# "its about as painful as a bee sting"



## Methal (Dec 10, 2014)

THE HELL IT IS!!

Know what? screw you! 

That thing HURTS LIKE HELL!

Dont think im going to die, but GDI! Percocets dont touch this kind of pain!

I think my arm is melting.....


----------



## vespers (Dec 10, 2014)

I'm guessing something you just purchased at Animal Ark seven minutes or so before this post bit you...


----------



## gobey (Dec 10, 2014)

Methal said:


> THE HELL IT IS!!
> 
> Know what? screw you!
> 
> ...


Well what bit you? 
Likea rosea? Or a baboon?


----------



## Ashton (Dec 10, 2014)

Everyone has different tolerances and such.


----------



## freedumbdclxvi (Dec 10, 2014)

What bit you, and what were you doing that put you in a position to be bitten?


----------



## Methal (Dec 10, 2014)

vespers said:


> I'm guessing something you just purchased at Animal Ark seven minutes or so before this post bit you...


nope I stopped buying tarantulas at that place. Wish I could get all the ones they ahve left, but they would just get more. 
I bought a rock water dish in hopes that my OBT would stop using the plastic one as a "hat" 

Keep in mind this OBT has never shown any sign of aggression, and usually balls up in the corner of her little hut. 
I was using my 'not long enough' (9inch) tongs to get the old water dish out of her rock hut/cave web mess. 
This time she came out of there like a bat out of hell and hit me right above the right index finger knuckle. She only got me with 1 fang. holy <edit> it hurts like hell though. its more of a scratch, than a puncture.
the pain is like fire, has spread to my elbow, and i am starting to feel somewhat nauseated.


----------



## MrDave (Dec 10, 2014)

I do believe that OBTs are near the top, if not at the top, of painful bites. The nausea and spreading, fire like pain are consistent with the few bite reports I've read. It'll pass, but until then...

The running out and unexpectedly biting with that much pain is why they're recommended for experienced keepers (maybe because the experienced keepers deserve that pain - I dunno).

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## gobey (Dec 10, 2014)

I'm sorry man that really sucks that's not a good species to get tagged by. For future reference here's two things I like to do if one of my tarantulas is using a water dish for a strange reason I just get them a second one and let them use 1 water dish for whatever it is they want to do and hopefully they use the second one for water. Let her have her hat.

secondly get to jamie tarantulas. Com ASAP and get yourself a pair of 18 inch tongs they're not too expensive and there's free shipping. I use nothing else when dealing with my OBT and I only go through the top opening latch to do any maintenance on her I'm not sure what kind of enclosure you have yours in. If I do have to open the lid and make sure she's in her hide and I place a catch up over it.

I wish you a speedy recovery from this bite my man and it just goes to show that even if you have a calm OBT or other spider always treat it like its liable to pop at any moment. My girl has always been relatively calm and cooperative but I treat her like she's a finicky landmine.


----------



## IHeartTs (Dec 10, 2014)

I thought this was referring to a rose hair or something and I was tempted to buy a kevlar suit of armor... glad it's an OBT. Not for you of course. I'm sorry you're hurting bad, but I'm glad this wasn't describing a NW lol. OBT venom is on the more potent end of the spectrum . Did you make a bite report?


----------



## Methal (Dec 10, 2014)

gobey said:


> I'm sorry man that really sucks that's not a good species to get tagged by. For future reference here's two things I like to do if one of my tarantulas is using a water dish for a strange reason I just get them a second one and let them use 1 water dish for whatever it is they want to do and hopefully they use the second one for water. Let her have her hat.
> 
> secondly get to jamie tarantulas. Com ASAP and get yourself a pair of 18 inch tongs they're not too expensive and there's free shipping. I use nothing else when dealing with my OBT and I only go through the top opening latch to do any maintenance on her I'm not sure what kind of enclosure you have yours in. If I do have to open the lid and make sure she's in her hide and I place a catch up over it.
> 
> I wish you a speedy recovery from this bite my man and it just goes to show that even if you have a calm OBT or other spider always treat it like its liable to pop at any moment. My girl has always been relatively calm and cooperative but I treat her like she's a finicky landmine.


the 18 inchrs come on saturday.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## awiec (Dec 10, 2014)

IHeartTs said:


> I thought this was referring to a rose hair or something and I was tempted to buy a kevlar suit of armor... glad it's an OBT. Not for you of course. I'm sorry you're hurting bad, but I'm glad this wasn't describing a NW lol. OBT venom is on the more potent end of the spectrum . Did you make a bite report?


A bite report fill out would be good, not to "scare people away" from OBT's like some people have claimed recently but the collection of facts is very important as T venom is not a subject that is studied well. The info is also vital to let people know what they should expect these are "hot" animals even though they cannot kill you, it's going to hurt a lot and some people have had to go to the hospital due to the pain.


----------



## gobey (Dec 10, 2014)

Methal said:


> the 18 inchrs come on saturday.


Should help avoid this kind of stuff. Not that the OBT will climb them any slower... But that extra millisecond can be enough of a reaction time. For me it means the difference of having my hands in her enclosure and never having them in there.

I especially will need these for my P. regalis' who may each reach 6 or 7". Also with nasty bites and demon speed.

I'm pretty sure the bee sting comparison is for bytes from curly hairs and Rose hairs and red knees and such. The minute you get into old world tarantulas the venom potency increases exponentially as does the pain.

Larger new world tarantulas probably have more painful bites to such as L. parahybanas and T. blondi due to the fact that their fangs are reaching close to an inch in size but that's more because of the size of the fan as opposed to the potency of the venom.


----------



## Methal (Dec 10, 2014)

IHeartTs said:


> I thought this was referring to a rose hair or something and I was tempted to buy a kevlar suit of armor... glad it's an OBT. Not for you of course. I'm sorry you're hurting bad, but I'm glad this wasn't describing a NW lol. OBT venom is on the more potent end of the spectrum . Did you make a bite report?


slap yur self with a stick + nails and pour some lemon juice on it. Should be about as fun as a rosie bite. 


Update. Pain is still there. Stupid bite reports say it lasts about 45 minutes. its dulled some, but the muscles in my arm are making it unusable. they are all cramped up, got some discomfort in my neck, back, jaw and shoulder as well. typing with 1 hand. Not making a stupid video.

shes in a 2 gallon enclosure


----------



## freedumbdclxvi (Dec 10, 2014)

Methal said:


> Keep in mind this OBT has never shown any sign of aggression, and usually balls up in the corner of her little hut.


This is why I and other keepers note that OW T's may be docile 99% of the time and live up to the "hype" that 1%.  Always expect the 1%, and the 9" tongs will work fine.

Reactions: Like 3


----------



## Hanska (Dec 10, 2014)

Sorry for your pain but I did giggle a bit as I read this. Not 'cause I'm a D but this is the first post I remember you from:


Methal said:


> Been bit a couple times by black widows. Call me morbid, but i'm looking forward to the comparison. helllll no I'm not going to make it bite, or be careless with it. I plan to just leave it alone, but someday if I do get nabbed...should be interesting.


You really got to be careful what you wish for.

Reactions: Like 9


----------



## gobey (Dec 10, 2014)

freedumbdclxvi said:


> This is why I and other keepers note that OW T's may be docile 99% of the time and live up to the "hype" that 1%.  Always expect the 1%, and the 9" tongs will work fine.


I'd still rather treat it like the 1% with 18" tongs and never have my hands in the enclosure unless necessary. Treat it like you're on bomb squad.


----------



## freedumbdclxvi (Dec 10, 2014)

gobey said:


> I'd still rather treat it like the 1% with 18" tongs and never have my hands in the enclosure unless necessary. Treat it like you're on bomb squad.


*If* you can work with 18" tongs with precision.  The longer they get, the less precise your control tends to be.  I use 10" tongs whether its A avic or P fera.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## cold blood (Dec 10, 2014)

Methal said:


> THE HELL IT IS!!
> 
> Know what? screw you!
> 
> ...


