# Arboreal enclosure



## MorganRose (Jul 3, 2016)

Do you think these would be alright for a h.maculata or a s.calceatum?
30 cm high and 30cm width.
I haven't finished them yet.


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## Poec54 (Jul 3, 2016)

If you don't know about cage sizes, should you really be getting a Stromatopelma? They're an advanced species.  How many adult OW's have you worked with?

Reactions: Like 3 | Dislike 2


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## mistertim (Jul 3, 2016)

You haven't given much info. What size are the tarantulas you're planning on getting? Also, judging by the far right enclosure that is some seriously big mesh you have on those vents. Those would just be asking to get a leg stuck and get the spider injured.

And Poec54 had a good point too...what genus/species do you currently keep?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Venom1080 (Jul 3, 2016)

i wouldnt unless you had tongs over 12", you do not want your hand in that cage. also, a 11.8x11.8" is a little small for a adult h mac and S cal, id try to get a larger cage so they dont just straight jack in the box out when you open the top. so overall, no.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Informative 1


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## bryverine (Jul 3, 2016)

If you're ready for that speed and that kind of aggressively defensive tarantula, they look like decent sized enclosures (though a larger house may be necessary eventually).

The main problem I see is maintenance and feeding with those lids. Getting in seems like it would be difficult.

What material ate they made of?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## TownesVanZandt (Jul 3, 2016)

Man, I would not use something like this for these species. When arboreals get spooked, they run upwards and with an enclosure like this, it will be situated at your hand in no time! That´s not where you want a _H.maculata_ or a _S.calceatum! _

Reactions: Dislike 1 | Agree 3


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## MorganRose (Jul 3, 2016)

Points taken I will not use them.
I've got many old world species, I was simply asking for  your opinions.


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## bryverine (Jul 3, 2016)

MorganRose said:


> Points taken I will not use them.
> I've got many old world species, I was simply asking for  your opinions.


They're still faster and more potent than what I saw listed on your profile. Not saying you can't handle that, just trying to help.

Reactions: Dislike 1 | Agree 1


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## MorganRose (Jul 3, 2016)

I appreciate that 
Advice is always appreciated, thank you.


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## Vanessa (Jul 3, 2016)

I'm really disliking my top opening enclosures for my two avicularia and they are very cooperative overall. I crack open the lid and gently move them downwards using a soft brush and they have never given me a problem. Still, the whole situation is very awkward and makes me uncomfortable. I don't even want to imagine what that same situation would be like with a more defensive and fast species.
I really need to get some front opening enclosures. I really think they are much easier to maintain for arboreals.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## cold blood (Jul 3, 2016)

If you cannot drill the enclosures for proper ventilation, don't use them for arboreals.  Mesh ventilation is awful, you couldn't pay me to use that kind of venting.

I have basically the same enclosure, got it thinking it would be good...it now holds all my unused plastic plants.

Reactions: Like 5 | Funny 2 | Love 1


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## Mauri (Jul 3, 2016)

I dont have any problems with what you are doing here at all OP. Am not sure why some people are trying to scare you here.

Just rem to leave a good distance from the cork to the top. In fact I would use circular cork bark for those species you mention and give around 3 inches subs or so...

And some fake plants wouldnt go amiss.

But please update us with the finished project and am guessing this is for a juve? 30cm for an adult sound a wee bit on the small side.

p.s and dont use mesh. Get a solder iron or do the holes by hand. X venti and I do some in the lid also.

I really really cant see why in principle you cant use those enclosures. It amazes me people on this forum can be so negative.

Just. STOP.

http://www.thespidershop.co.uk/cork-bark-tubes-p-514.html#.V3mCfzVTBaQ

get some of this and perhaps cut them to size and you are pretty much good to go.

The species you mention will use a hide so am not sure where all this "tarantulas running up your arm comes from".

Sounds like bad husbandry or poor enclosures.

Am about to get an H.Mac and P.Cambridgei myself. Might do a video tutorial to explain the setups.

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 3 | Disagree 3


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## Poec54 (Jul 3, 2016)

Mauri said:


> - I dont have any problems with what you are doing here at all OP. Am not sure why some people are trying to scare you here.
> 
> - The species you mention will use a hide so am not sure where all this "tarantulas running up your arm comes from".



- You've only had spiders a few months, and aren't really in a position to give advice on Stromatopelma.  The OP is best advised to do more research on them to learn what they're capable of. 

