# Praying Mantis and Emps living together.



## Predator (Sep 4, 2005)

A friend of mine caught a rather large praying mantis at work a few days ago.  He brought it over to my house since he had no where to house it.  Well I didnt really have anywhere to put it either besides in my tank with 2 adult emps.  So far its been 3 days and the praying mantis is still alive.  The mantis sticks to the high ground and jumps down to grab a cricket here and there.  So far it seems like this may work out.  Has anyone else tried this?  I kind of like the fact they may be able to co-exist together.  It adds more life to the tank.  I hope the mantis is smart enough to stay away from them which it seems to be.  I have watched him and he wont jump down for a cricket if he sees one of the emps out and about.


----------



## Empi (Sep 4, 2005)

It would not suprise me if the mantis survives. They are pretty smart little guys. I have crickets that survive for a long time and if a cricket can do it a mantis should have know problems. I have never heard of keeping mantids with emps, but I keep pill bugs and small pedes wih then and they co exist quite well.


----------



## david31337 (Sep 4, 2005)

empi said:
			
		

> It would not suprise me if the mantis survives. They are pretty smart little guys. I have crickets that survive for a long time and if a cricket can do it a mantis should have know problems. I have never heard of keeping mantids with emps, but I keep pill bugs and small pedes wih then and they co exist quite well.


I would not agree with that! Scorps are ambush hunters, and will nail the mantid at the first chance....It's slightly crule me thinks  :?
I keep both, but would never keep them 2gether!


----------



## Midnightcowboy (Sep 4, 2005)

That mantis is gonna meet a sticky end when he steps in the wrong place! My big emp goes for anything that moves, and I can't see a mantis surviving with mine too long. I think co-existing would be the wrong word, because the first chance the emps get, they will eat that mantis. Its like everyday would be a fight to survive for the little fella. It's only a matter of time, but I'm curious to see how long he lasts in there with them. Sooner or later he is bound to slip up lol, keep us posted on how he gets along!


----------



## Predator (Sep 4, 2005)

The mantis and emps encountered each other once but the mantis didnt even flinch until the emp ventured away.  He then made his way back up the glass.  Considering these 2 emps are very docile compared to some I have owned things might go ok.  I wouldnt doubt if the mantis did venture over their burrow and get yanked down below.  I just want to see how long they can live together.  I might add some more things in there so he dont have to go to the ground very often.


----------



## Beardo (Sep 4, 2005)

Why not just house the mantis seperately? Whats the point in keeping it with 2 Emperors? There isn't a good reason that I can think of.


----------



## Predator (Sep 4, 2005)

DavidBeard said:
			
		

> Why not just house the mantis seperately? Whats the point in keeping it with 2 Emperors? There isn't a good reason that I can think of.


Already said I dont have anywhere else to put it right now.  It kind of turned into an experiment.  Im thinking the mantis may be smart enough to survive.


----------



## Beardo (Sep 4, 2005)

Well, its a good thing the mantis is smart....obviously smarter than the person keeping it. If you don't have the space or capabilities to house an animal properly, then _don't keep it._ If the mantis get chowed on, its your own <edit> fault. Congrats on your gross negligence.


----------



## Predator (Sep 4, 2005)

DavidBeard said:
			
		

> Well, its a good thing the mantis is smart....obviously smarter than the person keeping it. If you don't have the space or capabilities to house an animal properly, then _don't keep it._ If the mantis get chowed on, its your own <edit> fault. Congrats on your gross negligence.


Thats a real mature way to put it.


----------



## Beardo (Sep 4, 2005)

Maturity includes being a responsible individual when it comes to owning and caring for live animals, which is something you are sorely lacking. <edit> leave the animals for the people who give a crap.


----------



## BigBadConrad (Sep 5, 2005)

Predator said:
			
		

> A friend of mine caught a rather large praying mantis at work a few days ago.  He brought it over to my house since he had no where to house it.
> 
> If you have nowhere to house it, why don't you let it go where you found it or nearby? He/she is about at the end of its run anyway so just let it try to find a mate and make more mantises for next year. Emps are African so of course they don't 'live together' with the mantis species you found.


----------



## Predator (Sep 5, 2005)

Some people here take things way to personally.


----------



## Farom (Sep 5, 2005)

Well put DavidB. :clap: 

  Thanks,
Andrew


----------



## WYSIWYG (Sep 5, 2005)

Predator said:
			
		

> Some people here take things way to personally.


Well, you have to admit that you are posting in a place where enthusiasts who care about inverts in general frequent.

My heart goes out to your little mantid.   He/she is at the end of its life cycle and is trapped in a place it cannot reproduce.    And it is probably under some serious stress too.

Imagine how YOU would feel living in a room with a couple of alligators hanging just below a low ceiling, having to sneak in between them to get your share of food.

Forget the experiment.  You don't have a place to house the critter so why not turn it loose?   Get some good pix so you can remember having it give it its freedom.   You'll feel much better than if you keep it and allow it to get munched by your scorps.

Wysi


----------



## maxamillian (Sep 5, 2005)

I use to breed mantids and had about 7 different species.  One summer I was feeding over 800 of them on a weekly basis.  To do that I had to keep and breed tons of stinky, smelly crickets  :wall: .  What would happen from time to time was that the crickets would escape and I would have to chase them down in my invert room.  Well, I decided that I would put some of the mantids to work and strategically placed a couple of them around my room.  I just let them roam around free in an attempt to catch the crickets that escaped.  I always made sure that I would spray the plants around my room to provide moisture for the mantids.  I didn't think that it would work because it seemed like the crickets only stayed on the ground and the mantids seemed to like hanging around the ceiling.  Well, to my surprise the mantids did get to the crickets on the ground that escaped and because of their success the rest of my house was cricket free   .

