# Newbie waiting on her first Ts in the mail!



## Radium (Jun 10, 2015)

I've loved spiders my whole life, and been fascinated by Ts for years, but never really had a good opportunity to do the deed before now. I'm waiting on my first two Ts, _A. geroldi_ and _L. violaceopes_ slings, in the mail. I know _L. violaceopes_ is a classic example of what not to get as a beginner, but it's a carefully-considered bad decision, and I have a new home lined up if it turns out I really can't handle it. The first thing I bought was a pair of really long forceps.

Extremely excited!


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## scott99 (Jun 10, 2015)

Why heck did you get a L.violaceopes  as you have stated you are only a beginner. You can't just read some things on the web and then think you ready for a OW.

Reactions: Like 6


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## TownesVanZandt (Jun 10, 2015)

Congratulations! I´m against the idea that everyone has to start with such and such species. If a _Lampropelma violaceopes_ is the spider that interest you the most, you should definitely get it

Reactions: Like 4 | Funny 1


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## Radium (Jun 10, 2015)

scott99 said:


> Why heck did you get a L.violaceopes  as you have stated you are only a beginner. You can't just read some things on the web and then think you ready for a OW.


I'm not going to claim that I'm faster, smarter, or better than all the other noobs - basically, it's a calculated risk. If I get bitten, that's 100% my fault. If he or she escapes because I'm too slow at a critical moment, well, my apartment is nice and toasty with lots of stuff to climb. If I really can't handle it, I have an interested (and much more experienced) hobbyist who'd love to take a Singapore Blue off my hands, male or female. 

I figure if it goes well, that doesn't make me some kind of tarantula whisperer; it's dumb luck. If it goes badly, again, no one to blame but myself. The spider's welfare won't be compromised regardless, and that's all that really matters to me. That being said, I'm just as excited about the _A. geroldi_

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TownesVanZandt said:


> Congratulations! I´m against the idea that everyone has to start with such and such species. If a _Lampropelma violaceopes_ is the spider that interest you the most, you should definitely get it


Thanks! I know a few people have started with pokies and come out fine, so I'm fairly optimistic. The only thing that seriously concerns me is cage transfers because they're so fast, but the Avic should be good for some practice also.


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## ARACHNO-SMACK48 (Jun 10, 2015)

Please tell me they are slings? Oh boy.... that's a terrible idea...too late now though.... you can read up as much as you want but it won't prepare you for OW speed. In general, they can and will move faster than you can react so you have to take this into account when working with them. Also, beleive it or not they can  run up your forceps, bite you, and run back into their enclosure before you can say ouch. So please exercise extreme caution when dealing with OWs and make sure to seek help from the people on these boards if you have any questions.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Poec54 (Jun 10, 2015)

TownesVanZandt said:


> Congratulations! I´m against the idea that everyone has to start with such and such species. If a _Lampropelma violaceopes_ is the spider that interest you the most, you should definitely get it



That's how people get bit and escapes happen, and what leads to bans.  Not like the public is on our side.  Is it really worth losing the right to own tarantulas because some beginners want to get in over their heads right off the bat?

Reactions: Like 7


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## scott99 (Jun 10, 2015)

arachno-smack48 said:


> please tell me they are slings? Oh boy.... That's a terrible idea...too late now though.... You can read up as much as you want but it won't prepare you for ow speed. In general, they can and will move faster than you can react so you have to take this into account when working with them. Also, beleive it or not they can  run up your forceps, bite you, and run back into their enclosure before you can say ouch. So please exercise extreme caution when dealing with ows and make sure to seek help from the people on these boards if you have any questions.


+1 archnosmack48.

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## Poec54 (Jun 10, 2015)

Good intentions aren't enough, neither are pretty colors; you need experience for those.  I wish you would have done more research and asked here before ordering.  Many beginners lose Avics; their care needs are vey specific and they're not as adaptable as most terrestrials. Classic thread on tarantula forums: 'My Dead Avic.'  

OW arboreals are not beginner species, anymore than racing stock cars is a good idea for student drivers.  While most Poecs calm down (somewhat) with age, Lampros and the other OW arboreals stay high strung and are prone to fast, unpredictable dashes, and you have no idea where they're headed (neither do they).   I've had juveniles and subadult LV's run laps on the sides of their cages in a blur.  You are not ready for that, nor will you be as fast as they grow.

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## Ellenantula (Jun 10, 2015)

:wall:


Radium said:


> I'm not going to claim that I'm faster, smarter, or better than all the other noobs - basically, it's a calculated risk.


I'd redo the math in that calculation.



Radium said:


> If I get bitten, that's 100% my fault. If he or she escapes because I'm too slow at a critical moment, well, my apartment is nice and toasty with lots of stuff to climb. If I really can't handle it, I have an interested (and much more experienced) hobbyist who'd love to take a Singapore Blue off my hands, male or female.


Sure, if your experienced hobbyist can even find your bolted T, or you're not still in the emergency room from a bite, you know, so you can let the guy in your apt to retrieve the T.



Radium said:


> I figure if it goes well, that doesn't make me some kind of tarantula whisperer; it's dumb luck. If it goes badly, again, no one to blame but myself. The spider's welfare won't be compromised regardless, and that's all that really matters to me.


And if things go wrong and others find out about it -- there's another incident report to help get Ts banned.  Your whole post is about you and what you want -- not about giving an advanced T a home with an expert who can provide the care and experience the T needs.  What about others in the hobby who don't want Ts banned because some newbie gets an advanced T and makes some critical error?

You have a lot stacked against you ... and therefore, stacked against the T.  No one can completely guarantee any spider's safety -- but you don't even have experience to fall back on.

I've been in this hobby over a year, and still don't have Singapore Blue.  Do I like them?  Of course -- it would be a dream T.  But it deserves a more experienced home than I can offer it.

And you've already ordered it.

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## TownesVanZandt (Jun 10, 2015)

Poec54 said:


> That's how people get bit and escapes happen, and what leads to bans.  Not like the public is on our side.  Is it really worth losing the right to own tarantulas because some beginners want to get in over their heads right off the bat?


Of course not. I do however trust that people, who knows the risks involved will take the necessary precautions to prevent their Ts from escaping and potentially hurt the general public or other peoples pets by simply doing all rehousing in a room with no possibility of the T leaving it.

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## rockpython (Jun 10, 2015)

TownesVanZandt said:


> Congratulations! I´m against the idea that everyone has to start with such and such species. If a _Lampropelma violaceopes_ is the spider that interest you the most, you should definitely get it


This. Get what you want. As I have said before, they are spiders, not lions. caution is called for, but a bite wont kill you IF you get bit. Dont let the others on here that know everything tell you how to do it. That said, there ARE a lot of legitimately knowledgeable folks on here that disagree with me. There is only one right way to do this hobby: "what is going to give you the enjoyment you seek?"

good luck

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## MrsHaas (Jun 10, 2015)

Don't want to be a jerk but this is very ill advised... You don't have the experience.  Classic newb ego mistake.  I've been in this hobby more years than my fingers and toes and I'm not ready for a violecepes!  Also... Why get a pet that you know you may have to give away?  That seems very half baked.  But since you're hellbent on getting it against others seasoned advice, make sure you ask questions and do as much research as possible...

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## Radium (Jun 10, 2015)

They're both 1" slings. The thought of a completely wet behind the ears enthusiast trying to get a grown OW arboreal into its enclosure is hilarious, but not something I'd care to try.


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## Ellenantula (Jun 10, 2015)

Slings are super fast too -- esp OWs.  I should know, had a few.  And as a newbie, I thought I understood fast -- I mean, fast just means they're fast -- yes?
No!  They teleport -- your eye cannot always follow their bolt -- it's extremely super speedy fast.
It's why newbies aren't encouraged to get them.  
And, until you gain experience -- you don't really know for sure how you would react if one ran up your arm, or bit you, or bolted across the room and you lost track of him (easy to do!)

I am excited when newbies get a T -- but a Singapore Blue?  Absolutely no way would that ever be recommended as a first T.  Not even as a sling.  
It's nothing against YOU -- it's against any newbie starting out with such a hot OW T/sling.

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## Radium (Jun 10, 2015)

Ellenantula said:


> :wall:
> 
> 
> I'd redo the math in that calculation.
> ...


If it makes you feel any better, there won't be any incident reports.

As to it being about me and what I want...for whom in the tarantula hobby *isn't* it about them and what they want? I've seen the occasional rescue, but for the most part people get pets for their own enjoyment.

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Ellenantula said:


> Slings are super fast too -- esp OWs.  I should know, had a few.  And as a newbie, I thought I understood fast -- I mean, fast just means they're fast -- yes?
> No!  They teleport -- your eye cannot always follow their bolt -- it's extremely super speedy fast.
> It's why newbies aren't encouraged to get them.
> And, until you gain experience -- you don't really know for sure how you would react if one ran up your arm, or bit you, or bolted across the room and you lost track of him (easy to do!)
> ...


Thanks! I'm not taking it personally, and I'm not going to get upset over the (very valid) criticism I'm receiving here. I know it probably looks like I mentioned the _L. violaceopes_ sling to cause a fuss, but I was actually hoping for advice in general, and scolding counts as advice.

I've been researching and agonizing over this specific species for about 10 years, but I realize that knowledge doesn't replace experience. I guess you could say it's a dream for me, and I'm prepared for the consequences of taking such a big and ill-advised step. All the same, I understand why I appear to be a lunatic or, worse, uncaring. I appreciate you (and everyone else) not sugarcoating it, because while I am optimistic, it's more important to be realistic.

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## MrsHaas (Jun 10, 2015)

On the contrary, it should always be ab your Ts and what's best for them, IMO.

And by saying there won't be an incident reports do u mean you won't be reporting any incidences if they occur?  I'm sure if something gets out the media would have a field day with it regardless...

I hate to be a negative nancy but Either way, congrats on your new addition and I wish you the best of luck

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## Ellenantula (Jun 10, 2015)

Radium said:


> If it makes you feel any better, there won't be any incident reports.
> 
> As to it being about me and what I want...for whom in the tarantula hobby *isn't* it about them and what they want? I've seen the occasional rescue, but for the most part people get pets for their own enjoyment.


Of course I get enjoyment out of my Ts too -- but their needs are high priority or I won't have them. And if you want healthy long-lived Ts -- their needs have to take precedence over our selfish wants.  
I want a Singapore Blue.... I don't have one. I lack the experience to give one the best home possible or to handle one when things don't go as planned/hoped. 
Or maybe I would do fine, but I would prefer to gain more experience before attempting such an advanced T.

As a newbie -- the speed, risks and special needs of this T simply aren't registering for you.  
What can anyone here tell you given you know it's an advanced T but have chosen to ignore that and proceed full speed ahead anyway.

I'd give it to my experienced hobbyist friend when it arrives.

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## Radium (Jun 10, 2015)

MrsHaas said:


> On the contrary, it should always be ab your Ts and what's best for them, IMO.
> 
> And by saying there won't be an incident reports do u mean you won't be reporting any incidences if they occur?  I'm sure if something gets out the media would have a field day with it regardless...
> 
> Either way, congrats on your new addition and I wish you the best of luck


Thanks!

I'm not going to go to the E.R. for a tarantula bite. My deductible is frankly ridiculous, and there's nothing they can do for me that I can't do at home. 

I think the idea that it's all about the Ts and what's best for them is...well, an ideal. I hear it said a lot, but the reality seems to be pretty give and take.


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## TownesVanZandt (Jun 10, 2015)

Please excuse my ignorance of how the legal system works in America, but do you actually fear that owners getting bit by tarantulas or stung by scorpions will lead to a ban on keeping them as pets? My impression from abroad is that all kinds of crazy animals that are not at all suited as pets (cobras, lions, crocodiles, monkeys etc.) are being legally kept there?

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## Ellenantula (Jun 10, 2015)

Radium said:


> I think the idea that it's all about the Ts and what's best for them is...well, an ideal. I hear it said a lot, but the reality seems to be pretty give and take.


Well, again, another upsetting statement.  You don't want to start out basing decisions on what other people do wrong.  Just because some people don't do what's best for Ts doesn't make it right -- it's hardly the group you want to be classified with.

Again, it's not personal, it's just anyone with some experience and knowledge of Singapore Blues can see this is likely a disaster in the making.  
I certainly don't WISH anything to go wrong -- I am just more aware of the reality of speedy hot OWs than I was, say, when I was a complete newbie.
But if it goes well -- consider is pure dumb luck.  lol (had to tease you a little!)

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TownesVanZandt said:


> Please excuse my ignorance of how the legal system works in America, but do you actually fear that owners getting bit by tarantulas or stung by scorpions will lead to a ban on keeping them as pets? My impression from abroad is that all kinds of crazy animals that are not at all suited as pets (cobras, lions, crocodiles, monkeys etc.) are being legally kept there?


All sorts of animals are banned here, in varying locales, from snakes, to ferrets, to pitt bulls.  If the public fears something or an eco-system is threatened (real or imagined) -- well, animals DO get banned.  And if enough T bites or escapes or what-have hits the media -- they WILL go after Ts.  And not just say OWs -- it would probably be a blanket ban.

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## Radium (Jun 10, 2015)

TownesVanZandt said:


> Please excuse my ignorance of how the legal system works in America, but do you actually fear that owners getting bit by tarantulas or stung by scorpions will lead to a ban on keeping them as pets? My impression from abroad is that all kinds of crazy animals that are not at all suited as pets (cobras, lions, crocodiles, monkeys etc.) are being legally kept there?


Laws vary from state to state, but people basically just ignore it and do what they want because our law enforcement's focus is on drugs instead. You'll get into trouble if you're really obvious about it and it's something that's a danger to the public, like a lion in your backyard, but the same can be said of certain dog breeds.


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## Poec54 (Jun 10, 2015)

rockpython said:


> This. Get what you want. As I have said before, they are spiders, not lions. caution is called for, but a bite wont kill you IF you get bit. Dont let the others on here that know everything tell you how to do it. That said, there ARE a lot of legitimately knowledgeable folks on here that disagree with me. There is only one right way to do this hobby: "what is going to give you the enjoyment you seek?"


You're off track.  I'm not worried about her.  It's the people she may live with, or who visit her house.  Getting bit by an escaped tarantula is a big deal, and one that could go viral.  She's ordered one spider that she doesn't have the experience to control.  We periodically see idiots here that get an OBT as their first spider; so in your mind it's okay if a beginner gets one and gets bit, or it escapes and a child in the house gets bit.  The important thing for all of us to remember is that the (irresponsible) owner got 'the enjoyment they sought.'  What better reason to have politicians ban our animals!  Definitely worth it.

