# Heads Up - US Postal Service is enforcing the law



## paulatpetshop (Dec 6, 2009)

Hi all..!!!!

I just thought i would let everybody know that the US Postal Service is enforcing the law . I just got popped..A tip was given anonymously.

Shipping Spiders via the U.S. Postal Service is ILLEGAL. (postal code…124.293c2)
Considered a Felony and punishable by not less than $1000.00 and or not less than 1 year in jail.
Receiving spiders in the mail is punishable under the same postal code and punishable as a Felony.
I am now using other carriers.. 

Thanks,
    Paul Becker
www.petcenterusa.net


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## Tindalos (Dec 6, 2009)

that sucks man
and someone tipped lame....
its just a harmless spider

come on people.


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## paulatpetshop (Dec 6, 2009)

Funny thing is that scoepions are legal to ship in the US Mail(for medical purposes but neverthaless legal).. so are bees and other dangerous animals. No one on record has ever died from a tarantula bite. Not that i have ever heard of,but yet people die every year from bees and scorpions. But those are OK..? Sheeesh..!!
  The Law has to be changed.. It makes no sence.
  thanks,
     Paul


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## Ts are #1 (Dec 6, 2009)

With the lack of education, and lazy people laws like this are made this irks me a lot.:evil: :evil: :evil:


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## Amelia (Dec 6, 2009)

That sucks, Paul! If you need any signatures or anything, I'd be willing to help in any way(if anyone needs a signature or something, I'll do it).

Or, I will just be making my order from Paul's Fudge Kitchen next time.


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## Steve Calceatum (Dec 6, 2009)

I'm pretty sure that just because one person gets popped, that it doesn't mean EVERYONE will. But this now tips the authorities off to what hobbyists are up to, and therefore increases the chances of getting caught.

There are going to be several people out there who do not want to risk it. This begs the question: So what do we do now??? Not just for the dealers, but those who are doing trades and breeding loans?


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## Mvskokee (Dec 6, 2009)

That sucks.


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## Ts are #1 (Dec 6, 2009)

xsyorra said:


> I'm pretty sure that just because one person gets popped, that it doesn't mean EVERYONE will. But this now tips the authorities off to what hobbyists are up to, and therefore increases the chances of getting caught.
> 
> There are going to be several people out there who do not want to risk it. This begs the question: So what do we do now??? Not just for the dealers, but those who are doing trades and breeding loans?


Theres FedEx but they may change to you never know.


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## codykrr (Dec 6, 2009)

what i dont get is how can the postal service give you a felony? last time i checked regulations are not law. and the usps is not a government service but rather an affiliate.

thats like Mcdonalds giving you a littering ticket for throwing trash down in there parking lot...

also paul,  if i may ask. how did they go about this situation. meaning once you were narked on, did they just wait till you came up there to mail another package off?  then did they proceed with opening your box or what?


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## Exo (Dec 6, 2009)

So if FedEx lets you ship inverts legaly, why does everybody seem to only use the USPS? 

I have a scorp to ship someone.....I guess I'll have to use FedEx and eat any additional shipping cost. (the guy paid for USPS priority)


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## Xian (Dec 6, 2009)

codykrr said:


> what i dont get is how can the postal service give you a felony? last time i checked regulations are not law. and the usps is not a government service but rather an affiliate.


Quote:
The USPS is often mistaken for a government-owned corporation, but is legally defined as an "independent establishment of the executive branch of the Government of the United States," (39 U.S.C. § 201) as it is wholly owned by the government and controlled by the Presidential appointees and the Postmaster General. As a quasi-governmental agency, it has many special privileges, including sovereign immunity, eminent domain powers, powers to negotiate postal treaties with foreign nations, and an exclusive legal right to deliver first-class and third-class mail. Indeed, in 2004, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in a unanimous decision that the USPS was not a government-owned corporation, and therefore could not be sued under the Sherman Antitrust Act. The U.S. Supreme Court has also upheld the USPS's statutory monopoly on access to letterboxes against a First Amendment freedom of speech challenge; it thus remains illegal in the U.S. for anyone other than the employees and agents of the USPS to deliver mailpieces to letterboxes marked "U.S. Mail."

