# Profitable Herps...



## lizardminion (Apr 15, 2012)

This is something my mom asked about, not me, so don't jump on me about it.

So it just so happens that my mom wants us to become family business of reptile and invert breeders. However, our main concern is making profit. I know that tarantulas make good money, so I don't need to ask about that. However, what reptiles/amphibians can one stick with that make some good profit, considering that we also have to pay for supplies and breeders. I know it's tough. You have to have the right supplies, take good care of the animals, (and watch for diseases) and breed the right morphs to make money. Alternatively, do all I said, just have a rare(or not so rare) and already-exciting animal like poison dart frogs. (I believe PDFrogs make some good profit because of their actual ease of care and general expense...) Also, you have to watch for their popularity and competition.
But what all herps are known for their profit making abilities?


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## Nebulosa (Apr 15, 2012)

Although there are those that have made a living breeding herps, personally I've never made a dime (after you subtract the costs of feeding, supplies, etc.) from breeding herps, and I've been doing it for over 25 years.  I still do it, however, because I enjoy it - the only reason to do something like that, in my opinion.  Sure, I've had nice litters of various species of boas, pythons, kingsnakes, milksnakes, geckos, etc., and have sold, traded and given away the offspring, I just never really considered it as a money-making venture.  For many, once it becomes "a business", the fun evaporates and it then becomes work, or a chore, which is no longer fun.  My advice, do it for the love of it, not for the profitability.


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## pitbulllady (Apr 15, 2012)

lizardminion said:


> This is something my mom asked about, not me, so don't jump on me about it.
> 
> So it just so happens that my mom wants us to become family business of reptile and invert breeders. However, our main concern is making profit. I know that tarantulas make good money, so I don't need to ask about that. However, what reptiles/amphibians can one stick with that make some good profit, considering that we also have to pay for supplies and breeders. I know it's tough. You have to have the right supplies, take good care of the animals, (and watch for diseases) and breed the right morphs to make money. Alternatively, do all I said, just have a rare(or not so rare) and already-exciting animal like poison dart frogs. (I believe PDFrogs make some good profit because of their actual ease of care and general expense...) Also, you have to watch for their popularity and competition.
> But what all herps are known for their profit making abilities?


Frogs in general, including Dart frogs, have a limited market and require LOTS of specialized care and equipment, more than any reptile.  That is definitely not going to be a profitable market at all!  
"Profit-making" in ANY market very often depends on trends, which means "here today, gone tomorrow".  That means that any animal breeder has to be able to diversify to meet different markets.  BUT, as a long-time hobby animal breeder of everything from snakes to large dogs, I can tell you unless you own a large company and can hire many knowledgeable and dedicated employees and a staff of experts, bookkeepers, etc., you are not going to really make a profit breeding and selling ANY animal, unless you cut corners, which ultimately means producing an inferior(as in SICK)product.  There are too many risks involved, unforseen road blocks, and those public trends that mean you will be very fortunate to break even.  If you go into breeding and selling any pet animal species with the intent of turning a consistent profit, you will have to cut back on the care the animals receive.  That's why you hear of these "puppy mills" that cram dogs into tiny cages in a shed, breed females at every heat, forego vet care, etc.  They make a profit...at the dogs' expense.  Dog breeders who do this the right way, responsibly, lose money most of the time.  Once you factor in how much you spend on the animals' care and upkeep, and compare that to what you take in from sales, you most often will wind up in the red.  If you don't love what you do and let THAT be your deciding factor, you are going to run into real trouble down the line.  THAT should be the way to start, not going into it with the plan to start out as a business, but letting the hobby gradually grow into a business IF it can, and not starting with animals that are hot sellers, but with animals YOU like, in the hopes that others will eventually share that like.  Today's hot selling pet will be tomorrow's forgotten fad.  Right now, the hot tickets are Ball Python morphs, Boa Constrictor morphs, and Beardies are still doing well, but all of those involve a large outlay of capital from the get-go, an extensive knowledge of genetics, ability to travel to shows to showcase your animals, a highly competitive nature, a thick skin to shrug off the barbs inevitably thrown at you by other breeders and a lot of hard work.  You also have to be willing to fight legal issues on a local, state and national level which constantly threaten to destroy everything you've worked for.  Ask any big Burmese Python breeder.  THAT right there is the biggest issue with going into breeding ANY herps, commercially.  How much do you and your family know about laws and regulations, and how much are you willing to spend, to give up, to fight to be able to make breeding reptiles/amphibians your career?  Do you know that right now, as I type this, the US Fish and Wildlife Service is taking comments on the very distinct possibility of adding ALL frogs and toads to the Lacey Act, just like they did with Burms and AfRocks?  If that happens, does your family have a Plan B, on how to make a living?  

