# Vet clinic for tarantulas and inverts?



## Anonymity82 (Feb 20, 2014)

This place is local and expensive from what I've been told... by everyone who has ever been there including my old job at PetSmart where they would occasionally bring animals. But I've also heard they're very good with exotics. Under their care guide they recommend general anesthesia to suture ruptures and other things they may want to work on. 

I am just curious as how do most of you feel about bringing a tarantula or scorpion to the vet? It's good to know that they have some experience but general anesthesia? I guess if I had a really expensive tarantula but honestly I couldn't even think of a situation where I'd have any hope of them saving it by doing something I couldn't. Tear in the abdomen, if you're lucky enough to catch it, has a few home remedies. I've read of corn starch and/or super glue. The stuck molt, well, would need some delicate hands and I'm guessing the vets hand operating would be steadier than my own but still, I don't even want to think about how expensive that would be. 

What do you think about this?

http://avianandexotic.com/invertebrates


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## Alltheworld601 (Feb 20, 2014)

I have seen videos of experienced keepers putting their inverts to sleep with CO2 to perform moderate surgeries or scrape parasitic mites off of angry species, but my take on this sort of thing is that if you have a sick tarantula or scorpion, the stress alone from being put into a holding container, put into the car and driven to a vet's office to be handled and prodded by a vet and possibly put under some sort of anesthesia would be more dangerous than whatever the problem they have in the first place.

But its neat to know that they will do those things, if you really want to pay for it.  I suppose if you had a super rare, pretty, expensive, subadult female tarantula that you had big breeding plans for that got stuck in a molt, it might be a worthwhile investment...I...guess?

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## Zanyamarie (Feb 20, 2014)

Alltheworld601 said:


> I have seen videos of experienced keepers putting their inverts to sleep with CO2 to perform moderate surgeries or scrape parasitic mites off of angry species, but my take on this sort of thing is that if you have a sick tarantula or scorpion, the stress alone from being put into a holding container, put into the car and driven to a vet's office to be handled and prodded by a vet and possibly put under some sort of anesthesia would be more dangerous than whatever the problem they have in the first place.
> 
> But its neat to know that they will do those things, if you really want to pay for it.  I suppose if you had a super rare, pretty, expensive, subadult female tarantula that you had big breeding plans for that got stuck in a molt, it might be a worthwhile investment...I...guess?


+1. I agree, not worth it.


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## Alltheworld601 (Feb 20, 2014)

Also the whole "routine examinations" idea is completely bonkers.  I read that as "we want to routinely take your money and stress your bug to death."

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## cantthinkofone (Feb 20, 2014)

It's not a waste if you risk loosing something dear to you. When my sugar gliders were on their way out we payed about 3000 dollars and still had them die. At least I get the comfort of knowing their death was peaceful and the vets tried. Even for a T it is worth it. Loosing a VERY rare female COULD destroy that species existence in America and so taking all measures to save it wouldn't be so crazy.


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## cold blood (Feb 20, 2014)

I agree  +2  ...when I read that they encourage yearly visits for tarantulas the first thing I thought was....MONEY GRAB.   What next mite collars, I just see frontline's new product....lol.   I'd have to see them demonstrate their handling abilities in an impressive manner to think they could offer that much more help than I.   Then again, there's some people that will do this just so they can have the doctor tell them how wonderful they are....they are wonderful, but I am not paying anyone to hear it 

Maybe they really are cutting edge, I dunno, I suppose its possible.   I'd love to hear from people that have been there for their yearly exams or have had one saved (or not).


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## Zanyamarie (Feb 20, 2014)

Ive had a lot of experience with vets. I've tried to save so many of many animals and paid SO much money for them to save them, and it fail. I understand where you're coming from cantthinkofone, but I honestly guess I'd have to be in that position to make a decision. I love my T's to death, but I don't know if the outcome would be better than the problem. Sometimes you just can't do anything to help your pets, and it sucks.

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## cold blood (Feb 20, 2014)

Zanyamarie said:


> Sometimes you just can't do anything to help your pets, and it sucks.


