# Opinion



## Ratmosphere (Sep 25, 2015)

Is the pumpkin patch tarantula a hard species to keep as a beginner?


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## BobGrill (Sep 25, 2015)

It's very very fast and skittish. 

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## awiec (Sep 25, 2015)

If you have kept wolf spiders before then I'd say yes, go right ahead, if not I would not recommend it as they are basically little orange wolf spiders who can kick urticating hairs. They will follow you and try to guess where you are opening the cage to get out and are very bolt happy. The male I raised is the only spider I can say that I did not like keeping as it was always a fight to feed/water him and I hated having to deal with that. If you want an orange and black spider than something like a Brachypelma is much easier to keep and is less likely to try to run out on you.

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## TheHonestPirate (Sep 25, 2015)

Oh joy, I didnt know this and have two slings of them I believe, whats the scientific name?

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## Poec54 (Sep 25, 2015)

Not a beginner species.  Poor choice.  Way too fast and high strung.  I don't know if bites are an issue, but escapes sure are, any time the lid is opened, even a crack.  I suspect that they have one of the highest rates of escapes of any tarantula.  I have a bunch of them and don't know if I want to keep that species anymore, because they're so wired and fast.  I have a lot of OW's and arboreals, which are also fast, but they're more predictable and easier for me to work with.

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## KristinaMG (Sep 25, 2015)

Mine is constantly trying to bolt from his container whenever I open it.  He is still a sling, he's just over an inch in size.  He has made it out of his container 3 times so far.  I switched him to a container that has a little flip top over a small funnel which allows me to just drop a cricket in without opening the whole container, and this has prevented further elopements.  But to be honest, though he is pretty, I'm not a fan and would not get another one.  He is never out in view, and I only see him during his escapes. 



TheHonestPirate said:


> Oh joy, I didnt know this and have two slings of them I believe, whats the scientific name?
> 
> Sent from my C6725 using Tapatalk


The genus is Hapalopus.  I've seen them listed as Hapalopus sp. pumpkin patch, and Hapalopus sp. colombia.

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## Ratmosphere (Sep 25, 2015)

Thanks for all of the help!


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## widowkeeper (Sep 25, 2015)

i dont find them to be an issue fast and skittish yes defensive when in or around their home good at jail breaking everything i like in a tarantula

personaly i think just like tigerrumps they are a must for every collection

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## Poec54 (Sep 25, 2015)

KristinaMG said:


> He is never out in view, I only see him during his escapes.



This pretty well sums it up.


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## Tfisher (Sep 25, 2015)

I havent had to much of issue with my 3. Mine are the Large I would assume the Klein would be more difficult due to size but thats just a thought. After keeping a few fast species I was comfortable dealing with them. They have yet to escape on me. If its your first T i'd say absolutely not. but with some experience behind you it a species that is very fun to keep.


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## scorpionchaos (Sep 25, 2015)

Maybe I have a dumb one then....


Mine just happily sits there for the most part, sometimes bolts but never out of the bin... Just makes a mad dash for his Hidey-Hole. He runs out of his burrow faster then any other T i keep only at feeding time though, and then its right back down the burrow.


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## Ratmosphere (Sep 25, 2015)

*Opinion 2*

I feel like getting a new pet. However, I need some help in deciding which one to get. My choices are a large pumpkin patch tarantula sling, Mexican Red Knee tarantula sling, a wild caught Carolina wolf spider, or an other _Avicularia versicolor_ sling. Help me out!


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## MrDave (Sep 25, 2015)

*Opinion 2*

I cant explain my lack of interest in brachyopelma. They're big , beautiful tarantulas. I'd get another A. versicolor if mine was male. Don't care about non-tarantulas. So, that leaves the pumpkin patch. They look pretty interesting to me.


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## awiec (Sep 25, 2015)

You should have put this in your first thread as to not clog up the front page.

H.sp Columbia ["Pumpkin Patch"]- Not very fun for a first tarantula, small, fast and skittish unless that is your thing
Brachypelma-You need to figure out what species it is, telling us "Mexican Red Knee" doesn't tell me much of anything. Good size, calm, are good display animals and are a hobby classic, many people start off with this genus.
Hogna carolinensis-Will be fast and won't live as long as a tarantula but will train you to be able to deal with speed and attitude. Also if you realize that spiders aren't for you, it won't be living too long anyway.
Avicularia versicolor-Are more tricky care wise as new keepers are really good at killing them cause they can't seem to resist spraying them to death. I would not recommend this until you get general spider care under your belt. They are very colorful animals that are a great introduction to arboreal tarantulas.

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## Chris LXXIX (Sep 25, 2015)

Uhm, no. It's more an intermediate one, not exactly one of the best for start.

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## KristinaMG (Sep 25, 2015)

Ratmosphere said:


> I feel like getting a new pet. However, I need some help in deciding which one to get. My choices are a large pumpkin patch tarantula sling, Mexican Red Knee tarantula sling, a wild caught Carolina wolf spider, or an other _Avicularia versicolor_ sling. Help me out!


My first tarantula was a B. smithi. I've had her since she was a sling. She is now 4+ inches. If my experience is the norm, they're a great first T. Mine has always been calm, good eater, always out in the open.  She's kind of a pet rock, but that is helpful in a first T.

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## 14pokies (Sep 25, 2015)

Ratmosphere said:


> I feel like getting a new pet. However, I need some help in deciding which one to get. My choices are a large pumpkin patch tarantula sling, Mexican Red Knee tarantula sling, a wild caught Carolina wolf spider, or an other _Avicularia versicolor_ sling. Help me out!


The brachy is probably your best bet.. Iconic bullet proof relatively calm and slow moving.. The rest may be trouble for a newer keeper.

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## Blueandbluer (Sep 25, 2015)

If you're really not into the brachys (a shame, as they are great spiders and there are plenty of species if smithi isn't your thing), you could consider a GBB (chromatopelma cyaneopubescens). Not great if you want to handle as they are a mite skittish, but if you aren't handling they're ideal for beginners IMO. Easy care, good feeders, fast growers, and GORGEOUS.

