# Best way to stun/kill feeder rats?



## sassysmama

Ok, so I am trying to find out an easy and humane way to incapacitate feeders.  I will never feed live because of the risk to the snake.  My biggest problem is that I can't hold them by the tail and hit their heads on the ground, or any other object.  I don't know what my problem is, but I just never hit them hard enough and I ALWAYS get bit.  Seriously, I've been bitten like 12 times trying to do that.  I can't hit them over the head with anything else, either, for the same reason, I just can't seem to hit them hard enough.  Mice, I can do, but the rats you have to hit really hard and it just never works.  
So, how do I do it?  I have heard that you can grab them by the neck and push down and seperate their vertabrae, but again, sounds like a lot of force and I'm also very nervous around rats now, because I've been bitten so much.  I have to feed like 4 large rats a week and it's becoming a huge problem.  I've also heard that you can drown them, and it only takes about thirty seconds, but isn't that kind of cruel?  Any advice on a humane way that will also leave all my fingers intact would be so helpful.

Also, I don't want to cause any controversy with this.  I don't hate rats, I want to be as humane as possible with them, but these feeders are not like cuddly little pets.  They are not used to human contact, they kick frantically and will climb their tails and bite anything that they can get ahold of.  The last time I got bit it severed a tendon in my finger and you could see the bone.  I feel bad for the rats, but hey, I don't want to get hurt.  And I won't feed frozen/thawed.  It's a really long story, but no, I absolutely won't do it.  I know many people don't agree, but I've honestly tried all other options and this is where I am at.
-Ally


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## dtknow

It works with a rabbit...but unless someone here says no I'd bet it would work on a large rat.

Get a firm grip on the head(rabbit much easier as you can get the ears), grab the legs/hindquarters. Bend the head up and at the same time jerk the hindquarters back and upward. As for bites...maybe garden gloves will help.


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## Mushroom Spore

sassysmama said:


> And I won't feed frozen/thawed.  It's a really long story, but no, I absolutely won't do it.


Do you mean you won't kill them in the freezer (which I agree is inhumane), or that you are against prey that has been killed by other means and then frozen for storage? Because IMO letting a professional dealer humanely euth them with gas is a lot better for the rodents *and* your hands.


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## omni

I use mice for feeders and it's easy to whack em dead or stunned, but I'm going to have to start a rat colony for my Burm so I'm thinking about a CO2 setup to put them down. Yeah, they are tougher, and F/T at the petstores is $4+. I think that's the preferred method for euthanasia. You might have around 50 bucks in the setup, but A small tank would last you a few months if your only needing 4/wk.


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## Diggy415

i have been raising feeders for years, if it's pinks they go straight in the freezer, any large rats, take by the base of the tail and whack on a sharp edge, hitting and breaking the neck. there's no reason to get bit, as you are no where near the head during this time, that's on you. With weaned rats i place them on the floor holding their tail and use the back of a butter knife and press their neck down, done. 
Good luck,


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## ZooRex

Omni beat me to it. CO2 is the way to go, thats how most (if not all) large distributers do it. I never thought to build one, all my room is for my reptiles. But if I ever need to start rasing my own rodents like roaches, I'll deifinatly build a chamber. Its simple humane and you are not in contact to be bitten. Just a few minutes and they go to sleep. Good Luck ~ Rex


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## kingfarvito

CO2 is equal to drowning IMHO CO and this are the ways to go 
[YOUTUBE]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/n85RK12Meu8&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/n85RK12Meu8&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/YOUTUBE]


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## xchondrox

I agree co2 is the best way to go for larger scale rodent breeders. 
For the common hobbiest thats raising rats to feed afew snakes, co2 would be a good option if you are killing quite afew at a time. If your planning on using co2 to kill 2 or 3 rats at a time thats a waste of time/money in my opinion, just figure out why your wackin' them wrong and correct it


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## kingfarvito

xchondrox said:


> I agree co2 is the best way to go for larger scale rodent breeders.
> For the common hobbiest thats raising rats to feed afew snakes, co2 would be a good option if you are killing quite afew at a time. If your planning on using co2 to kill 2 or 3 rats at a time thats a waste of time/money in my opinion, just figure out why your wackin' them wrong and correct it


CO2 is in humane and is equal to drowning

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## 357wheelgunner

This thread is hilarious.

