# Top Ten Most Aggressive Tarantulas



## Sadistic_Serpen

Hi!

I'm new here, my name is Mackenzie, and I've been reading the beginner thread (which helps a lot). I was thinking about a Mexican Blonde, Mexican Red Knee, Costa Rican Zebra, or a Pinktoe. I have a lot of experience with snakes (mainyl ball pythons), and I hope to breed a large scale of reptiles.

Anyways, I was wondering what you think the top ten most agressive tarantulas are? Yes, I am aware that most tarantulas are individual... I was just wondering what your opinions are. I don't have enough experience to form an opinion 

~ Mackenzie

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## B8709

We usually refer to them as most defensive. The species Pterinochilus murinus and the genus Haplopelma are some of the most defensive. Not recommended to you yet. My first Tarantula was a Haplopelma, but it was a mistake...I thought I was getting an A. seemani.

Reactions: Like 1 | Sad 1


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## Redneck

As stated they are not agressive.. But deffensive..

But to add to the list of deffensive tarantulas.. I would say the Psalmopoeus genus.. They are pretty deffensive..

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## Sadistic_Serpen

Ah... Sorry... 

I'm used to calling some snakes 'aggressive'.

Oh, I don't plan on getting any defensive tarantulas for a while, I just wanted to see some of the most agressive ones. I heard the Baboons were?

~ Mackenzie

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## B8709

It's alright. They're defensive instead of aggressive because they don't come after you to hurt you for fun. They just protect and defend their homes from intruders. Yes, Pterinochilus murinus is a baboon tarantula (Orange Baboon Tarantula or Orange Bitey Thing). Old worlds rely on their bites, opposed to the new worlds who would rather kick irritating hair as they make a getaway.

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## Sadistic_Serpen

Thanks!

I can wait to get my tarantulas 

I may get a baboon tarantula after getting more experienced.

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## Red Beard

It is possible to aggressively defend, no?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## xhexdx

Red Beard said:


> It is possible to aggressively defend, no?


Yes, but that does not make the tarantula aggressive.

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## Versi*JP*Color

A B.Boehmei perhaps.
It's really defensive/creative with U-hairs.

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## Mack&Cass

Top two in my opinion and experience would be Chilobrachys spp. and Selenocosmia spp.

Cass


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## Fran

Well...
This is gonna start a war, but by definition, they can show aggressiveness.
They can be aggressive, wheter is via defensive mechanisms...It is aggressivness.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## AbraCadaver

Well, it could be argued that they can infact be aggresive defenders, when they're defensive often, if you use aggresive in the same fashion as "he's an aggresive flirter when he's drunk", but this is all down to defenitions of course 

I would have to say haplopelma, simply because mine is mental. It's about the size of a fingernail, and the meanest little booger ever.. It actually tried to kill me through the vents of its vile..

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## Arachnoholic420

Aggressive.... 
Deffensive.....
I find most Asian species tend to be....


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## Falk

Top 10 is impossible to say, there are a lot of OW/NW species you never heard of.


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## AbraCadaver

Falk said:


> Top 10 is impossible to say, there are a lot of OW/NW species you never heard of.


Let your hair down just once, and rate the ones you do know about. No need to drag the unknowns into this, as the OP hardly expects us to predict stuff

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Terry D

*Good quote*



Red Beard said:


> It is possible to aggressively defend, no?


Red Beard, You hit the nail on the head with that term. I like it. "Aggressively defensive"!- although none of my current t's would be considered as such. All are pretty doggone passive- even a few that were previously noted in various texts to be fairly defensive. The A genic and N vulpinus merely mistake fingers for food at times -imo that doesn't count. Guess I lucked up 100% so far with docile individuals of various genera and spp.

Somethings telling me this is soon to change

Good one,

Terry


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## winwin

Falk said:


> Top 10 is impossible to say, there are a lot of OW/NW species you never heard of.


His talking about the ones in the hobby.


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## Salamanderhead

Im scared of my OBT.  He gives me dirty looks.

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## xhexdx

Salamanderhead said:


> Im scared of my OBT.  He gives me dirty looks.


Well he's confused by your salamander head.  Duh.  I'd probably give ya dirty looks, too.

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## BatGirl

*Burmese Cobalt Blue*

One of the species sometimes found in pet shops (well, that's where I found a couple of them so far) is the Cobalt Blue (Haplopelma lividum) discovered in Burma, aka *Burmese Cobalt Blue*. _EXTREMELY _hostile (sometimes just making a faint noise that gets their attention will make them aggressive... kinda like some of the members of this forum, heh, heh) and they have a very nasty bite (just ask xhexdx about his experience - he survived it, but I don't think I would've what with my health condition and advanced age...). I have never even thought to handle any of my Blues, just experiencing their hostility was enough to make me settle for just looking (they ARE such a nice crush velvet deep iridescent blue, and definitely worth having - just don't handle)

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## Falk

winwin said:


> His talking about the ones in the hobby.


Ok so do i


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## jebbewocky

BatGirl said:


> One of the species sometimes found in pet shops (well, that's where I found a couple of them so far) is the Cobalt Blue (Haplopelma lividum) discovered in Burma, aka *Burmese Cobalt Blue*. _EXTREMELY _hostile (sometimes just making a faint noise that gets their attention will make them aggressive... kinda like some of the members of this forum, heh, heh) and they have a very nasty bite (just ask xhexdx about his experience - he survived it, but I don't think I would've what with my health condition and advanced age...). I have never even thought to handle any of my Blues, just experiencing their hostility was enough to make me settle for just looking (they ARE such a nice crush velvet deep iridescent blue, and definitely worth having - just don't handle)


It's just Cobalt Blue, not Burmese Cobalt Blue.  But you already knew that.
I'll contribute H.maculata to the list.  I haven't kept many defensive species, but my H.mac has a pretty bad attitude.

