# Hottentotta hottentotta



## ryan88

I know there are tons of care sheets already here, but still there are couple or so inquiries on how i keep mine. A friend suggested to post it here.

So here goes.
Temperature: Average 29-32C at day and 27-28 at night.
Humidity: 50-60% 
Basically i use coco husk or coco dust for substrate and misting 2x a week. Remember not to mist directly at the scorpion.






I also feed them 2x a week. Hottentotta hottentotta are very aggressive scorpion. The venom level is a 3-3.5 out of 5 and able to take down bigger prey.






Hottentotta hottentotta are parthenogenetic. That means that a female of this species can produce off springs without ever mating with a male. Gestastion period every 3-4 months.






I started with one female and ended up with more then i can handle. So better think about taking of more 1-2, cause when they start popping there's no stopping them:razz: 






Now i keep in smaller container to save some space.






And kept some early instars in a communal setup.






Here's some of the new batch











Hope these help.
Thanks!

Reactions: Like 3 | Informative 4 | Sad 1 | Helpful 2 | Wow 1


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## Vixvy

To all people who have availed our free HH. This caresheet is all base from our own experience. This by far is the best in my own humble opinion.  

Very Very detailed! the best!

This is very HIGHLY RECOMMENDED! 

Kudos to you my friend ryan88!

Thats not even the whole collection of HH its only partial. <edit> hehehehe!

Reactions: Like 1


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## ArachnoNut

Vixvy said:


> To all people who have availed my free HH. This caresheet is all base from our own experience. This by far is the best in my own humble opinion.
> 
> Very Very detailed! the best!
> 
> This is very HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!
> 
> Kudos to you my friend ryan88!


Very good care sheet it'll help me out a lot thanks a lot for this care sheet


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## gromgrom

thanks, i was hoping to pick up one female this weekend.


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## RyoKenzaki

I just got my 1st second generation brood from my hottentotta, i will have that amount of yours in next year!


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## Vixvy

gromgrom said:


> thanks, i was hoping to pick up one female this weekend.


What ever the sex of hh you get you'll end up getting slings.


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## gromgrom

Vixvy said:


> What ever the sex of hh you get you'll end up getting slings.


theyre 2i so i hope its a female :/ I heard theres rare cases of males. how many have you gotten?


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## Vixvy

gromgrom said:


> theyre 2i so i hope its a female :/ I heard theres rare cases of males. how many have you gotten?


Out of 3 broods of 30's we got 5-6pcs of male only. I asked my friend ryan88 to post some photos of hh mating. I think this is the only photo or record of hh mating. Again we might not be sure if theres any record of hh mating but this could be the first one.

Thou both male and female produces slings. Female gives more slings than males.


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## ArachnoNut

I noticed one thing, there weren't any hides or anything in the individual containers i was wondering if it was necessary to have or not? and reason i asking i got 30 1-2 instars  of these's and i keep losing some  and i am trying to figure it out i have then in there own containers i try feeding once or twice a week ( sometimes they dont eat at all) temps in my house are 78 all times and humidity is 50% + in my house just cant seem to figure out wtf ;/


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## gromgrom

Vixvy said:


> Thou both male and female produces slings. Female gives more slings than males.


haha wow i didnt think the males were parthogenic too. 

is there any benefits to mating them? better broods? larger broods?


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## RyoKenzaki

Vixvy said:


> Thou both male and female produces slings. Female gives more slings than males.


Are u saying that the male in this species can give birth too????


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## ryan88

> Originally Posted by vixvy
> Out of 3 broods of 30's we got 5-6pcs of male only. I asked my friend ryan88 to post some photos of hh mating.


Sorry bro, relayed you the wrong information. Out of 30 females 5-6 males were produce from their brood.   
Here's a couple of photos taken while mating. This was taken 3 years back. It was by accident when i about to make a communal set up for adults. 










Mating was succesful, however no brood was produce. Still don't know why? Both are now deceased.



> Originally Posted by JoeyS
> I noticed one thing, there weren't any hides or anything in the individual containers i was wondering if it was necessary to have or not? and reason i asking i got 30 1-2 instars of these's and i keep losing some and i am trying to figure it out i have then in there own containers i try feeding once or twice a week ( sometimes they dont eat at all) temps in my house are 78 all times and humidity is 50% + in my house just cant seem to figure out wtf ;/


So far i haven't use any hides for them from slings to adults, no problem so far.  78F (that's 25.5C) that seems to be too cold for them. their methabolism will go slower and will refuse to eat.



> Originally Posted by gromgrom
> is there any benefits to mating them? better broods? larger broods?


So far no data yet. Both never poduced any brood, the male died after 2 months and the female died 3 months after mating. Probably from old age

This specie can produce slings when it reaches subadult (6th instar). However when it does, it will never molt again. It is capable of producing 3-4 broods (rarely do they produce 5 broods, but somethimes it happens)in their lifetime.

