# Help with Ethmostigmus trigonopodus



## SamuraiSid (Nov 17, 2013)

I bought this centipede back in May. Its my first centipede. I have it in a large jar, 12" diameter 14" high. Approximately 4" of peat moss for substrate. Some small fake plants on the surface, too small for him to possibly hide. Ive got a plastic 2oz. cup as a water dish.

When I first got him, he was on the surface for a few days before digging a burrow to the bottom of the enclosure. over the next couple of weeks I would find that he moved the openings pretty regularly. Id guess that after one month of owning him, he had a nice little hole in the ground to live in, but no entrance.

Id randomly throw in some crickets, superworms and superworm beetles and within a couple of days they completely disapear, with no sign that the centipede came to the surface. I have seen some superworms have burrowed to the bottom. I was hoping he would feel through his walls and go after them, much like my Neostenotarsus sp. Tarantula. 

In terms of temp and humidity, I treat him the same as all my tarantulas, except I keep his substrate slightly moist.


Is this pretty standard behaviour for this species? If he is going to stay at the bottom and never show himself, Im comfortable letting him do that and doing whatever I can to ensure he is as comfortable and long lived as I can. But at the same time my interest in him is waning. Maybe change his set-up?

Also wondering if there are any species of centipede which are on the large size, and more active and out in the open. This is my most "insane" animal, and I really love centipedes, but not if I never see it.


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## melijoc (Nov 17, 2013)

Rehouse it using only about half an inch soil and moss on top for moisture. This way it has no choice but to stay on the surface. If you not you'll most likely just see it at night in the dark using a flashlight

---------- Post added 11-17-2013 at 01:53 PM ----------

Rehouse it using only about half an inch soil and moss on top for moisture. This way it has no choice but to stay on the surface. If you not you'll most likely just see it at night in the dark using a flashlight


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## SamuraiSid (Nov 17, 2013)

Thank you. I will change it up.


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## Kazaam (Nov 18, 2013)

melijoc said:


> This way it has no choice but to stay on the surface.


You'll also end up stressing it a lot this way, and you shouldn't have gotten these animals if that's what you want.

A 'pede you don't see is a healthy 'pede.

Reactions: Like 2


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## MelissaDBrown (Nov 19, 2013)

I would personally keep it in the habitat set up you have and maybe consider getting another species that stays out more. My S. heros almost never burrows so it's out 99% of the time. I just got a Rhysida longipes and it comes out in the evening. But my polymorpha is never seen. It's happy that way so I let it do its thing to stay healthy and feel secure. I decided to get other species that I can observe because it never comes out except when I'm asleep.


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## Beardo (Nov 19, 2013)

If you go with the less substrate approach, make sure to provide a few hiding spots for the centipede.....usually cork bark flats will work perfect for this purpose and it won't stress the animal out.


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## SamuraiSid (Nov 19, 2013)

Thanks for the help Ill admit I bought it on impulse from an expo. I had never before seen one in real life, and couldnt pass up the opportunity.

For now Im going to leave it as is.  But Im going to start looking for a slightly longer enclosure where I can cut the substrate down to an inch and provide a naturalistic set-up with lots of scrapes and hides for it. Hopefully I can lure it out occasionally with prey items. 

At least this way Ill have a nice looking enclosure to look at, instead of a jar of dirt.


Of all the animals Ive ever owned, nothing has compared to the Centipede in its ability to make your jaw hit the floor. Truly spectacular, and I will definitely be researching S. heros.


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## Kazaam (Nov 20, 2013)

SamuraiSid said:


> cut the substrate down to an inch





SamuraiSid said:


> a naturalistic set-up


Pick one, and only one.


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## Elytra and Antenna (Nov 20, 2013)

Kazaam said:


> You'll also end up stressing it a lot this way, and you shouldn't have gotten these animals if that's what you want.
> 
> A 'pede you don't see is a healthy 'pede.


 Unless it died six months ago or unless there really is no evidence for assuming a buried centipede is healthier by default without any associated data. I have reared E. trigonopodus from hatchling to adult on very shallow substrate with 100% survival of the specimens kept. If a keeper can't remember to check on the animals and the substrate dries out, very shallow substrate can be deadly but the cause of death desiccation.


