# American Southwest Vivarium- Please give suggestions.



## Tenevanica (Nov 19, 2015)

Hey y'all! I've been thinking for a while, and I think it would be really cool to make a vivarium in a ten gallon long that showcases inverts (and possibly plants) that live in the Southwestern United States. I would want multiple species of invertebrates to share the terrarium to create a beautiful setup that would give guests to my home a peak into the natural habitats of Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada, and South Cal. I'd decorate the vivarium with cholla wood, rocks, pet shop ornaments, and possibly live plants. I want it to be as naturalistic as possible! If anyone has done something like this before, and has any suggestions about plants I could use, animals I could put in, or anything else, a post would be appreciated. Pictures are encouraged. 

Current animals planned to be part of the vivarium:
My tenebrionid beetles. (See my profile for an exact list of species.)
Velvet ants. (Dasymutilla sp.)

Current animals I am considering:
Desert hairy scorpion. (Concerned about having standing water for it to drink. I also have the obvious concern of it eating its tank-mates.)
Orthoporus millipedes. (Concerned because they have different care requirements from the rest of the animals.)

Have any other suggestions for animals? Please tell me them! I want a really great looking vivarium. 
All animals must:
Be native to the American Southwest.
Thrive in the conditions with the other animals.
Not have overly difficult care requirements.
Not eat the other animals. (Don't suggest Aphonopelma Ts.)

Live Plants:
If you have any suggestions for live plants, please tell me them as well.
Live plants must:
Be native to the American Southwest.
Be non-toxic.
Be slow growing.
Must thrive in a sandy substrate.
Must not have overly difficult care requirements.

Any other suggestions are welcome!


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## pannaking22 (Nov 19, 2015)

You may be able to get away with a desert hairy with your group of tenebrionids and mutillids. There are a couple threads floating around of _A. verrucosus_ living with the scorp and nothing happens. I'm not sure if that would extend to the mutillids and other tenbrionids, but considering how tough those two families are, I wouldn't be surprised if the scorp passed on them for easier prey items. A water dish wouldn't be a problem as long as you put pebbles in there too so that if somethin smaller falls in they can climb back out again. As an alternative to the desert hairy, you could also look into getting other species of scorpions that might be a bit more active (_Smeringurus_ and _Vaejovis_ come to mind). They would be smaller too, which should decrease the chance of them eating their tank mates. I believe you can keep _V. spinigerus_ communally as well as long as there are plenty of hides.

If you'd prefer millipedes, just provide a dark, moist hide for them and they should be set. 

For plants, all I can really think of would be some cactus, but that's likely because I'm starting to design a desert tank with several cacti in it!

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Tenevanica (Nov 20, 2015)

pannaking22 said:


> You may be able to get away with a desert hairy with your group of tenebrionids and mutillids. There are a couple threads floating around of _A. verrucosus_ living with the scorp and nothing happens. I'm not sure if that would extend to the mutillids and other tenbrionids, but considering how tough those two families are, I wouldn't be surprised if the scorp passed on them for easier prey items. A water dish wouldn't be a problem as long as you put pebbles in there too so that if somethin smaller falls in they can climb back out again. As an alternative to the desert hairy, you could also look into getting other species of scorpions that might be a bit more active (_Smeringurus_ and _Vaejovis_ come to mind). They would be smaller too, which should decrease the chance of them eating their tank mates. I believe you can keep _V. spinigerus_ communally as well as long as there are plenty of hides.
> 
> If you'd prefer millipedes, just provide a dark, moist hide for them and they should be set.
> 
> For plants, all I can really think of would be some cactus, but that's likely because I'm starting to design a desert tank with several cacti in it!


Yeah, I'm a bit worried about scorps. V. confusus seems like the best option for me. They are small, and I have confirmed that the can live communally. I'm thinking if I kept it well fed (I.E. stuffing a roach in its face every five days or so) I think it would leave the other inhabitants alone. I might test that by putting the scorp in a small container with another species and if the scorpion goes after it I can intervene by putting cardboard between the two. If it leaves everything alone I might (reluctantly) put the scorpion in.

