# If I wanted one (just 1!) baboon...



## boina (May 10, 2017)

which one should I get?

Well, the next expo is coming up... in a month, ok, but I got to be prepared, right?
I'm still trying to persuade myself not to go (or buy a horse instead...), but we all know how that will go (and I can't afford the horse).
So, on top of my To Buy list is a P. rufilata, but I'm kind of thinking about getting a baboon. I don't have any typical baboon in my collection, although I've a M. balfouri group (does that count?) and I recently got an E. olivacea. I love this olivacea. So, I might get a more typical baboon - the terrestrial kind. Which one would you recommend?

- No pet hole, please, I want to see the T, if not constantly then at least once in a while.
- No horns! Those horns freak me out for some reason. I don't want a T with horns.
- No bland brown. A pretty pattern would be nice.

Any recommendations?

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## Shamrock (May 10, 2017)

I love the H maculata, although they are arboreal. Dont really know the rest that well as we are not allowed to keep most baboons here in South Africa. I think @KezyGLA wil be more of help here.

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## TownesVanZandt (May 10, 2017)

I love all my "baboon"-species, so it´s hard to pick just one, but _E.pachypus _would be a nice choice for a first one. They are incredible sweet and well-tempered for a "baboon" species . If you want something bigger, you have _P. muticus _of course.

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## Timc (May 10, 2017)

Well if you wanted just one I wouldn't get any because you'll end up going down the rabbit hole

I'm personally a fan of the classic OBT. The ones I've owned have been out quite a bit, and they're beautiful. Plus they're inexpensive so they won't hurt the horse fund too much.

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## GreyPsyche (May 10, 2017)

OBT, P Muticus, S Calceatum.

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## TownesVanZandt (May 10, 2017)

Timc said:


> Well if you wanted just one I wouldn't get any because you'll end up going down the rabbit hole
> 
> I'm personally a fan of the classic OBT. The ones I've owned have been out quite a bit, and they're beautiful. Plus they're inexpensive so they won't hurt the horse fund too much.


IME that depends on how you house them. If housed as one should African terrestrials (with lots of substrate) most of them will spend 99% of the time inside of their burrows. OBTs are incredible adaptable though, and if given less substrate, a hide and some anchor points, they will web down the whole enclosure and be more visible. They would also act more as a "jack-in-the-box" when startled, so those kind of setups comes with their own set of risks

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## KezyGLA (May 10, 2017)

Oooook.

The toughest part of this is the pet hole bit. Seeing as most baboon species are obligate burrowers.

I would say Monocentropus balfouri. They are attractive species with quite a forgiving nature. They are out on show quite regularly. They can be kept communal. They are quite good eaters too. Its gotta be one of the best.

The genus with sp. that is out on show most often is Ceratogyrus. However you dont like the horns. In which case I would recommend the Ceratogyrus meridionalis... but It is brownish! see below -

http://www.zoo-ekzo.ru/sites/defaul...ic/ceratogyrus_meridionalis.jpg?itok=QeN6N3AG


My second choice for you if you want something a little more colorful, it would have to be P. murinus OCF, RCF or UMV. These can be kept with just enough substrate to make a short burrow and some foliage of sorts around it so it can make a safe home. Housing it this way will let you be able to see it more often. And lets face it. Its a classic!

Some other species that I would recommend is Harpactira namaquensis. These are beautiful Ts and can be seen out quite a lot IME. The same goes for Harpactira baviana, Harpactira dictator and Harpactira sp. danielskuil. These can all manage quite nicely without giving generous amounts of substrate. They are all attractive sp. too!

Out of all I would say H. namaquensis for the win. Its beautiful, the colours just dont get picked up well on photo. Its ridiculous aha. It is of a more gentle disposition similar to M. balfouri. Though unlike balfouri it is less likely to bolt. They are quite active too. My oldest female has climbed out on my hands when doing maintanence many and is a breeze to put back in her home. No drama. I have never had a threat pose from any of mine. My second choice would be M. balfouri.

But hey its your decision at the end of the day. Give google a go and see what you like the look of ..

.. lets face it though, once you pop, you cant stop. The baboon bug is strong!

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## KezyGLA (May 10, 2017)

H. maculata is a beautiful arboreal baboon. Though it is very reclusive. And I would avoid the *goddess *P. muticus as it is definition of pet hole ahaha

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## basin79 (May 10, 2017)

Ruddy hell fire that's harder than Chinese algebra!!!!!!!

I'm being completely biased and although there are many absolutely beautiful baboons I'd pick Idiothele mira just for their hunting habits. They're tiny beautiful assassins.

Apologies to all those that have seen these before but tough.

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## KezyGLA (May 10, 2017)

AF H. namaquensis

View media item 37563












AF H. namaquensis



__ KezyGLA
__ Nov 11, 2016
__ 5



						I'm in love.
					




View media item 36590
View media item 36517
Juvenile 

View media item 36604

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## KezyGLA (May 10, 2017)

basin79 said:


> Ruddy hell fire that's harder than Chinese algebra!!!!!!!
> 
> I'm being completely biased and although there are many absolutely beautiful baboons I'd pick Idiothele mira just for their hunting habits. They're tiny beautiful assassins.
> 
> Apologies to all those that have seen these before but tough.


I would have mentioned this too as I love them but a trapdoor is worse than a hole

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## basin79 (May 10, 2017)

KezyGLA said:


> I would have mentioned this too as I love them but a trapdoor is worse than a hole


My lass is completely out most nights. 

Even if she wasn't I genuinely believe their hunting technique is enough to push them to first place.

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## sasker (May 10, 2017)

There are some very pretty baboons on the market. I am also researching them because I am considering taking the plunge into OW species. One that I find particularly attractive is the _Augacephalus ezendami_. What I understood so far is that they also burrow quite a lot and I am not sure if it is visible often enough (Could someone fill us in?). Also, there is a huge difference in size between the sexes. The males are so small, it is ridiculous. So if you are lucky, your sling turns out to be a female. Otherwise...

But look at those colours! Isn't it a beauty?

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## KezyGLA (May 10, 2017)

basin79 said:


> My lass is completely out most nights.
> 
> Even if she wasn't I genuinely believe their hunting technique is enough to push them to first place.


I had an af that didnt make a trapdoor. She just made a burrow in the corner of her tub and was on show pretty much always. But finding one like that is like winning the lottery. You have struck gold.


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## basin79 (May 10, 2017)

KezyGLA said:


> I had an af that didnt make a trapdoor. She just made a burroe in the corner of her tub and was on show pretty much always. But finding one like that is like winning the lottery. You have struck gold.


Ah right. Well I can only comment on my experience.

Heteroscodra muculata is the most beautiful baboon in my eyes. I get to see my lass most nights although she's extremely skittish so I'm yet to get a pic with my camera. I've just got this via my phone.

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## kevinlowl (May 10, 2017)

basin79 said:


> Heteroscodra muculata is the most beautiful baboon in my eyes.


That's probably the scariest tarantula for me. It's an african arboreal which means lightning fast defensive T with a potent venom and to top it off it looks like a Rorschach chart of death.

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## basin79 (May 10, 2017)

kevinlowl said:


> That's probably the scariest tarantula for me. It's an african arboreal which means lightning fast defensive T with a potent venom and to top it off it looks like a Rorschach chart of death.


Absolutely no need to be scared of any T. 

They ALL should be respected though.

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## WeightedAbyss75 (May 10, 2017)

Personally, I'd have to recommend either an OBT or S. cakceatum/H. mac. The OBT because my fenale is always out and is gorgeous, being bright orange with black hihlights. They grow fast and are pretty cheap, so you could buy 3-5 slings to try and get a few females  As for the arboreal baboons, I love my S. cal I got recently. They can be pet holes, but I have seen my explore quite a few times, and they are a gorgous green. H. macs are great too, just make sure if you want either of the arboreal baboons that they are 100% female. The males are very drab, being brown or black and don't really get the army green (S. cal) or bone white (H. mac) of the females. Either way, you are hard pressed to find a lot outside of that. Almost all OW are OB, just how much they do it . Also, can't recommend P. rufilata enough. Great size and beautiful colors. I'd go for a P. rufilata over almost any OW baboon

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## Chris LXXIX (May 10, 2017)

boina said:


> - No *pet hole*, please, I want to see the T, if not constantly then at least once in a while.
> 
> - No bland *brown*. A pretty pattern would be nice.



!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  <-- Eek!

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## boina (May 10, 2017)

Wow, so many great recommendations!!

@KezyGLA I already have my group of 3 M. balbouri, they were my introduction to OWs about a year ago, but I don't think they are a typical baboon (although, yes they are a baboon, I know, but not _typical)_. But I'll definitely consider the H. namaquensis and the C. meridionalis, too. A Ceratogyrus without horn sounds quite nice.