pitbulllady

Reactions: Like 1


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## lizardminion (Apr 15, 2012)

pitbulllady said:


> Frogs in general, including Dart frogs, have a limited market and require LOTS of specialized care and equipment, more than any reptile.  That is definitely not going to be a profitable market at all!
> "Profit-making" in ANY market very often depends on trends, which means "here today, gone tomorrow".  That means that any animal breeder has to be able to diversify to meet different markets.  BUT, as a long-time hobby animal breeder of everything from snakes to large dogs, I can tell you unless you own a large company and can hire many knowledgeable and dedicated employees and a staff of experts, bookkeepers, etc., you are not going to really make a profit breeding and selling ANY animal, unless you cut corners, which ultimately means producing an inferior(as in SICK)product.  There are too many risks involved, unforseen road blocks, and those public trends that mean you will be very fortunate to break even.  If you go into breeding and selling any pet animal species with the intent of turning a consistent profit, you will have to cut back on the care the animals receive.  That's why you hear of these "puppy mills" that cram dogs into tiny cages in a shed, breed females at every heat, forego vet care, etc.  They make a profit...at the dogs' expense.  Dog breeders who do this the right way, responsibly, lose money most of the time.  Once you factor in how much you spend on the animals' care and upkeep, and compare that to what you take in from sales, you most often will wind up in the red.  If you don't love what you do and let THAT be your deciding factor, you are going to run into real trouble down the line.  THAT should be the way to start, not going into it with the plan to start out as a business, but letting the hobby gradually grow into a business IF it can, and not starting with animals that are hot sellers, but with animals YOU like, in the hopes that others will eventually share that like.  Today's hot selling pet will be tomorrow's forgotten fad.  Right now, the hot tickets are Ball Python morphs, Boa Constrictor morphs, and Beardies are still doing well, but all of those involve a large outlay of capital from the get-go, an extensive knowledge of genetics, ability to travel to shows to showcase your animals, a highly competitive nature, a thick skin to shrug off the barbs inevitably thrown at you by other breeders and a lot of hard work.  You also have to be willing to fight legal issues on a local, state and national level which constantly threaten to destroy everything you've worked for.  Ask any big Burmese Python breeder.  THAT right there is the biggest issue with going into breeding ANY herps, commercially.  How much do you and your family know about laws and regulations, and how much are you willing to spend, to give up, to fight to be able to make breeding reptiles/amphibians your career?  Do you know that right now, as I type this, the US Fish and Wildlife Service is taking comments on the very distinct possibility of adding ALL frogs and toads to the Lacey Act, just like they did with Burms and AfRocks?  If that happens, does your family have a Plan B, on how to make a living?
> 
> pitbulllady


And that's somewhere along the lines of what I was thinking. It's hard making a profit off of these animals. People who do this do it for the love of the animal. That's why I want to do it. But my parents need/want some extra money so this came to mind, especially considering that people DO actually make profit somewhere, like BHB Reptiles or Ken The Bug Guy.


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## Arianji (Apr 15, 2012)

You want something that breeds? Try chinese painted quails, I realize they are not any form or shape a herpatile but these little birds are prolific. I started off with just one pair, my happy male and hen whom I love. I now have 14 of their offspring currently, I already gave away 7 too. In the 6 and a half months I have had these birds they have produced 21 babies. That's all from one pair. They have a ridiculously large clutch size of usually 8 to 9 eggs that incubate and hatch in 18 days and the chicks become mature in 2 months. The real question for you is who wants 4 to 5 inch long (as adults) ridiculously cute quails. Cause if you get a pair, be prepared because they will reproduce, and if you don't own an outdoor aviary, you will have no place for all the generations you own.


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## pitbulllady (Apr 15, 2012)

Arianji said:


> You want something that breeds? Try chinese painted quails, I realize they are not any form or shape a herpatile but these little birds are prolific. I started off with just one pair, my happy male and hen whom I love. I now have 14 of their offspring currently, I already gave away 7 too. In the 6 and a half months I have had these birds they have produced 21 babies. That's all from one pair. They have a ridiculously large clutch size of usually 8 to 9 eggs that incubate and hatch in 18 days and the chicks become mature in 2 months. The real question for you is who wants 4 to 5 inch long (as adults) ridiculously cute quails. Cause if you get a pair, be prepared because they will reproduce, and if you don't own an outdoor aviary, you will have no place for all the generations you own.


