# Grammostola Pulchra Pricing



## Desert Rose (Jun 2, 2007)

Around how much would a _G. pulchra_ cost for a spiderling, and how much for a sub adult. What would it cost in a store and what would it cost at an expo. Can anybody give me an average price? 

I am dying to get one, but I heard they were costly.


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## Talkenlate04 (Jun 2, 2007)

Well there was a batch being sold I think by Southerspiderworks for 40 each as slings. Sub adults spike up into the 100-175+ range, females are even more. They will come down as soon as we can get those stubborn things to reproduce. 
If you are lucky and find them at a show so long as its not 60+ for a slings id take it.


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## Taceas (Jun 2, 2007)

They're for sale occasionally in the US, although it took me over a year to find any for sale. 

I just bought 4 slings from Southern Spider Works for around $30 each, although I think they're now sold out. Some adults or sub-adults I've seen advertised have been in the $150-300 range depending on size and sex.


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## Shayna (Jun 2, 2007)

I just got one for 60 CDN.


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## Becky (Jun 2, 2007)

In the UK spiderlings cost about £10


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## Drachenjager (Jun 2, 2007)

Shayna said:


> I just got one for 60 CDN.


hmm thats about 30 USD i think


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## Nitibus (Jun 2, 2007)

Drachenjager said:


> hmm thats about 30 USD i think


It more like $55.20. No peso's here my American friend. If you guys would stop invading other countries your money might be worth more...

I just bought a G pulchra for $ 45.00 CDN ( $ 41.40 US )

Reactions: Funny 3


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## P. Novak (Jun 2, 2007)

I bought 3 G.pulchra from SSW not to long ago as well. I'm pretty sure the prices they had em at could have been higher if they wanted to, but yeah the reason G.pulchra's market price is so high is because they don't reproduce so easily in captivity. 

I would say $50 average for slings, $150 average for subadults, and $225 average for females.


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## WyvernsLair (Jun 2, 2007)

Novak said:


> I would say $50 average for slings, $150 average for subadults, and $225 average for females.



Sigh.. and I can so remember the long lost days when I could get a decent size sling for only $19 and an adult female for $100.  Prices have increased around 150% in the past few years.


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## Drachenjager (Jun 2, 2007)

Nitibus said:


> It more like $55.20. No peso's here my American friend. If you guys would stop invading other countries your money might be worth more...
> 
> I just bought a G pulchra for $ 45.00 CDN ( $ 41.40 US )



last time i sent money to Canada i sent 30 and they got almost 50 lol


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## Drachenjager (Jun 2, 2007)

well they are too ugly to be worth that (crossing fingers that the price goes down so he can grab a few up before people realize it was a ploy)

Reactions: Like 1


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## phil jones (Jun 2, 2007)

where can i get one in the u.k for £10phil


Becky said:


> In the UK spiderlings cost about £10


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## Taceas (Jun 2, 2007)

If they're so hard to breed (I was under the impression _Grammostola_'s were relatively easy to due the frequency _G. aureostriata_ and _G. rosea_ are given away as freebies) why are they always imported from Europe in the masses? Is there some environmental condition in Europe we don't have here in the US? Do _G. pulchra_'s just adore a German accent?


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## P. Novak (Jun 2, 2007)

Taceas said:


> If they're so hard to breed (I was under the impression _Grammostola_'s were relatively easy to due the frequency _G. aureostriata_ and _G. rosea_ are given away as freebies) why are they always imported from Europe in the masses? Is there some environmental condition in Europe we don't have here in the US? Do _G. pulchra_'s just adore a German accent?


I wouldn't say they were hard per sai, just stubborn. European breeders always do better then us Americans for some reason.


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## Norsken (Jun 3, 2007)

Hi, just bought my sub adult Pulchra female for 400Norwegian(it's like $65) a month ago, she has molted an is now like 10-11 cm.













I also read somewhere that you have to lower the temperature to 57-59 fahrenheit after you breed them to get the female to produce an sack....


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## Elaine (Jun 3, 2007)

phil jones said:


> where can i get one in the u.k for £10phil


The spider shop had some slings recently for £9.99 each but sold out within a couple of days. I managed to get 2 before they were all snapped up. 

Elaine


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## ratz00 (Jun 5, 2007)

I have 2 pulchras right now. I bought my female sub-adult for like 150$. I was luckier with my male which was much larger but for only 60$.
I have two mature females coming in July which I both got for 137$ each. I hope to be able to breed them soon. They're my fave T's and plan to have a lot of them, lol... 

Male







Female


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## Snipes (Jun 5, 2007)

Are G. aureostriata easier to get a sac from? Why are they so numerous in comparison to pulchra? Are aureostriatas "newer" than pulchras?


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## lunixweb (Jun 5, 2007)

Very nice T Norsken congrats, and your pulchras are nice too Ratz... I saw some slings here in Europe around 10-15 sterling pounds (25-30 usd :?  more or less)


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## Spoodergirl (Sep 4, 2017)

Desert Rose said:


> Around how much would a _G. pulchra_ cost for a spiderling, and how much for a sub adult. What would it cost in a store and what would it cost at an expo. Can anybody give me an average price?
> 
> I am dying to get one, but I heard they were costly.


I just got a sub adult female for $115 and a juvie male for $50.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Walker253 (Sep 4, 2017)

The earlier information is 10 years old. Nice pick up though. Love the G pulchra


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## efmp1987 (Sep 5, 2017)

Luckily snatched up a juvie 6 days after looking for one. Took a gazillion outbound emails


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## Debbie Mcclure (Oct 22, 2017)

I am in need of a Brazilian black, avicularia purpurea but can't seem to find any in stock online. Does anyone have any idea where I can purchase these beautiful animals?? Reasonably priced??

I would also like a pink zebra beauty


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## RemyZee (Oct 22, 2017)

Debbie Mcclure said:


> I would also like a pink zebra beauty


I believe Fear Not Tarantulas has all three species.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Debbie Mcclure (Oct 22, 2017)

RemyZee said:


> I believe Fear Not Tarantulas has all three species.


Ok. Ty. I saw the eunthlus sp red but I believe they were sold out of the other two


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## RemyZee (Oct 22, 2017)

Debbie Mcclure said:


> Ok. Ty. I saw the eunthlus sp red but I believe they were sold out of the other two


They just got pulchra in yesterday. You may have to contact them directly to see if they have anymore.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Debbie Mcclure (Oct 22, 2017)

RemyZee said:


> They just got pulchra in yesterday. You may have to contact them directly to see if they have anymore.


