# Questions about Predatory Mites



## Niffarious (Aug 30, 2012)

Hi all -

My apologies if these questions have been answered somewhere - I could not find the info I'm looking for.

I experienced an outbreak of grain mites after acquiring some for crickets from a local store. I seem to have them wiped out for the most part, but I think I found hypopus stage mites on my P. metallica. 

None of my other T's seem to have anything on them, just the one. 

I moved the tarantula to a new, dry environment but with a water dish. It has been a few weeks and there is no improvement, and the mites are clearly bothering the poor guy - I've watched him try to remove them. I don't think being dry is doing anything at all.

He also appears to be in pre-molt. Will molting help, or simply leave him more vulnerable?

I'm considering getting some predatory mites, however they are only sold in batches of 1000/$30. That seems like it would be FAR too many mites - although I do have a spider mite problem on a plant...and I suppose I could treat several enclosures just in case.

But - will the predatory mites irritate/stress the tarantula, especially if he is in pre-molt?
Most of my spiders are in my bedroom. Will I wind up with mites on everything?







He came out of hiding and was mashing his mouthparts and using his legs like he was trying to wipe them away (didn't look like normal grooming). He seemed agitated. If you look close at this photo, the grey mass between mouthparts = mites. 







I really have no idea how he got so many, and none of the others did.


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## Hobo (Aug 30, 2012)

My (used to be) male P. metallica has mites that have been with her for a few years now, and she's perfectly fine (so far).
When she molted, I actually saw them "jump ship" and crawl from the old exo to her new one as she was molting. But, they weren't as numerous as your appear to be.

Anyway, if you wanna give 'em a try (H. miles), I have the majority of a 1L shaker full of 'em that I ordered a while ago for my feeder bin and garden, and I can give you some. I have tried them in one actual tarantula enclosure to experiment; she doesn't seem to mind them. I can't vouch for their effectiveness though, as my feeder bin still seems to have a lot of grain mites. From what I've read, H. miles likes to stay in the ground and will rarely venture above to climb around, which would explain why the frass at the bottom still has pred mites, while I see the other kind wandering around everywhere else.


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## Stan Schultz (Aug 30, 2012)

Niffarious said:


> ... I experienced an outbreak of grain mites after acquiring some for crickets from a local store. I seem to have them wiped out for the most part, but I think I found hypopus stage mites on my P. metallica.
> 
> ...
> 
> I'm considering getting some predatory mites, however they are only sold in batches of 1000/$30. That seems like it would be FAR too many mites - although I do have a spider mite problem on a plant...and I suppose I could treat several enclosures just in case. ...


Get the predatory mites ASAP! (I'm presuming you're planning on breeding the male.) You already have grain mites wandering all over everything anyway. So, throw several tablespoons of the predatory mite/vermiculite mixture not only into the _metallica's_ cage, but also in everybody else's cage (if also damp) as well.

The predatory mites will exterminate the grain mites within a very few days. As the grain mites become scarce the predatory mites will turn on each other. A very few of them may survive, but no guarantees. Under no circumstances will they ever harm your tarantulas. Under no circumstances will there be enough of them to bother your tarantulas.

In cages with few or no grain mites, the predatory mites will merely run around in circles, feeding on whatever they can find, even each other, and eventually also disappear.

Then, you need to reevaluate your care regimen and make changes so this never happens again. For instance, the _metallica_ does not require a damp cage. (But, the grain mites, of course, do!) Like all other _Poecilotheria_, they'll adjust quite nicely to an arid cage as long as they have a large water dish to drink from. I never had a _metallica_, but had lots of _regalis_, _formosa_, and a few _rufilata_ and _subfusca_. Once they grow out of the baby stage, they do quite well in arid cages. And, I never had any problems with mites with them.

If you don't do this, you may likely be ordering another batch of predatory mites every six months or so. That's very troublesome and can get expensive.


Enjoy only the very largest of your little 8-legged darlings!


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## Niffarious (Aug 30, 2012)

Hobo, I'll PM you!

