# Which T has the most potent venom?



## poppaJT (Aug 30, 2010)

Which species has the strongest venom?


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## B8709 (Aug 30, 2010)

H. maculata... P. murinus...some pokies.
I can't say for sure. :?
It'd be old world.


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## Anubis77 (Aug 30, 2010)

I've heard speculation on Harpactirella and Stromatopelma, but don't think it's been substantiated. There's no LD50 for tarantulas from what I know.

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=107118&highlight=venomous


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## spiderworld (Aug 30, 2010)

Ide deff say its one of the old world arborials forsure!
But as to which one, i dont know, maybe another member does.

Hope you get your answer, im keen to know myself


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## Pociemon (Aug 30, 2010)

Here is some;

http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/182_08_180405/isb10564_fm.html

http://www.dbskeptic.com/2008/02/03/spider-bites-are-an-overrated-menace/

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S0036-46652000000100003&script=sci_arttext&tlng=en

http://www.badspiderbites.com/spider-bite.php

http://spiders.ucr.edu/dermatol.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8212049?dopt=Citation

http://homepage3.nifty.com/~hispider/spidervenom.txt

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S1678-91992003000200004

Long time since i read it. But haplopelma should be up there as the worsed.


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## TarantulaHomes (Aug 30, 2010)

Here's some data taken from Escoubas, Pierre & Lachlan Rash. "Tarantulas: eight legged pharmacists and combinatorial chemists." Toxicon 43 (2004): 555-574:

0.1 microliter of crude venom injected intracerebroventricularly (ICV) in mice:

Species - Time to death (min)

Cithariscius crawshayi - 3
Stromatopelma calceatum - 3
Paraphysa sp. - 4
Poecilotheria regalis - 4
Grammostola actaeon - 5
Grammostola rosea - 5
Heteroscodra maculata - 5
Hysterocrates hercules - 5
Theraphosa blondi - 5
Paraphysa scrofa - 6
Pterinochilus murinus - 6
Avicularia urticans - 8
Grammostola pulchra - 8
Selenocosmia lyra - 8
Ceratogyrus meridionalis - 10
Cyclosternum fasciatum - 10
Cyriopagopus paganus - 10
Eucratoscelus constrictus - 10
Haplopelma lividum - 10
Tapinauchenius latipes - 12
Hysterocrates gigas - 15
Megaphobema velvetosoma - 16
Poecilotheria fasciata - 18
Ceratogyrus marshalli - 20
Pamphobeteus antinous - 25
Ceratogyrus brachycephalus - 40
Ephebopus murinus - 45
Brachypelma boehmei - 50
Megaphobema robustum - 50
Aphonopelma anax - 60
Aphonopelma chalcodes - 60
Aphonopelma pallidum - 60
Aphonopelma seemani - 60
Avicularia avicularia - 60
Brachypelma albopilosum - 60
Brachypelma angustum - 60
Brachypelma auratum - 60
Brachypelma emilia - 60
Brachypelma smithi - 60
Brachypelma vagans - 60
Crassicrus lamanai - 60
Lasiodora parahybana - 60
Megaphobema mesomelas - 60
Pamphobeteus vespertinus - 60
Psalmopoeus cambridgei - 60
Tapinauchenius gigas - 60
Vitalius platyomma - 60

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 1 | Informative 1


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## spiderworld (Aug 30, 2010)

Great thanx for that! very interesting

I wouldnt have thought the 2 grammastolas would be up there


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## kylestl (Aug 30, 2010)

TarantulaHomes said:


> Here's some data taken from Escoubas, Pierre & Lachlan Rash. "Tarantulas: eight legged pharmacists and combinatorial chemists." Toxicon 43 (2004): 555-574:
> 
> 0.1 microliter of crude venom injected intracerebroventricularly (ICV) in mice:
> 
> ...


Roseas venom kills before p murinus venom?


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## Londoner (Aug 30, 2010)

kylestl said:


> Roseas venom kills before p murinus venom?