I don't know if you would want to try and let the mantis loose around your room...but if you're in a position to do that I think you might have some fun.  I would have friends that would come over and not realize that a mantis was hanging on the wall  just above them and so when I told them to look up they would be really surprised out...others thought it was cool.  

It turned out that the pair that i let loose in my room molted and one just happen to be a male and the other a female.  As you can see they happily got together and made me an egg sac that produced 78 little ones to add to my collection.


----------



## WYSIWYG (Sep 5, 2005)

Sounds like I need to do something like that.  I've got roaches escaping left and right and my husband is going to get extremely annoyed if he keeps seeing them get out.  (he's afraid they'll infest our home).

Thanks for the great story.  That seems like a decent suggestion if he doesn't want to let the critter go.  

Wysi


----------



## ScorpDude (Sep 5, 2005)

They require different care, how can you cater for them both in one viv? especially when one might try to eat the other.


----------



## jarrell (Sep 5, 2005)

yeah that sounds cruel your just gonna put a mantis in a scorpion cage to see how long it  survives. by now i wokuld hope you got another cage they only cost 10 dollars. but i guess it would be better if you just let him go.


----------



## Scorpionidad (Sep 5, 2005)

*Why not just...*

Why don't you do what I did a long time ago and let Mantis walk around the inside of your house? He should stay on the ceiling and chill like one I had. Plus maybe he'll get rid of some pests for ya LOL. Just watch your step in the morning so he don't become a permanent resident of the sole of your shoe...


----------



## ScorpDude (Sep 5, 2005)

OR... heres a crazy idea.

Let it go? you don't have the correct housing, its days with you are numbered so why keep it?


----------



## jarrell (Sep 5, 2005)

how long did the mantis stay in your house and how many you have roaming. that would be so cool. the mantis has to be local right.


----------



## John Bokma (Sep 5, 2005)

jarrell said:
			
		

> how long did the mantis stay in your house and how many you have roaming. that would be so cool. the mantis has to be local right.


local left is ok too


----------



## fscorpion (Sep 7, 2005)

Well, it looks like this "predator" guy is just another sick person who likes to torture animals with the excuse he is making an experiment. Oh, he has no place to put it but in the cage with scorpions. That would be a really nice idea to put him in a cage with aligators to see how much he will be smart and how long he will survive. Some people should be forbidden to keep animals, even invertebrated because even they are more decent creatures that this person...
Hope the mantis gets away and bites ur nose off...
Fscorpio


----------



## Hoosier (Sep 7, 2005)

Is this a joke?


----------



## parabuthus (Sep 7, 2005)

Although I respect opinions all around... and this is not something I would get overly uptight about, personally, I'd set the Mantis free dude. That is the honourable thing to do. Sure, it is just an insect, but I guess for some people, it is the principle of the matter. AGAIN, not my view necessarily... as I won't dare pass judegment on something I percieve as so trivial at this point in time for my own personal reasons of perspective, not to mention the world's. Your decision at the end of the day though, be well.


----------



## Predator (Sep 7, 2005)

fscorpion said:
			
		

> Well, it looks like this "predator" guy is just another sick person who likes to torture animals with the excuse he is making an experiment. Oh, he has no place to put it but in the cage with scorpions. That would be a really nice idea to put him in a cage with aligators to see how much he will be smart and how long he will survive. Some people should be forbidden to keep animals, even invertebrated because even they are more decent creatures that this person...
> Hope the mantis gets away and bites ur nose off...
> Fscorpio


Yea im really sick for putting them together.  The worst thing that could happen is the scorp eating the mantis.  Same thing as if the scorpion ate a cricket.  Who made you god and decided what foods are acceptable for them to eat.


----------



## BLS Blondi (Sep 7, 2005)

Well, eventually you WILL lose the mantis.  You have to ask yourself: would you lock your girlfriend up in a cage with 4 horny guys?  Think about it.


----------



## Beardo (Sep 7, 2005)

Thats a great attitude to have. I say we stick you in a tank with two 15 foot Nile Crocodiles and see how long you survive.


----------



## yuanti (Sep 7, 2005)

*saw this and just had to answer*

I've had my emperor scorpion for a couple months now.  He is in a 10 gal tank with sliding screen top and a UV blacklight/40watt light combo that is almost never on. 

I live in Charleston, SC and we have alot of tree frogs all over our house at night. So the first thing he really ate at home was a tree frog. So far he has eaten quite a few of those, a couple small toads, a large cricket i found along with a few large grasshoppers and some spiders I've managed to catch.  

About 2 weeks ago I was looking for something for him to eat and found a small green mantis on the back wall of the house. I put it in with my scorpion along with a small tree frog (same size of the mantis) and a small toad.   Ok so I had a small zoo in there.

All was good in the tank for a few days but then the mantis (who stayed on top of the tank 99% of the time ate the tree frog.  The toad burrowed into the substrate and then later the mantis was eaten by the scorpion....though his legs are still in there.

I let the small toad go later before he died of lack of food.

I bought some superworms and waxworms at the local Petsmart and my scorpion really seems to like both of those.


----------



## Andy (Sep 7, 2005)

DavidBeard said:
			
		

> Well, its a good thing the mantis is smart....obviously smarter than the person keeping it. If you don't have the space or capabilities to house an animal properly, then _don't keep it._ If the mantis get chowed on, its your own <edit> fault. Congrats on your gross negligence.



Do you wait til your crickets die of natural causes til you feed them to your scorps?


----------



## Beardo (Sep 7, 2005)

Andy said:
			
		

> Do you wait til your crickets die of natural causes til you feed them to your scorps?


