# The BEAST that is A. geniculata - sizes



## Sharno (Mar 25, 2015)

Hi all,

I absolutely am loving A. geniculata after having tons of slings and juvies.  I mostly dabble in smaller tarantulas and trade them when they get bigger, but aside from popular Brachypelmas, I've really taken a shine to these beauties.

My question is this -- when you see them sold at about 4.5 inches, that's still many years from full size, correct? I am assuming they are like my adult brachys and if I am lucky molt one time a year.  I have read the leg span for mature A. geniculata can be 7 to 9 inches. Unless they are doubling in size at molt, is it safe to say that anything under 5 inches is still a teenager -- or, I mean, at least three molts from mature - ie, 3-4 years?  

Thanks.
Sharon


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## gobey (Mar 25, 2015)

If I'm not mistaken they grow much quicker than a Brachypelma and also have a shorter lifespan.

Comparable to LP growth rates, size, appetite and lifespan.

Only genics are more colorful. 

7 inches is probably a reasonable expectation in size.

8 inches is a really big one.

9 inches was a fairytale used to sell you a spider.


Disclaimer: I am not an expert. Lol

Reactions: Like 1


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## pyro fiend (Mar 25, 2015)

Yes and no? It depends on your temps, how much she eats what size your feeders are.. Alot goes into this...i got my fm A. genic at 1.5 almost 2" and in under a yr shes about 5"+ (forgot what her last molt measured)  and is a female molting i think every 3 months now... Males typically grow much faster to mature out first.. I believe 7-8 is fairly possibly.. But 9? Well lets just say id need a pic by a ruler to believe that one.. 

In my experience with my gitl she put on about 1/2" per molt after 1" which is about normal for bigger Ts it seems..

4.5" is a sub adult im pretty sure if female it COULD breed at 5".. But not recomended and also could be a small MatureMale(5" not 4.5) so id clasify sub adult unless hooked out.. But i woudlnt exatly say 4yrs from full size its no brachy or grammy they grow fast

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## AphonopelmaTX (Mar 25, 2015)

gobey said:


> If I'm not mistaken they grow much quicker than a Brachypelma and also have a shorter lifespan.
> 
> Comparable to LP growth rates, size, appetite and lifespan.
> 
> ...


Don't sell yourself short. This is spot on.

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## gobey (Mar 25, 2015)

AphonopelmaTX said:


> Don't sell yourself short. This is spot on.


I read a lot. And I'm on here a lot.

That's all it takes 

But expert still I'm not lol.

I'm only about 10 months into this hobby and I don't own that species. So it feels weird to come in and say "THIS IS THE TRUTH! Trust me I don't even have one!"

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## Poec54 (Mar 26, 2015)

I've got an adult female who had no interest in breeding at 7", but after shedding and approaching 8" she suddenly discovered romance.  That tells me it's a big species.

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## AphonopelmaTX (Mar 26, 2015)

gobey said:


> I'm only about 10 months into this hobby and I don't own that species. So it feels weird to come in and say "THIS IS THE TRUTH! Trust me I don't even have one!"


When I replied to your post, I didn't even realize that you were talking about A. geniculata specifically.  As the years go by and you acquire more species of the South American giant species, you will start to see that
generalizations can be made fairly accurately but there will always be exceptions.  That's why I said you were "spot on."  Even with Theraphosa species 8 inch and 9 inch specimens are rare, but they do get that big. The 8 and 9
inchers I have had (and still have) were captive born and raised with the best care by their previous owners and were able to get to that size.

If only I knew back when I was new to tarantulas how rare 8 and 9 inch tarantulas actually are, I could have saved myself a lot of money.


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## gobey (Mar 26, 2015)

AphonopelmaTX said:


> When I replied to your post, I didn't even realize that you were talking about A. geniculata specifically.  As the years go by and you acquire more species of the South American giant species, you will start to see that
> generalizations can be made fairly accurately but there will always be exceptions.  That's why I said you were "spot on."  Even with Theraphosa species 8 inch and 9 inch specimens are rare, but they do get that big. The 8 and 9
> inchers I have had (and still have) were captive born and raised with the best care by their previous owners and were able to get to that size.
> 
> If only I knew back when I was new to tarantulas how rare 8 and 9 inch tarantulas actually are, I could have saved myself a lot of money.


