# Fun with a venomous friend!



## Talkenlate04 (Oct 26, 2010)

Gets your heart racing a little being around something that can kill you, and on top of that you are purposefully trying to piss it off so it will hood up for you! Did I mention they are fast too? All those things aside it was still fun! :twisted:


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## redrumpslump (Oct 26, 2010)

That's awesome man! We have a reptile walk through around were I live and it's pretty cool. It let's you get closer than most zoos. Keep the pics coming. 

Matt


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## Ookamii (Oct 26, 2010)

Beautifull, are its eyes dark red? or black? white cobras are my fav snakes. So im taking its not a venomoid?


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## Talkenlate04 (Oct 26, 2010)

Nope she is not, she is packing all the heat that god gave her. 
Her eyes are kinda redish black (more black than red), but shes a Lucy so that is somewhat expected.


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## Lucas339 (Oct 26, 2010)

what a beauty!!  these are on my list of wants but will never have....


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## Boanerges (Oct 26, 2010)

What a beautiful cobra!!! Awesome pics too Ryan!!


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## Moltar (Oct 26, 2010)

Wow, that is one beautiful cobra. I don't think I've ever seen an albino cobra before. There's nothing in the pics for scale, but she looks like just a baby, yes? How long?


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## Silberrücken (Oct 26, 2010)

D***, what an GORGEOUS snake!!!!!


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## Lucas339 (Oct 26, 2010)

Moltar said:


> Wow, that is one beautiful cobra. I don't think I've ever seen an albino cobra before. There's nothing in the pics for scale, but she looks like just a baby, yes? How long?


its a lucy.


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## Moltar (Oct 26, 2010)

Lucas339 said:


> its a lucy.


Does "lucy" mean baby snake? Sorry, I don't do spines so I'm ignorant in here.


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## DrJ (Oct 26, 2010)

Moltar said:


> Does "lucy" mean baby snake? Sorry, I don't do spines so I'm ignorant in here.


Leucism is a result of skin pigment reduction = white snake.  Albinism is a lack of melanin.  Two different things.

Google pictures for better clarification if you wish.  

Hope that helps!

Great pics, Ryan!


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## zonbonzovi (Oct 26, 2010)

Neat, Ryan!  Any chance it's being displayed publicly down there in Oregonland?


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## Talkenlate04 (Oct 26, 2010)

zonbonzovi said:


> Neat, Ryan!  Any chance it's being displayed publicly down there in Oregonland?


It won't be on display for the public. 



> but she looks like just a baby, yes? How long?


She is a baby indeed at about 15" long. She has a LOT of growing to do!


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## Dyn (Oct 26, 2010)

My girlfriend would really like to get into some of the venomous snakes, but I've decided against it.

I get bit by enough snakes I dont need any deadly ones trying. =P


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## sn95 (Oct 27, 2010)

Beautiful looking cobra.


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## Pennywise (Oct 27, 2010)

Spectacular! Monocled or Spectacled?


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## Talkenlate04 (Oct 27, 2010)

Shes a Monocled.


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## kevin91172 (Oct 29, 2010)

Stunning! I am about to get a 6' male albino monacled in a trade, cannot wait!


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## Redneck (Oct 29, 2010)

OK.. I have been wanting to ask everyone who keeps hots.. Do y'all feed live or F/T? 

I understand why you feed a constrictor a F/T.. Its safer..

Is the same risk there for a venomous snake? 

I would assume there is & kind of wonder if I am wasting my time asking this question.. But at the same time.. Being they are venomous.. Doesnt that lower the risk of them taking a bite from a feeder?


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## DrJ (Oct 29, 2010)

The risk is still there for injury, transfer of disease or parasites, etc.  

Frozen/thawed is the only way to go.


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## Talkenlate04 (Oct 29, 2010)

I only feed live myself, f/t is far to boring for me and they seem to appreciate live imo. Plus if you feed them things of appropriate proportion you rarely have an issue.


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## Talkenlate04 (Oct 29, 2010)

I posted a live feeding and did not really get any flak for it at all. Its what they eat. I mean think about it, which is more natural? Freezing a rat or mouse in whichever method at your disposal, then thawing it and feeding the snake, or feeding it live? I choose to do it the natural way, the rat and mouse lovers can jump off a bridge. I even own "pet" rats that have names and get to come out and run around and are spoiled and I care about, but at the end of the day they are rats lol. Maybe I am strange for thinking like that lol. Oh well would not be the first time I was in the minority.


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## Dyn (Oct 29, 2010)

There is nothing natural about how your keeping the snakes.

Its safer to feed F/T 99% of the time live wont hurt but all it takes is that 1% to bite you in the ass. You have an injured or possibly dead snake. I hope you have a good vet that will be willing to deal with your injured venomous snake.

How "natural" is the setup you have this snake in? Most people that try to pull the its natural to eat live food have their snakes on newspaper with a dog bowl of water. Now that doesnt seem very natural to me.


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## Talkenlate04 (Oct 30, 2010)

Dyn said:


> Most people that try to pull the its natural to eat live food have their snakes on newspaper with a dog bowl of water. Now that doesnt seem very natural to me.


The habitat is extremely naturalistic, but regardless if it was or was not a natural setup, live prey is still natural. That is not really a debate, that is a fact.
Sometimes when I am offering up some larger prey that can put up a decent fight I will thump them first but that is rare because I offer a size of prey that can be subdued by the snake easily. If it takes a bite it takes a bite so be it. Other than a neglectful owner leaving a rat in a tank for an extended period of time unsupervised I have never seen a bite from prey inflict damage anywhere near capable of killing the snake. 

Yes you can argue there is a risk of some crazy fluke attack but thats a risk I and many other live feeder owners know about before hand and accept. I get a better response from all of my snakes feeding live. That might have something to do with the fact that they have always for as long as they existed hunted and eaten live prey. (but thats just my thought on it) To each his or her own.

Also with venomous most strike and wait for the prey to die, then come back to it and eat it once it is dead.


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## Redneck (Oct 30, 2010)

First off.. I wasnt trying to start a debate in this thread.. I was just wondering if live was fed because of the venom.. 

