# X breeding centipedes



## super-pede (Jun 28, 2010)

I would just like to know why people think it is so terrible to cross breed T's yet It is just fine to X breed centipedes,millipedes,scorpions and true spiders?If it takes the value down on T's and makes them something lower than standard,why shouldn't it be the same for others?

Heres an example:If I have 1 female Scolopendra heros heros and 1 male Scolopendra castencieps and I decide to breed them so I can get lot's of p'lings with the heros heros banding and sell them for half the price as a pure heros heros, would that not make heros heros less valuable? End of rant.

and before you ask yes this is in response to gala's thread and no I have nothing against you gala.I did not relise that you were cross breeding the two species,I thought that they were both castencieps.


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## Spidercrazy (Jun 28, 2010)

and here we go  -sits back in a lawn chair and gets the popcorn ready.-

a hint on this is because they believe muddying the genes by Xbreeding  and theres more too it but im not going to cause im not choosing sides.


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## super-pede (Jun 28, 2010)

And no personal attacks on anyone in this thread please.


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## Endagr8 (Jun 28, 2010)

super-pede said:


> I would just like to know why people think it is so terrible to cross breed T's yet It is just fine to X breed centipedes,millipedes,scorpions and true spiders?If it takes the value down on T's and makes them something lower than standard,why shouldn't it be the same for others?


Hybridization is unacceptable for any captive exotic animals, IMO.

I also disagree with breeding two of the same species from different localities.


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## Galapoheros (Jun 28, 2010)

I can respect endagr8's view.  It's practically impossible to know where all WC inverts come from that are put together, but I understand the view and trying keep it natural like that the best you can.  As far as this exp goes, defining species seems to hit a gray area the closer you get to animals that are so closely related that they might be on their way to being different species(speciation), or maybe not, it's beyond me.  As far as I've read, many formally trained scientists don't think arizonensis, heros heros and castaneiceps are different species, but only different colors because they are morphologically identical according to R. Shelly.  Even defining them as different subspecies isn't on the table for some scientists.  So I'm experimenting with breeding them, basically to show that it might be possible, it might answer some questions for some scientists, or bring up new ones.  I know of at least one scientist that is interested in seeing how it goes.  I don't know how it might help but it's interesting to me regardless.  I never planned on breeding diff colors for the purpose of selling them or letting them go.  But if some people want one out of interest, no big deal to me.  If all the color forms are the same species, it makes sense they are different colors for a reason, that's my only issue with doing it on a regular bases for selling, and breeding them isn't easy or popular, esp. compared to Ts.  I noticed with the castaneiceps and heros heros crosses that there is a range of color mixing so I'm guessing the genes are there that favors either the heros heros color form and the castaneiceps color form, for whatever color suits a specific environment over time.  I can sometimes see banding on the local castaneiceps, the type that the banded heros heros has.  I have a locally caught castaneiceps that is green but has a slightly darker area on the tergites like on the banded heros heros, the pattern of the darker area is the same.  Maybe I'm looking too hard at that green one but I really feel like I see a very subtle banded heros heros pattern.  I may take a pic of that one and post it to see what people think of that one.


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## Draiman (Jun 28, 2010)

Endagr8 said:


> I also disagree with breeding two of the same species from different localities.


Why? :?                     -minimum character limit


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## super-pede (Jun 28, 2010)

Endagr8 said:


> I also disagree with breeding two of the same species from different localities.


What about same sp.color morphs?I really don't see a problem when breeding two same color morphs if they are from different areas.if they are different color morphs then I have a problem.


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## Endagr8 (Jun 28, 2010)

Draiman said:


> Why? :?                     -minimum character limit


For example, many species of the genus _Poecilotheria_ have different appearances associated with different areas. There's a "dark form" of _P. striata_, _P. ornata_, _P. formosa_, _P. subfusca_, and _P. metallica_. There's also a "light form" of _P. formosa_. In today's hobby, however, _P. metallica_ and _P. subfusca_ are the only ones sold in more than one color phase. I believe the variety may have been "bred out" by those that helped to establish these species in our hobby. 


super-pede said:


> What about same sp.color morphs?I really don't see a problem when breeding two same color morphs if they are from different areas.if they are different color morphs then I have a problem.


Color morphs of the same species are frequently locality related. Breed them, and prepare to lessen, completely alter, or altogether mute one of the morphs. It's fun as an experiment, but it has the capability to ruin the "pure" color morphs of the hobby.


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## Draiman (Jun 28, 2010)

Endagr8 said:


> For example, many species of the genus _Poecilotheria_ have different appearances associated with different areas. There's a "dark form" of _P. striata_, _P. ornata_, _P. formosa_, _P. subfusca_, and _P. metallica_. There's also a "light form" of _P. formosa_. In today's hobby, however, _P. metallica_ and _P. subfusca_ are the only ones sold in more than one color phase. I believe the variety may have been "bred out" by those that helped to establish these species in our hobby.


If those "color forms" are taxonomically and morphologically within the same species, then what is the problem?


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## Crysta (Jun 28, 2010)

leopard geckos. lol

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Mister Internet (Jun 28, 2010)

Yeah, the "heros" species are really all basically color variants within a same species... at least according to all published works on them recently.  "heros castinieceps" and "heros heros" intergrades appear in nature, so I don't have a problem with them in captivity.  I personally caught such an intergrade in OK, it had a red head and a blue-ish tail... I've never heard of a B. vagans/smithi intergrade occuring naturally, even though such might be possible.


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## Endagr8 (Jun 28, 2010)

Draiman said:


> If those "color forms" are taxonomically and morphologically within the same species, then what is the problem?


The problem is that some of the color forms that may have once existed in the hobby do not anymore, perhaps on account of breeding them to their counterparts from different areas. We can promote the species by doing this, but often at the expense of the color forms.


