# WANTED: Aggressive T



## shanebp (Jan 10, 2010)

Hey, i'm fairly new to the hobby. Currently I have one T. An A.avic sling. I've had it for about 2 months now and i'm loving taking care of it and everything to do with T's. But the time has come, like others i've seen.. once they get one T they want more. This is my problem. I want a new T, but this time i'm looking for a ground species, not just any ground species, I want a badass ground T. I want the most vicious mofo I can get my hands on. So being new i'm not entirely sure of which T's are the most aggressive so i'm looking just to be pointed in the right direction. Thanks!!


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## TheTsupreme (Jan 10, 2010)

Once you get one and see its teleport skills irl and get some feisty fangs in you're skin and after that suffers tremendous pain for a week or so, i think you would take you're A.avic as a teddybear at night


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## Mack&Cass (Jan 10, 2010)

To be honest, I hope you realize how much flack you're going to get with that post. There are tons of YouTube videos on here about people feeding T's huge mice, among other things, and a lot of comments going off about the people who get T's just to appear macho and show off.

With a post like that, I can see the same comments popping up.

Cass

PS I'm not even going to touch the whole defensive/aggressive debate, I'll leave that one up to someone else.


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## Ariel (Jan 10, 2010)

I'm going to be honest, you probably should NOT be jumping into the agressive Ts if all you have is an A. avic sling. I REALLY suggest you work up to 'em, especially since the more agressive ones tend to have a nasty bite. Really I can see it now, you get the biggest baddest T out there, you'll under estimate it and you'll get bit. It won't kill you but it will put you in a world of hurt. Besides there are no "agressive" Ts, its not going to chase you around the room for no reason, its just going to defend its territory and itself.

If you ABSOLUTELY must get something a bit on the meaner side, I'd suggest an A. geniculata, they get big, and i hear they can be on the defensive side, I can not atest to weater or not this is true and I've never owned one. They are by far not he biggest or baddest, but I think you're trying to move way to fast.


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## endoflove (Jan 10, 2010)

any Happ. species cant go wrong with a cobalt blue


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## Redneck (Jan 10, 2010)

I would go with a G. rosea!!  They are a great begginer SP.. Sometimes they can be deffensive.. ;P But I cant suggest you get anything with a nasty bite..


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## marclar (Jan 10, 2010)

Why do you want an agressive species ?


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## paul fleming (Jan 10, 2010)

most t's are defensive but there a few that are out and out aggressive.
the most aggressive i have come across is S.dichromata.my one also tends to be out and about so is not a "pet rock" as such like lividum.
does seem strange you asking that question but i won't judge you but give you the information you asked for.
if you do get one and it does tag you which is very likely due to your lack of experience,expect to be in a bad way.


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## shanebp (Jan 10, 2010)

Thanks for all the comments that actually help, i'll check into those for sure. Just for everyones info that thinks i'm trying to get one to be macho or show off, this is totally false. I'm not a child, I wouldn't really feel macho showing off a T to someone.. I think if I wanted to do that i'd just hit the gym lol. I want an aggressive/defensive one just because I think its cool, and I don't plan on handling my T's at all, I love them just for display. So I don't plan on putting myself in a situation where I might get bitten. Thanks again to everyone who added helpful info! I really appreciate it!


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## Ariel (Jan 10, 2010)

well even if you don't handle your Ts you ALWAYS have a chance of being bitten, especially since some of the meaner species, are FAST. Its why I'd suggest starting with a slower more docile species. Any time you open the tank is a chance that you COULD be bitten.


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## iluvcreepystuff (Jan 10, 2010)

Ok if you are sure you want an aggressive tarantula the most aggressive t available is Grammastola Pulchripes or the choco golden knee....

LOL im just kidding if you want aggressive and potency I would suggest 
p. murinus aka obt wich can stand for orange baboon tarantula or 
orange bitey thingy

MAKE SURE YOU READ THE BITE REPORTS SECTION


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## B8709 (Jan 10, 2010)

Wow. I'm still kinda new here so I don't know if I speak for everyone else, but I really do hope you get your hands on the most vicious T. Write back, if you can move your fingers, and tell us how that went. I HATE it when people get stuff to try to appear tough. That's just like my next door white trash neighbor who chains up his pitbull.


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## nikinizor (Jan 10, 2010)

P. murinus is practically bulletproof and will give you plenty of attitude...too bad so few people actually answered your question of what kind and instead tried to convince you not to...I hardly ever come to this site anymore because of this kind of treatment and flaming. You will get more straight answers at arachnophiles anonymous and less bullying( your question was kinda loaded anyway though, but if your gonna get one your gonna get one, just be prepared)


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## Jilly1337 (Jan 10, 2010)

You really need to do as much research as you can before you jump into a new T.  Chances are, you will end up with more than one more so you might was well familiarize yourself with as many species as you can so that you can make an informed decision for you.  My first "spunky" T was a P. lugardi.  They are, from what I am told, usually a little less fiesty than the OBT's, make great web tunnels and generally have a lot of personallity.  They are very fast and will sometimes go into a threat pose.  I found it generally manageable for an intermediate level of keeping.  If you want display, you can always get a L. parahybana.  They are fairly inexpensive and grow quickly to an impressive size.  C. cyaneopubescens is colorul, fast and an impressive hunter but not likely to try to run up your tongs in less than a second. There are so many cool T's out there. None of us can really stop at one or two.  Just take your time and learn, learn, learn in the meantime.

You also might want to look at them as just fast or defensive or intermediate rather than agressive.


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## iluvcreepystuff (Jan 10, 2010)

nikinizor said:


> P. murinus is practically bulletproof and will give you plenty of attitude...too bad so few people actually answered your question of what kind and instead tried to convince you not to...I hardly ever come to this site anymore because of this kind of treatment and flaming. You will get more straight answers at arachnophiles anonymous and less bullying( your question was kinda loaded anyway though, but if your gonna get one your gonna get one, just be prepared)


Hey now don't be talkin smack about AB, this site helps dozens of people every day there aint no telling how many t's the guys on here have saved.
We just wanna make sure he knows what hes getting his self into before he gets bit if he does.


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## shanebp (Jan 10, 2010)

B8709 said:


> Wow. I'm still kinda new here so I don't know if I speak for everyone else, but I really do hope you get your hands on the most vicious T. Write back, if you can move your fingers, and tell us how that went. I HATE it when people get stuff to try to appear tough. That's just like my next door white trash neighbor who chains up his pitbull.


Wow, if you refer to my above post, you'd of seen that I want an aggressive/defensive T because I am interested in them and I think its cool. How does having a dangerous T make anybody seem tough? its beyond me, that seems extremely childish. As for hoping that I get bitten, wow, thats an incredibly childish thing to say. If anything, it seems that you are posting here to appear "tough". If you didn't have anything constructive to post, why post at all. There are other threads, take your flaming there please.


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## shanebp (Jan 10, 2010)

nikinizor said:


> P. murinus is practically bulletproof and will give you plenty of attitude...too bad so few people actually answered your question of what kind and instead tried to convince you not to...I hardly ever come to this site anymore because of this kind of treatment and flaming. You will get more straight answers at arachnophiles anonymous and less bullying( your question was kinda loaded anyway though, but if your gonna get one your gonna get one, just be prepared)



Thanks Niki, I appreciate the straight up answer. It does seem as though i'm being flamed a bit, but lets ignore that.. It seems a few people have mentioned the OBT's so far, so I might look into one of those..


