# Preserving and Pinning



## nepenthes (Dec 17, 2006)

Not sure where to post this or if this will get a bunch of flaming cause I know some of you guys like to bury you're offed pets.

Do any of you guys Like Preserve you're spiders, centipedes, insect pets? Ive been getting into it and was wondering if any one else did it? So far Ive only done it with a few ant species, but Ive wanted to do something bigger, and a little more exotic.

Heck if you're little bugger offs it and you don't mind, You can PM me and we will talk.

If any one has any collections all ready post a picture of your's! Heres mine I just put together I'm waiting for the real supply's to get here from Bioquip. so I'm using make shift items for now! Then more insects will go in so I don't waste my time and have to re do it all. 






;P


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## Scarp172 (Dec 17, 2006)

Well it's a start, right?  I have a large collection that I started when I was younger and am now re-doing and attempting to soften and re-spread some of my larger Lepidoptera, but I can't get to it for pictures at the moment.  I do have two small suggestions for you if you are just getting started with an entomological collection- 1) find a book (I believe there's one called Amateur Entomology or something close to it that's a good place to start) that tells you where to pin, how to pin, how to label, collecting ideas, spreading ideas and such- it pays to do it right the first time, though it does take more time.  2) if you glue a piece of white posterboard to the top of your foam mounts it looks nicer.  I personally preserve my larger "offed" specimens (T's, Scorps) in resin and their exuviums in Riker mounts (great for mantids and Lepidoptera too)  Hope this helps and also that others on the boards are courteous enough not to flame your post.
-Steve


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## nepenthes (Dec 17, 2006)

Thanks, I know some Myrmecologists that I talk to on a forum are just giving me some information who are telling me what to do and how I should do it but ill look into you're book thanks!

I was just worried that people were kinda "close" to their pets and would be offended that I asked and thought to do something like this!


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## AviculariaLover (Dec 17, 2006)

Just do some research, you will be able to find plenty of information online and in books on how to properly pin and label specimens. Good choice with bioquip, I use their stuff, and so does the entomological museum here. I havent pinned any insects I have kept as pets (except for some butterflies and moths I have raised just for my collection) but I have a jar of dead mantids, as well as other various dead insects I either kept or found that I havent gotten around to softening to pin and type up information for. I woulndt be against preserving a pet especially if it expired from natural causes.

Here are my butterflies and moths, have added a few more since then... I have been working on this collection since I was a little kid. Dont take too many each year, just really nice ones.







my shelves


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## nepenthes (Dec 17, 2006)

Whats that one top row third from the right? Just curious. I'm not so into butter flys and moths but Just the Weird looking insects and things along those lines. Nice collection though.


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## xelda (Dec 17, 2006)

Sounds like a fun project.  The only problem is that bugs that have died naturally usually don't preserve as well because they're still rotting.  They end up turning discolored, smelly and whatnot.  At least, that's how it's been for me with bigger specimens.


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## Scarp172 (Dec 18, 2006)

If you have it in captivity and it dies in your care, the key (with larger specimens) is to get it in the freezer quickly.  For most things it's dry enough here that I can let them dry out on the spreading boards and they do just fine (Giant Sphinx moths for example forgive me for forgetting their name at the moment!).  Bioquip is definately good stuff!  And @ Aviclover-Gorgeous collection!  I love the acrylic mounts.
-Steve


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## AviculariaLover (Dec 18, 2006)

nepenthes - the little blue one? Just a commmon eastern blue. 

scarp - Thanks, I love the boxes, they make the insects so nice to display, and they also have little nubs in the corners so they can stack nicely, makes it really easy to store them or display them. They are from bioquip as well.

This summer I plan on extending my collection to different orders, perhaps get some project ideas from my professors.

Anyone here have experience with using chemicals to kill insects? Any tips or suggestions? Or is it good enough to just put things in the freezer. Im wondering what would be quicker and therefore present less damage to the insect during the process.


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## nepenthes (Dec 18, 2006)

Ive seen people use fumigation strips, what I do Is I just pour plaster let it dry and put alcohol in a good sized jar, well thats what I was told to do.


