# Treatment for DKS



## boina (Apr 18, 2018)

DKS - dyskinetic syndrome - is a catch all term used to describe jerky, uncoordinated and often hyperkinetic movement in spiders. A cause has not been determined yet, but poisoning through pesticides can lead to these symptoms as well as a bacterial infection. More often than not the affected spider will die.

Recently I had the unfortunate chance to study this 'DKS' since several of my spiders showed symptoms. I searched the internet for treatment options and found heat treatment mentioned several times on a German forum, so I thought I'd give it a shot. Here is my experience with it. I thought I'd treat it like a scientific study.

A. Affected spiders:

1. Two H. caffreriana slings, very badly affected. One died before I could start treatment, so there was one left for the study.
2. Lampropelma nigerrimun, AF, badly affected
3. Tapinauchenius sp. Colombia juvenile, badly affected
4. E. sp. red, AF, badly affected
5. T. cyaneolum juvenile, mild to moderately affected
6. G. pulchra, juvenile female, mildly affected

7. C. cyaneopubescens (GBB), AF, moderately affected, not treated but kept as a control "group".

Legend:
badly affected = dys- and hyperkinetic, no coordinated movement possible
moderately affected = dyskinetic, mildly hyperkinetic, movement still shows a discernible direction
mildly affected = dyskinetic, jerky, but directed movement

*Heat treatment setup:*

The spiders were left in their enclosures. The enclosures where placed under a red heat lamp. Temperatures under the heat lamp ranged from 30 to 35°C / 85 to 95F. The heat lamp was switched off for 10 hours during night time.

All spiders except the H. caffreriana sling had a water bowl and those were kept perpetually full. Other than that the moisture level in the enclosures was kept as it was. The sling got a drop of water on it's web every two days.

Results:

The E. sp. red showed no improvement but instead deteriorated fast and died after about a week.
T. cyaneolum showed neither improvement nor worsening of the symptoms. After 3 weeks heat treatment was terminated for this spider since it obviously didn't help.
All other affected spiders showed obvious improvement:
The G. pulchra with only mild symptoms to begin with was considered cured after three weeks and heat treatment was terminated. She doesn't eat yet but she's rather fat so I think she's just full. Her movement is normal.
L. nigerrimum and the Tapi move nearly normal after 3 weeks of treatment, even though their symptoms were severe in the beginning. L. nigerrimum has even started to remodel her burrow. Both are eagerly accepting prekilled food. They still get heat treatment ever other day to sustain their good condition and to speed up a molt.
H. caffreriana is still showing symptoms but those decreased from very bad to moderate. It's still getting heat treatment and I hope it will molt soon.

The GBB without treatment showed no improvement and rather seems to be slowly deteriorating. (I know, I'm a nasty scientist but I wanted at least one control.)

Discussion:

All spiders from warm/hot climates (Lampropelma, Tapinauchenius, Harpactira) showed vast improvements under heat treatment.
Spiders from colder climates (E. sp. red, T. cyaneolum, G. pulchra) did not profit in the same way from the treatment. Although the G. pulchra got better she didn't show severe symptoms to begin with. It cannot be excluded that heat treatment even aggravated the symptoms of the E. sp. red and, in hindsight, may have contributed to it's death.

Conclusion:

For spiders from warm/hot climates heat treatment can be recommended as a treatment for DKS symptoms.

Heat treatment cannot be recommended for spiders from colder climates although it may help somewhat in certain cases.


P.S.. The GBB will be started on heat treatment now.

Reactions: Like 10 | Thanks 1 | Informative 23 | Helpful 3 | Love 3 | Award 9


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## Chris LXXIX (Apr 18, 2018)

Thanks for sharing this, Cora

Reactions: Like 1


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## PidderPeets (Apr 18, 2018)

While it's still saddening that you lost the few you did (I'm sorry for the losses you did have), it's absolutely fantastic news that others have shown that much improvement! It's also amazing that you took the time to properly experiment and document the process. Hopefully the effort you put forth and shared can help save countless tarantula lives. 

