# hopefully not a hybrid.



## codykrr (Mar 3, 2010)

ok so i have a male and female B. albopilosum. Well the female looks like all the other B. albo's i have seen, but the male does not.

the male has a rather dark carapace and i havent seen any pictures of male curly hairs so i guess it could be normal.

what do you all think? and do you have any pics for comparison?

i ask because id like to breed these sooner or later and do not want to breed any alboXvagans.

here is the male


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## Exo (Mar 3, 2010)

That's gotta be a hybrid........sorry. 

BTW, Where did you get it?


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## jebbewocky (Mar 3, 2010)

Looks like a B.vagans x B.alpopilosum to me, for what that's worth, which is close to nil, lol.

And even if he is a hybrid, I think he's a keeper.


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## codykrr (Mar 3, 2010)

I got him from kelly swift last year i think..maybe 2 years ago. i dont think kelly made a hybrid intentionally but maybe it was hybrid before he got his specimen.

(assuming this is in fact an AlboXvagans)

anyone have a picture of a true B. albo male?


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## codykrr (Mar 3, 2010)

here is a picture of the female i have.(this was a fresh molt pic, but she looks the same still)

also fom kelly swift. around the ame time.


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## VESPidA (Mar 3, 2010)

how big is it?  i got a b. albo from kelly swift about a year ago too, and it's just about 3 inches now and really should be molting soon.  i can post a pic when he/she does just for comparison; it's a long-shot but depending on how big yours is, maybe they could be sacmates?


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## codykrr (Mar 3, 2010)

yeah they probably are. i got to looking and these are from last years batch he had.

mine is around 3.5 inches right now. so i wouldnt doubt these are indeed sac mates.

Is yours a male or female?


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## VESPidA (Mar 3, 2010)

not sure; i'm not great at ventral sexing and was just going to wait on the next molt and examine the exuvia.  let me see if i can pinch grab it and get a pic for you to eval.


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## codykrr (Mar 3, 2010)

alright. then can you get a carapce shot as well?


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## VESPidA (Mar 3, 2010)

oh geez... i'm sorry but i had vagans so much on my mind that that was the T i was thinking of when i read this thread.  i just realized that after taking some pics.

i did get a b. albo in that same order from kelly, but he/she was a bit smaller than the vagans (prob about 0.5 inches), and incidentally just molted 3 days ago (was around 2.5 inches prior).  as soon as he/she hardens up, i will get some pics and post them.

sorry for the confusion!  but i'm definitely curious as well


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## AllieCat (Mar 3, 2010)

My female albopilosum is a lot darker than yours and has white-ish 'long hairs'...yours definetly seem reddish... the carapace on mine is black as well, not reddish....:?


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## VESPidA (Mar 3, 2010)

ok well curiosity got the better of me, and i decided to get him/her out for a quick photoshoot and a rehouse at the same time.  i'm pretty conservative with feeding even my slings and i don't keep them any warmer than my other Ts (so around ~70 pretty consistently), so mine is probably a few molts behind yours.  are these good enough to sex?

ETA:  3 days post-molt, approx 2.5 inches (was 2-2.25 prior to molt, i overestimated a bit above), flash used on all pics.
purchased from kelly swift 5/31/09 at 0.25-0.5 inches.


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## jeff1962 (Mar 3, 2010)

codykrr said:


> here is a picture of the female i have.(this was a fresh molt pic, but she looks the same still)
> 
> also fom kelly swift. around the ame time.


 I have had 3 of these. Two I still have, the largest is a confirmed female and her carapace looks nothing like that. I have another I raised from a sling and its Carapace looks like neither the male in question or this female you are showing.Both are from Southern spider works. The third one I had was a male that matured and I sent to someone for breeding, the carapace on it also looked like neither of these and it was from a different source . The specimans I do have, and have had, look like all the other pictures I have seen that are supposed to be reprasenative of the breed. My female , who is well over 4 inches just molted last week and her carapace looked nothing like that even after a fresh molt. Frankly I have to wonder what exactly you both have, since they both came from the same source.


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## JC (Mar 3, 2010)

codykrr, neither your male or female look like B.albopilosum to me. They have too much red in all the wrong places.

Here is a picture of my 4.8-inch female:


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## GoTerps (Mar 3, 2010)

Exo said:


> That's gotta be a hybrid........sorry.


Why?

I have no interest in guessing the background of that spider, but what makes it a hybrid from that picture?

The coloration of the carapace?  I don't buy that at all.  A darker carapace=hybrid with _B. vagans_?  Then This one must have stumbled upon a _B. vagans_ in Costa Rica!!

Eric


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## sharpfang (Mar 3, 2010)

*Wow! Hokie*

I hope if I get Off-Spring, that Mine look  like Yours!
I hear they Vary - Tremendously - Jason


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## jeff1962 (Mar 3, 2010)

Maybe this will help. http://www.brachypelmas.co.uk/just brachypelma/carapace.htm


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## JC (Mar 3, 2010)

sharpfang said:


> I hope if I get Off-Spring, that Mine look  like Yours!
> I hear they Vary - Tremendously - Jason


Jason, is that MM... a B.vagans?


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## JC (Mar 3, 2010)

jeff1962 said:


> Maybe this will help. http://www.brachypelmas.co.uk/just brachypelma/carapace.htm



They don't have B.vagans?


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## VESPidA (Mar 3, 2010)

haha thanks!  i'm kinda sad about the pics... the spider is much more impressive to me than i am able to capture.  they always look so beautiful and shiny fresh after a molt.

your breeding pair is just gorgeous... i never realized how red the males of this species could get. <--- oh i just assumed that was a mature albo, not a vagans :/ 

can anyone help with the sex of mine?


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## GoTerps (Mar 3, 2010)

These colors can sometimes change dramatically over the lifespan of the spider, between individuals, and during the molt cycle.


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## jeff1962 (Mar 3, 2010)

JC said:


> They don't have B.vagans?


http://www.brachypelmas.co.uk/just brachypelma/gallery/vagans.htm


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## JC (Mar 3, 2010)

HokiePokie727 said:


> your breeding pair is just gorgeous... i never realized how red the males of this species could get. <--- oh i just assumed that was a mature albo, not a vagans :/


No, the male in that pic is a B.vagans. That's really not a good idea Jason, it eventually leads to threads like these.


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## xhexdx (Mar 3, 2010)

Well, if he has any vagans or albo for sale, don't buy them.

That's a crappy thing to do, sharpfang.


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## jeff1962 (Mar 3, 2010)

xhexdx said:


> Well, if he has any vagans or albo for sale, don't buy them.
> 
> That's a crappy thing to do, sharpfang.


 Agreed, very bad for the hobby.


