# Unexpected and AWESOME Find (RED Burrowing Spider)



## davisfam (Oct 10, 2010)

We found this beautiful little gal last night in our back yard. She was found outside of her burrow but once she saw the flashlight she quickly retreated back to her burrow where we proceeded to draw her out with a peice of grass. Her burrow went straight down and then turned making a "L" shape, if you can get the picture, LOL! She is quick and is pretty good at jumping when she wants to. We didn't catch her attacking the mealworm we fed her so we're not sure on her eating habits as of right now but sure is fiesty! 

Heck, she could be a common burrowing spider to Florida that I just haven't come across yet but we just haven't had the time to do research this morning for an ID. She is just red, unique, and super pretty! 

*Here are a few pictures I managed to snap this morning:*


















* We'll take more pictures later on this afternoon too! :razz:


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## DoucheBgalo (Oct 10, 2010)

I've found a couple of burrowing spiders that look like those. I don't know if they're the same species since I live in California, but I've caught a few. Putting them in jars with dirt and stuff. They're pretty awesome, though in my experience they only lived for a few months. They eat a lot of earwigs and rolypolies though.


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## davisfam (Oct 10, 2010)

DoucheBgalo said:


> I've found a couple of burrowing spiders that look like those. I don't know if they're the same species since I live in California, but I've caught a few. Putting them in jars with dirt and stuff. They're pretty awesome, though in my experience they only lived for a few months. They eat a lot of earwigs and rolypolies though.


Do you remember the species? I would like to do a little research, if you don't mind because I can't find much information on this little gal.


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## DoucheBgalo (Oct 10, 2010)

davisfam said:


> Do you remember the species? I would like to do a little research, if you don't mind because I can't find much information on this little gal.


I'm sorry man. I didn't do a whole lot of research on what I caught. I was pretty young and I just thought that keeping them would be cool or something.


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## Venom (Oct 10, 2010)

Perhaps a species of _Coras _?


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## davisfam (Oct 11, 2010)

Venom said:


> Perhaps a species of _Coras _?


Thanks for the guess but it's def. not of the Genus Coras nor is she from the Amaurobiidae (Hacklemesh Weaver) Family. The eye arrangements between our unidentified gal and a Hacklemesh Weaver are completely different.

Considering her eye pattern, we are thinking she belongs to the Lycosidae Family. We're just not sure on a Genus, nor a species. I'll have to do some more investigating but we sure do appreciate the help! Thanks!


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## John Apple (Oct 11, 2010)

sosippus.....


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## davisfam (Oct 12, 2010)

John Apple said:


> sosippus.....


Hmm.. well, she wasn't found in a funnel-type of web but a burrow in the ground. Also, she hasn't formed any funnel webs in her new home but she's created a burrow therefore, I don't think the Funnel Web Wolf Spider is this little gal's ID, sorry. 

Nice guess though because I found a great match between our little red gal and another within that genus, just no matches on major characteristics that are needed for a definate ID.  Thanks, we appreciate the help!


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## Silberrücken (Oct 13, 2010)

Wow, what a great find!!!! She is beautiful! I will ask some friends if they are familiar with this Wolfie, maybe one of them will give you an ID, or at least an idea... will post back here soon if they know anything.
Congrats on your new pretty girl! :clap:   S.


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## Silberrücken (Oct 13, 2010)

I found a few pics of a Pardosa milvina that looks very very similar to your girl. Here is the link to the pics (hope the link works), check it out. Maybe your girl is such a brilliant red 'cause she is newly molted?

Let me know what you think!

PS  will see the friends later today, will post their replies later.
S.

http://www.pbase.com/tmurray74/wolf_spiders_genus_pardosa


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## davisfam (Oct 13, 2010)

Silberrücken said:


> I found a few pics of a Pardosa milvina that looks very very similar to your girl. Here is the link to the pics (hope the link works), check it out. Maybe your girl is such a brilliant red 'cause she is newly molted?
> 
> Let me know what you think!
> 
> ...


Thank you soo much, we appreciate the kind words!  It's funny that you mention the Genus paradosa because I was doing a little searching around the internet and came to the same conclusion; Paradosa. Her legs are just so thin compared to the other Wolfiies we've come across in Florida which immediatly made me think Paradosa in the beginning but I wasn't 100% sure.

