# Which is the best communal tarantula?



## JC (Jul 20, 2009)

I have been wanting to start a communal project for some time, but I don't know if its a good idea because of possible cannibalism. What do you guys think is the best T for this? Which spider has the lowest record or cannibalism in a community?


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## Endagr8 (Jul 20, 2009)

either:

_H. incei_
Or
_H. villosella_


Some pokies also exhibit good communal characteristics.


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## Sathane (Jul 20, 2009)

_Holothele_ and _Heterothele_ specimens seems to be the best for this.  _Holothele incei_ has been done by a few people with the best results.  I have _Heterothele villosella_ and a _Heterothele gabonensis_ communal projects on the go right now and neither have suffered losses.  I also have a _P. murinus_ communal going with 4 specimens that started out as 5.


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## Moltar (Jul 20, 2009)

I haven't read much on H. villosella but I've seen plenty on H. incei and it's amazing. They seem to actually do better in just about every way in communities than solo. Also several species of Poecilotheria do rather well in communities as well.


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## Sathane (Jul 20, 2009)

Talkenlate04 has a fairly big _Poecilotheria regalis_ communal project going and, as far as I've heard, there have been no losses.

I have to agree with etown though on the _H. incei_.  There is just so much more to this dwarf species that you just don't get to experience unless you have a nice community going with them.  I can't wait to see the maternal behaviours when my girl's sac hatches out.


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## Endagr8 (Jul 20, 2009)

You could give _M. balfouri_ a shot. ;P  ;P



Sathane said:


> Talkenlate04 has a fairly big _Poecilotheria regalis_ communal project going and, as far as I've heard, there have been no losses.


He also has a _P. pederseni_ commune of 20 with no losses. 

Some of his communal-_regalis_ males matured recently.


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## robc (Jul 20, 2009)

Sathane said:


> _Holothele_ and _Heterothele_ specimens seems to be the best for this.  _Holothele incei_ has been done by a few people with the best results.  I have _Heterothele villosella_ and a _Heterothele gabonensis_ communal projects on the go right now and neither have suffered losses.  I also have a _P. murinus_ communal going with 4 specimens that started out as 5.


I  totaly agree but add H. gigas to the list...one of the best and most interesting behavoirs I have studied!


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## JC (Jul 20, 2009)

Endagr8 said:


> You could give _M. balfouri_ a shot. ;P  ;P


lol, yeah right  .


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## pato_chacoana (Jul 20, 2009)

_Pamphobeteus_ sp. 'chicken spider' ;P


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## syndicate (Jul 20, 2009)

I would go with one of the Poecilotheria species.That is minus metallica,ornata and striata.Also I will mention that h.incei will eat each other!I think the key to keeping them together may be using a really large tank so they can all kind of create there own territories.
-Chris


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## JC (Jul 20, 2009)

pato_chacoana said:


> _Pamphobeteus_ sp. 'chicken spider' ;P


I actually thought this one would be first on the list, guess not. Has anyone tried the 'chicken spider'? Do these grow big? Smaller is better for me.


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## Sathane (Jul 20, 2009)

It's actually the opposite.  You want to use a tank that is large enough to not overcrowd the population but small enough to force the individuals to interact regularly.  If you allow them to establish territories they get territorial, naturally, and will be more aggressive to 'intruders'.

All species will eat each other on occasion  which is why you should always expect some losses when considering a communal project.  I'm not saying you are definitely going to have losses, you should be prepared in case there are some.



syndicate said:


> I would go with one of the Poecilotheria species.That is minus metallica,ornata and striata.Also I will mention that h.incei will eat each other!I think the key to keeping them together may be using a really large tank so they can all kind of create there own territories.
> -Chris


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## Protectyaaaneck (Jul 20, 2009)

I'd go with a pokie.  

I know it's not the best pic but here is my small fasciata communal.  All are 1.5"~


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## Spyder 1.0 (Jul 20, 2009)

i have 6 p.regalis in a small cube doing fine. They are one molt above the fasciatas above


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## syndicate (Jul 20, 2009)

Sathane said:


> It's actually the opposite.  You want to use a tank that is large enough to not overcrowd the population but small enough to force the individuals to interact regularly.  If you allow them to establish territories they get territorial, naturally, and will be more aggressive to 'intruders'.
> 
> All species will eat each other on occasion  which is why you should always expect some losses when considering a communal project.  I'm not saying you are definitely going to have losses, you should be prepared in case there are some.


