# Cheap Beginner centipede??Pedes king of arachnids?



## Ultum4Spiderz (Sep 13, 2013)

I would like a good looking beginner Pede, here soon within 3 months. 
I also was wondering if they are the strongest predators of all arachnids is this true? There Venom is very potent & speed is Very fast. I am a Noob to Pedes! Giant 8-13" inch Pedes generally are stronger than Tarantulas & Scorps I heard.
 so I am just asking.. :bruised:


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## cantthinkofone (Sep 13, 2013)

a couple of ground rules...
1. NEVER CALL THEM AN ARACHNID INFRONT OF ME!
2. there is not and will never be a beginner pede. they are dangerous. would you risk the lives of your immediate family and friends?
3. read. spoon feeding people knowledge leads to problems.
those are the ground rules. getting a pede means risking your other animals as well. please think long and hard about this. if your decision is still yes i want one, then think harder and longer. if you refuse and must have one start with a slow non subspinipes. preferably one that doesnt move or bite. S. polymorpha tend to be good. there venom isnt just potent. it may not kill you, but youll be begging someone TO kill you.


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## Greenjewls (Sep 14, 2013)

S. polymorpha venom is that bad?  I heard it was mild.  Maybe those reports are from dry bites... I saw a video of a kid letting a S. heros eat his hand, I know for sure that one didn't envenom him or he would have had a different sort of reaction...  I wonder if 'pedes are the kings of inverts?  No one is willing to stage a battle between a T. blondi and a S. gigantea for fear of losing one or both expensive animals, plus it would be mean and sad.  P. imperator would be a competitor also.  Keep in mind that venom potency is different vs other invertebrates than it is for mammals, at times it is even inversely proportionate.  Most venom cocktails are designed to effect either inverts OR mammals. Sorry for rambling but these are some serious questions that I've given a lot of thought... The beauty of it is the mystery because no one knows what is the "king" of (terrestrial) invertebrates, and many people are posing "rock/paper/scissors" theories into the mix which may be valid as well.


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## lancej (Sep 14, 2013)

Scolopendra viridis is another one to consider.  They are smaller, less potent, and easy to keep (for a pede).  They act like bigger pedes, but their smaller size makes them much more controllable.  Do your research on its needs and make sure you have an appropriate container - screw on lid, enough height between the top of the substrate and the top of the container.  Like everyone else said, they are not arachnids.  They are Myriapods.


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## cantthinkofone (Sep 14, 2013)

no polymorpha venom is mild but its not something a man can forget. let alone any pede. i guess it just lights my fuse when people just come along expecting centipedes to be no biggie. when i go to shows here, i always see idiots buying pedes and it gets to my core. one of them bought a centipede as their first invert. of course when i buy pedes people stare at me like im a mad man. a teen age child with a centipede? most people call me nuts. its just my hobby. i personally would never suggest it to anyone my age let alone someone with no experience. hell i have 3 people in the room when i do a transfer and i have pain killers and epipens on hand as well. i practice safety religiously. I know most people probably wouldnt. these are not puppys. I care deeply about the safety of all and so I dont call these pets. these are zoological specimens. see doesnt sound too friendly now does it. king of inverts? no. scorpions kill centipedes almost the drop of a hat.


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## Greenjewls (Sep 14, 2013)

cantthinkofone said:


> king of inverts? no. scorpions kill centipedes almost the drop of a hat.


I agree that at equal weight a 1oz scorpion will destroy a 1oz centipede... BUT will the biggest possible P. imperator beat the biggest possible S. gigantea?  Pretend it is a super heavyweight bout with no upper limit besides what is possible for the species to achieve in nature. What do you think?  Thanks for entertaining my fantasy!

---------- Post added 09-14-2013 at 06:02 PM ----------




cantthinkofone said:


> king of inverts? no. scorpions kill centipedes almost the drop of a hat.


I agree that at equal weight a 1oz scorpion will destroy a 1oz centipede... BUT will the biggest possible P. imperator beat the biggest possible S. gigantea?  Pretend it is a super heavyweight bout with no upper limit besides what is possible for the species to achieve in nature. What do you think?  Thanks for entertaining my fantasy!