Ok, thank you


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## efmp1987 (Oct 23, 2017)

LOL pulchra selling out like hot cakes

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Debbie Mcclure (Oct 23, 2017)

efmp1987 said:


> LOL pulchra selling out like hot cakes


I can see why. They're a beautiful species


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## efmp1987 (Oct 23, 2017)

Debbie Mcclure said:


> I can see why. They're a beautiful species


They are! Keepers who own them also subject them to bountiful feeding lol. A skinny pulchra just doesn't look right

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Debbie Mcclure (Oct 23, 2017)

efmp1987 said:


> They are! Keepers who own them also subject them to bountiful feeding lol. A skinny pulchra just doesn't look right


Tbh, I don't think any T looks right skinny, lol. I am a new owner. I try to get my tiny little baby to eat but she runs from the food every time I put live food in with her. If it lands on her she freaks out. If I kill it for her she ignores it. I thought they would eat more than she does. He abdomen is pretty big tho, bigger than when I got her and it's kinda dark.She just rarely eats, smh. I feed her fruit flies. I have to have more soon. I'm addicted, lol


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## efmp1987 (Oct 23, 2017)

Debbie Mcclure said:


> Tbh, I don't think any T looks right skinny, lol. I am a new owner. I try to get my tiny little baby to eat but she runs from the food every time I put live food in with her. If it lands on her she freaks out. If I kill it for her she ignores it. I thought they would eat more than she does. He abdomen is pretty big tho, bigger than when I got her and it's kinda dark.She just rarely eats, smh. I feed her fruit flies. I have to have more soon. I'm addicted, lol



Probably gorged. Mines frightened as hell of feeders when full, but when shes not full, it takes 3 trips to the shop to get her fat


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## Debbie Mcclure (Oct 23, 2017)

efmp1987 said:


> Probably gorged. Mines frightened as hell of feeders when full, but when shes not full, it takes 3 trips to the shop to get her fat


Lmbo, that's to funny. She won't touch a cricket, ever. You're right, it's like they're scared to death of the feeders. I had a feeder get loose from the tweezers yesterday and somehow ended up on my finger. I was trying to knock it off and it just wouldn't go so I shook my finger and it landed on her and you would've thot the devil was after her. Last time she ate was Tuesday, I believe it was. It's comical to watch tho, lol


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## efmp1987 (Oct 23, 2017)

Debbie Mcclure said:


> Lmbo, that's to funny. She won't touch a cricket, ever. You're right, it's like they're scared to death of the feeders. I had a feeder get loose from the tweezers yesterday and somehow ended up on my finger. I was trying to knock it off and it just wouldn't go so I shook my finger and it landed on her and you would've thot the devil was after her. Last time she ate was Tuesday, I believe it was. It's comical to watch tho, lol


They are an absolutely gorgeous species. Enjoy! If full, let it be. Give it 2 days. Their is a limit to what they can take in lol. I like them when they raise their booties for no apparent reason. Lol


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## Debbie Mcclure (Oct 23, 2017)

Right now I jus have a bracypelma Smithi but I plan to get quite a few more. I love to watch them walk. They are so grateful. I believe that's really overlooked alot. You have a blessed evening. Ty for responding to me


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## SingaporeB (Oct 26, 2017)

Debbie Mcclure said:


> I am in need of a Brazilian black, avicularia purpurea but can't seem to find any in stock online. Does anyone have any idea where I can purchase these beautiful animals?? Reasonably priced??


Marbach expo in Germany this weekend has everything you've ever heard of at reasonable prices.

<edit>

Too bad for us we live over here.

Reactions: Dislike 1 | Lollipop 1


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## Debbie Mcclure (Oct 26, 2017)

SingaporeB said:


> Marbach expo in Germany this weekend has everything you've ever heard of at reasonable prices.
> 
> <edit>
> 
> Too bad for us we live over here.


Ikr?? And  I've heard other countries can't ship is us without permits nor can we them. Ty for the link. I will check it out and do some wishful thinking


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## SingaporeB (Oct 26, 2017)

Debbie Mcclure said:


> Ikr?? And  I've heard other countries can't ship is us without permits nor can we them. Ty for the link. I will check it out and do some wishful thinking


There are at least two "flippers" in the classifieds here, people who have spiders shipped to their door from over there and then resell them immediately for twice what they paid. There are also two regulars from overseas who have been in the classifieds for many years selling to here and who even have reviews on this site, so ........


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## MetalMan2004 (Oct 26, 2017)

SingaporeB said:


> There are at least two "flippers" in the classifieds here, people who have spiders shipped to their door from over there and then resell them immediately for twice what they paid. There are also two regulars from overseas who have been in the classifieds for many years selling to here and who even have reviews on this site, so ........


And they either have the proper permits or they are doing it illegally...

Reactions: Agree 2 | Disagree 1


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## SingaporeB (Oct 26, 2017)

MetalMan2004 said:


> And they either have the proper permits or they are doing it illegally...


Pirate Bay is up and running.

Downloaders got permits?

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## MetalMan2004 (Oct 26, 2017)

SingaporeB said:


> Pirate Bay is up and running.
> 
> Downloaders got permits?


The potential consequences are much higher with illegally importing and exporting non-native and internationally protected species than downloading a bunk movie.  With both, some get caught and some don’t.  If you want to do it go ahead, just don’t complain if you get caught.


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## Debbie Mcclure (Oct 26, 2017)

SingaporeB said:


> There are at least two "flippers" in the classifieds here, people who have spiders shipped to their door from over there and then resell them immediately for twice what they paid. There are also two regulars from overseas who have been in the classifieds for many years selling to here and who even have reviews on this site, so ........


Oh really?? I am sorry. I did not know that. Thnx for the info as well. I'll try to find them. I am very new to this hobby and have been looking for better ways to obtain  these animals. I wish they had shows here like they do in different parts of the world. That would help to. Even the pet shops around where I live do not carry them. Again, thank you


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## SingaporeB (Oct 26, 2017)

Debbie Mcclure said:


> Oh really?? I am sorry. I did not know that. Thnx for the info as well. I'll try to find them. I am very new to this hobby and have been looking for better ways to obtain  these animals. I wish they had shows here like they do in different parts of the world. That would help to. Even the pet shops around where I live do not carry them. Again, thank you


Look at this display by Spiderstore.de (Germany). I just attended the Hamburg, Pennsylvania expo on October 21, 2017 and three tarantula dealers were there: Netbug, Arachnoiden and Kamel Spiders. Together those three did not equal the display of Spiderstore.de. The difference between the spider hobby in the USA vs Europe is one of magnitude. It's the difference between a 7/11 store and a Wal-Mart.

Reactions: Dislike 1 | Funny 2


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## Debbie Mcclure (Oct 26, 2017)

SingaporeB said:


> Look at this display by Spiderstore.de (Germany). I just attended the Hamburg, Pennsylvania expo on October 21, 2017 and three tarantula dealers were there: Netbug, Arachnoiden and Kamel Spiders. Together those three did not equal the display of Spiderstore.de. The difference between the spider hobby in the USA vs Europe is one of magnitude. It's the difference between a 7/11 store and a Wal-Mart.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have to say I agree,lol. I am subscribed to quite a few YouTubers and have enjoyed the expos they attend. I have to say I am jealous, lol. We have a few really good reputable dealers here but some species are extremely limited. Plus where I'm new to the hobby I have yet to learn all my buying options..


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## SingaporeB (Oct 27, 2017)

Debbie Mcclure said:


> I have to say I agree,lol. I am subscribed to quite a few YouTubers and have enjoyed the expos they attend. I have to say I am jealous, lol. We have a few really good reputable dealers here but some species are extremely limited. Plus where I'm new to the hobby I have yet to learn all my buying options..


