# Orb Weaver Research



## CalPolyResearch (May 18, 2012)

Hello Spider People 

I'm a student at Cal Poly Pomona in California, and will be doing research with orb weaver spiders. I've been learning a lot from past threads, but have a question or two on keeping them as research specimens. This is my first year on the team, and I've been told that they have had trouble keeping orb weavers over the past 5 years. Most of our spiders are collected over the summer, and only last approximately 2-3 months in captivity. As a spider lover, I hope to increase the captive lifespan of our spiders so we don't have to keep removing specimens from the area.

Throughout the week, we have to gather silk from the spiders. I believe this added stress is lowering their lifespan. We collect silk by placing the spider on wooden frame, get them to repel down, and spin the frame. The silk is rolled onto the frame much like you would wind up the string of a kite. How much handling is going to be too much stress on the spiders?

My idea was to collect at least 4 orb weavers (non-species specific), and collect silk from each specimen once a month.

As far as enclosures and care, the current team does not believe it is even possible to keep the orb weavers longer than 2 months. Therefore, our current spider is in a tupperware container and was fed approximately 3 weeks ago. Depending on the species, I would like to keep each specimen in a large, clear plastic storage bin with dirt substrate, and a Y-frame of sticks to build a substantial web on. I've had experience with wolf and jumping spiders when I was younger, but never web building spiders. Any advice would be much appreciated. Thank you.


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## The Snark (May 18, 2012)

Purely from observation, disturbing the web of most Nephila results in her abandoning it. 2 or 3 serious damaging effects and she is gone. But this is something you need to study and speaking for myself, I would be delighted and enthralled to read any data you come up with. Best of luck!


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## Ciphor (May 18, 2012)

Hi there!

First, I have personally had specimens last 18+ months in captivity, so they are definitely capable.

Most orb weavers consume their silk before they remake their web, and most remake their web every night! Taking silk from orb weavers that they do not recycle by consumption will definitely have a huge impact on their lifespan. It sounds like you are also super stressing them by keeping them in Tupperware. Orb weavers are 100% arboreal (living off the ground) so dirt, etc. is not needed to keep them happy in captivity. Space, is the most important thing, which is tough, because medium sized orb weavers require over a foot of space to build their webs. If you do not give these spiders the opportunity to construct a web, it will significantly reduce its life span through stress, as it struggles to crawl around in the tupperware and find a way "up". They are not good at walking on flat surfaces or the ground, think, "Fish out of water"

Over feeding impacts lifespan, but this does not sound at all like your biggest concern. Please note, they will not eat or attack something unless they are in a web. 
High temperatures increase the spiders BMR & RMR, which results in a negative impact on lifespan. The cooler you can keep them without killing them, the better.

As for suggestions on housing, I would honestly recommend you catch and release so you dont have to house (effectively making their home outside). If that is not an option, and you need to keep them in lab, you will have to either accept the drastically short lifespans by keeping them as is, or invest in some large enclosures.

Reactions: Like 2 | Informative 1


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## CalPolyResearch (May 19, 2012)

Very interesting information. There have been 9 students involved with increasing the lifespan of the spiders, but all have failed.

The spider silk team I'm involved with consists of two different areas. My group will be testing the mechanical properties of the silk, and the other group is investigating spider silk as a medium for nerve reconstruction.

There's a bamboo forest behind our campus that we collect the spiders from. I will be purchasing some large plastic storage bins (approx 30+ gallons), and attempt to keep some orb weavers outside of testing. I'll keep you guys posted  Thank you for the info, and if you have anything else, please post.


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## The Snark (May 19, 2012)

At a forest temple we had about 50 Nephila that returned/rebuilt every year. Their primary living area where they thrived was an open beam ceiling area of a structure that was without walls on 2 sides yet protected the spiders from winds and rain. The entire area was in thick forest so the temperature was always moderate. The monks also treated the place as an animal sanctuary and strongly frowned upon anyone who disturbed the webs. This was, in all my years in S.E. Asia, by far the most dense orb weaver populated location and the one where they would always reliably return. When there was some construction in the area and that protective shelter torn down the nephila vanished and never returned. Some smaller orb weavers, 5 or 6, make their homes in the ceiling of a new structure that was built but the Neph are gone. 

What Ciphor said all rings bells. Their web is, in a sense, their food reserve, as much as fat is on a mammal. So it seems that, keeping them in a high stress environment and disrupting their webbing will almost certainly cause problems. It seems to me that, before testing and experimentation is done, establish a thriving population and learn their desired environment. Make it a cooperative effort, rather than a one shot and toss out the 'lab rats'.

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## CalPolyResearch (May 20, 2012)

Is it possible to pull a spider from its web without harming the web? I would see it being a big problem if the spider had to rebuild its web every time we extracted silk from it. I'm looking to order some argiopes in the near future for a test run.


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## The Snark (May 20, 2012)

I'm replying here only from personal experience. Possible to pull an orb weaver from it's web. It is quite easy while causing only minor damage if any. Also, the web receives minor damage all the time which the spider usually repairs. What is missing in this equation is an orb weaver's orientation to the world. It relies entirely on it's claws for mobility, more so than any other spider. Outside of a web on a flat surface is very much analogous to a human living in a web of ropes: can be done but requires an extraordinary amount of effort and concentration. It's normal position is head down on the vertical surface of the web, in the center, using the web as a sensory mechanism. It doesn't even have the option of grasping one of several web strands as a cobweb weaver. It's normal world being 2 dimensional. Thus, orb weavers get stressed out very easily with their web being such an integral part of their life.