Thanks for the answers..

Oh.. For the record.. If I ever own a hot.. That little booger would probably get live.. Im not sure I would have the balls to sit there and wiggle the F/T around in front of it like I do with my little 5.5' boa.. Id shipoo a brick if that thing almost missed..

Yeah.. The more I think about it.. I will stick to my boas..


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## Redneck (Oct 30, 2010)

Oh.. BTW.. That snake is gorgeous!


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## Dyn (Oct 30, 2010)

I just really dont feel that the risk no matter how small is worth scarring up a beautiful animal because f/t is "boring" to feed. If it takes a bite so be it kind of attitude is a very lousy one to have with your animals.


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## Talkenlate04 (Oct 30, 2010)

Redneck said:


> First off.. I wasnt trying to start a debate in this thread.. I was just wondering if live was fed because of the venom..


Ehh debates are fun sometimes. I personally can see both sides of the fence and understand why people choose live or f/t. It really comes down to personal preference imo. 



> Oh.. BTW.. That snake is gorgeous!


She is indeed! I may be getting a Naja naja soon, that should be interesting. It is a toss up between that or maybe a Dendroaspis polylepis, but I might hold off on that one until I have some more experience under my belt! I wanted a Naja kaouthia, but interestingly enough in my state they have not been classified yet as ok or not ok to keep so by default they are on the not ok list until they are defined. Many other Naja species are ok to keep here though.




Dyn said:


> I just really dont feel that the risk no matter how small is worth scarring up a beautiful animal because f/t is "boring" to feed.


I am responsible for around 200 snakes at the shop by me and not one of them has scars from their live prey, not even the big retics which get live rabbits weekly. Those snakes and the snakes in my personal collection are in perfect health and there is not a single mark on their body that would indicate otherwise.


> If it takes a bite so be it kind of attitude is a very lousy one to have with your animals.


Lousy attitude? Lol, dude get real, snakes are not fragile creatures made of glass. They exist on this earth to hunt and kill LIVE things, they are not scavengers. So long as reasonably sized prey is offered they will do what they do best, kill and eat it. Yes we can sit here and talk about all the what if this what if that,and you can say its not necessary to feed live in captivity because most will eat f/t thawed, but you can safely feed live fairly easily imo. 

Like I said above already, its a matter of personal preference. You do it your way, I do it mine, that does not make one of us a better keeper than the other imo.


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## Dyn (Oct 30, 2010)

Yes lousy saying well if it gets bit well it gets bit.

Bites can happen anytime. I had a rat bite me the other week taking it out of the box.

You're attitude how you first responded is what got me. Saying its "boring" to feed f/t at first and the part again saying if they get bit they get bit.

The live feeding videos are mostly bad for the hobby because most of them involve people laughing and giggling when the snakes strike and kill the mouse. It doesnt really show the hobby in a good light.


Enough of the debate aspect of this post let me oogle over your venomous snakes. lol

She is a really nice leucy what other venomous are you currently keeping?

I've thought about getting a few venomous but I just dont think I would feel comfortable enough keeping them. I thought about maybe a copperhead because they arent exactly deadly, but I think I'm just going to stay away from anything that can disfigure me with one slight bite. One of my dream snakes is a Gaboon viper I hate 99% of fat body snakes but for some reason I just really like the gaboons. The black mamba would really intimidate me lol


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## skippy (Oct 30, 2010)

A copperhead will cause permanent damage as well, just not as severe as most rattlesnakes. If you want something "less deadly" but still venomous I would recommend you start with a false water cobra or a mangrove snake... Something rear fanged and not a boomslang


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## Talkenlate04 (Oct 30, 2010)

Dyn said:


> The live feeding videos are mostly bad for the hobby because most of them involve people laughing and giggling when the snakes strike and kill the mouse. It doesnt really show the hobby in a good light.


I think its awesome to watch, its what they are designed to do. I doubt there is any animal lover out there that believes a snake eats vegetables, so me getting excited over watching it eat live, or someone giggling and rooting for the snake to kill the mouse is really not an issue imo because its what they do! 



> Bites can happen anytime. I had a rat bite me the other week taking it out of the box.


Were you constricting the life out of it while biting it when it bit you? lol. 
I have some friends that clip the rat teeth before they feed them to the snakes. (no nerves in rat teeth) But I cant bring myself to try that, it makes my teeth hurt just thinking about it.


> The black mamba would really intimidate me lol


They do get quite big, and they are quick little devils! I like adders too.


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## kevin91172 (Oct 30, 2010)

Talkenlate04 said:


> I posted a live feeding and did not really get any flak for it at all. Its what they eat. I mean think about it, which is more natural? Freezing a rat or mouse in whichever method at your disposal, then thawing it and feeding the snake, or feeding it live? I choose to do it the natural way, the rat and mouse lovers can jump off a bridge. I even own "pet" rats that have names and get to come out and run around and are spoiled and I care about, but at the end of the day they are rats lol. Maybe I am strange for thinking like that lol. Oh well would not be the first time I was in the minority.


Oh no sir I do feed live,some of my hots prefer it,I would not post a video on it is all I was getting at.I like watching videos on it.I just notice a lot of people flaming them for it.Anyways no disrespect to you man:worship::worship::worship:


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## Dyn (Oct 30, 2010)

Talkenlate04 said:


> I think its awesome to watch, its what they are designed to do. I doubt there is any animal lover out there that believes a snake eats vegetables, so me getting excited over watching it eat live, or someone giggling and rooting for the snake to kill the mouse is really not an issue imo because its what they do!


I think they actually sell a tofu type sausage for reptiles and I've heard crazier things.

It just isnt a good image for snake keepers when you have people doing that is what im saying.


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## PrimalTaunt (Oct 30, 2010)

Talkenlate04 said:


> I am responsible for around 200 snakes at the shop by me and not one of them has scars from their live prey, not even the big retics which get live rabbits weekly. Those snakes and the snakes in my personal collection are in perfect health and there is not a single mark on their body that would indicate otherwise.


