# Major Sackage.......Klugi



## moose35 (Jul 6, 2008)

well i bred my klugi girl a few months ago.
she laid me a nice fat sac about 2 weeks ago.
i took the sac last night( she did not want to let it go. took about 30 minutes to get the sac away from her)

well here are some pics: got 3 cups of eggs......literally


anyone wanna count these?

enjoy


              moose


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## Talkenlate04 (Jul 6, 2008)

Oh my goodness gracious. You are in DEEP. I am going to guess near or over 3,000.


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## Veneficus (Jul 6, 2008)

Wow!  That's great, you're going to have your hands full.  I love the L. klugi and there aren't enough to go around (although I suspect there might be now, lol).   I have a 3" pair which I can't wait to grow up.


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## seanbond (Jul 6, 2008)

Talkenlate04 said:


> Oh my goodness gracious. You are in DEEP. I am going to guess near or over 3,000.


theres no way 3gs!


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## jeff1962 (Jul 6, 2008)

Thats awesome ! Hope you have plenty of deli cups or vials on hand ! :clap:


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## Talkenlate04 (Jul 6, 2008)

seanbond said:


> theres no way 3gs!


I would not be surprised if there were more. 

Try counting them...... I was using photo shop to put a color dot on each egg and lost count at 900 in one tub with more still to count.


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## seanbond (Jul 6, 2008)

thats ridiculous! this sp will always thrive!


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## Talkenlate04 (Jul 6, 2008)

I would cry. 

Tears of joy of course.


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## Stamper (Jul 6, 2008)

GOOD GOD that is alot of eggs 

I dont think ive ever seen that many eggs from one sac before 

wow...good luck


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## hardlucktattoo (Jul 6, 2008)

3k may be a little on the high side but there are at least 1500-2000


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## arrowhd (Jul 6, 2008)

Now that is an egg sack. :worship:


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## moose35 (Jul 7, 2008)

time to call thorton plastics and buy them out......:wall: 



anyone wanna help seperate them?    





                             moose


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## funnylori (Jul 7, 2008)

LOL! That's a ton of eggs! You could sell those by the teaspoon full! 

You'd be better off buying cheap-o deli cups from Cash and Carry... I got 1000 with lids for less than $30 (thank you Ryan for picking them up).


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## GForce14063 (Jul 7, 2008)

thats quite a haul you'll be busy once it time to transfer. Very nice I will keep my eye open for 10 or 20 of them when ready maybe more if the price is right.


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## Talkenlate04 (Jul 7, 2008)

I do have to ask how you know it is a Klugi lady? I only ask because it looks almost exactly like a L. parahybana. Just curious I guess.


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## Lucara (Jul 7, 2008)

Holy hell!  My bana girl is gravid (keeping fingers crossed). If she lays anything like that I might ahve to go in for therepy =P. Luckily I've ony got to keep half for myself =P

Good luck with seperating!


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## Anastasia (Jul 7, 2008)

Talkenlate04 said:


> I do have to ask how you know it is a Klugi lady? I only ask because it looks almost exactly like a L. parahybana. Just curious I guess.


and same question Klugi male? Moose got more pictures?


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## moose35 (Jul 7, 2008)

*MAMA pics*


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## equuskat (Jul 7, 2008)

HOLY CRAP I am with Ryan - looks too be between 2 and 3 thousand.  A TON of eggs...


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## Talkenlate04 (Jul 7, 2008)

I might be on crack but it looks like a L. parahybana. I guess you would know best though because you know where it came from. 
Any pics of the MM?


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## moose35 (Jul 7, 2008)

i'll post pics of the MM later


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## betuana (Jul 7, 2008)

My attempt to count is coming up with at least 2400 or so...though from what I can see there are probably some that I can't count...so 2.5-3k eggs sounds like a very probable guess to me!

Lots of eggs! Congrats - they'll keep you busy for a while.


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## pato_chacoana (Jul 8, 2008)

Nice spider! Lasiodora can be confusing sometimes, specially with pics only. I think however, that you have there a Lasiodora striatipes.

Best regards,
Pato.


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## Lucara (Jul 8, 2008)

looks like a fuzzball to me 

Either way, that disgusting thing should immediately be sent to me for proper "disposal".


