# Attention when buying Theraphosa



## Fran (Jan 28, 2011)

Sadly, no matter the effort some of us put into labeling  the right name with the right spider, seems like some people still either dont care or dont stay tuned to the "news" ...or simply is doing it to make the quick buck.


People is still labeling what is Theraphosa Sp. burgundy (now named stirmi) as *Theraphosa blondi*.

Request pictures before purchasing.  *Theraphosa blondi *are very very rare stock in the US hobby nowadays, and less than a handfull of people have some of them, even less for sale.

PS: In the last  years to my knowledge only  Paul Becker and Vitaliy (tarantulahomes) brought true Blondi.  This year Ken the bug guy broguth some too.


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## Johnny1320 (Jan 28, 2011)

Why are they so rare?  Are they very difficult to breed?  I see WC advertised pretty often and after reading on here I always wonder how legit they are.


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## Fran (Jan 28, 2011)

The last time that Blondi was bred in the hobby,  that  I know off , was in 07.

Then only 3 people have  imported Blondi slings in October-November 2010 and January 2011.


The 99% of the times you see advertized Theraphosa blondi,* it is not*.


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## EndlessForms (Jan 28, 2011)

haha yeah but there's such a subtle difference between T. blondi and stirmi. i mean as far as having a giant, brown tarantula goes, either species would work. isn't one of the main differences like the hairs on the tibia or something? unless you want to have a true 'goliath bird eater' i would just as soon buy a stirmi. i don't see why someone would try to deceive someone into thinking they have one species when they actually have another [unless they didn't no how to tell]...they look so similar that, personally, i wouldn't really care which species it was [although i'd like to know but i would prefer one or the other] why does everyone say 'T. blondi' when they know it's a stirmi? what's wrong with Theraphosa stirmi?!?


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## Fran (Jan 28, 2011)

arachnophile223 said:


> haha yeah but there's such a subtle difference between T. blondi and stirmi. i mean as far as having a giant, brown tarantula goes, either species would work. isn't one of the main differences like the hairs on the tibia or something? unless you want to have a true 'goliath bird eater' i would just as soon buy a stirmi. i don't see why someone would try to deceive someone into thinking they have one species when they actually have another [unless they didn't no how to tell]...they look so similar that, personally, i wouldn't really care which species it was [although i'd like to know but i would prefer one or the other] why does everyone say 'T. blondi' when they know it's a stirmi? what's wrong with Theraphosa stirmi?!?


But my friend, you can take it as far a you want to. Me , personally, I dont care for Avicularias. If I have an Avicularia avicularia or a metallica,is exactly the same for me...Same thing happens with  your personal taste on any T.

You might not care, but some other people does. Since T. Blondi is harder to breed, more rare, more expensive  and SIMPLY other sp...then Lets call it what it is and lets not confuse or take advantage of people


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## Scorpendra (Jan 28, 2011)

I have a ~4" true _blondi_. When she gets bigger, I'm heavily considering having her bred.


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## Projecht13 (Jan 28, 2011)

Scorpendra said:


> I have a ~4" true _blondi_. When she gets bigger, I'm heavily considering having her bred.



dont consider it, research it extensively and do it  OR loan her to a breeder so it can be done "professionally"

thats my 2 cents


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## losct2381 (Jan 28, 2011)

Paul has some real nice female 6-7 blondis true blondies. 
I picked a 1.5 sling in oct and now I have a 3 inch molt sexed female and she's growing fast

---------- Post added at 08:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:43 PM ----------

That's her when I got her 





And that was her about 4 weeks ago before last molt last week 





I'm happy with her. Hope she gets humangus. Shelves to eat
Fran what state u live in

---------- Post added at 08:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:48 PM ----------

Because if ur close to ct maybe we can do some breeding with our t's. U know different blood lines

---------- Post added at 09:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:59 PM ----------

I if ur close we can do face to face. I have read ur problems with certain people in ct. I would rather meet someone for something like that anyway


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## Scorpendra (Jan 29, 2011)

Projecht13 said:


> dont consider it, research it extensively and do it  OR loan her to a breeder so it can be done "professionally"
> 
> thats my 2 cents


If was going to do it myself, I wouldn't have worded it the way I did


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## Suidakkra (Jan 30, 2011)

arachnophile223 said:


> haha yeah but there's such a subtle difference between T. blondi and stirmi. i mean as far as having a giant, brown tarantula goes, either species would work. isn't one of the main differences like the hairs on the tibia or something? unless you want to have a true 'goliath bird eater' i would just as soon buy a stirmi. i don't see why someone would try to deceive someone into thinking they have one species when they actually have another [unless they didn't no how to tell]...they look so similar that, personally, i wouldn't really care which species it was [although i'd like to know but i would prefer one or the other] why does everyone say 'T. blondi' when they know it's a stirmi? what's wrong with Theraphosa stirmi?!?


