# i ended up with a rat. help?



## K-TRAIN (Feb 18, 2009)

ok its been awhile since i posted on the boards but anyway two days ago i went out for food for my reptiles, and only one place around me has live pinky mice. (i just bought a cornsnake who was fed live so i wanted to make sure it would eat) and i wanted to get mice for my ball python. i got to the store etc, and they had no mice. so i talked to the people working there and they suggested a small rat after i gave them a estimate of my bps size. well took the rat home and it looks too big to feed to my bp, and i cant seem to bring myself to take it back or try to feed it to emily (my bp) 

so i have a pet rat for now. its in a small hampster cage with a coolwhip container for water and some hampster bedding (i think its aspen not sure) and a small exercise wheel. ive been feeding it bread until i can get some decent food for it. 


what am i missing? is there anything i should know about keeping rats (requirements, etc?) 

and it was in a cage i assume was all feeder rats, is there any problem keeping a pet rat bred for feeding?

thanks in advance for advice. 

-k-train


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## KJE (Feb 18, 2009)

Rats are great pets.  I would stop giving it bread, though.  If you have some cherio's or another sugar free cereal around give it some of that.  They can actually eat most of what we eat.  Their diets are similar to ours in many ways.  You could also give it some cat or dog food until you get to the store.  But I'd only do that for no longer than a day.  They would probably also love some of your table scraps.


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## Snuggles (Feb 18, 2009)

You'll eventually need a bigger habitat and wheel, if possible.  Don't forget to give it a wood chew or a mineral chew.  Their teeth grow continuously (like a rabbit) and they need something to keep them growing evenly.

Yay rat!!!


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## equuskat (Feb 18, 2009)

Rats are awesome pets.  Quit feeding the poor thing bread, though.  haha  You can feed it almost anything that you eat until you get it a more balanced staple.  Be sure to continue to provide variety even after you get a main diet, though.  Rats can eat fruits, veggies, lean lunchmeat, cereal, granola bars (as long as they aren't too high in sugar), and other stuff.  No candy or chocolate, though...

They are awesome, intellegent pets, and need to have room to explore and socialize.  It's best for rats to have another rat as a friend, but if you give your rat a lot of playtime and stimulation, they are usually fine.  A big cage with lots of toys and things to chew on is essential.  

Good luck!  I wish that I could have another rat right now.  They are so cute.  Eventually I'll have one again.


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## K-TRAIN (Feb 18, 2009)

Snuggles said:


> You'll eventually need a bigger habitat and wheel, if possible.  Don't forget to give it a wood chew or a mineral chew.  Their teeth grow continuously (like a rabbit) and they need something to keep them growing evenly.
> 
> Yay rat!!!


how big of a cage do they need? like is there a rule of thumb like in tarantulas for cage size?
and i have a huge wheel but its made of wood and metal mesh, (got it from a biology teacher) and it lookes like a guinie pig could run on it. is that safe or is there risk of it getting chewed through and possibly injuring the rat due to the mesh? 

oh and im thinking if i need a larger cage i should go with one of my twenty gallons that were left over from other pets.  would glass tanks be fine for a rat? 



Katy_green said:


> Rats are awesome pets.  Quit feeding the poor thing bread, though.  haha  You can feed it almost anything that you eat until you get it a more balanced staple.  Be sure to continue to provide variety even after you get a main diet, though.  Rats can eat fruits, veggies, lean lunchmeat, cereal, granola bars (as long as they aren't too high in sugar), and other stuff.  No candy or chocolate, though...
> 
> They are awesome, intellegent pets, and need to have room to explore and socialize.  It's best for rats to have another rat as a friend, but if you give your rat a lot of playtime and stimulation, they are usually fine.  A big cage with lots of toys and things to chew on is essential.
> 
> Good luck!  I wish that I could have another rat right now.  They are so cute.  Eventually I'll have one again.


so would the second rat need to be same size? i believe i have a female right now not sure though. have to check, if its not are they territorial in any way?


oh and thanks for wishing me good luck.


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## GiantVinegaroon (Feb 18, 2009)

Handle it!  And don't give it treats and return it to the cage if it goes to the bathroom on you.

Rats are awesome....as well as fuzzy....yea they bring out my soft side lolol.


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## ballpython2 (Feb 18, 2009)

Before you make it a pet you should take pictures of your rat and  the snake so we can see the size of both them so we can tell you if the snake can take the rat or not. and you should pre kill the rat before you give it to the snake.


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## K-TRAIN (Feb 18, 2009)

ballpython2 said:


> Before you make it a pet you should take pictures of your rat and  the snake so we can see the size of both them so we can tell you if the snake can take the rat or not. and you should pre kill the rat before you give it to the snake.


my snake is about 1 1/2 foot to 2 ft long, and her thinkest part is about the size of a adult mouse.

the rat is about the size of three mice combined i guess, its pretty big. (bigger then the snakes size)

oh and i know. i stun/kill most feeders i feed my snakes.


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## equuskat (Feb 18, 2009)

Yes, if you get a rat a friend, it should always be the same age/size/sex (or a neutered male and a female).  You should also monitor them at first if they "meet" as adults.  My rats did not live together because they had met when the older one was a year old and the younger one was 2.5 months old.  They were allowed to play together, but were always monitored.  Sometimes the little one would pester the big one.  haha  

You don't HAVE to get it a friend, though, just give it a bunch of toys (new stuff regularly).  Toys don't have to be expensive and store-bought, either.  You can always give toilet paper rolls, cardboard boxes, blocks, etc.  Make sure that you take the rat out of the cage and socialize it often.  I used to let my two girls have run of the bedroom while I watched TV.  They were so cute.  I miss 'em.


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## Neuroticax (Feb 18, 2009)

If you're going to keep it as a pet, don't use a tank. It builds up ammonia and can give them terrible health problems later on.

I really would suggest a friend, toys will only do so much. They are social animals and need the affection of another animal to cuddle and groom and bond. Rats can often get depressed if they are left alone and in some cases self mutilate due to depression and anxiety. Not a majority case, but it definitely happens.

There are a lot of restrictions on what rats can and can not have. it's not just "they can eat what we eat" There are many foods and liquids that cause horrible health problems and can lead to suffering and death.

*Any* info you need on diet, cages, friends, health issues you can find at http://www.goosemoose.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,118/forum,rat

If you choose to keep this little guy or gal as a pet I would suggest reading as much as you can on that site. It gives a lot of personal views and opinions, along with many resources from breeders and such about health and general care.


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## arachyd (Feb 18, 2009)

There is nothing wrong with keeping a feeder rat as a pet. It will probably need a bit of socializing and may be susceptible to illness a bit more than one from a pet breeder but if you keep it properly you should be ok for the most part. Pet breeders try to screen out unhealthy stock and handle their baby rats often to socialize them. Some pet breeders sell off their surplus as feeders so it is possible your feeder was from good, healthy pet stock anyway. You'll probably have it riding around on your shoulder and nibbling at your pizza before you know it.


