# New Scorpion Adoption: Centruroides gracilis



## kitty_b (May 1, 2007)

so i'm up to my eyeballs in Centruroides exilicauda (37 babies that just won't grow fast enough, so i don't want to sell them off yet), and my last Vaejovis spinigerus died last month (group of WCs). 

i get a call from a friend who's moving and doesn't want to take along his scorpion (he's more of a reptile lover anyway). just says "florida bark scorpion," no gender or age. i assume he got it while down in florida on a snake hunt last summer. 

anyway, s/he's now here. obviously, i need to rehouse immediately, but i wanted to snap a few shots first. any guesses on gender? i don't want to upset it more by flipping it over and looking under its skirt, but i had read that size can be a reliable indicator of gender. 

anyway, voila! the newest addition to the "this might as well be a zoo" household!


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## brandontmyers (May 2, 2007)

I want some of these bad....hopefully next time i get paid i can find someone with some for sale...


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## EAD063 (May 2, 2007)

I think the bulbous paws are suspect of a female***, but I'm not entirely sure. Very nice though, I've also wanted one of these for a while (especially florida type, the more southern ones are all over but you don't see FL natives often.  :clap:


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## kitty_b (May 2, 2007)

well, i've moved her into a medium kritter keeper with deep, semi-damp peat moss, a cave made with a piece of slate rock, a dish of water crystals, and a sprig of fake ivy to help her (*wishful thinking*) feel secure.

amusingly, all she wants to do is climb the ivy, which quickly falls over and she lands on her back.


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## EAD063 (May 2, 2007)

Wait for another input before you drop all those "she" bombs , I don't want to be embarassed too bad. :8o


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## Bayushi (May 2, 2007)

the tail makes me say it's a female.  the segments don't seem to be long enough for it to be a male


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## kitty_b (May 2, 2007)

EAD063 said:


> Wait for another input before you drop all those "she" bombs , I don't want to be embarassed too bad. :8o


don't worry, i've been calling it a she anyway. i hate calling 'em "its"


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## Scorpfanatic (May 2, 2007)

can some one enlighten me the difference withj gracillis and margaritatis?

cos this scorp here looks different with mine gracillis, mnine seems to have lighter color legs!


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## xVOWx (May 2, 2007)

Scorpfanatic said:


> can some one enlighten me the difference withj gracillis and margaritatis?
> 
> cos this scorp here looks different with mine gracillis, mnine seems to have lighter color legs!


C. gracilis is supposed to have many different color variations. I have two adults that are a dark brown (as opposed to the one in the pics that looks closer to black) with dark red legs, I also have some slings from a different bloodline that have orange/red "arms", I'm hoping the two that this feature is most prominent in turn out to be opposite genders .


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## Raan_Jodus (May 2, 2007)

looks like you have a female C. Gracilis there.  Like most/all Centruroides they are dimorphic in their tail segments.  The segments of a males tail make them look extra long, while females have shorter, more normal looking tails.  In comparison to my pictures I'm pretty sure yours is a female.  Its usually not to tell when you have them side by side.



Also, C. Margaritatus Morenoi (male)











Typically a bit brighter in colouration than Gracilis, at least all the ones I've seen.

My Female Gracilis, bought as a Honduran Bark Scorpion, I have no idea of her true location.  (and male mating)






Here is the male I got of Mushito, colouring is very similar and shows the yellow legs.  I personally always thought this was a dimorphic trait amongst Gracilis, but I'm probably wrong.


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## kitty_b (May 2, 2007)

Raan_Jodus said:


> looks like you have a female C. Gracilis there.  Like most/all Centruroides they are dimorphic in their tail segments.  The segments of a males tail make them look extra long, while females have shorter, more normal looking tails.  In comparison to my pictures I'm pretty sure yours is a female.  Its usually not to tell when you have them side by side.


the tail segmentation was my guess too. that's how i tell my Centruroides exilicauda apart.  

i really like this girl. she didn't take to the "burrow" i made (and i really think she'd like a bit more space to roam), so there may be another rehousing in the near future. she also seems to love climbing, so i may take that into consideration. i may also look into getting a boyfriend.


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## H. cyaneus (May 2, 2007)

Scorpfanatic said:


> can some one enlighten me the difference withj gracillis and margaritatis?
> 
> cos this scorp here looks different with mine gracillis, mnine seems to have lighter color legs!


Hey Walton,

The main difference between gracilis and margariatis is the denticle rows on the fixed finger. If there is 7 it is gracilis, If 8 it is C margariatitis.