OR, if you REALLY want something that breeds, AND sells very well, and will probably continue to do so, try raising feeder rodents.  The few people I know who do so do very well, money-wise, and can't breed the things fast enough to keep up with supply.  There is always a demand, regardless of the economy.  It's a LOT of work, but raising any animal commercially always is, whether it's rats, frogs or cattle.

And Lizardminion, if your parents NEED extra money, where are they going to get the captital to start a reptile/herp breeding business in the first place?  I know it's an old saying, but it's very, very true: you must HAVE money to MAKE money.  Unless you already have extra cash available that isn't already earmarked for bills, etc., you won't be able to get started in any business, bottom line.  NO business endeavor is going to start turning a profit right away, and many never will.  At the very least, it will take a few years to just to recoup your initial investment, so if there is already a need for money, a shortage of money(join the club), where is the extra money going to come from to get started, and how are you going to pay bills while waiting for the business to take off?  What if it fails, as many actually do?  People make the mistake of looking at a long-term, well-established business like the two you mentioned and fail to take into consideration how long those folks have been at it, how long it took before their HOBBIES turned into a business, the level of knowledge and expertise they had to have before they could get started, the set-backs they have had to endure over the years, OR fail to consider that for every ONE successful business in this field, there are probably a hundred or more that fail, for various reasons.  Perhaps it would be a good idea to talk to one of those guys, like Ken, to find out how long it took and WHAT it took to get to where he is now, as well as what's involved, money-wise and work-wise.  Those are better questions to ask than "what herps are profitable".  And, the BEST advice I can give you is to LISTEN TO AND HEED THE ADVICE of people who've been around and dealt with these animals for decades!! It is pointless for you to ask anyone's opinion or ask for advice if you're going to ignore it.  It's not about which types of animals are profitable, so much as it is the amount of time, work, mess, education(yours and your clients') and money, money, money that you can put into it.

pitbulllady


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## lizardminion (Apr 15, 2012)

pitbulllady said:


> OR, if you REALLY want something that breeds, AND sells very well, and will probably continue to do so, try raising feeder rodents.  The few people I know who do so do very well, money-wise, and can't breed the things fast enough to keep up with supply.  There is always a demand, regardless of the economy.  It's a LOT of work, but raising any animal commercially always is, whether it's rats, frogs or cattle.
> 
> And Lizardminion, if your parents NEED extra money, where are they going to get the captital to start a reptile/herp breeding business in the first place?  I know it's an old saying, but it's very, very true: you must HAVE money to MAKE money.  Unless you already have extra cash available that isn't already earmarked for bills, etc., you won't be able to get started in any business, bottom line.  NO business endeavor is going to start turning a profit right away, and many never will.  At the very least, it will take a few years to just to recoup your initial investment, so if there is already a need for money, a shortage of money(join the club), where is the extra money going to come from to get started, and how are you going to pay bills while waiting for the business to take off?  What if it fails, as many actually do?  People make the mistake of looking at a long-term, well-established business like the two you mentioned and fail to take into consideration how long those folks have been at it, how long it took before their HOBBIES turned into a business, the level of knowledge and expertise they had to have before they could get started, the set-backs they have had to endure over the years, OR fail to consider that for every ONE successful business in this field, there are probably a hundred or more that fail, for various reasons.  Perhaps it would be a good idea to talk to one of those guys, like Ken, to find out how long it took and WHAT it took to get to where he is now, as well as what's involved, money-wise and work-wise.  Those are better questions to ask than "what herps are profitable".  And, the BEST advice I can give you is to LISTEN TO AND HEED THE ADVICE of people who've been around and dealt with these animals for decades!! It is pointless for you to ask anyone's opinion or ask for advice if you're going to ignore it.  It's not about which types of animals are profitable, so much as it is the amount of time, work, mess, education(yours and your clients') and money, money, money that you can put into it.
> 
> pitbulllady


I see where you're getting at. They do have extra money to buy stuff, they just need some extra pocket change for future needs, such as taxes. (Since some bank went around lying so we're being taxed some extra hundred dollars a month)
I also like your first idea. Maybe instead of the actual hobby animals, I can get them to breed feeders such as mice, crickets, and roaches. (Eventually, rabbits)
I see how that's better than breeding the main animals for business. What is a hobby, pretty much stays a hobby. The trend changes and breeding the hobby animals isn't a good way to go about making a business. People do it much for the love of the animal. It isn't something that should ever be lead to being corporately corrupt. It should remain a natural, enjoyable hobby. Where business arises is the supplies and other things necessary for the hobby. Like healthy, plumb feeders for the carnivorous herps and inverts.
Thanks for your advice, pitbulllady!


