# Stromatopelma calceatum escapee



## AndyByerly (Jun 10, 2016)

Has anyone had any luck with finding a Feather Leg Baboon escapee? It has been about 24 hours as of now since it escaped and knowing that they are arboreal I've been keeping an eye on my walls and ceilings. I recently bought it at a show but had to make a larger vent hole in the container until I could re-house it into what I plan to be its final enclosure. To my surprise and obvious negligence I underestimated it's Houdini skills.

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## TownesVanZandt (Jun 10, 2016)

Oh, that´s certainly not a tarantula you would like to have on the loose! By now, it can literally be anywhere, you just have to keep searching for it. I hope you don´t have kids in your house? Good luck!

Reactions: Agree 9


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## Red Eunice (Jun 10, 2016)

TownesVanZandt said:


> Oh, that´s certainly not a tarantula you would like to have on the loose! By now, it can literally be anywhere, you just have to keep searching for it. I hope you don´t have kids in your house? Good luck!


 Agreed!! Or any other pets for that matter. If its a sling, after 24 hours, could be anywhere, not just walls or ceiling, into a vent....  A thorough search of the room it was last kept in then on to the next. Sealing each searched room before continuing to the next. It may seem exhausting, but with its potent venom, I personally wouldn't stop searching til its found.
 Best of luck in the search!

Reactions: Agree 4


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## Chris LXXIX (Jun 10, 2016)

Ah ah, i think that the arboreal 'Hell Spawn', terror of African fruit trees workers, is hiding in your beard :-s

jok

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 4


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## Chris LXXIX (Jun 10, 2016)

Seriously now: do this (not always works uh, but better, like we say in Italy, than a "kick in the manly parts") put a water dish on the floor, in the room she escaped (assuming that she didn't went in another room, or even out) turn off the lights, wait, turn on, keep searching.

Another thing to do is checking the dress closet and so forth, a guy here not too much time ago, found his escaped _P.murinus _inside that.

And lot of good luck man, that venom isn't a joke, as you know.

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## Venom1080 (Jun 10, 2016)

they can fit through anything the size of their carapace for future reference. i wouldnt rest till its caught. if it gets out of the house and bites some one, it could potentially take out the hobby in your state. its a responsibility to own a t like that. but hey, best of luck.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Chris LXXIX (Jun 10, 2016)

Venom1080 said:


> if it gets out of the house and bites some one, it could potentially take out the hobby in your state.


I understand but, in that very unlucky bite scenario out in the hood, who could point his/her finger to the OP, saying something like: "That was one of your spider/s ?" No one.

And, for damage the hobby, someone should ID properly the _Theraphosidae_ after the bite (therefore recognizing the spider as a non U.S native one) otherwise, if a "bite and run" happens, who will been able to blame who?


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## EulersK (Jun 10, 2016)

Oh man. I'm not even kidding - if an adult of that species got loose in my house, all bets are off. Break out the pesticides. My dog and family are far, far more important than a single spider.

Reactions: Agree 13 | Sad 1


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## Venom1080 (Jun 10, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> I understand but, in that very unlucky bite scenario out in the hood, who could point his/her finger to the OP, saying something like: "That was one of your spider/s ?" No one.
> 
> And, for damage the hobby, someone should ID properly the _Theraphosidae_ after the bite (therefore recognizing the spider as a non U.S native one) otherwise, if a "bite and run" happens, who will been able to blame who?


not so much pointing the finger at him, but tarantula keeping as a whole. believe it or not, not a lot of people are on board with T keeping and wouldnt mind T keeping to not exist.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Andrea82 (Jun 10, 2016)

Be sure to check shoes and boots before putting them on. Just because it is arboreal doesn't mean it will go up. It was probably scared stressed and angry so it would go to the first dark hiding spot it encounterd. Check clothing, curtains, shelves. Was the room you were transferring it in closed or was the door open?
If you have kids and/or other pets, they need to stay somewhere else, until either the spider is found, or the house is nuked with pesticides.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Chris LXXIX (Jun 10, 2016)

Venom1080 said:


> believe it or not, not a lot of people are on board with T keeping and wouldnt mind T keeping to not exist.


Say that to me, man, ah ah? I started to keep T's in 1992, the first in a more than 80.000 people city, and continued after where in this a.. arachnid-hating puppet republic called _Italy _those, all of a sudden, went illegal, in 2003.

Without giving a damn. Still i don't. I know well those type of folks.


What i wanted to say to you, basically is:

- Let's say OP _S.calceatum_ escaped out "in da hood".

- a bite to the first "f-word" idiot (without a clue about spiders nor aware of the T's hobby) happened/will happen.

- He/She/Others (if present) can't/aren't able to find (and catch cup!) the culprit, leading hence to a proper ID of the _Theraphosidae _so i assume this:
- "Aaaahh! Dafaq!" <-- sound of bite screaming & that _S.calceatum_, with fast as light speed, (re)escapes in few seconds.

Tell me how someone could blame the hobby if the (hypothetical) bitten person isn't even aware of what the hell bitten him in the first place.
Yeah, two little holes... a spider. But spiders are present as well in the U.S and, the pain, you say?
They can't associate 'Baboons' with that... definitely not uneducated on the subject fools :-s

The hobby risk nothings if the T's aren't spotted and ID as that.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Lollipop 1


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## Venom1080 (Jun 10, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> Say that to me, man, ah ah? I started to keep T's in 1992, the first in a more than 80.000 people city, and continued after where in this a.. arachnid-hating puppet republic called _Italy _those, all of a sudden, went illegal, in 2003.
> 
> Without giving a damn. Still i don't. I know well those type of folks.
> 
> ...


well if a S cal escapes into a, ah, "hood", surely its bound to be caught eventually. probably taken to the authority's and eventually ID. finding out what it is will probably associate it with the pet trade. which can lead to problems. a escaped S cal could survive quite a while as theres really no predators and temps are high. some ones gonna see this big spider, scream and get some one to catch it or kill it. i just dont think it will not lead to problems if the T gets out side. but, i dont think the OP mentioned how big the spider is. chances are its a sling seeing how it escaped through a vent hole. and hey, maybe he lives out in the country.

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## Chris LXXIX (Jun 10, 2016)

Venom1080 said:


> well if a S cal escapes into a, ah, "hood", surely its bound to be caught eventually. probably taken to the authority's and eventually ID. finding out what it is will probably associate it with the pet trade. which can lead to problems. a escaped S cal could survive quite a while as theres really no predators and temps are high. some ones gonna see this big spider, scream and get some one to catch it or kill it. i just dont think it will not lead to problems if the T gets out side. but, i dont think the OP mentioned how big the spider is. chances are its a sling seeing how it escaped through a vent hole. and hey, maybe he lives out in the country.


Oh, of course, man. Of course. Everything could happens. But IMO it's more likely that the bugger disappears, or end smashed/stomped. Those, as you know, are extremely fast spiders, and it's not easy at all to catch those in the street, with nothing at hand for (at homes, at least, we have catch cups and else ready at hand at the end) especially by "non used to deal with" people.

Indeed, to make 2 + 2 with the culprit in hands would be quite easy and the hobby could be affected by that.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Vanessa (Jun 10, 2016)

Just coming to check if this guy lives near me.
Whew!
I have read a couple of escapee threads and the tarantula was eventually found in a backpack and the tube of a vacuum cleaner. Leave no spot unturned... seriously. Even if you think it is impossible to be in a specific place - check it anyway.
Check everywhere... and then check everywhere again.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Walter1 (Jun 10, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> I understand but, in that very unlucky bite scenario out in the hood, who could point his/her finger to the OP, saying something like: "That was one of your spider/s ?" No one.
> 
> And, for damage the hobby, someone should ID properly the _Theraphosidae_ after the bite (therefore recognizing the spider as a non U.S native one) otherwise, if a "bite and run" happens, who will been able to blame who?


Hey- how about the person who owns the escapee actually has a concience and takes resposibility for buying a god danned dangerous spider for ALL the wrong reasons. Think of that, or is its escape still funny and a <edited> question of who's to blame???

Reactions: Dislike 2 | Disagree 1


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## Walter1 (Jun 11, 2016)

Andybyerly- Do the world a favor for the world, not you and squish the Strom IF you even find it. Then, think about your interests vs your responsibilities. That's right, I'm not sympathetic to your dilemma. I don't give a <edited> as to why/how it escaped.

My concern is for people potentially paying a potentially steep price for for your stupidity!

Reactions: Dislike 5


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## Toxoderidae (Jun 11, 2016)

Walter1 said:


> Andybyerly- Do the world a favor for the world, not you and squish the Strom IF you even find it. Then, think about your interests vs your responsibilities. That's right, I'm not sympathetic to your dilemma. I don't give a <edit> as to why/how it escaped.
> 
> My concern is for people potentially paying a potentially steep price for for your stupidity!


Yo man, stop swearing. Also, that's pretty harsh. IF he does find it, then hopefully he'll have learned. I've had a couple escapes, one of which was a Pokie. I still learned from it, and now I never worry about escapes

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## Walter1 (Jun 11, 2016)

Toxoderidae said:


> Yo man, stop swearing. Also, that's pretty harsh. IF he does find it, then hopefully he'll have learned. I've had a couple escapes, one of which was a Pokie. I still learned from it, and now I never worry about escapes


Too bad. It's harsh reality. I'm sympathetic to mistakes. Not sympathetic, nor will be, to cavalier attitude to OW escapee.

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## Toxoderidae (Jun 11, 2016)

Walter1 said:


> Too bad. It's harsh reality. I'm sympathetic to mistakes. Not sympathetic, nor will be, to cavalier attitude to OW escapee.


Well A. the dude knew what happened, and he's obviously trying to fix. He's not some incompetent "I got this to look all stronk" guy. So you're saying when my Hanum got out (while I was relatively new) you'd just tell me I should never keep tarantulas again? Get outta here boi

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## Walter1 (Jun 11, 2016)

Walter1 said:


> Too bad. It's harsh reality. I'm sympathetic to mistakes. Not sympathetic, nor will be, to cavalier attitude to OW escapee.


Screw rhe so-called "hobby" concern. Keeping venomous anything isn't just about the buyer's wants, it's first and foremost about everyone else that could be unnecessarily and irresposibly negatively impacted.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Disagree 1


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## Toxoderidae (Jun 11, 2016)

Walter1 said:


> Screw rhe so-called "hobby" concern. Keeping venomous anything isn't just about the buyer's wants, it's first and foremost about everyone else that could be unnecessarily and irresposibly negatively impacted.


Look dude, get off your pedestal. I keep them, and yes, I have family, and they could be very negatively impacted by my spiders. Does that mean I should just open their enclosures and crush them all because there is A CHANCE something bad could happen? NO. If you believe this so much about keeping tarantulas, why do you even keep? Just get rid of your spiders then if you feel this negative towards people, especially ones who keep OW.

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## Venom1080 (Jun 11, 2016)

@Walter1 for all we know, this guys been keeping for a decade, is single and owns a house, has no other pets that can be impacted and just had his 1" S cal sling escape. maybe its the first time a T ever escaped and he wants advice on how to find it.

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## Walter1 (Jun 11, 2016)

Toxoderidae said:


> Look dude, get off your pedestal. I keep them, and yes, I have family, and they could be very negatively impacted by my spiders. Does that mean I should just open their enclosures and crush them all because there is A CHANCE something bad could happen? NO. If you believe this so much about keeping tarantulas, why do you even keep? Just get rid of your spiders then if you feel this negative towards people, especially ones who keep OW.


<edited>! One, I'm not on any pedestal. Two, your family at risk is bad enough. for people that don't even know you to be potentially exposed to a danger you caused is indefensible. what is that?? OW Ts. So, no, I'm not getting rid of my NWs.

Keep to the subject- Priveliges and responsibilities.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Toxoderidae (Jun 11, 2016)

Walter1 said:


> Horseshit! One, I'm not on any pedestal. Two, your family at risk is bad enough. for people that don't even know you to be potentially exposed to a danger you caused is indefensible. what is that?? OW Ts. So, no, I'm not getting rid of my NWs.
> 
> Keep to the subject- Priveliges and responsibilities.


My entire family knows very well what I own, and what their venom could do. Again, quit swearing, and yeah, you should quit keeping if you feel so negative about tarantulas and their venom.

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## Vanessa (Jun 11, 2016)

I think that @Walter1 speaks for a lot of people who are just bloody sick and tired of hearing stories like this. And while he might be a bit confrontational in his response - he is spot on that a lot of people in this hobby seem to be unable to grasp the concept of privilege and responsibility.
Maybe they need to spend some time living in one of the hundreds of places that have bans on tarantulas to get a little taste of what can happen when these scenarios go poorly?
Carelessness caused this to happen - it was not an accident. And people have to stop making lame excuses for people who refuse to understand that avoiding accidents is something that you actually have to make an effort to do. You prevent accidents from happening - you don't just do whatever you please and hope that they don't happen!  Good grief... if I had a dime for every time I asked myself how some people even make it to adulthood.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Andrea82 (Jun 11, 2016)

Anyone else notice that Andy is afwully quiet? Beginning to suspect trolling on a whole new level...
@AndyByerly , where are you? Busy searching, in the hospital, or enjoying the flamewar you started?

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## Chris LXXIX (Jun 11, 2016)

Walter1 said:


> Hey- how about the person who owns the escapee actually has a concience and takes resposibility for buying a god danned dangerous spider for ALL the wrong reasons. Think of that, or is its escape still funny and a bullshit mastubation question of who's to blame???


