# First Buthid Suggestions



## Beary Strange (Jun 11, 2014)

Hi everyone. So my boyfriend and I have been looking to increase our scorpion collection and le boyfriend is really interested in the buthids (particularly he wants to work up to L.quinquestriatus). Now, I previously had a self-imposed "no buthidae" rule and as such, the only scorpions we currently own are P.imperator and A.pococki. I'm extremely nervous about owning a hot scorp, even though I know reasonably that keeping my hands to myself and escape proof containers eliminate much of the need for worry. So with months to plan in mind, does anyone have any suggestions for a good first buthid? Maybe something not "as" hot, a tad bit on the slower, chiller side if there is such a thing. Is there a ladder system like with tarantulas? And any tips for staying safe other than the obvious would be much appreciated. :8o


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## gromgrom (Jun 11, 2014)

Babycurus jacksoni 
Centruroides gracilis
Centruroides sculpturatus

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## Beary Strange (Jun 11, 2014)

gromgrom said:


> Babycurus jacksoni
> Centruroides gracilis
> Centruroides sculpturatus


I've been wanting those top two so that's lucky. Is there any particular reason you recommend them? Venom, speed, etc?


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## Olsin (Jun 12, 2014)

The whole ladder system is a bogus concept created in part by a misrepresentation of scorpions together with the elitist nature of some humans and the insecure nature of some others.
Simple, child like safety procedures are all that are needed to render even the most deadly scorpion inert. Adhering to them negates any differences there may be in any scorpions venom, leaving you free to observe and enjoy them without any worries of being stung.
Scorpions can't climb vertical glass. No scorpions can. Shiny smooth clean plastic is another surface scorpions can't climb. So if a scorpion is in a enclosure of this material and the height of the sides of this enclosure are higher than a scorpion can possibly reach from any point within the enclosure, that scorpion is never coming out of that enclosure unless it's taken out by a human/animal....fit a secure top and you've covered acts of god as well..

If you was a conscientious driver that always kept within the speed limit when you was out driving....what would it matter if your car could drive 100kph or 500kph!?

Secondly. Scorpions don't like being handled anyway so you don't handle them. Moving scorpions around or enclosure maintenance should be done using chopsticks (or similar) and small, high sided containers. Simply place the small container in front of scorpion or if it's square and the enclosure is straight sided then place the container along one of the sides. Use the chopstick to gently usher the scorpion into the container. Flip the container up with the chopstick as soon as the scorpion has entered. You could then use pincers/forceps/tongs to pick the container up. At no time is your hand within reach of the scorpion. Scorpions can't hop/jump/fly so at no point are you in danger.

My advice.....find what scorpions are available to you, decide what kind of environment you'd like to re-create (xeric, semi-humid, mesic) and then research what scorpions of those available to you live/thrive in that environment. Of those scorpions pick whichever appeals based on looks/habitus/size/husbandry.......Their lethality or lack of is just an interesting side note.

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## Jesse Willems (Jun 12, 2014)

Parabuthus transvaalicus! A really beautifull and interesting scorpion, if you ask me..

Use long tongs and glasses if you want. Keep them in a container where they cannot climb out if the lid is off so you can work safely. I bought an epi-pen for them, but that's completely up to you (they are g*ddamn pricey! 150 euro's in the Netherlands and 1 year exp. date..). Also make a 'plan' for yourself on what to do when you get stung. It will most likely get you in severe pain and signs of scorpionism but death is not recorded (only in children and eldery people)

If you have any more questions, please ask them. Good luck with your search!

Edit: @Olsin , I do agree with you that you can keep even the most lethal scorpions relatively safe. However, I would not advise anybody who has never had scorpions before try to cup a deathstalker or something like that. The OP has some experience with scorpions so that's not a problem here

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## Olsin (Jun 12, 2014)

Jesse Willems said:


> I do agree with you that you can keep even the most lethal scorpions relatively safe. However, I would not advise anybody who has never had scorpions before try to cup a deathstalker or something like that.


You're just buying into the elitist remark i made earlier.......Euscorpius or Leiurus, it's makes no difference as long as the creature comes nowhere near you....and yes, scorps can be fast but they can't jump, hop or fly and if your hands are not at a level it can tag you, then it doesn't matter how fast it is.

I will concede however with regards to morons and retards....these guys shouldn't have anything to do with any animal yet stupid will always be stupid so i guess these guys will always have to learn the hard way...everyone else can just use their common sense and enjoy whatever specie of scorpion they wish to keep.