200 snakes!? Wish there was something like that around here.  Went to one specialty reptile place fairly close when I was thinking of getting into snakes. They had about 20 snakes but I walked out when I saw they had avics with zero climbing space.


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## Talkenlate04 (Oct 30, 2010)

PrimalTaunt said:


> 200 snakes!? Wish there was something like that around here.  Went to one specialty reptile place fairly close when I was thinking of getting into snakes. They had about 20 snakes but I walked out when I saw they had avics with zero climbing space.


You gotta remember in a retail environment space is an issue and in the short term a confined avic in a small container is not going to have any issues. At the same shop they have started stocking tarantulas and they are all in small deli containers and such, but they still get fed and watered like they should. I have no problems with that personally.


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## Bengal21 (Nov 14, 2010)

Feeding live is an unnecessary risk.  Period.  Your snake doesn't prefer it.  You do.  You are putting your animal's health at risk for your own enjoyment.  With live, you run the risk of injury to your reptile, or parasites.  Saying your snake "responds" or "prefers" live food is total BS too.  I could show you a thousand snakes that ate live and a thousand that ate F/T and you couldn't tell me the difference in any of them if you didn't know which were which, other than maybe the wounds on the ones that were fed live.  I can't make you choose F/T, and if you wanna feed live you will, but feeding F/T is safer and an option.  The fact is, you're passing on the safest option for your pet, for your own enjoyment.

      In nature your dog would have to find and kill something to eat, but I'm guessing it gets dog food.  Having a pet isn't about "nature".  You take responsibility for a wild animal when you put it in a cage or a domesticated animal when you make it your "pet".


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## kevin91172 (Nov 14, 2010)

Bengal21 said:


> Feeding live is an unnecessary risk.  Period.  Your snake doesn't prefer it.  You do.  You are putting your animal's health at risk for your own enjoyment.  With live, you run the risk of injury to your reptile, or parasites.  Saying your snake "responds" or "prefers" live food is total BS too.  I could show you a thousand snakes that ate live and a thousand that ate F/T and you couldn't tell me the difference in any of them if you didn't know which were which, other than maybe the wounds on the ones that were fed live.  I can't make you choose F/T, and if you wanna feed live you will, but feeding F/T is safer and an option.  The fact is, you're passing on the safest option for your pet, for your own enjoyment.
> 
> In nature your dog would have to find and kill something to eat, but I'm guessing it gets dog food.  Having a pet isn't about "nature".  You take responsibility for a wild animal when you put it in a cage or a domesticated animal when you make it your "pet".


That is a good point! I love all my critters,but at the end of the day they are critters!! so each is their own in my opinion we must learn from each other is all


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## Philth (Nov 14, 2010)

Bengal21 said:


> Feeding live is an unnecessary risk.  Period.  Your snake doesn't prefer it.  You do.  You are putting your animal's health at risk for your own enjoyment.  With live, you run the risk of injury to your reptile, or parasites.  Saying your snake "responds" or "prefers" live food is total BS too.  I could show you a thousand snakes that ate live and a thousand that ate F/T and you couldn't tell me the difference in any of them if you didn't know which were which, other than maybe the wounds on the ones that were fed live.  I can't make you choose F/T, and if you wanna feed live you will, but feeding F/T is safer and an option.  The fact is, you're passing on the safest option for your pet, for your own enjoyment.
> 
> .


I agree that most snakes can't tell the difference, but if you never had a snake that didn't prefer live, you haven't kept enough snakes in my opinion.  

Later, Tom


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## SK8TERBOI (Nov 15, 2010)

That is one beautiful snake I used to have an albino Rattler when i was 16 she ended up having some issues as she was a WC i purchased and passed away shortly there after i had her about 7 months but that is a nice Cobra


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## Talkenlate04 (Nov 15, 2010)

This guy was fun to play with today too. 






















Bengal21 said:


> You are putting your animal's health at risk for your own enjoyment.


Lol what a load of crap. That is truly amusing.


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## Bengal21 (Nov 15, 2010)

Philth said:


> I agree that most snakes can't tell the difference, but if you never had a snake that didn't prefer live, you haven't kept enough snakes in my opinion.
> 
> Later, Tom


I've had plenty that wanted live at first and were resistant to switching to F/T.  Some are tougher than others.  They just aren't used to F/T in most cases and need to be coaxed.  
     What the snake wants is really irrelevant.  It's our responsibility to do what's SAFEST and HEALTHIEST for the animal, which in this case is provide it with non-dangerous, parasite-free food.  Lets be honest.  Most snakes would like to crawl into the back yard and vanish on a hot summer day if you let them.  A five year old would probably like a steady diet of candy and pop but I'm pretty sure you don't give that to them because it's not healthy.

Hots are another story, which I confess, I forgot this thread was about...but non-venomous...Zero reason to feed live.  Zero.  Like I said, I've been keeping snakes for 17 years.  That doesn't make me an expert but you saying the snake "wants" it so give it to them is pretty stupid logic.  Your snake wants to get out of its cage and curl up anywhere warm in the house it finds itself so lets do whats healthy for the snake rather than what it "wants":wall::wall::wall:


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## Talkenlate04 (Nov 15, 2010)

Bengal21 said:


> I could show you a thousand snakes that ate live and a thousand that ate F/T and you couldn't tell me the difference in any of them if you didn't know which were which, other than maybe the wounds on the ones that were fed live.


Lol why do you assume snakes that are fed live have wounds? That is a silly assumption. I could show you my whole collection, and all the snakes I feed at the shop and you could not pick out the f/t or live eaters ether. 

The fact remains snakes are designed to kill and eat things. Will most take f/t?, Yes they will, but that does not make it a healthier snake. Feeding live does not equal an unhealthy snake riddled with wounds and scars ether, and it also does not mean I am somehow putting my snakes life at risk. To think otherwise is just silly.