@basin79 I love the coloring of the I. mira, but I fear I might not see too much of it.

H. mac is actually a T I've always admired but I've heared they often hide a lot. And the speed and venom and skittishness combined scare me a bit - I'm a wuss, I know. Same goes for the S. cal. Also, I want a terrestrial.

I might get an OBT, though - seems an obvious choice, but again, either I might have a T that's burrowed away for most of the time or a jack-in-the-box. Both is not really what I'm looking for.

Kezy's description of the H. namaquensis as a more gentle T with a disposition like a less skittish balfouri intrigued me, though, so at the moment that seems to be my preference. And yes, I know disposition can vary.

Edit: And I just saw that @KezyGLA has some advertised on Terraristik... hmmmmm

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## basin79 (May 10, 2017)

boina said:


> Wow, so many great recommendations!!
> 
> @KezyGLA I already have my group of 3 M. balbouri, they were my introduction to OWs about a year ago, but I don't think they are a typical baboon (although, yes they are a baboon, I know, but not _typical)_. But I'll definitely consider the H. namaquensis and the C. meridionalis, too. A Ceratogyrus without horn sounds quite nice.
> 
> ...



You're definitely NOT a wuss. You're just not confident with those particular T's.

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## KezyGLA (May 10, 2017)

Chris LXXIX said:


> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  <-- Eek!


Your 2 favourite things @Chris LXXIX

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## KezyGLA (May 10, 2017)

@boina That list is a little dated. I can send a new one to you via email if you like


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## boina (May 10, 2017)

There's astonishingly little information around on H. namaquensis. How big do they get? One site said they are the biggest Harpactira?


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## Nightstalker47 (May 10, 2017)

Baboons that aren't pet holes? I think that's inevitable in one way or another. Even the arboreal baboons create a sort of hole, only with much more webbing.
If you decide to give the pet hole a try, you mineswell get an active fast growing one. My pet holes can be seen pretty often, especially at night, just need to be quiet and careful not to spook them. 

First and foremost, get that P.rufilata! 
it's a must  gotta prioritize with Ts some times...

If and when you plunge into the realm of pet holes I would get H.gigas or H.sp. Cameroon, I have had a lot of fun with these species. In comparison to my P.muticus they are out much more often. They also grow very fast and can be seen out of their burrows regularly in search of prey, my only pet holes to be seen doing this. They are super defensive, but you can rehouse in a large enclosure and they will make extensive burrows with many entrances. I think it would also add some variety to your collection, spice things up a bit, I mean everyone needs at least one burrower. And to top it off they are inexpensive, check out my big female with her phantom sac.

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## KezyGLA (May 10, 2017)

boina said:


> There's astonishingly little information around on H. namaquensis. How big do they get? One site said they are the biggest Harpactira?


They are one of the largest Harpactira next to Harpactira gigas. H. namaquensis can grow easily over 5", unlike most others from the genus.

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## KezyGLA (May 10, 2017)

Or if you like the smaller you can get Harpactira cafreriana. These have the same disposition as H. namaquensis usually. 

Adult females can max out just around the 3" mark. 

Adult female _Harpactira cafreriana












Harpactira cafreriana



 KezyGLA
 Oct 17, 2016
 2



						Female
					
















0.1 H. cafreriana



 KezyGLA
 Oct 26, 2016





_

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## KezyGLA (May 10, 2017)

There is somehing about these little ones. If you can find them for a good price then you may like them too. 

1.1 H. caf - juv pair
https://instagram.com/p/BT679vKFqhe/

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## Xafron (May 10, 2017)

I was literally going to say Monocentropus balfouri lol.  Before I knew to avoid baboons and OW as a first, that was one I had looked at.  Having no experience, I was making the suggestion purely on appearance and the words of Tom Moran saying his are calmer than other baboons*  *

Funny that you say the horns creep you out...any idea why?


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## The Grym Reaper (May 10, 2017)

kevinlowl said:


> That's probably the scariest tarantula for me. It's an african arboreal which means lightning fast defensive T with a potent venom and to top it off *it looks like a Rorschach chart of death*.


That's pretty much why it's one of the few OW species that I want to own at some point... In the distant future... If I ever feel confident enough to own one.

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## boina (May 10, 2017)

KezyGLA said:


> There is somehing about these little ones. If you can find them for a good price then you may like them too.
> 
> 1.1 H. caf - juv pair
> https://instagram.com/p/BT679vKFqhe/


You are kidding, right? I did a quick search on Terraristik and there's someone selling a sexed female for 360 Euro ! Er....no. Definitely no.

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## boina (May 10, 2017)

Xafron said:


> I was literally going to say Monocentropus balfouri lol.  Before I knew to avoid baboons and OW as a first, that was one I had looked at.  Having no experience, I was making the suggestion purely on appearance and the words of Tom Moran saying his are calmer than other baboons*  *
> 
> Funny that you say the horns creep you out...any idea why?


I don't know. I think the horns look like they don't belong there. It's just me .

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## GreyPsyche (May 10, 2017)

Pretty sure all baboons are either arboreal or FOSSORIAL, AKA pet hole...

With the exception of the already mentioned OBT and M Balfouri. You don't see many strictly terrestrial OWers.


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## boina (May 10, 2017)

@KezyGLA Btw, how's the disposition of those dark P. murinus? Are they the same as OBTs? They look nice and they are by far not as expensive as the Harpactiras, and one can actually find and get them, too. You seem to be nearly the only one selling H. namaquensis around here  But I'm still thinking about that namaquensis...


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## KezyGLA (May 10, 2017)

boina said:


> You are kidding, right? I did a quick search on Terraristik and there's someone selling a sexed female for 360 Euro ! Er....no. Definitely no.


Ja, ze Germans are a little iffy (yourself not included obviously ). I got told off for messing with their monopoly for selling L3 for £65 a go, when they were selling L1 for 100€

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## KezyGLA (May 10, 2017)

boina said:


> @KezyGLA Btw, how's the disposition of those dark P. murinus? Are they the same as OBTs? They look nice and they are by far not as expensive as the Harpactiras, and one can actually find and get them, too. You seem to be nearly the only one selling H. namaquensis around here  But I'm still thinking about that namaquensis...


The murinus of Botswana/Kigoma and North Kenya (all 3 under DCF) are easy going compared to the RCF, OCF and UMV. They are more skittish. They are also semi-arboreal, dont tend to dig when older and are much less of a pet hole than the afore mentioned.

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## ledzeppelin (May 10, 2017)

I vote H. mac. S. calceatum freaks me out because of their reputation to have the worst venom there is >< I'm sure that H.mac is not far behind tho.

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## KezyGLA (May 10, 2017)

ledzeppelin said:


> I vote H. mac. S. calceatum freaks me out because of their reputation to have the worst venom there is >< I'm sure that H.mac is not far behind tho.


I think both are pretty much the same. Those west Africans are notorious

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## ledzeppelin (May 10, 2017)

KezyGLA said:


> I think both are pretty much the same. Those west Africans are notorious


Yeah.. I dread the day the bite of an OW happens.. I'd rather survive the P. murinus' shot of pain than a pokie tho.. Pokies mess you up for weeks ><


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## boina (May 10, 2017)

KezyGLA said:


> Ja, ze Germans are a little iffy (yourself not included obviously ). I got told off for messing with their monopoly for selling L3 for £65 a go, when they were selling L1 for 100€


Yeah, I've long suspected something like that...


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## Thistles (May 10, 2017)

No one has suggested Harpactira pulchripes yet? Mine are always out. They were flighty when small but are pretty mellow when they get older.

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## boina (May 10, 2017)

Thistles said:


> No one has suggested Harpactira pulchripes yet? Mine are always out. They were flighty when small but are pretty mellow when they get older.


But they are still hard to get and expensive - although not as crazy expensive as the really rare Harpactiras, obviously. It's definitely a spider to keep in mind.


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## Trenor (May 10, 2017)

basin79 said:


> My lass is completely out most nights.
> 
> Even if she wasn't I genuinely believe their hunting technique is enough to push them to first place.


I sometimes don't see mine for weeks. They are fun to have but not if your not looking for a pet hole.

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## Trenor (May 10, 2017)

Thistles said:


> No one has suggested Harpactira pulchripes yet? Mine are always out. They were flighty when small but are pretty mellow when they get older.


Mine are always out too. A lot more than my M.balfouri or most of my other baboons.

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## cold blood (May 10, 2017)

The 2 that come to mind first when thinking of a baboon that's typically visible are...

1. * C. marshalli*.   Beautiful, unique, spectacular hunters and reasonably priced...dang they just look so good.