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## Neuroticax (Feb 18, 2009)

Most of the breeders I know breed for health, and temperament and don't sell off their surplus as feeders considering they are raising these rats to be pets. I would be weary of a breeder who sells their "overstock" or what have you as feeders and would not jump the gun by saying they are healthy. There are many "breeders" who breed for feeders but put themselves off as actual breeders and healthy rats to sell to people looking for feeders or will sell to anyone without asking if they even know how to care for the rat.

Professional breeders will have you fill out an application to make sure you are going to care for these animals and not feed them to some animal.

However, I am not saying that the breeders who breed strictly for feeders are unhealthy, there are a small handful who breed healthy rats to be sold as feeders. The healthier the food the better off said animal is eating the food.


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## LeilaNami (Feb 18, 2009)

Most rats bred for feeders are severely inbred.  However, I've had 7 feeder rats turned pet.  All but two (the first two had a chronic respiratory infection) were and are completely healthy.  My rex, hairless, and common rat (the feeder) in the last group were given to a lady that needed a fresh bloodline.  I had some females dumped on me now all of which are feeders turned pet.  Only the dumbo feeder was insanely aggressive.  Had to find him a new home because he kept biting the other rats' feet.


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## K-TRAIN (Feb 19, 2009)

ok so ill need the following then?

-bigger cage perferably not glass
-rat food (and i can feed occasional others things)
-another rat if i get a big enough cage
-stuff to chew on 


anything else i should know about keeping rats?

or is everything else pretty much common knowledge i  can look up?


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## xBurntBytheSunx (Feb 19, 2009)

i never read up on any food requirements for my rats and never had any problems in that regard.  remember, these are animals that live in garbage dumps and sewers so i think they're pretty tolerant about foods you give them.  my vet asked me once what i fed them, and i just told her they eat everything i eat, she didn't have much to say about that.  they got a little bit of every one of my meals basically.  i even gave them tiny pieces of candy every now and then *gasp*   

mine loved bread, i'd give them a slice at a time and they'd munch on it for the rest of the week.  i'd give them a staple of "Rat blocks" you can buy them at wal-mart or whatever, and the rest is up to you.  mine loved veggies, pop-corn, chips, and they went bonkers over spaghetti or any kind of noodle.  

i used to get mine out and watch tv, they'd go to sleep in my hoody or curl up on my shoulder and go to sleep.  very sweet animals, and wonderful pets.  if only they weren't so short lived i'd still keep them.


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## LeilaNami (Feb 19, 2009)

xBurntBytheSunx said:


> i never read up on any food requirements for my rats and never had any problems in that regard.  remember, these are animals that live in garbage dumps and sewers so i think they're pretty tolerant about foods you give them.  my vet asked me once what i fed them, and i just told her they eat everything i eat, she didn't have much to say about that.  they got a little bit of every one of my meals basically.  i even gave them tiny pieces of candy every now and then *gasp*
> 
> mine loved bread, i'd give them a slice at a time and they'd munch on it for the rest of the week.  i'd give them a staple of "Rat blocks" you can buy them at wal-mart or whatever, and the rest is up to you.  mine loved veggies, pop-corn, chips, and they went bonkers over spaghetti or any kind of noodle.
> 
> i used to get mine out and watch tv, they'd go to sleep in my hoody or curl up on my shoulder and go to sleep.  very sweet animals, and wonderful pets.  if only they weren't so short lived i'd still keep them.


Stop right there.  The rat he has is captive born and raised in captivity. It is NOT a rat living in dumpsters and garbage cans.  They can diarrhea easily from sugary fruits and artificial sugars are bad for you, so why are you giving it to the rat?  Mazuri makes a really good pellet diet for ratties otherwise, the Kaytee brand Pet Block is available.  (what you are referring to as Rat Block I think)  I combine the pellet diet with a small handful of seeds from a fortified seed diet.  Also, fresh fruits and veggies are a recommended.  Otherwise, you seem to have it right. The stuff to chew on can be either wood sticks, mineral stones, or salt licks sold in pet stores.


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## GiantVinegaroon (Feb 19, 2009)

LeilaNami said:


> Stop right there.  The rat he has is captive born and raised in captivity. It is NOT a rat living in dumpsters and garbage cans.  They can diarrhea easily from sugary fruits and artificial sugars are bad for you, so why are you giving it to the rat?  Mazuri makes a really good pellet diet for ratties otherwise, the Kaytee brand Pet Block is available.  (what you are referring to as Rat Block I think)  I combine the pellet diet with a small handful of seeds from a fortified seed diet.  Also, fresh fruits and veggies are a recommended.  Otherwise, you seem to have it right. The stuff to chew on can be either wood sticks, mineral stones, or salt licks sold in pet stores.


Now YOU stop right there.  Kaytee's Rat Blocks should NEVER be used.  They have like ash or something that can cause tumors or cancer in rats.  Stick with Mazuri or anything that ISN'T Kaytee.


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## arachyd (Feb 19, 2009)

Mine ate literally everything and never had a hint of diarrhea. Of course we limited amounts of things like chocolate and sugar but they did have them on occasion with no trouble. There were no rat blocks at the time and if there were I wouldn't have limited my rats to them. They enjoy eating too much. One thing I would never let them have is anything with artificial sweetener in it. That stuff is bad even for humans.


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## halfwaynowhere (Feb 19, 2009)

rats are great. When I kept them, my mom, who absolutely hates rodents, would come into my room every morning to wake me up, and would bring a little bit of something for them to eat with her... And when I'd bring them out of my room, she'd hunt around the kitchen for a snack for them. They'll eat pretty much anything, so stick to healthy stuff. I fed mine a homemade diet found on ratsrule.com, called the suebee's diet, with some variations, and some fresh fruits and veggies.


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## GiantVinegaroon (Feb 19, 2009)

halfwaynowhere said:


> rats are great. When I kept them, my mom, who absolutely hates rodents, would come into my room every morning to wake me up, and would bring a little bit of something for them to eat with her... And when I'd bring them out of my room, she'd hunt around the kitchen for a snack for them. They'll eat pretty much anything, so stick to healthy stuff. I fed mine a homemade diet found on ratsrule.com, called the suebee's diet, with some variations, and some fresh fruits and veggies.



I remember when my mom fell in love with my rat.  When I first got her, my mom hated her and didn't want to deal with her.  We kept her in the basement, and everytime my mom went down to exercise, my rat would pop out of her den to say hello.  She eventually found it cute and now takes her out all the time and cuddles her and gives her treats.

I miss my rat now.  My mom won't even let me take her to college anymore!