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## Kazaam (Nov 20, 2013)

Elytra and Antenna said:


> I have reared E. trigonopodus from hatchling to adult on very shallow substrate with 100% survival of the specimens kept.


Surviving =/= thriving.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Elytra and Antenna (Nov 20, 2013)

Kazaam said:


> Surviving =/= thriving.


 100% thrival then.
Your goal then is not survival and health but rather an emotional feeling you get from your centipedes? How exactly do you measure the smile on your centipede's face? I am not joking, I would like to know you gather such data.


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## Gel (Nov 20, 2013)

Not taking sides here, but I just wanted to add, I have an S. alternans (Haitian variant) who is always on the surface despite me trying various enclosures, and substrate depths. This is despite alternans' reputation of remaining burrowed. Currently I have 5 inches of damp (not wet) substrate and it's usually on the surface. It will burrow occasionally; the last time (of significant duration) being when it successfully molted under my care. I also do notice holes in the substrate, but most of it's time is spent sitting in the open. 

My Ethmostigmus trigonopodus goes through phases. Sometimes it will be visible at the top a lot of the time, and other times, like now, it has been buried for a few weeks; perhaps premolt.

I wonder if it just depends on the individual, if burrowing is really a natural requirement, or if it benefits more from hiding under a nice scrape?

Is burrowing a molting requirement?

I know for those who have collected desert species, their advice is usually to flip over rocks (which create scrapes) where they are often found.

---------- Post added 11-20-2013 at 03:38 PM ----------

About centipedes being found in/under scrapes...I wonder if it's more of a situational thing, in other words, what's available to them to hide. Is a scrape better than a burrow or vice versa? Or it doesn't matter as long as they are hidden?


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## zonbonzovi (Nov 20, 2013)

Gel said:


> Is burrowing a molting requirement?


In captivity I've never noticed a centipede molting anywhere other than out "in the open" but I think it easy to presume that living in a 3D object in a dark room lends itself to the 'pede's sense of security.  They need very little room to maneuver while molting and it seems that the rough edges of a scrape would be advantageous to removing the molt expediently.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kazaam (Nov 20, 2013)

Elytra and Antenna said:


> 100% thrival then.
> Your goal then is not survival and health but rather an emotional feeling you get from your centipedes? How exactly do you measure the smile on your centipede's face? I am not joking, I would like to know you gather such data.


The same way you measure thrival.

---------- Post added 11-20-2013 at 04:36 PM ----------

Most of my 'pedes molt underground by the way.


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## Elytra and Antenna (Nov 20, 2013)

Kazaam said:


> The same way you measure thrival.
> 
> ---------- Post added 11-20-2013 at 04:36 PM ----------
> 
> Most of my 'pedes molt underground by the way.


 No, my measurement is based on health (in terms of longevity), survival during development, and successful reproduction in captivity. By refusing to answer honestly you are admitting your base measurement is your emotions.


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## Kazaam (Nov 20, 2013)

Elytra and Antenna said:


> No, my measurement is based on health (in terms of longevity), survival during development, and successful reproduction in captivity. By refusing to answer honestly you are admitting your base measurement is your emotions.


That what I do to measure their 'happiness' for as far as that goes for them.

So yes, and I'm not refusing to answer anything.


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## Elytra and Antenna (Nov 20, 2013)

Thrival is the act of thriving and E. trigonopodus certainly are capable of thriving when provide a shallow layer of substrate. 





Kazaam said:


> That what I do to measure their 'happiness' for as far as that goes for them.
> 
> So yes, and I'm not refusing to answer anything.


 You did not answer my question how you measure happiness but made a comment about thrival (answering a question with a question). I can say I have reared this species to adult, bred and produced young from captive hatched reared to maturity in captivity, and have published some photographic documentation of the events. Even if you could say the same you would only prove deeper substrate is another option, not a better option. I agree.


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## Kazaam (Nov 20, 2013)

Elytra and Antenna said:


> Thrival is the act of thriving and E. trigonopodus certainly are capable of thriving when provide a shallow layer of substrate


They're also capable of thriving more with a deeper layer.


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## Elytra and Antenna (Nov 22, 2013)

Kazaam said:


> They're also capable of thriving more with a deeper layer.


 You have no evidence for "thriving more."


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## Kazaam (Nov 22, 2013)

Elytra and Antenna said:


> You have no evidence for "thriving more."


