# Orthoporus ornatus -- the other nine months of the year



## ErinM31 (Apr 15, 2016)

So far as we know, no one has successfully had _Orthoporus ornatus_ reproduce in captivity. In talking with people who live where these millipedes are native and reading some old studies on their role in the ecosystem, it came to my attention that in the wild, these millipedes are dormant for much of the year. Do we not seek to provide our millipedes with an ideal habitat -- food and moisture? But perhaps it is not natural for them to have this year round. While the other millipedes and isopods that I keep will often show particular interest in a novel food, they may tire of it before it is much eaten or show no interest at all the next time. Not so with my _O. ornatus_. They munch on their dry leaves, etc., but any fresh food is quickly devoured.













Bacchanalian Excess



__ ErinM31
__ Apr 10, 2016
__ 2
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gold
millipede
millipedes
myriapods
ornatus
orthoporus
texas




						Last night I gave my Orthoporus ornatus millipedes a dish of fresh vegetables, some catfood, and...
					




Could this be why they are reportedly shorter-lived in captivity? They are preparing for dry lean times which never come? Perhaps this is also when they would lay fertile eggs, times so that the young emerge with the rainy season and can eat their fill. Has anyone tried ceasing to give their _O. ornatus_ moisture? Would they burrow, lay their eggs, and stay in a sort of dormancy until the next rainy season?

Or perhaps it is more complicated still...

Crawford (1974) reported that _O. ornatus_ were found to overwinter in stony soil, specifically, in nests of the ant, _Novomessor cockerelli_, whose diet consists of seeds and plant matter but primarily, dead insects. I found this surprising until learning that a number of millipede species are, in fact, myrmecophiles. They may provide some cleaning duties for the ants or the ants simply tolerate them because the millipedes' chemical defenses repel attack. Whatever the millipedes do or don't for the ants, could they require the ants for successful reproduction? Some food source or even care of the eggs by the ants? To my knowledge, most Spirostrepdid eggs receive little to no care so it would be strange for _O. ornatus_ eggs to require anything from another species. Perhaps the female only lays eggs in the safety of the ant nest (whereas a seemingly fine location during the rainy season may be completely dry in another month). Note that I have read nowhere else of any relationship between _O. ornatus_ and _N. cockerelli_ nor any other species of ant. But how much study has been done on where _O. ornatus_ overwinter or what is necessary for successful reproduction? Make of it what you will.

I would LOVE to hear people's thoughts, especially those who have kept these beautiful millipedes and perhaps tried different methods to induce successful reproduction.

Reactions: Like 2 | Informative 2


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## zonbonzovi (Apr 16, 2016)

To my knowledge there is one report of reproductive success in captivity but I haven't since heard/seen an update.  That report noted a very deep substrate where the top layer mimicked the arid surface layer that these originate from while the bottom layer retained a lot of moisture.  Typically, many hobbyists assume a dry habitat without much attention paid to seasonal changes or potential microhabitats.  I this species is also only available as adults collected at the surface during monsoon season.  I think those two factors are most important in why there is little to no reproduction in captivity.  I recall reading something or other about the subcuticle minimizing water loss in dry environments along with the retreat from the surface aiding survival during times when moisture and food are in short supply.  Also, and this may have originated with Crawford, the egg membranes show changes in porosity seasonally(I may be paraphrasing poorly hear based on memory so take that as you will )

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## ErinM31 (Apr 17, 2016)

Thank you for the input! 


zonbonzovi said:


> To my knowledge there is one report of reproductive success in captivity but I haven't since heard/seen an update.  That report noted a very deep substrate where the top layer mimicked the arid surface layer that these originate from while the bottom layer retained a lot of moisture.  Typically, many hobbyists assume a dry habitat without much attention paid to seasonal changes or potential microhabitats.  I this species is also only available as adults collected at the surface during monsoon season.  I think those two factors are most important in why there is little to no reproduction in captivity.  I recall reading something or other about the subcuticle minimizing water loss in dry environments along with the retreat from the surface aiding survival during times when moisture and food are in short supply.  Also, and this may have originated with Crawford, the egg membranes show changes in porosity seasonally(I may be paraphrasing poorly hear based on memory so take that as you will )