Pikaia: I keep my enclosures clean, and none are overly humid. At the time the grain mites exploded, I'd just got an order of crickets which then proceeded to die in droves. I've been in the reptile hobby for the better part of 20 years, and I know the care of my crickets was fine. After two incidents of high-mortality crickets I have ceased using this source for feeders. Anyway, despite my best efforts in cleaning, grain mites were suddenly a problem. I live in an area with a high relative humidity - for example, right now it's 77% and not even raining or anything.

None of the T's had (or have) enclosures that are dirty or too humid, and so the grain mite problem was relatively easy to correct - the exception of course being this specimen. His new enclosure is bone dry save the water dish, and it was never overly humid to begin with.

I will definitely get on it with the predatory mites. Thank you!


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## Stan Schultz (Aug 30, 2012)

Niffarious said:


> Hobo, I'll PM you!
> 
> Pikaia: I keep my enclosures clean, and none are overly humid. At the time the grain mites exploded, I'd just got an order of crickets which then proceeded to die in droves. I've been in the reptile hobby for the better part of 20 years, and I know the care of my crickets was fine. After two incidents of high-mortality crickets I have ceased using this source for feeders. Anyway, despite my best efforts in cleaning, grain mites were suddenly a problem. I live in an area with a high relative humidity - for example, right now it's 77% and not even raining or anything.
> 
> ...


Ahhh, Vancouver! Ya gotta love living in a rain forest, no? 'Nuff said.

But, the bare facts are that you now have inadvertently introduced an "invasive species" into your tarantula collection. And, it has amply proven that it can survive and thrive in spite of all your best efforts. In a worst case scenario, this might require you to establish a "clean room" somewhere that you regularly wipe down with some disinfectant (e.g., an extremely mild bleach water and dish soap solution), then one by one, clean and disinfect every cage and move it into the clean room. After the current room is empty you'd wipe it down as well, leave it empty as long as your housemates are willing to put up with this foolishness, then move your collection back into the original room again.

I certainly hope that you needn't do that, that what you're experiencing is a momentary "bloom" of mites that will soon dissipate with a little encouragement on your part.

Do you know that there is a predatory mite company in British Columbia? *Applied Bio-nomics*.


And, the war continues: One little 8-legged adversary against another!


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## Niffarious (Aug 30, 2012)

Well, I'm from the prairies...so sometimes I do get a bit tired of the rain and humidity. But then I remember I'm not in Edmonton and it's ok! 

Thank you for the suggestions!

I'm checking out that company - they seem to have several species of predatory mites. Are there more than one kind to use that are effective with T's?


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## Stan Schultz (Aug 30, 2012)

Niffarious said:


> Well, I'm from the prairies...so sometimes I do get a bit tired of the rain and humidity. But then I remember I'm not in Edmonton and it's ok!
> 
> Thank you for the suggestions!
> 
> I'm checking out that company - they seem to have several species of predatory mites. Are there more than one kind to use that are effective with T's?


The only one I've had any experience with is _Statiolaelaps scimitus_ (formerly called _Hypoaspis miles_). I've used them 2 or 3 times with excellent results. You might call the company and speak with one of their researchers or technicians, though. Be sure to take notes and be doubly sure to write up what you found out and either report it here, or send it in to the ATS' _Forum Magazine_ for publication.

*8-legged critters rule!*


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## syndicate (Aug 30, 2012)

Stan When you used predatory mites did they actually remove the bad mites off of the tarantula in question?I've found that as long as the "bad" mites aren't in to large of numbers on the actual tarantula they are often completely harmless..
-Chris


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## Niffarious (Aug 30, 2012)

I, too, have heard they _can_ be harmless, as really they are just hitching a ride. However, in the very little experience I have with this it is quite clear that they are bothering the tarantula and causing a certain degree of stress. If a solution can be found to safely eradicate them, that seems like it would be the thing to do.