It speaks for itself that an animal that is capable of burrowing is more capable of thriving when it can do that if it wants, even when by your saying it can be perfectly fine if it can't.

Maybe yours want to burrow, but can't, that makes mine more capable.


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## Elytra and Antenna (Nov 22, 2013)

Kazaam said:


> Maybe yours want....


Without objective criteria, your emotional plea for what you feel is the most enjoyable wholly unnatural enclosure for this species combines anthropomorphism with subjective emotional appeal. Hopefully most keepers do not follow advice based on emotions over evidence. There are very good reasons for employing shallow or deep substrate but the imagined desires of the centipede are not among them.


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## Kazaam (Nov 22, 2013)

Elytra and Antenna said:


> Without objective criteria, your emotional plea for what you feel is the most enjoyable wholly unnatural enclosure for this species combines anthropomorphism with subjective emotional appeal. Hopefully most keepers do not follow advice based on emotions over evidence. There are very good reasons for employing shallow or deep substrate but the imagined desires of the centipede are not among them.


That's very cute, but I'm not basing this on emotions or feelings.
They are known for being able to burrow, and being able to reason tells me they might be able to thrive more when they can do that.
I can keep obligate burrowers alive and thriving on a few inch of substrate, that doesn't mean that they can't thrive even more with a deeper layer of substrate.

But you can keep pulling assumptions out of thin air of you want to, all fine by me.


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## SamuraiSid (Nov 22, 2013)

I have heard not to use KK's as centipedes can bite through the plastic ventilation slits. Is there any truth to this, or is it an issue with my pede?


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## Kazaam (Nov 22, 2013)

SamuraiSid said:


> I have heard not to use KK's as centipedes can bite through the plastic ventilation slits. Is there any truth to this, or is it an issue with my pede?


Probably, their jaws are pretty powerful.

But then again, tarantulas have also been reported to chew through mesh wire which is used in many of their homes in the hobby and I don't recall any escapes because of it.

Tarantulas aren't 'pedes though.


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## melijoc (Nov 22, 2013)

We buy these insects so we can see and appreciate them. To each is their own. Shallow substate and moss works for me as well as a claypot hide cut in half. If some of you guys like staring at empty looking cages..that's fine by me. Being a new owner of scolopendra galapagoensis robusta I know I'd want to see it all the time...and not when it only feels like coming out.

---------- Post added 11-22-2013 at 02:27 PM ----------

Same with dogs. They are supposed to be wild but we domesticated them because we love their companion. Are you guys telling me to just let them loose in the wild because its nature and that by forcing them to live in captivity with us you stress them out cuz its their"nature" ...gimme a break ..gimme a break lemme have a piece of that kitkat bar... they simply adapt to what they are faced. Thats my two cents on this matter


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## Kazaam (Nov 22, 2013)

We don't, since they're not insects.

You're now comparing domesticated animals to wild animals.


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## zonbonzovi (Nov 22, 2013)

"It is suggested that both species are enabled to continue feeding in damp areas after the rains have ended by virtue of their mobility and large size (with consequent greater resistance to desiccation). Increasing aridity drives them into crevices in the soil where a relatively rich fauna may persist through the dry season. The young appear at the beginning of the rains, thereby having the entire rainy season available for feeding."

The life histories and distribution of the centipedes Rhysida nuda togoensis and Ethmostigmus trigonopodus (Scolopendromorpha: Scolopendridae) in Nigeria
Journal of Zoology
Volume 167, Issue 4, pages 399–414, August 1972
JGE Lewis

I'll also paraphrase from memory: E. T. has been know to inhabit abandoned termite mounds as the seasons turn arid in their respective territory(sorry, I've lost the citation) but I'm sure you can find it through a search via Google or AB as I've listed it before.  My point is that I don't believe it's as black and white as to burrow/not to burrow.  Not unlike teen boys, centipedes(even desert dwellers IME) are moisture seeking missiles

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## Elytra and Antenna (Nov 25, 2013)

Kazaam said:


> They are known for being able to burrow, and being able to reason tells me they might be able to thrive more when they can do that.


 You are simply not going to get the concept of measurable criteria. Reason should also tell you that if it cannot be measured in terms of survival, growth, or reproduction then you have no proof.


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