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## lancej (Sep 14, 2013)

Responsibility, common sense, and maturity (mental, not physical) can be found in people of all ages.  And, conversely, it can be very lacking in people of all ages as well, so I feel your pain.  If everyone starting out with a pede started with one of the smaller species, they would get a taste of what kind of potential nightmare they can have on their hands if they aren't on their toes at all times when dealing with them.


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## cantthinkofone (Sep 14, 2013)

these are nightmares. i still love mine though...


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## Kazaam (Sep 15, 2013)

Pretty much all pedes are capable of outrunning you in a race, there aren't any 'real' beginner species.


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## Quixtar (Sep 15, 2013)

Ultum4Spiderz said:


> I would like a good looking beginner Pede, here soon within 3 months.
> I also was wondering if they are the strongest predators of all arachnids is this true? There Venom is very potent & speed is Very fast. I am a Noob to Pedes! Giant 8-13" inch Pedes generally are stronger than Tarantulas & Scorps I heard.
> so I am just asking.. :bruised:


Scolopendra polymorpha is probably the easiest, least dangerous, and cheapest centipede for you to take care of. After that, you can probably try out S. subspinipes or S. heros for a more impressive centipede. Their venom, while potent, will likely not kill you. It will simply be very painful. They're not particularly hard to keep compared to tarantulas and scorpions, but in my experience are a little less tolerant of bad/unsanitary conditions. I've had many pedes simply drop dead for reasons unknown to me whereas they were completely healthy the day before. This is likely due to the humidity requirements of species like S. subspinipes and S. hardwickei along with the fact that centipedes have a series of spiracles along their bodies that could provide easy entry for mold spores and all sorts of nasty parasites.

Compared to tarantulas and scorpions, centipedes are much more active predators rather than a passive or ambush predators. If hungry, they will search for prey, and in doing so, are more likely to find escape routes. Make sure your containers are secure and that there aren't any holes that they could potentially squeeze through or try to chew through.

As far as whether they're stronger than tarantulas and scorpions...

Due to being ambush predators, tarantulas do not fare well in open confrontations against centipedes. They can easily take a centipede that has found its way next to their burrows, but if placed side by side with both individuals hungry, the centipede is more likely to come out on top. This is mostly due to the flexibility of the centipede and its resilience compared to arachnids with respect to anatomy. A tarantula or scorpion that has had its body cavity punctured in any way is likely to die easily, while a centipede is more likely to survive the injury. I've seen various Scolopendrids come out on top against even large Theraphosa species that clearly had the mass advantage. On the flipside, I've also seen smaller Haplopelma species defeat Scolopendrids. However, more often than not, centipedes prevail against tarantulas in random encounters.

Scorpions have better defenses compared to tarantulas in random encounters despite being mostly ambush predators as well. They have the advantage of being able to hold centipedes at bay while administering venom through their stingers. With Buthids and less robust scorpion families, most Scolopendrids of equal mass are capable of overpowering them. However, with Scorpionids, due to the toughness of their exoskeletons and heavy chela, they are difficult for even large Scolopendrids. As such, I do not believe even a large Scolopendra subspinipes can prey on an adult Heterometrus species for example, but perhaps a centipede with a clear mass advantage such as a very large Scolopendra gigantea may be able to.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Spepper (Sep 15, 2013)

If you want a good beginner 'pede, get a millipede.  Harmless creatures if you don't rub their "juice" in your eyes or mouth.

---------- Post added 09-15-2013 at 04:41 PM ----------

But then again you didn't ask about millipedes, nor do you seem interested.  You only seem interested in predators.  So with that in mind, never mind about my post.


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## Gel (Sep 16, 2013)

Quixtar said:


> Their venom, while potent, will likely not kill you. It will simply be very painful.


I agree with the quote above.

Are they the king of inverts? That is subjective. I will never forget however when I learned that some giant centipedes will hang from cave ceilings and catch bats mid-flight. That's pretty apex predator if you ask me.

Reactions: Like 2


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## cantthinkofone (Sep 16, 2013)

I sware we have discussed this before but, centipede venom is not just painful. It's hell packed into a small payload. From wha I recall reading, morphine cant even stop the pain. You can't suggest a S subspinipes to a noob. Nor an S heros.


