# Jungle Carpet Pythons



## BigSam (May 17, 2003)

Ok there is another snake in the picture!!  Now it is between the Guyanan and the Jungle carpet  python!!  I do realize the size of the carpet python and the guyanan.  I want links to jungle carpet pythons care sheets.  Another thing are they harder to take care of then the Guyanan??  I know alot on the Guyanan now so I don't need that.  I do all this reseach because I don't want to buy a snake that I know nothing about like when I first bought my ball and he had mites.  I don't want to do that again.


----------



## Bry (May 17, 2003)

Sam, no matter what I recommend to you, it seems to me you insist on doing things the wrong way. The only reason I continue to bother, is because I'm looking out for the best interest of the snakes. In my personal opinion, I think you should focus on getting the hang of caring for your ball python properly before moving on to another snake. For example, it seems to me you're still feeding your ball python live, moving prey, even though we've suggested you feed frozen-thawed or fresh-killed prey. You even told us that you were feeding stunned prey (which is better than live, moving prey), but it's obvious you lied about that. I'm not trying to attack you or anything. I just don't want to have to say 'I told you so' when you come in here freaking out because a mouse has just bitten your ball python.

Also, I've told you and many other people that a Colombian BCI is a better choice than any BCC (and that includes Guyanans), but you went for the Guyanan because it's prettier. Remember the snake puking in your car? A lot of other snakes wouldn't do that. Doesn't that tell you something about them? You say you do a lot of research, but it is quite obvious to me that you don't. My personal, honest opinion is that you don't get a second snake that is any harder to care for than a ball python. But, what does it matter, you insist on not listening and doing things your own way.

To answer your question since you asked anyways, jungle carpet pythons are a better choice than a Guyanan. Jungle carpets don't get as large as Guyanans, and they don't puke in cars. Young carpets sometimes will be pretty picky about food, but are usually quite voracious. Young carpets also tend to be pretty bitey, but they usually grow out of it. Usually means sometimes they never grow out of it. I just hope the aggression doesn't cause you to get mad and neglect the snake. If you absolutely -MUST- get another snake, get a corn snake.

Peace,
Bry


----------



## BigSam (May 17, 2003)

*what's up Bry*

Whats up Bry, I'm not attacking you just like you told me but, It's sounds like your calling me a liar. I haved fed my ball python stunned rats, I don't think I did it right because his front legs where still moving but his back legs weren't. I only did that when he was shedding, it was the only time that it was neccesary. All the other times when I feed my ball python I watch and make sure that the mouse is not getting to brave and whating to attack. Then you say I don't do research on my snakes, whats up with that?? You don't think I take in all your comments?? When I was falling when my ball python had mites all you guys told me what to do, I did it and it got better didn't he?? When I was having problems with him shedding you agian told me what to do, agian he went though a shed. Ok it wasn't a perfect shedd but it all came off. My same ball python is going though another shedd right now, it seems to be doing fine. Your little comment "you insist on doing things the wrong way" I think you where calling me stupid and clowning on me on that one. I still can't figure out where you got that I don't look up these snakes on the internet(research) I'm kinda mad and confused at the same time. The guyanan regure in the car that wasn't my falt. That was radical reptiles falt for feeding that snake the day before the show.

You know Bry it's funny,  When I came back to the form and it said Bry  I was thinking oh yes, Bry with some -HELP- but no he calls me a lair and stupid at the same time.  I just wish that there was a way that I could prove to you and every body esle that I could handle a Guyanan or Jungle carpet.

You say that I will forget the snake when he bites me,  I have had my ball python bite me and I don't  stop holding it because I know that he will just get worst and keep biting me.  I rather take the hit once over taking it five times.

If I don't research my snakes then why was I asking for care sheets and good web sites on then??  Got you there


----------



## Gillian (May 17, 2003)

Sam,
    Yet another opinion..Ball Pythons can live several decades. The longest living on record is 40 some years. Plus, I agree. I'm NOT jumping you. If you can keep a Ball healthy and thriving for a few years, than get another. But, remember this; you'll have the Ball and the other snake to care for for several decades.