- Those 'Running up your arm/tongs' stories are from people it's happened to.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 6


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## Chris LXXIX (Jul 3, 2016)

Stick to the old, good, classic cheap European made arboreal glass enclosures we have. I always used those for arboreals, like everyone else in Europe, save for Exo Terra maniacs or Acrylic fanatics.

You can buy one for 20/25 Euro. They work pretty well.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Chris LXXIX (Jul 3, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> They're an advanced species.  How many adult OW's have you worked with?


According to his profile info, he already owns OW's _Theraphosidae_.


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## Chris LXXIX (Jul 3, 2016)

Do a favor to yourself and buy one of those, man:

http://www.ebay.it/itm/Glas-Terrari...048193?hash=item488a3f4781:g:j40AAOSwB4NW1Fz6

Aren't the best, of course, for house 'Avics' or other Asian _Theraphosidae _like _L.violaceopes_, but for a _H.maculata_ or _S.calceatum_ those work pretty well.

There's bigger size as well, of course.


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## Mauri (Jul 3, 2016)

Erm seriously am I blind or what is really wrong with the ones is he doing? I dont get it...if it's to house a juve and he put in a nice bit of circular cork bark...

n ventilation...

but if he has done the mesh already i'd probably abort. Unless it's plastic.

Reactions: Like 1 | Lollipop 1


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## Chris LXXIX (Jul 3, 2016)

Mauri said:


> Erm seriously am I blind or what is really wrong with the ones is he doing? I dont get it...if it's to house a juve and he put in a nice bit of circular cork bark...
> 
> n ventilation...
> 
> but if he has done the mesh already i'd probably abort. Unless it's plastic.


For me? I wouldn't use one of those. *I need *to take out the water dish for cleaning, since I love to use only glass water dish and not disposable plastic stuff.* I need*, with tongs, to remove prey remains. I don't like the idea to perform those things removing the top when, inside, there's fast as light high strung arboreals. Aren't 'Avics'.

I prefer a 'guillottine' opening, like this:

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mauri (Jul 3, 2016)

TownesVanZandt said:


> Ah, come on, Mauri! An opening on the top of an enclosure shaped like this is not exactly practical for doing cage maintenance. Arboreals tend to run upwards when spooked and this is not something you normally want with OW arboreals.


Sorry I think you are assuming things here. It's the size of the T and how he builds it.

If the T is in a hide and he is carefull I dont see this being any more dangerous than one opening from the front.

Personally I would go for a front opening design for an adult when possible but then I made one myself for my P.Irminia (it wasnt cheap). I am going to use top opening enclosures for my slings/juvenile arboreals.

And maintenance for an arboreal? Have done very minor maintenance so it's no big deal...I use Isopods and refill the water dish and water my pothos plant every so often.

In fact as well all know this type of T can spend long periods in it's hide and we wont see it.

So for it to run up arm you must have a pretty poorly designed enclosure or doing something you shouldnt.

I.e they can be fed when they are in their hide when you know they should be fed. Zero problems. (in theory).

I agree that yes front opening better for adults. But he mentions 30cms in his first post..

Which isnt adult is it not????

So lets wait for the OP to give us info before writing him off no?

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1


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## bryverine (Jul 3, 2016)

Mauri said:


> Sorry I think you are assuming things here. It's the size of the T and how he builds it.
> 
> If the T is in a hide and he is carefull I dont see this being any more dangerous than one opening from the front.
> 
> ...


I do regular maintenance for my arboreal tarantulas. My H. mac, regalis, and irminia all love to put roaches in their water dish and will often leave a nice build up of poo on them. So unless you use biodegradable water dishes that never need to be removed, have a lid specially sized for the water dish removal, or reflexes faster than any human being alive, any lid can be an issue. 

Truth is, I have seen my arboreals move vertically more often than horizontally (my regalis just moves 'crazy') so I prefer a side door.

