# I'm going to handle my female pokie Ornata, lacking confidence...



## Addison Chloe (Aug 29, 2017)

Hello everyone, this is my first online forum thread thing ever, and I'm reaching because I deeply care for my female pokie Ornata, Wellenough. She's almost two and such a character, great eater and can be very vocal, well throw her legs you know, but still. I want to hold her and she wants me to too, hard to explain,  but yeah I'm just at such a point of respect, it's hard to break the barrier. I only go in her terrarium with my hands, no tongs or anything, and yesterday she came crawling out to the opening I've been trying to get her to go to to handle her and she did and I got scared and couldn't do it. My only explanation is going online has only showed me the bite threat she poses and scared me, yet she's never scared me but the first night I had her, so I'm asking for help and insight!
Thanks!

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## Venom1080 (Aug 29, 2017)

The spider does not want to be held.

She was likely having a feeding response.

Please read the bite reports here and watch them on YouTube. You are extremely irresponsible if you handle  Poecilotheria on purpose.

Please provide a proper hide as well. The one in there in your other picture is practically a decoration.

Please post photos of the whole cage.

If you have to ask such basic questions, you probably should not be owning such a spider.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 24 | Award 1


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## 8by8 (Aug 29, 2017)

Yeah that sounds like a very painful mistake.

Reactions: Agree 5


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## ZX14 (Aug 29, 2017)

Just don't do it!!!!!! If you wanna hold your pet buy a hamster!

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 8 | Beer 1


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## Walker253 (Aug 29, 2017)

Darwin Award nominee...
Really? Why would I have any reason to believe this is anything but a troll post?
But if you're serious. do it on a Friday or Saturday night. When those fangs sink in and when the pain is so intense, you'll have a good long wait in the ER. I'm not going to try and convince you why you shouldn't do this, I hope you do. You're an adult, not some 15 year old. I hope the ornata enjoys it and doesn't get hurt.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 8 | Funny 8 | Beer 1


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## TownesVanZandt (Aug 29, 2017)

I´d say go ahead and handle your Pokie! Learning the hard way not to handle tarantulas might be the way for you...

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 6 | Winner 1


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## Leila (Aug 29, 2017)

Bad idea. You are right to lack confidence when it comes to intentionally handling a tarantula with such potent venom.

Check out the _Poecilotheria _bite reports.

Reactions: Agree 8


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## Eva (Aug 29, 2017)

...natural selection.

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## Little Grey Spider (Aug 29, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> I want to hold her and she wants me to too


No offense at all, but um, are you a tarantula mind reader? There's absolutely no way you could KNOW that she WANTS you to hold her. In fact, logic and experience would tell me that she DOESN'T. Tarantulas do not become bonded with their owner. She doesn't give a care WHO you are so long as she gets fed, watered and given proper housing. I would NEVER attempt to hold an old world tarantula just for the heck of it. I'm really not trying to be mean but you sound extremely inexperienced and that causes me concern for both you AND your animal. Sounds like a stupid question, but given your thread I must ask..... Are you aware of the speed and potency of a Poecilotheria sp.?

Reactions: Agree 7


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## mack1855 (Aug 29, 2017)

Trying to find a way to post something here.And I got nothing.

Going to fix a sandwich and pop a beer.Time,better spent.
GEEZ!!!..

Please don't be offended.If you want to hold your P.ornata,by all means do
so.

Reactions: Funny 2 | Love 2 | Beer 1


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## Nightstalker47 (Aug 29, 2017)

Don't ever attempt to handle your Poeciletheria, a bite from one of these is no joke, could easily send you to the hospital. Read up more on your spider, this thread proves just how uninformed you are. 

All that puts you in a precarious position...especially when you really believe it "wants to be held". I can assure you that is not the case.

Reactions: Like 2


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## 14pokies (Aug 29, 2017)

Y'all feeding the 's again...

Reactions: Agree 13 | Funny 7 | Optimistic 1 | Award 2


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## elportoed (Aug 29, 2017)

The tarantula has no idea what you want to do, nor care.  If you feel strongly about handling her, please read this thread, it gets better toward the end, http://arachnoboards.com/threads/poecilotheria-ornata.1901/

If you still want to do it, it is your limb and she is your tarantula, have at it.  May be it won't bite you, or if it bite, it could be a dry bite, or may be you won't have any reaction to the venom.  I wish you good luck.


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## Mojo288 (Aug 29, 2017)

Just please post your bite report to prevent further posts like this, thanks.

Might want to make sure you have A LOT of pain killers/ muscle relaxers on hand before you do it and get bit.

enjoy the pain/muscle spasms....

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 3 | Funny 1


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## bryverine (Aug 29, 2017)

Sounds like (if you're serious) you have good intentions about loving your pet. Tarantulas are VERY primitive animals and don't understand love. They have a super basic brain and are instinct driven. 

They may be curious enough to explore and assume you're a squishy tree. Beware that if you get startled or it does for whatever reason (if there's a reason), buckle up.


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## VolkswagenBug (Aug 29, 2017)

I'm going to try to take a kinder tone than the other users here. We tend to get very worked up over handling issues and can sometimes end up doing the opposite of what we intended -- making the user we're trying to convince dislike us and do the opposite of what we say. I'd like to prevent that, and in the process protect you and Wellenough.

I get that you love your pet(s) -- I do too! But one thing that's really important to know is that there are some bugs that are ok for handling, and others that definitely aren't. For example, one of my favorite pet bugs is my _Stenopelmatus sp._, otherwise known as the Jerusalem cricket. But they are renowned for their huge jaws and highly variable temperaments, so despite occasional temptation, I do not handle it. It's the same case with your _P. ornata_. They're very beautiful, but the bites are very dangerous and have about a 90% chance (just my guess, not an official statistic) of sending you into intense physical pain and probably the ER. 

However, if you really want to handle a tarantula, there *are *some species that are generally okay with you doing so. I won't get into the ethics of handling because that's very controversial and I don't really want to start a fight. Anyway, there are quite a few New World spp. that are commonly considered to be docile:
_Grammostola pulchra
Grammostola pulchripes
Grammostola porteri/rosea _(sometimes, but these species are also well-known for having variable temperaments and may be crazy, completely placid, or somewhere in between when being handled)
_Brachypelma albopilosum
Eupalaestrus campestratus_
Any _Aphonopelma sp._
That's just a short list; there are plenty of others that you will be able to handle with a much lower risk level than this. In particular, if you're interested in pretty species like pokies, I'd look into _E. campestratus _and _Grammostola pulchripes_. They're not nearly as colorful, but they're still fairly striking as adults. However, do note that each individual has its own temperament or "personality," so you may get a very aggressive T even off of the docile list -- it's more of a general guideline as to average behavior than a definitive master guide.

But please, don't handle your pokie. I ask for your own safety. There are some specimens that break the rule of being aggressive, but you still run the risk of:
- Being bitten
- Being bitten _and _throwing your T out of surprise
- Pokie escaping and dying in your house because it's too dry
- Pokie escaping and biting any other pets you have, probably causing death
- Accidentally dropping pokie, killing it
In any scenario involving death or escape, you will probably be grief-stricken over the loss of your beloved pet, plus if you want another one you'll have to shell out a pretty penny. Pokies aren't very cheap.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 4 | Informative 3


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## JDS123 (Aug 29, 2017)

Im not against handling certain tarantulas but in this case, please listen to everyone above me. Dont do it. Just enjoy it in the enclosure please. Take care girl.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## kevinlowl (Aug 29, 2017)

mack1855 said:


> Trying to find a way to post something here.And I got nothing.
> 
> *Going to fix a sandwich and pop a beer.Time,better spent.*
> GEEZ!!!..
> ...


Great way to enjoy a bite report! Especially a pokie bite report! 

Will OP deliver?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Addison Chloe (Aug 29, 2017)

bryverine said:


> Sounds like (if you're serious) you have good intentions about loving your pet. Tarantulas are VERY primitive animals and don't understand love. They have a super basic brain and are instinct driven.
> 
> They may be curious enough to explore and assume you're a squishy tree. Beware that if you get startled or it does for whatever reason (if there's a reason), buckle up.


Thank you for your honest decent human being response. I realize what I am getting myself into, and didn't need to hear that im going to regret her biting me, I got that, I asked for support and help. So thank you for being honest and real, and I do feel I've bonded to her, we hi five and she knows some sign signals with me, I feel like it's all on the feeling and she can sense mine as much as I feel I can sense hers, also only reason I said I felt she wanted to come out, maybe she didn't want to be handled but definitely out. I will still so my research much further, and she's not my first tarantula, I have Festes, my Antilles Pink Toed tarantula, and she hangs out with me all the time, she especially loves fumbling around in my hair,  she goes straight for it sometimes, and she loves the bass guitar, she'll come out and hangout on it when my fiance plays. I deeply love and care for my two tarantulas and just want the relationship like I have with Festes with Wellenough buy completely understand they are two very different creatures. I will post updates.

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1 | Disagree 2 | Funny 8 | Optimistic 1 | Lollipop 2 | Face Palm 2


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## Venom1080 (Aug 29, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> Thank you for your honest decent human being response. I realize what I am getting myself into, and didn't need to hear that im going to regret her biting me, I got that, I asked for support and help. So thank you for being honest and real, and I do feel I've bonded to her, we hi five and she knows some sign signals with me, I feel like it's all on the feeling and she can sense mine as much as I feel I can sense hers, also only reason I said I felt she wanted to come out, maybe she didn't want to be handled but definitely out. I will still so my research much further, and she's not my first tarantula, I have Festes, my Antilles Pink Toed tarantula, and she hangs out with me all the time, she especially loves fumbling around in my hair,  she goes straight for it sometimes, and she loves the bass guitar, she'll come out and hangout on it when my fiance plays. I deeply love and care for my two tarantulas and just want the relationship like I have with Festes with Wellenough buy completely understand they are two very different creatures. I will post updates.


Now i know how ignorant you really are. 

Tarantula are too dumb to know what their owners are. They do not love you. Your Caribena versicolor is probably very very stressed when you play with her. 

Handling is selfish and should die out entirely.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 9


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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 29, 2017)

@Addison Chloe

Please Lady don't let obscurantism prevail: you are doing a great keeping job, and your questions are valid, adult and intelligent 



Addison Chloe said:


> I only go in her terrarium with my hands, no tongs or anything


Don't use tongs or else, you say? That's the spirit... "living" at 360° the feeling with your spider. You are breaking every not written rule as a sort of 'Rebel-Pioneer', I tell you.

Yeah, the (hypothetical) bite can be very painful, sure... but hurts more the lack of knowledge

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 5


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## Addison Chloe (Aug 29, 2017)

Thank you for nice honest response and understand that they are considered to not want to be handled and that they are primitive and instinctual, however, I hi five her, Festes my Antilles Pink Toed plays tag with me, she's groomed her fangs on me so many times I can't count, she plays, she literally gets on the bass when my fiance plays and snuggles on the neck and just enjoys the vibration. I believe these creatures just need to be communicated with differently. I've used sounds and hand displays to get through and was looking to see if there was anyone like me, I guess I will be on my own here. Furthermore I believe that if they are instinctual like everyone says, and everyone has fesr of being bitten, well OF COURSE they're going to be bitten, but what if you could overcome the fear of that bite, I believe that spider can sense the calm just as much as they can sense the fear, the second she touches skin, if it goosebumps and gets rigid dye to instinctual human fear, then the spider feels that, but if it felt warmth and relaxation, I don't see why it would ever feel the need to bite....


VolkswagenBug said:


> I'm going to try to take a kinder tone than the other users here. We tend to get very worked up over handling issues and can sometimes end up doing the opposite of what we intended -- making the user we're trying to convince dislike us and do the opposite of what we say. I'd like to prevent that, and in the process protect you and Wellenough.
> 
> I get that you love your pet(s) -- I do too! But one thing that's really important to know is that there are some bugs that are ok for handling, and others that definitely aren't. For example, one of my favorite pet bugs is my _Stenopelmatus sp._, otherwise known as the Jerusalem cricket. But they are renowned for their huge jaws and highly variable temperaments, so despite occasional temptation, I do not handle it. It's the same case with your _P. ornata_. They're very beautiful, but the bites are very dangerous and have about a 90% chance (just my guess, not an official statistic) of sending you into intense physical pain and probably the ER.
> 
> ...

Reactions: Dislike 2 | Funny 5 | Lollipop 2 | Face Palm 1


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## Venom1080 (Aug 29, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> Thank you for nice honest response and understand that they are considered to not want to be handled and that they are primitive and instinctual, however, I hi five her, Festes my Antilles Pink Toed plays tag with me, she's groomed her fangs on me so many times I can't count, she plays, she literally gets on the bass when my fiance plays and snuggles on the neck and just enjoys the vibration. I believe these creatures just need to be communicated with differently. I've used sounds and hand displays to get through and was looking to see if there was anyone like me, I guess I will be on my own here. Furthermore I believe that if they are instinctual like everyone says, and everyone has fesr of being bitten, well OF COURSE they're going to be bitten, but what if you could overcome the fear of that bite, I believe that spider can sense the calm just as much as they can sense the fear, the second she touches skin, if it goosebumps and gets rigid dye to instinctual human fear, then the spider feels that, but if it felt warmth and relaxation, I don't see why it would ever feel the need to bite....


I highly doubt it. Post a video of it "playing" with you.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2 | Funny 1


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## Ellenantula (Aug 29, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> Thank you for nice honest response and understand that they are considered to not want to be handled and that they are primitive and instinctual, however, I hi five her, Festes my Antilles Pink Toed plays tag with me, she's groomed her fangs on me so many times I can't count, she plays, she literally gets on the bass when my fiance plays and snuggles on the neck and just enjoys the vibration. I believe these creatures just need to be communicated with differently. I've used sounds and hand displays to get through and was looking to see if there was anyone like me, I guess I will be on my own here. Furthermore I believe that if they are instinctual like everyone says, and everyone has fesr of being bitten, well OF COURSE they're going to be bitten, but what if you could overcome the fear of that bite, I believe that spider can sense the calm just as much as they can sense the fear, the second she touches skin, if it goosebumps and gets rigid dye to instinctual human fear, then the spider feels that, but if it felt warmth and relaxation, I don't see why it would ever feel the need to bite....


Have you considered a youtube vlog?
You seem like a very introspective and empathic person.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 29, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> I believe these creatures just need to be communicated with differently.


I use the power of my mind for mantain the contact with the *Goddess** so I can guarantee that what you are saying is true 

* 0.1 _Pelinobius muticus_ PBUH (Peace Be Upon Her)

Reactions: Funny 9


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## Addison Chloe (Aug 29, 2017)

Venom1080 said:


> I highly doubt it. Post a video of it "playing" with you.


I will sir, happily, I will work on putting together a blog of some sort, I had no idea how much fear is seen towards these awesome creatures, they're such characters, it's all in how you interact with them



Chris LXXIX said:


> I use the power of my mind for mantain the contact with the *Goddess** so I can guarantee that what you are saying is true
> 
> * 0.1 _Pelinobius muticus_ PBUH (Peace Be Upon Her)


Thank you thank you!! I can feel the good vibes, you are much appreciated and I will post when we make full contact!



Ellenantula said:


> Have you considered a youtube vlog?
> You seem like a very introspective and empathic person.


I haven't just because I don't how to but I would like to look into it for sure, especially seeing how everyone has reacted to these species

Reactions: Dislike 1 | Funny 2


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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 29, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> Thank you thank you!! I can feel the good vibes


What can I say, kind Lady ? 

Thank you... I love to deliver good vibrations to others

Reactions: Like 1


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## Addison Chloe (Aug 29, 2017)

Venom1080 said:


> The spider does not want to be held.
> 
> She was likely having a feeding response.
> 
> ...


Also you said that she is a he, I do believe this is incorrect, she has the correct white underside markings for a female that are distinctly different than a males, I do appreciate the speculation though



Chris LXXIX said:


> What can I say, kind Lady ?
> 
> Thank you... I love to deliver good vibrations to others


Well thank you so much, I believe in good vibrations too, keep on giving!


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## Venom1080 (Aug 29, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> I will sir, happily, I will work on putting together a blog of some sort, I had no idea how much fear is seen towards these awesome creatures, they're such characters, it's all in how you interact with them


Ridiculous.  imo and ime.

I'd love to see you handle some of my collection .  

That picture you posted was def a male. Post a few better pictures, underside and dorsal view.


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## JDS123 (Aug 29, 2017)

I think you mean well. However your asking for lots of trouble. Like I said, Im not


Addison Chloe said:


> Thank you for nice honest response and understand that they are considered to not want to be handled and that they are primitive and instinctual, however, I hi five her, Festes my Antilles Pink Toed plays tag with me, she's groomed her fangs on me so many times I can't count, she plays, she literally gets on the bass when my fiance plays and snuggles on the neck and just enjoys the vibration. I believe these creatures just need to be communicated with differently. I've used sounds and hand displays to get through and was looking to see if there was anyone like me, I guess I will be on my own here. Furthermore I believe that if they are instinctual like everyone says, and everyone has fesr of being bitten, well OF COURSE they're going to be bitten, but what if you could overcome the fear of that bite, I believe that spider can sense the calm just as much as they can sense the fear, the second she touches skin, if it goosebumps and gets rigid dye to instinctual human fear, then the spider feels that, but if it felt warmth and relaxation, I don't see why it would ever feel the need to bite....



I know what your getting at girl but I think some of its too far. I am that be the tree guy when it comes to handling the few times I do. I also seem to think they "enjoy" exploring on an arm or hand sometimes. However, I truly feel you may be a bit overboard. They sense prey, predators, mates, and such through vibrations, and think you may be tripping them the hell out. As far as the little tricks and such, they may not fear you anymore, but tarantulas have a way of going bi polar all the sudden. Plenty of brave and comfy ppl have been bitten. Im a bass player and guitarist as well, i truly think the vibrations are numbing it and tripping it out if anything. I just ask you to reconsider some of it. Hey I surf with sharks, pet bees while they are on flowers, avid fisherman catch and release, handled every reptile you can imagine, try to be one with nature as much as possible, but even I think you are taking it too far. Please just think about it for a bit, however long that takes, but try to see it from all sides, it sucks sometimes to realize you may be wrong about something, if we die and find out later you were right, then my apologies lmao!

I only ask you guys take it easy on her, constructive criticism is best.



Venom1080 said:


> Ridiculous.  imo and ime.
> 
> I'd love to see you handle some of my collection .


lmao be nice Venom lol

I know this is a hard one lol

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Love 1


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## Walker253 (Aug 29, 2017)



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## Venom1080 (Aug 29, 2017)

JDS123 said:


> lmao be nice Venom lol
> 
> I know this is a hard one lol



I'm trying. Is it showing?


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## 14pokies (Aug 29, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> Thank you for your honest decent human being response. I realize what I am getting myself into, and didn't need to hear that im going to regret her biting me, I got that, I asked for support and help. So thank you for being honest and real, and I do feel I've bonded to her, we hi five and she knows some sign signals with me, I feel like it's all on the feeling and she can sense mine as much as I feel I can sense hers, also only reason I said I felt she wanted to come out, maybe she didn't want to be handled but definitely out. I will still so my research much further, and she's not my first tarantula, I have Festes, my Antilles Pink Toed tarantula, and she hangs out with me all the time, she especially loves fumbling around in my hair,  she goes straight for it sometimes, and she loves the bass guitar, she'll come out and hangout on it when my fiance plays. I deeply love and care for my two tarantulas and just want the relationship like I have with Festes with Wellenough buy completely understand they are two very different creatures. I will post updates.


Do me a favor and please explain how you high five each other? I'm just sitting here imagining your T throwing a threat pose and you slapping her leg like you guys are bro's ...

Reactions: Agree 5 | Funny 12


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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 29, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> Well thank you so much, I believe in good vibrations too, keep on giving!


I can only praise the *Goddess** for that 

Our hissing but benevolent, magnanimous and benign Mother teached me how to be a better man, due to my symbiosis with Her 

and, finally, one day, I decided that the moment for spread Her verb arrived. The world needs to know how sensible, lovely, and peaceful is the *Goddess**.

She guide us using the good vibes she is able to deliver with the help of those unique rear legs: moving those in deep substrate burrows, she is able to produce a sound (like the drums-communication system used by mining Dwarfes in caves, just more soft) that reach the outside of the burrow and refill the heart of the listener with joy and renewed hope! 

That's only one of the reasons why I dedicate my life for spread the will of the *Goddess**

*0.1 _Pelinobius muticus_ PBUH (Peace Be Upon Her)

Reactions: Like 2 | Informative 1 | Funny 1 | Love 4


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## Addison Chloe (Aug 29, 2017)

Venom1080 said:


> Now i know how ignorant you really are.
> 
> Tarantula are too dumb to know what their owners are. They do not love you. Your Caribena versicolor is probably very very stressed when you play with her.
> 
> Handling is selfish and should die out entirely.


Your ignorance is holding you back from conceptualizing that these tarantulas are capable of SO much more than you think, Festess lid is open all day when I'm home amd she'll come out to me when she wants and likes to hangout on my hair while im reading, she enjoys my company, it is in short stints yes, but she doesn't usually want to get off me for a good half an hour. Also the bass she let us know she enjoyed, Wellenough doesn't come out when we play anything but Festes was scratching at her lid to get out and over time she finally crawled on to it by herself and snuggled as my fiance played, that was a happy tarantula, she definitely was not uncomfortable. I hope you can become more open for your happiness and your spiders.

Reactions: Dislike 3 | Informative 1 | Funny 2 | Sad 5


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## TRection (Aug 29, 2017)

I hope this is a joke...

Reactions: Agree 4 | Funny 2


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## Addison Chloe (Aug 29, 2017)

14pokies said:


> Do me a favor and please explain how you high five each other? I'm just sitting here imagining your T throwing a threat pose and you slapping her leg like you guys are bro's ...


Haha Festes started it, I went to try and get her out one day before she now let's herself out, and she moved all quick and touched my finger and then backed up an inch, I retracted as well, scared at first lol and then I put my finger back, about 2 inches away, she ran up touched my finger with one of hers and moved back,  one day she just didn't move back and neither did I and it became a thing from There!



TRection said:


> I hope this is a joke...


Why?



Venom1080 said:


> Ridiculous.  imo and ime.
> 
> I'd love to see you handle some of my collection .
> 
> That picture you posted was def a male. Post a few better pictures, underside and dorsal view.

Reactions: Funny 2 | Creative 1 | Lollipop 1 | Face Palm 1


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## Venom1080 (Aug 29, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> Your ignorance is holding you back from conceptualizing that these tarantulas are capable of SO much more than you think, Festess lid is open all day when I'm home amd she'll come out to me when she wants and likes to hangout on my hair while im reading, she enjoys my company, it is in short stints yes, but she doesn't usually want to get off me for a good half an hour. Also the bass she let us know she enjoyed, Wellenough doesn't come out when we play anything but Festes was scratching at her lid to get out and over time she finally crawled on to it by herself and snuggled as my fiance played, that was a happy tarantula, she definitely was not uncomfortable. I hope you can become more open for your happiness and your spiders.


I lost brain cells reading this.

Reactions: Agree 12 | Informative 2 | Funny 6


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## EmilzHernandez (Aug 29, 2017)

Might I aggressively point to @Walker253  's post in agreement? That is what you risk. Fun fact: you are in no way bonding with your T's. I am sorry you think you are. Dogs show affection. Cats show affection. Some reptiles show affection. Tarantulas? Nope, not in the least. If you are so driven to handle something that could send you to a hospital, I question your motives in keeping the ornata in the first place. Just like fish, tarantulas are meant for viewing pleasure. People here are giving you great advice. If you choose to ignore it, that is your choice, but it is irrational, irresponsible, and shows you really haven't researched your tarantulas enough.

Reactions: Agree 12


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## Addison Chloe (Aug 29, 2017)

Here are a couple more shots, and can you fill me in as to why you believe Wellenough is a male?


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## 14pokies (Aug 29, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> Haha Festes started it, I went to try and get her out one day before she now let's herself out, and she moved all quick and touched my finger and then backed up an inch, I retracted as well, scared at first lol and then I put my finger back, about 2 inches away, she ran up touched my finger with one of hers and moved back,  one day she just didn't move back and neither did I and it became a thing from There!


Hahaha...OMG! He's testing to see if your food...

Seriously stop sticking your fingers in his enclosure..

Reactions: Agree 9 | Funny 3


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## Venom1080 (Aug 29, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> Here are a couple more shots, and can you fill me in as to why you believe Wellenough is a male?


They are very sexually dimorphic. Can you get a closer dorsal shot please?

