# Confessions of a previous handling advocate



## Blueandbluer (Apr 10, 2015)

Since handling is one of our most hotly debated topics, I thought I'd share my story. I first started working with tarantulas when I was 10 years old, as a volunteer at the Academy of Natural Sciences here in Philly. They had a B smithi and a rosie or two, and we thought nothing of taking them out for the public, and allowing the kids to "pet" the spider's abdomens.

In my late teens I began working at the Zoo, first as a volunteer, then later as the facilitator for the Backyard Bugs exhibit. In my time there I expanded the spider collection immensely; we went from 2 spiders to about 10 that we exhibited on rotation. This was the late 90s and it wasn't so easy to get interesting species as it is now, so it was mostly rosies with a couple B smithies and E murinus. 

In my early years as facilitator, we still had a handling policy, as that's the way we'd always done things. Some of the spiders were more into it than others, but we never had a bite. I did know how fragile they were, but just tried to train my people to take precautions like holding over a table, only one child at once petting, etc. However, as I became active in the hobby community, I became aware of the anti-handling movement within the collectors.

One day I was handling the Zoo's big, beautiful B smithi. She was of indeterminate age but I'd known her for about 6 years, and she was already full grown when I started working with her. I was very fond of that lady. As I was giving my speech about them not being deadly, etc etc, a toddler escaped his mother's grasp and GRABBED my spider, pulling her off my hand. She fell onto my counter and bolted off the edge. Children and adults screamed and stampeded in multiple directions. I vaulted the counter and dove for the spider, who had suffered a split on her abdomen. It's a miracle no one stepped on her. I was able to bring her back to the other side of the counter and quickly patched her with superglue, and luckily she survived, but man, I was rattled. 

That night I cried. Hard. And I had a deep think, weighing the benefits of the close-up interaction with the children. I asked myself why I worked with these creatures. I came to the conclusion that it was out of love and respect for these fascinating little monsters. But how could I claim to love and respect them if I was putting them in literal mortal peril 20 times a day? 

I would never tell any one what they should and should not do. But my impassioned plea is that you take some time and think about WHY you are handling.  You like to look closeup? You like the feel of it? You like to look cool? Now weigh that against the life of the spider. If you are in this hobby for the love of these amazing animals, and weigh any of those reasons for handling against your spider's wellbeing, I think you'll find them coming up wanting. You can try and try to control all variables in your environment, but you can't possibly. And the most wild card of the bunch is actually the spider itself. It could be not feeling well. It could be in a mood. Something could startle it. You cannot know what might happen, and every time that spider is out you risk at best a bite, at worst a dead t.

Reactions: Like 14


----------



## scott99 (Apr 10, 2015)

Man, I hate thses kinds story when the spider get hurt. Wait I don't mean to a <butt>hole, but why was that toddler that close to you. You should have been more alter.


----------



## TheInv4sion (Apr 10, 2015)

THE DARK KNIGHT said:


> Man, I hate thses kinds story when the spider get hurt. Wait I don't mean to a <butt> hole, but why that toddler that close to you. You should have been more alter.


I agree with this. I think handling, if done with care, is not a problem. Regardless, handling in no way benefits the T and that's a fact

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Blueandbluer (Apr 10, 2015)

THE DARK KNIGHT said:


> Man, I hate thses kinds story when the spider get hurt. Wait I don't mean to a <butt> hole, but why that toddler that close to you. You should have been more alter.


It's the zoo. Kids are everywhere. This little dude was a couple feet away, but slipped his mom's grip -- and they can cover ground a lot faster than you'd think. 

That said, believe me, that night I replayed every second of the incident thinking over the millions of things I could have done differently, and that's why I came to the conclusion that it can just never be 100% safe. 

The good news is that after a molt she was good as new, but I carry the scar for her.

Reactions: Like 4


----------



## horanjp (Apr 10, 2015)

Fantastic post. Everyone should read. They are so very delicate...kudos to the people that arrive at no-handling conclusions without having to learn 'the hard way' :bruised:

Reactions: Like 4


----------



## SpiderInTheBath (Apr 10, 2015)

This is exactly my job now, and we have a "no handling from the public" policy. No petting abdomens, no holding, no standing within arm's reach. I handle the tarantula, and no one else. I keep the kids entertained by asking them to answer questions: "What do you think spiders are scared of?" etc. Inevitably we get "SHARKS!" and I can talk about the special hairs that make an air bubble in water, and finally someone says 'people' and we talk about what tarantulas taste like, etc etc. 

The amount of whinging from grown adults who would rather I get fired and let them hold a spider is astounding. Sorry, but that's a) not worth my job and b) not worth the risk. The number of times I've had to catch our hissing cockroaches because people are skittish idiots is more than I can count (I always have my hands under theirs regardless of age, for any animal). Parents are better, usually: I point out the risks of being allergic and remind them that there's only one way to find out if you're going to go into anaphylactic shock from a tarantula bite, and they tend to concede that a cool picture of their kid holding a tarantula isn't worth the risk.  

Failing that, "we're not insured" repeated ad nauseum finally gets the job done. 

I don't handle my own at home. 

Well done for handling that situation, though. I see people telling you what you shouldn't have done, but really -- being calm enough yourself to recover the spider and treat its injuries in a crowded, panicked situation isn't something everyone would manage. Especially given that time travel isn't an option.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Tim Benzedrine (Apr 10, 2015)

THE DARK KNIGHT said:


> Man, I hate thses kinds story when the spider get hurt. Wait I don't mean to a <butt> hole, but why that toddler that close to you. You should have been more alter.