Well this is true with Poecilotheria communals yes.But in my reply I was referring to keeping H.incei in a group setting.
After trying to keep them communally only 3 out of 10 survived,which I believe is due to not a big enough tank.These spiders aren't nearly as social as Poecilotheria either!
-Chris


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## Sathane (Jul 20, 2009)

I'll have to read up a bit more on the _H. incei_ communals as my sac is due to hatch out in about 3 weeks or so.  

As for _H. villosella_ and _H. gabonensis_, my method has worked out well for them but I do remember another member on these boards very recently who mentioned that he's kept an _H. villosella_ communal quite successfully using the 'large tank first' method.



syndicate said:


> Well this is true with Poecilotheria communals yes.But in my reply I was referring to keeping H.incei in a group setting.
> After trying to keep them communally only 3 out of 10 survived,which I believe is due to not a big enough tank.These spiders aren't nearly as social as Poecilotheria either!
> -Chris


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## LadySharon (Sep 18, 2009)

Hello.   I have a question and rather then start a new thread I thought I'd do a search and bump an old one.. this one is closest to what I'm thinking and only a few months old.

I wanted to EVENTUALLY try putting avacs together... and seeing the ad for 5 slings (which I apperently missed out on) reminded me of it.

But now reading some of these threads it doesn't sound like avacs are really communal...

But all the Ts I see listed in this thread are either: 1. old world, fast, too advanced for me.... or 2... unknown to me.   

So first I wanted to know about this Holothele genus everyone keeps mentioning in this thread.    What kind of T are they? (I did some searching but I'm still not sure if they are "bitey")

and IS there any "new world" read "beginner"  maybe "intermediate" T's that are communal?  This would be for future reference as I am not ready to try this yet. 
(But I am watching the "old world" threads - like the OBTs with interest on the general "how to"  )

- Sharon


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## JimM (Sep 18, 2009)

I personally don't see the point in a communal setup unless you can successfully add unrelated individuals, and therefore produce offspring that are not the result of inbreeding. Anyone know where this has been done with pokies or even H. incei?


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## billopelma (Sep 18, 2009)

There have been a number of good multi-page "discussions" on invert inbreeding here which, IMHO, have pretty much established that even many multiples of generations of inbreeding have little/no ill effect. Evidently the same rules don't apply to bugs and higher animals. 


Bill


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## Bill S (Sep 19, 2009)

JimM said:


> I personally don't see the point in a communal setup unless you can successfully add unrelated individuals, and therefore produce offspring that are not the result of inbreeding. Anyone know where this has been done with pokies or even H. incei?


Once you've got a large colony of spiders going - so that you have multiple generations involved - you could probably introduce an occasional mature male from outside to improve the genetic diversity.  Because of the size of the animals involved, it would probably be a lot easier to do this with _H. incei_ than with pokies.  I think a couple key points would be to have a large colony and a large container - and I'm not sure how well pokie colonies would do under this situation.  Seems like most of the people setting up pokie groups keep groups forced together in relatively small containers to prevent individuals from setting up their own territories.  I don't think this is as big a concern with _Holotheles_.


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## Warren Bautista (Sep 19, 2009)

I currently have a communal of 15 2i-3i P. murinus.

I have a thread somewhere here....


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## LadySharon (Sep 19, 2009)

ok... maybe I should have started my own thread instead of bumping because it looks like some replys are directed at the op ...

Warren your one of the "old world threads I'm watching" I mentioned in my post. (#17.)

Can anyone answer my questions?  (post #17)

- Sharon


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## Sathane (Sep 20, 2009)

_Holothele incei_ is a great communal tarantula.  Very tolerant and can be kept in large groups.  Maternal behaviours are incredible.  The mother will kill prey and drop it to the babies who will then share n the feast.

My female recently hatched out a huge sac of 122 babies.  I've traded off 60 of then so far and still have the rest ina communal setup.  The babies hatch at just around 1/2" or so and are now about an inch each.