Reactions: Agree 4


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## JDS123 (Aug 29, 2017)

Venom1080 said:


> I'm trying. Is it showing?


lmao you seem like a good cat, just suck the claws back in maybe a quarter inch lmao!

Reactions: Funny 4


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## Addison Chloe (Aug 29, 2017)

Well


EmilzHernandez said:


> Might I aggressively point to @Walker253  's post in agreement? That is what you risk. Fun fact: you are in no way bonding with your T's. I am sorry you think you are. Dogs show affection. Cats show affection. Some reptiles show affection. Tarantulas? Nope, not in the least. If you are so driven to handle something that could send you to a hospital, I question your motives in keeping the ornata in the first place. Just like fish, tarantulas are meant for viewing pleasure. People here are giving you great advice. If you choose to ignore it, that is your choice, but it is irrational, irresponsible, and shows you really haven't researched your tarantulas enough.


I invite you to be updated through this thread and read how I infect do bond with my tarantulas, and your fish example is bull too. I have many fish, and have pet very single one, fish communicate through food and positive reinforcement like most creatures, my fish I would feed and then dangle my finger and brush against it until it got comfortable and after a few times of positive reinforcement, every time I waded my finger a certain way in the water, the fish would come up and brush against me back and forth for as kognas I stroked it back. Life is mich deeper than I believe you understand. Hopefully I can show you all a different side to these awesome spiders

Reactions: Dislike 1 | Disagree 5 | Funny 2 | Love 1 | Creative 1 | Face Palm 1


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## 14pokies (Aug 29, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> Here are a couple more shots, and can you fill me in as to why you believe Wellenough is a male?


Absolutely 100% male.. Sorry..

*Edit*

This is a pic of a female that's roughly the same size.. Notice the slate grey coloration and the purple hues? The males of this species go from the grey sling coloration to a velvety green like yours.. Also as you can see the females have a bold cream stripe on the abdomen.. The males stripe is grey(ish) bordered by cream..

Also you can see a dot on the underside just above the epigastric furrow.. Only males have that dot.

My girl

Reactions: Agree 1 | Informative 1


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## Addison Chloe (Aug 29, 2017)

Venom1080 said:


> They are very sexually dimorphic. Can you get a closer dorsal shot please?


This is the only other dorsal shot I have from when I got her, I don't have her in a place of great light right now

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Venom1080 (Aug 29, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> This is the only other dorsal shot I have from when I got her, I don't have her in a place of great light right now


Yeah, male. Sorry. Not a girl.

Thought so from the first pic I commented on.

Reactions: Agree 4


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## EmilzHernandez (Aug 29, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> Well
> 
> I invite you to be updated through this thread and read how I infect do bond with my tarantulas, and your fish example is bull too. I have many fish, and have pet very single one, fish communicate through food and positive reinforcement like most creatures, my fish I would feed and then dangle my finger and brush against it until it got comfortable and after a few times of positive reinforcement, every time I waded my finger a certain way in the water, the fish would come up and brush against me back and forth for as kognas I stroked it back. Life is mich deeper than I believe you understand. Hopefully I can show you all a different side to these awesome spiders


Ok. That was. Unexpected. Thank you for the lecture on fish (serious here, I did not know that). Now, on the topic of tarantulas: No, you have not bonded with them. You simply have not. The fact you are not listening to anyone really isn't anyone's problem but your own. I am sorry you refuse to listen to reason because youre under the impression you're a spider whisperer. Now, I really don't need to listen to your painfully incorrect statements, but I am here in the hope you'll actually listen. Alsas

Reactions: Agree 8


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## JDS123 (Aug 29, 2017)

fish are much different than tarantulas.

Reactions: Agree 4 | Informative 1


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## EmilzHernandez (Aug 29, 2017)

JDS123 said:


> fish are much different than tarantulas.


Agreed, it was a poor example on my part.


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## JDS123 (Aug 29, 2017)

EmilzHernandez said:


> Agreed, it was a poor example on my part.


i didnt mean that bad toward you, meant for the OP to not compare her snuggly fish to the tarantulas. My fish come and rub my hands and beg for food and such too. I dont want her to think the tarantula is trying to snuggle her lol. May like the warmth, or to walk about further than its used to in the enclosure all the time, but I dont think its thinking like the fish are lol.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Walker253 (Aug 29, 2017)

JDS123 said:


> fish are much different than tarantulas.


Fish have a brain, albeit a small one. Tarantulas have no brain, just a nerve bundle. They do not bond, do not reason, and do not think. They react to stimuli, the have basic instincts and are primitive.

Reactions: Agree 9


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## Leila (Aug 29, 2017)

::sigh:: 
I have to agree with @Venom1080: I'm losing brain cells reading this crap. 

OP, if you are so hell bent on handling your ornata, why did you come here to ask for opinions and advice in the first place? You clearly have your mind made up...

Reactions: Agree 9 | Funny 1 | Love 1


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## Addison Chloe (Aug 29, 2017)

14pokies said:


> Hahaha...OMG! He's testing to see if your food...
> 
> Seriously stop sticking your fingers in her enclosure..


If she thought I was good, why does she do it everyday with Me? I don't feed her but once a week....and I don't hand feed her I set them free and she likes to hunt them, she might have been testing me the first few times even, but she LEARNED that that was just a thing we do, totally different.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Sad 1


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## Mojo288 (Aug 29, 2017)

This thread is getting out of hand, my concern is a first time Tarantula keeper reads this drivel and starts to think its a good idea to handle a tarantula with possibly the most potent venom. This is NOT a good idea, they do NOT feel affection, at best they no longer recognize you as a threat, and that's a stretch . They don't want/need cuddles, they don't want to high five you (it's trying to check if your finger is too big to eat), they don't like your boyfriends bass music. If you MUST make these statements, at the very least preface them by saying that this is your opinion, this is not scientific fact. You clearly do not have enough experience with these creatures to properly read body language. How would you feel if some 15 year old reads this and gets bit and ends up in the hospital with heart palpitations. You came into this thread asking for ways to "build up your confidence" to handle a VERY hot tarantula, it seems like you are asking for permission, you can do what you want, but don't go making it seem like it's advisable, do it or don't but trying to convince others that it's a good idea is ridiculous and irresponsible.

As for experienced keepers on AB saying its a good idea, i'm hoping they are sarcastic remarks.This thread is detrimental.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 15


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## Addison Chloe (Aug 29, 2017)

Why


Venom1080 said:


> Yeah, male. Sorry. Not a girl.
> 
> Thought so from the first pic I commented on.


Why though? I said why I thought she was a girl, why do you think she's a male?


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## Venom1080 (Aug 29, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> If she thought I was good, why does she do it everyday with Me? I don't feed her but once a week....and I don't hand feed her I set them free and she likes to hunt them, she might have been testing me the first few times even, but she LEARNED that that was just a thing we do, totally different.


No she didn't. She is simply a very tolerant spider. I have spiders that walk out when I open their cages too. Although most of the time, I think it's a good response. They don't love me. And never will. And I'm okay with that. I knew what animals I was buying and I accepted that fact. 
You are in denial.



Addison Chloe said:


> Why
> 
> Why though? I said why I thought she was a girl, why do you think she's a male?


Dull colors. Very obvious, dark abdomen band. Also, these guys are easy to tell the difference. Dont even need to check the furrow for a dot with these giys. Females are a beautiful white. 
	

		
			
		

		
	



Not the best example. But you can still see the differences. My 5" girlie.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Addison Chloe (Aug 29, 2017)

Mojo288 said:


> This thread is getting out of hand, my concern is a first time Tarantula keeper reads this drivel and starts to think its a good idea to handle a tarantula with possibly the most potent venom. This is NOT a good idea, they do NOT feel affection, at best they no longer recognize you as a threat, and that's a stretch . They don't want/need cuddles, they don't want to high five you (it's trying to check if your finger is too big to eat), they don't like your boyfriends base music. If you MUST make these statements, at the very least preface them by saying that this is your opinion, this is not scientific fact. You clearly do not have enough experience with these creatures to properly read body language. How would you feel if some 15 year old reads this and gets bit and ends up in the hospital with heart palpitations. You came into this thread asking for ways to "build up your confidence" to handle a VERY hot tarantula, it seems like you are asking for permission, you can do what you want, but don't go making it seem like it's advisable, do it or don't but trying to convince others that it's a good idea is ridiculous and irresponsible.
> 
> As for experienced keepers on AB saying its a good idea, i'm hoping they are sarcastic remarks.This thread is detrimental.


 If a 15 yr old read this, they would have the curiosity to pay attention and read my post. You are the only one making blatant statements based from ignorance. I never made claims I knew anything I started with "I believe that infects opinion, not fact.  I am sorry that my thread had struck a cord with you, but I believe you are very wrong in your thoughts though, I have not encouraged anyone to try this, trust me, and I iterated that I know the severity of my actions amd how dangerous the outcome could be, all I asked was for insight, that's all. You read into this thread too mich amd got riled up and I'm sorry, but you do not know me or my fiance or either of our arachnids, and I will tell you that Festes enjoys my fiance bass playing and the people who have witnessed this cam attest. Festes has made people laugh out of her antics, she's a cool and truly happy tarantula.

Reactions: Disagree 14


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## KooBea (Aug 29, 2017)

Leave Wellenough alone.

Sorry I had to say it.

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 3 | Funny 18 | Love 1


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## Mojo288 (Aug 29, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> If she thought I was good, why does she do it everyday with Me


It's checking to see if they item is too big to eat... my GBB does it, C. versicolor, P. metalica and plenty of others, specially with slow moving prey (wax/goliath worms). They extend a leg test it and if they are comfortable they go in for the kill, if not they back off... Unless they are high fiving the grubs too...

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2 | Helpful 1


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## 14pokies (Aug 29, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> If she thought I was good, why does she do it everyday with Me? I don't feed her but once a week....and I don't hand feed her I set them free and she likes to hunt them, she might have been testing me the first few times even, but she LEARNED that that was just a thing we do, totally different.


They react instictually and as far as we know have very little memory if any at all.. It sences the presence of your finger and inspects it accordingly.. It's determining whether it's a prey item or a threat.  You have gotten lucky all this time. Nothing more IMO.. 

I feel bad because you seem very genuine in your belief that you have a bond with your Tarantula.. I'm not trying to be a jerk, honestly, but I have to equate it to a mad man insisting he's not crazy when he's clearly acting insane.. 

What your doing is misinterpreting your Tarantulas behavior because you want to have a bond with it.

Reactions: Agree 10


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## EmilzHernandez (Aug 29, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> If a 15 yr old read this, they would have the curiosity to pay attention and read my post. You are the only one making blatant statements based from ignorance. I never made claims I knew anything I started with "I believe that infects opinion, not fact.  I am sorry that my thread had struck a cord with you, but I believe you are very wrong in your thoughts though, I have not encouraged anyone to try this, trust me, and I iterated that I know the severity of my actions amd how dangerous the outcome could be, all I asked was for insight, that's all. You read into this thread too mich amd got riled up and I'm sorry, but you do not know me or my fiance or either of our arachnids, and I will tell you that Festes enjoys my fiance bass playing and the people who have witnessed this cam attest. Festes has made people laugh out of her antics, she's a cool and truly happy tarantula.


Good to see you use her for party tricks. Very charming...ugh

Reactions: Love 1


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## cold blood (Aug 29, 2017)

female ornata












Resized952017030595163511



__ cold blood
__ Mar 5, 2017



						ornata
					




male ornata (penultimate)













blending in



__ cold blood
__ Jun 14, 2017



						subadult male ornata

Reactions: Like 3 | Informative 3


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## TRection (Aug 29, 2017)

Ok, After reading this whole thread now im about 90% sure this is a massive troll, but if OP truly is this ignorant then theres really nothing we can do, feel free to let us know what hospital room you end up in so we can send you "Get well soon" cards 

PS. I feel so sorry for your spiders, they most likely live a very stressful (and what will probably be a short lived) life thanks to you...

Reactions: Agree 7


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## Mojo288 (Aug 29, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> I will tell you that Festes enjoys my fiance bass playing and the people who have witnessed this cam attest. Festes has made people laugh out of her antics, she's a cool and truly happy tarantula.


This is not stating an opinion, you are trying to make this out to be an indisputable fact. They can attest? You have biologist friends who specialize in arachnids hanging out at your jam sessions? Or would it happen to be other people who know little to nothing about these creatures getting a kick out of your parlor tricks? The title of this thread is " I'm going to handle my ornata, lacking confidence" when someone reads this what would they think? O it's OK to handle an ornata i just need to buck up, THAT is the implication.... Again, do what you will, but the statements you are making and the vehemence of your statements are going to mislead beginners whether you like it or not.

Reactions: Agree 5 | Funny 1


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## 14pokies (Aug 30, 2017)

TRection said:


> PS. I feel so sorry for your spiders, they most likely live a very stressful and what will probably be a short lived life thanks to you...


Yea, I cringe everytime I see the OP stating the Tarantula loves Bass..

Reactions: Agree 6 | Funny 1


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## cold blood (Aug 30, 2017)

14pokies said:


> the Tarantula loves Bass..


who can blame them??













Pine



__ cold blood
__ Jul 25, 2016
__ 5

Reactions: Like 5 | Agree 1 | Funny 15 | Love 2 | Award 6


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## 14pokies (Aug 30, 2017)

cold blood said:


> female ornata
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You should send that male my way when your done with him 



cold blood said:


> who can blame them??
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Damn that's a lunker

Reactions: Like 3


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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 30, 2017)

cold blood said:


> who can blame them??
> 
> 
> 
> ...


In this picture you look for me like a good mix of Nicholas Cage and Kiefer Sutherland, with an hint, but just an hint, of Aaron Eckhart

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2 | Lollipop 3


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## cold blood (Aug 30, 2017)

14pokies said:


> You should send that male my way when your done with him


I'll hit you up.



14pokies said:


> Damn that's a lunker


Nice, but not quite....lol...it was beautifully marked...this one's a giant...

Reactions: Like 1 | Love 1


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## Ellenantula (Aug 30, 2017)

14pokies said:


> You should send that male my way when your done with him


Hers may arrive with emotional needs and high expectations....

[corrected]

Reactions: Funny 6


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## 14pokies (Aug 30, 2017)

cold blood said:


> Nice, but not quite....lol...it was beautifully marked...this one's a giant...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Both of those are giant's compared to the bass I have caught.. I don't have much luck as an Angler .. I caught a huge pickeral once and he released his sperm on my leg while I was removing the hook.. My brother called me spawn for like six months.. 



Ellenantula said:


> May arrive with emotional needs and high expectations....


It's cool I'll play paddy cakes with him and listen to Tool.. 

What.. What??? It works for the OP

Reactions: Funny 6


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## bryverine (Aug 30, 2017)

Sigh... Personification of our pets is quite understandable, but these creatures are not capable of socialization.

I like the hissing from my queen (when she graces my with her presence during feeding) and while it's not her actually talking to me or whispering words of gospel, it's nice to pretend... unfortunately, that's all it is... 

Fear not Chris, I'll sacrifice two of my largest and purest dubia for this blasphemy later...

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## Ellenantula (Aug 30, 2017)

This thread reads best with some Sri Lankan folk music in background.  And a glass of wine.  Just saying.

Reactions: Funny 8 | Love 1


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## MrTwister (Aug 30, 2017)

Wait....there was a part where Op stated they were getting through to the pokie with hand signals.......like sign language? Pretty incredible that you and the spider would be able to come up with a set of gestures that are understood by both parties without....you know.....being able to talk.....please document this method. My L.P keeps stealing my smokes. I keep giving it the finger, but I don't think it understands.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 17


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## Ellenantula (Aug 30, 2017)

MrTwister said:


> Wait....there was a part where Op stated they were getting through to the pokie with hand signals.......like sign language? Pretty incredible that you and the spider would be able to come up with a set of gestures that are understood by both parties without....you know.....being able to talk.....please document this method.


You mock what you don't understand -- it's a spiritual twin thing.  Sheeesh!

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Walker253 (Aug 30, 2017)

Handle the P ornata already. You clearly know more than anyone here. Walk the walk. Talks cheap.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 6 | Award 1 | Lollipop 1


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## TownesVanZandt (Aug 30, 2017)

@Addison Chloe I first thought this was nothing but a troll post, but you´ve posted some pics of some pretty reckless handling of your other T, so I feel I should give you some friendly advice here. Almost all reported bites from species with medical significant venom have been bites to the hands. What the consequences of a bite from a Pokie in the neck/head region might be no one knows, but I am 100% sure that you would not like to be the first to find out. If you ever let it walk in your hair or on your head you are putting yourself in real risk!

Reactions: Agree 9


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## mistertim (Aug 30, 2017)

14pokies said:


> You should send that male my way when your done with him


I think you mean when he's done with her.

Oh nevermind. For some reason I thought you were writing that to the OP. heh

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2 | Lollipop 1


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## 14pokies (Aug 30, 2017)

TownesVanZandt said:


> @Addison Chloe I first thought this was nothing but a troll post, but you´ve posted some pics of some pretty reckless handling of your other T, so I feel I should give you some friendly advice here. Almost all reported bites from species with medical significant venom have been bites to the hands. What the consequences of a bite from a Pokie in the neck/head region might be no one knows, but I am 100% sure that you would not like to be the first to find out. If you ever let it walk in your hair or on your head you are putting yourself in real risk!


Imagine a large dose of pokietoxin straight into the jugular vein... I don't scare easily but the idea of that sends chills down my spine.

Reactions: Agree 5


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## Anoplogaster (Aug 30, 2017)

14pokies said:


> Imagine a large dose of pokietoxin straight into the jugular vein... I don't scare easily but the idea of that sends chills down my spine.


In the interest of science, I would be curious to see what happens

Reactions: Agree 4 | Lollipop 1


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## Venom1080 (Aug 30, 2017)

I wanna know who voted the top and bottom options.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 5


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## mistertim (Aug 30, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> If she thought I was good, why does she do it everyday with Me? I don't feed her but once a week....and I don't hand feed her I set them free and she likes to hunt them, she might have been testing me the first few times even, but she LEARNED that that was just a thing we do, totally different.


Tarantulas are generally ambush predators, though they will go out close to their burrows/hides, etc to hunt for food as well. This means that (again, generally...sometimes this varies from tarantula to tarantula) they are also opportunistic eaters because in the wild it could be one day or months before more prey comes along. So unless you keep a tarantula very well fed they will likely eat if there is an opportunity.

That tarantula is testing to see if you're prey or possible predator. As others have also noted, I've seen mine do it many many times to their food and it is exactly as you described. Just be thankful that you can't vibrate the tip of your finger really really fast because you would have had your first tarantula bite. These are primal creatures that rely on instinct (again, as others have pointed out). Their tiny neural networks don't have the capacity for complex thought, memory, correlation, or emotion just like you'll never be able to play Battlefield 4 on an old Atari system. The capacity simply is not physically there...these are pure physiological and biological limits, not opinions.

Enjoy your tarantulas for what they are...fascinating and beautiful animals that are better off simply being observed and appreciated...not for what you want them to be. And handling that ornata is your choice, but one wrong move, one misplaced breath of air...hell one wrong thing that you can't even pick up but they can...and you're in the ER crying in pain.

You mentioned something about us being afraid of these creatures. Experienced keepers are not afraid of their spiders, but they respect them...especially something like a Poecilotheria. I have 2 Pokies and I am not afraid of either of them but I respect the hell out of them and work with them accordingly when I have to. Fear and respect are two very different things.

Good night, and good luck.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2 | Award 2


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## Mojo288 (Aug 30, 2017)

Venom1080 said:


> I wanna know who voted the top and bottom options.


5 more candidates for the Darwin awards

Reactions: Funny 2


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## miss moxie (Aug 30, 2017)

This is what I get for going to bed at 7pm like some grandmother. Should have done an hour of knitting before bed and I wouldn't have missed this thrilling read in real time.

Final thoughts: OP is either a troll or just suffering from cognitive dissonance. There were some incredible puns used. Last but not least, @Chris LXXIX, darling you must stop encouraging the rabble or I'm going to have to become quite cross with you. I'll pair a chianti with a white-sauce based fish. I'll eat at Olive Garden every chance I get and rate it online as 'Authentic Italian experience, America really does it better.' Don't test me.

To any newbies who don't know better, please do not hold your Poecilotheria ornata or any other old world tarantula.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 3 | Funny 5


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## Ungoliant (Aug 30, 2017)

MrTwister said:


> Wait....there was a part where Op stated they were getting through to the pokie with hand signals.......like sign language?


That's nothing. @KezyGLA taught his _Pterinochilus lugardi_ to sign whenever she wants a hug.


Click the thumbnail for a link to the original.

Reactions: Like 4 | Funny 7


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## Venom1080 (Aug 30, 2017)

miss moxie said:


> This is what I get for going to bed at 7pm like some grandmother. Should have done an hour of knitting before bed and I wouldn't have missed this thrilling read in real time.
> 
> Final thoughts: OP is either a troll or just suffering from cognitive dissonance. There were some incredible puns used. Last but not least, @Chris LXXIX, darling you must stop encouraging the rabble or I'm going to have to become quite cross with you. I'll pair a chianti with a white-sauce based fish. I'll eat at Olive Garden every chance I get and rate it online as 'Authentic Italian experience, America really does it better.' Don't test me.
> 
> To any newbies who don't know better, please do not hold your Poecilotheria ornata or any other old world tarantula.


I _thought _this thread was missing somebody.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## 14pokies (Aug 30, 2017)

Anoplogaster said:


> In the interest of science, I would be curious to see what happens


 I have fifteen pokies on hand at the moment.. Bring your neck we can make it happen ...



mistertim said:


> I think you mean when he's done with her.
> 
> Oh nevermind. For some reason I thought you were writing that to the OP. heh


No way once you high five your pokie your connected forever.. It's like the flying dragon things in Avatar.. Only death breaks that kind of bond

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Mojo288 (Aug 30, 2017)

Ungoliant said:


> That's nothing. @KezyGLA taught his _Pterinochilus lugardi_ to sign whenever she wants a hug.
> 
> 
> Click the thumbnail for a link to the original.


nonono he wants to get his fangs brushed before he gets tucked into bed, either that or they are practicing for tarantula soccer and mr. lugardi is trying out for goalie.(getting ready for the penalty kick)

Reactions: Funny 3


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## 14pokies (Aug 30, 2017)

Venom1080 said:


> I _thought _this thread was missing somebody.


Stop if you talk to her she will stay.. 

Scoot moxie scoot.. Run along now

Reactions: Agree 1 | Informative 1 | Funny 2 | Creative 1


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## Ungoliant (Aug 30, 2017)

Mojo288 said:


> either that or they are practicing for tarantula soccer and mr. lugardi is trying out for goalie.(getting ready for the penalty kick)


I think that lugardi would be a great football buddy. She already knows what to do when your team scores a touchdown.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 3


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## miss moxie (Aug 30, 2017)

14pokies said:


> Stop if you talk to her she will stay..
> 
> Scoot moxie scoot.. Run along now


Wow, what a rude person you are. I can't believe you're allowed to sashay around this forum like you own it. This was a personal attack and I will not stand by idly and allow this to happen. I hope they find a new species of Poecilotheria and render your user name outdated.

"14pokies? Doesn't that guy know there are FIFTEEN pokies? Haw Haw what a rube."

Reactions: Funny 9


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## Grace Cannell (Aug 30, 2017)

Mojo288 said:


> This thread is getting out of hand, my concern is a first time Tarantula keeper reads this drivel and starts to think its a good idea to handle a tarantula with possibly the most potent venom. This is NOT a good idea, they do NOT feel affection, at best they no longer recognize you as a threat, and that's a stretch . They don't want/need cuddles, they don't want to high five you (it's trying to check if your finger is too big to eat), they don't like your boyfriends bass music. If you MUST make these statements, at the very least preface them by saying that this is your opinion, this is not scientific fact. You clearly do not have enough experience with these creatures to properly read body language.


Oh don't worry, speaking as a novice, a simple application of knowledge about brain complexity and invertebrate behaviour is enough to conclude this is rubbish.

Reactions: Like 6 | Love 2


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## KezyGLA (Aug 30, 2017)

Mojo288 said:


> soccer


.. ahem.. football. 



Ungoliant said:


> football


Ehhh.. handegg.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 6 | Funny 10 | Award 2 | Face Palm 1


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## spotropaicsav (Aug 30, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> Hello everyone, this is my first online forum thread thing ever, and I'm reaching because I deeply care for my female pokie Ornata, Wellenough. She's almost two and such a character, great eater and can be very vocal, well throw her legs you know, but still. I want to hold her and she wants me to too, hard to explain,  but yeah I'm just at such a point of respect, it's hard to break the barrier. I only go in her terrarium with my hands, no tongs or anything, and yesterday she came crawling out to the opening I've been trying to get her to go to to handle her and she did and I got scared and couldn't do it. My only explanation is going online has only showed me the bite threat she poses and scared me, yet she's never scared me but the first night I had her, so I'm asking for help and insight!
> Thanks!