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## apopli (Nov 15, 2010)

Talkenlate04 said:


> Lol why do you assume snakes that are fed live have wounds? That is a silly assumption. I could show you my whole collection, and all the snakes I feed at the shop and you could not pick out the f/t or live eaters ether.
> 
> The fact remains snakes are designed to kill and eat things. Will most take f/t?, Yes they will, but that does not make it a healthier snake. Feeding live does not equal an unhealthy snake riddled with wounds and scars ether, and it also does not mean I am somehow putting my snakes life at risk. To think otherwise is just silly.


No, what's silly is thinking there is no risk. Even if it's relatively minimal, the risk still exists. There's nothing "natural" about keeping a snake in a rack (tank, rubbermaid, etc, no matter how "natural" the setup is made to look), and there's nothing "natural" about trapping a prey animal inside an enclosed environment where it has no means of escape.

It's also not so nice to the animals being fed. Rodents aren't oblivious to what's going on and are actually frighteningly intelligent creatures. I kept pet rats for a number of years, and one group I kept were litter trained, and performed tricks to various whistles. They were taught to retrieve things (if something fell behind the fridge or stove - if it was too large to carry they'd actually "team up" and push it out), and perform silly tricks (they'd dance, put a tiny ball in a tiny cup, all sorts of ridiculous things). They performed and learned just as quickly for praise as they did for food. They learned very very quickly and required little repetition to recall them.

Don't get me wrong. I've kept snakes for many years and have no issues with feeding them rodents. Cows are also interesting and intelligent creatures, but I have no hangups about eating burgers. But I don't eat those live either. lol

Feeding live, stunned, or f/t is a personal choice. Maybe nothing's happened, and maybe nothing ever will. They're your snakes, and it's your choice, and I don't think anybody is terribly concerned with talking you out of it. You're obviously an experienced keeper to manage at staying alive while maintaining healthy venomous species. lol

New people just coming into the hobby, however, need to understand that there IS a risk (rodents and rabbits have big teeth that cause puncture wounds, which aren't always visible), it's NOT the safest option for your snake, and if you don't know what to watch out for once you drop the critter in with the snake, you could be losing an expensive pet to a cheap feeder. Live feeding, if you're going to do it, should only be done by the experienced.

On a more "on topic" note, that guy you posted pics of is absolutely gorgeous. I'm a boa & python kind of girl, so I don't recognize the species, but he's good lookin!

And to the OP - Leucism kinda freaks me out! There's something eerie about it. lol. Lovely little one, though. Is he always that feisty or did you have to coax him up like that?


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## Talkenlate04 (Nov 15, 2010)

apopli said:


> No, what's silly is thinking there is no risk. Even if it's relatively minimal, the risk still exists.


 You crack me up. Show me where I say there is no risk. Ohhh wait thats right, I never said such a thing. Risk and risking life are two drastically different things. Please refer back to post #24 if you would like to see where I acknowledge the risk. 



> It's also not so nice to the animals being fed.


Strange this really does not bother me. I raise my feeder rats, I let them out and play with them, I name some, and I have no qualms with picking up Suzie and throwing her in with a snake. Call me messed up, but that rat only existed to feed my snake and it does not bug me one bit lol. I do however still maintain my thought that if a owner does what they should a live feeding will NEVER result in death. 


> Is he always that feisty or did you have to coax him up like that?


That is the funny thing, it was really really hard to get him to hood up. This guy was beyond passive. It is almost worse that way because you get a little bit lulled into a sense of safety that I'd rather not be in at all around them.


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## odiakkoh (Nov 15, 2010)

Talkenlate04 said:


> I do however still maintain my thought that if a owner does what they should a live feeding will NEVER result in death.


LIES! Unless you're telling me your snakes poop out live rats 

Sorry couldn't resist ;P


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## apopli (Nov 15, 2010)

Talkenlate04 said:


> I do however still maintain my thought that if a owner does what they should a live feeding will NEVER result in death.


This touches on a point I tried, and apparently failed, to get across. New owners often don't do as they should. If a person can't recognize that a snake isn't hungry, or they buy some half starved aggressive feeder animal, and just toss the two in a tank together, problems can result.

Others live feeding their snakes doesn't bother me. Not my snake. I don't do it, and I never will for various reasons (most of which have to do with practicality rather than emotional reasons - I've raised and slaughtered cows and chickens, I hunt and fish, same concept really). If asked, especially by those new to the hobby, I recommend f/t because it's safer. Not just for the potential of injury to the snake, but a stack of frozen critters from a reputable feeder dealer are going to be more healthy (and often cheaper) than something dug out of a lot of feeder bins (course you raise your own, so that wouldn't apply to you). If you've been doing it, and you've been successful, and you know what you're doing, good on you. I simply think it's important for newbies to become familiar with snake care and behaviour, and to have a somewhat healthy respect for the rodent's potential, before taking up the practice, is all.

Being truly totally opposed to live feeding is a little silly. There are specimen, especially w/c (ball pythons come to mind), that won't take f/t, or even fresh killed/stunned, prey. But most c/b snakes will. The decision has to be an educated one (and yours is - I never meant to imply that you, specifically, are doing it wrong). I've seen snakes come into rescues with rodent injuries. it's not pretty.


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## Talkenlate04 (Nov 15, 2010)

Oh I agree with you. The only major damage I have ever seen from a live feeder came from the owner that tossed in a rat and then left for the movies, or left for dinner, or ect ect ect, without seeing the rat be killed and the rat caused major major damage in the time the owner was away, and even mortally wounded the snake. But that right there is a perfect example of an owner fail on epic level.


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## kevin91172 (Nov 15, 2010)

Talkenlate04 said:


> This guy was fun to play with today too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Very nice is that an eastern or western?Is there a way to tell the difference by the post optical  marking,one has it the other does not?


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## Talkenlate04 (Nov 15, 2010)

That boy is a western. As far as telling the difference between the two, I have no clue lol. If if I am not mistaken I think easterns are a bit more drab in colors over all but I have not seen one in person.


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## kevin91172 (Nov 15, 2010)

Talkenlate04 said:


> That boy is a western. As far as telling the difference between the two, I have no clue lol. If if I am not mistaken I think easterns are a bit more drab in colors over all but I have not seen one in person.


