# Preventing mildew & musty odors?



## BlueGuy (Jan 28, 2016)

I have had my first T for about 3 weeks now, a "Pinktoe". Recenctly he/she has built an amazing web structure all throughout the arboreal enclosure and last night put even more work in making trampoline style webbing from the glass to the wood creating a nice platform for climbing and resting on. Really impressive structure. However, after taking him/her out this morning for handling I noticed a musty mildew smell coming from both the T and the enclosure. I am using coco coir as a base layer, with mopani wood for climbing and spagnum moss decor.  Some of the moss was bundled in web as the little T did some interior decorating. I assume this is where the mildew is starting to propagate. The moss is no longer living, and has been boiled prior to use along with everything else. Do arboreal T keepers use this stuff in naturalistic terrariums? How do you keep it from becoming a host for mildew? Should I just not use it? Is there a treatment? I have used food grade peroxide as a mildew preventative in substrate before, it evaporates into oxygen and is usually safe for animals. However I know T's are very delicate and very susceptible to tiny particles and trace elements. So if it did not evaporate 100% by the time he/she was put back, would it cause a problem? I have read about using iso alcohol to clean T's with systemic mold infections, and that is also a known fungicide that evaporates pretty clean. Should I just tear the place apart, throw the moss away, boil everything, set it back up without moss and let him/her build a new web structure? I feel like a jerk ripping apart his/her 10 day masterpiece, and don't want to make it think it's not allowed to make webs or I'm going to come rip them apart etc. Suggestions?


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## viper69 (Jan 29, 2016)

If you don't change your T husbandry, your Avic will be dead. Search the forums for how people Avics, including myself. In short the majority keep our Avics dry with a lot of ventilation, you have too moist a container and/or too little ventilation. I'm surprised your T is still alive to be honest.

As someone who owns Avics, I really don't advise holding them. In case you haven't noticed, they are have a tendency to leap into the thin blue air to get away from giant human hands hahhah, or just to move a long. They will leap and take a 6 ft drop not expecting to hit the floor because they are used to living in an environment with branches and thus expect to find one. You are risking your Ts life when handling. It's your T do as you see fit.



BlueGuy said:


> I have read about using iso alcohol to clean T's with systemic mold infections...I feel like a jerk ripping apart his/her 10 day masterpiece...


Where did you read this, would you post the links?
They make more silk than you can believe, it's hardly a masterpiece, they rebuild.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## BlueGuy (Jan 29, 2016)

It hasn't been setup for over a week, I have the enclosure in a "micro climate" to keep the humidity up during the dry winter, so yes the airflow is restricted. However I exchange the air daily, and just noticed the smell yesterday. I was told by the seller that avics need 85% humidity and 85% temps. This is why I created the micro climate. The house is around 35% on a good day this time of year. I handle him/her over my bed and he/she stopped becoming jumpy after a couple days of careful interaction. The T was weary about touching me the first week, but now walks right onto my hand without hesitation. It doesn't act fearful anymore, thus the jumping has stopped. I think this poor thing was used to living in a deli cup, and is really just happy to be able to walk around at all. Thanks for the tips, and I will get a small fan with maybe a fogger or something to make sure airflow is adequate without compromising humidity. What do you think about the moss? Just a host for anaerobic bacteria and pathogenic spores?


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## viper69 (Jan 29, 2016)

The seller is wrong. I have raised Avics for years to adult hood and many others on here have bred them, do in fact keep them dry like a desert species practically. In fact, I keep my Avics just like my desert species except I make sure their water supply is constant.

What your seller didn't impress upon you is their need for ventilation. The fact you SMELLED mildew in the container is bad. It means stuff is growing in there LONG before you noticed it. The fact that your T smells the same is plain disgusting.

People think high humidity equals moist/wet environments, what they actually forget is in the wild there's a high volume of air movement. You have not replicated this at all. It's a difficult thing to replicate a high humidity environment successfully. Even dart frog owners get mold.

I was in a rain forest during their rainy season, it didn't smell of mildew.

