# Who WOULD WIN THEN PART DEU!!



## FortCooper1982 (May 12, 2006)

Right being a scorpion guy i've finally brought a spider, a Blondi infact! So Emperor or Blondi!!!! what ya reckon!?


----------



## Murziukas (May 12, 2006)

"Who would win"+"Imerator" Sweet. I have the question for part 3: smoking influence to outerspace.


----------



## FortCooper1982 (May 12, 2006)

in a fight tho? Blondi are pretty angry i hear!


----------



## Tleilaxu (May 12, 2006)

You'd better not plan on fighting these.   Blondi would take it out. P. imperitor is just too docile and slow.


----------



## FortCooper1982 (May 12, 2006)

excuse me!!!! i spend alot of money to keep these cool critters, and beside's i've had my emperors for years, there part of the family, catch my drift!!


----------



## Tleilaxu (May 12, 2006)

FortCooper1982 said:
			
		

> excuse me!!!! i spend alot of money to keep these cool critters, and beside's i've had my emperors for years, there part of the family, catch my drift!!



I have heard many people do such stupid things. The way you asked the question set off alarm bells in my head. Sorry.


----------



## FortCooper1982 (May 12, 2006)

u need not panic, i love my pets and all my emps get to see is crix and locusts, just emps are king of scorps! and Blondi a big king of spiders! now i've never seen a full size blondi!! could they take emps??????


----------



## Ryan C. (May 12, 2006)

H. swammerdammi is the king of scorps  


Back on topic, blondi's can get around 10" and emps around 7" and big blondi's have like 1" fangs. I would probably bet on the blondi if something like that would ever happen.


----------



## Spike (May 12, 2006)

I think it would be a draw really one stings the other bites.  One gets eaten the other dies of the sting or bleeds to death from a cruched leg or somthing.  Just my thoughts....


----------



## tarsier (May 12, 2006)

my money would be on the blondi


----------



## Alakdan (May 12, 2006)

My thoughts:

blondi
Advantage
-speed
-aggressiveness
-1" fangs

disadvantage
-needs to get close to strike
-soft body

scorp
Advantage
-hard shell
-pedipalps and telson (most likely a potent venom for some other species)

disadvantage
-slow
-inability to pounce on opponent, more like a "counter puncher"

Two possible results both ending in a draw.

1. blondi kills the emp, but dies slowly due to injuries.
2. both assumes their respective threat display, realizes the risk and walks   away


----------



## G. Carnell (May 12, 2006)

Alakdan said:
			
		

> My thoughts:
> 2. both assumes their respective threat display, realizes the risk and walks   away



i agree

though i disagree on the point about emps being slow, and ive been keeping them for ~7 years or so.  Once you get an angry specimen, you will understand what being hated is like


----------



## Scorpfanatic (May 12, 2006)

angry emps? i have 3


----------



## sweetmisery (May 12, 2006)

How does one let out their full fury?


----------



## FortCooper1982 (May 12, 2006)

I had a angry emp to once, and i mean angry, couldn't imagine that guy going down without taking big blondi with it!


----------



## canadianscorp (May 12, 2006)

i dont know about anyone else, but i agree with carnell.   when an emp is really set off they are lightening quick!  i would put all my money on the emp , and heres why:  it would be very hard for the blondi to puncture the scorp with its fangs through the exo,   the scorp would most deffinately chop any limb clear off that came near him , resulting in death.  plus have you ever looked at the deffensive stance put on by these scorps when they are pissed??  I would heve a hard time killing it if i tried 

just my opinion,

cheers, steve


----------



## Ewok (May 12, 2006)

I think they would both end up dead too,  would the scorpion venom paralyze faster than the blondi's venom though?


----------



## Fluid Filter (May 12, 2006)

I think a T would have a hard time getting past an emp's claws once it's in a defensive posture. It would probably get sliced up like a celery stalk on food network. But, if the blondi managed to ambush the emp, it would be game over pretty quick.


----------



## FortCooper1982 (May 12, 2006)

These blondi get huge tho, dont they get the size of a dinner plate?


----------



## fusion121 (May 12, 2006)

As loathe as I am to take part in a scorpion v tarantula thread , its still an interesting question. 

