# Problem with small enclosures



## Roy1982 (Jun 7, 2016)

I know I'm going to sound like a little b**** here, but I'm going to say it anyways.

If you have anything smart or educational to tell me, please feel free to do so.

1. People should have to show proof of their enclosure before buying a T.
2. The enclosure should be large, without clutter. If you're going to decorate, the enclosure should be big enough to allow trees, rocks, etc. While still allowing the T to walk about freely and comfortably.

Seriously, in the past several days researching, I've seen so many children and adults unboxing T's and putting them in tupperware cups, deli cups. Not to mention Scorpions, and Lizards.

It's unacceptable. Anyone can go and buy these creatures, and do whatever they want with them. There's no paperwork, no permit, or anything.

Yes, I love the fact that there's no paperwork, or permit requirements.

If you don't have the money to either build or buy a decent enclosure, you should NOT own a Tarantula, Scorpion, or small creature.

They're just stupid spiders and scorpions !!!!

They are exoctic living creatures.
They had a much better home before they came to you.
...and I'm not talking about the pet store.

I'm talking about the Rainforest, the desert, etc.

But Acrylic, Polycarbonate, etc. etc. etc. is so expensive, that's why we use Deli cups and small tuperware. It's cheap, it's affordable, and it gives them a place to stay for the rest of their lives.


Here we go..
Grade A, 4' x 8' x 0.5", Maple Plywood isn't expensive. It's $50 a sheet, and you can make a very nice & very large enclosure with it. of you choose to use the whole thing for a single enclosure.

It's the best type of plywood money can buy. As far as I know.

Maple has tight pores, and a very tight grain, it will not leak or rot if built properly. To further proof it, I'd probably line it with a non toxic epoxy coating, or something like that.

Just an idea. This box uses the whole 4' x 8' board. and a part of a $16 piece of very strong 1/6" x 24" x 48" piece of Polycarbonate (LEXAN) from ePlastics.com Been in buisness for 100+ years. The whole piece of polycarbonate isn't used, it's cut to size for the front viewing window. Sure beats a deli cup any day of the week.

Lexan and Polycarbonate are the same thing. Google it.

Polycarbonate makes Acrylic look like crap. It's 200 times stronger, and just as clear. It's also cheaper, softer, and easier to cut than Acrylic.

Can be used for Lizards, Desert Scorpions, and Tarantulas, Praying Mantis, etc.

http://imgur.com/a/z2G7P

Anyone else feel the same way?
Anyone like my design?

More expensive would be replacing the pieces of wood for Polycarbonate (LEXAN), or Acrylic. Could make one out of concrete too, that too would be even cheaper than Acrylic.

Locks can be added to the front sides for added security and tamper proofing against idiots, pets, and naughty children.

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1 | Disagree 5


----------



## cold blood (Jun 7, 2016)

plywood enclosure OMG, you're killin' me.  It did look nice.

The vast majority of ts in the hobby are actually captive born and bred....its the backbone of the hobby.  So, most of these ts didn't come from the rainforest, but rather another hobbyist's t room.

alert

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 4 | Funny 8 | Love 1


----------



## magicmed (Jun 7, 2016)

I'm guessing breeders would have a problem buying hundreds on enclosures

Reactions: Agree 4


----------



## Roy1982 (Jun 7, 2016)

cold blood said:


> plywood enclosure OMG, you're killin' me.  It did look nice.
> 
> The vast majority of ts in the hobby are actually captive born and bred....its the backbone of the hobby.  So, most of these ts didn't come from the rainforest, but rather another hobbyist's t room.
> 
> alert


I'm sorry, but regardless of if they were bread in captivity, they don't deserve to be in such small enclosures. I'm a grown man, 33 years old, and it kinda hurts to see these scary, beutiful creatures put and kept in small containers, and enclosures. It really does. I'm really tough, but I have a conscious, and a heart, and it does hurt to see people putting and or keeping them in small containers. Thanks for the complement. The idea came from Lizard enclosures. It can be very small enclosure, or extremely large enclosure with this idea. With the price so high for Acrylic and clear plastics, it was very difficult to pay 100's of $$$$ for a 100% clear plastic enclosure, and I've checked ePlastics, McMaster-Carr, and other places online, and even my local Lowe's home improvement store, and the material is very expensive, even for those that actually have money to burn, which I do.


----------



## Blackout14 (Jun 7, 2016)

Roy1982 said:


> I know I'm going to sound like a little b**** here, but I'm going to say it anyways.
> 
> If you have anything smart or educational to tell me, please feel free to do so.
> 
> ...


While I greatly admire your respect for animals as we all have here and yes certain things make me angry as well when I see uninformed giving bad advice.  But a lot of your points are incorrect.  Tarantulas do not need nor want a lot of space for the most part.  the reason most people use deli cups especially for slings is because it makes the spiders feel secure. Same as cluttering up an enclosure gives them lots of places to web up and hide.  I'm somewere in between a lot of my spiders I plan to put into 5 gallons as they get bigger but if you put a lot into to big of a cage with little to know stuff in their it will really stress them out as well as cause some to stop eating.  Most of my slings are in vials still and they use the entire vial as their burrow and feed well and grow well. Like I said I can appreciate your concern and love for the animals but no need to go attacking people saying people dont have jobs becuase of what they keep them in.  A 32 ounce deli cup has been a standard for a long while and most likely always will be because they are cheap as well as work extremely well for most.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 11


----------



## Roy1982 (Jun 8, 2016)

Blackout14 said:


> While I greatly admire your respect for animals as we all have here and yes certain things make me angry as well when I see uninformed giving bad advice.  But a lot of your points are incorrect.  Tarantulas do not need nor want a lot of space for the most part.  the reason most people use deli cups especially for slings is because it makes the spiders feel secure. Same as cluttering up an enclosure gives them lots of places to web up and hide.  I'm somewhere in between a lot of my spiders I plan to put into 5 gallons as they get bigger but if you put a lot into to big of a cage with little to know stuff in there it will really stress them out as well as cause some to stop eating.  Most of my slings are in vials still and they use the entire vial as their burrow and feed well and grow well. Like I said I can appreciate your concern and love for the animals but no need to go attacking people saying people don't have jobs because of what they keep them in.  A 32 ounce deli cup has been a standard for a long while and most likely always will be because they are cheap as well as work extremely well for most.



Your right.. Maybe I'm wrong. I just want the best for my first Tarantula, Scorpion, Praying Mantis, or whatever I choose to get first. Maybe I have some serious regret and pain from my very first Tarantula. I ended up getting rid of it, because my mom hated and was afraid of ALL animals. Seriously.

That was a long time ago. I'm all grown up now, and have a full time job. 

I'm not too familiar with how they are supposed to be kept. Regardless if they were breed in captivity, I was mainly looking at where they normally come from. Certainly not a deli cup. So I guess starting tonight, I'm going to study a little harder, and get some more information on what you've told me. Regardless if they do like Deli cups or not, I'm not going to keep mine in a cup. If I find that the size of the container doesn't need to be that large, then I'll build a smaller enclosure, around the size of the deli cup. The enclosure will be the same idea as the images I've shared, but on a small scale.

Thanks so much for everyone's support and replies so far.

Reactions: Like 4 | Dislike 1


----------



## Roy1982 (Jun 8, 2016)

magicmed said:


> I'm guessing breeders would have a problem buying hundreds on enclosures


I'm sorry, I don't understand your reply. Could you explain please?


----------



## magicmed (Jun 8, 2016)

I see it kind of like snake racks, I don't like them at all but I realize the need and benefits of them. Cloudy walls and cramped spaces seem to make snakes happy, maybe it's the same with T. And breeders would have a crazy time providing nice display cases to all their breeders and babies. It's just a common trick of the trade it seems. Personally I do prefer a nice display tank. Love my exo-terras for my herps

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2


----------



## magicmed (Jun 8, 2016)

Roy1982 said:


> I'm sorry, I don't understand your reply. Could you explain please?


Well breeders often have a ton of adults for breeding, not to mention the babies, they can't be kept together so things like deli cups are needed, else there would be tons spent on housing the animals in nice display cases


----------



## cold blood (Jun 8, 2016)

Roy1982 said:


> I'm sorry, but regardless of if they were bread in captivity, they don't deserve to be in such small enclosures. I'm a grown man, 33 years old, and it kinda hurts to see these scary, beutiful creatures put and kept in small containers, and enclosures. It really does. I'm really tough, but I have a conscious, and a heart, and it does hurt to see people putting and or keeping them in small containers. Thanks for the complement. The idea came from Lizard enclosures. It can be very small enclosure, or extremely large enclosure with this idea. With the price so high for Acrylic and clear plastics, it was very difficult to pay 100's of $$$$ for a 100% clear plastic enclosure, and I've checked ePlastics, McMaster-Carr, and other places online, and even my local Lowe's home improvement store, and the material is very expensive, even for those that actually have money to burn, which I do.


You're getting upset about something you don't fully understand.   Tarantulas, especially terrestrials, do not require large enclosures...they're homebodies that, even in the wild, rarely travel long distances and often live their lives in a single burrow...only mature males actually roam as roaming around is a dangerous proposition for a spider, no matter how big it gets, in fact larger enclosures often make things more difficult for both you and the t in many cases.

Condiment cups and deli cups are one of the overall best vessels for rearing young or small tarantulas, regardless of price.

Reactions: Agree 17


----------



## Blackout14 (Jun 8, 2016)

Roy1982 said:


> Your right.. Maybe I'm wrong. I just want the best for my first Tarantula, Scorpion, Praying Mantis, or whatever I choose to get first. Maybe I have some serious regret and pain from my very first Tarantula. I ended up getting rid of it, because my mom hated and was afraid of ALL animals. Seriously.
> 
> That was a long time ago. I'm all grown up now, and have a full time job.
> 
> ...


Good on you for doing your reasearch man!  Anyone that is that concerned about the animals well being before buying it is ok in my book.  Read through this sight in what you think you may want as most care sheets are garbage.  Now that said I do not use deli cups because I do not like the way they look I use clear acrylic boxes from the container store.com for anything under about 3 inches they are crystal clear and look great and they have short tall all different sizes the 4 inch by 4 inch is my favorite.  Drill a few holes and you are good to go and they stack well.  As mine get much past they they will be moving to 5 gallon away round with plexy lids or container store acrylic shoeboxes that are the same floor space just not as high as you don't want terrestrials to get to high as a fall will kill them.  Check em out that website has a ton of nice "cages" 





 And the clear shoe boxes come in different sizes this is the biggest

Reactions: Like 4


----------



## Haksilence (Jun 8, 2016)

Roy1982 said:


> I'm sorry, but regardless of if they were bread in captivity, they don't deserve to be in such small enclosures. I'm a grown man, 33 years old, and it kinda hurts to see these scary, beutiful creatures put and kept in small containers, and enclosures. It really does. I'm really tough, but I have a conscious, and a heart, and it does hurt to see people putting and or keeping them in small containers. Thanks for the complement. The idea came from Lizard enclosures. It can be very small enclosure, or extremely large enclosure with this idea. With the price so high for Acrylic and clear plastics, it was very difficult to pay 100's of $$$$ for a 100% clear plastic enclosure, and I've checked ePlastics, McMaster-Carr, and other places online, and even my local Lowe's home improvement store, and the material is very expensive, even for those that actually have money to burn, which I do.



tarantulas dont require large amounts of room.....
3x dls is more than adequate

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Solsurfer (Jun 8, 2016)

This was a good thread haha . yeah tarantulas dont need a complex vivarium with lots of room to get exercise and run around . its all about preference i guess. You could. Theoretically put a tarantula into a giant enclosure but if theres structure within like plants , bark ,etcetera its going to find a place that it likes and only use a very small portion of the enclosure as a whole. If its a mm i think it might enjoy more space to roam but thats just preference if you want to give it that. They dont need it

Open space like a lizard or snake . tarantulas feel safer in more clustered enclosures because touch to a t is like sight to a human . they see the world through touch for the most part and the more contact points they have the safer they feel . Thats why i try to find a happy medium of space and structure like plastic plants especially with nervous species. They will actually come out to be visible if they feel like theyre in the center of a brushpile , bush , rockpile , or tree. Anyways thats just my take on this lol. Btw sorry about the sarcasm at the beginning

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## Andrea82 (Jun 8, 2016)

While I appreciate your concern about the welfare of the animals, I don't like very much your way of barging in here and shout it out. If you would have done your research like you said you did, you could have known already why tarantula prefer smaller enclosures.
Mantids need space, but that doesn't mean all inverts need space.
Breeders who use the proper sized enclosure are succesfull because they recognize the need of the tarantula. 
You may not like them in small enclosures. But it is not about what you like, it is about what the tarantula likes that is most important.

Reactions: Like 9


----------



## Roy1982 (Jun 8, 2016)

Vince Zito said:


> This was a good thread haha . yeah tarantulas dont need a complex vivarium with lots of room to get exercise and run around . its all about preference i guess. You could. Theoretically put a tarantula into a giant enclosure but if theres structure within like plants , bark ,etcetera its going to find a place that it likes and only use a very small portion of the enclosure as a whole. If its a mm i think it might enjoy more space to roam but thats just preference if you want to give it that. They dont need it
> 
> Open space like a lizard or snake . tarantulas feel safer in more clustered enclosures because touch to a t is like sight to a human . they see the world through touch for the most part and the more contact points they have the safer they feel . Thats why i try to find a happy medium of space and structure like plastic plants especially with nervous species. They will actually come out to be visible if they feel like theyre in the center of a brushpile , bush , rockpile , or tree. Anyways thats just my take on this lol. Btw sorry about the sarcasm at the beginning


Small enclosure, no more than 2 times the leg span. Got it. 80% Humid, no more than 72°F Min - 82°F Max Got it. Not going in a deli cup. I'll make a small wood and polycarbonate box for him/her. With that, I can make about 10 enclosures.