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## xhexdx (Mar 3, 2010)

Here's a mature male and mature female, for comparison:

Female:







Male:


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## VESPidA (Mar 3, 2010)

hmm.... i wonder if anyone else has noticed this and contacted kelly.  were you planning to do that, cody?  i think mine is too immature yet to tell (unless others feel otherwise), but i know that i won't be breeding him/her so aside from the obvious ethical issues, i'm not too bothered by it.  he seems like a reputable breeder that wouldn't do this intentionally...?


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## codykrr (Mar 3, 2010)

not judging you sharpfang...your buisness, but if people wouldnt hybridize these two sp. then i wouldnt have to wonder what mine are...

Eric, that curly hair you linked was gorgeous! do you know if that color form is in the hobby?

and im not sure what i have.

does anyone know of a link to some hybrid pics?  or any idea on what i have?


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## xhexdx (Mar 3, 2010)

GoTerps said:


> A darker carapace=hybrid with _B. vagans_?


I was under the impression that the opposite was more indicitive of a hybrid (lighter carapace = hybrid).

Either way, I wouldn't really be able to give an educated answer as to whether cody's spiders are hybrids or not, but (to me) the carapace color does look off from what I understand B. albopilosum to look like.


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## codykrr (Mar 3, 2010)

ok so here is another shot of both the male and female in question.

female






male


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## xhexdx (Mar 3, 2010)

It's hard to say, cody.

Bottom line though, if it were me, is that if I wasn't confident in whether they are hybrids or not, I wouldn't breed them.

I will say they are both beautiful spiders.


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## codykrr (Mar 3, 2010)

i have to agree with Joe, that's why i made this thread.

i was browsing some pictures today and i didn't see any that really looked like either of the two i have.

the male seems to have a much darker almost striped carapace with pinkish outside.

while the female has a pinkish bronze carapace with a more of a red outside.


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## xhexdx (Mar 3, 2010)

codykrr said:


> i have to agree with Joe


First time for everything, huh? :}


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## sharpfang (Mar 3, 2010)

*Wow! I am Not gonna get Into Another argument*

With the "Know-it-All". It has been done more than once in Captivity......And occurs "Naturally" in the Wild, Occasionally. 
Not 2 mention, that, these Species are getting hard 2 GIVE AWAY @ 
this point. This girl does Not seem 2 B taking, Her sister does seem *Gravid* though...My "plan", was Not 2 "Disguise" them in dispursement of Babies - IF ANY even  MM was Older & FREE. More than one seller on AB
did Not come through w/ the Curly hair MM's I ordered.....and then BOTH girls Molted...So I tried it - Crucify me if ya Like  

I am a little concerned however - If I give them AWAY, even w/ "Paper-work"
That Hobbyists, could on purpose, or on ACCIDENT.....Trade or sell or give them Away later 2 others, that would Not know...Now that, would B "Crappy"!

2 Re-Iterate......this *pairing* in the Wild, sometimes occurs NATURALLY.

Furthermore, It has been brought 2 my attn: that the Male pictured, Is actually, a "Hybrid" himself......Supporting some of the Concerns currently.
{Members who have Collected apparently, Many 100's of the T's in the Wild}

I don't See others getting fingered in this thread, for their purchasing and/or
Owning "Albogans", So I'll consider the Sources.....Except 4 One 

-Jason


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## codykrr (Mar 3, 2010)

yeah kind like when YOU mispelt something last night!



xhexdx said:


> You said (in your first post) that you ordered slings, then had the mail sent along with it.


;P

i will email kelly, but on his web site unless thats a different T the picture of the curly hair he has looks right to me. but that could be someone elses spider picture.

i wont breed these untill i get a verification from kelly.

(and NO Kelly is an honest guy if h did breed hybrids it was a total mistake i can assure you.)


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## xhexdx (Mar 3, 2010)

I never claimed to know it all.  In fact, I even admitted I didn't know if cody's spiders were hybrid or not.

Now to address the rest of your post:



sharpfang said:


> And occurs "Naturally" in the Wild, Occasionally.
> 
> My "plan", was Not 2 "Disguise" them in dispursement of Babies -
> 
> ...


Could you please cite your sources for this claim?

But your plan did include sending the offspring away, did it not?

If you were concerned about this, why breed them at all?  There is *nothing* good about creating hybrids in this hobby, period.

Cody, that was a good catch, considering my post wasn't even there for 30 seconds before I caught and fixed it.


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## xhexdx (Mar 3, 2010)

sharpfang said:


> I don't See others getting fingered in this thread, for their purchasing and/or
> Owning "Albogans", So I'll consider the Sources.....Except 4 One
> 
> -Jason


That's because nobody else in this thread is posting pictures of breeding two different species together.

I thought it was pretty obvious...


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## spiderfield (Mar 3, 2010)

Rick West has a couple pics of _B. albopilosum_...maybe this could help clear some things up in terms of them having naturally varying shades:

http://www.birdspiders.com/gallery/p.php?id=173
http://www.birdspiders.com/gallery/p.php?id=872


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## ZergFront (Mar 3, 2010)

codykrr said:


> i have to agree with Joe


 I think it just got really chilly below the Earth's crust. ;P

 I don't know what to say about breeding two separate species since I'm not sure myself what I think of it yet. 

 Even though if it's a hybrid, it's still very pretty and should be treated with as much care and respect as any other tarantula (I know. Might have been needless to say for at least most). Just wouldn't breed a tarantula that bares some question mark regardless of curiosity of how the offspring will turn out or wether it does happen in the wild. It shows here not many would appreciate getting sold hybrids.


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## codykrr (Mar 3, 2010)

just because me and Joe aren't BFF's doesn't mean i cant agree with one of the many post's i don't agree with

But, hell might have just froze over. haha.


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## bliss (Mar 3, 2010)

My input would be this:  I've had several sibling albopilosums in the past, and one did come out a little oddly colored.  The rest appeared "normal" in color.  What you guys are forgetting is that color alone is not a good indicator of anything towards the claim of "hybrid", just like Eric pointed out.  

Also, I don't see why everyone is demonizing Sharpfang.  The only reason I would question sharpfang's intentions with the interbreeding is if he intends to sell them... Then that would be a problem (yes, even if papers were included, because someone somewhere would screw up the names, sell them as something they're not, etc).  I have talked to a couple people who have bred vagans/albopilosum and have gotten offspring, but they didn't sell any of them.


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## BrettG (Mar 3, 2010)

jebbewocky said:


> Looks like a B.vagans x B.alpopilosum to me, for what that's worth, which is close to nil, lol.
> 
> And even if he is a hybrid, I think he's a keeper.


Ha,you should see what a LPS here has...vagans/emilia hybrid.......$200..And its ugly as sin...


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## xhexdx (Mar 3, 2010)

Bliss,

Selling vs. giving them away.  Difference?