You got it all *wrong*, man. While i could agree with what you said about respect and ethic, we was talking (i was replying to Venom1080) about possible scenario/s concerning "the possible" escape of his spider out of his house. A thing that, first, we doesn't even know happened (the spider could be in his room hidden somewhere, for what we know).

I've just said that chances of put the hobby at risk, for that, are low even if a bite happens, since i doubt that not prepared persons could catch a _S.calceatum_ easy on the street.

With that said, everything could and couldn't happens, on the paper. The intentions here weren't to mock him at all; i love jokes but i don't joke on certain issues, rest assured.

Edit:

While i have my personal views about _S.calceatum_ (i know pretty well that spider) and, here in Italy, for lots of good reasons, one that is considered a point of arrival and not exactly something to take lightly and mess around, i don't know the OP.

I doubt, on a personal feeling, that he's a skilled keeper with years of experience and "know how" under his belt, but still i don't know him at the end.
So i can't say that he bought that spider for the wrong reasons.


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## Walter1 (Jun 11, 2016)

Worth it once more- The person whose Stromatopelma escapes and puts someone in the hospital or worse deserves a lawsuit, not pity or sympathy.


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## Chris LXXIX (Jun 11, 2016)

Walter1 said:


> Worth it once more- The person whose Stromatopelma escapes and puts someone in the hospital or worse deserves a lawsuit, not pity or sympathy.


I agree with that.


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## MrsHaas (Jun 11, 2016)

VanessaS said:


> Just coming to check if this guy lives near me.
> Whew!
> I have read a couple of escapee threads and the tarantula was eventually found in a backpack and the tube of a vacuum cleaner. Leave no spot unturned... seriously. Even if you think it is impossible to be in a specific place - check it anyway.
> Check everywhere... and then check everywhere again.


After my husband accidentally left her enclosure cracked and my E. Pachypus escaped a few years ago and was missing for two months.  I finally found her, sadly deceased, under a table cloth that my cat had been sleeping on all day so I assume he squished her.  It broke my heart but at least no one got bit, I have to look at the silver lining.  I hope you find your t, OP, and as Vanessas pointed out, leave no spot unturned!


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## kooky (Aug 17, 2016)

Walter1 said:


> Worth it once more- The person whose Stromatopelma escapes and puts someone in the hospital or worse deserves a lawsuit, not pity or sympathy.


You do know, there are many pets that can render people in the hospital. Dogs can be dangerous, there are plenty of times dogs have escaped and attacked someone and they ended up in the hospital. Does that mean we kill all dogs because there is a chance they could do harm to someone? no. Large parrots could hospitalize someone, even cats can via tetnus. All pets are the responsibility of their owner, and they can all be dangerous. I understand dogs and such are trainable but anything with teeth can be harmful. Its exactly the same for this hobby. You cant condone someone for the pet they keep if they make a mistake, its not like he set it loose on purpose to murder innocent children and pet bunnies.

Edit: i just checked the dates on the last post. Sorry x.x i would delete but i dont know how D:

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## CindyMoon (Aug 17, 2016)

Andy, did you find it? (sorry if you have answered already, can't seem to find it)


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## EulersK (Aug 17, 2016)

CindyMoon said:


> Andy, did you find it? (sorry if you have answered already, can't seem to find it)


The OP stopped replying ages ago, even while the thread was active. I smell someone who just wanted to sling a rock at the hornet's nest.

EDIT: Correction. He never replied after making the thread in the first place.

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## Vanessa (Aug 17, 2016)

Walter1 said:


> Worth it once more- The person whose Stromatopelma escapes and puts someone in the hospital or worse deserves a lawsuit, not pity or sympathy.





kooky said:


> You do know, there are many pets that can render people in the hospital. Dogs can be dangerous, there are plenty of times dogs have escaped and attacked someone and they ended up in the hospital. Does that mean we kill all dogs because there is a chance they could do harm to someone? no. Large parrots could hospitalize someone, even cats can via tetnus. All pets are the responsibility of their owner, and they can all be dangerous. I understand dogs and such are trainable but anything with teeth can be harmful. Its exactly the same for this hobby. You cant condone someone for the pet they keep if they make a mistake, its not like he set it loose on purpose to murder innocent children and pet bunnies.


He didn't say that the spider should be killed - he said that the owner should have a law suit against him... and he's absolutely right. At no point did I see Walter suggest that the spider pay the price. His anger and frustration is clearly directed where it belongs... with the person who lost the spider.
People who get *ANY* animal that they are unprepared for and who can cause serious damage to others, whether that be other animals or people, ruin it for everyone around them and they need to be held accountable for that. Many people here live in places where bans are in place due to irresponsible people who are in way over their heads and do not take that seriously.
The spider in question here is one of the most dangerous in the hobby and has medically significant venom. People have to take that seriously and far too many of them don't. You need to be responsible and, if you are in over your head, you need to find someone with more experience, and who will be more responsible, to take the animal off your hands.

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## Vanessa (Aug 17, 2016)

CindyMoon said:


> My thoughts exactly while reading over this thread.. Shm.. Some people just have to rant over anything. Just move on with your life already, nobody gives a s.. about your whiny opinions, Walter.


You might want to maybe consider making a different type of first impression on this forum.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## CindyMoon (Aug 17, 2016)

VanessaS said:


> You might want to maybe consider making a different type of first impression on this forum.


Hmm.. No, I don't really think of it that way. I will say what I feel like as long as I am not breaking rules, and here I am replying to someone who is being rude. I will be who I am and say what I feel and not pretend at first in order to make an impression. But thanks for the advice

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## CindyMoon (Aug 17, 2016)

VanessaS said:


> You might want to maybe consider making a different type of first impression on this forum.


And sure, could have rephrased what I said a bit, but I still stand by it. I'm against whining about something that is merely someones own thought or opinion especially when it is only put out to hurt/be rude and not to help or advice.


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## jiacovazzi (Aug 17, 2016)

CindyMoon said:


> Hmm.. No, I don't really think of it that way. I will say what I feel like as long as I am not breaking rules, and here I am replying to someone who is being rude. I will be who I am and say what I feel and not pretend at first in order to make an impression. But thanks for the advice


Was he being rude?, thats your opinion. And you can take your opinion, and you can fly a kite with it.

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## CindyMoon (Aug 17, 2016)

jiacovazzi said:


> Was he being rude?, thats your opinion. And you can take your opinion, and you can fly a kite with it.


Hmm, yes he was. He was swearing at first (it was edited out) among other things  But you go ahead and act like that, talking about making good first impressions.

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## jiacovazzi (Aug 17, 2016)

CindyMoon said:


> Hmm, yes he was. He was swearing at first (it was edited out) among other things  But you go ahead and act like that, talking about making good first impressions.


I know Walter as a friend, hobbyist, and fellow academic. He cares greatly for the hobby and is angered like myself by others carelessness with the most potent T available in our hobby. Not unreasonable.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## kooky (Aug 17, 2016)

VanessaS said:


> He didn't say that the spider should be killed - he said that the owner should have a law suit against him... and he's absolutely right. At no point did I see Walter suggest that the spider pay the price. His anger and frustration is clearly directed where it belongs... with the person who lost the spider.
> People who get *ANY* animal that they are unprepared for and who can cause serious damage to others, whether that be other animals or people, ruin it for everyone around them and they need to be held accountable for that. Many people here live in places where bans are in place due to irresponsible people who are in way over their heads and do not take that seriously.
> The spider in question here is one of the most dangerous in the hobby and has medically significant venom. People have to take that seriously and far too many of them don't. You need to be responsible and, if you are in over your head, you need to find someone with more experience, and who will be more responsible, to take the animal off your hands.


he did at one point say to squish the strom if he ever finds it as its doing the world a favour or something. Its not that im taking the fact it can hospitalize people lightly, its just that a lot of pets can do that. Ofc owners need to be responsible, but the fact he came on here and only condemned the owner, instead of offering advice seemed a bit harsh. At least imo.


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## CindyMoon (Aug 17, 2016)

jiacovazzi said:


> I know Walter as a friend, hobbyist, and fellow academic. He cares greatly for the hobby and is angered like myself by others carelessness with the most potent T available in our hobby. Not unreasonable.


Ok, and I can say I get completely where he's coming from even thought I don't agree 100%. I just thought he could have gotten it out a little better way, that's all.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## jiacovazzi (Aug 17, 2016)

kooky said:


> he did at one point say to squish the strom if he ever finds it as its doing the world a favour or something. Its not that im taking the fact it can hospitalize people lightly, its just that a lot of pets can do that. Ofc owners need to be responsible, but the fact he came on here and only condemned the owner, instead of offering advice seemed a bit harsh. At least imo.


If you were faced with an escaped S.calceatum and you didn't have a catch cup or something to recapture it handy, what would you do? Leave to get a cup, during which it may bolt to another hiding place or kill it? Any other options?


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## CindyMoon (Aug 17, 2016)

EulersK said:


> The OP stopped replying ages ago, even while the thread was active. I smell someone who just wanted to sling a rock at the hornet's nest.
> 
> EDIT: Correction. He never replied after making the thread in the first place.



I noticed that.. Got me a bit worried. Either he's a troll or he's been eaten.


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## Vanessa (Aug 17, 2016)

Have I mentioned lately how much I love the ignore function on this forum? It might be a good time to mention it again.

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## Toxoderidae (Aug 17, 2016)

VanessaS said:


> Have I mentioned lately how much I love the ignore function on this forum? It might be a good time to mention it again.


For whom this time?

Reactions: Funny 2


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## kooky (Aug 17, 2016)

jiacovazzi said:


> If you were faced with an escaped S.calceatum and you didn't have a catch cup or something to recapture it handy, what would you do? Leave to get a cup, during which it may bolt to another hiding place or kill it? Any other options?


Honestly speaking, if it was me, I would rather be bitten returning it to an enclosure than i would killing it. Even if i ended up in the hospital because of it. I dont believe in just killing things that are our responsibility if you can help it. If i get bit recapturing it, then so be it. But thats my opinion. I live alone, and without children so.


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## Matabuey (Aug 17, 2016)

I bet there are loads of experienced keepers that have had things escape - but they won't say anything. 

Just like how a lot of venomous snake keepers that get bit, keep it to themselves to save themselves the embarrassment.

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## jiacovazzi (Aug 17, 2016)

kooky said:


> Honestly speaking, if it was me, I would rather be bitten returning it to an enclosure than i would killing it. Even if i ended up in the hospital because of it. I dont believe in just killing things that are our responsibility if you can help it. If i get bit recapturing it, then so be it.


You are totally entitled to your opinion. But I am a realist. And this species is NO JOKE. 

You mean to tell me you would rather be bitten to "save it" and not only require hospitalization, medical bills, and shedding NEGATIVE LIGHT on the hobby, rather than squishing it to eliminate the possibility of it bolting to possibly bite others? 
That's not logical or responsible to me at all. Furthermore, value wise the spider isn't worth much, and yeah I know all life is sacred blah blah blah, I wouldn't risk others health because of my negligence.

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## EulersK (Aug 17, 2016)

kooky said:


> Honestly speaking, if it was me, I would rather be bitten returning it to an enclosure than i would killing it. Even if i ended up in the hospital because of it. I dont believe in just killing things that are our responsibility if you can help it. If i get bit recapturing it, then so be it. But thats my opinion. I live alone, and without children so.


It hasn't happened yet, but this spider has the potential to kill. It's beyond a painful spider bite. I said it before, and I'll say it again:

If I had this spider escape under my care and I wasn't able to find it, I'd break out the pesticides. My family and dog are more important than a single spider.

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## jiacovazzi (Aug 17, 2016)

EulersK said:


> It hasn't happened yet, but this spider has the potential to kill. It's beyond a painful spider bite. I said it before, and I'll say it again:
> 
> If I had this spider escape under my care and I wasn't able to find it, I'd break out the pesticides. My family and dog are more important than a single spider.


Absolutely, that's the responsible thing to do. And again, how bad would it look for our hobby if an escapee bit someone and seriously hurt them? The media and others will judge us all based on the negligent few.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Vanessa (Aug 17, 2016)

jiacovazzi said:


> The media and others will judge us all based on the negligent few.


The will and they already have in a lot of places.


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## jiacovazzi (Aug 17, 2016)

VanessaS said:


> The will and they already have in a lot of places.


Right, so we don't need any more bad press. We're trying to displace untrue rumors about spiders, not give them more ammunition.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Venom1080 (Aug 17, 2016)

Matabuey said:


> I bet there are loads of experienced keepers that have had things escape - but they won't say anything.
> 
> Just like how a lot of venomous snake keepers that get bit, keep it to themselves to save themselves the embarrassment.


its easy and not uncommon to have a spider escape during rehouse time. ive had two OW arboreals get away but since i was prepared, i caught both within a half hour. having a spider escape from its cage by itself is bad on the hobby and the keeper and is very rare for some one experienced.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Hellblazer (Aug 17, 2016)

EulersK said:


> It hasn't happened yet, but this spider has the potential to kill. It's beyond a painful spider bite. I said it before, and I'll say it again:
> 
> If I had this spider escape under my care and I wasn't able to find it, I'd break out the pesticides. My family and dog are more important than a single spider.


Definitely. I would rather risk the rest of my collection being exposed to any pesticide residue when I brought them back into the house than have the death of one of the family dogs or the hospitalization of my wife or son on my conscience.

Reactions: Agree 4


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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 17, 2016)

EulersK said:


> It hasn't happened yet, but this spider has the *potential to kill*. It's beyond a painful spider bite.


I love the fact that here you are one of the few with the guts for say that; a bite in the neck, or head area from those jumping bolts of fury could lead to lights off.

