# Internal Parasites - Ball Pythons



## tripleG (Aug 16, 2006)

My baby ball python died the other night of an internal parasitic infestation. I had not managed to get her to feed since i acquired her around April/May of this year. She never ate before i bought her to my knowledge and never shed while i had her. I tried everything I could to no avail and now I'm worried that the rest of my colloection could be at risk. I have quarantined them all in separate room and disinfected the place where they were kept. I am also re-housing all of the snakes that were in the same room as the Ball and cleaning their cages with a boiling water/light bleach mixture to be sure they are disinfected. If anyone could help me identify the type of parasite that did this I could research them and find out how contagious they are as well as how to better prevent this from happening to the rest of my pets as well as what to look for in the future. I have posted 2 pics to help identify the culprits, be warned they are graphic images but I know a professional will be able to stomach it and help me identify the parasites. I've included a description below in case the pics are not detailed enough for proper analysis. Thanks for all your help.













The parasites seem to have originated within the body of the animal, not from an external source. The speicmen wan lying in a pool of its own bile/bodily fluids. Body seems deflated and has been split open in several places on the belly where the parasites emerged. There are at least two dozen greyish-white wormlike creatures crawling in and out of the body. I cannot locate any organs it seems as though the parasites consumed them and completely filled the snake's little body. They are about 1" long and 1/4" in diameter and do not like the light. They crawl inside the body and hide beneath it when disturbed. Lower jaw of the specimen seems broken and there were some bones protruding near the head. It's eyes went a dirty greyish-yellow colour and the smell is putrid. (Not unlike any dead animal though) Any thoughts you have as to what these are and what risks are associated with them would be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much.


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## Mushroom Spore (Aug 16, 2006)

oh what in the name of god is that


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## Stylopidae (Aug 17, 2006)

They look like trachnid fly maggots...although those to my knowledge attack insects, so they're most likely some sort of botfly. Try to raise them to adults (this is the only reliable way to ID maggots to species) and then post good pics of the adults on the boards (if you send me a PM, I will be happy to photograph the adults for you with a high resolution camera, all you have to do is send them to me). Somebody here should be able to identify them.

This is the first time I've ever heard of flies killing snakes, although the fact that it can happen comes as no surprise to me.

If you decide to raise them, do NOT let the flies escape for obvious reasons.


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## tripleG (Aug 17, 2006)

i'll try and raise some of them in a separate room if i can do it securely.. then take some pics and send them to you. Thanks a bunch.


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## MrT (Aug 17, 2006)

Where did you get the snake?  Take it to them and show them what they sold or whatever. Thats sick.  I hope the rest of your snakes are ok.
I'd be looking for that SOB!!

MrT


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## Galadriel (Aug 17, 2006)

Those aren't internal parasites. They're maggots. How long had your snake been dead when you took that pic?


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## Stylopidae (Aug 17, 2006)

JennS said:
			
		

> I talked to my friend the vet tech and he looked at the pics.  He says he has never heard of any parasitic flies in snakes.  If the eggs were laid on a wound and infested the snake, it would have happened after the guy got the snake (he said April/May) because they grow very fast.  My friend also said the snake looked to have been dead for a few days.  Personally, I find it hard to see a snake surviving to the point where it's organs have been consumed before dying.
> 
> However, I just broke out my reptile books.  Dr. Mader's Reptile Medicine and Surgery lists two genera of flies: _Calliphorid_ (blowflies) and _Cuterebra_ (bot flies).  If the snake had a wound the blowflies could have gotten to it.  I did a google search and Cuterebra is a new world species.  Perhaps the snake got parasitized in the guy's home?  I also looked in Dr. Ackerman's Biology, Husbandry and Health Care of Reptiles, and he states that flies mostly attack tortoises.  He doesn't mention bot flies at all.  Oh, Dr. Mader's book mentions that for blowflies, it is 43-52 days for development of blowflies, from entering the wound to leaving the wound to pupate.
> 
> ...