That pretty much says they can do whatever they want.


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## jayefbe (Dec 6, 2009)

codykrr said:


> what i dont get is how can the postal service give you a felony? last time i checked regulations are not law. and the usps is not a government service but rather an affiliate.
> 
> thats like Mcdonalds giving you a littering ticket for throwing trash down in there parking lot...
> 
> also paul,  if i may ask. how did they go about this situation. meaning once you were narked on, did they just wait till you came up there to mail another package off?  then did they proceed with opening your box or what?


USPS is a federal entity.  If you don't follow their regulations it's not like breaking the rules of a private company.  

I would like to know how they proceeded to 'bust' Paul.  Are they going to be lenient with charges?  Were feds waiting at the post office?  



Exo said:


> So if FedEx lets you ship inverts legaly, why does everybody seem to only use the USPS?
> 
> I have a scorp to ship someone.....I guess I'll have to use FedEx and eat any additional shipping cost. (the guy paid for USPS priority)


Price.  Nobody wants to pay $30+ on shipping for less than $100 bucks worth of T's.


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## Xian (Dec 6, 2009)

Exo said:


> So if FedEx lets you ship inverts legaly, why does everybody seem to only use the USPS?
> 
> I have a scorp to ship someone.....I guess I'll have to use FedEx and eat any additional shipping cost. (the guy paid for USPS priority)


I believe that FedEx and UPS also have cheaper three day rates as well.


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## Exo (Dec 6, 2009)

Xian said:


> I believe that FedEx and UPS also have cheaper three day rates as well.


How does FedEx's "ground" shipping compare to USPS's priority shipping price and time wise?

I am not feeling lucky enough to use the priority as planned.


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## Redbrandy00 (Dec 6, 2009)

Here's the sad point, aside from the obvious:

The USPS is only screwing themselves out of money.  The hobby may only be a small portion of the pet industry trade, but still-- there's a market here.  I would think it fantastic if some kind of deal could be struck with a Fed Ex or a like company and dealers, something mutually beneficial.  

Then the USPS could stick it.


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## codykrr (Dec 6, 2009)

ok so let me get this straight.  

while the usps is NOT a government owned thing(this i knew)  they have the right to make there own laws?:? 

i always thought the usps was regulated by the government but not run by. still im not clear as to how the usps can deem there regulations as "law".


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## nikinizor (Dec 6, 2009)

If the other 'dangerous' critters are being shipped for medicl purposes can't we include a bill of lading or something that declars them for the same...venom studies or antivenin development etc etc??? what they don't know(which is a lot obviously) won't hurt them...


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## Tindalos (Dec 6, 2009)

so it is legal 
to send them through Fedex?


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## jayefbe (Dec 6, 2009)

Exo said:


> How does FedEx's "ground" shipping compare to USPS's priority shipping price and time wise?
> 
> I am not feeling lucky enough to use the priority as planned.


FedEx prices from CA to NY:
overnight - $50
2 day - $25
express saver (3 days) - $18
Ground  (4 business days) - $9

People use USPS cuz FedEx prices for transit times suck in comparison.




Redbrandy00 said:


> Here's the sad point, aside from the obvious:
> 
> The USPS is only screwing themselves out of money.  The hobby may only be a small portion of the pet industry trade, but still-- there's a market here.  I would think it fantastic if some kind of deal could be struck with a Fed Ex or a like company and dealers, something mutually beneficial.
> 
> Then the USPS could stick it.


USPS doesn't care about the money they are losing.  They're federally subsidized, which is why their prices are better than a profit-motivated company like UPS or FedEx.  There already are deals with FedEx for shipping reptiles (shipyourreptiles.com) but even with those discounts shipping is still exorbitantly more expensive than USPS.  

