# OBT BITE!! Nerve block at ER - a lifesafer



## Sharno (Sep 6, 2015)

I will post a bite report in a day or so when I have a more comprehensive snapshot.  I was rehousing a 4inch OBT with the intent of trading/selling/giving to local pet store, as I have no desire for the aggressive little buggers but had raised it from a sling - it grew so fast.  I have rehoused a dozens and have my routine, and was exceptionally careful. I am kicking myself because I was going to bring both cages to the pet store and let the T expert do the rehousing.

Anyway, like all bite reports, it happened in a flash, up the long tweezers after a gentle nudge when things looked to be going fine in the bathtub.  Then bam.  I thought I was imagining it, it happened so fast. She went into her new home and I suddenly felt the pain. Oh. My. God. 

Grabbed my T keepers guide, picked her up in her new cage, and quickly printed out a few pages of bite reports and took a benadryl.  Went to urgent care. They ooh''d and ahh'd over her.  Gave me a shot of toradol. And antbiotic shot. A prescription for tramadol and flexeril.  Waited a bit to check on pain.  The toradol did nothing. I wanted to cut my hand off.  the bite is on the left palm, inside, below thumb.  They insisted I go to the ER.  Sigh.  So I did.

ER saw me right away when they saw me carrying the hairy beast in the container.  Staff took pictures. Asked a lot of questions.  The ER doctor suggested we try a nerve block. I have not read anywhere in a bite report about this approach. It took a lot of needles to numb it all, but once he did, I FELT NOTHING.  Still feel NOTHING.  Just numb like it went to sleep.  Hard to type.  I am worried it will be wearing off soon. He gave me tyelnol 3 with codeine and an antibiotic.

As I said, I will post a thorough report after a few days when I can document what happened each day, but wanted to let you all know that a nerve block was GREAT and I have read that NO pain meds touch this pain.  In fact, I am concerned the codeine will be a joke --- but by tomorrow is the worst pain gone?  If it was like today, I swear, I'd suck up the bill and go back to the ER for another nerve block!

Any preliminary feedback for what to expect tomorrow and the next day?

It almost seemed like a dry bite at first, I saw no blood, no venom anywhere.  But damn it hurt --- worse than a broken bone.

Reactions: Like 10 | Wow 1


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## widowkeeper (Sep 7, 2015)

that's why I never poke or try to pick up any Ts capable of teleportation I cup them from behind so when they fly its usually away from me lol I cringe everytime I see someone break out tongs or poking sticks I tend to be careless with slings but anything bigger then 2" I treat like its a flying case of the herp 

 im sorry you got tagged but its good for ppl to see this, no matter how carefull or experienced  you are it can happen and you wont be able to stop it if you have doubts then its a good idea to just stay away from some species or just accept that some day it will be Tarantula 1 you a free trip to the er

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## 14pokies (Sep 7, 2015)

I really cringe anytime I hear of a bite report that ends in the ER... I can visualize the hammer dropping...

You won't get sympathy from me my friend be more carefully the next time... With all of your Ts! 

I am glad that your OK though...

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## metallica (Sep 7, 2015)

how much is the medical bill? or is this covered in an Insurance?

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## The Snark (Sep 7, 2015)

Whew! You might as well write it up. A trend. Chronology of the entire affair. Side effects, your vitals if possible, etc. Let others know what to expect and how long before it's completely gone. You may have some minor latent paralysis depending on how happy go lucky they were with the needle. Finding that nerve bundle isn't easy. Shouldn't be any long term effects.

Then, could you repeat the whole thing with a good go-pro running? You know, a hint for the 'gee, I want to try out keeping a hot' crowd. We'll be glad to flood you with more sympathy. :wink:


PS, Kiss off the opiates if possible. They just make you too brain stupid to realize the agony.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Chainsaw Reptiles (Sep 7, 2015)

Okay Anyone Fancy Joining Me To Poke a Couple OBT's? No? Oh Ok Ill Do it By My Self


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## 14pokies (Sep 7, 2015)

Chainsaw Reptiles said:


> Okay Anyone Fancy Joining Me To Poke a Couple OBT's? No? Oh Ok Ill Do it By My Self


Is poking you with a stick an option?

Reactions: Like 6


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## MikeC (Sep 7, 2015)

14pokies said:


> Is poking you with a stick an option?


Tie an OBT to the end of the stick, then commence with the poking.

Reactions: Like 6


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## pyro fiend (Sep 7, 2015)

PTX said:


> Tie an OBT to the end of the stick, then commence with the poking.


Aaaaand....nightmares...

Reactions: Like 1


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## shawno821 (Sep 7, 2015)

Awesome way to put the entire hobby in jeopardy....Why let them take pictures to be used later? You could have refused to let them take pics,you have that right.Too many of these,and bam
you get a state ban on T's,and screw a LOT of people! This is synopsis on exactly what not to do,and the reason people on these boards are so adamant that certain T's belong in the hands of experienced keepers.
OBT's will probably be the T that does the most damage to this hobby.Sorry I can't be more sympathetic,but you just helped put us all at risk for losing our rights to our T's,and it makes me angry.

Reactions: Like 8 | Agree 1 | Disagree 1


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## KristinaMG (Sep 7, 2015)

Just FYI most ERs won't do nerve blocks. I have debilitating migraines.  I go into my neuro's office regularly for nerve blocks.  If I get really bad while the office is closed and go to the ER I have always been told they cannot perform nerve blocks. They just give me morphine.  The doctor has to have specialized training to perform blocks.

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## Chainsaw Reptiles (Sep 7, 2015)

I mean a OBT Gun... Thats something I do want to see


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## AphonopelmaTX (Sep 7, 2015)

shawno821 said:


> Awesome way to put the entire hobby in jeopardy....Why let them take pictures to be used later? You could have refused to let them take pics,you have that right.Too many of these,and bam
> you get a state ban on T's,and screw a LOT of people! This is synopsis on exactly what not to do,and the reason people on these boards are so adamant that certain T's belong in the hands of experienced keepers.
> OBT's will probably be the T that does the most damage to this hobby.Sorry I can't be more sympathetic,but you just helped put us all at risk for losing our rights to our T's,and it makes me angry.


What part of the story would put the tarantula keeping hobby at risk?  Someone seeking medical attention to the envenomation or having the clinical staff document it?

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## dredrickt (Sep 7, 2015)

shawno821 said:


> Awesome way to put the entire hobby in jeopardy....Why let them take pictures to be used later? You could have refused to let them take pics,you have that right.Too many of these,and bam
> you get a state ban on T's,and screw a LOT of people! This is synopsis on exactly what not to do,and the reason people on these boards are so adamant that certain T's belong in the hands of experienced keepers.
> OBT's will probably be the T that does the most damage to this hobby.Sorry I can't be more sympathetic,but you just helped put us all at risk for losing our rights to our T's,and it makes me angry.


You're making it sound like his OBT escaped and bit a Senator.  Draw down on the drama here.  All this does is make people hesitant to make bite reports, and that prevents potentially helpful information from reaching other people.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Methal (Sep 7, 2015)

KristinaMG said:


> Just FYI most ERs won't do nerve blocks. I have debilitating migraines.  I go into my neuro's office regularly for nerve blocks.  If I get really bad while the office is closed and go to the ER I have always been told they cannot perform nerve blocks. They just give me morphine.  The doctor has to have specialized training to perform blocks.


wat? you want to nerve block your head?

I might be mistaken here, im no doctor, but isn't that where your brain is kept?

