# Killing rats/mice with CO2



## Snipes (Mar 9, 2007)

A friend of mine is going to be breeding rats for her snakes and she wants me to kill them for her. I dont mind killing them for her, but I want to know whats the best way to kill them with C02? I know that when they are killed that way they go to sleep and dont wake up. Should they just be put in an airtight container with food and water for a few days?


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## Cirith Ungol (Mar 9, 2007)

Snipes said:


> A friend of mine is going to be breeding rats for her snakes and she wants me to kill them for her. I dont mind killing them for her, but I want to know whats the best way to kill them with C02? I know that when they are killed that way they go to sleep and dont wake up. Should they just be put in an airtight container with food and water for a few days?


No. When killing with CO2 you should buy a bucket with a lid, and make a hole to the side near the top. Make a hole into the top also so you can put a hose through, because you'll need to buy a CO2 bottle (compressed gas bottle) and slowly fill the bucket up. Killing by slow self-asphyxiation is... not the best way.


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## Bulldog08 (Mar 9, 2007)

You can also use dry ice to produce the CO2.  It’s probably cheaper than a tank, unless you are going to be killing lots.  If they aren’t too big you can just snap their necks, cervical dislocation.  CO2 works better for bigger ones though.


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## Snipes (Mar 9, 2007)

ah, thank you for the advise!


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## K-TRAIN (Mar 9, 2007)

i wouldnt use a gas, id just smack them against a table to stun/kill them. its easier and quicker.


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## Cirith Ungol (Mar 9, 2007)

In case  you don't like the idea of smacking them... you could actually let mouse traps do the work for you, though in the process you might find out if they actually work as well as one is oftentimes led to believe.


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## Snipes (Mar 9, 2007)

Cirith Ungol said:


> In case  you don't like the idea of smacking them... you could actually let mouse traps do the work for you, though in the process you might find out if they actually work as well as one is oftentimes led to believe.


I have a feeling that you know more but arent telling.... lol, do traps do a good job?


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## Gigas (Mar 9, 2007)

I worked in a vetrinary lab for a week, Co2 killing was by far the easiest methid but most time consuming, since the  Co2 is heavier than air the had a lidless steel box with 4 inlet tubes at the bottom, this pumped in CO2 till it covered the mouse (Happened in under a second)  the mouse quickly goes to sleep. neck snapping (didn't do it too much because it bruised the brain) was really difficult to get the hang of and every one  told me for the first few times they did it they didn't snap the neck properly and had a  lopsided mouse runnning around etc etc. I didn't do it because the trial and error way of learning it didn't appeal to me at th etime but once its learnt it works all the time. They did it by  placing the mouse on the table and placing a metal rod just behind the skull on the neck vertebrae  then grabbing the mouses tail and pulling it back over the bar folding the back over the head and severing the spinal column. determining the amount of force needed to hold the mouse down and pull is something that needs to be learnt and can be a rocky road of mistakes. I like Cirith's idea but as he hints you would need a strong springed mouse trap the bar of which needs to land on the neck vertebrae this would cruch them and hopefully sever the column but if it doesn't your left with a brain damaged mouse in alot of pain all squirming around.


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## Cirith Ungol (Mar 9, 2007)

Gigus said:


> but if it doesn't your left with a brain damaged mouse in alot of pain all squirming around.


Yup. And taking a squirming mouse out of a mouse trap... not the most fun thing I'd guess.

CO2'd be the way to go I'd imagine.


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## Bulldog08 (Mar 9, 2007)

I worked in a lab that used mice/rats... just a word of advice, if the rat is too big and you try to snap its neck by pulling its tail while pinching its neck( cervical dislocation) there is a good chance the tail will pull off.  This makes an ungodly mess.  Cervical dislocation works fine on small rats/mice though.  It does take practice.


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## Gigas (Mar 9, 2007)

Bulldog08 said:


> if the rat is too big and you try to snap its neck by pulling its tail while pinching its neck( cervical dislocation) there is a good chance the tail will pull off.  This makes an ungodly mess.  Cervical dislocation works fine on small rats/mice though.  It does take practice.


That does not sound like a nice scene, I only worked on mice so this didn't happen when I was there.