I wouldn't as previous posters have said. Although in your profile pic, it appears you have already handled your T and it has crawled on your shirt

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## boina (Aug 30, 2017)

Why, oh why, am I in a different time zone??? I missed all the fun. Now I'll be late for work because I had to read all this....

there's one question that hasn't been asked, though:

@Addison Chloe since you seem to really love your spiders why don't you provide a better setup for them? That pokie enclosure looks extremely bare and not at all like it could be comfortable for the spider. No wonder it comes out ever so often - it just doesn't like the home you provided.

Oh, and btw, I'm a real biologist with a real degree in animal behaviour (I even posted my diploma somewhere on here) and you are about as wrong as it gets about spider behaviour. You just make the interpretations of your spiders behavioural signs up as you go along. Believing in something doesn't make it true. To cite Richard Dawkins: By all means let's be open minded but not so open that our brains fall out.

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## Abbio (Aug 30, 2017)

@Addison Chloe if you're so connected and at ease with your little buddy why are you lacking confidence?

And why did you come to this forum for advice if you are only going to argue!

Hopefully we see an update (in the interest of science) on how this all pans out!

Reactions: Like 1


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## MetalMan2004 (Aug 30, 2017)

I really really really hope she does get it all on video and post it on youtube.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Abbio (Aug 30, 2017)

I guess they're all tucked up in bed together now

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Eva (Aug 30, 2017)

Wow, this thread escalated!

And you're all so unsupportive... I bet you're just jealous because none of you have mastered the ability to effectively communicate with your Ts using sign language!

And what about assuming that pokie's gender, eh? She can be whatever she wants and don't you dare tell her she can't be a princess!

Just FOLLOW YOUR DREAMS OP! (But read your T's chakra to see if it's safe and, just to be sure, ask her in sign language too!)

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## vespers (Aug 30, 2017)

Wow, I completely missed this train wreck last night...

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Python (Aug 30, 2017)

I can't believe what I just read. It boggles the mind. To the OP, I think you should hold both T's in the same hand. Let them get to know each other, become friends. That way, when you aren't home, they won't get lonely. You have already taken the anthropomorphic train out of the station, might as well open it up and see what it can do. At best, your T's will become fast friends and you will have a new trick to show all your buddies. At worst, they start fighting in your hand, one bites the other, you jerk your hand away in fright, they both die a relatively quick death and if you're lucky, you don't get bit in the process. 

That said, I think it might be prudent to think about this a little differently than you have. Let's say you are 100% correct and despite over a century of scientific study, your T's have developed a higher brain. What are the possible outcomes of holding a T? For sure you might hold it with no problems at all. It might go off without a hitch. But what happens if something spooks your T while it is on your hand? What if it runs off your hand, lands on the floor and pops like a zit? Would that have been worth the holding? Would you be ok watching the lifeblood (ok, hemolymph) spill out of your precious animal? Why take a chance on watching your T suffer a slow painful death (I know, but I figure since this isn't a rational conversation, I'll throw rational arguments out the window) when it can simply be avoided by not picking it up in the first place?

You really should consider what is best here, not what is wanted most. Parent's don't let their kids eat ice cream and cake for every meal because it's not best for them. You should be the parent here and step up and do what is right, not what you really, really want, and before you dismiss the people on here for saying what they have, understand that you have stepped into the largest collection of information on tarantulas anywhere in the world. The knowledge that these people possess has come from their love of these animals so don't think for a minute that they might have overlooked something that would allow them to communicate with their tarantulas. I promise you, if it was possible, it would have been posted here the moment it happened. There are literally thousands of people here who all share the same love of spiders that you think you do, but just a friendly piece of advice, learn about your animals in order to love them better. Do not assume that you can read their minds or predict their actions because you simply can't. Like I said, if it was possible, someone here would have already figured it out. You are not a pioneer here, trust me. It's all been done before and the results are usually predictably bad for both the owner and the spider. Just give these guys a chance and listen, not for your sake, but your tarantula's sake.

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## Addison Chloe (Aug 30, 2017)

I have seen this, why should mean I should live in fear. I will not try and handle her until I know the time is right, I just think there will be a right time, and not while trying to get a male out of her enclosure like this guy! He admitted he did a dumb thing and stuck his hand into it,  that is totally a different situation and you know it. 


Walker253 said:


>





JDS123 said:


> lmao be nice Venom lol
> 
> I know this is a hard one lol


I'm sorry in so thought provoking? Just because I have some crazy empathetic thoughts doesn't mean I'm stupid or a "hard one it's hard for me not to think you're all brain washed and small minded and don't give these animals enough credit, but I'm not, im simply asking what if, I said I understood the severity, and im not a dumb owner, im such a confidant owner in fact that I open myself up to serious negativity and harsh cruel jokes and words. I have nothing but be a curious question asked, and I get belittle. Your post was the first to make me think, they are no polar creatures, and that has got my creativity going. Thank you also for saying something to venom, I tried to be nice and actually asked him personally for his opinion, that was dumb and I hope he grows up and learns it unnecessary to try and hurt other just because they're obviously hurting. I will continue deep creative thoughts and keep you all updated with my and Wellenough's progress.

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## Ellenantula (Aug 30, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> I have seen this, why should mean I should live in fear. I will not try and handle her until I know the time is right, I just think there will be a right time, and not while trying to get a male out of her enclosure like this guy! He admitted he did a dumb thing and stuck his hand into it,  that is totally a different situation and you know it.


Agreed, different circumstance.
When you know you're ready, and you've done all your research, when you understand all the risks, and you are completely sure you are ready and the time is right...
I suggest getting a puppy or kitten.

I'm sorry this thread went on 6 pages -- to those 'in-the-know' it was both funny and scary.  I was gobsmacked.

Pokies are gorgeous but like all Ts, they lack brains with reasoning ability and logic (and emotion).  Ts have primitive ganglia -- their whole ingraining is survival based.  You might wish Ts could be emotional, but they physiologically lack this ability.  I also have a science degree -- this isn't speculation -- it is fact.

To a T, everything is either neutral (dirt/water) prey (nourishment/feeders) or a predator (danger/something that will kill them).   Perhaps your T views you as neutral.  Consider yourself lucky.
Their only goal in life is to survive long enough to reproduce and ensure their lineage.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Addison Chloe (Aug 30, 2017)

Python said:


> I can't believe what I just read. It boggles the mind. To the OP, I think you should hold both T's in the same hand. Let them get to know each other, become friends. That way, when you aren't home, they won't get lonely. You have already taken the anthropomorphic train out of the station, might as well open it up and see what it can do. At best, your T's will become fast friends and you will have a new trick to show all your buddies. At worst, they start fighting in your hand, one bites the other, you jerk your hand away in fright, they both die a relatively quick death and if you're lucky, you don't get bit in the process.
> 
> That said, I think it might be prudent to think about this a little differently than you have. Let's say you are 100% correct and despite over a century of scientific study, your T's have developed a higher brain. What are the possible outcomes of holding a T? For sure you might hold it with no problems at all. It might go off without a hitch. But what happens if something spooks your T while it is on your hand? What if it runs off your hand, lands on the floor and pops like a zit? Would that have been worth the holding? Would you be ok watching the lifeblood (ok, hemolymph) spill out of your precious animal? Why take a chance on watching your T suffer a slow painful death (I know, but I figure since this isn't a rational conversation, I'll throw rational arguments out the window) when it can simply be avoided by not picking it up in the first place?
> 
> You really should consider what is best here, not what is wanted most. Parent's don't let their kids eat ice cream and cake for every meal because it's not best for them. You should be the parent here and step up and do what is right, not what you really, really want, and before you dismiss the people on here for saying what they have, understand that you have stepped into the largest collection of information on tarantulas anywhere in the world. The knowledge that these people possess has come from their love of these animals so don't think for a minute that they might have overlooked something that would allow them to communicate with their tarantulas. I promise you, if it was possible, it would have been posted here the moment it happened. There are literally thousands of people here who all share the same love of spiders that you think you do, but just a friendly piece of advice, learn about your animals in order to love them better. Do not assume that you can read their minds or predict their actions because you simply can't. Like I said, if it was possible, someone here would have already figured it out. You are not a pioneer here, trust me. It's all been done before and the results are usually predictably bad for both the owner and the spider. Just give these guys a chance and listen, not for your sake, but your tarantula's sake.


Thank you as well, and I wish people didn't see this as such a "crazy" thread. Dare to dream? I did, and I came here because I know we're all lovers here and many of the people who have commented I'm sure have validity, but the way it was presented, especially by the whole first page of <edit>, was not okay, it was in fact online bullying. This is a place of all things spider, so why take time to smoosh one person's dream based solely off of fear and "history" 100 yrs ago, it wasn't thought that women were smart enough to vote, if you told someone they could communicate through a handheld  device you probably would have been thrown in a psych ward.it was though that the sun couldn't burn you at that time. I'm just saying it is possible that all the research done on these guys doesn't just stop.... Look I get that you feel everyone is so experienced here and if it had been tried it would have been here, but what I'm getting into it sounds like NO one has tried. I get the harsh judgements but they are judgements based off fear and limited knowledge and experience, so you know how hard it is to find any behavioral history about p. Ornatas, almost impossible, and even at libraries,  at least here in colorado, don't even carry a book on them because there us so little known, isn't is possible, that it just wasn't a thought back then, p. Ornatas were discovered all the way back in1890 and most of thr actual literature on them is from that time. Why can't change happen, in my experience m, change is constant and everywhere and necessary, no I'm reaching in tomorrow to hold her, but one day, she'll come on her own accord and it will be different. More people need faith in this world today. Open your minds

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## TyjTheMighty (Aug 30, 2017)

So I'm definitely tardy to this party... @Addison Chloe if you're really not going to listen to those who obviously have had more experience with tarantulas than you, then you really shouldn't have made this thread.
But do everyone a favor? When you do get bit, please post it in bite reports  I'm pretty curious to see what a Pokey bite to the face would look like.

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## Addison Chloe (Aug 30, 2017)

Ellenantula said:


> Agreed, different circumstance.
> When you know you're ready, and you've done all your research, when you understand all the risks, and you are completely sure you are ready and the time is right...
> I suggest getting a puppy or kitten.
> 
> ...


Your dry lead up to your rude insensitive buy a kitten or puppy line, almost had me going, I thought maybe you were a genuine person, but no just science troll. Science be damned!! There are so many things wrong with science don't even get me started, like gravity, <edit> ain't real, real rip off based off a truth yes, but magnetism is that truth. The world is put together in a harmonious flow of energy, every living thing and non living has energy. Spiders put thought in hunting methods to get creative to sneak up on prey, that's all thr capability needed. There is more than you think there is, science degree or not, you lack energy knowledge which I have, and I can tell you the energy all of my animals share with me is on a wavelength and it shifts and moves but is always there. I have rescued a parrot that was highly abused,  told could never be held yards yards, now he talks, he knows sentences, he let's me my fiance and my step son hold him, he laughs with us, he loves oink Floyd music in particular,  he has his own likes, just like Festes my other tarantula and the bass, she didn't react or care for anything,  but hmwhat bass guitar got her moving, she was drawn to it's energy and I posted pics of her on the bass, we didn't put her there, she crawled up my fiance and out herself there while he was playing,  almost every time he plays now, she'll come out. I believe that Wellenough has picked up on my energy to know my intentions and feel my lack of fear, good thing I didn't let these guys get to me or i would have reconsidered haha however, and the point would be to break barriers, I would do it outside, in a fenced area, and lay down let her get off me, feed her some big bug, just ideas so far, but one will manifest.

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## Ellenantula (Aug 30, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> Your dry lead up to your rude insensitive buy a kitten or puppy line, almost had me going, I thought maybe you were a genuine person, but no just science troll. Science be damned!! There are so many things wrong with science don't even get me started, like gravity, <edit> ain't real, real rip off based off a truth yes, but magnetism is that truth. The world is put together in a harmonious flow of energy, every living thing and non living has energy. Spiders put thought in hunting methods to get creative to sneak up on prey, that's all thr capability needed. There is more than you think there is, science degree or not, you lack energy knowledge which I have, and I can tell you the energy all of my animals share with me is on a wavelength and it shifts and moves but is always there. I have rescued a parrot that was highly abused,  told could never be held yards yards, now he talks, he knows sentences, he let's me my fiance and my step son hold him, he laughs with us, he loves oink Floyd music in particular,  he has his own likes, just like Festes my other tarantula and the bass, she didn't react or care for anything,  but hmwhat bass guitar got her moving, she was drawn to it's energy and I posted pics of her on the bass, we didn't put her there, she crawled up my fiance and out herself there while he was playing,  almost every time he plays now, she'll come out. I believe that Wellenough has picked up on my energy to know my intentions and feel my lack of fear, good thing I didn't let these guys get to me or i would have reconsidered haha however, and the point would be to break barriers, I would do it outside, in a fenced area, and lay down let her get off me, feed her some big bug, just ideas so far, but one will manifest.


Sorry if the truth was offensive -- it wasn't meant to offend but to keep you safe.
I don't believe in the supernatural -- I believe in what can be studied and observed.
I meant you well.
Ultimately, you're going to do as you want.
But I can sleep well knowing I did my best, sharing the best information we have available --so you won't get bitten.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 30, 2017)

Never read a so much full of passion statements like this one, recently.

Reminds to me the time when we, the *Goddess** humble devotees, managed to witness our benign hissing Mother defeat the Leader of genus _Hysterocrates _army, in a fair fight for Leadership. After they were forgiven by the *Goddess**, (_Hysterocrates_) are serving at the *Goddess** burrow's forefront, against Heresy 

*0.1 _Pelinobius muticus_ PBUH (Peace Be Upon Her)

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## Addison Chloe (Aug 30, 2017)

Ellenantula said:


> Sorry if the truth was offensive -- it wasn't meant to offend but to keep you safe.
> I don't believe in the supernatural -- I believe in what can be studied and observed.
> I meant you well.
> Ultimately, you're going to do as you want.
> But I can sleep well knowing I did my best, sharing the best information we have available --so you won't get bitten.


I was not offended I just think it's sad that that's how people choose to get a point across. I choose to be genuine and sincere, and I do appreciate you expressing your concern about me getting bitten but I didn't ask for concern, I clearly stated I knew what would happen if I got bit, I'm 5'7 and 101lbs with 4% body fat, trust, I know I would for sure be hospitalized, I was just asking, with fear out of the question for some insight, that was all.


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## Ellenantula (Aug 30, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> I'm not the one trolling, how did you get here,by asking if I was high in my thread, you not me. And that was rude and obviously I'm not high, I'm curious and you had make some smart ass comment, *so you are the troll, get off MY thread*.


It's a public forum.  You can't control who reads or replies.  If you want a completely private discussion -- there is a conversation area under "Inbox" you can use.



Addison Chloe said:


> I was not offended I just think it's sad that that's how people choose to get a point across. I choose to be genuine and sincere, and I do appreciate you expressing your concern about me getting bitten but I didn't ask for concern, I clearly stated I knew what would happen if I got bit, I'm 5'7 and 101lbs with 4% body fat, trust, I know I would for sure be hospitalized, I was just asking, with fear out of the question for some insight, that was all.


I can honestly say I never doubted your sincerity -- just your methods.  And then, my only concern was it involved handling a fast species with a medically significant venom for humans.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1


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## TyjTheMighty (Aug 30, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> Wow it's a good thing I have self esteem and don't go to you to get it hahaha for real like do you get off being a judgemental cynical prick to honest curious strangers. Shame on you.


I'm not trying to mess with your self-esteem. I'm being genuine. When you get bit, please post it.

Reactions: Like 2


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## boina (Aug 30, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> Thank you as well, and I wish people didn't see this as such a "crazy" thread. Dare to dream? I did, and I came here because I know we're all lovers here and many of the people who have commented I'm sure have validity, but the way it was presented, especially by the whole first page of shit, was not okay, it was in fact online bullying. This is a place of all things spider, so why take time to smoosh one person's dream based solely off of fear and "history" 100 yrs ago, it wasn't thought that women were smart enough to vote, if you told someone they could communicate through a handheld  device you probably would have been thrown in a psych ward.it was though that the sun couldn't burn you at that time. I'm just saying it is possible that all the research done on these guys doesn't just stop.... Look I get that you feel everyone is so experienced here and if it had been tried it would have been here, but what I'm getting into it sounds like NO one has tried. I get the harsh judgements but they are judgements based off fear and limited knowledge and experience, so you know how hard it is to find any behavioral history about p. Ornatas, almost impossible, and even at libraries,  at least here in colorado, don't even carry a book on them because there us so little known, isn't is possible, that it just wasn't a thought back then, p. Ornatas were discovered all the way back in1890 and most of thr actual literature on them is from that time. Why can't change happen, in my experience m, change is constant and everywhere and necessary, no I'm reaching in tomorrow to hold her, but one day, she'll come on her own accord and it will be different. More people need faith in this world today. Open your minds


NO. 'Open your minds' doesn't mean throwing everything we DO know out the window and just go with what we believe in. You have absolutely no evidence for all your clamis except that you believe in them. That makes your claims a religion.

So lets look at this scientifically. Every animal on this planet has "intellectual" abilities that allow it to survive in its environment. Tarantulas most likely are able to learn - up to a point. Let's just pick out one point:

"high five" with a tarantual as a form of connection.

For this to work the tarantula would first have to realize that your hand is just a small part of a very large (by tarantual standards) being. Since tarantuals can't see very well it is not able to see what's behind the hand. A tarantulas prime sense is tactile. In order to realize what you are it would have to walk all over you first. Then it would have to realize that you are one living being - that takes a lot of intellectual reasoning and there's nothing in the neuronal setup of a tarantula that indicates it would have this. Then it would need to want to connect with you. Now, does it have the ability to do that? Let's look at wild tarantulas. Who do they connect with? You'll find out that they don't - tarantulas are solitary animals and we do know that quite well. Now, for the purpose of connecting with you a tarantual would have to abandon all 100,000s of years of evolutionary developed instincts that tells it to stay solitary and decide that this being - that it has just, against all odds, recognized as one being - is worth connecting with. And this even encompasses two steps - step one: abandoning self sufficiency, step two: abandonning species barriers - every animal on the planet preferably connects with one of the same species. But it doesn't end here. For this "high five" to work the tarantula also has to realize that this gesture means something to you. So, it has to recognize you, an ability never proven for any invertebrate ever and even mice are challenges with that, then it has to go against it's instincts and connect with you, an ability that's challenging even for a lot of solitary vertebrates with much more brain power, and then it has to understand the meaning of this gesture for you.

So, without any evidence you just claim this to be true?

Science doesn't work like this. You cannot just go and throw all the things we do know in the trash just because you don't like them. Present evidence - real evidence - for your claims and not just wishful thinking - and I'm very willing to listen. But I don't believe in religion and 'I believe and therefor it's true' is religion

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## Abbio (Aug 30, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> I'm not the one trolling, how did you get here,by asking if I was high in my thread, you not me. And that was rude and obviously I'm not high, I'm curious and you had make some smart ass comment, so you are the troll, get off MY thread.



Obviously... do tell me more about how gravity isn't real..
Well you clearly aren't paying attention to anything anyone is saying, people are taking time to lend you their knowledge and experience and all you can say is that they have fear, no... they simply understand the T's and that actions have consequences which could be dangerous for you even more so the T's so why are you being so ignorant to this? because you don't believe in science?

Reactions: Agree 4


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## boina (Aug 30, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> Your dry lead up to your rude insensitive buy a kitten or puppy line, almost had me going, I thought maybe you were a genuine person, but no just science troll. Science be damned!! There are so many things wrong with science don't even get me started, like gravity, shit ain't real, real rip off based off a truth yes, but magnetism is that truth. The world is put together in a harmonious flow of energy, every living thing and non living has energy. Spiders put thought in hunting methods to get creative to sneak up on prey, that's all thr capability needed. There is more than you think there is, science degree or not, you lack energy knowledge which I have, and I can tell you the energy all of my animals share with me is on a wavelength and it shifts and moves but is always there. I have rescued a parrot that was highly abused,  told could never be held yards yards, now he talks, he knows sentences, he let's me my fiance and my step son hold him, he laughs with us, he loves oink Floyd music in particular,  he has his own likes, just like Festes my other tarantula and the bass, she didn't react or care for anything,  but hmwhat bass guitar got her moving, she was drawn to it's energy and I posted pics of her on the bass, we didn't put her there, she crawled up my fiance and out herself there while he was playing,  almost every time he plays now, she'll come out. I believe that Wellenough has picked up on my energy to know my intentions and feel my lack of fear, good thing I didn't let these guys get to me or i would have reconsidered haha however, and the point would be to break barriers, I would do it outside, in a fenced area, and lay down let her get off me, feed her some big bug, just ideas so far, but one will manifest.


Sorry, I posted my previous post before I read this. I don't believe in your 'energy' religion either.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 2


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## Addison Chloe (Aug 30, 2017)

Ellenantula said:


> I can honestly say I never doubted your sincerity -- just your methods.  And then, my only concern was it involved handling a fast species with a medically significant venom for humans.


 Oh and she's fast, the first night I got her, the next morning I went said hellloo!!! And she ping ponged across that tank, starting from day one I knew I had a bad ass, demanding respect arachnids on my hands, she threw her arms up when I tried to open the door to get her to calm down but I kept it open to let her know I was not a threat, we both stayed frozen for about 25 minutes and finally she out her arms down, I whispered that I would whisper from now one and she turned and went on her way, docile. I have never seen her move fast again, she's never thrown her legs up again, she's only ever seemed to be curious is all. And I have also thought about putting a stick in a glove finger and getting her used to that first, then I wouldn't feel so scared, Kevlar is pretty secure, but again I wouldn't want to it's just a safety idea. I've also thought about when I would do this, it would be alone, but timed out so my fiance would know if anything went too long and I would be in silence and use water, she loves water, like it's hard to explain, she almost tried to bath in it and will get right under in when I spray in there lol so maybe something with water, I will figure a way, and it won't be in the immediate future I assure and maybe all of you will have made an impression and I'll come to the conclusion that she is an observatory friend, but for now I'm dreaming and was asking for help and insight for a dream, that is all, thanks to you for entertaining it, I appreciate you.

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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 30, 2017)

This thread is full of 'Mysticism'

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 3


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## Addison Chloe (Aug 30, 2017)

TyjTheMighty said:


> I'm not trying to mess with your self-esteem. I'm being genuine. When you get bit, please post it.


Oh, thank you for the honest and in sad to say they're won't ever be a bite video, but when she's hanging on me, I'll get pics and hopefully video. You can plan on it.

Reactions: Disagree 1 | Optimistic 2


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## MrTwister (Aug 30, 2017)

The help and insight for your dream has been provided. It's a resounding " don't do it". If you choose to ignore this then by all means go play with your pokie. 

*for any new owners, never handle a pokie*

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## Walker253 (Aug 30, 2017)

Someone's 15 minutes should be up. 22 more posts and there will be a title change. Then expert status will be claimed...
This whole thread is nonsense. Entertaining, but nonsense. It's like watching a train wreck.

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## Addison Chloe (Aug 30, 2017)

boina said:


> NO. 'Open your minds' doesn't mean throwing everything we DO know out the window and just go with what we believe in. You have absolutely no evidence for all your clamis except that you believe in them. That makes your claims a religion.
> 
> So lets look at this scientifically. Every animal on this planet has "intellectual" abilities that allow it to survive in its environment. Tarantulas most likely are able to learn - up to a point. Let's just pick out one point:
> 
> ...


 Oh @boina, okay wow. I think you have taken my words and made don't assumptions and ran with them so let's clarify please because you are very wrong about me and my thoughts. I never said to "throw everything away we do know out the window and just go with what we believe" when it comes to the scientific perspective, I simply dare to question it. Science is super questionable. Even Darwin's theory of evolution has been disproved, and that is suppose to be super scientific, it's crap and a lie based off his own crazy theories and basis of scewed information and rash generalizations and conclusions. Science will always be debatable, and im not religious and your assumptions ate shallow. Energy is real whether you are shut off to it or not, it's how some animals off bat, like you, or they don't, it's the same with ppl, Why do thunknyou meet some ppl and think they are in my life for a reason, or, I don't like them and i dont know why, I just feel it. Don't live in denial, it's not a religion is the universe,  even the crock Einstein said tgat everything is this universe is made up of energy, tgat also means we are all connected, get on the same energetic wavelength, that's a bond or connection and it can be with a plant, animal or a person. There was an experiment done with 2 identical plants, one was only talked to lovingly,comfortably and positively and it flourished, the other was told, how ugly it was and how no one loved it, and it died only weeks later, that takes belief, it is still true, even though it's hard to comprehend, religion is a lie to get money and control out of people but energy is the fabric that ties all life together and it's undeniable.

