# Best feeder roaches



## smokejuan (Jun 5, 2005)

What is the best feeder roaches for Tarantulas. I tired of crickets. Are there any pros or cons feeding roaches over crickets?


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## Dark Raptor (Jun 5, 2005)

smokejuan said:
			
		

> What is the best feeder roaches for Tarantulas.


For me: Blaptica dubia, Nauphoeta cinerea, Blaberus spp.



			
				smokejuan said:
			
		

> Are there any pros or cons feeding roaches over crickets?


Check topics at this forum (there were many discussion about that) in. egz.

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=44880


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## roach dude (Jun 5, 2005)

i dont realy know much about T's but all i know is that hisser are terrible feeders!!!!!!!!


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## Digby Rigby (Jun 5, 2005)

*Feeder roaches*

For Tarantulas there is no advantage to crickets over roaches.  Roaches are nutrtionally superior to crix and are much easier to care for, are more prolific.  Good species to use as feeders are Blaptica dubia, Blaberus species such as fusca, craniifer,discoidales and parabolicus.  About the smallest non climber around is Blatta orientalis or Blatta lateralis.  Byrsotria fumigata is another excellent non climber slower moving then the dubia but wider and thicker as well as shorter in length.  All the species I have mentioned are non climbers.  The orientalis does run the risk of becoming a pest if it escapes.  There really is no need to use lobster roaches the are a pain and inconvenient to work with.  Use the Blatta species instead they offer everything lobster roaches do with out the hassles.

Digby Rigby

DigbyRigby@exoticfeeders.com

http://exoticfeeders.com


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## xelda (Jun 5, 2005)

I think it really depends on the type of tarantulas you're feeding.  I use lobster roaches for my 1/4" slings because it's more convenient.  For the larger Ts, I have to use more chunkier species like those belonging to the Blaberus species.

In my opinion, if you've got arboreal Ts, you're better off sticking to crickets than roaches because at least the crickets will climb around and get eaten right away whereas the roaches will burrow.  Then again, that depends on the type of set-up you have too.

I've got a site up with caresheets comparing the pros and cons of some species I breed.  The site's still in the works, so I don't have everything up that I want.

www.BugChick.com

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Digby Rigby (Jun 6, 2005)

*Crix sux*

Lobster roaches are a hassle to deal with if you need smaller roaches then you can use Panchlora nivea they climb and fly as adults but are very small and soft bodied.  The nymphs dont climb.  There are also other day active species of roaches such as those from the genus Gyna and Pseudomops.  Also some species of phasmids are also good to use as feeders including the nymphs.  I have not found it advantageous to use lobsters for anything because the inconvenience factor out wieghs any benefits to them. For arboreals you can just put a smooth shallow container up higher if need be.  Species such as Blatta lateralis are small non glass climbing roaches that make lobster roaches redundant.  Polyphaga aegyptica are another roach that is better then lobsters being ootheca layers and non climbers the babies are much more suited to 1/4 inch and smaller then lobster nymphs.  Again there is no nutritional or ease of maintenece benefits to lobster roaches that other species cant do better, easier, and more efficiently.

DigbyRigby@exoticfeeders.com

My feeders are cooler than your pets!


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## JustBugs (Jun 17, 2005)

*Roaches over crickets as feeders*

Roaches offer many benefits over crickets as feeders.
1.Their life span is extremely longer.
2.They don't have the odor of crickets.
3.They are extremely easier to care for.
4.They don't make noise.
5.They are easier to breed and raise.
6.Most crickets are nocturnal and hide during the day.
7.The nutritional content of roaches is far superior than crickets. 

Many species of roaches are non climbers, which for obvious reasons, are the more preferable.
However, the lobster roach, which are easy to maintain, have some distinct advantages. They are soft bodied, as adults, which is preferable to some animals your feeding. Also, they breed mad crazy which is a great if your feeding a multitude of animals. Additionally, they are MUCH more reasonably priced than the non-climbing species. 
The P. niveas (Green Cuban Roaches) are notorious escape artists as adults. With both the ability to fly and climb. Unless you have animals that prefer green prey it's best to stay away from this specie.
Remember though, that a variety of food prey is beneficial to any animal. Also, proper gut loading is a key to any feeder insect. Most insects assimilate and pass on to your animal, what you feed them. So their diet should consist of a good nutritional content, as well.   

I hope this helps!!

www.justbugs.com


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## DR zuum (Jun 17, 2005)

roach dude said:
			
		

> i dont realy know much about T's but all i know is that hisser are terrible feeders!!!!!!!!


