# Milipede update



## Jerry (Jul 24, 2016)

Everyone is well doing good just re worked there substrate was getting a little thin but here some pics

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## SlugPod (Jul 29, 2016)

Cute! 
I need to take some pictures of my milipeds. 
I know the bumblebee's but what are the other larger ones? 
They're quite pretty!


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## Jerry (Jul 29, 2016)

Florida ivory not sure the scientific name and you should love millipedes hopefully going to get some scarlet milupedess soon to ad to my collection


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## SlugPod (Jul 30, 2016)

Ah I see. 
They don't look like Ivory's in that picture I suppose. But I've also not seen them in person. 
I had some difficulties with my scarlet's. I had them for a bit of time but then they died off. 
However I have found some young scarlet's so I suppose they did well enough to breed and lay eggs. 
I think I have at least four scarlet babies. Possibly more in the tank, I haven't gone through it completely to see if I Can find more yet. 

I really want some Florida Ivory's. They are so pretty from what I have seen in pictures. 
I'm hoping I can get some soon but not sure when exactly.


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## Jerry (Jul 30, 2016)

Cool I've found a fair amount of little ones in my tank not sure if there Ivory's or bumblebees have to let them get bigger to find  out


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## SlugPod (Jul 30, 2016)

Awesome  
I always seem to have bumblebee's in various sizes/ ages. They do really well for me. 
I'm not sure what species I'd like to try and get next, there's so many cool species. I think I'd like one of the larger ones, though.


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## Jerry (Jul 30, 2016)

Yea deffinetly I really am fascinated with  brachycybe lecontii feather millipedes the don't get very big but they make up for it in the way they look


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## SlugPod (Jul 30, 2016)

@Jerry 
Yes they are definitely interesting looking. 
I wish I could find more than just bumblebee millipedes where I live but I haven't been successful in doing so.


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## Jerry (Jul 30, 2016)

That sucks bumblebee s are cool but there's so many other cool ones out there to that's a bummer you can't get them online


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## SlugPod (Jul 30, 2016)

I love the bumblebee's, they're really pretty. 
And I meant in the wild haha. 
I know a few places online that sell millipedes, I just haven't been able to buy any yet.


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## Jerry (Jul 30, 2016)

O OK you can wild collect bumblebee s that's SWEET the only ones I've had any luck catching here are small 2 to 3 inch maybe and very thin nothing to impressive not even sure what species they are but there all over the place and are a redish Bron not to spectacular


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## SlugPod (Jul 31, 2016)

Yeah they are all over the place. I can sometimes even just go out back and look under certain spots and find some. There's one place here not too far from my house actually that was just covered in them in the morning. I was thinking about going over there and collecting some just because I'm sure people try to mess with them. 
I've found a FEW scarlet millipedes as well but not very many. 
There's suppose to be quite a few species in Florida, I just might live in a too heavily populated city to find other species. There are a few parks here but haven't found anything at them. 

But hopefully I can get another species soon to admire!

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## ErinM31 (Jul 31, 2016)

Shellbee said:


> Cute!
> I need to take some pictures of my milipeds.
> I know the bumblebee's but what are the other larger ones?
> They're quite pretty!


The larger millipedes in the photo are _Narceus gordanus_ millipedes. They are an attractive and hardy millipede, even if they spend most of their time burrowed in the substrate. 



Jerry said:


> Florida ivory not sure the scientific name and you should love millipedes hopefully going to get some scarlet milupedess soon to ad to my collection


Those are definitely not _Chicobolus spinigerus_ / Ivory millipedes. Yours are _Narceus gordanus_ / Smoky Oak millipedes -- one of the thickest species in the U.S. (as you can see in your photo) and endemic to Florida. Ivory millipedes can also be found in Florida (as well as the southeastern U.S. more generally) but are smaller and quite distinctive in appeared (see link below).
http://bugguide.net/node/view/42568 


FYI, neither the Bumblebee (_Anadenobolus monilicornis_) nor Scarlet (_Trigoniulus corallinus_) millipedes are native to Florida but were introduced from South America and Asia, respectively. Of the many species introduced to the U.S., the Bumblebees are, IMHO, the most attractive. 



Jerry said:


> Yea deffinetly I really am fascinated with  brachycybe lecontii feather millipedes the don't get very big but they make up for it in the way they look


Agreed! They are delicate but uniquely beautiful millipedes! 




Jerry said:


> the only ones I've had any luck catching here are small 2 to 3 inch maybe and very thin nothing to impressive not even sure what species they are but there all over the place and are a redish Bron not to spectacular


Would you mind posting a photo of them? I am working on collecting millipedes from all over North America and am curious to see what species you describe. 



Shellbee said:


> There's suppose to be quite a few species in Florida, I just might live in a too heavily populated city to find other species. There are a few parks here but haven't found anything at them.
> 
> But hopefully I can get another species soon to admire!


Good luck! I look forward to seeing what else you find!  There are indeed many millipede species in Florida, but some quite specific in their habitat.


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## SlugPod (Jul 31, 2016)

@ErinM31 

Ah yeah I figured out they weren't Ivory's and were/ are smoky oaks. I recognized them but knew they weren't ivory's. 
I'm also aware that bumblebee's and scarlet's aren't native here (there are a lot of invasive / non-native species in Florida, not just millipedes). 
I've figured that a lot must live in specific areas / habitats here in Florida, and me being in a really populated area is probably part of the reason I can't find many other than the two species I have found. 
I might try and go to one of the parks and walk around off the path(s) and look under any logs I can find. I typically don't bother looking around the pine trees because I know pine is one of those woods that they don't go to. I normally look around the oak trees. 
If nothing else, I can buy some, but it is fun finding them in the wild too.


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## ErinM31 (Jul 31, 2016)

Shellbee said:


> @ErinM31
> Ah yeah I figured out they weren't Ivory's and were/ are smoky oaks. I recognized them but knew they weren't ivory's.
> I'm also aware that bumblebee's and scarlet's aren't native here (there are a lot of invasive / non-native species in Florida, not just millipedes).


Cool, just sharing as I like to know where the millipedes I keep come from and I wasn't sure how common knowledge that was (I've been studying Hoffman's 1999 list and reading the primary literature of the past few decades).
Yeah, and a lot of the introduced species are far more harmful than millipedes, which I don't think have caused any harm, unless they displacing or out-competing the natives -- hopefully not!