> The only one I've had any experience with is Statiolaelaps scimitus (formerly called Hypoaspis miles). I've used them 2 or 3 times with excellent results. You might call the company and speak with one of their researchers or technicians, though. Be sure to take notes and be doubly sure to write up what you found out and either report it here, or send it in to the ATS' Forum Magazine for publication.


I'll be sure to give them a call and take some notes. Interestingly, this particular P. metallica, although slightly more than half grown, prefers to burrow. He has a 12"x12"x12" exoterra to call home with ample places to hide appropriate for a Poecilatheria. And...he made a burrow. So, if the predatory mites are indeed mostly terrestrial (as has been mentioned in this thread) that will not actually be an issue.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Stan Schultz (Aug 30, 2012)

syndicate said:


> Stan When you used predatory mites did they actually remove the bad mites off of the tarantula in question? ...


Yes. The predatory mites are very active and athletic. They crawl over, under, on top of, even through if they can, everything in the cage. _Statiolaelaps scimitus_ (formerly called _Hypoaspis miles_ are reddish in color, so they show up well. I could watch them scurrying around, although my eyesight wasn't good enough to see what they were doing when they stopped. 24 to 48 hours and all the non-predatory mites were no longer evident. Four days later I couldn't find any predatory mites either. Your mileage may vary because of individual circumstances.



syndicate said:


> ... I've found that as long as the "bad" mites aren't in to large of numbers on the actual tarantula they are often completely harmless..
> -Chris


Because, as laymen and barely being able to recognize a mite when we see one; and because we don't want to become acarologists, having enough trouble as it is just trying to keep a pet tarantula alive; and because common experience has amply shown that mites aren't necessary for the well being of our tarantulas; and at least one apparently very common species is deadly to tarantulas; my philosophy is "*Any mite is a bad mite.*" You've everything to lose and nothing to gain by sticking your head in the sand. *Kill the little !@#$%!*

Several years ago I was roundly chastised on one of these forums for voicing that opinion as vehemently as I do. My response is, "You're on the wrong forum, Bud!"


And, the war between the 8-legged legions continues!


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## syndicate (Aug 30, 2012)

So you have seen mites kill tarantulas then?Any references for that Stan?
-Chris


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## Stan Schultz (Aug 31, 2012)

syndicate said:


> So you have seen mites kill tarantulas then?Any references for that Stan?
> -Chris


Right off the top of my head, no. Just bitter experience very early on when I was still a newbie (still am, come to think of it!), there were no good books on tarantulas to rely on (why I wrote the TKG series in the first place), and I was infatuated with the 1960s back-to-nature lunacy.

Older is wiser.

But, if the OP ("Niffarious") doesn't do something PDQ, you're going to witness it first hand.

To put it rather bluntly, I am not the type who wants to go back to the land; I am the type who wants to go back to the hotel.
--Fran Lebowitz


And your little 8-legged buddy may likely have the same opinion!


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## Niffarious (Aug 31, 2012)

I think there are a lot of things don't kill a spider, but are not good for them - as with any organism. However, I'm in agreement - I think the stress of these critters (and potentially blocking the mouth?) would eventually lead to severe complications. Obviously I'm not about to let it get that far, and I should have my mites this weekend.

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## zonbonzovi (Aug 31, 2012)

Niffarious, do you have easy-ish access to CO2 via home made soda or whip cream dispenser/airsoft cartridges, etc?  I haven't used it for mites but as effective as it has been for sending other creatures to a brief nap, it may be a good solution for this problem.  Once your little ball 'o blue is knocked out the mites you may be able to gently brush them away with paintbrush/cotton swabs, etc.


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## Niffarious (Aug 31, 2012)

zonbonzovi said:


> Niffarious, do you have easy-ish access to CO2 via home made soda or whip cream dispenser/airsoft cartridges, etc?  I haven't used it for mites but as effective as it has been for sending other creatures to a brief nap, it may be a good solution for this problem.  Once your little ball 'o blue is knocked out the mites you may be able to gently brush them away with paintbrush/cotton swabs, etc.


