# Next big thing in the reptile hobby?



## Stirmi (Jan 24, 2014)

Hey fellow reptile keepers in your opinion what do you think is bound to be the next big reptile like bearded dragons and ball pythons, I think crocodile skinks and blue tongue skinks will become very popular in a few years when captive breeding becomes more common and for snakes i feel kenyan sand boas will become more popular soon. So lets here from you guys what do you think will become really popular?


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## Spepper (Jan 24, 2014)

I did see quite a few sand boas for sale at an expo I was at recently.


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## cantthinkofone (Jan 24, 2014)

ball pythons are like a pest thats hard to eradicate. im SOO sick of seeing them destroy shows. I dont pay $4 to see the same expensive morphs! Who is going to pay that much for a private collection?!? the answer is no one. Its a breeder sells to breeder game. and thats all it really is, a game. And I personally just dont like bearded dragons. I dont hate them, and I love the cute little babies, i just dont really like them. Geckos are getting VERY big around here. I don't mind the crested and gargoyle geckos, but the leopard geckos I dont like. they are turning just like ball pythons. personally I think the annoying trade market we call ball pythons will dictate for a couple years. Hog nose snakes are getting big. I wouldn't mind that at all


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## klawfran3 (Jan 24, 2014)

I'm guessing hognoses  and some sort of colubrid. Just a guess anyways...


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## viper69 (Jan 24, 2014)

Blue tongue skinks, big--never
Leopard geckos were already big long before ball python morphs ever were..and still are
Ball pythons are here to stay for many many reasons. It's not breeders selling only to breeders- there are a lot of people with amazing morphs in their homes.

I do agree though that it gets OLD seeing nothing but BPs  or leopard gex at shows!!!!

If I was going to breed a snake I would do is the Dominican Red Mountain Boa- they are docile, small, keep like a regular boa or ball. BUT the amazing thing about them is the few breeders that have them (all from the same locality) are producing all sorts of NATURALLY occurring pattern and color mutations WITHOUT selective breeding. Two snakes can produce up over 9 different morphs all in a single clutch.

Some of the mutations are calico (piebald in terms of looks basically) and hypos etc some that took many years to develop in BPs are already present in the gene pool that is breeding in the USA

Also, like BPs they have small clutches! They aren't on most peoples radar at all- there's only a small handful of people breeding them. This snake is from the Epicrates genus, like Braz Rainbow Boas, just doesn't have the humidity requirements like BRBs. 

I'm blown away by how many naturally occurring mutations exist within such a small gene pool in this small island species- and even more blown away by how many morphs a single set of adults can produce In a single clutch !!


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## cantthinkofone (Jan 24, 2014)

for me its breeder sell to breeder. who in their right mind thinks "well it costs 2,000 dollars... must be a great deal!" and then purchases it? Why pay thousands when you could have the same snake for $40 without all that selective breeding.


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## viper69 (Jan 24, 2014)

cantthinkofone said:


> for me its breeder sell to breeder. who in their right mind thinks "well it costs 2,000 dollars... must be a great deal!" and then purchases it? Why pay thousands when you could have the same snake for $40 without all that selective breeding.


It isnt breeder to breeder- I know a high end BP breeder we talk about this all the time.

And it's not the same snake, it's the same species, but not the same snake at all. You are delusional if you think it is.

There are tons of things in life where people pay more for the "same thing", from haircuts to soap, glasses frames to  computers, from car colors to car brands (a Honda is a car and so is a BMW). People buy automatic instead of manual shift even though automatics are more expensive to purchase and maintain.

A Trinidad Olive is not a Trinidad Gold.

In short it comes down to want and personal preference generally speaking. That's why there's a market for it.

Reactions: Like 1


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## cantthinkofone (Jan 24, 2014)

Yeah I got that. I know they aren't the "same snake" I got that. Same species then. No need to go on a rant. We have different opinions that's how life works. All I'm trying to say is I've never seen someone at the shows I attend buy a ball morph other then people that were breeders.