This piqued my interest so I posted this in the chat. Somebody PM'ed me this.

I believe these flies may need some substrate to pupate, PM a member here named Dark Raptor. He knows his bugs.

As mentioned above, the maggots will not spread as they are not sexually mature yet.

However, let me re-iterate what I said earlier.

Flies are relatively small and agile. They will always seek out egg laying places after they mate. You need adults to get any sort of ID past family.

DO NOT LET THE ADULTS ESCAPE.

Oh, and google myasis


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## Galadriel (Aug 17, 2006)

The animal was captive bred and as far as I know, there are no bot flies in CANADA!


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## EvanG (Aug 17, 2006)

Flip one of the maggots over, take a picture.  I would like to see.


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## Galadriel (Aug 17, 2006)

http://www.arkive.org/media/538F305...on.Large/										large-House-fly-larvae.jpg


House fly maggots. That snake's been dead at least 3 days for them to be that big.

Myasis, aka screw worms, are tropical and semi-topical, and lay thier eggs in warm blooded animals. Don't bother hanging on to them unless you want a colony of house flies. Parasitic fly larvae don't usually kill thier host either. They hatch from the host as adult flies and a 4.5 to 5.5 month incubation period is rediculous.
House flies. Plain and simple.


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## Barbedwirecat (Aug 17, 2006)

I was thinking it might be possible that the food it was given might have been roadkill/parasitized? I would think the stomach acid alone would kill anything off, but if unhealthly to begin with and digestive process stopped might be a reason. I agree with everyone else that said Raise the maggots and post more pics of the top/bottom of the maggots so we might be able to get an ID. Also appox length or put a ruler in the pic, cause those looked WAY too big to be house fly maggots. Cuterebra maybe, but I don't think I've EVER seen them parasitize a snake like that. The snake would have been full of tiney circular holes for them to breath.


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## tripleG (Aug 17, 2006)

you're right the snake had been dead about three days total when those pics were taken but i had to wait for my camera to able to load the pics it was in being repaired.. since there seems to be a confliction of opinions regarding these bugs I'm going to post some better pics for those of you with an interest and i'll include a ruler. These bugs did kill the snake but I'm not sure about the condition of the organs inside. All the food I attempted to feed it was from pet stores not wild or road kill although you can never be sure and the snake never even touched one of them so it couldn't have ingested the bugs through its food. My house is kept free of insects as best as can be, especially the room where i keep my pets. The cage was normally closed and i can't see how any flies would be able to enter it when there aren't any of them visible anywhere in the room or in other cages but thats just me. I'm glad you all seem to agree that its not likely the other snakes have become infested themselves but i keep a close eye on their behaviour and eating patterns. To reiterate, the snake never ate and the substrate was newspaper so it couldn't have come from mulch. Also, there is no possibility of a wound or rodent bite b/c all food was pre-killed and the snake never had any injuries of any sort for them to enter. My thoughts are leaning towards contaminated water? or is it possible they were already inside it when i purchased the snake and reamined dormant b/c i'm not sure of the conditions it was under before then?


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## Stylopidae (Aug 17, 2006)

Galadriel said:
			
		

> http://www.arkive.org/media/538F305...on.Large/										large-House-fly-larvae.jpg
> 
> 
> House fly maggots. That snake's been dead at least 3 days for them to be that big.
> ...


Galadriel, did you even bother to read my post?



			
				JennS said:
			
		

> However, I just broke out my reptile books. Dr. Mader's Reptile Medicine and Surgery lists two genera of flies: _Calliphorid_ (blowflies) and _Cuterebra_ (bot flies). If the snake had a wound the blowflies could have gotten to it.


From everything I've read, maggots are almost impossible to identify past the family level. You'd need pictures of the spiracles (which aren't even visible in those pics) to even identify them that far. Myasis is not officially out as of yet.