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## Falk

_Ornithoctonus spp_, _Haploclastus spp._, _Thrigmopoeus spp._, _Lyrognathus spp_. _Haplopelma spp._


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## malevolentrobot

BatGirl said:


> the Cobalt Blue (Haplopelma lividum) discovered in Burma, aka *Burmese Cobalt Blue*.


while i will agree that bolding this to get the OPs attention that it is a defensive T is great, i will disagree with the Burmese added. pretty sure they just go by "Cobalt blue" in the trade. maybe if you didn't have so many people with good advice on your ignore list, you'd know that?



jebbewocky said:


> It's just Cobalt Blue, not Burmese Cobalt Blue.  But you already knew that.
> I'll contribute H.maculata to the list.  I haven't kept many defensive species, but my H.mac has a pretty bad attitude.


seriously. i almost bought an H. mac on accident (thought it was something else. the internet is your friend young tarantula keeper...). i have to admit i haven't owned one but from what i saw in the 10mins, i'd respectfully decline anyway, that thing was an absolute nutcase in a jar.

also, to a poster too far back for me to go quote, bohemei's aren't _that_ bad.  not enough to be on this list, anyway. IME, mine only has done a threat display once while tong feeding. kicking on the other hand, he's (well we think he) a nasty little booger but is getting better as he grows.


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## gumby

malevolentrobot said:


> seriously. i almost bought an H. mac on accident, i haven't owned one but from what i saw in the 10mins, i'd respectfully decline owning one. thing was an absolute nutcase.


my H. mac is like a puppy I feel some of these species only act defensive if they are not given good tank set ups. My H. mac hides in his moss all day but the one at the pet store near me has nothing to hide in or under and is a little defensive.

my top 10 of defensive Ts Ive worked with are in no special order:
Haplopelma lividum
Iridoplema hirsutum
Nhandu tripepii
Nhandu Chromatus
Phlogius sp aussie goliath 1 out of my 4 is an angry little best
Pterinoclus murinus
Tapinauchenius plumipes
Citharischius crawshayi
Lampropelma violaceopes
Poecilotheria Regalis


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## malevolentrobot

gumby said:


> my H. mac is like a puppy I feel some of these species only act defensive if they are not given good tank set ups. My H. mac hides in his moss all day but the one at the pet store near me has nothing to hide in or under and is a little defensive.


that probably has a lot to do with it. the poor thing was in a jar big enough to fit it and maybe an extra 1/2-2/3 of its legspan? it was actually one of the reasons i contemplated buying it initially (and that it was $15 and that the guy had no idea what it was, gave somebody trade-in store credit for it). if i was going to be accused of anthropomorphism, i'd say it actually looked "sad" in its tiny habitat. anyway, in the end, i declined for reasons stated above and that i hadn't done enough homework yet (i only have standard terrestrial T's right now and i think i'd like to learn the ropes a little easier)

i suppose were i to keep a faster, arboreal type i'd go with a psalmo at this point. just as fast, supposedly even more defensive, but from what i've read the venom is less potent...?

i guess the H. mac just get a bad rap for being fast and potent...

also, no S. cal's on here yet? i thought these guys were *monsters* from what people have posted in the past.


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## fartkowski

My B vagans is the craziest tarantula I have ever had.
Right now I have just over 200 different species, and hands down, it's my female B vagans.

Reactions: Wow 1


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## Anubis77

Haplopelma, Pterinochilus, Poecilotheria, Psalmopoeus, Stromatopelma, Sericopelma, Chilobrachys: they can't match the defensiveness of this monster:







The face of terror. Aphonopelma behlei.


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## B8709

Anubis77 said:


> The face of terror. Aphonopelma behlei.


Yeah, right.......


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## Ms.X

BatGirl said:


> Cobalt Blue (Haplopelma lividum) discovered in Burma, aka *Burmese Cobalt Blue*. _EXTREMELY _hostile (sometimes just making a faint noise that gets their attention will make them aggressive... kinda like some of the members of this forum, heh, heh)





jebbewocky said:


> It's just Cobalt Blue, not Burmese Cobalt Blue.  But you already knew that.





malevolentrobot said:


> while i will agree that bolding this to get the OPs attention that it is a defensive T is great, i will disagree with the Burmese added. pretty sure they just go by "Cobalt blue" in the trade. maybe if you didn't have so many people with good advice on your ignore list, you'd know that?


Well, the entire membership can't have made her ignore list yet, so hopefully she sees that it's not merely the 'unreasonable elite' that will tell her she's wrong.

After all of this talk, I thought that I would lighten things up by sharing a reminder of this:


Rick McJimsey said:


>


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## JOHN 3:16

I have thirty-two (32) genera which includes:Haplopelma, Pterinochilus, Poecilotheria, Psalmopoeus, Stromatopelma, Chilobrachys, but the most agressively defensive tarantula I have, hands down, is my 7" King Baboon *(Citharischius crawshayi)* I call Queen


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## malevolentrobot

Ms.X said:


> Well, the entire membership can't have made her ignore list yet, so hopefully she sees that it's not merely the 'unreasonable elite' that will tell her she's wrong.
> 
> After all of this talk, I thought that I would lighten things up by sharing a reminder of this:


"unreasonable elite"? i think some people just don't like the embarassment of being corrected/chastised by someone else online that knows better. at least half of that "ignore list" have been the first to speak up and help guide me in a situation where i have posted a question (or have been doing something wrong :8o). being online on an advice/opinions board means growing some thicker skin and/or graciously taking criticism when you put yourself out there to be scrutinized.

and this is coming from someone who has posted some stuff that could have easily been figured out if i had used that darn search function... 

ANYWAY, just my two cents...

tarantula macros make me gleeful in my heart. i need to resurrect or make a macro thread one of these days


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## Ms.X

malevolentrobot said:


> "unreasonable elite"?


Heh, I think you misunderstood my sarcastic intent behind the use of that phrase.  I absolutely agree with you.  I was merely poking fun because that seems like a phrase that she would have used to describe the people on her ignore list.


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## bksbuddha

BatGirl said:


> One of the species sometimes found in pet shops (well, that's where I found a couple of them so far) is the Cobalt Blue (Haplopelma lividum) discovered in Burma, aka *Burmese Cobalt Blue*. _EXTREMELY _hostile (sometimes just making a faint noise that gets their attention will make them aggressive... kinda like some of the members of this forum, heh, heh) and they have a very nasty bite (just ask xhexdx about his experience - he survived it, but I don't think I would've what with my health condition and advanced age...). I have never even thought to handle any of my Blues, just experiencing their hostility was enough to make me settle for just looking (they ARE such a nice crush velvet deep iridescent blue, and definitely worth having - just don't handle)


I've heard that they're notoriously aggressive myself before I got mine & it almost deterred me from making the plunge... but I'm so very glad that I did. Guess the guy who had her before me "tamed the wild beast". The only time I actually witnessed a threat display was when I was misting the tank a bit & some of it must have touched her. She's been moved from her tiny 1 gallon container when I first brought her home cool: by someone who knew how to do it properly...didn't want a loose baby w/my husband the exterminator around) into a spacious 5 gallon & provided w/enough substrate that she burrowed down & built a volcano for good measure. She seems happy enough to stay hidden pretty much 95% of the time, but does come out occasionally. And whenever I do manage to catch a glimpse of her or legs sticking outta her hole, she retreats at the least little motion, light, or shadow. Granted I got her as a 2 yr. old, but she still seems rather relaxed to me. They all do have different personalities, don't they. Don't get me wrong, I still have nothing but the utmost respect for her & NEVER attempt to handle her. But she is :drool: *GORGEOUS* to look at...*WHEN* ya see her.  She's definitely a "run & hide" Cobalt.


