# getting too advanced spids



## paul fleming (Jan 13, 2010)

After all the arguments of late 
Just wondered if anyone thought a lot of people were running before they could  walk ?
It sure seems that way to me.
Although I now keep the more dangerous kind of T (and scorp and true spid),I did start off with an L.parahybana


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## spiderfield (Jan 13, 2010)

I personally don't think so.  I think thats just normal behavior: You want something, you get it.  If you want to have experience keeping something, what better way to gain that first-hand than by doing it?  I, myself, started out with a _C. crawshayi_ (courtesy of Paul Becker a decade ago ), and then a couple _G. rosea_ and _T. blondi_ not too long after that.


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## forrestpengra (Jan 13, 2010)

I think its arguable either way...

I don't think a person newer to the hobby should have their first purchase be a pokie, but then again, if they feel like they can handle it then fine.

I've been keeping 5-6yrs and I am just now considering getting my first pokie.  I respect them for their speed just as much as their bite.  But I think a responsible/careful person can keep anything successfully regardless of their experience.  That being said they should be conscious of good 'learning' choices.


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## Avicularia Man (Jan 13, 2010)

All 5 of my T's are beginner T's, so I can't relate.


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## Exo (Jan 13, 2010)

I think people want to jump into the more advanced species so they can feel like a "Bad@$$".


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## redrumpslump (Jan 13, 2010)

Exo said:


> I think people want to jump into the more advanced species so they can feel like a "Bad@$$".


Or they just want unique t's. This thread already seems its just gonna break out in argument again. Awesome :?


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## Avicularia Man (Jan 13, 2010)

redrumpslump said:


> Or they just want unique t's. This thread already seems its just gonna break out in argument again. Awesome :?


When I get an "advanced T", that will be why I get it. I simply want something different.


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## redrumpslump (Jan 13, 2010)

Avicularia Man said:


> When I get an "advanced T", that will be why I get it. I simply want something different.


Exactly. Is it just me or lately has it just seemed like every body wants to break out into a huge argument over anything. Seriously what happend to helping people out. Back to the subject. I have a couple of "advanced t's" and ive only been in the hobby for bout 2 months and mine are doing fine. 

Matt


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## spiderfield (Jan 13, 2010)

I wouldn't even call them "advanced Ts", as I think it implies you need certain qualification to keep them (which you definitely don't).  "Expensive Ts" sounds more like it to me.    Be that as it may, if you're a responsible person, you have the money, and you want something different...by all means, don't let anyone stop you.

On the flip-side...if you don't think a person is deserving of such a T...buy it up before they do.


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## redrumpslump (Jan 13, 2010)

spiderfield said:


> I wouldn't even call them "advanced Ts", as I think it implies you need certain qualification to keep them..."expensive Ts" sounds more like it to me.   Be that as it may, if you're a responsible person, you have the money, and you want something different...by all means, don't let anyone stop you.
> 
> On the flip-side...if you don't think a person is deserving of such a T...buy it up before they do.


Touche spider touche. Why does certain people on here think they have the right to tell people what to buy and what not to buy. All we need is a little r.e.s.p.e.c.t. . Seriously tho i think everyone just needs to chill with the bickering. A hobby is suppose to be fun. 

Matt


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## Shell (Jan 13, 2010)

redrumpslump said:


> Touche spider touche. Why does certain people on here think they have the right to tell people what to buy and what not to buy. All we need is a little r.e.s.p.e.c.t. . Seriously tho i think everyone just needs to chill with the bickering. A hobby is suppose to be fun.
> 
> Matt


I think that alot of the time it's just that the more experienced keepers don't want to see someone get hurt. A question is asked, they give their opinion. I'm not trying to bicker  That's just how I see it. You're right, a hobby is supposed to be fun, and personally I love these boards, lots of great people here.


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## Xian (Jan 13, 2010)

redrumpslump said:


> All we need is a little r.e.s.p.e.c.t. Matt





Shell said:


> You're right, a hobby is supposed to be fun, and personally I love these boards, lots of great people here.


From Aretha above to The Beach Boys, "Fun, Fun, Fun"!


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## spiderfield (Jan 13, 2010)

redrumpslump said:


> A hobby is suppose to be fun.


Yes!  Couldn't have said it better myself!


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## Redneck (Jan 13, 2010)

I been in the Hobby since August of 09... I have 3 P. regalis slings and 10 P. murinus slings.. Though they may not be the most advanced T's but I only got them because I wanted different Sp...


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## paul fleming (Jan 13, 2010)

I personally think that anyone should be able to get ANY spider they feel comfortable with.....after lots of research for their benefit and the spiders.
I used to hate it when I started........people telling......that is too advanced....get a chile for starters and work your way up.
This is a hobby not a university course.This is for our enjoyment.
I agree that there are some difficult and not very friendly spiders out there but after you research......you can only gain experience by on job training 
My 2 cents (2 pence...lol) worth anyway


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## Tindalos (Jan 13, 2010)

remember some people who buy umm i would call it tarantulas "that need more attention" for their first T, have kept other exotics before. 

jus something to remember 
but doesnt apply to all case


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## paul fleming (Jan 13, 2010)

I agree.
I used to point out that I had snakes a long time before I had spids.....and birds of prey a long time before I had snakes......they still advised a chile rose


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## redrumpslump (Jan 13, 2010)

Yea well alot of the people who have been in this hobby for a long time thinks everyone should have rosea. I think there such plain and boring looking t's.