Once again another statement without any proof whatsoever to back it up,i started a roach colony of hissers about 4 to 5 months ago,from what was being talked about in one of the earlier threads on this subject.Hissers are hard to breed,nothing but fat,blah blah blah without anything to substantiate it.In fact the main person stating this was supposed to give his evidence but provided nothing that could substantiate his claims.So being the person that i am i decided to find out for myself.

The colony was started with 6 females and 2 males under optimal conditions for hissers from what data i could find on thier native enviornment.The food source used is flukers cricket feed plus greens and shaved hearts of carrots.60 % humidty 80 to 86 degrees temp.I now have 400 babies with 3 more of the females looking gravid again 1 male died but thats been the only loss,so they are not hard to breed,so first falsehood busted.

As soon as i can get some lab time over at the university a friend there is going to determine thier nutritional value as there is nothing anywhere on this,including any data showing they are nothing but fat.I've been feeding the babies to the smaller T's and slings growth looks good and they are looking great.

Digby rigby said this info on the nutritional value and hissers being nothing  but fat was at his site i and 2 others i know of went there and found nothing in fact there isnt much info on anything there.He also stated that this info was determined by someone at UC Berkley i asked for a link to this info still havent got it.  So i called uc berkley,  no one there knew anything about it.Heres the original thread where this was being discussed. http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=40157&highlight=hissers


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## cacoseraph (Jun 17, 2005)

i've always wondered about this.

it seems like the roaches i keep, Mad. Hissers ( no where near ready to feed off of, and i started before Zuum and with ~3-4x as many... i kowtow to my better *thunk*thunk*) and lobster roaches, both seem much less inclined to snack on each other

if that is true, would that translate into a smaller chance of snacking on a molting pet?

(obviously this is an almost valueless speculative type question, but *could* pertain to advantages of roaches over crix)


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## Gsc (Jun 17, 2005)

I use lobster roaches...  I wish they DIDN'T climb glass.... but they do breed quickly.  I've heard that as far as meant to shell ratio, they are the best.

I'd love to find a better feeder roach, possible the discos or that hybrid one people feed...   I'm really trying to stay away from crickets...

It took my spiders & centipedes a bit to get used to them...and I feed roaches probably 1/2 the time these days... does save on money, don't have to run to the pet store so often, and it ads variety to their diet.

I'd like to see what everyone else has to say on this subject....


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## Digby Rigby (Jun 17, 2005)

*There is proof*

Dr Zuum there is no one who uses hissers as feeders if they have any experience and access to other roaches.  people use hissers for one of 3 reasons.  They are cheap.  They cant find anything else.  Or they dont know any better.  You have not found anything contradictory to what I have stated.  I love being found out to be incorrect.  That is where growth comes from.  Therefore I do not have to prove I am right you must prove me wrong! ;P   you have not found anything that would contradict what I have stated.  Do a dissection yourself on Hissers and see all shell and fat.  No one who has access to other roaches or any experience with other roaches would choose hissers as feeders.  Except those who are cheap or dont care about doing the best for their captives.

Digby Rigby

DigbyRigby@exoticfeeders.com

My feeders are cooler than your pets!


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## DanD5303 (Jun 17, 2005)

I started out using crickets, but didn't like the smell.  I tried lobster roaches next and have been very happy with them.  I use a large tupperware tub with a ring of vasoline about half way up the sides.  In order to keep them from burrowing, I use forceps and crush their little heads when I feed them.  The darn things can live for at least two days like that, so if a spider doesn't eat due to an upcoming molt, the roach can be fed to something else the next day.  I have quarter inch slings that have no problem eating the smallest nymphs.  Lobsters breed like crazy, eat cat food and apples, and don't smell.  I think they are excellent feeders.

DanD


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## DR zuum (Jun 18, 2005)

Digby Rigby said:
			
		

> Dr Zuum there is no one who uses hissers as feeders if they have any experience and access to other roaches.  people use hissers for one of 3 reasons.  They are cheap.  They cant find anything else.  Or they dont know any better.  You have not found anything contradictory to what I have stated.  I love being found out to be incorrect.  That is where growth comes from.  Therefore I do not have to prove I am right you must prove me wrong! ;P   you have not found anything that would contradict what I have stated.  Do a dissection yourself on Hissers and see all shell and fat.  No one who has access to other roaches or any experience with other roaches would choose hissers as feeders.  Except those who are cheap or dont care about doing the best for their captives.
> 
> Digby Rigby
> 
> ...