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## Chris LXXIX (Sep 25, 2015)

Blueandbluer said:


> If you're really not into the brachys (a shame, as they are great spiders and there are plenty of species if smithi isn't your thing), you could consider a GBB (chromatopelma cyaneopubescens). Not great if you want to handle as they are a mite skittish, but if you aren't handling they're ideal for beginners IMO. Easy care, good feeders, fast growers, and GORGEOUS.


Happy to see another person who consider _Chromatopelma cyaneopubescens_ a good beginner one 
They are benign T's, never saw a "Psycho" GBB.

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## Roosterbomb (Sep 26, 2015)

They are opportunistic little sneaks...like a chihuahua that constantly tries to run out the door

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## johnny quango (Sep 26, 2015)

I don't actually own a Hapalopus sp Colombia but I do have a family member of it in the shape of Hapalopus triseriatus lowland (lemon patch) and mine seems relatively calm if a little shy, it as so far never tried to escape it just sits there or retreats to its hide. The only thing I would say is it as in the past flicked hairs at me but hey I've got a Brachypelma auratum that does this if I walk in the room. As for your option 2 if you have time on your hands get a brachypelma sling and wait and wait and wait for it to grow or get a juvenile/sub adult or adult and pay a premium for a B smithi as I'm lead to believe they can often be expensive in the USA either way as good and bad points or option 3 come over to the dark side and get a Grammostola sp as long as it's not a rosea/porteri you will be fine plus there's some truly beautiful tarantulas in the Grammy genus like pulchripes,pulchra,actaeon and iheringi most aren't as picky eaters as Brachypelma sp can be


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## GG80 (Sep 26, 2015)

My Hapalopus sp. colombia sling is very laid back. Doesn't even flinch when I do maintenance but I'm sure as it grows its attitude will change. However, I have some experience with a fast skittish T, my >3" Lp which constantly bolts around the enclosure the second I touch it making maintanence a bit tougher than my other Ts. I know it's not the same as a pumpkin patch but I'm far more confident dealing with bolting skittish spiders now than I would have been a year ago.


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## 8Legs8Eyes (Oct 2, 2015)

scorpionchaos said:


> Maybe I have a dumb one then....
> 
> 
> Mine just happily sits there for the most part, sometimes bolts but never out of the bin... Just makes a mad dash for his Hidey-Hole. He runs out of his burrow faster then any other T i keep only at feeding time though, and then its right back down the burrow.


I've never had an issue with mine either. He's in a good size container and likes to hide under a piece of cork bark slanted against the side. I can always see him through the side and he usually either doesn't move or runs to his hide whenever I pick up or open his container.


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## Nicolas C (Oct 2, 2015)

Envoyé de mon iPhone à l'aide de Tapatalk

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## viper69 (Oct 3, 2015)

The Pumpkin. Patch is a miniature version of a GBB in ALL aspects except color.

I own Pumpkin Patches and a GBB. Raised the GBB and my first Pumpkin Patch to adulthood both females.


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## NTslinger (Oct 3, 2015)

It's crazy how there are always individual tarantulas that defy the norm. My Pumpkin Patch, which I received as a freebie, has never bolted. While not particularly calm, mine just runs into its hide. Still, I would consider these guys an intermediate species.

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## Beary Strange (Oct 3, 2015)

Poec54 said:


> Not a beginner species.  Poor choice.  Way too fast and high strung.  I don't know if bites are an issue, but escapes sure are, any time the lid is opened, even a crack.  I suspect that they have one of the highest rates of escapes of any tarantula.  I have a bunch of them and don't know if I want to keep that species anymore, because they're so wired and fast.  I have a lot of OW's and arboreals, which are also fast, but they're more predictable and easier for me to work with.


They aren't bite prone at all, at least as young ones, but you're right, they are fast fast fast and so high strung. You can pick up their enclosure and feel them run around it several times in response. And like awiec mentioned, they seem to sense where you're opening the enclosure and that's the first place they bolt to (likely to do with the vibrations of touching it). I've never seen any OW behave the way they do,  which is interesting because you rarely see them brought up as a stepping stone.


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## awiec (Oct 4, 2015)

Belle Fury said:


> They aren't bite prone at all, at least as young ones, but you're right, they are fast fast fast and so high strung. You can pick up their enclosure and feel them run around it several times in response. And like awiec mentioned, they seem to sense where you're opening the enclosure and that's the first place they bolt to (likely to do with the vibrations of touching it). I've never seen any OW behave the way they do,  which is interesting because you rarely see them brought up as a stepping stone.


More like a stepping pebble cause they are so small. Also people probably lean towards taps and psalmos as they are close to the size of most arboreal OW. H.sp Columbia is a wolf spider with an orange and black paint job which they are great starters if you want to get into true spiders though.


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## MrsHaas (Oct 5, 2015)

Blueandbluer said:


> If you're really not into the brachys (a shame, as they are great spiders and there are plenty of species if smithi isn't your thing), you could consider a GBB (chromatopelma cyaneopubescens). Not great if you want to handle as they are a mite skittish, but if you aren't handling they're ideal for beginners IMO. Easy care, good feeders, fast growers, and GORGEOUS.


What she said!


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## owlbear (Oct 5, 2015)

My hapalopus large is insanely fast and skittish. I make a habit of cracking each corner of her enclosure lid open before actually fully opening it - by the time I've cracked every corner she's typically back in her burrow, at which point I plop food in and close it back up fast. Very pretty but quite intimidating to work with, I had no idea when I got mine, but don't regret it.

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## Poec54 (Oct 5, 2015)

owlbear said:


> My hapalopus large is insanely fast and skittish. I make a habit of cracking each corner of her enclosure lid open before actually fully opening it - by the time I've cracked every corner she's typically back in her burrow, at which point I plop food in and close it back up fast. Very pretty but quite intimidating to work with, I had no idea when I got mine, but don't regret it.