A picture idenfication with a common name (I'm assuming by the common name of housefly you're referring to Musca domestica) does nothing to identify these bugs, especialy without pictures of the spiracles.

However, those maggots seem to be both shorter and fatter than those of M. domestica and resemble those of tachnid flies to me.

As I said...ID to family is possible with spiracles and pictures of maggots do nothing as all maggots are almost identical. They could be blowflies, they could be houseflies. No way to know without pics of the adults.

As for botflies not killing their hosts, deaths from secondary infections caused by myasis are quite common among cattle and horses.

Also in the book Parasite Rex, Carl Zimmer detailed a death of a young boy that was caused directly by a botfly maggot. There is photographic evidence of a rather large maggot lodged in the boy's brain to back this up, too.


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## bugmankeith (Aug 17, 2006)

Did you see the maggots moving under the snakes skin? Was the snake ever taken to a vet, and did it ever have any open cuts? 

Wherever you got if from, the snake may have had an open sore, or was taken from the wild while it was injured, thus if it had an open sore in the wild, fly larvae could have gotten inside before it was captured, and before you purchased it.

Did the snake open up like that from the maggots, or did you dissect it?
Sorry to hear the snake died.


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## tripleG (Aug 17, 2006)

The snake opened up like that from the maggots I did not disect it. I didn't see or feel any maggots wriggling beneath the skin when holding the specimen. I'm not certain of anything regarding the pet store i purchased it from now but the person who sold it to me assured me it was captive bred but there's no way to be certain. It seems unlikey someone would import a clutch of wild snakes as infants all at once. It was part of a larger group and i'm worried others may experience this problem b/c they were all being kept in one tank at the store as hatchlings. If it indeed contracted them from the wild, that would mean the gestation period would have to be over five months. As I said I bought it in April and it had no open sores or anything so it would have to have healed already. If they imported it must've been in Mar/early Apr. Could it take that long for this to happen? Nice to know ppl are compassionate about these animals thanks a lot ppl. I'll post pics of the adult flies once I grow them so that you can analyze them, hopefully with success. 

Should i be worried about larvae affecting me/my friends from exposure, perhaps from a stool or holding the snake?


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## Mushroom Spore (Aug 17, 2006)

tripleG said:
			
		

> assured me it was captive bred but there's no way to be certain. It seems unlikey someone would import a clutch of wild snakes as infants all at once.


This happens all the time. Presumably the "harvesters" know where the nests are. And nothing is to say that those snakes were related, possibly stores are sent all collected babies while adults go somewhere else? I don't know, but it's possible.


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## Barbedwirecat (Aug 18, 2006)

tripleG said:
			
		

> or is it possible they were already inside it when i purchased the snake and reamined dormant b/c i'm not sure of the conditions it was under before then?


Thats what I'm thinkin. Do you know what the breeder/dealer fed them for 100% sure?

Ick i don't think cuterebra could last that long without you knowing about it....but i guess it is possible. I'm thumbing through my book of vet medicine.....

OK....Evil Cheshire is very right. Unless you are able to take a pic of the sphericles, its is VERY hard to identify the species, however yes its reminds me VERY much of cuterbra larva.
Also a snippet from this book in my lap:

"The calliphorid flesh flies(blow flies) will often deposit eggs on terrestrial chelonians (turtles) both in the wild and in captivity. The eggs may be deposited in wound sites such as produced by ticks. The developing larva may produce loacal or diffuse subcutanious swellings. These larva migrate through subcutanious tissue causeing fistulous tracts."
-Reptile Medicine and Surgery, MADER.

Lol I just realized this is the same book you mentioned as well.

consider how thin the subcutanious tissue is on snakes. It might be possible these larva just kept on going deeper because thats what their bodies needed.

Botflies:
http://botfly.quiik.com/index.html






BlowFlies:
http://www.deathonline.net/decomposition/corpse_fauna/flies/blowfly_intro.htm






I REALLY am thinking Botfly because of hand on experiance, but I need more pics like Evil Cheshire saids.


