# Feeding vertebrates to invertebrates…choose your side!



## Hellion299 (Aug 12, 2011)

So this is one I have wanted to get some opinions on for awhile now. Personally I like to feed my tarantulas a pinky or fuzzy a month after a fresh molt and then 15-ish days later give them a 2nd one. I feel that it gets them nice and plump for breeding and makes them less aggressive towards males. I compare this argument to the fact that me (being a 6’3, 220lb male) probably would attack, kill and devour a pizza delivery guy then steal and eat all of his pizzas if I was forced to survive on carrots for a week. Lol. Feeding tarantulas nothing but crickets is just like that! In the wild these guys get to feast on all kinds of tasty little critters! I have heard the whole chitin vs. calcium argument but come on, seriously! Give me some fresh opinions……


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## Hobo (Aug 12, 2011)

Well what if I gutload my crickets with pizzas instead if carrots?

Reactions: Like 2


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## paassatt (Aug 12, 2011)

My opinion is that boards have a plethora of threads concerning feeding verts to inverts, and the pros and cons have been debated and beaten to death, so we don't need another thread/poll concerning the topic. 

Opinion given.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Eagercannibals (Aug 12, 2011)

I would have to say no, there is no benefit for the tarantula eating vertebrates such as pinkies or mice. Some people like to give their tarantulas a varied diet which can be done with other invertebrates such as roaches. Honestly it is just a hassle for them to eat vertebrates, all the fur and bones and they do not require the calcium or digest the bones. So it just becomes an expensive meal.


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## xStainD (Aug 12, 2011)

Eagercannibals said:


> I would have to say no, there is no benefit for the tarantula eating vertebrates such as pinkies or mice. Some people like to give their tarantulas a varied diet which can be done with other invertebrates such as roaches. Honestly it is just a hassle for them to eat vertebrates, all the fur and bones and they do not require the calcium or digest the bones. So it just becomes an expensive meal.


But do we have any tangible proof of this? I've read numerous threads on this subject and have never once seen a scientific study or research paper saying that calcium is harmful to T's (if you know of one please share). I know that some people claim feeding rodents on a regular basis can cause molting problems, but is there any real evidence other than hearsay? In the wild tarantulas will eat anything they can overpower, snakes, lizards, mice, etc. all of which have bones made up of calcium. Some large T's (T. Blondi for instance) probably take down rodents much more often then you'd think considering most insects would be an unsatisfying meal for a adult. Maybe the reason this spp. often has molting problems in captivity is from a _lack_ of calcium in their diet? I'm not saying this is the case, just a thought.

Also, I don't think a rodent would be any more difficult for a T to eat. If anything the soft skin of a rodent would be easier to digest than the exoskeleton of an insect.

P.S. Im not trying to bash you or anything, just offering my unbiased opinion (although I personally wouldn't feed any of my T's rodents just because it would break my heart throwing a mouse in with a T )


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## Romantis (Aug 12, 2011)

The soft skin of a rodent might be easier to digest than the exoskeleton of an insect, but the bones are definitely not easier. They don't digest at all and end up as fecal waste. I'd say the bones alone make a rodent much more difficult to eat and digest than any invertebrate.


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## xStainD (Aug 12, 2011)

Romantis said:


> The soft skin of a rodent might be easier to digest than the exoskeleton of an insect, but the bones are definitely not easier. They don't digest at all and end up as fecal waste. I'd say the bones alone make a rodent much more difficult to eat and digest than any invertebrate.


Care to elaborate on this? I've seen a buddy's G. Rosea eat a pinkie mouse (not a pleasant sight btw) and there was absolutely nothing left afterwards. Maybe this is different with the stronger bones of a more mature mouse?


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## Hellion299 (Aug 12, 2011)

xSatinD, now that was awesome! Lol.

See I have always heard the same thing, "don't do that your tarantula will get stuck in a molt!" But I have personally NEVER experienced this problem. I also feel that if you continue to feed a tarantula small prey items like crickets then they don't grow nearly as large. I have noticed that the majority of HEALTHY WC tarantulas seem to be bigger then ones that are captive bred and fed crickets their whole life’s, hints the small MMs you see on the boards at times. Thoughts?


