# DIY backdrops, what do you use?



## iamthegame06 (Oct 27, 2013)

hey guys! so im thinking about making some backdrops, i saw RobC's video on how to make one, then he made another video that says "Do not use GEII caulk for backdrops!" (which was the caulk he used for the DIY video) and he recommended the use of 5005 or something..so i went to walmart, target, and home depot yesterday and they didnt have it..i know you can  get it online, but im trying to avoid having to pay for the shipping and stuff because im only doing a couple of backdrops, i just dont think it's worth it lol..so my questions are; are there any other alternatives? what do you guys use? brand name? and where do you get it from? would any other non toxic adhesive work? like say maybe a non toxic glue? thanks in advance! 



oops! should've posted this on the "Vivariums and Terrariums" section..my bad!


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## gizmosdeath (Oct 27, 2013)

You can use GE I silicone and that will work just fine. I think that the best place to look for your questions is on the Dendroboards because most of those people are doing dart frog setups and thus they are always dealing with a lot of moisture. Also, I think dart frog are a lot more fragile than T's. I have used GE I with no problems but you definitely need to make sure that you give it several weeks to cure. I also just did a background using Great Stuff foam, acrylic paint and Polyurethane varnish and it worked like a charm. After spraying the whole thing with the Polyurethane I let it cure for almost a month until I could hardly smell it anymore. I now have that tank set up for my 2 P. Metallica females(It's a split tank). I also did a viv setup using the silicone thinning method and it came out awesome it's messy though and a pain to mix. HERE is a link to the site that I fallowed if your interested. You can also coat the background with silicone and then pres moss/coco fiber into it but it won't last as long as the other method. I have heard of other people using Gorilla Glue but I haven't tried it myself but I would like to someday. GS foam gives you a really good start to you background though. 

Here is a pic of how mine turned out.

View attachment 121732

Reactions: Like 1


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## iamthegame06 (Oct 27, 2013)

wow! yours looks awesome man! i'll definitely check out that GE I silicone! Gorilla glue sounds sketchy, im not sure if its non toxic..have to check that out too lol i like the acrylic paint idea though, seems easier lol is any acrylic paint safe? spray paint ones?


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## gizmosdeath (Oct 27, 2013)

Thanks man. Took me a while to get it all done. If you go to Wal-Mart in the hobby paint section I think that most of the acrylic paint is nontoxic. That's what I used and that's what most of the guys on the dendroboards use too.


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## iamthegame06 (Oct 27, 2013)

so i just went to walmart and bought a spray paint..i talked to a guy who works there and he gave me a "Krylon" spray paint, he said it was non-toxic, but now that reading the thing on the back, im kinda sketched out because it doesnt say it's non toxic anywhere -.-


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## gizmosdeath (Oct 28, 2013)

iamthegame06 said:


> so i just went to walmart and bought a spray paint..i talked to a guy who works there and he gave me a "Krylon" spray paint, he said it was non-toxic, but now that reading the thing on the back, im kinda sketched out because it doesnt say it's non toxic anywhere -.-


Yeah you might want to try and find as much info on the web as you can about that particular paint. Or try calling one of their reps and finding out for sure. I was even a little unclear on the acrylics that I bought but I went online and the company stated that all their acrylic paints were non toxic. You can never be too careful with your T's. If you haven't yet you should really check out that dendroboard though. Those guys know from trial and error what works and what doesn't.


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## MatthewM1 (Oct 28, 2013)

GeII kitchen and bathroom has mold inhibitors and shouldn't be used but the window and door is safe. You can also pick up titebond III wood glue. Mix it with coco fiber spread it on, let it dry a week, repeat, this time spread coco fiber over there top of it and press it in, let it sit over night and shake of the excess then give it another week before using it. 

Sent from my LG-P930 using Tapatalk 2


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## edgeofthefreak (Oct 28, 2013)

I tried using regular caulking, but didn't notice the 'anti-fungus/mold/mildew' on the side of the tube. Big chemical smell that didn't really go away. Filled the tank with plants, which are thriving, but added isopods and they all died.

So now, I'm testing out Titebond III with substrate. I like what it does so far, but I was not expecting it to be so thin of a substance. Two methods: first was to mix sub + titebond in a bowl and spread onto styrofoam; second was to spread as much titebond onto the styrofoam first, then press substrate. I'll post pictures soon of the results, but I'm liking the second method.


