# Tarantula species that lack strong venom



## jamjam (May 26, 2013)

Hey there, I'd really like to hear of some tarantula species that don't have strong venom.

The reason why is because I have 5 tarantulas and want more different less beginner but still not advanced species but I don't want anything dangerous because I get paranoid with having my dog around and stuff. I also get paranoid with knowing that it could somehow escape and bite me in my sleep but that's a whole other story.

I'm fine with defensive tarantulas and speedy less docile ones just not ones with strong potent venom or really scary bites.

So are there any interesting intermediate species with no strong potent venom?

Also if you could list ones that aren't really extreme flickers that'd be a great bonus but not necessary.

                                  Thanks a lot!


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## Rhodin (May 26, 2013)

how fast and how skittish are allowed?
Does it need to be "handleable"?
Arboreal or terrestrial?
and what do you currently own?


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## jamjam (May 26, 2013)

Not too fast or skittish where it'll end up under my bed or a crevice unwilling to come out. Fast as in it might dart away but won't go far.
It doesn't need to be handleable and it doesn't matter if arboreal or terrestrial.
I currently only own Avicularia Avicularia, Brachypelma(Albiceps,Albopilosum,Bohmei) and Grammostola Pulchripes


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## Kazaam (May 26, 2013)

Psalmopoeus.

They don't have urticating hairs, and they're basically new worlds with an old world temperament and their venom isn't much worse than that of a bee.

That and just look at how beautiful they are!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Stirmi (May 26, 2013)

Acanthoscurria geniculata and GBB


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## freedumbdclxvi (May 26, 2013)

I second Psalmopoeus.


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## toast4nat (May 26, 2013)

I third Psalmopoeus. It was my first "intermediate" T, and I love my girl to death. After her I got a P. regalis with no fear.


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## klawfran3 (May 26, 2013)

I honestly think  B. Smithi would be a good choice, the same with an A. avic. correct me I'm wrong, but those two seem to have quite the weak venom, and aren't skittish at all. but then again, you said not a beginner species, so probably a GBB would to the trick for you. they're pretty good webbers, so they're fun to watch, even if you don't handle them.


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## MarkmD (May 26, 2013)

You could get an Lasiodora,parahybana, theyr not that skittish grow large, eat very well and good display T, being NW they have a weaker venom.


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## KamikazePyro (May 26, 2013)

MarkmD said:


> You could get an Lasiodora,parahybana, theyr not that skittish grow large, eat very well and good display T, being NW they have a weaker venom.


They're also semi-handleable if you so choose to do that at some point (depending on the specimen, of course).


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## Rhodin (May 26, 2013)

I'll recommend the following genuses that lack potent venom but are perhaps a little harder to deal with than your average B.smithi or G.rosea
I also tried to keep in mind what you already have and looked for things that will be different

Phormictopus
Xenesthis
Chromatopelma
Holothele (Incei communal is what I was thinking)
Thrixopelma
Acanthoscurria
Psalmopoeus (remember that there is more to this genus than the irminia)
Oligoxystre

If I may offer another suggestion. Perhaps you might find what you're looking for in something other than Ts entirely. 
Such as huntsmen spider or perhaps a funnel web spider like the ones in the linothele genus. I had a hard time finding info on venom pontency for the linotheles so I would definitely look into it more and ask the breeder/supplier you are buying from but they might be exactly what you want.


Anyway, good luck with your next T  or other arachnid should you choose to get a funnel web or huntsman spider


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## Storm76 (May 28, 2013)

Kazaam said:


> Psalmopoeus.
> 
> They don't have urticating hairs, and they're basically new worlds with an old world temperament and their venom isn't much worse than that of a bee.
> 
> That and just look at how beautiful they are!


I really, really, -really- dislike this comparison of "isn't much worse than that of a bee" - have you ever been bitten by any Psalmopoeus spp.? I assume not, the bitereports and fellow hobbyists that have been will probably tell you that it a) varies a lot depending on the person, b) depends on wet/dry-bite and c) the fact that Psalmopoeus spp. venom has peptides that activate certain pain receptors and basically overload them. A bite of these is considered very painful - although it won't last weeks to enjoy like Poecies...


Sorry, kinda sick of the stupid bee <> tarantula venom comparison. It's totally pointless.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Poec54 (May 28, 2013)

Storm76 said:


> I really, really, -really- dislike this comparison of "isn't much worse than that of a bee" - have you ever been bitten by any Psalmopoeus spp.? I assume not, the bitereports and fellow hobbyists that have been will probably tell you that it a) varies a lot depending on the person, b) depends on wet/dry-bite and c) the fact that Psalmopoeus spp. venom has peptides that activate certain pain receptors and basically overload them. A bite of these is considered very painful - although it won't last weeks to enjoy like Poecies...
> 
> Sorry, kinda sick of the stupid bee <> tarantula venom comparison. It's totally pointless.