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## sharpfang (Mar 3, 2010)

*Bliss*

Notice that I am MOSTLY Demonized, by the GOD-LIKE Opinions

of "certain" Individuals......and Since this Post....Have received NUMEROUS "Nasty" PM's. I don't know if the Mods can see All those when sent :?
But I responded w/: I am A reasonable Person/Hobbyist, and would gladly "Discuss" Topic......

....When I am Talked down 2, or Insulted by Blatently EGO driven individuals,
....Well, It Negates their whole stance quite Frankly  - Jason J. Brown

P.S. I did voice a "concern" on the issue....In ALL fairness. And the More I think Bout' it......Only a FEW would appreciate the "Hybrids"......Maybe I should take a POLL on AB ?  And if the Majority "FEEL", that I should Destroy
the sack......or let the babies cannabalize ea. other, till just a Few for me to Keep......Then I would be willing 2 listen 2 reason......Not gonna listen or talk
2 those who FEEL, they are above others....then "act" validated 
because a few others behave & treat members similarly, and support.

Thank God 4 the Ignore Feature :worship:


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## Smitty78 (Mar 3, 2010)

sharpfang said:


> Notice that I am MOSTLY Demonized, by the GOD-LIKE Opinions


Maybe they are more educated, rational, able to understand reason, able to understand the ignorance and repercussions associated with crossbreeding. 

But hey, that's just my opinion!

Poll options should be.

#1 Should I destroy the sack?
#2 Should I keep the sack?
#3 Was I foolish to do this in the first place?
#4 Both #1, and #3.


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## Mack&Cass (Mar 3, 2010)

A few things:

1. All I will say in regards to the hybrid debate is that I agree with Joe in that if you aren't positive they are the same species, I wouldn't try it. At least you made this thread inquiring instead of just seeing what happens.

2. Joe, that male B. albo is the baldest thing I've ever seen.

3. Cody, the last pictures you posted looks exactly like our female B. albo did before her last molt. She darkened up considerably with her most recent molt, in which she became sexually mature (and she's gravid so I'm positive that she's mature). When I get home from work in an hour I'll post some pictures of her before her most recent molt and after, as well as pictures of our MM before his ultimate molt and after. I really have no idea if yours is a hybrid or not, but I don't think I'd use the lighter carapace as an indication of a hybrid. What do her spermathecae look like?

Cass


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## JC (Mar 3, 2010)

Mack&Cass said:


> A few things:
> 
> ...2. Joe, that male B. albo is the baldest thing I've ever seen


LMAO. I have to agree. He doesn't hold back on the kicking does he.


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## Endagr8 (Mar 3, 2010)

*"When in doubt, cull it out." (JK?)*

My ~5" female for comparison (purchased from KTBG in '08):







codykrr said:


> yeah kind like when YOU mispelt something last night!


I just wanted to point out the irony of misspelling "misspelt." 


Smitty78 said:


> Maybe they are more educated, rational, able to understand reason, able to understand the ignorance and repercussions associated with crossbreeding.
> 
> But hey, that's just my opinion!
> 
> ...


Great post, Smitty! I agree wholeheartedly! :clap:


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## jebbewocky (Mar 3, 2010)

JC said:


> LMAO. I have to agree. He doesn't hold back on the kicking does he.


Huh.
Now I wish I had taken more pics of my G.rosea torwards the end--waaay balder.


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## codykrr (Mar 3, 2010)

hey im not trying to start a debate or inhibit the personal attacks towards jason.

i was just curious about my Ts.

anyway mabey next molt she will darken up a bit. they are both right around 3.5 inches.

i know color is not an indicator of hybrids or a way to I.D. anything but i was mearly asking if this is what a normal male and female sold in the hobby as B. albo looks like.

as all the pictures i have seen dont.

anyway i will up date this thread the next time they molt. and i wont breed them unless im positive of what they may be. if that ever happens.


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## jeff1962 (Mar 3, 2010)

bliss said:


> My input would be this:  I've had several sibling albopilosums in the past, and one did come out a little oddly colored.  The rest appeared "normal" in color.  What you guys are forgetting is that color alone is not a good indicator of anything towards the claim of "hybrid", just like Eric pointed out.
> 
> Also, I don't see why everyone is demonizing Sharpfang.  The only reason I would question sharpfang's intentions with the interbreeding is if he intends to sell them... Then that would be a problem (yes, even if papers were included, because someone somewhere would screw up the names, sell them as something they're not, etc).  I have talked to a couple people who have bred vagans/albopilosum and have gotten offspring, but they didn't sell any of them.


 The problem with this is that even if people say they are going to keep them thats not a good enough arguement, if thats what you are saying. The reason being that most people in this hobby despite how much they are into it when they do something like this are not going to keep a bunch of hybrids from egg to grave. When they decide they want to get out of the hobby they are not going to care in who gets them they are just going to dump a bunch of spiders into the market to people who don't know what they are getting. This is one of many reasons why hybridization is so bad for the hobby.


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## jeff1962 (Mar 3, 2010)

Smitty78 said:


> Maybe they are more educated, rational, able to understand reason, able to understand the ignorance and repercussions associated with crossbreeding.
> 
> But hey, that's just my opinion!
> 
> ...


 Excellent point ! :clap::clap::clap:


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## Mack&Cass (Mar 3, 2010)

Okay, here are some pictures. I know there were other ones posted, but more don't hurt.

Here's our male, when he was prepenultimate:






Penultimate:






Ultimate:






And our female before her most recent molt (she was in premolt, hence the chunky):






And now, in her gravidy-goodness:






I hope this helps.

Cass


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## codykrr (Mar 3, 2010)

thanks Cass.

glad mine isnt the only one with the pinkish bronze carapce. yours looks just like mine does.

like i said i will update when they molt again.


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## pouchedrat (Mar 4, 2010)

I think they're pretty, honestly.  hybrids actually really fascinate me.  I know there's a hex against them here, but they still fascinate me.  They'd have to be acknowledged AS hybrids, obviously, but still interesting to see


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## bliss (Mar 4, 2010)

xhexdx said:


> Bliss,
> 
> Selling vs. giving them away.  Difference?


Hi Joe, 

Difference.  
One has to deal with a monetary amount being given to sharpfang for the slings.  The other one has to deal with him giving them to others, free of said monetary value.  

I realize that he said "If I give them away", but when I was posting my reply I was thinking 'sale' for some reason.  Either way, let me be a bit more clear on my views.  I personally don't have a problem with creating hybrids, as long as they are not made available to other hobbyists, or put onto the market.


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## sharpfang (Mar 4, 2010)

*Very Assumptive and Speculative Jeff*

But thanx 4 knowing exactly what's gonna Happen to the yet to Hatch Sack.