But I'm not going to do that. Starting with just 1 or 2 pets. I'm thinking either a Tarantula, or a Scorpion, or maybe both.

You weren't sarcastic, that I could tell. Thanks for the reply.



Andrea82 said:


> While I appreciate your concern about the welfare of the animals, I don't like very much your way of barging in here and shout it out. If you would have done your research like you said you did, you could have known already why tarantula prefer smaller enclosures.
> Mantids need space, but that doesn't mean all inverts need space.
> Breeders who use the proper sized enclosure are successful because they recognize the need of the tarantula.
> You may not like them in small enclosures. But it is not about what you like, it is about what the tarantula likes that is most important.


http://www.tarantulas.com/care_info.html

Btw, I never mentioned I studied about them.

The post was aimed at the people putting them in small deli cups, etc. But I understand now. Thanks for the reply.

Yeah.. Kinda depressing.. I guess I wanted a really big project, to use my knowledge of building stuff, but it's actually child's play when I realize it, thanks to everyone on here. I did read about the enclosures, and they don't need to be big.

http://www.tarantulas.com/care_info.html

Not to mention the video : 




Sorry for being a butt hole. I tend to overthink stuff, and over do stuff.

I need a bigger pet.

This whole Tarantula & Scorpion thing really is aimed towards people that want something simple.

I want a challange. Maybe I'll get a Cobra or something.. But I checked some videos on that too, and their enclosures are tiny too.










Maybe I'll call Jurassic Park, and see if I can get some Velociraptors or something.

A Lot of people get Lizards.. Maybe I'll look at Lizards, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I might get a Scorpion and Tarantula. Seeing how easy it is.. and how tiny the enclosures are.

Reactions: Like 1 | Disagree 5 | Funny 1


----------



## antinous (Jun 8, 2016)

> If you have anything smart or educational to tell me, please feel free to do so.


Tarantulas are usually sedentary creatures. Building a burrow and not leaving it for any reason other than a predator coming in and harming them (except for wandering males but that's just to find females). Even in the Amazon and Andes (I stayed there for four months researching), I saw the same individuals in the same area. You can surely give them large spaces, but that doesn't mean they're going to use all of it. (I had this whole thing typed out and then my computer turned off so I'm just going to leave this as it is since it seems like I'm re-iterating what other people have said).

I, by no means, am meaning to sound rude so I apologize if it comes off that way.

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## Vanessa (Jun 8, 2016)

Spiders aren't elephants - they don't travel hundreds of miles in the wild. They're prey as much as predators and they stick to one area, which has proven to be safer for them, and stay there. I get that a lot of people don't house exotics properly, but spiders don't take advantage of the big world when they are in the wild.
I'd save your outrage for zoos and aquariums where they do truly imprison animals in far too small enclosures all in the name of entertainment.

Reactions: Agree 7


----------



## Chris LXXIX (Jun 8, 2016)

Man, i'm trying to understand your concerns to a certain extent, legit on the paper for those with a little knowledge about T's, but reality differs.

Slings, little ones, for instance... doesn't need at all a "big" enclosure, notably the opposite, the little the better. To house a so tiny _Theraphosidae _into a big enclosure "with everything inside" it's just like to put a person into somewhere he/she doesn't know, never was before, without the chance to use his/her eyes.

A lot of enthusiasts disagree with that, they say: "if the T's catch the food, no problem" but me not. That's not only that. You work better in little, with slings.

I can't stand to view not even 2 cm _G.rosea_ or what, housed in medium KK or else. Are we joking?

I do agree that with juvenile & adults, according to their needs, a bit of "space" is needed. With that said, i wouldn't house not even a genus _Theraphosa _one into a giant cage like a 10 gallon one.

What's important is "height" for arboreals, "height" for obligate burrowers (so you can add an helluva -- cold blood -- of substrate) for terrestrials, a "normal" decent set up enclosure it's simply perfect.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 2


----------



## Poec54 (Jun 8, 2016)

Roy1982 said:


> 1. People should have to show proof of their enclosure before buying a T.
> 
> 2. The enclosure should be large, without clutter. If you're going to decorate, the enclosure should be big enough to allow trees, rocks, etc. While still allowing the T to walk about freely and comfortably.


 
We_* definitely*_ need more regulations and inspections, and teams of mindless bureaucrats telling us what to do.

Reactions: Like 3 | Funny 9


----------



## Chris LXXIX (Jun 8, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> We_* definitely*_ need more regulations and inspections, and teams of mindless bureaucrats telling us what to do.


True, Poec54.

It's amazing that a lot of people worldwide continue to fail to realize this. Those inspections and regulations would do nothing but _destroying _the _Theraphosidae _hobby as we used, and loved, to know.

What happened in Italy, just after the 2003 (insane) Arachnid *total *(native spiders/scorpions included, so go figure) Ban?

The system banned those, but had to deal, of course, with those (so me as well) that had until the other day lots of Arachnids at home.

So happened that some naive keeper/s (i wasn't one of those, i've mantained a wise, low profile) called, trough local authorities (so vet, the wild life department etc add those type of folks payed by the state "living" of that, related to animals) those folks for have an inspection & check on their inverts.

Those, needless to say, absolutely uneducated on the Arachnids subject (as you know, aren't exactly S.Nunn or your friend Sam Marshall those people) obligated those keepers to build (or buy) a *second*! "sort of enclosure", made by those type of grate/iron vents... don't know now how to say in proper English, sorry... to put as a sort of last resort if... the T's escapes from the KK, or glass cages, or else. Hope i gave you the idea. A sort of "_Matrioska_" enclosure, ah ah.

This, combined with the fines, forced a lot of quite skilled breeders to stop. I ended my local, neighbour regions "invertsonals" & amateur breeding projects (breed something now illegal you can't trade/sell? Madness, IMO).

Today the situation seems a bit better, tough (we had recent Italian breedings without issues) still...

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Trenor (Jun 8, 2016)

Roy1982 said:


> I guess I wanted a really big project, to use my knowledge of building stuff


This hobby can allow you to flex all kinds of building muscles. I enclosure doesn't have to be monolithic in order to use building skills.


Roy1982 said:


> This whole Tarantula & Scorpion thing really is aimed towards people that want something simple.


Keeping tarantulas is not hard but does require learning. Anything is simple once you know what to do. There is a wide range of tarantulas out there with different needs, colors, temperament, enclosure requirements etc. It is a challenge learning to care for them all correctly.


Roy1982 said:


> I want a challange. Maybe I'll get a Cobra or something.. But I checked some videos on that too, and their enclosures are tiny too.


Again, I feel your going to an extreme without proper understanding. It's the pet not the enclosure that makes the challenge. Also man, deciding if your going to own a cobra takes a lot more consideration then enclosure size. 

Finally, let me just say, you should study up on all the pets your interested in and decide on one that's in your skill level and you feel you can care for(keep in mind how long some of these animals live). Then use your building skills to set up a nice home for it. I have reptiles and tarantulas. They all have good enclosures. My Bearded Dragon has custom cut slate tile flooring in his home. I built my ball python's hide with shelving wood and he enclosure layout is very functional and looks great too. My Ts have nice enclosure layouts as well. There is plenty of opportunity to get your build on but please get a pet because you are interested in that pet and want to take care of it. Needing a building project is not a great reason to buy a pet.

Reactions: Like 7 | Agree 3


----------



## Vanessa (Jun 8, 2016)

I know a guy who has cobras - spitting cobras as well as dozens of other highly venomous snakes.  He spends hundreds of dollars regularly shipping in anti-venom from all over the world and housing it correctly in case of emergency. Some anti-venom isn't as easy as just sticking a needle in your arm - many of them require intravenous setup to administer it. 
I wonder how many people have these snakes and no easy access to anti-venom in case of an accident? I guess that would be considered 'thinning the herd'?

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Blackout14 (Jun 8, 2016)

VanessaS said:


> I know a guy who has cobras - spitting cobras as well as dozens of other highly venomous snakes.  He spends hundreds of dollars regularly shipping in anti-venom from all over the world and housing it correctly in case of emergency. Some anti-venom isn't as easy as just sticking a needle in your arm - many of them require intravenous setup to administer it.
> I wonder how many people have these snakes and no easy access to anti-venom in case of an accident? I guess that would be considered 'thinning the herd'?


Thousands probably.. Walks into er.  Yea I got bit by a mamba just wanted some anti venom

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


----------



## Chris LXXIX (Jun 8, 2016)

VanessaS said:


> Some anti-venom isn't as easy as just sticking a needle in your arm - many of them require intravenous setup to administer it.
> I wonder how many people have these snakes and no easy access to anti-venom in case of an accident? I guess that would be considered 'thinning the herd'?


I completely agree with you. That's why i don't like too much, Arachnids talking, those that vouche for "hots" like _A.robustus_ or _P.nigriventer_.
How (ah ah ah) if someone manage to own one, here in Italy, if a bite happens, to have per time the antidote/antivenom shot/s? He/She will die before the sanity system we have, sadly, realize where Australia is and starts bureaucracy :-s

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Ryuti (Jun 8, 2016)

I just love when people who have no idea what they're talking about berate and judge others who DO know what they're talking about 

Even more so when their rant gets debunked

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


----------



## Andrea82 (Jun 8, 2016)

Yes you did say you did research:
_Seriously, in the past several days researching, I've seen so many children and adults unboxing T's and putting them in tupperware cups, deli cups. Not to mention Scorpions, and Lizards._
But good to see you're realizing your error in thought. Don't really like the way you're going on another rant about tarantula not being interesting because of small enclosures though, that doesn't make sense at all. 
If you want big, and a huge project, go for a fishtank. Are you interested in tarantula at all? Or just building huge enclosures? You could help out a zoo doing that 
_
_

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


----------



## Trenor (Jun 8, 2016)

VanessaS said:


> I know a guy who has cobras - spitting cobras as well as dozens of other highly venomous snakes.  He spends hundreds of dollars regularly shipping in anti-venom from all over the world and housing it correctly in case of emergency. Some anti-venom isn't as easy as just sticking a needle in your arm - many of them require intravenous setup to administer it.
> I wonder how many people have these snakes and no easy access to anti-venom in case of an accident? I guess that would be considered 'thinning the herd'?





Chris LXXIX said:


> I completely agree with you. That's why i don't like too much, Arachnids talking, those that vouche for "hots" like _A.robustus_ or _P.nigriventer_.
> How (ah ah ah) if someone manage to own one, here in Italy, if a bite happens, to have per time the antidote/antivenom shot/s? He/She will die before the sanity system we have, sadly, realize where Australia is and starts bureaucracy :-s


A bit off topic but we recently had a guy in NC get bit by a cobra(They never said what kind of cobra). They flew anti-venom in from a zoo that had some. Even with the treatment he is still not doing good. They may have to amputate the limb and he might never recover. This guy worked with NCs Reptile Rescue and had a large collection of his own. Venomous snakes are dangerous even when you know what your doing. Even with access to anti-venom and good treatment it still might end poorly.

Reactions: Agree 3


----------



## Vanessa (Jun 8, 2016)

The guy I know has been spit at by his spitting cobra. The latch on the lid was faulty and the snake was able to push it open. Cobras are glorious creatures and are able to rear up the entire length of their bodies, unlike the bulkier snakes. Spitting cobras can spit something like 15 metres with almost 100% accuracy. They are unbelievable creations of nature. 
Luckily he was not alone in the warehouse he keeps all these snakes in and he had someone there to rush him to the hospital.  It was even luckier for him that he didn't backpedal into another of his snake enclosures - like the ones with the diamondback rattlesnakes or pit vipers in them.
The more that you are around these dangerous animals, the higher the chances of something going very wrong. That is why we have a ban in Toronto. Too many people own them who are in way over their heads and putting everyone around them at risk.


----------



## magicmed (Jun 8, 2016)

OK taking care of snakes for near 20 years, not to mention common sense tell me you may need to re evaluate your reasoning for wanting a pet. Wanting to build something or having something cool and flashy is NOT any reason to attempt caretaking of an animal. If you want to build something I suggest making a Live plant terrarium, they can be very rewarding . But please do not go off getting a hot reptile, getting yourself killed, and further ruining the reputation of the animal. I'm not trying to be mean, but what you're talking about is common in the reptile game and it leads to a lot of abandoned animals.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


----------



## Chris LXXIX (Jun 8, 2016)

Trenor said:


> A bit off topic but we recently had a guy in NC get bit by a cobra(They never said what kind of cobra). They flew anti-venom in from a zoo that had some. Even with the treatment he is still not doing good. They may have to amputate the limb and he might never recover. This guy worked with NCs Reptile Rescue and had a large collection of his own. Venomous snakes are dangerous even when you know what your doing. Even with access to anti-venom and good treatment it still might end poorly.


Yup, man. But in the U.S. Biggest worldwide famous Zoo's, corporations, medical labs etc

Here in Italy a thing like that would degenerate even worst, if possible.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Tenevanica (Jun 8, 2016)

Roy1982 said:


> Your right.. Maybe I'm wrong. I just want the best for my first Tarantula, Scorpion, Praying Mantis, or whatever I choose to get first. Maybe I have some serious regret and pain from my very first Tarantula. I ended up getting rid of it, because my mom hated and was afraid of ALL animals. Seriously.
> 
> That was a long time ago. I'm all grown up now, and have a full time job.
> 
> ...


Ever tried AMAC boxes? They're what I use for slings, and the look nice.