Those things happens. Toddlers can be quick. And if that Psalmo ever manages to make a break for it, ending in disaster, better remember your words here and not take it too hard if you are told that you simply should have been "more alter(sic)"

Reactions: Like 4


----------



## Poec54 (Apr 10, 2015)

THE DARK KNIGHT said:


> why that toddler that close to you. You should have been more alter.


There are a lot of variables, and you can't control most of them: if an adult touches it to suddenly or too hard, or breathes on it, or coughs or sneezes on it, or for no apparent reason the spider runs off the person's hand and falls, or runs up his arm, even onto his shoulder or back.  Many things can go wrong, and the spider usually is the one who pays the price.  Handling is simply a bad idea and needs to be discouraged.  It's a holdover from the: _"Look at me everyone!  I'm holding a big hairy spider!"_

Reactions: Like 3 | Love 1


----------



## scott99 (Apr 10, 2015)

Blueandbluer said:


> It's the zoo. Kids are everywhere. This little dude was a couple feet away, but slipped his mom's grip -- and they can cover ground a lot faster than you'd think.
> 
> That said, believe me, that night I replayed every second of the incident thinking over the millions of things I could have done differently, and that's why I came to the conclusion that it can just never be 100% safe.
> 
> The good news is that after a molt she was good as new, but I carry the scar for her.


I have 6 brother and 4 of them are under the age of 9 I know what I'm talking about.


----------



## Poec54 (Apr 10, 2015)

THE DARK KNIGHT said:


> I have 6 brother and 4 of them are under the age of 9 I know what I'm talking about.



He's around a lot more kids than you have in your family.  You can control all of them all of the time?  

I think* he *knows what he's talking about.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## SpiderInTheBath (Apr 10, 2015)

THE DARK KNIGHT said:


> I have 6 brother and 4 of them are under the age of 9 I know what I'm talking about.


Having little brothers and actually working in an environment with a large audience/class of children are two very different things. There's a reason having children doesn't qualify you to be a teacher, after all.

Reactions: Like 4


----------



## scott99 (Apr 10, 2015)

you guys  are hypocrite, you said " don't handle tarantulas" but yet handle them yourself, I have seen lots pic of people holding their tarantula's but yet they say don't handle your tarantulas.

---------- Post added 04-10-2015 at 02:06 PM ----------




SpiderInTheBath said:


> Having little brothers and actually working in an environment with a large audience/class of children are two very different things. There's a reason having children doesn't qualify you to be a teacher, after all.


What I'm saying is that she should have been more alter, not control them. I'm sure you guys don't live in big families and so why are you making a judgment like that. Kids tent to be more bad and crazy when their at home.


----------



## lalberts9310 (Apr 10, 2015)

THE DARK KNIGHT said:


> you guys  are hypocrite, you said " don't handle tarantulas" but yet handle them yourself, I have seen lots pic of people holding their tarantula's but yet they say don't handle your tarantulas.
> 
> ---------- Post added 04-10-2015 at 02:06 PM ----------
> 
> ...


Who is saying don't handle tarantulas and then handles them? I can bet you Poec54 doesn't, I don't.. yes I used to, but everything mentioned above, the risks and consequences discouraged me a lot, I haven't since my 1st thread I posted on this forum, I was slammed pretty bad for it.. 

You told me you won't handle your P. Cam after I told you the risks or consequences of handling, now you act completely against the members here advising against handling and call us hypocrites? Where did you see the handling pictures? On google? Or on the members here who advice against handling personal profiles? And the consequences and risks are things that have been explained thousands of times and yet it baffles me how some people can't understand it? How difficult can it be? I was flamed for handling, once, I never did it again.. 

Is it really worth the risk? The life of an innocent scared little animal to satisfy ones selfish needs? I value the life of my spiders more than I would value the enjoyment of handling them...

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Angel Minkov (Apr 10, 2015)

How old are you? 10? Your opinion is disputed and you start spouting nonsense. Grow a spine.


----------



## lalberts9310 (Apr 10, 2015)

Angel Minkov said:


> How old are you? 10? Your opinion is disputed and you start spouting nonsense. Grow a spine.


Uh, I hope this wasn't directed at me??....


----------



## Tim Benzedrine (Apr 10, 2015)

I've handled three times. Not counting the arrival of slings when my Hapalopus decided to make a break for it and ran onto my hand, and later when my LP decided to perform a similar stunt when I popped the lid. I consider those to be times when the spiders were handling _me_ so my handling record goes thusly:

When I purchased my late rosea. The pet store employee was unwilling to transfer it from its enclosure. Even that was a risk, but I figured the risk was lower with me doing the job than somebody that was obviously uncomfortable with dealing with the task.
During an unfortunate incident where that rosea's cage was overturned.
Upon its death.

Not feeling like much of a hypocrite, personally.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## lalberts9310 (Apr 10, 2015)

THE DARK KNIGHT said:


> I'm not going to handle my p cam, it that just I hate it when people get mean about not handling. I'm not calling all of you hypocrites you are not a hypocrite, it just that some of these people are.


Oh, goody, now people are being mean again.. seriously? No one is being mean, good lord man

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Angel Minkov (Apr 10, 2015)

No of course haha It was directed at Batman.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## lalberts9310 (Apr 10, 2015)

Angel Minkov said:


> No of course haha It was directed at Batman.


 I almost thought I was in trouble there, lol


----------



## Angel Minkov (Apr 10, 2015)

You are safe... for now  LOL


----------



## Blueandbluer (Apr 10, 2015)

Ok, let's all just have a nice deep breathing session here before the thread gets shut down. I'm not sure I see anyone being mean. I certainly was not trying to start a fight; I just wanted to share my story explaining my own reasons for my non-handling decisions. 