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## viper69 (Jan 24, 2014)

Oh not a rant- just a million things come to mind that remind me of your thought  I see morphs bought frequently and not by breeders- I own a BP morph and I don't breed, though I should because this one has 50% wild caught genes


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## LordWaffle (Jan 24, 2014)

We have a hognose and I love it. It seems to be gaining some popularity and I think they have the temperament to get big.


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## cantthinkofone (Jan 24, 2014)

I love hoggies


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## Mephibosheth1 (Jan 24, 2014)

im guessing hog-noses, BTS, and maybe carpet pythons

There were a TON of carpet pythons at the Sac Expo last year...


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## viper69 (Jan 24, 2014)

Here's a link to a calico Red Mountain Boa. I wish I had link to the breeder with all the other naturally occurring morphs. I'm not suggesting this morph is for everyone, but the pattern developed after 3 years, unlike pied animals which are born w/the phenotype.

Truly a remarkable diverse set of genes floating in this small island species of which there is not a huge population to begin with.

http://crispysnakes.tumblr.com/post/52832155563/calico-dominican-red-mountain-boa-epicrates

Reactions: Like 2


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## JZC (Jan 24, 2014)

viper69 said:


> Here's a link to a calico Red Mountain Boa. I wish I had link to the breeder with all the other naturally occurring morphs. I'm not suggesting this morph is for everyone, but the pattern developed after 3 years, unlike pied animals which are born w/the phenotype.
> 
> Truly a remarkable diverse set of genes floating in this small island species of which there is not a huge population to begin with.
> 
> http://crispysnakes.tumblr.com/post/52832155563/calico-dominican-red-mountain-boa-epicrates



That is by far the most beautiful snake, maybe most beautiful herp, that I have ever seen.:worship::worship:


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## viper69 (Jan 24, 2014)

JZC said:


> That is by far the most beautiful snake, maybe most beautiful herp, that I have ever seen.:worship::worship:



Just google Red Mountain Boa  and hit images. You'll see a bunch of natural morphs that didn't occur from selective breeding at all.  When I saw them in person I asked the breeder, "how long did it take you to breed all these morphs", he said "one clutch!" 

There's one morph that has the deep red of the blood boas. The breeders really hit a jackpot in terms of natural morphs, the challenge for them is to figure out if they can increase their chances of getting a certain phenotype as opposed to developing one.

The only down side w/this species, like GTPs, is that from a baby you have no way of knowing what you will get, a calico, a deep red variant etc. As the link above mentioned..it was 3 yrs before the white showed.


What's interesting is that like Pie Bald BPs and these Calico's, the initial animals have pretty much normal head color and patterning. The head's phenotype is the last to go for some reason, the wonders of epigenetics and genetics.


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## JZC (Jan 24, 2014)

viper69 said:


> Just google Red Mountain Boa  and hit images. You'll see a bunch of natural morphs that didn't occur from selective breeding at all.  When I saw them in person I asked the breeder, "how long did it take you to breed all these morphs", he said "one clutch!"
> 
> There's one morph that has the deep red of the blood boas. The breeders really hit a jackpot in terms of natural morphs, the challenge for them is to figure out if they can increase their chances of getting a certain phenotype as opposed to developing one.
> 
> ...


Nah, I think I should stop before I have a snakegasm!


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## LordWaffle (Jan 24, 2014)

Gorgeous snake.


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## freedumbdclxvi (Jan 25, 2014)

Hopefully the next big thing is getting the constrictors off the lacey act.  Gotta love that yellow anacondas are legal in florida and bred everywhere except florida.

Reactions: Like 1


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## iamthegame06 (Jan 25, 2014)

blue tongue skinks! once the northern ones and different patterns gets here in the US im so getting in to that! lol


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## ArachnidKid1997 (Jan 25, 2014)

Hognoses are becoming more and more popular for sure. Lots of new morphs appearing and i find the prices for normals are starting to drop slightly (at lest, in Canada that is) they're also a good size for most people, and my understanding is that they make decent pets (aside from the huff n puff threat displays  )

I've also noticed a recent popularity in rhacodactylus ssp, especially cresteds and "leachies".


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## Livia (Jan 25, 2014)

I think it will probably be a frog of some sort as they are VERY popular over here.