+1.  What makes a bite from any good-sized T different than a bee sting is the two huge fangs; there's a some physical damage just from them, especially if they hang on and chew.  That can tear tendons.  Every species of venomous snake has a different mix of proteins, most of whose purposes aren't understood yet.  Snake venom is far more complex than it needs to be to do the job, hence all the reseaerch being done to discover medical uses for it.  The proteins each seem to have special functions; attacking tissue, blood, heart, & the nervous system  Some cause free bleeding, others cause clots.  Some cause pain, and others seem to be there just to amplify the effect of other proteins.  It's like a chemical hand grenade going off inside the victim.   How much research has been done on T's?    

With over 900 species of T's all over the world having evolved to a wide variety of habitats, encountering different prey and predators, there's no reason to assume that the majority of them have the same basic venoms.  Some are eating vertebrates, and some need to subdue prey very quickly or risk losing it (arboreals).  No doubt some of their prey have made adaptations over millions of years to develop some resisitence to the bites.  Many T's live in remote, and often third world regions, where doctors and hospitals are scarce; don't rely on their record-keeping to lull you into thinking that the bites of their spiders are like bee stings.  The hobby has reached it's current level of popularity relatively recently, so there's very little known about venoms, or human's reactions to them.  Proteins are the big offender for causing allergic reactions, and since we don't know what's in the the various T venoms, there is no guarantee any of us won't have an allergic reaction.  Bee's themselves aren't considered to have strong venoms, except of course to the unlucky individuals who are deathly allergic to them.  This is another reason not to handle T's.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Storm76 (May 28, 2013)

Poec54 said:


> +1.  What makes a bite from any good-sized T different than a bee sting is the two huge fangs; there's a some physical damage just from them, especially if they hang on and chew.  That can tear tendons.  Every species of venomous snake has a different mix of proteins, most of whose purposes aren't understood yet.  Snake venom is far more complex than it needs to be to do the job, hence all the reseaerch being done to discover medical uses for it.  The proteins each seem to have special functions; attacking tissue, blood, heart, & the nervous system  Some cause free bleeding, others cause clots.  Some cause pain, and others seem to be there just to amplify the effect of other proteins.  It's like a chemical hand grenade going off inside the victim.   How much research has been done on T's?
> 
> With over 900 species of T's all over the world having evolved to a wide variety of habitats, encountering different prey and predators, there's no reason to assume that the majority of them have the same basic venoms.  Some are eating vertebrates, and some need to subdue prey very quickly or risk losing it (arboreals).  No doubt some of their prey have made adaptations over millions of years to develop some resisitence to the bites.  Many T's live in remote, and often third world regions, where doctors and hospitals are scarce; don't rely on their record-keeping to lull you into thinking that the bites of their spiders are like bee stings.  The hobby has reached it's current level of popularity relatively recently, so there's very little known about venoms, or human's reactions to them.  Proteins are the big offender for causing allergic reactions, and since we don't know what's in the the various T venoms, there is no guarantee any of us won't have an allergic reaction.  Bee's themselves aren't considered to have strong venoms, except of course to the unlucky individuals who are deathly allergic to them.  This is another reason not to handle T's.


I think one big factor is the factor that bee venom is protein-based (if I'm not mistaken!) while tarantula venom is mostly peptide based - which makes it work "underneath" the natural immune system and extremely hard to "counter" for the same. Hence the comparitively long effects of certain "medically significant" species' bites. Please correct me in case I'm wrong, but for example P. cambridgei venom was analyzed not that long ago and basically tested to be extremely painful due to it's connection the receptors (like mentioned above) - due to the fact that venom within a genus seems to be pretty similiar (for the most part) it is to assume (since I can't prove it) that the other members of the same genus have potentially similiar effects, too. 

On that note - the size of a T doesn't really matter in that regard. Even a tiny Poecie / H. Mac / H. gigas / OBT / whatnot can put you "out of commission" for a few days in the worst case...it's just another myth that is being told over and over again...I have to cringe everytime I hear either of these even from respected breeders / keepers! 

And while I can understand the need to "play it down" to further the hobby - on the same note us keepers shouldn't trade such "myths" to other fellow keepers and lure them into a false sense of security in the worst case. "Your H. mac is only 2.5" - it won't do much at that size if it bites you" - yeah right: The one trying to handle it because of that will probably know better the moment it -does- happen 


Regarding the P. cambridgei venom, please check these links:

http://www.arachnoserver.org/toxincard.html?id=400
http://www.arachnoserver.org/toxincard.html?id=226

Complete list of P. cambridgei venom composition: http://www.arachnoserver.org/basicsearch.html?keywords=Psalmopoeus&6578706f7274=1&d-3576912-e=5

Or simply go to...  http://www.arachnoserver.org/advancedsearch.html and enter a genus (i.e. "Grammostola" - don't use species like G. rosea) and you can look up some scientific information regarding venom...

Another good site: http://protchem.hunnu.edu.cn/toxin/...=Sample_Search&Filter=5&QS=Psalmopoeus&Page=0


To the OP - what T's do you currently own?

