# ID Help on Malaysian spiders



## Botar (Sep 21, 2006)

I'm trying to get an ID on these bad boys so they can be brought into the US.  To the genus level at least.  Anyone have any ideas?  They are from western peninsular Malaysia... most likely Cameron Highlands.

Botar


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## RodG (Sep 22, 2006)

*Awesome Spiders!!!*

Botar,

Best of luck getting these awesome spiders identified and more importantly over here!!!:worship:


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## Scolopendra55 (Sep 22, 2006)

1, 3, and 4 look like Ctenids, I'm not sure about the 2nd one but they are all absolutly stunning! Are they going to be bred?


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## Botar (Sep 22, 2006)

Scolopendra55 said:


> 1, 3, and 4 look like Ctenids, I'm not sure about the 2nd one but they are all absolutly stunning! Are they going to be bred?


I think 1 and 3 are actually the same spider... just different shots.  As for breeding... it has been said I'll breed anything that holds still... but that pretty much goes for spiders as well. 

Botar


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## buthus (Sep 22, 2006)

Those are truely beautiful!  
How large is the second one?  I want a couple of those!  Check is in the mail!


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## Crotalus (Sep 22, 2006)

Scolopendra55 said:


> 1, 3, and 4 look like Ctenids, I'm not sure about the 2nd one but they are all absolutly stunning! Are they going to be bred?


They are not ctenids, Id say they are sparrasids (huntsman spiders). The red one are really stunning!
Dont know what the second might be


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## sick4x4 (Sep 22, 2006)

wow mate they look great and from the sounds of it there is a line forming for dibs on them..... sooo let us know when they arrive wow.....you are the man:worship: i looked at a few could it be that that 1&3 are juveniles...Malaysian orange huntsman (heteropodidae family) the reddish orange one?? just a guess


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## swatc1h (Sep 22, 2006)

establish a good amount of breeders and mate them for offsprings, just dont go going selling them ASAP when they arrive. 

What is the second sp. on second pix.


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## Steven Gielis (Sep 22, 2006)

1 and 3 is the same spider. It's a sparassid and the genus should be Rithymna. The last one should also be a sparassid.


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## Michael Jacobi (Sep 22, 2006)

@ sick4x4 - There is no family "heteropodidae". The genus _Heteropoda _and other true huntsman spiders are Sparassidae. 

I believe Steven is right about the ID - genus _Rhitymna _. I wonder if the last photo is an ultimate male of the same species shown in #1 and #3?. I'd like to see a photo of the other spider (#2) that shows its ocular arrangement - that is the real puzzle.

Cheers, Michael


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## Botar (Sep 22, 2006)

Thanks guys... I haven't got them yet as there has to be at least an ID to the genus level (I think) on the paperwork.

@ Michael - You can disregard my phone message now... thanks.

I'll get pics of them up once I get them in.  I'm hoping to get a few down to Randy May for some really good shots as well.

Botar


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## Parahybana3590 (Sep 22, 2006)

the second one looks friggen awesome! If you do get the spiders do you know how many you will be getting?


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## Steven Gielis (Sep 22, 2006)

Michael, I don't think the last one is a male Rithymna spec. It's certainly a sparassid buth the eye arrangement is different. And the coloration is really different buth that's not always a clue.


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## sick4x4 (Sep 22, 2006)

Michael Jacobi said:


> @ sick4x4 - There is no family "heteropodidae". The genus _Heteropoda _and other true huntsman spiders are Sparassidae.
> 
> I believe Steven is right about the ID - genus _Rhitymna _. I wonder if the last photo is an ultimate male of the same species shown in #1 and #3?. I'd like to see a photo of the other spider (#2) that shows its ocular arrangement - that is the real puzzle.
> 
> Cheers, Michael


tanks mate..i had a list of common names(we all know how helpful that is) and the goggle image search was sparse....


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## GoTerps (Sep 22, 2006)

A friend sent me that photo of the 2nd-spider a couple weeks back, really interesting looking... would like to know what it is.

Eric


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## psionix (Sep 22, 2006)

Hey Charles, 

i think that #1 & #3 are the same thing and have been imported before under the name "_Thelctiocopis modesta_"  ("Malaysian Golden Huntsman")

#4 has been imported before too, under the name "_Rhitymna sp._" ("Malaysian Rusty-Red Huntsman")

...no idea on #2

hope this helps point you in the right direction!  