This is a dwarf species so they stay relatively small - about 2.5" or so.  A very nice metallic sheen to their olive coloured bodies and temperment is great (for the most part).  My female is very docile and doesn't seem to mind being moved around with my maintenance tongs when needed.  The only time she's ever shown any defensiveness is when tending to her sac (but she shouldn't be bothered at the time anyway).

As for new world communals, I can't think of any off the top of my head that would be a definite choice.
That being said, when I pick up my first _G. rosea_ female, about 15 years ago, I knew very little about these creatures and bought another that I was told was male and put him in her tank hoping to watch them mate.  I was so new that the male wasn't mature at all so there was no action.  I just thought I could breed them like hamsters (Yes, I was a uber-newb.  You can stop laughing now.  ).  Anyway, they lived together for well over 2 years with no problems at all.  I still own the female.  The male has long since matured and died.  Both behaved like a perfect couple.  Ate properly and even co-habitated in the large plastic hide I had in the tank.   Until I actually got into the hobby (I don't consider someone "in the hobby" until they are actually taking an active interest and spend more time in it.), and learned that _Grammostola rosea_ isn't a communal species, I thought the behaviour I was seeing was typical of the species.

I consider an OBT an intermediate level spider and they work well in communes.  I ran a 5 specimen communal for about 8 months and only separated them when their was a huge variance in size of the spiders as some were obviously hogging all the food.   You are aware of their speed and tendency to be defensive so you just need to experience one to see that they are not as bad as they are made out to be.  Common sense needs to be used in their care, as with all spiders.  IE:  If you have a runner, get an enclosure that allows you to do maintenance without having to remove the entire lid (one with a 'hatch' of sorts in the lid).  If you have a particularly cranky specimen, don't try to pet it.  I have a good breeder female that is a kitten.  She is very handleable and sweet, until she has an egg sac.  Then she displays the orange terror behaviour but that's to be expected.

Great spider that is a must in every collection, in my opinion.  



LadySharon said:


> Hello.   I have a question and rather then start a new thread I thought I'd do a search and bump an old one.. this one is closest to what I'm thinking and only a few months old.
> 
> I wanted to EVENTUALLY try putting avacs together... and seeing the ad for 5 slings (which I apperently missed out on) reminded me of it.
> 
> ...


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## Moltar (Sep 20, 2009)

This thread on Arachnofreaks is a great read about H. incei. I've linked to it in almost every thread about communal setups i've posted in but it never ceases to amaze...


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## Bill S (Sep 20, 2009)

Sathane said:


> _Holothele incei_ is a great communal tarantula. .....
> 
> As for new world communals, I can't think of any off the top of my head that would be a definite choice.


Just for the record - _Holothele_ is a new world genus.  _H. incei_ comes from Trinidad, and there are other _Holotheles_ in northern South America.

_Heterothele_ comes from Africa, and is another small communal tarantula.


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## Moltar (Sep 20, 2009)

I was just doing some googling and stumbled upon this article on Heterothele gabonensis research in Gabon.  Good stuff there. He talks about their communal tendencies and their different relationships with several species of ant, even their tree of choice! :} :clap: :}


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## DDaake (Sep 20, 2009)

Moltar said:


> I was just doing some googling and stumbled upon this article on Heterothele gabonensis research in Gabon.  Good stuff there. He talks about their communal tendencies and their different relationships with several species of ant, even their tree of choice! :} :clap: :}


thats a good lookin' T and the only get a couple cm? Are these available in the hobby?


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## Anthony Straus (Sep 20, 2009)

DDaake said:


> thats a good lookin' T and the only get a couple cm? Are these available in the hobby?


There were some here in canada not long ago...being sold in batches of 5(?) by the author of the article himself Cédrik Grenier. I'm not sure how active he is on the board anymore...


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## Sathane (Sep 21, 2009)

Yes, awesome thread.  That's Martin and Amanda's (from Tarantula Canada)  _Holothele incei_ communal.  It's been going for a few years now. 



Moltar said:


> This thread on Arachnofreaks is a great read about H. incei. I've linked to it in almost every thread about communal setups i've posted in but it never ceases to amaze...


