# Illegal to own tarantulas in Florida



## keeper2013 (May 12, 2015)

Just got an email from the Florida Dept. of Agriculture and Consumer Services. They enforce the Florida laws on tarantulas. It is against Florida law to have tarantulas in your possession, to bring them into the state,  and to take or ship them across state border, without a permit. It is strictly prohibited to move them within the state. So what this means is you can not have a tarantula in Florida without a special permit. You cannot bring in from any other state a tarantula. You cannot transport a tarantula anywhere in Florida and you cannot sell any tarantulas out of state or even within the state because of the No Transport law. If you apply for the permit you are investigated, you must give in writing how many of every species you have and this has to be updated if it changes. All cages will be checked to see that they are locked. This dept. is run by Dr. Greg Hodges. Pretty strict laws. I'm sure the fines are very very high.

Reactions: Informative 1 | Sad 1


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## vespers (May 12, 2015)

....and why did you get this email from 'the Florida Dept. of Agriculture and Consumer Services',  especially considering your location says you live in Missouri?

Reactions: Like 3 | Informative 1 | Funny 1


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## DVirginiana (May 12, 2015)

As much as I'm generally against transport bans, the ones that are Florida-specific are usually a good idea IMO.  With sensitive ecosystems like the glades, you don't want spiders to become another Lacey target because some got out in Florida and effectively kill the hobby in every state.  It sucks if you're in Florida and want to keep T's, but it's similar to people from the Phillipines who I've talked to on frog forums that have to deal with strict import/export rules.  The ecological safety of an area should come before the hobby because once the damage is done people start targeting all keepers, not just ones in sensitive areas.

Reactions: Like 2


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## shawno821 (May 12, 2015)

What made you email to ask them,being that yo live in Mo.?


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## truecreature (May 12, 2015)

Maybe he/she is planning to move there


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## DVirginiana (May 12, 2015)

They could work for analogous agencies and get updates when policies change?  If you worked for a wildlife org. in Missouri you'd need to know if it were suddenly illegal for people to sell to Florida I guess?


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## cold blood (May 12, 2015)

DVirginiana said:


> As much as I'm generally against transport bans, the ones that are Florida-specific are usually a good idea IMO.  With sensitive ecosystems like the glades, you don't want spiders to become another Lacey target because some got out in Florida and effectively kill the hobby in every state.  It sucks if you're in Florida and want to keep T's, but it's similar to people from the Phillipines who I've talked to on frog forums that have to deal with strict import/export rules.  The ecological safety of an area should come before the hobby because once the damage is done people start targeting all keepers, not just ones in sensitive areas.


Thing is that t's are much different than say, reptiles in that respect.   Many, if not most of the tropical would not survive the winters, especially the years where they get good frosts.   The ones that would be able to survive, just don't spread out like other animals tend to.   A prime example is the population of B. vagans that were introduced to an orange grove several decades ago.   Despite pesticides and many eradication attempts, they still persist...however, they are still confined to a small area within that orange grove and have not caused a single issue like a typical invasive might.


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## purevl (May 12, 2015)

Not sure how much faith I'd put into that email.  According to the website, FDACS is run by Commisioner Adam H. Putnam, not Greg Hodges.  The only Dr. Greg Hodges I can find relating to anything arthropod-wise is the Curator of Coccinea and Aleyrodidae at the Florida State Collection of Arthropods.  (http://www.fsca-dpi.org/entomologists/hodges.htm)


Beyond that, According to this form at the FDACS website there's really no issue at all when it comes to tarantulas.

http://www.freshfromflorida.com/con...42/Guideline-for-Importing-Exotic-and-Non.pdf

"I. Regular: Permit request normally will be automatically approved. Organisms in this category:
...
Arachnida:
 Araneae: Family Theraphosidae (tarantulas)
..."

So, yes, you need a permit but it doesn't look difficult to get one.


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## KcFerry (May 12, 2015)

keeper2013 said:


> Just got an email from the Florida Dept. of Agriculture and Consumer Services. They enforce the Florida laws on tarantulas. It is against Florida law to have tarantulas in your possession, to bring them into the state,  and to take or ship them across state border, without a permit. It is strictly prohibited to move them within the state. So what this means is you can not have a tarantula in Florida without a special permit. You cannot bring in from any other state a tarantula. You cannot transport a tarantula anywhere in Florida and you cannot sell any tarantulas out of state or even within the state because of the No Transport law. If you apply for the permit you are investigated, you must give in writing how many of every species you have and this has to be updated if it changes. All cages will be checked to see that they are locked. This dept. is run by Dr. Greg Hodges. Pretty strict laws. I'm sure the fines are very very high.


