# Different "forms" of P.murinus



## Ceratogyrus (Dec 12, 2012)

Just thought I would post a pic of a DCF P.murinus and a DCF x NCF(Normal/orange) of P.murinus for comparison.
Does the cross look a bit like the tan colour form of murinus?

DCF:






DCF x NCF:


----------



## Theist 17 (Dec 13, 2012)

That's really interesting. Those wouldn't happen to be members of the same sac, would they?


----------



## Ceratogyrus (Dec 13, 2012)

Nope. 2 different sacs and parents.


----------



## Formerphobe (Dec 13, 2012)

Check out frame 1872.  I'd give one of my eye teeth for this color variant. 
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?182020-fartkowski-picture-thread/page125

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Theist 17 (Dec 13, 2012)

Formerphobe said:


> Check out frame 1872.  I'd give one of my eye teeth for this color variant.
> http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?182020-fartkowski-picture-thread/page125


Whoa. That's cool.


----------



## Ceratogyrus (Dec 13, 2012)

Wow, that is stunning!
Seen the pic before, but never knew where it came from.


----------



## jdl (Dec 13, 2012)

The cross does like the normal form of murinus, but it has a bit more of an orange tinge to it.  I have been looking for the normal variant of murinus.  What happened to all of them.  They were being bred pretty regularly in the nineties.


----------



## macbaffo (Dec 14, 2012)

thanks for the pics!
the DCF X NCF...that's a crossbreed? what body lenght has that T?

btw the DCF looks like a P. chordatus to me...maybe i'm mistaken by the pic but the pattern on the opistosoma seems like the chordatus' one...:?


----------



## Ceratogyrus (Dec 14, 2012)

Legspan on both are around 8cm.
The DCF is definitely murinus. Found in Zimbabwe. As slings they looked like any other murinus with the bright orange abdomen. As they got older, they lost the colorful abdomen.


----------



## Formerphobe (Dec 14, 2012)

None of my OBTs had a bright orange anything as slings.  They were pretty nondescript brownish-gray spiderlings and developed color with each successive molt.


----------



## macbaffo (Dec 14, 2012)

interesting...in the area where you found them you saw also the orange form?
do you think it's a croosbreed between dark and orange or it's totally another coloration?


----------



## Ceratogyrus (Dec 14, 2012)

macbaffo said:


> interesting...in the area where you found them you saw also the orange form?
> do you think it's a crossbreed between dark and orange or it's totally another coloration?


No, only the dark form. Adults and juvies were fully arboreal and slings either arboreal or burrowing.
I would have no reason to think that they would be crossbred considering they were in the wild away from pretty much all civilization.

---------- Post added 12-14-2012 at 04:20 PM ----------




Formerphobe said:


> None of my OBTs had a bright orange anything as slings.  They were pretty nondescript brownish-gray spiderlings and developed color with each successive molt.


That's strange.
I have raised maybe 50 murinus from various origins and all had definate orange/gold on their abdomens as slings.


----------



## macbaffo (Dec 14, 2012)

> Ceratogyrus
> 
> Quote Originally Posted by macbaffo View Post
> 
> ...


well you wrote DCF x NCF and i understood that it was a crossbreed of the 2 forms. Natural crossbreed. Not necessarily you need civilization to do that (and if it's possible the crossbreed of course). You need the two forms living near each other of course that's why i asked you that question. 
But i never looked into the P. murinus matter of color forms so i don't know if they actually are different species not breedable toghether or just color forms.

----
btw could the second picture be the UMV described in the site baboonspider.de?


----------



## Formerphobe (Dec 14, 2012)

> DCF x NCF and i understood that it was a crossbreed of the 2 forms


That was my understanding, too.



> I have raised maybe 50 murinus from various origins and all had definate orange/gold on their abdomens as slings.


I have limited experience.  I've only raised three, ranging from 0.5 to 1.0 inch at their respective acquisitions.  Each had faint glimmers of orange/gold if I looked at them in the right light, but noticeable color took awhile to kick in.  
MM, 6.0 inch DLS, darkened up some at maturing molt.





