# Centruroides Thread



## Ythier (Jan 27, 2005)

Hi,

It's seems that there are some confusion in some "big" Centruroides spp currently because we received recently some new species (essentially in EU, sorry over-seas friends  )

So I thought that we could post in this Thread the pics of adults or subadults "big" Centruroides spp we have.

Examples :
-C.gracilis and C.margaritatus (only if we are sure of the species)
-C.limbatus (black, typical and rubricauda morphs - only if we are sure of the species)
-"C.bicolor" (the species we received in Europe recently)
-"C.nigrimanus" (again a species sold recently in EU)
-And perhaps also pics of other specimens (adults or subadults) that we don't know the species : perhaps others will be able to help in the identification of it.

It should be also very useful if we could mention the sex of the specimen.

Perhaps that with this Thread we will be able to ID better the C.gracilis and margaritatus on picture, and we will be able to do ID the "new species" like C.limbatus ssp, bicolor, nigrimanus and others (it's always ennoying when someone do a bad identification of a new species, reproduce it and then diffuse the babies to many people with this wrong name).

Ok now I'm waiting for your opinion !  
Greetings,
Eric


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## skinheaddave (Jan 27, 2005)

Ythier said:
			
		

> Ok now I'm waiting for your opinion !


Okay, my opinion:  I have a lot of papers on this genus.  In fact, it is the only genus that has a completely seperate file just for its papers.  Back when I had just a couple papers, I was pretty sure of some of my IDs.  Now that I have a lot more, and have seen a lot more specimens, I have come to the conclusion that Centruroides ID is messed up.  There are very few species which I can ID with any certainty.  C.margaritatus in particular is prevelent within the trade but is highly polymorphic, both superficially and in detail.  I have seen several specimens which fit C.margaritatus better than any other species, but show variations that could be considered outside of any description.  In many ways this is the Avicularia of the scorpion world and I don't know how successful these IDing efforts will be.

Cheers,
Dave


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## SpaceHawk (Jan 27, 2005)

It may be good for people who know what they are looking at, but not so good for novices or people who don't keep a whole lot of Centruoides spp.  I don't know what to look for in a lot of species of scorpions to identify them,  but it may help me to learn something.  Birds/reptiles...I know...scorpions are like having to memorize the whole phone book.  You have to obsess about one family of scorpions and learn about them, then move on to next group just to retain it all and be able to know what to look for without a doubt.  There sure are a lot of them out there, especially for this group...it would be a big thread.


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## smalltime (Jan 27, 2005)

It would be usefull anyway to compare photo's from supposedly the same species.  A good idea...


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## G. Carnell (Jan 27, 2005)

and for lovely pics of centruroides species 

whats this C.nigrimanus? *waits for pics*


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## fusion121 (Jan 27, 2005)

Good idea, I've IDed these guys using the info I could find and I'm pretty sure all the names are correct. But as people have said they are not easy to ID. One thing that seems to often conflict/vary in papers is carinae patterns on the prosoma. (sorry big pics)

Centruroides gracilis female:






Centruroides limbatus female:






Centruroides limbatus male:






Centruroides bicolor 4th instar male:


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## Brian S (Jan 27, 2005)

These were labeled as C limbatus but they look more like gracilis to me. Any ideas?


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## SpaceHawk (Jan 27, 2005)

Definitly for the pictures!  Pictures are always good (even if I don't know what it is).


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## skinheaddave (Jan 27, 2005)

fusion121 said:
			
		

> Centruroides bicolor 4th instar male:


How sure are you about this?  I got some "C.bicolor" that looked just like this but details like denticles were way off any description of C.bicolor that I could find.  I ended up pegging them as a very neat morph of C.margaritatus (incidentally, I currently have about 60 of these due to some births). 

Cheers,
Dave


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## fusion121 (Jan 27, 2005)

With these guys I'm not at all sure. I don't have any original papers for C. bicolor, there was some debate about them a while back and the taxonomy seems rather screwy (http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=34496). Alex posted some excellent ID characters of bicolor and margaritatus, neither of which seemed to fit this species exactly. It was sold to me as C. bicolor so I've kept it labeled as that till they mature, when hopefully they'll be easier to ID and I'll have some time to visit the BAS library (sorry I should have made that clear on the picture). As a note I counted 8 rows of denticles on one of the 2nd instars I had, I'll try and recount now they are larger.


