# nessesary bloodshed (new video)



## Meaningless End (Jul 29, 2007)

ok so i got allot of heat from people regarding my T videos... thats something i sort of expected.. but i figure this vid might be a little less controvertial and one that the reptile lovers here might enjoy...

i know some words are spelled wrong on the vid but im feeling to lazy to fix it.... so i dont care....



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_Wpo_kOExM


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## Goomba (Jul 29, 2007)

Great music.....FART


But seriously, nice monitors.


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## Meaningless End (Jul 29, 2007)

ya i kind of wanted to go a bit hevy metal with that one.. usually i listen to mostly clasic rock and alternative... but i figured for this vid some obnoxious metal was fitting


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## GailC (Jul 29, 2007)

You really think this vid is going to get less heat? what part of feeding live rats to a monitor is necessary? At least the snakes kill their prey fast, you give responsible reptile owners a bad name, sicko.


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## Texas Blonde (Jul 29, 2007)

I see no reason why the feeder animals had to be offered to the snakes live.  I only got a few seconds into the video to tell the truth.  As soon as I saw a live rat offered, I closed the tab.  Thats just reckless endangerment of the snake.


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## GailC (Jul 29, 2007)

Texas Blonde said:


> I see no reason why the feeder animals had to be offered to the snakes live.  I only got a few seconds into the video to tell the truth.  As soon as I saw a live rat offered, I closed the tab.  Thats just reckless endangerment of the snake.



It gets ALOT worse. All the snakes took their prey fast, the rats were killed quick and the snakes were not bit.

The monitors are ruthless killers and it was not a quick death for their food, one even swallowed the rat while it was still alive. Looks like the rat might have gotten some good bits in too. Poor monitors and rats, it was sickening.


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## Meaningless End (Jul 29, 2007)

and thats just the way things go.. most of the time i do pre kill my prey but sometimes i will let the animals have a go at it.  the green tree got prekilled and so did the tegu.  the macklots hold there own just fine... as far as reckless endangerment to an animal goes the monitors where never in any danger.  they have thick skin and can take a bite.  

one way or another the rats where going to die.  dont be such a hypocrite about it. are you telling me youve NEVER fed a rodent live to a reptile? everyone who has kept reptiles has at some point so dont feed me any bull.  if you eat meat your guilty of the same thing the monitors are in some way shape or form.


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## GailC (Jul 29, 2007)

I don't have a problem with feeding live as long as it is a quick death for the prey. My snakes get live some times but they don't shake and beat the mice senseless first.
To me the death of food does not need to be cruel. Do you really get a kick out of seeing small animals in pain?

There are enough people in this world who think reptiles are scary and/or dangerous with out people like you making horrid videos.

Oh, and the day you see me in a field killing a cow with my teeth is the day you can call me a hypocrite.


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## bugmankeith (Jul 29, 2007)

Your getting alot of bad ratings, so much for less of a hated argument..

If you just posted videos of your pets not being fed, then im sure you will get nice replies because people always find exotic species like that interesting to watch.

But since it's a public site there are many who would rather not see things get eaten alive and alot who will avoid watching your video.


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## Meaningless End (Jul 29, 2007)

waldo said:


> I don't have a problem with feeding live as long as it is a quick death for the prey. My snakes get live some times but they don't shake and beat the mice senseless first.
> To me the death of food does not need to be cruel. Do you really get a kick out of seeing small animals in pain?
> 
> There are enough people in this world who think reptiles are scary and/or dangerous with out people like you making horrid videos.
> ...


you dont have to kill someone with your hands to see that its killed.  If i pay the hitman to take you out im still guitly in a court of law.. 

you buying meat is just like paying the hitman... that means your guilty.

Live prey isnt something i feed on a dayly basis.. usually the rats get the swing first. but that dosent make as interesting of a video dose it?


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## Meaningless End (Jul 29, 2007)

bugmankeith said:


> Your getting alot of bad ratings, so much for less of a hated argument..
> 
> If you just posted videos of your pets not being fed, then im sure you will get nice replies because people always find exotic species like that interesting to watch.
> 
> But since it's a public site there are many who would rather not see things get eaten alive and alot who will avoid watching your video.


you may be correct.. but theyre will be just as many people who will want to watch..

im not here to please everyone... and i refuse to try.


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## JLDomestics (Jul 29, 2007)

I laugh at people who can't handle live feedings and then have to hate on other people in order to make themselves feel better. HAHAHA im laughing at you wimps. I have enjoyed your videos, and am patiently awaiting more. You need to add blood. If you don't want to watch things being eaten alive then what in the crap are you doing in this thread? I don't like going to church, and that's why you'll never see me there - I don't go there so I can moan and complain because I don't like being there, and no one should come here to complain about live feedings if they don't want to see any and have no right to be here in the first place.