No. Crickets are a commonly used prey source for insectivorous animals. Mantids are not. In some parts of the country Mantids are becoming very rare and I just feel that there are plenty more appropriate food sources. Just because you _can_ do something does not mean you _should_.


----------



## Predator (Sep 7, 2005)

DavidBeard said:
			
		

> No. Crickets are a commonly used prey source for insectivorous animals. Mantids are not. In some parts of the country Mantids are becoming very rare and I just feel that there are plenty more appropriate food sources. Just because you _can_ do something does not mean you _should_.



Just because they are commonly used doesnt make any difference between them and a mantis.  I see mantids getting eaten every summer in my backyard by wolf spiders.  They are fairly common here.


----------



## Beardo (Sep 7, 2005)

Mantids getting eaten by native spiders is completely different than getting eaten by an African scorpion. The only reason you are keeping these inverts together is in the hope you will see the final confrontation and be able to say "Ooh, cool"....which is a pathetic reason to keep an animal in sub-par conditions.


----------



## cacoseraph (Sep 8, 2005)

Predator said:
			
		

> Yea im really sick for putting them together.  The worst thing that could happen is the scorp eating the mantis.  Same thing as if the scorpion ate a cricket.  Who made you god and decided what foods are acceptable for them to eat.


i'd just like to point out that roaches and mantids are all in the same Order, Dictyoptera

there is virtually no _reasonable_ argument why this dude is a demon for feeding mantids to an emp and the rest of us feeding Discoids and lobsters to pets are on the side of the angels...


----------



## Billdolfski (Sep 8, 2005)

cacoseraph said:
			
		

> i'd just like to point out that roaches and mantids are all in the same Order, Dictyoptera
> 
> there is virtually no _reasonable_ argument why this dude is a demon for feeding mantids to an emp and the rest of us feeding Discoids and lobsters to pets are on the side of the angels...


I second that.


----------



## xgrafcorex (Sep 8, 2005)

*?*

i thought the mantis was a protected species in the usa? shouldnt have it in captivity anyway.  but other than that yea, 2 scorps in a cage with it is nothing but a recipe for disaster.  i read all this about them staying near the ceiling...the only time i have ever seen them in the wild was in hawaii and they were usually on or near the ground.  one started flying at me when i was walking into my house at night. but other than that they just sat there while i watched them


----------



## BigBadConrad (Sep 8, 2005)

I agree there is no "moral" argument for feeding roaches versus mantises, but there are big differences between the two in terms of ther roles in the food chain and ramifications for the environment and for us humans. Mantises are protected because they are "beneficial" insects that eat "pests." Egg cases can be purchased at garden shops and farm suppliers as an alternative to pesticides. Roaches are disease-carrying "pest" insects. My feeling is that, while "beneficial" and "pest" are labels people have put on them, roaches and mantises have very different roles in the world. Plus, mantises mate only once, if they're lucky, and aren't nearly as prolific as roaches. In this sense, killing a mantis is a more significant act than killing a roach. Just my opinion.

More to the point, this kid positioned this first as a mantis rescue, then as an "experiment", then finally copped to the fact that what's really going on is he's feeding the mantis to the scorpion for his amusement (like we didn't all know that right off) and he doesn't care what anyone thinks. Then why start the thread?

It's been my observation that kids are always posting in this forum and trying to get people all worked up. Like Elvis Costello said: "Well I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused..."


----------



## Empi (Sep 8, 2005)

fscorpion said:
			
		

> Well, it looks like this "predator" guy is just another sick person who likes to torture animals with the excuse he is making an experiment. Oh, he has no place to put it but in the cage with scorpions. That would be a really nice idea to put him in a cage with aligators to see how much he will be smart and how long he will survive. Some people should be forbidden to keep animals, even invertebrated because even they are more decent creatures that this person...
> Hope the mantis gets away and bites ur nose off...
> Fscorpio


Ok, this is just stupid! I got half the <edit> way through this thread and just cant stand it anymore. It is just a <edit> mantid! Why is it ant differant than a cricket or a roach. Its not! If the scorp eats it oh <edit> well. Get over it already! I love mantids but I'll tell you what. If they were in my yard I would feed the <edit> to my scorp any time I could. Thats just less money I have to spend on crickets. I can see where you would have a good argument if it were a vertabrate. Get bent! ;P  :evil:


----------



## Empi (Sep 8, 2005)

xgrafcorex said:
			
		

> i thought the mantis was a protected species in the usa? shouldnt have it in captivity anyway.  but other than that yea, 2 scorps in a cage with it is nothing but a recipe for disaster.  i read all this about them staying near the ceiling...the only time i have ever seen them in the wild was in hawaii and they were usually on or near the ground.  one started flying at me when i was walking into my house at night. but other than that they just sat there while i watched them


The mantid is not a protected in the US. I that were true you would not be able to keep them or even handle them for that matter.


----------



## parabuthus (Sep 8, 2005)

yuanti said:
			
		

> I've had my emperor scorpion for a couple months now.  He is in a 10 gal tank with sliding screen top and a UV blacklight/40watt light combo that is almost never on.
> 
> I live in Charleston, SC and we have alot of tree frogs all over our house at night. So the first thing he really ate at home was a tree frog. So far he has eaten quite a few of those, a couple small toads, a large cricket i found along with a few large grasshoppers and some spiders I've managed to catch.
> 
> ...


WOW, you really need to WET that tank up. Humidity should be ateast 80%, preferrably more. Get the 'coconut fibre expanding brick' from your local pet store. Put it in water for 20 - 30 mins and it expands. It retains water really well, is comfortable for the scorp, and allows burrowing.