This is my experience too, and I have a bunch of them.  This would seem to be the norm for the species, and what someone buying one for the first time can expect.  Too fast and wired to be a beginner species.

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## owlbear (Oct 5, 2015)

Poec54 said:


> This is my experience too, and I have a bunch of them.  This would seem to be the norm for the species, and what someone buying one for the first time can expect.  Too fast and wired to be a beginner species.


Agreed. Thankfully I have worked with reptiles long enough to be calm around fast moving species, so I've done fine with mine. But I would definitely not recommend them to a someone new to the hobby myself.


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## MikeC (Oct 5, 2015)

At least they're brightly colored.
A drab escape artist is much harder to locate on carpet and hardwood.


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## awiec (Oct 5, 2015)

PTX said:


> At least they're brightly colored.
> A drab escape artist is much harder to locate on carpet and hardwood.


All the color in the world isn't going to help if you don't know where the spider went in the first place

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## MikeC (Oct 5, 2015)

awiec said:


> All the color in the world isn't going to help if you don't know where the spider went in the first place


Ain't that the truth.


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## Ratmosphere (Oct 10, 2015)

Sadly, I didn't choose any of these species. I had to think about what I really wanted. Now I have to decide if I want to put money down for a tattoo appointment or buy an _Avicularia minatrix_ sling. Maybe you guys could help me decide.


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## BobGrill (Oct 10, 2015)

That's entirely up to you to decide. 

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## KristinaMG (Oct 10, 2015)

Ratmosphere said:


> Sadly, I didn't choose any of these species. I had to think about what I really wanted. Now I have to decide if I want to put money down for a tattoo appointment or buy an _Avicularia minatrix_ sling. Maybe you guys could help me decide.


Tattoos are usually a lot more expensive than a single sling.. Unless your tattoo is about the size of a sling.


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## MikeC (Oct 10, 2015)

Ratmosphere said:


> Sadly, I didn't choose any of these species. I had to think about what I really wanted. Now I have to decide if I want to put money down for a tattoo appointment or buy an _Avicularia minatrix_ sling. Maybe you guys could help me decide.



A tattoo of a Minatrix, maybe?


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## Swifty (Oct 10, 2015)

Fast, but easy to care for. It's a beginner species.

---------- Post added 10-10-2015 at 01:44 PM ----------

Just because something is fast, doesnt make it a bad choice for a beginner. Plenty of P. murinus owners out there, which is fast and aggressive, but very predictable. A great beginner species.


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## BobGrill (Oct 10, 2015)

I would not consider P.murinus predictable. 

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## Swifty (Oct 10, 2015)

BobGrill said:


> I would not consider P.murinus predictable.
> 
> Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk


Why? They are an aggressive African species, so what is your question about them?


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## AphonopelmaTX (Oct 10, 2015)

Swifty said:


> Plenty of P. murinus owners out there, which is fast and aggressive, but very predictable. A great beginner species.


For any fast and aggressive animal to be considered predictable, one must have a lot of hands-on experience with it.  A beginner would not have this kind of familiarity and thus wouldn't find P. murinus to be predictable.

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## cold blood (Oct 11, 2015)

AphonopelmaTX said:


> For any fast and aggressive animal to be considered predictable, one must have a lot of hands-on experience with it.  A beginner would not have this kind of familiarity and thus wouldn't find P. murinus to be predictable.


100% agreement.   

I'm shocked to hear such an experienced keeper call P. murinus either predictable OR a good beginner species.  I see this species as one of the all time worst beginner species...and probably the worst if you are only considering terrestrials.

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## Swifty (Oct 11, 2015)

cold blood said:


> 100% agreement.
> 
> I'm shocked to hear such an experienced keeper call P. murinus either predictable OR a good beginner species.  I see this species as one of the all time worst beginner species...and probably the worst if you are only considering terrestrials.


Plenty of beginners have this species already, and because it's well known that they are super aggressive, and quick moving, makes them predictable. I'm not saying it's a good species to handle, or even a first tarantula. Be honest with yourselves here most of you guys saying it isn't a good beginner species had one when you were a beginner, and WoW, you survived. It's the one cool aggressive, and inexpensive species a beginner can have in their collection that teaches them to respect an aggressive tarantula. The fact is, it's not me saying it's a good beginner species, it's the reality of it being one because so many beginners have these already, and their doing fine with them. What defines a good beginner species for me also, is the captive requiments of a species, which these are very hardy. I believe most species could be good for beginners really, with some proper research. Plus, there are different reasons for people to want tarantulas. Some people are looking for calm species, and wouldn't be up for something like P. murinus, while others don't mind keeping P. murinus because their not interested in handling them. I had my first P. murinus when I was 17, and back then just having a tarantula at all meant you weren't really sane, but I loved keeping that spider, and there wasn't anybody telling me, "That's not a good beginner species", and I had less experience than these kids now do. I won't lie though, they will bite you if you give them the chance, but so can any species, but atleast you can "predict" that with P. murinus.

---------- Post added 10-11-2015 at 01:54 AM ----------

I can understand how people are saying, "I'm shocked he would suggest that!" But the thead is titled OPINION, and that's mine, even if it isn't "politcally correct".
When I bought my first motorcycle, I had to learn how to ride it, despite people saying, "You'll kill yourself" and "Motorcycles are dangerous!" If I listen to everybody, I wouldn't have taken it out of the garage.

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## edgeofthefreak (Oct 11, 2015)

*AHEM!blargh* (makes throat clearing noise, then chokes a bit... attempts to keep the thread on topic...)


When I was first researching tarantulas, I came across Hapalopus sp. Colombia "Large" and "Small" fairly early on. I added them to my list of potentials, due to their striking colouration and dwarf size. It was after reading a bit about them that I found out how fast they are. I like the opinion that they are a "wolf spider with an orange and black paint job".

