# How to: Build A Homemade Co2 Chamber



## JC (May 16, 2011)

*Hello,

In this tutorial you will learn how to build your own CO2 chamber for under $10. This is the way I sleep/knock out all of my invertebrates for my experiments. This tutorial covers MY own personal method which I have use, although may be other methods available.

You will need the following:

1. (1) 2 liter bottle.







2. (1) Three foot fish tank air line tube. 







3. Sugar.(one cup)







4. Yeast.(one tablespoon)







5. (2) 2 liter bottle caps.(One with hole and without hole)











6. Clay.







7. A small delicup with a lid.(Pictured measures 4LX2H)







8. A drill.







9. Water.










STEP ONE:


a) Fill up one cup of water(warm) and add the 1 tablespoon of yeast and stir it for 1 minute.

b)Pour stirred yeast into the 2 liter bottle.

c)Add 1 cup of sugar along with three cups of warm water to the 2 liter

d) Add enough water so that at least 3/4 of the 2 liter bottle is filled.

e) Cap the bottle well and shake it for 15 seconds.


It significant CO2 production will begin in one hour after shaking.



STEP TWO:


a) Drill the 2nd bottle cap to fit the plastic tubing.








b) Insert tubing just 1-inch deep and cover seems with clay on both sides.


















c) Make a small hole in the middle of the deli-cup lid.(I carefully use a screwdriver to make the hole)








d) Insert the other end of the plastic tubing about 1-inch into the deli-cup lid. Cover all seems with clay

















Assemble it and you are done!







The spider inside the delicup












The Reaction:


C6H12O6  ----> 2 C2H60H  +  2 CO2





-The Pterinochilus murinus female pictured here was out cold at exactly 1:24 hours after being exposed to the CO2 in the chamber.

-5" centipedes exposed to this system for 1 hour have been been completely knocked out for up to 00:30 hours.

-Knockout time will vary according to to the animal's size and reaction effectiveness of your yeast.

-A good rule of thumb for figuring out whether the spider has been knocked out or not are the spinnerets. Drooped spinnerets and relaxed chelicerae are a good indicators that the spider has lost motor control.


Tips:

Do not expose the invertebrate to this system go more than three hours. The animal may adapt to the oxygen levels and regain consciousness or expire. 




WARNING:

Do NOT completely cover the top of the bottle for long* periods of time or it will explode.

Do NOT allow the liquid to completely fill the 2 liter bottle.


Disclaimer:

I am neither chemist nor a biologist! This is my own experimental system that has works for me. Use at your own risk.

*


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## advan (May 16, 2011)

Nice write up. :clap: Thanks for posting.


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## Rabid538 (May 16, 2011)

This is very helpful, thank you.  I might try this on mice so that I can pre-kill them for my snake. Do you know if this method can be safely used on slings?


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## JC (May 17, 2011)

Rabid538 said:


> This is very helpful, thank you.  I might try this on mice so that I can pre-kill them for my snake. Do you know if this method can be safely used on slings?



Rabid,

I have honestly not experimented with slings. But it would be a but trickier. First, you would need a smaller delicup, but I do not know the sleep/wake up time. 

Second, you will have to carefully monitor the sling's responsiveness as you conduct the experiment to make sure you don't loose it.

I would personally not recommend knocking out spiderlings though.


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## Rabid538 (May 17, 2011)

JC said:


> Rabid,
> 
> I have honestly not experimented with slings. But it would be a but trickier. First, you would need a smaller delicup, but I do not know the sleep/wake up time.
> 
> ...


Okay, thank you very much. I don't think I will try it then.


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## Kirk (May 17, 2011)

Dry ice would be a quick carbon dioxide source. Using your set up, place a piece of ice in water. Dry ice is available from some grocery stores, ice cream shops, etc.


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## JC (May 17, 2011)

Kirk,

Thanks for the advice! I will see to use it my next experiment. But I think the water vapors may be a minor problem.


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## Hobo (May 17, 2011)

Thanks for the guide.
Hopefully it'll be something I won't have to try, but it's good to know I have a guide if I do


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## sjl197 (May 17, 2011)

Huh, cool idea.

Kirk, i find that dry ice is often slightly difficult to either find or keep stable whilst deep in the jungle experimenting on spiders, and airplanes dont like carrying CO2 canisters.... whilst a bag of sugar and a bag of yeast, plastercine, and plastic tube will fit in my bag nicely going into the jungle...i guess i can build the rest in the field! I think several hours of boredom and a pen knife will replace the drill, etc.


