# How many in 55 gallon tank?



## venomlover (Jul 25, 2013)

Long time lurker, rarely post. Decided to get back into scorpions as I have finally acquired some money.

I have an empty 55 gallon tank, which originally housed piranhas. I would like to fill it up with Androctonus australis AND Leiurus quinquestriatus, UNDIVIDED. 

(YES, I understand there may be some cannibalism and fighting, I'm willing to risk it. YES, I also understand they are super-di-duper dangerous, venomous, with nano gram LD50 values. and if i get stung it may kill me, my neighbors, my elephant, and anyone who looks at it. Whoever feels the need to warn me can save their time typing, as the warnings are in every thread on either species.) 

Now that's out of the way, my question is how many of each, is reasonable in a 55 gallon aquarium?

I desire the maximum amount possible, a large death farm. I would be happy if I couldn't see the sand because they were crawling on each other.

Realistically, I'm thinking 4 of each, 8 total. But my gut says 2 of each may be more reasonable. 55 gallons seems awfully big, what would be a good number?

Thanks for reading


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## AzJohn (Jul 25, 2013)

You'll have a tank full of death all right.


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## venomlover (Jul 25, 2013)

I'm sorry, that answer is incorrect. The correct answer should be in the form of a number. Thanks for playing. :wink:

I'm just kidding, who do you think would win the battle?


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## AzJohn (Jul 25, 2013)

venomlover said:


> I'm sorry, that answer is incorrect. The correct answer should be in the form of a number. Thanks for playing. :wink:
> 
> I'm just kidding, who do you think would win the battle?


Here is the correct answer, you can have one of those scorpions in that tank, not one each, one total. If you end up with a male/female pair you may be able to keep two in their for a while provided they are the same species.


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## lancej (Jul 25, 2013)

You MIGHT be able to get away with a pair of each for a little while.  You would need a lot of visual barriers.  You would also need feeders in the cage constantly.  The only way I could see this being successful in any way would be to have the tank divided with plexiglass dividers until they all established their own territories, then remove the dividers and hope for the best.  Eventually you will be left with 1, maybe a pair of scorpions (probably the Androctonus australis).  A more realistic setup would be with species that are at least semi-tolerant of each other.  I believe that Androctonus bicolor and A. mauretanicus can be kept together as adults if given enough space.


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## venomlover (Jul 25, 2013)

I've read that deathstalkers can be kept communally, is this incorrect? I've also read of instances where the australis has climbed over the divider into the deathstalkers side, without problem. So I think it can be done. 

Further more, just because it doesn't sound good on paper, doesn't mean it won't work. I personally have kept a Arizona desert hairy with an emperor in a 5 gallon without problem. They didn't get along at first but after the first week, all was well.


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## venomlover (Jul 25, 2013)

proof


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## lancej (Jul 25, 2013)

venomlover said:


> View attachment 119109
> 
> 
> proof


This is proof you shouldn't be keeping scorpions at all.  You were keeping species together with completely different needs.  How long did this last?  A couple of months?  If kept properly, both species should live for years as adults, especially the Hadrurus.

Reactions: Like 4


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## venomlover (Jul 25, 2013)

I am aware they require different conditions. The emperor was free and I had no place to put him. Think of it as an experiment. 

They lasted for 1 year, TOGETHER. The only reason why they died is because I went on vacation during the winter and left my roommate to take care of them. I think the temperature dropped too low and he didn't realize, or care. 

Thank you for the personal attack, real mature.

The proof is that two different species lived together without problem. Even further proof that they lived together FINE, under unideal conditions for the emperor. They are BUGS, and pretty hard to kill.


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## lancej (Jul 25, 2013)

venomlover said:


> I am aware they require different conditions. The emperor was free and I had no place to put him. Think of it as an experiment.
> 
> They lasted for 1 year, TOGETHER. The only reason why they died is because I went on vacation during the winter and left my roommate to take care of them. I think the temperature dropped too low and he didn't realize, or care.
> 
> ...