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## KristinaMG (Sep 7, 2015)

Methal said:


> wat? you want to nerve block your head?
> 
> I might be mistaken here, im no doctor, but isn't that where your brain is kept?


it's called an occipital nerve block..and yes, it is obvious you are no doctor.  It is an extremely low-risk procedure.

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## awiec (Sep 7, 2015)

Methal said:


> wat? you want to nerve block your head?
> 
> I might be mistaken here, im no doctor, but isn't that where your brain is kept?


Migraines are very strange ailments, I can get very severe ones where I'll vomit, hallucinate, have intense sensitivity to light/sound and occasionally black out. My migraines in particular are caused by muscles straining my eyes too much, a nerve blocker would make it to where my nerves wouldn't cause my muscles to tension up so much so I could feel some relief. It's also why some people get botox to help their migraines cause it poisons/relaxes the muscles that would cause them. I do a lot of muscle relaxation exercises and am pro-active about not stressing myself out to help prevent them or at least nip them in their early stages.

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## Methal (Sep 7, 2015)

KristinaMG said:


> it's called an occipital nerve block..and yes, it is obvious you are no doctor.  It is an extremely low-risk procedure.


Must be, i used to get migraines about 2-3 times a week. 

This while I was in the Infantry. Been free of service for 1.5ish year now (ETS Feb 2014) Tried 8 or 9 different prescribes, only thing that helped was a lot of caffeine Oxy's and some crap that made my hands not work right. 
over the last year and a half I only get silent migraines now, and they rarely go into something painful about once a month. 

in 4 years of this I have never had a doctor suggest, or even heard of a nerve block. Yet I've had 3 other body parts on the receiving end of nerve blocks. (surgical necessities. )

...Never thought of asking for a nerve block for an envenomation though. 

Been bitten by rattle snakes, black widows, and my male OBT.


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## KristinaMG (Sep 7, 2015)

Methal said:


> Must be, i used to get migraines about 2-3 times a week.
> 
> This while I was in the Infantry. Been free of service for 1.5ish year now (ETS Feb 2014) Tried 8 or 9 different prescribes, only thing that helped was a lot of caffeine Oxy's and some crap that made my hands not work right.
> over the last year and a half I only get silent migraines now, and they rarely go into something painful about once a month.
> ...


Maybe it is different where you live, here in MA all of the major headache clinics and pain centers do occipital nerve blocks (I have used 3 different centers here before settling on my current office).  My neurologist was one of the pioneering doctors for this technique.  It is much safer than chowing down oxys- or going to the ER and getting pumped with toradol and morphine.  In fact, when I was pregnant and had to go off my usual migraine meds I was told that the only safe abortive action would be nerve blocks.  With the nerve block you receive a local anesthetic followed by the steroid injection.  Since it is injected directly into the nerves being targeted, only a trace, negligible amount of medication enters the blood stream.  I am still breastfeeding which is why I continue to receive regular nerve blocks, since many preventatives and abortives are off limits to me while I am nursing.

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## Angel Minkov (Sep 7, 2015)

shawno821 said:


> Awesome way to put the entire hobby in jeopardy....Why let them take pictures to be used later? You could have refused to let them take pics,you have that right.Too many of these,and bam
> you get a state ban on T's,and screw a LOT of people! This is synopsis on exactly what not to do,and the reason people on these boards are so adamant that certain T's belong in the hands of experienced keepers.
> OBT's will probably be the T that does the most damage to this hobby.Sorry I can't be more sympathetic,but you just helped put us all at risk for losing our rights to our T's,and it makes me angry.


What would the pictures reveal? A little blood on a finger, perhaps? Swelling at best. If they wanted to jeopardize the hobby via pictures, they can just puncture a finger with a needle and say its a tarantula bite. MY health is MY priority, not the hobby. If I get bitten some day and I cannot deal with it alone, I WILL go to the ER and I won't even think twice before it. Synopsis on what to NOT do? The guy/girl used tongs, presumably long, but how could it cross your angry-narrow mind that perhaps the OBT is faster than him/her? Bite occured. That's that. I don't think the OP posted this with intentions on getting anybody's sympathy or judgement, and frankly I don't think he/she cares about what you, me or anybody else thinks about this matter. People are always complaining there is no info out there on T bites? Here is a bit. If you want to value it from a scientific point of view - great, but I don't think you're in a position to start judging mindlessly without even considering the importance of one's health. This forum has become waaay too judgemental.

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## MrsHaas (Sep 7, 2015)

Popcorn, anyone??

Reactions: Like 10


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## The Snark (Sep 7, 2015)

No Angel Minkov, what is needed is to see other peoples perspectives. Some broader, some narrower, than our own. Of course this can lead to a greater understanding, not only of the subject matter, but of other people. Acknowledge differing perspective, sprinkle with respect, and bake in the pre frontal oven for an hour. Amazing recipe.

Nerve blocks. Shows us how unscientific modern medicine is sometimes. Commonplace in one locale, unheard of treatment in another. Go in the wrong door at certain hospitals and get a radical mastectomy. Oh! Did you just want a lump-ectomy? That's Dr. Foomwhizz's specialty, just down the hall. PFFFFFFTB!!!

(Personally, I strongly suspect nerve blocks aren't commonplace because they can make a doctor look like an idiot. One person can spend 15 minutes trying to hit the nerve bundle while the next gets lucky and hits it on the first shot. Nerve bundles can be bastard hard to find. They don't show up on any imaging medium and are in different places on each individual. Take establishing an IV. Doctors will almost never do it themselves. They are trained but it's a matter of LOTS of practice. They let the nurses do it. In turn, if the nurses have trouble with one they will call a lowly 2 years of college lab tech who does a couple dozen vein shots a day.)

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## Purple Grant (Sep 7, 2015)

Why did you have to bring the spider with you? I could understand someone doing that with a wild spider that bit them for ID, but when you already know, I can't think of a reason. Is this something you're supposed to do?

Sent from my E2303 using Tapatalk

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## Angel Minkov (Sep 7, 2015)

The Snark said:


> No Angel Minkov, moderation isn't needed. What is needed is to see other peoples perspectives. Some broader, some narrower, than our own. Of course this can lead to a greater understanding, not only of the subject matter, but of other people. Acknowledge differing perspective, sprinkle with respect, and bake in the pre frontal oven for an hour. Amazing recipe.
> 
> Nerve blocks. Shows us how unscientific modern medicine is sometimes. Commonplace in one locale, unheard of treatment in another. Go in the wrong door at certain hospitals and get a radical mastectomy. Oh! Did you just want a lump-ectomy? That's Dr. Foomwhizz's specialty, just down the hall. PFFFFFFTB!!!
> 
> (Personally, I strongly suspect nerve blocks aren't commonplace because they can make a doctor look like an idiot. One person can spend 15 minutes trying to hit the nerve bundle while the next gets lucky and hits it on the first shot. Nerve bundles can be bastard hard to find. They don't show up on any imaging medium and are in different places on each individual. Take establishing an IV. Doctors will almost never do it themselves. They are trained but it's a matter of LOTS of practice. They let the nurses do it. In turn, if the nurses have trouble with one they will call a lowly 2 years of college lab tech who does a couple dozen vein shots a day.)


