# New to the hobby- advice for a communal roach and millipede tank



## DatMillipede (Jul 22, 2013)

Hey everyone, this will be my first time going into to this hobby, so I will want easy-to care for species. That's not to say I have no experiance with animals, as I am the proud owner of both fish and shrimp tanks. Anyways, on to the question. The available tank is 10 gallons. I was thinking about some bumblebee millipedes and domino roaches. They wouldn't kill each other, would they? If possible, I would like the millipedes on the ground, and the roaches climbing. However, the first priority is the critter's health. Not sure about soil and dietary needs. ANY help, input, or experiance will be appreciated. Thanks in advance!


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## Scoolman (Jul 22, 2013)

Domino roaches live in the leaf litter, they will not climb. Madagascar Hissing roaches (G portentosa) will climb, but are also ground dwellers. 
If you want to combine roaches and millipedes it would be best if they both came from the same region. Both organisms live and feed in the same system, so they are going to compete for shelter and resources. But, they should coexist together with no major issues.

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## DatMillipede (Jul 22, 2013)

Scoolman said:


> Domino roaches live in the leaf litter, they will not climb. Madagascar Hissing roaches (G portentosa) will climb, but are also ground dwellers.
> If you want to combine roaches and millipedes it would be best if they both came from the same region. Both organisms live and feed in the same system, so they are going to compete for shelter and resources. But, they should coexist together with no major issues.


         Thanks a lot! I was just browsing around for info on bumblebee millipedes, and some one said they're not for beginners, as they have a high unexpected die of rate. What does this mean, and should I consider a different millipede for my first? Thanks again for your help!


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## MelissaDBrown (Jul 22, 2013)

I've never heard that they aren't beginner millipedes because of high death rates. My boyfriend has two and they are so pretty. They just molted and the yellow is so bright and seems to get more vibrant with age. They are a very small kind of millipede. I have Chicobolus spinigerus- one adult
Tonkinbolus caudulanus-two adults and one pling and they are really easy to take care. 

Make sure there is plenty of moisture to prevent drying out and mine all seem to love apples and carrots. I give them a calcium powder supplement on top. Besides that, super super easy and they are very friendly and happy.


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## DatMillipede (Jul 22, 2013)

MelissaDBrown said:


> I've never heard that they aren't beginner millipedes because of high death rates. My boyfriend has two and they are so pretty. They just molted and the yellow is so bright and seems to get more vibrant with age. They are a very small kind of millipede. I have Chicobolus spinigerus- one adult
> Tonkinbolus caudulanus-two adults and one pling and they are really easy to take care.
> 
> Make sure there is plenty of moisture to prevent drying out and mine all seem to love apples and carrots. I give them a calcium powder supplement on top. Besides that, super super easy and they are very friendly and happy.


 Thanks! Will the 10 gallon tank be enough for 2 bumblebee millipedes and 4 madagascar hissing cockroaches? I think they are compatible as they come from similar enviroments, (both tropical). However, can someone confirm this. Finally, is bugs in cyber space a reputable dealer? And is his millipede soil mix good? Thanks again.

---------- Post added 07-22-2013 at 12:31 PM ----------

Sorry for the double post, but i have one more question. Are live plants beneficial in any way to the insects? Also, I think I just fell in love with the Death's head cockroach. Are they fine for communal tanks and will they climb? Thanks!


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## MelissaDBrown (Jul 22, 2013)

I don't think the care sheet I sent over had any information about plants. I don't personally use live plants with any of my animals because sometimes they can carry parasites that can be passed on to the animal. I haven't done much research for millipedes, but I know for tarantulas it can cause nematodes and other parasites. You can use live plants, you can even use fake plants. As long as you give your millipedes at least four inches, and you mist the substrate but not the millipede directly, they will be happy and healthy. 

Roaches typically like to climb a bit, burrow, and hang out in a group. They do well together, but be prepared for little ones if you have a bunch together. There are some very beautiful species of cockroaches. I'm not sure if the cave cockroach is the same as the death's head, but they look a lot alike.