I bought 2 LPs with the promise of 9 or 10 inch spiders....

Poec here first gave me my dose of truth.

Now I know better.

And honestly I don't care. A 7 inch spider is a sight to see anyways.

I'm happy enough my remaining LP has a,great personality. Sadly her big brother passed after molting. He was a really entertaining tarantula!

If I were to get another to replace that one... I'd have to go the geniculata route. I looked at Pamphobetus... But boy they are pricey.

But I'm pretty good on tarantulas for now.

We'll see how big the LP gets. She grows slower than her sac mate did. Hence I suspect he was male and she appears female.


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## Poec54 (Mar 26, 2015)

AphonopelmaTX said:


> Even with Theraphosa species 8 inch and 9 inch specimens are rare, but they do get that big. The 8 and 9
> inchers I have had (and still have) were captive born and raised with the best care by their previous owners and were able to get to that size.



8" Theraphosa rare???  I don't know what you've seen, but with a local reptile dealer I've seen, and have, a number of w/c stirmi, and 9-10" is the norm for adults.  I wouldn't put too much faith in 'captive born getting the best care' and producing the biggest sizes.  In the wild they get a far more varied diet, undoubtedly with more nutrients.

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## shawno821 (Mar 26, 2015)

gobey said:


> I looked at Pamphobetus... But boy they are pricey.
> 
> Worth every penny. Absolute bulldogs when they hit prey.I love all of mine.Maybe not a super colorful bug,but personality lasts longer than a pretty face.


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## Poec54 (Mar 26, 2015)

shawno821 said:


> gobey said:
> 
> 
> > I looked at Pamphobetus... But boy they are pricey.
> ...


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## shawno821 (Mar 26, 2015)

Poec54 said:


> shawno821 said:
> 
> 
> > Pamphos are_ great _spiders and deserve to be much more common in the hobby.  Phormics are similar in many regards.
> ...


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## gobey (Mar 26, 2015)

Poec54 said:


> shawno821 said:
> 
> 
> > Pamphos are_ great _spiders and deserve to be much more common in the hobby.  Phormics are similar in many regards.
> ...


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## shawno821 (Mar 26, 2015)

gobey said:


> Poec54 said:
> 
> 
> > How fast do they grow?
> ...

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## AphonopelmaTX (Mar 26, 2015)

Poec54 said:


> 8" Theraphosa rare???  I don't know what you've seen, but with a local reptile dealer I've seen, and have, a number of w/c stirmi, and 9-10" is the norm for adults.  I wouldn't put too much faith in 'captive born getting the best care' and producing the biggest sizes.  In the wild they get a far more varied diet, undoubtedly with more nutrients.


I didn't say providing the best care produces the biggest sizes for all especially when "best care" is highly subjective.  Just the T. stirmi and T. apophysis I have were kept with the intention to produce the largest size possible.  The methods in which the two individuals kept the those spiders to reach their huge sizes may not constitute "best care" by some, but to me it is.  If you want more details, let me know in a PM.

All of the wild caught T. stirmi I have seen on the pet trade have been around the 7 inch mark and really didn't get much bigger in my care.  If the reptile dealer you know regularly imports 9-10 inch T. stirmi, send me the contact info so I can see about acquiring a few of those.


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## Tfisher (Mar 26, 2015)

They do get quite large (the back leg was fully stretched to the start but he moved it before I could snap a pic) 


View attachment 135413
View attachment 135414


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## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (Mar 26, 2015)

Tfisher said:


> They do get quite large (the back leg was fully stretched to the start but he moved it before I could snap a pic)
> 
> 
> View attachment 135413
> View attachment 135414


 Ah mature male photo, I have never been a big fan on how some people measure their spiders the way you did to me is a little mis leading. I know it's just my opinion. Also a clear photo of your mature male would be great, Am I correct that is a mature male?