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## Anubis77

B8709 said:


> Yeah, right.......


There's something comically scary about the smaller Aphonopelma spp. My OW spiders bite, slap the ground with their legs, stridulate, but, in the end, they either take up a stance in one spot or run away. 

It's my A. behlei and dwarf species that splay out their fangs, lift their abdomens, and slowly walk towards your fingers when you open the lid. That slow and deliberate threat display is like something out of The Shining.

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## RichRollin

Anubis77 said:


> There's something comically scary about the smaller Aphonopelma spp. My OW spiders bite, slap the ground with their legs, stridulate, but, in the end, they either take up a stance in one spot or run away.
> 
> It's my A. behlei and dwarf species that splay out their fangs, lift their abdomens, and slowly walk towards your fingers when you open the lid. That slow and deliberate threat display is like something out of The Shining.


I had a laugh reading that.  My A. behlei does the exact same thing, every time I open the lid to it's deli cup.  Ass in the air, slowly walking at my fingers.  Very ballsy little spiders they are.


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## Kamikaze

fartkowski said:


> My B vagans is the craziest tarantula I have ever had.
> Right now I have just over 200 different species, and hands down, it's my female B vagans.


I also had a B. vagans too which was way too defensive. 
Right now, my Hysterocrates gigas is probably my most defensive T. It was traded to me a few months ago because she had bitten the original owner.


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## Bazzgazm

Personally my Heteroscodra was more of the flighty variety...

the only tarantula of the ones i've owned that scared me (and that now includes a 8.5" theraphosa sp.) was my chilobrachys, It was a wc specimen but man was he evil.... Threat poses galore.

and when he did get out.. he wouldn't think twice to charge at ya with his front 2 legs up.
Here she is in her 7" of glory.

Reactions: Dislike 2


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## robd

malevolentrobot said:


> while i will agree that bolding this to get the OPs attention that it is a defensive T is great, i will disagree with the Burmese added. pretty sure they just go by "Cobalt blue" in the trade. maybe if you didn't have so many people with good advice on your ignore list, you'd know that?


Don't waste your time man. I don't see 'Batgirl' post that much, but this isn't the first time I've seen her jump into a thread to bring the Cobalt Blue into discussion. Nothing wrong with that, but I would not be surprised if it's just to say "Burmese Cobalt Blue". She knew she'd get a rise out of SOMEBODY and you just happened to bite this time.

There's lots of ways to get people's attention and this seems to be one of Batgirl's favorites. The online forum. Cause if it wasn't "Burmese" then it'd be her publicized ignore list.

And right around now is where you can cue a Captain Saveaho in to defend Batgirl. Hahaha. No, really, it has happened before.


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## Cirith Ungol

Not sure how to objectively contribute here but I can say that upon mass rehousing my Citharischius crawshayi was pretty annoying. It would never back down and always bite my herding stick so I'd hardly get it to go anywhere. All the others would eventually give up and run and do what I told them to, but even upon leaving its territory and being in the new tank it was still very aggravated and struck everything around it, including striking at nothing when nothing around it moved. Somebody had an anger management problem that day. 

But the spider I'd have feared the most was my old MM rosea. He was the devil in a nut shell. Little furry hand grenade.


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## BlackCat

fartkowski said:


> My B vagans is the craziest tarantula I have ever had.
> Right now I have just over 200 different species, and hands down, it's my female B vagans.


I have over 40 tarantulas (about 30 different species) and I'd have to agree with this. My female B. vagans... she is insane!

I keep seeing H. lividum brought up but my girl is just really, eerily calm. Even rehousing her, she went calmly into the catch cup, after hardly caring that I tore the roof off of her home, then nicely into her new enclosure.  lol


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## FireGuyX

Redneck said:


> As stated they are not agressive.. But deffensive..
> 
> But to add to the list of deffensive tarantulas.. *I would say the Psalmopoeus genus*.. They are pretty deffensive..


I've handled the P.cambridgei with no problem.  The irmina and the pulcher are pretty defensive from my experience.


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## barabootom

gumby said:


> my H. mac is like a puppy I feel some of these species only act defensive if they are not given good tank set ups. My H. mac hides in his moss all day but the one at the pet store near me has nothing to hide in or under and is a little defensive.
> 
> my top 10 of defensive Ts Ive worked with are in no special order:
> Haplopelma lividum
> Iridoplema hirsutum
> Nhandu tripepii
> Nhandu Chromatus
> Phlogius sp aussie goliath 1 out of my 4 is an angry little best
> Pterinoclus murinus
> Tapinauchenius plumipes
> Citharischius crawshayi
> Lampropelma violaceopes
> Poecilotheria Regalis


I'm glad to see *one* person posted a top 10 list.  I would agree with most of this list, except the tripepii.  I have several large females and they are all quite laid back.  My chromatus go crazy and run about but don't really attack so I'd remove them from this list too.  The rest definitely belong on the top 10.


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## Jilly1337

My Psalmopoeus and my GBB are my quickest to attack prey, which would be more of an aggressive behavior.  Jason's P. cancerides is the quickest to rear up at the slightest motion, which is more defensive.


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## scar is my t

Salamanderhead said:


> Im scared of my OBT.  He gives me dirty looks.


Be very afraid.


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## Mojo Jojo

I had an A. avicularia that would raise up and show fangs every time I walked by or even looked at her, so it wouldn't surprise me that someone might list some other random nw T as one that they found to be aggressive/defensive.  

I had a P. murinus for a very little while that would really get my adrenaline pumping when I would try to change its substrate/rehouse.


