# Need help with Madagascar Hissing Cockroaches



## lunarae (Feb 18, 2016)

I'm looking for advice on my setup, as well as input on if I have pregnant females or not, along with any insight to what's wrong with one of my females. I'll explain everything accordingly below.

*First off:*
I've read a lot about various opinions on if Madagascar Hissing Cockroaches work well as feeders or not. For my personal situation I believe they will work fine, We only have one T and I plan on feeding it the younger ones rather then any full adults. Extra adults I plan on giving to my friend to feed their adult bearded dragon.

Anyways, I've done a lot of research and there's so many opinions out there it can be hard to really sift through them and find the middle ground. Either way, here is the setup that I have currently as I feel that is important to know for anyone trying to help me:

*10 gallon clear ziploc tub*, 4 squares cut out of the lid that are roughly 3inx3in with mesh hot glued to help with airflow/ventilation, Vaseline around top rim of the container just in case. 





*Simple Cat Food Dish* with crushed up dog food, cichlid pellet food, cricket food mix (Just gave them that today, picture below is of just dog food). I put lettuce in there two days ago and they took that rather well but removed it as it started to wither and rot. This was before I had added substrate to help with humidity. (Oh! And the dog food is what we feed our pup, which is kirkland premium lamb mix that you can get from costco.)

*Eco Earth substrate* I was having problems with it holding any humidity even after covering some of the vents so added the dirt to help hold the humidity in. It's a temporary fix until I can find more information on how to better hold humidity. Any suggestions on this are welcome as I'd rather go no substrate. I live in Montana and up in this altitude it's rather dry. I have been misting it occasionally but I'm looking for a solution so I don't have to bother them to much as I know they like to be left alone.

*Egg Crates*, I have several egg crates I got from petco that they had left over from their cricket shipments for them to hide under and crawl onto.





*Human Heating Pad*, Currently I'm using one that has three settings, I keep it on low. However it's on a 2 hour timer. I found that CVS sells one that doesn't have a timer that I'm going tomorrow to buy. I was very apprehensive of trying to get any of the reptile zoo med ones that stick to the container since this container is plastic. For our set up it seems safest to go with a human heating pad kept on low to avoid any fire hazards.

*Cabinet/Dresser*, This is the best way to describe this furniture item I have. I know it has a name I just don't know what that name is. (If you know please comment!) Basically it's like a dresser, it has a draw at the top, then two at the bottom, but in the center it's an open cabinet. Very spacious, the container sits in there nicely, it's all hardwood and it's nice and dark inside with the doors shut so they are kept in a dark place despite being in a clear container.






Now that's out of the way, here's my problem. I have a female that just does not look to be in good shape at all. I got these guys from rainbowmealworms.com just under a week ago. I added the ecoearth substrate about 2 days ago to help with the humidity. The house itself stays at the very least 75 because I can't take the cold myself and even 75 feels cold to me. I am not on top of keeping that heating pad ever 2 hours going, which is why I'm buying one without that time limit tomorrow. While I know that 75 isn't good for breeding I've read that they can manage and live just fine in that temperature.

When I first got the 11 total one of the males died either that day or the next. Wasn't sure if he was molting so left him alone over night. He was showing similar signs as this female, lathargic as it were, he was also missing most of his front two legs which I felt was probably a big issue for him. So I wasn't surprised to see him go. This one however seemed to be doing fine but now is showing signs of having an issue as far as I can tell. I did a video to show the behavior and help show how huge and round she is. I can't tell if she's pregnant or if she's having a horrible time trying to molt or what. She's been like this far as I can tell all day today. Here's the video:






Here are some still shots of her to make it easier to really examine what's going on. I realize I did not do the best of jobs holding my phone still or it focusing.















I'm really not sure what's going on. Any helpful info would be great. I realize handling it while it's having issues probably isn't best for it. But I had to in order to really show what was going on so people could better answer my questions. If she dies as a result at least I'll have answers now and know what to avoid in the future or know what I can do to help any future ones that have similar issues.