			
				Digby Rigby said:
			
		

> There is proof


Lets see it then,so far you've shown nothing.Neither at your site which has very little information on anything,or in the form of a link to the source and data.
No digby i dont have to prove you wrong,you have to validate your claim as there is not one shred of evidence to prove it,nor to back up your purported study which no one i talked to had ever heard of.Because you say it's so it is?Youre talking out your (_!_).So basically if someone said martians,and werewolves walk the earth,if no one could find anything to contradict it,it must be true?You cant seriously believe that type of logic is sound.And just so you know,dissection alone would not yield any information on nutritional value or fat content at all, :? "look at it you'll see" jesus you cant be serious. Like i said as soon as i can get some time a analysis will be done not just looking at it lol.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Schlyne (Jun 18, 2005)

The two of you have missed some strong points here.  I don't use hissers becuase:

1) They have harder exoskeletons
2) They climb
3) They grow to a size that is far to large for my herps.

The last two reasons (if they fly, and breeding speed) are really what determines what roach species you're willing to get.  (I have B. dubia myself).  If you're just walking into some random large chain pet store, Hissers are the only roach you'll see if they have any at all.  Obviously, if you go online, you have access to many different roach species.  Also, at the really big shows, you'll probably see somebody selling different species of roaches (usually orangeheads or lobsters.) 

I feed the T's the roaches most of the time (along with other insects, I try to keep a varied bug diet for my bug eaters).  Unforunately, not all of my geckos realize the roaches are good eating.


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## DR zuum (Jun 18, 2005)

Nope schlyne my friend im not missing anything.Granted there are species that breed faster and more prolifically,and are softer.I have never argued this,my point of contention is the they are hard to breed,and are nothing but fat.These are the most stupid statements i have ever heard.Especially since it has no basis in fact other than somebody sayng it.In fact im willing to bet before the nutritional analysis is even done that they have no more fat than any other roach,roach fat indeed phfffft!

Having no prior knowledge of roaches i contacted several breeders including the ones here in town,not one of them said they were hard to breed or all fat i was told they are slow growing as the drawback.In fact they seem to be breeding very well for me,the woman that owns the exotic shop here breeds all types of roaches, so several other species were available to me.

I chose to use these to put the hard to breed nothing but fat statement to the test,so far its failed to hold up.When the results are done we will see if the fat end of it,stands up or falls flat.As far as size goes the adult T's have no probs with the adult hissers,i bought a few spares when i first started this,the pokies dug them the avics,brachys,ephobop,gramma's,gbb's etc. no probs.The babies are quickly gobbled up by the slings.So far ive seen nothing that holds up to eliminate them as a good feeder source,there may be better choices but they are hardly the terrible hard to breed feeders that has been put forth.When the tests are done we will see what the fat % is sis.


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## packer43064 (Jun 18, 2005)

I always hear that the roaches are better  than crix and everyhting now.

I just think that it depends on what your feeding, like tarantulas maybe they like roaches over crix and they probaly won't eat as many roaches as crix which would save money right?

I though have 3 American Toads and 4 FBT's. ANd I know the American Toads could probaly eat the roaches but I found that the crix would be easier. The roaches have a harder exoskeletons, which could make it hard for the toad to eat and digest it, while the crix are soft and easy to eat.

And my FBT's couldn't ever eat a roach, it just would'nt fit in their mouths. I know what  your thinking, well noone said to use it if the thing you are feeding it to is small, but I still tell people that I have small herps and there's no way it could eat it, but they insist getting roaches.

ANd for one thing crickets don't stink, all of these people saying that crickets end up stinking and such are crazy. The reason for the stink is that there is either dead crix in the enclosure, which you can't do anyhting about, they do die soemtimes, and that they have it over stocked in whatever enclosure their in. Like have 100-200 crix in a large kritter keeper, there' s no way you can have that many in there with out alot dying and it ends up stinking. And I have had 60 adult crix before in a large kritter keeper, and it was fine no stink or barley any dying. You just have to have alot of space for them, which you can add cardboard egg crates in there, and that really helps and that the food is not rotten. You still should pick up any decaying food  and clean at least part of it every few weeks or of coruse it is going to smell.

And the people who do have roaches you can't say that if you don't clean their enclosure or take out any decaying food in a few weeks it's not going to smell. The only reason people say crix smell because they don't take care of their crix and that's the only reason they smell. The crix don't smell it's the enclosure that smells because it is not cleaned good enough. ANd I think that's the whole reason people say crix smell, it's just because they don't responsibility of cleaning it and they just end up sayign that crickets suck and they smell and everything.