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## shanebp (Jan 10, 2010)

Jilly1337 said:


> You really need to do as much research as you can before you jump into a new T.  Chances are, you will end up with more than one more so you might was well familiarize yourself with as many species as you can so that you can make an informed decision for you.  My first "spunky" T was a P. lugardi.  They are, from what I am told, usually a little less fiesty than the OBT's, make great web tunnels and generally have a lot of personallity.  They are very fast and will sometimes go into a threat pose.  I found it generally manageable for an intermediate level of keeping.  If you want display, you can always get a L. parahybana.  They are fairly inexpensive and grow quickly to an impressive size.  C. cyaneopubescens is colorul, fast and an impressive hunter but not likely to try to run up your tongs in less than a second. There are so many cool T's out there. None of us can really stop at one or two.  Just take your time and learn, learn, learn in the meantime.
> 
> You also might want to look at them as just fast or defensive or intermediate rather than agressive.



Another thanks for a great response, and you're right.. it does seem as though we can stop at one T, I want another one already! The longer I have mine the more I become interested in them. I will try to learn as much as possible, I lurk on the boards quite a bit so i'm learning more everyday... Thanks for the OBT suggestion, seems like it might be a good choice for what i'm looking for.


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## Ariel (Jan 10, 2010)

I don't hope you get bit, but still, I DO suggest you start somewhere else. I can understand your want for a more defensive spider, I tend to lean towards those species as well, but I didn't get my first defensive species until after I'd already owned 5 other species. Like someone else said, you'll probably end up with more than just one other T, take your time! 

Edit:
I see you're planning the look into the OBT (P. murinus). This is the species I was talking about, my 6th T. I agree, they're bullet proof, and they're very very defensive, but they have a NASTY bite, read the bite reports to make sure you know EXACTLY what you're getting into with this species. Also they're not really a ground species, more semi-arboreal. They're also really fast.


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## forrestpengra (Jan 10, 2010)

Get an H. mac or an S. cal.  I think you'll enjoy them... They are arboreal but they certainly have the attitude you deserve...

Good Luck


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## Xian (Jan 10, 2010)

Might I suggest you just use the search function. You'll find all the info you need and won't be exposed to ridicule for not doing your research first.


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## Mack&Cass (Jan 10, 2010)

When you word your post saying you want a badass 'mofo' T, it really comes across that you're trying to be macho, hence why you're getting "flamed".

I can see why so many people are getting angry at your post, our hobby is under enough scrutiny as it is, and none of us want to see a person who only has an A. avic sling get something like an H. mac, get bit, and who knows what may happen after that.

I agree with Ariel, maybe you should get something in between first with a bit of speed and a bit stronger venom to get used to before you jump in with both feet. I think maybe something like an Acanthoscurria or Phormictopus, or Pampho...even a Lasiodora parahybana. 

Good luck.

Cass


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## shanebp (Jan 10, 2010)

Ariel said:


> I don't hope you get bit, but still, I DO suggest you start somewhere else. I can understand your want for a more defensive spider, I tend to lean towards those species as well, but I didn't get my first defensive species until after I'd already owned 5 other species. Like someone else said, you'll probably end up with more than just one other T, take your time!
> 
> Edit:
> I see you're planning the look into the OBT (P. murinus). This is the species I was talking about, my 6th T. I agree, they're bullet proof, and they're very very defensive, but they have a NASTY bite, read the bite reports to make sure you know EXACTLY what you're getting into with this species. Also they're not really a ground species, more semi-arboreal. They're also really fast.


I'll be sure to check into the bite reports and see what the deal is before I actually order anything. Was leaning towards the OBT until you mentioned the semi arboreal part.. do you have any other suggestions other than the OBT? I'm looking for a pure ground species (because I already have an arboreal, trying to mix it up a bit). 

Also, thanks for everyones concern, but this is my mindset and i'm going to get an aggressive/defensive T despite everyones warning. So a little more information instead of persuasion to not do what i'm doing would be great. Thanks!


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## forrestpengra (Jan 10, 2010)

Condescension aside, I think a Lasiodora parahybana might be good suggestion.  They get massive quickly (9-10") and tend to have a bit of attitude.  

Avics are known to be one of the most docile T's in the market.  consider something in between because there is a huge difference between a beginner T and an advanced species.  These comments are for your own good.  

T venom is only one component of a bite.  You also have to consider the mechanical damage, potential damage to your T, the chance that your reaction might kill your T, the chance that your T might get out and hurt someone else.... I could go on and on...  For anyone sensitive to 'stings' (bees, etc...) this could cause significant reaction and potential death.  You must consider these things before purchasing... MUST


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## Jilly1337 (Jan 10, 2010)

OBT's are more terrestrial than arboreal, IMO.  They construct web tunnels similar to an arboreal but they build them on and in the substrate.  Again, L. parahybana and C.cyaneopubescens would be good too.  Youtube has a lot of interesting videos of all of these species.  Search for them and you can see them in action. While you're at it, check out I hirsutum.  It's arboreal but one of the fastest spiders out there, IMO.


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## Xian (Jan 10, 2010)

Mack&Cass said:


> I can see why so many people are getting angry at your post, our hobby is under enough scrutiny as it is,
> 
> Cass



What scrutiny is this hobby under?


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## satanslilhelper (Jan 10, 2010)

I'll recommend that you look into Pamphobeteus species. They're rather large and extremely aggressive "eaters". They will also defend their territory very well. I think you'll be fine with whatever you get. My 3rd T was a Poeciletheria regalis. My 53rd and 54th respectively are Pamphobeteus platyommas and they can make me flinch more than any of my other T's. Check my profile I have all of mine listed. Good luck with whatever you choose. 

Welcome to the addiction!!


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## curiousme (Jan 10, 2010)

Alright, i have to throw my post in with the lot.............

Ts are defensive, not aggressive.  Some are very defensive of their territory and honestly who can blame them.  Giant hands/ tongs messing around their home, you'd get defensive of your home too if it happened to you.  Calling Ts aggressive does nothing but hurt this hobby.  If you tell someone that you have an aggressive pet, they will think that it will purposely try to find them and hurt them.  You tell them it is defensive and they know not to mess with it.  It's all in the wording and yours was.............. well poor.  

That said, P. _murinus_ is defensive, beautifully colored and hardy.  So far, our 3" acts more like a terrestrial than arboreal at the moment.  So yes, it is semi-arboreal, but temperament and habits are different from T to T.  

We also have a N. _chromatus_ that is a bit snarky and is striking to look at as well.  It is a terrestrial as well.


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## mike88 (Jan 10, 2010)

What about a Ceratogyrus. Sp.??? they look awsome with the horns there known to web alot and there also pretty defensive?


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## shanebp (Jan 10, 2010)

satanslilhelper said:


> I'll recommend that you look into Pamphobeteus species. They're rather large and extremely aggressive "eaters". They will also defend their territory very well. I think you'll be fine with whatever you get. My 3rd T was a Poeciletheria regalis. My 53rd and 54th respectively are Pamphobeteus platyommas and they can make me flinch more than any of my other T's. Check my profile I have all of mine listed. Good luck with whatever you choose.
> 
> Welcome to the addiction!!


Thanks for the input guys, maybe i'll have a look into the Pamph species, nobody else has mentioned it yet. And I agree, i'm sure i'll be fine with whatever I choose, thanks again!!


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## paul fleming (Jan 10, 2010)

there really are "aggressive" T's.....I have one so I know
http://www.thespidershop.co.uk/insect/product_info.php?products_id=2007


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## curiousme (Jan 10, 2010)

paul fleming said:


> therev really are "aggressive" T's.....I have one so I know
> http://www.thespidershop.co.uk/insect/product_info.php?products_id=2007


You are simply misinterpreting defensive behavior IMO.  How on earth do you know whether *you* did something to put it on the defensive or not?  Air currents can do it, all by themselves.


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## Mack&Cass (Jan 10, 2010)

Xian said:


> What scrutiny is this hobby under?


There are a lot of groups trying to ban exotic animals all together. All exotic pets are under scrutiny, and last time I checked, arachnids are exotic pets. Arachnids don't exactly have the best PR, a lot of people are either disgusted or frightened by them. If it wasn't a problem, why are T's already banned in a lot of places? Why is it illegal to ship them? 