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## GartenSpinnen (Jul 9, 2008)

I vote that its an L. parahybana, but i have been fooled before... if you bred them and ordered each separately from separate sources as L. klugi, then theres a good chance thats what you have though. But who knows these days. Not sure if there is a chance of an L. parahybana/L. klugi hybrid, but thats a whole different subject. 

Nice sac though .
Cheers


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## moose35 (Jul 9, 2008)

here is a pic of the male.

if you need more pics i can take them later.



           moose


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## robc (Jul 9, 2008)

Moose you have a Bana....

*here is my Lady:*







*Here is my MM:*







*I also had this MM:*


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## moose35 (Jul 10, 2008)

how many of you have even seen an adult female klugi?....in person....not in a picture.


 also a quick question.
does lasiodora parahybana have a fused spermathecae?






                moose


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## robc (Jul 10, 2008)

moose35 said:


> how many of you have even seen an adult female klugi?....in person....not in a picture.
> 
> 
> also a quick question.
> ...


I have.....they are very close in looks.....but in the pic it looks like a Bana.....rob


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## moose35 (Jul 10, 2008)

robc said:


> I have.....they are very close in looks.....but in the pic it looks like a Bana.....rob


anwser the second question i asked.....and then i'll be satisfied



             moose


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## robc (Jul 10, 2008)

moose35 said:


> anwser the second question i asked.....and then i'll be satisfied
> 
> 
> 
> moose


That I can't answer, sorry bro....oh how big is that T and when did it last molt.....rob


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## moose35 (Jul 10, 2008)

she's only about 7 inches and molted like 3-4 months ago.


   moose


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## robc (Jul 10, 2008)

moose35 said:


> she's only about 7 inches and molted like 3-4 months ago.
> 
> 
> moose


Do you have a fresh molt pic.....my big 10" bana was almost black when she molted, here she is:


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## syndicate (Jul 10, 2008)

i think the question should be how do you identify whats currently in the hobby as klugi?is whats present in the hobby as klugi actually even L.klugi hehe.these come to mind but unfourtunely i dont have answers for either.if your confused about the ID mabey post it on this forum.
http://www.the-t-store.co.uk/forum/index.php?showforum=2
someone there should be able to help i think.
oh BTW Moose u going to the show on sunday?
-Chris


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## Anastasia (Jul 10, 2008)

moose35 said:


> how many of you have even seen an adult female klugi?....in person....not in a picture.
> also a quick question.
> does lasiodora parahybana have a fused spermathecae?
> 
> moose


yes that is very tough those two look very alike
only way know she is Klugi
the shape of spermathecae
same with Male shape of Embolus


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## Avix4me (Jul 10, 2008)

I got to 842 when I lost count!


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## pato_chacoana (Jul 10, 2008)

Not L. parahybana for sure. It does look more L. klugi than L. parahybana. But at first sight it could be L. striatipes or L. difficilis to me. Moose could you post a spermathecae pic if you can? This could clear this up.. 

Anyway, good luck with the spiderlings!

Pato.


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## Zoltan (Jul 10, 2008)

moose35 said:


> also a quick question.
> does lasiodora parahybana have a fused spermathecae?


http://www.tarantulas.tropica.ru/files/images/spermatheca_1.jpg


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## Ice Cold Milk (Jul 10, 2008)

(edited post)
My original post, I was looking at Robc's pics...thought they were the OP's and I commented that I thought his MM was 100% like mine. :/
But I still agree that he has a klugi female based on his pic-
parahybana's are duller and darker colored overall in my experience. 



my vids of each, don't know if they'll help much to help you see:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pL3KmbneFI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcLHOV48PEg

but here's pic of the female klugi mated -


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## Veneficus (Jul 10, 2008)

pato_chacoana said:


> Not L. parahybana for sure. It does look more L. klugi than L. parahybana. But at first sight it could be L. striatipes or L. difficilis to me. Moose could you post a spermathecae pic if you can? This could clear this up..
> 
> Anyway, good luck with the spiderlings!
> 
> Pato.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but the L. klugi is much heavier set in the body compared to the L. difficilis and L. striatipes.


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## Anastasia (Jul 10, 2008)

Veneficus said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but the L. klugi is much heavier set in the body compared to the L. difficilis and L. striatipes.