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## xelda (Dec 18, 2006)

Scarp172 said:


> If you have it in captivity and it dies in your care, the key (with larger specimens) is to get it in the freezer quickly.  For most things it's dry enough here that I can let them dry out on the spreading boards and they do just fine (Giant Sphinx moths for example forgive me for forgetting their name at the moment!).  Bioquip is definately good stuff!  And @ Aviclover-Gorgeous collection!  I love the acrylic mounts.
> -Steve


Good point.  I'll have to try that.


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## gunslinger (Jan 1, 2007)

Ethyl acetate is often used to kill specimens for preservation, and can be purchased from BioQuip, or if you want to go the more generic route, pure Acetone (Nail Polish Remover from Wal Mart)  also works rather well.

(if you do use Nail Polish remover try to get pure acetone, and not something with fancy perfumes or color additives)


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## nepenthes (Jan 2, 2007)

Ive found one thing, Female Reproductives are stronger and last longer than Workers, While I had workers survive seconds in alcohol. I had their Reproductive queen last at least 3-4 min's in alcohol. I'm also getting some Pogonomyrmex queens from New Mexico! In Alcohol though.

Ive also gotten the board and pins and things


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## Mr. Mordax (Jan 2, 2007)

If you're looking to preserve something a bit larger than an ant, I soaked my deceased _H. laoticus_ scorpion in pure acetone for about three days before letting it air-dry.  His abdominal region sort of collapsed on itself after the acetone removed all the bodily fluids, but you can't tell if you look at him from the top, and he dried out nicely.  He just smells a little funny is all.


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## roach dude (Jan 7, 2007)

im just wondering if those butterflies are wild caught?????


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## AviculariaLover (Jan 7, 2007)

Yup, all wild caught in NY state, except for the sphynx moth which I sneaked back from a vacation on St. Croix, and the polyphemus moth was found in connecticut  

This past summer was a sucky one for butterflies, I have a few at home still on spreading boards I need to finish up with. I plan on focusing on smaller butterflies and moths that I don't yet have in my collection. The big pretty ones get too easy after a while


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## roach dude (Jan 7, 2007)

to be honest.. i realy dont think thats cool.. so i dont know what that face if for 
Animals and insects and buttterflies should be studied and preserved, in the wild, not pinned onto a bit of polistyrean. I think this is wrong. weather those species are endangered or not, you are helping them on their way!


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## nepenthes (Jan 7, 2007)

Ok, so I can understand if you are talking about endangerd species, that are almost on the brink of extinction, but butterflies that rank in the millions, taking one out is wrong? I really dont see what the problem is now if you were taking 15-20 specimen just for you're self i could see where one would get upset. But  its not like hes just killing them for fun. It is a good way to ID specimen any way. Kind of hard to get up close to an insect and study certain features if its alive. I know this with ants, you cant ID them unless you preserve them or you have some kind of device to contain them in. Unless its a very obvious species. But when you are looking at species like Lasius for example it could get a little tricky.

Roach Dude I'm curious how do you keep animals as pets, that contradicts what you are saying, they should be out in their natural habitat. I'm assuming you have some kind of T' or lizard (display picture)


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## AviculariaLover (Jan 7, 2007)

I agree that insects are best studied in the wild. My collection was something my dad started me with when I was a little kid, he had collected butterflies when he was a child. I don't kill everything I see, I much prefer to watch, or to catch, keep, and release. However, I admit the thrill of the hunt was addicting. I am currently in a university studying entomology (undergrad). I have been having second thoughts about my collection as yes, it was merely for personal satisfaction. I am now considering adding my specimens to my university's collection where they could be useful, which is the second largest in Canada. I will no longer take insects merely for pleasure but for research, I hope to start working on a project this summer, perhaps with the butterflies and moths of my area, but I'm still not sure exactly what my focus will be. I was thinking perhaps a survey of the species of butterflies/moths that I can find in certain habitats, perhaps studying the effects of human intervention (populations on farms vs. backyards vs. mostly wild areas). So I would end up taking specimens, yes. But no longer for nothing. And I know that people will have differing opinions on whether this is ok, but if I am going to be in the entomology field, this is what I will be doing. And, in my opinion, just about any way we go about getting more information on insects is worth it, in order to better inform the rest of the world about them.