There are certain boundaries which should not be crossed when expressing those perspectives


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## The Snark (Sep 7, 2015)

Purple Grant said:


> Why did you have to bring the spider with you? I could understand someone doing that with a wild spider that bit them for ID, but when you already know, I can't think of a reason. Is this something you're supposed to do?
> 
> Sent from my E2303 using Tapatalk


You stagger into the ER I'm working at with a bleeding wound and you wave a gun and point to the hole... well, the very first thing we look for when diagnosing is Mechanism Of Injury. Packing the gun (NOT advised) or spider certainly clears up the MOI in a quick hurry.

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Angel Minkov said:


> There are certain boundaries which should not be crossed when expressing those perspectives


Let those with the highest education establish the basic roolz of social interackshuns. I've gots 9 years post gammer skrool. I'm holding 4 aces, what you gots, Holmes?

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## 14pokies (Sep 7, 2015)

Methal said:


> Been bitten by rattle snakes, black widows, and my male OBT.


You might wanna think about switching to fish keeping bud :biggrin:

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## BobGrill (Sep 7, 2015)

14pokies said:


> You might wanna think about switching to fish keeping bud [emoji3]


With a record like that, i'd agree. 

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk


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## Roosterbomb (Sep 7, 2015)

Most laws prohibiting things never come to light unless there is a crusader behind it. If the person getting bit is a 15 year old with a bored mother that is horrified at the result of her child's pet biting him/ her. That being said too many irresponsible owners and sellers will eventually cause problems for all of us. Quit buying spiders you're not ready for people I know most of is wouldn't make waves if we got tagged by what about other family members neighbors or house guests.


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## MikeC (Sep 7, 2015)

Methal said:


> Been bitten by rattle snakes, black widows, and my male OBT.





14pokies said:


> You might wanna think about switching to fish keeping bud :biggrin:


You realize he'd (she'd?) probably gravitate towards piranha, eh?


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## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (Sep 7, 2015)

MrsHaas said:


> Popcorn, anyone??


 Forget the popcorn, tortillas anyone?

When I was in the ER due to a Poecilotheria sp. bite I was asked what type of spider was it that bit me. The doctor and staff members wanted to see online a photo of the tarantula, why I was asked? Don't know. I'm sure it probably was for their records. 
I've said this before, in every spider bite that someone gets it will have different reaction to that individual that gets bitten. It's a matter of time when the right tarantula with high potent venom will bite a person that has a weak heart or may have health problems that could be severe to that individual. 

In the ER I was giving  Benadryl and Loratab/Hydrocodene. Even though I was giving this medication I was still in pain for a month. Though during the first few days I had other symptoms.

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## The Snark (Sep 7, 2015)

14pokies said:


> You might wanna think about switching to fish keeping bud :biggrin:


Thinking about a certain Oscar that bit a friends nose twice... Herbivorous fish. Small herbivorous fish with dainty appetites.

---------- Post added 09-08-2015 at 10:49 AM ----------




jose said:


> Forget the popcorn, tortillas anyone?
> 
> When I was in the ER due to a Poecilotheria sp. bite I was asked what type of spider was it that bit me. The doctor and staff members wanted to see online a photo of the tarantula, why I was asked? Don't know. I'm sure it probably was for their records.
> I've said this before, in every spider bite that someone gets it will have different reaction to that individual that gets bitten. It's a matter of time when the right tarantula with high potent venom will bite a person that has a weak heart or may have health problems that could be severe to that individual.
> ...


I'm going to guess the ER staff wanted to rule out certain spiders rather than positively ID yours and search a database. I'm also getting a rather painful mental image of certain ER geniuses I have known staring at a container containing a Pokey and ruminating, "That's not a black widow. I'm almost sure of it!"

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## awiec (Sep 7, 2015)

The Snark said:


> Thinking about a certain Oscar that bit a friends nose twice... Herbivorous fish. Small herbivorous fish with dainty appetites.
> 
> ---------- Post added 09-08-2015 at 10:49 AM ----------
> 
> ...


I have a small maroon clownfish who will attack you viciously, they end up growing to about 4-5 inches and are capable of drawing blood so even in a salt water tank you're not safe from the fish (not to mention the rabbit fish that can envenomate you).

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## Cavedweller (Sep 8, 2015)

Purple Grant said:


> Why did you have to bring the spider with you? I could understand someone doing that with a wild spider that bit them for ID, but when you already know, I can't think of a reason. Is this something you're supposed to do?


For company of course! Going to the ER alone is scary.


(I am actually really curious about why you did this too)

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## Methal (Sep 8, 2015)

14pokies said:


> You might wanna think about switching to fish keeping bud :biggrin:


lol 25 years of time wandering the deserts of Utah you'll find a few things. 

equals out to not even 1 bite per 5 years of doing this. I'd say thats ok.

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## Chris LXXIX (Sep 8, 2015)

jose said:


> Forget the popcorn, tortillas anyone?
> 
> When I was in the ER due to a Poecilotheria sp. bite I was asked what type of spider was it that bit me. The doctor and staff members wanted to see online a photo of the tarantula, why I was asked? Don't know. I'm sure it probably was for their records.
> I've said this before, in every spider bite that someone gets it will have different reaction to that individual that gets bitten. It's a matter of time when the right tarantula with high potent venom will bite a person that has a weak heart or may have health problems that could be severe to that individual.
> ...


That's the truth. Bite reports are helpful, granted, but in a general way.. never heard about a _Stromatopelma calceatum_ (or _Poecilotheria ornata_) wet bites on someone who have peacemakers, heart bypass etc

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The Snark said:


> Thinking about a certain Oscar that bit a friends nose twice... Herbivorous fish. Small herbivorous fish with dainty appetites.
> 
> ---------- Post added 09-08-2015 at 10:49 AM ----------
> 
> ...


But i think it's normal that. I mean, for someone not into T's, or arachnids in general. Everyone knows, more or less, what a "Black Widow" is (one of the most "used/abused" spiders ever, in "myths" and spider horror stories) but if you say "_Poecilotheria hanumavilasumica_!" answer would be "UH?"


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## Scorpling (Sep 8, 2015)

As bad as the bites are I think OBT's are gorgeous spiders. I've never owned a T But baboon spiders are just amazing. Glad you're alright now. And don't listen to the people saying you'll put the hobby in jeopardy, you needed them to know what to do to get you better and took measures to make sure they knew what they were treating you for. A human life is more important than the rights of some hobbyists, I don't think T's will ever be banned but if they are people can just suck it up and get a permit like they do for Phasmids.


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## dementedlullaby (Sep 8, 2015)

The Snark said:


> Thinking about a certain Oscar that bit a friends nose twice... Herbivorous fish. Small herbivorous fish with dainty appetites.






LOL. The nose? Really? How does that even happen? Once, let alone twice? That's actually really funny.

My green spotted puffer is pretty aggro. She bit me once during a glass cleaning marathon when I got lazy. I upped my game and haven't been bitten again. It was basically like a bird bite. Good pinch and bruise but no bleeding. Not surprising given puffer teeth. She was just seeing if I tasted like the shrimp I give her so no hard feelings. 



awiec said:


> I have a small maroon clownfish who will attack you viciously, they end up growing to about 4-5 inches and are capable of drawing blood so even in a salt water tank you're not safe from the fish (not to mention the rabbit fish that can envenomate you).


Even FW catfish will give you a nice sting if you give them a chance. But thankfully fish can't teleport out of the tank to bite/sting you .




These stories remind me of the Gar that bit a family friends finger.

"Hey you should probably stop bugging the fish."

**guy is left alone in room for a few minutes**

"OMG the fish took a chunk out of my finger!"