Assuming a large P. imperator and a T. blondi, which are both very big arthropods, I’d give it to the emperor every time. It has 3 offensive bits, 2 extremely strong pedipalps (I mean really strong) and its metasoma, combined with the fact that the offensive reach of these it quite substantial, compared to T. blondi’s fangs which must be directly above the scorpion to be useful, the scorpion sting however can strike in a large arc around the scorpion. The scorpion also has considerable protection from is exoskeleton. I wouldn’t have thought speed was a major issue, a spider and scorpion are about as fast as each other, especially in offensive mode as George said.

I'd be interested to see a study of to what extent scorpions and tarantulas predate each other in the wild.


----------



## PA7R1CK (May 12, 2006)

RyanC said:
			
		

> H. swammerdammi is the king of scorps
> 
> 
> Back on topic, blondi's can get around 10" and emps around 7" and big blondi's have like 1" fangs. I would probably bet on the blondi if something like that would ever happen.


I agree. Blondi's are massive and they could overpower an emp with little trouble. I would place my money on the blondi.


----------



## Tleilaxu (May 12, 2006)

The blondi also has the added advantage that if its legs get injured and bleed it can just bite them off to stop the bleeding because they will regrow. A scorpion does not have this option. Also the bite force of a T blondi is something to behold. Every hear their fangs crunching the skull of an adult mouse?


----------



## fscorpion (May 12, 2006)

Why don'tyou people just try it and put an end to those silly discussions, I see one every few months...
:wall: :wall: :wall:


----------



## Tleilaxu (May 12, 2006)

fscorpion said:
			
		

> Why don'tyou people just try it and put an end to those silly discussions, I see one every few months...
> :wall: :wall: :wall:


Because its a waste of two supreme animals, that are guests under our care, and deserve the best. Remember they did not choose to be our pets.


----------



## cashewman1 (May 12, 2006)

Im thinking P imperator for the win for sure. Let me see here, While i dont keep Tarantulas im thinking that the Armor ability here would be something like a soft shell taco versus an armored tank. Once in the defensive posture ive no doubt my full grown Imperator would snip the legs right out from under that silly ol' tarantula. And the stings it could deliver from a very far distance would also give it a huge advantage. Dont doubt an emperors speed, ive seen them zip across a tank in more or less a second. Im not sure speed is a large factor in this either. 

So my vote is for emperor


----------



## ShadowBlade (May 12, 2006)

There are too many variables to determine what would happen. 
If they could encounter each other in the wild, (I know, they can't) and the scorp was under it's "favorite" hiding place, and the tarantula walked past. (assuming night ofcourse) the tarantula stumbles near the scorp, IF the scorp wanted to, and was in fast condition, it would grap the T's leg with it's palps, and (hopefully) ram it's stinger into the Tarantula's face. I don't know how fast the venom would have effect, but T's have poor eyesight, (especially at night), and the scorp can see quite efficiently. In which case, I would assume the scorp would win.

If they both encountered each other for some reason in the open, in daylight, (say some curious stupid people put them in a tank, two things could happen, depending on temperament of the emp. One, the Blondi threat displays, the scorp moves in and stings, (Not likely), and again, depending on effects of scorp venom on T's, the Blondi my or my not be able to completely retaliate. OR... the T' threat displays, and is more serious about it, the scorp moves in, probably grabs on of the legs, the T easily overpowers the emp and bites it. The fangs would practically impale the emp, but the emp would inturn, continually jab the stiner into the T's face, eventually ending in the end of both critters.

I think this would be an unfair match. The emp I believe would either win, or they both die. Almost no matter where the T bites, the scorp can still sting, which they would probably both die.


----------



## thesupermonkey (May 12, 2006)

I've never kept Blondi's but from what I've seen from my emps I'd say they Blondi would be out gunned.  No one has mentioned the chelicercae.  I don't know if it's common or just my emps but I've seen mine use their mouth & palps to grip onto aggressive prey.  A well placed hit from the telson normally kills a mouse in 10-20 seconds, but the venom effects can be seen with a few seconds... involuntary muscle spasm, poor motor coordination and shallow breathing.  Mine have no problem dealing with the mice's razor sharp teeth w/out taking a scratch.  