They seriously have little mouse gas chambers?  Anyone have a link to a video or pic of the setup?  It sounds expensive, and my first guess would be that they just say that so people don't have to feel bad about how their pet food dies.

I couldn't own a pet that couldn't kill its own food, I don't think I could get used to whacking mammals on a wall multiple times a week.  I have respect for you snake guys...


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## snakemaster1

The main way that is humane to kill rats is either by using co2 but that is only feasibile if you are doing hundreds. Or you can do cervical dislocation you put a screwdriver across the rats neck (horizontal to the vertical rat) and press down firmly keeping the rat from squirming and pull at the base of the rats tail this will separate the spinal column and the rat dies in seconds works on mice as well .


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## kingfarvito

All of you that think CO2 is humane go put some vinegar and baking soda in a bottle and breath the gas or shake up a half full soda bottle and then breath from it. CO (carbon monoxide) is the gas that makes you fall asleep it gets absorbed the same as oxygen while CO2 (carbon dioxide) gives an effect simalar to drowning


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## JohnEDove

omni said:


> I use mice for feeders and it's easy to whack em dead or stunned, but I'm going to have to start a rat colony for my Burm so I'm thinking about a CO2 setup to put them down. Yeah, they are tougher, and F/T at the petstores is $4+. I think that's the preferred method for euthanasia. You might have around 50 bucks in the setup, but A small tank would last you a few months if your only needing 4/wk.


Wrote this a long time ago and it is what I still use. Works just as quickly and effectively as those high dollar set ups.

*CO2 Chamber for Dummies*
written by the king of dummies 
John E Dove

1. Get one of those tall plastic 5 – 7 gallon buckets, the type with the removable lid. The one I use is about 18 inches high and contained motor oil at one time.

2. Slit the provided slots around the sides of the lid so you can take the lid off and wash out the interior of the bucket.

3. Now get a 39oz Coffee can also with a plastic lid.

4. Place the coffee can on top of the plastic bucket lid and draw a circle around the coffee can on the plastic lid. 

5. With a very sharp knife cut out the marked circle. You will want the coffee can to fit fairly tight into this hole so cut on the inside of the circle line you have drawn. You can always trim it larger if needed but you cannot put the plastic back once you have cut it away.

6. Drill two holes just large enough to screw in a sheet metal screw about 1 inch down from the top of the can in opposite sides in the coffee can.

7. Drill large holes in the side coffee can about 3 inches down from the top all the way around. This will be where the gas escapes into the chamber. I made my holes ½ inch in diameter and spaced them one inch apart.

8. Insert two sheet metal screws ½ way into the pre drilled holes 1 inch from the top of the coffee can.

9. Insert the coffee can into the hole made for it in the plastic bucket lid until the screws come into contact with the plastic lid.

10. Get some dry ice.

11. Line the bottom of the bucket with some paper towels to absorb any urine the rodents will leave when they are dieing.

12.  Put rodents in the bucket.

13. Place plastic lid, with the coffee can inserted, on the bucket.

14. Pour about ½ - 1 cup of water into the coffee can. I am not sure if this is needed but it hastens the CO2 reaction. 

15. With a pair of tongs place about ¼ - ½ pound of dry ice in the water in the can.

16. Place the lid on the coffee can and wait. 

Give it till the dry ice is gone or 10 minutes whichever is greater and the rodents will be dead.
It actually takes about 5 minutes for a large rat to die but they lose consciousness much sooner. For some reason the younger the rat the longer it takes but don’t ask me why.

Reactions: Like 1


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## JohnEDove

dark_abyss0 said:


> All of you that think CO2 is humane go put some vinegar and baking soda in a bottle and breath the gas or shake up a half full soda bottle and then breath from it. CO (carbon monoxide) is the gas that makes you fall asleep it gets absorbed the same as oxygen while CO2 (carbon dioxide) gives an effect simalar to drowning


The CO2 chamber method is the only humane way to kill feeder rodents according to the American Veterinary Medical Association. If you are not willing to accept their scientific study on the subject ..........

