# Look at those little guys...



## Adnan

P. nigriventer babies!!


----------



## Crotalus

Nice! Congrats! 
Did you mate the female or was it a gravid WC?

/Lelle


----------



## Steven

d*mn cute  :worship:  :worship:  :worship: 




good luck in getting them adult


----------



## Adnan

Crotalus said:
			
		

> Nice! Congrats!
> Did you mate the female or was it a gravid WC?
> 
> /Lelle


Home mate!  
But the male was killed...


----------



## ccpizza

that has to be one of the most AWESOME pics I have ever seen in this category or any other category.  I hope that you won't mind that I have set it as my background on my computer desktop


----------



## Adnan

Thank you!  

Feel free to use as your desktop!


----------



## Adnan

Wow!! Time to count!


----------



## Steven

____________________________________ nice


----------



## Adnan

Thanks!


----------



## El Johano

Wow!  :clap:


----------



## MeteoRa

:clap: that's a lot of them... congrats


----------



## Crotalus

Adnan said:
			
		

> Wow!! Time to count!


Make sure to keep them in a bulletproof box ;-) Escape artists...

/Lelle


----------



## xanadu1015

Have fun counting lol



Very nice...enjoy 


Laura


----------



## Adnan

Freshly molted one!


----------



## xanadu1015

Awesome!!   :worship: 


Keep those pics coming!!



Laura


----------



## Malhavoc's

aww, the widdle guys are growing up


----------



## Adnan

Thanks, laura!
It´s hard to take pictures of that spiders! They are too small... and so fast!! 

Maybe in the next molt!


----------



## Adnan

Ok, another pic... to show the size of the beast!


----------



## Adnan

A little update!


----------



## Steven

cute  :}  :drool: 


and very nice pictures as well  :clap:


----------



## Schlyne

Very Very Nice.   :worship:


----------



## Adnan

Thanks, guys!


----------



## Haplopelmatic

They are friggin' awesome dude!  :worship:  Please do keep this journal updated and well illustrated!  :clap: 

Best of luck!


----------



## Adnan

Thanks, Haplopelmatic!


----------



## Adnan

New molt...


----------



## Lochala

Are they starting to get mean now? They are very cute by the way and congrats for getting them along this far. :clap:  :clap:


----------



## Sequin

oh jeeze, they're so cute...with that many of em, did you seperate them all, or let them eat each other off  a bit?
~Meagan~


----------



## dkny_stylez

those are creepy looking ;P


----------



## Adnan

Lochala said:
			
		

> Are they starting to get mean now? They are very cute by the way and congrats for getting them along this far. :clap:  :clap:


Thank you!  
They are quite docile... but they have only 0,9 cm!


----------



## Adnan

~AnimalQueen~ said:
			
		

> oh jeeze, they're so cute...with that many of em, did you seperate them all, or let them eat each other off  a bit?
> ~Meagan~


I just have four spiders of the first eggsac, in separeted enclosures.

I let the rest go in a wooded area here in São Paulo...


----------



## demolitionlover

Really nice pictures. Now I want a better camera. : )


----------



## Tarantula Lover

whats the commmon name for this spider? I collect tarantulas so im new at spids and common names. Very nice pics!! You have a hell alot more counting to do!! 



James


----------



## Adnan

Hi, James!

For you, the common name is Banana Spider and Brazilian Wandering Spider.
Here in Brazil, its "Armadeira"!


----------



## roach dude

*wow!*

wow________________________     :clap:  :worship: great pics congrats


----------



## Adnan

New molt!


----------



## Crotalus

Adnan said:
			
		

> New molt!


Great! 3rd molt now? Prepare for sudden death... 
I hope you get them to survive!

/Lelle


----------



## Adnan

4rd molt... ;P


----------



## Crotalus

Adnan said:
			
		

> 4rd molt... ;P



They might be over the critical stage then
How large are they now? 

/Lelle


----------



## Adnan

2 cm! I hope that they survive...


----------



## Stardust

wow..realli nice pics..i enjoyed everyone of them....Keep it up and good luck to u ~  :clap:


----------



## Adnan

Thanks!


----------



## El Johano

Most of mine died during the 5:th moult. I'll keep my fingers crossed for them


----------



## JonDaAzn

what are you feeding them? they dont look big enough to eat pinheads... are you raising fruit flies?


----------



## blacktara

*Question*

And excuse me if I sound dumb, because I'm a newbie

 I have kept a widow in captivity and had no problems and no worries

 I am curious about how to keep some of the more sturdy and aggressive venomous species like Phoneutria and Atrax in captivity

 I think that since no spider will go after a person who doesnt provoke it somehow, that with a little common sense and caution, one could easily manage an adult or two

 But hundreds of babies? My worry would be that they escape unnoticed and then eventually you will find yourself unwittingly provoking a spider you encounter in the house that you didnt know was there

  Where are you keeping these guys?

  Also - are they already armed and dangerous at this young age?

  Also, where could someone in the States get a hold of a Phoneutria or an Atrax to try and keep as a "pet"?


----------



## Freddie

Uglier and uglier after every molt LOL
Sorry just had to but those adults are really not that beautiful 

They still are kind of cute but not for too long.
Good luck with them anyway


----------



## blacktara

*Video*

Curious if anyone has any video of one of these things or any of the funnel web species doing the threat dance and/or a bolt

I have heard of how fast they are, and how they'll pivot to follow you and run up broom handles and such, but a picture is a thousand words

After all, some of the stories may be true, but there's also a lot of bs out there - stuff like stories that Atrax jumps or that spiders stalk people

Someone's gotta have or be able to make some video without taking a big risk of getting tagged


----------



## Adnan

JonDaAzn said:
			
		

> what are you feeding them? they dont look big enough to eat pinheads... are you raising fruit flies?


Now, they can kill pretty large crickets!

A picture for you:


----------



## Adnan

blacktara said:
			
		

> But hundreds of babies?


I have only 4 spiders of the first eggsac and 10 of the second. I let the rest go free.



> Also - are they already armed and dangerous at this young age?


They have around 3 cm now. I think they can bite me... but due to the small amount of venon, They can´t do so much damage.


----------



## Adnan

blacktara said:
			
		

> Curious if anyone has any video of one of these things or any of the funnel web species doing the threat dance and/or a bolt
> 
> I have heard of how fast they are, and how they'll pivot to follow you and run up broom handles and such, but a picture is a thousand words
> 
> After all, some of the stories may be true, but there's also a lot of bs out there - stuff like stories that Atrax jumps or that spiders stalk people
> 
> Someone's gotta have or be able to make some video without taking a big risk of getting tagged


Here is a crappy video for you. Sorry about the quality! :8o

Phoneutria.avi 

Password/Senha: *49818F32* 

You will NEDD the *Xvid Codec* to see the video!


----------



## Crotalus

Adnan said:
			
		

> I have only 4 spiders of the first eggsac and 10 of the second.


I think I will do just that - concentrate on a few and get rid of the rest. Seems to work for you. Can you provide some info on temp, humidity etc how you keep the slings?
Darn, all I need now is a male...

/Lelle


----------



## Adnan

I do not control the temp and humidity. I´m in Brazil, so I don´t need to do that.

But I can provide the stats of São Paulo, where I live.

Temp: 25º C
Humidity: 80%

Hope it can help you...


----------



## Crotalus

Ok seems to be a fluke if they survive or not. Just try again then  Bertani at Butantan had same difficulties as myself in getting those slings to survive so I guess its not the conditions here in a apartment of Sweden that is the problem.

Do you keep other species of the genus?

/Lelle


----------



## blacktara

*Video*

I tried downloading that codec and no matter what kept getting some error message about "no suitable decompressor available" -

If anyone could convert that video to a more generally accepted format, something that windows media will play, it would be much appreciated


----------



## Adnan

Crotalus said:
			
		

> Do you keep other species of the genus?
> 
> /Lelle


I have only the P. nigriventer...


----------



## Adnan

blacktara said:
			
		

> I tried downloading that codec and no matter what kept getting some error message about "no suitable decompressor available" -
> 
> If anyone could convert that video to a more generally accepted format, something that windows media will play, it would be much appreciated


Try this version: Xvid Codec


----------



## Steven

awsome slings  


Hopefully someone will breed these in Europe again soon


----------



## blacktara

*Video*

Very cool - Is that your spider? If so, we want more !!


