# Need advice-possible bad/wet molt



## robc (Sep 8, 2008)

My P.regalis female just molted i watched the whole thing and have pics but her abdomen looks funny?? There was a creamish tan liquid on the molt and on her abdomen, is this a wet molt??? Only her abdomen looks wierd....or is it just me?? any advice would be very appreciated.....rob

Pic:


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## MVDaniel (Sep 8, 2008)

I'm not familiar with the term "wet molt" could you explain a little?


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## robc (Sep 8, 2008)

MVDaniel said:


> I'm not familiar with the term "wet molt" could you explain a little?


No one knows much about them:

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=129175&highlight=molt


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## robc (Sep 8, 2008)

*She did turn over by herself:*


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## equuskat (Sep 8, 2008)

Oh wow, that doesn't look good.  I don't know how to deal with this problem, either.


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## robc (Sep 8, 2008)

Katy_green said:


> Oh wow, that doesn't look good.  I don't know how to deal with this problem, either.


This realy sucks, I have a MM waiting for her or ws waiting for her


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## robc (Sep 8, 2008)

*Well this I guess is a good sign:*


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## Remigius (Sep 8, 2008)

fingers crossed for her. I don't know anything about such molt problems either, but I too think it's starting to at least look better. 

kg.
Thomas


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## wsimms (Sep 8, 2008)

Dude, she looks like the Pillsbury Dough Boy.  Bake her at 350 for 15 minutes before serving.

Seriously, she looks a lot better in the later pictures.  Maybe she just had a BM before all the plumbing got separated.


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## Moltar (Sep 8, 2008)

That doesn't look quite like other pics I've seen of "wet molts". It looks almost like her abdomen was encased in some sort of membrane that should have split off during the molt but didn't. I'm glad to see she's looking better now.

Is she also having problems w/ the front legs or is that light coloration i'm seeing just a trick of the flash?


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## Veneficus (Sep 8, 2008)

The first pictures looked like a wet molt, but she looks better in the latter pictures.  Ryan just lost a P. metallica to a wet molt, he would know better.


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## Talkenlate04 (Sep 8, 2008)

She actually does not look that bad. No where near the mess my metallica male was in. I think she stands a good chance at being alright. You will have to wait a little bit to see if her abdomen dries out all the way. It is concerning that it is covering her book lungs that might pose a problem. But only time will tell. It does look like she is drying out some though. 
Keep us updated.


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## robc (Sep 8, 2008)

Talkenlate04 said:


> She actually does not look that bad. No where near the mess my metallica male was in. I think she stands a good chance at being alright. You will have to wait a little bit to see if her abdomen dries out all the way. It is concerning that it is covering her book lungs that might pose a problem. But only time will tell. It does look like she is drying out some though.
> Keep us updated.


Her legs look very strange, she is mobile....but is not right. The pads at the end of the foot are not there, maybe because how wet she is.....rob


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## Travis K (Sep 8, 2008)

wsimms said:


> Dude, she looks like the Pillsbury Dough Boy.  Bake her at 350 for 15 minutes before serving.
> 
> Seriously, she looks a lot better in the later pictures.  Maybe she just had a BM before all the plumbing got separated.


THat is exactly what I thought when i first sw the original pic.


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## Rochelle (Sep 8, 2008)

Nothing about those first pictures looked right. Are her spinnerets separated now?  What about what Ryan mentioned; are her book lungs cleared/uncovered? 
Man, Rob....I'd hate to see you have to go through losing another fine girl. This is so sad for you and Dani....  
She looks alot better now, but still not right. Please keep us posted. I'll be on and off the comp. all day today - feel free to drop me a line. 
~xo


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## desertdweller (Sep 8, 2008)

Is there any possibility she molted before her new exo was ready?  I'd be sick with worry--we're all sending living T vibes to her.


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## robc (Sep 8, 2008)

desertdweller said:


> Is there any possibility she molted before her new exo was ready?  I'd be sick with worry--we're all sending living T vibes to her.


This maybe a possibility, she is missing hair and her legs are smaller than the molt itself....I am starting a new thread with the entire molt sequence and pics/video.....rob


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## stonemantis (Sep 8, 2008)

Silly question:

What's the humidity and temps she is being kept? 

Because I have had my share of wet molts on individuals who where being kept too cool or too humid. Most of mine pulled through well and I think 1-2 (guess) didn't make it. In order to prevent this and it has worked for me is to let the enclosure dry out a bit only providing a waterdish for moisture and raising the temperature a little bit.