Roy1982 said:


> Small enclosure, no more than 2 times the leg span. Got it. 80% Humid, no more than 72°F Min - 82°F Max Got it. Not going in a deli cup. I'll make a small wood and polycarbonate box for him/her. With that, I can make about 10 enclosures.
> 
> But I'm not going to do that. Starting with just 1 or 2 pets. I'm thinking either a Tarantula, or a Scorpion, or maybe both.
> 
> You weren't sarcastic, that I could tell. Thanks for the reply.


I can't tell if you're joking or not! 80% is WAY too humid for any of the beginner species. Plywood is NOT a suitable terrarium material. It rots when it gets wet. Not to mention the mold. Also, T's will be happy with a much wider range of temps than that. 65 - 85 is more like it. Idk where you're getting this info, but most of its inaccurate...

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 4


----------



## Blackout14 (Jun 8, 2016)

I believe op gots everyone riled up and left not sure if anything he posted was serious or not or he got mad and left

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## Tenevanica (Jun 8, 2016)

Blackout14 said:


> I believe op gots everyone riled up and left not sure if anything he posted was serious or not or he got mad and left


I hope he doesn't go out and buy a _P. metallica,_ and proceed to house it in a  100 gallon tank.

"What do the people in Arachnoboards know? They just want me to stop owning T's so they can have the hobby all to themselves!"

I'm not trying to be mean to the OP, BTW. I assume he has good intentions, but is just uninformed. There are people though that DO have that mindset, though. I was poking fun at those people, not the OP

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2


----------



## Poec54 (Jun 8, 2016)

VanessaS said:


> - The guy I know has been spit at by his spitting cobra.
> -Spitting cobras can spit something like 15 metres with almost 100% accuracy.
> - Luckily he was not alone in the warehouse he keeps all these snakes in and he had someone there to rush him to the hospital.


 
I had a collection of cobras for 9 years, 150 at my peak.  Let me clear up a few things:

- _'Has been spit at by his spitting cobra.'_  Not a big deal.  If you have spitting cobras, you will get venom on you.  Some spit more than others, personalities vary.  I had some black Naja nigricollis from Togo that always spat whenever I opened their cages.  I wore a plastic face shield (painter's/grinder's mask).  There would be venom all over the face shield, my bare arms, and the plexiglass front of it's cage.  They'd spit 10 times in a matter of minutes and not run out.  Most African spitters have triangle-shaped heads, due to the enlarged venom glands.  The venom holes are in the front of their fangs, instead of the tips.  They usually stay low and aim, like a sniper.  But, in your favor is the fact that they don't understand the concept of limbs, and will spit just as readily at your hands and arms.  As long as you don't have any open cuts or scratches on you, the venom has no effect on skin.  I've been spit on hundreds of times, never had a reaction.

A reptile friend of mine was in the military on a mission in Africa decades ago.  Ran across a spitter and it got him in the eyes. Very painful, but no permanent eye damage.  The pain will get you to rinse out your eyes, so the venom isn't usually going to be in long.  Spitter venom seems to have less potent neurotoxins and more necrotic properties than other cobras. 

- _15 meters?  100% accurate?_  Those are *wild* exaggerations.  Africans can spit 10 to 12 feet or so; it's sprayed out in a fine mist, so there's good coverage (like a shotgun), but they're not going to hit your eyes every time, and like I said, they'll spit at hands and arms too.  I've heard it speculated that they evolved this ability to keep hoofed stock at a distance, to avoid being trampled on by herds.  It probably works. 

Asian cobras aren't as advanced in spitting, and stand and lunge when they spit, so the accuracy is poor; they could hit any part of your body, or miss you entirely.  Instead of a mist, their venom comes out in small blobs, and the range is only several feet. 

-_ 'Rushed to the hospital'?_  How fast do you think venom works?  I was bitten during a feeding in my first year with cobras (no bites in the following 8 years).  As I was separating two monocles for feeding, one got excited and accidently bit me on the finger.  It was as surprised as I was.  A drop of blood confirmed I was bitten.  I changed clothes, turned on the night lights, and drove myself to the hospital.  After 3 hours I started to go downhill, but _within seconds_ of the serum being injected, I could feel it working throughout my body (antivenin is made from horse blood).  The serum was flown in by helicopter.  As soon as I got out of the hospital, I ordered serum to keep at home, 20 vials of SAIMR polyvalent.  The faster you get serum, the less you'll need.  People can have an allergic reaction to serum and die in minutes; you *never* want to administer it outside of a hospital unless you have no choice.  Doctors give a tiny amount via IV, and evaluate your reaction. 

Most snake bite deaths take place in 12 to 24 hours, with cobras and their relatives, the nerve transmissions for the lungs to breathe are blocked, and most people suffocate. There are snakes where fatalities can happen much faster, black mambas come to mind.  They're big snakes with a lot of extremely potent venom, and are known for giving multiple bites in quick succession.  People have died from those in an hour or less.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 6 | Award 1


----------



## Blackout14 (Jun 8, 2016)

Tenevanica said:


> I hope he doesn't go out and buy a _P. metallica,_ and proceed to house it in a  100 gallon tank.
> 
> "What do the people in Arachnoboards know? They just want me to stop owning T's so they can have the hobby all to themselves!"
> 
> I'm not trying to be mean to the OP, BTW. I assume he has good intentions, but is just uninformed. There are people though that DO have that mindset, though. I was poking fun at those people, not the OP


Well hopefully he takes the advice that was given.  A p metallica would have a lot of space to gain some momentum in a 100 gallon though lol

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Vanessa (Jun 8, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> - _'Has been spit at by his spitting cobra.'_  Not a big deal.  If you have spitting cobras, you will get venom on you.  Some spit more than others, personalities vary.  I had some black Naja nigricollis from Togo that always spat whenever I opened their cages.  I wore a plastic face shield (painter's/grinder's mask).  There would be venom all over the face shield, my bare arms, and the plexiglass front of it's cage.  They'd spit 10 times in a matter of minutes and not run out.  Most African spitters have triangle-shaped heads, due to the enlarged venom glands.  The venom holes are in the front of their fangs, instead of the tips.  They usually stay low and aim, like a sniper.  But, in your favor is the fact that they don't understand the concept of limbs, and will spit just as readily at your hands and arms.  As long as you don't have any open cuts or scratches on you, the venom has no effect on skin.  I've been spit on hundreds of times, never had a reaction.
> 
> A reptile friend of mine was in the military on a mission in Africa decades ago.  Ran across a spitter and it got him in the eyes. Very painful, but no permanent eye damage.  The pain will get you to rinse out your eyes, so the venom isn't usually going to be in long.  Spitter venom seems to have less potent neurotoxins and more necrotic properties than other cobras.


It got him right in the eyes and he was more than just a couple feet away.  And he pin-wheeled back and was lucky that he didn't take out the other enclosures in the process. He was damn lucky and he was rushed to the hospital in a great deal of pain.
Maybe it was 15 feet I read and not 15 metres. Fair enough.
If you want to downplay the severity of something like that happening - so be it. I take a situation like that very seriously. I have been in that warehouse, filled with hundreds of snakes (not all of them venomous) and I sure wouldn't have wanted to be there when it happened and have this snake loose to do further damage.
This guy is no novice, he has had every imaginable snake there is over decades. He had to buy a huge warehouse to keep them in. Even people who have years of experience are not immune to accidents happening. Again, if you want to downplay this type of thing - go ahead. I really don't think that helps anyone. They're dangerous and most people who have them shouldn't.

Reactions: Like 6


----------



## vespers (Jun 8, 2016)

Tenevanica said:


> Plywood is NOT a suitable terrarium material. It rots when it gets wet. Not to mention the mold.


Wood enclosures/terrariums can indeed built, people have been making and using them in the herp hobby for many years. You have to make sure the wood is properly sealed with polyurethane or a similar coating prior to use, of course. But said wooden cages are more appropriate for snakes, chameleons, large lizards, etc. I don't think I would use them for any arachnids though.

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## viper69 (Jun 8, 2016)

Tenevanica said:


> Plywood is NOT a suitable terrarium material. It rots when it gets wet. Not to mention the mold.


Bare wood yes, but sealed and treated wood, not an issue. What do you think we have been using all these years before plastic was around?? 




Poec54 said:


> _15 meters? 100% accurate?_ Those are *wild* exaggerations.


I couldn't agree more!

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## beaker41 (Jun 8, 2016)

Oh my god this thread is a roller coaster of emotion. I got sucked in by my sympathy for the manic cage builder and then he went completely spitting cobra bananas. Everything I've ever wanted to say about cage size and aesthetics vs animal well being but was too lazy to express in the first half of the thread. I've built plywood fish tanks before , I used several coats of this white (so no dye toxins) two part epoxy paint they had left over after building the local water park. It's completely safe toxin wise and after several coats, sanded it will hold water and be just like plastic. I made a 125 gallon and ended up spending way more building the damn thing than just buying one, but there you go, manic builder.

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 4


----------



## Venom1080 (Jun 8, 2016)

man i wish i caught this thread earlier.. and now hes gone..

Reactions: Like 3 | Funny 1


----------



## magicmed (Jun 8, 2016)

Venom1080 said:


> man i wish i caught this thread earlier.. and now hes gone..


Tony stark went crazy!

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Trenor (Jun 8, 2016)

magicmed said:


> Tony stark went crazy!


I think he was more excited then crazy and perhaps a bit too enthusiastic. Maybe he has learned from the good info and will look into a pet he'll enjoy.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Abyss (Jun 8, 2016)

Intersting read so far lol

Here is my 2 cents at the risk of getting bashed lol

It does confuse me to no end that we as hobbiests will spend a fortune on T's then use bottle caps an deli cups to house them. One could argue that dropping say $200 on a particular T should mean your financially well off enough to NOT need to toss it in tupperware cause "acrylic is so expensive".

All that being said, here is what I do........
Slings go in 88 cent (yes, these things do not even cost $1) super stacker boxes













Image



__ Abyss
__ Jun 3, 2016
__ 12



						Nice new 1.5" versacolor sling just got here an got in its new home.
Great packing job for the...
					



 thats a 1.5" versacolor sling and even for 88 cents it looks a TON better (IMO) then a deli cup and its even more functional (again IMO) and again, it was only 88 cents lol

Once they outgrow those and move on to juvie(ish) size they go in the larger version for $3 each ($3 cant be too expensive for a decent looking and functional enclosure)

From there depending on species they rehouse into their final disply enclosure. Generally i always have a few nice acrylics ready and a few exo terras ready. I cant afford any more really so my T collection will be limited to whats available to me until i can buy another nice disply enclosure at which time i will then add another T to the collection and so on.













Image



__ Abyss
__ May 20, 2016
__ 4





an example of a final display enclosure (this one is for my female P. metallica).

Now, all that said, i swear those cheap little 88 cent "super stacker" boxes look pretty good and are a VERY cheap option and can be stood on end for arboreals as i did or of course left on their bottom for Terestrials. There are plenty of cheap options out there to make beatiful homes for our T's from sling size all the way to adult hood.
Personally, i think if we are gonna invest in our T's we should display them proudly. I try to make all enclures from sling to adult look the best i possibly can. The very first thing i do with any T i get from an expo or online is rehouse it into a great looking enclosure.
agree or not, its how i feel about it.

Disclaimer!!!!!!!
enclosures/hides are part of my joy of this hobby. Attempting to recreate a vibrant/natural look is important to me (its not important to everyone and in alot of cases is not important to the T). Everyone has to use what best for them and there is NOTHING wrong with that!!!!!!
 I go on record as saying deli cups make VERY cheap and VERY functional enclosures for slings and i am NOT bashing their use in any way whatsoever.

Reactions: Like 3


----------



## Vanessa (Jun 8, 2016)

There is more to take into consideration than money for the enclosure itself. Many people, me included, don't live in places that might afford the space to house large enclosures.  It isn't that we don't have the money for the enclosure - it's that some of us don't have the money for a bigger house.
Plus, those of us who have other animals who might knock over the enclosures have to take into account safety issues.  Again, if you are having to secure them then you might not have the luxury of an accident proof 'spider room' and you have to consider less elaborate enclosures.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 1


----------



## cold blood (Jun 8, 2016)

Expensive enclosures are for the owner, not the t.   A $6 sterilite enclosure can be ventilated easily and the set ups can be perfect for ts...not for us, we want to see them, that's the sole reason people spend more...not for the betterment of the t, for visibility for the owner, period.

Reactions: Agree 4


----------



## Abyss (Jun 8, 2016)

cold blood said:


> Expensive enclosures are for the owner, not the t.   A $6 sterilite enclosure can be ventilated easily and the set ups can be perfect for ts...not for us, we want to see them, that's the sole reason people spend more...not for the betterment of the t, for visibility for the owner, period.


Agreed fully, thats why i offered a disclaimer 
Spot on as usual pal


----------



## Poec54 (Jun 8, 2016)

VanessaS said:


> It got him right in the eyes and he was more than just a couple feet away.  And he pin-wheeled back and was lucky that he didn't take out the other enclosures in the process. He was damn lucky and he was rushed to the hospital in a great deal of pain.
> Maybe it was 15 feet I read and not 15 metres. Fair enough.
> If you want to downplay the severity of something like that happening - so be it. I take a situation like that very seriously. I have been in that warehouse, filled with hundreds of snakes (not all of them venomous) and I sure wouldn't have wanted to be there when it happened and have this snake loose to do further damage.
> This guy is no novice, he has had every imaginable snake there is over decades. He had to buy a huge warehouse to keep them in. Even people who have years of experience are not immune to accidents happening. Again, if you want to downplay this type of thing - go ahead. I really don't think that helps anyone. They're dangerous and most people who have them shouldn't.