Too much folks in the hobby keeps ranting the "_Theraphosidae _never killed no one" mantra, and, while as far as I know this is correct, no one think for a minute about a bite (or multiple bites) in a very delicate area, like if a scenario like that belongs to Sci-Fi only

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## Garth Vader (Aug 17, 2016)

I think it is a good point that if a T like this escaped and harmed someone, the press and blowout could be detrimental to the hobby.  People seem to like jumping on stories about how evil spiders are.  I read about the 200 rare tarantulas bred at the British zoo, a very cool story, and many of the reader comments were about how awful and creepy they are, burn them with fire, etc.  Also, it seems that the general public does not realize that there are huge variations in species as far as temperament, venom, and speed, not to mention appearance.  I think if a very venomous T like this escaped and harmed someone, the entire hobby would be blamed and it would be about "burn them all", etc.  

That being said, I realize things can happen even with our best intentions, but oh my gosh I worry about people being complacent in this hobby. I definitely tend towards being overly cautious with most things, but with this hobby I think that is a good quality to have.  Escapes are so serious and nerve wracking and it also seems like Ts are very GOOD at escaping.  I was just following on the AB facebook page that someone's OBT escaped and it took well over 24 hours to find (and thankfully was found and captured with no harm to T or owner).  Just to be careful, I place two heavy text books over my enclosures every night and my Ts are pretty mellow (A anax and E sp "red").

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## jiacovazzi (Aug 17, 2016)

nothing from @kooky ? Thought not.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 17, 2016)

spidertherapy78 said:


> I think it is a good point that if a T like this escaped and harmed someone, the press and blowout could be detrimental to the hobby.  People seem to like jumping on stories about how evil spiders are.  I read about the 200 rare tarantulas bred at the British zoo, a very cool story, and many of the reader comments were about how awful and creepy they are, burn them with fire, etc.  Also, it seems that the general public does not realize that there are huge variations in species as far as temperament, venom, and speed, not to mention appearance.  I think if a very venomous T like this escaped and harmed someone, the entire hobby would be blamed and it would be about "burn them all", etc.
> 
> That being said, I realize things can happen even with our best intentions, but oh my gosh I worry about people being complacent in this hobby. I definitely tend towards being overly cautious with most things, but with this hobby I think that is a good quality to have.  Escapes are so serious and nerve wracking and it also seems like Ts are very GOOD at escaping.  I was just following on the AB facebook page that someone's OBT escaped and it took well over 24 hours to find (and thankfully was found and captured with no harm to T or owner).  Just to be careful, I place two heavy text books over my enclosures every night and my Ts are pretty mellow (A anax and E sp "red").


Ah ah joking moment 
If one of those, or my centipede, escapes in my hood the neighbours will reach my house with torches and pitchforks like in pure middle ages witch hunts era, or like in old Hammer movies for the final battle with the "monster", singing 'Death to Chris' mocking 'Death to the world' song

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## Garth Vader (Aug 17, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> Ah ah joking moment
> If one of those, or my centipede, escapes in my hood the neighbours will reach my house with torches and pitchforks like in pure middle ages witch hunts era, or like in old Hammer movies for the final battle with the "monster", singing 'Death to Chris' mocking 'Death to the world' song

Reactions: Funny 10


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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 17, 2016)

spidertherapy78 said:


> View attachment 218135
> View attachment 218135


Ah ah yes

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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 17, 2016)

spidertherapy78 said:


> Just to be careful, I place two heavy text books over my enclosures every night and my Ts are pretty mellow (A anax and E sp "red").


Ah ah, you know I had the same idea for my centipede since I was concerned about their incredible escape ability but never did. I suppose I should use old good Dante's _Divina Commedia_ for banish that unruly demon

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## Vanessa (Aug 17, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> Ah ah, you know I had the same idea for my centipede since I was concerned about their incredible escape ability but never did. I suppose I should use old good Dante's _Divina Commedia_ for banish that unruly demon


I love the way you talk about your lovely little centipede. The apple of your eye.
This will go down as being one of my favourite posts ever...



Chris LXXIX said:


> There's a lot of floor and wide space of course. Now the centipede is under the cork bark, where burrowed, is out mostly for eat when he/she's hungry... but *I saw* the bugger climbing, *I saw* that creepy trying to open the top with the head, *I saw *that nasty munching with _forcipules _the plastic, overall...* I saw *his/her _antennae _(part of those) out of the enclosure, LOL.
> That bugger changed my life.
> Jesus Christ  I hope/pray that my sort of "Mafioso's" deal will continue: a _B.dubia_ when out, always. No bites/escapes raptures in exchange

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## kooky (Aug 17, 2016)

jiacovazzi said:


> nothing from @kooky ? Thought not.


i already replied? There was no need to respond to the comment after because by that point it was just opinion vs opinion.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## jiacovazzi (Aug 17, 2016)

kooky said:


> i already replied? There was no need to respond to the comment after because by that point it was just opinion vs opinion.


Thumbs up

Reactions: Like 1


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## kooky (Aug 17, 2016)

jiacovazzi said:


> Thumbs up


O i forgot to mention. Luckily for me i live in the UK so we don't have medical bills....although our doctors are also terrible at times compared to other countries. You want anything treated here we fly to america lol.

Edit: on second thought after considering the UK medical care i change my mind. haha.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 17, 2016)

VanessaS said:


> I love the way you talk about your lovely little centipede. The apple of your eye.
> This will go down as being one of my favourite posts ever...


Ah ah, you can say that 

I'm in the same position of the 'Don' (Marlon Brando) with Sollozzo, the 'Turk'  <-- Eek!


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## Matabuey (Aug 17, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> I love the fact that here you are one of the few with the guts for say that; a bite in the neck, or head area from those jumping bolts of fury could lead to lights off.
> 
> Too much folks in the hobby keeps ranting the "_Theraphosidae _never killed no one" mantra, and, while as far as I know this is correct, no one think for a minute about a bite (or multiple bites) in a very delicate area, like if a scenario like that belongs to Sci-Fi only


Palm wine workers are bitten often enough where they're endemic, and no deaths have occurred where medical facilities are no match for what we have here in the West.

Researchers have been out there before, none of them have come back with any stories of anyone dying - those types of stories would be the types of stories that are passed down to each generation.

It's pretty much impossible that anyone is realistically going to die from any tarantula. And the evidence doesn't suggest otherwise. Unless there are a very acute set of circumstances, but that could happen with a lot of other animals too, that do not usually cause death.


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## Matabuey (Aug 17, 2016)

kooky said:


> O i forgot to mention. Luckily for me i live in the UK so we don't have medical bills....although our doctors are also terrible at times compared to other countries. You want anything treated here we fly to america lol.
> 
> Edit: on second thought after considering the UK medical care i change my mind. haha.


Yeah what, i was about to say, our medical care is amazing for free haha. I have friends that have been bitten by their rattlesnakes, for example, that would've cost them $50k plus in America . If it's anything life threatening you'll be seen to straight away - regardless.


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## EulersK (Aug 17, 2016)

Matabuey said:


> Palm wine workers are bitten often enough where they're endemic, and no deaths have occurred where medical facilities are no match for what we have here in the West.
> 
> Researchers have been out there before, none of them have come back with any stories of anyone dying - those types of stories would be the types of stories that are passed down to each generation.
> 
> It's pretty much impossible that anyone is realistically going to die from any tarantula. And the evidence doesn't suggest otherwise. Unless there are a very acute set of circumstances, but that could happen with a lot of other animals too, that do not usually cause death.


I'd suggest this reading to everyone on this thread:
http://arachnoboards.com/threads/sy...-old-world-tarantula-spiders-lamprope.285467/

If those symptoms appeared in a healthy, grown man, then it is not that far off to imagine a child dying from a wet bite. 

The vast, vast majority of tarantulas are, at the end of the day, harmless. But there are a select few that have the potential to kill, given certain (but not impossible) circumstances. Such as an S. calceatum getting loose in a house due to negligence.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Matabuey (Aug 17, 2016)

EulersK said:


> I'd suggest this reading to everyone on this thread:
> http://arachnoboards.com/threads/sy...-old-world-tarantula-spiders-lamprope.285467/
> 
> If those symptoms appeared in a healthy, grown man, then it is not that far off to imagine a child dying from a wet bite.
> ...


Lots of things could kill a child that wouldn't kill an adult.

And not being funny, spasms or intense swelling are nothing to write home about.

A boiga dendrophila could potentially kill a small child. But in general conversation no one says they're life threatening, as in 99.99% of cases they're not.

Tarantulas are no different.

You think children haven't been bitten in countries where old world species exist?


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## EulersK (Aug 17, 2016)

Matabuey said:


> Lots of things could kill a child that wouldn't kill an adult.
> 
> And not being funny, spasms or intense swelling are nothing to write home about.
> 
> ...


But we're not talking about other things, we're talking about tarantulas. 

It wasn't just a matter of spasms. The man was having heart arrhythmia, and "just a spasm" of the diaphragm can lead to asphyxiation. 

I absolutely believe that children have been bitten; I also believe that they would largely be unreported due to the localities involved here. 

Look, no one is saying that these are strictly deadly creatures. Just that they have the ability, which they most certainly do. Saying that no tarantula is deadly is simply false - just that there have been no reported fatalities does not mean that the potential isn't there. Again, it would be rare, but people need to understand that these animals aren't a joke. The entire point of these forums is to educate, and making light of a creature that could do this much harm is literally the opposite of education.

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## Vanessa (Aug 17, 2016)

Matabuey said:


> You think children haven't been bitten in countries where old world species exist?


Reporting in those countries is just as unreliable as health care is. The truth is that the vast majority of time you would never hear of a death if one occurred. How much detail did you see being reported about the recent Ebola outbreak - other than how it affected a handful of North Americans who were over there helping? Believe me, you are never going to hear of a small child, malnourished and unhealthy in all likelihood, in some small village dying of a tarantula bite.
Any spider bite being identified 100% accurately is not possible unless you take the spider into the doctor with you. Even spider bites in the United States are vastly inaccurate with some bites being attributed to spiders which are not even spiders at all. Misdiagnosis in North America is the norm, so how can you think that it is any better in Togo?
I can assure you, having had personal friends who have visited Western African countries like Senegal, Ghana, Togo etc., specifically to photo document the lack of any semblance of acceptable health care, that there definitely have been people who have died from tarantula bites that we would never, ever, even hope to hear about in North America.

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## Matabuey (Aug 17, 2016)

EulersK said:


> But we're not talking about other things, we're talking about tarantulas.
> 
> It wasn't just a matter of spasms. The man was having heart arrhythmia, and "just a spasm" of the diaphragm can lead to asphyxiation.
> 
> ...


My point is, they might be life threatening in very acute circumstances - the frail/ill and very young.

For the most part they're not.

They are to be respected, never said otherwise.

I like to base judgments on evidence, and there is no evidence to suggest that they pose a serious threat to someone's life. Any more so than a wasp (very particular circumstances).


Bite reports always get out, no matter how remote. It happens for snakes, and it would also happen for tarantulas. People talk.

Agree to disagree.


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## Matabuey (Aug 17, 2016)

VanessaS said:


> Reporting in those countries is just as unreliable as health care is. The truth is that the vast majority of time you would never hear of a death if one occurred. How much detail did you see being reported about the recent Ebola outbreak - other than how it affected a handful of North Americans who were over there helping? Believe me, you are never going to hear of a small child, malnourished and unhealthy in all likelihood, in some small village dying of a tarantula bite.
> Any spider bite being identified 100% accurately is not possible unless you take the spider into the doctor with you. Even spider bites in the United States are vastly inaccurate with some bites being attributed to spiders which are not even spiders at all. Misdiagnosis in North America is the norm, so how can you think that it is any better in Togo?
> I can assure you, having had personal friends who have visited Western African countries like Senegal, Ghana, Togo etc., specifically to photo document the lack of any semblance of acceptable health care, that there definitely have been people who have died from tarantula bites that we would never, ever, even hope to hear about in North America.


Malnourished and unhealthy - like I said plenty of animals can kill and malnourished and unhealthy individual. They're not labelled life threatening.

Tarantulas are not life threatening in normal circumstances. Show me evidence otherwise.

Oh and really? How do you think it's so well known how many people die from Echis bites in Africa? When most live in completely remote locations without proper health care. It's made up is it?

People talk.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Poec54 (Aug 17, 2016)

Matabuey said:


> Palm wine workers are bitten often enough where they're endemic.


 
And that's based on the meticulously documented medical records West Africa is known for?  They have a lot of deadly animals in Africa, and tarantulas are well down on the list of concerns, even if someone is occasionally killed by a Stromatopelma bite in the head or neck.  Not really headline news for them when far more people there are regularly dying from a combination of civil wars, disease, famine, lack of medicine, poor sanitation, etc.  They'd much rather take their chances with a feisty tarantula than a bite from a cobra or mamba. 

No doubt the first thing they'd do in some remote village where illiteracy is rampant, is find a doctor to document a tarantula death for hobbyists in the US.  3rd world countries can't even produce accurate counts of snake bite fatalities, and those are a far bigger health concern for them.  What do you expect from the locals?  The guy dies, there's no doctor or hospital around; they'd bury him and get back to work.  To them, it's another day working in the forest, which is always a risk.

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## EulersK (Aug 17, 2016)

Matabuey said:


> Tarantulas are not life threatening in normal circumstances. Show me evidence otherwise.


I already have, and you dismissed heart arrhythmia and severe spasms as "nothing to worry about" (did you actually read the article I referenced?). If such severe symptoms in a healthy grown man is not evidence, then it appears as if you'll take nothing short of a death certificate citing a tarantula bite as the cause of death, which as you know does not exist. For the rest of us, that article is more than evidence enough.