That is correct, they are heavier spiders


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## pato_chacoana (Jul 10, 2008)

My L. striatipes is very heavy, but could well be that L. klugi are even heavier and a little larger. That's the thing about pics, they are confusing...anything can be anything with Lasiodoras. So maybe Moose's spider is a L. klugi after all haha  I just found her more similar to L. striatipes, by looking at the photos. But not close to a parahybana. That is just a guess from the pics.

Best regards,
Pato.


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## moose35 (Jul 13, 2008)

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/the.tarantula.store/spermgal-Lasiodora.htm


does this clear anything up?



                 moose


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## Talkenlate04 (Jul 13, 2008)

No not really. That looks like a wide gap between the Spermathecae. Heck I don't know. If you got them from somewhere legit then I bet they are what you say they are.


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## pato_chacoana (Jul 13, 2008)

Moose, take a look at this and the L. klugi spermathecae's of your link, tell me which one is closer to yours: (this pic was taken by myself)
To my surprise, your spermathecae is looking very similar to my L. parahyaba. I guess the photos light's changes real colors....








Maybe you have a L. difficilis, but I don't have a pic..... 

Pato.


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## ftorres (Jul 13, 2008)

Looks a lot closer to a L parahybana.

Perhaps clearer pictures will clarify the mistery.

francisco


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## moose35 (Jul 13, 2008)

i don't have the molt any longer.
i throw my molts out.
i have a few pics if anyone has good photo editing software and wants to try to touch them up. pm me for the pics.


@ pato hers looks CLOSER to the 1 on the left then the 1 on the right.

  (excuse my very basaic language here but its the best way for me to explain this): the little mickey mouse ears on my girls come out of 1 main trunk then split into 2 little ears.
 the para on the other hand seems to have 2 seperate ears.

   am i correct in this?


      moose


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## pato_chacoana (Jul 13, 2008)

Maybe the pic is confusing me, but I see yours a bit different from the L. striatipes. Yours has more ''long and separate'' ears from what I can see on the pic. It's almost like if it is a mix from the two in my photo.  

About the pic from that Site, I don't know really if it is correct. If it is, then yours is very different from it. Maybe another source for a L. klugi could appear?

Pato.


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## moose35 (Aug 3, 2008)

couple more mamma pics




















                  moose


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## pato_chacoana (Aug 3, 2008)

beautiful mom! how are the slings doing?


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## dannax (Aug 4, 2008)

Oooh, I would definitely take 5-10 of these when they're ready to rock 'n roll!

Until then, good luck with all of them! It's going to be interesting!


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## moose35 (Aug 4, 2008)

pato_chacoana said:


> beautiful mom! how are the slings doing?


should be getting ready to molt to 1st instars soon. they are starting to darken a little.




           moose


p.s. what does she look like in those pics?


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## pato_chacoana (Aug 4, 2008)

*Good to hear everything's going well.*

Well, taking in consideration spermathecae and tarantula pics, I think it's not L. parahybana and not L. striatipes... To me it's either Lasiodora difficilis or Lasiodora klugi ideed. If I have to choose one, I'd say L. difficilis.
Would help a lot if people with L. difficilis and L. klugi adults post pics. (spermathecae pics as well would be great)
Keep us updated!  

pato.


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## Sr. Chencho (Aug 4, 2008)

Moose,

How long from when the eggsack was laid did you pull the sack? Just curious.
Good luck with all those babies. We'll be shopping for some new slings, whatever they are, the "parents" look awesome.

Thanks for sharing,
Fredster
Lean, not as mean
Still US Marine!


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## moose35 (Aug 4, 2008)

Sr. Chencho said:


> Moose,
> 
> How long from when the eggsack was laid did you pull the sack? Just curious.
> Good luck with all those babies. We'll be shopping for some new slings, whatever they are, the "parents" look awesome.
> ...


i waited around 15-20 days....then got eggs with legs in about 10 days later

             moose


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## GoTerps (Aug 4, 2008)

Hi Pato,



pato_chacoana said:


> Well, taking in consideration spermathecae and tarantula pics, I think it's not L. parahybana and not L. striatipes.


According to Bertani, _L. stratipes_ will be declared _nomina dubia_ as the type is lost and the description not sufficient to make an id from.

