# Chilean rose- partial death curl??.... :( whats going on?



## artisticspider (May 28, 2009)

It's been a week and my tarantula is in a partial death curl....

Her back legs are curled up under her body, but her front legs are moving about and extended- almost like she's paralyzed from the waist down.

She just had crickets the week before and there is a water bowl available to her. 


As of now, I've been spritzing the tank with water and placed her on a damp cloth (in case it has anything to do with dehydration) 

I dont know what else to do. I've never seen her do this and it's been a week now. I've had her for 7 years- not sure how old she was when I got her, but she was an adult.


Does anybody have any suggestions as to what could be causing this or what I can do for her???


Thanks
~a very concerned parent....


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## Kris-wIth-a-K (May 28, 2009)

Pictures would tell a lot more than explaining it.  "Spritzing" the tank down is probably a bad idea since Rosies like it dry.


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## artisticspider (May 28, 2009)

I have posted pics- As you can see, her front legs are well extended and she also does move around a bit but she's basically pulling herself. When I watch her, she can move the joints attached to the carapace of the stiff curled legs- but only slightly. Her spinnerets aren't moving either......


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## Moltar (May 28, 2009)

Well she does look like she's in some sort of trouble, be it dehydration or otherwise. I'd get her in an ICU immediately, forget the half-steps of a damp towel and spritzing, they're not helping.

Ok, so what is that she's sitting on, pine shavings? Get rid of that. When (if) she recovers you want to put her on peat or coco fiber. No tarantula anywhere lives on shredded wood. FYI if that IS pine you should know that pine sap is downright toxic to most invertebrates. If that's new then you have your cause.

Does she have a water dish?


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## artisticspider (May 28, 2009)

She is in an ICU now and will be checking up on her. I will change out the substrate while she's in ICU. I dont believe its the substrate though, it not new, but I cant confirm if its pine or not- I dont have the packaging anymore.

Yes, water is readily available- which is why I have no idea what could cause my T to get into this state.


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## lithiumflower9 (May 28, 2009)

You'd probably smell it if it was pine if you get it close to your face.  I hope she pulls through for you.


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## Moltar (May 28, 2009)

Well I hope she makes it. Two more things:

Do you know how to recognize a mature male? It's possible that she is actually a he and nearing the end of his days.

Although female G rosea live very long lives, it may just be an old age thing. If she was a WC adult when you bought her she was likely at least ten years old, possibly much, much more at the time. For all we know she's older than you or me and just dying naturally from old age.

When was the last time she molted?


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## artisticspider (May 28, 2009)

I picked up some and it doesn't smell like a x-mas tree. I'll still change it out though and keep with solely peat instead.  Thanks for your concern lithiumflower


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## artisticspider (May 28, 2009)

She is in fact female and I've personally had her 7 years and know that she was an adult when I got her- infact she was just about finished regrowing a leg.

Last time she molted was a long time ago- maybe 2 years. Thats why I thought at first she was starting to molt because she went in a spot where she normally molts and was stayed there for a couple days. Thats when I carefully looked at her and found her legs in that position.

Thanks for your help on this etown!


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## xhexdx (May 28, 2009)

I've never seen this issue before but agree with Ethan that it might just be an old age thing.  The ICU is still a good idea, though.  I hope she pulls through for you.

--Joe


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## seanbond (May 28, 2009)

hope she pulls thru for ya, might be nearing the end.


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## Ms.X (May 28, 2009)

She has some serious peanut butt going on.  You said that she has water "available", but have you actually observed her drinking?  In addition to ICU, you may want to try using a dropper, and putting drops on the top of her chelicerae (the water will run down and pool around her mouth area).


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## artisticspider (May 28, 2009)

yes, she does go to her dish- she was at her dish drinking just a week before, while she had her crickets in there


I will try the dropper while she's in ICU. Should I do that once a day, you think?


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## Ms.X (May 28, 2009)

What I meant was, has she dragged herself over to her dish during the week that she has been like this?  A few drops a couple of times a day should be fine, but if she seems very receptive, continue to offer more.


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## artisticspider (May 28, 2009)

Oh, no she didn't, she kind of stayed in one area, and I eventually moved her to her dish to coax her to drink (i didn't think she could get there herself in her condition) if that was the problem and I still didn't see her try to drink then. 

So I posted my problem to see what else I could do....