I only wonder if there's any possible treatment for the species that live in colder climates. Perhaps warmer temperatures than usual, but not reaching the ranges used for the warmer climate species?

Thank you so much for taking such a scientific approach to an otherwise stressful and upsetting event! Please keep us updated on the progress of all the treated Ts! I'm sure we'd all love to hear that they make full recoveries for you.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Venom1080 (Apr 18, 2018)

We need more stuff like this in the hobby.. good work.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 3


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## Sinned (Apr 18, 2018)

Indeed, thanks for sharing

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mjb30 (Apr 18, 2018)

Thank you for conducting this work and for posting your observations! Here, have a turtle

Reactions: Funny 2


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## spookyvibes (Apr 18, 2018)

Thank you so much for sharing, I'm glad that you've been able to find a way to help/cure some of them! Hopefully you'll be able to find a way to help the cooler climate species.

Reactions: Like 1


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## boina (May 13, 2018)

Just a short update:

The GBB has died, becoming the third casualty of this disease. I don't know if I waited too long before starting treatment or if it was doomed from the start. Everyone else is doing alright.

Reactions: Sad 6 | Optimistic 1


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## NukaMedia Exotics (May 13, 2018)

Hmm interesting thread. I don't know much about DKS but this seems to be a start into rehabilitating Ts with this issue.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Garth Vader (May 13, 2018)

This is such helpful information.  @boina - forgive me if this is common knowledge or explained elsewhere.  Why do you suppose that tarantulas from warmer climates show improvement from the heat treatments?  I'm guessing it is like spider hot yoga where they sweat out their toxins.  Okay, that is a total joke. 

In all seriousness, I'd love to know your thoughts on why the heat helps the spiders and also, why this seems to help species from hot climates but not others.

Reactions: Like 1


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## spookyvibes (May 13, 2018)

boina said:


> Just a short update:
> 
> The GBB has died, becoming the third casualty of this disease. I don't know if I waited too long before starting treatment or if it was doomed from the start. Everyone else is doing alright.


I’m so sorry that your GBB passed I’m glad everyone else is doing fine though!

Reactions: Like 1


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## boina (May 14, 2018)

Garth Vader said:


> This is such helpful information.  @boina - forgive me if this is common knowledge or explained elsewhere.  Why do you suppose that tarantulas from warmer climates show improvement from the heat treatments?  I'm guessing it is like spider hot yoga where they sweat out their toxins.  Okay, that is a total joke.
> 
> In all seriousness, I'd love to know your thoughts on why the heat helps the spiders and also, why this seems to help species from hot climates but not others.


Nothing is common knowledge about those dyskinetic movements. I don't really know why it works so I can only hypothesize. Since the increased temperature increases a spiders metabolic rates I think it really may help the spider metabolize/expel any toxins faster if there are toxins involved in the first place.
Increased metabolism does put a strain on a spiders body, though, and if they aren't equipped to deal with it that well they may not benefit from it, really.
When it comes to bacteria the increased heat actually may make life for bacteria more difficult while it supports the spiders immune system. That's how it works when mammals get a fever. Since a spider can't get a fever the increased temps may provide similar support. As I said, this is wild speculation. If anyone has a better idea or thinks this is complete nonsense I'm all ears.

Reactions: Like 4 | Informative 1


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## Theneil (Jun 4, 2018)

@boina Do you have any ideas as to what could have caused this 'outbreak'?  

This heat treatment makes me think of some things videos i've seen regarding some marine animals venom.  The treatment is basically to submerge the area of affliction in hot water and the heat actually breaks down the chemicals (not the body of the afflicted).  At least that is my interpretation of what i have seen on tv.

I am no biologist but in my mind it seems like if a toxin was hurting an organism, speeding up the processing of said toxin wouldn't reduce the amount of total damage, but only reduce the time it takes to finish doing the damage.  However my knowledge of biology, chemistry, and even tarantulas has a LOT of room for improvement so i could be way off.