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## sick4x4 (Jul 29, 2007)

snakes i understand, mine will only eat live prey but the monitors??? as you saw it was bitten several times and never fully killed the mouse/rat till alittle later....but i think you did get the reaction you were or were not trying to get....at what expense who knows but interesting vids as always


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## RoachGirlRen (Jul 29, 2007)

This isn't just a humane issue for the "cute and fuzzies." I'm more against live prey because I've seen the horrific damage and infection frightened prey animals can inflict. I aquired one of my pet mice because it mauled a man's snake severely, and he was going to let it loose in the dead of winter because he was "mad" at it. I'm mad at the snake's idiot owner for exposing it's animal to such peril! When I worked at the zoo, there was a beautiful python who died from a massive systemic infection from a tiny puncture from a mouse. I understand that some animals only eat live, but I don't understand why they're not at least stunned. All live prey that has any capacity to do harm (claws/teeth), IMO, should at LEAST be stunned, if not pre-killed, to prevent tradgedy. Anything less is irresponsible.

Beautiful herps, btw. I love the monitors. I do hope that you never have the misfortune of never experiencing any of them harmed by live prey.


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## arachi american (Jul 29, 2007)

JLDomestics said:


> I laugh at people who can't handle live feedings and then have to hate on other people in order to make themselves feel better. HAHAHA im laughing at you wimps. I have enjoyed your videos, and am patiently awaiting more. You need to add blood. If you don't want to watch things being eaten alive then what in the crap are you doing in this thread? I don't like going to church, and that's why you'll never see me there - I don't go there so I can moan and complain because I don't like being there, and no one should come here to complain about live feedings if they don't want to see any and have no right to be here in the first place.


that shouldnt be too long of a wait. =) the retic at the beginning was mine....ive got 3 others and a whitelip that do some van damage when they eat.  if i can get my video capture to work we got that albino ripping open the belly of a rabbit and dumping its intestines all over the cage.  got a mouth full of POOP in the process, the whole thing was very brutal, "so it goes".    people were PISSED about us tryin to kill a rat with androctonus venom, and when we posted a video showing the speed and agility of a heteroscodra maculata it was nothing but "wah wah youre not supposed to handle those spiders, you stressed it out..."

::sigh::  theres no reasoning with people on subjects that other people have already decided for them.  like <edit> evangelicals.

just so you vaginal ones out there dont get too offended, we DID make this video on how to properly kill a rat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n85RK12Meu8

that was my pet rat helen keller, i had her for a few months but her being around was driving my ball pythons crazy...theyre too small for her so i decided to make a lessen and a snack out of her.  so it goes.  brandon's on narration.


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## arachi american (Jul 29, 2007)

oh and none of those were venomous.  it that churns your stomach you should see a big gabby eat a rabbit.  or a hybrid helleri/atrox.  the rodent would break its own back spasming before the venom could kill it.  dang i need to film at craigs house some day. =)


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## JLDomestics (Jul 30, 2007)

Ha thats great arachi american. These forums need more people like you and need to ditch a few of the weeklings that post lame opinions like...I won't mention any names.


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## lychas (Jul 30, 2007)

mate thats just sick, you do not deserve otg keep herps "they will die one way or another" its your job as a keeper to make sure that even the prey animals do not suffer


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## eelnoob (Jul 30, 2007)

My post will be short, both videos were great:clap:


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## Mushroom Spore (Jul 30, 2007)

Meaningless End said:


> are you telling me youve NEVER fed a rodent live to a reptile? everyone who has kept reptiles has at some point so dont feed me any bull.


Actually, there are a great many people who don't feel the need to put small animals through needless pain for entertainment purposes. I'm one of them.

Stop trying to convince yourself you're in the majority.


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## Meaningless End (Jul 30, 2007)

Mushroom Spore said:


> Actually, there are a great many people who don't feel the need to put small animals through needless pain for entertainment purposes. I'm one of them.
> 
> Stop trying to convince yourself you're in the majority.


so can you honistly say youve NEVER fed live food to a reptile?  i didnt think so.

as far as the damage to the snakes go thats only going to happen by leaving prey in over night with the snake.  feeding off tongs and it isnt an ishue.


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## verry_sweet (Jul 30, 2007)

Ha trying to kill the rat…you are <edit> who has way to much time on his hands and you couldn’t even do that “experiment” (as you called it) correctly. All you did was torture the rat and cause the death of your scorp…yey for you. Yeah you’re definitely out doing what’s best for your animals…get real! Your doing it because you enjoy it. 

Please rationalize that fiasco for me….I would LOVE to hear all about it.

I didn’t even want to watch the educational vid of your “pet” rat…she was driving your balls crazy so she was taught the lesson? WT<edit> is wrong with you…hope you don’t have any kids…. but when you do I’ll wait for you to post the vid of when you get bored of them and try to teach them a lesson.

<edit>

:evil: Steph 


PS- I never had a problem with you guys handling your T’s (I really liked those vids) but the more I learned about your activities the more I began to hate what you do and even more so the fact that you keep animals…. YOU should be locked in a cage for the safety of all the animals you come in contact with.







arachi american said:


> that shouldnt be too long of a wait. =) the retic at the beginning was mine....ive got 3 others and a whitelip that do some van damage when they eat.  if i can get my video capture to work we got that albino ripping open the belly of a rabbit and dumping its intestines all over the cage.  got a mouth full of POOP in the process, the whole thing was very brutal, "so it goes".    people were PISSED about us tryin to kill a rat with androctonus venom, and when we posted a video showing the speed and agility of a heteroscodra maculata it was nothing but "wah wah youre not supposed to handle those spiders, you stressed it out..."
> 
> ::sigh::  theres no reasoning with people on subjects that other people have already decided for them.  like <edit> evangelicals.
> 
> ...


