# anyone use backyard dirt as substrate?



## EndlessForms (May 11, 2011)

i want to add depth to the substrate in my parahybana tank, she's in a ten gall and the sub is only 2" i know it needs to be a lot deeper. but i don't want to spend 20$ on coco fiber to fill it up..so will it work to use some dirt from my backyard to fill it about halfway up and then put the coco fiber on top of that? does anyone else do this?


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## Warren Bautista (May 11, 2011)

No           .


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## xhexdx (May 11, 2011)

Agreed with Warren.

Go to Home Depot and buy a couple 40lb bags of EarthGro Topsoil.

$1.29/bag


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## BrettG (May 11, 2011)

arachnophile223 said:


> i want to add depth to the substrate in my parahybana tank, she's in a ten gall and the sub is only 2" i know it needs to be a lot deeper. but i don't want to spend 20$ on coco fiber to fill it up..so will it work to use some dirt from my backyard to fill it about halfway up and then put the coco fiber on top of that? does anyone else do this?


Go to lowes and get a bag of peat for $9*** or what Joe mentioned..


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## EndlessForms (May 11, 2011)

xhexdx said:


> Agreed with Warren.
> 
> Go to Home Depot and buy a couple 40lb bags of EarthGro Topsoil.
> 
> $1.29/bag


ok two things, one they seriously sell 40 pound bags for 1.29$??? wow! lol also, whats the difference between topsoil they sell, and topsoil i can go into the woods and get myself?? i admit that my backyard isn't a good place to get it because of possible chemicals in the soil


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## LeilaNami (May 11, 2011)

arachnophile223 said:


> ok two things, one they seriously sell 40 pound bags for 1.29$??? wow! lol also, whats the difference between topsoil they sell, and topsoil i can go into the woods and get myself?? i admit that my backyard isn't a good place to get it because of possible chemicals in the soil


Check the ingredients.  A lot of commercial soils and substrates will add chemicals to the bag which may or may not be safe for the T.  They do sell brands that are chemical free though such as what xhexdx suggested.  I happen to use topsoil from a gravel yard and really only started using it because we had to buy a buttload of it anyway for xeriscaping the yard.


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## EndlessForms (May 11, 2011)

LeilaNami said:


> Check the ingredients.  A lot of commercial soils and substrates will add chemicals to the bag which may or may not be safe for the T.  They do sell brands that are chemical free though such as what xhexdx suggested.  I happen to use topsoil from a gravel yard and really only started using it because we had to buy a buttload of it anyway for xeriscaping the yard.


exactly, but my point is, if there selling top soil with no additives, its just plain dirt, why should i buy their plain dirt, instead of going out into a less populated area and getting my own??


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## LeilaNami (May 11, 2011)

arachnophile223 said:


> exactly, but my point is, if there selling top soil with no additives, its just plain dirt, why should i buy their plain dirt, instead of going out into a less populated area and getting my own??


That's the million dollar question isn't it?  I honestly don't see much of a difference in buying store-bought top soil and soil that you sterilize yourself.  You just have to be careful where you get it as some areas use pesticides even if it's not someone's yard.  Store-bought brands will be safer in that regard as long as you buy one without additives.  So, unless you are certain that the topsoil you are digging up has not been exposed to pesticides, chemicals, or contaminated run off, then I would probably buy store-bought brands if you want less of a risk.  However, I will say that I've used dirt from outside before with no issue.


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## RoseT (May 11, 2011)

Your spider deserves quality, just go out and get it something that most likely won't have any other bugs w it.


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## xhexdx (May 11, 2011)

arachnophile223 said:


> exactly, but my point is, if there selling top soil with no additives, its just plain dirt, why should i buy their plain dirt, instead of going out into a less populated area and getting my own??


Because the dirt you get from outside is full of bugs, mites, seeds, fungi...


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## LeilaNami (May 11, 2011)

xhexdx said:


> Because the dirt you get from outside is full of bugs, mites, seeds, fungi...


Which the majority of that can still be sterilized and sifted out of the dirt.  It's a lot more work but it is still possible to do.  I've also bought plenty of bags from the store that had the same issue with fungi and bugs flourishing in the packaging.  So the main reason I would probably buy from the store rather than dig up substrate would be the time and effort I would have to put into sterilizing it before using.


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## xhexdx (May 11, 2011)

Ok then.  You asked, I (and others) answered.  Do whatever you want to do.