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## Quixtar (Sep 16, 2013)

cantthinkofone said:


> I sware we have discussed this before but, centipede venom is not just painful. It's hell packed into a small payload. From wha I recall reading, morphine cant even stop the pain. You can't suggest a S subspinipes to a noob. Nor an S heros.


My first arachnohobby-related "pet" was S. subspinipes. My first T was H. lividum. Their quickness and defensiveness quickly desensitized me, and I never got bitten.

If you are mature and do your research, there is no reason why you can't get these species as beginners.


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## Ultum4Spiderz (Sep 17, 2013)

cantthinkofone said:


> a couple of ground rules...
> 1. NEVER CALL THEM AN ARACHNID INFRONT OF ME!
> 2. there is not and will never be a beginner pede. they are dangerous. would you risk the lives of your immediate family and friends?
> 3. read. spoon feeding people knowledge leads to problems.
> those are the ground rules. getting a pede means risking your other animals as well. please think long and hard about this. if your decision is still yes i want one, then think harder and longer. if you refuse and must have one start with a slow non subspinipes. preferably one that doesnt move or bite. S. polymorpha tend to be good. there venom isnt just potent. it may not kill you, but youll be begging someone TO kill you.


I only want a smaller Species large Centipedes are simply too dangerous for me since I have never owned one.
I would agree with you are they meaner than  OBT???can Centipedes climb glass/plastic?
Yeah I understand they have venom almost as strong as scorps, are any pedes deadly??I would imagine there are some species.


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## Kazaam (Sep 18, 2013)

Ultum4Spiderz said:


> I only want a smaller Species large Centipedes are simply too dangerous for me since I have never owned one.


Catch yourself a Lithobius forficatus then.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gel (Sep 18, 2013)

Ultum4Spiderz said:


> Yeah I understand they have venom almost as strong as scorps, are any pedes deadly??I would imagine there are some species.


No, they are not considered deadly in conjunction with the reports and research we currently have. Please refer to my thread on the subject which can be found below. 

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?251806-Scolopendra-Venom

The most authoritative response I have found on the subject is from Dr. Rowland who is an expert on myriapods. 

His response can be found here http://bugguide.net/node/view/565413


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## Aviara (Sep 18, 2013)

I'm going to be blunt here - if you believed that centipedes were arachnids, and do not know whether they can climb glass, how fast they move, or how potent their venom can be, why are you considering acquiring one? You need to do much more research before setting out to purchase your first 'pede. Centipedes are not long skinny arachnids, they are not even in the same taxonomic class, and you cannot assume that because you can care for an arachnid of any species that you can therefore safely and correctly keep a centipede.

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## biomedical (Sep 18, 2013)

I don't have a lot of experiences keeping venomous arthropods, but from what I know is that people here (as I did) usually begin with small  S. subspinipes mutilans (the Chinese red-headed) which are commonly available with an inexpensive prize, beautiful colors and relatively "acceptable temperament".
I'm not an experienced collector but, as observed from all the tarantulas, scorpions and centipedes that I've kept, centipedes are relatively active and aggressive hunters with fast speed and high flexibility as compared to the other two. They have high resilience and coordination that use their whole body to "stabilize" the prey. I strongly agree that the container should be made sure with no sizable holes for them to escape. Their venom isn't very deadly to a man (except the case of allergy) but can induce sharp pain and swelling, sometimes even serious complications (especially toward children and the elderly).


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## zonbonzovi (Sep 18, 2013)

Searched "beginner centipede", just for you.  Merry Christmas, 3 months early.

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/search.php?searchid=1145435

Reactions: Like 1


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## windscorpions1 (Sep 19, 2013)

Catch yourself a house centipede I wash them down the kitchen sink all the time XD


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## Quixtar (Sep 19, 2013)

zonbonzovi said:


> Searched "beginner centipede", just for you.  Merry Christmas, 3 months early.
> 
> http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/search.php?searchid=1145435


"Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms."

Nice job.


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## freedumbdclxvi (Sep 19, 2013)

Beginner centipede brings up a number of posts.   Strangely,  it brings up another post from 2012 by the OP asking the same question.


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## Mister Internet (Sep 19, 2013)

Hello, I haven't posted in ages, and likely will not again after this, but it seems that some things need correcting that haven't been corrected in the interim during my absence.