Also, I would not suggest treating a calceatum or maculata like an irminia, they are worlds apart.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Sana (Jul 4, 2016)

I have encountered issues with both front and top opening enclosures.  Anything can cause you a problem eventually depending on how you work with it and the individual that lives in it.  I'm using a lot of clear tupperware type enclosures for my arboreals right now.  The kind where the lid is a little bit flexible so that I can crack open only a corner or a side at a time if my OW arboreals are feeling crabby.  I like having the option to work in any spot that I want within the enclosure without having to completely open a door.  The ones that @Chris LXXIX was talking about seem like a good idea as well.  I may try something like that with my next adult OW enclosure.  I'm currently looking at the pros and cons of an adult enclosure for my H. mac and that suggestion has some serious merit.  Accidents can easily happen and I have experienced the joys of a panicked OW arboreal firsthand.  Regular maintenance can easily spook a tarantula.  Generally mine head for their hides when something scares them but I have experienced them running out of the enclosure on rare occasions.  Chasing an OW around the house wasn't a lot of fun, especially since I have other pets and children in the house to think about as well.  @Poec54 mentioned a while back that it has been his experience that the more round the enclosure that easier it is for a tarantula to reach maximum launch fro enclosure velocity in the least time.  I've noticed that to be true so I'm opting for more square enclosures these days.

Reactions: Like 4


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## MorganRose (Jul 4, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> Do a favor to yourself and buy one of those, man:
> 
> http://www.ebay.it/itm/Glas-Terrari...048193?hash=item488a3f4781:g:j40AAOSwB4NW1Fz6
> 
> ...


Yeah I've found a supplier of glass vivs, thanks Chris
 I just found these laying around and I just thought I'd see if I could use them.
I will probably use them for amphibians or something.

Thanks for the input everybody.

Reactions: Like 2


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## MorganRose (Jul 4, 2016)

I would of used them for juveniles just to inform everyone.
I'll stick to the glass vivs/exo terra.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Poec54 (Jul 4, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> According to his profile info, he already owns OW's _Theraphosidae_.



We've run into this before where it turned out they were all slings.  That's why I asked about experience with adult OW's.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## MorganRose (Jul 4, 2016)

I've got 10 adult old world species.
I've been in the hobby for 15 years. 
Not that it's any of your business.
That's the problem with this forum people are very cynical and make uneducated presumptions on behalf of other person.
All I wanted/expected was your opinions not to get bombarded with questions about my capability in regards to my experience.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Chris LXXIX (Jul 4, 2016)

MorganRose said:


> I've got 10 adult old world species.
> I've been in the hobby for 15 years.
> Not that it's any of your business.
> That's the problem with this forum people are very cynical and make uneducated presumptions on behalf of other person.
> All I wanted/expected was your opinions not to get bombarded with questions about my capability in regards to my experience.


I know that. I've seen your pics time ago and your profile info 

Now please beat Portugal, I don't like the idea of C.Ronaldo reaching the final :-s

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Chris LXXIX (Jul 4, 2016)

MorganRose said:


> Yeah I've found a supplier of glass vivs, thanks Chris


Nothing man ;-)

Reactions: Like 2


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## Poec54 (Jul 4, 2016)

MorganRose said:


> I've got 10 adult old world species.
> I've been in the hobby for 15 years.
> Not that it's any of your business.
> That's the problem with this forum people are very cynical and make uneducated presumptions on behalf of other person.
> All I wanted/expected was your opinions not to get bombarded with questions about my capability in regards to my experience.



If someone here is asking for advice, their experience/skill level certainly is relevant.

Reactions: Agree 6


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## bryverine (Jul 4, 2016)

MorganRose said:


> I've got 10 adult old world species.
> I've been in the hobby for 15 years.
> Not that it's any of your business.


I've personally seen many people ask questions like this that "have owned many OW" only to find out they got them all within the last month of the post and they are all slings to boot. 

Unfortunately, I don't assume people are automatically very experienced just because they say they have OW tarantulas. It's certainly not personal and I don't think you should take it as such. 

In fact, if you have any experience with OW tarantulas you should expect scrutiny and you should give it to those interested in OW tarantulas. 

How would you feel if you had the opportunity to prevent someone from being hurt by an OW, but you didn't want to step on their toes or insult them? 

What if a calceatum got out and bit a child? Forget consequences to hobby as a whole, forget the life of the tarantula, I would hope you personally felt some amount of responsibility for scarring that kid for life because you were worried it 'wasn't your business' to check if their parent/sibling were ready. 

I'm glad people scrutinized me when I impulse bought a maculata when I first started.