Jose


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## Poec54 (Mar 26, 2015)

jose said:


> Ah mature male photo, I have never been a big fan on how some people measure their spiders the way you did to me is a little mis leading. I know it's just my opinion. Also a clear photo of your mature male would be great, Am I correct that is a mature male?


It has to be with those skinny legs.


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## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (Mar 26, 2015)

Yeah, I think he is a mature male. Hey Rick how is it going?


Jose


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## Tfisher (Mar 26, 2015)

jose said:


> Ah mature male photo, I have never been a big fan on how some people measure their spiders the way you did to me is a little mis leading. I know it's just my opinion. Also a clear photo of your mature male would be great, Am I correct that is a mature male?
> 
> 
> Jose


it was clear but every time I load pics they get blurry. Yes this is the mature male.


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## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (Mar 26, 2015)

Tfisher said:


> it was clear but every time I load pics they get blurry. Yes this is the mature male.


 Gotcha! I was also trying to determine wether it was in fact a geniculata or brocklehursti. That's all!


Jose


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## pyro fiend (Mar 27, 2015)

jose said:


> Ah mature male photo, I have never been a big fan on how some people measure their spiders the way you did to me is a little mis leading. I know it's just my opinion. Also a clear photo of your mature male would be great, Am I correct that is a mature male?
> 
> 
> Jose


Misleading? Ima guess because it seems hes starting at 2 and not 0?
Because i agree if thats the case xp could gove a newbie super high hopes lol


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## Tfisher (Mar 27, 2015)

Like I said his foot was at zero then he moved before I got a pic. It's deff geniculata.


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## Blueandbluer (Mar 27, 2015)

pyro fiend said:


> Misleading? Ima guess because it seems hes starting at 2 and not 0?
> Because i agree if thats the case xp could gove a newbie super high hopes lol


I think misleading because the measurement's gonna vary depending upon leg position.


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## pyro fiend (Mar 27, 2015)

Blueandbluer said:


> I think misleading because the measurement's gonna vary depending upon leg position.


But from my understanding your supposed to do it from the best/lingest position diagnal anywho  which is kinda what he did.. But it moved.. Maybe he ment because MM's are super leggy and not all hit that size? -shrug- well find out when jose is backon xD

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## shawno821 (Mar 27, 2015)

I think it's a little misleading because MM's front legs get long after their ultimate molt,to hold back the female.It's still a big bug,but it's hard to get an accurate measurement on a living spider.


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## AphonopelmaTX (Mar 27, 2015)

Blueandbluer said:


> I think misleading because the measurement's gonna vary depending upon leg position.


This is how I have just about always received tarantulas smaller than the advertised legspan even when there is a picture like the one above with the live tarantula next to a ruler.  When I have received tarantulas advertised as 8 inches or more with the live spider on top of a ruler, it then molts in my care, I measure the molt, and find there is no way it was the advertised size.  In my opinion, the only sure way to get an acurate legspan measurement is by the molt or a dead specimen where you can extend the legs to their full length.


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## pyro fiend (Mar 27, 2015)

AphonopelmaTX said:


> This is how I have just about always received tarantulas smaller than the advertised legspan even when there is a picture like the one above with the live tarantula next to a ruler.  When I have received tarantulas advertised as 8 inches or more with the live spider on top of a ruler, it then molts in my care, I measure the molt, and find there is no way it was the advertised size.  In my opinion, the only sure way to get an acurate legspan measurement is by the molt or a dead specimen where you can extend the legs to their full length.


+1 this is the only way i legitly my T sizes..  