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## shebeen (Jul 22, 2013)

A 10 gallon tank is more than large enough for 2 millipedes and 4 Hissers.  Be sure you have a tight fitting lid as the Hissers can climb glass and the nymphs can fit through the smallest of gaps.  A band of petroleum jelly (Vaseline) around the inside of the tank just below the lid can help prevent escapes.  Bumblebee millipedes are fairly hardy; I haven't had any die off problems.  One problem I see with a combined community, however, is that you'll need to do regular removal of cockroach frass from the top of the substrate.


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## DatMillipede (Jul 22, 2013)

Thank you! Excuse me, but what is frass? I'm still relitively new and have a lot to learn.


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## MelissaDBrown (Jul 22, 2013)

I believe it's poop  Just a guess. Speaking of poop, the millipedes can also eat certain substrates so if you happen to hold one you might see it go the bathroom in your hand. It basically looks like a super damp clump of substrate. If the substrate is filled with those you will want to clean out the substrate.


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## DatMillipede (Jul 22, 2013)

MelissaDBrown said:


> I believe it's poop  Just a guess. Speaking of poop, the millipedes can also eat certain substrates so if you happen to hold one you might see it go the bathroom in your hand. It basically looks like a super damp clump of substrate. If the substrate is filled with those you will want to clean out the substrate.


Ok thanks for clearing that up.


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## shebeen (Jul 23, 2013)

Frass is another word for feces (poop).  In my millipede only enclosures, I replace the substrate when it starts to contain 50% frass.  Even then, I only do a partial replacement, leaving some frass in the substrate.  Some keepers seldom replace substrate and instead just add leaf litter and decaying wood to their enclosures, but, eventually, you run out of room.  Frass is an important substrate component for newly hatched millipedes.  They use it as a food source and to culture microbes in their digestive tract needed to break down cellulose.  Adult millipedes will also sometimes eat their droppings as they contain a large amount of undigested plant material.  This behavior of eating ones feces is called "coprophagy". 

I'm not sure what effect cockroach frass in the substrate will have on a colony of millipedes.  It may pose no ill effects at all, or, it may turn out to be detrimental.  Perhaps someone who has tried a mixed community can share their experience.  I have loads of Bumblebees and Hissers and could set up a shared enclosure as an experiment, but it would probably take several months to reach any conclusions.

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## DatMillipede (Jul 23, 2013)

shebeen said:


> Frass is another word for feces (poop).  In my millipede only enclosures, I replace the substrate when it starts to contain 50% frass.  Even then, I only do a partial replacement, leaving some frass in the substrate.  Some keepers seldom replace substrate and instead just add leaf litter and decaying wood to their enclosures, but, eventually, you run out of room.  Frass is an important substrate component for newly hatched millipedes.  They use it as a food source and to culture microbes in their digestive tract needed to break down cellulose.  Adult millipedes will also sometimes eat their droppings as they contain a large amount of undigested plant material.  This behavior of eating ones feces is called "coprophagy". Thanks again, that's good to know!
> 
> I'm not sure what effect cockroach frass in the substrate will have on a colony of millipedes.  It may pose no ill effects at all, or, it may turn out to be detrimental.  Perhaps someone who has tried a mixed community can share their experience.  I have loads of Bumblebees and Hissers and could set up a shared enclosure as an experiment, but it would probably take several months to reach any conclusions.


 Thank you, that's good to know! How are your bumblebee pedes and hissers doing? What kind of setup do you have each of them in?


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## shebeen (Jul 23, 2013)

I keep my millipedes in 16 quart Sterilite tubs with 4 inches of substrate.  The bottom 2 inches is straight coco fiber.  The top 2 inches is 50% coco fiber and 50% decaying oak and oak leaves.  I have eight 1/4" holes in the lids for ventilation.  I mist about once a week.  The tubs reside in my living room.

