# B. Vagans enclosure



## Duke911 (Feb 11, 2019)

Hey guys I recently purchased a 3 year old female B. Vagans and made an enclosure for her it is a 12x12x18in enclosure with several inches of substrate for burrowing what do you guys think.
P. S all the plants are fake and are made of soft silk plastic as to not harm my T. And just in case you don't see it there is a shallow water dish in the front corner.
P. P. S the light on top was only there for the picture.


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## cold blood (Feb 11, 2019)

The enclosure is not appropriate.

Needs a massive amount if sub to make it safe...front doors prevent this.

This is an arboreal enclosure.

Reactions: Agree 5


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## Vanisher (Feb 11, 2019)

One way of making it ok is to make a slope of substrate. Little substrate in the front and deep sub in the back! You do it by this. 2 cm behind the front you beginning to build the substrate. It is not gonna be a traditional slope, instead the surface ofcthe sub is gonna be pretty even. Little sub where the doors are and then a deep layer beginning 2 cm behind the doors! Hope you understand what i mean, my english is not perfect! But problems gonna occur with substrate spilling over and out from the tank when you open the doors and so on, especially if the spider digs!  Like Cold blood says there are far better tanks for a terrestrial spider


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## Thekla (Feb 11, 2019)

Like @cold blood said, this enclosure isn't appropriate for a terrestrial T. Even if you put more substrate in the back, there'll always be an about 13-14" gap between the substrate and the top at the front doors. If your spider climbs and falls from that height, it'll severely injure itself... it could even die. Also, an Exo Terra has a mesh lid, where your T could get their tarsal claws stuck in. 

I housed my B. vagans in this, much safer enclosure:

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Winner 2


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## Duke911 (Feb 11, 2019)

Thanks for all the replys guys!! I measured the sub and I have 4 and a half inches. and from the top of the sub to the top of the enclosure is only 11in is that still to tall for my T?


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## Thekla (Feb 11, 2019)

Duke911 said:


> Thanks for all the replys guys!! I measured the sub and I have 4 and a half inches. and from the top of the sub to the top of the enclosure is only 11in is that still to tall for my T?


Curious. 4,5" + 11" = 15,5" 
What about the remaining 2,5"? 

But yes, it's still too tall. What's the DLS of your T? With 3 years, I'd say 3-4"? If it's 4", there shouldn't be more than about 6" between the substrate and the top.


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## Vanisher (Feb 11, 2019)

Thekla said:


> Like @cold blood said, this enclosure isn't appropriate for a terrestrial T. Even if you put more substrate in the back, there'll always be an about 13-14" gap between the substrate and the top at the front doors. If your spider climbs and falls from that height, it'll severely injure itself... it could even die. Also, an Exo Terra has a mesh lid, where your T could get their tarsal claws stuck in.
> 
> I housed my B. vagans in this, much safer enclosure:
> 
> View attachment 299894


But how much substrate can you get inside there? Isnt those very low? I had a similair and i thought it was to low. I only could get around 10 cm of sub inside! For opoortunistic burrowers like a B vagans i prefer 30cm×30cm×30cm or maybe little larger terrarium you open in the top with 20cm layer of substrate


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## Duke911 (Feb 11, 2019)

Thekla said:


> Curious. 4,5" + 11" = 15,5"
> What about the remaining 2,5"?
> 
> But yes, it's still too tall. What's the DLS of your T? With 3 years, I'd say 3-4"? If it's 4", there shouldn't be more than about 6" between the substrate and the top.


The other 2 and a half would be the top and bottom lip of the cage. And I think she is close to 4 so I will set up another enclosure when I get time this evening!!!! Appreciate everyones help!!!!!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Thekla (Feb 11, 2019)

Vanisher said:


> But how much substrate can you get inside there? Isnt those very low? I had a similair and i thought it was to low. I only could get around 10 cm of sub inside! For opoortunistic burrowers like a B vagans i prefer 30cm×30cm×30cm or maybe little larger terrarium you open in the top with 20cm layer of substrate


She's got enough substrate to make herself a nice comfy burrow if she wanted to... She burrowed when she was younger, but since her last moult, when she hit about 3,5", she never even tries to hide or use her burrow. She's always out in the open. In her previous enclosure she even filled her burrow up with substrate. So, I believe 4" of substrate (where she *could *make herself a home) is quite enough.
Maybe I'll change my mind if she ever starts to dig again...


