# baby cornsnake



## Ariel (Oct 16, 2009)

Hi,

A few weekends ago my sister bought a baby blizzard corn snake. Heres a picture of the little cutie,  named Leviathan.







Well since we got him we've not been able to get him to eat, we've offered him pinkies as well as (yuck..) cut up pinkies.... He is about 10" long and just under 1/4" thick. What kind of feeders might you recommend? 

My mom wanted me to start this thread, IMO I don't think he's ready to eat because since he's white, you can see his waste, which he has yet to pass. He is in a medium sized kirtter keeper with peatmoss and reptibark, he has a hide, a stick for climbing and and waterbowl. The enclosure sits at just above 80 degrees. He's behavior seems perfectly normal.


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## ZoSoLp510 (Oct 16, 2009)

Do you know if he/she was previously fed frozen pinkies? If so try wetting the pink with warm water... this should trick the snake into thinking it's the same thawed pinks it's eaten before.

Another thing you can try is leaving a small pinky and the snake alone together in a deli container for a little while. 

When I had to switch my KSB over to live pinks, I combined both these methods, leaving a wet pinky in the deli cup with the snake and it worked like a charm. I did it once and from then I've barely been able to keep up with it's appetite!


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## Luiscifer (Oct 17, 2009)

I love corn snakes. Ive been trying to get a bliz but the few i have found havent looked as healthy as ur. Congrats


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## Ariel (Oct 17, 2009)

ZoSoLp510 said:


> Do you know if he/she was previously fed frozen pinkies? If so try wetting the pink with warm water... this should trick the snake into thinking it's the same thawed pinks it's eaten before.
> 
> Another thing you can try is leaving a small pinky and the snake alone together in a deli container for a little while.
> 
> When I had to switch my KSB over to live pinks, I combined both these methods, leaving a wet pinky in the deli cup with the snake and it worked like a charm. I did it once and from then I've barely been able to keep up with it's appetite!


he said they were feeding frozen pinkies, which we're trying to feed him (we don't feed live prey to our other snake either) I'll tell them about trying the delicup thing


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## Jmugleston (Oct 17, 2009)

When I used to keep and breed corns, I would do the following when it came time for feeding. To begin with, all were fed in brown paper bags (the ones used for school lunches). I'd get a thawed pinkie mouse and drop it in the bag. Then add the snake. The top of the bag was folded to keep them both in and then the bag was placed in the cage and left for a while. Typically in an hour or so (depending on how many baby snakes were being fed, I'd go back and let all the snakes out of their private dining bags. If any didn't eat, I'd try the same method the next day, only instead of a thawed mouse, i'd try a split brained pinkie. If that didn't work, I'd try a live pink, but I'd wash the pink first to try and remove some of the smell of the mother mouse. Typically it didn't take much more than this. I did have a few bloodred corns that were so picky that I eventually had to start them off on lizards and then move to mice. This was not the typical case though. 

Another thing, if your snake is "backed up" you may want to put it in a deli cup with water that comes only 1/2 up on the snake's body. You want to make sure that at rest, the snake's nostrils are above water. You don't want to drown it, just let it sit in some very shallow lukewarm water for 10 or 15 minutes. A quick soak typically helps them pass anything that is waiting to come out.


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## Ariel (Nov 5, 2009)

I' bumping this thread because we still haven't gotten him to eat despite our efforts, we had to force feed him some baby food today.


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## Jmugleston (Nov 5, 2009)

Ariel said:


> I' bumping this thread because we still haven't gotten him to eat despite our efforts, we had to force feed him some baby food today.


If desperate you could get a pinky pump from LLL reptile or Big Apple Herp Supply (I think Big Apple changed their name). That may make force feeding a bit easier. What have you tried to this point?


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## reverendsterlin (Nov 5, 2009)

Small corns not feeding are a pain. The easiest way I have found is to basically shove them down their throat. Push in with fingers as far as possible and use a rounded object (pen caps for me) to get it into the throat, then massage it down a ways. I seldom had to do this more than 2-3 times for any individual.


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## Ariel (Nov 5, 2009)

Jmugleston said:


> If desperate you could get a pinky pump from LLL reptile or Big Apple Herp Supply (I think Big Apple changed their name). That may make force feeding a bit easier. What have you tried to this point?