And Smitty: Now you wanna talk Publicly......Where's the Cursing Now ?

And this is One issue......Where R the Other reasonings & Excuses 4 

Talking Down 2 members.....On even the tiniest debatable Issues/discussions?

THIS IS WHY MANY on AB Don't feel OPEN to Discuss their feelings 

Robc, Joe "knows", Smitty, and other "TOP-DOGS", Do NOT intimidate me at All. PERIOD. And other members have relayed similar distaste 4 them also......
Just Don't wanna risk TRASHING/berating......say what U want. It will be taken 4 now on w/ grains of Salt/pepper, Cayenne, paprika, etc. 
All the Good you do 4 members is Negated - By your constant Critcism & Negativity.....
{Not just a issue of x-breeding......everything is an "ISSUE" w/ U guys :clap:
And I am putting you ALL, on my Ignore list 

The Mods will keep things civil. And rescently, They had it out w/ most of you. I am Done w/ your disrespect in Public forums, AND in PM's! {sneaky}
And will forward ALL future PM's to Administrators.

"Hybridizing" is a CONTROVERSIAL subject, Un-doubtedly......

But, Assuming that I am Gonna "Muddy" the Hobby as End did once.....Is Not 

fair 2 Assume. Raises Concern - SURE....I have stated some of them Even.....

I will Post a POLL, in the Future, 2 see/hear, what other REASONABLE and respectful members.......have to say bout "Hybridizing" these Imperticular, 2 species....and What "should" become, of "potential" Egg-Sack. Let the Majority decide - Not just a few, such is the Way of America.

- Jason James Brown


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## bliss (Mar 4, 2010)

jeff1962 said:


> The problem with this is that even if people say they are going to keep them thats not a good enough arguement, if thats what you are saying. The reason being that most people in this hobby despite how much they are into it when they do something like this are not going to keep a bunch of hybrids from egg to grave. When they decide they want to get out of the hobby they are not going to care in who gets them they are just going to dump a bunch of spiders into the market to people who don't know what they are getting. This is one of many reasons why hybridization is so bad for the hobby.


Is think my argument is very valid.
Like I said, I have no problem with people trying to create hybrids, as long as they don't end up in the hands of someone else.  



			
				jeff1962 said:
			
		

> The reason being that most people in this hobby despite how much they are into it when they do something like this are not going to keep a bunch of hybrids from egg to grave.


I don't understand the first part, despite they are into what? Hybridization? <<Edit: NVRMND. I gotcha now. 
You are right, when a spider has a lot of babies, you don't want to keep ALL of them... and if you don't want to keep hybrids, then there's another option..  (see response below).



> When they decide they want to get out of the hobby they are not going to care in who gets them they are just going to dump a bunch of spiders into the market to people who don't know what they are getting. This is one of many reasons why hybridization is so bad for the hobby.


Or, if they are a responsible keeper, they will just stick 'em in the freezer.  And yes, I realize doing that would suck.  

Here's my idea scenario for my point of view:
- _Responsible_ keeper decides to try a hybridization "experiment".  
- Once they get baby hybrids, they keep them and raise them, OR, they keep a certain amount of them and stick the rest in the freezer.. OR just leave all the babies together and let their numbers dwindle due to cannibalism.  
- Should they decide to end the experiment, or if they decide to / have to get rid of them, then stick 'em in the freezer.  

I realize certain aspects of that are very "cruel" in the name of experimentation, but still -- how would that hurt the hobby?


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## Endagr8 (Mar 4, 2010)

sharpfang said:


> THIS IS WHY MANY on AB Don't feel OPEN to Discuss their feelings


-500 man points for having said that. JK 


sharpfang said:


> But, Assuming that I am Gonna "Muddy" the Hobby as End did once.....Is Not
> 
> fair 2 Assume. Raises Concern - SURE....I have stated some of them Even.....


All I'm saying is that if any resulting offspring make it into the hands of others, how can you be assured that they'll be as "responsible" or "knowledgeable" as you?


sharpfang said:


> I will Post a POLL, in the Future, 2 see/hear, what other REASONABLE and respectful members.......have to say bout "Hybridizing" these Imperticular, 2 species....and What "should" become, of "potential" Egg-Sack. Let the Majority decide - Not just a few, such is the Way of America.


Thank God polls are anonymous, for the most part. We wouldn't want the vast numbers of those that disagree with you to make it into your ignore list.


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## xhexdx (Mar 4, 2010)

bliss said:


> Hi Joe,
> 
> Difference.
> One has to deal with a monetary amount being given to sharpfang for the slings.  The other one has to deal with him giving them to others, free of said monetary value.
> ...


I can understand and respect this view.  Thanks for your response as well.

The potential problem I see from this is the admittance that slings would be passed to others.

I also agree with what you said in a later post about being responsible with destroying hybrids that aren't kept by the original breeder.  You're right, it doesn't affect the hobby.  It's unfortunate that someone is creating life with the intention of destroying it, but that's what cricket/roach/rat/etc. breeders do all the time as well.


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## crawltech (Mar 4, 2010)

These are my three albo`s....heres a couple shots to compare to.......

3 inch unsexed juvie













almost 5 inch female albo













6inch female albo....seems they loose the gold carapace, once fully mature..













Hope this helps you guys out......Cody, your "albos", dont look like "true" albos, from what ive seen over the years, anywayz....not knockin `em, they are beautilful!....good luck mang,...hope you make the right choice

No comment on the crossbreeding


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## bliss (Mar 4, 2010)

xhexdx said:


> I can understand and respect this view.  Thanks for your response as well.
> 
> The potential problem I see from this is the admittance that slings would be passed to others.
> 
> I also agree with what you said in a later post about being responsible with destroying hybrids that aren't kept by the original breeder.  You're right, it doesn't affect the hobby.  It's unfortunate that someone is creating life with the intention of destroying it, but that's what cricket/roach/rat/etc. breeders do all the time as well.


No Problem Joe.  

Yes, slings being passed on would be the main cause for concern.  

It's funny you should mention cricket/roach/rat/etc breeders, you see I have contemplated "experimentation" with different species, and just throwing the unwanted slings into the freezer.  But I can't do that sort of thing.. 
That's where things differ, breeding feeders, such as the ones you listed, actually benefit from experimentation in the long run, the results go on to serve a better purpose.  Hybridizing T's, just for your own experiment, really serves no "great" purpose... So while I cannot personally perform these "experiments" because of the reasons I just listed, I still think it's interesting to see what comes out from other responsible T owners who decide to try it (and don't feel bad about the freezer).   

I hope that makes sense.  lol.


----------



## xhexdx (Mar 4, 2010)

Yep, makes sense, and I agree with you.


----------



## jeff1962 (Mar 4, 2010)

"Very Assumptive and Speculative Jeff 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But thanx 4 knowing exactly what's gonna Happen to the yet to Hatch Sack."

