# Aphonopelma mooreae



## c-land (Jul 20, 2006)

Hi everybody, I was just perusing Rick West's site and saw an unbelievably beautiful Aphonopelma: Aphonopelma mooreae.  Both the male and female were pretty amazing. 

http://www.birdspiders.com/archive/15B01254KD0B7KAEC2K14170C23AD17625D.html

http://www.birdspiders.com/archive/15B044F6KD0B7KAEC2K14650DF92F8D59D7.html

They remind me of Chromatopelma cyaneopubescens, very brilliant colors!  Anybody ever seen these in the hobby before?
Mike


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## Scorp guy (Jul 20, 2006)

wow  nice find! never seen it in the hobby.....nor have i heard of it, a beutiful T nonetheless, thank you for sharing


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## kraken (Jul 20, 2006)

Those are real nice!


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## GoTerps (Jul 20, 2006)

Best looking U.S. species!  

Eric


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## eman (Jul 20, 2006)

GoTerps said:
			
		

> Best looking U.S. species!
> 
> Eric


US? Do they range that far north? 

Eman


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## lucanidae (Jul 20, 2006)

Wow.....wow......but I bet they take FOREVER to grow to maturity.....


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## ShadowBlade (Jul 21, 2006)

A very large portion of Aphonopelma's range into/in the US. So I'd assume its quite possible this species does as well, especially if they're in Mexico.

I don't know anything about this species though, so I don't know.
But I agree with Lucanidae, those things must take a long time to mature! I mean, in all fairness, look how long it takes like _anax_ and _chalcodes_...

Don't we all love Rick C. West's site?


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## omni (Aug 19, 2007)

Just to bring this thread back as a sp. that HAS to be promoted for the colorful T lovers everywhere, has anyone located any? Beautiful T!


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## Drachenjager (Aug 19, 2007)

GoTerps said:


> Best looking U.S. species!
> 
> Eric


Just because Texas used to belong to Mexico dosent mean Mexico is in the USA now lol
At any rate i still think moderatum and bicoloratum are prettier


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## GoTerps (Aug 19, 2007)

Drachenjager said:


> Just because Texas used to belong to Mexico dosent mean Mexico is in the USA now lol


I know. 

They can be found in the U.S.  I know this for a *fact*.  

There's users on this board who have collected them in the U.S. and have had them in captivity for a few years now.

Eric


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## Crotalus (Aug 19, 2007)

Another shot of this beautiful species


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## Moltar (Aug 19, 2007)

Alright... why don't some of y'all high mileage experts get on the stick and breed up some of these babies for the rest of us? I want one! I wonder, will these be super expensive like metallicas when they first really hit the CB market?

I'll trade a new computer for a few slings or juvies!


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## Drachenjager (Aug 19, 2007)

GoTerps said:


> I know.
> 
> They can be found in the U.S.  I know this for a *fact*.
> 
> ...


Really ? thats cool . They dont show up anywhere as a species native to the us but neither does B. smithi lol But i have heard pretty reliable reports of them being native to certian places in Texas that i wont mention at this time lol


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## Crotalus (Aug 19, 2007)

Drachenjager said:


> Really ? thats cool . They dont show up anywhere as a species native to the us but neither does B. smithi lol But i have heard pretty reliable reports of them being native to certian places in Texas that i wont mention at this time lol


Smithi in Texas would be released or misidentified spiders since the Texas border is not close to the smithi distribution area in Mexico - or just a rumour. Perhaps someone meant the florida vagans population


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## Drachenjager (Aug 19, 2007)

Crotalus said:


> Smithi in Texas would be released or misidentified spiders since the Texas border is not close to the smithi distribution area in Mexico - or just a rumour. Perhaps someone meant the florida vagans population


no they meant B. smithi.
but good answer lol
actually i dont know for a fact that the reports are correct. but i have heard it mentioned by a few people that should know. 
However, i dont think we can rule out any Ts being native to Texas, we probably have decimated populations of Ts we didnt even know existed here. 
If A. mooreae is here , why not B. smithi? or A. bicoloratum even?


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## Crotalus (Aug 19, 2007)

Drachenjager said:


> no they meant B. smithi.
> but good answer lol
> actually i dont know for a fact that the reports are correct. but i have heard it mentioned by a few people that should know.
> However, i dont think we can rule out any Ts being native to Texas, we probably have decimated populations of Ts we didnt even know existed here.
> If A. mooreae is here , why not B. smithi? or A. bicoloratum even?