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## paul fleming (Jan 13, 2010)

redrumpslump said:


> Yea well alot of the people who have been in this hobby for a long time thinks everyone should have rosea. I think there such plain and boring looking t's.


Exactly the same with snakes mate.....I got a corn for my first through advice although I really wanted bigger snakes.
Kept the corn for all of a couple of weeks and after I got shot of that I got a few big boas and a macklots.I should have had those first.So happy with them.
So much for "beginner" advice.


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## redrumpslump (Jan 13, 2010)

Yea like you i use to own snakes first. I started with a ball python and a corn snake. I eventually got an albino burmese python and a 6ft columbian rainbow boa. I eventually had to get rid of them. Now im addicted to tarantulas and love it. But last week i decided to get a snake. Got a beautiful albino california king


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## GartenSpinnen (Jan 13, 2010)

I think people, myself included, tend to be opinionated about levels of advancement in species due to our own insecurities relating to said species... 

Having said that, I feel like there is a lot of shock value in invertebrates and for some people that is the thrill of keeping them. Fortunately the people that keep them solely for the shock value often either find that they are really interested in keeping invertebrates and continue on keeping them for the love of the hobby; or they end up getting bored and move on to compare the size of their testicles elsewhere. Usually it seems to be the later...


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## Schyler (Jan 13, 2010)

My first T was an OBT, then a Rose Hair. Tomorrow I'm picking up a T. Blondi, an A. Aviculara, an L. Parahybana, and another Emperor Scorp.

I kept snakes and lizards before had, but I started with a more 'advanced' species of both as well. Everything is going fine so far;gathering info as I go. (I of course did research before hand, but theres always something new to learn)

It just depends on how confident the keeper is and how well he can react to the situations I suppose.


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## paul fleming (Jan 13, 2010)

I say,give people the information from our own experience and let the "beginners" make their own minds up.
Never try to put pressure on them to get this one or that one.
They are the ones who have to put all the work in after all.


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## Avicularia Man (Jan 13, 2010)

I have to ask. What is an "advanced T"? To me it has nothing to do with it's size, how likely it is to bite, how strong it's venom is, or how fast it moves. What means advanced to me is that it has special needs in the way it is cared for. Like needing special humidity and temps that MUST be met or it will die.


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## redrumpslump (Jan 13, 2010)

Avicularia Man said:


> I have to ask. What is an "advanced T"? To me it has nothing to do with it's size, how likely it is to bite, how strong it's venom is, or how fast it moves. What means advanced to me is that it has special needs in the way it is cared for. Like needing special humidity and temps that MUST be met or it will die.


i agree with you avic man


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## paul fleming (Jan 13, 2010)

I would say an advanced T....although I have to admit,I could have phrased it better......is not a beginner T.
eg. pokies,certain baboons (S.calceatum,H.mac etc.),haplo's and anything with "earth tiger" in it's name....lol.
There are probably others....it's late and I am tired.
I think you all know what I was getting at BTW


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## Avicularia Man (Jan 13, 2010)

See that's something else that throws me off. Am I a beginner or not? Sure I just got my first T's a month ago, but I have been into snakes from age 11 and I am 35 now. I even owned a Northern Copperhead. I mean really, at this point the care the T's I have now is so 2 decades ago for me as care and skill needed. I mean they sit in their containers and I mist them once a week (avics every other day) and offer them food once a week. I keep the temp around 80F. I know some would call me a newb, but I really feel like a lion tamer caring for a small kitten. Don't get me wrong, I am in no way upset with what I bought. After all, I didn't ask a soul what they thought I should get. I simply researched Tarantulas and after some time, I realized what I wanted. based on what I read were good starters. In fact, I wanted my A. Versicolor long before I knew it was a good starter T.


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## paul fleming (Jan 13, 2010)

Avicularia Man said:


> See that's something else that throws me off. Am I a beginner or not? Sure I just got my first T's a month ago, but I have been into snakes from age 11 and I am 35 now. I even owned a Northern Copperhead. I mean really, at this point the care the T's I have now is so 2 decades ago for me as care and skill needed. I mean they sit in their containers and I mist them once a week (avics every other day) and offer them food once a week. I keep the temp around 80F. I know some would call me a newb, but I really feel like a lion tamer caring for a small kitten. Don't get me wrong, I am in no way upset with what I bought. After all, I didn't ask a soul what they thought I should get. I simply researched Tarantulas and after some time, I realized what I wanted. based on what I read were good starters.


you have answered your own question.
How can you be a beginner with experience of other exotics.
Beginner normally means someone with no experience of any exotic.
When you first kept snakes,you had to read up on them,get the humidity and temps right,learn about shedding,feeding,certain diseases such as RI ,scale rot etc. that snakes can suffer from.......you then use the way you got that knowledge to get it right for spiders.
Different care but you know how to do it.
See what I mean ?
I was in the same situation when I started with T's.........snakes a long time before them


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## Avicularia Man (Jan 13, 2010)

paul fleming said:


> you have answered your own question.
> How can you be a beginner with experience of other exotics.
> Beginner normally means someone with no experience of any exotic.
> When you first kept snakes,you had to read up on them,get the humidity and temps right,learn about shedding,feeding,certain diseases such as RI ,scale rot etc. that snakes can suffer from.......
> See what I mean ?