More than anything, makes me feel terrible, but its part of having them in your home.   The only way to avoid it is to never have another living thing.....That doesn't work for everyone, certainly not me


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## Zanyamarie (Feb 20, 2014)

cold blood said:


> More than anything, makes me feel terrible, but its part of having them in your home.   The only way to avoid it is to never have another living thing.....That doesn't work for everyone, certainly not me


Yes, it's the worst feeling in the world. But, it's to be expected. The most you can do is love them and do anything you can for them. I couldn't imagine my life without a living creature to take care of.


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## Philth (Feb 21, 2014)

njnolan1 said:


> T
> 
> What do you think about this?
> 
> http://avianandexotic.com/invertebrates


I'd have to seriously question this veterinary clinic. Mostly the picture in the link you provided of the _Avicularia_ getting "Fluid injection in a taranula".  Never mind that they didn't take the time to properly check the spelling of the word *tarantula*, but why does this healthy looking spider need fluids?  It does not appear to be dehydrated in this picture.  So why the need for the fluids?  Why do they think sticking a sharp needle into a plump "taranula" abdomen is a good way to provide fluids?  Puncturing the abdomen of a spider would seem the worst thing for it ( and could possibly kill it) in my opinion. 

This site goes on to say for your Invertebrate they offer...


> Available Services:
> Examination at time of purchase, before introduction into an established collection
> Treatments for parasites and diseases
> Professional advice on care
> ...


:wall::wall::wall:

I would love some of the professional veterinarians working for this company to chime in here and explain these available services lol, what a joke. this is embarrassing. 

Save your $$$ , if you have a problem with you invert, ask around on sites like this for advice with experienced keepers, not doctors who have studied dog and cat medicine most of their life. :barf:  

later, Tom

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## LordWaffle (Feb 21, 2014)

Not to say that this whole veterinary thing for tarantulas is a good idea or anything, but this "stress your tarantula to death" stuff has really got to stop.  If stress alone could kill a tarantula, they would all have died out millions of years ago.  Living in the wild isn't leisure time to the max.  If it were, we'd be horrible monsters for even considering keeping tarantulas as pets, captive bred or not.  Am I saying poke your Ts with a stick repeatedly and keep them on edge so they never come out to eat?  No, obviously not.  But the idea that if you go "boogie boogie boogie" enough your tarantula is just going to keel over is absolutely ludicrous.

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## SpiritScale (Feb 21, 2014)

Nope, not drinking the kool-aid on this one. 

I keep reptiles and a parrot. We've only been really into and performing avian veterinary medicine for 30 years...and even after all this time there is so much we do not know. The same with reptiles. Surgery and treatment is much riskier than with cats, dogs and the like. We have at best iffy normative blood values, so any hematology is an educated guess.  

I see this being like that, but much, much worse. We are pretty in the dark about tarantulas as it is, much less how/if we could intervene medically. 
Why the hell would you risk the T by transporting and subjecting them to this?
Diagnostic testing? Lol for what? Do they have normative values for differing things in the hemolymph?

Also, for what it's worth...I do not see any certification in terms of exotics or exotics-specific credentials. Nor affiliation with any of the reputable exotics/avian veterinary boards and societies. Wouldn't touch these guys with a ten foot pole. No, I don't care that you lecture or attend conferences...where's the proof you know what you're doing? If these are just generalized vets who read a couple books on exotics or had a personal interest...yikes! Stay away. 

Most of what you could do for an injured/sick T can be done at home, by yourself.

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## stewstew8282 (Feb 21, 2014)

I just sent them an email asking what the point of stabbing a T in the abdomen accomplishes. I will post the response if I get one.

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## Philth (Feb 21, 2014)

stewstew8282 said:


> I just sent them an email asking what the point of stabbing a T in the abdomen accomplishes. I will post the response if I get one.


Hopefully you didn't phrase your email as "stabbing" a T , no doctor will take that sort of email seriously. I suspect they will blame a 3rd party creates their webpage and claim their innocence /ignorance, if they take the time to respond. 

