# gravid?



## carpe scorpio (Apr 15, 2005)

I have never had this genus end up gravid, but I never attempted to breed them either. Looks like it to me, what do you think?.


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## carpe scorpio (Apr 16, 2005)

Hmmm, 18 views and 0 replies, I guess I'll just assume I'm correct.


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## G. Carnell (Apr 16, 2005)

yep 
looks like it 


you shouldnt look at views too seriously 
when someone wants to reply they will 
you knew they were gravid in the first place!!!

also: is that wet cotton she is drinking from?  it looks like ice!

please post some more pics when she gives birth!
good luck to her


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## Nazgul (Apr 16, 2005)

Hi,

normally embryos which one can see through the pleural membranes are more arranged in a row. Sometimes it´s just the intestines which you can see on overfed specimens.

Regards
Alex


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## Ythier (Apr 16, 2005)

If she drinks a lot, I think also she's gravid...


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## carpe scorpio (Apr 16, 2005)

G. Carnell said:
			
		

> yep
> looks like it
> 
> 
> ...


I guess your'e right. I did think she was gravid. It is(frequently changed) bath-tissue. I'll post pics as things develop, thanks.


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## carpe scorpio (Apr 16, 2005)

Nazgul said:
			
		

> Hi,
> 
> normally embryos which one can see through the pleural membranes are more arranged in a row. Sometimes it´s just the intestines which you can see on overfed specimens.
> 
> ...


I also thought that initially, but now?.


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## carpe scorpio (Apr 16, 2005)

Ythier said:
			
		

> If she drinks a lot, I think also she's gravid...


She's been drinking a lot.


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## fusion121 (Apr 16, 2005)

Hi
I've found you can determine whether its the intestine or embryos by looking just below and to either side of the genital operculum in pregnant buthids you seem to get 2 embryos pointing towards the operculum, that are visible on the underside of the scorpion. I don’t know if this holds for all scorpions or if you can make then out in darker coloured scorpions  , I’ve seen it in L.q, buthus and C.werneri .


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## carpe scorpio (Apr 16, 2005)

fusion121 said:
			
		

> Hi
> I've found you can determine whether its the intestine or embryos by looking just below and to either side of the genital operculum in pregnant buthids you seem to get 2 embryos pointing towards the operculum, that are visible on the underside of the scorpion. I don’t know if this holds for all scorpions or if you can make then out in darker coloured scorpions  , I’ve seen it in L.q, buthus and C.werneri .


Hmmm, I'll try to get a closer look, I have never heard that before, thanks.


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## Brian S (Apr 16, 2005)

What do you all think about this one? It has looked like this for over 6 months now. I wish it would either molt or drop babies.


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## TheNothing (Apr 16, 2005)

my P. trans. is looking the same
was just telling my g/f that i think i have another gravid scorp...


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## carpe scorpio (Apr 18, 2005)

Her hunger seems to have increased in the last two weeks as well.


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## Black Hawk (Apr 18, 2005)

nice pic   i hope the best, with all these fat scorps ONE must be gravid


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## Ythier (Apr 19, 2005)

fusion121 said:
			
		

> Hi
> I've found you can determine whether its the intestine or embryos by looking just below and to either side of the genital operculum in pregnant buthids you seem to get 2 embryos pointing towards the operculum, that are visible on the underside of the scorpion. I don’t know if this holds for all scorpions or if you can make then out in darker coloured scorpions  , I’ve seen it in L.q, buthus and C.werneri .


Oliver do you talk about the spermatocleutrum, often visible in Buthidae spp ?


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## fusion121 (Apr 19, 2005)

No I don't think so; they are only seem to be visible in gravid females and are large and white like the other embryos. I don't know whether they can be see in all scorpions but I think they lie in that place as its the start of the uterine structure.


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## Ythier (Apr 19, 2005)

ok thanks.


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## carpe scorpio (Apr 19, 2005)

UPDATE!!, she just gave birth!!!, I'll post pics VERY soon. Thanks for all the input, everyone.


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## Brian S (Apr 19, 2005)

That's great Stan!!! Congratz to you


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## carpe scorpio (Apr 19, 2005)

Brian S said:
			
		

> That's great Stan!!! Congratz to you


Thanks Brian, Ok, here is the first(too blurry, sorry)photo of the little ones. I will get some better shots later.


