# Avicularia Species



## UrbanTarantulas (Aug 18, 2014)

Was wondering if anyone can identify this species.

It was purchased as a "while caught" Avic Metallica.... but I was under the impression that metallicas don't carry that pinkish abdomen... It kind of looks like an Urticans, but hairs aren't as long as my other urticans when comparing.

I have googled countless times, but I cannot seem to find a good website that compares most avics, notes the differences etc.  Any help with this genus would help me out a lot since I'm becoming more and more interested in this genus.  

Thanks in advance,

-jack


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## Gpappy31 (Aug 18, 2014)

it could help if you posted a picture.


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## UrbanTarantulas (Aug 18, 2014)

Here are additional photos...


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## pyro fiend (Aug 18, 2014)

i cant id im bad with T ids.. but give it a few hours and fuzzyavic will kick in  i dont think there is an avic he/she aint kept

only thing i CAN say is if thats his/her container.. id upgrade as soon as yesterday thats like a shipping container for an arboreal[well any T realy] that sized


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## Gpappy31 (Aug 18, 2014)

looks exactly like mine which is an avic. avic. And get her/him in a bigger enclosure.


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## Ashton (Aug 18, 2014)

I had an A. metallica that looked very similar to that.


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## JohnDapiaoen (Aug 18, 2014)

You're gonna get a mix of answers here buddy. The avicularia genus is in a bit of an unorganized mess. In addition to that many Avicularia look similar to some people, such common confusions are Avicularia avicularia and Avicularia metallica. I've seen people compare their Avics claiming "It looks exactly like mine" *shows a pic of completely different looking spider*. Then I get irritated at people neglecting to pay attention to the finer details of their spider. NOT just the pink toes.

 Yours has frosted hairs and a very metallic green sheen to it, so in my honest opinion it would be an Avicularia sp. "metallica green". Avicularia avicularia has noticeable red abdominal hairs and little to no frosting on the legs. But don't take my words for it as I could be just as confused as the rest. 

-JohnD.

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## viper69 (Aug 18, 2014)

It doesn't look my female A metallica. I'm not saying it isn't one. Mine doesn't have any shade of red on it, except its pink toes.


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## Poec54 (Aug 18, 2014)

I'm not an Avic expert, but it looks like metallica to me, which are still being brought in w/c.


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## fuzzyavics72 (Aug 18, 2014)

That's a very sexy avicularia metallica sp.green!!! I'm assuming she's a female. Only metallica have the "snow caped" hairs!!!!!  She's definitely not an avicularia sp. Kwitara. I'll post pictures of both


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## Formerphobe (Aug 18, 2014)

As previously stated, the Avicularia genus is currently a taxonomic disaster area.

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## UrbanTarantulas (Aug 18, 2014)

Thanks for the reply guys....   I appreciate the input.
To me, if I were to guess i' would have gone with an Urticans, when comparing the long pinkish hairs with my other Urticans... Its hard to tell in photos, but theres a lot of pink going on there....  Possibly a hybrid of some sort?

I did acquire a MM A. Metallica that I wanted to pair with, but they just didn't seem interested.  They weren't violent in any way towards one another, but definitely no tapping or show of interest... after several attempts.

The MM A. Metallica also has darker coloring compared to this particular T.  Oh Avicularia genus.... why so cruel.

Any of you guys care to post a few Urticans juveniles pictures?  Metallica pictures?  No good reference sites out there that anyone knows of?

thanks in advance,

-jack


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## viper69 (Aug 18, 2014)

fuzzyavics72 said:


> That's a very sexy avicularia metallica sp.green!!! I'm assuming she's a female. Only metallica have the "snow caped" hairs!!!!!  She's definitely not an avicularia sp. Kwitara. I'll post pictures of both


That's not true at all. A. huriana, aka Ecuadorian Wooly, has white tipped setae as well.

Here's a pic of my female A. metallica, she has always had these color/pattern. Poec is right, they are still bringing in WC metallicas. Mine is really brightly colored compared to many I have seen.