Eric


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## pato_chacoana (Aug 4, 2008)

Hi Eric,

I thought Bertani wasn't working with taxonomy anymore, at least he is not in the Butantan anymore.
Well it keeps getting better with Lasiodora taxonomy I see! The type is lost? and no paratypes? I hope they collect a correct neotype... Weird things always going on with theraphosidae taxonomy.
Several genera needs serious revision.

best regards,

Pato.


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## reptist (Aug 5, 2008)

*L difficilis*

Here are some pix of a 5.5" female L difficilis as well as spermathacae from the same spider, if that helps any, PEACE,    B.

View attachment 72902

View attachment 72903

View attachment 72904


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## GoTerps (Aug 5, 2008)

Hi Pato,



> I thought Bertani wasn't working with taxonomy anymore


He is still very active!

DOWNLOAD THIS and look at page 65 for the abstract of the Lasiodora revision.  While not published yet, he reduces the number of species in the genus from 38 to 6.

Do a search for his last name within that document and you'll see how active he is!

Eric


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## Veneficus (Aug 5, 2008)

GoTerps said:


> Hi Pato,
> 
> He is still very active!
> 
> ...


Thanks for the information!  I wonder what species the L. striatipes and L. fracta currently in our hobby are going to become?  Especially since I have two of each.


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## aluras (Aug 5, 2008)

Veneficus said:


> Thanks for the information!  I wonder what species the L. striatipes and L. fracta currently in our hobby are going to become?  Especially since I have two of each.


 L. fracta? I still have not seen a pic of one of these,,,can you post one? :drool:


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## Veneficus (Aug 5, 2008)

aluras said:


> L. fracta? I still have not seen a pic of one of these,,,can you post one? :drool:


All I have are two slings right now.  Here is a picture of what a sub-adult is supposed to look like:  http://meyken.spiderlinge.de/?Galerie&pic=39&page=4


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## reptist (Aug 5, 2008)

*Pix*

This is about the best I can do on the klugi pix, they are from Volgelspinnen by Schmidt, and prob as good as a pic all told, deffinately knows his way around a species list, Cheers to the Germans!!!! PEACE,     B.

View attachment 72912


View attachment 72913


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## pato_chacoana (Aug 5, 2008)

Veneficus said:


> Thanks for the information!  I wonder what species the L. striatipes and L. fracta currently in our hobby are going to become?  Especially since I have two of each.


Thank's Eric. I'll take a look at it. Reducing to 6 species seems dramatic to me, but doesn't surprise me, as the same was attempted with Grammostola genus...with no success so far.

Veneficus, I think the important thing is to know the spider in question, but not so big deal the name, because it changes many times (as it always happens sooner or later in taxonomy). It's important to know there are different spiders and recognize them, mainly for successful and proper breeding in captivity, and obtain strong blood-lines.

Reptist, thank you for the info and photos. I'm not such a big fan of mr. Schmidt I must say, hehe. But it's interesting the how similar the spermathecae of L. difficilis and L. klugi seem to be..

Pato.


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## moose35 (Aug 5, 2008)

reptist said:


> This is about the best I can do on the klugi pix, they are from Volgelspinnen by Schmidt, and prob as good as a pic all told, deffinately knows his way around a species list, Cheers to the Germans!!!! PEACE,     B.


thanks very much ...but 1 thing thats hard to tell from the drawing.

are the spermathacae two seperate ears?  or are they 1 flap slightly fused at the bottom?

my curiosity is killing me

       moose


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## Veneficus (Aug 6, 2008)

pato_chacoana said:


> Veneficus, I think the important thing is to know the spider in question, but not so big deal the name, because it changes many times (as it always happens sooner or later in taxonomy). It's important to know there are different spiders and recognize them, mainly for successful and proper breeding in captivity, and obtain strong blood-lines.
> 
> Pato.


I am aware of tarantulas changing many times in their taxonomy; however, I am into breeding and I like the Lasiodora species, so I want to make sure to breed true.  While right now I can stick to the species which are still listed as such, later down the road I will need to know, especially if I want to find viable males. It's a problem I'm currently encountering with the Pamphobeteus species too.


