# OBT Sling growth rate.



## Methal (Aug 31, 2015)

Info:
- I purchased an OBT sling (3rd instar) Oct 10th 2014. (almost a year ago now) 

Since then, on a feeding schedule of a food item roughly the same size as the spiderling every 10 days, kept at 75-80F in a small critter keeper roughly the size of my Galaxy Note 3. with a height of a red solo cup. (9 1/8"L x 6"W x 6 5/8"H)

It has double in size since I purchased it, (1.5inches today) Having molted 3 times since I got it.  

I'm wondering if this is standard growth rate for this species? Should I increase the feeding frequency?

I've seen feeding videos of OBTs on youtube where the recorder claims their OBTs are 1 year old, and have reached a size of 3 inches. 

as well as this: 
"Growth Rate: The growth rate of this specie is fast. I purchased this tarantula as a spiderling of 1/2" in size. After the first year she had grown to three inch (3")" 

From: http://www.mikebasictarantula.com/Pter-murinus-care-sheet.html

While I'm not trying to "power level" this little thing, I'd like to make sure that I am not starving it either.


Side note: I have a M Balfouri, same age, feeding and conditions, who is the same size as the OBT after the same length of time in my care. They molt within 1 to 10 days of each other consistently. (last 3 molts anyway) 

Thoughts?


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## Poec54 (Aug 31, 2015)

OBT males typically mature in a year, give or take a month or two, in the same ball park as Ceratogyrus.  1 1/2" at a year is very slow.  Feed it more often.  I don't understand the bizarre fear of 'power feeding', a term that is grossly misused in this hobby.  To grow at a reasonable pace, slings/juveniles of most species should eat a good-sized meal 2 or 3 times a week.  That's NOT power feeding.  Power feeding is food offered almost 24/7, which just about never happens.

Reactions: Like 6


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## cold blood (Aug 31, 2015)

Slings, especially fast growing species, should be fed twice a week, which is my sling feeding schedule.  Your concentration camp feeding schedule probably has everything to do with your slow growth rates....I've had Brachy's grow faster than your OBT....my OBT's went from about 1.5"-4+" in 7 months.   They grow like weeds if fed well.   An obt sling kept at that temp consistently should be molting every 30-45 days.   While you are feeding yours 4 meals monthly, I would be feeding 10 meals in the same time period...that's gonna equate to a significant difference in growth rates.

BTW, power feeding is having food available 24/7....virtually no one actually power feeds....the paranoia of "power feeding" is completely baffling to me, especially with young t's with high metabolisms....you simple CANNOT over-feed a growing t.

---------- Post added 08-31-2015 at 03:29 PM ----------

Ha Rick, you posted basically the same thing, at the same time I was typing!!:smile:

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1


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## Methal (Sep 1, 2015)

Thank you very much for your reply. I will increase my feeding rate =)


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## EulersK (Sep 1, 2015)

Spiders are generally pretty durable - especially your OBT. As cold blood said, just feed more.

Further expanding on what cold blood said, you would have to intentionally power feed in order to actually power feed. During the sling stage (essentially when the abdomen is massive compared to the carapace), I live by the phrase "a happy T is one with food in its mouth" until it enters the juvenile stage. That involves feeding just about every day, so long as they accept and are not in premolt. I do this because I want them out of the sling stage ASAP, as they're (a) too fragile for my liking, and (b) just plain boring in my opinion. Then I roughly feed once per week, unless it's a fast growing species like an OBT, in which case I go twice or more per week. Just learn to read the abdomen, that will tell you when to feed.


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## Poec54 (Sep 1, 2015)

EulersK said:


> Just learn to read the abdomen, that will tell you when to feed.



And when they're out at night, looking for prey.

Reactions: Like 1 | Thanks 1


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## Methal (Sep 1, 2015)

I'm thinking I may need to look into a more durable prey item. I really do not like needing to run to the pet store to pick up crickets so often. And they rarely live longer than a couple days. 

I'm about 100% sure if i started a Cockroach colony my wife would kill me.


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## EulersK (Sep 1, 2015)

Get mealworms that you can keep in the fridge - those things last forever. I don't like them because you _have to_ crush the heads before feeding, and that's a hassle, but it would solve your problem.


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## Tim Benzedrine (Sep 1, 2015)

I started raising my own crickets because going to the store to get them can be a pain and sometimes impossible for me. I know that some folks dislike keeping them intensely, but I find that a small-scale operation lacks most of the factors people complain about. By "small-scale, I mean a yield of about 200 crickets. Way overkill for me even in that amount, but just a few females produce a lot of eggs so I think it is impossible to produce them in numbers that would be entirely utilized for my small collection which is only comprised of juveniles at this point and time. I've only been raising the crickets since last May, so I can't really attest to the practicality of this method, but come bad winter weather, they will at least hopefully be a safety net along with the mealworms I also raise.