Bill S373 is a good example of the influence private groups can place on politicians regarding exotic pets. If they're going to start doing it with non-venemous snakes, what's stopping them from targeting arachnids? Where are they going to draw the line?

Cass


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## andy375hh (Jan 10, 2010)

If you want a defensive/agressive T get an OBT Just make sure you use common sense when feeding, or routine cage cleaning. And dont ever try to hold them.


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## paul fleming (Jan 10, 2010)

curiousme said:


> You are simply misinterpreting defensive behavior IMO.  How on earth do you know whether *you* did something to put it on the defensive or not?  Air currents can do it, all by themselves.


Unless you own one,how can you possibly say that ?
The one I have will try to get at you from behind the glass if you get too close where "air currents" cannot come into it.
Get one and see for yourself.
I also keep all the usual stuff.....H.mac,pokies,murinus,other baboons,M.gigas,hahni and more and the dichromata is in a different league as far as being aggressive is concerned.


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## curiousme (Jan 10, 2010)

The S. _calceatum_ is arboreal.


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## paul fleming (Jan 10, 2010)

http://www.thebts.co.uk/selenocosmia.htm

If you don't want to read it all......I'll just quote this from it.

*Selenocosmia is virtually unknown in captivity. Their extreme aggression and dull integument makes them unpopular with the pet trade and as a consequence they have become something of a collectors animal*

* Selenocosmia are considered to be one of the fastest and most aggressive of all tarantulas. Very little is known regarding the potency of their venom although it is considered by many to be one of the most toxic.*


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## TarantulaFanBoy (Jan 10, 2010)

I suggest a Pterinochilus murinus. There Very Affordable. There very hardy There Very fast. There Very Aggressive. And there Very potent ( In terms of venom ) When you get bit.... Which you will. Please do post a bite report Id just LOVE to read it


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## paul fleming (Jan 10, 2010)

As said earlier......P.murinus are in no way aggressive but merely defensive as are most T's.


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## TarantulaFanBoy (Jan 10, 2010)

paul fleming said:


> As said earlier......P.murinus are in no way aggressive but merely defensive as are most T's.


My mistake Messiah


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## paul fleming (Jan 10, 2010)

TarantulaFanBoy said:


> My mistake Messiah


Don't worry about it ;P
seriously though,they will only normally go into a classic OBT threat pose if you bother them.


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## Ariel (Jan 10, 2010)

paul fleming said:


> Don't worry about it ;P
> seriously though,they will only normally go into a classic OBT threat pose if you bother them.


this, really is true...

When I first got my _P. murinus_ "Zeni"(and silly me, bought an adult instead of a sling.) I was expectly flying legs and fangs, but she's really not all that bad. Of course, I don't really mess with her either, but he only time I've ever gotten a threat out of her was when I disturbed her or her webbing. But that doesn't mean I'd reccomend one to someone who's only experiance is an avic sling.


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## Mvskokee (Jan 10, 2010)

Get a ceratogyrus sp. Cool have a horn and are defensive. Get a sling you should be fine getting used to its temperment.


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## paul fleming (Jan 10, 2010)

Actually my marshalli along with my pachypus are the most chilled baboons I have.If they are out,they will normally flee underground if disturbed.
Don't normally see much of them anyway,they only come out late at night.
Cracking T's though,both of them.


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## Mvskokee (Jan 10, 2010)

Thats why i would go with them.Very cool spider plus you can get used to any sling. Just use common sense and you should be fine. Its not rocket science.Respect the T and prepare for the worst,


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## Protectyaaaneck (Jan 11, 2010)

Get your hands on a MM blue fang.  It is the most "aggressive" T I own.


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## funguy@heart (Jan 11, 2010)

Well said.  I don't think you realize how fast an over defensive tarantula can be.  Ther is a youtube video showing how fast a Cobalt can move and I think that's a slow one


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## Mina (Jan 11, 2010)

Its none of anyone business but your own.  If you want an aggressive T, then that means you think you are ready to deal with one and you will get one regardless of, or possibly, in spite of, what other people say.
To answer your question, the only truly aggressive, not defensive, T I have had was a wild caught adult female H. vonwirthi.  A friend of mine dug her out of her burrow to look at her and she purposefully went after him with the intent to bite him.  She was chasing his hand as he moved it away from her.
I wish you luck with your new interest.


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## Obelisk (Jan 11, 2010)

B8709 said:


> Wow. I'm still kinda new here so I don't know if I speak for everyone else, but I really do hope you get your hands on the most vicious T. Write back, if you can move your fingers, and tell us how that went. I HATE it when people get stuff to try to appear tough. That's just like my next door white trash neighbor who chains up his pitbull.


I think the OP just expects to get a kick out of keeping a defensive T, not because it'll make him look tough. 

If someone is under the impression that keeping a defensive species will make them look tough or something, then they have bigger issues than not having that "aggressive T" that they want. The hobby doesn't need individuals like that. 

I'm getting an OBT as well, though I'm getting one despite it's attitude, not because of it.


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## Kamikaze (Jan 11, 2010)

try getting a Ceratogyrus darlingi or Ceratogyrus marshalli. Not only are they defensive, they are also very fast. They look good too with their horns and all . Good luck!


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## satanslilhelper (Jan 11, 2010)

Mina said:


> Its none of anyone business but your own.  If you want an aggressive T, then that means you think you are ready to deal with one and you will get one regardless of, or possibly, in spite of, what other people say.
> To answer your question, the only truly aggressive, not defensive, T I have had was a wild caught adult female H. vonwirthi.  A friend of mine dug her out of her burrow to look at her and she purposefully went after him with the intent to bite him.  She was chasing his hand as he moved it away from her.
> I wish you luck with your new interest.


Mine was like this when I got it from the petstore. Since I've brought her home and had her she's become much calmer though. At the pet store just opening her tank put her in a threat pose and she was striking at me from across the tank when I took the sponge out to explain to the employee only the water bowl was necessary. I don't mess with her when she's in her burrow, but when she's out and I open the tank she's not  aggressive. Probably very defensive if I were to fool with her any.


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## Xian (Jan 11, 2010)

Mack&Cass said:


> There are a lot of groups trying to ban exotic animals all together. All exotic pets are under scrutiny, and last time I checked, arachnids are exotic pets. Arachnids don't exactly have the best PR, a lot of people are either disgusted or frightened by them. If it wasn't a problem, why are T's already banned in a lot of places? Why is it illegal to ship them?
> 
> Bill S373 is a good example of the influence private groups can place on politicians regarding exotic pets. If they're going to start doing it with non-venemous snakes, what's stopping them from targeting arachnids? Where are they going to draw the line?
> 
> Cass


I understand your points!
I wouldn't call keeping spiders, 'exotic pets', anymore than I'd call an ant farm 'exotic'. I don't consider anything that you can buy at a Petco to be 'exotic', but that's just me.
I'm not familiar with any places that tarantulas are banned.
Why is it illegal to ship them? Ignorant uneducated people make those rules I guess.
Let's hope it stays this way for your sake, because if this hobby becomes common and mainstream, you'll have to get rid of your T's, because that's how you are.


Mack&Cass said:


> I'm the kind of person who hates things that are really popular, and I try to avoid those things. I don't like monkeys or horses because everyone else does, I hate Twilight, I got my belly button pierced before every girl in the world decided it was the cool new thing, and then when it did become that, I took mine out. I always liked being different, and the looks and comments I get when people find out I keep reptiles, satisfies me because I know what I'm doing is considered weird, and I love it.
> 
> 
> 
> Cass


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## Steve Calceatum (Jan 11, 2010)

Check into some Aussie T's or maybe a _C. crawshayi._ Honestly though, there are no aggressive tarantulas. Until I see one trying to get out with the sole purpose of chewing my face off, I'm not willing to put such a negative label on such a beautiful creature.