Later, Tom


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## oooo35980 (Feb 21, 2014)

Since Ts have an open circulatory system and one of their most common problems is dehydration it's entirely possible a small gauge needle could be helpful in restoring lost fluids, if the correct fluid was injected. How one would determine the correct fluid is beyond me however. They may know, they may not, they may be injecting tap water, who knows? 

If a vet could apply treatments well known in the hobby to your average Petco rosie or avic kept by a casual owner, and not charge an arm and a leg, then I don't see any problems. Even a vet that just read the TKG probably has a better chance of saving a T than a 12 year old kid whos grandmother got him a spider at the LPS. Provided said 12 year old doesn't accidentally kill the T getting it to the vet, which is the one major problem I see with the idea of a vet for Ts.


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## viper69 (Feb 21, 2014)

LordWaffle said:


> Not to say that this whole veterinary thing for tarantulas is a good idea or anything, but this "stress your tarantula to death" stuff has really got to stop.  If stress alone could kill a tarantula, they would all have died out millions of years ago.  Living in the wild isn't leisure time to the max.  If it were, we'd be horrible monsters for even considering keeping tarantulas as pets, captive bred or not.  Am I saying poke your Ts with a stick repeatedly and keep them on edge so they never come out to eat?  No, obviously not.  But the idea that if you go "boogie boogie boogie" enough your tarantula is just going to keel over is absolutely ludicrous.


I couldn't agree more!!!

My exotics live in Club Med compared to the wild! I see the same thing in my primary hobby of reptiles and amphibians

I honestly think "stress" is an over used term. "If you do X it will stress them out and POOF they may die" is always the implication in my opinion.

I believe it originally came into use before there were CB populations as WC species will often get stressed out once in captivity, for example some snakes will stop eating.


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## Formerphobe (Feb 21, 2014)

Pet stores carry tarantulas.
People with no knowledge make spur of the moment purchases.
Some of those people will never seek additional knowledge via AB, or ATS or any other online forum.
Appropriate husbandry and preventive care are key to keeping any species, regardless where keepers get their information.
Some veterinarians do practice spider medicine and fill a niche for owners who don't seek knowledge elsewhere.
Spider medicine is still in relative infancy and often experimental.
Long time hobbyists have contributed tremendously to current knowledge in spider medicine.
Zoological veterinarians such as Romain Pizzi, Dan Dombrowski and Raffaelle Melidone (sp?) (a few published veterinarians who come immediately to mind) have spent countless hours studying and establishing norms for spider medicine.  
Limited parameters have been developed for normal vs abnormal hemolymph evaluation.
Fluids (usually a compounded solution) can be administered to tarantulas intra-abdominally or intracardiac via a small gauge needle.  (I've done this myself.)
There are parasiticides that have been safely used in tarantulas, though, nematodes seem to be a death sentence regardless.
There are also antibiotics and antifungals which have been used with mixed success to treat tarantulas with bacterial or fungal infections.
Iso- and Sevo-fluorane have been safely used to sedate tarantulas for evaluation or treatment.  (A little chemical restraint greatly reduces the stress on a frightened spider and reduces risk of bites to the handlers.)
For most experienced keepers, visiting a veterinarian is neither necessary nor cost effective.

Having been in the veterinary field for a few decades, it is commonplace for clients to show up who have absolutely no idea how to properly care for their pet, be it a dog, cat, horse, snake, turtle or tarantula.  Many will wait until their pet is sick or dying to seek assistance for things that could have been easily prevented by basic good husbandry. One of the biggest jobs in veterinary medicine is client education.  The veterinarian in the link probably has a special interest in tarantulas, probably keeps some himself, and is offering a service to John Idiot Public that may improve some poor spider's lifestyle or save it from an untimely demise.

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## Captain Trips (Feb 21, 2014)

http://avianandexotic.com said:
			
		

> Missing Limbs- Legs are sometimes broken or lost due to trauma.
> The hole in the exoskeleton must be patched with surgical adhesive to avoid fatal blood loss.
> This may require anesthesia.  Limbs usually regrow with successive molts.


I would say these "Spider vets" are Quacks out to make money. I don't know about you people, but I have never seen a T or any other kind of spider die from the loss of a leg.