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## Stylopidae (Aug 18, 2006)

bugmankeith said:
			
		

> Did the snake open up like that from the maggots, or did you dissect it?
> Sorry to hear the snake died.


The more I read, the more these sound like tachnid flies...

...only one problem, though. Those only parasitize bugs (and yes, they kill them).

I lost an entire colony of narceus americanus last year to tachnid flies and they looked like that snake...if you move them, they tend to bust out of the animal.

Boy, was the smell ungodly. No matter how many times I washed the film canisters I transfered the dead millis to, the smell never even showed any signs of going away.


:? :? :?


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## Galadriel (Aug 18, 2006)

Ok, this thread is becoming a joke. I gave my opinion based on my formal education and personal experience. I'm not some 19 year old kid running a few things on google to try to appear more intelligent, and I'm CERTAINLY not here to get into a pissing contest with one.
House fly maggots can reach up to an inch, and, if you look at their size compared to the newspaper type and NOT the snake, they are well within normal range. Tropical parasiric fly larvae don't live in Canada, and a wild caught specimine wouldn't be carrying said maggots for several months. The life cycle isn't that long. Read tripleG's posts again. The information is all there. Then find a cold weather parasitic fly that uses cold blooded animals as hosts and kills the host while they are still in the young larval stage. Why is it SO hard to believe those nasty little critters are just plain old, decaying flesh eating fly larvae? Not everything has to be dramatic. And, by the way. tachinid flies strictly use insects and are only at pupal stage for 1-2 weeks. Couldn't be the cause of a ball python not eating for several months, even if they DID infest reptiles.
So yes, TripleG...raise them up to adulthood, take and post some photos. It will only take afew days and will end this debate. 

Latha math an drasda

Galadriel


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## Barbedwirecat (Aug 18, 2006)

Galadriel, I'm sorry if I offended you somehow. I was only quoting what I have been taught in my 5+ years exotic vet tech experiance. I used to sit down at lunch at the vet and read whole books on parasites. I meant only to offer some support on roughly exactly what it could be. I've even called my exotic vet, she supports a few theories as well. I didn't go based on the newsprint because as we all know newsprint can be ALL different sizes and typesets. I understand you know what your talking about, but you still cannot be 100% positive of the identification either unless you were to physically see the sphericals or the adult. Or a really high res picture. I have found maggots on animals that are all different sizes, and I have found cuterebra on animals of all different sizes. Found and extracted from wound sockets 5" in diameter. No one here was trying to get into a pissing contsest with anyone, we just wanted to offer our knowlege. 
  I copied what I had word for word out of the medical reptile textbook I had. I googled (or yahooed) some photos for reference to show what the book showed. I not sure why you got so defensive when we are all only trying to help here and even you cannot be 100% certain unless you have better pictures and a fully developed adult. 

"If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them." 
Isaac Asimov

tapadh leibh 

-Lauren


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## Stylopidae (Aug 18, 2006)

And now you're taking things I say completely out of context, Galadriel.



			
				Galadriel said:
			
		

> And, by the way. tachinid flies strictly use insects and are only at pupal stage for 1-2 weeks. Couldn't be the cause of a ball python not eating for several months, even if they DID infest reptiles.


And this is what I said...



			
				Evil Cheshire said:
			
		

> The more I read, the more these sound like tachnid flies...
> 
> ...only one problem, though. Those only parasitize bugs


I said the maggots _resembled_ those of tachnid flies...I never said they were.

I _never_ said those were blow *or* or botflies. I said those were possibilities.

 I am simply telling him to raise them to adults so we can positively ID them, and warning against identification from comparing two different species of maggots since most if not all maggots look exactly alike.

Look at the pics of the maggots that barbiecat posted and then look at the pics of your cleaned up housefly maggots. They look very similar and if they weren't cleaned, you could miss the row of hooks. Plus, the low res camera doesn't help.

