# Maryland Snake HELP!!!



## pnshmntMMA (Oct 4, 2011)

I live in Maryland 15 miles inland from the bay, very close to a major resovior. My girlfriend spotted a 3 foot snake in the road 100 yards from my house and when she went back it was gone. Snakes are my favorite animal and I'd love to see then around my yard more. It was brown in color and when I showed her some mugshots online the one she pointed to was the eastern diamondback. Which have been found relatively nearby.  Any idea what it most likely was? And I'd love to lure more snakes to my property and maybe catch one fir a day or two. Any tips? Of course if it is a rattler I won't mess with it.


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## Shrike (Oct 4, 2011)

Given your proximity to a reservoir, my vote would be Nerodia sipedon, or Northern water snake.  




If you were referring to the Eastern diamondback rattlesnake, their documented range does not extend into Maryland.


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## pnshmntMMA (Oct 4, 2011)

Ok thanks! And they better update that list. They find them in Garrett county in the mountains, and last week I was on a call near the resovior and the DNR police said there was an eastern diamondback found last month a few miles west of here. That's bad news...


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## Shrike (Oct 4, 2011)

Deep Creek Lake is a great place to find all kinds of wildlife.  It's just a beautiful place.  If it _was_ a rattlesnake they found, it was probably a timber rattlesnake, Crotalus horridus.  They're native to MD.  An Eastern diamondback would have to be an escaped or released pet.  They're established range is in Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Florida, Georgia, North Carolina and South Carolina. 

I'd put money on your girlfriend seeing a Northern water snake.  They are extremely common and are heavy bodied, impressive looking snakes in their own right.  I'm guessing you won't have to do much to find more snakes in your yard.  A water source and plenty of cover are a good start.


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## pnshmntMMA (Oct 4, 2011)

Shrike said:


> Deep Creek Lake is a great place to find all kinds of wildlife.  It's just a beautiful place.  If it _was_ a rattlesnake they found, it was probably a timber rattlesnake, Crotalus horridus.  They're native to MD.  An Eastern diamondback would have to be an escaped or released pet.  They're established range is in Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Florida, Georgia, North Carolina and South Carolina.
> 
> I'd put money on your girlfriend seeing a Northern water snake.  They are extremely common and are heavy bodied, impressive looking snakes in their own right.  I'm guessing you won't have to do much to find more snakes in your yard.  A water source and plenty of cover are a good start.


ohhhhhhh thats right! i mixed up my rattlesnakes! i forgot all about the timbers. thanks for reminding me! and yea unfortunately the only snakes i see are dead in the road usually. when i find them i always relocate them into the woods. (if theyre alive). thanks again. the resovior we are near is Loch Raven. we have a MAJOR problem with people releasing non native pets into the lake. theyve found caimons and stuff in there over the years. irresponsibility at its finest. thanks again for the information. any tips on how i could maybe catch one? or at least attract them?


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## Shrike (Oct 4, 2011)

A pair of tongs and a hook come in very handy.  There's nothing you can really do to attract them except provide a desirable habitat.  Wherever there is adequate food, water and cover you will likely find snakes.  If I were you I would walk the perimeter of the reservoir and flip over any rocks, logs and cover objects that you find.


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## pitbulllady (Oct 4, 2011)

pnshmntMMA said:


> Ok thanks! And they better update that list. They find them in Garrett county in the mountains, and last week I was on a call near the resovior and the DNR police said there was an eastern diamondback found last month a few miles west of here. That's bad news...


There are no Eastern Diamondbacks in Maryland.  This is pretty far out of their range, and with the exception of the Delmarva Peninsula, there really is no suitable habitat for these snakes.  These are snakes of warm, subtropical maritime forests and sandy glades.  The only venomous species in MD are the Northern Copperhead and the increasingly rare Timber Rattlesnake, which is a very different snake from an EDB.  I am forever in the dark as to why so many people, having "Diamondback Rattlesnake" engraved on their brains, insist that EVERY patterned snake they see, and many UN-patterned ones, have "diamond-shaped" markings and therefore MUST be Diamondbacks!  I live in a state that DOES have EDB's, and I have NEVER seen one in the wild, ever.  They are just that elusive.
My money is on the Northern Water Snake, and if MD DNR "police" are like SC's DNR, I would no more trust their identification of their own mothers than I would trust a politician.  I've seen too many Rat Snakes, Hognoses, Water Snakes, etc. "identified" as some venomous snake or another by our so-called "wildlife experts" who are just as terrified of a snake as the average Urban Legend-believing gullible public.

pitbulllady


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## mike w (Oct 4, 2011)

Shrike said:


> Given your proximity to a reservoir, my vote would be Nerodia sipedon, or Northern water snake.
> 
> View attachment 94183
> 
> ...