Shellbee said:


> I've figured that a lot must live in specific areas / habitats here in Florida, and me being in a really populated area is probably part of the reason I can't find many other than the two species I have found.
> I might try and go to one of the parks and walk around off the path(s) and look under any logs I can find. I typically don't bother looking around the pine trees because I know pine is one of those woods that they don't go to. I normally look around the oak trees.
> If nothing else, I can buy some, but it is fun finding them in the wild too.


Yes, I agree, it is fun to find them -- the link was primarily for the benefit of @Jerry since it sounds like he has far fewer local millipedes to be found. You might search BugGuide for millipedes found in Florida as this may give you more ideas of where to look.  I was pleasantly surprised at how many millipedes can be found in Texas, if only one knows where and WHEN to look!  Under logs and among hardwood leaves such as oak are always good places to look, but there may also be some millipedes in habitats that you would not expect. The _Floridobolus_ millipedes, for instance, can be found in sandy areas with juniper and rosemary -- two plants I would not normally think to find millipedes around.


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## SlugPod (Jul 31, 2016)

@ErinM31 

Oh no I'm glad you shared. I like to know where things come from as well. 
As far as I know the only harm the millipedes have caused is infesting homes for the most part (and maybe businesses). Which for some people is not ideal, obviously. If anything I'd think they'd help with breaking down decaying leaves/plant material, which is good because then there isn't just a bunch of dead leaf matter laying around. 
Kind of a shame in a way that the only species I have been able to find have been non-native species, though. It'd be nice if I could find some Ivory's or even Smoky Oak's. I was thinking of getting some Smoky Oak's next, since they're so thick-bodied. They seem really interesting and pretty.

I'll have to look at that! I wish there were more millipede species for sale online, seems like most places only have a few of the more popular / readily available species. I know there was a ban on importing them to the US, but I read it was lifted recently? I'm not sure because I haven't looked into it more yet. 
I just think millipedes are really cool and an amazing species to keep, I'd love to be able to have a lot more species available. I've read that some people have issues with breeding in captivity whereas some people have no issues at all. But I digress. 

That's interesting, I wouldn't think sandy areas = millipedes. I'll have to do some research to figure out good times of the year to find other species and such where I live. And just generally where to look. I'm sure I can find other species, if I just keep at it


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## Jerry (Jul 31, 2016)

Thanks for the corection on the wrong id I bought them from a local pet store they had them listed as Ivory's and I didn't really question it have had them for quit a while now and thanks for all the good info Yea as soon as I can I'll get a pic for you there really prity small but I had a few of them for a while then me and my son released them


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## SlugPod (Jul 31, 2016)

Ah yeah sometimes pet stores don't label their animals properly or they mislabel them. Or just call them something generic that doesn't even tell you what they are specifically, like "fancy" for example. 
That's one reason why I avoid pet stores as a source for live animals. I also just don't have any good local pet stores, most are the big chain's which are so bad. There's one that's a local pet store but it's still not that great and they don't have any insects of any kind.
But I digress, I would like to see the small species that you had as well. They sound interesting nonetheless. Reddish brown is a nice colour most of the time.

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## ErinM31 (Jul 31, 2016)

Shellbee said:


> @ErinM31
> Oh no I'm glad you shared. I like to know where things come from as well.
> As far as I know the only harm the millipedes have caused is infesting homes for the most part (and maybe businesses). Which for some people is not ideal, obviously. If anything I'd think they'd help with breaking down decaying leaves/plant material, which is good because then there isn't just a bunch of dead leaf matter laying around.


That is strange. I wonder what is in these homes or businesses that leads to an infestation of millipedes? I would think that most would not even be able to survive in the average air-conditioned building and would die of desiccation. I know some millipedes, including another species introduced from Asia, _Oxidus gracilus_, infest greenhouses because the warm moist climate suits them and they feed on the manure used as fertilizer. In any case, it is at worst a nuisance, not like certain beetles which have been introduced which infest and kill native trees. 

True, although every ecosystem has its detrivores. I thought at first there were none around here because I did not see the introduced isopods and Julid millipedes I was used to seeing around human settlements but there are millipedes of different kinds and also cockroaches such as _Arenivaga bolliana_ which consume leaf litter. Still, as a whole I would agree that the introduction of additional detrivores such as millipedes and the isopods which are now nearly ubiquitous in North America has not been a bad thing.



Shellbee said:


> Kind of a shame in a way that the only species I have been able to find have been non-native species, though. It'd be nice if I could find some Ivory's or even Smoky Oak's. I was thinking of getting some Smoky Oak's next, since they're so thick-bodied. They seem really interesting and pretty.


True, but not surprising. The non-native species were introduced by humans and many tend to spread along with them. I could find no isopods in the native forest but they can be found in abundance around buildings and neighborhoods. They may be throughout San Antonio err long with all the slash-and-burn "development" that is going on.  I am not saddened by the isopods spreading, but by the local fauna's destruction and can only hope that the natives are able to recolonize. Otherwise, like you, people will only find the introduced species around them and that is a sad thing.

Both _N. gordanus_ and _C. spinigerus_ are terrific millipedes.  From my experience, the _N. gordanus_ are far hardier. _C. spinigerus_ are especially nice because they are usually on top of the substrate and I am trying to find conditions to not only keep them healthy, but encourage reproduction. They are supposed to be easier than other species that I have been successful with. 



Shellbee said:


> I'll have to look at that! I wish there were more millipede species for sale online, seems like most places only have a few of the more popular / readily available species. I know there was a ban on importing them to the US, but I read it was lifted recently? I'm not sure because I haven't looked into it more yet.


Me too!!! There are very few dealers that have more than one or two species for sale and many native species are impossible to find, much less imports (actually, I don't believe anyone sells imported millipedes but the descendants of those who were successfully bred before imports were senselessly banned -- it is a shame that more were not established in the hobby first!). I have not heard that the ban was lifted but I HOPE that I am wrong! It is stupid, as most such laws are. Of the many introduced millipedes, not a single one was through the pet trade and besides, millipedes are harmless (not that I would excuse someone releasing a non-native pet into the wild, even if "only" for the sake of that animal).



Shellbee said:


> I just think millipedes are really cool and an amazing species to keep, I'd love to be able to have a lot more species available. I've read that some people have issues with breeding in captivity whereas some people have no issues at all. But I digress.


Again, me too!  Some species are very easy to breed in captivity, some are only easy under the right conditions, if that makes sense, while others are difficult just to keep alive in captivity, much less get to reproduce.