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## Formerphobe (Feb 21, 2014)

Captain Trips said:


> I would say these "Spider vets" are Quacks out to make money. I don't know about you people, but I have never seen a T or any other kind of spider die from the loss of a leg.


It's entirely possible for a spider to 'bleed out' from leg injury or loss.  Typically, spiders will self-autotomize at the coxal-trochanter joint.  Retraction of the muscle there 'seals' off the injury to prevent fluid loss.  If an injury or amputation occurs mid-shaft, then death from fluid loss can most definitely occur.

Unfortunately, my one and only shipping death was a spider that fought so hard to extricate herself from her packing that she broke a leg mid shaft, bled out and was DOA.  It does happen.


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## LordWaffle (Feb 21, 2014)

oooo35980 said:


> Since Ts have an open circulatory system and one of their most common problems is dehydration it's entirely possible a small gauge needle could be helpful in restoring lost fluids, if the correct fluid was injected. How one would determine the correct fluid is beyond me however. They may know, they may not, they may be injecting tap water, who knows?
> 
> If a vet could apply treatments well known in the hobby to your average Petco rosie or avic kept by a casual owner, and not charge an arm and a leg, then I don't see any problems. Even a vet that just read the TKG probably has a better chance of saving a T than a 12 year old kid whos grandmother got him a spider at the LPS. Provided said 12 year old doesn't accidentally kill the T getting it to the vet, which is the one major problem I see with the idea of a vet for Ts.


Clearly it's milk. Milk is white. Hemolymph is white. Therefore hemolymph is milk. Bam. I'm an arachnovet now. I'll be acceptin reservations for my clinic. Appointments start at 200 bucks.


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## Formerphobe (Feb 21, 2014)

LordWaffle said:


> Clearly it's milk. Milk is white. Hemolymph is white. Therefore hemolymph is milk. Bam. I'm an arachnovet now. I'll be acceptin reservations for my clinic. Appointments start at 200 bucks.


You would be the quack.
Here's a little scientific info for you.
http://books.google.com/books?id=Na...w#v=onepage&q=schartau and leidescher&f=false

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## MarkmD (Feb 21, 2014)

I think it's a stupid idea to have Tarantula vets, they probably only have a small amount of knowledge on certain species, but can be adapted to all i guess, If they have T's of thair own and had them for years then does makes a good candidate to be T vets, on the otherhand sounds like a money making plot for unexpected/low knowledge individuals who DONT know enough to fix the problem at home.  I would like to hear from real people who have used this service to determine if its worth having them.


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## LordWaffle (Feb 21, 2014)

Formerphobe said:


> You would be the quack.
> Here's a little scientific info for you.
> http://books.google.com/books?id=Na...w#v=onepage&q=schartau and leidescher&f=false


Some people are completely inept at sensing jokes.


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## Blut und ehre (Feb 21, 2014)

I knew you were joking.......Because we all know it is not really "whole milk"......It's more like "fat free". [The extra calories effects T at the waist line].



LordWaffle said:


> Some people are completely inept at sensing jokes.


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## ironmonkey78 (Feb 21, 2014)

I  cannot speak for the clinic as I have never heard of them until now but I can assure you that the majority of vets are not in it for the money.  I know a great many and any income they make pretty much goes to paying off student loans and everyday standard living expenses we all have.  If I were to ever consider taking one of my inverts to a clinic I would want to know what type of specialist they are.  it seems to me that this clinic may just be trying to include some other types of animals in their practice that often get forgotten.  more than likely they get inverts on more of a consulting basis where the keeper isn't sure what is going on and wants to understand than anything else.  If they do have a tarantula specialist I would be curious what deems them a specialist though.  I know that to be considered a specialist or an exotics vet such as for reptiles and birds they have at least an additional 2 years of schooling beyond vet school.