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## lalberts9310 (Jun 10, 2015)

You can read up all you want, you can watch all the youtube videos available on the net regarding OWs, and you still won't be prepared for it practically.. If you have done enough research you would've known that you need to work your way up, not dive into the deep end head first.. i'd assume you don't have any animals, children or other people living in or around your immediate living area? OWs (especially aboreals) are lightning fast, devensive and potent (animals, children and elders won't deal well with a bite), have you ever considered the consequences of a potent T on the loose due to a rehouse/feeding/maintenance attempt gone wrong? Even if you have friends and family over and you have an escaped OW, and one of them gets bit, that wouldn't end well - adds to bad reputation of the hobby, and our already stereotyped spiders.. OWs will always be there, I don't understand the need for people to jump to advanced species head on, there are so many beautiful Ts out there suited for beginners

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## Poec54 (Jun 10, 2015)

Radium said:


> I'm not going to go to the E.R. for a tarantula bite. My deductible is frankly ridiculous, and there's nothing they can do for me that I can't do at home.



You really needed to do some research up front.  Big strong men have said the same thing, and gone to an emergency in the middle of the night from OW bites.  Even if you don't leak anything about the bite, friends and family can, or people at the emergency room.  It can quickly get out of your control, in spite of your best intentions.

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## Radium (Jun 10, 2015)

Ellenantula said:


> Well, again, another upsetting statement.  You don't want to start out basing decisions on what other people do wrong.  Just because some people don't do what's best for Ts doesn't make it right -- it's hardly the group you want to be classified with.
> 
> Again, it's not personal, it's just anyone with some experience and knowledge of Singapore Blues can see this is likely a disaster in the making.
> I certainly don't WISH anything to go wrong -- I am just more aware of the reality of speedy hot OWs than I was, say, when I was a complete newbie.
> But if it goes well -- consider is pure dumb luck.  lol (had to tease you a little!)


I honestly believe that I have a better-than-average chance of giving both these Ts a good home. (I have reasons, but I don't want to get into defending myself at that level of detail when you're just trying to help). That being said, I don't expect anyone else to believe me, and only time will really tell. If nothing goes spectacularly wrong, though, I agree that's just dumb luck.


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## MrsHaas (Jun 10, 2015)

On what basis are you any more skilled than any other newbie?  Giving it a good home and caring for it properly are different.  I just hope you don't end up getting the short end of the stick for everyone's sake.  With a perspective like this you will get eaten alive on this forum, too... Sorry to say so but it's true

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## lalberts9310 (Jun 10, 2015)

MrsHaas said:


> On what basis are you any more skilled than any other newbie?  Giving it a good home and caring for it properly are different.  I just hope you don't end up getting the short end of the stick for everyone's sake


I have to ask the same question, since op has just ordered his/her first Ts of which one is extremely care-sensitive and the other an OW aboreal, I don't think op can make that statement if s/he has never owned Ts, the more skilled newbies around here are the ones working their way up and making good decisions...


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## Poec54 (Jun 10, 2015)

TownesVanZandt said:


> Please excuse my ignorance of how the legal system works in America, but do you actually fear that owners getting bit by tarantulas or stung by scorpions will lead to a ban on keeping them as pets? My impression from abroad is that all kinds of crazy animals that are not at all suited as pets (cobras, lions, crocodiles, monkeys etc.) are being legally kept there?


Yes.  Many have been banned already.  Tarantulas cannot be owned in Italy; non-native tarantulas aren't allowed into Australia. Some cities in Germany have banned Poecilotheria.  The state of Florida banned the ownership of Avic avic and P cancerides for 10 years, and they've banned many scorpions (possibly centipedes).  Florida's also effectively ended the venomous snake hobby by requiring 1,000 hours training before issuing a venomous permit; it's almost impossible to get that many hours of training.  Who's going to spend that much time teaching you, and they're open for a lawsuit if you get bit by one of their snakes.  Not worth it to train someone.  

There's vocal anti-exotic pet groups in the US, politicians looking for a 'cause' to rally voters, & a public that fears these animals...combine that with show offs and beginners who get advanced species they lack the skill and experience to work with, and one high profile incident online can end the hobby here in a matter of days.  It's a very real possibility, and we're desperately trying to self-police so that we can keep the hobby going.

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## Radium (Jun 10, 2015)

MrsHaas said:


> On what basis are you any more skilled than any other newbie?  Giving it a good home and caring for it properly are different.  I just hope you don't end up getting the short end of the stick for everyone's sake.  With a perspective like this you will get eaten alive on this forum, too...


As I said close to the beginning of the thread, I don't consider myself in any way superior to any other novice tarantula enthusiast.

How are giving it a good home and caring for it properly (really properly, not just borderline) different? That's a perspective I've never heard before, so I'm interested.

ETA: I feel like I've gotten my share of chastening at this point, so I likely won't be replying to anything that's not advice. Nonetheless, thanks for helping me stay grounded!

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## BobGrill (Jun 10, 2015)

Poec, don't even bother.  There's an endless supply of these morons who say things like "I know I shouldn't have done this, because I'm a noob,  but I picked up an OBT today as my first tarantula!" There's plenty more where these guys came from.

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk

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## Radium (Jun 10, 2015)

lalberts9310 said:


> i'd assume you don't have any animals, children or other people living in or around your immediate living area?


Just to answer this - live alone, no other pets, and I think my last visitor was in 2010.


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## Ellenantula (Jun 10, 2015)

Radium said:


> How are giving it a good home and caring for it properly (really properly, not just borderline) different? That's a perspective I've never heard before, so I'm interested.


With assistance, you could put your T in an ideal enclosure size -- perfect humidity, ventilation, substrate -- the works.  But to care for it properly -- to open enclosure to feed, change water dish out, remove a bolus -- the care is the tricky part.  An expert could house it for you -- but the actual husbandry and maintenance .... better you than me opening that enclosure.  Beyond bolting escapes and bites -- if you goof up -- what if it breaks a fang on your tongs?  And you are going in blind.  Sorry, but blind is accurate here.

I hope you will rehome it with the expert you know and get yourself a nice Brachy or something.  And in five years *if you are ready* ... then get this dream T.

Right now, as others have stated -- you are putting other people at possible risk by only considering your own wants.
Hey, like I said -- I want a Singapore Blue too.
But I am NOT a newbie, so I KNOW I am not ready.

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## vespers (Jun 10, 2015)

L. violaceopes...lol...just wait until it decides to go into its cork tube...and not come back out for months at a time. Exciting, eh? But its a blue spider, right? :laugh:

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## lalberts9310 (Jun 10, 2015)

Radium said:


> but the Avic should be good for some practice also.


Both your Ts will be around 1", and if I'm not mistaking, L. Violaceopes grows way faster than an avic, so no help there, avics are a good intro to aboreals IF you have NW terrestrial care in check, meaning if you can care for NW terrestrials properly you'll be able to learn to care for an avic properly (which you don't because you never owned any NW terrestrials - most are great beginner Ts) - this you would've known if proper research were implemented.. the only Ts that can prepare you well for an OW aboreal is psalmopoeus and tapinauchenius (NW aboreals), which I would consider advanced genera, exactly like OWs but lack the potent venom, and way faster (taps) and way more defensive (psalmos) than avics.. also, if proper research were done, you would've known this

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## MrsHaas (Jun 10, 2015)

Proper care comes with experience.  Anyone can set up a nice enclosure (or "home").  People aren't trying to hurt your feelings they are trying to enlighten and educate you.  It's not likely this will be the last time you are "chastised" on this forum tho.  People here take the hobby very seriously and there are heated debates daily.  Just be ready for that.  People have gotten chewed out worse for less.  On AB if you can't stand the heat you gotta get up out the kitchen and that's the honest truth.  Just be prepared.  Over and out.

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## Ellenantula (Jun 10, 2015)

vespers said:


> L. violaceopes...lol...just wait until it decides to go into its cork tube...and not come back out for months at a time. Exciting, eh? But its a blue spider, right? :laugh:


Liar liar!  Sometimes you can see the blue tips of the legs peeking out.  hehehe

I am SO glad I waited before getting a Singapore Blue, and then got a GBB instead.   lol

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## Radium (Jun 10, 2015)

Ellenantula said:


> With assistance, you could put your T in an ideal enclosure size -- perfect humidity, ventilation, substrate -- the works.  But to care for it properly -- to open enclosure to feed, change water dish out, remove a bolus -- the care is the tricky part.  An expert could house it for you -- but the actual husbandry and maintenance .... better you than me opening that enclosure.  Beyond bolting escapes and bites -- if you goof up -- what if it breaks a fang on your tongs?  And you are going in blind.  Sorry, but blind is accurate here.
> 
> I hope you will rehome it with the expert you know and get yourself a nice Brachy or something.  And in five years *if you are ready* ... then get this dream T.
> 
> ...


Okay, you and I were thinking of different things when I said "good home." By "good home," I mean an all-around fairly ideal environment, not just its enclosure.

---------- Post added 06-10-2015 at 01:55 PM ----------




MrsHaas said:


> Proper care comes with experience.  Anyone can set up a nice enclosure (or "home").  People aren't trying to hurt your feelings they are trying to enlighten and educate you.  It's not likely this will be the last time you are "chastised" on this forum tho.  People here take the hobby very seriously and there are heated debates daily.  Just be ready for that.  People have gotten chewed out worse for less.  On AB if you can't stand the heat you gotta get up out the kitchen and that's the honest truth.  Just be prepared.  Over and out.


I don't mind being told off, especially when it's valid (as in this case), but I don't think there's much left for me to say in response. Not responding to criticism on the Internet is seen as cowardice, so I'm just explaining my reasoning. 

---------- Post added 06-10-2015 at 01:57 PM ----------




vespers said:


> L. violaceopes...lol...just wait until it decides to go into its cork tube...and not come back out for months at a time. Exciting, eh? But its a blue spider, right? :laugh:


I actually didn't buy it for the color, believe it or not. That'd be...really short-sighted, since it's an unsexable 1" sling. Also, Murphy's Law says it'll be male anyway...


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## cold blood (Jun 10, 2015)

Sorry dude, but those are BOTH incredibly bad choices to star out with.  Avics have a very specific level of care, and frankly most of the care info on them that is available for research, is just plain wrong or bad advice.   "My dead avic" threads are one of the most common newbie threads we see.    LV....well, that's a t I consider a step UP from a pokie.....putting it in an advanced class, even within the advanced species.

Its seriously NOT just about you...there's a whole hobby to consider that lies on the fringe of acceptance with much of the public.

And yes townes, bans require little in the way of research or knowledge (or reality)....unlike most things in gov't, bans can and do happen very quick and on a regular basis all over the country...bans are a real worry in this hobby.   Bans on t's and species of t's has already occurred many times all over the world, and the US is no different.  They are often reactionary and happen very quickly without much of a fight as 90% of the public is clueless to our hobby.

Good luck, but those better beginner t's you passed up (many of which are still pretty darn sweet critters), would have offered you valuable insight and actually prepared you for your dream t, which is better for you AND the t you get.....Are you terminally ill that you couldn't wait a year or two and actually gain experience or just really impatient??   Seeing as you say you researched for a decade, I hope you are healthy.

What you did was essentially like buying a nascar for your first car...and your first drive will be in the Daytona 500....doesn't matter a LICK how much research you have done, you couldn't possibly be prepared.

In fact, when it comes to t's, it actually takes a fair amount of experience BEFORE your research can even really be truly effective, as those without experience almost always end up focusing on the wrong educational material.....like care-sheets for example....cause there's way more bad info than good, without the proper experience, it can be difficult to tell the good from the bad.

As much as it bothers me for you to have just made this jump....THEN make a thread (which tells me your mind was made up, regardless of what you would have been told)....I will say I do appreciate how you are taking the criticism. :clap:  Enough of the "scolding" (hehe), and onto the critical bits of info you may require:


For the Avic, humidity should be of less concern than you probably have been led to believe...cross ventilation is exceedingly important, as is the use of a water dish.    Make sure you have a flat(ish) piece of wood for the t to climb vertically on, and surround that with foliage (plastic plants) so that your avic has plenty of anchor points with which to create webbing...a happy avic will quickly spin its self a home base.  I suggest putting it in a 32 oz deli cup, like you may get Chinese food in as they are cheap, east to ventilate, offer good visibility, are easily available and have a flexible lid that will allow access without destruction of the webbing, which will most likely be at the top.  You can keep it in this type enclosure till about 3.5"   A few rings around the top, and one down near the sub and you will be set....avoid ventilation on the lid (or minimize it, I put a few) as this will help you maintain a healthy micro-climate within the enclosure.   Avoid any enclosure without good cross ventilation or too much top ventilation.   Misting should be minimal, and relegated to the webbing (for drinking), while the sub can stay, for the most part, dry.   Many people struggle to keep this genus alive because they do not allow for much variance with regards to husbandry.....experience makes this a WHOLE LOT easier.....if you have issues, keep asking questions till you get it right, no matter how disparaging the criticism following becomes...you've already shown the ability to handle that  Keep slings at a minimum of 70 degrees.

While the LV is classified as arboreal and should be set up accordingly, they do tend to burrow or web a home on or near the floor, so don't be surprised if it acts terrestrial much of the time.   They require good cross ventilation as well, and moist, but not wet, substrate.   They can be heavy webbers and are good eaters, although they can be extremely reclusive, so you may go long periods at some point without seeing it.   I believe they are generally pretty light sensitive as well.   They eat well and grow quickly, so be prepared for a good sized t by Christmas and a big t in a year....This fast growth, means re-housing will occur more frequently....although due to their speed, they can deal well with larger enclosures, even when smaller.  Make sure you have many places for it to create a good comfortable hide, because without one, you can end up with frantic panic-like behavior at the slightest movement....they need a place to bolt to, or things can get hairy pretty quick.  Hollow cork is popular for good reason.

Reactions: Like 6


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## Radium (Jun 10, 2015)

lalberts9310 said:


> Both your Ts will be around 1", and if I'm not mistaking, L. Violaceopes grows way faster than an avic, so no help there, avics are a good intro to aboreals IF you have NW terrestrial care in check, meaning if you can care for NW terrestrials properly you'll be able to learn to care for an avic properly (which you don't because you never owned any NW terrestrials - most are great beginner Ts) - this you would've known if proper research were implemented.. the only Ts that can prepare you well for an OW aboreal is psalmopoeus and tapinauchenius (NW aboreals), which I would consider advanced genera, exactly like OWs but lack the potent venom, and way faster (taps) and way more defensive (psalmos) than avics.. also, if proper research were done, you would've known this


Interesting!

My original choice of T, for the record, was _Euathlus sp. red_.


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## cold blood (Jun 10, 2015)

Radium said:


> Just to answer this....I think my last visitor was in 2010
> 
> 
> 
> ...

Reactions: Like 2


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## TownesVanZandt (Jun 10, 2015)

Non-experienced keepers getting OW species always calls for getting the popcorn ready and watch the drama unfold on the forums  Whereas I completely agrees that this is a highly unusual choice for a first tarantula, we have no way of knowing whether the thread starter will be able to deal with it or not. She might do fine or she might run into problems. Only time will tell. In my opinion everyone is free to get into this hobby any way they like and not everyone would like to start with a Brachy or a Grammostola. With freedom also comes responsibilities and as long as the person keeping the T does take the moral responsibility of not putting other people at risk I can´t see any problems from a principal standpoint. It really is not that difficult to make sure to keep a tarantula in an enclosure that it cannot escape from, to do cage maintenance when no kids are around and to do rehousing in the bathroom or other places where there is no chance of the T bolting and subsequently escape the apartment. Being bitten herself is a risk with any animal, and whereas it goes without saying that it is a much higher chance of that happening with the T in question than a more docile species, this is something the thread starter seems to be perfectly aware of.