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## LeilaNami (Feb 19, 2009)

ScottySalticid said:


> Now YOU stop right there.  Kaytee's Rat Blocks should NEVER be used.  They have like ash or something that can cause tumors or cancer in rats.  Stick with Mazuri or anything that ISN'T Kaytee.


My past rats have lived perfectly healthy lives using Kaytee blocks in their diet. No tumors.  No cancer.  Thanks.  By the way, they have recently reforumulated their pet blocks.  Are you seriously comparing feeding this to "Rats can eat trash" guy?


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## Neuroticax (Feb 20, 2009)

Well if you read up on the link I provided, you will find answers for pretty much everything you'd need to know.

As far as diet, Mazuri is found in pet stores and is pretty much the best lab block you'll find store wise. There are other lab blocks that you'd have to order online, such as Harlan Teklan or Oxbow. The rat mixes you find in the stores are less than adequate, I wouldn't bother. You can find everything you need for the rats grain diet at the grocery store. To see different variations of "Suebee's Diet" go Here: http://www.ratforum.com/index.php/topic,3079.0.html People also use certain types of low protein, basic ingredient dog food in place of a lab block.

I go the organic route, if you choose do to that. 

A daily addition of fresh fruits and vegetables (like broccoli and kale) is great for their diets.


IMO, I stay away from Kaytee. One of the ingredients is Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, which rats can NOT digest. It's also been known to contain ethoxyquin which is suspected to cause cancer. Not to mention it's basically a seed mix, which isn't healthy for rats.


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## LeilaNami (Feb 20, 2009)

Neuroticax said:


> Well if you read up on the link I provided, you will find answers for pretty much everything you'd need to know.
> 
> As far as diet, Mazuri is found in pet stores and is pretty much the best lab block you'll find store wise. There are other lab blocks that you'd have to order online, such as Harlan Teklan or Oxbow. The rat mixes you find in the stores are less than adequate, I wouldn't bother. You can find everything you need for the rats grain diet at the grocery store. To see different variations of "Suebee's Diet" go Here: http://www.ratforum.com/index.php/topic,3079.0.html People also use certain types of low protein, basic ingredient dog food in place of a lab block.
> 
> ...


Well I would like to thank you for giving me a better reason to stop with the pet blocks instead of yelling cancer in my direction. Honestly all my rats lived and are living long healthy lives and all have eaten pet blocks from Kaytee.  The pet block food isn't all they get but a foundation to their diet.  On top of that is a lot of fresh foods. I do agree that Kaytee is not the best however, Mazuri also lists alfalfa in their ingredients.  Not to mention most dog foods are made with corn and dogs cannot digest corn.

I would like to ask about high quality dog foods used in their diet.  The only one I consider high quality that I have access to is Blue Buffalo.  What do you guys think?  Their feline wilderness formula is often used by owner of exotic true carnivores as well.


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## Neuroticax (Feb 20, 2009)

I don't use Mazuri, but like I said the ingredients aren't in my favor anyway. 

Blue Buffalo Senior

Innova Senior or Innova Lite

Wellness

Solid Gold

Nutro Natural Lite or Nutro Max Weight Control Formula

Natures Recipe Senior Lamb and Rice

Natural Balance Vegetarian Formula

PetGuard Vegetarian 

The less the protien the better in the dog foods. Just read the ingredients.


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## halfwaynowhere (Feb 20, 2009)

While Blue Buffalo is amazing food (and I'm not just saying that cuz I used to work for them), it is pretty high in protein, and too much protein isn't good for ratties, especially in their wilderness formula. In general, dog food is lower in protein than cat food. You'll want to check the protein contents of the food you use for ratties.

I've heard a lot of people use Nutro Natural Choice Lite dog food as part of their diet for rats, in addition to grains and other good stuff. I had decent results with it with my rats when I tried it, but I wouldn't even feed that stuff to my dogs... 

I gave my rats the kaytee blocks for awhile, even though I didn't like it. I was planning on ordering the oxbow stuff from my feed store, but my ratties died before I got the chance, and I'm not allowed to keep rodents anymore (lets not say anything about the feeder mouse that got loose and now lives under my bed, lol). Oxbow is pretty awesome stuff, from what I've read, but it doesn't seem to be as popular in the rat community as mazuri, or even the harlan teklad stuff.


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## GiantVinegaroon (Feb 20, 2009)

LeilaNami said:


> My past rats have lived perfectly healthy lives using Kaytee blocks in their diet. No tumors.  No cancer.  Thanks.  By the way, they have recently reforumulated their pet blocks.  Are you seriously comparing feeding this to "Rats can eat trash" guy?


I'm not comparing, I'm speaking on behalf of my little fuzzball who has a bad tumor.  I'm not saying your a bad person or anything, I'm just saying I don't think it should be fed to rats.  I was not aware of the reformulation either.


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## LeilaNami (Feb 20, 2009)

Neuroticax said:


> I don't use Mazuri, but like I said the ingredients aren't in my favor anyway.
> 
> Blue Buffalo Senior
> 
> ...


I would agree that all of those are good foods except with Solid Gold.  My black dog turned brown because was not getting the nutrients he needed.  The other dogs turned their nose up at it lol.

Do you think even the senior canine for Blue Buffalo would be too much?  Currently, I'm feeding Natures Recipe senior formula which if I remember correctly had the same or nearly the same percentage of protein as rattie food.  Commercial rat food costs too much for me right now and considering they went through a 2lb bag of pet blocks in a week...geez.  I know they can't have a high source of protein but they are omnivores which is why I asked about quality dog food.

Edit: Dude this is a thread on rat food.  Cut out the attitude.  This is not a personal attack on you.


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## halfwaynowhere (Feb 20, 2009)

well, the blue buffalo senior dog food has less protein than the mazuri rat diet, so I'd guess that it'd be a pretty safe bet.


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## LeilaNami (Feb 20, 2009)

halfwaynowhere said:


> well, the blue buffalo senior dog food has less protein than the mazuri rat diet, so I'd guess that it'd be a pretty safe bet.


Awesome. I work at a PetSmart so that would be really easy to nab on my way out the door


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## GiantVinegaroon (Feb 20, 2009)

LeilaNami said:


> I would agree that all of those are good foods except with Solid Gold.  My black dog turned brown because was not getting the nutrients he needed.  The other dogs turned their nose up at it lol.
> 
> Do you think even the senior canine for Blue Buffalo would be too much?  Currently, I'm feeding Natures Recipe senior formula which if I remember correctly had the same or nearly the same percentage of protein as rattie food.  Commercial rat food costs too much for me right now and considering they went through a 2lb bag of pet blocks in a week...geez.  I know they can't have a high source of protein but they are omnivores which is why I asked about quality dog food.
> 
> Edit: Dude this is a thread on rat food.  Cut out the attitude.  This is not a personal attack on you.


sorry for saying sorry?