----------



## fscorpion (Sep 8, 2005)

empi said:
			
		

> Ok, this is just stupid! I got half the <edit> way through this thread and just cant stand it anymore. It is just a <edit> mantid! Why is it ant differant than a cricket or a roach. Its not! If the scorp eats it oh <edit> well. Get over it already! I love mantids but I'll tell you what. If they were in my yard I would feed the <edit> to my scorp any time I could. Thats just less money I have to spend on crickets. I can see where you would have a good argument if it were a vertabrate. Get bent! ;P  :evil:



Listen Molder, you can say there is not much difference between feeding a scorpion with a mantis or a worm, they are all insects, but if you take a mantis, then you say you want to keep it somewhere and then you put it together with 2 emperors to see what happens and u probably enjoy seeing them fight, because the mantis is a predator and it won't give up without a fight, and at the end you enjoy seeing the mantis u said u wanted to keep gots eaten, then I think something is wrong with that person. Yes, it is probably a sadistic kid who just doesn't care, but people like you who support that are just more amusing...
So, if it is just a <edit> mantis, where does it end, can I give to the scorpions mice, birds...is that normal? Would I be normal to give them puppies to see how much time will they live with an androctonus? The problem is that anyone can take an animal and kill it and if someone enjoys in that, well, I think that person IS NOT NORMAL...
Go seek the truth Molder...
FS


----------



## fscorpion (Sep 8, 2005)

empi said:
			
		

> The mantid is not a protected in the US. I that were true you would not be able to keep them or even handle them for that matter.


Do you treat with that regard all the protected species in the usa? U think that if a species is protected that makes her more valauable than some other? remmeber that a list of protected species is composed by humans...


----------



## fscorpion (Sep 8, 2005)

Predator said:
			
		

> Yea im really sick for putting them together.  The worst thing that could happen is the scorp eating the mantis.  Same thing as if the scorpion ate a cricket.  Who made you god and decided what foods are acceptable for them to eat.


Listen sadistic pal, if you enjoy watching animals fight and being eaten, then ur sick...I certainly don't think I am God and that is why I don't keep scorpions neither I send animals to be eaten by other animals, as you are doing that, maybe you think u are God, or the Devil...
Get a doctor pal...
FS


----------



## AfterTheAsylum (Sep 8, 2005)

You know, <edit>.  I can't think of anything else to say.    Honestly, you are so mad at all the merciful and helpful people on this forum for giving you the truth, that you are going to try to punish them by punishing innocence?  You're a sad and lonely kid, <edit>.


----------



## Wade (Sep 8, 2005)

Typing fast before the thread gets locked...

I think what's upsetting people here is the idea of bring home an animal with the idea of keeping it as a pet, and then sticking it in with annother animal that is likley to prey on it to see if it survives, then using the reasoning of "not having annother cage" and THEN calling it an experiment as if something of value could be learned from this. This sort of logic is what people find offensive.

If he had simply said "I decided to feed my scorpion a mantid" I doubt there'd be this much controversy. 

I keep snakes and feed them rodents. That said, I would find it disturbing if someone got a pet squirel and decided to keep it with their burmese python to see if it would survive. Am I offended because I think a squirel's life is more valuable than a rats? No, I'm offended because it's a crappy way to treat an animal you call a pet.

Wade


----------



## Arachnoboards (Sep 8, 2005)

I should not have had to do all of the editing that I just did.   

I suggest that all of you go back and read the rules of this site before you post again. If I have to edit anyone else in this thread, not only will it get locked, but those that are edited will get an automatic suspension for not following the rules. Especially after I just warned you all to read them again ..... 

If you can't play nice, then don't play at all!

ALL of you that are involved, consider that you have now officially been warned! You know who you are.   


Debby


----------



## FortCooper1982 (Sep 8, 2005)

Predator said:
			
		

> A friend of mine caught a rather large praying mantis at work a few days ago.  He brought it over to my house since he had no where to house it.  Well I didnt really have anywhere to put it either besides in my tank with 2 adult emps.  So far its been 3 days and the praying mantis is still alive.  The mantis sticks to the high ground and jumps down to grab a cricket here and there.  So far it seems like this may work out.  Has anyone else tried this?  I kind of like the fact they may be able to co-exist together.  It adds more life to the tank.  I hope the mantis is smart enough to stay away from them which it seems to be.  I have watched him and he wont jump down for a cricket if he sees one of the emps out and about.


You say you want to see how long the mantid goes before it is eaten NOT THAT MUCH LONGER!!!! What if ya miss the kill whats the point! You put it in there to see the scorp eat it, i don't think you expected the lil guy to survive. I keep a mantid on his own, coz it is my pet, something you wouldn't understand.

You keep emps so you must like scorpions how would you feel if someone on here was feeding them to there large snakes or lizards, if you don't care, you dont care enough for the pets you keep and should not be aloud!!


----------



## Mister Internet (Sep 8, 2005)

Predator,

Just shrug it off and leave the thread alone.  This wouldn't have had any complaints if one of the senior scorp people had done it.  You're relatively new, and you got ganged-up on because you were an "easy" target.  It's amazing to me how people will get bent out of shape about something this inane.

Anyway, just go on to other threads and leave this one alone... there are certain people who, once they get on a cause like this, will hang on for dear life like a rabid Jack Russell.  Some people have sad, boring lives, and this bit of excitement helps them cope.  I can hardly begrudge them that, but there's no point discussing it with them.


----------



## Bayushi (Sep 8, 2005)

my two cents.

 I might not agree with what you did, but after the whole "tarantula in with 3 Emps" thread... I've come to this conclusion.  People will do what they want and if i don't sgree, that's my option. i don't have the right to lecture you on what you feed to your pets.. (as long as it isn't children  then i'll go off on ya).