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## fusion121 (Jan 27, 2005)

As a little evidence for the C. bicolor case heres a picture of a C. bicolor adult and scorpling (between which there is a great deal of variation), as you can see the scorpling colouration is very similar to the one I posted and the adult my scorpling came from looks identical to the adult in this picture. The one is this picture was ID'ed by Stockwell (so I'm assuming it rights) and comes from his old site (the site is no longer online and so I can't post a link):






Of course I realise this kind of evidence is of a purely superficial nature.


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## G. Carnell (Jan 27, 2005)

thats a very very beautiful scorp.....

i like the way the babies have a kind of "spine" colouration, makes they look evil


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## Ythier (Jan 27, 2005)

fusion121 said:
			
		

> As a little evidence for the C. bicolor case heres a picture of a C. bicolor adult and scorpling (between which there is a great deal of variation), as you can see the scorpling colouration is very similar to the one I posted and the adult my scorpling came from looks identical to the adult in this picture. The one is this picture was ID'ed by Stockwell (so I'm assuming it rights) and comes from his old site (the site is no longer online and so I can't post a link):
> 
> Of course I realise this kind of evidence is of a purely superficial nature.


Hi,
I have the same species of you (and of Alex, and of many guys in EU now).
I saw also the mother of our specimens and it looked like a lot to C.bicolor. So I was totally agree to say that we have C.bicolor.
But as Alex said in the past thread, it's definitively not this species, because of the denticles and pectines. I just looked to a molt and I confirm again the number of denticles (8) and pectines teeths (29, so between 24-34).
So regarding the Franke & Stockwell, it's neither C.bicolor nor C.limbatus (denticles 9), and neither C.koesteri nor C.thorelli (pectines 21-26 and 12-14), so I agree with Dave and Alex for a different morph of C.margaritatus (denticles 8, pectines 24-34).
For Alex in the past thread, the granulation of margaritatus's chelae didn't correspond... I can't reply on this point because my specimens are still young and the granulation is still very simple, but compared to number of denticles/pectines teeths, I don't think granulation is very important, and in the Franke & Stockwell the draws compare a female margaritatus to a male bicolor, so...
Ok I agree with Alex and Dave for a "Costa-rican morph" of C.margaritatus.
Greetings,
Eric


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## fusion121 (Jan 27, 2005)

Hi
That sounds perfectly sensible, I'm willing to go with general consensus of the experts, though now I'll have to print new labels 

Excellent macros by the way


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## Ythier (Jan 27, 2005)

Some other pics (that I'm sure of the ID) :

Female C.margaritatus from Colombia :






Male C.margaritatus from Honduras (btw, margaritatus isn't listed from Honduras in the Fet  ) :






Couple C.gracilis from Colombia :






Another couple from Colombia (...the male is very different from the one on the previous picture !)






Comparison of females gracilis/margaritatus :






...


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## Ythier (Jan 27, 2005)

...and 3 others (sorry for the big copyrights but pics are not mine - thanks Patrick, thanks Giorgio).

THE mother margaritatus from Costa Rica (mm...looks like a C.bicolor   )






Again...






And a male C.limbatus typical morph.






Greetings,
Eric


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## Ythier (Jan 27, 2005)

fusion121 said:
			
		

> now I'll have to print new labels


...I will have to change all the pics on my website


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## fusion121 (Jan 27, 2005)

Great pics, the colour variations in Centruroides are immense, C. limbatus alone seems to range from bright yellow to pitch black


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## Tityus (Jan 27, 2005)

Hi Eric 

Very Nice pictures when can I come shopping with a big bag at your home  :}   :worship:  :worship:  :worship:

I hope you will make a scorpion book and share some of your knowledge I order directly 2 books  :clap:


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## Ythier (Jan 27, 2005)

fusion121 said:
			
		

> C. limbatus alone seems to range from bright yellow to pitch black


But you have also a yellow limbatus, no ?
Btw I forgot to say, I have some adult males and females gracilis of 7-8cm (0,3in) and, coming from the same brood, I have some adult males and females of only 3-4cm (1,4in) ! I thought that they were young but they didn't want to grow, so I put them together, and they mate !  
First time I see such little adults gracilis, it seems that this species, such as margaritatus, is quite variable


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## fusion121 (Jan 27, 2005)

Ythier said:
			
		

> But you have also a yellow limbatus, no ?