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## cold blood (Aug 18, 2014)

jackthejeweler said:


> Thanks for the reply guys....   I appreciate the input.
> To me, if I were to guess i' would have gone with an Urticans, when comparing the long pinkish hairs with my other Urticans... Its hard to tell in photos, but theres a lot of pink going on there....  Possibly a hybrid of some sort?
> 
> I did acquire a MM A. Metallica that I wanted to pair with, but they just didn't seem interested.  They weren't violent in any way towards one another, but definitely no tapping or show of interest... after several attempts.


For the love of God, if you don't know the species with 100% certainty, you should absolutely NOT be attempting to breed it.  There's no positive in creating hybrids.   I would avoid breeding this spider is I were you!!

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## viper69 (Aug 18, 2014)

cold blood said:


> For the love of God, if you don't know the species with 100% certainty, you should absolutely NOT be attempting to breed it.  There's no positive in creating hybrids.   I would avoid breeding this spider is I were you!!


I was going to say the same thing. Why is this guy even trying to create *HYBRID FRANKENSPIDERS* and then sell hybrids (suspect at best, likely at worst) and *CONTAMINATE* the hobby??????????????????????????????????????????? Gee, how nice of him, and completely irresponsible. Way to think about the hobby, and only think about yourself Jack.

After reading that, I wouldn't buy a thing from him or anyone else w/that mentality.

Reactions: Dislike 2


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## Poec54 (Aug 18, 2014)

I'd like to get some input from Chad and Chase on this.


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## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (Aug 18, 2014)

*Avicularia metallica*

Hey! Viper69 you state, "Avicularia Species It doesn't look my female A metallica. I'm not saying it isn't one. Mine doesn't have any shade of red on it, except its pink toes."

Now the original A. metallica in the hobby years ago had white toes and you stated yours Viper has "pink toes". With that stated the A. mettalica hobby form today is seen with pinkish white toes like you stated your has Viper. This in fact would not be the true A. metallica from years ago, but is the A. mettalica in the hobby today. In the thread page 2 Chad "Advan" was asked to contribute by Poec54 and here is a post he had in 2011 with the same information I have shared http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/sho...u-guys-think&p=1804297&viewfull=1#post1804297 His Avicularia metallica also looks very similar to Jacks.

Therefore, Jacks Avicularia metallica was sold as that, it looks like the hobby form now of A. metallica, and he can breed it as that is what it is. No need for accusation as he was always just asking for clarity I.M.O.

Now here is a link of a photo of my old Avicularia metallica http://exoskeletoninverts.com/wp-content/gallery/tarantulas/avicularia-metallica-f.jpg Hope this helps a bit to clarify this issue. Jack, what you have is a Avicularia metallica!



Jose


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## Hydrazine (Aug 18, 2014)

*sits here and patiently waits for Dr. Fukushima's Avicularia genus revision*

(which may actually kick one of the few reliably recognizable species out of the genus)

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## Storm76 (Aug 18, 2014)

Gpappy31 said:


> looks exactly like mine which is an avic. avic. And get her/him in a bigger enclosure.


 A. avicularia doesn't have white satae, but red and without white hair-tips usually . Not to mention that A. avicularia are usually fully grown around 4", while metallica can get up to around 6" to my knowledge. 


As for the OP:

In Germany we have "two versions" of "A. metallica" - the reason I put those words into " is simply that I don't want to be the judge of what's right, or wrong. Fact is, however, that (again - to my knowledge, correct if wrong) the A. metallica we have in mind when talking about this species is from Suriname. There is, however, another one from Guyana (which is home to other species) that looks slightly different. For one, not that blueish, but deep green. Still has the white satae, has pink feet however. 

Who knows? Maybe those forms got mixed up way back - I can't tell. Just saying what I see and read. It's the reason why certain breeders over here lable Avicularia spp. with their origin in addition - if known. It's more accurate than the species (except for very few exceptions that can't be mistaken).

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## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (Aug 18, 2014)

*Avicularia sp. mess!*



Hydrazine said:


> *sits here and patiently waits for Dr. Fukushima's Avicularia genus revision*
> 
> (which may actually kick one of the few reliably recognizable species out of the genus)


 Avicularia sp. mess!
You are 100% correct Hydrazine. I can't wait as well to see the revision, abstracts, photos, etc... by Dr. Bertani & or Dr. Fukushima. I have dabbled in threads on confusion in species such as Acanthascuria fracta, Brachypelma baumgarteni, Poecilotheria subfusca Lowland/Highland, but none are as confusing as Avicularia. 