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## Taceas (Mar 9, 2007)

If you smack them too hard, it makes a mess. 

Personally I don't have access to dry ice consistently and I don't want to build a chamber as I don't generally do that many mice at once. I just have gotten the knack down on how to flick their heads just right it kills them. 

Although if you're interested in building your own CO2 chamber, this has been used by a few fellow corn snake hobbyists of mine and works well.

http://www.thereddragonsden.com/co2.htm

Death by self-suffocation is a slow and agonizing death, please don't do that. 

Alternately if you're euthanizing pinkies or fuzzies, they are pretty smother resistant (they have to be), so the best way to euthanize those is to simply arrange them in a shallow bowl and put them directly into the freezer. It doesn't take but a minute or two before its over.


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## GartenSpinnen (Mar 10, 2007)

Why not just get a good pair of tongs, take the rat or mouse with the tongs, shove it down in a bucket of water for a few minutes, pull it out its all dead and such? Or maybe just devise something you can tie to there feet that will make them sink to the bottom and then just walk away for a few minutes, come back and the deed is done? Want a cheap way to make CO2? take 4 or 5 2 liter soda bottles, drill a hole in the tops of the lids of them and silicon in aquarium airline tubing and connect them all to an airtight bucket or box or whatever your going to use. Fill each bottle up with 2 cups sugar, and a few good sprinkles of yeast. Pour the  bottles up about 3/4 of the way with warm water, mix them up REALLY good, let it sit for about 12 hours or so, and it will supply you with a steady supply of CO2 for about a week. Key points here... it actually can create a pretty decenty supply of CO2 (you would be suprised) the more sugar you add to the solution, the longer the CO2 supply will last, the more yeast you add the stronger it will be but it wont last as long. Dont go over 2 cups of sugar or 2 tbps of yeast. The CO2 generated will create a good deal of pressure inside the bottles, enough that if you take a cap that hasnt had a hole drilled in it and put it on the bottle and forget about it you will have one hell of a mess....


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## GartenSpinnen (Mar 10, 2007)

Its kinda hard to explain, hope this helps... Also, make sure you silicon your airline tubing connections very well and let them dry real good. When you silicon the pop caps make sure you silicon the tops and bottoms of the pop caps. The smaller the container you put the mouse or rat in the more effective it will be, also shaking up the bottles real good will help create a large supply of co2 very quickly.


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## GailC (Mar 10, 2007)

I've used vinegar and baking soda to produce CO2 before, was kinda messy but killed the pinks in just a couple minutes and was very cheap.  
For adults I just use a bag and smack method but I'm afraid of what would happen if I try it with babies.


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## Thoth (Mar 11, 2007)

I'm not fan of CO2, take a while and really isn't all that painless a method. 
Cervical dislocation was quick, and with adult rats the only issue I've had was the skin on the tail coming off.


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## mischaaussems (Mar 11, 2007)

carbonmonoxide also works well, It works great for people, first they fall asleep and then die. If you own a car, connect a hose from your exhaust to an airtight container. Should't take longer than 5-10 minutes.


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## Cirith Ungol (Mar 11, 2007)

mischaaussems said:


> carbonmonoxide also works well, It works great for people, first they fall asleep and then die. If you own a car, connect a hose from your exhaust to an airtight container. Should't take longer than 5-10 minutes.


You are forgetting, it's not pure carbonmonoxide that comes out of the exhaust of a car... There's a lot of other stuff also that you'd certainly not want in and on your feeder animals.


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## Bulldog08 (Mar 11, 2007)

ya dont use a tail pipe... maybe this would work.
http://www.knifecenter.com/knifecenter/cas/me48g.html


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## Nich (Mar 14, 2007)

I use a 32 oz paint ball tank (bout $20) and a 5 gallon bucket. Jet need a reg from a dive shop and some co2 line. The cheapest and most efficient way as a fillup lasts a very very long time and costs about $5 at the local paintball store.


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## becca81 (Mar 14, 2007)

shammer4life said:


> Why not just get a good pair of tongs, take the rat or mouse with the tongs, shove it down in a bucket of water for a few minutes, pull it out its all dead and such? Or maybe just devise something you can tie to there feet that will make them sink to the bottom and then just walk away for a few minutes, come back and the deed is done? .


