# Please explain: Old World vs New World



## hard_jokur

:?  I keep seeing these terms, "thrown" around when it comes to talking about T's. I see it so much that it's become generic & meaningless to me. Can someone please explain what old world & new world mean??  right now it's clear as mud  


Thanks
Rich

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## becca81

Old World Tarantulas are found in the "Old World," meaning Africa, Asia, Europe, etc.

New World Tarantulas are found in the "New World," meaning North and South America.  When the Americas were discovered, they were the "New World."  

Most New World Tarantulas have urticating hairs as their main form of defense.

Old World Tarantulas have a nasty attitude and bite as their main form of defense.

To generalize, New World Tarantulas are a bit more docile than Old World Tarantulas.  There are some exceptions, of course.

Reactions: Like 5 | Informative 2


----------



## Bpkid

New World-from the continents of the western hemisphere,most of these T's have urticating hairs on their abdomen.

Old World-From the continents of the Eastern hemisphere.They don't have urticating hairs,but make up for it with a usually nasty dispotion.

Reactions: Informative 1


----------



## hard_jokur

THanks guys...  :worship:


----------



## Henry Kane

hard_jokur said:
			
		

> :?  I keep seeing these terms, "thrown" around when it comes to talking about T's. I see it so much that it's become generic & meaningless to me. Can someone please explain what old world & new world mean??  right now it's clear as mud
> 
> 
> Thanks
> Rich


Without knowing it may seem meaningless but when you know the meaning of the terms, particularly from personal experience with T's from each category, you can bet that anytime it's mentioned, it's a significant detail. 

Atrax

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## wolfpak

thanks for the educational informations :clap:

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Faelynne

id a G Rosea a NW or OW? :8o


----------



## Bry

NW...they are located in Chile (and I think Argentina?), hence the common name Chilean Rose Hair.


----------



## Beccas_824

Old Worlds tend to be a lot meaner usually too-a lot of T's with signigicant venom come from The Old World. I can't think of one Old World t I would recomend as a good "Beginner T"


----------



## bagheera

Ah, and just to add an historical note, without which I think the definition would be incomplete. The above posts cover all the zoological differences....

New Word/Old World World are referenced from the European point of view and Columbus' discovery of the "New World" . This was quite a surprise to the Native Americans, as they did not know that they required to be discovered.

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 1


----------



## defour

bagheera said:
			
		

> New Word/Old World World are referenced from the European point of view and Columbus' discovery of the "New World" . This was quite a surprise to the Native Americans, as they did not know that they required to be discovered.


Really? This is mindblowing! How is it possible that these indigenous folks called themselves "Native Americans" before being happened across by the Europeans? Coincidence? I don't know, but it's mighty weird, and the fact that it's been so obviously omitted from the history books I've read makes me suspicious. And why didn't Von Daniken ever latch onto it? He can smell this kind of thing from miles off, even underwater. Somebody ought to give him a call.

Steve

Reactions: Face Palm 1


----------



## AaronT

great info, thanks


----------



## LimaMikeSquared

Beccas_824 said:


> Old Worlds tend to be a lot meaner usually too-a lot of T's with signigicant venom come from The Old World. I can't think of one Old World t I would recomend as a good "Beginner T"


I found that most of them can be kept first off as long as the right research is done and respect and caution is shown, as some are species tend to be more defensive and run away when distrubed, then being outwardly aggressive.

Poecilotheria ornata was my 2nd T followed by regalis being my third, I had an Avic. avicularia first and thats was very slow and calm so big difference with the ornata. lol

LMS

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## ShadowBlade

Ahh, I love it.  

Oblivious I believe is the word.

-Sean


----------



## Poxicator

Thanks for the info, I wonder was the outcome of those cures were. Aloe Vera sounds like good advice, I have a few of these in the house so I may be pulling leaves off soon.
I'm just about to receive my first T - an adult female Lasiodora Klugi, eeek!
Seems I'm in for both the hairs and the 1 inch fangs!


----------



## Moltar

NW = Cute, fuzzy and cuddly then itchy.
OW = "Ouch, my finger!!"

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 3


----------



## tabbski

*my first t*

just aquired my first and from the previous post i think i have a old world t, im from australia and the t is phlogius SP 'stents', i got it through a pet store so i think it may have been caught in the wild, so i guess i should try to handle it..... too much.....


