# yellow sac spider



## OTwolfe (Apr 16, 2008)

My apartment has yellow sac spiders ( Cheiracanthium inclusum), or so it seems from searching the internet. I find one generally monthly, wandering around on the walls or ceiling. I've heard conflicting reports about their bites. Are these spiders actually dangerous, or is it mostly overblown?  I don't want to spray or call an exterminator, as I have T's. Any way to discourage them from living with me, other than lots of obsessive-compulsive cleaning? THank you!


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## hamfoto (Apr 16, 2008)

Sac spiders do have a nasty venom that has similar necrotic effects like Loxosceles.  In fact, they're bites are often confused and diagnosed as L. reclusa bites.

Chris


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## cacoseraph (Apr 17, 2008)

i thought there was still quite a bit of debate about how potent they were


i tried to get some C. inclusum sent to me but none made it

next time i find some/a C. mildei i will induce bites


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## hamfoto (Apr 17, 2008)

There are some studies out there...here is an old record.  See if you can get to this and if it's free.  It was for me...but at my office here at school.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/pagerender.fcgi?artid=1512058&pageindex=1

Chris


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## cacoseraph (Apr 17, 2008)

i could see it

i still want to take bites for myself... somethign strikes me as not right


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## Jpot (Apr 17, 2008)

cacoseraph said:


> i could see it
> 
> i still want to take bites for myself... somethign strikes me as not right


While you are at it, check to see if the Hobo Spider has a necrotic bite. I myself don't believe it to be so, but I like my skin too much to try it out for myself.

Edit: I have yellow sacs, not to mention Hobos, in my flat and have no problem with them.


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## OTwolfe (Apr 17, 2008)

thanks for the info everyone!


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## Venom (Apr 18, 2008)

Sac spider bites are no joke. Both of these are definite C.inclusum bites:

http://forums.insecthobbyist.com/view.php?id=20921,20921

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=68817

@ Cacoseraph: If you want yellow sac spiders, you should've pm'd me! I found about 30 of them this February. I have two in captivity right now. My area is infested with the little boogers.


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## cacoseraph (Apr 18, 2008)

Venom said:


> Sac spider bites are no joke. Both of these are definite C.inclusum bites:
> 
> http://forums.insecthobbyist.com/view.php?id=20921,20921
> 
> ...


in neither case was the malady ever positively identified as a Cheira bite.  both times someone has Cheira in their house and gets  hurt and blames it on the spiders

i am utterly not convinced

if you happen to be able to catch a cool 10-15 C. inclusum conveniently and it would not be a bother to mail them out perhaps we can make some kinda arrangement 

my last attempt at getting some inclusum ended not very well (one DOS and one DOA (dead on shipping, i knew about... the dead on arrival was a bit disappointing)


also, i can in no way prove that the spider is not that bad of a biter by having no reaction to it's bite.... but if i get nasty wounds every place i get bit by it... well, i will be a believer


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## OTwolfe (Apr 19, 2008)

well, next time I see one wandering on my walls I will try to catch it.


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## John Apple (Apr 19, 2008)

Andrew
I catch many of these in my house , no problems with undiagnosed bites yet:?  
If you would like some I'll catch them for ya. I see them and usually leave them alone or feed them to my green huntsman spiders.
I am also looking for laeta for a project if ya see any


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## Venom (Apr 19, 2008)

cacoseraph said:


> in neither case was the malady ever positively identified as a Cheira bite.  both times someone has Cheira in their house and gets  hurt and blames it on the spiders
> 
> i am utterly not convinced


I deal with these spiders extensively, both online and off. These cases match what I have observed in known "THIS spider bit me" cases. Cheiracanthium has a very distinctive manifestation in regard to its local effects. If the person examining the case knows what to look for, then it can be very reliably distinguished from any other cytotoxic spider bite. Certain systemic effects are also characteristic, though not always present. When they are present, and accompany a typical manifestation, and the progression and occurrence of the bite are typical, then I can say with near certainty that it is indeed a Cheiracanthium sp. bite. 

I do know what I am looking for. In the first link ( the one I posted here at AB in the Bite Reports section ), I am 100% certain of a C.inclusum being the culprit. Absolutely positive, no doubts whatsoever. In the second link, at insechobbyist, I would say I am 85 - 90+ % certain that it is a C.inclusum bite. 

If you don't feel comfortable saying with certainty "this is this species' bite,"  when the exact spider is not seen, then that's up to you, but I can confidently go out on that limb. These are both C.inclusum bites.




> if you happen to be able to catch a cool 10-15 C. inclusum conveniently and it would not be a bother to mail them out perhaps we can make some kinda arrangement


I'll see what I can do! hehe. Always happy to go collecting 




> also, i can in no way prove that the spider is not that bad of a biter by having no reaction to it's bite.... but if i get nasty wounds every place i get bit by it... well, i will be a believer


As always, it depends on the venom dosage. Some C. sp. bites only sting, swell and turn red. Others bubble and/ or bruise. In my research, open necrotic sores are rare, but reddened, sensitive and swollen welts are common, and occasionally they blister. But they almost always hurt badly.