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## cold blood (Feb 21, 2014)

Most young vets do have heavy student loans to pay off, along with having to maintain a standard of living, things can get stressful.  This can easily lead one to assume they may be more likely to need money as a result of these now burdensome  loans and may need to do anything they can to bring in extra money.   Not saying anything specific as to the integrity of this vet, or your vet friends, just that, just because you are not living like a king and still have loans doesn't automatically mean one couldn't easily be in a bit of a money grab.  The vast majority of vets may not be all about the money (the vast majority also do not deal with inverts), I can agree with that, but I can also guarantee that there are, in many places, unscrupulous vets that do everything to earn extra $.  I have seen it first hand and have seen local news reports of it happening on more than one occasion.

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## Anonymity82 (Feb 21, 2014)

cantthinkofone said:


> It's not a waste if you risk loosing something dear to you. When my sugar gliders were on their way out we payed about 3000 dollars and still had them die. At least I get the comfort of knowing their death was peaceful and the vets tried. Even for a T it is worth it. Loosing a VERY rare female COULD destroy that species existence in America and so taking all measures to save it wouldn't be so crazy.


True to that. Sorry about your sugar gliders. We had a dog that got cancer at 16 or 17 and my in laws paid thousands and thousands of dollars. Well, the dog did get better but about two years or so later when the dog went for a check up at the oncologist he came home and literally just died within a couple of hours without any outward signs. No stroke, obvious heart failure (until he stopped breathing), or anything. 

I totally agree that if you have something very rare or expensive or at least very dear to you it would be worth the chance.

---------- Post added 02-21-2014 at 05:09 PM ----------




Philth said:


> I'd have to seriously question this veterinary clinic. Mostly the picture in the link you provided of the _Avicularia_ getting "Fluid injection in a taranula".  Never mind that they didn't take the time to properly check the spelling of the word *tarantula*, but why does this healthy looking spider need fluids?  It does not appear to be dehydrated in this picture.  So why the need for the fluids?  Why do they think sticking a sharp needle into a plump "taranula" abdomen is a good way to provide fluids?  Puncturing the abdomen of a spider would seem the worst thing for it ( and could possibly kill it) in my opinion.
> 
> This site goes on to say for your Invertebrate they offer...
> 
> ...


LoL, I agree with most of what you said. Although, they seem to really specialize in reptiles, birds and small mammals. But yeah, of course they're going to say "Come on in, we'll look at him for ya!" and then charge so much.

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LordWaffle said:


> Not to say that this whole veterinary thing for tarantulas is a good idea or anything, but this "stress your tarantula to death" stuff has really got to stop.  If stress alone could kill a tarantula, they would all have died out millions of years ago.  Living in the wild isn't leisure time to the max.  If it were, we'd be horrible monsters for even considering keeping tarantulas as pets, captive bred or not.  Am I saying poke your Ts with a stick repeatedly and keep them on edge so they never come out to eat?  No, obviously not.  But the idea that if you go "boogie boogie boogie" enough your tarantula is just going to keel over is absolutely ludicrous.


I have personally "boogied boogied boogied" all my pets repeatedly for years without any ill affects. Except for the fish, of course, they're a touchy group.


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## Alltheworld601 (Feb 22, 2014)

njnolan1 said:


> I have personally "boogied boogied boogied" all my pets repeatedly for years without any ill affects. Except for the fish, of course, they're a touchy group.


The thing is, no, stress doesn't automatically kill your tarantula.  you don't say BOO and it drops dead.  However, the effects of prolonged stress can have lasting effects on animals in different ways.  They might stop eating.  They might eat waaaay more to compensate for the calories that being afraid all the time can burn. They can definitely refuse to reproduce.  They may spend a lot more time trying to escape.  There's a paper I just read about prolonged stress in animals that are more often prey.  One of the organisms they watched that wasn't a mammal or invertebrate was algae.  If even ALGAE demonstrates some signs of stress effecting its density in the wild, you can bet that monthly checkups for your tarantula at the vet will have a marked effect.  

In the wild, predator induced stress probably has a place in the ecosystem.  Said paper wasn't necessarily saying it was bad and ruining everything...its all part of the balance of nature and they were just wondering if it factored in at all.  Buuuut....your enclosures aren't the wild, and you have the option to have your tarantulas and other inverts thrive by not exposing them to repeated frightening situations that they will perceive as predation.  