Ceratogyrus marshalli



__ cold blood
__ Jan 13, 2017
__ 2
__
ceratogyrus
ceratogyrus cornuatus
ceratogyrus marshalli
female
great horned baboon tarantula
marshalli
mature female
straight horned baboon tarantula
straighthorned tarantula




						marshalli
					




2.* A. ezendami*_._   Gorgeous, one of the prettiest carapaces you will _ever_ see.   Small ones grow slow and are unspectacular eaters, but juvies and adults are excellent eaters and theyre typically more easy going than other baboons.  They are also not outrageously priced.












ezendami



__ cold blood
__ Sep 12, 2016
__ 7



						A. ezendami female

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## KezyGLA (May 10, 2017)

The only reason I didnt mention H. pulchripes is because the 4 females I have are pretty evil.

@ledzeppelin a murinus bite will nip just as much as a pokie bite would

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## boina (May 10, 2017)

@cold blood  wow, that ezendami does look good!- But the C. marshalli has a horn.  No horns, please .

@KezyGLA  I lied - it's not p. murinus dcf, but bcf, that is offered frequently and cheap. Man, those murinus cfs are confusing! Will I like a bcf?

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## Thistles (May 10, 2017)

KezyGLA said:


> The only reason I didnt mention H. pulchripes is because the 4 females I have are pretty evil.


I have one that's like a Brachy. I've tried to move her by nudging and prodding, gotten fed up with her refusal to move, and picked her up. She's like a pretty pet rock.

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## KezyGLA (May 10, 2017)

boina said:


> @KezyGLA  Will I like a bcf?


BCF = *Brown *Color form. 

Yeah you'd like them though! They sure are pretty. I'm not just talking murinus up or anything but hey, I could sell life insurance to a dead guy

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## Chris LXXIX (May 10, 2017)

KezyGLA said:


> Your 2 favourite things @Chris LXXIX


You can say that  this thread without the *Goddess *0.1 _Pelinobius muticus_ PBUH (Peace Be Upon Her) is like Vilnius Vodka without Iran caviar. 

My heart, my poor weak heart... please, *Goddess**, forgive thy heresy 


Anyway there's only two persons that can understand my feelings, now:

- Liz Taylor former husbands.
- The Librarian of Discworld in a "no Monkey" moment.

 

* 0.1 _Pelinobius muticus_ PBUH (Peace Be Upon Her)

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## Timc (May 10, 2017)

KezyGLA said:


> Ja, ze Germans are a little iffy (yourself not included obviously ). I got told off for messing with their monopoly for selling L3 for £65 a go, when they were selling L1 for 100€


Kraftwerk rules.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Grimmdreadly (May 10, 2017)

boina said:


> which one should I get?
> 
> Well, the next expo is coming up... in a month, ok, but I got to be prepared, right?
> I'm still trying to persuade myself not to go (or buy a horse instead...), but we all know how that will go (and I can't afford the horse).
> ...


H. Pulchripes, E. Pachypus, or H.maculata

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## Pennywise (May 11, 2017)

The H. Maculatas are beautful and their design is complex and fascinating.


	

		
			
		

		
	
 This is mine, but someone else has it now if it is still alive.

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## ledzeppelin (May 11, 2017)

KezyGLA said:


> @ledzeppelin a murinus bite will nip just as much as a pokie bite would


I luckily don't have any OW bite experience, but all reports that I've read about the people who got tagged by larger pokies reported effects lasting for weeks, whereas people who got bitten by a murinus reported excruciating pain that subsided within max few days. Again, I have no experience


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## Andrea82 (May 11, 2017)

After receiving mine yesterday I'd definitely recommend the A.ezendami or A.junodi. They are stunning! More out and about than a typical burrowers too. E.pachypus is also nice, and I see mine out every evening. She has a great feeding response too, tackling and wrestling her prey down . 

@KezyGLA well, the Germans no longer have the monopoly with the rise of the Polish people. 
I'm disgusted that someone actually told you off though. Keeping prices high apparently is more important than availability.

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## boina (May 11, 2017)

Andrea82 said:


> After receiving mine yesterday I'd definitely recommend the A.ezendami or A.junodi. They are stunning! More out and about than a typical burrowers too. E.pachypus is also nice, and I see mine out every evening. She has a great feeding response too, tackling and wrestling her prey down .
> 
> @KezyGLA well, the Germans no longer have the monopoly with the rise of the Polish people.
> I'm disgusted that someone actually told you off though. Keeping prices high apparently is more important than availability.


That's the third time someone mentioned E. pachypus. I might have a look around for them, but I think I will be going for something with more pattern on their carapace and butts. That definitely includes the Augacephaluses. H. mac does look fantastic , but I'm not buying any T I feel kind of nervous about, behaviourwise. I simply don't need that kind of thrill.

In the end I guess it will come down to availability and prices, and that, unfortunately, will in all likelihood exclude those Harpactiras - rare and expensive - although if I see a Harpactira namaquensis at the expo you bet I'll grab it up, and if I see a reasonably priced 0.1 H. pulchripes... yeah, right.
That leaves me looking for Augacephalus and P. murinus bcf  and maybe that Ceratogyrus without horns, but I think that qualifies as rare, too.

Yes, there's a group of German vendors - big vendors - that I've long suspected of having questionable buisiness practices. I try to stay away from them and buy from others - and there _are_ others.

Edit: And Augacephalus is rare, too , though reasonably priced.

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## Xafron (May 11, 2017)

boina said:


> I think I will be going for something with more pattern on their carapace and butts.


While no longer classified as baboons, mandrills might be exactly what you are looking for.

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## Andrea82 (May 11, 2017)

boina said:


> That's the third time someone mentioned E. pachypus. I might have a look around for them, but I think I will be going for something with more pattern on their carapace and butts. That definitely includes the Augacephaluses. H. mac does look fantastic , but I'm not buying any T I feel kind of nervous about, behaviourwise. I simply don't need that kind of thrill.
> 
> In the end I guess it will come down to availability and prices, and that, unfortunately, will in all likelihood exclude those Harpactiras - rare and expensive - although if I see a Harpactira namaquensis at the expo you bet I'll grab it up, and if I see a reasonably priced 0.1 H. pulchripes... yeah, right.
> That leaves me looking for Augacephalus and P. murinus bcf  and maybe that Ceratogyrus without horns, but I think that qualifies as rare, too.
> ...


Agreed on the H.mac. I wouldn't recommend that species as a first baboon to anyone, and I doubt I'll ever get one myself. 
A.ezendami/junodi can be a bit more difficult to find, but I think they are available in Germany. 
I mainly get my spiders from Netherlands-based Polish breeders and from the Belgium Tarantula Breeding Team. I can certainly recommend these, they ship to Germany too

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## KezyGLA (May 11, 2017)

If she doesnt want reclusive, feisty T with potent venom *that isnt an arboreal * then I really dont think H. mac is the best choice. It has been mentioned here so many times aha.
Yes it is cheap and readily available but I dont think its what @boina is looking for.

If its cheap and cheerful then A. ezendami or C. meridionalis are easy available and dirt cheap. They dont tend to have highly defensive disposition. My meridionalis was quite the sweetheart and I am sure that goes for most ezendami.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


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## sasker (May 11, 2017)

I have been looking for a vendor that sells E. pachypus, but I don't see it for sale anywhere in the EU. Does anyone know if they are actually readily available in Europe?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Andrea82 (May 11, 2017)

KezyGLA said:


> If she doesnt want reclusive, feisty T with potent venom *that isnt an arboreal * then I really dont think H. mac is the best choice. It has been mentioned here so many times aha.
> Yes it is cheap and readily available but I dont think its what @boina is looking for.
> 
> If its cheap and cheerful then A. ezendami or C. meridionalis are easy available and dirt cheap. They dont tend to have highly defensive disposition. My meridionalis was quite the sweetheart and I am sure that goes for most ezendami.


Don't know about the UK, but A.ezendami is not dirt cheap, and junodi is actually  expensive here. 

@sasker 
Keep your eyes open, they are here.. i waited half a year to get one, but they do appear

Reactions: Helpful 2


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## KezyGLA (May 11, 2017)

If only someone that ships internationally was selling H. namaquensis cheaper than the folk from the mainland

Reactions: Like 1


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## sasker (May 11, 2017)

Andrea82 said:


> Keep your eyes open, they are here..


I will keep my eyes peeled then. They are worth the wait. Thanks!


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## boina (May 11, 2017)

Andrea82 said:


> Don't know about the UK, but A.ezendami is not dirt cheap, and junodi is actually  expensive here.
> 
> @sasker
> Keep your eyes open, they are here.. i waited half a year to get one, but they do appear


Anything that's under 100 Euro for a sexed female is reasonable in my book. I've seen both Augacephalus for 50 - that's cheap . But those Harpactira prices are really through the roof.

And by now I really want a C. meridionalis. There isn't any available right now, but I'll keep looking.

