# Anyone Never Handle Their Tarantula?



## The_Monk (Jul 22, 2005)

Does anyone never handle their tarantula? Just curious because a lot of people have some pretty aggressive t's and wondered how you cleaned the tank?


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## becca81 (Jul 22, 2005)

I never handle any of mine.  I use long tweezers and forceps when I need to do maintenance.  I've used the "coke bottle" method to move spiders around (OW and NW) and just plain tupperware.

Turkey baster to fill up water when I need to.


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## Schlyne (Jul 22, 2005)

I never handle any of mine.  Forceps, a paintbrush, "coke bottle" method and a piece of cardboard.

Water spray bottle.


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## Mandi (Jul 22, 2005)

i handle my rosea from time to time but thats usually because shes curious and crawls on me while im doing maintenance. She likes to play tug-o-war with the stuff in her tank, including my hand which i find rather amusing.

The rest of them though i use tweezers, and would never handle them, or my rosie either unless she invites her self out.

I dont do the baster thing though, i just put the water dishes in an easy to get to area and either open the tank really quickly or drip the water through the mesh


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## Lorgakor (Jul 22, 2005)

I handle several of mine. But the ones that I don't handle I use long forceps and tweezers and a brush. I just remove water dishes with my hands or with the forceps, and food boluses with my plastic tweezers.


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## Pofecks (Jul 22, 2005)

I don't handle any of my T's, 12' tweezers are used when cleaning the dead cricket bodies up. I put fresh water in all their tanks everyday and use extreme care while doing so.  Depending my female T.blondi's mood,  I sometimes gently cover her hide entrance with a piece of cardboard when doing the more time consuming maintenance tasks. I don't handle my T's because they might get hurt.


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## Puppet Master (Jul 22, 2005)

I dont handle my 2 P. lugardi's, and My G. rosea is a sweetheart and dosnt seem to care if I put my hands in her cage to remove things, I dont know what the "coke bottle" method is but if I need to move my T's I put a small kritter keeper in front of them and use a brush to urge then forward.


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## bagheera (Jul 22, 2005)

My policy is never. Transfers are done with bottles or cups. The exception to this is my 9 y/o B. smithii, she freaks if a cup comes near her. When I first adopted her I tried to get her in cup. It was a no-go.  However, she is perfectly happy to be picked up, and set down somewhere else. She just goes limp. Go figure!


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## Windchaser (Jul 22, 2005)

Before this thread turns into yet another handling debate, I would suggest that those who are interested in this topic do a search. This is one topic that has been discussed many times and it has always turned into a major debate.


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## The_Monk (Jul 22, 2005)

sorry I did try a search before hand but didnt turn up much, guess my keywords were rubbish! LOL


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## Lopez (Jul 22, 2005)

I don't handle mine (I manipulate them for pictures and so on, but don't "handle" them)

I don't do any tank maintenence.


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## Windchaser (Jul 22, 2005)

The_Monk said:
			
		

> sorry I did try a search before hand but didnt turn up much, guess my keywords were rubbish! LOL


I guess, I tried a search with the word "handling" and got 38 pages of threads on the topic.


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## Lorgakor (Jul 22, 2005)

The question was more about cage maintenance than handling. How do you do cage maint. without coming into contact with the tarantula? Am I correct The_Monk?


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## chris73 (Jul 22, 2005)

I fall in the never catagory.


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## Czalz (Jul 22, 2005)

*my t's*

I handle all of my t's, but still opt for the 12" foreceps to do cage cleaning, just because it's easier (cages in bookshelves etc.)


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## Gesticulator (Jul 22, 2005)

Now that I have some species that I consider un-handleable, I have a new respect for all my T's. I do the maintenance with either tweezers or my hand, depending on the T and how easily it gets perturbed as well as if it is in an arboreal set up or not. I admit though that I do handle my avics once in a while but only to crawl on my hand for a photo or something or to show some of my sons friends, that they don't have to be afraid. Nobody should ever take it for granted that a T won't jump, run or bite. I agree that they are best left alone, but an occasional touch to a T that is well within one's comfort level isn't harmful either.

Reactions: Like 1


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## mimic58 (Jul 22, 2005)

I dont handle my t's anymore nor do i wish to, They are all a bit big now and tend to try eating my hand when i go near them


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## curioussnake (Jul 22, 2005)

I handled my rosea once when it was half an inche  :}  , now no more


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## Cirith Ungol (Jul 22, 2005)

In regard to the topic: Yup! Me...


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## becca81 (Jul 22, 2005)

Lorgakor said:
			
		

> The question was more about cage maintenance than handling. How do you do cage maint. without coming into contact with the tarantula? Am I correct The_Monk?


I think this is what The_Monk intended.  However, most people who do handle use some type of equipment for maintenace with their Ts that are more defensive, so the question didn't make a whole lot of sense.


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## rgfx (Jul 22, 2005)

All my Ts are well chilled when I'm doin maintenance, and I just use my hand usually. I wonder if I'm being given a false sense of security...
I never handle them, except when one of my cheeky a.versi slings trys to get out, I'm too paranoid about the little beggars teleporting.
Even my 4" avic can still teleport. (and shoot a fantastic amount of poo down the glass, there's no way I wanna get a faceful of that!)


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## cloud711 (Jul 22, 2005)

im just wondering if ever your cleaning the entire tank how do you deal with aggressive burrowing species(king baboon)? do you dig them out or something? and then put them in a container. thanks


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## Cirith Ungol (Jul 23, 2005)

You have to carefully dig them out. I've not tried it yet but I am very certain that when disturbed enough the C.c. will first try to escape deeper into it's burrow but will then bolt to the surface if it realises that there is no escape. An alternative is that it might try to hide at the end of a tunnel until "something" comes too close and then it will strike. But as soon as the T is clear of substrate it has to be captured with a fitting container and removed.

If done calmly and slowly enough it might be possible to not aggravate the T too much so that all of the removing process can go smoothly without any incidents.

If digging out a Haplopelma (lividum for example) I believe that the T will come to the surface very quickly and will try to escape or kill/injure the intruder. In that case you have to be sure that every entrance is covered either with jars or lids. Haplopelma lividum (only Haplopelma I own) is amongst the fastest T's I've seen with my own eyes and it could escape in no-time if you're unlucky. I am doubtfull that a slow and peacefull/stressless removal is possible with that species in comparison to C.c.


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## rosehaired1979 (Jul 23, 2005)

I hold mine but only if they want to "come out and play" aka try to escape but other than that I do not hold my Ts.


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## wolfpak (Jul 23, 2005)

i handle my t. blondi


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## The_Monk (Jul 23, 2005)

I wait till the t goes into her hide and then very carefully place something over the entrance, usually a piece of plexi glass. I still use forceps to remove things.

The question was about tank maintenance but I was also interested to see if people did pick up their aggressive t's in order to do it. Sorry if the wording on my question was bad!


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## Elson (Jul 23, 2005)

I've stopped handling old world species since i got bitten by my H.albostriatum . Used to handle some old world species like H.albostriatum , H.schmidti , P.lugardi and P.murinus . Yes P.murinus , thought it was a docile species and handled it many times without getting any bites from him   !!


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## Gesticulator (Jul 23, 2005)

The_Monk said:
			
		

> I wait till the t goes into her hide and then very carefully place something over the entrance, usually a piece of plexi glass. I still use forceps to remove things.
> 
> The question was about tank maintenance but I was also interested to see if people did pick up their aggressive t's in order to do it. Sorry if the wording on my question was bad!


Well, "Monk" I think you have devised a system that you are comfortable with, which is what makes it work. :clap:


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## greenbay1 (Jul 23, 2005)

I have a hands off policy for the sake of the Ts. I use the 12" tweezers to do spot cleaning and I use the plastic litre and 2 litre bottles to rehouse them. I have 2 Ts that I use for educational purposes in the schools and I handle them fairly regularly.


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## CedrikG (Jul 23, 2005)

probably everyone know that I dont handle my ts as Im always in the middle of handling debate


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## jw73 (Jul 24, 2005)

I handled my Ts twice. When handled second time my T run away and now I don't handle them. I am too afraid of escape.


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## Hedorah99 (Jul 24, 2005)

I only handle four of mine and it has been mainly for sexing purposes that I have picked them up. One the very rare occasion I'll take out my rose hair or smithi to show them off to some friends. My pink toe is handleable but prone to taking off like a lightning bolt. The same pretty much goes for my A. seemani. Basically I don't handle them because I am scared of what they will do to me, its more like i am scared what i will do to them or what they will do to themselves. I like them all to much to hurt them or have them jump and rupture their abdomens.


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## Imegnixs_Cinder (Jul 24, 2005)

This is a very sad story of exactly why I don't handle mine anymore.
My first T a stunning adult female blonde (I think it was a blonde anyway didn't know too much back then). I picked her up just fine and my husband saw me being brave and decided to have a go too. All went just fine till he went to put her back down again. She latched onto him and wouldn't let go, he of course not being overly keen on spiders let alone on Tarantulas panicked and freaked out and jumped and the tara fell onto my kitchen floor.
Her abdomen split right open and she was crawling around the floor while I ran around trying to figure out best way to catch her in the state she was in. Ended up having to scoop her up into a pint glass. She of course died and now I wont handle them partly because seeing her crawl around the floor totally wigged me out but mainly because I learned the hard way just how dangerous it is for the Tara to be handled.


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## cloud711 (Jul 25, 2005)

i handle my g rosea once a week. but i surely wont handle old world species.


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## Vanisher (Jul 26, 2005)

The_Monk said:
			
		

> Does anyone never handle their tarantula? Just curious because a lot of people have some pretty aggressive t's and wondered how you cleaned the tank?


Very seldom! I look upon them like aquariumfishes.! My opinion are that T:s get stressed with too much handling! Just studying them gives me anough pleasure.!  CHEERS!!!///Johan


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## king7 (Jul 26, 2005)

you can do maintenance without ever having to hadle a T.

i like to handle all of my T's (apart from OBT,cobolt blue.there just to quick).its good to show them to freinds and family.i also let other people handle them if i think they can,if i have any doubts i wont let them.


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## natakamani (Apr 9, 2006)

I handle my Gypsy pretty frequently, but only if shes inviting herself, ie, crawling around the top of the tank. She was hand reared, so I know she's comfy with people hands and faces,  and she will actually pout if I dont hold her when shes asking. She'll usually go once or twice around the edges of the top of the tank, and then go into her hide and web over the entrance if I dont respond. I think it all depends on the spider and its temperment. Even if you have one like my girl though, you have to understand that they might have a bad day, and if they bite you, you probably deserve it,  so just sit still and take one for the team.