Reactions: Like 1


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## kingfarvito

JohnEDove said:


> The CO2 chamber method is the only humane way to kill feeder rodents according to the American Veterinary Medical Association. If you are not willing to accept their scientific study on the subject ..........


go breath some CO2

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## sick4x4

i think dark hit it one the head, literally........


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## Mushroom Spore

dark_abyss0 said:


> go breath some CO2


Stupid off-topic nitpick: it's BREATHE. You have breath in your lungs, but as a verb it's *breathe*. 

Also I am more inclined to go with the scientific and medical knowledge of the American Veterinary Medical Association over some random screenname on the internet, myself. dark_abyss0, you're just making yourself look foolish by insisting people should go poison themselves for disagreeing with you.



357wheelgunner said:


> It sounds expensive, and my first guess would be that they just say that so people don't have to feel bad about how their pet food dies.


It's quite legit, and they really do it that way.



357wheelgunner said:


> I couldn't own a pet that couldn't kill its own food


It's not that they CAN'T, it's that their food has teeth and really, really wants to live. Once in a while, the prey does some damage, and you can lose your pet - even deer probably maim a wolf in self-defense on occasion. I'm fond of my python, had him for years, and would rather not see his skull ripped open by a panicked rat.

Also prey that's been frozen is generally more convenient (meat in your freezer doesn't have to be housed or fed or cleaned up after), and being frozen for a time helps kill off any diseases or parasites. And it's cheaper. I'd be lying if I said those didn't also help my decision-making.

Reactions: Like 1


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## kingfarvito

Mushroom Spore said:


> Stupid off-topic nitpick: it's BREATHE. You have breath in your lungs, but as a verb it's *breathe*.
> 
> Also I am more inclined to go with the scientific and medical knowledge of the American Veterinary Medical Association over some random screenname on the internet, myself. dark_abyss0, you're just making yourself look foolish by insisting people should go poison themselves for disagreeing with you.


thank you for correcting me  

and im not trying to get people to poison themselves I'm saying if you go take a breath of CO2 you'll realize that its a cruel way to kill feeders.I wonder how many of the American Veterinary Medical Association have tried breathing CO2? the experience is simalar to drowning


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## sassysmama

My biggest question I guess needs to be, where do I get feeder rats that behave like the one in the youtube video that was posted?  If my rats were like that, it'd be fine.  But they kick frantically and they squeal as soon as you touch them, and when you hold the tail, they IMMEDIATELY turn or climb up and bite.  There is no way I would ever let one walk on my arm.  There is something about watching an animal bite you, tear off a chunk of flesh, and then start eating it that is very disconcerting.  
When I said frozen/thawed, I meant the ones you buy.  I have tried 10 different sources, including online companies, and I have never had any luck.  My snakes either refuse to eat them or they regurg.  I am 100% positive that it is not the temp.  I have used a temp probe to check internal temps, they are totally fine.  I am doing it exactly like all the experts say to, but they still regurg.  I have even spoken to vets about it.  All I can say is, it perplexes me as well.  But I can honestly say I have dumped about $500 into trying to make the frozen/thawed thing work, and all I ended up with was three skinny snakes, one who later died. Although I have no proof that it was from that, I will not be trying again.  So, if the frozen feeders work for you, awesome.  Don't mess with what works.
My question the people who suggested CO2 is: is there any chance the CO2 will harm the snake?  I am curious as to if that was the problem with the ones I got that were pre-frozen.
I am currently looking into finding a pet store that has excess "pet" quality rats like the hairless and dumbos, that they will sell as feeders.  They are much more tolerant of handling.  That and I guess I will practice whacking things on the head.;P


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## ThomasH

dark_abyss0 said:


> thank you for correcting me
> 
> and im not trying to get people to poison themselves I'm saying if you go take a breath of CO2 you'll realize that its a cruel way to kill feeders.I wonder how many of the American Veterinary Medical Association have tried breathing CO2? the experience is simalar to drowning


 We don't have to try it ourselves, we just observe what happens to the prey items. Believe me, rodents SCREECH very loudly in pain. The AVMA has the highest standards out there. Don't second guess them. 
I would just bop them harder. Or dare I say it, *strongly* and I stress *strongly* supervise a live feeding. Sorry I don't know much about CO2's effect on snakes. I wouldn't try it without freezing first though. You heat water in a bowl and then put the rodents in and wait a while, right? Not microwave the rodents?