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## Poec54 (Aug 17, 2016)

Matabuey said:


> My point is, they might be life threatening in very acute circumstances - the frail/ill and very young.
> 
> For the most part they're not.


 
Correct,_ for the most part_.  But bites in the head or neck are far more serious, and that's where a Stromatopelma is likely to bite someone climbing a tree or palm.  They're also known for giving multiple bites in raid succession.  For the unfortunate souls that get bitten several times in the head by a Stromatopelma, they're going to have some real problems.  It's not just those in poor health that could die in those circumstances.

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## EulersK (Aug 17, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> They're also known for giving multiple bites in raid succession.


Whoa, now _this_ I wasn't aware of. Are other species/genera known for this? And would those successive bites be very wet, considering how quickly they were delivered?


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## Poec54 (Aug 17, 2016)

EulersK said:


> I already have, and you dismissed heart arrhythmia and severe spasms as "nothing to worry about" (did you actually read the article I referenced?). If such severe symptoms in a healthy grown man is not evidence, then it appears as if you'll take nothing short of a death certificate citing a tarantula bite as the cause of death, which as you know does not exist. For the rest of us, that article is more than evidence enough.


 
Absolutely.  How many people that die in 3rd world countries get autopsies & death certificates?  Their rates of death, and causes, are mind boggling by western standards.  That's what those poor people have to contend with every day.

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## Vanessa (Aug 17, 2016)

Matabuey said:


> People talk.


Sure they do - and they talk about evil spells and "Bad Juju" killing people in that part of the world too.
If you can't provide a more logical explanation than that - then you have nothing to defend your argument.

Reactions: Like 1 | Disagree 1


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## Matabuey (Aug 17, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> And that's based on the meticulously documented medical records West Africa is known for?  They have a lot of deadly animals in Africa, and tarantulas are well down on the list of concerns, even if someone is occasionally killed by a Stromatopelma bite in the head or neck.  Not really headline news for them when far more people there are regularly dying from a combination of civil wars, disease, famine, lack of medicine, poor sanitation, etc.  They'd much rather take their chances with a feisty tarantula than a bite from a cobra or mamba.
> 
> No doubt the first thing they'd do in some remote village where illiteracy is rampant, is find a doctor to document a tarantula death for hobbyists in the US.  3rd world countries can't even produce accurate counts of snake bite fatalities, and those are a far bigger health concern for them.  What do you expect from the locals?  The guy dies, there's no doctor or hospital around; they'd bury him and get back to work.  To them, it's another day working in the forest, which is always a risk.


I don't know why you're finding this so difficult to understand.

So someone dies from a tarantula bite, they never speak about it again, they forget about their friend/loved one that died? They don't speak to others, and when other people come to visit, they don't speak of what occurred?

They talk. People always talk. Stories would become exaggerated, such as "he died from a tarantula in 5 seconds". Much how _Deinagkistrodon acutus_, has the nickname 100 pacer - they wouldn't kill you in a 100 paces, but someone has effectively spoken chinese whispers.

*I'm sure you're familiar with this documentation: *

Copyright Exothermae Publications
Duinenweg 453, 8430 Middelkerke Belgium

Stromatopelma Bites 

Man's culture here is responsible for a form of co-habitation that is not as endearing as co-habitation with Avicularia in South America. And if the occasional bites of the well-known "pink-toes" is never more than a pin-prick, the savage bites of Stromatopelma are all the opposite. Portrait of the most fearsome West-African Theraphosid: Stromatopelma calceata griseipes.

Over its whole range, Stromatopelma's inhabiting commercial palm trees cause a large number of accidents amongst the peoples climbing the palm tree for a daily living.

In sierra Leone, the Limbe people are notorious for both their production and consumption of the pouyou - palm wine - the national drink of the country. In all the areas where I worked on Stromatopelma, I was involved with Limbe people, because they are the most agile climbers...and they know in which part of the tree the spiders live. In normal life, however, they locate the spiders in order to _avoid_ them. In all these Limbe communities in the bush, all elderly palm-wine cutters had been bitten several times. Thirty year old tree owners had almost all been bitten at least once. Upon the single collecting trip I had, 9 people were bitten - tribute to the irascible temper of the "pigeon spider".

The first accident involved a freshly recruited (and paid) climber who worked his way up the tree - much to my horror - without belting himself like they would in Guinea or Guinea Bissau. The man was followed attentively by two colleagues who watched him reach the crown of the tree. the "hunter" exclaimed that he'd found the nest he was talking about, slipped his hand underneath the frond and was immediately bitten once in the palm of the hand. Since he hadn't belted himself and he was forty feet high, he couldn't let go of the palm frond and was bitten a second time in the hand.

The man immediately came down the tree, without the spider, and was tended at once with an Aspivenin extractor. Pain spread very quickly to his elbow, then to his shoulder and chest area. After 3 1/2 hours, , he had heart contractions that were extremely painful and lasted for a full half hour, a thoroughly nerve-racking experience since we were miles away from any civilisation. I visited the man the next day and the day after, and after the second day, his hand had swollen to twice its normal size: seconday infection. I treated it at once with a course of Bactrim.

The second bite occured in the same circumstances three days later, but the unfortunate helper was savagely bitten on the arm. The consequences were identical to the first accident, if slightly less pronunciated and with a slower venom-spread.

Two days later, a keen and experienced climber who owned the overpopulated tree of Masuba was bitten on the left foot when he climbed his tree, when he had lodged his foot in a crevice of the bark scales. The man kicked at the spider, flicking it downwards ten inches... and the spider(a nice, large female), charged back up the tree and bit him a second time.

The most serious accident to occur involved an obtrusive soldier who wanted to show how well he could climb a palm tree and his colleague. The soldier had found a nest a few days before and brought along a relatively dumb-witted colleague for this foray in the bush. The tree was a fairly big one, about fifty feet tall, and, in traditional Sierra Leonean style, the soldier just "walked up" the tree without anything like a belt or a rope for haul-ups.

Arriving at the crown, he quickly located the nest. Equipped with a glove and a pair of tweezers, he'd forgotten his collecting cup down the tree with his colleague and decided the foolhardiest thing he could possibly devise: he would catch and hold it in a glove. This could have worked for any terrestrial species, but certainly not up a fifty foot palm tree in the middle of nowhere. Micheal (the soldier) opened the palm frond and was met by the female with spread legs and fangs. He coaxed her outwards with the tweezers while holding his hand open to catch her with the glove, but the female dashed forward, lightning-fast, ran across his glove, bit him in the arm above the glove's edge and jumped off.

To my complete horror, the other soldier was waiting down the tree, right beneath the crown, and was looking upwards when Micheal started yelling after being bitten and we saw the female come floating down, legs entirely spread. Instead of running, the soldier just kept staring and the Stromatopelma landed on the side of his face, darted forward and game him a nasty bite in the middle of the neck. The spider was captured by my niece while the Aspivenin pump was brought out. If Michael ran no risks from an arm bite, as bad as it might have been - the other guy was visibly very scared and it hurt a lot. I am sure that, without the immediate intervention of a primed and ready venom extraction kit, this young fellow might well have died. His throat was swollen and the pain radiated to his face, optical nerves, chest with heart contractions starting less than two hours after the bite, with the pain spreading downwards to his gonads..... a most horrible place to feel that kind of pain.
The heart contractions ceased after another hour and forty minutes. The aspivenin kit had been used within 40 seconds and was used for forty minutes, no doubt bruising the area around the bite. I tried to reassure the victim as best I could, and was relieved to hear him say that the pain was receding...six hours and a half after the bite had been inflicted.
In later days, the soldier was off-duty for a week, and when I left he still complained that his neck and throat area sometimes felt slightly painful.

Although I would consider death as almost impossible, bites in certain areas of the body (like the described neck-bite) or in persons with a faulty heart could be extremely dangerous. Stromatopelma is the link between the relatively harmless mass of Theraphosids, and the few species that can be life-threatening to man. It certainly isn't a species that is to be neglected in case of serious bites, and it has to be considered as venomous since it does cause systemic distress that follows a particular pattern and always involves problems with the heart. Stromatopelma should be reserved for the serious worker."




_Now_, you really think someone wouldn't have mentioned to Phillip Charpentier, that one of their friends died to an S.cal x amount of years ago? Or they've conveniently forgotten about that? Of course not. They would've pointed it out, seeing as they were out collecting those specimens and talking about bites.

Not sure why tarantula keepers like to make it out as if they're keeping something incredibly dangerous, maybe  it boosts their ego - who knows.

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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 17, 2016)

EulersK said:


> Whoa, now _this_ I wasn't aware of. Are other species/genera known for this? And would those successive bites be very wet, considering how quickly they were delivered?


Genus _Chilobrachys _deliver multiple bites in a row. My _P.muticus_ delivered three bites in not even 5 seconds once when she was pissed off with a _B.dubia_ near her burrow, hissing like a Cobra... quite nice for such a bulky beast

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## louise f (Aug 17, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> My _P.muticus_ delivered three bites in not even 5 seconds, quite nice for such a bulky beast


And you want ME to get one of those And you say it is nice, no no no friend ice cream is nice I`ll tell you that

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## Matabuey (Aug 17, 2016)

EulersK said:


> I already have, and you dismissed heart arrhythmia and severe spasms as "nothing to worry about" (did you actually read the article I referenced?). If such severe symptoms in a healthy grown man is not evidence, then it appears as if you'll take nothing short of a death certificate citing a tarantula bite as the cause of death, which as you know does not exist. For the rest of us, that article is more than evidence enough.


Like i said, plenty of animals can do similar and are not labelled as life threatening. 

You can die from a Bee or Ant sting, no one goes round calling them life threatening because they're able to kill in acute circumstances.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## EulersK (Aug 17, 2016)

Matabuey said:


> Stromatopelma is the link between the relatively harmless mass of Theraphosids, and the few species that can be life-threatening to man.


... in your own quote. You prove our point in your own quote. This is exactly what we're talking about here. 

_Again_. We're not saying that death is certain or even likely with a wet bite. But even your expert says exactly what we're saying - that it is possible and should be taken seriously.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## EulersK (Aug 17, 2016)

Matabuey said:


> You can die from a Bee or Ant sting, no one goes round calling them life threatening because they're able to kill in acute circumstances.


Except that, no, some species of bees absolutely are considered deadly. 

You'll notice I've never brought up allergies, because I think that's a cop-out argument. I read an article about a woman who was deathly allergic to lavender. I'm talking about healthy, normal human beings.


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## Matabuey (Aug 17, 2016)

EulersK said:


> ... in your own quote. You prove our point in your own quote. This is exactly what we're talking about here.
> 
> _Again_. We're not saying that death is certain or even likely with a wet bite. But even your expert says exactly what we're saying - that it is possible and should be taken seriously.


You clearly don't understand what his quote is saying there 

He is saying S.cal is the link between harmless spiders to the ones that can cause death readily - they're in between. Not that they're capable of killing. 

He says it is practically impossible. Conveniently missed that part out.


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## Poec54 (Aug 17, 2016)

EulersK said:


> Whoa, now _this_ I wasn't aware of. Are other species/genera known for this? And would those successive bites be very wet, considering how quickly they were delivered?


 
The only other animal I know of that does that on occasion is Dendroaspis polylepis.  Considering how worked up both Black Mambas and Stromatopelma can get defending themselves, they both probably give wet bites regularly.


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## EulersK (Aug 17, 2016)

Matabuey said:


> Although I would consider death as almost impossible, bites in certain areas of the body (like the described neck-bite) or in persons with a faulty heart could be extremely dangerous. Stromatopelma is the link between the


There, quoted the part you're referring to. He _again_ says that bites in certain parts of the body can be extremely dangerous. 

Exactly like we've been saying.


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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 17, 2016)

louise f said:


> And you want ME to get one of those And you say it is nice, no no no friend ice cream is nice I`ll tell you that


Now, now... ah ah, I do know that I have sides when it comes to the *Goddess*, but now I'm serious 

IMO (females especially) 0.1 _P.muticus_ are by far the toughest defensive _Theraphosidae_. They do not retreat in their burrow, they stand, hiss, and bite. And not always in this order.

Granted, they can't jump like a _S.calceatum_ nor they possess that speed, but to underestimate those beasts is a great error.

With that said, once they settled up under an helluva of substrate inches, IMO is one of the best, easy to work with, _Theraphosidae _ever and I swear this.

To scavenge those big Ladies from their burrow (for a show, for a sale etc) is always something that require a Zen/McGyver attitude.

They will fight :-s

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 3


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## Matabuey (Aug 17, 2016)

EulersK said:


> Except that, no, some species of bees absolutely are considered deadly.
> 
> You'll notice I've never brought up allergies, because I think that's a cop-out argument. I read an article about a woman who was deathly allergic to lavender. I'm talking about healthy, normal human beings.


Good job you didn't bring up allergies actually.

Having an allergic reaction to venom works by being exposed to it previously. You'd have to have been bitten before, or exposed to venom particulates from that species.

And in the case of tarantula venom, it is practically impossible to become allergic to their venom due to their make up, as previously outlined by Dr. Bryan Fry.


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## Matabuey (Aug 17, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> The only other animal I know of that does that on occasion is Dendroaspis polylepis.  Considering how worked up both Black Mambas and Stromatopelma can get defending themselves, they both probably give wet bites regularly.


Plenty of species of venomous snakes will deliver wet evenomations more often than not. That is not exclusive to D.polylepis.


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## EulersK (Aug 17, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> With that said, once they settled up under an helluva of substrate inches...