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## LeilaNami (May 11, 2011)

xhexdx said:


> Ok then.  You asked, I (and others) answered.  Do whatever you want to do.


I'm not the one who posted this thread. :?


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## xhexdx (May 11, 2011)

LeilaNami said:


> I'm not the one who posted this thread. :?


I also didn't quote you in my response.


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## LeilaNami (May 11, 2011)

xhexdx said:


> I also didn't quote you in my response.


Ah okay.  I'm just giving information based on experience, readings, and practices of myself and others with much more experience than I.  I didn't mean to offend you if I did.


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## syndicate (May 11, 2011)

As long as your area isn't sprayed with pesticides I see no harm using soil collected from outside!I use leaf litter from outside and have used pieces of wood and bark as well.For using bark or wood make sure to let them dry very well before placing in a tank.
Also make sure if you are using soil from outside you don't dig up any ant colonys with the soil lol!They wont do to well with your spiders ;]
-Chris


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## redrumpslump (May 11, 2011)

syndicate said:


> As long as your area isn't sprayed with pesticides I see no harm using soil collected from outside!I use leaf litter from outside and have used pieces of wood and bark as well.For using bark or wood make sure to let them dry very well before placing in a tank.
> Also make sure if you are using soil from outside you don't dig up any ant colonys with the soil lol!They wont do to well with your spiders ;]
> -Chris


Ive used bark from the outdoors as well. I just baked it in the oven to kill any pest or fungus I couldn't see. Stunk for a bit but better than any mites or anything like that. My question would be could the OP bake the soil to kill any unwanted guest? I don't know if it's plausible or not just kinda throwing it out there.

Matt


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## groovyspider (May 11, 2011)

i see what the op is saying but so what spend the twenty i mean me personally i have no problem spending my last penny on my babies id buy them food before id eat thats just me though


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## EndlessForms (May 11, 2011)

redrumpslump said:


> Ive used bark from the outdoors as well. I just baked it in the oven to kill any pest or fungus I couldn't see. Stunk for a bit but better than any mites or anything like that. My question would be could the OP bake the soil to kill any unwanted guest? I don't know if it's plausible or not just kinda throwing it out there.
> Matt


yes i was going to bake and or freeze it  



groovyspider said:


> i see what the op is saying but so what spend the twenty i mean me personally i have no problem spending my last penny on my babies id buy them food before id eat thats just me though


i am the same way, but the only problem with this is, if i spend my last penny, i wouldn't have any money left to buy food for them :?


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## groovyspider (May 11, 2011)

arachnophile223 said:


> i am the same way, but the only problem with this is, if i spend my last penny, i wouldn't have any money left to buy food for them :?


:? i get about ten large for a dollar at my lps im not aspose to get that many but well im a regular  i mean ill give you a dollar man you dont live but twenty mins from me


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## EndlessForms (May 11, 2011)

groovyspider said:


> :? i get about ten large for a dollar at my lps im not aspose to get that many but well im a regular  i mean ill give you a dollar man you dont live but twenty mins from me


lolz well i have literally, 10$ so i'm gonna not spend that in case i have an emergency with them or something and to buy them food. the only reason i wanted more substrate is to add maybe a half burried cave\plants and maybe a few small hills here and there the tank is just a basic 'hide and dish' right now i like to make 'em a bit more elaborate that that


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## groovyspider (May 11, 2011)

arachnophile223 said:


> lolz well i have literally, 10$ so i'm gonna not spend that in case i have an emergency with them or something and to buy them food. the only reason i wanted more substrate is to add maybe a half burried cave\plants and maybe a few small hills here and there the tank is just a basic 'hide and dish' right now i like to make 'em a bit more elaborate that that


ok i see.hmm wait till next payday


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## EndlessForms (May 11, 2011)

groovyspider said:


> ok i see.hmm wait till next payday


you mean wait 'till i can get a job lol no one will hire me until i'm sixteen in October :wall:


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## neubii18 (May 11, 2011)

Warren Bautista said:


> No           .


This made me laugh!Straight and to the point!Lol!

To the OP.It's probably not safe.I would just get some Sphagnum Peat Moss from HomeDepot for like $2.Very soft bedding.My favorite.


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## Hobo (May 11, 2011)

You can buy the exact same coco coir you can get at a pet store at any home depot or gardening center. The only difference being the packaging, quantity (you get more) and price (it will be significantly cheaper). 
I bought three cubic feet of the stuff for $7.
At the pet store, that won't even get me two small bricks... And all just because it's "for pets". It's the biggest scam.