Yep, even cared for a few diseases like mouth rot. I actually got good at that part. I caught a LOT of wild snakes as a kid that I would keep for months on end. Even breed them and raised some young. Ok I am done, too much talking about snakes for me when I have none. I am drooling over the ones I plan on getting in the future once I have moved. I can't wait to go catch a few next summer. Taking my two daughters out this year when I go.


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## paul fleming (Jan 13, 2010)

Avicularia Man said:


> Yep, even cared for a few diseases like mouth rot. I actually got good at that part. I caught a LOT of wild snakes as a kid that I would keep for months on end. Even breed them and raised some young. Ok I am done, too much talking about snakes for me when I have none. I am drooling over the ones I plan on getting in the future once I have moved. I can't wait to go catch a few next summer. Taking my two daughters out this year when I go.


Be nice to see pics.....snakes are my first love in exotics.


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## Avicularia Man (Jan 13, 2010)

paul fleming said:


> Be nice to see pics.....snakes are my first love in exotics.


Yeah, same here. Snakes first, everything else second. Sure, I will do pics this season while out. I have three I want to catch for sure. Lampropeltis triangulum triangulum, Elaphe obsoleta obsoleta, and Diadophis punctatus edwardsii. Do you snake hunt?


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## paul fleming (Jan 13, 2010)

Can't wait


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## ZergFront (Jan 13, 2010)

I certainly didn't go from zero-to-intermediate (I hardly count as babysitting a rosie that hardly moved years ago as good enough experience) because I wanted to be some big shot. If anything when you own spiders in my city they see you as "the weird bug person." 

 Sue me, I LOVE Psalmos!


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## xhexdx (Jan 13, 2010)

You guys are hilarious.

So because I've been in the tarantula hobby for 10 years, I'm not a beginner when it comes to reptiles?

Great logic...


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## redrumpslump (Jan 13, 2010)

You would know more bout molts, feeding, humidity, and ext. then a beginner would. Im sure your just gonna have some stupid reply its what you do. Personally i dont care what you have to say youve proved to be a class A jerk on plenty other threads ive read.


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## xhexdx (Jan 13, 2010)

Then perhaps you are not reading my responses in the context they were typed in.

As always, thanks for your opinion.


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## Obelisk (Jan 13, 2010)

jadespider1985 said:


> I think people, myself included, tend to be opinionated about levels of advancement in species due to our own insecurities relating to said species...
> 
> Having said that, I feel like there is a lot of shock value in invertebrates and for some people that is the thrill of keeping them. Fortunately the people that keep them solely for the shock value often either find that they are really interested in keeping invertebrates and continue on keeping them for the love of the hobby; or they end up getting bored and move on to compare the size of their testicles elsewhere. Usually it seems to be the later...



This is true. There will always be some retard individuals who think they're proving something when they tell everyone about their aggressive/venomous/large pet. I've seen it in reptile forums, fish forums, etc. 

Some of us do in fact like the thrill of such an animal, but there are others who, for whatever reason, think it makes them look "tough."


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## codykrr (Jan 13, 2010)

ok my 2 cents.

people dont recomend "advanced Ts" to begginers for a few reasons.  

1. if we have a 14 yr. old who decides to buy a pokie, baboon, or anything speedy with more potent venom. and he gets bit and dies due to an allergy then wham, thats just one more reason for congress to try and ban our hobby.  

2. if a person who had never seen a pokie or S. cal in action gets one(with or without research) how do you think they would react to a pokie teleporting up his arm, around his head and then on the cealing?

those are just 2 reasons why we recomend a "starter T" something with a calmer demeaner. may be boring but we all started there.

also just because you keep reptiles,fish, birds ,frogs or any other exotic doed not qualify you as an "intermediate keeper" automatically.

ive kept snakes, but i knew nothing about Ts when i first got them. ive kept birds, but i knew nothing about fish before i got them.  there "branches" of the exotic animal world. but their far in between from being the same.  i keep tarantulas, scorpions and snakes..but i know nothing about dart frogs. so should i go buy a rare or advanced frog and try?  no. id need to work my way up there.

just because a mechanic knows how to work on a car does not mean he can drive it.   and just because we can drive doesnt make us race car drivers.

there is experience that is essential in knowing how or what to do in certain situations. plain and simple.

it only takes a few inexperienced keepers to ruin it for the rest.  a few bites, possible deaths and were probly done.  

just my 2 cents.


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## redrumpslump (Jan 13, 2010)

codykrr said:


> ok my 2 cents.
> 
> people dont recomend "advanced Ts" to begginers for a few reasons.
> 
> ...


I guess you didnt read the part were it was said you should do your research first. It was never said that just cause anybody owned reptiles that the were intermediate keepers. It was said that it gave you better start than a beginner. And second a 14 year old could only by a tarantula with there parents knowing so the parents should do there own research into it. Well atleast any good parent would. The whole reptile thing is talking more bout understanding humidity and how to handle certain situations with molts and feeding. The first t i bought was a obt and chilobrachypelma fiambrotus. Both are doing very well. OBT is fast and mean as all get out. When the chilo is out its always pissed. I just dont think you get what was trying to be said bout tarantulas and snakes going hand in hand. Dont get me wrong your opinion is more than welcome but im sick of hearing that a first time owner needs to get a rosea.


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## Avicularia Man (Jan 13, 2010)

codykrr said:


> ok my 2 cents.
> 
> people dont recomend "advanced Ts" to begginers for a few reasons.
> 
> ...


For the record, frogs aren't as easy to care for as Tarantulas or reptiles. Funny you should mention frogs, I found these forums a few weeks ago, which has me a bit interested in frogs. They have some really awesome cage setup pics on those forums. Live plants and all.