You're not kidding, my friend. My tiny 1.5" sling has already dug to the bottom of a 7" jar. I couldn't believe it when I got up the morning after rehouse it.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## AphonopelmaTX (Aug 17, 2016)

Matabuey said:


> And in the case of tarantula venom, it is practically impossible to become allergic to their venom due to their make up, as previously outlined by Dr. Bryan Fry.


Reference please.  I would like to know how it is impossible to be allergic to tarantula venom according to Dr. Fry.

Reactions: Agree 4


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## Matabuey (Aug 17, 2016)

AphonopelmaTX said:


> Reference please.  I would like to know how it is impossible to be allergic to tarantula venom according to Dr. Fry.


He has removed his forum.

And I said practically impossible, meaning a very small chance. Near enough impossible.

And the extract has been posted on AB before. I will try to find it, and send Dr.Fry a message now too.


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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 17, 2016)

EulersK said:


> You're not kidding, my friend. My tiny 1.5" sling has already dug to the bottom of a 7" jar. I couldn't believe it when I got up the morning after rehouse it.


Oh btw, I forgot to ask. What do you think? Yes I know yours is little of course but still :-s


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## EulersK (Aug 17, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> Oh btw, I forgot to ask. What do you think? Yes I know yours is little of course but still :-s


Well you know that I love my burrowers, so it's great so far. I've had it about a week so far, very interesting species. Not defensive at all so far, just very skittish. 

I know to keep a sling humid, but how much humidity does yours require? I can't seem to find a consensus. Seems like they should be kept the same as an H. gigas, yeah?


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## AphonopelmaTX (Aug 17, 2016)

Matabuey said:


> He has removed his forum.
> 
> And I said practically impossible, meaning a very small chance. Near enough impossible.
> 
> And the extract has been posted on AB before. I will try to find it, and send Dr.Fry a message now too.


If there isn't a peer reviewed research article to reference, then don't worry about it.  I've heard the rumor so many times on this site about how one can't be allergic to tarantula venom along with no supporting statements that I'm left to shrug it off with all of the other rumors and misinformation that runs rampant among tarantula keepers.  A post on this forum or an extract of an article doesn't count as a reference.  I'm looking for the article name, journal it was published in, year, volume, issue, etc. so I can go find it myself.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## Matabuey (Aug 17, 2016)

AphonopelmaTX said:


> If there isn't a peer reviewed research article to reference, then don't worry about it.  I've heard the rumor so many times on this site about how one can't be allergic to tarantula venom along with no supporting statements that I'm left to shrug it off with all of the other rumors and misinformation that runs rampant among tarantula keepers.  A post on this forum or an extract of an article doesn't count as a reference.  I'm looking for the article name, journal it was published in, year, volume, issue, etc. so I can go find it myself.


Go message Bryan Fry on Facebook, can't get any better than that.

It's to do with the size of the peptides in tarantula venom, that make it highly unlikely that an allergic reaction can occur.


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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 17, 2016)

EulersK said:


> Well you know that I love my burrowers, so it's great so far. I've had it about a week so far, very interesting species. Not defensive at all so far, just very skittish.
> 
> I know to keep a sling humid, but how much humidity does yours require? I can't seem to find a consensus. Seems like they should be kept the same as an H. gigas, yeah?


Well mine is an adult and I keep her on bone dry substrate (a lot of inches, almost 12) with a pretty nice sized glass water dish always full, while on the hother hand, I keep my female _H.gigas_ with that same amount of substrate inches, but on the 'humid' side :-s

I've never raised a _P.muticus_ sling, that was too much for me (meaning: waiting *forever *and then end with a male, here in Italy, where breeding/trade etc  is pretty hard and always an adventure, no thanks) but I would keep one more or less like you: lot of substrate, a little water dish and, due to the sling stage, sometimes a bit of water drops in the substrate.

Reactions: Helpful 1


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## EulersK (Aug 17, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> Well mine is an adult and I keep her on bone dry substrate (a lot of inches, almost 12) with a pretty nice sized glass water dish always full, while on the hother hand, I keep my female _H.gigas_ with that same amount of substrate inches, but on the 'humid' side :-s
> 
> I've never raised a _P.muticus_ sling, that was too much for me (meaning: waiting *forever *and then end with a male, here in Italy, where breeding/trade etc  is pretty hard and always an adventure, no thanks) but I would keep one more or less like you: lot of substrate, a little water dish and, due to the sling stage, sometimes a bit of water drops in the substrate.


Bone dry, huh? Then I should be able to get away with only rarely over filling the water dish. That's very surprising, I was expecting a humid species. They do seem like hardy little things, though, so I'm not too surprised.


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## Matabuey (Aug 17, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> The only other animal I know of that does that on occasion is Dendroaspis polylepis.  Considering how worked up both Black Mambas and Stromatopelma can get defending themselves, they both probably give wet bites regularly.


Adding to my previous comment, this is one my Uracoan rattlesnakes. This little one was being assist fed, every time it would try to bite me, it would send venom running down my finger - as you can see in the pic. 

https://imgur.com/0sI8gic

Some species/individuals are more/less frivolous with their use of venom. 

However without running proper tests, it's hard to say which species do give wet bites more often than not. In a real life situation - where they aren't being restrained. 

Dry bites aren't the ones that get reported, so you never really know.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Garth Vader (Aug 17, 2016)

I just want to throw out my .02 about reports of animal bites in the developing world.  I lived in sub-Saharan Africa for a few years and based on what I observed it can be quite possible that people die from various ailments, including animal bites, and it simply isn't reported to whomever would need that information.  The rural health centers are disorganized and typically understaffed and with minimal supplies.  Many people are sick at home, or die at home.  I observed a few deaths in the village where people didn't really know how the individuals died, and in a place like that most deaths are assumed to be related to malaria.  I will say, that as far as children being harmed by Ts, I noticed that kids and the elderly typically did not go into the bush, which would reduce their chances of being harmed by such animals.  Areas outside of the village were treated with fear, especially at night, because of snakes, hyenas, and other critters (there was also talk of ghosts and whatnot, which hell I even started to believe in while I was there!).  I never saw any Ts there, but lots of snakes and some scorpions.  Most of the snakes where I lived were highly venomous, like black mambas, puff adders, green mambas, from what I recall.  My guess is that Ts are out there and I just never saw them.  I went on daily walks out in the bush and people thought I was crazy and usually someone from the village followed me to make sure the crazy foreign lady didn't get hurt by something.  It was an adventure.  Again, just my .02.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 2


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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 17, 2016)

EulersK said:


> Bone dry, huh? Then I should be able to get away with only rarely over filling the water dish. That's very surprising, I was expecting a humid species. They do seem like hardy little things, though, so I'm not too surprised.


I have to tell you, I have heard, when it comes to _P.muticus_ and 'humidity' a lot of different opinions, just like you said prior.

Those that said: bone dry & water dish. Other said: bone dry but over fill a bit the water dish sometimes. Others, the important is that the burrow remains moist/slightly moist. And, like Mr. Schultz said, to let drop of water inside the burrow. This last IMO is the best move for end with an hissing bulky monster 

What work for me is bone dry substrate/nice sized (bigger than my _P.muticus_) water dish. I spot her have a good drink often, then she turns gently in her burrow like nothing, disappearing like Homer in Ned Flanders bushes

Reactions: Funny 3


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## EulersK (Aug 17, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> disappearing like Homer in Ned Flanders bushes


I'm fairly certain that you know more about American pop culture than I do

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 17, 2016)

EulersK said:


> I'm fairly certain that you know more about American pop culture than I do


Ah ah no, just a bit 

Oh btw I forgot to mention prior about_ P.muticus_ the important detail that of course you have to consider; where someone lives :-s


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## gypsy cola (Aug 17, 2016)

so was the spider ever found?


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## Crone Returns (Aug 17, 2016)

jiacovazzi said:


> You are totally entitled to your opinion. But I am a realist. And this species is NO JOKE.
> 
> You mean to tell me you would rather be bitten to "save it" and not only require hospitalization, medical bills, and shedding NEGATIVE LIGHT on the hobby, rather than squishing it to eliminate the possibility of it bolting to possibly bite others?
> That's not logical or responsible to me at all. Furthermore, value wise the spider isn't worth much, and yeah I know all life is sacred blah blah blah, I wouldn't risk others health because of my negligence.





EulersK said:


> I'd suggest this reading to everyone on this thread:
> http://arachnoboards.com/threads/sy...-old-world-tarantula-spiders-lamprope.285467/
> 
> If those symptoms appeared in a healthy, grown man, then it is not that far off to imagine a child dying from a wet bite.
> ...


That's the best interesting I've read about bite reports. Thanks for the info. 
...quietly reloads her .357 in case that spider shows up...8 inch venom machine that jumps on you is close to the It's Alive baby...

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## EulersK (Aug 17, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> Ah ah no, just a bit
> 
> Oh btw I forgot to mention prior about_ P.muticus_ the important detail that of course you have to consider; where someone lives :-s


Certainly, which is why your "bone dry" means "mildly humid" to me. The Boot has that lovely ocean wind blowing in, all I get is California's smoke.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Poec54 (Aug 17, 2016)

Matabuey said:


> Like i said, plenty of animals can do similar and are not labelled as life threatening.
> 
> You can die from a Bee or Ant sting, no one goes round calling them life threatening because they're able to kill in acute circumstances.



Bees and ants are _potentially_ dangerous, _potentially_ life threatening, in certain circumstances.  Most of the time not, but there's always an unlucky few.  We're saying the same thing applies to some OW's in certain situations. 

I don't know why you're finding this so difficult to understand.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 2


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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 17, 2016)

EulersK said:


> The Boot has that lovely ocean wind blowing in, all I get is California's smoke.


Christ, man... being you I would turn full 'Jack Shining Nicholson', pump this song at max, while starting to plan some 'Tim McVeigh' joke for fix things 






Joking of course :-s

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Poec54 (Aug 17, 2016)

spidertherapy78 said:


> I lived in sub-Saharan Africa for a few years and based on what I observed it can be quite possible that people die from various ailments, including animal bites, and it simply isn't reported to whomever would need that information.  The rural health centers are disorganized and typically understaffed and with minimal supplies.  Many people are sick at home, or die at home.  I observed a few deaths in the village where people didn't really know how the individuals died, and in a place like that most deaths are assumed to be related to malaria.



Thank you.  It's totally unrealistic to expect all deaths to be diagnosed and reported in third world countries.  They have their hands full trying to deal with the problems of the living. They need food and medicine, not detailed record-keeping.  A lot of people there die for a lot of reasons, and they don't have a handle on it.  Many of the ones outside of the cities are illiterate and superstitious, and wouldn't believe anyone else in the world would care who dies of what in their country.  It's a big deal to hobbyists in western nations, but of little interest to anyone else.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 1


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## Garth Vader (Aug 17, 2016)

gypsy cola said:


> so was the spider ever found?


Oh yeah. That's what this thread was about!

Reactions: Funny 4


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## EulersK (Aug 17, 2016)

The ironic thing is that this thread is almost certainly a troll post.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 2


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## Matabuey (Aug 17, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> Bees and ants are _potentially_ dangerous, _potentially_ life threatening, in certain circumstances.  Most of the time not, but there's always an unlucky few.  We're saying the same thing applies to some OW's in certain situations.
> 
> I don't know why you're finding this so difficult to understand.


Those animals have killed healthy adults - tarantulas have not.

Would you say a false water cobra is life threatening then? Because that could kill in certain circumstances.

But we shall just agree to disagree and you can keep thinking you keep some incredibly dangerous species of animal.

Water is life threatening if you drink too much, so now we must make sure every bottle is labelled with "potentially life threatening".


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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 17, 2016)

Matabuey said:


> But we shall just agree to disagree and you can keep thinking you keep some incredibly dangerous species of animal.


He had a Cobra collection in the past, I'm sure he knows pretty well dangerous species of animals.


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## Matabuey (Aug 17, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> Thank you.  It's totally unrealistic to expect all deaths to be diagnosed and reported in third world countries.  They have their hands full trying to deal with the problems of the living. They need food and medicine, not detailed record-keeping.  A lot of people there die for a lot of reasons, and they don't have a handle on it.  Many of the ones outside of the cities are illiterate and superstitious, and wouldn't believe anyone else in the world would care who dies of what in their country.  It's a big deal to hobbyists in western nations, but of little interest to anyone else.


Not all, but some would be reported. And none have.

It's just so convenient that every single tarantula related death that's happened has gone unreported, how wonderful.

People in third world countries report deaths from other species all the time, but no, they cannot report a death from the almighty tarantula.

Just like stuff like this gets reported from Indian villages:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-19348834

I like how you skipped the part where I asked if you thought that the locals where S.cal is from, would fail to tell him of tarantula related deaths - when he was there to study that species. Of course they wouldn't.


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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 17, 2016)

The problem is not a bite from a _S.calceatum_. Those bites happened, and there's bite reports. No one so far died from a bite delivered by those in a finger, for instance. And those people, however, were adults and, I assume, healthy in general.

Problem is, a bite of one of those (let's say an adult female) in the neck, head area. Sure, a remote, maybe bizarre scenario. But can happens. On such case, I wouldn't been so certain about an happy ending.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Matabuey (Aug 17, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> The problem is not a bite from a _S.calceatum_. Those bites happened, and there's bite reports. No one so far died from a bite delivered by those in a finger, for instance. And those people, however, were adults and, I assume, healthy in general.
> 
> Problem is, a bite of one of those (let's say an adult female) in the neck, head area. Sure, a remote, maybe bizarre scenario. But can happens. On such case, I wouldn't been so certain about an happy ending.


Yeah, one person was already bitten in the neck in that report. Fine after a day or so. 

People have been bitten on the face from rattlesnakes/gaboon vipers, and survived. 