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## RoachGirlRen (Jul 30, 2007)

> as far as the damage to the snakes go thats only going to happen by leaving prey in over night with the snake. feeding off tongs and it isnt an ishue.


It's not like a rat or mouse needs 24 hours to elect to defend itself when something is killing it. A bite can happen the instant the snake and mammal make contact. My mouse that mauled the snake attacked it the second the snake came near. I was there when the snake who died at the zoo was bitten, and it was mere instants after the animal was placed in the tank. Tong feeding may reduce the chance of a bite, sure. But the fact of the matter is, it only takes a split second for an animal to deliver a puncture wound that can lead to serious and even fatal infections. Overnight is more likely to cause damage like this.
They're your animals, so what you ultimately chose to do is your choice. As I said, I really hope you never do have to experience an injury to one of your herps. But please do not give misleading information to other suggesting that there is no risk at all involved in feeding live unless the rodent is "in overnight!" I say this not as a "wimp" or "weakling" as some have rudely suggested in this thread, but as someone who doesn't like to see herps needlessly injured or killed when something as simple as stunning or pre-killing prey could have prevented it.


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## Hedorah99 (Jul 30, 2007)

JLDomestics said:


> Ha thats great arachi american. These forums need more people like you and need to ditch a few of the weeklings that post lame opinions like...I won't mention any names.


Wow. I suddenly feel the need to become a manly man by basking in your oozing machismo.  

The guys defending this thread have ultimatly made up their minds that they are some how doing this hobby a world of good. Its funny how when I have tried to make a point to local lawmakers that reptiles and exotics can be kept responsibly, a video just like this one always seems to crop up and be used against me. The actions boil down to child like stupidity bordering on sadism. Yes, I have fed live. I have fed live ONLY to wild caught snakes refusing any other source of nourishment. I truthfully don't have a problem with it, it is ultimatly your animal. But when you glorify the carnage, it hurts the hobby as a whole. The title of the thread indicates to me you just live for the negative attention, so you can be the "bad boy" of the boards or some other crap.


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## ChrisNCT (Jul 30, 2007)

*Yeah   !!!!!!!!!!!   THIS VIDEO RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!! I really love the monitors but then again, I do have a very dark side!   *


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## pinkzebra (Jul 30, 2007)

Hedorah99 said:


> Wow. I suddenly feel the need to become a manly man by basking in your oozing machismo.
> 
> The guys defending this thread have ultimatly made up their minds that they are some how doing this hobby a world of good. Its funny how when I have tried to make a point to local lawmakers that reptiles and exotics can be kept responsibly, a video just like this one always seems to crop up and be used against me. The actions boil down to child like stupidity bordering on sadism. Yes, I have fed live. I have fed live ONLY to wild caught snakes refusing any other source of nourishment. I truthfully don't have a problem with it, it is ultimatly your animal. But when you glorify the carnage, it hurts the hobby as a whole. The title of the thread indicates to me you just live for the negative attention, so you can be the "bad boy" of the boards or some other crap.



Well said.   :worship: :worship: :worship:


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## maxident213 (Jul 30, 2007)

Hedorah99 said:


> But when you glorify the carnage, it hurts the hobby as a whole.


Agreed 100%, not just on this point either.  Herp (& invert) keepers have enough of a bad image in the public's eyes without videos like this floating around, gleefully promoting live feedings.  I don't agree with how you (O.P.) feed your animals, but they are your animals, and you obviously feel that throwing rats in while they are still conscious is "nessesary."  I'm not going to try to argue you on this because what's the point?  My point is that if you follow the news at all, the only time you ever see herp (& exotic in general) keepers mentioned is when A - someone is bitten/injured/killed, or B - someone's something escapes.  This is bad press for our hobby, and it has been happening a LOT lately.  Lawmakers & politicians love to ban things, and with all this bad press, the only defense the hobby has is from the responsible keepers out there who can defend it, and and justify the keeping of these animals by showing that they are not ravenous killers who will eat every pet in the neighbourhood should they escape.  Videos like yours do not help the image of the hobby.  The average person watching your video is going to think the average herp keeper is a bloodthirsty moron who enjoys hearing rats die painfully.  The average person who is already against the keeping of exotic animals is going to see your video and find complete justification for continuing to push for a ban on them.  You don't come across as a conscientious keeper trying to provide a stress-free environment for healthy animals; more like someone who just enjoys carnage and watching things get devoured.  Why _wouldn't_ lawmakers & politicians put restrictions on these animals into place, if this is what people are doing with them?  

You can do whatever you want with your animals, man, but when you post up videos like this, it makes the entire hobby look bad, so don't ever wonder why people start giving you heat about it.


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## bugmankeith (Jul 30, 2007)

I hated the fact you take your pet rat and say your snake is annoyed by it, so you send it to death.

wt<edit> is so hard to move the rat cage into another room/location.

