# Cage size for chinese rat king snake



## Deliverme314 (Jan 22, 2005)

thinking about buying a four foot "beauty rat king snake" Elaphe taeniura.  Which is top the best of my knowledge the smallest of the subspecies and is mature at above 4 feet.  I know that others in the genus can get much longer.  This is a fairly thin snake but I dont know if that has to much consideration on cage size... anywho... if someone could give me their expertice as to the cage size I will be needing if I do decide to buy this guy.

Thanks!


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## Crotalus (Jan 22, 2005)

Deliverme314 said:
			
		

> thinking about buying a four foot "beauty rat king snake" Elaphe taeniura.  Which is top the best of my knowledge the smallest of the subspecies and is mature at above 4 feet.  I know that others in the genus can get much longer.  This is a fairly thin snake but I dont know if that has to much consideration on cage size... anywho... if someone could give me their expertice as to the cage size I will be needing if I do decide to buy this guy.
> 
> Thanks!


This is a active snake so the more room you give the better. But cage length should be atleast the same as the snakes is long, wide and height not under half the snakes lenght. 

/Lelle


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## Deliverme314 (Jan 22, 2005)

sooo at least a 90 gallon?!  Yikes... no room for that.  Thanks for the heads up.

I have no snake experience and have fallen for elaphe's.  Is there another really pretty, docile, fairly easy to obtain elaphe that doesnt require as much room?

Thanks again.


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## Crotalus (Jan 22, 2005)

Deliverme314 said:
			
		

> sooo at least a 90 gallon?!  Yikes... no room for that.  Thanks for the heads up.
> 
> I have no snake experience and have fallen for elaphe's.  Is there another really pretty, docile, fairly easy to obtain elaphe that doesnt require as much room?
> 
> Thanks again.


Why not a corn? Easy and a bit smaller snakes. 
ok they are Pantherophis now.... but i refuse to use that genus name ;-)

/Lelle


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## pitbulllady (Jan 22, 2005)

First: a Chinese King Rat Snake(Ptyas carinata, though some still list it as Elaphe carinata)and a Chinese Beauty Snake are NOT the same thing-VERY different in terms of personality!  King Rats, which are also called "Stinking Goddesses" for their propensity to emit musk, are often quite prone to biting, and are cannabilistic, hence the "King" part.  I had a big male several years ago, and while not as aggressive as most, he was a very nervous snake.  He never constricted prey items, as a true Rat snake will(most Rat snakes will constrict even frozen/thawed prey).
By contrast, my Taiwan Beauties are some of the calmest, gentlest snakes I've ever owned.  My male is nearly nine feet, and very thick, yet as gentle as the gentlest Corn Snake!  I can feed both of them from my fingers without them striking or grabbing at the rats(pre-killed)and neither has ever attempted to musk, bite, or show any defensive behavior.  I keep them both in a 75-gallon enclosure.  They are not particularily active snakes, no more so than Black Rats and less so than their Blue Beauty cousins.  I absolutely love the Beauties and would recommend them as an ideal beginner snake for someone who wants something that gets big, but is easy to care for.  They breed easily, too-mine will readily breed and produce a clutch without cooling, and do quite well at normal room temp, without any auxilliary heat source.  I just can't really think of anything negative to say about this species, other than the fact that they do get large, and if obtaining a large enough cage, or large rats, is a problem, this would be the only difficulty I can see in keeping them.

pitbulllady


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## Crotalus (Jan 22, 2005)

pitbulllady,

As far as can see he writes the scientific name Elaphe taeniura in his original post. Whatever the common name is are less important, I always go by the scientific name.

And speaking of asian ratsnakes, I allways wanted to keep Ptyas sp.
Large mean and viscious... can it be better? LOL

/Lelle


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## Deliverme314 (Jan 22, 2005)

What is the appropriate common name?

I generally try to use Scientific names when referring to anything be it invert, reptile, plant whatever...