/facepalm


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## Tim Benzedrine (Sep 8, 2015)

awiec said:


> I have a small maroon clownfish who will attack you viciously, they end up growing to about 4-5 inches and are capable of drawing blood so even in a salt water tank you're not safe from the fish (not to mention the rabbit fish that can envenomate you).


And there is what happens when you do not use the ladder system. Instead of starting with a regular beginner clownfish, you got ahead of yourself and went straight to an Ouchie the Clownfish.

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## Chris LXXIX (Sep 8, 2015)

Scorpling said:


> I don't think T's will ever be banned


Where? In USA? If so, i agree with you. I doubt about a total, T ban scenario, in the United States of America. I share, and support, no matter, all the USA advanced keepers here, like Poec54, questions and concerns about, however. 
From what i know about "Stars And Stripes" nation, that would be hard. Just like for the Death Penalty, there's States laws who decide, unlike Europe (think if would be normal to have, in Italy or France, for instance, Death Penalty in the North, and not in the Southern part, or viceversa).

But bans, actually, DO happens. Italy, summer of 2003. Legge (law, in English) 213. Ban of ALL Arachnids.
In Germany, European Bastion, heaven for T's breeders.. actually there's "questions" about "Pookies".

Let me say this: i have nothing against someone who, due to pure, finest, bad luck, is bitten by a potent venom T, such an OBT or a "Pookie". No way, health is the first thing. Every of us, no matter the years of experience, is at risk, since, obviously, we own venomous animals at our homes.

But IMO, no mercy for handling fools, YT show off, or other weirdos who got bitten doing those foolish, uneducated acts. They disrepect the hobby. I disrespect those people. Period.

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## awiec (Sep 8, 2015)

Tim Benzedrine said:


> And there is what happens when you do not use the ladder system. Instead of starting with a regular beginner clownfish, you got ahead of yourself and went straight to an Ouchie the Clownfish.


Jokes on you, I did start with a normal clownfish but upgraded when Petsmart fish gave my entire tank ick.


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## Tim Benzedrine (Sep 8, 2015)

And really, I didn't see much indication that the bite in this case was really the result of  any of the reasons you described. Perhaps the acquisition of the spider in the first place was a bit ill-advised, but I didn't get the sense of irresponsible handling or bravado resulting in the bite.

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## TsunamiSpike (Sep 8, 2015)

Tim Benzedrine said:


> And really, I didn't see much indication that the bite in this case was really the result of  any of the reasons you described. Perhaps the acquisition of the spider in the first place was a bit ill-advised, but I didn't get the sense of irresponsible handling or bravado resulting in the bite.


I'd agree there's no attempt at being cocky involved here.  But poking a widely known unpredictable, hot, bite happy and ridiculously fast T with tongs that it's 8 legs can traverse in no time at all...I'd say that's pretty foolish. And if this wasn't known to the OP then perhaps a course of research would serve well in future.


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## Angel Minkov (Sep 8, 2015)

TsunamiSpike said:


> I'd agree there's no attempt at being cocky involved here.  But poking a widely known unpredictable, hot, bite happy and ridiculously fast T with tongs that it's 8 legs can traverse in no time at all...I'd say that's pretty foolish. And if this wasn't known to the OP then perhaps a course of research would serve well in future.


I don't see the OP mentioning he poked his OBT

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## awiec (Sep 8, 2015)

Angel Minkov said:


> I don't see the OP mentioning he poked his OBT


He was doing a rehouse as he was going to sell it and the spider got spooked and ran up the tweezers. Though honestly I'm not sure how else you are suppose to rehouse a spider; I prefer a paint brush but my animals could easily whip around and run up it and bite me.

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## Chris LXXIX (Sep 8, 2015)

awiec said:


> He was doing a rehouse as he was going to sell it and the spider got spooked and ran up the tweezers. Though honestly I'm not sure how else you are suppose to rehouse a spider; I prefer a paint brush but my animals could easily whip around and run up it and bite me.


I use a brush only for gentle touch their legs when i let T's in their new enclosures, otherwise... old system of mine, for all T's (no matter if arboreals, NW or OW).
Bath, open the lid, plastic container and hard piece of cardboard and voilà. I never used bottle/bag method. Tweezers only for feeding, remove boluse.


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## awiec (Sep 8, 2015)

Chris LXXIX said:


> I use a brush only for gentle touch their legs when i let T's in their new enclosures, otherwise... old system of mine, for all T's (no matter if arboreals, NW or OW).
> Bath, open the lid, plastic container and hard piece of cardboard and voilà. I never used bottle/bag method. Tweezers only for feeding, remove boluse.


It's just me, a brush and a cup, though there are some spiders that have gotten on my nerves and just get pinched grabbed (don't try this at home kids). My comment was in response to people that are saying "that's why you don't poke spiders", he wasn't poking it for fun, he was re-housing it and even if he were to use a paint brush the spider still could have ran up and bit him. Would there have been less chance of a bite with a brush being used? Yes but it doesn't eliminate the chance, the spider is going to do what it wants to do and all you can do is react, Sharno wasn't able to react appropriately in the short time he had.

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## The Snark (Sep 8, 2015)

Recriminations, accusations, excuses, explanations, and of course, waffles. Let's get over and past it. You are dealing with fast unpredictable animals. They will always surprise you when you least expect it.

I think there should be a rough rule of thumb like we have when dealing with electricity. Give that stuff about an inch of open air to jump for every 1000 volts and multiply by 10 for a safe distance. Now all we have to do is bang together an analogous algorithm for hots. An OBT has a 2.5 KiloVolt Potential and so on. Round out towards the safer figure. O Hannah's a 5 KVP, and so on. Nertz???

The point is, a tag or zap is inevitable. With animals the thinking always tends towards maybe or possibly. Think electricity. Always. Definitely. Inevitably. Change your brain. Don't see a hot, a scorp, a T, a snake, but an anode. A live wire. A pure, real and present hurt waiting to happen if the distance goes under X.

I'm using this analogy for a very real reason. Hot keepers get zapped a lot more than electricians yet many electricians dice with the big zaps on a daily basis. There is room for complacence with hots. None for electricity. We ALWAYS follow the distance safety rule and always have special tools that assure our safety.  The difference between hots and zaps is , whew, I got lucky! A dry bite. And lying on a gurney: Whew, I got lucky. Only going to lose my arm. What was that rule? Both hands on the hot stick, stupid! (Hot stick: a 10 foot pole with a meter to tell you if a circuit is hot)

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## Angel Minkov (Sep 8, 2015)

I don't rehouse in the bathtub. Very inconvenient. I rehouse on my bed. It's about 2.20x2.20, 15-20 cm. high so nothing hazardous. If the T is plump, I rehouse on the ground. I use a long stick I found which is about 25-30 cm. + for OWs. For Grammostola and Brachypelma, I just use tongs if large individuals or hands (more control over a small 1'' sling than something long, I have shaky hands...) for small slings.


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## Blueandbluer (Sep 8, 2015)

Man, I'm sorry I missed the part of the conversation where we were talking migraines, as I'm a chronic migraineur. At my worst I was having 22 headache days a month. I was so depressed from the chronic pains that had it kept up, well... Not sure I'd still be here. I started a Botox regimen and it saved my life. Every three months I have to get 31 injections across my forehead, scalp, neck, and shoulders. It hurts a lot to get done, and even with insurance it costs me $350 every time. For all that I wouldn't give it up for the world as it was the only thing that was able to make my, life tolerable.

