# Tarantula Eggs



## Sathane (Apr 5, 2009)

*P. Murinus Eggs!*

This morning around 3AM, I pulled the egg sac from my P. Murinus which was mated on March 6th.  She holed herself up in her hide with very thick webbing on March 21st.  I've tried a couple of times to 'check in' on the sac but mommy wasn't too co-operative with that idea each time I tried so I figured I'd pull it now.  

I have a few questions I'm hoping someone can answer:
- How fragile are these eggs?  When removing them from the egg sac, some where stuck to it so I gently 'massaged' them out being careful not to put too much pressure on the eggs (none of them burst) but, when they came free, some did fall about 1cm - 1 inch onto the paper towel in the incubator.  Also, when rolling them around in the incubator they tend to roll very fast and crash into each other.  Is there any danger in killing the developing babies with such jostling?
- I'm not sure when exactly the egg sac was made, as momma webbed herself into her hide, so I'm assuming it would have been shortly afterwards (1-5 days?) making this eggsac 10 - 15 days old.  About how long until eggs with legs?  From what I've read I was thinking about another 2 weeks or so. 

If you could also offer any suggestions, comments, or observations with regards to the pics below that would be great. 

I think the eggs look healthy and viable but I only have very limited experience, at best, when dealing with eggs.

Here are those pics:

1 - Mommy greeting me at the door.  Tried to hold her at bay with a straw while I tried to grab the sac.  After 20 minutes of this I managed to get her out of the enclosure so I was able to pull the sac.  She had it anchored pretty securely to the inside of that flower pot.  The only casualty during this was the straw which was the subject of a few short tug of wars and the recipient of several nasty bites.
2 - Taking a peek at the eggs.  All look health and round. 
3 - First full inspection.  No bad eggs.
4 - Sac is wrapped back up and set on some dry paper towel for the rest of the night (It's about 4AM then).


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## Sathane (Apr 5, 2009)

More pics from later this morning (around 11AM):

1 - Trying to get some light to shine through the egg.  
2 - The eggs set up in their proper incubator.  Wet paper towels in the main container with dry paper towel in the bin the eggs are in.  
3 - Close up of the clutch.  Counted 105 eggs. 
4 - Another close up of the clutch.


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## sparular (Apr 5, 2009)

To me, the eggs look healthy so far. I'm paranoid about fungus so I usually only touch them with sterile instruments (not fingers). Many people use coffee filters since paper towels are not as smooth and rolling the eggs is harder. Try to roll them around gently each day or twice a day to mimic the mother's turning of the sac and so they don't stick.
   The eggs are pretty fragile. If one sticks, watch out. Dislodging it could pop it and then the resulting goo could make other eggs stick and subsequently break. I sometimes keep mine in several batches to contain contamination and minimize collateral damage from a broken egg (one incubator, but several small cups lined with paper).


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## Sathane (Apr 5, 2009)

sparular said:


> To me, the eggs look healthy so far. I'm paranoid about fungus so I usually only touch them with sterile instruments (not fingers). Many people use coffee filters since paper towels are not as smooth and rolling the eggs is harder. Try to roll them around gently each day or twice a day to mimic the mother's turning of the sac and so they don't stick.


Good point.  I'll use a clean set of forceps to move them around from now on.  
Would the mother have been turning the egg sac at all in this case?  It was very securely anchored to the bottom of the flower pot.  Even after getting her out of the enclosure it took a good 10 minutes to remove it.



sparular said:


> The eggs are pretty fragile. If one sticks, watch out. Dislodging it could pop it and then the resulting goo could make other eggs stick and subsequently break. I sometimes keep mine in several batches to contain contamination and minimize collateral damage from a broken egg (one incubator, but several small cups lined with paper).


Right now no eggs are sticking to each other.  Some are in contact right now but they aren't bonded and separate easily.  So am I correct in assuming that they are okay as long as they don't pop?  I was just worried that shaking them up too much would scramble the egg, so to speak, since some did fall from a height of about an inch when dislodging them from the sac.  My experiences with eggs are more with reptiles and a lot of movement can kill them easily. 