Yes I'm breeding to two, its just interesting that superficially they are nothing alike:
My breeding of C.limbatus again:


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## Ythier (Jan 27, 2005)

Brian S said:
			
		

> These were labeled as C limbatus but they look more like gracilis to me. Any ideas?


Difficult to say (at least for me). If you could take a macro of the rows of granules on the fix finger...


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## Ythier (Jan 27, 2005)

fusion121 said:
			
		

> Yes I'm breeding to two, its just interesting that superficially they are nothing alike:
> My breeding of C.limbatus again:


Yes I remember this great, funny and very interesting pic :clap: 
Please let us know the colour of the young !
Greetings,
Eric


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## fusion121 (Jan 27, 2005)

In the case the male is quite a bit bigger then the female, which seems to be unusual in Centruroides.


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## Ythier (Jan 27, 2005)

True...
Do you know if it's your male which is quite big, or your female which is quite little ?


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## fusion121 (Jan 27, 2005)

Ythier said:
			
		

> True...
> Do you know if it's your male which is quite big, or your female which is quite little ?


  I don't have other data on adults to compare against unfortunately


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## Nazgul (Jan 27, 2005)

Hi,

a short note according the C. "bicolor": I think it´s best to call them Centruroides cf margaritatus. As Eric said it´s the species which fits most. The first males of my specimens molted to maturity. With the females I´m not sure although they are already bigger than the males (at least the ones which molted as often as the males). The males made some mating attempts also when I put them together. But I don´t think one of the couples mated successfully because I didn´t find a spermatophore. The only evident difference to C. margaritatus is the fact that the males are having much more bulbous chelae than the females. Probabely the females will molt one more time and will develope bulbous chelae as well. 

Greetings
Alex


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## SpaceHawk (Jan 27, 2005)

Ythier,  you must have a really good camera,  your pictures always look really good.


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## Kugellager (Jan 28, 2005)

These are both the same female C.margaritatas.  Not sure of the locale of origin. The red coloration in this colormorph was amazing.

John
];')


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## Ythier (Jan 28, 2005)

Nazgul said:
			
		

> Probabely the females will molt one more time and will develope bulbous chelae as well.
> Greetings
> Alex


I think, because usually the adult females margaritatus have quite big hands, no ? (at least compared to gracilis or others).
Btw Alex, what about your "C.sp.nigrimanus" ?  
Thanks,
Eric


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## Ythier (Jan 28, 2005)

Kugellager said:
			
		

> These are both the same female C.margaritatas.  Not sure of the locale of origin. The red coloration in this colormorph was amazing.
> John
> ];')


Ok I didn't see the photo before replying, so the females margaritatus have definitely quite big hands !


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## Ythier (Jan 28, 2005)

SpaceHawk said:
			
		

> Ythier,  you must have a really good camera,  your pictures always look really good.


Thanks, but if you talk about the two macro pics (I think, because I don't think my other pics are good on this thread), I took them with a steromicroscope, not with my camera.
Greetings,
Eric


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## SpaceHawk (Jan 29, 2005)

Still, all the pics I have seen of yours are very good.  I need a new camera so I can take some pictures that are not blurry or too dark.  My camera really stinks. :wall:


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## Nikos (Feb 16, 2005)

I have found a site with info on the endemic to Costa Rica Centruroides spp.

The site is in Spanish so is anyone can speak Spanish, and has the time, can translate the taxonomic descriptions for us.

Here is the link:
http://darnis.inbio.ac.cr/ubis/FMPro? 

The info in there is by Carlos Viquez.


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## smalltime (Feb 16, 2005)

You can also take his book Costa Rica Scorpions and read it there...same thing AND translated...