Thank you for the info! I may try backing off food and moisture at the surface once I have deepened the substrate further (and have confirmed that I have at least one of each gender -- either this species is tricky for me or I only have females). I confess I am a bit nervous on changing their conditions when they appear to be happy and healthy but it may be better in the long run and so long as they have underground moisture that they can retreat to, I would think they should be fine -- they are a desert species after all. In a few months I will -- for now I am enjoying my "arboreal" millipedes. 





On an unrelated note, the above is the first time I observed a millipede drinking water. It makes sense they would take it as droplets of rain or dew.

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## ErinM31 (May 16, 2016)

The experiment has begun. It was a bit earlier than I intended for a number of reasons, but all three millipedes have been burrowed under the substrate for several weeks now. I check the moisture level of the lower substrate from time to time, by eye and finger (bought a soil moisture meter but it was worthless, stayed on dry when I tested it in mud  ). Anyway, I guess they're hibernating for now... probably won't lay eggs for a while yet... or have and they stay dormant for a while too... (I hope my _O. ornatus_ weren't virgins because I think all three of mine were girls, but being wild-caught and then kept with others of their kind before being sold to me, surely they would have mated... or I'm really hoping for a miracle, lol). Time, temperature, and moisture are the factors now... I guess I should wait nearly a year before I make it rain... Temperature is the only thing I really can't change now as in a one bedroom apartment with numerous other lifeforms, I have to settle on what we can all live with... Someday I'm going to have incubators for species that need it a bit cooler or warmer...

Oh, and the native cacti are doing well at least. I rotate the terrarium regularly so they don't grow crooked. 

I miss my lovely golden millipedes and hope that at worst this does them no harm... If I have three healthy adults plus plings next year it will be worth it!

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## Hisserdude (May 16, 2016)

ErinM31 said:


> The experiment has begun. It was a bit earlier than I intended for a number of reasons, but all three millipedes have been burrowed under the substrate for several weeks now. I check the moisture level of the lower substrate from time to time, by eye and finger (bought a soil moisture meter but it was worthless, stayed on dry when I tested it in mud  ). Anyway, I guess they're hibernating for now... probably won't lay eggs for a while yet... or have and they stay dormant for a while too... (I hope my _O. ornatus_ weren't virgins because I think all three of mine were girls, but being wild-caught and then kept with others of their kind before being sold to me, surely they would have mated... or I'm really hoping for a miracle, lol). Time, temperature, and moisture are the factors now... I guess I should wait nearly a year before I make it rain... Temperature is the only thing I really can't change now as in a one bedroom apartment with numerous other lifeforms, I have to settle on what we can all live with... Someday I'm going to have incubators for species that need it a bit cooler or warmer...
> 
> Oh, and the native cacti are doing well at least. I rotate the terrarium regularly so they don't grow crooked.
> 
> I miss my lovely golden millipedes and hope that at worst this does them no harm... If I have three healthy adults plus plings next year it will be worth it!


Very cool, keep us posted on their development, you could be the first person to successfully breed these!

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## ErinM31 (May 17, 2016)

Hisserdude said:


> Very cool, keep us posted on their development, you could be the first person to successfully breed these!


Will do and I very much hope so!

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## Squidsalad (Jun 9, 2016)

This thread is a little old, but I thought I'd post here anyway.  My boyfriend and I went out to collect scorpions in Avra Valley, and the millipedes are starting to come out. We saw maybe 20. I caught two of them. It hasn't rained yet,  but the cicadas are out.   I thought that was interesting.  I'm going to get more and try keeping them in a habitat similar to Avra Valley. I was thinking of trying to feed them decomposing cholla and creosote?