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## Swifty (Aug 6, 2008)

moose35 said:


> should be getting ready to molt to 1st instars soon. they are starting to darken a little.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Call me a sceptic, but the eggs in the photos look dried out and no good. I've grabed sacs too early, and by the overall looks of things, I think you did too. I'm just asking for one photo that is current, showing a mass of post embryos, close to molting. Don't mean to be a jerk, it's just I see alot of people worrying about what species it is, but who cares if they are no good. Show me the "mother load", not eggs....

With massive love, Swifty


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## Talkenlate04 (Aug 6, 2008)

They look good to me. I am not to sure why you think that they look bad. 
I took these on day 7 and dumped them out of the sac like he did (I don't know what day he took his.) and they all hatched. My picture is brighter from my flash but our eggs look the same. I am sure he will post a picture of the little ones soon!


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## Anastasia (Aug 6, 2008)

Swifty said:


> Call me a sceptic, but the eggs in the photos look dried out and no good. I've grabed sacs too early, and by the overall looks of things, I think you did too. I'm just asking for one photo that is current, showing a mass of post embryos, close to molting. Don't mean to be a jerk, it's just I see alot of people worrying about what species it is, but who cares if they are no good. Show me the "mother load", not eggs....
> 
> With massive love, Swifty


straight to the point! atta Man!  



Talkenlate04 said:


> They look good to me. I am not to sure why you think that they look bad.
> I took these on day 7 and dumped them out of the sac like he did (I don't know what day he took his.) and they all hatched. My picture is brighter from my flash but our eggs look the same. I am sure he will post a picture of the little ones soon!


Mmmm, looks like a yellow caviar, yuam :drool:


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## Swifty (Aug 6, 2008)

Talkenlate04 said:


> They look good to me. I am not to sure why you think that they look bad.
> I took these on day 7 and dumped them out of the sac like he did (I don't know what day he took his.) and they all hatched. My picture is brighter from my flash but our eggs look the same. I am sure he will post a picture of the little ones soon!


It's nature man, and you got lucky...It takes a certain amout of days for sperm to soak into the eggs, but I'll bet you put them into an incubator of some sort, but the photos show open air flow, and too much of it, plus the female holding the eggsac looks far too dry. But who cares about all that, show me the babies....Those eggs are toast. I'll eat my hat no problem, but prove me wrong. At best a few may have pulled through. Back in 2002 I produced B. ruhnaui, now B. albiceps, and got anxious and grabed them too early, I got 6 good babies out of maybe 600. Again in the same year B. emilia, got 15 out of maybe 600. If Bryant Capiz was around, he would tell you the same thing,  but don't hate me because I'm beautiful, show me the babies...

Swifty


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## reptist (Aug 6, 2008)

Swifty said:


> If Bryant Capiz was around, he would tell you the same thing,


Those were the days, RIP Bryant!!! still best in the biz IMO, PEACE,    B.


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## moose35 (Aug 6, 2008)

Swifty said:


> Call me a sceptic, but the eggs in the photos look dried out and no good. I've grabed sacs too early, and by the overall looks of things, I think you did too. I'm just asking for one photo that is current, showing a mass of post embryos, close to molting. Don't mean to be a jerk, it's just I see alot of people worrying about what species it is, but who cares if they are no good. Show me the "mother load", not eggs....
> 
> With massive love, Swifty


i shouldn't need to post these but here is "PROOF"

she had the sac for at least 20 days before i pulled it from her also...(so i don't think that was too early)

here it is for the sceptic....


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## Hamburglar (Aug 6, 2008)

Awesome... well done.  If any of those should accidentally fall into an envelope with my name on it.....   go ahead and stick in the mail...


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## pato_chacoana (Aug 6, 2008)

Well, I guess there's the proof hehe  Well done...looking good!


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## Talkenlate04 (Aug 6, 2008)

> Bryant Capiz was around, he would tell you the same thing, but don't hate me because I'm beautiful, show me the babies...


Never heard of him. Is there anything online about him to read?


> It's nature man, and you got lucky


I have been taking all my sacs around the 10 day mark and it has gone fine so far with about a 98% hatch out rate to 2nd instar. The 2% mainly being molting issues or sibling related murdering. 
Plus I am pretty sure he had a lid on the setup. My incubation method is the exact same way. Anyway....... 