I still find wolf spiders a bit intimidating. Mostly from a speediness standpoint. I'd be afraid that my "almost quick" reflexes would have me closing a lid on them, or blinking through an escape. I'm trying to get used to basic true spiders, as they are far more abundant than H. sp. Colombia around me. 

Maybe someday...

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## cold blood (Oct 11, 2015)

Swifty said:


> Be honest with yourselves here most of you guys saying it isn't a good beginner species had one when you were a beginner
> 
> I can understand how people are saying, "I'm shocked he would suggest that!" But the thead is titled OPINION, and that's mine, even if it isn't "politcally correct".
> When I bought my first motorcycle, I had to learn how to ride it, despite people saying, "You'll kill yourself" and "Motorcycles are dangerous!" If I listen to everybody, I wouldn't have taken it out of the garage.


Honest, I waited over a decade before I got my first OBT, simply BECAUSE I did the research. 

You are right, its your opinion, which I didn't chastise you for in any way, I merely said I was surprised, you are every bit as entitled to your opinion as I am.:smile:

Going in the direction of your chosen comparison....Was your first very first motorcycle a hopped up busa?  There are lots of cycles that would be perfectly appropriate for even a kid to begin on, the most powerful ones however, are generally not good choices, right?   We see it all the time with cars, lots of people get inappropriate cars as their first, things like v-8 mustangs and Camaros at 16 or 17, and some (many) crash or simply drive way too fast, most survive and many never actually crash, and a rare few never get into trouble with tickets or accidents, but it doesn't change the fact that their starter vehicle was a very poor first choice for almost every new driver.

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## Ratmosphere (Oct 19, 2015)

I chose the large Pumpkin Patch tarantula. :biggrin:


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## Storm76 (Oct 19, 2015)

My suspect girl is about 2.5" currently and while fast, she's also established a burrow in which she resides mostly. I only see her out at night sometimes and never had her bolt ever. She's pretty relaxed, although their behavior reminds me of Acanthoscurria spp. - with more coloration and speed!  Good luck raising your new tarantula.


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## Ratmosphere (Oct 20, 2015)

Thank you so much! I'm very excited to watch it grow.


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## owlbear (Oct 22, 2015)

Swifty said:


> Be honest with yourselves here most of you guys saying it isn't a good beginner species had one when you were a beginner, and WoW, you survived.


Yes, but if I had known how fast they were, I would have waited. Mine was very intimidating to work with at first and I was nervous when it came time to work on its enclosure. I wish I had waited, and I would not recommend it as a good beginner species. But I am not the type to try and police what others do, if they feel ready, that is for them to decide. Hope that makes sense.

Ratmosphere, enjoy! Mine grew very fast, soon yours will be so beautiful. Just always be ready, haha.

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## rockpython (Oct 22, 2015)

cold blood said:


> Honest, I waited over a decade before I got my first OBT, simply BECAUSE I did the research.
> 
> You are right, its your opinion, which I didn't chastise you for in any way, I merely said I was surprised, you are every bit as entitled to your opinion as I am.:smile:
> 
> Going in the direction of your chosen comparison....Was your first very first motorcycle a hopped up busa?  There are lots of cycles that would be perfectly appropriate for even a kid to begin on, the most powerful ones however, are generally not good choices, right?   We see it all the time with cars, lots of people get inappropriate cars as their first, things like v-8 mustangs and Camaros at 16 or 17, and some (many) crash or simply drive way too fast, most survive and many never actually crash, and a rare few never get into trouble with tickets or accidents, but it doesn't change the fact that their starter vehicle was a very poor first choice for almost every new driver.


This is a good analogy. I've never thought of it like that. While I disagree with much of "the ladder" system. This makes sense to me.

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## Swifty (Oct 22, 2015)

rockpython said:


> This is a good analogy. I've never thought of it like that. While I disagree with much of "the ladder" system. This makes sense to me.


 Yeah, as much as this statement might work for alot of people, the fact is, that when I was 17 I had a 1974 LT Camero, never wrecked it, and when I was 18 I had a Yamaha 750 Maxim, ended up selling it. So as much as this may work for the general population, the general population doesn't keep spiders.

---------- Post added 10-22-2015 at 01:03 PM ----------

Also, Let me mention that When I was refering to the motorcycle thing, I was mainly refering to the power of the bike, NOT the dangers of other drivers, which is a different spin on what I meant. It's one thing to be able to handle your bike, and another to be able to handle it on the road with other drivers. I mainly was taking about the power of the bike, but anybody that rides, knows it's more that just the bike itself. My example may not have gotten my point across, but my point is, wether people want spiders like P. murinus to be advanced species or not, the fact of life is, they are being kept by more beginners than anyone. My question is, are you worried about the spider being in jepardy, or the owner? With this species the spider usually does well. So when people say A. versicolor is a good beginner species, how many of them die? Do you really want me to tell you the truth?

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## cold blood (Oct 22, 2015)

Swifty said:


> My question is, are you worried about the spider being in jepardy, or the owner? With this species the spider usually does well. So when people say A. versicolor is a good beginner species, how many of them die? Do you really want me to tell you the truth?


Both.  We have seen OBTs that had become more than new owners can deal with and basically neglect them, often to death.   There have been plenty of people that have picked up an OBT from an owner that couldn't deal and they're generally in horrible conditions be the time they are gotten rid of...being as tough as the species is, most don't actually die, but I'm sure many do as they are left to die out of fear.

Then there's the new keeper, not being experienced IMO puts them in a position to be more likely to make an error that results in a bite.  Also more experience means a better understanding of the animal, making them easy to deal with and predict....without experience they can be viewed as very unpredictable.