I think that if it hurt 100 peoples' 'feel goods' to question them about OW experience only to help a single person, it's worth it.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Wasabiroot (Jul 4, 2016)

Alright - he won't say it, so I will.  
Rick (Poec54) has been in the hobby longer than most of us have been alive. He was around when the hobby was barely in its nascent stages, and he's cared for literally hundreds to thousands of tarantulas. He knows what he's talking about. This is a guy who at one point had *several* cobras, so if he's cautioning you, it's probably for a good reason - the continuation of the hobby, your well being, and the spider's well-being. We need to stop equating education and probing questions with personal attacks. We all have different styles of teaching and I understand that the old school tough love approach can come across the wrong way, but we need to try to *assume positive intent* more here or the boards will become too toxic. 
That said, I think the general jist of the advice is: 
- top opening is more hazardous
- the vents are potentially a hazard for claws
- enclosure is in principle the right shape but is a bit small for an adult 
Not trying to step on anyone's toes - I just don't like seeing us all argue. We're hobbyists first and foremost, so let's open our minds to others.

Reactions: Like 5 | Agree 2 | Love 1


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## Chris LXXIX (Jul 4, 2016)

MorganRose actually asked only an advice/our opinion about his sort of custom, arboreal enclosure idea, people. IMO there's no need for that. I assume he knows well how badass a _S.calceatum_ is.

Reactions: Agree 4


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## Andrea82 (Jul 4, 2016)

This whole convo could have been so much shorter...
MorganRose: these enclosures ok for these species?
Poec: you have experience with OW? Nah man, enclosute sucks
MorganRose: sure have, for 15 years with these species. Thanx man, enclosures suck, got it. 
Poec: no problem, have a nice day  
MorganRose: you too.
The end. 
Simple. No need for bickering.

Reactions: Like 2 | Award 2


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## Mauri (Jul 4, 2016)

If it were me boyo I would go for a avic, p cambridgei and a H mac slings. Will send u my tutorial vid...

(my slings should arrive weds).

And my 2nd avic sp amazonica just moulted on a more happy note.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Toxoderidae (Jul 4, 2016)

Mauri said:


> If it were me boyo I would go for a avic, p cambridgei and a H mac slings. Will send u my tutorial vid...
> 
> (my slings should arrive weds).
> 
> And my 2nd avic sp amazonica just moulted on a more happy note.


Please stop. You've been keeping far too little time to have ANY experience worth making tutorial videos for.

Reactions: Agree 6


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## viper69 (Jul 4, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> For me? I wouldn't use one of those. *I need *to take out the water dish for cleaning, since I love to use only glass water dish and not disposable plastic stuff.* I need*, with tongs, to remove prey remains. I don't like the idea to perform those things removing the top when, inside, there's fast as light high strung arboreals. Aren't 'Avics'.
> 
> I prefer a 'guillottine' opening, like this:
> 
> ...



@Chris LXXIX How come you like the "French" opening hehe ? And how do you hold it open if you require both hands? Seems awfully awkward?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## viper69 (Jul 4, 2016)

bryverine said:


> Also, I would not suggest treating a calceatum or maculata like an irminia, they are worlds apart.


Having owned H. mac and irminia, I couldnt agree more.


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## viper69 (Jul 4, 2016)

Wasabiroot said:


> We need to stop equating education and probing questions with personal attacks.


I couldn't agree more.


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## viper69 (Jul 4, 2016)

bryverine said:


> I've personally seen many people ask questions like this that "have owned many OW" only to find out they got them all within the last month of the post and they are all slings to boot.


I can't remember which forum member it was, but the person had basically collected about 10 SLINGS in about a 1-3 months, and they were contemplating getting an OW because they felt they had all this "experience".

Sort of like a 16 yr old w/a new driver's license ready to be a top fuel drag racer after a few months!

Reactions: Like 4 | Funny 1 | Lollipop 1


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## Toxoderidae (Jul 4, 2016)

Mauri said:


> Go away child.
> 
> FYI I can do whatever I want and literally no-one cares about your opinion. Well I certainly dont. Your words are meaningless and pathetic, you're just embarassing yourself.
> 
> We dont make the vids for irritating kids. NEWSFLASH. (and the beauty is we just ban them. It's wonderfull).


Wait wait wait, you're saying I, a helpful member of the boards. _*I, someone who doesn't start flames wars, and I, someone who doesn't go around insulting people and spreading misinformation should be banned?*_ I think you may be insane. My opinion is actually greatly valued, and unlike you, I don't go around insulting people, and I don't post if its a subject which I don't know much about. Open up a book for once.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 1


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## Chris LXXIX (Jul 4, 2016)

viper69 said:


> @Chris LXXIX How come you like the "French" opening hehe ? And how do you hold it open if you require both hands? Seems awfully awkward?