----------



## jen1302

I have a chili flame sling which with what i found on it does not flick hairs like my chili rose.

So i'm assuming my chili flame (sling) is old world not new like my rosie or curly.

Not found much info on this type if anyone has any info on flame always love to find out new things.

Reactions: Like 1 | Face Palm 1


----------



## Moltar

A chilean flame or chilean fire is a Grammostola rosea, red color form. It IS in fact the same species as a Chilean rose. They're all from south america and thus NW.

The urticating hair question has nothing to do with whether they DO or DON'T actually kick hairs but rather whether or not they possess them at all.

There are actually some NW species that don't have urticating hairs. The delineation of OW vs NW has to do with where they're from, period.

From the Americas = NW
From anywhere else = OW


----------



## cacoseraph

chilean flame might refer to Euathlus or possibly even non-Theraphosidae mygalomorphs.

(tarantula are from the spider family Theraphosidae. i believe only theraphosidae  can flick urticating setae.  there are spiders that look *quite* similar to tarantulas that are not from family Theraphosidae.  some knowledgeable euro can probably chime in)

(mygalomorphs are spiders that are generally long lived and have four book lungs and fangs that open downward)


----------



## Derek W.

I agree with E-Town, if it's called Chile something then it is probably reffering to the country Chile, which is in South America, and South America is part of the New World...therefore it's a New World T

But the real problem here is...does ANYONE read the rules and the begginer's sticky threads anymore!!!!???? :evil:  lol


----------



## AubZ

There's a beginers section??:? ;P


----------



## Moltar

cacoseraph said:


> chilean flame might refer to Euathlus or possibly even non-Theraphosidae mygalomorphs.


Ah yes, Euathlus. In the back of my mind i thought i might be forgetting something. You're probably right because as a sling you can't tell what color form a G rosea will be so why sell as a chilean fire/flame? Common names, sheesh...

Still NW though.


----------



## IdahoBiteyThing

*Love this thread*

also, Chilean flame frequently refers to Paraphysa scrofa as well as RCF G. rosea.  Why common names suck.  Latin rules, English drools.


----------



## von_z

Anyone who's 3rd grade teacher showed them a globe, and taught them basic world history, should know the difference between the New World and the Old World.  Then it's just a matter of looking up where a T is from and putting 2 and 2 together.........

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## DrJ

*OW Attitude?*

From my experience, I've kept several baboon tarantulas and only one asian (cobalt), and these have all been more friendly in personality than the vast majority of new world species I have kept.  Yes, even my cobalt is a calm girl!  My baboons that insist on burrowing have no qualms with me digging them out for cage transfers and I've only gotten two threat displays from any of my baboons the entire time I've had them.  Whereas, I am almost on a constant basis threat display with many of my new world species.  Some of my NWs charge, attack my tongs with biting and striking, etc.  And THAT never happens with my baboons.  So, where in the world does the stereotype of "nasty OW" tarantula come from?  Granted, many do have a more serious bite than NW, but their dispositions seem to be much nicer overall, and they don't make you itch when you do cage maintenance.  But, hey, to each his own.


----------



## RottweilExpress

DrJ said:


> but their dispositions seem to be much nicer overall, and they don't make you itch when you do cage maintenance.


The general consensus is a disagreement to your opinion. Few NW "threatposes" enough to actually fall on their backs, or slam the ground so hard with their front legs that the cage vibrates.

I'm just going to say they're all individuals.


----------



## DrJ

RottweilExpress said:


> The general consensus is a disagreement to your opinion. Few NW "threatposes" enough to actually fall on their backs, or slam the ground so hard with their front legs that the cage vibrates.
> 
> I'm just going to say they're all individuals.


The only threat poses like this I've ever heard of came from an Acanthoscurria geniculata.  I'm not even going to count the numerous OBT accounts I've read here on the boards as every single one I've ever read was provoked.  The general concensus operates on stereotype.  I know every spider is its own individual, but I have found that if I want to get bitten, sticking my hand in a NW tank is going to get it done more likely than an OW tank.  I have searched for the so-called aggressive baboon specimens (just because I like baboons for some reason) and have not once met one that was very defensive.  Probably the worst case I ever had with one was having an OBT dash out of its tank while I was trying to pack it for shipping.  To me, that's better than having a T fight back with everything they've got...the instance of most NW I have met.