Handle it as much as you want, it's yours. If it takes a leap etc and dies because it was handled, it's your fault.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## BobBarley (Jan 29, 2016)

BlueGuy said:


> It hasn't been setup for over a week, I have the enclosure in a "micro climate" to keep the humidity up during the dry winter, so yes the airflow is restricted. However I exchange the air daily, and just noticed the smell yesterday. I was told by the seller that avics need 85% humidity and 85% temps. This is why I created the micro climate. The house is around 35% on a good day this time of year. I handle him/her over my bed and he/she stopped becoming jumpy after a couple days of careful interaction. The T was weary about touching me the first week, but now walks right onto my hand without hesitation. It doesn't act fearful anymore, thus the jumping has stopped. I think this poor thing was used to living in a deli cup, and is really just happy to be able to walk around at all. Thanks for the tips, and I will get a small fan with maybe a fogger or something to make sure airflow is adequate without compromising humidity. What do you think about the moss? Just a host for anaerobic bacteria and pathogenic spores?


...  Ok so it does NOT need 85% humidity.  You heard it from a pet store or a care sheet??  Yeah do some research on these boards and you'll see all the recent deaths people have had with Avics when they kept them this way.  Also it is not most likely "not acting fearful anymore".  If it is walking more "calmly" it is because it is lethargic from the stuffy an stagnant air.  Do your research on these boards.  Neither does it need 85 degrees F.  Please research these boards, thank you.

Edit:  This should be a good read: http://arachnoboards.com/threads/bad-molt-crippled-pink-toe.280424/. If you look, I'm sure you will find many, many others.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Chris LXXIX (Jan 29, 2016)

viper69 said:


> I was in a rain forest during their rainy season, it didn't smell of mildew.
> 
> Handle it as much as you want, it's yours. If it takes a leap etc and dies because it was handled, it's your fault.


Pure Gospel.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## BlueGuy (Jan 29, 2016)

BobBarley said:


> ...  Ok so it does NOT need 85% humidity.  You heard it from a pet store or a care sheet??  Yeah do some research on these boards and you'll see all the recent deaths people have had with Avics when they kept them this way.  Also it is not most likely "not acting fearful anymore".  If it is walking more "calmly" it is because it is lethargic from the stuffy an stagnant air.  Do your research on these boards.  Neither does it need 85 degrees F.  Please research these boards, thank you.
> 
> Edit:  This should be a good read: http://arachnoboards.com/threads/bad-molt-crippled-pink-toe.280424/. If you look, I'm sure you will find many, many others.


The table vendor who sold it to me for $10. Watched hours of youtube videos with people claming they keep their rooms at 80+80. I am not opposed to reading correct information by any means, so don't assume I haven't been looking. I am here asking questions aren't I? It's not lethargic it's very responsive and alert. Just a lot less skittish than when I brought it home. I do not think there is any harm to the spider.


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## BobBarley (Jan 29, 2016)

BlueGuy said:


> The table vendor who sold it to me for $10. Watched hours of youtube videos with people claming they keep their rooms at 80+80. I am not opposed to reading correct information by any means, so don't assume I haven't been looking. I am here asking questions aren't I? It's not lethargic it's very responsive and alert. Just a lot less skittish than when I brought it home. I do not think there is any harm to the spider.


If you keep it like this, it will die.  Me and dozens of others would guarantee it.


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## BlueGuy (Jan 29, 2016)

http://giantspiders.com/ailments/   <---iso treatment





  <---- Look at the humidity buildup from spraying the enclosure of a. versicolor


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## BlueGuy (Jan 29, 2016)

BobBarley said:


> If you keep it like this, it will die.  Me and dozens of others would guarantee it.


 Thank you. This is why I am here. Quick Start info that is CORRECT. I can research misinformation all day long. I came here to ask long term keepers with experience. People who are not regurgitating misinformation passed on by other newbies. Thank you.

Reactions: Like 1


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## BobBarley (Jan 29, 2016)

BlueGuy said:


> http://giantspiders.com/ailments/   <---iso treatment
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's great and all, but how do you know that A. versi is thriving?  What if it was just given water?