Sadly, the only outcome of USPS cracking down on invert shipping is going to be a sharp decline in online sales.  The higher shipping prices are going to cut into actual sales.


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## paulatpetshop (Dec 6, 2009)

What happened was... I was given an order to cease and desist. They cited the postal code and told me i was in violation of a felony and could be prosecuted accordingly.and that i would be recieving paperwork in the mail.. if you look it up on the usps website.. it is right there.. in black and white. " No spiders shall be shipped at any time" postal code and everything.. I wasnt gonna argue with them. I just told them i got permission in 1995 to ship them  from my local office and havent had a problem since.. until someone reported on me anonymously. They also stated that my packages were subject to search and seizure.  I told them about nthe scorpions being legal and stuff.. 
  Fed ex offers rates that are only 3-5 bucks more.. with better service.. 
 Call it what you will .. if we as a group are going to make this hobby grow into a viable industry.. then we have to do things legally.. we have to be willing to follow the laws .. weather we agree with them or not.. Or try to change them.. 
 thanks,
     Paul becker

Reactions: Like 1


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## Exo (Dec 6, 2009)

jayefbe said:


> FedEx prices from CA to NY:
> overnight - $50
> 2 day - $25
> express saver (3 days) - $18
> ...


Well, the guy lives in the same state as I do and has already paid for priority shipping.......what do you think I should do?


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## Xian (Dec 6, 2009)

paulatpetshop said:


> Fed ex offers rates that are only 3-5 bucks more.. with better service..
> Call it what you will .. if we as a group are going to make this hobby grow into a viable industry.. then we have to do things legally.. we have to be willing to follow the laws .. weather we agree with them or not.. Or try to change them..
> thanks,
> Paul becker


Paul,
I totally agree with you on this!


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## Xian (Dec 6, 2009)

Exo said:


> Well, the guy lives in the same state as I do and has already paid for priority shipping.......what do you think I should do?


Exo,
I'd check the rates and go with the three day!(FedEx that is)


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## arachnorama (Dec 6, 2009)

Gosh, why the heck do so many people stay in their little ignorant worlds?  If bees and scorpions are okay, why aren't tarantulas?


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## jayefbe (Dec 6, 2009)

Thanks for the info Paul.  On the bright side, and it is a very bright side, it sounds like they aren't going to charge you.  A felony charge is nothing to sneeze at.  Plus, it sounds like if they catch anyone else sending T's they'll probably use the same methods of 'scaring' people away from it rather than pressing charges to begin with.


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## jayefbe (Dec 6, 2009)

Exo said:


> Well, the guy lives in the same state as I do and has already paid for priority shipping.......what do you think I should do?


If he's in the same state, than ground shipping might show up in 1 or 2 business days and be a lot cheaper.  Just put all the info here:
http://www.fedex.com/ratefinder/home?cc=US&language=en


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## Redneck (Dec 6, 2009)

I agree with everything that is said by Paul.. But I have only shipped through USPS.. I have also been told that shipping T's through Fedex is also illegal.. Soo who do we use? I cant say I have a business but I have sent alot of scorpions and I now have some T's that I need to get rid of.. Was I lied to about it being illegal sending through Fedex? If not who should I use?


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## Mvskokee (Dec 6, 2009)

i dont see why tarantulas should be illegal if pythons scorps and other exotics arent


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## Exo (Dec 6, 2009)

jayefbe said:


> If he's in the same state, than ground shipping might show up in 1 or 2 business days and be a lot cheaper.  Just put all the info here:
> http://www.fedex.com/ratefinder/home?cc=US&language=en


I tried it before, It said that his zip code is invalid (it's not) and wouldn't work. :wall:


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## Exo (Dec 6, 2009)

I looked at FedEx's regulations......Live animals are prohibited. 