Reactions: Like 3


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## Poec54 (May 28, 2013)

Storm76 said:


> "Your H. mac is only 2.5" - it won't do much at that size if it bites you" - yeah right:


+1.  In some species of venomous snakes, youngsters have stronger venoms than adults, drop-for-drop, to make up for the reduced quantity.  It's possible that some tarantula species could have evolved this characteristic too.


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## JadeWilliamson (May 29, 2013)

Poec54 said:


> +1.  In some species of venomous snakes, youngsters have stronger venoms than adults, drop-for-drop, to make up for the reduced quantity.  It's possible that some tarantula species could have evolved this characteristic too.


I've always wondered


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## Storm76 (May 29, 2013)

To get this subject back on track, personally I'd go for Avicularia spp. in terms of arboreal (their venom is reportedly seriously lacking potency and makes you itch like crazy mostly), or in case of terrestrials Euathlus spp., Brachypelma spp, Grammostola spp and so on. However, I'm assuming new-world is the way to go for you currently overall and please keep in mind that different people react different to venom of T's. If someone has an anaphilactic(sp, sorry!) shock due to a bite, even the least potent venom can have dire consequences. 

In general - don't be scared / worried! I'm pretty sure most keepers haven't been bitten even once, it's all about respect for the animal and knowing what it's capable of as well as taking security precautions as needed for the confidence of you, the keeper. 

Hope you find what you're looking for!

Reactions: Like 1


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## MarkmD (May 29, 2013)

I agree with storm76, Avicularia are very good T's for a beginner or even advanced keepers, after all a T is a T, to start with T venom isn't ment for us but for it's pray, bugs some rodents etc, but some do have stronger (as you know), being honest just respect every T you get and it should be fine.


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## Rhodin (May 29, 2013)

Storm76 said:


> To get this subject back on track, personally I'd go for Avicularia spp. in terms of arboreal (their venom is reportedly seriously lacking potency and makes you itch like crazy mostly), or in case of terrestrials Euathlus spp., Brachypelma spp, Grammostola spp and so on. However, I'm assuming new-world is the way to go for you currently overall and please keep in mind that different people react different to venom of T's. If someone has an anaphilactic(sp, sorry!) shock due to a bite, even the least potent venom can have dire consequences.
> 
> In general - don't be scared / worried! I'm pretty sure most keepers haven't been bitten even once, it's all about respect for the animal and knowing what it's capable of as well as taking security precautions as needed for the confidence of you, the keeper.
> 
> Hope you find what you're looking for!


He owns an avic already and a couple nw terrestrials.


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## Stan Schultz (May 29, 2013)

jamjam said:


> Hey there, I'd really like to hear of some tarantula species that don't have strong venom. ...


Wrong question! Your question should be, "What species should I avoid because they have a 'medically significant bite?'"

Review the bite reports on *this* and other forums for a pretty good idea of which species to avoid. For starters, I'd say avoid these genera and species:

Genus _Poecilotheria_

Genus _Stromatopelma_

Genus _Heteroscodra_

_Pelinobius muticus_ (Formerly called _Citharischius crawshayi_, the king baboon tarantula.)

Note that these are all Old World tarantulas. This is not entirely accidental!

Also, perform a search using this search string: *tarantula+bite* (Warning: When I tried this I got a lot of garbage that wasn't relevant. You might experiment with different search terms.)

There are probably others I can't think of at the moment.


Enjoy your little 8-legged toxicology experiment!

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## Storm76 (May 30, 2013)

Searches for that kind of stuff reveal one thing for sure: The differences in experience after a bite from those species, Stan. It points out one thing above all: People react differently to bites of the same species - and it's not entirely depending on wet/dry bite only


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## Stan Schultz (Jun 2, 2013)

Storm76 said:


> Searches for that kind of stuff reveal one thing for sure: The differences in experience after a bite from those species, Stan. It points out one thing above all: People react differently to bites of the same species - and it's not entirely depending on wet/dry bite only




No argument here. It just points up the fact that these creatures are nowhere as simple as we assume they are. Oh, well. Back to the lab...





Enjoy your little 8-legged Yoda!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Poec54 (Jun 2, 2013)

Pikaia said:


> It just points up the fact that these creatures are nowhere as simple as we assume they are.


+1.  They've had millions of years to develop many specialized adaptations.  We have no idea what the vast majority of those may be.  Some may prey heavily on small vertebrates and could have evolved specific venoms to incapacitate them quickly.  Or have specialized venoms for certain invertebrates may have unintended effects on mammals.  Humans vary widely in how their systems react to things.  With over 900 species of tarantulas spread out over many habitats, there's a tremendous amount for us to learn.  We're at the very beginning of this journey.


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## Storm76 (Jun 3, 2013)

Poec54 said:


> We're at the very beginning of this journey...


...for centuries already.  Kidding aside, there's just so much stuff that will probably never been scientifically covered .


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