On another subject I'm trying to figure out if other females I have are already pregnant. Here's a few photos, any opinions would be welcome.















I took all of these with my phone and some of the females seemed to have more distinguished bumps, I had to tell they were female by the underbelly bottom segments when I got them. The last picture I can't recall if it was male or female but considering it has a big belly I wanna go female. Most the males were rather thin.

However sizes of the ones in the pictures were about 2 1/2inches if that helps in trying to determine if they're even fully adult yet or not. I've done my research but size seems to vary. I do believe these are the standard and most common breed of the hissing cockroaches. You can't rightly tell their size by my hands cause I have small hands. So they'd look big by comparison regardless I think.

Anyways, like I said I'm working on a better heat source tomorrow. Any suggestions on how to help humidity in a way where I have to disturb them as little as possible that doesn't require substrate are more then welcome. I'm very new to these guys and despite all my reading still feel very in the dark on what to expect, so please keep that in mind when criticizing. I can take constructive criticism and advice but please if you see I'm doing something wrong don't be rude about it. Let me know by all means so I can do better, but be intelligent and informative with it.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Hisserdude (Feb 18, 2016)

Ooh, long post! 

I have the exact cage brand you chose, Ziplock, foam around the edges of the lid, etc. Great choice of caging.
Your setups sounds great, so does the diet. Don't worry so much about the humidity, these guys like it relatively dry. Just keep one corner moist and you should be good. 

If you can get a Zoo med heat cable and put that under half of your enclosure that would be great, I keep mine plugged in all day and unplug it at night. It keeps the cage warm and does not melt plastic.

Ooh, yikes, don't quite know what's wrong with your female there. Almost looks like she tried to molt and it went wrong, but she looks like an adult. Whatever it is, it does not look like she is going to recover. In the off chance it is contagious, which I seriously doubt, I would remove her from the others and quarantine her. 

Hmm, I don't know if there is a good way to tell if a female is preggers or not, in any case they certainly look plump, and they seem mature. If there are males in with them, it would be safe to assume they are all pregnant, so expect babies! 

Hope this helped a bit, and I hope none of your other hissers get sick.


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## lunarae (Feb 18, 2016)

Thank you for the reply. I will put her in the container they came in and see what happens. I was thinking bad molt as well cause she kept trying to stretch out and expand and then squish back in to herself (Something I should've put in the description but forgot to), I didn't get it on film but she had done that earlier today. But she didn't seem to have any luck what so ever. I do have males. I had gotten 5 female and 5 male. Though some of the males seem adolecent and not adults yet. Either way thanks for the input. And letting me know about the humidity. If that's the case I can get rid of the substrate. I really wanted to avoid it if possible. Suppose that'll be something else to do tomorrow when I get the heat pad thingy XD


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## Dark (Feb 18, 2016)

Hello Lunarae,

First off it seems like you're doing a great job and you seem to care quite a bit for them despite only having them for food. Don't be afraid to love your roaches as much as you love your tarantula, roaches are awesome! As Hisserdude said, substrate is optional and humidity isn't that important (or at least in my experience). The only critique I have on your setup is using the moist napkin / paper towel as a source of hydration. People tend to avoid doing that because of the risk of it growing bacteria that may or may not be harmful if left in there for too long. I recommend ordering some water gel crystals (inexpensively found from various sources online), you follow the instructions on the container and add water and within 8 hours you got a ton of water jello you can fill the water dish with. It's great because they can eat it and become hydrated without the risk of drowning (which is an issue with nymphs and shallow water). You also don't need that much of it to insure they have a constant source of water, a shot glass worth should be more than plenty for as long as the crystals stay clear and don't dry out. I usually replace them when they get yellow from being crapped on / there is visible waste all around it.

As for the female, she doesn't look too healthy and might be trying to molt post adulthood (which rarely goes well). I'd quarantine her like Hisserdude said and maybe she'll turn out okay. She definitely looks pregnant (as she is very round) but due to her situation she might not live long enough to have any kids. It is likely that all the females in the container are either pregnant or soon to be pregnant. People typically call pregnant invertebrates "gravid", so I'd say they're all probably gravid. Males and females can be mature and not reach the typical "norm" size, some will be huge while others might be a bit smaller. Usually it seems that nymphs and immature individuals are flatter overall and have varying coloration than their matured counterparts.

