# Tarantula water dish sponge, also pesticide question.



## deviance1911 (May 13, 2013)

So I have a mexican red knee thats a decent sized Juvi, shes like 2 and a half inches almost with legs included.  Anyway I'm getting conflicting answers from friends, internet posts, and the petshop.  Should I use the sponge the gave me for her water dish or no? Shes pretty big to drown it in, IMO. Also I changed the water dish and cleaned it 4 days ago, however, its starting to smell a little, not a really bad smell but an interesting smell, I think its coming from the water dish.  I have stones I can use from a bamboo plant that are clean, would that be a better idea rather than a sponge? Again I have looked this up but everyone I ask has a diff answer to this.  Also 1 last question. Every 2 months or so my house has a guy come from pest control that sprays some sort of insecticide on the floor boards near the wall.  Could this be harmful to my T? or only if I bring her near the floor?  I know its safe on pets, but I'm curious if I should just instruct the guy to skip my room when spraying to avoid and accidental death.

Thanks guys for all of your help, im starting to really enjoy this hobby 

---------- Post added 05-13-2013 at 09:16 PM ----------

Also is 1-3 crickets a week sufficient? I just wanna make sure I'm not over feeding her since some people have told me I should feed her 5 crickets a week or something, I'm not trying to powerfeed her either so Just wanna make sure that 2-3 cricks a week is fine? I did order that tarantulas keepers guide haha so it should help me out with any future questions I have


----------



## EulersK (May 13, 2013)

Concerning the sponge - ABSOLUTELY NOT. It harbors mold, bacteria growth, and the tarantulas have trouble drinking from it. Just provide a dish of water (distilled, if you're extra paranoid like myself). 

Personally, I'd cease any and all pesticides being sprayed inside the home. If you want to spray outside, go for it, but I would greatly advise against using that indoors. You have a bug for a pet - spraying insecticide in your house is like spraying cyanide around your bed. If you MUST have pesticide sprayed, then at least skip the room that the tarantula is in.

I feel your pain - the internet and petstores are wrong about 95% of the time. This forum is very, very helpful  2 crickets a week is fine. But remember, it is totally fine to skip a week or two... or even a month, as long as they are fattened up. They have very slow metabolisms.

Welcome to the addiction!

Reactions: Like 2 | Helpful 1


----------



## deviance1911 (May 13, 2013)

EulersK said:


> Concerning the sponge - ABSOLUTELY NOT. It harbors mold, bacteria growth, and the tarantulas have trouble drinking from it. Just provide a dish of water (distilled, if you're extra paranoid like myself).
> 
> Personally, I'd cease any and all pesticides being sprayed inside the home. If you want to spray outside, go for it, but I would greatly advise against using that indoors. You have a bug for a pet - spraying insecticide in your house is like spraying cyanide around your bed. If you MUST have pesticide sprayed, then at least skip the room that the tarantula is in.
> 
> ...


Sounds good, I use bottled water, same thing but there are some good minerals in there for them, its better than tap water since that has chlorine and flouride in it

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Bongo Fury (May 13, 2013)

deviance1911 said:


> Should I use the sponge the gave me for her water dish or no?


:wall::wall::wall::wall::wall::wall::wall:_*NO!*_ And while you're at it, ignore everything else the pet store told you. Like saying your T is a year and a half old, pet stores rarely have a clue about Ts and it seems the one you visited fits the mold perfectly.


deviance1911 said:


> Could this be harmful to my T?


_*YES!*_ Tell them to skip your house entirely, not just the room your T is in.

All the answers to your questions can be found in a very helpful sticky at the top of the Q&D section entitled: READ before posting
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?153508-Beginner-Info-READ-before-posting

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## deviance1911 (May 13, 2013)

Lurker597 said:


> :wall::wall::wall::wall::wall::wall::wall:_*NO!*_ And while you're at it, ignore everything else the pet store told you. Like saying your T is a year and a half old, pet stores rarely have a clue about Ts and it seems the one you visited fits the mold perfectly.
> 
> _*YES!*_ Tell them to skip your house entirely, not just the room your T is in.
> 
> ...