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## TheNothing (Apr 19, 2005)

awesome
congrats!


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## carpe scorpio (Apr 19, 2005)

TheNothing said:
			
		

> awesome
> congrats!


Thanks, now I have to get ready to feed/house them. I will put clear shipping-tape over the silicone in the tank-corners to prevent escape.


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## carpe scorpio (Apr 19, 2005)

The conditions at the time of birth were, 85F and 55% humidity. I shall have to raise the humidity a tad more for a few weeks I suppose. Never had these as young, any A. bicolor-specific tips/advice would be very welcome.


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## Brian S (Apr 19, 2005)

I have always been told to raise humidity slightly for babies but I still wouldn't want to raise it very much for any Androctonus spp.

btw Stan, I haven't seen that avatar in awhile


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## carpe scorpio (Apr 19, 2005)

Brian S said:
			
		

> I have always been told to raise humidity slightly for babies but I still wouldn't want to raise it very much for any Androctonus spp.
> 
> btw Stan, I haven't seen that avatar in awhile


Yes, I'm thinking not much over 60%?. I had to return to that avatar, it was time.


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## Brian S (Apr 19, 2005)

I would say you are about right on that. I can't say from experience myself though unfortunatly.

Did you ever have any of your gracilis to give birth?


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## carpe scorpio (Apr 19, 2005)

Brian S said:
			
		

> I would say you are about right on that. I can't say from experience myself though unfortunatly.
> 
> Did you ever have any of your gracilis to give birth?


Yes, but that was easy, the humidity was already high. I just want to give these guys just enough and that's it.


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## Brian S (Apr 19, 2005)

Keep us updated on this. I find this rather interesting


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## carpe scorpio (Apr 20, 2005)

Brian S said:
			
		

> Keep us updated on this. I find this rather interesting


Besides drinking and feeding more often, the thing that made me really start watching her, was seeing her up on her tail and back two legs with her abdomen right against the glass where the heating pad is located.


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## Brian S (Apr 20, 2005)

That's interesting. Seems like I've heard this behavior called "stilting"


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## G. Carnell (Apr 20, 2005)

Hi
isnt stilting before birth?

my Grosphus has been stilting on and off for the past 2 weeks!
(she is preg)


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## Brian S (Apr 20, 2005)

That is what he said it was doing before it gave birth  lol


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## G. Carnell (Apr 20, 2005)

lol SORR-EEEEEY

i mis-read


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## carpe scorpio (Apr 20, 2005)

Brian S said:
			
		

> That's interesting. Seems like I've heard this behavior called "stilting"


I think you mean when they extend themselves up on all eight legs, what she did was like an emperor trying to get out up against the glass. Also that "stilting" behavior is most commonly associated with excessive humidity.


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## Brian S (Apr 20, 2005)

G. Carnell said:
			
		

> lol SORR-EEEEEY
> 
> i mis-read


LOL!!!


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## Brian S (Apr 20, 2005)

carpe scorpio said:
			
		

> I think you mean when they extend themselves up on all eight legs, what she did was like an emperor trying to get out up against the glass. Also that "stilting" behavior is most commonly associated with excessive humidity.


Maybe that's it...I knew I read or heard something about stilting.


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## Nazgul (Apr 20, 2005)

Hi Stan,

congratulations to your fatherhood .

You can keep the young communally until they are going to molt the second time. Every molting specimen will get eaten by the others. All Androctonus spp I raised are highly cannibalistic.

I´m not measuring  the humidity level but I´m adding that amount of water once a week (and before molts) which is drying out in about two days. Daytime temperatures are around 90 F and 77 F nighttimes. Androctonus spp seem to like it really hot. The youngs should molt for the first time about a week after their birth (at least mine did under that conditions).

Regards
Alex


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## carpe scorpio (Apr 20, 2005)

Nazgul said:
			
		

> Hi Stan,
> 
> congratulations to your fatherhood .
> 
> ...


Alex, thanks a lot for the information, it confirms what I had suspected. I'll keep you posted on the progress.


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## carpe scorpio (Apr 21, 2005)

UPDATE!, the young are starting to darken very slightly, mostly in the post-abdomen. The mother refuses to move for fear of dropping the litter, have been crushing the heads of adult crickets and offering them to her at a rate of one per day, which she is eating. Temp is 84F and humidity is 60%, have placed clear shiny tape over corners of tank to prevent escape and placed a super-fine mesh screen over lid.