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## Ythier (Feb 16, 2005)

It seems to be unfortunately out of print...


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## smalltime (Feb 16, 2005)

It is surprisingly enough not very informative...no pectine, granule or whatever counts, mostly descriptions of colors, size, terra typica and locality. Nice pictures (most are on Scorpion Files though...) and a few local myths on scorpions.

BTW Eric, you can still visit your library....


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## Nikos (Feb 20, 2005)

Here are some photos of an un-ID centruroides sp. from Honduras.
Any ideas?

I have the same photos in bigger format with more details in case that might help.
First there are 4 photos of a speciment that molted before 2 days.

By the way this one had it's aculeus broken and surpisingly I noticed that it's regenerating!! After the last molt he has a new one but noticably smaller than the original one, but it's a good start.


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## Nikos (Feb 20, 2005)

Next 4 more photos of a speciment that molted about 10 days earlier than the previous one in order for you to see the change in coloration.

And last one photo of the exoskeletons side by side.
Any ideas?


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## Michael (Feb 20, 2005)

Hi Vardoulas

I think Centruroides margaritatus, no?


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## Ythier (Feb 20, 2005)

I think too, but......... 
I don't think to C.limbatus, and I don't know what does C.nigrimanus looks like...
Did you count rows of granules on tibia finger ?


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## Kaos (Feb 20, 2005)

I have two of the same spp. and I have counted seven :?  Also the adult female of this spp. is 5-6 cm. isn't C. margaritatus supposed to be bigger?


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## Ythier (Feb 21, 2005)

Kaos said:
			
		

> I have two of the same spp. and I have counted seven :?


Seven ? Did not you forget one ? :? 



			
				Kaos said:
			
		

> Also the adult female of this spp. is 5-6 cm. isn't C. margaritatus supposed to be bigger?


I got some adult males and females magaritatus...of 4 cm !! I thought that they were still young, but they did not want to molt, and some of them did not want to eat (the males), so I put them together...and they mate...and they make babies 
The species was margaritatus for sure, the mother of these little specimens was quite big (about 8cm). Size seems to be very variable in C.margaritatus...and perhaps other spp, because I have currently a little C.gracilis (also about 4cm), very thin, with a long and thin metasoma, and which did not want to eat...perhaps a little male ?


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## Nikos (Feb 21, 2005)

No I haven't Eric.
I don't have a microscope or a scanner so I can only take photos with my camera and then try to count them which is not very workable nor entertaining....


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## Nazgul (Feb 21, 2005)

Nazgul said:
			
		

> ...Probabely the females will molt one more time and will develope bulbous chelae as well...


Hi,

one of the females molted one more time and indeed developed very bulbous chelae. It´s huge now like C. margaritatus females. And a lot of other morphological characteristics lead to C. margaritatus as well. Here´s a pic of an adulte male and the more or less freshly molted female. The female is a lot bigger than the male.

Greetings
Alex


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## smalltime (Feb 21, 2005)

Yes Alex, that does look like a margaritatus to me aswell....

When I compare it to the picture ffrom Kovarik's book, Stiri, the bulbous part of the pincher is bigger than that portrait as bicolor. Also that part seems to have a less granule surface and/or ridge....

All aside though....PRETTY!!!

I'm glad I bought these anyways....


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## fusion121 (Feb 21, 2005)

Very pretty, I wonder whether the C.nigrimanus on the market are just the same morph of C. margaritatus mislabled.


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## Ythier (Feb 22, 2005)

good pics Alex, so it's margaritatus for sure now


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## smalltime (Feb 22, 2005)

fusion121 said:
			
		

> Very pretty, I wonder whether the C.nigrimanus on the market are just the same morph of C. margaritatus mislabled.



Yes I think Alex had some aswell....


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## Nazgul (Feb 22, 2005)

Hi,

yes, I do have some of those C. "nigrimanus". They weren´t really determined by the way. I talked to the guy who first bred them.  A year ago a lot of Centruroides spp had been imported to Germany. Most of them turned out to be C. gracilis and C. margaritatus (at least the ones I´ve seen). The guy bought some and a he determined one pair as C. nigrimanus just because of their unusual colouration. He only used pictures he found on the net. So it´s maybe just C. margaritatus or C. gracilis again. My specimens are still too small to be examined in detail but due to the colouration it´s definitely not the same morph as the bicolor-margaritatus. I´ll post some pics after their next molts.

