# Corn Snakes colors



## kevin91172 (Dec 23, 2010)

I got these corn snakes from Petco as new borns 2 years ago for my son's birthday.Well I got the red one for him.The one that  looks to be reverse okette to me,my wife bought for me the following week for me.She done this for My and son will stop fighting over the snake and I need to stop being a baby.

 I was just curious on what color morphs yall know they are.

For what I seen pics of the red one is Motley and the lighter one is reverse okitee?I am new on this color/genetic stuff.I always had WC stuff.


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## txgsxr (Dec 23, 2010)

Well from the photo I would say at a 98% that the red is a Amel Motley. But really hard to tell the other from the photos. But kind of looks may Het Albino .

Im a Boa guy but know people that are into Colubrids. I sent a copy of your photo to them to see if they can ID them for sure.

How old are they from what you know?


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## kevin91172 (Dec 23, 2010)

The got to be only 2.I got them in October of 09' at small hatching barley taking a pinkie.Now they are taking 2 adult F/T mice.

 So what pigment is it lacking to be Amel Motley?I always thought they were just color phase slang,but learning that it describes genetics of lack of/or abundance of different pigments.I need to buy a book on it and do my homework if I am going to be doing some breeding projects soon.


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## txgsxr (Dec 23, 2010)

Once I get to the house ill send you a link that shows more about morphs.


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## Musicwolf (Dec 23, 2010)

txgsxr said:


> Once I get to the house ill send you a link that shows more about morphs.


Oooh, if you post it here, I'd like to take a look as well.


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## Miss Bianca (Dec 23, 2010)

Here you are, just some informative links.

http://iansvivarium.com/cornsnakemorphs.php

http://www.serpwidgets.com/Morphs/morphs.html

There's also a guide you can purchase that isn't costly at all, if you are
 planning to take it more seriously in the future, as mentioned,

http://cornguide.com/the guide.php


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## kevin91172 (Dec 23, 2010)

Miss Bianca said:


> Here you are, just some informative links.
> 
> http://iansvivarium.com/cornsnakemorphs.php
> 
> ...


Hey thanks! some great helpful sites there.


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## txgsxr (Dec 23, 2010)

Thank you Miss Bianca, that saved me from having to find them once I got home. :clap:

I dont have them on my office computer. Those should tell you pretty much anything you want to know. Only other one I have is for BPs, here that is if anyone wants it.
http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/


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## Jmugleston (Dec 23, 2010)

The orange and yellows on the one hint toward "creamsicle". This morph was introduced by crossing albino emory ratsnakes with corns. The end result is much more orange than on a typical amel corn.


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## PrimalTaunt (Dec 23, 2010)

Miss Bianca said:


> Here you are, just some informative links.
> 
> http://iansvivarium.com/cornsnakemorphs.php
> 
> ...


Thanks for the links.  My LPS got a corn recently and the owner really wants to get ride of it and has said that she'd be willing to come down in price so I've been tossing it over in my mind.  Still might have to go in with my camera one day and post a thread like this.


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## Terry D (Dec 23, 2010)

Jmugleston said:


> The orange and yellows on the one hint toward "creamsicle". This morph was introduced by crossing albino emory ratsnakes with corns. The end result is much more orange than on a typical amel corn.


Kevin, I'm surprised after the above post there wasn't a wave of anti-hybridization rants>:barf:! I wouldn't intentionally cross anything myself but.....

Those are a couple of beautiful snakes. I'd certainly keep 'em!! :} 

Cheers,

Terry


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## Jmugleston (Dec 23, 2010)

Terry D said:


> Kevin, I'm surprised after the above post there wasn't a wave of anti-hybridization rants>:barf:! I wouldn't intentionally cross anything myself but.....
> 
> Those are a couple of beautiful snakes. I'd certainly keep 'em!! :}
> 
> ...


At the height of the corn snake craze, the emory ratsnake was seen as a subspecies of the red ratsnake (a.k.a. cornsnake) thereby making it an intergrade not a hybrid ;P . Only recently was the one elevated to species status. Plus we're talking about alibnos. If someone was worried about pure bloodlines, they'd probably have a problem with a color mutations first. If you really wanted to have an argument you could mention that "reverse Okeetee" are a physical impossibility since Okeetee cornsnakes were a select few from hunt club in southern Georgia if I remember correctly. Once the albino was mixed in, the locality line was lost since amelanistic corns came from a different region. There are a number of points to argue though I wouldn't recommend placing too much weight on subspecies. Now the irony. I'm derailing a thread by stating why it would be a waste of time to try and derail the thread.


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## kevin91172 (Dec 23, 2010)

Terry D said:


> Kevin, I'm surprised after the above post there wasn't a wave of anti-hybridization rants>:barf:! I wouldn't intentionally cross anything myself but.....
> 
> Those are a couple of beautiful snakes. I'd certainly keep 'em!! :}
> 
> ...


Hey Thanks,I oh yes these are defiantly keepers.