Ah ah... you are right about the French part, they pillaged us very bad in the past  I don't know why I keep saying 'guillottine' but since I'm 'tard when it comes to a full knowledge of English words & proper terms to use, saying 'Up/Down' will sooner or later label me as a 'Macho Sexists' or what else in those bizarre times :-s

About how those works, I have to tell you, I have no problems. With the right hand I push up gently the opening, with the left, tongs in hands, I remove the water dish (that I put to the side, near the opening) for cleaning, or prey remains (always when the spider is hiding, of course)

Reactions: Informative 1


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## viper69 (Jul 4, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> Ah ah... you are right about the French part, they pillaged us very bad in the past  I don't know why I keep saying 'guillottine' but since I'm 'tard when it comes to a full knowledge of English words & proper terms to use, saying 'Up/Down' will sooner or later label me as a 'Macho Sexists' or what else in those bizarre times :-s
> 
> About how those works, I have to tell you, I have no problems. With the right hand I push up gently the opening, with the left, tongs in hands, I remove the water dish (that I put to the side, near the opening) for cleaning, or prey remains (always when the spider is hiding, of course)


As I thought, all 1 handed, aren't you the Doctor of Dexterity! The Papa would be proud!

Reactions: Like 1


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## MorganRose (Jul 4, 2016)

At the end of the day there are correct ways to inform people without seeming like egotistical cave men beating there chests because they have the knowlodge and experience.

I appreciate where your all coming from, and i completely understand that, its just i disagree with the way that some people share that information with others. 

It's nice to be nice and it's even better to educate people in a friendly informative fashion.  

It's really not hard.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


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## Poec54 (Jul 4, 2016)

MorganRose said:


> At the end of the day there are correct ways to inform people without seeming like *egotistical cave men beating there chests* because they have the knowlodge and experience.



All this over an inquiry about your experience.  Whew.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## MorganRose (Jul 5, 2016)

Still there's lessons to be learnt here.

Reactions: Like 1 | Clarification Please 1


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## Venom1080 (Jul 5, 2016)

MorganRose said:


> It's nice to be nice and it's even better to educate people in a friendly informative fashion.
> 
> It's really not hard.


i agree with this. people are a lot more likely to take advice if its given politely. BUT, i saw no one bash you in this thread. some people said Heteroscodra and Stromatopelma are very advanced and asked about your experience level, thats not rude, its only to help.

Reactions: Agree 4


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## mistertim (Jul 5, 2016)

MorganRose said:


> Still there's lessons to be learnt here.


Like how to accept constructive criticism without taking it personally?

Reactions: Agree 1 | Award 1


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## Chris LXXIX (Jul 5, 2016)

mistertim said:


> Like how to accept constructive criticism without taking it personally?


While I do agree, no doubts, with your statement, that remain and is valid (in general) this case is IMO different. MorganRose asked only an advice/opinion about his, somewhat custom, idea for an arboreal enclosure.

I gave him my opinion. As I've said, I wouldn't use that enclosure at all for arboreals, especially *those kind *of arboreals, which I know pretty well (_S.calceatum_) and what they can do within seconds.

Others started to question his experience level, since potent venom OW's were mentioned. Now... I'm one of the first to not suggest certain _Theraphosidae _to unexperienced people... impulsive 'Macho' buying helps no one, after all.

But someone here doesn't even took two, max three seconds of their time, for check MorganRose profile 'info', where there's his currently _Theraphosidae _list he owns, clearly stated. Including lots of badass OW's.

So I understand why he was/is a bit upset.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Venom1080 (Jul 5, 2016)

Mauri said:


> Thats just the point no-one needed any criticism. Sigh why cant you understand this? And others....
> 
> The OP needed advice not to be questioned over his experience. Think about it yourself Tim, how would you like it other people telling you what's good for you when you know that's simply not true and unfair.
> 
> ...


ok, who in this whole thread was being rude to the OP????? People asked what his experience was and whatnot, but never bashed him for anything.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Poec54 (Jul 5, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> I understand why he was/is a bit upset.