Sorry, no need to get mad at me I'm still new at this. Its pretty annoying cause the store even told me to not listen to what the internet says. Goddamn this is annoying lol I'll trust you guys cause this forum seems to have more professionals its just a bit tricky to me cause I've never had to deal with a retailer that was like Oh yeah dont listen to the internet and then reading on the internet dont listen to the stores.  I'll listen to the forums like I said its just all new to me, give me a break atleast lol its a cluster@#$% of info, in addition I'm also training for my next match so I'm trying to juggle both at the same time. Sorry


----------



## EulersK (May 13, 2013)

I don't think he is mad at you, rather mad at the abundance of bad advice floating around. The internet and pet stores are less than useless. My first T was put through hell because of bad advice. Luckily, this forum and the book you mentioned straightened all that out. 

Here's some general advice, all of which will be in the book.
Can you post a pic of your enclosure? The T you bought is known as terrestrial (i.e. land dwelling), rather than arboreal (i.e. tree dwelling). Thus, not only is height not required, it is actually harmful. Even a small fall can kill a perfectly healthy T. Never exceed 2x the dls (diagonal leg span) in height. As for floor space, the average diameter should be roughly 3.5x dls. Yes, I know that seems small. Tarantulas in the wild rarely venture more than a couple feet from their burrow, and the same goes for in captivity. 

Always provide a hide. This will give the T a safe place to scurry off to in case it gets startled. If there is no hide and you startle it while you have the lid open, suddenly you have a loose (or even worse, dead) T on your hands. 

T's HATE light. With a passion. Never, ever, ever provide a lamp, and if you have your T enclosure next to a lamp (like I do), be sure to provide a hide. It's not that they're allergic to light - mine is eating it's dinner out in the open with a lamp on right now. They just don't prefer it. 

On the topic of lighting, there is zero need for a heat source. If you are comfortable, then so is the T. Personally, the room I keep my T's in dips down to 50 F during the winter, and I provide a ceramic bulb (i.e. no light, just heat). I fyou can't find those, use a red light. T's are blind to the color red, so that light won't bother them. But again, you most likely don't need this. 

What substrate ("bedding") are you using? Shredded coco husk is by far the most popular, especially among us newbies. Easy to maintain, easy to clean, and it works for nearly all species. 

Are you misting? If so, stop. The only humidity that the T needs will be provided by the water dish. It's a MEXICAN Red Knee. You know, from Mexico. A desert. Don't worry about humidity.

The water dish should be small enough that the T can "hover" over it - that is, have all legs on the periphery while it drinks. And yes, it will drink.

Here are some normal things a T does that may cause alarm in a newbie:
They seem to "munch" on their legs. This is grooming, nothing to worry about.
They get "bald spots". This is from throwing hair, which does not grow back until they molt.
If it loses a leg for whatever reason, don't fret, it will grow it back in 2-3 molts. 

If your T is ever climbing the glass, this is NOT normal. Something is bothering it - find it and fix it. My rose hair hasn't climbed the sides of her enclosure even once since I fixed all the bad advice. 

Last note! Because common names for T's can get out of hand, we prefer to use the scientific name. Remember, these aren't breeds of dogs - all dogs are of the same species. Tarantulas are all unique. You have a Brachypelma smithi, shortened to B smithi.

That's... all I can think of right now. I'm sure someone special will be by to drop even more info on you!

By the way, the book you bought? Yeah, the author is a member here

Reactions: Like 1 | Helpful 1


----------



## sugarsandz (May 13, 2013)

I have a B. emilia about the size you describe yours to be and I use a small water dish with a few stones in it so crickets can escape if need be. Your spider isn't going to drown at that size in a little water dish. When my sister got her rosea (now mine) she had a sponge and the poor thing would never use it, now she has a dish with just water and she uses it often enough for me to catch her.


----------



## deviance1911 (May 13, 2013)

EulersK said:


> By the way, the book you bought? Yeah, the author is a member here


Yeah he sent me his newby post haha

---------- Post added 05-13-2013 at 11:31 PM ----------

also my enclosure is a temp one I'm buying a terrestrial one tomorrow. I'll take pics tomorrow and show you ok?  Add me as a contact here Ill send you a pic of my setup, also i have that coco substrate.