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## ledzeppelin (May 11, 2017)

boina said:


> Anything that's under 100 Euro for a sexed female is reasonable in my book. I've seen both Augacephalus for 50 - that's cheap . But those Harpactira prices are really through the roof.
> 
> And by now I really want a C. meridionalis. There isn't any available right now, but I'll keep looking.


I know a Croatian breeder who lives in Germany. If I spot it on his list I'll hook you up

Reactions: Like 2


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## KezyGLA (May 11, 2017)

Andrea82 said:


> Don't know about the UK, but A.ezendami is not dirt cheap, and junodi is actually  expensive here


A. edenzami is fairly cheap here and can get sub female around £40-£50. Young females go for £35. 

A. junodi on the other hand is from SA. Meaning adults are smuggled if wild caught and captive breedings rare. This usually makes aquiring CB of this species a pricey task.

A. breyeri is a must for me <3

Reactions: Like 1


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## cold blood (May 11, 2017)

Pennywise said:


> The H. Maculatas are beautful and their design is complex and fascinating.
> View attachment 239852
> 
> 
> ...


And theyre virtual ghosts...op wants a baboon that's visible.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## KezyGLA (May 11, 2017)

boina said:


> And by now I really want a C. meridionalis. There isn't any available right now, but I'll keep looking.


I will keep an eye out for C. merid at this end for you too 

Here is my lady




She needs a moult in this pic aha

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## Chris LXXIX (May 11, 2017)

Another you should check, boina, IMO is _Ceratogyrus sanderi_. They don't have a horn, but a somewhat 'plug', instead

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## KezyGLA (May 11, 2017)

Chris LXXIX said:


> Another you should check, boina, IMO is _Ceratogyrus sanderi_. They don't have a horn, but a somewhat 'plug', instead


True sanderi yes! Good suggestion but hobby form is a little close to brachycephalus 

View media item 39196

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## boina (May 11, 2017)

Chris LXXIX said:


> Another you should check, boina, IMO is _Ceratogyrus sanderi_. They don't have a horn, but a somewhat 'plug', instead


Pretty colors, really pretty, but strange "plug". Nope, meridionalis is it

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## Andrea82 (May 11, 2017)

KezyGLA said:


> A. edenzami is fairly cheap here and can get sub female around £40-£50. Young females go for £35.
> 
> A. junodi on the other hand is from SA. Meaning adults are smuggled if wild caught and captive breedings rare. This usually makes aquiring CB of this species a pricey task.
> 
> A. breyeri is a must for me <3


Yeah, my junodi is a large sling/small juvenile CB female and was 50 bucks. Ezendami is a young adult female and was 50 as well. I need to get used to larger-spider-prices


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## Nightstalker47 (May 11, 2017)

Another great option (although it can be a pet hole) is P.lugardi, the creamy white coloration make them super cool looking, even though they spend most of their time hidden it's awesome to see the T pop out of the burrow for food and quickly run back in.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2


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## KezyGLA (May 11, 2017)

Nightstalker47 said:


> Another great option (although it can be a pet hole) is P.lugardi, the creamy white coloration make them super cool looking, even though they spend most of their time hidden it's awesome to see the T pop out of the burrow for food and quickly run back in.


A very attractive and underrated sp. 

However, they are often act like the devil itself

Reactions: Funny 1


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## KezyGLA (May 11, 2017)

I introduce to you...

_Pterinochilus lugardi 

_

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## Arachnomaniac19 (May 11, 2017)

My Hysterocrates gigas is ALWAYS out. I see her more than my albo. Her and my H. sp. Nigeria or Cameroon (one of them) are out 70% of the time.

Reactions: Like 2


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## KezyGLA (May 11, 2017)

Arachnomaniac19 said:


> My Hysterocrates gigas is ALWAYS out. I see her more than my albo. Her and my H. sp. Nigeria or Cameroon (one of them) are out 70% of the time.


Your Hysterocrates are broken

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## boina (May 12, 2017)

KezyGLA said:


> I introduce to you...
> 
> _Pterinochilus lugardi
> View attachment 239909
> _


 - I'm not going anywhere near a tarantula like that!!!

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 5


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## Grimmdreadly (May 12, 2017)

boina said:


> - I'm not going anywhere near a tarantula like that!!!


That's the general baboon temperament. The only ones that are more laid back are M.Balfouri, I.Mira, and E.Pachypus


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## Ungoliant (May 12, 2017)

boina said:


> - I'm not going anywhere near a tarantula like that!!!


It just wants to hug you.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Grimmdreadly (May 12, 2017)

Ungoliant said:


> It just wants to hug you.


Right! It just wants to be fraaaands

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 4


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## KezyGLA (May 12, 2017)

Grimmdreadly said:


> That's the general baboon temperament. The only ones that are more laid back are M.Balfouri, I.Mira, and E.Pachypus


I agree all baboon species have the ability to turn a little nasty. Though when comes to the demons of the wonderful world of _Harpactirinae, Pterinochilus _takes the crown

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Grimmdreadly (May 12, 2017)

KezyGLA said:


> I agree all baboon species have the ability to turn a little nasty. Though when comes to the demons of the wonderful world of _Harpactirinae, Pterinochilus _takes the crown


Truth, however, a newly disturbed Pelinobus is right on its heals. And being a bit larger is more intimidating

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## ledzeppelin (May 12, 2017)

that croatian guy has a deal on lugardi. 80€ for 2 males and a fem

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## Grimmdreadly (May 12, 2017)

ledzeppelin said:


> that croatian guy has a deal on lugardi. 80€ for 2 males and a fem


That's a sweet deal


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## ledzeppelin (May 12, 2017)

Grimmdreadly said:


> That's a sweet deal


yeah but only if you decide to breed

Reactions: Agree 1


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## KezyGLA (May 12, 2017)

Are they adults? Here would be AF £30 and males £15 ea.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Grimmdreadly (May 12, 2017)

ledzeppelin said:


> yeah but only if you decide to breed


To me there is no reason to have an animal if you don't breed it at least once


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## Thistles (May 12, 2017)

Grimmdreadly said:


> To me there is no reason to have an animal if you don't breed it at least once


If you said "tarantula" I'd agree. Please don't breed things like dogs and cats, though. There are WAY too many of them.

Reactions: Agree 3 | Funny 1


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## Grimmdreadly (May 12, 2017)

Thistles said:


> If you said "tarantula" I'd agree. Please don't breed things like dogs and cats, though. There are WAY too many of them.


I don't keep those kinds of animals. I keep snakes, true spiders, and tarantulas.
I like dogs and cats, but I'm not home enough to have either. If I did own either they'd be fixed shelter rescues

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## boina (May 12, 2017)

Grimmdreadly said:


> That's the general baboon temperament. The only ones that are more laid back are M.Balfouri, I.Mira, and E.Pachypus


Oh, come on, there are at least some nuances in behaviour. Not every baboon will climb out of his box to sit on my lab and threaten me

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## Grimmdreadly (May 12, 2017)

boina said:


> Oh, come on, there are at least some nuances in behaviour. Not every baboon will climb out of his box to sit on my lab and threaten me


Not every baboon, only the living ones

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## basin79 (May 12, 2017)

Just posted this on my thread but I'll post it here too seeing as I recommended one.

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## cold blood (May 12, 2017)

Grimmdreadly said:


> That's the general baboon temperament. The only ones that are more laid back are M.Balfouri, I.Mira, and E.Pachypus


I. mira _might_ be threat posturing all day long, we'd never know.  My I. mira enclosure looks like its never seen a living thing...a jar of dirt, if you will.  Still love it even though I see it for 37 seconds a year...definitely the easiest fossorial to keep.

M. balfouri












Monocentropus balfouri Threat



__ cold blood
__ Nov 11, 2016
__ 5
__
balfouri
juvenile
monocentropus
monocentropus balfouri
socotra island blue baboon tarantula
threat







Like ya said, if they're alive, you may see a threat posture.

IME A. ezendami are pretty chill compared to my other baboons....but still....

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## Grimmdreadly (May 12, 2017)

cold blood said:


> I. mira _might_ be threat posturing all day long, we'd never know.  My I. mira enclosure looks like its never seen a living thing...a jar of dirt, if you will.  Still love it even though I see it for 37 seconds a year...definitely the easiest fossorial to keep.
> 
> M. balfouri
> 
> ...


The only times I got threat postures from my Ezendami where when I got her home and then two years later when I sold her. Of course I only saw more than her palps and front legs about 3 times


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## Grimmdreadly (May 12, 2017)

cold blood said:


> I. mira _might_ be threat posturing all day long, we'd never know.  My I. mira enclosure looks like its never seen a living thing...a jar of dirt, if you will.  Still love it even though I see it for 37 seconds a year...definitely the easiest fossorial to keep.
> 
> M. balfouri
> 
> ...