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## BobBarley (Jan 29, 2016)

BlueGuy said:


> Thank you. This is why I am here. Quick Start info that is CORRECT. I can research misinformation all day long. I came here to ask long term keepers with experience. People who are not regurgitating misinformation passed on by other newbies. Thank you.


Just fyi, viper is much more experienced then I am.


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## BlueGuy (Jan 29, 2016)

BobBarley said:


> That's great and all, but how do you know that A. versi is thriving?  What if it was just given water?


I'm just researching how other people are keeping avics and looking at their enclosures. By the amount of water on the side of the cage I would assume a very moist environment? But now I am hearing to keep it dry?


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## BobBarley (Jan 29, 2016)

BlueGuy said:


> I'm just researching how other people are keeping avics and looking at their enclosures. By the amount of water on the side of the cage I would assume a very moist environment? But now I am hearing to keep it dry?


Youtube videos only give you a glimpse of the t.  Perhaps a few minutes of the owner describing how it has been kept *thus far* not how it has been kept after the video was made.  If that A. versi was kept like that every day, it would've died.


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## Chris LXXIX (Jan 29, 2016)

- Arboreal enclosure (i assume you have one) with arboreal _Theraphosidae _set up.
- Bone dry substrate. And nothing else.
- A water dish, always full. No misting at all... useless, and that noise stress the _Theraphosidae.
- _Cross ventilation (drill holes on both sides of the enclosure, this point is extremely important, stagnant air kills "Avics").
- Done.

- Show a bit of respect for someone who offered you help, man.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## BlueGuy (Jan 29, 2016)

I'm looking for positive constructive suggestions not ridicule and shaming thanks.

Reactions: Like 2


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## BobBarley (Jan 29, 2016)

BlueGuy said:


> I'm looking for positive constructive suggestions not ridicule and shaming thanks.


He was helping you.


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## BlueGuy (Jan 29, 2016)

BobBarley said:


> Youtube videos only give you a glimpse of the t.  Perhaps a few minutes of the owner describing how it has been kept *thus far* not how it has been kept after the video was made.  If that A. versi was kept like that every day, it would've died.


Gotcha. What about TarantulaGuy1976? He claims to keep his entire room at 80+ 80+ and has vids on pulling sacs from a. versicolor & p. metallica? Do you think microclimates are just hype? I live in Michigan it's very dry here this time of year. I have 3 humidifiers and live plants all over the house to keep the ambient humidity at around 40%.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## BobBarley (Jan 29, 2016)

BlueGuy said:


> Gotcha. What about TarantulaGuy1976? He claims to keep his entire room at 80+ 80+ and has vids on pulling sacs from a. versicolor & p. metallica? Do you think microclimates are just hype? I live in Michigan it's very dry here this time of year. I have 3 humidifiers and live plants all over the house to keep the ambient humidity at around 40%.


That's because he kept his *whole t room* at 80% humidity.  I live in California and it is also very dry here.  I keep my Avic with a full water dish and an overall dry environment.


Chris LXXIX said:


> - Arboreal enclosure (i assume you have one) with arboreal _Theraphosidae _set up.
> - Bone dry substrate. And nothing else.
> - A water dish, always full. No misting at all... useless, and that noise stress the _Theraphosidae.
> - _Cross ventilation (drill holes on both sides of the enclosure, this point is extremely important, stagnant air kills "Avics").
> ...


Chris sums it up ^


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## Chris LXXIX (Jan 29, 2016)

BlueGuy said:


> Gotcha. What about TarantulaGuy1976? He claims to keep his entire room at 80+ 80+ and has vids on pulling sacs from a. versicolor & p. metallica? Do you think microclimates are just hype? I live in Michigan it's very dry here this time of year. I have 3 humidifiers and live plants all over the house to keep the ambient humidity at around 40%.


TarantulaGuy1976 is a joke IMO. Years ago was put in a sort of pedestal "status" by some people, here. Laughable. A genus _Theraphosa _in his back, crawling all around his body... bitten several times... with all the respect and all for him, of course.