As for the versi, I agree 100% that avics are not the best or even a good beginner species, both poec and I (and many others) have repeatedly expressed that to numerous individuals....I hate to see them needlessly die because of husbandry confusion or misconceptions.  They're a bad beginner species however, for very different reasons.  Like you eluded to, waaaay too many die in the hands of new owners.


I got you with the bike thing, I didn't even bring up the dangers of other drivers  Like I said, a select few will drive high powered vehicles at a young age without issue, but most don't.

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## Swifty (Nov 19, 2015)

cold blood said:


> Both.  We have seen OBTs that had become more than new owners can deal with and basically neglect them, often to death.   There have been plenty of people that have picked up an OBT from an owner that couldn't deal and they're generally in horrible conditions be the time they are gotten rid of...being as tough as the species is, most don't actually die, but I'm sure many do as they are left to die out of fear.
> 
> Then there's the new keeper, not being experienced IMO puts them in a position to be more likely to make an error that results in a bite.  Also more experience means a better understanding of the animal, making them easy to deal with and predict....without experience they can be viewed as very unpredictable.
> 
> ...


Ok, first on the OBT thing. I sell the crap out of them, and NEVER has anybody complained they can't handle them. They understand the point of being aggressive, but they deal with it. I think political correctness, and people being a bunch of wimps, plays a big role. These are tarantulas, and not hamsters, so lets understand that. I think basically that people on Arachnoboards care more about their count of posts and fan favor than really telling people how it is. I don't post much, cause I don't have time, but this website has become a bitter place to come and talk about arachnids. People are afraid to say whats on their mind. I don't have that problem. You believe who you want in this thread, but all I can say is get yourself an OBT, you can handle it.

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## Poec54 (Nov 19, 2015)

Swifty said:


> Yeah, as much as this statement might work for alot of people, the fact is, that when I was 17 I had a 1974 LT Camero, never wrecked it, and when I was 18 I had a Yamaha 750 Maxim, ended up selling it.



Interestingly, at birth there's 3 percentage points more males born.  By age 21, the sex ratio is equal.  Whether it's teenage boys smashing their cars, or pushing their luck with saber tooth cats, long ago nature has adapted to a certain number of adolescent boys never making it to maturity because of reckless behavior and poor judgment.  Most survive more or less in one piece, some unlucky ones don't.  That's our species.


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## Swifty (Nov 19, 2015)

Poec54 said:


> Interestingly, at birth there's 3 percentage points more males born.  By age 21, the sex ratio is equal.  Whether it's teenage boys smashing their cars, or pushing their luck with saber tooth cats, long ago nature has adapted to a certain number of adolescent boys never making it to maturity because of reckless behavior and poor judgment.  Most survive more or less in one piece, some unlucky ones don't.  That's our species.


Yeah, I guess those unlucky ones bought OBTs and died.

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## Thistles (Nov 19, 2015)

Swifty said:


> These are tarantulas, and not hamsters, so lets understand that.


Good thing, too. I'd take an OBT over a hamster any day!
[video]https://youtu.be/Cf06WJQ4FnE[/video]


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## ratluvr76 (Nov 19, 2015)

Ratmosphere said:


> I chose the large Pumpkin Patch tarantula. :biggrin:


Congrats on the pumpkin patch.  I bought 2 of them about a year ago now and I will never regret that purchase. One matured a few months ago, he has beautiful little hooks.  I'm guessing the other one must be female, and also close to maturity. 

things to note about this species from a relatively new spider keeper;

They are fast.
They are very intelligent, as spiders go and as has been mentioned earlier in the thread, they can anticipate you're movements and will try to bolt out of the enclosure if you leave opportunity.
They are HUNGRY!!!
They are fast....
They are kind of skittish, although my suspect female has never used a burrow and stays out in the open for the most part, the male stays in the burrow always.
They are fast.

Tips for dealing with them during maintenance, feedings and rehousing:

when you start to do anything with your pumpkin patch, First thing's first, visually locate it if possible. make sure it's not at the top of the enclosure near where you will be opening it. Try to gauge it's mood. Is it racing around the perimeter of the enclosure in laps? is it running up the walls, over the ceiling of the enclosure and back down? is it in a threat posture before you even start to open the lid? If so, put the cage back on the shelf and leave it alone for a while. Never, ever put your hand inside the enclosure. Use your feeder tongs to handle the water dish, pick up boluses and rearrange "furniture" if you have any if necessary. Use a syringe to fill the water bowl. Most of all, enjoy it! They are a really beautiful species and their smaller size is endearing.

Most of this is pretty much standard basics for dealing with any species though honestly. You really just have to be more aware of it's mood and general attitude then, say, a Grammostola porter.

As for the OBT discussion that keeps trying to hi-jack this thread. I got an OBT as a surprise freebie with an order of spiders I got around Halloween 2014. I was NOT happy of having had it sent with my other spiders as I did not feel ready or comfortable having one yet. So far, it's gone well, thankfully although I don't really like it. I care for it as well as my others but it's definitely not my favorite. I certainly won't be getting another one any time soon, or ever really. It's not that I'm afraid of it, though it does make me nervous. It's definitely not a good spider for beginners.


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## cold blood (Nov 19, 2015)

Swifty said:


> I think basically that people on Arachnoboards care more about their count of posts and fan favor than really telling people how it is. I don't post much, cause I don't have time, but this website has become a bitter place to come and talk about arachnids.


Post count is nothing more than an indicator of involvement....whether one cares about the count or not, it moves without the users control.  Just because one has a high post count is in no way an indicator that the user gives 2 oop:s about it.

I've seen nothing bitter in this thread, just people talking about arachnids as usual.  :smile:

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## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (Nov 19, 2015)

ratluvr76 said:


> Congrats on the pumpkin patch.  I bought 2 of them about a year ago now and I will never regret that purchase. One matured a few months ago, he has beautiful little hooks.  I'm guessing the other one must be female, and also close to maturity.
> 
> things to note about this species from a relatively new spider keeper;
> 
> ...