With regards to heating pads, I would think a heating pad for adults without a timer might be more dangerous because they don't expect you to leave them on all the time and not be actively in the vicinity while using them. I am very wary of heating implements and just keep my roaches at room temperature (which in my room is usually 69 - 72 degrees Fahrenheit). At 75 degrees they seem quite active and even at the temperature they are at now they are still breeding (although extremely slowly).

Overall you seem to be off to a good start. There are lots of different opinions on what the proper husbandry is for these guys (and all other pets really) and really it comes down to what works best for you. There are of course certain guidelines that are best to follow, like keeping food, hydration and hiding spots readily available, but otherwise the roaches are hardy enough to handle most situations.

Good luck!

Eric

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## RolliePollie (Feb 18, 2016)

Ditto on the water gel crystals. I used orchid bark for my substrate. Also, I grind the food which I find is better received. Sometimes I'll take a bottle cap put a couple pieces of dog food nuggets in it and add water. It gets mushy and they like it. My roach feed is 2# cat food + 2# dog food, 1 fish food flakes jar + 2# oatmeal=grind and feed. I buy all of it from the dollar store. This feeds my dubias and hissers.


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## lunarae (Feb 18, 2016)

Thank you for the response Darkpredator. I do care about them even though they're supposed to be feeders, to me they're still living creatures and deserve a good standard of living. Thank you for the information on the paper towel. I'll be sure to switch it out.

Here I'll note, I am a mother of a young one still in diapers. I had started a little experiment with using an unused diaper. Filled it with water and took out all the gel. It's technically the same stuff looking up all the names and such. I had a set of crickets I got. Most cricket seemed to die out rather quickly here even though I provided water and food, the water dish was a sponge type thing but it didn't really hold water it just kept the crickets from drowning. I used the mix I had made to see how they would take to it and if it would work or not. Our T had stopped taking food and was getting ready to molt. They stayed hydrated just fine and lived to be adults rather then dying off like the batches I had prior (I'd only get like 5-10 at a time to keep in a small cricket container, I don't plan to ever try and breed crickets).

Regardless they are happy healthy adults now. Chirping away with no ill effects, like I said they seem healthier then before and because they're diapers and for babies they don't have any harsh chemicals and such in them. Least not the ones I get. For me this is a cheaper alternative as we already have the diapers and one diaper can make a fair amount that'd last a long time. I just went with the paper towel as it seemed like it would be less messy and easier to switch out. On that though from the perspective of bacteria growth, wouldn't the problem still be presentable for the gels just as much as the paper towel? If not more so if the gels last longer then the paper towel before it gets switched out? I'm not sure which is why I'm asking, it's just something that came to mind. I suppose perhaps the gels hold no room within it's structure where as the paper towel does?

As for the heat source. I read several different places that a human heating pad set on low isn't a fire hazard as long as it's set on the appropriate surface which here it'd be hard wood (I'm also going to put a cookie cooling rack under it and set it up on that to ensure it's got space under the pad for heat to escape just in case), no different then from a reptile heating pad. I plan to turn it off at night as well. The reason I went ahead and went this way was because then it's not permanently connected to the container so if where I set it changes it's more versatile and it can be used for other means such as a pulled muscle or some such. I'm very big into multi-use for things if it's available. I like to have lots of options to choose from.

I haven't checked her yet today. I went to the store and got the heating pad, ate some food. If she's still alive I may try and help her 'molt'. I think the top just didn't split and that's what's causing her severe issues. If I can I want to try and save her or at least whatever offspring she might have. We will see. If nothing else it'll be a learning experience. I realize under normal circumstances it's important to leave things alone when they molt.

Oh question though for future knowledge. What's the longest it should take for them to molt? Anyone know?


