# P. audax VS P. regius Males



## JC (Feb 24, 2010)

I'm completely clueless on how to differentiate them. Can anyone help me out?


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## Motzo (Feb 24, 2010)

actually, the only surefire way is to look closely at the abdomen. A P. regius will have the same texture all over the abdomen, while the P. audax  has a pattern of slightly waxy/shiny-looking black scales. There's a quite visible difference.

Reactions: Like 1


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## JC (Feb 24, 2010)

Motzo, here is a friend's P.audax:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6dN8r9zEOA

Can you confirm its P.audax?


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## Motzo (Feb 24, 2010)

To my untrained eyes, yes. I believe so. The shinier scales are ever-so-slightly visible on that blurry video.
Here's a picture that shows exactly what I'm talking about:
http://homepage.mac.com/eceisner/Spiders/js3008.jpg
There's the normal white marks, then there's this reflecting line going straight down the middle of the abdomen.
Erm, hold on.. I am seeing pictures of a male Regius that also has those shinier scales.
Dangit.
You can see it here :http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=169938

Well, then the only other thing I could go on is looking at the shape of the spider's 'face'. The regius tends to be muuuch wider around the chelicerae than the audax.

Of course, I might be wrong about that as well. :wall:


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## Widowman10 (Feb 24, 2010)

from a website:


> The Regal Jumping Spider (REGIUS) belongs to the genus Phidippus, a group of jumping spiders easily identified both by their relatively large size and their iridescent chelicerae. Among most members of Phidippus, these chelicerae are generally green, but in the case of P. regius they are often a blue-violet.


now i know that this probably isn't set in stone, but it's probably a pretty good guideline. judging by this, and by experience, the male in the video is audax.


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## JC (Feb 24, 2010)

lol, thanks Motzo.


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## Widowman10 (Feb 24, 2010)

maybe another thing to check out (and i know some of these are similar with audax males as well, but it wouldn't hurt to compare):



> Adult males of P. regius average 12 mm in length (range 6 to 18 mm). Males are always black with alternating black and white fringes on the first pair of legs; on the dorsum of the abdomen are a white basal band, a central triangular white spot, and a pair of oval white spots posteriorly. The paired chelicerae are enlarged and iridescent (blue-violet); each has a subdistal tubercle on its anterior face. The first legs of larger males are disproportionately longer than smaller males, a type of allometry.


and if you really want to examine: click here


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## JC (Feb 24, 2010)

Widowman10 said:


> from a website:
> 
> 
> now i know that this probably isn't set in stone, but it's probably a pretty good guideline. judging by this, and by experience, the male in the video is audax.



So much for the "easily identified" part. I have two males that look exactly alike except for the color on chelicerae. They come from the same region and I wouldn't be surprised if they were sack mates.


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## Widowman10 (Feb 24, 2010)

JC said:


> So much for the easily for the "easily identified" part. I have two males that look exactly alike except for the color on chelicerae. They come from the same region and I wouldn't be surprised if they were sack mates.


i wouldn't be surprised if they were different species or if they were sackmates


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## JC (Feb 24, 2010)

Widowman10 said:


> i wouldn't be surprised if they were different species or if they were sackmates


Yeah, but what worries me is I do not want to produce hybrids(if these aren't already). I have a breeding group and I want to breed them, but I'd rather hold off until I can identify them correctly.


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## Widowman10 (Feb 24, 2010)

have they been known to produce viable offspring? anyone? 

i know it is possible with some tarantula species, but with latrodectus it is not possible. i would like to see documented proof, not just hearsay 

i am fairly sure what you have is an audax male. if you have an audax female, go for it.


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## JC (Feb 24, 2010)

Widowman10 said:


> i know it is possible with some tarantula species, but with latrodectus it is not possible. i would like to see documented proof, not just hearsay


Ok, but if I manage to produce hybrids you have to promise to buy them all!

By the way that is not my P. audax. I will be posting pics of what I believe are my P.regius breeding group shortly.


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## Widowman10 (Feb 24, 2010)

i read that regius crossed with otiosis can produce hybrids. did not say either way anything about audax though.

couple more quotes: 



> in 1833, in which he stated, underside of the abdomen is entirely black. This matches the condition which always occurs in P. regius, but which only occasionally occurs in P. audax. Phidippus audax commonly has a pair of longitudinal white lines on the venter of the abdomen.





> bands, a condition that is quite common in P. audax but extremely rare in P. regius, which normally has an all black carapace





> The majority of audax specimens are black with three white spots. Note the iridescent scales and flat (without gloss) black patches on the abdomen. These markings help distinguish audax from similar species such as P. regius.


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## JC (Feb 24, 2010)

Here is a picture of one of the males:






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Here is a picture of one of the females:


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## TheTyro (Feb 25, 2010)

I wish my male audax was still alive ( he's currently floating in alcohol, but his abdomen is super thin so it's kind of useless even if I stare at it)

I just analyzed my regius abdomen and went to look at old pictures of my audax, and while I already know there is a difference, through photos is can be really hard to tell sometimes.

All I know is that the biggest difference in a regius male specifically, is the abdomen looks velvety all over its surface. The sides are slightly lighter color black, like dark dark greyish black, while the area where audax has the matte, waxy looking spots of black, in regius its a strip of black velvet. I puppysit a miniature pinscher and it totally made me think of the regius's posterior.

I took a macro video of my larger male's booty and his face, so you can see the difference if you have a true audax on hand. It should be clear once you see it in person! I hope spiders don't get dizzy....because I spun him all over the place.

P. regius male:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuu6sL3JBqk


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## TheTyro (Feb 25, 2010)

Oh and I should add, the male in the picture you posted...kinda looks more like a P. regius to me, but I can't be sure because the angle of his abdomen makes it sort of impossible to see if its really that matte looking, or glossy. To me it looks more matte kinda. But I am definitely just guessing based on that one picture. It's weird how easy it is to see it on all the females I've had...but males are a tad trickier. The female pictured looks pretty much exactly like my female P. regius.

I guess knowing where the male was collected would help a bit more. :? Spiders are tricky!


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## Widowman10 (Feb 25, 2010)

TheTyro said:


> I guess knowing where the male was collected would help a bit more.


unless ranges overlap.


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## TheTyro (Feb 25, 2010)

Widowman10 said:


> unless ranges overlap.


Yeah haha, and I'm pretty sure in a lot of places they definitely do. :wall: Maybe it's time spiders start carrying I.D. cards....save us the work. 

audax, regius and otiosis make things complicated!


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## JC (Feb 25, 2010)

Yup, mine are P.regius. They look exactly like the one in your video Tyro!


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