I've had crix since I was 7(I am 16 now) when I got my first American Toad. ANd I didn't know about crix really good and didn't clean their tank barely at all, which did make them smell, but it wasn't because the crix smell it was because they were housed poorly and rarely cleaned. ANd for the people just saying crix smell, they need to step up and not just say that crikcets suck, because I bet it was of how they were housed.

I now have 12 thousand small crix in one of the rubbermaid containers, with plenty of egg crates, and is cleaned every few weeks and the decaying water sources are always brung out and it hasn't smelled yet. They have been in there for 2 weeks now and no smell at all.

I also have 200 adult crix in another rubbermaid rub with no smell and egg crates and everything and no smell either. They have been in there for almost a month now and nothing.

Also it depends on how they are sealed. If they have barely any ventilation the ammonia of their waste will build up and make it smell.

I also have reason why I think crix are better than roaches.
1. Crickets are softer than roaches making it easier for some animals to eat crix.
2. They do no escape. (People always say this, and again it's because of how their housed.)
3. You can easily get crix at a petstore, while I have yet to see any roaches as feeders in pet stores.
4. Easy to care for.( Just toss in some water source every few days and your done.)
5. Most people feel more comfortable keeping crix and touching them to feed their animals.

I know it's just preferences upon which to use, and that it really depends on what your feeding your crix or roaches too. I hope everyone reads this and not just pass it by for someone who is absolutely wrong, and think that crix are still a waste of time. I have looked at all of your posts so you all can be nice enough to read it and not comment baddly about it. Not agreeing with me is fine just tell why, just don't say whatever and that it's not my fault that my crix smell. That just shows that your weak and you know the truth about the smell of the crix and that your just denying the truth.


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## becca81 (Jun 18, 2005)

packer43064 said:
			
		

> And the people who do have roaches you can't say that if you don't clean their enclosure or take out any decaying food in a few weeks it's not going to smell.


They don't smell.  I've had the same rubbermaid of roaches since January and I've never actually cleaned it out and they don't smell at all.  I change out the fruit dish about once per week or so and I just add more water bites and they're fine (they also get some dry food).  I don't clean it out or do any other maintenance and there is absolutely no smell at all.  People who have visited and been near the container have told me they had no idea there were roaches there (they also thought they would smell).



			
				packer... said:
			
		

> The only reason people say crix smell because they don't take care of their crix and that's the only reason they smell. The crix don't smell it's the enclosure that smells because it is not cleaned good enough. ANd I think that's the whole reason people say crix smell, it's just because they don't responsibility of cleaning it and they just end up sayign that crickets suck and they smell and everything.


I've kept both crickets and roaches.  Crickets smell within a couple of a weeks and I'm not going to do a complete cage cleaning every few days to keep everything odor-free.  I'd rather spend my time focused on my Ts and their husbandry.  One dead cricket can cause the entire holding area to smell.




> 2. They do no escape. (People always say this, and again it's because of how their housed.)


Yes they do.    Non-climbing roaches (such as B. dubia) escape far less than crickets.  Even my climbing roaches escape less often than crickets.



> 3. You can easily get crix at a petstore, while I have yet to see any roaches as feeders in pet stores.


Most petstores suck.    This is just another reason why.



> 4. Easy to care for.( Just toss in some water source every few days and your done.)


Plus frequent cleaning, which is more time-consuming than roaches.


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## nomad85 (Jun 18, 2005)

*hmm this is regarding the hisser debate*

I have been breeding my hissers for a few months, I have a 100 or so adults and  about 500 nymphs(estimate) I feed the nymphs of to my chameleon and geckos.  Hissers do have a bit more meat to them, but they arent all fat. The white stuff you see when they are crushed or disected is called the fat body, its actually part of how they store their nutrients and energy. 
  To say that hissers are wothless is a personal opinion and cannot be based on facts, If you think that they breed slowly and are full of fat then dont use them, I have seen my colonly double in size in under two months (small nymphs mind you, but thats what I need.) The only roach nutrition data I know of is for the american roach, none of the common feeder roaches have been studied properly yet to my knowlege.
   Also hissers arent really cheap... Mine came from a science lab for free, but online they tend to go for at least a dollar each(seems rediculous to me..) I keep other species including dicoids,losters, and six spotteds. I find that the hissers and lobsters produce the most. I have a few adult hissers that were nymphs 4 months ago. so in my expirence if kept properly they arent slow breeding or growing(normal hissers, Ive heard that the giants grow slower. anyways with proper gutloading and supplementation hissers are in my opinion(and my chameleons) just as good as any other roach.