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## lunarae (Feb 18, 2016)

RolliePollie said:


> Ditto on the water gel crystals. I used orchid bark for my substrate. Also, I grind the food which I find is better received. Sometimes I'll take a bottle cap put a couple pieces of dog food nuggets in it and add water. It gets mushy and they like it. My roach feed is 2# cat food + 2# dog food, 1 fish food flakes jar + 2# oatmeal=grind and feed. I buy all of it from the dollar store. This feeds my dubias and hissers.


Thanks for the roach feed recipe. I may add oatmeal to the mix as I have that from the mealworms I have been taking care of. I'm probably going to discontinue doing them though, least once I get the hissers established. I've been feeding Sarah the beetles between crickets now that she's big enough for them. But once I get nymphs going she'll get to have those and I think those will be much better for her long term. Once I go through the cichlid pellets I may move to fish flakes, our pleco kinda ate all the other fish. We had two oscars and some platy's but I think the oscars finally got big enough to think they could eat the platy's and choked on them, and from there the pleco ate it. Then my son got a hold of the fish food and decided that a they needed a bunch and I didn't catch it until that evening when it was to late to try and get it out, it was all mush and just dissolved into the water and so we had the other fish die before I could get it really cleaned out and the water fixed. Now it's just a pleco in a 20 gallon tank playing king of the world.


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## Hisserdude (Feb 18, 2016)

"Helping" an invertebrate molt is something that a lot of keepers want to do, but in the end you will probably cause more damage than good. It's always best to just let nature take it's course, she does look like she tried to molt post-adulthood, like @Darkpredator said, which means she is not going to make it.  Don't know why some roaches do that.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## lunarae (Feb 18, 2016)

Well if she was pregnant when she tried to do that. Looking at how big she is, if she's going to die anyways, would carefully cutting her open and letting the offspring out (If they are there) be worth the effort? I mean do you think there's a chance there could be something salvaged from the incident?


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## Dark (Feb 18, 2016)

I don't really have a scientific answer for the bacteria growth on paper towels vs growing on crystal gel but I'd imagine it has something to do with paper towels texture / physical properties. I don't know exactly what they use in diapers but you can get 8 gallons of water crystals (8 oz of the crystals pre-hydrated) for 7 dollars online (including shipping). Personally I wouldn't risk using the diapers in the off chance that there are harmless-to-human but dangerous-to-bug chemicals inside of it but that's entirely up to you. Also as Hisserdude said,  you definitely don't want to try and "help" it molt. There are VERY rare circumstances in which a person should try and help an invertebrate molt and usually at that point it's just a last ditch effort on an already lost cause. Had the roach been already out of it's previous shell and stuck for a day and still had been showing signs of life, then intervention might make sense. Right now it's only speculation that it's stuck in a molt and you might very well just squash / kill it instantly by trying to pry off it's skin. It'll either recover and give birth, recover and not give birth, give birth and die, or just die but leaving it alone is your best option.

Eric

Reactions: Agree 1


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## lunarae (Feb 18, 2016)

Mkay *nods* yeah I realize trying to 'help' with a molt is a bad idea and chances are if it can't molt on it's own it's not going to survive even with help but I think that's part of being human, always having that hope that 'this case might be different'. lol. As for the bacteria thing I could see the physical properties putting into play for it *nods* The diapers don't have any chemicals. Least none that's listed (hard to trust anything these days). But you said 8 oz for 7 dollars thats including shipping? Where would that be? Any link I could check out? The one down fall of using from the diapers is the cotton inlay with it gets mixed in and that makes for a bit of a mess and would provide the same issue as the paper towel. If I can find the gel somewhere that's affordable and cheap it's something I'm willing to look into. I just can't afford to go spend 20 dollars at a time and then shipping on top of that. Shipping costs are such a pain in the....backside >.>

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## Hisserdude (Feb 18, 2016)

lunarae said:


> Well if she was pregnant when she tried to do that. Looking at how big she is, if she's going to die anyways, would carefully cutting her open and letting the offspring out (If they are there) be worth the effort? I mean do you think there's a chance there could be something salvaged from the incident?


