# Lobster Roaches or Dubia Roaches



## Tenevanica (Dec 27, 2015)

My dubia colony has been experiencing significant die-off recently. Not because of anything unusual, but because I am having a very difficult time getting the colony to a suitable breeding temperature in the winter, and the roaches are dying faster than they're breeding. I've been looking at other feeders and I came across lobster roaches. (_Nauphoeta cinerea) _Apparently these are the easiest roaches to culture. I have heard accounts of them breeding under hostile conditions, and they are stupidly cheap. My only concern would be that there have been reports of lobster roach infestations in houses. When people talk about the "12 pest species" lobsters are one of those. They're not nearly as good at this as, let's say _Blatella germanica, _but it is still a concern. Should I ditch dubias and start a colony of lobsters, or should I stay with what I know how to handle?


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## ReignofInvertebrates (Dec 27, 2015)

I have dubias, but lots of people I know prefer lobsters.  As log as you keep the lobsters contained, they shouldn't be a problem.  If you're worried about infestation, maybe try some other fast smaller species so that you're comfortable with having them.  I might switch one day, because as you said they are extremely cheap and easy to care for.


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## MWAInverts (Dec 27, 2015)

I always like to point out that when given that when given the chance and conditions, almost any feeder can become a household pest. Some more likely than others, but still all very possible, best method to avoid such incidents is prevention from the get go. 

Most important problem to remember with lobsters is that they climb which can make them problematic, so avoid then in my opinion. Dubia can be harder to establish due to their large size and slower breeding habits so it really takes some patience. 

Have you even thought about using Shelfordella lateralis? They're literally the best feeder you can use at the moment. They're nutritious, don't climbs or burrow. Unless you live in a house with a subtropical climate and food all over, they'll die in about 2-3 days after running off too!


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## SC Tarantulas (Dec 27, 2015)

If your winter temps are actually killing your dubia I would think you will run into similar issues with other species. Perhaps installing a heat mat and thermostat would fix this issue.
B. lateralis in my experience are the easiest species to breed and one of the best feeder options out there. They are a very fast growing, hardy species, that reproduce extremely fast, and will not infest your house if they escape. (in most regions of the US)
The only knock on them is that they are not as large as B. dubia for instance and some feel they are to small of a prey item for very large specimens.
I personally have colonies of both.

Reactions: Like 1


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## MWAInverts (Dec 27, 2015)

Good post Brad, I agree a lot of people are hesitant to try lats due to their smaller size. The sizing issue with lats, however, is easily settled by their sheer prolific nature and price point.


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## Tenevanica (Dec 27, 2015)

Brad1980 said:


> If your winter temps are actually killing your dubia I would think you will run into similar issues with other species. Perhaps installing a heat mat and thermostat would fix this issue.
> B. lateralis in my experience are the easiest species to breed and one of the best feeder options out there. They are a very fast growing, hardy species, that reproduce extremely fast, and will not infest your house if they escape. (in most regions of the US)
> The only knock on them is that they are not as large as B. dubia for instance and some feel they are to small of a prey item for very large specimens.
> I personally have colonies of both.


It's not that the temperature is directly killing the roaches, its that they're not breeding fast enough to get a net growth in the colony. The lobsters are supposed to breed even at cold temperatures. (I can barely get the inside of the colony above 70 degrees. The lobsters are supposed to breed at this temp.) Turkestans require very hot temperatures to breed. Some people say that they will only breed if it is above 90 degrees. Using these would be counter-intuitive.


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## MWAInverts (Dec 27, 2015)

I breed and sell lats for a living, the temperature issue you hear is terribly false. Lats stop growing and reproducing at 50F, slow down reproduction at 55-60F and are extremely prolific at 80F+. At 70F , you're not gong to have any problems. The food you feed (veggies etc) will boost enclosure humidity to above 65% and that's what the ooths will need for hatching. The temperatures take care of the rest. 

I'm not saying at 70F it's going to be a piece of cake to establish them, but in larger numbers, you'll be up and running in about 2 month.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## SC Tarantulas (Dec 27, 2015)

Tenevanica said:


> It's not that the temperature is directly killing the roaches, its that they're not breeding fast enough to get a net growth in the colony. The lobsters are supposed to breed even at cold temperatures. (I can barely get the inside of the colony above 70 degrees. The lobsters are supposed to breed at this temp.) Turkestans require very hot temperatures to breed. Some people say that they will only breed if it is above 90 degrees. Using these would be counter-intuitive.