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## ikarus_black

*..... nope!!*

.... in my opinion, i think there's not aggresive tarantula, they all just react against a threat ..... but if i have to name one in my collection, its my P. pederseni..... she's got issues!!!!!;P


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## Falk

ikarus_black said:


> .... in my opinion, i think there's not aggresive tarantula, they all just react against a threat ..... but if i have to name one in my collection, its my P. pederseni..... she's got issues!!!!!;P


Reacting against a threat is defensive behaviour and aggression is used to defend


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## seanbond

whats crazy is in my 15yrs of keepin spidas, iv had less than 10x of seeing any kind of "aggression" from a 90% ow kollection.


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## kevin1995

From my limited knowledge of all the species and spellings of them, I think the genuses including H. lividum, P. murinus, P. ornata are quite defensive.
King baboons are defensive but they bite rarely because they tend to just stay in their burrow. Pokies and genus including P. murinus tend to dash quite a lot and if threatened they immidiately go to defense position. Psalmoes are ok, as long as you dont poke and jab their webbings. As for uticating hairs, Theraphosas are widely known for their nice hairs.

Most terrestrial species tend to not tag you unless you have an adult specimen.

Most arboreals are okay, but some like pokies dash a lot and bites are painful.

Burrowing types have nasty bites but just remember to give them proper home, they will be okay with you.

Many T's are good to keep even if you are a beginner as long as you do a research on them as well as other keeper's opinion on certain species.


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## K.K.I.

Well, I suppose all Poecilotherias and Haplopelmas are very defensive of every vibration near
them. When cleaning days come, I realy experience problems with my fast Poecilotherias,
since they do fast moves and of course of the strong venom.


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## Anthony Straus

Most aggressive T I have ever had in my possession for any prolonged period of time was a MM Chilobrachys fimbriatus. It would flare up the second I walked in the room, and would begin striking when I got close...mating was...."fun".:liar:


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## Armstrong5

yea i have many haplo's and they all seem pretty "defensive" or as i agree with the above statement that compared with other T's they r aggressive. not mean just aggressive or defensive what ever you want to call it


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## brian abrams

*10 most defensive T's*

Don't really have any except one A Seemani ??  But, some of the most aggressive I've seen posted on similar forums are:  S Calceatum, S Dichromata, P Ornata, P Cancerides, H Vietnam, H Minax, H Lividum, T Blondi, P Murinas, and Rangoon Mustard.


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## Pociemon

K.K.I. said:


> Well, I suppose all Poecilotherias and Haplopelmas are very defensive of every vibration near
> them. When cleaning days come, I realy experience problems with my fast Poecilotherias,
> since they do fast moves and of course of the strong venom.


I keep many poecilotheria, and i never have problem with them, they tend to run and hide, rather than stand and fight.  Have several subfusca and metallica and they are as calm as any B smithi i have seen.  Maculata and stromatopelma are also a little overrated with defensiveness, seldom have any worries there. But i do see very defensive behaviour with my chinese haplopelmas and my singapore blue.


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## kean

from what i had before..

Haplopelma Minax and Chilobrachys Huahini.. never shy to show a threat pose..


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## SRirish

Bazzgazm said:


> Personally my Heteroscodra was more of the flighty variety...
> 
> the only tarantula of the ones i've owned that scared me (and that now includes a 8.5" theraphosa sp.) was my chilobrachys, It was a wc specimen but man was he evil.... Threat poses galore.
> 
> and when he did get out.. he wouldn't think twice to charge at ya with his front 2 legs up.
> Here she is in her 7" of glory.


Would you happen to know what type of Chilobrachys you have? My Chilobrachys "guanxiensis" is by far the most aggressively defensive T I have come across, 7.5" of 8 legged asian fury. I've gotten a obt sling recently though and it's already starting to show a little attitude. 
   What are peoples experiences with T's from down under? I heard that some of them can be really over the top as far as defensiveness goes.


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## Chris_Skeleton

I only have NW, but my RCF rosea is ridiculously crazy. It will raise it's abdomen up in the air at you and one of it's back legs just ready to kick at you. Or when you open the container and it's running at you with it's front legs up in the air. It's crazy!!! I'm scared of that thing.


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## Fierce Deїty

The most "aggressive" I can think of is Grammostola pulchra.   Man they'll latch into your neck and make a meal out of your carotid artery.


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## AlexNorthey

*S.Calceatum*

Hi. I'm getting a S. Calceatum on Saturday. Has anybody got any advice on how I need to keep it? Couldn't find and care sheets so I'm not sure about the humidity and other stuff etc. Thanks


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## SRirish

There is a search function on these boards that you can use for your future questions. I would assume you keep featherlegs much like H.macs, I feel they are slightly overrated as far as defensiveness but that by no means makes them pushovers. You'll have a p.o.'ed spider thats super fast and venomous so there is no such thing as being to cautious.


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## bloodred1889

gumby said:


> my H. mac is like a puppy I feel some of these species only act defensive if they are not given good tank set ups. My H. mac hides in his moss all day but the one at the pet store near me has nothing to hide in or under and is a little defensive.
> 
> my top 10 of defensive Ts Ive worked with are in no special order:
> 
> Nhandu Chromatus


---------------

really? nhandu chromatus?
i have one and it is not agressive atall, it does shoot its hairs at me
but mostly when i open the tank it just gets out of the way, i even held it when i first bought it.
i call  it it because im not sure which sex it is.
im thinking male because its very long legged.

this is the pic i put in a thread to get identified and they said it was a nhandu.





in your opinion is it one?

sorry not trying to hyjack the thread im just so suprised you say that species is agressive and on the top ten list! :?


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## mcluskyisms

I think _Brachypelma albopilosum_ is the most aggressive tarantula ever!!!

Mine ate my thumb and that......


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## Terry D

Fierce Deїty said:


> The most "aggressive" I can think of is Grammostola pulchra.   Man they'll latch into your neck and make a meal out of your carotid artery.


Yes, That would be the most aggressive/ extremely violent in my top 5 list followed by:

2. G rosea "friendly" form
3. E campestratus
4. B emilia
5. B. albopilosum

And let's not forget daddy longlegs.......DEADLY! If him peez in yor eye yoocannotsee, mon!


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## mcluskyisms

Terry D said:


> Yes, That would be the most aggressive/ extremely violent in my top 5 list followed by:
> 
> 2. G rosea "friendly" form
> 3. E campestratus
> 4. B emilia
> 5. B. albopilosum
> 
> And let's not forget daddy longlegs.......DEADLY! If him peez in yor eye yoocannotsee, mon!