No, unless she was already about to give birth, there would be nothing to salvage, sorry.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## lunarae (Feb 18, 2016)

Well she's still surprisingly alive. I'm leaving her be with some food and water easily accessable. We will see. I'll keep updating on her condition. I took out the substrate, so got the set up a lot better. The heating pad set to low barely puts out a whole lot of heat. Just enough to warm it a few degrees, it doesn't even get hot so no worry on the fire hazard as long as it's on low. ^.^ Thank you again everyone for answering questions and giving me such helpful advice.

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## lunarae (Feb 19, 2016)

So today I took a closer look and her coloring had changed, darkened a bit. She was dried out as well, a layer of her shell cracked and peeling it some it showed another underneath. She had molted and then it hardened because she didn't make it out. I put her in the freezer so she could pass sooner rather then later and a bit less painfully rather then draw it out.


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## Hisserdude (Feb 19, 2016)

lunarae said:


> So today I took a closer look and her coloring had changed, darkened a bit. She was dried out as well, a layer of her shell cracked and peeling it some it showed another underneath. She had molted and then it hardened because she didn't make it out. I put her in the freezer so she could pass sooner rather then later and a bit less painfully rather then draw it out.


Aww man, sorry to hear that.  I sincerely hope none of your other hissers meet the same fate.


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## lunarae (Feb 19, 2016)

The others seem happy and healthy. I am hoping they don't have the same problems as well. I wish there was information on what can cause them to molt post adulthood so I could try and prevent it but so far haven't found any info on it. I do have one male that makes me giggle just a little bit. They all hunker down with the egg crates whenever I check on them. But one keeps his head tucked down in one of the egg crevices, he's smaller, possibly not full grown yet, so it's impossible to get him out of there. He's like an ostrich with it's head in the sand. Every time I look at them he bunkers down like that. All the others will hold on and try and hide somewhat like that but can be coaxed out or dart off some, but this one male wont move or budge an inch. And he gives off a big hissing fit as well. I don't bother him much but I do find it sorta funny cause he does act differently from the rest because of it.

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## Hisserdude (Feb 19, 2016)

lunarae said:


> The others seem happy and healthy. I am hoping they don't have the same problems as well. I wish there was information on what can cause them to molt post adulthood so I could try and prevent it but so far haven't found any info on it. I do have one male that makes me giggle just a little bit. They all hunker down with the egg crates whenever I check on them. But one keeps his head tucked down in one of the egg crevices, he's smaller, possibly not full grown yet, so it's impossible to get him out of there. He's like an ostrich with it's head in the sand. Every time I look at them he bunkers down like that. All the others will hold on and try and hide somewhat like that but can be coaxed out or dart off some, but this one male wont move or budge an inch. And he gives off a big hissing fit as well. I don't bother him much but I do find it sorta funny cause he does act differently from the rest because of it.


Well that's good. I don't know if there is any way to prevent it, it seems to be an extremely rare condition. It really shouldn't happen to any others.

That's funny, I love how hissers all seem to have different personalities, it makes them very fun to keep!


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## lunarae (Feb 19, 2016)

Lol. Yes. I suspect any critters we have in our home is going to have a personality. Our T can be rather ornary at times. When I went to put her in her new enclosure I used some tweezers to guide her gently and she decided to instead turn around, climb up onto the tweezers and up onto me rather then explore her new home. She tends to always do that though. Any time it comes to trying to 'guide' her anywhere she does that. I think it's specifically because she knows I try to avoid handling her to much because I don't want to risk her injury or my own >.> She's not aggressive at all she just loves to explore and well be a pain in the ass XD.

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## MWAInverts (Feb 19, 2016)

Lol yeah roaches are a ton of fun to keep and handle. Sorry to hear about your recent loss!


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## lunarae (Feb 19, 2016)

MWAInverts said:


> Lol yeah roaches are a ton of fun to keep and handle. Sorry to hear about your recent loss!


Thanks. Least she's outta her misery now.


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