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## 2shelbys (Apr 9, 2006)

I rarely ever handle mine any more beyond moving them to new housing as they grow. When doing this I either place something over them and slowly slide cardboard under them or just place their whole enclosure into a larger one and let them venture out when they want to. I prefer to bother them as little as possible to avoid them getting stressed or losing (intentionally or not) urticating hairs and ending up with a bald spot. They look so much better without them. Also, I have to admit that after nearly 30 years of keeping various spiders and scorpions the fascination of handling them has worn off some what.


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## metallica2501 (Apr 9, 2006)

I handle some of my t's.  my favorite is my rosea shes very calm and actually doesnt not like to go back in her cage when i bring her out.  once in while ill pick up my l. parabyhana.  i do not handle agressive ones like my lividum or murinus i respect those.  basically it comes down to the temperment of the t and whether i feel comfortable handling it.  One thing to remember, is that these animals do not like to be handled the handling brings us pleasure and excitment but stress to them.  also one has to be very careful handling the t, it can potentially be hazardus to its health in the sense of dropping it and killing it.  another is getting biten by it( knock on wood i havent)   however iv'e had close instances with the murinus and lividum doing cleaning.  the most important thing is to respect them, do not be cocky thinking ohh i can handle it,  thats when things happen to most people.


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## common spider (Apr 9, 2006)

I handle mine very little.


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## solaceofwinter (Apr 9, 2006)

i never handle any of mine either.


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## bugs4life (Apr 9, 2006)

I only handle my two G. roseas.  I leave the rest alone, they get kinda skittish.  But with any of them, I just reach in to change out the water.  I can't use a turkey baster anyway, I keep large decorative glass beads in the water dishes to help prevent drowning...they look great, too  
With the rest of my T's, I use little plastic tubs and stuff to transfer them.  I usually use forceps to get rid of cricket bodies, first of all because I don't want to touch that (ewwwwwww) and second of all because the bodies can turn up in the strangest places lol.


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## T- RANCHOOLAAA (Apr 9, 2006)

I never handle them.  However when I got my first T, Rambo a Rosehair, when I was in 8th grade. When I did maint. on the tank, I looked like I was ready for a battle.  :? I put these huge gloves on that were used for stocking a coal stove just in case it decided to run up my arm.  As I got older though I would just use a fish net to block the T into a corner and do the maint.  Never had a problem,infact a lot of them would just clump themselves into a corner and sit there.  Usually when that lid opened up they would retreat into their shelter.


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## Jmadson13 (Apr 9, 2006)

And thus the handling debate rages again 

Seriously though, I can't resist occaisional handlings. These usually happen during cage transfers so as not to stress the spiders too much.


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## bodar (Apr 10, 2006)

Nice to look at, not to hold is my motto, i just love watching a six of my T's


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## MRL (Apr 10, 2006)

I never do.


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## dragyn5 (Apr 13, 2006)

I have 60 T's and I handle about 10-12 of them. The only ones I handle are my Grammastolas, Aphonapelmas and Brachys. I don't handle old world or Arboreal. I don't handle them often, maybe once a month. My husband is a photographer and I handle them so he can get some good photos. Actually, this Tarantula addiction is his fault!!! He got me started and MizM got me hooked!!!


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## Libertykeeper (Apr 13, 2006)

Very, very rarely do I attempt to handle any of my T's, and actually my B. Vagans very recently "handled" me while I was performing maintenance, ouch.


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## kitty_b (Apr 13, 2006)

i handled my oldest red knee years ago.

they seems happier being left alone in their tanks, and so i only interact with them when i need to clean their cages. i'm not as worried about being tagged as i am about accidently injuring one of my $100-200 children.


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## ventell (Apr 13, 2006)

The only one that I could easily handle, my rosehair is rather psycho, and my a. seemani is always down in his hole, so that one is out too.  All the others are either really fast, or really aggressive, dictating a hands off cleaning/maintenance program =).


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## ZooKeeper78 (Apr 13, 2006)

Ok, This im sure is a silly question, What is the coke Bottle method? Several people on this thread have mentioned it... :? 
I Never handle any of My T's,  Not so much for my safty but for thairs, as i dont trust myself not to drop them...


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## GailC (Apr 13, 2006)

cut the top off of a 2 liter pop bottle and use it along with a paint brush as a "capture bell" worked wonderful with my Hap sp. 

I only have 1 T I can handle and I don't even know what she is, shes supposed to be a rosie but doesn't quite look right. She's as docile as a rock and about as active


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## kitty_b (Apr 13, 2006)




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## Mr.Extreme (Jan 19, 2007)

ihandle mine all the time what i do is move it, i put my hand in there and take my other hand and use my index finder and touch his spinnerttes and it moves forward and goes on my hand thn i clean his tank. its easy and safe if u r still afraid u can go to a store thats sells gardning things and buy gloves NO RUBBER OR PLASTIC easy way to kill your tarantula if it bites the glove buy a cloth one thick cloth if u want ill take a pick of the type of gloves i use and make sure the gloves u have are new and not been use to touch other things


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## snoflax (Jan 19, 2007)

I don't handle mine, for thier sake I feel it is healthier that I don't. If I were to drop one and injure it or worse I would feel awful.  That isn't to say I don't touch any of them.  I will occasionally pet the A.avic.,and twice I have had to help one of my T's out of a bad molt. But I do not pick them up or carry them around. When i need to clean a tank I transfer them into a deli cup and clean the tank then transfer them back. It's much safer for them and for me.


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## kurisute_hasu (Jan 20, 2007)

I dont handle my T. My Rosea is insane would probably tag me. 
She makes it clear she is look but no touch. 
And as brave as I try to be, I am still a little phobic of spiders so...yeah.


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## Vermis (Jan 20, 2007)

I don't.  Well, maybe my Brachypelmas, but that's so infrequent it barely counts.
I'm not daft enough to handle my old word Ts (despite various photos and pointers and assurances posted here), and most of the time I just have no compulsion to handle the more docile ones.  The latter are easily herded into cricket tubs with my hand, and luckily the former are easily herded into cricket tubs with long tweezers.


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## Mister T (Jan 20, 2007)

I personally never handle my T's.1.simply because most of my T's are pokies and 2.I prefer to not give them any more stress or risk them accidently being injured because of my desire to hold them.

When I do tank maintenance,for my more aggressive T's,I plan it on a feeding day.Throw a couple cricks in and wait til they have begun eating.Then I do any tank maintenance I need to do .This method has never failed me yet even with the most aggressive of my T's.They are already occupied with some good grubbin's:}


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## Count Tarantula (Jan 20, 2007)

*I'm with the NEVERS*

I do everything I can to not handle my T's. Its not worth getting bit or dropping the T. The only T's of mine i've handled are my G. rosea's and my A. avic's.;P


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## fartkowski (Jan 20, 2007)

i don't handle mine 
i am pretty confident about putting my hand in my g. rosea's cage
but the other guys i use 12 " tweezers and a wash bottle used in labs to fill the water dishes.
i also find that a pair of long needle nose pliers is good for removing the water dish if i have to clean it
 i use those for my cobalt and OBT


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## arrowhd (Jan 20, 2007)

I don't handle mine.  Since we are on the subject of maintaince.... I need to purchase some tweezers or forceps.  I would rather not spend a ton of money.  Does anyone have any ideas of were to buy reasonably priced tools that would be appropriate for cage maintainance?


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## Selenops (Jan 20, 2007)

Mister T said:


> I personally never handle my T's.1.simply because most of my T's are pokies and 2.I prefer to not give them any more stress or risk them accidently being injured because of my desire to hold them.
> 
> When I do tank maintenance,for my more aggressive T's,I plan it on a feeding day.Throw a couple cricks in and wait til they have begun eating.Then I do any tank maintenance I need to do .This method has never failed me yet even with the most aggressive of my T's.They are already occupied with some good grubbin's:}


Me and the Hap have a great thing going wouldn't want to spoil it due to stressing her unnecessarily. And simply the fact you do not handle this species.

I do have a tight-jawed female rosea (but fortunately, not a hair-kicker) which I readily pick up by pinching the cephalothorax with forefinger and thumb.

More Ts will be under my care soon though none handable. In fact I don't handle any of my inverts because I enjoy a happy healthy self-absorbed pet that is feeding and active.

Against handling and frankly experience no compulsion to do it.

As far as tank maintenance is concerned, well, the Hap is a night owl. Sometimes I drop crickets in there in mid-afternoon and they kick it but by dawn they're gone. No worries though.


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## bushbuster (Jan 20, 2007)

Being new to this hobby, I've never touched a Tarantula, except for Larry, my Lasiodora parahybana sling. Don't really plan on it, either, after reading about flickin hairs and agressive tendencies, lol. I find a 3cc syringe with a 20 gauge needle attached works great for topping off water containers, from a distance!


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## Arachnokid 93 (Jan 21, 2007)

I handle only the most non- agresiv tarantulas. Rose hair chaco golden knee and so on


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## verry_sweet (Jan 21, 2007)

I have handled mine in the past but decided against it so except for a sling here and there I never handle mine anymore.


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## MelGibson (May 6, 2008)

i handle most of my Ts. My rosies, payson blondes, any of my Avicularia spp will never bite no matter what i do and i have no fear of dropping them because of thier claws which will cling on to you good enough for you to hold em upside down (which you should never do)!!!!! but the Avicularia spp can be fast and will jump out of your hands so watch out! my L.Parahibana is handleable but i dont hold him much cause he just runs to my back. my P. marinus and H. lividum are just too scary for me to hold. one day ill get over the fear tho. I HOPE :liar:


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## AubZ (May 6, 2008)

I will handle most of my T's, but the ones that demand respect get given it.  And it is better to leave them alone.


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## saminthemiddle (May 6, 2008)

Actually, I think that handling or at least interacting with your animals to a certain extent is a good thing. I think that the interaction helps the keeper feel for the animal witch makes the keeper care more about their animals. In the end the animal gets better care because of it.

I draw the line when the interaction is overly stressful or dangerous for the animal, though.

Always the best of care when picking up my babies <3 I love them soooo much and would hate to see something happen to them.


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## citizen_smithi (May 6, 2008)

saminthemiddle said:


> Actually, I think that handling or at least interacting with your animals to a certain extent is a good thing. I think that the interaction helps the keeper feel for the animal witch makes the keeper care more about their animals. In the end the animal gets better care because of it.
> 
> I draw the line when the interaction is overly stressful or dangerous for the animal, though.
> 
> Always the best of care when picking up my babies <3 I love them soooo much and would hate to see something happen to them.