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## reverendsterlin

do it the easy way http://www.frozenrodent.com/ or http://www.rodentpro.com/ all you need is a little freezer space.

Rev


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## ThomasH

reverendsterlin said:


> do it the easy way http://www.frozenrodent.com/ or http://www.rodentpro.com/ all you need is a little freezer space.
> 
> Rev


Did you even read what she wrote?


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## reverendsterlin

sure did, she never explained the why behind her dislike of frozen/thawed. still the easy way is frozen. I have been a breeder for years and couldn't begin to afford live prey to pre-kill myself in the numbers I used. CO2 chamber has been explained, she says she can't whack em, alternative is pre-frozen from a reputable company I gave her addy's. What's it to you anyway?
Rev


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## ThomasH

sassysmama said:


> When I said frozen/thawed, I meant the ones you buy.  I have tried 10 different sources, including online companies, and I have never had any luck.  My snakes either refuse to eat them or they regurg.  I am 100% positive that it is not the temp.  I have used a temp probe to check internal temps, they are totally fine.  I am doing it exactly like all the experts say to, but they still regurg.  I have even spoken to vets about it.  All I can say is, it perplexes me as well.  But I can honestly say I have dumped about $500 into trying to make the frozen/thawed thing work, and all I ended up with was three skinny snakes, one who later died. Although I have no proof that it was from that, I will not be trying again.  So, if the frozen feeders work for you, awesome.  Don't mess with what works.


@ReverendSterlin.


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## ThomasH

sassysmama said:


> I am currently looking into finding a pet store that has excess "pet" quality rats like the hairless and dumbos, that they will sell as feeders.  They are much more tolerant of handling.  That and I guess I will practice whacking things on the head.;P


That won't help. They're all just domesticated rats, all pretty much the same things.
Good Luck and Peace Out,
TBH


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## ballpython2

sassysmama said:


> Ok, so I am trying to find out an easy and humane way to incapacitate feeders.  I will never feed live because of the risk to the snake.  My biggest problem is that I can't hold them by the tail and hit their heads on the ground, or any other object.  I don't know what my problem is, but I just never hit them hard enough and I ALWAYS get bit.  Seriously, I've been bitten like 12 times trying to do that.  I can't hit them over the head with anything else, either, for the same reason, I just can't seem to hit them hard enough.  Mice, I can do, but the rats you have to hit really hard and it just never works.
> So, how do I do it?  I have heard that you can grab them by the neck and push down and seperate their vertabrae, but again, sounds like a lot of force and I'm also very nervous around rats now, because I've been bitten so much.  I have to feed like 4 large rats a week and it's becoming a huge problem.  I've also heard that you can drown them, and it only takes about thirty seconds, but isn't that kind of cruel?  Any advice on a humane way that will also leave all my fingers intact would be so helpful.
> 
> Also, I don't want to cause any controversy with this.  I don't hate rats, I want to be as humane as possible with them, but these feeders are not like cuddly little pets.  They are not used to human contact, they kick frantically and will climb their tails and bite anything that they can get ahold of.  The last time I got bit it severed a tendon in my finger and you could see the bone.  I feel bad for the rats, but hey, I don't want to get hurt.  And I won't feed frozen/thawed.  It's a really long story, but no, I absolutely won't do it.  I know many people don't agree, but I've honestly tried all other options and this is where I am at.
> -Ally


One way you can do it is by holding the rat by the neck and quickly with force pull the tail  towards you (backwards) if i  explained that rigth this should break the  rats neck cause it dislocates the spine from the back...But this isnt how i do it Lol... I just put the rat in a small plastic bag or trash bag and hit it on the curb or a brick wall and he's out for the count depending ont the size...because some times i do live prey


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## kingfarvito

BoaConstrictor said:


> *We don't have to try it ourselves, we just observe what happens to the prey items. Believe me, rodents SCREECH very loudly in pain. The AVMA has the highest standards out there. Don't second guess them. *
> I would just bop them harder. Or dare I say it, strongly and I stress strongly supervise a live feeding. Sorry I don't know much about CO2's effect on snakes. I wouldn't try it without freezing first though. You heat water in a bowl and then put the rodents in and wait a while, right? Not microwave the rodents?


cant really screech when you have no oxygen but they do run around looking for an escape path and noses/feet turn blue-purple thats what got me curious and thats why I tried breathing CO2....with CO they just sit there calmly and slowly "go to sleep"


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## hairmetalspider

dark_abyss0 said:


> CO2 is in humane and is equal to drowning


EDIT: Ok so I read this wrong. My bad dude.


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## hairmetalspider

sassysmama said:


> I don't hate rats, I want to be as humane as possible with them, but these feeders are not like cuddly little pets.
> -Ally


Just being nitpicky, but there are quite a lot of people who would disagree with you.

Many people don't think tarantulas are pets either...


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## Mushroom Spore

sassysmama said:


> My question the people who suggested CO2 is: is there any chance the CO2 will harm the snake?


No. As a gas, it dissipates/is replaced by outside air the second they take the rodents out of the chamber.

Your situation sounds REALLY odd. There's gotta be something else going wrong there, though I'm not sure what it could be. It almost sounds like they weren't fully thawed - internal frozen bits are known to cause regurges - but you said you used an internal temp probe. The only other thing I can think of is that one or more of your suppliers may have given you rodents that were allowed to thaw and refreeze, which pet stores especially are kinda infamous for. That tends to turn meat into bacteria-ridden death.

But online shippers shouldn't have that problem, since it's only out of their freezer for like two days before it goes into your freezer, and they pack with dry ice and insulation. I've almost burned myself on how cold those rodents are when I unpack. 

How long did you thaw them? :? I realize you've probably heard all this before, but getting to the root of the problem so that you can use frozen feeders safely still seems like a better idea than getting maimed and stuff.

Also what kind of snakes were they, and where did you get them? You're right, it's definitely possible they had other problems if they were regurging so badly.



BoaConstrictor said:


> You heat water in a bowl and then put the rodents in and wait a while, right? Not microwave the rodents?


Definitely don't microwave. Even if they don't explode ( ) there's apparently a huge risk of internal hotspots that could burn the snake.


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## Scott C.

................


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## sassysmama

That was actually funny, but no, no I do not microwave them.  I use warm/hot/room temp water and have tried every temp from 70 degrees Farenheit to 99 degrees Farenheit.  Well, ok not every temp, I went with intervals of 5 until I got to 85, then intervals of 2.  I have ordered from all the big name online dealers.  Rodent Pro, Rodent Gourmet, you name it.  Like I said, I probably spent over $500 on feeders that never worked.  Nevermind the 3 temp probes.  All I can say is I have no idea why some people have absolutely no problem and they just throw the rat in a bowl of warm water for 10 minutes.  Great if it works, it just doesn't for me.  When I have another couple hundred bucks I may to try again.  I will also take tissue samples of the rats and send them to the lab to test for abnormalities and actually fully open the rat's abdominal cavity and take temps of all organs.  Since I'm a vet tech now, I may just do that.  But for now, I just need food for my snakes.

@ hairmetalspider:
Please stop being so "nitpicky."  I was referring to the fact that these rats do not act like pets, not saying they did not deserve a humane death.  And yes, I value keeping all of my fingers over not harming the rat.  No, contrary to popular belief, MANY people do not place the welfare of a rat over the welfare of a human being.  If YOU have a problem with the way I handle rats, well, say that.  Don't make it seem like you are in the majority.  Are these people that you keep referring to PETA?  What do they think of your use of hair dye on a skunk?:?   Sure seems like you make up information to use to your own advantage. 
-Ally


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## Mushroom Spore

sassysmama said:


> All I can say is I have no idea why some people have absolutely no problem and they just throw the rat in a bowl of warm water for 10 minutes.  Great if it works, it just doesn't for me.