Those temps for the B. lateralis are completely incorrect. My colonies breed like rabbits at room temp. (mid 70's)
My dubia colonies breed at this temp as well just not as productive as they would be in the mid 80's.
It was simply a suggestion. Good luck


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## MWAInverts (Dec 27, 2015)

To add to that, how many dubia are you starting out with? In "cooler" temperatures, it's always a good idea to start with at least double the suggested amount. Also, pull a lot of your males out, they'll become a waste of resources.


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## Tenevanica (Dec 27, 2015)

MWAInverts said:


> To add to that, how many dubia are you starting out with? In "cooler" temperatures, it's always a good idea to start with at least double the suggested amount. Also, pull a lot of your males out, they'll become a waste of resources.


I've had the colony for about a year now. I started with 50 or so mixed individuals and have a few hundred now. The colony die off was a problem I faced last year, but my colony pulled through. Dubias have a long lifespan so it's not that big of a deal, but I'm not a big fan of the population decrease.


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## Tenevanica (Dec 27, 2015)

Brad1980 said:


> Those temps for the B. lateralis are completely incorrect. My colonies breed like rabbits at room temp. (mid 70's)
> My dubia colonies breed at this temp as well just not as productive as they would be in the mid 80's.
> It was simply a suggestion. Good luck


Interesting. I believe that turkestans are non climbing as well. I still think I'd rather try the lobsters, however because turkestans are a oviparous species and that means I'd have to care for roaches AND eggs, which is rather not do.


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## MWAInverts (Dec 27, 2015)

Yes they are non climbers and males only flutter and not fly. The ooths hatch themselves when the humidity is within the 65% which is pretty standard. You only need to pull eggs if you want to have newly hatched pinheads to use. Keep in mind that they're also non burrowing.

Did you see my earlier post above? It'll let you know exactly why lobsters aren't as popular anymore.


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## Tenevanica (Dec 27, 2015)

MWAInverts said:


> Yes they are non climbers and males only flutter and not fly. The ooths hatch themselves when the humidity is within the 65% which is pretty standard. You only need to pull eggs if you want to have newly hatched pinheads to use. Keep in mind that they're also non burrowing.


The humidity is more of a problem here. The room humidity is usually around 20%, and I've had humidity troubles (particularly with hissers) before. I wouldn't add a substrate unless they absolutely needed it anyway.


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## MWAInverts (Dec 27, 2015)

What source of moisture do you provide? My dedicated roach room runs at about 30% but my breeding tanks are about 70% from the fruit and veggies I feed plus water gel. No substrate is needed. All they have are vertically stacked egg flats.

It seems your mind is made up, I'd say try out the lobsters  Just make sure the kid is sealed and a bug barrier is provided.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kumo Punch (Jan 24, 2016)

Keep us updated on your experience with lobsters. I've kept them on a couple of occasions but have found some escapees that made me get rid of them. They are the perfect sized roach to feed slings to adults though.


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## Walter1 (Jan 24, 2016)

I was not prepared for my success with lobsters. They proliferated and escaped and took over other roach colonies I had. Alos found them here and yonder. They're bullet proof, but must be in a sealed container with fine screen mesh. think Hannibal Lector..


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## Tenevanica (Jan 24, 2016)

Walter1 said:


> I was not prepared for my success with lobsters. They proliferated and escaped and took over other roach colonies I had. Alos found them here and yonder. They're bullet proof, but must be in a sealed container with fine screen mesh. think Hannibal Lector..


Yeah, I've got my colony locked up tight. 4 inch barrier of Vaseline, and 1/16th inch aluminum micro screen held to the bin by several layers of duct tape. If they escape from that, I think I will give up on rearing animals.

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## Tenevanica (Jan 24, 2016)

Kumo Punch said:


> Keep us updated on your experience with lobsters. I've kept them on a couple of occasions but have found some escapees that made me get rid of them. They are the perfect sized roach to feed slings to adults though.


That's another reason why I got them. The newborn nymphs are small enough to feed baby mantids and small spiderlings, but the adults are big enough for large T's


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## Travis K (Jan 27, 2016)

Tenevanica said:


> Interesting. I believe that turkestans are non climbing as well. I still think I'd rather try the lobsters, however because turkestans are a oviparous species and that means I'd have to care for roaches AND eggs, which is rather not do.