Not downplaying cobras, hey, I went thru a bite.  I take it seriously, more than you; I lived with them for 9 years.  About a third of my cobras were spitters, so maybe up to 50 at one point.  That's a lot of times to be spat on.  Yes, they're dangerous and accidents can happen to anyone.  But they're still just snakes, no super powers.  Although they can move quickly (I think of them as black racers with fangs), their strikes are much slower than a viper's.  Cobras in defensive mode are all about displays and warnings, and may give dry bites unless really provoked.  They'd prefer to bluff their way out.  A spitting cobra is like a tarantula kicking hairs; they want you to keep your distance; they have no malice and don't want to have to bite. 

The most dangerous time with any cobra, by far, is feeding.  All bets are off once they smell food when the temps are high; they lunge at anything that moves: reflections on glass, shadows, even their own tails.  That's the most likely time to be bitten and when they'll inject the most venom.  It's like a shark frenzy.  On warm days as I was feeding, some would rub their open mouths back and forth across the glass on the front of their cage.  And I'd have to open those cages to feed them.  A few would lunge halfway out of their cages as I opened them.  I'd have to get the snake back in it's cage, while it was still lunging and biting at me and the stick, then toss the food in and close the cage.  So yeah, I know all about how serious it is, much more than you ever will.  I have a crippled finger as a daily reminder.  Obviously most people should never own venomous snakes, and that's were legislation continues to head.  In Florida, besides inspections & micro-chipping, applicants are first required to have 1,000 hours of training to get a permit.  That's almost impossible, so the hobby is being phased out her, the result of a few high profile bites and escapes. 

Your friend is obviously experienced, but if you don't have goggles or a face shield on when a spitting cobra is out or it's cage is opened, that's a serious blunder, for which he paid the price.  Another good idea is to have a snake stick in your hand whenever a venomous cage is opened, whether in your house or someone else's.  Cobras can zip out of cages and across floors; with a stick, an experienced person has little to worry about.  I remember on a couple episodes, Steve Irwin would be in Africa with sunglasses on, in front of a spitting cobra, and then turn his head sideways when it spat, reducing the protection of the glasses.  A highly experienced person making a beginner mistake. 

As far as accidents happening to experienced people, I knew two guys in Florida who did venom extraction: George van Horn in St Cloud and Glen Womble in Melbourne.  George was pretty carefree in handling his snakes on the venom line, frequently had his hands in striking range; made me nervous to watch him work.  He was bitten 9 times over the years, and was missing parts of a few fingers (the classic sign of a venomous keeper).  The last bite was by a 14' male king cobra.  The serious injury to his arm, and the huge medical expenses ending up putting him out of business, after decades of venom extraction.  Glen on the other hand was very careful and meticulous, and managed to retire from a career of extraction bite-free. 

I was in a reptile club back then, that met monthly in Orlando.  One guy had a photo album of his snakes.  There would be pics of him sitting in his living room chair with a hooded cobra in his lap.  Turn the page and there he was in a hospital bed.  Then pics of him free-handling a viper.  Page after page of this.  He was bitten by 8 different snakes (probably more since then).  Those are the guys that ruin it for everyone else.  At another meeting a couple was giving a slide show talk, the husband was permanently in a wheel chair, with greatly reduced eyesight and hearing; the result of a tiger snake bite.  These were people that survived.  Some didn't.

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 2 | Informative 2


----------



## Chris LXXIX (Jun 8, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> Not downplaying cobras, hey, I went thru a bite.  I take it seriously, more than you; I lived with them for 9 years.  About a third of my cobras were spitters, so maybe up to 50 at one point.  That's a lot of times to be spat on.  Yes, they're dangerous and accidents can happen to anyone.  But they're still just snakes, no super powers.  Although they can move quickly (I think of them as black racers with fangs), their strikes are much slower than a viper's.  Cobras in defensive mode are all about displays and warnings, and may give dry bites unless really provoked.  They'd prefer to bluff their way out.  A spitting cobra is like a tarantula kicking hairs; they want you to keep your distance; they have no malice and don't want to have to bite.
> 
> The most dangerous time with any cobra, by far, is feeding.  All bets are off once they smell food when the temps are high; they lunge at anything that moves: reflections on glass, shadows, even their own tails.  That's the most likely time to be bitten and when they'll inject the most venom.  It's like a shark frenzy.  On warm days as I was feeding, some would rub their open mouths back and forth across the glass on the front of their cage.  And I'd have to open those cages to feed them.  A few would lunge halfway out of their cages as I opened them.  I'd have to get the snake back in it's cage, while it was still lunging and biting at me and the stick, then toss the food in and close the cage.  So yeah, I know all about how serious it is, much more than you ever will.  I have a crippled finger as a daily reminder.  Obviously most people should never own venomous snakes, and that's were legislation continues to head.  In Florida, besides inspections & micro-chipping, applicants are first required to have 1,000 hours of training to get a permit.  That's almost impossible, so the hobby is being phased out her, the result of a few high profile bites and escapes.
> 
> ...


In a wheel chair, almost blind, almost deaf. Basically life ruined. Dafaq man, that's not worth if you ask me. I try to understand the passion, but no emotion repay health.

Reactions: Agree 5


----------



## Trenor (Jun 8, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> In a wheel chair, almost blind, almost deaf. Basically life ruined. Dafaq man, that's not worth if you ask me. Nothing pay health.


Agreed, I'll just look at some photos of them.. OK.. thanks.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 1


----------



## Vanessa (Jun 8, 2016)

Michael wasn't interacting with the cobra when it managed to bump open the top of the enclosure, he was dealing with another snake. The clip was faulty and the cobra had a habit of testing the lid constantly. Michael had no idea - he heard the sound of the lid coming off and when he turned to see what it was it was already part way out of the tank and spat at him. He was extremely lucky because the room was full of venomous snakes and he could have knocked another tank over and let loose a rattlesnake. He couldn't even get himself to the hospital - he was lucky enough to have a helper with him (which he always did when he did any maintenance) and they were able to drive him to the hospital.
I never saw him handle any of the venomous snakes. He had plenty of others who he handled that were not venomous. I don't think he was careless, but faulty clamps and accidents happen. He did everything he could to prevent accidents which is a darn sight more than most people do. He liked his life too much to be careless with it. He never used those snakes to prove anything... which is what a lot of people do.
As far as I know he still has them, along with the alligators and god knows what else at this point. I haven't seen him in a long time.
I don't think I would get any joy out of working with creatures as you describe your experience. I don't like adrenaline rushes and my heart pounding in my ears and sweat running into my eyes. I like my interactions with my creatures to be far more relaxed than that.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Venom1080 (Jun 8, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> In Florida, besides inspections & micro-chipping, applicants are first required to have 1,000 hours of training to get a permit.  That's almost impossible, so the hobby is being phased out her, the result of a few high profile bites and escapes.


micro chipping? whys all that training so very hard to get? is there just not a lot of people willing to put in the time, or is there just not enough people willing to train others?


----------



## Poec54 (Jun 8, 2016)

Venom1080 said:


> micro chipping? whys all that training so very hard to get? is there just not a lot of people willing to put in the time, or is there just not enough people willing to train others?



I got my permit 30 years ago, when all you had to do was send a diagram of your cages and $5.  Inspections were rare.  Gradually there were more bites and escapes, which always get a lot of press.  The fee went up to $100 annually and required a bond.  Then inspections became regular, then microchips.  The clincher was 1,000 hours of training.

_Problems with training include:_
- 1,000 hrs, figure 4 hours a week average, that's 5 years.  Who's going to stick with that?  That's a lot of time together with a stranger.  You have to coordinate both of your schedules, which cuts into your ability to just go places with your wife and family, and your being able to work with your snakes when it's convenient for you.  If you can only get together for 2 hours a week, that's 10 years of training.  What if you get tired of him, or just don't like him?  He could give up halfway thru.

- What if the guy you're training gets bit by one of _your_ snakes while he's training over the years?  You could get sued, by him or his survivors.  Insurance won't cover you for that.  Do you have serum for all your species?

- Obviously some trainees will want to shortcut it, and ask you to sign that you trained them for 1,000 hours if you haven't.  If you do that, what if he gets bit later and blames you for falsifying the documentation and failing to train him properly?  Again, you could get sued, _and _lose your snakes.

- Are you supposed to train for free?  Are you going to charge someone for cleaning your cages?  If you charge them, are you _'in business'_?  Are there local regulations and zoning codes that would apply to you, the professional (for hire) snake trainer?  It gets complicated.

There's little, if any upside to working with and training someone for that long.  It's a liability for the trainer.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Vanessa (Jun 8, 2016)

The training is an obvious deterrent where all the other rules have failed to rid the hobby of people who shouldn't be there. They know that people won't do it. They aren't trying to work with people - they are trying to prevent them from having the snakes.
And I can't say I blame them. I don't like the idea of living in the same building as someone who thinks it's okay to watch television with a cobra on his lap. I don't want to open my door in the morning to find a rattlesnake outside my door. Yes, the current ban includes my tarantulas, which I don't like, but I am glad that it includes venomous snakes. I keep thinking about the guy who works at my pet shop who recently lost his huge centipede. All I could think of was that I was glad he didn't live in my building.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Award 1


----------



## Roy1982 (Jun 9, 2016)

Andrea82 said:


> Yes you did say you did research:
> _Seriously, in the past several days researching, I've seen so many children and adults unboxing T's and putting them in tupperware cups, deli cups. Not to mention Scorpions, and Lizards._
> But good to see you're realizing your error in thought. Don't really like the way you're going on another rant about tarantula not being interesting because of small enclosures though, that doesn't make sense at all.
> If you want big, and a huge project, go for a fishtank. Are you interested in tarantula at all? Or just building huge enclosures? You could help out a zoo doing that


I'm interested. I just don't know what I want yet. The internet is overwhelmed by people selling them. Some of them have bad raps, for selling near dead animals, and the others are good. I was thinking of getting mine from Underground Reptiles. I've heard about LLL Reptiles, and the famous Backwater Reptiles. Anytime I go to search for something, backwater reptiles is usually the first to show in the results.

I'll probably build a smaller version of my design I modeled in 3DS Max.

What's exciting, is the fact that you can get these in the mail. That's what's exciting. Actually owning them.. Well, with so many people owning them, and so many unboxing videos on YouTube, kinda makes me depressed, and lose interest.

I was thinking of maybe a Desert hairy, and making an enclosure with desert sand in it, etc.

I like Tarantulas too. Making the enclosure is easy as well. 

Idk what I'm going to do yet. But if I do anything, I'll be building my enclosure first, then getting the substrate, and then the creature.


----------



## Andrea82 (Jun 9, 2016)

I don't know how you do it, honestly I don't. You seem to have a knack for finding the wrong info...
Backwater reptiles has an extremely bad reputation concerning arachnids. So bad that even here in the Netherlands we know about them. 
I don't understand the rest of your post, and that's not because of the language. 
Why does watching people unboxing T's make you less interested in keeping them? Why build an enclosure first? It is easier to know what you'll be putting in it, knowing the requirements and applying them, then build the enclosure. 
And what is a Desert hairy??

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Funny 1


----------



## Roy1982 (Jun 9, 2016)

Blackout14 said:


> I believe op gots everyone riled up and left not sure if anything he posted was serious or not or he got mad and left


I'm closer than you think. I'm just reading what everyone is saying. I'm not mad, and I'm not ashamed at what I wrote. I didn't like the fact that people were putting the tarantula's in small cups. That's all. I wanted to build a really nice, and big enclosure for whatever I bought. I went to Lowes the other day, took pictures of the plywood they had, and everything. Acrylic is pretty expensive, so that's why I was going to build most of the enclosure out of plywood, and the front would be a window made out of Polycarbonate, which is 200x stronger than Acrylic.

I totally agree with everyone on here, I honestly didn't do any research, I just know the inside needs to be humid, and warm.

I haven't touched a hammer, a saw, or bought anything yet, so I'm basically just trying to ask myself what I want to do, if anything at all. I took a look at the enclosures from TheContainerStore, the  AMAC Boxes, @Tenevanica mentioned, and they're very cheap & affordable.

Yeah, I guess I did try a little too hard to get everyone riled up. Little did I know what you're supposed to keep the things in tiny containers. That was my mistake.

I'm not butthurt from anyone's comments, I'm perfectly fine. "he's crying".. lol,

Seriously.. all joking aside. lol, I honestly didn't know they were supposed to go into small containers, that works out good then.

I watched a video called the Scorpions tale, and I've actually learned quite a bit about Scorpions and Tarantula's in the past week or so. Just no numbers, like exactly how hot the environment needs to be, or how humid exactly it needs to be. But I read from someone's post on here that they like a range of humidity, and a range of tempature. That's good. I guess I don't need to program an Arduino to do all that stuff, and be as strict as I thought I was going to have to be. That's fine. Not that I couldn't handle it if I did need to do that, because I'm freaking 33 years old man. I love to build stuff, and knowing about different materials, and all kinds of crazy shit nobody knows about. I love it. I'm really smart when it comes to that stuff. Honestly. I'm well educated. Seriously. Why did I choose Tony Stark to be my profile image...

Anyways, I'm right here. I haven't gone anywhere. This isn't my first Forum post. I've been into Electronics Forums, Circuitry, Mechanical Engineering forums, Lock picking forums, etc. etc. I usually do post stupid posts, but I mean well. I'll be honest, my post was a little extreame, because that's the way I am.

I've had 1 Tarantula in my life, and kept it for less than a day. Things went south very quickly.