I feel sorry for the mother now.  She looks visibly upset at losing the sac.  About an hour ago she was walking around her enclosure like she lost something and now she's sitting where the sac used to be with her knees over her carapace.    Poor girl.  Offered her a big juicy roach but she's not interested.  Maybe her perceived sorrow is just a figment of my imagination or me feeling guilty for taking it from her.


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## kc7wdg (Apr 5, 2009)

stick a cotton ball in the sac and stitch it back up and give it to her then.


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## Sathane (Apr 5, 2009)

That's a great idea!

Have their been any known issues of T mothers getting sick due to some sort of depression from having a sac removed?

Thanks.



kc7wdg said:


> stick a cotton ball in the sac and stitch it back up and give it to her then.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Sathane (Apr 6, 2009)

Just took a look at those eggs and most still look perfect (round and full), however, there were about 5 that started to appear 'wrinkled' and not quite as full as the others.  When giving the eggs a little shake, most of these wrinkles eggs didn't move as easily as the others.  I've picked these out and put them in a different incubator.  Are these damaged?


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## Draiman (Apr 6, 2009)

Sathane said:


> That's a great idea!
> 
> Have their been any known issues of T mothers getting sick due to some sort of depression from having a sac removed?
> 
> Thanks.


Spiders don't have the mental capacity to become "depressed" - do they? Anyway I have a female Murinus as well which I'm planning to breed. Your thread has been a good read.


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## Sathane (Apr 6, 2009)

I didn't think so but was hoping someone could comment.  She really did look upset though.  Maybe just from the long fight she had with a straw.  This morning she's eating a huge roach so she looks like she may have gotten over it.  Hoping for a second clutch now. 

I'm still kind of worried about the eggs that fell a short distance to the paper towel (now they are in a  coffee filter), especially now that I'm starting to see a few of them look less full than the others.



Gavin said:


> Spiders don't have the mental capacity to become "depressed" - do they? Anyway I have a female Murinus as well which I'm planning to breed. Your thread has been a good read.


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## Sathane (Apr 6, 2009)

How robust are these eggs?  Are they okay as long as they don't pop?

I've just removed a sac from a P. Murinus and while removing some of the eggs from the sac the fell up to an inch onto the paper towels in the incubator (none of them burst).  Just wondering if this is something to worry about as some eggs appear less 'full' than they did the other day.  I'm not sure if these are the ones that fell though.

This is my first T clutch and I just want to make sure everything is alright.

Thanks.


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## DFox (Apr 6, 2009)

Sathane said:


> It's on the first page because I resurrected it with an update on the status of the mother - it was on the third page before that.
> 
> The other thread asked the question twice (well, once and then referred to iot again in my last post there) and got no answers so I thought I'd give it a thread of it's own.
> 
> ...


Not really much of an input, although of all the videos I've seen dealing with eggs they do seem pretty sturdy. They would have to be because the mother in the wild rolls them around so they don't get stuck to each other and get uniform humidity to all of them. A 1 inch falls seems negligible for a T egg, especially on a paper towel.

The reason I made that comment on moderation is because I have already received 2 warnings on these boards and I've only been here ~3 months, that's never happened with any other forum I've ever been on. I don't even have 100 posts!


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## xhexdx (Apr 6, 2009)

I'm going to side with DFox on this one.

Either way, eggs should be fine.


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## Talkenlate04 (Apr 6, 2009)

The eggs were not clumped together? Hmm Interesting.


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## Sathane (Apr 6, 2009)

Makes sense.  Thanks. 



DFox said:


> Not really much of an input, although of all the videos I've seen dealing with eggs they do seem pretty sturdy. They would have to be because the mother in the wild rolls them around so they don't get stuck to each other and get uniform humidity to all of them. A 1 inch falls seems negligible for a T egg, especially on a paper towel.


