# Roaches...



## Valael (Mar 16, 2003)

Which one?



I've been trying to find a decent roach for a decent price for a while now, and it seems as htough Kelly Swift has the best selection for the price.



So which should I go with? Lobster Roach (Nauphoeta cinerea) or Surinam Roaches (Pycnoscelus surinamensis)?



I realize Lobster Roaches are the most popular, but being different is kind of nice, too.


The big advantage with the Suriname roaches is that (According to Swift's site), they're all female.  As a breeding amature, htis sounds as though it's pretty easy to deal with.  On the negative side, it says they like to hide under the dirt, too.



I'm wanting something as a tarantula feeder, and possibly a lizard feeder.  (I've had bearded dragons in the past, but got rid of them due to the 35 - 39 minute drive to get Crickets.)


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## Frank (Mar 16, 2003)

For the things I know about roaches, you could go with madagascar hissing, they are good feeder, don't hide under the dirt, don't fly, hmm and that's it lol  oh yeah they are cheap too 





Frank


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## Valael (Mar 16, 2003)

Well, from everything I've heard, a lot of tarantulas won't bother with them because of their hard shells.




That and the fact that they're usually close to a dollar a piece..





I can get the above roaches for 3 dozen for $25 on Swiftinverts.com


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## Frank (Mar 16, 2003)

I'm not sure if that's true, but I've heard that for hissers, they can be given to Ts if hissers are 1 1/2 inch and less...






Frank


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## atavuss (Mar 16, 2003)

another thing to consider is that does it matter to you if the roach can climb glass or plastic containers?  I prefer death head roaches so I don't have to worry about them climbing out and escaping their bin.
Ed


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## Wade (Mar 16, 2003)

There seems to be a certain amount of trade off with these roaches. If they can't climb glass, then they hide under the substrate. Glass climbing might be a good thing when feeding an aboreal critter.

Most of my T's will accept hissers, but a few reject them. The Blaberus sp. (death heads) are usually more readily accepted. 

One trick that works when feeding non-glass climbing roaches to herps is to use a smooth-sided ceramic or plastic dish and put the roaches in that. The lizards (or in my case frogs) quickly learn to find them there.

Wade


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## Code Monkey (Mar 16, 2003)

I've got to sing the praises of the orange spotted roach (Blaptica dubia). No glass or plastic climbing abilities, no smell, big enough as adults for anything short of a blondi, and the perfect size at birth for most slings. They live up to 2 years as adults and breed at a pretty good clip. I started with 18 nymphs in June, had breeding adults by late October, and am now able to feed my smaller slings off the wee ones. As soon as I get a new crop of adults I'll start feeding  from the larger nymphs.

That's the only down side to a roach colony, they do take a while to get established, but once they do, whoa. I started with 18 nymphs, have fed two of the adults to my Ts as test subjects, and now have a couple of hundred already. It will be an unbelievable number by this summer.


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## Botar (Mar 16, 2003)

I've had the same results as CM with my Giant Cave Roaches... the scientific name escapes me at the moment.  I started with about 15 nymphs in October and I've just recently seen my first babies.  

I also had a colony of Lobsters, but I quickly had hundreds and as glass climbers, they made me pretty nervous.  You put one in a kritter keeper and if the T doesn't get it, you've got to worry about them getting out through the ventilation slots.  I ended up freezing mine.

Botar


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## Wade (Mar 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Botar _
> *I've had the same results as CM with my Giant Cave Roaches... the scientific name escapes me at the moment.
> 
> Botar *


Blaberus gigantea, I think. Don't have my references with me at the moment.


Wade


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## Botar (Mar 16, 2003)

B. gigantea or gigantica?  

Botar


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## Code Monkey (Mar 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Botar _
> *I also had a colony of Lobsters, but I quickly had hundreds and as glass climbers, they made me pretty nervous.  You put one in a kritter keeper and if the T doesn't get it, you've got to worry about them getting out through the ventilation slots.  I ended up freezing mine.*


Yeah, I do not have the balls (literally, my wife would cut them off if they got out) to keep glass climbers. I can't even manage to keep crickets completely contained so all I need is a roach that can sprint up the side of kritter keeper, or their container if the vaseline/fluon barrier got crudded up enough for them to get some traction. I've been very pleased with the lack of escapees with these guys. The only scary moment I had was yesterday when I expanded their "roach motel" of slatted cork board. I was knocking them off of the old slats so I could incorporate them into the new and improved roach motel when I smacked a piece wrong and launched a number of nymphs onto my living room carpet - yikes! Even though they don't move very fast, I did  
I'm just glad my wife wasn't around to witness that.