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## Jesse Willems (Jun 12, 2014)

Olsin said:


> You're just buying into the elitist remark i made earlier.......Euscorpius or Leiurus, it's makes no difference as long as the creature comes nowhere near you....and yes, scorps can be fast but they can't jump, hop or fly and if your hands are not at a level it can tag you, then it doesn't matter how fast it is.
> 
> I will concede however with regards to morons and retards....these guys shouldn't have anything to do with any animal yet stupid will always be stupid so i guess these guys will always have to learn the hard way...everyone else can just use their common sense and enjoy whatever specie of scorpion they wish to keep.


I very much agree with you on this. Just don't let a first timer cup a Leiurus xD


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## gromgrom (Jun 12, 2014)

Belle Fury said:


> I've been wanting those top two so that's lucky. Is there any particular reason you recommend them? Venom, speed, etc?


They were my first. Theyre also pretty easy to raise, with jacksoni being a little tricky. They're usually readily available, and not too venomous to really be fearful (unless you have kids/pets/youre allergic to bees). As Olsin said, you can really start with any, but I personally started by moving up slowly to get a read for what to expect from different buthids. 

And about the Parabuthus transvaalicus suggestion, they do make an amazingly fun buthid to start with, but until adulthood, are quite frisky and CAN AND WILL make a run for it if your cups are not tall enough to prevent an escape during feeding/watering. I'm not saying you shouldnt start with such a species, but just that they require more responsibility and respect. Babycurus jacksoni and the Centruroides will avoid you, or play dead. Occasionally attempt to sting or escape. I merely suggest them since it gets you slowly introduced to more defensive behaviors that more lethal and frisky buthids and non-buthids exhibit. 

Feel free to start with whatever you wish, so long as you treat it with respect and give it proper care!

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## BAM1082 (Jun 12, 2014)

I agree 100% with Olsin; with proper caution and foreplanning any species can be kept quite safely. 


Jacksoni make a great first aboreal scorpion, quite beautiful after a moult too. 

If you prefer a drier species, I would recommend Hottentotta Hottentotta, aggressive, fun to watch species imo.

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## freedumbdclxvi (Jun 13, 2014)

One of my first scorpions was a P trans.  Lovely species.  I agree that, with scorps, there isn't a real need to do it in steps as you would with spiders.


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## Beary Strange (Jun 13, 2014)

Thank you all for your advice so far, I really appreciate it.

After reading a few suggestions and looking more into the different ones, I think B.jacksoni will be my first buthid. As I said, I know reasonably that precaution should eliminate my worries, but still, having a hot anything is a big step for me. Just letting my guy go out and buy a L.quinquestriatus seems about as reasonable to me as telling a newcomer to buy a S.calceatum straight away, even though I know these are two very different things, threat wise. >w<;;


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## G. Carnell (Jun 13, 2014)

Hey,

Seems like some great advice in this thread!

One final point to make regarding B. jacksoni

This species is often mixed up with Odonturus dentatus, which looks very nearly identical to B. jacksoni apart from a few differences you can see here: http://www.ntnu.no/ub/scorpion-files/o_dentatus.php
This species has caused deaths in children in the past, and therefore might be out of your comfort zone as a first buthid.

basically, please get your Babycurus from someone with a lot of experience/good reviews and who knows a lot about scorpions!


pic of my O. dentatus back when i thought it was B. jacksoni, both really pretty scorpions!


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## KDiiX (Jun 22, 2014)