EDIT ~ if you are importing from Malaysia can you see if you can round up some _Heteropoda boiei_ too?  i'd buy those in a heartbeat.


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## Botar (Sep 22, 2006)

I'm not importing.  I know a reptile importer that is bringing stuff in and I'm taking his arachnids when he gets them in.  No idea what will be coming in or when as of yet... just tons more of the Singapore blues.


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## Gordon (Sep 22, 2006)

The first and third spider are Heteropoda sp. A species that is not exactly determinated at the moment.
The fourth is Rhitymna sp. possibly Rhitymna pinangensis?
The second could be a species of the genus Thelcticopis.


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## telow (Sep 22, 2006)

i dont have a clue  but i want the second one BAD its neat looking


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## Stylopidae (Sep 22, 2006)

I believe the first (and third) are both the orange heteropoda species that have recently become popular in Europe. There is no species name that I know of.

The fourth looks like it *could* be a male of the same species.


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## Stefan2209 (Sep 26, 2006)

Botar said:


> I'm trying to get an ID on these bad boys so they can be brought into the US.  To the genus level at least.  Anyone have any ideas?  They are from western peninsular Malaysia... most likely Cameron Highlands.
> 
> Botar


Hi,

first and third looks like an undescribed Heteropoda species, to my info´s Peter Jäger (SENCKENBERG) is just working on the description.

Donno about the second.

The last one resembles Rhytimna spec., a closer look into it may perhaps pay out....

Good luck!

Greetings,

Stefan


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## Bastian Drolshagen (Sep 29, 2006)

hi, just a simple question:
How do you differntiate Rhytimna from Heteropoda or other Sparassidae?


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## RodG (Oct 13, 2006)

Well, I just got in 2 of #1 & #3 and 1 of #4 from Botar this morning and I can say the pictures do not do them justice. Way cool spiders! Now if only one of the females is gravid  Thanks Botar for the spiders and let's hope you get in more of these and most importantly the #2 spider in November!!!:worship:


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## Botar (Nov 2, 2006)

Here is a link to some of Randy's photos of #2... I'm anxious for him to get some good shots of #1/#3.  I have some smaller blonde that I was assuming were mature males of #1/#3, but one of them molted... the pedipalps kept the same size/shape, so I'm at a complete loss now.  I believe one of the females I kept may be making a sac, so we'll see what happens there.  If it works out, I'll save back a bunch and we'll get a positive look at the males/females then.

http://venomlist.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=13230

I hope the link isn't against the rules now... if so, just let me know.

Botar


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## lucanidae (Nov 2, 2006)

Penultimate males of most huntsmen will have large palps that look like they are mature.  But unless you see the haematodocha they aren't ready yet. I've been confused by many Australian huntsmen that look like they've had post-ultimate molts but really have just become mature.


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## Sof (Nov 3, 2006)

Wow I hope we get those in Canada some day  That yellow one looks amazing


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## Peter Grabowitz (Mar 21, 2007)

This is species from Malaysia sold as "Heteropoda boiei" this time

2 different females, this second one is mine, I have 2 eggcases this year


http://www.gherp.com/gherp/sms1.jpg


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## Bastian Drolshagen (Mar 21, 2007)

hi Peter, 
what makes you believe this is a Heteropoda sp.? I can only see that it is a Sparassidae, but I wouldn´t dare to claim it´s a Heteropoda sp. especially not when I´m going to sell those just like you.

Again:


> just a simple question:
> How do you differntiate Rhytimna from Heteropoda or other Sparassidae?


It´s the same but the other way round. How do you differntiate Heteropoda sp. from other Sparassidae (except from the habitus, which can also differ within one genus).


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## Peter Grabowitz (Mar 22, 2007)

dear Bastian,

I WROTE "sold as"  "Heteropda"..... 
I have no idea which species is it....
do you belive me? real! 