I beg to differ! I have come across Eastern Diamondback Rattlesnakes in Western Maryland Gambrill Mountain Region just west of Frederick, MD. Found a nest under a comcast site while servicing some HVAC equipment.


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## Louise E. Rothstein (Oct 4, 2011)

Global warming does shift species.
Their "documented ranges" are out of date because they were all drawn up before global warming.

Not all "new species" reports are accurate,though...Many of these remain totally wrong:
Rumors remain as fallible as they always have been. 

Not all reports,though,are only "a rumor."
Some of them have a foundation in fact.
Since climate changes do prompt many species to move their "documented ranges" will have to be changed.


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## pnshmntMMA (Oct 5, 2011)

Louise E. Rothstein said:


> Global warming does shift species.
> Their "documented ranges" are out of date because they were all drawn up before global warming.
> 
> Not all "new species" reports are accurate,though...Many of these remain totally wrong:
> ...


laughing OUT LOUD at the global warming concept. it isnt real. its called climate change if its anything. can you defend the notion that dinosaurs caused the ice age? negative. global warming is liberal nonsense that was purely made up of coincidental findings, then sewn together to scare everyone. just like this 2012 nonsense.


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## Shrike (Oct 5, 2011)

mike w said:


> I beg to differ! I have come across Eastern Diamondback Rattlesnakes in Western Maryland Gambrill Mountain Region just west of Frederick, MD. Found a nest under a comcast site while servicing some HVAC equipment.


Sorry, I'd rather believe the scientific community.  If Crotalus adamanteus occurred in Maryland, it would be well documented.


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## BQC123 (Oct 5, 2011)

mike w said:


> I beg to differ! I have come across Eastern Diamondback Rattlesnakes in Western Maryland Gambrill Mountain Region just west of Frederick, MD. Found a nest under a comcast site while servicing some HVAC equipment.





Shrike said:


> Sorry, I'd rather believe the scientific community.  If Crotalus adamanteus occurred in Maryland, it would be well documented.


I have to agree with Shrike. Do you have any documentation? Was this sighting of a "nest" of them reported and verified by anyone?
It's kinda like in our home state with the "black panthers", of the feline persuation. I hear reports constantly, and it appears our state is being overrun by them. Not one body, or any decent evidence is ever produced. I have photographic proof, and have reported to the proper authorities, several Blanding's turtle sightings in PA. They were listed as exterpated. We now have several turtles caught and documented as proof. Not saying you didn't see some snakes, just cannot believe it was a species undocumented in the state. If you really believe  so, I would be calling the proper people to confirm the location, and get somebody out there to verify it.

Reactions: Like 1


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## pnshmntMMA (Oct 5, 2011)

Animals travel, and they are not supervised. Just because they haven't been officially documented doesn't mean they arent there. Basically you are saying that all the snakes are accounted for? That's a bold statement. If they are in the surrounding states I will guarantee that they are here unless there is some insurmountable obstacle that hinders them from traveling here. But I agree with you on many levels.


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## pitbulllady (Oct 5, 2011)

BQC123 said:


> I have to agree with Shrike. Do you have any documentation? Was this sighting of a "nest" of them reported and verified by anyone?
> It's kinda like in our home state with the "black panthers", of the feline persuation. I hear reports constantly, and it appears our state is being overrun by them. Not one body, or any decent evidence is ever produced. I have photographic proof, and have reported to the proper authorities, several Blanding's turtle sightings in PA. They were listed as exterpated. We now have several turtles caught and documented as proof. Not saying you didn't see some snakes, just cannot believe it was a species undocumented in the state. If you really believe  so, I would be calling the proper people to confirm the location, and get somebody out there to verify it.


We get the same thing here with reports of "black panthers".  Every video I've seen of a so-called "black panther" in the wild in some place that they're not supposed to be has either shown some amorphous black blob(which some folks have dubbed "blobcats, lol)or a very obvious ordinary domestic tomcat.  Every "Diamondback Rattlesnake" I've been shown found outside of their range has inevitably turned out to be some harmless species of snake, usually a Rat, Corn or Water snake.  I've already mentioned the phenomenon of people describing nearly ALL snake patterns as "diamond-shaped", even if the patternes are ovals, stripes, bands, blotches, etc.  I will stick with scientifically verified ranges, as well, since I've personally seen how easily people tend to misidentify snakes.  Also, EBD's are NOT communal-denning snakes, and do not "nest" during hibernation, so finding a "nest" of EDB's, and outside of their range, no less, would be a virtual impossibility.  However, Timber Rattlesnakes ARE communal denners and seek out the same denning spots every year to hibernate, so if anyone came across a "nest" of Rattlesnakes in the mountains of western MD(totally different from EBD habitat, too), it would certainly be _Crotalus horridus_.

