# African Red Trapdoor Spider, home with a View



## Ciphor (Oct 12, 2012)

Made a new enclosure this week for my African Red trapdoor spider.

I used...


Simple 10 inch tall square glass vase
70/30 peatmoss/vermiculite, semi-moist
Broom handle or similar diameter stick placed in spot before packing down substrate
Moss
Stiff black paper/board
Ducktape
Butter Knife with paper towel wrapped around it to clean glass next to tunnel










I also discovered the species of my spider thanks to a new camera & species keys available in *Baboon and Trapdoor Spiders of Southern Africa: An Identification Guide* by A.S. Dippenaar-Schoeman.

My spider was sold to me as a _Gorgyrella sp._ however when I checked the underside I found "_two pairs of small marginal sigilla; coxa III with strips of rather slender setae on posteroventral border_" Key to genus _Ctenolophus_ mine pictured below. *Note: That is a fully developed female epigynum*




I then pinpointed the species by eye arrangement and again, coxa setae. The guide explains the eye arrangement, I drew it out so you guys can see. The posterior row is procurved & the anterior lateral eyes are located on the clypeal edge.




Using all the species keys I was able to rule out and isolate one candidate _Ctenolophus fenoulheti_

"_Coxa III with strongly developed, narrow patch of slender, bristly setae; posterior median eyes closer to posterior lateral eyes than to each other (Newington)_" *Ctenolophus fenoulheti Hewitt, 1913*

Reactions: Like 4


----------



## catfishrod69 (Oct 12, 2012)

Thats some awesome stuff man. Really cool looking. I have a suposed Gorgyrella red. Maybe you can grab hold of mine and see what it is ?


----------



## Ciphor (Oct 12, 2012)

_Ctenolophus fenoulheti_


----------



## spydrhunter1 (Oct 12, 2012)

What about a lid?


----------



## Ciphor (Oct 13, 2012)

spydrhunter1 said:


> What about a lid?


I ensured the distance from ground to top of vase was greater than the spiders length, as they cannot climb and are rather clumsy outside of their burrow.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## nepenthes (Oct 13, 2012)

Beautiful spider! My girlfriend wants a trap door spider.


----------



## Ciphor (Oct 13, 2012)

catfishrod69 said:


> Thats some awesome stuff man. Really cool looking. I have a suposed Gorgyrella red. Maybe you can grab hold of mine and see what it is ?


Hehe sure just send it on over ^_~


----------



## poisoned (Oct 13, 2012)

Ciphor said:


> I ensured the distance from ground to top of vase was greater than the spiders length, as they cannot climb and are rather clumsy outside of their burrow.


Seriously?

I don't know much about trapdoors, but I wouldn't dare to house one like this even if they can't climb


----------



## Ciphor (Oct 13, 2012)

poisoned said:


> Seriously?
> 
> I don't know much about trapdoors, but I wouldn't dare to house one like this even if they can't climb


Yes seriously.

Not everyone lives with fear of spiders. This one is quite harmless.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## poisoned (Oct 13, 2012)

Ciphor said:


> Yes seriously.
> 
> Not everyone lives with fear of spiders. This one is quite harmless.


I didn't mean to bash you, I just don't trust them that much 

Aren't trapdoors considered very venomous? I don't know, just asking.


----------



## catfishrod69 (Oct 13, 2012)

Haha, i would but, you know lol. 





Ciphor said:


> Hehe sure just send it on over ^_~




---------- Post added 10-13-2012 at 02:55 PM ----------

This is just what i have read, but it might vary from genus to genus. I read that the african traps have horrible venom, bit multiple times, and wont let go. Their venom is not killer, but is worse than any tarantula. Correct me if im wrong, but just what i remember reading. I know i wouldnt want bitten by one, simply because they are scary little critters lol.





poisoned said:


> I didn't mean to bash you, I just don't trust them that much
> 
> Aren't trapdoors considered very venomous? I don't know, just asking.


----------



## Anonymity82 (Oct 13, 2012)

I wouldn't be worried about being bitten, I would be more worried about it getting out and never seeing it again IMO.


----------



## Ciphor (Oct 13, 2012)

No Trapdoor spider is known to be medically significant to humans or vertebrates that I have heard of, or read about. _Anyone_ can have an adverse reaction to any bite or sting situation. I am speaking in a general sense.

Unfortunately the only references that I know of are not publicly available, but if you have access the citings to read are listed below, most are available on NCBI

Freyvogel, T.A. 1972. Poisonous and venomous animals in
East Africa. Acta Tropica 29: 401–451

Perret, B.A. & Freyvogel, T.A. 1973. Further investigation on
the venom of the East-African orthognath spider, Pterinochilus sp. (preliminary report). In: Kaiser, E. (ed.). Animal
and plant toxins. Goldmann Verlag, München: 23–28.

Perret, B.A. 1974a. The venom of the East African spider
Pterinochilus sp. Toxicon 12: 303–310.

Most venom research of south african species is focused on baboon tarantulas (Pterinochilus) as when tested these spiders showed a venom to be concerned with. Of course biologists tested other large mygalids, they just didn't find anything that warranted further research. They do discuss other families & sub-families like Idiopinae in some of their papers. 

This paragraph sums it up for toxic spiders in SA.