I spent about 5 months I guess researching before I got my first T's. So far, I would say they are easier to care for than snakes, but can be hurt easier than snakes. About the only real problem I could imagine me as a beginner having with my T's is if they got sick. They have a completely different set of sicknesses from reptiles.


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## ZergFront (Jan 14, 2010)

xhexdx said:


> You guys are hilarious.
> 
> So because I've been in the tarantula hobby for 10 years, I'm not a beginner when it comes to reptiles?
> 
> Great logic...


 Yeah, duh! Everyone knows reptiles have EVERYTHING in common with tarantulas. Jeez, wake up, Joe. ;P

 My sarcasm meter is hitting the roof tonight..


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## codykrr (Jan 14, 2010)

man you all just didnt ead my post......:wall:

even with research that will not prepare you for the speed of an S. cal, pokie, and others...it may give you an idea but you wont know....untill you work your way up.

and again. No, reptile keeping will give you no help in tarantulas...there two totally diffrent things.  i mean you may learn about basically being responcible for a pet in general. but snake shed totally diffrent from tarantulas. they require heat for digestions...they are worlds apart.  other than you can keep them both enclosed i dont see how they relate.

so no it wouldnt give you abetter start, as reptile keeping and tarantula keeping are 2 diffrent hobbies. not to mention one is a vert. and one is an invert......


and avic man. i wasnt stating frogs are easier or harder to keep than Ts. i just used them as a comparison.

and man at 14 i was doing lots of things my parents didnt know about...kids are sneeky and some parents dont care. 

its doesnt truely matter, because people are always going o jump in over there head.  regardless of what more experienced people say or advice...

you are always going to have that 16 year old who thinks he is a pro race car driver...when he has no driving experience. 

any never did i say anything about a G. porteri(G. rosea name changed)  for a started id actually recomend, B. smithi, H. incei, A. avic, A. versicolor


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## redrumpslump (Jan 14, 2010)

Yea i guess i didnt ead your post? Personally i started out with a violacepes and two obts. I think you will agree both are fast and are defensive or aggressive whatever you wanna call it. I read up on both species watched numerous vids on youtube. By the time i got them i was able to freehandle both after i unpacked them. From my research i understood there speed and to tell how to read there temperement. So i disagree with you, but like you said people will do what they want so it really doesnt matter.


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## Avicularia Man (Jan 14, 2010)

codykrr said:


> and avic man. i wasnt stating frogs are easier or harder to keep than Ts. i just used them as a comparison.


Wasn't saying you was. Just letting you know that they are harder to care for. Them being so fragile is one of the reasons I haven't getting into keeping frogs.


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## Steve Calceatum (Jan 14, 2010)

Well, I was gonna stay out of this thread but.........



codykrr said:


> .......G. porteri(G. rosea name changed).......


When did that happen???? Last I knew, the _Grammostola_ genus was still under revision, and with the exception of _G. pulchripes_ being synonomized last year, no changes have been made. This certain-uncertainty is really quite maddening, LOL!!!!


Now, my $.02 on the issue is that as long as proper research is done, and the prospective keeper has the confidence and *maturity* (not relative to age, Paul ;P) to do so, then just about anything could be a prospective first T. I say, "just about anything," meaning that there are some exceptions, of course. For instance, I would not recommend an S. cal, _T. blondi,_ or _H. gigas,_ being as these species have special considerations (ie: the speed and overtly violent temperament of the S. cal, or the care-specific requirements for _T. blondi_).

Ultimately, it comes down to maturity. Cody is right that there will always be the keeper on a journey to their own personal coolness. All too often I hear some domineering male gorilla-type, upon finding out that I keep T's, ask me where he can get a "Goliath." The answer is always the same when I ask why anyone would want that: "It's the biggest, baddest mo'fo' spider, yadda-yadda, BS...." 

If it weren't for trying to prevent bad publicity in the hobby, I would so introduce one of these idiots to a little 3" juvie S. cal that'll make them think twice about issuing a "Biggest-Baddest" statement to someone who they knew to be a spider-keeper in the first place.


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## Mad Hatter (Jan 14, 2010)

xsyorra said:


> Well, I was gonna stay out of this thread but.........


But... here you are. 



xsyorra said:


> When did that happen???? Last I knew, the _Grammostola_ genus was still under revision, and with the exception of _G. pulchripes_ being synonomized last year, no changes have been made. This certain-uncertainty is really quite maddening, LOL!!!!


I don't know when it happened, but yeah, G. _rosea_ is now the scientific name for G. _rosea_ RCF (Red Color Form) and G. porteri is the name for the plainer brown/grey tarantulas of this genus.



Sorry for the off topic post.


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## paul fleming (Jan 14, 2010)

Certain people (I am not naming names Joe ) are taking the beginner,intermediate and advanced thing far to literally.
There is no 'safe spider to keep list' for each one.
There is also no 'designated time period you have to spend before getting to the next stage'.
Some of you are taking sarcasm to new highs.
One the other hand,it does make it entertaining,especially when my buddy Joe is on form.


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## Draiman (Jan 14, 2010)

paul fleming said:


> *Certain people* (I am not naming names Joe ) *are taking the beginner,intermediate and advanced thing far to literally.
> There is no 'safe spider to keep list' for each one.*
> There is also no 'designated time period you have to spend before getting to the next stage'.