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## cold blood (Feb 11, 2019)

Get a new enclosure.


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## Thekla (Feb 11, 2019)

cold blood said:


> Get a new enclosure.


Agreed! 
You could use the Exo Terra for a nice large arboreal species. Some Avics can get quite large and would fit in there nicely (when adult).

Reactions: Agree 1


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## cold blood (Feb 11, 2019)

Vanisher said:


> One way of making it ok is to make a slope of substrate. Little substrate in the front and deep sub i


Ive seen this before...I see this as feel good attempt, not a _real_ solution...like someone attempting to dress up a turd to look nice....doesnt change the fact its a turd.  The slope doesnt change the fact that its an enclosure best suited for arboreals.

Sloping, makes part of it look better, but does nothing to make things any safer....in fact, the slope can compound the issue if a t molts toward the top, and rolls down...and any t that makes a fall from the top could well roll or bounce right to the bottom.  And if it falls in the front, its no better than right now anyway.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Vanisher (Feb 11, 2019)

Yes i agree


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## The Grym Reaper (Feb 11, 2019)

Vanisher said:


> I only could get around 10 cm of sub inside!


4" of sub is plenty for any non-burrowing terrestrial, I have 4 flat exo terra faunariums (housing B. hamorii/B. emilia/G. pulchripes/N. chromatus, none of which have made any attempt to dig since they hit 3") and I've never had an issue with them (in fact, I much prefer them to the breeder boxes which seem to get recommended much more on here).

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Uial (Feb 11, 2019)

As a sidenote about the B. vagans specifically, some keepers keep 1/3 of the substrate a bit moist, some keep the substrate bonedry, you might want to experiment some with that. If the T is often sitting in the wet spot, it's a sign that she does appreciate it.  






Here is a vid by Tom Moran about B. vagans husbandry, if you'd rather have your information in video format, I know it always helps me to visualise things better, even if all the new information seems overwhelming right now.


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## viper69 (Feb 12, 2019)

Duke911 said:


> what do you guys think


*Why did you provide an arboreal setup to a terrestrial animal?* Who gave you the idea this was a wise idea?

You can totally use that setup if you mod it slightly and put it on its side.

http://arachnoboards.com/threads/ex...rom-arboreal-to-terrestrial-pic-heavy.259864/


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## Vanisher (Feb 12, 2019)

The Grym Reaper said:


> 4" of sub is plenty for any non-burrowing terrestrial, I have 4 flat exo terra faunariums (housing B. hamorii/B. emilia/G. pulchripes/N. chromatus, none of which have made any attempt to dig since they hit 3") and I've never had an issue with them (in fact, I much prefer them to the breeder boxes which seem to get recommended much more on here).


I wouldnt call a B vagans a non burrowing terrestrial! Few terrestrial speicies are non burrowers. B vagans digs burrows in nature and in terrarium as well. If i am remembering right i have had a B vagans that burrowed!? Even though a tarantula speicies ere known to not burrow in terrarium (like a G rosea) they can, and should be provided by a deep layer of substrate if you ask me!


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## The Grym Reaper (Feb 12, 2019)

Vanisher said:


> I wouldnt call a B vagans a non burrowing terrestrial! Few terrestrial speicies are non burrowers.


Actually, a lot of species only burrow as slings/juvies, there are exceptions but a lot of species forgo burrowing (or even using a hide although I still provide one of those) altogether once they hit 3-4".



Vanisher said:


> If i am remembering right i have had a B vagans that burrowed!?


I have a B. hamorii whose temper would make an OBT cack itself, doesn't mean they're all grumpy.



Vanisher said:


> Even though a tarantula speicies ere known to not burrow in terrarium (like a G rosea) they can, and should be provided by a deep layer of substrate if you ask me!


I go with the spider's behaviour on this, I'm not going to waste space and substrate giving a spider that doesn't make any attempt to burrow 8" of substrate.

Reactions: Agree 1


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