Maybe Brent H. that study Aphonopelma have some additional info on the moorae in US.
Why not smithi is in Texas? Then it would be a small isolated pocket far away from its general distributiopn area and the only species in its genus north of Mexico. Not impossible, but not so likely either.


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## R.HENNING (Aug 19, 2007)

ATS a few years back talked about them!

I think they were from New Mexico ?   :?


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## Drachenjager (Aug 19, 2007)

R.HENNING said:


> ATS a few years back talked about them!
> 
> I think they were from New Mexico ?   :?


maybe because where these were supposed to be located is near the border wiht nm


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## Drachenjager (Aug 19, 2007)

Crotalus said:


> Maybe Brent H. that study Aphonopelma have some additional info on the moorae in US.
> Why not smithi is in Texas? Then it would be a small isolated pocket far away from its general distributiopn area and the only species in its genus north of Mexico. Not impossible, but not so likely either.


When it comes to Texas tarantula species , ill holler at Dave ... no offense to Brent, but Dave has been studying the Ts in Texas specifically for a good while ...Brent will have his hands full studying all the alledged aphonopelma in the USA ...and i am sure when he gets done there will be quite a bit fewer species lol 
And dont get me wrong i support Brents work too. I just cant send him Ts from a particular group for ID because of the limited quanity. An it seems that noone seems to be able to understand that a max of 50 females and only 2 that i have confirmed as females is too few to be sending enough for ID purposes... I hope to be able to collect a few and CB some for species preservation. if that comes about then we shall see...
NOW that i have gotten off topic lol


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## Crotalus (Aug 20, 2007)

Drachenjager said:


> When it comes to Texas tarantula species , ill holler at Dave ... no offense to Brent, but Dave has been studying the Ts in Texas specifically for a good while ...Brent will have his hands full studying all the alledged aphonopelma in the USA ...and i am sure when he gets done there will be quite a bit fewer species lol
> And dont get me wrong i support Brents work too. I just cant send him Ts from a particular group for ID because of the limited quanity. An it seems that noone seems to be able to understand that a max of 50 females and only 2 that i have confirmed as females is too few to be sending enough for ID purposes... I hope to be able to collect a few and CB some for species preservation. if that comes about then we shall see...
> NOW that i have gotten off topic lol


And he thinks there are smithi natural living in TX?


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## Drachenjager (Aug 20, 2007)

Crotalus said:


> And he thinks there are smithi natural living in TX?


i havent talked to dave yet about them. What i need to do is make a trip where they are supposed to be and ask around and hunt...but it costs money that i have better use of right now lol


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## hamfoto (Aug 20, 2007)

No, he doesn't think there are B. smithi living in Texas...

Chris


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## ahas (Aug 21, 2007)

Those are beautiful!  How much do these guys cost?


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## Drachenjager (Aug 21, 2007)

hamfoto said:


> No, he doesn't think there are B. smithi living in Texas...
> 
> Chris


yes he does, hes had them at the store ROTFLOL


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## hamfoto (Aug 21, 2007)

_B. smithi_ does NOT range into the U.S.!!!  It has a very distinct range in Mexico.

And I know that Dave doesn't think so...seeing as we're close friends and have talked about it.

Chris


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## dtknow (Aug 21, 2007)

Looks very similar to C. cyanopubescens. I wonder what the selective force is for a blue body and a green butt? Anyone care to take a stab at it?

Also, do A. bicoloratum and B. boehmei occur together? Praps it is a case of shared protective coloration(I don't remember if this would be Batesian or Mullerian mimicry).


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## KingBowser (Aug 22, 2007)

''no they meant B. smithi.
but good answer lol
actually i dont know for a fact that the reports are correct. but i have heard it mentioned by a few people that should know. 
However, i dont think we can rule out any Ts being native to Texas, we probably have decimated populations of Ts we didnt even know existed here. 
If A. mooreae is here , why not B. smithi? or A. bicoloratum even?''

Why not Theraphosa blondi?  So if it's Aphonopelma it has to exist in the U.S.?


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## hamfoto (Aug 22, 2007)

dtknow said:


> Looks very similar to C. cyanopubescens. I wonder what the selective force is for a blue body and a green butt? Anyone care to take a stab at it?
> 
> Also, do A. bicoloratum and B. boehmei occur together? Praps it is a case of shared protective coloration(I don't remember if this would be Batesian or Mullerian mimicry).