I think it has a bit to do with the fact collectors want that certain sp. in their collection. Also, a true T.blondi cost more than a T.stirmi, and if someone labels a T.stirmi as T.blondi, they are getting ripped off. Experienced Theraphosa enthusiast may know the difference, but others may not.


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## fatich (Jan 30, 2011)

While i was checking one of the dealer's list on internet,i saw :

-Goliath Bird Eater Theraphosa blondi, Brazil
-Goliath Bird Eater Theraphosa blondi, French Guyana
-Goliath Bird Eater Theraphosa blondi, Surinam
-Goliath Bird Eater Theraphosa blondi, Guyana

Which one is true Theraphosa blondi ?


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## Miss Bianca (Jan 30, 2011)

fatich said:


> While i was checking one of the dealer's list on internet,i saw :
> 
> -Goliath Bird Eater Theraphosa blondi, Brazil
> -Goliath Bird Eater Theraphosa blondi, French Guyana
> ...


First off, I don't know the answer to your inquiry, although hopefully someone else chimes in with 
a more accurate response.
These obviously state where the certain specimens were either collected, 
or where they're considered to be from. I'd contact the seller for specifications to be sure. 
Also, although I'm not as well versed as Fran and others in this matter, the safest way would probably 
be as Fran suggested, to request pictures and possible go on reviews and/or a guarantee that 
satisfies you. (When purchasing online)


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## blay (Feb 15, 2011)

I cant answer your question either, but just for the info: 
Brazil, Variant with short hairs, knees without hairs
French Guyana, Variant with long hairs and red knees, 
Surinam, largest Variant up to 14 cm bl with long hairs and red knees,


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## Philth (Feb 15, 2011)

blay said:


> I cant answer your question either, but just for the info: Surinam is consideret  the largest variant.


Where is that info from?
Later,  Tom


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## blay (Feb 15, 2011)

from someones stock list...and i am planing to buy some Brazil juveniles 5cm legspan (2months old)...do you thing they can be sexed at this size (they are the cheapest).


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## pato_chacoana (Feb 15, 2011)

blay said:


> I cant answer your question either, but just for the info:
> Brazil, Variant with short hairs, knees without hairs
> French Guyana, Variant with long hairs and red knees,
> Surinam, largest Variant up to 14 cm bl with long hairs and red knees,


Looks fake info to me. I personally know FG and Brazil's and doesn't match with that info....

BTW, really 14 BL?:?

Just trying to help

Pato


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## Fran (Feb 15, 2011)

That is complicating  things even more and not wisely IMO.

Theres nothing out there that backs up that those  specific variations exist..So lets just leave it at that, just in case


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## Philth (Feb 15, 2011)

blay said:


> French Guyana, Variant with long hairs and red knees,





blay said:


> from someones stock list...and i am planing to buy some Brazil juveniles 5cm legspan (2months old)...do you thing they can be sexed at this size (they are the cheapest).


Without hairs on there knees they are prob the most common (and cheapest) , _Theraphosa stirmi_.   Why dont they just call them that, instead of confusing things?:?

I guess this was Fran's point of the thread in the first place. 

I'd like to know how/where they got there info that Surinam form (or what ever it really is) is the largest.  Im not doubting it, just never heard about it anywhere else.

Later, Tom


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## blay (Feb 15, 2011)

dont ask me i am just a massanger (a lousy one)...


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## matthias (Feb 15, 2011)

John911 said:


> Why are they so rare?  Are they very difficult to breed?  I see WC advertised pretty often and after reading on here I always wonder how legit they are.