That is a lame excuse by you.

And why would we need a feeding demo, are we that dumb we dont know how to feed a snake? C'mon snakes feed themselves if live prey is dropped in. YOU only need to hold the prey if it's dead to make the snake think the prey is alive, and there are right/wrong ways to do that. If you wanted to show us how to feed a snake dead prey that would have been more educational minus the unnecessary death scene.

Another lame reason to post that video.

I will never buy any animals that need to eat large live prey like mice or anything larger, but I dont hate snakes and such I just wont own them because I dont like feeding prey like that, something other people may keep as pets.

I dont enjoy watching animals die especially when you know the prey has no chance at surviving, putting it in a cage is certain death and in the wild getting a meal is never always certain. I didnt even need to watch the video to know what will happen at the end. The videos here are all the same snake/lizard/tarantula kills helpless prey, people flock to videos, arguments start, yadda yadda yadda.

I dont think i'll post in these debate topics anymore I was trying to prove a point but as you know people take sides here and my posts usually dont make a difference anyway I have no friends here who back me up so my posts are useless.

it's too bad because I really liked this site and thought it would be fun.


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## JLDomestics (Jul 30, 2007)

Im the bad boy of these forums.


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## bugmankeith (Jul 30, 2007)

"Im the bad boy of these forums."

No i'm much badder, but you be the devil of the forums and i'll be the angel so you get kicked out and I stay.

And i'll stick to my opinion on the topic because my opinion (aswell as some others) are far from lame.


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## robbie (Jul 30, 2007)

I won't go on bashing your vid, but i will put my 2 cents in:  I believe if you can humanly feed your herps. you probably should.  IE: prekill their food.


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## JLDomestics (Jul 31, 2007)

bugmankeith said:


> "Im the bad boy of these forums."
> 
> No i'm much badder, but you be the devil of the forums and i'll be the angel so you get kicked out and I stay.
> 
> And i'll stick to my opinion on the topic because my opinion (aswell as some others) are far from lame.


Ive already been kicked from these forums and here I am.


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## Arachnoboards (Jul 31, 2007)

JLDomestics said:


> Ive already been kicked from these forums and here I am.


That's because we were nice and let you come back. Keep it up and we'll rethink our decision ...  

Oh an you are FAR from being the "bad boy of these forums".  

Debby


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## cacoseraph (Jul 31, 2007)

Arachnoboards said:


> That's because we were nice and let you come back. Keep it up and we'll rethink our decision ...
> 
> Oh an you are FAR from being the "bad boy of these forums".
> 
> Debby


am i?                       



indefinite article though. i would hardly aspire to be *the* badboy... but *a* badboy... perhaps.  i do only glorify hurting myself, however =P


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## pinktoe23 (Jul 31, 2007)

feeding live rodents for your own amusement to make them suffer is sick and unnecesary. but that video is not worse than the terrible pain you can see on this one  

[YOUTUBE]6yijl5I0ruk[/YOUTUBE]

your uncalled for pain and suffering of feeding prey is disturbing but that's my opinion.


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## JLDomestics (Jul 31, 2007)

Arachnoboards said:


> That's because we were nice and let you come back. Keep it up and we'll rethink our decision ...
> 
> Oh an you are FAR from being the "bad boy of these forums".
> 
> Debby


Nope that's not it at all, and eff, I am the forum bad boy.


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## Hedorah99 (Jul 31, 2007)

JLDomestics said:


> Nope that's not it at all, and eff, I am the forum bad boy.


You just go right on thinking that, and the rest of us will go on silently mocking you to ourselves...


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## Meaningless End (Aug 1, 2007)

you guys tell me to feed pre killed... guess what.. i do.  you can actually see me feeding my GYP pre killed in the video because he is the one i worry about.. the macks can handle themselves just fine.  ALL OF THEM GET PRE KILLED FOOD.. unless of course im making a video such as this one.
you say you guys don't want to see a video like this and that know one else dose either? 
well so far for the time its been up its managed to become my most popular video... my goal was to entertain people and so far people have been entertained. so i have no apology's.
i go from pet shop to pet shop quite often and i am familiar with quite a few of them. one thing that is a constant is that you can usually find a feed me a mouse for a dollar sign.  And all day people will buy a mouse to watch a monitor rip it to shreds.. parents, little kids, young old, black, white, doesn't matter.... do you consider that any worse then what i was doing?  are they "endangering the good of the hobby"  the fact is videos like this often bring people into the hobby far more offten then they drive people out.


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## pinktoe23 (Aug 1, 2007)

Meaningless End said:


> i go from pet shop to pet shop quite often and i am familiar with quite a few of them. one thing that is a constant is that you can usually find a feed me a mouse for a dollar sign.  And all day people will buy a mouse to watch a monitor rip it to shreds.. parents, little kids, young old, black, white, doesn't matter.... do you consider that any worse then what i was doing?  are they "endangering the good of the hobby"  the fact is videos like this often bring people into the hobby far more offten then they drive people out.


so you'd jump off a cliff if you see others doing it? Pet shops are certainly not the place to be looking for knowledge or role models. What you say doesn't surprise me given the fact most pet shops give wrong advice 70% of the time for the animals they sell and do not train their 16 yr old employees on proper care. 