Reactions: Like 1


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## cold blood (Jun 10, 2015)

Radium said:


> Interesting!
> 
> My original choice of T, for the record, was _Euathlus sp. red_.


Best beginner t EVER.   Ya should have listened to your gut.....great t with a cult following they are so well liked by their owners.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Radium (Jun 10, 2015)

cold blood said:


> Sorry dude, but those are BOTH incredibly bad choices to star out with.  Avics have a very specific level of care, and frankly most of the care info on them that is available for research, is just plain wrong or bad advice.   "My dead avic" threads are one of the most common newbie threads we see.    LV....well, that's a t I consider a step UP from a pokie.....putting it in an advanced class, even within the advanced species.


I'm starting to feel like the Avic might be the bigger mistake here. I'd read that they're delicate and prone to dying in their first year, but an Avic breeder (in another country, so it's not like he's trying to sell me his stock) convinced me that it was a suitable beginner T. 



cold blood said:


> Good luck, but those better beginner t's you passed up (many of which are still pretty darn sweet critters), would have offered you valuable insight and actually prepared you for your dream t, which is better for you AND the t you get.....Are you terminally ill that you couldn't wait a year or two and actually gain experience or just really impatient??   Seeing as you say you researched for a decade, I hope you are healthy.


One of the reasons I got so far ahead of myself is that I don't have much space for tarantulas. I can fit two, maybe three, adult enclosures comfortably in the space available. That's also about the number of tarantulas I have time to care for properly. Since the females can be extremely long-lived, I wanted to make sure I got a shot at keeping the species I'm most interested in.  



cold blood said:


> For the Avic, humidity should be of less concern than you probably have been led to believe...cross ventilation is exceedingly important, as is the use of a water dish.    Make sure you have a flat(ish) piece of wood for the t to climb vertically on, and surround that with foliage (plastic plants) so that your avic has plenty of anchor points with which to create webbing...a happy avic will quickly spin its self a home base.  I suggest putting it in a 32 oz deli cup, like you may get Chinese food in as they are cheap, east to ventilate, offer good visibility, are easily available and have a flexible lid that will allow access without destruction of the webbing, which will most likely be at the top.  You can keep it in this type enclosure till about 3.5"   A few rings around the top, and one down near the sub and you will be set....avoid ventilation on the lid (or minimize it, I put a few) as this will help you maintain a healthy micro-climate within the enclosure.   Avoid any enclosure without good cross ventilation or too much top ventilation.   Misting should be minimal, and relegated to the webbing (for drinking), while the sub can stay, for the most part, dry.   Many people struggle to keep this genus alive because they do not allow for much variance with regards to husbandry.....experience makes this a WHOLE LOT easier.....if you have issues, keep asking questions till you get it right, no matter how disparaging the criticism following becomes...you've already shown the ability to handle that  Keep slings at a minimum of 70 degrees.
> 
> While the LV is classified as arboreal and should be set up accordingly, they do tend to burrow or web a home on or near the floor, so don't be surprised if it acts terrestrial much of the time.   They require good cross ventilation as well, and moist, but not wet, substrate.   They can be heavy webbers and are good eaters, although they can be extremely reclusive, so you may go long periods at some point without seeing it.   I believe they are generally pretty light sensitive as well.   They eat well and grow quickly, so be prepared for a good sized t by Christmas and a big t in a year....This fast growth, means re-housing will occur more frequently....although due to their speed, they can deal well with larger enclosures, even when smaller.  Make sure you have many places for it to create a good comfortable hide, because without one, you can end up with frantic panic-like behavior at the slightest movement....they need a place to bolt to, or things can get hairy pretty quick.  Hollow cork is popular for good reason.


THANK YOU. I know caps lock on the Internet is bad manners, but that's the most definitive and detailed advice I've gotten anywhere so far. Exactly what I need! It looks like I've got everything in order so far, at least.

Reactions: Like 1


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## rockpython (Jun 10, 2015)

Poec, I know you've been keeping Ts since Christ was in diapers, and I understand what you're saying. You make it seem like "advanced" Hobbyists don't ever have issues. Why would a newbie getting bit have any more repercussions than a veteran keeper? Plenty of bite reports. If they want to shut the hobby down, they have plenty of ammunition  here. I respect all of your opinions even if I disagree, but calling people idiots and morons is a little unprofessional and childish..

Reactions: Like 4


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## Radium (Jun 10, 2015)

cold blood said:


> Radium said:
> 
> 
> > Just to answer this....I think my last visitor was in 2010
> ...


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## awiec (Jun 10, 2015)

Just a small thought to add. I recall you saying that you feel confident that you are better prepared than most to provide a good home to these spiders better than most newbies. This statement bothers me as we've heard it over and over again that a person feels that they are "above the rest" and be fine...you're not the first nor are you the last to say such a statement. There is no shame going up the ladder like everyone else. I personally have 15 years of true spider experience and  I got into the hobby 2 years ago (on the date actually). I decided to start off with a calm NW, granted I got an Avic but having a lot of experience caring for true spiders and orchids I felt like I could strike the balance between air flow and humidity (also got advice from the breeder). Even then I still had a few things to learn from that little bitty A.versicolor and what I learned (and developed my reflexes) could only come from working with the spider for an extended period of time. Each step of the skill ladder prepares you for the next and just rushing does nobody any good. You are missing out on a lot of cool species because you didn't want to give them a chance.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Radium (Jun 10, 2015)

awiec said:


> Just a small thought to add. I recall you saying that you feel confident that you are better prepared than most to provide a good home to these spiders better than most newbies. This statement bothers me as we've heard it over and over again that a person feels that they are "above the rest" and be fine...you're not the first nor are you the last to say such a statement. There is no shame going up the ladder like everyone else. I personally have 15 years of true spider experience and  I got into the hobby 2 years ago (on the date actually). I decided to start off with a calm NW, granted I got an Avic but having a lot of experience caring for true spiders and orchids I felt like I could strike the balance between air flow and humidity (also got advice from the breeder). Even then I still had a few things to learn from that little bitty A.versicolor and what I learned (and developed my reflexes) could only come from working with the spider for an extended period of time. Each step of the skill ladder prepares you for the next and just rushing does nobody any good. You are missing out on a lot of cool species because you didn't want to give them a chance.


For what it's worth, if I had the space for more tarantulas, my wanted list is a lot longer...

Reactions: Like 1


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## cold blood (Jun 10, 2015)

Radium said:


> One of the reasons I got so far ahead of myself is that I don't have much space for tarantulas. I can fit two, maybe three, adult enclosures comfortably in the space available. That's also about the number of tarantulas I have time to care for properly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...

Reactions: Like 3


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## lalberts9310 (Jun 10, 2015)

Radium said:


> Interesting!
> 
> My original choice of T, for the record, was _Euathlus sp. red_.


Now that would've been an excellent choice

Reactions: Like 1


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## awiec (Jun 10, 2015)

Radium said:


> For what it's worth, if I had the space for more tarantulas, my wanted list is a lot longer...


I have about 35 spiders of all sizes and I could fit all of them on two small bookshelves (maybe one if I got creative) and it's way easier going to get 50 feeders as opposed to 2. Also you can raise your own feeders if you have a large enough collection to justify it (or as with Poec54 he just orders tubs of them online). I can feed, clean and water everything in 10 minutes if I wanted to but I usually take 20 minutes as I like to enjoy my time with my animals. I also work and go to grad school along with a large reef tank and huge plant collection, the spiders are not hard to fit into my schedule. They are one of those animals where the relation between how many you have and how much time it takes to care for them is not correlated very well.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Radium (Jun 10, 2015)

cold blood said:


> Radium said:
> 
> 
> > One of the reasons I got so far ahead of myself is that I don't have much space for tarantulas. I can fit two, maybe three, adult enclosures comfortably in the space available. That's also about the number of tarantulas I have time to care for properly.
> ...


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## cold blood (Jun 10, 2015)

rockpython said:


> Poec, I know you've been keeping Ts since Christ was in diapers, and I understand what you're saying. You make it seem like "advanced" Hobbyists don't ever have issues. Why would a newbie getting bit have any more repercussions than a veteran keeper?


Advanced hobbyists are less likely to put themselves or a t in position to hav issues, so those situations are far more rare....when a sketchy situation does arise, an advanced keeper is more able to control the situation and not let it get out of hand.    The better behavior is understood, the easier it is to recognize.

I've watched enough videos where the oop: hit the fan, and the common denominator is that I can almost always see it going bad, well before it actually does.   Experience allows you to prevent sketchy situations before they happen and deal with them more calmly and effectively if and when they do arise.

Reactions: Like 2


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## TownesVanZandt (Jun 10, 2015)

awiec said:


> Just a small thought to add. I recall you saying that you feel confident that you are better prepared than most to provide a good home to these spiders better than most newbies. This statement bothers me as we've heard it over and over again that a person feels that they are "above the rest" and be fine...you're not the first nor are you the last to say such a statement. There is no shame going up the ladder like everyone else. I personally have 15 years of true spider experience and  I got into the hobby 2 years ago (on the date actually). I decided to start off with a calm NW, granted I got an Avic but having a lot of experience caring for true spiders and orchids I felt like I could strike the balance between air flow and humidity (also got advice from the breeder). Even then I still had a few things to learn from that little bitty A.versicolor and what I learned (and developed my reflexes) could only come from working with the spider for an extended period of time. Each step of the skill ladder prepares you for the next and just rushing does nobody any good. You are missing out on a lot of cool species because you didn't want to give them a chance.


The thing is that tarantulas does not come in ladders. It is nothing but a mental picture that a lot of people in this hobby cling to as if it was a divine command. While I am sure this is useful to a lot of people, it also becomes problematic when people starts to think that everyone, not only themselves, needs to keep specific species in a specific order and that this is one and only way to be in this hobby.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## cold blood (Jun 10, 2015)

That's the thing radium, when we buy 3-10 slings at a time, its with the intent of moving some of them at some point.    Mailing t's is ridiculously safe...not that things can't go wrong, they can....but its rare and if packed well, they can last an amazing amount of time.   There's been many stories about slings being lost in the mail for weeks at a time, only to be alive and well when it finally arrives.


If you were gonna be that paranoid about shipping, you wouldn't be ordering them and having them shipped, right?

Then there's the AB classifieds....a place where you can sell your t's to experienced hobbyists.....not like selling them to an LPS or locally.   We've got a ton of experienced keepers here that are always looking to buy/sell/trade, how the t is taken care of after it leaves you shouldn't really be much of a concern...Although I certainly understand not wanting something you raised to end up neglected or cared for improperly.

Reactions: Like 2


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## rockpython (Jun 10, 2015)

cold blood said:


> Advanced hobbyists are less likely to put themselves or a t in position to hav issues, so those situations are far more rare....when a sketchy situation does arise, an advanced keeper is more able to control the situation and not let it get out of hand.    The better behavior is understood, the easier it is to recognize.
> 
> I've watched enough videos where the oop: hit the fan, and the common denominator is that I can almost always see it going bad, well before it actually does.   Experience allows you to prevent sketchy situations before they happen and deal with them more calmly and effectively if and when they do arise.


My point is, it DOES happen. Of those that do, why are those less likely to be used as ammunition for a ban? It happens often enough according to the reports on this site alone.. granted a newbie may be at higher risk, but some make it sound like those bites (on this site) don't adversely affect the hobby.


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## cold blood (Jun 10, 2015)

TownesVanZandt said:


> The thing is that tarantulas does not come in ladders. It is nothing but a mental picture that a lot of people in this hobby cling to as if it was a divine command. While I am sure this is useful to a lot of people, it also becomes problematic when people starts to think that everyone, not only themselves, needs to keep specific species in a specific order and that this is one and only way to be in this hobby.


I completely disagree.  The longer you are in this hobby, the more and more obvious the ladder rungs become.

Reactions: Like 1


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## ciColors (Jun 10, 2015)

reading this thread lead to me youtube some OW videos...if you haven't seen this guy's channel I recommend you check it out, even if they are a little old.  i wonder how fast one these would be at half its size, haha seems quite scary

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IE4kSwkJLl8

Reactions: Like 1


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## lalberts9310 (Jun 10, 2015)

Well what's done is done, so I'm going to give you some tips on rehousing, think you'll need it.. what I do when I rehouse my fast big feisty spiders is I make use of the "bag method". This is when you place a bag over the old enclosure, make a little hole in the bag big enough for your tongs to fit through (this is better than lifting the bag up to put the tongs through, you also then run a risk that you'll T try to get out), then gently coax the T into the bag, with some Ts this might be time consuming so patience is virtue, also the bag needs to be clear and remember a Ts fangs can still penetrate the bag so watch those fingers! When the T is in the bag you can place the bag into the new enclosure and coax it out of it, I like to place the old enclosure on its side (remove everything you possibly can but the substrate) with a bag over it, this is easier to get the spider inside the bag, also what is helpful is having towels placed around the enclosures a few feet away so when the T does escape during rehouse it will most likely hide inside the towels, this helps to prevent your T getting away from you and you can take a moment to catch a breath and gather your thoughts before you continue.. also make sure you have catchcups in reach at all times... I use the bag method everytime and always had success.. another method is placing the old and new enclosure adjacent to each other in the bathtub and just coax the T over and out and into the new enclosure, I don't like this method however, it's easy for a T to make a run for it but a lot of members here had success using it, also do rehousing in the bathroom behind closed doors and make sure all drains and windows are closed, and when you do rehousing in the bathtub make sure there's no household chemical residues in the bathtub.. 

Other general care advice - no heatmats and heat lamps, they are not reptiles, and don't mist to keep humidity up, they are not plants.. coldblood already advised you on specific care requirements on each specie so I'm not going to repeat it, provide waterbowls with water, 1" is plenty big for a waterbowl, and don't fret over the possibility of a T drowning, they can't drown.. no sponges or gel in waterbowls, just water that's it.. and waterbowls also help with humidity regulation, so don't mist your enclosures for humidity purposes, you can lightly mist once a week for the avic on its webbing for drinking, that's it.. if you do need to heat up the room where you keep them (if temps drop below 70) use a space heater, works best . Best of luck, and remember, respect for the T and it's enclosure, and never let your guard down, especially with the LV, never leave live prey in the enclosure for more than 24h, also refrain from feeding a T in pre-molt.. a cricket can harm and even kill a molting tarantula, also when you see it on it's back, don't disturb it, it's most likely molting, and refrain from feeding at least a week after molt, the new exoskeleton needs to harden up, a sof exo can easily be damaged (especially the fangs).. you'll notice the fangs are white after a molt, when it's completely black it has hardened (not red!)..

Reactions: Like 1


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## cold blood (Jun 10, 2015)

rockpython said:


> My point is, it DOES happen. Of those that do, why are those less likely to be used as ammunition for a ban? It happens often enough according to the reports on this site alone.. granted a newbie may be at higher risk, but some make it sound like those bites don't adversely affect the hobby.