We have more or less the same age (1979) but thank God my _Theraphosidae_ mentor, back then in '92 (after few years of WC true spiders) wasn't like him.

Reactions: Award 1


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## BobBarley (Jan 29, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> TarantulaGuy1976 is a joke IMO. Years ago was put in a sort of pedestal "status" by some people, here. Laughable. T's in his back, crawling all around his body. Bitten several times... with all the respect and all for him, of course.


Never watched any of his vids, but t's all over his body?  I wouldn't trust his info lol.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Chris LXXIX (Jan 29, 2016)

BobBarley said:


> Never watched any of his vids, but t's all over his body?  I wouldn't trust his info lol.


Well, it's not that. He knows "how to" at the end of the day. And everyone risk a bite, granted. After all, we keep venomous inverts at our homes. Just that like i love to say: "It's the attitude... " ;-)

Reactions: Like 1


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## BobBarley (Jan 29, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> Well, it's not that. He knows "how to" at the end of the day. And everyone risk a bite, granted. After all, we keep venomous inverts at our homes. Just that like i love to say: "It's the attitude... " ;-)


Ah, I see.  My favorite t Youtuber right now is "Greg Rice".  Love his vids, especially one of his latest:

Reactions: Like 1


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## BlueGuy (Jan 29, 2016)

Thanks guys. I just assumed because he had a huge following and was pulling eggs with legs he would be a credible source. :/
I'm not really understanding why 80% ambient in the whole room would make a difference than 80% in the enclosure? I have kept neoptropical treefrogs for years, and have had to modify exo terra systems to include small computer fans that would pull air in the front and up through the top to prevent spores from propagating in there. I am using coco fiber as it is readily available and I hydrate it with boiling water to kill anything nasty pressed in it. So I am going to let the coco dry out more before incorporating it into the habitat, remove the dead moss to prevent it from becoming a spore host, and for the final answer would you say NOT to use live pothos plants because they are going to be smothered in web?


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## BobBarley (Jan 29, 2016)

BlueGuy said:


> Thanks guys. I just assumed because he had a huge following and was pulling eggs with legs he would be a credible source. :/
> I'm not really understanding why 80% ambient in the whole room would make a difference than 80% in the enclosure? I have kept neoptropical treefrogs for years, and have had to modify exo terra systems to include small computer fans that would pull air in the front and up through the top to prevent spores from propagating in there. I am using coco fiber as it is readily available and I hydrate it with boiling water to kill anything nasty pressed in it. So I am going to let the coco dry out more before incorporating it into the habitat, remove the dead moss to prevent it from becoming a spore host, and for the final answer would you say NOT to use live pothos plants because they are going to be smothered in web?


You don't get mildew and mold growing every that is humid and a room would probably have better airflow than a cage.  Yes, that'd be a good idea.  I'd say no pothos as it would, yes, be smothered by web.

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## BlueGuy (Jan 29, 2016)

Yeah Florida is a dream for raising exotics. I moved to MI in 2011 and half my delicate collection died in the first year because of 30* temp swings and humidity fluxes. It's a bitch to keep an environment stable here. I am working on it though. Believe it or not I have never had fungal issues like I have had here. And I was keeping exotics in Palm Beach with water pools and canals everywhere. No live plants then he/she will get the plastic stuff that won't decay. Thanks for everyone's help, i'm not trying be a dick, just frustrated so many people have told me to keep them in a sauna basically.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## BobBarley (Jan 29, 2016)

BlueGuy said:


> Yeah Florida is a dream for raising exotics. I moved to MI in 2011 and half my delicate collection died in the first year because of 30* temp swings and humidity fluxes. It's a bitch to keep an environment stable here. I am working on it though. Believe it or not I have never had fungal issues like I have had here. And I was keeping exotics in Palm Beach with water pools and canals everywhere. No live plants then he/she will get the plastic stuff that won't decay. Thanks for everyone's help, i'm not trying be a dick, just frustrated so many people have told me to keep them in a sauna basically.