Are you using the Chrome browser? That will translate into English for you. Europeans have no difficulty communicating with English speakers. Explore the Euro world of spiders, it's very interesting.


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## Debbie Mcclure (Oct 27, 2017)

SingaporeB said:


> Are you using the Chrome browser? That will translate into English for you. Europeans have no difficulty communicating with English speakers. Explore the Euro world of spiders, it's very interesting.


Ok, I'll try that. Tysm


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## Angel Minkov (Oct 27, 2017)

SingaporeB said:


> Pirate Bay is up and running.
> 
> Downloaders got permits?


That has got to be the dumbest thing I've read on this forum lol

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Sad 1


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## Debbie Mcclure (Oct 27, 2017)

Angel Minkov said:


> That has got to be the dumbest thing I've read on this forum lol


What are you referring to??


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## MetalMan2004 (Oct 27, 2017)

Debbie Mcclure said:


> What are you referring to??


I believe Angel Minkov is referring to the bit quoted in his post where @SingaporeB suggested that its okay to import inverts without permits because people download stuff off of pirate bay....

My suggestion would be to continue to watch the stuff for sale on this forum and check the major online US based dealers.  One will pop up eventually and it will be a lot cheaper than the potential thousands and jailtime importing without permits will cost.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Debbie Mcclure (Oct 28, 2017)

MetalMan2004 said:


> I believe Angel Minkov is referring to the bit quoted in his post where @SingaporeB suggested that its okay to import inverts without permits because people download stuff off of pirate bay....
> 
> My suggestion would be to continue to watch the stuff for sale on this forum and check the major online US based dealers.  One will pop up eventually and it will be a lot cheaper than the potential thousands and jailtime importing without permits will cost.


Ok, ty Metalman. I been looking on here to. No, you're right. Not worth going to jail for..I agree 100%


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## Angel Minkov (Oct 29, 2017)

You won't go to jail for buying a sling off of a seller, who illegally exported/imported gravid females or sacs. There is no way for them to prove it. Nevertheless, its wrong and should not be supported.

Reactions: Like 2


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## MetalMan2004 (Oct 29, 2017)

Angel Minkov said:


> You won't go to jail for buying a sling off of a seller, who illegally exported/imported gravid females or sacs. There is no way for them to prove it. Nevertheless, its wrong and should not be supported.


No one suggested that was the case.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## SingaporeB (Oct 29, 2017)

Debbie Mcclure said:


> Ok, ty Metalman. I been looking on here to. No, you're right. Not worth going to jail for..I agree 100%


No one ever went to jail or got fined for doing that. Read the reviews for SARNAC and Spidersworld.EU on this site.

I'm well read on Paul Becker, Ken the Bug Guy and the Koppler fellow from Germany if anyone wants to go there with me. That is 100% different than this subject, no relation whatsoever.

Ken ratted on Paul (both dealers in huge shipments over and over) and Paul snitched/informed on Koppler. Got nothing to do with individual collectors.

Really, really sick of the scare mongers ruining everyone's life.



Angel Minkov said:


> That has got to be the dumbest thing I've read on this forum lol


You haven't read much then.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## MetalMan2004 (Oct 29, 2017)

SingaporeB said:


> Really, really sick of the scare mongers ruining everyone's life.


This comment confuses me.  If simple comments on a forum ruined your life then you got bigger fish to fry

Reactions: Funny 1 | Sad 1


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## Arachnopets (Oct 30, 2017)

*ADMIN NOTE: *I feel this needs a reminder ..

From the Classifieds rules: "It is the responsibility of the buyer and seller to know the laws of their respective countries regarding the import/export of the goods they are dealing in. (In most cases on this site, arachnids or other "arachnopets".) For those members residing in the United States, it is ILLEGAL to import or export without the appropriate permits. If the person you are dealing with has the appropriate permits for their country, that has NO bearing on the fact that YOU must ALSO have the appropriate permits in the U.S. "Brown Boxing"* is not only illegal, it's stupid. If you're caught, the least of your worries will be the impounding of the "Brown Box" and the worst could be some hefty fines as well as jail time." 

In addition, it is helping to put another nail in the coffin of what is left of our hobby. Is being selfish that important to anyone that they are willing to risk our hobby, or what's left of it? If you do not think it contributes to destroying our hobby, then you are all mistaken. I wonder what will these selfish people do when the hobby is banned outright and then there will be nothing left to import/export? Because if you think that at that time the risk is simply a fine, then you have another thing coming.

From the Terms and Service part of our rules: "You agree to not use the Service to submit or link to any Content which is defamatory, abusive, hateful, threatening, spam or spam-like, likely to offend, contains adult or objectionable content, contains personal information of others, risks copyright infringement, *encourages unlawful activity*, or otherwise violates any laws." This means that any discussion encouraging  anything illegal on this site is a direct violation of our rules, terms and service. Risking a possible suspension, if not outright ban from the site in it's entirety. If anyone notices any discussions of the sort, please report it to us. All reports are confidential.

P.S. - Any and all discussion of seller + item + price = classifieds ad is strictly prohibited in the discussion forums as well. Classifieds posts can ONLY be posted in the classifieds section.

Thanks,

Debby

Reactions: Like 2 | Disagree 1 | Informative 1 | Love 1 | Award 2


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## MetalMan2004 (Oct 30, 2017)

MetalMan2004 said:


> And they either have the proper permits or they are doing it illegally...


Well, @SingaporeB since you disagree with my statement, what is the third option that I’m missing?  Its pretty cut and dry.  Permits= legal import, no permits= illegal import.

Even the mods left you a nice thorough description.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## dragonfire1577 (Oct 30, 2017)

efmp1987 said:


> They are! Keepers who own them also subject them to bountiful feeding lol. A skinny pulchra just doesn't look right


I would never overfeed my pulchra...
	

		
			
		

		
	




In regards to pricing I think I paid 150 for the little one in the last photo, which would normally be outrageous but she is molt sexed female by a very reputable dealer so worth it imo. I also only handled her as it was the easiest way to re-house with such a calm spider, I normally don't handle Ts.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## SingaporeB (Oct 31, 2017)

MetalMan2004 said:


> One will pop up eventually and it will be a lot cheaper than the potential thousands and jailtime importing without permits will cost.


Produce one example to back this up. Hobbyist arrested/fined for "brown boxing".

ONE example.

Reactions: Dislike 1 | Funny 1


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## Venom1080 (Oct 31, 2017)

SingaporeB said:


> Produce one example to back this up. Hobbyist arrested/fined for "brown boxing".
> 
> ONE example.


One brown boxing example?

How about petcenterusa? A popular dealer who only recently went out of business for something unrelated.

Huge thread on it, I'm sure you could find it.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## SingaporeB (Oct 31, 2017)

Venom1080 said:


> One brown boxing example?
> 
> How about petcenterusa? A popular dealer who only recently went out of business for something unrelated.
> 
> Huge thread on it, I'm sure you could find it.


No sir. I already addressed that.

I said: "Hobbyist" arrested/fined for brown boxing.

Paul Becker was a huge dealer in the USA who was rated off by Ken The Bug Guy.

Try again.

