# Nebo omanensis?



## phoenixxavierre (Aug 4, 2003)

Here you go, Joe. Some various pics of N. omanensis, or at least what was sold to me as N. omanensis.


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## phoenixxavierre (Aug 4, 2003)

"Why drink the water from my hand, contagious as you think I am?" -- Collective Soul


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## phoenixxavierre (Aug 4, 2003)

I have other pics but need to resize them. Working on it.

Paul


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## phoenixxavierre (Aug 4, 2003)

Here are some others.

This one shows him drinking off his claws.


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## phoenixxavierre (Aug 4, 2003)

Rear view.


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## phoenixxavierre (Aug 4, 2003)

Side view.


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## phoenixxavierre (Aug 4, 2003)

Yum, yum!! Gotta love that water!!


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## SpiderFood (Aug 4, 2003)

That looks very similar to the Opistocanthus asper(spell that right?) that I have. Is it about 3 or so inches long? The colors look very similar as well. Nice scorp though, is it gravid?

Later

Dale


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## phoenixxavierre (Aug 4, 2003)

Do you have pics, Dale? Yes, around 3 inches including the body and tail. I think it's coming up on a molt. The other one I have is also. Thanks for the compliment! That sucker drank from my hand for a good 15 minutes. I finally got tired of holding it in my hand and put it up. It did NOT want to go! lol!

Anyone else have any idea what species this is?

Best wishes,

Paul


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## SpiderFood (Aug 4, 2003)

In this image you cant tell the color of the legs as well as in yours but they are a little more pale and yellow if you see her in person. This female is gravid and should pop anyday now. She is  a heavy eater and drinks lots of water as well. So who knows maybe they are the same. :? 

Later

Dale


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## SpiderFood (Aug 4, 2003)

Yours seems to be a lighter color though.


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## pelo (Aug 4, 2003)

*same as mine phoenix*

I have 2 N.omanensis(sold to me also as N.omanensis)..your pics are identical to what mine look like.Any info on them?There's little to no info out there on them.Actually the chela pic Skinheaddave posted was of one of mine.I brought them over to Dave's to see if we could identify the gender...**fingers crossed**from what we could tell it looks like I just "may" have got lucky and ended up with a pair.They're still immature yet as they are only appr. 6cms long and from what little info I did gather they reach about 15 cms???.I keep them on appr 4" of appr 70% sand and 30% fine gravel/potting soil/peat mix substrate with some bentolite added to strengthen for burrowing if they so desire.I also gave them a cave type hide/retreat(they've made scrapes inside of retreat) and keep the temps low 80's.I supplied them with a small shallow water dish also.From what I also learned is they are humidity sensitive so low RH values and dry substrate is recommended.They seem to have adapted quite well and are doing well.Eating,drinking and quite active.They're very skittish and I've yet to see them ready to sting or use their stinger on prey.They seem to prefer to use their claws for killing/capturing prey and also in defense.I'll try to get up a couple of pics also(have to borrow a digital)..peace..


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## phoenixxavierre (Aug 4, 2003)

Any idea on how to diffentiate male from female with this species, or for that matter how to differentiate Opistocanthus from Nebo, Dale? Anyone?

How do you know yours is gravid as opposed to molting? Are the pleural membranes dark or light? That's the only way I know to tell but I imagine it may not apply to all species?


Pelo, I don't know much about either species outside of where they're possibly from (Nebo omanensis I assume coming from the country of Nebo in the Middle East), and from what I have seen myself. 

The country of Oman is in the Middle East bordering the Arabian Sea, the Gulf of Oman and the Persian Gulf. It's by Yemen and Saudi Arabia.

I would provide a breakdown of weather in each and every city in the country, but I'm wondering if these ARE actually Nebo, and not Opistocanthus. Pelo, you say Dave IDed these affirmatively as N. omanensis?

In Oman, there are NO bodies of water whatsoever. The land is dry desert, hot and humid along the coast, hot and dry inshore. From May to September in the far South there's a strong southwest summer monsoon. The central area of Oman is desert plain. In the north and the south there are rugged mountains. During the summer the winds raise large sandstorms and duststorms inland. The country experiences periodic droughts. 