> i shouldn't need to post these but here is "PROOF"


It is still awesome to see updated pics! Look at all of them! :clap: Do you have your containers ready yet?


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## miarachnids (Aug 6, 2008)

reptist said:


> Those were the days, RIP Bryant!!! still best in the biz IMO, PEACE,    B.


I hear ya. I miss Bryant. RIP I got my first T from him.


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## Swifty (Aug 6, 2008)

moose35 said:


> i shouldn't need to post these but here is "PROOF"
> 
> she had the sac for at least 20 days before i pulled it from her also...(so i don't think that was too early)
> 
> here it is for the sceptic....


Ok, I'll start eating   Seriously though taking the sac is one thing, opening it too soon is another, and can doom them, so folks try it at your own risk. 
But hey, what do I know, I've only produced live viable offspring of 92 species of tarantulas to date, and many of them more than just once...like I said, what do I know?

Swifty


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## Hamburglar (Aug 6, 2008)

Swifty said:


> Ok, I'll start eating   Seriously though taking the sac is one thing, opening it too soon is another, and can doom them, so folks try it at your own risk.
> But hey, what do I know, I've only produced live viable offspring of 92 species of tarantulas to date, and many of them more than just once...like I said, what do I know?
> 
> Swifty


That is very impressive too... I cant even get a pair to approach each other...


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## Swifty (Aug 6, 2008)

moose35 said:


> i shouldn't need to post these but here is "PROOF"
> 
> she had the sac for at least 20 days before i pulled it from her also...(so i don't think that was too early)
> 
> here it is for the sceptic....


....Almost forgot, Way to go Moose! :worship:


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## Veneficus (Aug 6, 2008)

moose35 said:


> i shouldn't need to post these but here is "PROOF"


Awesome!!  Did you ever figure out how many you have?


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## Talkenlate04 (Aug 6, 2008)

Swifty said:


> like I said, what do I know? Swifty


It's what works for you works for you, and what works for me works for me.  
There is no ONE way to do something. 
There is good and better though, and I bet yours is better.


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## syndicate (Aug 6, 2008)

nice one moose.now you just have to figure out what they are lolz ;]
while G.Schmidt has described alot of t's we have  in the hobby alot of his work is very problematic.like creating new species from males collected or not examining or depositing any type material.hopefully someone helps you figure it out.
-Chris


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## pato_chacoana (Aug 6, 2008)

syndicate said:


> nice one moose.now you just have to figure out what they are lolz ;]
> while G.Schmidt has described alot of t's we have  in the hobby alot of his work is very problematic.like creating new species from males collected or not examining or depositing any type material.hopefully someone helps you figure it out.
> -Chris


Indeed. Most of he's ''great discoveries'' are proven wrong in time. Somethings are so amazingly incorrect that even seems to be on purpose.

pato.


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## matthias (Aug 7, 2008)

Talkenlate04 said:


> Never heard of him. Is there anything online about him to read?


He was before my time but apparently he was instrumental in the hobby (especially in Chicago) early on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdNXwnpogVs

This is OLD but kind of kewl

Congrats Moose, didn't mean to side track your thread.


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## Swifty (Aug 8, 2008)

Talkenlate04 said:


> It's what works for you works for you, and what works for me works for me.
> There is no ONE way to do something.
> There is good and better though, and I bet yours is better.


No, no I'm impressed! I haven't had very good results doing that, but hey if your kicking them out, don't listen to me 

Swifty


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## Drachenjager (Aug 9, 2008)

Hamburglar said:


> That is very impressive too... I cant even get a pair to approach each other...


i got G. rosea to approach each other, the male hooked the female who proceeded to drive him backwards and put her fangs through his carapace and into his abdomen and ate him.


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## bluefrogtat2 (Aug 12, 2008)

*rip*

first off congrats moose,love the lasi's
second appears to me to be a klugi as well
andy
rip bryant-great t man(the best)and a good friend
he is missed


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## aluras (Aug 28, 2008)

Any new news on The Klugi Slings MOOS? Just lookin for an update.


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## moose35 (Sep 21, 2008)

UPDATE:



the slings are now ready.

HERE IS THE LINK


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## bliss (Sep 21, 2008)

what's up moose?  congrats on the sac!

did you ever figure out if they were Klugi or another lasio sp? 

--dan--


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