I think we're ok force feeding him with help from the reptile vet we work with, especially since it was just baby food, we might try force feeding pinkies if we have to.

 as for what we've tried, just about everything, cutting the pinkie, using different sized pinkies, soaking the pinkie in chicken broth, putting him and a pinkie in a deli cup, putting him and a pinkie in a bag. We haven't tried live pinkies yet, but none of the places around here sell them live anymore. (plus I don't think my mom wants to go through what she went through with our hognose, we tried feeding a live pinkie and Phoenix was terrified of it, and basically the little thing just screamed and screamed till it died and only then did Phoenix eat it. 



reverendsterlin said:


> Small corns not feeding are a pain. The easiest way I have found is to basically shove them down their throat. Push in with fingers as far as possible and use a rounded object (pen caps for me) to get it into the throat, then massage it down a ways. I seldom had to do this more than 2-3 times for any individual.


We're going to see whats the smallest size pinkie we can get, and then we'll probably try this, (with help from the vet)


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## Mack&Cass (Nov 5, 2009)

I agree, assisted feeding is the route you're gonna have to go down. Someone explained to me how to do it with balls, who have a different head shape than corns so I don't know if it would be the same, but I can tell you what she told me. She said that you hold the snake by the base of its head and it should start writhing around and opening its mouth trying to get away, when it opens its mouth you put the pinky in its mouth, and she said it should open its mouth even more to accomodate for there being something in there, and once it opens its mouth completely you put the mouse further into its mouth and then set the snake down and it should eat it. Like I said before, she was using this method on balls she was switching over from live to f/t and she said it worked beautifully. I've never dont it myself because I've never had problems with my snakes eating (in fact my two corns are my two craziest eaters), and I apologize if this doesn't apply at all, but short from soaking it in hot water or putting it on a heat lamp, that's all I've really heard. Good luck, Ariel.

-Cass


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## Ariel (Nov 6, 2009)

Thanks, and I guess the way my mom and the vet are going to do it is to take the pinkie and coat it in raw egg and pretty much force it down his throat. which just sounds...so....gross. I'll show this thread to my mom though, and maybe that'll give her some more ideas, though I don't think this'll be the first time she and the vet have had to force feed a snake. (vet is the reptile specialist, my mom is the vet tech reptile specialist)


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## Frédérick (Nov 6, 2009)

It might have been mentionned above, I haven't read the post in his entirety, but have you tried braining the pinkie you offer? it is a gross procedure for most, i admit, yet the smell of a pinkies cephalic liquid is irresistible for the vast majority of picky eaters. it has the benefit to be much less stressful than force feeding and many keepers use this method to train corns/snaes in general to switch from live to f/t mice. hope this helps!!

fred

p.s.: it haven't been mentionned as of yet, so i will explain what braining is the be more clear. you take a sharp object, say a little larger than a needle, and you thrust it behind the head of the pinkie, in the brain. make sure some liquid comes out, you might want to spread it a little around the head, and then you present it to the snake with a tong, grabbing by the tail, making a light circular motion to induce feeding response. this should trigger feeding behavior, i would not place the snake in a feeding bin if it is picky, this is more stressful than feeding in his enclosure, unless there is high chances of accidently getting the snake to eat aspen bedding in the process. if this method doesnt work out, only then i would consider force feeding IMHO. very sweet corn by the way


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## Frédérick (Nov 6, 2009)

ok one last thing! here's a nice forum dedicated to corn snakes, and there are plenty of threads addressing this issue, just use the search function and look up for stickys!! http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/

Fred


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## Ariel (Nov 6, 2009)

Frédérick said:


> It might have been mentionned above, I haven't read the post in his entirety, but have you tried braining the pinkie you offer? it is a gross procedure for most, i admit, yet the smell of a pinkies cephalic liquid is irresistible for the vast majority of picky eaters. it has the benefit to be much less stressful than force feeding and many keepers use this method to train corns/snaes in general to switch from live to f/t mice. hope this helps!!
> 
> fred
> 
> p.s.: it haven't been mentionned as of yet, so i will explain what braining is the be more clear. you take a sharp object, say a little larger than a needle, and you thrust it behind the head of the pinkie, in the brain. make sure some liquid comes out, you might want to spread it a little around the head, and then you present it to the snake with a tong, grabbing by the tail, making a light circular motion to induce feeding response. this should trigger feeding behavior, i would not place the snake in a feeding bin if it is picky, this is more stressful than feeding in his enclosure, unless there is high chances of accidently getting the snake to eat aspen bedding in the process. if this method doesnt work out, only then i would consider force feeding IMHO. very sweet corn by the way


I'm going to be honest, that sounds absolutely disgusting, but I guess I'll give it a try, hopefully it'll work. (yuck...) Thank you for the info, I appreciate it. 



Frédérick said:


> ok one last thing! here's a nice forum dedicated to corn snakes, and there are plenty of threads addressing this issue, just use the search function and look up for stickys!! http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/
> 
> Fred


Thanks for the link, I'll go ahead and check it out.


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## Teal (Nov 7, 2009)

*Seriously... try a live pinkie.

I had two baby balls... neither of them would TOUCH f/t no matter WHAT I did to it, the snake, or the environment. Would NOT touch it.

One baby ended up dying, because her digestive tract wasn't proper.

But the other one.. I tried force feeding f/t - she regurgitated it.

So finally, I bought a live pinkie.. put the snake and the pinkie in an empty tupperware container, put them in a dark, quiet room... and walked away.

Came back 30 minutes later.. she had eaten it.

I don't know if cornsnakes work like BPs for something like this... but that's what I did. *


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## Harmony67 (Nov 7, 2009)

I have two snakes that refuse to eat anything but live.  As long as you are feeding pinkies you can put a live one in the snakes container and if the snake doesn't just grab it and eat it cover the cage and leave it alone for a few hours.  Once you get some weight on the snake you can work on switching to f/t.


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## Ariel (Nov 8, 2009)

the only problem is that no one here offers live anymore...


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## Harmony67 (Nov 8, 2009)

When you thaw the pinkie do you use hot water or just let it sit out?

I thaw in hot water and give the prey to the snake very warm to the touch.  A friend of mine thaws prey overnight and feeds room temperature and has a yearling corn who won't eat.  When that snake lived at my house it ate with no problems.  

If it absolutely won't eat the dead pinks on it's own you can gently use the pinks head to push the snakes mouth open and push the prey into the mouth to see if it will eat it.  Sometimes they'll eat, sometimes you have to push it into their throat yourself.  (I don't recommend doing this except as a last resort.)


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## Frédérick (Nov 10, 2009)

good point Harmony, the warmth of the prey item likely plays a good role in feeding response! I too use hot water (not too hot tho!) and the mice feels warm to the touch when I offer it. I think of it this way; the snakes sees the warmth of the mice since they have infrared(?) vision, so the prey seems alive and fresh, then if you make a motion when offering the prey, it seems even more likely to the snake that it's alive, therefore they're seemingly in presence of goooood fresh meat, making it tastier indeed  good luck!


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## Ariel (Nov 23, 2009)

Aright, a little update. 

We still haven't gotten him to eat. We've tried defrosting in warm water, we found someone who sells live and tried that. Even with the smallest pinkie we can get (newborn) it just looks waaaaaay to big for him to eat. We've tried cutting it up, we've tried forcing him to eat it, we've even tried crickets (someone suggested it to my mom). He did fianlly poop a little today, and we've been soaking him a couple of days a week in warm water.

We're going to be trying braining soon, my moms been hesitant to do it, she had a terrible enough time stomaching cutting them up. 

Here is a picture of him next to a new born pinkie mouse


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## aracnophiliac (Nov 25, 2009)

I dont know How Close you are to a hatchery of any kind but see HERE that quail eggs are acceptable...Mabey this would be a better fit for the size of snake you are daeling with...Be sure not to feed to many....It says in the artical not to many as it is not good for it to eat to many...but if your having trouble getting it to eat this may be another route to go..Just to ensure some nutrition is making it in there....But What I would do If I were you, Is make good friends with your local mice breeder and have them call you the moment a new litter is born so that you can have Freshly born Babies this may trigger "a want to eat" instinct from your snake.And if all else fails Herp Vet


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## Teal (Nov 25, 2009)

*Well, the snake doesn't look skinny yet.. so that's good.