Smaller NW t's are described as "like a bee or wasp sting".  I've never in my life heard anyone describe an OW bite this way...and certainly nt an OBT.  Of course it hurts like hell, its supposed to.   Honey badgers and the crap they deal with require a strong message.

Reactions: Like 5


----------



## Methal (Dec 10, 2014)

Hanska said:


> Sorry for your pain but I did giggle a bit as I read this. Not 'cause I'm a D but this is the first post I remember you from:
> 
> 
> You really got to be careful what you wish for.


Welp im not at the hospital so thats a thing.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## gobey (Dec 10, 2014)

freedumbdclxvi said:


> *If* you can work with 18" tongs with precision.  The longer they get, the less precise your control tends to be.  I use 10" tongs whether its A avic or P fera.


Preferences I suppose. I've worked in my OBT enclosure hands on... But I shut her in her hide first. Usually all I have to to with tongs is move stuff around or get a dead cricket. Nothing the 18" can't do. Grab the water dish etc... I also use a turkey baster to fill her dish... I just really don't want my hands in there.

Now her enclosure is also pretty bare bones... Water dish. Hide. Plastic plant. Substrate. Done. So nothing requires much delicate maintenance. 

Now my pokie may end up having a more intricate setup as an adult. Maybe it'll need more precision. But I've yet to run into anything too complicated yet for the big tongs...

10" definitely need to be used however for grabbing uneaten live prey.

---------- Post added 12-10-2014 at 08:31 PM ----------




Methal said:


> Welp im not at the hospital so thats a thing.


You shouldn't need it... There's nothing they can really do from what I understand. You'd just be in the ER for a long time to maybe get muscle relaxors


----------



## DVMT (Dec 10, 2014)

Methal said:


> Welp im not at the hospital so thats a thing.


I got tagged by an H. mac several months ago and if the comparison is anything alike, the worst may yet to come.  I had hand cramps and muscle spasms for almost three weeks.  The most fun was waking up at 2am with both my calf muscles clinching simultaneously.  Fun, fun, fun.  Getting some muscle relaxers may not be a bad idea and taking one before bed.  In hindsight, I would have gotten them right away if I knew what was coming.  In this experience I grew a GREAT respect for OW's.

Damon

Reactions: Like 3


----------



## Sharno (Dec 10, 2014)

Methal said:


> slap yur self with a stick + nails and pour some lemon juice on it. Should be about as fun as a rosie bite.
> 
> 
> Update. Pain is still there. Stupid bite reports say it lasts about 45 minutes. its dulled some, but the muscles in my arm are making it unusable. they are all cramped up, got some discomfort in my neck, back, jaw and shoulder as well. typing with 1 hand. Not making a stupid video.
> ...



How big is she?

When these little monsters run up tongs, etc and "tag" people, do they retreat back down into their cage typically after the bite?

Hope you are feeling better soon.


----------



## gobey (Dec 10, 2014)

Sharno said:


> How big is she?
> 
> When these little monsters run up tongs, etc and "tag" people, do they retreat back down into their cage typically after the bite?
> 
> Hope you are feeling better soon.


That's a good question.


----------



## Methal (Dec 10, 2014)

Sharno said:


> How big is she?
> 
> When these little monsters run up tongs, etc and "tag" people, do they retreat back down into their cage typically after the bite?
> 
> Hope you are feeling better soon.


I dont recall honestly. Once I pulled my hand out of her enclosure she somehow ended up back in her 'web filled rock hole' Scared me more than anything, 

So far the pain has come down a noticeable degree. Still cramping all up and down my right arm, back, neck, jaw, etc. Feeling sick still. Much like food poisoning if you have ever had that. 
The area around the bite is not as swollen as I thought it would get, bit red, hurts like a bruise when touched. I've taken 4 percs (10mg oxycodone 300mg acetaminophen.) and 2 muscle relaxers. (Cyclobenzaprine) Which have dried my mouth out, and made me somewhat loopy. The cramps keep coming just as they were. 

To be honest I'm not sure that the muscle relaxers are doing anything yet, and dont know if they will. I think they are meant more for chronic muscle stiffness/cramping and not so much for acute cramping due to envenomation. I've had them in me about 3 hours. (its been about 6 hours since I got tagged.) the cramps come on suddenly and go about as fast, so maybe they are helping. 

Drinking a lot of water, and this oil stuff my wife calls "deep blue" seem to help more than the narcotics and relaxers. She rubbed it on my right arm and I felt an almost immediate change in the pain level and muscles tightness. 

Guess I could be putting this in a bite report....but whatever, I think peoples reaction to venom will differ quite a bit, at least on the details. 

Just think I got lucky that she only got me with 1 fang. 
Overall though I'd say im through the worst of it.

I have to laugh at myself though. Literally happened 2 seconds after I make fun of a store for being stupid. One thing I have to say though the pain was immediate. It was intense and gawd awful within a minute of getting tagged. I hadn't even finished thinking "maybe a dry bite" before the burn started.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Sharno (Dec 10, 2014)

Methal, how big is the OBT that nailed you?


----------



## gobey (Dec 10, 2014)

It almost makes me want to reconsider the OW ts on my wishlist. Like adding more loaded guns to my collection. All I'm looking for right now are horned baboons, which are reportedly quite calm. But anything from across the sea can tag you with a bite comparable to that. And I have 3 of the worst venoms in my collection. I'd like a P. metallica one day too.

I think maybe no more until my slings reach adulthood and I have them a while from there too.

Thanks for sharing this experience. Many would probably be embarrassed and hide it. But I think every incident repirt like this is helpful to other keepers.


----------



## Ultum4Spiderz (Dec 10, 2014)

Methal said:


> THE HELL IT IS!!
> 
> Know what? screw you!
> 
> ...


Can write a bite report? Please .
OW bite??


----------



## IHeartTs (Dec 10, 2014)

awiec said:


> A bite report fill out would be good, not to "scare people away" from OBT's like some people have claimed recently but the collection of facts is very important as T venom is not a subject that is studied well. The info is also vital to let people know what they should expect these are "hot" animals even though they cannot kill you, it's going to hurt a lot and some people have had to go to the hospital due to the pain.


My thoughts exactly.

---------- Post added 12-10-2014 at 09:43 PM ----------




Methal said:


> slap yur self with a stick + nails and pour some lemon juice on it. Should be about as fun as a rosie bite.
> 
> 
> Update. Pain is still there. Stupid bite reports say it lasts about 45 minutes. its dulled some, but the muscles in my arm are making it unusable. they are all cramped up, got some discomfort in my neck, back, jaw and shoulder as well. typing with 1 hand. Not making a stupid video.
> ...


Ehhhhhh I'll pass on that.  I'll just live vicariously through you lol.


----------



## ARACHNO-SMACK48 (Dec 10, 2014)

You may want to consider seeing a doctor just to get it checked out.


----------



## DVMT (Dec 10, 2014)

Methal said:


> I dont recall honestly. Once I pulled my hand out of her enclosure she somehow ended up back in her 'web filled rock hole' Scared me more than anything,
> 
> So far the pain has come down a noticeable degree. Still cramping all up and down my right arm, back, neck, jaw, etc. Feeling sick still. Much like food poisoning if you have ever had that.
> The area around the bite is not as swollen as I thought it would get, bit red, hurts like a bruise when touched. I've taken 4 percs (10mg oxycodone 300mg acetaminophen.) and 2 muscle relaxers. (Cyclobenzaprine) Which have dried my mouth out, and made me somewhat loopy. The cramps keep coming just as they were.
> ...