I have to confess I'm half-asleep and can't reliably tell exaggeration from fact.  *Did* you only go for ten minutes? I usually just set out the mouse/rat for around eight hours, myself. But even with warm water I don't think it'd be fully unfrozen to the core in ten minutes unless it was maybe a pinkie. :?


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## hairmetalspider

sassysmama said:


> @ hairmetalspider:
> Please stop being so "nitpicky."  I was referring to the fact that these rats do not act like pets, not saying they did not deserve a humane death.  And yes, I value keeping all of my fingers over not harming the rat.  No, contrary to popular belief, MANY people do not place the welfare of a rat over the welfare of a human being.  If YOU have a problem with the way I handle rats, well, say that.  Don't make it seem like you are in the majority.  Are these people that you keep referring to PETA?  What do they think of your use of hair dye on a skunk?:?   Sure seems like you make up information to use to your own advantage.
> -Ally


...What?

You went way off the handle there. What information am I making up? As far as I knew, an opinion or opinionated statement is not 'information'. I was making a comment that not everyone would agree with your opinion and you might find that here on the boards.

As far as my skunks being dyed (And it's kind of un-nerving you went through the trouble to find this.), there's nothing in the 'PETA protocol' (Since you like to use Peta in here.) that would pose a threat. (Particularly if you talk to the PETA II organization.)The ingredients in said dye is far less than anything used in basic dog or cat shampoo. You probably put more acidic compounds into your own hair. The dye was also put on the tip of the follicle, and never touched the skin. 

I think you're making a big stretch between you bashing a rats head and me dying my animals fur with basically food coloring. But hey, if that's how you need to get ahead. 

Accept the fact others have an opinion. (And this my dear, does not make it the 'majority', either. You deciphered that all on your own.)
 Mine being that rats are less of a pet simply because of their demeanor.


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## vbrooke

I have 2 snakes, one will eat frozen , thawed food. The other is a little pooper and refuses. We buy live feeder rats/rabbits and use the vertebrae dislocation method. Works like a charm. We also always wear thick gloves to avoid bites, I must agree that rat bites hurt! I would never recommend hitting any feeder animal on the ground (personal experience), sometimes it does nothing other than mess up the animal. It is very hard to be accurate when swinging something by it's tail. I believe someone already stated the method of dislocation. If you want further info you can PM me.  

Vicki


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## sassysmama

Ok.  I was joking about the skunk thing.  It was sarcasm.  I could care less about what you do to your skunk's fur.  Dye it, shave it, put bows in it, all in good fun.  And I did not look it up, I remembered the thread from a long time ago.  I actually thought it was pretty cute, and very obviously not anything to be worried about.  I was just making the point that people accused you of wrong-doing over something as simple as coloring the tail of a skunk.  
And I don't know if you noticed, but I was saying that I did NOT want to bash the rat's heads in, and wanted to find a better way.  As it is I drive 20 minutes out of my way to a pet store with an employee who seperates the cervical vertabrae.
Yes, you said "a lot of people."  No implication of majority, but clearly you are trying to represent YOUR opinion as more important than it is.  Notice how in my posts, I said that I, as in me personally, did not want to use frozen/thawed, and that I, personally had bad experiences with it.  Notice that I did not say "A LOT of people don't like frozen/thawed" or "MANY people prefer to use fresh killed".  (Even though, technically, that is probably true).  That brings me to the question, why on earth are you bothering to post on this thread?  Do you have snakes?  Do you feed live or frozen/thawed?  Do you have any direct knowledge in killing rats?
Ahhh yes, and about PETA. The very fact that you own a skunk, keep it as a pet, and use it to amuse you is diametrically opposed to the foundations of PETA.  I can refer you to several interesting books about PETA if you would like.  I, however, do not agree with PETA.  That is their opinion, I have my own.  Just pointing out that absolutely everything that has to do with animals can be argued.  But if I saw a post supporting PETA, I wouldn't chime in with my two cents, because I wouldn't have anything relevant to add.  I'm just not sure why you posted that every way suggested was inhumane, but you had no suggestions on how it could be done better.  Seems like that would be stirring the pot.
Anyway, have fun with your animals.  I may have to look up that old post, because now I want to see what kind of dye that was.  I have an opossum that could really use a pink mohawk.  
-Ally