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## Thistles (Apr 15, 2012)

Is this the same mother you are trying to talk into a cornsnake and a proper tank for your tadpoles?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Camden (Apr 15, 2012)

Thistles said:


> Is this the same mother you are trying to talk into a cornsnake and a proper tank for your tadpoles?


a

Thats what I was thinking.. I don't see how she's okay with breeding them when she won't get him one, plus lizardminion you seem to be a little confused as to what you want. I'd just get a pet and not worry about breeding right now.


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## Hayden (Apr 16, 2012)

Also, as someone who has intimate knowledge of how a large scale breeding operation runs, do you have the faintest idea how a place like BHB operates? 

BHB doesn't run out of a basement. It runs out of a warehouse. They don't have one snake, or two snakes, or a hundred snakes. They have literally thousands and thousands and thousands of snakes worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, with a full staff of employees working full time to keep it running. To really breed on a large scale and make some money, you have to have a ton of capital to sink into your business. It isn't something you can just "start." Same goes for feeder breeding. You have to be able to provide humane housing, food, bedding, etc. for those animals as well.

There is no magic money making animal. If there was, everyone would breed it and we'd all be rich. I'd recommend finding a good beginner pet and see if you can handle the one pet before you begin accumulating more.


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## JOE P (Apr 16, 2012)

lizardminion said:


> This is something my mom asked about, not me, so don't jump on me about it.
> 
> So it just so happens that my mom wants us to become family business of reptile and invert breeders. However, our main concern is making profit. I know that tarantulas make good money, so I don't need to ask about that. However, what reptiles/amphibians can one stick with that make some good profit, considering that we also have to pay for supplies and breeders. I know it's tough. You have to have the right supplies, take good care of the animals, (and watch for diseases) and breed the right morphs to make money. Alternatively, do all I said, just have a rare(or not so rare) and already-exciting animal like poison dart frogs. (I believe PDFrogs make some good profit because of their actual ease of care and general expense...) Also, you have to watch for their popularity and competition.
> But what all herps are known for their profit making abilities?


ball pythons


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## Hayden (Apr 16, 2012)

JOE P said:


> ball pythons


...are only profitable if you have the thousands and thousands of dollars it takes to get the profitable morphs. 

Please scroll through these pages and look at the prices of the higher end morphs. How much money do you think it will take to build up a breeding group?
http://bhb-reptiles.myshopify.com/collections/ball-pythons?page=1


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## Thistles (Apr 16, 2012)

Hayden said:


> ...are only profitable if you have the thousands and thousands of dollars it takes to get the profitable morphs.
> 
> Please scroll through these pages and look at the prices of the higher end morphs. How much money do you think it will take to build up a breeding group?
> http://bhb-reptiles.myshopify.com/collections/ball-pythons?page=1


Not only that, but the whole ball python business is so incestuous. Who buys those high end morphs but other potential breeders? Those aren't snakes that have a broad market. Your average hobbyist isn't going to drop several grand on a pet. They're almost exclusively an investment snake.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Hayden (Apr 16, 2012)

Thistles said:


> Not only that, but the whole ball python business is so incestuous. Who buys those high end morphs but other potential breeders? Those aren't snakes that have a broad market. Your average hobbyist isn't going to drop several grand on a pet. They're almost exclusively an investment snake.


Not only that, but the market is pretty well cornered by the big places. Why buy something out of a startup when you could go to the source?


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## RS4guy (Apr 16, 2012)

Westernhogs, ones with cool/rare color morphs will always be very profitable. Rare retics morphs too, along with most hot snakes. Chams always fetch a pretty penny, esp. if you invest in a Parsons pair or rare Panther locale, but tend to be alot more care than most herps. Amphibians don't have the market. 

---------- Post added 04-16-2012 at 10:07 AM ----------




Hayden said:


> ...are only profitable if you have the thousands and thousands of dollars it takes to get the profitable morphs.
> 
> Please scroll through these pages and look at the prices of the higher end morphs. How much money do you think it will take to build up a breeding group?
> http://bhb-reptiles.myshopify.com/collections/ball-pythons?page=1


If your starting up a breeding business, an inital investment would be needed anyways, and rare snake morphs tend to fetch good money. I find that a moot point, unless this "business" is more of a hobby or something.


