# Forest Scorpion Questions



## DELV55 (Oct 15, 2010)

Hey I was wondering a few questions, can someone help me?

1. I have three forest scorpions and in the last week or two I haven't fed them anything and today I open it up and two of my three scorpions are HUGE. Like giant grub with pincers kinda huge. I am posting some attachments, can you guys look to confirm? Two of them are like that, the one that isn't looks like a normal sized one and isn't anywhere as fat. The two are about 4 inches and I hear it can be because of molting but I don't ever recall them get THAT fat?

2. I have 3 emperor scorpions that I wanna add in, about what size would be good to add them in? Like if I have a mixture of sizes, which sizes would be better? I know if one scorpion is too big and one is really small, the small one might be considered prey, but maybe if one is 6 inch and the other is 3, it'll be okay?

3. I'm confused on this post:
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=193597

Why will the mom be less likely to eat the babies then the others? I have two other scorpions in there, is it okay to keep them in there or will it be disastrous? The babies when I get them that is. Would save the trouble since I'm not sure where to put them.

4. I hear when they get like that, it takes one month or so to get babies?


----------



## DELV55 (Oct 15, 2010)

Attachments for first post (forgot)


----------



## BAM1082 (Oct 15, 2010)

Well something is going on lol. 

I have a hard time telling Gravid from Pre-Molt so I cant confirm. 
My "Forest" Spp. all have dark telsons. Ive never had sub-adults, so perhaps it is in pre-molt. 

On the note of "adding in" Emperors... are you saying you want to put them in the same enclouser with your Forest spp ? 
Doing this would be bad... I think it would be carnage, a battle royal.

Hope an expert can ID what is going on with your Scorps.

Bammer


----------



## gromgrom (Oct 15, 2010)

gravid? its stinger is still milky. its a subadult. its going to molt soon, best leave it alone and keep the humidity slightly higher than normal.


----------



## DELV55 (Oct 15, 2010)

Oh so it has to be a full adult in order to be truly gravid? I thought they can become gravid even before hitting adulthood?

I also heard that you can keep these guys with emperor scorpions just fine as long as you feed? That was my whole plan too when I bought 3 tiny baby emperor scorpions. I was planning to wait until they get about 2-3 inches and put them in the tank, too.

?


----------



## DELV55 (Oct 15, 2010)

I was also wondering do I still feed them if they are gravid like that?

In all honesty, I'm alright if they aren't because I don't really know where to put them anyway....heh. So if it's a molt, so be it.


----------



## Stewjoe (Oct 15, 2010)

You can feed it if it's gravid if it will accept food, but remove any crickets immediately if it molts. It's probably not fat since you said its not been eating, unless it eats when you're not looking and you cant count crickets. It could be gravid but it's likely going to molt soon, also if its about to molt it will refuse food.


Edit> They don't need to eat to grow and big and fat to molt, they mostly drunk to swell and shed their exoskeleton.


----------



## Nomadinexile (Oct 15, 2010)

BAM1082 said:


> On the note of "adding in" Emperors... are you saying you want to put them in the same enclouser with your Forest spp ?
> Doing this would be bad... I think it would be carnage, a battle royal.
> Bammer


This is correct.   Without lots of experience, expect a slaughter.   There are ways to co-habitate species, but it is never recommended, always an experiment, and you really, really need to know what you are doing.   



gromgrom said:


> gravid? its stinger is still milky. its a subadult. its going to molt soon, best leave it alone and keep the humidity slightly higher than normal.


I'm not familiar with this species, but I would take Grom's advice on this.   I would expect a molt not a brood.



DELV55 said:


> Oh so it has to be a full adult in order to be truly gravid? I thought they can become gravid even before hitting adulthood?
> 
> I also heard that you can keep these guys with emperor scorpions just fine as long as you feed? That was my whole plan too when I bought 3 tiny baby emperor scorpions. I was planning to wait until they get about 2-3 inches and put them in the tank, too.
> 
> ?


There are some species that can mature at different instars, however, this is the exception not the rule.   They must be mature, and no they can't birth before.   That is simple biology, they need all their parts and hormones to breed.  

Some people have been able to co-habitate these with Imps, however, that is not recommended.   You are asking for trouble.    If you have lots of "extra" scorpions, and want to give it a try assuming you will loose most, then go right ahead.   Just keep us updated for knowledge sake.   But you have to assume you will loose every one in co-habitation, particularly if there are any molts left in them.   



DELV55 said:


> I was also wondering do I still feed them if they are gravid like that?
> 
> In all honesty, I'm alright if they aren't because I don't really know where to put them anyway....heh. So if it's a molt, so be it.


You can still feed during gravid stages.   However, if you are unsure of whether it's gravid or molting, be on the feeders like pbj on bread.   That means watching like a hawk.   Because the minute it's shell cracks to molt, it's food for the feeders.    I would recommend pre-killed during this time if you are unsure, which is the case here. 



Stewjoe said:


> You can feed it if it's gravid if it will accept food, but remove any crickets immediately if it molts. It's probably not fat since you said its not been eating, unless it eats when you're not looking and you cant count crickets. It could be gravid but it's likely going to molt soon, also if its about to molt it will refuse food.
> 
> 
> Edit> They don't need to eat to grow and big and fat to molt, they mostly drunk to swell and shed their exoskeleton.


This.  

And good luck.   Pictures and updates are always welcome here.


----------



## DELV55 (Oct 15, 2010)

How do you know what type of forest scorpions you have?

I was aiming to get Malaysian forest scorpions, any difference? I got the emperor scorpions afterwards because I also read how big and bulky they were (averages over forest scorpions) and I would like some big scorpions to handle.