Off the top of my head: Avicularia sp. boa vista, isla margarita, kwitara, tarapoto,Ecuador, Colombia, Peru purple, pakuri, pucallpa, amazonica manaus. Avicularia sp. metallica "Suriname" "Guyana", sooretama, gamba, lamarack, purpurea, urticans, diversipes, minatrix, bicegoi, ancylochira, aymara, versicolor, hurriana, hirschi, aurantiaca, ulrichae, amazonica, juruensis etc.............................


Are you kidding me....I would love to see some order to the chaos, but this 6 year wait for clarification of all is vexing.......

Some interesting reading, but I am sure it has been posted before:

http://novataxa.blogspot.com/2012/12/2009-avicularia-atlantic-forest-brazil.html

http://users.telenet.be/vogelspin/Avicularia/Caroline_Fukushima_english.pdf

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## viper69 (Aug 19, 2014)

jose said:


> Hey! Viper69 you state, "Avicularia Species It doesn't look my female A metallica. I'm not saying it isn't one. Mine doesn't have any shade of red on it, except its pink toes."
> 
> Now the original A. metallica in the hobby years ago had white toes and you stated yours Viper has "pink toes". With that stated the A. mettalica hobby form today is seen with pinkish white toes like you stated your has Viper. This in fact would not be the true A. metallica from years ago, but is the A. mettalica in the hobby today. In the thread page 2 Chad "Advan" was asked to contribute by Poec54 and here is a post he had in 2011 with the same information I have shared http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/sho...u-guys-think&p=1804297&viewfull=1#post1804297 His Avicularia metallica also looks very similar to Jacks.
> 
> ...


Jose what's up mi amigo!  Technically my female has white at the very tips and the majority is pink above it, the same shade as yours in that pic. I see what you mean about the difference in A metallica from years ago. I can tell you another thing, I had an A avic years ago (1990s), and it wasn't nearly as pretty as the ones I have seen in the past couple of years. Back then however that's what A avics I had seen were looking as, boring and drab. Now, A avic are quite pretty.


I wasn't accusing him of not knowing what spider he has. I wasn't accusing him of anything.

He has a tarantula that he seemed to not know the identity of based on his original post. He attempted to breed it. THAT is WRONG in my opinion. I didn't accuse him of anything, he told us what he did and what amount of knowledge he knows. If he wants to make Frankenspiders...so be it.

If that was my T, I wouldn't breed it.

Now with that said, is it possible that it's metallica SURE. I never said it wasn't metallica. I said his didn't look like mine, nothing more or less.

In the big picture what do we really know about Ts regarding phenotypic variation, not a lot at all. Not nearly as much as we know about some species of snakes for example.

Take the A sp Kwitara, it looks A LOT like a green metallica. Perhaps it's a different species, perhaps it's a locality difference, or perhaps it's a subspecies. No one knows.


Thanks for the links I appreciate it!

---------- Post added 08-19-2014 at 12:00 AM ----------




jose said:


> Avicularia sp. mess!
> You are 100% correct Hydrazine. I can't wait as well to see the revision, abstracts, photos, etc... by Dr. Bertani & or Dr. Fukushima. I have dabbled in threads on confusion in species such as Acanthascuria fracta, Brachypelma baumgarteni, Poecilotheria subfusca Lowland/Highland, but none are as confusing as Avicularia.
> 
> Off the top of my head: Avicularia sp. boa vista, isla margarita, kwitara, tarapoto,Ecuador, Colombia, Peru purple, pakuri, pucallpa, amazonica manaus. Avicularia sp. metallica "Suriname" "Guyana", sooretama, gamba, lamarack, purpurea, urticans, diversipes, minatrix, bicegoi, ancylochira, aymara, versicolor, hurriana, hirschi, aurantiaca, ulrichae, amazonica, juruensis etc.............................



Agreed, would like to know as well.  Actually sp Amazonica and sp Amazonica manaus are the same Avic. I asked someone about this over in Europe because the 2 I purchased were Manaus and I wanted to know if there was really a difference or not, as I believe there was. They are in fact the same T.