The most defensive species you can find is an arboreal by the name of _Stromatopelma calceatum._ Unlike your Avic, this one lives in a web retreat that extends into a subterraineal burrow. They are extremely touchy, uber-mean, balls-out fast, and possess one of the worst bites in the hobby. If you think you're up to that kind of a challenge, then this is the one to get.

Lastly, you did come off as being an arrogant alpha-male type. I sincerely hope this is not the case, and you thoroughly research your options before getting a T just because it's mean. Defensive T's present a whole set of challenges that alot of new keepers are not prepared for. Most can move rather quickly, and alot of them will possess either a nasty bite or extremely irritating hairs. Almost all of them will either bolt or attack with unrivaled speed and tenacity, even when only slightly provoked.

On the other hand, some people rather enjoy this type of tarantula. However, considering you only have an Avic avic sling, I would highly suggest that you get something about middle-of-the-road until you get used to how a tarantula moves, and reacts to you. Otherwise, you are risking an escape, a bite, or both.

Good luck!!!!


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## paul fleming (Jan 11, 2010)

you are probably right about there being no such thing as an aggressive tarantula....after all,what does Ray Hale from the BTS know anyway 
I don't see what is so hard to accept that Selenocosmia are aggressive.
Not sure if anyone here actually keeps them but if you did,you would see for yourselves.
I don't suppose there are any aggressive snakes either ?


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## x Mr Awesome x (Jan 11, 2010)

I agree with Paul. I understand the reason to not label a tarantula as aggressive but that sort of nature by all reasoning would be considered aggressive. So what? And stop flaming this guy!!! Jeesh! We don't need thirty people relaying the same silly advice over and over again. And why the heck did everyone decide to attack his apparant 'alpha male-ism'? Seems to me a lot of you guys are probably guilty of reading a little too far in to his post. There's also absolutely no need to wish him to get bit. I wonder how many of you "experts" have been bitten personally? I'd be willing to bet very few. Stop acting like just because we've all read the same bite reports posts that we're all a bunch of know it alls. He doesn't sound like a fool and by all means probably would just appreciate the thrill of having a more defensive species to compliment his Avic. That's exactly what I did and I am happier for it. Now I prefer old worlds. Big whoop. To OP. African species are awesome. I'd highly recommend the Ceratogyrus marshalli. Get a beautiful female. They stridulate and throw threats with little provocation. Be careful and have fun!!!


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## shanebp (Jan 11, 2010)

x Mr Awesome x said:


> I agree with Paul. I understand the reason to not label a tarantula as aggressive but that sort of nature by all reasoning would be considered aggressive. So what? And stop flaming this guy!!! Jeesh! We don't need thirty people relaying the same silly advice over and over again. And why the heck did everyone decide to attack his apparant 'alpha male-ism'? Seems to me a lot of you guys are probably guilty of reading a little too far in to his post. There's also absolutely no need to wish him to get bit. I wonder how many of you "experts" have been bitten personally? I'd be willing to bet very few. Stop acting like just because we've all read the same bite reports posts that we're all a bunch of know it alls. He doesn't sound like a fool and by all means probably would just appreciate the thrill of having a more defensive species to compliment his Avic. That's exactly what I did and I am happier for it. Now I prefer old worlds. Big whoop. To OP. African species are awesome. I'd highly recommend the Ceratogyrus marshalli. Get a beautiful female. They stridulate and throw threats with little provocation. Be careful and have fun!!!


Its great to know some people understand what I meant by my OP. Thanks for understanding and a great suggestion! I'm still looking into all the great suggestions everyone has mentioned so my mind isn't totally made up yet. Its so hard to choose when they are all so cool!


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## Sevenrats (Jan 11, 2010)

Get an OBT.


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## violentblossom (Jan 11, 2010)

iluvcreepystuff said:


> Hey now don't be talkin smack about AB, this site helps dozens of people every day there aint no telling how many t's the guys on here have saved.


People here DO have a tendency to jump down your throat at the slightest mistake.

Anyway, what about a baboon?


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## DMBizeau (Jan 11, 2010)

Why not a NW terrestrial? That way if he does he bit he won't be in agonizing pain. They might not be quite as defensive, but there are quite a few large defensive species that are slow movers, a much wiser choice and for the average joe usually more impressive to see. Someone who hasnt done the research will not understand the amount of respect needed to own a T like a S. Cal or H. Mac type T. I personally do not own them due to that fact that I know what they are capable of and have no desire to deal with that level of pain from my mistake.

For an affordable option I would recommend a P. Cancerides, thay are usually quite defensive and look very nice as adults.

For a more expensive option you can't go wrong with a T. Blondi, mine tries to bite anything that comes in her space.


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## Spunky (Jan 11, 2010)

Acanthoscuria fracta. I don't have one, but hear they are pretty agressive/defensive.  I also agree with DMBizeau, P. cancerides can be are reasonablely priced and get pretty big and have more attitude the bigger they get. In my experience, they also stay out and make good displays.


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## BrettG (Jan 11, 2010)

Get the OBT.....I was told not to get one for my second T,blahblahblahblah,and I did not listen. Glad I didn't,either,since it has become the favorite in my collection.Use common sense,don't try to play with the damn thing,and you will be FINE.They are not NEARLY as hard to manage as some here make them out to be. But if you DO get tagged,it is really gonna blow.Be smart,be safe,and get whatever the heck kinda T you want!


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## Moltar (Jan 11, 2010)

I think you'd do well to start with something "moderately defensive" rather than the nastiest thing you can find. Those suggesting a Ceratogyrus are onto something IMO. They are fairly defensive but not the quivering ball of unbridled fury some T's can be. Plus their tunneling behavior when young is awesome!

If you're new to T's and your only experience is with (what'd you say, an A. avic?) then the dramatic difference in behavior may be more than you're ready for. Keep in mind that with defensive nature comes an increased likelihood for escape, as they can/will run _out of their container_ in the process of trying to fang you. Then you have a dangerous tarantula running around the room that you need to deal with; not always fun or easy, especially if you're lacking experience with such things. There is a whole skill set associated with keeping feistier T's that has to be learned via experience which you just don't have yet.

I suggest you start with a Ceratogyrus or an OBT (yikes) or maybe a feistier NW like A. geniculata, P. cancerides or N. coloratovillosus. From your wording in the original post I think you may be seeking a dangerously fiesty, venomous animal for the wrong reason or without thinking it through. At the risk of coming across as condescending; these aren't like keeping any other pet. An H mac, S. cal, Haplo, etc has the ability to basically kick your ass all over the room if you're unprepared for them and they're having a bad day. If they actually bite you or a friend the consequences are very real. A trip to the ER is often the result of envenomation from some of the more venomous species which also happen to be some of the more defensive.

Get whatever you want (not like anybody here can actually stop you) but please just do research on the species your looking at and be realistic about what you want out of this pet.


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## curiousme (Jan 11, 2010)

x Mr Awesome x said:


> I agree with Paul. I understand the reason to not label a tarantula as aggressive but that sort of nature by all reasoning would be considered aggressive. So what? And stop flaming this guy!!! Jeesh! We don't need thirty people relaying the same silly advice over and over again.


It is *not* silly to tell a person new to the hobby, who only has an A. avicularia *sling*; that maybe he might want to try something intermediary/ look at bite reports, before jumping head first into a species that will behave *very* differently than what he is used to.  It was reiterated many times, because people *don't* wish him to get hurt.  The fact that it has been mentioned so many times may make him think twice about it.  i doubt that is the case here, but no one can_ make_ him do anything.



> And why the heck did everyone decide to attack his apparant 'alpha male-ism'?


Because of these statements:



			
				shanebp said:
			
		

> I want a badass ground T. I want the most vicious mofo I can get my hands on.


He sounded like a teenager trying to be 'cool'/ 'extreme' by having a tarantula.  For me at least, that is seen as hurting the hobby and i feel an obligation to help the hobby not harm it.  It would really suck if legislation was formed to ban them, because of sentiments and statements such as he has made. 