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## ranchulas (Aug 12, 2011)

Due to the fact that Tarantulas will tend to eat a large variety of prey items in the wild I personally don't see anything wrong with an occasional feeding. Has there been any scientific proof to back up the claims of people who state feeding mice and so on to T's is harmful??


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## Boanerges (Aug 12, 2011)

To answer the question in the poll - No. Never have and never will.


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## zonbonzovi (Aug 12, 2011)

Crickets are omnivores & eat all manner of things in the wild.  You could conceivably feed them pinkies or pinkies fed on pizza or civet cat eyes in a Kobe beef demi-glace, for that matter.  

Personally, I just find it easier to feed roaches raised on an array of bargain produce, stale cereals & cat food for those inverts that will eat them.  Very rarely will I have a carnivorous invert that wont.  

Frozen mammals are more expensive,  infrequently available(here, anyway) & often too bulky for the invert to finish.  When the invert is done, we're left with a stinking pile.    

Some inverts thrive on verts.  I saw many Dolomedes capturing small fish in S. Florida when I was last there.  Burying beetles eat animal carcasses.  Some wasps will eat the same, when available.  Let's not forget about bed bugs, lice & mosquitoes.  Mammal parasitoids of all stripes.  

We have anecdotal evidence via the hobby that gets rehashed & parroted as gospel truth and applied to what, 900+ species that come from sometimes drasticly different habitats?!  Does that seem insane to anyone else?

This is why I voted, "don't care".  If you feel you must feed your invert canned spam stuffed turducken with foie gras gravy, at least document it diligently so we can all refer back to it.


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## Ben Oliver (Aug 12, 2011)

i have heard the same thing with people feeding monitors mice and rats. as long as you don't use the mammals as primary feeders you sould be fine. i feed my T's a fuzzie every other month just to give them a big meal. and for the smaller T's i use a pinkie. everyone has been molting fine. and if someone can tell me or show me i will continue to feed them the same way. and my monitors i feed them 3 or 4 mice each week or a rat hopper. that is one feeding for them, they are over 36" long. and the rest of the time i feed them roaches that i breed.


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## T Enthusiast (Aug 12, 2011)

There is only one genus that I would consider feeding vertebrates too, and that is Theraphosa, and even then only once they approached full size(that is to say 8-9 inches and beyond). I think it is highly unlikely that in the wild, Theraphosa would go an entire lifetime without encountering vertebrate prey, especially in an environment like the amazon which is the most biologically diverse terrestrial ecosystem on the planet. That is to say, that I think we could assume that in the wild, Theraphosa would consume several vertebrates per year. 

That being said, i believe that feeding them vertebrates in captivity is still risky and dangerous, because I believe the oxygen requirements this species has once they get exceptionally large already puts them at a higher risk for molting problems. I think if we can assume that Theraphosa certainly consume several vertebrates per year(i'm talking fully mature adult females), than I think we can assume that the molting problems that are epidemic in the hobby are not so in the wild. If that was the case, I think we'd see fewer and fewer large Theraphosa sp. in the wild. (This isn't the case, everyone knows that large T.blondi, apophysis, and stirmi are imported wc -_-) They'd all be dieing from molt problems. I think BSBlondi was really onto something in his article on the T. blondi about oxygen requirements, and I think keeping this genus in a super-oxygenated environment would allow for a regular inclusion of vertebrate prey items into the diet without many problems. I don't logically think mother nature would allow this species to survive if they died from bad molts everytime they ate a snake or a mouse. On that note, I'm going to someday see if I can build an oxygen enclosure of some kind specifically to meet the oxygen requirements I believe this species needs to live a full and healthy life. (that's where I'm going with this hobby)

To sum up an already long point, I think Theraphosa can be fed vertebrates, but I would highly discourage it in captivity. They are already at risk for molting problems, I don't see need to further cause any danger.


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## Hellion299 (Aug 12, 2011)

Nice zonbonzovi! Lol.

I personally witnessed a centipede in Azle Texas feeding on a large field mouse in the wild. It seemed to be enjoying it's self. Lol.