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## packer43064 (Jun 18, 2005)

Well thn for replying and not being mean about it.

I don't beleive the first part though, your saying that they don't ever need to be cleaned, sorry to say but I highly doubt it.

And crix don't smell within a couple of weeks at all. I already told ya that mine don't. ANd when I said that they need cleaned every few weeks I didn't actually mean like goign outside and getting the hose and
cleaning it alland everything like that. I meant like taking out any dead crix and if ya see a mess clean it up. I haven't cleaned any of my crix enlosures at all. I have had them as is since December when I got the two big rubbermaid bins.

They don't just escape. I ahven't had any escapes yet, I always ahve the lid on and everything. Only reason they escape is because the lid is off or the bin or whatever is not setup right.

Well until I see roaches at a petstores I'm goign to still use and always have crix, their always there.

Frequent cleaning, tell me what ya mean by that. I hardly ever mess with my crix except feeding time for my herps. ANd I bet you do soem cleaning with roaches, there's now ay you just put them in their enclosure and bam their set forever.


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## Bayushi (Jun 18, 2005)

i can say that crickets tend to smell after a day or so, but this might have to do with the conditions the pet store keeps them in.  i mean some places do the minimu care required for animals and even less for feeder animals.   i take all dead crix out when i see them and seeing how i only feed dry food to the crix i know the smell isn't from rotten/rotting food. i have them in a well ventilated enclosure and yet they still begin to stink after a few days. 

 As for roaches.. i dunno.  i don't have any yet so i can't say if they smell or not...


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## packer43064 (Jun 18, 2005)

Well your doing something wrong bayushi. Mine have yet to smell and haven't been cleaned yet. And I put the crix in the tubs in December. I don't know what's wrong.


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## nomad85 (Jun 18, 2005)

*kids...*

"Well thn for replying and not being mean about it.

I don't beleive the first part though, your saying that they don't ever need to be cleaned, sorry to say but I highly doubt it.

And crix don't smell within a couple of weeks at all. I already told ya that mine don't. ANd when I said that they need cleaned every few weeks I didn't actually mean like goign outside and getting the hose and
cleaning it alland everything like that. I meant like taking out any dead crix and if ya see a mess clean it up. I haven't cleaned any of my crix enlosures at all. I have had them as is since December when I got the two big rubbermaid bins.

They don't just escape. I ahven't had any escapes yet, I always ahve the lid on and everything. Only reason they escape is because the lid is off or the bin or whatever is not setup right.

Well until I see roaches at a petstores I'm goign to still use and always have crix, their always there.

Frequent cleaning, tell me what ya mean by that. I hardly ever mess with my crix except feeding time for my herps. ANd I bet you do soem cleaning with roaches, there's now ay you just put them in their enclosure and bam their set forever."


Your never going to see roaches in pet stores, or at least not for a long time... normal invert/herp keepers, would be freaked out by roaches and they really wouldnt sell, plus roaches breed so well that people wont need to buy more from the pet store. Roaches are the cutting edge feeder, so its normal for people to be sceptilcal. I have used crickets for a few years now, and I have had escapes, even with proper housing I make mistakes like droping the feeder cup or somthing else stupid and 20 crix are loose, and they are much harder to catch than feeder roaches, I havent had any roach escapes in the 5 months that ai have been keeping them. I havent cleaned any roach bins out yet, and they do smell, but not bad, they just smell... now crickets smelll terrible and there is no comparing the two, but saying that roaches dont smell is not true, but they dont smell as bad a crickets. Anohter huge plus is life span, crickets live 2 months at best, roaches can live 2 years usaully. and you'll get over 700 nymphs from each female. They thrive on neglect.. try leaving the crickets without food orwater for a few days and they start to eat each other, roaches last at least a week without water and months wihtout food... they are way better. but its up to the individual and what they are comfortable with, but I recomend you give roaches a try, you wont be dissapointed.


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## packer43064 (Jun 18, 2005)

Well thnx Nomad for informing me. I think at time it is ok to use roaches but at other times it is ok to use crickets. LIke if someone had dart species of frogs that barly get to like an inch in length there'n no way it can eat a roach. And only thing you could feed it would be like springtails, fruit flies, and pinheads which would be using the crix way.

ANd thnx for saying that the roaches do smell, I know what ya mean by that, sometimes my crix do have a smell but it's not like it's a bad smell it's just a smell.

And when I meant by escapes, I meant like that they crawl out of the bin or or you had it open and they got out, that would be your fault. I don't mean like you accidentely drop soemthing, that just happens. I've had that before. 

ANd I bet the roaches would be easier because they can only crawl and not jump.