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## vvx

sassysmama said:


> But they kick frantically and they squeal as soon as you touch them, and when you hold the tail, they IMMEDIATELY turn or climb up and bite.  There is no way I would ever let one walk on my arm.  There is something about watching an animal bite you, tear off a chunk of flesh, and then start eating it that is very disconcerting.


haha, you can handle the snakes but nor domesticated rats? Little kids keep them for pets for pete's sake. As long as it doesn't think you're going to bash it for reptile food they're pretty cute & cuddly and easy to handle. Just pick it up normally, not by the tail. Picking a big rat up by the tail is probably equivalent to picking up a person by a finger/toe. It just isn't really built to support the weight that way.


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## Mushroom Spore

vvx said:


> haha, you can handle the snakes but nor domesticated rats? Little kids keep them for pets for pete's sake. As long as it doesn't think you're going to bash it for reptile food they're pretty cute & cuddly and easy to handle.


Just fyi there is a difference between properly socialized rats raised as pets, and completely unsocialized feeders kept in overcrowded conditions whose only human contact is being manhandled by the occasional petshop owner.


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## reverendsterlin

BoaConstrictor said:


> @ReverendSterlin.


my bad
Rev


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## reverendsterlin

Cryptosporidium can cause chronic regurgitation as can some parasites. Crypto is a serious disease that is not curable and very infectious. IBD also causes chronic regurgitation. Several other possibilities will as well, in most cases the cause of chronic regurgitation is infectious and quickly spreads through a collection. Far too many keepers and breeders use frozen/thawed to place the blame on on that aspect.
Rev


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## ThomasH

I agree with Mushroom Spore, there is definitely something else wrong here. 

Geeze, people! I am so lost in the 15 or so different debates posted here that I don't even know which way is up.
TBH


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## reverendsterlin

sassysmama said:


> That was actually funny, but no, no I do not microwave them.  I use warm/hot/room temp water and have tried every temp from 70 degrees Farenheit to 99 degrees Farenheit.  Well, ok not every temp, I went with intervals of 5 until I got to 85, then intervals of 2.  I have ordered from all the big name online dealers.  Rodent Pro, Rodent Gourmet, you name it.  Like I said, I probably spent over $500 on feeders that never worked.  Nevermind the 3 temp probes.
> -Ally


All I can say is that I used hot water, usually it took over 20-30 minutes. After removing from the water I left them out for another 10 minutes and then checked to see if they were cool/cold to the touch. As in my earlier post, there are several causes for chronic regurge problems, many of which are very contagious and can decimate a collection. I hope you find a solution that satisfies you, good luck.
Rev


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## Tim Benzedrine

Well, I don't use any vertebrates for feeders, but I can point you guys out to a news story that shows how NOT to do it.


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## ThomasH

Tim Benzedrine said:


> Well, I don't use any vertebrates for feeders, but I can point you guys out to a news story that shows how NOT to do it.


That's one sick dude! Only one weekend in jail?


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## dtknow

Tim Benzedrine said:


> Well, I don't use any vertebrates for feeders, but I can point you guys out to a news story that shows how NOT to do it.


Wow. Sure makes us look good! We are now a bunch of sadists who enjoy killing mice and rabbits for our monsters(well, I don't keep any reptiles or feed mice out, but animal hobbies are all together).


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## eL Tre

357wheelgunner said:


> ...I don't think I could get used to whacking mammals on a wall multiple times a week.  I have respect for you snake guys...



Hahah this made me laugh, i dont think i could handle that either...  or anyone else i live with for that matter  

but hey whatever it takes to keep your critters scratch free!


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## 7mary3

So I know that this thread has been done for a few days, but my roomates and myself have a pretty simple way to kill our feeders that has worked every time. Get a heavy duty trash bag (the outdoor type) and drop said rat into the bag. Twist it around once or twice. Hold the bag over your shoulder. Swing it over your shoulder hard so that the rat hits the floor (preferably not carpeted flooring). Remove dead rat. This has worked every time for my roommates and myself. 

again, sorry to revive this thread, but nobody had mentioned this and it's pretty fail safe.