Like said before some great advice, but also enough to roll my eyes.
I won't quote anyone and anything a refer to because different things went down which annoyed me.
- Allergie to bees says nothing about Allergie to scorpions and other way round
- scorpions can climb glass and plastic under certain circumstances
- their is always a risk having scorpions no matter what's your precaution 
- recommending a parthogenetic species like H.hottentotta without even mention that you will get automatically baby's shouldn't be done
- 150€ in Europe for a P.transvaalicus =》somebody fooled you. Over the border in Germany some periods you get them almost for free. 150 € is a pretty valuable price for adult pair of P.villosus which are much rarer then tranvaalicus
- even though you may have the ability to drive a 500kph car as beginner safely, the risk having just a moment where you loose the control over all that power is still there and isn't it questionable to buy a 500kph car if you want to stick to speed limits? So taking it back to scorpions if you don't wanna kill somebody with a sting isn't it questionable to buy a scorpions with the deadliest venom?  
- nothing is 100% safe except that we all have to die one day, that always should stay back in your mind, because no matter what you do for precaution some things in life are still uncontrollable.  Even it might look 100% safe for many people I have always my 100+1 rule. It doesn't might doesn't matter with a deadly scorpion that 100 people said to you "well its no problem, it's 100% safe" if person 101 got stung and can't tell anyone. 
- without having any elitist intentions of course it makes a difference between Euscorpius and Leiurus. It's a big difference. If you make just one mistake you might be done with learning from your mistakes if it was a Leiurus, Euscorpius sp probably aren't able to sting through the most areas of human skin, if a mistake was down with them you might get a small shock and that's all. Btw saying it has something to do with  a elitist idea gets me to the question  would I care if this elite gets bigger? No, so it is worth think about if being careful and start small is just a reasonable advice. Often I feel like some people just want to take the role of the nice uncle.  You all know that nice uncle that gave you sweets before lunch even though your "bad" mother forbid any sweet before lunch just 5 min ago :-D

And finally @belle very good choice for a scorpion you made with the jacksoni. It would be interesting for me to know why your boyfriend wants especially that deathstalker... Most likely the reason and most likely the ONLY reason is because the deathstalker is known as the deadliest scorpion of all. As I said before if you don't wanna kill somebody with the venom isn't it absolutely nonsense to want the scorpion with the highest risk of having at least heavy medical problems after getting stung? I don't wanna offend anyone, but often people feel "cool" owning the deathstalker even though an other scorpion might fit much better to their requirements. So it might be helpful to discuss especially this topic with you boyfriend especially if you having a bad feel with living under the same roof with a deathstalker, because there are so many  beautiful scorpions out there from low venomous to high venomous but most of them are more interesting than the deathstalker :-D I would guarantee to anyone if the deathstalker wouldn't that venomous at all nobody would have interest in this species and exact that fact is reason enough to think about if you wanna be just a poser which chooses his animal for stupid reasons or do you wanna keep animals because you love how they look & behave?


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## Olsin (Jun 22, 2014)

Yes yes, scorpions can climb glass if they are very small and the glass is caked up with chalk/residue from misting...but that's just picking bones..A small scorpion wouldn't penetrate your skin anyway so there's no threat there. So generally speaking, scorps can't climb glass/smooth plastic (as long as you keep it clean!) and those that could under specific situations won't pose a threat anyway....The rest of your post was simply you stating your opinion and of course you are entitled to that......Your examples only reinforced your world view (as they were of course meant to) although i can think of just as many examples that reinforce my world view, so who's right??...........we both are!
However the whole discussion is academic...The op has already shown she's ready to adopt the elitist vs insecure philosophy so all your post does is reinforce what she has already decided....Certainly a lot of words to say i agree with you.

And i'm no one's favourite uncle .. I see hysteria all around me and wise guys talking themselves up. I see insecure people being lead by other insecure people and dogma, myth's, lie's, points of view and opinions pasted constantly over as fact and law. I see restrictions and limits being accepted and people becoming unthinking passengers that ride along on whatever mode of reality is being ported as the present correct one......I see all this and i don't like it...By going against the grain i feel that at least i'm doing my bit to retain at least a segment of true individuality.....Plus...i stand by my words. You can keep any specie of scorpion very easily without having to worry about being stung by it. Someone that believed in themselves would probably also quickly come to that conclusion although a more insecure person has a tendency to see dangers everywhere and not trust their ability to deal with them....It's up to each and every one of us to decide who we are! and thankfully, at least a few don't accept the party line and are prepared to do their own thing.
You often paint a good argument and i often find myself agreeing with you, this time though you've generalised to much and chosen weak arguments (everything can be dangerous if you want it to be) as your basis of contention..... I understand what you're saying and i understand your point of view.....I just don't agree with it.


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## Smokehound714 (Jun 22, 2014)

Small scorpions can climb glass that has been encrusted with calcium deposits.  Lost a few scorplings that way


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## KDiiX (Jun 23, 2014)

That's not just bone picking it's a fact that can't just been ignored and if so this might be your personal security lack that you don't even see. I also saw adult heterometrus or Pandinus sp climbing the silicon of a glass tank, so it's not only an issue with small ones. Plastic container can get scratches by the scorpion trying wall running. Which is just a matter of time until the plastic gets a well climbable border. 
By the way even a small scorpion can grow to a big one! Depending on where you life and how your house is climated over the year some scorpions might grow pretty well. I've recently read a post on Facebook where two people reported of a escaped i2 A.australis and i think it was a H.hottentotta i3 . The A.australis was found a couple of weeks later i3 and the H.hottentotta month later after molted several times in the meantime. Both people who where before also saying "scorpions are 100% safe"
Well in theory scorpions are safe but we don't life in any theory!