  Well Sharpfang let me explain to you why I feel that way. Most people simply are not as responsible as you may or may not be.To many people see pets a disposable and something to get rid of once the excitement of having them wears off. If you doubt that take a look at the pet section on Craigs list. I have 8 tarantulas in my collection as I type this that were given to me by people who in there words " just don't have time for them anymore ". I have been on this forum long enough to see plenty of people come and go . If you doubt that take a close look at the for sale section on this forum.

  I am sure there are some keepers that would be responsible enough to do this. But frankly my experience in life tells me most are not going to be.To me the risk of hybridization FAR out weighs any gains. The lets just do it and see what we get idea is pretty lame and not at all responsible.


----------



## Smitty78 (Mar 4, 2010)

Jason,

You asked me earlier via PM if I was insulting your intelligence. I am not. I will let your own words speak for them self. As for your "talk Publicly" statement, lets bring it all out. That way you, nor I have nothing to hide.

My first message to you. (I will add no cursing, as accused).



> Thumbs down  Seriously Dude
> Jason,
> 
> Why in the <edit> would you intentionally crossbreed? Doing things like that will eventually ruin the true lines of a species in the hobby. I strongly urge you to destroy this sack if you get one. Judging by your mentality, and intelligence of posts. I seriously doubt you understand the significance or impact it will have on the breed, and hobby. Say you do get a sack, and decide to sell or give away any of it. Then who is to say what NOOB will crossbreed yet again, and again, and again. Eventually true B. albopilosum will be non existent in the hobby. You also need to consider your reputation, and how this has already tarnished it. I am 100% positive there are others like me whom will NEVER lend you any support, let alone purchase anything from you. Not a smart move dude, and I seriously hope you destroy the sack if you get one.
> ...


Your Reply:



> Exclamation  As Usual....I am willing 2 listen
> 2 a Voice of reason.....like JC
> 
> However, when I read your ONLY 2 comments 2 me...
> ...


My reply to the above message:



> Jason,
> 
> I honestly cannot recall doing anything to slander you, or anything of that nature. By nature I am a cynical person. I also do not recall you ever asking me for advice, and I am always happy to answer or assist a serious question. I do not even read the forums very much anymore, do to all the idiotic things that go on here like Crossbreeding, repetitive questions, etc.... I wish you would have actually given a reply to my message versus talking uselessly about other people whom I do not control, or speak for. We all have our opinions. One thing you will find about me, I am not the scratch you on the back, good job yaaaa type of guy. I am blunt, honest, and too the point. At the same time, I will always give advice, and always try to make it correct advice. If I am not giving the correct advice, or do not know the correct answer I will not say anything. As I stated earlier, I am blunt, and I will insult people if they have done something stupid such as intentionally crossbreeding. It's not just you that I have had this crossbreeding conversation with. It is 110% wrong!
> 
> ...


Your reply to the above message:



> Exclamation  Re: As Usual....I am willing 2 listen
> Yet Moments ago...U said: U would Not talk 2 me in future - Back-Tracking....Just B respectful 2 me....I hear your point..........
> U forget our last interactions....shows how U relate w/ people
> 
> ...


My reply to the above post: (although I am sure I've been ignored)



> You're correct, I will not unless you decide to make the correct choice.
> 
> You're the one that claimed that I was "insulting your intelligence", I guess your typing style, etc... goes to prove your "intelligence.
> 
> ...



I am used to being the bad guy Jason. I have no problem with that. One area that I could use some improvement is tact, but seriously with you. What's the point?

I tried, but obviously to no avail. 

I could have saved my time, and effort and asked kindly to PUHLLEEZ dNT xbreed:liar::wall::evil:...... Only to get the same reply!


----------



## sharpfang (Mar 4, 2010)

*I Hear You Clearer Now Jeff*

Just don't appreciate U Assuming, that I.....Am Irresponsible.......

see where I "felt" Disrespected ????

And my frustration w/ those on AB regularly, that can easily at times, be considered to make comments & voice Opinions, that can B construde as rude, and/or un-productive, let alone Sladerous.....Well....it's been billowing up in me...... I don't like 2 see people disrespected Or talked Down 2.
Certainly, Not what I attempt 2 go around here doing. I try 2 help, and Share,
And LEARN. None of US, ever Learn it All...

Nobody - questions some of these long-time members Knowledge/Experience.....Just the WAY, they go bout' sharing it. And "few" Q: that....mostly just Mods......and the few that DO, get TRASHED for doing as such. Or - just TRASHED for talkin' every day stuff, for that Matter......

I see a trend....in my short time here.......Of members using QUOTES in sigs,
Acknowledging many REGULARS "disrespect" of others......Like IT's Funny! 

"If U knew what U were talkin' bout', there would Not be an issue" 

Must be nice 2 B so All-Knowing, and Above others {when it comes 2 Tarantulas Soley}.......Or maybe, it's just annoying 2 them, that Their own self-perceived Intellect....Is rarely Matched.

Why should I Even care, right ??? I have a really hard time, watching people get "Dissed", unnescessarily. Especially, when they attack a persons writing style, sexuality, ethnicity, RELIGION, etc. Or just BEING a NEW member, Not yet familiar w/ T ways......But, genuinely Interested. Yes - I have seen it more than feels fair/acceptable......During my time on AB. So have You!

Debates R healthy, Arguments/Disrespect R Not, and are counter-productive, AND draining, and a Waste of my time, as well as Others.

If I did Not care what people thought......I would Not even discuss. 

- Jason J. Brown 

P.S. 2 the one that started the thread: I appologize for Disrupting it's Flow.
Not what I meant, 2 set out 2 do. I will leave it alone Now. I am sorry 4 other comment also - Wrong of Me.

ADDED EDITED: Oh, and lastly, 2 Smitty........You "Conveiniently" leave some Facts and past "quotes" out...2 try to "justify" yourself..........I am Not anywhere, near, as Computer savy as you. But this has really become a Distorted OVERKILL @ this point.


----------



## Smitty78 (Mar 4, 2010)

sharpfang said:


> ADDED EDITED: Oh, and lastly, 2 Smitty........You "Conveiniently" leave some Facts and past "quotes" out...2 try to "justify" yourself..........I am Not anywhere, near, as Computer savy as you. But this has really become a Distorted OVERKILL @ this point.





			
				sharpfang said:
			
		

> However, when I read your ONLY 2 comments 2 me...
> 
> ....In the 7 months or so on AB.... I gotta figure that,
> 
> I was NEVER gonna receive Help from U or Joe..........



What do you mean? You read my 2 comments to you in 7 months. I think you can figure this out just fine. 