Here is the end result from 2 or three females...a rough count indicated around 274. I am currently rearing my second generation.


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## Poec54 (Sep 1, 2015)

Methal said:


> I'm thinking I may need to look into a more durable prey item. I really do not like needing to run to the pet store to pick up crickets so often. And they rarely live longer than a couple days.



Then you're not keeping them right.  They need to be DRY.  I keep my crickets in large clear storage boxes, with only a few sheets of paper towel on the bottom, no substrate, and no water bowl.  The top is screen, good ventilation is needed.  They get a few egg crates to hide in.  I feed them romaine lettuce, potato, and carrots, in moderation; they easily die from consuming too much moisture.  They can't live in a moist, humid cage, or have too much moisture in their foods.  That'll kill them almost as fast as a pesticide.  Since I go thru 4,000 to 5,000 adult crickets a month, while I'm holding them I also feed them dry Purina earthworm chow (comes in big bags from farm supply stores).  There's a big reptile dealer near me and they've been producing large a volume of crickets for 20 years this way.

---------- Post added 09-01-2015 at 03:47 PM ----------




Tim Benzedrine said:


> Here is the end result from 2 or three females...a rough count indicated around 274. I am currently rearing my second generation.



You counted your baby crickets?  You really need more to do around the house.

Reactions: Like 5 | Funny 1


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## cold blood (Sep 1, 2015)

+1 poec, that was my first thought.   I have no problems keeping crickets alive for as long as I need.


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## Poec54 (Sep 1, 2015)

cold blood said:


> +1 poec, that was my first thought.   I have no problems keeping crickets alive for as long as I need.



I think that biggest mistake people make is putting them on moist substrate and giving them a waterbowl.  The local reptile dealer here uses big plastic tubs with egg crates on end, and just lays romaine on top of them.  The cricket buildings are kept warm and dry all year.


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## Tim Benzedrine (Sep 1, 2015)

Poec54 said:


> Then you're not keeping them right.  They need to be DRY.  I keep my crickets in large clear storage boxes, with only a few sheets of paper towel on the bottom, no substrate, and no water bowl.  The top is screen, good ventilation is needed.  They get a few egg crates to hide in.  I feed them romaine lettuce, potato, and carrots, in moderation; they easily die from consuming too much moisture.  They can't live in a moist, humid cage, or have too much moisture in their foods.  That'll kill them almost as fast as a pesticide.  Since I go thru 4,000 to 5,000 adult crickets a month, while I'm holding them I also feed them dry Purina earthworm chow (comes in big bags from farm supply stores).  There's a big reptile dealer near me and they've been producing large a volume of crickets for 20 years this way.
> 
> ---------- Post added 09-01-2015 at 03:47 PM ----------
> 
> ...


 You may be right. That was an entire ten minutes I'll never get back. I should have spent the time on posting condescending comments!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sam_Peanuts (Sep 2, 2015)

I got 20 of them(to make extra sure I get at least a male with my terrible luck with finding them) a month after you and they're in the 2-2.5" range and I feed them a prey a tad bigger than their abdomen roughly once a week(sometimes more, sometimes less).

There was a lot more debate back in the day about feeding them a lot vs more reasonably than there is now, but I like to not feed them too much for a few reasons.

-If they're not full all the time, they're out a lot more for your enjoyment.

-A breeder told me he noticed that males other people raised much faster than his were generally less successful at producing a sac than the ones he raised himself at a slower pace. I'm not saying feeding them a lot is confirmed to be bad since apparently lots of people do it without noticing ill effects, but I prefer to have them grow a bit slower myself, just in case.

-I've never heard an argument about slower growth being bad except that they may not grow up as big in the end.


As for crickets, I had the same problem until I asked the pet shop when they were receiving them and I now buy them exclusively on that day and I now have very minimal loss.
I put them on a big 60l plastic tub with a big screen vent on top and am currently experimenting with substrate and a small portion of it being wet for drinking and egg laying which seem to work pretty well so far and I think it reduced the smell a bit.


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## Prle (Sep 2, 2015)

Also, excellent food for crickets are rabbit pellets. They are mainly made out of dried plants that both of them consume in nature, plus some extra vitamins and minerals.