Ok than you not the favourite uncle you're the dark knight that frees society from the handcuffs of hysteria. Well choosen role :-D
But Mr batman let me tell you one thing just because you're so arrogant you can't admit that even you have the possibility to make mistakes the Argumentation that mistakes with lethal scorpions can be lethal isn't automatically weak. You're absolutely right that you can keep and handle scorpions in theory absolutely safe IF YOU DON'T DO ANY MISTAKES,  as long as we're humans we are learning by mistakes so you should always calculate with the mistake even if they absolutely rare. So the only argumentation which is weak is yours because it's basis on the fact that humans don't do mistakes.  You say you are annoyed by laws and restrictions many laws and restrictions. Most of them which related to terraristic have only been done because people have made mistakes which had at least a certain publicity.  Like being stung by a escaped A.australis (btw you said small scorpions can't harm you i2 A.australis can get through skin, so like many other species, which might be dangerous to children and other pets)

And at the end I don't believe that you understand at all what I'm saying...
Btw are you riding motorcycle?


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## Galapoheros (Jun 23, 2014)

Yeah keep your glass and plastic clean and you should be OK, watch for rough areas in corners too.  Plastic may look clean but sometimes there are tiny hard to see scratches that small scorpions can grab on to, I just had a nasty spider get out that way.  I see now that KDiiX basically typed the same but will just leave it.  My criteria for a "beginner" scorpion is this; "inexpensive, hardy, and not very venomous".  I have a slight prob with the word "beginner" though in this context because it doesn't have a whole lot to do with "levels" of experience.  It's basically like a trial run to see if you remain interested, take care of it properly and are responsible enough to avoid getting stung and keeping them from getting out.  It's kind of sad to me because the beginner label has given some scorpion species an undeserving reputation like what happened to Pandinus imperator.  It was labeled as a beginner scorpion and I could see that the percpective of some people was that people that have them were little baby scorpion keepers, but imo that's a bogus point of view.  If the deathstalker wasn't so venomous it would be considered a beginner scorpion, as long as they were inexpensive.  So to me there is really not much to all that.  To me, level of experience better applies to scorpions that are difficult to keep alive and difficult to breed, and as things get figured out there becomes less and less of those species.  After saying all that, I guess "beginner" is the best word we have to use.


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## Olsin (Jun 23, 2014)

@KDiiX .. Ok minnie mouse, were getting there where it's soon going to be getting personal...You can blah blah and cry all you like, it doesn't rock my point of view.......Your arguments are nothing but "ifs" with ifs being the arguments of whiners and, yeh, whiners. What ever point of view is raised anyone can always raise an if question or stick to an if point of view....it just how we show our world picture/rule set to others.....so minnie, while you like squeaking around, batman likes getting out there..is one or the other wrong?
I think scorpions can be kept quite easily without any threat if you adhere to a few simple child like principles...You say yes, but humans make mistakes...i say humans should be allowed to make mistakes otherwise we learn nothing....you probably think of some scenario were a child gets stung or a favourite pet gets killed or some other emotion provoking event that re-emphasises  your life sucking philosophies...I roll my eyes and walk away.

If you want to carry on whining then do it in PM..


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## KDiiX (Jun 23, 2014)

Olsin said:


> .i say humans should be allowed to make mistakes otherwise we learn nothing


 And that's the point! Never said anything else but you're argumentation just works if you eliminate all possible mistakes. And ignoring the ifs is just unresponsible. If you wanna be unresponsible it's ok for me but why you have to tell beginners just lies? Be unresponsible for your self and nobody cares ;-) 
Btw I'm not crying at all but your last post sounds like you getting near to that point getting. At least getting that upset because somebody compared you're wanna be outlaw mentality to a comic heroe tells me that you have a bad lack of humor...
and i still missing an answer if you riding motorcycle?


