# Seedling care



## The Seraph (Mar 1, 2019)

How would one go about carding for Jacaranda mimosifolia, Picea abies and Pinus aristata seedlings?


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## schmiggle (Mar 2, 2019)

I would stratify Picea and Pinus seeds--leave them in water for 3 months in a refrigerator (they probably don't need that much time, but better safe than sorry). If you already have seedlings, they'll probably like high light all around. Jacaranda and P. abies will want it warmer and wetter than Pinus aristata. How are you planning to care for the latter two in Florida, particularly Pinus aristata?

Reactions: Helpful 2


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## The Snark (Mar 2, 2019)

I vaguely remember a display of the Jacaranda at LA County Arboretum - Santa Anita. One year it went below freezing went about a week and the trees went GACK! and looked half dead. They cut one down and the next year it shot back up as a bush. But the real funny was it still retained it's flowering propensity so you had this 5-6 foot tall bush with a massive flowing bridal veil train of flowers.


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## The Seraph (Mar 2, 2019)

schmiggle said:


> How are you planning to care for the latter two in Florida, particularly Pinus aristata?


I have no idea. I have only planted the Jacaranda since I know it can probably survive. I was simply wondering if they required different care after they sprouted. Thank you for the help though! I deeply appreciate it.


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## The Seraph (Mar 2, 2019)

The Snark said:


> But the real funny was it still retained it's flowering propensity so you had this 5-6 foot tall bush with a massive flowing bridal veil train of flowers.


This is a part of the appeal of Jacaranda bonsai (which is what I plan to do with it). Just a tiny little plant burdened by full sized flowers.


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## The Snark (Mar 2, 2019)

The Seraph said:


> This is a part of the appeal of Jacaranda bonsai (which is what I plan to do with it). Just a tiny little plant burdened by full sized flowers.


You mean you can take these puppies and turn them micro miniature with full sized flowers? You wouldn't even be able to find the tree! Post pics if you get one going!

I'd like to see a longan or lamyai bonsai. Ultra resillient, you can cut them off at the dirt and they just zoom back. Incredibly hard, tough wood yet fast growing. I've been tring to kill one in the back yard for 10 years. Fully in shade it's been equal in the battle so far. Third cut back to the roots and it's... looking out the window... YIPES! 20 feet tall again.
The farmers and hill tribe people love the lamyai. They trim the orchards every year and collect every stick and twig. A few twigs and 1" branches will cook the dinner and keep the place warm all night.

Lamyai - brownish small (1" max) fruit, longan - yellow fruit up to 1 1/2", lychee - red fruit up to 2".

BTW! HEALTH WARNING! NEVER BUY LYCHEE JUICE FROM COMMERCIAL SUPPLIERS!
They will buy and juice any fruit. Until the lychee is fully ripe it contains a pretty powerful toxin that plays hell with the kidneys and urinary tract and can trash the immune system. Especially hazardous to small children.


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## The Seraph (Mar 2, 2019)

The Snark said:


> You mean you can take these puppies and turn them micro miniature with full sized flowers? You wouldn't even be able to find the tree! Post pics if you get one going!


That is what happens to all bonsai. They are just regular trees trained to be really small. The flowers and fruit are unaffected.


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## The Snark (Mar 2, 2019)

The Seraph said:


> That is what happens to all bonsai.


I never gave that much thought. I know that the wiring is used to control growth by restricting the cambium layer though. That first pic looks like Wisteria.

I want to see a little Jacaranda bansai spork with full adult flowering, covering the table top and cascading down and across the floor!

Reactions: Like 1


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## The Seraph (Mar 2, 2019)

The Snark said:


> That first pic looks like Wisteria.


. . . It does. That is not what I intended. Oh the laments of the touchscreen!


The Snark said:


> I want to see a little Jacaranda bansai spork with full adult flowering, covering the table top and cascading down and across the floor!


I suppose it would just depend on how much fertilizer you use and the size of the bonsai. If it is a small shonin then the flowers will not be as extravagant but if it is a roided up tree the size of a child then maybe the flowers will be flowing locks.

Edit: Also I just realized that almost everybody would chop off most of the flowers if they did cover the room since that does not look very natural.


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## The Snark (Mar 2, 2019)

The Seraph said:


> If it is a small shonin then the flowers will not be as extravagant but if it is a roided up tree the size of a child then maybe the flowers will be flowing locks.


I want to see you take on a lamyai. One of the reasons they are so popular is they will grow in the mingiest nutrient free soil. Most of the orchards were marginal land where crops wouldn't thrive. Our yard has a hard time growing weeds, the soil being washed alluvial silt. That dang lamyai loves it.


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## The Seraph (Mar 2, 2019)

The Snark said:


> I want to see you take on a lamyai. One of the reasons they are so popular is they will grow in the mingiest nutrient free soil. Most of the orchards were marginal land where crops wouldn't thrive. Our yard has a hard time growing weeds, the soil being washed alluvial silt. That dang lamyai loves it.


