# Eastern ribbon snake



## SandDeku (May 28, 2011)

Soooo when I went hiking yesterday. I came across a new find(well atleast for me), I found a ribbon snake. I figured hey maybe I can keep it and feed some of the excess toadlets to it. Even though I don't want to feed toadlets I figured it'd be a good idea like someone else suggested to lower the numbers. I figured I can feed it worms, crickets, and minnows after it consumes a deal of toadlets. I think its a ribbon snake cause it looks like this: 

http://membrane.com/global_warming/notes/snake/Eastern_Ribbon_Snake2.jpg

I think its shedding or going to be shedding soon since its eyes are milky white and it was under a large "cabinet"(Yes a cabinet--- people litter where I go...) under the afternoon sun. First try to catch it I was scared of being bit(not well versed with snakes didn't know if it was a poisenous  snake or not... still not 100% sure lol. more like 95%), then it got away and into the tall grasses. I went away to look one last time and when I go back to the same place 5minutes later the lil' vermin is in there again lol! So second try I grab it and almost put it in the container but it got out. lol. and into the grasses. Third time I walk away for 5mins and go back in there and it gets out but I noticed the tail... so I tug on it and I finally m anaged to grab it and put it in the container. Currently its in an exoterra. A small exoterra-- but for now itll work since the snake is only 6inch long.
Plus my very first pet snake. c:


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## Crysta (May 28, 2011)

Thamnophis sauritus, or Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis...... hmm

that picture you have linked is sirtalis.... im pretty sure.. 

Can you get a picture of yours? 

Also, I remember reading New-Jersy snake article back in the day, that I just found again.

"The venomous snakes of New Jersey are feared the most due to misinformation
and misunderstanding. Each year many non-venomous
snakes are misidentified as venomous snakes and are killed needlessly,
but all snakes in New Jersey are protected under the NJ Endangered
and Nongame Species Conservation Act (N.J.S.A. 23:2A-1-13), which
makes it illegal for anyone to kill, collect, or harass our native snake
species. Often, the non-venomous northern water snake is misidentified
as the water moccasin (cottonmouth) which does not occur in
New Jersey."

http://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/ensp/pdf/snake_broch07.pdf

you should let it go, and buy a captive bred wandering garter snake, or something similar in a petstore.

[edit]
let it go in the same location.


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## SandDeku (May 28, 2011)

Crysta said:


> Thamnophis sauritus, or Thamnophis sirtalus sirtalus...... hmm
> 
> that picture you have linked is sirtalus.... im pretty sure..
> 
> ...


Mk. Thanks. I don't have a pdf reader so I can't look at the laws itself... I tried many times. :/ But ill go swing to the petstore later on. Ill put the guy a bit farther from where I found him since people tend to go there alot... I don't want the poor guy hurt. 

Uhh according to what he looks like--- like a ribbon snake. Is he/her dangerous? I don't know if its an actual ribbon snake. It looks certainly like one. But Iam afraid of getting hurt or something.

Maybe ill buy a rough green snake. Or the smooth one. I forgot which one was the one I was recommended last time. I just like the active small and slender snakes. Not a fan of big snakes over 4ft. I prefer the small 2-3foot snake at most. lol and green snakes be my favorite due to their color and active behaviour as well as they go well with a well planted terrarium and are semi-arboreal but not full on. 

My room is getting done this weekend and Iam going to buy a ton of feeder insects now so I can start breeding colonies of the insects. As well as gave me more space for smaller terrariums. My collection/hobby is increasing. Hopefully that's not bad. ^^;;; I hear alot of people having a ton of pets. But I kinda have a visual of them as "ornamental" because... Well when I think of pet  I think of dog/cat/rabbit/hamster/etc. or even bird. 

But when I have the mind set of "ornamental" its the same care just with the sign of "do not touch" lol. You know? 

I guess I  have a lot of stuff since I used to live in a place where you didn't need a terrarium or a pet since most of the stuff you could even find it in your yard. lol. I became a hobbyst because when I came to america I grew upset at the fact of "winter". Being stuck indoors plus not being able to see animals daily wasn't good for me. Good thing I haven't done much with the snake. It's still in a small terrarium. Didn't feed it or anything. 

Umm do you know any where good that sells snakes? Like okay googling(for those about to refer me to google) is okay--- but I'm asking for opinions--- i already know the places that sell snakes. e____e 

Just asking for opinions for a good place that sells smallish snakes(small is prefered because I like slender looking snakes and I like seeing them in medium sized terrariums like 40gs).