pitbulllady

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pnshmntMMA said:


> Animals travel, and they are not supervised. Just because they haven't been officially documented doesn't mean they arent there. Basically you are saying that all the snakes are accounted for? That's a bold statement. If they are in the surrounding states I will guarantee that they are here unless there is some insurmountable obstacle that hinders them from traveling here. But I agree with you on many levels.


Eastern Diamondbacks AREN'T found in any of MD's surrounding states.  The fartherest north that they range is the southeastern coastal plain of North Carolina, and due to habitat destruction in that region, it's been years since any have actually been verified in NC, so they might have actually become extinct there.  They are a "picky" species when it comes to habitat and do not adapt as well as their Canebrake cousins to changes.  A hilly or mountainous habitat would be as foreign and incompatible with them as the Sahara Desert to a Polar Bear.

Gotta agree with you on the "global warming" thing, though.  People fail to realize that the planet's climate has ALWAYS been changing, at some times much more drastically than it is now.  It is in a constant state of flux.  We are only just now really able to observe and record that change accurately, but it has always been going on.  The whole "global warming" thing is a political story designed to scare people and implement political agendas, such as the whole "python invasion" fairy tale, which relies on the notion(according to USGS "scientists" Reed and Rodda)that in less than one decade, the climate of the US will have warmed so significantly that states as far north as NJ will have basically the same climate that Miami, FL does now, allowing these tropical heat-loving species to survive and breed there.  Their document is the sole basis for the proposal to include all large constrictors in the Lacy Act.  No large snakes, no Gibson guitars...unless said guitars are assembled in India and shipped to the US.  It's all about politics.

pitbulllady

Reactions: Like 1


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## Formerphobe (Oct 6, 2011)

Chupacabra have been sighted in MD, too... and in surrounding states...  just saying.


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## Malhavoc's (Oct 7, 2011)

pitbulllady said:


> We get the same thing here with reports of "black panthers".  Every video I've seen of a so-called "black panther" in the wild in some place that they're not supposed to be has either shown some amorphous black blob(which some folks have dubbed "blobcats, lol)or a very obvious ordinary domestic tomcat.  Every "Diamondback Rattlesnake" I've been shown found outside of their range has inevitably turned out to be some harmless species of snake, usually a Rat, Corn or Water snake.  I've already mentioned the phenomenon of people describing nearly ALL snake patterns as "diamond-shaped", even if the patternes are ovals, stripes, bands, blotches, etc.  I will stick with scientifically verified ranges, as well, since I've personally seen how easily people tend to misidentify snakes.  Also, EBD's are NOT communal-denning snakes, and do not "nest" during hibernation, so finding a "nest" of EDB's, and outside of their range, no less, would be a virtual impossibility.  However, Timber Rattlesnakes ARE communal denners and seek out the same denning spots every year to hibernate, so if anyone came across a "nest" of Rattlesnakes in the mountains of western MD(totally different from EBD habitat, too), it would certainly be _Crotalus horridus_.
> 
> pitbulllady
> 
> ...


I have to go with PBL on this one.
The existance of EDB would be documented more thuroughly in the stats leading to MD, before beign recorded in MD, for them to just 'show up' would be unlikely.


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## mike w (Oct 7, 2011)

I researched it. The only Maryland Eastern Shore viper type species include The Timber Rattler and The Copperhead. This is not to say it wasn't a exotic collector's snake that might of got loose! This happens all over the United States!


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## AzJohn (Oct 7, 2011)

mike w said:


> This is not to say it wasn't a exotic collector's snake that might of got loose! This happens all over the United States!


No it doesn't. I bet maybe 1 or 2 venomous snakes get loose in the US get loose yearly, probably less.


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## mike w (Oct 7, 2011)

That you know of! Do you think every venomous snake that escapes is reported! I watched a Animal Planet program which a venomous reptile unit had to remove a Black Mamba from a gentleman's backyard in Florida! They had no idea how this snake got there! They mentioned that they run into this situation a couple times a year with various venomous snakes. That is just Florida!