And trust me, none of my specimens are endangered. And I have only added a couple specimens per year to my collection the past few years, most of my collecting was done when I was about seven to thirteen years old. Now I mostly like to photograph insects.

How do you feel about university collections, used for research? There is a vast wealth of information that can be gained from dead specimens, as well as doing research in the field. You cannot do genetic testing, or tanonomic work without voucher specimens. There is much to be said for studying evolutionary relationships by studying anatomy. Something I started as a child is now carrying over as I grow older to become something important. If anything, hey, at least I got some practice


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## AviculariaLover (Jan 7, 2007)

And by the way, I'm a girl


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## nepenthes (Jan 7, 2007)

nothing wrong with being a girl! Thats way cool, wish i could meet a girl who wasn't weirded out by my insect interest. I think if it was possible to photograph an insect fast and easy it would be possible for less live collecting to be done. simply collect photograph and release!

I love taking photos too but the species get kind of bland once you have done it in a semi suburban area after a while. hopefully when i graduate i can find a nice warm vast insect fauna to photograph along with what ever else i would do, (want to major in photography)


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## syndicate (Jan 7, 2007)

avic lover i noticed u have one of those praying mantis puppets hehe.i got one of those years back in newyork at the falcon ridge folk festival lol


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## roach dude (Jan 8, 2007)

Yea i think its fine if you useing the specimins for a univerty to study, where many people will study them and this also helps preserve a species. I would also like to go and study entomology in unversity, i find it very intresting. I think more people should use photography to study insects rather than pinning/preserving. It is more hunmain and does not wast life. 

Also to what Nepenthes said about me contridicting my ideas about keeping pets. None of the pets I buy are wild caught. And also how is keeping an animal in a safe enviroment feeding it properly and caring for it right the same as killing a wild animal and pining it for you to study???


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## AviculariaLover (Jan 8, 2007)

Roach dude, in your profile it says you're into "bug collecting" and I'm guessing thats a bit of a lie since you say you dont keep wild pets or pin them? Though I guess you mean just for photography... which can be fun, though I prefer to photograph them when they're in their natural environment, unless I'm keeping one as a pet for a while. I don't keep wild insects in captivity for more than a few days/weeks, generally. Which I have a permit for, in the state of new york, to capture small animals and keep them temporarily for study.

If you are going to study entomology in a university you will be killing plenty of insects. I've known since I was a little kid that I would be doing this, so I figured I'd get in some practice, hehe. I hope what I've done can be useful to somebody some day.


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## roach dude (Jan 8, 2007)

What i mean by "bug collecting" is bugs as pets. But not native wild ones. Stick insects,cockroaches,mantis and other sorts of bugs. And yes i do collect BUgs from outside, but i do the same as you do, mabye keep them in for couple of days and then release them, after i have studied them. BTW just to state 'for the record' im only against the pinning of animals when they are needlessy going to be kept in somebodys house, where they are no use to anybody apart form the person who caught them. If the insect needs to be killed then it should have a purpose behind it, like helping many people study them (like in museums and universitys). And aslong as those species caught are not endanged in any way shape or form. just to clear that one up.


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## gunslinger (Jan 8, 2007)

I collect insects as well and IMO it is the best way to get hands on experience in various fields from taxonomy to anatomy to ecology.  No university or major collection is going to loan out there specimens for one person to do some "personal investigation" into understanding anatomy or taxonomy.  If specimens are taken correctly, it will never be an issue.  In fact I think its much more devastating to populations when people buy wild-caught insects from pet trade companys, as this encourages more and more to be taken, where as an insect collector and entomology student will take one or two samples of a spp to study, and usually will have no need for me.

Either way though, this is just my opinion and I respect all of your rights to have your own opinions as well.


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## roach dude (Jan 9, 2007)

^^^ Fair enough ^^^

but dont you think it would be far easyier to just take photo's rather than needlessly killing beautiful insects?


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## Waspman (Jan 9, 2007)

Identification plays a big part in collecting.

You can't always ID to species from a photo. Even getting the genus right can be tough depending on what the insect is. Some IDs even require the genitalia to be looked at.

Unless you chill the insect and take excellent macro shots of all the characters needed to make an ID, a picture doesn't do a whole lot. Plus, having the actual specimen in hand is the best for future reference rather than photographs.