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## UrbanTarantulas (Aug 19, 2014)

viper69 said:


> I was going to say the same thing. Why is this guy even trying to create *HYBRID FRANKENSPIDERS* and then sell hybrids (suspect at best, likely at worst) and *CONTAMINATE* the hobby??????????????????????????????????????????? Gee, how nice of him, and completely irresponsible. Way to think about the hobby, and only think about yourself Jack.
> 
> After reading that, I wouldn't buy a thing from him or anyone else w/that mentality.



When I purchased the A. Metallica, it was from a reputable dealer who knows his stuff and has bred this species before.... I simply came to the boards to post a few pictures to help me understand and learn how to spot the differences in some of the species in this genus... I do appreciate peoples inputs.  Im here to learn about the hobby.  I have questions, and I post my questions.  Im not in any way trying to "contaminate" the hobby, your the one "contaminating" my thread with your childish like comments.  If you have input, great... I love to hear it, but if you have something personal against me, shoot me a PM or an email.

My breeding attempt was with the A. Metallica in the photos, and another MM A. Metallica purchased from the boards.  I don't understand how you can throw immature comments and attempt to undermine my reputation just because your quick on the trigger and need some attention.  For the love of the hobby, we should encourage people to ask questions, post pictures, get answers.... your type of response is negative and discourages people from participating in an online forum.


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## viper69 (Aug 19, 2014)

jackthejeweler said:


> When I purchased the A. Metallica, it was from a reputable dealer who knows his stuff and has bred this species before.... I simply came to the boards to post a few pictures to help me understand and learn how to spot the differences in some of the species in this genus... I do appreciate peoples inputs.  Im here to learn about the hobby.  I have questions, and I post my questions.  Im not in any way trying to "contaminate" the hobby, your the one "contaminating" my thread with your childish like comments.  If you have input, great... I love to hear it, but if you have something personal against me, shoot me a PM or an email.
> 
> My breeding attempt was with the A. Metallica in the photos, and another MM A. Metallica purchased from the boards.  I don't understand how you can throw immature comments and attempt to undermine my reputation just because your quick on the trigger and need some attention.  For the love of the hobby, we should encourage people to ask questions, post pictures, get answers.... your type of response is negative and discourages people from participating in an online forum.



You know what, I'm sorry man if what I wrote offended you, I'm only going by what I read from your own words. I'm sure there's other information you may have (not including that we can't visually see the T in person, we all know how different the same T can look in several pictures) that wasn't included in your first post, like mentioning it came from a "reputable dealer" as you just wrote.

The truth is, when I read your posts it really didn't seem like you were completely sure of what you have, particularly when I read this from you "To me, if I were to guess i' would have gone with an Urticans, when comparing the long pinkish hairs with my other Urticans... Its hard to tell in photos, but theres a lot of pink going on there.... Possibly a hybrid of some sort?"

You know reading a post is a lot like getting soundbytes at times, you get only a snapshot of a person's thoughts. So after reading your posts, and the above words from you in quotes, particularly "possibly a hybrid", it sounds like you don't know what you have at all, and you went to try and breed it.

Seriously, what you just wrote above in your last post sounds way more reasonable and confident than what you previously wrote, which is odd to me. What you previously wrote didn't come across as "I'm simply posting pics...to learn how to spot differences..."

What you previously wrote read a lot more like "I THINK it's A. metallica, but you know what, I'm not really sure, what do you guys think, maybe it's a hybrid?"

I wasn't the only one (eg Coldblood) that had the perception that you weren't sure what species of T you have. I'm not that crazy, only a little!

To help you a bit more I would contact KeithB if you want pics of urticans. He has some pics and vids which may help you.

Also, regarding your own T you posted in this thread: I realized in my pics that there was one phenoytypic feature that is missing from view in my own pics. On my female, she has the white setae on the abdomen, just like Advan's here http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/sho...u-guys-think&p=1804297&viewfull=1#post1804297 that Jose found.

My pictures really don't show that at all, just a few white setae on the right picture.

Lastly, I'm not quick to the trigger, I read every post before I posted to your inquiry. I always do. I don't care about attention at all, if I dropped dead right this moment, I could care less.

