# Habitat Too Small? - Blue Death Feigning Beetles



## JessieJ (Aug 7, 2019)

Hello,

My son is turning five soon and loves the insect world.  I decided to start him off with three Blue Death Feigning Beetles that should arrive in a few days.  I opted out of the typical terrarium as I wanted to be a bit creative with it.  So I used a wood and glass terrarium that I added mesh to at the top sides to keep them from climbing out.   Below are the dimensions and of course I'll attach a few photos.  I want to make sure that the size isn't too small before I continue.

Dimensions:
Length: 8 3/16"
Width: 11 7/16"
Height: 14 5/16"

Thanks to whom ever can provide some feedback.


----------



## Jaden Peterson (Aug 7, 2019)

That is a beautiful terrarium! 
I don’t know how big a habitat is needed for blue death feigning beetles, but I have been keeping 8 in a plastic shoebox with sand and hides and they have been doing very well for months and even laying eggs. In the wild they have a large foraging area but I don’t know how necessary that is for their health in captivity. 
I’m new here though so better wait for some others to chime in. Good luck!


----------



## undeaddeaths (Aug 8, 2019)

BDFB's tend to live together in dense groups, in small areas well in captivity.
Considering you're only putting 3 in there that seems like a fine-sized enclosure.
I'd suggest adding more pieces of cork and/or branches to give more areas for them to climb and hide. Try and make use of some of the vertical space.
(EDITED)


----------



## Jaden Peterson (Aug 8, 2019)

undeaddeaths said:


> BDFB's tend to live together in dense groups together in small areas.


I must respectfully disagree with that statement as I have seen these beetles in their natural habitat at night on many occasions usually at least a few hundred yards apart and almost always alone. 
I do however find that they congregate around harvester ant hills (pogonomyrmex species) sometimes. I hypothesize that this is to feed on the debris brought out and dumped by the ants. Which corresponds with the info from this paper (excluding the part about defensive secretions of course): https://academic.oup.com/ee/article-abstract/8/4/770/2396590?redirectedFrom=PDF
Their exoskeletons are more than strong enough to fight off the ants.


	

		
			
		

		
	
 I observed this individual covered by the ants for a few seconds, only to escape with hardly any effort moments later. 
Another hypothesis I would like to confirm is that they utilize animal burrows for shelter during the day, but I haven’t found any evidence of that yet. 

I hope you don’t feel I have derailed your thread JessieJ
I would love to see the finished terrarium with the beetles in it when they arrive. I hope they have a safe trip! Keep us posted!


----------



## undeaddeaths (Aug 9, 2019)

Jaden Peterson said:


> I must respectfully disagree with that statement as I have seen these beetles in their natural habitat at night on many occasions usually at least a few hundred yards apart and almost always alone.
> I do however find that they congregate around harvester ant hills (pogonomyrmex species) sometimes. I hypothesize that this is to feed on the debris brought out and dumped by the ants. Which corresponds with the info from this paper (excluding the part about defensive secretions of course): https://academic.oup.com/ee/article-abstract/8/4/770/2396590?redirectedFrom=PDF
> Their exoskeletons are more than strong enough to fight off the ants.
> View attachment 317083
> ...


Just your opinion! I was referring to specimens kept in captivity though.
A lot of people tend to keep them in small groups communally.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Jaden Peterson (Aug 9, 2019)

undeaddeaths said:


> Just your opinion! I was referring to specimens kept in captivity though.
> A lot of people tend to keep them in small groups communally.


Indeed! That seems to be the best way to keep them, and convenient for their owners.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## JessieJ (Aug 9, 2019)

undeaddeaths said:


> BDFB's tend to live together in dense groups, in small areas well in captivity.
> Considering you're only putting 3 in there that seems like a fine-sized enclosure.
> I'd suggest adding more pieces of cork and/or branches to give more areas for them to climb and hide. Try and make use of some of the vertical space.
> (EDITED)


Thanks for posting.  I do plan to get more wood and sticks in there. Buying the cork bark was a bit pricey for the size I got so I think I may go scavenging for some natural bark. Instead of buying it. It seems silly.  Two like the fake succulent and the other hides  behind the bark.  Also I put in some bug jelly that I purchased from BugsInCyberSpace and a few small pieces of apples but it doesn’t appear that any of them ate over night. I was sure they would be hungry after being shipped.  I’m also less then 24 hours in having them. So I’m very new of this. If you have any knowledge you have to pass, I’d happy accept it.


----------



## JessieJ (Aug 9, 2019)

undeaddeaths said:


> Just your opinion! I was referring to specimens kept in captivity though.
> A lot of people tend to keep them in small groups communally.