Lobster's are very good at getting out and then getting where you don't want them.  I know this from personal experience.


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## pannaking22 (Jan 28, 2016)

I've heard that lobster roaches smell a bit more than other roaches. Does anyone have experience with this, or was it just a story I heard without much substance?


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## Tenevanica (Feb 1, 2016)

pannaking22 said:


> I've heard that lobster roaches smell a bit more than other roaches. Does anyone have experience with this, or was it just a story I heard without much substance?


They do have a slight smell to them. It's not as bad as crickets though.


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## pannaking22 (Feb 1, 2016)

Tenevanica said:


> They do have a slight smell to them. It's not as bad as crickets though.


Good to know! And I can't imagine anything smells as bad as crickets lol


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## Travis K (Feb 3, 2016)

pannaking22 said:


> I've heard that lobster roaches smell a bit more than other roaches. Does anyone have experience with this, or was it just a story I heard without much substance?


IME, they have a faint smell when harassed and picked up, but other than that they weren't bad with smell.  It's that they found their way into other roach cultures and caused problems for them that I HATE them.


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## Walter1 (Feb 3, 2016)

Hissers stink. Lobsters cleaner even if unwanted!


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## Walter1 (Feb 3, 2016)

I do not like them either. For food, my vote is for dubias.


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## Tenevanica (Feb 3, 2016)

Walter1 said:


> I do not like them either. For food, my vote is for dubias.


I prefer lobsters. They are easier, faster breeders, and don't smell nearly as bad.



Walter1 said:


> Hissers stink. Lobsters cleaner even if unwanted!


I know you don't typically clean roach bins, but I suggest you clean out your hisser bin. Hissers should not stink, and it's likely their is bacteria building up in the bin.


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## pannaking22 (Feb 4, 2016)

Tenevanica said:


> I prefer lobsters. They are easier, faster breeders, and don't smell nearly as bad.


I will say, I've noticed a definite odor starting to come out of my dubia bin. Planning on giving it a good cleaning this weekend and we'll see what happens from there. Might just pick up some lobsters since I don't have a ton of large spiders/scorpions that need something dubia sized. If nothing else a couple extra lobster roaches should cover for a dubia.


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## Jacob Ma (Feb 4, 2016)

You'll need to be a bit careful with lobster roaches, because they can turn parthenogenetic (breed with only females) if they need to apparently.  For me, when they have escaped they ate through some cardboard and found a way into my printer to get access to its heat!  I'd make sure they'd have a strong barrier (possibly adding insect glue past the vaseline) to prevent escaping.  Lobster roaches are a heck of an infestor even in their enclosures, with the adults giving birth to about 20 babies every month or so.  They are very clean animals, given a drier substrate, droppings and smells won't be a problem.  They tend to eat all of their food when in sizeable numbers, and will not hesitate to eat their own young if hungry or swarm the weaker/molted adults.


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## pannaking22 (Feb 5, 2016)

I hadn't heard of pathenogenisis in that species before so that's quite interesting! Besides the normal vaseline layer, I was going to just keep them in a tightly sealed enclosure and maybe put some tape around the top to really discourage escapees.


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## Tenevanica (Feb 6, 2016)

Jacob Ma said:


> You'll need to be a bit careful with lobster roaches, because they can turn parthenogenetic (breed with only females) if they need to apparently.  For me, when they have escaped they ate through some cardboard and found a way into my printer to get access to its heat!  I'd make sure they'd have a strong barrier (possibly adding insect glue past the vaseline) to prevent escaping.  Lobster roaches are a heck of an infestor even in their enclosures, with the adults giving birth to about 20 babies every month or so.  They are very clean animals, given a drier substrate, droppings and smells won't be a problem.  They tend to eat all of their food when in sizeable numbers, and will not hesitate to eat their own young if hungry or swarm the weaker/molted adults.


I've seen people put sticky traps above the vaseline on their bins. This seems like overkill to me, but I might try it. Even the adults can't get more than halfway up the Vaseline.


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## Hisserdude (Feb 6, 2016)

Tenevanica said:


> I've seen people put sticky traps above the vaseline on their bins. This seems like overkill to me, but I might try it. Even the adults can't get more than halfway up the Vaseline.