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## What (Jun 30, 2010)

Endagr8 said:


> Color morphs of the same species are frequently locality related. Breed them, and prepare to lessen, completely alter, or altogether mute one of the morphs. It's fun as an experiment, but it has the capability to ruin the "pure" color morphs of the hobby.


So you would be opposed to someone breeding a "toxic yellow" S. polymorpha and a "blue" S. polymorpha with eachother? I can go to one side of a road and find primarily yellow pedes...and the other and find blue... these naturally interbreed but are fairly stable color morphs on their own(ime)... What is wrong with breeding them?


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## Endagr8 (Jun 30, 2010)

What said:


> So you would be opposed to someone breeding a "toxic yellow" S. polymorpha and a "blue" S. polymorpha with eachother? I can go to one side of a road and find primarily yellow pedes...and the other and find blue... these naturally interbreed but are fairly stable color morphs on their own(ime)... What is wrong with breeding them?


Then I wouldn't say that either of those variants are locality related if you can find them on opposite sides of the road, so breed them as you please. Or you may just be lucky enough to live in a region where you can find both.


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## What (Jun 30, 2010)

Endagr8 said:


> Then I wouldn't say that either of those variants are locality related if you can find them on opposite sides of the road, so breed them as you please. Or you may just be lucky enough to live in a region where you can find both.


So you have no inherent problem with breeding two distinct color forms together...Color forms that have naturally overlapping ranges... Hmm...dont all the Sc. heros subspecies have overlapping ranges?(arizonensis w/ heros heros, and that with castanieceps?)


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## Endagr8 (Jun 30, 2010)

What said:


> So you have no inherent problem with breeding two distinct color forms together...Color forms that have naturally overlapping ranges... Hmm...dont all the Sc. heros subspecies have overlapping ranges?(arizonensis w/ heros heros, and that with castanieceps?)


That's slightly more acceptable, but I prefer that breeding different color variants should be left to nature. Look at the dart frog hobby, for example, where one species has many, many morphs, however, enthusiasts frown upon breeding, or even housing different morphs together, for their potential of reproduction, which would effectively taint the bloodlines of either of the purer counterparts.


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## zonbonzovi (Jun 30, 2010)

(Chuckle).

This is all very "cart before the horse", IME.  Let's see some actual breeding by more U.S. members(myself included) before getting all up in arms over crossing color morphs.  Oh, and if anyone has some S. polymorpha that they'd like to trade away, I'd like to get started(any color morph will do


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## Endagr8 (Jun 30, 2010)

zonbonzovi said:


> (Chuckle).
> 
> This is all very "cart before the horse", IME.  Let's see some actual breeding by more U.S. members(myself included) before getting all up in arms over crossing color morphs.  Oh, and if anyone has some S. polymorpha that they'd like to trade away, I'd like to get started(any color morph will do


It is, but I'd hate to say "I told you so" in the future when certain species or color morphs may be scarcer in the wild.


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## Galapoheros (Jul 1, 2010)

Oh man, they look really weird!, .....nooooot, they're still round and yellow


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## Galapoheros (Jul 2, 2010)

Hey, got nymphs!  

edit:   oops, wrong thread, oh well..., got nymphs anyway.


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## Crysta (Jul 2, 2010)

omg luckyyy! congrats!!!!!


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## zonbonzovi (Jul 2, 2010)

Galapoheros said:


> Hey, got nymphs!
> 
> edit:   oops, wrong thread, oh well..., got nymphs anyway.


from the banded heros/castaneiceps?  can't wait to see what they look like as they color up:drool:


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## Galapoheros (Jul 2, 2010)

Si, and a castaneiceps/arizonensis pede is on eggs now, that might satisfy some curiosities if they turn to pedes.  Codewistler(?) had some that mated, where'd he go?


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## cacoseraph (Jul 4, 2010)

i don't know of any true cross breeding of centipedes going on right now, nor have i ever read about any

i know there is at least one, maybe two or three cross bred scorpions on the market, but definitely not common at all

tarantulas there are a few, true spiders not heard of any for sure successes, know of a few attempts.

so really, it is not that common at all in all the major bug hobbies that i am familiar with

also, i would be VERY surprised if you could cross any USA species of Scolopendra together. maybe in all of Scolpendromorpha you could find some species in other parts of the world that can cross... and maybe there are molecular USA species (i.e. polymorpha might be shattered to 20 species based on molecular analysis) some of which intergrade like naught little bunnies*

but aside from that, i just don't think it is even possible to cross breed any of the morphological species we have in the USA today.  maybe some more subtle island morpho species, cuz i have no doubt there is a wide range in the actual speciation of all the various described species of today.





*for the record, i think it is HIGHLY likely that everywhere, USA included, is chock full of cryptic/molecular species of Scolopendromorpha.  it seems the general trend is the lower the dispersal rate of genetic material per generation the higher the likelihood of increased speciation of some type over long periods of time.  specific modifiers seem to apply, such as increased physical barriers to the spread of genetic material.  so, touching back, i can EASILY see pocket molecular/cryptic species that could still mate with their like, direct sister molecular/cryptic species.


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## Greg Pelka (Jul 9, 2010)

Hey!
You're misunderstanding one thing.
You can try to breed whatever you want inside specie.
Offspring shouldn't be release to the nature (in decades it could possibly ruin the ecosystem), but can have new/fresh feature, as a new colorporph, etc. What is very important - you have to add this information to every sold specimen that it's x-breed.

You can't/shouldn't try to breed different species. For 99% they'll attack each other. If won't possibly offspring will be weak and sterile.

Few years ago I've tryed to x-breed two morphs of E. trigonopodus, but only because I was curious if they're really this same specie  No offspring, but they're the same spece

Cheers,
Greg


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