I can say, though, that I am a little uncomfortable with anyone being called a hypocrite. Please let's stay civil, friends, and let's not have unfounded assertions like that flying around. 

For my part, the closest I've come to handling since the incident in my o.p. is when The Luggage arrived. She ran out of her shipping cup and up my hand. However, as Tim said, that was more her handling me than the other way around, and I got her off by rapping my hand on the side of her new deli cup enclosure.

Reactions: Like 5


----------



## lalberts9310 (Apr 10, 2015)

Blueandbluer said:


> Ok, let's all just have a nice deep breathing session here before the thread gets shut down. I'm not sure I see anyone being mean. I certainly was not trying to start a fight; I just wanted to share my story explaining my own reasons for my non-handling decisions.
> 
> I can say, though, that I am a little uncomfortable with anyone being called a hypocrite. Please let's stay civil, friends, and let's not have unfounded assertions like that flying around.
> 
> For my part, the closest I've come to handling since the incident in my o.p. is when The Luggage arrived. She ran out of her shipping cup and up my hand. However, as Tim said, that was more her handling me than the other way around, and I got her off by rapping my hand on the side of her new deli cup enclosure.


Yes well slings bolting onto your hands is unavoidable sometimes, and different than intentional handling, my one P. Cam sling once bolted up my arm onto my back and there was no stopping him, had to get hubby for help to get it of my back lol

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Blueandbluer (Apr 10, 2015)

lalberts9310 said:


> Yes well slings bolting onto your hands is unavoidable sometimes, and different than intentional handling, my one P. Cam sling once bolted up my arm onto my back and there was no stopping him, had to get hubby for help to get it of my back lol


LOL, you must've needed a stiff drink after that one!


----------



## lalberts9310 (Apr 10, 2015)

Blueandbluer said:


> LOL, you must've needed a stiff drink after that one!


 lol yeah, they are fast little buggers


----------



## TheInv4sion (Apr 10, 2015)

I believe in non-handling tbh, but that in no way means I don't handle my Ts. I handle them when I have to and its not always supposed to happen. The key is not making it some habit.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## SpiderInTheBath (Apr 10, 2015)

THE DARK KNIGHT said:


> you guys  are hypocrite, you said " don't handle tarantulas" but yet handle them yourself, I have seen lots pic of people holding their tarantula's but yet they say don't handle your tarantulas.
> 
> ---------- Post added 04-10-2015 at 02:06 PM ----------
> 
> ...


Raising your own children or having siblings is nowhere near the same as working with them in childcare, teaching, or as an entertainer, though. Your suggestion that they are 'crazier' at home is misguided; at home behaviour is different, yes, but that was my original point -- you know your brothers incredibly well, you probably live with them unless there's split custody at work, and having grown up with them their limitations, moods, and reactions are second nature to you. 

Now imagine you'd never met them before the moment you were in front of them, and they are being influenced not only by the other children present, but by the excitement of the event. You don't know what their attention span is like, how they react when they are scared, or how mature they are for their ages. With toddlers, you don't know how effectively they communicate, how well they can understand you when you speak to them, or what will set them off in a tantrum. You don't know if they are tactile, like the one in the OP, or not. You don't know what things are like at home, how they have been disciplined, or if they have ever been at all. 

The knowledge of one isn't transferable to the other. I wouldn't go around saying "I work with kids, so here's how you should raise yours". 

Also: you don't know a thing about my family.


----------



## scott99 (Apr 10, 2015)

SpiderInTheBath said:


> Raising your own children or having siblings is nowhere near the same as working with them in childcare, teaching, or as an entertainer, though. Your suggestion that they are 'crazier' at home is misguided; at home behaviour is different, yes, but that was my original point -- you know your brothers incredibly well, you probably live with them unless there's split custody at work, and having grown up with them their limitations, moods, and reactions are second nature to you.
> 
> Now imagine you'd never met them before the moment you were in front of them, and they are being influenced not only by the other children present, but by the excitement of the event. You don't know what their attention span is like, how they react when they are scared, or how mature they are for their ages. With toddlers, you don't know how effectively they communicate, how well they can understand you when you speak to them, or what will set them off in a tantrum. You don't know if they are tactile, like the one in the OP, or not. You don't know what things are like at home, how they have been disciplined, or if they have ever been at all.
> 
> ...


you have some good points, also you don't know a thing about my family.


----------



## SpiderInTheBath (Apr 10, 2015)

THE DARK KNIGHT said:


> you have some good points, also you don't know a thing about my family.


I know you have 6 brothers, 4 of whom are under 9...  

Seriously though, it's easy to be distracted even with just a few kids present. We're all only human, and the OP has more than learned from this situation it sounds like. You can only do your best. Today I was at a petting zoo and had our Rainbow Boa out with me. She's not too big, but quite strong -- and so I elected not to permit people to put her over their shoulders/around their neck. Not because she could do any damage, but because she could give someone a fright and that would create a panicked situation. 

It would have been so easy to give in to some who asked, though. So many people insisted they weren't easily startled, etc etc. You make decisions, and hope they're the right ones. That's all you can do.