----------



## Poec54 (May 13, 2013)

deviance1911 said:


> Sounds good, I use bottled water, same thing but there are some good minerals in there for them, its better than tap water since that has chlorine and flouride in it


+1.  I always use bottled water, spring water whenever possible.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## deviance1911 (May 14, 2013)

How often should I clean her substrate? Like replacing substrate? I know to remove carcasses from crickets.


----------



## EulersK (May 14, 2013)

deviance1911 said:


> How often should I clean her substrate? Like replacing substrate? I know to remove carcasses from crickets.


Don't worry about replacing substrate unless you have a mite infestation or mold has gotten out of hand. If you see mold, just spot clean. If your T doesn't eat a cricket within a couple days, remove it. Don't really worry about spider poop (the white stuff) - it's not water soluble, so bacteria will not grow on it. It's just ugly, is all. 

I occasionally remove substrate that has been webbed over during her "cricket dance", because I know that was not meant to be a permanent part of her enclosure. Don't remove webbing in or around its hide, as that was likely put there for a reason. 

Luckily, since you never have to mist or keep wet substrate, mold and mites shouldn't really be an issue. I've had to spot clean a few times in my sling enclosures, since you have to keep them so humid. The only cleaning I've done in my rosie's enclosure are things that bothered me (poop, random webbing, etc) but likely didn't make a difference to her. 

You mentioned that you are getting a new enclosure. Listen, your T isn't going to die if it stays where it is for awhile. Get all of your ducks in a row. Post pictures, get advice, read the book, and make sure you're set on the enclosure before transferring. What you want to avoid is bothering the T more than is needed. I'm speaking from experience. Like I said, my rosie went through hell because I kept learning about what I should and shouldn't do with her enclosure. I transferred her three times in the span of two months. Thankfully, she's perfectly happy and healthy now, but I caused her a lot of undue stress. Again, here is a checklist for your enclosure:

No more than 2 dls in height (preferably 1.5 dls)
At least 3.5 dls in diameter
Coco substrate
Water dish with a rock so crickets don't drown
Secure lid
No wire lids (like this one: http://ducatipartsblowout.com/misc/240g/tank top screen 1a.jpg), as they can get their legs caught
A hide it can comfortably fit into (not too large!)

Anything else is pure preference. Personally, I like to make my enclosures look cool, so I add stones and whatnot. Here is a picture of mine to give you an idea of the guidelines I've posted. In all honesty, it may be a little too tall in some areas, but I don't worry since she never climbs.


----------



## LuiziBee (May 14, 2013)

Unless you have a bad mold or bug or mite issue or it stinks, you really don't need to change the substrate. But if you really want to, I'd say every year to three seems pretty common, besides re housing for growing tarantulas. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## deviance1911 (May 14, 2013)

EulersK said:


> Don't worry about replacing substrate unless you have a mite infestation or mold has gotten out of hand. If you see mold, just spot clean. If your T doesn't eat a cricket within a couple days, remove it. Don't really worry about spider poop (the white stuff) - it's not water soluble, so bacteria will not grow on it. It's just ugly, is all.
> 
> I occasionally remove substrate that has been webbed over during her "cricket dance", because I know that was not meant to be a permanent part of her enclosure. Don't remove webbing in or around its hide, as that was likely put there for a reason.
> 
> ...


Wow I think she totally tried to attack me today .  I was replacing her water dish cause her cage is tiny and it had a log hide but I removed it when I was cleaning it and never put it back in, so I removed the dish and put the log on the other side to not annoy her.  Then I prodded her with a brush into the hide so I would have room to place her water. Only issue the water kinda made her it hard for her to get out so I got a Gatorade bottle cap and filled that up since its smaller and not as high.  Anyway this morning I did something dumb which was brush agagainst her hind legs to coax her out to get the water and she bolted REALLY REALLY FAST, and tried to get out of the container, I cant tell but it seemed like she was attacking the brush or trying to escape the cage.  Was this cause she thought it was food? or was that just cause she was scared and the cage is so tiny that she didn't have anywhere else to go?  I feel like I'm getting more progressively scared of her :/  I hope this is just a thing shes gonna do as a juvinile, I'm not interested in handling her since I know its dangerous for her I just wish I wouldn't be so scared and I'm pretty mad at myself for doing that this morning.  Did she do that out of anger? lol I feel that she hates me now 

maybe I should change tools? I've heard from other forums before that sometimes the brush hairs irritate them? Any ideas?