And you think someone is going to die from a tarantula. Nice joke.

Anyway, it's clear we disagree, so no point in going round in circles.


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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 17, 2016)

Matabuey said:


> Yeah, one person was already bitten in the neck in that report. Fine after a day or so.
> 
> People have been bitten on the face from rattlesnakes/gaboon vipers, and survived.
> 
> ...


No. I have said (the sense I mean) that "everything can happens", which is different, man. Because we are different, at the end.

We have a different age, weight, height, healt, and so forth to consider. Therefore, while those bites reports are indeed extremely importants, we can't IMO take things for granted.

For which reason/s, if not, certain people bitten by the same _Theraphosidae_, _Pterinochilus murinus_ (mere example) had different kind of reactions?

Once, user @cold blood, told us about a Lady he knows that, after the bite of a 'Pokie' (I don't remember exactly which one, now) her arm literally (I saw the pics) turned gray, and not for a short time. Imagine the effects on her, if that bite had happened in the head or another delicate area.

Basically I'm talking about things like that.

Reactions: Like 1 | Love 1


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## tnerd93 (Aug 17, 2016)

http://imgur.com/a/YqBNJ

going to die guys help D:

Reactions: Like 1 | Lollipop 2


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## Poec54 (Aug 17, 2016)

Matabuey said:


> Not all, but some would be reported. And none have.



You seem to know more about what goes on in those countries than the residents there do.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Matabuey (Aug 17, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> You seem to know more about what goes on in those countries than the residents there do.


You seem to be highly deluded, in that you think deaths can be reported from various other species of animal from 3rd world countries, except tarantulas.

http://allafrica.com/stories/201504170478.html

Oh a scorpion related death reported in a Nigerian village, but no, tarantula related deaths cannot be reported, it is forbidden.

But anyway, I'm out. Keep thinking these animals are more dangerous than they are. They deserve respect, just for the uncomfortable position they can put you in. Nothing more, no different to a something like a _Boiga dendrophila_.


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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 17, 2016)

tnerd93 said:


> http://imgur.com/a/YqBNJ
> 
> going to die guys help D:


Nah. You wouldn't enter Mensa International either, but die? Tomfoolery I say

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Venom1080 (Aug 17, 2016)

tnerd93 said:


> http://imgur.com/a/YqBNJ
> 
> going to die guys help D:


why?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## EulersK (Aug 17, 2016)

Venom1080 said:


> why?


Because I'm pretty sure that's an S. calceatum juvie. 

I'm done here. The point has been made, and has been said, I'm going to agree to disagree. You all have a great night, I look forward to seeing this thread on the front page for days to come.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Venom1080 (Aug 17, 2016)

EulersK said:


> Because I'm pretty sure that's an S. calceatum juvie.
> 
> I'm done here. The point has been made, and has been said, I'm going to agree to disagree. You all have a great night, I look forward to seeing this thread on the front page for days to come.


i know, but why hold it? just useless and dumb.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Octagon (Aug 17, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> Christ, man... being you I would turn full 'Jack Shining Nicholson', pump this song at max, while starting to plan some 'Tim McVeigh' joke for fix things
> 
> 
> 
> ...


After all these years, still that iconic, beautiful song slips the mind into a jet stream.

Reactions: Like 1


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## cold blood (Aug 17, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> Once, user @cold blood, told us about a Lady he knows that, after the bite of a 'Pokie' (I don't remember exactly which one, now) her arm literally (I saw the pics) turned gray, and not for a short time.


P. fasciata

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## Vanessa (Aug 17, 2016)

Matabuey said:


> Oh a scorpion related death reported in a Nigerian village, but no, tarantula related deaths cannot be reported, it is forbidden.


We can't even confirm for certain how many people died in the Ebola outbreak in West Africa with the entire world watching, but hell... a couple of spider bites could never go undetected! Because thousands of people dying of Hemorrhagic Fever are far more likely to go unnoticed, and unreported, than a handful of spider bite deaths.
That is not logical.

http://www.bbc.com/news/health-29628481

From the link above...
"How many people have died from Ebola in West Africa?
It sounds an easy question, but the answer is certainly not.
The most recent official figure from the World Health Organization puts the number of deaths at 4,493.
But 12,000 could be a better estimate. Getting to this figure highlights a number of issues with the Ebola data."

"However, Liberia, Sierra Leone and Guinea have some of the worst-funded healthcare systems in the world.
We know people are contracting the disease, and dying from it, without being noticed."

Reactions: Agree 3 | Disagree 1


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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 17, 2016)

cold blood said:


> View attachment 218210
> 
> 
> P. fasciata


Christ... always impressive. Thanks for uploading that, man.

Reactions: Lollipop 1


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## EulersK (Aug 17, 2016)

cold blood said:


> View attachment 218210
> 
> 
> P. fasciata


Gotta say, I don't buy it. That absolutely looks photoshopped. Not even good photoshop. It's love to be wrong because of my obvious stance in the matter, though.


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## cold blood (Aug 17, 2016)

EulersK said:


> Gotta say, I don't buy it. That absolutely looks photoshopped. Not even good photoshop. It's love to be wrong because of my obvious stance in the matter, though.


its not photo shopped, I stand to gain nothing by lying.

Reactions: Like 1


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## EulersK (Aug 17, 2016)

cold blood said:


> its not photo shopped, I stand to gain nothing by lying.


Not you at all mate, you're not that type of person to lie on the internet to impress strangers. Sorry if I phrased it that way. If you or someone you trust took that photo, then I'd definitely believe it. Otherwise, it's more internet rumor in my opinion.


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## cold blood (Aug 17, 2016)

EulersK said:


> If you or someone you trust took that photo, then I'd definitely believe it. Otherwise, it's more internet rumor in my opinion.


Someone I both know _and_ trust is the person who's arm that is.

We're not allowed to post pics that aren't "ours" here on AB, those type of pics need to be linked.

Reactions: Like 1


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## EulersK (Aug 18, 2016)

cold blood said:


> Someone I both know _and_ trust is the person who's arm that is.


Then I'm quite interested as to why, exactly, that happened. It's not blue or green like a bruise, it's just grey.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kymura (Aug 18, 2016)

Not to derail this in any way. Actually had been thinking about an _S.calceatum _because I personally think they are beautiful, so, I was, as I generally try to do, researching. Came across this thread ... I am quite positive now, that as lovely as they are I don't need or want one in my house.

Reactions: Agree 4 | Funny 2


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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 18, 2016)

Kymura said:


> Not to derail this in any way. Actually had been thinking about an _S.calceatum _because I personally think they are beautiful, so, I was, as I generally try to do, researching. Came across this thread ... I am quite positive now, that as lovely as they are I don't need or want one in my house.


Wise words, and after all, it's all about the *Goddess * now she's really a gentle and benign one, not a trickster u_u

Reactions: Love 1


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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 18, 2016)

EulersK said:


> Then I'm quite interested as to why, exactly, that happened. It's not blue or green like a bruise, it's just grey.


Me too man. Remained impressed by that 'grey' back then... probably a sort of severe reaction to that potent venom, something involving the single, bitten, person body/health system, don't know. However a perfect example for what we were talking prior, no doubts.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## louise f (Aug 18, 2016)

cold blood said:


> its not photo shopped, I stand to gain nothing by lying.


Yeah sweetie, i remember you posted that pic a while ago.  So @EulersK it is not photo shopped, geez are you that old, can`t you remember that pic, really friend ?

Reactions: Funny 3


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## EulersK (Aug 18, 2016)

louise f said:


> Yeah sweetie, i remember you posted that pic a while ago.  So @EulersK it is not photo shopped, geez are you that old, can`t you remember that pic, really friend ?


I probably missed this one! I usually skim over threads about arboreals

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## louise f (Aug 18, 2016)

EulersK said:


> I probably missed this one! I usually skim over threads about arboreals


Haha, well that happens to all of us. We are after all just human beings not robots.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Matabuey (Aug 18, 2016)

VanessaS said:


> We can't even confirm for certain how many people died in the Ebola outbreak in West Africa with the entire world watching, but hell... a couple of spider bites could never go undetected! Because thousands of people dying of Hemorrhagic Fever are far more likely to go unnoticed, and unreported, than a handful of spider bite deaths.
> That is not logical.
> 
> http://www.bbc.com/news/health-29628481
> ...


Right, so i still don't know why you find this so hard to grasp.

Phillip went to the area in which these spiders are endemic, and where they cause multiple bites per year. Just in his short trip, 9 people were bitten!

Now over the 100's of years, people have been collecting the produce from these trees, 100's if not 1000's of people would've been bitten by these tarantulas. But conveniently Agent K and Agent J came with their Neuralyzer to make sure every one who knew of a tarantula related death, lost their memory. They also went to other countries where old worlds occur and made sure no one could speak of such things ever again. But they allowed people in remote locations to remember deaths from other sp of animals, like snakes or scorpions.

Of course not, if a death had happened in the past, those people he met with would've had stories to tell - but they didn't.

People pass down stories to each generation, it's how tribes people survive. They teach their young children to fear animals x, y and z, for their safety. Such as in South America where i have been on expeditions - the local indigenous folk fear the Lachesis sp - as they *can* kill, and people *have *died. These are not people who have access to health care.

Tarantulas are not feared, anywhere. They do not command fear, as they do not posses the tools to kill a healthy human. It is that simple. You can keep thinking you keep very dangerous animals, I bet you love telling friends and family "but this can kill".

I could do the same for my leopard gecko, i could potentially get an infection if one were to bite me, and that infection may kill me. So let me start by calling my leopard geckos potentially life threatening from now on haha. Anything can be bloody potentially life threatening given the right parameters.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...r-olds-munch-tarantulas-Cambodian-jungle.html

That article, young children are finding old world tarantulas to eat in Cambodia - they wouldn't be out hunting a _Bungarus sp_ or any other sp of animals in Cambodia that are _actually _life threatening. Don't you think when news companies go there to take pictures etc, they would tell them that some of their family have died digging out tarantulas as a result of a bite? They would, the news companies would love to make a story out of that.

The only means we have of determining how dangerous an animal is by means of it's venom, is the rough approximation called LD.50 and known deaths. Plenty of keepers have been bitten by old worlds and S.cal, plenty of people have been bitten by old worlds and S.cal in countries where they're endemic. Yet no one has a single death to report at all. Funny huh.

The LD.50  is around 8.1 mg/kg for a young female, and 9.5 mg/kg for an adult male.

The max average yield from a young female is 18.7 mg - thus it is able to kill a 2.3kg human (LOL).

The max yield obtained from a young female, was 46.6 mg - able to kill a 5.75kg human

The max average yield from an adult male 13.4 mg - able to kill a 1.4kg human

The max yield obtained from an adult male 49.6 mg - able to kill a 5.22 kg human

This paper outlines what i have stated above:

*Venom of an aggressive African Theraphosidae (Scodra griseipes): milking the venom, a study of its toxicity and its characterization*

It can be bought here: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/004101019390113W

I have access to the document through my university, I don't think I'm allowed to share it - legally without permission from Toxicon (Elsevier).

As you can see, not a life threatening animal in 99.99% of cases. But sure if you want to make things up with little to no scientific reasoning - go ahead, feel like I'm talking to a religious group that base their beliefs off speculation.

They deserve respect, just for the fact they can ruin your day. As can snakes such as _Boiga dendrophila_. But to describe them as life threatening in general terms, is absolutely absurd.

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## tnerd93 (Aug 18, 2016)

Venom1080 said:


> i know, but why hold it? just useless and dumb.


why not? its cute

you've never driven over the speed limit? that's dumb, you could have crash and killed yourself

you've never drunk too much alcohol? that's dumb, you could have slipped and killed yourself

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz boring

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## jiacovazzi (Aug 18, 2016)

tnerd93 said:


> why not? its cute
> 
> you've never driven over the speed limit? that's dumb, you could have crash and killed yourself
> 
> ...


Sure, because those are totally equal analogies.

Reactions: Dislike 1 | Agree 3 | Funny 1


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## tnerd93 (Aug 18, 2016)

jiacovazzi said:


> Sure, because those are totally equal analogies.


you're right actually because handling this t is far less dangerous to my life than the other two  thanks for pointing it out

Reactions: Agree 2


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## CindyMoon (Aug 18, 2016)

Matabuey said:


> Right, so i still don't know why you find this so hard to grasp.
> 
> Phillip went to the area in which these spiders are endemic, and where they cause multiple bites per year. Just in his short trip, 9 people were bitten!
> 
> ...


Well said. I'm virtually hugging you right now.

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## jiacovazzi (Aug 18, 2016)

tnerd93 said:


> you're right actually because handling this t is far less dangerous to my life than the other two  thanks for pointing it out


I'll drive 30 in a 25 every day of my life before I handle my S. calceatum. Feel free to handle yours though and report your findings.

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## tnerd93 (Aug 18, 2016)

jiacovazzi said:


> I'll drive 30 in a 25 every day of my life before I handle my S. calceatum. Feel free to handle yours though and report your findings.


dude im pretty sure you and others on here have driven at 90+mph on the highways

that is dangerous, way more dangerous than handling some tarantula lol

speed kills, tarantulas dont

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## jiacovazzi (Aug 18, 2016)

tnerd93 said:


> dude im pretty sure you and others on here have driven at 90+mph on the highways
> 
> that is dangerous, way more dangerous than handling some tarantula lol
> 
> speed kills, tarantulas dont


That's brilliant. I wasn't aware you were psychic and knew details about my driving habits. 

Stromatopelma calceatum is not 'some tarantula'

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## Poec54 (Aug 18, 2016)

Matabuey said:


> But anyway, I'm out.