Reactions: Like 3


----------



## TsunamiSpike (Apr 10, 2015)

Right, ignoring the whole who's family is bigger and what have you and going back to the OP... Very honest of you to give your account on that situation, nicely handled as well (no pun intended). I used to like the idea of handling tarantulas, more out of a morbid curiosity than anything else (the assumption that everyone does it to look cool grinds on me), but despite that I've handled them a mere 3 times...well 4 technically. Handled our Rosie once, our juvie B. Albo when we first got her and again a couple of months later. The thing that made me realise it's not the best idea? She got spooked as she was stepping into my other halves hand and bolted down my arm. Now, nothing happened and no harm to the T or myself but the speed and unpredictability was enough to put away any lingering doubt of which side of the handling debate I fall on. It's just not worth it. 

The other time was my GBB sling a couple of days ago, but that's only because she'd passed so doesn't really count.

Reactions: Like 4


----------



## cold blood (Apr 10, 2015)

Well blue, my original interest also came while I was working at the Milwaukee County Zoo.   Being into fish as I am (and reptiles, really), I spent a lot of time in the aquarium and reptile building and got to know the keepers in that building quite well.   One of them was the person that educated me on, and sparked my interest in t's, despite being quite arachnophobic at the time.    

He was old school and handled the t's, both privately and publicly.  One day we were doing an exhibit together at Summerfest (huge music/beer festival here in Milwaukee) for the zoo.  He brought his old t with, as he often did.   Well on this fateful day, we had a table FULL of children.  He was answering questions while I had a snake on the other side of the table that I was showing.  Despite his diligence, as he briefly turned to talk to someone, the t spooked and quickly ran off the table, splitting its abdomen upon impact with the concrete.   The t had NO chance and it all happened in an instant with a spider known for being calm and slow moving (I believe it was A. chalcodes).   I watched my keeper friend weep at the loss of his longtime "friend".   After this he stopped bringing t's to things like this.

That incident had a profound effect on me, both because of his sad reaction from the keeper and because it clearly illustrated to me just how fragile, unpredictable and ill suited they are for handling, especially in a busy situation like a demonstration where your attention simply cannot ever be 100%.   A few years later, when I rescued my first t, I handled it once and a second time when she was being handled by someone else, and that was just to put her back.   I adopted a no handling policy very quickly, and 15 years later and over 60 spiders later I still do not handle any of them.   Sure, I may have one walk across me or sit on me briefly as part of an unscheduled "handling" when re-housing, but I don't count that as handling as my motivation is not handling and getting it where it needs to go is the priority....This has happened a couple times, but truthfully 99% of re-houses have no physical contact with me, and that's how I feel it should be.

With handling t's, you have nothing to gain, and everything to lose...just not worth it IMO, not even a little bit.:wink:

Reactions: Like 7


----------



## Blueandbluer (Apr 10, 2015)

cold blood said:


> Well blue, my original interest also came while I was working at the Milwaukee County Zoo.   Being into fish as I am (and reptiles, really), I spent a lot of time in the aquarium and reptile building and got to know the keepers in that building quite well.   One of them was the person that educated me on, and sparked my interest in t's, despite being quite arachnophobic at the time.
> 
> He was old school and handled the t's, both privately and publicly.  One day we were doing an exhibit together at Summerfest (huge music/beer festival here in Milwaukee) for the zoo.  He brought his old t with, as he often did.   Well on this fateful day, we had a table FULL of children.  He was answering questions while I had a snake on the other side of the table that I was showing.  Despite his diligence, as he briefly turned to talk to someone, the t spooked and quickly ran off the table, splitting its abdomen upon impact with the concrete.   The t had NO chance and it all happened in an instant with a spider known for being calm and slow moving (I believe it was A. chalcodes).   I watched my keeper friend weep at the loss of his longtime "friend".   After this he stopped bringing t's to things like this.
> 
> ...


Thank you for sharing that, cold blood. That story parallels mine in so many ways, but with an even more tragic ending. I can only imagine what your friend felt. Working with these critters day in and day out over years and years, you really begin to feel responsible for them. That feeling that you FAILED in that task of keeping them safe and well is absolutely soul-crushing. I hope to never feel that again, which is why I likely OVER prepare at this point whenever I open my T's enclosure.

Reactions: Like 3


----------



## viper69 (Apr 11, 2015)

I think the OP's T was EXTREMELY lucky!!

The OP also wrote s/he would never tell someone else what to do.  I wonder if the OP would let someone handle/pet fish out of water then too? Or if the OP would "tell them what to do".


----------



## Blueandbluer (Apr 11, 2015)

viper69 said:


> I think the OP's T was EXTREMELY lucky!!
> 
> The OP also wrote s/he would never tell someone else what to do.  I wonder if the OP would let someone handle/pet fish out of water then too? Or if the OP would "tell them what to do".


SHE would recommend against it, but that's as far as it goes.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Angel Minkov (Apr 11, 2015)

That's why I only hold slings with small abdomens if I have to do a "display" for a curious family member and I do it with my hand directly above my bed. Holding big Ts is an absolute NO for me.


----------



## gobey (Apr 11, 2015)

Holding slings makes me nervous for them too. They could squish so easily. I have big thumbs.

I had my new B. smithi sling crawl onto me as I put it into a new home the other day. It tried to burrow in my arm hair. Getting it out safely was a bit of a challenge.

I don't want to touch my tarantulas anymore.

They don't want to touch me either.

I learned that when I saw my late avicularia jump and poo at me upon my handling attempts way back when. I could tell it terrified him.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## 8LegsMomWannabe (Apr 11, 2015)

Angel Minkov said:


> That's why I only hold slings with small abdomens if I have to do a "display" for a curious family member and I do it with my hand directly above my bed. Holding big Ts is an absolute NO for me.


This may be a stupid question, but why are you okay with small abdomens but not larger ones?  Wouldn't the impact of a small abdomen hitting a surface be as bad or worse than the impact of a larger abdomen?