I heard some people feed them with cat pellets too, time after time, to prevent cannibalism.


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## Poec54 (Sep 2, 2015)

Prle said:


> food for crickets...I heard some people feed them with cat pellets too, time after time, to prevent cannibalism.



A downside to dry cat and dog food is that they contain grease and artificial ingredients.  Whatever the cricket eats winds up in the spiders.


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## Tim Benzedrine (Sep 3, 2015)

Yeah, that sort of squicks me out too. I give mine some crushed dog food, but I'm not crazy about doing it. Trace amounts of chemicals might not be too bad for larger vertebrates like dogs, but who knows the effects on smaller inverts? What else could be offered that is higher in protein but is more natural and is at least marginally convenient? Assuming that a lack of protein-rich food promotes cannibalism, of course.

On the flip side, I suppose it could be argued that the diet doesn't seem to kill the crickets. I dunno. They have a much shorter lifespan, so that might not make the comparison quantifiable.


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## Poec54 (Sep 3, 2015)

Tim Benzedrine said:


> I suppose it could be argued that the diet doesn't seem to kill the crickets.



Can't go by that.  Predators consume many other animals, and get a much greater build up of some things.  How many crickets does a captive tarantula eat over it's lifetime?


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## Methal (Sep 3, 2015)

I'll have to re-visit my cricket breeding attempts. Though the 30 or so mediums I got from the pet store 2 days ago, half of them are dead now. the other half I fed to my spiderlings.


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## cold blood (Sep 3, 2015)

Start be managing to keep them alive, only after you can successfully keep them alive will you be able to breed them.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Methal (Sep 3, 2015)

This is a serious thing for me, I'd rather not have to stop at the pet store 3 times a week, and while I dont have the dozens of Ts some of you guys have, i'd rather not be dropping 200 bucks a month on feeding supplies. 

Cockroaches seem to be so much easier to keep than crickets. 

But they are cockroaches, and i've heard they stink something bad!


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## Prle (Sep 3, 2015)

Believe me, crickets smell much worse than cockroaches.

I didn't bought crickets yet, but I had visited one colleague that raise them too along cockroaches and smell was awful despite their enclosure was cleaned only a week or so before, unlike other one with cockroaches which wasn't cleaned at least for three weeks and was almost odorless (or my sense of vary vary bad).


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## KristinaMG (Sep 3, 2015)

Poec54 said:


> Then you're not keeping them right.  They need to be DRY.  I keep my crickets in large clear storage boxes, with only a few sheets of paper towel on the bottom, no substrate, and no water bowl.  The top is screen, good ventilation is needed.  They get a few egg crates to hide in.  I feed them romaine lettuce, potato, and carrots, in moderation; they easily die from consuming too much moisture.  They can't live in a moist, humid cage, or have too much moisture in their foods.  That'll kill them almost as fast as a pesticide.  Since I go thru 4,000 to 5,000 adult crickets a month, while I'm holding them I also feed them dry Purina earthworm chow (comes in big bags from farm supply stores).  There's a big reptile dealer near me and they've been producing large a volume of crickets for 20 years this way.
> 
> ---------- Post added 09-01-2015 at 03:47 PM ----------
> 
> ...


Holy crap, 4000-5000 per month?  I'm assuming those are not all being fed to Ts, some other creatures too?  How many reptiles/arachnids do you have?


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## vespers (Sep 3, 2015)

KristinaMG said:


> Holy crap, 4000-5000 per month?  I'm assuming those are not all being fed to Ts, some other creatures too?  How many reptiles/arachnids do you have?


Apparently you haven't seen pictures of his tarantula room/collection. :laugh:

Reactions: Like 1


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## Poec54 (Sep 3, 2015)

KristinaMG said:


> Holy crap, 4000-5000 per month?  I'm assuming those are not all being fed to Ts, some other creatures too?  How many reptiles/arachnids do you have?



Those are all for tarantulas, and doesn't include baby crickets for slings.


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## KristinaMG (Sep 3, 2015)

Poec54 said:


> Those are all for tarantulas, and doesn't include baby crickets for slings.


WOW.  I'm going to have to see these pics pp mentioned.  That's...wow.  You are like a true mama spider, mother to thousands...(i realize you are prob male but the metaphor doesn't work well that way).  I want to know if you manage to name them all and "know" them individually and how it's possible to keep them all alive without it being a full time job but you probably get that all the time and are tired of answering.


