# Keeping Heteropoda sp. as a first true spider species?



## antinous (Apr 21, 2015)

Like the title states, I'm becoming interested in the wandering/huntsman spiders and I'm in no way shape or form going to jump straight into the Phoneutria sp., not sure I even will tbh, but I also stumbled upon the Heteropoda genus. I was wondering, for those who keep them, what are the set ups like (set ups, what kind of enclosures, temp., etc.)? I've never kept a true spider and was wondering what are the differences in keeping them compared to tarantulas. Also, commenting on the disposition of the animal is a plus! Thanks!


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## RJ2 (Apr 21, 2015)

check out  Cupiennius, I picked up some C.coccineus a few months ago at tinley expo.  I keep them in dram bottles of the appropriate size, with plenty of ventilation on the top and sides. Some substrate, cork, and fake plants. 
I keep mine at room temps. They don'tseem to get spooked very easily, and will sit pretty still. They feed very well, and seem to like larger prey items. mine are about 1"

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## Hanska (Apr 21, 2015)

Cupiennius or Heteropoda venatoria make good firsts for wandering spider and huntsmen. I have several C.salei and just love them. H.venatorias are, like any huntsman, fast as heck but nothing too supernatural.
As for care both are very tolerant and I've had no issues with room temps even with slings. Just something to climb and substrate thats kept a bit moist for humidity and they do fine.

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## antinous (Apr 21, 2015)

Thanks for the input!

Is there anything that differs in their care opposed to tarantulas? Do you have to feed more frequently? Or can they survive longer w/o being fed like T's? Do you always have to water dish too?


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## Hanska (Apr 21, 2015)

For most trues I keep including those I mentioned I don't have any water dishes. I just drop some water along their cork to the substrate. They drink from the sub or from the cork(seen both). I don't keep book of my feedings, I just look how they look but I do feed them more often.
Other than that I can't compare them to Ts as I mostly keep NW terrestrials and all that running in 3 dimentions is normal just from true spiders and some T slings. What I CAN tell is that trues are far more interesting and even more addicting.

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## The Snark (Apr 21, 2015)

Venatoria, the sewer rat of spiders. Common, durable, professionally antisocial (with humans) , impressive size and best of all, when it get's loose, inevitable, it's harmless. Their only requirement, preference, is they like to lurk on walls. This is advantageous as you can set up your terrarium so they are highly visible and since they always like to point face down it gives you a 1/100th of a second more time to persuade them to not zoom out of the enclosure.

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## antinous (Apr 21, 2015)

Hanska said:


> For most trues I keep including those I mentioned I don't have any water dishes. I just drop some water along their cork to the substrate. They drink from the sub or from the cork(seen both). I don't keep book of my feedings, I just look how they look but I do feed them more often.
> Other than that I can't compare them to Ts as I mostly keep NW terrestrials and all that running in 3 dimentions is normal just from true spiders and some T slings. What I CAN tell is that trues are far more interesting and even more addicting.


Okay, thanks! What kind of enclosures do you keep them in?



The Snark said:


> Venatoria, the sewer rat of spiders. Common, durable, professionally antisocial (with humans) , impressive size and best of all, when it get's loose, inevitable, it's harmless. Their only requirement, preference, is they like to lurk on walls. This is advantageous as you can set up your terrarium so they are highly visible and since they always like to point face down it gives you a 1/100th of a second more time to persuade them to not zoom out of the enclosure.


Haha, I won't be planning to handle them at all so the antisocial aspect is fine with me. What do you house them in? I'll probably be getting these along with a few other species, and was wondering if they can be housed similar to arboreal tarantulas (Gallon gars).

I've also heard they're fine with room temp, all Heteropoda sp., (63-68 degrees), even though they always won't be kept at those times, I was wondering if it would be fine as I do travel sometimes (weeks to months at a time) and when I'm gone my friends/family tend to turn down the heat.


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## Hanska (Apr 21, 2015)

The Snark said:


> Venatoria, the sewer rat of spiders. Common, durable, professionally antisocial (with humans) , impressive size and best of all, when it get's loose, inevitable, it's harmless. Their only requirement, preference, is they like to lurk on walls. This is advantageous as you can set up your terrarium so they are highly visible and since they always like to point face down it gives you a 1/100th of a second more time to persuade them to not zoom out of the enclosure.