Is this for real?
I just did a search on changes to Fl. state laws on tarantulas and can't find anything to validate your claim.
Do you have a link to where this may be posted?


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## Tim Benzedrine (May 12, 2015)

Poec can probably provide info on this.


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## ratluvr76 (May 12, 2015)

Tim Benzedrine said:


> Poec can probably provide info on this.


I hope for poecs sake it's not true...


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## Angel Minkov (May 12, 2015)

Tim Benzedrine said:


> Poec can probably provide info on this.


I was wondering how he would react to this...


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## Sentinel (May 12, 2015)

New T owner here, but not new to this subject. I'm a big herp guy too. Florida, as gloomy as it is, is now serving as something of a cautionary tale about bad pet owners.

Ever since some lazy and irresponsible people released Burmese Pythons into the Everglades and canals, Florida has been in hyper-drive ban mode. They're even thinking of banning Ball Pythons from what I hear. Ball Pythons, of all things! Society... well. It works itself into a furor and freaks out like a soccer mom sometimes. 

If people just were more responsible, and TRUSTED their animals more, then maybe things like this wouldn't happen.

What I find funny about the whole "illegal to keep tarantulas" notion is this: beekeepers. Every state has them and it's legal to keep hundreds of thousands of bees that require a suit to deal with, but one tarantula, oh no, Armageddon. I knew a kid who kept Copperheads in my neighborhood that he would catch. Did animal control bust in and take them? No. 

It seems like if it doesn't hurt anyone except possibly you? People should just calm down. You're ultimately responsible as the pet owner.

Reactions: Like 1


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## tonypace2009 (May 12, 2015)

Honestly I would like to see the evidence of a invasive tarantula. How do they define invasive? For instance how many specimens released, growth rate plus survival rate. How long would it take for any species to take over a 1/2 mile area? And I am aware of brachypelma vagens  in Florida  but after   Over 20 years are they invasive or considered just a population? Before they put out fines I want to see their math. Remember the word invasive  is a scare  tattic used when they want a majority vote. Less than a year ago they jailed a 80 year old man for feeding a invasive species they called homeless population of people. Don't get me wrong I loved living in Florida but they have their own politics and laws. The hobby has been trying to develop a population of many species in the hobby and even with proper care its hard to do for some species.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Sentinel (May 12, 2015)

Florida does seem to be a... "unique" location for invasive species. Everything invasive seems to have been intentionally released there, it's like Murphy's Law constantly.

I'm a big aquarist, and I read recently that there are large Hypostomus Plecostomus populations now breeding in the everglades. These are the "Sucker Fish" you see in pet stores. I however, truly doubt that tarantulas would become invasive. Too much water! Too many birds to eat them. Swampy marsh, not good for terrestrial species. And the heat! That would kill the T's more than anything, in my opinion. Now, some of the most tropical T's conceivably could survive for a very small amount of time, but they'd die out there quickly.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Anubis77 (May 12, 2015)

Sentinel said:


> Ever since some lazy and irresponsible people released Burmese Pythons into the Everglades and canals, Florida has been in hyper-drive ban mode. They're even thinking of banning Ball Pythons from what I hear. Ball Pythons, of all things! Society... well. It works itself into a furor and freaks out like a soccer mom sometimes.
> 
> If people just were more responsible, and TRUSTED their animals more, then maybe things like this wouldn't happen.


It's not fair to put the blame entirely on intentional action by pet owners. A few could have released their pets into the everglades, but it's hard to imagine that a slow trickle of releases would have led to an establishment of a healthy population. Blame Hurricane Andrew:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...gue-of-Burmese-pythons-in-the-Everglades.html


> Anywhere between 20,000 and 150,000 are now estimated to be on the loose there. While, individual releases of unwanted pets contribute to the numbers, most are thought to be the descendants of baby pythons inadvertently freed when Hurricane Andrew ripped through the region in 1992.
> 
> The category 5 winds flattened the town of Homestead, including hatcheries and pet dealers where the new-borns were incubated in small plastic food storage cups and bowls in exposed areas. The babies are thought to have been blown into the neighbouring Everglades where survivors started breeding. Most pythons caught or found dead there in recent years had very similar DNA, bolstering the theory.