P.s. Should i find some insects outside and feed it before I let it go?


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## Crysta (May 28, 2011)

SandDeku said:


> Mk. Thanks. I don't have a pdf reader so I can't look at the laws itself... I tried many times. :/ But ill go swing to the petstore later on. Ill put the guy a bit farther from where I found him since people tend to go there alot... I don't want the poor guy hurt.
> 
> Uhh according to what he looks like--- like a ribbon snake. Is he/her dangerous? I don't know if its an actual ribbon snake. It looks certainly like one. But Iam afraid of getting hurt or something.
> 
> ...


I said Thamnophis sirtalis, because in the picture you linked, it's a garter snake. It's missing the head markings of a Thamnophis sauritus..  

And no, dont feed it before you let it go. It's better if you leave the snake at the same location, even if people sometimes go there, they will do fine. Not many people go back 3 times to try and capture it. 

Rough green snakes and smooth snakes are hard to keep in captivity. Plus, due to NJ's snake protection law you cant keep this species

From the pdf link before:
20. Smooth green snake (Opheodrys vernalis):
117/8”-26”L. This snake is in NJ’s
northern region found primarily
in grasses, meadows, open
woods, and other
terrestrial habitats
where it
blends easily.
This snake does
not display the climbing ability of the rough green snake.
It has smooth, light green scales with a white, yellow, or
pale green belly. They have smooth scales. The eggs are
laid in July and hatch in September.


21. Rough green snake (Opheodrys aestivus):
20”-455/58”L. This snake is arboreal,
frequently found in vegetation
overhanging water in NJ’s
southern region and is considered
common in its limited
range. It is very similar in
appearance to the smooth green
snake except that its scales are
keeled giving them a rough texture.
It is often called the “vine
snake” because
of its slender,
light green body
and plain white,
yellow, or pale
green belly. Three
to 13 eggs are
laid in July and
August, hatching
in August and
September.


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## SandDeku (May 28, 2011)

Crysta said:


> I said Thamnophis sirtalis, because in the picture you linked, it's a garter snake. It's missing the head markings of a Thamnophis sauritus..
> 
> And no, dont feed it before you let it go. It's better if you leave the snake at the same location, even if people sometimes go there, they will do fine. Not many people go back 3 times to try and capture it.
> 
> ...


I have a permit... So read these please:

http://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/permreq.htm

http://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/xemptspp.htm

I mean its not really illegal to own according to what it says there. But ill see about how I can find a pdf reader... And maybe ill be able to look more indepth.


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## pavel (May 28, 2011)

Before buying a snake, please be sure you first research its needs.  For example, there are very very few snake species that will eat any kind of insect.  Garter/ribbon snakes are no exception -- they will not eat crickets or other such insects.  Using any kind of wild caught prey -- entails the risk of introducing parasites to the snake.

DO NOT rely on the advice of folks working at a pet store.  All too often they are clueless.

You are likely to find better deals and better variety of offerings at a herp show.  If I were you, I'd check to see if there are any in an acceptable driving distance.


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## SandDeku (May 28, 2011)

pavel said:


> Before buying a snake, please be sure you first research its needs.  For example, there are very very few snake species that will eat any kind of insect.  Garter/ribbon snakes are no exception -- they will not eat crickets or other such insects.  Using any kind of wild caught prey -- entails the risk of introducing parasites to the snake.
> 
> DO NOT rely on the advice of folks working at a pet store.  All too often they are clueless.
> 
> You are likely to find better deals and better variety of offerings at a herp show.  If I were you, I'd check to see if there are any in an acceptable driving distance.


I know what the diet of these snakes are. Ribbon snakes: small frogs, tadpoles, and minnows. Garter snakes: small frogs, tadpoles, minnows, occassional insects, and earthworms are taken. 

Green snakes: Insects--- or so is what googling says and books. 
I know about the care for snakes. Basically a tank the size of the full length of the snakes body with a couple of inches extra(FOR THE SEDENTARY snakes) for the active snakes(Atleast 1ft or 2 extra in length and height.) garter, corn, and ribbon snakes are all active snakes. Milksnakes as well are active. Boids, pythons, etc. Are all ussually calm and inactive. Active species tend to be more on the "coloubrids" if Iam not mistaken.


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## Crysta (May 29, 2011)

woo  good thing you have a permit! 
Your probably should look into it more though, maybe because of the amount of toadlits you have your over your limit? lol who knows.

good luck with the snake if you decide to keep it - but I always prefer buying captive bred.