However, given the size the Blondi's are capable of reaching, it gives them a decent shot at flipping the scorp and if that happens the scorp wouldn't have a chance.


----------



## Stylopidae (May 12, 2006)

Actually, lots of people have mentioned the claws.

OK, folks. I've read through this thread and you ALL have missed one VERY important thing.

The tank. True, the emp could ruin the blondi's stuff with it's chela, but if it gets backed up into a corner, all the blondi has to do is tower over it.

Now, assuming it's in the wild all the emp would do is find a nice, tall branch and clamber up. Although a blondi may be powerful, graceful it is not.

A blondi's legs can be used as chela. As many of you know, many tarantulas use their legs to sweep in prey from the front.

In all honesty, the blondi would most likely win due just to the sheer power. An emp may be big for a scorp, but compared to a blondi it's not really all that special.

My two cents. I've never kept either of them. I honestly think a Blondi VS. A scolopendra gigantea would be a more even match.


----------



## JSN (May 13, 2006)

the one I have now is angry for sure, its very strong too...


----------



## Tleilaxu (May 13, 2006)

scolopendra gigantea VS T blondi the pede would win that hands down. There speed cannot be matched.


----------



## G. Carnell (May 13, 2006)

Evil Cheshire said:
			
		

> The tank. True, the emp could ruin the blondi's stuff with it's chela, but if it gets backed up into a corner, all the blondi has to do is tower over it.



You might have forgotten how angry a scorp can get when its cornered, and just how muscular the tail is, as an example, you cant stop a scorp from uncurling its tail, its so damned strong

and for a 20cm long Forest Emperor, i doubt any spider would be able to tower over it, as Scorpions are designed for the height advantage in this situation (closer legs, etc)

here's a pic showing how important a Scorpionid tail can be, its of my old H.swammerdami male being aggressive soley with its tail


----------



## FortCooper1982 (May 13, 2006)

ohhh i,ve just watched a couple of vids of these pede's killing mice on youtube, well nasty, just cained the poor mouse right in the back causing major tissue damage, are these things highly venomus?


----------



## canadianscorp (May 13, 2006)

beautiful swammi carnell!!!

cheers, steve


----------



## Tleilaxu (May 13, 2006)

FortCooper1982 said:
			
		

> ohhh i,ve just watched a couple of vids of these pede's killing mice on youtube, well nasty, just cained the poor mouse right in the back causing major tissue damage, are these things highly venomus?


They wont kill you but your going to hurt like no tomarrow once bitten.


----------



## ShadowBlade (May 13, 2006)

Tleilaxu said:
			
		

> They wont kill you but your going to hurt like no tomarrow once bitten.


Um... bitten??:?  

I still think it's hard to make a decision unless all conditions are specified.

And why are people saying it would be hard to puncture scorps armor!! Have you seen a blondi's fangs?? Those things would go in at the top, and almost out the bottom if it wanted to!


----------



## cashewman1 (May 13, 2006)

To clarify scorps do not see well at night, in fact they dont see well every, they hunt with vibrations


----------



## Stylopidae (May 13, 2006)

G. Carnell said:
			
		

> You might have forgotten how angry a scorp can get when its cornered, and just how muscular the tail is, as an example, you cant stop a scorp from uncurling its tail, its so damned strong
> 
> and for a 20cm long Forest Emperor, i doubt any spider would be able to tower over it, as Scorpions are designed for the height advantage in this situation (closer legs, etc)
> 
> here's a pic showing how important a Scorpionid tail can be, its of my old H.swammerdami male being aggressive soley with its tail.


As I said, I've never kept either species.

However, is a scorpion tail strong enough to keep the spider from advancing? I think the spider could advance just close enough to sink it's fangs in, and it would thus be all over for the scorp.

As for the armor, I've read in the T forums (although I don't post there too much anymore) stories about Ts chewing through the metal mesh of a tank cover. Strength isn't an issue.

Ts also use their pedipalps as kind of an extra set of legs (I've witnessed this in lycosids, as well) so if the scorp grabbed the T by the palps, no real damage would occur and the T would throw them, leaving the scorp with two spider appendages that are unnatached to the body.