I do, but I decided I did not want to risk it. I should have mites in hand tomorrow, and I'd like to treat all my enclosures as a precautionary measure anyway. Will make sure the dubia are treated as well.
I wish some of my T's had a better response to them, so I could get rid of crickets altogether. Sadly the closest source for crickets to me has a bad reputation for this, and I don't have enough T's to warrant a large order from a supplier, as I used to do when I had reptiles.  Wish more places would start providing jamaican crickets...


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## dactylus (Sep 1, 2012)

Niffarious said:


> I do, but I decided I did not want to risk it. I should have mites in hand tomorrow, and I'd like to treat all my enclosures as a precautionary measure anyway. Will make sure the dubia are treated as well.
> I wish some of my T's had a better response to them, so I could get rid of crickets altogether. Sadly the closest source for crickets to me has a bad reputation for this, and I don't have enough T's to warrant a large order from a supplier, as I used to do when I had reptiles.  Wish more places would start providing jamaican crickets...


I had a positive experience using predatory mites to reign in a grain mite outbreak in several of my spider enclosures a number of years ago.  I tried the "drying out the cage" routine but to little avail.  The Hypoaspis miles did their job and I would recommend them as well.

I became a firm believer in drier cages in general and the use of waterbowls after that bad mite experience.  Grain mites, snake mites.  I despise them both.

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## Anonymity82 (Sep 1, 2012)

This may sound ridiculous but I'm pretty sure I read this in a book. I've read that the owner/writer put the infested scorpions under water for about half an hour to kill off the mites but it's not long enough to kill the scorpion. I'm not advertising this method, just curious if anybody has heard of this. 

Has anyone heard of this?


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## Niffarious (Sep 1, 2012)

I just read about someone doing that in another thread. Again, it seems so risky and stressful - while the mites might take a bit more effort and cost to find, I'd MUCH rather do that. Besides, I can use them to treat everything (ALL spiders and enclosures, just in case) with minimal if any stress to my specimens.


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## Anonymity82 (Sep 2, 2012)

Personally, the idea of predatory mites declaring full on gorilla warfare is much more exciting!


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## RobynTRR (Sep 3, 2012)

I'm interested in the outcome on this with the predatory mites. Watching...


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## MaskFac3 (Sep 3, 2012)

I was cleaning by c ritae out yesterday (due to mouldy eco earth :/) and I saw a couple of mites on the bark in the ts enclosure. I cleaned the cage with boiling water, baked the wood at 200 and used dry substrate with a water dish. It wasn't an infestation as far as I could see. Will it be fine?


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## Hobo (Sep 3, 2012)

Yeah it'll be fine.


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## Anonymity82 (Sep 3, 2012)

And if not, you know what to do!


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## z32upgrader (Feb 7, 2013)

So, I was filming my P. irminia molting yesterday, and when playing the footage back at high speed, it was obvious my P. irminia was not alone in his/her enclosure.  Are these the good mites or bad mites?  They seem to be coming from the moss glued to the cork bark.
[YOUTUBE]x-BTWm2YEas[/YOUTUBE]


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## Stan Schultz (Feb 22, 2013)

z32upgrader said:


> So, I was filming my P. irminia molting yesterday, and when playing the footage back at high speed, it was obvious my P. irminia was not alone in his/her enclosure.  Are these the good mites or bad mites?  ...


It's impossible to tell without an acarologist looking at them under a microscope. I'm not even entirely sure that there are any "harmless" mites. Every species capable of infesting a tarantula's cage is potentially dangerous in large enough swarms.



z32upgrader said:


> They seem to be coming from the moss glued to the cork bark. ...


They're merely living in the moss, it has nothing to do with causing a mite infestation. The mites probably came in on crickets (far and away the commonest scenario) and have taken up residence there. I'd move the tarantula into another, clean cage and burn the old, infested cup before the mites spread to everything else in the house. See also *Mighty Mites* for more information and how to get rid of a massive infestation.


And the war among 8-legged critters wages on!


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