Yes , there is wayyyyyyyyy too much misinformation out there.  It's a real problem, what with the number of people posting "My Avic Died" and finding out that they've been keeping it wrong, almost daily.  It is absolutely infuriating!!


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## BlueGuy (Jan 29, 2016)

Thanks for your time. And last but not least while I have you here, can I feed a stable diet of Dubia and ONLY Dubia? I understand some critters REQUIRE variety of diet, but I have raised some species on JUST superworms with outstanding results. I know roaches are more nutritional and am working to incorporate a food source I can produce on my own.


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## AbraxasComplex (Jan 30, 2016)

Reading over this thread I can see why BlueGuy felt singled out and attacked. The posts may have been informative, but the delivery came across as snobbish. There are reasons why several people that I know personally and used to be avid posters here no longer frequent the forums. 

The advice they gave you works for Avics. I have raised them this way and have also raised 4 of them with equal success in a massive fully planted vivarium (120 gallons) that had multiple water features, excessive moisture, warmth, and little airflow. I started with 4 slings and ended with 4 mature adults (3 males... woo). In the end I pulled her two sacks and converted the tank into my chicken spider vivarium since it felt like such a waste to have one spider in such a huge tank. 

My ways work because I spend months grooming an environment and getting it stable before I add animals. I add detritivores like isopods and springtails to control mould and eat decaying plant material (and dead crickets). I compose a proper soil mix that keeps plants healthy, drains well (into a drainage layer), and has acidic properties to discourage more fungal growth. The techniques I've learned through research and trial and error are ones the average new hobbyist doesn't know and usually does not want to invest the extra time and money into. Achieving balance is rewarding, but tough and no new hobbyist should dive into living environments before mastering the fundamentals.

Have I butted heads with a lot of people on these boards? Absolutely. I lived in the same city as Stan Schultz and we even had an argument that my planted vivariums would lead to mold and mites killing all my tarantulas. Yet here I am after a decade of producing thousands of slings while importing and breeding many species of invertebrate and have not lost one to those problems. Are their techniques wrong? No. It's all about application and my hobby is about balance with social species in living settings. I try to replicate an entire small niche of an environment. However most on this board are about keeping just tarantulas and the "Gospel" spoken here suits that way of keeping. It allows a higher success rate for keeping tarantulas happy and healthy. Especially for new hobbyists.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## viper69 (Jan 30, 2016)

Abraxas is correct without a doubt.

BlueGuy the reason I said keep them dry, is primarily because beginners and even experienced hobbyists don't take the time (reasons don't matter for my writing) to have elaborate setups like Abraxas. Any person that owns Dart Frogs for example knows the setups are more than greens, substrate, frogs, fans and water. They also know that those tanks are highly complex microecosystems. The truth is, the average T keeper does not create such a setup and thus as a hobby has less experience in creating such setups for Ts when compared to the dart frog hobby. Granted by default of owning a dart frog one HAS to create a serious microclimate or they die. Oddly this seems to not be true of Ts from what T breeders with more experience than myself have observed over time.

With your frog experience, darts by chance?, you could create a setup like Abraxas. As I'm sure you know all serious dart frog keepers let their tank setups cycle for a while before adding in the frogs.

Personally, I think your experience in creating what sounds like realistic frog vivaria will be an asset to your T husbandry should you go that route.

There is a guy on the forum here a few years back that setup a nice planted system with misting for a Goliath Bird Eater. He said it worked quite well.

If you go the "dry route" for T keeping you will find T keeping far easier than frogs. Heck, I know I do and I've only kept White's Tree Frog and Red Eye Tree Frogs.

As for plants, it isn't that one can't keep live plants, it just seems that more often than not people report their Ts digging them up or webbing over them.

I'm curious to read what Abraxas has observed over time with different species/localities??