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## Kirk (May 17, 2011)

sjl197 said:


> Huh, cool idea.
> 
> Kirk, i find that dry ice is often slightly difficult to either find or keep stable whilst deep in the jungle experimenting on spiders, and airplanes dont like carrying CO2 canisters.... whilst a bag of sugar and a bag of yeast, plastercine, and plastic tube will fit in my bag nicely going into the jungle...i guess i can build the rest in the field! I think several hours of boredom and a pen knife will replace the drill, etc.


I've done field work for 30 years, and wouldn't expect to come across grocery stores or ice cream parlors selling dry ice in jungle habitats. Yet, how the context of my reference to dry ice could be taken so far out of context is paradoxical.


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## Tym Hollerup (May 17, 2011)

I might just be stupid here, but what kind of "experiments" are you performing on your T's? Maybe it's just me, but I'd much rather leave my T's alone as much as possible. :shrug:


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## super-pede (May 17, 2011)

Why havent I thought of this?!
simple yet brilliant!


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## BrynWilliams (May 18, 2011)

A cheaper source of CO2 would also be using Bicarbonate of Soda

Whack it into some water et voila, bubbles of CO2. Accelerated if you want by a few drops of something acidic in the water (vinegar, lemon juice etc)

Hope it helps!


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## JC (May 18, 2011)

BryWilliams,

Defiantly noted and scheduled! Thanks!


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## Nerri1029 (May 18, 2011)

BrynWilliams said:


> A cheaper source of CO2 would also be using Bicarbonate of Soda
> 
> Whack it into some water et voila, bubbles of CO2. Accelerated if you want by a few drops of something acidic in the water (vinegar, lemon juice etc)
> 
> Hope it helps!


This is my method as well.

Sodium Bicarbonate ( Baking Soda ) and Vinegar. 

I can start immediately, and I can put a T under in 5-10 minutes, I can also generate enough CO2 to not have to transfer them to a deli container.  
I tape up the holes, and put saran wrap over the top of the container. you can extract defensive species from tight places this way.

SEE: Link
It's the second half of the presentation, so just skip to that part.

---------- Post added at 03:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:25 PM ----------



With the bicarbonate method you also do not have the ethanol fumes to worry about either, or the mess of the yeast.


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## JC (May 18, 2011)

Nerri1029 said:


> This is my method as well.
> 
> Sodium Bicarbonate ( Baking Soda ) and Vinegar.
> 
> ...



Excellent. Good to hear others are using this method as well. I may do a tutorial on this method as well and post it here. 

Also, if anyone wants to do a tutorial on one of these other methods feel free to post it here. Thanks.


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## zonbonzovi (May 18, 2011)

Awesome writeup, Nerri!  I had trouble with the reaction of the fluids shooting through the tube & flooding the chamber where the patient sits...too much baking soda?  I bought a soda stream instead.  I found that equal doses of CO2 could have very different effects for different but closely related creatures(I was knocking out centipedes for sexing).  Very unnerving when working with large specimens only to have terminal legs suddenly grasp a finger while you're trying to get a snapshot.  Any speculation on why some things go under easily and others seem to resist?

Your photo methods in the writeup: is there an ideal working distance from the scope's eyepiece?


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## BrynWilliams (May 18, 2011)

CO2 is heavier than the majority of the gasses in air, and thus will sink to the bottom of the enclosure. Think cheap theatre smoke. (this was nicely illustrated in Nerri's presentation.

So different diameter/size enclosures will require different volumes of CO2 to 'immerse' the specimen. Equally, where the specimen is relative to the bottom of the enclosure will affect how long it takes to anaesthetise. Also, the temperature of the day will affect the rate of diffusion into the surrounding air, however this won't be a massive factor.


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## JC (May 18, 2011)

BrynWilliams said:


> Also, the temperature of the day will affect the rate of diffusion into the surrounding air, however this won't be a massive factor.


Also, it will affect where the CO2 is settling. Will see how I can manage it to level it with the animal's breathing efficiently.

Have any of you thought about exciting the animal's metabolism, then shocking it with a sudden burst-introduction of CO2? It should work most effectively.


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## HotPocket (May 18, 2011)

this is a great write up. I may try this to chill out feeder rats for my royal python's. Sadly nether of them will take frozen feeders.