ANd If I could get roaches I would. I can't beleive I'm saying this but I am. You have convinced me to actually try it. I think it would be cool to keep them anyways, I really like breeding any kind of insects.


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## nomad85 (Jun 18, 2005)

packer43064 said:
			
		

> LIke if someone had dart species of frogs that barly get to like an inch in length there'n no way it can eat a roach. And only thing you could feed it would be like springtails, fruit flies, and pinheads which would be using the crix way.


The baby roaches are really small and they could likly be fed to a dart frog. I have a chameleon, that most people only would feed pinheads or fruit flies too, an he handle the little roach nymphs like a champ, there are roaches of all sizes, to fit almost every need. I still use crickets for variety now and then, by big bearded dragon scoffs at them though... he only will take roaches now. Check out a couple sites, like www.blaberus.com or www.bugchick.com they have fair prices.


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## Bayushi (Jun 18, 2005)

i don't believe i am doing anything wrong... i truely feel the crix have an odor to them due to how the pet store keeps them. the smell i get from the crix is the same smell the pet store has. it's not a dead smell it's just a slight odor.

 the pet store here has hundreds if not thousands  stored in 20 gallon tanks. it's the only pet store i have ever been in that has any kind of  foul odor to it.


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## packer43064 (Jun 18, 2005)

Well pet stores are really bad at keeping crickets. That's probaly what is wrong and why they sort of smell.

I am still going to keep my crix, I like them and really like using them.  I'll try to get some roaches though and see what happens.

I would still use pinheads for the dart species, just in case.


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## Vys (Jun 19, 2005)

JustBugs said:
			
		

> The P. niveas (Green Cuban Roaches) are notorious escape artists as adults. With both the ability to fly and climb. Unless you have animals that prefer green prey it's best to stay away from this specie.


Well, my P.niveas don't exactly swarm out of the container when I open it (no one has ever escaped like that), mostly because they are night-active, I'd think, but I have indeed had some escapees, found dead under flowerpots and various other items. Really makes me curious though, for I've seen both half-grown and fully-grown individuals _try_ to escape, without success. 

Eventhough young adults are fast as hell, I'd much rather touch and hold these than B.dubia, or crickets for that matter.

Anyway, they are soft, and I haven't had a spider that normally eats refuse them yet (in contrast to the invincible B.dubias I kept previously), eventhough no spider seems to like the wings, heh. 
To sum up-
They are pretty
They don't survive for long outside of their container (unless you happen to live in New Orleans or Cuba or some such I guess)
They are pretty
They can fly and climb, which they do as often as they dig (as adults), making them quite ideal for arboreals at least.
Last, and most importantly:
They are pretty


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## james (Jun 20, 2005)

*I guess it's my turn.*

Being one of the larger roach breeders out there and also having breed crickets and many other insects here is what I think. Crickets smell when they die. Pet stores crickets stink becasue they do not bother cleaning out the dead crickets. I personally do not care for crickets becasue it takes a lot more time and energy to breed them and keep them clean. When an adult roach dies it usually doesn't smell, but if it does it's easy to remove. When keeping thousands of crickets its much more time consuming to pick out the dead ones, and because there life spans are so short death is part of the game. I never have any roach nymphs die and usually only loose adults to old age. Most of my species live 9-24 months so I have very little deaths occur. I clean every couple of months to seperate out my nymphs, but roaches can be kept for long periods of time (1 year plus) with no cleaning and no smell. There are many species of roaches that can compair to crickets if that's what you want. For example Blatta lateralis are the smae size as crickets, maybe even a little smaller when they first hatch. This roach does not climb,fly,smell, or burrow. It will not chew on your pets if un-eaten and is easy to keep and breed. Many people have mentioned B. dubia which is another great roach. Takes a little more time to establish a colony, but they breed good, are pretty soft as nymphs, and just an all around great feeder for t's, geckos, chams, dragons, etc.. Hissers take a little more time to get going, but they produce large numbers and are good breeders. I think they are a decent food source, but not my first chioce. B. gigantues and B. craniifer are also larger roaches that are good non-climbers to use. Other roaches like lobsters breed very fast and if you have a good set-up to contain them are another great feeder. This is just a few of the many species out there and I'm finding more each month. Hopefully soon when I update the site I'll have more info on the rest. If your happy breeding crickets than I say "good for you", but most of us want something less time consuming so we have more time for our pets. Roaches are expensive, but still much cheaper than feeding the cat or dog which are fed the best foods just like my reptiles.
James
www.blaberus.com

Reactions: Like 1


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## JohnxII (Jun 21, 2005)

Yep dead crix stink, dead roaches don't. And you're a lot less likely to find a dead roach in a colony than dead crickets due to their longevity. May I also add that cricket frass smells quite a bit, while most non-climbing roaches' have little to no smell. However, I find hisser frass has a slight distinctive smell, but a lot less unpleasant than crickets'.

