# Anyone know of Centruroides limbatus available?



## keqwow (Nov 21, 2009)

Anyone know of anyone with Centruroides limbatus on their sale list?  I haven't come across it yet.  Thanks.


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## Gracilis (Nov 21, 2009)

No, but when you find some let me know..


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## rasputin (Nov 21, 2009)

Don't know anyone stateside right now.


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## psychofox (Nov 22, 2009)

I suspect there will be a whole lot of captive breds of this species in Europe next year, and then there's a chance that some of them will end up in the US.

This species has been in the hobby for years, it grows extremely fast, and is no harder to breed than other Centruroides species in my experience. So it's strange that this species isn't as common as many of the other Centruroides spp. we see in the hobby.


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## freeman (Nov 22, 2009)

my friend's female is about to give birth and mine is about to be mated but we are both from EU. 
btw which instar they reach maturity on?


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## rasputin (Nov 22, 2009)

freeman said:


> my friend's female is about to give birth and mine is about to be mated but we are both from EU.
> btw which instar they reach maturity on?


Males mature at 5th instar & females at 6th instar. YGPM.


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## psychofox (Nov 22, 2009)

All of my adult C. limbatus (7.8) has matured at 6th and 7th instar. Males at 6th, and females at 7th. All of my adult females are gravid, and I know of several others with gravid females, so there will be a lot of these in the hobby very soon.


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## Taryllton (Nov 22, 2009)

I want 2.8, but I'd gladly pay for 0.0.10.


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## Galapoheros (Nov 23, 2009)

There is a limbatus-like:?  species floating around the US(babies) but not everybody agrees with each other on the species.  I'm wondering if they are margaritatus.  They are from Costa Rica.  They were labeled bicolor at first.  But they don't seem to key out that way.  The adults and babies are at the Zookeeper in Austin Tx.  I saw that they are selling the babies for about $8 the last time I was there.  I don't think the adults are for sale.


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## Taryllton (Nov 23, 2009)

Galapoheros said:


> There is a limbatus-like:?  species floating around the US(babies) but not everybody agrees with each other on the species.  I'm wondering if they are margaritatus.  They are from Costa Rica.  They were labeled bicolor at first.  But they don't seem to key out that way.  The adults and babies are at the Zookeeper in Austin Tx.  I saw that they are selling the babies for about $8 the last time I was there.  I don't think the adults are for sale.


If they are, then what everyone was calling margaritatus _before_ is something else entirely...which wouldn't surprise me at all haha..Damn Centruroides.


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## Galapoheros (Nov 23, 2009)

I'm not sure what you mean.  Do you know of the ones I'm talking about advertised at the Zookeeper?  Did you get babies too?  I've seen so many pics.  I know man, I've read so much info but I don't know what is true anymore.  I had the adults from the Zookeeper on loan for a while, they are pretty big.  The female at 4 inches and the male at a solid 5.  I've got many babies but I want to let them grow up and get a bunch of babies to chunk out there but I may get rid of a few sooner.  A few other people have babies from them too and plan on doing the same I think.  The male is here in this vid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vl5jaSkuGfk


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## rasputin (Nov 23, 2009)

_Centruroides bicolor_ is a species on its own
_Centruroides margaritatus_ is a species on its own
_Centruroides margaritatus "bicolor"_ is a morph of _Centruroides margaritatus_
None of the above are really _C. limbatus_-like, _C. bicolor_ is the clossest in appearance and yet not close enough. 

And now back to our regularly scheduled thread about _C. limbatus_!