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## viper69 (Jan 25, 2014)

Cresteds already popular but  the leachies are catching on. Don't think they will be huge though like lep gex or crested gex- but maybe so


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## Stirmi (Jan 25, 2014)

I agree about leachies since they can be defensive,


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## pyro fiend (Jan 26, 2014)

i personaly think there wont be just one thing.. now every kid wants to breed his animals off mom and dads money iv noticed... cheapest things, and what dominates shows in my area.. is boas and balls. tho 90% time the balls are babys [i have 9 myself and love this species]  but what tromples them? the  kenyans as well as leos... iv actually seen booths telling a kid HOW TO BREED THEM when he said it was his first reptile... with the simplicity, no need to put efort into eggs its a huge eye catcher like corns with the youngins.  tho corns are out of there prime ksb and leos are just now getting more morphs..  where as balls and corns you need to put a little effort into them but have tons of colors and can get expensive [pied bp and scaless for examples] and boas take alot more money to raise.. not to mention "they will eat you" *laughs*

also something iv seen alot of kids get around here are chams... the dealers dont always tell them what they will ultimatly need they ofc want the buck.. iv seen dealers sell a cham in a kriter keeper as a "6month home"....  so as far as what common animals will be the new big thing... my money would be on chams ksb or leos..

now for new species wise.. around here for example you NEVER see a ausy python.. now hybrids and mutt carpets are begining to show up slowly. and they sell quick even when marked too high [seen a costal sell for 400 as baby].. *shrug* its all location based ig. iv been to kansas city shows, springfield shows and STL shows and each had its own herp dominating[during same time of year... kc its balanced... saint louis it was leos and ksb.. springfield the 2 times iv gone they was boas mainly with some insects and few balls..   tho cresties r very common now too over last few yrs

i dont see bts's geting popular in my area. even savanahs hardly get sold around here and sellers have told me strait up they almost never can sell any type of bts at shows. [i like them but they are never around for fair prices]


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## viper69 (Jan 26, 2014)

I think hybrids are completely wrong esp with snakes. There are WAY TOO MANY snake "breeders" that come and go, sell animals to anyone who will pay, and don't keep records or even know what the hell they are doing.

For the past few years, people have been breeding Hog Island Boas into normal B.c.i's because they want the small size (why they don't just go with a Nic B.c.i is beyond me) and most importantly the colors of a Hog. Except as a result, when you see many of these 50/50 hybrids, you can't even tell the difference between a pure Hog and a hybrid. The sort of people I mentioned above are going to contaminate and destroy beautiful lines of snakes.

I don't want to hear about "they meet in the wild...maybe they do...", in a Hog's case, NO they DON'T meet in the wild because that locality lives on an island you stupid MORON. I had to tell someone that once.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Perentie (Jan 26, 2014)

Because of the pressure on all species in the wild I believe captive bloodlines should remain pure. Hybrids and morphs never look as good as the original, and in some cases it gets so extreme you cant even find an animal for sale that is the true species natural size and coloration. Paintjobs are for cars.


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## viper69 (Jan 26, 2014)

Try finding a normal leopard gecko- or even a high yellow Lep gex that existed before it was genetically proven - virtually non existent ESP the high yellow


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## cantthinkofone (Jan 26, 2014)

viper69 said:


> Try finding a normal leopard gecko- or even a high yellow Lep gex that existed before it was genetically proven - virtually non existent ESP the high yellow


 Whats this "normal" you talk about?


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## freedumbdclxvi (Jan 26, 2014)

Hybrids and morphs are not an issue to me.  This isn't the wild nor pure conservation.  A number of breeders out there do keep things pure.  The hobby is large enough for those who want pure bloodlines and those who enjoy morphs/hybrids.


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## 2bears (Jan 26, 2014)

Is there room for the albino, and calico west african gaboon vipers ?


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## cantthinkofone (Jan 26, 2014)

I LOVE gaboon vipers! they are amazing. Only thing above them for me is eyelash vipers


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## freedumbdclxvi (Jan 26, 2014)

2bears said:


> Is there room for the albino, and calico west african gaboon vipers ?


Yes.  Dang, a calico gaboon would be gorgeous!