----------



## Adnan

Yes, it´s my spider! But I have only a DSC-F717 to make videos, and it´s sucks!


----------



## Adnan




----------



## Steven

> DSC-F717 to make videos, and it´s sucks!


but for making pictures it RULES


----------



## Adnan

Steven said:
			
		

> but for making pictures it RULES


Ohhh, yeahh!


----------



## blacktara

*Curious what the guy who is trying to breed these thinks of this one*

http://home.planet.nl/~noor2201/pn2.jpg <P>

In my personal opinion, the owner of that thumb is a leading candidate for a Darwin Award - (most likely to remove themselves from the gene pool as a direct consequence of their own stupidity, for those who arent familiar with the Darwins)


----------



## Adnan

Well, I think its a fake image!


----------



## Randolph XX()

was that a dead one?


----------



## Adnan

Dead guy or dead spider?  

Maybe a Photo-montage... looks fake to me.


----------



## Steven

Are you guys sure the spider on that picture is a Phoneutria ?  :? 
The picture doesn't look fake to me,... 

just wondering how you can tell if it's a Phoneutria and no other spider on that picture ( you can't see the Eyes or carapax,... or isn't that necesarry ?)


----------



## Adnan

Looks like a Phoneutria for sure... but still looks fake to me!  

-----------------------------------------------------------

Is this image a fake?


----------



## blacktara

*Looks to me*

Like youve got the enclosure tilted up and laying your hand against the glass <P>

How did I do?


----------



## blacktara

*From the same page as the other one*

http://home.planet.nl/~noor2201/pn1.jpg <P>

That's a real Phoneutria for sure - doesnt authenticate the second pic of course


----------



## Steven

Adnan said:
			
		

> Is this image a fake?


yes 


mmmm, or maybe not  :razz: 

the light on the spider and your hand just doesn't seem to be right :?


----------



## Steven

blacktara said:
			
		

> http://home.planet.nl/~noor2201/pn1.jpg <P>
> 
> That's a real Phoneutria for sure - doesnt authenticate the second pic of course



the site you're getting those pictures from is Dutch,... quite sure the guy holding the spider and the spider in the grass are not from around my region


----------



## blacktara

*Now what may be a silly question*

Would it be POSSIBLE that if one kept totally still and waited for the spider to climb on and off of its own will, that it would think of your hand as "surface" and therefore not attack it, or do they sense heat in some way or would they be able to recognize by the hair on your skin that you are "animal" and thereore immediately see you as either threat or prey? <P>

I almost said "organic" instead of "animal" there but then realized that they dont attack foliage or the bark of trees. <P>

Anyway, that first pic looks real to me - the way the legs fit onto the thumb, and the spider's position doesnt look like a posed dead one - <P>

Maybe the guy figured the potential suffering was worth the notoriety?


----------



## blacktara

*By the way*

What's the latest news on your little rascals? Still doing well ?


----------



## Adnan

blacktara said:
			
		

> Would it be POSSIBLE that if one kept totally still and waited for the spider to climb on and off of its own will, that it would think of your hand as "surface" and therefore not attack it


Yes, its possible... but the spiders of this genus are really fast and sometimes they run with no reason... Its a very bad idea.


----------



## Adnan

blacktara said:
			
		

> What's the latest news on your little rascals? Still doing well ?


Yes, they are so fat now!


----------



## Adnan

No fake this time!


----------



## Wade

blacktara said:
			
		

> Would it be POSSIBLE that if one kept totally still and waited for the spider to climb on and off of its own will, that it would think of your hand as "surface" and therefore not attack it, or do they sense heat in some way or would they be able to recognize by the hair on your skin that you are "animal" and thereore immediately see you as either threat or prey? <P>
> 
> I almost said "organic" instead of "animal" there but then realized that they dont attack foliage or the bark of trees. <P>
> 
> Anyway, that first pic looks real to me - the way the legs fit onto the thumb, and the spider's position doesnt look like a posed dead one - <P>
> 
> Maybe the guy figured the potential suffering was worth the notoriety?


Generally speaking, a spider that is alowed to walk on you unimpeded will not bite. I don't know if this is true for Phoneutria or not, but I'd be very surprised if it wasn't. This is the great secret of all those "look at me hold a P. murinus" pictures you see on the tarantula forums, which inevitably get two types of responses: the "wow you're so brave" and the "gee you're so stupid". Niether description is really correct, but the handler could be accused of being a show off at the very least.

There's still a risk involved because these are very fast spiders and may decide to dash up an arm and into a sleeve and then things could get dicey. They could also jump off thehand and escape...also bad. Also, a spider that's already been agitated by being moved around might be more likley to bite in circumstances where it normally wouldn't.

We can only speculate as to why spiders don't bite in these situations. Do they think we're just some warm, soft, moving tree? Are their brains so simple that they cannot grasp the concept of being on annother creature thats vastly larger than themselves? Are they aware that a bite would lead to the larger creature defending itself and getting themselves smashed? No way to know. Evolution has probably not equipped them with ways to respond to these wacky primates who don't want to eat them but do want to hold them.

Wade


----------



## Adnan

> ...or do they sense heat in some way or would they be able to recognize by the hair on your skin that you are "animal" and thereore immediately see you as either threat or prey? <P>


The big guy of the last photo doesn´t like the contact with my hand... I dont now how an adult can react to this situation...


----------



## blacktara

*Some more questions and comments about phoneutria*

1- What are the visual differences between Fera and Nigriventer? 
2- Which is the one found in and around Sao Paolo? I had read somewhere it was Fera, but from scrolling these threads, I am thinking that's wrong?
3- What's the real scoop on their "temperment"? They are big, fairly sturyd spiders who ambush or chase down prey and have potent venom, so it's not surprising that they would not be timid, but arent the reports of how aggressive they are just a wee bit overstated? I think people get bitten when they accidentally put hands or feet near a spider they dont know is there - like in a glove or shoe where a male has hidden for the day after a night's wanderings. That spider might see your foot as prey, but more likely as a serious threat to its life, and it bites because well, it knows it doesnt have to run away. But "aggressive" or "vicious" or "mean" as I've heard them being described. I hardly think Phoneutria wakes up in the morning and thinks "I'm gonna go find some people to bite today"
4- The rumors and legends and myths here are multiple. If you look at a lot of websites, they quote the same few sources. Words like "lethal" are tossed around like candy instead of the more correct "dangerous and potentially fatal" - I've read poppycock like these guys people able to jump 30" from a standing start, and wives tales of banana pickers hacking their limbs off on the spot after a bite - This stuff ranks up there with the hook killer who stalks lovers lane or the gangs who dope you up and leave you in a tub of ice water with a kidney missing that they've hacked out to sell to organ transplant centers
5- Read the accounts of people who find spiders in their bananas - They'll say that the spider "pops ou" or "shoots out" - (heck ya, wouldnt you if you've been shipped overseas in a fruit crate?) - and then heads for a dark crevice in the house - That's not a vicious killer looking to do bodily harm - it's a frightened likely starving and stressed critter that is following survival instinct
6- Any personal accounts out there from somehow who has gotten tagged by one of these beasties?


----------



## Crotalus

blacktara said:
			
		

> 1- What are the visual differences between Fera and Nigriventer?


Locality is a must have. Fera do not occur naturally in the atlantic coast. And fera is somewhat lighter in color and a little larger, but thats no good in determine the species cos nigriventer and fera can vary in color. But for a 100% ID you need the identification keys, and dead spiders plus a microscope.



			
				blacktara said:
			
		

> 2- Which is the one found in and around Sao Paolo? I had read somewhere it was Fera, but from scrolling these threads, I am thinking that's wrong?