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## Greasylake (Jun 4, 2018)

Theneil said:


> @boina Do you have any ideas as to what could have caused this 'outbreak'?
> 
> This heat treatment makes me think of some things videos i've seen regarding some marine animals venom.  The treatment is basically to submerge the area of affliction in hot water and the heat actually breaks down the chemicals (not the body of the afflicted).  At least that is my interpretation of what i have seen on tv.
> 
> I am no biologist but in my mind it seems like if a toxin was hurting an organism, speeding up the processing of said toxin wouldn't reduce the amount of total damage, but only reduce the time it takes to finish doing the damage.  However my knowledge of biology, chemistry, and even tarantulas has a LOT of room for improvement so i could be way off.


I have a feeling that submerging the area in hot water wouldn't "break down" the chemicals, but would denature the proteins in the venom, rendering it infective. However, if that was the case then making the bitten area really really cold would have the same effect. The denatured proteins could then be processed normally and would cause no harm to the body. I'm not 100% on this, my knowledge comes from high school biology and anything my grandma taught me lol, but that's really the only thing I can think of.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Theneil (Jun 4, 2018)

Like i said my knowlege on the subject leaves much to be desired. my source of information is youtube and maybe netflix, then factor in the fact i am trying to remember something i didn't fully understand from a source that probably dumbed it down to the point of inaccuracy (so that someone like me could understand it, LOL) on top of the fact the lifeforms referenced have no direct relation to ANYTHING.  i would be more surprised if i am onto something than if i am completely and utterly wrong.  That's  why i tagged the biologist, so she can set me straight.


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## boina (Jun 5, 2018)

Theneil said:


> speeding up the processing of said toxin wouldn't reduce the amount of total damage,


That doesn't really make sense. The toxin does damage as long as it's there. With insecticides it seems the toxin attaches to certain neuro-receptors and keeps them permanently activated or blocked. As long as the toxin is there the receptors will misfire, causing the weird movement. Once the toxin is broken down the receptors are free to react normal again. 

As @Greasylake said, denaturing of proteins could play a role, too, especially in the fish treatment. I don't know if the temperature with the tarantulas was high enough for that, though. The temperature you aim for in the lab when you want to denature proteins, like, to stop an enzymatic reaction, is usually 42°C at least and that's higher than I had in the spider treatment. 

It may not have been toxins, it could as well have been bacteria or even viruses. In that case, all bacteria have an optimal living temp. Bacteria that live in humans have an optimal temp of 37°C and viruses are especially temperature sensitive. That's one reason why you get a fever and why infected areas get hot, it weakens the bacteria and especially the viruses around. Now, I'd think bacteria or viruses living in invertebrates will have a lower optimal temp and may be hampered by high temps, too.

But that's all speculation. I can't prove most of this and it may be wrong, these are only possible mechanisms that seem to make sense to me.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Theneil (Jun 5, 2018)

Ah.  So the body doesn't have to try processing or breaking them down to be affected.  Makes more sense now.

One more quick question fo you @boina or @Greasylake  i did a quick search on debaturing proteins and was wondering if i have the basic understanding right.  To me it sounded like the denaturing didn't change the chemical process at all, only the physical shape (kinda like boiling a noodle) so that it doesn't fit in the puzzle anymore.  Is that an accurate (though probably dumbed down) understanding?

Sorry for all the questions, i like generally like the sciences, but we either didn't go over this in my highschool bio classes or i wasn't paying attention...


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## Greasylake (Jun 5, 2018)

Theneil said:


> One more quick question fo you @boina or @Greasylake i did a quick search on debaturing proteins and was wondering if i have the basic understanding right. To me it sounded like the denaturing didn't change the chemical process at all, only the physical shape (kinda like boiling a noodle) so that it doesn't fit in the puzzle anymore. Is that an accurate (though probably dumbed down) understanding?


Yep that's about right. The protein can also be renatured by getting it back into the right shape as well, although some are much more difficult to renature than others.