If it is an experiment, that is another thing.  Have you published the data on your previous experiment yet?  Without data, you have proved nothing.  Just to make things clear, this is not a personal attack.  I am just trying to see your logic here.  You didn't make it clear that you wanted to experiment to test a  hypothesis.  My apologies for the misunderstanding.  BTW, they are ARACHNIDS, not BUGS (which are types of insects).


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## venomlover (Jul 25, 2013)

Yes this is an experiment. I experiment by nature, that's just what I do. I am a scientist, not joking at all pH.D., currently in a post-doc position. My group is in the process of obtaining a grant to radio-label snake venom. This will tells us quickly where it goes, and what it's doing in the body. I happen to like scorpions myself. I had my first emperor at 9 years old. In the back of my head, I want to radio-label scorpion venom. But we have to figure out the snake venom first. With medicinal imaging agents, the more potent they are the better imaging agent. Thus A.A. and L.Q. are the most potent ones, and of high interest. 

 THIS is a personal experiment. I have no intent on publishing any of my date, because frankly I hate writing. Which is the reason why I don't post on forums. It's just too tediousness to make sure grammar is correct to appease the grammar police. It's annoying. Or having to make sure everything little minuscule fact is perfectly correct (I.E. "they are ARACHNIDS, not BUGS"), of course I know they're arachnids, but BUGS is 4 letters, it's faster to write. We get so off course discussing stupid things, that it's not worth my time.

I also know how to use the search engine and find things myself. The thing I can't find is my original question: how many of equal populations of A.A. and L.Q. can live together in 55 galloon tank. I can't reasonably control all variables, like size of each scorpion, where they decide to take up hiding, ect. 55 gallons is fairly spacious for a 2-4 inch scorpion, I think multiple can be housed together. But i've never done a communal setup like this before. 

Therefore I will rephrase the question: If everything was wonderful and they were the bestest of friends, and they didn't all kill each other, how much space do they need? How many would fit in 55 gallon tank. Not filing it to the top, but living space. They will have plenty of food. 

Also, why are you concerned with what I do? You don't know me and you're making assumptions based on 4 posts. I'm the one taking the risk, I'm the one providing the money, and the care. If anything, you should WANT to see how this goes. Let someone else lose money. What if it works? what if they all lived together fine and there were no deaths? Would that change your mind on different species communal housing? Instead you're further giving into why I don't post and driving off a forum memeber since FEB 2006. 

Ok I'm done venting, sorry if I've stepped on toes


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## ShredderEmp (Jul 25, 2013)

I just don't think that anyone has tried it before and that is why there are no definite answers. If you really wanted to try this I would just do it one at a time, and if one gets eaten, I would consider it over.


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## venomlover (Jul 25, 2013)

I'd rather throw them in all at once. Let them get acquainted with each other as quickly as possible. Have you ever been the new kid trying to fit in with a clique at new school?

Lets say I throw 1 AA and 1 LQ together in a 55 gallon. They live, like I expect them to, but the next one added throws off the balance and they eat him? experiment over?

Lets say I throw in 4 AA and 4 LQ together in a 55 gallon. One gets eaten but the rest live fine, would that be a success or failure?


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## Ludedor24 (Jul 25, 2013)

1st. - Ill answer the question haha since I'm not sure you received one yet. I usually put about 1 scorpion per 5 gallons , now obviously you have more vertical height being a 55 gal tank rather than floor space so you may want to cut that number some.

My main question would be that if this is your experiment why are you curious to hear from others as to how many would fit comfortably in a controlled space? Does this not effect your experiment or what you may or may not be trying to achieve?

I hope you can understand why some others may be perturbed by your experiment as this is a forum has many who have a non-risk (to the creature) view point.


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## venomlover (Jul 25, 2013)

I need a starting point. I'm sure somebody else has tried putting a few LQ or a few AA together separately. what size did they use. I'm never had either species so I can I can't quite predict how they will react. I can either learn on the fly or simply post a question of a forum in hope that someone else has tried it before? Best answer I got was from lancej who claimed a pair of each might work, which I said was my gut feeling in the first post of this thread.  I'm not going for maxium possible. It's a dream yes, but I would like to try this communal setup. Worst case scenario it looks cool as hell for a few days.