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## JOE P (Apr 16, 2012)

Hayden said:


> ...are only profitable if you have the thousands and thousands of dollars it takes to get the profitable morphs.
> 
> Please scroll through these pages and look at the prices of the higher end morphs. How much money do you think it will take to build up a breeding group?
> http://bhb-reptiles.myshopify.com/collections/ball-pythons?page=1


I know how much balls go for,it always takes money to make money...the people who are smarter at it will succeed...just like everything else in life

---------- Post added 04-16-2012 at 10:08 AM ----------




Thistles said:


> Not only that, but the whole ball python business is so incestuous. Who buys those high end morphs but other potential breeders? Those aren't snakes that have a broad market. Your average hobbyist isn't going to drop several grand on a pet. They're almost exclusively an investment snake.


The ball pythons have the most broad market and are still the most popular reptile in the hobby and it isnt gonna change anytime soon so like you say they are an investment snake...


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## lizardminion (Apr 16, 2012)

Thistles said:


> Is this the same mother you are trying to talk into a cornsnake and a proper tank for your tadpoles?


I never mentioned the latter, and the former wasn't hardly mentioned. She knows I kinda want a snake, but I don't really mention it much.
Somebody else wanted me to get a fish tank. I don't need, or want one.


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## Thistles (Apr 16, 2012)

> Some of the tadpole have officially grown into toadlets, and have even managed to climb out of the container! (which lead me to find two on the floor and forcing me to revive them- both were revived successfully, much to my relief) They are busy absorbing their tails, and I should have them in a new (temporary) critter container until I can get around to getting an actual tank. I'm predicting they'll fully absorb their tails within two days, so they'll need fruit flies or pinhead crix. Let's see how far I can convince my mom to buy them some stuff...





> I'm beginning to blame my poor husbandry tactic, although I still lack a proper container to place them in. Once again, I'll see into that today. I do have peat moss though, although it's still in package, just waiting to be settled down in a 10 gal... I'm hoping to go to the store today and buy some fruit flies and a vivarium.





> Well, 2 just died, and I saved 3 more from dying by dunking them in water. Added peat moss to the jar. I'll nag the Hell out of my parents to get me some proper equipment to care for them to avoid situations like this in the future.
> Really upset over the loss...


All taken from your tadpole thread here.

Your interest is commendable, but please don't take responsibility for living things unless you can provide for them. As a minor, your parents have to be on board with this as well.

Reactions: Like 1


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## lizardminion (Apr 18, 2012)

Thistles said:


> All taken from your tadpole thread here.
> 
> Your interest is commendable, but please don't take responsibility for living things unless you can provide for them. As a minor, your parents have to be on board with this as well.


Not quite. I said _toadlets_, not tadpoles.
They're actually doing quite fine. Bought a fruit fly culture the other day.  I'm saving up some $$$ from doing yard-work so I can buy a 10 gal for nine, 1 cm long toads. I already have some peat moss and a water dish. And I have some tadpoles who are growing fat and fast. I just made some noobie errors.


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## Hayden (Apr 18, 2012)

9 toads are going to need a huge tank as adults.


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## cacoseraph (Apr 18, 2012)

for reference, Ken TBG's operation takes around 125-175 hours of labor a week to keep up (this is my rough/bad estimate and not an official position of Ken's =P ). and it most certainly is not making him rich.  it is a living, but not a get rich quick type of deal.  and he has an awesome reputation and has worked his buns off for the last ~5-7 years to get where he is at.

i really like the feeder suggestion.  if there *is* one constant in hobbies, it is the necessity of feeding pet animals.  the initial investment for bug feeders is quite low compared to most other things.  i can get ~50 baby crickets from 1 mom and need like... less than a dollar to do it.  crickets are not generally heavily regulated, compared to roaches.  mice/rats i have no experience with but i do know of a few ppl who make their bread and butter via feeder rodents and make their cheddar via some reptiles and inverts.  

think of it like this... buying a pet is a luxury, feeding the pets you already have is a necessity.


heck, you might actually get rich if you could nail down some new feeder species.  some new kind of goofy beetles or caterpillars you find in your backyard could actually be your path to riches =P


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## Thistles (Apr 18, 2012)

lizardminion said:


> Not quite. I said _toadlets_, not tadpoles.


  Regardless of the term you used in that particular instance, we are talking about the same individual animals. Get real.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Skeleton-Man (Apr 19, 2012)

Thistles said:


> Not only that, but the whole ball python business is so incestuous. Who buys those high end morphs but other potential breeders? Those aren't snakes that have a broad market. Your average hobbyist isn't going to drop several grand on a pet. They're almost exclusively an investment snake.