I'd say the average person kills many more insects through pesticides and carelessness than a collector, who usually just takes what is needed.


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## AviculariaLover (Jan 9, 2007)

Waspman is correct on all counts.

I have several professors who are studying a few families of very tiny flies. One of the only ways to identify them is by their internal genitalia. So obviously the insects must be collected and killed and dissected. 

And personal collections can be extremely useful someday *IF* the proper information is recorded. The collection on my campus was started by a man who collected for his own pleasure, yet he had all the necessary  information to make them valuable specimens after they were donated to the university. If the insects simply end up in someone's attic, and not much was gained from their deaths, then they were wasted. But even a child's butterfly collection can be useful if they are properly labeled and end up being donated to a university or museum collection. 

So what I'm trying to say is... even if insects are taken and pinned simply as a hobby, or for personal knowledge, as long as they are properly labeled they have the potential to be useful if they are donated to a collection. And even if they aren't really useful, or are specimens most places have enough of, they could still be used for educational displays in museums.


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## arachnocat (Jan 17, 2007)

AviculariaLover said:


> Waspman is correct on all counts.
> even if insects are taken and pinned simply as a hobby, or for personal knowledge, as long as they are properly labeled they have the potential to be useful if they are donated to a collection. And even if they aren't really useful, or are specimens most places have enough of, they could still be used for educational displays in museums.


I agree. Insect collections from years ago are highly sought after by researches because it gives them an overview of what species were around at the time. If you keep good records that is. A lot of people collect framed butterflies just because they are pretty. That's ok too I guess. A friend of mine has a huge butterfly display. It's pretty impressive. Also, bug collections are always educational. Some people who are afraid of live bugs find dead ones  interesting.


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## P.jasonius (Feb 6, 2007)

Wouldn't it be interesting if religious/moral/ethical doctrine prevented us from killing in order to study.  We would be forced to progress technologically to satisfy our curiousity of the various life on our planet, creating new tools that allow us to observe the function of organisms as they live, not as they are dead or dying.  
I believe that the information gained from studying the torture of life is no different than the information gained from Nazi scientists during and preceding WWII from human life.  
To state that human life is higher than or more important than other life is based on the Abrahamic religions, where the belief is upheld that the animals on the planet were created for the use of man.  
I also believe that it is ok to 'pin' an animal if you have observed its life cycle, given it an opportunity to perpetuate itself via procreation, and allowed for a natural death.  I myself collect specimens for deadstock toward the end of the season (this is subjective), and usually find enough dead or dying specimens to satisfy a growing collection.  
I read that entomologists recently 'fogged' a tree somewhere in S. America and found something like 80 new genera of beetle.  They're all dead, though.  Nothing can be learned from their behavior.  "Waste of life is not logical." (Kirk to Mr. Spock)


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## roach dude (Feb 6, 2007)

^ so right ^


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## AviculariaLover (Feb 6, 2007)

I don't belive animals were put here for humans, not at all. Especially being an entirely unreligious person. But I think that since we have taken over the planet, it's our duty to learn about our responsibilities.

Let's face it, there are so many insects on the planet, with such high reproductive rates, that the amount taken for study have no effect on populations. What has *more* effect are things like logging, tourism, pollution, insecticide use, agriculture, and general habitat destruction. I guess theres a different between intentionally killing an animal and it happening as a byproduct of other behaviors, but to me, they amount to the same thing. I'd rather see an insect die for research, than see forests being logged or people casually throwing pesticides on their lawns to keep them a vibrant lush green. The more we know about insects, the more we can do to help them, and help save their environments. We need to test insects with insecticides to develop better pesticides for agriculture. We need to do tests to prove we should ban certain pesticides. We need to do tests and take samples to see how logging effects populations, in order to better advise logging companies about their practices (something one of my professors is working on).