I understand peoples non-risk approach with animals, I absolutely LOVE animals, I've had tons of different things in my life, snakes, spides, hedgehog, ferrets, dogs MANY scorpions. As far as experimentation is concerned, I am completely opposite of that. I experiment on animals for a living. I tested a brand new drug on 3 mice a month ago. Killed all 3 of them instantly. It contained a impurity I forewarned my superiors about, but they were ok with. And we're about to do another round in a month. How would this be that much different then setting a mouse trap or feeding a live mouse to a snake. It's just the nature of life, accept it or don't makes no difference to me. If we didn't develop drugs, PEOPLE not animals, would die a lot faster. Which do you prefer? 

In the grand scheme of things, we are talking about BUGS. I smashed a spider in my house the other day because my wife was freaking out. Its now dead but nothing was learned. If I make a communal tank work, something would be learned. If they die, it'll be the same as the spider I killed. Only difference is I paid money for the scorpions. So I have a financial and emotional investment to them and will do everything in my power to see that they live.


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## Cowin8579 (Jul 25, 2013)

You aren't focused on the health, well being, safety, or happiness of the animals. Emphathy is a stranger.  You want it your way.  You are confident of any idea you have.  You react emotionally in defense but use a cold affect with "jokes"to nullify social awkwardness.  Certain types of feedback are ignored.  You disregard input because it doesn't carry any weight with you.  You mention "elite" philosophy credentials without being asked.  Your sense of self is characteristic.  You might indeed get a kick out of what could happen in the tank.

I would forget the initial species you mentioned and go for Arizona bark scorpions.  If you want tropical, go for a Tityus species.  That will make a death tank minus the deaths.

Reactions: Like 1


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## venomlover (Jul 25, 2013)

Cowin8579 said:


> You aren't focused on the health, well being, safety, or happiness of the animals. Emphathy is a stranger.  You want it your way.  You are confident of any idea you have.  You react emotionally in defense but use a cold affect with "jokes"to nullify social awkwardness.  Certain types of feedback are ignored.  You disregard input because it doesn't carry any weight with you.  You mention "elite" philosophy credentials without being asked.  Your sense of self is characteristic.  You might indeed get a kick out of what could happen in the tank.
> 
> I would forget the initial species you mentioned and go for Arizona bark scorpions.  If you want tropical, go for a Tityus species.  That will make a death tank minus the deaths.



Did you read anything I just wrote? I'm trying to get as much input as possible but have spent the entire time defending myself. I'm glad you know me better than anyone else after a few posts. You my friend, are by far the most judgmental on this entire forum, congratulations here's a smiley face:sarcasm: What does changing from 2 desert species to 1 tropical species have anything to do with what I'm trying to accomplish? and yes I was "asked" about credentials as soon as publications were brought up. "If it is an experiment, that is another thing. Have you published the data on your previous experiment yet? Without data, you have proved nothing." 

I can see where this is going, and I have already wasted enough time on this forum. I will go back to lurking and ask others who are more knowledgeable and less judgmental. I sure as hell won't be posting my results

---------- Post added 07-25-2013 at 11:25 PM ----------

For anyone who happens to stumble upon this thread from google, 
This place is more helpful

http://www.venomlist.com/forums/index.php?/topic/27069-aaustralis-community/


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## Hammershot (Jul 25, 2013)

You want to do an experimental tank mix with species that are known to not get along with other scorpions(regardless of species).  This brings up the question of why does it matter how many you can house in a 55 gallon tank?  Put however many you want to put in there to complete your experiment.  You are already going against the natural order of things in regards to keeping said species, so quantity shouldn't matter much either.  I'm not a scientist and I can tell you exactly what will happen.  Scorpions will end up eating each other.  While I don't condone what you want to do since I look at scorpions as pets not subjects, I admit it would be interesting.


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## F1refly (Jul 26, 2013)

I commend you venomlover for wanting to try something different and go against the norm. You seem to be one of those kinds of people that think outside of the box and aren't afraid of trying something new and for that I commend thee. Now, I have no idea how long or how wide a 55 Gallon is. In South Africa we use the metric system. I have a 1.2 meter tank that's about 45 cm wide. It was given to me by some road worker contractors since it cracked and they moved around too much to use it. Now, I had pretty much the same idea as you but with Uroplectes and Parabuthus species. It worked for a time but had to remove everything as the sand wasn't ideal at all and clumped up too much when it got slightly wet. Now, if your tank is relatively large, maybe try three LQ's and three AA's. Or maybe even one or two LQ's. I am very interested in seeing how this works and would very much like to be kept updated. 