The smaller the roach, the easier it is to climb over the Vaseline. Adults are heavier and slip on the Vaseline, nymphs however are much less heavy, and can grasp the Vaseline without slipping as much. Think of it like a mountain of snow, if a human tried climbing it they would slip, but something smaller, say a bird, could walk across it. When it comes to Vaseline, its not the adults you have to worry about, its the nymphs.


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## BugladyZ (Feb 18, 2016)

Hello there, I keep lobster roaches, and dubias among others, and it is very true that lobsters are the quickest breeders and require the least amount of work to keep. Though they can climb, this is a simple problem to solve, just keep your roach furniture a couple of inches lower than the top of your enclosure and put an inch or so of petroleum jelly in a ring around the top of your enclosure, you only need to remember to renew it every 4-6 mos and they CANNOT climb out, i leave the lid off when I am feeding, cleaning etc and have never had an issue with it, allthough for some reason the fact that they can climb deters a lot of people. As long as you are careful not to knock over your enclosure and keep out of the reach of pets like cats and dogs as well as kids, you should not have an issue with infestation ever. I use no substrate, only egg cartons stacked across each other like this # in a plastic tub with ventaiation cut into the top and covered with mesh. And I dont mist or water, they just get some form of fresh fruit or veggie every other day and things like fish flakes and crunched up cat/dog food for protien and they do awesome, I started out with 100 and have bred over 1500 in about 14 mos, have sold many starter colonies. Hope that helps!

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## Mossae (Feb 23, 2016)

I prefer lobsters, my lats tend to smell


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## MWAInverts (Feb 23, 2016)

Lats are extreme prolific, they shouldn't have any smells if cleaned monthly on large, fast breeding colonies that are kept dryer .


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## smiittyy (Feb 23, 2016)

With your description of your container it sounds like you shouldn't have a problem if its sealed up tight. Just some info to consider though, i tried keeping S. Lateralis in a plastic container. Precautions i took were 2in of vaseline, than sticky tape, and then another inch of vaseline at the top with another 16inches or so of  plastic container wall below that before the roaches could reach the top. And let me tell you that every single time i opened the lid there was at least one adult sitting at the top past all 16inches of smooth plastic wall and the above mentioned tape and vasaline. If i hadn't had the entire lid duct taped in place from the outside there would have been escapes. Roach colony's create dust, and as soon as there is even a thin coat of dust on the walls of the container the S. lateralis will scurry up the walls like its nobodys business. Dubias are what i would call a roach that cant climb and really the only species out of the three being discussed that should be advertised as such.

Personally i couldn't take the risk, being as i keep nearly 3 grand worth of T's if there was ever to be an outbreak of roaches fumigating wouldn't be an option.

Zach


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## BugladyZ (Mar 14, 2016)

I have not met anyone else who keeps lobster roaches, and the insane amount of precautions people seem to have to take for thiers not to be able to escape makes me think that the roach furniture you have in there is too high and close to the edge of your enclosure or you have a way overcrowded enclosure. I only have about 1" ring of vasoline (maybe even a little less) and I work with the lid off all the time and in three years I have never had any escapees....but I also keep smaller enclosures with only 300est individuals and seperate some out when it looks like there is very many more than that. Maybe if you are having trouble they are just overcrowded


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## BugladyZ (Mar 14, 2016)

Tenevanica said:


> My dubia colony has been experiencing significant die-off recently. Not because of anything unusual, but because I am having a very difficult time getting the colony to a suitable breeding temperature in the winter, and the roaches are dying faster than they're breeding. I've been looking at other feeders and I came across lobster roaches. (_Nauphoeta cinerea) _Apparently these are the easiest roaches to culture. I have heard accounts of them breeding under hostile conditions, and they are stupidly cheap. My only concern would be that there have been reports of lobster roach infestations in houses. When people talk about the "12 pest species" lobsters are one of those. They're not nearly as good at this as, let's say _Blatella germanica, _but it is still a concern. Should I ditch dubias and start a colony of lobsters, or should I stay with what I know how to handle?



I have lobsters and keep them at room temperature about 60 degrees and have no issues, however they do breed faster in warmer temps. For your dubia issue with the temp, here is what I did.(I have dubias, giant cave, giant peppered and my tarantulas in this cabinet) I went to goodwill and got a cheap glass front cabinet, I paid $5, painted it a color I liked and put some under tank heating under each enclosure and now they are fine and I have not had an issue with the temp since then, this is the cheapest and easiest soloution I could come up with, it is a lot easier to keep a cabinet warm than an entire room! I dont even heat the room they are in and there has not been an issue! Hope this helps! Good luck!

