# Anesthetization of Centipedes



## Travis K (Jun 7, 2011)

I was wondering which method is more practical to anesthetize pedes, water or CO2.

Can those of you that have done either or both techniques comment with what you have done in a step by step format.  Maybe even have some pics for each method and include exposure times.  I would like to sex and measure my Scolopendra and this seems like the best bet, I just am not sold on which method to use.

This thread was sorta helpful, but lacked detailed description. http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=195963&highlight=anesthetize

Cheers,


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## Galapoheros (Jun 7, 2011)

I've always used water but I don't post it much because I expect people to complain.  It is prob more stressful to the pede but there's never been any problems in each countless case over here.  I get a deli and a top, then fill it up with rainwater, I'd use bottled water if I didn't have that.  I fill it "to the top", drop the pede in and then put the top on.  That way the pede can't get out.  I check it about 20 minutes later.  If it reacts too much for me not to feel safe, I leave it in another 15 or 20 minutes.  It might be the case that ground dwelling inverts that hang around riparian areas have evolved to outlast flash flooding this way.  They wake up several minutes later, kind of in a slow way.


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## super-pede (Jun 7, 2011)

water boarding pedes is an easier way to do it but since I have a co2 set up that's what I use.


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## redrumpslump (Jun 7, 2011)

Im not sure if you've seen this thread Travis, but it's a easy and cheap homemade CO2 chamber made by JC.
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=208938&highlight=Sexing+centipedes

Matt


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## Travis K (Jun 7, 2011)

redrumpslump said:


> Im not sure if you've seen this thread Travis, but it's a easy and cheap homemade CO2 chamber made by JC.
> http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=208938&highlight=Sexing+centipedes
> 
> Matt


I have, thanks for posting it as I had forgotten about it.  I just wonder if the CO2 is more complicated than it ought to be if H2O is just as safe or safer.  I have a ton of things that I need to get done around the house, but will try the water method out as soon as I can as I have promised measurement pics for some time now.  LOL, 20 mins seems like a long time though


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## web eviction (Jun 7, 2011)

I ask how to sex a centipede once and my only reply was drown them.......I thought they were joking


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## zonbonzovi (Jun 7, 2011)

Haven't tried water yet, but prob. will give it a shot when I run out of cartridges.  BTW, if you can get hold of CO2 for industrial apps., i.e., a good size tank, you'll save money over the long term.  Chyguy's photo of the setup is accurate.  If you're using that delivery system, keep your tupperware container small.  A single cartridge will keep your 'pede knocked out for a couple minutes, at most.  I generally keep the container closed for 30 seconds after emptying a cartridge so the oxygen can escape and to make sure 'pede has stopped twitching.  You should have your gear set up ahead of time: light, camera/lens/scope aimed, cutting board/paper towel/etc. for moving the 'pede easily without handling while it's asleep.  When 'pede is in place, roll your finger/spoon/etc. from left to right toward the terminals with slight pressure to evert the organs _from the 2nd to last sternite_.  This is where the stickies at the top of the myriapod subforum come in handy to show difference between male/female genetalia. 

To future readers, if you're considering doing this and you haven't read the stickies, may ROD have mercy on your soul!

http://www.kfcplainfield.com/tv/rod.jpg


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## Travis K (Jun 7, 2011)

Galapoheros said:


> I've always used water but I don't post it much because I expect people to complain.  It is prob more stressful to the pede but there's never been any problems in each countless case over here.  I get a deli and a top, then fill it up with rainwater, I'd use bottled water if I didn't have that.  I fill it "to the top", drop the pede in and then put the top on.  That way the pede can't get out.  I check it about 20 minutes later.  If it reacts too much for me not to feel safe, I leave it in another 15 or 20 minutes.  It might be the case that ground dwelling inverts that hang around riparian areas have evolved to outlast flash flooding this way.  They wake up several minutes later, kind of in a slow way.


Typically how long do the effects of the H2O last once the pede is nonresponsive?


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## Galapoheros (Jun 7, 2011)

I think I'll make a vid tonight next to a clock(?), but it may look disturbing to some.  The longer you leave them under water, the longer they stay out and it depends on the pede:?  I've never really timed it before, maybe 30 mins under water you get 5+ mins of working time.  I've always had plenty of time so I just put them back and 20 or so minutes later they are moving around.  btw, works with scorpions too.


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## neubii18 (Jun 7, 2011)

Galapoheros said:


> I think I'll make a vid tonight next to a clock(?), but it may look disturbing to some.  The longer you leave them under water, the longer they stay out and it depends on the pede:?  I've never really timed it before, maybe 30 mins under water you get 5+ mins of working time.  I've always had plenty of time so I just put them back and 20 or so minutes later they are moving around.  btw, works with scorpions too.


I just put mine in water 3 minutes ago.It is a 5" S.polymorpha.We'll see how long it takes.I'll post my results.I really hope this works!!I've been trying to sex these guys forever!