As for food, there's a variety of opinions on feeders. Personally I just feed them gutloaded crickets, because crickets aren't that nutritious. There's a breeder on the forum that just feeds them crickets as well, and he's quite successful. I suspect you may be able to do the same with roaches. Mealworms can be fed, and of course roaches. Some people have tried wax worms, but wax worms have one of the highest fat content value for the common feeders most people use. I wouldn't suggest waxworms at all, plus they don't move that much compared to crickets etc.


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## viper69 (Jan 30, 2016)

AbraxasComplex said:


> Reading over this thread I can see why BlueGuy felt singled out and attacked. The posts may have been informative, but the delivery came across as snobbish. There are reasons why several people that I know personally and used to be avid posters here no longer frequent the forums.
> 
> The advice they gave you works for Avics. I have raised them this way and have also raised 4 of them with equal success in a massive fully planted vivarium (120 gallons) that had multiple water features, excessive moisture, warmth, and little airflow. I started with 4 slings and ended with 4 mature adults (3 males... woo). In the end I pulled her two sacks and converted the tank into my chicken spider vivarium since it felt like such a waste to have one spider in such a huge tank.
> 
> ...


What ever became of your Holothele sp. Columbia??


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## AbraxasComplex (Jan 30, 2016)

I had a second generation communal tank with several adult females and a few separate females in other enclosures. I paired them up with males several times from various sources, but never got sacs to start a third generation. I currently have one solitary female left that I hope is gravid after a recent pairing. Time will tell. Much like H.incei it seems the lifespan on this species is about 4 to 5 years for solitary females that have not had breeding stress each season (my second generation hatched in 2011). 

As for food I've had much success just with crickets. And I read something about living in Florida? I'm under the impression roaches cannot be legally raised in Florida unless already native to the area. 

As for plants and tarantulas most web over or burrow under. Some Pamphobeteus appreciate a pre made burrow and won't disturb your plants. H.incei webs everything to death while Holothele sp. Colombia will make a hidden web tunnel covered in dirt that may partially wrap around a plant base and go a few inches into the substrate. They were great with plants. It really depends on the habits of the animal and how big the enclosure is. A solitary spider with less "destructive" habits will do fine in a large tank with many plants as long as they are fed well (prey items learn to avoid burrows). A social group will wipe out every plant in a large vivarium once the population explodes. 

An alternative for heavy burrowers is using a plant like bird's nest sansevieria (stays small, grows compact, and has lower light and water requirements), but keep it in a tightly packed pot that will prevent the tarantula from digging into the roots. You then hide the pot with substrate and ornaments and it allows you to water just the plant and not the entire tank.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## BlueGuy (Jan 30, 2016)

What would you recommend for an appropriate size for a living terrarium for a single avic? I agree with the organic eco-model, and in my past experience with keeping captive animals they do much better with living plants in their habitats. My concern is the welfare of the plant as with my experience it's not whether it will root and grow, it's whether the animal will kill it.  Are you using expanded clay pellets layered with coco and then your soil mix? Do the avics just leave the cleanup crew alone or do they become food if the T gets curious? I have discovered that if you use wiggle worm brand worm castings in your soil mix it prevents root aphid populations from even starting. I assume nematodes or some form of microbeast in the castings attacking larve. Interested in sharing the soil recipe? I have one i'm working on for growing lettuce for the roaches. Just add water recipe. Well I have to lower my ph (well water) with citric acid, but it's still 100% organic.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## viper69 (Jan 30, 2016)

AbraxasComplex said:


> I had a second generation communal tank with several adult females and a few separate females in other enclosures. I paired them up with males several times from various sources, but never got sacs to start a third generation. I currently have one solitary female left that I hope is gravid after a recent pairing. Time will tell. Much like H.incei it seems the lifespan on this species is about 4 to 5 years for solitary females that have not had breeding stress each season (my second generation hatched in 2011).
> 
> As for food I've had much success just with crickets. And I read something about living in Florida? I'm under the impression roaches cannot be legally raised in Florida unless already native to the area.
> 
> ...


Abraxas that's pretty impressive you made it to a second generation w/that locality! I would love to own a few of these. I think they are one of the most striking Ts out there.

Did you ever post pics of them through their growth phases? Those would be great to see.