Now I obviously have a love for the critters (I wouldn't be here otherwise) but I have no problems with people wanting to experiment or if they have no other choice. Want to keep P. transvaalicus and T. obscurus together? Go for it, just get some pictures and setup the tank to the best of your ability and don't do it just because you've got money to blow or are sadistic.


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## Willem (Jul 26, 2013)

F1refly said:


> I commend you venomlover for wanting to try something different and go against the norm. You seem to be one of those kinds of people that think outside of the box and aren't afraid of trying something new and for that I commend thee. Now, I have no idea how long or how wide a 55 Gallon is. In South Africa we use the metric system. I have a 1.2 meter tank that's about 45 cm wide. It was given to me by some road worker contractors since it cracked and they moved around too much to use it. Now, I had pretty much the same idea as you but with Uroplectes and Parabuthus species. It worked for a time but had to remove everything as the sand wasn't ideal at all and clumped up too much when it got slightly wet. Now, if your tank is relatively large, maybe try three LQ's and three AA's. Or maybe even one or two LQ's. I am very interested in seeing how this works and would very much like to be kept updated.
> 
> Now I obviously have a love for the critters (I wouldn't be here otherwise) but I have no problems with people wanting to experiment or if they have no other choice. Want to keep P. transvaalicus and T. obscurus together? Go for it, just get some pictures and setup the tank to the best of your ability and don't do it just because you've got money to blow or are sadistic.



.......you made me embarrassed to be south African.
 As a BSc. Microbiology and Physiology student, nothing here shows any signs of scientific process and there seems to be a kind of molestation of the word "experiment". 

In firm agreement with Cowin8579: Nothing said here will change the mind of the OP, he will go ahead and incite a pointless massacre, learning nothing of scientific value - instead gaining maybe 100 "Likes" on Youtube from similarly minded individuals.

In conclusion, this post is aimed at no one, just an educated guess of events that may unfold.

 It seems that certain kinds of people lack any form of respect for nature or even the natural order... It is truly unfortunate to find such individuals in a community such as this.

Reactions: Like 4


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## bluefrogtat2 (Jul 26, 2013)

I have kept lqs in groups with success..I attempted to keep australis together...will end up with one australis....not communal at all


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## ~Abyss~ (Jul 26, 2013)

Why are you guys feeding the troll. This guy claims to have phd but was idiotic enough to put and emp with arizonensis. The emp even looks like he was dying in the picture. I'm sorry but you want serious answers dont go around showing how stupid your experiments have been in the past. If you've lurked the forum you know who the respected members are. AZJohn is one of them for sure. And I'm not one to insult someone I like to help people in the hobby properly care for scorpions, not help a mad scientist with his crazy expriments.

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## Cowin8579 (Jul 26, 2013)

As a professional councelor, I work with sociopaths.  They often bring up animals and scenarious.. Fantasies etc.  a Doctorate or Phd doesn't do work or method as described.  The rest of you posters are quite sharp.

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## F1refly (Jul 27, 2013)

Willem said:


> .......you made me embarrassed to be south African.
> As a BSc. Microbiology and Physiology student, nothing here shows any signs of scientific process and there seems to be a kind of molestation of the word "experiment".
> 
> In firm agreement with Cowin8579: Nothing said here will change the mind of the OP, he will go ahead and incite a pointless massacre, learning nothing of scientific value - instead gaining maybe 100 "Likes" on Youtube from similarly minded individuals.
> ...


Don't get me wrong, I'm not a sociopath or sadistic person. All I'm saying is that I myself have no real problems with people experimenting. I love animals dearly and while I commend Venomlover for wanting to try something new and go against the grain, I don't necessarily condone or support what he plans to do.