If we can show people specimens, up close, and impress them, and interest them, they might start to take notice. People want to save whales because they're cool and big and impressive. They want to save panda bears because they're cute, they want to save tigers because they're beautiful. Most people don't give a crap about insects. But with educational programs, with museums, with collections that can impress people, and with researchers to provide more and more information, who knows what kinds of progress can be made. There are so many beautiful insects in tropical regions that will be lost along with all the trees. Yes some of this can be accomplished with photography, but when you actually see something with your own eyes it means so much more. Yes a lot of research being done is simply for our own selfish gain of knowledge, our own curiosity. But take this into account as well: with global warming, the earth is going to go through hell in the next few hundred years. And a lot of these animals might not be around anymore. And wouldn't it be nice to have a few on hand, to remember what once was? Could you imagine a museum filled simply with photographs? Nearly anyone will tell you that it's nearly impossible to identify something to species with a photograph, they always ask to see the actual specimen. With what we want to know, we have to do things people may find morally objectional. I love insects, and I honestly don't have a problem seeing a few die in order to potentially help others. It's so fascinating to walk into the insect museum here, to look at the specimens, to get a feel for the real diversity. It's mind blowing, really. And that's what we need to do, if we are to get more people interested enough in entomology to perhaps use it as a conservationalist standpoint. And reading numbers, ho hum, who cares. But *seeing* the numbers... is different.

There are so many other problems we need to address, like logging and tourism in mexico that's killing off the monarch butterflies, like rampant pesticide use in developing countries, that its hardly worth it to attack researchers. Because face it, the world isnt going to step up to some magical moral high ground overnight. I spend some time on the animal liberation front website, browsing around, and they have plenty of ideas that could never happen in the real world, no matter how grand and moral they might be, no matter how perfect the world would then become.

No, animals werent put here for us. No, we shouldnt torture them. However, we're torturing many of them simply with our existence. And I think any knowledge gained can be useful.

So perhaps the average collecter should lay off the pins and pick up a camera instead. Thats what I did. But not all the knowledge we need can be learned simply from behavior. We need DNA, we need to learn about morphology. You could know everything about human behavior but until you cut one up, you won't know how a person really ticks.

And if entomologists simply waited around to find dead specimens, well, nothing would get accomplished. That is unless they would just sit there neatly and not decompose :}


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## xelda (Feb 6, 2007)

I think a few of you are neglecting a few major points here.  Entomology fundamentally rests on being able to have preserved specimens for study.  Without these specimens, we would not be able to differentiate between species.

It's hard to think about that when you might just be used to seeing the giant bugs of the world, but the vast majority of insects are actually pretty darn small.  They have to be looked at under a microscope just to identify them down to the family.  That includes having to count the number of tarsi on the legs, compare wing veins, mouthparts, and a lot of other itty bitty details.  When that's not good enough, sometimes you have to cut them up to do molecular analysis.  And that's just getting it down to the family level, which in itself is very broad.  For example, look at the cockroach family Blaberidae.  It encompasses a HUGE variety of roaches of all different colors, shapes, and sizes.  Probably all of the cockroaches you own belong to this family.  Green banana roaches, lobster roaches, Blaptica dubia, Eublaberus, Surinam roaches, and all of the hissers are in the family Blaberidae.  But Blaberidae is only one family out of several families of cockroaches.

You know when you walk outside on a hot day and see a ton of little flies all over the place?  You're probably seeing at least a dozen different fly familes right there even though they all look the same with the naked eye.  Like I said.  You already have to look under a microscope most of the time just to identify insects down to the family level.  If you want to identify down to the species level, you have to look at their genitalia.  This is not the kind of information you can get just from looking at a picture, no matter how good you are with macro.

Let's say you're out bug collecting and you discover a new species of insect.  You're going to have to collect and preserve specimens in order to catalog them; otherwise, there won't be an official record of that species.  You also won't be able to prove that it indeed is a new species unless you've got preserved specimens so people can look at their genitalia and make sketches for future reference.

Yes, insect behavior is a fantastic thing to study, but it's only a small branch of entomology.  Try browsing websites of the different entomology departments in the U.S.  Very, very few of them even have anybody who works specifically on studying behavior.  The reason why is because it's not a field that easily gets enough funding unless the research is pest-related.

If you plan on studying entomology when you get to college, you may want to think twice.  Your lab grade is going to depend entirely on collecting and killing hundreds of insects.  If you have no experience with pinning or mounting insects, then you're going to mess up several times and have to go catch more.  It's sad, but it's entomology.  It's also not going to change because as we learn more and more about insects, it becomes even more important to have well-preserved and well-documented specimens.  Everything we know scientifically about insects depends on it.


