i noticed this time is that the male was constantly licking the females antennae, pretty kinky stuff!
Is this a way to stimulate her before she's ready to receive the sperm or??


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## M.F.Bagaturov

Nikos!
Thank You very much for pics and good luck!!!


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## DJ_AlMighty_247

This is an adult _Mastigoproctus giganteus_ (Giant Vinegaroon) and it's digging a tunnel. Maybe a male?


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## Ganoderma

damn looking good Nikos!!!  any eggs yet?


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## M.F.Bagaturov

These Mastigoproctus making me nervous - no any specimen sold in Europe at all  ehhhhh....
Any chance to post undersite picture (kept too dry for me)?

BTW. Do You have any other of these Mastigos? Send me some, I'm close to You


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## Nikos

No, no eggs yet, hopefully soon. FIngers crossed

Mihali I think Martin Goss in the UK has some M.giganteus for sale but they are a bit expensive (at least for me).
I have some juveniles which I hope to raise to adulthood and breed but this will take some years....


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## M.F.Bagaturov

Jasu Nickos!
Efharisto poli for the info and good luck!

BTW. If it's of some interest for somebody the new Mastigoproctus species has been described this year: 
CARLOS VIQUEZ (Costa Rica) & LUIS F. DE ARMAS (Cuba) (2007) A new species of Mastigoproctus Pocock, 1894 (Thelyphonida: Thelyphonidae) from Venezuela. In: Zootaxa 1463: 39-45 (30 Apr. 2007) 5 plates; 8 references.
The free 1st page, incl. abstract is available from here: http://www.mapress.com/zootaxa/2007f/z01463p045f.pdf

If somebody has or would obtain the full version, PLEASE! send it to me to bbigmojo@mail.ru
Thanks in advance!


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## 8+)

DJ_AlMighty_247 said:


> This is an adult _Mastigoproctus giganteus_ (Giant Vinegaroon) and it's digging a tunnel. Maybe a male?


I'm no expert, but those heavy chelae suggest male to me.


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## Jeremy Huff

Here is the Zootaxa article
http://www.mapress.com/zootaxa/2007/zt01463p045.pdf

Jeremy


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## Nikos

IT needs a subscription to be downloaded.
Jeremy I guess you talk about this one:
Zootaxa 1463: 39-45 (30 Apr. 2007) 
A new species of Mastigoproctus Pocock, 1894 (Thelyphonida: Thelyphonidae) from Venezuela
CARLOS VIQUEZ (Costa Rica) & LUIS F. DE ARMAS (Cuba)
right?


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## Nikos

*Scavengers*



vardoulas said:


> don't know if anyone has ever noticed or mentioned it here but I found all species I keep to easily take prekilled prey (and not only freshly killed), so I guess its safe to call them scavengers too.
> 
> I'm going to try feeding them small pieces of meat the next days to see if they will accept it too (somehow I have a feeling that they will)


and here are some photos so that we have photographic evidence of what is said above.
Various Uropygi spp feeding on cooked chicken meat.

M.giganteus












A species from China (can anyone ID it?)
























A species from Vietnam (can anyone ID it?)


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## Jeremy Huff

The China one is a Typopeltis sp.  Try to get some clear photos of the male palps and I will try to give you a sp.  The Vietnam sp is probably a Typopeltis, but it looks immature.

Jeremy


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## Ganoderma

Jeremy, how does one get access to that page.  a password pops up for me with no way of "signing up" or anything.

some more of mine had eggs but they went moldy with a very wet/humid house in the last typhoon!  

anyone else's had eggs thus far?


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## Jeremy Huff

The paper is too large a file to post.  Send me a PM with your email and I will forward it to you.
Jeremy


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## Borrerof

I was wondering. I have a Colombian uropygid, which im assuming is a Mastigoproctus colombianus. However, given the amount of research on these arachnids in my country, it could be something else. To my dismay, the person who gathered them in the field, only gathered females (or so I think) and am not quite sure if it even is a Mastigoproctus. I am also aware that Mastigopructus do not have the apparent sexual dimorphism mentioned in this thread. Any tips for sexing Uroproctinae or for genra determination without males? :?


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## Jeremy Huff

If you can post some photos, I should be able to tell you the genus and sex them.

Jeremy


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## Borrerof

You'll forgive my ignorance on these particular arachnids, but are there any particular characteristics I should center on in the pictures for you? I've gathered that both dorsal and ventral pictures are necessary, but is there any particular structure you need for genus id?


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## Jeremy Huff

Hi Felipe,

The only described genera that it could be is Mastigoproctus and Thelyphonellus.  A closeup photo of the carapace would tell me which genus.  If you can get some photos of the pedipalps and a ventral shot, I should be able to sex them. 

Jeremy


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## Ganoderma

thought i would make another comparison for sex, cause this specie looks a little different from Jeremy's excellent photo.

Excuse the blurriness, new camera, late at night, and they are alive and move lol.

Typopeltis crucifer
Male on left, Female on right.


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## M.F.Bagaturov

Nice pics, friend!
Would be more nice if You made them a bit larger (closer to the view of genital sternit)


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## bistrobob85

It's great to see some good readings on the lesser known arachnid orders . I feel like i'm going to spend a lot of time on this, not to mention that it might even make me want to get some uropygids too, mouahahaha. 

 phil.