Wrong. Its nigriventer. 



			
				blacktara said:
			
		

> 3- What's the real scoop on their "temperment"? They are big, fairly sturyd spiders who ambush or chase down prey and have potent venom, so it's not surprising that they would not be timid, but arent the reports of how aggressive they are just a wee bit overstated? I think people get bitten when they accidentally put hands or feet near a spider they dont know is there - like in a glove or shoe where a male has hidden for the day after a night's wanderings. That spider might see your foot as prey, but more likely as a serious threat to its life, and it bites because well, it knows it doesnt have to run away. But "aggressive" or "vicious" or "mean" as I've heard them being described. I hardly think Phoneutria wakes up in the morning and thinks "I'm gonna go find some people to bite today"


They are very unpredictable spiders, can be very aggressive and bite tweezer etc. They climb on anything and are very fast moving spiders.
Yeah offcourse no spider in the world ambush people and activly hunts us down to bite us. Accidents is happening when these spider get into houses and hide in a shoe for example. No they are not footeaters, they are about to get crushed in the shoe so offcourse they try to defend themselfs.
I do use the word "aggressive" , as in using aggression to defend themselfs. I know many dont like that word, but in nature alot of animals use just fullfrontal aggression to get rid of a potential predator. While "mean" or  "vicious" are not applied on animals. 



			
				blacktara said:
			
		

> 4- The rumors and legends and myths here are multiple. If you look at a lot of websites, they quote the same few sources. Words like "lethal" are tossed around like candy instead of the more correct "dangerous and potentially fatal" - I've read poppycock like these guys people able to jump 30" from a standing start, and wives tales of banana pickers hacking their limbs off on the spot after a bite - This stuff ranks up there with the hook killer who stalks lovers lane or the gangs who dope you up and leave you in a tub of ice water with a kidney missing that they've hacked out to sell to organ transplant centers


They are dangerous to the point you might die. Thats a fact.
Myths surrounding venomous animals are not only about Phoneutria - theres plenty of myths about ordinary tarantulas... like jumping a great distance etc.



			
				blacktara said:
			
		

> 5- Read the accounts of people who find spiders in their bananas - They'll say that the spider "pops ou" or "shoots out" - (heck ya, wouldnt you if you've been shipped overseas in a fruit crate?) - and then heads for a dark crevice in the house - That's not a vicious killer looking to do bodily harm - it's a frightened likely starving and stressed critter that is following survival instinct


Yes. Offcourse.



			
				blacktara said:
			
		

> 6- Any personal accounts out there from somehow who has gotten tagged by one of these beasties?


Thankfully I havent.

/Lelle


----------



## blacktara

*Thanks for the insight - next question*

What about other related species - other Phoneutria species and other wanderers/Ctenids from the New World tropics. I believe that there are lots of different varieties of these spiders native to various rain forest regions. Could it be like with the funnel webs where the Atrax gets the notoriety but there are others like Formidibalis out there that are potentially more dangerous but where there just arent enough contacts with humans to have buildt up a reputation? <P>

Are some of these non-dangerous to humans? Or is the bite of any Ctenid/wanderer likely to be dangerous or maybe just nasty due to the size of the spider, potential infection, etc etc? <P>

I'd still love to see a video of one of these guys running full speed or attacking something. The video that adnan posted of his spider swaying back and forth as it contemplates his hand is neat - but the spider never makes an attempt to attack (or to retreat for that matter) <P>

And also would like a documented account of the results of a bite. <P>

I hope these questions arent tedious - just trying to learn something and seperate fact from rumor, myth, and outright fiction <P>

Crotalus - any thoughts on the authenticity of the pic of the spider on in the guy's hand a little ways up this thread?


----------



## blacktara

*The problem is*

That too many people do in fact use words like "mean" or "vicious" <P>

Folks seem to think that venomous creatures were put on earth to do evil things to human beings <P>

Homo sapiens is a heck of a lot more "lethal" to Phoneutria than it ever will be to us


----------



## Crotalus

blacktara said:
			
		

> What about other related species - other Phoneutria species and other wanderers/Ctenids from the New World tropics. I believe that there are lots of different varieties of these spiders native to various rain forest regions. Could it be like with the funnel webs where the Atrax gets the notoriety but there are others like Formidibalis out there that are potentially more dangerous but where there just arent enough contacts with humans to have buildt up a reputation?


So far its only Phoneutria among ctenids that have a potent venom. No other genus have that as far as tests shows.



			
				blacktara said:
			
		

> Are some of these non-dangerous to humans? Or is the bite of any Ctenid/wanderer likely to be dangerous or maybe just nasty due to the size of the spider, potential infection, etc etc?


All except P. are non-dangerous of something around 40 genus. No its the specific neurotoxin in P. that makes them dangerous, the other genus lacks this component in the venom.



			
				blacktara said:
			
		

> I'd still love to see a video of one of these guys running full speed or attacking something. The video that adnan posted of his spider swaying back and forth as it contemplates his hand is neat - but the spider never makes an attempt to attack (or to retreat for that matter)


Watch out for a show on National Geographics later this february, one of my nigriventer will be on there. Dont know what they have in the show, some might be edited out but it made a few rushes. 



			
				blacktara said:
			
		

> And also would like a documented account of the results of a bite.


Quote from C. Lipari:
"A friend of mine was bitten by P.nigriventer,collecting spiders in Missions , a province of the north of our country, the result was a coma state that
it last 3 days, no sequel is after the accident, only the fall of all the nails of the hand and feet fingers ,it happened several months after the bitten."



			
				blacktara said:
			
		

> I hope these questions arent tedious - just trying to learn something and seperate fact from rumor, myth, and outright fiction
> 
> Crotalus - any thoughts on the authenticity of the pic of the spider on in the guy's hand a little ways up this thread?


Not tedious at all, I find the subject interesting. 

Not impossible its real. some people are just plain stupid.
He could very easily end up with the spider in his face

/Lelle


----------



## blacktara

*Cool*

What's the name of the Geographic special and when is it supposed to air?


----------



## Crotalus

blacktara said:
			
		

> What's the name of the Geographic special and when is it supposed to air?


"Insects from Hell" (!) but I dont have the definitly date when its supposed to be aired. I have to get back on that.

/Lelle


----------



## Adnan

When it will be on air here in Brazil?  

Only god knows...


----------



## Adnan

Some new pictures.

One spider of the first eggsac.







And 5 of the second (only 4 visible).


----------



## Crotalus

No cannibalistic tendencies yet?

/Lelle


----------



## Adnan

Not yet... I will separate them in next molt.


----------



## jeroen

Steven said:
			
		

> the site you're getting those pictures from is Dutch,... quite sure the guy holding the spider and the spider in the grass are not from around my region


Ah, that's my site...I put the picture there because the host were it orriginated from was slow as heck. Sorry for the confusion. As much as I like phoneutria's, I woulnd't want one in my home. 

The caption was in Brazilian but it mentioned something that the person holding the phoneutria was a trained pro....whatever that means in this case. 
It's real btw.


----------



## Adnan

Back to the ugly guys!  

New molt!


----------



## Crotalus

Crotalus said:
			
		

> "Insects from Hell" (!) but I dont have the definitly date when its supposed to be aired. I have to get back on that.


http://www.nationalgeographic.co.uk/watch/ProgramDetails.asp?UniId=1290

/Lelle


----------



## Steven

Crotalus said:
			
		

> http://www.nationalgeographic.co.uk/watch/ProgramDetails.asp?UniId=1290
> 
> /Lelle


That's NG Europe right ?

very curious  :} 



did they filmed anything else then your Nigriventer ?


----------



## Crotalus

Steven said:
			
		

> That's NG Europe right ?
> 
> very curious  :}
> 
> did they filmed anything else then your Nigriventer ?


Yeah UK airtimes

Not really, just the P.nigriventer, some shots on a rattler but i might think they edit it out

/Lelle


----------



## blacktara

*Well darn*

I searched for that program on the US National Geographic website and it seems they dont have that "Insects from Hell" series running here in the states<P>

And shame on the boys at NG for calling spiders and scorpions insects


----------



## Crotalus

blacktara said:
			
		

> And shame on the boys at NG for calling spiders and scorpions insects


Im sure they know they are not insects. Calling it "Invertebrats from Hell" might not get the publics attention as much.

/Lelle


----------



## danread

Hi Lelle,

i watched the program last night, it was actually very good! Your Phoenutra featured a fair amount in it. Is the setup they filmed it in the one you keep in in normally? 

Cheers,


----------



## Crotalus

Great to hear it came out ok. No i made that esp for that filming
Im still waiting for my dvd copy here....

/Lelle


----------



## blacktara

*Insects from hell*

Hey, if/when you get a dvd copy, might I be able to get a copy from you somehow?


----------



## Crotalus

blacktara said:
			
		

> Hey, if/when you get a dvd copy, might I be able to get a copy from you somehow?


If I found a way to copy a dvd yes.

/Lelle


----------



## Adnan

~4 cm now... :}


----------



## Haplopelmatic

More, more!   :drool:  :drool:  :drool:


----------



## SebastianH

Hi,



			
				Adnan said:
			
		

> ~4 cm now... :}


what does that mean? Bodylength or legwidth?
Greetings,
Sebastian


----------



## Adnan

Sorry! Legwidth!