I've never posted in a Arachnid forum before, so that's also part of the way I came in here the way I did.

Again, my post was aimed towards stupid children getting T's and it just seems like there's no stopping anyone from owning even a freaking cobra or whatever, you can just buy it.

That's fine.

I also didn't like the fact that people were putting them in cups, etc.

I didn't know any better, and most of everyone that replied to my thread, corrected me on that. I understand now. But if anyone that reads this post, then I guess if you had further info for me, by all means, go for it. Tell it how it is. I love information, and anything you got to say, let it be negative, or positive, let it fly. I'm right here. I'm a very smart and understanding person.


I didn't mean to offend anyone, if I did, I'm sorry, I didn't know what the hell I was talking about. Still don't. I'm here to learn. That, I guess, is the hidden reason why I'm here.

Since everyone here is experienced, I think instead of me going off to learn about how to care for a tarantula, or scorpion, maybe it would be best if you guys spoke up. Instead of me watching a video on YouTube from other people.



Tenevanica said:


> I can't tell if you're joking or not! 80% is WAY too humid for any of the beginner species. Plywood is NOT a suitable terrarium material. It rots when it gets wet. Not to mention the mold. Also, T's will be happy with a much wider range of temps than that. 65 - 85 is more like it. Idk where you're getting this info, but most of its inaccurate...


Understood. 65-85°F is what they like. 80% humidity is way too humid. So it needs to be lower than that.

There's plywood, then there's Maple.

Obviously, acrylic, polycarbonate, or even cheap plastic works better, but not all wood is created equal. Especially if you finish it properly. 

Yeah, the AMAC boxes look nice. Seriously.

I did check them out, and pretty affordable. Don't see what type of plastic they're made from, which is something like to know, but I'm going to take a educated guess here and say that the tarantula or scorpion will not be getting out of it.



Tenevanica said:


> I hope he doesn't go out and buy a _P. metallica,_ and proceed to house it in a  100 gallon tank.
> 
> "What do the people in Arachnoboards know? They just want me to stop owning T's so they can have the hobby all to themselves!"
> 
> I'm not trying to be mean to the OP, BTW. I assume he has good intentions, but is just uninformed. There are people though that DO have that mindset, though. I was poking fun at those people, not the OP


Yeah.. What the hell do you guys know. All you guys do is put your T's in cups. By the time I get a chance to get a cup and get my T here, all the T's will be gone. 

LMAO !!!!

Not quite.

I understand what everyone is talking about. I actually do read 99% of everyone replies.

I'm having fun reading the posts. I wish people would give me more information, or show me where to go to get some accurate info on the humidity levels and temperatures I need to keep them at, etc. etc.

I haven't read a single mean comment. Trust me, I know if it's mean or not.. or at least I think I do. 



vespers said:


> Wood enclosures/terrariums can indeed built, people have been making and using them in the herp hobby for many years. You have to make sure the wood is properly sealed with polyurethane or a similar coating prior to use, of course. But said wooden cages are more appropriate for snakes, chameleons, large lizards, etc. I don't think I would use them for any arachnids though.


Thank you. Yes, they can. Especially if it's Maple. Maple is a very tight grain, and has little to no grain. It's a very nice wood. It's the best Lowes sells. It's the most expensive.

I was thinking epoxy resin finish..

Makes the wood look like glass. I've used it before, and used a drill to mix it, and ended up with a crap load of bubbles. Your supposed to hand mix it, slowly. Which I didn't. If I did make most of the enclosure out of maple, I'd have the viewing window with a 1/16" of Polycarbonate. Which is 200x stronger than Acrylic, and just as clear.



viper69 said:


> Bare wood yes, but sealed and treated wood, not an issue. What do you think we have been using all these years before plastic was around??
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Absolutely.



beaker41 said:


> Oh my god this thread is a roller coaster of emotion. I got sucked in by my sympathy for the manic cage builder and then he went completely spitting cobra bananas. Everything I've ever wanted to say about cage size and aesthetics vs animal well being but was too lazy to express in the first half of the thread. I've built plywood fish tanks before , I used several coats of this white (so no dye toxins) two part epoxy paint they had left over after building the local water park. It's completely safe toxin wise and after several coats, sanded it will hold water and be just like plastic. I made a 125 gallon and ended up spending way more building the damn thing than just buying one, but there you go, manic builder.


I was going to use like a two part epoxy resin for it. It's maple. It's high quality wood. 

Something like this..
http://www.lowes.com/pd/Famowood-Gloss-Oil-Based-141-fl-oz-Polyurethane/3366918

Yeah, I'm not getting a cobra, it was a joke. I'm not stupid.



Venom1080 said:


> man i wish i caught this thread earlier.. and now hes gone..


Still here. I'll all ears. I would like to hear whatever anyone has to tell me, or explain to me.



magicmed said:


> Tony stark went crazy!


LMAO !!! Not quite. I'm quite sane, and pretty smart, just like Tony.

I might not come off at first like I'm all there, but I can assure you, I'm very capable of reading all these posts, and soaking up any information anyone has to give me.



Trenor said:


> I think he was more excited then crazy and perhaps a bit too enthusiastic. Maybe he has learned from the good info and will look into a pet he'll enjoy.


Your absolutely correct. That's exactly what I "was". Still kinda am.. lol. But more under control now. Thanks. Great pictures btw. Nice camera. I have a cheap lumix lx7, I never use flash, always full manual.



Abyss said:


> Intersting read so far lol
> 
> Here is my 2 cents at the risk of getting bashed lol
> 
> ...


Totally, I'll consider it. But so far, the best ones I like came from IDK.. but they can be bought at 

http://www.containerstore.com/s/gif...oxes/clear-amac-boxes/123d?productId=10003497

Those are cheap.. and they look pretty good.  I read the whole post, and I'm going to put them in smaller enclosures, while being able to display them.

My enclosure that has a link to ImgUr, was designed to be made of maple, finished with epoxy resin, and the front window is a very strong polycarbonate window. Top loading.

http://imgur.com/a/z2G7P

It was going to be HUGE. 40" x 20" x 20", that's L, W, H.

But it will never happen. The enclosure and the money spent on the enclosure(s) will be 10x smaller, and using the enclosure idea's I've gotten from the people that posted replies. Including yours.

I would like to make it out of wood, and have a nice display window for the front. I would. I like working with wood, it's cheap, it looks really nice, and it's a really good feeling to build something with your hands. But I will also "maybe" buy some plastic ones. Not deli cups. 
When I get the T, regardless of how small, it will go into an appropriate sized enclosure, according to what I've learned on here.



VanessaS said:


> There is more to take into consideration than money for the enclosure itself. Many people, me included, don't live in places that might afford the space to house large enclosures.  It isn't that we don't have the money for the enclosure - it's that some of us don't have the money for a bigger house.
> Plus, those of us who have other animals who might knock over the enclosures have to take into account safety issues.  Again, if you are having to secure them then you might not have the luxury of an accident proof 'spider room' and you have to consider less elaborate enclosures.


To be honest, I don't have a big place either. It's three stories, but the upstairs, which is where my room is, is the whole attic. It's pretty big I guess, not really though. 

But it's big enough for me to build what I wanted to build. Which will not be happening. I'll get or build a small enclosures and that's that. Appropriately sized, for the size of T. Only 3x to 4x the diameter of it's legs. Which isn't big, from what I was going to build. 40" x 20" x 20" (L, W, H).



Andrea82 said:


> I don't know how you do it, honestly I don't. You seem to have a knack for finding the wrong info...
> Backwater reptiles has an extremely bad reputation concerning arachnids. So bad that even here in the Netherlands we know about them.
> I don't understand the rest of your post, and that's not because of the language.
> Why does watching people unboxing T's make you less interested in keeping them? Why build an enclosure first? It is easier to know what you'll be putting in it, knowing the requirements and applying them, then build the enclosure.
> And what is a Desert hairy??


Q. 
I don't know how you do it, honestly I don't. You seem to have a knack for finding the wrong info...
Backwater reptiles has an extremely bad reputation concerning arachnids. So bad that even here in the Netherlands we know about them.
A. Yeah, I know that. I don't know where the hell you read that I liked Backwater reptiles. I really don't. Online it's pretty obvious that they are the WORST. So..

Q. Why does watching people unboxing T's make you less interested in keeping them?
A. It doesn't.

Q. "What's a desert hairy?"
A. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=desert+hairy

Reactions: Like 4


----------



## Chris LXXIX (Jun 9, 2016)

VanessaS said:


> I don't like the idea of living in the same building as someone who thinks it's okay to watch television with a cobra on his lap. I don't want to open my door in the morning to find a rattlesnake outside my door.


Brava, Vanessa. It's amazing that a lot of people fail to realize such a logic, common sense thing. I've pointed out something like that, into a discussion involving "Hot" Arachnids once, and received an helluva (cold blood) of bias disguised under the "freedom" etc banner. Just that, seriously, who desire to find a Black Mamba on the loose at 6 in the morning on his/her roof? Not me 



VanessaS said:


> I keep thinking about the guy who works at my pet shop who recently lost his huge centipede. All I could think of was that I was glad he didn't live in my building.


 <-- EEK! I'm a recent owner of a _S.subspinipes_, she tried to '_Papillon_' (ah ah btw even in the book Scolopendra/s were mentioned if i remember well) herself out of the enclosure some days ago, but failed. Ate a cricket yesterday. 

Today checking... and she "disappeared" (i pray she's under those ten inches of substrate, leaves and cork bark ah ah) 

By far the most toxic, venom potency talking, invert i had in 25 years of keeping, so defensive that my female 'OBT' is a "rose hair" if compared. Stop, now. That's a sort of "red line" for me 

Irony, in Italy, Centipedes (all Centipedes, from native Italian as well like _S.cingulata_ to Asian ones) are *perfectly legal to own*, while an harmless _G.pulchripes_ (and the other T's) was labeled: "potentially lethal, or able to invalidate with the venom someone for life". 

Ah ah ah Italian politicians were class A Trolls in a _ante litteram_ time.


Anyway... may i ask you if you know how that Centipede escaped?

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Sceliphron (Jun 9, 2016)

I think one of the most beautiful things about this hobby is that it teaches us to view a group of animals from a _completely_ different perspective than we're used to.

We as humans have a very endothermic view of the world where there's energy and brainpower to spare so that we can frolic and explore and experience the world, and it's very easy to fall into the trap of thinking that all animals too appreciate bathing in sunlight and open fields. Then in come the tarantulas.

Here are these cold-blooded creatures that can survive in some of the harshest deserts, predator-riddled plains, and rainforests where floodwaters devour everything on the ground twice a year. You have animals that can go months without eating or drinking as the sun beats down on the hundred-something degree ground and have managed to do this for millennia. 

I am constantly in awe at the absolute _efficiency_ of these animals. They have no idea when the next meal will arrive, and maybe, just maybe, conserving that one extra calorie will give just enough energy to pounce on that beetle that ambles past the burrow entrance three months later. Hardly any movement is wasted, since their primitive homeostatic systems are at the absolute mercy of the elements. To a tarantula, every second it remains frozen in that weird half-walking pose we see all too often is another second of successfully clinging to the tense, frayed thread of life in the gauntlet of scissors and blades that is the harsh reality of Mother Nature.

These are animals that are nearly blind in many cases and have a very limited way of experiencing the world. For them, a water dish is just an ordinary depression with life-giving water in it. The walls of its tank are just oddly smooth rock faces, maybe, or the trunk of some barkless tree. In the wild, a good majority of them spend their entire lives in tiny, claustrophobic holes in the ground. Years and years without moving a single muscle, cramped inside a burrow and waiting for the right set of vibrations to emanate from the entrance. In captivity with mild temperatures, a pleasantly vacant hide, and an endless supply of food and water, I would cursorily assume that tarantulas live fairly comfortable lives.

A dog, cat, bird, or fish might appreciate space to flex its limbs and an environment that can cognitively stimulate it. The tarantula sits, waits, and outlasts.

Reactions: Like 1 | Love 1


----------



## Poec54 (Jun 9, 2016)

VanessaS said:


> - I never saw him handle any of the venomous snakes.
> - I don't think I would get any joy out of working with creatures as you describe your experience. I don't like adrenaline rushes and my heart pounding in my ears and sweat running into my eyes. I like my interactions with my creatures to be far more relaxed than that.



- There's different types of handling.  Free-handling, bare hands, is crazy with venomous snakes.  But you have to 'handle' them with a snake stick (golf club with a hook welded on the end) to move them out of their cage for cleaning/watering.  With large, fast snakes like cobras, that means hooking the front part of their body and holding it's tail with the other hand, so you can control it.  Otherwise it could come up the stick at you. 

To give them shots (Ivermectin for parasites), remove old eye caps, etc, you also have to 'handle' them, but in a specific way: Lifting up and holding the very end of a cobra's tail in one hand, while it's head is on the ground, you can steer their head into a clear plastic fluorescent light protector (the kind they use in warehouses).  Once it's head and neck are in there, you grab the snake, holding it at the juncture of the snake and tube.  The snake is stuck and temporarily harmless; it can't come out, can't turn around.  If you have a hole cut in the side of the tube, you can remove eye caps with tweezers. 

I've seen people grab venomous snakes behind their head, and that's _highly _dangerous.  The snake twists and turns trying get to free, and also tries to get a fang in your finger.  To me, it's unnecessary and not worth the risk.  There are better ways to work with snakes.

Are any of these techniques something the average person can do?  No. 