----------



## Angel Minkov (Apr 11, 2015)

8LegsMomWannabe said:


> This may be a stupid question, but why are you okay with small abdomens but not larger ones?  Wouldn't the impact of a small abdomen hitting a surface be as bad or worse than the impact of a larger abdomen?


No. The fatter the abdomen, the more stretched the exoskeleton is and the easier it is to get an injury from a fall.


----------



## Tim Benzedrine (Apr 11, 2015)

Weight is a factor as well.  The bigger the T, the harder it falls, to paraphrase an old adage.


----------



## Blueandbluer (Apr 11, 2015)

8LegsMomWannabe said:


> This may be a stupid question, but why are you okay with small abdomens but not larger ones?  Wouldn't the impact of a small abdomen hitting a surface be as bad or worse than the impact of a larger abdomen?


Imagine a water balloon. If you fill the water balloon only 1/3 full and throw it, what happens? It bounces off little Johnny's forehead, and remains intact. Now, fill that same balloon as full as you can, so the rubber is stretched and thin, and toss it at little Johnny with the same force. SPLAT. 

I'm sure you can extrapolate from there. 

That said, I wouldn't hold slings either, just because a) they're so dang fast and b) so small that they could disappear anywhere, which is really no safer for them than the potential for splats are for adults. 

But, as always, YMMV.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Angel Minkov (Apr 11, 2015)

Can't splat when my hand is directly above a soft surface. I never hold any of my Ts higher than 5 cm. from a surface, because I remember losing a G. pulchra juvie because I accidentally knocked its enclosure on the floor and ruptured its abdomen (( Ever since that Im afraid of handling.


----------



## 8LegsMomWannabe (Apr 11, 2015)

Ah, okay, that makes sense.  I hadn't thought about the stretch exoskeleton factor, but after I posted I thought of the weight hing being a possible issue.  

As for my opinion on handling, well I haven't really formed one yet.  I know some folks are proponents while others are dead set against it.  All I can say right now is that if I handle, I'll be minimizing risks as much as possible (including eliminating as many uncontrollable variables as I can such as not handling around lots of people or where I am easily distracted).  

But the argument is there that you still can't eliminate all risks if you handle, and it's a good point,


----------



## Yanose (Apr 11, 2015)

ok here we go I my self seldom if ever handle my Ts I once had a A. versicolor that was very mello and did not mind being held. However when you did hold her she 
would walk on you hand as if she were stepping in something disgusting that kinda told the tale for me. However I know my first interest in Tarantulas came from an 
watching a person that came to our school handling tarantulas and allowing us kids to interact with them. How many of you can say the same thing quite a few I bet I guess what I am trying to say is do not be so quick to flame people for showing off their Ts if we want the hobby to grow and continue we will need to get young folks
interested in Tarantulas and I fear that handling them to show that there is no reason to be afraid is part of that. Basically what I am saying is as for most things in life there is a time and place.


----------



## cold blood (Apr 11, 2015)

Yanose said:


> what I am trying to say is do not be so quick to flame people for showing off their Ts


See what I did, I am showing off my t, WITHOUT handling.   Handling does not improve your picture of the t, in fact I'd argue that a hand in the pic makes it a less interesting pic.   Look at the pic thread, most of the people with the best pics, don't have a single one of them being handled...and the pics are still utterly fantastic.

Showing off your t, and handling are two vastly different things that are completely unrelated IMO.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## gobey (Apr 11, 2015)

cold blood said:


> See what I did, I am showing off my t, WITHOUT handling.   Handling does not improve your picture of the t, in fact I'd argue that a hand in the pic makes it a less interesting pic.   Look at the pic thread, most of the people with the best pics, don't have a single one of them being handled...and the pics are still utterly fantastic.
> 
> Showing off your t, and handling are two vastly different things that are completely unrelated IMO.


What's the bottom one!?


----------



## baijuncheng (Apr 11, 2015)

My largest T is the one I have had the longest, a G. rosea. I do handle it from time to time, but for the most part I am happy to just watch and see what it is doing (usually nothing). Roses are often touted as being very docile and easy to handle, but as I have read countless times and also experienced this is not always the case. A few months ago I couldn't get near mine. The slightest movement would evoke a defensive posture so I left it alone. It has calmed down since, and is now easy to handle again but I keep the handling to a minimum. I wouldn't want it on me if it decided to have another mood swing.


----------



## awiec (Apr 12, 2015)

gobey said:


> What's the bottom one!?


Say hello to one of the best genus out there, Pamphobeteus

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## gobey (Apr 12, 2015)

awiec said:


> Say hello to one of the best genus out there, Pamphobeteus


That carapace!!!! Looks like a baboon!!!

Oy they're so pricey... But I'll need a large hungry terrestrial one day to replace my poor LP that passed. I was thinking genic or just bite the $ bullet and go Pamphobetus.

I now think Pamphobetus.

Which species is that?

There's so many. I have to research them.

This is a long time in the future anyways.



While on large terrestrials, my deceased LP, and handling. That tarantula was the only one I've almost been bitten by. Way back when after it's first molt I was changing it's water dish and it bolted out of its hide with all speed only to stop just short of my fingers.

It seemed to realize I wasn't food and hightailed it back.

Again. I knew I'd not be touching him.

Not to mention he was the first tarantula to hair me.

Not fun.


----------



## awiec (Apr 12, 2015)

gobey said:


> That carapace!!!! Looks like a baboon!!!
> 
> Oy they're so pricey... But I'll need a large hungry terrestrial one day to replace my poor LP that passed. I was thinking genic or just bite the $ bullet and go Pamphobetus.
> 
> ...