I suppose if this vet was really actually specialized in invertebrate medicine and could do more than we could when one was dehydrated, leaking hemolymph, or had like I said before a parasitic mite (you know, the actually potentially dangerous kind) infestation in the lungs and mouth, and you have very deep pockets, it might be worth seeking their help, especially if you had one of the only hopes for captive breeding of a rare and endangered species.  But the idea of bringing it to the vet's office (and um, don't most people here have more than one tarantula?  Imagine bringing all 300 to the vet)  for routine "check ups" could very well stress it to death indirectly when it starts displaying behaviors of chronic stress...at the very least i would expect it to never lay or let an egg sac go to full term without eating it.

Here's a little excerpt from what I was referring to..and I believe I read of a similar study with pregnant crickets not too long ago, which was also very cool: "The potential effect of predator-induced stress on mortality not due to direct predation was recently evaluated in an experiment looking at the effect of ‘risk’ predators (spiders with their mouthparts glued shut) on prey (grasshopper nymphs) constrained in artificial enclosures (Hawlena & Schmitz 2010a). Hawlena & Schmitz (2010a) reported that the metabolic rate (measured by the rate of carbon dioxide emission) of grasshopper nymphs exposed to ‘risk’ spiders was 40% higher than that of control grasshoppers, and this difference in metabolic rate was associated with a heightened energy demand, and corresponding shift in diet."

So, a tarantula egg sac is sounding pretty delicious right about now.


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## RoseK (Feb 22, 2014)

I had to rush my MF _E. murinus_ to the veterinary college in Guelph (Ontario, Canada) last summer. She had a small abdominal cyst that burst during a molt. Fortunately the vets saved her and the bill was very reasonable. She was mated and dropped a sac in October. You'd never know she'd hd a near-death experience.

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## Blut und ehre (Feb 22, 2014)

Out of curiosity ?? [and not being a wise-a#$...ha ha].....What do you think they did for your E.mur.....that you couldn't do??.....with a little knowledge?? ....super glue?? flour??? .....How "deep" can the "field of medicine" go for a T???...drugs?? 
Where does/would "schooling" begin and end for such a creature??....what are /would be the qualifications for a person to considered a "professional"?  I mean....around my "neck of the woods".....it would be like taking your earth worm to the vets?!??!? hahaha
I'm happy she came through with flying colors by the way!!!!



RoseK said:


> I had to rush my MF _E. murinus_ to the veterinary college in Guelph (Ontario, Canada) last summer. She had a small abdominal cyst that burst during a molt. Fortunately the vets saved her and the bill was very reasonable. She was mated and dropped a sac in October. You'd never know she'd hd a near-death experience.

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## MarkmD (Feb 22, 2014)

Yeah what school/college/university would someone get a certified degree in T Vet Care? you can study T's/inverts in the science lab in any college/university and gain knowledge of alot of it, but not enough to become a T Vet, unless your life has been totally dedicated to every part of T life in the wild and CB care, then been to university to get a fully professional degree then with all that probably 40+ years of studies make your own business being a T vet, even with all that T knowledge (things change) as new better ways to look after them happen all the time, so no one can ever be a T professional, especially professional T vet. just my view.


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## RoseK (Feb 22, 2014)

Blut und ehre said:


> Out of curiosity ?? [and not being a wise-a#$...ha ha].....What do you think they did for your E.mur.....that you couldn't do??.....with a little knowledge?? ....super glue?? flour??? .....How "deep" can the "field of medicine" go for a T???...drugs??
> Where does/would "schooling" begin and end for such a creature??....what are /would be the qualifications for a person to considered a "professional"?  I mean....around my "neck of the woods".....it would be like taking your earth worm to the vets?!??!? hahaha
> I'm happy she came through with flying colors by the way!!!!


They sutured the wound shut using dissolvable thread material and instructed me to make an ICU to rehydrate her. They only charged me for the stitching, so the bill was cheap. I don't regret spending the money....


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## Blut und ehre (Feb 22, 2014)

AND you shouldn't regret it!!...I wouldn't have either!!!!!! I am happy for you for sure!!
"Sutured" you say????  Interesting!!! I've never heard of that!! Fantastic! 