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## P.jasonius (Feb 6, 2007)

What I'm saying is that if we had a different mindset, and were limited by ethics and values, we would develop newer and more sophisticated technology to study within those parameters.  For instance, you need a fly specimen documented, a scanning microscope with MRI capabilities could detail the specimen throughout, all while the subject is unconscious from 'fly nap'.  Think of the databases that could be compiled if this were to transcend to other animals.  This is just an example, and one that is realistic with current technology, just not economically viable.  I am not deluding myself into thinking that we live in a world that understands this way of thinking, no.  We live in a world where budget determines what is studied, and therefore those with money decide what is and is not significant (does this make sense?).   Everything we know has depended on [preservation], but to suggest that this way is not to be called into question is against the scientific process.  I wasn't even suggesting that we don't preserve specimens, nor was I questioning its validity.  I am suggesting that it is an antiquated and barbaric practice, that should and would become obsolete if our society were based on something more logical than the acquisition of money.
This hypothetical philosophy would slow our progression, this is true, but would also push it forward into a new tangent. To clarify, my interjection was a hypothetical, just something to think about.  Food for the open mind, if you will.

Avic lover:  -I wasn't suggesting that entomologists sit around and wait for dead or dying specimens, I was suggesting that collector's do this.  
-Don't even get me started on the logging industry. 
 -I can't agree more that indiscriminate use of lawn pesticides has a tremendous impact on the ecology.  I've witnessed the end of the texas based horned lizard in my area due to this.  Very disheartening.  I agree with you that education can diminish this somewhat, but by using dead specimens to educate may be sending a profound message, in a psychological sense: the only good insect is a dead insect.  There is a science museum in Seattle (can't remember the name off the top of my head) which has a live exhibit.  Again, money comes into play; who has the budget to maintain this when deadstock is cheap.


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## P.jasonius (Feb 6, 2007)

Ughh.  I forgot why I was even looking at this thread.  
Does anyone know exactly what is needed to make clear acrylic specimen mounts?


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## Ganoderma (Feb 6, 2007)

Anyone here have any opinions or experience dry mounting grasshoppers?  what do you do to fix the colours, i don't like black specimens.  would soakign in formalin for a day or 2 help?  any thoughts would be great.

i have got some uropygi, scorpions, beetles, and hoppers in my collection.  i usually only pin larger insects and preserve most small and all spiders in liquids.

PS.  the first poster, look into labelling.  i know its probably just for fun but "front yard"  isn't good enough for locality   If you are sending to museum i think most prefer you not to ID it as it could be wrong and misleading.  i usually just write location, date, name and soemtimes breif habitat description.

i would really like to find a way of dry mounting spiders withough shriveling, if someone can show me that i would be VERY greatfull!  plasticising, not making casts, sounds interesting but i dont know how.


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## Mr. Mordax (Feb 7, 2007)

I know you can cut some things open (from the underside), gut them, and stuff them full of cotton.  Also helps with preventing decomposition.  I think I red somewhere that boiling water, taking it off the heat, and placing a specimen in the hot-but-not-boiling water fixes the exoskeleton protiens and prevents them from turning black.  Worth a try, I suppose.

And as for label locality, most collections I see list the state and county.


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## Ganoderma (Feb 7, 2007)

i have heard that as well, but never tried it with anything other than beetle larva.  i shall try it.

county is a little vague as i see it.  from what i understand mst places want directions to the spot "XX KM from *landmark*".  people i have talked to say ultimatly GPS coords are best, but not always feasible.  still, front yard copuld be anywhere on this globe


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## AviculariaLover (Feb 7, 2007)

As a little kid my dad told me to write my name, date, location (and since the butterflies were pretty much all caught at home, I simply wrote my full address), and the common and scientific name. Volunteering at the lyman museum I now know how to make labels correctly, but since I have enough information glued inside the boxes, if I wish to do something with my collection, I could type up new labels to put on the pins. Though a quick description of the habitat would help as well.