All the spider needs is a split second, and it's latched on despite the stinger in the back.

From here, if the scorp happens to be able to (and does) grab the 'waist' of the T, the fight is over in seconds.

What is 20CM in inches? Does this include the chela and the telson?

I'm dissecting the stats as I see them.

Although, a cent and a T...yeah, I'd bet on the centi, as well. It's bristling with weapons and tough as iron, to boot.

Think it ever happens in the wild?


----------



## Ryan C. (May 13, 2006)

20cm is just under 8" and the measurement is from chelicerae to telson.


----------



## Stylopidae (May 13, 2006)

How long from beginning of jaws to end of telson?


----------



## Ryan C. (May 13, 2006)

8" for a big emp.


----------



## Stylopidae (May 13, 2006)

Oh...the claws are the palps...right. Forgot the terminology.

I was thinking like 5 or six inches. This makes the match a little more even.


----------



## Ryan C. (May 13, 2006)

The savannah emps get around 6-7" and forest emps get around 8". 

The ones from the savannah are a lot more commonly imported.


I still think the T. blondi would win though, One bite and its pretty much straight through the emp. Even if the emp got a few legs off the blondi would still be plenty mobile to take the emp down.


----------



## Ewok (May 13, 2006)

I think though even if the blondi did gore the scorpion wit the fangs the scorpion would still have  enough time to nail the blonde with its tail.


----------



## maxident213 (May 14, 2006)

I would say this:  I think an Emp could take out virtually any T, but if there is a T that _could_ take down an Emp, it's probably the Blondi.  I think it would just be a matter of who got the advantage first.  

I've got a Haplopelma "Vietnam" about 6.5 inches who strikes like lightning and is no slouch in the strength department, but I still don't think he could take out one of my 5.5-6" Imperators.  

I do agree about the centipedes, a fair-sized Scolopendra is pretty much the  most finely-tuned invertebrate "killing machine" out there.  I have read somewhere that these pedes feed on Blondis in the wild as well.  I have no idea if that's true or just speculation.

I hope to get two _S. polymorpha_ and two _S. subspinses_ by the end of the summer.


----------



## Scorp guy (May 14, 2006)

might i ask why you felt the need to make this thread? just wondering.

blondi would win, no doubt in my mind. what IF the blondi was stung and it survived? my blondi takes mice down faster than you could blink. but then again, while in its mouth, depending on where it was grabbed (underbelly, telson, pinchers) i think would matter a lot.


----------



## P. Novak (May 14, 2006)

G. Carnell said:
			
		

> You might have forgotten how angry a scorp can get when its cornered, and just how muscular the tail is, as an example, you cant stop a scorp from uncurling its tail, its so damned strong
> 
> and for a 20cm long Forest Emperor, i doubt any spider would be able to tower over it, as Scorpions are designed for the height advantage in this situation (closer legs, etc)
> 
> here's a pic showing how important a Scorpionid tail can be, its of my old H.swammerdami male being aggressive soley with its tail



wow 20 cm long!! can you get a pic with a ruler!!! WOW


----------



## Scorp guy (May 14, 2006)

demonhunter...go to sleep...man, its 12:30....GO TO SLEEP! lol


----------



## ilovebugs (May 14, 2006)

demonhunter said:
			
		

> wow 20 cm long!! can you get a pic with a ruler!!! WOW


I think scorp_lver is right man...

think about it.

20 centimeters = 7.87401575 inches
(courtesy of google)


----------



## Ryan C. (May 14, 2006)

That isnt abnormally large for a forest emp, and the measurement is from chelicerae to telson.


----------



## G. Carnell (May 14, 2006)

that swammerdami is only 17~ cm

they are reported to get to 23cm in the wild, thats the record i think
(28cm is a joke i think)


----------



## JSN (May 14, 2006)

I think the scorp would win becuase it wont be able to get past the powerfull chela, if the scorpion latched on, it would only be a matter of time, becuase the tarantula would lose its leverage and the scorpion would probably get a sting off even if the T's legs came off and it tried another attack...either that or they probaly would both die from wounds...


----------



## canadianscorp (May 14, 2006)

man, this thread will never end!!!!!