Shellbee said:


> That's interesting, I wouldn't think sandy areas = millipedes. I'll have to do some research to figure out good times of the year to find other species and such where I live. And just generally where to look. I'm sure I can find other species, if I just keep at it


Indeed! Nor would I! But there are always exceptions as it is of course advantageous to be able to live where many cannot -- less competition.  One of the Polydesmid millipedes I keep, _Harpaphe haydeniana_, was stressed and constantly pacing until I added wood, needles and little cones from the Douglas Fir -- then they were quite happy. To not only tolerate but require debris from a conifer not something one expects of a millipede!

Definitely!  I would be interested in at least knowing about (and possibly purchasing or trading for) any Spirobolids that you find. I would like to know where this millipede comes from:






I have a pair of these lovely millipedes and would like to know what they are.  I only know that they come from Florida and are definitely Spirobolids, probably Spirobolidae. They may be a new color morph of the _Narceus americanus-annularis_ complex, but they are smaller, quite different in color and may be too far south but I don't know even what county they are from, unfortunately.



Jerry said:


> Thanks for the corection on the wrong id I bought them from a local pet store they had them listed as Ivory's and I didn't really question it have had them for quit a while now and thanks for all the good info Yea as soon as I can I'll get a pic for you there really prity small but I had a few of them for a while then me and my son released them


Happy to help!  It is appalling how bad some vendors are with their info!  At least _C. spinigerus_ (Ivories) and _N. gordanus_ (Smoky Oaks) have similar husbandry requirements! One person on this forum was sold golden _Orthoporus ornatus_ (a large desert-adapted species from New Mexico and western Texas) as a Bumblebee millipede! 

Two to three inches is a good-sized millipede as far as I'm concerned!  I keep several species that grow little larger than an inch in length and one that is only a few millimeters in size.

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## Jerry (Jul 31, 2016)

Well I work at a saw mill and there is a lot of wood debris that is pilled up so I know right were to look for the ones that are around here

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## ErinM31 (Jul 31, 2016)

Jerry said:


> Well I work at a saw mill and there is a lot of wood debris that is pilled up so I know right were to look for the ones that are around here


What kind of wood does the saw mill process and what is done with the sawdust?


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## SlugPod (Jul 31, 2016)

@ErinM31


> That is strange. I wonder what is in these homes or businesses that leads to an infestation of millipedes?


I'm not quite sure. Most of the time when they are actually inside, they aren't alive. But if they stay outside they seem to do just fine. Most of the time I just see a bunch around the outside of buildings, not really inside. I don't really know why they would want to be around buildings, aside from maybe the landscaping. If they don't spray pesticides, obviously they can live there just fine.

Yeah a lot of non-native species are typically detrimental to the natural environment and/or the native species in it, but for the most part I don't think Millipedes are really bad. The food supply doesn't really run thin, unless for some reason there are LOTS of detrivores in that area, but I don't think there's ever that many in one area, at least not that I've seen.



> True, but not surprising. The non-native species were introduced by humans and many tend to spread along with them. I could find no isopods in the native forest but they can be found in abundance around buildings and neighborhoods. They may be throughout San Antonio err long with all the slash-and-burn "development" that is going on.  I am not saddened by the isopods spreading, but by the local fauna's destruction and can only hope that the natives are able to recolonize. Otherwise, like you, people will only find the introduced species around them and that is a sad thing.
> 
> Both _N. gordanus_ and _C. spinigerus_ are terrific millipedes.  From my experience, the _N. gordanus_ are far hardier. _C. spinigerus_ are especially nice because they are usually on top of the substrate and I am trying to find conditions to not only keep them healthy, but encourage reproduction. They are supposed to be easier than other species that I have been successful with.


I'm sure part of the reason I've only been able to find the two species is because my area just doesn't have a lot of natural areas. It's mostly developed and because of that, I'm sure a lot of the native species got wiped out when it was being developed, but the non-natives managed to survive or at least make it because they got imported on plants and managed to get around that way. So they were able to make it to the bits of areas that aren't developed, such as yards and other landscapings.

I'd love to have a millipede that likes to be "out" more. I typically only see my bumblebee's at night time and if I bring light over to them (it's kind of hard to see them in the dark, obviously!).
Sometimes they'll come out if I put fruit in there, but sometimes they won't.



> Me too!!! There are very few dealers that have more than one or two species for sale and many native species are impossible to find, much less imports


The only place I've been able to find online that seems to carry a few species and still seems to be "active" is bugs in cyberspace. I think they had more there a while back (I think they had an albino variant of one species) but they've been removed (I assume because they don't have anymore to sell). I haven't bought any from them yet but I hope to soon.
I remember reading that they were banned from importation because of the mites that are on wild specimens ended up eating crops or something? I don't remember exactly but it was something with the mites on the millipedes. Not sure how true that is. But I must agree that it's stupid to ban the importation of something like millipedes.
I don't remember where I read it now, or whether or not it was true, but I would hope it's true. It would be nice to get some new(er) species going in the trade. Not that I really know how many species would be interesting to import and get here that aren't already here in some capacity.



> Again, me too!  Some species are very easy to breed in captivity, some are only easy under the right conditions, if that makes sense, while others are difficult just to keep alive in captivity, much less get to reproduce.


I know what you mean about the right conditions. I find it interesting that sometimes people can have an easy time breeding a species and someone can have an extremely hard time with the same species, but still have the same/ similar conditions. Obviously something must be off or someone is doing something just slightly differently than the other. Or one person just has stubborn millipedes, though I don't think millipedes are necessarily capable of being stubborn (more of a joke lol).

I have quite a few of the Bumblebee millipedes and they breed really easily. If I look in their container at night I can see millipedes of various sizes.
I have 4-6 young scarlet millipedes. Possibly more but I haven't seen more come out yet. I'm hoping I can find some more adults sometime and get them to breed and reproduce. I know of a couple of places where I have seen them here, typically around buildings in the early morning.
I think I found an ivory, but I'm not sure because I didn't keep it. It looked different than the bumblebee's, and was the right colour to be an ivory. I plan on going to the park again sometime (possibly tomorrow) where I found it, see if I can't find anything there. And maybe another park a different day. The (other) park seems like a great place for millipedes to be, I just haven't found any there yet.



> I have a pair of these lovely millipedes and would like to know what they are.