Immature male, ~4.0 inches DLS - picture doesn't do him justice.  He is a brilliant orange.





+/- mature female, ~5.0 inches.  Again, camera doesn't do her justice.  She is practically neon orange.






All captive bred, each are different ages from different breedings from different parts of the country (US), so I assume they are only distantly related.  I gave each the opportunity to be arboreal, semi, terrestrial, fossorial, or any combination.  The MM burrowed until ~1.25", then he went semi-arboreal until his maturing molt when he went back underground.  The other two were semi arboreal as slings, both are currently burrowed.

You report your darker color form:





> Adults and juvies were fully arboreal and slings either arboreal or burrowing.


Sounds like lifestyle and color form may have a connection.


----------



## freedumbdclxvi (Dec 14, 2012)

I would love to pick up some DCF murinus.  I just love this species, and I would like to get as many color forms as there are, but the DCF tops the list.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Ceratogyrus (Dec 14, 2012)

Think we are misunderstanding each other. 
The DCF is from Zimbabwe.
The DCF x NCF is a captive "cross". It was a cross from a Zim male and NCF female as far as I am aware. Were not bred by me, so not 100% sure. The NCF was not from Zim though, it was an import from Kenya I would assume.


----------



## macbaffo (Dec 14, 2012)

do you know if the guy who cross breeded DCFxNCF breeded again the slings? or do you know if those "crosses" are fertile?


----------



## Ceratogyrus (Dec 14, 2012)

The offspring should all be about this ones size, so doubt any have been bred.
They should be fertile as both parents were murinus.
Pretty sure that lots of brachycephalus in the USA are actually crosses between darlingi and brachycephalus and they still breed, but that is an entirely different thread.


----------



## syndicate (Dec 14, 2012)

Ceratogyrus said:


> DCF:
> 
> 
> 
> ...

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Jquack530 (Dec 14, 2012)

freedumbdclxvi said:


> I would love to pick up some DCF murinus.  I just love this species, and I would like to get as many color forms as there are, but the DCF tops the list.


 I agree! I would love to have the DCF. I'm aware that there are several color forms, but all I've ever seen offered is the RCF.


----------



## Ceratogyrus (Jul 30, 2013)

Here is another P.murinus, apparently DCF.

Reactions: Like 5


----------



## Ceratogyrus (Jan 6, 2014)

Some updated pics of the murinus 
Pics of the mature female:




Mature male

Reactions: Like 4


----------



## Nyarlathotep (Jan 6, 2014)

Oh god, never seen that DCF of murinus. Is that available in hobby? I really liked it!


----------



## Ceratogyrus (Jan 6, 2014)

Nyarlathotep said:


> Oh god, never seen that DCF of murinus. Is that available in hobby? I really liked it!


Don't think they are common in the hobby. See them every now and again on forums, but not very common.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Poec54 (Jan 6, 2014)

Ceratogyrus said:


> Don't think they are common in the hobby. See them every now and again on forums, but not very common.


Are the DCF as fiesty and fast as the RCF?


----------



## Ceratogyrus (Jan 6, 2014)

Poec54 said:


> Are the DCF as fiesty and fast as the RCF?


Yes, same attitude (Although they were quite chilled for the photo shoot).
They web the same way as my usual RCF. If you had to look at the RCF and these in black and white, all habits, webbing, etc are identical.


----------



## viper69 (Jan 6, 2014)

What is Rcf and Dcf? Nice pics


----------



## z32upgrader (Jan 6, 2014)

viper69 said:


> What is Rcf and Dcf? Nice pics


Red Color Form and Dark Color Form

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## viper69 (Jan 6, 2014)

And I thought they were only orange. No idea there were variants, interesting. I wonder if there is any difference in the native environment to select for 1 color over the other?


----------



## Ceratogyrus (Jan 6, 2014)

viper69 said:


> And I thought they were only orange. No idea there were variants, interesting. I wonder if there is any difference in the native environment to select for 1 color over the other?