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## EndlessForms (May 11, 2011)

asn1234 said:


> This made me laugh!Straight and to the point!Lol!
> 
> To the OP.It's probably not safe.I would just get some Sphagnum Peat Moss from HomeDepot for like $2.Very soft bedding.My favorite.


awesome. how much do you get for 2$?



Hobo said:


> You can buy the exact same coco coir you can get at a pet store at any home depot or gardening center. The only difference being the packaging, quantity (you get more) and price (it will be significantly cheaper).
> I bought three cubic feet of the stuff for $7.
> At the pet store, that won't even get me two small bricks... And all just because it's "for pets". It's the biggest scam.


lol yeah i didn't know that you can get it there..gotta go check it out


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## groovyspider (May 11, 2011)

Hobo said:


> You can buy the exact same coco coir you can get at a pet store at any home depot or gardening center. The only difference being the packaging, quantity (you get more) and price (it will be significantly cheaper).
> I bought three cubic feet of the stuff for $7.
> At the pet store, that won't even get me two small bricks... And all just because it's "for pets". It's the biggest scam.


for real? ?


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## ZergFront (May 11, 2011)

I don't dig substrate out myself(never know what plant food my Mom put in or where my Dad might have used weed killer). I use potting soil I buy. Check the ingredients in the back to make sure there is no wood chips, fertilizers, manure, etc.

 For added safety, I broil it in pans in the oven to kill stuff that might be living in there. Don't leave home with the oven on.


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## LeilaNami (May 12, 2011)

As far as baking the soil, yes you can.  I tend to soak the dirt for a day or so before cooking it though.  You then spread a thin layer in a baking dish so it heats up through out.  As for wood, it's better to put it in water and soak it before putting it in the oven because the water heats up far better and penetrates far better than if just heating dry wood.  That is how many driftwood sellers sterilize their wood.  You then have to let it cool for a while before use.  Unless you are flat out broke, it would be more economical work wise to just buy some cheap soil from the garden center.  Otherwise, if you have a few days on your hands, you can do what I said.  I do this sometimes when I get fed up with buying contaminated bags that I have to sterilize myself anyway.  I would be weary using leaf litter with inverts simply because it is difficult to sterilize if there happens to be anything hitch-hiking on it. 

And yes, many products marketed for pets are scams.  Heat lamps come to mind. 

Edit: Just keep in mind that sterilization may or may not be 100% complete depending on what is actually in the dirt but should kill everything that will actually be a problem to the animal.


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## AphonopelmaTX (May 13, 2011)

I don't really understand the chemical and pesticide paranoia that occurs in questions regarding soil from the outdoors.  It sometimes appears that everyone forgets or doesn't know tarantulas live in people's backyards and in city run parks in their range in the country.  Some, at least from what I've seen in the suburbs of Dallas/ Ft. Worth Texas, have very well maintained landscaping!  If chemicals were such a big problem that the pet trade community makes it out to be, I don't think tarantulas would be as prevalent in suburban neighborhoods as they are. Also, it seems very unlikely that the top soil, compost, peat moss, etc. bought at a garden center is sterile or even "clean."  Who knows what trucks it is carried around in or even where it comes from exactly?

If one wants to try using soil from the backyard, it's really easy to try out.  Just put some in a container and keep it as if there was a tarantula in it and find out if you start growing things in it.  The chemical argument to not using backyard soil is silly I think, but organisms growing out of control in the soil is likely but could easily be tested for.  A little experimentation, common sense, and trial and error will go a lot further with captive husbandry practices than following the unsubstantiated and vague responses here.


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## EndlessForms (May 13, 2011)

AphonopelmaTX said:


> I don't really understand the chemical and pesticide paranoia that occurs in questions regarding soil from the outdoors.  It sometimes appears that everyone forgets or doesn't know tarantulas live in people's backyards and in city run parks in their range in the country.  Some, at least from what I've seen in the suburbs of Dallas/ Ft. Worth Texas, have very well maintained landscaping!  If chemicals were such a big problem that the pet trade community makes it out to be, I don't think tarantulas would be as prevalent in suburban neighborhoods as they are. Also, it seems very unlikely that the top soil, compost, peat moss, etc. bought at a garden center is sterile or even "clean."  Who knows what trucks it is carried around in or even where it comes from exactly?
> 
> If one wants to try using soil from the backyard, it's really easy to try out.  Just put some in a container and keep it as if there was a tarantula in it and find out if you start growing things in it.  The chemical argument to not using backyard soil is silly I think, but organisms growing out of control in the soil is likely but could easily be tested for.  A little experimentation, common sense, and trial and error will go a lot further with captive husbandry practices than following the unsubstantiated and vague responses here.