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## Valael (Mar 17, 2003)

Maybe I should hold out.  The petstore near by here is raising some Archimandrita tesselata (Giant Peruvian Roaches).  He's only got about 30 babies right now (The adults died off after giving birth for some reason) but 30 is enough to get them going once they get larger..



I'd really like to order some from Roachman, though -- but his prices are a bit high for me heh.


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## Code Monkey (Mar 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Valael _
> *Maybe I should hold out.  The petstore near by here is raising some Archimandrita tesselata (Giant Peruvian Roaches).  He's only got about 30 babies right now (The adults died off after giving birth for some reason) but 30 is enough to get them going once they get*


That species is *s l o w* to get any sort of colony going. I considered them and Roachman steered me clear as they're not really a good feeder roach unless you've got 2+ years to wait.

One thing to do is keep an eye on the classifieds here and other forums. Although professional dealers charge some premium prices for roaches, hobbyists whose colonies are ready to burst at the seams often sell off starter colonies at good prices.


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## atavuss (Mar 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Code Monkey _
> *I've got to sing the praises of the orange spotted roach (Blaptica dubia). No glass or plastic climbing abilities, no smell, big enough as adults for anything short of a blondi, and the perfect size at birth for most slings. They live up to 2 years as adults and breed at a pretty good clip. I started with 18 nymphs in June, had breeding adults by late October, and am now able to feed my smaller slings off the wee ones. As soon as I get a new crop of adults I'll start feeding  from the larger nymphs.
> 
> That's the only down side to a roach colony, they do take a while to get established, but once they do, whoa. I started with 18 nymphs, have fed two of the adults to my Ts as test subjects, and now have a couple of hundred already. It will be an unbelievable number by this summer. *


CM, are you using pegboard in rubbermaid containers?  is that vermiculate  (sp?) for substrate?  I use paper towel and toilet paper tubes with no substrate for my roaches.  I use the polymer stuff to water them and fish and dog food along with any leftover veggies to feed them.  I had a bit of a roast beef sandwhich left over from lunch the other day so out of curiousity I put it in with the death head roaches, within a minute I could not even see any of the sandwhich, it was completly covered with roaches.  
Ed


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## Code Monkey (Mar 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by atavuss _
> *CM, are you using pegboard in rubbermaid containers?  is that vermiculate  (sp?) for substrate?
> 
> Ed *


It's cork board. Half of it is some 12x12 "tiles" I got at the craft shop and cut in half, and the other half was an even better bargain: my dad is a beekeeper and the "peg board" stuff is what's left over after they punch out the plugs for queen cages. My dad, being a regular Sanford, gets this stuff from the factory for free as they're just going to throw it out, and when I saw it, I immediately begged a sheet off of him. I then just used some pieces of 1/2 x 1 crown molding as spacers and hotglued the whole contraption together. It provides pretty much as close to optimal surface area for the roaches as I can imagine.

Substrate is about 1" of vermiculite as the newly born roaches like to burrow before moving into the roach motel. Feed is mostly dogfood with, like you, some leftover veggies thrown in for variety.

This is a better picture of the roach motel:


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## Frank (Mar 18, 2003)

What's the kind of dog food we see that looks like big balls? We're giving some big balls dog food like that to our dog.. I would like to see if that's the same as ours.. (maybe to use with my future hissers) and do they like it or do they eat it to have something to eat?



Thanks, Frank


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## Code Monkey (Mar 18, 2003)

The big pieces are Science Diet Tartar control - they love it, and I guess their mandibles stay clean 

My wife gets all kinds of different dog foods for free or nearly free as a vet student so I've had a bit of fun seeing what the roaches seem to prefer. They tend to devour the tartar control and vegetable kibbles first. Heavily colored dog foods tend to go last. We just got some new dog food being made by Marshalls and that also seems to be a hit.