Thanks!


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## ryan88

@RyoKenzaki
Yes even males can produce slings, however fewer than the females.


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## Goon_CH

Is this Hottentotta hottentotta, Hottentotta hottentotta nigrocarinatus or Hottentotta hottentotta ex caboverdensis?


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## ryan88

Hottentotta hottentotta


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## Michiel

ryan88 said:


> @RyoKenzaki
> Yes even males can produce slings, however fewer than the females.


Yeah, of course and I have 200 million dollar in the bank and I am loved by Beyonce AND Rihanna ALL DAY LONG. 

Wake up man, he is pulling your leg.


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## Vixvy

In the case of HH we personally saw a male giving birth. But with regards to H.longimanus this needs more study and research as from what I know almost all of them are WC. The sexual dimorphism of h.longimanus pectines is hard to determine not like the other heterometrus or pandinus that we can easily determine the sex.

Reactions: Like 1


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## RyoKenzaki

Enlighten me, what make u said the one giving birth are male? 
From what i know, biologically, male aren't design to give birth, if they do then i wonder what's the different between male and female 
Eleborate more if u are serious


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## Goon_CH

Vixvy said:


> Out of 3 broods of 30's we got 5-6pcs of male only.


Then you had a couple that has mated? For in parthenogenetically conceived offspring, the cubs are ALL female.


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## AzJohn

Maybe a smaller, less able to compete, female, acts male in order to gain some sort of competitive addvantage. I coarse I could be an absolute fool for sugesting it. I'm really out of my league when it comes to biology.

John


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## Vixvy

Both male and female gives birth even if they are not mated at all. We keep most of our HH separated individually contained as you can see in the photos. We have seen a male giving birth without mating.

The only difference between a male and a female giving birth is the size of the broods.

Again this is all base from our own experience. And we do not have any scientific basis. To see is to believe. And those are base from what we saw and experienced.


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## RyoKenzaki

I'm convinced that you mis-sex them...
From my understanding, only female are produced through parthenogenic so where did u get your male from? 
A picture of the specimen will help to convince us if you are serious


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## Goon_CH

And where you have the male? If it is from a parthenogenetic birth, we can stop here to discuss ;-)

PS:
A male is biologically unable to get kittens. If I know that's the entire animal kingdom Sun There are at most in some species where the animal is required to switch their gender. But one never-dropped the young males the


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## Vixvy

Goon_CH said:


> And where you have the male? If it is from a parthenogenetic birth, we can stop here to discuss ;-)
> 
> PS:
> A male is biologically unable to get kittens. If I know that's the entire animal kingdom Sun There are at most in some species where the animal is required to switch their gender. But one never-dropped the young males the


Yes the male is from a parthenogenic birth. We are searching for the photo of the male FROM A PARTHENOGENIC BIRTH that gave birth. As soon as we find the photo we will post it here.


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## Goon_CH

Then there is a female and not male. In a parthenogentischen birth there are ONLY females.

Sorry men


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## dairy

gromgrom said:


> haha wow i didnt think the males were parthogenic too.
> 
> is there any benefits to mating them? better broods? larger broods?


I'm not 100% on this so maybe some one who is can chime in. 

The benefit would be genetic variety. Stronger/more resilient offspring should be produced from a mating. As I understand it parthenogenesis is almost like cloning. All of your offspring produce this way will have the same susceptibilities. On an individual level I'm not sure it matters but looking at a larger population that could prove to be a real weak point. But again, I don't know much about it and I'm really just using some basic understanding of biology and a little bit of logic/extrapolation to draw that conclusion.


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## ryan88

What the! 


Male at the left, Female at the right.





It will take me about a week before i can get a photo of their ventral side.

Again, I no longer keep adult communally again to save space. The mating happened accidentally and was never attempted again. No off springs were produce after the mating, both are already dead. 

Didn't want to cause a fuzz nor to step on anybodies toes. Never claimed that i know everything about this species. Only that i have more than i can handle.

Male or Female you decide. If you believe that they are all females then there's no point continuing the discussion.


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## Goon_CH

ryan88 said:


> Male or Female you decide. If you believe that they are all females then there's no point continuing the discussion.


Yeah, probably will be the best ......


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## Michiel

H.hottentotta from parthenogenetic populations produce thelytokous, all female broods. What you have here, my friends, are small adult females and large adult females (that became adult one instar later than the small females). There are size classes in Buthids, as I explained many times on the Venomlist to our members there (See the FAQ section for a post called variation in size and coloration.