  Believe me and you, once they are past the "cute baby" stage, there will be no homes for them, when large.
Peace,
Gillian


----------



## Bry (May 17, 2003)

*Re: what's up Bry*

Okay, first of all, I never did say you were stupid or anything. I don't think that either. I simply said that you seem to disregard other's advice, and that's a bit frustrating. For instance, I advised you and others that Petco is not a good place to get snakes. Why, you ask? Because Petco gets wild-caught ball pythons, and those snakes almost always come with free mites and feeding problems. You went right out and got a ball python from Petco anyways. You were lucky to get one that eats well, but you still got the mites. You took the advice, and the mites were taken care of. I commend you for getting that taken care of quickly.

I've also said that feeding live is not a good idea time and time again. I may come across preachy on that point, but I cannot stress it enough because it's something I feel strongly about. From what you have said in previous posts, I'm under the impression that you continue to feed live prey. By 'live', I mean prey that is fully capable of running around and biting. I asked you once if you fed live, you said no, the prey is stunned. Yet, a month later, you said the ball python grabbed the mouse before it had the chance to hit the ground and run. In fact, in your most recent post in this thread, you said you watch to make sure the mouse doesn't get brave and want to attack. Last time I checked, a mouse that's had its lights knocked out doesn't have the mental or physical capability to want to run or attack. That is what I feel you lied about.

This was posted on 4-16-2003:


> _Originally posted by BigSam_
> *What I do is I get the end of an screw diver and hit the mouse hard in the back of the head and that keeps him from moving.*


Another post on 5-13-2003:


> _Originally posted by BigSam_
> *In his feeding cage he was in a corner and in the "S" position so I kind of tossed in the mouse in that corner.  He hit that mouse before it had a chance to hit the ground or run.*


Another post on 5-17-2003:


> _Originally posted by BigSam_
> *All the other times when I feed my ball python I watch and make sure that the mouse is not getting to brave and whating to attack.*


Also, why do you feel frozen prey is harder to work with than live prey? With live prey, you have to deal with keeping them alive, then you have to kill or stun them before feeding them to your snake. Frozen prey are quite content to live in my freezer with hundreds of other rats. You don't have to pay any attention to them for several months. Just take them out and thaw them when you need them.

The reason I feel you don't do your research, is because when you went to the Arizona reptile show, you had the choice of a Guyanan or a salmon. You went with the Guyanan because it was prettier. That sounds like an impulse buy to me. I do agree with you on one point, the Guyanan puking in your car was Radical Reptiles' fault. Anybody who knows BCCs should know that BCCs regurge easily. They shouldn't have fed the snake right before the show. The point I was trying to make is that BCCs are sensitive, and something like a show will probably stress them enough to regurge. It's not a good idea to feed any snake right before any highly stressful event. However, I'm sure many other less sensitive species would probably have been able to keep their food down. The other reason I feel you don't do your research is because you told another member in a different thread that a good snake to start with would be a BCC.

Another post on 5-14-2003:


> _Originally posted by BigSam_
> *One good red tail boa would be a guyanan or any other type bcc boa.*


I'm glad you're asking around and doing your research now. Good for you. I do not think you're incapable of keeping Guyanans or jungle carpet pythons. I simply think you need to get a little more experience under your belt. I hardly think two ball pythons will provide adequate experience to deal with Guyanans and JCPs. I simply think you should hold off on these two for a little bit. Guyanans are quite sensitive, and JCPs can be quite feisty...but, out of the two, JCPs are easier to care for, IMO. Here's a suggestion, if you like Guyanans so much, why not start with something similar and easier to keep, like a Colombian BCI. They're not as prone to regurge as Guyanans, and they're usually quite tame and easy to handle. Most of them also have very good appetites. They'll even take frozen-thawed prey without too many problems. 