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## Angel Minkov (Sep 8, 2015)

I have headaches 31/31 days of the months as well and pills no longer help at all. I take more than the daily dose I should be taking and there is still no effect. I still try to keep within the recommended dosage as to not intoxicate myself... Sometimes I wonder if I might have a brain tumor, because the pain is pretty unbearable nowadays, and coupled with my chronic tendon/joint pain its pretty hard to live with.


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## Ellenantula (Sep 8, 2015)

Angel Minkov said:


> I have headaches 31/31 days of the months as well and pills no longer help at all. I take more than the daily dose I should be taking and there is still no effect. I still try to keep within the recommended dosage as to not intoxicate myself... Sometimes I wonder if I might have a brain tumor, because the pain is pretty unbearable nowadays, and coupled with my chronic tendon/joint pain its pretty hard to live with.


Have you been seen by a physician in case there is an alternative treatment?  Could be other things to try.  Daily headaches sound horrible.


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## Angel Minkov (Sep 8, 2015)

Ellenantula said:


> Have you been seen by a physician in case there is an alternative treatment?  Could be other things to try.  Daily headaches sound horrible.


I've visited all the doctors I can for all my chronic pains. For my joint/tendon pains the answers were most commonly "there is nothing wrong with you" and "go swimming". For the headache there was no answer I think.


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## Blueandbluer (Sep 9, 2015)

If you're taking anything over the counter daily, stop. There's something called "rebound headache" that is caused by OTC pain meds like paracetomol and ibuprofen getting overused. I used to have that problem too. http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/rebound-headaches/basics/definition/con-20024096

I'm not sure what kind of headache treatments are available in Bulgaria, but see if your doctor can prescribe something like Topamax that stops the headaches BEFORE they begin, instead of being taken when the pain hits. It may take a week or so, but it'll help break the cycle. 

PM me if you want more info... after years and years of dealing with chronic migraine I actually know more than most general practitioner docs (but not more than an actual neuro, of course...)

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## Angel Minkov (Sep 9, 2015)

To be honest I stopped taking them, because they had no effect. No point in excess gulping of pills when they don't help. I might go to a neurologist soon to check me out, but I'm not sure it's worth it... I hate going to the doctors because 99% of them are no more useful than my dog when it comes to medicine - buying your diploma/license is a real thing here in Bulgaria... Hence why I want to study medicine in Germany


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## KristinaMG (Sep 9, 2015)

Blueandbluer said:


> Man, I'm sorry I missed the part of the conversation where we were talking migraines, as I'm a chronic migraineur. At my worst I was having 22 headache days a month. I was so depressed from the chronic pains that had it kept up, well... Not sure I'd still be here. I started a Botox regimen and it saved my life. Every three months I have to get 31 injections across my forehead, scalp, neck, and shoulders. It hurts a lot to get done, and even with insurance it costs me $350 every time. For all that I wouldn't give it up for the world as it was the only thing that was able to make my, life tolerable.


I feel your pain.  I was also having daily chronic migraines (and also went several months where upwards of 20 days per month were headache days).  Botox was on the table but I went with nerve blocks to try first.  I'm glad it worked, though I had to go every week at first, then every 2 weeks, then every 4.  Now I'm at every 6 weeks.

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## awiec (Sep 9, 2015)

Blueandbluer said:


> If you're taking anything over the counter daily, stop. There's something called "rebound headache" that is caused by OTC pain meds like paracetomol and ibuprofen getting overused. I used to have that problem too. http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/rebound-headaches/basics/definition/con-20024096
> 
> I'm not sure what kind of headache treatments are available in Bulgaria, but see if your doctor can prescribe something like Topamax that stops the headaches BEFORE they begin, instead of being taken when the pain hits. It may take a week or so, but it'll help break the cycle.
> 
> PM me if you want more info... after years and years of dealing with chronic migraine I actually know more than most general practitioner docs (but not more than an actual neuro, of course...)


I had doctors straight up tell me that I didn't have a migraine (as children are not "capable" of having them) and that I probably was de-hydrated. I've had severe migraines since I was 4 and there was nothing that my family could do for me besides giving me a cold wash clothe to help sooth the pain and a bucket to puke in. Around when I was 13 there was a news report saying "Scientist have been able to discover/prove that children as young as 4 can get migraines", I really wanted to punch the screen.

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## Blueandbluer (Sep 9, 2015)

Yikes. Mine didn't start until my teens... Bad enough, I can't even imagine having them as a small fry. I'm so sorry.


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## zonbonzovi (Sep 9, 2015)

(shakes cane, adjusts dentures) That's nothing, whippersnappers!  Anal seepage; chronic strep gout; goiter blobs and shrapnel in me tiddly bits.  Kids today!

Wait.  What the hell are we talking about???

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## The Snark (Sep 9, 2015)

OT Migraines. This may help some people. It partially worked for me. 
1. COMPLETE change of diet. Something in the foods you eat may be a contributor.
2. Change your pillow to an entirely different shape and firmness than what you are used to.
3. Address your condition as chronic, near debilitating hypertension. Take it SERIOUSLY! Give yourself time outs for relaxation, meditation, yoga or whatever you can get into and do these time outs as regularly as taking prescription meds.
4. Try out various tinted glasses or if you wear glasses, go without them for certain periods. Various colors in the visible light spectrum have been noted to help trigger the episodes. Also, the glasses pressure on scalp and bone may contribute. (It's instant migraine for me to go into stores that have high efficiency T8 lighting. Wearing my dark glasses pretty much eliminates it)
5. Change your mattress or pad it to make it harder. If already very firm, try the reverse. (Too soft mattresses are the source of dozens of chronic ailments.
6. Stop sitting that way. Sit with a markedly different posture. Changing your balance, physiological frame, that alters how you hold your head up can help offset the tension that leads to episodes.
&. Consider massages, Shiatsu, acupressure therapy, deep tissue massages, thermotherapy and accupuncture.
9. Odors have also been contributors. Get rid of as many of them as possible in your home. Especially the modern perfumes in stuff like laundry detergent, soaps, air fresheners and so on. If you could smell the raw chemical vehicles behind most of these scents you have a good chance of finding yourself on your knees in the bathroom, praying at the porcelain altar.

See all the trouble OBTs cause? :sarcasm:


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## awiec (Sep 10, 2015)

The Snark said:


> OT Migraines. This may help some people. It partially worked for me.
> 1. COMPLETE change of diet. Something in the foods you eat may be a contributor.
> 2. Change your pillow to an entirely different shape and firmness than what you are used to.
> 3. Address your condition as chronic, near debilitating hypertension. Take it SERIOUSLY! Give yourself time outs for relaxation, meditation, yoga or whatever you can get into and do these time outs as regularly as taking prescription meds.
> ...


I've done a lot of self awareness exercises that help me mitigate the pain and catch them before they get bad, the muscle exercises help too.


Anyway back to the spider, the nerve blocker treatment is an excellent development and Sharno needs to make sure he stresses the treatment he got in the formal bite report. This is also exciting as tarantula venom isn't well studied so finally finding something that seems to stop the reaction(though tissue damage is probably still happening) is a boon. I wonder if a nerve blocker could be used in conjunction with other treatments for things like centipede bites as well?


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## advan (Sep 10, 2015)

*Note*



zonbonzovi said:


> (shakes cane, adjusts dentures) That's nothing, whippersnappers!  Anal seepage; chronic strep gout; goiter blobs and shrapnel in me tiddly bits.  Kids today!
> 
> Wait.  What the hell are we talking about???


