# UVB bulb alternative?



## tyrant963 (Jan 13, 2008)

Can plant lights be an alternative from buying UVB lights?  They are inexpensive, but i dont know if it will produce UVB rays.  The uvb bulbs at petstores are pretty expensive.  So can plant lights be an alternative?? or is there another way to improvise?


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## arachnophoria (Jan 13, 2008)

What reptile are you keeping,that needs UVB?Plant bulbs DO NOT produce enough UVB,but I should be able to assist you in finding something suitable,that is not as pricey.


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## tyrant963 (Jan 13, 2008)

Im trying to house my little blue tongue skink .  Someone from repticzone told me Miner-all is an alternative to UVB lights.  Just dust food every feeding.  Will this work?(works for all reptiles)


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## arachnophoria (Jan 13, 2008)

Minerall is not a bad product,but no reptile should be raised with supplementation,instead of UVB.Some may claim to have done so,but it is unhealthy and many studies suggest that reptiles(ecspecially herbivores) are unable to use dietary D3,which is what UVB expsoure allows the reptile make on its own.Minerall I and Minerall O would be good to use on a rotational basis to be sure your pet gets the right amount of calcium,but it must be done carefully,b/c one can overdose D3 also.I would just play it safe and use the repcal products.Get the plain calcium and Reptivite by them and if you'd like,then get the Minerall I or repcal with D3.For your skink,depending on your enclosure,I would go with a reptisun 10.0 or a mecury vapor bulb from reptileuv.com,they will customize or help you pick the best bulb based on your needs.The bulb they sell will last you a year at least and be cheaper in the long run,but cost a bit more initially.I have used both bulbs and they are both excellent.You can use bulbs from LOWES,the Sylvania plant bulbs that are incandescent,make great basking lights and are cheaper than pet store basking bulbs.These ARE NOT a substitute for UVB.Good luck and feel free to PM me with any questions.


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## tyrant963 (Jan 13, 2008)

Great info, Im probably going to order mercury vapor bulb.


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## Bear Foot Inc (Jan 13, 2008)

I'd go with a repta sun 10... you can pick one up for $20 bucks, i never liked mercury vapor bulbs, if they brake, just think what your breathing...

~Samuel


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## arachnophoria (Jan 13, 2008)

Most models are much safer and the mercury is contained inside a glass envelope,with safegaurds against it escaping.Mercury vapor is night right for all situations,but IME is the best artificial light source we have available.


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## mbreptiles (Jan 13, 2008)

*UVB and Supplements for Skinks*

I beleive what arachnophoria was triny to say was use Rep Cal Calcium with D3. They make 2 kinds with D3, the original calcium with D3 comes in a white container with a white label, the ultrafine comes in a white container with a pink lable. Both of these 2 are good. I would also suggest the Rep Cal Herptivite which comes in a white container with a clue label. Do not buy the Rep Cal calcium with the green label, as this one is for animals housed OUTDOORS. If you do decide to use the Sticky Tongue Minerall, make sure it is the Minerall I (indoor) not the Minerall (O). I do use several different types of UV lighting, I also do not recommend using plant lights, as he said they do not throw off a good amount of UVB. I do use Mercury Vapor Bulbs on our animals along with the flourescent coils or tubes like the 2.0's, 4.0's,5.0's,8.0's, and 10.0's. They all seem to work great, however I have found that the Mercury Vapors seem to bring out the animals color alot more (especially with bearded dragons which of course does not apply here). I use mercury vapors on our shingleback skinks ( R. asper ). Here is a picture of one.


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## arachnophoria (Jan 14, 2008)

I LOVE SHINGLEBACKS!!!Too expensive for me...more than my Calumma parsonii even!!!I DO NOT advise using a calcium product with D3 every time.I alternate between plain calcium and calcium with D3 and expose my animals to proper UVB and direct sunlight,when possible.I have done this with everything from tortoises to chameleons.I do not argue though,as I am sure the last poster has a method working for him.Supplementation is a much debated part of herp husbandry and has lots of variables,such as the gender and breeding condition of the animal,age,overall diet,and UVB exposure.Feed your skink a high quality,fresh diet and supplement twice a week,once with D3 and once without and both times with a bit of vitamins.That should work well for anything,but a gravid female.Less is usually more.I am not tooting my own horn,but I was a vet tech and own the Mader Reptile medicine and surgery book,with nutrition advice given by Sue Donaghue.That said to show I'm not blowing smoke,but doesn't mean there aren't more than one way to skin a cat or raise a skink.