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## gizmosdeath (Oct 28, 2013)

On the tank above I used GEI and GEII and haven't had a problem with it. I have a tone of Dwarf White isopods in it too. I let the tank air out for about a month after completing it and allowed time for the silicone to cure completely. I liked working with the GEI better though cause I didn't have as much shrinkage when it dried and it also seemed like it was easier to mix and apply. My only problem now is the fact that I have a ton of mites in it and I wanted to try and kill them off without losing all of my isopods too. So i either have to get a different mite species to wipe them out or just clean the whole thing out and get more isopods. Also, I have noticed mites crawling all over the silicone so I think as long as you give it enough time to cure you should be fine.


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## iamthegame06 (Oct 28, 2013)

thanks for the inputs guys! i will have to try that titebond thing..i haven't used the spray paint yet because im still sketched out by it lol but I did an experiment last night, got a piece of foam (not sure what brand but it was from one of the T's I ordered a while back..then I used Elmer's glue, the non toxic one for kids..so I applied that onto the foam and put potting soil on top of it..I checked it this morning, and it surprisingly worked lol I'm not sure how good the glue is though, so we'll see once it completely dries up..it's non toxic so it shouldn't harm the T's right?


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## edgeofthefreak (Oct 28, 2013)

The only support I can say for Titebond III (not other ones like I and II) is waterproof. Most of our spiders do not care much for humidiy, but there is the odd time that a water bowl get knocked over.... 
Still testing my Titebond pieces, I'll try to post pics soon.


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## edgeofthefreak (Oct 28, 2013)

So big pics incoming. And maybe a little thread hijacking too.

These are the result of my first experiments with Titebond III. First 2 images are an 'oatmeal-like' mix spread onto styrofoam. The other 2 images are a of a thick spread of Titebond, then dry substrate pressed firm.
Included is the brush thing I use... have a whole bag of 'em.




This looks fairly wet still but it is very dry, and very very rigid. It's incredibly solid, almost too much. Might even cause injury to something that fell or slid across the surface.



May need to thin out the mix before adding. Heard that adding small amounts of water can help this method out.



This method is patchy, and I'm told to do this method twice, for a second coat.



This close up shows the patchiness, and where I'd really need to cover up.


There's may be a method in between these two. Covering the first layer in oatmeal-style, then a coating of thick spread dry pressed sub to give it a more natural look.
I'll run these under a tap for a few minutes to test the waterproofing.

Also, apologies for the hijacking.

Reactions: Like 1


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## gizmosdeath (Oct 28, 2013)

Actually what you did with titebond looks a lot like what I did with silicone. It might have been cheaper too. If you don't mind me asking how much did you spend on the titebond? I also used another method on the construction of the bottom half of the above cabinet. I spread silicone on the foam and pressed the coco fiber on. I also had to use several coatings to cover the bald spots. I will throw up a few before during and after pics for you guys. 

To keep the wood from swelling and rotting I covered the inside with a layer of silicone. If you can see in the photos there is a space at the bottom of each cabinet. I did that for attaching a heat pad to the glass. It gets really cold in my living room especially in the winter so I needed an extra source of heat. As an added precaution I took epoxy resin and coated the bottom of each half.

View attachment 121761


Then I added the foam bark and everything else that was going to be held in place. I used these biodegradable pots that I found at Wal-Mart for creating plantable spots in the foam. 

View attachment 121764


This was the finished version of the bottom half of the cabinet and you guys already saw the top. I'm really happy with the way it turned out. The bottom half is going to be used for a terrestrial desert setup and the top for an arboreal setup if I can ever get the mite problem taken care of. Also, I have computer case fans mounted to the back of the cabinet for added air flow when I need it. There are air holes drilled in the back of each half so that I can circulate air through. 

View attachment 121760






BTW EDGEOFTHEFREAK, hijack all you want. It's called a discussion board for a reason :biggrin: Besides, I try to get as much info as I can for future projects. I'm really curious about trying the titebond now. IMO I like the wet substrate look better but I suppose it depends on your end goal.

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## gizmosdeath (Oct 28, 2013)

iamthegame06 said:


> thanks for the inputs guys! i will have to try that titebond thing..i haven't used the spray paint yet because im still sketched out by it lol but I did an experiment last night, got a piece of foam (not sure what brand but it was from one of the T's I ordered a while back..then I used Elmer's glue, the non toxic one for kids..so I applied that onto the foam and put potting soil on top of it..I checked it this morning, and it surprisingly worked lol I'm not sure how good the glue is though, so we'll see once it completely dries up..it's non toxic so it shouldn't harm the T's right?