---------- Post added 08-12-2011 at 03:53 PM ----------

Wow T Enthusiast, I will have to take a look at that article. Any problem I have ever seen personally as far as Theraphosa goes was due to moister. Keepers get lazy and keep their "blondi" as dry as a rose hair then wonder why it dried out. When I think Amazon and Theraphosa I think swampy, humid conditions. For me that seems to do just fine. Good ventilation to prevent mold and stagnant air and plenty of vertebrates to grow them big and strong! Lol. No molt problems here........


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## RichRollin (Aug 12, 2011)

I don't see a problem so long as you aren't make vertebrates a primary source of food.  I dont use pinkies or fuzzies anymore because an adult female dubia is basically the same size (and a lot cheaper) but when I did I never noticed any issues with molting or anything else.

I mean, go to Rick West's site and see how many pics there are of wild T's eating various vertebrate prey.  That fact alone tells you it's probably fine on a limited basis.


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## BobGrill (Aug 12, 2011)

I don't see a problem either. I think of vertebrates as an ocassional treat for Ts, not a staple food source. Personally I think many people overeact to it a bit much.


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## Hellion299 (Aug 12, 2011)

+1 BobGrill


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## matthias (Aug 12, 2011)

I voted Zombies!

I have fed verts to inverts, I don't now. I have never bought into the the issues caused by calcium (now it is molting it used to be fang breakage)
I have two very good reasons that are completely provable and undeniable why I don't. 

1) Vendors in my area will often spray their rodents for mites. This is not harmful to the herps they are normally selling two, but deadly to Tarantulas. I have seen the results of a dozen treated pinkies. A dozen dead tarantulas. This is a common practice, that I would not trust someone saying they don't do it, because someone else in their supply chain might.

2) The left overs are messy and stink! Sorry but I just don't want my house smelling like a bunch rotting, half eaten mice. And they attract flies like there is no tomorrow. 

The nutrition of a roach that is well feed is so much better why would you even consider it. If you want to fatten a breeder up, try horned worms. Even after they pupate they are like a milk shake for breeders. For variety, you can mix in crickets, or supper worms. 

If you must feed vert, amphibians are much better for them than mammals.


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## Hellion299 (Aug 12, 2011)

Yay for Team Zombies!

Great information matthias! I could defiantly see how mice being treated with chemicals could be harmful for a T, which is why I breed my own rodent feeders. As for the "dead mice bolus stick". It is true I DO have to remove the mouse bolus promptly to avoid a pretty foul smell. Lol. I have never heard of a horned worm though, you got a scientific name for them?


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## Echolalia (Aug 12, 2011)

Hobo said:


> Well what if I gutload my crickets with pizzas instead if carrots?


I lol'd.

But yeah, I'd never feed vertebrates to my Ts, I'm too nervous of them getting injured in some way


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## Hellion299 (Aug 12, 2011)

Echolalia, I thought that is what the back side of our 12" steel tongs are for.......


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## matthias (Aug 20, 2011)

Hellion299 said:


> Yay for Team Zombies!
> 
> Great information matthias! I could defiantly see how mice being treated with chemicals could be harmful for a T, which is why I breed my own rodent feeders. As for the "dead mice bolus stick". It is true I DO have to remove the mouse bolus promptly to avoid a pretty foul smell. Lol. I have never heard of a horned worm though, you got a scientific name for them?


I didn't find the latin for them, but they are also called Tobacco Hornworms

http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/insect/05517.html


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## BobGrill (Aug 20, 2011)

If you feed vertebrates to your Ts the calcium police will track you down.


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## pnshmntMMA (Aug 20, 2011)

none of my Ts are big enough yet, but when my LP is, i honestly doubt ill feed verts. its just not worth the risk of having the prey injure the T after all the work put into keeping them healthy. just my .02, id be pissed of a mouse bit my T. so probly gonna stick to bugs, and annoying neighbors as food sources. this thread is like the AR vs AK thread on gun forums, both have pros and cons, and its been beaten to death.


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## xhexdx (Aug 20, 2011)

What is the new way to comment on things now?

Oh, right:

Stupid thread is stupid.

OP asks for fresh opinions, but argues with and agrees with responses.



Romantis said:


> The soft skin of a rodent might be easier to digest than the exoskeleton of an insect, but the bones are definitely not easier. They don't digest at all and end up as fecal waste. I'd say the bones alone make a rodent much more difficult to eat and digest than any invertebrate.


Um, what?