The above methods described are based on my experience and results can vary.

Brian


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## robc (Sep 8, 2008)

stonemantis said:


> Silly question:
> 
> What's the humidity and temps she is being kept?
> 
> ...


she is kept at 82-84 degrees during the day 77-78 during the night, her enclosure is rarely misted she is in my T room that is temp/humidity controlled the humidity is around 75-80%

Here's the new link to a new post with the entire molt sequence and a video of her taken just a little bit ago...

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?p=1234791#post1234791


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## stonemantis (Sep 8, 2008)

robc said:


> she is kept at 82-84 degrees during the day 77-78 during the night, her enclosure is rarely misted she is in my T room that is temp/humidity controlled the humidity is around 75-80%


Hmmm....those temperatures are right on the money almost perfect for most species. The humidity is high but, reasonable (Great for molting and eggsac construction)

This brings me to the next question:

What do you feed your tarantulas? 

Because I have also found that diet also contributes to this condition as well. 



robc said:


> Here's the new link to a new post with the entire molt sequence and a video of her taken just a little bit ago...
> 
> http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?p=1234791#post1234791


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## robc (Sep 8, 2008)

stonemantis said:


> Hmmm....those temperatures are right on the money almost perfect for most species. The humidity is high but, reasonable (Great for molting and eggsac construction)
> 
> This brings me to the next question:
> 
> ...


I have only had her since Aug 2 08 and she was in pre-molt when I got her and only ate once B.Dubia (I feed all feeders a very healthy diet). The guy who had her before fed her Pinkie mice a lot he stated, I believe this was the cause or led up to it, to much calcium??


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## stonemantis (Sep 8, 2008)

robc said:


> I have only had her since Aug 2 08 and she was in pre-molt when I got her and only ate once B.Dubia (I feed all feeders a very healthy diet). The guy who had her before fed her Pinkie mice a lot he stated, I believe this was the cause or led up to it, to much calcium??


I think you pinpointed the problem IMO. Calcium does play a factor in invertebrate health IMO as well.


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## robc (Sep 8, 2008)

stonemantis said:


> I think you pinpointed the problem IMO. Calcium does play a factor in invertebrate health IMO as well.


It is the only logical explanation. I feed my B.Dubia colonies fresh veggies/fruits/grain/cat food (low calcium)....your feeders must be fed as good as your T's it is essential to there health IMHO.


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## Veneficus (Sep 8, 2008)

robc said:


> I have only had her since Aug 2 08 and she was in pre-molt when I got her and only ate once B.Dubia (I feed all feeders a very healthy diet). The guy who had her before fed her Pinkie mice a lot he stated, I believe this was the cause or led up to it, to much calcium??


Wow, that is really interesting and also worrisome.  This is the second time I've heard of problems from feeing pinkie mice.  It makes me concerned about future transactions from people, and what they feed their Ts.


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## robc (Sep 8, 2008)

Veneficus said:


> Wow, that is really interesting and also worrisome.  This is the second time I've heard of problems from feeing pinkie mice.  It makes me concerned about future transactions from people, and what they feed their Ts.


I believe it is the cause of this, I looked at back E-mails he had sent me and he stated her main diet was pinkie mice, I have heard this messes with the formation of the exoskelton (this may be what happened).....her Exco didn't form all the way and know she is left with this, she has hair missing on the legs and her pads. her pads are not there like on most pokies (legs get thicker at the end)....they are just straight. I feed my huge Blondi females a invertabrate's only twice a year if I am breeding, if not they do not get any, and know none of my T;s will get them, noway!!!!. I feed mostly B.Dubia's and vary the feeders diet and the T's will get a varied diet......rob


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## fang333999 (Sep 8, 2008)

robc said:


> I believe it is the cause of this, I looked at back E-mails he had sent me and he stated her main diet was pinkie mice, I have heard this messes with the formation of the exoskelton (this may be what happened).....her Exco didn't form all the way and know she is left with this, she has hair missing on the legs and her pads. her pads are not there like on most pokies (legs get thicker at the end)....they are just straight. I feed my huge Blondi females a invertabrate's only twice a year if I am breeding, if not they do not get any, and know none of my T;s will get them, noway!!!!. I feed mostly B.Dubia's and vary the feeders diet and the T's will get a varied diet......rob



hey rob, im obviously not an expert im only 15 but ive read in a lot of places liek you set if you feed your t's vertebrates often, it screws up their exo like you said. i wonder if the diet that guy had her on was what caused this to happen. if thats the case, all i can think of is that it caused her to have trouble molting, but since she got out of her old skin she can only get better. it looks like she can climb fine in the video, and she looks a LOT better than the first pics you took. i hope for the best for you beauty, i have a feeling shell be alright