In mice, yes it would appear so. That doesn't mean a rosea bite would be worse than an OBT bite in a human. The venom affects different organisms in different ways.

Judging by bite reports (not been bitten by an OW yet...phew!), I'd guess at Stromatopelma, Pterinochilus or certain Poecilotheria sp.

The problem with bite reports however, is that nobody can say exactly how much venom was injected to cause the subsequent symptoms, but it can give a general overview on potency.


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## codykrr (Aug 30, 2010)

Tarantula venom tested on mice is very inaccurate.  As many tarantulas have developed venom to specifically take down small rodents.  therefore this is very subjective. Also the reason there is little to no LD50 info on the potency.

worst venom is also pretty subjective. It would really depend on the person's reaction to it.

That being said, some of the worst REPORTED bites I have come across was from:

S. calceatum. and P. subfusca.


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## TarantulaHomes (Aug 30, 2010)

I agree, this info has nothing to do with effects on humans, but I think it's pretty accurate, since most probably mice were from the same batch (may be wrong on that) and equal amount of venom was injected. With humans you never know how much venom the T delivered and whether delivered at all. Just my thoughts.


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## codykrr (Aug 30, 2010)

^ It has been deemed inaccurate due to the fact not all tarantulas will experience rodents in the wild. Therefore their venom never adapted to killing rodents.   This would mean some Genus/species will make a mouse die faster than that of a tarantula who's venom never evolved to target rodents.  Which is why scientists do not utilize the LD50 system on tarantulas.  

This discussion has been beaten with a stick here many times before.  To truly find out what tarantula has the "most potent" venom to humans, we would need a human test subject.  plain and simple.  

Either way, Im willing to say it would be S. calceatum, or a P. subfusca.  The P. subfusca made a guy go into coma off and on for weeks.


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## Sleazoid (Aug 30, 2010)

Somewhere I heard that P. regalis was the most venomous of all Pokies. It might have been on here in the bite reports, but I am not sure where so I can not provide a source.


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## TarantulaHomes (Aug 30, 2010)

codykrr said:


> ^ It has been deemed inaccurate due to the fact not all tarantulas will experience rodents in the wild. Therefore their venom never adapted to killing rodents.   This would mean some Genus/species will make a mouse die faster than that of a tarantula who's venom never evolved to target rodents.  Which is why scientists do not utilize the LD50 system on tarantulas.
> 
> This discussion has been beaten with a stick here many times before.  To truly find out what tarantula has the "most potent" venom to humans, we would need a human test subject.  plain and simple.
> 
> Either way, Im willing to say it would be S. calceatum, or a P. subfusca.  The P. subfusca made a guy go into coma off and on for weeks.


Codykrr, you're right, but the same can be said about their effect on humans, since not all the tarantulas in the wild have a privilege to bite humans and adapt their venom.
I'm not implying that the results of the experiment can be blindly applied to humans, but at least it gives us some basic idea on the venom potency. 

Here's an excerpt from wikipedia on laboratory mice:

"Mice are common experimental animals in biology and psychology; primarily because they are mammals, are relatively easy to maintain and handle, reproduce quickly, and *share a high degree of homology with humans*. The mouse genome has been sequenced, and *many mouse genes have human homologues*."


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## Versi*JP*Color (Aug 30, 2010)

An avic avic;P


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## codykrr (Aug 30, 2010)

TarantulaHomes said:


> Codykrr, you're right, but the same can be said about their effect on humans, since not all the tarantulas in the wild have a privilege to bite humans and adapt their venom.


No, they dont, now depending on what the EXACT question is IE- "what is the most potent tarantula venom to humans".  This is what most people mean when they ask this simple question.  But since tarantulas have not adapted there venom to kill humans make us an excellent test subject. Though to be accurate, we would need several test subjects who take administered doses to know how bad the effects vary for each person.



TarantulaHomes said:


> I'm not implying that the results of the experiment can be blindly applied to humans, but at least it gives us some basic idea on the venom potency.


