# Stopping Use of AMAC containers for Arboreal Species



## Jeff23 (Dec 16, 2016)

I have decided to stop using AMAC containers for arboreal T's.  I recently lost my first T when an Avic had a bad molt (occurred when I was out of town for a few days).  The dead sling was still attached to its molt when I returned.  Even if I had returned in time, I would have needed to tear the whole container contents apart to access this T in the spot where it made home.

You break the T's web links to the substrate every time you open an AMAC.  Their web links are what helps them to detect a cricket, roach, worm is present.   It is time consuming to try to find ways to get food to the ones that won't leave their nest area to go search for prey.  A few of my Avic slings are tending to continue with an ignorance on food and water well past their molt completion. 

I placed holes in multiple locations on my AMAC's for insertion of a syringe.  I have even placed holes in the top of the AMAC and used a laboratory rubber stopper for upper access with a feeder.  But it is luck of the draw on whether you will have these holes in the right places to tempt them with water and food to get them back into a strong growth period.

I know I am still green on experience so I am curious on everyone's comments and opinions.  I have just inserted an A. Diversipes into a cereal keeper with a gap at the top to keep web from getting attached to the lid.


----------



## Formerphobe (Dec 16, 2016)

I've never had a problem with inverted AMAC containers for Avics or Poecilotheria. Some young Psalmopoeus are the only ones that want to connect ceiling to substrate and even that wasn't too problematic.
For feeding, I just turn the top upside down, drop prey into vicinity of tube web or spider, spider grabs it.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Jeff23 (Dec 16, 2016)

Formerphobe said:


> I've never had a problem with inverted AMAC containers for Avics or Poecilotheria. Some young Psalmopoeus are the only ones that want to connect ceiling to substrate and even that wasn't too problematic.
> For feeding, I just turn the top upside down, drop prey into vicinity of tube web or spider, spider grabs it.


On part of my containers plastic plants will deflect the prey in a different direction.  On the ones where a direct shot is possible, the prey sticks in some web somewhere below the Avic's tunnel and gets ignored on most occasions.  My best results have occurred when I can drop the prey near the end of the tunnel where it opens.  That is why I created some holes in the top of the AMAC.

I prefer a taller/larger container rather than an AMAC for my Psalms and Tapi's due to their speed, but I have no problems on feeding them.  It is mostly Avic's where I am having difficulties.


----------



## viper69 (Dec 16, 2016)

I've never had a problem with AMACs. As far as forgetting about food/water this is something that is INDEPENDENT of the container they are in. Never have issue w/breaking web strands either, they get broken, and the Avics all come down to the bottom anyway when they are hungry.

I understand your concerns but a container change won't fix their natural biology/behavior. I see the same behavior in all containers Jeff.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Jeff23 (Dec 16, 2016)

viper69 said:


> I've never had a problem with AMACs. As far as forgetting about food/water this is something that is INDEPENDENT of the container they are in. Never have issue w/breaking web strands either, they get broken, and the Avics all come down to the bottom anyway when they are hungry.
> 
> I understand your concerns but a container change won't fix their natural biology/behavior. I see the same behavior in all containers Jeff.


It is dependent on the container is what I believe.  The AMAC will not allow you to put moisture in some places easily.  I can put a small drop of water almost anywhere in a deli cup or snap top cereal keeper without putting any holes in the container (beyond ventilation needs).

The most vulnerable ones are the smaller slings.  Some of them do not go down to search for food or water properly.    It seems like this is also more likely to happen on mine after they have molted.  I don't know the logic on this. Most of the crickets (pre-kill or live) in the bottom of these AMAC's go uneaten.  Many of these same slings have accepted prey or water after I somehow positioned prey right next to them near their web.  These T's are also struggling to grow versus others that I bought at a later date in the same size who have out grown them after I put a laboratory rubber stopper in the top along with a lot more access holes.  But I am tired of creating all of these extra holes in the container.


----------



## Jeff23 (Dec 16, 2016)

EDIT * Oops.  Double post - sorry about that.


----------



## MetalMan2004 (Dec 16, 2016)

The major unanswered question I see with this is the difference in WC survival rate and CB survival rate.

Spiders have large amounts of offspring because only a fraction will survive in the wild.  We can certainly increase the survival rate in captivity with good care, but some are bound to die.

In the wild, those that can't figure out how to hunt would die.  In captivity, its a gamble.  Is the owner willing to put prey right in front of their face every time (if possible, which it isn't always the case with AMACs) or are they going to make the sling work for it and leave the prey on the floor?

Its unfortunate, but you can't win them all...

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## viper69 (Dec 16, 2016)

Jeff23 said:


> It is dependent on the container is what I believe.  The AMAC will not allow you to put moisture in some places easily.  I can put a small drop of water almost anywhere in a deli cup or snap top cereal keeper without putting any holes in the container (beyond ventilation needs).
> 
> The most vulnerable ones are the smaller slings.  Some of them do not go down to search for food or water properly.    It seems like this is also more likely to happen on mine after they have molted.  I don't know the logic on this. Most of the crickets (pre-kill or live) in the bottom of these AMAC's go uneaten.  Many of these same slings have accepted prey or water after I somehow positioned prey right next to them near their web.  These T's are also struggling to grow versus others that I bought at a later date in the same size who have out grown them after I put a laboratory rubber stopper in the top along with a lot more access holes.  But I am tired of creating all of these extra holes in the container.


