# Substrate



## sanni (May 21, 2013)

Firstly I have read http://people.ucalgary.ca/~schultz/substrate-010.html on substrate. My question is about this:

"Tarantulas insist on firmly packed substrate. They abhor loose, fluffy stuff that moves under their "feet," or that they sink into. Pack it hard! If your substrate of choice is too friable, you may either have to change to a different substrate, or even mix a little garden loam with your substrate to firm it up. Start with one part by volume of loam to three parts by volume of your favorite substrate. Mix it and test it. Don't be afraid to add more loam if you need to in order to make your substrate firm enough to allow solid footing and a stable burrow."

I am usung cocohusk (plantation soil) as my substrate but its very dry and "fluffy". To get rid of the fluff what should I add to it. Available choises at my shop would be either Exo Terra Desert Sand or Zoo med Excavator Clay. 

Thanks for advice


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## Rhodin (May 21, 2013)

If your T sits just fine on the substrate then I wouldn't suggest changing anything as your T will likely be less comfortable having to deal with an unnecessary substrate change. Generally after hydrating a brick of eco earth I will pack it down as good as I can in the enclosure so that it won't dry too loose, but even if you didn't do that it likely wont be a problem. Adding a bit of the excavator clay will thicken up your sub but really isn't necessary. You could also choose to use top soil or peat moss as a better burrowing substrate as it holds moisture well and keeps it's shape.

The only time I had issues with substrate being too loose was when I bought bagged eco earth and the T I had on it would likely leave little dots in the sub wherever it walked around.


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## sanni (May 21, 2013)

The problem is when s/he walks arounf the substrate moves under its feet. Also when i toss in a roach for it the roach just rolls on the substrate. i tried to pack it tight but seems the top of it is loose. She has however been ok on it for some days now. I know she is getting ready for a molt soon and has put down some webbing too. 

A friend of mine mixed the excavator clay with plantation soil for a burrowing T and the look of it was good and firm. He had a bigger ration to the soil then what I would plan to use but then the type of spider is different too. Just thinkig what would be best the next time I do have to alter its home. Im worried to get anything other than what is sold in my pet shop that I use since a gardening shop may have anything in it. Also I dont want a huge bag and would not know what to look for so it would be clean and not start to grow things. So really those two materials mentioned above are my options. 

May try to use the excavator clay with just the most top layer of the substrate to even it out. But not doing any of this till after s/he molts and has recovered from the molt too.


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## Rhodin (May 21, 2013)

"Just thinking what would be best the next time I do have to alter its home." I wouldn't suggest altering it's home often if at all, it just causes stress. Like I said unless your T seems overly uncomfortable on the substrate and avoids walking on it you really shouldn't bother with changing it.

Also soil sold in gardening shops is likely cheaper for larger quantities and should have ingredients listed on the bag. If you were to tell the person at the store that you planned on using the soil for keeping live animals on and don't want any pesticides/fertilizers I'm sure they could help you find a good bag. As far as growing things I've heard of mushrooms and mold growing on eco earth and peat moss so other than pure sand(which is a less than preferred substrate for most if not all Ts) you'll likely get growth out of any substrate not kept 100% dry


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## sanni (May 21, 2013)

Ok. Thanks for the advice. I gues I will wait for the molt and then see how it goes after that. If she still looks like shes not making a home of it I will re-do in. But if shes ok I will let her and her home be.    Jut the problem is when I first did the terrarium I did not put enough substrate in and I really should addsome 3-5 cm to it. So eventually I will have to do that no matter what.    Just not now since I know shes in premolt. Then again if shes happy and stops climing the walls I may not add the substrate then. Complicaed little creachers.


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## Rhodin (May 21, 2013)

sanni said:


> Ok. Thanks for the advice. I gues I will wait for the molt and then see how it goes after that. If she still looks like shes not making a home of it I will re-do in. But if shes ok I will let her and her home be.    Jut the problem is when I first did the terrarium I did not put enough substrate in and I really should addsome 3-5 cm to it. So eventually I will have to do that no matter what.    Just not now since I know shes in premolt. Then again if shes happy and stops climing the walls I may not add the substrate then. Complicaed little creachers.


Would you mind posting a picture or two that shows your enclosure and T? The one time I would suggest changing substrate/amount is if there is a real possibility for a fatal fall from the roof of the enclosure to the ground. If it's a terrestrial/opportunistic burrower T and not an obligate burrower it doesn't have to be very high at all especially since most terrestrial/opportunistic burrowers will not burrow in captivity and usually just make use of whatever hides we give them. Anyway if you really don't feel happy with the way your enclosure looks be it substrate height/look, plant/hide arrangement,etc I would suggest doing one big change to get it the way you want it then just leave the T alone not changing anything for a good year+


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## sanni (May 21, 2013)

I actually have a couple pictures in this thread here. http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?248016-B.-smithi-enclosure
Its a 30x30x30 cube (even it looks real tall in the photo) but the back has been pulled forward to make it a 15x30x30. So far I have only seen her climb about 3-4 cm in height. 