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## Ganoderma

M.F.Bagaturov, when i get a free weekend i will take some better pics.  i can setup the camera and some lights and try to get some real detailed pics.  but i only have T. crucifer right now (anyone wanna trade species? :} )...maybe others could post some close ups of species they are keeping.

on a side note, i was changing one of their cages and i couldn't find her.  so i stuck my face right to the opening and gave it a little shake and got sprayed in the eyes and nose.  bloudy hell did that sting!!!!  it washes out easily, but it really hurt...even the skin on my nose.  yikes.


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## M.F.Bagaturov

Hi!

I will finaly obtain a pair to my female Minbosius manilanus, thus within days i will make the comparison pics myself for that species.
I will eager to swap (I have a juvenil femal of M. manilanus) and adult male Pseudo-"Hypoctonus ranguinensis" for swap, but I'm not sure we can realise it from Russia to Taiwan and back, but if you see the way out feel free to conatct me privately!


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## dtknow

Male M. giganteus...correct?


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## aszx

sdsv csc rgfdg

Reactions: Like 1


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## Jeremy Huff

I would say female, but show me a photo of the entire palp to confirm.

Jeremy


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## dtknow

This good enough?(full body)


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## Jeremy Huff

yep.  It is a male.

J


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## dtknow

Wait, so based off of what did you say the ventral photo was female? I thought it was female at first to the pair of dents on it which are not shown in the plates but the overall shape(blunt end versus pointed end) suggests male. Pedipalps are very male.


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## Jeremy Huff

On some male M. giganteus, the second sternite dips down and almost overlaps the third.  Yours does not.  Males also have shorter, rounded spides on the trochanter of the pedipalp.  Males also have a longer, narrower apophosis on the pedipalp.  I could clearly see these two modifications from the habitus shot you posted.

J


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## dtknow

So are you suggesting palpal sexing to be more accurate than ventral sexing?


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## Jeremy Huff

No.  I just think it is easier for some species.  When I am sexing a specimen, I want to see the entire specimen and a few characters to confirm.  
J


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## M.F.Bagaturov

*Minbosius manilanus sexing*

Hello All!
Here're pics of the both sexes of the filipino species _Minbosius manilanus_ from Negros.
1. Pic of the pedipalps showing no difference in sexes (I will replace this after get a new shot of female's palps).
2. Pic of the genital sternit showing the different shape in male and female.
3. Pic of the adult supposed male.
4. Pic of the adult supposed female.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Nikos

nice photos Mihali!
seems like your female has mite.


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## M.F.Bagaturov

Jasos, Nikos! 
Efharisto poli!

No, it is not a mite, just a part of the substratum 

How are Your and Your whip-scorps?
Did You finally have success with breeding the Chineese one?


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## Nikos

We're all just fine, thanks!

I mated them but still no eggsack, i think they produce eggsack some time during Autumn so its still early for that.
If the female produces one, I'll post photos here.


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## M.F.Bagaturov

Congrats Nikos!
Fingrescrossed for further breeding!
I was trying to mate my Minbosius, but for no avail... will try later.

Jeremy, what is Your suggestions looking the M.manilanus pics about the proposed sex???


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## Ganoderma

i just had another T. crucifer put out eggs (what is the term when they hold eggs????it aint laying anything).  that is cool, but it also means i obviously missed the breeding take place   i got a new camera so i will try to get better pics this time.  but the sides of the jar are so dirty and i dont like opening the lid on her.  what are peoples tricks to getting good shots...i am thinking jsut a bigger enclosure i can open a wide lid would be best....


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## Ganoderma

some of the new kids


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## M.F.Bagaturov

Wow, my friend!
That's great, congratulation!

Is it T. crucifer?


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## Ganoderma

yes it is   that is the only whip specie i currently keep 

they are due to shed soon, i will get pics of the 2nd instar stage


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## Nikos

Niiice! Congrats!

about your question on how to clean the glass without opening the lid maybe you can throw water with a syringe and wash the dirt from the glass.

For taking photos try throwing some extra light with a flashlight from a different angle (below or behind the enclosure).


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## Ganoderma

thanks   i gave up and just put them in larger enclosures lol.  its pretty easy with non venomous pets 


hw are yours doing? any babies yet?


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## Nikos

haven't checked on them since long time since they were underground. 
I might take a look this weekend, would be nice to see some on eggs or even better with youngs on top


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## Ganoderma

let us know if you do   as long as you are careful, you can even pick up females with eggs or babies on back....i moved the one in the latest photo into a new tub, and she couldn't care less!  this specie is a much more manageable sp. than others!


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## John Bokma

I keep the this species: http://johnbokma.com/mexit/2006/06/18/vinegaroon-eating-superworm.html as a pet (captured in the state of Veracurz, close to where I live, another photo of the same species (as far as I know): http://johnbokma.com/mexit/2006/12/31/vinnie-the-vinegaroon.html )

Am I correct that this is Mastigoproctus giganteus ? (I noticed that there is a subspecies mexicanus? ).

Another related question

I have this specimen for over 2 years (as an adult I am quite sure), and recently it started to burrow. I added a lot of additional substrate to make it easier, and this week it made a burrow, and today it's closing the entry (I just checked, it's entirely closed).