Ohhh boy, apparently UPS won't ship them either......now what?


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## jayefbe (Dec 6, 2009)

When it comes to shipping reptiles through fedex you need to open an account and go through a certification process which allows you to ship live reptiles.  I'm not sure if they offer this same process for inverts.  In any case, the certification process takes weeks.

UPS has an agreement with shipyourreptiles.com (not fedex as I erroneously stated earlier) which allows users of the site to ship live reptiles.  I don't know if that extends to inverts as well.


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## Exo (Dec 6, 2009)

jayefbe said:


> When it comes to shipping reptiles through fedex you need to open an account and go through a certification process which allows you to ship live reptiles.  I'm not sure if they offer this same process for inverts.  In any case, the certification process takes weeks.
> 
> UPS has an agreement with shipyourreptiles.com (not fedex as I erroneously stated earlier) which allows users of the site to ship live reptiles.  I don't know if that extends to inverts as well.


I may do this in the future but for this scorpion I will try fedex. If they find out about it, at least they can't charge me with a felony since they are a private company and I'm not breaking any federal rules. 

By the way, what are the odds that they will ask what's in the package? I'm afraid they may be curious that the package is so light.


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## Twisted (Dec 13, 2009)

Kind of ironic that the USPS is the best way to ship firearms legally. I use them for that all the time.


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## whitewolf (Dec 13, 2009)

I hate hearing about someone doing this to Paul. He is really a good guy. Great prices, doesn't mind answering a question, and is always pretty quick at getting back to people. Who would pull such a dirty rat move. I posted this somewhere else but just bringing it to those who aren't on that board. I totally agree though that bees being shipped is worse any day than a T.

Another member was popped by Fed Ex while the board was down but hopefully he will log in and tell about it. I guess the only one who wants our business that we are "supposed" to use is Delta Dash but it is expensive.  A friend called ship my reptile and they said "No. But there are ways around it." to T's. This really stinks. I mean I have a male that was out on loan with 2 great people and have a male myself form someone. I was hoping to do some trades if I get some slings out of all this and toss out a couple freebies to some friends wanting to get their feet wet.

Someone suggested doing a petition but I am unsure of how to do that. I will defiantly sign it though if anyone has one out already. I could if I knew what to do but I have no idea where to start. I did forward the letter Ken made to local, state, and federal officials though. I haven't heard back from anyone yet. http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=164658

This is the last time, from what I can pull up, that some challenged the post office. It was 30 years ago in 1980. I also couldn't find any case laws. Too many illegal import cases came up. Might be cool if we could get someone with knowledge over T's, venom, and all to challenge it again. Having an average expense cost would be hard to get but being able to show how much they would be out if the entire pet trade stop using them and how much we rally spend through USPS might help sway them. Worst they can do is say no in final ruling again. Warning though their are some pretty weak and lame statements from the defense that kept from making the change but hey that was 30 years ago. http://www.usps.com/judicial/1980deci/7-135.htm

This is the postal code for those who don't know. 8.0 and 9.0 refers to us. http://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/601.htm


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## TarantulaFanBoy (Dec 14, 2009)

LOL what is the Freakin Prosecutor going to say. "This man is shipping spiders .... in the .... in the .... the MAIL! YOUR HONOR! Clearly by the evidence seen in this courtroom he is a DANGER to society. He should be given capitol Punishment and Executed Immediately."


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## Big B (Dec 14, 2009)

TarantulaFanBoy said:


> LOL what is the Freakin Prosecutor going to say. "This man is shipping spiders .... in the .... in the .... the MAIL! YOUR HONOR! Clearly by the evidence seen in this courtroom he is a DANGER to society. He should be given capitol Punishment and Executed Immediately."


Hahahaha too funny!


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## killy (Dec 14, 2009)

I've been reading this thread and if what I'm reading is correct spiders cannot be mailed, but far more dangerous and venomous creatures can be, not to mention firearms, for God's sake.  Bees I can understand - it's all about money. Also, if it's a felony, then it must be a law on the books, and not just some USPS company policy. 