 It's a part of life  peoppe do what they want. Hell i toss cellar spiders into my scorp tanks when i am low of cash and know i won't be getting feeders in the near future.

 Sadly people it's just a bug and it isn't even a native species of bug in the US.  Cut the guy some slack, cus noone is perfect.


----------



## Wade (Sep 8, 2005)

Here's a link explaining the myth about mantids being protected:

http://www.snopes.com/critters/wild/mantis2.htm

As others have mentioned, chances are the mantid in question was an introduced species which the USDA now consider pests anyway. There are, however, many natives, but most are smaller species.

From a conservation standpoint, killing one mantid doesn't mean much. Also, this time of year they're nearing the end of they're lifespan anyway and even released it would be dead in amonth or so anyway. It may have even already bred and laid some eggs. 

Bottom line is, it's still a crappy way to treat a PET, but hardly worthy of a tar and feathering considering the pet in question is a short-lived insect. As I said before, I doubt this hubub would have occured if he had just said he fed the scorpion a mantid.

Wade


----------



## yuanti (Sep 8, 2005)

parabuthus said:
			
		

> WOW, you really need to WET that tank up. Humidity should be ateast 80%, preferrably more. Get the 'coconut fibre expanding brick' from your local pet store. Put it in water for 20 - 30 mins and it expands. It retains water really well, is comfortable for the scorp, and allows burrowing.



Being here in Charleston, SC humidity is pretty high. I keep his water filled and have a temp and humidity gauge in the tank. That pict was taken with the gauge reading out 85+ % humidity every day.  

Is it best to keep the substrate actually wet?   I'll check out that coconut fibre stuff too. Lately the temps have been dropping and the humidity is down around 75% in the tank now.


----------



## parabuthus (Sep 8, 2005)

It just looked way too dry from that pic -maybe the flash? You don't want it soaking wet, but there should be alot of moisture. These things come from the jungle afterall. 75% isn't a crime, but keeping it 80+ is the best idea. Goodluck.


----------



## yuanti (Sep 8, 2005)

*ok*

Thanks I'll keep up on it.  I was even thinking of a humidifier or something to put in there as well.


----------



## parabuthus (Sep 8, 2005)

Honestly, get that expanding cocnut fibre brick thingy-ma-jig. It will really keep the humidity up. You could also try some rolled up/soaked tissue paper in the water dish, renewing it every few days or so. Just watch your scorp doesn't get covered in tissue paper!!! And ofcourse mist a couple of times per day.


----------



## Empi (Sep 8, 2005)

fscorpion said:
			
		

> Listen sadistic pal, if you enjoy watching animals fight and being eaten, then ur sick...I certainly don't think I am God and that is why I don't keep scorpions neither I send animals to be eaten by other animals, as you are doing that, maybe you think u are God, or the Devil...
> Get a doctor pal...
> FS


 Sorry but I don't think anyone that owns scorpions or T's for that matter can even try and make me believe that they do not "ENJOY" watching them eat a cricket. Or whatever your choice of food happens to be. That is a fact! A lot of people feed them things that they catch in the yard. I know I do all the time. I catch spiders, beetles, grasshoppers and moths all the time and feed them. I have seen on several posts people feeding scorpions to pedes. Not because they are sadistic, but because there are a ton of them in they're area. Now with that said. I think the reason so many people see this as a big deal is either because they don't have mantids in they're area and wish they did or they keep them as pets. I keep black widows as pets. Most people kill them. I keep roaches as pets. Most people use them as feeders as do I. Even though I like them. Now I don't have mantids where I live and wish I did cuz I like them alot. But I have been to places where they are everywhere. If I lived in a place like that I would feed them. So I don't see what the big deal is. I think that some people just like to complain and will do it whenever they can. Maybe "THOSE PEOPLE" should find a new hobby!


----------



## Empi (Sep 8, 2005)

Arachnoboards said:
			
		

> I should not have had to do all of the editing that I just did.
> 
> I suggest that all of you go back and read the rules of this site before you post again. If I have to edit anyone else in this thread, not only will it get locked, but those that are edited will get an automatic suspension for not following the rules. Especially after I just warned you all to read them again .....
> 
> ...



Sorry Debby.


----------



## xgrafcorex (Sep 8, 2005)

*blah*

well honestly i dont think id ever feed a mantis to anything i owned.  as everyone has been saying, they are more complex organisms and quite simply i belive they fascinate humans more than roaches and crickets.  but at the same time i believe part of the lure of scorpions and tarantulas or other spiders is that they are NOT herbivores.  they pounce, attack, kill, then eat their prey.  if you deny being fascinated by this, then i think you are kidding yourself.  its not the only reason i bought my ts but feeding is one of the more interesting aspects of their keeping.  most of the time they are the "pet rocks" people describe them as.  when i watch one move incredibly quick and grab something, (so far have only fed crickets) i am amazed every time.


----------



## Farom (Sep 8, 2005)

empi said:
			
		

> Now I don't have mantids where I live and wish I did cuz I like them alot.





			
				empi said:
			
		

> If I lived in a place like that I would feed them.


----------



## galeogirl (Sep 8, 2005)

I don't agree with keeping a mantis in with scorps; it's a waste of good mantis.  They are really engaging free-roaming pets, don't need a cage since it was caught in the wild at his locale.


----------



## pandinus (Sep 9, 2005)

OMG people! Cry me a freaking river! A mantis that was gonna die in a month or so MIGHT die a few weeks earlier?! Boo-frikedy-Hoo! I think some of you need to put down the pitchforks and just be quiet. And will someone PLEASE lock this thread? 4 pages is 3.7 pages too many!