RoseK said:


> They sutured the wound shut using dissolvable thread material and instructed me to make an ICU to rehydrate her. They only charged me for the stitching, so the bill was cheap. I don't regret spending the money....


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## Philth (Feb 23, 2014)

RoseK said:


> They sutured the wound shut using dissolvable thread material and instructed me to make an ICU to rehydrate her. They only charged me for the stitching, so the bill was cheap. I don't regret spending the money....


That is pretty amazing, and I wouldn't call this normal for most veterinarians.  So if I have this right, she had a cyst on her abdomen, that burst during the fragile time of a molt.  They sutured her abdomen back together , and she went on to lay a successful eggsac after all that? Did she ever molt during any of this?   Did you take any pics of this?   I'm not doubting you, but its a pretty amazing story, and that vet should be recognized for a serious accomplishment.  

Later, Tom


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## Wildenthusiast (Feb 23, 2014)

@ RoseK: Wow... that's an amazing story. Especially considering she produced after the fact. I wouldn't even have thought the exo on the abdomen was durable enough to hold tension on the sutures without further tearing. 

Seriously, congratulations and thanks for sharing that experience. Another pristine example of how we learn from these forums everyday.


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## pocock1899 (Feb 25, 2014)

I'm kind of amazed at the responses. It's like there is no way a vet can help something that small or that difficult to work with...
It isn't voodoo or anything. It's certainly not anymore technologically difficult than zoo and rehab vets that work on hummingbirds.

I have a good friend who's an exotic vet. She spent quite a bit of time in vet school working with inverts. When she came to practice with my small animal vet, I often brought her my tarantulas. Sometimes, it was just for her to examine and raise her basic comfort level, while I was there for another appointment. 

However, she did some work with anasthesia and xrays. She also tried to help a nasty molting incident through hydration (external and internal) and manipulation. Ultimately, it was unsuccessful but I think it was a learning experience for both of us. I'm very sure the animal would have died anyway, but at least this way, it served some purpose. Most of the stuff she did for a learning experience, as they don't really teach this stuff in vet school (yet). I think she rarely charged me but for supplies. She was able to suture up a serious split in the abdomen of a large Brachypelma smithi. Two molts later, you can't tell there was ever a problem. 

If you reduce an animal to sheer dollar amounts, that spider is worth more than any of the dogs or cats I've ever owned. ...and I took all of them to the vet.

Two years ago, my vet friend moved away to open her own practice, and I must say that there was a certain amount of comfort in knowing that if one of my spiders got into trouble, I had someone (other than internet acquaintances ) to turn to. I do miss that.

I think if you have a good exotic vet that you already take other animals to, you should talk to them about inverts. If you have a good enough relationship, and they're interested, they may be willing to work on your animals for minimal cost if you give them the chance to learn. Ask if they'd be willing to look at stuff that you might otherwise write off as a goner. The worst they can do is say "no, not interested", but you won't know until you ask.

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## Anonymity82 (Feb 26, 2014)

Very true! I wonder if they'd be interested in any donated scorpion or tarantula corpses, fresh of course.


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## cold blood (Feb 26, 2014)

pocock1899 said:


> I'm kind of amazed at the responses. It's like there is no way a vet can help something that small or that difficult to work with...
> It isn't voodoo or anything. It's certainly not anymore technologically difficult than zoo and rehab vets that work on hummingbirds.
> 
> I have a good friend who's an exotic vet. She spent quite a bit of time in vet school working with inverts. When she came to practice with my small animal vet, I often brought her my tarantulas. Sometimes, it was just for her to examine and raise her basic comfort level, while I was there for another appointment.
> ...


You said it yourself right in that post...."Most of the stuff she did for learning experience, as they don't really teach this stuff in vet school (yet)"

Many of us have a decade or vastly more of hands on experience with these critters...we've already went through our hands on learning experiences and are IMO often the best solution.  If and when inverts, specifically tarantula care is actually taught in school, then I think it would be something to consider.   As it sits now the vet does not have any information about the t that I don't already know or couldn't find myself.