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## Perentie (Jan 26, 2014)

morphs are OK to an extent, but when it gets to the point where true bloodlines are not available it is a terrible thing. The rarer species in the wild need to be kept pure. I have seen people start making hybrids with uromastyx, this needs to be stopped. If hybrids make it to the sp. I keep, they will be doomed in the wild. Even if it happens in the wild, we can't let it happen in captivity. Because if we start breeding hybrids we ruin bloodlines of animals where every individual matters. I apologize if this is not my best wording, I am sick atm

Reactions: Like 1


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## Biollantefan54 (Jan 26, 2014)

+1 On what Perentie said. What if they go extinct in the wild and all we have are hybrids?


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## freedumbdclxvi (Jan 26, 2014)

Perentie said:


> morphs are OK to an extent, but when it gets to the point where true bloodlines are not available it is a terrible thing. The rarer species in the wild need to be kept pure. I have seen people start making hybrids with uromastyx, this needs to be stopped. If hybrids make it to the sp. I keep, they will be doomed in the wild. Even if it happens in the wild, we can't let it happen in captivity. Because if we start breeding hybrids we ruin bloodlines of animals where every individual matters. I apologize if this is not my best wording, I am sick atm


You are confusing pure conservation with the hobby.  While conservation is a by product of the hobby, it isn't the main goal for the majority of people.  Hybridization doesn't *need* to be stopped, nor does hybridization in the hobby afffect nor "doom" any wild animals.  What you and others need to do is support those breeders who don't deal with hybrids and join in the efforts of pure bloodline breeding.  However, those that aren't of the same opinion don't need to be stopped nor are they bad.  They have their place, just as purists have theirs.

---------- Post added 01-26-2014 at 07:20 PM ----------




Biollantefan54 said:


> +1 On what Perentie said. What if they go extinct in the wild and all we have are hybrids?


Then the fault lies with humanity for habitat destruction and not those breeders that bred hybrids.  These are hobbyists doing what they love and breeders making a living - they are not just conservationists and nor should they be forced to be if they choose not to be.


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## ShredderEmp (Jan 26, 2014)

However being a breeder doesn't allow them to go hybridizing black rhinos either.


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## freedumbdclxvi (Jan 26, 2014)

ShredderEmp said:


> However being a breeder doesn't allow them to go hybridizing black rhinos either.


Know many dealers selling black rhinos?


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## viper69 (Jan 26, 2014)

cantthinkofone said:


> Whats this "normal" you talk about?



Are you joking?? I hope so, if not let me know, and I'll explain 

---------- Post added 01-26-2014 at 07:31 PM ----------




freedumbdclxvi said:


> Hybrids and morphs are not an issue to me.  This isn't the wild nor pure conservation.  A number of breeders out there do keep things pure.  The hobby is large enough for those who want pure bloodlines and those who enjoy morphs/hybrids.


In my experience, there are far more people who think they are "breeders" just because they slapped 2 snakes together, that have the knowledge of a rock, and make hybrids, they are quickly in and quickly out of the hobby all the time. They typically don't know what they are doing, and worse, just lie and sell the snakes as something it isn't. These types of people far outnumber the amount of good, stable breeders IMO.

Some people would rather own the Ford Shelby AC Cobra, some would rather own a kit car that only LOOKS like the real thing but isn't anywhere near the real thing.


Color me crazy, but I like owning the *REAL THING*.

---------- Post added 01-26-2014 at 07:33 PM ----------




Perentie said:


> morphs are OK to an extent, but when it gets to the point where true bloodlines are not available it is a terrible thing.


This is what happened to the leopard gecko pretty much. I was going to get another one, a normal WT genetic leopard gecko with some high yellow. People started showing me leopard gecko mutants without spots, that is NOT what I asked for, it's CRAP 

I never had a problem with morphs per se. Such as albinism, its variants pie bald, and leucism. Those 3 are all naturally occurring in nature but for obvious reasons the animals rarely survive.

Reactions: Like 1


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## freedumbdclxvi (Jan 26, 2014)

Great but that doesn't make you "better" nor those people who like hybrids "worse".  There are plenty of people with tons of knowledge breeding hybrids.  Fortunately ( and until usfw messes us all over), the reptile hobby is big enough to accommodate everyone no matter what their tastes are.