----------



## Adnan

More pics later. They become nasty teenagers...


----------



## Adnan

Late update! Molt nº 7.







Some enclosures.


----------



## Adnan

And molt nº 8.


----------



## Spider-man 2

Fast growers I see...

8 molts is 5 months! Sheesh!


----------



## Steven

:clap:  :clap:  :clap: 

nice !!! keep them coming


----------



## Adnan

Spider-man 2 said:
			
		

> Fast growers I see...
> 
> 8 molts is 5 months! Sheesh!


Yes!! Superfast! But they have a short life span... only about 4/5 years.


----------



## Adnan

New pic:


----------



## Adnan

One more... sooo cute!!


----------



## Steven

very cute !   :drool: 


guess you're gonna get some 
"  "-replies to this picture


----------



## Adnan

I dont care!


----------



## blacktara

*Okay that pic*

Looks real. If it is, you've got some cojones


----------



## Crotalus

Adnan said:
			
		

> Yes!! Superfast! But they have a short life span... only about 4/5 years.


Not even that, my last female recently died after around 3 years.

/Lelle


----------



## danread

Hi Lelle,

Is it Phoneutria sp. that European hobbists have had problems with getting the spiderlings to survive?  Do you know if any have been captive bred or captive born in Europe succesfully?

Cheers,


----------



## Adnan

Little bastard from the 2nd eggsac!    







A few minutes later, eating a cricket.


----------



## Crotalus

Not only europeans, even Butantan in Brazil. But I know if a few successfully slings that been raised from my sacks, and also a few from other sacks in Germany. Its not impossible, but its pure luck.

/Lelle


----------



## Adnan

...so I´m a very luck guy... :}


----------



## danread

Crotalus said:
			
		

> Not only europeans, even Butantan in Brazil. But I know if a few successfully slings that been raised from my sacks, and also a few from other sacks in Germany. Its not impossible, but its pure luck.
> 
> /Lelle



What do you think the problem is? Do they have precise humidity or temperature requirements? Maybe something in their diet?  :?


----------



## Adnan

I dont know why they die in Butantan... I have 2 friends here in São Paulo with no problems to rise spiderlings... :?


----------



## Crotalus

Strange since there are no differencies in how you keep them. Oh well hopefully Im getting hold of some more later on and try again.

Dan, here they worked fine until 3rd molt or so. After that they all died instantly. Same for lots of people and I dont know why. I laborated with humidity but still the same result. I do believe its more a fluke to keep them alive then not, I encountered the same problem with a New Guinea sparrasid slings once. They were impossible to raise no matter what.

/Lelle


----------



## Cpt.nemO

I must say man youve got the guts adnan :clap: .  I wouldn't breed this species for nothing man.


----------



## Adnan

Another angry one!


----------



## Adnan

And a dead one...


----------



## becca81

What's the max leg span for this species?  I've seen pictures of what I assume are adults.  Do they bulk up some?


----------



## Crotalus

Around 12-14cm legspan. Bulk up like a blondi no. 

/Lelle


----------



## blacktara

*Nice pics*

Seems your teenagers are copping some serious attitude.

Holding the cup like that, dont you worry that he could decide to go after your thumb?


----------



## Adnan

No... they just run and hide in few seconds. Maybe is only a instinctive act... in spiders of this size, of couse. The large ones are far more serious in that attitude.


----------



## shogun804

Adnan said:
			
		

> One more... sooo cute!!


wow that is an awsome pic, those spiders look fierce


----------



## blacktara

*Whats the latest?*

How are your teenagers doing?


----------



## Adnan

Very, very well! More pics soon!!


----------



## Adnan

New enclosures...


----------



## Adnan

Molt nº 9.


----------



## Aviculariinae

Hi,
Very Very beautiful pictures adnan,you are having good success with raring this species. Can i ask what the dimensions are of your enclosures are.
Just curious i thought this species was more terrestrial but you have it setup to be more arboreal???


----------



## Adnan

Thanks, Brendan!

The enclosures are quite small, with 17x17x30 cm.

Well, I´ve found 5 P. nigriventer in the wild (allways without a cam  ) and all of then was in high places:

A - One mature female hiding in a banana three (at day).

B - One mature female standing in a banana three (at night).

C - One mature male wandering in a wall (at night).

D - One juv. female in a roof structure, where i found some cast skins (at night). 

E - One mature female hiding in bark crevices, in a three close to a banana plantation (at day).

And all of my P. nigriventer appears to prefer to stand and hide in cork bark than in the substrate... so, I make it arboreal. 

Cheers!


----------



## Steven

> New enclosures...


WOW,... nice !!!  :clap:


----------



## Adnan

Thanks, Steven!


----------



## N.W.A.

That is a very cool movie and teaches me alot about what not to do with spiders.


----------



## stonemantis

Adnan said:
			
		

> Wow!! Time to count!


The slings go marching one by one hoorah! hoorah!


----------



## Adnan

A few pics...


----------



## Arachnomaniak

Awww, such cute babies!
I'm not sure what the term would be for have a couple hundred pairs of identical twins but you got them 
Doen't it feel great to be the Godfather of so many babies!


----------



## Adnan

Yes, but they are not babies anymore!


----------



## NewGriot

*My lil killer...*

Molted again...

Phoneutria spec. Ecuador


----------



## Adnan

Hi! Nice spider! Looks very Like P. nigriventer...


----------



## NewGriot

*Sexing?*

Hey Adnan

Could you tell me the difference between males and females?
Are the male`s palps bigger than the females?

I will try to sexing my 2 animals...
But they are not adult right now, body lenght arround 2.5 cm...

Do you think is possible to find that out now?


----------



## Stefan2209

Hi,

I´m not Adnan, but perhaps i might try to help out on this one.

As with other ctenid hunting spiders you should be able to see slightly bigger palps on the male. From the looks on your fotos, it might be worth a try.
If you can´t see any difference at all, try again after the next molt.

It´d be helping to know which molt they are in right now. Further, are there any other differences between the two spiders you have noticed?
From the Phoneutria pairs I´ve seen there has been no difference in coloration but in body-proportions. The females had a more bulkier body than the males. The males instead had a much greater legspan than the females. In the fera-species I´ve seen the males had a legspan near 20 cm, talkin ´bout a big spider.

Greetings,

Stefan


----------



## Pokie1

Awesome thread and pics! I gotta wonder what kind of camera/lenses you use to photograph these bad boys.  Sticking the ole kodak next to the spider seems less than prudent with this species. I was thinking of getting a macro lense for my SLR (should I ever get into the "real spiders.")  I was thinking something in the 100 mm F2.8 with min foc dist @ 12" for Canon EOS... Will that be enough?  

Anyway, thanks again for the pics

Pokie1


----------



## CedrikG

totally awesome picture, nice evolution thx for sharing these nice picture, this genus interessed me for a long time, totaly stunning spider, continu your good work!!


----------



## Adnan

NewGriot said:
			
		

> Hey Adnan
> 
> Could you tell me the difference between males and females?
> Are the male`s palps bigger than the females?
> 
> I will try to sexing my 2 animals...
> But they are not adult right now, body lenght arround 2.5 cm...
> 
> Do you think is possible to find that out now?


Soon I will post some pics of the males and females! I´m just waiting for some molts...


----------



## Adnan

Pokie1 said:
			
		

> Awesome thread and pics! I gotta wonder what kind of camera/lenses you use to photograph these bad boys.  Sticking the ole kodak next to the spider seems less than prudent with this species. I was thinking of getting a macro lense for my SLR (should I ever get into the "real spiders.")  I was thinking something in the 100 mm F2.8 with min foc dist @ 12" for Canon EOS... Will that be enough?
> 
> Anyway, thanks again for the pics
> 
> Pokie1


Thanks, Pokie1!!

I have now a Canon EOS 350D and its very good to take some pictures... even with the kit lens!


----------



## Adnan

Kirdec said:
			
		

> totally awesome picture, nice evolution thx for sharing these nice picture, this genus interessed me for a long time, totaly stunning spider, continu your good work!!


Very thanks, Kirdec!!


----------



## Adnan

A freshly molted one... they are getting big!