Youre comparing someone like poec for instance...who hasn't been tagged EVER...to someone without experience, and I think that makes little sense.    Yeah, it CAN happen to anyone...certainly, but the odds of it happening to an advanced keeper are miniscule compared to that of a less experienced person.


Its like anything, experience makes for fewer mistakes.

Reactions: Like 2


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## TownesVanZandt (Jun 10, 2015)

cold blood said:


> I completely disagree.  The longer you are in this hobby, the more and more obvious the ladder rungs become.


The longer a person stays in a cult or a sect, the more obvious it is to him or her that their own interpretation is the only one leading to salvation

Reactions: Like 2


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## Radium (Jun 10, 2015)

lalberts9310 said:


> Well what's done is done, so I'm going to give you some tips on rehousing, think you'll need it.. what I do when I rehouse my fast big feisty spiders is I make use of the "bag method". This is when you place a bag over the old enclosure, make a little hole in the bag big enough for your tongs to fit through (this is better than lifting the bag up to put the tongs through, you also then run a risk that you'll T try to get out), then gently coax the T into the bag, with some Ts this might be time consuming so patience is virtue, also the bag needs to be clear and remember a Ts fangs can still penetrate the bag so watch those fingers! When the T is in the bag you can place the bag into the new enclosure and coax it out of it, I like to place the old enclosure on its side (remove everything you possibly can but the substrate) with a bag over it, this is easier to get the spider inside the bag, also what is helpful is having towels placed around the enclosures a few feet away so when the T does escape during rehouse it will most likely hide inside the towels, this helps to prevent your T getting away from you and you can take a moment to catch a breath and gather your thoughts before you continue.. also make sure you have catchcups in reach at all times... I use the bag method everytime and always had success.. another method is placing the old and new enclosure adjacent to each other in the bathtub and just coax the T over and out and into the new enclosure, I don't like this method however, it's easy for a T to make a run for it but a lot of members here had success using it, also do enclosures in the bathroom behind closed doors and make sure all drains and windows are closed, and when you do rehousing in the bathtub make sure there's no household chemical residues in the bathtub..
> 
> Other general care advice - no heatmats and heat lamps, they are not reptiles, and don't mist to keep humidity up, they are not plants.. coldblood already advised you on specific care requirements on each specie so I'm not going to repeat it, provide waterbowls with water, 1" is plenty big for a waterbowl, and don't fret over the possibility of a T drowning, they can't drown.. no sponges or gel in waterbowls, just water that's it.. and waterbowls also help with humidity regulation, so don't mist your enclosures for humidity purposes, you can lightly mist once a week for the avic on its webbing for drinking, that's it.. if you do need to heat up the room where you keep them (if temps drop below 70) use a space heater, works best . Best of luck, and remember, respect for the T and it's enclosure, and never let your guard down, especially with the LV


Oh man, I'm going to lose a lot less sleep over the rehousing issue now. That was the only thing really making me nervous, and while I'm still going to be exquisitely careful, I feel a lot safer about the bag method than I do any of the others I've read. Thank you so much!

Reactions: Like 1


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## rockpython (Jun 10, 2015)

cold blood said:


> Youre comparing someone like poec for instance...who hasn't been tagged EVER...to someone without experience, and I think that makes little sense.    Yeah, it CAN happen to anyone...certainly, but the odds of it happening to an advanced keeper are miniscule compared to that of a less experienced person.
> 
> 
> Its like anything, experience makes for fewer mistakes.


But your missing my question... the bite reports on this site from people who claim to have experience that happen to get bitten, how is that bite less relevant to the people who seek to ban our hobby than that of a rookie?


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## Radium (Jun 10, 2015)

I love that video. She's such a bad b****.


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## cold blood (Jun 10, 2015)

rockpython said:


> But your missing my question... the bite reports on this site from people who claim to have experience that happen to get bitten, how is that bite less relevant to the people who seek to ban our hobby than that of a rookie?


its not, its just far less likely...you don't see that as important or relevant?

Most newbies that get tagged NEVER do a bite report.

Reactions: Like 3


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## awiec (Jun 10, 2015)

Radium said:


> cold blood said:
> 
> 
> > Radium said:
> ...

Reactions: Like 2


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## Radium (Jun 10, 2015)

cold blood said:


> That's the thing radium, when we buy 3-10 slings at a time, its with the intent of moving some of them at some point.    Mailing t's is ridiculously safe...not that things can't go wrong, they can....but its rare and if packed well, they can last an amazing amount of time.   There's been many stories about slings being lost in the mail for weeks at a time, only to be alive and well when it finally arrives.
> 
> 
> If you were gonna be that paranoid about shipping, you wouldn't be ordering them and having them shipped, right?
> ...


I'm not crazy about having them shipped to me, but I do trust that the sellers (both of whom have great feedback here) know what they're doing (more than I would if I tried to do the same, certainly). My other options were to find local breeders/enthusiasts (dodgy) or wait for the area's lone reptile con to come around again in November (really stupidly long drive because I live at the ass-end of the local civilization).

If it came down to it, I'd definitely be willing to ship a tarantula if it was for his or her own good...just kinda hoping it doesn't come to that. Although any MMs I get will definitely go out for breeding loans, since everyone deserves to get laid at least once.


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## rockpython (Jun 10, 2015)

So, someone never letting on that they got bit is somehow more significant than someone who details every aspect of it. I miss your logic


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## lalberts9310 (Jun 10, 2015)

Radium said:


> Oh man, I'm going to lose a lot less sleep over the rehousing issue now. That was the only thing really making me nervous, and while I'm still going to be exquisitely careful, I feel a lot safer about the bag method than I do any of the others I've read. Thank you so much!


Remember when rehousing, stay calm, if you worry or get panicky, chances are things will go wrong, just stay calm, move deliberately, and be patient, and don't let your guard down

Reactions: Like 2


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## cold blood (Jun 10, 2015)

rockpython said:


> I miss your logic



Heyhey, we agree on this....I fail to see you logic as well.


When a newb gets tagged, just because they don't write a report, doesn't mean it happens in a vacuum.   They tell friends/family, maybe co-workers, especially if they miss works as a result....if they seek medical treatment, the docs and nurses not have the knowledge of the incident.

A bite is a bite, regardless....putting a t that's more than willing to bite, has lightning fast speed and difficult to predict behavior patterns that's carrying medically significant venom in the hands of someone without experience greatly increases the odds of something bad occurring....logic dictates that these t's be in the hands of experienced people.

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## lalberts9310 (Jun 10, 2015)

rockpython said:


> So, someone never letting on that they got bit is somehow more significant than someone who details every aspect of it. I miss your logic


 it's not so much about the owner getting bitten, it's about someone else besides the owner getting bitten, due to an escaped T. Experienced hobbyists will have better success dealing with a flighty T than a newcomer will, why escapes are of a higher risk with a newb than a experienced hobbyist. Imagine a situation where a child/toddler or elder got bit by someone else's potent OW that escaped, it would make frontpage headlines.. that's the ammunition they seek. And with adrenaline junkies seeking a rush, combine that with potent OW Ts, that's very much possible.

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## awiec (Jun 10, 2015)

rockpython said:


> So, someone never letting on that they got bit is somehow more significant than someone who details every aspect of it. I miss your logic


This is something we have to take each other's word on, we have no idea if anyone is lying about not being bit or even being bitten. Unless I'm willing to give more evidence you all have to take my word that I'm a women who keeps spiders. I could be making it all up or I could be totally honest, that is the nature of online communication.

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## Radium (Jun 10, 2015)

lalberts9310 said:


> Remember when rehousing, stay calm, if you worry or get panicky, chances are things will go wrong, just stay calm, move deliberately, and be patient, and don't let your guard down


I figure that they, like many other predatory animals, can sense fear and intention. I'm thinking you need a sort of "play it off cool but stay sharply focused" mentality.

Also, I'm glad I live alone currently, because my ex was totally the kind of person to grab a bag out of your hands, yell "What's in the bag?", and open it.


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## RomanBuck (Jun 10, 2015)

I remember when I made the mistake of asking something on here . If you are comfortable with teleporting spiders, high venom, beauty, then you're good! My first tarantula was an OBT. All I asked was if I should keep slings on moist substrate or not. Just stay confident and cautious. Don't get too confident though as that's when silly mistakes happen.

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## lalberts9310 (Jun 10, 2015)

Radium said:


> I figure that they, like many other predatory animals, can sense fear and intention. I'm thinking you need a sort of "play it off cool but stay sharply focused" mentality.
> 
> Also, I'm glad I live alone currently, because my ex was totally the kind of person to grab a bag out of your hands, yell "What's in the bag?", and open it.


I don't think they can sense fear, I do think they can sense that you're there however, they are more afraid of you than you are of them why it's important to be calm, deliberate and patient.. if you keep calm you'll have a better reaction and better respond if something happens to go wrong other than someone who panics

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## rockpython (Jun 10, 2015)

lalberts9310 said:


> it's not so much about the owner getting bitten, it's about someone else besides the owner getting bitten, due to an escaped T. Experienced hobbyists will have better success dealing with a flighty T than a newcomer will, why escapes are of a higher risk with a newb than a experienced hobbyist. Imagine a situation where a child/toddler or elder got bit by someone else's potent OW that escaped, it would make frontpage headlines.. that's the ammunition they seek. And with adrenaline junkies seeking a rush, combine that with potent OW Ts, that's very much possible.


More than 350,000 annual dog attacks. Dogs are in no danger even though they are 100% more deadly than a tarantula. Play the odds as you will, the few noob bites that do get "found out" are nothing to the bite reports of veteran keepers here on this site. Why keep posting all your adverse effects so that politicians can read them? Really I understand why, but if bites were what made the most damaging information it should not be kept online.


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## scott99 (Jun 10, 2015)

TownesVanZandt said:


> Of course not. I do however trust that people, who knows the risks involved will take the necessary precautions to prevent their Ts from escaping and potentially hurt the general public or other peoples pets by simply doing all rehousing in a room with no possibility of the T leaving it.


I don't mean to be blunt, get off this forum before you mislead a noob.


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## awiec (Jun 10, 2015)

Radium said:


> I figure that they, like many other predatory animals, can sense fear and intention. I'm thinking you need a sort of "play it off cool but stay sharply focused" mentality.
> 
> Also, I'm glad I live alone currently, because my ex was totally the kind of person to grab a bag out of your hands, yell "What's in the bag?", and open it.


No they can't. They are extremely primitive animals that have been on this planet for over 300 million years. They don't know that all you want to do is refill their water dish or just feed them; all they know is that you are there and they don't want you to be there. No matter how long you'll have them they are always going to think you're going to eat them and anything can set them off. 

Yes slow and calm movements are good to not scare them too much but you still can't predict what they are going to do. What makes a beginner and experienced person different is how they are able to handle a situation when something goes wrong the 1% of the time it happens. Here is a little example to explain what I'm talking about. A year ago I was driving down the road and a girl decided to zoom out of McDonalds and to turn left without looking...well I happen to be driving past said McDonalds. I got hit and while cursing like a sailor managed to not careen into the other lane (which had numerous cars in it) and pull safely into a gas station while I called the cops. If that were to have happened a few years prior I might have froze up and hit other cars instead of doing evasive maneuvers and I only gained that ability due to experience and developing my reflexes. Of course it's easy to know "Yeah if you get hit don't hit other cars and get somewhere safe" but when it actually happens you are relying on pure muscle memory and split second decisions and that doesn't happen over night. 

I hope you don't feel like you're getting lectured, just trying to illustrate my points.

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## DVMT (Jun 10, 2015)

I have T. gigas slings that run out on me all the time.  I am very experienced with this.  I CAN NOT imagine how a newb is going to react when that sling bolts out and gets lost.  You were warned OP.  When you are ripping your house apart looking for it (if you don't accidentally smash it trying to catch it) you will look back and think "Yeah, they were right"

These things give ZERO notice as to when they are going to bolt.  They don't use turn signals and they ALWAYS have the right of way.  As this is a sling, I'm more concerned for the spider right now, but if it escapes and can somehow thrive in your home, you will eventually have a nasty venom super fast beast on your hands that you can't find.

Newbs and OW's don't mix.  But some are going to do whatever they want instead of heeding the advice of experienced keepers.

---------- Post added 06-10-2015 at 05:03 PM ----------




RomanBuck said:


> I remember when I made the mistake of asking something on here . If you are comfortable with teleporting spiders, high venom, beauty, then you're good! My first tarantula was an OBT. All I asked was if I should keep slings on moist substrate or not. Just stay confident and cautious. Don't get too confident though as that's when silly mistakes happen.


The mistake is a newb getting an OW in the first place.  That's really the only one you have to make.  Once the enclosure is open, it will do whatever it wants.....count on it.

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## lalberts9310 (Jun 10, 2015)

rockpython said:


> More than 350,000 annual dog attacks. Dogs are in no danger even though they are 100% more deadly than a tarantula. Play the odds as you will, the few noob bites that do get "found out" are nothing to the bite reports of veteran keepers here on this site. Why keep posting all your adverse effects so that politicians can read them? Really I understand why, but if bites were what made the most damaging information it should not be kept online.


 I guess you haven't seen the bans on pitbulls then...

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## TownesVanZandt (Jun 10, 2015)

scott99 said:


> I don't mean to be blunt, get off this forum before you mislead a noob.


Are you actually asking me to leave a forum for discussion because I have an opinion that differs from yours?!?!


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## RomanBuck (Jun 10, 2015)

DamonVikki said:


> I have T. gigas slings that run out on me all the time.  I am very experienced with this.  I CAN NOT imagine how a newb is going to react when that sling bolts out and gets lost.  You were warned OP.  When you are ripping your house apart looking for it (if you don't accidentally smash it trying to catch it) you will look back and think "Yeah, they were right"
> 
> These things give ZERO notice as to when they are going to bolt.  They don't use turn signals and they ALWAYS have the right of way.  As this is a sling, I'm more concerned for the spider right now, but if it escapes and can somehow thrive in your home, you will eventually have a nasty venom super fast beast on your hands that you can't find.
> 
> ...


 funny how I now have 3 OBT slings, 3 rosea slings, 1 purple tree spider (can't remember scientific name), 1 3.5inch H. mac, and finally 1 3.5-4 inch OBT. Never had a problem with any of them. I'm actually looking to get a couple poeci species. Let them learn from their mistakes.

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## DVMT (Jun 10, 2015)

RomanBuck said:


> funny how I now have 3 OBT slings, 3 rosea slings, 1 purple tree spider (can't remember scientific name), 1 3.5inch H. mac, and finally 1 3.5-4 inch OBT. Never had a problem with any of them. I'm actually looking to get a couple poeci species. Let them learn from their mistakes.


YOU may have had good luck, this isn't good advice. Tapinauchenius violaceus is probably what you have....by the way.  And no offense, but if you don't even know the names of your few T's, then maybe offering advice to newbs isn't your calling

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## rockpython (Jun 10, 2015)

lalberts9310 said:


> I guess you haven't seen the bans on pitbulls then...