I am by no means a google expert. Since you know I'm 19, I'm assuming you've read some of my other posts and know about my internship. I assure you, I wouldn't be able to get an internship like this if I were meer a google-expert like you claim.

For those of you that don't know: I will be starting as an intern zookeeper at Blank Park Zoo in Des Moines, Iowa the week of September first. I've been working on this for two years, making the contacts and getting the references to make this possible.

I've worked with vets of all types (farm and reptile...oddly enough, no family pet vets :? ).

However, like I've been saying all along...there is NO way to POSTIVELY ID those from the pics given. He'd have to have a hell of a lot higher resolution than what he has _and_ a good macro lens to get pics of what we need to positively ID those.


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## Galadriel (Aug 18, 2006)

...and I agreed. If it's importaint enough to him to find out, he should post pics of the adults. But, perhaps, he would be better off taking the preserved flies, whatever they happen to be, to an entemologist at one of the Uni's in his area for positive ID. My degree is in toxicology, specialty in herps...not bugs. So instead of trying to cut eachother's throats, maybe we should leave this one to the experts, yeah?

And by the way, has anyone noticed TripleG hasn't posted in a couple days? Maybe he's as tired of this debate as the rest of the world should be. I think maybe it's time to let it rest.


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## tripleG (Aug 18, 2006)

I'm glad everyone is trying to help me identify these bugs for my future benefit, thanks so much to you all. I am still interested in finding out exactly what they are for my own knowledge but it will have to wait until the maggots mature to adulthood for a 100% positive ID. I'm not trying to start a fight between anyone so I hope I didn't but it looks like you are coming to terms with each other which is good to see. By the way, I did post yesterday as I have checked on and read all of your comments every day since I first posted with genuine interest and respect. I am not as knowledgable as some of you out there with degrees as I've had no formal training but I am certainly not stupid and I know that learning everything I can will only help me when I face similar problems in the future. Especially since I am in the process of beginning several breeding projects and hopefully starting a business with a few partners of mine. Thanks again for your help and support. I have isolated and begun to raise the maggots to adults so we will soon know for certain. Sorry I don't have a high-res camera to take pics with but I just don't have the money for everything all at once, lol.


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## Mister Internet (Aug 18, 2006)

Had this snake ever been taken to a vet?


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## joseofsa (Aug 18, 2006)

Somthing like this happened to me a while ago except i noticed a horrible smell from my snake while he was alive. i took him to a vet and i was given 2 choices let the snake live and live in pain or put him down. I had him put down and the disection revealed flys/maggots. normal house flys. The vet said he was injured and infected with maggots before i got him. maybe the same thing happened to you? hope u can get a new animal. I made the dealers life a liveing hell till he broke and replaced my animal.
joseofsa


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## Barbedwirecat (Aug 18, 2006)

Or just get your money back. I'm not quite sure I'd want to visit and purchase anything from a petstore with questionable husbandry/ collecting techniques.


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## tripleG (Aug 19, 2006)

yeah i agree with you there.. I don't think I'd be comfortable getting any more animals from this store. I've also heard other complaints about they way they treat their animals and while I'd like to get them into a better home I don't want to risk losing my investment or possibly harming the rest of my own collection. 

They'll be hearing from me you can bet on it. Me/My friends have purchased enough things from this place for them to know we don't screw around. They shouldn't be allowed to get away with this so if they don't agree to reimberse my cash then I'll have to tell ppl what store it was. Maybe enough complaints will motivate the guy to take better care of their animals. I noticed when i was there that their snakes were having trouble shedding b/c of low humidity and some of the enclosures were inadequate as well.


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## tripleG (Aug 19, 2006)

oh yeah, it never made it to the vet I'm sorry to say I didn't make the appointment in time. I thought it was just a stubborn snake that wouldn't begin to feed so I tried everything until it looked like I had to make a vet visit, but too late.