 
You promised, and yet you're still posting on this thread.  You got our hopes up, and then...

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## Matabuey (Aug 18, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> You promised, and yet you're still posting on this thread.  You got our hopes up, and then...


Because you lot keep replying with ridiculous responses, spreading misinformation about species that you supposedly know a lot about. It must hurt having less information about venom's of tarantulas than someone who has only kept them for 6 months. 

What a witty response by the way, top marks, something i would expect from a 5 year old. Round of applause.

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## Najakeeper (Aug 18, 2016)

I don't know if this comes from keeping highly venomous snakes for so many years or the literature I have read, I think safety concerns with Tarantulas are overhyped in this forum. 

I have a genetics degree, life sciences are my primary interest and I know that any foreign protein can be lethal via various mechanisms but in general, I am not concerned with tarantula venom for healthy adult humans.

Sick people, allergic people, babies are of course a different matter and as a father to a 6 month old, I wouldn't want an adult specimen from this species roaming around in my house.

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## CindyMoon (Aug 18, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> You promised, and yet you're still posting on this thread.  You got our hopes up, and then...


I always dislike it when a person calls someone else out for not leaving when they said they were going to. What is it to you? Maybe there was something else of his interest. People normally don't claim to leave unless they at some point were going to, but they are also free to cancel that and continue the conversation any time they want without having to explain why.

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## CindyMoon (Aug 18, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> You promised, and yet you're still posting on this thread.  You got our hopes up, and then...


And so far he's the only one making any sense here.

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## jiacovazzi (Aug 18, 2016)

CindyMoon said:


> And so far he's the only one making any sense here.


Maybe to you. try having an open mind, and listening to experienced keepers.

Reactions: Agree 4 | Disagree 1


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## Poec54 (Aug 18, 2016)

CindyMoon said:


> I always dislike it when a person calls someone else out for not leaving when they said they were going to. What is it to you? Maybe there was something else of his interest. People normally don't claim to leave unless they at some point were going to, but they are also free to cancel that and continue the conversation any time they want without having to explain why.


 
You're free to dislike what you want, and I dislike it when someone doesn't do what they say they're going to do.  Not only isn't he listening to what we're saying, he's not listening to what_ he's_ saying.

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## Poec54 (Aug 18, 2016)

tnerd93 said:


> dude im pretty sure you and others on here have driven at 90+mph on the highways
> 
> that is dangerous, way more dangerous than handling some tarantula lol


 
The difference being that the vast majority of the time a person drives 90 on the freeway, nothing's going to happen.  The majority of time someone gets nailed by an adult Stromatopelma, something very painful and unpleasant *will* happen.  Not a good analogy.

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## Matabuey (Aug 18, 2016)

jiacovazzi said:


> Maybe to you. try having an open mind, and listening to experienced keepers.


It's got absolutely nothing to do with having an open mind or listening to experienced keepers.

These experienced keepers have so far had little substance to actually add to the debate, except "they have killed we just don't know it".

My last main comment is backed by science, unlike the tosh that these "experienced keepers" are spewing out.




Poec54 said:


> You're free to dislike what you want, and I dislike it when someone doesn't do what they say they're going to do.  Not only isn't he listening to what we're saying, he's not listening to what_ he's_ saying.


You haven't said anything of merit, at all. You're an experienced keeper, but know very little in terms of actual science. You're experienced in the keeping, not the actual toxicology side, that much is evident in your posts.

Unlike my posts which clearly state just how dangerous these animals are, with real data and accounts, written by people with far more knowledge than you or i.

I could also say "false water cobras have killed before, but no one has reported a death, so we must label them life threatening" - anyone with any sort of mental capacity, can see that's an absolute joke.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Poec54 (Aug 18, 2016)

Matabuey said:


> It must hurt having less information about venom's of tarantulas than someone who has only kept them for 6 months.


 
6 months in the hobby and you're an expert.  Boy, have we seen that before.

Reactions: Agree 3 | Disagree 2 | Funny 3


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## Matabuey (Aug 18, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> 6 months in the hobby and you're an expert.  Boy, have we seen that before.


Where did i say i was an expert? I'm just stating a clear fact, that i evidently know more about tarantula venoms than yourself.

I never said i know more about you with regards to the keeping of tarantulas.

And most certainly, hobbyists are no experts.

Reactions: Like 1


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## CindyMoon (Aug 18, 2016)

jiacovazzi said:


> Maybe to you. try having an open mind, and listening to experienced keepers.


I am and what makes you think he's not himself?


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## kooky (Aug 18, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> 6 months in the hobby and you're an expert.  Boy, have we seen that before.


not attempting to pick a fight, but i dont see anything wrong with him saying he knows a lot about venom after 6 months. Thats a very scientific areas that can be learnt faster than other area imo. At least he wasn't saying he was an expert on keeping t's or something. But again im also new so im probs wrong. im actually finding this thread really interesting.

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## CindyMoon (Aug 18, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> 6 months in the hobby and you're an expert.  Boy, have we seen that before.


So there's not a chance someone who already knows a lot signs up here? Or do you assume all newbies here know nothing about tarantulas and can't be "experts"?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## CindyMoon (Aug 18, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> The difference being that the vast majority of the time a person drives 90 on the freeway, nothing's going to happen.  The majority of time someone gets nailed by an adult Stromatopelma, something very painful and unpleasant *will* happen.  Not a good analogy.


What a weird answer. Even if the odds would be higher with the tarantula, the consequences would be drastically different. One could lead to death whereas the second one would at most lead to short hospitalization.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## tnerd93 (Aug 18, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> 6 months in the hobby and you're an expert.  Boy, have we seen that before.


lmao you are the supposed expert on here but have had next to nothing to add to this thread with any backing from scientific sources unlike this other guy

clearly you know about the keeping of tarantulas in captivity but not much else mate


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## kooky (Aug 18, 2016)

CindyMoon said:


> What a weird answer. Even if the odds would be higher with the tarantula, the consequences would be drastically different. One could lead to death whereas the second one would at most lead to short hospitalization.


Well technically, a crash at 90 on the motorway could lead to multiple deaths in one go, in a worst case scenario. But i suppose if this t got into an old folks home it might happen.


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## CindyMoon (Aug 18, 2016)

CindyMoon said:


> What a weird answer. Even if the odds would be higher with the tarantula, the consequences would be drastically different. One could lead to death whereas the second one would at most lead to short hospitalization.


And in traffic you are at risk injuring many others along the way, but with a tarantula, the only chances you are taking is with yourself.

Reactions: Disagree 2


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## CindyMoon (Aug 18, 2016)

kooky said:


> Well technically, a crash at 90 on the motorway could lead to multiple deaths in one go, in a worst case scenario. But i suppose if this t got into an old folks home it might happen.


Just noticed this after my last reply. Let's hope these t's stay away from kids and old folks.


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## kooky (Aug 18, 2016)

CindyMoon said:


> Just noticed this after my last reply. Let's hope these t's stay away from kids and old folks.


Well technically they should both stay away from a lot of things. Although ill be an old lady before i consider getting a t like this. Im not one for the defensive t's. Im all for pet rocks xD 
The fastest thing i own is a .5" a.versicolour that actually doesn't move much, so yup, im hoping itll stay a blue rock xd

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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 18, 2016)

tnerd93 said:


> clearly you know about the keeping of tarantulas in captivity but not much else mate


He had a Cobra collection in the past, man, he's used, like others here, to deal with venomous and the 'Hot' ones :-s

Reactions: Agree 1


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## CindyMoon (Aug 18, 2016)

kooky said:


> Well technically they should both stay away from a lot of things. Although ill be an old lady before i consider getting a t like this. Im not one for the defensive t's. Im all for pet rocks xD
> The fastest thing i own is a .5" a.versicolour that actually doesn't move much, so yup, im hoping itll stay a blue rock xd


Same here, cute little lazy t's, they're the best


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## kooky (Aug 18, 2016)

CindyMoon said:


> Same here, cute little lazy t's, they're the best


I have only had it for literally 48 hours so i hope it'll start making lovely webs soon. And that ya know, i dont kill it with crappy ventilation or something. xD -fingers crossed- for my little blue rock. its unbelievably beautiful even as a sling though.


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## tnerd93 (Aug 18, 2016)

Matabuey said:


> Right, so i still don't know why you find this so hard to grasp.
> 
> Phillip went to the area in which these spiders are endemic, and where they cause multiple bites per year. Just in his short trip, 9 people were bitten!
> 
> ...


this is the only comment in the thread which clearly outlines how dangerous these animals are and no one has been able to provide anything else convincing enough to say otherwise especially this poec guy

they'll ruin the rest of your week no doubt but thats about it really, some ts more than others



Chris LXXIX said:


> He had a Cobra collection in the past, man, he's used, like others here, to deal with venomous and the 'Hot' ones :-s


so? lol i just mean he doesnt know much about the scientific side as none of his responses included any science man just childish comments like a kid in a playground that cant come up with a proper defence of his pov

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## CindyMoon (Aug 18, 2016)

kooky said:


> I have only had it for literally 48 hours so i hope it'll start making lovely webs soon. And that ya know, i dont kill it with crappy ventilation or something. xD -fingers crossed- for my little blue rock. its unbelievably beautiful even as a sling though.


I understand your excitement and congrats on your new little friend, hope all goes well with him! I can't wait to get a web spinning spider, I have a G.Porteri and they don't really spin, they just lay it on the ground like a mat, to collect insects. Have you posted a picture of yours?


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## Poec54 (Aug 18, 2016)

CindyMoon said:


> What a weird answer. Even if the odds would be higher with the tarantula, the consequences would be drastically different. One could lead to death whereas the second one would at most lead to short hospitalization.


 
Human nature.  People are more likely to risk doing something that has a very low probably of injury, than something that has a high probability of injury.

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## kooky (Aug 18, 2016)

CindyMoon said:


> I understand your excitement and congrats on your new little friend, hope all goes well with him! I can't wait to get a web spinning spider, I have a G.Porteri and they don't really spin, they just lay it on the ground like a mat, to collect insects. Have you posted a picture of yours?


Yeah i think the avic's are some of the only arboreal im going to get. Which is fine because they are plenty beautiful for me. But ill see how it goes with this one first. I haven't posted a picture yet, maybe i will tonight.


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## CindyMoon (Aug 18, 2016)

kooky said:


> Yeah i think the avic's are some of the only arboreal im going to get. Which is fine because they are plenty beautiful for me. But ill see how it goes with this one first. I haven't posted a picture yet, maybe i will tonight.


I hope so  (no pressure lol)


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## kooky (Aug 18, 2016)

CindyMoon said:


> I hope so  (no pressure lol)


Yeah im stressing so much about it. I'm constantly thinking, is is ventilated enough -sniffs substrate- ok it doesn't smell stagnant...but what if its too dry.  maybe the water dish isn't humid enough! Its so hard to just sit and resist messing with it all the time as ik that'll just stress the little one out. I think when i've seen it eat ill be much more relaxed.


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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 18, 2016)

I have reasons to believe that here someone fail to realize a logic thing. I'm not here for state that _S.calceatum_, or 'Pokies', or other OW's powerful venom _Theraphosidae _with a bite are able to kill someone. Rest assured, I know well, like everyone else, that no one ever died for that 

Reading the bite reports available here, or the ones posted on other sites about those pretty potent venom spiders, everyone will notice that those 'bites' have in common a lot: bites in the finger, or hand, and the bitten folks were adult people. And I suppose, in general, quite healthy.

Unbearable pain, E.R, so forth and no one died. I know this 

What I don't know (and trust me, not even others know, no matter the chit chats) is what a bite of those are able to do in very delicate parts, like, again, the neck, head area or else, to not a six months baby but to a six years children, or an elder one. And talking about a (hypothetical) children and an elder both with a good health shape condition.

While I have nothing 'medical/scientific' for back my words, still on the other hand, no one can prove I'm wrong. At the same time, we can't leave out little childrens and elders out of this issue (how many people decide to buy powerful venom OW's living with those?) nor pretend that those, maybe weird, bizarre, remote or else scenario/s couldn't happens (I have saw people literally 'headling', not handling, 'headling' OW's).

Ask Poec54 how much those arboreals are skilled in performing T-Shirts races. Arriving at the neck or head isn't hard for those. They aren't pet rocks 'Grammos' :-s

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## Matabuey (Aug 18, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> I have reasons to believe that here someone fail to realize a logic thing. I'm not here for state that _S.calceatum_, or 'Pokies', or other OW's powerful venom _Theraphosidae _with a bite are able to kill someone. Rest assured, I know well, like everyone else, that no one ever died for that
> 
> Reading the bite reports available here, or the ones posted on other sites about those pretty potent venom spiders, everyone will notice that those 'bites' have in common a lot: bites in the finger, or hand, and the bitten folks were adult people. And I suppose, in general, quite healthy.
> 
> ...


I don't know if you bothered to read what I posted a while ago, there has already been a bite to the neck from an S.cal.

Animals deserve the title "life threatening" when they're capable of killing you regardless of the situation.

_Crotalus atrox_ is not deemed a life threatening snake because toxicologists sat there saying, "hmmm, if it bites someone who is 90 years old and has cancer, or bites a child that is malnourished they might die, or if they only bite them in a specific location on the neck they'll die". It's whether a bite on a healthy human can pose a serious risk to their life, regardless of bite location and other factors.

I have a friend who was bitten by a 2 month old _C.atrox_ and needed 30 vials of antivenom - That animal is deserving of the title life threatening.

No tarantula deserve that "title". Spiders such as _Atrax robustus _do_. _

There are plenty of animals that can kill an elderly person or a child given the right circumstances, but they're *not* labelled life threatening. Because for the most part, they're not. I'm pretty sure if my mothers, Mum, was bitten by a False water cobra, she would die within the hour.