The most docile baboon I ever had was an H.mac. I got her when I was just getting into baboons and she liked to stay visible for some odd reason. She even allowed me to hand transfer her when she needed an enclo upgrade( this was done while wearing a welding glove, with a catch cup handy. Mama raised a risk taker, but not an utter fool). The only time I received a threat posture and a faux strike was when I came in to feed the tarantulas and she had sealed herself out of her burrow/hide. I guess the vibrations of my steps spooked her. 

Please note: This was one H.Maculata out of the 10 I have owned. Please do not handle, pet, or attempt to kiss your baboons. Baboons will eff you the eff up. This H.mac was broken. It must have thought it was an E.campestratus. H.Maculata, like most baboons, are no stranger to violence when they are pressed by larger animals, males of their species, prey animals, falling water, a gentle breeze from a ceiling fan, or Gilbert Gottfried's voice. Please do not handle them. 

She passed sadly, most likely from old age as she was a large adult when I purchased her.

Reactions: Funny 6


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## cold blood (May 12, 2017)

Grimmdreadly said:


> or Gilbert Gottfried's voice

Reactions: Like 1


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## viper69 (May 13, 2017)

boina said:


> which one should I get?
> 
> Well, the next expo is coming up... in a month, ok, but I got to be prepared, right?
> I'm still trying to persuade myself not to go (or buy a horse instead...), but we all know how that will go (and I can't afford the horse).
> ...


H. gabonensis or P. rufi. I owned a male P. rufi, gorgeous.

Reactions: Like 2


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## viper69 (May 13, 2017)

boina said:


> I love the coloring of the I. mira, but I fear I might not see too much of it.


You won't. I saw Ceratogyrus species far more than my I. mira. However compared to other owners I see mine A LOT.

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## LirvA (May 13, 2017)

I'm really itching to pull the trigger on a C. darlingi and P. Murinus

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## mistertim (May 13, 2017)

Thistles said:


> No one has suggested Harpactira pulchripes yet? Mine are always out. They were flighty when small but are pretty mellow when they get older.


Agreed. My little H. pulchripes is pretty much always out and about. A little skittish since it is still pretty young but I've never seen a single threat posture from it. I actually just recently rehoused and it gave me no problems at all. They are a bit expensive but the price is going down some and they're also gorgeous.

Reactions: Like 5


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## efmp1987 (Oct 5, 2017)

I loved reading this thread. Thanks!

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## clive 82 (Oct 5, 2017)

efmp1987 said:


> I loved reading this thread. Thanks!


I agree, its been really helpful as I'm thinking of getting my first OW soon, in particular a baboon. I think when the time comes its either A endazami, E pachypus or a Ceratogyrus species.


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## Andrea82 (Oct 5, 2017)

clive 82 said:


> I agree, its been really helpful as I'm thinking of getting my first OW soon, in particular a baboon. I think when the time comes its either A endazami, E pachypus or a Ceratogyrus species.


From those three, definitely A.ezendami. My girl is as sweet as can be, just a little skittish sometimes. Got five or so threatpostures from my E.pachypus, of which she was slapping the floor twice because so mad...

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## clive 82 (Oct 5, 2017)

Andrea82 said:


> From those three, definitely A.ezendami. My girl is as sweet as can be, just a little skittish sometimes. Got five or so threatpostures from my E.pachypus, of which she was slapping the floor twice because so mad...


Plus the markings of A. endazami are quite stunning. As it will be my first OW not sure about the temperament of Ceratogyrus?

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## Andrea82 (Oct 5, 2017)

clive 82 said:


> Plus the markings of A. endazami are quite stunning. As it will be my first OW not sure about the temperament of Ceratogyrus?


I have no experience with Ceratogyrus. From what I've gathered that genus is more defensive.
A.ezendami are stunning. I've had mine for like half a year now, and still go completely squeeeee when I open her enclosure and see her. She's always visible too. She opened one corner of substrate as a burrow but always sits at the opening, completely out. We play 'catch the mealie', and she never missed one

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## awiec (Oct 5, 2017)

clive 82 said:


> Plus the markings of A. endazami are quite stunning. As it will be my first OW not sure about the temperament of Ceratogyrus?


Ceratogyrus are pretty chill, I think I only got two threat poses in the four years I had my AF C.darlingi; one was from me accidentally breathing on her and the other was packing her into a deli to sell her.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Jones0911 (Oct 5, 2017)

boina said:


> which one should I get?
> 
> Well, the next expo is coming up... in a month, ok, but I got to be prepared, right?
> I'm still trying to persuade myself not to go (or buy a horse instead...), but we all know how that will go (and I can't afford the horse).
> ...


OBT gorgeous fiesty and fast growing like the others.

Or get a H pulchripes I think those are baboons (someone correct me please) they have pretty blue legs even as slings

Reactions: Like 1


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## Nightstalker47 (Oct 5, 2017)

clive 82 said:


> Plus the markings of A. endazami are quite stunning. As it will be my first OW not sure about the temperament of Ceratogyrus?


My Ceratogyrus are evil, among the most defensive spiders I've seen. I had 2" C.marshalli threat posture the other day when I opened her enclosure. They don't hesitate to bite either, but of course individual temperaments vary. Keep your fingers far away and always use tongs.


Jones0911 said:


> OBT gorgeous fiesty and fast growing like the others.
> 
> Or get a H pulchripes I think those are baboons (someone correct me please) they have pretty blue legs even as slings


They are indeed baboons.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Jones0911 (Oct 5, 2017)

Here's a photo of my 0.0.1 H pulchripes still a sling but you can see the blue very easily!!

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## Nightstalker47 (Oct 5, 2017)

Jones0911 said:


> Here's a photo of my 0.0.1 H pulchripes still a sling but you can see the blue very easily!!


More black then blue at that size, mine had a similar look post molt. The blue accentuates as the spider grows.

Reactions: Like 5


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## efmp1987 (Oct 5, 2017)

I have a 0.1 M. balfouri. Shes the ultimate display baboon. Yesterday she spent 5 hours basking on her cork. Doesnt run for her burrow when you disturb her, but is quick to stridulate even when appraoched by a cricket. Im considering getting a pulchripes to accompany her.


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## Swoop (Oct 5, 2017)

What exactly makes a T a "baboon"?


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## cold blood (Oct 5, 2017)

I'm with nightstalker.....while Ceratogryus are an easy keep, mine are defensive...well marshalli not so much, but all my darlingi are _quick_ to posture.













so happy



__ cold blood
__ May 28, 2017
__ 5
__
ceratogyrus
ceratogyrus bechuanicus
ceratogyrus darlingi
curvedhorn tarantula
darlingi
threat




						I dare you to re house me!  I'm staying.

---

young female darlingi
					
















0823150020



__ cold blood
__ Jan 28, 2016
__ 3
__
ceratogyrus
darlingi




						darlingi
					




Conversely, I have raised _a lot_ of ezendami (half of an entire sac, plus many others) and through all of them, I had one that gave threat postures regularly and one that did it once during a re-house, not a single threat posture from _any_ of the others....IMO they're one of the calmest, most easy going baboons (never had lugardi, supposedly theyre on par).....theyre almost like Brachys where they stubbornly stand their ground...but unlike a Brachy, once they have had enough, they _will_ run, and like any baboon, they are fast when they want to be.

One of the best looking carapaces around though....and I like stylin' carapaces.













20170429_002455



__ cold blood
__ Apr 29, 2017
__ 2



						A. ezendami

just over 1"
					
















Resized952017030795222820



__ cold blood
__ Mar 8, 2017
__ 3


















Resized952017022195001014



__ cold blood
__ Feb 21, 2017
__ 3



						AF A. ezendami eating a dubia.

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 1 | Informative 1


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## dangerforceidle (Oct 5, 2017)

Swoop said:


> What exactly makes a T a "baboon"?


Similar to a generic description of large tarantulas from South America being "bird eaters," tarantulas from Africa are commonly referred to as baboons.  I believe true "baboons" are family Harpactirinae within the taxonomic structure.  There is discussion about where the name 'baboon' came from in relation to tarantulas, but language is weird sometimes so it may never be fully settled.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Walker253 (Oct 5, 2017)

She was a little angry



__ Walker253
__ Oct 5, 2017
__ 12



						She laid on her back and held the pose
					




OBT, ALL DAY LONG

Reactions: Like 2


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## cold blood (Oct 5, 2017)

dangerforceidle said:


> There is discussion about where the name 'baboon' came from in relation to tarantulas, but language is weird sometimes so it may never be fully settled.


My understanding is that it comes from the fact that their legs look similar to baboon fingers.


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## cold blood (Oct 5, 2017)

Swoop said:


> What exactly makes a T a "baboon"?