It's probably just similar evolutionary forces acting on them that cause them to look similar...whatever reason it affords them.  And it probably has to do with the way predators "see" them since tarantula eyes do not afford them very good "vision", especially at distance.
It wouldn't be any of the mimicry devices b/c they neither are poisonous to eat or are mimicing an organism that looks like them that is poisonous.
Batesian mimicry is when one organism is poisonous and another, non-poisonous organism mimics the first.  This form of mimicry is an evolutionary advantage to the mimic but not the actual poisonous organism.  They will actually get "sampled" more often if the mimic population is really successful.
Muellerian mimicry is when a number of similar poisonous organisms look the same or very similar so that they afford each other the same evolutionary advantage of getting their point across to potential predators.

Chris


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## GoTerps (Aug 22, 2007)

KingBowser said:


> However, i dont think we can rule out any Ts being native to Texas, we probably have decimated populations of Ts we didnt even know existed here.
> If A. mooreae is here , why not B. smithi? or A. bicoloratum even?''


_A. mooreae_ can not be found in TX that I'm aware of.  In the U.S., yes.  But not in TX.  Not that I can attest to that personally, but the areas they've been found (that I'm aware of) are not in TX.

Eric


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## dtknow (Aug 22, 2007)

hamfoto said:


> It's probably just similar evolutionary forces acting on them that cause them to look similar...whatever reason it affords them.  And it probably has to do with the way predators "see" them since tarantula eyes do not afford them very good "vision", especially at distance.
> It wouldn't be any of the mimicry devices b/c they neither are poisonous to eat or are mimicing an organism that looks like them that is poisonous.
> Batesian mimicry is when one organism is poisonous and another, non-poisonous organism mimics the first.  This form of mimicry is an evolutionary advantage to the mimic but not the actual poisonous organism.  They will actually get "sampled" more often if the mimic population is really successful.
> Muellerian mimicry is when a number of similar poisonous organisms look the same or very similar so that they afford each other the same evolutionary advantage of getting their point across to potential predators.
> ...


They may not be poisonous, but I am thinking perhaps one species has more effective urticating hairs then the other. People say their boehmei flick at the slightest disturbance. Perhaps their coloration warns potential predators(I don't think mice/etc. can see color though...) of their effective hairs and their willingness to use them. I recall that in the world of butterflies simply being a fast flier is good enough to earn your species a few mimics.


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## hamfoto (Aug 22, 2007)

You know...that is a good point!  Also, mammalian predators might not be able to see the colors...but they can probably see the UV reflectance and that might be the signal (and to us it just looks like colors...ala birds).

Chris


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## dtknow (Aug 22, 2007)

Now this is getting interesting...hope others chime in!

I don't recall T's having UV reflectance, though. I'm not sure if monkeys would live in the same habitat but if so the coloring may be meant for them.


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## Drachenjager (Aug 22, 2007)

hamfoto said:


> _B. smithi_ does NOT range into the U.S.!!!  It has a very distinct range in Mexico.
> 
> And I know that Dave doesn't think so...seeing as we're close friends and have talked about it.
> 
> Chris


GOOF BALL 
B. smithi does live in the USA ask Ryan he had 2000 of them GHEESH and Dave DOES know that there are B. smithi living in Texas I mean gheesh its a pretty popular species here!
I was being a smart alek when i said he does he had them at the store ...You need to get a sense of humor or go north

NOT TO MENTION I never said a thing about Dave hearing of , knowing about or thinking that B. smithi had wild pops in the USA. I said if i had questions about Ts in Texas i would ask him before Brent, period. I also said i heard rumors ...RUMORS that B. smithi was in Texas ... SOMEONE jumped to the conclusion that I said Dave said it or believed it or something BUT i plainly said I HADNT TALKED TO DAVE ABOUT IT !
Learn to read English people !


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## Drachenjager (Aug 22, 2007)

maybe the design works...if it aint broke dont fix it.


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## Fingolfin (Jan 27, 2008)

Bringing this back up.... I was just looking at the pic on Mr. West's page. Gorgeous! Is there any chance of this T coming to breeders and to the hobbyist at all? I have read the other pages.... I am just wondering if there is anything new or changed...
http://www.birdspiders.com/gallery/p.php/342 and
http://www.birdspiders.com/gallery/p.php/154


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## kean (Jan 28, 2008)

They look like GBB's minus the chevron marking..


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## madamwlf (Aug 7, 2010)

I know this is an old thread but it is relevant to my question.  