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## mbreptiles (Jan 14, 2008)

I believe that using D3 with animals that are exposed to natural sunlight is a bad idea, however some people will disagree. The best thing to do is use what is working for you, like you said. What works for you may not work for me. There are several different methods that work, some I have found better than others. I am always trying new things that come along, because they might be better than what I am currently doing or using. But I do believe nothing beats Mercury Vapor Bulbs. When tested they are the best UVB source hands down, although I do use 10.0's and what have you on several animals as well. The T-rex Mercury Vapors are pretty spending, but they read the highest on my meter. They seem to have the longest life as well. I don't have any posted on our site for some odd reason, but we do stock them. If you have trouble finding some at a good price, PM me and I will see what I can do on them.


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## mbreptiles (Jan 14, 2008)

*add on*

I also wanted to mention that yes, I do agree that you can supplement too much D3.


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## arachnophoria (Jan 14, 2008)

I agree with the use of D3,just not all of the time.Even with indoor animals,under UVB,with D3 at best,we are helping them maintain healthy D3 levels for bone health and calcium metabolizeing,at the worst,we are giving them something they can't even use or overdosing.Also,it is important to give reptiles a vitamin supplement with preformed vitamin A in in it.Herbivores are better at converting beta carotene from orange veggies into vitamin A,than carniverous reptiles,but it is an often misused,but vital componenet to the reptile's well being.I would suggest that you look at some sites such as www.chameleonnews.com,www.iguanaden.com,anapsid.org.Some of these sites will have contradicting information and Melissa Kaplan does not like mercury vapor bulbs,but her take on iguan diets and nutrition is excellent IMO.You can learn a lot by makeing comparisons between species.Also,please stay away from canned foods from the pet store or cta or dog food.If you need help with a healthy diet,ask here or PM me.Glad to help.


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## mbreptiles (Jan 14, 2008)

*.*

I agree that mercury vapors are not for all types of reptiles, however I have found them to be good for my shinglebacks. I will have to disagree however regarding the canned dog food. Jim Pether owner/manager of the reptile park in the Canary Islands told me to feed a good brand of canned dog food (I use Inova) mixed with vegies and bananas.


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## arachnophoria (Jan 14, 2008)

I agree that there are canned foods that can be used,but they are not typically available at your local gorcery store and witt he levels of A,zinc,and low quality protein in those things,I just though it best to steer him/her away from anything like that.I have used K/D by Hills,which is a low protien,high fat canned food to offer some of my omnivores,but I researched it and it is designe for dogs in with renal problems,so should be safe for reptile kidneys.Reptile kidneys are sensitive to too much protein and over supplementation.Skinks,I imagine are much hardier than chameleons,but since I worked mostly with them and learned the majority of my nutrition knowledge from researching and experimenting with them and iguanas,I tend to be cautious with supplements and canned products.For someone who has done some research and has experience,we can make informed decisions,this person,I expect is fresh on the field and needs basic info,I feel telling them some canned foods are ok,only encourages one to go to a local pet store and buy some friskies and tortoise diet.If I do suggest something,I give brands,reasons why,and my experience with the product's dosages.It is important not only to lead the new in the right direction,but give them all or nothing when it comes to things that can cost the life or health of the reptile.


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## mbreptiles (Jan 14, 2008)

*...*

Yes, I agree. I sometimes make the mistake of not giving the exact brands to use that I have tested and had good results. I believe Innova is pretty good though, but would love your opinion on it. Here is a link if you wouldn't mind checking it out since you have done some research on it as well it seems. http://www.innovapet.com/products/default.asp?panel=ga&id=1606


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## mbreptiles (Jan 14, 2008)

BTW have you had any success with the Parsons Chameleons? I had a few back in mid 90's when I was big into chameleons.