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## Squidsalad (Jun 9, 2016)

One more thought: its possible they come out during a rainstorm to breed, feed, and mostly live underground. Maybe in winter is when they're dormant.  I only saw one in September, but we weren't looking for millies.

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## ErinM31 (Jun 9, 2016)

Squidsalad said:


> This thread is a little old, but I thought I'd post here anyway.  My boyfriend and I went out to collect scorpions in Avra Valley, and the millipedes are starting to come out. We saw maybe 20. I caught two of them. It hasn't rained yet,  but the cicadas are out.   I thought that was interesting.  I'm going to get more and try keeping them in a habitat similar to Avra Valley. I was thinking of trying to feed them decomposing cholla and creosote?


Thank you for posting! This is a long-term project and thus intended to be a long-term thread that never dies, lol!  That's interesting! Perhaps they come out at different times in different areas of the country based on the local seasonal changes? I should check with @MrCrackerpants but I believe those in west Texas come out in spring along with the rain. Do you know if and when there is a usual rainy season in Avra valley? What you propose sounds like a great idea!  Be sure to give them at least 4-6" of substrate. The definitely love cholla, both to crawl on and through and nibble on -- like an edible jungle gym!  I wanted to try feeding mine dried creosote but the only sources I found were crazy expensive (because it was being sold as some health-promoting supplement for humans). They will also eagerly eat most produce, as well as cat/dog/fish-food.



Squidsalad said:


> One more thought: its possible they come out during a rainstorm to breed, feed, and mostly live underground. Maybe in winter is when they're dormant.  I only saw one in September, but we weren't looking for millies.


That's along the lines of what I am thinking too!  I'm not sure when I should encourage mine to resurface; I had been thinking that they only come out once a year. To my knowledge, their life history has only been studied in the Big Bend, Texas area -- perhaps it could be different elsewhere? I would be very happy if you kept us updated on your observations of these gorgeous millipedes both when and where you see them in the wild, and how yours do in captivity.


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## Squidsalad (Jun 9, 2016)

These are from June 2015. Same pede. Seen around late afternoon, gates pass area. 





	

		
			
		

		
	
 And these are from September 20, 2015.  


This year they were also out in June. I saw one juvenile near an adult. I should have got them both.    I'm going back to collect a few more. I know they like human flesh. My fingers were the only thing I saw them scraping at. 

The humidity according to Google right now is about 26%. Honestly,  I don't know what they are doing.  I only see them wandering. The areas I see them are compacted arid soil with rocks surrounded by creosote,cholla, and mesquite, some sandy washes. Our soil is high in calcium and salts.


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## ErinM31 (Jun 9, 2016)

Squidsalad said:


> This year they were also out in June. I saw one juvenile near an adult. I should have got them both.    I'm going back to collect a few more. I know they like human flesh. My fingers were the only thing I saw them scraping at.
> 
> The humidity according to Google right now is about 26%. Honestly,  I don't know what they are doing.  I only see them wandering. The areas I see them are compacted arid soil with rocks surrounded by creosote,cholla, and mesquite, some sandy washes. Our soil is high in calcium and salts.


Thank you for sharing your photos! 

Aww, the millipede was only exfoliating your fingers!  Although many millipedes and isopods will readily eat meat, dead insects, etc., these don't always wait for the insect to die! Check out @Mastigoproctus 's thread: Killer Orthoporus! He also has great advice for keeping these millipedes: Orthoporus ornatus housing

I'm surprised they are out in the habitat you describe when it isn't raining. While dank conditions are bad for them, mine were often seeking out moisture and drinking water droplets.