I think CB has nigricolor, I have sp Platyomma myself, which both are pretty cheap as I got mine for $30. Phormics are basically the same thing but live on islands/different regions and are generally cheaper, same attitude, size and care from what I've seen from mine.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## cold blood (Apr 12, 2015)

awiec said:


> I think CB has nigricolor, I have sp Platyomma myself, which both are pretty cheap as I got mine for $30. Phormics are basically the same thing but live on islands/different regions and are generally cheaper, same attitude, size and care from what I've seen from mine.


Yup Ashley, its a P. nigricolor.   

Their carapaces are nearly as spectacular as their appetites Goby.   And while even the cheaper Pamphobetus sp. tend to be fairly expensive, if you really keep your eyes peeled there are deals out there....like awiec, I found mine for $30...I shoulda bought more.

Phormics are their equals when it comes to dinner time, but there are certain things about the Pamphs that make them look a little better.   They basically change so much as they grow (with huge gainer per molt) that they almost look like different t's with each one.   Until just yesterday, mine's been jet black with hot pink accents on the carapace and glistening from the jet black femurs....now its this gorgeous dark brown, first time I've seen that color from it....and the nigricolor, at least mine, never flicks and has never thrown me a threat pose and she's about 5"(it does flee).  The 2 P. cancerides are about  3", and regularly throw threat poses and occasionally flick hairs when they notice me.

Phormics and Pamphs are classic thread hi-jacking genra.:wink:   I swear it happened organically :laugh:

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## gobey (Apr 12, 2015)

cold blood said:


> Yup Ashley, its a P. nigricolor.
> 
> Their carapaces are nearly as spectacular as their appetites Goby.   And while even the cheaper Pamphobetus sp. tend to be fairly expensive, if you really keep your eyes peeled there are deals out there....like awiec, I found mine for $30...I shoulda bought more.
> 
> ...


I'd rather the less defensive type. I have enough skittish OWs and a grouchy Grammostola to to keep me on my toes.

That picture is too captivating! 

I'd been thinking geniculata, G. pulchripres, or a Pamphobetus.

And you pretty much sold me here.



Add it to the checklist.



The ever growing checklist

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## awiec (Apr 12, 2015)

cold blood said:


> Yup Ashley, its a P. nigricolor.
> 
> Their carapaces are nearly as spectacular as their appetites Goby.   And while even the cheaper Pamphobetus sp. tend to be fairly expensive, if you really keep your eyes peeled there are deals out there....like awiec, I found mine for $30...I shoulda bought more.
> 
> ...


While my phormic and pamph keep up with each other size wise, the pamph is just overall more bold and more bulky, the phormic prefers just to retreat by jumping backwards (he books it pretty fast too) but still has the famous South American appetite.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Blueandbluer (Apr 12, 2015)

cold blood said:


> Phormics and Pamphs are classic thread hi-jacking genra.:wink:   I swear it happened organically :laugh:


That's alright, the thread needed a little hijacking. :laugh:

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## gobey (Apr 12, 2015)

awiec said:


> While my phormic and pamph keep up with each other size wise, the pamph is just overall more bold and more bulky, the phormic prefers just to retreat by jumping backwards (he books it pretty fast too) but still has the famous South American appetite.


Oh yeah... Pamphobetus it is then


On topic...

I will not touch my Pamphobetus


----------



## awiec (Apr 12, 2015)

gobey said:


> Oh yeah... Pamphobetus it is then
> 
> 
> On topic...
> ...


Unless you don't like fingers that is, usually once mine figures out there is no food it calms down

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## MrsHaas (Apr 12, 2015)

I've never had a tragedy but I did used to handle my Ts. I now don't, just bc ur never sure... But I'm not going to hate on anyone that does... It's a personal preference and an individual choice.


----------



## Ellenantula (Apr 12, 2015)

MrsHaas said:


> I've never had a tragedy but I did used to handle my Ts. I now don't, just bc ur never sure... But I'm not going to hate on anyone that does... It's a personal preference and an individual choice.


I can't judge much either on it.
I am anti-handling now, but can't deny I only got my first T to hold her.  
I get it now, they don't like it, it's dangerous (usually to the T but sometimes to us too), no benefit, etc..
But I hope newbie handlers will get it out of their system quickly and move on to more responsible husbandry.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## gobey (Apr 12, 2015)

Ellenantula said:


> I can't judge much either on it.
> I am anti-handling now, but can't deny I only got my first T to hold her.
> I get it now, they don't like it, it's dangerous (usually to the T but sometimes to us too), no benefit, etc..
> But I hope newbie handlers will get it out of their system quickly and move on to more responsible husbandry.


That's exactly how I put it. I "got it out of my system."

Especially after being pooped on/at by my poor Avic more than once. And when he managed to jump off me and go crawling under the bed. And one time my porteri crawled up my futon and then she absolutely wouldn't go back in her enclosure. When she did she wouldn't stop crawling everywhere. I disturbed something in her.

It took less than 2 weeks for me to never touch one again.

On purpose at least. I've had 2 Brachypelma slings crawl on me now during unpacking/rehousing. Which as I stated I don't like for the Ts sake either. Slings scramble real quick.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Ellenantula (Apr 12, 2015)

gobey said:


> On purpose at least. I've had 2 Brachypelma slings crawl on me now during unpacking/rehousing. Which as I stated I don't like for the Ts sake either. Slings scramble real quick.