First of all, centipedes are not "Deadly".  There are, as best I can recall, only two verified reports of deaths RELATED to centipede bites in all known scientific literature, and those were due to secondary infection/fasciitis, not the venom itself.  The venom will not kill a human.  Period.  There's never even been a documented anaphylactic event that I've ever heard of.  Some species' venomous bites may be more painful than others, but it's more a matter of the size of the specimen than the species itself... smaller species=less venom.

Secondly, you're making it sound like a person considering a centipede is approaching a task paramount to keeping a live Saltwater Crocodile in their swimming pool.  For crap's sake, it's a bug.  A sizeable one possibly, but a bug nonetheless.  Perpetuating this silly hype about how "aggressive", "deadly", or "dangerous" they are only makes matters worse.  This is the kind of sensationalistic nonsense that makes meat head types WANT to buy them when they shouldn't.  Truth be told, if you're keeping a centipede CORRECTLY, you'll likely never see it except on the occasional lucky nighttime visit to your bug cages... they are basically the Boa Constrictors of the arthropod world: big, impressive, and potentially dangerous of handled incorrectly, but mostly they just lay sheltered and wait for food.

And to the person that said they have 3 people, Epi-Pens, and pain killers on hand for a CAGE TRANSFER??  Sorry, YOU'RE the one who shouldn't be owning centipedes if you're that terrified of them, lol.  They are not radioactive, they can't jump 4 feet off their terminal legs, they can't spit venom in your eyes... they are easily contained in a smooth-walled container, and easily transferred with a small snake hook.  I can appreciate wanting to be CAREFUL, but holy crap... I would NEVER keep something in my house with my kids that I truly thought deserved all THAT caution.

To the OP, please search for "beginner centipede"... you'll find a lot of reading material.  Generally, I'd say start small and work your way up, but I bought a 8" S.heros and an 8" S.subspinipes for my first pedes, so I'm not one to talk.  Sometimes the smaller ones are actually "out" more and more interesting to watch... my subspinipes got almost 10" long before she died, and I NEVER saw her... I kept her on deep substrate and she stayed burrowed 24/7.  I actually think S.heros make GREAT first pedes... they are rather easy to come by here in the USA, and they don't grow terribly fast, so you have some time to "grow into them".  Plus, they eat well and are visible more often than some of the tropical species.  I actually caught these in the wild near Waurika, Kansas, and they were able to found in many cases by flipping large rocks...

So... take it down a notch, fellas.  They are not the terrifying spawn of Satan your admonitions are making them out to be.  They are fast, clever, and require CAREFUL HANDLING... but really, what bugs are we keeping that don't?  Besides millipedes and roaches, maybe lol.  If you keep them in a secure container, don't act like an idiot with them, and do your cage maintenance with forceps, there is ZERO chance of a bite.  And if you do get bitten, there is ZERO chance of you dying.

Search the username "Cacoseraph", he let dozens, if not hundreds, of his centipedes bite him over a period of months/years... little guys all the way up to rather sizeable specimens... he lived.

Reactions: Like 11


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## Galapoheros (Sep 20, 2013)

Imo a beginner pede means "a cheap" one.  The points being to see how responsible you are in keeping it in the container, to see if you stay interested, to see if you can keep it alive and to see if you can keep yourself from getting bit by it.  You don't want to waste a lot of money on one if it doesn't work out for any of those reasons.  There is one I've recently had experience with that seems different than most, ...young Sc. galapagoensis, they are unusually fast and unpredictable.  Centipedes aren't as fast as they appear to be, just like snakes really don't crawl as fast as it looks like they do.  Even when they are trying to really move fast, it only looks like they are moving much faster than they really are.  A fast walk is about how fast the fastest coachwhip snakes go.  I know that doesn't sound true but I've played around with that kind of thing a lot in an open field, it's their fast break in random directions that make them seem fast too.  But in a straight line, they really aren't that fast.  There is a Youtube setup where they are looking for a centipede on a show and then show the guy "running" after the centipede, this is a big lie, it's only for entertainment.  Somebody moved the centipede, the guy acted like it took off and ran over to where they put it, what a joke.  These kind of lies cause all kinds of mis-info.  The young galapagoensis though, if they bolt out while you're doing something, if you don't have a way to grab them, before you know it they are behind something you may have a hard time moving, they almost seem to disappear if you take your eyes off them.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gel (Sep 20, 2013)