----------



## Scorp guy (May 14, 2006)

yawn! (12:07....yet demonhunter is still awake!) anyone thinking about where each would be attacked and who would be attacked first? what if the blondi was snuck up on? of course the scorp would win easily. if the scorp was asleep or not paying attention and the blondi grabbed it, then the scorp wouldnt get a chance to jab it.


----------



## G. Carnell (May 14, 2006)

i dont think either would attack each other

Scorpionids generally go for prey that are smaller than themselves, anything too big and they will just defend themselves


----------



## ShadowBlade (May 14, 2006)

That's why I said, practically the only way to estimate who would win, is to determine all the aspects of situation. There are way too many variables.
I would still say, Emperor, or they both lose. But there could be other outcomes from different scenarios.


----------



## czarmx (May 14, 2006)

ok, that's enough, i can't take this any longer....

tomorrow i'm going to introduce my T. blondi to my emp's cage and see what happens. :liar: 

i'll tell you later what happened.


----------



## Scorp guy (May 14, 2006)

> i dont think either would attack each other


very true  kind of pointless....this thread really. we can all keep on arguing abotu who will win and all, but well never know! thyell never fight in the wild, and unless a mindless idiot chooses to fight them, then how will we ever know 

PS: the blondi would win;P ;P ;P ;P ;P ;P ;P ;P ;P


----------



## Tleilaxu (May 14, 2006)

ShadowBlade said:
			
		

> Um... bitten??:?
> 
> I still think it's hard to make a decision unless all conditions are specified.
> 
> And why are people saying it would be hard to puncture scorps armor!! Have you seen a blondi's fangs?? Those things would go in at the top, and almost out the bottom if it wanted to!



I was referring to the bite symptoms of the pede. Money is still on T blondi. Have you ever felt the force of them striking forcepts with food attached?


----------



## sweetmisery (May 15, 2006)

czarmx said:
			
		

> ok, that's enough, i can't take this any longer....
> 
> tomorrow i'm going to introduce my T. blondi to my emp's cage and see what happens. :liar:
> 
> i'll tell you later what happened.


LMAO! DO IT MAN! DO IT DO IT DO IT!

Seriouly, just email Animal Planet to make Animal Face Off episode between the two!


----------



## czarmx (May 15, 2006)

sweetmisery said:
			
		

> LMAO! DO IT MAN! DO IT DO IT DO IT!
> 
> Seriouly, just email Animal Planet to make Animal Face Off episode between the two!


sure, i actually did it and i think the T fell in love with the Scorp! :liar: :liar:


----------



## Endugu (May 15, 2006)

heres a rlly good idea lets take this sound generic fantasy and blow it out of porportion :razz: 


Flying blondi vs Invisable Imp

thats the fight of the century


----------



## Scorp guy (May 15, 2006)

know whats really wierd? i was watching a show called venture bros. last night, and a scorpion and a spider both went to ssting a guy (remember, this is cartoon)  and the HUGE spider, and a GIANT black scorpion meet up, and start to fight!!! i though "hrm, thi will end the thread easily" but sadly, they didnt kill one, the guy smashed them both....


----------



## Tleilaxu (May 15, 2006)

"Seriouly, just email Animal Planet to make Animal Face Off episode between the two!"

I was just going to suggest that!!!


----------



## cashewman1 (May 15, 2006)

That would be awesome. IF we all send them in a request for it maybe they will do it. I dunno how to contact them but im sure we can find a way


----------



## Tleilaxu (May 15, 2006)

YES Lets do it! P. imperitor VS T.blondi!


----------



## kahoy (May 16, 2006)

ive been reading tis thread and other threads.

no one is atempting to do it, they just make it as a joke.

how about this...



anyone knows what is that?





;P ;P ;P ;P ;P ;P ;P ;P ;P ;P ;P ;P ;P ;P ;P ;P ;P ;P ;P ;P ;P ;P ;P


----------



## Ryan C. (May 16, 2006)

The "Monster Troglobitic Scorpion" ;P


----------



## kahoy (May 16, 2006)

i know what scorp is this. i mean can we join him in the fight?
;P ;P ;P ;P ;P


----------



## Ryan C. (May 16, 2006)

Sure if you could ever find one. ;P


----------



## kahoy (May 16, 2006)

you got me!