In the captial, Muscat, temps are ranging from 81F at night to 98F during the day. The driest months there are June through October when they experience an average of 0 inches of rainfall per month. The wettest month is in Febrauary when they experience an average of 1 inch of rain during that month. During February temps average from 63F to 79F. During the dry months the temps range from 81F to 104F. 

That's just the capital and the weather does vary from city to city, but gives you an idea of the area. 

I'm not familiar with Opistocanthus. Anyone here familiar with either Nebo or Opistocanthus that can share some insight on these, please?

The ones I have like to stay on or under rocks, are diggers (one of them is when provided with damp sand/peat mix, mostly sand), and do drink their fair share of water when it's provided! They are also good eaters! These don't like being messed with but when offered water from my hand, he took it with relish, and then didn't want to get off of my hand to go back in the container! Definitely more of a pincher than sting-happy. 

The poise themselves at the mouth of a scrape with their claws out ready for prey!

Take care,

Paul


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## jper26 (Aug 4, 2003)

Awesome pics Paul keep them coming. Looks like you have good methods of giving your scorps water. That could be very helpul for the guys who dont want too drink from dishes. It probably will extend lifespans and maybe even help with moults.


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## phoenixxavierre (Aug 4, 2003)

Thanks, Joe!  

That's what I was hoping for on the water dish stubborn scorps too! =D =D 

I also needed to find a way to water the scorps that I have in smaller containers where there is no room for a water dish, without dampening their enclosures! not to mention the ones I keep in sand. I lost an A. amoureuxi who dumped a waterdish into the sand and got sand caked on her booklungs, so she suffocated!   This way I can water the ones in sand without running that risk again!


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## pelo (Aug 4, 2003)

> _Originally posted by phoenixxavierre _
> * Pelo, you say Dave IDed these affirmatively as N. omanensis?
> 
> 
> ...


>>We we sexing for gender not specific species id'ing.Here's a link to pictures of both and different species of Nebo (diplocentridae) and Opistocanthus (ischnuridae). http://www.ub.ntnu.no/scorpion-files/gallery.php...(you'll have to scroll down a ways to fnd them)....peace..


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## pelo (Aug 4, 2003)

*looks more like......*

Going over the pics in the link for the first time myself just now,looks like we have a species of Opistocanthus....maybe O.valerioi.Resembles them more than the N.omanensis..especially the metasoma and mesosoma.The sternites on the mesosoma are near identical and they have the skinnier metasoma along with orange telson.Overall coloring is more to O.valerioi then N.omanensis....what do you think???Another case of mis- id'ing?...peace..

>ps..I hope I got my scorp body parts right..lol..rather new to scorps


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## phoenixxavierre (Aug 4, 2003)

I've looked these pics over before, and though it did look more like an Opisthacanthus species. I appreciate you redirecting me to the gallery. Stupid me, I haven't looked at the site in a couple months and was looking for the pics on the biography earlier! lol! The one I have resembles the O. madagascariensis or the O. rugiceps, but on the valerioi, the telson and legs appear quite a bit more yellow than the one I have here. The valerioi also appears overall lighter. I'll have to post pics once these molt and then maybe we can compare better. It's hard to see what they really look like with all that pleural membrane in the way! I do agree it was misided!

This little sucker tried to lay his stinger in me while I was looking him over!! lol! Luckily he nailed the callous part of my thumb and it didn't pierce, but he sure tried! I could feel him trying to press that stinger in! lol!

Take care!

(Yeah, metasoma=tail, mesosoma=body, tergites are the segments on the mesosoma, I think. I'm new to scorps too, only learning about them for the past few years, and will always be learning!   Let's compare once these molt!   )


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## pelo (Aug 4, 2003)

What worries me the most at present is housing them.I went with the fact they were Nebos and am housing them accordingly..arrid desert type setup.This might not be right for what they really are and could cause problems.I don't want to loose them by not caring for them correctly...hmmm..any recomendations???...peace...


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## phoenixxavierre (Aug 4, 2003)

> _Originally posted by pelo _
> *What worries me the most at present is housing them.I went with the fact they were Nebos and am housing them accordingly..arrid desert type setup.This might not be right for what they really are and could cause problems.I don't want to loose them by not caring for them correctly...hmmm..any recomendations???...peace... *


Any idea where Opisthacanthus originate?

Anyone?

Best wishes!