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## Kugellager (Apr 22, 2005)

Stilting can also be caused by other factors such as a substrate that is too moist or mite problems...along with other causes.

John
];')


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## carpe scorpio (Apr 22, 2005)

Kugellager said:
			
		

> Stilting can also be caused by other factors such as a substrate that is too moist or mite problems...along with other causes.
> 
> John
> ];')


I have never seen it in any of my specimens, so that's good. Thanks for the info.


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## woodson (Apr 22, 2005)

Congratulations!
It is sure that she is gravid!
: )


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## carpe scorpio (Apr 22, 2005)

woodson said:
			
		

> Congratulations!
> It is sure that she is gravid!
> : )


Thank you, yes it is, see page 2.


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## Brian S (Apr 22, 2005)

My gracils molted to 2nd instar last night. It will be interesting to see how long it takes your bicolors. Do you have an idea of how many babies there are?


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## carpe scorpio (Apr 22, 2005)

Brian S said:
			
		

> My gracils molted to 2nd instar last night. It will be interesting to see how long it takes your bicolors. Do you have an idea of how many babies there are?


Close to 30 I think, it's hard to tell with them all in such a dog-pile. I just looked in on them and today looks like 2nd instar-day.


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## Brian S (Apr 22, 2005)

Wow that was fast!!! It took my gracilis over a week to molt at 80F.


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## carpe scorpio (Apr 22, 2005)

Brian S said:
			
		

> Wow that was fast!!! It took my gracilis over a week to molt at 80F.


Well, I'm not positive yet, I only glanced real quick, I'll know more at 10am AK time.


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## carpe scorpio (Apr 22, 2005)

UPDATE!, they are molting to 2nd instar right now!.


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## carpe scorpio (Apr 22, 2005)

Here's a pic of the little beasties, couldn't get a shot from the front of the tank, so I had to shoot it off the mirror behind the tank. Once they start roaming around, the pics will be mich better.


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## ThatGuy (Apr 22, 2005)

man there all over that mother ! thats sweet


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## carpe scorpio (Apr 22, 2005)

She has been eating one cricket per day for three days since they were born. I suppose most of the previous meals were in large part, nourishing the embryos prior to the birth.


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## buthidae46290 (Apr 22, 2005)

Hey congrats on the babies! Are you thinking about selling any of them when they get a little bit bigger?


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## Brian S (Apr 23, 2005)

Looks like she has a decent size litter. They sure molted out quick huh?


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## carpe scorpio (Apr 23, 2005)

Brian S said:
			
		

> Looks like she has a decent size litter. They sure molted out quick huh?


Yeah, I thought there would be fewer of them, but they must have really been jam-packed in there. I am a bit shocked at the three day 2nd instar, but I too was used to C. gracilis, and mine took as long as yours did.


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## carpe scorpio (Apr 23, 2005)

buthidae46290 said:
			
		

> Hey congrats on the babies! Are you thinking about selling any of them when they get a little bit bigger?


Thanks, no I'm gonna keep them here with me for as long as they survive.


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## carpe scorpio (Apr 24, 2005)

They are starting to leave the mother gradually, the exoskeletons are just barely beginning to darken. I can see 9-10 of them still on her and the rest are very near the heat-pad.


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## Brian S (Apr 25, 2005)

Wow that's neat!!!


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## carpe scorpio (Apr 25, 2005)

Brian S said:
			
		

> Wow that's neat!!!


Yeah, it's always a fun thing to witness. There is only one left on her back and they are now visible under UV light. I'm sure they will be eating very soon.


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## carpe scorpio (Apr 26, 2005)

UPDATE!, all the young are off the mother and are hanging upside-down on a section of cork bark near the heat pad. They are still darkening and not quite ready to strike off on their own yet, but they are much more active. The most interesting thing is the mother's appetite, she has eaten a cricket a day since they were born.


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## buthidae46290 (Apr 26, 2005)

carpe scorpio said:
			
		

> Close to 30 I think, it's hard to tell with them all in such a dog-pile. I just looked in on them and today looks like 2nd instar-day.


Have you been able to get an accurate count yet? Or are they still to cramed together...