Exactly the same here - just last night I was rehousing my juve N colloratovilosus (2"), and it was the first time i'd had to handle her (just feel it in my bones it's a girl, dunno why!) and immediately after "she" had takne her fat scruffy little bum off my hand into her new digs, she officially became the cutest little creature on Earth! Not that her care was substandard before or anything, but like you say it gives you the feeling of a "bond" with 'em when they've spent time walking around on your "trusted" paws!

I don't really handle them unless they're small and still slow, or if they happen to be walking up the side and then I might let 'em on my hand, but I never go and just start messing with 'em or yanking them outta their homes coz I feel like holding 'em, because I think "that'd p me off if i was a Tarantula! so I leave them be.


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## Tuwin (May 6, 2008)

I have 7 T's and i have never held or handled any of them. When i was putting my Versicolor in her new home she jolted up my arm and i had to pick her up to get her into her home but other than that i have never handled my T's


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## becca81 (May 6, 2008)

I don't handle mine.  

I'm not saying that if one got loose or whatever I'd go out of my way to not pick it up, but I don't handle mine on a regular basis at all.  

I'm not really scared of being bitten or anything and I've held some in the past, but since I keep mainly NW, I don't enjoy having hairs all over me.

If I have to do transfer or anything, I use a cup and a piece of cardboard.


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## Archnophil (May 6, 2008)

Im new at the keeping aspect of Ts but i dont plan to handle mine ever....If i need to i will and i have handled Ts before. But i dont see the enjoyment in streessing the animal and causing an accident that could have just as easily been avioded.


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## Travis K (May 6, 2008)

Blahhh,

I handle some of my T's and have respecctfully "Held" others.  It just depends on the T and the type of species.  My am very cautious and respectful of the OW T's, it's better to look at those ones and not touch.


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## Setian (May 6, 2008)

I don't really handle mine much. I have a female avic that I have taken out to show people here and there but the novelty kinda wore of fast. Having said that  I see no problems with people handling them. There is a lot of high and mighty people that will tell you what to do and what not to, but they are your Ts so I feel its up to the owner.
Might just be my Libertarian streak.

To handle or not to handle may be the question, but the only answer that matters is your own.

My 2 cents


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## Atrax1207 (May 6, 2008)

I handle all of my T's too, but for cage cleaning I use 6 inch tweezers and 5" brush.


Bye


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## ttula (May 6, 2008)

I dont handle mine. I use tweezers and tupperware for maintenance and rehousing. I have to say I dont have any problem feeling for them without handling them...


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## LEGERE (May 6, 2008)

I only own a G Rosea right now and she's very friendly-like. I handle her occasionally like some on here to show her to a friend or my son or even just to admire her beauty. She's pretty curious when I go in and usually walks right on my hand without much asking. She seems to know when she's back in her home because she will slowly and calmly walk off and go look around for her favorite corner.

I may be doing things differently than others but I know this works with her. I would never try with some of the other T's I've seen on here for fear of it getting loose of getting bitten. With her I'm comfortable and I think she is comfortable with me. 

Good luck in finding the answers you're looking for!


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## unitard311 (May 7, 2008)

i held my g. rosea once at the store. i just tried again but she freaked me out, i just don't have the nerve to keep my hand in there when she outs up her legs and moves towards me haha. well not yet....


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## Shagrath666 (Sep 29, 2008)

i had to handle my male G. rosea, at first i didnt want to because every time i tried to move him with the cup method he would get aggro on me until one day when i had to clean the tank he tagged my thumb while i was holding the cup in front of him. I found out, he hates the cup and the cup only, its like a giant evil moving borrow to him, but if i just use my hands, he knows what they are and willingly goes along for the ride. funny, he hates that cup with a passion


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## Faunya (Sep 29, 2008)

Not a fan of handling...I have a pretty wicked reaction to urticating hair (blisters, then skin peeling, intense itching for weeks).  I'll do so if absolutely necessary, but otherwise, I keep Ts like I do fish.


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## Fluke (Sep 29, 2008)

I handled my 10inch MM blondi a few times when I saw he was out walking around. I hold all my other ones too- you can tell when they want to be held or not- If they act edgy then I just leave them be. They don't get anything out of it and I just get a slight thrill. Suprisingly, uritating hairs don't do ANYTHING to me- which is esp weird because I have sensitive skin


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## unitard311 (Sep 29, 2008)

ok so in my last post i wasn't down with holding her. however, after my trip to the reptile fair i learned that there isn't anything to be worried about. now i hold my rosie and she doesn't appear to hate it. she is very soothing and calm. it's a neat experience.


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## slinky1000 (Jan 8, 2009)

*never*

Hi,
I only have a G. Rosea, but dont handle her. i use small forceps for removing carcasses, but use my hand to remove and fill water dish, she tends to just hide when i'm messing in her tank.
ken


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## jellybean (Jan 8, 2009)

my auntie has never handled her mexican red knee and shes had it for over 17yrs, it goes crazy if you so much as look in its direction


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## white_feather (Jan 8, 2009)

I used to handle mine but I no longer do that.


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## Wickedreptile (Jan 8, 2009)

I don't handle mine. I am afraid they will get hurt. I use tweesers and forcerps and coke bottle methad to do maintence.


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## wedge07 (Mar 5, 2009)

I normally just prod them gently with my hand to the other end of their home.  Neither one bothers me at all while cleaning.  Gimli has to be picked up hes too stubborn to be prodded most times but I normally leave them within their enclosures.


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## Sky`Scorcher (Mar 5, 2009)

I handle my T's, but ONLY cage maintenance and Its a good photo op. too  

For cleaning dead crickets, cleaning the water dish and getting them out I use tongs, a paintbrush and for the ones that like to climb on them to bite me or run away, I use a stick. Thick enough to push them out but thin enough to not climb on.
My Lividum seems to comply with my stick more than my brush so she's kinda easy to get on my hand or any container. She goes ballistic on my brush


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## Moultmaster (Mar 5, 2009)

Here's one of my favourite ladies to handle:


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## RoachGirlRen (Mar 5, 2009)

I don't handle mine, I tend to use tongs and cups to do all of my moving. When I first got my A. avicularia I "handled" it, by which I mean I was a novice keeper used to my boring 8+ yr old rosehair and did not expect to find the avic up my arm and on my shoulder immediately after opening the cup to put it in its new home.


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## bigdog999 (Mar 5, 2009)

I don't handle noon of my Ts, not my adult Rosie, or my two baby OBTs.


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## DansDragons (Mar 5, 2009)

i handle my avics..thats it..


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## andy375hh (Mar 5, 2009)

I dont handle any of my inverts. I look at them like fish great to look at and enjoy buy not to handle


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## Locutus (Mar 5, 2009)

I don't handle them either. I also look at them like fish; that's the reason why I enjoy decorating the adult T's enclosures.


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## nexen (Mar 5, 2009)

I dont handle my Ts anymore since I accidently killed my Rosie by transferring pesticide to her.  

Partly why I got into old world species - the venom makes me not WANT to hold them. Although my new H.mac sure is cuddly looking.


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## Moultmaster (Mar 6, 2009)

nexen said:


> I dont handle my Ts anymore since I accidently killed my Rosie by transferring pesticide to her.
> 
> Partly why I got into old world species - the venom makes me not WANT to hold them. Although my new H.mac sure is cuddly looking.


Who wouldn't wanna hold this beauty?


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## nexen (Mar 6, 2009)

Moultmaster said:


> Who wouldn't wanna hold this beauty?


Isn't that a P.regalis? Me. I don't want to hold a P.regalis


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## halfwaynowhere (Mar 6, 2009)

I only handle my rosie, when I bring her out to do educational presentations. I see no need to handle them otherwise. It just stresses them out, and U-hairs don't agree with me, anyways.


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## jeff1962 (Mar 6, 2009)

Its an old thread but I'll bite.


 I hold my my A. Chalcodes, G. Aust. and  one of my rose hairs.

 The rest of mine are either hair kicking brachys or to prone to bite.

 I'm not big on holding my T.s anyway, they don't really like it. I see these videos of people doing it and for the most part the T. is just stressed out.

 I know people will disagree, but  alot of the time,with the younger male crowd its just a macho thing " hey look at me I am so cool I can handle my OBT" or other aggresive T.

 I could hold my Brachys if I wanted ,I just prefer the look of them without bald behinds.

 But as they say, to each his own.


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## mattie (Mar 6, 2009)

Moultmaster said:


> Who wouldn't wanna hold this beauty?


imo it shouldnt be "who wouldnt want to hold this", but "would this want to be held" and in the case of any T the answer is no, if someone holds a T and gets bit well it was there descision and they know the risk, i really couldnt care less, the only thing is after receiving a bite chances are your gonna flinch and the already stressed T is gonna bolt, usually to the floor. imo holding a T is putting that animal at risk, if we put any other animal in a high risk situation chances are we would face prosucution, why should a T be any differant? does it not deserve the same rights as any other creature?  I see this as a bit of a oxymoron on one hand we are saying Ts are a miss understood animal and deserve respect, but on the other hand are disrespecting them ourselves, doesnt make sense to me

just my two cents 
Matthew Davies


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## venomous.com (Mar 6, 2009)

I never handle anything. They aren't puppies and I highly doubt they want to be 'petted'


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## Scorpendra (Mar 6, 2009)

the closest thing i do to handling would be trapping them in tuppawares so i can clean the tank, which is usually only when i redesign the tank.

there's only one tarantula i've ever let out of her cage (to take pics), and i put up so much barricading around her, it was funny. she was very cooperative, i'll have to do it again sometime.


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## Moultmaster (Mar 7, 2009)

nexen said:


> Isn't that a P.regalis? Me. I don't want to hold a P.regalis


P. Formosa, but hardly as cute as this one:


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## nexen (Mar 7, 2009)

Moultmaster said:


> P. Formosa, but hardly as cute as this one:


Thats more like it! What species is that fine looking T?


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## Moultmaster (Mar 7, 2009)

nexen said:


> Thats more like it! What species is that fine looking T?



   Wish I knew, bought it as unidentified.  I've narrowed it down somewhat I think to either Chilobrachys dyscopus or selenocosmia javanensis.  But if anyone else can determine the species by the pic feel free to chime in.  All I know is it's aggressive as hell.


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## MizM (Mar 7, 2009)

I have totally lost most of my photos!! But I've handled Poecilotheria, Pterinochilus, Hysterocrates, Haplopelma, Theraphosa, in addition to my more calm and "pet rock" species. It depends on the temperament of the invidual, I had one H. lividum that acted like a curly hair and others that I would not dare approach. I am a definite proponent of handling, for me, it's like watching fish..... very calming.


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## the nature boy (Mar 7, 2009)

I don't waste my time handling docile Ts.


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## Paramite (Mar 7, 2009)

Haplopelmas etc really calm down when you take them out of their enclosures, so it's not a big deal to handle them. But I'd love to see someone handle my C. crawshayi. She's the same psycho everywhere.