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## pelo (Aug 4, 2003)

Only thing I could find was Ischnurid species are from tropical and partly subtropical areas...which means odds are I'm housing them wrong...No wonder they were relishing water from you and are big drinkers in my setup......peace..


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## skinheaddave (Aug 4, 2003)

I'm not even going to look at the pics, as that is not going to prove satisfactory in terms of a real ID.  If I could sit down with Pete's specimens again I could probably ID them to at least the family level fairly quickly.  Since I'm over there tommorow evening, I'll see what I can do without the aid of a microscope.  Otherwise, it may have to wait until I return from Montreal next week.

Cheers,
Dave


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## skinheaddave (Aug 4, 2003)

Upon further investigation, I can make the distinction tommorow with my magnifying glass.  I'll either post the results here or let Pete do it.

Cheers,
Dave


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## phoenixxavierre (Aug 4, 2003)

> _Originally posted by pelo _
> *Only thing I could find was Ischnurid species are from tropical and partly subtropical areas...which means odds are I'm housing them wrong...No wonder they were relishing water from you and are big drinkers in my setup......peace.. *


Would make sense, because when I added moisture to one of the two's containers I have, it did a LOT of digging, piling sand/peat mix up over the rock I had placed in there, trying to burrow under the rock. While desert species do dig, I've noticed that they're not too keen on water. The one I added water to the substrate wasn't bothered by it at all. But Opisthacanthus aren't really supposed to burrow much more than a scrape under rock or tree bark, right? These ones would burrow I bet if given the correct substrate.

One identification key of Opisthacanthus is that the tarsi of the legs are armed ventrally with stout spines. Also, Opisthacanthus' mesosomas do not taper toward the tail and are generally fat bodied. South African species of Opishacanthus possess course but smooth granulations on the pinchers.

I believe many Opisthacanthus come from South Africa. Some found (O. rugiceps) in east Africa (Tanzania). Some are also found in the Congo. There are also some found in grasslands (O. validus in South Africa) found under surface debris in shallow burrows/scrapes. O. valerioi may possibly come from Costa Rica. There are also some Opisthacanthus (elatus) from Venezuela. Someone please correct any misinformation here.

So in the spirit of information sharing, here are some various weather conditions in various cities and other information on Costa Rica to aid in your keeping of Opisthacanthus species. I can also add info on South Africa if you if you're interested in that.

If you believe your specimen is O. valerioi, it may possibly be from Costa Rica seeing as Dr. Carlos Viquez, who authored "Scorpions of Costa Rica," submitted one of the pics on the Scorpion Files along with other pictures of scorpions from Costa Rica. Jan Ove Rein would be a good person to ask about O. valerioi, since the pics were submitted to his website.

So let's take a look at Costa Rica. Just some additional information on the country and some weather patterns there for keepers who go with the nature knows best theory.

Heredia, Costa Rica. Weather over the next ten days: One day of early evening thunderstorms, 2 days of thunderstorms, one day of AM thunderstorms, 5 days of scattered thunderstorms, and one day of PM thunderstorms. Temperatures over the next 10 days are ranging from 59F at night to 78F during the day. Chance of precipitation over the next 10 days is as follows: 2 days of 60% chance, one day of 80% chance, 4 days of 40% chance, 2 days of 50% chance, and one day of 30% chance. Sun is rising around 5:30am and setting around 6pm. Humidities are ranging from 70% during the day to 100% during the evening. Winds from the east around 6 mph. 

San Jose, Costa Rica. Weather over the next ten days: Identical to weather in Heredia, Costa Rica. I believe July is one of the wettest months in San Jose, Costa Rica with 7.2 inches of rain during the month. July through November are pretty wet months in San Jose. The driest month there is in January with .3" of rain during the month.

Personally I have a feeling this is an African species of Opisthacanthus, though I could be totally wrong. Just a feeling. Or even O. madagascariensis! 

I have another specimen from Tanzania that I think is an Opisthacanthus. I'll have to add pics of it tomorrow when I get time. 

I typed this post before I read Dave's post, but rather than deleting it I'll go ahead and post it, then await Dave's opinion tomorrow!  

Take care!