Being African.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## clive 82 (Oct 5, 2017)

Andrea82 said:


> I have no experience with Ceratogyrus. From what I've gathered that genus is more defensive.
> A.ezendami are stunning. I've had mine for like half a year now, and still go completely squeeeee when I open her enclosure and see her. She's always visible too. She opened one corner of substrate as a burrow but always sits at the opening, completely out. We play 'catch the mealie', and she never missed one


That's brilliant! Being fossorial do you keep yours on particually deep substrate?


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## clive 82 (Oct 5, 2017)

awiec said:


> Ceratogyrus are pretty chill, I think I only got two threat poses in the four years I had my AF C.darlingi; one was from me accidentally breathing on her and the other was packing her into a deli to sell her.


I have heard they are one of the better starter baboons. I love the markings they have.


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## efmp1987 (Oct 5, 2017)

Swoop said:


> What exactly makes a T a "baboon"?



The only thing they have in common that I can observe [due to my complete lack of experience with them] is their tendency to flash their fangs when faced by a would-be attacker.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Andrea82 (Oct 6, 2017)

clive 82 said:


> That's brilliant! Being fossorial do you keep yours on particually deep substrate?


When I just had her I gave her a tub with three times her legspan deep. But she seemed lost in that enclosure, it was as wide as it was deep but she kept wandering around instead and hiding in the flowers. So I decided to transfer her to an enclosure with 1,5 times her legspan deep. She can still burrow but her enclosure doesn't use up as much space as the previous one. She completely ignored her starter burrow and dug one out for herself within a few days.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## basin79 (Oct 6, 2017)

basin79 said:


> Ah right. Well I can only comment on my experience.
> 
> Heteroscodra muculata is the most beautiful baboon in my eyes. I get to see my lass most nights although she's extremely skittish so I'm yet to get a pic with my camera. I've just got this via my phone.


I did manage to get some camera pics of my girl. Only fair to post them up to show her off properly.

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## awiec (Oct 6, 2017)

clive 82 said:


> I have heard they are one of the better starter baboons. I love the markings they have.


I found her to be pretty easy to work with and saw her often, some of the other suggestions will build themselves a tunnel and you'll barely see them. Also you can get sub-adults/adults for cheap if you go to expos, I got mine with a cage for $60, as they are quite easy to breed. I also have/had M.balfouri, P.muticus, H.pulchripes and H.marksi; the C.darlingi was the easiest the deal with out of the group.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## clive 82 (Oct 6, 2017)

awiec said:


> I found her to be pretty easy to work with and saw her often, some of the other suggestions will build themselves a tunnel and you'll barely see them. Also you can get sub-adults/adults for cheap if you go to expos, I got mine with a cage for $60, as they are quite easy to breed. I also have/had M.balfouri, P.muticus, H.pulchripes and H.marksi; the C.darlingi was the easiest the deal with out of the group.


That's good to know. Maybe Ill get both!


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## efmp1987 (Oct 6, 2017)

basin79 said:


> I did manage to get some camera pics of my girl. Only fair to post them up to show her off properly.



Love the markings of this species. Their reputation is warranted however, with the amount of bite reports available for reading.


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## basin79 (Oct 6, 2017)

efmp1987 said:


> Love the markings of this species. Their reputation is warranted however, with the amount of bite reports available for reading.


Act daft and get bit? I feel that's commonsense.

My lass like my other tarantulas has never charged me. An inverts reputation should be measured on their keepers stupidity.

Reactions: Like 3 | Award 1


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## efmp1987 (Oct 6, 2017)

basin79 said:


> Act daft and get bit? I feel that's commonsense.
> 
> My lass like my other tarantulas has never charged me. An inverts reputation should be measured on their keepers stupidity.



The same words were probably spoken by the very keepers who got bitten. What I was trying to say is H. maculata, (along S. calceatum) even by Old World standards, is definitely on a caliber of its own.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## basin79 (Oct 6, 2017)

efmp1987 said:


> The same words were probably spoken by the very keepers who got bitten. What I was trying to say is H. maculata, (along S. calceatum) even by Old World standards, is definitely on a caliber of its own.


How so? They're only a caliber of their own if you get bit. If you follow commonsense you'll NEVER know your Heteroscodra maculata has any worse venom than your Brachypelma.

I own Scolopendra, Macrothele and Sicarius. Their venom may as well be that as my Phidippus regius.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## efmp1987 (Oct 6, 2017)

basin79 said:


> How so? They're only a caliber of their own if you get bit. If you follow commonsense you'll NEVER know your Heteroscodra maculata has any worse venom than your Brachypelma.
> 
> I own Scolopendra, Macrothele and Sicarius. Their venom may as well be that as my Phidippus regius.



When I said caliber I was referring to unpredictability. Which is true. No amount of commonsense will stop a bite that is fated to happen. Accidents are accidents.


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## Venom1080 (Oct 6, 2017)

^^^
Some keepers have been keeping longer than you've been alive and haven't been bitten. Couple close calls, but still.


Id go for Hysterocrates crassipes. Huge, angry, and the real king of baboons.


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## efmp1987 (Oct 6, 2017)

Venom1080 said:


> ^^^
> Some keepers have been keeping longer than you've been alive and haven't been bitten. Couple close calls, but still.


I see the flaws in my words. And perhaps bites can be avoided granted proper caution is applied as was pointed by facts presented.

Does that mean however that cautionary measures should be the same for all species? E.g. treating a pulchra sling as you would an H. Mac adult during re-housing?


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## Venom1080 (Oct 6, 2017)

efmp1987 said:


> I see the flaws in my words. And perhaps bites can be avoided granted proper caution is applied as was pointed by facts presented.
> 
> Does that mean however that cautionary measures should be the same for all species? E.g. treating a pulchra sling as you would an H. Mac adult during re-housing?


What? No. Common sense goes quite a ways too.
Half my spider I rehouse on top of my rufilata cage. Only fast ows I do in a large tub.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## efmp1987 (Oct 6, 2017)

Venom1080 said:


> What? No. Common sense goes quite a ways too.
> Half my spider I rehouse on top of my rufilata cage. Only fast ows I do in a large tub.



And that was what I was referring to by caliber, that is measures are different depending on the spider in question. Just sort of diverted to something else.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## SingaporeB (Oct 7, 2017)

boina said:


> Wow, so many great recommendations!!
> 
> H. mac is actually a T I've always admired but I've heared they often hide a lot. And the speed and venom and skittishness combined scare me a bit - I'm a wuss, I know. Same goes for the S. cal. Also, I want a terrestrial.
> 
> I might get an OBT, though - seems an obvious choice, but again, either I might have a T that's burrowed away for most of the time or a jack-in-the-box. Both is not really what I'm looking for.


H. Mac's only hide from Jon3800. I have two and they are out in the open every night with no webbing.

I have four OBT's and they were housed aborally and have made dazzling web tunnels covering the entire interior. They are bright orange and easy to see. I highly recommend housing an OBT this way. They always run down when the enclosure is opened. No fear of escape.

Reactions: Dislike 1 | Disagree 1 | Funny 1


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## Poec54 (Oct 7, 2017)

basin79 said:


> My lass like my other tarantulas has never charged me.



Using that logic, if you've never been hit by a car, you never will be.



efmp1987 said:


> No amount of commonsense will stop a bite that is fated to happen.



Nothing is fated.  We're not in the middle ages anymore.  Your decisions determine what happens next and the situations you get into, or avoid.  I got my first tarantula 45 years ago, and for the last half of that, have had a large percentage of OW's.  I've never been bit.  In the middle of that I also had a large collection of cobras for 9 years.  All bites can be avoided, sometimes you have to make mistakes to realize that.  In most cases avoidance is a matter of inches.  With captive animals, you're the one putting yourself into situations. If it doesn't end well, remember, it wasn't the animal that asked for that encounter.  They're doing what instinct has taught them to do; you failed to account for that.

Experience is the best teacher for developing skills, why is why I advise people to work their up with spider species and not jump into the deep end too early.  Believe me, no one is impressed if you start off with advanced species you may not be able to control.  And for some people, it means learning that the hard way.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## efmp1987 (Oct 7, 2017)

Poec54 said:


> Nothing is fated.  We're not in the middle ages anymore.  Your decisions determine what happens next and the situations you get into, or avoid.  I got my first tarantula 45 years ago, and for the last half of that, have had a large percentage of OW's.  I've never been bit.  In the middle of that I also had a large collection of cobras for 9 years.  All bites can be avoided, sometimes you have to make mistakes to realize that.  In most cases avoidance is a matter of inches.  With captive animals, you're the one putting yourself into situations. If it doesn't end well, remember, it wasn't the animal that asked for that encounter.  They're doing what instinct has taught them to do; you failed to account for that.
> 
> Experience is the best teacher for developing skills, why is why I advise people to work their up with spider species and not jump into the deep end too early.  Believe me, no one is impressed if you start off with advanced species you may not be able to control.  And for some people, it means learning that the hard way.