I have some of that deep blue.  Really good stuff.  Wish I would have had it when I got bit.  Stay hydrated, eat bananas, and rub the deep blue on your calves before bed.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Sharno (Dec 10, 2014)

Yes, a bite report would help.  And I hate to harp on it but I really want to know the DLS of this nasty critter.
I have many OBT slings that were provided in a trade. They grow SO FAST.  They are now at a size that I am not interested in keeping them; forget rehousing or anything! Or shipping!  I am giving them to a friend who is more experienced. I just peel open the deli cup and use tweezers to put a cricket in there, but now I am worried about even that.  I could not believe how big they got in such a short period of time.


----------



## IHeartTs (Dec 10, 2014)

I'm not sure of the severity of damage done with T venom, but a little Gatorade or anything with electrolytes might help speed the process up (along with what you're doing). I did some quick reading and some people have had elevated CK levels which reminded me of rhabdomyolysis. In short, with rhabdo, muscle tissue is being destroyed and it causes muscle weakness, fast heart rate, nausea, fever, muscle cramps, joint pain, and confusion.  I'm just guessing. Like I said quick reading.

Physiology lesson for the day. I'm done lol. Carry on.


----------



## cold blood (Dec 10, 2014)

Sharno said:


> Yes, a bite report would help.  And I hate to harp on it but I really want to know the DLS of this nasty critter.
> I have many OBT slings that were provided in a trade. They grow SO FAST.  They are now at a size that I am not interested in keeping them; forget rehousing or anything! Or shipping!  I am giving them to a friend who is more experienced. I just peel open the deli cup and use tweezers to put a cricket in there, but now I am worried about even that.  I could not believe how big they got in such a short period of time.


That's exactly why I always tell people who think they will gain the proper experience as their sling grows, that it will outgrow your experience quickly....before you know it, they're looking at it wondering what they got themselves into.  Its great that you have an experienced keeper to hand them off to, most don't have that option locally, although Cali is a hotspot for t keeping.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Ultum4Spiderz (Dec 10, 2014)

cold blood said:


> That's exactly why I always tell people who think they will gain the proper experience as their sling grows, that it will outgrow your experience quickly....before you know it, they're looking at it wondering what they got themselves into.  Its great that you have an experienced keeper to hand them off to, most don't have that option locally, although Cali is a hotspot for t keeping.


+1  yeah I got no issues w/ my Hot OBT's I even saw someone suggest them to noob's(bad idea). 
Yeah I keep my hands away from all my ts, Generally so OW I treat no differently. I use catch cups & paintbrushes always for this species, However I could still get bitten someday.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## klawfran3 (Dec 10, 2014)

Oh and OP just in case you were thinking about it, do _not_ drink alcohol. It may help the pain but it dilates the blood vessels and helps the venom spread. 

how big was the spider in question too? I don't think you ever answered that question.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## IHeartTs (Dec 10, 2014)

klawfran3 said:


> Oh and OP just in case you were thinking about it, do _not_ drink alcohol. It may help the pain but it dilates the blood vessels and helps the venom spread.
> 
> how big was the spider in question too? I don't think you ever answered that question.


+1. And increases general inflammation.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Methal (Dec 10, 2014)

klawfran3 said:


> Oh and OP just in case you were thinking about it, do _not_ drink alcohol. It may help the pain but it dilates the blood vessels and helps the venom spread.
> 
> how big was the spider in question too? I don't think you ever answered that question.


about 4.5 inches. 

Guess I should do a bite report.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Ultum4Spiderz (Dec 10, 2014)

Methal said:


> about 4.5 inches.
> 
> Guess I should do a bite report.


Guess its gotta be pretty painful otherwise they would not survive in wild. Hope you recover, I had thumb muscle cramps for 4 days randomly from A NW A anax bite. It wasnt near as painful of venom, and only 1 fang went in.


----------



## Methal (Dec 10, 2014)

Ultum4Spiderz said:


> Guess its gotta be pretty painful otherwise they would not survive in wild. Hope you recover, I had thumb muscle cramps for 4 days randomly from A NW A anax bite.


the pain is all but gone, at least the burning sensation. It has been 9 hours since bite. The cramping feeling is still all over the place, and nausea, like I said feels like a bad case of food poisoning - cold sweats, vomiting, rapid heart rate, etc. 

Still though, its not in the same league as a black widow. That bite is more of a crushing bone pain that lasts for hours, and then the 'poisoned' feeling that lasts for days.

EDIT: on second thought there are so many bite reports for the P. Murinus. All of which are about the same with very small variations.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Ultum4Spiderz (Dec 10, 2014)

Methal said:


> the pain is all but gone, at least the burning sensation. It has been 9 hours since bite. The cramping feeling is still all over the place, and nausea, like I said feels like a bad case of food poisoning - cold sweats, vomiting, rapid heart rate, etc.
> 
> Still though, its not in the same league as a black widow. That bite is more of a crushing bone pain that lasts for hours, and then the 'poisoned' feeling that lasts for days.


Yea just do a bite report, I imagine I will get bitten eventually as I am moving more towards collection OW ts.
Good news the killer pain is wearing off, hope you get better soon.


----------



## 14pokies (Dec 10, 2014)

Wait for the hot flashes!!!! I would get flush for no reason for about 8 months after my bite...I had a buddy that started having panic attacks after being bitten by one ,that lasted about 5-6 months.. I also had vision changes with my bite, starting about 12 hours after the bite I would ocasionally get bright white and red flashes after having my eyes closed for a few seconds..you may not want to drive for tomorrow. The worst was the first 8 hrs but I felt pretty bad for 3 or 4 days..just really worn out kinda like I had a hangover and the flu..my lymphnodes swelled did yours? I dont know of anybody else that has had that symptom other than myself. Hope you feel better bud it sucks .


----------



## Ultum4Spiderz (Dec 10, 2014)

14pokies said:


> Wait for the hot flashes!!!! I would get flush for no reason for about 8 months after my bite...I had a buddy that started having panic attacks after being bitten by one ,that lasted about 5-6 months.. I also had vision changes with my bite, starting about 12 hours after the bite I would ocasionally get bright white and red flashes after having my eyes closed for a few seconds..you may not want to drive for tomorrow. The worst was the first 8 hrs but I felt pretty bad for 3 or 4 days..just really worn out kinda like I had a hangover and the flu..my lymphnodes swelled did yours? I dont know of anybody else that has had that symptom other than myself. Hope you feel better bud it sucks .


Ouch that's gotta hurt hey they do not call it a OBT, because its a pet kitten. My MMs are incredibly defensive.
I wouldn't ever put my hands near those crazy Males , females either. However I do not trust my NW either, Once a baby OBT tried to bite me during 1st housing but Its fangs were too small.


----------



## 14pokies (Dec 10, 2014)

Interesting side note..I have had a few friends telling me there obts have been more active over the last 3 days..I have sexed 4 since Sunday because there climbing the walls of there enclosures..you said yours is pretty chill up until today so maybe its a seasonal thing making them act weird..also its usually the thing you do the most frequently in your enclosures that get you bit, but you know this now! It sucks that it happened but it will make you a better keeper in the long run..as I'm sure you never want to go through this again.

---------- Post added 12-11-2014 at 12:02 AM ----------




Ultum4Spiderz said:


> Ouch that's gotta hurt hey they do not call it a OBT, because its a pet kitten. My MMs are incredibly defensive.
> I wouldn't ever put my hands near those crazy Males , females either. However I do not trust my NW either, Once a baby OBT tried to bite me during 1st housing but Its fangs were too small.


 ya it sucks being at work talking to a pretty customer about beta fish and the next thing you know your shaking like a leaf and your face is bright red and dripping sweat! When I got hit i didn't know anything about the species, it wasnt even my spider..I met the kid that had it at the shop I worked at,we became friends and he asked me to help him do some cage cleaning and transfers because he was busy with finals and work..all he told me about the t was"be carefully there nasty" I already had my hand in there..if he didn't distract me I woulda seen it coming and backed off..I punched him about 5 hrs later when I felt a little better..a year later my African rock python pooped in his mouth"long story" so its all good!