----------



## RottweilExpress

DrJ said:


> I know every spider is its own individual, but I have found that if I want to get bitten, sticking my hand in a NW tank is going to get it done more likely than an OW tank.


There's a vast difference between being mistaken for prey and being attacked for intruding in a tarantulas turf.

But...I'm not saying your experience is "wrong". I'd say my meanest spider (although I really dislike my own use of words) is my P. Cancerides. And all but one of my 8-9 Pterinochilus would discourage me enough not to touch and that is my OBT female.

The most fang happy individual I have is a female P. Irminia. But only after being "provoked" while prodding around in her tube with pincers removing roach parts.


----------



## Moltar

von_z said:


> Anyone who's 3rd grade teacher showed them a globe, and taught them basic world history, should know the difference between the New World and the Old World.  Then it's just a matter of looking up where a T is from and putting 2 and 2 together.........


I guess people can have OW attitudes too...


Back on topic: my feeling is that many OW'ers (particularly assorted haplo's and OBT's which i've observed at length) are skittish and more likely to flee when initially disturbed. Only when they feel cornered will they get really snarky. When they do it's an instantaneous jeckyl/hyde transformation. Ferocious!

NW'er terrestrials on the other hand will sometimes be defensive right up front be it via hairs or fangs. Sometimes they just walk slowly walk away or hold on with all 8 legs and refuse to be moved. Once cornered however they don't really up the ante the way some OW'ers will.
Who knows why this is? Certainly not me.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## harveythefly

> Back on topic: my feeling is that many OW'ers (particularly assorted haplo's and OBT's which i've observed at length) are skittish and more likely to flee when initially disturbed. Only when they feel cornered will they get really snarky. When they do it's an instantaneous jeckyl/hyde transformation. Ferocious!


i dunno....my H. minax (RIP) would come flying out her burrow to attack anything that entered her enclosure...be it a finger or a tong or just a drop of water...my experience is mainly with old world spiders and i can say without a doubt that in broad general terms they tend to be more defensive than the new world spiders i'm starting to get into now (N. chromatus and P. cancerides not withstanding hehe)...although i have some pokies that are quite placid so there are some exceptions to the rule

Harvey


----------



## cacoseraph

harveythefly said:


> i dunno....my H. minax (RIP) would come flying out her burrow to attack anything that entered her enclosure...be it a finger or a tong or just a drop of water...my experience is mainly with old world spiders and i can say without a doubt that in broad general terms they tend to be more defensive than the new world spiders i'm starting to get into now (N. chromatus and P. cancerides not withstanding hehe)...although i have some pokies that are quite placid so there are some exceptions to the rule
> 
> Harvey


this definitely sounds like transfer of prey aggression to me


damn, i should be a bug psychologist!


----------



## the nature boy

yes, psychology is calling your name...


----------



## von_z

etown_411 said:


> I guess people can have OW attitudes too...
> 
> 
> Sorry, I should have kept my opinion to myself.  I've got to stay away from the forum when I'm having a bad day.


----------



## Moltar

von_z said:


> etown_411 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess people can have OW attitudes too...
> 
> 
> Sorry, I should have kept my opinion to myself.  I've got to stay away from the forum when I'm having a bad day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I do that too, lol. I try to make myself read my posts from the perspective of the person i'm stinging before hitting "submit"...
> 
> I'm making an effort lately to be nicer to the newwwbs. I was one less than 2 years ago.
Click to expand...


----------



## AlexRC

This is definitely helpful info, thanks guys.  I know what the OW and NW are, but couldn't tell what the major differences of the native T's were.  My guesses about the differences were right, but I didn't know that OW's didn't have any urticating hairs at all.


----------



## Anonymity82

My G. rosea will only take so much until it gets fed up and then... does nothing. I don't mess it with it really but sometimes I like to handle it. I'll gently touch leg after leg as it slowly moves away onto my other hand that is on the other side of him (clever as a wasp I am). Sometimes it decides it doesn't want to move and just condenses itself. I leave it alone after that. After all I am not a bully.

---------- Post added 11-22-2011 at 02:13 AM ----------

Haha, save the bad day arguments for youtube videos.


----------



## xhexdx

AlexRC said:


> This is definitely helpful info, thanks guys.  I know what the OW and NW are, but couldn't tell what the major differences of the native T's were.  My guesses about the differences were right, but I didn't know that OW's didn't have any urticating hairs at all.