And I don't know if your last comment was also aimed at me, but I don't agree with that. I respect Nature wholeheartedly but do also support experimenting TO SOME DEGREE. I think humans have already messed up the Natural order of things enough just by introducing Dogs and Cats to just about everywhere. 

I think my previous post may have come across the wrong way and please don't take me for one of these people who torture animals for kicks


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## josh_r (Jul 27, 2013)

You should follow this basic rule.........

One animal..... PER GALLON!!!!

55 gal aquarium?? 55 SCORPIONS!!!!!


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## Cowin8579 (Jul 27, 2013)

lol just like 1 inch of fish per gallon Josh.

No the sociopathic theme was created with that person's emotional roller coaster, narcissism, reactions, bipolar posts, and lack of empathy.  I suspect they wanted to see which scorpions "won the fight" in order to see which is deadlier.  They had zero interest in any other species for that reason.  Also that emperor and desert hairy picture was both sad and wrong.

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## G. Carnell (Jul 27, 2013)

What would be cool for a 55 gallon tank (ignoring all trollage and insults ofc):

Setting up a diverse enclosure which requires minimal outside interference

picture this!

-Termite colony (food source) maybe one of the more exotic species which dont hide away as much
-lots of leaf litter, ie not just coco-peat
-outside moat to contain the termites (like leaf cutter ant enclosure type of thing)


Colony of Chaerilus species (communal, humid, small)

maybe a model of a ruined temple or something? ahhh bet my gf wont let me do any of this haha! nice to dream tho

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## Naga (Jul 27, 2013)

Personally, I would like to see what happened with the experiment. It may not last forever, of course. But then, what if he does have at least 6 alive by the end of the year? What if somehow, he did it? I somehow doubt he's looking to just get his jollies off. Do I condone putting intolerant species together? No. Do I condone the general harm of animals without some form of deserving or necessity? No. But maybe there is a factor in the group that he finds to keep half of the colony. Maybe there's a point somewhere where he does actually find an X factor. Or maybe everything dies. How does that NOT compare to your feeder creatures?

BTW, as for the big "natural order" thing... The natural order is to live and die. Everything else is just a detail. Everything lives, everything gives way for new life, and everything dies. All of a sudden, humans create the idea that "natural order" is to keep everything alive. If that's the case, what about that mosquito that you crushed last night? What about the fly you crush for trying to eat your food, and sustain itself? What about the crickets/roaches that you sacrifice to your other creatures? What about the plants and animals destroyed in the name of your meal? The whole "This animal is special and gets to live because I like it, while everything else can die!" thing is the same rationale that your common dog/cat owners use. Natural order doesn't change because of what your favorite animal is. It is to live, die, and watch all around you do the same (of each, really), not just "let's keep everything alive besides the things I don't like or die for my own purpose"

Getting back to the OP: I have no idea, really, but I would go with 1 per 10 gallons (as these are less tolerable than your typical emperors), and see if it would be possible to add a little more ground space somehow, perhaps through adding to the total ground space. Add LOOOTS of hides! That is an obvious, HUGE necessity!

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## aznative86 (Jul 31, 2013)

I have a tank with around 30-40 bark scorpions in it.. and have had them in it for close to 9months now and the only problem I have is babies! lol... they all cuddle up on top of each other and I have not had one kill another at all... just my 2 cents, and I would personally only recommend doing this with az barks because I have had them like this sense I caught them all in a two night span


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## Hammershot (Jul 31, 2013)

aznative86 said:


> I would personally only recommend doing this with az barks because I have had them like this sense I caught them all in a two night span


I can recommend doing this with C. Vittatus also.  Very similar to C. Sculpturatus, but not quite as mean of a sting.  I caught many(roughly 30) over a weekend camping trip in Oklahoma and keep them as a colony.  Very active scorpions (as are most bark scorpions) and fun to watch.  They seem to like fairly large prey in proportion to their own bodies, and they almost always sting their prey.   I have had only 1 case of cannibalism (Woke up and found a large male munching on a female).  So far my only issue has been that they are baby making machines.

Here are a few pics of some of my Vittatus:


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## pannaking22 (Aug 1, 2013)

What is your control? Hypothesis? Methods? Is there any other literature to back this up or lend credibility to the experiment? How many times are you planning on running the experiment? What will sample sizes be?