The beetles came in yesterday afternoon.  They explored and then found their places to hide.  One went to hide under the fake succulent and the other behind and under the bark.  Oddly the third one goes back and forth to huddle up with each one.  The third spent most of it's time with the one in the succulent but since I've gotten to work it came out and is now huddled up with the one under the bark.
I attached a photo of one eating a bit yesterday.


----------



## Jaden Peterson (Aug 9, 2019)

JessieJ said:


> The beetles came in yesterday afternoon.  They explored and then found their places to hide.  One went to hide under the fake succulent and the other behind and under the bark.  Oddly the third one goes back and forth to huddle up with each one.  The third spent most of it's time with the one in the succulent but since I've gotten to work it came out and is now huddled up with the one under the bark.
> I attached a photo of one eating a bit yesterday.


I love it! What a cute little setup. How does your son like the beetles? They are so fun to watch.


----------



## draconisj4 (Aug 9, 2019)

I'd get rid of the beetle jelly, I used that also when I first started until I discovered most of my desert beetles didn't care for it. I have several Death Feigners in my mixed species enclosure. I feed them carrots and apples and for dry food organic oats, crushed dry roasted soy beans(unsalted), crushed dried crickets, crushed dry dog food and occasionally leftover fish food. The BDFB's prefer protein based foods though they will eat apple for moisture. They also occasionally eat larvae that come to the surface. I also provide a water source, a very shallow bottle cap and I have seen most of my beetles drink. Also a moist corner covered with a bit of curved cork bark for the larvae.

Enjoy your new pets


----------



## JessieJ (Aug 12, 2019)

Jaden Peterson said:


> I love it! What a cute little setup. How does your son like the beetles? They are so fun to watch.


His party isn’t until the end of the month. We’re going to surprise him them. So I’m keeping them at work with me until then.


----------



## JessieJ (Aug 21, 2019)

I agree with you on the bug jelly. Mine don’t seem to care for it either. I had ordered them with the beetles so when they arrived at my office I’d have something at least that day.  I have been doing mostly carrots, apples, and cat food.  I think I’ll add a water source like you mentioned.  Thanks for the other food suggestions, I really appreciate it. 
I was curious about the your comment on keeping a corner damp for larvae?  As in beetle babies? Haha. I though they were hard to mate. Eeek. 



draconisj4 said:


> I'd get rid of the beetle jelly, I used that also when I first started until I discovered most of my desert beetles didn't care for it. I have several Death Feigners in my mixed species enclosure. I feed them carrots and apples and for dry food organic oats, crushed dry roasted soy beans(unsalted), crushed dried crickets, crushed dry dog food and occasionally leftover fish food. The BDFB's prefer protein based foods though they will eat apple for moisture. They also occasionally eat larvae that come to the surface. I also provide a water source, a very shallow bottle cap and I have seen most of my beetles drink. Also a moist corner covered with a bit of curved cork bark for the larvae.


----------



## draconisj4 (Aug 21, 2019)

JessieJ said:


> I was curious about the your comment on keeping a corner damp for larvae? As in beetle babies? Haha. I though they were hard to mate. Eeek.


They mate just fine,lol. It's just very difficult to get the larvae to pupate, I have gotten some larvae from the death feigners but have never attempted to raise them. The moist corner is mostly for the other species of beetles. I get so many larvae from them that I have to cull the tank occasionally. I raise a few of those but the rest get frozen to kill them since they are not native, thawed and then fed to the wild birds outside. 

It's also beneficial to give the beetles a small area of higher humidity so they can choose. It's surprising how many of them will hang out in the moist area, especially in the winter when the air is so dry, after all even in the desert there is some moisture as in dew in the mornings.


----------



## JessieJ (Aug 21, 2019)

Okay I sprayed a corner where the bark is to add some moisture.  I also had to take out the extra bark that I added as this morning the terrarium had some nats in it.  I’ve bagged the bark up to hopefully kill what ever else was living on them. Ugg. Do you buy your wood for this reason?  Or should I be doing something to ensure I’m not putting unwanted guest in with the beetles?   The bark was taken from some cut wood in our back yard.  I had it bagged and closed up for a few days before I put them in the terrarium but that obviously wasn’t enough. 
Since I have taken those out one of the beetles have become more active. The other two sleep a lot under the plant. 
And I know I have too many carrots in there. Haha. I’m going to get rid of that jelly holder soon. It’s too deep for any other use. 
Thanks again for all your help and advice!  



draconisj4 said:


> They mate just fine,lol. It's just very difficult to get the larvae to pupate, I have gotten some larvae from the death feigners but have never attempted to raise them. The moist corner is mostly for the other species of beetles. I get so many larvae from them that I have to cull the tank occasionally. I raise a few of those but the rest get frozen to kill them since they are not native, thawed and then fed to the wild birds outside.
> 
> It's also beneficial to give the beetles a small area of higher humidity so they can choose. It's surprising how many of them will hang out in the moist area, especially in the winter when the air is so dry, after all even in the desert there is some moisture as in dew in the mornings.