Don't think the different colours are found together in the wild.
From what I have seen, the orange ones are from East Africa (Kenya, Tanzania,etc), while the darker ones are more South, down to Zimbabwe.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## viper69 (Jan 7, 2014)

Ceratogyrus said:


> Don't think the different colours are found together in the wild.
> From what I have seen, the orange ones are from East Africa (Kenya, Tanzania,etc), while the darker ones are more South, down to Zimbabwe.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD



Thanks a lot Cerato..your information is always appreciated. I really had no idea there was another color form, how cool!


----------



## Ceratogyrus (Jan 7, 2014)

viper69 said:


> Thanks a lot Cerato..your information is always appreciated. I really had no idea there was another color form, how cool!


No problem.


----------



## ironmonkey78 (Jan 7, 2014)

there was a very similar conversation on the BTS board.  someone posted this link

http://www.baboonspiders.de/html_en/genera_pterinochilus.html#farbvarianten_murinus

it shows distribution of pterinochilus


----------



## Ceratogyrus (Jan 7, 2014)

That list is a little outdated though. Some of those species have been synonymized.


----------



## Ceratogyrus (Feb 1, 2014)

Here is a female P.murinus. She is the result of a breeding of a RCF female and DCF male.
Looks like TCF to me?

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## freedumbdclxvi (Feb 1, 2014)

Good lord she is stunning!


----------



## McGuiverstein (Feb 1, 2014)

That gold/tan color is amazing..


----------



## Ceratogyrus (Feb 1, 2014)

She is quite pretty. Will try get some pics of the MM sometime. Also a DCF x RCF...


----------



## BobGrill (Feb 1, 2014)

I like the RCF the most.

Sent from my LG-P999 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Tongue Flicker (Feb 1, 2014)

Up until last week, i wasn't aware that obt had colors like these hehe..

Great pics!


----------



## McGuiverstein (Feb 1, 2014)

Just got a chance to read the rest of the thread, and the DCF in frame #21 is absolutely drop dead gorgeous.... I am seriously considering swimming to SA to break into your house for that one. Where should I leave the money to pay for the broken window?


----------



## Ceratogyrus (Feb 2, 2014)

In the spider room is fine.


----------



## freedumbdclxvi (Feb 2, 2014)

Careful.  I hear cerato keeps an army of black mambas in his spider room to protect his murinus.


----------



## Ceratogyrus (Feb 2, 2014)

freedumbdclxvi said:


> Careful.  I hear cerato keeps an army of black mambas in his spider room to protect his murinus.


I have nicer spiders than that to protect.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Ceratogyrus (Nov 24, 2014)

Updated pic of my freshly moulted P.murinus

Reactions: Like 6


----------



## Poec54 (Nov 24, 2014)

Ceratogyrus said:


> Updated pic of my freshly moulted P. murinus


What a pretty spider.  I wish we had that color form.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Ceratogyrus (Nov 24, 2014)

Thanks. Absolutely love these.


----------



## cold blood (Nov 24, 2014)

Poec54 said:


> What a pretty spider.  I wish we had that color form.


+1  I'd love to have a couple of those, really beautiful.


----------



## Poec54 (Nov 24, 2014)

I bet they're in Europe.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## cold blood (Nov 24, 2014)

Poec54 said:


> I bet they're in Europe.


Those hoarders!

If they are, there's no reason they couldn't see our shores again, especially considering how easy they are to breed.   I'd certainly be interested to know what their numbers are currently in the European hobby, I don't ever hear much if any talk of them or ever see pics of them.   It was really nice to see Ceratogyrus post that picture today. :wink:


----------



## Ultum4Spiderz (Nov 24, 2014)

cold blood said:


> Those hoarders!
> 
> If they are, there's no reason they couldn't see our shores again, especially considering how easy they are to breed.   I'd certainly be interested to know what their numbers are currently in the European hobby, I don't ever hear much if any talk of them or ever see pics of them.   It was really nice to see Ceratogyrus post that picture today. :wink:


Yeah black & white color form I would love, Look like a OW a dwarft A genic or N cromatus MM color.