- Right, these are not animals the vast majority of people should ever own.  California banned venomous reptiles decades ago, and Florida's training requirement has effectively stopped new people from getting the snakes.  For the few that are responsible owners, they can't work with them when tired, distracted, or sick.  You have to be focused and alert.  It's a commitment.  But there's a lot of other activities that are dangerous, that you should be focused and alert for.  The huge number of people killed in car accidents every year is something we seem to accept.  Sometimes what we're most afraid of is the least likely to harm us.

Reactions: Like 2 | Dislike 1


----------



## Chris LXXIX (Jun 9, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> Sometimes what we're most afraid of is the least likely to harm us.


Yeah but there's a thing to say. A _Theraphosidae _(an high strung OW, you name one from a 'Pokie' to 'OBT') or a badass venom fast as hell Centipede, if both on the loose (let's assume in someone's room) wouldn't exactly chase someone nor they will spend their day seeking for that "task". 
They will end probably in some dark corner or what else (i assume, because i've never had an escape so far).

A Black Mamba or a O Hanna (for instance, on the loose as well) on the other hand, would literally hunt down everything that moves.


----------



## Vanessa (Jun 9, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> Anyway... may i ask you if you know how that Centipede escaped?


I don't know. But the one time he had them in the pet shop when I was getting crickets - he had them out handling them. He just took them out with the tongs and they were running around on his arm.
I took two big steps back, that's for sure. I didn't want him flinging it at me if it bit him.
He had two that he was handling - a blue one and an orange one. I thought he was crazy and I told him that. Then a couple of weeks later he had lost the big one. I don't even know if he ever found it.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


----------



## Chris LXXIX (Jun 9, 2016)

VanessaS said:


> I don't know. But the one time he had them in the pet shop when I was getting crickets - he had them out handling them. He just took them out with the tongs and they were running around on his arm.
> I took two big steps back, that's for sure. I didn't want him flinging it at me if it bit him.
> He had two that he was handling - a blue one and an orange one. I thought he was crazy and I told him that. Then a couple of weeks later he had lost the big one. I don't even know if he ever found it.


That's too bad. If he's into handling and the Centipede escaped for that, he should consider himself lucky that didn't get envenomated, because he asked for such scenario.

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## Poec54 (Jun 9, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> A Black Mamba or a O Hanna (for instance, on the loose as well) on the other hand, would literally hunt down everything that moves.



Only if you've gotten too close in the first place.  Other than that, they're not looking for trouble with humans.  Their focus is on what keeps the species going: food and reproduction.  I had a snake friend in Tampa who bred both of those species.  He kept his whole collection (which was extensive) in two bedrooms (one being the room he slept in), and the cages weren't large.  Tight space to work in.  He did that for many years without incident.


----------



## BobBarley (Jun 9, 2016)

Roy1982 said:


> Yeah.. What the hell do you guys know. All you guys do is put your T's in cups, and shit. By the time I get a chance to get a cup and get my T here, all the T's will be gone.
> 
> LMAO !!!!
> 
> ...


Almost every species of t can be kept at room temp.  If you're comfortable, they are. (unless you live in a 95 degree house or something like that)  Humidity is different for each species.  The biggest mistake people make is looking at caresheets.  Don't even read them.  Anything that gives you a specific humidity for a t is wrong.  Search up the care requirements of a certain species on Arachnoboards, and more often than not, you'll get some detailed answers.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


----------



## Chris LXXIX (Jun 9, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> Only if you've gotten too close in the first place.  Other than that, they're not looking for trouble with humans.  Their focus is on what keeps the species going: food and reproduction.  I had a snake friend in Tampa who bred both of those species.  He kept his whole collection (which was extensive) in two bedrooms (one being the room he slept in), and the cages weren't large.  Tight space to work in.  He did that for many years without incident.


Yes, but i was talking about a Mamba (example) on the loose. Completely out of his/her cage, not well secured inside... on the loose in my room, seriously... ? 

Of course the snake will enter in contact with me, and fast, i assume. Or am i wrong?

Will strike down in a second one of my cats, something that a Centipede, or that 'Pokie' high on the wall, or in the corner, no matter, wouldn't do at all.

I doubt that a King Cobra, or a Mamba, once out and out of control, would crawl scared under the bed or furnitures seeking for a safe refuge.
They will attack. That's how i imagine those animals behavior on such situations.

Could be wrong of course but, even if an escape never happened to me, trust me that the cold blood i would have around 'Baboon' or Asian T's/Inverts on the loose, would turn in a millisecond into "jump out of the window" in the case of a Black Mamba :-s

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## TownesVanZandt (Jun 9, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> Yes, but i was talking about a Mamba (example) on the loose. Completely out of his/her cage, not well secured inside... on the loose in my room, seriously... ?


If you had a mamba on the loose in your room, my friend, I bet you would have made "Pippo" Inzaghi from his Juventus days seem slow as a turtle running out of there

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Chris LXXIX (Jun 9, 2016)

TownesVanZandt said:


> If you had a mamba on the loose in your room, my friend, I bet you would have made "Pippo" Inzaghi from his Juventus days seem slow as a turtle running out of there


Damn still today he's IMO the unbeated man when it comes to play striking fast in the last meters, dancing on the offside line :-s

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## TownesVanZandt (Jun 9, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> Damn still today he's IMO the unbeated man when it comes to play striking fast in the last meters, dancing on the offside line :-s


Even today, with 42 years, I believe he would have done better up front for Italy than Graziano Pellé or Ciro Immobile!

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Chris LXXIX (Jun 9, 2016)

TownesVanZandt said:


> Even today, with 42 years, I believe he would have done better up front for Italy than Graziano Pellé or Ciro Immobile!


No doubts. This team of today is laughable :-s


----------



## Vanessa (Jun 9, 2016)

Roy1982 said:


> Since everyone here is experienced, I think instead of me going off to learn about how to care for a tarantula, or scorpion, maybe it would be best if you guys spoke up. Instead of me watching a video on YouTube from other people.


Not all YouTube videos are created equal. Some of them are pretty good, pretty accurate, and made by people who respect tarantulas and are respected in the hobby. Unfortunately, you have to weed through all the idiots out there who have them for all the wrong reasons and make stupid videos thinking they're going to get famous and have their own reality television show or something.
There are a lot of wonderful species out there that are extremely hardy for new comers. If you are only interested in having a couple who can go into your custom enclosures immediately - I would be on the lookout for juveniles or adults. I started out in the hobby with adults only. It is expensive, but they are out of the delicate spiderling stage at that point and can just be placed in their permanent homes.
There are dozens of posts here which list all the wonderful species that are more than appropriate for people just entering the hobby. You'll find countless photos of people's collections.  Go through those and get a list ready of the species that you're interested in.  Then ask about them or search the forum for more husbandry posts for those spiders specifically.
You did come on pretty strong in the beginning. Combine that with the fact that there are some equally strong active members here and it is a mess waiting to happen. I'm sure that you have lots to offer this forum if you stick around and get a feel for it.
Getting some people on the defensive on this forum is easier than getting a threat pose from an OBT by poking it with a pencil.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 2


----------



## Chris LXXIX (Jun 9, 2016)

VanessaS said:


> Getting some people on the defensive on this forum is easier than getting a threat pose from an OBT by poking it with a pencil.


Ah ah <3

Reactions: Agree 1 | Love 1


----------



## Tenevanica (Jun 9, 2016)

I must ask @Roy1982, what tarantula species you have in mind? As stated before, there is no one-size-fits-all approach to keeping T's. Each one has its own requirements, but most of the beginner species require dry substrate, low-moderate humidity, and room temperature.

Also, _Hadrus arizonensis _(Desert Hairy) is a good beginner scorpion from what I know, so good choice there!

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Venom1080 (Jun 9, 2016)

Roy1982 said:


> Still here. I'll all ears. I would like to hear whatever anyone has to tell me, or explain to me.


alright, care sheets are crap. dont listen to them. humidity levels are crap. dont go chasing off after that magic number, idont own any hydrometers or temp gauges and never plan to as they are unneeded and a waste of money. temps 70-80 are perfect. anything higher up to 95f is ok but unnecessary. good beginner spiders generally come from the new world. particularly Mexico and Chile. Ts like cages they can feel secure in, a T can settle in a giant cage, (anything over a 20 gallon) but its a waste of space and money. they feel secure in small dark hides that arent very big but allow them to move a a bit. not cramped but small. a good substrate would be coco fiber(eco earth), peat moss, or plain topsoil.(without any additives) Ts can be very different, a giant Poecilotheria living in a tree has different requirements than a ground dwelling G. porteri. generally, all Ts require a water dish, a hide, 70-80 temps, no heat mats or heat lamps, food depends on the size of the spider. a spiderling, or "sling" requires small food items frequently, i feed my slings 2-5 times a week. a juvi, sub adult and adult require larger food items, but much less frequently. most care is common sense, but as Viper says, common sense aint common! a acrlic lid is best if the Ts going in a tank. basically, Ts sometimes have difficulty getting off screen lids when climbing, their claws get hooked and they dangle and sometimes lose a leg. the next step is to pick out your first spider so we can give you specific care. i recommend getting a juvi sub adult, or adult as your first so you dont have to wait for growth so much. i recommend genus Brachypelma, Grammostola, Avicularia, Euathlus, Chomatopelma, Aphonopelma. good luck picking just one!

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


----------



## viper69 (Jun 9, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> Sometimes what we're most afraid of is the least likely to harm us.


So very true.


----------



## Roy1982 (Jun 9, 2016)

BobBarley said:


> Almost every species of t can be kept at room temp.  If you're comfortable, they are. (unless you live in a 95 degree house or something like that)  Humidity is different for each species.  The biggest mistake people make is looking at caresheets.  Don't even read them.  Anything that gives you a specific humidity for a t is wrong.  Search up the care requirements of a certain species on Arachnoboards, and more often than not, you'll get some detailed answers.


That's what I heard.



Venom1080 said:


> alright, care sheets are crap. dont listen to them. humidity levels are crap. don't go chasing off after that magic number, idont own any hydrometers or temp gauges and never plan to as they are unneeded and a waste of money. temps 70-80 are perfect. anything higher up to 95f is ok but unnecessary. good beginner spiders generally come from the new world. particularly Mexico and Chile. Ts like cages they can feel secure in, a T can settle in a giant cage, (anything over a 20 gallon) but its a waste of space and money. they feel secure in small dark hides that arent very big but allow them to move a bit. not cramped but small. a good substrate would be coco fiber(eco earth), peat moss, or plain topsoil.(without any additives) Ts can be very different, a giant Poecilotheria living in a tree has different requirements than a ground dwelling G. porteri. generally, all Ts require a water dish, a hide, 70-80 temps, no heat mats or heat lamps, food depends on the size of the spider. a spiderling, or "sling" requires small food items frequently, i feed my slings 2-5 times a week. a juvi, sub adult and adult require larger food items, but much less frequently. most care is common sense, but as Viper says, common sense aint common! a acrylic lid is best if the Ts going in a tank. basically, Ts sometimes have difficulty getting off screen lids when climbing, their claws get hooked and they dangle and sometimes lose a leg. the next step is to pick out your first spider so we can give you specific care. i recommend getting a juvi sub adult, or adult as your first so you don't have to wait for growth so much. i recommend genus Brachypelma, Grammostola, Avicularia, Euathlus, Chomatopelma, Aphonopelma. good luck picking just one!


01. Don't look at care sheets. Got it.
02. Don't chase numbers. Don't buy a Arduino and regulate the temp and humidity with arduino automated systems. Got it.
03. Don't get a Hydrometer, thermometer. I will. Just because I wanna know what the humidity is and temp inside the box. But that doesn't mean I'm going to chase after numbers. I just wanna make sure the numbers are reasonable.
04. Temperatures ranging between 70-80 are perfect. Got it.
05. Enclosure 2x -3x the leg span of the T is good. Not too big of a an enclosure, because they like to feel secure. Got it.
06. 95°F is alright, but unnecessary. That's too hot, if it gets there, I'll try to bring it down.
07. Bigger cage, enclosure is alright, but it's a waste of money. They like to feel secure, and don't need anything larger than 2x - 3x their leg span.
08. Shallow water dish. half log or similar hiding place. No heat mats or heat lamps, unless it's a Scorpion. 
09. I'll feed him only about 2 times a week, don't want to spoil him. Crickets, meal worms, etc.
10. Screens are hard sometimes for the Tarantula to get off, so No screens. Got it.
11. Goliath Birdeater. That's what I might go with. (LINK : https://goo.gl/7yNjMQ) Might be, but there's other bird eaters too, so it doesn't have to be that one.
According to Jamie, it's a female, and 2", so.. maybe not.. Beautiful T though. It's a female, so.. Idk.. might, or might not.

How about this one.. https://goo.gl/IyzA4o Juvie..? He's 1.5" - 2.0", according to Jamie.

Same Tarantula that was in Jungle 2 Jungle (1997)... Lol.

12. I also might be going with a Scorpion too. Emperor Scorpion. Heat lamp or Mat, Sand, they like to burrow. I watched a couple care videos. It's not that hard, just like the Tarantula. But they do need heat mats, etc. From what I heard. A Temp Controller & heat mat. Need to add moisture to the substrate daily, because obviously the heat mat is going to dry out the sand & substrate combo. etc. etc. etc.
13. ...