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## SandDeku (May 29, 2011)

Crysta said:


> woo  good thing you have a permit!
> Your probably should look into it more though, maybe because of the amount of toadlits you have your over your limit? lol who knows.
> 
> good luck with the snake if you decide to keep it - but I always prefer buying captive bred.


I don't think there's any "limit" to owning pets. As I been told by people at other forums. Many many many people. I know many people with over 20-40reptiles and amphibians. In fact I know one of my "Friends" online is a currator for a museum or was. He's well "older" than me by many years. But I think he has atleast 20species of tree frogs. 10species of dart/mantella frogs. 1 turtle. 5 newt species. 10fish species, etc. 

He told me that there's really no limit legally to what one can own. As long as I can provide optimal care for each and everyone of them then its fine.


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## pitbulllady (May 29, 2011)

The snake pictured in the link at the top is a checkered-phase Eastern Garter, NOT a Ribbon.  While similar, there are some care differences.  I've never known a Ribbon to eat anthing other than fish, while Garters will eat fish, amphibians and earthworms, and can usually easily be conditioned to eat rodents through scenting.  Ribbons are much more of a slender build, too, and tend to be more nervous, high-strung snakes.  Both possess mild venom through a Duvernoy's gland, delivered by grooved, enlarged rear fangs, though they are not considered medically significant.  I can tell you from experience, though, that Garter Snake bites HURT way out of proportion to the size of the snake, especially if they get a good "chew" on you, and some swelling and itching is normal.  I've never known a Ribbon to even try to bite, but some Garters can be quite "testy".

Green Snakes are not easy captives, and I really don't recommend them.  They can be among the most difficult of our native snakes to maintain in captivity.

pitbulllady


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## SandDeku (May 29, 2011)

pitbulllady said:


> The snake pictured in the link at the top is a checkered-phase Eastern Garter, NOT a Ribbon.  While similar, there are some care differences.  I've never known a Ribbon to eat anthing other than fish, while Garters will eat fish, amphibians and earthworms, and can usually easily be conditioned to eat rodents through scenting.  Ribbons are much more of a slender build, too, and tend to be more nervous, high-strung snakes.  Both possess mild venom through a Duvernoy's gland, delivered by grooved, enlarged rear fangs, though they are not considered medically significant.  I can tell you from experience, though, that Garter Snake bites HURT way out of proportion to the size of the snake, especially if they get a good "chew" on you, and some swelling and itching is normal.  I've never known a Ribbon to even try to bite, but some Garters can be quite "testy".
> 
> Green Snakes are not easy captives, and I really don't recommend them.  They can be among the most difficult of our native snakes to maintain in captivity.
> 
> pitbulllady


Rough green snakes? I just like the color they posses. I thought garters and ribbon snakes don't even have venom. I know a lot of species of garter snakes. It's just sometimes a tad difficult to I.D. them when they have a "muddy" look. I released the lil' fella under the same place I found him at. Hope he does well. He was cute and beautiful.


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## pitbulllady (May 29, 2011)

All Natricine snakes have Duvernoy's glands, and mild venom.  Garters are rear-fanged, and their venom is neurotoxic, and very similar in composition to the venom of Boomslangs, just less toxic.  I've been bitten several times, and each time experienced intense burning and itching which was far out of proportion to the size of the bite.  Burning, itching and tingling lasted for several hours the last time I got nailed by a Garter.  Their close cousins, the Water Snakes, are also mildly venomous, and apparently have more of a hematoxic venom, with a mild anticoagulant that causes free bleeding for several minutes. I got tagged today by a huge female Banded that a friend of mine had just caught(and promptly slung towards me), the first time I've ever been bitten by a Banded that wasn't a feeding response, and I bled like the proverbial stuck pig.  I've never had the itching or pain with a Water Snake bite, though, like I have with Garter bites, even though Water Snakes are much larger.

If you're in NJ, any Garters you find will be Easterns.  They can be quite variable in appearance, even within the same litters.  You can have checkereds, stripes, combinations of the two patterns, greens, browns, golds, grays, and even blues(yes, even outside of FL-caught a few here in SC that were blue).

pitbulllady


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## Crysta (May 29, 2011)

Yeah, garter snake bites pack a punch. I don't usually get bit by them, but when I do the area sourounding the bite usually turns blue (for me) and itches like a sucker. 
Also I can attest to your blue snakes, i've found blue and red(with green and other colors mixed in their pattern.) versions of easterns up here in new-brunswick, and all silver ones as well(no green or other colors on that specimens body) but that was when I was 11-14 before I had a viable camera.