HOBBYIST

Reactions: Dislike 1 | Disagree 2


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## Venom1080 (Oct 31, 2017)

SingaporeB said:


> No sir. I already addressed that.
> 
> I said: "Hobbyist" arrested/fined for brown boxing.
> 
> ...


Why does it matter?

It's not a different thing. Same practice and packaging. 

@SingaporeB  explain yourself then.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 1


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## Arachnopets (Oct 31, 2017)

USFW use hobbyists to reel in the big fish. If I remember right, there were several hobbyists that ended up as collateral damage in the Paul Becker fiasco. Maybe they cut deals, maybe they didn't. There also have been many hobbyists caught over the years. Don't recall every single name. Go do some research and find them. The information is out there ...

Bottom line is, whether you are a dealer or hobbyist, illegal is still illegal.

@pocock1899 Maybe you can help shed some light on this subject matter? 

Debby

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Informative 1


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## MetalMan2004 (Oct 31, 2017)

SingaporeB said:


> Produce one example to back this up. Hobbyist arrested/fined for "brown boxing".
> 
> ONE example.


Good to hear first-hand the perspective of someone who’s moral compass consists of “can I get caught?” vs “its wrong and illegal so I probably shouldn’t do it.”  I wish you all the luck in the world.  With your outlook on life you’re going to need it...

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2 | Disagree 1


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## miss moxie (Oct 31, 2017)

MetalMan2004 said:


> Good to hear first-hand the perspective of someone who’s moral compass consists of “can I get caught?” vs “its wrong and illegal so I probably shouldn’t do it.”  I wish you all the luck in the world.  With your outlook on life you’re going to need it...


Did you know that meth is ONLY illegal in the states where you get caught with it? It's legal until then!



Debbie Mcclure said:


> Ok, ty Metalman. I been looking on here to. No, you're right. Not worth going to jail for..I agree 100%


Just wait for sales. I'm sure there will be at least ONE "black friday" sale coming up. I can feel the itch in my bank account. There might also be Christmas sales or New Years sales even. I've seen'em before, in the past.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## SingaporeB (Oct 31, 2017)

Venom1080 said:


> Why does it matter?
> 
> It's not a different thing. Same practice and packaging.


No sir, you and others here have threatened posters here with prosecution in criminal court for "brown boxing" as a hobbyist. I asked you for one example to back up your declarative statements and scaremongering which border on terroristic threats.

I'm still waiting for that one example to back up your abusive tone and posts.



Arachnopets said:


> USFW use hobbyists to reel in the big fish. If I remember right, there were several hobbyists that ended up as collateral damage in the Paul Becker fiasco. Maybe they cut deals, maybe they didn't. There also have been many hobbyists caught over the years. Don't recall every single name. Go do some research and find them. The information is out there ...
> 
> Bottom line is, whether you are a dealer or hobbyist, illegal is still illegal.
> 
> ...


It's really easy. If what you say is true there are multiple links to back up the arrests and prosecutions.

I have not broken your rules either. You need to figure that out. Nothing that you mentioned in the open or in private applies to what I have posted.

English is my first language and I don't need a refresher course.

I will never exhibit any deference to price gougers and I will often find it impossible to restrain myself from blasting them in public. $475 for a female g pulchra is outrageous and that absurd price does not even include shipping which would bring it to at least $525-


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## Angel Minkov (Oct 31, 2017)

How about you move your lazy ass and do as Debby suggested and do some research?

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Venom1080 (Oct 31, 2017)

SingaporeB said:


> No sir, you and others here have threatened posters here with prosecution in criminal court for "brown boxing" as a hobbyist. I asked you for one example to back up your declarative statements and scaremongering which border on terroristic threats.
> 
> I'm still waiting for that one example to back up your abusive tone and posts.
> 
> ...


My abusive tone and posts!? Are we reading the same stuff? 

Do some research for yourself. It's illegal. If you get caught there is consequences, I'm sure you know how the law works. 

And no, I don't recall any threads besides the one I mentioned where hobbyists got caught.

If I was a newb on here that ignored advice and got a heavy fine, I wouldn't come back to brag about it. I'm sure it's happened before.

So what are you saying? It's okay to brown box? It doesn't matter?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## SingaporeB (Oct 31, 2017)

Venom1080 said:


> My abusive tone and posts!? Are we reading the same stuff?
> 
> Do some research for yourself. It's illegal. If you get caught there is consequences, I'm sure you know how the law works.
> 
> ...


For anyone familiar with the English language I've been very clear. Ken The Bug Guy and Paul Becker were not hobbyists, they were dealers. Paul Becker was the largest volume dealer of tarantulas in the USA. Becker was importing a large percentage of his stock without permits. Becker was not pinched by the postal authorities or Federal Wildlife, he was rated out by his competitor Ken The Bug Guy.

The subject is hobbyists, the people who purchased spiders for their collection from people like Becker and Ken.

I'm still waiting for you or someone else to post an example of someone in the USA arrested/prosecuted for purchasing spiders through the mail without permits.

I feel like I'm in an argument with a religious fanatic. I know not to demand evidence for the existence of their God. You are demanding that I accept your belief that such prosecutions have occurred.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Venom1080 (Oct 31, 2017)

SingaporeB said:


> For anyone familiar with the English language I've been very clear. Ken The Bug Guy and Paul Becker were not hobbyists, they were dealers. Paul Becker was the largest volume dealer of tarantulas in the USA. Becker was importing a large percentage of his stock without permits. Becker was not pinched by the postal authorities or Federal Wildlife, he was rated out by his competitor Ken The Bug Guy.
> 
> The subject is hobbyists, the people who purchased spiders for their collection from people like Becker and Ken.
> 
> ...


I
I get it. You just don't believe the law. 

I'm not a fanatic lol.. I'm just saying that this is illegal. And you don't believe me.

See my previous post for my response to the rest.


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## Debbie Mcclure (Oct 31, 2017)

I've found one but it's a sling. Only Euthlus sp red I can find are slings and the avics as well. I think I live in the wrong town, lol. Thnx for everyone's help. I wasn't about to go ordering things without a permit. It's like I've read and heard often, stuff like that hurts the hobby and may even eventually shut it down period and I wouldn't want that to happen. Thnx and God bless you all

Reactions: Like 1


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## MetalMan2004 (Oct 31, 2017)

Debbie Mcclure said:


> I've found one but it's a sling. Only Euthlus sp red I can find are slings and the avics as well. I think I live in the wrong town, lol. Thnx for everyone's help. I wasn't about to go ordering things without a permit. It's like I've read and heard often, stuff like that hurts the hobby and may even eventually shut it down period and I wouldn't want that to happen. Thnx and God bless you all


Good luck to ya!!! Sorry we hijacked your thread...



SingaporeB said:


> For anyone familiar with the English language I've been very clear. Ken The Bug Guy and Paul Becker were not hobbyists, they were dealers. Paul Becker was the largest volume dealer of tarantulas in the USA. Becker was importing a large percentage of his stock without permits. Becker was not pinched by the postal authorities or Federal Wildlife, he was rated out by his competitor Ken The Bug Guy.
> 
> The subject is hobbyists, the people who purchased spiders for their collection from people like Becker and Ken.
> 
> I'm still waiting for you or someone else to post an example of someone in the USA arrested/prosecuted for purchasing spiders through the mail without permits.