VanessaS said:


> Not all YouTube videos are created equal. Some of them are pretty good, pretty accurate, and made by people who respect tarantulas and are respected in the hobby. Unfortunately, you have to weed through all the idiots out there who have them for all the wrong reasons and make stupid videos thinking they're going to get famous and have their own reality television show or something.
> There are a lot of wonderful species out there that are extremely hardy for new comers. If you are only interested in having a couple who can go into your custom enclosures immediately - I would be on the lookout for juveniles or adults. I started out in the hobby with adults only. It is expensive, but they are out of the delicate spiderling stage at that point and can just be placed in their permanent homes.
> There are dozens of posts here which list all the wonderful species that are more than appropriate for people just entering the hobby. You'll find countless photos of people's collections.  Go through those and get a list ready of the species that you're interested in.  Then ask about them or search the forum for more husbandry posts for those spiders specifically.
> You did come on pretty strong in the beginning. Combine that with the fact that there are some equally strong active members here and it is a mess waiting to happen. I'm sure that you have lots to offer this forum if you stick around and get a feel for it.
> Getting some people on the defensive on this forum is easier than getting a threat pose from an OBT by poking it with a pencil.


Totally.



Tenevanica said:


> I must ask @Roy1982, what tarantula species you have in mind? As stated before, there is no one-size-fits-all approach to keeping T's. Each one has its own requirements, but most of the beginner species require dry substrate, low-moderate humidity, and room temperature.
> 
> Also, _Hadrus arizonensis _(Desert Hairy) is a good beginner scorpion from what I know, so good choice there!


Goliath Birdeater, 
Emperor Scorpion, Desert Hairies 99% of the time sting their prey, they burrow, and they are known to be aggressive and defensive. Doesn't mean I'm not going to get one also, but.. I might want to go with a Emperor Scorpion.

I have more info in a reply to someone else, it has links and stuff. look back and you'll find it. Two posts up.


----------



## Tenevanica (Jun 9, 2016)

Roy1982 said:


> Goliath Birdeater,
> Emperor Scorpion, Desert Hairies 99% of the time sting their prey, they burrow, and they are known to be aggressive and defensive. Doesn't mean I'm not going to get one also, but.. I might want to go with a Emperor Scorpion.
> 
> I have more info in a reply to someone else, it has links and stuff. look back and you'll find it.


May I suggest you get a _Lasyodora parahybana? Theraphosa blondi _(goliath birdeater) is an INCREDIBLY difficult species to care for. This species does need high humidity, a very specific setup, and they frequently have molting issues. DO NOT start with _T. blondi_. You will more than likely kill it.

I mentioned earlier _L. parahybana _(salmon pink birdeater, but it's still not best to use common names) are suitable for beginners, and get nearly as large. A 10" leg span wouldn't be uncommon in _L. parahybana, _and they're much better suited to the beginner.

Also, there are too many birdeaters. It gets confusing, so we use scientific names on these boards. As for the scorpions, both _H. arizonensis, _and _P. imperator_ are good beginner species.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Vanessa (Jun 9, 2016)

Okay, so the species that you linked to is a Nhandu chromatus, or N. chromatus.  It is best to make reference to their scientific name because the term 'Birdeater' is applied to many species and the common name of Goliath Birdeater is reserved for the Theraphosa genus.
N. chromatus is a bit more of an intermediate species. They are a bit more defensive and their hairs are very irritating. I don't have any of the genus, so I will leave it to others who do to answer specific questions about them.
Males generally live a lot shorter than females do. Most people will opt for the female.

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## Tenevanica (Jun 9, 2016)

VanessaS said:


> Okay, so the species that you linked to is a Nhandu chromatus, or N. chromatus.  It is best to make reference to their scientific name because the term 'Birdeater' is applied to many species and the common name of Goliath Birdeater is reserved for the Theraphosa genus.
> N. chromatus is a bit more of an intermediate species. They are a bit more defensive and their hairs are very irritating. I don't have any of the genus, so I will leave it to others who do to answer specific questions about them.
> Males generally live a lot shorter than females do. Most people will opt for the female.


Did he? I didn't even see the link. God, common names are confusing as hell! 

To the OP, say it with me: _Lasiodora - parahybana. Lasiodora - parahybana._

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Roy1982 (Jun 9, 2016)

Tenevanica said:


> May I suggest you get a _Lasyodora parahybana? Theraphosa blondi _(goliath birdeater) is an INCREDIBLY difficult species to care for. This species does need high humidity, a very specific setup, and they frequently have molting issues. DO NOT start with _T. blondi_. You will more than likely kill it.
> 
> I mentioned earlier _L. parahybana _(salmon pink birdeater, but it's still not best to use common names) are suitable for beginners, and get nearly as large. A 10" leg span wouldn't be uncommon in _L. parahybana, _and they're much better suited to the beginner.
> 
> Also, there are too many birdeaters. It gets confusing, so we use scientific names on these boards. As for the scorpions, both _H. arizonensis, _and _P. imperator_ are good beginner species.


Like this..?
https://jamiestarantulas.com/lasiodora-parahybana-salmon-pink-bird-eater-3-4-male-552/







He's 4" in size already.. how long is he going to live for? Get's up to 8" leg span.



VanessaS said:


> Okay, so the species that you linked to is a Nhandu chromatus, or N. chromatus.  It is best to make reference to their scientific name because the term 'Birdeater' is applied to many species and the common name of Goliath Birdeater is reserved for the Theraphosa genus.
> N. chromatus is a bit more of an intermediate species. They are a bit more defensive and their hairs are very irritating. I don't have any of the genus, so I will leave it to others who do to answer specific questions about them.
> Males generally live a lot shorter than females do. Most people will opt for the female.


I will use Scientific names + (Common name, if available) from now on.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Tenevanica (Jun 9, 2016)

Roy1982 said:


> Like this..?
> https://jamiestarantulas.com/lasiodora-parahybana-salmon-pink-bird-eater-3-4-male-552/
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, that's the species! Males don't live very long. He'll mature in a year or so, and likely only live a year after that. Get a female if you can.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Roy1982 (Jun 9, 2016)

Tenevanica said:


> Did he? I didn't even see the link. God, common names are confusing as hell!
> 
> To the OP, say it with me: _Lasiodora - parahybana. Lasiodora - parahybana._


Can't say it. But I'll use Scientific names + (common name, if available) from now on.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Vanessa (Jun 9, 2016)

Is that spider dead in that video? I have no sound at work.


----------



## Tenevanica (Jun 9, 2016)

Slings are cheaper, and you can buy a group of them to try to buy a female. This is a fast growing species though, so the wait for them to grow shouldn't be long.

Slings:
https://jamiestarantulas.com/lasiod.../?search=lasiodora%20parahybana&description=1
https://fearnottarantulas.com/produ...mon-pink-birdeater-2-5-3-unsexed-spiderlings/

Some good info:
https://fearnottarantulas.com/lasiodora-difficilis-brazilian-fire-red-birdeater/

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Roy1982 (Jun 9, 2016)

Live up to 40+ years..?

Aphonopelma Chalcodes







http://arachnoboards.com/threads/top-ten-theraphosids-longest-lived.181759/


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aphonopelma_chalcodes


----------



## Tenevanica (Jun 9, 2016)

Roy1982 said:


> Live up to 40+ years.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Females of certain species can live 40+ years. Female spiders in the genera _Aphonopelma, Brachypelma, _and _Grammostola _can on occasion live that long. Not all species are created equal.

If you wanted to get one of those species, I'd applaud it. They are great choices for the newbie!


----------



## Vanessa (Jun 9, 2016)

Roy1982 said:


> Live up to 40+ years.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Very slow growers. You aren't patient enough to deal with spiderlings right now.  
If you can get an adult, I would go for it, but they grow extremely slowly.

If you want someone who grows faster then I would stick to the Lasiodora genus as was suggested before. They grow much faster.  Jamie's has the parahybana and the difficilis.  There is more info out there on the parahybana, but both will be kept very similarly.  I have a 1/4" L. difficilis.


----------



## Roy1982 (Jun 9, 2016)

VanessaS said:


> Is that spider dead in that video? I have no sound at work.


He is.. I'm sorry. I didn't see that. I'll change the video.


----------



## Vanessa (Jun 9, 2016)

Roy1982 said:


> He is.. I'm sorry. I didn't see that. I'll change the video.


It's just that they seemed extremely docile in that video. If it were alive - he wouldn't be handling it like that... or handling it at all.


----------



## Roy1982 (Jun 9, 2016)

Tenevanica said:


> Slings are cheaper, and you can buy a group of them to try to buy a female. This is a fast growing species though, so the wait for them to grow shouldn't be long.
> 
> Slings:
> https://jamiestarantulas.com/lasiodora-parahybana-salmon-pink-birdeater-3-4-1/?search=lasiodora%20parahybana&description=1
> ...


Understood. I will buy a baby, and shoot for a female as well by buying unsexed Tarantulas.


1 Month Ago.. Apr 28, 2016


----------



## Venom1080 (Jun 9, 2016)

Roy1982 said:


> 01. Don't look at care sheets. Got it.
> 02. Don't chase numbers. Don't buy a Arduino and regulate the temp and humidity with arduino automated systems. Got it.
> 03. Don't get a Hydrometer, thermometer. I will. Just because I wanna know what the humidity is and temp inside the box. But that doesn't mean I'm going to chase after numbers. I just wanna make sure the numbers are reasonable.
> 04. Temperatures ranging between 70-80 are perfect. Got it.
> ...


if its comfortable for you, its fine for the spider. i keep one temp gauge in my room just to see how warm it is at certain times. it broke a couple months ago and ive been fine without it. goliath birdeater, or genus theraphosa, is not a very good beginner spider. the one in the pic is a Nhandu chromatus. a ok beginner spider for the careful first time owner. one of the best looking Ts out there as well. i keep a H. spinifer (giant asian forest scorpion), they are kept identical to the emperor. no heat pads. just eco earth for burrowing, a hide, and full water bowl. dont bother with sand for a emperor, thats for desert species, not rain forest ones. a space heater is a great replacement for a heat pad with a scorpion.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Roy1982 (Jun 9, 2016)

Venom1080 said:


> if its comfortable for you, its fine for the spider. i keep one temp gauge in my room just to see how warm it is at certain times. it broke a couple months ago and ive been fine without it. goliath birdeater, or genus theraphosa, is not a very good beginner spider. the one in the pic is a Nhandu chromatus. a ok beginner spider for the careful first time owner. one of the best looking Ts out there as well. i keep a H. spinifer (giant asian forest scorpion), they are kept identical to the emperor. no heat pads. just eco earth for burrowing, a hide, and full water bowl. dont bother with sand for a emperor, thats for desert species, not rain forest ones. a space heater is a great replacement for a heat pad with a scorpion.


If you're comfortable, then so is the T. That's what I heard from information I've read online.

I was thinking about getting the Giant Forest Scorpion from Underground Reptiles.

No heat pads, just eco earth for burrowing, a hiding place, and full shallow water bowl. Don't bother witht he sand, that's for scorpions like the desert hairy, etc. Got it.

I will purchase digital humidity and temp gauges for the enclosure. I also have and use a Accurite Humidity and temp in front of my PC.

Swearing isn't allowed, Got it & Acknowledged.



VanessaS said:


> It's just that they seemed extremely docile in that video. If it were alive - he wouldn't be handling it like that... or handling it at all.


I'm going to take an educated guess, and say yes, it was dead, or near dead. I honestly didn't see the rest of the video, the video was changed in the post to the following video.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Vanessa (Jun 9, 2016)

Tenevanica said:


> Slings are cheaper, and you can buy a group of them to try to buy a female. This is a fast growing species though, so the wait for them to grow shouldn't be long.
> 
> Some good info:
> https://fearnottarantulas.com/lasiodora-difficilis-brazilian-fire-red-birdeater/


They refer to the L. parahybana as a 'gentle giant' and that 'They are more tolerant and social than most species.'
That isn't what I have heard about them. They make them sound like a G. pulchripes. Maybe they cut and pasted that description from the G. pulchripes page?
I never got the impression that they were 'gentle giants'.  Am I wrong?

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Chris LXXIX (Jun 9, 2016)

VanessaS said:


> I never got the impression that they were 'gentle giants'. Am I wrong?


Had a couple in the past, in general they were pretty calm, always hungry like Obelix here

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Vanessa (Jun 9, 2016)

What about my L. difficilis? All the reading I have done has called them bold and defensive. Not many people talk about them as adults.
Is their temperament similar to the L. parahybana?

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Chris LXXIX (Jun 9, 2016)

VanessaS said:


> What about my L. difficilis? All the reading I have done has called them bold and defensive. Not many people talk about them as adults.
> Is their temperament similar to the L. parahybana?


I have never had one, as far as i know the care and temperament (that vary from specimen to specimen as you know) is the same more or less but could be wrong.
Those were less diffused here compared to _L.parahybana_, a classic sometimes hated :-(
that lived her golden era here in Italy after the Ban of 2003 where all of a sudden T's disappeared, and people would had killed for one of those

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Poec54 (Jun 9, 2016)

VanessaS said:


> What about my L. difficilis? All the reading I have done has called them bold and defensive. Not many people talk about them as adults.
> Is their temperament similar to the L. parahybana?



MY adult LD female isn't defensive at all.

Reactions: Love 1


----------



## Vanessa (Jun 9, 2016)

Okay. I am always going to be on my guard with them, but maybe I will get lucky and they might turn out to be a bit more of a 'gentle giant' than 'bold and defensive'.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Venom1080 (Jun 9, 2016)

Roy1982 said:


> If you're comfortable, then so is the T. That's what I heard from information I've read online.
> 
> I was thinking about getting the Giant Forest Scorpion from Underground Reptiles.
> 
> ...


i wouldnt recommend buying any arachnid from reptile dealers. reptile dealers are slightly better than pet stores when it comes to inverts. try to fins a arachnid dealer. honestly, dont bother with the gauges, 100% not needed and most are crap anyway.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Roy1982 (Jun 9, 2016)

Venom1080 said:


> i wouldnt recommend buying any arachnid from reptile dealers. reptile dealers are slightly better than pet stores when it comes to inverts. try to fins a arachnid dealer. honestly, dont bother with the gauges, 100% not needed and most are crap anyway.