I am lucky, the burrow is made against the glass (I put a piece of carton to stop light from entering).

Only reason I can think of: giving birth. 

However, this specimen has been alone in a terrarium for 2 years. Are Uropygi able to store sperm for some time, like scorpions, or has parthenogenesis  been reported for this species?


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## What

While the info given here is great, in very dry west Texas it seems there is a larger concentration under rocks than in crevices.

Pictures of the west Texas variety once I get home and photo everything else. ;P


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## Jeremy Huff

Hi John,

If you can get me a dorsal close-up photo of the pedipalps, I can tell you which of the 3 subspecies it is.  It looks like it might be M. g. scabrosus, which is found in Veracruz.  You can send the photo to my email - jhuff@amnh.org.

What - I would not recommend this paper, nor anything Punzo writes.  His last book was mostly plagerized and the book had to be taken off the market.  Also, the very first sentence is very wrong.  Whipscorpions are not found in Australia, New Zealand, Europe or the whole of Africa (there is only 1 species in Africa (in Senegal and Gambia).  How a reviewer missed this, I don't know.

Jeremy


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## What

I did not realize that, this is the only paper by him that I have seen and so I took it at face value... :wall:


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## John Bokma

Update on the Mastigoproctus giganteus ssp.. Yesterday I noticed an exuvia in the burrow, so it had molted. Took quite some time ( 27-06-2008 (closing burrow) .. ca. 17-08-2008).

Do Uropygi eat the exuvia, or can one preserve it? (On one hand I want to carefully open up the burrow and remove the exuvia, but on the other hand don't want to stress the animal).

P.S. Jeremy, I guess I have better photos real soon.


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## Nikos

never seen them eating the exuvia but they usualy stay in thier borrow for many days (or better said weeks) after they molt and when they emerge the exuvia is destroyed.


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## MaartenSFS

I found this remote hidden valley here in South China that is just crawling with Uropygids. Almost every rock had one under it and some even more. I brought back two large adults the first time, but they didn't eat so I released them and brought back one slightly smaller adults and two babies, all of which ate (Babies possibly dead mealworm).

It's odd that in some areas there are centipedes everywhere and in other areas there are none with Uropygids all over the place.. I didn't make any good photos, but it's at the end of this video I made: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMO1pzMJOFU.


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## M.F.Bagaturov

Maarten, no inverts seen at the end, please, make fotos of these winegaroons. We all'd like to see em!

And hi Mr. Bokma, glad to see You in this thread 

I got some Malaysian garoons sell under the fake name "Thelyphonus pumhomii". I will post some pics while I manage to made some shots.


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## Deroplatys

Hi all, i brought a mated female earlier this year and coming back from holiday a few days ago her eggs have hatched, how long untill they`ll moult for the first time?


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## MaartenSFS

M.F.Bagaturov said:


> Maarten, no inverts seen at the end, please, make fotos of these winegaroons. We all'd like to see em!


There are several seconds of it running away at the end. There were some awesome Argiopes that didn't film well, a massive earthworm that I couldn't catch, and various amazingly beautiful coloured "small, thin dragonflyesques" and butterflies that were too quick for me to photograph.



















This, by the way, is possibly an undescribed species of tree and the local government has sent a specimen to Chinese scientists, who have never seen it (Which doesn't mean that much, actually).

This Saturday I am going to find another nature reserve and see what I can find. On my wishlist: Amblypygids, Scolopendra subspinipes sp., Plesiophrictus guangxiensis, scorpions, and many trap-doors!

Can I assume that if I can find Thelyphonids here that there should also be Amblypygids and the rest? Scorpions perhaps not, according to data, but we shall see..


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## Deroplatys

Anyone know how long it takes for the first moult after hatching?


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## M.F.Bagaturov

Maarten, as far as I know it is not any amblypygids known from China but just recently one species discovered in the south (don't know the details yet).
As for the ID of this one it is wise to wait untill Jeremy will find time to look into the thread.
So, keep Your eyes opened and please, make some nice shots of shinisaurus if You'll be lucky enough to observe any


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## M.F.Bagaturov

Hi!



Deroplatys said:


> Anyone know how long it takes for the first moult after hatching?


From 2 weeks till month.
Can You tell the origin of this vinegaroon?


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## Deroplatys

Thanks, no i cant, i got it at a bug show and cant remember who it was from or what it was


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## MaartenSFS

M.F.Bagaturov said:


> Maarten, as far as I know it is not any amblypygids known from China but just recently one species discovered in the south (don't know the details yet).
> As for the ID of this one it is wise to wait untill Jeremy will find time to look into the thread.
> So, keep Your eyes opened and please, make some nice shots of shinisaurus if You'll be lucky enough to observe any


Hm.. We'll see. I also cave so who knows what I can find down thar... 

Shinisaurus?


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## MaartenSFS

Today I saw one whilst driving my motorcycle almost right in the city in the early evening. It was completely missing its whip and it still reeked of vinegar. I brought it home and it viciously attacked a mealworm, ripping it in half. I suppose they don't use those as much as I would think, as I have seen others with partially amputated whips.