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## ShredderEmp (Jan 26, 2014)

freedumbdclxvi said:


> Know many dealers selling black rhinos?


I was making a point. No one one sells black rhinos, but I was saying that just because some breeders aren't conservationists, doesn't mean that they can go around breeding for morphs in endangered/vulnerable/threatened animals.


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## freedumbdclxvi (Jan 26, 2014)

ShredderEmp said:


> I was making a point. No one one sells black rhinos, but I was saying that just because some breeders aren't conservationists, doesn't mean that they can go around breeding for morphs in endangered/vulnerable/threatened animals.


Whether we like it or agree with it or not, they *can* do what they wish.  If people feel so strongly about raising pure lines, join the ranks of those breeders dealing with pure bloodlines.  And only buy from those that do.  Simple.  But there's no moral highground simply because you dislike a woma/ball python or super dwarf lavender albino retic.


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## viper69 (Jan 26, 2014)

freedumbdclxvi said:


> Great but that doesn't make you "better" nor those people who like hybrids "worse".


I never wrote either, nor implied it.

There are some people who make true locality hybrids that truly do keep meticulous records, are knowledgeable, and are leaders with the species they breed. I've only met one.  As I said before, that type of breeder is far outnumbered by those who don't and don't care about the hobby.


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## pyro fiend (Jan 27, 2014)

personally i think hybrids can look nice.. CAN but does not mean you should do it.. i understand some lines of genes are hard to come by with all the laws now. and ill admit the burmball i liked.. but how it came along should not have happened..nor should it really happen again..  and yes i understand not everyone wants a big 9ft+ snake like a burm. or they want a ball python whos bigger and still tame [this is where you select breed imho] but not try and hybrid them....   

i do believe it can ruin blood lines.. nowadays when i go to a show and im looking at BPs like 40% either are hidden gene woma. or are from a hgw pairing... and i dont encourage it obviously.. and i never see a arboreal snake thats 100% one species it seems if i do its a display only..im the kind of guy to find beauty in almost any morph.. especially the normal mutations[wild albino lucy]... and yes we find "dinkers" and yes it makes the hobby interesting but form my knowledge we havent found a dinker who was a hybrid.. so why encourage it..

but i think vipers right those who do it outnumber those who are completely one species [excluding those who invest in hybrids for any other reason then display] and thats what ruins it


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## Scorpionluva (Jan 27, 2014)

freedumbdclxvi said:


> Yes.  Dang, a calico gaboon would be gorgeous!


Yes indeed a calico gaboon would be gorgeous !!! Always been my favorite snake !!!!


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## freedumbdclxvi (Jan 27, 2014)

viper69 said:


> I never wrote either, nor implied it.
> 
> There are some people who make true locality hybrids that truly do keep meticulous records, are knowledgeable, and are leaders with the species they breed. I've only met one.  As I said before, that type of breeder is far outnumbered by those who don't and don't care about the hobby.


Yeah, but that's common - the adequate (or less than adequate) outnumber the quality.


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## pouchedrat (Jan 29, 2014)

I have some albino and het albino western hogs that'll be ready to breed this season, once they're out of brumation.  I've definitely seen them more and more at shows lately.  Also, crested geckos are EVERYWHERE here in Baltimore (as are ball pythons of course....).  Last show I went to there were more crested gecko breeders than there were leopard geckos; and gargoyle geckos and leachies were on the rise.  I also saw a decline in bearded dragons.  

Someone once mentioned toad headed agamas would be a thing someday.   It was probably just them trying to sell them at the show, but they were pretty chill lizards.    I keep finding more and more people I speak with wanting pet tegus (I have two who were both rehomes, myself), but honestly I don't see too many people being able to actually house or care for one.  Not like a leopard gecko or bearded dragon...


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## Spepper (Jan 29, 2014)

When I went to a show recently there were very few leopard geckos but crested geckos were everywhere.  And ball pythons along with other kinds of pythons made up the biggest group of animals there.  I think I only saw bearded dragons once.


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