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## Nerri1029 (May 18, 2011)

HotPocket said:


> this is a great write up. I may try this to chill out feeder rats for my royal python's. Sadly nether of them will take frozen feeders.


CO2 does NOT have the same effect on mammals.
This could be considered abuse, or definitely mistreatment of a warmblooded vertebrate.

The methods shown were intended only for invertebrates.

---------- Post added at 10:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:33 PM ----------




zonbonzovi said:


> Awesome writeup, Nerri!  I had trouble with the reaction of the fluids shooting through the tube & flooding the chamber where the patient sits...too much baking soda?  I bought a soda stream instead.  I found that equal doses of CO2 could have very different effects for different but closely related creatures(I was knocking out centipedes for sexing).  Very unnerving when working with large specimens only to have terminal legs suddenly grasp a finger while you're trying to get a snapshot.  Any speculation on why some things go under easily and others seem to resist?
> 
> Your photo methods in the writeup:* is there an ideal working distance from the scope's eyepiece?*


eyepieces (oculars) have diff focal lengths so I'll say "It depends" on your camera and the eyepiece.


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## JC (May 18, 2011)

Nerri1029 said:


> CO2 does NOT have the same effect on mammals.
> This could be considered abuse, or definitely mistreatment of a warmblooded vertebrate.
> 
> The methods shown were intended only for invertebrates.




Actually, Nerri, that is the point. He intends to kill the mouse by CO2. Common practice in snake hobby to feed them to snakes.  Only I don't know how fast/effective it will be on a mouse though. Should take it out faster than an invert.


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## Nerri1029 (May 18, 2011)

JC said:


> Actually, Nerri, that is the point. He intends to kill the mouse by CO2. Common practice in snake hobby to feed them to snakes.  Only I don't know how fast/effective it will be on a mouse though. Should take it out faster than an invert.


That was not how I read it. 
If he intended to kill/euthanize/dispatch/release from the mortal coil etc. then he should have said this. Instead he used "Chill out"

If he meant kill then mae coulpa. 
If not, then I stand by my statement, better safe.


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## JC (May 18, 2011)

Nerri1029 said:


> That was not how I read it.
> If he intended to kill/euthanize/dispatch/release from the mortal coil etc. then he should have said this. Instead he used "Chill out"
> 
> If he meant kill then mae coulpa.
> If not, then I stand by my statement, better safe.


Yeah, by 'chill' he means sorta dazz them. Snakes like warm blood, but it is dangerous to feed them fully conscious animals.


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## Bigboy (May 19, 2011)

JC said:


> Actually, Nerri, that is the point. He intends to kill the mouse by CO2. Common practice in snake hobby to feed them to snakes.  Only I don't know how fast/effective it will be on a mouse though. Should take it out faster than an invert.


CO2 kill chambers for rodents are very quick acting and humane.  Mammals are designed to recognize increased levels of CO2 in their bloodstream as suffocation.  Thus when you hold your breath your lungs begin to burn and if something is preventing you from breathing you panic.

a CO2 kill chamber floods the space the rodent is in with CO2.  It continues to breathe but their is not enough oxygen to support life.  Lungs actively release CO2 and take in Oxygen, not the other way around.  Therefore the animals blood CO2 levels never reach a point to trigger a suffocation reaction.  The animal passes out and dies.  They just lay down go to sleep and never wake up.  If you're really interested I can get you some do it yourself designs for such chambers.  You would be shocked by how simple and effective they are for euthanizing rodent feeders.

Reactions: Like 1


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## sjl197 (May 19, 2011)

Hi All,

Some nice comments.

Just want to come back to Kirk, and say i especially like this setup for exotic places where CO2 in canisters aren't easily transported to, or where dry ice isnt available. Yes, when a local source of dry ice is available, that's a very good idea... just remember to store it packed tight in a box which is sealed very tightly from outside air, then store frozen. Else you end up with an empty box of useless cool air like i once did.