If you keep any T species larger than 6", you can't miss out on roaches. However, I still recommend the keeping of a small cricket colony, for their speedy and "schedulable" reproduction cycle and the size of pinheads for your smallest mantids nymphs, s'lings etc.

P.S. James, did you get that PM I sent a few days back?


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## jtablerd (Jun 21, 2005)

*noob on the rampage*

ok...i have a noob question on the subject and also a noob observation...

my observation (i work @ a small pet store) is that crix are indeed treated like ...oops...crap.... in petstores, for the most part, when theres 5000 of them straight from flukers farms with none deceased they smell......badly.......

my question: i scored a breeding pair of hissers (latin name would be nice to know) today, and have read through this whole thread........what i think ive found on hissers as far as negative comments are basically because they're more of a pain to keep as feeder creatures, not that they are in any way bad for the T's nor does it seem that the t's are unable to eat them (given the sizes are right as far as T:Roach)....am i wrong?   if i just let the hissers bang the days away, and dont mind having them, will the T's be ok with just eating the fruits of the roaches' loins?


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## Bayushi (Jun 21, 2005)

Gromphadorhina portentosa is the scientific name for madagascar hissers.


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## xelda (Jun 22, 2005)

My speculation is that any high fat concentration has more to do with the diet given to the roaches than with their natural anatomy.  It wouldn't surprise me if the females have a higher fat content than males.  There was a study done that shows female G. portentosa prefer protein foods (like a dog biscuit) whereas males will go for carbohydrates (an apple).  The idea is that the females require more protein for reproduction, since it takes a lot to build oothecae, whereas males just need straight energy for their territorial/dominance activities.  The problem is that people tend to feed their roaches cat or dog chow, which is high in protein AND high in lipids.  Lipids are something insects in general are unable to convert into monosaccharides.

If you want more details on the experiment, look up "Sex-Specific Food Preferences in the Madagascar Hissing Cockroach," by James E. Carrel and Elisabeth M. Tanner, printed in the Journal of Insect Behavior, Sept 2002.

Now about those crickets, I don't have a problem with stink.  I don't breed them, so I don't keep a constant supply of food or water in with them.  It significantly cuts down on the poop and moisture.  The crickets end up living longer that way because there's no poop or moisture to harbor deadly bacteria growth.  I was under the impression that pet stores kept their crickets that way too to make clean-up easier.  Smaller crickets (1/2" or less) do need more frequent moisture provided, but other than that, I only feed them when I gutload them.  I get about 2 or 3000 at a time straight from the cricket farmer, so there's no smell there either.  When the crickets die, they dry up instead of becoming squishy, so all I need to do is dump the insides of my bin onto the yard in between shipments.  And then I wash the bin with soap and water every month.


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## TimV (Jun 22, 2005)

> Dr Zuum there is no one who uses hissers as feeders if they have any experience and access to other roaches. people use hissers for one of 3 reasons. They are cheap. They cant find anything else. Or they don't know any better. You have not found anything contradictory to what I have stated. I love being found out to be incorrect. That is where growth comes from. Therefore I do not have to prove I am right you must prove me wrong!


Just a point of order from someone with no knowledge of the subject, but who knows something about basic principles of scholarship.

Digby Rigby is way out of line. He made a claim, was asked to source it, and refuses to do so. Whether he's right in his claim or not has nothing to do with it. He has to put up or back down.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## jtablerd (Jun 23, 2005)

bayushi - thanks for helping a man who is apparently too lazy to use google...

and my feeble attempt at maximizing the proper nutrition for me roaches has me using meat based dog treats (which i'm assuming are high in protein) and using the male's food as my variable...i understand that i am in no way being scientific, but have seperated the feeding area of the terrarium to see who spends how much time where....if and when i find my female, ill report the results....

this thread is making for exceptional discussion and sharing of info, lets not let it degrade - keep the ideas flowin'


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## smokejuan (Jun 23, 2005)

Yes, my question has gotten many good answers and ideas. Unfortunately I did buy the hissers at a killer price because the petstore was tired of them. so I guess I have alot of pet roaches now (about a 100 +) I do have one question I am sure someone can answer. I have been looking around at the suggested roach varieties. Call me cheap but why are the good feeder roaches so expensive. They seem to be prolific breeders. At least Lobster roaches have the word "lobster" in it. Don't seem to be hard to get. What warrants the price?