This is John's polite way of saying get back on topic and/or start a new thread in TWH.

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## The Snark (Sep 10, 2015)

awiec said:


> I wonder if a nerve blocker could be used in conjunction with other treatments for things like centipede bites as well?


Why not? They use it for a large number of therapeutic treatments. How about when the dentist numbs you up? Minor surgeries. Birthings. Debridment. Probably should make it available when you have nowhere else to go for that midnight snack except McDouchalds.


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## awiec (Sep 10, 2015)

The Snark said:


> Why not? They use it for a large number of therapeutic treatments. How about when the dentist numbs you up? Minor surgeries. Birthings. Debridment. Probably should make it available when you have nowhere else to go for that midnight snack except McDouchalds.


Yeah well those are "obvious" uses, I think this is one of the only times I've heard of a nerve blocker being used for a tarantula bite. I actually pondered at one point in time if such a treatment would work since muscle relaxers and pain meds really don't touch the more potent species; turns out that it does.


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## Tim Benzedrine (Sep 10, 2015)

zonbonzovi said:
			
		

> (shakes cane, adjusts dentures) That's nothing, whippersnappers! Anal seepage; chronic strep gout; goiter blobs and shrapnel in me tiddly bits. Kids today!
> 
> Wait. What the hell are we talking about???





advan said:


> This is John's polite way of saying get back on topic and/or start a new thread in TWH.


Meh, in his condition, he probably won't be around much longer to care where the topic heads!


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## Sharno (Sep 10, 2015)

Quick update, and then I will post on the bite forums as well in a day or so --

Thanks for the input everyone.  Glad that I could share the success of the nerve block - if by chance you find yourself in this situation, ask your doctor about it. It really was a life saver.
Bite was Sunday and today is Thursday - pain in the hand was gone within 36 hour or so, but muscle cramps/spasms are pretty bad.  The flexeril helps - when I have that in my system I pretty much don't have any, but when it wears off, they show up in the calfs, hamstrings areas, etc. I guess this may go on a few more days.

For those concerned that a visit to the ER or Urgent Care would jeopardize the hobby, I wouldn't have gone unless I felt it was necessary.  None of the people at the ER had seen a tarantula bite and I received no judgmental talks or sideways looks, even from those that were uneasy about spiders. They did admit they get people with pet snake bites.  

On a side note, when I did a follow up visit with my primary care doctor this week, they found everything to be fine but did want to call poison control "as a precaution" and I told them there was no need to (I had all my OBT documentation with me). They insisted (probably needed to cover their asses) and came back and poison control said everything was fine. They said that the poison control place new about OBTs immediately -- so you can be just as angry at the people who probably get bit and just call poison control freaking out.  

RE: Migraines - as a migraine sufferer, I have to second the person who said botox is amazing.  Nothing helped my 15+ year migraine situation until botox + propanolol (a blood pressure med, taken in the smallest dosage) -- it made all the difference in the world.

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## KristinaMG (Sep 10, 2015)

Does anyone think it odd that this many T keepers get severe migraines?  Interesting.  One of the things that drew me into this hobby was that it is calming and therapeutic for me. Stress is s big trigger for me for migraines and since I have a special needs child there is often a high level of stress. Having a hobby to escape into when I need a break makes a huge difference.


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## The Snark (Sep 10, 2015)

KristinaMG said:


> Does anyone think it odd that this many T keepers get severe migraines?  Interesting.  One of the things that drew me into this hobby was that it is calming and therapeutic for me. Stress is s big trigger for me for migraines and since I have a special needs child there is often a high level of stress. Having a hobby to escape into when I need a break makes a huge difference.


Not knocking the poster here but using the unintended implication of the wording 'T keepers get migraines'. This is a textbook example of pseudoscience. This is the stuff climate change deniers love. That the law makers use when passing overbearing and over-reaching laws. I watched Ted Cruz draw a conclusion based upon almost identical un-science in proclaiming the majority of scientists have concluded humans don't cause climate change. 

I'll give another example: *One third of people who keep Ts will die of cancer!* That is a fact and barefaced pseudoscience. See the little tiny galaxy wide hole in the argument?

---------- Post added 09-11-2015 at 08:58 AM ----------




awiec said:


> Yeah well those are "obvious" uses, I think this is one of the only times I've heard of a nerve blocker being used for a tarantula bite. I actually pondered at one point in time if such a treatment would work since muscle relaxers and pain meds really don't touch the more potent species; turns out that it does.


Good. As I mentioned before, the problem is how hard nerve bundles are to find and properly infiltrate for one, and the longevity of the effects. Most of us have had a nerve block at the dentist. S/He gives you a jab way at the back of the mouth, far away from the victim tooth. Often 2 or 3 jabs or moves the syringe around. Even in that small confined area there is some hit and miss.  Once effective, that whole side of your face goes numb.
The problems. Nerve bundles are tiny. When people think of them they visualize their veins or tendons. Even the drawings of nerves over emphasize their size.

Now take the nerve block the OP received to numb his arm. Somewhere in the shoulder is the nerve bundle. It is roughly 1/16th to 1/8th inch across. It also ramifies, branches, in numerous locations and is in fact a pair of nerve bundles. It is about 1 to 3 inches deep inside the shoulder depending on the patients physique.
Also in that location will be found the subclavian artery snugged right up against the nerve. That MUST NOT receive the injection. The result could be lethal as local anesthetic would get sent straight into the heart.
Then within the area we have the subclavian, phrenic and anterior thoracic nerve bundle branches. Inject into the latter and respiration to a part of the lung can be arrested.

Now to add to the soup. Within that area also resides, wracking memory here and tempted to grab the book, the serratus magnus, pectoralis minor and subclavian muscle bundles and farther distal, the massive ramified deltoid muscle bundles.

So you thread your way down there with the needle, inject and hope. Repeat while testing for effect, over and over. Getting the general picture?

They have to shoot at the major nerve bundle as it ramifies further when it enters the arm and it could take a dozen spot on injections to get it all out there.

Now to add more problems. The local anesthetic has a very limited efficacy time frame. Commonly quite a bit less than a half hour. The body carries the poison, yes, the anesthetic is technically a poison, away and eliminates it. So  they have to add a vasoconstrictant, vein shrinker, to temporarily reduced the blood profusion. Commonly the vaso constrictant of choice is epinephrine. Shrinks the veins, but has a few side effects. It's more common name is adrenaline. Ever got all nervous and jittery after the dentist gave you the shot? Well, it wasn't just the anticipation of the fun to follow.
So nerve blocks aren't quite as simple as a jab for an inoculation.

Will nerve blockers work as well as... Nerve blocks are 100% effective, once the correct nerve is anesthetized. Always. It is the only 100% effective pain eliminator. All other pain meds only mask the pain. They have absolutely no capability to reduce the pain signals sent to the brain. NONE.


PS OFF COLOR!! I have to  add a little comedy here. At a hospital in LA a doctor, a super cool black guy I would add, was performing an invasive tube placement. He was a specialist called in by the regular ER doc.
It was a very tricky placement and the doc is doing some Indian Fakir contortions to get it right. The probe limp and very uncooperative. The ER doc, female, asked at one moment in a hushed voice, "Did you get it? Is it in?" The specialist replied in a squeaky ghetto voice, "_What you mean, get it in mama? I can't even find it!!_."
A few minutes later the entire ER staff could be found ROTFL as silently as possible in the hallway.