 I like OBT give it away to me please!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shawnee (Nov 20, 2015)

I got a pumpkin patch pretty early on. It was actually maybe my third tarantula? I don't remember. Ginger is definitely fast, skittish, and loves to kick her hair at me. I definitely didn't prefer rehousing her as opposed to some other species. But she's really beautiful, and I love seeing her when she's out. I don't find her difficult really. Like someone else said, if I'm about to open the enclosure of a skittish species, I mock open it until they run to their burrows. (Basically opening and closing the lid shortly a bunch of times) This helps.


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## Nicolas C (Nov 20, 2015)

Swifty said:


> Plenty of beginners have this species already, and because it's well known that they are super aggressive, and quick moving, makes them predictable. I'm not saying it's a good species to handle, or even a first tarantula. Be honest with yourselves here most of you guys saying it isn't a good beginner species had one when you were a beginner, and WoW, you survived. It's the one cool aggressive, and inexpensive species a beginner can have in their collection that teaches them to respect an aggressive tarantula. The fact is, it's not me saying it's a good beginner species, it's the reality of it being one because so many beginners have these already, and their doing fine with them. What defines a good beginner species for me also, is the captive requiments of a species, which these are very hardy. I believe most species could be good for beginners really, with some proper research. Plus, there are different reasons for people to want tarantulas. Some people are looking for calm species, and wouldn't be up for something like P. murinus, while others don't mind keeping P. murinus because their not interested in handling them. I had my first P. murinus when I was 17, and back then just having a tarantula at all meant you weren't really sane, but I loved keeping that spider, and there wasn't anybody telling me, "That's not a good beginner species", and I had less experience than these kids now do. I won't lie though, they will bite you if you give them the chance, but so can any species, but atleast you can "predict" that with P. murinus.


Bravo Swifty!

I find these points from Swifty very interesting for several reasons:

- Because it's true that P murinus have bad moods, are fast and have potent venom, people will be extra careful with them and very prudent: most accidents happen when someone feel too confident; it's difficult to feel this way with P murinus.

- Because they are hardy, they will survive lots of beginners errors. I remember: I made a lot back then!

- Because they are fast and angry, the keeper will learn a lot dealing with them (experience comes when facing the difficulties).

- And finally because, in all honesty, Swift's opinion (yes, it's about sharing different opinions, is there enough room for that on AB?) matches my own experience and the experience of the keepers/breeders in know in Switzerland. I bought a P murinus as my fifth tarantula, and I wasn't full of expericence back then. I was so happy welcoming this spider in my home (So beautiful and interesting! It had nothing to do with me being a "male", but rather with the pleasure of keeping this particular sp.), and maybe some of you will remember when you bought a tarantula just because you couldn't help buying THIS one... Anyway, I learnt a lot with her (she's still here!), and there was no problems at all because, once again, I was cautious. Same with my friends (one of them began with a H lividum 20 years ago and is now keeping more than 100 adult Ts on a regular basis). Of course, accidents could happen, but all the same with a B smithi or G rosea handled because she seemed so tame...

Thanks Swifty for giving another "son de cloche" (as we say in french, which means another opinion). I'm with you on this one. Let's make AB something else than an intolerant place or a "one-minded" place... There's enough of this crap in the rest of the world...

Reactions: Like 1


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## Storm76 (Nov 20, 2015)

Swifty said:


> Ok, first on the OBT thing. I sell the crap out of them, and NEVER has anybody complained they can't handle them. They understand the point of being aggressive, but they deal with it. I think political correctness, and people being a bunch of wimps, plays a big role. These are tarantulas, and not hamsters, so lets understand that.


On a fair note, do you really think anyone would -complain- about a freebie? I can't really imagine it, but that being said: I don't care if people think I'm stupid for saying this, I do not think it's a good thing to send these out as freebies. Particularly not, because you, as seller, usually don't know who's on the other side. Let's face it: Sellers want to make money and that depends on customers coming back to purchase again. And since it's a very popular species, it's only natural to chose them. What you forget is that there's a ton of people out there with no common sense at all (the hamster analogy there) that think one T is like any other. Even more don't research a species before they get them - there's lots of threads on here of people stating they ordered a T, but "couldn't find information" on them. Basically wanting to be hand-fed to get a rundown on it.



Swifty said:


> I think basically that people on Arachnoboards care more about their count of posts and fan favor than really telling people how it is. I don't post much, cause I don't have time, but this website has become a bitter place to come and talk about arachnids. People are afraid to say whats on their mind. I don't have that problem. You believe who you want in this thread, but all I can say is get yourself an OBT, you can handle it.


I've noticed some bitterness, yes. However, this is a forum and anyone can voice their opinion in a civilized, respectful way. Some got fed up with doing so, others keep on doing so. There's been a bunch of discussion in which opionions clash and then someone starts throwing out not-so-cilvilized comments, at which points the mods have to step in. I made my own mistakes in the past - I learned from it. Back 2 topic at hand - I don't care what people think of my answers to questions. I can openly say that when I post something, it's my personal opinion, no someone elses. If it happens to be on the line with some other poster, fine. If not, well then it's not. I do my research usually and while mistakes happen sometimes (right, Chad?) I don't tend to state seemingly uncertified information. That some people get hurt over an answer they didn't like, isn't my problem. You ask for something, you get an answer, deal with it. Some here are more blunt than others (hell, I simply dislike talking around the bush - I'm European...we tend to be to-the-point, sry! ) and that sometimes rubs people the wrong way. Grow up it's all I can say to it! You just -read- something on a forum, it's not like someone yelled in your face or -made- you do something! 