*like* lol


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## esotericman (May 13, 2011)

Ignoring the paranoia regarding possible organisms in the soil which might harm an alien species, I have four practical considerations to ponder.

1)  Soil is HEAVY.  A shelf full of soil filled enclosures could weigh more than that same shelf full of books.  This is a real concern as many keepers have stacks of animals.  If you had a couple naturalist vivaria, not a big deal.

2)  Handling substrate moisture in soil can be a real pain.  If you over wet coir or peat, you only have to increase the air flow and the surface will be dry in a couple hours.  With heavy clay soils, it could take days.  Also, water does not move into soil the same way, thus you'd need to account for that when you do add water, assuming you're not keeping a desert species.

3)  One of the reasons for molting is to replace damaged exoskeletons.  Damage occurs due soil abrasion.  If you have an obligate burrower which evolved to deal with soft loams and you put it in a sandy soil, you could cause some interesting care issues.  

4)  Store purchased "soil" often has "compost" or "night soil" or basically composed feces from humans or livestock.  I have a difficult time finding soil at my local home depot which does not have either wetting agents or compost in it.  The concern with compost is that it is not regulated via labeling, and you could be doing your best only to end up with lead and cadmium levels in your substrate high enough to cause issues.

Now then, if you're comfortable dealing with those ideas, then feel free do collect soil which you are sure is safe.  Contaminants are of variable concern depending on where you live or how far away from people you can get.  And while I do not believe there is a single pathogen in most soil (worldwide site after all), I do agree that pasteurization to avoid weeds is a good idea.  

There have been plenty of great keepers who have used native soils over the years, and I have never seen a report to suggest there are any risks other than what I suggested.

Lastly, if you do use soil, please share the pictures and observations, it is the only way any of us learn anything.


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## Jrod (May 13, 2011)

arachnophile223 said:


> i want to add depth to the substrate in my parahybana tank, she's in a ten gall and the sub is only 2" i know it needs to be a lot deeper. but i don't want to spend 20$ on coco fiber to fill it up..so will it work to use some dirt from my backyard to fill it about halfway up and then put the coco fiber on top of that? does anyone else do this?


no it mite hive bacteras the mit kill her onles you water it then put it in your microwave


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## groovyspider (May 13, 2011)

Jrod said:


> no it mite hive bacteras the mit kill her onles you water it then put it in your microwave



:clap: i actaully some what undrstud wut uo sed


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## Jrod (May 13, 2011)

*no*



arachnophile223 said:


> exactly, but my point is, if there selling top soil with no additives, its just plain dirt, why should i buy their plain dirt, instead of going out into a less populated area and getting my own??



just buy coco husk thats what i use it like a spong it holds humity

gust my som from pet co

---------- Post added at 06:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:38 PM ----------




groovyspider said:


> :clap: i actaully some what undrstud wut uo sed


ya i can not spell i am ging to git a indan ortemintel have ed vise


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## cromero68 (May 13, 2011)

Coco Husk and vermiculite is all you need. For plants maybe mixing potting soil with out the chems/fertilizers with the c. husk and verm.


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## baboonfan (May 13, 2011)

arachnophile223 said:


> i want to add depth to the substrate in my parahybana tank, she's in a ten gall and the sub is only 2" i know it needs to be a lot deeper. but i don't want to spend 20$ on coco fiber to fill it up..so will it work to use some dirt from my backyard to fill it about halfway up and then put the coco fiber on top of that? does anyone else do this?


Chemicals in the soil along with unwanted local wildlife could be a serious problem. More eco earth is the way to go.


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## EndlessForms (May 13, 2011)

*guys, i know about coco fiber, and am no noob to vermiculite, so you dont need to tell me about them*

i'm simply asking a hypothetical question all i need is answers regarding the pros and cons of using [sterilized] soil  i don't need to be told all the benefits of coco fiber, i know it's WAY better, but this was just an idea to expand a bit..


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## groovyspider (May 13, 2011)

Jrod said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> ya i can not spell i am ging to git a indan ortemintel have ed vise


no i dont hsve any pookies :razz:


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## baboonfan (May 13, 2011)

arachnophile223 said:


> ok two things, one they seriously sell 40 pound bags for 1.29$??? wow! lol also, whats the difference between topsoil they sell, and topsoil i can go into the woods and get myself?? i admit that my backyard isn't a good place to get it because of possible chemicals in the soil


Chemicals are a potential problem but I would worry more about local wildlife. If I were to use soil in my area I can know that I would have ants galore in my T cage.