The link worked and I def. think you might have nailed it besides her coloring being so vivid although it is very likely that our little gal did just have a fresh molt right before finding her, good thinking! :worship: I'll keep a close eye on any color changes, etc. We are leaving her alone for a few days (besides meals) since she is in a new environment and needs to adjust, of course! 

We appreciate ALL the help, such a nice favor! Thanks again and yes, please let us know if any friends have ANY information! Have a great day!


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## Silberrücken (Oct 13, 2010)

Aww, shux... now I'm blushing like an :8o schoolgirl....    

I am always glad to help with ID's, and to hit on a positive makes it worthwhile! The Pardosas that I kept all loved Green Bottle Fly larvae, which I collect from my "Fly Breeding Traps". (That's a secret 'recipe', LOL)

Small flies such as gnats, fruit flies, houseflies, are a treat for them, but are difficult to deal with at feeding time. I always 'disabled' the flies so as to make them easier for the spiders to catch. Pinheads are great too, along with the aforementioned fly larvae.

Good luck with your Girl, and I hope she settles in well! Will reply back this evening with my friend's input. Take care and see you later!   S.


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## Silberrücken (Oct 13, 2010)

So, I did chat with my friend about this spider, and he & his wife both agreed on Pardosa-but neither could remember if it was 'milvina'. Their Studies have led them away from Arachnology for the time being. 
IMHO, I think your pretty one is exactly that, Pardosa milvina.

Good luck with her, and keep us updated on her progress! S.


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## Silberrücken (Oct 14, 2010)

Have you found new info that makes you question the P. milvina ID? Actually, I have some new to share too...   :?

In my pic archives, I have a Pardosa milvina... "positively ID'd"....   BUT....  well, a pic will explain...  

Now....  I am quite confused.....   and also my brain has kicked into high gear-I want to find the correct ID for your spidie....   :wall:

Don't you agree that the pic in the link I provided looks very much like yours?

We need to put our heads together and get to the bottom of this (before I die of curiousity, LOL!)

Let me know what new info you found... I will be sooooo   :8o if I led you in the wrong direction in the search for an correct ID....   S.


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## Silberrücken (Oct 14, 2010)

Hmmmm........

The more I look, the less I think your spider is an Pardosa....   :?:?:?

The eyes are not in the Pardosa's arrangement....   

Yupp, I think we need to dig much deeper into this....

:wall::wall::wall::wall::wall::wall::wall::wall:

Waiting for your reply before venturing any more info...   :8o

S.


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## davisfam (Oct 15, 2010)

We must think right along the exact same path because that's exactly what I was going to tell you, the eye arrangement doesn't match up with that of the Paradosa therefore I think we're wrong, daaarn it!  The P. milvina does indeed look similiar to our little red lady except for the eye pattern; don't think your ID wasn't helpful, you've been a GREAT help in finding "Lady's" (her new name, LOL!) ID.. we appreciate it so much! 

I'll keep researching and keeping you posted on what I find.. don't worry, we'll figure it out together! I have faith in us, Haa! 

* P.S. Sorry, we were out on the hunt most all of yesterday and today so I haven't had the chance to check in on here but we're back now!  We have been looking for a H. carolinensis for about 3-4 weeks now and it's darn near impossible around this area so I think we're going to venture over to Ocala National Forest if time permits this weekend. No complaints about the spider hunt tho because we were able to find a beautiful Geolycosa patellonigra, she is too cute!  Please, keep me posted as well, we appreciate it!


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## Silberrücken (Oct 15, 2010)

I found some pics and info that may be of some interest to you. In your original post, you stated that she was in a burrow... did the opening have any webbing whatsoever around it?

I am thinking Lady is POSSIBLY an Juvie, altho she looks adult to me. The friend I told you about, his wife said they saw a red Funnel-web spider a few years back, but he swears up & down that it was a Wolfie. This got me to thinking: Funnel-web Wolfs....   hmmm...   :?

At this point I am only haphazarding a guess that MAYBE she is some type of Funnel-web Wolf... many of these are red/orange/red-brown.... 

When you have time, and if it is possible... can you take a few pics of her with, say, an Quarter for size comparison? Lady's ID has me stumped, and I'm going in all different 'directions' in my searches. :wall:  LOL!

BTW, off-topic: I have a bunch of H. lenta slings if you're interested. Free to a good home...   

Check out the link below, and see what you think... something tells me this is the wrong Genus, but....  these Wolfies are completely new to me and WOW...  wait til you see some of them!  I want one of each!  