That's a shame you only have one left. I do hope you get a sac with EWLs. Your breeding attempts are consistent with Martin's up at TCanada, I asked him how it went, and also consistent with someone here in the USA. I THINK he has/had the opposite situation as you, ie ended up with males. He may still have his, but I don't know.


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## AbraxasComplex (Jan 30, 2016)

BlueGuy I do a variant of the Atlanta Botanical Garden mix. Except I have no access to tree fern fiber and counter that by using more peat and coconut fiber. I'll also add sand for a bit more drainage and when setting up for tarantulas I use less or no fine orchid bark. Earthworm casings work well when you use small amounts, however it can burn out sensitive plants if you use too much with all that nitrogen. I avoid it now, but I'm sure the bacteria and other beneficial organisms found within it are great for getting soils started.

So I use:
2-3 parts coconut fiber
1-2 parts peat
1 part mulled spaghnum moss
1/2 part fine carbon
1/2 part silica sand
1/2 orchid bark


For drainage I have used the balls or fine gravel with up to an inch of sand on top (keeps soil from entering your mini aquifer). Burrowing tarantulas sometimes stop at the sand layer, but not often.

For a vivarium for an Avic you can use a 10 to 20 gallon long on its side. They won't utilize the bottom at all, but you can plant various hoyas, pothos, creeping fig, or other plants that can climb up your background and branches. Sansevierias work great for this too and add height and can be webbed up for months without the leaves dying. They will all tolerate drier conditions should you choose to go a route of higher ventilation (which I recommend for learning) by using a screen door.

As for the clean up crew most tarantulas avoid eating them. They don't seem to taste so great, however they may end up all becoming attempted snacks as the tarantula grabs them and tosses them aside. So I would use the dwarf varieties of isopod. They tend to escape the attention.

Viper69 sadly I'm bad at keeping track of my old photos. They exist, but are most likely trapped on dead laptops and broken phones. Martin actually sent the last male to me. I hope he did his job well.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## BlueGuy (Jan 30, 2016)

Oh man thank you so much! This is exactly what I was looking for!


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## AbraxasComplex (Jan 30, 2016)

Glad to help. If you need more help feel free to ask more questions. You can either pm me or post here so others can learn as well. Keep us posted in your endeavours and those of us that are experienced in this topic can continue to give input to make sure you have the resources to keep your tarantula and vivarium healthy.


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## BlueGuy (Jan 30, 2016)

Put this together for a starter setup while I work on cultivating the spidey biodome.  Added a small planter of my organic mustard greens for jungle foliage. When the crickets eat it they gutload themselves, and I can easily replace it with a new one each cleaning.


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## BobBarley (Jan 30, 2016)

BlueGuy said:


> Put this together for a starter setup while I work on cultivating the spidey biodome.  Added a small planter of my organic mustard greens for jungle foliage. When the crickets eat it they gutload themselves, and I can easily replace it with a new one each cleaning.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Awesome, that should work!


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## viper69 (Jan 30, 2016)

AbraxasComplex said:


> BlueGuy I do a variant of the Atlanta Botanical Garden mix. Except I have no access to tree fern fiber and counter that by using more peat and coconut fiber. I'll also add sand for a bit more drainage and when setting up for tarantulas I use less or no fine orchid bark. Earthworm casings work well when you use small amounts, however it can burn out sensitive plants if you use too much with all that nitrogen. I avoid it now, but I'm sure the bacteria and other beneficial organisms found within it are great for getting soils started.
> 
> So I use:
> 2-3 parts coconut fiber
> ...


Had a feeling Martin may have been involved.

Curious, on the peat, is all peat the same? I somehow doubt it. As you know not all topsoil that is sold is the same, thought I'd ask just the same on that one.


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## viper69 (Jan 30, 2016)

BlueGuy said:


> Put this together for a starter setup while I work on cultivating the spidey biodome.  Added a small planter of my organic mustard greens for jungle foliage. When the crickets eat it they gutload themselves, and I can easily replace it with a new one each cleaning.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's a nice amount of ventilation. I always ventilate all the sides and top of my T containers, regardless of what they are made of, for my Avics.