----------



## Methal (Dec 11, 2014)

i'll write the thing tomorrow. going to try to get some sleep. the involuntary arching of my lower back might keep me awake though. lol Its been one long day.


----------



## gobey (Dec 11, 2014)

You're doing this for science...

Steve Irwin would be proud

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Ultum4Spiderz (Dec 11, 2014)

gobey said:


> You're doing this for science...
> 
> Steve Irwin would be proud


+1 Steve Irwin was like a HERO of the pet world. Real shame he died, due to lack of research on stingrays poor guy.
I am no were near as brave as Steve Irwin he caught crocodiles I keep Ts. If he was T keeper everyone in the pet hobby would own one.

Steve Irwin is a legend, R.i.p.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Tim Benzedrine (Dec 11, 2014)

But...but...

They come highly recommended as a beginner's species! I know because I saw it posted right here at AB. A couple of times. The poor species has been needlessly demonized, and they are the natural next step from a campestratus or a rosea.

Ugh, I stepped in some sarcasm, it was dripping all over this post. 

Nope. I'll never own an OW. All those symptoms are some of the things I hate the most. If I end up horrifically allergic to urticating hairs, I'll just ease out of the hobby, maybe switch over to scorps. I was reading about something called a "deathstalker" which is probably a good starter species those kind of common names are most likely all hype...

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Ultum4Spiderz (Dec 11, 2014)

Tim Benzedrine said:


> But...but...
> 
> They come highly recommended as a beginner's species! I know because I saw it posted right here at AB. A couple of times. The poor species has been needlessly demonized, and they are the natural next step from a campestratus or a rosea.
> 
> ...


+1 Yes OBT are easy to manage if you use tongs for cage maintenance & paintbrush for rehousing. 
I would take OW bite over hairs, I about passed out when I tried feeding mice to major hair kickers 4 yr ago when they weren't hungry. The hairs they kick more mice will put any OW Venom to shame. EXTREEM pain, is only way to describe it. after effect for up to a week later.
This is why I feed roaches, and not mice hardly ever.

Mice do not cause health issues for Ts, but for me OUCH.:bruised: I am sure many Advvanced keepers have quit NW ts for this reason.


----------



## Tim Benzedrine (Dec 11, 2014)

At least the hairs don't make you hurl. I hate to hurl.

Having never been haired yet, (my time will come) I've wondered if the sensation it is comparable to getting those tiny spines (glochids) that some cacti have. because I have had prickly pear glochids in my fingers and it is horrible. I can imagine hairs feeling similar depending on the circumstances and location. I don't recall the pain lasting more than a few days, though.


----------



## Poec54 (Dec 11, 2014)

Methal said:


> So far the pain has come down a noticeable degree. Still cramping all up and down my right arm, back, neck, jaw, etc. Feeling sick still. Much like food poisoning if you have ever had that.
> 
> The area around the bite is not as swollen as I thought it would get, bit red, hurts like a bruise when touched. I've taken 4 percs (10mg oxycodone 300mg acetaminophen.) and 2 muscle relaxers. (Cyclobenzaprine) Which have dried my mouth out, and made me somewhat loopy. The cramps keep coming just as they were.
> 
> ...


I suppose a 'minor inconvenience' like this isn't going to stop some people from recommending OBT's for beginners and even as a first spider.  

Please, we need this incident to refer to in the bite reports.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## IHeartTs (Dec 11, 2014)

Speaking of bite reports and research,  does anyone know how much has actually been put into T venom? Like peer reviewed studies?


----------



## Poec54 (Dec 11, 2014)

IHeartTs said:


> Speaking of bite reports and research,  does anyone know how much has actually been put into T venom? Like peer reviewed studies?



China's working with Haplopelma schmidti venom, but far more effort goes into research on snake venom.  Snake venom has a lot of proteins and is available in larger quantities.


----------



## ArachnoFreak666 (Dec 11, 2014)

Tim Benzedrine said:


> But...but...
> 
> They come highly recommended as a beginner's species! I know because I saw it posted right here at AB. A couple of times. The poor species has been needlessly demonized, and they are the natural next step from a campestratus or a rosea.
> 
> ...


actually the "deathstalker" is one of the most potent scorpions and unlike Ts, it can kill you.


----------



## IHeartTs (Dec 11, 2014)

Poec54 said:


> China's working with Haplopelma schmidti venom, but far more effort goes into research on snake venom.  Snake venom has a lot of proteins and is available in larger quantities.


Thats what I thought.  I couldn't really find much in a database. Granted I only did a quick search. I'm sure it's been theorized and proved before but I did have a theory about the symptoms.  I actually would like to start a research project on OW venom I just need to set it up.


----------



## Methal (Dec 11, 2014)

ArachnoFreak666 said:


> actually the "deathstalker" is one of the most potent scorpions and unlike Ts, it can kill you.


where is that 'bite' report?


----------



## ArachnoFreak666 (Dec 11, 2014)

Methal said:


> where is that 'bite' report?


no idea. but they have very potent venom. if there was a bite report, it would probably be a family member writing it (if you catch my drift). i was going to buy one before from an LPS because i thought the name was cool, then i decided to talk to my friend about it that was into scorpions, and after listening to what he had to say, there is no reason why anyone should ever buy one. lol im just sticking with Ts.


----------



## Formerphobe (Dec 11, 2014)

ArachnoFreak666 said:


> actually the "deathstalker" is one of the most potent scorpions and unlike Ts, it can kill you.


Was I the only one who picked up on the word sarcasm in Tim 's post?.?.?

Reactions: Like 7


----------



## Methal (Dec 11, 2014)

ArachnoFreak666 said:


> no idea. but they have very potent venom. if there was a bite report, it would probably be a family member writing it (if you catch my drift). i was going to buy one before from an LPS because i thought the name was cool, then i decided to talk to my friend about it that was into scorpions, and after listening to what he had to say, there is no reason why anyone should ever buy one. lol im just sticking with Ts.


Yeah I dont blame you one bit, being a single guy I had no issues with keeping around very venomous critters. 

Now that I have kids, i've had to change it up a bit. I'll be using this experience as a teaching moment for my kids. Orang thing? DO NOT TOUCH! 
I'm sure I wont have an issues though, my kids are scared of cats.....


----------



## ArachnoFreak666 (Dec 11, 2014)

Methal said:


> Yeah I dont blame you one bit, being a single guy I had no issues with keeping around very venomous critters.
> 
> Now that I have kids, i've had to change it up a bit. I'll be using this experience as a teaching moment for my kids. Orang thing? DO NOT TOUCH!
> I'm sure I wont have an issues though, my kids are scared of cats.....


lol well than that should be a good thing, i dont think ull have to worry about them rooting through your T collection when your gone. luckly i dont have any kids yet and dont plan on it anytime soon. only person i have to worry about is my girlfriend and she fully understands the consequences of her actions when she is in the T room. my OBT is just like you were describing (calm and never does a threat posture) so it worries me a little bit now, knowing that she feeds the Ts every once in a while.


----------



## freedumbdclxvi (Dec 11, 2014)

ArachnoFreak666 said:


> no idea. but they have very potent venom. if there was a bite report, it would probably be a family member writing it (if you catch my drift). i was going to buy one before from an LPS because i thought the name was cool, then i decided to talk to my friend about it that was into scorpions, and after listening to what he had to say, there is no reason why anyone should ever buy one. lol


...how about because they are an interesting and beautiful species to keep?

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## edgeofthefreak (Dec 11, 2014)

Methal said:


> where is that 'bite' report?





ArachnoFreak666 said:


> no idea....


It's *right here*, and it's called a sting report.


----------



## Methal (Dec 11, 2014)

freedumbdclxvi said:


> ...how about because they are an interesting and beautiful species to keep?


reason enough for me....lol


----------



## Ultum4Spiderz (Dec 11, 2014)

ArachnoFreak666 said:


> actually the "deathstalker" is one of the most potent scorpions and unlike Ts, it can kill you.