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## robc (Sep 8, 2008)

fang333999 said:


> hey rob, im obviously not an expert im only 15 but ive read in a lot of places liek you set if you feed your t's vertebrates often, it screws up their exo like you said. i wonder if the diet that guy had her on was what caused this to happen. if thats the case, all i can think of is that it caused her to have trouble molting, but since she got out of her old skin she can only get better. it looks like she can climb fine in the video, and she looks a LOT better than the first pics you took. i hope for the best for you beauty, i have a feeling shell be alright


I strongly believe that the mice feeding is the culprit.....rob


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## Talkenlate04 (Sep 8, 2008)

I don't keep my regalis anywhere near 70-80% humidity. For molting or egg sacs.

Additionally I do not think invert feeding is to blame. I have had several wet molts and they were much worse then this, but the Ts were never fed inverts. In my opinion the invert feeding fear is baseless.


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## robc (Sep 8, 2008)

Talkenlate04 said:


> I don't keep my regalis anywhere near 70-80% humidity. For molting or egg sacs.
> 
> Additionally I do not think invert feeding is to blame. I have had several wet molts and they were much worse then this, but the Ts were never fed inverts. In my opinion the invert feeding fear is baseless.


I dont keep it constant, I let the enclosure dry out also....rob


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## stonemantis (Sep 8, 2008)

Talkenlate04 said:


> I don't keep my regalis anywhere near 70-80% humidity. For molting or egg sacs.


I keep my regalis at around 65%-70% and have never had any problems with eggsac production. I had a few bad molts when I go lower than the above humidity but, eggsac production is best at around 67% humidity and at around 78-79 degrees farenheit with regalis IME. I also average around 4 sacs a year. 



Talkenlate04 said:


> Additionally I do not think invert feeding is to blame. I have had several wet molts and they were much worse then this, but the Ts were never fed inverts. In my opinion the invert feeding fear is baseless.


Diet is critical to invertebrate health. It has been proven that healthy feeders=healthy invertebrates. The problem is however, that the formula has yet to be mastered for the perfect critter chow so we have to constantly modify the menu.

I do agree that the vertebrate feeding fear is not 100% of the cause of the "Wet molt problem" but, in this case I believe it is. 

Your "Wet molt Problem" could be a temperature or a humidity problem IMO. This is all theory because I don't know the exact source but, have had similiar problems with my breeding stock and it took some trial and error to pinpoint it down to those two sources. I too have never fed vertebrate prey to my stock but, it still happens every once in a while. Genetics could also be a factor too. 

Brian


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## robc (Sep 8, 2008)

stonemantis said:


> I keep my regalis at around 65%-70% and have never had any problems with eggsac production. I had a few bad molts when I go lower than the above humidity but, eggsac production is best at around 67% humidity and at around 78-79 degrees farenheit with regalis IME. I also average around 4 sacs a year.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Very good info and appreciate the posts....rob


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## stonemantis (Sep 8, 2008)

robc said:


> Very good info and appreciate the posts....rob


It's a learning process that I am more than happy to share. Thanks for the kind words.


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## Talkenlate04 (Sep 9, 2008)

I don't think wet molts have anything to do with external conditions. It MIGHT have something to do with diet, but I strongly suspect that it is going to happen every now and then no matter what you do. Essentially we are talking about the over production of fluid during the molt, I doubt temps or humidity has anything to do with that. 


> I do agree that the vertebrate feeding fear is not 100% of the cause of the "Wet molt problem" but, in this case I believe it is.


The metallica I just had die from a wet molt was in 100% dry conditions. I have had them happen in medium humidity, and high. And none had ever been fed inverts. 
Avics, one irminia, and pokies are the ones I have seen it occur in. 
But I am only speaking of what I have seen. 
As far as egg sac production goes, I don't really need to say anything further. To each his or her own with the breeding methods.
I don't think anyone is really right or wrong here.........we are more speculating based on what each of us has seen. Little is known about this condition to begin with.