I'm willing to spend thousands on my dog, because despite all my dog experience, I know what my vet learned in school is different from my knowledge and has been proven.  If my vet had learned everything they know about dogs simply by getting hands on experience now and again, I not only wouldn't spend thousands, I wouldn't even go there for checkups and would consider that vet to be basically useless to me....just as I would a consider a vet for a tarantula....for now.

I think there's still a lot to learn before there is proper info enough for vet school to even consider teaching t care.

Reactions: Like 2


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## MarkmD (Feb 26, 2014)

Hi cold blood, that's what i was trying to say in my last post, thairs so certified position in any college/university to be a professional in T Vet care, yes they can gain Degrees in T anatomy etc, but have hardly any real experience with T care (other than scientific) not really a basis to being a Vet, I maybe wrong cause some may have experience with T's but I wouldn't spend my money just yet.


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## cold blood (Feb 26, 2014)

Don't get me wrong pocock, I am glad there are vets like your friend willing to take the plunge and learn about them, its that kind of person that will/could someday change the industry, but my guess is that she's the exception rather than the rule.  I hope she gains a lot of useful insight that could possibly help others in the future and is documenting every experience. 


Hi Mark!


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## MarkmD (Feb 26, 2014)

Ok I guess its true, it would be a good a Very Good advantage to potentially have T Vets in the close Future or experienced people in the field to help out wherever we can't solve the problem at home, hopefully they keep going cause I love this hobby/lifestyle anything that can/will help is brilliant.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Formerphobe (Feb 26, 2014)

I can only speak for the veterinary schools in the US, and each of them is different.  Some offer 'tracking', where a veterinary student can focus specifically on Equine, Livestock, Small Animal, etc, while also going through basic rotations in each of the disciplines.  Some vet schools (Cornell for one) do include an invertebrate class.  (One of the vets I work with went to Cornell and she gave me all her tarantula notes because she is terrified of spiders.)

No veterinary student can graduate from vet school as a board certified specialist in any field.  Attaining specialty status means an additional 6 or more years of full time, high quality practice experience, documentation of high level continuing education, presentation of case logs to the board, be primary author of at least 5 publications in the field of zoologic medicine, and passing a comprehensive board exam.  Each specialty has detailed prerequisites to be met before one can consider paying the ~$1000 it costs to sit for the 2 - 3 day exam.  

Needless to say, most veterinarians do not pursue a specialty.  However, that's not to say there aren't many knowledgeable veterinarians out there that do have a special interest and experience in treating inverts, herps, etc.  I have the luxury of working with a former non-boarded zoo veterinarian and I regularly pick his brain.  Inverts weren't really a special interest of his, but he has treated many over the years and has a better than average working knowledge of them.

There is even a Vet Tech Zoologic Medicine specialty.  After graduation from an accredited program and having worked in the field for a minimum of 2 years or 6000 hours, a vet tech can then start accumulating the necessary 5 years or 10,000 hours necessary to be considered to sit for the board exam.  They also have to have at least 40 hours of relevant continuing education, and present at least 40 case logs to the board.  One of my associates who works for the National Zoo has completed this rigorous training.  (If I were a little younger, I might pursue it myself...)

Dr. Romain Pizzi (Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons recognised Specialist in Zoo & Wildlife Medicine) compiled the _Spiders_ chapter in Gregory Lewbart's tome, Invertebrate Medicine.  Dr. Pizzi spent several years traveling/studying in Africa and Asia. Spiders and tarantulas were a big part of that learning experience.  I've corresponded with Dr. Pizzi on more than one occasion in regard to tarantula medicine.  

Veterinary spider medicine is not new, just not common place.  And veterinarians who are boarded or have a special interest are few and far between.  Most general practitioners who also treat inverts and some of the other uncommon exotics, do not charge the same as they would for a dog or a cat or other 'companion' animal.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Rooney (May 3, 2014)

I would even take my 20 dollar rose hair to vet, I don't see my children as rare or expensive. I view them as a dog or cat. I love them all enough to ensure a maximum lifespan.


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