Good luck with your ONF search!!!! That is part of my "stomping grounds"...  I can get to the Northern part of the Forest in 10 minutes!   I hope you find tons of spidies, and you know I wanna know what you found!!!  

Here's the link---   http://bugguide.net/node/view/88343/bgimage

PS-Don't forget something warm, the mornings will be chilly!   S.


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## davisfam (Nov 1, 2010)

*UPDATE!! (November 1st)*

Our unidentified Wolfiie molted last evening; she came out of her burrow a little larger in size and looking identical to our other unidentified gal. Both are the same species but no one could determine between H. georgicola and H. aspersa. I'll post pictures tomorrow. There are pictures of the other spider located on this thread; 

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=192156

ANY help would be much appreciated, THANKS!!


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## Silberrücken (Nov 1, 2010)

I will be quite interested to see the pics! 

Congrats on the Molt! You ARE refering to Lady, right?   :?


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## davisfam (Nov 1, 2010)

Silberrücken said:


> I will be quite interested to see the pics!
> 
> Congrats on the Molt! You ARE refering to Lady, right?   :?


Yes, I am speaking of "Lady" and thanks! I'll be posting pictures of her tonight after my class. I just want to know what these two specimens are that we have because no one could give a definate ID. Hmm.. :?


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## Silberrücken (Nov 1, 2010)

Hurry, hurry, hurry!!! I am to nearly bust from anticipation, LOL!

I do so want to know what they are, also! You have no idea (well, think you DO, come to think of it, LOL) how much I've searched, and came up with nothing...   :?

S.


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## davisfam (Nov 7, 2010)

Sorry, we got caught up and completely forgot to post the new pictures of "Lady" (no ID) after her most recent molt. Here are a couple pictures of the BEAUtiful gal; 













If ANYone knows an ID for this gal or can prove this is a specimen is of the species H. georgicola or H. aspersa, PLEASE, SPEAK UP! We can't find an EXACT match (disregarding the variation among abdomen patterns and coloration, of course) to either one of those species of Wolfiies. We REALLY want to know what our two Wolfiies (sub-adult and MF) are so if anyone can help, it would be MUCHOO appreciated, THANKS!! :?

*Here is a photo of the MF after her most recent molt as well;*


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## Silberrücken (Nov 7, 2010)

oh, WOOOWWW!!!!! She IS a looker! 

...For some reason, I thought "Hogna miami" when I saw her pics...  I have no idea why I thought that...  :?

??? That can't be it, if you've narrowed down the search to geogicola or aspersa...   :wall::wall::wall:

OK, I'm gonna search some info before going to bed...  I wanna know what she is too!!!!

Beautiful pics of a lovely girl, davisfam! :clap::clap::clap:

And no prob about getting caught up in things, that's Life, we all do this at one point or another, LOL!    S.


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## revilo (Nov 7, 2010)

yeah, she really is soo much beautyful - just great !!!

now im curious about what she is so much that i will search again for further information.

please, what is exactly location of this found ?

oli


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## revilo (Nov 7, 2010)

hi,

i have a question to the taxon h. georgicola. where did you get them ?
because in wsc from platnick there is no hogna georgicola listed !
seems that this taxon doesnt exist...


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## davisfam (Nov 7, 2010)

revilo said:


> hi,
> 
> i have a question to the taxon h. georgicola. where did you get them ?
> because in wsc from platnick there is no hogna georgicola listed !
> seems that this taxon doesnt exist...


Thanks! Both specimens were collected in our backyard here in central Florida. The first specimen was found outside roaming around, a burrow was near, but we're not 100% it belonged to her. The second specimen was found inside a burrow. Both of these specimens were caught within 2-3 weeks of each other and around the same areas in our backyard.

As far as the H. georgicola, I have found numerous documents stating the taxonomy of this species has either been changed or is being evaluated for change. H. georgicola is one of the most confusing species when it comes to online research, I can't find much helpful information.

*On Florida's nature website it's listed as H. georgicola;*
http://floridanature.org/species.asp?species=Hogna_georgicola

But INHS lists Allocosa georgicola as originally being described by Walckenaer as Lycosa, and now being Allocosa. Although, I still also found some publications in different journals and documents speaking of Hogna georgicola, but all lead back to the original description as Walckenaer 1837. 