Been wanting one of those for a while.A buddy has one and he let me tong feed it one day.All I can say is WOW! fast and had venom every where and lots of it! Been in love with these every since.


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## SK8TERBOI (Nov 15, 2010)

Wow that is crazy a Gaboon Viper is some serious Stuff I liked what i saw so much I went out to a Local That sells Legal Hots Here in California and picked up this Baby not sure on the SP. but he said mom is a WC From Desert Hot springs rescued from the road although judging by the way He/She Moves i am sure its a sidewinder


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## spinningspider (Nov 15, 2010)

Talkenlate04 said:


> That boy is a western. As far as telling the difference between the two, I have no clue lol. If if I am not mistaken I think easterns are a bit more drab in colors over all but I have not seen one in person.


Westerns have one triangle under the eye, easterns have 2


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## spinningspider (Nov 15, 2010)

Also easterns lack rostral scales in most cases I believe


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## Ookamii (Nov 15, 2010)

On the note of owners feeding Live and not being a watchfull owner, when my ex worked at petco i was there with him all day every day, a woman came in one day and bought a small rat as a feeder for her 10 foot python she bought 2 weeks beforehand, not 2 hours later she came back in screaming and yelling that she wanted her money back for the rat because it bit her pythons head and killed it. of course thay didnt give her money back because it was bought as a feeder not a pet. i ended up adopting the rat....he was a mean rat, blinded my female rat. course he got separated right after that..


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## skippy (Nov 15, 2010)

that is a crotalus cerastes cerastes or a crotalus cerastes laterorepens you have there sk8erboi.


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## kevin91172 (Nov 15, 2010)

skippy said:


> that is a crotalus cerastes cerastes or a crotalus cerastes laterorepens you have there sk8erboi.


This my crotalus cerastes laterorepens I believe his is a crotalus cerastes cerastes


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## kevin91172 (Nov 15, 2010)

apopli said:


> This touches on a point I tried, and apparently failed, to get across. New owners often don't do as they should. If a person can't recognize that a snake isn't hungry, or they buy some half starved aggressive feeder animal, and just toss the two in a tank together, problems can result.
> 
> Others live feeding their snakes doesn't bother me. Not my snake. I don't do it, and I never will for various reasons (most of which have to do with practicality rather than emotional reasons - I've raised and slaughtered cows and chickens, I hunt and fish, same concept really). If asked, especially by those new to the hobby, I recommend f/t because it's safer. Not just for the potential of injury to the snake, but a stack of frozen critters from a reputable feeder dealer are going to be more healthy (and often cheaper) than something dug out of a lot of feeder bins (course you raise your own, so that wouldn't apply to you). If you've been doing it, and you've been successful, and you know what you're doing, good on you. I simply think it's important for newbies to become familiar with snake care and behaviour, and to have a somewhat healthy respect for the rodent's potential, before taking up the practice, is all.
> 
> Being truly totally opposed to live feeding is a little silly. There are specimen, especially w/c (ball pythons come to mind), that won't take f/t, or even fresh killed/stunned, prey. But most c/b snakes will. The decision has to be an educated one (and yours is - I never meant to imply that you, specifically, are doing it wrong). I've seen snakes come into rescues with rodent injuries. it's not pretty.


 I like your point,I believe it can not be argued


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## Talkenlate04 (Nov 15, 2010)

Ookamii said:


> On the note of owners feeding Live and not being a watchfull owner, when my ex worked at petco i was there with him all day every day, a woman came in one day and bought a small rat as a feeder for her 10 foot python she bought 2 weeks beforehand, not 2 hours later she came back in screaming and yelling that she wanted her money back for the rat because it bit her pythons head and killed it.


Lol that sounds like a whale of a fish story. There is no way a healthy 10' python was taken out by a small rat. I mean think about it, the snake would have to lay there the whole damn two hours and let the rat chew on it without resisting at all.
I guess you just have to have been around snakes a while to be able too wade through a bullcrap story like this one.


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## kevin91172 (Nov 15, 2010)

Great the snake died because it was probably a cull,not a good thing of breeding those in the hobby...............


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## dtknow (Nov 15, 2010)

I see nothing wrong with live feeding-however many videos on youtube or ways that glorify live feeding or ridicule/torture the prey animal really turn people off to snake keepers. People think you are some kind of sadist if you keep a snake.


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## kevin91172 (Nov 15, 2010)

dtknow said:


> I see nothing wrong with live feeding-however many videos on youtube or ways that glorify live feeding or ridicule/torture the prey animal really turn people off to snake keepers. People think you are some kind of sadist if you keep a snake.


My point again and that's why i do not post videos of live feedings,and only do it in privacy in my own home.


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## spinningspider (Nov 15, 2010)

The only way to garuntee yoursnakes safety is to feed frozen. Period. Live prey can and will fight back. Its not natural that snakes in drink from waterbowls or are kept on aspen or newspaper. If you want to feed live cool, but its risks an injury everytime. Not to mention freezing rodents kills all possible parasites live rats and mice may carry


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## kevin91172 (Nov 15, 2010)

spinningspider said:


> The only way to garuntee yoursnakes safety is to feed frozen. Period. Live prey can and will fight back. Its not natural that snakes in drink from waterbowls or are kept on aspen or newspaper. If you want to feed live cool, but its risks an injury everytime. Not to mention freezing rodents kills all possible parasites live rats and mice may carry


Did not of even think of killing parasites at all in that method,,,,another good point.Yall debate some more for I can learn from this thread...THANKS


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## Talkenlate04 (Nov 15, 2010)

spinningspider said:


> The only way to garuntee yoursnakes safety is to feed frozen. Period. Live prey can and will fight back. Its not natural that snakes in drink from waterbowls or are kept on aspen or newspaper. If you want to feed live cool, but its risks an injury everytime. Not to mention freezing rodents kills all possible parasites live rats and mice may carry


Maybe I should wrap it in bubble wrap too because it might get a splinter slithering around without my constant care lol. 

I love watching them eat, always will. 
Here is my GTP taking down Stuart. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr93ig4HPZY



kevin91172 said:


> Did not of even think of killing parasites at all in that method,,,,another good point.Yall debate some more for I can learn from this thread...THANKS


Yes because there are so many documented cases of parasites being given to snakes by cb mice and rats.