Sure I have. But it's not a "blanket ban" as someone put it. (BTW there are more shih tzu bites annually than pit bites)


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## lalberts9310 (Jun 10, 2015)

RomanBuck said:


> funny how I now have 3 OBT slings, 3 rosea slings, 1 purple tree spider (can't remember scientific name), 1 3.5inch H. mac, and finally 1 3.5-4 inch OBT. Never had a problem with any of them. I'm actually looking to get a couple poeci species. Let them learn from their mistakes.


 the only ones making mistakes are adrenaline junkies seeking a rush, getting OWs to show of their "masculinity"

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## Radium (Jun 10, 2015)

awiec said:


> No they can't. They are extremely primitive animals that have been on this planet for over 300 million years. They don't know that all you want to do is refill their water dish or just feed them; all they know is that you are there and they don't want you to be there. No matter how long you'll have them they are always going to think you're going to eat them and anything can set them off.
> 
> Yes slow and calm movements are good to not scare them too much but you still can't predict what they are going to do. What makes a beginner and experienced person different is how they are able to handle a situation when something goes wrong the 1% of the time it happens. Here is a little example to explain what I'm talking about. A year ago I was driving down the road and a girl decided to zoom out of McDonalds and to turn left without looking...well I happen to be driving past said McDonalds. I got hit and while cursing like a sailor managed to not careen into the other lane (which had numerous cars in it) and pull safely into a gas station while I called the cops. If that were to have happened a few years prior I might have froze up and hit other cars instead of doing evasive maneuvers and I only gained that ability due to experience and developing my reflexes. Of course it's easy to know "Yeah if you get hit don't hit other cars and get somewhere safe" but when it actually happens you are relying on pure muscle memory and split second decisions and that doesn't happen over night.
> 
> I hope you don't feel like you're getting lectured, just trying to illustrate my points.


Nope, I don't feel lectured at all. I'm definitely familiar with the concept of muscle memory and your reflexes improving with time and practice - that's actually what I was hoping for in this situation. I have great reflexes in things like gaming, driving, sports, and rescuing smaller spiders, so I figure I have an above-average chance of being able to deal with an LV as a novice. (Before anyone says it: no, I don't think that makes me better than anyone else, just different. I have lots of bad traits too, like being awkward and a hermit.)

I realize the absolute importance of both not startling the spider unnecessarily and being ready for anything without being on edge. It goes without saying that I won't be doing any handling, at least not deliberately.


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## lalberts9310 (Jun 10, 2015)

rockpython said:


> Sure I have. But it's not a "blanket ban" as someone put it. (BTW there are more shih tzu bites annually than pit bites)


 blanket ban or not, it happens.. it's a possibility, why take that risk? I don't care wich dogs has the most reported bites, all I'm saying is there are a known ban on pitts in a few countries especially after you stated that they are in no danger.. not even the dog with the most reported attacks but gets banned, see? It happens

And comparing dogs with tarantulas? The public loves dogs, they hate spiders.. see the difference there?

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## BobGrill (Jun 10, 2015)

RomanBuck said:


> I remember when I made the mistake of asking something on here . If you are comfortable with teleporting spiders, high venom, beauty, then you're good! My first tarantula was an OBT. All I asked was if I should keep slings on moist substrate or not. Just stay confident and cautious. Don't get too confident though as that's when silly mistakes happen.


Your posts make for good unintentional laughs I'll give you that. Not as good as the guy who claimed to have a 10 inch E.murinus though.  That was comedy gold.

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk

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## RomanBuck (Jun 10, 2015)

So you're telling me that because I can't remember how to spell the scientific name (and rather give the common name) I shouldn't own a tarantula? Just because one doesn't have experience with an animal they shouldn't have it? If that were true, this hobby wouldn't exist. Please step off your high horse and change your diaper.


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## TownesVanZandt (Jun 10, 2015)

DamonVikki said:


> The mistake is a newb getting an OW in the first place.  That's really the only one you have to make.  Once the enclosure is open, it will do whatever it wants.....count on it.


A lot of people, myself included, did in fact start with OW species without any problems. I think you are exaggerating how big of a difference it is to keep NW and OW.

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## rockpython (Jun 10, 2015)

lalberts9310 said:


> blanket ban or not, it happens.. it's a possibility, why take that risk?
> 
> And comparing dogs with tarantulas? The public loves dogs, they hate spiders.. see the difference there?


So stop keeping pits then? Guns kill people, stop owning them? Cars kill people, stop driving them? I see the obvious difference between spider and dog, but the point remains the same.


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## lalberts9310 (Jun 10, 2015)

RomanBuck said:


> So you're telling me that because I can't remember how to spell the scientific name (and rather give the common name) I shouldn't own a tarantula? Just because one doesn't have experience with an animal they shouldn't have it? If that were true, this hobby wouldn't exist. Please step off your high horse and change your diaper.


 he said you shouldn't give advice to newbs.. nowhere did he say you shouldn't own any tarantulas..

---------- Post added 06-10-2015 at 11:22 PM ----------




rockpython said:


> So stop keeping pits then? Guns kill people, stop owning them? Cars kill people, stop driving them? I see the obvious difference between spider and dog, but the point remains the same.


 you are really missing the point here, since pittbulls have a bad reputation for being aggressive, now attacks happen, they get reported, public grows scared, pitts gets banned.. who says it can't happen to tarantulas..

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## RomanBuck (Jun 10, 2015)

Ok then just because I don't remember how to spell a scientific name means I can't give advice? This forum confuses me everyday.

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## lalberts9310 (Jun 10, 2015)

TownesVanZandt said:


> A lot of people, myself included, did in fact start with OW species without any problems. I think you are exaggerating how big of a difference it is to keep NW and OW.


 and yet, there are a lot of people starting with OWs ending up with a world of problems...

---------- Post added 06-10-2015 at 11:24 PM ----------




RomanBuck said:


> Ok then just because I don't remember how to spell a scientific name means I can't give advice? This forum confuses me everyday.


 I just corrected you on it, I didn't say anything....


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## DVMT (Jun 10, 2015)

RomanBuck said:


> So you're telling me that because I can't remember how to spell the scientific name (and rather give the common name) I shouldn't own a tarantula? Just because one doesn't have experience with an animal they shouldn't have it? If that were true, this hobby wouldn't exist. Please step off your high horse and change your diaper.


Wow.....your post is so riddled with insecurity it's mind numbing.  I never stated you shouldn't own a tarantula.  Also, had nothing to do with the spelling of the genus and species, I misspell all the time.  And telling me to get off my high horse and change my diaper?  Excuse me, Mr. 6 month expert?  But weren't you on here just a few months ago asking questions I've long had the answers to?  No one is on a high horse here.....simply trying to prevent uninformed newbs from giving bad advice to other newbs.

You said you couldn't remember the scientific name, not that you couldn't spell it.  We get it, spelling some of these is hard at first and it's a huge indicator of your inexperience.

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## RomanBuck (Jun 10, 2015)

Sorry if I sound like I am scolding you. I'm not. Just getting a little upset that these people such as "BobGrill" need to be rude and say that me trying to help out is hilarious.

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## rockpython (Jun 10, 2015)

lalberts9310 said:


> he said you shouldn't give advice to newbs.. nowhere did he say you shouldn't own any tarantulas..
> 
> ---------- Post added 06-10-2015 at 11:22 PM ----------
> 
> you are really missing the point here, since pittbulls have a bad reputation for being aggressive, now attacks happen, they get reported, public grows scared, pitts gets banned.. who says it can't happen to tarantulas..


I get what you're saying. So should we continue to post bite reports?


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## lalberts9310 (Jun 10, 2015)

rockpython said:


> I get what you're saying. So should we continue to post bite reports?


 like I said, it's not so much about the owner getting bitten, it's about if someone else BESIDES the owner gets tagged, that's where the problem lies....

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## TownesVanZandt (Jun 10, 2015)

lalberts9310 said:


> and yet, there are a lot of people starting with OWs ending up with a world of problems..


Of course. And yet, it is people who get a G. rosea who gives them a world of problems. My point is that how to keep tarantulas is not something that is written in stone once and for all. Peoples experiences differs and what works for some simply does not work for others.


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## RomanBuck (Jun 10, 2015)

Let's just say this. My tarantulas are happy and healthy. I haven't gotten bit yet BUT I'm not saying it's not going to happen. Just because you think your better than everyone else in this awesome hobby doesn't mean you are.

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## DVMT (Jun 10, 2015)

lalberts9310 said:


> like I said, it's not so much about the owner getting bitten, it's about if someone else BESIDES the owner gets tagged, that's where the problem lies....


Yes, exactly, like a child that might need to be rushed to the hospital.  The child doesn't deserve it and we don't need the bad press.  It's about more than just the keeper and the T.

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## lalberts9310 (Jun 10, 2015)

TownesVanZandt said:


> Of course. And yet, it is people who get a G. rosea who gives them a world of problems. My point is that how to keep tarantulas is not something that is written in stone once and for all. Peoples experiences differs and what works for some simply does not work for others.


 true, true, but majority of the time OWs and newbs plain and simple doesn't mix.. I have encountered many people getting OWs way before their experience level allows and they end up neglecting the animals or it gets given away, or they get tagged or the T escapes and is never to be found again.. and no, not g rosea.. I'm talking about OWs

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## TownesVanZandt (Jun 10, 2015)

RomanBuck said:


> Sorry if I sound like I am scolding you. I'm not. Just getting a little upset that these people such as "BobGrill" need to be rude and say that me trying to help out is hilarious.


scott99 just told me to bugger off this forum. I think some people need to take a breath and accept that different people holds different views.


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## DVMT (Jun 10, 2015)

Look guys, we aren't trying to stop anyone from owning tarantulas.  Actually, we all promote it in the highest regards.  What we are trying to prevent is the misconception that inexperienced keepers should own OW tarantulas.  They simply aren't ready.  Did you turn 5 and skip directly to Senior year?  No, you had to get there one grade at a time....like everyone should.

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## lalberts9310 (Jun 10, 2015)

RomanBuck said:


> Let's just say this. My tarantulas are happy and healthy. I haven't gotten bit yet BUT I'm not saying it's not going to happen. Just because you think your better than everyone else in this awesome hobby doesn't mean you are.


 nobody here think that they are superior, the experienced members here gives advice, so that newcomers can enjoy Ts like they did, without bans.. I started with a P. Irminia and admit that it was a bad desicion, for more than a year I had psalmopoeus species only before getting my first pokie, I'm glad I took my time, but I also regret on some of the NW Ts such as gbb I missed out on.. that's the point you seem to miss, the members here are trying to help and give good, valid, proper advice to newcomers, along with it helping the hobby to keep going.. no one is trying to be superior.. when I got scolded way back then, I didn't think anyone was trying to be superior, although some came across rude, I took the advice and criticism.. the members here take the hobby and Ts seriously, and won't contribute to it all being washed down the drain just because some people couldn't handle criticism and listen to advice...


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## RomanBuck (Jun 10, 2015)

I definitely took a deep breath. I understand that people have different views but why say stuff to a person that already bought the tarantula that would make the person nervous? I think if people gave an honest opinion in more of an encouraging way, there might be less worry about escapees and bites. Just my thought.


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## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (Jun 10, 2015)

Radium said:


> I've loved spiders my whole life, and been fascinated by Ts for years, but never really had a good opportunity to do the deed before now. I'm waiting on my first two Ts, _A. geroldi_ and _L. violaceopes_ slings, in the mail. I know _L. violaceopes_ is a classic example of what not to get as a beginner, but it's a carefully-considered bad decision, and I have a new home lined up if it turns out I really can't handle it. The first thing I bought was a pair of really long forceps.
> 
> Extremely excited!


 Did you let the seller know you were new to the tarantula hobby? Or did the seller ask if you were new of dealing with tarantulas specially OW tarantulas?

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## awiec (Jun 10, 2015)

Radium said:


> Nope, I don't feel lectured at all. I'm definitely familiar with the concept of muscle memory and your reflexes improving with time and practice - that's actually what I was hoping for in this situation. I have great reflexes in things like gaming, driving, sports, and rescuing smaller spiders, so I figure I have an above-average chance of being able to deal with an LV as a novice. (Before anyone says it: no, I don't think that makes me better than anyone else, just different. I have lots of bad traits too, like being awkward and a hermit.)
> 
> I realize the absolute importance of both not startling the spider unnecessarily and being ready for anything without being on edge. It goes without saying that I won't be doing any handling, at least not deliberately.


As much as I wish gaming reflexes translated to animal keeping ,it doesn't, or else I'd have cobras by now.

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## lalberts9310 (Jun 10, 2015)

RomanBuck said:


> I definitely took a deep breath. I understand that people have different views but why say stuff to a person that already bought the tarantula that would make the person nervous? I think if people gave an honest opinion in more of an encouraging way, there might be less worry about escapees and bites. Just my thought.


Rather tell the person what they let themselves in to before letting them think an OW will act more or less the same as a brachy.. ya know? Easier to let your guard down if you don't know what you're in for

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## DVMT (Jun 10, 2015)

awiec said:


> As much as I wish gaming reflexes translated to animal keeping ,it doesn't, or else I'd have cobras by now.


I would only own rose hairs ;P

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## RomanBuck (Jun 10, 2015)

lalberts9310 said:


> Rather tell the person what they let themselves in to before letting them think an OW will act more or less the same than a brachy.. ya know? Easier to let your guard down if you don't know what you're in for


completely understand. When I posted my thread asking if I should keep OBT slings on moist sub or not, I felt as though I was getting bullied because I wanted to have a pretty spider. Plus I had all of the support and understanding I could ever ask for. I think if they have the places to buy the spider, they *SHOULD* read up on what they are getting. It's a standard for me getting anything. Even roaches


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## cold blood (Jun 10, 2015)

TownesVanZandt said:


> Of course. And yet, it is people who get a G. rosea who gives them a world of problems. My point is that how to keep tarantulas is not something that is written in stone once and for all. Peoples experiences differs and what works for some simply does not work for others.


Lol, the "world of problems" that arises with rosea are exceptionally benign....almost zero actual threat to bite or escape, even with the lid left off.   An OW "problem" and a rosea "problem are on different levels altogether.  

Its, my t hasn't eaten on a month, vs. my t is up on the wall (or in a drain...lol), how do I get it back, every time I get close it bolts or tries to bite.

Or my rosea tagged me, ouch, what was I thinking vs. I got tagged, my breathing is now labored and the pain at the point of contact is and has been excruciating...the area is swelling and now my muscles are locking up uncontrollably, should I go to the ER.

Rosea or other good beginner sp. act up, even a newb can gather it and remedy that situation without much of an issue....which is why they are beginner species.

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## TownesVanZandt (Jun 10, 2015)

cold blood said:


> Lol, the "world of problems" that arises with rosea are exceptionally benign....almost zero actual threat to bite or escape, even with the lid left off.   An OW "problem" and a rosea "problem are on different levels altogether.
> 
> Its, my t hasn't eaten on a month, vs. my t is up on the wall (or in a drain...lol), how do I get it back, every time I get close it bolts or tries to bite.
> 
> ...