+1 Androctonus genus , fat–tailed scorpion's can be deadly also. Id like a fat–tailed scorpion they look cool, but not until I get a T room(not my bedroom) I don't want deadly scorps running around loose:laugh: !!!.

---------- Post added 12-11-2014 at 12:31 PM ----------




Formerphobe said:


> Was I the only one who picked up on the word sarcasm in Tim 's post?.?.?


I did funny post


----------



## ratluvr76 (Dec 11, 2014)

Tim Benzedrine said:


> At least the hairs don't make you hurl. I hate to hurl.
> 
> Having never been haired yet, (my time will come) I've wondered if the sensation it is comparable to getting those tiny spines (glochids) that some cacti have. because I have had prickly pear glochids in my fingers and it is horrible. I can imagine hairs feeling similar depending on the circumstances and location. I don't recall the pain lasting more than a few days, though.


I got a SINGLE hair from one of my A. avic's that scampered off and I had to catch it. It was in my palm and irritated me for about a week and a half. The area around the hair was red and inflamed and very sensitive. and ITCHY!!! It was so itchy it hurt.... I wouldn't say it's extreme, not like a deep cut or something, but very bothersome. I could imagine getting a bunch of them together for a cumulative effect to be much much worse though.


----------



## Methal (Dec 11, 2014)

ratluvr76 said:


> I got a SINGLE hair from one of my A. avic's that scampered off and I had to catch it. It was in my palm and irritated me for about a week and a half. The area around the hair was red and inflamed and very sensitive. and ITCHY!!! It was so itchy it hurt.... I wouldn't say it's extreme, not like a deep cut or something, but very bothersome. I could imagine getting a bunch of them together for a cumulative effect to be much much worse though.


its stuff like this that reaffirms my decision to never pick up one of my Ts LOL. I got them for study, conservation, and to look at. if I wanted to pick something up i'd have another human child.

EDIT: Bite report has been written, I'll continue to  update it till the end of the symptoms. Its in the P Murinus thread in the bite report sub forum.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Poec54 (Dec 11, 2014)

freedumbdclxvi said:


> ...how about because they are an interesting and beautiful species to keep?



+1.  if we ban everything that's potentially dangerous, we'd all be walking to work and eating with our hands.

Reactions: Like 6


----------



## ArachnoFreak666 (Dec 11, 2014)

freedumbdclxvi said:


> ...how about because they are an interesting and beautiful species to keep?


To each there own, didnt say you shouldnt buy one, i just dont see a reason to, for me a T is fine enough. Last thing i need is a very dangerous scorpion in my T room when my girlfriend is in there feeding the Ts. Just not my cup of tea, thats all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Methal (Dec 11, 2014)

ArachnoFreak666 said:


> To each there own, didnt say you shouldnt buy one, i just dont see a reason to, for me a T is fine enough. Last thing i need is a very dangerous scorpion in my T room when my girlfriend is in there feeding the Ts. Just not my cup of tea, thats all.


AHMERGERD!!!12 you Can NOT have your own opinion!!11 making baby jesus cry!:sarcasm:

I understand that one completely. No explanation required. ...unless of course you are spreading blatantly wrong info like "rosies jump 3 feet, and kill tigers with a gaze of their eye!" I dont think anyone here would huff and puff at anyone's simple opinion =)

and if they do, just think "welp thats an idiot" and /ignore /move on

On another note, got me my Tarantula Keepers Guide =) got some reading to do!!


----------



## Tim Benzedrine (Dec 11, 2014)

Formerphobe said:


> Was I the only one who picked up on the word sarcasm in Tim 's post?.?.?


I can be subtle and mysterious in my ways.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## gobey (Dec 11, 2014)

Methal said:


> AHMERGERD!!!12 you Can NOT have your own opinion!!11 making baby jesus cry!:sarcasm:
> 
> I understand that one completely. No explanation required. ...unless of course you are spreading blatantly wrong info like "rosies jump 3 feet, and kill tigers with a gaze of their eye!" I dont think anyone here would huff and puff at anyone's simple opinion =)
> 
> ...


Read it... And then read it again


----------



## klawfran3 (Dec 11, 2014)

ArachnoFreak666 said:


> To each there own, didnt say you shouldnt buy one, i just dont see a reason to, for me a T is fine enough. Last thing i need is a very dangerous scorpion in my T room when my girlfriend is in there feeding the Ts. Just not my cup of tea, thats all.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Personally I find the fact that something so small is that dangerous is amazing. It's why I want to get one eventually.
 Urticating hairs aren't fun anymore (used to be pretty much immune. Now they hurt like a MoFo) so I'm starting to shift to old worlds and hair free new worlds. Plus, it gives them a heck of a lot more personality to be more defensive, which I find more enjoyable in a way. Lastly, knowing they have potent venom gives me a a bigger amount of respect with them so I'm likely to not take risks and possibly make a mistake that could injure me or the T.

It's almost as if more potent = more attractive to me. Venom is super interesting.


----------



## freedumbdclxvi (Dec 11, 2014)

ArachnoFreak666 said:


> To each there own, didnt say you shouldnt buy one, i just dont see a reason to, for me a T is fine enough. Last thing i need is a very dangerous scorpion in my T room when my girlfriend is in there feeding the Ts. Just not my cup of tea, thats all.


Does your girlfriend like to reach in and play around with highly venomous inverts?  If not, she'd be at pretty much zero risk of any injury.  As you said, to each their own, but your statement wasn't a "not my cup of tea" opinion but a "no reason anyone should buy one" line that tends to be what HSUS and the like say about snakes or spiders.  *shrug*

---------- Post added 12-11-2014 at 06:55 PM ----------




Methal said:


> AHMERGERD!!!12 you Can NOT have your own opinion!!11 making baby jesus cry!:sarcasm:
> 
> I understand that one completely. No explanation required. ...unless of course you are spreading blatantly wrong info like "rosies jump 3 feet, and kill tigers with a gaze of their eye!" I dont think anyone here would huff and puff at anyone's simple opinion =)
> 
> and if they do, just think "welp thats an idiot" and /ignore /move on


i guess when HSUS wants to get legislation passed against keeping exotics - as they have have been doing and have the means to do so for years to come - we should all just let it go, since that's just their "opinion".

Someone says "i don't want to own hot inverts"?  Fine and dandy.  When someone says "there's no reason anyone should buy them", I'm going to say something.

Reactions: Like 5


----------



## Venom (Dec 11, 2014)

Be sure to write up a nice, detailed bite report for us! Keep a log of how you feel. 

And remember, this is for posterity, so please, be honest. What did this do to you?

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Poec54 (Dec 11, 2014)

klawfran3 said:


> Venom is super interesting.


Until you get bit.


----------



## ArachnoFreak666 (Dec 11, 2014)

freedumbdclxvi said:


> Does your girlfriend like to reach in and play around with highly venomous inverts?  If not, she'd be at pretty much zero risk of any injury.  As you said, to each their own, but your statement wasn't a "not my cup of tea" opinion but a "no reason anyone should buy one" line that tends to be what HSUS and the like say about snakes or spiders.  *shrug*


actually i said "i dont see a reason for anyone to buy one" when i put the "i dont see" infront of that sentence, it makes it a statement that is just my view and opinion on it. and actually yes she does reach her hand in whenever she is feeding the inverts i own. your getting a little bit too defensive over a little comment that meant nothing at all. you have your opinion i have mine, let me guess though, your still gonna try to find a way to quote me, while cutting key words out to make it look as though i meant something else when i really didnt, right?


----------



## klawfran3 (Dec 11, 2014)

Poec54 said:


> Until you get bit.