Uhh... Do you remember typing this?



paul fleming said:


> After all the arguments of late
> *Just wondered if anyone thought a lot of people were running before they could  walk ?*
> *It sure seems that way to me.*
> Although I now keep the more dangerous kind of T (and scorp and true spid),I did start off with an L.parahybana


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## Steve Calceatum (Jan 14, 2010)

Mad Hatter said:


> But... here you are.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, and here I am again!!!! 

Not trying to hijack the thread, but I ran a search in the Q&D, and came up with this thread I think you might find interesting.


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## bksbuddha (Jan 14, 2010)

As a newb to the T relm,  I appreciate when/if I question which one is the best to start w/. It's if someone is so adamant that you shouldn't start out w/one that you really want that I don't appreciate the advice. I personally am amazed & overjoyed w/my Allure, H. lividum. She, & my Italian Greyhound Buddha, remind me constantly that there are exceptions to the rules. Granted, I have no desire to hold her, but everytime I start to open her tank when she's out, she takes off for her burrow. She's never done a threat display, even when she was moved to her new home. 
That being said, I have PDFs & they're tons of fun. :} The only problem w/having such unique frogs is the fact that you either have to breed (or have access to) lots of teeny crickets or become a FF breeder. It's funny how most of my pets force me to have other pets...aka, their food!


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## redrumpslump (Jan 14, 2010)

bksbuddha said:


> As a newb to the T relm,  I appreciate when/if I question which one is the best to start w/. It's if someone is so adamant that you shouldn't start out w/one that you really want that I don't appreciate the advice. I personally am amazed & overjoyed w/my Allure, H. lividum. She, & my Italian Greyhound Buddha, remind me constantly that there are exceptions to the rules. Granted, I have no desire to hold her, but everytime I start to open her tank when she's out, she takes off for her burrow. She's never done a threat display, even when she was moved to her new home.
> That being said, I have PDFs & they're tons of fun. :} The only problem w/having such unique frogs is the fact that you either have to breed (or have access to) lots of teeny crickets or become a FF breeder. It's funny how most of my pets force me to have other pets...aka, their food!


See thats what ive been getting at a "noob" can get the t they want and have success with it. I hope you enjoy her for a long time my friend


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## Muze (Jan 14, 2010)

I guess i was fortunate. i was always into inverts, since the age of 3 i was collecting native bugs and spiders and keeping them in jars at home.
Then at the age of around 7 we had a friend of the family who was a zoologist and he kept tarantulas amongst other inverts (and was also our nextdoor neighbour). so he introduced me to the world of T's.

After keeping a couple of the beginner T's, i acquired the more advanced ones through our family friend, which was natural progression. I always had him there as a mentor and of course i got used to dealing with their behaviour, rehousing etc first by helping him with his collection before getting my own Pokies etc.

When i tell people that i was keeping what are considered advanced tarantulas at 11 and 12 most people are shocked. But this was always with supervision.

I was thankful for the opportunity as it eventually lead on to a couple of jobs at local zoos (i dont work there now) and we currently have a DWAL.

So im a great believer in working your way up at your own pace.


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## Mack&Cass (Jan 14, 2010)

I'm not trying to offend anyone, however if you make a post saying "I want an S. cal as my first/second/third T, what do you all think?" You're asking for _everyone's_ advice, and some of that advice is going to be "don't do it". If you have your heart set on getting it, then why bother making a thread asking for people's opinions? If you're just looking for everyone to tell you to go ahead, then you've come to the wrong place, because you're not going to get that. There are people on here who believe you should work your way up instead of jumping in with both feet - and they'll have no problem telling you that.

So, to anyone who is going to make a post asking what big, bad T they should get after they've kept a B. smithi for a week, you're putting the question out there for anyone to answer. And to accuse those people who say not to do it as flaming them, well, that's a little rude, because this is an OPEN forum, where anyone can post, and if you're going to ask for people's opinions and then get mad when it's not what you want to hear, then just do what you want to do instead of bringing a bunch of people into your business. Obviously the posts saying "I hope your tarantula eats your face off" are a little uncalled for, however, people who are saying that maybe you should work your way up instead of just going right for it, have a right to their opinion - which you asked for.

Cassandra


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## Zoltan (Jan 14, 2010)

Right on, Joe. If you haven't kept tarantulas before, you are new to keeping tarantulas. If you are new to keeping tarantulas, you are a beginner tarantula keeper. It's quite simple. I mean, would you not consider someone a beginner driver if they just started taking driving lessons but they have 15 years of experience with bicycles? Beginner, of course, is not a derogatory word, just as amateur isn't a derogatory word either (ie. "amateur taxonomist").

I think it's the best option (not the only option!) for beginners to start with a calmer, slower terrestrial species, get the hang of being around and dealing with a tarantula, then "work their way up". That's only my opinion, and certainly isn't the one absolutely right opinion, just the way I see it.



Mad Hatter said:


> I don't know when it happened, but yeah, G. _rosea_ is now the scientific name for G. _rosea_ RCF (Red Color Form) and G. porteri is the name for the plainer brown/grey tarantulas of this genus.


I don't know when it happened either, or where it happened, or who made it happen. Basically, we know nothing about this "scientific name change", we only "know" it's happened. Or did it really happen?


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## Aurelia (Jan 14, 2010)

Mad Hatter said:


> I don't know when it happened, but yeah, G. _rosea_ is now the scientific name for G. _rosea_ RCF (Red Color Form) and G. porteri is the name for the plainer brown/grey tarantulas of this genus.