----------



## Empi (Sep 9, 2005)

pandinus said:
			
		

> OMG people! Cry me a freaking river! A mantis that was gonna die in a month or so MIGHT die a few weeks earlier?! Boo-frikedy-Hoo! I think some of you need to put down the pitchforks and just be quiet. And will someone PLEASE lock this thread? 4 pages is 3.7 pages too many!


Thank you! :clap:  :clap:  :clap:


----------



## ScorpDude (Sep 9, 2005)

pandinus said:
			
		

> OMG people! Cry me a freaking river! A mantis that was gonna die in a month or so MIGHT die a few weeks earlier?! Boo-frikedy-Hoo! I think some of you need to put down the pitchforks and just be quiet. And will someone PLEASE lock this thread? 4 pages is 3.7 pages too many!


<edit - NO PERSONAL ATTACKS!! - MrI>

The mantid has a purpose to fill  its got to breed, thats the way of life you know? 

if somebody said you can die today or you can have a few weeks to have sex and then die, which would you choose?

stop trying to play god.


----------



## Mister Internet (Sep 9, 2005)

One more, and I lock it.


----------



## Predator (Sep 9, 2005)

FortCooper1982 said:
			
		

> You say you want to see how long the mantid goes before it is eaten NOT THAT MUCH LONGER!!!! What if ya miss the kill whats the point! You put it in there to see the scorp eat it, i don't think you expected the lil guy to survive. I keep a mantid on his own, coz it is my pet, something you wouldn't understand.
> 
> You keep emps so you must like scorpions how would you feel if someone on here was feeding them to there large snakes or lizards, if you don't care, you dont care enough for the pets you keep and should not be aloud!!


If I wanted to see it bad enough I would have tossed him down to the burrow.  I have before but I was really hoping they could live together.  I didnt think this was going to get so many people upset.  I figured in the scorpion forum things wouldnt be so bad.  Theres already another thread with a guy who feeds C. Vittatus to his pedes.  It doesnt bother me as long as he is not reaching in my tanks and taking my scorps so he can feed them to his pedes.  I care a lot about my scorps.  I probably have some of the nicest setups for scorps you can have.




			
				Mister Internet said:
			
		

> Predator,
> 
> Just shrug it off and leave the thread alone.  This wouldn't have had any complaints if one of the senior scorp people had done it.  You're relatively new, and you got ganged-up on because you were an "easy" target.  It's amazing to me how people will get bent out of shape about something this inane.
> 
> Anyway, just go on to other threads and leave this one alone... there are certain people who, once they get on a cause like this, will hang on for dear life like a rabid Jack Russell.  Some people have sad, boring lives, and this bit of excitement helps them cope.  I can hardly begrudge them that, but there's no point discussing it with them.



Cant argue with you there.  This will most likely be my last post.  Your probably going to end up locking it since we could all argue this for 10 years and never get anywhere.


----------



## 8 legged freak (Sep 9, 2005)

i agree with you about the pede thing, i don't know why people are biting your head off when you were mearly asking if matids and scorps can live together, it's how people learn, by asking q's. sorry to everyone out there but he does have a point about the guy feeding scorps to his pedes.


----------



## fscorpion (Sep 9, 2005)

empi said:
			
		

> Sorry but I don't think anyone that owns scorpions or T's for that matter can even try and make me believe that they do not "ENJOY" watching them eat a cricket. Or whatever your choice of food happens to be. That is a fact! A lot of people feed them things that they catch in the yard. I know I do all the time. I catch spiders, beetles, grasshoppers and moths all the time and feed them. I have seen on several posts people feeding scorpions to pedes. Not because they are sadistic, but because there are a ton of them in they're area. Now with that said. I think the reason so many people see this as a big deal is either because they don't have mantids in they're area and wish they did or they keep them as pets. I keep black widows as pets. Most people kill them. I keep roaches as pets. Most people use them as feeders as do I. Even though I like them. Now I don't have mantids where I live and wish I did cuz I like them alot. But I have been to places where they are everywhere. If I lived in a place like that I would feed them. So I don't see what the big deal is. I think that some people just like to complain and will do it whenever they can. Maybe "THOSE PEOPLE" should find a new hobby!


Molder, I agree with you in a way...but as someone previously said, it's not the animal, but it's in the idea that someone said that he wanted to keep this mantis as a pet and then put it in a cage with scorpions. That looks sadistic to me and I don't like sadistic people. Also, if you enjoy watching an animal killing another animal that's also sadistic to my opinion. I admire those creatures because they are so ancient, but I like all the other arachnids and insects and respect them. Also, I couldn’t keep a snake and feed it with mice or baby mice, that's just so cruel, but that's my opinion. I have nothing against people who do that to keep their pet alive, but someone who enjoys that, my God, that is not normal. I like pythons, marvelous creatures, but I could never keep them because of that...I have nothing against people who love them...do you understand my point?
Also, I don't see why the administrator should lock this trade. There has been no flaming, just people with different opinions. If you tell someone he is a sadistic person, I don’t think that would be cursing...
Fscorpio


----------



## fscorpion (Sep 9, 2005)

pandinus said:
			
		

> OMG people! Cry me a freaking river! A mantis that was gonna die in a month or so MIGHT die a few weeks earlier?! Boo-frikedy-Hoo! I think some of you need to put down the pitchforks and just be quiet. And will someone PLEASE lock this thread? 4 pages is 3.7 pages too many!