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## pitbulllady (Oct 8, 2011)

mike w said:


> That you know of! Do you think every venomous snake that escapes is reported! I watched a Animal Planet program which a venomous reptile unit had to remove a Black Mamba from a gentleman's backyard in Florida! They had no idea how this snake got there! They mentioned that they run into this situation a couple times a year with various venomous snakes. That is just Florida!


Mike, you DO realize that Animal Planet is largely controlled by HSUS, right?  That its programming is geared towards sensationalism, rather than education or facts, and that it's also geared towards spreading the HSUS's agenda?  That many of the incidents portrayed on shows like "Fatal Attractions" are either completely fabricated, or the facts "doctored" in such a way as to support that agenda?  Animal Planet's programming has about as much factual value as the "Weekly World News".  It's just another tool in the AR arsenal against animal owners, especially exotic animal owners.  Animals like snakes, spiders and sharks are portrayed as evil, out-to-get-us monsters, and people who actually keep such animals are portrayed as sociopaths who have no care at all for either the animals or their neighbors, or have you not noticed that trend?  People who breed animals are portrayed as evil slave-mongers, and of course, AR groups like HSUS and ASPCA are portrayed as heroes.  Seriously, you haven't figured that out yet?

Furthermore, using southern FL as an example for what might happen in the rest of the US is pointless.  Southern FL has a very unique situation, with several components coming together to create that situation that simply do not exist elsewhere in the country.  First of all is the nearly-tropical year-round climate, which replicates that of many non-native animals.  Second, is the fact that Miami is one of the largest international ports and is THE largest site of importation of both plant and animal species via both legal and illegal international trade in the country.  There are literally more species being brought into the ports and airports of Miami each day than will enter anyplace else in the continental US in a year.  When you take that into consideration and compare that with the actual verifiable cases of non-native venomous reptiles showing up outside of captivity, even in FL, the latter's numbers are infinitesimally small.  

pitbulllady


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## BQC123 (Nov 2, 2011)

I prefer to go with the most logical explaination, especially when faced with nothing more than a non-professional person's identification. Producing a photo, live, or even dead specimen, would be a step toward proving they are there. I get reports all the time of copperheads and water moccasins all the time. Amazingly, only water snakes or milk snakes have ever been produced.


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## Galapoheros (Nov 2, 2011)

Imo, the "global warming" topic wouldn't be talked about much by gov, true or not, if there wasn't money to be made.  The gov is trying to own the rain now, literally.  The excuse being that it's water that would go to recharge zones, pumped up and treated by gov, a commodity people pay for.  You can't have rain for free!  Not the topic but, it was solved anyway.


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## pitbulllady (Nov 3, 2011)

BQC123 said:


> I prefer to go with the most logical explaination, especially when faced with nothing more than a non-professional person's identification. Producing a photo, live, or even dead specimen, would be a step toward proving they are there. I get reports all the time of copperheads and water moccasins all the time. Amazingly, only water snakes or milk snakes have ever been produced.


It is remarkably easy for reports of exotic or giant or whatever snakes to be circulated, with no basis in reality other than native species.  A friend of mine works for a business on the SC "Grand Strand" area, which includes the popular resort of Myrtle Beach.  This business specializes in removal of "problem" wildlife, mostly reptiles during the warm months.  A few months ago, reports of a "giant white python" were coming in from one of the high-end housing developments, and were immediately picked up by the local and state news agencies, with "experts" weighing in that the "killer giant pythons" were moving up from Florida into SC, complete with all the bovine excrement about "released pets".  So, my buddy and his partner get a call from that housing area, a hysterical person claiming that they had the giant snake in sight, sunning on a rock on the bank of a pond, that it is every bit of 10 feet long, it's white and it's HUGE!  They rush over there, with big snake tongs prepared to take on a large Burm, elbow their way through the throng of people gathered to watch the battle, all claiming this is the biggest snake they've ever seen...only to find...a very ordinary, four-feet-long native Red-Belly Water Snake!  Not white, not even pale, just a run-of-the-mill Red-Belly girl, who now resides in my bedroom.  Everyone who was looking at this snake SWORE it was at least 8 feet long and WHITE, clearly a python or anaconda or some kind.  The media tells us that we are overrun with exotic and dangerous snakes, so people are seeing them everywhere, only what they are seeing is ordinary native snakes.

pitbulllady


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## Tim Benzedrine (Nov 4, 2011)

pitbulllady said:


> Mike, you DO realize that Animal Planet is largely controlled by HSUS, right?  That its programming is geared towards sensationalism, rather than education or facts, and that it's also geared towards spreading the HSUS's agenda?