> Seems to me a lot of you guys are probably guilty of reading a little too far in to his post.


His_ own_ statements caused this.  i think it was perfectly reasonable to assume what _most_ people did.



> There's also absolutely no need to wish him to get bit.


Agreed



> I wonder how many of you "experts" have been bitten personally? I'd be willing to bet very few. Stop acting like just because we've all read the same bite reports posts that we're all a bunch of know it alls.


Luckily, i have never been bitten.  However, the people who mentioned to read the bite reports were giving good advice.  Since the OP hasn't done enough research to know what he wants as his next T, perhaps people telling him to read them isn't such a bad idea. 



> He doesn't sound like a fool and by all means probably would just appreciate the thrill of having a more defensive species to compliment his Avic.


i wouldn't say he sounds like fool, but i would say he doesn't seem to have done his _own_ research.  That can be a dangerous thing, which is why so many people have told him to try something intermediate first.



> That's exactly what I did and I am happier for it.


Good for you, but did you do your own research, or did you ask people to tell you what the 'baddest mofo' out there is?

We got a P. _murinus_ and a P. _cambridgei_ in our first batch of slings.  They are now favorites of mine, but the P. murinus was waaaay faster than we anticipated, even though we had done tons of research already.  Until you have dealt with a *fast* spiderling, you won't really understand their speed. 

We owned a MF G. _rosea_ and an A. _metallica_(that later hooked out) first and i would hope if i were wanting to get something hotter/ more defensive and posting here for ideas; someone would advise me like the people in this thread have.  He has received several great ideas for a second T, that is more defensive and i hope he heeds some of the advice given.


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## jebbewocky (Jan 11, 2010)

To OP: I don't have a problem with you getting a defensive T, but we do get kids and/or muscleheads here from time to time looking to get a defensive T to prove something.  Some of the phrases used in the opening post indicated you may have been one of those individuals.  Since reading more of your posts, I personally do not think you fall into this category, I am merely providing some context for the reaction.  We don't know you, and so we can only judge on what we know.  Moving on.


I will second Moltar's advice.  I encourage you, don't go from a teddybear like A.avic, which is one of the most docile T's in the hobby, to hate-on-eight-legs like an S.cal.

Now, that's presuming you don't have experience with other exotics like centipedes, scorpions, or snakes.  If you have some experience with exotics that aren't T's you will find many of the same skills are needed.

Many of the more defensive T's are either arboreal or fossorial (aka "obligate burrower"), which is to say, they burrow and spend most of their time in a burrow.  Terrestrials tend to be on a more even keel, _generally_.

Genera Haplopelma and Ephebopus are two of the more defensive fossorial species, and are also rather attractive spiders.  I have yet to keep either (and won't be keeping Haplos), so I can't vouch for them more than that.  I have no idea if they are intermediate or advanced.


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## Mack&Cass (Jan 11, 2010)

Xian said:


> I understand your points!
> I wouldn't call keeping spiders, 'exotic pets', anymore than I'd call an ant farm 'exotic'. I don't consider anything that you can buy at a Petco to be 'exotic', but that's just me.
> I'm not familiar with any places that tarantulas are banned.
> Why is it illegal to ship them? Ignorant uneducated people make those rules I guess.
> Let's hope it stays this way for your sake, because if this hobby becomes common and mainstream, you'll have to get rid of your T's, because that's how you are.


Okay for one, I don't see how what I said about why I like to keep tarantulas has ANYTHING to do with this thread, or anything else I've said in this thread. Even still, dogs are mainstream and I have one of them, I just said that part of the reason I love keeping T's is how different it is from what other people do. Maybe I should go dig up irrelevant posts of yours and post it on here. And if you would have quoted my ENTIRE post, you would see that I gave other reasons as to why I like T's. 

I don't know about the states, but in Canada there are many cities where you can't keep any venemous animals. Sorry for stating what is said on here tons of times about people doing stuff that could possible put the hobby in jeopardy...you know like all those comments on the "should non-adults be allowed to keep OW T's"...I'm pretty sure that statement was made a million times in that thread.

I don't know what Petco sells because we don't have them in Canada, but are you going to tell me they don't sell reptiles? And that reptiles aren't exotic pets? Some birds are considered exotic pets, pretty much anything but a cat, dog, rodent, or fish is considered exotic by some people.

Anyways I'm not getting into it and just turn this thread into one of those 50 page fight threads that just gets locked. If the OP wants to get a defensive tarantula, then he can go right ahead and do it. I think a Ceratogyrus is a good idea, ours is pretty chill but she's not full grown yet, so we'll see.

Cass


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## D-back (Jan 11, 2010)

Hello Shanebp!

I'm usually a cautious guy. I did get a defensive T (H. lividum-2x.......and later an OBT sling) but only as my 9. and 10. T after 1 and a half years in the hobby. I never advise a very defensive T for a novice on my own. But as you already said, you WILL get that spider, so I won't try to convince you.

At first, please let me to tell you, what is IMO the biggest diference between keeping a gentle T and a defensive one......if you make a mistake with a gentle T, it probably won't punish you for that mistake. The situation is different with a defensive T....you still might get away with it, but the chances of a bite are A LOT higher. The problem is, that most of the defensive Ts are not only defensive but also quick...I mean QUICK......when I got my lividum slings (1,2"), they were in a small deli cup.....one of them was so frightened, that he was running in circles on the wall of the deli cup for a couple of seconds. I did my research so I was expecting a quick spider, but that thing really surprised me....I was merely able to see the spider (maybe an exaggeration but you get my point). I realised, that if a spider like that wants to run onto my 10" tweezers and then tag my hand, I simply might not be able to let go the tweezers before he reaches my hand (this actually happened to my friend). All I want to say with this is, that if you make a mistake, (and novice sometimes make mistakes) those Ts have the perfect weapon to punish you....speed.

I suggest you not to buy an adult spider. If you buy a sling, you have the chance to get used to the speed and attitude. If you decide to buy a sling (or at least a small juvenile), it is important that there are huge differences in the growth rate of different species....if you decide not to buy an adult, it is useful to do a research on this topic.......for example a C. crawshay takes forever to grow, while OBTs grow quite quickly. If you want a terrestrial spider but don't want an obligate burrower, I think the best genus for you might be Pterinochilus or Ceratogyrus. Yes, OBTs are considered semi arboreal, but most of them act like terrestrials and most of the people who I know keep them as terrestrials without any problem. Ceratogyruses do make burrows, but from what I've heard (I have no personal experience with them to back this up) they are out on the open more often than a typical Haplopelma.

Best wishes!


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## The Spider Faery (Jan 11, 2010)

> considering you only have an Avic avic sling, I would highly suggest that you get something about middle-of-the-road until you get used to how a tarantula moves, and reacts to you. Otherwise, you are risking an escape, a bite, or both.


This is a very good point for the op to consider.  

Seriously, if you only have an Avic avic, you don't know the true speed that other types of T's are capable of and how they differ.  An A. avic moves very slow and predictable, imo.  They are one of the best handling T's for this reason.

You need to experience what 'skittish' means before you progress to 'defensive' in my opinion.  

Also the way that terrestrials and arboreals move is very noticably different.  When I got my first arboreal, the first thing I noticed when I transferred it was the way it moves differently.  I'm convinced they have better eyesight than terrestrials, because my A. laeta made transferring SO much easier than most of my other T's.  It seemed to know where it was going, or better, where I wanted it to go, and literally jumped into it's new vial.  Sure, Avics are capable of moving fast, but from what I've noticed, it's only in short bursts of speed, and you can watch which direction they move their legs in to get an idea of where they're going to go.

Skittish terrestrials, on the other hand, have a tendency to just move for the sake of 'getting out of danger' and blindly dart here or there (See any Cyriocosmus species) with no clear objective of where they are going and they'll just keeping going until they feel safe.  

