# my clawed frog is taking over my aquarium =/



## xBurntBytheSunx (Aug 24, 2010)

all my tetras are slowly disappearing....and my frog is getting fatter and fatter...

is this normal? i thought they were supposed to be "community" friendly?


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## BQC123 (Aug 24, 2010)

Frogs will consume anything they can fit into their mouths. They are usually fine with larger, peaceful fish, that are too big to eat.


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## DemonAsh (Aug 24, 2010)

BQC123 said:


> Frogs will consume anything they can fit into their mouths. They are usually fine with larger, peaceful fish, that are too big to eat.


+1     hymenochirus curtipes is the only species I've dealt with that stays small enough to really function well in a small-medium range community tank. What kind of tetras do you have?


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## pouchedrat (Aug 24, 2010)

If that's an african clawed frog, that thing will eat (and choke on) goldfish!  They're gluttonous things.. but they live like 15+ years in pretty much any environment, lol.  

They're great frogs, but yeah, keep them away from fish.  I had one grab a fish FAR larger than herself, and bit it in half.


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## sean-820 (Aug 24, 2010)

BQC123 said:


> Frogs will consume anything they can fit into their mouths. They are usually fine with larger, peaceful fish, that are too big to eat.


Agreed. They can be kept in a community tank with larger fish that they can't fit in their mouths.  For a medium sized frog a tetra is a meal.

Get fish it clearly can't fit in its mouth because if it thinks it can eat somethign it will try to.


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## xBurntBytheSunx (Aug 25, 2010)

well...i had 6 beautiful orange von rio tetras...  now i have two.

i guess about the only thing i can do is take them back to the pet store and get something big to hang out with my black moor goldfish.

i love the goldfish but 1 goldfish makes more poop than a whole aquarium of tetras etc =/


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## pharaoh2653 (Aug 25, 2010)

Goldfish and tropical fish shouldn't be in the same tank


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## xBurntBytheSunx (Aug 25, 2010)

how come? :O


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## malevolentrobot (Aug 25, 2010)

xBurntBytheSunx said:


> how come? :O


from my knowlege tropicals need far more heat (80's) where as a goldfish will actually decline over time in a tank over 75 degrees. the golds, they prefer colder water than trops like tetras. also with the more ornamental egg shaped bodied golds that swim slower, they will be out competed by their faster swimming tankmates for food. i have even seen common golds and comets stress out moors and orandas just on that basis alone.

feel free to correct if i am wrong, but that is what i remember from my fish keeping days.


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## ZephAmp (Aug 25, 2010)

malevolentrobot said:


> from my knowlege tropicals need far more heat (80's) where as a goldfish will actually decline over time in a tank over 75 degrees. the golds, they prefer colder water than trops like tetras. also with the more ornamental egg shaped bodied golds that swim slower, they will be out competed by their faster swimming tankmates for food. i have even seen common golds and comets stress out moors and orandas just on that basis alone.
> 
> feel free to correct if i am wrong, but that is what i remember from my fish keeping days.


There is also a chance of disease spreading between coldwater and freshwater fishes, seeing as their bodies carry different types of bacteria, etc.


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## DemonAsh (Aug 25, 2010)

Agree with Zeph and M-robot. While it is _possible_ to keep these fish together, the problems that could arise make it not worth it.  I found a "batman" goldfish in a petstore. (The pattern on the side looked like the Batman symbol.)  I had to have it and mixed it with my myriad of rainbows, plecos etc.. I kept the tank at 72 degrees, and did frequent water changes to avoid any ph problems and the fish survived just fine at first. One day I noticed the goldfish covered with ick, just the goldfish mind you. I got him into a quarantine tank, but it was too late. A week later my whole tank was destroyed. hunderds of dollars worth of fish gone.  Only the goldfish and an L29 pleco made it. It's not proof positive it was the goldfishes fault, but the way it went down, I'm almost certain he was the culprit, so to speak.


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## Toirtis (Aug 25, 2010)

malevolentrobot said:


> from my knowlege tropicals need far more heat (80's) where as a goldfish will actually decline over time in a tank over 75 degrees. the golds, they prefer colder water than trops like tetras.


Correct...goldfish do best at lower temperatures (like 58F-70F), whereas most tetra species thrive at 76F-84F. The problems come that the metabolisms of these fish function ideally within the appropriate temperature ranges...keeping both types of fish together, you must keep them at ideal temperature for one type, but far too warm or cold for the other, or at a middle temperature that is poor for both types.

As for the clawed frog...if it is indeed a _Xenopus_ sp., it will likely max-out at about the size of your hand...and swallow anything it can cram in its mouth.  Dwarf frogs, like _Hymenochirus_ sp. are safe with anything that is 2/3 their size, and since they stay relatively small (around 3cm), all but the smallest fish are quite safe.