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## Moltar (Sep 21, 2009)

DDaake said:


> thats a good lookin' T and the only get a couple cm? Are these available in the hobby?


I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that he's referring to body length rather than diagonal leg span there. 2cm is extremely small for a theraphosid. That's like, C. elegans small.


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## Sathane (Sep 21, 2009)

Must be.  Possibly from Europe?



Moltar said:


> I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that he's referring to body length rather than diagonal leg span there. 2cm is extremely small for a theraphosid. That's like, C. elegans small.


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## Moltar (Sep 21, 2009)

I guess. They do things differently over there...


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## EDED (Sep 21, 2009)

kinda related, but define communal

from my experiences with Hysterocrates,,,they are pretty selfish regarding food and housing(burrow system, although thye share) 

so its like tolerating the presence of siblings but when it comes to feeding time its pretty vicious how they fight over it well nobody gets hurt other than the food source but tug of war is very interesting.

but i hear chicken spiders actually hunt together and eat toeghet without trying to steal away? 

anyways, i would love to try out H. villosela one of these days.


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## Bill S (Sep 21, 2009)

EDED said:


> kinda related, but define communal.


Good point.  As you read through the discussions here it's obvious that people have very different interpretations of "communal".  At one end of the spectrum are those who consider keeping several spiders together in a box as communal, at the other end are the ones who only consider truly social species as communal.   I'd lean toward the latter choice.  Another choice would be for multi-species set-ups being a true "community".  

Within the tarantula world there don't appear to be many species that exhibit true social groupings, some that will tolerate the presence of others of their own species, and I think someone posted here recently that they had kept more than one species of pokie in a single cage.  By comparison, there are some species of true spiders that live in social colonies that cooperatively hunt prey, some species that are social within family units until maturity, and some species (like the black widow) that will host several species in a web.


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## Sathane (Sep 21, 2009)

When I say communal, I mean a tarantula that can co-habitate with the same species for a long period of time with very little to no losses.


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## EDED (Sep 22, 2009)

just to be clear i wasnt picking fights with anybody or being a smartarse,,,i thought it was interesting.

because to me I have no idea waht to say about what my Hystero babies are doing,,,soon i will need a bigger enclosure and its impossible to keep a head count daily to report so,,,i dont know.

however seems like other smaller species like Holothele and Heterothele might do better due to size or the room requirement?

i have heard of generations after generations of Hystero living in a big cube tank, who knows what the % of loss is but i think they (and other 'communal' sp.)  are more 'tolerating' than other species and thats what community means to me,,,,sht i dont share food with my next door neighbor, F them but i tolerate them and i dont go steal their stuff or eat their kids ahahahhah


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## Bill S (Sep 22, 2009)

EDED said:


> just to be clear i wasnt picking fights with anybody or being a smartarse,,,i thought it was interesting.


I didn't take it that way (fighting or smartarse).  The point you raised is a good one, and there's obvious confusion/disagreement over it.  And I think discussion on that and related points is productive.

As for keeping spiders (either _Hysterocrates_ or _Holothele_) together - I'd go with _Holothele_ just for the convenience of size.  I have room for a tank big enough to house a colony of _Holothele_.  I don't have room for a comparable colony of _Hysterocrates_.  In either case, though, I would expect a percentage of loss.  In nature there would be some loss.  Even among the truly social spiders, not all babies make it to maturity.  Populations can reach "comfortable densities", and beyond that they either need to disperse or limit the population size in some other manner.  In a cage, dispersal is not an option.  If we set up "community" tanks, we need to either accept the % of losses inherent in that, or reduce population pressures by removing babies periodically.


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## Steve Calceatum (Sep 23, 2009)

syndicate said:


> I would go with one of the Poecilotheria species.That is minus metallica,ornata and striata.Also I will mention that h.incei will eat each other!I think the key to keeping them together may be using a really large tank so they can all kind of create there own territories.
> -Chris


Why not P. striata? Unless you got the $$ to burn, there's no sense in a P. metallica communal, and the P. ornatas end in cannibalism. Both of those Pokies would make sense to not do a communal project with. However, P. striata is one of my favorite Pokies. Not only are they quite beautiful, but mine was calm as can be. Are P. striatas really that territorial as well?