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## Mastigoproctus (Jun 10, 2016)

Mine are out now too and it's been rather dry here outside, this is when they start emerging here in the wild and mine too are becoming active because of that I think. They were all under for a long time, my big one molted last year and hit 8" after that I didn't see her till now, I had forgotten how badly she dwarfed the others hahaha, I posted a thread on here a while back with pics of her by a ruler and made a video of her and other varieties all together. Still no sign or reproduction, I'm going to switch the setup I have to a much larger one, out doors of course. I think I need over a foot of substrate to make it happen, we will see though. I'm going to go collect the beginning of next month, I'll have coppers, Percha Giants, possibly golds if I make it to Texas so hopefully I can get some mixing happening in a large outdoor setup.

Also be aware that over feeding of insect proteins can be harmful so do NOT use it as a primary food source, supliment vary little into the diet. I think dried meat is likely better for them as I sometimes see them munching on dried decaying animal carcasses in the wild, bones too so I'm assuming that's a more "natural" diet vs feeding a injured cricket as I showed in my video hahaha.

Hope everyone is haveing a great day as always! Haven't been on much, busy, busy these days but I figured I would post an update on my progress at getting babies or lack there of I guess.

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## ErinM31 (Jun 10, 2016)

Mastigoproctus said:


> Mine are out now too and it's been rather dry here outside, this is when they start emerging here in the wild and mine too are becoming active because of that I think. They were all under for a long time, my big one molted last year and hit 8" after that I didn't see her till now, I had forgotten how badly she dwarfed the others hahaha, I posted a thread on here a while back with pics of her by a ruler and made a video of her and other varieties all together. Still no sign or reproduction, I'm going to switch the setup I have to a much larger one, out doors of course. I think I need over a foot of substrate to make it happen, we will see though. I'm going to go collect the beginning of next month, I'll have coppers, Percha Giants, possibly golds if I make it to Texas so hopefully I can get some mixing happening in a large outdoor setup.
> 
> Also be aware that over feeding of insect proteins can be harmful so do NOT use it as a primary food source, supliment vary little into the diet. I think dried meat is likely better for them as I sometimes see them munching on dried decaying animal carcasses in the wild, bones too so I'm assuming that's a more "natural" diet vs feeding a injured cricket as I showed in my video hahaha.
> 
> Hope everyone is haveing a great day as always! Haven't been on much, busy, busy these days but I figured I would post an update on my progress at getting babies or lack there of I guess.


Aww, so even with going underground for a time, still no reproduction?  I bet your outdoor setup with deeper substrate will yield success if anything does! How long did yours stay buried for? I thought rain was what brought them back out. If not, then I am not sure how or when I should summon mine to come out again.

I'd love to see more photos of your millipedes and those you find next month!  Do you know what secies the Perchas are? Undescribed as yet or possibly a sub species of _O. otnatus_?

Hope you're having a great day as well! Keep us updated on your collecting and breeding ventures!


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## Squidsalad (Jun 10, 2016)

It's so close to raining. The Tucson area is weird in that some parts will be raining,  and others will not be. The humidity was up last night. I think the millipedes follow a cycle similar to the cicadas.
I feel like there is so much we don't know about them. I seriously want to follow them all night so I can see their secrets!

I was thinking about that too! An outdoor setup. I don't know if I will or not.  I'm going to set up another enclosure.  We're going out millipeding Sunday night.  I want to try a desert type enclosure.

I think adult millipedes can handle low humidity, high ventilation for a short period of time before having to burrow again.  It's moist underground and dry uptop.

Thank you so much for the help and wonderful conversation! 


*


Spoiler: dead mouse picture here,beware!








*

I fed them both dead pinkie mice last night.   They loved it! One of them are all the organs and most of the muscle. I figure its like carrion. I don't want to overfeed the pedes on carrion so, its definitely a treat.

I've currently got them in a hardwood leaf set up. I got the substrate from bugsincyberspace.

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## Squidsalad (Jun 13, 2016)

From June 12,2016 : 




	

		
			
		

		
	
I'll upload more later, with comments!

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## Squidsalad (Jun 13, 2016)




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## Squidsalad (Jun 13, 2016)

Babies eating dried scat.