Paul's right - don't violate the law, work to change it.

Here's what we do - 
1) find out who created this law and who voted for it and why - 
2) find out which legislator(s) are sympathetic to tarantula keeping (and better still, find out which legislator(s) ARE tarantula keepers) -
3) somebody with some legal smarts compose a well-reasoned letter to these legislators outlining why disciminating against spiders makes little sense, given what the law does allow to be shipped by mail or other ground transportation.  And be sure to play the "economy card":  tarantula-keeping is a lucrative business (just read all the "I'm a compulsive arachnoholic" threads!) and this is no time to be messing with the (angry) small-business owner and his/her customers. 
4) send the letter, or deliver it personally, to the legislator(s) asking that they do what they can to reverse this senseless law
5) submit the letter online so that each of us (and there are a LOT of us) can print the letter, sign it, and either mail, fax or personally deliver the letter ourselves. 

Legislators are not insensitive to an onslaught of voter concern, so if we feel strongly enough about this, we can make a difference.


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## paulatpetshop (Dec 14, 2009)

HERE  IS  THE  LETTER

LETTER TO USPS OFFICIALS OR REPRESENTATIVES & SENATORS TO ENCOURAGE REVISION OF USPS DOMESTIC “MAILABILITY” REGULATIONS REGARDING THE SHIPPING OF HARMLESS TARANTULAS

[Date]

[Your Name]
[Your Address]
[Your City, State, Zip]
[Your Email]
[Your Phone]


The Honorable [NAME OF OFFICIAL]
[House of Representatives] [or United States Senate]
[Postal address of USPS Headquarter; Room Number and Office Building of Rep or Senator]
Washington, D.C. 20515 (for House) or 20510 (for Senate)
Your reps are found here
http://www.house.gov/
Or/both
Mailing Standards
United States Postal Service
475 L'Enfant Plaza SW
Washington, DC 20260-2200

Re: Proposal to redefine and allow the shipping of tarantulas, including theraphosid spiders and other harmless pet arthropods and similar animals used for research in general from section 8.5 (Harmful Matter—General), of the USPS Domestic Mail Manual currently categorized as “harmful” in section: 601 Mailability, part “b”.

Dear Sir(s):

I’d like to propose slight changes or at least some consideration thereof regarding the “mailability” of tarantulas in USPS regulations. In short (and upon request I can provide citations, references and scientific literature supportive that) tarantulas are not harmful, nor medically significant to people. In a general sense, tarantulas (as per USPS guidelines and biological definition) are initially covered as “mailable” under the category “small, harmless cold-blooded animal”.

However, current USPS guidelines section 8.5 item “b” further defines tarantulas as not safe to ship, or as they word it, harmful, quoted as follows:

“Harmful Matter—General
Except as provided in this document, any article, composition, or material is nonmailable if it can kill or injure another or injure the mail or other property. Harmful matter includes, but is not limited to:
a. All types and classes of poisons, including controlled substances.
b. All poisonous animals except scorpions mailed for medical research purposes or for the manufacture of antivenom; all poisonous insects; all poisonous reptiles; and all types of snakes, turtles, and spiders.
c. All disease germs or scabs.
d. All explosives, flammable material, infernal machines, and mechanical, chemical, or other devices or compositions that may ignite or explode.”

Item “b”, although not technically accurate excludes tarantulas from USPS shipping because they are “poisonous” in the same sense we refer to such animals that are “venomous”. Semantics aside, tarantula venom is not considered harmful to humans and thus any live tarantula should be considered a "harmless arthropod". 

It should be noted here that the shipping of scorpions and bees are allowed under regulations for specific reasons. Despite any exceptions made by USPS to allow their shipping, bees and scorpions are certainly medically significant to humans, a fact no one can dispute. Scorpions and bees cause significant recorded numbers of human deaths annually. There are no recorded human deaths attributed to the bite of a tarantula.   