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## robc (Sep 9, 2008)

stonemantis said:


> It's a learning process that I am more than happy to share. Thanks for the kind words.


Well it is appreciated....rob


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## stonemantis (Sep 9, 2008)

Talkenlate04 said:


> Little is known about this condition to begin with.


That I agree with 100% based on useable information out there on this subject.


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## gvfarns (Sep 9, 2008)

Talkenlate04 said:


> I don't think wet molts have anything to do with external conditions. It MIGHT have something to do with diet, but I strongly suspect that it is going to happen every now and then no matter what you do. Essentially we are talking about the over production of fluid during the molt, I doubt temps or humidity has anything to do with that.
> 
> The metallica I just had die from a wet molt was in 100% dry conditions. I have had them happen in medium humidity, and high. And none had ever been fed inverts.
> Avics, one irminia, and pokies are the ones I have seen it occur in.
> ...


You keep saying inverts when you mean verts.  Just so you know.


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## troglodyte (Sep 9, 2008)

gvfarns said:


> You keep saying inverts when you mean verts.  Just so you know.


It's not just him, it's everyone! It's driving me nuts!!!


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## Talkenlate04 (Sep 9, 2008)

My mistake, you know what I meant.


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## robc (Sep 9, 2008)

Talkenlate04 said:


> My mistake, you know what I meant.


I do the same thing all the time...we all know what we mean...I misspell tarantula a lot...thankfully I can just abbreviate it to T on the boards.


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## robc (Sep 9, 2008)

UPDATE:

She's doing really well today! I think she was very dehydrated from the molt and she's since been drinking water and seems to be filling out. Her legs have thickened up in the front and she looks like she has pads on her feet now, before she didn't look like she had any. Her colors are more vibrant and she's running around, on the glass, fangs are black already and she is mean as an OBT - if not meaner! Here's some new pics I just took:


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## Fluke (Sep 9, 2008)

yea she looks much better!!! congrats and keep a watchful eye!


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## jeepinwu2 (Sep 9, 2008)

Talkenlate04 said:


> I
> Avics, one irminia, and pokies are the ones I have seen it occur in.
> But I am only speaking of what I have seen.


Add H. longipes to the list.  Mine molted into a mushy, slimey mess (looked way worse than pics I've seen on here).  
It has to be them molting before the new exo is ready.  I noticed on mine there were parts not fully developed on the joints and carpace.  The new carpace it wasn't fully attached and insides were exposed.  The joints very thin and broke open when the T tried to move.   
I only had the T for a week so I couldn't tell you what it's diet before then consisted of,  as far as new set up conditions it was not too moist not bone dry and 70-75 degrees.


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## robc (Sep 9, 2008)

Fluke said:


> yea she looks much better!!! congrats and keep a watchful eye!


Thanks...and I am! I check on her constantly... I will have to hold off on breeding her until after her next molt - just not worth it to try it anytime before that and cause her potentially more damage. I'm just happy she's moving around with lots of attitude! Oh, your MM Blondi is making about 5 sperm webs a week...and he is determined to find a way through the tank divider. He spends quite a bit of time trying to figure out how to get to the female on the other side...he is a horny boy - only one thing on his mind...like most males.


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## dtknow (Sep 9, 2008)

I'd agree with the thing in regards to molting before the new exo is ready.

In that case, it could deal with a problem regarding the hormones that regulate the molting process.

Some pesticides work in this manner, and other contaminants do similar things to other hormones in higher animals.


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## Talkenlate04 (Sep 9, 2008)

dtknow said:


> I'd agree with the thing in regards to molting before the new exo is ready.
> 
> In that case, it could deal with a problem regarding the hormones that regulate the molting process.
> 
> Some pesticides work in this manner, and other contaminants do similar things to other hormones in higher animals.


I am not really on board with the early molt thought. I think it is the over production of the lubricant fluid (what is that called )that helps them molt. And the cause of that is anyone’s best guess because I have no clue just thoughts.


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## robc (Sep 9, 2008)

Talkenlate04 said:


> I am not really on board with the early molt thought. I think it is the over production of the lubricant fluid (what is that called )that helps them molt. And the cause of that is anyone’s best guess because I have no clue just thoughts.


I agree...it's got to be something along those lines or maybe some type of infection - that would explain the color of the fluid and the smell....who really knows though?