Another member on the boards posted this: "As of 2002 Allocosa georgicola was used, but Cor Vink noted that "Allocosa georgicola does not fit the genus Allocosa Banks 1900 as defined by Dondale & Redner (1983b)." and further notes, "The molecular evidence suggests that Allocosa georgicola belongs in a Geolycosa-like genus"

Soo, I am not exactly sure on the H. georgicola.. Maybe someone with more information will chime in and help us out! Thanks for ALL the help!


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## Silberrücken (Nov 7, 2010)

LOL, I just finished reading all those posts too! You beat me to it! 

Another thing about all this is...  many photos with H. georgicola look so much different! Even the eye patterns are different....  :? Let me find that link I was looking at, to show you an example...

It is a post from 2007, but look at the macro of the second pic....

http://www.bugnation.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=205&t=10294

IMO, those eyes look nothing like Lady's...   You see what I mean? It's so hard to ID by pics alone, with so many contradicting images. :wall::wall::wall:

I did notice one other thing, but this may be of no significance...

Look the pics of your Juvie, at her 3rd and 4th pair of legs... see how thin they are compared to her 1st & 2nd pair? This suggests to be a Geolycosa... even though the difference is not obvious in Lady's pics after her molt. :?:?:?

I'm just thinking random thoughts atm, tho....    Have you studied the Geolycosas to the extent that you can rule them out?

back to :?:?:? , I think....   :wall:  S.


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## Silberrücken (Nov 7, 2010)

On 2nd thought...  I think my eyes and brain are playin' tricks on me....  forget the Juvie legs...    :wall::wall::wall::wall::wall::wall::wall:


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## davisfam (Nov 7, 2010)

Silberrücken said:


> I'm just thinking random thoughts atm, tho.. Have you studied the Geolycosas to the extent that you can rule them out?
> back to :?:?:? , I think. :wall:  S.


Well, we're not experts on burrowing Wolfiies but I don't think these gals are from the genus Geolycosa. Currently, we own two Geolycosa specimen's both from the same species; Geolycosa patellonigra. One is a TINY juviie and the other is what we think to be a mature adult female. As of right now, we are not certain on the gender of the juviie. I'll post pictures of them SOON.. these things are beyond adorable! Although, you must be SUPER careful with them in captivity because they tend not to have a high survival rate when in captivity. The Geolycosa's we have owned have all done very well in captivity but that's probably because we spoil our spidiies! LOL! 

and I do agree, the H. georgicola just doesn't seem to fit. Hmm.. :wall:


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## revilo (Nov 8, 2010)

:evil::evil::wall::wall::wall:
i was spending more than one hour to do research and to write a new post within this informations (zitations, genuscharacters,...) than after press the submit button everything is lost :evil:

now im not in the mood to write again.

on a very short way : i agree it's not a geolycosa because some characters doesnt fit.
take a look if your species is the "allocosa" georgicola (in case you're able to get the description) and in case it is, it's not our job to find a better fitting genus than allocosa (because i agree again that this genus doesnt fit well) - this is the job of professional taxonomists  mainthing than is to know that it is the georgicola (or not). revision about genus will come from alone...

edit : after further reading allocosa is maybe not so bad choose, because its considered to be a subgenus of lycosa. it was not possible to me to get the first description of this genus trough Banks, 1904.
but the genus allocosa seems to be easy to recognizable : the median apophysis of male bulbs are with two parallel spurs, a smaller one under a bigger one.

so catch a male, mate both specimens to get sure its the same species and than after death of male look close on his palps - easy, isn't it ?! LOL

cheers, oli


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## revilo (Nov 8, 2010)

btw: does anyone knows the youtubevids from "zackscott" there are around 5vids with spider in his kittchen, in his garage, etc. ?
i like this vids a lot, he makes this little movies on a funny way and you can see nice wolfspiders - some of them are really similar to yours...

oliver


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## davisfam (Nov 8, 2010)

Oliver,
           I am soo sorry to hear about you losing the long and detailed post. That's happened to me quite a few times and it makes me very upset as well.  I am going to send our photo's of the two specimens to a few different people for an ID but if they can't figure it out, we'll most likely have to study the genitals of our specimen to get an ID of the exact species. Otherwise, we don't really know what else to do because the internet nor the boards have enough information for an 100% definite ID for our spidiies. 

I'll still be doing research in the meantime and we appreciate all the help from you too! It means a lot to us, we just want to know what these darn spidiies are.. it's driving me crazy! HaHa!


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