I almost said that rat thing, it's just what they are. The rest is also true. They are always face down but it doesn't slow them down if they go up. I had a huge tank for my mom and a system of "man make tool, ugh!" to ensure it won't get out when doing stuff. It never got out as I did anything, including cupping her twice to get her sac. If not for that ugh-tool, I'd have them alover my house by now. 

All-in-all, you'll love them. But when people tell you they're fast, they are.

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## antinous (Apr 21, 2015)

Hanska said:


> I almost said that rat thing, it's just what they are. The rest is also true. They are always face down but it doesn't slow them down if they go up. I had a huge tank for my mom and a system of "man make tool, ugh!" to ensure it won't get out when doing stuff. It never got out as I did anything, including cupping her twice to get her sac. If not for that ugh-tool, I'd have them alover my house by now.
> 
> All-in-all, you'll love them. But when people tell you they're fast, they are.


Thanks! I'm also thinking about keeping other specie such as H. sp Cameroon Goliath and H. tetrica and was wondering if their care would be the same?


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## pannaking22 (Apr 21, 2015)

What Hanska said, and Snark definitely hit the nail on the head when it comes to venatoria. I keep all mine like I keep arboreal T's (think Avics). More vertical space, couple things to climb on/maybe hide in and occasional food and misting. I have curved pieces if bark in my enclosures that they really seem to enjoy. They can go underneath and feel safe or they can hang on the more visible side if they feel like it. The curved bark also seems to deter the urge to escape (most of the time) so it's a little easier to feed/water. 

Hanska, mind posting some pics of your "ugh-tool"?


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## The Snark (Apr 22, 2015)

The only thing I can think of to add with Venatoria is they like it warm. I'd guess 60F as the rock bottom of the range and up over 100 they are still happy campers. As for moisture, the sewer rat description fits aptly. Around here they populate the sewers and drains and are even quite capable of running full tilt through shallow puddles. Their only requirement moisture wise is somewhere up on a wall or tree where they can get dried out so molting doesn't become a problem. (Kept in damp conditions and unable to get dry the molts come off in pieces and can cost the animal a leg or two. During the ever damp middle of rainy season it's common to see them missing a few legs.)


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## klawfran3 (Apr 22, 2015)

The Snark said:


> The only thing I can think of to add with Venatoria is they like it warm. I'd guess 60F as the rock bottom of the range and up over 100 they are still happy campers. As for moisture, the sewer rat description fits aptly. Around here they populate the sewers and drains and are even quite capable of running full tilt through shallow puddles. Their only requirement moisture wise is somewhere up on a wall or tree where they can get dried out so molting doesn't become a problem. (Kept in damp conditions and unable to get dry the molts come off in pieces and can cost the animal a leg or two. During the ever damp middle of rainy season it's common to see them missing a few legs.)


 So what you are saying is that these things are nigh- indestructable? Those temperature ranges are absolutely insane. Where would they rate on the speed scale, too? I have psalmos, chilobrachys, and some other old worlds. And speed comparison there? Are they tappy fast?


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## Hanska (Apr 22, 2015)

klawfran3 said:


> So what you are saying is that these things are nigh- indestructable? Those temperature ranges are absolutely insane. Where would they rate on the speed scale, too? I have psalmos, chilobrachys, and some other old worlds. And speed comparison there? Are they tappy fast?


When I separated my slings(1/6") one ran 6-8" before my brain realized it started to move.

I don't have the experience to compare them to OWs but I've heard several times that these "can run laps around pokies".


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## pannaking22 (Apr 22, 2015)

klawfran3 said:


> So what you are saying is that these things are nigh- indestructable? Those temperature ranges are absolutely insane. Where would they rate on the speed scale, too? I have psalmos, chilobrachys, and some other old worlds. And speed comparison there? Are they tappy fast?


They can definitely take a beating. 