In truth, the problem is that the T. stirmi were just recently described as a different species, BUT they have been sold for many years as T. blondi. Now everyone really needs to go through their collection, evaluate each animal. 
The differences are there and fairly easy to identify.

It is a problem mostly if you are trying to breed. (Yes there is a price difference but 6 months ago the prices were reversed) To the best of my knowledge they do not inter-breed. So if you get the wrong one you have wasted time and money.


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## hooale (Feb 17, 2011)

Philth said:


> Where is that info from?
> Later,  Tom


It's Vinmann's pricelist.

---------- Post added at 12:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:21 AM ----------




blay said:


> from someones stock list...and i am planing to buy some Brazil juveniles 5cm legspan (2months old)...do you thing they can be sexed at this size (they are the cheapest).


Yes Theraphosa is easy to sex. It should be not an issue. But pls do it yourselve..

---------- Post added at 12:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:25 AM ----------




Philth said:


> I'd like to know how/where they got there info that Surinam form (or what ever it really is) is the largest.  Im not doubting it, just never heard about it anywhere else.
> 
> Later, Tom


I am also curious about this. Surinam is occasionally exporting Dendrobates & snakes but i wasn't aware that they would also export T's...


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## Mr Pugsley (Mar 13, 2011)

Those from French Guyana and Surinam are the true T blondi, the ones from Brazil and Guyana are T stirmi. I picked up single sub-adult pairs of the former two from the dealer at the Hamm show, Germany, yesterday.

There are actually a lot of true T blondi slings about in mainland europe at the moment

Mark (UK)


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## Mez (Mar 13, 2011)

Mark, I will be looking to reserve/pick up a blondii sling at the BTS, can you help?
The reason people sell them as t. blondii varies, but here I reckon its because they are imported as 'Goliath Bird Eaters' which have always been blondii before the new species addition, and most shops won't be keeping up with data like that.
Private individuals selling may not be 'into' tarantulas, and may just have one, read a book, got bored and are selling them.


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## PSYS (Mar 13, 2011)

This is disheartening.

We need to get some experienced people that have been in the hobby for quite some time doing the identification and breeding to not only prevent further confusion, but also, to alleviate any unintentional cross-breeding.

It doesn't help that both species look and appear similar... but passing off _T. stirmi _as _T. blondi _is not only unethical, but evidently - these individuals are making a profit at this and adding unnecessary confusion to our hobby.

My 2 pennies.


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## Philth (Mar 13, 2011)

Mr Pugsley said:


> Those from French Guyana and Surinam are the true T blondi, the ones from Brazil and Guyana are T stirmi.
> 
> Mark (UK)


Accorrding to The World Spider Catalog , _Theraphosa blondi_ comes from Guyana as well.  



Mez said:


> The reason people sell them as t. blondii varies, but here I reckon its because they are imported as 'Goliath Bird Eaters' which have always been blondii before the new species addition


The import papers probably say _T. blondi_ ( regardless of what the species was) ,and not Goliath Birdeater.  Wether they were the real T. blondi or not , I suspect importers , pet shops ect, coudn't care less what they were. Big brown spiders sell when you call them birdeaters. 




PSYS said:


> This is disheartening.
> We need to get some experienced people that have been in the hobby for quite some time doing the identification and breeding to not only prevent further confusion, but also, to alleviate any unintentional cross-breeding.


Its really not hard to tell them apart. A few minutes of research and anybody can tell them apart. Especially with the spiderlings and adults.  For me its still a bit tricky to tell apart juvie's though.

Later, Tom


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## Fran (Mar 13, 2011)

Philth said:


> Its really not hard to tell them apart. A few minutes of research and anybody can tell them apart. Especially with the spiderlings and adults.  For me its still a bit tricky to tell apart juvie's though.
> 
> Later, Tom


Agree. Thats the only stage that is a bit tricky since both of them will have dark tarsi/metatarsi and both will appear equaly "fuzzy".

In general, I believe, Blondi tends to be darker in colour and markings.


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## Mr Pugsley (Mar 14, 2011)

[
I am also curious about this. Surinam is occasionally exporting Dendrobates & snakes but i wasn't aware that they would also export T's...[/QUOTE]

I think you have to remember that the Germans are very good at 'acquiring' specimens. that is, for example, how the likes of B baumgarteni appeared in the hobby

[ This is disheartening.