I find that very believable. But have the ARAs had their fingers in the pie from the beginning? I remember when AP used to be a very educational channel, chock full of actual documentaries, not a line-up of "OMG! The top ten most extreme  <fill in the blank>s in the world" type shows. I seldom bother to tune in anymore, it used to be a viewing staple for me.


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## Shrike (Nov 4, 2011)

Tim Benzedrine said:


> I find that very believable. But have the ARAs had their fingers in the pie from the beginning? I remember when AP used to be a very educational channel, chock full of actual documentaries, not a line-up of "OMG! The top ten most extreme  <fill in the blank>s in the world" type shows. I seldom bother to tune in anymore, it used to be a viewing staple for me.


Agreed.  Last night I tuned in to "Rattlesnake Republic" out of curiosity.  This isn't a nature documentary about rattlesnakes, but a show about removing dozens of specimens from the wild for money.  "When I look at a rattlesnake I see a $20 dollar bill."  How many snakes need to be harvested in order to earn a living?  You do the math.  Essentially, Animal Planet is documenting and even glamorizing the exploitation of a species.  My opinion of the network has hit a new low.


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## pitbulllady (Nov 4, 2011)

Shrike said:


> Agreed.  Last night I tuned in to "Rattlesnake Republic" out of curiosity.  This isn't a nature documentary about rattlesnakes, but a show about removing dozens of specimens from the wild for money.  "When I look at a rattlesnake I see a $20 dollar bill."  How many snakes need to be harvested in order to earn a living?  You do the math.  Essentially, Animal Planet is documenting and even glamorizing the exploitation of a species.  My opinion of the network has hit a new low.


Animal Planet underwent new programming back in 2008, after its incoming director decided that the current programming line-up, which focused on Attenborough-style nature documentaries and informational shows for the most part, was not "edgy" enough to keep viewers, and would not be able to compete with the fad of reality programs on network tv.  So, the move was made towards the sensationalistic programming that we see today.  Many of the programs are actually produced by HSUS, or at least utilize HSUS and/or PETA as "consultants".  Both AR groups own considerable stock in Animal Planet.  The programming is intended to use fear to drive their agenda home to Americans by portraying animals like reptiles, spiders, sharks, and large mammalian carnivores as evil incarnate, out-to-get-us monsters, and the people who actually keep these demonic beasts as Public Enemy No. 1.  Ditto for anyone who actually owns multiple animals of ANY species, or breeds animals of any species.  If you own more than one or two animals, you're a "hoarder".  If you breed animals or Heaven forbid-SELL animals, you're a "puppy mill".  If you keep any animals that are not cute little fluffy foo-foo dogs, house cats, bunny rabbits or other small furry traditional pets, or goldfish, you're an animal abuser who is also a sociopath/psychopath, not only for your cruelty in keeping such animals from enjoying their wonderful free lives in the wild, but for putting everyone else in mortal danger just so you can look "tough" by having a "pit bull" or a python or a bobcat or flaunt your financial success in the face of those less fortunate than you by having a $1,500.00 parrot or saltwater aquarium.  THAT is the message that Animal Planet is preaching, to a very receptive congregation, as Wayne and Ingrid gleefully manipulate the puppet strings from above.

pitbulllady


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## The Snark (Nov 5, 2011)

*Observation*

It seems to me that boards like this could serve some very useful purposes. What is obviously needed is factual unbiased public information. Methodology on how to properly identify animals without jumping to conclusions, responsible pet ownership and the like.

As for bashing Animal Planet and similar, those media do have a place and purpose. However, they have a problem in that their audience demands sensationalist crud.

The big bottom line here is getting people to get real. Yes, there are wild animals out there, though fewer every year, and they need protection. Yes, there are morons out there displacing animals irresponsibly and they need educating. Yes, there are sensationalist media BS suckers by the millions who aren't happy unless they get their dose of flash and crash entertainment. What all this needs is the voices of reason. Experts giving the real facts in calm rational ways to help the hypnotized masses into a little understanding of our amazing world and the cohabitants in it.

PBL, you have very valid points regarding the pandering sensationalist media. However, as but one example, Steve Irwin's docu-dramas were fabricated. But he was dedicated to preservation and protection of wild animals and helped educate a lot of people. You are a voice of reason with a lot of valuable information. Help provide us with pointers on how we can be better world citizens living in harmony with these amazing critters.

And for everyone, please keep in mind, the natural world and it's animals need our help. Identify properly, disseminate useful factual information and always keep in mind the planet isn't mankind's playground. Other creatures live here and have a right to do so unmolested. Observation instead of killing, relocation instead of imprisonment. Understanding and appreciating instead of ignorance and savagery.


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