Again, no it does not.   this is apples to oranges.  This would be like trying to poison a dog with something that ONLY affects humans and then basing how poisonous it is to birds on that....

Simply put- "SOME" species of tarantula have developed venom that is more potent to small rodents(mice, rats..ect) some have developed venom to affect birds.  now the one who's venom affects birds, but not mice(as bad) could be 5x more potent to a human subject as the one who affects mice.  but yet, by your standards, the one who's venom affect mice(like it is intended too) will kill it quicker giving it a false LD50 reading.  make sense?  therefore making people assume it will be more potent to humans because it killed the mouse quicker.  when its venom is designed to kill mice.



TarantulaHomes said:


> Here's an excerpt from wikipedia on laboratory mice:
> 
> "Mice are common experimental animals in biology and psychology; primarily because they are mammals, are relatively easy to maintain and handle, reproduce quickly, and *share a high degree of homology with humans*. The mouse genome has been sequenced, and *many mouse genes have human homologues*."


this is very true.  Also this is why we have the LD50 scale.  they use it for snakes, scorpions and other things that have venom which does not specifically target the mouse, then apply that to human potency. This is not far off for a lot of things they do test them for. (scorpions mainly come to mind) 

Plain and simple. LD50 readings or tests are ruled pointless with tarantulas.  google- Tarantula LD50 and you will see many debates on the subject.  many from the ATS, BTS and here.


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## codykrr (Aug 30, 2010)

Chocoboizm said:


> Somewhere I heard that P. regalis was the most venomous of all Pokies. It might have been on here in the bite reports, but I am not sure where so I can not provide a source.


Keep reading...because of the dozens of pokie bite reports I have read, the P. ornata(robc bite) and the P. subfusca bite in which the man went in and out of coma seemed to be way worse than the P. regalis reports(robc report included)  

Go ask Rob, Im sure he can give you a better answer since he was bitten by ornata and regalis.


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## Pociemon (Aug 30, 2010)

I have recently been to thailand where i was among the local population. They have eaten tarantulas for many years, but unfortunately there is not much haplopelma lividum left there, but they told me they got very sick when they got bit by them. Just a few years ago they did live in holes on the rice fields and they had several bites from them. So i am sure haplopelma are no fun to mess with. I guess the bigger chinise haplopelmas are even more bad.


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## Hanes (Aug 30, 2010)

It's not only venom potency but the amount of venom a t could physically inject, for example: the only poecilotheria bite is so bad could possibly be because they are so big, whereas some of the smaller species could have marginally more potent venom but because the t can't inject massive amounts it may not be recognized as abnormally potent.


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## kenzie (Aug 30, 2010)

The reason that pokies are definitely thought to be the most venomous is because their venom is a neuro-toxin.  It will make your heart rate speed up, which can cause a lot of things. Such as, heart attack.  We should also take into consideration that a tarantula bite will affect people differently.  People with low immune systems will have a harder time.  People with allergies to things like bees and others will have a harder time.  So, basically we probably can't know how it would effect us personally until it happens.  I'm not going to volunteer.  I'm not that curious.


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## Draiman (Aug 30, 2010)

kenzie said:


> The reason that pokies are definitely thought to be the most venomous is because their venom is a neuro-toxin.


Actually, all spiders (the ones that have venom, at least) have neurotoxic venom.



kenzie said:


> It will make your heart rate speed up.


Who told you this? :?


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## codykrr (Aug 30, 2010)

I was under the impression that The "if your not allergic to bee's you will be alright" saying was just that, a saying.

I was told that tarantulas lack peptides that cause "allergic reactions".


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## codykrr (Aug 30, 2010)

kenzie said:


> The reason that pokies are definitely thought to be the most venomous is because their venom is a neuro-toxin.  It will make your heart rate speed up, which can cause a lot of things. Such as, heart attack.  We should also take into consideration that a tarantula bite will affect people differently.  People with low immune systems will have a harder time.  People with allergies to things like bees and others will have a harder time.  So, basically we probably can't know how it would effect us personally until it happens.  I'm not going to volunteer.  I'm not that curious.