If you really start getting worried, you can force feed pinkie tails. They aren't the most nutritious, but it would be SOMETHING.

Hope the lil guy gets to eatin' soon! *


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## sharpfang (Nov 25, 2009)

*My what big Eyes you have...*

I prefer live feeding youngsters...

JJ


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## Ariel (Nov 27, 2009)

aracnophiliac said:


> I dont know How Close you are to a hatchery of any kind but see HERE that quail eggs are acceptable...Mabey this would be a better fit for the size of snake you are daeling with...Be sure not to feed to many....It says in the artical not to many as it is not good for it to eat to many...but if your having trouble getting it to eat this may be another route to go..Just to ensure some nutrition is making it in there....But What I would do If I were you, Is make good friends with your local mice breeder and have them call you the moment a new litter is born so that you can have Freshly born Babies this may trigger "a want to eat" instinct from your snake.And if all else fails Herp Vet


Thank you for the suggestions, even new borns have been way to big for him though.  We've thought about quail eggs, but we're having a hard time finding a place to get them. Oh and don't worry, my moms the reptile specialist vet tech, and we have two herp vets working at our clinic, we're all stumped as to what to do next, and they agree theres no way he could eat a new born pinkie. We may have to really start force feeding him.  



Teal said:


> *Well, the snake doesn't look skinny yet.. so that's good.
> 
> If you really start getting worried, you can force feed pinkie tails. They aren't the most nutritious, but it would be SOMETHING.
> 
> Hope the lil guy gets to eatin' soon! *


Thanks, we're cutting up pinkies now and when we get back we may try force feeding him.  And thank you, so do we, but for now, he's still active and drinking plenty, so I don't think I'm as worried as the rest of my family, I'm worried, but... he's not really showing signs of slowing down. 



sharpfang said:


> I prefer live feeding youngsters...
> 
> JJ


Perhaps you didn't read my earlier posts, even a new born was WAAAAAY to big for him, AND we already tried live. next time read the tread before posting, k?

---

Other than that, we tried forcefeeding a cricket which he spit out (I don't blame him, if they smell that bad, I don't want to even think of what they taste like  ) we had his fecal examined at the vet and there were no parasites (not that we were expecting any) but there was some mobile bacteria.

I just want to say thanks to everyone thats contributed to this thread, my mom and our vet both have a running thread on some other forums (VIN and VSPN) and we're getting a lot of good advice, so thank you, hopefully we'll get him to eat soon, and I'll be sure to keep updating this thread. We can have a party when he finally eats.


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## aracnophiliac (Nov 27, 2009)

Hey 

I have never tried this befor but my corn snake ate live crickets last night..he eats mice once a week but also went crazy for the crickets....I would also try worms..like super worms or butter worms somthing that squirms a lot


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## aracnophiliac (Nov 27, 2009)

Ariel

Mabey it would be easyier to suggest pray if you could post a pic of you holding the snake for size comparison


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## ErinKelley (Nov 27, 2009)

Imo you should still try live pinks.  I've raised many many baby corns, milks and kings, never were they too small to take the smallest pinks.  Honestly if that snake wanted it he could've swallowed the pink you have in the picture above, of course there's always the possibility of regurg but I bet he could swallow it.  I just think its really really rough on a snake to be force fed.

And if you havent tried a live pink in a delicup, overnight, somewhere dark and quiet, try that.  

I'm really sorry you're having such a bum time with your new baby.  Some of them you just can't save, maybe you should try another baby if possible, bring that one back to who you got it from??


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## Ariel (Nov 27, 2009)

aracnophiliac said:


> Hey
> 
> I have never tried this befor but my corn snake ate live crickets last night..he eats mice once a week but also went crazy for the crickets....I would also try worms..like super worms or butter worms somthing that squirms a lot


We'll keep trying crickets, so far no luck, but thank you. We also have some mealworms so maybe we could try those.



aracnophiliac said:


> Ariel
> 
> Mabey it would be easyier to suggest pray if you could post a pic of you holding the snake for size comparison


I've never liked doing reference with hands, because you can't know how big my hands are, if you scroll up, its a dark picture but thats him compared to a new born pinkie.