It may be noted here that tarantula venom is currently the subject of a wide variety of scientific research. Live specimens are needed at research centers. Recent studies reveal that peptides in the venom may provide the key to discovering long-range cures or treatments for MS and heart disease in humans. Tarantula venom varies widely in chemical composition and their effects on people. Other than routine concerns over a small puncture wound, bite symptoms range from none to mild swelling and pain depending upon the individual. The most important distinction for tarantulas is they do not cause human deaths. Scorpion and bee stings are accountable for many deaths, thus are more worthy of special handling procedures and earning the label “hazardous”. 

Another point to consider in these troubled economic times is the exotic pet trade. Although a small percentage of pet sales overall, the tarantula hobby as we know it depends on the ability of the pet trade and our favorite exotic animal dealers to ship animals to us safely and inexpensively on demand. Those of us participating in arthropod breeding projects, educational endeavors, and private research rely upon the postal system to ship male and female specimens of rare species. If there were no means to transport our animals safely and cheaply around the country the entire infrastructure of the hobby would collapse, bringing down small business owners as well. So, a part of this proposal to change existing regulations in favor of shipping tarantulas is meant to ensure that small businesses can continue to operate, educational/research projects can proceed, and captive breeding of livestock may continue unobstructed as well.

Most Sincerely, 


[INSERT YOUR NAME BELOW SIGNATURE]


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## Abby (Dec 14, 2009)

I mailed already, and this weekend I am going over to my parents house and ask them to sign a letter also


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## pouchedrat (Dec 15, 2009)

What I would like to know, is what do local pet stores use to acquire their tarantulas?  Or if they get them from a local shipper, where do THEY get theirs from??  

What about large-scale businesses online like Carolina biological supply (which carries T's) or LLL reptile?  What do they use to ship legally?


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## UrbanJungles (Dec 15, 2009)

pouchedrat said:


> What I would like to know, is what do local pet stores use to acquire their tarantulas?  Or if they get them from a local shipper, where do THEY get theirs from??
> 
> What about large-scale businesses online like Carolina biological supply (which carries T's) or LLL reptile?  What do they use to ship legally?


Many suppliers deliver via local trucks to pet shops. Other large scale wholesalers have UPS and FedEx Accts that allow them to ship animals via prior agreements. Lastly there is also overnight airport to airport shipping which is costly but worth it if you have a decent sized live order.


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## paulatpetshop (Dec 15, 2009)

After much research.. i have come to the conclusion that there is no legal way to ship spiders.. The closest thing  is "reptile shipping"...And we know that spiders are not reptiles.. Therefore whomever is shipping tarantulas,wheather there is reptiles in the box or not is in violation of federal law. There are no provisions for legal shipment of spiders via usps,fed ex or UPS. All will tell you that they do not ship spiders. 

postal  code…124.293c2  go to usps.com and see it in black and white


  1 there is no legal way to ship arachnids other than delta airlines.. 
  2  usps, ups,fed ex all do not allow the transportation of arachnids.
  3 shipmyreptiles.com will ship snakes via ups, because they have a permit..and .. it would be fairly easy for a private party to get permission from ups to ship reptiles including snakes, but no arachnids. However... if you shipped a parcel via ups labeled snakes it would not be legal without permission but i highly doubt it would be searched.
 4 . we need to try to change the law  because the hobby itself is at stake here.. 
     a. we can find a lawyer to challenge the postal service  pro bono
      b. we can hire one at our cost
     c. we can contact P.I.J.A.K. for help
      d. sue the postal service for damages in a class action law suit.