"_Little is known about the effect of the venom of mygalomorphs on man or animals. A species of Pterinochilus (Theraphosidae) from East Africa produces a venom with neurotoxic properties based on experimental work with mice and guineapigs. However, compared to that of, for example, the black button spider, the venom is less toxic (Perrett, 1974a). In Southern Africa, painful bites have been reported from Harpactirella lightfooti, a theraphosid species known from the Western Cape Province (Finlayson, 1939; Smithers, 1939). The spider most venomous to man is the male of an Australian mygalomorph, Atrax robustus, of the family Hexathelidae. It is commonly known as Sydney’s funnelweb spider and 14 known deaths have been attributed to it (R. Raven, pers. comm.). Hexathelidae do not occur in Southern Africa._"

In my opinion, if these spiders were medically significant, there would be some research to back it up like there is for _Pterinochilus spp._

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## catfishrod69 (Oct 13, 2012)

That totally makes sense. I guess we need some test dummies...


----------



## web eviction (Oct 13, 2012)

catfishrod69 said:


> That totally makes sense. I guess we need some test dummies...


Well poke ur finger in and find out John ! Lol i'll send you mine and you can test them to  lol just playin man... 
Them red traps look pretty sweet though!


----------



## catfishrod69 (Oct 14, 2012)

Haha i would but that would put me into a panic attack i may never come out of . Yeah sure, send it on over lol. My red female is like 2.5", huge girl. 





web eviction said:


> Well poke ur finger in and find out John ! Lol i'll send you mine and you can test them to  lol just playin man...
> Them red traps look pretty sweet though!


----------



## tonypace2009 (Oct 14, 2012)

That enclosier looks cool. Do the Red trap doors also build hidden tunnels? How big do they get? Myrmekiaphila comstocki trap doors only get about an inch. Had to give them up  before I moved to Texas But now Iam thinking of getting a couple more of them your red trap door realy looks huge does he eat full size crickets?


----------



## web eviction (Oct 14, 2012)

catfishrod69 said:


> Haha i would but that would put me into a panic attack i may never come out of . Yeah sure, send it on over lol. My red female is like 2.5", huge girl.


Haha I here ya I got stung by a C. gracilis one day and my anxiety shot through the roof! I was like oh god oh god I'm dying....wait I think I'm ok nope definetly dying!!! Took about 15 minutes to realize I was fine and had no real reaction at all lol 
2.5" is big I just might have to get one of these!!

To the OP your enclosure you made is awesome just may have to steal that idea


----------



## The Snark (Oct 14, 2012)

*Query*

Ciphor, when you set about re-identifying what the species was, was it an open field or did you have certain suspects in mind? What caused you to doubt the original identification?


----------



## Ciphor (Oct 14, 2012)

The Snark said:


> Ciphor, when you set about re-identifying what the species was, was it an open field or did you have certain suspects in mind? What caused you to doubt the original identification?


I didn't doubt the genus, I simply had access to the spider and the documents to ID it, so I gave it a shot and had success. The only thing I needed to ID was a good shot of cheliceral teeth, sternum/sigilla, ocular area measurements & coxa setae.


----------



## The Snark (Oct 14, 2012)

Ciphor said:


> I didn't doubt the genus, I simply had access to the spider and the documents to ID it, so I gave it a shot and had success. The only thing I needed to ID was a good shot of cheliceral teeth, sternum/sigilla, ocular area measurements & coxa setae.


Your reply should be a sticky, quotable for the people who ask for the exact make, model and optional accessories of a pidey.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Ciphor (Oct 18, 2012)

tonypace2009 said:


> That enclosier looks cool. Do the Red trap doors also build hidden tunnels? How big do they get? Myrmekiaphila comstocki trap doors only get about an inch. Had to give them up  before I moved to Texas But now Iam thinking of getting a couple more of them your red trap door realy looks huge does he eat full size crickets?


Sorry I missed this!

This particular species of trapdoor has only been observed to burrow straight down, and sometimes laterally at the bottom of tunnel if the substrate does not provide enough depth. There are some strange ones out there though, one species makes a system of tunnels with doors and chambers. Females will lay egg in a chamber where slings can hatch, be safe, while not bothering mom. 

I'm not sure what this spiders average size is. When I received mine (unknown age) she was already female and mature, and roughly 2 inches (leg span). She had a real solid molt a few months ago and gained darn near an inch, I kid you not, you can see her in the picture, she is a biggy alright.

My gal definitely eats full sized crickets. This family has also been documented taking down small vertebrates, so I could feed her a pinky or an anole or something. I never would however, due to extra strain/stress. I mostly feed her once a month since she had her last molt, 1 small to medium cricket, lots of water in a bottle cap.


----------



## tonypace2009 (Oct 18, 2012)

I have had some of the local trap doors about 7 of them .even had a eggsac full of them
I had to let them go because we moved and couldn't have them where we where staying.
Iam thinking of getting another one.your red is really awesome where did you get him and how much?
I also saw a couple of silver ones a few months ago they looked crome plated.


----------



## Chris_Skeleton (Oct 19, 2012)

I've always found the eye arrangement of these quite interesting.


----------



## nzcookie (Oct 20, 2012)

wow what a cool way to do it!!! ivc always wanted to be able to see what my trapdoors were doing under all the substrate!! might have to steal this idea  haha awesome wee spider man


----------



## Enven Reptiles (Nov 4, 2012)

im going to try this with some euoplus trapdoors


----------