Or, if you have a <edit>storm of bad luck: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/wildlife/6918326/Tarantula-nearly-blinds-owner.html

This is so unlikely as it can be, but this guy still had problems four years after the event, so a rosea has, at least on this occasion, given more long lasting trouble than any OW bite.

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## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (Jun 10, 2015)

cold blood said:


> Lol, the "world of problems" that arises with rosea are exceptionally benign....almost zero actual threat to bite or escape, even with the lid left off.   An OW "problem" and a rosea "problem are on different levels altogether.
> 
> Its, my t hasn't eaten on a month, vs. my t is up on the wall (or in a drain...lol), how do I get it back, every time I get close it bolts or tries to bite.
> 
> ...


 Ouch ER awful reminder. 

Last bite from an OW: Poecilotheria ornata,
When: Three years ago.
Reaction from bite: One hour after the bite occur, went straight to the ER. 
The next day after the bite: Almost passed out while driving/transporting one of my patients from work. To much pain for a month. 

OW tarantulas are great love them, but at this point my kids are a bit more important by not having this fascinating creatures in my house for now.

And I'm not a newb. I hate to admit my carelessness but it did happen. Lesson learn!

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## cold blood (Jun 10, 2015)

I think that qualifies as general stupidity combined with a certain degree of bad luck...a oop:storm of it as you put it...as they even stated "the problem is that this case is so rare there is not much in the way of medical literature for us to study..."

That's a ridiculously rare occurrence indeed.


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## lalberts9310 (Jun 10, 2015)

TownesVanZandt said:


> Or, if you have a shitstorm of bad luck: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/wildlife/6918326/Tarantula-nearly-blinds-owner.html
> 
> This is so unlikely as it can be, but this guy still had problems four years after the event, so a rosea has, at least on this occasion, given more long lasting trouble than any OW bite.


The public will consider OW venom life threatening, I have seen an article on the british daily mail of a "deadly" heteroscodra maculata.. yeah

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...tarantula-security-staff-passing-scanner.html

The misinformed public (who hates spiders) would think that a tarantula can and will kill you, especially if articles like the above is posted, urticating bristles can cause problems but wouldn't be considered life threatening - why it is of irrelevance..


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## SpiderInTheBath (Jun 10, 2015)

To be fair, the Daily Mail think immigration is deadly.

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## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (Jun 10, 2015)

lalberts9310 said:


> The public will consider OW venom life threatening, I have seen an article on the british daily mail of a "deadly" heteroscodra maculata.. yeah
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...tarantula-security-staff-passing-scanner.html


  If it can kill you I must be a dead man. Where do this folks get this  bad information about tarantulas? Yes, some tarantulas are higher toxic poison but not enough to kill you.

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## lalberts9310 (Jun 10, 2015)

jose said:


> If it can kill you I must be a dead man. Where do this folks get this  bad information about tarantulas? Yes, some tarantulas are higher toxic poison but not enough to kill you.


Why OWs shouldn't be onwed by the inexperienced, if bad things happens, that is what you get, false information...

---------- Post added 06-11-2015 at 12:30 AM ----------




SpiderInTheBath said:


> To be fair, the Daily Mail think immigration is deadly.


 yes, but remember who reads it, the misinformed public, what they read, they believe....


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## DVMT (Jun 10, 2015)

jose said:


> Where do this folks get this  bad information about tarantulas?


From newbs who think they know it all!!!!!!

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## SpiderInTheBath (Jun 10, 2015)

lalberts9310 said:


> Why OWs shouldn't be onwed by the inexperienced, if bad things happens, that is what you get, false information...
> 
> ---------- Post added 06-11-2015 at 12:30 AM ----------
> 
> yes, but remember who reads it, the misinformed public, what they read, they believe....


It's fairly widely disparaged these days, but I was just cracking wise -- not disagreeing with the sentiment.

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## Chris LXXIX (Jun 10, 2015)

cold blood said:


> Lol, the "world of problems" that arises with rosea are exceptionally benign....almost zero actual threat to bite or escape, even with the lid left off.   An OW "problem" and a rosea "problem are on different levels altogether.
> 
> Its, my t hasn't eaten on a month, vs. my t is up on the wall (or in a drain...lol), how do I get it back, every time I get close it bolts or tries to bite.
> 
> ...


I agree cold blood. But can i ask you people why _Grammostola rosea_ and _Grammostola_ spp. in general, are always considered good starter _Theraphosidae_ when they can be moody as hell?
I have a "chaco" who is completely moody. Same for even 2 cm sling of _Grammostola rosea_.. so imo the best starter _Theraphosidae_ is _Chromatopelma cyaneopubescens_, speedy, that's true.. but i NEVER had an hair kicking or a threat display from those coloured lovely.
And i owned a lot. There isn't a "psycho GBB" from what i know, unlike "rose hairs".
If people who move the first step into _Theraphosidae_ amazing world would choose a GBB as first instead of OBT'S or OW in general, that would be a victory imo.


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## TownesVanZandt (Jun 10, 2015)

I think that partly boils down to price and availability, really. Here every single pet shop has some G.porteri or rosea for sale. In addition a lot of people also wants to handle their Ts and GBB aren´t great for that.


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## cold blood (Jun 10, 2015)

While rosea are considered "beginner", their moodiness and incessant fasting keep them at the back of that pack.   But their still in that category because they are slow, most are reluctant to bite, even if they posture, you'd almost have to make a big error in judgment to actually get bit.    But my experiences with the rest of the genus are different....while there are exceptions to every rule, pulchra are notoriously calm and so are most pulchripes.....mine was exceedingly food aggressive, but as long as he realized you weren't food, he was quite manageable.  And they're NW, obviously, so they don't pack any sort of punch.  

Their availability is basically what makes them as popular as they are as many newbies are frightened away from mail order..

Simply because of the speed and skittish nature I refer to the GBB as a great 2nd or 3rd....but still not a bad choice for a first certainly.

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## Chris LXXIX (Jun 10, 2015)

TownesVanZandt said:


> I think that partly boils down to price and availability, really. Here every single pet shop has some G.porteri or rosea for sale. In addition a lot of people also wants to handle their Ts and GBB aren´t great for that.


I agree that their price can be high. In all honesty i personally hate those who handle T's, no matter if they are "expert" keepers. Mass of selfish, voyeuristic stupid idiots, who damage the hobby.

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## TownesVanZandt (Jun 10, 2015)

Chris LXXIX said:


> I agree that their price can be high. In all honesty i personally hate those who handle T's, no matter if they are "expert" keepers. Mass of selfish, voyeuristic stupid idiots, who damage the hobby.


I never handle any of my Ts, but I have the impression that most people who walks into a pet shop and ends up buying a T instead of a hamster or a guinea pig do want to handle them.


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## Chris LXXIX (Jun 10, 2015)

cold blood said:


> Simply because of the speed and skittish nature I refer to the GBB as a great 2nd or 3rd....but still not a bad choice for a first certain
> ly.


I know that depends specimen by specimen but really, i swear, i never had a problem with them. Skittish means, for me, when talking about GBB, that they will bolt into their hide/safe place when you open the lid.
Of course since i love, like the rest of you, to give to all my T's everything they need to be comfortable (such fake plants for anchor web, hide etc) maybe this had help, but... i have to talk about my personal experience. I have no valid reasons for don't advice them as a first T.

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rockpython said:


> So stop keeping pits then? Guns kill people, stop owning them? Cars kill people, stop driving them? I see the obvious difference between spider and dog, but the point remains the same.


You have to understand that guns, dogs (don't count cars, they are part of our modern life, good or bad no matter) move a lot of cash. _Theraphosidae_ ah ah, not.
In the globalized capitalist world, if you can't produce cash, you are nothing, zero. Thus no one will advocate your cause.

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## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (Jun 10, 2015)

Just because a Chocolate Lab, Black Lab, Golden Lab etc. are great family dogs it does not mean that it won't bite you.
 Grammostola spp. In general are good beginners their bite is nothing, absolutely nothing compare to OW tarantulas. Why on earth would you or anyone want to take a straight dive into the fire pit? Specially when you know the danger of the outcome. Smooth your way into the fire pit easily..........OW tarantulas will be here next year and the year after. What's the hurry?

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## Chris LXXIX (Jun 10, 2015)

Poec54 said:


> Yes.  Many have been banned already.  Tarantulas cannot be owned in Italy; non-native tarantulas aren't allowed into Australia. Some cities in Germany have banned Poecilotheria.  The state of Florida banned the ownership of Avic avic and P cancerides for 10 years, and they've banned many scorpions (possibly centipedes).  Florida's also effectively ended the venomous snake hobby by requiring 1,000 hours training before issuing a venomous permit; it's almost impossible to get that many hours of training.  Who's going to spend that much time teaching you, and they're open for a lawsuit if you get bit by one of their snakes.  Not worth it to train someone.
> 
> There's vocal anti-exotic pet groups in the US, politicians looking for a 'cause' to rally voters, & a public that fears these animals...combine that with show offs and beginners who get advanced species they lack the skill and experience to work with, and one high profile incident online can end the hobby here in a matter of days.  It's a very real possibility, and we're desperately trying to self-police so that we can keep the hobby going.


Poec speaks the truth. Here:


Testo del decreto-legge coordinato con la legge di conversione

pubblicato nella Gazzetta Ufficiale n. 185 del 11 agosto 2003

(*) Le modifiche apportate dalla legge di conversione sono stampate con caratteri corsivi



Art. 1.

1. Sono da considerare potenzialmente pericolosi per l'incolumita' e la salute pubblica tutti gli esemplari vivi di aracnidi selvatici, ovvero provenienti da riproduzioni in cattivita', che possono arrecare, con la loro azione diretta, effetti mortali o invalidanti per l'uomo o che comunque possono costituire pericolo per l'incolumita' pubblica.

2. E' vietato a chiunque, detenere, commercializzare importare, esportare o riesportare gli esemplari di cui al comma 1, salve le esenzioni previste dal comma 6 dell'articolo 6 della legge 7 febbraio 1992, n. 150, e successive modificazioni. In caso di inosservanza si applica la disciplina sanzionatoria di cui al comma 4 del medesimo articolo 6.

3. A coloro che, alla data di entrata in vigore del presente decreto, detengono esemplari vivi delle specie di cui al comma 1 si applicano le disposizioni di cui ai commi 3 e 5 dell'articolo 6 della legge 7 febbraio 1992, n. 150, e successive modificazioni, fatte salve le esenzioni previste dal comma 6 del medesimo articolo 6. Il termine per la denuncia di cui al suddetto comma 3 all'ufficio territoriale del Governo e' di novanta giorni a decorrere dalla data di entrata in vigore del presente decreto.

You will need to translate from Italian to English but, even for the wrong reasons, could be interesting.


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## Radium (Jun 10, 2015)

jose said:


> Did you let the seller know you were new to the tarantula hobby? Or did the seller ask if you were new of dealing with tarantulas specially OW tarantulas?


Nope. No questions asked. In the seller's defense, I only contacted them to ask that they not include any extra Ts as freebies.

---------- Post added 06-10-2015 at 07:37 PM ----------




TownesVanZandt said:


> Or, if you have a <edit>storm of bad luck: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/wildlife/6918326/Tarantula-nearly-blinds-owner.html
> 
> This is so unlikely as it can be, but this guy still had problems four years after the event, so a rosea has, at least on this occasion, given more long lasting trouble than any OW bite.


Well, that's one of the most offensively misleading headlines ever. It should read "Careless jackapple nearly blinded after not bothering to follow extremely basic tarantula-keeping logic."


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## Poec54 (Jun 10, 2015)

Radium said:


> I figure that they, like many other predatory animals, can sense fear and intention.



They're invertebrates, not dogs.  They have no idea what kind of life form we are; they react on programmed instinct.  Some are very fast and alert, and can easily make us look pretty stupid.

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## shawno821 (Jun 10, 2015)

I think background has a lot to do with choosing a first t,as well.My first t was a full grown P.regalis,but in a household that included mambas and cobras,she wasn't gonna be the thing that killed me. And I certainly wasn't going to the hospital over a bug bite  She was a kind poecie,though,and forgave all my mistakes,she never even bolted on me or tried to bite me,and I didn't give her reason to. I was lucky enough to get her enclosure with her,and looking back on it (20 yrs?) it was a good set up for her.The only advice I got was not to handle her.I was rescuing some hot herps that day,and the game warden was gonna throw her in the freezer if I didn't take her.They were gonna freeze all the hot herps,too,until they got a hold of me and I agreed to take them.In their eyes,T's were no different than the hots and all had to be put down.

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## Roosterbomb (Jun 10, 2015)

How come there's no referrals to previous threads on this one?


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## pyro fiend (Jun 10, 2015)

wow.. i got through page one and my head is so low and shook so much i think i rolled a disk....

iv worked with cobras for years.. i may be almost 22 but i kissed my first cobra about 5 years back.. and even tho its been many years some are way away from being predictable... iv never been bit, think the serpent gods but iv come close..  now yes arachnids and herps are WAY off in comparison.. but coming from a guy who has kissed cobras, and "played" with copperheads and water moccasin... believe me when i say T's can be MUCH quicker.. my first bolt a buddys poec bran up his tongs [18in if im remembering right so prob about 16in of tongs] up his fully exteded arm and up mine which rest on his shoulder and i felt its little pedipalps [af p.met] on opposite side of my neck... all we seen was a blue blur...  i actually just had a p.camb bolt on me too.. only thing i seen was a green fluff. it stoped at my elbow to jump.. then she hit my bed and was gone for a minute and mind you this girls a new world  this girl has never bolted on me but decided to this time... took me about 20 mins to get her -.- so even tho shes been superbly tame all her life [she was 1/4 now over 3"] she decided the opportunity was ripe and took it

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## Tim Benzedrine (Jun 10, 2015)

lalberts9310 said:


> [/COLOR] yes, but remember who reads it, the misinformed public, what they read, they believe....


And we are supposed to believe that?

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## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (Jun 11, 2015)

About a half hour ago my adult female Grammostola grossa bolted on to my hands with her fangs out in the open. All I was doing is changing the water dish, she scared the heck out of me. I have never seen a Grammostola spp. bolt the way the grossa did. 
Tarantulas are unpredictable it does not matter how docile they are, they will react on instinct. It is in their nature.

---------- Post added 06-10-2015 at 10:25 PM ----------




Radium said:


> Nope. No questions asked. In the seller's defense, I only contacted them to ask that they not include any extra Ts as freebies.
> 
> ---------- Post added 06-10-2015 at 07:37 PM ----------
> 
> ...


 I think you should have waited al least a year to get into an OW tarantula, I will never recommend a new tarantula owner to get a fast, defensive, non handleable tarantula for their first pet.
Your seller should have asked you if you are capable to handle an OW tarantula, as well you should have asked those questions to the seller. 
I have done my share of mistakes as well, but in the late 80's we did not have the information that we have now. You should have taken advantage of this before purchasing an OW tarantula.