	

		
			
		

		
	
Tiny pedeling. The smallest I've seen.

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## SDCPs (Jun 16, 2016)

ErinM31 said:


> I check the moisture level of the lower substrate from time to time, by eye and finger (bought a soil moisture meter but it was worthless, stayed on dry when I tested it in mud  )


LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!

Squidsalad, that last photo from June 12,2016 looks like an A. gigas!


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## Squidsalad (Jun 17, 2016)

I tried to measure the biggest, but they won't stop moving! They're big.

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## ErinM31 (Jun 17, 2016)

@Squidsalad thank you for sharing all the photos!  Neat to see the little ones too!


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## ErinM31 (Jun 23, 2016)

One of my millipedes has emerged from hibernation. I wondered if maybe I added too much water recently, but the other two are still below and sadly I see that she has a very bad molting injury.  Not only is there the black scabbing, but it looks like some of the exoskeleton may be missing from part of that segment. How could such a dreadful injury happen?! No, I certainly haven't gone digging or moving anything that is in the substrate -- I learned that lesson -- the only exception being the removal of a dying succulent that was infested with fungus gnats.  That was, however, quite a few weeks ago and by her overall pale appearance, I would say that she molted quite recently. Is it ridiculous to suspect the cacti? They are hardy locals, grown from broken pieces I found and survive inundation as well as drought. I've heard that these millipedes like to burrow among plant roots -- surely they would not if roots regularly broke into their molting chambers! Perhaps it is this particular species of cactus? The only invertebrates in the tank besides the three _O. ornatus_ are some fungus gnats (working on bringing down their numbers with traps) and maybe a few springtails. Do bad molts just happen sometimes with every species? Is there anything that I can do to at least make her more comfortable? I doubt very much that she has long to live.


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## Hisserdude (Jun 23, 2016)

That's horrible, I hope she survives. Could it be lack of moisture? If the air is too dry in the molting chamber then that could have been the reason for the mismolt, or if she made her molting chamber in an area that the ceiling of the cell could have been rather dry, then it could have collapsed on her, dryer substrate does not hold it's shape well.

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## ErinM31 (Jun 23, 2016)

Hisserdude said:


> That's horrible, I hope she survives. Could it be lack of moisture? If the air is too dry in the molting chamber then that could have been the reason for the mismolt, or if she made her molting chamber in an area that the ceiling of the cell could have been rather dry, then it could have collapsed on her, dryer substrate does not hold it's shape well.


Oh, that might be it, or more likely when I was adding water just this week as I noticed the substrate had gotten drier that I intended to keep it!  I should have thought of this and been even more careful in how I added the water. I am already thinking of how I might redo this set-up once the other two emerge (hopefully in good health!!!), sort of underground irrigation since presumably when they are underground, they are in an area of soil maintaining some moisture while the soil above them has become dry.


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## SDCPs (Jun 25, 2016)

Could you get a photo? If so we can give you our predictions on how bad the molt is. Bad molts do happen every now and then, unfortunately!


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## ErinM31 (Jun 25, 2016)

SDCPs said:


> Could you get a photo? If so we can give you our predictions on how bad the molt is. Bad molts do happen every now and then, unfortunately!


This is the worst of the injury:





I currently have her in a dry ICU with a water dish:


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## ErinM31 (Jun 28, 2016)

The above millipede looks to be  healing well and I have moved her back to the main enclosure -- where a second millipede has now emerged! I guess I overdid the last watering but the substrate looked really dry to me and the substrate is deep. Well, I would rather they emerge early and be okay than die of dehydration. Maybe they were in no danger of the latter but I am still a newbie and the substrate looked to me like it was getting dry toward the bottom layer. Anyway, my second girl emerged looking just fine -- a bit plump in fact. She was thirsty though and when I misted a corner, went over to drink the water droplets from the glass.