PLEASE, and I mean PRETTY PLEASE (just asking nicely) feel free to post anything I left out. Fact's, Quotes, hurt feelings, etc..... I just want to make sure that I am clear, and have not missed anything.:?

Edited to add:




			
				sharpfang said:
			
		

> CodyKrr on my Ignore list, as well as other <edit>.


I thought Cody was on your ignore list?




			
				sharpfang said:
			
		

> P.S. 2 the one that started the thread: I appologize for Disrupting it's Flow.
> Not what I meant, 2 set out 2 do. I will leave it alone Now. I am sorry 4 other comment also - Wrong of Me.


If he is really on your "Ignore list", how are you seeing his post's? He did start the post after all.


----------



## BlackCat (Mar 4, 2010)

Two things..

1) I agree 100% that hybridizing should not be done in any situation where the offspring will end up in the hands of anyone other than the breeder.

2) @ Sharpfang... your posts are difficult and annoying to read. TBH I can't read anything else you write or I'm afraid I'm going to get a brain aneurysm.

Your posting style makes it difficult to take you seriously, and true or not, it also makes you appear immature. Your hybridization experiment lends credibility to the assumption that you are immature, as does your reaction to anyone who's opinion differs from yours. I know I would also never purchase from you.





My .02


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## AudreyElizabeth (Mar 4, 2010)

Here is Jeff1962's MM _Brachypelma albopilosum_ (sent to me for breeding)
This pic is in my picture thread, but I'll post it here for comparison purposes.


----------



## codykrr (Mar 4, 2010)

Thanks Audrey,
Jason if you can see this, i never claimed to know everything about Ts one bit either.

i simply tried to purchase a MM versicolor from you and you wanted to act like a child.

i made a fair offer and you were talking about sugar vinegar..and apple and whatever.

im just a straight shooter. especially when it comes to money. and i dont want to make an offer and be fooled around.

so if its to much for you to actually be serious when it comes to deal time then keep me on your ignore list.

(ps i got a mature male)


----------



## kripp_keeper (Mar 4, 2010)

I don't think I've seen anyone get this concerned about keeping blood lines pure since Hitler.


----------



## Anastasia (Mar 4, 2010)

kripp_keeper said:


> I don't think I've seen anyone get this concerned about keeping blood lines pure since Hitler.


Aha!, I know that guy tried to kill my grandpaps
I have nothing to say about brachypelmas, dont keep any dont know nothin about them


ask Ryan (talkenlate) while back he had signature stated 'ask me anything about brachys' or sumthing like that
I et he knows


----------



## Krippschick (Mar 4, 2010)

Well it could be like dogs where you have to register your pure breeds and pay for all the paper work, then others would know what they are buying.


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## skippy (Mar 4, 2010)

dogs are all the same species and thus, not a good parallel


----------



## Exo (Mar 4, 2010)

All this hybrid buisness has me a bit worred about my 3 vagans slings, they are about an inch and have some pink on their carapace. Does anybody have a photo of a confirmed vagans sling about that size so I can compare them?

Thanks.


----------



## kripp_keeper (Mar 4, 2010)

skippy said:


> dogs are all the same species and thus, not a good parallel


First off they shouldn't be the same species(neither should people). 
Second her point was that if it was set up that way people would know what they were paying for.


----------



## skippy (Mar 4, 2010)

kripp_keeper said:


> First off they shouldn't be the same species(neither should people).
> Second her point was that if it was set up that way people would know what they were paying for.


that first line verges on disturbing racism. there is a distinct difference between crossing breed lines (like a mutt vs a "pure breed) compared to an actual species hybridization (your ligers, mules and what have you). all dogs are classified Canis lupus familiaris whereas the sp of T in question share only a genus, not a species. you wouldn't advocate crossing a common chimp with a bonobo would you? they share the same genus so it's ok, right?

as for a pure blood papering system, it would be ruinously expensive and painfully difficult to enact considering the # of slings that a single eggsack can produce. also, how would you propose to determine the blood line of your papered spider? dna? little expensive for the layperson. this is why it's frowned upon by many here, because anything but an honor system is impractical at best.


----------



## jayefbe (Mar 4, 2010)

kripp_keeper said:


> First off they shouldn't be the same species(neither should people).
> Second her point was that if it was set up that way people would know what they were paying for.


I also noted the tinge of racism in your post, and as a biracial Homo sapiens, I'm incredibly offended.

That aside, your belief that dogs and people should be separate species shows a clear misunderstanding and ignorance of how species are defined.  Dogs and humans of all breeds and races have clear gene flow occurring with no decrease in fecundity.  There are no reproductive barriers (pre-zygotic or post-zygotic) and no speciation mechanisms occurring.  Beyond all doubt, your opinion is scientifically unfounded and wrong.


----------



## BlackCat (Mar 4, 2010)

Race is categorized into subspecies, as are dog breeds. 

Like what Skippy said, basically, crossing tarantula species is basically equivalent to crossing a human with another in the Homo genus, all of which are extinct aside from us, like the most recent living Homo floresiensis species.

I'm not sure he meant that to be "racist", just a misunderstanding of classifications.. I hope.


----------



## skippy (Mar 4, 2010)

more than likely it was nothing more than a poor choice of words and a poor understanding of the issue at hand. i can not, however, allow it to pass without comment.


----------



## rustym3talh3ad (Mar 4, 2010)

so weighing in on the original idea of this...those DO look a lot like the hybrids i currently hold in my collection. though im sure there are other color forms of albos out there as well as the black vagans posted earlier i cant help but think those two are hybrids. (i will post pics of the juvies i have if interested BUT i want it to be known i DID NOT breed them myself nor will i release any information other than they were a freebie and im raising them simply to see what they turn out to be) 

NOW saying they are both hybrids may actually be slightly beneficial to the hobby becuz for the longest of time we have assumed that hybrids would be sterile. i say IF cody is ready to deal with the flack and barrage of insults hook em up, see what happens...DO NOT sell or distribute but as Bliss mentioned, let them cannibalize each other to an acceptable number and keep them for research purpose...or if nothing else as something no one else has. 

i personally know a breeder who is waiting for his current hybrid offspring to reach an adult size just to see what the color difference between MM1-B. vagans X MF1-B. albo and then a different set of babies being MM2-B. albo X MF2-B. vagans. so its all about responsibility and ethics...if u try experiments, fine but when u make them public dont complain about the insults and criticism and DONT be a fool about it and try to stain the already tarnished hobby. 

My two cents.


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## Kirk (Mar 4, 2010)

kripp_keeper said:


> First off they shouldn't be the same species(neither should people).





BlackCat said:


> Race is categorized into subspecies, as are dog breeds.


Umm, not quite. We are a single subspecies, _Homo sapiens sapiens_. The domestic dog, inclusive of all breeds, is the subspecies _Canis lupus familiaris_.