How large are the leaves? If the leaves are too large than it will look very awkward as a small bonsai. You can only get the leaves so small, and after that point it kinda needs to be big in order to look natural.


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## The Snark (Mar 2, 2019)

Your bonsai silly. A friend decided to have a bonsai garden, in his normal garden. He dug out an area and poured in cement, making little pots in the ground flush with the surface and installed some bonsais and seedlings. It was quite interesting at first. This area of the yard where everything was in miniature. Then he got a promotion at work and had very little time to tend the garden. One of his cute little micro trees was a pine. A S.U.M.O. as he named it: Subversive Underground Malevolent Organism. Barely giving a nod and shrug to the 3-4 inches of concrete it shot a root right through it down into his septic tank.
Making a long story short, my friend reconciled himself to the fates and put in a little sign in front of the 60 foot tree: World Largest Bonsai.



The Seraph said:


> How large are the leaves? If the leaves are too large than it will look very awkward as a small bonsai.


Get up to about 3 inches long.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## The Snark (Mar 2, 2019)

The Snark said:


> Making a long story short, my friend reconciled himself to the fates and put in a little sign in front of the 60 foot tree: World Largest Bonsai.


It's been cut back a few dozen times and the ownership has changed, but you can still see the effects of the bonsai a little.
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.059...=39.45545&pitch=0&thumbfov=100!7i16384!8i8192

Reactions: Agree 1


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## The Seraph (Mar 2, 2019)

The Snark said:


> Your bonsai silly. A friend decided to have a bonsai garden, in his normal garden. He dug out an area and poured in cement, making little pots in the ground flush with the surface and installed some bonsais and seedlings. It was quite interesting at first. This area of the yard where everything was in miniature. Then he got a promotion at work and had very little time to tend the garden. One of his cute little micro trees was a pine. A S.U.M.O. as he named it: Subversive Underground Malevolent Organism. Barely giving a nod and shrug to the 3-4 inches of concrete it shot a root right through it down into his septic tank.
> Making a long story short, my friend reconciled himself to the fates and put in a little sign in front of the 60 foot tree: World Largest Bonsai.
> 
> 
> Get up to about 3 inches long.


That is a very interesting and unique idea. I can see how it would work. Also, what exactly do you mean by bonsai silly? Finally, that is not that big of a leaf. You could probably make the leaves fairly small. What does the bark of the lamyai look like?


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## The Snark (Mar 2, 2019)

The Seraph said:


> That is a very interesting and unique idea. I can see how it would work. Also, what exactly do you mean by bonsai silly? Finally, that is not that big of a leaf. You could probably make the leaves fairly small. What does the bark of the lamyai look like?


I'll grab some pictures. Need to grab the camera from the mitts of the airhead first. A bonsai is what it isn't or, contrarywise, isn't what it is, was or supposed to be, on the short side.


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## The Seraph (Mar 2, 2019)

The Snark said:


> A bonsai is what it isn't or, contrarywise, isn't what it is, was or supposed to be, on the short side


. . . Okay then. From what I can understand, we agree. Bonsai is not a natural tree but smaller. It is man made and influenced nature made to look natural. It is meant to convey the sense of being natural, when in reality it is very blatantly unnatural. It is an idealiztion of what nature should look like.


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## The Snark (Mar 2, 2019)

http://arachnoboards.com/threads/gardens-of-the-heart.263616/#post-2281154

Reactions: Love 1


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## The Seraph (Mar 2, 2019)

The Snark said:


> http://arachnoboards.com/threads/gardens-of-the-heart.263616/#post-2281154


Ah, you have mentioned this before. Thank you deeply for providing a thread surrounding it. I appreciate it.


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## The Snark (Mar 2, 2019)

The Seraph said:


> Thank you deeply for providing a thread surrounding it.


There was another display in that garden. About 6 feet across, a little hillside. Small fired clay children at play were here and there among the rocks an trees. Then your imagination got bumped as you realize the bonsais in the display were emulations of children at play in all sorts of fanciful postures and poses.

Reactions: Love 1


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## schmiggle (Mar 2, 2019)

Oh, didn't realize this was bonsai! Lol. Bristlecone might actually be a good choice, because what usually kills them is when people have them in soil that's too rich and damp and they rot. Once you're stunting it anyway and it's in a soil that dries out quickly it will have a much better shot.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## The Seraph (Mar 2, 2019)

schmiggle said:


> Oh, didn't realize this was bonsai! Lol. Bristlecone might actually be a good choice, because what usually kills them is when people have them in soil that's too rich and damp and they rot. Once you're stunting it anyway and it's in a soil that dries out quickly it will have a much better shot.