You've been working with tarantulas longer than I have been alive and from what I gather you haven't been bit once. So long as you take proper precautions and care, your chance of being bit is close to nil. I never have to get bit. Heck, there is no reason anyone should really be bit. If you don't act reckless, you won't be bit. They aren't magical animals, it's just a speedy spider.


----------



## freedumbdclxvi (Dec 11, 2014)

ArachnoFreak666 said:


> actually i said "i dont see a reason for anyone to buy one" when i put the "i dont see" infront of that sentence, it makes it a statement that is just my view and opinion on it. and actually yes she does reach her hand in whenever she is feeding the inverts i own. your getting a little bit too defensive over a little comment that meant nothing at all. you have your opinion i have mine, let me guess though, your still gonna try to find a way to quote me, while cutting key words out to make it look as though i meant something else when i really didnt, right?


So maybe you ought to tell her *not* to put her hand in the highly venomous invert's enclosure?   Just a thought...

also, in your first post, which i quoted fully, you said there's no reason, then backtracked into adding "i just don't see" in the second quote when i called you out on it.

---------- Post added 12-11-2014 at 11:29 PM ----------




ArachnoFreak666 said:


> no idea. but they have very potent venom. if there was a bite report, it would probably be a family member writing it (if you catch my drift). i was going to buy one before from an LPS because i thought the name was cool, then i decided to talk to my friend about it that was into scorpions, and after listening to what he had to say, * there is no reason why anyone should ever buy one.* lol im just sticking with Ts.


for posterity.  Bold added.  Your excuse for *that* comment is...?


----------



## Martin1975 (Dec 11, 2014)

Genus: Haplopelma 
Specimen: hainanum


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/20192277/

Genus: Haplopelma 
Specimen: Lividum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/11692582/?i=6&from=haplopelma

---------- Post added 12-12-2014 at 04:46 AM ----------

Lampropelma nigerrimum, Pterinochilus murinus, Poecilotheria regalis

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/19776152/?i=3&from=poecilotheria

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/19776152/?i=2&from=/2772514/related

Reactions: Like 3


----------



## IHeartTs (Dec 12, 2014)

Martin1975 said:


> Genus: Haplopelma
> Specimen: hainanum
> 
> 
> ...


I read that second to last one before and it makes complete sense. Also G rosea venom is being studied as a treatment for muscular dystrophy.  Which is interesting because of how it works.


----------



## Martin1975 (Dec 12, 2014)

IHeartTs said:


> I read that second to last one before and it makes complete sense. Also G rosea venom is being studied as a treatment for muscular dystrophy.  Which is interesting because of how it works.


The first was to show that,this specimen had the highest peptide count of all venom tested so far.


----------



## Poec54 (Dec 12, 2014)

klawfran3 said:


> You've been working with tarantulas longer than I have been alive and from what I gather you haven't been bit once. So long as you take proper precautions and care, your chance of being bit is close to nil. I never have to get bit. Heck, there is no reason anyone should really be bit. If you don't act reckless, you won't be bit.


Started this hobby decades ago, my collection at this point is 60% OW, which have been my favorites from the beginning.  Haven't been bitted so far, but that's no guarantee it could never happen.  I'd like to think I can go the rest of my life without a bite.  I do a lot of breeding and upgrading of cage sizes, along with packing and unpacking shipments, so I am taking them in and out of cages frequently.  I have a much greater risk factor than most T owners.  

For the first time, I read thru some of the OW bite reports on this forum last night.  They're mostly from using hands where forceps and togs should be (animals defend their territory) and from handling (OW's!  what are they thinking?).  Just about all could easily have been avoided: sloppy techniques, complacency, and egos (thinking they're man enough to handle OW's like Brachypelma).  All of the bites I read involved male victims, and there's a lot of women in the hobby these days.  

Everyone here, let's make a point of calling out people who recommend OBT's, Poecs, and other OW's for beginners.  Enough of that nonsense.

---------- Post added 12-12-2014 at 06:16 AM ----------




Martin1975 said:


> The first was to show that,this specimen had the highest peptide count of all venom tested so far.


Not totally surprising, as they live in a very harsh environment and every meal counts.

Reactions: Like 3


----------



## Martin1975 (Dec 12, 2014)

Poec54 said:


> Started this hobby decades ago, my collection at this point is 60% OW, which have been my favorites from the beginning.  Haven't been bitted so far, but that's no guarantee it could never happen.  I'd like to think I can go the rest of my life without a bite.  I do a lot of breeding and upgrading of cage sizes, along with packing and unpacking shipments, so I am taking them in and out of cages frequently.  I have a much greater risk factor than most T owners.
> 
> For the first time, I read thru some of the OW bite reports on this forum last night.  They're mostly from using hands where forceps and togs should be (animals defend their territory) and from handling (OW's!  what are they thinking?).  Just about all could easily have been avoided: sloppy techniques, complacency, and egos (thinking they're man enough to handle OW's like Brachypelma).  All of the bites I read involved male victims, and there's a lot of women in the hobby these days.
> 
> ...


Not trying to step on anyone's toes,but I had to post the links since many do not realise what they have in their collection. I have H.schmidti H.longepipes and lividum,not to mention Lampropelma etc. I just hope when some rehouse handle etc,they go to these links and read up. These aren't speculated accounts,but test data etc.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## ArachnoFreak666 (Dec 12, 2014)

freedumbdclxvi said:


> So maybe you ought to tell her *not* to put her hand in the highly venomous invert's enclosure?   Just a thought...
> 
> also, in your first post, which i quoted fully, you said there's no reason, then backtracked into adding "i just don't see" in the second quote when i called you out on it.
> 
> ...


I do... and she trys to tell me that she only feeds the more calm ones, like the B. smithi, A. avic, B. boehmie, ect. but I have walked in the T room once before and noticed that the new OBT's enclosure's lid was loosely put back on... so I know she still feeds the more aggressive and venomous ones. as for the comment, I just went back and looked... guess you were right... I was thinking I said "I don't see" but I guess not, that was what I was thinking though when I wrote the comment.... I don't care what other people own as pets, me personally, I wouldn't own one of those scorps, maybe a emporer scorpion, but thats about it.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## IHeartTs (Dec 12, 2014)

Martin1975 said:


> The first was to show that,this specimen had the highest peptide count of all venom tested so far.


Yeah I read it. I wonder how much genetics comes into play.  It sounds like all OW  T venom works by the same mechanism but there's variance in strength depending on the genus and species.  I kinda wanna know which proteins work where and which are just irrelevant.  RT-PCR would be useful here.


----------



## Martin1975 (Dec 12, 2014)

IHeartTs said:


> Yeah I read it. I wonder how much genetics comes into play.  It sounds like all OW  T venom works by the same mechanism but there's variance in strength depending on the genus and species.  I kinda wanna know which proteins work where and which are just irrelevant.  RT-PCR would be useful here.


I would say it is genus dependant,like so far from what I've read Haplopelma Lampropelma stromatopelma Poecilotheria are prominent,obviously I almost forgot OBT's. What I mean with the above,a certain genus has a certain strength or level of strength. So looking at the tarantula that scored the highest,I suspect all in that genus will follow suite.


----------



## Tim Benzedrine (Dec 12, 2014)

Poec54 said:


> Everyone here, let's make a point of calling out people who recommend OBT's, Poecs, and other OW's for beginners.  Enough of that nonsense.
> 
> ---------- Post added 12-12-2014 at 06:16 AM ----------


Apart from the inevitable flame wars that will result, I agree. Last night I composed a rather lengthy thread about that trend, along with a good bit of how what really gives the ARA groups ammo is injuries and escapes involving exotics.  I decided it was a little too preachy and abandoned it. 
I know that the incident in Ohio back in 2011 triggered several DWA laws going into place, including where I live. The law here is being contested because it was poorly thought out and even lawmakers who were in favour admitted it needs work.

This comment in an article about the controversial law was pretty telling: "supporters of the law pointed to the release of dozens of tigers, lions, bears and other animals from a Zanesville, Ohio, facility in 2011 as a reason to have stricter standards."