Good luck trying to unequivocally define the terms race and subspecies, especially when there's no consensus in biology regarding the definition of species.


----------



## VESPidA (Mar 4, 2010)

*pretty please*

can anyone help me w/ sexing my albo back on page 1 (if possible?).  i can't post the pics elsewhere since they're already posted here (how do people get around that?).  thanks!


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## rustym3talh3ad (Mar 4, 2010)

HokiePokie727 said:


> can anyone help me w/ sexing my albo back on page 1 (if possible?).  i can't post the pics elsewhere since they're already posted here (how do people get around that?).  thanks!



thats hijacking and also frowned upon on the boards lmao ;P 

looks female to me.


----------



## xhexdx (Mar 4, 2010)

People get around it by uploading the pic to photobucket and just linking it from here.


----------



## BlackCat (Mar 4, 2010)

Kirk said:


> Umm, not quite. We are a single subspecies, _Homo sapiens sapiens_. The domestic dog, inclusive of all breeds, is the subspecies _Canis lupus familiaris_.


I stand corrected, I guess I remembered it wrong, but PLEASE don't quote me along side someone saying that people shouldn't be in the same species. 

Anyways, found an interesting article about race taxonomy here: http://www.nature.com/ng/journal/v36/n11s/full/ng1455.html


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## VESPidA (Mar 4, 2010)

rustym3talh3ad said:


> thats hijacking and also frowned upon on the boards lmao ;P
> 
> looks female to me.


not sure if that was intended to be sarcastic, but my post was clearly relevant.  cody asked if i knew the sex of mine and if i could post pics, since our albos were likely sacmates; i posted and received no reply.



xhexdx said:


> People get around it by uploading the pic to photobucket and just linking it from here.


awesome, thx!


----------



## kripp_keeper (Mar 4, 2010)

I'm not racist at all. I also do not see how my comment was racist.


----------



## codykrr (Mar 4, 2010)

haha i love how threads are so lit up around here! hahaha:clap:

and hokie, its hard to say what sex yours is. 

the top right picture sorta looks male and then the last bottom picture looks female.

not the best pics to sex it from.


----------



## Krippschick (Mar 4, 2010)

Im sorry if I upset anyone, and my husband wasnt being racist, he has bi racial relatives. It just seemed a few people were upset not knowing what they were buying. I understand it would be very costly to register breeds. It was just food for thought, I wasnt trying to compare dogs to tarantulas necessarily. If the honor system is working so well, why are people upset? And shouldnt we give time to someone to build that honor system? Maybe the people who say they wont sell hybrids and keep them and so on...will keep their word. They just need the time to build a reputation. Just my opinion. Not saying im in any way an expert. I just think new people should be given a chance, at least one anyways.


----------



## scottyk (Mar 4, 2010)

Cody- As I mentioned in another thread we are going to be neighbors in a couple of months. I have a large female that I am certain (as anyone in the hobby can be) is a pure B. albopilosum. 

You are welcome to take a look at her when I get settled in for a close up comparison with yours. I'd snap a pic but she is gettting ready to molt, and in typical fashion for this species, has completely buried herself.

Honestly, I know you can't tell from a picture, but I find that light edging on the carapace unusual. I've owned several of these and they have all been relatively uniformly colored. Mine look more like the link Eric (Go Terps) provided.

Scott


----------



## VESPidA (Mar 4, 2010)

codykrr said:


> haha i love how threads are so lit up around here! hahaha:clap:
> 
> and hokie, its hard to say what sex yours is.
> 
> ...


ok, thanks... i appreciate the reply.  those were the clearest shots i could get, so oh well.  i'll be curious to see whether mine looks similar to yours in a few molts, and i made a note to follow-up on this thread when that happens.


----------



## xhexdx (Mar 4, 2010)

Krippschick said:


> he has bi racial relatives.


Uh...

We *all* have bi-racial relatives.  It means nothing as far as racism is concerned.


----------



## Krippschick (Mar 4, 2010)

Well all i can say is I, for one, am not racist. There are good and bad people in every race/country/everywhere. I will just stick to reading the forums. I dont want to cause any problems.


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## rustym3talh3ad (Mar 4, 2010)

HokiePokie727 said:


> not sure if that was intended to be sarcastic, but my post was clearly relevant.  cody asked if i knew the sex of mine and if i could post pics, since our albos were likely sacmates; i posted and received no reply.
> 
> 
> 
> awesome, thx!



nah i was being saucy thats all lol....and as i said i think female 

ps just realized this was my 666th post...i shall never post again lmao. thanks everyone for putting up with me!


----------



## endoflove (Mar 4, 2010)

hmm i was always under the impression that even close related T's had a hard time breeding( like the issue with T. Blondie and T. spp. maybe we have been trying to breed 2 diffrent spiders together =low success rate?) but a far form speculation im wondering how reseptive the female must have been hmm.....


----------



## VESPidA (Mar 4, 2010)

rustym3talh3ad said:


> nah i was being saucy thats all lol....and as i said i think female
> 
> ps just realized this was my 666th post...i shall never post again lmao. thanks everyone for putting up with me!


well your sauce is a little weak


lol j/k.  thanks for the input


----------



## BCscorp (Mar 5, 2010)

hybrids are <bleep> 
it serves no purpose regardless if it happens ON THE RARE OCCASION naturally
and they are ugly as <bleep>


----------



## Fran (Mar 5, 2010)

BCscorp said:


> hybrids are <bleep>
> it serves no purpose regardless if it happens ON THE RARE OCCASION naturally
> and they are ugly as <bleep>


A deep thought, indeed.


----------



## BCscorp (Mar 5, 2010)

Fran said:


> A deep thought, indeed.


I got another one for you
read your pm


----------



## Fran (Mar 5, 2010)

BCscorp said:


> I got another one for you
> read your pm


 
 Let me go cry a bit, be right back.
In the meantime, it wouldnt do you any bad  if you educate yourself a bit... before posting, you know, learning some manners.At least read the rules.


----------



## BCscorp (Mar 5, 2010)

Fran said:


> Let me go cry a bit, be right back.
> In the mean time, it wouldnt do you any bad  if you educate yourself a bit... before posting, you know, learning some manners.At least read the rules.


btw
your comment on my opinion was unnecessary
why should I get "deep" on this topic?
I cant control what the guy does with his spiders


----------



## Fran (Mar 5, 2010)

BCscorp said:


> btw
> your comment on my opinion was unnecessary
> why should I get "deep" on this topic?
> I cant control what the guy does with his spiders



What was totally unnecessary was your first comment.


----------



## BCscorp (Mar 5, 2010)

Fran said:


> What was totally unnecessary was your first comment.


hows that?
thats my opinion on hybrids
heres my male B. albopilosum


----------



## CAK (Mar 5, 2010)

(Note to self...   This is why you don't post here.)