There is absolutely *no need* to feed a vertebrate to an invertebrate.  None.


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## BobGrill (Aug 20, 2011)

xhexdx said:


> What is the new way to comment on things now?
> 
> Oh, right:
> 
> ...


There might be no need, but unless you're using live mice I'd say the risks aren't too big.


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## skar (Aug 20, 2011)

No need to so why do it .


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## Mojo Jojo (Aug 20, 2011)

Tarantulas don't need to eat mice. Pictures and videos of spiders eating rodents disgust me. People who feed rodents to their spiders for entertainment value disgust me. If you are breeding mice and have an overabundance of pinkies and you toss some to your spiders so you don't get overwhelmed with more adult mice than you can deal with, whatever. If your spider dies because it got sick from eating the rodent or because the rodent bit it, then please tell Karma I said hi. Oh, and don't come here and start an emo thread about how sad you are because a mouse killed your spider. That mouse didn't kill your spider. You killed your spider.


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## BobGrill (Aug 20, 2011)

Mojo Jojo said:


> Tarantulas don't need to eat mice. Pictures and videos of spiders eating rodents disgust me. People who feed rodents to their spiders for entertainment value disgust me. If you are breeding mice and have an overabundance of pinkies and you toss some to your spiders so you don't get overwhelmed with more adult mice than you can deal with, whatever. If your spider dies because it got sick from eating the rodent or because the rodent bit it, then please tell Karma I said hi. Oh, and don't come here and start an emo thread about how sad you are because a mouse killed your spider. That mouse didn't kill your spider. You killed your spider.


Can you say "overeaction?" Did you even bother to read my post?


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## Mojo Jojo (Aug 20, 2011)

BobGrill said:


> Can you say "overeaction?" Did you even bother to read my post?


My response is to the topic in general, not to any particular post.


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## Merfolk (Aug 21, 2011)

I do feed vertebrates, and some of my Ts mostly eat that. Fact is, where I live crickets are very small and other insect feeders that don't burrow are illegal or overpriced. I can go with superworms for large Ts sometimes but it's not a staple either. As for the results over 6 years, I lost no Ts save for the bunch that froze during a power outage in mid winter last year ( I was away). Fed them frogs (never had nematodes, cross fingers) but those sometimes got ignored since they remain still most of the time, only my swamp dwellers would constantly go ape for them. Mice are the favorite of my large Pokies along with anoles. 

Anole is the vertebrate prey that got digested the fastest, speaking from experience. The T doesn't get bloated for weeks like when fed a mouse and slims down noticeably within 2 weeks. They are some's favorites but are a bit pricey; mice are used for long lasting fattening like prior to a long absence or else!  Each of my 6"+ has +/-2 mice a year, never larger than a hopper. Those die fast and I totaly dislike the sight of a squeeking bacon dance (didn't happen much, lucky...) that happens when a mice too large got bit out of a vital area. Sometimes, I switch mice for other preys. For my smaller Ts, well I caught several of those black large crickets that you see on very hot days and am starting a colony so the hatchlings will feed my slings and the adults my juvies... I wish we had those gigantic locusts they have in Europe...


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## Hellion299 (Aug 21, 2011)

Good stuff Merfolk! I have found Anoles to be a great feeder as well, never tried frogs- could be interesting. : )


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## shining (Aug 21, 2011)

paassatt said:


> My opinion is that boards have a plethora of threads concerning feeding verts to inverts, and the pros and cons have been debated and beaten to death, so we don't need another thread/poll concerning the topic.
> 
> Opinion given.


agreed.
i feed my inverts humans.


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## DamoK21 (Aug 21, 2011)

I feed mine insects, lizards, and mice because it happens in the wild

And because it happens in the wild, i also let my MM's cross the roads and get ran over, and because it happens in the wild, i run and walk past there enclosures, while killing the odd female because i pretend to be scared of them, I also throw stones at there homes, just for fun, because it happens in the wild. Ill even flood enclosures, because sudden rain storms happen in the wild, iv imported the tarantula wasp, and let my spiders be stung and eggs layed on them, because it happens in the wild...