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## awiec (Sep 11, 2015)

The Snark said:


> medical stuff


I was on the human medicine track so I'm aware of all of the complications when dealing with nerves; hell I'm a certified phlebotomist(plant breeder now though) and I remember even simple veins were a pain to find in some people. 

Though due to my migraines I feel as though I am more on the level of my tarantulas as I don't like a ton of light, don't want to be bothered and am always hungry (or I'm just anti-social and happen to have migraines).


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## KristinaMG (Sep 11, 2015)

The Snark...You're preaching to the choir if you are trying to remind me that correlation doesn't equal causation.  I was not trying to make any kind of scientific inference at all. I was wondering if others who experience chronic pain are also drawn to the hobby as a therapeutic outlet.


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## Sam_Peanuts (Sep 11, 2015)

The Snark said:


> Not knocking the poster here but using the unintended implication of the wording 'T keepers get migraines'. This is a textbook example of pseudoscience. This is the stuff climate change deniers love. That the law makers use when passing overbearing and over-reaching laws. I watched Ted Cruz draw a conclusion based upon almost identical un-science in proclaiming the majority of scientists have concluded humans don't cause climate change.
> 
> I'll give another example: *One third of people who keep Ts will die of cancer!* That is a fact and barefaced pseudoscience. See the little tiny galaxy wide hole in the argument?


I actually took it as the opposite, that she(?) meant people with migraine get Ts to help them reduce their stress level, not the other way around.

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## KristinaMG (Sep 11, 2015)

Sam_Peanuts said:


> I actually took it as the opposite, that she(?) meant people with migraine get Ts to help them reduce their stress level, not the other way around.


Thanks, yes, that is what I meant. And yes, I'm a she.


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## Sharno (Sep 11, 2015)

Interesting info on the nerve block and challenges, risks, etc.  Funny, the ER doc said nothing to me of ANY risks. Just like, "This is what we will do, and it will help."  

Granted, it would appear to me that the location of the bite and pain made it something he was comfortable with.  All the injections were right in the wrist area.  My pain was hand/palm as the bite was inside of the palm on the thumb side.  He did a few, we waited 15 seconds to see the numbing, then added more, and more.  When there was one area in pain left, he added a final 2-3 injections to the side a bit.  By then, the whole thing went numb. 

Relief lasted 6 hours or so, not just an hour.  He did re-inject some of the areas I think to ensure it was good, and also topped it off with a small dose of dilaudid but from what I have read, opiates don't help anyway.  

My guess is that he only went for the nerve block because it was in a safe area to try it?


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## The Snark (Sep 11, 2015)

Sharno said:


> Interesting info on the nerve block and challenges, risks, etc.  Funny, the ER doc said nothing to me of ANY risks. Just like, "This is what we will do, and it will help."
> 
> Granted, it would appear to me that the location of the bite and pain made it something he was comfortable with.  All the injections were right in the wrist area.  My pain was hand/palm as the bite was inside of the palm on the thumb side.  He did a few, we waited 15 seconds to see the numbing, then added more, and more.  When there was one area in pain left, he added a final 2-3 injections to the side a bit.  By then, the whole thing went numb.
> 
> ...


I mentioned Ts and migraines in the wrong way, sense, vein. Went into a tangent. Ramified? Sorry.

Sharno, how your doc did what he did exemplifies an aspect of the medical profession. People tend to think, generally speaking, all doctors are the same in skill and expertise. They aren't. Not even close. I had one doc more than happy to hack away at me with the knife looking for a foreign object on three occasions. Another doc adamantly refused. All depends on their personal views and assessments of their skills. The best example for your numbing scenario was a reimplantation surgery of a hand I followed closely. 4 surgeons including one who pioneered reimplatation surgery.  The youngest and least experienced surgeon became the team leader because hands were his specialty. Three other docs with an aggregate of a nearly half century more experience did most of the actual grunt work. So your doc knew his biz with your wrist. The next POD in that ER may have resorted entirely to MS IV.

Risks. Always some risk in every medical procedure. Judgment calls. I'm out of my depth here but my guess is the doc weighed one aspect against another. The vasoconstrictant must have reduced profusion to some degree, making it longer for the body to get rid of the venom. He worked out that was tolerable and acceptable in order to give you pain relief. Or what he did would not have effected profusion significantly at the bite site.


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## scott308 (Sep 11, 2015)

The Snark said:


> People tend to think, generally speaking, all doctors are the same in skill and expertise. They aren't. Not even close.


Q:  What do you call the person that finishes last in Med School?

A:  Doctor.

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## The Snark (Sep 12, 2015)

scott308 said:


> Q:  What do you call the person that finishes last in Med School?
> 
> A:  Doctor.


Somewhere out there is the worlds worst doctor!  And somebody probably has an appointment to see him tomorrow! -Carlin-


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## Medusa (Sep 12, 2015)

zonbonzovi said:


> (shakes cane, adjusts dentures) That's nothing, whippersnappers!  Anal seepage; chronic strep gout; goiter blobs and shrapnel in me tiddly bits.  Kids today!
> 
> Wait.  What the hell are we talking about???


When someone starts a thread on anal seepage, let me know. [emoji12]


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## Angel Minkov (Sep 12, 2015)

If out there was a doctor like Dr. Gregory House (House M.D)(hence me being a huge fan of the show and trying to memorize it/study from it), I'd kill to go study under his guidance... I want to become a doctor who will diagnose my patients properly, not treat them like garbage and then give them a crappy diagnosis. The OP obviously hit a good doctor who made the right call with the nerve block.


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## The Snark (Sep 13, 2015)

Angel Minkov said:


> If out there was a doctor like Dr. Gregory House (House M.D)(hence me being a huge fan of the show and trying to memorize it/study from it), I'd kill to go study under his guidance... I want to become a doctor who will diagnose my patients properly, not treat them like garbage and then give them a crappy diagnosis. The OP obviously hit a good doctor who made the right call with the nerve block.


Real docs.
Upon seeing 2 EMTII crews, ER staff, lab and ICU support on a code blue, Doc V pauses and the door and remarks, 'Looks like they have it covered.'
"I make it a rule to leave my patients in better condition than when I started". Doc M
"Doctors were invented to amuse the patient while nature heals the body." Doc H.
In an obscure remark about a colleague, "Some doctors make better carpenters."

Seems like if you are into dicing with hots it would do no harm to get to know the local hospital staff.


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## Angel Minkov (Sep 13, 2015)

I probably know more than these idiots around here who bought their diplomas. They can't even properly tell my grandmother which type of diabetes she has, can't properly manage her insulin intake... Hence her having multiple spikes and drops in her blood glucose, causing frequent hypo and hyperglycemias... Im surprised she doesn't have severe nerve damage...


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## The Snark (Sep 14, 2015)

Angel Minkov said:


> I probably know more than these idiots around here who bought their diplomas. They can't even properly tell my grandmother which type of diabetes she has, can't properly manage her insulin intake... Hence her having multiple spikes and drops in her blood glucose, causing frequent hypo and hyperglycemias... Im surprised she doesn't have severe nerve damage...


Brittle? I assume you're watching her diet like a dozen raptors eyeing a bunny and you've had a top pro endocrinologist weigh in.


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## vespers (Sep 14, 2015)

Angel Minkov said:


> If out there was a doctor like Dr. Gregory House (House M.D)(hence me being a huge fan of the show and trying to memorize it/study from it), I'd kill to go study under his guidance... I want to become a doctor who will diagnose my patients properly, not treat them like garbage and then give them a crappy diagnosis.