I went to a reptile show today and was given a copy of the Fauna magazine with my T purchase from a vendor.  The issue was Sept/Oct of 2001 and had a great article and pics of Ts.  The article was by Rick West.  There was a pic of this beautiful T called Aphonopelma Mooreae.  Is this T even in the trade???  Another gorgeous blue T!!!

Also, does someone know if it was renamed:  Aphonopelma moorei???


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## Anastasia (Aug 7, 2010)

Drachenjager said:


> GOOF BALL
> B. smithi does live in the USA ask Ryan he had 2000 of them GHEESH and Dave DOES know that there are B. smithi living in Texas I mean gheesh its a pretty popular species here!
> I was being a smart alek when i said he does he had them at the store ...You need to get a sense of humor or go north
> 
> ...


who is Ryan and who is Dave? :?


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## bliss (Aug 7, 2010)

madamwlf said:


> I know this is an old thread but it is relevant to my question.
> 
> I went to a reptile show today and was given a copy of the Fauna magazine with my T purchase from a vendor.  The issue was Sept/Oct of 2001 and had a great article and pics of Ts.  The article was by Rick West.  There was a pic of this beautiful T called Aphonopelma Mooreae.  Is this T even in the trade???  Another gorgeous blue T!!!
> 
> Also, does someone know if it was renamed:  Aphonopelma moorei???


They are very good looking indeed.  I think I remember seeing a thread where only one or two people have them.  I could be wrong, but either way they are definitely not in the mainstream trade.  

I think the name was actually changed from moorei to mooreae.

From the world spider catalog-

*m mooreae Smith, 1995....................Mexico [urn:lsid:amnh.org:spidersp:001749]
A. moorei Smith, 1995: 123, f. 508-517 (Dm; N.B.: patronym for Barbara Moore).
A. moorei Peters, 2000b: 146, f. 441-442 (m).
A. m. Peters, 2003: 61, f. 231, 235 (m).*


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## Bill S (Aug 8, 2010)

bliss said:


> I think the name was actually changed from moorei to mooreae.
> 
> From the world spider catalog-
> 
> ...


Maybe I'm missing something, but if it was mooreae in 1995 and moorei in 1995, 2000 and 2003 - doesn't that indicate it went from _mooreae_ to _moorei_?

For what it's worth, I know people who have found this species and photographed it in the Alamos region of Sonora. Mexico.  I haven't heard of it coming up into the U.S., at least not into Arizona.  The climate and habitat where it is found in the Alamos region is not duplicated in Arizona - or in the other border states.  There were some postings earlier about it being found in the U.S. - but no mention of by who or where.  Anyone have any further documentation on this?


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## Widowman10 (Aug 8, 2010)

i don't have anything official, but i do know of another member or two on here that have found A.m. for sure here in the states. of course they aren't going to post that precious info on the www though


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## Bill S (Aug 8, 2010)

Widowman10 said:


> i don't have anything official, but i do know of another member or two on here that have found A.m. for sure here in the states. of course they aren't going to post that precious info on the www though


Unfortunately, that's the difference between unsupported anecdotal stories and scientific data.  And there are reasons why these stories could be suspect, such as the possibility that the owners of _A. moorei_ specimens might want to avoid being accused of smuggling tarantulas out of Mexico.


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## JoeRossi (Aug 8, 2010)

*According to "Mr. West".*

"I was just looking at the pic on Mr. West's page. Gorgeous! "

Accoriding to Rick or "Mr. West":

Aphonopelma mooreae is from central Sonora State, Mexico, and not found near or in the neighboring US States.  There was a couple of specimens collected by a herpetologist back in the late 80's who brought these back to Arizona.

One was a female which produced a viable eggsac in captivity ... but only a 
few young survived ... of which a couple were given to me which matured at 
different times (images on my website) and were unbreedable.  Since then, a 
few have been found in the type location but the area is patrolled by 
authorities and no one wants to take the chance of being caught and ending 
up in a Mexican jail.  The few that have illegally been caught and smuggled 
back to the US have not produced viable eggsacs.


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## Bill S (Aug 8, 2010)

JoeRossi said:


> Accoriding to Rick or "Mr. West":
> 
> ..... Since then, a few have been found in the type location but the area is patrolled by authorities and no one wants to take the chance of being caught and ending up in a Mexican jail.