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## Trenor (Aug 30, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> Science be damned!! There are so many things wrong with science don't even get me started, like gravity, shit ain't real, real rip off based off a truth yes, but magnetism is that truth.


Really? You really believe that gravity isn't real? That things don't fall when you drop them? That the force that holds our planet (and all the others in our system) in orbit around the sun is not real?

Magnetism is a totally different force. It doesn't have the same properties or affect the same things.

The above statement is like saying a donkey isn't real cause car. It makes no sense.

Why do people find it easier to make odd claims about the world rather then taking the time to understand how it works?

I'm not going into the T stuff aside from saying when you put the T on your BF's bass guitar it's sitting not moving because it is scared to death. When they are scared they try to freeze and make themselves small to avoid the thing they thing is endangering them. Please stop doing that. Terrorizing an animal for hours is not a kind thing to do. Doubly so depending on how well your BF plays the bass.

Please take time to understand the animals you are trying to keep. Enjoy them for what they are. Don't make their life terrifying by trying to force them to be what you would like for them to be instead of what they are.

Reactions: Agree 10 | Funny 1 | Love 4


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## Ellenantula (Aug 30, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> I know I would *for sure be hospitalized*, I was just asking, with fear out of the question for some insight, that was all.


Are you aware a lot of areas have local ordinances banning venomous creatures?  You end up in ER -- MD reports bite -- laws get passed.  Most people fear spiders and already would support making T keeping illegal.  We T keepers generally try to avoid any negative media attention.  You may not care about this hobby, but I don't want to lose my rights to keep venomous creatures.  Such ordinances have already affected the snake keeping community; and more and more localities are making blanket bans on venomous creatures.  
The hobby is larger than just you.  What you do can affect others in the US.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 4


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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 30, 2017)

miss moxie said:


> Last but not least, @Chris LXXIX, darling you must stop encouraging the rabble or I'm going to have to become quite cross with you. I'll pair a chianti with a white-sauce based fish. I'll eat at Olive Garden every chance I get and rate it online as 'Authentic Italian experience, America really does it better.' Don't test me..


Nooooo... 

I don't think you are masochist for doing something like that 

The only thing I really encourage is the Cult of our benign Mother, the *Goddess**

Praise the *Goddess** and Her *Prophet*** 

* 0.1 _Pelinobius muticus_ PBUH (Peace Be Upon Her)

** 0.1 _Pterinochilus murinus_ 'OBT' PBUS (Peace Be Upon her Soul)

As far as the handling issue, I always speak against. But at the same time, if an adult wants to handle at all costs so badly a venomous animal, I don't care too much nor I throw my  at the wall for that, definitely.

I'm even 'honest' at an ethic level (despite the jokes) for that I'm not even one that speaks against handling, then in his/her pic gallery (even _outside _this Forum in 'image hosting' sites ) there's uploaded pics of T's "handling" everywhere (not saying you or others, uh... just a thing I've noticed) as if their 'experience level' can help avoiding bites & troubles.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Addison Chloe (Aug 30, 2017)

Trenor said:


> Really? You really believe that gravity isn't real? That things don't fall when you drop them? That the force that holds our planet (and all the others in our system) in orbit around the sun is not real?
> 
> Magnetism is a totally different force. It doesn't have the same properties or affect the same things.
> 
> ...


I am sorry to put such a big idea out on to this particular thread, not the crowd to get to understand for sure. I will tell you, the thing you call gravity is real, of course, but not for the reasons you are taught, you were taught the theory of relativity, which "explains gravity,  but that theory was based off disproving August Piccards theory in 1913 that the world was not a sphere and the scientific community freaked out and "developed" the theory of relativity. Look it up, the evidence is overwhelming!! It's force,  the combination of electricity and magnetism, this creates light and sound and force, through velocity, that's where relativity theory went off track. And all magnets and electricity have energy that drives the universe in motion in a forwarding spiraling motion. It is logical, you just do not understand yet, it took me a long time to understand and I'm still understanding it, but it becomes clearer everyday. I yakebthe time to understand the world and how it is made up so understand how we are made up and of it. I hope you do more research sir.

As for my T's please read through the whole thread before making assumptions. I would NEVER force a T on to a bass guitar, obvious stress and cruelty, however, I will RE state, that she came out on her own accord, we thought it was a joke at first, to the point we've played flute, drums, trumpet, and regular guitar around her and she gives no cares, but the second my fiance does one strum, she comes out and  will make every effort to find where my fiance is and will climb up him while he's sitting, and she'll explore him and then on the bass and then on him again, ultimately for about 10 minute in average though she will find her way to the neck and literally snuggle down, she will make circles back and forth like a cat, it's incredible, and when she's done, she simply crawls back down my fiance and goes back to her tank, she's very independent and we trust with our space to roam when we are home, I really thunkbhes a comfortable spider that just happens to have a like for the the vibrations the bass gives off. That is also not biologically based and 100% true...so again, I hope tgat it is you that expands your mind.

Reactions: Disagree 3 | Sad 1 | Lollipop 1


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## Trenor (Aug 30, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> There was an experiment done with 2 identical plants, one was only talked to lovingly,comfortably and positively and it flourished, the other was told, how ugly it was and how no one loved it, and it died only weeks later, that takes belief, it is still true, even though it's hard to comprehend, religion is a lie to get money and control out of people but energy is the fabric that ties all life together and it's undeniable.


I've been yelling hateful things at the weeds in my yard for years and they are still growing like crazy despite the use of weed killer. Perhaps they have better self esteem then the ones used in your experiment. Regardless using only two plants to try and establish anything as fact is not valid.

BTW her using the term religion doesn't imply you subscribe to a mainstream faith. It just means you buy into things that have not been established by proof or goes contrary to the evidence.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 3 | Funny 7


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## TRection (Aug 30, 2017)

OMG i go to sleep, wake up, and this is still going. I guess i can finally say i have witnessed a train wreck in person now.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## Eva (Aug 30, 2017)

Trenor said:


> I've been yelling hateful things at the weeds in my yard for years and they are still growing like crazy despite the use of weed killer. Perhaps they have better self esteem then the ones used in your experiment.


It's obviously because the second plant felt betrayed that the first one got more love. The perceived extent of affection is clearly relative. You should pick one favourite weed and cherish it so that the others know how unloved they really are. That should make them commit suicide like nothing!

Reactions: Funny 6


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## boina (Aug 30, 2017)

Trenor said:


> I've been yelling hateful things at the weeds in my yard for years and they are still growing like crazy despite the use of weed killer. Perhaps they have better self esteem then the ones used in your experiment. Regardless using only two plants to try and establish anything as fact is not valid.
> 
> BTW her using the term religion doesn't imply you subscribe to a mainstream faith. It just means you buy into things that have not been established by proof or goes contrary to the evidence.


Thank you. At least someone understands me.

Reactions: Love 1


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## Addison Chloe (Aug 30, 2017)

Trenor said:


> I've been yelling hateful things at the weeds in my yard for years and they are still growing like crazy despite the use of weed killer. Perhaps they have better self esteem then the ones used in your experiment. Regardless using only two plants to try and establish anything as fact is not valid.
> 
> BTW her using the term religion doesn't imply you subscribe to a mainstream faith. It just means you buy into things that have not been established by proof or goes contrary to the evidence.


@Trenor  it's what you say to the weeds, start yelling at them, I want to see a garden with no weeds!! I started that way, I've had a bug and weed free garden for years now. And the two plants were just one experiment, there have been countless, look up the affects of how you talk to water Even! I promise your words have a heavier effect than you give them credit for.

And for the record, religion is more than that, it literally means to bind, to constrain, to hold back, religion is whole nother ball game off messed up bases. And to my knowledge I have been sharing my examples and my proof and continue to on a daily basis, the mind is powerful and what you tell it it will believe and will eventually manifest in one way or another I promise you that. I've had 27 years life experience of that



TRection said:


> OMG i go to sleep, wake up, and this is still going. I guess i can finally say i have witnessed a train wreck in person now.


Alright, and you, you haven't said anything but yick and trolling since you got on this thread, so I hope you got your negative fix for the day. I hope you can try and find positive things to contribute in the future, your life will be happier that way.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Sad 1 | Clarification Please 1 | Face Palm 1


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## mistertim (Aug 30, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> I'm sorry in so thought provoking? Just because I have some crazy empathetic thoughts doesn't mean I'm stupid or a "hard one it's hard for me not to think you're all brain washed and small minded and don't give these animals enough credit, but I'm not, im simply asking what if, I said I understood the severity, and im not a dumb owner, im such a confidant owner in fact that I open myself up to serious negativity and harsh cruel jokes and words. I have nothing but be a curious question asked, and I get belittle. Your post was the first to make me think, they are no polar creatures, and that has got my creativity going. Thank you also for saying something to venom, I tried to be nice and actually asked him personally for his opinion, that was dumb and I hope he grows up and learns it unnecessary to try and hurt other just because they're obviously hurting. I will continue deep creative thoughts and keep you all updated with my and Wellenough's progress.


Believing in science and evidence based research over hopes, personal anecdotes, and anthropomorphizing a spider because you really want to have some human connection with it does not make someone "brainwashed" or small minded. 

As far as "asking a curious question and getting belittled" your "curious question" was the equivalent of going into a motorcycle forum and saying "Hey guys, only been riding for a relatively short time but I just bought a 1000cc supersport bike and I was wondering what everyone here though about me riding on it in a tshirt and shorts with no helmet and trying standing wheelies while going 130 mph down the highway". Your question was about doing a very dumb and irresponsible thing and you got answers which reflected that.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Award 2


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## boina (Aug 30, 2017)

Abbandon all logic all ye enter here...

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 2 | Funny 6 | Love 3 | Award 2


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## Addison Chloe (Aug 30, 2017)

boina said:


> Thank you. At least someone understands me.


@boina, see too many people understand you, that's the problem, I'm trying to break through thoughts here and instead of keeping up with me am to be able to understand you just buddy up with the rest and make yourself feel better. That doesn't mean your right, at all. I wish you best of luck and hope you can open yourself up someday

Reactions: Dislike 1 | Disagree 1 | Sad 1 | Face Palm 2


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## 14pokies (Aug 30, 2017)

Donkeys don't exist because car ....

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Informative 1 | Funny 7


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## Ellenantula (Aug 30, 2017)

Semantics.  I think 'religion' here could be replaced with 'spirituality' or 'beliefs' or whatever offends you less.
Arguing the definition of religion totally misses the points being made.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Addison Chloe (Aug 30, 2017)

mistertim said:


> Believing in science and evidence based research over hopes, personal anecdotes, and anthropomorphizing a spider because you really want to have some human connection with it does not make someone "brainwashed" or small minded.
> 
> As far as "asking a curious question and getting belittled" your "curious question" was the equivalent of going into a motorcycle forum and saying "Hey guys, only been riding for a relatively short time but I just bought a 1000cc supersport bike and I was wondering what everyone here though about me riding on it in a tshirt and shorts with no helmet and trying standing wheelies while going 130 mph down the highway". Your question was about doing a very dumb and irresponsible thing and you got answers which reflected that.


Actually my questioon had no such depth to it. I made it clear this is not my first rodeo with spiders, and that I understood the severity of what she could do to me, I again, was asking out of imagination for the speculation of the idea manifesting. Anything can manifest, most people can't turn a light off before leaving the room for fear of a creepy feeling manifesting. Think bigger, my question might been dumb, but that's your opinion, I thought it would be smart to get some insight, research is how you gain knowledge and I got berrated, people were sarcastic and rude and tried to be hurtful. I was not irresponsible in asking either as seeing as that is more gathering thoughts to form a better opinion, I judged and laughed at, only a few even took me seriously, it would have been different if people had treated me equally and not accused me of being a troll or dumb or irresponsible, get past yourselves. Geez.



boina said:


> Abbandon all logic all ye enter here...


Sad how you choose to handle your lack of understanding.

Reactions: Dislike 1 | Face Palm 1


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## TRection (Aug 30, 2017)

I think we should all stop feeding the troll, guys, i refuse to believe this is real.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2 | Funny 2 | Award 5 | Winner 1 | Beer 1


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## Addison Chloe (Aug 30, 2017)

TRection said:


> I think we should all stop feeding the troll, guys, i refuse to believe this is real.


Haha wow, I hope you got your kicks for the day. You're a sad excuse for a contribution, your words are shallow and ignorant and this clip did make me laugh but for so months reasons you're going for. Ignorance is bliss isn't it mr. @TRection

Reactions: Disagree 1 | Sad 1 | Face Palm 1


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## mistertim (Aug 30, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> Actually my questioon had no such depth to it. I made it clear this is not my first rodeo with spiders, and that I understood the severity of what she could do to me, I again, was asking out of imagination for the speculation of the idea manifesting. Anything can manifest, most people can't turn a light off before leaving the room for fear of a creepy feeling manifesting. Think bigger, my question might been dumb, but that's your opinion, I thought it would be smart to get some insight, research is how you gain knowledge and I got berrated, people were sarcastic and rude and tried to be hurtful. I was not irresponsible in asking either as seeing as that is more gathering thoughts to form a better opinion, I judged and laughed at, only a few even took me seriously, it would have been different if people had treated me equally and not accused me of being a troll or dumb or irresponsible, get past yourselves. Geez.


Not all ideas deserve to be treated equally. I never said you were dumb. I said you were asking about doing something dumb. 

And stop pretending you're "researching" and gathering knowledge. You're doing no such thing as you've completely _ignored_ (or ridiculed, which is ironic considering how you're complaining about people doing that to you) all of the actual science and knowledgeably researched posts that many have made here in response to you, including one by an actual biologist. 

The bottom line is you think you have some sort of human connection with your spiders and you really want to handle your P. ornata and you're looking for reinforcement. You aren't going to get it here, period. Either accept it and move on and do as you will with your (probably very stressed, based on that enclosure setup) ornata, or be open to the possibility that YOU might be wrong about your beliefs in what spiders are or aren't capable of when it comes to complex thought and emotion.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 3 | Love 2


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## Addison Chloe (Aug 30, 2017)

TyjTheMighty said:


> I can't with this thread anymore -.-


And you're a sad hurting unit to be posting intentionally hurtful memes. Move along sir it's you guys that tarnish this thread. Humanity has come to this....wow.

Reactions: Dislike 1 | Disagree 1


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## mistertim (Aug 30, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> Sad how you choose to handle your lack of understanding.


Yeah what would a trained biologist know about animals anyway?

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Funny 6


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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 30, 2017)

I think this is one of the best threads in the history of Internet Forums. There's everything inside those virtual pages.

Science, religion, passion, mysticism, logic, rebellion, mind & heart, famous people of the past mentioned, geography, magnetism, spirituality, the 'doors' of comprehension... this is indeed a predestined thread: something that only very few observers are able to remain indifferent or resist at

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## JoshDM020 (Aug 30, 2017)

Guys, i tried to start a resource thread on rehousing methods and THIS got more attention than something that will actually be useful? Come on. 9 pages of this could be 9 awesome pages of rehousing tutorials for newbies that actually listen.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 4 | Funny 2 | Love 2


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## TRection (Aug 30, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> Haha Ignorance is bliss isn't it mr. @TRection


 It would seem so wouldnt it

Reactions: Like 4 | Funny 2


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## Addison Chloe (Aug 30, 2017)

Al


mistertim said:


> Not all ideas deserve to be treated equally. I never said you were dumb. I said you were asking about doing something dumb.
> 
> And stop pretending you're "researching" and gathering knowledge. You're doing no such thing as you've completely _ignored_ (or ridiculed, which is ironic considering how you're complaining about people doing that to you) all of the actual science and knowledgeably researched posts that many have made here in response to you, including one by an actual biologist.
> 
> The bottom line is you think you have some sort of human connection with your spiders and you really want to handle your P. ornata and you're looking for reinforcement. You aren't going to get it here, period. Either accept it and move on and do as you will with your (probably very stressed, based on that enclosure setup) ornata, or be open to the possibility that YOU might be wrong about your beliefs in what spiders are or aren't capable of when it comes to complex thought and emotion.


Alright @mistertim you have gotten me to want to be done with this thread yes. I have gathered what I needed. And I have researched and gathered, are you me, do you know what I do everyday? No, so don't assume. Moving on, I do do my research, that's why I bought her in the first place, and I made sure she was the one for me too, I met and looked at 7 other ornatas before we picked each other. I also don't aooreciatesayin I haven't listened to anything that actual biologists have tried to tell me, and that's bull, I acknowledged and listened and agreed and said I knew how dangerous, I understand that spiders arent supposed to be able to reach oast a certain learning capability, i simply asked if they thought it was possible based on my considerations, and guess what, NO one replied to those, and if they did it was negatively add on, not to actually get a conversation going. No one on here is willing to entertain any ideas I have, that's okay, i have come to the wrong place, and I get that now. You guys are very stuck in your beliefs, I chose to change mine.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Sad 1 | Face Palm 1


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## Eva (Aug 30, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> @Trenor  it's what you say to the weeds, start yelling at them, I want to see a garden with no weeds!! I started that way, I've had a bug and weed free garden for years now. And the two plants were just one experiment, there have been countless, look up the affects of how you talk to water Even! I promise your words have a heavier effect than you give them credit for.


(I am so sorry...cannot hold it...)

Ok, here it goes:
I want to see this thread with no more <edit>!
Begone, reason-denying ideas and cryptic spiritual gibberish!
Let there be clarity of thought and sober arguments once more!
I command thee thus!

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Love 2 | Award 2


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## MrTwister (Aug 30, 2017)

Please provide evidence of the following:

Avic leaving enclosure and willingly climbing on to bass for some sweet low end vibrations.

"getting through" to pokie via hand Signals.

You have the potential to change my opinion, but this requires evidence.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## Addison Chloe (Aug 30, 2017)

JoshDM020 said:


> Guys, i tried to start a resource thread on rehousing methods and THIS got more attention than something that will actually be useful? Come on. 9 pages of this could be 9 awesome pages of rehousing tutorials for newbies that actually listen.


Are you saying you are more important,  how do you know what interest people. I've seen 1000,s of rehousing threads and videos and guides and so on, to me it seems you're jealous my thread got more  than yours, and I am genuinely sorry toy feel that way, but making your comment did not do me, you, or anyone on here any good sir....

Reactions: Dislike 3 | Funny 3 | Face Palm 1


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## Little Grey Spider (Aug 30, 2017)

KooBea said:


> Leave Wellenough alone.
> 
> Sorry I had to say it.


I'm sad I didn't think of that....

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Funny 2


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## Addison Chloe (Aug 30, 2017)

MrTwister said:


> Please provide evidence of the following:
> 
> Avic leaving enclosure and willingly climbing on to bass for some sweet low end vibrations.
> 
> ...


@MrTwister  I will give you this sir,  I will get video on here somehow and show you all.

Reactions: Like 3


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## TownesVanZandt (Aug 30, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> it's what you say to the weeds, start yelling at them, I want to see a garden with no weeds!! I started that way, I've had a bug and weed free garden for years now. And the two plants were just one experiment, there have been countless, look up the affects of how you talk to water Even! I promise your words have a heavier effect than you give them credit for.


Yelling at the weeds, talking to water? This thread is getting mighty weird! Thanks for sharing with us, Addison

Reactions: Funny 3 | Love 1


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## mistertim (Aug 30, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> Are you saying you are more important,  how do you know what interest people. I've seen 1000,s of rehousing threads and videos and guides and so on, to me it seems you're jealous my thread got more  than yours, and I am genuinely sorry toy feel that way, but making your comment did not do me, you, or anyone on here any good sir....


Honest question...if you've really seen "1000s" of rehousing threads and video guides, why is your P. ornata still in such an inadequate enclosure?

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 7 | Funny 1 | Award 2


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## Leila (Aug 30, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> Look I get that you feel everyone is so experienced here and if it had been tried it would have been here, but what I'm getting into it sounds like NO one has tried


See, the thing is..plenty of people have said and done the things you are saying and doing. Have a peek at YouTube.
You aren't some _Theraphosidae _Pioneer; there is _nothing _original about what you are suggesting in your paragraphs that are fraught with run-on sentences and mystical ramblings.

By the way, plenty of people here began this laborious journey of a thread with plenty of friendly insight and advice. Perhaps you should have been more in-tune with that energy instead of ignorantly sitting there, incessantly professing words/ideals we have heard a million times.




Trenor said:


> Terrorizing an animal for hours is not a kind thing to do. Doubly so depending on how well your BF plays the bass.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 2 | Love 1


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## TRection (Aug 30, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> Al
> 
> Alright @mistertim you have gotten me to want to be done with this thread yes. I have gathered what I needed. And I have researched and gathered, are you me, do you know what I do everyday? No, so don't assume. Moving on, I do do my research, that's why I bought her in the first place, and I made sure she was the one for me too, I met and looked at 7 other ornatas before we picked each other. I also don't aooreciatesayin I haven't listened to anything that actual biologists have tried to tell me, and that's bull, I acknowledged and listened and agreed and said I knew how dangerous, I understand that spiders arent supposed to be able to reach oast a certain learning capability, i simply asked if they thought it was possible based on my considerations, and guess what, NO one replied to those, and if they did it was negatively add on, not to actually get a conversation going. No one on here is willing to entertain any ideas I have, that's okay, i have come to the wrong place, and I get that now. You guys are very stuck in your beliefs, I chose to change mine.


So because no one else agrees with you or your ignorance they are all negative and unwilling to have a conversation? the fact that this thread has 9 pages is proof that they do. Sometimes in life we make bad choices, and no amount of "conversation" will make others think it was the right thing to do. Learn how to take criticism regardless of how different to your opinion it is. You have triggered A LOT of people with this thread. People that have both life and educational experience that is FAR greater than yours and no amount of your "i want to believe" attitude is going to change that..Take the loss and move on, as you said yourself, you have come to the wrong place with this Nonsense.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 4


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## boina (Aug 30, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> Sad how you choose to handle your lack of understanding.


You have shown an absolutely astounding ability to misunderstand, misconstrue and misrepresent everything I posted here including ignoring all the important bits - and you talk about lack of understanding???

Reactions: Agree 4 | Funny 1 | Love 1 | Winner 1


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## Little Grey Spider (Aug 30, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> Are you saying you are more important,  how do you know what interest people. I've seen 1000,s of rehousing threads and videos and guides and so on, to me it seems you're jealous my thread got more  than yours, and I am genuinely sorry toy feel that way, but making your comment did not do me, you, or anyone on here any good sir....


He's not jealous you got more responses.... Is THAT what you did this for??
While you're busy waiting for the mothership, people on here have other threads with real concerns and in need of advice yet you're hijacking all the attention (which, I suspect, you really like) on a BS thread that people feel the need to respond to because the title alone is so ludicrous that it would be absolutely negligent of responsible tarantula owners to sit by and NOT tell you what an absolutely MORONIC idea it is to cuddle a pokie. <edit>. Either way, I'm praying for you. Seriously. Best of luck.

Reactions: Like 5 | Award 2


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## Ellenantula (Aug 30, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> I will get video on here somehow and show you all.


Nothing you can post would be unique.  We've all seen handling videos -- including the ill-advised handling of some 'hot' speedy Ts.  
My only hope is 1) you don't get bit & 2) you don't bring further negativity to the hobby.

You seem to think no one understands where you're coming from.  I understand -- I just don't agree. 

Peace.

Reactions: Agree 5


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## Addison Chloe (Aug 30, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> @MrTwister  I will give you this sir,  I will get video on here somehow and show you all.





mistertim said:


> Honest question...if you've really seen "1000s" of rehousing threads and video guides, why is your P. ornata still in such an inadequate enclosure?


I will give you that, she gained 1 inch  on both ends in growth, she was 2 inches shorter 3 days ago, those pictures were from the day the molted, she was super fresh, and seemed animated and active, which was weird and got me curious enough to reach out on here I  thr first place.  I plan on re housing her immediately, just have to get the buffet terrarium together, I thought I had another week or so til she molted. And that enclosure was awesome, we made it open front ways with holes and set up water and rolls and branches and her log hide. @mistertim I promise she will be an adequate enclosure and will post updates


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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 30, 2017)

TownesVanZandt said:


> Yelling at the weeds, talking to water? This thread is getting mighty weird! Thanks for sharing with us, Addison


I agree my friend. Those genuine words are powerful... the essence of 'beauty' itself, for me.