----------



## Kazaam (May 14, 2013)

The only reason why people put stones in the waterdish is so that the crickets or other feeders don't drown, as they're not as intellectually gifted as tarantulas.

Also one cricket a week is more than enough.

Stop listening to your friends and the petstore, they both sound like they have no idea what they're doing.


----------



## deviance1911 (May 14, 2013)

I gotcha I was just talking about why she tried to attack me today lol.


----------



## Bongo Fury (May 14, 2013)

deviance1911 said:


> Any ideas?


Stop bothering it so much, it doesn't need or appreciate your constant attention/care. 1) Feed it. 2) Make sure the dish has water. 3) Remove any cricket remains. Anything else will just stress your T out for no good reason.


----------



## deviance1911 (May 14, 2013)

Whoops my bad didnt see ur comment sorry


----------



## LuiziBee (May 14, 2013)

Tarantulas can't hate. She's probably just stressed. Just let her chill out for a few days. You could be bothering her too much. No need to worry. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Bongo Fury (May 14, 2013)

deviance1911 said:


> Can someone still answer that question for me tho? The one I posted about her behavior regarding attacking me?  I'm just worried she hates me


Was my answer not the one you were looking for?:sarcasm: Tarantulas aren't capable of emotion. The "hate" you are experiencing is just her natural defensive instincts. If something large came into your home and started harassing you, what would your reaction be?


----------



## LuiziBee (May 14, 2013)

I second this. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## deviance1911 (May 14, 2013)

Lurker597 said:


> Was my answer not the one you were looking for?:sarcasm: Tarantulas aren't capable of emotion. The "hate" you are experiencing is just her natural defensive instincts. If something large came into your home and started harassing you, what would your reaction be?


No no no, I was at work the computers were acting up a bit and I didnt see you're post as it was on page 2, I thought there would be another post on the first page. Sorry no your post was very helpful thanks for answering tho  much appreciated


----------



## EulersK (May 14, 2013)

I can't say I understand why you removed its hide to clean. That's why I brought up the hide in the first place - give it a place to scurry off to. If you remove that (or even move it), you're changing the game. In the pic I posted, did you see how I actually buried the hide under some substrate? I never remove that thing. My rosie used to be extremely skittish, and she would bolt into that hole every time I some much as bumped the table she's on. Don't remove the hide. The tarantulas are smarter than newbies give them credit for. You clean the rest of the cage, it will take care of the hide. 

Also, as others have said, it doesn't "hate" you. If they could hate, then my rosie is a spawn of Satan. She throws a defense posture when I open the cage, she sometimes charges my hand when I'm changing/cleaning water, etc. Just like any other animal, all individuals have a personality to speak of. My GBB is the most relaxed bug I've ever seen, it's amazing.


----------



## deviance1911 (May 14, 2013)

EulersK said:


> I can't say I understand why you removed its hide to clean. That's why I brought up the hide in the first place - give it a place to scurry off to. If you remove that (or even move it), you're changing the game. In the pic I posted, did you see how I actually buried the hide under some substrate? I never remove that thing. My rosie used to be extremely skittish, and she would bolt into that hole every time I some much as bumped the table she's on. Don't remove the hide. The tarantulas are smarter than newbies give them credit for. You clean the rest of the cage, it will take care of the hide.
> 
> Also, as others have said, it doesn't "hate" you. If they could hate, then my rosie is a spawn of Satan. She throws a defense posture when I open the cage, she sometimes charges my hand when I'm changing/cleaning water, etc. Just like any other animal, all individuals have a personality to speak of. My GBB is the most relaxed bug I've ever seen, it's amazing.


Because the pet store is full of morons and they sold me an arboreal setup which  I am exchanging today for a terrestrial one.  I removed her hid to put in the new one but to my horror she started climbing the wall and I was afraid she would fall so I put her in the old setup but I didnt put the hide back in with her.  Anyway I love your setup I'm gonna steal that buried hide idea if you dont mind?