Since We’re playing the symantics game, no one said purchasing spiders through the mail without permits was illegal.  They said that importing from another country without the permits is illegal.

I did you a favor and found a government document that discusses the personal pet side of it.  I found plenty on commercial importing but I feel like we have that bit covered at this point.

“The following categories of wildlife and fish are subject to certain prohibitions, restrictions, permit and quarantine requirements:   Mammals, birds, amphibians, fish, insects, crustaceans, mollusks, reptiles, coral, and other invertebrates. “

https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/assets/documents/2016-Aug/pets-wildlife-unitedstates.pdf


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## Arachnopets (Oct 31, 2017)

MetalMan2004 said:


> Good luck to ya!!! Sorry we hijacked your thread...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just to clarify here, there are NO permits that you can get that would make receiving or sending arachnids/invertebrates through the mail legal. It is 100% ILLEGAL to send/receive any arachnid/invertebrate via the USPS. Fed-ex and UPS are privately owned, therefore it is just against their policy. Since the USPS is still Federal, it is a Federal violation and considered a criminal act. One type of penalty can be jail time. And they don't care if you are considered a dealer or hobbyist. They don't care if you play the "I wasn't aware" card either. Just as a physicians office tells you that it is your responsibility to know what your insurance covers, it is your responsibility to know the laws. Ignorance is not an excuse.

Hope that helped to clarify the legalities a bit.

Debby

Reactions: Like 2


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## Chris LXXIX (Oct 31, 2017)

SingaporeB said:


> No one ever went to jail or got fined for doing that. Read the reviews for SARNAC and Spidersworld.EU on this site.


They (those that ship) risk nothing, or almost nothing, IMO. Easy for those people.

I believe that only the U.S customer, if spotted, will end in serious trouble.

Consider this... do you think is reasonable for, don't know, some kind of strange department 'I don't know the name' of USA or even the FBI to check outside the homeland for random people selling T's that maybe not even exists in the first place? No, of course.

Example (and I repeat example ): if I ship a _Theraphosidae _to you, living in the U.S, and the parcel ends spotted by the customs, which address do you think they will check, for ring the doorbell at, between an authentic U.S ones with a real name/surname/etc and another (of utmost 100% existence ) with written over something like:

Mario Rossi (aka John Doe, in Italy)
Via Ferrari 187 - same
Roma (Italy)

lol

P.S

Remember the old motto: what 'never' happened in 50 years can happen in 5 minutes.

The fact that you aren't aware of someone busted doesn't means that something like that never happened: no one can know when 'luck' will end.

*Edit*:

Another thing involving those discussions about this (illegal) subject which isn't a little detail, btw, is that the so called 'brown boxing' crime isn't related to T's only but to every animal/invert/whatever that _enters _in the nation in a 'shady' way.

Do you think that if I try to smuggle a monkey, a tiger etc I wouldn't be jailed? Yeah it's the same thing eh, basically, only the animals differs.

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## SingaporeB (Nov 1, 2017)

MetalMan2004 said:


> Good luck to ya!!! Sorry we hijacked your thread...
> 
> 
> 
> Since *We’re playing the symantics game*, no one said purchasing spiders through the mail without permits was illegal.  They said that importing from another country without the permits is illegal.


No sir,* you* are playing a semantics game and you are making straw man arguments.

I'll be extremely clear for you (everyone else reading this thread knows exactly what is being discussed already):

The USA has been a nation for over 200 years. In the past two hundred years the number of spider keeping hobbyists arrested/fined for importing spiders without a permit from a foreign nation is.......ZERO

Zero arrests and zero prosecutions. Zero fines. Zero is the operative numeral.

Links to news stories or arrests/prosecutions on USDOJ government sites that you can produce to dispute what I've just written?

*Z E R O*

Have a nice day!



Arachnopets said:


> Just to clarify here, there are NO permits that you can get that would make receiving or sending arachnids/invertebrates through the mail legal. *It is 100% ILLEGAL to send/receive any arachnid/invertebrate via the USPS*. Fed-ex and UPS are privately owned, therefore it is just against their policy. Since the USPS is still Federal, it is a Federal violation and considered a criminal act. One type of penalty can be jail time. And they don't care if you are considered a dealer or hobbyist. They don't care if you play the "I wasn't aware" card either. Just as a physicians office tells you that it is your responsibility to know what your insurance covers, it is your responsibility to know the laws. Ignorance is not an excuse.
> 
> Hope that helped to clarify the legalities a bit.
> 
> Debby


Yes it is and the number of people prosecuted for doing this?

ZERO

Number of tarantula dealers in the USA who ignore this and ship tarantulas across the USA via the United States Postal Service?

Too many to count. The classifieds here are loaded with them Many of them have web sites that are prominent in the hobby and have been so for many years.

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## MetalMan2004 (Nov 1, 2017)

SingaporeB said:


> Number of tarantula dealers in the USA who ignore this and ship tarantulas across the USA via the United States Postal Service?
> 
> Too many to count. The classifieds here are loaded with them Many of them have web sites that are prominent in the hobby and have been so for many years.


I feel like you are getting the terms “illegal” and “didn’t get prosecuted” mixed up.  I do at least agree with you that plenty of people ship USPS.  There are only so many ways to say it.  Illegal is illegal whether they are prosecuted or not.  Most people equate “illegal” with “its wrong and I probably shouldn’t do it” although apparently you don’t fall into this crowd.  

I’m still not sure what your point is.... I am impressed with your commitment to this though.

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## Arachnopets (Nov 1, 2017)

He's basically going with the "no cop no crime" theory. He seems to be demanding proof, yet supplies none of his own, with extreme definitive statements. I was not aware that he knew every single US citizen to make such a statement that zero have been fined, in the past 200 years nonetheless. Just because someone was not caught (or cut a deal to avoid jail and fines), does not make it any less illegal. Or in simpler terms, against the law. We can only inform everyone what the legalities are. We can not force anyone to actually follow the law. In addition, people NEED to know how this will affect the hobby they claim to love so much. You are not just taking a risk for yourselves, you are risking the hobby, as a whole, for everyone else. Why? Are you really that selfish? How anyone can claim they love this hobby, and in the same breath not care about the laws they will be breaking and in turn risking the hobby being banned outright, is just mind boggling to me.

There is no getting through to him. I suggest we all move on now. 

Debby

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## efmp1987 (Nov 1, 2017)

Did someone say Grammostola pulchra? Every time I hear pulchra I get drooly, have seizures, hyperactive, go rabid and bite at everyone who dare go near!

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Chris LXXIX (Nov 1, 2017)

SingaporeB said:


> No sir,* you* are playing a semantics game and you are making straw man arguments.
> 
> I'll be extremely clear for you (everyone else reading this thread knows exactly what is being discussed already):
> 
> ...