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## joseofsa (Aug 20, 2006)

yeah i agree i almost took a stupid risk but the new animal was from a local breeder and he brought some in that day so i knew the animals were raised properly as i help cleaning feeding the animals he breeds.


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## bugmankeith (Aug 27, 2006)

Did you get any flies yet?


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## ~Abyss~ (Aug 29, 2006)

hey I actually saw a special on this in animal planet they need a warm blooded host they are maggots but they live in the warm blooded creature untill 1. it dies, 2. the maggots die, 3. they reach maturity. They could live without the host by that size i think but the mouse you fed it to could of been the host was it frozen or alive.


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## JCola (Aug 29, 2006)

Well, maybe this is a stupid question, but.... how large are/were the maggots? and how big was the snake?  I can't tell from the pictures, and I didn't see anything in the post (could've missed it though).  Also, how long was it after the snake died that you first noticed the maggots?  

I'm very sorry for your loss.


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## ~Abyss~ (Aug 29, 2006)

he has a pic with a maggot near a ruller go back and look, as for the snake cant talk there


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## JCola (Aug 29, 2006)

The maggot pic was posted by someone else.... sooo i figured it wasn't the actual maggots... could be wrong though....


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## ~Abyss~ (Aug 30, 2006)

oh that i didnt notice.......well i guess we dont should get the exact size of the snake and the maggots at the time when they were first spotted


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## lucanidae (Aug 31, 2006)

Any parasitic fly.....

If one:

A. Had a long enough maturation time to have infected that snake since April/May (unlikely to near impossible, Dipterans are known for their incredibly fast development rate)

B. Lived in Canada and fed on snakes (extremely unlikely)

C. Fed gregariously on single prey item (also very unlikley, while wasps often have more than one larvae per host, parasitic flies usually only deposit a single egg)

If a parasitic fly did fit into above criteria...... it would have pupated within a few hours of emerging from the host (common in all parasitic flies)

Bot flies? Did your snake get bitten by that many mosquitoes? (that is how bot flies reach their host....)

Those are almost definitley calliphorid flies, laid on the snake soon after death. Definitley NOT a parasite.


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## ~Abyss~ (Aug 31, 2006)

well some bot flies atacke other flies so your common hous fly could have been infected. But they do need a warm blooded host so i figure it was in whatever he ate.


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## Mister Internet (Aug 31, 2006)

Ok, I think we learned a couple of things in this thread.

1) No one here knows jack about flies. 

2) If your animal is sick, not eating, acting weird, acting lethargic... TAKE IT TO THE VET.  Waiting four months to get proper help with a problem animal is borderline neglect.  Yes, Ball Paythons commonly go months without eating, but that should be tolerated only after it has been you care long enough to know it is healthy before the fast.


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## Stylopidae (Aug 31, 2006)

Mister Internet said:
			
		

> 1) No one here knows jack about flies.


I'll second that, although I did have some N. americanus that I lost to tachnid flies where the larvae took about a month to pupate after leaving the host.

ID was confirmed through google.


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## Galadriel (Sep 12, 2006)

Mister Internet said:


> Ok, I think we learned a couple of things in this thread.
> 
> 1) No one here knows jack about flies.


And I third that. Google should have said "Did you mean _tachinid_ flies?"


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## lucanidae (Sep 12, 2006)

Haha! I've been waiting for someone to mention that.....



> They look like trachnid fly maggots...although those to my knowledge attack insects, so they're most likely some sort of botfly.





> However, those maggots seem to be both shorter and fatter than those of M. domestica and resemble those of tachnid flies to me.





> The more I read, the more these sound like tachnid flies...





> I lost an entire colony of narceus americanus last year to tachnid flies and they looked like that snake..





> I said the maggots resembled those of tachnid flies...I never said they were.


And this......



> I am by no means a google expert.


but later....