It's beautiful! About how big are they? it looks a lot like the bumblebee millipedes, just a softer colour. But I really don't know how to identify millipedes / know a lot of species. I know a few species and that's about it haha. I'm still learning.
My forte is snakes, self taught myself all about genetics in snakes and such.
But millipedes are becoming a fast second passion. I really enjoy them. But it seems a bit more difficult to learn about them than snakes, since I assume not a lot of people are in the hobby of keeping millipedes. There's a lot more than I would have thought but nothing compared to the reptile hobby.
I'd love to see colour morphs of various millipede species pop up though. Typically always starts with albino and goes from there.

Went off on a bit of a tangent there at the end but -- Maybe I'll see if there are any other parks near to me that I could go to sometime. I know there are lots of parks around, I just know that some of them you can't take anything from. So I'll have to be sure if I go to any, I can take millipedes at least.

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## Jerry (Jul 31, 2016)

Cotton wood, oak ,ash, locust ,mulberry ,elm ,pine ,ceder and all kinds of things we sell sawdust mulch and wood chips  for all kinds of uses a three cubic yard frontend loader bucket is $30 its enufe to fill a full size pickup bed heaping full .


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## ErinM31 (Jul 31, 2016)

Shellbee said:


> I'm not quite sure. Most of the time when they are actually inside, they aren't alive. But if they stay outside they seem to do just fine. Most of the time I just see a bunch around the outside of buildings, not really inside. I don't really know why they would want to be around buildings, aside from maybe the landscaping. If they don't spray pesticides, obviously they can live there just fine.


Ahhh, I thought infestation = an overabundance indoors
Why should people mind a lot of millipedes outside? What harm do they do? People are weird.  And you're right, from what I've seen in the literature, even the native species in Florida seem to appreciate hydration and landscaping that doesn't include pesticides. 



Shellbee said:


> Yeah a lot of non-native species are typically detrimental to the natural environment and/or the native species in it, but for the most part I don't think Millipedes are really bad. The food supply doesn't really run thin, unless for some reason there are LOTS of detrivores in that area, but I don't think there's ever that many in one area, at least not that I've seen.


Agreed!



Shellbee said:


> I'm sure part of the reason I've only been able to find the two species is because my area just doesn't have a lot of natural areas. It's mostly developed and because of that, I'm sure a lot of the native species got wiped out when it was being developed, but the non-natives managed to survive or at least make it because they got imported on plants and managed to get around that way. So they were able to make it to the bits of areas that aren't developed, such as yards and other landscapings.


Exactly. That's what I fear may happen around here.  Most of the tarantulas are already gone. I hope that I can find some in less developed areas this fall.



Shellbee said:


> I'd love to have a millipede that likes to be "out" more. I typically only see my bumblebee's at night time and if I bring light over to them (it's kind of hard to see them in the dark, obviously!).
> Sometimes they'll come out if I put fruit in there, but sometimes they won't.


I would definitely recommend _Chicobolus spinigerus_ (Ivory millipede) then.  They are almost always on the surface, unlike all other Spirobolids I've kept. _Orthoporus ornatus_ and many Polydesmids are also on the surface a lot but have more particular requirements.



Shellbee said:


> The only place I've been able to find online that seems to carry a few species and still seems to be "active" is bugs in cyberspace. I think they had more there a while back (I think they had an albino variant of one species) but they've been removed (I assume because they don't have anymore to sell). I haven't bought any from them yet but I hope to soon.


BugsInCyberspace is definitely the best!  The availability of some millipedes is seasonal. As for the albino _Narceus americanus_; I fear there was only one supplier and something happened to their colony. 



Shellbee said:


> I remember reading that they were banned from importation because of the mites that are on wild specimens ended up eating crops or something? I don't remember exactly but it was something with the mites on the millipedes. Not sure how true that is. But I must agree that it's stupid to ban the importation of something like millipedes.
> I don't remember where I read it now, or whether or not it was true, but I would hope it's true. It would be nice to get some new(er) species going in the trade. Not that I really know how many species would be interesting to import and get here that aren't already here in some capacity.


To my knowledge, mites are commensal with ONE species of millipedes that were imported -- the African Giant Blacks (AGBs). I never heard that they turned out to be pests but even if that is so, that is HARDLY a reason to ban ALL millipede imports.  There are quite a few millipedes that would be GREAT to have in the hobby if they do well in captivity! I am not in favor of importing species such as the giant pill millipedes that cannot survive, much less reproduce, in captivity; there are many that I believe are kept successfully in countries without such idiotic laws. I cannot give you species offhand as I have done no more than admire photos. All of my focus has been on the species found in North America both because I can actually acquire them and for my book. 



Shellbee said:


> I know what you mean about the right conditions. I find it interesting that sometimes people can have an easy time breeding a species and someone can have an extremely hard time with the same species, but still have the same/ similar conditions. Obviously something must be off or someone is doing something just slightly differently than the other. Or one person just has stubborn millipedes, though I don't think millipedes are necessarily capable of being stubborn (more of a joke lol).


This seems to be the case with Ivories! Some people say that they are the easiest ever while others -- myself included, unfortunately -- experience a high amount of stochastic die-off.  I'm not giving up -- especially since they happen to be one of my favorite species!

Hehe, I know what you mean -- one of my _Narceus americanus_ I want to describe as ornery and I could swear there is a difference in intelligence among the three _Ephebopus murinus_ (skeleton tarantula) spiderlings, although they are all siblings and isn't everything instinct and they don't really have a capacity that could be described as intelligence? Yet they are like the three little pigs. One makes it's burrow too small so that it has to molt on the "doorstep" and would likely be dead in the wild and now it has outgrown it's burrow entirely and hangs out on the surface.  On the other end of the spectrum is the one that made it's burrow first and fastest, large enough to molt in, and relocated before the burrow was outgrown. Lol, that turned into quite a tangent that has naught to do with millipedes... 



Shellbee said:


> I have quite a few of the Bumblebee millipedes and they breed really easily. If I look in their container at night I can see millipedes of various sizes.
> I have 4-6 young scarlet millipedes. Possibly more but I haven't seen more come out yet. I'm hoping I can find some more adults sometime and get them to breed and reproduce. I know of a couple of places where I have seen them here, typically around buildings in the early morning.
> I think I found an ivory, but I'm not sure because I didn't keep it. It looked different than the bumblebee's, and was the right colour to be an ivory. I plan on going to the park again sometime (possibly tomorrow) where I found it, see if I can't find anything there. And maybe another park a different day. The (other) park seems like a great place for millipedes to be, I just haven't found any there yet.