That is very true. I rarely see one of those ultra high-end morphs in a nice little set up other than a rubbermaid bin as a potential breeding project. They are still pretty awesome to look at from my computer screen though :3


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## JOE P (Apr 20, 2012)

Thistles said:


> Not only that, but the whole ball python business is so incestuous. Who buys those high end morphs but other potential breeders? Those aren't snakes that have a broad market. Your average hobbyist isn't going to drop several grand on a pet. They're almost exclusively an investment snake.


dont forget that ball pythons do offer a whole range of different prices so they do have a broad market...im not into ball pythons but im not blind either...the ball python market is one of the strongest its just a reptile hobby fact


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## Lorgakor (Apr 20, 2012)

How old are you? 14? Do your parents know anything about keeping and or breeding reptiles? Do they have thousands of dollars laying around to put out as a starter? You need to buy not only breeding stock, and adult animals that are ready to breed cost ALOT more than babies, but you need to buy caging, heating, temperature control, substrate, food. Some of these things are an ongoing expense, if they are short $100 a month already, where is the money for all the feeding and exta electricity going to come from? Who is going to look after all of these animals on a daily basis? It takes at least a couple of years to start seeing any profit in breeding animals, are your parents prepared for extra expense with no return until then? What happens when your breeder snake gets an RI, and then two and three more get it. We're talking hundreds of dollars in vet bills, are they prepared for that? 

If they are looking for a money making business, this isn't it. 90% of people who decide they are going to breed animals just for the money, fade away very quickly. Breed for the love first, for business second.


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## lizardminion (Apr 20, 2012)

Lorgakor said:


> How old are you? 14? Do your parents know anything about keeping and or breeding reptiles? Do they have thousands of dollars laying around to put out as a starter? You need to buy not only breeding stock, and adult animals that are ready to breed cost ALOT more than babies, but you need to buy caging, heating, temperature control, substrate, food. Some of these things are an ongoing expense, if they are short $100 a month already, where is the money for all the feeding and exta electricity going to come from? Who is going to look after all of these animals on a daily basis? It takes at least a couple of years to start seeing any profit in breeding animals, are your parents prepared for extra expense with no return until then? What happens when your breeder snake gets an RI, and then two and three more get it. We're talking hundreds of dollars in vet bills, are they prepared for that?
> 
> If they are looking for a money making business, this isn't it. 90% of people who decide they are going to breed animals just for the money, fade away very quickly. Breed for the love first, for business second.


Not trying to sound mean, but it'd help if you read some later post.
I've decided I should breed feeders instead. 

My parents haven't mentioned any more of it. I believe they gave up on the thought.
However, I haven't given up and I really do seek to start a (small) breeding biz.


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## jayefbe (Apr 20, 2012)

lizardminion said:


> Not trying to sound mean, but it'd help if you read some later post.
> I've decided I should breed feeders instead.
> 
> My parents haven't mentioned any more of it. I believe they gave up on the thought.
> However, I haven't given up and I really do seek to start a (small) breeding biz.


Aren't you moving to the Caribbean too? If you really did start a breeding business, you're not going to be able to take it with you. Regardless, breeding reptiles or breeding feeders, you're going to be looking at a full-time job, a considerable investment of cash, space and time and quite a while before any profits start showing up. I agree that feeders have a higher likelihood of turning a profit, but it's not a "get rich quick" scheme. Currently, I don't see how you're going to have the necessary investment and time in order to develop a breeding business on any significant level.


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## Thistles (Apr 20, 2012)

JOE P said:


> dont forget that ball pythons do offer a whole range of different prices so they do have a broad market...im not into ball pythons but im not blind either...the ball python market is one of the strongest its just a reptile hobby fact


Yes, the normal balls are often sold to beginners or casual hobbyists, but most beginners shop at pet stores. The breeders sell them wholesale to these stores, or else the stores get wild caught or captive hatched snakes. Most breeders focus on fancy morphs, and I have never seen anything but a normal in a pet store. The market for balls in general is broad, and it is a big business. I am not denying either of those. What I am saying is that the market for higher end ball morphs is more limited as far as potential customers, not potential money. The people paying big bucks for snakes are ones who see them as an investment and not just your average hobbyist who wants a cool display snake. That means your customers will be other ball breeders, and there are already big, established breeders making it hard for newbie breeders to get a toe in the door at more than just the hobby level. Why buy from the little guy when there's someone with 20 yrs of experience (and reviews!) who works with 20 different morphs and has thousands of snakes?