----------



## smokejuan

Keep the pics coming when you can. I just stumbled on to this thread and normally would not be interested in a poisoneous ( true) spider but this critter has gotten my attention. I never look at a bunch of bananas the same ever again   I like the pics and the info on this. Very interesting. It is also interesting how it seems you are living near they're habitat with good success in rearing them yet others try to mimec that and have little to no success. Either you know something others do not or must be something in the air or water:? Or lack of in the air or water


----------



## Adnan

smokejuan said:
			
		

> Keep the pics coming when you can. I just stumbled on to this thread and normally would not be interested in a poisoneous ( true) spider but this critter has gotten my attention.


Thanks!



> I never look at a bunch of bananas the same ever again


   



> I like the pics and the info on this. Very interesting. It is also interesting how it seems you are living near they're habitat with good success in rearing them yet others try to mimec that and have little to no success. Either you know something others do not or must be something in the air or water:? Or lack of in the air or water


I just dont know... I just keep then... and they grow! :?


----------



## CedrikG

how much you got right now ?


----------



## Adnan

Now I have 3 from the first eggsac and 3 from the second...


----------



## Adnan

Actual size






Walking around






Bad, bad spider!






Eyes...


----------



## smokejuan

Actually, they are quite handsome spider.  Nice pics! Thanks for the time and effort on this for the rest of us to enjoy. This is a good thread to keep for future refference! :clap: 

Kevin


----------



## Venom

Sooooooo....._when_  are we getting these in the USA ?


Aggg...lovely spider!


----------



## ink_scorpion

Adnan said:
			
		

> Wow!! Time to count!


Better kick off your shoes and socks!


----------



## Adnan

smokejuan said:
			
		

> Actually, they are quite handsome spider.  Nice pics! Thanks for the time and effort on this for the rest of us to enjoy. This is a good thread to keep for future refference! :clap:
> 
> Kevin


Thanks for the kind words!


----------



## Adnan

Venom said:
			
		

> Sooooooo....._when_  are we getting these in the USA ?
> 
> 
> Aggg...lovely spider!


Hehehe, I dont know... ;P


----------



## Adnan

Scorps_n_Ts said:
			
		

> Better kick off your shoes and socks!


----------



## Adnan

Feeding pics!


----------



## Adnan




----------



## Adnan




----------



## CedrikG

when its time to clean or fill water dish, is it a mess to work with these little guy ?


----------



## Stefan2209

Feeding...

This brings an interesting question on my mind:

What have you fed this fellas during their growth period? Did you ever feed them with other spiders?

Thanks in advance for your kind reply.

Stefan


----------



## Adnan

> What have you fed this fellas during their growth period?


Crickets, roaches and worms!


> Did you ever feed them with other spiders?


Never...


----------



## Stefan2209

Damn! What a pitty....

But thanks anyway for your reply 

Stefan


----------



## Jmadson13

wow. Fantastic catalogue of the growth of these lil buggers bravo :clap:


----------



## Adnan

Thanks brigebane!!


----------



## Adnan

Kirdec said:
			
		

> when its time to clean or fill water dish, is it a mess to work with these little guy ?


Its a mess in small enclosures! :wall:


----------



## Adnan

New feeding pic...


----------



## blacktara

*Insects from hell*

An episode called Webs and Fangs Episode 2 will air in the US June 30 at 630PM on National Geographic Channel? Is this the episode with your spider ?


----------



## Crotalus

Its one of my nigriventer in that episode.

/Lelle


----------



## Adnan

New molt...


----------



## Adnan

The bigger one:


----------



## Venom

hehe....I see that your hand is _behind _ the glass, and not directly touching the spider   They do grow quickly don't they?


----------



## Adnan

> hehe....I see that your hand is behind the glass


Yep! Only for size reference!  



> They do grow quickly don't they?


For sure! Super fast! But no males here yet...  
And a friend of mine have 5 spider of same eggsag and only one matured male... I will post a pic of him later...


----------



## Adnan

Here is the male:


----------



## Adnan

And here is a pic of the smaller one from the firs eggsac:


----------



## Stefan2209

My female which unfortunately died recently. Original swedish bred (thanks, Lelle!). Would just have loved to mate her with that freaky male...


----------



## aftershock

Really nice pictures by the way!!!


----------



## Billdolfski

Very interesting post.  Even more impressive that you successfully breed them.  Nice pics and keep up the good work.

BTW, since you're local to these guys... can you obtain some antivenin and keep it around for "unfortunate" occasions?  Or do you really just get to be that careful?


----------



## Adnan

Thanks!



> can you obtain some antivenin and keep it around for "unfortunate" occasions?


If I need help, the best way is the Butantan Institute. But in most situations, painkillers do the job...


----------



## Black Hawk

dang! nice spider adnan! they sure are growing up


----------



## Adnan

Stefan2209 said:
			
		

> Would just have loved to mate her with that freaky male...


My friend told me that the male has been killed... after 3 consecutive nights with 3 different females.  

Well... 3 nights with 3 females... lucky freaky guy! Sometimes they are
killed just after they enter in the female enclosure...


----------



## Stefan2209

*Unbelievable*



			
				Adnan said:
			
		

> My friend told me that the male has been killed... after 3 consecutive nights with 3 different females.
> 
> Well... 3 nights with 3 females... lucky freaky guy! Sometimes they are
> killed just after they enter in the female enclosure...



Bad luck with that male!

But anyway, if he has done his job successfully on 3 females i guess it´s ok.
It´s the first nigriventer male i ever hear of who has survived a mating....

What do you mean with "painkillers usually get the job done", are you refering to the statistics or did you get tagged and find it out on your own?

Greetings,

Stefan


----------



## Adnan

> It´s the first nigriventer male i ever hear of who has survived a mating....


Me too... my first attempt results in a dead male, but in a gravid female as well. Hope my friend get same lucky with the 3 females.



> What do you mean with "painkillers usually get the job done", are you refering to the statistics or did you get tagged and find it out on your own?


Statistics! Yet...


----------



## Adnan

Some new pics...

One big "baby" from the first eggsac







And a large wc female... (somewhat different from the others that I have seen).


----------



## Adnan

Well... here we go again!


----------



## Adnan

The Mom


----------



## Crotalus

Adnan said:
			
		

> And a large wc female... (somewhat different from the others that I have seen).


Looks similar to this one













/Lelle


----------



## Stefan2209

*Finally got a male*

Took me quite some time to find one, but finally here he is   

Now i´m waiting for his bride to arrive....


----------



## Adnan

Nice guy, Stefan!


----------



## aftershock

Amazingly beautiful.


----------



## Adnan

Crotalus said:
			
		

> Looks similar to this one
> 
> /Lelle


Yes, maybe they look like P. "keyserlingi".


----------



## Adnan

One more pic from the new Mom


----------



## Stefan2209

*Thanks!*



			
				Adnan said:
			
		

> Nice guy, Stefan!


Hi Adnan,

thanks for the kind words, but i have to admit, they belong to Lelle, as it´s (again) one of his bred....

Greetings,

Stefan


----------



## Adnan

Well, Lelle is a nice guy too.


----------



## Stefan2209

*Of course!*



			
				Adnan said:
			
		

> Well, Lelle is a nice guy too.


That´s not the only point about him: he knows how to breed some really nice looking and well-behaved Phoneutrias, that´s for sure!

By the way, congratulations to your new sack! Let the babies come again!

Greetings,

Stefan


----------



## Adnan

> By the way, congratulations to your new sack! Let the babies come again!


Thanks! 

Hope I´ll see it again soon: Link


----------



## Crotalus

Stefan2209 said:
			
		

> Hi Adnan,
> 
> thanks for the kind words, but i have to admit, they belong to Lelle, as it´s (again) one of his bred....
> 
> Greetings,
> 
> Stefan


Great to see that some made it 
Good luck on the breeding!

/Lelle


----------



## blacktara

Stefan2209 said:
			
		

> That´s not the only point about him: he knows how to breed some really nice looking and well-behaved Phoneutrias, that´s for sure!
> 
> By the way, congratulations to your new sack! Let the babies come again!
> 
> Greetings,
> 
> Stefan


well behaved Phoneutrias? That's kind of an oxymoron isnt it?


----------



## Stefan2209

*Not quite...*



			
				blacktara said:
			
		

> well behaved Phoneutrias? That's kind of an oxymoron isnt it?


Depends of your point of view: as i´ve kept several Phoneutria specimen some years ago i can compare their behaviour to the other specimen i´ve kept. 