Your argument doesn't stand, you could also say "why don't we kill a 50 year old man, he will die in a couple of decades anyway", I don't think this thread is useless, on the contrary, made me see how certain people think....
This arachnoboeard is also ment to share opinions...
Fscorpio


----------



## fscorpion (Sep 9, 2005)

BigBadConrad said:
			
		

> I agree there is no "moral" argument for feeding roaches versus mantises, but there are big differences between the two in terms of ther roles in the food chain and ramifications for the environment and for us humans. Mantises are protected because they are "beneficial" insects that eat "pests." Egg cases can be purchased at garden shops and farm suppliers as an alternative to pesticides. Roaches are disease-carrying "pest" insects. My feeling is that, while "beneficial" and "pest" are labels people have put on them, roaches and mantises have very different roles in the world. Plus, mantises mate only once, if they're lucky, and aren't nearly as prolific as roaches. In this sense, killing a mantis is a more significant act than killing a roach. Just my opinion.
> 
> More to the point, this kid positioned this first as a mantis rescue, then as an "experiment", then finally copped to the fact that what's really going on is he's feeding the mantis to the scorpion for his amusement (like we didn't all know that right off) and he doesn't care what anyone thinks. Then why start the thread?
> 
> It's been my observation that kids are always posting in this forum and trying to get people all worked up. Like Elvis Costello said: "Well I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused..."



Couldn't agree more!!!!


----------



## pandinus (Sep 9, 2005)

fscorpion said:
			
		

> Your argument doesn't stand, you could also say "why don't we kill a 50 year old man, he will die in a couple of decades anyway", I don't think this thread is useless, on the contrary, made me see how certain people think....
> This arachnoboeard is also ment to share opinions...
> Fscorpio


i'm not making an arguement. I'm saying i dont care, and that this is a waste of time. BTW, since when is a mantis equal with a 50 year old man.

Will someone please start cursing again so that they lock this thread?


----------



## TheMachete (Sep 9, 2005)

Just a quick question for everyone. Is it wrong that we even keep these animals in enclosures, instead of leaving them in nature? Just a question.


----------



## fscorpion (Sep 9, 2005)

pandinus said:
			
		

> i'm not making an arguement. I'm saying i dont care, and that this is a waste of time. BTW, since when is a mantis equal with a 50 year old man.


It's not equal, because we humans think our lives are more preciouse than the one of a mantis, but who said they are not? Why someone's life worth more than anothers? Who makes that scale? Who allows us to kill some other creature? Life should be respected, no matter if it's a mantis, a dolphin or a human...
But u did want to make an argument saying the mantis will die anyway and therefor we could kill it before she dies by natural couses...


----------



## pandinus (Sep 10, 2005)

fscorpion said:
			
		

> It's not equal, because we humans think our lives are more preciouse than the one of a mantis, but who said they are not? Why someone's life worth more than anothers? Who makes that scale? Who allows us to kill some other creature? Life should be respected, no matter if it's a mantis, a dolphin or a human...
> But u did want to make an argument saying the mantis will die anyway and therefor we could kill it before she dies by natural couses...


i believe i know what point i was trying to make thank you. My point was that this is not important and has been dragged out too long. Just because someone doesnt share your opinion does not make them a sadist, or entitle them to flames. Youre preaching about him treating the mantis poorly, well how are you treating him? Just as poorly. But i thought that every life no matter how big or small deserves respect. hmmmmm...


----------



## Empi (Sep 10, 2005)

fscorpion said:
			
		

> Molder, I agree with you in a way...but as someone previously said, it's not the animal, but it's in the idea that someone said that he wanted to keep this mantis as a pet and then put it in a cage with scorpions. That looks sadistic to me and I don't like sadistic people. Also, if you enjoy watching an animal killing another animal that's also sadistic to my opinion. I admire those creatures because they are so ancient, but I like all the other arachnids and insects and respect them. Also, I couldn’t keep a snake and feed it with mice or baby mice, that's just so cruel, but that's my opinion. I have nothing against people who do that to keep their pet alive, but someone who enjoys that, my God, that is not normal. I like pythons, marvelous creatures, but I could never keep them because of that...I have nothing against people who love them...do you understand my point?
> Also, I don't see why the administrator should lock this trade. There has been no flaming, just people with different opinions. If you tell someone he is a sadistic person, I don’t think that would be cursing...
> Fscorpio



I understand what you are saying. Preds original question had nothing to do with feeding it to the scorp. He had a valid question. But no one seems to care about his original question at this point. If he wanted to keep it as a pet than he should not have put it in with a scorp. I think that if he would have posted "feeding mantis to scorp", That would have been better. So I agree with you kinda too. But I don't think if you like to watch your pet eat it makes you sadistic. I love watching my scorps and t's catch and eat they're prey. You could not keep a snake cuz you would have to feed it mice and rats, but that is what a snake does naturaly and it does not make someone sadistic because they like to watch they're animals natural behavier. But I will say before someone says it for me. A mantis is not a natural prey item for an emp. But I do not think there is anything wrong with feeding a mantis to an emp. That does not even strike me as an odd thing to do. I can see if it were a vertabrate why some people would have a problem with it. But a mantis is not going to feel the pain and if it is as smart as people are claiming than it will not even get eatin. In the end it is just a bug and I don't think any bug is better than the other.


----------



## Empi (Sep 10, 2005)

TheMachete said:
			
		

> Just a quick question for everyone. Is it wrong that we even keep these animals in enclosures, instead of leaving them in nature? Just a question.


 Yeah no kidding right! :clap:


----------



## Empi (Sep 10, 2005)

ScorpDude said:
			
		

> <edit - NO PERSONAL ATTACKS!! - MrI>
> 
> The mantid has a purpose to fill  its got to breed, thats the way of life you know?
> 
> ...


 Do you actually believe that a mantid enjoys having sex and will give a <selfedit> whether it has sex before it dies. Thats all instinct for a mantid and is not even close to the same thing as a person. A lot of animals force there mates into mating. Do you force your mate into mating? I hope not!