I think the point here is to reduce suffering as much as possible.  Just because you walk away and don't have to watch the mouse drown, doesn't mean that it isn't any less cruel.


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## Hedorah99 (Mar 14, 2007)

mischaaussems said:


> carbonmonoxide also works well, It works great for people, first they fall asleep and then die. If you own a car, connect a hose from your exhaust to an airtight container. Should't take longer than 5-10 minutes.


You've also just coated the mouse in all the toxins that come out of the exhaust of your car as well. And the idea is to kill them quickly, not maybe in 5 or 10 minutes.


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## Hedorah99 (Mar 14, 2007)

CO2 is the way to go. Like Nich said, you can get a tank from a paintball supply store very cheaply and the gas itself is very in expensive. Failing that, find some dry ice, as it evaporates it will fill teh chamber with CO2 and push out any oxygen. Both are methods used by rat breeders for mass humane euthanization. I have done the paper bag and and the smack against a hard counter before. If you hit the rat hard enough it should be killed instantly, but this can be messy and not a sure fire method of putting the rat down.


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## Snipes (Apr 22, 2007)

well she sprung it up on me so i killed two pinkies/almost fuzzies by using a butter knife dull edge against the neck and snapping them up into a "u" by the back legs and tail. I didnt have time to do the yeast/sugar/bottle thing, a neato idea. I did not hear or feel a snap, but they immdiately started twitching and urinating. After about 30-45 seconds the twitching stopped. I could see a large bruise forming around their necks. Did I do it right? Also, she will want me to kill them when they are juvies, a little larger than a mouse. Will the same method work, just with more force? Will the back of a butter knife suffice like with the babies?
btw, all your CO2 suggestions were pretty cool, my friend actually decided she is going to stop and go back to frozen because she can't stand the smell, so lucky me!


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## Thoth (Apr 22, 2007)

The method works better with older mice/rats than pinkies. Though you method was a little off, The motion is more to pull the body away from the skull (see below)



			
				 Stanford Univ. Animal Labs said:
			
		

> IV. Method
> 
> 1. Restrain the rodent in a normal standing position on a firm, flat surface and grasp the tail with one hand.
> 
> ...


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## Texas Blonde (Apr 22, 2007)

I was able to seperate the vertebrae of mice very easily by a similar method to what Thoth posted.  I would hold the mouse in the air by its tail, and then lower it down so it could just grab the edge of a wooden box with its front legs.  It would pull forward, extending the neck perfectly.  Then one good wack right on the back of the neck with a screwdriver handle, and the mouse was dead.  I never had a problem with partial paralysis, like I did with the bag and whack method.


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## Snipes (Apr 22, 2007)

ah, so how do i know that i did it right? What are the signs after snapping that it was done (relatively) quickly and hopefully humanely.


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## Nich (Apr 23, 2007)

Snipes said:


> ah, so how do i know that i did it right? What are the signs after snapping that it was done (relatively) quickly and hopefully humanely.


Immediate death. Muscle spasms after death can occur for afew minutes. Usually the limbs go ridged then slowly relax in 10-30 seconds, I would say the hand to hand kombat......is the most effective. But it really wears on you after few months. I perfer the "auschwitz" method if you have alot of mouths to feed, and the hands for a few a week. the My preference about the ausch. method is that if you have a nice freezer (low temp) you can freeze a month or more's worth at a time with minimal effort/time.


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## moose35 (Apr 24, 2007)

this might be creul to some . but i use the pluck method.
 1. hold mouse by tail.(hold with non-dominate hand)
 2. let mouse dangle
 3. then pluck mouse on head and they die instantly

 you might have to practice once or twice. but you'll find the spot.

 pretty much same as smacking mouse on any hard surface method. but with less chance of the mouse flying across room.


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## slimtim454 (Apr 26, 2007)

shammer4life said:


> Or maybe just devise something you can tie to there feet that will make them sink to the bottom and then just walk away for a few minutes, come back and the deed is done?


Ah yes, the old "sleeping with the fishes" routine?


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