I know that might stir up a lecturing itch in some of you but I'll be honest and say it. That's why I looked around and a few people said the two species have been kept together without much of an issue, sometimes in petstops (not a good prime example but yeah). 

I'll try to feed my scorpions and see wasup.


----------



## Nomadinexile (Oct 16, 2010)

I won't be able to help I.D. them, others may.    

As for Co-habitating species, particularly these two, it has been done.    I don't know how long it's been done and I don't think it's a good idea.   But like I said last night, if you do it, keep us updated.    :razz:


----------



## signinsimple (Oct 16, 2010)

I've found that Emps and Hets (which I assume is what your forest scorp is) can be kept together when they are adults provided they are very close in size.  The problem with keeping sub-adults together is that, eventually, someone is going to molt and the other species could take advantage of that weakened state.  Emps are known to protect their own when molting.  Not sure about Hets.  

So, if you toss a larger emp in with that little fella you could probably expect it to be an emp lunch when it molts (and possibly before).  I'd wait till it was an adult before crossing streams.


----------



## Michiel (Oct 17, 2010)

The scorpions are juvenile and need to molt. That is why they are fat, nothing special about it. Because they are juvenile, you cannot satisfactory identify them at the moment on species level.

Experimenting with different species in one enclosure may turn out to be a carnage, like already mentioned. You must decide yourself if you want to take the risk!


cheers, Michiel


----------



## H. laoticus (Oct 17, 2010)

I tried emps and hets and it failed (not miserably, but a failure nonetheless).  The emp continually harassed the hets to which it was removed  I'm sure you could get away with it for a while if you give them a large area to play in, but I haven't done anything large scale so I wouldn't know how it'd turn out.


----------



## DELV55 (Oct 17, 2010)

Do "hets" get as long/big as emps do?

That's the reason why I got some baby emperors after getting some 3" juv forests. I wanted a big impressive looking scorpion to play with and I thought you could add them together when the baby emperors grew to be about 3" or so.

When can I sex the scorpions btw?


----------



## Chrome69 (Oct 17, 2010)

DELV55 said:


> Do "hets" get as long/big as emps do?
> When can I sex the scorpions btw?


Hets are almost identical to emps cept they have smoother claws, though emps are known to get a tad larger but nothing really noticeable. You won't know what kind of Het it will be until adulthood since hets are hard to ID (unless it's a longimanus, those are usually easier to pick out). You can sex your scorpion if it's a het or emp at about 4i or 5i, that's when you'll start to see the markings like the tooth on the claw, dent on the claw, body shape, comb shape on the underbelly, etc.


----------



## DELV55 (Oct 17, 2010)

K thanks for the answer! 

I guess I have to research those things a bit more, not sure what instar mines is in. I tried looking at the comb on their underbelly, but it was confusing so maybe if I waited till they matured and get them ID as well.


----------



## DELV55 (Oct 17, 2010)

Btw, scorpions are not like some reptiles in that they continue to grow as long as they live do they?


----------



## Galapoheros (Oct 17, 2010)

DELV55 said:


> How do you know what type of forest scorpions you have?
> 
> I was aiming to get Malaysian forest scorpions, any difference? I got the emperor scorpions afterwards because I also read how big and bulky they were (averages over forest scorpions) and I would like some big scorpions to handle.
> 
> ...



btw, scorpions in the genus Heterometrus are referred to as "forest scorpions" in pet stores, it's not a species name, there are many different species and sizes in case you didn't know.  Many diff species are going to go under the common name of "Malaysian forest scorpions" too, so it's best to use scientific names if you want to know try to get familiar with species.  It's just like when a pet store gets a big black scorpion in, they don't know what it is so they label it "Big Black African Scorpion" but that could mean any decent sized black scorpion from Africa and there are way more diff species in Africa than I know of.  You can google Heterometrus and look at all the diff species if you haven't done that already


----------



## DELV55 (Oct 17, 2010)

Yeah I was checking this page awhile back
http://www.tarantulainc.com/tarantula_inc_015.htm

I was aiming for the H. Spinifer since I hear they get longer than the other forest scorpions, but that might just be me fooling myself on purpose with false baseless information. Well, that and I like their claw shape.


----------



## Galapoheros (Oct 17, 2010)

There is a LOT I don't know, but I think there are some incorrect ID's on that page.  Here's a better page to go to imo.  Examples of Heterometrus are closer to the bottom I think.
http://www.ntnu.no/ub/scorpion-files/gallery.php


----------



## DELV55 (Oct 17, 2010)

Thanks but whats this white stuff near the telson area? I know they go to the bathroom through that area but I never saw it that obvious. What I really mean is...is that normal to be that white right there?

http://www.ntnu.no/ub/scorpion-files/h_spinifer2.jpg


----------



## Galapoheros (Oct 17, 2010)

yeah that's normal


----------



## Michiel (Oct 18, 2010)

DELV55 said:


> Btw, scorpions are not like some reptiles in that they continue to grow as long as they live do they?


No they aren't, scorpions, both males and females have a final molt to adulthood. After this they do not molt anymore.
There are however, very few reports of occaisional exceptions, post-parturition molts......but after the final molt, they do not molt anymore. Stick to that for the moment, and when you learn more about scorpions in time, dig into the matter.


----------



## Chrome69 (Oct 18, 2010)

DELV55 said:


> I was aiming for the H. Spinifer since I hear they get longer than the other forest scorpions, but that might just be me fooling myself on purpose with false baseless information. Well, that and I like their claw shape.


Most `forest` Scorpions you`ll find in pet stores are H. spinifer, with a few H. laoticus and the odd H. longimanus. If you happen to get one that has abnormally long claws (chelae) dont be surprised if its a longimanus, those are the longer ones in the spp.


----------



## rockrox1 (Oct 19, 2010)

it's definitely going to molt... too young to be gravid.


----------

