# Would "neverwet" be bad to put inside a vivarium/terrarium?



## CreepyCrawlyCool (Mar 7, 2016)

As a way to keep visibility high in the enclosure would _NeverWet _be a good solution, or would it poison whatever I put in there?


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## lunarae (Mar 7, 2016)

I honestly don't know. I would think it could cause issues for the inhabitants, then again maybe not. I'm assuming you want it for the glass of the enclosure. I would think if you WERE to try it, you'd have to apply that and let it dry completely before continuing the process of making your vivarium. I don't think adding it after the vivarium is going to work, you wouldn't want that getting on your plants or substrate and effect their ability to absorb moisture. I dunno about what the toxicity/complications would be for any insects that might consume it and from there the effects on anything consuming the insects. I would think that as long as you apply it prior and let it dry and before you set up the vivarium it might work out just fine.

Maybe try it out on a small scale. Make like a 2.5 gallon tank and put it on the walls and see how the plants and microfauna handle it after a couple of months? If they don't fair well then obviously it'd be a no. If they handle it you might get away with it then try housing feeders and see how they respond and if they don't die then I'd think it might be ok?

I'm a newbie though and never worked with the stuff, but that's my thoughts on it.


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## CreepyCrawlyCool (Mar 7, 2016)

Ignore this


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## CreepyCrawlyCool (Mar 7, 2016)

lunarae said:


> I honestly don't know. I would think it could cause issues for the inhabitants, then again maybe not. I'm assuming you want it for the glass of the enclosure. I would think if you WERE to try it, you'd have to apply that and let it dry completely before continuing the process of making your vivarium. I don't think adding it after the vivarium is going to work, you wouldn't want that getting on your plants or substrate and effect their ability to absorb moisture. I dunno about what the toxicity/complications would be for any insects that might consume it and from there the effects on anything consuming the insects. I would think that as long as you apply it prior and let it dry and before you set up the vivarium it might work out just fine.
> 
> Maybe try it out on a small scale. Make like a 2.5 gallon tank and put it on the walls and see how the plants and microfauna handle it after a couple of months? If they don't fair well then obviously it'd be a no. If they handle it you might get away with it then try housing feeders and see how they respond and if they don't die then I'd think it might be ok?
> 
> I'm a newbie though and never worked with the stuff, but that's my thoughts on it.


Thanks, I have not made the thing yet so I would be able to try that.


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## lunarae (Mar 7, 2016)

*nods* Yeah the only way I see it working is if you applied it prior to making it. Applying it after the fact I think would just kill everything. Should post if it works out or not. I'd love to know, I run into issues with water on the sides of my one 5.5 vivarium, knowing if this will work for future enclosures would be great.


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## Sam_Peanuts (Mar 7, 2016)

If your plan is to keep visibility up, nerverwet is not a very good idea according to their FAQ which says it's not recomended to use on glass:

"What are some applications which are not (currently) good for NeverWet?
...
Windows/windshields/glasses. This coating will frost your glass"

As far as toxicity goes, it seems to only be the solvent that is dangerous so as long as it has enough time to evaporate completely, it should be safe.


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## CreepyCrawlyCool (Mar 7, 2016)

lunarae said:


> *nods* Yeah the only way I see it working is if you applied it prior to making it. Applying it after the fact I think would just kill everything. Should post if it works out or not. I'd love to know, I run into issues with water on the sides of my one 5.5 vivarium, knowing if this will work for future enclosures would be great.


If I find something that will probably work, I will.


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## CreepyCrawlyCool (Mar 7, 2016)

Sam_Peanuts said:


> If your plan is to keep visibility up, nerverwet is not a very good idea according to their FAQ which says it's not recomended to use on glass:
> 
> "What are some applications which are not (currently) good for NeverWet?
> ...
> ...


I do not know how I did not see that. Thanks. I'm looking into other hydrophobic coatings now.


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## lunarae (Mar 7, 2016)

Cool. ^.^


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## viper69 (Mar 7, 2016)

CreepyCrawlyCool said:


> I do not know how I did not see that. Thanks. I'm looking into other hydrophobic coatings now.



Are you putting animals in the viv? If so, why would you risk putting chemicals onto any surface they will come in contact with? Sounds like a bad idea.


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## CreepyCrawlyCool (Mar 7, 2016)

viper69 said:


> Are you putting animals in the viv? If so, why would you risk putting chemicals onto any surface they will come in contact with? Sounds like a bad idea.


I'm not blindly going to do it. In case you have forgotten in the time it took you to read the question and post your response, I am currently looking into whether it would put harmful chemicals into the mix. I am trying to ascertain the risk and whether it would be likely to do harm to the arachnid or the plants within. I have attempted to keep a terrarium before and the plants started dying because they weren't getting enough sun with the water in the way so I wanted to do everything in my power to keep that from happening and as an added bonus it would be more aesthetically pleasing and easy to see the arachnid.