We need to get some experienced people that have been in the hobby for quite some time doing the identification and breeding to not only prevent further confusion, but also, to alleviate any unintentional cross-breeding.

It doesn't help that both species look and appear similar... but passing off T. stirmi as T. blondi is not only unethical, but evidently - these individuals are making a profit at this and adding unnecessary confusion to our hobby.

My 2 pennies. [/QUOTE]

Thomas Vinnmann is not attemting to pass of stirmi as blondi; I didn't ask him, however suspect he is simply not convinced by the Rudloff and Veinmann paper and so prefers to describe them as variants. His description instantly identifies them as he refers to the glabrous patellas

People need to ensure the two species are , along with T. apophysis, not only kept separate but also bred as much as possible. I was talking to a well known european dealer in Hamm and he was very clear that it is likely T. stirmi will not be imported for too much longer.

When I first entered the hobby some 25 years ago people tended to rely on wild caught female T. blondi dropping eggsacs and didn't worry too much about breeding them; the thinking being wild caught specimens would continue to be available. We should not make that mistake with T. stirmi

Just my two 'penneth also

Mark


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## pato_chacoana (Mar 15, 2011)

...and _T. blondi_ are also found in Brazil...

I agree Mark, I wish there were more Captive Breeding efforts and no such massive WC for any clueless idiot to have a _Theraphosa_ 
Also, the damn dead trade is huge...at least what I've seen in FG...really depressing 

cheers,
Pato


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## Mr Pugsley (Mar 16, 2011)

My comments relating to the origins of the specimens related solely to the specimens on Thomas' stock list, i.e. attempting to distinguish twixt T blondi and T stirmi on his stock list. It was absolutely not a comment on what species were to be found in which countries

Cheers

Mark


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## Venom (Mar 16, 2011)

Since the taxonomy of Theraphosa has been botched for some time now, I'm wondering if anyone has attempted to mate T. blondi and T. stirmi....and if so, what resulted. I have a sneaking suspicion that they might be close enough to reproduce fertile offspring (i.e., not genetically incompatible, and therefore more along the lines of variants/ subspecies rather than incompatable and separate species ) .


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## Philth (Mar 16, 2011)

Mr Pugsley said:


> My comments relating to the origins of the specimens related solely to the specimens on Thomas' stock list, i.e. attempting to distinguish twixt T blondi and T stirmi on his stock list. It was absolutely not a comment on what species were to be found in which countries
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Mark


Hi Mark, I was just pointing out that both _T. blondi_ and_ T. stirmi_ are found in Guyana,so how do you know what your getting when a a dealer is calling them all blondi, but from different loclas:?  It would seem easier and less confusing to me just to call them buy the 3 names the genus has.




Venom said:


> Since the taxonomy of Theraphosa has been botched for some time now, I'm wondering if anyone has attempted to mate T. blondi and T. stirmi....and if so, what resulted. I have a sneaking suspicion that they might be close enough to reproduce fertile offspring (i.e., not genetically incompatible, and therefore more along the lines of variants/ subspecies rather than incompatable and separate species ) .


According to ...

Rudloff J.-P. & D. Weinmann. 2010. A new giant tarantula from Guyana. Arthropoda Scientia 1 (1): 20-38.


"_In 2008 and 2009 Theraphosa collected
in Guyana were imported to
Germany and were sold in the pet
trade. All breeding attempts of
these spiders with earlier imported
Theraphosa blondi from French
Guyana revealed that eggsacs were
either infertile or so weak, that all
the offspring died in a larval stage_."

Without turning this thread into a debate of what the definition of a species is, its well known that other tarantulas can hybridize .  B. vagans x B. albopilosum or P. ornata x P. fasciata.  Wether or not they are the same sp. morphs, color forms sub sp. or whatever they should be kept seperate.  Just like the way panther chamelon and green tree python breeders keep there forms seperate.

Later, Tom


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## Mr Pugsley (Mar 18, 2011)

Philth said:


> Hi Mark, I was just pointing out that both _T. blondi_ and_ T. stirmi_ are found in Guyana,so how do you know what your getting when a a dealer is calling them all blondi, but from different loclas:?  It would seem easier and less confusing to me just to call them buy the 3 names the genus has.]
> 
> So:
> 
> ...