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## DR zuum (Jun 23, 2005)

smokejuan said:
			
		

> Yes, my question has gotten many good answers and ideas. Unfortunately I did buy the hissers at a killer price because the petstore was tired of them. so I guess I have alot of pet roaches now (about a 100 +) :


Hey bro,dont worry about so called roach fat,  feed them to your animals i am,looks like everybody is grooving on them i've got 3 more females ready to drop so breeding them doesnt seem to be a issue at all.


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## GoTerps (Jun 24, 2005)

> I clean every couple of months to seperate out my nymphs, but roaches can be kept for long periods of time (1 year plus) with no cleaning and no smell.


Hey James, just wanted to comment on that statement.  While many species may hardly produce any odor at all, at least to some people... there are others which I think smell quite a lot.  

My favorite feeder is _Eublaberus prosticus_.  I love keeping them and feeding them.  However I've all but gotten rid of my colony b/c of the strong odor produced.  Some of the _Blaberus_ sps. smell just as bad to me.


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## Bayushi (Jun 24, 2005)

jtablerd said:
			
		

> bayushi - thanks .....


No worries I just happened to be looking at care sheet when i saw you post so i copy pasted...


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## Digby Rigby (Jun 24, 2005)

*Expensive feeders*

The reason  the good feeder roaches as you call them are more expensive is because they are better, breed better, and there is a much higher demand then supply.  Hissers are very slow breeders and growers compared to most Blaberus and Blaptica species and the demand for them as feeders is not as great.  Also the Blaberus species are more nutritious and have a better meat to shell ratio.  Also roaches as a feeder are fairly new compared to the commony available insects.  Also all roaches are expensive to use as feeders when compared to mealworms or crix.  You dont buy roaches as feeders you buy them as breeders then feed what they breed.  You wait until the second generation has grown up and starts producing before you feed so ta you can have a self sustaing colony.  Good species to use are Blaptica dubia, various Blaberus such as fusca, parabolicus, craniifer and discoids among others.  I have seen a drastic drop in demand for orange head roaches due to their proclivity for protein and their stronger odor.  So again people use hissers for the reasons I stated in my earlier post.  People who have experience and access to other roaches and other feeders don't use hissers.  There are also other nonclimbers that out produce lobsters even.  And I will have more soon I just sold 2500 Blatta lateralis.  For the record DR zuum (I like that DR action in your name)  I do not own exoticfeeders.com.

Digby Rigby

DigbyRigby@exoticfeeders.com

http://exoticfeeders.com

My feeders are cooler than your pets!


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## smokejuan (Jun 24, 2005)

DR zuum said:
			
		

> Hey bro,dont worry about so called roach fat,  feed them to your animals i am,looks like everybody is grooving on them i've got 3 more females ready to drop so breeding them doesnt seem to be a issue at all.



Thanks DR zuum, my male blondi does not know what to think of it but he is picky anyway and has strange eating habits....lol They both just cohabitate at this point. I will try the female blondi, tonight....she will eat just about anything. Another question....what can everyone agree on food stuffs for roach diets. The hissers love apples but lobsters are not too excited about them. Hissers will eat flukers criket food...lobsters don't care much for it. I've tried high protein cat chow but man is that stuff hard to break up. does it depend ont the species or is there a general around the house food or purchased food? Sorry dont know much about roaches ang most google searches bring up pest contol...lol and people wanting to sell you their tried and true roach food  but is their stuff what I need to feed.  By the way I have over 100 T's and 6 beard dragons to feed. Those one and two dollar roaches would put me in the poor house quick. It will take one heck of a colony to sustain them. I will probably never get totally away from crix :wall:


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## smokejuan (Jun 24, 2005)

Alright, I will try some of these pricey roaches and see how well they proliferate. Where is the "walmart" of roaches or in other words cheapest american roach dealer. I need a fairly good sized colony. Man I am running out of space.  What is some good ways to house them? Someone dumped off a neglected Iguana a few weeks ago and I have nursed him back to reasonable health but it needs a home and not here I have to much now. I would hate to put him down. Pet stores wont take him I have already tried


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## DanD5303 (Jun 24, 2005)

I bought my lobster roaches from an outfit called Feeder Roaches from Appalachian Reptile Breeders-Clay Davenport is the breeder, I think.  The roaches have bred like crazy and are great feeders. I'd recommend them.   http://roaches.arbreptiles.com/

DanD


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