Nooooooooooo!!!!!!!

The evil daddy long legs, there's been like 6 and half deaths here this week off those things!!!


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## Terry D

Sorry to hear that. We've had 10 from isopods alone!


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## mcluskyisms

Terry D said:


> Sorry to hear that. We've had 10 from isopods alone!


We had a nasty outbreak of housefly's laying eggs in peoples brains here, I mean for serious dude, peoples frikin' brains and that man.....

Naughty stuff......


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## Helix

bloodred1889 said:


> ---------------
> 
> really? nhandu chromatus?
> i have one and it is not agressive atall, it does shoot its hairs at me
> but mostly when i open the tank it just gets out of the way, i even held it when i first bought it.
> i call  it it because im not sure which sex it is.
> im thinking male because its very long legged.
> 
> this is the pic i put in a thread to get identified and they said it was a nhandu.
> 
> in your opinion is it one?


Also, for now atleast, my most defensive tarantula was also nhandu chromatus.. it was my second tarantula, after B.smithi

And yes, that is Nhandu chromatus.


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## Terry D

Oh my! You need to keep an eye out for planarians for that very same reason- but not this time of year. 

Btw, Chris, I'd like to man up and apologize for any comments I made awhile back about you and your girl that might have come across to you two, as well as many here, as a bit trollish. Some of us including myself tend to come off a bit rude at times. No harm meant. Y'll have a great evening! Peace, bro.



Terry


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## mcluskyisms

Terry D said:


> Oh my! You need to keep an eye out for planarians for that very same reason- but not this time of year.
> 
> Btw, Chris, I'd like to man up and apologize for any comments I made awhile back about you and your girl that might have come across to you two, as well as many here, as a bit trollish. Some of us including myself tend to come off a bit rude at times. No harm meant. Y'll have a great evening! Peace, bro.
> 
> 
> 
> Terry


No worries man, its all good


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## mike w

My female OBT goes nuts everytime I open her enclosure!!!!


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## Terry D

Aww, I figure she just wants a kiss on that little white spot between the fangs.


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## Zman181

My Male Obt Is a little defensive.  He wants a Girlfriend.  I need to get him a Mature Girl.


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## Quixtar

I think narrowing this down to a species level is a bit difficult. Listing some genera would be better.

In my experience and in no specific order:

1. Haplopelma
2. Stromatopelma
3. Phlogius
4. Pterinochilus
5. Tapinauchenius
6. Psalmopoeus
7. Monocentropus
8. Ornithoctonus
9. Selenocosmia
10. Citharischius


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## Terry D

^ Interesting. Yet another list with no mention of Poecilotheria. I like seeing that.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Scorpionking20

I think the "defensive/aggresive" thing is ridiculous.  If people say aggressive, don't correct them.  Because they are right.  Semantics isn't important.  Sofa, couch.  Chair, seat.  Aggressive, defensive.  Lions aren't out to get you either.  But could you call them aggressive, sure!  There are various definitions on the meaning of aggressive and defensive.  OBTs and many other spiders qualify as aggressive.

If you want to call them defensive because it makes you feel better, that's fine.  But stop "correcting" people when they are right and you have a differing prefrence.

Back to the subject, I had an H lividum that bit my tongs and gave threat postures.  That was my only T to give threats.  Yet...

Reactions: Like 1 | Disagree 1


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## TrentinG

My P ornata, P Cambridgei, and A Brocklehursti are my only T's that have ever tried to bite. My H crassipes is my most docile T!! :?


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## Sleazoid

Scorpionking20 said:


> I think the "defensive/aggresive" thing is ridiculous.  If people say aggressive, don't correct them.  Because they are right.  Semantics isn't important.  Sofa, couch.  Chair, seat.  Aggressive, defensive.  Lions aren't out to get you either.  But could you call them aggressive, sure!  There are various definitions on the meaning of aggressive and defensive.  OBTs and many other spiders qualify as aggressive.
> 
> If you want to call them defensive because it makes you feel better, that's fine.  But stop "correcting" people when they are right and you have a differing prefrence.
> 
> Back to the subject, I had an H lividum that bit my tongs and gave threat postures.  That was my only T to give threats.  Yet...



No. Defensive is still the correct term. Defensive is them defending their home. If you were to bring your H. lividum out of its cage, place it on the ground. If it charges at you and attacks you. That is aggressive.

If your home was broken into, as a human you would want to defend it right? But if you were to just go out and shoot someone randomly that is aggressive/psychotic.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Jacobchinarian

I heard stromatopelma calceatum are actualy aggressive. They chase water droplets when you mist. I wanna get one lol


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## Stewjoe

Least defensive- Brachypelma vagans
Most defensive - Grammostola pulchripes

No its not backwards


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## Fran

By definition, the fact that tarantulas can ,wether is as s defensive behavior, strike at you  bite you,  they are being agressive.

I dont get how can people DONT GET THIS.


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## Zoltan

Fran said:


> By definition, the fact that tarantulas can ,wether is as s defensive behavior, strike at you  bite you,  they are being agressive.
> 
> I dont get how can people DONT GET THIS.


Which definition are you referring to, Fran?


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## Scorpionking20

*Great Example!*



Sleazoid said:


> No. Defensive is still the correct term. Defensive is them defending their home. If you were to bring your H. lividum out of its cage, place it on the ground. If it charges at you and attacks you. That is aggressive.
> 
> If your home was broken into, as a human you would want to defend it right? But if you were to just go out and shoot someone randomly that is aggressive/psychotic.


Wrong.  LOL...you crack me up.  This is exactly what I'm talking about.  This is one of the reasons the internet can be frustrating...people really have a need to feel like they are worth something (that person being you) and seek somewhere to try and act in such a way they feel proud of themselves.  Good job...I hope you feel better.  

Neuroscience defines aggression as behavior directed at an object or animal which results in damage or harm to that object or animal.  Period.  It's a defensive action to run, to defend oneself from harm.  So if my A metallica ran away after I breath on her, she is acting defensively.  If I breath on my OBT and it throws up a threat display, that's defensive as well, right?  If I breath on it with my face close enough, I get bit.  That's defensive.

So...semantically in this case, defensive doesn't give us the definition we are looking at in this instance (A willingness to bite/hair).  So, in cases where potential harm comes along I will differentiate that from defensiveness by calling it aggression.  