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## Sathane (Sep 24, 2009)

My _Holothele incei_ communal is relatively young but it's set up in a 2.5 gallon tank.  The mother laid her sack in there and I just let them be.  The sac popped at 122 babies, I traded off 60 for roaches.  I counted them about a week ago and had 46.  Still 46 on the last count two nights ago.  The slings are now nearly an inch.



syndicate said:


> Well this is true with Poecilotheria communals yes.But in my reply I was referring to keeping H.incei in a group setting.
> After trying to keep them communally only 3 out of 10 survived,which I believe is due to not a big enough tank.These spiders aren't nearly as social as Poecilotheria either!
> -Chris


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## EDED (Sep 24, 2009)

good point bill,,,for some reason i like these boring burrowing brown spiders,,triple B's aahha,,but cant sell them quick and the going price is cheap too, so i end up keeping almost all of them most of the time i hatch ot Hystero's  and YES the size of the enclosure is a big issue.  i gotta get out of an apt.

Heterothele and Holothele might be better and prettier too with all the decorations you can put in

one day one day..


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## Twistedrayne (Sep 24, 2009)

I've always wondered about keeping different species together. The idea I've been playing around with is getting a big tank set up for both a burrower and an arboreal. I don't know how that would work out, but it sounds interesting. I'm not going to try it of course...Atleast not yet.


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## WelshTan (Sep 24, 2009)

this makes interesting reading for me ... I have recently bought 2 1" P. striata and am awaitng a further 3 P. regalis in the morning to go with my communal project of P. striata's ..... hope I do good... have created a larger enclosure with multiple hides and elevated water bowls ... fingers crossed


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## Bill S (Sep 24, 2009)

EDED said:


> Heterothele and Holothele might be better and prettier too with all the decorations you can put in..


Don't know about _Heterothele_ because I haven't kept any of them yet - but you don't need to worry about decorations in a _Holothele incei_ cage - everything will get shrouded in webs.


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## Endagr8 (Sep 24, 2009)

Sathane said:


> My _Holothele incei_ communal is relatively young but it's set up in a 2.5 gallon tank.  The mother laid her sack in there and I just let them be.  The sac popped at 122 babies, I traded off 60 for roaches.  I counted them about a week ago and had 46.  Still 46 on the last count two nights ago.  The slings are now nearly an inch.


I've _heard_ that they grow faster in communal setups, and your post seems to be a testimony to this theory. I got 10 _H. incei_ slings in July (I think) at 0.5" and they just recently started molting into one-inchers.

When exactly did your sac hatch? Approximately how big is this species at second instar?


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## Flower (Sep 24, 2009)

Avics are usually pretty tolerant of eachother. I had really good luck with mine (three together) untill one was introduced unknowingly with NEMATODES. Yeah, that turned out badly. But had nematodes not happened I am confident they would have remained tolerant of eachother.


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## AbraxasComplex (Sep 25, 2009)

I have had success so far with the following communal settups.


Holothele incei - 3 generations strong.
Heterothele villosella - 8 adults, atleast one on an eggsac.
Heterothele gabonensis - all slings together, but 2 adult females seperate.

Future projects:

Monocentopus balfouri (I have 6 slings)


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## Endagr8 (Sep 25, 2009)

AbraxasComplex said:


> I have had success so far with the following communal settups.
> 
> 
> Holothele incei - 3 generations strong.
> ...


Wow. :drool: 

Can you post some pictures?


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## Sathane (Sep 25, 2009)

The sac hatched out around August 10th.  There is a bit of a variance in size but most are about an inch or so now.  I'd say they were between 1/4" and 1/2" at 2nd instar.

There may be something to that theory but there are probably good reasons for it.  
My regular collection gets fed more on a visual basis.  If the T looks like it needs food, I toss in a feeder.  Due to this method, most of my Ts get fed once every week or ten days.  My communals, however, get a bunch of feeders thrown in every 3 days or so.  I do this to ensure minimal losses as noone should be hungry with the amount of food available but it's pretty much power feeding them.  