Greetings
Alex


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## fusion121 (Feb 22, 2005)

I'd be interested to see


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## Ythier (Feb 22, 2005)

Of course, when the seller is not able to ID his scorpions...he will sell better a Centruroides "nigrimanus" or "bicolor" than a "margaritatus from Honduras or Costa-Rica"...


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## fusion121 (Feb 22, 2005)

Ythier said:
			
		

> Of course, when the seller is not able to ID his scorpions...he will sell better a Centruroides "nigrimanus" or "bicolor" than a "margaritatus from Honduras or Costa-Rica"...


Yes  , thats why I haven't brought any of the nigrimanus I've seen for sale, I was sure they would be the same morph of margaritatus as the C. bicolor.


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## G. Carnell (Feb 22, 2005)

Nazgul said:
			
		

> Hi,
> 
> one of the females molted one more time and indeed developed very bulbous chelae. It´s huge now like C. margaritatus females. And a lot of other morphological characteristics lead to C. margaritatus as well. Here´s a pic of an adulte male and the more or less freshly molted female. The female is a lot bigger than the male.
> 
> ...



that male is more appealing than all Tityus species i have ever seen on the net, wicked scorp!


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## fusion121 (Feb 23, 2005)

The last of my C. margaritatus (bicolor morph) just moulted to 5th instar, this is a female too, it looks a bit different to yours Alex.


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## Nazgul (Feb 23, 2005)

Hi,

some of males are coloured very similar and this one looks definitely like a male to me due to the thin metasoma segments. Also 5. instar would mean it only took 4 molts to adulthood. Are you sure? 

I think my specimens were in 2. and 3. instar when I got them. I´ve got 5 adult males by now, 3 of them molted 3 times in my possession and 2 of them 4 times. Furtheron I´ve got one adult female which molted 4 times and 3 subadult specimens of which 2 molted 3 times and one 4 times. All of the adult males are having 30 pectinal teeth. The adult female and the subadult ones are having 27 - 29 pectinal teeth. Therefor and because of the longer period of post-embryonal development (the last male molted to maturity in the beginning of February) I´m expecting all 3 of them to turn out to be females. This would mean of 4 females 3 molted 4 times and one 5 times. Assuming that I got the scorplings in 2. and 3. instar I guess males are reaching maturity in 6. instar and females in 7. instar. That´s very likely cause that´s the way in many other Centruroides spp as well.

Greetings
Alex


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## Ythier (Feb 24, 2005)

...Dr Alex : "C.margaritatus specialist"   :clap:


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## fusion121 (Feb 24, 2005)

Nazgul said:
			
		

> Hi,
> 
> some of males are coloured very similar and this one looks definitely like a male to me due to the thin metasoma segments. Also 5. instar would mean it only took 4 molts to adulthood. Are you sure?
> 
> ...



Hi 
It could well be a male, as I haven't done a pectinal tooth count, I assumed it was female as its metasoma seemed shorter in comparison to some of the others. I'm pretty sure its 5th instar, problem is I don't know for sure that it was 2nd instar when I got it, going on it size I'm relatively confidant it was. I'm expecting it will moult again as its still small for an adult Centruroides. Thanks for the pectine counts  .


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## Nikos (Mar 3, 2005)

Here ar some photos from a freind of mine who is 99% sure that these are c.nigrimanus.
The speciments originate from Honduras.
The photos belong to Marc Fergin.

Please share your thoughts about them.


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## Nazgul (Mar 3, 2005)

Hi,

my opinion is

1. it is impossible to ID Centruroides spp just by pictures (if the pics aren´t detaild macro shots of certain parts)
2. I know for sure that the guy who took the pics just determined his specimens by using pictures on the net (cause he told me). Therefor I´m not so sure about the correct determination.