To the OP: I'm assuming you're asking which species is the most aggresive because you want a pet that's 'not boring'.  My advice is to do research.  Defensive may not be exactly what you're looking for, for your 'next fix' and you might find some 'step up' alternative that is a wiser choice to just jumping in with a pet who's behaviour is very unfamiliar to you and risky.

I can honestly say I'm glad I got an Avic before even considering a Poeci.  I could have easily said that I've got a handful of T's already so why would I need the experience, but like I said, arboreals were new to me, and different groups of T's come with very different characteristics that you'd be wise to experience accordingly.


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## Moltar (Jan 11, 2010)

There are consequences other than just being bitten with fast, defensive tarantulas.

Ever seen this classic vid?

[YOUTUBE]<object width="445" height="364"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/HxXrHc9sflA&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0&border=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/HxXrHc9sflA&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="445" height="364"></embed></object>[/YOUTUBE]


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## paul fleming (Jan 11, 2010)

What the OP needs is a list of the more aggressive T's that are capable of putting you on your back for a few days / weeks should he get tagged because the above quality normally goes with the more aggressive T 
H.lightfooti
S.calceatum
H.maculata
H.gigas....although not out and out nasty,these do get to a very nice size.
Any of the haplopelma's but especially consider anything with "earth tiger" in the name.....these are aggressive with potent venom.
Also consider Selenocosmia as well.
There are also some rather "tasty" true spiders too,if you wanted to go down that road......including Macrothele and Atrax or even the Hobo spider.
If you know where to look,there is absolutely no limit to what you can get.


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## shanebp (Jan 11, 2010)

D-back said:


> Hello Shanebp!
> 
> I'm usually a cautious guy. I did get a defensive T (H. lividum-2x.......and later an OBT sling) but only as my 9. and 10. T after 1 and a half years in the hobby. I never advise a very defensive T for a novice on my own. But as you already said, you WILL get that spider, so I won't try to convince you.
> 
> ...



Probably the best info anybody has provided to me yet. Much respect for actually giving me the information I need and helping me out instead of bashing me or trying to convince me to do something else. I'll definitely keep these things in mind..


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## shanebp (Jan 11, 2010)

Moltar said:


> There are consequences other than just being bitten with fast, defensive tarantulas.
> 
> Ever seen this classic vid?



That was the first time I have ever seen that. That spider was really movin!


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## paul fleming (Jan 11, 2010)

To the OP........what are you getting 
The suspense is killing me....lol


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## BrettG (Jan 11, 2010)

....and that video is why I have a huge amount of respect for my P.Murinus.


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## xhexdx (Jan 11, 2010)

Mina said:


> Its none of anyone business but your own.  If you want an aggressive T, then that means you think you are ready to deal with one and you will get one regardless of, or possibly, in spite of, what other people say.
> To answer your question, the only truly aggressive, not defensive, T I have had was a wild caught adult female H. vonwirthi.  A friend of mine dug her out of her burrow to look at her and she purposefully went after him with the intent to bite him.  She was chasing his hand as he moved it away from her.
> I wish you luck with your new interest.


Uh...

If someone broke into your home and started destroying everything in the house, you wouldn't try to hurt/kill/remove the person?

Sorry, but (in my opinion), your example is clearly defensiveness.

If you walked up to the spider and it lunged at you for *NO REASON*, then you're talking aggressive.

Like some snakes, as Paul suggests.

On another note, I don't even know why this thread has evolved to this point (meaning the aggressive/defensive debate).  I mean, there are plenty of threads that have addressed this topic already, couldn't someone have just linked some of them? 

--Joe


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## sAdam (Jan 11, 2010)

wow this thread really set some folks off the edge. 

when i asked if i should get an LP or an OBT as my second T i didn't get near the level of indignation.  actually got the OBT on the advice/experiences of those on here and couldn't be happier.

I say OBT.  tough as nails according to what i've read, and mine is thriving.

and if u already got somethin , then ya, whatdja get???


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## shanebp (Jan 11, 2010)

paul fleming said:


> To the OP........what are you getting
> The suspense is killing me....lol


Hahaha, i'm kinda stuck between 3 species, the Cobalt Blue, OBT, and the S.cal


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## jebbewocky (Jan 11, 2010)

shanebp said:


> Hahaha, i'm kinda stuck between 3 species, the Cobalt Blue, OBT, and the S.cal



I recommend the OBT.  Lots of attitude, bright orange, hardy, and you can get slings for all of $3+shipping or so.


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## Jilly1337 (Jan 11, 2010)

Another vote for OBT.  You just can't go wrong.  If you get a wild hair, you can even house them communally down the road.  You'll probably end up with all three or more eventually anyway, lol.


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## TarantulaFanBoy (Jan 11, 2010)

OMG im so excited!!! Get the S cal dude DO IT!!!! you know you want to  S cal is the best!!!!!


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## curiousme (Jan 11, 2010)

i will add my vote for P. _murinus_.  Get a small sling as they are fascinating to watch grow and you get to become accustomed to their speed gradually.  

Here are a few pics of our P. _murinus_ as it has grown.


Current size after a year and two months and some attitude(scroll down one pic)


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## billopelma (Jan 11, 2010)

Question to the OP. 
What behavior is it you expect from an aggressive/defensive T that makes you want one? 
Most of them don't just run around all the time slapping their legs and gnashing their fangs with venom dripping out. Unless maybe there is external stimuli. Are you planning to regularly tease it to get a rise? Doesn't sound like that's your intent.
Many, including some of the popular suggestions here like H. lividium and S. calceatum, are very secretive and rarely ever seen at all ('pet hole'). While OBT's are a good option they eventually web up the whole enclosure and usually run and hide in it at the slightest disturbance.

The most aggressive behavior I see from any of mine is in their feeding response and some of the most interesting and crazy ones are not defensive at all. The biggest problem I think you face is finding an individual T that fits this image as the most badass mofo. Going by species alone is a crap shoot at best as various individuals have various personalities, some here will tell you their rosea makes their Haplo's look tame.
I typically keep 80 or so T's with a pretty even mix of OW/NW and have yet to encounter one that would be what you seem to be looking for.
I have or have had most of the genus/sp. mentioned here and none exhibit this extreme 'defensiveness' on anything but the rarest of occasions. Even if you manage to find a really evil one that charges the glass every time you walk in the room, they often don't remain that way for long. They change as they grow and are rarely consistent over long periods of time. 

In my opinion you'd be best off getting something along the lines of the already suggested A. geniculata, P. cancerides, Pampho's or even G. actaeon. 
Not because they're 'safer' but simply because they're super aggressive eaters and even more importantly are consistent eaters. 
That and they stay out where you see them most of the time and grow quickly, to large sizes. Believe me, while it has it's points, watching an H. minax hold a threat pose for two hours gets old after a while, as does watching crickets disappear down a hole in the dirt. 
I'd way rather watch an LP run around trying to stuff 14 crickets in it's face.  Though I guess it mostly depends on what your answer to the first question is...


Bill


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## shanebp (Jan 12, 2010)

curiousme said:


> i will add my vote for P. _murinus_.  Get a small sling as they are fascinating to watch grow and you get to become accustomed to their speed gradually.
> 
> Here are a few pics of our P. _murinus_ as it has grown.
> 
> ...


Great pics, he looks awesome!


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## Arachnoholic420 (Jan 12, 2010)

sAdam said:


> wow this thread really set some folks off the edge.



Very touchy subject..... cause most of the People on the boards own a T not for self esteem issues... they actually own them because they love arachnids... regardless if it is docile or defensive/aggressive.... the post just put a bad taste on some member's mouth... thas all IMO...