Hey, I took a couple pics for you so that you can see what the acrylic paint looks like. It didn't come out too bad. I tried to make mine look like wood in the background but it probably would have looked better painted like a rock wall.

View attachment 121765

View attachment 121766

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mandiblehead (Oct 28, 2013)

Well I think its pretty obvious that I need to make one of these asap


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## edgeofthefreak (Oct 29, 2013)

I clearly need to get some paint skills.

I bought a 16oz bottle of Titebond III from a store called Busy Bee Tools, for about $16.99. I used about 1.5oz on the test set above... so I'm already thinking of picking the 128oz bottle, which is $45. I'll post again after I do a second coat.

Great thread! I tried the silicone method, but bought caulking instead. Titebond is almost like water compared to silicone/caulking. Much tougher to get a thick layer, so in many places 2 coats would be needed. I'm not sure if Titebond ever goes on sale though... so silicone can be a very cheap method if the timing is right.

Also, using biodegradable pots is brilliant!


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## gizmosdeath (Oct 29, 2013)

The cheapest place that I have found to buy silicone was Wal-Mart and its about $3.50 a tube and If I remember right it took me about 6 tubes just to do the top part of that cabinet. If the Titebond works the same it's cheaper to go that route. I know you said that the Titebond came out pretty rigid but does it have any give at all or is it like stone hard? When you have T's that are used to walking on tree bark or rough stone/ground I wouldn't think it would be too bad for them unless it turns the coco fiber into razor blades. The problem with the silicone is its so stiff even after you dilute it with mineral spirits that it's really hard to work with. You have to change your latex gloves every couple minutes. 3 tubes of calk only covered half of my taller cabinet.


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## viper69 (Oct 29, 2013)

This is a great thread you guys. The pictures are worth a thousand words. The Dendro communitiy is definitely the place to learn more about creating vivariums for exotic pets. I haven't seen a community better at it then them due to the nature of their pets. I do know that they are super helpful. I've talked to a lot of them at meetings, and all the breeders were really helpful. These pictures as well as others on this board give me inspiration to create my own setup with a spray foam backing. Someone did on the board here took some nice pictures of the work in progress, it was helpful!!

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## iamthegame06 (Oct 29, 2013)

you guys did a really good job on yours!! wow! i have a long way to go and a lot of practicing to do on how to make those haha im sold to that titebond thing! definitely picking some of those up asap! i checked out Dendro and man! they have sick enclosures! got some really good ideas! cant wait to start making mine this weekend lol


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## viper69 (Oct 29, 2013)

iamthegame06 said:


> you guys did a really good job on yours!! wow! i have a long way to go and a lot of practicing to do on how to make those haha im sold to that titebond thing! definitely picking some of those up asap! i checked out Dendro and man! they have sick enclosures! got some really good ideas! cant wait to start making mine this weekend lol


The best enclosures I've seen come from the Dendor community. I was at a reptile show once, and man, these dart breeders had some that looked like the jungle had been dropped into their tanks. They were so impressive. I need to join that forum and get some ideas.


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## gizmosdeath (Oct 29, 2013)

I would say that the only prob you have to watch out for following the dendroboards is the fact that those guys need really high humidity for dart frogs as where we don't. So those guys go all out with misting systems and all. You just need to keep in mind that mites love that kind of enclosure. if you can get a half way decent ecosystem going in your tank though it should be ok.


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## Thistles (Oct 29, 2013)

As others have said, Dendroboards is a great resource. I kept frogs before keeping Ts, and some of my old habits have indeed died hard. I make backgrounds for all my arboreals, and I mostly use Gorilla Glue. I put the glue directly onto the back of the tank then add the substrate. I usually use a mix of materials to add interest rather than just straight coco coir. With frogs I made clay backgrounds, but those don't work for Ts. I have used silicone before, but I like the foaming and expansion of the Gorilla Glue. It's not as extreme as the Great Stuff, which lets me use it in smaller tanks.


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## gizmosdeath (Oct 29, 2013)

Good to know about the gorilla glue. I was curious about that but gorilla glue isn't cheap so doubt I'll be making one anytime soon.


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## MatthewM1 (Oct 29, 2013)

Frogforum is another good resource for stuff like this, lots of talented tree frog and dart frog keepers with some awesome builds. 

Also GE makes a spray foam similar to great stuff. It was cheaper at the Walmart near me and also worked better Imo. Seemed to cure faster with less shrinkage. 