If you're looking to test these, you want to get the C.inclusum, not the C. mildei. Our native inclusum is significantly more potent than the imported mildei. And in general it is more common throughout the nation. Up here, I have only seen 2 C. mildei's. I can't count the number of inclusums I've seen or caught, but I'm currently keeping my 12th and 13th C.inclusums in captivity. If I can get it to work, I have a picture to show ya later that you might get a kick out of, heh


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## cacoseraph (Apr 20, 2008)

John Apple said:


> Andrew
> I catch many of these in my house , no problems with undiagnosed bites yet:?
> If you would like some I'll catch them for ya. I see them and usually leave them alone or feed them to my green huntsman spiders.
> I am also looking for laeta for a project if ya see any


i am looking for laeta too!
if i ever find some i will for sure keep you in mind


as for C. inclusums... i will be willing to do a little trading to get them! i need a good amount (like 10+) cuz generally  it is hard to get things to bite you and if i end accidnentily squishinga few to death i don't want me little ~demonstration to be over. plus i want to culture both species, i think they are pretty nice looking and enjoy having the "dangerous" species


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## John Apple (Apr 21, 2008)

cacoseraph said:


> i am looking for laeta too!
> if i ever find some i will for sure keep you in mind
> 
> 
> as for C. inclusums... i will be willing to do a little trading to get them! i need a good amount (like 10+) cuz generally  it is hard to get things to bite you and if i end accidnentily squishinga few to death i don't want me little ~demonstration to be over. plus i want to culture both species, i think they are pretty nice looking and enjoy having the "dangerous" species


Starting today I will keep all I see buddy


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## Venom (Apr 21, 2008)

Just don't test the L.laeta's on yourself, please? We don't want to see you suddently stop posting...lol


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## cacoseraph (Apr 21, 2008)

the effects of L laeta are pretty well understood so there would be no need to test them further. plus, they are like 8x as massive as L. reclusa and have much more aggressive venom... so i feel NO need to get bit by this species!

i might not even hand collect them.... though i for sort of forgotten how to catch thigns with tools by now =P


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## buthus (Apr 22, 2008)

> i am looking for laeta too!
> if i ever find some i will for sure keep you in mind


I would love to have these IDd proper, but I will venture to say these are L.laeta.  I have 1 recently matured male and a few nice n' huge fems.  Maybe we can make some more ...well, thats the wishful plan anyway.   







The boy wont stand still for pics.. he caused a quick shirt removal/mirror search.  I think he's ready to leave the cup, find a girl and do the nasty.


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## Venom (Apr 22, 2008)

Buthus, can you get a close-up of the female's carapace?


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## buthus (Apr 22, 2008)

Venom said:


> Buthus, can you get a close-up of the female's carapace?


Yep, ok...ill stop screwin round and get these documented proper ...asaic.


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## Cursed Lemon (Apr 26, 2008)

OTwolfe said:


> My apartment has yellow sac spiders ( Cheiracanthium inclusum), or so it seems from searching the internet. I find one generally monthly, wandering around on the walls or ceiling. I've heard conflicting reports about their bites. Are these spiders actually dangerous, or is it mostly overblown?  I don't want to spray or call an exterminator, as I have T's. Any way to discourage them from living with me, other than lots of obsessive-compulsive cleaning? THank you!


Hello, fellow Michigander. 

Sac spiders do have a pretty nasty bite (all debates aside), but you really don't have to worry about them very much. They're mostly nocturnal, and are very well-behaved. They tend to scale the corners of ceilings/walls, and mostly just sit in the same place for a long while. I've been around them my entire life and never had a run-in.


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## Nich (Apr 26, 2008)

*Hmm....*

I just googled them, kind of perturbed now....lol. I i can catch some Ill send them tou you Caco, as I intentinolly let those live in my apt as they eat the random bugs. I see afew of those every week at my spot. I have nver had a bad spider bite. Sometimes of the year I see some everyday on the walls.....:evil:


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## jynxxxedangel (May 4, 2008)

*Yellow Sac bites*

I personally have been bitten by this spider, on countless occasions! I've actually caught the little boogers crawling away from the scene of the crime a few times (usually while I'm groggy and half-asleep-- they tend to bite me in bed)! 

The result usually is a very sore, boil-like wound, with two definite punctures visible. I tend to have flu-like symptoms for a day or so from these guys, not to mention a tingly aching feeling in the afflicted area. I am also VERY allergic to bee stings, and centipede bites, so it could just be my body chemistry that causes such a reaction..

I really have a dislike of them, for obvious reasons! I often wonder why they are so inclined to bite humans, especially unprovoked?

This is the ONLY spider I remove on sight when I see them in the house! 

P.S. This pic SUCKS, but it's the only one I have of a Yellow Sac Spider dwelling in my abode. This one happens to be hiding out in its silk cocoon; therefore, the blurriness.


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## Malhavoc's (May 5, 2008)

I've been bitten by a few Sacs up here in can, and caco you know me  the extent of their bites are soft red welts, usualy like infected zits.. just slightly oversized, very painful if agrivated, and usualy take up to a week to heal! however. i find bites are very rare. usualy when a spider crawls somewhere he shouldn't such as the bend in my elbow, and gets squished. 

 the silk "caccoons" are nifty little abodes where they retreat into, and their damn fast when you spook them out of them, usualy crawling in the corners of your ceiling and wall. it makes me wonder just how high they go in the wild, up in trees etc. usualy i find them in coiled leaves in the wild highest I've cought yet was a good 11 feet elevation from the ground.


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## John Apple (May 5, 2008)

It all depends on the bite as to if your gonna be sick or not , develope a oozing sore or not.
You can have a heavy or a light bite, be hurt or not.
The simple fact is this ....the bites from guys can have adverse after effects.
They seem to be a lot of them this year more than others for some reason.
I caught two today and probably catch at least that many a day in my house.
In all the years I have been here non [so far] of my kids have been bitten.
The spiders are soft, secretive and usually die being squished before having the chance to bite


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