Again Jeff, their behavior is independent of the container they are in. My Avics have no idea they are in a AMAC box or a Thorton vial. They behave the same.

The only thing that changes is the owner's access to the T and its owner's willingness to drill holes 

I used to put 4 holes on top of the AMAC, 1 per corner. That didn't give me enough reach for a syringe. Now I put 3 along each side and 4 more (closer to the center a bit) in the shape of a square.

I'm not saying you can't use another container hah. All I'm saying is their behavior doesn't change because you switch containers


----------



## Jeff23 (Dec 17, 2016)

viper69 said:


> Again Jeff, their behavior is independent of the container they are in. My Avics have no idea they are in a AMAC box or a Thorton vial. They behave the same.
> 
> The only thing that changes is the owner's access to the T and its owner's willingness to drill holes
> 
> ...


I can agree with that.   And it isn't that I think nobody should use an AMAC.  I do love the clearness of the plastic on them which makes them a great presentation container.  It is easy to create small holes on an AMAC and they will also be needed on any other container.  It is just that I think they need a large hole at the top for access to make them more flexible.  This can be awkward to accomplish since there needs to be a way to access whatever side the T puts its web and plug the hole.  I suppose in creating this thread I was hoping there might be a solution to make these containers a better choice.


----------



## viper69 (Dec 17, 2016)

Jeff23 said:


> I suppose in creating this thread I was hoping there might be a solution to make these containers a better choice.


More holes

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Lil Paws (Dec 6, 2017)

I'm actually considering drilling a hole in the top of mine to add a cork—just to drop in prey.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## MetalMan2004 (Dec 6, 2017)

And just like that a year old thread is brought back to life!  Instead if a hole in the top with a cork I did this:

Reactions: Like 2 | Useful 1


----------



## Nightshady (Dec 6, 2017)

This is an interesting topic. I’ve had a somewhat similar experience with my Veriscolor that made a web hammock between the ceiling of my arboreal habitat and the cork bark wall.

The sling doesn’t seem to leave its hammock much, and crickets that stay on the floor seem to go untouched. Fortunately, crickets aren’t bright, and I’ve noticed that if I put them on the cork bark wall, they often times will wander right up to the web hammock and get snatched.

The idea of fabricating an opening at the top of the habitat had crossed my mind, but so far the sling seems to be getting enough feeding despite its reluctance to leave its hammock.


----------



## Lil Paws (Dec 6, 2017)

MetalMan2004 said:


> And just like that a year old thread is brought back to life!  Instead if a hole in the top with a cork I did this:
> 
> View attachment 259648



Ah, that's what I get for searching for Avic enclosure ideas. I really like the little screw cap's look. I'll keep it in mind when I make a more permanent enclosure.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Ratmosphere (Dec 6, 2017)

Just seeing this thread, never had this problem however.


----------



## MetalMan2004 (Dec 6, 2017)

Lil Paws said:


> Ah, that's what I get for searching for Avic enclosure ideas. I really like the little screw cap's look. I'll keep it in mind when I make a more permanent enclosure.


The search feature is a good thing .

I have the screw caps on the back bottom where you can barely see them which I like.  Perhaps you could put one on the back at the top of the enclosure and hope that the T doesn’t web it closed.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## edesign (Dec 6, 2017)

It happens, don't worry about it. I recently converted many of my slings/juvies to Amac containers (amongst others, still trying to find that perfect enclosure).

I have various Psalmos, Ybyrapora, Avicularia, Tappies, Lampropelma, Cyriopagopus, and some Heteropoda in them. Heteropoda aren't Ts, just listed them for completeness, no webbing to worry about...just teleportation powers  I've had various luck, some web from top to bottom in one corner (my T. gigas slings for example, and one of my L. violceopes juvies), some in multiple corners, others stay below the lid split, others above, some right on it. Inverting them so the lid is on the bottom is a good idea and negates some of the problems if you're lucky. Unfortunately for me I figured my Psalmos and Tappies would stay lower and thus kept them upright. Most of the Tappies have done as I expected but most of the Psalmos have used much or all of the available above-ground space for webbing lol. This means I may wind up rehousing some. Whee!

I resisted Amacs for a long time but the transparency and size makes them perfect in those regards. I'm not a fan of how rough/tight the lids fit as it is near impossible to open them without the inhabitant fleeing in to its hide. The plastic isn't a high enough quality to take photos though and QC is fairly variable for lid fit and plastic quality. I often go through every single container on the shelf and choose the ones with consistent plastic thickness/"flow" (some you can see waves of irregularities), fewest scratches, and best fitting lids (easiest to take off). I wind up compromising much of the time.

With that said I don't know of anything else near the same price that offers the same visibility. I have other plastic containers that I like that are crystal clear...except for the lids :/ I've considered feeding ports and such but that's a lot of work if you have many multiples to modify. I'm lazy heh.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Lil Paws (Dec 6, 2017)

Exactly! When these guys are slings it's a balance of how much work you want to put into for a temporary enclosure.... Though I guess if we are hooked, it could always be looked at as a future "hand-me-down" for another sling.

But I am also a fan of being able to see my Ts very well so most of my collection are in Amacs of some sort. So far so good for my little Versi who is in one (fingers crossed). My only beef is Amacs are difficult to photograph through (at least more so than glass).

Tonight I did something a bit different. I upcycled a big Utz pretzel jar for a last-minute setup. My husband scored me an early X-mas gift. That's the fastest I've ever had to put together an enclosure. Thank goodness for good power tools!

Reactions: Like 1


----------

