# Pine Bark Nuggets



## Alejandro45 (Dec 29, 2009)

I was at Home Depot today and saw Pine Bark Nuggets in the gardening department and they looked rather nice. But I was wondering if there toxic to reptiles??..specifically Recticulated pythons?

and if they are does anyone know a nice looking substrate? 

Alejandro


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## BorisTheSpider (Dec 29, 2009)

You might not want to go with something like that . Who knows what might have gotten on the bark pieces during processing . Maybe solvents or industrial oils to name few . The best bet is to go with a _"cage carpet"_ . They are very easy to keep clean and some what inexpensive . In my experience , large pythons and substrates don't mix very well . Every time they excrete , it would involve me having to change all the substrate just to be sure that the cage was as completely clean . Any left over waste smells terrible and can cause health issues . Just my opinion though .


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## Alejandro45 (Dec 29, 2009)

I cant help it....I get great enjoyment out of making a terrarium for all my animals.. I dont mind having to clean up after them

I just want to find somthing natural looking:?


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## Joe (Dec 29, 2009)

Pine and cedar contain aromatic oils, which can possibly cause respiratory problem. Try finding some cypress mulch instead.


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## P. Novak (Dec 29, 2009)

Why not Aspen Bedding?


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## LeilaNami (Dec 30, 2009)

P. Novak said:


> Why not Aspen Bedding?


Aspen gets disgusting in humid tanks so if you're going dry it's great stuff provided you don't feed in the cage or if you do use a paper plate.  The small slivers of it can get lodged in the jaws.  Cypress mulch is great for the humidity lovers and I use it for my Colombian Rainbow boa.  Be aware that the mulch sold at home depot comes saturated with water so I would dry it out a bit before putting it in a cage with restricted ventilation.


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## Alejandro45 (Dec 30, 2009)

Are you talking about the red mulch? I always thought it was full of harmful pesticides and toxic?

thank you 

Alejandro


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## BorisTheSpider (Dec 30, 2009)

Regardless of what you use , don't but it at the hardware store . The stuff sold by pet shops is a lot more but you can be sure that it is completely pet safe .


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## LeilaNami (Dec 31, 2009)

BorisTheSpider said:


> Regardless of what you use , don't but it at the hardware store . The stuff sold by pet shops is a lot more but you can be sure that it is completely pet safe .


No!  The product sold at hardware stores are perfectly safe provided you buy the right thing!  Specialized reptile products are the exact same thing except a doubled price and prettier package.  And the 'heat sterilized' stuff?  The parasites that inhabit wood are not the parasites that will hitch a ride on your reptile.  Not to mention if you are concerned about them, pop the mulch in the oven for a bit and there's your heat treatment.  Not to mention, the stuff from the pet store is NOT completely safe but that's how they are going to market it because it puts new hobbyists more at ease.

As far as the cypress mulch, it will say cypress on the packaging and if it is pesticide free or not.  Ours is cypress mulch from Home Depot and is pesticide free.  Cypress is a safe wood to use for reptiles and is not toxic.


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## BorisTheSpider (Jan 1, 2010)

LeilaNami said:


> No!  The product sold at hardware stores are perfectly safe provided you buy the right thing!  Specialized reptile products are the exact same thing except a doubled price and prettier package.  And the 'heat sterilized' stuff?  The parasites that inhabit wood are not the parasites that will hitch a ride on your reptile.  Not to mention if you are concerned about them, pop the mulch in the oven for a bit and there's your heat treatment.  Not to mention, the stuff from the pet store is NOT completely safe but that's how they are going to market it because it puts new hobbyists more at ease.
> 
> As far as the cypress mulch, it will say cypress on the packaging and if it is pesticide free or not.  Ours is cypress mulch from Home Depot and is pesticide free.  Cypress is a safe wood to use for reptiles and is not toxic.


When did I say anything about pesticides or parasites ? My post was about oils and solvents that can find their way into the manufacturing process . I worked for a company that made barks and mulches for both landscaping and for the pet trade . The pet supply people always required us to clean and sterilize the grinding machines before running their orders . The landscape supply companies never cared . They would have add all kinds of dyes and preservatives that I don't think that they mentioned on the labels .   