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## MaartenSFS

I have experimented a little and both juveniles and young adults can be kept communally (At least this species). I have one terrarium with two adults and one with 8 juveniles right now.

In the one with the young adults I added clay soil from the location I collected them from with one end of the terrarium at 4cm and the other at 9.5cm. I also added a live type of bright green "moss" that grows vertical spirals and cool-looking layered rocks (Shale, I think) and have created an elaborate tunnel system with one entrance and they have made multiple entrances themselves. When they feel me opening the lid they both dart for the entrances, sometimes to the same one. They show no aggression towards one another.

In the one with the juveniles I added 6cm of clay soil, the rocks, and the "moss", but instead of making a subterranean network I made the soil extra wet and when I put them in they made their own mini burrows and later I let it dry out more. Quite cool, actually. They all have their own little hideouts between the rocks and plants. And they also show no aggression towards each other and feed on the normal-sized meal worms.

Both terrariums are 23cm long X 12.5cm wide X18cm high. The young adults are about 4cm body length and the largest specimens I have seen are about 6 or 6.5cm. The juveniles are about 1cm. Hope this helps. I will post setup photos later.


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## Jeremy Huff

Hi Maarten,

The genus you have is Typopeltis.  The images are of two males (or the same specimen washed off?)  If you can get a clear closeup of the pedipalps, I can tell you the species...or, if you send me a pair I can give you a 100% i.d.

Deroplatys - the specimen you have reminds me of a species being bred at Toronto Zoo.  It came from a Malaysian dealer, but was collected in Thailand.  I suspect what you have is Typopeltis tarnanii.

Jeremy


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## MaartenSFS

Wouw, thanks. I will post some more pics, as I have no ideas about customs over here, yet. I am currently trying to breed them from two seperate locations (well over 100k apart). I no longer have the ones in the photos, which were adults. The ones I have at the moment possibly haven't reached adulthood yet, though are of a good size. I'll check the pedipalps and/or try to get some photos. I've had good luck finding these and Scolopendra multidens, so I will begin breeding them. When the offspring produce offspring I will consider to start selling. Is there a market for these?


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## MaartenSFS

I just did a quick search and by name only I would say it's Typopeltis guangxiensis, as I found them in north-eastern Guangxi.


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## Deroplatys

Heres another photo for anyone who`s interested, this is prior to giving birth







Is there anyway to ID them by looking at the hatchlings?
Like say when they moult they are a specific colour?


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## MaartenSFS

Well, I've just returned from another trip. I have brought several specimens back. Apparently these are plentiful, with this being the fourth site at which we found them, and we found nothing else of major interest. Today I brought back one large adult, two adults caught in the act of mating, and a larger juvenile.

I have discovered that as the micro juveniles got bigger they prefered the taste of their own kind over mealworms. Four out of eight survived.

When I arrived home one of the two that had been mating seems to be dead. It was moving its pedipalps near the back of the other one, so I assume that one to be the male. What's strange, though, is that it is larger and more bulkier than its mate.

1) Could the male be bigger and more robust than the female?

2) Could the male die immediately after mating?

I have rearranged and made new setups, adding fresh substrate, rocks, and small vegetation from the collection site and changing who went where.

I now have two small round containers with two juveniles each, one very large container with the two (?) that were mating, one smaller container with two similar-sized smaller adults (That have been getting along fine for over a week), and one smaller container with the big one.

I tried to put the "female" from the mating with the big one, but it chased "her" all around the enclosure so I quickly separated them.

I'll post some pictures of them and the enclosures here over the next several days and try to sex these.

I'm crossing my fingers that the female is gravid after the mating.


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## Ganoderma

although your sp and my sp are different, they are both in the same genera...and i have found that females do not harm the males, or babies.  cannibalism is very rare in this specie that i keep (T. crucifer) and only occurs if starvation is severe.....even then, the mothers are good and often dont eat the eggs or babies, even when disturbed...but it does happen.  i also noticed they are MUCH more sensitive to lack of moisture than food, a dry container here proved fatal after only 2-3 days  didn't make that mistake twice!

males larger?  considering how much they are able to eat and how much they expand, i think that (males being more robust) is entirely possible, just based on feeding.  but it would be hard to sex them based one one died....do you know the sex?


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## MaartenSFS

Ganoderma said:


> although your sp and my sp are different, they are both in the same genera...and i have found that females do not harm the males, or babies.  cannibalism is very rare in this specie that i keep (T. crucifer) and only occurs if starvation is severe.....even then, the mothers are good and often dont eat the eggs or babies, even when disturbed...but it does happen.  i also noticed they are MUCH more sensitive to lack of moisture than food, a dry container here proved fatal after only 2-3 days  didn't make that mistake twice!
> 
> males larger?  considering how much they are able to eat and how much they expand, i think that (males being more robust) is entirely possible, just based on feeding.  but it would be hard to sex them based one one died....do you know the sex?


I guessed the sex because the large robust one in the back that was doing all the "work" died shortly after said "work". At least I'm hoping so because I want that female to give birth. 

So far I have noticed that they will eat each other if one is much larger than another and the juveniles ate each other like mad. I had 8 and now only 4..   Similar sizes, however, can be kept together. At least so far.. I have also heavily misted mine daily.