> I'll second that, although I did have some N. americanus that I lost to tachnid flies where the larvae took about a month to pupate after leaving the host.
> 
> ID was confirmed through google.


C'mon, if you are going to pretend to know so much about them at least spell it correctly....


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## Leiurus87 (Sep 12, 2006)

I thought this thread was pretty interesting until it turned into a bunch of personal attacks. We are here to learn, not sling mud. If I wanted mud slinging I'd watch CSPAN or MSNBC or go to a politics forum.


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## lucanidae (Sep 12, 2006)

I'm sure it will stop as soon as we get some adult pictures!


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## bugmankeith (Sep 12, 2006)

Yeah i'm waiting to see the little buggers also.


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## Barbedwirecat (Sep 14, 2006)

I second that! I'm not gonna debate anymore till we see adults. IF i was a bettin woman....


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## lucanidae (Sep 14, 2006)

Would you bet on botfly? Because that would be a bad bet.  I checked, and of every single species of that family known not a ONE is a parasite of reptiles....


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## Barbedwirecat (Sep 14, 2006)

I said IF i was a bettin woman (and I ain't), and I'm not a certified entomologist or animal parasitologist. I'll argue of I know I'm 100% correct. Other than that its pure speculation to ME until I have HANDS on proof. Still waiting for that reply anyway. Given the mysterious circumstances---It could be anyones guess.

But only one truth.

After edit:
Botfly. If you look in Maders Reptile Medicine and Surgery page 189 Figure 16-6 A and B, you will see a photo showing the breathing holes for the bot flies, as well as picture underneath of the botflies removed from the wound. I didn't say its common in snakes, but there is documented proof of at least one type of reptile that can be paratised by botflies.
That is 100% proof to me (medically documented veterinary textbook) that your above statement concerning botflies is wrong. I would scan the page, but that would be copyright infrindgement. Theres a reason these medical texts cost alot of money and the internet is basically free. Not to say you didn't consult texts, but I'm not sure it/they were the right ones.


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## lucanidae (Sep 15, 2006)

My source used The Manual for Neartic Diptera.  This means that in U.S. and Canada not a single bot fly species is known to parasitize reptiles.  Perhaps wild caught animals from other parts of the world could have genera of bot flies that parasitize reptiles.

But think about it.....if a wild caught animal came in with that many bot fly larvae in it, wouldn't the owner have noticed all the big breathing holes in the snake?


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## Barbedwirecat (Sep 15, 2006)

Barbedwirecat said:


> "The calliphorid flesh flies(blow flies) will often deposit eggs on terrestrial chelonians (turtles) both in the wild and in captivity. The eggs may be deposited in wound sites such as produced by ticks. The developing larva may produce loacal or diffuse subcutanious swellings. These larva migrate through subcutanious tissue causeing fistulous tracts."
> -Reptile Medicine and Surgery, MADER.
> 
> Lol I just realized this is the same book you mentioned as well.
> ...





Barbedwirecat said:


> Cuterebra maybe, but I don't think I've EVER seen them parasitize a snake like that. The snake would have been full of tiney circular holes for them to breath.


I'm pretty sure a few of us outlined this ealier.with the breathing holes. Regardless I'm not going to get into a your book said this my book says this discussion. I work as an exoctic vet assistant for 5 years, I SAW TORTOISES and TURTLES WITH BOT FLY and BLOW FLY LARVAE. 1st hand. There is ONE reptile with bot fly larvae attacks. Regaurdless of how many books it is and is not documented in. So its possible. Any introduced species would find it possible to be attacked given the right conditions (beaten up, full of puncture holes from prey, TICK BITES).

  I'm not sure why we are still on the subject of botflies, or even discussing it anymore considering we still have no response from this person. 

I'm done, if you wanna argue more for your point - go for it.  I'm not dignifying it with a respose until I see the flys.

I'm not slingin anymore mud.


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## Galadriel (Sep 15, 2006)

There seems to be some confusion about what blow flies are. They're house flies. Big, metalic green house flies. They are in no way, shape or form parasitic. 