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## LeilaNami (Feb 20, 2009)

ScottySalticid said:


> sorry for saying sorry?


Sorry I read that as sarcasm.  It it wasn't then I apologize.


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## GiantVinegaroon (Feb 20, 2009)

LeilaNami said:


> Sorry I read that as sarcasm.  It it wasn't then I apologize.


It wasn't sarcasm.  Apology accepted!


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## Neuroticax (Feb 20, 2009)

Generally you want to try and balance the protein between dog food and whatever else the rats diet consists of. Whatever you decide to feed you can range the protein around 20% and below -ish.

Rats don't need a lot of protein so a lot of people go with the lowest protein high quality dog foods for safe measure.


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## K-TRAIN (Feb 20, 2009)

so a mix of dog food and rat food with alittle extra in it occasionally (vegitables, etc) ?

one other thing i just learned. rats make weird noises. is it normal to hear voclization often, particularly when someone seems to be paying attention to the rat? im just wondering.


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## GiantVinegaroon (Feb 20, 2009)

K-TRAIN said:


> so a mix of dog food and rat food with alittle extra in it occasionally (vegitables, etc) ?
> 
> one other thing i just learned. rats make weird noises. is it normal to hear voclization often, particularly when someone seems to be paying attention to the rat? im just wondering.


What do you mean by vocalization?  What type of sound is it making?  The can communicate besides by squeaking.  Is it grinding it's teeth?


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## Neuroticax (Feb 20, 2009)

By "rat food" I'm assuming you mean the mix you make yourself and not those less than adequate seed mixes in the pet stores? Than yes. A well balanced diet is good for them. The diet link I provided has everything and more you need to know about feeding them, including what not to.

If it's a type of grinding of the teeth, then they are Bruxing. It either means they are content and happy or in pain and/or nervous. A simple observation of their surroundings and them will tell you which it's likely to be, though. If you're petting them and they're grinding then they're bruxing in happiness!

Rats also do a thing called Boggling. It's where there eyes pop in and out of their head while bruxing due to a muscle spasm in the jaw under the eyes. Just in case you freak out if yours does this. 

If you hear any type of wheezing, then it might be time to take them to the vet for meds. Rats lungs are extremely sensitive and they can get RI very easily.

Another thing that should be mentioned is bedding. Never ever, under any circumstances use Pine, Ceder or Corn bedding. A lot of people use fleece, news paper, towels, Carefresh and others alike.


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## LeilaNami (Feb 20, 2009)

Neuroticax said:


> By "rat food" I'm assuming you mean the mix you make yourself and not those less than adequate seed mixes in the pet stores? Than yes. A well balanced diet is good for them. The diet link I provided has everything and more you need to know about feeding them, including what not to.
> 
> If it's a type of grinding of the teeth, then they are Bruxing. It either means they are content and happy or in pain and/or nervous. A simple observation of their surroundings and them will tell you which it's likely to be, though. If you're petting them and they're grinding then they're bruxing in happiness!
> 
> ...


I would be careful using newspaper.  Just don't use the glossy paper they stuff inside.


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## K-TRAIN (Feb 20, 2009)

Neuroticax said:


> By "rat food" I'm assuming you mean the mix you make yourself and not those less than adequate seed mixes in the pet stores? Than yes. A well balanced diet is good for them. The diet link I provided has everything and more you need to know about feeding them, including what not to.
> 
> If it's a type of grinding of the teeth, then they are Bruxing. It either means they are content and happy or in pain and/or nervous. A simple observation of their surroundings and them will tell you which it's likely to be, though. If you're petting them and they're grinding then they're bruxing in happiness!
> 
> ...




ok i think it might be nervious then. it scurries away from me when i try picking it up.  is there some way that is simple to get it used to being picked up without it biting me? 

and i have it on pine for now..... not by choice though (ive been using a bag of pine i had stored away from i think 1997 that i use with feeder mice) 

i assume its the same problem as with ceder bedding?:?


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## K-TRAIN (Feb 20, 2009)

LeilaNami said:


> I would be careful using newspaper.  Just don't use the glossy paper they stuff inside.


LeilaNami, if i remember correctly you had herps before right? like a uromastyx i think?

if not im thinkin of someone else, do you think aspen bedding or something for snakes like that would be useful?


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## LeilaNami (Feb 20, 2009)

lol no you got me  

Aspen is the only wood shavings that I would recommend for any small animal.  The only thing about it is that it is not absorbent enough for the amount of waste that rats produce but as long as you are consistent in your bedding changes then Aspen will be fine.  I do prefer Softsorbent for my rats though.  It's usually priced in between aspen and Carefresh.  I've tried everything and my ratties seem to have the most fun playing around in the Softsorbent lol.  It even comes naturally scented with dried mint, rose, or lavender.  I've only used the cheaper unscented though.


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## K-TRAIN (Feb 20, 2009)

LeilaNami said:


> lol no you got me
> 
> Aspen is the only wood shavings that I would recommend for any small animal.  The only thing about it is that it is not absorbent enough for the amount of waste that rats produce but as long as you are consistent in your bedding changes then Aspen will be fine.  I do prefer Softsorbent for my rats though.  It's usually priced in between aspen and Carefresh.  I've tried everything and my ratties seem to have the most fun playing around in the Softsorbent lol.  It even comes naturally scented with dried mint, rose, or lavender.  I've only used the cheaper unscented though.


thought so lol uromastyx are awsome lizards  

so if i changed the bedding ever week then it would be fine to use? 
and also is softsorbent a common store brand? because i never heard of it before, and i go to petstores two or three times a week.


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## K-TRAIN (Feb 21, 2009)

*just to add to the thread*

this is a pic of the rat. its not the best because my camera isnt the greatest but it gets the job done.


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## LeilaNami (Feb 21, 2009)

K-TRAIN said:


> this is a pic of the rat. its not the best because my camera isnt the greatest but it gets the job done.


She's a cutie.  Yeah Softsorbent is sold at Petcos and PetSmarts.  So if you have one of those around you, you'll most likely find it.  Depending on the size of the cage, once a week is fine as long as the cage isn't overcrowded.  Softsorbent is basically compressed paper.  It isn't really pellets but they are small, little, white balls.

EDIT: Also, uros are freaking cool..Mine just wont grow lol


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## K-TRAIN (Feb 21, 2009)

LeilaNami said:


> She's a cutie.  Yeah Softsorbent is sold at Petcos and PetSmarts.  So if you have one of those around you, you'll most likely find it.  Depending on the size of the cage, once a week is fine as long as the cage isn't overcrowded.  Softsorbent is basically compressed paper.  It isn't really pellets but they are small, little, white balls.
> 
> EDIT: Also, uros are freaking cool..Mine just wont grow lol




EDIT: thanks. lol i cant figure out how some people cannot like a pet rat, there so cute and cool looking. 

the cage size is almost that of a ten gallon tank (if not the exact size, today i relocated the rat into a cage with a shelf it can go on, so it had some stuff to play with and chew on)

so once a week i should be aright i think.... well i hope lol
im hoping it doesnt end up like my turtles (cleaning every other day)


and your uro, it will grow slow, for some reason they grow at a slower rate then other lizards. i wish i still had mine, it was a rescue and i nursed it to health (it had no light and was fed crickets once a week before i got it) but it just went downhill and died afew weeks ago.