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## AbraxasComplex (Jan 31, 2016)

viper69 said:


> Had a feeling Martin may have been involved.
> 
> Curious, on the peat, is all peat the same? I somehow doubt it. As you know not all topsoil that is sold is the same, thought I'd ask just the same on that one.


Good question. I'm not quite sure. But I use a product that is 100% peat moss. I'm under the impression that it is dug out of peat bogs and is just layers and layers of broken down moss and plant fiber (like sphagnum). I use it for holding moisture and keeping the soil acidic.


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## Steve123 (Jan 31, 2016)

Ah ha ha, @viper69. Hey Chris, and howdy @AbraxasComplex. I knew of this male. I have four AF Neoholothele fasciaaurinigra and I had spoken to Martin last year about him. I had arranged an air-cargo US import around that male from Tarantula Canada, but in the end Martin said a hobbyist contacted him and given the possibility of babies. . .
The hobbyist must have been Abraxascomplex. 
All's well that ends well. I ended up importing, among other things, air-cargo from Germany, two MMs and a mess of slings in December (2015). They are a great species and I can see why they are so well-liked.
I agree with the comments on the chaos fasciaaurinigra make with live plants. One female webbed all plant matter down flat. The other three webbed common "pathos," sparing taller leaves such that they are still exposed to light. Much appreciate the pieces of information here in this thread. GL y'all with your projects!
Cheers,
Steve

Reactions: Informative 1


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## BlueGuy (Jan 31, 2016)

> Curious, on the peat, is all peat the same? I somehow doubt it. As you know not all topsoil that is sold is the same, thought I'd ask just the same on that one.


http://homeguides.sfgate.com/difference-between-peat-peat-moss-27490.html
Here is a good explanation... 

"Peat" is kind of like the "soup" of the swamp. It's pre composted plant material that has been dug out of the bog. "Peat Moss" sometimes called "sphagnum" is a plant that grows on the trees and such. That's why sometimes you find pieces of wood and other debris in "peat" while "moss" is just harvested plant material. There is a lot of hype about the peat mining industry ruining sensitive bogs that play critical roles in the ecosystem, and coco coir manufactures use this in their advertising, that their product is a food waste resources instead of a "harvested" resource that hurts the environment.

However the greenhouse industry almost sustains itself on peat based soils, and with the Medical Marijuana industry booming here in the US, the demand for peat will continue to grow. Unless everyone is forced to convert to coco based soils, which will probably never happen.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## viper69 (Jan 31, 2016)

AbraxasComplex said:


> Good question. I'm not quite sure. But I use a product that is 100% peat moss. I'm under the impression that it is dug out of peat bogs and is just layers and layers of broken down moss and plant fiber (like sphagnum). I use it for holding moisture and keeping the soil acidic.


I heard that's how most peat is sold too, just wasn't sure however.


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## viper69 (Jan 31, 2016)

Steve123 said:


> Ah ha ha, @viper69. Hey Chris, and howdy @AbraxasComplex. I knew of this male. I have four AF Neoholothele fasciaaurinigra and I had spoken to Martin last year about him. I had arranged an air-cargo US import around that male from Tarantula Canada, but in the end Martin said a hobbyist contacted him and given the possibility of babies. . .
> The hobbyist must have been Abraxascomplex.
> All's well that ends well. I ended up importing, among other things, air-cargo from Germany, two MMs and a mess of slings in December (2015). They are a great species and I can see why they are so well-liked.
> I agree with the comments on the chaos fasciaaurinigra make with live plants. One female webbed all plant matter down flat. The other three webbed common "pathos," sparing taller leaves such that they are still exposed to light. Much appreciate the pieces of information here in this thread. GL y'all with your projects!
> ...



Well perhaps you and Abraxas can make some Bumblebees available to the USA....... They are beautiful!!! and truly make H incei look an ancient painting in need of restoration.


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## The Snark (Jan 31, 2016)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sphagnum


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