But to be fair a big name seller who has 1000 slings may not still have that one guys molt to measure.. And sometimes with some Ts they molt and you never know..or like my nhadu molted and shoved. Her exo all the way in the back of her enclosure.. So i can only go off of what i see when shes on the wall (still round down tho lol) but iv also had a biehmei molt and i thought my eyes where playing with me..  Nope molted hid molt in a tunnel then i found a few molt peices 4 weeks later when black and shiny and cleaned tunnel out (helm and a leg or two) and idk about you but i wouldnt be too happy on "0.0.1 boehmei unsure of size last molt i had was X" but has molted maybe 2 times sence then" as we know theyl want 2" price ;P


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## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (Mar 27, 2015)

When I say misleading is I have never liked when the opposite legs of the spiders are being measured, front right leg and back left leg from example photo from post #16. I measure mine front right leg and back right leg. This measurements has been done since the 90's. Measuring the spider like on post #16 gives the spider a little bit of a bigger size than what I belive it really is. 
Now posting a photo of a mature male is ok as we know that mature males do mature in different sizes but taking a photo of a big female would be a better accurate of the actual size of the Genus and species since the female has a longer life span. This is just my opinion though.


Jose

---------- Post added 03-27-2015 at 08:40 PM ----------




AphonopelmaTX said:


> This is how I have just about always received tarantulas smaller than the advertised legspan even when there is a picture like the one above with the live tarantula next to a ruler.  When I have received tarantulas advertised as 8 inches or more with the live spider on top of a ruler, it then molts in my care, I measure the molt, and find there is no way it was the advertised size.  In my opinion, the only sure way to get an acurate legspan measurement is by the molt or a dead specimen where you can extend the legs to their full length.


 Agree with a molt or a dead specimen.


Jose


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## ArachnoFreak666 (Mar 28, 2015)

this is kinda funny that this post compared brachypelma and geniculata growth rates to eachother because both my A. genic and B. smithi seem to be on the same molting cycle. what i mean, is that four months ago (november) both my A. genic and B. smithi molted 2 days apart from each other. and now four months later (late march), they are both in very heavy premolt and are about to pop anyday. i know some people are probably thinking "oh well one probably went into premolt first, then followed by the other, and one will take loner". well actually they both had their abdomen blacken on the same exact day and both started to refuse food before that on the same exact day. now as far as who will molt first.... wont know until it happens. but ill tell you what, if they both flip over at the same time, im going to oop: myself.


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## pyro fiend (Mar 28, 2015)

ArachnoFreak666 said:


> this is kinda funny that this post compared brachypelma and geniculata growth rates to eachother because both my A. genic and B. smithi seem to be on the same molting cycle. what i mean, is that four months ago (november) both my A. genic and B. smithi molted 2 days apart from each other. and now four months later (late march), they are both in very heavy premolt and are about to pop anyday. i know some people are probably thinking "oh well one probably went into premolt first, then followed by the other, and one will take loner". well actually they both had their abdomen blacken on the same exact day and both started to refuse food before that on the same exact day. now as far as who will molt first.... wont know until it happens. but ill tell you what, if they both flip over at the same time, im going to shit myself.


But the real question is hiw BIG is the specimen we are refering to? Because if fed acording to hiw quickly they digest genics will outgrow a smithi any day, and i do have a very quick growing smithi and boehmei myself. But my genic takes the cage in size

Also saying they refused to be on the same day doesn't necessarily go in your favor because whos to say if you was to try to feed one day prior the Smithi it would have redused.. so what you suggest you would have to feed every day and order the accurately know when the specimen was refusing food


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## Poec54 (Mar 28, 2015)

jose said:


> When I say misleading is I have never liked when the opposite legs of the spiders are being measured, front right leg and back left leg from example photo from post #16. I measure mine front right leg and back right leg. This measurements has been done since the 90's.


That's how I used to do it in the 1990's too.  I think it makes more sense.  But since the hobby in the US uses DLS, that's what I use now too, for simplicity.


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## Blueandbluer (Mar 28, 2015)

Poec54 said:


> That's how I used to do it in the 1990's too.  I think it makes more sense.  But since the bobby in the US uses DLS, that's what I use now too, for simplicity.


DLS = Diagonal Leg Spread? Just guessing, but it would seem to follow. 

And... who is Bobby?


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## Tim Benzedrine (Mar 28, 2015)

Close. "Diagonal Leg Span." At least that's how I always construed it.


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## Blueandbluer (Mar 28, 2015)

Oh well, that'd make more sense.


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