I am only a breeder, not an expert like you.... ;-))


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## Bastian Drolshagen (Mar 22, 2007)

hi Peter,
I´m not an expert too (especially not on Sparassidae), that´s why I´m asking.
I just wanted to know how to differntiate Heteropoda sp. from other Sparassidae (maybe scopula on tarsi; shape of the sternum...).
I just mentioned it because you oftentimes sell spiders under incorrect names, for example your C. brachyephalus (which is definetly no C. brachycephalus because of its SAB) or your Latrodectus lilianae (which are black <-- although the first description of this species says it´s white with a black pattern consisting of Vs (chevrons) on its abdomen).
Don´t get me wrong, I definetly don´t want to defame you here. I just want to mention that selling spiders under names such as Sparassidae sp. "Malaysia" is better than selling spiders under incorrect names.
Nobody said that those aren´t Heteropoda boiei, but it´s not sure unless somebody identified those Sparassidae as Heteropoda boiei.


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## Peter Grabowitz (Mar 23, 2007)

Improver said:


> ....
> I´m not an expert too (especially not on Sparassidae),


YES this is TRUE!! You are NOT an expert, but you do like you were one!



> ... for example your C. brachyephalus (which is definetly no C. brachycephalus....


this are Ceratogyrus brachycephalus from bread of Paul Carpenter, 
that I bought last year for my breeding group. They were intentified by Richard Gallon!!! 
And Richard IS ONE EXPERT! 




> .... Latrodectus lilianae (which are black <-- although the first description of this species says it´s white with a black pattern consisting of Vs (chevrons) on its abdomen).


1. you NEVER seen my Latr. lilianae

2. the pics on the description of this species are take by PRESERVED specimens 
(many preserved specimens lost therir color in alcohol!!!!)

3. in Spain there are only Latr.tredecimgutattus and Latr. lilianae 

(formely "Latr.schuhi", and the "L.schuhi"  ARE blackish

4. this is NOT possible the mate a female of Latr. tredecimgutattus with one male of latr. lilianae 
NOR Latr. tredecimgutattus with one male of the sa called "black Form of L.tredecimgutattus" 

BTW - the TRUE "black Form of L.tredecimgutattus" is KARAKURT from Kazakhstan not Latr. lilianae from Spain




> ...I just want to mention that selling spiders under names such as Sparassidae sp. "Malaysia" is better than selling spiders under incorrect names....


so think I too....!!! but at moment there are more than 10 different species from Malaysia on the market....!



> Nobody said that those aren´t Heteropoda boiei, but it´s not sure unless somebody identified those Sparassidae as Heteropoda boiei.


Spider under this name sell one german dealer - I never told they are H.boiei,
but they are sold as "Heteropoda boiei"  

KEEP COOL, Bastian you're so young....


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## Bastian Drolshagen (Mar 23, 2007)

hi,


Peter Grabowitz said:


> YES this is TRUE!! You are NOT an expert, but you do like you were one!


How true, it´s just a fact that I´m not an expert on Sparassidae and I don´t even want to be one, cause those spiders do NOT interest me that much. I´m concentrating on other spider families.



> 1. you NEVER seen my Latr. lilianae


Sure I did, in the last few months I got several emails with pictures of Latrodectus sp. you sold as L. lilianae! Additionally I´ve got some specimen of that bloodline, originally from Almera Spain. 



> 2. the pics on the description of this species are take by PRESERVED specimens
> (many preserved specimens lost therir color in alcohol!!!!)


Sure, the coloration looses intesity when a specimen is deposed in alcohol, especially when it´s lying in there for a long time. But that´s coloration and not the pattern! What´s shown in the first description of L. lilianae is a pattern and not a coloration! Melic claims that the pattern of L. lilinae are pretty constant in both sexes, so a complete black Latrodectus rules L. lilianae out.



> 3. in Spain there are only Latr.tredecimgutattus and Latr. lilianae


So what, does that make every Latrodectus sp. that doesn´t show 13 red dots (pattern) a L. lilianae?



> (formely "Latr.schuhi", and the "L.schuhi"  ARE blackish


The only thing you could mean is L. schuchi, which has been synonymized with L. tredecimguttatus by Melic 2000 in his first description of L. lilianae (wonder why Platnick doesn´t consider that).
1 year later Schmidt, Piepho & Samm synonymized L. schuchi with L. mactans. 



> 4. this is NOT possible the mate a female of Latr. tredecimgutattus with one male of latr. lilianae
> NOR Latr. tredecimgutattus with one male of the sa called "black Form of L.tredecimgutattus"


I never claimed anything like that.



