# Latrodectus mactans (Southern Black Widow) and Latrodectus geometricus (Brown Widow)



## davisfam (Sep 9, 2010)

We found these pretty ladies hanging out on the brick wall in our yard last night. The Brown Widow is a FATTY!! 

*Latrodectus mactans (Southern Black Widow)*

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i11/kelseyjane10/Creatures135.jpg

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i11/kelseyjane10/Creatures134.jpg

*Latrodectus geometricus (Brown Widow)*

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i11/kelseyjane10/Creatures132.jpg

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i11/kelseyjane10/Creatures87.jpg


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## satanslilhelper (Sep 9, 2010)

That 1st pic of the "mactans" looks like the widow has some color on its back. Is that just the lighting or does it have some orange spots on its abdomen? If so then it looks like a L. variolus which is the Northern widow.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.


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## davisfam (Sep 9, 2010)

Here is a better picture (below).. Yes, she has markings on her back but we believe this is because she is a juviie. "From what I have read L.mactans generally has the hourglass as one whole marking while L.hesperus generally has it seperated into two triangles as in my pics." (Quote from an Arachnoboard Administrator)

The thread where we found most of our information is at the top of the page under "True Spiders and Other Arachnids"..

At first, we also thought she was a Northern Black Widow but after doing research, it seems as if she is a L. mactan.. we are not familiar with this species esp. in Florida because we're from Illinois so we might be wrong.. who knows! I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong with the ID.

Picture; http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i11/kelseyjane10/Creatures129.jpg


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## satanslilhelper (Sep 9, 2010)

davisfam said:


> Here is a better picture (below).. Yes, she has markings on her back but we believe this is because she is a juviie. "From what I have read L.mactans generally has the hourglass as one whole marking while L.hesperus generally has it seperated into two triangles as in my pics." (Quote from an Arachnoboard Administrator)
> 
> The thread where we found most of our information is at the top of the page under "True Spiders and Other Arachnids"..
> 
> ...


I found a bunch of these at work here in B'ham, AL and everyone ID'ed them as L. variolus.


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## satanslilhelper (Sep 9, 2010)

I just checked on my recently molted girl and it has a different pattern than the previous pic. So, who knows you might be right.:? I guess I'll know after another molt for sure. Maybe they do change. I'll be happy either way. I love these little guys.


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## cacoseraph (Sep 9, 2010)

i see tons of full glass heserpus


what is the size on the non brown one?  she still has leg striping so i am guessing pretty little?


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## Widowman10 (Sep 9, 2010)

you are correct OP. it is a mactans. 

beautiful widows!!


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## Widowman10 (Sep 10, 2010)

satanslilhelper said:


> That 1st pic of the "mactans" looks like the widow has some color on its back. Is that just the lighting or does it have some orange spots on its abdomen? If so then it looks like a L. variolus which is the Northern widow.
> Please correct me if I'm wrong.


the southeastern macs tend to have a lot more color than their darker relatives in other places. but macs most certainly have crazy color like the one in the pics. 



satanslilhelper said:


> I just checked on my recently molted girl and it has a different pattern than the previous pic. So, who knows you might be right.:? I guess I'll know after another molt for sure. Maybe they do change. I'll be happy either way. I love these little guys.


the closer she gets to maturity, the more you'll be able to tell. 



cacoseraph said:


> i see tons of full glass heserpus
> what is the size on the non brown one?  she still has leg striping so i am guessing pretty little?


with macs, yes. but variolus will have annuli visible on the legs up until almost the ultimate molt. it's weird seeing a normally full-size widow with faint leg striping. but then she molts to the ultimate stage and they are gone. 

hmm, i had more thoughts but i can't remember what i was going to ramble on about. i'll add later if needed.



edit: SLH, do you have a ventral shot of that girl?


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## Venom (Sep 10, 2010)

Definitely a _mactans_. _Hesperus _tends to have a maroon-ish tint to the abdomen, and both _variolus _and _hesperus _have different hourglasses than the mactans. 

There are no _hesperus _or _variolus _in central Florida anyway, as _variolus _only makes it into the northern fringe of Florida.


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## davisfam (Sep 10, 2010)

Wowzaa, these beauties sure are confusing to ID esp. when the female's markings change with age. The L. mactan pictured in this thread is very small in size.. MAYBE the size of a dime (including leg span).

Widowman10; what species of these spidiies are in the state of Florida? As far as the internet tells me; Latrodectus bishopi, Latrodectus geometricus, Latrodectus mactans, and Latrodectus variolus.. is this correct?? is that ALL the widow species? Spill that brain of yours mistaa.. and thanks, we plan on keeping them for a few months to watch and learn as much as possible about this beautiful species! =)

THANKS EVERYONE.. we appreciate all the thoughts and help with making sure this was a correct ID for both spiders!