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## Olsin (Jun 24, 2014)

Hahahaaa....you ARE crying....The more upset you get the worse your English becomes and i didn't understand a word of that...Ok, i got that bit about the ifs and irresponsibility but generally it still read as undecipherable whining.
....and what's all that about you translating opinions as lies (or was you talking about breakfast cereal?)...My core argument here is that you can keep any scorpion safely without fear of envenomation if you adhere to a few simple procedures. That is my opinion, that is not a lie..Scorpions can't climb clean horizontal glass. That is also my opinion although if you have photo documented evidence to the contrary i would be willing to concede with regards to that one specie. I cut the silicon from my enclosures half way up....read it on a forum years ago and it seemed a good idea. I often see others mentioning it now and again but i didn't mention it again in connection with this thread. I also use distilled water for spraying..read that years ago as well...maybe i should have been more specific in my initial posts...point to you whiner but it still reinforces my point that a few simple procedures are all that's needed.
Scorpions can neither climb clean horizontal smooth plastic although again, photo evidence of a series of pics showing a scorp making it's way from bottom to top would open up discussion. Until then it's my opinion that they can't do it although if the plastic was old and full of scratches or there were other marks/encrustations that had built up over time because of a lack of cleaning or awareness then i know small scorps could do it...I'm not talking about amateur, half thought out procedures though, i'm talking about set rules that you adhere to...Keeping plastic (if you really wanted to use plastic) clean by renewal could be a simple procedure
Scorpions can't fly and neither do they hop. I'll risk calling that one a truth although the hopping is maybe a bit fuzzy...I did once see a young xeric scorp move in such a way that it could be described as a hop when it was startled by a prey item. It didn't get of the ground much and it was nothing like a flea hop or anything like that but it still might have been a hop. Still, i'll go with an opinion that a scorp if it can hop, can't hop higher than it's outstretched length.
If you can wipe your tears off the screen and prove any of that is wrong then what can i say....whining pays of after all eh 

if on the other hand you can't prove anything then all that leaves is opinion against opinion, the human element.....You don't seem to have the ability to realise that there's many types of people in the world, you don't seem to understand that peoples awareness in relation to the way they see the world and themselves is a huge variable...maybe you live in a small rural area or your local population is homogenic or you're just anal..i don't know...The point is....I don't see the point in carrying this on with you. I invited you to take it over to PM and you rather childishly (and totally in character i might add) carried on....So these are my last words. I'll be looking forward to any photo documentation you might post proving your points of view....(the upcoming whining should be entertaining to  )


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## KDiiX (Jun 24, 2014)

:-D 
Well since I've had my last English lesson over ten years ago it might be possible that I have made one or two mistakes in my last post I posted late at night. But if you don't understand it I have to say honestly that it might be your fault. Because using unresponsible instead of irresponsible should be manageable for somebody with a minimum of intelligence. 

I really don't get the point where you think I'm whining :-D I also don't get the point why I should discuss such things private when I think it's a thing that has also some sort of value for the public. The only reason I can imagine after you're last post is that you want to speak without moderation that you can get even more insulting. 

Your lies(which you already paddled back):
-scorpions can't climb glass
-scorpions can't climb plastic
You already agreed that you where very unspecific with that, you may have forgotten that you offered an allegedly 100% secure set up to a beginner but don't mentioned the most important things to keep it secure. What  you obviously don't get is that I'm not disagree with your opinion that you can keep them nearly 100% safely. I just disagree with the part that you should recommend every idiot you meet online (belle isn't ment with that it's just a general statement because you actually never know how others behave when they have their Buthid at home) not even to care about how venomous an animal is.

The photos you mentioned to proof the fact that I saw big scorpions climbing glass and plastic enclosures I won't provide, because I have better things to do with my time than searching for over 6 month old pictures in different Facebook groups etc.  But the better question can you proof at all that it's absolutely impossible?  Not at all, you just assume something because you don't better know (actually a way of proof teachers don't accept at 5th grade :-D)


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## Beary Strange (Jun 24, 2014)

KDiiX said:


> And finally @belle very good choice for a scorpion you made with the jacksoni. It would be interesting for me to know why your boyfriend wants especially that deathstalker... Most likely the reason and most likely the ONLY reason is because the deathstalker is known as the deadliest scorpion of all. As I said before if you don't wanna kill somebody with the venom isn't it absolutely nonsense to want the scorpion with the highest risk of having at least heavy medical problems after getting stung? I don't wanna offend anyone, but often people feel "cool" owning the deathstalker even though an other scorpion might fit much better to their requirements. So it might be helpful to discuss especially this topic with you boyfriend especially if you having a bad feel with living under the same roof with a deathstalker, because there are so many  beautiful scorpions out there from low venomous to high venomous but most of them are more interesting than the deathstalker :-D I would guarantee to anyone if the deathstalker wouldn't that venomous at all nobody would have interest in this species and exact that fact is reason enough to think about if you wanna be just a poser which chooses his animal for stupid reasons or do you wanna keep animals because you love how they look & behave?