That's awesome!  I should purchase more Bumblebee millipedes -- only have one right now. It is fun to watch the pedelings grow! I have young from my _Narceus americanus_, _Tylobolus cf. castaneus_, _Pseudopolydesmus pinetorum_, _Auturus evides_ and _Oxidus gracilis_.

I hope that you find Ivories! There are some nice color variations with varying amounts of pink in addition to the black and ivory. 



Shellbee said:


> It's beautiful! About how big are they? it looks a lot like the bumblebee millipedes, just a softer colour.


Thank you, I think so too!  They are about 2.5 in / 6.5 cm long --  very similar to the Ivories in their size and morphology. I have a pair and have seen them mate -- really hope I get pedelings!!!



Shellbee said:


> But I really don't know how to identify millipedes / know a lot of species. I know a few species and that's about it haha. I'm still learning.
> My forte is snakes, self taught myself all about genetics in snakes and such.
> But millipedes are becoming a fast second passion. I really enjoy them. But it seems a bit more difficult to learn about them than snakes, since I assume not a lot of people are in the hobby of keeping millipedes. There's a lot more than I would have thought but nothing compared to the reptile hobby.


SO TRUE!!! There is just NOT the information that there is to identify even other invertebrates, such as spiders and butterflies and many others which have helpful guides in print and online. I was only able to identify my local _Eurymerodesmus melacis_ by posting a photo on BugGuide -- which is an awesome resource, but there needs to be more accessible information to guide people in identifying millipedes they find. That has led to my researching everything I can on millipedes and collecting as many different species as I can from across North America -- I'm going to put together a guide to their identification and husbandry. 



Shellbee said:


> I'd love to see colour morphs of various millipede species pop up though. Typically always starts with albino and goes from there.


Actually, my understanding is that albino morphs are quite rare among invertebrates. I don't know why; yes, albinism would disadvantageous for most in the wild, but that it true for all species that normally produce pigment.


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## ErinM31 (Jul 31, 2016)

Jerry said:


> Cotton wood, oak ,ash, locust ,mulberry ,elm ,pine ,ceder and all kinds of things we sell sawdust mulch and wood chips  for all kinds of uses a three cubic yard frontend loader bucket is $30 its enufe to fill a full size pickup bed heaping full .


Ooooh, would it be possible to purchase smaller quantities?  I have no space for a pickup bed full but it would be great to have oak sawdust with other hardwoods such as elm and poplar mixed in!


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## Jerry (Aug 1, 2016)

Well two questions how much and were


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## ErinM31 (Aug 1, 2016)

Jerry said:


> Well two questions how much and were


Around 5 pounds shipped to San Antonio, Texas (unless you're in Texas -- in which case I could pick it up on one of my bug-hunting expeditions!


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## Jerry (Aug 1, 2016)

I'll do so checking see what I can find out

Reactions: Like 1


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## SlugPod (Aug 1, 2016)

> Ahhh, I thought infestation = an overabundance indoors
> Why should people mind a lot of millipedes outside?


From what I could figure out, they do get indoors but I think most of the time they die indoors. 
I guess it could depend on the house in question, though, because sometimes people don't have AC (I don't know how, it's so bloody hot here!) and will have windows/doors open so it wouldn't be too much different indoors vs outdoors. 
I don't know how often infestations actually occur now-a-days though.



> Exactly. That's what I fear may happen around here.


Yeah. I'd love to be able to find/obtain native species and be able to breed them and release them back into natural areas like the parks, but there are only a few Florida Natives for sale online so it wouldn't be much. 



> I would definitely recommend _Chicobolus spinigerus_ (Ivory millipede) then.


I may try to get a few of those, then! I also love their colour so it'd be a double good thing. Plus they are one of the florida natives. 



> BugsInCyberspaceis definitely the best!  The availability of some millipedes is seasonal. As for the albino _Narceus americanus_; I fear there was only one supplier and something happened to their colony.


Ah makes sense. I definitely plan on purchasing from them when I can. 
Ah that's a shame! I'd love to be able to find some albino or even just different-coloured millipedes. I feel like having colour morphs could draw in a lot more potential keepers, since "exotic" colours makes things more appealing to more people.



> To my knowledge, mites are commensal with ONE species of millipedes that were imported -- the African Giant Blacks (AGBs). I never heard that they turned out to be pests but even if that is so, that is HARDLY a reason to ban ALL millipede imports.  There are quite a few millipedes that would be GREAT to have in the hobby if they do well in captivity! I am not in favor of importing species such as the giant pill millipedes that cannot survive, much less reproduce, in captivity; there are many that I believe are kept successfully in countries without such idiotic laws. I cannot give you species offhand as I have done no more than admire photos. All of my focus has been on the species found in North America both because I can actually acquire them and for my book.


That's what I thought, but it's been a while since I read that now so I couldn't remember -exactly- what the reason was other than Mites. I agree that it is hardly a reason to ban all millipedes, I could understand maybe banning them from Africa at the most, but all? Absurd. 
It'd be nice if we at least had the option to get imports of some species, though. If nothing more than other species that are currently being successfully kept in captivity in other places. 
It'd be nice to go study some species out in the wild and see what kind of conditions they require and then bring them back and try to replicate that. That's how any animal-keeping hobby typically starts. Getting them and trying to recreate the best conditions for them and figuring out what works and what doesn't. 
Yeah I want to put more time into researching/learning about species I can actually get. I really love learning as much as I can about things I really like, such as millipedes. I got the book Millipedes in Captivity but haven't read through ALL of it yet. I just kind of skimmed it. Looking at the pictures haha. 



> This seems to be the case with Ivories! Some people say that they are the easiest ever while others -- myself included, unfortunately -- experience a high amount of stochasticdie-off.  I'm not giving up -- especially since they happen to be one of my favorite species!


That's what I had happen with the scarlet's I found. They did well for a couple months, well enough to reproduce, but then died seemingly without reason. I don't know if they just die after successful breeding or not? 
I'd love to get some more of those sometime -- hoping I can go to a couple of spots I know I saw some before. Hoping I find some too xP
That's still strange that people can have and easy go of things with certain species and others have a hard time. They may be sensitive to certain conditions and if they're slightly off - just don't do well. That'd be my guess anyway. 