----------



## draconisj4 (Aug 21, 2019)

JessieJ said:


> Okay I sprayed a corner where the bark is to add some moisture.  I also had to take out the extra bark that I added as this morning the terrarium had some nats in it.  I’ve bagged the bark up to hopefully kill what ever else was living on them. Ugg. Do you buy your wood for this reason?  Or should I be doing something to ensure I’m not putting unwanted guest in with the beetles?   The bark was taken from some cut wood in our back yard.  I had it bagged and closed up for a few days before I put them in the terrarium but that obviously wasn’t enough.
> Since I have taken those out one of the beetles have become more active. The other two sleep a lot under the plant.
> And I know I have too many carrots in there. Haha. I’m going to get rid of that jelly holder soon. It’s too deep for any other use.
> Thanks again for all your help and advice!


You could try putting the bark in the freezer for a few days. I just buy my wood, it's easier. This is a picture of my tank(excuse the quality) the moist corner is under the bark in the upper left. I have lots of hiding places of different heights and all the beetles occasionally go inside the cholla. There are about 20 beetles in there and not a one to be seen,lol.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## JessieJ (Aug 22, 2019)

Help!!  I came into work and one of my beetles is dead. It was just laying in the middle of their terrarium. I’m very confident it’s dead and not feigning. I don’t understand.  What could have possible happened?


----------



## draconisj4 (Aug 22, 2019)

JessieJ said:


> Help!!  I came into work and one of my beetles is dead. It was just laying in the middle of their terrarium. I’m very confident it’s dead and not feigning. I don’t understand.  What could have possible happened?


It could have been anything. These are all wild caught, it could have just been old and it was it's time. It could have had a parasite. When I first got my beetles one had been infected by a parasitic fly or wasp, it acted perfectly normal until the larvae started chewing their way out of it. I was just lucky to be looking when it happened so immediately changed out the substrate . Too much humidity can kill them, you need crazy good ventilation if you moisten a bit of substrate.

What kind of substrate are you using? If it's the stuff made of walnut shells it's toxic to inverts. Another possibility is pesticide residue on the carrots . There are lots of possibilities.


----------



## JessieJ (Aug 22, 2019)

Okay. I changed out the crushed walnut shells. Wiped it all out and replaced it with a layer of play sand and then some Eco Soil/compressed coconut fiber substrate that I got from the local reptile store. The remaining two beetles are huddled up in the center of the branch and I am crossing my fingers neither of them die over night.  I feel so bad.  The beetle that passed away was missing an antenna yesterday but was very active.  It did have something coming out of its rear but I assumed that was poop. Uggg I don’t know what happened.


----------



## draconisj4 (Aug 22, 2019)

Sounds like it did have parasites, my poor beetle was running around like crazy and was very thirsty while those things were emerging. Poor thing didn't die until the next day. I felt awful, I'd only had them about a week. It's no ones fault though, it's the risk you take buying wild caught animals. The vendor couldn't have known and luckily all the rest of my beetles were fine. I've had them a little over 2 years now.


----------



## JessieJ (Aug 22, 2019)

I’m beginning to wonder if that’s what was coming out of the end of it. It was white and worm like.  I have a picture of the beetles on its back in the cup.  You can kinda tell there is something going on with the rear end. Goodness I hope that the others don’t have the parasite.  Thanks so much for all your help and knowledge.  I ordered three more that I hope will be here to add to the terrarium before Little Man’s Birthday!



draconisj4 said:


> Sounds like it did have parasites, my poor beetle was running around like crazy and was very thirsty while those things were emerging. Poor thing didn't die until the next day. I felt awful, I'd only had them about a week. It's no ones fault though, it's the risk you take buying wild caught animals. The vendor couldn't have known and luckily all the rest of my beetles were fine. I've had them a little over 2 years now.


----------



## draconisj4 (Aug 22, 2019)

JessieJ said:


> I’m beginning to wonder if that’s what was coming out of the end of it. It was white and worm like.  I have a picture of the beetles on its back in the cup.  You can kinda tell there is something going on with the rear end. Goodness I hope that the others don’t have the parasite.  Thanks so much for all your help and knowledge.  I ordered three more that I hope will be here to add to the terrarium before Little Man’s Birthday!


Yeah, that sure doesn't look right. That kind of looks like my beetle did afterward and the larvae that came out of it were tiny white maggots. Hopefully the rest of them and your new ones will be fine. 

Just as a precaution though I would keep the new ones separate from the other ones for at least a couple weeks just to be on the safe side.


----------



## JessieJ (Aug 22, 2019)

Oh I didn’t even think about keeping them separate. That a really good idea. I’ll get something set up for the new ones to be in for a few weeks!   You’re a blessing. Thanks for everything!

Reactions: Like 1


----------