I am curious where you get your source of info.  As I doubt the Immune system plays much(if any role) in the passing of venom.  I think it would be safe to say kids and older people would be more of a risk mainly due to size and other health issues not related to immunity. 

Also, I believe respiratory failure would happen before a heart attack.  While the venom does usually speed heart rate up, it usually seems to affect muscles around the chest, arms, legs and abdomen.  usually resulting in heavy or short breathing, and muscle spasms throughout the body.


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## DemonAsh (Aug 30, 2010)

From what I've read on here, (I think Moltar posted something a while back, but I can't find it) the u-hairs are a more likely suspect for causing allergic reactions than the  venom.


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## TarantulaHomes (Aug 30, 2010)

codykrr said:


> this is apples to oranges.  This would be like trying to poison a dog with something that ONLY affects humans and then basing how poisonous it is to birds on that....


The thing is that birds, dogs and humans don't have much in common as far as homology is concerned. Humans and mice do.

Another thing is that tarantulas do not possess enough venom to kill a human being and what we read in bite reports is only "side" effects. We can't know how potent the venom is simply because no experiments involving injecting a lethal dose of tarantula venom in humans have ever been or will be conducted. And it might very well be that lethal dose of Grammostola rosea venom could kill a human faster than the same dose of Haplopelma lividum venom.


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## codykrr (Aug 30, 2010)

From what I've read on here, (I think Moltar posted something a while back, but I can't find it) the u-hairs are a more likely suspect for causing allergic reactions than the venom. 

^ that is what I have read too. Also I 100% agree with that.  Out of all the bite reports how many have you read stating anything about an "allergic reaction?"  because I for one have never read any stating that.

But on the other hand, I myself have experience the affects of allergic reactions from Urticating bristles with many species.(the worst being Brachypelma smithi)

I personally believe this has something to do with the tarantulas coating the Urticating bristles with saliva. But this is just a personal theory.


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## T-Harry (Aug 30, 2010)

According to an article by Tobias Dörr (*Dörr, T.* (2005): Die Gifte der Vogelspinnen (Theraphosidae), _Arachne_ 10 (4), 10-24), the T venoms with the worst effects on humans are of:
1. Poecilotheria regalis, P. ornata, P. fasciata, P. pederseni
2. Ornithoctonus huwena
3. Stromatopelma calceatum
4. Brachypelma emilia
He founded his statements on information gained from Gabriel, Schmidt, Songping, Röpke and Fritsche.


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## codykrr (Aug 30, 2010)

Tarantula homes.  you are completely missing my point.

YES! Mice and humans are similar. This is why we use the LD50 chart to compare venom from snakes, scorpions...ect.

BUT!  WE cannot use mice to test LD50 readings with tarantulas simply because SOME tarantulas possess venom specifically designed to kill mice. There for, MICE cannot be used to compare venom affects of humans.  

again. MICE are not and cannot accurately be used to determine the potency of tarantula venom ON HUMANS.


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## codykrr (Aug 30, 2010)

T-Harry said:


> According to an article by Tobias Dörr (*Dörr, T.* (2005): Die Gifte der Vogelspinnen (Theraphosidae), _Arachne_ 10 (4), 10-24), the T venoms with the worst effects on humans are of:
> 1. Poecilotheria regalis, P. ornata, P. fasciata, P. pederseni
> 2. Ornithoctonus huwena
> 3. Stromatopelma calceatum
> ...



Does it say how many human test subject were used to average out these affects?

because I highly doubt Brachypelma emilia would be before species such as: P. murinus, H. lividium..and many more, species which are know to have rather nasty venom.  

Maybe this was from a personal experience.  

Which again, would be why one would need several human test subjects with administered doses and basically average out the affects.

Still this would not be 100% accurate.


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## TarantulaHomes (Aug 30, 2010)

codykrr said:


> WE cannot use mice to test LD50 readings with tarantulas simply because SOME tarantulas possess venom specifically designed to kill mice. There for, MICE cannot be used to compare venom affects of humans.