You may want to read the latest book on Avics, it's called:

*Welcome to Avics: The genus of guessing!!!!!!!* :biggrin::biggrin:

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## cold blood (Aug 19, 2014)

jackthejeweler said:


> When I purchased the A. Metallica, it was from a reputable dealer who knows his stuff and has bred this species before.... I simply came to the boards to post a few pictures to help me understand and learn how to spot the differences in some of the species in this genus.
> 
> My breeding attempt was with the A. Metallica in the photos, and another MM A. Metallica purchased from the boards.  I don't understand how you can throw immature comments and attempt to undermine my reputation just because your quick on the trigger and need some attention.





jackthejeweler said:


> Was wondering if anyone can identify this species.
> 
> It was purchased as a "while caught" Avic Metallica.... but I was under the impression that metallicas don't carry that pinkish abdomen... It kind of looks like an Urticans, but hairs aren't as long as my other urticans when comparing.


Jack, you're all over the place here.  In your initial post you specifically ask for help identifying the t, even going as far as openly suspecting it to be urticans.  You specifically asked if someone could help id THIS species.

Now today, you claim to be sure of the species because it was received from a reputable breeder and that you are trying to help understand differences....between these comments you talked of attempted breeding, seemingly, before you had your species confirmed....hmmmm...I certainly hope you can see where you set this forum up for confusion as your initial post and most recent don't exactly line up.

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## timisimaginary (Aug 19, 2014)

i thought he said he bought it from a reputable dealer who said it was A. metallica, and believing it to be A. metallica attempted to breed it. i thought it wasn't until after the failed breeding attempt that he began to suspect it might not be A. metallica after all, and came here to post pics/ask questions.


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## viper69 (Aug 19, 2014)

timisimaginary said:


> i thought he said he bought it from a reputable dealer who said it was A. metallica, and believing it to be A. metallica attempted to breed it. i thought it wasn't until after the failed breeding attempt that he began to suspect it might not be A. metallica after all, and came here to post pics/ask questions.


Well I don't think so based on the sequence of posts and the information provided in each post. What you suggest in the second half of your statement regarding failed attempts/suspect is not written by him in any way at all, it's only speculation on our part.

His original post's first words are "Was wondering if anyone can identify this species." That doesn't read like someone who knows what species he has to me, and that is no one's fault. Avics are really hard as we all know.

Later he mentions trying to breed it in another post.

Today in a different post- well my sentiments are echoed by Coldblood

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## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (Aug 20, 2014)

viper69 said:


> You know what, I'm sorry man if what I wrote offended you, I'm only going by what I read from your own words. I'm sure there's other information you may have (not including that we can't visually see the T in person, we all know how different the same T can look in several pictures) that wasn't included in your first post, like mentioning it came from a "reputable dealer" as you just wrote.
> 
> The truth is, when I read your posts it really didn't seem like you were completely sure of what you have, particularly when I read this from you "To me, if I were to guess i' would have gone with an Urticans, when comparing the long pinkish hairs with my other Urticans... Its hard to tell in photos, but theres a lot of pink going on there.... Possibly a hybrid of some sort?"
> 
> ...


 Hey man! How you been? Well guys and gals in Jack's defense I think even though he bought his spider from a reputable dealer he probably had a little bit of doubts of his spider and that's probably why he asked his question. I know for one I have bought from reputable dealers in the past and ended up getting the wrong species or the wrong gender. This has happen to me more than once. It doesn't hurt to ask for a second opinion.
At the same time we can't jump the conclusion ourselves and get offended by remarks that needs to be clearly clarify, this goes as well as Jack doing the same by jumping on someone else remarks. I know Jack means well as I know viper69 also means well. 
We need to take a step back and continue the topic about the two different Avicularia metallica "Suriname" and "Guyana".!
Peace my fellow tarantula lovers....



Jose

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## Storm76 (Aug 20, 2014)

cold blood said:


> Jack, you're all over the place here.  In your initial post you specifically ask for help identifying the t, even going as far as openly suspecting it to be urticans.  You specifically asked if someone could help id THIS species.
> 
> Now today, you claim to be sure of the species because it was received from a reputable breeder and that you are trying to help understand differences....between these comments you talked of attempted breeding, seemingly, before you had your species confirmed....hmmmm...I certainly hope you can see where you set this forum up for confusion as your initial post and most recent don't exactly line up.