----------



## EulersK (May 14, 2013)

Just make sure you're happy with the enclosure once you're done. No more major changes after this one. The first time is excusable ignorance, the second time is hastened carelessness. Like I said, post a picture of your final enclosure BEFORE transferring your T. Get some feedback. Adding a few small decorations later on is fine (like the rocks in mine), but you don't want to mess with it's hide or any other major structures until... well, ever. Unless there is an emergency, of course.


----------



## deviance1911 (May 14, 2013)

EulersK said:


> Just make sure you're happy with the enclosure once you're done. No more major changes after this one. The first time is excusable ignorance, the second time is hastened carelessness. Like I said, post a picture of your final enclosure BEFORE transferring your T. Get some feedback. Adding a few small decorations later on is fine (like the rocks in mine), but you don't want to mess with it's hide or any other major structures until... well, ever. Unless there is an emergency, of course.


Ok sure np, I'll post a pic of it rather than starting a new thread after I get off work and set it up.  Let me know what you think of it when I post it. Should I buy a larger log hide btw? the one I have is a Ok size but she fits perfectly in it, if she was any larger it might be too big.  Should I buy a bigger hide? Or would digging out the hole be a smarter idea?


----------



## EulersK (May 14, 2013)

deviance1911 said:


> Ok sure np, I'll post a pic of it rather than starting a new thread after I get off work and set it up.  Let me know what you think of it when I post it. Should I buy a larger log hide btw? the one I have is a Ok size but she fits perfectly in it, if she was any larger it might be too big.  Should I buy a bigger hide? Or would digging out the hole be a smarter idea?


The point of the hide is to have a dark, cool retreat for them to go into. As long as those two criteria are met, you're in business. The one I'm using for my ~4.5" dls rosie is just under 4" in diameter (the inside diameter, ignoring the thickness of the wood). She seems very comfortable in it. Further, my GBB sling made its own hide out of web. The GBB is ~2cm dls, and the hide it made is just under 2cm. Finally, my P. irminia sling (3cm dls) has made a nice burrow at a mere 2cm. Those legs sure to scrunch up  So, basically, I'm personally going to continue to provide hides that are a little larger than their dls. They all seem comfortable in a hide a little smaller than their dls, but too large is better than too small.

I didn't just bury the hide for aesthetic reasons, though that certainly was one of them. I also did that because tarantulas instinctively dig down when they are hot in order to cool off.* By making her hide at an angle going into the "ground", she has that need met. Further, by burying it, I find that it is far darker for her, so she appears to love it. She spends her days in there, and twilight until morning hours roaming about (or sitting just outside her hide). Finally, I did it to provide her with more surface area to roam about. For some reason, she has taken to eating her meals on top of her hide, like you saw in the picture. 

In short: get a hide that has an interior diameter of ~3". I believe you said your T was 2" dls? If that's the case, it will continue to grow. By buying large, that means you won't have to replace it for some time. As long as the hide isn't so large that your T won't notice the difference between a hide and out in the open, you're fine.

Short on money and don't want to drop $15+ on a log hide from a pet store? PVC pipe works wonders, and is only a couple of dollars.

*Side note: That being said, NEVER use a heat pad under the enclosure if you must provide heat. The T will get hot, dig down, get hotter, dig deeper, and suddenly you have a cooked T. Recall, though, that you most likely don't need a heat source.


----------



## EightLeggedFreaks (May 14, 2013)

The pic you posted looks fine for an enclosure to me, other then the substrate, no clue what that is!  But leave it anyways you don't want to stress her out anymore than you have.  But I don't see a need to exchange that enclosure.


----------



## EulersK (May 14, 2013)

EightLeggedFreaks said:


> The pic you posted looks fine for an enclosure to me, other then the substrate, no clue what that is!  But leave it anyways you don't want to stress her out anymore than you have.  But I don't see a need to exchange that enclosure.


That's actually my enclosure, not the OP's. I'm using coco husk, it's very common. The pet store sold him an arboreal enclosure, so it certainly does need to be exchanged.