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## Ganoderma

bummer.  i kept my babies together for  a few months, and watched them feed communally.  perhaps just a species thing.

if you get some pics up someone here could sex them for you for sure


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## MaartenSFS

Ganoderma said:


> bummer.  i kept my babies together for  a few months, and watched them feed communally.  perhaps just a species thing.
> 
> if you get some pics up someone here could sex them for you for sure


Oke, right now I'm in the process of setting things up more professionally to breed this species, a species of centipede, and I'm looking for trapdoor spiders and then I will post photographs of all the adult specimens and their enclosures. I am going to release a smaller one and catch one more big one in the hopes of having males and females (I'm sure I do). The babies I'm going to keep and raise to adulthood and see how long it takes. So far they feed voraciously on small mealworms.


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## Jeremy Huff

Maarten,

It will likely take about 4 years to raise them.  They tend to only molt once a year.  It would be easier to keep adults.  The trick is to just leave them alone.  Give them deep substrate to dig in and lots of cover.  The more you disturb them, the less likely you will have success.

post picks of adult palps and I will sex them for you.

Jeremy


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## MaartenSFS

Jeremy Huff said:


> Maarten,
> 
> It will likely take about 4 years to raise them.  They tend to only molt once a year.  It would be easier to keep adults.  The trick is to just leave them alone.  Give them deep substrate to dig in and lots of cover.  The more you disturb them, the less likely you will have success.
> 
> post picks of adult palps and I will sex them for you.
> 
> Jeremy


OMG, I just came back home from the forest and I redid all the setups with ferns and dried bamboe leaves, but... forgot to take their pictures before putting them back in.. I'll find a way, though...

I just let go a larger juvenile and found two more adults. I am keeping two small adults and four juveniles to raise to the next generation. I now have four adults and one super adult (massive). I have been collecting them at various locations to get a good mixed gene pool. Now I'm satisfied that I have a good breeding base to start, assuming that I have both males and females.  (We'll find out soon)

How do breeders keep them genetically stable? Do they have to keep bringing in WC to mix with the CB? Or is it different for invertebrates and it doesn't matter so much?


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## MaartenSFS

Oke, here they are, ze coveted photos!!!

(Note: Several are muddy because I had just redone the enclosures. The natural colour is as the first and third)

These are my five adult specimens (Sorry for the low quality - too much foliage in thar):

These two are together:











And these two:











The biggest one is evil and thus alone:






Habitat:






Other:


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## Ganoderma

i don think i can sex them, so i wont say anything lol.


as for keeping them stable, to be honest i think 99% you see sold are wild caught, and they are so seldom truly captive bred (many may have babies in captivity, but didn't breed in captivity) i doubt it matters.


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## MaartenSFS

Well, I will be the first, then. 

This will be the first species I breed this year, along with Scolopendra multidens, and either trapdoor spiders or something else I find near the Vietnamese border next week.


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## Jeremy Huff

First photo is a female, 2nd is a male, 3rd and 4th are males, and 5th is a female.

Watch that you don't have multiple species.  Collecting them from great distance apart may mean you get 2 or 3 species.  Although, China is poor in thelyphonid diversity, so chances are they are all the same.

Jeremy


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## MaartenSFS

Hm... I think this means that of the two I collected when mating the female died.. (And was ripped completely in half) Do you think I need one more female to begin breeding with a nice gene pool because the males will die off quicker? Someone told me that four females and two males were a nice gene pool to start breeding for tarantulas.

I was thinking about that (different species), but they look identical so I haven't put much thought into it. That last female is very aggressive and wouldn't let males or females in with her. Should I put them in a bigger terrarium to try and mate them? Anyways, thank you! I'm almost there.

Edit: Do females usually consume their mates and/or do males die soon after mating?


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## Jeremy Huff

Males live as long as females.  I have had males kill females.  The aggressive female may already be mated.  When they begin to breed it looks like a lot of aggression, so I would try to breed them.


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## MaartenSFS

Great information! I have just put the larger of the two males that were together in a larger terrarium with the aggressive female (Which is missing it's front left "foot"). That's great that the males live just as long, makes it easier to breed (perhaps..).

It seems that that's just what happened, the male killed the female after mating. I should have separated them immediately *STUPID*. So, upon closer inspection, females are slightly larger and have a bulkier abdomen in this species. Now I'd like to collect another female and all will be perfect.

I've still got two smaller ones that I'm not sure about and four juveniles. I'll check those when they get bigger.  Your help has been invaluable. Let's hope that the female doesn't eat the male.. O, if I notice that the females are gravid or have young should I remove the male immediately?


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## Jeremy Huff

sexing them is easy if they are mature.  On the pedipalps of males, the apophysis (long spine) coming off the tibia is curved and elaborated at the tip.  The female's is 'normal' coming to a point.  The male was most easily seen in photo 3.  Don't go by size, it means nothing...


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## MaartenSFS

Great, next time I'm going out I'll be able to discern the females from males and only keep what I need. I'm trying to impact the population (which is admitedly sizeable) as little as I can. I don't know how big the market is for these, but I plan to breed various species I find and it's also my hobby so I don't mind too much.