@fusion: Your specimens on the picture seems to be subadult otherwise the chelae would be more bulbous. If it´s really 5. instar it should be definitely a female as they are reaching maturity in 6. instar. It should develope a bigger metasoma and more bulbous chelae after the next molt. My guess that it´s a male should be wrong then.

Greetings
Alex


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## Nazgul (Mar 14, 2005)

Hi,

here´s a pic of one of my juvenile C. "nigrimanus". I examined the denticle rows of fixed and movebale finger of one specimen and the result was 8/8. Furtheron I counted pectinal teeth of 6 specimens and the result is 31 - 35 whereas the average is 32. I talked to Marc again and he told me the reason why he´s sure it´s no C. margaritatus is that the adults are having less bulbous chelae. Denticle rows of 8/8 could lead to C. margaritatus but the pectinal tooth count is little bit to high. In margaritatus it´s 24 - 31 (or so) and the average is below 32. Marc also told me that all of his adults are having at least 30 pectinal teeth, most of them more. Therefor I´m convinced that it´s not C. margaritatus but I´ve no idea which species then. I tired to use the Stahnke key but no species fit. C. nigrimanus isn´t listed in it though.

Greetings
Alex


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## Christoph (Mar 20, 2005)

Hi,
What species could this be?It was sold as Centruroides spec. "Honduras"


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## 423 (Mar 20, 2005)

The only Centruroides species in Honduras seems to be C. gracilis, C. limbatus, C. margaritatus, C. nigrimanus and C. schmidti and in my opinion it resembles the one on Alex's picture on top of this page. Just a little darker though. Could be a margaritatus I guess, they seem popular in this thread


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## fusion121 (Mar 20, 2005)

It looks alot like a resonably freshly moulted C. gracilis to me. But frankly it seems that there is so much variation in Centruroides so who knows


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## Nazgul (Mar 20, 2005)

Hi,

I agree with Oliver. Looks like a C. gracilis.  But as Oliver said most Centruroides spp are almost impossible to id by pics. You should count the denticle rows on a molt. Is it an adult specimen? If so you could eliminate C. margaritatus because of the more or less slender chelae. By the way, the specimen on my pic above is definitely no C. gracilis and most likely no C. margaritatus.

Regards
Alex


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## Christoph (Mar 22, 2005)

Hi Alex,
I think also it's C. gracilis
It's ~4cm 
My female have 9 denticle rows.


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## Nazgul (Mar 22, 2005)

Hi Christoph,

on the fixed or on the movable finger?

Regards
Alex


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## TheNothing (Mar 22, 2005)

before I go throwing up more pictures of my Centruroides margaritatus, how might I be able to tell for sure?

It was sold to me as such (C.m.) and was captive bred.  I've questioned its ID before, especially when browsing through pictures of other Centruroides.

the few pics i have can be found here
i'm working on loading a couple HiRes versions before i get out of work...


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## Christoph (Mar 23, 2005)

Hi Alex,
On the movable finger.




			
				Nazgul said:
			
		

> Hi Christoph,
> 
> on the fixed or on the movable finger?
> 
> ...


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## smalltime (Mar 25, 2005)

Here's another what seems to be Centruroides margaritatus scorpling Wild Capture from Costa-Rica (denticles 8) It had molted a while back so does colors are permanent: a 2-color tail light up and dark under, dark mesosoma, and fading colors on the legs...
Sorry for the poor pic, I'll replace it later with a better one...


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## Mantid Mafia (Mar 26, 2005)

C.gracilis..sorry for the bad pic


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## Nazgul (Apr 6, 2005)

Hi,

I tried again to id the "nigrimanus" using the Stahnke & Calos key. This time I had bigger molts for examination (my biocular has just 30x magnification). I came to the conclusion that the number of rows on the movable finger is not 8 but 9 as Stahnke´s definition "...[with nine rows] or seven rows plus a coalesced row and a short apical row." matches exactly. This again led me clearly to C. nigrimanus. My statement above that this species is not listed is complete nonsense. I was just too blind to find it cause I took the wrong path in the first step which led to a totally wrong direction.

Also C. nigrimanus is the species with the highest average number of pectinal teeth in the list. This is another hint for a correct determination. I count the teeth of some more of my specimens and the average number went from 32 to 34.