----------



## EightLeggedFreaks (May 14, 2013)

Oh, it looks like sand! LOL I guess I should have payed more attention to who posts what.   Arboreal containers could always be flipped on their side!  But I have no idea what his looks like.


----------



## deviance1911 (May 14, 2013)

Here, shes got a nice hide, ceiling isnt too high, and more room in the back to move around near the hide. Decided to give her my sugar skull I got in mexico since shes a mexican spider hehe. 

Also when I moved her into this cage she was moving super slow inside even when I touched her with the brush is she ok? or just freaked out cause shes in the new cage? She didn't even touch her cricket . I know they dont always eat tho lol







---------- Post added 05-14-2013 at 08:19 PM ----------

Yay nvm she got the cricket lol shes doing the cricket dance now with her webbing :3


----------



## EulersK (May 14, 2013)

Wait a week before feeding it. Or two weeks. The abdomen looks plump, so it won't starve. Until then, _leave it alone_. Stop prodding it, you're only going to stress it. My P. irminia sling didn't move an inch for three days after I put it in it's enclosure. 

Personally, I wouldn't like the piece of drift wood in there. Crickets like to get into crevices in there and not leave, making it impossible for the T to find them. Remember, T's are ambush predators. If the cricket is hiding, the T doesn't get to eat. You could always nuzzle the crickets out with a pair of long tweezers (which you should seriously buy, mine are 10" are are invaluable), but that's too much work in my opinion.

Can we get a bird's eye view of the enclosure? And one at a similar angle to the photo I posted? It looks like there is quite a bit more to the enclosure than what the picture shows. From what I can see, though, it looks great. Cool looking.


----------



## JZC (May 14, 2013)

Moving is traumatic for them. And that sugar skull isn't made of sugar, is it? If it is, you will have a mite problem before you can blink. Most tarantulas, especially new worlds, move very slowly and deliberately. Don't feed them for about a week or so or disturb them at all when they are adjusting to a new enclosure. Not to be rude, but when your copy of TKG arrives, I suggest you read it cover to cover.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## deviance1911 (May 14, 2013)

EulersK said:


> That's actually my enclosure, not the OP's. I'm using coco husk, it's very common. The pet store sold him an arboreal enclosure, so it certainly does need to be exchanged.


Lemme know what you think of the enclosure, skittles loves it lol she cant find the other cricket I let 2 small ones out she got 1 the other went missing :/ i cant find it.


----------



## Bongo Fury (May 14, 2013)

deviance1911 said:


> Here, shes got a nice hide, ceiling isnt too high, and more room in the back to move around near the hide. Decided to give her my sugar skull I got in mexico since shes a mexican spider hehe.


Ceiling looks too high. Also, it's usually better to wait a few days after rehousing to feed.


----------



## deviance1911 (May 14, 2013)

No its just called a sugar skull its mexican symbol of death or something. http://www.mexicansugarskull.com





Better view, I might remove the drift wood and then just make a buried hide like you did honestly, shes eating atm I'll do it tomorrow.  I might increase the soil level what do you think?

---------- Post added 05-14-2013 at 08:51 PM ----------




Lurker597 said:


> Ceiling looks too high. Also, it's usually better to wait a few days after rehousing to feed.


The petstore screwed me they said I can only get store credit and this is the best I could find with the lowest ceiling, I already wasted money on the first one this ones staying... However what would you recommend to make it safer?  Last cage was twice as high.

---------- Post added 05-14-2013 at 08:54 PM ----------

Lol please don't tell me i need to get a new one again, I had a super stressful day and the pet store owner was being a dick about the situation as it is. I just want a cage that my T can have room in, looks roomy, suggestions are welcomed though on any modifications you guys feel are necessary?


----------



## Bongo Fury (May 14, 2013)

deviance1911 said:


> The petstore screwed me they said I can only get store credit and this is the best I could find with the lowest ceiling, I already wasted money on the first one this ones staying... However what would you recommend to make it safer?  Last cage was twice as high.


Go to the dollar store and get a plastic container approximately 8x8x8 inches and put 5 inches of substrate in it, a cork bark hide, and a small plastic bottle cap for water. Then put the ZooMed on craigslist because it will never be appropriate for your B. smithi. Sorry, but that's what I'm honestly recommending you do.