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## LeilaNami (Feb 21, 2009)

Haha but I think I've had it for a year...I don't think it's grown more than a centimeter! 

If you do aspen in that kind of cage, you might want to do every 5 days or so, just in case because of the smaller floor space.  A week _might_ be fine but if you notice any lingering odor (other than the normal slightly musky rat smell lol) start changing it more frequently or to something other than wood shavings.


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## K-TRAIN (Feb 21, 2009)

LeilaNami said:


> Haha but I think I've had it for a year...I don't think it's grown more than a centimeter!
> 
> If you do aspen in that kind of cage, you might want to do every 5 days or so, just in case because of the smaller floor space.  A week _might_ be fine but if you notice any lingering odor (other than the normal slightly musky rat smell lol) start changing it more frequently or to something other than wood shavings.


oh ok. and speaking of cleaning, so rats hide food like other rodents? im just wondering incase i give it vegitables or other stuff that could turn bad quickly.


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## maxxx (Feb 21, 2009)

*food*

they will usually eat fruits and veggy in a day or two.


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## LeilaNami (Feb 21, 2009)

Yeah they usually eat veggies right away lol but you want to take it out if they don't so no spoiling occurs.  My ratties take all the food out of the bowl and move it into a corner of the cage.


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## xBurntBytheSunx (Feb 21, 2009)

LeilaNami said:


> Stop right there.  The rat he has is captive born and raised in captivity. It is NOT a rat living in dumpsters and garbage cans.  They can diarrhea easily from sugary fruits and artificial sugars are bad for you, so why are you giving it to the rat?  Mazuri makes a really good pellet diet for ratties otherwise, the Kaytee brand Pet Block is available.  (what you are referring to as Rat Block I think)  I combine the pellet diet with a small handful of seeds from a fortified seed diet.  Also, fresh fruits and veggies are a recommended.  Otherwise, you seem to have it right. The stuff to chew on can be either wood sticks, mineral stones, or salt licks sold in pet stores.


i kept rats 6 years and i don't recall them ever getting diarrhea.  i'd give them orange slices, apple slices, chunks of bananna.  you name it.  never had a problem.  

why not give them a little bit of candy every now and then?  it might not be good for them but it won't kill them.  i gave mine little pieces of mint every now and then with no ill effect.  

no its not living in dumpsters but rats do survive in less than ideal conditions.  my only point is IMO you can, if you want, be very liberal with what you feed rats, unlike most every other animal.


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## Neuroticax (Feb 21, 2009)

Just because you CAN feed something to rats doesn't mean you SHOULD. It's like eating healthy for yourself. You CAN eat junk food but you SHOULDN'T. 
And orange slices shouldn't be fed to male rats, btw, just a note.

There are wild dogs and cats, would you feed your dog or cat fast food, chips and candy all the time? I would assume not. Can you? Yes. Should you? No. Same rules apply with rodents.

If you want your rat to be as healthy as they can be and live as long as they should, then a healthy, consistent diet is mandatory. If you don't give a crap how long it lives or if it's healthy then yes, by all means feed it things it shouldn't have along with candy. 

Anyway.

Your girl is shy, it will take some time for her to get warmed up and comfy. Try treats like veggies or dried fruits. Let her come to you, it might take some time, but it will happen.

Are you able to let her have some free range time? Time out of the cage is good for rats. They get their exercise and get more room to play. Just make sure you rat-proof whatever area you designate to free range.


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## K-TRAIN (Feb 21, 2009)

LeilaNami said:


> Yeah they usually eat veggies right away lol but you want to take it out if they don't so no spoiling occurs.  My ratties take all the food out of the bowl and move it into a corner of the cage.


should i avoid any fruits or vegitables, wat i mean is there somethings that arent as good for them? 


Neuroticax said:


> Just because you CAN feed something to rats doesn't mean you SHOULD. It's like eating healthy for yourself. You CAN eat junk food but you SHOULDN'T.
> And orange slices shouldn't be fed to male rats, btw, just a note.
> 
> There are wild dogs and cats, would you feed your dog or cat fast food, chips and candy all the time? I would assume not. Can you? Yes. Should you? No. Same rules apply with rodents.
> ...


will she (i believe its a girl) bite whats she first encounters though? 
i say that because i reach into the cage to interact with her, and it seems like she wants to bite, but never does (like she'll smell my hand and then open her mouth like shes going to try eating it. maybe shes just hungry?)


and it'll have plenty of free range time when i can handle her, and i have a old hamster ball im going to try so she can run in when i cant keep a close eye on her.


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## Neuroticax (Feb 21, 2009)

K-TRAIN said:


> should i avoid any fruits or vegitables, wat i mean is there somethings that arent as good for them?


I already gave you a link that states what foods to and not to feed rats. Here it is again. 

http://www.ratforum.com/index.php/topic,3079.0.html




K-TRAIN said:


> will she (i believe its a girl) bite whats she first encounters though?
> i say that because i reach into the cage to interact with her, and it seems like she wants to bite, but never does (like she'll smell my hand and then open her mouth like shes going to try eating it. maybe shes just hungry?)
> 
> 
> and it'll have plenty of free range time when i can handle her, and i have a old hamster ball im going to try so she can run in when i cant keep a close eye on her.


Most rats don't like hamster balls. It cuts off all the senses. If it doesn't like it the first time, don't force it, you'll just scare her. You're best bet is rat proofing a room and letting her run in there. Give her things like boxes, tubes and things to play with while she's out.

If she nips at you then you need to leave her alone and let her adjust. The link I gave you gives you ANY type of information you need regarding rats. Just do a search on it. Many people have the same problems with shy scared rats like yours. www.goosemoose.com


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## GiantVinegaroon (Feb 21, 2009)

Neuroticax said:


> I already gave you a link that states what foods to and not to feed rats. Here it is again.
> 
> http://www.ratforum.com/index.php/topic,3079.0.html
> 
> ...


best rat toy = old pair of jeans


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## K-TRAIN (Feb 21, 2009)

Neuroticax said:


> I already gave you a link that states what foods to and not to feed rats. Here it is again.
> 
> http://www.ratforum.com/index.php/topic,3079.0.html
> 
> ...



oh ok. i must of overlooked it when you posted by mistake. 

so she'll adjust then? do you know an average amout of time it normally takes?