Codykrr, i don't mean to be rude, but the term "specifically designed" doesn't say anything to me.

As I see it, some tarantulas' venom may contain a specific element that effects mice (rodents) in particular. Can you point me to the source of that information please? Once I know what element or combination of elements it is, I will do a research on its effect on humans and will publish it here.


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## T-Harry (Aug 30, 2010)

codykrr said:


> Does it say how many human test subject were used to average out these affects?
> 
> because I highly doubt Brachypelma emilia would be before species such as: P. murinus, H. lividium..and many more, species which are know to have rather nasty venom.
> 
> ...


Dörr wrote in that article that he made his ranking depending on the fact whether a bite showes systemic effects or not.
Systemic means that the whole organism is affected by symptoms of the venom instead of only certain parts of it (local effects).
According to the information he gathered from the people stated above (no personal experiences or experiments were used for his ranking) there are reports of pain and cramps all over the body after an incident with B. emilia.
He didn't elaborate further since the article basically is about the bio-chemistry of T venom and not on first instance about which T is most dangerous for humans.


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## Sleazoid (Aug 30, 2010)

codykrr said:


> Keep reading...because of the dozens of pokie bite reports I have read, the P. ornata(robc bite) and the P. subfusca bite in which the man went in and out of coma seemed to be way worse than the P. regalis reports(robc report included)
> 
> Go ask Rob, Im sure he can give you a better answer since he was bitten by ornata and regalis.


Sorry, unlike most people I do not put Robc on a pedestal. I read all the bite reports. I said I am not sure where I heard it, on here or on venomlist or somewhere else. But I did hear that it was the most potent. I didn't say I was correct, just saying I heard it.


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## codykrr (Aug 30, 2010)

Trust me, I am not putting Rob on a "pedestal" 

Just using him as a reference.


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## codykrr (Aug 30, 2010)

TarantulaHomes said:


> Codykrr, i don't mean to be rude, but the term "specifically designed" doesn't say anything to me.
> 
> As I see it, some tarantulas' venom may contain a specific element that effects mice (rodents) in particular. Can you point me to the source of that information please? Once I know what element or combination of elements it is, I will do a research on its effect on humans and will publish it here.


There have been many publications on this subject.  A few are on ATS, BTS and the Australian tarantula society web pages.

(Baerg 1922,1925,1929,1938b and 1958) also the info I cite is in "the tarantula keepers guide"  pg 145 and pg 146.

I can scan the outlined artical if needed.


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## RichRollin (Aug 30, 2010)

From what I've always read, the worst T venoms for humans are, in no order:

Poecilotheria (genus as a whole)
Stromatopelma calceatum
Heteroscodra maculata

and to a lesser extent Haplopelma's in general, in particular schmidti and hainanum.

Anyone else agree with that, more or less?


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## malevolentrobot (Aug 30, 2010)

RichRollin said:


> From what I've always read, the worst T venoms for humans are, in no order:
> 
> Poecilotheria (genus as a whole)
> Stromatopelma calceatum
> ...


this too is what i've seen as i guess what you would call "common knowlege" here on the boards, as well as other bite report lists.  but hey, i'd love to find out if the truth is something different (just not personally test or find it out, if you know what i mean ).

i think i also remember seeing variances in pokie venom somewhere, but i can't site reference right now for the life of me. so i guess its off to do some thread hunting for me now...


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## codykrr (Aug 30, 2010)

That is the "jist" of how I would say it goes.

But the again Citharischius is supposed to be pretty bad. I actually read somewhere that there are peptides within its venom makeup that actually cause severe hallucinations.

That being said.  Tarantula venom is VERY understudied, and not well known.

Scientist just recently started finding GOOD uses for Tarantula venom. specifically from G. rosea.  They have found it can help with muscular dystrophy.   

Either way I know I took a rather nasty bite from a 4 to 4.5 inch female P. murinus and it was rather unpleasant.   But it did not deter me from completing a 3 hour drive to St. Louis to see my mom.  I did have the profuse sweating, increased heart rate, and muscle spasms on my left arm and leg for about 2 days.  I also had quite a headache if I remember correctly, but that could have been from driving.