 
If his feathers are that easily ruffled, he certainly shouldn't be making the insults he did _("egotistical cave men beating there chests")._  There's no reason for overreacting like that.  He should calm down and listen to what we have to say; he can filter out what he wants.  One of the reasons we're here because we care about the future of the hobby, and want everyone to have a positive experience with the spiders they own.  When we see a new face here asking about advanced species, many of us have inquired about the person's experience/skill.  That's no reason to get huffy.  We're not telling anyone what they can and can't do, we're just wanting it to go well for them because we've seen people who got in over their heads.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Chris LXXIX (Jul 5, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> If his feathers are that easily ruffled, he certainly shouldn't be making the insults he did _("egotistical cave men beating there chests")._  There's no reason for overreacting like that.  He should calm down and listen to what we have to say; he can filter out what he wants.  One of the reasons we're here because we care about the future of the hobby, and want everyone to have a positive experience with the spiders they own.  When we see a new face here asking about advanced species, many of us have inquired about the person's experience/skill.  That's no reason to get huffy.  We're not telling anyone what they can and can't do, we're just wanting it to go well for them because we've seen people who got in over their heads.


Poec54, I'm not saying that you're wrong or else. I understand you and your concerns about the Arachnid hobby, go figure.  

Just that, again, in this case, *no one took* three seconds of their life to understand "who" MorganRose is. I remember his pics, with OW's, and his list.

Let's be honest, someone who already owns without issues 'Haplos', genus _Chilobrachys_, other fast as hell Asian arboreals etc IMO could own those two African arboreral 'Baboons' without issues. 

We aren't talking about someone that doesn't even know what a molt is, and how the molting process works, nor about someone that, after the classic, chubby & beginner _Theraphosidae_, jumps into 'OBT's' and such.

His reaction, ok. But also a bit of humility definitely harms no one, and I add myself as well, for that I love to be a jerk sometimes :-s

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Trenor (Jul 5, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> If his feathers are that easily ruffled, he certainly shouldn't be making the insults he did _("egotistical cave men beating there chests")._  There's no reason for overreacting like that.  He should calm down and listen to what we have to say; he can filter out what he wants.  One of the reasons we're here because we care about the future of the hobby, and want everyone to have a positive experience with the spiders they own.  When we see a new face here asking about advanced species, many of us have inquired about the person's experience/skill.  That's no reason to get huffy.  We're not telling anyone what they can and can't do, we're just wanting it to go well for them because we've seen people who got in over their heads.


I can understand where you are coming from. Some threads, in the first post, it is clear that the keeper is inexperienced for the T he/she is asking about. So asking follow up questions to make sure they don't accidentally end up over their head is fine.

When a thread about enclosure suitability ends up with more posts about what Ts someone has kept then if the enclosure is good then that is kinda a fail. Answer the question posed and if your worried that the guy might be getting a T he is unaware is advance then say, "Hey man these Ts can be rough for <list reasons here> so keep that in mind. It's not hard to get in too deep if your not ready". 

The question gets answered and he gets a good heads up. You've done your part.

To the original question, as others have said I too don't like that enclosure for Ts.


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## Poec54 (Jul 5, 2016)

Trenor said:


> if your worried that the guy might be getting a T he is unaware is advance then say, "Hey man these Ts can be rough for <list reasons here> so keep that in mind. It's not hard to get in too deep if your not ready".


 
I think that would have set him off too.  We have good intentions, no reason for anyone's feelings to be hurt, or offended that we asked.  As I said, we've had people with "OW experience", that's only been with slings.  A simple question.


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## gypsy cola (Jul 5, 2016)

So where did you get these enclosures? I think I wants some for obligate burrowers.


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## Andrea82 (Jul 5, 2016)

You guys...if you look back in the thread, page 1, you will see that the matter was discussed and over with like four or five posts. Then Mauri came in and started a nice little fire, to which everyone took offense, resulting in name calling and other ugliness. You people need to start ignoring him. Treat him like the loud bully he is and nottake anything he says seriously. This is like the tenth thread he managed to derail and inflame. DDon't give him the satisfaction.

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 2


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## advan (Jul 6, 2016)

Andrea82 said:


> You guys...if you look back in the thread, page 1, you will see that the matter was discussed and over with like four or five posts. Then Mauri came in and started a nice little fire, to which everyone took offense, resulting in name calling and other ugliness. You people need to start ignoring him. Treat him like the loud bully he is and nottake anything he says seriously. This is like the tenth thread he managed to derail and inflame. Don't give him the satisfaction.


THIS.

Put on ignore list or just ignore. Do not feed into it and derail another thread.


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