Get over it...don't come to the internet and argue semantics which you don't understand.  The purpose for a forum is to communicate, and calling aggressive spiders (those which would potentially harm you) aggressive to separate them from non-aggressive yet defensive spiders (those that want to protect themselves, yet they don't have a tendency to cause harm, such as runners, hiders) helps hobbyists understand their respective species better.

Anyways, Sleazoid, thanks for sharing your' own made up definition of what aggression is (Your' H lividum example).  Now I know what you think of as aggression!  However, since I prefer objective definitions that lack vagueness or relativity, I'll continue to try and help members of this forum by using correct definitions and linguistics that actually communicate/convey useful and accurate information rather than trying to assert my own definition so that I may call people wrong on the internet and feel good about it.

In closing, no, this is not a personal attack on Sleazoid.  I just wanted to clarify because his was a great example of what is wrong with the whole "aggressive" vs "defensive" debate.  If it's useful in conveying information, then awesome.  Any newcomer to the hobby that is told both Avics and Stromatopelmas are both defensive may hold those Ts as similar in character...thus we need better use of definitions to distinguish truly "defensive" Ts from the more typically "aggressive" (behaviors that are more likely to cause harm) Ts.

I hope we all learned something this morning!

---------- Post added at 09:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:35 AM ----------




Fran said:


> By definition, the fact that tarantulas can ,wether is as s defensive behavior, strike at you  bite you,  they are being agressive.
> 
> I dont get how can people DONT GET THIS.


Welcome back Fran!  We've missed you!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Stewjoe

I still think that they aggressively defend.


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## Fran

Hey man!

Zoltan, by definition of agression. 

The action of biting you is an aggressive action. Thats agressivity.


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## Singapore_Blue1

Fran said:


> Hey man!
> 
> Zoltan, by definition of agression.
> 
> The action of biting you is an aggressive action. Thats agressivity.


I totally agree with Fran on this subject....Is that a first lol


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## Fran

Singapore_Blue1 said:


> I totally agree with Fran on this subject....Is that a first lol


Is it?


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## Zoltan

Hey Fran, perhaps I wasn't clear enough, I was curious which specific definition of the word "aggression" or "aggressive" are you referring to, because you said "by definition" and it would have been helpful to me if you have had actually spelled out that definition.

I used to side with the "defensive" camp until I did a little research. Sources indicate that the word "aggression" originates from the Latin _aggressus_ = attacked, or the Latin _aggredi_ = to attack.

Immelmann & Beer's (1989) definition of aggression:
_"*Aggression.* Aggressive behaviour. A general term for all elements of attacks, defense and threat behaviour. [...]"_

...and "aggressiveness":
_"*Aggressiveness.* A species' or individual's typical tendency to attack, or a tendency specific to an individual on a particular occasion or in a particular situation."_

And then Maggenti's _Online Dictionary of Invertebrate Zoology_ defines aggression as this:
"*aggression* n. [L. _aggressus_, attacked] The behavior of an organism involving threats or attack of another organism or object."

References:
Immelmann, K. & C. Beer. 1989. A dictionary of ethology. _Harvard University Press_, 336 pp.
Maggenti, A. R. _Online Dictionary of Invertebrate Zoology._ online @ http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/onlinedictinvertzoology/


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## Fran

Zoltan said:


> Hey Fran, perhaps I wasn't clear enough, I was curious which specific definition of the word "aggression" or "aggressive" are you referring to, because you said "by definition" and it would have been helpful to me if you have had actually spelled out that definition.
> 
> I used to side with the "defensive" camp until I did a little research. Sources indicate that the word "aggression" originates from the Latin _aggressus_ = attacked, or the Latin _aggredi_ = to attack.
> 
> Immelmann & Beer's (1989) definition of aggression:
> _"*Aggression.* Aggressive behaviour. A general term for all elements of attacks, defense and threat behaviour. [...]"_
> 
> ...and "aggressiveness":
> _"*Aggressiveness.* A species' or individual's typical tendency to attack, or a tendency specific to an individual on a particular occasion or in a particular situation."_
> 
> And then Maggenti's _Online Dictionary of Invertebrate Zoology_ defines aggression as this:
> "*aggression* n. [L. _aggressus_, attacked] The behavior of an organism involving threats or attack of another organism or object."
> 
> References:
> Immelmann, K. & C. Beer. 1989. A dictionary of ethology. _Harvard University Press_, 336 pp.
> Maggenti, A. R. _Online Dictionary of Invertebrate Zoology._ online @ http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/onlinedictinvertzoology/


But Zoltan, even with any of those definitons, it fits, right?

The action of a spider rearing up and attempting to bite, is aggresion. Theres agression involved.
Non aggressive? Running away.


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## Scorpionking20

Hey, how come I didn't get quoted!?  I thought I put it quite nicely.  Fran nailed it.


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## josh_r

Not the most aggressive, but definitely the biggest "ALL BARK, no bite"

aphonopelma mojave











aphonopelma paloma and the drunken walk






Calisoga theveneti is probably the most aggressive native spider i have seen. They rival OBT's and others in aggression very willingly flipping right onto their backs to show their fangs!

Male pretty upset!






I blew on him and he darn near back flipped and landed like this! so mean!






female equally as upset!






and on her back she goes!

Reactions: Like 1


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## phily1579

Lets just be distintive on how we describe them. There not aggressive, they r defensive just like u guys said. Asian species n african species tend to be the more defensive species. But thats not to say a surposedly docile species like a rose hair can become defensive n not want to be messed with. My rosea is moody as hell. Alot of times she dnt wNt to be messed with. Just have to respect them n enjoy them!! Good luck to u mckenzie. Any other questions just ask.  

---------- Post added at 10:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:58 PM ----------

I love my obt. I got a 5" female. I call her the orange monster. Dnt c her for months on in though. but when i do get to c her, its a real treat.  :clap:

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Fran

For that matter, no animal is aggressive, then.
It is very simple, check out the definition and add 2+2

Reactions: Helpful 1


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## josh_r

phily1579 said:


> Lets just be distintive on how we describe them. There not aggressive, they r defensive just like u guys said. Asian species n african species tend to be the more defensive species. But thats not to say a surposedly docile species like a rose hair can become defensive n not want to be messed with. My rosea is moody as hell. Alot of times she dnt wNt to be messed with. Just have to respect them n enjoy them!! Good luck to u mckenzie. Any other questions just ask.