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## pelo (Aug 5, 2003)

Well Dave was over and definitely confirmed they aren't Nebos.Nebos are from the family Diplocentridae.One defining characteristic of the family diplocentridae is that they all have a subeculear tubercle located on the vesicle just in front of the stinger (polis 1990)...in other words a little protrusion/bump sticking off the vesicle just in front of the stinger, easily seen here on a heteronebo portoricensis....click here..http://www.ub.ntnu.no/scorpion-files/h_portoricensis.jpg ..Seems they(our nebos??) are totally lacking this characteristic which means they can't be diplocentridae which nebo omanensis falls into.There were also a couple other factors which Dave will explain later on in another post which also confirm they're not nebo.He is certain though they are a species of opisthacanthus.He too will explain why he has come to that conclusion.He told me and I was able to see but to translate it all back here..lol...well we'll let Dave do that.He'll try to do it tonight if he has time or when he returns from a trip next weekend.....peace...


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## phoenixxavierre (Aug 5, 2003)

Oh, cool! I didn't know ALL Diplocentridae have subaculeur tubercles (I always called them subaculeur spines, lol!). Same thing as with Centruroides and Babycurus, right? the "second stinger?"

I appreciate the update!! That's awesome! I'll be looking forward to the extra info!!

Thanks again for posting that!

Take care!


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## pelo (Aug 5, 2003)

Now I "think"..(Dave will varify later) that possibly only 2 genus lack the subacular tubercle..scorpindae and ischnuridae(opisthacanthus).With opiisthacanthus also is that the exoskeleton is much softer than some species,which mine were...a couple more factors leading Dave to his conclusions that they are opisthacanthus....peace..


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## skinheaddave (Aug 5, 2003)

Okay, I'll try to address everyone's concerns. 

The first thing I looked at was the telson.  There was no subaculear tubercle.  In taxonomic terms, there are a myriad of projections that can be found in that area and they are called subaculear tubercles, teeth etc. based on their size and morphology.  According to "The Biology of Scorpions" (Polis, 1990), all Diplocentridae have subaculear tubercles.  You can actualy just see the tubercle on the picture of N.omanesnsis located here at the Scorpion Files.

Now, given that it has a smoothe telson and taking into account its general appearance (large chela, thin metasoma etc.) it is probably Scorpionidae or Ischnuridae.  There are other scorpions that lack some sort of subaculear projection or have a very indistinct one, but upon general inspection, I figured those two families.  Since Opisthacanthus had been mentioned, I refered back to Polis (1990) which has a key to genra.  The factor specifying as Opisthacanthus is "Dentate margins of pedipalp-chela fingers with 2 rows of granules (these rows are sometimes fused at the base)"  Upon inspection, the specimens examined had these rows, giving some weight to the guesses made previously in this thread.

So where does this leave us?  Well, it is definitely not Nebo or another Diplocentridae.  It is probably Opisthacanthus, but I am unhappy saying "for sure" without multiple features to confirm, but in this case it seems to match my Opisthacanthus well in many respects and seems to posess enough taxonomic features to classify it as such based on Polis (1990).  

I would like people to make note of two factors at this point, though:
 - I do not have any documentation other than a 10 year old summary of systematics (albeit a very good one)
 - This taxonomic evaluation thing is relatively new to me.  I've been vaguely interested for a while now, but only really hit the books after the ATS conference (quite an inspiration for me).   Thus, what I have put here is to be taken as the words of not only an amateur but of a novice.

Cheers,
Dave


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## phoenixxavierre (Aug 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by pelo _
> *Now I "think"..(Dave will varify later) that possibly only 2 genus lack the subacular tubercle..scorpindae and ischnuridae(opisthacanthus).With opiisthacanthus also is that the exoskeleton is much softer than some species,which mine were...a couple more factors leading Dave to his conclusions that they are opisthacanthus....peace.. *


That's interesting! 

I've noticed these seem to have a "softer" exoskeleton as well. 

Take care!


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## phoenixxavierre (Aug 5, 2003)

Here is a closeup of the telson. My batteries went dead and are recharging so I'll try to take some better ones of the telson.


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## rainman (Aug 5, 2003)

looks to be some tiny bubbles on their if ya look close enough. eh, good closeup on the telson.


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## XOskeletonRED (Aug 6, 2003)

As requested by Paul in a prior post...