Bry


----------



## BigSam (May 18, 2003)

*Ok Bry*

Ok Bry,  you say that I picked the guyanan over the salmon because it was nicer.  The main reason that I picked the guyanan over the salmon is because little baby salmons are running for like 8, 9 hundred bucks.  Then think of the cage and the rest of that stuff,  I will eaisly go over 1 grand.  the Guyanan was at a good price the cheapiest I ever seem them on the internet.  He was also big.  On the internet they are all skinny and dinky looking.  This one was nice and round and was ready to breed not only that he was tame.  I heard that guyanans and other bcc's boas are kinda mean.  I don't see why it is so hard to keep a Guyanan other then the you have to keep them at higher temps and humidity.  I know they big,  but how long does it take for them to get that big a couple of years...right.  By that time it will be a peace of cake.  Columbians those don't stay small but I realize that with those there a little easier because there not so picky like guyanans.

Wow, hold up Bry, your putting words in my mouth now.  I bought my ball python from petco and then came on this site.  I was new to this and didn't know that there was a snake form until MrT told me.  Remember I had a rose hair, that is how I first found this site by MrT.

Ok your still on that feeding live stuff.  I have hit the mouse with the end of a screw driver, but I only did it two times, then I stopped.  I didn't once when my ball python was shedding and he wasn't eating.  I didn't it again when my little female was in the cage for about 20 min and she was showing no interest so I took the mouse out and hit a couple of times. 

Your putting more words in my mouth,  I never siad that I was keeping mice in my home.  I go out once a week and get two common mice.  I have never tried that frozen stuff because I think it is grose.  Keeping a dead rat in my freezer with all my other foods.  If I went to frozen I wold buy another small freezer just for them.  Thawing them out doesn't sound to nice either.  My big ball python won’t probably even eat frozen mice because he is so used to live.  

One more thing Bry you never answered my question”if I’m not looking up my snakes on the web then why am I asking for care sheets and good web sites?”

Oh and that guy I told him that if he could the size and the and keeping of the temps and humidity he would be fine you seemed to miss that.


----------



## Gillian (May 18, 2003)

Sam,
    Keep the rodents in ziploc baggies. Heck, double bag 'em. Another bonus; freezing kills parasites. As we speak, I'm still contending with mites on my Red Tail. As a matter of fact, I'll be going out and getting a Tupperware container, as I'll be moving back home.

   Why the Tupperware? My niece, who also lives there, is paralyzed with fear of rodents. Thawing them really isn't bad. Its not like they rupture open, spewing blood and guts. Look at it as thawing those meal in a baggie things for humans. (not trying to be a smartaleck) Besides, I'd much rather deal with frozen food items than whack a live animal every week.
Peace,
Gillian


----------



## Bry (May 18, 2003)

*Re: Ok Bry*

*WARNING:* Due to the graphic nature of the images below, viewer discretion is advised.

Well, if you want a Guyanan, go for it. Nobody said you couldn't have one. I was simply looking out for you and the snake. I just thought I would recommend something easier to work with. Come back in a couple years, and tell me if it's a piece of cake handling a 8-9' boa that doesn't want to cooperate. How about when the snake gets even larger? Let me ask you this, do you know how to care for a snake that has a regurging problem?

Perhaps I got a bit mixed up on the timeline of when you got the ball. It doesn't matter now. What's done is done, and the snake sounds to be in good health.

Yes, I'm still on the feeding live thing because it's something I feel strongly about as I already stated. How come you stopped stunning mice after only two times? If keeping mice in your freezer grosses you out, that's fine. There are other options. You can put the mouse in a plastic grocery bag, or an old pillowcase, and thump it hard once or twice on a wall or door. If your ball python is feeding as well as you say he is, I'm sure he'll grab the fresh-killed mouse from you. If not the first time, they both will probably take it after a few tries. I bet you if I ever came to your place, I could convince your snakes to take a dead mouse. It's a very common misconception that if a snake is used to being fed live, it won't feed on dead prey. Snakes regularly eat dead prey as well as live in the wild. It's easier, and safer, why take risks and do it the hard way?