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## the nature boy (Mar 7, 2009)

Paramite said:


> Haplopelmas etc really calm down when you take them out of their enclosures, so it's not a big deal to handle them. But I'd love to see someone handle my C. crawshayi. She's the same psycho everywhere.


I wish you lived closer.


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## Paramite (Mar 7, 2009)

Well, we would get one more post to the bite report thread.

Seriously, she's the only the I've ever had that won't calm down, no matter what you do. When I received the shipment from Germany couple of years ago, I almost got fanged when I opened the box.


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## the nature boy (Mar 7, 2009)

Paramite said:


> Well, we would get one more post to the bite report thread.
> 
> Seriously, she's the only the I've ever had that won't calm down, no matter what you do. When I received the shipment from Germany couple of years ago, I almost got fanged when I opened the box.


Lol!  She's definitely a keeper.


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## Paramite (Mar 7, 2009)

What I don't get it is why someone wants to handle extremely fast arboreals, as you can't really call it handling. It's more like "I'll let it run a maraton on my body." 

I've handled Psalmopoeus and Poecilotheria, but I don't do it anymore.


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## the nature boy (Mar 7, 2009)

Paramite said:


> What I don't get it is why someone wants to handle extremely fast arboreals, as you can't really call it handling. It's more like "I'll let it run a maraton on my body."
> 
> I've handled Psalmopoeus and Poecilotheria, but I don't do it anymore.


To feel and study them and the way the move and behave.  And wonder if they're going to bite the bleep out of you, lol.


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## UrbanJungles (Mar 7, 2009)

Dozens and dozens of T's in my collection and none of them are ever handled. I prefer to look but not touch.  Even my rosies. I think that because I've been keeping them for so long I've gotten over the novelty of it and the risks outweigh the benefit.


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## jr47 (Mar 7, 2009)

I rarely ever handle mine. I love to watch them. I feel the less interaction is better. They dont want me to pick them up and I see no good reason to. I actually like it but I also think the danger of them being hurt and the stress on them isnt worth it.
          Besides I enjoy watching them and the more content and secure they feel the more natural they are going to behave. If every time they poke out they are picked up or disturbed the more they are going to stay hidden.


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## MizM (Mar 7, 2009)

jr47 said:


> If every time they poke out they are picked up or disturbed the more they are going to stay hidden.


Nope, they don't hide, even the ones that are handled almost on a daily basis. They don't "hate" it, they don't "love" it, seems they just accept it. Or perhaps they know the calming effect they have on me, who knows?  Maybe they just think that I'm substrate that moves!


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## Diggy415 (Mar 7, 2009)

ive handeled my rosea decades ago, but no one else will get handeled, when i changed some of the cages, my hand broke out in red itchy things and hasn't been the same since, and even if my hands were not effected i don't feel comfortable handeling them, i freak if they move too fast, and you can't pet them, so why bother.


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## B-fish (Mar 8, 2009)

I handle all my T's not on a regular basis though, I think the last time i have held one of my T's is like 3 months ago. I usually just like to look. But if handling is needed then its needed.


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## jr47 (Mar 8, 2009)

MizM said:


> Nope, they don't hide, even the ones that are handled almost on a daily basis. They don't "hate" it, they don't "love" it, seems they just accept it. Or perhaps they know the calming effect they have on me, who knows?  Maybe they just think that I'm substrate that moves!


         Thats good to know. I will take your word. And I wont feel so bad when I do handle mine. But my hand is still going no where near my C. huahini.


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## Locutus (Mar 8, 2009)

Paramite said:


> When I received the shipment from Germany couple of years ago, I almost got fanged when I opened the box.


Man, I'm receiving one big female next friday     ... I will take all precautions when opening the box. My first 'Queen Baboon', you know...


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## Pastskater (Mar 8, 2009)

Well, it is true, I have never held my "Godfrey" and am willing to bite the bullet and do it.  I have few in the past and he being the least of the worring sort "Rose hair"...he is an adult 3 year old and in possible final stages of life.  I have had him sexed and am not really wishing to make him more of a enbittered spider, he being on a mission or "Suicide boy" what I call him, because he won't be mating and then killed or just killed or eaten, I feel that it would not be fair:wall: 


Might I do it for him to get to know me?
might we do it to over come my fear, because of his situation, as well as his age?:8o :? Might I do this to show my little one it is time for us to learn him, and our fears?  She is 2 1/2 and she loves spiders, and that is why the last sentence is then up...for her and me to begin to learn more of these beautiful creatures
What to do?
I am posting this because you have asked for our kind to reply 

Now, I seek my destiny of a vivarium paradise with a tropical spider,(for me to build) and questions to be asked by me and the answers I hope some can provide.


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## gambite (Mar 8, 2009)

I probably already posted in here, but I dont handle my T's much at all, and when I do it is only the ones I know I dont need to worry about much, like my Brachys, Avics, and G rosea's. As awesome as my H macs, Haplos, OBTs, E utaumon, etc., all are, I am content to watch them through the tank.


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## dragyn5 (Mar 21, 2009)

*Lost photos...*

I can have Alan look and see what photos he has and I can email them to you.

Heidi


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## m3z (Mar 21, 2009)

I handle all 15 of mine. It just depends on the mood of my spiders i have a cobalt that i handle and a orange unsambara some of the meanest spiders there are so you should really get to know your spiders before you handle them


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## MizM (Mar 21, 2009)

dragyn5 said:


> I can have Alan look and see what photos he has and I can email them to you.
> 
> Heidi


I have the disk you gave me with all the photos on it.... but everything is still in storage!!!


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## burmish101 (Mar 21, 2009)

For me the novelty of handling wore off years ago. Mind you i'll poke and prod any of my new world t's around with my hands so I can get them from point A to point B lots quicker (yay for venom that weilds the power of the q-tip!) but due to getting around 9 bites or so mostly from old worlders I learned pretty fast to keep my hands well away from those guys LOL ;P


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## Lennie Collins (Mar 21, 2009)

burmish101 said:


> For me the novelty of handling wore off years ago. Mind you i'll poke and prod any of my new world t's around with my hands so I can get them from point A to point B lots quicker (yay for venom that weilds the power of the q-tip!) but due to getting around 9 bites or so mostly from old worlders I learned pretty fast to keep my hands well away from those guys LOL ;P


Never owned Old World Tarantulas BUT agree with you on the first part of your post. I handle mine mostly now to show friends that tarantulas are not out to seek and bite(destroy) humans.


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## wedge07 (Mar 21, 2009)

My newest acquisition my B. albo is a teddy bear.  I love to handle this guy.  But now that he has his little burrow built I rarely see him.  My avic is fairly easy to handle, just a little speedy not too bad.  Rosa is way too skittish but I can't say I am afraid of her.  I still use my bare hands to clean her enclosure, she just needs a little nudge to move.  I really think her little displays are kind of cute and funny, she thinks shes a big bad Pokie or something.  

I think I need some more Ts.


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## Neophyte (Mar 21, 2009)

I used to like handling my T's because it gave me a bit of a rush. These days I'm more interested in observing them them anything else and prefer to leave them alone.

The more educated I got, the more nervous they made me I guess.

I have a friend who comes over every now and then and likes to play around with them. I just watch her  That's enough for me.


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## myTwilleatU12 (Jan 29, 2010)

*Handling?*

I think handling your T's is up to you not a decision that should be made by others its your tarantula! In my opinion if you do handle be very careful and take all the safety precautions while doing it.


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## BatGirl (Jan 29, 2010)

*handle some... some I would never even consider!*

I've let all my tarantula's out to play by letting them climb around on me (see: http://home.earthlink.net/~firebat007/Romana3.AVI, on the lacy canopy of my bed (the white lace looks like webbing, heh, heh), but only one at a time... however, one of my collection NEVER gets handled:

My Burmese Cobalt Blue - way too poisonous and extremely aggressive, mean, vicious, etc. This is an old world species which can cause severe injury and/or death (and let's not get into it here on the death thing... see: http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=141183&page=13 pages 13-15 for more info).

Advice ~ consider handling *ONLY* new world tarantulas gently and cautiously so as not to startle them, and be REAL careful of the skiddish ones (like the Costa Rican Zebra - aka PetCo's "venuzian tiger" which is an erroneous  made-up name!). Make sure you wash your hands before and after, and *ALWAYS *keep it away from your eyes - never blow or breath on them. As far as old world tarantulas - don't even consider it!!! Just say *NO!*

It took all my nerve just to help my Cobalt Blue with her last molt - a fluke at best, but even then I never 'handled' her. (see:http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=170564)


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## UrbanJungles (Jan 29, 2010)

BatGirl said:


> I've let all my tarantula's out to play by letting them climb around on me (see: http://home.earthlink.net/~firebat007/Romana3.AVI, on the lacy canopy of my bed (the white lace looks like webbing, heh, heh), but only one at a time... however, one of my collection NEVER gets handled:
> 
> My Burmese Cobalt Blue - way too poisonous and extremely aggressive, mean, vicious, etc. This is an old world species which can cause severe injury and/or death (and let's not get into it here on the death thing... see: http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=141183&page=13 pages 13-15 for more info).


Cobalt Blues aren't deadly...seriously now.


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## xhexdx (Jan 29, 2010)

Yeah...how can you flat out say they can cause death and then request we don't get in to it here?

They're also not aggressive.  Or poisonous.  They're *venomous*.

And where'd you get the 'Burmese' part from?  Just call them H. lividum like we do in the hobby. :}


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## ClosedBook (Jan 29, 2010)

*Handling*

Out of my 34 I only handle two. My A. avicularia and my A. metallica.


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## JimM (Jan 29, 2010)

xhexdx said:


> Yeah...how can you flat out say they can cause death and then request we don't get in to it here?
> 
> They're also not aggressive.  Or poisonous.  They're *venomous*.
> 
> And where'd you get the 'Burmese' part from?  Just call them H. lividum like we do in the hobby. :}


LOL, that was my reaction.
"It can kill you, but please, let's not get into that here" 

I hate the LOL emoticon here, it looks snarky.
We need this one


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## Xian (Jan 29, 2010)

xhexdx said:


> Yeah...how can you flat out say they can cause death and then request we don't get in to it here?
> 
> They're also not aggressive.  Or poisonous.  They're *venomous*.
> 
> And where'd you get the 'Burmese' part from?  Just call them H. lividum like we do in the hobby. :}


I agree Joe. Seems some people don't recognize the difference between a venomous death or a death caused by a secondary infection.(referring back to the other thread.)

_H. lividum_ could at least be referred to with a correct common name, it's not Burma, they are from The Union of Myanmar.