I'll do the dropper and keep updates


fingers crossed


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## artisticspider (May 29, 2009)

*Update- what should I do next?*

Yesterday, I placed Maggie in an ICU.Along with giving her drops of water, I also place a small, small dish in there by her mouth. I checked on her this morning and the water is gone (not sure if she actually drank or water evaporated) BUT she also Flipped over as if to molt!! Her back legs are stilled curled and still move only slighty.

I was going to leave her in the ICU because if she is molting, I definitely dont want to disturb her.

Is there something else I should do??? I'm so worried about her curled legs....


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## Moltar (May 29, 2009)

Sounds promising. Just watch and wait...

Since she's upside down you could try dropping some more water directly into her mouth.


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## lithiumflower9 (May 29, 2009)

Sound promising.  I hope she molts and is doing well at the end.  Let us know what she does.


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## MizM (May 29, 2009)

Awesome! Leave her in the ICU and keep an eye on her. She definitely needs the high humidity. Best of luck, I hope Maggie pulls through. KEEP US POSTED!


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## artisticspider (May 30, 2009)

*Update*

It's been 2 days now in the ICU, she's still on her back but hasn't started to molt yet....I have put a couple drops in her mouth....*sigh* still waiting, hopefully something happens soon...


Thanks for everyone's help this!!


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## lithiumflower9 (May 30, 2009)

Is she moving at all?


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## artisticspider (May 30, 2009)

Yes she is moving.

I was thinking too- I'm just concerned if she does molt, I hope she can get those curled legs out....


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## BrynWilliams (May 30, 2009)

I don't see why if she does manage to moult that the curled legs would be too much of a problem given how soft they during the moult process. I do hope she does ok!


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## artisticspider (May 31, 2009)

I've been watching her yesterday hoping to see something. I woke up this morning as still no signs of her molting....

I'm concerned. Could it be possible it's too humid and the exo can't break away?


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## artisticspider (Jun 1, 2009)

Another day has passed and she is still on her back but not molting. I dont know what else I can do. I was giving her drops of water as well.  She's still moving. I dont want to move her, but I'd really like to change out the paper towel on the bottom. 

Could it be my ICU is too small for her molt? She's in a deli container but she takes up the majority of the space.


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## BrynWilliams (Jun 1, 2009)

they need roughly twice the height of their knees whes standing relaxed to moult in and a spice as wide their legspan should be plenty.


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## _bob_ (Jun 1, 2009)

what is that substrate she is on? Is that pine?


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## artisticspider (Jun 1, 2009)

OK then she should be ok as far as space goes.
As for the subsrtate- we tried to determine that earlier in the post. I'm honestly not sure and didn't know that pine is toxic. I smelled it and it doesn't smell like pine. It's not new, so I dont think its the problem


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## artisticspider (Jun 15, 2009)

OK, I wanted to give an update on Maggie and take any more advice I can get. Maggie is STILL in her ICU, still alive (infact I've notice a couple of her back legs moving more fluidly), and STILL UPSIDE DOWN!

I've been giving her droplets of water everyday and re-moistening the towel she's on.

I would really like to change out the towel if she's still going to be in there for a awhile. But I dont want to move her since she's upside- another question- she's been upside down now for 2 weeks. Should I try to flip her right side up?


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## gumby (Jun 15, 2009)

Wow I have to say Im amazed she is still moving! Im wondering if she molted but was unable to pop any of the old exoskeleton when you originally saw the issues. If that is the case then she may have found herself stuck in the old skin unable to break out. She does not sound like she can move much so if I were in your shoes I would touch a few of the legs and see if it feels like there may be an outside brittle layer. Im a fairly tactile person so thats what I would do but that does not make it right. I would figure after 2 weeks she would be hard enough to touch if there was a molt that occurred, but who knows. :?


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## artisticspider (Jun 15, 2009)

She actually moves quite well, there's only 2 legs that dont move so much- originally it was the back 4. This is an improvement but I dont know if I should leave her upsidedown. Maybe she wants to get rightside up again but cant do it herself?? 

I dont know if I would touch her legs, if I could determine whether it feels like a brittle layer. I dont touch her legs very hard, and I wouldn't want to touch them too hard to determine if there was a brittle layer- Really not sure that I'd be able to tell....


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## MizM (Jun 16, 2009)

If the paper towel is not soiled, don't worry about changing it. You can turn her over if you are very gentle. You might want to check around the carapace, that would be the first point of separation if she IS molting. I once had an H. lividum who I thought had died, then suddenly molted and came out good as new, I wouldn't give up on her as long as she is moving. If her old "skin" is still on her, it shouldn't be brittle, so you can probably safely manipulate her if you are extremely gentle.