What's beauty? It's innocence and purity, and nothing else, if you ask me 

I took my hat off in front of Addison Chloe... had she lived in the Italy of back then, and every _Mecenate _(Patron of the art) would had fight for promote her.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## TyjTheMighty (Aug 30, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> And you're a sad hurting unit to be posting intentionally hurtful memes. Move along *sir* it's you guys that tarnish this thread. Humanity has come to this....wow.


Did you just assume my gender?
Well, it shouldn't surprise me really since you're still referring to your male P. ornata as a she...

Reactions: Agree 3 | Funny 10


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## Eva (Aug 30, 2017)

TyjTheMighty said:


> Did you just assume my gender?
> Well, it shouldn't surprise me really since you're still referring to your male P. ornata as a she...


Leave her alone, Wellenough can be whatever she likes!
She's stunning and brave!

Reactions: Funny 13


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## JoshDM020 (Aug 30, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> Are you saying you are more important,  how do you know what interest people. I've seen 1000,s of rehousing threads and videos and guides and so on, to me it seems you're jealous my thread got more  than yours, and I am genuinely sorry toy feel that way, but making your comment did not do me, you, or anyone on here any good sir....


Ya got me. I want to be laughed at just as much as you are! 
Actually, my comment might be one of few that does some good. Now people will be curious, find said rehousing resource thread, and actually learn something. Do i want attention? No. Seldom do i even prefer being noticed at all.
 But i am an intellectual and enjoy the spreading of actual knowledge. Dont get me wrong, im a very spiritual person. But i know where it starts and ends. Magnetism? Unless you specifically mean SPIRITUAL magnetism, anything that doesnt contain metal (i.e. bouncy balls, plexiglass, most toothbrushes) would be floating around or launching into space. Thats just as ridiculous as this new wave of people convinced the world is flat.
No. I dont want attention. You can have that. I DO want people to take me seriously, and actually help people. 
But I'm sorry you feel that way. Bless your little heart.

Reactions: Like 6


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## vespers (Aug 30, 2017)

TRection said:


> "i want to believe"


This has been a great episode of _"The T-Files"...._

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Funny 10


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## mistertim (Aug 30, 2017)

Eva said:


> Leave her alone, Wellenough can be whatever she likes!
> She's stunning and brave!


And GRAVITY...THAT <edit> AIN'T REAL! (she literally said that earlier), so Wellenough can just float up and kiss her on the cheek if she likes.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 7


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## Little Grey Spider (Aug 30, 2017)

vespers said:


> This has been a great episode of _"The T-Files"...._


The truth is out there

Reactions: Like 3


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## Venom1080 (Aug 30, 2017)

Some one explain the well enough joke to me. Apparently I'm The only one who doesn't get it.

We are extremely experienced, especially compared to you. I actually did read all you replied.

Your ornata is male. You may just be forgetting, but based on the other stuff you've said. You might just be in denial.

I wouldn't be surprised if your versi dropped dead from the extreme amounts of stress you place on it.

Also, I think it's hilarious that you managed to get active member status overnight.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3 | Funny 5


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## PidderPeets (Aug 30, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> I will give you that, she gained 1 inch  on both ends in growth, she was 2 inches shorter 3 days ago, those pictures were from the day the molted, she was super fresh, and seemed animated and active, which was weird and got me curious enough to reach out on here I  thr first place.  I plan on re housing her immediately, just have to get the buffet terrarium together, I thought I had another week or so til she molted. And that enclosure was awesome, we made it open front ways with holes and set up water and rolls and branches and her log hide. @mistertim I promise she will be an adequate enclosure and will post updates


Would it be possible for you to post full pictures of your P. ornata's current enclosure and future one once it's ready? I admit I don't own any pokies so I don't know many specifics on their care, but I can say that I've never seen a pokie kept in the same way it appears you're keeping yours. I just want to ensure that it's being kept in the most suitable enclosure possible.

It'd also be helpful to get a picture of your versicolor's enclosure as well, for the same reasoning as the ornata. (Forgot to add I do have a versi, so I can at least offer care advice with them)

I've been wondering about the enclosures since this thread started up, but the "handling debate" has taken priority. I have absolutely no interest in getting involved in that debate. But I sincerely want to make sure your tarantulas are being kept properly. And up until your response on the matter, it was very disheartening to see the inquiries on their enclosures constantly get swept away by the other comments.

I'm hoping the potential enclosure issues get addressed, and if necessary, others will be able to help make corrections if needed

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## TownesVanZandt (Aug 30, 2017)

Venom1080 said:


> Some one explain the well enough joke to me. Apparently I'm The only one who doesn't get it.


Wellenough is the name she has given to that soon-to-be-handled P. ornata

Reactions: Like 2


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## Venom1080 (Aug 30, 2017)

TownesVanZandt said:


> Wellenough is the name she has given to that soon-to-be-handled P. ornata


Yeah I got that part. Just not the leave well enough alone.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2


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## TownesVanZandt (Aug 30, 2017)

Venom1080 said:


> Yeah I got that part. Just not the leave well enough alone.


Oh, now I´m confused too...

Reactions: Funny 2


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## PidderPeets (Aug 30, 2017)

Venom1080 said:


> Yeah I got that part. Just not the leave well enough alone.


"Leave well enough alone" is a common  phrase. The best similar phrase I can think of is "If it's not broken, don't fix it"

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2 | Informative 1 | Love 1


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## Ellenantula (Aug 30, 2017)

Just a pun (intended by OP when she named her T).

Meaning to just leave things as they are:  Leave well enough alone.


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## Venom1080 (Aug 30, 2017)

PidderPeets said:


> "Leave well enough alone" is a common  phrase. The best similar phrase I can think of is "If it's not broken, don't fix it"


Eh, guess I'm too young for that. Don't think I've ever heard that.

Reactions: Informative 1 | Funny 1 | Lollipop 1 | Cookie 1


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## Grace Cannell (Aug 30, 2017)

What an entertaining read.

I'm not even going to respond to the gravity stuff, my brain is too fried from my masters dissertation to stick up for empirically tested theories.

OP, I don't know what you expected in terms of people's responses but it's all been pretty spot on. Anthropomorphise your T all you want but it doesn't change the fact that it doesn't have a complex enough brain to understand and emit emotions the way we do. So other than a risk of it being dropped or thrown; being frightened or not won't make the blindest bit of difference to your pokie whatsoever. It cannot register fear, it's not like mammals who have a level of emotional intelligence. You can whisper it sweet nothings, give it flowers on birthdays and Christmas but at the end of the day if it wants to bite you it will. I couldn't put my health and my hand's anatomy at risk on the off chance an animal might love me. That's all I can say.

Also, your use of commas made me breathless even when reading in my head.

Reactions: Like 5 | Agree 4


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## PidderPeets (Aug 30, 2017)

Venom1080 said:


> Eh, guess I'm too young for that. Don't think I've ever heard that.


I seriously hope it's just a regional thing and you're not actually too young for that. I'm in my early 20s, I'm not supposed to be made to feel old!

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## Walker253 (Aug 30, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> Are you saying you are more important,  how do you know what interest people. I've seen 1000,s of rehousing threads and videos and guides and so on, to me it seems you're jealous my thread got more  than yours, and I am genuinely sorry toy feel that way, but making your comment did not do me, you, or anyone on here any good sir....


You've seen thousands of rehousing threads and videos and guides and so on? Did you happen to read or watch any of them or did you scoff off that advice too? I think we both know the answer...

Am I mean? In some eyes, yes. But really, I am real. There are many people here that have walked that path many times before. But you know more, because in some fantasy world in your 27 years of experience at age 27 (that's a laugher too) you decided as a typical millennial that all of your "self gained knowledge" somehow trumps others who have walked the walk and have years of actual real like experience.

The thing that makes this board great is getting the good advice from people who know what they're talking about because they have actual hands on experience and they learned it from another with actual hands on experience. You make me laugh the way you come in here and take a big ole dump on decades of real stats and practice.

The inevitable will happen, maybe not the first time, but it will happen. You'll disappear, never admitting what happened. You aren't the first, you won't be the last.

I thought it humorous how you also scoffed off the video I posted by Rob C getting bit by his female ornata. You just think his hand went between the two he was pairing. That guy has more tarantula knowledge in the piece of toenail he clipped off last week than you have in your 27 years of experience at age 27 (still laughing). Light up another one...

Reactions: Like 6 | Love 1 | Award 1


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## Walker253 (Aug 30, 2017)

Ellenantula said:


> Nothing you can post would be unique.  We've all seen handling videos -- including the ill-advised handling of some 'hot' speedy Ts.
> My only hope is 1) you don't get bit & 2) you don't bring further negativity to the hobby.
> 
> You seem to think no one understands where you're coming from.  I understand -- I just don't agree.
> ...


I agree and disagree. I hope she gets bit. This thread will continue until it happens. It will rank right there with the "What species of tarantula is this" thread. It will bring to conclusion this, as Chris stated, the greatest thread in the history of online threads.



Venom1080 said:


> Also, I think it's hilarious that you managed to get active member status overnight.


Haha, Venom, she's less than 10 replies from titling up. Would it be the first time it happened in one thread? Young Moakmeister would be jealous. Hahahahahaha

Reactions: Funny 5 | Love 2 | Award 1


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## PidderPeets (Aug 30, 2017)

Chris LXXIX said:


> That's the sprit! I'm 23 (just yesterday) and I'm not old at all as well


Hey, you're only as old as you feel! But my labor intensive job and the resulting achy muscles and bones make me feel pretty old

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ellenantula (Aug 30, 2017)

Walker253 said:


> I agree and disagree. I hope she gets bit.


I agree and disagree.  A bite could be explained by a miscalculated energy exchange or some magnetic misunderstanding.   

[witty Deepak Chopra quote inserted here]

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 5


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## EulersK (Aug 30, 2017)

I really do wish that her P. ornata was a female. Mature males are usually much more passive, so I won't be surprised if the OP actually successfully handles him.

Reactions: Informative 1 | Funny 1 | Sad 3 | Optimistic 1


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## Eva (Aug 30, 2017)

PidderPeets said:


> "Leave well enough alone" is a common  phrase. The best similar phrase I can think of is "If it's not broken, don't fix it"


Never even occurred to me to look it up, but it seems you're right!
http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/leave+well+enough+alone
I have to give it to OP, that is a neat name!

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## 14pokies (Aug 30, 2017)

EulersK said:


> I really do wish that her P. ornata was a female. Mature males are usually much more passive, so I won't be surprised if the OP actually successfully handles him.


My big female ornata is a doll.. Very bold as far as pokies go.  She let's me snap pictures of her from mere inches.. My male sub adult rufilata on the other hand throws a threat whenever I touch his enclosure.. He's one of the most defensive pokies I've ever owned ..

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Python (Aug 30, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> Thank you as well, and I wish people didn't see this as such a "crazy" thread. Dare to dream? I did, and I came here because I know we're all lovers here and many of the people who have commented I'm sure have validity, but the way it was presented, especially by the whole first page of shit, was not okay, it was in fact online bullying. This is a place of all things spider, so why take time to smoosh one person's dream based solely off of fear and "history" 100 yrs ago, it wasn't thought that women were smart enough to vote, if you told someone they could communicate through a handheld  device you probably would have been thrown in a psych ward.it was though that the sun couldn't burn you at that time. I'm just saying it is possible that all the research done on these guys doesn't just stop.... Look I get that you feel everyone is so experienced here and if it had been tried it would have been here, but what I'm getting into it sounds like NO one has tried. I get the harsh judgements but they are judgements based off fear and limited knowledge and experience, so you know how hard it is to find any behavioral history about p. Ornatas, almost impossible, and even at libraries,  at least here in colorado, don't even carry a book on them because there us so little known, isn't is possible, that it just wasn't a thought back then, p. Ornatas were discovered all the way back in1890 and most of thr actual literature on them is from that time. Why can't change happen, in my experience m, change is constant and everywhere and necessary, no I'm reaching in tomorrow to hold her, but one day, she'll come on her own accord and it will be different. More people need faith in this world today. Open your minds


I hope that you don't sincerely believe that in a century plus that you are the first person to believe thay they could connect with a T on a spiritual level or anything of the sort. I promise you that when it comes to this forum, there are very few new ideas. Yours is not. It has been thought of and tried by many people before you and while a few may have gotten away with it, most have discovered a very painful reality. So far, nothing you've said (in relation to the tarantulas that is) is new. Sadly, many animals have met an untimely death due to owners thinking they know better than the scientists who have researched and studied T's for decades.

This may sound mean or cruel or whatever, but I would think that most people here aren't concerned with your well being. You'll survive. Most people are concerned with your animal's well being. No one here wants to see a preventable death occur. There are simply too mamy variables that you cannot account for. All animals are skittish by nature, tarantulas especially so. Pokies in particular are known for their unpredictable habits. Even if you can successfully hold one without being bitten, can you guarantee that your spider won't bolt from your hand and fall to the floor? Trust me on this, whether you believe in gravity or not, I have seen too many ruptured abdomens to discount it just yet. You don't have to believe anyone here about whether your T feels or not. Just believe that if something happens and it dies due to a fall, you will be the reason it dies. Is this something you are willing to risk?

The people here know what they are talking about because of decades of research and testing by hundreds if not thousands of individuals who have used every resource available to learn as much as possible about these creatures. While, admittedly, we don't know everything about them, we do know an awful lot. This happens to be one of the things that we know.

If love and lack of fear were the only requisite attributes to hamdling a tarantula safely, it would have been done before now. The lack of literature supporting this and the abundance of evidence refuting it should be enough to convince anyone that this is false. There used to be a guy here years ago that had absolutely no fear. In fact he actually made things bite him so he could post bite reports. If memory serves he was banned and all of his bite reports were removed because it promoted irresponsible behavior (do any of the old timers remember this?) According to your idea, his lack of fear should have precluded him being bitten.

After all is said and done, it's just not worth the risk. There are too mamy things that can go wrong just to hold a spider, and none of it ends well for the spider. The fact remains, I would rather have a live T that I've never touched rather than a dead one I did. You are beng given as much useful information as can be given, I only hope you choose to make the right decision.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 4 | Love 1 | Award 1


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## EulersK (Aug 30, 2017)

14pokies said:


> My big female ornata is a doll.. Very bold as far as pokies go.  She let's me snap pictures of her from mere inches.. My male sub adult rufilata on the other hand throws a threat whenever I touch his enclosure.. He's one of the most defensive pokies I've ever owned ..


Well, I for one hope for the latter in her case. Her blatant dismissal of scientific facts leads me to believe that she'd rub magnets on the bite for treatment.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 8 | Optimistic 1 | Creative 1


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## 14pokies (Aug 30, 2017)

EulersK said:


> Well, I for one hope for the latter in her case. Her blatant dismissal of scientific facts leads me to believe that she'd rub magnets on the bite for treatment.


Come on man.. Clearly she's new age she knows not to use magnets.  You rub crystals on pokie bites.  Duh..

Reactions: Like 2 | Informative 2 | Funny 11 | Love 1


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## Walker253 (Aug 30, 2017)

@14pokies and @EulersK You're both amateurs
https://www.thoughtco.com/top-healing-gemstones-1729395

Reactions: Informative 2 | Funny 7 | Helpful 1


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## PidderPeets (Aug 30, 2017)

Eva said:


> Never even occurred to me to look it up, but it seems you're right!
> http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/leave+well+enough+alone
> I have to give it to OP, that is a neat name!


Yeah, she definitely deserves credit for her creative naming

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Andrea82 (Aug 30, 2017)

WEED.

Reactions: Agree 3 | Funny 3 | Love 1


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## PidderPeets (Aug 30, 2017)

Andrea82 said:


> WEED.


WHERE????


(Sorry, couldn't resist)

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 3


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## Walker253 (Aug 30, 2017)

PidderPeets said:


> WHERE????
> 
> 
> (Sorry, couldn't resist)


Colorado, go figure...
Wonder if I can zero the location in a bit closer and guess Boulder.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## EulersK (Aug 30, 2017)

Walker253 said:


> Colorado, go figure...
> Wonder if I can zero the location in a bit closer and guess Boulder.


I actually Googled her username... yeah, don't do that on a work computer

Reactions: Informative 1 | Funny 3


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## Andrea82 (Aug 30, 2017)

PidderPeets said:


> WHERE????
> 
> 
> (Sorry, couldn't resist)


I'm Dutch. It's everywhere

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2 | Love 1


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## Ellenantula (Aug 30, 2017)

PidderPeets said:


> Yeah, she definitely deserves credit for her creative naming


Yeah, um, except for the part where she *won't* leave WellEnough alone.  lol

Reactions: Funny 2 | Winner 1


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## boina (Aug 30, 2017)

EulersK said:


> I actually Googled her username... yeah, don't do that on a work computer


Great - of course that made me intensely curious... and I'm still at work. Ooooops .


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## miss moxie (Aug 30, 2017)

Actually, you use a combination of Rose Quartz, Hemimorphite, and Jasper while using your aromatherapy diffuser to blend lavender and chamomile oils together.

After that you're going to need to fill a kiddy pool with warm water and salt and float inside of it while listening to the hum of the universe.

Then you're going to want to give your tarantulas away to proper keepers and throw your laptop into the trash.




Does anyone wonder sometimes if threads like these are placed by mods to test us? Because I feel tested. Lort do I feel tested.



boina said:


> Great - of course that made me intensely curious... and I'm still at work. Ooooops .


UNICORN. it has to do with UNICORN.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 9 | Award 1


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## Walker253 (Aug 30, 2017)

boina said:


> Great - of course that made me intensely curious... and I'm still at work. Ooooops .


Use your phone and your data, lol

Reactions: Funny 1


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## boina (Aug 30, 2017)

Walker253 said:


> Use your phone and your data, lol


Toooo late...

Reactions: Funny 2 | Love 1


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## Addison Chloe (Aug 30, 2017)

Alright can the magnetism jokes at least end, you all know NOTHING about magnetism obviously and it's one of the building blocks of the universe. And I have used magnetic therapy and other forms, I can make your headache go away in minutes, your vertigo stop, you guys have NO idea. And crystals are whole other ball game, and all 3 of you can know that you may be making the jokes now, but in the end the joke will be on you. 


EulersK said:


> Well, I for one hope for the latter in her case. Her blatant dismissal of scientific facts leads me to believe that she'd rub magnets on the bite for treatment.

Reactions: Funny 3 | Love 1 | Optimistic 1 | Lollipop 2 | Beer 1 | Cookie 1 | Face Palm 1


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## Walker253 (Aug 30, 2017)

"Love is the key that opens up the gate to happiness" - mid back

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Addison Chloe (Aug 30, 2017)

And now You're tryingto invade my privacy, why dont you ask, I would I have told you the street I live on, makes no difference, and there's no problem googling me at work hah but thanks troll.


EulersK said:


> I actually Googled her username... yeah, don't do that on a work computer

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## miss moxie (Aug 30, 2017)

@Walker253 Exactly WHAT do I need to clarify? What UNICORN is? What the search results are? Because I'll just say "Chloe Adison is a *insert adjective for aroused that begins with h* school girl" should sum it up fine.

Reactions: Informative 1 | Funny 1


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## Addison Chloe (Aug 30, 2017)

And you sir. I will give you the cake on almost making a gal feel bad, you were the only one that almost got under my skin, but I realized you're in your 50's looks like you love awesome adventurous activities and enjoy life, it makes me sad to know that under that outside persona, you are ugly.  There is no reason to so down to another human being for asking questions, I don't care how dumb, YOU think they are. I don't judge you, and if I had you look like someone I would have trusted but they way you can across was disgusting and inhumane, no wonder you don't hold your tarantula, I'm noticing way deeper humanity issues then the handling of my pokie ornata.


Walker253 said:


> "Love is the key that opens up the gate to happiness" - mid back


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## TownesVanZandt (Aug 30, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> Alright can the magnetism jokes at least end, you all know NOTHING about magnetism obviously and it's one of the building blocks of the universe. And I have used magnetic therapy and other forms, I can make your headache go away in minutes, your vertigo stop, you guys have NO idea. And crystals are whole other ball game, and all 3 of you can know that you may be making the jokes now, but in the end the joke will be on you.


What´s your take on vaccines? That´s about the only topic now lacking in this thread

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 10


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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 30, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> I can make your headache go away in minutes, your vertigo stop, you guys have NO idea.


Oh I believe you, kind Lady 

I'm Italian and here, especially in the Southern part, the use of magic always existed and still is on. I can curse someone with 'gypsy magic' (an elder ROM woman teached me) and _malocchio _(evil eye) if I want but I'm a gentleman and my education is upper class so no

Reactions: Disagree 1 | Funny 3


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## Trenor (Aug 30, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> I am sorry to put such a big idea out on to this particular thread, not the crowd to get to understand for sure. I will tell you, the thing you call gravity is real, of course, but not for the reasons you are taught, you were taught the theory of relativity, which "explains gravity, but that theory was based off disproving August Piccards theory in 1913 that the world was not a sphere and the scientific community freaked out and "developed" the theory of relativity. Look it up, the evidence is overwhelming!! It's force, the combination of electricity and magnetism, this creates light and sound and force, through velocity, that's where relativity theory went off track. And all magnets and electricity have energy that drives the universe in motion in a forwarding spiraling motion. It is logical, you just do not understand yet, it took me a long time to understand and I'm still understanding it, but it becomes clearer everyday. I yakebthe time to understand the world and how it is made up so understand how we are made up and of it. I hope you do more research sir.


Are you really quoting flat earth to me? Really? Holy Crap! The earth is roughly an oblate spheroid. I work with GIS every day and this is easily proven and verified (the math works and I use it to place points on a world map every day). Yet here you are, quoting a dude (August Piccards) who got a look at the earth from a balloon, that was at a max of 10 miles from the earths surface and essentially said... "Hey it looked flat to me with slightly upturned edges" as proof that gravity is fake? Oh... My... God.... I really don't know what to say to this...

Electricity and magnetism are opposite sides of the same force. However, that force can only operate on objects made of certain materials. Gravity affects everything (even light) (regardless of what it's made of) and is based on the size of the object and the object's proximity to other objects.

Why is it when someone is throwing out unproven ideas they lead in with *I'm about to lay this big idea on you*? You readily discount ideas that have much better proof then anything you are offering but seem to think others should buy what you are selling because you believe it is true.



Addison Chloe said:


> As for my T's please read through the whole thread before making assumptions. I would NEVER force a T on to a bass guitar, obvious stress and cruelty, however, I will RE state, that she came out on her own accord, we thought it was a joke at first, to the point we've played flute, drums, trumpet, and regular guitar around her and she gives no cares, but the second my fiance does one strum, she comes out and will make every effort to find where my fiance is and will climb up him while he's sitting, and she'll explore him and then on the bass and then on him again, ultimately for about 10 minute in average though she will find her way to the neck and literally snuggle down, she will make circles back and forth like a cat, it's incredible, and when she's done, she simply crawls back down my fiance and goes back to her tank, she's very independent and we trust with our space to roam when we are home, I really thunkbhes a comfortable spider that just happens to have a like for the the vibrations the bass gives off. That is also not biologically based and 100% true...so again, I hope tgat it is you that expands your mind.


So what your saying is.....
You're T hears your BF strum the bass
Comes out of her enclosure
Makes a trip across the room
Finds your BF
Climbs him
Walks out onto the bass and up the neck
Hangs out for the show
Then walks back and hangs out cuddling his neck?

All without an intervention from either of you at all?

Is that what your saying? 

I don't buy this either.

It would be easy to show some proof with a nice *video of the whole process happening*... especially since she is comfortable in her space that this happens all the time. I rather doubt any such video will show up though.



Addison Chloe said:


> @Trenor  it's what you say to the weeds, start yelling at them, I want to see a garden with no weeds!! I started that way, I've had a bug and weed free garden for years now. And the two plants were just one experiment, there have been countless, look up the affects of how you talk to water Even! I promise your words have a heavier effect than you give them credit for.


Lady, I promise you I've yelled heart felt obscenities at them in the heat of summer with no effect. There is no way I'm believing that you talked your way to a weed/bug free garden. However, if you want to roll down here and voice kill the weeds in my front yard I'll gladly post a correction to that statement. I am certain that I will never be in any danger of having to do that.

Why do people accuse others of not having an "Open/Expanded Mind or In Need of More Research" when their unsubstantiated ideas are not given the same consideration as ones that have a lot of proof? I do have a open mind and I am very inquisitive. I spend a lot of time learning about the world I live in. What I am not is willing to do is believe a bunch of baloney when no proof (other than this is what you believe) is given.