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## Neuroticax (Feb 21, 2009)

That's really rat personality specific and how much you work with her. 

Like I said go over and read what other people have done in your situation. Mainly she needs to trust you. Lure her with treats, like I mentioned before.

If she goes to nip you, try and make a quick and loud "EEP". A lot of times this will work because they associate that with pain. If it doesn't then try another way. -When you said she went to nip at you (I think?) did she actually nip or was she going to nibble? Sometimes they will nibble and lick your fingers if you have anything on them.

While I think of it, check over her skin closely and make sure she doesn't have any infestation on her. Check the warm spots on her and go over thoroughly. Pet stores are notorious for selling rats infested with rodent lice. (No, this is not like human lice, you will not wake up with a head full of "our" lice. It's important to do this every so often if you buy you bedding from the stores, also. Bugs like to hide in bedding and then the animals suffer. A lot of people freeze their bedding for 24 hours before using it.

If you think she's nervous try not to make any sudden movements when you're around her. She probably hasn't had the best life thus far and is unsure of humans and things around her.


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## LeilaNami (Feb 21, 2009)

Also, the nipping as long as it's not hard and is a gentle chewing is a social behavior and nothing you should worry about.


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## xBurntBytheSunx (Feb 22, 2009)

Neuroticax said:


> Just because you CAN feed something to rats doesn't mean you SHOULD. It's like eating healthy for yourself. You CAN eat junk food but you SHOULDN'T.
> And orange slices shouldn't be fed to male rats, btw, just a note.
> 
> There are wild dogs and cats, would you feed your dog or cat fast food, chips and candy all the time? I would assume not. Can you? Yes. Should you? No. Same rules apply with rodents.
> ...


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## Neuroticax (Feb 22, 2009)

Stop quote mining.


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## arachyd (Feb 22, 2009)

I too think there is a bit of overdramatizing going on. Nobody suggested a steady diet of junk food like candy and oranges. Mine had full, long lives and were not fed a strict diet of "health food". They did have all they needed and then some.

It does not sound like the rat is scared. It sounds like it is exhibiting normal social behavior for a rat that has not been accustomed to humans. It is interested but not biting. Believe me, if the rat were scared it would retreat to the farthest corner of the cage when you approached. If it were aggressive it would bite. With rats that have done what you describe - open mouth but not biting - I simply ignore the mouth, slide my hand under the belly and gently scoop it up. I immediately put my arm against my chest and my other arm just a bit higher so the rat feels safe from falling. Then just see what the rat does. I've had many pet store feeders get used to me in one day this way. They quickly learn you are warm and snuggly, fun to climb on, and are another creature to socialize with. They will actually come to like you in a social relationship, not just as the bringer of food. I've never been bitten by picking up an inquisitive feeder rat. Just make sure to wash your hands thoroughly first because if your hands smell even faintly of food the rat may bite thinking you are giving it a treat. Never pick it up by the tail.


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## K-TRAIN (Feb 22, 2009)

arachyd said:


> It does not sound like the rat is scared. It sounds like it is exhibiting normal social behavior for a rat that has not been accustomed to humans. It is interested but not biting. Believe me, if the rat were scared it would retreat to the farthest corner of the cage when you approached. If it were aggressive it would bite. With rats that have done what you describe - open mouth but not biting - I simply ignore the mouth, slide my hand under the belly and gently scoop it up. I immediately put my arm against my chest and my other arm just a bit higher so the rat feels safe from falling. Then just see what the rat does. I've had many pet store feeders get used to me in one day this way. They quickly learn you are warm and snuggly, fun to climb on, and are another creature to socialize with. They will actually come to like you in a social relationship, not just as the bringer of food. I've never been bitten by picking up an inquisitive feeder rat. Just make sure to wash your hands thoroughly first because if your hands smell even faintly of food the rat may bite thinking you are giving it a treat. Never pick it up by the tail.


it does move away from me though, for instince when i tried picking her up yesterday she tried burrowing under the bedding. 

would that be normal or is it afraid?


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## Neuroticax (Feb 22, 2009)

A rat that's running away from movements is scared and nervous. As I said before it needs to get used to the environment and most importantly, you.

Do you have places for it to hide? They love things like those igloos, hammocks, tissue boxes, etc.

Like I said before you need to be slow. Sit there with your hand in the cage for amounts of time, let her get used to you. No sudden movements. Again with the treats, she needs to associate you with good, yummy things. Over time that will help. She also might need a companion. She probably will eventually, but with her being shy it might help her more. 

Can you get a picture of her (its) privates?


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## pouchedrat (Feb 22, 2009)

Rats are absolutely amazing creatures.. I've been keeping them for 14 years now and cannot imagine a life without them.  Currently I have 7 boys in a ferret nation 142, all ranging in age from old, to ancient (lol). 

Ok, bits of treats won't harm them as long as it's occasional.  Rats really can eat most anything except what's on the list that was already given.  I do feed mine a tiny baker's chocolate chip once in a while, as it supposedly helps with their respiratory problems (I have one with chronic myco flareups, despite treatment it doesn't go away for long.. the lungs are probably scarred up).   Other than that I give them a rat mix I made up long ago that is similar to Suebee's (from when we first met online and off many years back).  It contains kashi cereal, oats, dried pasta, low protein dog food, soybeans, etc. Basically it always changes and it's whatever I find at the time.  Variety is always the key, never feed just one food item all the time.  

Aspen bedding doesn't really hold odor, but it's the safest commonly found wood bedding out there.  I use unscented Yesterdays news, and buy the large bags in the cat litter section.  Since my rats are litter box trained, it lasts a long time.  The shelves and floors are covered with fleece and I wash them twice a week with their hammocks.  

The general cage calculator is here:  http://www.rattycorner.com/odds/calc.shtml
Girls use up less space and are smaller, but are more active than boys.  Boys just laze about and sleep most of the time.  Of course there's exceptions to the rule but it's the behaviors we mostly observe.  
One thing to note with cage bars, if their head can squeeze out of it, the rest of their body can too.  You'd be surprised what they can get out of, even a big fat 2lb. male.  Usually bar space shouldn't exceed 1/2" although I do use a cage with 1" bar spacing successfully, but they're adult males and I have had one who still likes to escape and visit me in my living room unexpectedly.  

They do need to be kept in same sex pairs to be happy.  You CAN keep one singly, but they groom each other, sleep together, and are just in general extremely social animals who crave the company of others.  I've always kept somewhat "large" colonies (ok, usually around 10 or so rats, other rat people keep larger than me) in the largest cage possible, and when you do, you witness their social structure in the works.  There's the Alpha rat, the beta, and what I've experienced personally, I like to call the "grandmother figure", which all the other rats help out, feed, and is the overall say to the other rats.  If a fight happens between the alpha and another rat, this one will come over and just pin one, and that's it, fight is over.   It's just a personal experience I've seen far more than once or twice in my crew, thought it was interesting to mention.  Even with other rats around, they still will bond to you as well, and accept your hand as another member of their crew. 