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## Galapoheros (Nov 23, 2009)

I think what gets in the US gets easily mis-ID'd because of people glancing at an internet pic and jumping too fast at an ID  There are many pics of scorps that look different having the same ID below pics on the internet when it comes to these species.  I know it's happened twice, people thinking they have C. bicolor here in the US, ..but turned out not be bicolor, at least not likely.  Rasputin, have you come across good pics of these with undisputable IDs?, or has anybody else?  Anybody, if you don't think it would help the thread, then I would very much appreciate sending me links in a PM of good pics you have confidence in, but only if you have them handy, I don't want to bother somebody else spending time looking around, I can do that and have been looking at pdfs, scetches, drawings, the best thing to do (but don't have the adults anymore).  I found this pic so I suppose IheartMantids may know of a source for C. bicolor http://www.insectgeeks.com/gallery/view/id_2401/field_time/title_Centruroides-bicolor-molting/.  I don't see him on the ABoards that often though, looks like he started to visit another forum more.  But if that scorpion there Ihearts has on that page came from the adults at the Zookeeper, so far, they don't look to be C. bicolor.  Babies were sold in the US as C. bicolor so for anybody buying babies, it'd be good to check it out the source.  I'm looking at more pdfs in the mean time but I can't attempt another dentition count.


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## rasputin (Nov 23, 2009)

Who the heck is zookeeper?


The following are from Vincent and Tom over at Exotics.NL - in the Netherlands
_C. margaritatus_






_Centruroides margaritatus 'yellow morph'_






_C. margaritatus morenoi_






_C. margaritatus "red"_ <--this is what we call the "bicolor" morph






_C. limbatus_











The following pic came from ScorpionFiles and was taken by *Dr. Carlos Viquez*
_C. bicolor_ Click here (I forgot about that whole not posting the actual pic from Scorpion Files so as to protect whoevers copyright)


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## keqwow (Nov 23, 2009)

Those are some great photos!!!


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## Galapoheros (Nov 23, 2009)

Dangit!, the computer is like a magnet!  OK, the pics, thanks, yip, ..seen most of those pics on the net.  So many color morphs within some species, interesting though, I don't think I've seen the margaritatus morenoi pic before.  From a glance, the adults I had look most like those I'd say.  Too bad I don't have them anymore.  The Zookeeper is an exotic pet store in Austin.  They have a website that is not well known, they go more for the brick and mortar thing, ..so far.  They DEFinitely don't have a full list of the inverts in the store on their page and I don't know how excited they are about shipping but I know they do, at least sometimes.  Shipping could be a regular thing for them, don't know.  They have several of those scorplings from Costa Rica in the store(last time I checked).  They like talking about inverts if anyone wants to call and talk to them about it or ordering stuff(?) (512-453-8800), of course, they have email.   http://www.zookeeperexotics.com/ZooKeeper/Home.html  They may still be convinced they are bicolor and I can't say they aren't, but I personally haven't been convinced of an ID yet.


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## rasputin (Nov 23, 2009)

This is what was "being sold" a few years ago, they are _C. margaritatus "bicolor"_. I got this particular brood from Evalduxx in Lithuania and the ones pictured were at i2. I hope this eliminated any confusion any of you may have over the species identification. As I noted in the last string of photos, Vincent and Tom from Exotics.NL have these marked as the _C. margaritatus "red"_, they are the same species - it's just a matter of toe-mae-toe/toe-ma-toe.

_C. margaritatus "bicolor"_ i2


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## rasputin (Nov 23, 2009)

Galapoheros said:


> So many color morphs within some species, interesting though, I don't think I've seen the margaritatus morenoi pic before.


_C. m. morenoi_ is actually a subspecies and if anybody stateside actually has a few...you won't hear about it for a while - some things are kept quiet until a generation or two down the line and then you'll hear about it.

Can I send you to that store to do some shopping for me? That place is cheap!


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## Taryllton (Nov 23, 2009)

According to Rasputin, I was talking about C. margaritatus "bicolor" morph.


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## Galapoheros (Nov 23, 2009)

Well maybe they ship, I bet they do.  Yeah, they are pretty cheap, man I hope they don't read this or they will raise their prices.  People could email and get a full list, there is much more there than listed on the site.  I know they need to move some stuff, that's what I was told last time I was there.


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## rasputin (Nov 23, 2009)

Taryllton said:


> According to Rasputin, I was talking about C. margaritatus "bicolor" morph.


I didn't run on a tangent did I? I thought I was responding to some specific questions but if I did run on a tangent, I'm sorry. At any rate we did kinda hijack this thread but I don't think the op is too overly concerned (at least, I hope not  ) as the initial question was answered.