Mister Internet said:


> Hello, I haven't posted in ages, and likely will not again after this, but it seems that some things need correcting that haven't been corrected in the interim during my absence.
> 
> First of all, centipedes are not "Deadly".  There are, as best I can recall, only two verified reports of deaths RELATED to centipede bites in all known scientific literature, and those were due to secondary infection/fasciitis, not the venom itself.  The venom will not kill a human.  Period.  There's never even been a documented anaphylactic event that I've ever heard of.  Some species' venomous bites may be more painful than others, but it's more a matter of the size of the specimen than the species itself... smaller species=less venom.
> 
> ...


Thank you Mister Internet. I couldn't have said it better myself. 

Yes they require extra caution, yes their bites are not a walk in the park, yes people in their native habitats don't want them running loose in their houses (but who would anyways haha? well, I'd be stoked to find one and I'm sure some others here would too lol), yes they are more apt at escaping then other inverts, yes it's not something you would buy 5 year old Timmy for his birthday. BUT they are not the monsters people make them out to be. I have gathered all of this in my relatively short time in centipede keeping/husbandry.

That was the goal of my thread "Scolopendra Venom". Yes, their venom is not something to underestimate but they are NOT deadly. We can't jump on every new person who posts here and make them leave screaming and running in the other direction with "doomsday" warnings. This is a publicly accessed forum and we can't afford visitors leaving misinformed. We need to back our information with facts from credible sources. Anything else is doing a disservice to centipedes and to an already misunderstood hobby.

Anyways, I'm ranting and rehashing what was already eloquently and rationally said by Mr. Internet's post, so I'll leave it at that for now.


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## Quixtar (Sep 20, 2013)

I agree with all of the above. Their venom and temperament are really exaggerated here. It's not like they're black mambas.


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## zonbonzovi (Sep 20, 2013)

Quixtar said:


> "Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms."
> 
> Nice job.


Oops.  There, all fixed.  Now the OP doesn't have to do the work for himself, as usual.    

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/search.php?searchid=1147354

<Edit: It appears that these re-posted links aren't working.  That's OK.  At least the search function still is >

To no one in particular and maybe I'm just being grumpy today: it's funny how no one has anything to say around here when the question is a complex one but when it is one that is simplistic or of a personal nature everyone comes out of the woodwork.  

Get a polymorpha.  Don't put it in your pants or your mouth.  It'll hurt and then you will have learned a valuable lesson.  Then, put it in an escape free container(use your imagination) with substrate, water and don't forget to feed it.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Kazaam (Sep 21, 2013)

Oh zonbonzovi, can I put you in the escape-proof container of my heart?

Reactions: Like 1


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## cantthinkofone (Sep 21, 2013)

im not afraid of them just extra cautious. if safety no longer is important then i guess i will just go snuggle with my pedes. fear is not the problem. the problem is simply the fact that i refuse to be bit. i do things correctly and as safe as i can. im sorry if that was post worthy. i guess nextime i will just use my hands and refuse medicine in the case of a bite.


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## freedumbdclxvi (Sep 21, 2013)

cantthinkofone said:


> im not afraid of them just extra cautious. if safety no longer is important then i guess i will just go snuggle with my pedes. fear is not the problem. the problem is simply the fact that i refuse to be bit. i do things correctly and as safe as i can. im sorry if that was post worthy. i guess nextime i will just use my hands and refuse medicine in the case of a bite.


that's not what he said.  safety is paramount, but what you posted is overkill.  I am conscious of safety, but I don't even go that far with my Phoneutria.  I am not "unsafe" because of it, and I am just as leery of taking a bite.  However,  care and common sense are your best weapons.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Greenjewls (Sep 21, 2013)

my Phoneutria would be in a paperweight

Reactions: Like 1


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## biomedical (Sep 22, 2013)

Quixtar said:


> I agree with all of the above. Their venom and temperament are really exaggerated here. It's not like they're black mambas.


 So far, the most aggressive venomous arthropods that I've kept is the Vietnamese giant centipede which easily shoots around even when little vibration is detected. I'm not an experienced collector but, as observed from what I've kept (including Baboon and Earth Tiger tarantulas), centipedes, general speaking, are like the black mamba/king cobra/lancehead/saw-scaled viper of the venomous snake world with respect to temperament, although their danger isn't as exaggerated as what have been said.