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## Galapoheros (Jun 7, 2011)

It DOES work, people are just afraid to do it


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## KyuZo (Jun 7, 2011)

web eviction said:


> I ask how to sex a centipede once and my only reply was drown them.......I thought they were joking


Lol, yup, that was me.  guilty as charged


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## Travis K (Jun 8, 2011)

OK, FYI...

9:45pm PST - Placed specimen in sealed Ziploc bag with bottled spring water I had laying around from some triops a while back.

Ziploc bags are not a good option!  Not only can they grip zip locks with a force one wouldn't expect but their tarsal hooks poke tiny little holes in the bag.  By the time I decided that was not the brightest idea this ?girl? decided to bite right through the bag and not let go for about 4 mins.

An interesting note is that the pede literally would let go of the bag at times and swim like a lizard would with legs loose and snake like undulations to propel itself through the water.  I thought this was very neat, and was half tempted to fill up the bath tub.














9:55pm PST - Placed specimen in pitcher after carefully getting the pede to remove itself from the bag.

Here is where I get really impressed with centipedes.  I just let it do it's thing for about 5 mins.  This pede would lift portions of its body up and literally suck in air through it's spiracles and use the new found buoyancy to lift up other spiracles and then repeat the sucking in of air.  It was like watching a whale with 10 plus blow holes.  I would push the pede down with the forceps and watch it do it all over again.

10:05pm PST, I finally decided to get this show on the road and put a pitcher strainer over the pede.  Keep in mind it was pretty much mostly submerged the last 20 mins.







10:30pm PST - Finally a pede that looked dead...

The below pic show a 'total length of over 11", but I know that is not how we measure.  But I can try, right?







As you can see below the actual body length is only 9"







Female?  I know, I know... those are crappy pics.  BTW, I was rather disturbed at the amount of pressure it took to eject the sex organs.  I was not comfortable with that at all.



















I went to bed at 11:10 and the pede was still out cold, but in the morning it was buried at the bottom of the tank again


Cheers,


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## Galapoheros (Jun 8, 2011)

The strainer thing was a good idea, ...btw, I've only done this with heros pedes.  What kind of pede are you messing with?  At first I used a big glass bowl for storing stuff in the fridge and would push the pede down with a spoon or something like it.  They try to hit the surface exposing a spiracle to the air and "take a breath" then they float.  They can contract and expand their body to do this.  If you time it right they sink fast. I just recently started using the deli and top thing, saves water since I use bottled water to do it.  It's safer than people think it is because we're biased about how we breath.  I really think a 6 inch pede would survive after a few hours after being submerged.  Old story, I had some polymorphas that were outside I had forgotten about.  It rained and water off the roof filled it up.  They had been on the bottom for around 18 hours.  It took over 24 hours for me to see any movement but they eventually recovered.  It was a cold Fall rain though, I'm thinking it might have kept their metab down.

---------- Post added at 01:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:06 AM ----------

I think that's the biggest sub I've ever seen, I mean, officially, next to a ruler in a solid way.


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## Travis K (Jun 8, 2011)

Galapoheros said:


> [/COLOR]I think that's the biggest sub I've ever seen, I mean, officially, next to a ruler in a solid way.


I don't know.  Too many people take pics of their inverts and claim sizes that just can't be verified.  It kinda bugs me.


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## redrumpslump (Jun 8, 2011)

Yes I agree with you Travis. Annoying when people post pics of there bugs and say they're 10" or something but don't show an actual pic of it next to a ruler. You got a big and beefy pede though. Good pics.

Matt


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## Meecht (Jun 8, 2011)

Would this work with any Scolopendra species?  I have given thought to selling my S. subspinipes vietnamese, and I think knowing the sex would be useful.


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## redrumpslump (Jun 8, 2011)

I'm sure it would. 

Matt


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## Travis K (Jun 8, 2011)

Pulk,

Look I found your missing *A*.


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## ShadowBlade (Jun 8, 2011)

Travis K said:


> Pulk,
> 
> Look I found your missing *A*.


Hahahahahahaha! That's awesome.

Nice pede by the way. 

-Sean


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## Travis K (Jun 8, 2011)

Travis K said:


> Pulk,
> 
> Look I found your missing *A*.


http://www.thefreedictionary.com/anesthetize


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## zonbonzovi (Jun 8, 2011)

I cringed for you when I saw the words "Ziploc bag".  Don't see any man parts in your photo...I think it's a lady.  A chunky one.  

About the ability to withstand drowning: heros in particular inhabit areas that see flash flooding during the monsoons & many tropical 'pedes are thick in lowland areas where it would be advantageous to be able to chase prey through water and survive, again, monsoons.  I've seen a couple species of beetle do the same thing as Galapahero's forgotten polys.  Speculation?  A little.  