Following the logic that you cited against @basin79 which is _"If you've never been hit by a car, you never will be" _one can say that "_if you've never been bitten, you never will be_"?

But yes, I have acknowledged the flaw in my words already as I have expressed several posts above. Completely avoidable.

@Poec54 what cobras were you keeping? Im so keenly interested in Elapids particular those notorious Australian species!


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## Poec54 (Oct 7, 2017)

efmp1987 said:


> Following the logic that you cited against @basin79 which is _"If you've never been hit by a car, you never will be" _one can say that "_if you've never been bitten, you never will be_"?



Not saying I won't be bitten by a tarantula.  I've had close calls, and am surprised I haven't been.  I'm just saying with the species I've had, and the length of time I've had them, bites are not 'fated'.  My being bite-free is a combination of experience, skill, and luck, not necessarily in that order.   

As far as snakes, I was bitten only once, by a subadult female monocled cobra.  That was enough. Didn't need a second reminder.  That was in my first year, and had 8 bite-free years after that.

Reactions: Like 1


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## efmp1987 (Oct 7, 2017)

Poec54 said:


> As far as snakes, I was bitten only once, by a subadult female monocled cobra.  That was enough. Didn't need a second reminder.  That was in my first year, and had 8 bite-free years after that.


Getting bitten by an Asian elapid sure is far worse than getting bitten by an Old World tarantula. How does it feel to have neurotoxic venom flow through your veins? I havent encountered anyone to have experienced this.

And to think cobras are also far more predictable due to the unmistakable threat display, unless they are prone to biting without bothering to spread their ribs.


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## Poec54 (Oct 7, 2017)

efmp1987 said:


> @Poec54 what cobras were you keeping? Im so keenly interested in Elapids particular those notorious Australian species!



I had over 25 kinds over the years, and at my peak 150 specimens.  Off the top of my head:

Africa
- Common Egyptian (N. haje)
- Banded Egyptian (N haje annulifera)
- Calico Egyptian  (8')
- Sinai Egyptian (N. haje - pale heads)
- Cape (N. nivea)
- Togo Blackneck Spitter (N. nigricollis nigricollis - black with a salmon colored throat)
- Banded Spitter (N. nigricollis nigricincta)
- Black Spitter (N. n. woodi)
- Red Spitter (N. pallida)
- Mozambique Spitter (N. mosambica)
- Forest (N. melanoleuca)
- South African Forest

Asia/Indonesia
- Indian (N. naja)
- Ceylonese (N. naja polyocellata)
- Black Pakistan (N. n. karachiensis)
- Monocled (N. n. kaouthia)
- Albino monocled
- Aberrant Monocled (random markings)
- Chinese (N. n. atra)
- Black & White Spitter (N. siamensis)
- Isam Spitter
- Black Spitter (N. sumatrana)
- Philippine (N. philippensis)
- Suphan (N. suphanensis)
- Java Spitter

Reactions: Love 1


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## efmp1987 (Oct 7, 2017)

Poec54 said:


> I had over 25 kinds over the years, and at my peak 150 specimens.  Off the top of my head:
> 
> Africa
> - Common Egyptian (N. haje)
> ...



That's a lot. ROFL. But Naja nivea is definitely pretty, reminds me of an OBT


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## basin79 (Oct 7, 2017)

@Poec54 i apologise for my choice of words.

It's just you yourself used an absolutely stupid analogy. You only have to read the news to know no matter how careful you are you can be hit with a car.

Whilst a tarantula is in no way a machine that can be predicted they're an animal of instinct. And in that can be somewhat predictable.

I've never been charged at by any of my tarantulas. But of course that doesn't mean I never will. But in anticipating that they might covers all the bases to not getting bit.

Reactions: Love 1


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## Poec54 (Oct 7, 2017)

efmp1987 said:


> Getting bitten by an Asian elapid sure is far worse than getting bitten by an Old World tarantula. How does it feel to have neurotoxic venom flow through your veins? I havent encountered anyone to have experienced this.
> 
> And to think cobras are also far more predictable due to the unmistakable threat display, unless they are prone to biting without bothering to spread their ribs.


Cobras in the classic defensive stance are fairly predictable, but are prone to fast moves too.  Most captive bites are feeding responses; they're worked up and pump a lot of venom in.  Defensive bites can be warnings and some are dry.

So, this was 30 years ago.  I was feeding cobras on a July Friday night after work, brought the food in (chicks) and then separated a pair of monocles that were sharing the same cage.  That was my mistake.  In it's excited food frenzy, one bit me on the knuckle of the first finger of my right hand.  The snake realized it made a mistake and pulled back immediately.  I closed the cage and stood there saying 'That didn't just happen.'  But there was a drop of my blood on my finger.  I changed clothes, turned on some night lights, and drove myself to a hospital (stick shift too!).  I went to the emergency desk and said: "Here's my insurance card.  I was just bitten by a cobra and need serum."  They looked at me strangely. 

I was put in a room and hooked up to an IV.  Serum had to be flown in from Orlando, actually from a guy I knew who did venom extraction.  It was a 3 hour wait from bite to serum.  My muscles felt weaker, threw up once, and towards the end was having trouble focusing my eyes and swallowing.  I was given 11 vials of Thailand monocled cobra serum because of the delay.  The serum was administered thru the IV (after testing me for an allergic reaction), and in seconds I could feel it going thru my body.  It was a rush sensation, like something clean and fresh flowing inside me; just wonderful, felt so much better in minutes. 

Problem was tissue damage to my finger (otherwise I would have been out the next day).  I was in for 2 weeks as they fought infection.  By then the pain was intense. So much so that I could hardly feel the bleach water they used to clean the open wound (tendons exposed).  They put me on a morphine drip, but it didn't even dull the pain so I quickly stopped using it, not wanting the side effects.  I was released but had a stent in my wrist for antibiotics that I had to self- administer every 8 hours. That went on for over a week, without a lot of progress.  Then a doctor at USF Tampa who was Asian and had treated cobra bites there prescribed a different blend of antibiotics and that quickly cleared it up.  As soon as I was out I ordered 24 vials of polyvalent serum from SAIMR (South African Institute of Medical Research), that was supposed to be held at Customs, but it was delivered directly to me by the Post Office.  So in years 2 thru 8 I had serum of my own, in my frig.  That gave me some peace of mind.  With most snake bites, tissue damage and infections are usually the worst part.  To reduce/prevent tissue damage, serum is needed within 30 to 60 minutes.  The neurotoxic effects are usually much slower, with most fatalities in 12-24 hours. However, with the hottest snakes, especially black mambas (the world's most dangerous snake), people have died much faster.  Although some Australians have somewhat stronger venoms, they're not as fast or aggressive as black mambas.

One final thing: around that time I was in a reptile club that met monthly in Orlando.  One night there was a speaker that had been bitten by a tiger snake, he was messed up from it, in a wheel chair with coke bottle glasses.  His wife did most of the presentation.  When you're around venomous snake people, you usually see some either with crippled fingers or missing fingers.  Telltale sign.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Poec54 (Oct 7, 2017)

basin79 said:


> @Poec54 i apologise for my choice of words.
> 
> It's just you yourself used an absolutely stupid analogy. You only have to read the news to know no matter how careful you are you can be hit with a car.
> 
> ...



I'd never had tarantulas run inside my clothes before (out of fear, not defensiveness), until it happened.  Happened 3 times, all during cage transfers, all were Poecilotheria.  Two panicked & ran out of the cages onto me, and inside my shirt (safe dark place). The 3rd ran down my legs and then up again, inside my shorts (safer darker place - we rarely wear long pants in Florida unless we have to).  Somehow I wasn't bitten, but it would have been in places I never expected a bite.  I've learned that _anything_ can happen when working with wild animals.  I don't know if my bite-free run will continue indefinitely, but it's proof that I've had some control of the situations I've been in.  

Apology accepted.  Here's the thing, we're all passionate about our hobby, usually that's good, but sometimes that can manifest itself in ways that are inappropriate.  Regardless of what someone else says, or any analogy they use,  stay calm, it's only words.  We all love spiders, we're here to learn and teach.  There's no reason lose tempers or call names.  Regardless of our individual views, we're all in this together.  God knows we have an uphill with our hobby and the public; we don't need to be fighting amongst ourselves.  Other the years I've been here, there's been some horrible examples of fights & tantrums, and I don't want this site to ever get anywhere close to that again.  Those were the dark ages, let's keep moving towards enlightenment.