I am inclined to agree with you. When I showed him a Rhopalurus junceus and offered it up as a much more attractive buthid than a Leirus, his was response was that it's "not a deathstalker". :/ All things being equal, I'm much more into arachnids beyond just their looks or reputations than he is (funny thing there, when we go to meet people for transactions, they tend to address him and ignore me...but he couldn't tell you what an apophysis is, or where to locate the femur...or tell you the T in question's scientific name...)-he has an interest and for that I'm grateful...it's much better than being horrified of my collection. Most likely, taking everyone's advice into account and completely agreeing that he definitely wants one for the wrong reasons, I'm not sure if a Leirus will ever end up in my home, but I do also feel much more confident in the "not quite as dangerous" buthid-ownership now...which I do have a genuine interest in.


Also...wow did it get heated in here fast. Not to wade too far into this, but I don't see going slow or people advising that myself or others do so as being elitist. Those of us on the tarantula side of things often advise people not to buy an OBT or an H.mac first thing and that has nothing to do with believing we are the only ones who can handle one, that it's some symbol of elitism to be aspired to; it's to do with being concerned for the safety of the tarantula and the potential owner.


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## zonbonzovi (Jun 24, 2014)

*Mod note*

uke:

Speaking of things that became unacceptable after the 5th grade...

Can we make an attempt to frame our arguments in a way that does not resort to name calling?  Try this: pretend for a moment that you're having this discussion with a toothsome 2.13 meter humanoid.  He drools blood when he speaks, has hands bigger then your chest and seems volatile and drunk.  Would you be discussing this, or any other topic for that matter, in the same fashion?  With that in mind, carry on...

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## gromgrom (Jun 25, 2014)

Belle Fury said:


> I am inclined to agree with you. When I showed him a Rhopalurus junceus and offered it up as a much more attractive buthid than a Leirus, his was response was that it's "not a deathstalker". :/ All things being equal, I'm much more into arachnids beyond just their looks or reputations than he is (funny thing there, when we go to meet people for transactions, they tend to address him and ignore me...but he couldn't tell you what an apophysis is, or where to locate the femur...or tell you the T in question's scientific name...)-he has an interest and for that I'm grateful...it's much better than being horrified of my collection. Most likely, taking everyone's advice into account and completely agreeing that he definitely wants one for the wrong reasons, I'm not sure if a Leirus will ever end up in my home, but I do also feel much more confident in the "not quite as dangerous" buthid-ownership now...which I do have a genuine interest in.
> 
> 
> Also...wow did it get heated in here fast. Not to wade too far into this, but I don't see going slow or people advising that myself or others do so as being elitist. Those of us on the tarantula side of things often advise people not to buy an OBT or an H.mac first thing and that has nothing to do with believing we are the only ones who can handle one, that it's some symbol of elitism to be aspired to; it's to do with being concerned for the safety of the tarantula and the potential owner.


Well the problem with tarantulas is that regardless of calcium or dirt deposit buildup, they can climb, and such their venom and bite, and their ability to escape, becomes a bigger danger. 

If he only wants a scorpion because it is "a" or "the" "deathstalker", he shouldn't keep scorpions. Period. It's all about the mentality and his reason for it, nothing with regards to his experience, although that immature perspective does come from primarily new hobbyists, and it's a very childish one. Remember being a child and begging for a toy only because it had some cool or fierce stigma with it? Point given, comparison made. 

Get him a junceus. Or a colorful Centruroides gracilis. Even if he could handle caring for a deathstalker, his blind childish reason should point you in a different direction. 

That is just my opinion. I dont condone childish behavior.