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## MaartenSFS

One more question: When you said to leave them alone, do you mean leave a male and female together and let them burrow and wait and see what happens? Or let them mate and separate them and leave them alone?


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## Jeremy Huff

Leave the female alone after breeding.  If you bother her with eggs/young, you risk her eating them.


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## MaartenSFS

I think they mated last night. I'll keep the male in there several more days and then separate them.


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## Scyther

Great and fasinating info everyone! 

I have a Malaysian Whip Scorpion (Called Adam West) his a little guy (or girl, not sure yet) but I think his fantastic! 







I have a qustion, can Whip Scorpions live together or do they prefer being by themself? 

Thxs


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## Ganoderma

i think most people, and vine's, would prefer solitary except for breeding....but in my little experience i have found T. crucifer to be very tolerant of each other kept communally.  as long as high humidity and good food is always there i never saw one problem.  but moms with eggs/babies i would not risk it.


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## MaartenSFS

Same here. Just make sure that they are similar in size..


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## Deroplatys

My baby ones have just done thier first moult, when will they all get out of the burrow and when should i feed them?


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## Deroplatys

Anyone know?


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## Nikos

usually when they surface they are ready to hunt


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## Jeremy Huff

Start adding some moisture to simulate the rains.  This should bring the female and babies up to the surface.  I think they may stay for a couple weeks after moulting.

Jeremy


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## Deroplatys

Will do 
Thanks all


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## Nikos

yes, lately I had some Chinese specimens molt and they stayed around 2-3 weeks underground after they molted


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## Elleken

Any breeders located in the states I'd be very interested in getting a couple.


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## Nikos

*Typopeltis cantonensis*

fresh photos of T.cantonensis

Female
























Male


















some more photos available at www.scorpiones.eu.tc
enjoy!


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## MaartenSFS

Nice photos, they look nearly identical to mine. By the way, I have now been keeping these for some months and I think that they make a good safe pet. I often see them burrowing and feeding. Very cool.


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## Deroplatys

They started to emerge a few days ago
Ive seperated only a fraction of them
The mum seems fine 
Checked on them this morning and shes been burrowing all over the place, so she seems back to her old self
That being said i think i should get the babies out fast
Their set up is very cheap and simple to create, simply a circket tub filled with a bit of cocofibre with a layer of dead leaves on the top to provide hiding places  
The photos looked a tad better before crappy photobucket

Heres the set up for the masses







These are the babies in their new tubs, i havent even tackled the main group of babies yet  :yikes: 







Heres one i dun up a bit better for my dad, just a better tub and a dollop of nice n vibrant moss


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## MaartenSFS

I agree. Separate them fast. They are very cannibalistic when young.


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## Deroplatys

Done 
I ended up with a total of 45 
I ran out of compartments for them seperately so 9 are in 1 large one.
BTW i got the female feeding, she seems back to he old self 

I ran out of  decent cricket tubs but i found these nail seperater things i think my dad gave to me, with a few holes finely drilled in they are perfect set ups for them, all filled with the same cocofibre with a layer of dead leaves.

Heres all the tubs







The big tub is the "really useful box" housing the mum, the little tray on top of it has the odd babies for the moments. Next to it are the 2 narrow nails holders housing 6 juveniles each, the big one houses 12, with 8 in their own compartments and 4 in an experimental communal set up, i may add more.

I also took some photos with my new cam, still need to get used to it a little bit, seems very unforgiving to even the slightest wobble
Couldnt decide which ones to upload so i done them all 































Heres a vid i took last night of the mum taking her second cricket, and also of her set up after i tidied it

[youtube]xJ8_6lEI0Gs[/youtube] 







Im sure they are not the USA giant ones, mine seem slightly different in build and are only 6 or so cm long, which is why i took the hand shot, im pretty sure i saw someone selling similar ones as Malaysian whip scorpions


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## Nikos

Nice! Congrats !
Housing that many can be a pain indeed but small vials work wonders.

It seems to be a Typopeltis tarnanii but wait for Jeremy's reply to be on the safe side.


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## Deroplatys

Thanks you 
I really wanted the nail dividers to work as they are nice and compact although ive found them a bit impractical, with 6 comparts ments and 1 lid :/
So when your feeding 1 they are all open and so teh food escapes:? 
So if i cant find a better solution to house them seperatly and individually i was thinking of housing them in groups of five in cricket tubs, good idea?


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## MaartenSFS

Congratulations. If I were you I wouldn't keep *any* of them together. I tried keeping eight together and only three survived. And then, because I only had two containers available I put two in one and now only two are left from the eight. I have my adults living communally, though.


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## Deroplatys

Thanks, i was thinking the other day they seemed far more aggressive than the mum ever was, hope i can find some soon, ive seen around 2 actually feeding, hopefully when they are all on their own i can feed them properly all at once


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## Nikos

I have a group of i2 T.cantonensis living together witout any problems.

I feed them choped mealworms.
Maybe you can try this "food method" in the nail divider so the feeders cannot escape.


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## Aquila

I'm interested whether _Mastigoproctus giganteus_ have valid subspecias.

_Mastigoproctus giganteus giganteus_ (Lucas, 1835)
_Mastigoproctus giganteus scabrosus_ (Pocock, 1902)
_Mastigoproctus giganteus mexicanus_ (Butler, 1872)


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## Jeremy Huff

Those are all valid.  M.g.floridanus is not.