I would love to set up a huge tank with a massive water feature to watch them swim for prey.  Can't find the youtube vid with one crossing a slough.  Anybody have that archived?


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## khil (Jun 8, 2011)

1. what species of scolopendra is this?
2. this kills the pede right? sorry im not sure what is going on exactly.


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## Meecht (Jun 8, 2011)

killing in order to sex a creature kind of defeats the purpose 

since most Scolopendra live and burrow in areas with frequent flooding, they've developed a way to enter a type of temporary stasis when submerged for long periods of time.


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## super-pede (Jun 8, 2011)

zonbonzovi said:


> I would love to set up a huge tank with a massive water feature to watch them swim for prey.  Can't find the youtube vid with one crossing a slough.  Anybody have that archived?


 I know that this dude didn't actually run after that centipede because that would have to be the fastest centipede ever.

but this is the one where it swims around. I don't think they would swim after prey though.
[YOUTUBE]JP_c1Gzbcro&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]


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## Travis K (Jun 9, 2011)

That is exactly what I saw.

Now back to my OP, I think the H2O method might be more practical as it knocked my peer out for over 30 minutes.  CO2 is only good for what, 5-10 minutes?


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## super-pede (Jun 9, 2011)

Travis K said:


> Now back to my OP, I think the H2O method might be more practical as it knocked my peer out for over 30 minutes.


water boarding your peers is a big no-no


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## nissan480 (Jun 10, 2011)

super-pede said:


> water boarding your peers is a big no-no


Why exactly is it a big no no:?


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## super-pede (Jun 10, 2011)

nissan480 said:


> Why exactly is it a big no no:?


do your *peers* water board you?

---------- Post added at 11:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:22 PM ----------

I feel my sense of humor may be escaping you.


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## nissan480 (Jun 10, 2011)

ah, read the thread earlier and forgot bout that. Just saw  your last post and was curious.


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## Galapoheros (Jun 10, 2011)

good lord, the peer/pede thing messed me up for 10 minutes:?


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## super-pede (Jun 10, 2011)

my bad....


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## Travis K (Jun 10, 2011)

Galapoheros said:


> good lord, the peer/pede thing messed me up for 10 minutes:?





super-pede said:


> my bad....


LOL, gotta love typos...


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## zonbonzovi (Jun 10, 2011)

Travis K said:


> That is exactly what I saw.
> 
> Now back to my OP, I think the H2O method might be more practical as it knocked my pede(sic) out for over 30 minutes.  CO2 is only good for what, 5-10 minutes?


Agreed, esp. if you're trying to get detailed pix.  5-10 min. is...generous, at best.  May be different if you have a large volume of CO2 to work with.  If you're working with a lot of specimens in the same day, CO2 will be more efficient, but it would be nice to have more time to do the things(like get a proper ID) you can't while they're awake, hate-filled and frothing at the modified leg 

Galapaheros, since you've been doing this for awhile- any ill effects or mishaps you've come across?


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## Galapoheros (Jun 10, 2011)

No, no problems at all, I just try and not forget it's in a bowl of water, though even if they were left in for a couple+ hours I think they would be OK later.  So imo, there is no fine line to worry about when they are under water.  btw, most inverts are pretty drown tolerant.  I first noticed it when I was around 8 or 9.  I found a big caterpillar next to a curb after a heavy rain.  I was real disappointed because it was the biggest I had seen and I thought it was dead.  I took it to the garage and saw it's heart barely going along it's back side.  "Hey mom!!! it's alive!".  "No it's not Todd, it's dead."  "No, it's alive!"  About 30 mins later it was crawling around.  I showed HER lol, over a few decades later and I still remember that.


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## MrCrackerpants (Jun 14, 2011)

Galapoheros said:


> I get a deli and a top, then fill it up with rainwater, I'd use bottled water if I didn't have that.  I fill it "to the top", drop the pede in and then put the top on.  That way the pede can't get out.  I check it about 20 minutes later.  If it reacts too much for me not to feel safe, I leave it in another 15 or 20 minutes.  They wake up several minutes later, kind of in a slow way.


This is great info. I am going to try this.


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## Monthud (Jun 15, 2011)

That would suck to get a bite from a nine inch centipede


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## Travis K (Sep 12, 2011)

Monthud said:


> That would suck to get a bite from a nine inch centipede


Fortunately for me, I wouldn't know.



So anyone else put this method to good use?
Any one have a confirmed male they would like to loan or sell me?


Also I am please that I have had my big girl for almost 3 years now.
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?149569-Travis-K-s-first-Pede!-8-quot-phat-monster-LOL
I had a few people tell me that I shouldn't expect it to live too much longer.  I would guess she has molted between 3-5 times in my care and is clearly still growing.


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## zonbonzovi (Sep 13, 2011)

Travis K said:


> Any one have a confirmed male they would like to loan or sell me?


Ditto.  What, no photos of the long-lived beast?


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