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## spinningspider (Nov 15, 2010)

That's why I said possible. Like I said I don't like risking the safety of my animals in nay possible way.


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## kevin91172 (Nov 15, 2010)

Talkenlate04 said:


> Maybe I should wrap it in bubble wrap too because it might get a splinter slithering around without my constant care lol.
> 
> I love watching them eat, always will.
> Here is my GTP taking down Stuart.
> ...


Really?Cool Info


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## spinningspider (Nov 15, 2010)

And as too the aspen comment I was reffering to that substrate being unnatural. Its one of the best substrates on the market for many reasons.


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## kevin91172 (Nov 15, 2010)

Talkenlate04 said:


> Maybe I should wrap it in bubble wrap too because it might get a splinter slithering around without my constant care lol.
> 
> I love watching them eat, always will.
> Here is my GTP taking down Stuart.
> ...


Did not know they could get parasites this way either 
I never had a problem..but I had worms before back on the farm eating wild pigs not cooked thoroughly;P;P;P;P but I am still here;P;P;P;P;P;P


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## SK8TERBOI (Nov 15, 2010)

kevin91172 said:


> This my crotalus cerastes laterorepens I believe his is a crotalus cerastes cerastes


 Thanks so much Skippy & Kevin at least i can finally have an idea of what it is


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## Envyizm (Nov 16, 2010)

@ everyone blindly against feeding live to venomous due to safety risks:
Did you guys know that there are enzymes in snake venom that act as a digestion aid? Feeding live prey to venomous snakes stimulates them, causing the snake to dump more venom into the prey item thus helping in the aid of digestion. Yes, you can also do this with f/t by moving the rat/mouse while its in the mouth of the snake for a few moments, but live is probably the best for the mental and metabolic health of the snake providing that the prey item is bred captive. Oh and venomous snakes for the most part have a way faster feeding response compared to constrictors so the probability of injury to the snake is minimal when feeding live. You all also clearly have little to no experience with venomous snakes.


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## Envyizm (Nov 16, 2010)

@Talkenlate04:
Love the snakes man. How many hots do you currently have in your collection?
Sorry for the rant previous to this post, but i couldn't help myself.


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## spinningspider (Nov 16, 2010)

I've had lots of experience with hots. I keep elapids and crotalids and have worked with a very wide variety of venomous for years. I continue to feed frozen because through a good amount of experience I believe it is safer. Clearly I cannot change others oppinions I just wanted to share my knowledge and experience, as well as my own oppinions on proper husbandry.


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## Ookamii (Nov 17, 2010)

Talkenlate04 said:


> Lol that sounds like a whale of a fish story. There is no way a healthy 10' python was taken out by a small rat. I mean think about it, the snake would have to lay there the whole damn two hours and let the rat chew on it without resisting at all.
> I guess you just have to have been around snakes a while to be able too wade through a bullcrap story like this one.


Its what the woman said when she came in, of course she could have been lying about the size of her python to try and get some money out of petco, or been lying about the rat killing a snake at all.


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## CID143ti (Nov 17, 2010)

I wouldn't be surprised that a hungry, stressed rat could gnaw on a large snake until it died.  Some snakes won't fight back when getting picked at, they may try to flee but being kept in a container will prevent them from getting away.  Sometimes all the snakes choose to do is cover their head and take the gnawing.  I've never allowed a live mouse/rat to do this but I've watched a snake that was uninterested in food being picked at by a prey item.  I removed it as soon as it was obvious that the snake was not interested and being was being tormented by the prey.  I've seen images of quite a few snakes that have been gnawed on by prey...most have been young snakes.  

I feed both to my snakes...some are really picky eaters, some are true garbage disposers.  Some constrictors, especially young may grasp the prey where they can be chewed during the constriction.  I've seen some hots that don't strike and release...instead they occasionally get nipped while holding on.  

About the parasites from live mice/rats...I believe that I had this happen once.  It was mites that were transmitted from the mouse to my snake.  They were not rodent mites...instead, they were reptile mites.  The pet store that I was shopping at practiced returning uneaten mice to the holding cages and they were having mite outbreak in the snakes cages (reason that I don't purchase snakes from them).  I purchased the mice on their feed day and the mites had to have been transferred that way.

Oh, btw, awesome snakes.  I really think the lucy is awesome but sunsets have to be my favorite morph.

W. Smith


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## kevin91172 (Nov 17, 2010)

Envyizm said:


> @ everyone blindly against feeding live to venomous due to safety risks:
> Did you guys know that there are enzymes in snake venom that act as a digestion aid? Feeding live prey to venomous snakes stimulates them, causing the snake to dump more venom into the prey item thus helping in the aid of digestion. Yes, you can also do this with f/t by moving the rat/mouse while its in the mouth of the snake for a few moments, but live is probably the best for the mental and metabolic health of the snake providing that the prey item is bred captive. Oh and venomous snakes for the most part have a way faster feeding response compared to constrictors so the probability of injury to the snake is minimal when feeding live. You all also clearly have little to no experience with venomous snakes.


Yeppers! very fast feeding response,some of my constrictors I have to leave overnight  but mostly need to learn eating habits of the individual snake

Not to argue you here on feeding,but experience of keeping them and all of yall's opinions are considered,because of the group opinions and the personally experiences  

Do not want to come off as I hate a "YES MAN" here but we need to express the opinions and not hold back and stay open minded if we all want to succeed in what we love

AMEN done preaching
Kevin


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## bothriechis83 (Nov 22, 2010)

for talkenlate, just curious what your plans are when you get bit.  The risks are quite a bit more with venomous snakes than with tarantulas.  You also mention that the state hasn't outlawed certain venomous species but what about your local city ordinances?


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## SpiderGuy814 (Nov 22, 2010)

Talken, you are very funny you have my stomach hurting over here with the sarcasm and everything else. 