Jeremy


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## Aquila

Thanks Jeremy.

Some ID key for them?


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## shoting1990

This is my Uropyga 
Minbosius manilanus [~4]


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## Jeremy Huff

There aren't really any good keys.  Pock in Biologi-Centrali Americana addresses them.  You can get a pdf of that paper from Scorpion Files.  I am working on the group and will have keys, images, etc.  However, I don't see me finishing it in the near future.

Jeremy


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## johnharper

I have a pair of these of these they are by one of the strangest animals I have ever owned. I want to try breeding them someday when they are old enough. I wished more people bred them.

John


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## shoting1990

male or female??


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## Nikos

looks female to me


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## Deroplatys

Whats the average survival rate of newly emerged juveniles?
I had them feeding for a while but without any change they have started to die off 
Another question is that can a female keep producing eggs after 1 mating?


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## Deroplatys

Can anyone help ?


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## Nikos

I keep them in small pill vials with coconut fibre bedding and feed them till they are fat and then leave them alone for 1-2 months, then feed again.
Above method proved successful for me.

I do not keep the species you have but i think that humidity might be your problem. If you keep them too wet, let it dry out a bit and vice versa.

Don't know about the last question.


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## Draiman

I have a pair of unidentified, wild-caught (I found them myself) Asian vinegaroons, and I'm wondering how often and how much I should be feeding them. How much do you guys feed your roons?


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## cricket54

*NW CA vinegaroon*

I have a large mature vinegaroon that I am assuming is a male because of its sz and the sexing pictures. He was very active and eating a lot when I got him from a lady in CA (I lived at the time in the desert in southern CA). Hes in a 10 gal tank with about 6 inches of peat and little sand. He had been doing extensive burrowing, and then one day in the fall, he burried himself and stayed there. Thats been a yr and a half ago. He was extrememly fat then, and now is sooooooo fat its like a tick ready to burst, but still has not molted yet. Last Aug. I moved to Mississippi and hes surviving. The soil is moist and seems perfect. I can see him on the glass in the bottom of the tank in his cave. He is still alive and moving in there when I look. Any idea how long they can take to molt? I would imagine if he were a female, he would have given birth already. Just curious. I really like this "bug" a lot and hopes he survives. Guess I am afraid he will die after he molts.

Sharon


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## Nikos

caught during molting from l2 to l3.
Enjoy!








couple more photos available here


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## Jeremy Huff

*Moulting*

Hey Nikos, my turn.  Thelyphonus caudatus.


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## Jeremy Huff

couple more


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## Deroplatys

Amazing moulting photo`s  
I hadnt seen my usually active vinegaroon in a few days so i finally opened her tub and she was no where to be seen, lifted the piece of bark up and there was a little hole with a yet again egg carrying vinegaroon  
So it seems they can have more than one brood with just one mating


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## zonbonzovi

*Typopeltis sp? w/ eggs*

I was about to put up some pix in the hopes of sexing, but this confirmed my suspicions:

As far as genus, it's just a guess.  I will post more pix later


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## UrbanJungles

Nice Sequence Jeremy!


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## johnharper

*My other spider project*

I have been seeing alot of spitting spiders at my parents house. In fact I released a gravid female a few days ago. Well I htought I had caught them all in the house lol but after coming home from work and stopping by my folks home before heading home I found another one. Its still kind of small and I am unsure of the sex but its eaten a b latteralis roach nymph so far. I hope to catch more and breed them.

John


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## johnharper

Mods please move this thread to the other spiders one its late and I got mixed up.

thanks,
John


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## Jeremy Huff

*new paper*

Here is a new paper I just had published on the African whip scorpion.

Jeremy

http://digitallibrary.amnh.org/dspace/handle/2246/5981


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## saltyscissors

oh man, vinnies look absolutely fantastic. are they a beginner arachnid? any special needs regarding humidity, warmth and feeding?


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## zonbonzovi

Def. a beginner invert- handleable as well.  Great eaters, hardy, relatively long lived, inexpensive, active(at night, anyway).  If it weren't for the hot spot in my heart for centipedes, these would easily be my favorite.  Care is simple- room temps., provide water for adults, occasionally mist for juvies.  Feed weekly...unless they're bulging...then back off.  I believe they have relatively slower metabolisms than other commonly kept inverts?  Just keep them away from eyes


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## Ganoderma

ya they are pretty harmless.  but you should be careful peering into their cage cause their squirts can actually go pretty high and it stings the piss out of your eyes if it gets in them...  atings cuts and such as well, but wipes off easy.  eyes ar eteh only ones i worry about.




on a differnet note.  does anyone know if there is something in fertilizer (scotts 20-20-20 blue powder stuff if you think it matters what kind) that attracts vins???  i have a slurpee cup, not that hort at about 20cm tall and smooth, and i have had 3 vins climb up them and drown in them....there is about 5cm of water in the bottom with a bunch of fertilizer, so its liek a super crazy concentrated fertilizer mix.  i find them dead in there.....any ideas????  they dont seem to go for hte little cups with only water in them...


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## mitchnast

probably attracted to the vapor trace.  Something about it is probably simmilar to early-stage decomposition like in scavangable dead insects.