> That's awesome!  I should purchase more Bumblebee millipedes -- only have one right now. It is fun to watch the pedelings grow! I have young from my _Narceus americanus_, _Tylobolus cf. castaneus_, _Pseudopolydesmus pinetorum_, _Auturus evides_ and _Oxidus gracilis_.
> 
> I hope that you find Ivories! There are some nice color variations with varying amounts of pink in addition to the black and ivory.


Bumblebee's are all over the place here. I might go collect a few more from the place right around the corner from my house one morning sine there were so many. I haven't found any that are any different colours, aside from some maybe being more yellow than others. But it's not that noticeable a difference. 

I enjoy watching them grow yes! Seeing how they grow into their colours, start moving around more, etc. 



> Thank you, I think so too!  They are about 2.5 in / 6.5 cm long -- very similar to the Ivories in their size and morphology. I have a pair and have seen them mate -- really hope I get pedelings!!!


Awesome! It would be awesome if they do successfully reproduce. I'd be interested in seeing how the babies develop if they are a morph. Sometimes morph do weird things and will either look the same as the parents or will do something completely different and pop out some interesting surprises. 



> SO TRUE!!! There is just NOT the information that there is to identify even other invertebrates, such as spiders and butterflies and many others which have helpful guides in print and online. I was only able to identify my local _Eurymerodesmus melacis_ by posting a photo on BugGuide -- which is an awesome resource, but there needs to be more accessible information to guide people in identifying millipedes they find. That has led to my researching everything I can on millipedes and collecting as many different species as I can from across North America -- I'm going to put together a guide to their identification and husbandry.


That's awesome! I know that so many millipedes look so similar that it can be often times hard to tell any difference at all. 
But that's awesome that you're working on putting together a guide and husbandry guide. Having that kind of information available is really good for all kinds of people. Sometimes that can get people to start keeping when they see how much info is available to them.



> Actually, my understanding is that albino morphs are quite rare among invertebrates. I don't know why; yes, albinism would disadvantageous for most in the wild, but that it true for all species that normally produce pigment.


That's interesting -- I wasn't aware that it's rare among inverts in particular. I know it can be fairly rare among any animal at first, but after you find one you can get more. 
Maybe inverts just rarely carry the albino gene for whatever reason. Obviously it's not the best for any wild animal (unless they'd live in snowy areas) because they stick out, but I don't know why it'd be particularly rare among inverts.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Jerry (Aug 1, 2016)

ErinM31 said:


> Around 5 pounds shipped to San Antonio, Texas (unless you're in Texas -- in which case I could pick it up on one of my bug-hunting expeditions! [/QUOTE
> 
> 
> Well that would be a long expidition I'm in Nebraska I'll check on shipping coast and let you know the  sawdust would be super cheep for no more than that and just to be clear its mostly comprised of cottonwood that's what we cut the most of I do have access to some oak I can cut to try and get like 50 50 mix the next thing is 5 pound worth of dry light weight sawdust is going to be a fairly large box but its doable


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## Jerry (Aug 2, 2016)

Here is one of the two sp I've found around this is by far the most common one 
	

		
			
		

		
	




And as you can see some of them are paired up


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## ErinM31 (Aug 3, 2016)

Jerry said:


> Well that would be a long expidition I'm in Nebraska I'll check on shipping coast and let you know the sawdust would be super cheep for no more than that and just to be clear its mostly comprised of cottonwood that's what we cut the most of I do have access to some oak I can cut to try and get like 50 50 mix the next thing is 5 pound worth of dry light weight sawdust is going to be a fairly large box but its doable


That sounds good to me! Or ideally 5-10 pounds of 50% cottonwood, 25% oak and 25% elm -- something like that. Let me know how much it would be with shipping, please and thank you very much!  I know shipping will be a good bit of the price, but I will save some money fermenting sawdust myself and will also be able to offer my millipedes some additional variety -- which is always a good thing.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Jerry (Aug 5, 2016)

Well I have a question @ErinM31 would 50% cotton wood and 50% oak /ash work for you we cut elm but not on a regular enuf basis to have any lying around and also would you like it separated or mixed together


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## ErinM31 (Aug 5, 2016)

Jerry said:


> Well I have a question @ErinM31 would 50% cotton wood and 50% oak /ash work for you we cut elm but not on a regular enuf basis to have any lying around and also would you like it separated or mixed together


That would be just fine!  I am going to end up mixing it together, but whichever way is easiest to package and ship works for me.


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## Jerry (Aug 5, 2016)

@ErinM31 Ok well ill get it collected and packaged and see what it will coast to ship and let you know o I also was more interested in a trade than money would like to expand my collection and not to picky about what sp either let me know what you think and what you might heve to trade if that works for you or you can just pay me if you would rather do that


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## ErinM31 (Aug 5, 2016)

Jerry said:


> @ErinM31 Ok well ill get it collected and packaged and see what it will coast to ship and let you know o I also was more interested in a trade than money would like to expand my collection and not to picky about what sp either let me know what you think and what you might heve to trade if that works for you or you can just pay me if you would rather do that


A trade would be fine with me!  I have quite a few _Narceus americanus, Pseudopolydesmus pinetorum _and _Auturus evides _pedelings. I would recommend the former for you as they are very hardy, grow to four inches, and could be kept with you other millipedes. The latter two are much smaller millipedes but do well and are quite prolific but have specific requirements -- namely moist all-wood substrate (but you would need to find decaying wood or ferment some sawdust before it could support them). I could send you a few of each of those three or whichever interest you -- just let me know. I would like to wait until fall to ship them as that gives the pedelings more time to grow and become hardier before travel and also the temperatures will be much more favorable for shipping.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## SDCPs (Aug 6, 2016)

ErinM31 said:


> Both _N. gordanus_ and _C. spinigerus_ are terrific millipedes.  From my experience, the _N. gordanus_ are far hardier. _C. spinigerus_ are especially nice because they are usually on top of the substrate and I am trying to find conditions to not only keep them healthy, but encourage reproduction. They are supposed to be easier than other species that I have been successful with.


This species seems to just need high enclosure temperatures about 75*+ in my experience. Then the grow fast and are quite hardy.

Shellbee, btw I am a major breeder of the exotic flameleg millipede which you might find fascinating. Link to my site in sig.


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## ErinM31 (Aug 6, 2016)

SDCPs said:


> This species seems to just need high enclosure temperatures about 75*+ in my experience. Then the grow fast and are quite hardy.


