# gigantea robusta = Scolopendra angulata ?



## Steven (Dec 27, 2006)

Not trying to be scientific or myriapodologist,... but just some personal thoughts on the true ID of the "Scolopendra sp. "gigantea robusta" in the pet-trade.
To my opinion these are _*Scolopendra angulata angulata*_
I've followed the Scolopendra keys from Attems* and i've checked the distribution from Shelley's catalog and it all matches,... mmmm :? 
These aren't Sc.gigantea or subspecie of gigantea, i think we all know that by now (not enough smooth basil antennae segments) and not Sc.robusta (cause those are Mexican and not that big)
The distribution of Sc.angulata angulata is quite wide and goes from Venezuela (overlapping Gigantea's territory), Ecuador to Brazil, Bolivia.**

I think we can only be 100% of its true ID if a dead specimen will be send to a pro-myriapodologist,... but just wanted to share my thoughts,... 

if anyone can tell why "gigantea robusta" isn't Sc.angulata or how Sc.angulata actually looks like,... please share.

some pictures of my old female  




























*Attems, C. G. von, 1930. Myriapoda 2. Scolopendromorpha. Das Tierreich, 54: 1-308'
**Shelley, R. M., 2006, A chronological catalog of the New World species of Scolopendra L., 1758 (Chilopoda: Scolopendromorpha: Scolopendridae) Zootaxa 1253: 1–50 (2006)


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## Scolo_lord (Dec 27, 2006)

Pïcture 1 is Scolopendra '' Robusta'' Gigantea.
En for my its al the same spieces.

En for my dis is a Scolopendra angulata







En dis species live in Dominican Republic en Haitti.

Greats,

Scolo_lord


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## Steven (Dec 28, 2006)

Hey Scolo_lord,... just a quick question,... you aren't from Belgium aswell aren't ya ? and your first name is Ben by any chance ?  :?  


Scolo_lord said:


> Pïcture 1 is Scolopendra '' Robusta'' Gigantea.
> En for my its al the same spieces.


yep,... all pictures are of the same pede,... which common name is "gigantea robusta"  


Scolo_lord said:


> En for my dis is a Scolopendra angulata
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I can't see any ringfurrow on the 1st tergite on that one,... making it hard to beleive it's a Sc.angulata, i rather think that one is a Scolopendra alternans,.. which are quite common on the Caribbeans


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## bistrobob85 (Dec 28, 2006)

Very interesting thread, Steven... It would be interesting to bring together the initial description of the two species to see if they are the same... 

 phil.


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## Steven (Dec 29, 2006)

bistrobob85 said:


> Very interesting thread, Steven... It would be interesting to bring together the initial description of the two species to see if they are the same...


thanx phil,
but what 2 specie are ya talking about ? scolopendra robusta and :?
as far as i know "gigantea robusta" never has been a specie,... just a common name, introduced (unintentionally by Karl Sandefer's little scolopendra-guide)


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## bistrobob85 (Dec 29, 2006)

Well i would have said sc.g.robusta and sc.a.angulata but i didnt know that robustas were never really IDed as a specie... Wow, there really seems to be a big lack of understanding in the south american centipedes, if only we could get more species in the hobby...

 phil.


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## cacoseraph (Dec 29, 2006)

bistrobob85 said:


> Well i would have said sc.g.robusta and sc.a.angulata but i didnt know that robustas were never really IDed as a specie... Wow, there really seems to be a big lack of understanding in the south american centipedes, if only we could get more species in the hobby...
> 
> phil.


i hope steven will correct me if i am wrong... but i believe there is a description for S. gigantea, a description for S. robusta, and a description for S. angulata... what Steven is saying is that there was enver a description for "Scolopendra gigantea robusta", the robusta subspecies of gigantea species


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## Steven (Dec 30, 2006)

that's correct, caco


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## Greg Pelka (Dec 30, 2006)

Steven, as You proposed I asked a specialist
I wrote to Dr Rowland Shelley with asking did He know something more about _Scolopendra sp._ [Ecquador] called S. gigantea robusta and if it could be a _S. angulata_ specie. 

I wrote:


> (...)In trade available is  one specie I am very interested in - Scoloepndra sp. [Ecuador] called in common Scolopenda gigantea robusta what is completly wrong by the way. Paramaters from Attmes work with
> antenna segments count and Yours with distibution matches to
> description of a Scolopendra angulata. Have you ever had a contact
> with this specie? For me it is quite interesting subjet.


And Mr. Shelley answear:


> Scolopendra gigantea robusta is, as you say, completely wrong.  The trinomial was validly but accidentally proposed, and I recently officially discarded it in a formal publication.  S. angulata is a totally different chilopod, but I am not very familiar with this species; all New World Scolopendras look very much alike superficially to non-specialists..(...)


So.. I think it`s not a S. angulata  :wall: 

Regards
Greg


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## Steven (Dec 30, 2006)

justGreg said:


> So.. I think it`s not a S. angulata  :wall:


why not ? :?


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## Greg Pelka (Dec 30, 2006)

Dr Rowland Shelley:


> S. angulata is a totally different chilopod


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## Steven (Dec 30, 2006)

correct me if i'm wrong, :?  but i think he wants to say that Sc.angulata is totally different then Sc.gigantea or Sc.robusta, Or did you send him a preserved death specimen ("gigantea robusta") to examine ?



after the hollidays i'll post Dr.Shelley some pictures with the keys that i've followed to end up at Sc.angulata angulata,... maybe he can correct me then if it's wrongly ID'ed or not.