> BTW - the TRUE "black Form of L.tredecimgutattus" is KARAKURT from Kazakhstan not Latr. lilianae from Spain


I´m sorry to say that, but here you´re definetly wrong and I can proof it. 
It´s funny timing that you mention that now, cause I´ve  got the first description of L. lilianae and there´re pretty nice drawings of the spermathecae of L. tredecimguttatus and L. lilianae (in comparison) in there. So what I did is getting my Latrodectus sp. "Almera" (formerly sold as L. lilianae --> YES, that black one!) and excluded its spermathecae. I compared the spermathecae with the two given in the first description (which can easily be distinguished) and guess what? The spermathecae of that Latrodectus sp. "Almera" looked exactly the same like the one of L. tredecimguttatus. The same was with the bifid abdominal setae - it is the same as described for L. tredecimguttatus.




> Spider under this name sell one german dealer - I never told they are H.boiei,
> but they are sold as "Heteropoda boiei"


I know, and I´ve seen those are sold as H. boiei (not by you). 



> KEEP COOL, Bastian you're so young....


I´m always trying 
As mentioned before, I don´t want to defame you, to me it´s just conversation about spiders and not a argument. It´s not ment personally.


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## Peter Grabowitz (Mar 23, 2007)

Improver said:


> ......As mentioned before, I don´t want to defame you, to me it´s just conversation about spiders and not a argument. It´s not ment personally.


so do I, too 

we will drink a beer in Euskirchen, I hope


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## Bastian Drolshagen (Mar 23, 2007)

I´ll be there


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## Maybrick (Mar 25, 2007)

Hi everybody,
I think, this specimen really should be labeled as Sparassidae spec. ex Malaysia. And the reason is this and other reasons: In all pictures I have seen, H. boiei was coloured green with winered patterns (looks just wonderful, my dream Sparassidae ;-)).

Here is a picture:
http://www.fotoinsekt.de/spinnen220.htm

In a older thread of a german forum, I have read a quote (from a E-Mail) of Dr. Peter Jäger. His answer to the picture: (Quote: "Es ist tatsächlich eine Sparassidae. Mit großer Wahrscheinlichkeit eine Heteropoda boiei (Doleschall 1859).")

Just wanted to give these infos.
No matter what, this Sparassidae looks very nice, too ;-)


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## Peter Grabowitz (Mar 28, 2007)

Maybrick said:


> http://www.fotoinsekt.de/spinnen220.htm
> 
> In a older thread of a german forum, I have read a quote (from a E-Mail) of Dr. Peter Jäger. His answer to the picture: (Quote: "Es ist tatsächlich eine Sparassidae. Mit großer Wahrscheinlichkeit eine Heteropoda boiei (Doleschall 1859).")
> 
> ...




Today are the slings hatched from the first eggcase by me....
there are about 150 specimens.... 
I labeled this box 
"probably Sparassidae, origin: surly Taman Negara/penisular Malaysia"  ;-)


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## T.Raab (Mar 28, 2007)

> this are Ceratogyrus brachycephalus from bread of Paul Carpenter,
> that I bought last year for my breeding group. They were intentified by Richard Gallon!!!
> And Richard IS ONE EXPERT!


Hi Peter,

can you show me a picture of the underside of the Spider? 

Infact there were some mistakes in the past with the Name "C. brachycephalus". If you show me pics from the horn AND the underside, i can clear tell you if COULD be a real _brachycephalus_ sensu HEWITT or not.


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## Peter Grabowitz (Apr 6, 2007)

T.Raab said:


> Hi Peter,
> 
> can you show me a picture of the underside of the Spider?
> 
> Infact there were some mistakes in the past with the Name "C. brachycephalus". If you show me pics from the horn AND the underside, i can clear tell you if COULD be a real _brachycephalus_ sensu HEWITT or not.














is it one?


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## T.Raab (Apr 6, 2007)

Hi Peter,

the single SAB with light booklung covers and the Horn looks really like a _C. brachycephalus_ senus HEWITT. The problem, that Bastian means, is that in the past often _C. sanderi_ (with double SAB) was sold as _C. brachycephalus_.


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