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## JimM (Jan 29, 2010)

Listen, P. ornata will pull your arm off and beat you with it, but let's not get into that here.


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## xhexdx (Jan 29, 2010)

jimm said:


> listen, p. Ornata will pull your arm off and beat you with it, but let's not get into that here.


rofl          !


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## BatGirl (Jan 29, 2010)

xhexdx said:


> Yeah...how can you flat out say they can cause death and then request we don't get in to it here?


Dear Mr. Denial: Did not say they _WILL _cause death, just that they _CAN_. All old would species _CAN _cause extreme harm or in rare cases death. And as far as the 'don't get into it here' hint - it is because SOME are so obsessive in their denial that a tarantula from any place on the planet or time could _EVER _cause any death (or that all tarantula deaths are from some sort of infection - broken record alert!) as noted in the link provided... just recommending that we just keep the 'off topic' stuff there and not here shall we? Oops, too late 



xhexdx said:


> They're also not aggressive.  Or poisonous.  They're *venomous*.


Webster definition #1 for venom = poisonous :?

See 'The Guide to Owning a Tarantula' by Jerry G Walls, picture on pg.19, which indicates "...dangerously aggressive..." (and based upon my experience owning three of them, this is confirmed - but perhaps that is too anecdotal for some, heh, heh):razz:



xhexdx said:


> And where'd you get the 'Burmese' part from?  Just call them H. lividum like we do in the hobby. :}


This is the where they are from, Burma, and this is the common name issued by the "Committee on Common Names of Arachnids of the American Arachnological Society". So, go pound sand if I use this name...


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## BatGirl (Jan 29, 2010)

Xian said:


> it's not Burma, they are from The Union of Myanmar.


I recognize neither the legitimacy of the ruling military government nor its authority to rename the country... it is Burma, and the OFFICIAL common name of the tarantula _is _Burmese Cobalt Blue. ;P

btw - the local dictatorship call it "Myanmar Naingngandaw" (brain disengagement alert!)


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## BatGirl (Jan 29, 2010)

JimM said:


> Listen, P. ornata will pull your arm off and beat you with it, but let's not get into that here.


So, exactly _WHERE _do we get into that arm pulling thing if not here? 

(I think someone is pulling someone's leg though...)


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## BatGirl (Jan 29, 2010)

burmish101 said:


> For me the novelty of handling wore off years ago. Mind you i'll poke and prod any of my new world t's around with my hands so I can get them from point A to point B lots quicker (yay for venom that weilds the power of the q-tip!) but due to getting around 9 bites or so mostly from old worlders I learned pretty fast to keep my hands well away from those guys LOL ;P


After getting nailed 9 times - no wonder the novelty 'wore off'!

Just curious - how many of the 9 were old world, what type tarantulas were they, and how did your 'experience' go - were most the lucky 'dry' bites?

(I've never been bitten by a tarantula. Bitten by plenty of snake, but no tarantulas... knock-on-wood)


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## Ms.X (Jan 29, 2010)

BatGirl said:


> Webster definition #1 for venom = poisonous :?


In order to prevent the spread of further misinformation by the uninformed:
Yes, venom may contain "poison", but venom is injected.  Poison is ingested or absorbed.  And as you would say, let's not get into the aggressive vs. defensive debate here, that's been overdone.  I do handle some of my collection in order to take photographs or perform maintenance, but generally the only time I handle is during rehousing.


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## xhexdx (Jan 30, 2010)

BatGirl said:


> Dear Mr. Denial:


Dear Ms. <edit>:

I took the liberty of running a search through this entire site (which has been in existence longer than your membership here) for 'Burmese Cobalt Blue'.  It turns out, there are a whopping *TEN POSTS* where someone refers to them as such; 6 are from you, 1 is a quote from one of your posts, and three are other random users.

When there are over 26,000 members and over 1.4-million posts, yet only three of you are referring to them as 'Burmese Cobalt Blue', then I'm sorry, but you're flat-out wrong.

Here is the search, in case you'd like to see for yourself:

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/search.php?searchid=2085973

The following is an example of how to quote someone multiple times in *ONE* post, for future reference:



BatGirl said:


> Dear Mr. Denial: Did not say they _WILL _cause death, just that they _CAN_. All old would species _CAN _cause extreme harm or in rare cases death.


If you see my quote below, never did I state they *WILL* cause death:



xhexdx said:


> Yeah...how can you flat out say they can cause death and then request we don't get in to it here?


Your explanation is just as valid as saying a splinter *CAN* cause death (in rare cases, right?) 



BatGirl said:


> And as far as the 'don't get into it here' hint - it is because SOME are so obsessive in their denial that a tarantula from any place on the planet or time could _EVER _cause any death (or that all tarantula deaths are from some sort of infection - broken record alert!) as noted in the link provided...


Didn't you learn that using 'and' to begin a sentence is incorrect?

Maybe you posted it to begin with because *you're* the obsessive one?



BatGirl said:


> just recommending that we just keep the 'off topic' stuff there and not here shall we? Oops, too late


If you wanted to keep it off topic, you never should have mentioned it.  In your own words:



BatGirl said:


> Oops, too late


Moving forward...



BatGirl said:


> Webster definition #1 for venom = poisonous :?


Ms.X already addressed this.  I'll add...without links as references or any other evidence of any sort, your babble is exactly that:  Babble.  I'll also add dictionary.com's definition of venom:

ven⋅om [ven-uhm] 

–noun 1. the poisonous fluid that some animals, as certain snakes and spiders, secrete and introduce into the bodies of their victims by biting, stinging, etc. 

Link:  http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/venom

Using this definition, spiders would be considered *venomous*.



BatGirl said:


> See 'The Guide to Owning a Tarantula' by Jerry G Walls, picture on pg.19, which indicates "...dangerously aggressive..." (and based upon my experience owning three of them, this is confirmed - but perhaps that is too anecdotal for some, heh, heh):razz:


Would you mind completing your quote, please?  Would you mind also using a source that we would consider valid?  This book was copyrighted in 2003, and is a tad outdated (in my opinion.)



BatGirl said:


> This is the where they are from, Burma, and this is the common name issued by the "Committee on Common Names of Arachnids of the American Arachnological Society". So, go pound sand if I use this name...


Again...reference?



BatGirl said:


> I recognize neither the legitimacy of the ruling military government nor its authority to rename the country... it is Burma, and the OFFICIAL common name of the tarantula _is _Burmese Cobalt Blue. ;P
> 
> btw - the local dictatorship call it "Myanmar Naingngandaw" (brain disengagement alert!)


You should send Avicularia Man a PM; you two would get along wonderfully.


----------



## BatGirl (Jan 30, 2010)

Thanks, Debby :clap:



xhexdx said:


> 26,000 members and over 1.4-million posts


Response is pretty much out of context - seems like you _mean _there's 1.4 mil posts that do not use the term burmese cobalt blue and only 3 of them besides mine that do... well yes, considering 99% + of these 1.4 mil are not even addressing this species, the comparison is irrelivant as is this rant. Let's send you out to do some homework, young man. How many of the 1.4 mil are even on the subject of this species? (Men, always doing things the hard way...)

(why the obsession on this namaing convention as well is beyond me - common name verses scientific name - signifies real maturity? or do we just attack everything one says if that person mentions the possibility of "death by tarantula bite", and I DON'T mean death by infection - more signs of obsession?) 



xhexdx said:


> Didn't you learn that using 'and' to begin a sentence is incorrect?


Literary critics! ...and they are a dime a dozen ;P

*Extract:* About being 'obsessive' over mentioning the occurrance that a tarantula's, hmmm, let's use the term_ "neurotoxic substance with digestive enzymes that may affect the human nervous system, causing dizziness, difficulty breathing, nausea, blurred vision and muscle rigidity, and kill tissue surrounding the bite"_ just to be more descriptive and avoid the more obscure dictionary quotes, may cause death - seems that all one has to do is just mention this in passing and the obsessive lurkers come out of the woodwork and attack the individual mentioning it, and about anything else that individual may say just to be nurotic about it. The denial that a tarantula 'bite' had or could ever caused a death (and the subsequent attacking the individual over the subject and everything else that individual may say) may be a symptom of a psychological processes where the fear of dying, from whatever source, is displaced by this combating of those fear processes using a crisis group think, present in the handling of so many crises, which are:
�� Incomplete survey of the denial group's objectives and alternative courses of action.
�� Not examining the risks of the preferred choice.
�� Poor/incomplete search for relevant information.
�� Selective bias in processing information at hand.
�� Not reappraising rejected alternatives.
�� Not developing contingency plans for the failure of actions agreed by the denial group.
And (literary alert! sentence starting with 'and') the common denominator is that the denial team handling their denial crisis:
�� Initially plays it down. There is no evidence that the death from a bite have ever been systematically proven, but in probably a far less structured way the best case answer to this would have been assumed, even if not actually expressed. At this stage the crisis handlers are merely interpreting the meagre information that they have - but they are doing it with the strong influence of denial of a potential trauma and often with the help of group think.
�� Ignores, or at least heavily discounts, any new incoming information that contradicts the optimistic view that they first formed. By now the team will be communicating their optimism to this all they can, even presenting alternative widespread theories before they have been substantiated – no true deaths except by a fluke of some infection.
�� Finally, when the wealth of evidence is overwhelming, the crisis group swings into line in one of three ways:
1. By underplaying the significance of the change of direction
2. Quietly changes (most common)
3. Grossly over-compensates (attack everything the individual says besides the death thing). It may not be a coincidence that over-compensation seems to take place most often when those concerned think they will not suffer for the over-compensation.

So, by casually mentioning in an internet thread that one does not handle an old world species because it _can_ cause severe injury and/or death, and even simultaneously indicating that there could be an attack on this view that needs not be repeated in the thread - this makes this individual 'obsessive' ... and that the denial group who swoop in and attack this view and everything else this individual says are in no way even close to being obsessive - well, it appears that communicating to those with an obsessive denial syndrome may be fruitless, for someone more professional may be warranted...


----------



## xhexdx (Jan 30, 2010)

BatGirl said:


> Response is pretty much out of context - seems like you _mean _there's 1.4 mil posts that do not use the term burmese cobalt blue and only 3 of them besides mine that do... well yes, considering 99% + of these 1.4 mil are not even addressing this species, the comparison is irrelivant as is this rant. Let's send you out to do some homework, young man. How many of the 1.4 mil are even on the subject of this species? (Men, always doing things the hard way...)


Considering every post of yours that mentions this species is not in a thread that is specific to that species, I'd say it's relevant.

Would you like me to run a search for just 'Cobalt Blue' for comparison, since you obviously are not able to do so?