I'm not trying to give you beef or anything like that but just because you see pet shops doing it doesn't mean its ok and safe. Any parents taking their kids there to watch or pay for a live mouse to squeak and moan in agony purely for their amusement should have their kids removed! Children are very impressionable and will imitate anything, the disturbing message you are teaching is not to respect feeding animals and get a kick off their agony and that IS irresponsible parenting. 

Pet shops don't care about agonizing and suffering prey if they can get people to buy their "NEW: AGGRESSIVE MONSTER EATERS" stock faster and they obviously don't care about their animals health either if they don't have a problem feeding several mouses per day to those animals. It's as healthy as doing the same with your tarantulas and feed them 6 or 8 crickets PER day if people pay you $1 for doing it. it's sick and irresponsible. not to mention childish and unnecesary.


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## Hedorah99 (Aug 1, 2007)

Yea, the old "but everyone else is doing it" excuse. I know other people are doing it, BUT THEY AREN"T PIMPING IT AS ENTERTAINMENT. That was my (and several others) point. It hurts the hobby. And I can assure you, if the pet store selling "feed the monitor a mouse" were here, it would be shut down. That goes beyond cruelty to the mice but into cruelty to the monitor.


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## skinheaddave (Aug 1, 2007)

I'm not surprised the video was made.  I'm not surprised that many people find it entertaining.  What does surpise me, Meaningless End, is that you would be surprised at people's reactions.  Did you honestly expect something different?

I know that some people fight their dogs.  I know that some people will film that.  I know that a good number of people will find that entertaining.  I also know that if you produce and broadcast that sort of thing, you are going to draw some flak.  I don't expect the dog fighters to understand WHY they are drawing flak (if they did, they wouldn't be participating in such a cruel sport in the first place) ... just that they ARE going to draw flak.

Cheers,
Dave


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## JLDomestics (Aug 2, 2007)

Hedorah99 said:


> You just go right on thinking that, and the rest of us will go on silently mocking you to ourselves...


Ok deal.

LLllLllllLll llLlllLll LLllllLlLll LLlllllllllLLL LLLllLLllLllll


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## arachi american (Aug 2, 2007)

i dont think theres really anything to argue about here.  some people get a kick out of stuff like that.  personally i like to stun my rats and give my rabbits painkillers (hope thats not illegal?) before theyre fed off.  but i get a sick twisted enjoyment out of seeing things go wrong and animals just get WRECKED.  it happens.  im sure theres a good percentage of herp enthusiasts that have varying degrees of that twistedness.  the peta folks are (publicly anyway) far on the other end of the spectrum, but its definately not a black and white issue.  feel how you want about it, bad things happen.  sometimes theyre caught on video.theres plenty of videos of people getting slaughtered all over the internet.  maybe some people should widen their scopes a bit.


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## arachi american (Aug 2, 2007)

oh and skinhead dave, while probably racist, makes a decent point.  we knew we were catchin heat for that one.

and ive personally learned quite a bit from every one of the experiences that we caught bits and pieces of on youtube.  most notably middle finger position when picking up dangerous scorpions


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## arrowhd (Aug 2, 2007)

Wow, what people will do just to get a little attention.


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## JLDomestics (Aug 2, 2007)

arrowhd said:


> Wow, what people will do just to get a little attention.


Yeah no doubt. They will watch videos of things they know they don't like, and then they have the nerve to complain about it.


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## JMoran1097 (Aug 2, 2007)

Meaningless End said:


> ok so i got allot of heat from people regarding my T videos... thats something i sort of expected.. but i figure this vid might be a little less controvertial and one that the reptile lovers here might enjoy...
> 
> i know some words are spelled wrong on the vid but im feeling to lazy to fix it.... so i dont care....
> 
> ...


seriously, what was the point of this? to call attention to you killing things? if you want to sit around and gripe about people's comments on your videos, i wouldn't encourage them by posting vids like this.


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## eelnoob (Aug 2, 2007)

JLDomestics said:


> Yeah no doubt. They will watch videos of things they know they don't like, and then they have the nerve to complain about it.




   

Can't wait for the next video


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## JLDomestics (Aug 3, 2007)

eelnoob said:


> Can't wait for the next video


Mee too. It needs to be a gory one, something to give these cowards an actual reason to complain, none of these wimpy pussy videos.


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## JMoran1097 (Aug 3, 2007)

JLDomestics said:


> Mee too. It needs to be a gory one, something to give these cowards an actual reason to complain, none of these wimpy pussy videos.


what is so fascinating about watching a snake attack and digest a mouse/rat/rabbit? it's always the same strike.


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## Meaningless End (Aug 3, 2007)

JMoran1097 said:


> what is so fascinating about watching a snake attack and digest a mouse/rat/rabbit? it's always the same strike.


thats like saying whats so fascinating about that snake sitting on the branch .. its alwayse the same snake.

everything about theise animals fascinates me. thats why i love them and am in this hobby...  

p.s.

i got a new suntiger today =]


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## ZooRex (Aug 3, 2007)

Wow, alot of good points have been made, too many to quote. I'm glad that so many here share my opionin that vids such as the ones on this thread only hurt the hobby in the long rung, not to mention being inhuman.