Also , if you are going to recommend that someone _"buys the right thing"_ then you need to give exact brand names and product names . Don't just leave it up in the air like that .


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## LeilaNami (Jan 1, 2010)

BorisTheSpider said:


> When did I say anything about pesticides or parasites ? My post was about oils and solvents that can find their way into the manufacturing process . I worked for a company that made barks and mulches for both landscaping and for the pet trade . The pet supply people always required us to clean and sterilize the grinding machines before running their orders . The landscape supply companies never cared . They would have add all kinds of dyes and preservatives that I don't think that they mentioned on the labels .
> 
> Also , if you are going to recommend that someone _"buys the right thing"_ then you need to give exact brand names and product names . Don't just leave it up in the air like that .


Ah I see.  

Also, I didn't recommend anything because I don't have the mulch on hand and that was more in response to your claim rather than his/her question.

EDIT:  You have good information however can you say that the dyes and solvents that come in contact with the mulch are at high enough concentration to actually cause damage to an animal?  I will be asking my mentor about this as soon as he gets back from SA.  He said it was safe and uses it for his own animals and this man isn't some average Joe with a ball python so I trust his judgment.


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## BorisTheSpider (Jan 2, 2010)

LeilaNami said:


> Ah I see.
> 
> Also, I didn't recommend anything because I don't have the mulch on hand and that was more in response to your claim rather than his/her question.
> 
> EDIT:  You have good information however can you say that the dyes and solvents that come in contact with the mulch are at high enough concentration to actually cause damage to an animal?  I will be asking my mentor about this as soon as he gets back from SA.  He said it was safe and When someone tells me about a pet suddenly dying , I usually ask about it's enclosure as much as I ask about it'suses it for his own animals and this man isn't some average Joe with a ball python so I trust his judgment.


After three decades of keeping reptiles and arachnids I have developed a policy that has always served me well . . .  *don't take chances* . As far as chemical concentrations go I can't give you some kind of iron clad guarantee one way or the other . Personally I leave garden supplies in the garden and pet supplies with my pets . If your mentor says otherwise then I suggests that you follow his/her advice .


EDIT : After giving this topic a little more thought I do remember that we made at least one type of mulch that was labeled  "for pet bedding" . I'm pretty sure that this meant dog bedding , but if it is safe for dogs then it can reasonable be assumed that it would also be safe for other animals . I still think that cage carpets are the best way to go ( they make keeping an enclosure clean much easier ) , but if one where going for a natural terrarium type enclosure  then I think the best thing to do is just contact the mulch's manufacturer . They will tell you if there product poses any possible health threats . I just don't want to see someone make a hasty judgment that could endanger the life of their pets .


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## LeilaNami (Jan 2, 2010)

BorisTheSpider said:


> After three decades of keeping reptiles and arachnids I have developed a policy that has always served me well . . .  *don't take chances* . As far as chemical concentrations go I can't give you some kind of iron clad guarantee one way or the other . Personally I leave garden supplies in the garden and pet supplies with my pets . If your mentor says otherwise then I suggests that you follow his/her advice .
> 
> 
> EDIT : After giving this topic a little more thought I do remember that we made at least one type of mulch that was labeled  "for pet bedding" . I'm pretty sure that this meant dog bedding , but if it is safe for dogs then it can reasonable be assumed that it would also be safe for other animals . I still think that cage carpets are the best way to go ( they make keeping an enclosure clean much easier ) , but if one where going for a natural terrarium type enclosure  then I think the best thing to do is just contact the mulch's manufacturer . They will tell you if there product poses any possible health threats . I just don't want to see someone make a hasty judgment that could endanger the life of their pets .


You are very correct on making hasty judgments.  Unfortunately many pet supply vendors bank on that fact because new people are too scared to use something not labeled specifically for pets no matter how safe it is or too lazy to check when they could (and often times are) charged at least double for the same product only more aesthetically pleasing.


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## Matt K (Jan 3, 2010)

Cypress mulch from the Home Depot or Lowe's is safe for everything.  I have been using it on insects, arachnids and reptiles for 20+ years without any problems.  Its only a few dollars for a giant bag....


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## Shrike (Jan 3, 2010)

I've used both cypress  mulch and aspen bedding for years without any problems.  I don't know what your humidity needs are but cypress mulch will hold more moisture.


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