Sent from my LG-P930 using Tapatalk 2


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## viper69 (Oct 29, 2013)

Thistles said:


> As others have said, Dendroboards is a great resource. I kept frogs before keeping Ts, and some of my old habits have indeed died hard. I make backgrounds for all my arboreals, and I mostly use Gorilla Glue. I put the glue directly onto the back of the tank then add the substrate. I usually use a mix of materials to add interest rather than just straight coco coir. With frogs I made clay backgrounds, but those don't work for Ts. I have used silicone before, but I like the foaming and expansion of the Gorilla Glue. It's not as extreme as the Great Stuff, which lets me use it in smaller tanks.


Do you have in pics of your frog setups? Esp in series from beginning to end?


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## PlaidJaguar (Oct 30, 2013)

Anybody ever make a removable backdrop?  Or install one into an inhabited tank?

My A. geroldi is in a half-moon enclosure with a large chunk of driftwood hot-glued in and some plastic leaves attached here & there.  (I didn't know how to do a backdrop like these)  Now that she's in it I think she might prefer some traction on the backdrop, but I don't want to leave her homeless for days while I fix up her tank.


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## gizmosdeath (Oct 30, 2013)

PlaidJaguar said:


> Anybody ever make a removable backdrop?  Or install one into an inhabited tank?
> 
> My A. geroldi is in a half-moon enclosure with a large chunk of driftwood hot-glued in and some plastic leaves attached here & there.  (I didn't know how to do a backdrop like these)  Now that she's in it I think she might prefer some traction on the backdrop, but I don't want to leave her homeless for days while I fix up her tank.


I have never done one but I have seen them done. All you have to do is get an inch thick piece of styro and use that as your palette. Then just cut it to the size that you need and build onto it. Or you could get a couple larger styro blocks and then just carve out the background to what you want. After that paint it or cover it in coco fiber and your done. If you do a search on Google you can get a ton of ideas and there are even a few youtube videos that were halfway decent.


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## persistent (Oct 30, 2013)

wanted to share how I do most of my backdrops  they're quick, easy, non-toxic, cheap and very good looking compared to the effort to make them.


- I take a piece of polystyreen insulation board and cut it to the appropriate size for the background. 
- I then take a knife and start carving a rocky or bark like texture in it. It is actually quite easy to get a nice looking texture without much effort or skill.
- Once the texture is done we can start painting. I usually start with a black or dark grey/brown undercoat and work my way up from there using lighter colours with each layer (usually between 3-6). This is also much easier than it looks at first glance and does not require any skill. Just look up the term "dry brushing paint" on google and you'll immediatly find lots and lots of tutorials on how to do this. It's super easy and very effective.
- I often add a little bit of very fine sand to my paint to make the texture slightly more rough for better grip and to make it less shiny (some brands of acrylic paint tend to be more shiny than others)
- optionally you can cover it in a couple of layers of non-toxic varnish. This is another step you could add some fine sand for the same reasons as mentioned above. This may help if you're building a more humid envirnment but will increase time dramatically because of drying time.
- optionally you could also add some moss, fake plants etc.

If you use water based, quick drying, acrylic paint you could make one in a couple of hours. Don't forget to let it dry out for a few days if you chose to add a layer of varnish.

here's two examples of very simple rocky backgrounds made in this manner.


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## gizmosdeath (Oct 30, 2013)

Outstanding background man. I like the texture allot. Would look really good painted like tree bark. I'll have to to that.


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## iamthegame06 (Oct 30, 2013)

thats sick dude! what brand of paint are you using?


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## Thistles (Oct 30, 2013)

viper69 said:


> Do you have in pics of your frog setups? Esp in series from beginning to end?


 I don't have many. The computer that had the pics on it is dead and I didn't upload many. Again, all my frog tanks had clay backgrounds, but they're amaaaazing. I can look around and PM you some if I find any.


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## persistent (Oct 30, 2013)

iamthegame06 said:


> thats sick dude! what brand of paint are you using?


I use a cheap dutch brand for my basecoats (black and brown) and white (when mixing) called Van Eyck. It has an irritating sheen though, which is why I use some fine sand to break up the light reflecting of it. And I use better paint on top of that 
The rest of the colours I use come from my Citadel paint range. These are extremely expensive though (currently €3,20 for 12ml. But I only need a tiny little bit though) which I usually use for painting miniatures.