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## pitbulllady (Jan 23, 2005)

Elapha taeniura is the correct scientific name; there are several subspecies, sold in the pet trade as "Taiwan Beauties", "Chinese Beauties", "Yunan Beauties", "Vietnamese Blue Beauties", etc.  Like I posted earlier, the "King Rat Snake" is a different genus altogether.  Even though they were long grouped with the Elaphe, they are quite different.  For one, they do not constrict prey, but simply grab it and overpower it by biting.  They are fast-moving, often-aggressive snakes-like a Coachwhip on steroids!  The King Rat also has slightly oval pupils, which are oriented horizontally, unlike the round pupils of the Elapha genus.  It probably compares best to the Spilotes, or Tiger Rat snake, of Latin America, in terms of temperament, but it will eat other snakes, also.  The Ptayas genus would be a good starter snake for someone considering Elapids(Cobras, Mambas, etc.)later on, since they are similar in personalities and speed.  The Chinese King Rat is the only one I'm aware of being bred in the US; the others are pretty difficult to find here.  The Elaphe taeniura complex, though, are becoming quite common in captivity in this country, and will likely become more popular as people find out what easy keepers they are.

pitbulllady


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## Deliverme314 (Jan 24, 2005)

When referring to E.Taeniura; how much will they take advantage of things to climb on?  Will they use a tall tank or a standard 18" tall tank is suffiicient?  And I dont imagine that they are communal (maybe they are... I obviously dont know) but given say a 6 ft tank with stuff to climb on and a good depth of say 36" and a fair height (assuming they like they height and climbing) coupled with hide spots... would  a female be ok with a male in permanent living situation?  Or would she be pestered by him... 

I feel like if I am going to dedicate all this space that I sort of want more than one... I know that probably sounds silly.


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## pitbulllady (Jan 25, 2005)

Mine seem very content piling up with one another(I keep the pair together with no problems as long as I watch them closely at feeding time) and don't really try to climb.  My male is too heavy for climbing except on some really sturdy limbs, anyway.  I had a hidebox for them, but they never used it, so I removed it.  They are very calm, laid-back snakes.  They just aren't phased by anything.  I can feed them by hand, without tongs, and they will just take the food item(pre-killed or f/t)from my hands without striking; not many of my snakes are like that!
A six-foot long tank with a 36" depth should certainly be very sufficient.  It wouldnt' hurt to put in something to climb on, but mine don't show any inclination to do so, nor to hide.

pitbulllady


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## chris73 (Jan 25, 2005)

If you have no experience, this animal may be a bad choice. The corn that Crotalus suggested is a good idea. I am a big fan of Ball Pythons for beginners and well as most Milk Snakes and sone Kingsnakes. A California King would be a super choice in my opinion.


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## Deliverme314 (Jan 25, 2005)

chris73 said:
			
		

> If you have no experience, this animal may be a bad choice. The corn that Crotalus suggested is a good idea. I am a big fan of Ball Pythons for beginners and well as most Milk Snakes and sone Kingsnakes. A California King would be a super choice in my opinion.



hmmmm

I have done ALOT of research.  ALOT.  And it seems to me that ball pythons are way more demanding and can be problematic to get feeding etc.  The Elaphe Taeniura have next to no demands and are incredibly hardy and eat well immediatley with almost no exception.  I am not sure what you are basing this on.  The fact that everyone starts with a BP, corn or rosy boa?  Its just that based on what I have read they are a great starter species... 

Pitbulllady,
Would you suggest them as a starter snake?


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## chris73 (Jan 25, 2005)

Deliverme314 said:
			
		

> hmmmm
> 
> I have done ALOT of research.  ALOT.  And it seems to me that ball pythons are way more demanding and can be problematic to get feeding etc.  The Elaphe Taeniura have next to no demands and are incredibly hardy and eat well immediatley with almost no exception.  I am not sure what you are basing this on.  The fact that everyone starts with a BP, corn or rosy boa?  Its just that based on what I have read they are a great starter species...
> 
> ...