As for millipedes, do I have to provide a different substrate in one area of the tank? Some people put their millipedes on a special substrate, but I've seen other people keep them on shallow sand. I'd like to keep atleast 75% of the vivarium bone dry to fit the needs of the tenebs and mutillids. Which one of the following images would be better? I would prefer option 2, if the millipedes would be fine in there.







Any other info is appreciated!


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## pannaking22 (Nov 21, 2015)

I think the second option would be fine. They would just need a nice humid retreat and you might even be able to put the food dish near their hide too so they can easily get food and go back to their hide if they start getting dry.


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## ErinM31 (Apr 7, 2016)

Tenevanica said:


> Hey y'all! I've been thinking for a while, and I think it would be really cool to make a vivarium in a ten gallon long that showcases inverts (and possibly plants) that live in the Southwestern United States. I would want multiple species of invertebrates to share the terrarium to create a beautiful setup that would give guests to my home a peak into the natural habitats of Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada, and South Cal. I'd decorate the vivarium with cholla wood, rocks, pet shop ornaments, and possibly live plants. I want it to be as naturalistic as possible! If anyone has done something like this before, and has any suggestions about plants I could use, animals I could put in, or anything else, a post would be appreciated. Pictures are encouraged.
> 
> Current animals planned to be part of the vivarium:
> My tenebrionid beetles. (See my profile for an exact list of species.)
> ...


How did you go with that tank set up? I'd love to see pics. 

I just got three _Orthoporus ornatus_ that I have in a 10 gallon with some branches to climb on and a few small cacti. I was wondering if there were insects native to the southwest that I might eventually add. My priority is the millipedes' health and if they DO produce eggs, I certainly don't want those to be disturbed or eaten!


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## Tenevanica (Apr 8, 2016)

ErinM31 said:


> How did you go with that tank set up? I'd love to see pics.
> 
> I just got three _Orthoporus ornatus_ that I have in a 10 gallon with some branches to climb on and a few small cacti. I was wondering if there were insects native to the southwest that I might eventually add. My priority is the millipedes' health and if they DO produce eggs, I certainly don't want those to be disturbed or eaten!


Blue death feigning beetles and velvet ants are some nice southwestern native insects. I mostly keep beetles in tank. You can check my profile for a full list. I don't believe _Orthoporus ornatus _reproduces in captivity. If they do lay eggs, that would be great!

Picture:

Reactions: Like 3


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## ErinM31 (Apr 9, 2016)

Tenevanica said:


> Blue death feigning beetles and velvet ants are some nice southwestern native insects. I mostly keep beetles in tank. You can check my profile for a full list. I don't believe _Orthoporus ornatus _reproduces in captivity. If they do lay eggs, that would be great!
> 
> Picture:
> View attachment 208074


That looks really neat!  I will look up the beetles in your profile list as I am not familiar with them by their scientific names yet. You are right that no one has of yet obtained _Orthoporous ornatus_ offspring in captivity yet, but I am still going to try, and on the rare chance that I DO, I certainly don't want to endanger them in anyway! I imagine some beetles might be safe as I think they usually have very specific diets (although I won't add any unless I know for sure) but ants... they drive out everything.  Well, I'm sure your velvet ants are pretty but I think all the ants in the woods around me are why so many other species are rare or missing -- and they bite me as well!


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## TarantulasWorld (Apr 9, 2016)

Small stone slabs and miniture cacti might be great for you.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## ErinM31 (Apr 9, 2016)

Tenevanica said:


> As for millipedes, do I have to provide a different substrate in one area of the tank? Some people put their millipedes on a special substrate, but I've seen other people keep them on shallow sand. I'd like to keep atleast 75% of the vivarium bone dry to fit the needs of the tenebs and mutillids. Which one of the following images would be better? I would prefer option 2, if the millipedes would be fine in there.
> 
> View attachment 140225
> 
> ...


This may no longer be relevant, but I would go with the first option as these millipedes naturally burrow into the soil for moisture so most of the substrate could be dry on top for the beetles' liking. I looked at the desert beetle substrate on BugsInCyberspace and it looks like its probably similar to the millipede substrate but with the addition of sand -- that may actually be perfect for _Orthoporus_ _ornatus _only they'll need some moisture/humidity to retreat to.