Addison Chloe said:


> And for the record, religion is more than that, it literally means to bind, to constrain, to hold back, religion is whole nother ball game off messed up bases. And to my knowledge I have been sharing my examples and my proof and continue to on a daily basis, the mind is powerful and what you tell it it will believe and will eventually manifest in one way or another I promise you that. I've had 27 years life experience of that


Your energy ideas are no different than any of the other "beliefs" that people have handed down over the years. Your assuming that there needs to be some governing organization or even rules for it to be a religion but it doesn't. One person's solo beliefs can be considered religion.

Also if you bother looking up a definition for religion you'll see it doesn't "literally" mean what you said at all. Making up definitions for words to suit what you want them to be is not valid.

Again: Please take time to understand the animals you are trying to keep. Enjoy them for what they are. Don't make their life more terrifying/stressful/difficult than it has to be by trying to force them to be what you would like for them to be instead of what they are.

Reactions: Like 6 | Love 1 | Award 8 | Lollipop 1 | Winner 1


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## Addison Chloe (Aug 30, 2017)

miss moxie said:


> porn. it has to do with porn.


Haha oh my god, you guys chloe is my middle name, not my last definitely not in porn

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Lollipop 1


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## miss moxie (Aug 30, 2017)

EulersK said:


> To clarify: Chloe Addison is a hardcore UNICORN star.


No! She is a school girl. It says right there on google.

Edit: I saw @EulersK edit out his post so I replaced a certain word with UNICORN for their protection. I should probably go change my posts to say UNICORN too.

Reactions: Funny 3 | Award 1


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## Walker253 (Aug 30, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> And you sir. I will give you the cake on almost making a gal feel bad, you were the only one that almost got under my skin, but I realized you're in your 50's looks like you love awesome adventurous activities and enjoy life, it makes me sad to know that under that outside persona, you are ugly.  There is no reason to so down to another human being for asking questions, I don't care how dumb, YOU think they are. I don't judge you, and if I had you look like someone I would have trusted but they way you can across was disgusting and inhumane, no wonder you don't hold your tarantula, I'm noticing way deeper humanity issues then the handling of my pokie ornata.


Such a great reply, you posted it twice.

I'm glad you know me so well.

Just hold the ornata already



*Edit - Clearly the quote that caused the reaction was recognized.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## PidderPeets (Aug 30, 2017)

Ellenantula said:


> Yeah, um, except for the part where she *won't* leave WellEnough alone.  lol


I was specifically avoiding going there, but... 

I'm still curious about the enclosures here

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Leila (Aug 30, 2017)

EulersK said:


> I actually Googled her username... yeah, don't do that on a work computer


I'm at work....Dare I proceed? 

Edit: Of course I'm late to that party.  A tale as old as time...

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Addison Chloe (Aug 30, 2017)

Also here are pictures of both enclosures, Wellenough's will be upgraded as she just molted 2 days ago and grew 2 inches from it, this was the original container I had for her. Festes is more a web type so I have her set up different, and Wellenough I plan on getting another big vertical enclosure for and I have a big his for her, and she likes the branches that are in there so they will get transferred with her water dish and decorations. I do appreciate the few who have honestly inquired about her enclosure. The picture taken with bare enclosure was because I had to clear it out to get to her molt to safely pull it out, that was all. She's never been a sad bare enclosure, ever.


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## Little Grey Spider (Aug 30, 2017)

I love UNICORNS. And vaccines...

Reactions: Love 1 | Lollipop 1


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## Addison Chloe (Aug 30, 2017)

Inside shot, outside for size and Festes current set up

Reactions: Sad 6


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## Ellenantula (Aug 30, 2017)

I know WellEnough already without googling her too.  I can't afford any more brain cell loss. {You guys be sure to convo me though  Keep me in this gravity defying loop}

Plus, I need to go check out Facebook and get offended there. 

Priorities....

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 4


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## VolkswagenBug (Aug 30, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> Thank you for nice honest response and understand that they are considered to not want to be handled and that they are primitive and instinctual, however, I hi five her, Festes my Antilles Pink Toed plays tag with me, she's groomed her fangs on me so many times I can't count, she plays, she literally gets on the bass when my fiance plays and snuggles on the neck and just enjoys the vibration. I believe these creatures just need to be communicated with differently. I've used sounds and hand displays to get through and was looking to see if there was anyone like me, I guess I will be on my own here. Furthermore I believe that if they are instinctual like everyone says, and everyone has fesr of being bitten, well OF COURSE they're going to be bitten, but what if you could overcome the fear of that bite, I believe that spider can sense the calm just as much as they can sense the fear, the second she touches skin, if it goosebumps and gets rigid dye to instinctual human fear, then the spider feels that, but if it felt warmth and relaxation, I don't see why it would ever feel the need to bite....


I think you may be coming at this from the wrong direction. Also, just to be clear, I'm not on the side of them being instinctual _or _highly intelligent. But you want to have the result of her actually having affection for you, which is probably impossible for a tarantula, so you're trying to approach the problem from that angle. You may actually have a point in that tarantulas do react to humans' emotions in a way when being handled (though they're probably actually reacting _to _the human's external reaction to stimuli if that's the case). This post is about centipede handling, and while centipedes are generally thought to be smarter than tarantulas, this may apply to the latter as well. However, I have only handled a tarantula once, so I cannot say I've observed this behavior myself. 
You do also have to understand that _Avicularia _species are much "nicer" than _Poecilotheria _species. Grooming herself on you is a sign that the avic isn't upset by being handled, but it doesn't necessarily mean she shows actual affection for you. It's a possibility, as tarantula intelligence has not been studied in-depth like the intelligence of bottlenose dolphins, for example, but it's a very small possibility for these almost-but-not-quite-dumb spiders.
Also, can you explain what you mean by "playing tag"?


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## Eva (Aug 30, 2017)

miss moxie said:


> No! She is a school girl. It says right there on google.
> 
> Edit: I saw @EulersK edit out his post so I replaced a certain word with UNICORN for their protection. I should probably go change my posts to say UNICORN too.


That's very obviously not her. You didn't even check the videos, guys.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1 | Funny 2


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## Leila (Aug 30, 2017)

Um, no wonder they always want out of their enclosures

Reactions: Agree 6 | Funny 2


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## VolkswagenBug (Aug 30, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> Well
> 
> I invite you to be updated through this thread and read how I infect do bond with my tarantulas, and your fish example is bull too. I have many fish, and have pet very single one, fish communicate through food and positive reinforcement like most creatures, my fish I would feed and then dangle my finger and brush against it until it got comfortable and after a few times of positive reinforcement, every time I waded my finger a certain way in the water, the fish would come up and brush against me back and forth for as kognas I stroked it back. Life is mich deeper than I believe you understand. Hopefully I can show you all a different side to these awesome spiders


Fish have a membrane on their skin that protects their very sensitive bodies. When you touch them, you are removing that membrane. Please don't do that.
There is definitely a stronger case for fish showing affection, though.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## TownesVanZandt (Aug 30, 2017)

Eva said:


> That's very obviously not her. You didn't even check the videos, guys.


I did, but I was way too embarrassed for admitting to do so  But yes, that is clearly not her. Let´s not accuse her of that, at least!

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Eva (Aug 30, 2017)

TownesVanZandt said:


> I did, but I was way too embarrassed for admitting to do so  But yes, that is clearly not her. Let´s not accuse her of that, at least!


Yes, there's enough to her already, there's no need to add to it.
And there's especially no need to slander her - that's just too low.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## PidderPeets (Aug 30, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> Also here are pictures of both enclosures, Wellenough's will be upgraded as she just molted 2 days ago and grew 2 inches from it, this was the original container I had for her. Festes is more a web type so I have her set up different, and Wellenough I plan on getting another big vertical enclosure for and I have a big his for her, and she likes the branches that are in there so they will get transferred with her water dish and decorations. I do appreciate the few who have honestly inquired about her enclosure. The picture taken with bare enclosure was because I had to clear it out to get to her molt to safely pull it out, that was all. She's never been a sad bare enclosure, ever.





Addison Chloe said:


> Inside shot, outside for size and Festes current set up


I can't comment much on the pokie enclosure because I don't own pokies, so I'll let others offer any advice needed. Hopefully there will be constructive criticism and not just bashing the setup.

But I would like to offer some advice on the C. versicolor enclosure. They're an arboreal species, so a taller setup would be much more suitable for it. If you can't offer a different enclosure, some fake plants would be extremely helpful, as it would offer more anchor points for webbing and some areas to hide. They also prefer dry substrate, especially in an enclosure that only offers top ventilation. I can post a picture of my enclosure in a bit if need be

Reactions: Agree 2 | Helpful 1


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## Addison Chloe (Aug 30, 2017)

Yeah, some forum, first time ever reaching to the internet for insight, all I asked was for insight. I get trolled by people I've never met, and who judge me based off not knowing anything about me. And I get told I suck but not why, and then the enclosure, ppl say, yeah no wonder your spiders blah blah blah, like how is that helpful, why can't people look out for each other and give advise when I guess obviously needed. Bullying someone will only hurt them and their tarantulas. I'm disgusted with 90%of you, and to clear the air, especially since miss people like miss moxie think it's funny to try and point out a porn star, move on, I'm better than that, not anyone but me cares. So yes I am from colorado, yes I smoke weed, and yes whoever asked, I am balanced on vaccines too. I believe that they are motto be trusted but I also don't thinking fair if someone sent their child to school with mumps, and then there was an outbreak, if there is then right situation, take it. And I think its funny how some ppl claim that they are worried about my spiders but them I post pictures and no one has anything??? But that porn star and unicorns really took off. My God people.

Reactions: Dislike 1 | Funny 1 | Love 1


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## TownesVanZandt (Aug 30, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> Inside shot, outside for size and Festes current set up


I don´t have any Pokies, but when you do rehouse it, I would make sure that the new enclosure have some proper cork bark and/or a cork tube for it to feel safe. Those branches that you´ve placed like a _lavvo _doesn´t really work out for an arboreal tarantula.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Addison Chloe (Aug 30, 2017)

@pitt


PidderPeets said:


> I can't comment much on the pokie enclosure because I don't own pokies, so I'll let others offer any advice needed. Hopefully there will be constructive criticism and not just bashing the setup.
> 
> But I would like to offer some advice on the C. versicolor enclosure. They're an arboreal species, so a taller setup would be much more suitable for it. If you can't offer a different enclosure, some fake plants would be extremely helpful, as it would offer more anchor points for webbing and some areas to hide. They also prefer dry substrate, especially in an enclosure that only offers top ventilation. I can post a picture of my enclosure in a bit if need be


@Pitterpeets thank you for your honest and neutral advice.  I know the pokie needs a bigger set up, as for Festes, trees I can do, can I bring in natural ones from my trees outside, and swap them out as they get old? Or should I just buy fake ones, I just don't like the idea of the game ones lol and I do know she would enjoy a vertical enclosure, and I would have swapped the two tarantulas when I got Wellenough but I know that her enclosure wouldn't house Festes for much longer so I will plan on getting a vertical enclosure for her as well, and I do keep the substrate mostly set, thats why I spray her once a day, and she comes out to it, it's cool, anyways yes thank you forbthe sounds advice and I will put it use as soom as funds are available in the near future.


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## Andrea82 (Aug 30, 2017)

@Addison Chloe 
The enclosure for your Avic is...horrible. No leaves, no comfortable place to lounge on, a freakin toiletpaper roll in it. This genus is fairly delicate and has special care requirements. You haven't done one ounce of research into your 'beloved' spiders. If you love them so much, do your homework and redo their enclosures asap. The one for the pokie is far below standards as well. 
Start by CARING for them first, and then come talk about your planets aligning and rainbows coming out of your head.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 5


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## boina (Aug 30, 2017)

Trenor said:


> Are you really quoting flat earth to me? Really? Holy Crap! The earth is roughly an oblate spheroid. I work with GIS every day and this is easily proven and verified (the math works and I use it to place points on a world map every day). Yet here you are, quoting a dude (August Piccards) who got a look at the earth from a balloon, that was at a max of 10 miles from the earths surface and essentially said... "Hey it looked flat to me with slightly upturned edges" as proof that gravity is fake? Oh... My... God.... I really don't know what to say to this...


OMG I missed the flat earth reference! Thank you for pointing that out! 

@Addison Chloe - you do have healing powers, I absolutely believe that. I haven't laughed that much in one day for quite a while and I feel great now!

Reactions: Funny 2


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## KooBea (Aug 30, 2017)

OP ever though of a "Pet Psychic"? Then you would know if Wellenough wanted to be held. A friend of mine took her cat to one and said it helped them live more peacefully together.


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## Little Grey Spider (Aug 30, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> Yeah, some forum, first time ever reaching to the internet for insight, all I asked was for insight. I get trolled by people I've never met, and who judge me based off not knowing anything about me. And I get told I suck but not why


This forum is an excellent tool for newbies to the hobby. Can people be overly harsh? Sure. In fact, I've seen it and have defended people who were being talked down to- even though I haven't agreed with their husbandry. The difference between you and them is that THEY asked, got answers and heeded the advice whereas you have not heard a darn thing experienced keepers have said.
You: "My tarantula loves me, we high five and everything!"
People with decades of experience: "It's actually physically impossible for a tarantula to feel love. You are misinterpreting leg movements and feeding response as 'high fives.'
You: "Na-huh! I know she high fives me! I just KNOW it!"

Your argument has ZERO basis in scientific fact and flies in the face of everything experience has taught us... 

"think it's funny to try and point out a porn star, move on, I'm better than that"

I couldn't give less of a <poop> if you were a porn star- honestly. I don't think people who work in adult entertainment should be shamed for their choice of employment.

You feel <pooped> on. I get it. But you're not even remotely open to the possibility that you are WRONG.

Bottom line, handle your Pokie if you wish. You have been sufficiently educated on the inherent risks in doing so. If you choose to blatantly disregard common sense and experienced keeper's advice, well.... I don't know what to tell you.
FYI, when I said you're either high or mentally ill, that wasn't a joke. You've admitted now you smoke weed. I myself do not partake, but I would implore you not to attempt this ill fated handling experiment while under the influence of drugs or alcohol.

I've written this as respectfully and factually as I could. Let's see if you listen.

Reactions: Like 2 | Love 1 | Award 8


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## Addison Chloe (Aug 30, 2017)

@


Andrea82 said:


> @Addison Chloe
> The enclosure for your Avic is...horrible. No leaves, no comfortable place to lounge on, a freakin toiletpaper roll in it. This genus is fairly delicate and has special care requirements. You haven't done one ounce of research into your 'beloved' spiders. If you love them so much, do your homework and redo their enclosures asap. The one for the pokie is far below standards as well.
> Start by CARING for them first, and then come talk about your planets aligning and rainbows coming out of your head.


@Andrea82 you mixed the two up, the toilet paper roll one is the pokie, the avic. Is in the horizontal one, and her skull is heated and she loves lounging that often, I said I would leaves, sounds like that s all im missing so you don't need to assume your <edit> comment about me not doing one ounce of research into my spiders, I don't need to say it's horse puckey but I will. You need to come across better if you want your point taken.

Reactions: Dislike 2 | Face Palm 1


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## Little Grey Spider (Aug 30, 2017)

The


Addison Chloe said:


> @
> 
> @Andrea82 you mixed the two up, the toilet paper roll one is the pokie, the avic. Is in the horizontal one, and her skull is heated and she loves lounging that often, I said I would leaves, sounds like that s all im missing so you don't need to assume your <edit> comment about me not doing one ounce of research into my spiders, I don't need to say it's horse puckey but I will. You need to come across better if you want your point taken.


The Avic needs a vertical enclosure- not horizontal. I'd also eliminate any heat element (skull). They do not need supplemental heat. Tall enclosure with good ventilation, dry sub, water dish and climbing things. That's all that should be in there.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 4


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## Patherophis (Aug 30, 2017)

@Addison Chloe So You keep _Avicularia_, the most arboreal tarantula of all, in enclosure for terestrial. But yeah, problem is that everyone here is bad on You and You know what You are doing ...

Reactions: Agree 4


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## Haksilence (Aug 30, 2017)

I just read all 13 pages. @advan I'd like a request for this to be locked. Threads like this do nothing but perpetuate idiocy and don't benefit anyone or that hobby at all. 

The OP is clearly trolling, or very very ignorant, whichever the case. She clearly does not care for any information we can provide her and will do whatever she wants regardless. 

There's no reason to allow drama like this to continue. 

@Addison Chloe 
You said you didn't care for science, but you do realize this board is built from and for science. Sorry but you're in the wrong place, if you wanted sheep to mindlessly and uneducated support you then you should probably stick to Facebook.

Reactions: Agree 5 | Disagree 1 | Love 1 | Lollipop 1


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## boina (Aug 30, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> @
> 
> @Andrea82 you mixed the two up, the toilet paper roll one is the pokie, the avic. Is in the horizontal one, and her skull is heated and she loves lounging that often, I said I would leaves, sounds like that s all im missing so you don't need to assume your shitty comment about me not doing one ounce of research into my spiders, I don't need to say it's horse puckey but I will. You need to come across better if you want your point taken.


There is a pretty good chance that your Avic will not survive the treatment you are putting it through - lack of safe retreat (high up), heated skull - omg, that's a death trap if there ever was one. Of course your Avic loves it - it increases it's metabolism and makes it feel more active. It also desiccates it. Heat is a kind of drug for a spider and too much of it in an enclosed space may very well kill it. 

You really have not done much research and Andrea was understandably upset about your lack of understanding of the basic need of those creatures you profess to love.

Reactions: Agree 5


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## Andrea82 (Aug 30, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> @
> 
> @Andrea82 you mixed the two up, the toilet paper roll one is the pokie, the avic. Is in the horizontal one, and her skull is heated and she loves lounging that often, I said I would leaves, sounds like that s all im missing so you don't need to assume your shitty comment about me not doing one ounce of research into my spiders, I don't need to say it's horse puckey but I will. You need to come across better if you want your point taken.


That makes it so much better. 
You're not even close to providing them with the care they need. 
You are 'missing' a lot. Most of it is not even closely related to your spiders.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Thistles (Aug 30, 2017)

No one's gonna say anything about her claim that evolution was disproved? I know it's a tiny drop in a sea of science denial and irrationality, but wow.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 7 | Funny 2 | Love 1


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## Grace Cannell (Aug 30, 2017)

Thistles said:


> No one's gonna say anything about her claim that evolution was disproved? I know it's a tiny drop in a sea of science denial and irrationality, but wow.


There's so much denial-based lunacy on here, and OP is not willing to take anything anyone has said in, other than she is being attacked, it's not worth your breath.

Reactions: Agree 4


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## miss moxie (Aug 30, 2017)

Eva said:


> Yes, there's enough to her already, there's no need to add to it.
> And there's especially no need to slander her - that's just too low.


Nowhere did I say OP was an adult film star. I don't think ANYONE actually said OP was an adult film star. It was pointed out not to google OP's username and when further explored it was revealed that Googling "Addison Chloe" brings up results for an ACTUAL adult film star-- Chloe Addison. 

No one was slandering her, merely amused at the results of a google search.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


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## Eva (Aug 30, 2017)

miss moxie said:


> Nowhere did I say OP was an adult film star. I don't think ANYONE actually said OP was an adult film star. It was pointed out not to google OP's username and when further explored it was revealed that Googling "Addison Chloe" brings up results for an ACTUAL adult film star-- Chloe Addison.
> 
> No one was slandering her, merely amused at the results of a google search.


I misunderstood. Sorry

Reactions: Like 3 | Funny 1 | Love 2


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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 30, 2017)

Eva said:


> Sorry


A sorry with the 'bag' icon after is something amazing. Takes that sentiment to another level 

Not even near the *Goddess** hissing magnanimous and benign voice, but worth of note, worth of note indeed 

* 0.1 _Pelinobius muticus_ PBUH (Peace Be Upon Her)

Reactions: Lollipop 1


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## Addison Chloe (Aug 30, 2017)

Little Grey Spider said:


> This forum is an excellent tool for newbies to the hobby. Can people be overly harsh? Sure. In fact, I've seen it and have defended people who were being talked down to- even though I haven't agreed with their husbandry. The difference between you and them is that THEY asked, got answers and heeded the advice whereas you have not heard a darn thing experienced keepers have said.
> You: "My tarantula loves me, we high five and everything!"
> People with decades of experience: "It's actually physically impossible for a tarantula to feel love. You are misinterpreting leg movements and feeding response as 'high fives.'
> You: "Na-huh! I know she high fives me! I just KNOW it!"
> ...


Alright, @littlegreyspider I need to clear the air now thank you. So first off don't claim to be helpful and like comment that when your first comment here was just ragging on me like the majority. You did not lend a helping hand, just insensitive and judgemental and opinionated for sure! Let's get some facts straight though since you have them distorted.
You said The difference between curious noobs in me is that I "haven't heard a darn thing experienced keepers have said." That is a lie, and then you continued to wrongly quote me, twice! Now you're just making stuff up.
Factually I acknowledged and in fact thanked anyone who reached out in at least a constructively critical way and thanked them and stated I understood the severity of my implication and know the outcome of a bite or a drop or a run. And dare I ask for insight, i instead got initially attacked, laughed at, and told told to do it so everyone else could get a bite report, that's blatant lack for human decency period. I didn't ask for ANY OF that, I didn't ask for people to literally tell me I'm stupid, a dumbass, crazy, unintelligent, irresponsible and a slew of other sad ugly comments. I have NEVER once told anyone here that I thought all the experience they have is stupid or that I didn't believe it or I thought it was wrong. All I did was ask questions, then again, I acknowledged the warnings that weren't warnings but bashful posts telling me TO do it, and all i got was more and then porn star comments yes. And Jesus, I am sorry that you took my comment as porn star shaming, I don't have time or care to open star shame, if you can do it good for you, I can't, that's all, end of story.
Also, to continue with your wrong assumptions,  I do not for the record, feel <pooped> on. Ive been laughing, and in awe of the disgusting fifth reactions I've been receiving all night and day from your so called experts. For the record experienced people and experts do not make people feel like they did, would they talk to that first timer 15yr like that, I bet you not, but maybe, wouldn't put it past them now. But yes they have human decency, and don't make childish, native judgments to strangers, I don't know who these people are and I have taken their input despite their disrespect and judgements.
So bottom line,  I do want to hold my pokie Ornata, will I do it tomorrow? No, it will probably be another year, I was simply asking for insight, I didn't know this out of the water, it was everyone's reactions and if they hadn't been so inhumane and bullyish I probably wouldn't be writing this right now, but here I am because I am not afraid to stand up for myself and FYI, it's stupid of you, in my opinion, to re iterate your screwed up comment about high or mentally ill. Yes I was honest about my pot smoking, for my back at night, that does not affect my daily mental, and shouldn't matter anyways, however, it should never be okay to poke at the mentally ill, that was low and disrespectful of you, no Im not mentally ill either and ideally hope you can take a look in the mirror and really see who has been the crazy one in this, I know it's not smart to handle pokies, but I wanted to honestly ask for insight, last time, this obviously was not the place, no matter


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## Trenor (Aug 30, 2017)

Thistles said:


> No one's gonna say anything about her claim that evolution was disproved? I know it's a tiny drop in a sea of science denial and irrationality, but wow.


I was trying to ignore most of it till I hit the flat earth comment. After that my GIS sense got to tingling and I lost it for a bit. 

@Addison Chloe : I really don't care what you believe is true or false. I will admit the sheer volume of what to buy into that has been disproved or has little to no valid proof stuns me a bit. I really do encourage you to read some valid information on your Ts so you can set their homes up right. I can tell you care for them and it would be good to give them a home suited to their needs and provide care that had a minimal amount of stress for the animal. Good luck to you and your Ts.

Reactions: Like 2 | Love 1


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## Python (Aug 30, 2017)

People have offered you advice... good advice. True, you would have to wade through quite a bit of bashing to find it, but so far you have shown no interest in taking any of the advice offered. Instead, you come here and tell some of the most knowledgable people on the planet that the information they offer you is wrong based on your limited experience of 27 years. The accumalated knowledge of this site is, if I may be so bold, the definitive source of knowledge in the field of tarantulas, scorpions and more. You won't find a better source anywhere else on earth no matter how hard you look. I would venture to say that every book every written, every study ever conducted can be found right here. The people who write the books are right here. You literally cannot find better information anywhere. There is hundreds of years of collective experience right here at your fingertips. The best advice anyone can give you is this...

Don't be so arrogant as to believe you have some new insight that someone here hasn't had before.

I've been on here for more than a decade and I've seen your ideas played out before, more than once. Short version, it never went as intended.