Even then, the search maxes out at 250 relevant posts, so it's not an accurate method of determining the actual percentage.  Even if there were only 250 posts that had the words 'Cobalt Blue' in them, you're still looking at only 4% using the word 'Burmese' as well.  

If you'd care to address the rest of my above post, I'd really appreciate it.  The fact that you didn't only proves my point.

Focusing on the meaning of 'obsessive' instead of the subject at hand seems a bit...obsessive, doesn't it?


----------



## BatGirl (Jan 30, 2010)

xhexdx said:


> If you'd care to address the rest of my above post, I'd really appreciate it.


I'm sure you would... but I shall not feed into the gross over-compensation of obsessive denial syndrome. Seems like you proved my point, eh?

btw - not every post of mine mentions this species - more gross over-compensation distortions!


----------



## xhexdx (Jan 30, 2010)

BatGirl said:


> btw - not every post of mine mentions this species - more gross over-compensation distortions!


Oh boy...you ask me to do my homework, yet you neglect yours.

This is what I said:



xhexdx said:


> Considering every post of yours *that mentions this species *is not in a thread that is specific to that species


----------



## BatGirl (Jan 30, 2010)

Thanks for pointing that out, so let us actually address the response then 



xhexdx said:


> Considering every post of yours that mentions this species is not in a thread that is specific to that species


Mentioning a species in a thread not specific to that species is a rule?:worship:

The mentions were in threads specific to either:

a) threads on old world species, which brumese cobalt blue is an old world species (didn't realize any specific species was the purpose of the thread - OH, it wasn't!)

b) threads on not handling tarantulas, which is good advice when it comes to old world species, which again the brumese cobalt blue is an old world species (again, didn't realize any specific species was the purpose of this thread either... hey, what's going on here? Is this a rule or what!?!)

and on homework, indeed some of my posts on this species _*were *_on this species like:

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?p=1578548#post1578548

and

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?p=1578892#post1578892

...and, I seem to be falling again into feeding into the gross over-compensation of obsessive denial syndrome - sheesh, soooo crafty!


----------



## Zoltan (Jan 30, 2010)

Hello BatGirl,

Just let me ask: what do you base your statement "old world tarantulas can cause death" on?

P.S. my question is genuine...


----------



## BatGirl (Jan 30, 2010)

*the infection spreads ;-)*



Zoltan said:


> Hello BatGirl,
> 
> Just let me ask: what do you base your statement "old world tarantulas can cause death" on?


Geeze, it's like a disease! Please tell me your question is genuine and this is not more of this obsessive denial syndrome... :wall:


----------



## Roski (Jan 30, 2010)

zoltan said:


> p.s. My question is genuine...


Lol



.


----------



## xhexdx (Jan 30, 2010)

Zoltan said:


> Hello BatGirl,
> 
> Just let me ask: what do you base your statement "old world tarantulas can cause death" on?
> 
> P.S. my question is genuine...


Hey Zoltan,

Check here:

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=141183&page=13

Pages 13-15; I think that's where she is basing the statement you mention.

--Joe


----------



## PrimalTaunt (Jan 30, 2010)

BatGirl said:


> This is the where they are from, Burma, and this is the common name issued by the "Committee on Common Names of Arachnids of the American Arachnological Society". So, go pound sand if I use this name...


Good job providing the casual viewer with false info.  I just looked that up and AAS/CNC lists the common name for H. lividum as "Cobalt Blue."  No "Burmese" in there at all.


----------



## <3exoticpets (Jan 30, 2010)

*Interesting article*

Even though it's slightly off topic, thought this was interesting and informative.  While looking to see if T's can provide a lethal bite, I found an article on the effects of spider bites in dogs and humans- venom is much more potent in canines.  
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TCS-480CH05-2&_user=10&_coverDate=03%2F15%2F2003&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1186721074&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=b90aba4be95a2c430c9906ae8e12c4ce


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## BatGirl (Jan 30, 2010)

*Thanks ! !  !*



PrimalTaunt said:


> Good job providing the casual viewer with false info.  I just looked that up and AAS/CNC lists the common name for H. lividum as "Cobalt Blue."  No "Burmese" in there at all.


And after all the grief I've given PetCo over their improper 'official' common name for the Costa Rican Zebra that they call Veneuzan Tiger, I go and do a contraction for *Burmese *blue bird spider and *Cobalt Blue *tarantula, both of which are the two most common names for the Haplopelma (Melopoeus) Lividum... Thank you PrimalTaunt for your dilligence and assistance - I think? :razz: 

Well, in my limited defense on this subject that same contraction was used on the cage I bought two of mine from, _and _is also found here: http://tcreptiles.webs.com/available.htm as: Burmese Cobalt Blue. <edit>... I guess in their defense, they probably just want to add where it was prevalent (unless we go back to grossly over-compensating  about wether it is Burma or Myanmar, eh?).:wall:


----------



## toxic667 (Jan 30, 2010)

both of my Ts are very docile and if i need to remove anything/clean the tank, i just use my hands. I do handle them, but very seldomly. I use the plastic container to get my rosea out if I need to


----------



## MrDeranged (Jan 30, 2010)

*Beautiful and unique snowflake alert*

Hi BatGirl,

Could you possibly quote or state your sources / personal experiences with any of the statements that you have made?

You can ingest any number of tarantula species with no ill effects if prepared properly.  Please note, that by prepared properly, I am referring to removing the urticating hairs from new world species.  Knowing a few people that have consumed them, I'm pretty sure they (as a whole) are not poisonous, merely venomous.  

From  the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary definition of venomous

2 : having a venom-producing gland and able to inflict a poisoned wound <venomous snakes>

Could you please direct me to any medical literature at all that lists a tarantula bite as a cause of death in a human?  In the 10+ years that I have been running this site and active in the hobby, I have yet to see one.

Unfortunately, the most recent list of common names from the AAS that I can find is from 2003.

http://www.americanarachnology.org/acn5.pdf
&
http://atshq.org/articles/acn5.pdf

I couldn't seem to find mention of a "Burmese Cobalt Blue", however, on page 11, I did find:

cobalt blue tarantula Haplopelma lividum Smith ARANEAE: Theraphosidae

and on page 22, I found:

Haplopelma lividum Smith cobalt blue tarantula ARANEAE: Theraphosidae

btw, you might want to fix your entry for "Leela" on your profile if it's correctly a Burmese Cobalt Blue.

You may also want to find more respectable sources of information than Jerry Walls tarantula books and what Petco has on their cages.

Wrong information is still wrong no matter how forcefully you argue it....... 

Scott


----------



## BatGirl (Jan 30, 2010)

*Thanks, legendary Joe*



xhexdx said:


> Check here:
> http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=141183&page=13Pages 13-15


...and do the research ~ don't just go tearing into the tidbit examples I've posted like most have because of their obsessive denial syndromes! 

Every time one gets nailed by any tarantula, and much much more so when nailed by old world tarantulas, you roll the dice on your health. The main point I was trying to make on 'handling tarantulas' before all these rants got cranked-up, is that these venomous/poisonous/neurotoxic/whatever creatures should be handled with the respect due them. The more dangerous, agressive, etc. ones like from the old world deserve a lot more respect - like the roll of their dice is just not worth the risk. And (btw - conjunctions starting a sentence to break up an otherwise run-on long sentence is literately acceptable, but discouraged...) on that other thread, the main point was that children, or rather parents, should not be told these old world species are just fine for their little suzie to play around with and go around brazenly boasting nobody has ever died from their bite - just because one is without specific concrete indisputable knowledge confirmed by all one's buddies in denial of a death. The literature suggests the old world species can be deadly, even if it is rare, and these various sources should be enough for the wise to understand the nature of the risk. :\


----------



## BatGirl (Jan 30, 2010)

*and spreads...*



MrDeranged said:


> Could you possibly quote or state your sources / personal experiences with any of the statements that you have made?


Just ANY statement? already done... I think several times now ;-)



MrDeranged said:


> You can ingest any number of tarantula species with no ill effects if prepared properly.  Please note, that by prepared properly, I am referring to removing the urticating hairs from new world species.  Knowing a few people that have consumed them, I'm pretty sure they (as a whole) are not poisonous, merely venomous. From  the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary definition of venomous 2 : having a venom-producing gland and able to inflict a poisoned wound <venomous snakes>


some just get hung up on obscure dictionary definitions... semantics! :-D



MrDeranged said:


> Could you please direct me to any medical literature at all that lists a tarantula bite as a cause of death in a human?  In the 10+ years that I have been running this site and active in the hobby, I have yet to see one.


Can you not do some research like I did (see the various items I had posted on these boards - I had no difficulty finding them...)?



MrDeranged said:


> Unfortunately, the most recent list of common names from the AAS that I can find is from 2003<inserted: this is the latest...>.
> 
> http://www.americanarachnology.org/acn5.pdf
> &
> ...


Try contracting "Burmese" Blue Bird Spider and "Cobalt Blue" Tarantula, both are the most common names in use for this species, like I apparently did and others have as well... this is so funny :-\



MrDeranged said:


> btw, you might want to fix your entry for "Leela" on your profile if it's correctly a Burmese Cobalt Blue.


done! (...and thanks for the tip - I think she KNEW it was left off! I'd gotten Max and CFB Goblin correct, just messed it up with her info)



MrDeranged said:


> You may also want to find more respectable sources of information than Jerry Walls tarantula books


and what "The Tarantula Keepers Guide" indicates, and what quite a lot of literature both published and anecdotal say.



MrDeranged said:


> and what Petco has on their cages.Wrong information is still wrong no matter how forcefully you argue it....... Scott


...and let's not forget what "The Pet Company" had on their cages, etc. - how dare these minions add the country of origin to the common name - sacrilege!!!

...hey this post number is also my badge number - cool


----------



## BatGirl (Jan 30, 2010)

toxic667 said:


> both of my Ts are very docile and if i need to remove anything/clean the tank, i just use my hands. I do handle them, but very seldomly. I use the plastic container to get my rosea out if I need to


Me, too. My rose (Lady Romana - my first) and pinktoe (Ahsoka) are both docile enough to handle without much concern... (i.e they are new world tarantulas) except Romana kinda got mean on her last molt! (hmmm, plastic container, eh...) :\



<3exoticpets said:


> Even though it's slightly off topic, thought this was interesting and informative.  While looking to see if T's can provide a lethal bite, I found an article on the effects of spider bites in dogs and humans- venom is much more potent in canines.


ouch - right thru the fingernail, WOW!

article does say "..._unlikely _to cause *major *problems in humans..." (emphasis added). So, nine rolls of the dice (let's assume no child or old person was involved), with one getting some systemic reaction (probably an old person, heh, heh). Sounds like 'unlikely' could get to become major with more rolls of the dice


----------



## Xian (Jan 30, 2010)

xhexdx said:


> you should send avicularia man a pm; you two would get along wonderfully.


rofl!!!!!!!!!!!!{d


----------



## Mack&Cass (Jan 30, 2010)

So BatGirl, do you not pet dogs or anything? Because I can sure link you many cases of dogs killing people, and the death not be from secondary infection like that one reported T death. The death was from an infection from the bite...not from the venom. You could get bit by pretty much anything, develop an infection, and left untreated...yes, it could kill you. But if your H. lividum bit you and you got an infection, I'm pretty sure you'd go to the hospital, right?