I know exactly how you feel.  I got an infraction (no points though) on my second or third day on here and still am not 100% sure as to the reason.  I think I posted a comment in a 'discussion' forum but I don't know.  I agree with your comment (moderation is pretty strict here).



DFox said:


> The reason I made that comment on moderation is because I have already received 2 warnings on these boards and I've only been here ~3 months, that's never happened with any other forum I've ever been on. I don't even have 100 posts!


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## Sathane (Apr 6, 2009)

They were in a bundle in the egg sac but most were stuck to the sac itself rather than each other.  Some were mildly 'sticky' towards each other but those came off very easily onto the paper towels.  
The ones I was worried about were stuck to the sac so I sort of rolled them off using very light pressure with my finger and they dropped onto the paper towel.  After doing this I got worried as I thought maybe the impact, how ever light it was, might hurt the developing babies.

I think DFox and xhexdx might be right in that they are pretty tough since the mother regularly mixes things.
I'm just worried as all eggs appeared perfect, to me anyways, when I removed them from the sac but some of them now look slightly wrinkled as if they've lost moisture.  The conditions in the incubator are around 80F and 80-85% RH currently.
I appreciate anything you might add here, Ryan. 



Talkenlate04 said:


> The eggs were not clumped together? Hmm Interesting.


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## Talkenlate04 (Apr 6, 2009)

You should have left the sac alone when you removed it. This species does not rotate their eggs they stay clumped together inside the sac and hatch. The little ones below hatched and fell out of the clump unassisted.


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## Sathane (Apr 6, 2009)

Talkenlate04 said:


> You should have left the sac alone when you removed it. This species does not rotate their eggs they stay clumped together inside the sac and hatch. The little ones below hatched and fell out of the clump unassisted.


That's odd.  When I opened the sac I guess you could say there was somewhat of a clump (shown in Pic 2 below) but they definitely weren't 'bonded' together as they kind of fell apart for the most part when I opened up the sac.  It was more like they were stuck to the sac then to each other.

Will they be okay in the setup I've got them in (Pic 3 - except I've replaced the paper towel in the egg bin with a coffee filter) or should I wrap them up in something?  The sac is destroyed so I can't put them back in there but I could probably make something out of paper towels - if that would even work.

The eggs I thought were shivelling haven't shrunk any more since I last saw them so I'll leave them be in their incubator and see if their condition improves (if it's bad in the first place).

Thanks for all your help.


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## Talkenlate04 (Apr 6, 2009)

They should be ok in the setup you have now, just don't worry about rotating them. What day did you pull the sac?


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## Sathane (Apr 6, 2009)

Well, that's a relief.  Thanks.

I pulled the sac on Saturday so I'm guessing the sac was up to 15 days old but as young as 10 days on Saturday.  The mother webbed up her hide pretty thickly and I didn't want to disturb her at that time because I thought she'd eat the sac.

If I see once that are less than plump, should I pull them out right away or just leave them be until they are completely shriveled?



Talkenlate04 said:


> They should be ok in the setup you have now, just don't worry about rotating them. What day did you pull the sac?


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## Talkenlate04 (Apr 6, 2009)

I would watch for mold but if you don't see any on the suspect eggs just leave them alone and wait to see what happens. 
Just keep in mind the more you mess with them the more trouble could be caused. You should know in a few more days if they are fertile. I do believe my eggs were eggs with legs on day 17. It could be a bit longer if your temps are cooler time will tell.


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## Sathane (Apr 6, 2009)

Sounds good.  Thank you for the information.  I hope shifting around over the last few days hasn't hurt any of them by I won't worry about it - what's done is done.  I'll leave them be now and hope for the best.

My spider room temps usually fluctuate from 75-85F - usually in the higher end though.  Hopefully I'll see some legs in about a week. 

Thanks again.