Mike


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## drapion (May 2, 2007)

she wont take to the burrow you made at all!!!! shes a climber.Thats where they get the term "Bark Scorpion" Give her a few pieces of vertical cork bark to climb on..kritter keepers aren't good for C.gracilis either you need some thing that will retain humidity between 60-80% with temps between 78-86F

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Scorpfanatic (May 2, 2007)

ah thanks guys, now a better picture is painted, thansk h.cyaneus


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## kitty_b (May 2, 2007)

drapion said:


> she wont take to the burrow you made at all!!!! shes a climber.Thats where they get the term "Bark Scorpion" Give her a few pieces of vertical cork bark to climb on..kritter keepers aren't good for C.gracilis either you need some thing that will retain humidity between 60-80% with temps between 78-86F


like i said, i'm working on short notice. she'll have appropriate housing by this weekend. (she came in a clear deli display cup with pine shavings and sat there for 2 days before i could get her.  )


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## John Bokma (May 3, 2007)

You're sure the scorpion is an adult? If so I would say female, but "she" doesn't look adult to me (but I am not an expert although I keep some C. gracilis).

As for how to keep them, I have found C. gracilis in quite dry places (open grasslands, under stones) and very wet places (mango groves). In my opinion they can handle quite a lot of different habitats (in Mexico that is) very well. I keep them on fine, dark sand or sand with organic material mixed. As for hiding: they hide under river stones, lava rock, etc. Haven't found them under pieces of wood yet, but in two set ups I use pieces of wood.

Make sure they have a water source, and now and then spray the enclosure. Often when I do the latter I see the scorpion take a "bath" afterwards (it grooms itself with liquids)

BTW: the lowest temperature I've had in the house was around 11 C and the scorpions don't seem to have a problem with that. Note however that it only has been that low for a few days, then the temperature goes up to around 16C.

IMO easy to keep species, a bit more skittish and secretive compared to the C. flavopictus flavopictus I keep (again in my experience).

Was able to let two mate last week (will post pictures soon).


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## H. cyaneus (May 3, 2007)

Hey John,

It sounds like you're saying you've caught C. gracilis in Mexico? They aren't native to Mexico, so maybe you are talking about a different species?

Mike


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## John Bokma (May 3, 2007)

Nope, C. gracilis. They seem to have been introduced into Mexico (well, that's what I read somewhere) and from what I've seen they are very successful, they can be found in several states. Some time ago I went to Chiapas, found one scorpion, and I have the feeling it's also C. gracilis (not 100% sure though).


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## John Bokma (May 5, 2007)

I am quite sure that this one is as well C. gracilis:
http://johnbokma.com/mexit/2007/05/04/scorpion-enclosure-centruroides-species.html

More photos:
http://johnbokma.com/mexit/2007/05/04/photos-scorpion-chiapas-mexico.html


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## xVOWx (May 5, 2007)

If that is a C.gracilis, though it may be adaptable to a drier climate, it would do best in a tropical/arboreal setup.


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## John Bokma (May 5, 2007)

The set up I use comes as close to the micro habitat I found it in as possible. As I wrote a bit more up, C. gracilis can be found under boulders in grasslands and wet mango groves and about everything between, like for example at the border between a pine forest and a grassland under lava rocks, and even inside the forest under lava rocks.


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## H. cyaneus (May 5, 2007)

John if you could count the dectinal teeth on the fixed finger, I am interested in seeing if it actually a C. gracilis, or a different species.

Mike


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## skinheaddave (May 5, 2007)

John Bokma said:


> Nope, C. gracilis. They seem to have been introduced into Mexico (well, that's what I read somewhere)


C.gracilis ranges through a great deal of Mexico and also into Central and South America.  Its range is far from contiguous, but it would be folly to assume that the species somehow started in Florida and that the rest of its range is recent introductions.  Given the distribution, it is far more probable that the gaps represent die-offs rather than jumps.

Cheers,
Dave


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## H. cyaneus (May 5, 2007)

Thanks Dave, I was just going by Eric origins for Mexico and I didn't see gracilis, maybe I over looked it..

Mike


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## John Bokma (May 5, 2007)

H. cyaneus said:


> John if you could count the dectinal teeth on the fixed finger, I am interested in seeing if it actually a C. gracilis, or a different species.
> 
> Mike


I'll try to do so today. My camera couldn't get a good picture yesterday but I try to scan a finger of a molt I have. C. gracilis for this specimen is a guess, but its on the list I have for Chiapas. Would be nice if it's a different species though.

Oh, and a correction: I have found C. gracilis under a log, once. (Couldn't edit the message anymore).


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## John Bokma (May 5, 2007)

skinheaddave said:


> Given the distribution, it is far more probable that the gaps represent die-offs rather than jumps.


