# New Setup



## JoseMCeee (Oct 25, 2006)

What should I add to this tank (besides a water dish)? The t barely got big enough to be in it. It doesnt seem to be stressed at all from the move and its been eating like 2 crickets per day.


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## Gigas (Oct 25, 2006)

2 cricks a day seems alot for any T, What species is it?


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## RottweilExpress (Oct 25, 2006)

Yeah, genus is pretty crucial for more accurate advice. But you could always some plants (plastic or real) for your own eyes and more terrain to wander or hide in.


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## JoseMCeee (Oct 25, 2006)

RottweilExpress said:


> Yeah, genus is pretty crucial for more accurate advice. But you could always some plants (plastic or real) for your own eyes and more terrain to wander or hide in.


Its a A. Genic or Giant White Knee at 3 inches. I gess I'll just get some plants then.


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## Windchaser (Oct 25, 2006)

First and foremost you should add quite a bit more substrate. For terrestrial tarantula it is best to limit the distance from the top of the substrate to the top of the enclosure to be roughly equal to its leg span. This minimizes the risk of injury due to a fall.

Beyond that, there really isn't anything that you need[/i] to add for the health of your tarantula. Plants, real or fake, are more for your enjoyment than the health and well being of the tarantula.


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## Alice (Oct 25, 2006)

if you want decoration, you can also try cork bark or those wood they put in aquariums - both can be very nice if you choose the right pieces. plus, my ts 'enjoy' climbing the stuff from time to time. make sure that the substrate is high enough, though. for a genic, you can also add some moss. still none of these things is really necessary - but they make the tank something to look at .


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## Windchaser (Oct 25, 2006)

Gigus said:


> 2 cricks a day seems alot for any T, What species is it?



I would have to agree. Two crickets a day is an excessive amount of food. A diet of six to eight crickets a month would be a sufficient diet. For more information on the topic you can do a search for power feeding here on AB.


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## Sarah.S (Oct 25, 2006)

As its a juvinile genic 2 crickets a day is not that excessive these seem to thrive and need extra food.  Though once it gets to adult size I would cut it down to one a fortnight.


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## Gigas (Oct 25, 2006)

Sarah, with some fast growing Individuals Like genics/Hysterocrates sp. I feed them a single prey item a day.
Alot of people say this "power feeding" is harmful to the T and shortens its lifespan (which it does) but 2 a day is too much for a T to metabolise so it normally just ends up getting pooped out.


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## Windchaser (Oct 25, 2006)

Sarah.S said:


> As its a juvinile genic 2 crickets a day is not that excessive these seem to thrive and need extra food.  Though once it gets to adult size I would cut it down to one a fortnight.


So you are going to go from gorging it to starving it. One cricket every fortnight is feeding it two crickets a month. And no matter how you look at it, feeding it two crickets a day is extreme power feeding. That is the equivalent of sixty crickets a month. That is eight to ten times the normal diet.


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## Sarah.S (Oct 25, 2006)

Trust me ( personal experiance speaking ) for genics its not to much at all they manage fine to metabolise two prey items as day as junviniles.  Yes which is why I said to go to a normal feeding routine when it reaches aduldthood.  I have a theory that we cant say exactly what power feeding is as I think it depends on the species of T we are dealing with.  All I can say for sure is that I would not consider 2 approrite prey items power feeding for a genic but would never feed as much for something like a rosea as it would be to much.


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## Sarah.S (Oct 25, 2006)

Two crickets a month is hardly staving a T, in the wild they would often eat alot less often. For a genic juvinile 2 right sized prey a day would not be to much as they would willingly take much more a day and still feed.  Power feeding really cant be based on prey numbers but on the species of T your keeping and on that species appitite.


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## Windchaser (Oct 25, 2006)

Without turning this thread into a major debate on power feeding (there are already numerous threads on the subject) I simply wanted to say that because something will accept all the food it is given does not mean that it is healthy. We humans eat are capable of eating way more than we need and we have a host of health issues that go along with over eating. I have yet to see a single study that has indicated that over eating is beneficial for any animal. I have however seen numerous articles that show calorie restricted diets are beneficial. These studies have included both invertebrates and mammals.


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## Midnightrdr456 (Oct 25, 2006)

for most of my spiders i feed then 2-3 appropriate sized items per week (so say its a big eating species I do 3 a week, less hungry species 2 week).  thats 8-12 a month all my Ts have lived happy lives and never look to thin or too large.

I do feed more right after a molt though.


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## Gigas (Oct 25, 2006)

Sarah.S said:


> Trust me ( personal experiance speaking ) for genics its not to much at all they manage fine to metabolise two prey items as day as junviniles.


Do you run their faeces through chemical tests and see if they are taking in the majority of the protein and other components of the criks they are eating?