You mentioned you heard a noise..  what does this noise sound like?  Does it sound like gurgling snuffling sneezing noise?  It could be a respiratory infection in the works.  It'd need to be treated by a vet if it is, though.  If it's a clicking teeth grinding noise, that's called bruxing, although they wouldn't be doing it all the time.  That means they're content, happy, or in pain (I believe this was already mentioned). 

They use their mouth to test out everything, especially young rats.  They may nip, but usually never bite.  Although once again, from an unknown background, you can't rule out biting.  Just make a high pitched EEP noise and that'll deter a bite.  

You can always force bond.  If you have a hoodie with front pockets, or if you sew up a bonding pouch, just keep the rat in that all day with you, keeping your fingers in with it, getting it used to your smell, etc.  Offer it treats by hand and such and it'll calm down in the enclosed environment and associate you with goodness.  You can even potty train the rat.  If it gets antsy, put it back in it's cage to do it's business, and take it back out of the cage again.  Rats eventually will learn NOT to pee or poo on you, and will try to get away from you when they really have to go to the bathroom.  They can even be litter box trained fairly easily (haha, I say that but I have one who downright refuses to use the litter boxes even though I always scoop his poo in the cage into the box.  I think it's because he lived in a tiny box most of his life before he came to me, so he just goes wherever he's standing).  
Usually a good rule of thumb is every half hour, then every hour putting the rat back in it's cage, then waiting a few minutes, then take it back out again to get used to using it's cage to go to the bathroom.  

I will warn you that once it gets used to you, it may scent mark you.  Males that are neutered stop this activity altogether, but females don't, even if they're spayed.  They stop doing it once you're pretty much theirs, though, lol...


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## Neuroticax (Feb 22, 2009)

I use the dark chocolate whenever mine seems to be making noises. 

Not all males stop scent marking after they are neutered. It's rare but it's not 100%. Females have been known to mark also.


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## LeilaNami (Feb 22, 2009)

xBurntBytheSunx said:


> Neuroticax said:
> 
> 
> > Just because you CAN feed something to rats doesn't mean you SHOULD. It's like eating healthy for yourself. You CAN eat junk food but you SHOULDN'T.
> ...


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## Drachenjager (Feb 22, 2009)

K-TRAIN said:


> ok its been awhile since i posted on the boards but anyway two days ago i went out for food for my reptiles, and only one place around me has live pinky mice. (i just bought a cornsnake who was fed live so i wanted to make sure it would eat) and i wanted to get mice for my ball python. i got to the store etc, and they had no mice. so i talked to the people working there and they suggested a small rat after i gave them a estimate of my bps size. well took the rat home and it looks too big to feed to my bp, and i cant seem to bring myself to take it back or try to feed it to emily (my bp)
> 
> so i have a pet rat for now. its in a small hampster cage with a coolwhip container for water and some hampster bedding (i think its aspen not sure) and a small exercise wheel. ive been feeding it bread until i can get some decent food for it.
> 
> ...



it needs housed with a really big T blondi...well maybe lol
a rats a rat. it does not matter at all if its was bred as a feeder its still a rat.


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## K-TRAIN (Feb 22, 2009)

Neuroticax said:


> A rat that's running away from movements is scared and nervous. As I said before it needs to get used to the environment and most importantly, you.
> 
> Do you have places for it to hide? They love things like those igloos, hammocks, tissue boxes, etc.
> 
> ...


i actually just put a hide in today. a empty tissue box. 
they only problem right now companion wise is i dont have the money to buy a bigger cage at the moment.
do you know of any kind of self made cage i could make? 

and ill look again, but im 90% sure its a female.  



Drachenjager said:


> it needs housed with a really big T blondi...well maybe lol
> a rats a rat. it does not matter at all if its was bred as a feeder its still a rat.


lol i wish i had a T blondi lol 
not to feed rodents to but becasue its a species i like.


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## LeilaNami (Feb 22, 2009)

Do you have any large aquariums?  You can temporarily house it in that but make sure you clean the bedding on schedule or the ammonia buildup with get to be too much for the baby.  Also...bird cage? lol

Oh, if it's a male it will be _obvious_. Like dragging on the ground obvious


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## K-TRAIN (Feb 22, 2009)

LeilaNami said:


> Do you have any large aquariums?  You can temporarily house it in that but make sure you clean the bedding on schedule or the ammonia buildup with get to be too much for the baby.  Also...bird cage? lol
> 
> Oh, if it's a male it will be _obvious_. Like dragging on the ground obvious


i have two twenty gallon tanks, one recently held a snake and the other turtles (or a uromastyx, i cant remember) 

will that hold two rats or possibly three? 

and i assumed it would be obvious if it was a male, so im sure its female.

now to give it a good name    ive been calling it "ritz" for the last few days (it loves ritz crackers)


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## LeilaNami (Feb 22, 2009)

K-TRAIN said:


> i have two twenty gallon tanks, one recently held a snake and the other turtles (or a uromastyx, i cant remember)
> 
> will that hold two rats or possibly three?
> 
> ...


I'd say it's pushing it with two and definately not three unless you plant to change the bedding every other day.  Only keep that as a temp enclosure though.


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## K-TRAIN (Feb 22, 2009)

LeilaNami said:


> I'd say it's pushing it with two and definately not three unless you plant to change the bedding every other day.  Only keep that as a temp enclosure though.


oh ok. i only said three because i normally try to give more then enough space when i have two or more animals in one enclosure, normally i give enough extra space to hold an extra animal. 

but tomorrow ill have it in a twenty gallon.

are there any specific brands of cages better then others? i mean experience wise?


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## LeilaNami (Feb 22, 2009)

Not really. I actually had four rats in a four story ferret cage.  They had a blast.  Just make sure it's a wire cage for plenty of ventilation.  You will actually save money buying a ferret cage usually.  Just make sure they can't fit their head through the bars.  For comparison, I had a 3 story cage from Petco with wheel that cost me $75..I then bought a four story ferret cage for $90. The second cage had far more room because the shelves were spaced out.  Rats love to climb so this wasn't a problem.


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## K-TRAIN (Feb 23, 2009)

LeilaNami said:


> Not really. I actually had four rats in a four story ferret cage.  They had a blast.  Just make sure it's a wire cage for plenty of ventilation.  You will actually save money buying a ferret cage usually.  Just make sure they can't fit their head through the bars.  For comparison, I had a 3 story cage from Petco with wheel that cost me $75..I then bought a four story ferret cage for $90. The second cage had far more room because the shelves were spaced out.  Rats love to climb so this wasn't a problem.


oh ok. i think when i get the money ill try for the four story cage then. 


thanks for all your help, i appreciate it.


