# Scorpion venom scale



## harleyquinn (May 21, 2013)

Hey im trying to make a list of familys of scorpions so far i have this-
(This is how i scale venom )
1- bee sting 2- hornet sting 3- very painful 4- doctors or ill for few days 5- deadly could kill
1-3
Babycurus - 3
Bothriurus 
Brachistosternus
Buthidae - 3
Caraboctonus
Chaerilus - 0
Euscorpius - 0
Hadogenes - 0
Hadrurus
Heterometrus
Liocheles - 0
Ophistothalmus
Opistacanthus
Pandinus - 1
Scorpio
Smeringurus - 2
Vaejovis - around a 2-3


4-5
Androtonus
Buthus
Centruroides
Hottentotta
Leiurus
Mesobuthus
Odonturus
Parabuthus
Tityus
Feel free to change my list or add comments


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## Tarantula155 (May 21, 2013)

harleyquinn said:


> Hey im trying to make a list of familys of scorpions so far i have this-
> (This is how i scale venom )
> 1- bee sting 2- hornet sting 3- very painful 4- doctors or ill for few days 5- death
> 1-2 unless stated
> ...


Very helpful.


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## harleyquinn (May 21, 2013)

Cheers its just what ive worked out from books and research just asking for more opinions or other familys to add


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## G. Carnell (May 21, 2013)

Hey

I would put Babycurus as 3+ (and all Buthidae as 3+ to be honest!)
Its also hard to ID them compared to Odonturus dentatus- which to my knowledge has caused rare deaths in children


you could put a 0 number for those scorps like Euscorpius/Hadogenes/Liocheles which are even less than a beesting! 

Nice idea though


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## harleyquinn (May 21, 2013)

Will add this now  im trying to put what it would do on to a healthy adult but ill add all what you said thanks for the imput !


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## aznative86 (May 21, 2013)

Centruroides been stung a couple times by AZ barks, along with people I know and we are all fine just a bad bee sting   nice list!

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## ~Abyss~ (May 21, 2013)

aznative86 said:


> Centruroides been stung a couple times by AZ barks, along with people I know and we are all fine just a bad bee sting   nice list!


I got tagged and it the pain shot up to my shoulder...lasted 2 weeks. Those c.sculpts are no joke. But I would put all centruroides on the same scale. In fact I dont really much agree with the scale at all.


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## G. Carnell (May 21, 2013)

I think it's a good scale, especially for beginners looking for this kind of stuff, and "venom potency" questions are very often asked here

the only alternative is the table in Manny Rubeo's scorpion keeping book I believe

couple more to add

Chaerilus you can add to 0


Think your list pretty much sums up the easily available species to beginners


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## harleyquinn (May 21, 2013)

Its only really for begginers nothing too advanced the 1-3 are the main point as there good for 1st 2nd 3rd scorpion etc


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## aznative86 (May 22, 2013)

I did notice that being stung closer to our valley by one found in my yard the pain was nothing compared to when I got hit in the middle of no where, it was x10 worse than the one I found in my backyard, I think the population of people spraying chemicals and lack of all surrounding vegetation and insects has affected the role a lot over the years, along with the fact I am near a 200+ acre hay farm and the crop dusting they do I think has lowered their potency. All in all any opinion from reading to experience is worth listening to it with this hobby


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## Greenjewls (May 22, 2013)

I have to disagree a bit, but it's a good general chart.  everyone experiences venoms differently. Plus it's up to the individual scorpion how much venom it gives you. IMO bee stings are 2 and hornet stings a 1. Vaejovis is less than that. centroides is worse than a bee sting at worst but usually not as bad. Bee stings are consistant because it is the same amount of venom every time. Scorpions may poke you, give you a drop, or give you an injection. my grandma got stung on the face by C. sculpturatus and shes 83 years old, she got some swelling and pain but shes fine. sucks that they like to get in bed with ppl in AZ.


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## harleyquinn (May 22, 2013)

Its just a rough idea the 1-3 are grouped like that because people experience it differently but 4-5 is serperate because its a big jump really


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## ShredderEmp (May 22, 2013)

Greenjewls said:


> sucks that they like to get in bed with ppl in AZ.


Horny scorpions haha.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Butterbean83 (Jul 17, 2019)

Old thread I know but interests me... What about Nebos?


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## AzJohn (Jul 17, 2019)

Most of this is just hobbyist "what ever". If you are really interested in venom potency you should research LD 50 data. LD 50 is the lethal dose of venom required to kill your test population, usually mice 50% of the time. For instance the LD 50 of Leiurus quinquestriatus is .25 mg/kg, and _Hadogenes  species is around 2000mg/kg. 
_

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Dry Desert (Jul 18, 2019)

Butterbean83 said:


> Old thread I know but interests me... What about Nebos?


Venom Potency depends on how pissed off the animal is at the time and how fit  physically the person is. Venomous snakes will give dry bites sometimes, the same with scorpions. It was reported that the British troops serving in Iraq where stung many times by some of the most venomous scorpions,but because of their excellent physical fitness suffered no long term effects. It's all relative really. I've been keeping all manner of scorpions for many, many years and have never been stung because they all get treated with the same respect as I may have a very bad reaction to a mildly venomous scorpion, so they all are treated as highly venomous, one never knows and why risk it.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Butterbean83 (Jul 18, 2019)

Dry Desert said:


> Venom Potency depends on how pissed off the animal is at the time and how fit  physically the person is. Venomous snakes will give dry bites sometimes, the same with scorpions. It was reported that the British troops serving in Iraq where stung many times by some of the most venomous scorpions,but because of their excellent physical fitness suffered no long term effects. It's all relative really. I've been keeping all manner of scorpions for many, many years and have never been stung because they all get treated with the same respect as I may have a very bad reaction to a mildly venomous scorpion, so they all are treated as highly venomous, one never knows and why risk it.


Good point, but anaphylaxis can be relatively common with venom, except with Ts in which it seems to be rare, yeah those guys in the military are in excellent physical condition. The stories of Solifugids over there make me laugh though, I imagine at 10mph at such a small size compared to humans, we they must frighten people though. I see some people keep Solifugids on here, must be a nightmare to stop escaping lol


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## pannaking22 (Jul 18, 2019)

AzJohn said:


> For instance the LD 50 of Leiurus quinquestriatus is .25 mg/kg, and _Hadogenes  species is around 2000mg/kg._


I didn't realize there was an LD50 for _Hadogenes_. I just had a lot of fun trying to calculate how much venom would be needed if one was trying to off me. It would definitely take a while lol.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Falsielove13 (Jul 19, 2019)

aznative86 said:


> Centruroides been stung a couple times by AZ barks, along with people I know and we are all fine just a bad bee sting   nice list!


I have been stung a couple of times by Sculpturatus and twice was a mild pain and one gave me a seizure and full systemic reaction. Plus all of the known fatalities from the species is why I disagree. C Gracilis is rated a 3 and in my opinion from young and sub adult stings, I'll take a poke from an adult gracilis over even my Hottentotta Hottentotta sub adults.  And all I keep are Hott, Andro, Para, Tityus, Leiurus, Buthus, and Centruroides species and a couple other buthidae


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## Falsielove13 (Jul 19, 2019)

pannaking22 said:


> I didn't realize there was an LD50 for _Hadogenes_. I just had a lot of fun trying to calculate how much venom would be needed if one was trying to off me. It would definitely take a while lol.


I thought it was interesting that H arizonensis is roughly a 198mg/kg LD50 but I've got a Parabuthus Granulatus that's bigger than my adult desert hairy with an LD50 of 1.58mg/kg


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