 As an amusing aside, as it was initially written, you could have kept a gorilla, they sort of forgot to include those. I'm not sure if chimps were included, but I'd rather take my chances with a tiger than one of those things. At least a tiger will just usually try to dispatch you, chimps like to castrate and rip faces off!


Granted, there is a big difference between lions and tigers and Ts (Oh my!) but the fact is that whenever somebody gets careless or acts irresponsibly, it simply gives leverage to those whose agenda is not just to stop the keeping of dangerous animals, but virtually ALL animals. In other words, if a 14 year old in Pedipalpia, Idaho gets tagged by an OBT and has a really bad reaction to it, the media will come sniffing around because as the saying goes, "if it bleeds, it leads". And for the most part, lawmakers would not bother with differentiating between NW and OW species, it is far easier to just jot down "all venomous spiders." and call it a day. even the most experienced keeper can have a mishap, but I think the odds are exponentially higher with a beginner, especially one that based his or her choice on the recommendation that the risk is overrated.

Reactions: Like 4


----------



## catfishrod69 (Dec 12, 2014)

I live about 40 minutes east of zanesville ohio. It was a horrible thing that happened, and put a massive hurt on the hobby. Too bad the pen pushers sitting behind desks couldnt tell the difference between a rattlesnake and a water buffalo. Since that escapade, they have banned venomous snakes, and many other things here. Here is a list of what all that ban includes. 

http://melissaasmith.hubpages.com/hub/ohiopetban


Tim Benzedrine said:


> Zanesville, Ohio, facility in 2011


----------



## IHeartTs (Dec 12, 2014)

Martin1975 said:


> I would say it is genus dependant,like so far from what I've read Haplopelma Lampropelma stromatopelma Poecilotheria are prominent,obviously I almost forgot OBT's. What I mean with the above,a certain genus has a certain strength or level of strength. So looking at the tarantula that scored the highest,I suspect all in that genus will follow suite.


I would assume it's genus dependent as well. But it would be kinda cool to look into just because there might be  small but significant differences between species. Like I mentioned earlier in the thread,  I'd love to start a research project on T venom.


----------



## Ultum4Spiderz (Dec 12, 2014)

catfishrod69 said:


> I live about 40 minutes east of zanesville ohio. It was a horrible thing that happened, and put a massive hurt on the hobby. Too bad the pen pushers sitting behind desks couldnt tell the difference between a rattlesnake and a water buffalo. Since that escapade, they have banned venomous snakes, and many other things here. Here is a list of what all that ban includes.
> 
> http://melissaasmith.hubpages.com/hub/ohiopetban


+1 Yeah they can pass any law, & forget bill of rights/constitution most laws contradict it(NDAA act & a lot of taxes added after 1915).
Wow all because a crazy guy let them free?  Didn't the city kill all the animals he let free, Euthanasia is animal cruelty.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Martin1975 (Dec 12, 2014)

IHeartTs said:


> I would assume it's genus dependent as well. But it would be kinda cool to look into just because there might be  small but significant differences between species. Like I mentioned earlier in the thread,  I'd love to start a research project on T venom.


Well first step would to be to draw similarities between genus bite reports,then compare intensity between different genera.
Example: 
Haplopelma caused so and so reactions  in cases documented,effects lasted so long intensity downsized over x period etc. Then take the next genus doing the same,and so on with others. You will be able to distinguish level of severity in the end,since if I am suspecting correctly on average the same genus will score highest in after effects etc.


----------



## catfishrod69 (Dec 12, 2014)

The sheriffs/deputies that showed up on the scene, shot most of the animals, but a few were relocated to the columbus zoo. Then the mans wife had to fight to get them back. They even shot animals like camels. Seriously, what the heck is a camel going to do to anyone. Basically a bunch of morons that dont understand, so they dont care. Human life is the only thing that is important, in the eyes of the human race. 





Ultum4Spiderz said:


> Didn't the city kill all the animals he let free


----------



## IHeartTs (Dec 13, 2014)

Martin1975 said:


> Well first step would to be to draw similarities between genus bite reports,then compare intensity between different genera.
> Example:
> Haplopelma caused so and so reactions  in cases documented,effects lasted so long intensity downsized over x period etc. Then take the next genus doing the same,and so on with others. You will be able to distinguish level of severity in the end,since if I am suspecting correctly on average the same genus will score highest in after effects etc.


I'll have a lot of bite reports to go through.  I'd have to keep it small though.  I do wanna look at genetics after going through bite reports so I'd have to find a professor at school that will work with me and pick the genera to compare.  Maybe I'll find something interesting.


----------



## Martin1975 (Dec 13, 2014)

IHeartTs said:


> I'll have a lot of bite reports to go through.  I'd have to keep it small though.  I do wanna look at genetics after going through bite reports so I'd have to find a professor at school that will work with me and pick the genera to compare.  Maybe I'll find something interesting.


Well if you do,it would be huge fun in my opinion. In the end maybe like a chart could be drawn up,might not happen overnight but worth the effort. 

http://www.tarantulaforum.com/index.php?threads/1755/


----------



## Sana (Dec 14, 2014)

I would definitely be interested to see what you come up with if you do it, IHeart.  Let us know if you do take it on.


----------



## gizmosdeath (Dec 14, 2014)

IHeartTs said:


> I'll have a lot of bite reports to go through.  I'd have to keep it small though.  I do wanna look at genetics after going through bite reports so I'd have to find a professor at school that will work with me and pick the genera to compare.  Maybe I'll find something interesting.


I don't know too much about T venom or venom in general but I have heard that poison dart frogs in captivity aren't toxic due to something they are lacking in their diet. Would be interesting to know if wild T venom is the same. Are wild T's more potent than captive due to the fact that they have a wider range of prey items who, in turn, have a wider range of food sources?


----------



## Poec54 (Dec 14, 2014)

gizmosdeath said:


> I don't know too much about T venom or venom in general but I have heard that poison dart frogs in captivity aren't toxic due to something they are lacking in their diet. Would be interesting to know if wild T venom is the same. Are wild T's more potent than captive due to the fact that they have a wider range of prey items who, in turn, have a wider range of food sources?


After reading some of the bite reports, I certainly can't say OW's venoms seem to be lacking anything.  Just ask Methal about the week he's had.  There may be individual species that depend on specific prey to develop stronger venom, but overall it wouldn't seem that the family requires that.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Methal (Dec 14, 2014)

Ultum4Spiderz said:


> +1 Yeah they can pass any law, & forget bill of rights/constitution most laws contradict it(NDAA act & a lot of taxes added after 1915).
> Wow all because a crazy guy let them free?  Didn't the city kill all the animals he let free, Euthanasia is animal cruelty.


^ this right here. I would agree 100% I really wish Government would keep their uneducated moronic laws out of my face. lol

Yeah I got bit,(though its more of a 'graze' than a true bite) but it was my own fault. However its my right to get bit. back off and quit trying to protect stupid from being stupid. It cant be done.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## IHeartTs (Dec 14, 2014)

Martin1975 said:


> Well if you do,it would be huge fun in my opinion. In the end maybe like a chart could be drawn up,might not happen overnight but worth the effort.
> 
> http://www.tarantulaforum.com/index.php?threads/1755/


Oh I know. I'd need to get a hold of some venom too. If I can get support from a professor I'm gonna attempt it. It would be nice if I found something.


----------



## Methal (Dec 14, 2014)

gizmosdeath said:


> I don't know too much about T venom or venom in general but I have heard that poison dart frogs in captivity aren't toxic due to something they are lacking in their diet. Would be interesting to know if wild T venom is the same. Are wild T's more potent than captive due to the fact that they have a wider range of prey items who, in turn, have a wider range of food sources?