----------



## EulersK (May 14, 2013)

Sugar skulls are usually edible, so that was a legitimate question.

Back on topic - WHOA. Way, _way_ too tall. Way. That looks like a good 6x dls, if not more. A fall from the top would certainly kill the T. If possible, you need to add a LOT of substrate to lower the height. I can't see how the enclosure opens, but it looks like adding substrate isn't an option. That's another arboreal enclosure, so it opens from the front, not the top. This is why I asked you to post a pic first, before transferring. 

Don't tell me that the pet store doesn't have critter catchers. Or aquariums. Or anything better than that. Get out of the reptile isle and get into the aquarium isle. At least with those you can keep adding substrate until it's a safe height. 

I don't see any hide to speak of, only a bunch of decoration. Functionality comes first, then decoration. 

I'm sorry, I don't mean to seem rude or angry, but that enclosure is 100% unacceptable, and you saying "this one's staying" is simply irresponsible. Like me, you decided to buy a pet without doing enough research before hand. Beginner's mistake, it happens all the time. But it's time to fix it, and saying that the T will just have to deal with it is not good enough for me.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## deviance1911 (May 14, 2013)

UGHHHHHHHHHh. I wanna kill myself jesus. EulersK what kind of cage is that you have can you link it to me online?

---------- Post added 05-14-2013 at 09:02 PM ----------

Ughhh no ones gonna wanna buy this crap on craigslist >.> anyone on here need a aboreal cage? sigh


----------



## EulersK (May 14, 2013)

What I bought is made specifically for tarantulas. It was about $150, including shipping. I can't say where, but Google "Tarantula cages", and it'll be on there.


----------



## Bongo Fury (May 14, 2013)

deviance1911 said:


> UGHHHHHHHHHh. I wanna kill myself jesus. EulersK what kind of cage is that you have can you link it to me online?
> 
> ---------- Post added 05-14-2013 at 09:02 PM ----------
> 
> Ughhh no ones gonna wanna buy this crap on craigslist >.> anyone on here need a aboreal cage? sigh


I got my Exoterra off of CL, came with a free G. rosea.:biggrin:


----------



## EulersK (May 14, 2013)

What I would do is go in there and demand a refund. Don't ask for it. They gave you wrong information, something that put the T's life in danger. They shouldn't be giving you advice when they don't know the first thing about the animal.


----------



## deviance1911 (May 14, 2013)

Its fine my cousin is a lawyer he just called them and told them they are false advertising products, and convinced the guy to give me a refund, im going to a fish store and getting a fish tank


----------



## EulersK (May 14, 2013)

Like I said, just fill it with substrate until it's a safe height. You don't want a mesh lid, because a leg can get caught. However, if that's all you can find, that's fine. The T shouldn't feel the need to climb anyway. And this time, please, please post a picture before transferring.


----------



## Bongo Fury (May 14, 2013)

deviance1911 said:


> Its fine my cousin is a lawyer he just called them and told them they are false advertising products, and convinced the guy to give me a refund, im going to a fish store and getting a fish tank


A fish tank will not have a proper lid and will probably be too deep without putting tons of substrate in. I'm going to strongly recommend a plastic critter keeper. Go to a different pet store and pick one up, they're usually under $20.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## EulersK (May 14, 2013)

Lurker597 said:


> A fish tank will not have a proper lid and will probably be too deep without putting tons of substrate in. I'm going to strongly recommend a plastic critter keeper. Go to a different pet store and pick one up, they're usually under $20.


+1
Not to mention that the aquarium will look like hell. You will be able to find a lid, but it's not ideal.


----------



## deviance1911 (May 14, 2013)

Ok but they said store credit only, they are willing to return it, store policy only allows store credit, what will I do with a top? I just want something safe from their pet store, they have my 70$.... Im not throwing it away.

---------- Post added 05-14-2013 at 10:28 PM ----------

Would a regular fishtank work? They only have reptile/T cages, and a fish tank, screw it im going with the fish tank atleast I can keep adding substrate to lower ceiling.  Is the humudity level gonna be affected by the lid or no? Can I get another lid from somewhere else?