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## carpe scorpio (Apr 26, 2005)

buthidae46290 said:
			
		

> Have you been able to get an accurate count yet? Or are they still to cramed together...


No, they are off her back, but now they are in group under the cork bark. I would say 25+ for sure anyway. Eventually I'll have fewer of them due to cannibalism etc. I plan to get more (clearer) pics as soon as I see any of them away from the bark.


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## carpe scorpio (Apr 27, 2005)

Here are some shots of them roaming around. It has been said by the illustrious skinheaddave, that this species seems to move with such speed as to "teleport" from place to place. After taking 50+ photos of tails and hind legs, I find that the young are even faster than I could have imagined.


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## carpe scorpio (Apr 28, 2005)

Well, today they started eating crickets. In some cases, up to four scorpions were seen feeding on each of the mashed crickets.


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## Brian S (Apr 28, 2005)

Wow that's neat!! My gracilis babes are doing the same thing now. It will be interesting to see how many molts before they turn black.


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## carpe scorpio (Apr 28, 2005)

Brian S said:
			
		

> Wow that's neat!! My gracilis babes are doing the same thing now. It will be interesting to see how many molts before they turn black.


It was quite entertaining, as soon as I changed the water dish and chunks of cricket started raining down, they came out of every nook and cranny, shooting all over the place at warp-9. The air was full of the smell of fresh meat. I am also wondering about the blackening, but in this case the legs and chela should remain lighter for quite a while.


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## Hoosier (Apr 28, 2005)

nice pictures of the scorplings eating the mashed crix


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## carpe scorpio (Apr 28, 2005)

Thanks, I'll keep posting pics as events unfold with feeding and molting. There has been no cannibalism thus far, I have been lucky. I wonder if I can keep them full enough to avoid that?. When they start to molt at different intervals from eachother, I expect it will occur.


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## carpe scorpio (Apr 28, 2005)

Here are some shots of them feeding AGAIN today.


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## carpe scorpio (May 1, 2005)

I gave them a whole bunch of live crickets today and they didn't disappoint.


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## carpe scorpio (May 4, 2005)

UPDATE!, they are all extremely fat and I expect they will molt to 3rd instar very soon. Still have no casualties, although last night I observed (under UV) that at leat one is grotesquely deformed. Despite daily feedings, there appear to be a couple that haven't yet fed. I will post pics as soon as they molt.


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## Hoosier (May 4, 2005)

Those crickets are the fattest ones I've ever seen!  Maybe that's why you're scorplings are doing so well.  What are you gutloading them with?


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## prang11 (May 4, 2005)

carpe scorpio said:
			
		

> Well, today they started eating crickets. In some cases, up to four scorpions were seen feeding on each of the mashed crickets.



Gotta be one of the coolest pics I have seen in a long time.  So much going on.


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## carpe scorpio (May 5, 2005)

Hoosier said:
			
		

> Those crickets are the fattest ones I've ever seen!  Maybe that's why you're scorplings are doing so well.  What are you gutloading them with?


I actually have to get my crickets a day ahead just to give them time to fill up on the food, it's a dry food called "cricket-bites" by Nature Zone. I tried all the other stuff and this seems to work best with no smell or mess.


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## carpe scorpio (May 5, 2005)

prang11 said:
			
		

> Gotta be one of the coolest pics I have seen in a long time.  So much going on.


Thanks, I had placed the food there in hopes that they would pose for the shot, I just didn't expect them to cluster so well. Now that they are about to molt to 3rd instar, I don't think I will get many more pics like that one. I do hope to get some of post-molt.


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## Brian S (May 5, 2005)

Awesome Stan!!! 
Reminds me of the chicken hawk and Foghorn Leghorn in the cartoons lol


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## carpe scorpio (May 5, 2005)

Brian S said:
			
		

> Awesome Stan!!!
> Reminds me of the chicken hawk and Foghorn Leghorn in the cartoons lol


LOL!!, I never even thought of that. Last night I tossed in over 25 crickets and I see that there is only one left today. They are all digging individual scrapes right now. The mother is still eating 1-3 crickets a day, she looks like the "blueberry girl" from Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory.


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## carpe scorpio (May 6, 2005)

One very interesting behavioral observation I have made, is that this species engages in large amounts of "tail-wagging". I can look in on them at any time and witness this phenomenon whenever two of them encounter eachother.