All species of tarantula can and will be defensive in some way or another, but there come a line that is crossed when calling it defensive is not enough. Many species show defensiveness by running away and kicking urticating hairs, others show it by going completely crazy and trying to kill you if they can. Others do both. I feel that when a species goes beligerent as most of your old worlds do, you can go ahead and say its aggressive..... or aggressively defending itself. either way, its aggression.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Fran

Arachnos said:


> I would have to say +1 to the defensive side. All my OBT's & Haplopelmas are dolls when not being messed with. The aggressor in the situation is the one who wants to get closer and admire it or mess with it. I think if a T could talk it would reply "If you don't start nothing, there would be nothing". The only part of them that could be considered aggressive is the feeding ritual of a T but that is not in debate. Only the crickets/roaches/pinkies would be able to rate that one.



If Im walking on the street with a baseball bat swinging at heads would you call me aggressive?  What if I told you that I felt the need of defense because they were the intruders?

The ACTION,no matter the cause, is aggressive in nature.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Fran

Arachnos said:


> I would def call that aggressive. You are the one with the baseball bat? In order for you to justify that statement and respond to what I said they actually would have to be "intruders" into your domain. Then even by our own laws your reaction is called 'self defense'. Maybe off topic but my T can not even lift a baseball bat so how is this relevant? :?


Just to make you understand, and it seems im failling, that wether is a defensive mechanism or not the action of striking and biting is an AGRESSIVE action.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Fran

Arachnos said:


> 1a : tending toward or exhibiting aggression: b marked by combative readiness.
> 2a : marked by obtrusive energy b : marked by driving forceful energy or initiative.


If those 2 acceptions arent suitable to the teeth foer you...Then yeah, Im done too. :?

Actually, Defensiveness  doesnt exclude agressivity. With your reasoning nothing  can be agressive. Since theres a reason behind the aggression, then im not aggressive, Right?


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## Fran

Arachnos said:


> This argument is one of symantics and is situational more then a generalization of all actions. Everything displays aggression when feeding or trying to survive. Only the human race displays it for amusement. It does our hobby good to label them as defensive and let people know they will not bite your face off for owning it. Just let them be prepared that it will defend itself if provoked and to treat them with respect. I figured you as another enthusiast of the hobby would realize that.


But I cant misscall something or be irrational  just because the outsiders might not understand it. Im sorry, but if they have a couple of braincells   they  would realize that any animal have no capability of being evil for amusement.

It might sound mean but I really dont waste my time explaining anything to someone who thinks that way. It is a matter of pure lack  of capacity to reason . To not  be able to comprehend basic behavior  of  wild animals is  not simple ignorance, is actually lack of  inteligence.

My mother, as an example, doesnt like them neither have interest on them  yet she fully understand that they wont come after you or try to bite you for no reason.


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## GartenSpinnen

Here I covered them all..

1. Haplopelma sp. (Any of them)
2. Pterinochilus murinus
3. S. calceatum
4. H. maculata
5. Whatever the King Baboon is called now.
6. Anything from Australia.
7. Everything else from Asia not listed.
8. Everything else from Africa not listed.
9. Poecilotheria sp. (When you try to put them in a deli.)
10. Every other tarantula that occasionally gets in a pissy mood for whatever reasons (Close to molt, Bad stimuli, Hungry, etc reasons mistaken for defensiveness).


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## malevolentrobot

jadespider1985 said:


> Here I covered them all..
> 
> 1. Haplopelma sp. (Any of them)
> 2. Pterinochilus murinus
> 3. S. calceatum
> 4. H. maculata
> 5. Whatever the King Baboon is called now.
> 6. Anything from Australia.
> 7. Everything else from Asia not listed.
> 8. Everything else from Africa not listed.
> 9. Poecilotheria sp. (When you try to put them in a deli.)
> 10. Every other tarantula that occasionally gets in a pissy mood for whatever reasons (Close to molt, Bad stimuli, Hungry, etc reasons mistaken for defensiveness).


i am disappointed to not see "the 50/50 coin toss chance with B. vagans" actually on the list. for every docile one i hear about, there are two insane ones that will rival a pokie hands down


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## MaskFac3

My rose hair hates me so much that it's ran to the front of the enclosure and bit it because I touched the stand she was on and when she bites it's not bite and let go its attempted destruction of object my b smithi is pretty bad it bit the white plastic sheets off the feeding tongues


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## moghue

I would have to say my A.hentzi he is pure evil. If i try anything in his cage he throws a threat display and if i try and move him with the brush he will actually bite at it numerous times. My OBTs just run and hide cant even get a threat display out of them.

Reactions: Like 1


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## TZach

H. maculata
S. calceatum are definitley the top 2


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## catfishrod69

I wouldnt place S. calceatum in the most deffensive list. But these would be among them

Pelinobius muticus
Pterinochilus murinus
Heteroscodra maculata
Haplopelma lividum
There are many more.


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## brian abrams

Where does the famous "pitbull" of T's; the Rangoon Mustard Spider rate nowadays?


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## melijoc

Haplopelma hainanum, hands down. it was against the plexi glass one time and when i threw the fuzzy close to it it jumped in mid air to grab it spun around the substrate and didnt let go. I  was gonna video tape it but i realized how quick it was and i didnt want it escaping.It reminded me of a snake striking its prey.


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## arachnofab

Any in the genus Poecilotheria (from what I've heard) are also very defensive. Gorgeous creatures but you would definitely want some experience before moving on to those.


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## trayothegreat

selenocosmia, obt, pokie.. but i didn't have enough experience with pokie..


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## Stromatopoke

I have a 6.25" female P. regalis. She is on the shy side of the spectrum. P. fasciata, P. ornata will have more attitude in general. But my girl is fine while in her cork log hide.

Just acquired two 1" Stromatopelma c. and the smaller one is skittish, while the larger one which may be a male is a ferocious cricket feeder. And has shown me bursts of speed running, that are hard to realize at times.



arachnofab said:


> Any in the genus Poecilotheria (from what I've heard) are also very defensive. Gorgeous creatures but you would definitely want some experience before moving on to those.


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## BrettG

arachnofab said:


> Any in the genus Poecilotheria (from what I've heard) are also very defensive. Gorgeous creatures but you would definitely want some experience before moving on to those.