I used to have boas, corn snakes, and jungle carpet pythons. and regardless of what anyone would ever say to me they always got fed live mice (even though corn snakes never turn down food and eat anything lol) I chose to feed live when i had my snakes because one YES i did like to watch it (you can blame animal planet for that lol) but two because its normal for snakes to eat live prey. last time i checked  even if a snake got injuried from  its prey on animal planet they never stopped trying to get live prey nor did they go to rodentpro.com lol....

This quote below had me laughing the most because i agree with it, a rat is a rat and  even the people on craigslist have a nerve to  say "this hamster, gerbil, rat etc isnt snake food"..The way i see it if you are trying to get rid of it because you can longer care for it any more after it leaves your hands the emotional bond you have with it should be gone too. so if a  person wants to (temperarily) adopt it (for a lack of a better phrase when the rodent will be used for snake food) then the person should hand it over and call it a day. So many folks on craigslist think just because they give it a certain person that person will keep it alive as a pet lol....

"Strange this really does not bother me. I raise my feeder rats, I let them out and play with them, I name some, and I have no qualms with picking up Suzie and throwing her in with a snake."

I for one dont understand why people will buy a snake but get mad when other people feed it live rodents as if the frozen mice/rats they feed their snakes just willingly jumped in their gas chamber to die lol...Those rats/mice had to be put in there some how

I'm all for feeding live.  IMO snakes arent the type of pets that emotional people should have when they KNOW they have to eat other animals...get  a turtle or a gold fish I've never seen lettuce put up a fight lmao.


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## Talkenlate04 (Nov 22, 2010)

bothriechis83 said:


> for talkenlate, just curious what your plans are when you get bit.  The risks are quite a bit more with venomous snakes than with tarantulas.  You also mention that the state hasn't outlawed certain venomous species but what about your local city ordinances?


I am well aware of my city ordnances and there are many many things that are legal to keep when it comes to venomous in my city. It actually amuses me that it is harder to own an American alligator than it is to own something like a spitting cobra lol. I try to do things on the up and up because I have no desire to be breaking the law on any level.

If I get bit I am quite screwed. There is no anti-venom in my entire state. But getting bit is not really part of the plans. I feel no need to touch them or free handle them. LONG snake hooks are all I use. I do have some friends that feel the need to take theirs  out and try to hold them, but to me that is sheer stupidity. If there is a reason for it I can understand that, but just for the fun of it seems really dumb. I have had to grab a cobra by its head and take its eye caps off before, that was nerve wracking to say the least, but if you pay attention and to things by the book you can do it safely. 
The key to owning these guys imo is total respect.


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## kevin91172 (Nov 22, 2010)

SpiderGuy814 said:


> Talken, you are very funny you have my stomach hurting over here with the sarcasm and everything else.
> 
> I used to have boas, corn snakes, and jungle carpet pythons. and regardless of what anyone would ever say to me they always got fed live mice (even though corn snakes never turn down food and eat anything lol) I chose to feed live when i had my snakes because one YES i did like to watch it (you can blame animal planet for that lol) but two because its normal for snakes to eat live prey. last time i checked  even if a snake got injuried from  its prey on animal planet they never stopped trying to get live prey nor did they go to rodentpro.com lol....
> 
> ...


sorry "ditto"


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## kevin91172 (Nov 22, 2010)

Talkenlate04 said:


> I am well aware of my city ordnances and there are many many things that are legal to keep when it comes to venomous in my city. It actually amuses me that it is harder to own an American alligator than it is to own something like a spitting cobra lol. I try to do things on the up and up because I have no desire to be breaking the law on any level.
> 
> If I get bit I am quite screwed. There is no anti-venom in my entire state. But getting bit is not really part of the plans. I feel no need to touch them or free handle them. LONG snake hooks are all I use. I do have some friends that feel the need to take theirs  out and try to hold them, but to me that is sheer stupidity. If there is a reason for it I can understand that, but just for the fun of it seems really dumb. I have had to grab a cobra by its head and take its eye caps off before, that was nerve wracking to say the least, but if you pay attention and to things by the book you can do it safely.
> The key to owning these guys imo is total respect.


getting mine Wednesday,albino monocled 3' male! I live in the sticks!!!!!!!


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## Talkenlate04 (Nov 22, 2010)

That is awesome man! Make sure you post pics!


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## kbekker (Nov 22, 2010)

Talkenlate04 said:


> I have had to grab a cobra by its head and take its eye caps off before, that was nerve wracking to say the least, but if you pay attention and to things by the book you can do it safely.


Eye cap removal is not as necessary as many inexperience people will lead you to believe. Under most venomous circumstances they can be left to come off with the next shed.  If removal is preferred there are several techniques which don't require hands on restraint.  This is a pretty good example of how novices get bit.


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## bothriechis83 (Nov 22, 2010)

Unless your location has changed I think it is illegal to own them in Beaverton, OR.  Here is an ordinance from the city's ordinance website with their definition of a dangerous animal.

5.05.040 Keeping of Certain Animals Prohibited.
Except as otherwise provided in BC 5.05.043, no person shall keep a wild, exotic or dangerous animal. 

5.05.037 Definitions.
As used in BC 5.05.037 to 5.05.043, the following definitions apply:
Dangerous Animal – Any non-human animal that is of a wild or predatory nature, and constitutes an unreasonable danger to human life or property. A Dangerous Animal includes, but is not limited to, snakes of the family Pythonidae or Boinae, unless incapable of growing to eight feet or more in length; any alligator, crocodile or caiman; and any poisonous or venomous reptile.

http://www.codepublishing.com/OR/beaverton/


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## kevin91172 (Nov 22, 2010)

Talkenlate04 said:


> That is awesome man! Make sure you post pics!


Damn right I will! may be we can get off this live/frozen thread and get up some nicest cobra threads!  yours is very nice!with the black eyes!

Man i feel like its Christmas!Getting this snake,still want my gaboon though... and then I am done................I promise;P


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## kbekker (Nov 22, 2010)

Talkenlate04 said:


> If I get bit I am quite screwed. There is no anti-venom in my entire state.