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## lizardminion (Apr 21, 2012)

jayefbe said:


> Aren't you moving to the Caribbean too? If you really did start a breeding business, you're not going to be able to take it with you. Regardless, breeding reptiles or breeding feeders, you're going to be looking at a full-time job, a considerable investment of cash, space and time and quite a while before any profits start showing up. I agree that feeders have a higher likelihood of turning a profit, but it's not a "get rich quick" scheme. Currently, I don't see how you're going to have the necessary investment and time in order to develop a breeding business on any significant level.


I'm starting to smell a smart alec... I'm not moving, (any time soon) it was stupid inquiry made by my parents. Only if the gov't here starts to eff everything up will we leave out of the country.
When I post, I expect the post to _stay on topic[/] and be relevant to the topic. Not bring something from elsewhere into it.
As far as feeders, I know exactly how and to care for and breed mice, as well as popular feeder insects. When it comes to rodents and insects, I carry experience._


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## JOE P (Apr 21, 2012)

Thistles said:


> Yes, the normal balls are often sold to beginners or casual hobbyists, but most beginners shop at pet stores. The breeders sell them wholesale to these stores, or else the stores get wild caught or captive hatched snakes. Most breeders focus on fancy morphs, and I have never seen anything but a normal in a pet store. The market for balls in general is broad, and it is a big business. I am not denying either of those. What I am saying is that the market for higher end ball morphs is more limited as far as potential customers, not potential money. The people paying big bucks for snakes are ones who see them as an investment and not just your average hobbyist who wants a cool display snake. That means your customers will be other ball breeders, and there are already big, established breeders making it hard for newbie breeders to get a toe in the door at more than just the hobby level. Why buy from the little guy when there's someone with 20 yrs of experience (and reviews!) who works with 20 different morphs and has thousands of snakes?


those people on top have the hardest job of them all and thats staying on top. Theres always somebody looking to take your business and customers like options...Your treating my posts as if im saying making money breeding ball pythons (or anything)would be easy, i didnt say that...but i think ball pythons is the best answer for the kids question


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## Thistles (Apr 21, 2012)

JOE P said:


> those people on top have the hardest job of them all and thats staying on top. Theres always somebody looking to take your business and customers like options...Your treating my posts as if im saying making money breeding ball pythons (or anything)would be easy, i didnt say that...but i think ball pythons is the best answer for the kids question


 Nah, I'm not disagreeing with you. I only posted about balls twice. All I was saying is the ball python business, while it can be profitable, is just selling breeder quality snakes to other breeders.


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## Hayden (Apr 21, 2012)

lizardminion said:


> I'm starting to smell a smart alec... I'm not moving, (any time soon) it was stupid inquiry made by my parents. Only if the gov't here starts to eff everything up will we leave out of the country.
> When I post, I expect the post to _stay on topic[/] and be relevant to the topic. Not bring something from elsewhere into it.
> As far as feeders, I know exactly how and to care for and breed mice, as well as popular feeder insects. When it comes to rodents and insects, I carry experience._


_

You did mention that you were planning on moving out of the country, and the members here are trying to offer you good advice relevant to your situation. What will you do if/when you leave the country? How much notice will you have? How will you get rid of your current stock and restart in a new location?_


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## lizardminion (Apr 21, 2012)

Hayden said:


> You did mention that you were planning on moving out of the country, and the members here are trying to offer you good advice relevant to your situation. What will you do if/when you leave the country? How much notice will you have? How will you get rid of your current stock and restart in a new location?


I didn't say I was, I said I _might_. I guess I should've mentioned if I do, be it in the distant future.


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## Shrike (Apr 22, 2012)

lizardminion said:


> I didn't say I was, I said I _might_


So what?  It's still something you should take into consideration before starting your own business.


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## dtknow (Apr 22, 2012)

Lower end ball pythons are honestly not a good investment snake IMO esp. for this guys position. You have to compete with WC, farmed, as well as other peoples surplus. Ball pythons are slow growing and not very prolific(which is nice when you are working with morphs, but otherwise no). Also, they cost a good bit to set up in numbers needed to produce anything.

I would also second the feeder option. 

I would say breeding reptiles you can break even, but consistently making a profit without cutting corners is difficult and takes years of building a reputation.


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## lizardminion (Apr 23, 2012)

Shrike said:


> So what?  It's still something you should take into consideration before starting your own business.


It's not likely at this point.


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## Hayden (Apr 23, 2012)

lizardminion said:


> It's not likely at this point.


But if it's a possibility, even a small one, it really is something you should have a plan for, and if it's in the distant future all that means is that you'll theoretically have more stock you'll need to get rid of.