----------



## Poec54 (Nov 24, 2014)

cold blood said:


> there's no reason they couldn't see our shores again, especially considering how easy they are to breed.


There are a few dealers who import from Europe, like Paul Becker and Ken the Bug Guy.  Tell them you want other P murinus color forms.  They should be pretty affordable.  Let them see there's a demand.  It used to be the orange form was scarce and more expensive; it wasn't even known to be P murinus back then, just called 'Usambara.'  People wanted the orange one and stopped breeding the other color forms in this country.  We need to get the other ones back here.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Ultum4Spiderz (Nov 24, 2014)

Poec54 said:


> There are a few dealers who import from Europe, like Paul Becker and Ken the Bug Guy.  Tell them you want other P murinus color forms.  They should be pretty affordable.  Let them see there's a demand.  It used to be the orange form was scarce and more expensive; it wasn't even known to be P murinus back then, just called 'Usambara.'  People wanted the orange one and stopped breeding the other color forms in this country.  We need to get the other ones back here.


good idea. YOu do have way more breeding expereince than me but OBT breed well. I could prob pull it off well , unlmited supply of dubia 5k+, in your T room you could have endless roaches 10's of thousand discoids. Crickets work well though they are king of feeders, good choice~! I fed dubia for only 2 yr.
HIgh heat = thousands of roaches remember that. Feed off only only crickets til discoids get out of control.````` I never had the monetary funding to do much .


----------



## cold blood (Nov 24, 2014)

Poec54 said:


> It used to be the orange form was scarce and more expensive; it wasn't even known to be P murinus back then, just called 'Usambara.'  People wanted the orange one and stopped breeding the other color forms in this country.  We need to get the other ones back here.


Yeah I recall those days...reading about the usumbara orange, back in the day the fact that it was actually a legit P. murinus was still up for debate.  Now its the only one most know exist...odd how much can change in basically a decade (ish).


----------



## Ultum4Spiderz (Nov 25, 2014)

cold blood said:


> Yeah I recall those days...reading about the usumbara orange, back in the day the fact that it was actually a legit P. murinus was still up for debate.  Now its the only one most know exist...odd how much can change in basically a decade (ish).


The common species when I started out are rare, to non-existant  a lot can change in 10- 5 years. I kept Ts for  12 years but 1st two years were only rip off pet store species  A avic was way to hard for me back then , they told me to keep it dry with no humidity.

let this be a warning to anyone who trusts a pet shop.


----------



## cold blood (Nov 25, 2014)

Ultum4Spiderz said:


> A avic was way to hard for me back then , they told me to keep it dry with no humidity.


That's actually exactly how I keep avics.  Just a water bowl and good cross ventilation, otherwise everything is kept dry...that cross ventilation is far more critical than is higher humidity levels.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Ultum4Spiderz (Nov 25, 2014)

cold blood said:


> That's actually exactly how I keep avics.  Just a water bowl and good cross ventilation, otherwise everything is kept dry...that cross ventilation is far more critical than is higher humidity levels.


Yes pet store suggested a huge 10gal tank which I took lid off and DIy Plexiglas lid on now for humidity. I used it for a 2-3" A avic they also told me to use a sponge did that kill the T?

I would never keep a T like this I guess we learn from mistakes even if someone else tought us to fail. I also like wolf spiders, just I never keep any anymore, short life span.


----------



## pyro fiend (Nov 25, 2014)

Ceratogyrus said:


> Updated pic of my freshly moulted P.murinus


Oh god i aint seen one of these in years.. dang.. now i feel i stalked around the forum too long b4 joining..

I personally dont like the orange... now this.. id totally keep maybe even community tank it is possible xD


----------



## dactylus (Nov 26, 2014)

I want a small group of the "dark form" P. murinus...

:biggrin:


----------