ErinKelley said:


> Imo you should still try live pinks.  I've raised many many baby corns, milks and kings, never were they too small to take the smallest pinks.  Honestly if that snake wanted it he could've swallowed the pink you have in the picture above, of course there's always the possibility of regurg but I bet he could swallow it.  I just think its really really rough on a snake to be force fed.


Trust me, there is NO WAY, maybe he's a runt, but a newborn pinkie 4x as wide as he was. We've had petstores, AND reptile vets tell us there is NO way he could eat it. Why continously buy these live mice only for them to wiggle in the enclosure for days before if finally dies?



ErinKelley said:


> And if you havent tried a live pink in a delicup, overnight, somewhere dark and quiet, try that.


we tried that 



ErinKelley said:


> I'm really sorry you're having such a bum time with your new baby.  Some of them you just can't save, maybe you should try another baby if possible, bring that one back to who you got it from??


We're hoping to save this one, we don't have the money to be putting down $60+ dollars on another blizzard corn. And we can't get ahold of the guy we got him from.


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## bksbuddha (Nov 27, 2009)

I'm so truly sorry that you're having so much trouble feeding your little bugger. He is stubborn, isn't he. It's definately important to find small enough newborns for him or he won't eat them. If you could only find one small enough, warming it up to 104F in a baggie immersed in hot water & then gently dropping it near him may do the trick. I know that you've tried many things & nothing has worked, but maybe it will. 
I was warming up my newborns for Squiggle ) she was 2 months & about the thickness of a pencil when I got her), but she still refused to eat them. I finally called the store & found out that it had to be warmed to 104 for her. It's a longshot, I'm sure, but I figured I'd share anyway. Hope your little one eats for you soon.


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## Ariel (Dec 6, 2009)

thought I'd go ahead and update this. We never got him to eat, he died sometime yesterday.


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## snappleWhiteTea (Dec 6, 2009)

wish i could get a cornsnake, but i don't trust food i don't raise for the most part.


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## Mack&Cass (Dec 14, 2009)

Ariel said:


> thought I'd go ahead and update this. We never got him to eat, he died sometime yesterday.


Wow Ariel, I'm so sorry. That's so strange, corns are generally really good eaters. Maybe you should try again with one that's a bit bigger? Also, I skimmed the thread but couldn't see if you had purchased it from a pet store or an expo? If you bought him from a pet store, maybe you should get your next one from an expo from a good, legit, honest vendor. They'll sell snakes that are eating.

Cass


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## Teal (Dec 14, 2009)

*She got him from an expo, I believe 

So sorry to hear that Ariel. I had a baby BP like that.. had two babies from the same clutch, one was a pig and one never did eat and I lost her  *


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## Ariel (Dec 14, 2009)

Mack&Cass said:


> Wow Ariel, I'm so sorry. That's so strange, corns are generally really good eaters. Maybe you should try again with one that's a bit bigger? Also, I skimmed the thread but couldn't see if you had purchased it from a pet store or an expo? If you bought him from a pet store, maybe you should get your next one from an expo from a good, legit, honest vendor. They'll sell snakes that are eating.
> 
> Cass


We got him from the expo. most of the LPS here have a "if they don't eat, we don't sell them" rule, of course petco and petsmart don't, but we've got some honest people working there, and they straight out tell us if they're eating or not, we even had one tell us to wait to purchase a recently arrived animal so it can get over the stress of shipping and get a chance to eat.

I do not think the man we got our corn from was very honest. He said that he'd eaten a 1-2 day old pinkie a week before we bought him, and I just can't believe it, especially after having seen the size difference between him and the baby pinkie.



Teal said:


> *She got him from an expo, I believe
> 
> So sorry to hear that Ariel. I had a baby BP like that.. had two babies from the same clutch, one was a pig and one never did eat and I lost her  *


It sucks, but it happens, not everyone is fit for survival. We think he must have been recently hatched when we bought him, and possibly ill.


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## Teal (Dec 14, 2009)

*Yeah, that's how I see it too... they aren't all meant to live.

Better luck next time.. *


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