And because i can be botherd to take note my home is not the wild, i read up on nutrition for the spiders, and because i can be botherd to research what it takes to make up the spider's exo skeliton, i feed my T's the food they need, and because i can be bothered to research, my spiders ae happy and healthy. And because iv done this, im not stupid enough to give them somthing that would cause them to be at risk. And because its not just the calcium, and there other aspects to it, such as wrong proteins, and fats, i know not to feed them rodents and lizards or birds.

Reactions: Like 1


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## BobGrill (Aug 21, 2011)

DamoK21 said:


> I feed mine insects, lizards, and mice because it happens in the wild
> 
> And because it happens in the wild, i also let my MM's cross the roads and get ran over, and because it happens in the wild, i run and walk past there enclosures, while killing the odd female because i pretend to be scared of them, I also throw stones at there homes, just for fun, because it happens in the wild. Ill even flood enclosures, because sudden rain storms happen in the wild, iv imported the tarantula wasp, and let my spiders be stung and eggs layed on them, because it happens in the wild...
> 
> And because i can be botherd to take note my home is not the wild, i read up on nutrition for the spiders, and because i can be botherd to research what it takes to make up the spider's exo skeliton, i feed my T's the food they need, and because i can be bothered to research, my spiders ae happy and healthy. And because iv done this, im not stupid enough to give them somthing that would cause them to be at risk. And because its not just the calcium, and there other aspects to it, such as wrong proteins, and fats, i know not to feed them rodents and lizards or birds.


Congratulations, another overeaction.


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## coco (Aug 22, 2011)

I'm feeding mine mice, grasshoppers, roaches, crickets and even guppyfish from time to time.


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## DamoK21 (Aug 22, 2011)

hardly comming from somone who belives there home is the wild...


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## Hellion299 (Aug 23, 2011)

Someone needs to pull their knickers out of their epigastric furrow and relax a bit...

---------- Post added 08-22-2011 at 11:09 PM ----------

Speaking of furrows, does this look violated to anyone?


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## BobGrill (Aug 23, 2011)

Hellion299 said:


> Someone needs to pull their knickers out of their epigastric furrow and relax a bit...
> 
> ---------- Post added 08-22-2011 at 11:09 PM ----------
> 
> Speaking of furrows, does this look violated to anyone?


This is not the right place to post that discussion.

Damok21 you really need to chill out. What people feed to their Ts is their business not yours. So enough with the speeches please, "and because this, and because that, and because."


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## xhexdx (Aug 23, 2011)

Bob, 

Did the OP not *ask* for opinions regarding what to feed?


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## Shell (Aug 23, 2011)

Relax, Bob. 

The OP asked for opinions and this is a discussion. Just because people post a point of view, that you personally do not agree with, does not mean that they are overreacting. The arguments against feeding vertebrates in this thread are valid points, not overreactions. If you don't agree, then maybe try arguing it with a well thought out reply instead of just ranting and raving about it.



My personal opinion is that there is no need to feed vertebrates to a tarantula, so I don't and won't do it. Sure, it happens in the wild, but there is no need to do so, to have healthy spiders in captivity, so I just won't.


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## Mojo Jojo (Aug 23, 2011)

Hellion299 said:


> I have heard the whole chitin vs. calcium argument but come on, seriously! Give me some fresh opinions……
> 
> *...choose your side!*


The OP was already aware of the opinions out there. Choose your side!? I think its pretty clear that he wanted to start a war.


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## paassatt (Aug 23, 2011)

Mojo Jojo said:


> The OP was already aware of the opinions out there. Choose your side!? I think its pretty clear that he wanted to start a war.


Methinks you're correct


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## Hellion299 (Aug 23, 2011)

And through this war I shall bring “The True Death” to the entire human race so that I may start the world a new with mini ninja bunny bots!!!!! MMmmwwhhhaaa haa haa haaaaaa!!!!!!

...too bad you were able to figure me out....Dog gone it.....so close.....


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## AmbushArachnids (Aug 23, 2011)

I have never fed any of my tarantulas any vertebrates. Id like to point out the size of one of my Ts. I raised a male P. ornata from a sling to a adult. He matured at 7 3/4" max leg span. I believe gut loading your prey is all the nutrition necessary for a healthy spider.


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## Hellion299 (Aug 23, 2011)

That is pretty impressive AgentD006las. I have a P. ornata that I have had since he was 1". He is 6" now. I am guessing 2-3 molts away from maturity. He has eaten.....4-5 pinkies in his entire life. I wonder if he will out grow yours. That would be a pretty cool experiment to try.