This! I'm confused, too. On that note I can only implore you not to breed that tarantula, since (going back to your first, initial question on her) "you'd like someone to ID this species for you". Therefore, please don't create hybrids. Example: I have a beautiful, 6" A. azuraklaasi that I bought as such from a very reputable, trustworthy dealer over here. However, I'm aware that he got this one from someone else as a sling and over the time I've raised it, it does resemble A. braunshauseni way more. It is that particular problem, that let's me just keep her, without any intention to ever breed her. A pity, but being unsure doesn't mean I have to be irresponsible and contaminate the hobby. The genus, as mentioned a number of times, is already messed up big-time as it is. No need to add to that.

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## ccamaleon3000 (Aug 24, 2014)

Well that Avicularia looks exactly like my new imports I just have they are Avicularia metallica sp green. Urticans are not like the one on the pics or what dealers selling now Urticans (sp. Peru purple) fuzzy actually its right. The Avicularia genius its not a mess people mislabeled for 2 reasons they dont know what they are or make a new name for better sell. Now back to the one you just got I bet all my money that the seller that you know it have those tarantulas from my same imports as me. In 2002 were rare to see sp green metallicas. And for any body its telling me thats impossible to see the difference in one from other one in a picture have to be crazy or own few tarantulas and call his self an expert. I been keeping Avicularias since 97 and im still learning but I can see the difference from one and an other one. Not to make a sell but if you looking for a male let me know we got some of those

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## viper69 (Aug 25, 2014)

ccamaleon3000 said:


> Well that Avicularia looks exactly like my new imports I just have they are Avicularia metallica sp green.



Question for ya, can you post your metallica sp green pics ? I'd be curious to see how they compare to A. sp. Kwitara River. Which as far as I  can tell, looks just like a green version of A. metallica.

I also heard there's someone in Michigan who has bred sp Kwitara recently, I'm wondering if that's you?


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## advan (Aug 25, 2014)

ccamaleon3000 said:


> The Avicularia genius its not a mess


Quote of the year?

Now, can you tell me exactly what _Avicularia avicularia_ and _Avicularia metallica_ are?


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## ccamaleon3000 (Aug 25, 2014)

Avic avic are smaller blue in color when avic. Metallica are large white hairs on leg really easy to see the difference when adults. Avics avics. Molt mature from 4 inches + when avics metallicas molt from 5 1/2 to 6 1/2. And on the sarcastic way all are pink toes lol. Advan I thought you were the google expert. Jk. Look when you wanna you most of welcome to come to michigan to see my collection and you will see avicularias you never gonna see in the hobby. ( all import legal for scientific purpose.) And yes im one of the person's to breed sp. kitara way to different from avic. Metallica sp green the one you have in the pics.

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## ratluvr76 (Aug 25, 2014)

ccamaleon3000 said:


> Avic avic are smaller blue in color when avic. Metallica are large white hairs on leg really easy to see the difference when adults. Avics avics. Molt mature from 4 inches + when avics metallicas molt from 5 1/2 to 6 1/2. And on the sarcastic way all are pink toes lol. Advan I thought you were the google expert. Jk. Look when you wanna you most of welcome to come to michigan to see my collection and you will see avicularias you never gonna see in the hobby. ( all import legal for scientific purpose.) And yes im one of the person's to breed sp. kitara way to different from avic. Metallica sp green the one you have in the pics.


huh???????

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## Biollantefan54 (Aug 25, 2014)

I understood.....nothing.

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## Oumriel (Aug 25, 2014)

ccamaleon3000 said:


> Avic avic are smaller blue in color when avic. Metallica are large white hairs on leg really easy to see the difference when adults. Avics avics. Molt mature from 4 inches + when avics metallicas molt from 5 1/2 to 6 1/2. And on the sarcastic way all are pink toes lol. Advan I thought you were the google expert. Jk. Look when you wanna you most of welcome to come to michigan to see my collection and you will see avicularias you never gonna see in the hobby. ( all import legal for scientific purpose.) And yes im one of the person's to breed sp. kitara way to different from avic. Metallica sp green the one you have in the pics.


I see that you are trying to say something but all I'm hearing are clicking noises.