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## crpy (Sep 9, 2008)

Talkenlate04 said:


> I think it is the over production of the lubricant fluid (what is that called )that helps them molt.
> 
> Ecdysial fluid


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## wollywoo (Sep 9, 2008)

Hey guys, I don't know the first thing about wet molts, but is it only arboreal species that seem to suffer with it? Or mostly arboreals? I didn't spot any terrestrial species in the thread, but I could have missed one lol I'm really glad she's looking better, I hate it when my spiders get ill, its mean


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## Talkenlate04 (Sep 9, 2008)

I think I remember some ground dwelling Ts being affected………but I could be mistaken. (kind of scatter brained lately) But it seems to be arboreal Ts mostly from what I have experienced. Here is a picture of a much worse case that resulted in the Ts death.   


> Ecdysial fluid


 What is responsible for the production of that fluid?


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## crpy (Sep 9, 2008)

Talkenlate04 said:


> What is responsible for the production of that fluid?
> 
> Pharate proteins, lipoproteins or are you thinking hemolymph cause anymore and my brain starts hurting


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## robc (Sep 9, 2008)

Talkenlate04 said:


> I think I remember some ground dwelling Ts being affected………but I could be mistaken. (kind of scatter brained lately) But it seems to be arboreal Ts mostly from what I have experienced. Here is a picture of a much worse case that resulted in the Ts death.
> What is responsible for the production of that fluid?


That pic is realy upsetting, I can't imagine what you were thinking....that just plain sucks.....rob


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## dtknow (Sep 9, 2008)

Hello Ryan.

With over-production of lubricant how would you explain the missing hairs and the faded patterns seen in some of them?(that metallica is a pretty good example of the second case).


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## Talkenlate04 (Sep 9, 2008)

I don’t think the hairs are missing. I think the hairs are matted flat to the legs by the excess fluid. 
The metallica I had was very wet, and seemed to be missing a lot of hairs. But the closer I looked the more I saw they were stuck to the sides of the legs almost as if they were glued there.
I hope I don't see it again anytime soon. It is heartbreaking to see.


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## robc (Sep 9, 2008)

Talkenlate04 said:


> I don’t think the hairs are missing. I think the hairs are matted flat to the legs by the excess fluid.
> The metallica I had was very wet, and seemed to be missing a lot of hairs. But the closer I looked the more I saw they were stuck to the sides of the legs almost as if they were glued there.
> I hope I don't see it again anytime soon. It is heartbreaking to see.


That pic was heartbreaking to me , I can't imagine what that must have felt like, My girl is missing hair on the outsides of her legs, I thiught I would share that.....rob


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## robc (Sep 10, 2008)

This a good sign, she is drinking a lot of water, hopefully she will restore some of the fluid she lost during this bad molt.


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## desertdweller (Sep 10, 2008)

So glad to see she is doing better.  How horrific the first pic was and Ryan's too.  Heartwarming to see you taking such good care of her.


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## robc (Sep 10, 2008)

desertdweller said:


> So glad to see she is doing better.  How horrific the first pic was and Ryan's too.  Heartwarming to see you taking such good care of her.


I committed to that when I purchased her, her health depends on me and I will do all I can for her....rob


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## oregongrown (Sep 10, 2008)

Rob, how is she doing now? I have been concerned


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## robc (Sep 10, 2008)

oregongrown said:


> Rob, how is she doing now? I have been concerned


Thank-you that means a lot  She is doing great, she is drinking water and actualy saw a roach in another enclosure and tried to get it, so I am going to look to see how her fangs look. She is going to be getting speacial roaches that I gut load with, carrots, broccoli, wheat, leetuce apples and small amount of cat food....I want only the best for her...she is a very speacial T to me. she has gone thru a lot and I want to make it up to her....rob


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## oregongrown (Sep 10, 2008)

That is good to hear, I will be sure to keep checking in, that T is so amazing!


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## desertdweller (Sep 10, 2008)

robc said:


> I committed to that when I purchased her, her health depends on me and I will do all I can for her....rob


Right on. . . and Ditto.  My Ts do so much for me and I bond with them; it's for good.   Very happy to hear she is looking for food!


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## Big Red TJ (Sep 10, 2008)

Glad to see she is doing better Rob best of luck.


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## robc (Sep 10, 2008)

desertdweller said:


> Right on. . . and Ditto.  My Ts do so much for me and I bond with them; it's for good.   Very happy to hear she is looking for food!


She is a fighter!!!! "She is a survivor, I'm not going to give up" (LOL)....but true....rob


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