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## davisfam (Sep 10, 2010)

Venom said:


> Definitely a _mactans_. _Hesperus _tends to have a maroon-ish tint to the abdomen, and both _variolus _and _hesperus _have different hourglasses than the mactans.
> 
> There are no _hesperus _or _variolus _in central Florida anyway, as _variolus _only makes it into the northern fringe of Florida.


Ahh, thank you for posting this because I didn't think the L. hesperus was in my area either but like I said before, we are new to this species and Florida! What pretty little ladies, none the less.


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## Widowman10 (Sep 10, 2010)

yep, FL has those 4 species. the size was helpful too, thanks for including it 

hey, if you want, check this out, got some info:
http://sites.google.com/site/widowman10/


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## davisfam (Sep 10, 2010)

Widowman10 said:


> yep, FL has those 4 species. the size was helpful too, thanks for including it
> 
> hey, if you want, check this out, got some info:
> http://sites.google.com/site/widowman10/


No problem, I'll post more pictures after each molt and I'm sure we'll have tons of questions for you down the road, lol. We appreciate all the helpful information including the website, thanks again! :worship:


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## Widowman10 (Sep 10, 2010)

please do post pics


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## satanslilhelper (Sep 11, 2010)

Here are the pics you requested widowman.


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## Widowman10 (Sep 11, 2010)

thanks! about what size is she? i would venture to say based on those pictures that you have a mactans.


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## satanslilhelper (Sep 11, 2010)

She's a scrunched up 3/4 in.. So, I would say she's probably closer to an inch to an inch and 1/4. She now has a red band on her abdomen compared to the funky coloration she had before she molted. I'm excited that this is a mactans.


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## davisfam (Sep 11, 2010)

satanslilhelper said:


> She's a scrunched up 3/4 in.. So, I would say she's probably closer to an inch to an inch and 1/4. She now has a red band on her abdomen compared to the funky coloration she had before she molted. I'm excited that this is a mactans.


Just curious; what makes the L. mactans so neat?? Is there something about them that is different than the other species?? I think the one we have is just beautiful but I didn't know if they were rare or had certain special markings.. ? (besides the hour glass, of course!)


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## satanslilhelper (Sep 11, 2010)

For me it's the fact that I've lived in Alabama all of my 29 years and I've never found one on my own until now. I saw one at the Natural History Museum when I was in elementary school. My boss at work even brought me one earlier this summer, but he crushed some of its legs and it died later that night. 

I must say that until this last spring I've never actively pursued finding one. After raising T's for several years now I wanted to branch out and find one. I think they have an elegant beauty to them.


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## davisfam (Sep 12, 2010)

*L. mactans molted tonight!! =)*

The little gal molted tonight and has grown in size, of course. Also, her markings on her back have changed a bit. She is now around the size of a nickle, if not a little bigger; including leg span. Here is a couple pictures we took of her tonight. Enjoy!!


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## satanslilhelper (Sep 12, 2010)

My girl didn't do that?!?! I'm guessing the coloring has something to do with what size they grow to. Mine has a red stripe at this point. Before the molt it had orange, white and black circles.


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## Widowman10 (Sep 12, 2010)

markings are so HIGHLY variable it's not even funny. i could go out and find 20 differently marked variolus (or others) in the same locale.


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## davisfam (Sep 27, 2010)

*New Pictures (L. mactan POST-molt)*

Our female L. mactan has molted once again and I thought we would share some pictures along with more recent pictures of the L. geometricus.. Enjoy!


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## Kathy (Oct 9, 2011)

I am looking at all the beautiful pictures of the black widows, and thinking to myself - why am I so afraid of them?  I have my tarantulas, I  have an h.mac, they don't scare me.  Yet living in Phoenix we have black widows around all the time and if I see one I freak out.  Can't figure it out.  It is a spider, after all.  I love wolf spiders.....what is it about a black widow......I wish I could get over this fear of them.  Off topic, but I wanted to say I loved the pictures and the different colorings.


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## AmysAnimals (Oct 9, 2011)

Kathy said:


> I am looking at all the beautiful pictures of the black widows, and thinking to myself - why am I so afraid of them?  I have my tarantulas, I  have an h.mac, they don't scare me.  Yet living in Phoenix we have black widows around all the time and if I see one I freak out.  Can't figure it out.  It is a spider, after all.  I love wolf spiders.....what is it about a black widow......I wish I could get over this fear of them.  Off topic, but I wanted to say I loved the pictures and the different colorings.


I know what you mean.  I love all other spiders, except black widows.  They scare the living you know what out of me!  Seeing them through this thread gives a total different respect for them though.  I would love to keep one and observe it but I just can't see myself catching one!  Too afraid.  lol


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