You "roll the dice with your health" no matter what pet you keep. You could get an oscar and it could bite your finger off and you could bleed out, you could get a retic and it could eat you, your cat could claw your face off, your hamster could organize an army of ants to infiltrate your body and eat it from the inside out while you sleep.

Of course these are all extremely unlikely scenarios, but so is dying from a tarantula bite.

Cass


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## Shell (Jan 30, 2010)

Mack&Cass said:


> your hamster could organize an army of ants to infiltrate your body and eat it from the inside out while you sleep.
> 
> 
> Cass


LOL  

Im pretty sure my demon hamster is trying to organize something along these lines


----------



## JimM (Jan 30, 2010)

I don't have time for this inane thread.
I have to go rehouse my Sri Lankan Long Femured Ornamental Tiger Tree Spider.


----------



## BatGirl (Jan 30, 2010)

*gross over-compensation alert... professional assistance needed?*



Mack&Cass said:


> So BatGirl, do you not pet dogs or _anything_ *(just my cockatoo)*? Because I can sure link you many cases of dogs killing people, and the death not be from secondary infection like _that one reported T death_ *(two deaths, one infection, and one loss of foot if you're talkin' about the incidents in india)*. The death was from an infection from the bite...not from the venom. You could get bit by pretty much anything, develop an infection, and left untreated...yes, _it could kill you_ *(so could this rant!)*. But if your H. lividum bit you and you got an infection, I'm pretty sure you'd go to the hospital, right? *(I have no insurance so the hospital is out. Also I'm very old, recently had surgery on my left lung and currently have extensive nerve damage and a heart issue from the surgery and lung collapse - but I'd be glad to try to die if it would please you and it would not take any infection)*
> 
> You "roll the dice with your health" no matter what pet you keep. You could get an _oscar and it could bite your finger off_ *(pretty big oscar, eh?)* and you could bleed out, you could get a retic and it could eat you, your _cat could claw your face off_ *(my cockatoo eats cat faces, so no threat there and I have no cat - got ate by the bird, heh, heh)*, _your hamster_ *(they are dwarf hamsters who could not organize their own fleas)*could organize an army of ants to infiltrate your body and eat it from the inside out _while you sleep_.
> 
> ...


I'm speechless... and agree with JimM about inane :?


----------



## Mack&Cass (Jan 30, 2010)

In case you didn't know this, in India they don't have the kind of medical help that we do here, so dying of an infection over there is a lot more likely. And saying that you dying would please me is just ridiculous. Talk about needing professional assistance...

And if anyone dies from reading my "rant", then I'll gladly pay their funeral bills. 

Try living in reality for a few minutes, you may like it.

Cass


----------



## xhexdx (Jan 30, 2010)

*Ignorance alert*

When you try to argue with someone as ignorant and stubborn as this...everyone is a winner! 

Also, BatGirl, if you have so many health problems, maybe your Burmese Cobalt Blue isn't the best pet, since, you know, they're deadly.

</sarcasm>


----------



## BatGirl (Jan 30, 2010)

*perhaps death is just nothing to fear...*



xhexdx said:


> Also, BatGirl, if you have so many health problems, maybe your Burmese Cobalt Blue isn't the best pet, *since, you know, they're deadly*.


So's my .357, but I keep it just the same... 

And even with the possible risks... see:
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=170564


----------



## xhexdx (Jan 30, 2010)

Yes, yes,  I read it.  You're my hero.


----------



## Venom (Jan 30, 2010)

BatGirl,

You do realize that MrDeranged is the site founder and head admin, right? I would recommend avoiding making any snide/ condescending remarks his direction.

As for the danger of an Old World tarantula bite, I have read preeetty much *all *the literature on the subject. I've "done" this debate more times than I can count, and could write the book on this subject. Like my screen-name indicates, I am the member who is, probably more than anyone else here, all about issues of venom, venomous species, and invertebrate envenomations. It's my special interest of research and discussion on this forum. I know what I'm talking about.

As far as documented medical history shows, no human has ever died of a Theraphosid envenomation. There was an anecdotal report of a man from Indonesia dying from a tarantula bite to his foot. The cause of death was actually infection from the bite being on his FOOT, in a country where sanitation is not concern #1. Death was by gangrene, and the venom had nothing to do with it. He could have gotten the same infection by stepping on a nail, since all that killed him was an infected HOLE in his foot. In fact, the venom probably helped, as T venom is a mild antibacterial.

Another report, from China, dealing with what was then called Selenocosmia huwena ( Ornithoctonus sp. now I believe ), reported that an infant had succumbed to a bite on the buttocks. This was in rural China, so the report was never documented by medical personnel--it was simply a village rumor.

This is the tone of "death by tarantula" reports that we get: nobody can prove them, hospitals/ doctors were not involved, and the natives ( I wonder why it's always in rural, underdeveloped settings..hmmm) claim that a large spider killed their kid/ uncle, or what-have-you.

Here is the skinny: no tarantula bite is capable, on its own, of causing a human fatality. Ever. There MUST be a coinciding medical condition. I'm sure you must be aware of Poecilotheria, Selenocosmia, Stromatopelma, Heteroscodra, Selenotypus, Phlogius, Lampropelma, Ornithoctonus, Chilobrachys, Citharischius, Hysterocrates, and all the other larger/ more-toxic of the Old World tarantulas, right?? Well--NOT ONE of them has ever produced a life-threatening envenomation, as far as ALL medical records show, from ALL nations of the world, across ALL of recorded time!!!!!!

And that is even WITH many bite victims being in less-than-perfect health. Honestly, the chances of dying from a Theraphosid bite from any species, is astronomically low. 

And yet, there is a chance that, if you had, say, severe heart disease, that a Stromatopelma bite *might *put you over the edge into a life-and-death situation. MIGHT. Or, a bite from Poecilotheria, because of the severe swelling it causes, could PERHAPS cause a dangerous condition if you had uncontrolled diabetes, in which reduced blood-flow can lead to gangrene. Or perhaps you have muscular dystrophy, or cystic fibrosis, and your muscular/ respiratory system is compromised already to a severe extent...there is a small chance that a Poecilotheria/ Selenotypus bite could be dangerous to you. 

But....IT'S NEVER HAPPENED!!! It's all just speculation! I can conjecture all I like, and compare organ weaknesses of a human to the organ systems a venom targets and say, yep, looks like a match: Spider A would aggravate Condition X...but the outcome is totally speculative. You cannot say that any--ANY--tarantula is deadly, or even dangerous. All that can be said, is that they are "medically significant." Since you don't seem up on these terms, here's the breakdown:

"Deadly" --Causing threat to life is a normal/ frequent result when untreated

"Dangerous" -- Causing threat to life is unlikely, but occasionally possible.

"Medically significant" -- Causing threat to life is impossible without a strong, pre-existing condition that combines with the bite, to produce a hybrid syndrome of venom + disease.

A FEW tarantulas are "medically significant," which means that they are "dangerous" only to those who have very, very serious diseases already. That's all there is to it. Read the Bite Report section of this forum--no deaths in there!


----------



## BatGirl (Jan 30, 2010)

*Legend*



xhexdx said:


> Yes, yes,  I read it.  You're my hero.


just read about your bite from your cobalt - ouch and then some... wow - you really are a legend!


----------



## BatGirl (Jan 30, 2010)

*more ganging-up on the caped crusader...*



Venom said:


> You do realize that MrDeranged is the site founder and head admin, right? I would recommend avoiding making any snide/ condescending remarks his direction.


...so, the group mind is down to intimidation now? 



Venom said:


> As for the danger of an Old World tarantula bite, I have read preeetty much *all *the literature on the subject. I've "done" this debate more times than I can count, and could write the book on this subject.


Yeah, sure, ya bet ya... so, why haven't you written a book on this - problems getting published? It's not hard, just work at it and also remember you must also have good credentials 



Venom said:


> There was an anecdotal *(unpublished, but may be the truth)* report of a man from Indonesia *dying *from a tarantula bite to his foot...Another report, from China, dealing with what was then called Selenocosmia huwena ( Ornithoctonus sp. now I believe ), reported that an infant had *succumbed *to a bite on the buttocks.


...more deaths! Does it ever stop - the horror 



Venom said:


> Poecilotheria, Selenocosmia, Stromatopelma, Heteroscodra, Selenotypus, Phlogius, Lampropelma, Ornithoctonus, Chilobrachys, Citharischius, Hysterocrates, and all the other larger/ more-toxic of the Old World tarantulas, right?? Well--NOT ONE of them has ever produced a life-threatening envenomation, as far as *ALL medical records show, from ALL nations of the world, across ALL of recorded time*!!!!!!.


.. and in ALL the dimensions, and of ALL the levels of existence, and ALL... well, you know! :clap:



Venom said:


> there is a chance that, if you had, say, severe heart disease, that a Stromatopelma bite *might *put you over the edge into a life-and-death situation. MIGHT. Or, a bite from Poecilotheria, because of the severe swelling it causes, could PERHAPS cause a dangerous condition if you had uncontrolled diabetes, in which reduced blood-flow can lead to gangrene. Or perhaps you have muscular dystrophy, or cystic fibrosis, and your muscular/ respiratory system is compromised already to a severe extent...there is a small chance that a Poecilotheria/ Selenotypus bite could be dangerous to you. .


Uh, Oh, we're waivering now... let's not admit it could _ever _cause a death. We must deny! We must - we must - we must ...



Venom said:


> I can conjecture all I like.


Good for you! Isn't this a GREAT country?



Venom said:


> You cannot say that any--ANY--tarantula is deadly, or even dangerous.


Yeah, sure, ya bet ya... no wait! Watch this: 

BatGirl says *"Old world tarantulas can cause death in rare cases."*

There, I evidently _can _say that - especially if this is also said by others who have published literature on tarantulas. Of course they didn't have to get thrashed for it.

I sure miss SpiderTalk....


----------



## Mad Hatter (Jan 30, 2010)

BatGirl said:


> BatGirl says *"Old world tarantulas can cause death in rare cases."*


That kind of statement right there is not at all helpful to our hobby. In fact, those are the exact kinds of notions people not immersed in the hobby would be likely to spread.