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## Quixtar (Sep 22, 2013)

biomedical said:


> So far, the most aggressive venomous arthropods that I've kept is the Vietnamese giant centipede which easily shoots around even when little vibration is detected. I'm not an experienced collector but, as observed from what I've kept (including Baboon and Earth Tiger tarantulas), centipedes, general speaking, are like the black mamba/king cobra/lancehead/saw-scaled viper of the venomous snake world with respect to temperament, although their danger isn't as exaggerated as what have been said.


Temperament wise sure, but venom wise, not quite. I'd say a better example would be _Phoneutria sp._, which have the speed, temperament, and venom to make them the "black mambas" of the arthropod world. In fact, I would consider most fast and highly venomous spiders to be the "elapids", while I would consider most highly venomous scorpions to be the "viperids" for their more robust builds compared to spiders (elapids).

Centipedes, in my opinion, are more like constrictors. Their bites are painful, but you wouldn't die from them directly. You could still succumb to secondary infections. They have the power to subdue most prey and the grasping action of their legs reminds me of constriction.


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## AzJohn (Sep 22, 2013)

Anyone comparing even the most dangerous invert to even the least dangerous venomous snake is making a huge exaggeration just by making the comparison. That's like me saying my Red Rider is the UZI of the BB gun world.


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## Quixtar (Sep 22, 2013)

No one is arguing that they're as dangerous as venomous snakes, but your statement isn't true for _all_ venomous snakes. The most venomous true spiders and scorpions are still more lethal than the least venomous colubrids. Commonly kept species such as _Boiga dendrophila_ and _Hydrodynastes gigas_ do not have any documented deaths. Though there are highly venomous colubrids like the boomslang, I suppose most people think of vipers and elapids when they think of venomous snakes. For that, your statement is true. The copperhead is an example of a viper with relatively weak venom, but has still produced a good number of fatalities, which is comparable to the fatalities produced by deadly true spiders and scorpions. Often times, higher numbers in the case of the latter are a result of them coming in frequent contact with humans. However, the mortality rate of an untreated black mamba bite is nearly 100%. There is no known venomous arthropod with a mortality rate that high. Even bites from species like _Atrax robustus_ and _Phoneutria nigriventer_ have an untreated rate of something like 5% or lower.

It's not so much a matter of toxicity as it is about quantity when comparing venomous arthropods with venomous snakes. Snakes are bigger, have larger venom glands, and therefore inject a hell of a lot more venom into their bites.

Now if you're just comparing inverts, please realize that this includes more than just arthropods. The box jellyfish (_Chironex fleckeri_) is more venomous than any snake. Many mollusks such as cone snails and the blue-ringed octopus are very much comparable.


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## AzJohn (Sep 22, 2013)

Quixtar said:


> No one is arguing that they're as dangerous as venomous snakes, but your statement isn't true for _all_ venomous snakes. The most venomous true spiders and scorpions are still more lethal than the least venomous colubrids. Commonly kept species such as _Boiga dendrophila_ and _Hydrodynastes gigas_ do not have any documented deaths. Though there are highly venomous colubrids like the boomslang, I suppose most people think of vipers and elapids when they think of venomous snakes. For that, your statement is true. The copperhead is an example of a viper with relatively weak venom, but has still produced a good number of fatalities, which is comparable to the fatalities produced by deadly true spiders and scorpions. Often times, higher numbers in the case of the latter are a result of them coming in frequent contact with humans. However, the mortality rate of an untreated black mamba bite is nearly 100%. There is no known venomous arthropod with a mortality rate that high. Even bites from species like _Atrax robustus_ and _Phoneutria nigriventer_ have an untreated rate of something like 5% or lower.
> 
> It's not so much a matter of toxicity as it is about quantity when comparing venomous arthropods with venomous snakes. Snakes are bigger, have larger venom glands, and therefore inject a hell of a lot more venom into their bites.
> 
> Now if you're just comparing inverts, please realize that this includes more than just arthropods. The box jellyfish (_Chironex fleckeri_) is more venomous than any snake. Many mollusks such as cone snails and the blue-ringed octopus are very much comparable.