Endagr8 said:


> I've _heard_ that they grow faster in communal setups, and your post seems to be a testimony to this theory. I got 10 _H. incei_ slings in July (I think) at 0.5" and they just recently started molting into one-inchers.
> 
> When exactly did your sac hatch? Approximately how big is this species at second instar?


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## EDED (Sep 25, 2009)

Abraxas,

could you also post some pics of the set up,,,dirt then let them fill it with webs or barks and hides to make the surface area larger for them to venture out etc etc?

same goes to other communal keepers, would like to see some shots of your set up

my Hystero's in a tank filled with dirt,,,,burrows made by them, thats it,,,dirt tank and night they come out.


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## t-lover (Sep 25, 2009)

here is an h incei vid not mine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1GXhRIacf8&NR=1


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## Moltar (Sep 25, 2009)

t-lover said:


> here is an h incei vid not mine
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1GXhRIacf8&NR=1



Awww MM incei fall down go boom! Those guys look pretty active. There are a few times in the vid that you can see their teleportation level speed.


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## Sathane (Sep 25, 2009)

Here are some pics of my _Heterothele villosella_ and _Holothele incei_ communals.  _H. villosella_ are in a small Omni Shoebox and the _H. incei_ are in the 2.5 gallon tank.  Counts are at 10 for the _villosella_ communal (no losses) and currently 46 for the _H. incei_.  There was much more webbing in the _incei_ communal until I ripped it apart for the count a few days ago.  The heavy webbing near the main "cave" is very thick and layered.  Below is an intricate network of tubes and tunnels where most of the slings spend most of their time.  The same type of webbing is seen in the _villosella_ communal but they tend to move the webbing out more evenly whereas the _incei_ have the tunnel network concentrated at the main burrow.


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## EDED (Sep 25, 2009)

cool pics thanks


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## AbraxasComplex (Sep 25, 2009)

I just have to finish up at work, then I will post photos of my setups.


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## Jarvis (Oct 8, 2009)

Quick question, has any one had success keeping a communal (tolerant, and sociable community) of any Poecilotheria sp. or P. murinus using the large tank method? and if so what sp.? all of the ones I've seen have started using the small tank method first. Which makes me think that they aren't a true communal sp. but rather a tolarant sp. unlike Holothele sp and Heterothele sp.


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## Sathane (Oct 14, 2009)

I haven't done the _Poecilotheria_ setup yet but am planning on a pretty large one with the sac I currently have in incubation. 

As for _P. murinus_, yes.  I've ran a 5 specimen communal for quite some time but separated after specimens were about 2 inches long.   I currently have a communal of nearly 100 2nd instars in a small tank.  I'll be moving them to a larger setup in a few months and bring the population down to around 45 to see how long the colony can go for.




Jarvis said:


> Quick question, has any one had success keeping a communal (tolerant, and sociable community) of any Poecilotheria sp. or P. murinus using the large tank method? and if so what sp.? all of the ones I've seen have started using the small tank method first. Which makes me think that they aren't a true communal sp. but rather a tolarant sp. unlike Holothele sp and Heterothele sp.


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## Jarvis (Oct 18, 2009)

Sathane said:


> I haven't done the _Poecilotheria_ setup yet but am planning on a pretty large one with the sac I currently have in incubation.
> 
> As for _P. murinus_, yes.  I've ran a 5 specimen communal for quite some time but separated after specimens were about 2 inches long.   I currently have a communal of nearly 100 2nd instars in a small tank.  I'll be moving them to a larger setup in a few months and bring the population down to around 45 to see how long the colony can go for.


When you started your P.murunus set up did you start with a larger tank or did you use a smaller one to began with? I currently don't have a communal setup yet, however I am going to try a P. regalis set up using a egg sac in a 5 gallon tank then eventualy moving it into a 55 gallon, I also am going to try a P.murnis communal with a egg sac and a 5 gallon and eventualy moving them into a 30 gallon, I was just wondering if any one had success using the larger tank first method.


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## Bill S (Oct 18, 2009)

For a while I was interested in setting up a terrarium with a group of _Holothele_ sp "Tachira".  Hadn't actually heard of them being communal, but there was plenty of speculation out there that they'd be similar to _Holothele incei_ in this respect.