In it you had shared a pick of your G.rosea suggesting to add some substrate to the rim of the front edge. (as with other saying to put more subbstrate too)This actually had been my original plan and I have no idea why i did not go with that plan. Silly me since now I need to fix it. 

Here is a picture of my Toxy in her home. S/he is 5cm ls but is ready to molt any day (or week). lol. So guessing from the size of its sibling my friend has she will then be about 7cm ls?


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## Rhodin (May 21, 2013)

sanni said:


> I actually have a couple pictures in this thread here. http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?248016-B.-smithi-enclosure
> Its a 30x30x30 cube (even it looks real tall in the photo) but the back has been pulled forward to make it a 15x30x30. So far I have only seen her climb about 3-4 cm in height.
> 
> In it you had shared a pick of your G.rosea suggesting to add some substrate to the rim of the front edge. (as with other saying to put more subbstrate too)This actually had been my original plan and I have no idea why i did not go with that plan. Silly me since now I need to fix it.
> ...


I would suggest pushing the foam backing all the way back as it will let you angle the substrate more. Having extra ground space never really hurts other than it making it a bit more difficult to find food(trust me it will still find the food). Anyway yea raise the substrate level using a mix of eco earth and excavator if you want(maybe your friend will let you use some of his remaining excavator for a smaller price than a full bag?) and I'm sure your T will do fine.


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## Stan Schultz (May 21, 2013)

sanni said:


> ... Available choises at my shop would be either Exo Terra Desert Sand or Zoo med Excavator Clay. ...


Think outside the box ... or rather the shop. This time of year nearly every natural food store is selling natural and organic garden loam. If you can't find any in your area, how about visiting your friendly, neighborhood, garden/horticultural/landscaping center. I'll bet they have piles of loam, coconut husk, and horticultural peat laying all over the place. At 1/3 the price you pay in the pet shop. Or less.

Also, not all brands of shredded coconut husk are the same. Some have additives, others are of different consistency or grind size. Shop around. Experiment. As long as the tarantula isn't molting, it won't hurt it one bit to experience one, two, or even three cage changes in a month or two. Once you find a brand and source you like make a note of it and stick to it unless you eventually find something better.


Enjoy your little 8-legged substrate connoisseur!


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## sanni (May 23, 2013)

The problem with going to a gardening shop is all they have are huge 10kg bags of dirt and everything even the organic (what can be gotten in a 5kg bag) sais its fertilized. So I dont trust them to be safe. Id just prefer to know what I get is made safe for pets and thats why my options are from the reptile shop. Other then that I try to think outside the box as much as I can.   

Thanks for all the advise to both of you. Will do some experimenting once shes done with her molting and is eating again.


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## EightLeggedFreaks (May 23, 2013)

I've honestly never packed it down.  All my T's do fine.  Never end up on the side of the glass unless they are arboreal.  I have OBT's, H.Lividum, N.Tripeppi's all on loose soil.  They dig themselves burrows and I've never seen them on the side of the enclosure.  Even my 5.5 inch LP sits just fine on loose soil.  I use the ECO Earth bricks, wet them, let them expand, then take it, ring it out, and let it dry in a tote.  I always have excess drying on the side in case I need it.


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## Msh (May 28, 2013)

I use the bagged Eco earth mixed about 50/50 with sphagnum peat moss which I think makes a pretty nice substrate blend. I stopped getting those bricks mainly because I was having mold issues from the coco not drying out well after preparing the brick not to mention the hassle of preparing them. The peat moss is only a few bucks a bag so cuts the costs on top of it. Also I've noticed much less problems with mold with this substrate mixture. Maybe some peat added to your substrate would help give you what your looking for if you can find a good source.


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## Anderson (May 28, 2013)

T's will pat down the area around their hide or where they hang out on their own. In the wild a T can end up living in all different areas my T's live in ABG mixed with sand or coco fiber or whatever, they web over the parts they don't like and organize a spot that works for them. In my experience its it more important that the substrate is dry for many T's. if they end up on the glass and its not an arboreal it means they don't like their situation.


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## josh_r (May 31, 2013)

I always prefer to use substrates that closely mimic what they are naturally found on. You will never find tarantulas living in or on cocopeat or sphagnum peat in the wild. Instead, they live in soils comprised of mineral earths and humus (clays, sands, aggregate, loam, humus, etc) You can easily make a soil that similarly mimics their natural soils by combining clay, sand, and peat in different parts until it closely mimics what they came from... whatever you do, just make sure it is a nice loamy consistency..


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