This makes no sense to me. :? RCF can come out of a clutch of eggs from a brown mother, and RCF can bear brown young.


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## paul fleming (Jan 14, 2010)

Draiman said:


> Uhh... Do you remember typing this?


Thank you for pointing that out 
In my defense,everybody is entitled to change their minds,including me 
Just see so many posts that tell people....should not get that......too fast or venemous for you.....have to leave those to us,the experts who are much better spider keepers than you.:? or at least that what it sounds like.


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## Mad Hatter (Jan 14, 2010)

xsyorra said:


> Yes, and here I am again!!!!
> 
> Not trying to hijack the thread, but I ran a search in the Q&D, and came up with this thread I think you might find interesting.


Oh thank you for the link. =)




Zoltan said:


> Right on, Joe. If you haven't kept tarantulas before, you are new to keeping tarantulas. If you are new to keeping tarantulas, you are a beginner tarantula keeper. It's quite simple.


+1




Zoltan said:


> *Beginner, of course, is not a derogatory word*, just as amateur isn't a derogatory word either (ie. "amateur taxonomist").


+1 again.




Zoltan said:


> I don't know when it happened either, or where it happened, or who made it happen. Basically, we know nothing about this "scientific name change", we only "know" it's happened. Or did it really happen?


Yes, that was in the thread xsyorra linked. (I love your wording, btw) =)


I've had a few people I highly respect on these boards inform me about the name "change," so I'm still in doubt about this subject. I don't know who/what to believe. Since I have 16 G. _rosea_ (and/or 'G. _porteri_') tarantulas, I suppose it bothers me that this is still a grey area. I'd like to know so I can make sure I document things correctly.



Aurelia said:


> This makes no sense to me. :? RCF can come out of a clutch of eggs from a brown mother, and RCF can bear brown young.


If a "G. _porteri_" was bred with a G. _rosea_... would the offspring be hybrids?

This is a quote that I found mildly helpful:



			
				Pikaia said:
			
		

> In the wonderful, wild, weird, wacky world of tarantula taxonomy location and color, by themselves, do not a new species make.


But, this still doesn't clear it up for me entirely... and _*if*_ G. _rosea_ and "G. _porteri_" are in fact two separate species that have been confused as one and the same until this point, then wouldn't there be an inordinate amount of hybrids floating around the hobby by now?

Anyway, I'm going to try not to derail this any more than I already have. But to anyone who can PM me more info, you should know that it would be much appreciated.



Back on topic, I'm of the opinion that it's best to start out slow in whatever hobby it is you're getting into. But that's just me.

As much as a Ts speed/defensiveness should be accounted for before considering it as a "pet," how difficult it is to take care of should be noted as well. For instance, G. rosea makes a good beginner species because their requirements are really quite simple (in addition to the fact that they are generally very docile Ts). 

Something with a higher humidity requirement, I would consider more "advanced" and even I still steer clear of some of these species because I doubt my skills are up to taking care of them. 

A good rule of thumb is: 

When in doubt, DON'T. 

Because really, only you can decide if you are ready to start keeping a more advanced species of T. There's no way for me or anyone to be able to accurately assess your T-keeping skills via online posts. You and only you know if the "spids" you want are too advanced to get. ;-)


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## Green Mantis (Jan 14, 2010)

Tarantula Newbie:? Well I have asked about What is a Good first T, reseached and am currently reading the TKG, VERY GOOD.  But there are still answers I can't find, regarding whats going to come flying up at you if you open the lid, etc. I have NO intention of handling it. Just for observing and enjoying.  Since I know NOTHING about Spiders of Any kind, I do appreciatte people's answers.  I too have kept exotic frogs, lizards, etc. BUT a Spider is NOT a frog. So to me, I do want a slow moving terrestial Spider.  I THINK? I have narrowed it down to a Honduran Curly.  The Gooty's are awesome, but I don't feel I know enough about their care, so that won't happen for a long time.  I just want to start with something that Doesn't do much!   Then If I feel I would like another, that's when I will be reseaching and asking AGAIN. I'd rather KNOW how to care for it properly and be comfortable with it, rather than kill it off from ignorance.


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## Sadistic Haplo (Jan 14, 2010)

I personally dove head in starting Nov. 2009. I started with a begginer species(A.Avic) but have quickly moved on to obtain some of the species more reccomended for experienced hobbyists. Along with the avic i've got a 6" MF H.Lividum, 5" MF P. Irminia, 6" MF G. Pulchripes and a 2" P.Regalis and I haven't had a problem with any of them.


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## Default (Jan 14, 2010)

From my personal experience of being bit by a black widow, I think the spiders that hang out around my house are worse than most of the ELITE LEVEL creatures referenced here.  As long as you have a good understanding of what you are dealing with you should be fine.  If you force it to live with you then you are basically its parent.  Don't lose your head and reference the boards if you need it.  I am on here all the time as my family seems to double every few months.  When it comes to another living things life in your hands, take it seriously.  It may be a hobby, but there is a great deal of responsibility.  Don't be a fool, or you will get bit.  Its the elites job to educate us noobs so when the time comes, we can teach the future.  I have gotten my local pet store to give out the Arachnoboards site when someone buys a tarantula.  Probably the best caresheet they will ever get.