----------



## Hwydrone (May 16, 2006)

My money is on the blondi. I once kept a rose hair in the same 20 gal. tank as an emperor. !DIVIDED! of course! but somehow while I was gone for the weekend...well, I came home to a fat Rosea on the wrong side of the cage and one emperor claw and tail! Lesson learned.


----------



## kahoy (May 16, 2006)

someone send this to me.

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/gallery/showimage.php?i=3353


----------



## maxident213 (May 16, 2006)

kahoy said:
			
		

> someone send this to me.
> 
> http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/gallery/showimage.php?i=3353



That picture is insane!


----------



## Bedlam (May 16, 2006)

kahoy said:
			
		

> someone send this to me.
> 
> http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/gallery/showimage.php?i=3353


The person said the snake was already dead when fed to the spider.



			
				Hwydrone said:
			
		

> My money is on the blondi. I once kept a rose hair in the same 20 gal. tank as an emperor. !DIVIDED! of course! but somehow while I was gone for the weekend...well, I came home to a fat Rosea on the wrong side of the cage and one emperor claw and tail! Lesson learned.


Leave it to the rosie!  Game, Set, Match!


----------



## Usumbara Mtns (May 16, 2006)

*Usumbara Mtns*

 Definetly the blondi (especially if it was full grown)


----------



## G. Carnell (May 16, 2006)

im getting the urge to buy a spider and feed it to my hungry Swammis

SPIDER FREAKS STAY IN YOUR FORUM!!!!!!!


----------



## maxident213 (May 16, 2006)

Hwydrone said:
			
		

> My money is on the blondi. I once kept a rose hair in the same 20 gal. tank as an emperor. !DIVIDED! of course! but somehow while I was gone for the weekend...well, I came home to a fat Rosea on the wrong side of the cage and one emperor claw and tail! Lesson learned.


Wow, if I was a betting man, I would've bet the farm on the Emp in that situation.  :?


----------



## ShadowBlade (May 16, 2006)

maxident213 said:
			
		

> Wow, if I was a betting man, I would've bet the farm on the Emp in that situation.  :?


Exactly.
Did the scorp molt or something??!


----------



## cashewman1 (May 16, 2006)

Hwydrone said:
			
		

> My money is on the blondi. I once kept a rose hair in the same 20 gal. tank as an emperor. !DIVIDED! of course! but somehow while I was gone for the weekend...well, I came home to a fat Rosea on the wrong side of the cage and one emperor claw and tail! Lesson learned.



I know absolutely nothing about T's so correct me if im wrong. But i was under the impression that spiders just injected venom and then sucked the inside out of the prey. Or do they actually eat and dismember it like a scorp would?


----------



## ShadowBlade (May 16, 2006)

If while the scorp's insides were being digested, the claw and tail happened to be outside of what the T was working up to eat, then yes, it wouldn't eat it. But sometimes they will gather up leftovers, make another ball, and suck it up. I've never seen a T' eat a scorp, so I don't know how much, or if the digestive fluids it 'threw up' would ever be able to digest scorp armor.


----------



## kahoy (May 16, 2006)

to see is to believe

nice signature, we got bunnies!


----------



## Ewok (May 17, 2006)

G. Carnell said:
			
		

> SPIDER FREAKS STAY IN YOUR FORUM!!!!!!!



haha thats funny


----------



## Ewok (May 17, 2006)

After watching scorpions kill and eat tarantulas on "Scorpion Tail" on  Animal Planet last night, I think the emperor would kill the blondi.


----------



## Fierce Deity (May 17, 2006)

My bet is that the blondi pounces on the emp and bites in right in the middle, and while it is being bitten the scorp stings the blondi in the face, and then they both die.


----------



## Ryan C. (May 17, 2006)

-palau- said:
			
		

> After watching scorpions kill and eat tarantulas on "Scorpion Tail" on  Animal Planet last night, I think the emperor would kill the blondi.


Those were unexpecting, wandering mature males though.