People can say that they have had success keeping X species and Y species together for so long, but what quantifies success? I could keep X and Y together for a week before they kill each other and call it success because they managed to tolerate each other for that week. Kind of doubting anyone else would call that a success though. You can say that you had success keeping the emperor with the H. arizonensis, but the emperor still died (whether it was due to long term stress of being in a poor environment or your roommate's carelessness we only have hearsay). Posting the picture of that and calling it "proof" essentially destroyed a large amount of your credibility right off the bat. To be blunt, that came off as being arrogant more than anything.

There are some members here who have a ton of experience with a lot of scorpion species, so I would definitely be listening to what they have to say. Taking shots at them (i.e. "more knowledgeable") when they tell you that it's probably not going to work isn't the greatest thing to do either. You can't post something like that and be fishing for only the answer you want to hear. That's not science.

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## venomlover (Aug 2, 2013)

Sociopath here to stir the bee hive,

1 week update for anyone who is curious, ALL IS WELL (WHICH IS NOT POSSIBLE) 





You guys should go criticize this fool. Who does he think he is, having that tiger with that dog. That will never work. He needs full mental health assessment over the internet.


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## AzJohn (Aug 3, 2013)

venomlover said:


> Sociopath here to stir the bee hive,
> 
> 1 week update for anyone who is curious, ALL IS WELL (WHICH IS NOT POSSIBLE)
> View attachment 119322
> ...


I was trying to stay out of this, but your picture of the bark scorpion and the desert hairy living together is just foolish. From my experiences of dealing with and observing this species in the wild, they will readily eat other scorpions including bark, and other desert hairy scorpions.  In fact they are really good at it. Your success is do to the fact that your desert hairy is not feeling hungry. I haven't read anything on this thread since I last posted including all of the stuff in between. So, if I'm repeating someone elses common since, I apologize. This attempt is better than the plan you started out with. At least these species do not occupy the same space in the environment, like the andro and LQ would have. If you really are insistent on trying this "experiment", you should try to do some sort of research on the animals involved before jump in, that way you may have learned that hadrus make it a habit of eating other scorpions. The poor bark is just an expensive feeder.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## Cowin8579 (Aug 3, 2013)

There is a cricket in the photo, which hints that they are crawling all over the enclosure.  This isn't ideal, for a variety of reason.  Scorpions stressed over a period of time... You can assume the rest.

I've been working with lions and tigers off and on for 10 years.  We often use dogs to help raise the cats.  The dogs would eventually get seriously injured or killed if they weren't separated.  Isn't that obvious?  Big predators kill their own kind to remove competition, and they do so by removing lessor predators.  It's not relatable to scorpion behavior due to social structuring.


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## lancej (Aug 3, 2013)

venomlover said:


> Sociopath here to stir the bee hive,
> 
> 1 week update for anyone who is curious, ALL IS WELL (WHICH IS NOT POSSIBLE)
> View attachment 119322
> ...


Let us know in a month how many you have left.
Like Cowin8579 said, dogs are often used to help raise baby tigers (and in case you are wondering, that is a BABY tiger).  It helps with their socialization.  Since scorpions don't share the same type of socialization skills that a lot of mammals do, there really is no comparison.

Reactions: Like 2


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## pannaking22 (Aug 3, 2013)

Congrats on getting them to last a week (not trying to sound sarcastic, really congrats), but once again your arrogance is really shining through on this one. I know it's tough to be understood when all you're doing is just typing, but really it's quite clear here. Anymore you are just trying to get people riled up by doing a half thought out experiment. Pretty sure you wouldn't have posted anything if they were dead by now, but you just want to rub it in everyone's face because you are having short term success.

If you are going to post pictures of the tiger and dog though, you may want to do a little research first in why/how they are being kept together before posting stuff like that.


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## Cowin8579 (Aug 4, 2013)

I feel bad for the scorpions being descended upon by a hoard of crickets 24 hours a day.  If that's an ounce of prevention... something will give.