So don't get it from Underground Reptiles.. But if I wanted I could get the Forest Scorpion from them.

So probably either Fear Not Tarantulas, or Jamies. Any other positive reputable dealers anyone would recommend?

Jamie has been dealing with things like Tarantula's since she was young, part of her life story is on her website.

I've never heard of Fear Not Tarantulas until today, so I'm not too familiar with them.. yet.

Also, any other positive reputable places for Scorpions?

Uploaded June 9th 2016, only a few hours ago. Fear Not Tarantula's.


----------



## Blackout14 (Jun 9, 2016)

Read reviews on YouTube underground reptiles has a lot of bad ones and they seem not to do anything after they arrive dead.  Pet center seems to be a good one as well as Jamie's and their are a lot of vendors on here as well

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Venom1080 (Jun 9, 2016)

Roy1982 said:


> So don't get it from Underground Reptiles.. But if I wanted I could get the Forest Scorpion from them.
> 
> So probably either Fear Not Tarantulas, or Jamies. Any other positive reputable dealers anyone would recommend?
> 
> ...


im in canada, my knowledge of US dealers is limited. jamies is very reputable. FNT ive never heard of till recently, id check out the prices on both and pick the lower price. also, swiftsinverts, ken the bug guy and PetCenter usa ive heard are pretty good.

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## Vanessa (Jun 9, 2016)

Roy1982 said:


> Any other positive reputable dealers anyone would recommend?


The first place I would look is in the classified section here. There are some good folks doing some breeding on this forum and I haven't heard a bad review of anyone yet.
http://arachnoboards.com/forums/for-sale-trade-want-to-buy.24/

Reactions: Agree 1 | Award 2


----------



## Poec54 (Jun 9, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> Yes, but i was talking about a Mamba (example) on the loose. Completely out of his/her cage, not well secured inside... on the loose in my room...Of course the snake will enter in contact with me, and fast, i assume. Or am i wrong?
> 
> I doubt that a King Cobra, or a Mamba, once out and out of control, would crawl scared under the bed or furnitures seeking for a safe refuge.
> They will attack. That's how i imagine those animals behavior on such situations.



My friend wouldn't have been able to work with his kings and black mambas in small cages in a small room if they were like you imagine.  He had to transfer them to other cages when he cleaned the ones they were in (no dividers).  He fed his snakes often, and was regularly opening their cages for that and cleaning.  They would have preferred to crawl under his bed if they had the chance, rather than go on the offensive, or else he wouldn't have been able to control them in such tight spaces (one bedroom was very small).  Remember, he had to get _two_ snakes in those cages for breeding, then separate them, and later take the eggs away from the females.  He did it without incident, but it's not something I'd want to do, and I kept my collection in a 2 car garage, so I had a lot more room to manoeuver. 

Another friend of mine had some tiger snakes, and finally was able to get an adult taipan. He unpacked it when I was there.  He had a walk-in cage (like a shower stall), opened the wooden crate, unbagged the snake and let it out, all while he was standing in the cage with it.  The snake didn't react to him while he stood there.  This _was not_ like what I thought would happen, based on what I had heard and read about them being defensive.  I don't think a wet bite from an adult taipan is survivable without serum (don't remember which serums he had on hand, although he did live within a half hour's drive from George van Horn, the extractor who had _a lot_ of serums). 

Other than venom extraction, the most dangerous time working with elapids is feeding in warm temps.


----------



## Tenevanica (Jun 9, 2016)

Roy1982 said:


> So don't get it from Underground Reptiles.. But if I wanted I could get the Forest Scorpion from them.
> 
> So probably either Fear Not Tarantulas, or Jamies. Any other positive reputable dealers anyone would recommend?
> 
> ...


http://shop.bugsincyberspace.com/Brazilian-Salmon-Pink-bic0015.htm
http://shop.bugsincyberspace.com/Desert-Hairy-Scorpion-bic756.htm

Bugsincyberspace is a very reputable dealer. Their arachnid selection is rather limited, but they do have some scorpions (and the T you're looking for ) I would order from the if I were you. Their slings are tiny, but _L. parahybana _is a fast grower.

http://www.swiftinverts.com/
http://www.kenthebugguy.com/

Both of those two are good as well ^^


----------



## cold blood (Jun 9, 2016)

VanessaS said:


> Okay, so the species that you linked to is a Nhandu chromatus, or N. chromatus.  It is best to make reference to their scientific name because the term 'Birdeater' is applied to many species and the common name of Goliath Birdeater is reserved for the Theraphosa genus.
> N. chromatus is a bit more of an intermediate species. They are a bit more defensive and their hairs are very irritating. I don't have any of the genus, so I will leave it to others who do to answer specific questions about them.
> Males generally live a lot shorter than females do. Most people will opt for the female.


While I would not say they are an ideal first, I certainly don't think they're too far off, pretty much in line with Lasiodoras being suggested, except they get a tad smaller and look *worlds* *better*.   I've never really had issues with any of my chromatus, and I've raised quite a few and still have 5.   I would also opt for a female or get several slings, as they do grow fast (can be bought very cheaply) and are a pleasure to raise from slings as those colors eventually come in.    I have found males to be generally more skittish.

They do have fantastic appetites, even when very small.

Bad hairs yes, but the other members of the genus seem to be far more inclined to flick than chromatus.

Yes, hate the "birdeater" term, basically the term just means a South American terrestrial that gets over 6"...there are possibly hundreds of ts that fall into this category, basically making the term so broad that its all but meaningless to people that know about ts.



Roy1982 said:


> If you're comfortable, then so is the T. That's what I heard from information I've read online.
> 
> I will purchase digital humidity and temp gauges for the enclosure. I also have and use a Accurite Humidity and temp in front of my PC.


That if you're comfortable line doesn't work across the board...it does with most of the better beginner species, but the tropical ones or most OW do not fare as well when kept cool and chromatus is one of those that will prefer a little warmer temps, like 70 minimum, preferably 75-80.   Many of the beginners can easily tolerate temps into the low to mid 60's for night temps as adults.    But any sling will also need to be kept a little warmer.

There is no reason to know the humidity, concentrate more on the moisture in the substrate than the moisture in the air.  In 15 years, living in a place where humidity fluctuates wildly season to season, I've never seen a reason to know the actual humidity number or own a hygrometer (a donation to the store would be a better use of the funds IMO)...even *if* a pet store hygrometer was giving accurate info...which it won't be doing anyway



Venom1080 said:


> i wouldnt recommend buying any arachnid from reptile dealers. reptile dealers are slightly better than pet stores when it comes to inverts. try to fins a arachnid dealer. honestly, dont bother with the gauges, 100% not needed and most are crap anyway.


+1

With the *plethora* of arachnid dealers available, I never understand why people shop for them at reptile stores...reptile stores are for buying reptiles, arachnid stores are for buying arachnids.

I wouldn't go to the fish store to see if they had birds for sale, and fish and birds are about as relatable as tarantulas are to reptiles  Reptile stores are notorious for 1. selling mis-identified spiders 2.  selling unsexed spiders as sexed females  3. dealing primarily in wild caught specimens, often not in the best shape 4. poor shipping practices, as its different to ship a t than a reptile.

Like Vanessa said, just go to the classifieds here, they have a "premium" section, which is the larger dealers, and the section just below that is for smaller dealers, private sellers and breeders.   Both sections also have a correlating section for reviews, so you don't make an obvious purchasing mistake and can shop with confidence.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 4 | Love 1


----------



## saturnthegrey (Jun 9, 2016)

I've had to downsize a few of my enclosures because they were TOO big. I was having trouble getting the smaller ones to eat because they stick to their burrows and never ventured far enough to come across the crickets I put in there. They still have note than enough space but they are much smaller. but now they are automatically aware of any prey items in their enclosure. My albo slings almost never come out of their burrows (when I'm around) so if i kept them in too large of an enclosure I doubt they would ever find any food unless it wandered into their home (Which also would not happen because most of the time I prekill for them.) And even if I put a dead item next to the mouth of their burrow they wouldn't feel as comfortable coming up for it if the enclosure was very large. 
Just my novice opinion/experience but its been easier since the change to smaller enclosures

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## Andrea82 (Jun 10, 2016)

Another species you could look into is Acanthoscurria geniculata. Very easy to keep, looks absolutely stunning, and is a voracious eater. Also gets pretty big and is a fairly fast grower. Also a great display tarantula. 
Like others said, look into the the classified section here, lots of great dealers. Don't buy from reptile breeders.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Roy1982 (Jun 10, 2016)

Tenevanica said:


> http://shop.bugsincyberspace.com/Brazilian-Salmon-Pink-bic0015.htm
> http://shop.bugsincyberspace.com/Desert-Hairy-Scorpion-bic756.htm
> 
> Bugsincyberspace is a very reputable dealer. Their arachnid selection is rather limited, but they do have some scorpions (and the T you're looking for ) I would order from the if I were you. Their slings are tiny, but _L. parahybana _is a fast grower.
> ...


Thanks so much, I'll take a look at the sites you've listed. 



Andrea82 said:


> Another species you could look into is Acanthoscurria geniculata. Very easy to keep, looks absolutely stunning, and is a voracious eater. Also gets pretty big and is a fairly fast grower. Also a great display tarantula.
> Like others said, look into the the classified section here, lots of great dealers. Don't buy from reptile breeders.


That's a nice looking one too. Lives for a pretty long time, thanks.


----------



## Tenevanica (Jun 10, 2016)

Roy1982 said:


> That's a nice looking one too. Lives for a pretty long time, thanks.


Every T lives a really long time if you end up with a female

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


----------



## Roy1982 (Jun 11, 2016)

I don't know how helpful this is going to be, but here's what I did today for the Forum.

*Vials, Enclosures, Containers, Cases, Tanks (USA)*

http://arachnoboards.com/threads/vials-enclosures-containers-cases-tanks-usa.284269/


Thanks for all the help, Great information, and awesome pictures.

@Tenevanica , @Andrea82 , @cold blood , @Poec54 , @VanessaS , @Venom1080 , @Chris LXXIX , @Blackout14 , @TownesVanZandt , @viper69 , @Sceliphron , @BobBarley , @beaker41 , @magicmed , @Trenor , @Abyss , @Ryuti , @vespers , @Haksilence , @Vince Zito , @Phormic28

Reactions: Like 4 | Helpful 1 | Love 1 | Award 2


----------



## Vanessa (Jun 11, 2016)

Roy1982 said:


> I don't know how helpful this is going to be, but here's what I did today for the Forum.
> 
> *Vials, Enclosures, Containers, Cases, Tanks (USA)*
> 
> http://arachnoboards.com/threads/vials-enclosures-containers-cases-tanks-usa.284269/


Wow, you have been busy! I think that is awesome, maybe someone will sticky it? I'm not going to read through the whole thing because I am in Canada and probably can't get most of the stuff, but I bet that a lot of people will benefit from your hard work.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Venom1080 (Jun 11, 2016)

Roy1982 said:


> I don't know how helpful this is going to be, but here's what I did today for the Forum.
> 
> *Vials, Enclosures, Containers, Cases, Tanks (USA)*
> 
> http://arachnoboards.com/threads/vials-enclosures-containers-cases-tanks-usa.284269/


awesome man, this should be a sticky. i regularly see questions on where to buy certain products. just linking this thread is all the answer they need.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## Roy1982 (Jun 11, 2016)

VanessaS said:


> Wow, you have been busy! I think that is awesome, maybe someone will sticky it? I'm not going to read through the whole thing because I am in Canada and probably can't get most of the stuff, but I bet that a lot of people will benefit from your hard work.


I tried to make a really nice list, and give a little something back. Thanks for all the help on my first post here on ArachnoBoards.



Venom1080 said:


> awesome man, this should be a sticky. i regularly see questions on where to buy certain products. just linking this thread is all the answer they need.


Exactly. They really should. lol. I tried to give a little something back, and that's what I came up with. Thanks for the help.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Andrea82 (Jun 11, 2016)

Wow, you went from being uninformed and supposedly trolling to contributing vital information and a really polite guy in a matter of days! Nice job

Reactions: Agree 4


----------



## Blackout14 (Jun 11, 2016)

Good stuff Roy!


----------



## darkness975 (Jun 11, 2016)

This thread is quite lengthy but a worthwhile read for sure. 
Good luck @Roy1982 with your new acquisition(s).

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Blackout14 (Jun 11, 2016)

darkness975 said:


> This thread is quite lengthy but a worthwhile read for sure.
> Good luck @Roy1982 with your new acquisition(s).


A lot of great info in here now.  This is how the hobby should be even though he started a bit on the wrong foot(poor wording) Roy is able to accept his mistakes move on and even add something very cool to the site which is awesome.  The day in done learning about these critters is the day I will sell them all is what I say all the time always learning things are always changing that's what makes it fun

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## darkness975 (Jun 11, 2016)

Blackout14 said:


> A lot of great info in here now.  This is how the hobby should be even though he started a bit on the wrong foot(poor wording) Roy is able to accept his mistakes move on and even add something very cool to the site which is awesome.  The day in done learning about these critters is the day I will sell them all is what I say all the time always learning things are always changing that's what makes it fun


Make sure you sell them all to me. I called it first!

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Chris LXXIX (Jun 11, 2016)

Good job Mr. Stark :-s

Reactions: Funny 2


----------



## Blackout14 (Jun 11, 2016)

darkness975 said:


> Make sure you sell them all to me. I called it first!


Deal!


----------