I have seen males of H.hottentotta from sexual populations and these have , to name one thing, very large bulky chela. What you are calling a male in your pictures, is simply a small female.
Males do not give birth in nature, what WHERE you thinking? LOL

Regards, Michiel


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## ryan88

> Originally Posted by Michiel:
> Yes, it was wrong of me to assume you guys drunk too much, but you should have made sense, and you are not.  What sort of drugs are you on?


Haven't tried any yet. What do you recommend?

Sexual dimorphism not readily apparent with this specie, width of pedipalp chela same in both sexes. That's base on what František Kovař�k wrote.


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## RyoKenzaki

Then explain this 
http://www.ntnu.no/ub/scorpion-files/h_hottentotta_burkinafaso.jpg

Picture from the scorpion file...

Notice the bulbous chela, compare to yours


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## ryan88

You may be correct.
Try this.
http://www.hottentotta.com/hottentotta-description.html


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## NevularScorpion

Let me add another view point on this sp 

Maybe they are hermaphrodites  ....after they mate both sexes will give birth to a new scorplings. examples are like plant doing cross pollination, worms mating, snails copulating and other animals. Some sp of scorpion might have this ability too. 


eek: I think I just made myself a target)


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## ryan88

So it's safe to say these are both females.


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## Goon_CH

It is not who is right or wrong. My concern is that this false facts are common. The reading with the time X people and think   really can get hottentotta Hottentotta male pups.

@ Vixvy:

I find nice that you have fun on this thread. However, such comments make you anything but a credible.


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## Michiel

ryan88 said:


> Haven't tried any yet. What do you recommend?
> 
> Sexual dimorphism not readily apparent with this specie, width of pedipalp chela same in both sexes. That's base on what František Kovař�k wrote.


Kovarik is a good friend of mine, and you seem to misinterpret his work. I am out of this thread, go spend some one elses time.


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## skinheaddave

I've trimmed a lot of the off topic gibberish and personal attacks from this thread.  Now, that being said: 

Sex is a mysterious thing.   There are plenty of examples in nature of animals which do not follow a very simple male/female/sexual reproduction type system.  We are discovering new mating systems, sexual flipping, sexual ambiguity etc. all the time.  There are several types of parthenogenesis and we discover new animals displaying this mating system with surprising regularity. 

That being said, what I am reading here is rubbish of the highest order.  The skeptics are quite right to be skeptical.  First thing's first, I see no mention of how the species of these specimens was determined and if there was a reliable collection locale.  Let's assume not and keep them as Hottentotta sp. for now.  Secondly, I see no mention of dissections on here.  Using secondary sexual characteristics (which is what chela thickness etc. is) I can prove that human males can give birth.  If I go through the various maternity wards of the various hospitals, I'm sure I can find a pregnant mother with a bit of a mustache and hands that make mine look dainty.  

What this situation needs is a bit of actual investigation on the part of the people making the extraordinary claims.  I'm not going to keep my hopes up on that one happening, though.

Cheers,
Dave


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## Avery

Good lord! These scorpions are multiplying at an exponential rate. Soon we'll be overrun! Just kidding. Cool scorps.


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## odiakkoh

Male, female, whatever. I just think they are so cute!



skinheaddave said:


> If I go through the various maternity wards of the various hospitals, I'm sure I can find a pregnant mother with a bit of a mustache and hands that make mine look dainty.


That is such a great mental image.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Raan_Jodus

never really had any luck with my HH reproducing.  She had one brood (her first one) and it was just eggs, they weren't really even developed into first instars yet.  Since then (over a year since) she has gotten fat, but no production.  Shame really, she might only have another year or so to live (maybe 2).  Although I'll be honest, I don't really want hundreds of HH's running around


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## ArachnoNut

Raan_Jodus said:


> never really had any luck with my HH reproducing.  She had one brood (her first one) and it was just eggs, they weren't really even developed into first instars yet.  Since then (over a year since) she has gotten fat, but no production.  Shame really, she might only have another year or so to live (maybe 2).  Although I'll be honest, I don't really want hundreds of HH's running around


Eggs.....?


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## Nomadinexile

JoeyS said:


> Eggs.....?


Where do you think you came from??   That's what females produce, including humans.   Then the male (except in Parthenogenetic species) comes along and fertilizes it.   Then here comes Joey.   

Which leads to my bigger point:

Which came first?   Joey or the egg?  :razz:


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## ArachnoNut

Nomadinexile said:


> Where do you think you came from??   That's what females produce, including humans.   Then the male (except in Parthenogenetic species) comes along and fertilizes it.   Then here comes Joey.
> 
> Which leads to my bigger point:
> 
> Which came first?   Joey or the egg?  :razz:


Well in humans the eggs are microscopic, so when he said he seen egg's i was like huh?...


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## Nomadinexile

JoeyS said:


> Well in humans the eggs are microscopic, so when he said he seen egg's i was like huh?...