We are never going to see the adults of those maggots, period. This whole "debate" is pointless.


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## lucanidae (Sep 15, 2006)

Exactly, family Calliphoridae.  This family is mostly oviposited on dead or dying animals.


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## lucanidae (Sep 19, 2006)

Ohh, here's another thought.  Could be a member of the family Sarcophagidae. They look like calliphorids as larvae and feed on dead or dying animals as well. Definitley native to Canada, and very common.


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## tripleG (Oct 1, 2006)

I finally managed to get some pics of the adult flies. Have a look, I hope it is enough for an I.D let me know what you think. Thanks.


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## lucanidae (Oct 1, 2006)

> Ohh, here's another thought. Could be a member of the family Sarcophagidae. They look like calliphorids as larvae and feed on dead or dying animals as well. Definitley native to Canada, and very common.


Yay for me! The fly pictured above is a Sarcophagid. Layed on the snake soon after death or possibly on an open wound when the snake was near death. Not an internal parasite.

"Sarcophagids are similar to the Calliphoridae, except aristae are plumose only in their basal half. Bodies are typically black with longitudinal gray stripes"

http://www.bugpeople.org/taxa/Diptera/Sarcophagidae/FamilySarcophagidaePage.htm


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## lucanidae (Oct 1, 2006)

More info:

"Flesh flies (sarcophagidae) are stripey-backed or chequered flies, often with bright red eyes. They arrive at corpses slightly later than the pioneer blowflies (calliphoridae), but the eggs hatch in the uterus of the female, before she lays them, with the result that the larvae are deposited directly on the body. This allows them to catch up on the blowflies, whose eggs take around 24 hours to hatch.

Adult flesh flies still sometimes find themselves in competition with blowflies, as they fight for the best laying sites. When several flies attempt to lay in the same site, flesh flies can often be observed using their legs to kick other flies that stray too close"

http://www.deathonline.net/decomposition/corpse_fauna/flies/flesh.htm


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## Barbedwirecat (Oct 1, 2006)

YAY finally! I was waiting with baited breath! Good job guys!


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## lucanidae (Oct 1, 2006)

Yup, it's really too bad it wasn't something cooler and more exotic, but I was almost positive it was going to be the same old same old.  I just got done taking larval entomology and I was pretty positive on the ID.  As for keying that larvae out, it is pretty simple to get it to family until you have to decide between calliphorid and sarcophagid......

I'd bet some of those larvae are calliphorids as well, any flies emerge that look different?


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## Martin Villet (Oct 12, 2012)

*Flesh flies*

Hello, 

The 'parasites' seem to be the maggots of flesh flies (family Sarcophagidae). The diagnostic feature is that the blunt back end has a pocket-like structure that can be closed up to protect the breathing pores inside it from taking in fluids. They are less likely to be blow flies, which lack the pocket but have similar biology.

Flesh flies generally do not affect live animals (a condition called myiasis), but are very quick to infest dead animals, especially smaller ones like rodents and lizards. The females often deposit live maggots rather than eggs, so infestation get a very quick start. The maggots don't bore into flesh, so they almost certainly entered through the mouth of your ball python. This in turn implies that if it was alive, it was not well enough to spit them out. The size of the maggots in the picture suggests that they were mature, i.e. about 4-7 days old. If the cage was heated, you are looking at the shorter time frame. Flesh flies are globally ubiquitous, and one might well have entered your house, for instance. The problem is unlikely to recur, so massive attempts at sanitation are not vital (but they are catharctic).

The fly in the latest photo is a female fleshfly, but the 900 or so species all look rather similar. Only about a dozen specis are likely to be relevant. Since the antennae are blackish, we can rule out Sarcophaga ruficornis, but try Googling 'Sarcophaga argyrostoma' or 'Sarcophaga africa' for more detail. If you have doubt about my opinion, google my username


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