Angel Minkov said:


> I probably know more than these idiots around here who bought their diplomas.


So...let me get this straight....you think you may know more than licensed doctors, because you watch reruns of _House_??


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## Chris LXXIX (Sep 14, 2015)

Angel Minkov said:


> I probably know more than these idiots around here who bought their diplomas. They can't even properly tell my grandmother which type of diabetes she has, can't properly manage her insulin intake... Hence her having multiple spikes and drops in her blood glucose, causing frequent hypo and hyperglycemias... Im surprised she doesn't have severe nerve damage...


Ah ah, you are right. Those here in Italy who are too damn lazy or too much dumb, or just with LESS cash and "protection", go for Albania, Romania, Bulgaria etc Universities.

---------- Post added 09-14-2015 at 10:25 AM ----------




vespers said:


> So...let me get this straight....you think you may know more than licensed doctors, because you watch reruns of _House_??


Apart from "House".. i think he mean those licensed doctors aka "money and powerful friends = degree" doctors.
Here we have, seriously, old high profile Universities, among the oldest of Europe, and high level Hospitals, but still, being the land of corruption and the reign of organized crime things like that happens.
Here, in certain Hospitals: "Ippocrate".. who?


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## Angel Minkov (Sep 14, 2015)

vespers said:


> So...let me get this straight....you think you may know more than licensed doctors, because you watch reruns of _House_??


If you took 15 seconds of your day, you'd read that 99% of doctors here bought their degrees. Licensed - yes. Knowledgeable - no  

I have serious headaches and joint/tendon pain every day, yet all of them tell me there's nothing wrong with me. My grandmother's doctor recently almost killed her, because she gave her pretty bad advice on how to take her insulin. 

Snark, sadly, my grandmother has a very, very bad diet. No matter how often I try to tell her she needs to change it completely, she just doesn't want to. She basically eats yoghurt for breakfast and chicken with potato for lunch. Maybe a slice of bread with something before one of her daily insulin intakes. That's all she eats. I know there are tests which can be run to test your body for your different nutritional values like different elements - zync, iron and such, as well as Vitamin intakes which are best for your body. She doesn't seem fond of making one such test.

PS: Also, no. I watch lectures on ilnesses (as long as I can find any online ones), read about them all the time, also read about the biology of our body almost on a daily basis. Of course I'm not exploding with knowledge, as its hard to take it in alone without someone explaining it to me, but I'm trying my best. Not going to get into med school by sitting on my PC and playing video games all day.


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## The Snark (Sep 14, 2015)

Malignant diabetes+crap diet~=Rehousing OBTs with your bare hands. Get a kick arse blender ala Vitamix, make ultra broad spectrum nutrient drinks then scream in her face, USE IT OR LOSE IT! 1 GULP EVERY HOUR OR I SET FIRE TO THE SOFA!

Good luck with your med school. A friend went that route, breaking off twice part way for 2 relationships. She's now in the elite class of MD-Gyn with 12 1/2 years of med school behind her.


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## Angel Minkov (Sep 14, 2015)

The Snark said:


> Malignant diabetes+crap diet~=Rehousing OBTs with your bare hands. Get a kick arse blender ala Vitamix, make ultra broad spectrum nutrient drinks then scream in her face, USE IT OR LOSE IT! 1 GULP EVERY HOUR OR I SET FIRE TO THE SOFA!
> 
> Good luck with your med school. A friend went that route, breaking off twice part way for 2 relationships. She's now in the elite class of MD-Gyn with 12 1/2 years of med school behind her.


I will have to research different nutritional values of fruit/vegetables before doing anything, as I wouldn't want her to OD on some compound. What did your friend specialize in? Med school is harsh on relationships, but both me and my girlfriend want to go to med school.


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## The Snark (Sep 16, 2015)

Way off the subject but still relevant. Taking care of yourself is the big trick here. Don't expect modern medicine to be the end all be all last ditch perfect solution. This applies whether you are keeping hots or yourself from an early grave from malignant fast food-itis. You cover your bases first, just as the OP did when he got whammed and let the ER be the follow up: here's the hand, here's the whammer, and I'm going to pass out from the pain if you don't get your butts in gear STAT like, comprende?

Blood sugar balance and the almost perfect diet: Kick butt blender, mandatory. 1, large carrot, sliced up. 1/4 to 1/2 cup of two leafy greens - kale, spinach etc, 12 ounces soy milk, 1 large sheet sushi type seaweed, 1/2 tablespoon each of at least 6 nuts or seeds, wheat germ, cashews, almonds, sun flower seeds, flax seeds, etc and NO peanuts, 1 large apple, 1/2 to 1 almost ripe green banana and 6 to  12 brewers yeast tablets. Add water and blend to liquid. Then depending on blood sugar level add a mango, papaya or other sugary fruit. You can add a single serving ice tea with bogus sweetener for flavor. Blend to soup then add water until thin-ish liquid. If the greens are very thoroughly washed it will keep 48 hours in the fridge. Makes about 1 1/2 quart.

The body needs no other nutrition than this mix. (Tested in a laboratory. It provides 100% to 10,000% of all RDA of vitamins, minerals, carbs, protein etc). With plenty of water it floods the digestive system allowing it to decide what your body needs. The rest is wasted off, cleaning the colon in the process. With this as the base daily food, most diabetes conditions can be controlled.

PS There is no such thing as a wonder/super food or fabulous nutrition supplement be it honey, rabbit testicles, polar bear pee, Q-10 or refined mummy drippings. If you take any supplement and feel a beneficial effect it simply means your normal diet is nutrient deficient or you've screwed yourself up to the degree your body is scavenging anything it can get while breaking down resources like your bone marrow.. Period, paragraph exclamation mark, end of discussion.


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## HeartBum (Mar 11, 2022)

Chris LXXIX said:


> Where? In USA? If so, i agree with you. I doubt about a total, T ban scenario, in the United States of America. I share, and support, no matter, all the USA advanced keepers here, like Poec54, questions and concerns about, however.
> From what i know about "Stars And Stripes" nation, that would be hard. Just like for the Death Penalty, there's States laws who decide, unlike Europe (think if would be normal to have, in Italy or France, for instance, Death Penalty in the North, and not in the Southern part, or viceversa).
> 
> But bans, actually, DO happens. Italy, summer of 2003. Legge (law, in English) 213. Ban of ALL Arachnids.
> ...


Sigh. This didn't age well.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Chris LXXIX (Mar 11, 2022)

HeartBum said:


> Sigh. This didn't age well.


Only wine should

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Arachnophobphile (Mar 12, 2022)

Sharno said:


> I will post a bite report in a day or so when I have a more comprehensive snapshot.  I was rehousing a 4inch OBT with the intent of trading/selling/giving to local pet store, as I have no desire for the aggressive little buggers but had raised it from a sling - it grew so fast.  I have rehoused a dozens and have my routine, and was exceptionally careful. I am kicking myself because I was going to bring both cages to the pet store and let the T expert do the rehousing.
> 
> Anyway, like all bite reports, it happened in a flash, up the long tweezers after a gentle nudge when things looked to be going fine in the bathtub.  Then bam.  I thought I was imagining it, it happened so fast. She went into her new home and I suddenly felt the pain. Oh. My. God.
> 
> ...


Sorry to read you got bit and suffered.

This is a good post for any first time tarantula keepers wanting to jump head first into OW's.

Reactions: Agree 1


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