They blow my _P. irminia_ out of the water when it comes to speed. Granted, my _irminia_ is lazy and doesn't like to run around much, but she can definitely move when she gets the urge. I haven't kept tappys before, but from what I've seen (through videos and a friend that has one) they're a bit slower than most Heteropoda.


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## klawfran3 (Apr 22, 2015)

pannaking22 said:


> They can definitely take a beating.
> 
> They blow my _P. irminia_ out of the water when it comes to speed. Granted, my _irminia_ is lazy and doesn't like to run around much, but she can definitely move when she gets the urge. I haven't kept tappys before, but from what I've seen (through videos and a friend that has one) they're a bit slower than most Heteropoda.


Looks like I want a heteropoda now hahah. It'll make a good trainer for when I want to work with taps.

Are they commonly sold or will I have to go digging for them? I'm still on a six month chase to find some mesothelae...


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## The Snark (Apr 22, 2015)

There's no doubt Venatoria is a very adaptable successful predator found in warmer climes around the world. Their penchant for lurking, immobile for for much of the daylight hours high up on vertical surfaces helps keep them safe from the many bird varieties found in the tropics. The immobility also helps fool geckos when they are out hunting in the evenings. Speed wise I'd guesstimate bursts of ~3 feet less than a second. Much faster than a gecko can pursue. Adults of course are the fastest and males seem to be a little faster. They are also capable of running 10 to 20 feet between pauses.

Going strictly from observations of various species, the larger spiders like sparassids, phoneutria, ctenids etc., are speed limited entirely by their claws being able to find purchase, relative to their bulk and interia. The splayed tarpals of the Venatoria really helps them out in this regard.

Their frontal eyesight is pretty keen, spotting movement 6 feet away. They are very hypersensitive to vibrations as well with the males using vibration of their abdomen, transmitted into the ground, to attract females.

They certainly aren't the beauty pageant winners with immatures and adult females usually a dirty tan to a dull darkish brown. The males are a lighter tan colored and a bit speckled. I'm sure someone sells them or would offer up wild caughts if there is a market. Let me find those pics...

Adult female with eggsack and hatched kids, ~6 inch leg span


Adult male, ~4-5 inch leg span


What I call cruisers. When the weather starts to warm up these youngsters are all over the house. Very curious and bold.

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## Hanska (Apr 22, 2015)

Wait, wait, wait.... 6"? That's almost twice the size of my female(8cm).


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## The Snark (Apr 22, 2015)

Hanska said:


> Wait, wait, wait.... 6"? That's almost twice the size of my female(8cm).


Measure it for yourself. That's a ~1  cm leg span tyke next to mommy's foot. She's actually closer to 7 inches, maybe near 8. Why does the same species vary so drastically in mature size sometimes? With Venatoria I'd point at it's extreme range adaptability as a place to start.


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## antinous (Apr 22, 2015)

Thanks for the image Snark! Now I'm even more excited to get my spiders haha. 

I really do wish they would live a bit longer tho, 5 years would be better opposed to the 1-3 year range. What do you guys feed your huntsmen? I know people feed crickets, but do you guys feed anything else?


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## pannaking22 (Apr 22, 2015)

My female is floating around 3.5" right now. I'm guessing wild vs captive influences max size since wild spiders have access to a wider variety of food sources and can grab large food sources, as opposed to a more consistent max size prey item in captivity. 

Crickets and roaches are the staples of my huntsman diets once they get big enough. Small slings get flightless fruit flies. I've heard that _venatoria_ are actually roach specialists, but I'm not sure how accurate that is.


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## antinous (Apr 22, 2015)

pannaking22 said:


> My female is floating around 3.5" right now. I'm guessing wild vs captive influences max size since wild spiders have access to a wider variety of food sources and can grab large food sources, as opposed to a more consistent max size prey item in captivity.
> 
> Crickets and roaches are the staples of my huntsman diets once they get big enough. Small slings get flightless fruit flies. I've heard that _venatoria_ are actually roach specialists, but I'm not sure how accurate that is.


That makes sense regarding the size. Wouldn't mind mine getting 5"+ haha

What size roaches can they feed on once they're adults? I'm leaning a bit more towards roaches when they're older just because I feel like they'd be easier to keep than crickets.