Furtheron I tried to determine the Centruroides sp. Nikos is keeping. The Stahnke key led to C. danieli which is a synonym for C. margaritatus according to Sissom & Lourenco . The number of pectinal teeth of his two specimens is 20 & 21. That´s a little bit low for C. margaritatus. In the Sissom paper the lowest number given  for margaritatus females is 23. I don´t know about the variation in the number of pectinal teeth among different populations of one species. But as C. margaritatus is such a polymorphic species such large variation in the number of pectinal teeth and the size of the adults might be also possible?

Regards
Alex


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## Nazgul (Apr 6, 2005)

spider_eye said:
			
		

> Hi Alex,
> On the movable finger.


Hi Christoph,

could be a hint that´s C. gracilis indeed.  As far as I can tell by the pictures the subaculear tooth is pointing outwards and away from the base of the stinger also? I think you can be relatively sure that your species is C. gracilis.

Regards
Alex


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## Murziukas (Sep 19, 2005)

*C. Margaritatus*

5th instar of C. Margaritatus eventhrough looks like C. Gracilis. 
8 rows of deticles on fixed and 8 on movable "fingers"
Guarding 20 pupals with flies coming up as food.


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## Jacobo (Sep 20, 2005)

*need a key*

hi... saludos o hola o  quibo mijo  or wathever .... i need a correct key to id centruroides, here in medellin (Colombia) u can fin them in your shoes.... they'r everywhere..... in all places.... y love them but i can't identify....

buaaa so sad.... im so so sad .... jajajaja lol...

sorry about my english... 

 

jacobo


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## Nazgul (Sep 20, 2005)

Hi,

that´s still the only overall key for this genus: 
STAHNKE H.L. & M. CALOS (1977): A key to the species of the genus Centruroides Marx (Scorpionida: Buthidae) – Entomological News 88, 5 & 6: 111–120
But as far as I know there are only C. gracilis and margaritatus listed for Colombia. Those species are more or less easily distinguishable.

Male and female Centruroides cf nigrimanus

Regards
Alex


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## Jacobo (Sep 20, 2005)

hi... plz send me some documents about the id of this genus (centruroides... specially C gracilis and C margaritatus)... if u have some key...better....i cant get the correct info to do this job...

the e mail is Jacoboc@gmail.com

thanks  

jacobo


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## Murziukas (Oct 13, 2005)

Hi folks,

as you can see from picture bellow: 2 C. Margaritatus. Male "gracilislike" morph, female bicolor morph (got her from George). Inspired after succesful "inbreeding" for gracilislike fellows I decided to try this one. Both are healthy, active, regualry eating. Both equal in size and strenght. Both margaritatus but if gave no result. Male was pretty aggressive, female was more deffensive and it doesn't look like mating. Well, it's understandable as I introduced female to male's tank but time didn't solve any problem they still misbehave. Any suggestions?


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## Brandelmouche (Oct 13, 2005)

HI all.

If you have the key for C. gracilis vs C. margaritatus, please show me on this cite.

Thanks all.


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## Murziukas (Oct 13, 2005)

7 rows of deticles for gracilis and 8 rows of denticles for margaritatus if I remember correctly.


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## Scorpionidad (Oct 13, 2005)

:drool: If only I had something to clean this drool up with LOL


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## Nazgul (Oct 13, 2005)

Brandelmouche said:
			
		

> HI all.
> 
> If you have the key for C. gracilis vs C. margaritatus, please show me on this cite.
> 
> Thanks all.


Hi,

this should help: 
SISSOM W.D. & W. LOURENCO (1987): The genus Centruroides in South America (Scorpiones, Buthidae) - Journal of Arachnology 15: 11-28

It´s possibly downloadable for free at the Journal´s homepage.