Several genera of new worlders don't have urticating hairs, either.

Psalmopoeus, Tapinauchenius, and Holothele (incei, sp. "Bumblebee") are the first three that come to mind.


----------



## Malestrom

wow after reading this I must now consider if a tarantula is in my future at all. Im enticed by all insects and arachnids but with severe asthma and no desire to be bitten or find out if I chose a tempermental T with a bad personality..... it seems too much.
Perhaps ill keep reading and stick with roaches and vinegaroons and such for now.
Some interesting beetles out there too lol!
Thanks for the great thread folks.


----------



## Earth Tiger

Malestrom said:


> wow after reading this I must now consider if a tarantula is in my future at all. Im enticed by all insects and arachnids but with severe asthma and no desire to be bitten or find out if I chose a tempermental T with a bad personality..... it seems too much.
> Perhaps ill keep reading and stick with roaches and vinegaroons and such for now.
> Some interesting beetles out there too lol!
> Thanks for the great thread folks.


Get an emperor scorp then. It has no urticating hairs and it even if it changes its docile temperament it is too slow to attack you. Or a Malaysian forest scorp if you think the emperor is too bulking and prefer sleeker docile scorps.


----------



## jaw6053

Does anyone have a list of ALL *new world* and ALL *old world *tarantulas ?  Or a link that lists them ?  I have googled but cannot find one.


----------



## Pyroxian

jaw6053 said:


> Does anyone have a list of ALL *new world* and ALL *old world *tarantulas ?  Or a link that lists them ?  I have googled but cannot find one.


Since we're still discovering entirely new species, I doubt such an absolute as "ALL" can be met. I do know that there have been MUCH more recent posts with fairly comprehensive lists of "all tarantulas commonly found in the pet trade" which may be more useful, at least for most keepers, than a truly comprehensive list would be anyway. Probably the most comprehensive list would be the world spider catalog and then pay attention to native range since afaik the "new/old world" designations are geographic not genetic.
(Also - this is a really old thread, 8+ years from last reply before yours. I suspect you might get better responses from either a new thread you start or one of the more recent ones)

Reactions: Helpful 1


----------



## jaw6053

Pyroxian said:


> Since we're still discovering entirely new species, I doubt such an absolute as "ALL" can be met. I do know that there have been MUCH more recent posts with fairly comprehensive lists of "all tarantulas commonly found in the pet trade" which may be more useful, at least for most keepers, than a truly comprehensive list would be anyway. Probably the most comprehensive list would be the world spider catalog and then pay attention to native range since afaik the "new/old world" designations are geographic not genetic.
> (Also - this is a really old thread, 8+ years from last reply before yours. I suspect you might get better responses from either a new thread you start or one of the more recent ones)


I am a beginner keeper and was just looking for a basic list of each.  That way I know if I am buying an old world or new world.  Instead of having to take 5 minutes each time I see one I like, would be much easier if I had a list.


----------



## cold blood

jaw6053 said:


> I am a beginner keeper and was just looking for a basic list of each.  That way I know if I am buying an old world or new world.  Instead of having to take 5 minutes each time I see one I like, would be much easier if I had a list.


All ts from north and south America are NW....all others are old world.

It would take longer than a 5 min search to go through such an extensive list to find your info that way.

No one should be buying a t without knowing _something_ about it first....where its from is the most obvious thing to learn....know where its from and one will _automatically_ know if its OW or NW.

Such a list would not only be time consuming to create, but certainly not worth the effort.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Love 1


----------



## Pyroxian

cold blood said:


> All ts from north and south America are NW....all others are old world.
> 
> It would take longer than a 5 min search to go through such an extensive list to find your info that way.
> 
> No one should be buying a t without knowing _something_ about it first....where its from is the most obvious thing to learn....know where its from and one will _automatically_ know if its OW or NW.
> 
> Such a list would not only be time consuming to create, and certainly not worth the effort.


Exactly the sentiment of my intended reply but better stated than I was managing (and with the gravitas of a mod reply).

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1


----------



## Kitara

cold blood said:


> Such a list would not only be time consuming to create, but certainly not worth the effort.


And by the time it was finished we'd have a new genus rename and have to start over.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2 | Winner 1


----------