Also I hope it is just you who gets bit.  One of my big concerns as a herper is that someone with an exotic will, by there own mistake, or through some other unforeseen accident, cause one of these species to get loose.  Now you have brought in a dangerous exotic into a location which doesn't have appropriate antivenom "in the entire state", by your own admission.  You dying is not much of a concern (you should understand the risks), a series of neighborhood kids is another issue


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## Talkenlate04 (Nov 22, 2010)

kbekker said:


> Eye cap removal is not as necessary as many inexperience people will lead you to believe. Under most venomous circumstances they can be left to come off with the next shed.  If removal is preferred there are several techniques which don't require hands on restraint.  This is a pretty good example of how novices get bit.


I don't pay any mind to one set of caps but the male in question had at least 3 sets of caps still on. And hands on restraint is really easy imo if you know what you are doing. 

Kbekker The odds of them getting out are somewhere between never and slim. I am not going to say it can't happen. An earthquake could destroy my cages and release everything.  But to be honest with you they can't get out of the room they are in, and getting out of their cages would be a feat in itself. 



> a series of neighborhood kids is another issue


Lol yes because this happens all the time. I challenge you to find any documentation that anything even close to that has ever happened.


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## kbekker (Nov 23, 2010)

Talkenlate04 said:


> Lol yes because this happens all the time. I challenge you to find any documentation that anything even close to that has ever happened.


Pet snakes get loose frequently.  Even from people who claim it could never happen.  Just in recent weeks a Toronto high rise was in the news because of this.  The fact that most of these are nonvenomous escapees is due to the frequency with which they are kept as pets over venomous, although ownership of venomous appears to be on the rise.  Concern for public safety is why cities pass dangerous animal ordinances.  The day a concern like this hits the popular media is when the exotic animal hobby will be crippled, pet boas loose are one thing, cobras or Dendroaspis are entirely different.


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## kevin91172 (Nov 23, 2010)

*Albino*

The guy sent me a pic of the snake I am getting tomorrow afternoon.

Will post better ones when his in my care.


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## Talkenlate04 (Nov 23, 2010)

I bet you are excited! 
Oh one bit of advice, these guys are escape artists, I would use a locking lid for this one!


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## kevin91172 (Nov 23, 2010)

Talkenlate04 said:


> I bet you are excited!
> Oh one bit of advice, these guys are escape artists, I would use a locking lid for this one!


Ha!Ha! Yeah the guy warned me.I got a 75 gallon top loading with a lot of locks.
Far as excited,very I have been waiting for months for this guy to come down and do this trade.We have anti-venom close by and Houston and in Galveston.For the snake I am trading with only place is what I did a find on is Miami dade  county venom one team.Guess what it is...Using venom for stroke victims


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## kbekker (Nov 23, 2010)

kevin91172 said:


> We have anti-venom close by and Houston and in Galveston.


Who's antivenom? Is it a "Miami Dade Fire and Rescue Antivenom Bank", kinda situation?


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## kevin91172 (Nov 23, 2010)

kbekker said:


> Who's antivenom? Is it a "Miami Dade Fire and Rescue Antivenom Bank", kinda situation?


 Do not understand your comment sorry...As far as Texas in a 50 mile radius  there is anti -venom available for the cobra in 3 locations
 The other snake the anti venom is in Florida and no it is not mine.anti venom
but it is available.As far as danger is concerned I am more afraid of driving in Houston.Danger is not a real problem with me I race at a drag strip and mud race a truck which some to believe is very dangerous.But life is short in imo and should be lived at each of us choose.Do not want to grow an old man thinking wish of ,could of,but I was afraid.

 You can flame all you want if that is what you like.Love you for it!And your opinions are considered but at the end of the day I will do as I choose!


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## SpiderGuy814 (Nov 24, 2010)

If I could "like" this as they do it on facebook I would so....LIKE lol


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## spinningspider (Nov 24, 2010)

Hey talken,
just fyi naja kaouthia is unlisted in ODFW regulations, so by default its a prohibited species.


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## Talkenlate04 (Nov 25, 2010)

spinningspider said:


> Hey talken,
> just fyi naja kaouthia is unlisted in ODFW regulations, so by default its a prohibited species.


I am very well aware of that thank you . You can petition the state to own any one of the prohibited species and it does not take much to get approved. All the state seems to care about is money not safety.


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## spinningspider (Nov 25, 2010)

Well my experience with the state has been nothing but positive and it didn't take much for me to get a permit for any and all species of prohibited herps. Better to make friends with the officials than enemies


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## Talkenlate04 (Nov 25, 2010)

I agree. They have been super easy people to work with which has been a pleasant surprise because I expected otherwise.


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## kevin91172 (Nov 28, 2010)

Man my new cobra is a bugger!:razz::razz: Just got a 75 gallon for him with a trap box:?:?:? We are still not getting along well,but that is expected


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## Talkenlate04 (Nov 30, 2010)

Pictures or it never happened!


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## kevin91172 (Nov 30, 2010)

I was waiting for that LOL! OK I am bringing home bosses camera and tripod,and is giving some tips on shooting pics through the glass with out getting a glare.Will post them this afternoon after work.

 And yes I am on ab at work,but it is lunch....


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## kevin91172 (Nov 30, 2010)

*Cobre Pic*







 Still trying to photograph better through glass,any tips on how I do light and such.Using a canon g10

Can not even spell cobra in title!


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## kevin91172 (Nov 30, 2010)

*one more pic*


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## kevin91172 (Dec 1, 2010)

*Last pic*

yea I should of just started another thread......


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## spinningspider (Dec 2, 2010)

Talken how long have you owned these critters?


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## Talkenlate04 (Dec 2, 2010)

I don't recall saying I owned any of them 

I just photograph them and work with for a few hours a week.

Awesome snake you got there Kevin!


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## jbm150 (Dec 2, 2010)

So beautiful, to both of the snakes.  You guys have massive, brass-plated cojones for keeping/working with them.  Keep up the pics and be oh-so careful with them!


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## kevin91172 (Dec 2, 2010)

"I don't recall saying I owned any of them" 

Ha!Ha! I guess you didn't!

 Thanks man!


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