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## KDiiX (Jun 26, 2014)

I just can agree with gromgrom. Often I see that those people who want that scorpions for some sort of poser reasons are those who are less carefull. Often it's like they seem to wanna be a kind of Torero and live with the danger. 
If I would be in a relationship I wouldn't agree if my partner wants an animal just for one reason that isn't even visible but makes the animal more dangerous. If he would habe been interested in Androctonus sp .  or Parabuthus sp. I could have believed that it's for the "right" reason. Because they can look pretty impressive to many people. But the deathstalker is in my point of view a pretty boring scorpion, in looking and behaviour. For example Mesobuthus gibbosus is looking pretty similar but not dangerous to grown up healthy persons. For the Mesobuthus gibbosus no own shows interest... For me it's not understandable that obviously many people just choose their animals because they highly venomous. I don't want to say that everyone who has a deathstalker cares it just to have the most venomous scorpion in care, but I'm pretty sure for many that was the reason.


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## gromgrom (Jun 26, 2014)

KDiiX said:


> I just can agree with gromgrom. Often I see that those people who want that scorpions for some sort of poser reasons are those who are less carefull. Often it's like they seem to wanna be a kind of Torero and live with the danger.
> If I would be in a relationship I wouldn't agree if my partner wants an animal just for one reason that isn't even visible but makes the animal more dangerous. If he would habe been interested in Androctonus sp .  or Parabuthus sp. I could have believed that it's for the "right" reason. Because they can look pretty impressive to many people. But the deathstalker is in my point of view a pretty boring scorpion, in looking and behaviour. For example Mesobuthus gibbosus is looking pretty similar but not dangerous to grown up healthy persons. For the Mesobuthus gibbosus no own shows interest... For me it's not understandable that obviously many people just choose their animals because they highly venomous. I don't want to say that everyone who has a deathstalker cares it just to have the most venomous scorpion in care, but I'm pretty sure for many that was the reason.


Completely agree and it's the same on this side of the pond in terms of the mentality of "more dangerous" == "more cooler". Mesobuthus are hard to come by, but LQs are still thriving (somewhat). The US is really bad about the flavor of the month club when it comes to scorpions and will dump and kill the uncool specimen in favor of the new flavor. 2010-2011 was LQs, 2012-2013 was Rhopalurus, and now in 2014... with the hobby struggling I think its C. celebensis and H. franzwerneri...


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## KDiiX (Jun 29, 2014)

Well over here its nothing else with that sort of trendy species. In my experience it's pretty much about having new rare species over here. When I think 2011 or 2012 H.minusalta (back in the days uncorrectly named as H.saulcyi) came up in the European hobby everyone wanted some. They were pretty expensive for the fact they were imported in very high numbers. Maybe some people bought them for that reason to make the big money. Anyway the interest in that species decreased pretty heavily pretty fast. Nower days H.franzwerneri, H.jalalabadensis and H.buchariensis seem to be in most people favor. I would say at least for the next 9-12 month they still are and than there will come a new species that is interesting and everyone focuses on getting the new species. It's always the same and actually pretty sad, because it seems sometimes as if scorpion keeping and breeding could be compared with collecting rare postage stamps


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## Venom (Jul 8, 2014)

Elitism is not the reason we recommend beginners start with something that won't kill them for their first mistake. Safety is. Telling someone what to do and what not to do in order to avoid being stung is not enough to prevent all stings. Safety habits take time to become second nature...and until you get those habits ingrained into your interaction with the scorpion/ enclosure, it's a good idea not to raise the stakes so high that a mistake could be life-threatening (or an expensive Emergency Room trip....). Getting a less-toxic buthid is a great way to test your safety measures without putting your life on the line.

 If you manage to safely keep your first buthid for an extended time (i.e., with no stings), then evidently your safety procedures are good enough, and you'll be safe with a more dangerous scorpion. This is common sense. Don't learn to swim by jumping in the middle of the Atlantic. The attitude that thinks: "Well, if I just _tell_ the novice what to do, they'll do it perfectly--I've told them what to do so what could go wrong?" is not how the real world works. Practice makes perfect, so practice being safe before you buy a deadly creature. 

Personally I recommend Hottentotta hottentotta, H. caboverdensis, H. jayakari, Babycurus jacksoni, Buthacus leptochelys nitzani, Buthacus arenicola, Centuroides gracilis as good first buthid scorpions.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Olsin (Jul 9, 2014)

When you say "we" are you referring to all scorpion keepers or just the participants of this thread that have shown they agree with the type of sentiments you endorse?......i can't quite make my mind up. Using "we" comes over to me as if you're denying elitism exists within the hobby circuit or you're using an imaginary backup army of supporters to lend more credibility to your endorsements.