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## Jilly1337 (Jan 14, 2010)

Aside from the obvious common sense of it, I think most people recommend docile, easy to care for species because that's what was probably they were told when they got into the hobby.  We all learn from each other and pass it down.  Some people like to blow hot air at each other, usually about matters of opinion, which is really a distraction from the point of sharing our hobby and exchanging knowlege while learning together.  While I find all of this "my T knowledge is bigger than your T knowledge" bickering to be very entertaining, the fact of the matter is, there are few people in our real lives who get our love for T's.  We come here because we have a common passion which we cannot share with some of our closest friends.  


All that being said, this place has always been the shark tank of T forums.  It's always been that way and it will probably never change, lol.


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## Jilly1337 (Jan 14, 2010)

I want to add that personally, I think a really good reason not to start out too advanced is that it seems like it would take a lot of the thrill out of the hobby.  I mean, if you start with Pokies what do you have to look forward to next,unless you are only going to have a few (riiiiight!!.  I'm not saying everyone should start out with Rosies, but there is something to be valued in learning the basics of something then stepping it up later on.


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## Kirsten (Jan 15, 2010)

*pulling hair out*  Jiminy Cricket, why does everyone seem to be bashing the Roseas?  Are they really the slums; I love mine.( OK she doesn't do much,but she's VERY spiritual.  I know..I see her meditate..a lot.)


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## Arachnobrian (Jan 15, 2010)

Sadistic Haplo said:


> I personally dove head in starting Nov. 2009. I started with a begginer species(A.Avic) but have quickly moved on to obtain some of the species more reccomended for experienced hobbyists. Along with the avic i've got a 6" MF H.Lividum, 5" MF P. Irminia, 6" MF G. Pulchripes and a 2" P.Regalis and I haven't had a problem with any of them.


No offence in any way, but you have not owned and cared for these long enough to have a problem yet. 

It may never happen, but if it ever does, having the experience and calmness to deal with the situation would be helpful.


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## violentblossom (Jan 15, 2010)

Arachnobrian said:


> No offence in any way, but you have not owned and cared for these long enough to have a problem yet.


The way I see it, all T's can be unpredictable (especially some of those that he/she mentioned), and a problem could arise within one day of having them. Some credit is due for said user not yet having a problem, even if it isn't much.

Is there a timeline for credibility with more volatile species? Not as much as some might think.


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## WelshTan (Jan 15, 2010)

I don't know how many of you would agree with me..or not but here goes.....

Tarantulas are an ornamental pet. Look, admire and marvel, but dont really touch. Just like your Grandma's vase that is on her mantlepiece that was handed down to her from her mother, and so on. Anyone who is responsible (and in my eyes not a child-sorry to the younger T keepers) can own an "advanced tarantula" as long as they don't expect to be able to hold it, get it out to show friends, or poke things at it to show friends "how defensive it can be and look at the threat pose and fangs on that!!" Any person who owns an intermediate or advanced keeper tarantula must always have/show a high level of respect for the T and be prepared for the T to suddenly want to bolt at even the slightest level of cage maintenance. 

I wouldnt really recommend a T such as OBT, H. mac and the likes as a first T especially to someone who has only had, say, an Avic or Rosea as their first T, but even those T's can show some speed when they feel threatened. 

If you are responsible, have truly done your research, watched videos on say youtube to show the startling speed that some OW species can show and truly think you are prepared for them, then go for it... but always make sure you have plenty of catch cups ready, long tweezers, a clear surrounding space and the knowledge of what a potential bite can do to you.


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## Steve Calceatum (Jan 15, 2010)

ksmith999 said:


> *pulling hair out*  Jiminy Cricket, why does everyone seem to be bashing the Roseas?  Are they really the slums; I love mine.( OK she doesn't do much,but she's VERY spiritual.  I know..I see her meditate..a lot.)



+1
I completely agree with you 110%!!!!! Out of all the colorful and varied tempermented T's I have (ranging from Avic avic to S. cal), I'd keep my Rosie over any of the others. And we meditate together quite often, lol!!!

I think all the Rosie-bashing is just someone's insecurity that a common, plain brown, LPS-variety spider will make them look all wussy in front of their Pokie-keeping Internet friends they've never met IRL.


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## paul fleming (Jan 15, 2010)

xsyorra said:


> +1
> I completely agree with you 110%!!!!! Out of all the colorful and varied tempermented T's I have (ranging from Avic avic to S. cal), I'd keep my Rosie over any of the others. And we meditate together quite often, lol!!!
> 
> I think all the Rosie-bashing is just someone's insecurity that a common, plain brown, LPS-variety spider will make them look all wussy in front of their Pokie-keeping Internet friends they've never met IRL.


I have nothing against rosies and in fact,I am looking for a nice big female.
I think you are spot on BTW.


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## Sarcastro (Jan 15, 2010)

When I started in this hobby I didn't get a choice on what to start with, it was either..Avic.avic, rosea ,or smithi's and other stuff I collected on my own as a kid there wasn't anything else.The hobby was around, but it was nowhere as big as it was now.I mean I didn't get my first pokie until '99...there is a much bigger selection now and people are gonna buy what they want whether their ready for it or not.trial and error, that's the way we learn.In my opinion as long as you do your research before hand, practice good common sense,and have a great respect for the animal and what its capable of,you should start with whatever you feel your ready for.


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## BrettG (Jan 15, 2010)

Avicularia Man said:


> Wasn't saying you was. Just letting you know that they are harder to care for. Them being so fragile is one of the reasons I haven't getting into keeping frogs.


Frogs are not that bad actually. Once they are set up and humidity is regulated,they are a cakewalk( turns and runs like hell from this thread)


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## xhexdx (Jan 15, 2010)

Something I just had to point out...