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## Tenevanica (Mar 14, 2016)

BugladyZ said:


> I have lobsters and keep them at room temperature about 60 degrees and have no issues, however they do breed faster in warmer temps. For your dubia issue with the temp, here is what I did.(I have dubias, giant cave, giant peppered and my tarantulas in this cabinet) I went to goodwill and got a cheap glass front cabinet, I paid $5, painted it a color I liked and put some under tank heating under each enclosure and now they are fine and I have not had an issue with the temp since then, this is the cheapest and easiest soloution I could come up with, it is a lot easier to keep a cabinet warm than an entire room! I dont even heat the room they are in and there has not been an issue! Hope this helps! Good luck!


I've started using reptile heat cable with my enclosures, and I assuming that will up the production of both feeder and pet roaches. I had an idea for a heated invertebrate cabinet before, but I never went through with it. Thanks for the suggestion!

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## pannaking22 (Mar 15, 2016)

Just got some lobsters a couple weeks ago and good god they eat a lot! They're all bottomless pits lol. But that means cleanup is pretty minimal since they eat everything before it can mold. Can't wait for the females to start reproducing. Does anyone know if there is an issue with eating freshly molted individuals or any sort of wing/antenna nibbling or is that only if they're really hungry?


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## Tenevanica (Mar 16, 2016)

pannaking22 said:


> Just got some lobsters a couple weeks ago and good god they eat a lot! They're all bottomless pits lol. But that means cleanup is pretty minimal since they eat everything before it can mold. Can't wait for the females to start reproducing. Does anyone know if there is an issue with eating freshly molted individuals or any sort of wing/antenna nibbling or is that only if they're really hungry?


If there is any I haven't experienced it. I always keep dog food in with my roaches so they can get much needed protein without taking it from the other roaches. I wouldn't stop giving them protein though, as these roaches are omnivores in the wild, and they've been known to hunt down smaller insects to eat. Just keep protein available!


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## pannaking22 (Mar 16, 2016)

Tenevanica said:


> If there is any I haven't experienced it. I always keep dog food in with my roaches so they can get much needed protein without taking it from the other roaches. I wouldn't stop giving them protein though, as these roaches are omnivores in the wild, and they've been known to hunt down smaller insects to eat. Just keep protein available!


Great, that's easy enough then. I toss in a few pieces of cat food every couple days with big food once or twice a week, so hopefully that keeps them happy. Planning on redoing their setup a little bit too to give them more surface area and more places to hide so overcrowding won't become too big an issue.


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## Walter1 (Mar 16, 2016)

Lobster roaches are also the invasion of the body snatchers. They enter other roach cages and take over if opportunity presents itself.


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## Tenevanica (Mar 16, 2016)

Walter1 said:


> Lobster roaches are also the invasion of the body snatchers. They enter other roach cages and take over if opportunity presents itself.


That's why you never let the opportunity to present itself. I don't see why climbing deters people, especially when it's easily stopped by Vaseline.


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## Walter1 (Mar 16, 2016)

Tenevanica said:


> That's why you never let the opportunity to present itself. I don't see why climbing deters people, especially when it's easily stopped by Vaseline.



Goofs are minimized for sure, but IF they get out, that's what happens.


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## BugladyZ (Mar 17, 2016)

pannaking22 said:


> Just got some lobsters a couple weeks ago and good god they eat a lot! They're all bottomless pits lol. But that means cleanup is pretty minimal since they eat everything before it can mold. Can't wait for the females to start reproducing. Does anyone know if there is an issue with eating freshly molted individuals or any sort of wing/antenna nibbling or is that only if they're really hungry?


The only time there will ever be an issue with them eating babies or freshly molted individuals is if they are not getting enough food, or dont have enough protien in thier diet. If you are dilligent about feeding them reguarly and provide a source of protien reguarly (every 2-3days) then you should never have to worry about it, hope this helps and have a great day!

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## pannaking22 (Mar 18, 2016)

BugladyZ said:


> The only time there will ever be an issue with them eating babies or freshly molted individuals is if they are not getting enough food, or dont have enough protien in thier diet. If you are dilligent about feeding them reguarly and provide a source of protien reguarly (every 2-3days) then you should never have to worry about it, hope this helps and have a great day!


Thank you, that certainly does!


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