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## AmbushArachnids (Aug 23, 2011)

Hellion299 said:


> That is pretty impressive AgentD006las. I have a P. ornata that I have had since he was 1". He is 6" now. I am guessing 2-3 molts away from maturity. He has eaten.....4-5 pinkies in his entire life. I wonder if he will out grow yours. That would be a pretty cool experiment to try.


Heres a link to my thread. http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?204406-P.-ornata-male-powerfeeding-result.


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## Hellion299 (Aug 23, 2011)

So it only took him 8 months to grow to that size?

---------- Post added 08-23-2011 at 03:42 PM ----------

Ha! I see the chart...Wow.

---------- Post added 08-23-2011 at 03:48 PM ----------

Awesome thread by the way! 5 star'd it.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Louise E. Rothstein (Aug 23, 2011)

People are vertebrates...When tarantulas eat vertebrates I tend to identify with the animals eaten.
Since several people spoke of feeding PEOPLE to tarantulas in that context I suspect that they reacted as I did-only more so.
The same may apply to people who said that feeding vertebrates is bad for reasons that did not hold up.

Their real reason may be my own:

"I am a vertebrate."

"We get uncomfortable."

The tarantulas do not know this.
It is not their problem.

If the vertebrates they eat are chemically clean,not too big,and don't kill tarantulas they do just fine.

If the INvertebrates they eat are chemically clean,are big enough,and don't kill tarantulas they do just fine on them too.

Do they like to eat both...?

Would they alternate which they eat...if they had a choice...?

Has this experiment ever been tried...?

Most enquiringly yours,

Louise Esther Rothstein.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Hellion299 (Aug 23, 2011)

Louise E. Rothstein said:


> People are vertebrates...When tarantulas eat vertebrates I tend to identify with the animals eaten.
> Since several people spoke of feeding PEOPLE to tarantulas in that context I suspect that they reacted as I did-only more so.
> The same may apply to people who said that feeding vertebrates is bad for reasons that did not hold up.
> 
> ...


Now that's post! This same logic can be applied to why people fear zombies. I love it!!


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## Kraine (Aug 23, 2011)

I don't mind what other people feed their T's. But personally, I'd rather not risk injuring my T by feeding him flailing vertebrates.


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## GregorSamsa (Aug 23, 2011)

Have I? 

Once. I fed my P. muticus a thawed pinky, in an attempt to get her to eat SOMETHING. Its all she ever ate while in my care, and died due to a bad molt secondary to a broken leg. She only ate hoppers before I had her. Whether or not this was any relation to her issues, I don't know.

Will I again?

No...
No need: I have a nice, self sufficient colony of meaty Dubia. They're convenient and I know exactly what my T's are eating.

Messy: I can think of a thousand things I'd rather do than fish a stinky, rotting piece of mouse flesh out of an enclosure.

Potential of injury: I don't see the point in risking injury to my spiders, just to vary their diet "like it is in the wild." They're not living in the wild, they're living in glass boxes full of dirt in my living room.


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## Merfolk (Aug 23, 2011)

To add to my point, I do like to witness my Ts tackling a prey, but I would be very much satisfied if such prey was a giant moth or locust : )


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## helixrose (Aug 24, 2011)

zonbonzovi said:


> Crickets are omnivores & eat all manner of things in the wild.  You could conceivably feed them pinkies or pinkies fed on pizza or civet cat eyes in a Kobe beef demi-glace, for that matter.
> 
> Personally, I just find it easier to feed roaches raised on an array of bargain produce, stale cereals & cat food for those inverts that will eat them.  Very rarely will I have a carnivorous invert that wont.
> 
> ...


Well said- I salute your expansive and intelligent eco-view, AND your awesome sense of humor. 

---------- Post added 08-24-2011 at 06:29 PM ----------

None of the tarantulas I've helped keep were fed vertebrates, that's because we didn't have it in us try feeding them baby mice that crawl around and can't see. We'd have tried frozen without qualms only we didn't know whether they'd try to catch something dead. 
At the end of the day it seemed like they had enough variety in their diet without them.