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## JBarbaresi (Jun 5, 2018)

I don't know anything about DKS, but I've kept tropical fish aquariums for several years and this reminds me of some experiences I've had that may help explain what you've observed.  There is a very common parasite called ich that can quickly infect an entire tank if untreated.  The most common treatment is through chemicals and medications added to the water, but after studying the life-cycle of the parasite I have experienced a 100% success rate in treating it through increased temperatures alone.  The only time the parasite can be killed is during the tomite (similar to larvae) stage when it is free floating in the water and looking for a host to attach to.  Once it finds a host it attaches and forms a protective cyst-like barrier until it falls off and then splits into hundreds of more tomites that are released back into the water.  The total life cycle lasts about 10-12 days. Although the parasite cannot be killed once it attaches to a host, at temperatures above 89 degree the tomites cannot survive.  If the water temperatures are sustained above 89 degrees for 10-12 days (an entire life-cycle) the tomites are effectively killed off once they release into the water and cannot infect a host or reproduce further.

If the heat treatment seems to work for DKS, perhaps the condition is caused by a parasite or bacteria that is also incapable of reproducing above a certain temperature?  That would mean as long as the spider is still healthy enough to get past the life cycle of the current infection of parasite/bacteria (maybe that's around 3 weeks given the result of your experiment), it may be able to fully recover once the parasite/bacteria is killed off and its no longer infected.  It's possible that your losses were specimens that were just too weak or too far along to be able to survive the duration of the life cycle of whatever causes the disease.

Just a thought I had in reading through this thread, may not be applicable at all.

Reactions: Helpful 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Theneil (Jun 5, 2018)

@Greasylake Thank you for the enlightenment.


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## Campi95 (Jun 5, 2018)

This is amazing information, OP. Thank you for your rigorous approach. 

I think it’s hard to determine why heat helped, particularly since nobody really knows what causes DKS. Here’s my two cents on it from my knowledge of infectious processes. 

(Note: this doesn’t really apply if the DKS was due to a toxin exposure. If it was toxins (i.e, pesticides) then treatment besides basic supportive ICU care won’t work, and the ones that pass away will be the ones that are weaker/more contaminated)

Spiders cannot quite regulate their body temperature and thus, cannot have fevers. As people above have explained, fevers disrupt a lot of the processes required for bacteria, viruses and fungi to survive and infect. It is quite possible that if this instance of DKS was caused by a bacterial or viral pathogen, the heat lamp induced an artificial fever that gave the spider’s own immune system enough of an edge. That, combined with the fact that most bacteria and pathogens grow excellent at room temp but sharply decline in viability just a couple degrees above body temperature makes this a likely scenario. 

But that begs the question, why did some react better than others? I believe the hint is your observation that the hot climate species fared better. These species are adapted to higher temps, and thus were allowed to keep themselves alive longer. Fever will kill either the pathogen or the host, often being very close to killing both. There’s a chance that the “fever” was what killed those specimens prior to it killing what was ailing them. As many misinformed owners can attest to, I’m sure that if you were to have kept the “fever” on after the others had recovered, they too would have died. 


In short. I’m so so sorry for your loss. But I feel you have done the hobby a great benefit from your observations.

Reactions: Love 1


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## MintyWood826 (Jun 17, 2018)

I wonder if it could be a parasite that causes dks. I've heard about parasites that infect a host and turn them into "zombies" and maybe that's what the spazzy movements are from. @boina

It's great that you've found a way to cure at least some t's suffering from this it's awful to watch!


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## aenigmatica8 (Jul 7, 2018)

boina said:


> DKS - dyskinetic syndrome - is a catch all term used to describe jerky, uncoordinated and often hyperkinetic movement in spiders. A cause has not been determined yet, but poisoning through pesticides can lead to these symptoms as well as a bacterial infection. More often than not the affected spider will die.
> 
> Recently I had the unfortunate chance to study this 'DKS' since several of my spiders showed symptoms. I searched the internet for treatment options and found heat treatment mentioned several times on a German forum, so I thought I'd give it a shot. Here is my experience with it. I thought I'd treat it like a scientific study.
> 
> ...