This is me.  I have a couple slings I cannot feed without an escape, or at least a few laps around my hands.  One even made it to the floor and half-way across the room last week.  
Definitely no more deliberate handlings, the unintended handlings are enough, I worry I will lose one.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## gobey (Apr 12, 2015)

Ellenantula said:


> This is me.  I have a couple slings I cannot feed without an escape, or at least a few laps around my hands.  One even made it to the floor and half-way across the room last week.
> Definitely no more deliberate handlings, the unintended handlings are enough, I worry I will lose one.


I actually gave away 2 OBT slings because I just couldn't take the constant escape attempts anymore. And there's a T I don't want to handle at all for fun or otherwise. Whoever sends OBTs as freebies without asking should be subject to bite report tests.

Luckily my Brachypelma slings seem to all want to stay in their cups when lids are off.


----------



## Ellenantula (Apr 12, 2015)

gobey said:


> Whoever sends OBTs as freebies without asking should be subject to bite report tests.


This is me too. 
I didn't select/choose my escape artist slings either.  I would prefer if sellers would consider whole order when deciding which slings to include.
I am considering parting with them.  This hobby is supposed to be fun, not fraught with sling escape worries.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## gobey (Apr 12, 2015)

Ellenantula said:


> This is me too.
> I didn't select/choose my escape artist slings either.  I would prefer if sellers would consider whole order when deciding which slings to include.
> I am considering parting with them.  This hobby is supposed to be fun, not fraught with sling escape worries.


I'm not even opposed to OW tarantulas. I even have an adult female OBT. She however is calm, shy, and is in her permanent home. Maybe I'll put her in a new one someday for aesthetic reasons.

But upon opening the latch... Or heck even coming close to her enclosure she scoots into her hide and lets you do what you need to with the long tongs or turkey baster (how I fill her water)

These slings, even though they were quite fascinating. Had escape on the mind every single time I interacted with them. The only tarantula I ever had bolt out of an enclosure and escape was an OBT sling. It lost a leg in the retrieval.

I loved watching them web and molt. But like you said maintenance was stressful.

Raising them certainly takes some serious caution and precision.

Not that I'm not precise my other Ts. Especially my OWs. But they all prefer to hide when I'm around. Not jail break.

And I knew those OBTs (which grow real quick) would only turn from escape happy to fight happy in another few molts.

So I found a good home with a breeder/dealer for them.

I couldn't fathom that I can handle the adults better. Something about having more space and the tarantula being easier to see I guess.

I was recently offered a couple of 3 inch OBTs as freebies lol. I guess everyone else wants to give theirs away too!!! XD

This person at least made the offer and let me refuse. Instead of a surprise.

The funny part was it was still almost against my instinct to refuse 2 free 3" tarantulas!!!

But 1 OBT is enough I've decided. Especially since she's a beautiful female.


----------



## Ellenantula (Apr 12, 2015)

Well, my 2 worst escape artists aren't OBTs -- one is worse than an OBT and one is slightly less advanced than an OBT.
Basically, if you ever see an offer of a surprise grab bag offer and put it in your cart thinking "cool, can't wait to see what I get".....
Don't.
I will eventually re-home them.  Because I read somewhere slings eventually grow up and become even bigger!

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## gobey (Apr 12, 2015)

Ellenantula said:


> Well, my 2 worst escape artists aren't OBTs -- one is worse than an OBT and one is slightly less advanced than an OBT.
> Basically, if you ever see an offer of a surprise grab bag offer and put it in your cart thinking "cool, can't wait to see what I get".....
> Don't.
> I will eventually re-home them.  Because I read somewhere slings eventually grow up and become even bigger!


Do we get to find out what they are? Lol

Or are they still a mystery to you? XD


----------



## Ellenantula (Apr 12, 2015)

gobey said:


> Do we get to find out what they are? Lol
> 
> Or are they still a mystery to you? XD


Well, since I figured I wouldn't be keeping them for the long haul, it seemed irrelevant what they were.
But:

Chilobrachys fimbriatus (Indian Violet)
Ephebopus murinus (Skeleton Tarantula)

I had to google them before opening their shipping vials, you know, to prepare a proper home for each.  
Both seem faster than anything else I have, except perhaps the P cambri.
So far, I have spent more time capturing them than anything else.  They eat well, but it is stressful to feed them due to the bolting.

I am open to suggestions -- convince me these are good Ts and will turn out less bolty when adults.
I am so afraid one of them will escape and I won't be able to find it and it will dessicate, starve or the cats or a house spider will kill them.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Blueandbluer (Apr 12, 2015)

Ellenantula said:


> Well, since I figured I wouldn't be keeping them for the long haul, it seemed irrelevant what they were.
> But:
> 
> Chilobrachys fimbriatus (Indian Violet)
> ...


Aww, I have a soft spot for E murinus; I had two in my zoo days. However, I cannot tell you that they chill... Mine were named Zoe and Zelda. Zelda wasn't too bad but she turned out to be a he... Hooked out and became very rangy. Nearly escaped a bunch of times, not by bolting but just by persistence and hanging out as close to the lid as he could manage. Zoe, on the other hand, was born with the personality of an OBT. There was nothing she wouldn't try to bite, and she was fast fast fast.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Ellenantula (Apr 12, 2015)

Blueandbluer said:


> Aww, I have a soft spot for E murinus; I had two in my zoo days. However, I cannot tell you that they chill... Mine were named Zoe and Zelda. Zelda wasn't too bad but she turned out to be a he... Hooked out and became very rangy. Nearly escaped a bunch of times, not by bolting but just by persistence and hanging out as close to the lid as he could manage. Zoe, on the other hand, was born with the personality of an OBT. There was nothing she wouldn't try to bite, and she was fast fast fast.