Here's a good website for people looking to start a business. I'd recommend you sit down with your parents and go over this if you're still thinking about starting a breeding operation. It talks about how to get your business licenses, registering for taxes, how to apply for loans and financial backing for start-up, etc. It's not business school, but it gives you and idea of what you need to do from the practical end.

http://www.sba.gov/content/follow-these-steps-starting-business


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## jayefbe (Apr 23, 2012)

lizardminion said:


> I'm starting to smell a smart alec... I'm not moving, (any time soon) it was stupid inquiry made by my parents. Only if the gov't here starts to eff everything up will we leave out of the country.
> When I post, I expect the post to _stay on topic[/] and be relevant to the topic. Not bring something from elsewhere into it.
> As far as feeders, I know exactly how and to care for and breed mice, as well as popular feeder insects. When it comes to rodents and insects, I carry experience._


_


Not a smart alec, just forthright and honest. You seem to be heavy on enthusiasm and short on long-term thinking. I know what it's like to want to own every exotic pet under the sun. If you can make a profit off of it, all the better! But it's not a simple task, and very few that get into it see any profit. 

It doesn't matter what you're planning to breed, be it ball pythons, leopard geckos or even feeders. You need a large outlay of cash, and a large amount of time to see any profit. 
For a hypothetical rodent feeder breeding setup you need to account for the following costs:
- Initial breeding group
- Housing (build your own, or buy?)
- Food
- Watering system
- Electrical costs

Other factors:
- Time spent every week cleaning, removing pups, feeding, watering, advertising, and selling.
- Time spent in debt before you finally see a return on investment
- Where will your breeding group be housed? They definitely don't smell great. Will your parents let you keep them in a room in the house? In the garage? Will they charge you for it?
- Where will you sell them?
- What will you do when you move? Or leave for school? 

Buying prime breeding stock likely isn't a significant investment (like ball pythons, where you're spending 10+ grand for a competitive group), but it will probably be more than just stopping by the pet store if you want quality genetics.

Housing can cost anywhere from a few thousand dollars to a couple hundred. I've built racks to house ball pythons before, and it cost me about $150 dollars. I'd estimate that you could build a small rack that could house a couple tubs for nursing females, and a handful of grow-out tubs for $200-$300. 

Most enthusiasts try to purchase their rodents from breeders that only use high quality food. Mazuri is a common choice.

You can build a watering system, but I have heard of failures that have led to drowning of entire colonies. I'd personally purchase a system unless I was 100% positive that I could build a failproof system. Probably another $100-$200.

This is a large investment, and that's assuming your parents are cool with you taking over a room in the house or the garage. I'm not even taking into account the amount of time that will need to be spent each week just caring for the animals, and then finding a place to unload them. Many smaller rodent breeders will drive for up to a couple hours one way to visit local reptile expos in an effort to sell their wares. Most pet stores either already breed their own feeders or get them shipped in from large-scale facilities. There's a reason why not everyone breeds herps or feeders as source of income. It's incredibly difficult and time-consuming to even come close to breaking even. In the end, the simplest way of making some extra money is just getting a job. Not as exciting, but it won't leave you in significant debt. I'm not bringing up these questions to be a "smart alec". They're simply questions that must be asked before deciding to attempt something like this._

Reactions: Like 1


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## bwusstig (Apr 23, 2012)

I think it has been made pretty clear that a lot of time & money will be required for any type of business you choose to start up.  That being said...If you are asking what is profitable, I think a lot of that depends on you.  Pick any animal and I think if you search hard enough you can find someone who is making a living working with that animal.  However, from my experience, those who do well with any given animal are those who are truly interested in working with that species.  And...I don't just mean a casual interest.  I'm talking about crazy enthusiastic about their stock whether it be roaches or pythons.  Usually those who are most successful focus on one group of animals and become the "expert" or "specialist" in that group.  Think about it.  I bet right off the top of your head you can name great sources for ball pythons, crickets & rodents, and I bet they are all different vendors.   If I were you, I would keep going as a hobbyist and try out many different things.  Do this for a while.  Try your hand at breeding all different kinds of reptiles, rodents, roaches, crickets, whatever!  See what works for you and focus on that animal.  Don't try to work with too many species.  Ultimately, if you don't have a serious interest in the stock you work with you will almost certainly fade away like so many others that think breeding herps can be their road to riches.


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## JOE P (Apr 23, 2012)

....and then, after what everyone has covered, then the real work begins...dealing with people...having breeding success...packing snakes(or whatever)...building a rep, bla bla bla you get it.


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