That said, I understand that you might feel slighted and rightfully so. Keep in mind though, a lot of people here feel slighted by you, me included. Several of us have dispensed advice and were pretty much told, in no umcertain terms, that we are wrong. Many of us have kept hundreds or even thousands of tarantulas over the years and I can promise you that the experience we have is not only valid, but also backed up by hard, repeatedly testable facts. Not beliefs, not emotions and not ideas. We have learned over the years what works and what doesn't by hard work, research and most importantly, trial and error. We've all made mistakes that have cost the lives of animals and I'm pretty sure that we all regret making those mistakes. We also want to help others avoid making those mistakes, that includes you.

When I first started keeping T's, I handled them all. I didn't know any better and I paid the price. I lost more than one to drops and I'm sure others have too, which is why we gave the advice to not handle them.

In the end, do what you do, but if you don't want advice that differs from what you want, this is probably the wrong place for that. The advice here is based on facts, not wants. We all want our spiders to love us and love to be held but that simply isn't in their DNA. If you want a spider to hold, try jumpers. They don't mind too much and they are quite curious. In my opinion they are awesome. Give them a shot

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 9 | Love 1 | Optimistic 1 | Award 1 | Winner 1


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## Eva (Aug 30, 2017)

Chris LXXIX said:


> A sorry with the 'bag' icon after is something amazing. Takes that sentiment to another level
> 
> Not even near the *Goddess** hissing magnanimous and benign voice, but worth of note, worth of note indeed
> 
> * 0.1 _Pelinobius muticus_ PBUH (Peace Be Upon Her)


Emoji icons are a divine gift granted to us by the benevolent Goddess 0.1 _P. muticus_ PBUH and it would be a grat disservice to Her to not utilize them to their full potential.
One day, I plan to have properly taken advantage of every single one that is available!
May the Goddess 0.1 _P. muticus_ PBUH give me strenght on my journey!

Reactions: Funny 1 | Helpful 1 | Love 1 | Optimistic 1 | Award 1


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## Grace Cannell (Aug 30, 2017)

Python has put it way better than I could.

What is the point of asking for insight when you aren't willing to take any of it on board? That's like me asking someone whether I should put myself in harm's way, then get warned that I may get hurt and deciding to do it anyway! It makes no sense!!
I have only been on this forum for a few days and I have learnt so much all thanks to the more experienced keepers on here. The difference is, I took the advice I have been given on board, acted on it and left it at that. Claiming you have a "connection" with your tarantulas when there is a great deal of scientific evidence to falsify that notion and then bashing any science that people have included  in their responses isn't going to inspire responses that maintain an unconditional positive vibe. Granted maybe some people haven't responded in the way most would like to be spoken to but when you have made it quite clear that you are sticking to your guns and will be putting yourself and your tarantulas at risk, then I am sorry but I can't see how anyone can respond with any empathy.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 3 | Love 2


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## Storm1028 (Aug 30, 2017)

Wow, took awhile to read all 15 pages of comment. At this point, there's no reason to keep going. OP won't listen to experienced keepers and regardless of what we say, it's just going to enter one ear and out the other. Although some of us are enjoying the nonsense, we are just wasting time and energy. I don't see the point to keep going anymore, now it's just up to her on what she wants to do with her T.

Reactions: Disagree 1 | Funny 1 | Optimistic 2


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## Little Grey Spider (Aug 30, 2017)

Hmmm. You mentioned I was disrespectful in my first comment. I thought to myself "that's out of character for me. Lemme go look." This is LITERALLY copied. My first comment in its entirety.
"No offense at all, but um, are you a tarantula mind reader? There's absolutely no way you could KNOW that she WANTS you to hold her. In fact, logic and experience would tell me that she DOESN'T. Tarantulas do not become bonded with their owner. She doesn't give a care WHO you are so long as she gets fed, watered and given proper housing. I would NEVER attempt to hold an old world tarantula just for the heck of it. I'm really not trying to be mean but you sound extremely inexperienced and that causes me concern for both you AND your animal. Sounds like a stupid question, but given your thread I must ask..... Are you aware of thespeed and potency of a Poecilotheria sp.?"

I expressed concern for both you and your tarantula. I didn't think any of that was disrespectful. But you *are* woefully out of touch. I think I've been fairly polite to you insomuch as this ridiculous circumstance will allow. The mentally ill thing- lady- you don't know me. I wasn't MOCKING mental illness, merely suggesting (given all your comments and rhetoric) that perhaps you are suffering from some sort of mental illness, because let's face it, you don't seem to be playing with a full deck. Not to mention you come back with this laughable tirade and meanwhile you completely ignore legitimate advice, POLITE AND FACTUAL ADVICE, that I offered for your Avicularia. But oh well. Comment back if you must, but really, the more you write the deeper your hole gets. Keep digging dear.

Reactions: Like 3 | Love 3


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## Grace Cannell (Aug 30, 2017)

@Little Grey Spider : You can bring a horse to water but you can't make it drink, or handle it with sure safety and give it a high five

Reactions: Dislike 1 | Funny 7


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## Little Grey Spider (Aug 30, 2017)

Grace Cannell said:


> @Little Grey Spider : You can bring a horse to water but you can't make it drink, or handle it with sure safety and give it a high five


Excellent point.

Reactions: Like 2 | Disagree 1


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## VolkswagenBug (Aug 30, 2017)

I'm glad I missed whatever just happened.

Reactions: Funny 5


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## TyjTheMighty (Aug 30, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> I know it's not smart to handle pokies,


I think this should conclude the argument. You said it yourself; It's not smart to handle pokies, so just don't do it 
Even after all of this madness, I (and I'm sure everyone else) would enjoy having you as a part of this community if you'd just listen to what all these old T keepers have to say

Reactions: Agree 3 | Optimistic 1


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## Addison Chloe (Aug 30, 2017)

Haksilence said:


> I just read all 13 pages. @advan I'd like a request for this to be locked. Threads like this do nothing but perpetuate idiocy and don't benefit anyone or that hobby at all.
> 
> The OP is clearly trolling, or very very ignorant, whichever the case. She clearly does not care for any information we can provide her and will do whatever she wants regardless.
> 
> ...


Who is Advan, let's talk to them, this is America, and you are not contributing to my post, and just


Little Grey Spider said:


> Excellent point.


TyjTheMighty, this will conclude my posts, and I will stay and update as I said I would, I will not pose anymore "ridiculous" threads, I think it's sad that no one can at least see my perspective, every creature has it's own story and life and experiences and their wildness or owners have some control over that, I just think there is more depth to them. I do not discredit or ignore anyone's advice though let me assure you, otherwise I would have tried to handle her already. I do my homework. This was an outreach and an outrage it turned into and I apologize to everyone for that. I do have to voice one last rant bit though to
the two ladies are just snooty together in those last few opinion posts.... you UK chick with the cool red hair, you had nothing but negative input and strict opinion out there multiple times for no reason, maybe you're just an fire stoker, that's fine, let me put both your fires right now, though, and I don't need to make any digging blowing comments about bringing a horse to water, and how I'm digging myself in a hole, and calling you "dear." I don't choose negativity and sarcasm to lead my words, and my image as they are only toxic; Little Grey Spider, you admitted you started wuth asking if i was a mind reader and then went on to assume I haven't listened to anyone, even though I have acknowledged so many, and to seem pretentious in saying that you would never hold an OW spider for no reason, but I never said I would hold it for no reason, and in fact that is biggest reason into my research, is find that reason, and people like you step on people like me but you won't gather all your info first. It's sad, I have tried my best to handle everything awful tgatvhas been thrown at me and still try and learn amd I have but definitely not due to anything from you or anyone's else's negativity. 

Thank you to the people who cared to ask about husbandry and enclosures and I appreciate the input for making immediate habitat improvements and will make them. I am an endless seeker of knowledge, this has been a stepping stone further on my journey. Festes and Wellenough are my good safe hands, and Wellenough will not be handled until I know it is 100% safe for both of us and have cause for us both to go through with it. 
~AddisonChloe

Reactions: Dislike 1 | Optimistic 3 | Lollipop 1 | Face Palm 1


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## Casey K (Aug 30, 2017)

14pokies said:


> Y'all feeding the 's again...


Well said!



Addison Chloe said:


> Hello everyone, this is my first online forum thread thing ever, and I'm reaching because I deeply care for my female pokie Ornata, Wellenough. She's almost two and such a character, great eater and can be very vocal, well throw her legs you know, but still. I want to hold her and she wants me to too, hard to explain,  but yeah I'm just at such a point of respect, it's hard to break the barrier. I only go in her terrarium with my hands, no tongs or anything, and yesterday she came crawling out to the opening I've been trying to get her to go to to handle her and she did and I got scared and couldn't do it. My only explanation is going online has only showed me the bite threat she poses and scared me, yet she's never scared me but the first night I had her, so I'm asking for help and insight!
> Thanks!



First of all, I would like to say thank you.  Thank you for actually taking the effort to bring such an important question (that is often asked by a LOT of folks- regardless of species) to the boards to ask for opinions. I commend you for that and hope that everyone that's curious about this same topic will do the same, for SAKE of the safety of their T.  There are some opinions you will not like, others not so bad.  You may ask what you "should" do but in the long run, you may find yourself doing what you "want" to do.  I've been in the hobby for 11 years and I've never held a poecilotheria.  Never wanted to.  I suppose it's all about consequences and repercussions of your decision.  Weigh the possible outcomes.  Your confidence vs. a sudden onset of fear that may set in.  What's more important?  Your curiosity or the tarantulas life itself?  I'm certain you love your pet as each and every one of us do.  Hopefully, you will find some help in your decision making....

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 1 | Disagree 1


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## vespers (Aug 30, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> Who is Advan, let's talk to them, this is America, and you are not contributing to my post, and just


Advan is a mod. This isn't "America", this is a forum with an international membership and representation.


Addison Chloe said:


> ... you UK chick with the cool red hair


She sure is a pretty one, isn't she?

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2 | Funny 1


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## Addison Chloe (Aug 30, 2017)

vespers said:


> Advan is a mod. This isn't "America", this is a forum with an international membership and representation.
> 
> She sure is a pretty one, isn't she?


Bespers I completely agree, that comment was pointless, I wasn't trying to go anywhere with it and agree this is international. 
And yes, I'm a cosmetologist and always compliment good hair when I see it.


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## PidderPeets (Aug 30, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> @pitt
> 
> @Pitterpeets thank you for your honest and neutral advice.  I know the pokie needs a bigger set up, as for Festes, trees I can do, can I bring in natural ones from my trees outside, and swap them out as they get old? Or should I just buy fake ones, I just don't like the idea of the game ones lol and I do know she would enjoy a vertical enclosure, and I would have swapped the two tarantulas when I got Wellenough but I know that her enclosure wouldn't house Festes for much longer so I will plan on getting a vertical enclosure for her as well, and I do keep the substrate mostly set, thats why I spray her once a day, and she comes out to it, it's cool, anyways yes thank you forbthe sounds advice and I will put it use as soom as funds are available in the near future.





Addison Chloe said:


> @pitt
> 
> @Pitterpeets thank you for your honest and neutral advice.  I know the pokie needs a bigger set up, as for Festes, trees I can do, can I bring in natural ones from my trees outside, and swap them out as they get old? Or should I just buy fake ones, I just don't like the idea of the game ones lol and I do know she would enjoy a vertical enclosure, and I would have swapped the two tarantulas when I got Wellenough but I know that her enclosure wouldn't house Festes for much longer so I will plan on getting a vertical enclosure for her as well, and I do keep the substrate mostly set, thats why I spray her once a day, and she comes out to it, it's cool, anyways yes thank you forbthe sounds advice and I will put it use as soom as funds are available in the near future.


Sticks from your backyard should be okay, as long as they're dry and have never been treated with pesticides. But then I would definitely opt for just keeping the substrate fully dry without the daily misting (I personally wouldn't mist daily anyway) if you use real branches from your yard, because with the low amount of ventilation in that enclosure, it could mold easily. How big is Festes? If it's not too small, you could honestly put it in the old P. ornata enclosure after you rehouse it. That tall enclosure with all that front (and I assume side) ventilation would be great. Also, are those shells for decoration or water bowls? If you don't use any water bowls, getting one in there should be a priority. She could be going to the areas you just misted because she's thirsty. Ideally, she should be in a tall, dry enclosure, with lots of ventilation, lots of tall anchor points, a hide (I use a hollow bamboo tube for my AF A. avicularia), and a water dish. Nice and simple.  There's no need for any additional heat sources  (heat lamps, pads, etc) or misting.

I'm sure I repeated some things that were already said, but there's so many new posts, I'm not about to read though everything while I'm at work

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Helpful 1 | Love 1


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## Walker253 (Aug 30, 2017)

I spoke with Addison on the side. She's actually a really nice person. I apologized for some of my posts where I unnecessarily dog piled for my own entertainment. While I disagreed with a lot of her content in this thread, it doesn't make her a bad person. She wants to be a part of this group and I believe wants to learn a thing or two.
I think it would be awesome to let this thread die for at least 9 or 10 years until some other new guy posts on it and revives it so a then senior board member can mock them for talking on a post where nobody who posted there is on anymore.
Hopefully the dust settles soon and Addison will be a regular contributor to this board

Reactions: Agree 6 | Love 1


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## Little Grey Spider (Aug 30, 2017)

I don't know how me saying I'd never hold an OW tarantula was pretentious... Inigo Montoya comes to mind here for some reason.
THAT BEING SAID! 
I totally missed the post about trying jumping spiders. I've raised Salticids. Many of them. May I suggest one in the genus Phidippus? They have many of the qualities you seem to be looking for. They're beautiful, curious, interactive and easily jump out onto a willing hand. The plus side is they aren't medically significant, aren't prone to biting and even if they DID,  their fangs are so small that the risk of mechanical damage is almost nonexistent. I've handled and raised hundreds and haven't been bitten. The only real downside is they have a very short lifespan in comparison to tarantulas. 
Anyway, take from that what you will. Yell at me again. Whatever. But I ask you.... Can you say no to this face??

Reactions: Like 5 | Love 7


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## VolkswagenBug (Aug 30, 2017)

Little Grey Spider said:


> I don't know how me saying I'd never hold an OW tarantula was pretentious... Inigo Montoya comes to mind here for some reason.
> THAT BEING SAID!
> I totally missed the post about trying jumping spiders. I've raised Salticids. Many of them. May I suggest one in the genus Phidippus? They have many of the qualities you seem to be looking for. They're beautiful, curious, interactive and easily jump out onto a willing hand. The plus side is they aren't medically significant, aren't prone to biting and even if they DID,  their fangs are so small that the risk of mechanical damage is almost nonexistent. I've handled and raised hundreds and haven't been bitten. The only real downside is they have a very short lifespan in comparison to tarantulas.
> Anyway, take from that what you will. Yell at me again. Whatever. But I ask you.... Can you say no to this face??
> ...


Well, they're also really tiny, which is going to be a downside to most people. But they're still the most adorable spiders on the planet.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 4


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## Icculus (Aug 30, 2017)

Wow.  7 replies when I saw this last night.  Catching up on this was like watching this season of game of thrones in one sitting.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 6 | Love 1


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## PidderPeets (Aug 30, 2017)

VolkswagenBug said:


> Well, they're also really tiny, which is going to be a downside to most people. But they're still the most adorable spiders on the planet.


I was gonna argue with you and say that I think crab spiders and huntsman spiders  (especially the babies) are actually the most adorable spiders on the planet, but then I remembered the tiny speck that was the tiniest jumping spider I've ever seen in my life looking up at me the other day, and I realized how quickly I'd lose that argument

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## Aaronsp10 (Aug 30, 2017)

Just wanted to get a post in before it's locked... so glad this isn't my mess this time. Took me like 45 min of reading.. now I'm gonna go snuggle with my ornata

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## AmberDawnDays (Aug 30, 2017)

@Addison Chloe 
I only read through page 7, so my comment might be redundant to others posts, but I can't make myself read all the pages because the conversation is going in circles. 

I just want to point out that if you want to post and be part of this community, please read the rules. Many of your posts I've read have become quite hostile and defensive. You posted several swear words, which is against the rules. I don't care if people swear. I have the worst potty mouth of anyone I know, but I respect the rules and I respect others so I refrain from using swear words here. You really should do the same.

People are very riled up because you asked for advice and yet you are very unwilling to listen. Why ask then? Did you really think you would get any type of encouragement here? Obviously you know it's dangerous because you said you lack the confidence. You say that nobody here is willing to open their minds up to all the foolishness you've posted, but maybe you are the one needing to open your mind up to the possibility that what everyone is saying is in fact correct. Everyone is concerned that you will accidently hurt your T and its also very likely that you may get hurt too. 

I encourage you to listen to everyone's advice and observe and enjoy your T from a safe distance. Many of these people offering advice have been in the hobby for decades and haven't been bitten. There is a lot of knowledge to be gained by interacting with people on AB. Everything I know about Ts was learned right here on AB. People want to help you, but you have to be willing to take the advice, especially if you are asking. 

Just think for a moment. You didn't even know if your T was male or female and the setup is way off. What makes you think that what you think you know is accurate at all when all signs point to you don't actually have a clue?

I'm not trying to be mean so I hope you don't misinterpret this post. Please be careful and as many others have asked, if you get bitten, post a bite report. Good luck.

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## Venom1080 (Aug 30, 2017)

Walker253 said:


> I spoke with Addison on the side. She's actually a really nice person. I apologized for some of my posts where I unnecessarily dog piled for my own entertainment. While I disagreed with a lot of her content in this thread, it doesn't make her a bad person. She wants to be a part of this group and I believe wants to learn a thing or two.
> I think it would be awesome to let this thread die for at least 9 or 10 years until some other new guy posts on it and revives it so a then senior board member can mock them for talking on a post where nobody who posted there is on anymore.
> Hopefully the dust settles soon and Addison will be a regular contributor to this board


That's the way to do it, man. Sooo much better than having a dozen members hating your guts.

As for the whole magnet thing and whatnot. I couldn't (Trenor  ) care less. I'm here for spiders and their husbandry. Not to debate life's mysteries.

@Ellenantula  I'm full, no more cookies please.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 4 | Lollipop 1 | Cookie 3


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## MetalMan2004 (Aug 30, 2017)

I want to see a youtube video of these things SOOOOO bad!  Please please please post videos of the high five, rocking out and other things your Ts do.


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## Trenor (Aug 30, 2017)

Venom1080 said:


> That's the way to do it, man. Sooo much better than having a dozen members hating your guts.
> 
> As for the whole magnet thing and whatnot. I couldn't (Trenor  ) care less. I'm here for spiders and their husbandry. Not to debate life's mysteries.


It's just as well. I wasn't writing it for you.

Reactions: Like 2 | Optimistic 1


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## Venom1080 (Aug 30, 2017)

Trenor said:


> It's just as well. I wasn't writing it for you.


Ah, I meant you called me out last time I said that. Pointed out couldn't care less is proper rather could care less. Guess you took it a different way..

When I say I don't care bout the magnet thing, I really mean it.


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## Trenor (Aug 30, 2017)

Venom1080 said:


> Ah, I meant you called me out last time I said that. Pointed out couldn't care less is proper rather could care less. Guess you took it a different way..
> 
> When I say I don't care bout the magnet thing, I really mean it.


Ahh. I missed that.

Reactions: Like 1


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## bryverine (Aug 31, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> Your dry lead up to your rude insensitive buy a kitten or puppy line, almost had me going, I thought maybe you were a genuine person, but no just science troll. Science be damned!! There are so many things wrong with science don't even get me started, like gravity, <edit> ain't real, real rip off based off a truth yes, but magnetism is that truth. The world is put together in a harmonious flow of energy, every living thing and non living has energy. Spiders put thought in hunting methods to get creative to sneak up on prey, that's all thr capability needed. There is more than you think there is, science degree or not, you lack energy knowledge which I have, and I can tell you the energy all of my animals share with me is on a wavelength and it shifts and moves but is always there. I have rescued a parrot that was highly abused,  told could never be held yards yards, now he talks, he knows sentences, he let's me my fiance and my step son hold him, he laughs with us, he loves oink Floyd music in particular,  he has his own likes, just like Festes my other tarantula and the bass, she didn't react or care for anything,  but hmwhat bass guitar got her moving, she was drawn to it's energy and I posted pics of her on the bass, we didn't put her there, she crawled up my fiance and out herself there while he was playing,  almost every time he plays now, she'll come out. I believe that Wellenough has picked up on my energy to know my intentions and feel my lack of fear, good thing I didn't let these guys get to me or i would have reconsidered haha however, and the point would be to break barriers, I would do it outside, in a fenced area, and lay down let her get off me, feed her some big bug, just ideas so far, but one will manifest.


As a dead serious question (I'm not making fun or trying to demean anyone I swear): how can you quantify this energy? Is there a frequency spectrum to this energy you have generated? We [human scientists, not I] can measure gamma rays to radio waves in pretty precise fashions... i even read about  "auras" but nobody wants to cite any evidence and everybody uses big words...

Reminds me of one of my favorite shirts actually:

Sometimes I use big words I don't understand so I can sound more photosynthesis.​


mistertim said:


> Honest question...if you've really seen "1000s" of rehousing threads and video guides, why is your P. ornata still in such an inadequate enclosure?


Cause they all came from YouTube and Facebook...

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 3 | Love 2


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## Blue Jaye (Aug 31, 2017)

cold blood said:


> female ornata
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is that my boy? Has he still not matured yet?


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## cold blood (Aug 31, 2017)

Blue Jaye said:


> Is that my boy? Has he still not matured yet?


yes...and no....took another big roach the other night.

Reactions: Love 1


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## bryverine (Aug 31, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> Alright can the magnetism jokes at least end, you all know NOTHING about magnetism obviously and it's one of the building blocks of the universe. And I have used magnetic therapy and other forms, I can make your headache go away in minutes, your vertigo stop, you guys have NO idea. And crystals are whole other ball game, and all 3 of you can know that you may be making the jokes now, but in the end the joke will be on you.


I actually have a pretty good background in electrodynamics... this stuff is just silly...

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Tim Benzedrine (Aug 31, 2017)

Walker253 said:


> I think it would be awesome to let this thread die for at least 9 or 10 years until some other new guy posts on it and revives it so a then senior board member can mock them for talking on a post where nobody who posted there is on anymore.


<Taking a glance at my join date>

Um, I wouldn't necessarily count on nobody posting here not being around in that amount of time.  I'll also say that in my span of time, this is the strangest thread I can remember reading. That isn't to say there hasn't been a stranger thread, I've just never seen it if there is. Now, I gotta go read where I left off earlier. Why, I'm not sure.

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## EulersK (Aug 31, 2017)

Tim Benzedrine said:


> Now, I gotta go read where I left off earlier. Why, I'm not s


Right?! I can't stop reading.

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## Walker253 (Aug 31, 2017)

Tim Benzedrine said:


> <Taking a glance at my join date>
> 
> Um, I wouldn't necessarily count on nobody posting here not being around in that amount of time.  I'll also say that in my span of time, this is the strangest thread I can remember reading. That isn't to say there hasn't been a stranger thread, I've just never seen it if there is. Now, I gotta go read where I left off earlier. Why, I'm not sure.


Um, that was a joke in an attempt to lighten the mood.


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## Tim Benzedrine (Aug 31, 2017)

As was my reply, though I don't think the mood could stand anymore lightening. I'm practically rolling on the floor already...

Now...I'd like to see some of the research that has been done on some of the claims being made. I'll bet you every one would be from some "pseudo-science" source and not concrete science ones. People that hold these misconceptions seek (and suffer from) confirmation bias. I think wikipedia can explain that better than i can in my own words, so it is _the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms one's preexisting beliefs or hypotheses.[1] It is a type of cognitive bias and a systematic error of inductive reasoning. People display this bias when they gather or remember information selectively, or when they interpret it in a biased way. The effect is stronger for emotionally charged issues and for deeply entrenched beliefs._

You want to believe in "breatharians", for example? Then you go to their websites and to related hoo-doo websites that support their claims. If you go to a site that scientifically disputes those claims, you are not gonna have your beliefs confirmed.
I also believe that some people like to hold onto their beliefs doggedly because it makes them fell enlightened and a step above the knuckle-dragging Neanderthals that are unable to see the REAL truths. I've encountered those types before. I'm not including the OP in that group necessarily, but she is showing some of the signs. Her comments on some of the basic, well-established sciences is telling. Einstein a "quack" (Or whatever term she used)? It could very well be proven that he was off the mark in some areas, but the man certainly was not a quack (or whatever).