Ah, I see.   I don't know when they go from eggs to fetus' in HH.   Any of you Genius' here know?


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## RyoKenzaki

Raan_Jodus said:


> never really had any luck with my HH reproducing.  She had one brood (her first one) and it was just eggs, they weren't really even developed into first instars yet.  Since then (over a year since) she has gotten fat, but no production.  Shame really, she might only have another year or so to live (maybe 2).  Although I'll be honest, I don't really want hundreds of HH's running around


I remember reading an interesting topic on VL last time
They are discussing about why their hottentotta hottentotta are abandoning their brood (Infertile eggs) and they came out with a theory that the female sensed pheromone from another male that are being kept very near to her enclosure and so she abandon them and wanted to mate with the male instead
But i'm not saying this theory is right, i will try to look for the topic and post it here 

*Editted: Nvm, i cant find the topic and think that this is not right because my hottentotta was housed beside a male jacksoni and she pop-ed just fine* 

Anw the whole male hottentotta popping have been discussed in this thread before, might shed some light for this debate here
http://www.venomlist.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=13834


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## Raan_Jodus

I'll give that a read.  As for pheromones, I'm not sure, I have an H. Judaicus, but I really have no idea of sex or age on it.  It has never molted in my care, I've had it for 2 years now, and I didn't think it was full grown when I got it, but oh well.

I was under the impression that I just got a female that isn't quite breedable, which is a bit of a shame but oh well.  Once I start blasting with the heat lamp again (its been a hot hot summer here, no way I can have it on in my room), maybe she'll do better.  Otherwise, shes kept well.

Wish I had a larger selection of H's around here, they are neat lil scorpions.


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## NevularScorpion

Nomadinexile said:


> Where do you think you came from??   That's what females produce, including humans.   Then the male (except in Parthenogenetic species) comes along and fertilizes it.   Then here comes Joey.
> 
> Which leads to my bigger point:
> 
> Which came first?   Joey or the egg?  :razz:


this is so funny but makes sense lol


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## william_wang

do you anyone have the pics about the sperm？
if not ....how to prove they have mated?


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## Esque

ryan88 said:


> I know there are tons of care sheets already here, but still there are couple or so inquiries on how i keep mine. A friend suggested to post it here.
> 
> So here goes.
> Temperature: Average 29-32C at day and 27-28 at night.
> Humidity: 50-60%
> Basically i use coco husk or coco dust for substrate and misting 2x a week. Remember not to mist directly at the scorpion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I also feed them 2x a week. Hottentotta hottentotta are very aggressive scorpion. The venom level is a 3-3.5 out of 5 and able to take down bigger prey.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hottentotta hottentotta are parthenogenetic. That means that a female of this species can produce off springs without ever mating with a male. Gestastion period every 3-4 months.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I started with one female and ended up with more then i can handle. So better think about taking of more 1-2, cause when they start popping there's no stopping them:razz:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now i keep in smaller container to save some space.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And kept some early instars in a communal setup.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's some of the new batch
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hope these help.
> Thanks!


Sorry to dig out this old post, just wondering is a hide essential for this species (as I see a few of your cup with no hides)?


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## Bob Lee

Esque said:


> Sorry to dig out this old post, just wondering is a hide essential for this species (as I see a few of your cup with no hides)?


omg... There was a guy on the first page of this thread that literally asked the same thing...
READ!!!! READ!!! PEOPLE!!!


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## isara0you

Hi guys! Just wanted to clarify something after 8+ years, has anyone found the answer about the reproduction of this sp? Are the males really "Parthenogentic"?


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## Patherophis

isara0you said:


> Hi guys! Just wanted to clarify something after 8+ years, has anyone found the answer about the reproduction of this sp? Are the males really "Parthenogentic"?


Just read thread carefuly, answer is on page 2, post #29.



Michiel said:


> H.hottentotta from parthenogenetic populations produce thelytokous, all female broods. What you have here, my friends, are small adult females and large adult females (that became adult one instar later than the small females). There are size classes in Buthids, as I explained many times on the Venomlist to our members there (See the FAQ section for a post called variation in size and coloration.
> 
> I have seen males of H.hottentotta from sexual populations and these have , to name one thing, very large bulky chela. What you are calling a male in your pictures, is simply a small female.
> Males do not give birth in nature, what WHERE you thinking? LOL
> 
> Regards, Michiel


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## isara0you

Patherophis said:


> Just read thread carefuly, answer is on page 2, post #29.


 Thanks!


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## Noobie

*Oh boy.. glad i found this post.. for my friend was planning to give me a H.h scorpion.. i only have a h.longi.. not sure if it is a longi.. do.. thanks for the info sir..

heres my sling
	

		
			
		

		
	





*


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