Regards
Alex


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## fusion121 (Oct 13, 2005)

Indeed it is:
http://www.americanarachnology.org/JoA_free/JoA_v15_n1/JoA_v15_p11.pdf


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## Jacobo (Nov 3, 2005)

*distribution.*

mm... the keys are corrects and easy to get a nd follow... but.....now i'm interested to get a distribution map for the species... and if it is for colombia better...
.... thanks ... 


sorry about my bad english---

jacobo


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## drapion (Nov 4, 2005)

I think this should be a sticky thread!Does anyone else think so.(this is one of my FAV. threads)


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## hamfoto (Jan 20, 2006)

o.k., I know...I know...I can't i.d. visually...but the little guy just molted and from other pics it looks like C. nigrimanus, not the C. margaritatus I though it was...what do you think?
and here's a pic of my C. exilicauda male, the female was hiding and wouldn't come out...
and last one is my little c. exilicauda gertschi scorpling...

Chris


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## smalltime (Jan 21, 2006)

Neeeeh don't think it's nigrimanus (blackhand) Those margaritatus are quite polymorph....


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## reacka (Jan 26, 2006)

i was told that this was a bark scorpion but i'm not sure what kind.  i bought two of these from the same shop that i purchased my c. gracilis a while ago.  before i got there i thought i would be getting the same sp. but they're obviously not.  can somebody tell me what kind this is?


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## reacka (Jan 26, 2006)

i'm thinking it's c. vittatus.  yeah, i'm pretty sure.  ignore this, my apalogy


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## ThatGuy (Jan 27, 2006)

reacka said:
			
		

> i'm thinking it's c. vittatus.  yeah, i'm pretty sure.  ignore this, my apalogy


imdont think thats a C. Vittatus


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## reacka (Jan 27, 2006)

you don't think so, but do you know what kind it is, That Guy?


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## Raan_Jodus (Jan 27, 2006)

if it is a bark scorpion, the only thing I can think of is C. Hentzi.  The tail isnt in the picture, but does it have a subnacular(sp?) on its telson?  it looks like a small second sting.  That might give an indication.

if its not (which is also possible I'm sure), it could be a Vaejovid (sp?)  Someone with a better knowledge could possibly narrow it down to a family group.  Some more detailed pics of the tail and such might help, some macro shots.

But I dont think its a Vittatus, it seems too dark, and there is no indication of the triangular mask.

Otherwise, I don't have a clue   good luck though.  I'm sure it'll bring you hours of joy regardless.


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## TheNothing (Jan 27, 2006)

yeah, a full picture would help
my first thought yesterday was that it was a Vaejovid...


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## reacka (Jan 27, 2006)

i appreciate it.  the digi. cam i have isn't all that great.  i gotta find the lil guys now, they're hidden well.


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## reacka (Jan 27, 2006)

i hope you cats can help me with these photos.  my bad they come out so dark and not too detailed...


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## hamfoto (Feb 16, 2006)

my piggie C. exilicauda gertschi (3rd instar?), one of my 2 new C. gracilis 3rd instar (Central America local), and my other piggie piggie C. margaritatus 3rd instar...

Chris


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## Nazgul (Feb 16, 2006)

reacka said:
			
		

> i hope you cats can help me with these photos.  my bad they come out so dark and not too detailed...


Hi,

have they been collected in the States? If so, it should be C. hentzi, I guess.

Regards
Alex


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## Brian S (Feb 17, 2006)

Nazgul said:
			
		

> Hi,
> 
> have they been collected in the States? If so, it should be C. hentzi, I guess.
> 
> ...


Hi,
I also believe it to be C hentzi.


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## drapion (Nov 16, 2006)

I just wanted to put a post on this thread to bring it back up so the newer people that have not read it can...I think this is one of the best threads on here and it should keep going on..Enjoy newbies.


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## telow (Nov 17, 2006)

those are hentzi i am %2000000% sure   
even with a bad pic.


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## drapion (Nov 17, 2006)

Must you say that Wayne?There are hentzi and we know that now give me yours.


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## telow (Nov 17, 2006)

drapion said:


> Must you say that Wayne?There are hentzi and we know that now give me yours.




no you just wait untill spring


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## dGr8-1 (Nov 21, 2006)

@Murziukas

How did your experiment of mixing _C.gracilis _and _C.margaritatus_ turn out?
I'm really curious.
I have a pair of _C.margaritatus_ and have seen them held each other but i can't locate the sperm case.


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