The only problem with gartersnakes,ribbonsnakes,redbelly snakes I have is with their poop. Due to their diet it has a different oder thats really gross compared to other fur eaters, etc. they also poop waaay more often. lol

Is this true with your watersnakes pitbulllady?


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## pitbulllady (May 30, 2011)

Crysta said:


> Yeah, garter snake bites pack a punch. I don't usually get bit by them, but when I do the area sourounding the bite usually turns blue (for me) and itches like a sucker.
> Also I can attest to your blue snakes, i've found blue and red(with green and other colors mixed in their pattern.) versions of easterns up here in new-brunswick, and all silver ones as well(no green or other colors on that specimens body) but that was when I was 11-14 before I had a viable camera.
> 
> The only problem with gartersnakes,ribbonsnakes,redbelly snakes I have is with their poop. Due to their diet it has a different oder thats really gross compared to other fur eaters, etc. they also poop waaay more often. lol
> ...


Yes, it is true, and it's one of the drawbacks to keeping them-you have to clean up behind them at least every other day, not only to keep the odor down, but to prevent their enclosure from becoming damp.  Surprisingly, they cannot tolerate dampmness and are very prone to scale rot, which is usually fatal by the time it's noticed.  Most Water Snakes and Garters can be switched over to rodents using scenting, though, and this does help, but I've never been able to get a Ribbon Snake to switch from anything but fish, and there are certain species of Water Snakes, namely those in that Brown-Green-Diamondback group, that just will not switch.  The Northerns/Midlands and the Plain-Belly Group(Red-Bellies, Yellow-Bellies)are the easiest, with Bandeds falling in the middle.

I've had the same experience as you with the Garter bites.  I'd really, really rather not get bitten by one of those little guys(though some of my girls are pushing the four-foot mark, so they are hardly "little").  I'll just take a bite from a Water Snake, since it only results in some little scratches-I really think that bleeding washes out most of the bacteria and nasty stuff-but if a Garter even acts like he's gonna tag me, I'll use a bag to pick him up and handle him.  Their bites feel like someone poured battery acid in 'em or something, and that itching is even worse!  It's that kind of maddening itch you get when you've had a tooth filled and the Novocaine is wearing off, deep down along the nerves, where you can scratch all you want and you can't feel yourself scratch, but the itch stays.

pitbulllady


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## SandDeku (May 31, 2011)

pitbulllady said:


> Yes, it is true, and it's one of the drawbacks to keeping them-you have to clean up behind them at least every other day, not only to keep the odor down, but to prevent their enclosure from becoming damp.  Surprisingly, they cannot tolerate dampmness and are very prone to scale rot, which is usually fatal by the time it's noticed.  Most Water Snakes and Garters can be switched over to rodents using scenting, though, and this does help, but I've never been able to get a Ribbon Snake to switch from anything but fish, and there are certain species of Water Snakes, namely those in that Brown-Green-Diamondback group, that just will not switch.  The Northerns/Midlands and the Plain-Belly Group(Red-Bellies, Yellow-Bellies)are the easiest, with Bandeds falling in the middle.
> 
> I've had the same experience as you with the Garter bites.  I'd really, really rather not get bitten by one of those little guys(though some of my girls are pushing the four-foot mark, so they are hardly "little").  I'll just take a bite from a Water Snake, since it only results in some little scratches-I really think that bleeding washes out most of the bacteria and nasty stuff-but if a Garter even acts like he's gonna tag me, I'll use a bag to pick him up and handle him.  Their bites feel like someone poured battery acid in 'em or something, and that itching is even worse!  It's that kind of maddening itch you get when you've had a tooth filled and the Novocaine is wearing off, deep down along the nerves, where you can scratch all you want and you can't feel yourself scratch, but the itch stays.
> 
> pitbulllady


youch. lol. Least I picked up my first snake. XD I was always afraid of em. Even if I didn't keep it. I'm still glad I "had" it for one day. 

though suddenly not too keen on getting into snakes. Ill just stick to my amphibians, turtle, and occassinal insects. Though I do keep fish and I may set up soon a tank for a large crab(dunno which species ill get yet) but atleast I can maintain them properly. Im almost done with my crew. lol

Maybe ill get stuff that I like to look at but are extremely delicate "preserved" and or can't keep..


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