Ball's are only problematic in my experience when someone foolishly purchases a WC specimen and only those people will warn you away from one. As far as what I base this on? That would be my personal 15 years in keeping and breeding reptiles and amphibians including nearly all popular Python species and many colubrids. My Balls are gravid right now as a matter of fact. Now you know what I am basing this on. Not only research but applied practical knowledge and experience. Good luck in your endevors.


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## Deliverme314 (Jan 25, 2005)

chris73 said:
			
		

> Ball's are only problematic in my experience when someone foolishly purchases a WC specimen and only those people will warn you away from one. As far as what I base this on? That would be my personal 15 years in keeping and breeding reptiles and amphibians including nearly all popular Python species and many colubrids. My Balls are gravid right now as a matter of fact. Now you know what I am basing this on. Not only research but applied practical knowledge and experience. Good luck in your endevors.


You seem to feel that I was antagonistic.  I apologize if I came across that way.  Its simply that you offered that statement and didnt give any real back up and it was in direct contradiction with what I have read.  You still have not told me why an E.Taeniura would not be a good beginner species.


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## chris73 (Jan 25, 2005)

Deliverme314 said:
			
		

> You seem to feel that I was antagonistic.  I apologize if I came across that way.  Its simply that you offered that statement and didnt give any real back up and it was in direct contradiction with what I have read.  You still have not told me why an E.Taeniura would not be a good beginner species.


Fair enough. Here goes: In my experience, all Rat Snakes (including the revered Corns) are skittish and will bite as hatchlings. This can go on for well over a year if the keeper is not experienced in taming or willing to devote a MINIMUM of 3 handling sessions per week which in turn can be detrimental to a hatchling snakes survival rate by overly stressing the animal. I have my Creamsicle Corn clutch of '04 right now. Of the 8 animals left unsold, only 1 is friendly. Now, your choice of an E.Taeniura (if the animal is labeled right at the store) is really no different than a corn, except for the fact that it can (although rarely) attain sizes of 8ft in length (a Google search will probably confirm this if you don't believe me) which puts a major damper on your cage size plans. This animal would require a 6ft. enclosure with room to climb as most (esp. Asian) Ratsnakes are avid climbers and I personally feel that this behavior is necessary for the animals general well being. Many keepers will argue this point. Additionally, if this animal is WC, it will be extremlely difficult to get it feeding on common feeder rodents as it's wild diet is quite different. Simply put, CB Balls and Kings/Milks are easy, attractive, and seldom bite (I've NEVER been bitten by a Ball Python, but it does happen if you don't know the warning signs). Their care requirements are relatively simple and their size is extremely managable. Hope that helps.

THIS IS MY OPINION BASED ON EXPERIENCE - PLEASE DON'T FLAME ME IF YOU DON'T AGREE!  :clap:


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## Deliverme314 (Jan 25, 2005)

Sooo you read really carefully on E.Taeniura apparently... as they get to 4-5 feet.  Other elaphes get larger E.T.Taeniura does not


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## chris73 (Jan 25, 2005)

Ok genius, good luck with it.


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## Deliverme314 (Jan 25, 2005)

"E. taeniura is a great ratsnake for the beginner of Asian Elaphe species, they tame easy and will make great pets. There is a large variance in size with the different subspecies. While most specimens of E. t. taeniura and E. t. yunnanensis average around 5ft., specimens of E. t. ridleyi and E. t. friesi may reach as much as 8ft or more. I've heard of an E. t. ridleyi that was just under 10ft(!), and I've also heard of several reports of the "Blue Beauty" variety that have been in the 8ft plus range"


You were probably visiting ratsnakes.com same as I have

That is an excerpt.  I think I will take this guy's word over you.


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## chris73 (Jan 25, 2005)

Why are you attitudinal? I was trying to help you when you asked for my opinion. I did not visit ratsnake.com, BTW, this was from my own research and a dealer I buy from that has a 7.5 ft. specimen. Anyhow, good luck with it. With all your snake experience and internet research, which as everyone knows is ALWAYS 100% accurate I'm SURE you will have a great experience and have the perfect pet snake. HAHAHAHA! LOL!  ;P


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