What about Sven Koppler, then? 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...pler-arrested-sending-tarantulas-US-post.html

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...iling-tarantulas-to-u-s-idUSTRE6B25BX20101203

http://news.sky.com/story/tarantula-smuggling-suspect-arrested-in-us-10490548

Yeah, he was a die harder "T's delivered to the U.S" man and quite frankly, a bit too much 'comfy' (how stupid someone can be? After delivering so much T's, illegally, in the U.S since forever, well, the U.S would be the last nation I would love to be, lol).

Yes, ok. We can assume a lot of things like someone maybe '_talked_'. Or maybe, honestly, so much T's are a bit more harder to 'hide'. Or, maybe, his 'luck' simply ended.... but anyway, my question is, does this count as a proof, for you?

Btw I wish to point out the absolutely no fantasy at all  names (in the U.S just like in Italy) given for this kind of operations.

'Operation Spiderman', wow, 10/10 for the originality ah ah

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## Spoodergirl (Nov 1, 2017)

Desert Rose said:


> Around how much would a _G. pulchra_ cost for a spiderling, and how much for a sub adult. What would it cost in a store and what would it cost at an expo. Can anybody give me an average price?
> 
> I am dying to get one, but I heard they were costly.


I just got a 2 1/2" female for $185...


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## Angel Minkov (Nov 1, 2017)

SinagporeB seems to think that if he ignores Debby's posts his arguments somehow still hold any value.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Andrea82 (Nov 2, 2017)

@SingaporeB 
Just because you're not caught doesn't make what you're doing legal. 

'everybody does it so it's fine' doesn't hold up in court either.
The people who download from TPB are doing that illegally, no matter if it's two or two million people. 

And let's for a moment not think about fines or jailtime... You know what happens to the spiders you imported illegally? 
They are killed. 

Not worth it for me. And encouraging new keepers to do things illegally is putting them at risk for repercussions. All that only because you want to be right and don't care about laws and rules.

Reactions: Agree 4


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## SingaporeB (Nov 3, 2017)

Chris LXXIX said:


> What about *Sven Koppler*, then?


I've already mentioned this guy. He is apart of the Ken The Bug Guy/Paul Becker case. Ken (US dealer) rated on Paul (US dealer) and Paul flipped on Sven Koppler.

There are ZERO cases of a hobbyist importing spiders via the mail and being arrested/fined by US authorities.

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## Venom1080 (Nov 3, 2017)

SingaporeB said:


> I've already mentioned this guy. He is apart of the Ken The Bug Guy/Paul Becker case. Ken (US dealer) rated on Paul (US dealer) and Paul flipped on Sven Koppler.
> 
> There are ZERO cases of a hobbyist importing spiders via the mail and being arrested/fined by US authorities.


I imagine you'll try your best to be the first then.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## miss moxie (Nov 3, 2017)

Venom1080 said:


> I imagine you'll try your best to be the first then.


We all have goals.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## pocock1899 (Nov 3, 2017)

SingaporeB said:


> I've already mentioned this guy. He is apart of the Ken The Bug Guy/Paul Becker case. Ken (US dealer) rated on Paul (US dealer) and Paul flipped on Sven Koppler.
> 
> There are ZERO cases of a hobbyist importing spiders via the mail and being arrested/fined by US authorities.


Well, actually you are wrong. Laughably so, on many things. Do you always assume that just because you don't know about something, ...that it doesn't exist?

Obviously, you don't know the facts of the Sven Koppler case. You don't even seem to know what was published in the news media.
Yes, hobbyists have been fined and their shipments seized. 

Why would you think that so many people have broken the law for so long, and been completely ignored by law enforcement? USFWS Wildlife Inspectors and Special Agents, along with WSPS Postal Inspectors are just such fanboys of the tarantula hobby, that they have given it carte blanche? Really??

Apparently, your degree in Google University is inadequate for real fact finding. In order to really know about the kinds of cases you're referring to, ones that were not published in mainstream media (which is like 99%), you need to get the facts directly from the parties involved. Very few have done jail time, but more than a few have lost shipments and paid fines. 

Additionally, they all got a criminal record to show off on their next job interview!! 

If you aren't acquainted with someone involved in the cases, you're probably going to have to submit a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) to the USFWS or DOI to get the information. Even at that, if it's part of a larger, ongoing investigation (which it usually is), you may not get access to the information.
All of law enforcement prefers to use lower level individuals to get to the upper echelons. The Koppler case was a perfect example. There are others. 

I very much doubt that the lower level folks are going to be posting on Arachnoboards or Facebook, how they took a deal and turned in their friends and acquaintances ...just to save their own butts. 

And I've no doubt, you'll want me to name names and supply examples. Too bad. 
I'm not throwing people under the bus for your edification, especially since you've been such a know-it-all jerk. If you really want to know the facts, do your own homework.
I think most people know who is who.  

I think people who brown box or import illegally SHOULD get caught. I work in import/export, right alongside USFWS. I'm always glad to see them doing their job. Most of the smuggled animals I see are dead or dying. 
No sympathy here for anyone who thinks they are above the law, who looks at animals just as dollar signs and is more concerned with making money than taking care of their livestock.

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## SingaporeB (Nov 5, 2017)

pocock1899 said:


> Obviously, you don't know the facts of the Sven Koppler case. You don't even seem to know what was published in the news media.
> 
> *And I've no doubt, you'll want me to name names and supply examples. Too bad.*
> .


Yeah, I do know the facts about the Ken The Bug Guy/Paul Becker/Sven Koppler case. Those details were - probably still are - on this site and I read through the whole thing including court documents.

No one can produce even one example of someone who was popped for importing tarantulas for their personal collection because it has never happened.

Also, me thinks you and others in this thread doth protest too much.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Chris LXXIX (Nov 5, 2017)

SingaporeB said:


> I've already mentioned this guy. He is apart of the Ken The Bug Guy/Paul Becker case. Ken (US dealer) rated on Paul (US dealer) and Paul flipped on Sven Koppler.
> 
> There are ZERO cases of a hobbyist importing spiders via the mail and being arrested/fined by US authorities.


My question for you is this.

Q: He (Sven Koppler) was, or wasn't, arrested? This and only this is important, not the outcome of all of that and how he eventually managed to deal with the situation. For which reason he was arrested, if what he was doing wasn't so much of a big deal?

You know, where I think you are in error is in the fact that _seems _(_seems_) that no one, here, is able to find a valid source for that, for someone ended in trouble (no matter with which kind of punishment, now... ain't an expert but I think no one will give death penalty to someone for that) for importing, illegally, spiders or whatever invert in the nation.

The fact that no one so far provided a legit source, however, doesn't means that never happened something like that... who knows if, in Montana (ah ah Cartman btw!) someone was spotted and ended to pay $1000 or else as a fine for that an helluva of time ago?

Those kind of 'news' are garbage, doesn't hit the main dinner time TV zombie news, but mostly a crappy dorky newspaper readed by 5 people 

Another thing to consider (which can help your point of view on this subject ah ah) is this: they (the system) need to *prove *everything, not an easy task like seems when we talking, sometimes.