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## dementedlullaby (Sep 3, 2015)

Tim Benzedrine said:


> Yeah, that sort of squicks me out too. I give mine some crushed dog food, but I'm not crazy about doing it. Trace amounts of chemicals might not be too bad for larger vertebrates like dogs, but who knows the effects on smaller inverts? What else could be offered that is higher in protein but is more natural and is at least marginally convenient? Assuming that a lack of protein-rich food promotes cannibalism, of course.
> 
> On the flip side, I suppose it could be argued that the diet doesn't seem to kill the crickets. I dunno. They have a much shorter lifespan, so that might not make the comparison quantifiable.


May I suggest giving them fish food instead? I rear my baby crickets on fish food and carrots. Always works for me. The ingredients in flake seem to match up better with invert diets than dog food does imo.

For the sub/adults I don't even bother giving them fish food. They seem to do fine with a potato and whatever veggie that won't rot too fast. 

I bought 1000 pinheads (toads munch 'em up) a few weeks ago as I haven't had a batch of new babies until last night. The guy was freaking out when I didn't want to buy the special cricket food. Pretty sure he thought they wouldn't last a day. Meanwhile...Three weeks later....They aren't pinheads anymore . 1/4" last I checked.


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## cold blood (Sep 3, 2015)

KristinaMG said:


> I want to know if you manage to name them all and "know" them individually and how it's possible to keep them all alive without it being a full time job but you probably get that all the time and are tired of answering.


I'm sure he names his like I do.   For example, P. regalis #1, P. regalis #2, P. regalis #3...and so on and so forth.

I honestly don't know how you're spending $200 a month on feeders, I have close to 100 t's and I spend like $30 a month on feeders and don't raise a single feeder myself.

---------- Post added 09-03-2015 at 05:42 PM ----------




dementedlullaby said:


> I bought 1000 pinheads (toads munch 'em up) a few weeks ago as I haven't had a batch of new babies until last night. The guy was freaking out when I didn't want to buy the special cricket food. Pretty sure he thought they wouldn't last a day. Meanwhile...Three weeks later....They aren't pinheads anymore . 1/4" last I checked.


Lol, that's funny how the LPS believes crickets need special cricket food to survive.....who's dumping that stuff in the wild for them to keep them alive??    The things you can feed crickets could fill several pages, as long as the food doesn't contain too much moisture its all good....mine get carrot, potato, lettuce and a piece of dog kibble....if I had a cat or fish that ate fish flakes/pellets, I'd use those, too.


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## KristinaMG (Sep 3, 2015)

cold blood said:


> I'm sure he names his like I do.   For example, P. regalis #1, P. regalis #2, P. regalis #3...and so on and so forth.
> 
> I honestly don't know how you're spending $200 a month on feeders, I have close to 100 t's and I spend like $30 a month on feeders and don't raise a single feeder myself.


Maybe that was a different poster? I never said that I spend $200 on feeders- it's $4-$6/week for me..I only have 13 and most are slings.


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## cold blood (Sep 3, 2015)

Methal said:


> while I dont have the dozens of Ts some of you guys have, i'd rather not be dropping 200 bucks a month on feeding supplies.


No you didn't Kristina, as a result, I wasn't directing that toward you, but rather Methal, who DID in fact say that.   As my words were beneath your quote though, I can see how I was unclear.   Only the first sentence was directed toward your quote

Reactions: Like 1


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## Poec54 (Sep 3, 2015)

cold blood said:


> - I'm sure he names his like I do.   For example, P. regalis #1, P. regalis #2, P. regalis #3...and so on and so forth.
> 
> - I honestly don't know how you're spending $200 a month on feeders, I have close to 100 t's and I spend like $30 a month on feeders and don't raise a single feeder myself.



- Correct on the names.  I'm not into cutesy names.

- I'm spending $70-$100/month on crickets in the summer, less in the winter.  Much cheaper in bulk.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ivike22 (Mar 16, 2022)

con


cold blood said:


> Slings, especially fast growing species, should be fed twice a week, which is my sling feeding schedule.  Your concentration camp feeding schedule probably has everything to do with your slow growth rates....I've had Brachy's grow faster than your OBT....my OBT's went from about 1.5"-4+" in 7 months.   They grow like weeds if fed well.   An obt sling kept at that temp consistently should be molting every 30-45 days.   While you are feeding yours 4 meals monthly, I would be feeding 10 meals in the same time period...that's gonna equate to a significant difference in growth rates.
> 
> BTW, power feeding is having food available 24/7....virtually no one actually power feeds....the paranoia of "power feeding" is completely baffling to me, especially with young t's with high metabolisms....you simple CANNOT over-feed a growing t.
> 
> ...


concentration camp feeding


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