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## viper69 (Mar 7, 2016)

CreepyCrawlyCool said:


> I'm not blindly going to do it. In case you have forgotten in the time it took you to read the question and post your response, I am currently looking into whether it would put harmful chemicals into the mix. I am trying to ascertain the risk and whether it would be likely to do harm to the arachnid or the plants within. I have attempted to keep a terrarium before and the plants started dying because they weren't getting enough sun with the water in the way so I wanted to do everything in my power to keep that from happening and as an added bonus it would be more aesthetically pleasing and easy to see the arachnid.


I haven't forgotten a thing, you didn't write enough to forget in the entire thread that I wrote, not just your post hahahaha

Unless it's been tested on arachnids you don't know for sure if it will harm the arachnid or not. So in putting some chemical in there, it's a risk.

It's not impossible to keep plants w/Ts, just not ideal from a husbandry perspective. I know someone that did it quite successfully in a large fish tank, with an automated misting system as well with very large S. American species. His plants grew great, and he didn't need any special coatings on the glass to see his T.


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## CreepyCrawlyCool (Mar 7, 2016)

viper69 said:


> I haven't forgotten a thing, you didn't write enough to forget in the entire thread that I wrote, not just your post hahahaha
> 
> Unless it's been tested on arachnids you don't know for sure if it will harm the arachnid or not. So in putting some chemical in there, it's a risk.
> 
> It's not impossible to keep plants w/Ts, just not ideal from a husbandry perspective. I know someone that did it quite successfully in a large fish tank, with an automated misting system as well with very large S. American species. His plants grew great, and he didn't need any special coatings on the glass to see his T.


I am mostly wanting to create environments, so that is why I want plants in there, but ultimately the arachnids would be more important. I was asking on this forum specifically because I figured that I would not be able to find someone who tested it for arachnid safety elsewhere and there was a sliver of a chance that a like-minded individual with more resources than I had already tested it. I do not know if the coating will be necessary and I do not know if the arachnids I am planning on getting even need a high enough humidity to make it worth it. I am just trying to work out the kinks in my hypotheticals.


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## viper69 (Mar 7, 2016)

CreepyCrawlyCool said:


> I am mostly wanting to create environments, so that is why I want plants in there, but ultimately the arachnids would be more important. I was asking on this forum specifically because I figured that I would not be able to find someone who tested it for arachnid safety elsewhere and there was a sliver of a chance that a like-minded individual with more resources than I had already tested it. I do not know if the coating will be necessary and I do not know if the arachnids I am planning on getting even need a high enough humidity to make it worth it. I am just trying to work out the kinks in my hypotheticals.


I see what you mean. Honestly, if arachnids are your goal, it's easier to do w/out live plants. But as I mentioned, not impossible. You won't find anyone that has done chemical testing on arachnids because that is not where the research dollars are for arachnid research, nor are they pests.

I'd determine what arachnids you are going to get, then find out what native plants they evolved around and if such plants are obtainable and able to be propagated in captivity (care requirements), if YES, just give it a go. I think you are putting the cart before the horse.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## lunarae (Mar 8, 2016)

One thing to note when it comes to the glass of your enclosure whatever it is, to avoid the water spots just use RO water, or distilled water to water or mist the plants so there is no mineral/calcium buildup. Another thing to focus on is your substrate you decide to use. If you use a substrate that lets air move through it well but holds moisture you'll avoid mold, but the plants themselves will be able to thrive alright without having to water them a whole bunch, unless your doing moss or plants that specifically need misting, you can avoid having to mist at all and thus avoid issues on the glass for viewing. Of course your going to want cross ventilation whatever route you choose.

No matter what though, with a T being in there your going to have to periodically clean the glass surface no matter what due to webbing/feces.

http://www.neherpetoculture.com/vivcaremenu

There are some really great tutorials there with a lot of information on vivariums, setting them up and such. They focus mostly on dart frogs but I think some of the same principles can be applied for T's just with of course T requirements taken into consideration. I don't know what you do or don't already know about vivariums so figured I'd provide the link, I learned a lot from those tutorials and I even talked to the people via email and ordered some things from them. They're great people, very helpful if you have questions on set ups and such. But do keep in mind they focus on dart frogs more, I don't know if they have any experience on T's.


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## The Snark (Mar 8, 2016)

NeverWet. The MSDS does not go into the toxicity of the dried product. However, anything that uses volatiles as solvent or vehicle using trifluoromethylbenzene belongs at an oil refinery and not in your precious animal tank.
Maleated Styrene-Ethylene/Butylene-Styrene Polymer (Class 3 hazard warning)

MSDS: http://www.rustoleum.com/MSDS/ENGLISH/284471.pdf

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Sam_Peanuts (Mar 8, 2016)

Silicone uses volatiles as solvent and it's in a lot of our animal tank, especially fish which are very sensitive.

Reactions: Like 1


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## The Snark (Mar 8, 2016)

Sam_Peanuts said:


> Silicone uses volatiles as solvent


Primarily acetic acid compounds. Many silicone adhesives qualify as 'food processing and storage grade usage' when fully cured. (USDA). IE Non toxic.
Not to be confused with acetylbutylnitrile adhesives, commonly known as black silicone.


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