Okay then! I was actually posting pretty much the same thread on a bonsai forum and apparently they do not do well as humid climes kill Bristlecone very easily by promoting fungus growth. They apparently often do not live beyond five years outside of the Rockies. Any advice on the spruce?


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## The Snark (Mar 3, 2019)

schmiggle said:


> Bristlecone


To boldly live where no life form has gone before. Absofreakinglutely amazing tree. Just keep the roots bone dry and water diligently 1 inch of rain every year.
Fond fond memories of riding through their forest, Inyo White mountains. Like a trip through ancient history surrounded by the oldest living plants.

Reactions: Like 2


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## The Snark (Mar 3, 2019)

Sunrise, Inyo Whites on the horizon. We had a Bristlecone a few miles from where that shot was taken. Perched on top of a jumble of rocks, the nearest dirt 30 feet away.

Reactions: Like 1


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## The Mantis Menagerie (Mar 6, 2019)

The Snark said:


> Lamyai - brownish small (1" max) fruit, longan - yellow fruit up to 1 1/2", lychee - red fruit up to 2".


I am quite familiar with both longan and lychee, but do you know the scientific name for lamyai?


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## The Snark (Mar 7, 2019)

The Mantis Menagerie said:


> I am quite familiar with both longan and lychee, but do you know the scientific name for lamyai?


If you have any idea I would very much like to know as well. Langsat, Longkon, Lanzone, Lansium. I feel certain it is not a relative, at least a close one, of the Longan as the wood of the tree displays the properties of Mahogany, Lansium Parasiticum.

I have also heard two rumors.
1. HRH King Bhumipol hybridized the Lamyai in his early botanical days at Chitrilada as a marginal land fast growing version of the longan, notably having a much thinner skin. Also, longan grow in thick bunches while lamyai fruiting isn't as tight a mass and tends to grow on longer stems.*
2. Some person unknown hybrized it and foisted it off through government contacts in a serious get rich quick operation where low or no interest rate loans for buying seedlings were widely available.
Or possibly a combination of the above 2 with the King following his make no waves/don't upset people, simply stepping back and letting the profiteers take over.
In any case, 'lamyai' flooded and still flood the market, and are easily noticed as different from longan to the buyers.

* It is noteworthy, King Bhumipol was an ardent naturalist and botanist who scoured the world over for trees and plants he could adapt to Thailand climates. I feel that he probably kept scrupulous records but they have very rarely emerged into the light of day. People took him at his word and had no interest in botanical names and hybridzing. Typical examples would be the Thai avocado, the local Arabica coffee, and the adapted form of the Descanso Rock Rose HRH introduced for erosion control. If there is documentation on his efforts with those and other plants, they haven't emerged from Chitrilada that I know of.


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## The Mantis Menagerie (Mar 7, 2019)

Do you have any pictures for helping identification, such as close-up pictures of the bark, leaves, or fruit? I grow a lot of tropical fruit, so I might recognize it. If not, then I could try posting it to iNaturalist for identification (I would need a general location.)


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## The Snark (Mar 7, 2019)

The Mantis Menagerie said:


> Do you have any pictures for helping identification, such as close-up pictures of the bark, leaves, or fruit? I grow a lot of tropical fruit, so I might recognize it. If not, then I could try posting it to iNaturalist for identification (I would need a general location.)


I can certainly get them. Have a lamyai and longan orchard across the road. Not fruit season however but I will try to get a good study of the bark and leaves and will add lychee for a comparison. I've also considered getting a specific gravity of the different woods.


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## The Snark (Mar 8, 2019)

The Mantis Menagerie said:


> Do you have any pictures for helping identification, such as close-up pictures of the bark, leaves, or fruit?


One possible explanation I was given. Lamyai are longan, cloned from very fast growing root stock. Supposedly an enterprising entrepreneur cashing in on the longan market cloned tens of thousands. Longan fruit buyers have 4 grades of fruit, A through D. Lamyai can at best get grade C. Most are D.


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## schmiggle (Mar 8, 2019)

Scientific name for Longan: Dimocarpus longan. It's in the same family as lychee, rambutan, etc. Don't think there's a distinction between Lamyai and Longan.


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## The Mantis Menagerie (Mar 9, 2019)

The Snark said:


> I feel certain it is not a relative, at least a close one, of the Longan as the wood of the tree displays the properties of Mahogany, Lansium Parasiticum.





schmiggle said:


> Scientific name for Longan: Dimocarpus longan. It's in the same family as lychee, rambutan, etc. Don't think there's a distinction between Lamyai and Longan.


I know the scientific name for longan.  


The Snark said:


> I can certainly get them. Have a lamyai and longan orchard across the road. Not fruit season however but I will try to get a good study of the bark and leaves and will add lychee for a comparison. I've also considered getting a specific gravity of the different woods.


There is no need for lychee pictures (unless you really want to). I have several lychee trees.


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