---------- Post added at 10:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:14 PM ----------




Jmugleston said:


> At the height of the corn snake craze, the emory ratsnake was seen as a subspecies of the red ratsnake (a.k.a. cornsnake) thereby making it an intergrade not a hybrid ;P . Only recently was the one elevated to species status. Plus we're talking about alibnos. If someone was worried about pure bloodlines, they'd probably have a problem with a color mutations first. If you really wanted to have an argument you could mention that "reverse Okeetee" are a physical impossibility since Okeetee cornsnakes were a select few from hunt club in southern Georgia if I remember correctly. Once the albino was mixed in, the locality line was lost since amelanistic corns came from a different region. There are a number of points to argue though I wouldn't recommend placing too much weight on subspecies. Now the irony. I'm derailing a thread by stating why it would be a waste of time to try and derail the thread.


 OOO,, some great information I did not know that.So I learned something once again today.That is very interesting.Thanks Jmug!


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## Terry D (Dec 24, 2010)

Jmugleston said:


> At the height of the corn snake craze, the emory ratsnake was seen as a subspecies of the red ratsnake (a.k.a. cornsnake) thereby making it an intergrade not a hybrid ;P . Only recently was the one elevated to species status. Plus we're talking about alibnos. If someone was worried about pure bloodlines, they'd probably have a problem with a color mutations first. If you really wanted to have an argument you could mention that "reverse Okeetee" are a physical impossibility since Okeetee cornsnakes were a select few from hunt club in southern Georgia if I remember correctly. Once the albino was mixed in, the locality line was lost since amelanistic corns came from a different region. There are a number of points to argue though I wouldn't recommend placing too much weight on subspecies. Now the irony. I'm derailing a thread by stating why it would be a waste of time to try and derail the thread.


Joey, I was referring to the discussion of hybrids that pop up every so often- in which it never fails that someone brings up mixing dog breeds and other silly stuff......... Your contribution was actually interesting .

Kevin, Those corns are awesome. One looks pretty big. I remember road cruising in s Florida years ago on rainy afternoons after a hot day when you could sometime find 4 or 5 per mile. Those were the days. They were really common when board-flippin in some areas along with black racers, ring-necks, Ophisaurs, and the occasional Florida king. Strange thing was that I never found a corn in Broward county that was over two feet long.......must be something in the water 

I've seen some fairly large corns around 5' to slightly + in collections but can't seem to find a big one myself. They are supposedly here in nw La. (according to some) but I haven't lucked up after many years of searching. We have an interesting rat here that was once regarded as a hybrid lindheimeri x obsoleta. They're dark with quite pronounced dorsal blotching with many indivs showing alot of red. I'm thinking this one has been redescribed now.................heheh....like I've kept up with taxonomy of rat snakes. 

Good field herping to ya,

Terry


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## kevin91172 (Dec 24, 2010)

Terry D said:


> Joey, I was referring to the discussion of hybrids that pop up every so often- in which it never fails that someone brings up mixing dog breeds and other silly stuff......... Your contribution was actually interesting .
> 
> Kevin, Those corns are awesome. One looks pretty big. I remember road cruising in s Florida years ago on rainy afternoons after a hot day when you could sometime find 4 or 5 per mile. Those were the days. They were really common when board-flippin in some areas along with black racers, ring-necks, Ophisaurs, and the occasional Florida king. Strange thing was that I never found a corn in Broward county that was over two feet long.......must be something in the water
> 
> ...


I caught a Elaphe obsoleta lindheimeri that was 7'1" Sounds like a whale of a fish story,should of took pictures, before I released it.But that was in my younger days before internet and digital cameras.

We used to see a lot of these big "chicken snakes"not that large but plenty of 5- 6'.But back then a lot of us in area raised plenty of chickens and they grew well on all the eggs and rats int he hen house I reckon.

The one red snake is about 4' foot or pushing it real close.


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## Terry D (Dec 25, 2010)

Kevin, Wow! That doesn't sound too far-fetched for size but that's a biggun!! Sadly, you'd need a photo on any forum to support that claim. I bet you wished you'd have gotten one in hindsight. I believe it, though- especially if the snake was found in a remote area or area with less well-travelled roads. I've seen/caught some really big ones back in the day as well. It's getting harder to find really large individuals of any wild critter, especially some of the larger snakes which like to crawl out on the road to warm up before the evening foray. Areas without a road crossing within a mile or so are rare these days. Total clearing/leveling of land and imported fire ants don't help the situation either. 

 Strangely, I've found that some of the best herping can be near suburban, even urban areas in vacant lots or fallow/previously disturbed parcels of land- mostly areas that have been fallow for a couple of years or so. However, it's not often that you find large indivs of any given spp in those areas unless they're burrowers, fossorial, etc. 

Cheers,

Terry


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## Miss Bianca (Dec 25, 2010)

kevin91172 said:


> Hey thanks! some great helpful sites there.





txgsxr said:


> Thank you Miss Bianca, that saved me from having to find them once I got home. :clap:





PrimalTaunt said:


> Thanks for the links.


Quite welcome. Simple google search.


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