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## pannaking22 (Apr 22, 2015)

Pampho85 said:


> That makes sense regarding the size. Wouldn't mind mine getting 5"+ haha
> 
> What size roaches can they feed on once they're adults? I'm leaning a bit more towards roaches when they're older just because I feel like they'd be easier to keep than crickets.


I feed my adults large nymph and adult Turkistan and pallid roaches. Easy to keep, easy to culture and they are nice and active, which always gets the spider's attention (as Snark mentioned before, sparassids are very sensitive to vibrations).


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## The Snark (Apr 23, 2015)

pannaking22 said:


> My female is floating around 3.5" right now. I'm guessing wild vs captive influences max size since wild spiders have access to a wider variety of food sources and can grab large food sources, as opposed to a more consistent max size prey item in captivity.
> 
> Crickets and roaches are the staples of my huntsman diets once they get big enough. Small slings get flightless fruit flies. I've heard that _venatoria_ are actually roach specialists, but I'm not sure how accurate that is.


Let's not forget natural selection, especially in the dog eat dog utter chaos naked warfare of a second growth rainforest. 
Personally I feel people who feed this genus or species or that one is not taking into account a lot of things. As you said, a wide variety of foods, the wider the better. So what do they eat in the wild? Let's approximate with ANY arthropod 1/4 the spiders size or smaller. So on any given feeding day they have a choice of a few hundred million entrees. Crickets of any form are very common as are the roaches but you can safely bet your last drachma that carport beast isn't going to turn down any wriggle that crosses her path. Earthworms? Millipedes? Bees? ???


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## Hanska (Apr 23, 2015)

That makes sense. I remember reading about Ancylometes that were from 5" WC parents but none of the offspring got past 3.5".
I feed mostly turkistan roach but vary the diet with all kinds of flying and crawling stuff I get my hands on.


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## pannaking22 (Apr 23, 2015)

The Snark said:


> Let's not forget natural selection, especially in the dog eat dog utter chaos naked warfare of a second growth rainforest.
> Personally I feel people who feed this genus or species or that one is not taking into account a lot of things. As you said, a wide variety of foods, the wider the better. So what do they eat in the wild? Let's approximate with ANY arthropod 1/4 the spiders size or smaller. So on any given feeding day they have a choice of a few hundred million entrees. Crickets of any form are very common as are the roaches but you can safely bet your last drachma that carport beast isn't going to turn down any wriggle that crosses her path. Earthworms? Millipedes? Bees? ???


Heck, I've even seen pictures of huntsman munching on mantids as big as they are. That's definitely some variety they don't get in captivity. I'd be curious to see what sort of affect gut loading and/or dusting food items with a supplement for captive species would have on size, along with feeding frequency. It's probably a safe bet that in the wild they're mowing down a couple prey items a day (depending on size), whereas in captivity it's up to us when they get fed.


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## NYInsectZoo (Apr 24, 2015)

*huntsman*

I don't know how much WC vs captive bred has to do with size. I am breeding close to 25 species of sparassidae at the moment. I have several different locales of venatoria. The size varies tremendously. Coloraration of females is very similar but does vary in males. I've bred a couple generations of some locales and have not seen that much of a difference in size and growth. I do dust the fruitflies with vitamin powder and bee pollen. Whether that has something to do with it ,I am unsure. H.tetrica is another species that varies a lot in size and coloration depending on the locality where it was collected.

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## The Snark (Apr 24, 2015)

NYInsectZoo said:


> I don't know how much WC vs captive bred has to do with size. I am breeding close to 25 species of sparassidae at the moment. I have several different locales of venatoria. The size varies tremendously. Coloraration of females is very similar but does vary in males. I've bred a couple generations of some locales and have not seen that much of a difference in size and growth. I do dust the fruitflies with vitamin powder and bee pollen. Whether that has something to do with it ,I am unsure. H.tetrica is another species that varies a lot in size and coloration depending on the locality where it was collected.


Any clue or guess why the size varies so greatly? This really puzzles me as I have seen mature Venatoria around here vary nearly 100% in size within a 50 square mile area. But the Nephila I've encountered from Laos through Thailand, Malaysia and Indonesia only vary about 25% within species.


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