Bottom line: It is my personal opinion that OBTs and other OW freebies shouldn't be considered to -newer- customers one doesn't know! That the species is bred like crazy and there's always someone offering them, doesn't mean they need to be handed out like cookies at a christmas bazar in my world. All that aside the fact that a hamster can be viciously biting you, but you won't have to be in agony for days to come when bit. So, there's that - now people can disagree with me 

P.S: Nope, this is not a personal attack in any way, shape, or form. It's a personal opinion. Just stating that again

Reactions: Like 2


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## Swifty (Nov 20, 2015)

Storm76 said:


> On a fair note, do you really think anyone would -complain- about a freebie? I can't really imagine it, but that being said: I don't care if people think I'm stupid for saying this, I do not think it's a good thing to send these out as freebies. Particularly not, because you, as seller, usually don't know who's on the other side. Let's face it: Sellers want to make money and that depends on customers coming back to purchase again. And since it's a very popular species, it's only natural to chose them. What you forget is that there's a ton of people out there with no common sense at all (the hamster analogy there) that think one T is like any other. Even more don't research a species before they get them - there's lots of threads on here of people stating they ordered a T, but "couldn't find information" on them. Basically wanting to be hand-fed to get a rundown on it.
> 
> 
> I've noticed some bitterness, yes. However, this is a forum and anyone can voice their opinion in a civilized, respectful way. Some got fed up with doing so, others keep on doing so. There's been a bunch of discussion in which opionions clash and then someone starts throwing out not-so-cilvilized comments, at which points the mods have to step in. I made my own mistakes in the past - I learned from it. Back 2 topic at hand - I don't care what people think of my answers to questions. I can openly say that when I post something, it's my personal opinion, no someone elses. If it happens to be on the line with some other poster, fine. If not, well then it's not. I do my research usually and while mistakes happen sometimes (right, Chad?) I don't tend to state seemingly uncertified information. That some people get hurt over an answer they didn't like, isn't my problem. You ask for something, you get an answer, deal with it. Some here are more blunt than others (hell, I simply dislike talking around the bush - I'm European...we tend to be to-the-point, sry! ) and that sometimes rubs people the wrong way. Grow up it's all I can say to it! You just -read- something on a forum, it's not like someone yelled in your face or -made- you do something!
> ...


I do give these away for freebies, but I give the buyer the option if they want one. I never send to a customer that isn't buying something else aggressive, unless they request it. I'm not sending them a hand grenade with the pin missing. Like I said, it's not just MY opinion, it's the hobby that exists opinion. They want what they want, and just because people on these boards are more in favor of them not being a good beginner species, it really doesn't represent the entire hobby.

---------- Post added 11-20-2015 at 08:58 AM ----------




Nicolas C said:


> Bravo Swifty!
> 
> I find these points from Swifty very interesting for several reasons:
> 
> ...


I'm in amazement that somebody actually agreed with me : )

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## Storm76 (Nov 20, 2015)

Swifty said:


> I never send to a customer that isn't buying something else aggressive, unless they request it. I'm not sending them a hand grenade with the pin missing.


If that's the case, you're one of the few that aren't just about making money. I was under the impression they're freebies for anyone purchasing a T - no matter that initial order. I was talking more about those sellers throwing an OBT into and order of Brachys, Grammos...the like. That sort of aggrevates me honestly. 

Anyways, forget I said anything

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## Swifty (Nov 20, 2015)

Since this thread has been hijacked, I admit, mostly by me, still gotta go with Hapalopus sp. "Pumpkin Patch" being a good beginner species. But my opinion is, and boy do I know this will get folks in an uproar, I think most species of tarantulas are good beginner species. When I say this, I'm talking about the aggression, not the husbandry. Because I think there is alot of species that the care might be difficult for beginners. 
Keep in mind, this IS just my opinion, but I have sold over 100,000 spiders, and that's alot of customer feedback.


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## Poec54 (Nov 20, 2015)

Not a good beginner species.  As someone who has a couple dozen Hapalopus, I'm thinking about selling/trading all of them because they're so prone to racing out of their cages, worse than anything else I have, and 2/3's of my collection is arboreals.


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## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (Nov 20, 2015)

Recently a friend of mine received a beginner species as a gift. It was her first tarantula Grammostola porteri. The person that gave her the porteri he told her hold your tarantula as much as possible so you can get used to you. Keep your tarantula wet at all times. When she told me this my first response to her was forget everything that this individual said and start over. I had to teach her the living condition of this beautiful creatures that she knew nothing about and being misinformed. 

My point to this is, giving the wrong information of the care of your animal and not having the knowledge of them your new animal is not a good beginner species to begin with no matter what species that may be.


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## Swifty (Nov 20, 2015)

Poec54 said:


> Not a good beginner species.  As someone who has a couple dozen Hapalopus, I'm thinking about selling/trading all of them because they're so prone to racing out of their cages, worse than anything else I have, and 2/3's of my collection is arboreals.


Rick, Bro, Your not a beginner, you just don't like them because their fast. Hey i've chased their little arses too, but still love them. Speed is just a part of keeping tarantulas. I'm not a judge on people's reflexes, and I can't baby my customers to the point of paranoia. I can't investigate everybody's skill level, it's not that I don't care, it's just the reality. I get the feeling sometimes that when I say things like tarantulas are one of the easiest exotic animals to keep, I'm destroying somebody on this board for all their hard work giving advice. I have kept just about everything at one point or another, and tarantulas are easy.

Reactions: Like 1


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## awiec (Nov 20, 2015)

At a certain point you gain insight on what the animal is going to do, spiders aren't that complex, they can only do so many things. Of course this takes time and I think I'm just going to start suggesting true spiders to people, learn with a cheap, fast animal that isn't going to hurt you if it nips you.


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## Chris LXXIX (Nov 20, 2015)

_Pterinochilus murinus_ shouldn't be discussed but loved without "but", "if" or anything else by the T's community. No _Theraphosidae_ is like the mighty 'OBT'. No one.

'OBT' is the most underrated (in a different sense) _Theraphosidae_ ever. They are cheap, always available, easy to breed, hardy, and with that hell attitude. This mix is a perfect mix for reckless retards seeking for show something, of course. That's why there's a lot of "newby with OBTs". 