But I'm very surprised that anybody here would ever say something like this:


> what is so fascinating about watching a snake attack and digest a mouse/rat/rabbit? it's always the same strike.


Then whats the point of even owning a snake (much less a scorp or a T)? For me as long as I have the time (not falling asleep) I will always try and watch one of my snakes eat. I never get tierd of it, and I doubt I ever will. ~ Rex


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## jaycoheat (Aug 3, 2007)

This happens in the wild every day, no big deal to me. But the music did seem to make it a lil more disturbing.


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## verry_sweet (Aug 4, 2007)

JLDomestics said:


> Mee too. It needs to be a gory one, something to give these cowards an actual reason to complain, none of these wimpy pussy videos.


There is something wrong with you.

If you are trying to impress Meaningless End and arachi American then I doubt you are succeeding. Even though I do not agree with them on some issues they are much higher on the maturity level than you are and all in all are good keepers. We are all having a debate and you have had nothing positive or even worthwhile to contribute. I’m guessing your age is somewhere between 11 and 14. Please stop your annoying nonsense dribble and go clean your room or get some homework done. I guess people will do anything for a higher post count and to get some attention


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## Meaningless End (Aug 5, 2007)

verry_sweet said:


> There is something wrong with you.
> 
> If you are trying to impress Meaningless End and arachi American then I doubt you are succeeding. Even though I do not agree with them on some issues they are much higher on the maturity level than you are and all in all are good keepers. We are all having a debate and you have had nothing positive or even worthwhile to contribute. I’m guessing your age is somewhere between 11 and 14. Please stop your annoying nonsense dribble and go clean your room or get some homework done. I guess people will do anything for a higher post count and to get some attention



thanks... that was almost a compliment...well ... close enough anyway. 

about the last sentience of your thread. its not that we do anything to get the count up.. this is something we do because we love doing it. keeping exotic animals has always been a huge part of my life and i greatly enjoy it. everything in the videos we make is just stuff we do on a daily basis anyway... so why not put it on film? i know we have made some questionable videos that where a bit off kilter( mainly the scorpion one) but just because a video might not be positive or send a good message dose that mean that it should not be aired? i mean if you can post vids of people being blown up in Iraq then a couple rats dieing shouldn't be a big deal.


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## ctsoth (Aug 5, 2007)

Can we please have a single thread related to live feeding that is not completely hijacked?

Seriously, we all know what you think.
Keep it to yourselves for once, or start your own thread.  

At some point in your lives you're going to have to realize that different people have different ethical views.  I pray that someday ya'll will reach that realization.  After you figure out that people have differing views on morality you will also have to learn to accept them.  Good Luck, you're going to need it.  

The constant moral high ground "your a sicko" type statements are annoying at best.

In regards to the videos:

I found it interesting.  I was amazed by the speed and "efficiency" of the pythons in the video.

Notice how I haven't posted my moral opinion of the video?  I did not do so because it is not relevant to the discussion.  If the moral treatment of your feeders is very important to you [as it is to me, just keep in mind that our morals may differ], perhaps you should have a sticky put in place so all visitors are aware of your opinions.  That way moral opinions will not have to be shared on a regular basis, which derails threads completely.

I am serious by the way, I think that a sticky would be a good idea.  

I know that I come across as a bit cross in this post, but I am getting pretty annoyed that instead of coming across some decent discussion in many threads I read through 5-6 pages of "your sick."  Please keep the non-productive stuff to yourselves.  If you really want to stick it to the people who post videos such as this, do not reply to or even view [if the nature of the thread is obvious by the title] the threads.  That way the thread will just die, and if certain posts never get replies, people will stop posting things of that nature.

Finally, I think this board could be a better place if we could please learn to respect each other and our differing viewpoints just a little bit?
And before I am labeled as an evil live feeder, I have never fed live prey.


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## ZooRex (Aug 5, 2007)

> This happens in the wild every day, no big deal to me.


I understand where you are coming from, these animals have evolved in such a way where they eat live animals. But thats in the wild, not in captivity. In captivity there is no reason for us to feed live rodents. It is just causing pain that doesn't need to happen. Thawed rats give everything a snake needs just the same as a live rat. And keepers still get to watch the amazing strike and consumtion. For me the reason for owning exotics is not so that I can watch the painful demise of rodents. But thats me ~ Rex


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## JLDomestics (Aug 5, 2007)

verry_sweet said:


> There is something wrong with you.
> 
> If you are trying to impress Meaningless End and arachi American then I doubt you are succeeding. Even though I do not agree with them on some issues they are much higher on the maturity level than you are and all in all are good keepers. We are all having a debate and you have had nothing positive or even worthwhile to contribute. I’m guessing your age is somewhere between 11 and 14. Please stop your annoying nonsense dribble and go clean your room or get some homework done. I guess people will do anything for a higher post count and to get some attention


Why would I try to impress people online that I don't know and probably don't even live in the same country as? This isn't a dating site for hurtin people that are too cowardly to go find a date the old fashioned way! I cleaned my room yesterday, and it's summer - there isn't any homework you <silly-goose>.