There is no basis for this law.. no one on record has ever been harmed by a tarantula bad enough to warrant this law. Scorpions and bees as well as disease carrying animals are transported by the USPS every day... chickens carry all kinds of diseases and mice also carry diseases.. just to name a few..
   People are killed by scorpions and bees, but yet they will transport them.  
   Tarantulas as a species are being called "harmful" and they are not.. If they were ,there would have some kind of record to substiantiate their claim. 
     There are 100's of thousands of spiders here in the US and they were transported sucessfully ,without any problems at all,Illegally. 
     The government stands to loose revenue and so does the pet industry. All because of a descrimination against arachnids,tarantulas especially. Someone has just decided to say they are harmful and no one has challenged it in recient years. The last challenge was back in 1986,or something like that. If we all stand together and organize ourselves, we can make a difference. I am sure of it.


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## flamesbane (Dec 15, 2009)

This is just a suggestion, but instead of trying to have the USPS laws changed directly why not make the carriers compete for our patronage? 

We could compile some facts about how many tarantulas are annually shipped, and how much this hobby spends on shipping. We could then set up this website with this information along with a petition for people looking to change shipping. Send all this to all the major carries and basically say "We want to do this legally please help us and we will ship all these packages via your service" Then let each carrier know that we sent this to every other carrier. With any luck one of them will bite. The economy is down, and so even though we only send a small amount of packages compared to large companies, I am sure a carrier would like the business.


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## whitewolf (Dec 15, 2009)

P.I.J.A.K. :? I'm a doof what is that.

This does sound like a good idea Paul. A carrier may be more willing to pick up the shipping if they where given the ability legally.

We need to ban together and get some quotes on good attorneys. I know locally the retainer fee on civil divorce trials begins at 3,500 to 4,000. This is going to be a federal case so the fee may be more given the cost of federal appearances and filing of papers. I'll try to contact my divorce attorney and see what steps we need to go through. Is it possible for someone to collect donations for an attorney if everyone is willing to help. Since this will effect the entire hobby.


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## flamesbane (Dec 15, 2009)

whitewolf said:


> P.I.J.A.K. :? I'm a doof what is that.
> 
> This does sound like a good idea Paul. A carrier may be more willing to pick up the shipping if they where given the ability legally.
> 
> We need to ban together and get some quotes on good attorneys. I know locally the retainer fee on civil divorce trials begins at 3,500 to 4,000. This is going to be a federal case so the fee may be more given the cost of federal appearances and filing of papers. I'll try to contact my divorce attorney and see what steps we need to go through. Is it possible for someone to collect donations for an attorney if everyone is willing to help. Since this will effect the entire hobby.


The problem would be determining WHO would collect the donations. It is very easy to make a donation via paypal.


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## Stopdroproll (Dec 15, 2009)

flamesbane said:


> The problem would be determining WHO would collect the donations. It is very easy to make a donation via paypal.


It depends, I remember a forum (I think Something Awful) had a donation account made for victims of a hurricane (I think Katrina) that was shut down because there were so many transactions to it. I don't remember what happened afterward. 

Found story. 
http://brucebeh.com/paypal-scammers.htm


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## whitewolf (Dec 15, 2009)

SDR said:


> It depends, I remember a forum (I think Something Awful) had a donation account made for victims of a hurricane (I think Katrina) that was shut down because there were so many transactions to it. I don't remember what happened afterward.
> 
> Found story.
> http://brucebeh.com/paypal-scammers.htm


Interesting. Seems as though a shipping transaction number would have to occur if too many donations were received by someone. Well that could hurt that then. Would be ok if a dealer did it and something was bought and shipped plus a donation given but potential hurt them if it was just a donation. Perhaps someone did a complaint on that account just to be rude.


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## flamesbane (Dec 15, 2009)

whitewolf said:


> Interesting. Seems as though a shipping transaction number would have to occur if too many donations were received by someone. Well that could hurt that then. Would be ok if a dealer did it and something was bought and shipped plus a donation given but potential hurt them if it was just a donation. Perhaps someone did a complaint on that account just to be rude.


People filed complaints against that account...that is why it was shut down.


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