There are 21 snakes here in this apartment, and I have seen hundreds of snakes. Out of all those snakes, only -ONE- which lives here, flat out refuses dead prey. Even then, she can be persuaded to take a dead rat with a lot of encouragement. Every one of the others don't have any problem with taking dead prey. A couple of the boas had been used to eating live prey their whole lives before coming here, but they still grabbed a dead rat on the first try.

I'm sure you know by now Guyanans are not cheap snakes. A single bite can lead  to many problems, including death. Do you really want that to happen to your prized Guyanan? I'm pretty sure you don't.

Here's a picture of a kingsnake adopted by Ravnos after sustaining a single bite from a mouse. That single bite caused serious infections and the snake eventually died. Those swellings in the snake's body are infections.






Here's a boa that also was adopted by Ravnos after it had been chewed on by a rat. This boa was very lucky to survive. I have more gruesome pictures if you want them.






Actually, I did comment on your question about requesting good websites and caresheets. It's good that you're taking some effort to research on these snakes. Here's a couple good websites for you.
Reptilehaven.net
Redtailboas.com



> Oh and that guy I told him that if he could the size and the and keeping of the temps and humidity he would be fine you seemed to miss that.


You told him he could what? I must have missed that. Copy and paste a quote or a link where you said that.

Peace,
Bry


----------



## BigSam (May 18, 2003)

*You win Bry*

Bry I know what I put down here it is

The thing with red tail boa is that they get pretty big. If size is not a problem then that is a perfect choice. Another thing with boas is that you have to keep the humditity and the temp just right. If size doesn't matter and you can haddle the humditiy the red tail boa is a perfect choice. If size does matter then go with a ball python. 

Sam,

http://

Right there it is Bry, 

I stopped beating the rats because My ball python hits that rat so fast the rat doesn't have time to respond or even run. 

Oh by the if I was to start feeding frozen mice how do you freeze them... just like anything else


----------



## Gillian (May 18, 2003)

Bry,
    Thank you for trying. The pics of the Kingsnake? My Ball Othello had a absolutely MASSIVE abcess on his spine. He was paralyzed when I took him. I had to help the poor thing defecate, and he required shots twice a day. Eventually, thankfully, he came around. The "gruesome" pics, IMO, should be on all caresheets. Rodents are nasty creatures.

Pics you never see? The rodent not being completely dead. In that case, it will chew at the hapless snake, from the inside.
Peace,
Gillian


----------



## Lasiodora (May 18, 2003)

Sam,
Why not master keeping a ball python before getting into other snake species.  Do you know the sex of the ball python you have now? Consider getting a ball of the opposite sex.  Work with the two snakes and try to breed them. It's a challenge but you would learn a lot from the experience.  If you still want to get into other species immediately, speak to reputable dealers. Look for someone who works almost exclusively with the particular species or genus of snake.  When you make your final decision these breeders will provide you with records about the snake and exactly how they house the snakes.  Also, I wouldn't rely too much on internet caresheets.  Sometimes they can be unreliable.  if you use any try to get them from a breeder site.  I would rely more on breeders and good books on boids than surfing the net.

BTW, Jungle carpets get up 5-5 &1/2 ft.  They are arboreal and hail from rainforests (they like humidity).  Babies are generally very nippy. Some will calm down with time. Others will not. I have a friend who keeps a pair. She works with them using snake hooks because they never calmed down with handling.  They are very defensive and do not hesitate to bite.  A jungle bite is nothing to laugh at.  This does not mean that all jungles will be this way. The temperment of the snake will depend on the individuals personality.  85-90 (basking spot) is fine for daytime temps.  The enclosure can be allowed to drop into the 70's at night.  They are not difficult snakes to keep if you have the right set up. 