Talkenlate04 said:


> I would watch for mold but if you don't see any on the suspect eggs just leave them alone and wait to see what happens.
> Just keep in mind the more you mess with them the more trouble could be caused. You should know in a few more days if they are fertile. I do believe my eggs were eggs with legs on day 17. It could be a bit longer if your temps are cooler time will tell.


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## Endagr8 (Apr 6, 2009)

Talkenlate04 said:


> This species does not rotate their eggs they stay clumped together inside the sac and hatch.


...I think someone's got a broken OBT mommy. jk  

Has anyone else documented this, or is it just from your experience? ...seems pretty significant to me.


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## Talkenlate04 (Apr 6, 2009)

Endagr8 said:


> ...I think someone's got a broken OBT mommy. jk
> 
> Has anyone else documented this, or is it just from your experience? ...seems pretty significant to me.


Not significant at all and yes this is well documented by many others. They make a suspended egg sac that is not rotated. There are a few other species that do the same thing.


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## Sathane (Apr 6, 2009)

I was actually wondering how she mixed up the eggs since she had it very securely anchored to the flower pot hide in her enclosure.  I thought she just 'massaged' it a bit from time to time...



Talkenlate04 said:


> Not significant at all and yes this is well documented by many others. They make a suspended egg sac that is not rotated. There are a few other species that do the same thing.


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## Yanose (Apr 7, 2009)

out of curiosity which other sp. do this with their eggs.


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## Sathane (Apr 11, 2009)

No pic just yet since I'm just about to head out of the weekend but wanted to throw a quick update in here.

Several of the eggs have popped legs!  about 25% of them appear to have gone bad though.  Next time I'll leave the sac with mommy until the slings emerge.


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## wedge07 (Apr 11, 2009)

Congratulations Sathane!  Kind of sux that not all of them were good but you still got some babies on the way.


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## upwith inverts! (Apr 11, 2009)

Using my sometimes fuzzy logic, and some books, I'd assume any T in the subfamily Harpactirinae would do that non rotating thing. The sub family includes Pterinochilus/P. Murinus (the tarantula species in question), Ceratogyrus and Eucratoscelus.


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## c'est ma (Apr 12, 2009)

Sathane said:


> No pic just yet since I'm just about to head out of the weekend but wanted to throw a quick update in here.
> 
> Several of the eggs have popped legs!  about 25% of them appear to have gone bad though.  Next time I'll leave the sac with mommy until the slings emerge.


Congrats!  I've never bred any T, so following your first experience is most exciting.  Looking forward to future updates!


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## Sathane (Apr 12, 2009)

Thanks. Yes, unfortunately I think it was my error that caused it too but now I know to be more careful and leave the sac with mommy for a while longer.



wedge07 said:


> Congratulations Sathane!  Kind of sux that not all of them were good but you still got some babies on the way.


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## Sathane (Apr 12, 2009)

When I noticed how stuck to the hide this sac was I knew they couldn't possible be rotating the sac but I thought she at least massaged it to mix it up a bit.  Apparently, this isn't so and they just kind of sit on it.  Now I'll know for next time.



upwith inverts! said:


> Using my sometimes fuzzy logic, and some books, I'd assume any T in the subfamily Harpactirinae would do that non rotating thing. The sub family includes Pterinochilus/P. Murinus (the tarantula species in question), Ceratogyrus and Eucratoscelus.


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## Sathane (Apr 12, 2009)

Very exciting indeed.  I've learned quite a bit in the last week or so.  Thanks to everyone for all their tips. I'm out of town until tomorrow so I couldn't see how many more had popped legs this morning but I can't wait to get home and see my babies. 



c'est ma said:


> Congrats!  I've never bred any T, so following your first experience is most exciting.  Looking forward to future updates!


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## JensWest (Jul 19, 2012)

Yanose said:


> out of curiosity which other sp. do this with their eggs.


_Stromatopelma calceatum_.
I have a sack from my female in the incubator right now.


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