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## viper69 (Oct 30, 2013)

persistent said:


> wanted to share how I do most of my backdrops  they're quick, easy, non-toxic, cheap and very good looking compared to the effort to make them.
> 
> 
> - I take a piece of polystyreen insulation board and cut it to the appropriate size for the background.
> ...


Those are really cool looking, thanks. I'm curious isn't polystrene a bit porous though? I ask because I'm wondering how much paint you have to use on it the first time as the paint would have to sink into the backing?  Second, was that 3-6 layers of paint per layer you wrote? Those look really nice. The sand is a good idea, I hadn't thought of that.


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## gizmosdeath (Oct 30, 2013)

persistent said:


> I use a cheap dutch brand for my basecoats (black and brown) and white (when mixing) called Van Eyck. It has an irritating sheen though, which is why I use some fine sand to break up the light reflecting of it. And I use better paint on top of that
> The rest of the colours I use come from my Citadel paint range. These are extremely expensive though (currently €3,20 for 12ml. But I only need a tiny little bit though) which I usually use for painting miniatures.


I have thought about using my citadel paints but they are way too expensive and I usually have large areas to cover. Besides my Ogre army would never get painted if I used it all lol.


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## PlaidJaguar (Oct 30, 2013)

Persistent, that backdrop is amazing!  And the technique sounds easy enough for me to try.  Thanks a bunch!  *runs off to build a backdrop*


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## josh_r (Oct 30, 2013)

Gorilla glue is the best thing I have used to adhere substrate to fake backgrounds. It is expensive, but a little goes a long way, so once you figure out how to get the most out of every bottle... it will go a long way. After years of spending so much money on building false backgrounds, I started abandoning it and just siliconing a piece of egg crate to the back of mt setups and mix up a good batch of loamy clay with a little humus mixed in and pack that into the egg crate and around any rock or wood pieces in place. You would be surprised how strong it can hold once packed into place. It looks great and grows plants great, holds moisture longer. I just go sick of spending all the money.

Here are a few setups I did with nothing but egg crate and clay. No foam, no glue, no fake rocks... all cheap builds. I even built all the aquariums out of salvaged glass from a greenhouse that got torn down.








Here are the first 3 aquariums before they were planted.... Not at all showy or flashy, but when all of your hardwork is just going to get covered in plants anyway, after a while, you just don't even bother anymore. Simple is easier, cheaper, and ends in the same results... plants, animals in a glass box.


JOsh


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## viper69 (Oct 30, 2013)

Those are gorgeous. I heard of eggcrate used this way from an greenhouse that grows orchids, the simpler is better concept. Good point esp if it's going to be covered. For the desert terria the false background people build are great. Lots of ideas now.


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## iamthegame06 (Oct 30, 2013)

josh_r crazy awesome backdrops, do you have pics of how you built it?


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## persistent (Oct 31, 2013)

viper69 said:


> Those are really cool looking, thanks. I'm curious isn't polystrene a bit porous though? I ask because I'm wondering how much paint you have to use on it the first time as the paint would have to sink into the backing?  Second, was that 3-6 layers of paint per layer you wrote? Those look really nice. The sand is a good idea, I hadn't thought of that.


I'm using extruded polystyreen. This has a larger density than expanded polystyreen (the one with the large "grains") and is not very porous at all. Never felt like it was a problem (I even think normal polystyreen wouldn't be too much of a problem). My Basecoat may take 2 or 3 layers to cover but that's quite normal for most surfaces. After that I usually only need one layer per colour (it will also depend on the amount of pigment in the paint ofcourse).





gizmosdeath said:


> I have thought about using my citadel paints but they are way too expensive and I usually have large areas to cover. Besides my Ogre army would never get painted if I used it all lol.


I use cheaper paint for the basecoats and layers that need a lot of paint. That's usually just the basecoat and maybe one more layer. After that I hardly need any paint to do the rest. You'll need less and less paint with every layer and I don't think I normally use more than half a ml per colour for a full background. A little goes a long way, especially when thinned. lol I still have pots of citadel paint which are over 12 years old and still only half empty. I just use them because I have lots of colours to chose from and only 3 basic colours from my cheap paints  also they dry so much quicker and don't have an ugly sheen like the cheap paint.





PlaidJaguar said:


> Persistent, that backdrop is amazing!  And the technique sounds easy enough for me to try.  Thanks a bunch!  *runs off to build a backdrop*


Good luck with that! It really isn't that hard  you can always try and practice on a small piece of leftover polystyreen first when in doubt too  I do that when trying new techniques so I don't waste too much time and effort.


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