Perhaps 75-80F? I worry that some of my millipedes are stressed by how warm it gets in my apartment -- up to 84F during the afternoon despite the AC being set to 75F. I hope not. Most species seem to be doing well and right now, the only other option I have is 65F in the wine cooler.  I plan to purchase more _C. spinigerus_ in the fall -- hopefully I can get everything right this time and be rewarded with pedelings!


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## ErinM31 (Aug 6, 2016)

How goes the millipede research? 



Shellbee said:


> It'd be nice to go study some species out in the wild and see what kind of conditions they require and then bring them back and try to replicate that. That's how any animal-keeping hobby typically starts. Getting them and trying to recreate the best conditions for them and figuring out what works and what doesn't.


Absolutely! I definitely want to study Xystodesmids in the field; it must be possible to figure out their husbandry. I think I'm making progress with my local _Eurymerodesmus melacis_. 



Shellbee said:


> That's what I had happen with the scarlet's I found. They did well for a couple months, well enough to reproduce, but then died seemingly without reason. I don't know if they just die after successful breeding or not?
> I'd love to get some more of those sometime -- hoping I can go to a couple of spots I know I saw some before. Hoping I find some too xP
> That's still strange that people can have and easy go of things with certain species and others have a hard time. They may be sensitive to certain conditions and if they're slightly off - just don't do well. That'd be my guess anyway.


I'm afraid I don't know either; I haven't read of Spirobolid species that die after reproducing but that seems possible. How are the pedelings doing?



Shellbee said:


> Bumblebee's are all over the place here. I might go collect a few more from the place right around the corner from my house one morning sine there were so many. I haven't found any that are any different colours, aside from some maybe being more yellow than others. But it's not that noticeable a difference.


Might you be willing to collect some extra to trade? 



Shellbee said:


> Awesome! It would be awesome if they do successfully reproduce. I'd be interested in seeing how the babies develop if they are a morph. Sometimes morph do weird things and will either look the same as the parents or will do something completely different and pop out some interesting surprises.


I'll definitely post if I get offspring!  I suspect that these are a new species of _Narceus_. They behave differently from my other _Narceus_ millipedes in addition to their unique appearance.



Shellbee said:


> That's awesome! I know that so many millipedes look so similar that it can be often times hard to tell any difference at all.
> But that's awesome that you're working on putting together a guide and husbandry guide. Having that kind of information available is really good for all kinds of people. Sometimes that can get people to start keeping when they see how much info is available to them.


Thank you! That is my goal! 



Shellbee said:


> That's interesting -- I wasn't aware that it's rare among inverts in particular. I know it can be fairly rare among any animal at first, but after you find one you can get more.
> Maybe inverts just rarely carry the albino gene for whatever reason. Obviously it's not the best for any wild animal (unless they'd live in snowy areas) because they stick out, but I don't know why it'd be particularly rare among inverts.


Perhaps invertebrate enzymes responsible for dark pigment have some additional vital function? I can think of no other reason it should be rare. In any organism, albinism arises by a chance mutation in such enzymes and since most arthropods produce lots of offspring, you'd think albinism would be MORE common than in vertebrates.  Yet I'm sure that if there were such a thing as albino tarantulas, they would be quite popular.


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## Ratmosphere (Aug 7, 2016)

Beautiful! I've been thinking about getting a millipede for a year now but haven't gone through with it.


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## Jerry (Aug 7, 2016)

@Ratmosphere 
They are awesome pets and for the most part once you get them setup the maintain I say take the plunge and don't just get one get a bunch


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## SlugPod (Aug 9, 2016)

> How goes the millipede research?


I've been busy with some other stuff lately but I'm sure I'll get some time to look stuff up soon! 



> Absolutely! I definitely want to study Xystodesmids in the field; it must be possible to figure out their husbandry. I think I'm making progress with my local _Eurymerodesmus melacis_.


exactly, if you can see the conditions they live in and what they prefer, it makes it so much easier to figure out what you need to do with them in captivity and how best to replicate it. 



> I'm afraid I don't know either; I haven't read of Spirobolid species that die after reproducing but that seems possible. How are the pedelings doing?


I don't think it'd be impossible, considering lots of insects die shortly thereafter mating. I'm not sure if that is the case for the scarlet's, or if they just happened to be closer to death so they died afterwards. Perhaps I can figure that out if the pedelings grow up. 
They are doing well, I assume. I never see them come out, but I never saw the adults either. And I don't go digging through their enclosure to check on them. 



> Might you be willing to collect some extra to trade?


Absolutely! 
I just have to wait for a good morning to go get some. It's been raining a lot the past few days so I haven't gone out looking for them. Hopefully sometime this week the weather will be a bit clearer so I can go get some. 
I'll let you know when I'm able to get some!



> I'll definitely post if I get offspring!  I suspect that these are a new species of _Narceus_. They behave differently from my other _Narceus_ millipedes in addition to their unique appearance.


Awesome!
That would be really cool. I've not seen any quite that colour, and if they behave differently it wouldn't be a stretch to think they're new. They certainly are very beautiful. 



> Thank you! That is my goal!


Well I encourage you to keep at it! It'd be a great thing to have available. 



> Perhaps invertebrate enzymes responsible for dark pigment have some additional vital function? I can think of no other reason it should be rare. In any organism, albinism arises by a chance mutation in such enzymes and since most arthropods produce lots of offspring, you'd think albinism would be MORE common than in vertebrates.  Yet I'm sure that if there were such a thing as albino tarantulas, they would be quite popular.


It's possible. But I don't think there's anyone out there researching that. Would be interesting to see if there is a reason for it though. 
Albino tarantulas would be quite interesting. Especially if they were extremely white in colour.


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## ErinM31 (Aug 16, 2016)

Shellbee said:


> I've been busy with some other stuff lately but I'm sure I'll get some time to look stuff up soon!


I understand -- been busy too, but am looking forward to hopefully doing some in the field research of local millipedes come fall! 



Shellbee said:


> I don't think it'd be impossible, considering lots of insects die shortly thereafter mating. I'm not sure if that is the case for the scarlet's, or if they just happened to be closer to death so they died afterwards. Perhaps I can figure that out if the pedelings grow up.
> They are doing well, I assume. I never see them come out, but I never saw the adults either. And I don't go digging through their enclosure to check on them.


Yeah, I definitely recommend against digging through the substrate as there's the risk of injuring them if they've recently molted! I know what you mean though. My _Tylobolus_ millipedes are the same way and I only found pedelings at all because I needed to rehouse them and change their substrate (I still have the old substrate and will check through it for pedelings once more before I through it out) and now I never see them but hope they continue to do well.