You cannot say that if you have only "heard" it,and have not owned any. That is why Poec's get a bad rep.While some are more high strung than others,as a Genus they are NOT as bad as people say they are.While they still demand respect,there are NW arboreals that are WAY more defensive.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## X51

I know this thread is dead but... This is exactly why I have major issues with most of the members on this forum. Why when someone asks a question, do you have to correct them? Nearly every post on this thread is an argument between aggressive or defensive. Hardly anyone has actually paid any attention to the OP and his question. 
I am surprised this site is still going with the amount of arrogant answers I have come across in these threads. I thought this site was indented to help others, not be a 'who can give the snottiest response' competition.
A lot of you really need to grow up and realise that there is more to life, than the need to be a pernickety bitch.

Reactions: Funny 5 | Love 1 | Lollipop 1


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## boina

X51 said:


> I know this thread is dead but... This is exactly why I have major issues with most of the members on this forum. Why when someone asks a question, do you have to correct them? Nearly every post on this thread is an argument between aggressive or defensive. Hardly anyone has actually paid any attention to the OP and his question.
> I am surprised this site is still going with the amount of arrogant answers I have come across in these threads. I thought this site was indented to help others, not be a 'who can give the snottiest response' competition.
> A lot of you really need to grow up and realise that there is more to life, than the need to be a pernickety ....




Your first post on here and you use it to attack the whole board for being 'arrogant' and a 'pernickety b...'. Oh, the irony... Thank you for the laugh.

@Chris LXXIX I thought you might appreciate this...

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 3 | Love 2 | Award 1 | Winner 1


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## Chris LXXIX

boina said:


> @Chris LXXIX I thought you might appreciate this...


 Probably the 'of best' notification alert of the day/week/month 



X51 said:


> I know this thread is dead but... This is exactly why I have major issues with most of the members on this forum. Why when someone asks a question, do you have to correct them? Nearly every post on this thread is an argument between aggressive or defensive. Hardly anyone has actually paid any attention to the OP and his question.
> I am surprised this site is still going with the amount of arrogant answers I have come across in these threads. I thought this site was indented to help others, not be a 'who can give the snottiest response' competition.
> A lot of you really need to grow up and realise that there is more to life, than the need to be a pernickety


Hello there! 

I'm Chris LXXIX, always kind, calm and collected: at your service good Sir

Reactions: Funny 1 | Love 1


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## antinous

X51 said:


> I know this thread is dead but... This is exactly why I have major issues with most of the members on this forum. Why when someone asks a question, do you have to correct them? Nearly every post on this thread is an argument between aggressive or defensive. Hardly anyone has actually paid any attention to the OP and his question.
> I am surprised this site is still going with the amount of arrogant answers I have come across in these threads. I thought this site was indented to help others, not be a 'who can give the snottiest response' competition.
> A lot of you really need to grow up and realise that there is more to life, than the need to be a pernickety bitch.


Correcting people to tell them the difference between aggressive and defensive? That’s not being ‘snotty’, that’s us trying to educate them. Tarantulas aren’t aggresive, the don’t go out of their way to harm someone. They’re defensive, they defend themselves when you enter their home. It’s corrections like these that have to be made otherwise it’ll spread and demonize tarantulas even more than they already are

Reactions: Agree 7


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## nicodimus22

X51 said:


> Why when someone asks a question, do you have to correct them?


Because if they're wrong and we don't correct them, misinformation spreads even more than it already has about these animals.

Reactions: Agree 5 | Award 1


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## MikeofBorg

I love my C. lividus aka H. lividum Cobalt Blue.  She is a mature female and always ready to give me the business end of her fangs.  I love her but respect her.  The only time she really flips out is when I fill her water dish.  She rushes out of her hide to attack the water stream.  She burrowed when I first got her, but since I added an natural looking plastic rock hide she has went terrestrial on me.  She stopped burrowing and just uses the hide now.  Doesn't bug me at all, because now I can always peek in and see what she is doing.


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## EtienneN

Also it really depends on the individual spider, my P. subfusca is an absolute sweetheart from whom I've never gotten a threat pose. I think she thinks she's a PZB.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## AnObeseHippo

X51 said:


> I know this thread is dead but... This is exactly why I have major issues with most of the members on this forum. Why when someone asks a question, do you have to correct them? Nearly every post on this thread is an argument between aggressive or defensive. Hardly anyone has actually paid any attention to the OP and his question.
> I am surprised this site is still going with the amount of arrogant answers I have come across in these threads. I thought this site was indented to help others, not be a 'who can give the snottiest response' competition.
> A lot of you really need to grow up and realise that there is more to life, than the need to be a pernickety bitch.


If most of the members here display the issues you have problems with, then why did you choose to pick a 6 year old post to prove your point?

For the record, this OP’s question was answered. It is a discussion board, not an ‘Answers-Only’ board. As long as the question gets answered and conversation does not get too off track, then it is acceptable.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## Chris LXXIX

AnObeseHippo said:


> If most of the members here display the issues you have problems with, then why did you choose to pick a 6 year old post to prove your point?


What I *absolutely love* (and I'm not joking) isn't only that this was his first comment but that the users on this page present before he appeared are not anymore active here, by a long shot

Reactions: Like 3 | Funny 1


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## The Grym Reaper

X51 said:


> I know this thread is dead but... This is exactly why I have major issues with most of the members on this forum. Why when someone asks a question, do you have to correct them? Nearly every post on this thread is an argument between aggressive or defensive. Hardly anyone has actually paid any attention to the OP and his question.
> I am surprised this site is still going with the amount of arrogant answers I have come across in these threads. I thought this site was indented to help others, not be a 'who can give the snottiest response' competition.
> A lot of you really need to grow up and realise that there is more to life, than the need to be a pernickety bitch.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## SonsofArachne

X51 said:


> This is exactly why I have major issues with most of the members on this forum. Why when someone asks a question, do you have to correct them?


I'm just guessing, but you don't like being told when you're wrong, do you?



X51 said:


> 'who can give the snottiest response' competition.


Did I win?

Reactions: Funny 3


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## The Grym Reaper

SonsofArachne said:


> I'm just guessing, but you don't like being told when you're wrong, do you?


"Hurr durr, I'm never wrong, everything I say should be blindly accepted as fact, without question"

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Luka98

I hear what you guys are saying but you're all wrong

Reactions: Funny 2


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## ComputerDellLI



Reactions: Funny 2


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## Luka98

ComputerDellLI said:


>


We've got a shameless fence sitter here boys, get the pitchforks out


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