Back in the late 90´s i got a P. fera wc-female which was my first adult ever of this genus. As this was the Phoneutria which "got me into P.´s" every other spider of this genus i get is matched against that first female. 

When i compare the nigriventers i got recently against that fera-female, well, the nigriventers are just calm and cosy like my chilean rose-hair T. Which of course doesn´t mean they can´t get aggressive!

I don´t take this for a species-thing, i just think captive-bred or at least captive-raised are much more adapted to human-surroundings. As i´m expecting a nigriventer wc-female next week, i´m really excited to see how she will behave in comparison to the two cb-specimen i had.

Would be very interested in experiences of the other Phoneutria-keeper here. Have you witnessed similarities to this?

Greetings,

Stefan


----------



## Crotalus

They come in different "personalities"  - some are more aggressive and skittish then others. And alot depends on day to day mood it seems.
Captive raised are for sure a bit more layed back then adult WC, I raised a number of juveniles and all of them seemed less aggressive then the most WC adult female. But theres just no way I would relax anyway no mattar how layed back they seems to be, they all got potential and in a blink of en eye  they can be long gone 

/Lelle


----------



## blacktara

*A request*

How about a video of one of you guys doing some enclosure maintainence

I mean, I'm picturing someone wearing a HAZMAT outfit ;P


----------



## blacktara

*An a silly question*

that's partly in fun but partly not

What is the correct pleural form of Phoneutria?

Phoneutrias? Phoneutria? Phonuetriae? Phoneetria?

And what's a bunch of them called? A flock? A herd? A gaggle? A problem?

I hope y'all understand. These spiders are fascinating and this thread has been most informative. I'm having a little fun

Robert


----------



## Crotalus

One Phoneutria , many Phoneutria. You never add "s" after a genus name.
A bunch is called "lucky" 

/Lelle


----------



## Adnan

Crotalus said:
			
		

> Captive raised are for sure a bit more layed back then adult WC, I raised a number of juveniles and all of them seemed less aggressive then the most WC adult female.


My CB specimens, even the youngers, have more attitude than the adult WC ones. The WC ones are far more recluse, only appears at night and go hide when disturbed. So almost no warning displays. The CB ones wander at daylight and dont care about human-surroundings. They show the warning display with almost no reason...


----------



## Stefan2209

*Interesting!*

Hey guys,

thanks for your replies!

I take this for really interesting, as i came to some different experiences:

the wc-fera female i had was of all P.´s i´ve kept so far the most aggressive ever. On one ocassion she was already pissed off by me just entering the room where her enclosure was in. She made several jumps against the door of the tank and stayed in thread-mode for something like 15 minutes. 
On several other times she went in thread-display just because i was watching her. Maintanence on that one was, well, to say the least quite interesting.... Used to give her a cricket before i did cleaning or what else needed to be done. When she was feeding she used to be quite occupied with it and was harder to disturb.

Kept several juvi and spiderling specimen of nigriventer and keyserlingii (remember, this was in the lare 90´s) too. The smaller specimen had generally been much more calm than the adult female. When they went to thread-display it seemed more than a show-off to me than a real aggressive behaviour. As soon as i gave the glass of the tank a subtle knock they´d run and hide, the adult one just used to attack when i did this with her.

Compared to other ctenids i found this strange "show-off" behaviour once again with the real calm and harmless Cupiennius spec. While adult specimen are really cosy spiders, i saw it once with a male C. coccineus juvi. The lil fella went in full Phoneutria-style thread-mode when i filled up his water-dish. I was quite startled at first sight as i had never seen this before on a Cupiennius. Have to admit that i was not too impressed, rather embarrassed about that attitude. Gave him a little touch with the tip of my index finger at his fore-legs and he just ran and hide. Guess with some juvi-spiders it´s quite similar to human-kids sometimes they just have to test how far they can go...   

@Blacktara:

Sorry, but i think a video of a standard-maintanence procedure would be a big let-down for you. What do think what security-measures are needed to work with these spiders?

In my opinion just some experiences with other spiders, preferably hunting-spiders, and some common-sense. That´s it. There are no special Phoneutria-proof suits to wear, there are no special courses to attend "how to keep P.´s" and there´s no ampoule of antivenin ready to shoot next to the tank. Whenever i have to do something inside the enclosure i just watch the spider for some minutes and if it seems just calm i do what i have to. Do it quick and do it careful. If the spider seems agitated do it later.
I´m not really afraid to get tagged though, my bigger concern is just the spider making a run for it and escapes. Come to the name Phoneutria there´s often talk bout the aggression this spiders can show. What is really underpronounced in my opinion is that even the bad-ass Phoneutria is most of the time quite peaceful and calm, as you long as you leave them be. 

Greetings,

Stefan


----------



## jeroen

Are you prepared for the worst case scenario (ie: in case you do get tagged badly?). 

I think Phoneutria are amazing creatures, they demand respect and look awesome. I'm not sure if I ever want to keep one, just because there's always that very slight risc something goes wrong, and I wouldn't know what to do. I use to have some jumpy T's (pookeys, OBT, etc) and while I've never been tagged by those (I didn't handle them), I had my Ornata escape on me twice (once litterally on me, the second time she somehow managed to exit the enclosure...I think she teleported out of there  I found her resting comfortably on my wall).


----------



## blacktara

*Stefan*

My comment about the HAZMAT outfit was of course in jest - but here's why I'm curious

You yourself in the space of one post say - "Whenever i have to do something inside the enclosure i just watch the spider for some minutes and if it seems just calm i do what i have to. Do it quick and do it careful." 

But that's not long after you comment about your wild child Fera that  "Maintanence on that one was, well, to say the least quite interesting...."

In other words, the problem was that you couldnt watch and see if it was calm because apparently it hardly ever was.  I'm curious. I still havent seen the National Geographic episode with Lelle's spiders

What Im really curious about is the speed of these spiders. I have heard it described, but seeing beats any description. Having my first T, I will now have something to gauge it against

The T I have is A brockelhursti - if someone asked me to describe its speed, I'd say it's modestly quick when it wants to be, which isnt often. So I wanna see what supersonic is in comparison to what I have seen in my T


----------



## Adnan

jeroen said:
			
		

> Are you prepared for the worst case scenario (ie: in case you do get tagged badly?)


Yes! The Butantan Institute is about 30 minutes from my home!  



> I think Phoneutria are amazing creatures, they demand respect and look awesome. I'm not sure if I ever want to keep one, just because there's always that very slight risc something goes wrong, and I wouldn't know what to do. I use to have some jumpy T's (pookeys, OBT, etc) and while I've never been tagged by those (I didn't handle them), I had my Ornata escape on me twice (once litterally on me, the second time she somehow managed to exit the enclosure...I think she teleported out of there  I found her resting comfortably on my wall).


You are lucky! My juv. H. maculata male escaped and I never saw him again!


----------



## Adnan

Stefan2209 said:
			
		

> Compared to other ctenids i found this strange "show-off" behaviour once again with the real calm and harmless Cupiennius spec. While adult specimen are really cosy spiders, i saw it once with a male C. coccineus juvi. The lil fella went in full Phoneutria-style thread-mode when i filled up his water-dish. I was quite startled at first sight as i had never seen this before on a Cupiennius. Have to admit that i was not too impressed, rather embarrassed about that attitude. Gave him a little touch with the tip of my index finger at his fore-legs and he just ran and hide. Guess with some juvi-spiders it´s quite similar to human-kids sometimes they just have to test how far they can go...


----------



## Adnan

wOohOo said:
			
		

> hmm Adnan!!
> www = small place man!!
> 
> 
> I'm waiting for my Armadeiras (P. negriventer) spiderlings ehehehehehehee
> See ya!


Hi Higuti! Glad do see you here! 
Are you ready for Phoneutria?