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## mickiem (Oct 25, 2016)

My Orthoporus ornatus drink from a shallow plate.  I don't use water bowls except for in this enclosure because the substrate is drier and I see them drinking a lot.  I haven't sexed mine but I have a dozen or more so I likely have pairs. I feed them gourds; that's what they like!  How are yours doing @ErinM31 ?


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## ErinM31 (Oct 29, 2016)

mickiem said:


> My Orthoporus ornatus drink from a shallow plate.  I don't use water bowls except for in this enclosure because the substrate is drier and I see them drinking a lot.  I haven't sexed mine but I have a dozen or more so I likely have pairs. I feed them gourds; that's what they like!  How are yours doing @ErinM31 ?


I've seen mine drink as well.  I haven't given them a water dish but mist often and I've seen them drink the droplets from the sides. I have two left -- only one of which is one of the original three I started with (picked up another at a reptile show this past summer) as one never emerged from burrowing (so I guess it _could_ still be alive and well under there) and the one pictured above did not recover from its molting injury.  But the two I have seem to be doing well -- they are beautiful and often active millipedes. 

While it seems likely that you have at least one male, this is one of several species where I have seen FAR more females than males (just my experience?). Mating in captivity has been observed, but there are no records of successful reproduction. We have yet to figure out why...


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## mickiem (Oct 29, 2016)

ErinM31 said:


> I've seen mine drink as well.  I haven't given them a water dish but mist often and I've seen them drink the droplets from the sides. I have two left -- only one of which is one of the original three I started with (picked up another at a reptile show this past summer) as one never emerged from burrowing (so I guess it _could_ still be alive and well under there) and the one pictured above did not recover from its molting injury.  But the two I have seem to be doing well -- they are beautiful and often active millipedes.
> 
> While it seems likely that you have at least one male, this is one of several species where I have seen FAR more females than males (just my experience?). Mating in captivity has been observed, but there are no records of successful reproduction. We have yet to figure out why...


Mine stay pretty active.  Each one that I have been able to sex has been a female.  I forgot to sex them before I put them in their enclosure.  Snap! I don't want to go digging so I will be patient.  My substrate is about 6" and is a mixture of coir, sand, fermented oak and mesquite and a variety of dead leaves.  I have never seen mating behavior.  Do the chocolates and gold interbreed?  It would be nice to unlock their secrets.


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## ErinM31 (Oct 30, 2016)

mickiem said:


> Mine stay pretty active.  Each one that I have been able to sex has been a female.  I forgot to sex them before I put them in their enclosure.  Snap! I don't want to go digging so I will be patient.  My substrate is about 6" and is a mixture of coir, sand, fermented oak and mesquite and a variety of dead leaves.  I have never seen mating behavior.  Do the chocolates and gold interbreed?  It would be nice to unlock their secrets.


Sounds good!  Yes, the different color morphs can interbreed; @Mastigoproctus has found copper morphs that are the result a cross between the gold color and large brown ones from the Percha river valley.


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## TwoJays (Aug 23, 2021)

ErinM31 said:


> So far as we know, no one has successfully had _Orthoporus ornatus_ reproduce in captivity.


Reviving this. Found it on Google 
How is everything?


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## ErinM31 (Aug 23, 2021)

TwoJays said:


> Reviving this. Found it on Google
> How is everything?


It did not go so well for me, alas! Some individuals lived a relatively long time while others died off after burrowing. I think that trying to provide dry spells while keeping the substrate the right moisture level is very difficult within a well-ventilated terrarium. Plus, you then have a visually empty terrarium for months. I would recommend keeping this millipede as others have done successfully (albeit without reproduction), including high ventilation but misting often. I was hoping to stimulate egg-laying but have since realized how much of a long shot that was when we don’t know this millipede’s life cycle in the wild; I’ve even seen it hypothesized that they may have a relationship with a particular species of ant! An unrelated millipede species which I did manage to get offspring required debris from resinous trees native to its habitat!

I hope that answers your question and good luck with your endeavors!


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