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## BigJ999 (Aug 24, 2011)

I feed my mine small lizards,toads and frogs from time to time  although their diet is mostly insects roaches,crickets,grasshoppers,moths for the aboreal one's.


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## Merfolk (Aug 25, 2011)

Their natural diet is still mostly insects, but they have big insects where they live : )


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## kylestl (Aug 26, 2011)

Feeding vertebrates is stupid. Calcium may or may not be a problem. I think feeding mice to tarantulas is just a "gladiator match" and people do it for their own sadistic pleasure and justify it with things like "I have never had anything bad happen," "I think it is good for them," and my favorite "It happens in the wild." Does it? How often does it happen? Is the cage your keeping it in the wild? Nope, you take care of the t. If you don't feed it, it dies. Not the wild at all. Because it is the keeper who takes care of it, it is also your responsibility to do what is right for the animal. Tarantulas do fine feeding on invertebrates only, so many keepers do it, including myself. I also think feeding mice to t's is cruel because of the fact it is unnecessary, I am not against using mice as feeders for say snakes.

Can't wait until next week when we have another thread just like this.



Merfolk said:


> Their natural diet is still mostly insects, but they have big insects where they live : )


Try roaches.

Reactions: Like 1


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## sAdam (Aug 26, 2011)

Can I feed humans to my OBT, or are they too high in calcium?  What about pinky humans?


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## BigJ999 (Aug 26, 2011)

kylestl said:


> Feeding vertebrates is stupid. Calcium may or may not be a problem. I think feeding mice to tarantulas is just a "gladiator match" and people do it for their own sadistic pleasure and justify it with things like "I have never had anything bad happen," "I think it is good for them," and my favorite "It happens in the wild." Does it? How often does it happen? Is the cage your keeping it in the wild? Nope, you take care of the t. If you don't feed it, it dies. Not the wild at all. Because it is the keeper who takes care of it, it is also your responsibility to do what is right for the animal. Tarantulas do fine feeding on invertebrates only, so many keepers do it, including myself. I also think feeding mice to t's is cruel because of the fact it is unnecessary, I am not against using mice as feeders for say snakes.
> 
> Can't wait until next week when we have another thread just like this.
> 
> Try roaches.


I think nothing is wrong with feeding a T a mouse or small lizard or toad or frog  They aren't picky eaters and that helps in nature not to be picky  Ive seen a mantis eating a hummingbird so its not as unusual as we likely think really. I think this whole vertebrate thing is a myth anyway likely made by some moron who fed a T a mouse that was too big and the mouse killed it. My Haplo's my pokie and my OBT and LP have all eaten vertebrates and they are flourishing  Although Shelia my KB eats just about anything lol.


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## BobGrill (Aug 26, 2011)

kylestl said:


> Feeding vertebrates is stupid. Calcium may or may not be a problem. I think feeding mice to tarantulas is just a "gladiator match" and people do it for their own sadistic pleasure and justify it with things like "I have never had anything bad happen," "I think it is good for them," and my favorite "It happens in the wild." Does it? How often does it happen? Is the cage your keeping it in the wild? Nope, you take care of the t. If you don't feed it, it dies. Not the wild at all. Because it is the keeper who takes care of it, it is also your responsibility to do what is right for the animal. Tarantulas do fine feeding on invertebrates only, so many keepers do it, including myself. I also think feeding mice to t's is cruel because of the fact it is unnecessary, I am not against using mice as feeders for say snakes.
> 
> Can't wait until next week when we have another thread just like this.
> 
> Try roaches.


I disagree. I would be willing to try feeding a vertebrate to one of mine, but I wouldn't be doin it for "sadistic pleasure." I'd be doing it out of curiosity, not entertainment. I think you're being a little intense and judging people you don't even know.


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## JamieC (Aug 26, 2011)

While there may not be any proof that calcium intake is bad for tarantulas, why take the risk? It is so unnecessary. If experienced hobbyists have reason to believe that it is bad for them, then that's good enough for me. They may feed on a variety of things in the wild, but that doesn't mean they need these in captivity.