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## Ganoderma

interesting thought.  i dont keep anyhting like that around anymore 

Some vins from Sabah, borneo by a river we swam at in the hills.  Any ideas on species?  I did not collect any or take any home, not into that anymore.


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## Scorpendra

[youtube]ipA3UHRWv3s[/youtube]


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## MrCrackerpants

A few of my Mastigoproctus giganteus

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/fbx/?set=a.156506241080487.35560.100001633364339&l=be9eb318ad


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## MrCrackerpants

MrCrackerpants said:


> A few of my Mastigoproctus giganteus
> 
> http://www.facebook.com/media/set/fbx/?set=a.156506241080487.35560.100001633364339&l=be9eb318ad


These pictures no longer exist. Today my Mastigoproctus giganteus nymphs are molting and coming off of their mothers abdomen. They are running around the underground chamber.


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## Ganoderma

with the summer heat and rains, the wild T. crucifer here are breeding.  got little babeis crawling around hte floor too.  our dogs have a fit when they see them.


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## JohnDapiaoen

I was wondering why she hasn't emerged yet while the others came out months ago so I looked under and found a pleasant surprise.


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## Elytra and Antenna

The is probably the only complete compendium of vinegaroon information ever assembled in any language: http://www.amazon.com/dp/1616462205 There are also over 250 photos including SEMs.


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## MrCrackerpants

Elytra and Antenna said:


> The is probably the only complete compendium of vinegaroon information ever assembled in any language: http://www.amazon.com/dp/1616462205 There are also over 250 photos including SEMs.


Very nice job, Orin. I need to get a copy of this.


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## Ganoderma

Anyone noticed couples protecting each other or their home?  Normally I see them run but recently I saw a pair that was defending their burrow to the death.  Interesting the female was also defending the male and cover his body repeatedly.  Anyonevwitnessed this amongst the family, or random occurrence?  I've noted that the females are quite good mothersa s well.

This is typopeltis crucifer in Taiwan

Bad picture, will look for others on hard drive later
http://biotataiwan.org/images/Typopeltis-crucifer3.jpg


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## Spleenslitta

I'm looking for some quite specific info about Vinegaroon and Amblypygis and this seems to be the right place to ask.
I know about the most common info on both species but there are a few things i just cannot find.
I saw the PDF files in the original post but they are textwalls written in scientific terms that i can barelly translate since english is not my first language.

Question 1: Which type of chelicerae do vinegaroons have? Jacknife, scissors or those 3-segmented chelate chelicerae mentioned on wiki?
If you got any close up pics or videos of those chelicerae lying around that would be great. The amblypygis seem to have the jacknife type.

Question 2: Do any of the amblypygi or vinegaroon types have better vision or a unique ability that sets them apart from the rest of their familytree?

These questions might seem trivial but it's surprisingly important for me and you would save me from trawling the internet for days since there is so little information
 on these creatures in comparison to spiders.
Thank you in advance.


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## schmiggle

Don't know about vinegaroon chelicerae, but I believe both groups have very poor vision, amounting to the ability to see changes in ambient light, if anything. I'm pretty sure there are no exceptions to that latter rule.


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## Spleenslitta

Thanks Schmiggle. I found some tiny tiny vinegaroons with some more abilities but sadly not what i was looking for.
The big question is the type chelicerae they have though. Been trawling youtube for days looking for a good close up pic but no luck so far.


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## schmiggle

I'm thinking jacknife. See this picture:





I know it isn't super clear, but I think it's clear enough to see that the chelicerae are certainly not the scissor variety and probably not the three-jointed variety.

Edit: definitely jacknife. See the following, in particular the section regarding chelicerae:
http://lanwebs.lander.edu/faculty/rsfox/invertebrates/thelyphonus.html


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## schmiggle

By the way, I don't really know what you mean by a "unique ability," but many phrynus species need prey toward their pedipalps using their antenniform legs.


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## Spleenslitta

Thank you Schmiggle. I finally got the answer i was looking for and the final touch on the maincharacter in my novel can finally be decided. Hopefully my novel can put a bit of food on my table someday in the future.
I was hopefull for scissor chelicerae but i doubt we can convince mother nature to change her mind with the arguement that the vinegaroon would look cooler with that tiny designchange.

Onwards to writte chapter 3.
By unique ability i was thinking about....for example how there are tiny vinegaroons that have a rear antenna that they use as a gigantic "ear" rather than a tasteorgan to feel for prey.
Or how the jumping spider is capable of jumping 50 times it's own bodylenght. Things that can be described as different than the rest of their species.

Thanks again Schmiggle.


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## Gogyeng

Very nice thread and excellent reference material. Still going strong after 11 years !


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## Jeremy Huff

Gogyeng said:


> Very nice thread and excellent reference material. Still going strong after 11 years !


Yeah but I can’t see any of the photos.


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## msburgundy

There was a book published in 2018, Amazing Arachnids by Jillian Cowles, that has some great information and photos.I bought it specifically for the vinegaroon section but it's a great book overall

She goes into a lot of detail about the mating and maternal behaviors especially, though I believe the focus is on M. tohono and M. giganteus specifically as the book is centered around arachnids in the American southwest


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