I know several field biologists working in the Alamos area of Sonora, Mexico and they find these tarantulas fairly often.  They've photographed them and documented them, and there's a book on a biodiversity study project in that region that has photos of _A. moorei_ in it.  (It's either already published or will be very soon.)  Not a rare animal in its native environment, and that location is not patrolled any more than the rest of Mexico is.  Finding them does not lead to a trip to a Mexican jail.  I suspect that Mr. West is just trying to scare people away from the site.

A picture of the species, taken in its natural habitat by one of the people I mentioned, can be seen at http://www.erikenderson.com/Galleries/Invertebrates/slides/Aphonopelma_moorei.html


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## Bill S (Aug 8, 2010)

Further information on the discovery of A. moorei can be found at: http://www.desertmuseum.org/programs/yecora_gallery-fauna4.php.


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## JoeRossi (Aug 8, 2010)

*Hey Bill*

Hey Bill, glad to hear from you again by the way.  I think Rick is speaking of the smuggling point and not the finding yet the patrolling part may have changed since, he is mistaken, or is how you say?  If you are contesting I can go find the specie and sneak it accross the boarder no problem then I know your wrong.  However, I know you are not and are correct that finding any specie If your going to hoof it is no problem with the appropriate paper work  ( I saw some great stuff abroad in 98 Brazil, Venezuela, Malaysia, Vietnam etc....).  I also know several individuals who have seen a ton of "rares" while on expos in their wild environment.  I don't think the point was to scare people that the federalies (I live next to and have taken several trips into mexio) are patroling the area with AK's, but that coming accross boarder lines with anything is a risk.  A long long long time ago I almost got tossed in for having some fireworks in the backpack as well as driving 5 miles over the speed limit and it ended up just costing me some $$ and the confiscation of the fire works .  I know I am not bringing anything accross that boarder.....


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## bliss (Aug 8, 2010)

Bill S said:


> Maybe I'm missing something, but if it was mooreae in 1995 and moorei in 1995, 2000 and 2003 - doesn't that indicate it went from _mooreae_ to _moorei_?


You are correct, I read it wrong.  

Here is how it is read exactly on the WSC.

m *mooreae* Smith, 1995....................Mexico [urn:lsid:amnh.org:spidersp:001749]
A. moorei Smith, 1995: 123, f. 508-517 (Dm; N.B.: patronym for Barbara Moore).
A. moorei Peters, 2000b: 146, f. 441-442 (m).
A. m. Peters, 2003: 61, f. 231, 235 (m).

For some reason I was assuming the top name in bold was the current name, being used as a header.  My bad. lol


Anyways, these things are awesome.  Look almost exactly like a C. cyaneopubescens.. well, at least from the pictures.


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## Zoltan (Aug 8, 2010)

bliss said:


> Bill S said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe I'm missing something, but if it was mooreae in 1995 and moorei in 1995, 2000 and 2003 - doesn't that indicate it went from _mooreae_ to _moorei_?
> ...


It's _mooreae_, not _moorei_. Smith incorrectly named it _moorei_, and his error was corrected by Platnick. Since the name is a patronym for a woman (Barbara Moore), the suffix is _-ae_, not _-i_, so not _moore*i*_ but _moore*ae*_.

Reactions: Like 1


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## cacoseraph (Aug 8, 2010)

oh, i've heard of the legendary blue aphonopelma from the US... but i always assumed it was smugglers hoping to smooth a path for buyers down the road


it's really funny, all the boards and forums FREAK OUT when you say locations past city... but the actual workers publish coords with helpful tips to endangered species all the time.

i personally wish ppl would be more active in going out and finding and documenting stuff.


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## madamwlf (Aug 8, 2010)

It would be nice to see more of these guys around.    Beautiful


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## dactylus (Feb 18, 2012)

Just giving the thread a "chest thump" to make sure that it is still pumping...

Any news on the possibility of potential captive breeding of this species in the USA or Europe?


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## willychon (Sep 11, 2013)

*pics*





Aphonopelma sp Arizona and Aphonopelma mooreae from Mexico

Reactions: Like 4


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## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (Sep 11, 2013)

willychon said:


> View attachment 120515
> View attachment 120516
> 
> 
> Aphonopelma sp Arizona and Aphonopelma mooreae from Mexico


 Very nice!

Jose

---------- Post added 09-11-2013 at 10:32 AM ----------




willychon said:


> View attachment 120515
> View attachment 120516
> 
> 
> Aphonopelma sp Arizona and Aphonopelma mooreae from Mexico


 It reminds me of an A. behlei but with real nice coloration.

Jose


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