Well, they aren't.  Yesterday I finally got the experiment going.  I had raised a bunch of _H._ sp "Tachira" from tiny slings to adulthood in separate containers.  I've placed an individual male with an individual female several times for breeding (so far without results).  And yesterday I set up a 29 gallon long terrarium with lots of hiding places and introduced a male and two females.  My hopes were that with all that room they could at least set up individual territories, even if they weren't as communal as _H. incei_.  And with all the room and hiding places they should be able to escape each other if necessary.

However, the conflicts started almost immediately.  They chased each other, threatened each other, and one of the females got into it with the male and he's now missing two legs on one side.  Needless to say - I've separated them and placed them each back in their original individual kritter keepers.  

So....  now I'm deciding what to put in the 29 long.  I do have some OBT slings, so that's a possibility.


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## Mattyb (Oct 18, 2009)

I would like to think I had a communal setup with a male and female A.avic in a 10gal. Would like to do it again sometime in the future.


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## Jarvis (Oct 19, 2009)

BillS

Thanks for the info I also thought of doing a communal H. tachira tank, I think it might work better if they all came from the same sac and you introduced them when they are slings. Not saying it would work, but you might have better success. They may also work better if you use the small tank first method, however they are Holotheles and I would think using the large tank first would be fine, but like I said I'm not saying it will or should work.


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## Bill S (Oct 19, 2009)

Jarvis said:


> BillS
> 
> Thanks for the info I also thought of doing a communal H. tachira tank, I think it might work better if they all came from the same sac and you introduced them when they are slings. Not saying it would work, but you might have better success. They may also work better if you use the small tank first method, however they are Holotheles and I would think using the large tank first would be fine, but like I said I'm not saying it will or should work.


If they only get along as slings, then all you have is a time bomb.  A temporary colony at best.  I have no doubt that hatching a bunch of slings from one egg sac would allow you to keep the babies together for a while - but that's true of a lot of spiders.  But for a truly communal set-up adults need to be able to live together.  

I've heard a person or two express the idea that _Holothele_ sp Tachira is different enough from _Holothele incei_ that they shouldn't be in the same genus.  I haven't looked at the key morphological characters to see what the differences are - but at the superficial level, they really do look different.

During the summer I passed up on two opportunities to get groups of _Holothele incei_ and _Heterothele villosella_.  Now I'm kicking myself.


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## paul fleming (Oct 19, 2009)

Jarvis said:


> Quick question, has any one had success keeping a communal (tolerant, and sociable community) of any Poecilotheria sp. or P. murinus using the large tank method? and if so what sp.? all of the ones I've seen have started using the small tank method first. Which makes me think that they aren't a true communal sp. but rather a tolarant sp. unlike Holothele sp and Heterothele sp.


I have one P.fasciata commune that started about 8-9 months ago as slings and they are now juvie/SA......I had to get one male out because he was twice the size as the rest but still have 5 left in that one and they are fine.
Also have another P.fasciata commune going but had to slim that one down from 6 to 2 because I want to breed them.Still have the AF and MM together and they are fine.
Also have a 6 P.rufilata commune going which I think will work out very well.....these seem very communal to me,more so the the P.fasciata in fact.
The most important with any commune is to limit the space they have so you "force" them to live together.
Poecilotherialive  live communally in the wild


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## Jarvis (Oct 19, 2009)

spit said:


> I have one P.fasciata commune that started about 8-9 months ago as slings and they are now juvie/SA......I had to get one male out because he was twice the size as the rest but still have 5 left in that one and they are fine.
> Also have another P.fasciata commune going but had to slim that one down from 6 to 2 because I want to breed them.Still have the AF and MM together and they are fine.
> Also have a 6 P.rufilata commune going which I think will work out very well.....these seem very communal to me,more so the the P.fasciata in fact.
> The most important with any commune is to limit the space they have so you "force" them to live together.
> Poecilotherialive  live communally in the wild


sorry about the confusion I am not saying that they are not communal or highly tolorant of each other. I have seen many communal Poecilotheria sp. tanks on this site as well as others, I was just commenting on since they seem to have to be forced to live together (ie using the small tank method first) instead of chosing to live together like H. incei, H. Villosella, M. Balfouri or even the chicken spider that they may not be as communal or as tolerant.


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