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## that70sshow (Jan 12, 2010)

to the op..

my first t was a mature rosie. 3 weeks later i got myself an obt and versicolor. as long as your smart and precausious with your stuff than im sure you will be fine


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## PaMBiX (Jan 12, 2010)

Myfirst was an a avic, second a rosea, third a lividum, fourth p murinus  and fifth a regalis all within a few months. Year later I have 20 something. Don't worry about it, common sense is all it takes.   I'd go with the obt by the way


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## Arachnobrian (Jan 12, 2010)

shanebp said:


> Hahaha, i'm kinda stuck between 3 species, the Cobalt Blue, OBT, and the S.cal


H. lividium - pet hole if proper housing is provided.

OBT - webbed up pet hole if proper housing is provided.

S. cal. - never had one. 

The first two are very interesting species to own, but IMO not the best display spiders if housed properly. 

IMO best bang for the buck, that is a little more forgiving if things go wrong (bite) would have to be the N. chromatus. Grows big (7+), great colours, huge appetite, nasty attitude, adults always visible.

Others to consider, A. geniculata, C. cyan., L. para. all very visible interesting, large growing, "aggressive appetite" spiders.

On the nastier side (venom) consider, P. ornata, P. regalis. Both just as nasty as your three choices, but far more visible and entertaining IMO. 

The others can all be aquired in time, when you have a few visible interesting ones to keep you entertained first. Honestly, they are really boring spiders unless you irritate them, I only saw mine the rare occasion when I woke up at 3 am in the morning, and rehousing which is always fun.


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## brian abrams (Jan 12, 2010)

As a novice, my opinion/advice doesn't carry the same weight as the good advice you've already received from the experienced keepers, who have had all sorts of spiders. On top of that, I actually prefer the NW terrestrials, as opposed to the OW. That being said, if I wanted to add some excitement to my life by geting an aggressive T, I would get the OBT, which seems to be the top choice of others. The cobalt requires much more demanding husbandry (humidity, etc), requiring you to change containers much more often.... Lots of fun with a pet hole you'll have to dig out of its burrow to accomplish this.  Also, You'll never see the damn thing!  The Stromatapelma or Selenocosmia seem to be for experienced keepers who have had all sorts of OW T's, & want to go beyond the thrill of an OBT in terms of speed, aggession, potent venom, etc (DANGER). between th 3 choices, I say get the OBT first (poster-child for aggresive T's), then only later get an S Cal, H Mac, etc later.  Sorry for the long post....


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## xhexdx (Jan 13, 2010)

Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeease stop calling them aggressive...

Sheesh.


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## paul fleming (Jan 13, 2010)

The only one I  said was aggressive happenes to be Selenocosmia dichromata.
This is from experience and not something I have read on the internet.


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## Zoltan (Jan 13, 2010)

Paul, I read your last post, it's _something I've read on the internet_. Let me ask, how much personal experience do you have with this "Satan of tarantulas", the dreadful _Selenocosmia dichromata_? What if somebody has similar experiences with another random species? What if another somebody has similar experiences with another random species? Eventually, we could come to the conclusion that all tarantulas are aggressive and have it in for you (oh, my goodness!). I think there are two possibilities:

a.) You don't understand the definition of the term "aggression", or misinterpret it;

b.) You use a definition of aggression that permits calling all tarantulas "aggressive" that normally would be considered "defensive".


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## xhexdx (Jan 13, 2010)

To attempt to figure out which it is, could you please describe why this spider is aggressive, Paul?


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## pouchedrat (Jan 13, 2010)

I don't think anyone's really lived until they've had a tarantula teleport up their tweezers/tongs right at them, striking the entire time.  

My fourt T was my pretty female blue fang, and she did just that.  She's new world, pretty much a pet hole (their "holes" though, seem to be a construction of a tube using leaves and dirt and everything else they can find, extending straight up or out), but she can move FAST! 

I'm still debating on whether or not I want my first OW, as well... so I'm still learning about these species as well.  My reasons for wanting one are a bit different though, although I do love their attitude.  

It seems everyone and their mother has an OBT.  Plus I hear they're hard to kill ("thrive on neglect" I'm told).  I'd say go with one of those just to see if you like it, they're cheap and plentiful, and like I said everyone seems to have one (but me, lol).   Even my ex got one as his first tarantula.


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## paul fleming (Jan 13, 2010)

xhexdx said:


> To attempt to figure out which it is, could you please describe why this spider is aggressive, Paul?


How about when I get close to the glass.....it attacks the glass with a threat pose...........I have pics of it.
Unless any of you actually own one of these,this conversation is pointless and all you are doing is quoting stuff off the net that anybody can.....in fact quite a lot do it here to be honest.
Over here we call them the internet T experts....no experience just what they saw on the net or somebody told them down the pub.


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## DMBizeau (Jan 13, 2010)

I still dont see how that can be considered aggressive, it sees a huge dark object approaching where it lives and it gets defensive. Granted that is very defensive but doesnt convince me it is aggressive.


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## Muze (Jan 13, 2010)

Hiya, im new here, but not new to spider keeping. I have around 18yrs experience with T's and true spiders.

Paul asked me to pop on here and document some of my experience with Selenocosmia's.

I have found these to be probably the most aggressive tarantula you will get. I say aggressive rather than defensive as that is what in my experience they are. They attack without provocation. I have seen these spiders attacking random objects in the tank even.

We currently have several AF dichromata's and an AF javensis who will actively catapult herself at you when you open her exo...she then continues this action until she is satisfied that you have left her tank, but will remain in a threat posture for a good hour afterwards.

This is definitley not a starter spider.


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## Sadistic Haplo (Jan 13, 2010)

for anyone telling him not to get one..How else will he learn? Experience is the best teacher. The first T I bought was on November 17, 2009 and it was a 2" CB A. Avicularia. Two weeks later I bought an 6" WC/F H. Lividum. One week after that I purchased a 5" CB/F P. Irminia, and One week ago, I purchased a 6" CB G. pulchripes, Did I mention, I tong feed them all? What I'm trying to say is I rushed head first into the hobby and have no regrets but ofcourse I did my research on the exact sp. I was purchasing so I was ready for pretty much everything and so far, I've had no problems in keeping T's. A. Avics currently premolt(should molt in the next couple of days), G. pulchripes is in premolt (hasn't molted since march 2009 and has refused food for well over a month) P irminia has webbed up her den, so i'll attempt to feed her today but I assume she's in premolt.

if anyones got some MM p irminias, h lividums or g pulchripes let me know!


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## curiousme (Jan 13, 2010)

Muze said:


> I have found these to be probably the most aggressive tarantula you will get. I say aggressive rather than defensive as that is what in my experience they are. They attack without provocation. I have seen these spiders attacking random objects in the tank even.


Since *you* are NOT a tarantula, *you* have no idea what *you *could have done to inspire defensiveness.  The vibrations from walking on the floor can alert your T to your presence.  We have Ts that will attack air currents and react to soundwaves, so declaring that it is aggressive because it reacts in a defensive manner for reasons *you* as a human don't understand; does not an aggressive spider make.  It does make a very defensive spider, that is not for the faint at heart or a beginner.



> We currently have several AF dichromata's and an AF javensis who will actively catapult herself at you when you open her exo...she then continues this action *until she is satisfied that you have left her tank*, but will remain in a threat posture for a good hour afterwards.


That sure sounds like a defensive reaction to me...............


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## TarantulaFanBoy (Jan 13, 2010)

Muze said:


> Hiya, im new here, but not new to spider keeping. I have around 18yrs experience with T's and true spiders.
> 
> Paul asked me to pop on here and document some of my experience with Selenocosmia's.
> 
> ...


Lol nice try Paul.


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## Moltar (Jan 13, 2010)

Who the flock cares????? Geez, If I were the OP i'd never come back here after this ridiculous sheetstorm. Can you guys even recall what the actual question here was without going back and reading it?

Aggressive/defensive, who gives a crap? You guys just want to be right...

I think defensive is always the appropriate term but i'm not arguing about it. Call it whatever you want. Better yet, start (yet another) thread about it instead of ruining this one. Misguided though the original question may have been, he sure as heck never asked what the proper terminology for an angry spider was.