Now, in regard to being able to stop a headache in three minutes, I may take her up on that on after wading through all this. I'm kidding on that one, this has been the most jaw-dropping thread I've read her since...well, since never. It is one of a kind. I kind of think locking it would be some sort of sin. If it is a troll, I'm fine with that, even. Legit or a trolling, I'm not buying into any of it, it's simply recreational for me.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 2 | Funny 1 | Award 1


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## Staehilomyces (Aug 31, 2017)

Okay, seriously. We're close minded? No. It's just that you haven't given once piece of testifiable evidence to support your case. And I'm sorry to hear you're offended by what we're saying. However, in a debate, that won't do it. As put by Ricky Gervais: "Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right." So let's move on from playing the victim card, shall we?

Now, it is a known thing in the myriapods forum, where I spend most of my time on AB, that centipedes can get used to handling. And when I say it, I mean it. If the right procedures and necessary precautions are abided by, they will become docile to the extent that you can handle them just like any pet snake. But it wasn't always that way. The idea that centipedes could be "tamed" seemed an otherwordly proposal, certainly an extraordinary claim that required extraordinary evidence. So naturally, if the people on here are as close-minded as you say they are, they would never have changed their minds, would they? Well, they did. And do you know why? It was because when my claims were challenged, I did not play the victim card, but provided all the evidence I could find, including scientific papers suggesting intelligence in centipedes, and my own video footage of what I was saying can be done. Guess what? They were convinced. And that was because I had my evidence, and the entire "taming" process is something that makes sense given the nervous and other features of the animal. I had no need to resort to the pseudoscientific dogma that is abstract energy and forces operating between man, beast and plant. The experienced keepers on this forum are not close-minded; they merely have the rational approach of requiring evidence to support claims, especially one so extraordinary as the one you have put forward.

I would also love to address your statements about evolution and a flat earth, but for now, let's see what you have to say. Don't act like a victim. If you can't take a little bit of harsh criticism, then it is your fault. If there is any victim in this affair, it is your tarantulas.

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## JDS123 (Aug 31, 2017)

Walker253 said:


> I spoke with Addison on the side. She's actually a really nice person. I apologized for some of my posts where I unnecessarily dog piled for my own entertainment. While I disagreed with a lot of her content in this thread, it doesn't make her a bad person. She wants to be a part of this group and I believe wants to learn a thing or two.
> I think it would be awesome to let this thread die for at least 9 or 10 years until some other new guy posts on it and revives it so a then senior board member can mock them for talking on a post where nobody who posted there is on anymore.
> Hopefully the dust settles soon and Addison will be a regular contributor to this board


your fighting human nature bro lol. they love train wrecks lol

The one thing I want to stress, is some of the problem is your fighting a science vs science+spiritual vs spiritual or close to nature type conflict here that will never come together like a jigsaw puzzle. Aint gonna happen. Plenty of science only based ppl go spiritual and the other way around. Then its fine to go half and half. You are who you are. You gotta respect others. You can keep trying to convert ppl one way or the other, its a mine field, sometimes you gotta just be happy you didnt explode, and get the hell out.

She is obviously on the more "spiritual earthy zen" type who you want to see some of the scientifically proven things like what Ts lack in the brain department as far as snuggle me elmo cells.  She may realize eventually she needs to me more open to some of the science, that its not a bad thing. However she doesn't have to lose her spiritual side. SHe cant fight you guys with facts because that spiritual zen whatever thing is based on feeling, unexplained things like crazy ass dejavu and such. Just because something isnt backed by facts doesnt mean its wrong.

I disagree too with things shes doing. Shes heard it all by now. Everyone's plated seeds lol. Maybe some will grow. 

We may all die and get to a final resting place and Ts will be playing bass guitars and delivering pizzas, saying dang man why dint you snuggle us more! 

Anyways just careful in the land mines, get out before you lose all your limbs.

Be nice to each other.

Peace


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## Ant (Aug 31, 2017)

I honest to god have no idea what's happening here. Pages 1-3 I was like, "this is either a troll or a fruit loop". Skipped to the final page and I honestly have no clue what's gone on, did the OP make it to the ER in time though?

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## Andrea82 (Aug 31, 2017)

JDS123 said:


> The one thing I want to stress, is some of the problem is your fighting a science vs science+spiritual vs spiritual or close to nature type conflict here that will never come together like a jigsaw puzzle. Aint gonna happen. Plenty of science only based ppl go spiritual and the other way around. Then its fine to go half and half. You are who you are. You gotta respect others. You can keep trying to convert ppl one way or the other, its a mine field, sometimes you gotta just be happy you didnt explode, and get the hell out.
> 
> She is obviously on the more "spiritual earthy zen" type who you want to see some of the scientifically proven things like what Ts lack in the brain department as far as snuggle me elmo cells.  She may realize eventually she needs to me more open to some of the science, that its not a bad thing. However she doesn't have to lose her spiritual side. SHe cant fight you guys with facts because that spiritual zen whatever thing is based on feeling, unexplained things like crazy ass dejavu and such. Just because something isnt backed by facts doesnt mean its wrong.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't mind her zen-side so much if she didn't apply it to her spiders. I'm fine with her thinking the earth is flat and Einstein is a quack, she's got every right to think that as long as she doesn't hurt anything or anyone. 

@Addison Chloe I was happy to read you'll get the enclosures in good shape. 
Below link contains everything you need to know about Avicularia/Caribena/Ybyrapora husbandry. 
http://arachnoboards.com/threads/avicularia-husbandry.282549/#post-2461396

For Poecilotheria enclosures, just enter it in the search function on this forum and you'll get lots of examples. 
They will be so much happier if you change their environment. Also, I would stop leaving the enclosures open; arboreals can still take a deadly fall if they jump. They jump because in the wild, there's always another leaf or branch to catch them mid-fall. Which obviously isn't available in our houses. 

I realize I could have given this response sooner, instead of freaking out, but I was just feeling so cornered by everything you were saying. Everything you're saying on Theraphosids care is just so very off I couldn't cope. To me, the care you say they need is like keeping a dog on a gymnastics bar and call it good because the dog is appearing to be wagging its tail. That's just not how it works. 

I like the suggestion of @Staehilomyces , try to be scientific about it. Delve into research, get to know their anatomy and possibilities. Maybe you'll find something out. 
But please stop what you are doing right now. You're freaking your spiders out everytime you disturb them.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Little Grey Spider (Aug 31, 2017)

JDS123 said:


> are you losin it here kitty kat lol


Yeah... ::bows head::


JDS123 said:


> The one thing I want to stress, is some of the problem is your fighting a science vs science+spiritual vs spiritual or close to nature type conflict here that will never come together like a jigsaw puzzle. Aint gonna happen. Plenty of science only based ppl go spiritual and the other way around. Then its fine to go half and half. You are who you are. You gotta respect others. You can keep trying to convert ppl one way or the other, its a mine field, sometimes you gotta just be happy you didnt explode, and get the hell out.
> 
> She is obviously on the more "spiritual earthy zen" type who you want to see some of the scientifically proven things like what Ts lack in the brain department as far as snuggle me elmo cells.  She may realize eventually she needs to me more open to some of the science, that its not a bad thing. However she doesn't have to lose her spiritual side. SHe cant fight you guys with facts because that spiritual zen whatever thing is based on feeling, unexplained things like crazy ass dejavu and such. Just because something isnt backed by facts doesnt mean its wrong.
> 
> ...


I like bass guitar. It's my favorite instrument... maybe I was a T in a former life!!!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Python (Aug 31, 2017)

I don't know if anyone has noticed this or not but the OP seems to have stepped out. I'm not sure if it's due to the repetitive nature of this thread, maybe she's taking some time to reflect on the sudden flood of information, maybe she got tired of feeling attacked or maybe something else. Whatever the case, she seems to have left folks to their own devices. I think I'd wait to see what has transpired on her end before posting more advice/ideas/opinions. Maybe there has been a positive outcome to all of this, maybe not, but the OP has been conspicuously absent now for a couple pages. I'd like to see her response before dragging this out and muddying the waters further.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Staehilomyces (Aug 31, 2017)

One thing I noticed about her is that she only seemed to respond to the short, somewhat insulting comments. She rarely, if at all, seriously addressed the long, factual paragraphs posted by several members. I was especially looking forward to her response for the refutations of her flat-earth claims.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## vespers (Aug 31, 2017)

Python said:


> I don't know if anyone has noticed this or not but the OP seems to have stepped out. I'm not sure if it's due to the repetitive nature of this thread, maybe she's taking some time to reflect on the sudden flood of information, maybe she got tired of feeling attacked or maybe something else. Whatever the case, she seems to have left folks to their own devices. I think I'd wait to see what has transpired on her end before posting more advice/ideas/opinions. Maybe there has been a positive outcome to all of this, maybe not, but the OP has been conspicuously absent now for a couple pages. I'd like to see her response before dragging this out and muddying the waters further.


She hasn't even been gone for 12 hours yet. Perhaps she's just been sleeping or working, doing things in IRL...

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Grace Cannell (Aug 31, 2017)

Addison Chloe said:


> the two ladies are just snooty together in those last few opinion posts.... you UK chick with the cool red hair, you had nothing but negative input and strict opinion out there multiple times for no reason, maybe you're just an fire stoker, that's fine, let me put both your fires right now, though, and I don't need to make any digging blowing comments about bringing a horse to water, and how I'm digging myself in a hole, and calling you "dear." ~AddisonChloe


This is the last time I will respond as this is getting on a bit and I would be truly stoking the fire if I carry on responding after this. What you saw as negative input was in fact my contributing to answer your question. Therefore my "negativity" wasn't entirely without reason. It just so happened to not be the answer you were after. Any negativity on my part was inspired by genuine concern for the welfare of your pokie and your well being. I admit the horse to water comment was a slight made in jest but again it was inspired by your unwillingness to actually act on the advice given. I have not made any attempt to attack you as a person, you appear to be a very deep thinker and no one can question you love your T's, but use that love to do what is best for your pokie, which is leave it be and enjoy your OW tarantula from a safe distance.



Addison Chloe said:


> So bottom line,  I do want to hold my pokie Ornata, will I do it tomorrow? No, it will probably be another year, I was simply asking for insight


^ I am quoting this to supply a reference to back up what I am saying, I have to do it for my uni course so why not here? You have got the insight from others, you do not have to like it but it is what it is.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## Ant (Aug 31, 2017)

Grace Cannell said:


> I admit the horse to water comment was a slight made in jest but again it was inspired by your unwillingness to actually act on the advice given.


The horse to water comment was freakin' funny though . . .

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Thistles (Aug 31, 2017)

Tim Benzedrine said:


> <Taking a glance at my join date>
> 
> Um, I wouldn't necessarily count on nobody posting here not being around in that amount of time.  I'll also say that in my span of time, this is the strangest thread I can remember reading. That isn't to say there hasn't been a stranger thread, I've just never seen it if there is. Now, I gotta go read where I left off earlier. Why, I'm not sure.


Really? I can think of a similar one on another forum I could probably dig up and show you if you're bored. This is really tops?

Why do people think "open minded" means believing random bullcrap? All it means is being persuadable in the presence of evidence. Honestly, OP is the opposite of open minded.

Reactions: Agree 5 | Funny 1


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## VolkswagenBug (Aug 31, 2017)

vespers said:


> She hasn't even been gone for 12 hours yet. Perhaps she's just been sleeping or working, doing things in IRL...


Eh, she seemed pretty angry on the last post she made, so I'd bet she's not coming back, which is pretty reasonable. If I made a thread like this and I was treated the way this thread has treated her, I'd quit for sure. Of course, I'm not saying she's right, it's just not a very welcoming environment.


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## WoofSpider (Aug 31, 2017)

Well, I know that I for sure have been convinced. I will now be "opening my mind" by leaving all of my enclosures open all of the time so my spiders can socialize with each other and come out to play when they want to. I guess I should also learn to play bass guitar, since it appears that Ts LOVE instruments that create excessive vibrations. It mean, why wouldn't they like something that completely overwhelms their primary sense.

Also evolution isn't real, the earth is flat, and magnets can heal. Wow, my mind is so open.

/s

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Love 1


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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 31, 2017)

Thistles said:


> Why do people think "open minded" means believing random bullcrap?


Muahahah, you are always priceless


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## Python (Aug 31, 2017)

I'm not sure if the OP will come back to chime in but I would be interested to find out what the final decision will be. As to the open mindedness, I don't discount any possibility as long as the preponderance of evidence supports it. I do like to have legitimate references to go with it. I'm not a fan of colorful websites that make outlandish claims supported by fringe groups or some discredited author with no professional background aside from writing books. I prefer something in the peer reviewed realm. If there's anything to be learned from game shows it's that the when the majority of the audience picks the same answer, it's almost always the correct one.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Thistles (Aug 31, 2017)

VolkswagenBug said:


> Please do. :wideyed:


It's not as long and it's on another forum. I can PM it to you. Not nearly as wacky, but the same kind of idea. I'd imagine that in as long as Tim has been here there has been more nutty stuff to pop up on this big forum than on the other little backwater.

Reactions: Like 1


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## ThisMeansWAR (Aug 31, 2017)

I literally just made popcorn before sitting down to read this thread. This should be good... 344 replies in a day? Hot damn!

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 3 | Love 4


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## Walker253 (Aug 31, 2017)

I suggested to her that striving to have the last say in a discussion where things are deteriorating is rather unhealthy..I suggested to click the unfollow this thread link. I think she's done with this topic, although it's the greatest thread this board has ever seen.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Funny 4 | Love 1 | Face Palm 1


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## vespers (Aug 31, 2017)

Walker253 said:


> I suggested to her that striving to have the last say in a discussion where things are deteriorating is rather unhealthy..I suggested to click the unfollow this thread link. I think she's done with this topic, although it's the greatest thread this board has ever seen.


You've taken on the role of her Arachnoboards father-figure.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Funny 4


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## Andrea82 (Aug 31, 2017)

Walker253 said:


> I suggested to her that striving to have the last say in a discussion where things are deteriorating is rather unhealthy..I suggested to click the unfollow this thread link. I think she's done with this topic, although it's the greatest thread this board has ever seen.


Wish you would've said this sooner. I actually made an effort to reach out. Which is pointless now she'll not be reading it.

Reactions: Like 1 | Love 1


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## Venom1080 (Aug 31, 2017)

There's been plenty worse. They were just deleted.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## miss moxie (Aug 31, 2017)

WoofSpider said:


> Well, I know that I for sure have been convinced. I will now be "opening my mind" by leaving all of my enclosures open all of the time so my spiders can socialize with each other


It's so weird that in *every* instance of a tarantula escaping their cage, they didn't search out other tarantulas to high-five...

Reactions: Funny 2


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## cold blood (Aug 31, 2017)

miss moxie said:


> It's so weird that in *every* instance of a tarantula escaping their cage, they didn't search out other tarantulas to high-five...


or....if you lose your t, you can just play pink floyd on your bass guitar and call the lost t back.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 8 | Optimistic 1


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## miss moxie (Aug 31, 2017)

Just so everyone knows, and @Andrea82, your effort was not wasted. OP is still reading this thread because she PM'd me to insult me in the comfort of my own inbox.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 10


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## boina (Aug 31, 2017)

miss moxie said:


> Just so everyone knows, and @Andrea82, your effort was not wasted. OP is still reading this thread because she PM'd me to insult me in the comfort of my own inbox.


Did she call you chubby?

Reactions: Funny 4 | Lollipop 1 | Cake 2


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## miss moxie (Aug 31, 2017)

boina said:


> Did she call you chubby?


This time? No. Toxic, sarcastic, and disgusting but not fat. Finally an insult with some actual merit to it!

Reactions: Informative 1 | Funny 2 | Love 4 | Useful 1 | Creative 1


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## Walker253 (Aug 31, 2017)

Andrea82 said:


> Wish you would've said this sooner. I actually made an effort to reach out. Which is pointless now she'll not be reading it.


Haha, damn time zones. I was sleeping. Something tells me, she'll read the thread again.

Also, just because I made peace doesn't mean I up and agree with her. I defend my position, just in a nicer way. There's plenty of times in real life I'm called in to diffuse a situation. When I recognize everything going down the proverbial toilet, sometimes I try to salvage it and clean up the mess a little.

@Aaronsp10 hahahaha, you gave me a "face palm"! I love it! Put that supporter status to good use. Makes me want to plunk down the cash. There would be face palms all over the place. Clearly my favorite emoji.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3 | Funny 1 | Love 1


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## Trenor (Aug 31, 2017)

Now that people are not really trying to fix anything or help anyone I'm going to stop following this thread as well. Sitting about ragging on someone just to be doing it isn't my thing.

Later.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Andrea82 (Aug 31, 2017)

@Walker253 did the same here, maybe it actually works sometimes. Got a message as well.
@miss moxie I actually got a fairly nice message which I replied in kind. As long as she sorts out the care and enclosures, I don't care what she believes in. 

I don't know why mods don't put a lock on this, especially since they seem to moderate the language.

Maybe it's best for everybody to just stand down now. There are a zillion other people who may need everyone's input. I'm checking out of this, everybody have a nice evening

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Award 2 | Winner 1


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## Tim Benzedrine (Aug 31, 2017)

miss moxie said:


> Just so everyone knows, and @Andrea82, your effort was not wasted. OP is still reading this thread because she PM'd me to insult me in the comfort of my own inbox.



Hmm. I could have loaded her with a lot of useful links. None related to her spider, but ones that teach a person what "critical thinking" is. Like the Skeptic's dictionary. I don't generally cling to pile-ons very long, , but when somebody starts questioning established science that is as close to irrefutable as one can get, I get a little salty.. Science is solid but flexible. But only when repeatable results call for flexibility. There are probably thousands of junk-science web-sites out there and as many books spreading misinformation. When misinformation is proved to be actually correct information, science acknowledges that The opposotion, the woo-hoo demographic, will not do that, they play the "open-minded" card, and the "I'm enlightened, you are not, card and just hand-wave" reason aside.

Let's look at those "breatharians" I referenced earlier. For those not famuiliar with those kooks, they are ones that claim they can (and have) survived without eating food.. Some claim that they absorb their energy from the sun. I hve yet to see one  that has not been shown to have cheated. Probably because the ones that tried it and did NOT cheat are dead.

Now, of course in the past, there were discoveries that were met with disbelief and some of the people who advanced those ideas were considered heretics to the church and so in. But we have much better tools for sifting out the wheat from the chafe today and anybody who discounts gravity or the fact that the earth is a sphere pretty deserves what they get, I'm not generous enough to humour them. Nor do I feel sorry for them if it is a case of just being air-headed and not mental-illness.

Maybe this thread should be moved to The Watering Hole since it has become not so much about spiders, but locking it for trying to fight ignorance will not win any battles in said fight. We've had blow-ups over handling tarantulas before, but this was a whole new breed. Attempts were made in making the OP see the pratfulls of both her reasoning and the impact such irresponsible attitudes can have on everybody else, but it fell on death ears. I don't personally care if she gets bit trying to play Spider-Godess, but if it fuels the anti-exotic crowd with ammo, Im ginna speak up on it. And I will always speak out against woo-hoo science. And I'm not even an academic, we have some of those and they were pretty much discounted.

Now, if you will excuse me, my pet clam is lonely and wants to play. It gets depressed when it doesn't get attention, and it...well, it clams up.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 3 | Lollipop 1


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## boina (Aug 31, 2017)

Tim Benzedrine said:


> Hmm. I could have loaded her with a lot of useful links. None related to her spider, but ones that teach a person what "critical thinking" is. Like the Skeptic's dictionary.


But it doesn't work and you know it. If a person has closed oneself off to science I've yet to figure out how to open that door again. Science is about logic and evidence - the evidence that can be tested and proved/disproved - and the moment you deny logic and just go by what you feel science has lost. There's absolutely no way to make people who live by 'I feel it's right, therefore it is right' even consider scientific evidence. Ironically, their mind is closed to actual evidence. It's actually the scientists, the ones who get yelled at for being 'closed minded', that are the open minded ones (mostly, at least), because they will demand data from different sources, compare data, and only will draw conclusions when convinced that the data stand up to scrutiny. Enlightened people usually don't even have data, just feelings, and you can't debate feelings.

I know I can hold my own in any kind of logical, factual debate but I give up the moment feelings and beliefs enter the picture.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 3


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## Tim Benzedrine (Aug 31, 2017)

Yeah, I know. But you can't say I don't try.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Python (Aug 31, 2017)

I feel like science has something to teach us and I believe I'll stick with it till something better comes along

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## Tim Benzedrine (Aug 31, 2017)

Yeah but consider this...

_It's so hard to believe in anything anymore, you know what I mean? It's like, religion, you really can't take it seriously, 'cause it seems so mythological, and seems so arbitrary; and then on the other hand, science is just pure empiricism, and by virtue of its method, it excludes metaphysics. – I guess I wouldn't believe in anything if it weren't for my lucky astrology mood watch._- Steve Martin

Why sad, boina? I think the quote fits this thread pretty well. Now THAT'S sad.

Reactions: Funny 2 | Sad 1


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## boina (Aug 31, 2017)

Tim Benzedrine said:


> Why sad, boina? I think the quote fits this thread pretty well. Now THAT'S sad.


Exactly.


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## Abbio (Aug 31, 2017)

Eva said:


> Never even occurred to me to look it up, but it seems you're right!
> http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/leave+well+enough+alone
> I have to give it to OP, that is a neat name!


But shes not leaving it alone?!?!

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Tim Benzedrine (Aug 31, 2017)

But...but...you were given advice. You still seemed pretty insistent on ignoring it. You were advised NOT to play with your pokie, and given several VERY good reasons not to do so. You were given insight, YOU advanced reasons why that you thought it was a good idea even after acknowledging that you would be putting yourself at risk, and then began using junk-science as back-up. Given that, I 'm not so sure you were looking for insight as much you were looking for affirmation That's when you really crawled to the bottom of the pile on, as far as I could see. You decided to go on rather rambling tangents using junk-science and such as you platform.

Do you have any idea how many woo-hoo theories have been discredited over time? Here is an example- "Pyramid energy". There was a time  that some people thought that pyramids, matching the dimensions of the Egyptian pyramids -but scaled down, of course - could perform some extraordinary fears. Preventing food from rotting, keeping razor blades from sharpening, silly stuff like that. It was kind of a fad in the 70's even. Some intrpreneurs even marketed hats one could wear to channel the miraculous pyramid energy.
Thing is, it really didn't take much science to debunk that. Set up a pyramid over food-stuffs and other items according to the claims and set up control items without the pyramids. As it turned out, there was no discernible difference. That's science working the way it is supposed to. In order to ascertain fact, you need to prove the theory, and with repeatable results. Otherwise, the theory is just junk. if you have never heard of "Pyramid energy" there is good reason. I suppose there could still probably be supporters of it around, but I think they would be a fringe. 

Hey, I get it. The mysterious can be fun to contemplate. But you can't let enthusiasm  compromise reason and logic.

I can't believe I am gonna say this, but I wish Poec54 were here to have seen the start of this. Trust me, he has probably owned more Pokies than you will see in a lifetime. If his ever exhibited the type of behaviour you claim yours does, I'd like to hear about it. And this may not be what you want to hear, but there is nothing SPECIAL about your particular Pokie. it is just like the rest of them out there, both in the wild and in captivity. So if a propensity to interact with humans as you describe WAS a thing, I'm pretty sure we'd have heard about it before you happened along.
This is me trying to be reasonable. I still haven't completely ruled out trolling, but I don't hate it as much as a lot of people do (depending on the nature of it) so can be a little more patient. Of course, that patience only goes so far before I get ornery, something I can be kind of good at...  Ask anybody.

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 1


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## NeptuneBlitZ (Aug 31, 2017)

Yeah and im sure a fish jumping out of water is really only wanting to be held.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2


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## cold blood (Aug 31, 2017)

NeptuneBlitZ said:


> Yeah and im sure a fish jumping out of water is really only wanting to be held.


Ahhh, fish love being held.

See, its _clearly_ smiling
	

		
			
		

		
	




I rest my case.

Reactions: Like 5 | Funny 7


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## Venom1080 (Aug 31, 2017)

Tim Benzedrine said:


> .
> I can't believe I am gonna say this, but I wish Poec54 were here to have seen the start of this. Trust me, he has probably owned more Pokies than you will see in a lifetime. If his ever exhibited the type of behaviour you claim yours does, I'd like to hear about it. And this may not be what you want to hear, but there is nothing SPECIAL about your particular Pokie. it is just like the rest of them out there, both in the wild and in captivity. So if a propensity to interact with humans as you describe WAS a thing, I'm pretty sure we'd have heard about it before you happened along.
> This is me trying to be reasonable. I still haven't completely ruled out trolling, but I don't hate it as much as a lot of people do (depending on the nature of it) so can be a little more patient. Of course, that patience only goes so far before I get ornery, something I can be kind of good at...  Ask anybody.


Agreed.. doesn't seem to be on much these days.

Reactions: Like 1


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