Example: what if, this morning, I decide to ship a _Theraphosidae _(without saying nothing) to a *real *U.S name/surname/address I know? Don't view this as idiocy and consider only this bizarre example alone:

I pay everything, from the spider to the shipping. Everything. Obviously, using (on my part) a freaking false identity.
The parcel end spotted by the U.S customs. Obviously the one that risk is the American "customer", for that the sender doesn't exist. But said he/she American 'customer' ordered nothing, and wasn't even aware of that, at the end.
No one can prove he/she payed/ordered that, no? Am I wrong?

= parcel confiscated and probably destroyed, bye bye spider, and nothing to the innocent and unaware U.S recipient that probably no one will ever call.

The same can happens if (another pretty bizarre example) an American citizen ship to an Italian real address those kinda Cold Steel (CA) or United Cutlery (GA) 'combat/war ready' swords (*illegal *as hell in Italy unless someone doesn't have the permit for keep weapons). Well they arrive here, the custom block the whole parcel, and... nothing to the Italian man! Because no one can prove with legit facts and evidence that he ordered those swords. There isn't the 'smoking gun' for take actions.

Combined with the fact that, let's be honest, to control (in a proper way) every parcel would be impossible, no matter the technology used. Impossible, unless we want to reduce to zero the unemployement rate paying people only for that, since senders expects to view their parcels delivered as soon as possible, always.


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## pocock1899 (Nov 6, 2017)

SingaporeB said:


> Yeah, I do know the facts about the Ken The Bug Guy/Paul Becker/Sven Koppler case. Those details were - probably still are - on this site and I read through the whole thing including court documents.
> 
> No one can produce even one example of someone who was popped for importing tarantulas for their personal collection because it has never happened.
> 
> Also, me thinks you and others in this thread doth protest too much.


LOL!!! So you think the best source of "facts" is an internet forum? Really?
And, ...just because YOU have never seen/read about someone busted for smuggling, ...that means it has never, ever happened.
Are you serious?

Since you like quotes, how about one from Euripides?
"Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish.""

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## Chris LXXIX (Nov 6, 2017)

I stand with what I've said.

I think that (mostly) happened/happens this:

- The (U.S) customers parcels aren't spotted by the U.S customs, because to control (and well) everything is out of question. Thus they arrive, DOA or not inside.

- But if happens (you never know, at the end) inside the parcel there's only a foreign language (lol) papers, and one (or two, or else) _Theraphosidae _well packed. Nothing else. No 'official' documentation, PayPal (yeah...) receipt, nothing. Only normal papers, packaging material, and the evil spooder/s 

There isn't therefore the 'smoking gun', a real connection between 'point A' (the seller) and 'point B' (the U.S customer). Yeah, in the case of drugs, weapons etc is another story, but I think that with a situation like that, the parcel, simply, end destroyed. 

Without no one knowing nothing.

I think this, in all honesty.

P.S

Despite my (personal) view, just a reminder to the reader: 'brown boxing' is, and remain, *illegal*.


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## Swoop (Nov 6, 2017)

There are 5,000 murders a year in the US.  How many do you hear about?  Maybe a hundred?  

What makes you think someone getting fined or arrested for violating postal regulations is ever going to be sexy enough to beat 'if it bleeds it leads'?  Speeding too much can be a felony but when was the last time you saw an article about a guy going to jail for doing 90 in a school zone?

A lack of evidence is not proof.  We can prove it is against the law, we can prove what happens to importers, we can prove what happens to confiscated animals, we can speculate about the effects on the hobby, but what we can't do is prove it's safe OR dangerous to the hobbyist.

If your argument is "it's probably fine for the hobbyist" in the face of all the other downsides, you don't actually have an argument.

On top of that, think of the repercussions (to the buyer and the hobby) if customs opens up a package with a nasty OW inside and someone gets bit.  Hospitalizing federal agents doesn't do anyone any favors.

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## SingaporeB (Nov 6, 2017)

Swoop said:


> There are 5,000 murders a year in the US.  How many do you hear about?  Maybe a hundred?
> 
> What makes you think someone getting fined or arrested for violating postal regulations is ever going to be sexy enough to beat 'if it bleeds it leads'?  Speeding too much can be a felony but when was the last time you saw an article about a guy going to jail for doing 90 in a school zone?
> .


Yes, all exotic animal story possibilities make the news and are easily searchable years later on the web.

You can bet your your life that no hobbyist in the USA has ever been popped for so-called "brown boxing". If that ever happens you will hear about it on here and the story will be searchable for many, many years, possibly until the end of human existence.


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## Swoop (Nov 6, 2017)

SingaporeB said:


> Yes, all exotic animal story possibilities make the news and are easily searchable years later on the web.


We have bite reports on this forum of people being bitten and hospitalized by 10" old world T's.  How many made the news?  Probably zero.  If you're being sarcastic that would only support my point, so you must be serious.  But if you're serious, you're laughably wrong that a hobbyist going to jail could expect to be a significant (or even insignificant) news story. 

How many people are going to self-report to arachnoboards that they got busted and went to jail smuggling spiders?  Again, probably zero.

You're also ignoring all of the downsides to the T's and other hobbyists and businesses, as if the only important criteria for a decision is how it will affect you.

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## Chris LXXIX (Nov 6, 2017)

Swoop said:


> We have bite reports on this forum of people being bitten and hospitalized by 10" old world T's.  How many made the news?  Probably zero.


Yes, indeed. You are 100% right. This is another huge difference among an helluva of others between my nation (Italy) and USA.

I have a theory for this (could be wrong, uh).

In the U.S, 'you' are the one that, basically, pay for the support/health care/help/whatever received.

In Italy that's completely free, from E.R visits to hospital. Yeah, sure, we pay taxes for mantain that but, for instance, the first tramp of the street (like the Italian counterparts of 'Street Trash' movie) obviously doesn't pay taxes: still he/she receive for free as well the medical help, no matter.

I 100% know that, in the case of bites (due to talking with other keepers, I was never bitten in 25 years by a _Theraphosidae _-- true spider yes lol --) etc *here*, 'you' have to pray that Docs say nothing, because isn't written at all that they would remain silent = next morning in the paper, chances of national TV as well if the system decide that the quite crappy, boring story is enough for deceive, instead of talking about serious stuff


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## SingaporeB (Nov 7, 2017)

Swoop said:


> We have bite reports on this forum of people being bitten and hospitalized by 10" old world T's.  How many made the news?  Probably zero.


1) How many bite reports are fake? Possibly over half. Recently some clown posted a video on the forum of what he claimed was an OBT biting him. Obviously fake yet many people argued with me that it was real so many here are easily fooled.

2) Tarantula bites are never fatal nor do they leave physical damage behind. Do bee stings make the news?

3) Hospitals do not call the media and inform on patients, cops do. Cops always call the media with anything they think might interest them. Cops have even been fired for being paid media sources.

Animal stories are like weather stories, the corporate media loves them. People left on the sidewalk? People evicted from their home? People committing suicide from despair? The corporate media will do most anything to avoid such topics.

Tens of thousands of Americans are killing themselves every year with opioids out of despair and the corporate media went out of their way for many, many years to cover that fact up.

I'm not the one here who needs to get his priorities straight.

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## Swoop (Nov 7, 2017)

You're arguing from ignorance, again.  Ignoring what we do know and basing your conclusion on what we don't know.  