Thank you SO much for doing this study! I have a sling with DKS and would do anything to cure it, but there’s zero research out there! Very frustrating. It’s an E. campestratus so hopefully it will benefit from the heat. I would like to do this in a controlled fashion. The problem is that at night I use the air conditioner so it might reverse the benefits of the heat during the day.

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## Ultum4Spiderz (Jul 7, 2018)

boina said:


> Just a short update:
> 
> The GBB has died, becoming the third casualty of this disease. I don't know if I waited too long before starting treatment or if it was doomed from the start. Everyone else is doing alright.


Rip hope you learn a cure.
I’ve lost 10 or more Ts to dks , had no deaths in a few years. 
Was very sad when P Metallica  sub adult got dks , i can’t afford a another.


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## boina (Oct 7, 2018)

Maybe it is a good idea to put a final update under this 6 months later. The affected spiders were:

1. Two H. caffreriana slings, very badly affected. One died before I could start treatment, so there was one left for the study.
2. Lampropelma nigerrimun, AF, badly affected
3. Tapinauchenius sp. Colombia juvenile, badly affected
4. E. sp. red, AF, badly affected
5. T. cyaneolum juvenile, mild to moderately affected
6. G. pulchra, juvenile female, mildly affected

7. C. cyaneopubescens (GBB), AF, moderately affected, not treated but kept as a control "group".

To go from bottom up:

7. The GBB didn't make it. It was first kept untreated, then treated later, but maybe that was too late. It never got any better and died after several weeks.

6. The mildly affected G. pulchra was declared healed directly after the heat treatment and that was that.

5. The T. cyaneolum juvenile still displays weird movements. At this point I'm waiting for it to finally molt... slow growing species can really be a pain sometimes.

4. As described before, the E./H. sp. red died soon after the treatment.

3. The. T. sp. Columbia improved significantly with the heat treatment but continued to show jerky movements. I fed her prekilled, which she accepted, until she went into premolt. She finally molted a couple of months ago and has been perfectly fine ever since, of course killing her roaches herself since the molt.

2. The L. nigerrimum showed the biggest improvement with the heat treatment. She continued to show somewhat weird movement for a few weeks but kept improving and tackled a live, adult Dubia a couple of months later without even molting beforehand. Basically, she healed without needing a molt to do so.

1. The H. caffreriana sling was definitely affected the worst. Luckily it showed enough improvement from the heat treatment to be able to eat prekilled. Still, every bump on the enclosure would set off another bout of uncontrollable twitching. The 'prekilled' prey had to be absolutely dead and unmoving for it to eat - but it did eat. It finally managed to molt in this state! That improved things somewhat, but there were still very obvious symptoms. Still, it accepted food more eagerly now. A few weeks ago it molted for the second time and and I decided to rehouse since the old vial had really become too small. I hadn't rehoused before for fear of stressing it and it not being up to exploring something new. But the rehouse went well enough and after a few weeks it finally (finally!!) started to web, like a good little Harpactira. Movement seemed pretty normal, too, so yesterday I decided to try a live roach - and it took it down like a champ! So, I'm finally signing off on a clean bill of health for this one, too.
(And I'm really hoping for it being female since the one unaffected sibling I still have looks suspiciously like a male... That sibling is significantly bigger by now - nearly twice as big - it molted one time more and gained more size with each molt. The illness may have affected the growth of the affected sling.)

Anyway, it looks as if tarantulas with faster metabolism deal better with whatever this was, maybe because their metabolism is better in clearing out toxins/infections. A molt seems to be helpful in healing, but not always necessary.

Now, if that T. cyaneolum would finally decide to molt, too...

Reactions: Like 4 | Informative 7 | Helpful 1 | Love 1 | Award 2


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## Gogyeng (Jul 16, 2019)

Amazing thread. Thanks for the good read !


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## Arachnophoric (Dec 6, 2019)

I think I'm going to attempt this treatment with my C. albostriatus. Fingers crossed that I'm not starting too late - noticed symptoms starting Monday night.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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