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## advan (Aug 26, 2014)

ccamaleon3000 said:


> Avic avic are smaller blue in color when avic. Metallica are large white hairs on leg really easy to see the difference when adults. Avics avics. Molt mature from 4 inches + when avics metallicas molt from 5 1/2 to 6 1/2. And on the sarcastic way all are pink toes lol. Advan I thought you were the google expert. Jk. Look when you wanna you most of welcome to come to michigan to see my collection and you will see avicularias you never gonna see in the hobby. ( all import legal for scientific purpose.) And yes im one of the person's to breed sp. kitara way to different from avic. Metallica sp green the one you have in the pics.


If you are importing for scientific purposes, you would be hesitant to describe pet-trade _A. avicularia_ and _A. metaillca_ as the real species that were described as such. Unless of course you have access to the type specimens and are qualified to do such comparisons.  Exporters are not taxonomist and throw names on the stock they are exporting. Much better to have something labelled _Avicularia_ sp. (location) than an incorrect and unidentifiable name as with _A. avicularia_ and _A. metallica_. IMO


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## ccamaleon3000 (Aug 27, 2014)

Its nothing wrong been in the pet trade does no matters what you do for living. And for all you saying "the real avic. Pink toe" that came from exporters when males mature, reproduce and die in my case are send to taxonomist and universities that are studying avicularias. So I hope this will answer what you asking. And thats not the quote of the year. Alot people we been saying this since the 90s. Most of the people saying "avicularia its a mess" its been say what others saying in the past and are new on the pet trade or own 2 rose hairs and a vagans.

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## advan (Aug 27, 2014)

ccamaleon3000 said:


> Its nothing wrong been in the pet trade does no matters what you do for living. And for all you saying "the real avic. Pink toe" that came from exporters when males mature, reproduce and die in my case are send to taxonomist and universities that are studying avicularias. So I hope this will answer what you asking. And thats not the quote of the year. Alot people we been saying this since the 90s. Most of the people saying "avicularia its a mess" its been say what others saying in the past and are new on the pet trade or own 2 rose hairs and a vagans.


The 'real' _Avicularia avicularia_ was the one described by Linnaeus in 1758. Unless the pet-trade material has been examined and compared to the type specimen, you or anybody can not say what the pet-trade has and what is getting imported is the 'real' _Avicularia avicularia_. Do you mind letting us know where your dead specimens are going? There is only one institute _Avicularia_ should be sent to for ID and it is not in the US. 

....and yes, you caught me, I only have two _Grammostola rosea_(another pet-trade name) and one _Brachypelma vagans_(another mess due to pet-trade irresponsibility).

Reactions: Like 1


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## cold blood (Aug 27, 2014)

ccamaleon3000 said:


> Its nothing wrong been in the pet trade does no matters what you do for living..


You lost me, I can't for the life of me figure out even remotely what you are trying to say.  Do you have a conversion for English?


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## BobGrill (Aug 27, 2014)

Biollantefan54 said:


> I understood.....nothing.


I'm going to go ahead and assume English is not his first language.

Reactions: Like 1


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## fuzzyavics72 (Aug 27, 2014)

I understood and you go Ccamaleon!!!!!!  I strive to be like you sir!! I also told you I would come see your amazing avicularia collection!!!!


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## BobGrill (Aug 27, 2014)

fuzzyavics72 said:


> I understood and you go Ccamaleon!!!!!!  I strive to be like you sir!! I also told you I would come see your amazing avicularia collection!!!!


I hope you're trolling.


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## ccamaleon3000 (Aug 28, 2014)

Actually he its not like you BobGrill there its people really care about our tarantulas  have nice day


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## BobGrill (Aug 28, 2014)

ccamaleon3000 said:


> Actually he its not like you BobGrill there its people really care about our tarantulas  have nice day


Yes, because me saying that shows that I don't care about my tarantulas. Makes total sense.


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## ccamaleon3000 (Aug 28, 2014)

If you really care you will say something smart for new people to learn about this species thats why alot people stop reading and posting here because people like you. So if you dont know nothing about the subject keep those comments to you self. And Advan you trying to say Oxford university in uk???


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## BobGrill (Aug 28, 2014)

How does that determine whether or not I care about my own tarantulas? Please explain that one to me.

Reactions: Like 1


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## ratluvr76 (Aug 28, 2014)

I honestly understand so little of this thread it's kind of funny..... I can't tell if I'm just really stupid or .... or what.

Reactions: Like 1


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