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## cacoseraph (Dec 30, 2006)

i would agree more with Steven's interpretation of what Dr. Shelley said. i sounds like he meant he knows that angulata is a different centipede but hasn't worked with it or studied it to answer questions about it right away.


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## Greg Pelka (Dec 30, 2006)

I aked him about Scolopendra sp. "gigantea robusta" and as I understand him he answear that he discard is as a subspecie of S. gigantea (so I think he should have some specimens of "gigantea robusta") and he write it is completly different than S. angulata specie. I think if Scolopendra sp. 'gigante robusta' was a subspecie of S. angulata he would write about it in this publication he`s writing about.
Am I correct?

Greg


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## Steven (Dec 31, 2006)

justGreg said:


> I aked him about Scolopendra sp. "gigantea robusta" and as I understand him he answear that he discard is as a subspecie of S. gigantea


that's correct, i don't know if you have the full-copy of the recent publication of Dr.R.Shelley "chronological catalog of the New World species of Scolopendra" ? in case you have, go to page 26 (Sc.robusta), there he explains how the wrongly subspecie-status of Sc.robusta within Sc.gigantea has been introduced and also that's now officially been discarded.
It's also mentioned on the last phrase on page 1 and above on page 2 on this 
abstract of the full-publication


justGreg said:


> (so I think he should have some specimens of "gigantea robusta")


mmm not necessary tmo
He only has brought back Sc.robusta to its original full specific status as it was recognized by Bücherl (1939,1942). and deleted Colombia from its distribution list. 


justGreg said:


> and he write it is completly different than S. angulata specie.


quite sure he's talking about Sc.robusta beeing totally different then Sc.angulata


justGreg said:


> I think if Scolopendra sp. 'gigante robusta' was a subspecie of S. angulata he would write about it in this publication he`s writing about.


If you're talking about the publication "catalog of the New World species" he only mentioned "gigantea robusta" on page1-2 and page26 (as i said above) to clarify the status of Sc.robusta from subspecie to specie.
I also can't see why it should be mentioned in description of other specie ?
on page 9 (about Sc.angulata):
it's stated: *angulata *current rank and status = valid specie,... Bücherl (1974) devided S.angulata into 3 subspecies, 2 of which were recognized by Schileyko (2002).


a revision with illustrated keys and new descriptions of South American specie would be nice for the future 


for now,...
best wishes for 2007 to all
Scolopendra-heads


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## bistrobob85 (Dec 31, 2006)

Lets hope for some nice scolopendrid publication in the next year... Does anyone have the actual FULL publication of Shelley's paper?

 phil.


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## Scolo_lord (Jan 5, 2007)

Steven said:


> Hey Scolo_lord,... just a quick question,... you aren't from Belgium aswell aren't ya ? and your first name is Ben by any chance ?  :?
> 
> yep,... all pictures are of the same pede,... which common name is "gigantea robusta"
> 
> I can't see any ringfurrow on the 1st tergite on that one,... making it hard to beleive it's a Sc.angulata, i rather think that one is a Scolopendra alternans,.. which are quite common on the Caribbeans


Yes
Tis dezelfde


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## peterbourbon (Jun 10, 2008)

Hi,

after years of hard identification between Steven and Shelley (thanks for the excellent work!), Steven and me actually tried to shuffle the cards again and made a hard way to re-identifiy and take a closer look at the details.

For me - personally - there is only one specie left at last.
This must be a *Scolopendra galapagoensis*.

And -yes- it was just one inch away from sc. gigantea. 
At least the spines on 21st tergites' margin and 3+3 *big* teeth (somehow separated into different smaller ones) made the final direction.

Else i'd say someone has to introduce a new specie or say it's a variety of sc. galapagoensis.

It's definitely no sc. angulata btw.!

I personally call it "scolopendra galapagoensis var. galapagoensis" to distinguish it from the other darker sc. galapagoensis (Steven owns two specimen) which seems to be galapagoensis as well.

Nevertheless: I'm still waiting for a passionate centipede-specialized myriapodologist to compare more species and say this is 100% sure.
Perhaps in year 3020?

Regards
Turgut


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## bistrobob85 (Jun 11, 2008)

peterbourbon said:


> .
> Nevertheless: I'm still waiting for a passionate centipede-specialized myriapodologist to compare more species and say this is 100% sure.
> Perhaps in year 3020?


Hehe, give me a few more years of University and some nice specimens to work on and i'm on it . 

 phil.


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## FUBO (Oct 8, 2008)

秘鲁巨人颜色也很正嘛~~
不过还是喜欢加拉~~


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## peterbourbon (Oct 8, 2008)

FUBO said:


> 秘鲁巨人颜色也很正嘛~~
> 不过还是喜欢加拉~~


Thanks a lot for the kiss. Love you, too!  

Regards
Turgut


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## krabbelspinne (Oct 8, 2008)

对不起 , 我的 中文不好 .

As I understand Fubo, he says that the colouration of the "Peru Giant" is also very important. And he is happy to add this information.

(Sorry for my poor chinese...)


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