Reactions: Like 2


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## basin79 (Oct 7, 2017)

Poec54 said:


> I'd never had tarantulas run inside my clothes before (out of fear, not defensiveness), until it happened.  Happened 3 times, all during cage transfers, all were Poecilotheria.  Two panicked & ran out of the cages onto me, and inside my shirt (safe dark place). The 3rd ran down my legs and then up again, inside my shorts (safer darker place - we rarely wear long pants in Florida unless we have to).  Somehow I wasn't bitten, but it would have been in places I never expected a bite.  I've learned that _anything_ can happen when working with wild animals.  I don't know if my bite-free run will continue indefinitely, but it's proof that I've had some control of the situations I've been in.
> 
> Apology accepted.  Here's the thing, we're all passionate about our hobby, usually that's good, but sometimes that can manifest itself in ways that are inappropriate.  Regardless of what someone else says, or any analogy they use,  stay calm, it's only words.  We all love spiders, we're here to learn and teach.  There's no reason lose tempers or call names.  Regardless of our individual views, we're all in this together.  God knows we have an uphill with our hobby and the public; we don't need to be fighting amongst ourselves.  Other the years I've been here, there's been some horrible examples of fights & tantrums, and I don't want this site to ever get anywhere close to that again.  Those were the dark ages, let's keep moving towards enlightenment.


Thank you.

How do you do enclosure transfers? For it to happen 3 times is worrying.


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## Poec54 (Oct 7, 2017)

Works most of the time!  I set cages on a bar stool in the middle of the room to work with them.  Keep in mind I've had thousands of tarantulas over the decades, & have done many cage transfers, breedings, packing, and unpacking, not to mention all the maintenance. The percentage of issues is miniscule.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## efmp1987 (Oct 7, 2017)

Poec54 said:


> Cobras in the classic defensive stance are fairly predictable, but are prone to fast moves too.  Most captive bites are feeding responses; they're worked up and pump a lot of venom in.  Defensive bites can be warnings and some are dry.
> 
> So, this was 30 years ago.  I was feeding cobras on a July Friday night after work, brought the food in (chicks) and then separated a pair of monocles that were sharing the same cage.  That was my mistake.  In it's excited food frenzy, one bit me on the knuckle of the first finger of my right hand.  The snake realized it made a mistake and pulled back immediately.  I closed the cage and stood there saying 'That didn't just happen.'  But there was a drop of my blood on my finger.  I changed clothes, turned on some night lights, and drove myself to a hospital (stick shift too!).  I went to the emergency desk and said: "Here's my insurance card.  I was just bitten by a cobra and need serum."  They looked at me strangely.
> 
> ...



Ouch! That sounded like a terrible experience. What happened to your snakes? I admire them from a distance and would not want to keep something like a monocoled cobra let alone a taipan or a mamba. Black mambas definitely are the most dangerous snake as you have pointed, and while they are not the most venomous (but still extremely toxic, mind you), their venom has a very low molecular weight and spreads REALLY fast. I was bitten by a pit viper once when I was younger, but it was dry. LOL. Lucky me!


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## Poec54 (Oct 8, 2017)

efmp1987 said:


> Ouch! That sounded like a terrible experience. What happened to your snakes? I admire them from a distance and would not want to keep something like a monocoled cobra let alone a taipan or a mamba. Black mambas definitely are the most dangerous snake as you have pointed, and while they are not the most venomous (but still extremely toxic, mind you), their venom has a very low molecular weight and spreads REALLY fast. I was bitten by a pit viper once when I was younger, but it was dry. LOL. Lucky me!


After 9 years I needed a break and sold them.  You really have to be alert & focused working with them, and that took up a good part of my weekends.  I had a friend who was much better than I was with these animals.  He bred black mambas, king cobras, tree cobras, water cobras, rhino vipers, etc.  Amazing talent.  But that was almost his entire life. 

Another snake collector I know had a professional room, set up like a reptile house in a zoo, with big walk-in cages.  He had transitioned from cobras, puff adders, etc to Australians.  Had some tiger snakes and one time when I was there, he unpacked an adult taipan in a walk-in cage, just poured it out of the bag while he was in there.  There's no way to have done that with a black mamba or forest cobra in such a confined space, they're too fast and high strung.


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## Ungoliant (Oct 9, 2017)

Poec54 said:


> When you're around venomous snake people, you usually see some either with crippled fingers or missing fingers.  Telltale sign.


I admire the beauty of venomous snakes, but I don't think I'd ever want to be part of a hobby where the "telltale sign" is people "with crippled fingers or missing fingers." A little too intense for my taste.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Poec54 (Oct 9, 2017)

Ungoliant said:


> I admire the beauty of venomous snakes, but I don't think I'd ever want to be part of a hobby where the "telltale sign" is people "with crippled fingers or missing fingers." A little too intense for my taste.


Doesn't have to mean bites though.  I knew two guys in Florida who did venom extraction (sold to labs and universities), and had hundreds of snakes in their labs.  One guy, George van Horn, was bitten 9 times that I know of, twice from a 14 foot male king cobra he had.  With all his bites, he developed a strong sensitivity to venom, and would go into shock and pass out from a bite.  The first king cobra bite was bad, the second ended his career.  His right arm swelled so bad the doctors cut it open the entire length to relieve the pressure, but that messed up some of his muscles and tendons.  He couldn't do extraction any more and closed his facility.  When I used to watch him extract, he'd regularly have his hands within striking range and it made me nervous just watching him. 

The other venom extractor, Glen Womble, was more careful and was never bit during his career.  Bites aren't inevitable when you own venomous snakes, even a lot of then.  Some people learn to be extremely careful right out of the starting gate, and others need a lesson or two before that's fully appreciated.     

Tying that in to spiders: you can do something 100 times, 1,000 times, without incident.  And one day, for whatever reason, the animal acts completely different and you're caught off guard.  You can get away with a lot of things with animals, but eventually it will catch up to you.  With all I've experienced, I've learned to limit a spider's options as much as possible.  It may be very unlikely for it to do something (run, jump, bite) but if you're not prepared for it, that spider can make a fool out of you.  The words: _"Well, it never did that before"_ don't count for much.  What an animal 'usually does', and what it's capable of are two different things.  That's why I urge people to acquire tarantulas species in stages, to work their way up.  Jumping into OW's immediately often doesn't end well.  And having an OW sling for a few months does not mean you have the experience to work with adults.  It's not a race.  Take your time, enjoy what you have, get to learn tarantula husbandry with more forgiving species, and then decide if you want to take the next step.  That gives the best chance for things going well for both you and the spider, along with the people you live with.

Reactions: Like 2 | Informative 1


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## efmp1987 (Oct 9, 2017)

Poec54 said:


> Doesn't have to mean bites though.  I knew two guys in Florida who did venom extraction (sold to labs and universities), and had hundreds of snakes in their labs.  One guy, George van Horn, was bitten 9 times that I know of, twice from a 14 foot male king cobra he had.  With all his bites, he developed a strong sensitivity to venom, and would go into shock and pass out from a bite.  The first king cobra bite was bad, the second ended his career.  His right arm swelled so bad the doctors cut it open the entire length to relieve the pressure, but that messed up some of his muscles and tendons.  He couldn't do extraction any more and closed his facility.  When I used to watch him extract, he'd regularly have his hands within striking range and it made me nervous just watching him.
> 
> The other venom extractor, Glen Womble, was more careful and was never bit during his career.  Bites aren't inevitable when you own venomous snakes, even a lot of then.  Some people learn to be extremely careful right out of the starting gate, and others need a lesson or two before that's fully appreciated.
> 
> Tying that in to spiders: you can do something 100 times, 1,000 times, without incident.  And one day, for whatever reason, the animal acts completely different and you're caught off guard.  You can get away with a lot of things with animals, but eventually it will catch up to you.  With all I've experienced, I've learned to limit a spider's options as much as possible.  It may be very unlikely for it to do something (run, jump, bite) but if you're not prepared for it, that spider can make a fool out of you.  The words: _"Well, it never did that before"_ don't count for much.  What an animal 'usually does', and what it's capable of are two different things.  That's why I urge people to acquire tarantulas species in stages, to work their way up.  Jumping into OW's immediately often doesn't end well.  And having an OW sling for a few months does not mean you have the experience to work with adults.  It's not a race.  Take your time, enjoy what you have, get to learn tarantula husbandry with more forgiving species, and then decide if you want to take the next step.  That gives the best chance for things going well for both you and the spider, along with the people you live with.



I also believe that the longer you deal with, or keep something, an air of subtle complacence takes root ("I know this snake like the back of my hand") and the, BAM! Hence the majority of people who get bitten by either T's, or snakes, or get mauled by their big exotic felines are the long-time keepers themselves.

Edit: Some or a few anyway, not all.

Reactions: Agree 1


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