Since it's just a morphological as opposed to genetic difference, it's easier to just call is _C. margaritatus_. One of the things i ran into earlier last year was people actually calling the morph a _C. bicolor_ and there was a bit of taxonomic debate over it. It got cleared up though as many of us noted the differences between _C. bicolor_ and _C. margaritatus "bicolor"_.


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## rasputin (Nov 23, 2009)

Galapoheros said:


> Well maybe they ship, I bet they do.  Yeah, they are pretty cheap, man I hope they don't read this or they will raise their prices.  People could email and get a full list, there is much more there than listed on the site.  I know they need to move some stuff, that's what I was told last time I was there.


Then you'll do my shopping for me, right? hahahahaha


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## Taryllton (Nov 23, 2009)

rasputin said:


> I didn't run on a tangent did I? I thought I was responding to some specific questions but if I did run on a tangent, I'm sorry. At any rate we did kinda hijack this thread but I don't think the op is too overly concerned (at least, I hope not  ) as the initial question was answered.
> 
> Since it's just a morphological as opposed to genetic difference, it's easier to just call is _C. margaritatus_. One of the things i ran into earlier last year was people actually calling the morph a _C. bicolor_ and there was a bit of taxonomic debate over it. It got cleared up though as many of us noted the differences between _C. bicolor_ and _C. margaritatus "bicolor"_.


Oh I don't think anyone would begrudge your posts, even if they were tangential to the OP. You answered my questions perfectly and I found it extremely informative. I was considering starting my own thread to see if someone could make sense of the whole "margaritatus-complex" thing for me, but you've squared it away quite nicely, I think.


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## rasputin (Nov 23, 2009)

Taryllton said:


> Oh I don't think anyone would begrudge your posts, even if they were tangential to the OP. You answered my questions perfectly and I found it extremely informative. I was considering starting my own thread to see if someone could make sense of the whole "margaritatus-complex" thing for me, but you've squared it away quite nicely, I think.


Glad I could take care of that for you.


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## Galapoheros (Nov 24, 2009)

I'm too busy   Hey everybody, The Zookeeper DOES ship inverts, I just got a "yes we do" in an email.  I don't know why they don't advertise on the internet more.


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## freeman (Nov 24, 2009)

well i just mated my female but i dont know it was succesfull so i will repeat it soon.


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## keqwow (Nov 24, 2009)

:drool: :drool: :drool: Why do you need to live in Poland?


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## rasputin (Nov 24, 2009)

freeman said:


> well i just mated my female but i dont know it was succesfull so i will repeat it soon.


Do you not keep them communally? I'd leave them together, they're communal - just make sure they're fed and they'll breed. Nature finds its way.


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## freeman (Nov 24, 2009)

i just got male today so i am keeping them communaly from now on. i'm only affraid that female might molt again and end as a meal.


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## rasputin (Nov 24, 2009)

freeman said:


> i just got male today so i am keeping them communaly from now on. i'm only affraid that female might molt again and end as a meal.


Ah, that makes sense.

Their colors are opposite of the sexual dimorphism of this species - are you absolutely certain that they are _C. limbatus_?


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## freeman (Nov 24, 2009)

Yes as far as i know they are both C.limbatus. This species is polymorphic so even in 1 brood youc an have both very dark and bright individuals.


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## rasputin (Nov 24, 2009)

freeman said:


> Yes as far as i know they are both C.limbatus. This species is polymorphic so even in 1 brood youc an have both very dark and bright individuals.


Interesting, I was under the impression that the color variation was a sexual dimorphism. I haven't read an ID key for them so I can't say that I'm 100% anyways.


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## freeman (Nov 24, 2009)

this is the same male from my pics with very dark female:







in fact this female is mother of my female


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## rasputin (Nov 24, 2009)

freeman said:


> in fact this female is mother of my female


Nice, that is quite the morphological difference. That female is quite stunning!