If you in fact meant to say that "you" would advise someone to take the standard road then we don't have a problem....fair enough, that's your opinion and i can respect a persons opinion.
If on the other hand you are using the royal "we" in an attempt to show that your opinion is the only one admissible then, yeh....i don't think i'm really that interested in whatever your opinion is.

I could pick your post apart and counter point for point from my own bag of common sense/extreme examples/arguments but what's the point!....truth is,  the OP has already demonstrated her mindset and made her opinion clear...arguing with you would just be for the sake of it and quite honestly, i can't be bothered..
If you reply with anything worthwhile that pips my interest or winds me sufficiently up i might carry on, otherwise this thread died a week and a half ago.


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## BigJ999 (Jul 18, 2014)

The thing with any dangerous invert is just be aware of what it is. I have Tityus spp. they are highly venomous but as you said common sense treat it like it can kill or hurt you. Deathies are actually very shy and would rather be left alone although their venom is extremely toxic.


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## Adiowns (Jul 18, 2014)

Honestly as a person that is new to the hobby, owning only one scorpion that isn't venomous enough to kill you or injure you has taught me to respect the creature. I think that if you are confident enough and have the experience required you still have to be mindful of the fact that anything can happen. You can get stung even if you have taken the correct safety steps, hell I wear leather gloves whenever I try to cup my hadrurus arizonensis. Not because I'm scared but because I have respect for the scorpion.

Although I have been thinking about getting a buthid as well, and I was thinking that a C. Gracilis was a good choice for a person moving on from the less venomous scorpions, as I do eventually want to buy a p. trans or even the rarer p. villosus. But that is way down the road

And as a last note, yes I'm new to the hobby. But I think any mindful person should treat any scorpion or tarantula with the respect that it deserves. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## darkness975 (Jul 20, 2014)

Right.  I have scorpions and tarantulas because I want them, not because I want to "sound cool" for owning them.  

I do want an LQ and A. bicolor some day, but I am not sure if I ever will just because of the fact that it would only take one incident to be potentially dangerous even if all necessary precautions are taken.


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## voldemort (Jul 24, 2014)

@ belle

If possible, if you can get some local buthids, start with them. In this scenario, the requirements in terms of temperature, availability (I always love inexpensive scorpions) and blueprint for a terrarium design will be easier than imported ones. I kept some buthids for some years now because I like the species and not because it is "cool", "fatal" and all those toddler infatuations.

Species from the Centruroides will be fine, they are quite active, not to mention their willingness to show off their hunting skills. On the imports, B. jacks and R. junceus are nicely colored and patterned. Heck my non - exotic keeper friends (even my wife) say they are fine specimens and just glance at the deadlier and more "macho" stuff (w/c were now sold) 

The last thing we should consider in keeping these lovely creations is impressing others.


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## CALovett (Jul 24, 2014)

I'm just going to go ahead and throw my hat in the ring for a _Centruroides sp._ 

Fun scorps, good "trainers" for getting used to handling procedures for hotter scorps.


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## pannaking22 (Jul 25, 2014)

I got a _P. imperator_, _C. gracilis_, and _H. trilineatus_ at the same time and didn't really have issues with any of them. That's because I respected all three and was prepared for if something went wrong. I actually had the most trouble from the _P. imperator_, but that just goes to show that any species can cause problems if not respected or the enclosure isn't properly set up. That one was in the least secure enclosure and it could reach the top corner if it got a head of steam before getting to the wall when I was feeding or doing maintenance. I wasn't stung or pinched or anything, but it served as a good experience and I learned quite a bit about scorpion movement from that. I kept the other two much more cautiously and made sure there wouldn't be any issues with them. Both are interesting in different ways, which makes keeping them interesting as well.

Someday I would like to get an _A. bicolor_, but that's going to be after I feel I've gained enough experience. I still classify myself as a beginner or perhaps a step or two above beginner. I doubt I'll keep an Lq because they don't seem to all that exciting, physically or behaviorally. But that's just my opinion 

To the OP, you can't go wrong with_Centruroides_ or _Hottentotta_! Though the _B. jacksoni_ would probably be good as well (I just don't have personal experience with those yet  )


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## wil123 (Jul 25, 2014)

Ill be honest with you and I dont care what other people think any one who wants to keep some thing as dangers as a L.quinquestriatus is stupid maybe yull think 
different when you have kids


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