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## aznative86 (Aug 5, 2013)

I will have to agree, keeping a bark scorpion with a hairy is just dumb. On the other hand what qualifies success with a bark colony is that there has been 0 deaths for 9-10months currently, 12 successful gravid females and babies, younger scorps have molted with no problem, I wouldn't keep a bark scorpion by itself they honestly seem to enjoy the company considering there is so many other places/individual places to hide and they all choose the same spot.


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## venomlover (Aug 5, 2013)

At this point, it doesn't matter what I say or do, I'll get attacked. I've accepted that. 


Who said anything about putting a bark scorpion in with hairy??? Not me, that was never my plan. That would be AzJohn's misidentification, that everyone went with.  

And I love how you guys are so quick to judge every little thing based on NO information. That is a zoomed in picture of a 55 gallon setup with 2 crickets in the photo. 3, if you include the one being eaten. So I'm glad you guys are talented enough to infer there must be "hoards" of crickets in there and the reason for my success is "the desert hairy isn't hungry." I'm sure with your excellent foresight, you guys can also tell me how many scorpions are in the tank, since of course you know how many crickets are in there. 

Here's a picture of ONE of the desert hairy scorpions, or is this the bark scorpion?


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## pannaking22 (Aug 5, 2013)

People may seem quick to judge, but honestly it seems like you are the one going in with no information. No, none of us can predict the number or scorpions or crickets in the whole enclosure based on that picture. It's a fairly sound inference though that the enclosure has a large number of crickets because of the number in the picture and because you will need a large number of them in there to make sure that no scorpions get eaten. I don't think that it helps that you give off the vibe of not really caring about what happens in regards to scorpion well being. Again, that could be because this is over the internet and when things are just typed, parts can get lost in translation. Happens to everybody. I want to give you the benefit of the doubt, but you seem hellbent on proving everyone wrong and stepping on as many toes as possible. Heck, that was how it seemed after your second post 





venomlover said:


> I'm sorry, that answer is incorrect. The correct answer should be in the form of a number. Thanks for playing. :wink: I'm just kidding, who do you think would win the battle?


If you continue posting, I hope it's without such a chip on your shoulder.

---------- Post added 08-05-2013 at 05:21 PM ----------

If you can get this to work for several months or even a year or more, I think that could be considered some success, though it would be good if breeding occurs in that time span.

Reactions: Like 1


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## lancej (Aug 5, 2013)

I personally hope you can prove us all wrong and turn the scorpion keeping community on its side.  It would be nice if you did treat this as an experiment so you could pass the knowledge gained on to the rest of us in the form of informal documentation (like what people do with the breeding reports on this site - not scientific, just informative).  The occasional picture really doesn't do anything other than prove that you were able to get them to not kill each other long enough for the picture.

Reactions: Like 1


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## pannaking22 (Aug 5, 2013)

I would be interested in seeing this work too. Documentation would be key here though. You won't be able to just post pictures with inflammatory comments. Write everything down and post it (again without inflammatory comments). If you have issues, people may be able to give you advice and you can get this to work.


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## venomlover (Sep 12, 2013)

Hey guys,

Remember that experimental tank with A.A.s and L.Q.s , we'll it worked (and is still working. They get along fine). However, now I got a dilemma, one of the yellow fat tails had a litter of scorpions. I've never dealt with breeding or little scorpions before. Now what? 


Your friendly neighborhood sociopath


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## ShredderEmp (Sep 12, 2013)

That is pretty interesting. Too bad that baby on the bottom left fell off and probably wont live unless you can get it in an ICU, but that doesn't always work. 

I would rehouse the mother that way the stress is lower and the babies have a better chance of living. Same setup that the female is in though. Leave the babies on the moms back until they come off on their own.


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## lancej (Sep 12, 2013)

Separate mom and the babies from the group.  When the babies leave her back, you can put her back in her main home.  The babies will need to be separated if you want to raise them.  Here is a care sheet:
http://venomlist.com/forums/index.php?/topic/18919-androctonus-australis-sotm-2-november-2007/


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## pannaking22 (Sep 19, 2013)

Thanks for the update. It's cool that it's still working. Definitely second lancej on this one.