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## arachnophoria (Jan 14, 2008)

Looks ok to me,but no dog or cat food has the right amount of vitamins and minerals for reptiles.To feed any such food daily,long-term would result in problems for small to medium reptiles.This stuff is designed for a high metabolism mammal,reptile metabolism differs,and unlike mammalas,reptiles don't just harmlessly excrete excess nutrients,it attacks the kidneys and liver.This brand seems as good or close to the Hills I mentioned,but I would move to the geriatric dog formula for omnivores animals.It has more fiber and less protein.I would still be feeding my omnivores leafy greens,alfalfa,and insect protein regularly and not use any supplements the weeks I used dog food,since it contains D3,calcium,and lots of other stuff already.Keep in mind,chameleons are among the most sensitive reptiles,so I am not attacking any of your ideas or methods,I just play safe...it's like a hair cut,you can always take more off,but you can't put it back on...supplements can always be added,the damage done from overuse is more likely than underdoing it,exspecially when feeding dog food and canned diets.


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## arachnophoria (Jan 14, 2008)

To answer your question about my parsonii,I just sold them a few months ago.I worked with melleri before them and I did succeed in breeding F2 babies from them(the first I know of anywhere),but after that,I just got too overworked and tired of the constant tweaking that goes with careing for tons of reptiles.I had 19 chameleons at one time!!! I am just a one man hobbiest,I stick with my inverts now and have few herps left,but no chameleons.My parsonii were growing,healthy and had been with me for a year.I employed ultrasonic humidifiers on timers as a hydration alternative.I did/do have a mist system,but this allowed the cage to dry out in between better and really worked great.I put a A TON of cash into vet care for my animals,until I learned to become my own vet.I got a job at a clinic,studied up on meds and bought some books on retptile medicine and really jumped in.I still just go to my vet and ask for what I need or tell them how to amputate a gangreneous tail.I just couldn't keep up anymore and I am not a good person for dealing with unexplained failures...lots of that happens with a large chameleon collection.I miss acclimating the WC melleri...there was real pleasure in that.Some of my pix are at www.photobucket.com under extensionofgreen as the album title.Check it out.


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## mbreptiles (Jan 14, 2008)

Yeah, I know about the sometimes unexplainable failures that accur sometimes. We have easily over 1000 reptiles at our facility in the off season. During breeding season who knows... We also have a decent amount down at the store... Thanks for your input!


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## arachnophoria (Jan 14, 2008)

My final straw was when the female melleri that I acclimated from a WC and spent over $700 in vet bills for,went from a shriveled,brown,beast,to a healthy,emerald green,affectionate lady,only to die in her 3rd year ith me of no known cause,with a belly full of fertile eggs.I cursed the heavens and decided I didn't like doing something I felt like the powers that be wouldn't let me win at.I really was a bit over the bend then with everything that was going on with my pets and in my life..I felt ''why me'' almost daily.I kept that girl in my personal shower for 6 months and used my roomates.I medicated her for 3 months daily with three medications,while working 2-3 jobs,and hand fed her.I have pictures of when a vet's prescription of Baytril nearly killed her and I brought her back from the brink and demanded Fortaz instead.Baytril is bad for adult melleri for unkown reasons,but I have my theories.Few vets entertain the notion,b/c it so widley used with success,but I know of other melleri that were lost to Baytril.She was like a green,scaley dog.Melleri are the most intelligent chameleon by far,if not the smartest reptile.It makes them very suceptible to stress,real or percieved and this is hard to overcome.I love that species more than many of the rare and coveted gems,like parsonii,but it was more than one person could do working out of the home.I am very comfortable with my invertebrates and still continue to learn abut reptiles.Nutrition interest me most,if you noticed and I was really into 100% fresh foods for my chameleon feeders.I spent hours chopping greens and exotic fruits twice a week.I blended dry gut loads and 
alternated supplements...I had nine species of roaches,stick insects,wax worms,crix,and superworms,silkworms and goliath worms to,I even bred most of my own feeders.I was dedicated..lol.I miss the times I had healthy,green giants as companions,but in the world of chameleons,those time were few and far between.I don't miss the medical bills,death,and frustration and I doubt,unless I retire at 40,that I'll keep chameleons again.I also like fish,and natural terrariums,but I just rather focus on one thing and not spread so thin.Invertebrates are very interesting,challengeing,and much more practical for my work and financial climate.I think I'll stick with it for many years.


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