This might have some merit. but I wouldn't test it =) it might just as well be a shop keepers sales tactic to make a buck. Their poison is made of the stuff they eat, modified (sometimes by as little as 1 molecule) from its original form. Wisdom would say that it doesn't matter what they eat, nature will find a way. (wouldn't the colors dim/dull if something was off in their diet?) Science may say something entirely different =)


----------



## IHeartTs (Dec 14, 2014)

gizmosdeath said:


> I don't know too much about T venom or venom in general but I have heard that poison dart frogs in captivity aren't toxic due to something they are lacking in their diet. Would be interesting to know if wild T venom is the same. Are wild T's more potent than captive due to the fact that they have a wider range of prey items who, in turn, have a wider range of food sources?


That would be interesting as well but you'd need an actual field researcher to find out. You'd need to know if their diet contributes anything to their venom production or if it's solely genetics. Reading bite reports, I'd agree with poec, that they don't seem to be lacking anything.  But then again people who live in regions where highly venomous Ts live, don't post bite reports.  To answer this question you can't rely on human testimony,  you'd need to do it in a lab. You'd probably also need to study their hunting and feeding behavior in the wild. This would be pretty cool though.


----------



## Methal (Dec 14, 2014)

IHeartTs said:


> Oh I know. I'd need to get a hold of some venom too. If I can get support from a professor I'm gonna attempt it. It would be nice if I found something.


Venom is a fun thing to play with. Put it with blood and watch what it does. With RattleSnake venom the blood turns to one gelatinous mass. I wonder if some T venom would do the same thing. 

I dont even know if OBT venom is Hemotoxic, neurotoxic, or something else or a combo of a few. Rattle Snake venom is mostly Hemotoxic however it also has Neurotoxins, You know that old garbage that a baby rattle snake is more venomous because it some how can 'choose' to inject more than an adult? (or hasn't 'learned' how much to use) Pure garbage! there is so much wrong with that statement it would take way to long to go into. THe truth is that the younger the rattler the more Neurotoxic components their venom has. I would suspect that OBT Venom has Neurotoxic components, having now experienced both a black widow bite, (highly neurotoxic) and an obt bite. They are quite similar, different degrees, but similar side effects (numbness, tingling, cramps etc.)
church time lol gotta get the kids dressed. i'll pester yall more. and I need to update my bite report. All symptoms are pretty much gone.


----------



## Martin1975 (Dec 14, 2014)

IHeartTs said:


> Oh I know. I'd need to get a hold of some venom too. If I can get support from a professor I'm gonna attempt it. It would be nice if I found something.


Well from my side,best of luck and keep me if possible updated would love to see what you find. 

http://www.tarantulaforum.com/index.php?threads/1755/


----------



## ratluvr76 (Dec 14, 2014)

gizmosdeath said:


> I don't know too much about T venom or venom in general but I have heard that poison dart frogs in captivity aren't toxic due to something they are lacking in their diet. Would be interesting to know if wild T venom is the same. Are wild T's more potent than captive due to the fact that they have a wider range of prey items who, in turn, have a wider range of food sources?





Poec54 said:


> After reading some of the bite reports, I certainly can't say OW's venoms seem to be lacking anything.  Just ask Methal about the week he's had.  There may be individual species that depend on specific prey to develop stronger venom, but overall it wouldn't seem that the family requires that.


I am with Poec on this one. I don't think T's are lacking anything for venom production. The poison dart frogs exude the toxins from their skin as a by product from their diet. The frogs don't actually make the toxin like the venom that snakes and spiders produce. The venom is produced in glands that are internal. The frogs toxin is as I said, a by product. I think of it as similar to sweat. Humans exude by products of what they eat in sweat which is excreted from pores in the skin...

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## IHeartTs (Dec 14, 2014)

Methal said:


> Venom is a fun thing to play with. Put it with blood and watch what it does. With RattleSnake venom the blood turns to one gelatinous mass. I wonder if some T venom would do the same thing.
> 
> I dont even know if OBT venom is Hemotoxic, neurotoxic, or something else or a combo of a few. Rattle Snake venom is mostly Hemotoxic however it also has Neurotoxins, You know that old garbage that a baby rattle snake is more venomous because it some how can 'choose' to inject more than an adult? (or hasn't 'learned' how much to use) Pure garbage! there is so much wrong with that statement it would take way to long to go into. THe truth is that the younger the rattler the more Neurotoxic components their venom has. I would suspect that OBT Venom has Neurotoxic components, having now experienced both a black widow bite, (highly neurotoxic) and an obt bite. They are quite similar, different degrees, but similar side effects (numbness, tingling, cramps etc.)
> church time lol gotta get the kids dressed. i'll pester yall more. and I need to update my bite report. All symptoms are pretty much gone.


I saw the snake video. It was AWESOME.  I think it might be myotoxic actually.  I read something about rose hair venom either closing or cause flooding of ion channels causing the muclse to digest itself (according to the article).  Before I read it I saw that OW venom causes a lot of muscular symptoms. There's a condition called rhabdomyolysis that causes the exact same symptoms but more severe.  People have had elevated CK levels with T bites which indicates muscle breakdown. Look up rhabdo. Very similar. Just a theory.  Could be 100% wrong.


----------



## Methal (Dec 14, 2014)

IHeartTs said:


> I saw the snake video. It was AWESOME.  I think it might be myotoxic actually.  I read something about rose hair venom either closing or cause flooding of ion channels causing the muclse to digest itself (according to the article).  Before I read it I saw that OW venom causes a lot of muscular symptoms. There's a condition called rhabdomyolysis that causes the exact same symptoms but more severe.  People have had elevated CK levels with T bites which indicates muscle breakdown. Look up rhabdo. Very similar. Just a theory.  Could be 100% wrong.


Yeah that makes sense. If it didn't hurt like hell i'd get bit again and this time take a sample of my blood to the university lab for analysis. That would be cool to find out.


----------



## IHeartTs (Dec 14, 2014)

Methal said:


> Yeah that makes sense. If it didn't hurt like hell i'd get bit again and this time take a sample of my blood to the university lab for analysis. That would be cool to find out.


Haha muscle tissue and blood would be needed. You can only get so much from blood. Better to go straight to the source if there's evidence. Man I hope Im able to do some research on this. Idk if the school will want giant spiders running around lol


----------



## Methal (Dec 14, 2014)

IHeartTs said:


> Haha muscle tissue and blood would be needed. You can only get so much from blood. Better to go straight to the source if there's evidence. Man I hope Im able to do some research on this. Idk if the school will want giant spiders running around lol


"HAI GUYZ! Here is some of my blood, and muscle tissue. I just got bit by this! can you tell me what its doing to me?" 

I'd pay to see that.


----------



## IHeartTs (Dec 14, 2014)

Methal said:


> "HAI GUYZ! Here is some of my blood, and muscle tissue. I just got bit by this! can you tell me what its doing to me?"
> 
> I'd pay to see that.


So would I.


----------



## gizmosdeath (Dec 14, 2014)

ratluvr76 said:


> I am with Poec on this one. I don't think T's are lacking anything for venom production. The poison dart frogs exude the toxins from their skin as a by product from their diet. The frogs don't actually make the toxin like the venom that snakes and spiders produce. The venom is produced in glands that are internal. The frogs toxin is as I said, a by product. I think of it as similar to sweat. Humans exude by products of what they eat in sweat which is excreted from pores in the skin...


Cool that makes a little more sense.


----------



## Methal (Dec 15, 2014)

ratluvr76 said:


> I am with Poec on this one. I don't think T's are lacking anything for venom production. The poison dart frogs exude the toxins from their skin as a by product from their diet. The frogs don't actually make the toxin like the venom that snakes and spiders produce. The venom is produced in glands that are internal. The frogs toxin is as I said, a by product. I think of it as similar to sweat. Humans exude by products of what they eat in sweat which is excreted from pores in the skin...


that would be cool to find out. Change their diet and make them more or less toxic.


----------