Most of the Opisthacanthus genus and locales are as follows:

 Species - Region (Country/ies)

1 Opisthacanthus africanus - Sub-Saharan Africa (Cameroon, Republic of Congo, Gabon, Guinea, Mozambique)
2 Opisthacanthus asper - Sub-Saharan Africa (Botswana, Mozambique, South Africa, Zimbabwe)
3 Opisthacanthus basutus - Sub-Saharan Africa (Lesotho)
4 Opisthacanthus capensis - Sub-Saharan Africa (South Africa, Zimbabwe) 
5 Opisthacanthus cayaporum - South America (Brazil, French Guiana) 
6 Opisthacanthus diremptus - Sub-Saharan Africa (South Africa) 
7 Opisthacanthus elatus - Central America (Colombia, Panama, Venezuela) 
8 Opisthacanthus laeviceps - Sub-Saharan Africa (South Africa) 
9 Opisthacanthus lamorali - Sub-Saharan Africa (Zimbabwe) 
10 Opisthacanthus lecomtei - Sub-Saharan Africa (Cameroon, Gabon) 
11 Opisthacanthus lepturus - Central America (Dominican Republic, Haiti) 
12 Opisthacanthus madagascariensis - Sub-Saharan Africa (Madagascar) 
13 Opisthacanthus piscatorius - Sub-Saharan Africa (South Africa) 
14 Opisthacanthus punctulatus - Sub-Saharan Africa (Madagascar)
15 Opisthacanthus rugiceps - Sub-Saharan Africa (Kenya, Malawi, Tanzania) 
16 Opisthacanthus rugulosus - Sub-Saharan Africa (Malawi) 
17 Opisthacanthus valerioi - South America (Costa Rica) 
18 Opisthacanthus validus - Sub-Saharan Africa (Lesotho, South Africa, Swaziland)
19 Opisthacanthus weyrauchi - South America (Peru) 



adios,
edw.


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## phoenixxavierre (Aug 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by rainman _
> *looks to be some tiny bubbles on their if ya look close enough. eh, good closeup on the telson. *


Yeah, I don't know what the heck that was! lol! Thanks, Rainman! I'm going to have to save up over the year and get one of those 5 megapixel dealies for better closeup shots!


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## phoenixxavierre (Aug 6, 2003)

Dave and Edward,

thankyou both for taking the time to post that info! All awesome info!!

I've noticed something on the venom gland of the ones I have here that resembles a subaculer tubercle but it's VERY tiny, so I don't know if it's just a hair with a thick base or what. I'm going to try and get some better shots at the right angle and post later.

Thanks again, guys!!

Best wishes,

Paul


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## pelo (Aug 6, 2003)

Well now to try and figure out the best way to house them.I've got a x-large critter keeper.I've given it the oppurtunity to climb,burrow and a hide to retreat.I've moisten some sections and left others relatively dry.There's actually a few different enviroments contained within it.Now to see where it likes to hang out best.I'll leave it for a few days and post the results.....peace..


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## pelo (Aug 6, 2003)

Before Dave left he told me odds were good it would be a climber.It's travelled around investigating all setups and has taken to climbing the corkbark and has stayed there...I'll keep you posted....peace..

>>hey phoenix...why don't you stand a peice or two of corkbark in your enclosure and see what happens.....


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## phoenixxavierre (Aug 6, 2003)

Hey Pelo,

I'm going to change it's setup now to peat, add some moisture and add some pieces of branch for it to climb on and see what happens. In it's current setup it seems to really like this chunk of concrete and is pretty much on that constantly!

I'll try to get more pics and do all that and then repost!

Take care!

Oh, here's some other info on Costa Rica, just for information sake (in case the scorpion in question is O. valerioi):

Borders Carribean and North Pacific Sea between Nicaragua and Panama.

.86% of Costa Rica is water. 

The country of Costa Rica is slightly less in size than the state of West Virginia.

It is a tropical and subtropical climate; it's dry season being December through April and it's rainy season being May through November. The highlands are cooler in temperature. 

Costa Rica is made up of coastal plains separated by rugged mountains including over 100 volcanic cones, several of which are active volcanoes. In the center of the country, close to San Jose (the capital), there are four volcanoes, two of which are active volcanoes, one named Irazu. 

There are occasional earthquakes there, and hurricanes along the Atlantic coast. The lowlands are frequently flooded at the beginning of the rainy season which cause landslides.


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## pelo (Aug 7, 2003)

Day 2...still hanging out on the corkbark I've stood up against the walls....peace..


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