----------



## cashewman1 (May 17, 2006)

Well it made quiteee a show of T's getting eaten by scorps, and seemed to make it look like T's are more of a naturl prey to scorps then scorps are to t's so im stilll gonna say scorps ftw


----------



## G. Carnell (May 17, 2006)

cashewman1 said:
			
		

> Well it made quiteee a show of T's getting eaten by scorps, and seemed to make it look like T's are more of a naturl prey to scorps then scorps are to t's so im stilll gonna say scorps ftw



thats been the idea for ages.. not just now

most old books on scorpions show them as supreme invertebrates (excluding ants...)
ive got an old book on scorps which claims scorpions are their "favourite" food source, and judging by my experience of feeding wolf spiders to Euscorpius sp, thats the case


----------



## CopperInMyVeins (May 24, 2006)

cashewman1 said:
			
		

> I know absolutely nothing about T's so correct me if im wrong. But i was under the impression that spiders just injected venom and then sucked the inside out of the prey. Or do they actually eat and dismember it like a scorp would?


Well "true spiders" usually suck out the inside, leaving the exoskeleton intact, but Mygalomorphs, the suborder that includes tarantulas, have chelicera side by side, instead of facing each other, and and the undersides usually have teeth or ridges, which the fangs act on to masticate prey, the bases of the pedipalps may be toothed or ridged too.  Generally, when my tarantulas eat, there are no recognizable pieces of the prey left over, they dismember and mash them up pretty thoroughly.  
    Also, based on my experience feeding Orange Head Roaches (Eublaberus prosticus) to both tarantulas and emperor scorpions, I'd say the tarantula is probably a lot more likely to get the first strike, and would probably be better at subduing the scorpion.  Both Theraphosa apophysis and Hysterocrates will literally catch the roach in mid air as it's dropped in, and hold it tightly until it's dead, the apophysis even managed to basically fold one in half with it's fangs.  When feeding nymphs (the spiders got adults) of the same roaches to emperor scorpions, the roaches would easily get away, and the scorpions were much slower to react.  They actually had to be crushed and turned upside down for the scorpions to be able to grab them easily.
    Chances are these animals would just totally avoid each other unless they were really confined anyway, but my money would be on the Theraphosa.  I think Scolopendra gigantea would probably make short work of either though.


----------



## ShadowBlade (May 24, 2006)

CopperInMyVeins said:
			
		

> I'd say the tarantula is probably a lot more likely to get the first strike, and would probably be better at subduing the scorpion.


First, this is assuming the tarantula WANTED to attack the scorp first, u said they would ignore each other.-- Which means it would be whichever decided to strike. And the Scorp can almost always inject the T with venom even if the T grabbed the scorp, injected it, and did whatever to subdue it, the scorp would keep on sting sting sting....


----------



## Scorp guy (May 24, 2006)

the blondi would win the blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would winthe blondi would win


----------



## ShadowBlade (May 24, 2006)

That's funny-
"SCORP LOVER"---"BLONDI WOULD KILL SCORP" 

Anyone can say it, but why do u think so? Sorry if u've posted your thoughts before, but how can something win, if it's going to DIE??


----------



## CopperInMyVeins (May 24, 2006)

ShadowBlade said:
			
		

> First, this is assuming the tarantula WANTED to attack the scorp first, u said they would ignore each other.-- Which means it would be whichever decided to strike. And the Scorp can almost always inject the T with venom even if the T grabbed the scorp, injected it, and did whatever to subdue it, the scorp would keep on sting sting sting....


I'm saying that if they were put in a confined space together, the only way a "fight" like this would occur anyway, I think the tarantula would be the quicker to react.  I'm pretty sure one or both of them would want to attack if they were confined it that way, I'm saying the match up would never happen if they weren't.  From that I've seen of emperor scorpions in action, they're fairly slow and clumsy in comparison.  I'm not talking about scorpions in general, but emperors specifically.  Tarantulas are pretty good at not getting hurt when subduing other invertibrates, I don't think they would lose all their caution if the prey is a scorpion.  The Hysterocrates will actually hold it's 4 front legs up off the ground to keep the struggling roach from kicking them.


----------



## Scorp guy (May 24, 2006)

why would it win? the blondi, think, massive HUGE 10" size, full of power, LUNGING onto a scorp 1/4 its size, injecting venom, and crushing it with 1" fangs going right through its body, the blondi would kill it. my blondi especially :drool:  just got done feeding her a mouse.