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## myrmecophile (Feb 7, 2007)

State and county for labels is for the most part totally unacceptable these days. Such information would be considered of little to no value. The problem with using locations which are too general is that there are often times several locations with the same name within a state or even given county, sometimes with entirely different habitats. Additionally many of these older collecting sites no longer exist as they once did having been overcome by urban cancer. For my labels I use country state county then a more specific location then Lat/Long plus date elevation Since I deal mostly with ants a sample gets pinned along with additional in alcohol. Because it is necessary to relate the dry  material with the wet each sample gets a unique collecting number.
As for retaining color, you can try acetone, Dragon fly collectors often soak their specimens in it to retain color.


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## Ganoderma (Feb 7, 2007)

yes i have used it with dragon flies and sometimes i get a small shrivel.  i have soem LARGE grasshopers i wold very much like to keep the full body shape and colour.  will acetone fix the colour or just delay blackening?

thanks


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## Mr. Mordax (Feb 7, 2007)

I used acetone for a large scorpion (_Heterometrus_ sp.) and it worked OK.  Except, if you look at him from the side, he's completely flattened -- like it liquifed the guts and sucked them out.


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## Dorcus (Feb 7, 2007)

I'm probably going to start a controversy by saying this, but for species with "bigger bodies", it is best to use a fine syringe, and suck out all of the liquid inside their abdomen, and then inject with formalin...


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## Ganoderma (Feb 7, 2007)

i want to prevent the dehydration...

mmm i don't think you will start anything.  when doing reptiles/amphibians you have to slit and inject stuff, its just ugly.  so are you saying that formalin will in fact fix the colours of DRY specimens???  if so you could shape first then soak, no?  in my experience formalin has made them super brittle.


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## Dorcus (Feb 7, 2007)

I said it'd start something because formalin is a carcinogen... anyways, yes, first position (Either that, or immediately position after injection). Then inject some formalin into every leg, and that should keep the position.

BTW if specimens become too brittle, it's usually because the solution is too strong. Try diluting it.


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## myrmecophile (Feb 7, 2007)

As far as I know formalin will not fix bright colors. Additionally as mentioned it is a known carcinogen and will be difficult to find as a result. Since I do not routinely collect hoppers I have not tried acetone to fix them but since it works for Odonates it should work on hoppers. Personally I have never had a large grasshopper shrink but the "guts can be removed and the resulting cavity stuffed if you wish. In many cases removal of the guts is more to reduce the chance of a foul smell than anything else.


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## Dorcus (Feb 7, 2007)

Hm... it doesn't keep the bright colors? Oh well, I usually use it for larger species of beetles, tarantulas, and scorpions... works well with those...as for amphibians and reptiles... it's best to cast a mold... i think...


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## Ganoderma (Feb 9, 2007)

hmm thanks.  i will try both formaline (i will buy formaldahyde and dilute myself) and acetone for the hoppers.  but many arthropod groups have different preservative reactions, so being ok for dragon flies may nto mean a lot.  i will try though thanks!

I may try injecting, it has a large abdomen that will likely cave, so i probably should.


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## Ganoderma (Feb 13, 2007)

for future reference.  be carefull what type of plastic you use with acetone....i should have read into it more.  i hat ethe stuff so even more reason to read about it.  anyway it completely melted my palstic jar and COMPLETELY fried my hopper...i thought it would be ok seen as it is sold in plastic bottles, but a different kind of plastic clearly.


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## Mr. Mordax (Feb 13, 2007)

Heheh . . . I didn't want to melt anything (not even thinking that some is stored in plastic), so I bought a ceramic dish to do the soaking in.  But next time, I'm flushing the post-soak stuff down the toilet.  I kinda melted my sink that I THOUGHT was ceramic, but was apparently some variety of plastic.  :8o 

Here's hoping the landlord doesn't notice.


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## Ganoderma (Feb 13, 2007)

haha...

makes me second guess latex gloves as well...


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## Mr. Mordax (Feb 13, 2007)

Just wash your hands a lot during the process . . . the stuff really dries out your skin, especially if it's pure.


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## nepenthes (Feb 14, 2007)

So I got a bunch of specimine 10-15 ants, some have alates. And Im almost scared to try and take them out and pin them.


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## myrmecophile (Feb 14, 2007)

Remember, you do not actually put the pin thru them but mount (glue) them on paper points.


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## nepenthes (Feb 14, 2007)

Yea I know. I use actual pins though they don't pierce through he ant. just dab it right under the Mid section.


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