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## KDiiX (Sep 19, 2013)

You're complaining that you were judged by some posts and called psychopath? Why you then act like a sadistic freak and call yourself scientists?  If you really have any clue of what it means to do scientific research you would have known that your "experiment" has nothing to do with any kind of experiment. Just doing something that wasn't done before isn't science or anything like a experiment. Btw what kind of scientists you are while being to lazy to documentate your "results"? For calling yourself lazy in writing you wrote a lot in this thread.... a lot of stupid stuff but a lot...there is a big difference in feeding crickets or roaches to scorpions or to set different species together to watch them fight, which was mot likely your intend, which you can't denie, you even asked who might win the fight. You say you love animals why you doing then "experiments" with them without any scientific value? Drugs tested on mouses etc have a scientific value, even though if its has none value testing it on just 3 mouses, which leads to the guess you're just the stupiest scientist on the planet or you sadistic,  choose your self ;-)

You think you had breeding success? I say no you hadn't! Why? A gravid wc A.australis giving birth in captivity is no success its just a minimum! Btw your brood is one of the smallest Androctonus sp. broods i ever saw so even that you failed! 

 You say it worked until now i really have to believe you don't tell the truth. I don't say that for no reason. 1. You choose A.australis to be one of the species, most people have no success to keep two australis communal for long term, especially if one female is gravid, they gonna eat or just kill everthing that keeps annoying them 2. Your "proof" are just senseless a picture where two scorpions sit side by side is nothing worth i saw so many pictures where people showed two different species of Scorpions or tarantulas beside eachother just to show their morphological differences that means not automatically they are communal. 3. I guess after all comments you wouldn't even tell if one or two would got eaten until now.

And for all who are thinking keeping communal species like C.vittatus communal with other C.vittatus is the same like keeping two different species together from which one of these is more then well known for being cannibalistic just one question: have you ever thought about what you are saying?

And just a last idea for venomlover i have i good idea for you to do a selfexperiment just put all the yet survived scorpion into your boxershorts and we will see who will win the fight ;-)
Ah ok almost forgot you asked why we care what you are doing. Nobody cares what you are doing as long as you could only harm yourself with it and i don't mean could harm you money because of loosing scorpions. You could harm yourself, the scorpions and the hole hobby by such sadistic "experiments". People like you are the best pr-example for everyone who wants to prohibit keeping exotic or venomous animals.


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## Naga (Sep 20, 2013)

Wow. Nice flaming. I think you contradicted yourself some, Kdiix. It really is a cool experiment, and even if he doesn't give a 30pg report

OP: Awesome results so far!


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## KDiiX (Sep 20, 2013)

Naga said:


> Wow. Nice flaming. I think you contradicted yourself some, Kdiix. It really is a cool experiment, and even if he doesn't give a 30pg report
> 
> OP: Awesome results so far!


Calling something a experiment which has no scientific or other value is just stupid. If something happens in this "experiment" it could be just by chance or just a excuse it would never proof its a good or bad idea to set them communal. Even a 30pg report wouldn't help to proof or to show anything, if he is a real scientist like he pretend he would have known that this "experiment" is just nonsense. 
And if you serious please tell me how i should have contradicted myself! 

Btw what results are awesome a picture of a L.quinquestriatus beside a A.australis or a picture of a failed brood? Heres a picture of another brood were i could have told you she was communal with a A.versicolor,  3 P.smithi, 4 different Uroplectes sp, P.villosus oranje and a hedgehog would you believe me that just because it would have been cool?
 
Btw even this brood was small but at least double size of his brood he pictured.


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## freedumbdclxvi (Sep 20, 2013)

venomlover said:


> Remember that experimental tank with A.A.s and L.Q.s , we'll it worked (and is still working. They get along fine).


I would be interested in knowing what constitutes "working" and "fine".  Short term lack of aggression doesn't seem a success to me.  Example:  I fed my Poecilotheria regalis a house gecko prior to attempting to breed her.  For nearly two months, this gecko survived in the enclosure.  If my parameters only included those short weeks, I could claim i was "successful" keeping geckos and tarantulas housed together.  However,  she soon after munched her intnded meal.  The point being - you need long term keeping to determine whether it works or not.  I would recommend separating them before the aggression begins.


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