Remember to consider the adult size of the snake before buying one. Most boas and pythons grom pretty quickly.  Remember, a big snake will require a large enclosure and large food items.  You don't want the snake to suffer because you could not provide it with the proper enviornment or food.
Mike


----------



## Bry (May 18, 2003)

*Re: You win Bry*



> _Originally posted by BigSam _
> *I stopped beating the rats because My ball python hits that rat so fast the rat doesn't have time to respond or even run.
> 
> Oh by the if I was to start feeding frozen mice how do you freeze them... just like anything else*


Okay, I can understand why you feel that way. Thing is, snakes make mistakes, and no matter how fast your ball hits the prey, it might bite or wrap in such a way that still gives the prey room to move and bite the snake. I have heard of stories where a rodent has had enough room to turn and bite the snake through the skull, killing the snake, or even biting the snake's eye. That will happen so fast you won't be able to do a thing about it. Remember, the mouse is only trying to save its own life. I have snakes that grab their food extremely fast, but there are just too many things that could go wrong.

As for freezing mice, you can kill it, then put it in a ziploc bag in the freezer. Don't put a live mouse in the freezer, the freezing process is extremely painful for them. When you need them, just take them out and thaw them in very warm water until the mouse feels warm all the way through. Some pet stores, especially those that specialize in reptiles will provide frozen mice. They're usually cheaper than live mice. You can even pre-order 2-3 months' worth of frozen mice online. I get mine from Cajun Mice and am pleased with their service. I have also used RodentPro and I like their service also. Just talk it over with your parents before sticking a rodent in your freezer. If they balk, there's always the option of pre-killing them yourself.

Bry


----------



## Ultimate Instar (May 19, 2003)

In the interest of maintaining household harmony, I suggest that pre-killed frozen rodents should be put in plastic bags and then put in PAPER BAGS so that other family members don't have to look at them next to the ice cream.  Oh, and remember to label the paper bag unless you want to give someone a nasty surprise.  

As far as pre-killed prey items, I always feed thawed rodents to my snakes and avoid live prey altogether.  It's not that I'm squeamish; I have personally killed rabbits, rats, mice and chicks.  However, it can get a bit disgusting when they bleed a great deal.  Also, I do not recommend trying to break the neck on a chicken by yanking on it's neck.  I did that once, several years ago.  Ummm, let's just say that one piece of chicken became two pieces of chicken.  

Karen N.


----------



## BigSam (May 19, 2003)

*I will try it*

Ok, Ok, Ok, I will try to feed my small female ball python a frozen mouse.  I can’t feed my big ball python a frozen mouse because he is in shed.  If I like what I see with the frozen mouse I will continue to do it.  I am not making any promises that I will continue to feed frozen mice but I will give it a try.  Tuesday is feeding day for me so tomorrow I will try a frozen mouse on my female.  

Sam,


----------



## pategirl (May 19, 2003)

I don't really see why you have a problem using frozen, Sam. You put other dead animals in your freezer most likely. You're not making any promises? What about the silent promise you made to those snakes when you took them home? It's your responsibility to take all possible precautions to prevent something like what is in the pictures Bry posted. What if one day one of your pythons doesn't grab that mouse as quickly as you say it does now? You may not always be able to prevent a horrible injury from a live rodent. You can either put mice in the freezer or kill them yourself somehow, or take the risk of having one or both of the snakes killed, horribly scarred, or both. I'm not coming down on you...I don't mean to sound that way, but it's something to think about.


----------



## Bry (May 20, 2003)

*Re: I will try it*

I agree with Ultimate Instar, put the frozen mice in an opaque bag to block visibility. It doesn't bother me or anyone else who lives here, so, I keep mine in clear plastic bags.  Just be sure to thaw the mice in very warm water for about 10-15 minutes. It should feel warm all the way through. Hold the mouse in your hands, and if it turns cold after a couple seconds, it's still frozen inside. The head should not feel cold either. Try a mouse with the big one after he sheds also. They might not switch right away, but they should with a few tries. I don't see what the problem is either, but if you don't like what you see (why shouldn't you?) you can always go with fresh-killed mice. The mouse-in-bag method can get bloody, but most of the time it doesn't. Besides, what's more important to you, a bloody mouse or a bloody snake? We're not trying to come down on you, Sam. We're just looking out for your snakes.

Bry


----------



## Craig (May 20, 2003)

threads like this just re-affirm my hatred for the pet trade. Sam, if you can't master feeding a ball python then don't get anymore snakes.  remember that they are living things with thoughts and feelings.


----------