----------



## Stefan2209

*Not far off...*



			
				blacktara said:
			
		

> My comment about the HAZMAT outfit was of course in jest - but here's why I'm curious
> 
> You yourself in the space of one post say - "Whenever i have to do something inside the enclosure i just watch the spider for some minutes and if it seems just calm i do what i have to. Do it quick and do it careful."
> 
> But that's not long after you comment about your wild child Fera that  "Maintanence on that one was, well, to say the least quite interesting...."
> 
> In other words, the problem was that you couldnt watch and see if it was calm because apparently it hardly ever was.  I'm curious. I still havent seen the National Geographic episode with Lelle's spiders
> 
> What Im really curious about is the speed of these spiders. I have heard it described, but seeing beats any description. Having my first T, I will now have something to gauge it against
> 
> The T I have is A brockelhursti - if someone asked me to describe its speed, I'd say it's modestly quick when it wants to be, which isnt often. So I wanna see what supersonic is in comparison to what I have seen in my T



Hi Robert,

for some south-american countries you may not be so far off the money with that HAZMAT outfit. A colleague whose origin is Argentinia told me once the workers in the banana-plantages use to wear some kind of bee-worker outfit as a protection against Phoneutria... Donno if this true, but an interesting anecdote nevertheless...

Even the highly-aggressive fera-female had it´s times when it was rather calm, you just couldn´t trust that as she was lightning-quick in changing her mood... Over the time i came up with some procedures that worked for her. Misting the tank was done through the ventilation-holes of her enclosure. When i wanted to insert a cricket into her tank i used to work with "masks", pieces of cardbox which i cutted to fit the door of her tank and only left open a small opening around an inch. Then i put a cricket into a small plastic-box and hold the box in front of the small opening. So the cricket could enter the tank but there was no way how the spider would have been able to get out. 
When i wanted to take something out of her tank (waterdish, prey-remainings), i used to feed her before that. When this spiders are eating they´re really occupied and very hard to disturb. In my experience they don´t care much what´s going on around them, as long as don´t get too near to them .

The speed of this spiders is their greatest risk in my opinion. You can watch them move all day and come to the conclusion "ok, they´re fast, but other spiders are too, so what". Most of the time they´re just slow, even when they´re hunting. That´s the real problem, they don´t show their maximum speed most of the time...
I kept the afformentioned fera for 6 months before she showed her real-speed to me for the first time. I came near to being afraid of her when i realízed she had just done several rounds in her tank without me even seeing moving... I just heard some noise and she sat at the opposite wall, i can´t even remember to have seen as much as a blurry movement, she just sat still at another location, talk about quick.

In my experience it´s quite rare that they move with that pervert-speed, but already the thought that they´re able to do it is discomforting when you have to open the tank...

Greets,

Stefan


----------



## Adnan

wOohOo said:
			
		

> hahhahahahahahaahaha of course man!!!!
> Let's rock!!!!!!!
> i'm waiting...... 50 ok?
> see ya!


50??? Do You mean 5, right?


----------



## Stefan2209

*Lookeyyy....*

Hey there,

have a look at this, finally i got a bride for my nigriventer male! Furthermore for the first time since long years i got a Phoneutria again that even behaves like a Phoneutria is expected to (well, ok, at least in my opinion....) ;P 

Pissed off from the beginning, just as i love them! More pics when she´s in her tank, for now she seems to prefer the cosyness of her transport-box...

If anybody here has a clue where she could originate from, i´d like to hear opinions, as i´ve never seen such bright-yellow leg-undersides with any Phoneutria.

Now enjoy....   :clap:


----------



## Adnan

I have seem some with some yellow... but not like your. 

Nice girl!! :clap:


----------



## Stefan2209

*Update*

After sitting in her transport-case for something about 4 hours, my new lady finally decided to get out and take a closer look at her new home...

Strange coloration indeed    , more pics soon...


----------



## Crotalus

Very nice Stefan!

Reminds me of this Phoneutria sp. (belonged to a friend of mine):
http://www.minaxtarantulas.net/galleri/bilder/phoneutria_frammifran2.jpg
Do you have any locality information on yours?

/Lelle


----------



## Stefan2209

Crotalus said:
			
		

> Very nice Stefan!
> 
> Reminds me of this Phoneutria sp. (belonged to a friend of mine):
> http://www.minaxtarantulas.net/galleri/bilder/phoneutria_frammifran2.jpg
> Do you have any locality information on yours?
> 
> /Lelle


Thanks Lelle!

I know that pic and thought about it, too.

I mailed the guy who sold me the spider, if he knew about the localitiy, but i haven´t got an anwer so far. 

Will keep you updated in case i´d get any locality infos on this one.

Greets,

Stefan


----------



## Stefan2209

Damn, Damn, Damn!

My so-called "adult" male nigriventer is just doing a molt again!

The palps are already out of the old skin, looks like he´s adult now and ok . Still stickin to the old skin with a few legs though, i hope he´ll make it.

How big does this spider still want to get ???

Confused greetings,

Stefan


----------



## Crotalus

Heres one of my adult male nigriventer compare to my index finger, approx 10cm legspan

/Lelle


----------



## CedrikG

Stefan2209 said:
			
		

> After sitting in her transport-case for something about 4 hours, my new lady finally decided to get out and take a closer look at her new home...
> 
> Strange coloration indeed    , more pics soon...



oh wow ... oh wowwww totally insane


----------



## Bungholio

Thank you guys for sharing the pics with us.
These are the best phoneutria pics I ever saw.

Are they any updates?


----------



## Stefan2209

*Update*



			
				Bungholio said:
			
		

> Thank you guys for sharing the pics with us.
> These are the best phoneutria pics I ever saw.
> 
> Are they any updates?


Thanks, i´m glad you like them, too.

Yes, there are indeed updates. Unfortunately bad ones: my male got stuck during the molt. I tried to save him with some kind of emergency-operation but he was so weak after i got him cut out of his old skin, he died one day after. A pitty   

He had grown quite big as you can see in the first pic. Now it´s time to say goodbye, what´d be better suited for this, as a pic from better days:


----------



## aftershock

Sad to hear that Stefan...


----------



## Stylopidae

I am looking for specimens of this spider preserved in alcohol. I'm kinda poor at the moment, so I can't pay too much for them but I'd be more than happy to pay for cheap shipping.

I'd even trade mealworms or superworms 

Any help is appreciated


----------



## Adnan

Huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuummmmmmmmmm...


----------



## Stefan2209

Ahh! Nice to them growing again!

Now get ´em going!

Regards,

Stefan


----------



## CedrikG

Stefan2209 said:
			
		

> After sitting in her transport-case for something about 4 hours, my new lady finally decided to get out and take a closer look at her new home...
> 
> Strange coloration indeed    , more pics soon...



wowwww very very nice, what an awesome tread, keep it up!


----------



## Bungholio

Thanks for sharing!
What a beautiful photo the first one!


----------



## bistrobob85

Wow, now thats truly a nice thread... My compliments, Adnan, for all the pics !!!! It's the first time i ever got to see that specie and i have to say that they really seem very interesting!!!! I just love their mad little faces and the FEEDING PICS with them eating roaches were GREAT!!!! You should make posters out of them...


----------



## Jmadson13

:drool: these are some of my favorite true spiders, love to see such a large thread dedicated to them


----------



## Stefan2209

wOohOo said:
			
		

> Hehehe GoT Phoneutria *fera* ???  ;P  ;P  ;P
> 
> []'s


Hi Stephen,

are you sure that´s P. fera??

How do you know? Where does it come from? What size is it?

Sorry for that bunch of questions, i have kept P. fera some years ago, the specimen came from french-guyane and looked quite different to yours. That doesn´t need to say much, but what i´m furthermore wondering about is that pattern on the abdomen of your spider... P. fera is known for having some kind of hering-bone pattern.

I´ve seen a Phoneutria spec, which looks quite similar to yours, but it´s not a fera.

Vice-versa all P. fera´s i´ve seen so far from different parts of south-america looked quite different to that one. Really strange.

Whatever the species is, nice Phoneutria!  :} 

Greetings,

Stefan


----------



## Adnan

This female is from the state of Rondonia. Another color variation of P. fera, maybe...


----------



## Adnan

P. nigriventer x P. fera


----------



## FOX

Adnan said:
			
		

> Hi, James!
> 
> For you, the common name is Banana Spider and Brazilian Wandering Spider.
> Here in Brazil, its "Armadeira"!


Just love those pics, I was getting quite absorbed by your little guys until i read they are BANANA spiders  
That made my blood run cold as My little lad found one about an inch & a half long in a bunch of fruit from the local supermarket here in England, it was taken away for id & was found to be the wondering spider-i've seen what these mean little gits can do  The supermarket gave me loads of freebies afterwards.

Still they are very very cute.


----------



## Stefan2209

*Interesting*



			
				Adnan said:
			
		

> This female is from the state of Rondonia. Another color variation of P. fera, maybe...