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## EndlessForms (May 14, 2011)

baboonfan said:


> Chemicals are a potential problem but I would worry more about local wildlife. If I were to use soil in my area I can know that I would have ants galore in my T cage.


well obviously, i would bake and boil the soil before using it, so it would clean out all that stuff..


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## jeryst (May 17, 2011)

I just bought a huge bag (8.8 liters) of loose Eco-earth at Petsmart for $9.00.

More than enough to fill up just about anything.


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## EndlessForms (May 17, 2011)

jeryst said:


> I just bought a huge bag (8.8 liters) of loose Eco-earth at Petsmart for $9.00.
> 
> More than enough to fill up just about anything.


WOW...i got some sphagnum peat moss 85 liters for the same price...i think i like that lol


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## Ictinike (May 17, 2011)

AphonopelmaTX said:


> I don't really understand the chemical and pesticide paranoia that occurs in questions regarding soil from the outdoors.  It sometimes appears that everyone forgets or doesn't know tarantulas live in people's backyards and in city run parks in their range in the country.  Some, at least from what I've seen in the suburbs of Dallas/ Ft. Worth Texas, have very well maintained landscaping!  If chemicals were such a big problem that the pet trade community makes it out to be, I don't think tarantulas would be as prevalent in suburban neighborhoods as they are. Also, it seems very unlikely that the top soil, compost, peat moss, etc. bought at a garden center is sterile or even "clean."  Who knows what trucks it is carried around in or even where it comes from exactly?


I wanted to audience this a bit and your comments.

Sure tarantulas live in the wild and in may peoples back yards and they were born there.  The mother and father both lived there most likely and over time and successive generations have built a tolerance to the possible pesticides and fauna that reside in the same area.  Wild caught T's would have this and if you were to collect soil from the surrounding area it was caught, assuming it's not a far traveling male, you most likely would be OK however in captive bred pets, which is most of what the hobby is striving for, do not have these tolerances.

Captive bred spiders live in a fairly clean and isolated world and releasing the potential hazards from local soil may prove too much for them to overcome thus resulting in death.  Because they have not built up those defenses to possible pesticides, chemicals and local fauna it would be like taking a boy/girl in a bubble (those in specially designed sterile environments) and shoving them into a mosh pit.  They most likely would contract any number of conditions.

Lastly this effect is not simply isolated in the T world but any and most life on the planet.  Ever hear of small pox decimating the local population of indigenous tribes of the new world?  Yes, same effect.  Explorers coming from Europe to North America so many years ago brought with them various diseases and items (read: alcohol) that proved, in most cases, detrimental to the local indigenous tribes.  The locals had never been exposed to such things thus were at it's mercy until they as well went through rounds and rounds of disease, death and ultimate tolerance.

This is why many state this opinion and not because they know this directly or just repeat what has been told to them but is the backbone of why the argument persists.

Thanks!


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## esotericman (May 18, 2011)

I can not find a single thing in that which is not based on wild assumption.

Assuming the parents (WC) can "build up a tolerance to pesticides" but that it is not inherent in the species for example.  What mechanism would allow species to adapt, yet disappear in CB generations?  Furthermore, are we talking about pesticides with half-lives measure in decades?  Pesticides are not heavy metals which stick around for decades or longer.

I fail to see what small pox has to do with anything in regards to tarantulas.  The assumption here is that soil has pathogens with the ability to infect tarantulas.  There is host specificity involved in diseases/parasites.  I am willing to entertain ideas that native soil can kill tarantulas, but only with evidence.  Far too many people have used soil without a single death.

The many are paranoid at worse, or ignorant at best.  I have yet to see a single soil organism which has ever been shown to kill tarantulas, in our hobby (USA).  I've used soil for a few tarantulas myself, and for over 5 years, no deaths.  

Now, as I said, this is an international site, and what works for my collection might not work for others.  There are soil fungi which can kill tarantulas, but those are in the tropics.  But it has been documented, the rest as I stated along with AphonopelmaTX is unsupported.

Wade Warila was always a huge supporter of natural soils, as was Cedrik (Mr. Pterinochilus) and others.  Parroting what people have seen on websites holds no water compared to decades of combined keeping.


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