----------



## ShadowBlade (May 24, 2006)

Oh, yes, I know how T's defend themselves. But still, when a Theraphosa blondi, (since we are talking specific here) won't think "OH! Stinger! Gotta watch out for that, it'll hurt!!"
Anywhere the scopr stings, it will go in! Legs, mouth, eyes, whatever, the T simply cannot prevent the scorp from somehow tagging him.
BTW: This is what I think would happen 99.99% of the time, I'm sure sometime it would get lucky and be able to subdue it in some weird position...


----------



## Scorp guy (May 24, 2006)

ok, now, what *IF* the blondi got abbed by that tail? it wouldnt just let go of the scorp, and did we ever think it *MAY* survive the sting?


----------



## CopperInMyVeins (May 24, 2006)

This whole thing brings up an interesting question, just how effective are are the venoms of these various predators on each other?  I've read that tarantula venom is actually much more effective on rodents than on other invertibrates, giving the impression that it's more of a defensive measure than a means of killing prey.  I think centipede venom is pretty effective on both vertebrates and invertebrates.  I know that Scolopendra gigantea will always kill laboratory mice, within 3 minutes if injected in the tail, and in as little as 30 seconds, if the injection is near the head/neck.  I'm not sure where emperor scorpions would fit into this, would their venom actually be quick acting and deadly to T. blondi?


----------



## ShadowBlade (May 25, 2006)

Apparently T venom is much more potent on cold-blooded animals then on warmbloods. That's why a mouse can take atleast a minute to die from a T bite. (Only a bite) lol.
But I (Not being much of a scorp expert yet, I'm a T guy mostly) I don't know what makes scorp venom more or less potent. I would think it would be quite disabling to a T.
But I still say, this thing's a draw, they're both gonna fight to the death, and die. (eventually)...


----------



## ShadowBlade (May 25, 2006)

U guys are in bed already? sheesh, it's only 1:00 in the morning, where'd ya go?? Yawwwn, now I'm bored...


----------



## CopperInMyVeins (May 25, 2006)

ShadowBlade said:
			
		

> Apparently T venom is much more potent on cold-blooded animals then on warmbloods. That's why a mouse can take atleast a minute to die from a T bite. (Only a bite) lol.


That's odd, I've actually read the opposite, that it's more effective on rodents, not all vertebrates, but specifically rodents than anything else, including invertebrates.  I've never fed a vertebrate to one, but if you say that a mouse will die in about a minute, that definitely backs this up.  I've seen the orange head roaches still struggling and moving 15 or even 20 minutes after capture.


----------



## ShadowBlade (May 25, 2006)

Oh, did i say die? Sorry, i meant incapacitated enough for the T to start working on it.
Yes, some vertebrates are more affected by the venom apparently. Like Dogs and Cats even, we just have a lucky break. But I still think the effects of T venom are much more potent in cold-bloods, like reptiles, and I've read books that agree that cold-bloods are more affected then warms.


----------



## ScorpDude (May 26, 2006)

If you ask me they'd both die. One of them would bite/sting then the other would bite/sting and they'd both die


----------



## Brian S (May 26, 2006)

I cant believe this useless, worthless thread is still goining.


----------



## Crono (May 26, 2006)

Brian S said:
			
		

> I cant believe this useless, worthless thread is still goining.


Amen Brother
Testify!!!!!


----------



## Spiderface (May 28, 2006)

I watched a show on scorps not long ago on animal planet and they seemed to dispatch tarantulas with ease. I am a tarantula lover but I honestly think the emperor would win 9 out of 10 times. As to how relevant this is or why we seem so interested in this subject.....who knows?


----------



## ShadowBlade (May 28, 2006)

Those were oblivious wandering males. And they were by no means ticked off blondi's.
It'd be a tie 9/10 times, they'd both bite/sting each other, and unless the T can survive and emp sting, they'd both be dead.


----------



## Scorp guy (May 28, 2006)

> cant believe this useless, worthless thread is still goining.


to you. if its so wortthless, then dont read it or leave.


----------