But to ask the general question "what tarantula has the most potent venom"  is like I said VERY subjective.


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## Venom (Aug 30, 2010)

The standard wisdom is that Stromatopelma calceatum bites are the worst tarantulas have to offer, due to hte fact that there is an established prevalence in Stromatopelma sp. bites of cardiac disturbances. Irregular cardiac rhythms are a common occurence. No recorded bites have been fatal, but even Poecilotheria spp. do not usually interfere with the heart. That said, Poecilotheria bites often have severe neuro-muscular spasms, sometimes dizziness and labored breathing, stiffness of joints and some other neurological unpleasantness, but generally they come short of actually affecting any vital systems. Stromatopelma frequently _do _affect vital systems, just --as far as we can tell-- never yet fatally.

The top genera to be careful of, in my judgment, would be:

Stromatopelma
Poecilotheria (esp. P. ornata, P. rufilata )
Heteroscodra 
Selenotypus
Selenocosmia
Phlogius
Haplopelma (H. schmidti esp. )


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## gumby (Aug 31, 2010)

codykrr said:


> ^ It has been deemed inaccurate due to the fact not all tarantulas will experience rodents in the wild. Therefore their venom never adapted to killing rodents.   This would mean some Genus/species will make a mouse die faster than that of a tarantula who's venom never evolved to target rodents.  Which is why scientists do not utilize the LD50 system on tarantulas.
> 
> This discussion has been beaten with a stick here many times before.  To truly find out what tarantula has the "most potent" venom to humans, we would need a human test subject.  plain and simple.
> 
> Either way, Im willing to say it would be S. calceatum, or a P. subfusca.  The P. subfusca made a guy go into coma off and on for weeks.


I agree with the above but have to say i have a feeling that if we were to test more of the spacific Aussie Ts that are found in different genus that id put money on one of them coming up with the "most potent venom". Id also like to know in regaurds to the tests if the tarantulas were all near the same size or near their adault size? i feel that if you tested all at 3" that some would not have their adault venom. Also it would be interesting to know if they were all female because I wonder if there might be a difference in venom potentcy based on the T being male or female. I have a feeling there may be a difference because males have a much shorter life and do not reach the same size.


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## Hanes (Aug 31, 2010)

Who knows the most potent tarantula venom could belong to an undiscovered species


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## GartenSpinnen (Aug 31, 2010)

I've heard among the worst are from a dwarf species that I cannot remember for the life of me. They are not common in the hobby... if at all?

Then Stromatopelma calceatum has some interesting documentation show systemic reactions in people. H. maculata has some interesting documentation as well, where people have received some nasty bites from fairly small slings much smaller than what would normally cause those reactions in other species.

Then the Poecilotheria sp. seem to have quite a bite of variability to the bite reports of those who have been bitten. They range from being just painful, to being significant enough for people to seek emergency treatment due to pain, muscle cramps, profuse sweating, and other symptoms.

Pterinochilus sp., especially P. murinus and P. lugardi have some interesting bite reports attributed to them. I have heard that P. lugardi is worse, but who really knows and how are you going to accurately compare them having so many different variables to each bite incidence from individual to individual?

Haplopelma sp. are reportedly bad as well. I would think from what I have read they are similar in strength to Pterinochilus sp.

Then there is the Australian tarantulas. Those have been shown to have quite nasty bites and are generally less heard about due to not as many people keeping them in captivity compared to other more popular species. I have heard that their bite can cause a dog to die, and is worse compared to many others. 

The bottom line is that the LD50 rates DO NOT apply accurately in many areas with tarantulas and that it is widely a gray area that needs to be studied better and more accurately. The majority of information out there revolves around hearsay obtained from word of mouth and bite reports.... which are not exactly credible for accuracy...