My Hisser colony is housed in a 30 quart Sterilite tub in the garage.  I use 1 inch of wheat bran for substrate; water crystals for hydration; and, cardboard egg flats and toilet paper tubes for hides.  The lid is vented with aluminum window screen and heat is provided using a heating pad on the side of the tub.  I feed fruits and veggies a couple times a week, with carrots being the most popular.  I replace the wheat bran when it contains 50% frass.

I also have a Hisser display colony of about 2 dozen females in a 12 gallon aquarium.  One inch of coco fiber for substrate; a Mopani log for climbing; and, water crystals for hydration.

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## DatMillipede (Jul 23, 2013)

shebeen said:


> I keep my millipedes in 16 quart Sterilite tubs with 4 inches of substrate.  The bottom 2 inches is straight coco fiber.  The top 2 inches is 50% coco fiber and 50% decaying oak and oak leaves.  I have eight 1/4" holes in the lids for ventilation.  I mist about once a week.  The tubs reside in my living room.
> 
> My Hisser colony is housed in a 30 quart Sterilite tub in the garage.  I use 1 inch of wheat bran for substrate; water crystals for hydration; and, cardboard egg flats and toilet paper tubes for hides.  The lid is vented with aluminum window screen and heat is provided using a heating pad on the side of the tub.  I feed fruits and veggies a couple times a week, with carrots being the most popular.  I replace the wheat bran when it contains 50% frass.
> Thanks a lot! Do you need extra heat for your hissers?
> I also have a Hisser display colony of about 2 dozen females in a 12 gallon aquarium.  One inch of coco fiber for substrate; a Mopani log for climbing; and, water crystals for hydration.


Thanks a lot! Do you need a heat source to keep hissers?


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## MrCrackerpants (Jul 23, 2013)

If you want reproduction you need them in the mid 80's F. 70-80 F is fine for none reproduction.


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## shebeen (Jul 23, 2013)

I find that mine will breed even at lower temperatures.  Perhaps not as much, but it only takes one brood and you've got another 30 Hissers on your hands.


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## MrCrackerpants (Jul 23, 2013)

shebeen said:


> I find that mine will breed even at lower temperatures.  Perhaps not as much, but it only takes one brood and you've got another 30 Hissers on your hands.


Really? I have low reproduction at 77-79 F. Are you talking 70-76 F?


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## Cavedweller (Jul 24, 2013)

My biggest concern would be the possibility that someone freshly molted could get eaten. There was a thread somewhat recently in which someone got their African giant black millipede to eat a freshly molted roach (though it took a bit of coaxing I recall)

10 gallons would be insanely large for bumblebee pedes, and you would very rarely see your pets. To give you an idea of how big that would be, I think a good minimum guide to go by for a small/medium population is Length/Width/Depth of 3Lx2Lx2L (L being the length of the biggest pede). Since bumblebee pedes are about 2 inches, you could house them in a 4x8x4 inch tank.


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## shebeen (Jul 25, 2013)

MrCrackerpants said:


> Really? I have low reproduction at 77-79 F. Are you talking 70-76 F?


Yes.  My display tank is unheated and rarely ever gets over 76F, yet, I've had it produce 2 broods.  I intended it to only house females but a male slipped by me when I was populating it.  Now that I think about it, it may also be the case that some of the females were already gravid.  So, they may not breed readily at lower temps, but lower temps don't seem to prevent a gravid female from producing a brood.


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## MrCrackerpants (Jul 25, 2013)

shebeen said:


> Yes.  My display tank is unheated and rarely ever gets over 76F, yet, I've had it produce 2 broods.  I intended it to only house females but a male slipped by me when I was populating it.  Now that I think about it, it may also be the case that some of the females were already gravid.  So, they may not breed readily at lower temps, but lower temps don't seem to prevent a gravid female from producing a brood.


Could be. Maybe different strains within a species are able to reproduce at a little lower temperature. Thanks.


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