I don't think you have to stress this issue too much. They are roaches. The thing that I find most amazing is how little food it takes to run the colony. It's no wonder they can become such pests in homes - the glue off of a stamp must be able to feed a family for a month


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## invertepet (Mar 22, 2003)

Lobster roaches smell (especially if you grab them - YUCK, like bad B.O. and rotting cabbage combined). They're not that big even as adults, and the smaller ones are nearly impossible to grab. Furthermore, many T's I have won't eat the damned things (they probably smell bad them, too). So I give a thumbs-down to the lobsters unless you're adept at catching them and don't mind the smell and have spiders that will eat them. They CAN climb very well, so you have to use that Fluon stuff to prevent escape from unsealed containers. The upside to them is they're tough, reproduce very fast and eat just about everything so are easy to keep going.

I also like orange spotteds. They get nice and large, don't smell and I've fed them to 10" blondi before, so they're big enough for any tarantula. They just don't reproduce as fast as I'd like.

Good luck,

bill


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## Valael (Mar 23, 2003)

Anyone try death head roaches?



There's some for sale for $10 in the _For sale_ section.




He said they can't climb glass or smooth plastic.  And as much as I want to trust him, before getting a colony of roaches, I want to be 200% sure they can't climb plastic.


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## Code Monkey (Mar 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Valael _
> *Anyone try death head roaches?*


Wade raises these for feeders. They're a bit larger than B. dubia or B. discoidales - my two favorite species to recommend - but they fit the bill and the price is good. They are non-glass climbing, non-stinking, non-aggressive, well breeding roaches with no hardened exoskeleton.

Whatever you get, get as many as you can afford within reason to start with. The more breeding adults you have sooner, the sooner the colony will reach critical mass and become self sufficient. Starting with 18 nymphs, well 16 considering that I fed two of the adults out when they emmerged, I'm looking at about a 12 month start up period for the colony. In hindsight, considering what I'm going to have spent on crickets in that 12 month span, I should have started with at least 2X that number, maybe even 4 dozen.


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## Valael (Mar 23, 2003)

You've got me really considering those B. Dubias, but for $10 a dozen (for the death heads), it's hard to pass up.





I could get a couple dozen pretty cheap and have a (hopefully) decent colony in a couple of months..


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## Code Monkey (Mar 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Valael _
> *You've got me really considering those B. Dubias, but for $10 a dozen (for the death heads), it's hard to pass up.*


My wife doesn't know this yet , but if I see someone selling off B. discoidales at those kind of prices, I'll probably have a second roach colony in the closet. I'm not entirely sure why most of the dealers charge the prices they do. I guess at those prices, they never sell fast enough to deplete the parent colonies, letting them offer them year round instead of only when a colony is ready to burst.

I was tempted by the B. crannifer's myself, but I'd rather wait on some discoidales. I'm not in a hurry at this point. Besides, if you wait, by this fall I'll probably be offering some B. dubia at firesale prices as well. I've got a lot of room in that roach colony for them to expand into, but only 40 tarantulas and no herps. Although I curse how slow it has been to get started, once it's fully established there's just no way I'll be able to feed out of it quick enough to keep the population down.


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## Valael (Mar 23, 2003)

Maybe I'll hold out until you get them going, then.






I'd feel more comfortable buying from you than I would from some guy who only has a few posts here.  I'm not very trusting because of a few previous deals I had.


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## Wade (Mar 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Botar _
> *B. gigantea or gigantica?
> 
> Botar *


I think gigantea, but my books are at work and I haven't been there in 2 weeks (my wife just had a baby)!

I've kept these three blabs, and of the three, I'd say discoidles is the best producer, but gigantea are awsome just to look at! The late-stage nymphs are increadble, they look like trilobites!

Wade


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## atavuss (Mar 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Valael _
> *Anyone try death head roaches?
> 
> 
> ...


I have about 40 or 50 death head roaches, I have never seen them on the sides of their bins  (I keep them in plastic file folder plastic containers).  they seem hardier than mad hisser roaches, I have mad hisser roaches and death heads on the same shelf and the death heads seem to be producing more babies.  I will probably let the mad hissers just peter out and go with the death heads......
Ed


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## Buspirone (Apr 5, 2003)

I found this while looking for information on roaches. It gives some good info...especially if your like me and know nothing about them except how to spray them down with Raid.

http://www.geocities.com/lflank/roaches.html


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