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## DreadLobster (Sep 1, 2010)

TarantulaHomes said:


> Here's some data taken from Escoubas, Pierre & Lachlan Rash. "Tarantulas: eight legged pharmacists and combinatorial chemists." Toxicon 43 (2004): 555-574:
> 
> 0.1 microliter of crude venom injected intracerebroventricularly (ICV) in mice:
> 
> ...


Many mice have died to bring us this information.

Ha. But seriously, I don't think this is a debate that will be settled any time soon, as people have pointed out, the effects on mice are probably much different than the effects on humans. 

As far as I've always read around here, Pokies and C. crawshayi are pretty bad, and H. mac's and S. calceatum both have a really bad rep but I haven't seen too many actual bite reports from anyone on this site to verify that.


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## DreadLobster (Sep 1, 2010)

After reading this whole debate, I'm thinking what the OP meant was, "Which T would be the least fun to get bit by."

And in that case, all this talk about peptides and lethal doses... I say just go read through the bite reports. I'm guessing most of them aren't fun.


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## Arachno Dano (Jan 22, 2012)

::





codykrr said:


> Also, I believe respiratory failure would happen before a heart attack.  While the venom does usually speed heart rate up, it usually seems to affect muscles around the chest, arms, legs and abdomen.  usually resulting in heavy or short breathing, and muscle spasms throughout the body.


I wonder what that would do to somebody with asthma? ::

~Dano


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## Anonymity82 (Jan 22, 2012)

TarantulaHomes said:


> Here's some data taken from Escoubas, Pierre & Lachlan Rash. "Tarantulas: eight legged pharmacists and combinatorial chemists." Toxicon 43 (2004): 555-574:
> 
> 0.1 microliter of crude venom injected intracerebroventricularly (ICV) in mice:
> 
> ...


Good information but as to which tarantula is the venomous in humans, which is what I'm assuming the OP meant, these statistics are irrelevant. Mice are affected much differently than humans are by tarantula venom.

---------- Post added 01-22-2012 at 02:05 AM ----------




codykrr said:


> Tarantula homes.  you are completely missing my point.
> 
> YES! Mice and humans are similar. This is why we use the LD50 chart to compare venom from snakes, scorpions...ect.
> 
> ...


+1  Where's Pikaia?!

---------- Post added 01-22-2012 at 02:09 AM ----------




codykrr said:


> Either way, Im willing to say it would be S. calceatum, or a P. subfusca.  The P. subfusca made a guy go into coma off and on for weeks.


Note to self: Don't get P. subfusca!


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## Necromion (Jan 23, 2012)

I remember the article in the bite reports for S. calceatum which states that the author had experianced a case where a man was bitten around the neck area, and if not for the immediate intervention of the author the man would have died as a direct result of the swelling causing his wind pipe to swell shut. and that for sometime after the man didn't return to full health.


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## Stan Schultz (Jan 23, 2012)

njnolan1 said:


> ... +1  Where's Pikaia?!


Out in the west Texas desert *catching tarantulas*! (Click a thumbnail to see a larger image. Uploaded with ImageShack.us.)







There's not much I can say that hasn't already been mentioned. Very interesting thread, though.


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## Necromion (Jan 23, 2012)

@Pikaia Pretty aphonopelma any idea what sp that is?


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## Stan Schultz (Jan 24, 2012)

Necromion said:


> @Pikaia Pretty aphonopelma any idea what sp that is?


Currently known as _Aphonopelma moderatum_ (Chamberlin & Ivie, 1939), the Rio Grange gold tarantula. However, there have been persistent rumors for years that it's really _A. texense_ (Simon, 1891). We won't know for sure until Brent Hendrixson looks at them in detail, particularly the DNA work, and officially publishes the data.

Under any name, this is arguably perhaps one of the most colorful N. American tarantulas. Not a large species. Full grown adults have a DLS of only 4" to 5" (10-12 cm). Care for them the same as any other arid species, but don't try to handle them. Most of them will ardently attempt to bite.

On the subject of venom, I react to the venom of this species with a mild numbness and tingling that persists for several hours, then gradually fades.


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