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## LeilaNami (Feb 23, 2009)

No problem  :}


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## xBurntBytheSunx (Feb 26, 2009)

LeilaNami said:


> xBurntBytheSunx said:
> 
> 
> > (sorry I'm gonna quote mine here  )
> ...


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## LeilaNami (Feb 26, 2009)

xBurntBytheSunx said:


> LeilaNami said:
> 
> 
> > i don't belive in safety.  any piece of food you give your pets at any time could be tainted in some way.
> ...


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## xBurntBytheSunx (Feb 27, 2009)

you really can't let this drop can you?

it isn't sane to reject the idea of "safety" as being possible?  are you truely safe at any time?  is there actually a time or place where you couldn't die for any variety of reasons?  

i guarantee any food you buy at the petstore or anywhere else, at any time, could possibly have something in it that could kill any of your pets, whether by accident or negligence.  your pets could die at any time for any reason no matter how well you take care of them. 

i enjoy how self-righteous your internet opinion is.   "Start reconsidering your responsibility as a pet owner."   I'll be looking forward to more of your pearls of wisdom.


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## K-TRAIN (Feb 27, 2009)

xBurntBytheSunx said:


> you really can't let this drop can you?
> 
> it isn't sane to reject the idea of "safety" as being possible?  are you truely safe at any time?  is there actually a time or place where you couldn't die for any variety of reasons?
> 
> ...


ok.. normally i wouldnt say anything to bickering, but since this i started the thread and i did reaseach on what you told me, the facts outweight your ideas......

sure animals die without reason, sure animals can die by accident, but all animals are different yet the same.

for example, i had a friend whos dog died from eating a piece of chocolate, while my dad had one who ate a whole bar of chocolate and it didnt die. 

all animals are slightly different in terms of how resistent they are to some things, thats what we call evolution, those who have traits that make them fit to survive do survive.

same goes  for rats, you may feed yours candy from time to time, but just because your rats arent having problems eating it doesnt mean another rat wouldnt have problems. 

generally all animals i can think of have trouble with candy. 

not saying your wrong about feeding candy to rats, its just something that most advise not to do, i mean these days they say everythings "bad for you" or "does this"  or "causes that", but in the end who knows the effects from different foods besides the general average of effects.

i guess what im trying to say is one thing that works for one person may not work for another person (or pet for that matter)  

so please stop the bickering about it...... its worthless to argue an oppinion.


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## LeilaNami (Feb 27, 2009)

xBurntBytheSunx said:


> you really can't let this drop can you?
> 
> it isn't sane to reject the idea of "safety" as being possible?  are you truely safe at any time?  is there actually a time or place where you couldn't die for any variety of reasons?
> 
> ...


It is complete different to feed something that is supposed to be safe for your rattie than to feed something you have no freaking clue to the ingredients and whether they are toxic or not to the animal.  You are simply making excuses for your irresponsibility and it is offensive.  Learn from your peers on this forum rather than rejecting all thoughts on your practice.  Self-righteousness has nothing to do with my opinion on your practices. Sarcasm is not appreciated.

K-TRAIN, good luck with your rattie.


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## xBurntBytheSunx (Feb 28, 2009)

LeilaNami said:


> It is complete different to feed something that is supposed to be safe for your rattie than to feed something you have no freaking clue to the ingredients and whether they are toxic or not to the animal.  You are simply making excuses for your irresponsibility and it is offensive.  Learn from your peers on this forum rather than rejecting all thoughts on your practice.  Self-righteousness has nothing to do with my opinion on your practices. Sarcasm is not appreciated.
> 
> K-TRAIN, good luck with your rattie.


ah more nuggets, thank so much.  i understand it is your unyielding desire to have the last word.  after all that makes you right doesn't it?  

i guess i should be sorry that my simple opinion, is so offensive to you, that it leaves you incapable of responding to any sort of logic i present to you.  i however, am not.  

i find your posts ignorant, self-righteous, and annoying.  you offer no worthwhile substance to this discussion.  you keep responding with the same thing over and over simply to have the last word.  

however this will be my last post on the subject.  my opinion stands firm.  tiny pieces of candy fed on occasion will not hurt your rat, just like they won't hurt your children, or even you.  if my opinion makes you so angry that you can't stand it, i suggest you find psychological help b/c something is wrong with you if you can't fathom the thought that someone who you don't even know, and who probably lives hundreds of miles away from you has differing oppinions on rodent husbandry.  

this is my last post on this subject.  i'm tired or presenting logic to someone who can't understand it.  but you should be happy.  you win!  i'm an idiot, i'm giving you your chance to have the last word.  i will not respond to your next post no matter what you tell me, no matter how profound or unintelligible it is.  i no longer care what you have to say.  you can tell me i'm fat, stupid, ugly, and all sorts of awful things.  you can tell me to give all my pets to a shelter and commit suicide.  you can say you made sweet love to my mother while i was unaware of your doing so.  you can tell me you love me and want to have my children.   i don't care! you win! you freaking win!  you won an arguement on the internet.  congratulations!

write this day on your calendar.  you won an arguement on the internet February 28, of 2009 in the year of our Lord.  light a candle on this day for every year afterward in memorium of your glorious victory in virtual oratory!  tell your children about it.  tell their children about it! tell everyone you ever meet about it.  you are an internet arguement winner!  you win! you win! you win!  halleluah!! Praise God! Praise L. Ron Hubbard!  Praise Peanut Butter and Marmalade! You won an internet arguement!


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## Flower (Feb 28, 2009)

I breed blue and siamese dumbo and rex rats. 

I feed mine a high quality dog food, like Blue Buffalo. That's considered one of the best foods among people in the rat community. You'll need a bigger cage, and rats prefer out of cage time to wheels, rodent "balls", or anything else that little less intelligent rodents enjoy. Rats are very smart.

Make sure you have aspen or Carefresh bedding. Buy a little plastic igloo or wooden hut for it to hide in and have privacy while in it's cage. Rodents love that.

Rats need to chew. Bones are especially good, because the meat on them really encourages rats to chew. They, unlike dogs, can even chew chicken bones, because they gnaw and the bones don't fracture the same way that makes them potentially deadly do dogs.

No matter how much time you spend with your rat, it'll be lonely when you're gone or not playing with it. Rats are group animals. Consider getting the rat a friend (of the same gender of course) if it's male, make sure to take precautions so they don't fight. If you need further help, PM me.


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## Flower (Feb 28, 2009)

LeilaNami said:


> xBurntBytheSunx said:
> 
> 
> > (sorry I'm gonna quote mine here  )
> ...


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## LeilaNami (Feb 28, 2009)

Flower said:


> LeilaNami said:
> 
> 
> > To clarify this argument that's been going on:
> ...


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