----------



## Kirk (Mar 5, 2010)

BCscorp said:


> hybrids are <bleep>
> it serves no purpose regardless if it happens ON THE RARE OCCASION naturally
> and they are ugly as <bleep>


So I reckon the topic of horticulture really gets your panties in a knot. Visit a plant nursery and try to find all the non-hybrids.


----------



## xhexdx (Mar 5, 2010)

CAK said:


> (Note to self...   This is why you don't post here.)


Then you become a hypocrite by posting. 

I'm just messing with ya, Joe.  Don't anyone flame me!


----------



## CAK (Mar 5, 2010)

xhexdx said:


> Then you become a hypocrite by posting.
> 
> I'm just messing with ya, Joe.  Don't anyone flame me!



Hahh!  Thought about that after I sent it  :wall:    


No flamage here!


----------



## Kirk (Mar 5, 2010)

skippy said:


> dogs are all the same species and thus, not a good parallel


Actually, it's an excellent parallel - organisms under captive conditions can exhibit a wide range of variation, even among members of the same species. Formal species descriptions provide the requisite characters that are regarded as 'separating' one species from another. Maybe it's time to actually look at those features to discern if one is dealing with a hybrid, rather than running the risk of confusing that with just basic variance.


----------



## BCscorp (Mar 5, 2010)

Kirk said:


> So I reckon the topic of horticulture really gets your panties in a knot. Visit a plant nursery and try to find all the non-hybrids.


what does plants have to do with tarantula hybrids?
if you had noticed, the thread is about hybrids/possible hybrids of B. albopilosum and B. vagans and comparisons between specimens.
So I see no correlation between your comment on horticulture and the thread other than me not specifying that I think
"tarantula hybrids are <bleep>"
And I have worked for about 8 years total at three different plant nurseries...


----------



## Kirk (Mar 5, 2010)

BCscorp said:


> what does plants have to do with tarantula hybrids?
> if you had noticed, the thread is about hybrids/possible hybrids of B. albopilosum and B. vagans and comparisons between specimens.
> So I see no correlation between your comment on horticulture and the thread other than me not specifying that I think
> "tarantula hybrids are <bleep>"
> And I have worked for about 8 years total at three different plant nurseries...


My point was that hybridization is a common practice, and as such, there are no rules precluding anyone from engaging in such practices with tarantulas. Threads like these get derailed by so many having to speak their opinion about something that can, at best, be regarded as a matter of ethics.

The OP is concerned about a potential instance of a hybrid, not whether anyone engaged in the practice, and as such anyone's opinion (including yours) on hybrids is irrelevant here.


----------



## BCscorp (Mar 5, 2010)

Kirk said:


> My point was that hybridization is a common practice, and as such, there are no rules precluding anyone from engaging in such practices with tarantulas. Threads like these get derailed by so many having to speak their opinion about something that can, at best, be regarded as a matter of ethics.
> 
> The OP is concerned about a potential instance of a hybrid, not whether anyone engaged in the practice, and as such anyone's opinion (including yours) on hybrids is irrelevant here.


Then make your point, dont make it personal.
There were plenty of long winded personal opinions before mine....
The OP mentioned where the source of the possible hybrid(s) came from, which brings up who MAY be engaged someway, somehow, unwittingly or not, in hybrid Ts.
Anyways I contributed a picture of a mature male B. albopilosum for comparison, and stated how I feel about tarantula hybrids and made some new friends.
Cya around


----------



## CAK (Mar 5, 2010)

Remind me to hire "bouncers" when I invite you all to the next Christmas Party!

Little Joe


----------



## xhexdx (Mar 5, 2010)

I'll be watching for my invitation.


----------



## Kirk (Mar 5, 2010)

CAK said:


> Remind me to hire "bouncers" when I invite you all to the next Christmas Party!
> 
> Little Joe


I even promise to be rude, contrary to how I present myself here.


----------



## ZergFront (Mar 5, 2010)

CAK said:


> Remind me to hire "bouncers" when I invite you all to the next Christmas Party!
> 
> Little Joe


 Can you imagine if we all did shots for every time someone made a debate? 

 Actually, this is probably the most tame of the debates I've seen around here lately..sadly. Haha! (Cody is probably bored to tears by now, though)


----------



## Smitty78 (Mar 6, 2010)

ZergFront said:


> Can you imagine if we all did shots for every time someone made a debate?
> 
> Actually, this is probably the most tame of the debates I've seen around here lately..sadly. Haha! (Cody is probably bored to tears by now, though)


I wonder if Cody could figure out how to speak completely in lower case. Would it need to be in sluuuur, or draawl form? 

I'm game for shots


----------



## codykrr (Mar 6, 2010)

whats that supposed to mean smitty?

P.s.  I knew this would happen(not someone actually posting a picture of cross breeding) but i firgured this would turn into a debate of sorts.


----------



## Smitty78 (Mar 6, 2010)

Nothing serious. I was just kidding with you, since you always catch flack about your typing. Now there is yet another debate topic.


----------



## codykrr (Mar 6, 2010)

Ahh.. I see.

Cheers.


----------



## ArachnoYak (Mar 6, 2010)

Here's my MM:







and my Mature Female:







Btw for the record I agree with BCScorp.  Hybrids are <bleep>.  Those who are producing hybrids, or buying and selling hybrids(specifically dealers) are undermining the integrity of our hobby.


----------



## ZergFront (Mar 7, 2010)

Smitty78 said:


> Nothing serious. I was just kidding with you, since you always catch flack about your typing. Now there is yet another debate topic.


 Takes a shot of liquor.


----------



## Swifty (Mar 10, 2010)

*Swifty's views on hybrids*

Ok, Now that I have gone thru and wasted more of my life reading endless drivel other than what the thread was really about, and since my name was brought up, here is my response:

As far as if the B. albopilosum in question of Cody's are hybrids, I can honestly say, I don't know!

I personally haven't produced B. albopilosum for about 7 years. I bought these from a hobbyist, that sold them to me as B. albopilosum spiderlings. Was I suppose to ask them if they were hybrids?

I have seen the photos, and I'm not convinced they are hybrids.

I am a serious breeder, I wouldn't in my wildest dreams stoop as so low as to cross breed B. albopilosum / B. vagans, and misleadingly sell them to my customers. I wouldn't in my wildest dreams even breed these two species together, PERIOD!

As far as if breeding different species is ethical? Not in my book it's not, so lets put that up for the record, Kelly Swift is against hybridizing tarantulas.

Unfortunately, It's going to happen at some time, just too many people in the hobby, and some are just so desparate to breed something.

For all of you that think I sold them a hybridized tarantula, email me, and we can discuss it.

Swifty


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