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## TownesVanZandt (Aug 18, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> I have reasons to believe that here someone fail to realize a logic thing. I'm not here for state that _S.calceatum_, or 'Pokies', or other OW's powerful venom _Theraphosidae _with a bite are able to kill someone. Rest assured, I know well, like everyone else, that no one ever died for that
> 
> Reading the bite reports available here, or the ones posted on other sites about those pretty potent venom spiders, everyone will notice that those 'bites' have in common a lot: bites in the finger, or hand, and the bitten folks were adult people. And I suppose, in general, quite healthy.
> 
> ...


I found this article in another thread, and it is an interesting read for those who haven´t read it already: http://qjmed.oxfordjournals.org/content/102/12/851 This article states: "The severe muscle spasms seen in two of our patients were a challenge to medical treatment and might, under some circumstances, have been life threatening. They demand a toxinological explanation."

I also don´t believe that a bite from a tarantula can kill a healthy adult. The results can be quite nasty, nonetheless. A few years back a Norwegian newspaper interviewed a guy who had been bitten by a Pokie. He spent 4 days in hospital, being partly paralysed and had problems with his kidneys for a year after. The article is in Norwegian, so it won´t make much sense to most of you, but here it is: http://www.dagbladet.no/2010/03/14/nyheter/innenriks/ulykke/10833576/

Most of the bite reports are, as you said, from people being bitten in the fingers. A bite in the neck, could be much worse, we don´t know and we don´t have enough data. I´m fairly certain though, that if I were to go over to my 19 enclosures with African Baboons in them, and poke my fingers into their burrows, allowing them to bite me, one after the other, I would die

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## Matabuey (Aug 18, 2016)

TownesVanZandt said:


> I found this article in another thread, and it is an interesting read for those who haven´t read it already: http://qjmed.oxfordjournals.org/content/102/12/851 This article states: "The severe muscle spasms seen in two of our patients were a challenge to medical treatment and might, under some circumstances, have been life threatening. They demand a toxinological explanation."
> 
> I also don´t believe that a bite from a tarantula can kill a healthy adult. The results can be quite nasty, nonetheless. A few years back a Norwegian newspaper interviewed a guy who had been bitten by a Pokie. He spent 4 days in hospital, being partly paralysed and had problems with his kidneys for a year after. The article is in Norwegian, so it won´t make much sense to most of you, but here it is: http://www.dagbladet.no/2010/03/14/nyheter/innenriks/ulykke/10833576/
> 
> Most of the bite reports are, as you said, from people being bitten in the fingers. A bite in the neck, could be much worse, we don´t know and we don´t have enough data. I´m fairly certain though, that if I were to go over to my 19 enclosures with African Baboons in them, and poke my fingers into their burrows, allowing them to bite me, one after the other, I would die


If you can find an actual bite report on the Norwegian one that would be nice. So i can read it.

Most of the time the "paralysis" is not actually paralysis, it is just severe spasm of the muscle. It is not destruction of parts of the nervous system whereby they're not able to relay electrical impulses - true paralysis, like some snakes (and other animals) can cause.

I see that article is from a news story, so I'm not surprised they use the word paralysed.

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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 18, 2016)

Again, I haven't said that. I've said that we don't know, which is different. I wasn't talking about a 'fatality' scenario necessarily but about some sort of damage, maybe a life or a particular long-lasting one, due to a bite from a very powerful OW near those body parts.

I simply, considering that kind of venom, can't exclude something like that.

If someone here is 100% able to prove I'm wrong, much power to you, then, lol.

Btw I remember that Storm76, a trust worth user here, posted a bite report happened in the neck of a Sierra Leone (if I'm not wrong) soldier and a Belgium Doc, present, literally saved his life.

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## TownesVanZandt (Aug 18, 2016)

Matabuey said:


> If you can find an actual bite report on the Norwegian one that would be nice. So i can read it.
> 
> Most of the time the "paralysis" is not actually paralysis, it is just severe spasm of the muscle. It is not destruction of parts of the nervous system whereby they're not able to relay electrical impulses - true paralysis, like some snakes (and other animals) can cause.
> 
> I see that article is from a news story, so I'm not surprised they use the word paralysed.


Unfortunately I don´t have a bite report, just this interview with a newspaper that were good some 20 years ago, but turned tabloid. I would be interested to know what kind of kidney troubles he had for a year after the bite. The article doesn´t state that either.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Matabuey (Aug 18, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> Again, I haven't said that. I've said that we don't know, which is different. I wasn't talking about a 'fatality' scenario necessarily but about some sort of damage, maybe a life or a particular long-lasting one, due to a bite from a very powerful OW near those body parts.
> 
> I simply, considering that kind of venom, can't exclude something like that.
> 
> If someone here is 100% able to prove I'm wrong, much power to you, then, lol.


You also can't prove me wrong that a _Boiga dendrophila_ or _Hydrodynastes gigas, _could kill in acute circumstances, or a Crocodile monitor, or a Forest scorpion. So lets start calling those life threatening too, shall we? No.

You sound like one of those crazy religious folk, that believe God exists purely because you can't prove otherwise. You can't disprove that i created the universe, so bow down to me please.

Besides - life long damage etc, is not death. Which is what we're talking about.

I have said before, they deserve respect for what they can do. Supported by everything i have clearly written out before. This discussion was never about whether they can cause some sort of lasting implication, it was about whether they can kill.

And no, the one Storm may have posted is Chinese whispers of the same bite I outlined in Phillips account.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Poec54 (Aug 18, 2016)

Matabuey said:


> You sound like one of those crazy religious folk, that believe God exists purely because you can't prove otherwise.


 
Religion is a prohibited topic on this forum.  You need to find a better analogy.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Matabuey (Aug 18, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> Religion is a prohibited topic on this forum.  You need to find a better analogy.


Not entirely sure why you keeping coming back to add pointless comments, when you've had nothing of any significance to add during this whole discussion.

If I've broken one of the rules, a moderator can message me and inform me. 

Didn't realise you were the on duty policeman.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## EulersK (Aug 18, 2016)

We need a "beating a dead horse" emoticon on this forum.

Reactions: Agree 8


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## TownesVanZandt (Aug 18, 2016)

EulersK said:


> We need a "beating a dead horse" emoticon on this forum.


Still, that´s better than beating a live one, no?

Reactions: Funny 3


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## EulersK (Aug 18, 2016)

TownesVanZandt said:


> Still, that´s better than beating a live one, no?


I'm all about beating a live one - I was part of the conversation for about 5 pages. I made my points, the other side made their points, and that was it. There was even a user who commented that due to the conversation, they would no longer be getting an S. calceatum. That's all I really care about. That post made me realize that the points had been made on both sides, and continuing to talk about it would be worthless. I respect and understand the opposing views, and I believe that they do the same for my side. Agree to disagree, as has been brought up.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3 | Funny 1


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## tnerd93 (Aug 18, 2016)

EulersK said:


> I'm all about beating a live one - I was part of the conversation for about 5 pages. I made my points, the other side made their points, and that was it. There was even a user who commented that due to the conversation, they would no longer be getting an S. calceatum. That's all I really care about. That post made me realize that the points had been made on both sides, and continuing to talk about it would be worthless. I respect and understand the opposing views, and I believe that they do the same for my side. Agree to disagree, as has been brought up.


not really agree to disagree is it though lol you're wrong, ignorance is bliss

you have no evidence to suggest it would be able to kill

the other guys have all presented accounts by scientists and reports that show it would be next to impossible for a s cal to kill or any old world

you dont call something that has a near 0 % chance of killing someone a potentially life threatening spider, you can get an infection from snakes biting you and die in rare circumstances, dayum i better go put life threatening sticker on my ball pythons cage and make sure every ball python keeper knows about this lmao

in that case start telling people a rosea is life threatening as im sure that could finish off an old lady

NEWSFLASH ball pythons have killed before just no one has ever spoke about it in the poor areas of africa, life threatening animal beware


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## EulersK (Aug 18, 2016)

tnerd93 said:


> not really agree to disagree is it though lol you're wrong, ignorance is bliss
> 
> you have no evidence to suggest it would be able to kill
> 
> ...


If you read the whole thread and articles listed, you'll see that we intentionally did not bring up allergic reactions or infections. And your last statement shows me that you know nothing about tarantulas, so we're done here. I'm interested in talking to people with a valid, educated opinion such as @Matabuey, not the likes of you.

I won't be back to reply to whatever nonsense you have to say, but don't forget to hit the dislike on this post

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 2 | Love 1


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## TownesVanZandt (Aug 18, 2016)

EulersK said:


> I'm all about beating a live one


I feel pity for those poor horses in the Mojave Desert. You´re clearly a monster

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 3


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## Toxoderidae (Aug 18, 2016)

I will be honest, if I was bitten on the neck or some other vital spot I would likely die due to my smaller size of ~115lbs and such. Not willing to test though.


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## Poec54 (Aug 18, 2016)

Matabuey said:


> you've had nothing of any significance to add during this whole discussion.



Just following your lead.

Reactions: Disagree 1 | Lollipop 1


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## Matabuey (Aug 18, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> Just following your lead.


How old are you?

I've never met an adult in my life, that resorts to such remarks. You literally conduct a discussion like a child, it's quite amusing.

This is literally what a 12 year old would say.

Clearly I've had plenty to say of substance as I've had several people send me messages, thanking me for presenting my opinion with actual facts to back it up.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Poec54 (Aug 18, 2016)

Matabuey said:


> How old are you?
> 
> I've never met an adult in my life, that resorts to such remarks. You literally conduct a discussion like a child, it's quite amusing.
> 
> ...



Free personality profile!  This is what keeps people coming back here.

Reactions: Disagree 1 | Funny 3


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## cold blood (Aug 19, 2016)

Matabuey said:


> I don't know if you bothered to read what I posted a while ago, there has already been a bite to the neck from an S.cal.
> 
> Animals deserve the title "life threatening" when they're capable of killing you regardless of the situation.


I gotta first say, *thanks* for posting this long bit of info, I found it to be very interesting, as I am sure most did....However, in that article it actually did say that the bite to the beck was considered to be "life threatening" without immediate medical attention.



Matabuey said:


> the Stromatopelma landed on the side of his face, darted forward and game him a nasty bite in the middle of the neck. The spider was captured by my niece while the Aspivenin pump was brought out. If Michael ran no risks from an arm bite, as bad as it might have been... *I am sure that, without the immediate* *intervention* of a primed and ready venom extraction kit, *this* *young* *fellow* *might* *well* *have* *died*. His throat was swollen and the pain radiated to his face, optical nerves, chest with heart contractions starting less than two hours after the bite, with the pain spreading downwards to his gonads..... a most horrible place to feel that kind of pain.
> 
> Although I would consider death as almost impossible, bites in certain areas of the body (like the described neck-bite) or in persons with a faulty heart could be extremely dangerous. Stromatopelma is the link between the relatively harmless mass of Theraphosids, and the few species that can be life-threatening to man.


As you can see, the bite in the neck, was in fact, considered to be life threatening.   And while he made mention that people with heart conditions are likely the ones at greatest risk, this man who's bite he considered life threatening was, by all indications, a perfectly healthy adult....life threatening, _simply_ because of the location of the bite.

This very last line: "Stromatopelma is the link between the relatively harmless mass of Theraposids, and the few species that *can* *be* *life* *threatening* to man".   He obviously considers the species to be different from most other Theraposids when it comes to bites.


I do hear what you're saying though, that under almost every circumstance, no t is life threatening (not even S.cal), I can't and won't ever argue with that, and like you, I consider them dangerous, but not what I would _personally_ characterize as deadly (but others certainly might, and their viewpoint isn't necessarily wrong, just slightly different)....but this possibility...raised in your posted article, does demonstrate that they certainly do have the capabilities, and I think this is all a lot of people are saying, that it is possible....because these things are like greased lightning, and having one end up n a face or neck is a very real possibility should the critter briefly escape.

Its just a difference in point of view I think, many see the possibility as enough to call them life threatening, others, like you, do not see it that way as special conditions need to be met...I actually see where both sides are coming from and an kinda surprised that the argument has escalated like it did.

Thanks again for the info you posted

Reactions: Like 7 | Agree 2 | Informative 1 | Love 2


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## Matabuey (Aug 19, 2016)

cold blood said:


> I gotta first say, *thanks* for posting this long bit of info, I found it to be very interesting, as I am sure most did....However, in that article it actually did say that the bite to the beck was considered to be "life threatening" without immediate medical attention.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hey

Very few, yourself, Eulersk, Townesvanzandt, maybe one or two more i can't remember, have actually tried to contribute to a healthy discussion - so thanks for that .

I do agree with you for the most part. Except the part where Phillip talks about the venom extraction kit *helping* and possibly preventing a death - it's a load of rubbish.

It's well documented by Doctors/Toxicologists who specialise in venomous bites over the last decade, that they're awful and can actually do more harm than good.

I'm not sure if you're familiar with Dr. Sean Bush, he one of the world leading experts when it comes to envenomations in a clinical sense. When doctors around the world have no clue how to treat an envenomation, he is the guy they call.

Here is a short document written by him (yes it relates to snakebite suction devices, but it's the same tool - as people rarely bothered to use it on tarantula envenomations. Where it was common practice with venomous snakes) :

http://www.doctorross.co.za/wp-cont...-suction-devices-suck-emerg-med-clin-n-am.pdf

And no worries, that's what discussions are for, not for throwing snide remarks or petty jibes, it's supposed to be an environment where people can learn and share opinions - after all we are supposed to be adults.

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