As Ciphor mention, orb weavers commonly consume and rebuild their webs on a regular basis. They also are usually fastidious and remove debris from the web very regularly. What I feel this all boils down to is keeping a healthy orb weaver means assuring it has a safe, protected web.

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## Ciphor (May 21, 2012)

CalPolyResearch said:


> Is it possible to pull a spider from its web without harming the web? I would see it being a big problem if the spider had to rebuild its web every time we extracted silk from it. I'm looking to order some argiopes in the near future for a test run.


Most species, yes. They can be easily removed without damaging web. Simply touch the spinnerets of the spider while it is hanging in its web and it will drop to the ground. I usually just place my container under the spider, touch its butt, then catch it as it is falling.

Now there are 2 exceptions to this. 1, the spider may run to a retreat instead of falling. However, you can simply touch it again in its retreat and it should drop. 2, _Argiope spp._ _Argiope_ have different defensive behaviors then most orb weavers. When disturbed, rather then drop or run to a retreat, they will often swing violently back and forth in their web, much like cellar spiders. What I used to do, was touch them once to get them swinging, then hold my finger up to them so as they swing they keep smacking into your finger, they will usually run to retreat, where you can collect without damaging web.


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## CalPolyResearch (May 22, 2012)

I'm thinking that as long as we have enough spiders, keep their webs intact, and only collect small amounts of silk at a time- the spiders should be able to last relatively longer than our past specimens.


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## The Snark (May 22, 2012)

I'm curious. Why orb weavers? There has already been done some extensive research in the Latrodectus webbing and Latro's are much more tolerant of their webs getting whomped. If memory serves, the Latro web was extensively tested for tensile strength and was tested, and as I understand it, even used, in some telescopes. I think Bushnell laboratories did some testing way back when.

It is my understanding, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, that the Nomex-Aramid polymers came about from molecular studies of spider webs, especially that of the Latrodectus. Nope. I'm wrong. It was Nephila Clavipes.


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## CalPolyResearch (May 23, 2012)

You are right on the money, Snark! The original plan for the team was to do research on the tensile properties of Nephila Clavipes ("golden silk orb weavers') and brown widow silk in nerve growth. However, the spiders were difficult to get a hole of and had to be ordered from Arizona. Because of the difficulty in obtaining spiders, the team decided to just find any orb weaver on campus. Ideally we would like to do testing on Nephs, but it's just not in our budget.


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## The Snark (May 23, 2012)

CalPolyResearch said:


> You are right on the money, Snark! The original plan for the team was to do research on the tensile properties of Nephila Clavipes ("golden silk orb weavers') and brown widow silk in nerve growth. However, the spiders were difficult to get a hole of and had to be ordered from Arizona. Because of the difficulty in obtaining spiders, the team decided to just find any orb weaver on campus. Ideally we would like to do testing on Nephs, but it's just not in our budget.


OUCH. Any orb weaver you find is going to leave your team with a LOT of variables. Ponderables in any hypothesis. Your tensile strength will be challenged from word go as the average argiope or similar has a far weaker web than a Neph. (There your team is, wandering around randomly asking  people, 'Say! You wouldn't happen to have a few Darwin's Bark Spiders you could spare?') Then, as an example, if you are using argiope argentata, they have 5 different kinds of silk, each with unique properties.

I wish you all the best of luck. You would be welcome to the argiope we have in our garage. I've spent the past week trying to explain to it to not connect the carport pillar, the trash can lid and the jeep together each night. Then this morning I find 4 baby orb webs, one between each spoke of the steering wheel and one attaching the steering wheel to the gear shifter. Like, 'Guys! This is getting ridiculous!'. ::

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## CalPolyResearch (May 23, 2012)

Yeah. We're well aware of the variables we'll encounter with different spiders, but right now we're at the stage where we're running through the process. Once the process is down, and the data is sorted, we'll move on to the spiders of interest. (Run through testing with "free" spiders, then do hardcore testing on "expensive" spiders) The team is all on our own in terms of what has to be done next. The professor just gives us the idea, and we carry it out with some guidance.

Since Nephs are such large webbers, are they difficult to keep in captivity? I've seen them for sale, and they're not too expensive.


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## The Snark (May 23, 2012)

There was a recent thread on keeping orb weavers. IMHO, they be a pain in the tukus to keep. They love a large area and are pretty darned fussy about encroachment. Let's hope the more educated can weigh in on this as it would be neatospiffy if a side effect of your research is successful Neph keeping (and even breeding).


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## CalPolyResearch (May 24, 2012)

Just did a whole lot of reading on Nephs, and it's not in our budget to keep them. We just don't have the room. We could put them in our on campus greenhouse, but we've already talked to them about keeping spiders in there... They're not fans of the idea. I believe we'll have to keep smaller weavers, get acquainted with the techniques and data. Then we can move to Nephs. Buy a few, try to keep them happy, and hopefully we'll have some decent data to show you folks


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## CalPolyResearch (Jan 31, 2013)

UPDATE:
Hello again. This school year is going great. We're having great success with the orb weaver Araneus Gemma. I even created a care sheet for these beautiful spiders. I'm hoping to contribute some care information by the end of the year. Keep warm everyone.

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