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## Radium (Jun 11, 2015)

jose said:


> About a half hour ago my adult female Grammostola grossa bolted on to my hands with her fangs out in the open. All I was doing is changing the water dish, she scared the heck out of me. I have never seen a Grammostola spp. bolt the way the grossa did.
> Tarantulas are unpredictable it does not matter how docile they are, they will react on instinct. It is in their nature.
> 
> ---------- Post added 06-10-2015 at 10:25 PM ----------
> ...


Actually, I've been interested in, and studying, _L. violaceopes_, for about 10 years. 

I know that research doesn't replace experience, and it's justifiable if people think I'm an idiot and/or lunatic for choosing an LV despite knowing the difficulties, but I'm not going into it blind by any means. The fact that this keeps popping up in this thread despite my saying that I've done my research makes me think that uneducated impulse purchases must be quite a problem with novices in the hobby.


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## awiec (Jun 11, 2015)

Radium said:


> Actually, I've been interested in, and studying, _L. violaceopes_, for about 10 years.
> 
> I know that research doesn't replace experience, and it's justifiable if people think I'm an idiot and/or lunatic for choosing an LV despite knowing the difficulties, but I'm not going into it blind by any means. The fact that this keeps popping up in this thread despite my saying that I've done my research makes me think that uneducated impulse purchases must be quite a problem with novices in the hobby.


Cause it is, you have no idea how prevalent it is for people to go head first even after "all their research" and get their butts handed to them by a small animal that has its stomach going through its brain. You may not believe it but your 10 years of research is nothing compared to nitty gritty experience, research is passive, it's not active like owning the actual animal.

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## ARACHNO-SMACK48 (Jun 11, 2015)

Radium said:


> Actually, I've been interested in, and studying, _L. violaceopes_, for about 10 years.
> 
> I know that research doesn't replace experience, and it's justifiable if people think I'm an idiot and/or lunatic for choosing an LV despite knowing the difficulties, but I'm not going into it blind by any means. The fact that this keeps popping up in this thread despite my saying that I've done my research makes me think that uneducated impulse purchases must be quite a problem with novices in the hobby.


 Yes this does tend to be a problem in this hobby. Also it doesn't matter how long you've hen researching this sp. you won't be prepared to work with OW's  with no previous T keeping experience.. period. I know it seems like everyone is hammering down on you but we are just being honest. Either way it's your fault if you get tagged and nobody else's. You've been warned. Having said this, welcome to the hobby!

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## Radium (Jun 11, 2015)

awiec said:


> Cause it is, you have no idea how prevalent it is for people to go head first even after "all their research" and get their butts handed to them by a small animal that has its stomach going through its brain. You may not believe it but your 10 years of research is nothing compared to nitty gritty experience, research is passive, it's not active like owning the actual animal.


If you scroll up a little, you'll see that I literally said I realize research doesn't replace experience. I'm merely asking people to make the distinction between "Radium has no idea what she's getting into and impulsively picked an OW arboreal" and "Radium knows what she's getting into and picked an OW arboreal anyway."

---------- Post added 06-11-2015 at 12:22 AM ----------




ARACHNO-SMACK48 said:


> Yes this does tend to be a problem in this hobby. Also it doesn't matter how long you've hen researching this sp. you won't be prepared to work with OW's  with no previous T keeping experience.. period. I know it seems like everyone is hammering down on you but we are just being honest. Either way it's your fault if you get tagged and nobody else's. You've been warned. Having said this, welcome to the hobby!


Like I said, I understand that research doesn't replace experience. I'm merely making the distinction between what seems to be perceived (I picked an OW arboreal without any consideration) and what actually happened (I picked an OW arboreal after a great deal of consideration).

I also stated some pages back that it's my responsibility if I get bitten. That's rhetorical, though, because I can't imagine who else's responsibility it'd be. 

I probably sound annoyed right now, but that's because I need to go to bed. I appreciate the tough love, the welcomes, and especially the advice!


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## awiec (Jun 11, 2015)

Radium said:


> If you scroll up a little, you'll see that I literally said I realize research doesn't replace experience. I'm merely asking people to make the distinction between "Radium has no idea what she's getting into and impulsively picked an OW arboreal" and "Radium knows what she's getting into and picked an OW arboreal anyway."
> 
> ---------- Post added 06-11-2015 at 12:22 AM ----------
> 
> ...


Yes and I'm saying that we see tons of people who research and decide they still want to get an OW and then proceed to be overwhelmed. Maybe you will be fine or maybe you will greatly regret your decision and hopefully can find a good home for it. I hope for the former but the latter has happened to many people, even those who did a lot of reading. Regardless, you have a great resource here and hopefully you can utilize it fully.

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## Radium (Jun 11, 2015)

awiec said:


> Yes and I'm saying that we see tons of people who research and decide they still want to get an OW and then proceed to be overwhelmed. Maybe you will be fine or maybe you will greatly regret your decision and hopefully can find a good home for it. I hope for the former but the latter has happened to many people, even those who did a lot of reading. Regardless, you have a great resource here and hopefully you can utilize it fully.


Oh, absolutely. I know I'm not the only person on Earth who knows how to pick up a book. I just take premise to the notion that I didn't do my research, whether that research is actually meaningful or not.

I'll definitely be asking questions. One reason I joined Arachnoboards is that I think /r/tarantulas might be a little tired of my endless questions. This thread has already filled in a few knowledge gaps for me, actually.


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## awiec (Jun 11, 2015)

Radium said:


> Oh, absolutely. I know I'm not the only person on Earth who knows how to pick up a book. I just take premise to the notion that I didn't do my research, whether that research is actually meaningful or not.
> 
> I'll definitely be asking questions. One reason I joined Arachnoboards is that I think /r/tarantulas might be a little tired of my endless questions. This thread has already filled in a few knowledge gaps for me, actually.


Well people who say you didn't "do your research" are referring to the fact that "smart" people who would have read up on temperaments, venom etc  would have decided that an OW was not the spider to pick for a first T. All I can hope is that your specimen is an angel and that you don't get harmed due to your decision.

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## pyro fiend (Jun 11, 2015)

awiec said:


> Well people who say you didn't "do your research" are referring to the fact that "smart" people who would have read up on temperaments, venom etc  would have decided that an OW was not the spider to pick for a first T. All I can hope is that your specimen is an angel and that you don't get harmed due to your decision.


awiec.. your a fairly smart lady.. yet.. you havent pointed out how the following quote is saying she wants us to choose option A or option A... because they both are right she thinks she knows and yet not working with a ow or any T before its an impulse buy in a way XD maybe just my $0.02?


> I'm merely asking people to make the distinction between "Radium has no idea what she's getting into and impulsively picked an OW arboreal" and "Radium knows what she's getting into and picked an OW arboreal anyway."



op-
either way i dont think your thinking it as through as you think.. those few that youv met that started with poec's and still keep one.. are a small fraction... iv found TONS of people in the herp comunity who got a poec first and are now arachnophobia to some degree...

 saying you read up on some sites doesnt mean your ready imo.. just because i know iv helped with cobras and am stupid enough to throw a mad ~20ft snake over my own shoulders and not give two thoughts about it.. but do i trust anyone with me in control of those animals? HECK NO especially not the owners kids [9-15years of age] who always help with water dishes and food... each animal has their own kinks,  i know when this massive burm is going to strike or coil, does not mean everyone elese notices her kinks, even if you point them out.. her OWNER wont even touch her because he has not cued in on her.but ill just grab her and do what i want like shes a 175lb feather boa.... T's are no different some say they have phormics who raise up.. mine just sits there.. but i know when shes getting annoyed [tho never kicked] i have only had 3 bolts in my household and 2 was as a novice by a sling.. and not even an old world [have none]

but im not trying to bust your balls to hard just dont think you used your best judgment to choose a T. sure the ladder system aint for all.. but neither is jumping in the deepend.. there 4 or 5 who are active on the boards and scared crudless of their T's they did research on... either way im done gl

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## viper69 (Jun 11, 2015)

Even as slings Lv are huge compared to all known Avic slings.

I really don't care of the owner bought a great white shark and swam with it

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## Blue Jaye (Jun 11, 2015)

I must chime in . I started in this hobby with lots of old worlds and all slings . From my experience L .violaceopes  (which I waited to purchase a few years later) is not a good T to start out with in my experience the are extremely defensive and never hesitate to rush you and bite . Once my slings gained some size they gained speed and attitude as well . I have a lot of ow Ts and my violaceopes is by far the ones I really have to pay attention to every move they make . Most of the time just trying to give them a new water dish is a battle . As soon as I go for it so do they and usually end up with a paint brush or tongs that they will also want to keep . They are also extremely strong , one of my girls has straight yanked the tongs from me . And remember the bigger they get the harder they are to deal with . Just thought I would share my experience . While I won't bash your decision I will ask you to rethink keeping it there a lot of blue/ purple Ts to choose from . Please be careful and always pay attention to what you are doing if you keep them . Getting bit is never what you want and depending on your size and allergies it could be severe.

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## cold blood (Jun 11, 2015)

awiec said:


> Cause it is, you have no idea how prevalent it is for people to go head first even after "all their research" and get their butts handed to them by a small animal that has its stomach going through its brain. You may not believe it but your 10 years of research is nothing compared to nitty gritty experience, research is passive, it's not active like owning the actual animal.


Research is great for learning many things about the animal, but how to keep and deal with it, experience is king there and trumps research handily.


I've said it before, I'd trust a person with a year of NW experience, who has done very little research, with an OW arboreal more confidently than a person with no actual experience that has done a decade worth of research. 




Radium said:


> I'm merely asking people to make the distinction between "Radium has no idea what she's getting into and impulsively picked an OW arboreal" and "Radium knows what she's getting into and picked an OW arboreal anyway."


The reason people keep jumping on the experience thing over and over again is because you have consistently stressed the research, even implying in the above quote that you know what you're getting into BECAUSE of all the research....which just isn't the case at all.  Its almost as if I was on a brain surgery forum telling other surgeons that I've been reading on brains and procedures for decades and now I just got a patient that I am going to operate on this week. And when they act shocked that I think research is enough and stress repeatedly that its not....then I keep believing i can do the surgery because of my vast research, despite a total lack of hands on experience.

Now I know keeping an OW is a far cry from brain surgery (and your LV will certainly have a better shot at health than the brain I have lined up this week)....obviously....but the premise that reading and research can in no way alone prepare you for the tasks at hand is basically the same, just on a very different level (as you do have an actual chance of not having problems should you get the right specimen).   

There's literally nothing you can gain from reading or even watching vids that will adequately prepare you for the real deal.   Super-fast growing OW arboreals exacerbate the problems further as they grow sooooo fast, that you gain almost nothing experience wise to help you in the future as it quickly grows.   It will be really easy for several molts, then seemingly all at once, everything can change in jeckle and hyde fashion....at this point the prior mild mannered experience actually can do little more than getting one complacent, or more comfortable than one should too quickly.

Not too long ago there was a guy on here consistently campaigning (loudly) that OBT's were an excellent starter.   Following many months of his highly enthusiastic arguing, we came to realize that the many obt's he had were all basically slings that just hadn't developed their confidence yet....which explained his interpretation of the spider.    His big thing was do your research and get anything...he's now banned, I believe (he had a horribly argumentative attitude).  Almost always when someone tell you that research is enough, it means either newer to the hobby, with less experience, or they are one the very rare persons that did so without significant issue and stick in the hobby (which we've already heard from a few of).

A lot of times people jumping right into the deep end, leaning heavily on "research" tend to get to a point where they realize they are way over their heads and either neglect them as a result, or sell them and bail quickly on the hobby

Basically what I'm saying is that despite all the research and knowledge you've gained on the species, you couldn't possibly know what you're getting yourself into...a vague idea, yes, but don't fool yourself into thinking you actually know what your getting into....if you did, you'd have almost certainly taken it slower.


Hope this helps you see where we are coming from and why we keep stressing over some points repeatedly.:smile:

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## Tim Benzedrine (Jun 11, 2015)

Well...I don't think name calling will help anything. She didn't come here and ask if she should get one and then ignore the advice she was given. Maybe she would have, but we can't say that. And at some point we all make bad decisions. I have and still do, actually.

At least she is taking her lumps with a bit of good grace, which is better than the usual response we have in these kind of threads.
That said, there is no denying that her decision was ill-advised. Apparently that species is a powerhouse, I'm not familiar with them, but when somebody is familiar with a species that is a challenge, I pay attention even though the species isn't on my horizon.  I hope this does not come to a bad end, but the fact of the matter is that is entirely a possibility.

I hope she really considers relinquishing the spider to somebody else the moment she decides it is too much for her. Even better would be if she realizes the possible consequences and takes steps to undo her mistake (despite my belief she shouldn't be slammed quite so hard, I'm with all who say agree she made a mistake. She may never have to pay for it, lets hope she doesn't, but the possibility undeniably exists that she may.)
Remember folks, castigating somebody in a situation can be counter-productive. At least we are able to advise her. Driving her away because we do not like her choice won't solve anything, and might actually make it worse.


How old are you, Radium? Forgive me if that has already been revealed. You may not think that should be relevant to any of us, but it is a pretty important factor. When anybody gets tagged it can cause problems for a hobby, but when somebody underage gets hurt- hoo-boy!

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## ShadowBlade (Jun 11, 2015)

Can't say I'm surprised with the level of intensity this thread has reached. I think people need to understand we can't change people's minds on this. If you set your mind to getting one, you're going to get it. All we can do now is prepare you for the experience as best we can. Screaming through the keyboards will only keep the individual from ever coming back to ask for help or advice.

Really though, its 1" guys, that's honestly the best way to get into OW species in my opinion. Its small, she will have plenty of time to acclimate to tarantula housing, feeding, and maintenance while it grows. You're going to be fine Radium, many owners have started with aggressive and fast species and had no problems. As long as everything you do around the sling is done with hemostats, paintbrushes, and never fingers, there shouldn't be an issue. If your body parts are never around it, it can't bite you.

The one piece of advice I will give is please give yourself plenty of room when learning how to work with little ones like this especially when you unpack for the first time. A very wide open space on a floor without shelves/cracks/piles of laundry for the little guy to run into if he books it. What sometimes happens to people is when you open the vial its shipped in and start peeling back the paper towels it could take off like a bat out of hell and be gone if you don't have time to catch it. There would be nothing worse than having your brand new spider loose underneath the floor molding around your room. Have the vial in his enclosure before you open the lid.. don't open it up in your hand and start picking at the packing around it. Lay it on the ground, and slowly start peeling back the layers with long tweezers. The lid for the enclosure should be able to close in a heartbeat, so have it in position.

Make sure you have a thick heavy book like a children's dictionary on hand and get good at throwing it like a frisbee. That is how you'll get him before he runs under the door...lol But really a nice lightweight big tupperware container (or a big cup like delis put egg salad in) is best to have on hand. That is how you'll stop him if it takes off, not your hand (keep that in mind all the time). Now isn't the best time to learn how to get a spiderling off that ran up the backside of your arm and into your hair. 

In the end, your reaction time and confidence will grow as the spider does. A couple molts might surprise you in size, but you're not getting a fully grown_ P. regalis_ in the mail and being expected to rehouse it :sarcasm:. I'm not saying this was the best path to take, but its certainly not the end of the world. Learn with respect and caution.