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## Brian S (May 6, 2005)

My B jacksoni does the same thing I've noticed. I've always wondered the purpose of this.


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## carpe scorpio (May 7, 2005)

Brian S said:
			
		

> My B jacksoni does the same thing I've noticed. I've always wondered the purpose of this.


I find it quite remarkable, they seem to be using it as a sort of greeting/warning as if to "feel out" the other's intentions or activities.


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## Brian S (May 7, 2005)

Yeah it does seem like it is. I notice mine doing it when they first come out in the evenings then they won't do it anymore that I'm aware of anyway.


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## Deschain (May 7, 2005)

This thread is in the top five, of coolest threads ever posted in any forum. Thanks alot for sharing.  :clap:


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## carpe scorpio (May 20, 2005)

Deschain said:
			
		

> This thread is in the top five, of coolest threads ever posted in any forum. Thanks alot for sharing.  :clap:


Thanks, well, it has been one month and one day since they were born and the only real change at this point is extreme fatness. Tonight, if I can set it up and get it to work, I plan on making a UV video of them "teleporting" all over the place. I will need to find a good web-hosting site, any suggestions?.


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## Nocturnal (May 20, 2005)

I also like this thread and a video of them "teleporting" would be cool.  :clap:


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## carpe scorpio (May 20, 2005)

Nocturnal said:
			
		

> I also like this thread and a video of them "teleporting" would be cool.  :clap:


Cool, I'll try to shoot some decent footage of them.


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## carpe scorpio (May 21, 2005)

Well, that didn't work at all, the camera wouldn't pick up the UV nearly enough and after several seconds, they started heading in. I knew Centruroides were sensitive to UV, but I didn't realize 2nd instar Androctonus were. I guess I'll try for some daylight video, there is always at least one of them roaming around.


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## carpe scorpio (May 29, 2005)

No luck on the video,  I need a better camera. They are fattening up nicely, here's one taking a drink.


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## Brian S (May 30, 2005)

Wow!!! I'll say fattening up lol.


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## woodson (May 30, 2005)

congratulations! I can see the embryos.
How long is it?


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## carpe scorpio (May 30, 2005)

woodson said:
			
		

> congratulations! I can see the embryos.
> How long is it?


Thanks, but much has happened since the first post.


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## OneSickPuppy (Jun 5, 2005)

absolutely stunning pics. congrats not just on your family, but by your photography skills. I cant seem to get away from spending time daily reading this board and looking at pics of scorps. is it a sin to lust after thy neighbors scorpions?


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## carpe scorpio (Jun 5, 2005)

OneSickPuppy said:
			
		

> absolutely stunning pics. congrats not just on your family, but by your photography skills. I cant seem to get away from spending time daily reading this board and looking at pics of scorps. is it a sin to lust after thy neighbors scorpions?


Thanks, I actually need to get a better camera,but some of the shots were lucky. I see that you are in Texas, have you collected large numbers of C. vittatus yet?.


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## John Bokma (Jun 5, 2005)

carpe scorpio said:
			
		

> Thanks, well, it has been one month and one day since they were born and the only real change at this point is extreme fatness. Tonight, if I can set it up and get it to work, I plan on making a UV video of them "teleporting" all over the place. I will need to find a good web-hosting site, any suggestions?.


Prodigem, 100MB max, see http://johnbokma.com/mexit/2005/04/12/


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## carpe scorpio (Jun 5, 2005)

John Bokma said:
			
		

> Prodigem, 100MB max, see http://johnbokma.com/mexit/2005/04/12/


thanks a bunch, but I don't think I'm going to be shooting  vids of any scorps until I get a camera dedicated to that purpose.


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## John Bokma (Jun 5, 2005)

carpe scorpio said:
			
		

> thanks a bunch, but I don't think I'm going to be shooting  vids of any scorps until I get a camera dedicated to that purpose.


I used a 14 USD webcam for the UV shots  Connected to the PC, and used Virtual Dub to capture.

The "cricket" movie was made with a Sony videocamera (not mine, sadly).

I do recommend BitTorrent, at 100 MB free you can record about 10 minutes (or five 2 minute movies etc.) and it's easy to distribute. In two months my movies have been downloaded almost a 100 times, so I can only guess at how many people have seen them


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