Hey guys,

sorry, for the late reply.

Thanks for the info on locality and especially for that comparison pic!

Yeah, guess you´re right on the money, may well be another colour-form of P. fera. I´m very interested in this topic lately, as there seems to be at least two different P. fera variants around, probably even more than two.

I´ve kept P. fera in the past, the specimen originated from french-guyane and looked very different to your specimens. Now i stumbled across some pics from even more different P. fera´s. Even more i found some report from brazil that dealt with the first time finding of another P. fera variant in Para, Brazil. Now i´m wondering how many "fera" there are around...

Even worse is the situation with the different Phoneutria specs originating from Ecuador. I´ve several pics of Phoneutria specs from Ecuador, Bolivia and Columbia each showing very different looking spiders. For sure they´re not P. boliviensis, which looks quite unique...

I stumbled about some statements from Pro´s (scientists) that it is well known there are some more species around in that countries that are yet to be described. Very interesting to me, but also very confusing.   

The situation gets furthermore complicated by pics that are "unconfirmed", which means, the author of the pics states, the spider shown shall be a Phoneutria xxx. Problem is, the shown spider differs so much from "confirmed" Phoneutria that it´s hard for me to believe, that that statement ist true...

I already mailed Butantan for help but they didn´t even reply, guess they have some other business at their hands, than to help out a "crazy german guy" with his "poisonous spider problems"   

Well, at least we´ll have enough to talk about in the future... I´d really like to see the whole genus revised again soon, but have to admit, i think that´s just wish-full thinking.

Greetings,

Stefan


----------



## Crotalus

Im sure the pattern varies alot on fera depending on locality, just as nigriventer can look very different  even within the same locality.

/Lelle


----------



## Crotalus

Stefan2209 said:
			
		

> Hey guys,
> 
> Well, at least we´ll have enough to talk about in the future... I´d really like to see the whole genus revised again soon, but have to admit, i think that´s just wish-full thinking.



It was fairly recently revised, and I dont see a need for another revision. Why do you think so?

/Lelle


----------



## Stefan2209

Crotalus said:
			
		

> It was fairly recently revised, and I dont see a need for another revision. Why do you think so?
> 
> /Lelle


Hi Lelle,

out of two reasons:

The fera-species found in Para obviously differs so much from the described species that the scientists got quite confused. Sounded like a lot more than just another colour-morph.

The species running around in Ecuador. Several scientists worldwide agree that there´s at least one species still to be described. From the pics i have, which can be indeed misleading, i wouldn´t be surprised to hear there´s more than one "new" species...

Greetings,

Stefan


----------



## Crotalus

Stefan2209 said:
			
		

> Hi Lelle,
> 
> out of two reasons:
> 
> The fera-species found in Para obviously differs so much from the described species that the scientists got quite confused. Sounded like a lot more than just another colour-morph.
> 
> The species running around in Ecuador. Several scientists worldwide agree that there´s at least one species still to be described. From the pics i have, which can be indeed misleading, i wouldn´t be surprised to hear there´s more than one "new" species...
> 
> Greetings,
> 
> Stefan


Previosly they believed a colorform of nigriventer was another species, P. keyserlingi. Color is not enough to  give it species status which the latest revision showed.
Same with the fera variations (if thats the case).

For the ecuadorian example, im sure that might be true but a genus revision isnt needed to include another species to a genus (acctually this goes for example no 1 aswell).

What I would like to see is a large well written article about Phoneutria with all the members of the genus represented and images of different localities etc.

/Lelle


----------



## Stefan2209

Crotalus said:
			
		

> Previosly they believed a colorform of nigriventer was another species, P. keyserlingi. Color is not enough to  give it species status which the latest revision showed.
> Same with the fera variations (if thats the case).
> 
> For the ecuadorian example, im sure that might be true but a genus revision isnt needed to include another species to a genus (acctually this goes for example no 1 aswell).
> 
> What I would like to see is a large well written article about Phoneutria with all the members of the genus represented and images of different localities etc.
> 
> /Lelle


Hey again,


Guess your right on the revision thing, nevertheless i´d like to see it done as in *my opinion* there are more questions opened than solved with the actual status.

Yeah, a nice article about the genus based on *recently done research* would really be highly appreaciated. But for that, wishfull thinking!

I had recently been very active again in screening for photos of Phoneutria specs from different countries, seems this is a never-ending topic. I´d really like to know, if there´s anybody out there who can tell the true story about solitary species and just colour-morphs. For me, i doubt it.

Enough with this, now to a more practical aspect of Phoneutria spiders. Seems the waterdish of my "lil wife" needed refilling, problem was, the spider apparently had a different opinion about that matter. Take a look for yourself...

Going out of my way? No way!






Note one of the last legs pressed against the backwall, ready to do a jump in no time...






Greetings,

Stefan


----------



## Stefan2209

*News....*

Hi all,

no words needed, i guess.... ;P 













   

Greetings,

Stefan


----------



## Steven

wow wow wow    


:drool: :drool: :drool: 


(yep,... no words needed,.. only drooling smilies  )


----------



## murinuz

Stefan2209 said:
			
		

> Hi all,
> 
> no words needed, i guess.... ;P
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Greetings,
> 
> Stefan




:clap: :clap: :clap: :drool:

mom with her sac...soooo beautifull


----------



## rm90

Beautiful! Beautiful! I`m just wondering, where would you keep like a thousand spiders, do you have like 500 jars sitting around your house? :O


----------



## Stefan2209

Ryan Maguire said:
			
		

> Beautiful! Beautiful! I`m just wondering, where would you keep like a thousand spiders, do you have like 500 jars sitting around your house? :O


Hi Ryan,

for now, that´s no problem, as the sac apparently dried out, so i´ve got zip from it.  

On a more positive sidenote: the dried out eggs have been quite big, even they were dried, which might be an indicator that they had been fertilized and developed to some stage before they died.
So i had quite some hope, that the "mother" had indeed been sucessfull mated and might build me a second sac...
This hope has proofed to be correct: my lady build me a second nice sac this week, nearly of the same size as the first. Now i´ve to take steps to give her some better conditions with this one, perhaps i´ve got more luck in the second attempt...

To compensate for my allready blooming "father-feelings" i got a present from switzerland, 5 P. nigriventer Slings, enjoy...    







Greetings,

Stefan


----------



## CedrikG

ohhhhhhhh my dog :worship: :worship: :worship:


----------



## Jmadson13

*They're growing up!*

Thanks to Stefan and other hobbiests on this thread I purchased some 6 P. nigriventer slings Three months ago and don't regret it! They've molted five times in my care and are already turning into little monsters.

Stefan- that's too bad about the eggsac but congratulations on the new slings and best of luck with the next breedings.
Jamison


----------



## Venom

Soooo...can we look forward to Phoneutria being in the US hobby soon?:}


----------



## prankster705

Hmmmm, they sure look nice those are wandering spiders right, look good but I certainly would be afraid of one. Cool criters though. Stefan I hope you will have more luck with the eggs next time.


----------



## Scolopendra55

Is there any way I can get some from somebody (preferably in the U.S.) either through sale or trade? Very nice pics all of you!! It's really cool to see the whole growth process!!


----------



## Stefan2209

prankster705 said:
			
		

> Stefan I hope you will have more luck with the eggs next time.


Thanks everybody!

Well, let´s see, how this one will turn out...  







Greetings,

Stefan


----------



## prankster705

It turned out beautiful.


----------



## Stefan2209

prankster705 said:
			
		

> It turned out beautiful.


Hi again,

yeah, indeed a sight to behold. Nevertheless, i have to admit, i don´t care too much if it´s beautiful, as long as it´s fertile.  

Till i´ll get proof on that matter, i´ll stick to my lil babies from switzerland. One of them molted this week, today was it´s first meal, enjoy:













Greetings,

Stefan


----------



## aftershock

Yeah well. you know there is a fosterhome for the babies up north..


----------



## Jmadson13

Stefan2209 said:
			
		

> Thanks everybody!
> 
> Well, let´s see, how this one will turn out...
> 
> 
> Greetings,
> 
> Stefan


Awesome news Stefan! Best of luck.

Jamison


----------



## Crotalus

Stefan2209 said:
			
		

> Thanks everybody!
> Well, let´s see, how this one will turn out...


Good luck Stefan!
I miss keeping those little maniacs! 

/Lelle


----------