----------



## fscorpion (Sep 10, 2005)

empi said:
			
		

> Do you actually believe that a mantid enjoys having sex and will give a <selfedit> whether it has sex before it dies. Thats all instinct for a mantid and is not even close to the same thing as a person. A lot of animals force there mates into mating. Do you force your mate into mating? I hope not!



I don’t think a mantis male could force a female into mating, hehe, and all animals mate only when they are ready, some animals even mate for fun (like dolphins). So, the mantis really has a purpose, and that is to reproduce, that is a very important thing, the basic thing for animals, many species die after they have fulfilled their purpose. Not letting a mantis reproduce means not letting her fulfill the purpose of her life!


----------



## Empi (Sep 10, 2005)

fscorpion said:
			
		

> I don’t think a mantis male could force a female into mating, hehe, and all animals mate only when they are ready, some animals even mate for fun (like dolphins). So, the mantis really has a purpose, and that is to reproduce, that is a very important thing, the basic thing for animals, many species die after they have fulfilled their purpose. Not letting a mantis reproduce means not letting her fulfill the purpose of her life!


I know that a male mantid does not force the female to mate.  Some animals like the taz. devil for one, the male forces the female to mate against her will. But my point is animals don't mate for fun. With the exeption of a few species. And I dont agree that a mantids purpose is to mate. I can think of a couple other purposes that they serve like keeping other insect populations under control and to be food for things higher up on the food chain. Like scorpions. They mate to continue they're species and because instinct drives them to. Not because that is they're purpose.


----------



## moricollins (Sep 18, 2005)

Mister Internet said:
			
		

> there are certain people who, once they get on a cause like this, will hang on for dear life like a rabid Jack Russell.  Some people have sad, boring lives, and this bit of excitement helps them cope.  I can hardly begrudge them that, but there's no point discussing it with them.



Tom, that's not a nice way to talk about me.  ;P   

and about the original topic, I think Wade hit the nail on the head, if you hadn't been wishy-washy about what you were doing (is it a pet, is it because their isn't another tank/container, is it an experiment?) you wouldn't have had nearly the response, I think.


----------



## RVS (Sep 19, 2005)

Some people don't desereve the right to care for animals.
It would have been one thing for you to feed the mantis to the scorpion, another for you to "experiment" with housing the two together. But you jumping from one reason to the other shows you didn't put much thought into what you were doing. If you lack simple cognitive ability, no living thing should be left in your care.


----------



## Stanky105 (Sep 19, 2005)

The only reason I can think of not to feed a mantis to a scorpion is if the mantis would happen to be rare in your area, is a threatened species etc.

If they are healthy and common, there is NO difference between feeding a mantis or a cricket to the scorpion. Nothing wrong with it at all.


----------



## Galapoheros (Sep 19, 2005)

RVS said:
			
		

> Some people don't desereve the right to care for animals.
> It would have been one thing for you to feed the mantis to the scorpion, another for you to "experiment" with housing the two together. But you jumping from one reason to the other shows you didn't put much thought into what you were doing. If you lack simple cognitive ability, no living thing should be left in your care.


One reason, and maybe THE reason he didn't put much thought into it is probably because (but maybe not) he's not really interested in mantids that much like some other people are.  Some like them, so don't really care about them.  To this person, it might not warrant much thought.  Mantids are plentiful here in Texas.  I like them but there are so many.  I saw one today on my back porch as a matter of fact.  Yes, people are plentiful too.  But, most people don't see the life of one mantid equal to the life of a human.  I suppose that is arguable.  Anything is arguable.  How do we know what goes on in a mantid's nervous system!  What's upsetting to people about this thread is the same thing that might upset people if someone put a penguin with a Diamondback rattlesnake.  It just doesn't make sense, but then, why not if it is food and it isn't endangered?  I assume that this guy eventually wanted to feed the mantis to the scorps.  Mice, crickets, roaches, fish, frogs, mealworms, waxworms, earthworms, cows, chickens, dogs, squid, lettuce....  Each person has their own passion and interest.  But all is food for another.  The mantis just isn't that important to this guy.  His own truth.  One mantis.  This thread turned into an issue of "principle" and personal interest.  I've found everything that has been said intriguing and thought provoking.  Makes you think.  My respect to everyone that has commented on the thread.  Keep on buggin!  On a lighter note, I watched the 10 most ....something, I can't remember the title of the show.  I was on a pede hunting trip and was in a motel.  I don't have cable at my house but watch all the nature shows when I can.  I don't watch much else.  The Mantis was one of the top ten.  The host said that the mantis can catch and eat birds, mice and soft-shelled turtles......  Did anybody else see that!?!?!?!  Man!...softshelled turtles!  Did I hear that right?!  I'm picturing a foot long praying mantis.  Soft-shelled turtle?  Someone, please tell me they saw the same show.  Oh, and those Gieko or Geico(sp?) commercials keep calling the Gecko an amphibian!  Ha!


----------



## RVS (Sep 19, 2005)

That wasn't my point. Personally I love mantises (infact exotic mantises make up most of my collection), but if someone wants to feed them to their scorpion that's fine with me. They're very common in my area as well, furthermore non-indigenous. The problem is, this person first presented the mantis as a "pet", then later argued it as a food item. I would feel the same way would it have been a cricket, a mouse, or a puppy.
I apologize if I came down a little hard, but I certainly still stand by what I posted earlier.


----------



## parabuthus (Sep 19, 2005)

Oh God, it's back! (the thread)


----------



## Empi (Sep 19, 2005)

parabuthus said:
			
		

> Oh God, it's back! (the thread)


 I was just about to say the same thing. This is getting old. Get over it already!


----------



## Mister Internet (Sep 19, 2005)

Yeah, this thead's attracting nothing but flies and posters who haven't bothered to read the whole thing. I'd say we're done here.


----------