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## JC (Aug 26, 2010)

lol. If I wanted to find a easy way of eliminating community fish 'naturally' without killing them myself, I'd employ some African clawed frogs. So place the frogs somewhere else.

Goldfish and tropical fish have different needs. Goldfish need cool water, open spaces, and lots of filtration and high-oxygen water. If you grow a goldfish to full-size, you will probably need to get a pond for it. Because they get big, so they might get big enough to eat your community.


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## xBurntBytheSunx (Aug 26, 2010)

well the way it's looking is that i'm going to just have to get rid of the tetras, as the tank tank is 20 gallon and looks big enough just for the frog and the goldfish


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## pouchedrat (Aug 26, 2010)

a single goldfish is good in a 29 gallon tank usually, when full grown.  

But I'll still say I had an adult female albino clawed frog bite a goldfish in half, once..  whatever can get in their mouth, will.  gravel, food, fish, snails, your finger, anything


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## JC (Aug 26, 2010)

pouchedrat said:


> But I'll still say I had an adult female albino clawed frog bite a goldfish in half, once..  whatever can get in their mouth, will.  gravel, food, fish, snails, your finger, anything


I just remember reading about a ACF mortally wounding a goldfish with its back claws during some sort of struggle. 

OP if I were you, I'd keep the frogs.


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## Jaymz Bedell (Aug 26, 2010)

as stated already, 29 gallons is a good START for a single adult goldfish. 20 gallons of water, minus decor for 2 very dirty animals is pushing it. even with a very good filter. 

goldfish produce massive amounts of waste. not to mention they're messy eaters, which contributes to the amount of waste in a tank. it's the same deal for Xenopus. heavy filtration helps, as do frequent large water changes. but they're not the solution. a larger volume of water is. dilution is the solution to pollution, or so the saying goes. larger volumes of water help to prevent sudden shifts in temperature, as well as providing more of a buffer when it comes to waste. a larger volume of water, a very efficient filter rated for a large tank, and frequent large water changes are what it takes to keep either goldfish OR african clawed frogs. a 20 gallon tank would be large enough for the clawed frog, but severely pushing it, at best, for a single adult goldfish.

I've had similar experiences as Pouched with clawed frogs. Over the years I've watched them take down goldfish as large as themselves. I've seen them clear a tank of smaller fish in a matter of hours. I've actually seen a large african clawed frog make a quick meal of a hatchling red earred slider. poor turtle.


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## malevolentrobot (Aug 26, 2010)

xBurntBytheSunx said:


> well the way it's looking is that i'm going to just have to get rid of the tetras, as the tank tank is 20 gallon and looks big enough just for the frog and the goldfish


i'd do quite the reverse, imo. the tetras are size suitable for your tank, you could have a fair amount of them in there without going over the tanks bioload, whereas your goldfish are going to keep the water quality really crummy. golds are messy, poopy, overeaters that normally can get to 8", especially if you are buying the feeders at stores. even five will turn a 20gal to horrible conditions, or worse depending on the quality of your filter as well. normally i double/triple mine so a 20gal would have a 30-55gal filter powering it.

depending on your tets, i doubt you are keeping anything that gets max size over 2 1/2", they would be the better bet since your tank is only 20gals.


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## xBurntBytheSunx (Aug 27, 2010)

well i only have one gold fish.  i'm using an undergravel filter + rear mounted so the water quality is not terrible, but way worse than when i just had tetras


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## Toirtis (Aug 27, 2010)

xBurntBytheSunx said:


> well i only have one gold fish.  i'm using an undergravel filter + rear mounted so the water quality is not terrible, but way worse than when i just had tetras


What power filter brand and model are you using? I overfilter by 100% when it comes to a tetra-type tank...with goldies and clawed frogs, I would be aiming for 300%+.


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## LeilaNami (Aug 29, 2010)

Goldfish are nasty fish .  As everyone has mentioned, they get very large and create a lot of waste.  They also have a different diet than tropical fish.  I would honestly take the goldfish back if you can.  They prefer to be in schools or have at least another one.  You would have to get a bigger tank to do this.  

You also stated you have a black moor.  That frog is going to pop his big eyes.  The protruding eyes are very sensitive to infection and injury and having a predator in there is just asking for it.  At the very least, get a different goldfish like a ryukin or oranda.  Just something without those eyes.  

I would consider getting some medium-sized, fast, semi-aggressive fish.  I've talked to some people that have successfully kept giant danios with ACFs.  Don't be surprised with any casualties, though.  It would be best to just keep the frog by himself though.


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