(deep sigh)  Yeah, sorta what I figured.  I don't think this is the T for me.
Although I am getting better and better at catching escapees.  So.... yanno, experience is definitely being gained.
But I actually told the Chilobrachys fimbriatus last night, after feeding an appropriate sized post-pinhead roach, and watching him full body hug his new find, looking all happy and eating.... I just held his cup up to eye level and told him, "I think I really hate you."  And then I felt guilty.  I don't hate him, I just hate recapturing him at every single feeding time. And I hate worrying his next escape won't end well.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Blueandbluer (Apr 12, 2015)

Ellenantula said:


> (deep sigh)  Yeah, sorta what I figured.  I don't think this is the T for me.
> Although I am getting better and better at catching escapees.  So.... yanno, experience is definitely being gained.
> But I actually told the Chilobrachys fimbriatus last night, after feeding an appropriate sized post-pinhead roach, and watching him full body hug his new find, looking all happy and eating.... I just held his cup up to eye level and told him, "I think I really hate you."  And then I felt guilty.  I don't hate him, I just hate recapturing him at every single feeding time. And I hate worrying his next escape won't end well.


I don't blame you; that'd drive me nuts too. Also, I'm guessing his feelings weren't too hurt.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## gobey (Apr 12, 2015)

Ellenantula said:


> (deep sigh)  Yeah, sorta what I figured.  I don't think this is the T for me.
> Although I am getting better and better at catching escapees.  So.... yanno, experience is definitely being gained.
> But I actually told the Chilobrachys fimbriatus last night, after feeding an appropriate sized post-pinhead roach, and watching him full body hug his new find, looking all happy and eating.... I just held his cup up to eye level and told him, "I think I really hate you."  And then I felt guilty.  I don't hate him, I just hate recapturing him at every single feeding time. And I hate worrying his next escape won't end well.


He probably hates you too... So it's ok.


Anyways. If they make you feel that way. Than you're doing the right thing finding someone to take them. And in the meantime you're getting valuable experience. That's how I felt with my little OBTs.

They were my reluctant problem children lol. I finally found somebody I trusted to give them to. It's harder to do when it's a species that you're getting rid of not because you have too many, but instead because it's an advanced tarantula species. You need to make sure it's going to a knowledgeable hobbyist.

But while I had them I certainly took my best care of them and learned a lot from the little guys. It wasn't that I couldn't handle them. I would've kept and raised them both if I really had to. I just wasn't enjoying interacting with them. Which isn't good for them or myself. 

It was a good learning experience all around though. I witnessed unique sling behavior, honed technique for escape happy spiders with maintenance, and contained my first bolting T. Even if it was little.

I also learned how to ship a fast OW spiderling.

You'll come out on top and your tarantulas will find somebody who thinks they're the best things ever.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Tim Benzedrine (Apr 12, 2015)

Blueandbluer said:


> Aww, I have a soft spot for E murinus;


How's that for a coincidence? Apparently, Ellie has a soft spot for her OBT...

(Didn't think I was gonna leave that totally be, did you Ellie?  )


----------



## Medusa (Apr 13, 2015)

Ellenantula said:


> :
> 
> Chilobrachys fimbriatus (Indian Violet)
> Ephebopus murinus (Skeleton Tarantula)
> ...


How are you keeping them? Mine are both burrowers in several inches of substrate and stay tucked in while I feed, water, and do other maintenance. I do that stuff during day time in a cooler area and have never had either bolt. I even take an extra precaution of gently placing a cotton ball over the entrance to the burrow so they don't come flying out, and remove the cotton when I'm done.


----------



## Ellenantula (Apr 13, 2015)

Medusa said:


> How are you keeping them? Mine are both burrowers in several inches of substrate and stay tucked in while I feed, water, and do other maintenance. I do that stuff during day time in a cooler area and have never had either bolt. I even take an extra precaution of gently placing a cotton ball over the entrance to the burrow so they don't come flying out, and remove the cotton when I'm done.


They both have deep enough substrate (esp for their sizes) and I started them each a nice burrow.

Chilobrachys fimbriatus uses his burrow and enlarged it nicely.  He has webbed like crazy too. He is almost always in his burrow, but when I crack the lid, it's like he's conditioned that the lid opening means escape or food.  I guess he just goes crazy -- anyway he can be at lid before I barely get it cracked. I am not an expert, and fully acknowledge someone else may be able to feed him without escapes -- it is definitely just my inexperience.   
But, for me, I can't sneak lid open quietly enough much less get a cotton ball to his burrow opening before he reaches the lid.  He comes barreling out lightning speed to be so tiny!  He's probably 1/2 inch, possible even a little smaller than that. His rump does have a hint of plum coloring (I originally thought he was all jet black).  Oh, I neglected to mention that after last recapture, I did swap out lids on the bugger -- now he has a lid with a hole that is corked.  I am hopeful to drop in food next time and maybe avoid an escape. (fingers crossed)

Ephebopus murinus never uses his burrow, tends to sit near his moss, on top of substrate, so he is sorta disguised.  He did find his burrow, I saw him run in it once, but he is out 99% of time.  I feel confident when he finally decides to go into his burrow, it will be a sign of pre-molt.  Last feeding he stayed put while I cracked the lid on opposite side from him, and I successfully dropped in a beheaded mealworm without an escape. Maybe he will stop being a bolter.  He's the larger of the slings - probably 1.25" maybe even a tad bigger.

Thanks for assisting, I am always eager to learn new ways of handling these sorts of issues.


----------