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## bigtyler1025

Dark abyss, I understand your concern, but if the snake was killing the rat by itself, it is suffocating the rat anyway. It seems to be about the same to me. Do you keep snakes at all?


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## kingfarvito

bigtyler1025 said:


> Dark abyss, I understand your concern, but if the snake was killing the rat by itself, it is suffocating the rat anyway. It seems to be about the same to me. Do you keep snakes at all?


yes I do and I PK humanly with a smack on the wall


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## Rick McJimsey

Hmm.
Ok, I'll breathe in some CO2 and judge if it's inhumane.
I'll smash your head on the wall and you can judge if it's inhumane.
If one is inhumane, then the other one is inhumane aswell, and vice versa.


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## kingfarvito

bobtard said:


> Hmm.
> Ok, I'll breathe in some CO2 and judge if it's inhumane.
> I'll smash your head on the wall and you can judge if it's inhumane.
> If one is inhumane, then the other one is inhumane aswell, and vice versa.


ricky thats a <bad> argument and you know it and if im going ot die regardless I'd want it to be fast


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## LeilaNami

dark_abyss0 said:


> thank you for correcting me
> 
> and im not trying to get people to poison themselves I'm saying if you go take a breath of CO2 you'll realize that its a cruel way to kill feeders.I wonder how many of the American Veterinary Medical Association have tried breathing CO2? the experience is simalar to drowning


Have YOU tried breathing CO2? Just my .02

Edit: Reading on, I have found that you apparently have...Why?  It's like a man sniffing something they know is going to smell horrible (like their own farts). No offense men.


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## Hamburglar

I don't own any snakes anymore, but I found these abstracts to be good reading.  I was intrigued by the use of CO2 to euthanize.  Seems that the concentration of CO2 has a great deal to do with the distress of the animal.  There is even mention of some human test volunteers description.

http://www.nal.usda.gov/awic/pubs/Euthanasia07/rodents_rabbits_guinea.shtml


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## gambite

dark_abyss0 said:


> All of you that think CO2 is humane go put some vinegar and baking soda in a bottle and breath the gas or shake up a half full soda bottle and then breath from it. CO (carbon monoxide) is the gas that makes you fall asleep it gets absorbed the same as oxygen while CO2 (carbon dioxide) gives an effect simalar to drowning


I am sure someone has said this by now,  but do you know what you are talking about? CO2 is NOT the same as drowning, at all, and it VERY humane. Drowning is very traumatic, as you no longer have air to breath and have to fight both your breathing reflex and you survival reflex. While I have never drowned myself, I think it would also be painful to eventually inhale a load of water, since it is much thicker than air. Lungs are not meant to move something as heavy and viscous as wateraround, and so it would be a lot of strain on them in the few moments before whatever you are drowning dies. Also, ever try to hold your breath underwater? You start feeling reflexive convulsions, and it is not fun. 

On the other hand, when you inhale CO2, there is NO pain at all. You feel like you are breathing normally, because you ARE breathing normally. You just are not getting the oxygen your body needs. As your brain gets less and less oxygen, it will feel like you are getting very tired and you will eventually "fall asleep", for good. No pain, no liquids flooding the lungs, just falling asleep. If thats not humane, then maybe you need to try it yourself and tell us how horrible it is.


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## Aztek

And with the CO2 chambers the gas is slowly added not suddenly so as to KO the rodents first.


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## halfwaynowhere

well, i've been feeding either live, or f/t, so i haven't had to worry about this. My newest addition had been fed live, so i decided to stick with it, and offered her a live mouse today. She wrapped it, but not strong enough. The mouse was still alive and kicking after a minute or two, so i had to take it away and kill it for her... I felt awful doing it, but I knew my snake needed to eat (she was nearly starved at her old home), and couldn't let her get hurt. I dropped the mouse in a pillowcase and gave it a good thump on the wall. It was really quick, which was good. There was no suffering. Its not something I'd like to do again anytime soon, though...


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## xchondrox

I'd reccomend washing the pillow case before putting it back on the pillow. 

They tend to pee when they die, Just lookin out


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