Reactions: Like 5


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## Sentinel (May 12, 2015)

Anubis77 said:


> It's not fair to put the blame entirely on intentional action by pet owners. A few could have released their pets into the everglades, but it's hard to imagine that a slow trickle of releases would have led to an establishment of a healthy population. Blame Hurricane Andrew:
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...gue-of-Burmese-pythons-in-the-Everglades.html


Of course acts of God/nature have a big effect as well, but there seems to be a never ending cycle of people releasing things into Florida swamps and canals that should not be there. I wouldn't be surprised if Snakeheads and Silver Carp were swimming in the waters, or even a small population of Cuban Tree Snakes on the land. 

I mean you hear about this every day it seems. "Big raid on illegal smuggling ring", "Child releases African Rock Pythons into Everglades, parents didn't know", "Giant African Land Snails eat whole gardens and hunger for more in Florida suburbs". It's just crazy, man.


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## DVirginiana (May 12, 2015)

In response to the person who posted about bees and copperheads; these restrictions revolve around how invasive an animal could potentially be, not how dangerous it is to humans.

I think the vagans population is actually an excellent example of why they WOULD be banned.  No they haven't spread, but they haven't been able to eradicate them either.  With an ecosystem that draws international attention like the glades do (seriously, if I'm remembering correctly from my wetlands work the only one that consistently gets more attention in wetland circles is one in Iran) you're always going to have people who'd rather err on the side of caution.  No, most people won't ever let their pets out, but escapes aren't uncommon in this hobby.  Heck on another forum there was this lunatic who would randomly leave his spiders out in the woods so they could experience nature!
I would like to say that only tarantulas that could survive in Florida should be added to the list, but there you have the problem of enforcement.  Say someone wants to bring a shipment of ball pythons into the state: very little training needed to distinguish from the Lacey species.  T's are a lot harder to properly ID.

Understand I don't fully know all the implications of this particular ban so I don't know if I support it or not, but as an ecologist what I'd like to see is legislation that allows responsible keepers/breeders to keep doing what they're doing but STRONGLY discourages people who may be irresponsible in ecologically sensitive areas like this.


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## Sentinel (May 12, 2015)

"In response to the person who posted about bees and copperheads; these restrictions revolve around how invasive an animal could potentially be, not how dangerous it is to humans."

Point taken, but I would imagine all types of bees, wasps, hornets would be able to be invasive in Florida's high heat, high sunlight, high flora, high humidity environment. Let's just hope someone doesn't introduce Asian Giant Hornets (Japanese Giant Hornets) or Africanized Killer Bees.


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## cold blood (May 12, 2015)

tonypace2009 said:


> Honestly I would like to see the evidence of a invasive tarantula. How do they define invasive? For instance how many specimens released, growth rate plus survival rate. How long would it take for any species to take over a 1/2 mile area? And I am aware of brachypelma vagens  in Florida  but after   Over 20 years are they invasive or considered just a population? Before they put out fines I want to see their math. Remember the word invasive  is a scare  tattic used when they want a majority vote. Less than a year ago they jailed a 80 year old man for feeding a invasive species they called homeless population of people. Don't get me wrong I loved living in Florida but they have their own politics and laws. The hobby has been trying to develop a population of many species in the hobby and even with proper care its hard to do for some species.


I would define it as an isolated population and not an invasive.  

Invasive says to me, problems....problems with population, that population displacing resident populations or decimating them or infestation (massive population explosions like seen in Austrailia with rabbits and cane toads) that cannot be controlled.    

As vagans is, and has been very localized, not displaced or effected resident populations (that I've ever heard of), even after a very significant amount of time, vagans just doesn't qualify as such in my eyes.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Tim Benzedrine (May 12, 2015)

Yeah, pretty much a colony. Now, maybe given enough time they could spread, but I'm not even sure they could be qualified as invasive even at that, in the accepted definition of the term. A spider could be an invader, but generally I think "invasive" is defined by rapid spread with a detrimental effect in the environment. I think there are non natives that have established themselves here that merely established themselves without much in the way of negative impact. I'm not a biologist, but would think that things such as a rapidly expanding population, competing with native species, agricultural impact, threat to humans, vectors for disease and probably many more pieces of criteria would be involved in categorizing a species as an invasive species of concern. On the other hand, the example of B. vagans must not be that big of a concern because I'd think we'd have heard more about measures taken to eradicate them.