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## Sarah.S (Oct 25, 2006)

Their genral health and growth shows they are doing ok with this.  Has it been done and proved they cant take more than one a day? if so where is the testing and the reports?  I have not seen them or heard them metioned before now.  Windchaser my point was that 2 a day for a genic is not all it would take therefore its not really power feeding them is it I have known genics to take four five or six plus crickets a day before now of course once the power feeding studies came out this stopped.  I would never power feed any of my own T's however I dont belive we can say a base line numeber of prey is a power feed for all types of T as they all have differnet needs etc.


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## tarangela2 (Oct 25, 2006)

Windchaser said:


> I simply wanted to say that because something will accept all the food it is given does not mean that it is healthy.


:clap: I agree wholeheartedly with Windchaser. I have had Ts that would eat as much as I would give them (before I knew better) and I have had Ts that would only eat every couple of months. Neither of these extremes is, IMHO, healthy for the T. 

I now have a Chilean Rose that eats three or four crix a month and is doing wonderful!


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## Gigas (Oct 25, 2006)

Sarah.S said:


> Their genral health and growth shows they are doing ok with this.  Has it been done and proved they cant take more than one a day? if so where is the testing and the reports?  I have not seen them or heard them metioned before now.  Windchaser my point was that 2 a day for a genic is not all it would take therefore its not really power feeding them is it I have known genics to take four five or six plus crickets a day before now of course once the power feeding studies came out this stopped.  I would never power feed any of my own T's however I dont belive we can say a base line numeber of prey is a power feed for all types of T as they all have differnet needs etc.


I'm not saying this is bad for the tarantula, but it is wasteful.
One cricket a day is probably just over the too much to metabolise mark, all this means is if you feed the 2 the second cricket has very little of its mass turned into useful products for the T, in esence its just crapping out the second crick which could be put to better use.

all depending on the size of crickets fed of course but i'm sure most don't feed 3rd instart cricks to say 4 inch L/s T's.


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## Sarah.S (Oct 25, 2006)

Well seing as ours are feed home grown food that is breed by us we dont really have an issue with food costs but I can see the point.  On the biological side of things how do you know that is whats going on with the second prey item? and that the second one is not being metabolised? I have not noticed poo in ours at all in many cases where they have been feed more than one item of an approrite size.  And am beggining to sucpect that different species and in some cases different T's metabolise at different levels and so what is power feeding for one might not be for others.  At no point have I ever said you should give a T all it will eat as that really would be power feeding.  All I am saying is that in my experiance with genics two items a day seems to be ok for their health and does not result in an over weight or ill T.  And that as genics have and will take more than two prey items a day specially when juvinile two a day is not really that extreame.


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## jimmysp4des (Oct 25, 2006)

somebody said to add more subsrtate, i agree with this, while your at it you could add a slope (small hill).  this adds some variety and cost nothing,


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## Gigas (Oct 25, 2006)

Sarah.S said:


> Well seing as ours are feed home grown food that is breed by us we dont really have an issue with food costs but I can see the point.  On the biological side of things how do you know that is whats going on with the second prey item? and that the second one is not being metabolised? I have not noticed poo in ours at all in many cases where they have been feed more than one item of an approrite size.  And am beggining to sucpect that different species and in some cases different T's metabolise at different levels and so what is power feeding for one might not be for others.  At no point have I ever said you should give a T all it will eat as that really would be power feeding.  All I am saying is that in my experiance with genics two items a day seems to be ok for their health and does not result in an over weight or ill T.  And that as genics have and will take more than two prey items a day specially when juvinile two a day is not really that extreame.



Not going to argue with that, Just trying to squeeze a point in.
And the metabolic rates between different T's must have variation somewhere especially for eg between genics and rosea's


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## Sarah.S (Oct 25, 2006)

Exactly I have also noticed slings from the same sac also seem to have different rates as well. This whole thing has got me really intrested and I am going to work out a formal scintific study for it maybe in a few years I can work out some info that could be useful for a better feeding guide so that T's dont get under or over fed.


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## Gigas (Oct 25, 2006)

I haven't heard from the same sac? but i guess it does make sense, there is slight genetic variation between slings from the same sac maybe it could affect metabolic rate.
And what about between sexes? Male do mature faster than females, even though its at a smaller size the males often moult before the females (atleast what i have noticed)


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## Windchaser (Oct 25, 2006)

Gigus said:


> I haven't heard from the same sac? but i guess it does make sense, there is slight genetic variation between slings from the same sac maybe it could affect metabolic rate.
> And what about between sexes? Male do mature faster than females, even though its at a smaller size the males often moult before the females (atleast what i have noticed)


I have a variety of slings from the same egg sacs (different species as well) and I have noticed differences in growth rates as well. Some of them are _G. rosea_ and they are still too small (even after two years) to sex. Others are _G. aureostriata_ and are just getting large enough to sex. The largest of the bunch has been confirmed to be a male. The others have not been sexed yet.


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## Sarah.S (Oct 25, 2006)

I have had seral of different species from the same sac that have shown different growth rates including two male GGB's.  sex is also something I guess I should look into in my study as well I just need to work out how to get good control groups and recold every thing properly etc I guess.


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