# Two female corn snakes; love or aggression?



## gambite (Apr 20, 2009)

I have two female adult corn snakes together in a tank, and they have always gotten along fine. Today, though, I noticed that they were very unusually active. When I investigated, I found one on top the other, with her body trying to completely cover the other girl and wrapping their tails together. Obviously, its sounds like mating behavior, but they are both female! So, are they just enjoying themselves or is this a sign of aggression/dominance? Should I separate them? They are both roughly the same size, though they may need a larger tank. 

PIcs:


















This has been going on for about an hour now, and I am a little worried about what they will do next if this is indeed a show of aggression.


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## Boanerges (Apr 20, 2009)

Definately dominance!!! I would personally seperate them. Even if they don't attck each other it is a TON of stress on both of them (especially the sub). On a side note they are pretty   Good luck with whatever you decide!!!


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## Jmugleston (Apr 20, 2009)

How sure are you on their sex? I've kept females together for years without issue. Typically males fight with other males, and males mount females in attempt to breed. I'm trying to think if I've ever had two female corns do this. I have had many other species behave in this manner, but my corns were typically calm if the both were female.


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## halfwaynowhere (Apr 20, 2009)

I would say separate them. And maybe double-check on their sex. 
My sister had temporarily housed two males together last year. Boy were we surprised when one of those males started laying eggs! She hadn't been fattened up for breeding.

I've seen two males displaying this type of behavior when housed together, as well. it wouldn't surprise me if two females would do the same, but I'd at least check the sex if you plan on keeping them together.


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## gambite (Apr 20, 2009)

These were probed by a local vet that specializes in herps, so I am pretty sure they are female. Would getting a larger tank for them alleviate stress problems? Having them cohabitate is really cool...

Also, this is the first time I have seen them do anything like this in the 8+ months I have had them. They have always sat on top each other or next to each other, but I have never seen them so active in doing so. My first thought was that maybe it was a reaction to the changing seasons (its the beginning of spring, so animals everywhere should be out mating).


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## Mister Internet (Apr 20, 2009)

gambite said:


> Having them cohabitate is really cool...


Most of the advice you're going to get from experienced herpers is that as a general rule, cohabiting is more of a stress on snakes than not.  I think based on that, regardless of how "cool" it is, it's a good idea to house adult snakes separately... at some point you have to do what's best for the animals...


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## Mushroom Spore (Apr 20, 2009)

Yeah, they need seperate tanks. They don't find it half as "cool" as you do.


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## UrbanJungles (Apr 20, 2009)

That looks like an awfully thick tail on that albino for a female...I would get a second opinion on the sex.


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## LeilaNami (Apr 20, 2009)

UrbanJungles said:


> That looks like an awfully thick tail on that albino for a female...I would get a second opinion on the sex.


This.  Even if it is a dominance display between two females, I suggest you separate them or they'll constantly be agitated.


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## Pacmaster (Apr 20, 2009)

First of all, when were they probed-as hatchlings or adults- and yeah, vets are experts on snakes . . .  

Every species is different when probing, and tho I feel comfortable probing kings, Id never claim to be 100% on any probing, especially a species Im not familiar with . . .

I have never heard of dominance issues when refering to female snakes.

Lemme know when SHE lays eggs, and Ill help you hatch em out . . .


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## halfwaynowhere (Apr 20, 2009)

if they normally lay on top of each other, or next to each other, they aren't cuddling, or hanging out together. Its a dominance thing, and its stressing both of them out.


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## UrbanJungles (Apr 20, 2009)

It could be dominance but it looks to me on the second pic that the albino is trying to slip it's tail under the other...I've never seen females take it _that_ far.


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## pitbulllady (Apr 21, 2009)

I'd get a second opinion as to the sex of those snakes, preferably done by someone who breeds Corns or other Rat Snakes and has a lot of experiencing with probing.  As a Corn breeder myself, I have to agree that the base of the tail on the Amel looks awfully thick and "bulgy" for a female's!  I've never had female Corns exhibit dominance/aggression-not saying it won't happen, but I've never seen it.  Now, MALES are a different ballgame entirely, and most males in the _Elaphe/Pantherophis_ genus will fight during the breeding season when their hormones get stirred up, and don't let the stories of "they won't actually hurt each other" fool you; they will seriously "throw down" like dogs and can do some real damage, especially in a confined space where the subordinate animal can't escape.  I've had to have Black Rat males stitched up following one of those "non-violent" dominance struggles, so I had to learn this the hard way.

pitbulllady


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## arachnocat (Apr 21, 2009)

I keep two adult female corns in a fairly large cage with four hiding spots. Even so, one will usually be on top of the other in the same hide. I don't have any problems with stress or feeding (the eat in a separate tank). Each snake is different though and as long as you are able to recognize signs of stress its ok to try keeping them together. Your snakes look pretty normal to me. Mine don't really show a preference for who's on top, they just seem to like to snug up together. Although some people will say that they're just competing for the best spot in the tank. It's just a matter of opinion I guess. Who knows what the snakes are really thinking about.


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## gambite (Apr 22, 2009)

Besides their acting up this once, I have not seen any other signs of stress or aggression, and there is no evidence that they have bitten each other or done anything of the like in the 8+ months I have had them together. Them being a male/female pair would be a welcome surprise.


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## burmish101 (Apr 26, 2009)

Personally I wouldnt trust many vets with my snakes. I once had a vet give a shot to a big retic for RI and he stuck the needle straight through the scale on the tail, at least going under the scale would have been more plausible then straight through it, she didnt react too litely to that I was holding her head lol. I think for the most part they know their meds and doses though.


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## GartenSpinnen (May 2, 2009)

They are lesbians, leave them alone, let them do their thing, and hang a rainbow bumper sticker in there to show your support... 

J/K ditto to the above, separate them ASAP.


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