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## Tim Benzedrine (Aug 5, 2007)

Aw come on, why does any kid try to impress anonymous people on the internet?

Sigh. I kept out of it for 4 pages. But, I guess it's time to speak up.....

I can't help but notice that the defenders of feeding live and posting the videos seem to get more pleasure from the reactions garnered than they do from the feeding themselves. Where I come from, we call this "trolling". Some pretend to be affronted by being called such things as 'sicko's" and  what-not. But before anything like those descriptions were launched, we had comments like these:



> _"I laugh at people who can't handle live feedings and then have to hate on other people in order to make themselves feel better. HAHAHA im laughing at you wimps. I have enjoyed your videos, and am patiently awaiting more. You need to add blood."_


Someone objects to your methods and tries to debate it semi-civilly with you and this is the response? That's pretty mature. But wait. There's more!



> _"just so you vaginal ones out there dont get too offended, we DID make this video on how to properly kill a rat."_


While there could be some value in a video showing how to properly euthanize a feeder animal humanely, taking time to explain that it was a pet rat that you merely got tired of negates any good intentions, IMO. It makes me wonder "So, what happens to the ball when this guy gets angry or bored with it? It gets fed to a monitor, I suppose". I suspect that tidbit about the rat being a pet was thrown into the conversation for added shock value, but I'll allow a benefit of a doubt there, albeit a tiny one.

Let's move on, shall we?



> _"Ha thats great arachi american. These forums need more people like you and need to ditch a few of the weeklings that post lame opinions like...I won't mention any names."_


I don't think that one needs additional comment. It speaks for itsself on a couple different levels.



> "_as far as the damage to the snakes go thats only going to happen by leaving prey in over night with the snake. feeding off tongs and it isnt an ishue._


Not really trolling there, but is disseminating false information. Which on boards like these might be considered a worse sin that trolling.

Now, admittedly your opponents start to turn up the heat but kindly notice who really started to be disrespectful first.



> "_Im the bad boy of these forums."_


Irrelevant, but I'm including it because it says something about the motivation of the posts. And it was pretty well shot down by one of the administrators themselves. Here is a hint. If you begin to draw the attention of authority figures on a privately-owned message board, it isn't a bad idea to consider lying low and or toning down the rhetoric. Especially when they fire a thinly veiled hint that that your posting privileges might come under review.

_



			"Mee too. It needs to be a gory one, something to give these cowards an actual reason to complain, none of these wimpy pussy videos."
		
Click to expand...

_Whew! That one was just blatant. Don't enjoy those sort of videos? Then you must be a coward.

In light of these illuminating posts and others, I'm pretty skeptical that these videos are made for educational purposes or to benefit the hobby in any manner. They might be useful in dissuading potential keepers from taking on something more than they have the stomach for, I suppose. And the argument for drawing more people into the hobby is a pretty thin one. If such videos as that were the main reason for deciding to take on a specimen, the reason for wanting said animal would be highly suspect, if you ask me.

However, they do strike me as a pretty handy excuse to call people "wimps" and imply that they are "pussies". Of course, you have the syntax incorrect when you do that. I think you mean "compassionate" and "humane" but I'll overlook those spelling errors.

For disclosure purposes: Have I ever live-fed prey? Yes. And I've been able to find it an interesting and yet still feel remorse for the prey animal. I don't have anything that requires anything larger than nightcrawlers and crickets at the moment, but ya know, I even feel a twinge of pity for them. I've never felt the urge to set up a heavy metal soundtrack and videotape the feedings for entertainment purposes, though.
I've killed wild game and taken pleasure in the success of the hunt, but took little pleasure in the actual death of my quarry. And whenever I killed anything, I ALWAYS took measures to insure that my prey did not suffer needlessly and that their deaths were as quick as I could possibly make them. And in the few instances where kills weren't as clean as they should have been, it pretty much ruined the experience.


I only include this last paragraph to illustrate that I am not some animal rights activist on the warpath. Or a wimp. In fact, I'm not even railing against the actions taken in this thread as much as the attitudes. I'm not a big fan of trolling.


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## JLDomestics (Aug 5, 2007)

Tim Benzedrine said:


> Aw come on, why does any kid try to impress anonymous people on the internet?


Good question. When you find the answer post it here.



Tim Benzedrine said:


> I can't help but notice that the defenders of feeding live and posting the videos seem to get more pleasure from the reactions garnered than they do from the feeding themselves. Where I come from, we call this "trolling". Some pretend to be affronted by being called such things as 'sicko's" and  what-not. But before anything like those descriptions were launched, we had comments like these


I think your exactly right, well mostly. I have never taken, nor posted a video ever before in my life. But given the reaction in this thread, I am going to make some gory gory gory ones and post them hear just because people will watch it, when they know it is something they are absolutely going to despise, and then they will rant and rave and rabble rabble about it. But your completely dead wrong about the "trolling" bit, trolling is a method used to catch fish. It <edit> works great and you need to try it.