Shellbee said:


> Absolutely!
> I just have to wait for a good morning to go get some. It's been raining a lot the past few days so I haven't gone out looking for them. Hopefully sometime this week the weather will be a bit clearer so I can go get some.
> I'll let you know when I'm able to get some!


Awesome -- thank you!  No rush, just whenever you're able to find some. They are so vibrantly colored! I have only have one yet but would like to start a culture. 



Shellbee said:


> Awesome!
> That would be really cool. I've not seen any quite that colour, and if they behave differently it wouldn't be a stretch to think they're new. They certainly are very beautiful.


We'll see -- now my "regular" _Narceus americanus_ are making my statement false by hanging out on the surface more themselves!  I have what is most likely a young _N. americanus_ from Arkansas that looks similar to these millipedes, but I expect its banding to become more pronounced as it grows like other brown-striped morphs of _N. amercianus_ that I have seen photos of. I still think they are something different:
1) They are mature but are MUCH smaller than either _N. americanus_ or _N. annularis_ (which some taxonomists say are the same species, even though they differ in appearance and reproduction, but I digress...), no larger than _Chicobolus spinigerus_.
2) Their legs are not red, unlike every other _N. americanus_ morph that I have seen, except for the albino morph featured in Millipeds in Captivity.
3) I believe they came from Florida, most of which is south of the range of _N. americanus_.

Of course they COULD be a very different morph, one that established a population through founder effect or because this morph, unlike larger darker _N. americanus_, was somehow better adapted to range south... but that is sounded like speciation, no? If I may be so bold,  will declare them _Narceus_ sp. "pale" until I have official word otherwise. 



Shellbee said:


> Well I encourage you to keep at it! It'd be a great thing to have available.


Absolutely!  It will take a while to collect all the data I need, but anything worth doing is worth doing well!



Shellbee said:


> It's possible. But I don't think there's anyone out there researching that. Would be interesting to see if there is a reason for it though.
> Albino tarantulas would be quite interesting. Especially if they were extremely white in colour.


Yeah, I asked Google and only found a thread on another forum where someone seemed quite pleased with themselves to say that tarantulas could not be albino because albinism is defined as a lack of pigmentation in the skin and tarantulas, of course, do not have skin. *epic unimpressed face* OBVIOUSLY, invertebrates have pigmentation in their hair and exoskeleton and thus albinism for them would be a lack of pigment there.  Now why does THAT almost never happen??? (excluding those that live in caves or are otherwise naturally white, of course)


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## SlugPod (Aug 21, 2016)

> I understand -- been busy too, but am looking forward to hopefully doing some in the field research of local millipedes come fall!


Finally had some time to go look for millipedes! Found 14 Scarlet Millipedes and 18(if I remember correctly) Bumblebees! There were more bumblebees, but they were up on the building, out of reach.
I'm also most likely going again tomorrow morning to collect more scarlets and maybe more bumblebees if I can reach / find them! 



> Yeah, I definitely recommend against digging through the substrate as there's the risk of injuring them if they've recently molted! I know what you mean though. My _Tylobolus_ millipedes are the same way and I only found pedelings at all because I needed to rehouse them and change their substrate (I still have the old substrate and will check through it for pedelings once more before I through it out) and now I never see them but hope they continue to do well.


I'm figuring out that maybe younger scarlets like to stay under the substrate, because some of the sexually mature scarlets I collected the other day were out. It would make sense, wanting to stay hidden while you're smaller and more vulnerable. 



> Awesome -- thank you!  No rush, just whenever you're able to find some. They are so vibrantly colored! I have only have one yet but would like to start a culture.


They're really good breeders - at least the ones I have are. Always finding young ones out and about. 



> Of course they COULD be a very different morph, one that established a population through founder effect or because this morph, unlike larger darker _N. americanus_, was somehow better adapted to range south... but that is sounded like speciation, no? If I may be so bold, will declare them _Narceus_ sp. "pale" until I have official word otherwise.


Might just have to wait and see if they grow any larger and any pedelings that pop out. If the colour stays consistent through all the young, it could be some kind of new species. Because normally with morphs, there will still be some variation, but if it's a "normal" morph, they'll typically all look the same.



> Absolutely!  It will take a while to collect all the data I need, but anything worth doing is worth doing well!


So true! And worth it!!



> Yeah, I asked Google and only found a thread on another forum where someone seemed quite pleased with themselves to say that tarantulas could not be albino because albinism is defined as a lack of pigmentation in the skin and tarantulas, of course, do not have skin. *epic unimpressed face* OBVIOUSLY, invertebrates have pigmentation in their hair and exoskeleton and thus albinism for them would be a lack of pigment there.  Now why does THAT almost never happen??? (excluding those that live in caves or are otherwise naturally white, of course)


Maybe it's just less likely for hair and exoskeletons to have a lack of pigmentation, and generally always produce their pigmentation?
Maybe there's something underlying with albinism that effects the health of insects, maybe they die when fairly young compared to a "normal" counterpart. Maybe they are more susceptible to ailments if albino in the wild. 
A lot of albino animals are susceptible to death, not just because they stick out like a sore thumb, but because they don't have the normal protection from the elements that their normal counterparts do. 
Maybe there's something to do with that, they just die off in the wild before they're even big enough to be identifiable as albino.


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## ArachnoBoss (Jan 22, 2021)

Jerry said:


> Florida ivory not sure the scientific name and you should love millipedes hopefully going to get some scarlet milupedess soon to ad to my collection


They're not Florida Ivory( chicopolus spinigerus) they're Othoporus ornatus common name Smokey Oak Millipede. And they yellow is Obv Bumble bee Millipedes scientific name: Anadenobolus monilicornis.


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## isopodgeek (Jan 26, 2021)

ArachnoBoss said:


> They're not Florida Ivory( chicopolus spinigerus) they're Othoporus ornatus common name Smokey Oak Millipede. And they yellow is Obv Bumble bee Millipedes scientific name: Anadenobolus monilicornis.


I believe Othopourus Oranatus is the scientific name for the Desert Millipede.


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## rosenkrieger (Jan 26, 2021)

isopodgeek said:


> I believe Othopourus Oranatus is the scientific name for the Desert Millipede.


Yeah, the smokey oak milli is Narceus Gordanus


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