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## DVirginiana (May 12, 2015)

In biology there's no real set definition between what defines a non-native and what defines an invasive, but it's basically the same as what's been said.
If they can form stable breeding populations (like the vagans seem to) as opposed to just the survival of an individual, then I'd say they are way closer to being considered invasive than just non-native.
The 'skunk ape' down in Florida is a good example of a non-native IMO.  Seems like someone threw out a chimp that has been able to survive, but it's just him and he's not breeding.


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## Slimdean (May 12, 2015)

No sure how true that is because there are several stores here in Orlano that sell tarantulas. One of them being petland, I could understand the other being mom and pops and just being shadey but petland I'm pretty sure couldn't be sneaky about it if they actively investigate.


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## tonypace2009 (May 12, 2015)

Slimdean said:


> No sure how true that is because there are several stores here in Orlano that sell tarantulas. One of them being petland, I could understand the other being mom and pops and just being shadey but petland I'm pretty sure couldn't be sneaky about it if they actively investigate.


the Op said they just received email of regulations mite be new just passed.I would like to view the regulation with my own eyes. But Florida likes to make and pass laws and regulations without others even knowing about it. I really hope this is a false alarm. The biggest issue I see with a tarantula ban is it will make sneaking them in and out profitable. Bans never work if there is a demand a supply will become available. Permits are usually just a way to make money. Honestly if they require a permit hopefully it doesn't cost much. Right now I have a non native fire ants that I am apparently keeping and native mosquitoes and hope wildlife and FISHERIES WILL COM AND CONFISCATE.


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## shawno821 (May 12, 2015)

We been trolled....

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## vespers (May 13, 2015)

shawno821 said:


> We been trolled....


I'm starting to think so too...keeper2013 was on the forum last night, many hours after starting this thread and never responded any further.

Reactions: Like 1


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## horanjp (May 13, 2015)

Nobody on AB lives in Florida, right?

RIGHT?

:sarcasm:

shhhhh....

Reactions: Like 1


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## BobGrill (May 13, 2015)

That information is outdated.  Ask poec if you don't believe me.

Reactions: Like 1


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## XBabysinX (May 15, 2015)

I've heard this rumor but I for one see no evidence to support it, I've done plenty of research. Honestly I could careless about it whether it's true or not because I'll always own tarantulas, they can ban them without permits all they want, Florida will not steal my happiness.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Chris LXXIX (May 15, 2015)

XBabysinX said:


> I've heard this rumor but I for one see no evidence to support it, I've done plenty of research. Honestly I could careless about it whether it's true or not because I'll always own tarantulas, they can ban them without permits all they want, Florida will not steal my happiness.


I agree with you, honest Tarantulas enthusiasts/scholars have the right to own worldwide and care for their precious little creatures. Ban Tarantulas = Unfair

Reactions: Like 2


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## Spoodergirl (Oct 26, 2018)

Sentinel said:


> New T owner here, but not new to this subject. I'm a big herp guy too. Florida, as gloomy as it is, is now serving as something of a cautionary tale about bad pet owners.
> 
> Ever since some lazy and irresponsible people released Burmese Pythons into the Everglades and canals, Florida has been in hyper-drive ban mode. They're even thinking of banning Ball Pythons from what I hear. Ball Pythons, of all things! Society... well. It works itself into a furor and freaks out like a soccer mom sometimes.
> 
> ...


Burmese pythons escaped from a breeding facility during a hurricane-not irresponsible pet owners.  Fact.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## antinous (Oct 26, 2018)

Spoodergirl said:


> Burmese pythons escaped from a breeding facility during a hurricane-not irresponsible pet owners.  Fact.


This threads a bit old, but even though most of the Burmese pythons did escape during the hurricane, there are bound to have been some that have been some as by irresponsible pet owners as well

Reactions: Agree 1


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## MetalMan2004 (Oct 26, 2018)

Spoodergirl said:


> Burmese pythons escaped from a breeding facility during a hurricane-not irresponsible pet owners.  Fact.


Thats a 3 year old fight you’re picking there...

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 2


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## SonsofArachne (Oct 27, 2018)

MetalMan2004 said:


> Thats a 3 year old fight you’re picking there...


Reminds me of my mom getting together with my aunts.

Reactions: Funny 6


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