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## artisticspider (Jun 16, 2009)

OK, so I gently flipped her over and actually put her in another container with a clean towel. The other was getting kinda grungy. I also took a couple pics. You can see the very back legs now are the ones curled. Also when I flipped her over her bald spot was very......bald. It may be due to the fact that it was being rubbed on the paper towel for so long (there was some residue left in the old container) or that she just really needs to molt (it has been 2 years). I over looked her and there are NO signs of the carapace breaking away. Everything looks intact. If she really wants to molt- I figure she'll flip back over. 

in the meantime I have a very small water with her in case she wants it. Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


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## Londoner (Jun 16, 2009)

Her abdomen looks a lot plumper now than it did in your original pics which is a good sign; the ICU is obviously doing her some good. Is her bald patch tan colored or dark (black)? The reason I ask is because I can't make out the bald patch in your new pics. All I see is a dark area towards the back of the abdomen. IF that's her bald spot and it IS darkened, then she's close to a molt. Hopefully her legs will sort themselves out after a shed (that's if she is indeed in pre-molt). Those legs are troubling though. I would have expected to see some extension to them with a bit of re-hydration.

Good luck mate. I've been following this thread hoping she makes it  .


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## artisticspider (Jun 16, 2009)

I checked on her to see her bald spot, and found _a lot_ of poop. I'm hoping its not a bad thing. Maybe she was just relieved to get off her back??? So  needless to say I HAD to change out the paper towel. I'm extremely afraid of stressing her out at this point. But her bald patch is dark brown.


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## Moltar (Jun 16, 2009)

Dark brown bald spot means molt isn't that close. I have a rosie with a bald spot that's been dark chocolate brown for like a year. How's her activity level? It looks like she was moving around in that pic. Lotsa pooping is also good. Maybe she needed hydration to move out a blockage.


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## artisticspider (Jun 16, 2009)

Her activity level is high, and moving very well. As long as the pooping wasn't a bad thing (cause the amount really shocked me!) I'm sure she feels a lot better now


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## MizM (Jun 16, 2009)

Maybe she was constipated? Who knows, now that's she's flipped over, maybe there will be some change. Hope she pulls through.


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## artisticspider (Jun 19, 2009)

I found Maggie on her back again at 1:00 am. I went back to bed and hoped that she was molting. It's 7:00am and still nothing yet. I checked on her and notice that now there's a bare spot on the bottom of the abdomen. She's still moving, I gave her a drop of water,which she was receptive to. Still have my fingers crossed. Just watching and waiting I guess. Any suggestions if she goes days (weeks) again on her back??


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## becca81 (Jun 19, 2009)

Honestly, I'm not sure what she's doing is molting.  I think it may be more along the lines of just getting stuck on her back for one reason or another and not being able to get back upright due to her legs.

In the very first picture, she looks dehydrated.  In the later pictures, she looks much better (at least in terms of hydration.)

If she is molting, you'll want to keep an eye on her during the process to watch for any problems with the legs.  It's possible she'll lose them during the molt, but I'd think she could get around better without them at this point.

Look at the bare spot - if it's pinkish, then she's not about to molt.  If it's black, she likely is.


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## artisticspider (Jun 19, 2009)

No, this bare spot is on the bottom of her belly, I can see it now that she's flipped over. She didn't have this the last time she was flipped over.


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## becca81 (Jun 19, 2009)

artisticspider said:


> No, this bare spot is on the bottom of her belly, I can see it now that she's flipped over. She didn't have this the last time she was flipped over.


I'm gonna guess that that is from her dragging her abdomen as she moves around.

- Becca


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## MizM (Jun 19, 2009)

Don't really think there IS much you can do but keep her hydrated and wait.


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## artisticspider (Jul 7, 2009)

*Update!*

OK, since my last post on 6/19/09, she was on her back. She had flipped herself over again a couple days afterward and has stayed right side up. She's still alive and still improving!!

She now has 1 back leg that only kinda curls under every now and then. when she moves around she'll extend it but eventually ends up curled again, though not as severe as before. 

May question is: Is it still too soon to move her back into her home?

I have thoroughly cleaned out her tank and has new peat substrate ready for her.

Or should I wait until I see 100% recovery in the last leg?


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## Moltar (Jul 8, 2009)

I'd say you can go ahead and move her back. Just keep an eye on her.


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