LOL, I guess people comparing inverts to a mangrove snake, while more realistic, doesn't have the same pizazz as comparing them to a mamba.


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## pperrotta03 (Sep 22, 2013)

AzJohn said:


> Anyone comparing even the most dangerous invert to even the least dangerous venomous snake is making a huge exaggeration just by making the comparison. That's like me saying my Red Rider is the UZI of the BB gun world.


But the red rider IS the uzi of the bb gun world.

tappy tappa taparoo


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## vespers (Sep 22, 2013)

pperrotta03 said:


> But the red rider IS the uzi of the bb gun world.


_"You'll shoot your eye out, kid."_


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## biomedical (Sep 23, 2013)

Quixtar said:


> Temperament wise sure, but venom wise, not quite. I'd say a better example would be _Phoneutria sp._, which have the speed, temperament, and venom to make them the "black mambas" of the arthropod world. In fact, I would consider most fast and highly venomous spiders to be the "elapids", while I would consider most highly venomous scorpions to be the "viperids" for their more robust builds compared to spiders (elapids).
> 
> Centipedes, in my opinion, are more like constrictors. Their bites are painful, but you wouldn't die from them directly. You could still succumb to secondary infections. They have the power to subdue most prey and the grasping action of their legs reminds me of constriction.


Yes, centipede venom isn't really deadly to a man but I said that with respect to their temperament and speed as observed. Just from what I've seen, centipedes are relatively active/aggressive when hunting or defending, and are more difficult to handle (no one wants sharp pain and severe swelling resulting from a bite even though they're unlikely to kill you!). I admit every creature has unique characteristics and my analogy is never perfect. In my opinion, scorpions, generally, aren't as aggressive as the other two (centipedes and some spiders).


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## biomedical (Sep 23, 2013)

Quixtar said:


> No one is arguing that they're as dangerous as venomous snakes, but your statement isn't true for _all_ venomous snakes. The most venomous true spiders and scorpions are still more lethal than the least venomous colubrids. Commonly kept species such as _Boiga dendrophila_ and _Hydrodynastes gigas_ do not have any documented deaths. Though there are highly venomous colubrids like the boomslang, I suppose most people think of vipers and elapids when they think of venomous snakes. For that, your statement is true. The copperhead is an example of a viper with relatively weak venom, but has still produced a good number of fatalities, which is comparable to the fatalities produced by deadly true spiders and scorpions. Often times, higher numbers in the case of the latter are a result of them coming in frequent contact with humans. However, the mortality rate of an untreated black mamba bite is nearly 100%. There is no known venomous arthropod with a mortality rate that high. Even bites from species like _Atrax robustus_ and _Phoneutria nigriventer_ have an untreated rate of something like 5% or lower.
> 
> It's not so much a matter of toxicity as it is about quantity when comparing venomous arthropods with venomous snakes. Snakes are bigger, have larger venom glands, and therefore inject a hell of a lot more venom into their bites.
> 
> Now if you're just comparing inverts, please realize that this includes more than just arthropods. The box jellyfish (_Chironex fleckeri_) is more venomous than any snake. Many mollusks such as cone snails and the blue-ringed octopus are very much comparable.


Agree. The earth tiger tarantula here, for example, is said to possess, drop by drop, more toxic venom than the Chinese cobra (_Naja atra_) while the latter one is still considered much more dangerous due to its larger size with more quantities of venom delivered and higher striking range. This is a complicated matter with a myriad of factors needed to be considered instead of just toxicity. While some venomous snakes (like the black mamba, king cobra, coastal taipan, eastern brown) are regarded highly dangerous, due to their large size, venom delivery and temperament, during an one-on-one encounter, they don't come across humans as close as the Big Four snakes. Moreover, I think the lancehead, especially _B.asper_, is a very dangerous species which is very nervous and sensitive with bad temperament, fast striking speed and large size. Although the venom isn't very lethal, it induces bleeding, swelling, tissue necrosis and severe complications.


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## freedumbdclxvi (Sep 23, 2013)

We're all agreed - venomous snakes do not make good beginner centipedes.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Greenjewls (Sep 23, 2013)

King cobra = king of arachnids!

Reactions: Like 1


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