No beginners, or unprepared ones should own those, granted. Everyone knows this captain obvious facts. But i would gladly see more on boards, from advanced keepers, praise for that untamed and unpredictable _Theraphosidae_.

genus _Haplopelma_, genus _Chilobrachys_, genus _Poecilotheria_ etc aren't like "him".

I owned all of those T's genus (except for genus _Poecilotheria_, but i re-housed in the past some of those for friends).

_Pelinobius muticus_ is a gentle giant. _Heteroscodra maculata_ and _Stromatopelma calceatum_, if housed correctly and someone doesn't mess too much, loves to stay safe.

But the only one i expect the unexpected from, is 'OBT'. There's no place for errors with them.

The fact that is so "mainstream" is a shame IMO. Those are eight legged legends.

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## Poec54 (Nov 20, 2015)

Swifty said:


> Rick, Bro, Your not a beginner, you just don't like them because their fast.



The majority of my spiders are fast, and feisty, but they usually run for their hides when disturbed and maintenance is straightforward.  Hapalopus is ready to zip out of the cage the entire time the lid is up, even just a crack on one side, which is starting to lose it's novelty.  I don't have to deal with this with OW arboreals!   I'm not worried about a bite, but them racing under some heavy shelving.


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## awiec (Nov 20, 2015)

Poec54 said:


> The majority of my spiders are fast, and feisty, but they usually run for their hides when disturbed and maintenance is straightforward.  Hapalopus is ready to zip out of the cage the entire time the lid is up, even just a crack on one side, which is starting to lose it's novelty.  I don't have to deal with this with OW arboreals!   I'm not worried about a bite, but them racing under some heavy shelving.


It's why after mine matured I did not want another one, if I'm going to fight with a spider to keep it in its cage then I'll do it with one I'm more interested in; T.gigas fills my orange speed demon needs.


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## Swifty (Nov 20, 2015)

Poec54 said:


> The majority of my spiders are fast, and feisty, but they usually run for their hides when disturbed and maintenance is straightforward.  Hapalopus is ready to zip out of the cage the entire time the lid is up, even just a crack on one side, which is starting to lose it's novelty.  I don't have to deal with this with OW arboreals!   I'm not worried about a bite, but them racing under some heavy shelving.


 WAH Wah, really Rick? I'm sorry, but you crying about them being fast is kinda funny. Try some true spiders, with speed : ) Spiders be spiders, life is cruel...hehe

---------- Post added 11-20-2015 at 06:17 PM ----------




Chris LXXIX said:


> _Pterinochilus murinus_ shouldn't be discussed but loved without "but", "if" or anything else by the T's community. No _Theraphosidae_ is like the mighty 'OBT'. No one.
> 
> 'OBT' is the most underrated (in a different sense) _Theraphosidae_ ever. They are cheap, always available, easy to breed, hardy, and with that hell attitude. This mix is a perfect mix for reckless retards seeking for show something, of course. That's why there's a lot of "newby with OBTs".
> 
> ...


Oh wow, very dramatic. I've heard that OBT's can shoot flames out of their asses too! Why are we doing this to a great species. It's sad if you ask me.


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## Chris LXXIX (Nov 20, 2015)

Swifty said:


> WAH Wah, really Rick? I'm sorry, but you crying about them being fast is kinda funny. Try some true spiders, with speed : ) Spiders be spiders, life is cruel...hehe
> 
> ---------- Post added 11-20-2015 at 06:17 PM ----------
> 
> ...


I just don't like the fact that they are so popular due to high availability and low price. That's all.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Swifty (Nov 20, 2015)

Chris LXXIX said:


> I just don't like the fact that they are so popular due to high availability and low price. That's all.


 And there's something wrong?

---------- Post added 11-20-2015 at 08:35 PM ----------




Chris LXXIX said:


> I just don't like the fact that they are so popular due to high availability and low price. That's all.


 Hey could you just shut up?


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## Chris LXXIX (Nov 20, 2015)

Swifty said:


> And there's something wrong?
> 
> ---------- Post added 11-20-2015 at 08:35 PM ----------
> 
> Hey could you just shut up?


Yes to first IMO, no to second. I'm entitled to my opinion like everyone else.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Poec54 (Nov 20, 2015)

Swifty said:


> WAH Wah, really Rick? I'm sorry, but you crying about them being fast is kinda funny. Try some true spiders, with speed : ) Spiders be spiders, life is cruel...hehe
> 
> ---------- Post added 11-20-2015 at 06:17 PM ----------
> 
> ...



Kelly, you started off helpful in this thread, but this is really deteriorating.  Come on.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ellenantula (Nov 20, 2015)

Storm76 said:


> If that's the case, you're one of the few that aren't just about making money. I was under the impression they're freebies for anyone purchasing a T - no matter that initial order. I was talking more about those sellers throwing an OBT into and order of Brachys, Grammos...the like. That sort of aggrevates me honestly.
> 
> Anyways, forget I said anything


 The main freebie I always hear about (and I have received one too) is a B albo.


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## Swifty (Nov 21, 2015)

Poec54 said:


> Kelly, you started off helpful in this thread, but this is really deteriorating.  Come on.


Ok can't even play, I'm sorry. I'll try and be a good boy.

---------- Post added 11-21-2015 at 05:33 AM ----------




Chris LXXIX said:


> Yes to first IMO, no to second. I'm entitled to my opinion like everyone else.


 I was joking, I have no friends : )

Reactions: Like 1


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## Chris LXXIX (Nov 21, 2015)

Swifty said:


> Ok can't even play, I'm sorry. I'll try and be a good boy.
> 
> ---------- Post added 11-21-2015 at 05:33 AM ----------
> 
> I was joking, I have no friends : )


Friends? The important thing in life are enemies because "Molti nemici, molto onore" :coffee:


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## Ratmosphere (Dec 5, 2015)

UPDATE: I got all of the spiders that I listed.


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