<edit>


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## Meaningless End (Aug 5, 2007)

Tim Benzedrine said:


> Aw come on, why does any kid try to impress anonymous people on the internet?
> 
> Sigh. I kept out of it for 4 pages. But, I guess it's time to speak up.....
> 
> ...


_

this was a well thought out responce that got your point and opinon across verry well..  It didnot attack me in any way and when looking back on forums it is post's like theise that people actually pay attention to._


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## C_Strike (Aug 8, 2007)

Neccessary bloodshed? whats neccessary about it? lol
i cant see anything neccessary about any of it.
Dont mean to be rude but it really does bother me when people dont have respect for animals.
Please dont say you do, to me its that you have respect for what you want to have respect for... mainly belognings, you OWN the fauna, youl do as you please...
Thats not the best approach.
Respect the animal your feeding but truely respect the animal you are using as food!


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## froggyman (Aug 8, 2007)

i really love this comment


> this is the (badword) this is what having reptiles is about . who ever that invertkeeperguy is he sounds like a (bad word). he must spend to much time playing with his tube snake instead of a real one big myke loves it. all the haters (badword) off


 alphamalebigmyke sounds like a class act(check his profile)

p.s if my edit job is to raunchy you can delete it


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## JLDomestics (Aug 8, 2007)

C_Strike said:


> Neccessary bloodshed? whats neccessary about it? lol
> i cant see anything neccessary about any of it.
> Dont mean to be rude but it really does bother me when people dont have respect for animals.
> Please dont say you do, to me its that you have respect for what you want to have respect for... mainly belognings, you OWN the fauna, youl do as you please...
> ...


Umm bloodshed IS necessary. Some people like blood. Don't hate or discriminate on someone because they enjoy something that you don't. I don't have a clue in the world why people goto church and believe in GOD when frickin Santa Clause is more plausible than GOD, but I don't hate or discriminate on churchies or go into the church and start questioning what it is they are doing there. Plain and simple, if you don't want to watch these videos, then don't frickin watch them. Whining about it isn't going to help one bit.


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## froggyman (Aug 8, 2007)

so now you have the authority to say whether there is a god or not?


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## Meaningless End (Aug 8, 2007)

froggyman said:


> so now you have the authority to say whether there is a god or not?


everyone is intitled to there opinon about it... and do to the lack of phisical scientific evedence it will alwyase be just that.. a opinion.


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## Meaningless End (Aug 8, 2007)

C_Strike said:


> Neccessary bloodshed? whats neccessary about it? lol
> i cant see anything neccessary about any of it.
> Dont mean to be rude but it really does bother me when people dont have respect for animals.
> Please dont say you do, to me its that you have respect for what you want to have respect for... mainly belognings, you OWN the fauna, youl do as you please...
> ...


and i do... i respect the fact that it is a living thing and all living things must die.  "you made it suffer" boo freakin hoo.  

ya know i bet if i put the video to calssical or something you would have been way less bitter about it.


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## sick4x4 (Aug 8, 2007)

look what ever your predisposition is to live feeding or the later, something terrible has happened to this thread:wall:  where individuals are getting into dangerous ground and letting their emotions control their posts..come on guys!!!! its time to wave the white flag for both sides and let this thing just die....

there looks like there will be no compromise on either end and we all should just respect that....everyone is entitled to their own opinions... soo for all of you that dont like the live feedings??? just dont watch or post in a tread that doesn't have your vid in it.... simple as that.....and to those that do post the vids understand some people will say things emotionally based, it just comes with the territory.......everyone seems to want the last word and doesn't want to relinquish any ground....i just would hate for the mods to have to step in an moderate something that as adults, we are very capable of settling.......just my 2cents


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## Meaningless End (Aug 8, 2007)

sick4x4 said:


> look what ever your predisposition is to live feeding or the later, something terrible has happened to this thread:wall:  where individuals are getting into dangerous ground and letting their emotions control their posts..come on guys!!!! its time to wave the white flag for both sides and let this thing just die....
> 
> there looks like there will be no compromise on either end and we all should just respect that....everyone is entitled to their own opinions... soo for all of you that dont like the live feedings??? just dont watch or post in a tread that doesn't have your vid in it.... simple as that.....and to those that do post the vids understand some people will say things emotionally based, it just comes with the territory.......everyone seems to want the last word and doesn't want to relinquish any ground....i just would hate for the mods to have to step in an moderate something that as adults, we are very capable of settling.......just my 2cents


"raises flag"


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## kahoy (Aug 10, 2007)

enjoyment to others, cruelty to others...
human are social, but not communual...

this thread has the longest post ive ever seen...

im guilty that i never fed my scorps any vertebrates...


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## JLDomestics (Aug 10, 2007)

kahoy said:


> enjoyment to others, cruelty to others...
> human are social, but not communual...
> 
> this thread has the longest post ive ever seen...
> ...


Yeah I think I got at least 4 infractions in this stinking thread.


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## kahoy (Aug 11, 2007)

let me rephrase that...

i never fed any verts to my scorps...

but my crix and mealworms do enjoy some fried chicken... ;P

<edit>


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## Arachnoboards (Aug 14, 2007)

We're done here ...  


Debby


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