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## Taipan (Mar 27, 2011)

This still leaves me confused as to what my two are.
Hairy knees but even at 3" the have light colored feet.


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## Formerphobe (Mar 27, 2011)

To quote Anastasia from a previous thread:



> Theraphosa blondi spiderlings dont have blond feet
> Theraphosa apophysis spiderlings have all 8th feet blond
> Theraphosa sp 'Burgundy' spiderlings have only 4 front feet blond
> Also would like to point T apophysis spiderlings have blond palps is well
> But Theraphosa sp 'Burgundy' palps are dark, not blond


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## Taipan (Mar 27, 2011)

So I have burgundys (strimi) that had(have) four blond feet AND have hairy patellas?? That doesn't all compute.


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## Philth (Mar 27, 2011)

Taipan said:


> So I have burgundys (strimi) that had(have) four blond feet AND have hairy patellas?? That doesn't all compute.


It will loose the patella hair as it grows.

Later, Tom


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## arachnobint (Mar 28, 2011)

This is weird, are there any other T's with such confusing identification?


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## mcluskyisms (Mar 28, 2011)

Taipan said:


> So I have burgundys (strimi) that had(have) four blond feet AND have hairy patellas?? That doesn't all compute.


*The Theraphosa Situation - Visual ID*

:razz:


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## Philth (Mar 28, 2011)

arachnobint said:


> This is weird, are there any other T's with such confusing identification?


IMO its, pretty simple compared to alot of other T's.
Later, Tom


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## arachnobint (Mar 28, 2011)

well in my amateur status its a bit of a shock to learn its not all black and white, kinda like i naively thought


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## Mojo Jojo (Mar 28, 2011)

mcluskyisms said:


> *The Theraphosa Situation - Visual ID*
> 
> :razz:


This was very helpful.  Thanks.


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## Taipan (Mar 29, 2011)

mcluskyisms said:


> *The Theraphosa Situation - Visual ID*
> 
> :razz:


Thanks! Very helpful indeed.


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## mcluskyisms (Mar 30, 2011)

Big Dragonfly said:


> This was very helpful.  Thanks.





Taipan said:


> Thanks! Very helpful indeed.


No worries.


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## tkn0spdr (Aug 19, 2018)

Well, that proves without a doubt that the one I bought today at the Daytona Breeders expo as a blondii is definitely not. I'll have to look again, but it's got light tarsals, I just don't remember if it's 4 or 8.
Guess I'm going to be sending a nasty-gram.

Ignore the link in my sig, I need to fix that.


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## tkn0spdr (Aug 19, 2018)

My wife says I spoke too soon. Here’s a pic, maybe a senior keeper of the species can help me out.


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## jrw159 (Aug 19, 2018)

OK I was wondering about stuff like this as well. I thought the two looked pretty similar as well. I am sure interested to see how this unfolds so that I can be prepared when I decide to pull the trigger on one.

jrw159


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## SonsofArachne (Aug 20, 2018)

I remember seeing a thread awhile back where someone claimed stirmi are on average larger than blondi (unfortunately I don't remember which thread or who posted the the claim). Does anybody know anything about this?


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## basin79 (Aug 20, 2018)

tkn0spdr said:


> My wife says I spoke too soon. Here’s a pic, maybe a senior keeper of the species can help me out.


Every time I try and pinch and zoom a pic it disappears. This is my female blondi at a similar age I'm guessing. 













You'll not thank yourself if you get any hairs on your skin.


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## tkn0spdr (Aug 20, 2018)

basin79 said:


> Every time I try and pinch and zoom a pic it disappears. This is my female blondi at a similar age I'm guessing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh, I’m aware of the conveniences. The tips of the feet on yours look quite a bit darker than on the pics I posted. Mine has a light tan color on the edges of its feet.


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## basin79 (Aug 20, 2018)

tkn0spdr said:


> Oh, I’m aware of the conveniences. The tips of the feet on yours look quite a bit darker than on the pics I posted. Mine has a light tan color on the edges of its feet.


Blondi don't have pink toes. Stirmi have 4 and apop has all 8 feet pink I think as juvies.

Stirmi don't have hairy patella either as adults. Blondi do.

Reactions: Like 1


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