And if you are going to continue to persistently perpetuate this insanely unfounded gem of knowledge, why don't you provide some of those sources/links that you claim are "so easy to find?"

Btw... you don't have to be right all the time to be a productive/accepted part of the AB community. I've been a member this long and every mistake you make just expands your knowledge. It's a good thing to be constantly learning new things. And it doesn't make you any less of a person to admit when you are wrong and then grow from there.


----------



## Mister Internet (Jan 31, 2010)

BatGirl said:


> I sure miss SpiderTalk....


You'd prefer a place where everyone considered your opinion valid just because it popped out of your head?  That doesn't work here... there's a reason THIS site is still around, and it's because people take potentially harmful information seriously, and take the (unwitting) damaging effects of distributing improper information to hobby newbies very seriously as well.  It's not personal... you're making it personal, but people are only trying to correct your improper grasp of *all available facts*, they aren't concerned with making you look bad *personally* just because you have some incorrect information.  You seem to have in in your head that your opinion deserves to be respected, facts be damned, and that's just not how real discussions work, sorry.

Venom made a very thoughtful post responding very methodically and coherently to all your points, and the ONLY response you had for him was to mock him about not getting published.  In debate circles, this is called a Red Herring logical fallacy.  You distract from the original points addressed by bringing up other points that have nothing to do with anything, and attack those to try to appear as if you've "won" some kind of point, when in reality, all you did was avoid the points he raised.  People who are confident in their grasp of all available facts on a matter generally don't feel the need to avoid points they should be equipped to discuss.

I would suggest that if you are going to continue to behave this way, that you may not be cut out for online discussion forums.  Your assertion was proven incorrect... or at least, was proven to be so astronomically unlikely as to make a statement of its possibility incorrect for all intents and purposes, which is the same thing. If you're going to continue arguing, and it appears you like arguing for no better reason than people disagree with you, then at least have the decency to rebut valid points with you own valid points, in a reasonable, civilized manner.  Otherwise, why should anyone else take you seriously?

Everyone else: it appears she enjoys being argumentative, and I would suggest not playing into it if you can't control yourselves.  You've been warned.


----------



## Satanika (Jan 31, 2010)

BatGirl said:


> ...so, the group mind is down to intimidation now?


No one is trying to intimidate anyone here. Please, you really need to get over yourself. Once again, persecution complex. 



BatGirl said:


> I sure miss SpiderTalk....


You DO have other options. Please, feel free to utilize them.


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## Satanika (Jan 31, 2010)

Mister Internet said:


> <snip>
> 
> Everyone else: it appears she enjoys being argumentative, and I would suggest not playing into it if you can't control yourselves.  You've been warned.


Crap, does your warning still count for me if I was mid reply and didn't read it until my response was already posted? LOL  ;P


----------



## BatGirl (Jan 31, 2010)

*goodby - the point is made, everything else is subterfuge*



Mister Internet said:


> suggest not playing into it


I try, but it is so easy to get drawn back into defending oneself from the over-compensation attacks... so crafty! 

I think it is the overwhelmingly multi-pronged attack [and it's not just an attack on the idea of a possibility of death from an OWT bite, it's an attack on everything! It even tracks the denial sendrome list completly!] that makes one forget what's really going on.. and the next thing you know - bam! More pile on...



Mister Internet said:


> ...there's a reason THIS site is still around (responding to those who miss the old SpiderTalk.NET), and it's because people take potentially harmful information seriously...


 Actually, SpiderTalk.NET kept getting hacked is why it is no longer around... not going to point fingers, but... well, we had the same problem with GAInspector.org, which is now locked and owned by the Russians!


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## Venom (Jan 31, 2010)

*May I make one point?*

As far as being published goes, I am in the credits of a History Channel tarantula documentary, published on national TV, October 2008. I worked as a liaison between the filmmakers and the hobby community, getting people here involved in the film, and securing specimens for filming. Also working on that doc' were Philth ( an experienced and very long-standing member here), and Rick C. West, the celebrity arachnologist. I may one day write a book, but for the moment I am busy working on a Master's Degree.

Have a nice day.


And MrI, thank you.


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## Nerri1029 (Jan 31, 2010)

BatGirl said:


> I try, but it is so easy to get drawn back into defending oneself from the *over-compensation attacks*... so crafty!
> 
> I think it is the overwhelmingly multi-pronged attack [and it's not just an attack on the idea of a possibility of death from an OWT bite, it's an attack on everything! It even tracks the denial sendrome list completly!] that makes one forget what's really going on.. and the next thing you know - bam! More pile on...



point that sharpened diagnostic tool at your self for just a minute.

<added for On topic >

I do not handle my T's as a rule.
I have handles plenty of mine but it is due the occasions that arise from transferring and other housekeeping.
MOST handling events have been due to packing for shipment.

I have learned to keep my cool back when I kept herps.
My only real serious case of nerves was when I had a 3" _S. calceatum_ on my forarm heading for higher ground.


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## Fran (Jan 31, 2010)

To answer the original question,I have handled my tarantulas  a very few number of times, in general, I never handle them.


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## Satanika (Jan 31, 2010)

BatGirl said:


> I try, but it is so easy to get drawn back into defending oneself from the over-compensation attacks... so crafty!
> 
> I think it is the overwhelmingly multi-pronged attack [and it's not just an attack on the idea of a possibility of death from an OWT bite, it's an attack on everything! It even tracks the denial sendrome list completly!] that makes one forget what's really going on.. and the next thing you know - bam! More pile on...


You sound like a broken record. 

Your paranoia has already been addressed:

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showpost.php?p=1579631&postcount=224

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showpost.php?p=1579760&postcount=229

It is blatantly clear that the only one with the "obsessive denial syndrome" is you and only you. :wall:

To *stay on topic*, as for my opinion on handling (as mentioned in another handling thread), I always like to respond with this: would you handle a goldfish? Assuming your answer is no, then it's pretty much the same thing IMHO. If you are wondering if there is any "official rule or law" or specified or designated or approved amount of time, there is not. It would boil down to your own personal preference (and the tarantula's, of course). Remember, the only one who gains anything at all from holding/handling a tarantula is you.


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## JimM (Jan 31, 2010)

BatGirl said:


> I try, but it is so easy to get drawn back into defending oneself from the over-compensation attacks... so crafty!
> 
> I think it is the overwhelmingly multi-pronged attack [and it's not just an attack on the idea of a possibility of death from an OWT bite, it's an attack on everything! It even tracks the denial sendrome list completly!] that makes one forget what's really going on.. and the next thing you know - bam! More pile on...


You're very obsessed with this "denial" word as if we're sitting here trying to claim that the earth flat. People are simply presenting what is known and documented...the end. You're the one in OCD mode.


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## spyderlady (Jan 31, 2010)

I never handle mine. It's not recommended. Plus, I have ephebopus uatuman. Which is a 'hands off!' species. Plus, I've got b.emilia and b.sabulosum which are probably too skittish for handling. Also, c. fasciatum is in my collection as well. If I were to handle my t's, I would do it with my two avicularia species, Guyana pinktoe and species amazonica.


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## mouldylemons (Feb 1, 2010)

I would handle mine occasionally or if needed but I have one bad tempered rosea who attacks even a stream of water when filling her water dish, and a tiny baby B. smithi who I am afraid of loosing 
oohwell. guess not every tarantula is suitable for show and tell:razz:


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## UrbanJungles (Feb 1, 2010)

Venom said:


> As far as being published goes, I am in the credits of a History Channel tarantula documentary, published on national TV, October 2008. I worked as a liaison between the filmmakers and the hobby community, getting people here involved in the film, and securing specimens for filming. Also working on that doc' were Philth ( an experienced and very long-standing member here), and Rick C. West, the celebrity arachnologist. I may one day write a book, but for the moment I am busy working on a Master's Degree.
> 
> Have a nice day.
> 
> ...


Hey! Don't forget me!
LoL


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## Venom (Feb 1, 2010)

UrbanJungles said:


> Hey! Don't forget me!
> LoL


Yeah, you were in it too!  I'm really bummed that History Channel doesn't have a DVD available for purchase of that episode. I really want to buy it! But yeah, that was a fun project ( and a thrill to be on TV !  )


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## Buckwheat (Feb 1, 2010)

Are you the same "Venom" that came to Arachnofreaks forum a few years back with the black widow thing??..


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## Wonnetz (Feb 1, 2010)

I always handle Ts. Though most of the time im kind of scared.


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## Venom (Feb 1, 2010)

Buckwheat said:


> Are you the same "Venom" that came to Arachnofreaks forum a few years back with the black widow thing??..


No, I don't think I've been to that site.


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## scottyk (Feb 2, 2010)

Wow! I've been away for a few months due to some family issues, but am glad to see that AB is still as informative (and entertaining) as ever 

I've grown out of the desire to handle my tarantulas. It's probably less than coincidental that my collection has also moved towards faster and more defensive OW species. I pretty much just enjoy observing them at this point...


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## Rick McJimsey (Feb 2, 2010)




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## Zoltan (Feb 2, 2010)

Jesus, Rick, you're killing me!!!


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## redrumpslump (Feb 2, 2010)

Hahahahah Rick that's funny as hell. Personally I only handle my slings when I first get them. I have a mf a.metallica who I occasinally handle. She's a sweetheart and is tong fed. Other than that I use my hands to work and I can't afford not to work for a couple days.


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## xhexdx (Feb 2, 2010)

Rick, that was priceless!  I almost fell out of my chair!


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## PrimalTaunt (Feb 2, 2010)

Best. Picture. Ever. (On AB.)


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## Shell (Feb 2, 2010)

Agreed  

That just made my day!


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## DooM_ShrooM (Feb 5, 2010)

i handle my rosies but i have never handled my cobalt blue...but hope i could......one day... ....when i do maintenance i just stick my hand inside.....its okay coz my rosies dont bite and my cobalt blue is in its hide(day time)


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## Julia (Feb 5, 2010)

DooM_ShrooM said:


> i handle my rosies but i have never handled my cobalt blue...but hope i could......one day... ....when i do maintenance i just stick my hand inside.....its okay coz my rosies dont bite and my cobalt blue is in its hide(day time)


You might still want to be careful sticking your hand into an enclosure where the tarantula is completely hidden from view.  They can be up and out of those burrows in a FLASH!  Get yourself some tongs, my friend.


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## DooM_ShrooM (Feb 6, 2010)

Julia said:


> You might still want to be careful sticking your hand into an enclosure where the tarantula is completely hidden from view.  They can be up and out of those burrows in a FLASH!  Get yourself some tongs, my friend.


thanks...i'll add that on my list when i go shopping


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