-Sean

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## lalberts9310 (Jun 11, 2015)

Tim Benzedrine said:


> And we are supposed to believe that?


 no, what is stated in that article is total <snip>, but if someone else reads it that is not a hobbyist, afraid of spiders and knows nothing about spiders they certainly will believe it, that's how easy an article with bad false information can do damage to the hobby and our spiders


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## TownesVanZandt (Jun 11, 2015)

ARACHNO-SMACK48 said:


> Yes this does tend to be a problem in this hobby. Also it doesn't matter how long you've hen researching this sp. you won't be prepared to work with OW's  with no previous T keeping experience.. period. I know it seems like everyone is hammering down on you but we are just being honest. Either way it's your fault if you get tagged and nobody else's. You've been warned. Having said this, welcome to the hobby!


OWs are generally faster and do have more potent venom, hence a bite will be more painful. Because they lack urticating hairs they will give a threat posture or bite if it feels cornered rather than kicking hairs and run. Apart from that, keeping an OW is not that different from keeping a NW. Research do matter however, because a well housed spider will prefer simply to retreat to its hide or burrow when disturbed rather than attempt bolting or jumping at you. You can definitely reduce the risk of having to deal with an angry spider every time you open the enclosure by giving it the best possible housing.

Apart from that I agree of course that no amount of research can be a substitute for actual experience, but the only way to gain experience about a species is to acquire it. I just don´t see the need to keep a bunch of species that doesn't interest you before getting what you really want.

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## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (Jun 11, 2015)

Radium said:


> Actually, I've been interested in, and studying, _L. violaceopes_, for about 10 years.
> 
> I know that research doesn't replace experience, and it's justifiable if people think I'm an idiot and/or lunatic for choosing an LV despite knowing the difficulties, but I'm not going into it blind by any means. The fact that this keeps popping up in this thread despite my saying that I've done my research makes me think that uneducated impulse purchases must be quite a problem with novices in the hobby.


 Regardless what's done is done. You have your spider coming don't hesitate to ask question even though we have heard it once to many times from other members. 
What ever you do don't get offended by other members defensive questions and answers. We want what's best for the tarantula as well for you.

I know Cold Blood, Blue Jaye, Aweic, Vespers, BobGrill, Lalberts9310, Chris LXXIX, Tim Benzedrine, Poec54, ShadowBlade, Pyro Fiend, Viper69 etc. are here to help. Welcome to the hobby!

---------- Post added 06-11-2015 at 06:01 AM ----------




Chainsaw Reptiles said:


> *Slow Claps* Stoopid Idiot. Another Small Child Wanting A New T And Decide They Want A "Pretty" One And Go Out And Buy A OW WOW Such A Great Starter T...


 Is this necessary? This kind of comments is how we get this type of threads closed by the moderators? How old are you? 

As far as I'm concern Radium at least did some research, I give Radium high five for doing this research. Other members would buy a tarantula without knowing one thing about them. Oh gee! Who does that reminds me of? A guy name Jose who purchased his first tarantula back in the late 80's. I didn't even ask one single question. Boy I hate to be truthful sometimes. 
We now have tons of information on the web, Arachnoboards, books etc. we did not have this back in the late 80's. Even though this information is now available still my choice would be a docile tarantula to begin with, and than work your way up. You may not even want another tarantula after the first one. An OW tarantula is bit to quick to start off with..........

Radium don't answer to this member.

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## vespers (Jun 11, 2015)

jose said:


> It's this necessary? This kind of comments is how we get this type of threads closed by the moderators? How old are you?


Chainsaw Reptiles is a young teenager, IIRC from past posts. And an immature one at that. I ignore him at this point, after reading enough of his  oop: stories and contradictions.

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## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (Jun 11, 2015)

vespers said:


> Chainsaw Reptiles is a young teenager, IIRC from past posts. And an immature one at that. I ignore him at this point, after reading enough of his  oop: stories and contradictions.


 That explains his behavior to this thread.

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## Arachnomaniac19 (Jun 11, 2015)

vespers said:


> Chainsaw Reptiles is a young teenager, IIRC from past posts. And an immature one at that. I ignore him at this point, after reading enough of his  oop: stories and contradictions.


Well when people get more information I'm sure what they say will also change. I'm not defending him in the least, but I do think that some more information would be nice.


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## BobGrill (Jun 11, 2015)

Arachnomaniac19 said:


> Well when people get more information I'm sure what they say will also change. I'm not defending him in the least, but I do think that some more information would be nice.


I've seen comments from him on YouTube on some of Jon3800's videos giving more false information out to people unfamiliar with tarantulas.  He claims to have an Ephebopus murinus with a 10 inch legspan.

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk

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## TownesVanZandt (Jun 11, 2015)

BobGrill said:


> I've seen comments from him on YouTube on some of Jon3800's videos giving more false information out to people unfamiliar with tarantulas.  He claims to have an Ephebopus murinus with a 10 inch legspan.
> 
> Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk


That´s how big they get if you feed them trolls instead of crickets.

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## purevl (Jun 11, 2015)

cold blood said:


> its not, its just far less likely...you don't see that as important or relevant?
> 
> Most newbies that get tagged NEVER do a bite report.


If most newbies NEVER do a bite report...how do you know all these supposed bites are happening?


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## BobGrill (Jun 11, 2015)

purevl said:


> If most newbies NEVER do a bite report...how do you know all these supposed bites are happening?


A) He said MOST newbies, not all

B) not all of them are newbies.  Some have a decent bit of experience,  but still end up in over their heads. 

The bottom line is that noobs are more likely to make mistakes than an experienced keeper. That is a fact. If you screw up with a highly venomous and/or defensive species,  things are more likely to turn nasty real fast. 

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk

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## awiec (Jun 11, 2015)

purevl said:


> If most newbies NEVER do a bite report...how do you know all these supposed bites are happening?


Well having talked to a few "newbies" in person who got bit by a tarantula, a lot were a little ashamed about the whole incident. I suppose I never put up a report when a friend's rosea bit me  years ago while I was holding her (hence my hands off approach and stance), of course if anyone asked me "Hey Ashley, have you ever got bit?" I would answer yes and tell my little story. Some people who have hurt pride won't be willing to share their story, especially to the people who told them not to do something in first place in fear of being ganged up on. Granted my personal findings don't mean there are a huge group of newbies getting bitten in secret but perhaps there are reasons why some don't come forward.

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## Radium (Jun 11, 2015)

Tim Benzedrine said:


> How old are you, Radium? Forgive me if that has already been revealed. You may not think that should be relevant to any of us, but it is a pretty important factor. When anybody gets tagged it can cause problems for a hobby, but when somebody underage gets hurt- hoo-boy!


I just turned 32 last week. Although my dad would have totally let me have any tarantula I wanted if the idea had occurred to me back then.


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## Ghost Dragon (Jun 11, 2015)

Congrats on your new acquisitions, Radium, and welcome to the hobby/obsession. 

I, too, have an _L. violaceopes_, who is very quick, but beautiful to look at.

I started with a rescued _G. rosea/porteri _3 years ago, and now have a collection of 30.  The NW's are my favourites, but the patterns on my pokies are awesome too.

Good luck, and let us know what you get next. :biggrin:

- Rob

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## Radium (Jun 11, 2015)

Ghost Dragon said:


> Congrats on your new acquisitions, Radium, and welcome to the hobby/obsession.
> 
> I, too, have an _L. violaceopes_, who is very quick, but beautiful to look at.
> 
> ...


Thanks! I already ordered an OBT and I went to the pet store and bought this weird tarantula that's really long and thick has scales and is kind of hugging me around the neck. Do you think it might be some kind of pokie?

(JK, the next one will definitely be _Euathlus sp. red_ or possibly a GBB.)

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## Poec54 (Jun 11, 2015)

Radium said:


> I also stated some pages back that it's my responsibility if I get bitten. That's rhetorical, though, because I can't imagine who else's responsibility it'd be.


It's the *hobby's *responsibility, the hobby will be blamed and could pay the price.  People you don't know could lose the spider collections they've had for years, even decades.  You need to think beyond yourself.  What we run into all to often is "Me, me, me."  If it was just you in a vacuum we wouldn't care what happened.  But what you do in today's society involves others: people you live with, people who visit you, & people across the state and country who own spiders.  Bites can potentially drag all of them into it.  If a few people aren't responsible enough to own tarantulas, all of us may not be able to own them.

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## Ghost Dragon (Jun 11, 2015)

Radium said:


> Thanks! I already ordered an OBT and I went to the pet store and bought this weird tarantula that's really long and thick has scales and is kind of hugging me around the neck. Do you think it might be some kind of pokie?
> 
> (JK, the next one will definitely be _Euathlus sp. red_ or possibly a GBB.)


Those are great choices too, would highly recommend them both, although the _Euathlus sp. red _will run you into more money than the GBB.  Other you might want to consider would be:

- _G. pulchra_

- _G. pulchripes_

- _B. smithi_

- _B. emilia_

- _B. albopilosum_

I realize they are all fairly safe NW's, but like I said, they are my favourites.  Even a _L. parahybana _would be a good choice, if wanted a giant in your collection.  My MF just molted last week, and her molt is 8.25" DLS.  That's a big honking spider.

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## lalberts9310 (Jun 11, 2015)

Radium said:


> Thanks! I already ordered an OBT and I went to the pet store and bought this weird tarantula that's really long and thick has scales and is kind of hugging me around the neck. Do you think it might be some kind of pokie?
> 
> (JK, the next one will definitely be _Euathlus sp. red_ or possibly a GBB.)


 Oh my gosh I almost died! Untill I read the JK part lol

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## Poec54 (Jun 11, 2015)

TownesVanZandt said:


> OWs are generally faster and do have more potent venom, hence a bite will be more painful. Because they lack urticating hairs they will give a threat posture or bite if it feels cornered rather than kicking hairs and run. Apart from that, keeping an OW is not that different from keeping a NW.


So basically, besides the stronger venoms, more defensive attitudes, faster speeds, and unpredictability in making fast dashes, OW's are no different than NW's.  Well then, I see no reason why OW's wouldn't make a great first tarantula for someone.   After all, it's not like humans are inherently spooked by large, angry, hairy spiders running around the room. _ Everyone _stays calm when that happens to them at first.  What better way to learn than by racking up a number of escapes and bites!  And is there any more sensible advice than recommending beginners to pick species by their pretty colors, rather than by the skill and experience needed to keep them.  Indulge yourself!  Get what you really what, no what you're able to work with safely.  You'll move on to something else before long anyways; don't worry about any damage you've left behind for the hobby to deal with.  You're 'spot on' today, Townes.

---------- Post added 06-11-2015 at 11:25 AM ----------




Ghost Dragon said:


> Those are great choices too, would highly recommend them both, although the _Euathlus sp. red _will run you into more money than the GBB.  Other you might want to consider would be:
> 
> - _G. pulchra_
> 
> ...



We've seen some beginners insist on getting an advanced species, after all, it's only a sling.  A few months later, they're afraid of it and it's up for sale in the classifieds.

---------- Post added 06-11-2015 at 11:26 AM ----------




jose said:


> Regardless what's done is done.



Actually not.  The LV can be easily sold or traded.

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## Radium (Jun 11, 2015)

cold blood said:


> Basically what I'm saying is that despite all the research and knowledge you've gained on the species, you couldn't possibly know what you're getting yourself into...a vague idea, yes, but don't fool yourself into thinking you actually know what your getting into....if you did, you'd have almost certainly taken it slower.
> 
> 
> Hope this helps you see where we are coming from and why we keep stressing over some points repeatedly.:smile:


I guess this is one of those things that only time will tell! Thank you for clarifying, though.

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## cold blood (Jun 11, 2015)

Ghost Dragon said:


> Those are great choices too, would highly recommend them both, although the _Euathlus sp. red _will run you into more money than the GBB.
> 
> 
> 
> ...

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## Ghost Dragon (Jun 11, 2015)

cold blood said:


> Ghost Dragon said:
> 
> 
> > Those are great choices too, would highly recommend them both, although the _Euathlus sp. red _will run you into more money than the GBB.
> ...

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## Chris LXXIX (Jun 11, 2015)

Radium said:


> Thanks! I already ordered an OBT and I went to the pet store and bought this weird tarantula that's really long and thick has scales and is kind of hugging me around the neck. Do you think it might be some kind of pokie?
> 
> (JK, the next one will definitely be _Euathlus sp. red_ or possibly a GBB.)


_Lampropelma violaceopes_, _Pterinochilus murinus.. _next _Theraphosidae_ i suggest is the "Eastern Tarantula",_ Phlogius crassipes_, or _Lyrognathus giannisposatoi_, new sp. discovered by fellow compatriot Mr. Gianni Sposato.
Joking of course too as well.

I don't know you, Radium. But accept this advice of mine.. i strongly suggest you to always be super careful with those fast (not the right word for describe them), strong venom, _Theraphosidae_.

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## TownesVanZandt (Jun 11, 2015)

Poec54 said:


> So basically, besides the stronger venoms, more defensive attitudes, faster speeds, and unpredictability in making fast dashes, OW's are no different than NW's.  Well then, I see no reason why OW's wouldn't make a great first tarantula for someone.   After all, it's not like humans are inherently spooked by large, angry, hairy spiders running around the room. _ Everyone _stays calm when that happens to them at first.  What better way to learn than by racking up a number of escapes and bites!  And is there any more sensible advice than recommending beginners to pick species by their pretty colors, rather than by the skill and experience needed to keep them.  Indulge yourself!  Get what you really what, no what you're able to work with safely.  You'll move on to something else before long anyways; don't worry about any damage you've left behind for the hobby to deal with.  You're 'spot on' today, Townes.




What on earth are you talking about? No one here has adviced anyone to pick random spiders by colours and let them run freely in a room full of people...


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## Radium (Jun 11, 2015)

Chris LXXIX said:


> _Lampropelma violaceopes_, _Pterinochilus murinus.. _next _Theraphosidae_ i suggest is the "Eastern Tarantula",_ Phlogius crassipes_, or _Lyrognathus giannisposatoi_, new sp. discovered by fellow compatriot Mr. Gianni Sposato.
> Joking.


"Barking spider" is always funny, because in the U.S. and Canada, the phrase is a euphemism for one's anus.

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## BobGrill (Jun 11, 2015)

TownesVanZandt said:


> What on earth are you talking about? No one here has adviced anyone to pick random spiders by colours and let them run freely in a room full of people...


That's not even close to what he said.

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk

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## zonbonzovi (Jun 11, 2015)

*Mod note*

OK, let it go people.  Disperse.  Find something else to do.  We get it.  Everyone has an opinion and an anus.  Neither your anus or your opinion is a special snowflake.  

Now.  There are some things that are not OK, as stated in the RULEs.  You could say that those things, as dictated by the sites rules, are "stoopid"   If you need to be publicly shamed to realize the rules that EVERYONE has been required to read also apply to you, then so be it.

Yeah, I'm looking at you, Chainsaw 

Salutations,

Mean Guy

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