I am new to all this, but those are my thoughts on the matter.


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## Tenevanica (Apr 9, 2016)

ErinM31 said:


> That looks really neat!  I will look up the beetles in your profile list as I am not familiar with them by their scientific names yet. You are right that no one has of yet obtained _Orthoporous ornatus_ offspring in captivity yet, but I am still going to try, and on the rare chance that I DO, I certainly don't want to endanger them in anyway! I imagine some beetles might be safe as I think they usually have very specific diets (although I won't add any unless I know for sure) but ants... they drive out everything.  Well, I'm sure your velvet ants are pretty but I think all the ants in the woods around me are why so many other species are rare or missing -- and they bite me as well!


Velvet ants aren't real ants, they're flightless wasps. They look like ants, but they actually make up the family Mutlillidae. They make great tank mates with darkling beetles, as they are not predatory, but instead feed on overripe fruit and sugary liquids.


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## ErinM31 (Apr 10, 2016)

Tenevanica said:


> Velvet ants aren't real ants, they're flightless wasps. They look like ants, but they actually make up the family Mutlillidae. They make great tank mates with darkling beetles, as they are not predatory, but instead feed on overripe fruit and sugary liquids.


That is interesting!  I wonder if larger creatures would be safe with them? Do the velvet ants sting you? I can imagine they would be fine with darkling beetles -- I called them "tank beetles" when I first saw them upon moving to Texas. I caught a scorpion and wanted to see how they capture prey; a large darkling beetle happened to be present so into the container it went. It walked over the miserable scorpion unconcerned, looking for how to get out of this inconvenient enclosure! XD


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## Tenevanica (Apr 11, 2016)

ErinM31 said:


> That is interesting!  I wonder if larger creatures would be safe with them? Do the velvet ants sting you? I can imagine they would be fine with darkling beetles -- I called them "tank beetles" when I first saw them upon moving to Texas. I caught a scorpion and wanted to see how they capture prey; a large darkling beetle happened to be present so into the container it went. It walked over the miserable scorpion unconcerned, looking for how to get out of this inconvenient enclosure! XD


Velvet ants are safe with anything that isn't coated in sugary liquid  They can sting, and their sting is said to be incredibly painful, but they only sting in defense and as long as you don't handle them you should be OK. They aren't aggressive from my experience.

Darkling beetles are incredibly tough. I've heard of anecdotal reports in which massive tarantulas wouldn't even take a darkling beetle lol.


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## GSA8 (Apr 12, 2016)

There are some nice dudleya sp. from inland CA that meet your requirements.  The only issue I see with keeping multiple species, is that unless they have identical requirements, a 10 gallon tank is hard to create the micro-climates needed to support multiple species.  Superstitionia donensis are small, largely subterranean scorps, you could create a multi-level environment, with a subterranean commune for a small group of the non-aggressive S donensis.  You could also consider Asbolus verrucosus, Phidippus audax, Armadillidium vulgare, Stenopelmatus nigrocapitatus, Eleodes dentipes, Thermobia domestica, Stenelytrana emarginata, Zopherus haldemani.  Look into mantids native to the southwest if you like as well.


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## Tanner Dzula (Apr 12, 2016)

As for plants, 

What specific region of the US south west were you interested in? 

IE: i live in arizona so i can give you a nice list of plants native here, and some especially that would probably be perfect for your tank, but the extent of my knowledge is primarily with the Sonoran desert area of the SouthWest.  

But those also wouldn't co-reside as nice in a very differed environment(like one seen in south cali, or like New mexico/texas landscapes and environments) 

Either way, i strongly recommend atlas 1-2 different types of Cacti. 

Little barrel cacti _Echinocactus_ and _Ferocactus are very common throughout the Entire Southwest, Relatively cheap and can be found or grown pretty easily. 

a *sclerocactus parvifloru *might also interest you, they stay relatively small, fishhooked spines so cleaning and care around them is a little easier, as well as a nice little Flower that blooms in the spring, makes a very nice addition. _


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## Temjeito (May 27, 2021)

I know this thread is long dead but I’m in the same boat right now and curious what you ended up doing, op.


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