Quoted from this thread:



paul fleming said:


> I used to point out that I had snakes a long time before I had spids.....and birds of prey a long time before I had snakes......they still advised a chile rose





paul fleming said:


> *How can you be a beginner with experience of other exotics.*Beginner normally means someone with no experience of any exotic.
> When you first kept snakes,you had to read up on them,get the humidity and temps right,learn about shedding,feeding,certain diseases such as RI ,scale rot etc. that snakes can suffer from.......you then use the way you got that knowledge to get it right for spiders.
> Different care but you know how to do it.
> See what I mean ?
> I was in the same situation when I started with T's.........snakes a long time before them


Quoted from another thread:



paul fleming said:


> I know pine is a big no no for snakes.....although a lot of vivs you buy are made out of the stuff (dried pine with no sap) :? *but I had no idea it was the same for T's*.


Excellent.  In an instance where your snake background may have actually come in handy...it didn't.


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## Big B (Jan 15, 2010)

paul fleming said:


> I agree.
> I used to point out that I had snakes a long time before I had spids.....and birds of prey a long time before I had snakes......they still advised a chile rose


Wow birds of prey, that is unique. What kind of birds? Common names please.


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## Arachnobrian (Jan 15, 2010)

violentblossom said:


> The way I see it, all T's can be unpredictable (especially some of those that he/she mentioned), and a problem could arise within one day of having them. Some credit is due for said user not yet having a problem, even if it isn't much.
> 
> Is there a timeline for credibility with more volatile species? Not as much as some might think.



Raising from a sling would be the best place to start. As it grows the owner has the opportunity to learn more about it's personality. Rehousing a few times gives you a better idea of speed and character, and tools required to avoid mishaps.


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## Mad Hatter (Jan 16, 2010)

Arachnobrian said:


> Raising from a sling would be the good place to start. As it grows the owner has the opportunity to learn more about it's personality. Rehousing a few times gives you better idea of speed and character, and tools required to avoid mishaps.


+1

I agree completely.


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## Galapoheros (Jan 16, 2010)

Man this thread grew fast, didn't read most of the posts, so many.  My opinion is that most people call "advanced" T's the ones that you have to be more careful not get bitten by.  I see it in the other sections too.  You do have to be more responsible, but most of the time the animal is not much more difficult to take care of, if you have it set up right.  I think it has to do with proving responsibility, I guess you could call that "advanced".  It's kind of like calling "hot" snakes, snakes for advanced keepers.  But some rattlesnakes are just as easy to keep(house and feed) as a rat snake, you just don't want to get bitten by the rattlesnake.  For example, I've got dozens of Parabuthus trasvaalicus scorpions but I don't feel like I "moved up" to keeping those, I just know to be careful.  One of my fav scorps to keep is still Pandinus imperator, taken for granted imo because they are so available.  As far as T's go, I keep mostly US native Ts.


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## paul fleming (Jan 16, 2010)

Big B said:


> Wow birds of prey, that is unique. What kind of birds? Common names please.


kestrels,sparrow hawks and little owls......and later on,one buzzard.
When I was growing up,that's the sort of thing kids did.


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## MIC (Jan 16, 2010)

Jilly1337 said:


> I want to add that personally, I think a really good reason not to start out too advanced is that it seems like it would take a lot of the thrill out of the hobby.  *I mean, if you start with Pokies what do you have to look forward to next*,unless you are only going to have a few (riiiiight!!.  I'm not saying everyone should start out with Rosies, but there is something to be valued in learning the basics of something then stepping it up later on.


I totally agree with this. Personally i started with Brachys, then passed to C.cyaneopubescens and N.Chromatus and my last purchase was a Singapore sp. Blue. Now I look forward to something more active like a Pokie or similar.

If you have an excellent wine to drink is better to enjoy it sup by sup instead of swig it all at once.


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## Avicularia Man (Jan 16, 2010)

MIC said:


> I totally agree with this. Personally i started with Brachys, then passed to C.cyaneopubescens and N.Chromatus and my last purchase was a Singapore sp. Blue. Now I look forward to something more active like a Pokie or similar.
> 
> If you have an excellent wine to drink is better to enjoy it sup by sup instead of swig it all at once.


Did you mean sip by sip? Either way, if I am drinking wine, then that means somehow I am being forced to drink that crap. So I am going to swig it to get it over with.


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## MIC (Jan 16, 2010)

Avicularia Man said:


> Did you mean sip by sip? Either way, if I am drinking wine, then that means somehow I am being forced to drink that crap. So I am going to swig it to get it over with.


Yeap, I mean sip by sip and for me, because I am Mediterranean, wine is a good thing like my hobby after all. You can substitute the wine with something you want to enjoy slowly, unless in all circumstances you are a 'quick fire' man.


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## Avicularia Man (Jan 16, 2010)

MIC said:


> Yeap, I mean sip by sip and for me, because I am Mediterranean, wine is a good thing like my hobby after all. You can substitute the wine with something you want to enjoy slowly, unless in all circumstances you are a 'quick fire' man.


lol no no, I am not. I like to sip some things. Just having a problem thinking of an example right now. Every wine I have ever tasted, taste like vinegar to me.


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## Exo (Jan 16, 2010)

Avicularia Man said:


> lol no no, I am not. I like to sip some things. Just having a problem thinking of an example right now. Every wine I have ever tasted, taste like vinegar to me.


Must have gone bad then.


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