That wouldn't amaze me. 

edit: I read Dave's reply wrong, I somehow read it as he wrote that the species indeed got introduced in Mexico, which was my bad, and hence the reply:

Is there any data on when the introduction started? I mean is this just recently (about 300 years ago)? I have the feeling that the C. gracilis is taking over habitat of other scorpions, also because it's quite large and probably preys easily on native ones (for example it shares its habitat with Diplocentrus bereai), and to me it looks like a hardy and very adaptable scorpion.


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## John Bokma (May 5, 2007)

Ok, I scanned parts of an exuvia and counted:






Edit:






I count 23 L, 24 R

The life history of Centruroides gracilis states:


> nine rows on the fixed finger and nine rows plus a short apical "sub-row" on the movable finger


However, I recall to have read ( http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=92187&highlight=fixed+finger+gracilis ) on this board that if it's 7 on the fixed finger it's gracilis, if it's 8 it's margaritatus.


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## EAD063 (May 5, 2007)

John Bokma said:


> That wouldn't amaze me.
> 
> Is there any data on when the introduction started? I mean is this just recently (about 300 years ago)? I have the feeling that the C. gracilis is taking over habitat of other scorpions, also because it's quite large and probably preys easily on native ones (for example it shares its habitat with Diplocentrus bereai), and to me it looks like a hardy and very adaptable scorpion.


I would assume it's a long time as it is rumored the affects of the CA gracilis are more potent than that of the US native which would imply some sort of evolutionary adaption.


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## John Bokma (May 5, 2007)

Can't that be habitat related? (Average temperature, diet, etc.)?


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## skinheaddave (May 5, 2007)

My point was that C.gracilis was not "introduced" to Mexico in the way we generally use those terms.  They are native there, as they are native to other points in their range -- where they originated and how they expanded their territory is something we do not know.  The only populations we know to be introduced are those in Africa etc.

Cheers,
Dave


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## John Bokma (May 5, 2007)

The scorpion files page on C. gracilis gives this list ( http://www.ub.ntnu.no/scorpion-files/c_gracilis.php ):



> Africa (Cameroon (introduced), Gabon (introduced)), (Europa (Canary
> Islands (introduced)), North America (Mexico, USA (introduced)), Central America &  Caribbean (Antilles, Cuba (introduced), Guatemala, Honduras, Martinique (introduced) Nicaragua, Panama (introduced), Venezuela (introduced)) and South America (Colombia (introduced), Ecuador, Venezuela).


No idea where I read that they were introduced in Mexico though, since above information suggests (to me that is) that they are native to Mexico, and introduced to the USA.

I recalled it vice versa.

Thanks Dave, have to check my site if I didn't write that it got introduced in Mexico and fix it.

And aargh, just noticed that I read your reply wrong the first time, apologies.


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## brandontmyers (May 5, 2007)

John Bokma said:


> The scorpion files page on C. gracilis gives this list ( http://www.ub.ntnu.no/scorpion-files/c_gracilis.php ):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


sorry to get off topic, but what are you using for your scorps? I saw the pics, what exactly is it? it looks like it would make everything easier to house them in besides tupperware..


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## marcelo_987 (May 5, 2007)

Wow I'm late in a reply, but Kitty your C. gracilis is not full grown. The mesosoma of a full grown C. gracilis is about an inch and a half. From the pic it appears to only be an inch but........if the body doesn't change after a molt than it's a "she". If the body is skinny and the tail get longer than it's a male.


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## John Bokma (May 5, 2007)

Lokal said:


> sorry to get off topic, but what are you using for your scorps? I saw the pics, what exactly is it? it looks like it would make everything easier to house them in besides tupperware..


They were sold as "clip boxes" by Ahued in Xalapa (Mexico). Sadly they no longer sell them. A package had 4 different sizes and except for the easy scratching they are fantastic. They had two kind of packages: the box you saw in the photo ("horizontal") and boxes that are more higher then wide ("vertical").
They don't sell them anymore, and I have no idea if they can be bought in other countries. When closed the lid is held excellent in place by the black "locks" (if that's the right word).


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## kitty_b (May 5, 2007)

marcelo_987 said:


> Wow I'm late in a reply, but Kitty your C. gracilis is not full grown. The mesosoma of a full grown C. gracilis is about an inch and a half. From the pic it appears to only be an inch but........if the body doesn't change after a molt than it's a "she". If the body is skinny and the tail get longer than it's a male.


yeah, i figured out that s/he isn't full grown. 

gonna move her to a new cage on monday. she's currently hanging upside down from her KK (only 1-2" off the ground). crazy thing.


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## kitty_b (May 11, 2007)

i just found out that this girl had a bunch of babies back in january.  

he said there's a chance she may have another bunch o' babies. guess i'd better keep my eyes open.


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