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## Galapoheros (Nov 24, 2009)

Thanks for posting those extra pics.  It happened to help me out a little more, sitting on the sideline, kept me thinking.  Looking at these pics along with looking at the others and several more on the net, I don't have C. limbatus, in case anybody was wondering too.  I think there was some miscommunication down the line to the pet store they are in where they were originally labeled C. bicolor.  I'm now pretty sure they are the bicolor morph of C. margaritatus.  I think "bicolor" was accidentally taken as the species name quoted by a park ranger in Costa Rica, instead of the description of a C. margaritatus morph ..makes sense to me now.  It was going that way in an older thread but now I'm pretty sure of it since I can see how the mistake may have happened.  Nice scorps you have!, hope to see baby pics later!


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## Michiel (Nov 25, 2009)

Yes, you are 100% right it is the Androctonus amoreuxi morph of the Lychas burdoi variation of the Centruroides imperator morph yes. :wall: :wall:   

There is no C.margaritatus bicolor morph and there are only a bazillion threads about this subject on here.


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## rasputin (Nov 25, 2009)

Michiel said:


> Yes, you are 100% right it is the Androctonus amoreuxi morph of the Lychas burdoi variation of the Centruroides imperator morph yes. :wall: :wall:
> 
> There is no C.margaritatus bicolor morph and there are only a bazillion threads about this subject on here.


Mivhael,

The red color variant of C. margaritatus is the bicolor morph as it has been coined, is it not?

As seen here:


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## Michiel (Nov 25, 2009)

rasputin said:


> Mivhael,
> 
> The red color variant of C. margaritatus is the bicolor morph as it has been coined, is it not?
> 
> As seen here:



Ras,

Aren't WE in a cheeky mood today? Ya gatz ta be shitting me, man, I am not going to say anything serious, cuz ya obviously pullin' me leg  

Fo shizzle,

Michiel


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## Jacek Szubert (Dec 30, 2009)

Heya guys,

Here's fresh pic of my female giving birth. Maybe tomorrow I'll be able to get better quality - my cell phone camera doesn't cope very well with artificial lighting...







Actually it's the same dark female which picture freeman posted before, mated with lighter male from the same pic. It's her 4th brood, usually those broods are pretty numerous - one time even 35. On this picture there are a little less, but worth to add that she's still giving bitrth.  All of her kids are somewhere in European hobbyist [most in Norway i guess ;]. I think it shouldn't be any problem with popularization this great species - it's not hard to raise, and as you can see very prolific.

Jacek.


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## freeman (Dec 31, 2009)

jaceks said:


> Heya guys,
> 
> Here's fresh pic of my female giving birth. Maybe tomorrow I'll be able to get better quality - my cell phone camera doesn't cope very well with artificial lighting...
> 
> ...


congrats. i can't wait for my female to pop


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## Nomadinexile (Dec 31, 2009)

rasputin said:


> Who the heck is zookeeper?


Zookeepers is the most kick tail arachnid store around for many states with what knowledge I have.  If you watch them often, you can find anything legal.   The manager has been studying and researching local tarantula species forever.  The owner, the managers, and the couple "workers", are all hard core invert or reptile keepers/collectors/breeders.    They have amazing selection.  Good prices on most things.  (They always seem to have tarantula slings for $3-$8.)  They don't mislabel.  They tell people what they are getting and how to actually care for them.  You can get info for trips from them.  They do a lot of rescue, and education type stuff.   They have a sloth on display.   I think she is an adult.   Amazing.  They usually have 10+ dart frog species, (bred by a friend) ,   and golly gee, what else could I say?   I mean sure, they aren't perfect in every way, shape, and form, everyday all day.  But as far as "pet" stores go...  For arachnids anyway, you don't get better.  I mean, they have vinagaroon slings right now.  They get solpugids.   They have local centipede slings, I forget what they are, but they can get 10", are black with red heads?  something "castineps", anyway, they have 2"-3" for $8 right now I think.   Oh, I really do think, for arachnids, you don't get much better, at least Anywhere around here.    Zoo keepers is awesome.  A benefit to the hobby.  If you make it here, I'll take you over there.


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## freeman (Mar 31, 2010)

C.limbatus (137 days gestation)


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