Otherwise, yes the canisters from a soda stream machine can be a useful CO2 source, but airplanes dont like to transport those. I have used CO2 for knocking out spiders prior to putting electronic location tags (PIT tags) into the abdomen, for tracking the specimen and checking its exact identity. When we did a trial in the lab, we got CO2 from a plastic tube coming from the ceiling. I still have no idea where that CO2 came from.

regards


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## HotPocket (May 19, 2011)

Bigboy said:


> CO2 kill chambers for rodents are very quick acting and humane.  Mammals are designed to recognize increased levels of CO2 in their bloodstream as suffocation.  Thus when you hold your breath your lungs begin to burn and if something is preventing you from breathing you panic.
> 
> a CO2 kill chamber floods the space the rodent is in with CO2.  It continues to breathe but their is not enough oxygen to support life.  Lungs actively release CO2 and take in Oxygen, not the other way around.  Therefore the animals blood CO2 levels never reach a point to trigger a suffocation reaction.  The animal passes out and dies.  They just lay down go to sleep and never wake up.  If you're really interested I can get you some do it yourself designs for such chambers.  You would be shocked by how simple and effective they are for euthanizing rodent feeders.


Ya if you can pm  me some designs. I would greatly appreciated  it. I would be trying to not quite kill them but if i could get them in a state were they are dazed it would be much safer for the snake.  And i believe much more humane  for the rodents than feeding them off fully aware. I have been looking for a way to do this for quite a while.

---------- Post added at 02:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:23 PM ----------




Nerri1029 said:


> CO2 does NOT have the same effect on mammals.
> This could be considered abuse, or definitely mistreatment of a warmblooded vertebrate.
> 
> The methods shown were intended only for invertebrates.




I am sorry if you look at this as abuse but I think it would be much better than the practice of "thunking" Which is were the rodent is put in a paper bag and slammed on a counter top to knock them out. That I think is animal abuse and have never even considered doing. But every time i ask for a way to daze feeders that seems to be the response i get. I take great care to be as humane as possible to live feeders. I am also sorry for the casual way i word things I don't want to be misinterpreted but i am a pretty laid back person.


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## Nerri1029 (May 19, 2011)

HotPocket said:


> I am sorry if you look at this as abuse but I think it would be much better than the practice of "thunking" Which is were the rodent is put in a paper bag and slammed on a counter top to knock them out. That I think is animal abuse and have never even considered doing. But every time i ask for a way to daze feeders that seems to be the response i get. I take great care to be as humane as possible to live feeders. I am also sorry for the casual way i word things I don't want to be misinterpreted but i am a pretty laid back person.


I am not a snake person, and I am not in the least bit squeamish, or am I the kind of person to make an issue. My comment was precautionary that someone else might interpret it that way.

I had a tokay gecko that would eat hoppers, and yes I would "thunk" them.
I have euthanized a kitten, a canary, and several mice. I have little issue with death, esp if it fits the natural order.


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## BrynWilliams (May 19, 2011)

Nerri, I read through your (rather good) presentation that you put a link up for and I had a question.

Do you use any consistent 'markers' for when the T is safely 'anaesthetised'. Someone else mentioned using when the spinarettes are down/limp. Or is it more a case of gas it until it stops moving?

I ask because i'm very interested in attempting this method to box up a few specimens that are speed queens and love running. 

Cheers

Bryn


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## Nerri1029 (May 19, 2011)

BrynWilliams said:


> Nerri, I read through your (rather good) presentation that you put a link up for and I had a question.
> 
> Do you use any consistent 'markers' for when the T is safely 'anaesthetised'. Someone else mentioned using when the spinarettes are down/limp. Or is it more a case of gas it until it stops moving?
> 
> ...


I go until there is no response.
I'd like to do a more quantitative study but .. no time.


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## Bigboy (May 20, 2011)

CO2 euthanasia do it yourself.  I won't repost here because it is not my information, but the links are available if you'd like to go to their source.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?55509-My-Feeder-Euthanizer-(DIY-CO2-chamber)

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?33850-Feeder-Euthanasia-the-Easy-Way-and-Humane-too...


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## HotPocket (May 20, 2011)

big Boy you are the man! i cant believe i had never thought of this. thank you very much!


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## bwd (May 21, 2011)

Bigboy said:


> CO2 euthanasia do it yourself.  I won't repost here because it is not my information, but the links are available if you'd like to go to their source.
> 
> http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?55509-My-Feeder-Euthanizer-(DIY-CO2-chamber)
> 
> http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?33850-Feeder-Euthanasia-the-Easy-Way-and-Humane-too...


Just something those guides don't mention. Make sure you aren't just flooding the holding tank. Start with a slow supply of CO2 until the animals are unresponsive. It is then safe to flood the enclosure. If you add too much too quickly the animals start gasping for oxygen and in my opinion are suffering.


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