Some of you need to stop trolling and others need to stop feeding them.


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## AprilH (Jan 13, 2010)

If you want a more defensive species because you want something a little more interesting to watch, a lot of those species (OBT, Cobalt Blue, etc) have a lot of webbing and stay in hiding. I'd have to go with one of the big NW terrestrials as a good step up. 

Some people mentioned P. cancerides and I agree with this one. Mine is an extremely aggressive feeder and will go as far as flipping itself backward sometimes because it grabs the food with so much force. I do see a lot of threat poses when cleaning and upsizing the container, also. They get big, they stay out a lot and seem pretty active even when you're not doing anything with them. My L. parahybanas, A. geniculatas, and N. chromatus are out a lot also, but tend to be hair kickers more than anything.


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## Zoltan (Jan 13, 2010)

Jeez, curiousme, are you psychic?  I was going to post something very similar to that...


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## paul fleming (Jan 13, 2010)

curiousme said:


> Since *you* are NOT a tarantula, *you* have no idea what *you *could have done to inspire defensiveness.  The vibrations from walking on the floor can alert your T to your presence.  We have Ts that will attack air currents and react to soundwaves, so declaring that it is aggressive because it reacts in a defensive manner for reasons *you* as a human don't understand; does not an aggressive spider make.  It does make a very defensive spider, that is not for the faint at heart or a beginner.
> 
> 
> 
> That sure sounds like a defensive reaction to me...............


Just one question for you......have you ever kept any of the Selenocosmia species ?
I would say you have not judging by your answer.......the same goes for everyone else who says the same


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## Jilly1337 (Jan 13, 2010)

Well, I see things haven't change much around here in the last 5 years, lol.


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## Zoltan (Jan 13, 2010)

Paul, what does that have to do with the question at hand? I fully agree with curiousme. In my opinion this...


Muze said:


> We currently have several AF dichromata's and an AF javensis who will actively catapult herself at you when you open her exo...she then continues this action until she is satisfied that you have left her tank, but will remain in a threat posture for a good hour afterwards.


...only means that the spider has a lower stimulus threshold - it takes less "intrusion" to trigger a reaction from the spider, and it means it perceives even the opening of the enclosure as a threat and tries to ward off the threat. That, in my eyes, doesn't make it _aggressive_ compared to other spiders (if you call other spiders defensive), just _more defensive_-- just as, let's say: generally _Pterinochilus murinus_ is more defensive than _Brachypelma emilia_, and so _Selenocosmia dichromata_ is more defensive than _Pterinochilus murinus_.


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## paul fleming (Jan 13, 2010)

You really need to aquire one of these beauties to see for yourself.You will not be  dissapointed.
Going by what you said......the Dendroaspis Polylepis is also defensive then and not a bit aggressive.


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## Xian (Jan 13, 2010)

paul fleming said:


> You really need to aquire one of these beauties to see for yourself.You will not be  dissapointed.
> Going by what you said......the Dendroaspis Polylepis is also defensive then and not a bit aggressive.


I'm not trying to get in the middle of this, but here's a quick quote I found.....

"When cornered, it will readily attack. When in the striking position, the mamba flattens its neck, hisses very loudly and displays its inky black mouth and fangs. It can rear up around one-third of its body from the ground, which allows it to reach heights of approximately four feet. However, the black mamba would rather attempt to avoid a confrontation with humans."

Sounds defensive to me.


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## redrumpslump (Jan 13, 2010)

I would personally get a s.cal get it from a large breeder who has obt slings and im sure they would throw an obt in as a freebie.


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## paul fleming (Jan 13, 2010)

It's pretty easy to find something on the net that fits in with the way you want it be.

"Black mambas are fast, nervous, lethally venomous, and when threatened, *highly aggressive*. They have been blamed for numerous human deaths, and African myths exaggerate their capabilities to legendary proportions."
It means nothing.


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## Xian (Jan 13, 2010)

paul fleming said:


> It's pretty easy to find something on the net that fits in with the way you want it be.
> 
> "Black mambas are fast, nervous, lethally venomous, *and when threatened,* highly aggressive. They have been blamed for numerous human deaths, and African myths exaggerate their capabilities to legendary proportions."


Your point is true, I have no bias here on this topic however, that was just the first thing I found on the Black Mamba. I moved your Bold back a little.


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## TheTsupreme (Jan 13, 2010)

Moltar said:


> Aggressive/defensive, who gives a crap? You guys just want to be right...
> 
> Misguided though the original question may have been, he sure as heck never asked what the proper terminology for an angry spider was.


Couldnt have said it better, as I am refreshing the site many times a day I always think it some new suggestions, or the guy saying what he had finally ordered and what his impression was. But i just keep refreshing to the same <edit>, of what is really what defensive, agressive seleno .. ? attackin soundwaves.. bla bla bla...


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## paul fleming (Jan 13, 2010)

TheTsupreme said:


> Couldnt have said it better, as I am refreshing the site many times a day I always think it some new suggestions, or the guy saying what he had finally ordered and what his impression was. But i just keep refreshing to the same <edit>, of what is really what defensive, agressive seleno .. ? attackin soundwaves.. bla bla bla...


The OP may be about getting an S.dichromata.
He has PM me for more info on mine...
edit
the last thing I want is to start arguments but so far,I seem to be the only one on this forum with a dichromata and I KNOW they are aggressive as would anybody else know if they had one.
I keep all sorts of "nasty" things and this thing is the daddy as far as aggression goes.


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## spiderfield (Jan 13, 2010)

Shane, if you're looking for a good-sized display T that is always out and gives a great feeding response, i'd suggest an _A. geniculata_ or _A. brocklehursti_.  I own the latter and in addition to being out all the time she throws up threat postures everytime I refill her water dish, pull out leftover prey items, look at her the wrong way, you name it...plus they've got leg banding going for them, so they also stand out.  Exactly what I think you're looking for!


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## billopelma (Jan 13, 2010)

You could compromise and call it 'aggressively defensive', just as Paul is 'aggressively redundant'...;P.

Bill


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## Xian (Jan 13, 2010)

billopelma said:


> You could compromise and call it 'aggressively defensive', just as Paul is 'aggressively redundant'...;P.
> 
> Bill


It might be 'defensively aggressive', but either way I'm ROFL!!!!!!!!


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## paul fleming (Jan 13, 2010)

billopelma said:


> You could compromise and call it 'aggressively defensive', just as Paul is 'aggressively redundant'...;P.
> 
> Bill


That's a good un ;P
All I want is for one of our friends across the pond to get one......then the fun will begin...lol


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## curiousme (Jan 13, 2010)

This is definitely an agree to disagree situation..................

OP ~ do let us know what you get!


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## Muze (Jan 14, 2010)

Im afraid i am not Paul, im female and a little younger (sorry Paul ) and live approx 200 miles further north in the UK. If you would care to look at a few of the forums in the UK (i'll happily provide links) you will see i am a separate person.

I would be happy to agree that these are aggressivley defensive if you would prefer to word it like that.
I would defintley say they have the worst temper of any spider if it was to be put into human terms.

Im not sure if you have Selenocosmias available to you in the States, i hope you do. For the experienced keeper they are a wonderful spider to own and certainly keep you on your toes.

I did make it clear in my first post that these are for people with experience, i would never suggest anyone new to the hobby, or anyone with limited experience to acquire one of these.


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## TarantulaFanBoy (Jan 14, 2010)

I Doubt that the Tarantula is Aggressive. Not many Animals really are too Aggressive. And plus there is such a Thin line Separating "Aggression" from "Defensive". One could argue if you are on an animals territory it would become "Aggressive" towards you. But one could also argue that it wouldn't be "aggression" but an act of "Defense". So you walk into the room and its trying to chew its way out of its enclosure to bite you multiple times.? Or are you just minding your own business and it comes breaking out of its enclosure Gunning for you. Because for me That is what i would Define "Aggression" as....


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