Also, in the same post you claim that cops inform the media and also that cops get punished for informing the media.  

And calling tarantula smuggling an animal story, as if "man arrested for buying a spider" is going to conpete for views with "squirrel can waterski and do basic math" lmao.  I was having a crummy morning but you have lifted my spirits with your shenanigans.

Now git before I tell your parents what a Singapore Blue bite is like.

As for suicides and etc, you're on a tarantula forum dude.  Read the room.

Reactions: Like 2 | Disagree 1


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## SingaporeB (Nov 7, 2017)

Swoop said:


> *You're arguing from ignorance, again*.  Ignoring what we do know and basing your conclusion on what we don't know.
> 
> Also, in the same post you claim that* cops inform the media and also that cops get punished for informing the media.  *
> 
> ...


If I'm ignorant it's the fault of the other posters in this thread. I have from the beginning requested evidence and none of you have provided any. Launching ad hominem attacks spiked with straw man arguments cannot increase anyone's knowledge.

People rob banks and people are punished for robbing banks. Your point is?

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Swoop (Nov 7, 2017)

'Argument from ignorance' means you are basing your argument on what we don't know, instead of on what we know.  You have the same information as any of us.  It's not about you or me being more ignorant of facts than the other, it's that we see bad + unknown and conclude bad.  You see bad + unknown and conclude good.  

An ad hominem would be 'you are stupid, therefore you are wrong.'  If you are wrong to an extent that someone calls you stupid, that's not an ad hominem, it's merely an insult.  

Also, what's the incentive for a cop to tell the media he busted a hobbyist for ordering a spider through the mail?  It's unusual but hardly scandalous.  It's just another example of risk vs. practically no reward.  Lots of risks with smuggling a G. pulchra, not much reward.  Some risk blabbing to the media about arresting someone for smuggling spiders, no reward.  So why are your arguments based on "people will deliberately act against their own interest"?

I don't know why I'm doing this the hard way.

Pro:
1. There is a small chance you can acquire a rare spider with a reasonable cost of time/money

Cons:
1. There is a good chance an international animal smuggler is going to scam you.
2. There is a good chance your spider will die in transit (even reputable domestic dealers rarely offer LAG after 1 or 2 days).
3. There is a high chance your spider will be misidentified in regards to species, gender, size/maturity.
4. There is a small chance your spider will be found and killed by customs.
5. There is a tiny chance your package will be opened and you will be fined/jailed for illegal animal smuggling.

SingaporeB, why are you ignoring all the other potential negative outcomes and only focused on Con #5?

Reactions: Like 1


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## dragonfire1577 (Nov 10, 2017)

You all are treading on thin ice, arguing like that will attract a... sea bear. It's a little known fact they hate people hijacking a thread on arachnoboards and arguing about the same thing for more than one page after both sides made their point even more than they hate playing the clarinet badly, Waving your flashlight back and forth really fast, Stomping the ground (they take it as a challenge), Eating cubed cheese; sliced is safe, wearing a hoop skirt, wearing clown shoes, and wearing a sombrero in a goofy fashion. Y'all had better draw some sea bear circles, it's the only defense against a sea bear attack.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Chris LXXIX (Nov 10, 2017)

SingaporeB said:


> 1) How many bite reports are fake? Possibly over half. Recently some clown posted a video on the forum of what he claimed was an OBT biting him. Obviously fake yet many people argued with me that it was real so many here are easily fooled.
> 
> 2) Tarantula bites are never fatal nor do they leave physical damage behind. Do bee stings make the news?
> 
> 3) Hospitals do not call the media and inform on patients, cops do. Cops always call the media with anything they think might interest them. Cops have even been fired for being paid media sources.


1) While I do agree with you that certain bite reports we can 24/7 easily read here were probably a bit exaggerated, you are wrong about @Shampain88 'OBT' bite. I fail to realize why you don't believe that, considering also that he was a huge reckless handler (Asian 'pedes on the arm etc). Fooled, you said. There's nothing transcendental... only someone that, on pure purpose, pissed off a _P.murinus_ and asked for a bite.

2) 100% correct about T's venom. Bee sting comparison a bit silly. Bees are since forever viewed as 'social accepted' animals for the average, T's aren't. I fail to realize why people doesn't understand this freaking easy concept 

3) In the U.S, probably. Here in Italy, no. Docs can call the cops for everything, if they want: from drugs to whatever. And they can.


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## SingaporeB (Nov 10, 2017)

Chris LXXIX said:


> 1) While I do agree with you that certain bite reports we can 24/7 easily read here were probably a bit exaggerated, you are wrong about @Shampain88 'OBT' bite. I fail to realize why you don't believe that, considering also that he was a huge reckless handler (Asian 'pedes on the arm etc). Fooled, you said. There's nothing transcendental... only someone that, on pure purpose, pissed off a _P.murinus_ and asked for a bite.
> .


One of the most amateurish attempts at faking a bite that anyone could make. There is no bite on camera and the "blood"looks faker than ketchup. That video looks like an obvious joke that was shockingly taken seriously. I can't believe the producer of that video bite imagined that someone would take the video to be real.

Reactions: Dislike 1 | Funny 3


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## Jeffrey Wade (Nov 22, 2019)

I have a 9-year old 14.3 cm adult female coming to me within next two weeks. She was expensive, and I paid a lot for shipping/insurance..total around $400
But she is a beauty. This is a pic taken two weeks ago ( she is housed in Houston at moment finishing a molt)

Reactions: Love 3


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## aarachnid (Nov 22, 2019)

Jeffrey Wade said:


> I have a 9-year old 14.3 cm adult female coming to me within next two weeks. She was expensive, and I paid a lot for shipping/insurance..total around $400
> But she is a beauty. This is a pic taken two weeks ago ( she is housed in Houston at moment finishing a molt)


Super jealous. What a gorgeous T.


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## Vanessa (Nov 22, 2019)

Jeffrey Wade said:


> I have a 9-year old 14.3 cm adult female coming to me within next two weeks. She was expensive, and I paid a lot for shipping/insurance..total around $400
> But she is a beauty. This is a pic taken two weeks ago ( she is housed in Houston at moment finishing a molt)


And worth every... single... penny...

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kitara (Nov 22, 2019)

Vanessa said:


> And worth every... single... penny...


Agreed.   I'm really pretty jealous.  There was a female about that size at the expo and I was SO tempted.  The price was around what you paid.  Maybe $300.  I don't really remember, but outside of my budget.  Still soooo tempted.


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## donniedark0 (Nov 22, 2019)

This thread gives me major anxiety cause it makes me realize how dumb I was for selling my female 4 inch for like $80. Biggest hobby regret EVER.

Reactions: Like 1 | Lollipop 1


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## Arachnophoric (Nov 23, 2019)

donniedark0 said:


> This thread gives me major anxiety cause it makes me realize how dumb I was for selling my female 4 inch for like $80. Biggest hobby regret EVER.


*Woof. *That person got one HELL of a deal.


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## donniedark0 (Nov 23, 2019)

Arachnophoric said:


> *Woof. *That person got one HELL of a deal.


I was not that knowledgeable at the time, and I just figured it was suspect male.


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