Jamie


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## kylestl (Aug 26, 2011)

BigJ999 said:


> I think nothing is wrong with feeding a T a mouse or small lizard or toad or frog  They aren't picky eaters and that helps in nature not to be picky  Ive seen a mantis eating a hummingbird so its not as unusual as we likely think really. I think this whole vertebrate thing is a myth anyway likely made by some moron who fed a T a mouse that was too big and the mouse killed it. My Haplo's my pokie and my OBT and LP have all eaten vertebrates and they are flourishing  Although Shelia my KB eats just about anything lol.


refer to my post, your tarantulas cage is not the wild. You are responsible for its survival, unlike in the wild it is responsible for its survival. In the wild a t will eat a mouse if the opportunity presents itself but that is because it has to survive and will get every meal it cam even if it means risking his life. Tarantula can easily be injured and anything bigger then a piny you run a risk.



BobGrill said:


> I disagree. I would be willing to try feeding a vertebrate to one of mine, but I wouldn't be doin it for "sadistic pleasure." I'd be doing it out of curiosity, not entertainment. I think you're being a little intense and judging people you don't even know.


 Being curious to see something die is sadistic to me. I didn't get my ts to fill my weird curiosities.

Reactions: Like 3


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## spiderwomen (Aug 26, 2011)

truth is some T's rarely turn down live food, if a t.blondi or L.parahybana were in the wild they would eat what came along, wether it was a cricket, roach or some nice little mice or maybe a mouse. depending on what kind of T it is mice is apart of the diet, epsecially in larger T's.


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## Amoeba (Aug 26, 2011)

I've got no need to feed F/T mice nor the need for people who feed live mice to their Ts (especially on youtube) there are other ways to vary diet than feeding vertebrates my 2¢

Reactions: Like 1


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## paassatt (Aug 26, 2011)

Hurricanes occur in the wild too, so maybe you should shake your spider's enclosure violently to simulate fierce winds while pouring water into it too? 

The argument of "it happens in the wild" isn't a viable one and doesn't hold up. It's completely irrelevant when you have something in captivity. You're ultimately going to feed your spider whatever you want to regardless of the advice you receive here, but don't use the bogus "in the wild" argument to justify it.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Mojo Jojo (Aug 26, 2011)

Poison Ivy grows naturally in the wild, yet I've never come across a greenthumb, including myself, that thought it would make a nice edition to their indoor garden.


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## BigJ999 (Aug 26, 2011)

Spiders are predators  I don't think being picky would help them survive long in the wild OW T venom's have been shown to be very potent towered mice actually. Some Aussie T's are actually known to eat small chickens and mice and rats however their diet is likely mostly insects but they won't pass up a mouse if it comes their way. I honestly don't know who started this whole don't feed your T's warm blooded prey thing my LP has eaten lizards,toads and frogs my OBT has eaten frogs and toads my King Baboon has eaten frogs and toads. My haplo's have also eaten frog's and toads


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## paassatt (Aug 26, 2011)

Wow, you pro-vertebrate people just won't drop the "wild" argument, will you?


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## BobGrill (Aug 26, 2011)

paassatt said:


> Wow, you pro-vertebrate people just won't drop the "wild" argument, will you?


Pro vertebrate people? I don't much like the thought of being labeled that way, and though I am neither for it nor against it, I never recall using the "wild" argument.


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## paassatt (Aug 26, 2011)

BobGrill said:


> Pro vertebrate people? I don't much like the thought of being labeled that way, and though I am neither for it nor against it, I never recall using the "wild" argument.


I wasn't referring to you, specifically. Others have used the argument and they were the people I was addressing.


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## BobGrill (Aug 26, 2011)

paassatt said:


> I wasn't referring to you, specifically. Others have used the argument and they were the people I was addressing.


Ah well thank you for clearing that up. And though I am not against feeding vertebrates, I agree that using that argument is a bit pointless.


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## grayzone (Apr 1, 2012)

hey.... guys.... mind if i hijack this thread and ask how you feel about creating hybrid ts??? i really want a P. metallica mixed with a OBT:sarcasm:

---------- Post added 03-31-2012 at 09:24 PM ----------

we all have our own views.. the only things more annoying than this debate, and ME bumping this thread i was directed to is the fact somebody intentionally caused a war over prey items.. feed your ts what you want people, your the ones paying for them AND the feeders... just dont tell other people whose right or whose wrong... subjects like this are a lot like religion or politics...


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