On the bright side, I was able to hold my T for the first time and she was being a sweetie. so 1+ for me being able to hold her lol, I swear shes got multiple personalities


----------



## EulersK (May 14, 2013)

Yeah, just use an aquarium. Don't ever worry about humidity. Like I said before, it's called a Mexican Red Knee. Most of Mexico is a desert. Just provide a water dish and you'll be fine.

As for a lid, you'll likely only be able to find a wire mesh lid. Make sure it's not screen! Tarantulas can chew through those. The wire mesh isn't ideal, here's why: if the T decides to climb, it can get a foot caught in the mesh, resulting in a fall and/or losing a leg. As I said earlier, losing a leg isn't much to worry about, but the fall is. Just make sure there isn't much height and no sharp pointy objects for it to fall onto. 

Another option is something they may be able to order if they don't have it in store. It's basically an acrylic lid, something I saw at Petco. Chances are that you'll have to settle with the wire mesh lid, though. 

Now it's time for us to turn lemons into lemonaid. You're going to have to use a LOT of substrate, that's unavoidable. But now you can take my idea of having a submerged hide and take it to the extreme. Get a piece of PVC pipe and stick that sucker in there, making a very long, very roomy, very dark hide. Your T will love it. Just don't make it vertical, of course. I wouldn't exceed a 30 degree angle. 

Remember what I said - your T needs less room than you think! The floor area on the last pic you posted was good, just get rid of the excessive decorations. The skull is fine, maybe a smaller piece of driftwood (saw what you have), and the water dish is great. 

You're going to want more T's, so you don't want a bunch of wasted space in one enclosure when that space should be used for more buddies!

Final thoughts:
In the future, do your research on what species to buy and what each one requires. Again, these are not dogs - a Shih-Tzu and a Pitbull require roughly the same care. A P. irminia and a G. rosea require basically opposite care regimes.  What do you like in T's? Colorful? Big? Small? Aggressive? Potent venom? Use that and narrow down your possible options.

I'm going to say this again. Post. A. Picture. Before. Transferring. Get feedback! Just use this thread, you have a few users willing to help.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## deviance1911 (May 14, 2013)

EulersK said:


> I'm going to say this again. Post. A. Picture. Before. Transferring. Get feedback! Just use this thread, you have a few users willing to help.


Ok sure I promise I'll post a pic ahead of time before I transfer her, I'm so happy I got to hold her today she was being nice for once lol, but I'm not gonna tempt fate and try that again.  Anyway thanks again for all your help I'll follow your instructions, I'll see what I can do with the pvc pipe if not ill just copy what you did


----------



## Bongo Fury (May 14, 2013)

deviance1911 said:


> Ok but they said store credit only, they are willing to return it, store policy only allows store credit, what will I do with a top? I just want something safe from their pet store, they have my 70$.... Im not throwing it away.
> 
> ---------- Post added 05-14-2013 at 10:28 PM ----------
> 
> ...


When I was newer to the hobby, I spent hours looking at the picture threads in the Terrarium and Vivarium section. Check it out, some great info in there.

Looks like your typical 5.5 gallon aquarium measures 16 3/16 x 8 3/8 x 10 1/2, this still seems pretty big, but if you fill it up with substrate it might work. I wouldn't worry about humidity, just keep a bit of water in the dish and you'll be fine. With a screened lid i'd be more concerned about the T getting a tarsal claw caught in the mesh. You could make your own lid, ever cut any  plexiglass?

Hate to be a downer but if your pet store is anything like the ones here, there won't be a single appropriate enclosure for sale other than the kritter keepers.


----------



## deviance1911 (May 14, 2013)

Lurker597 said:


> When I was newer to the hobby, I spent hours looking at the picture threads in the Terrarium and Vivarium section. Check it out, some great info in there.
> 
> Looks like your typical 5.5 gallon aquarium measures 16 3/16 x 8 3/8 x 10 1/2, this still seems pretty big, but if you fill it up with substrate it might work. I wouldn't worry about humidity, just keep a bit of water in the dish and you'll be fine. With a screened lid i'd be more concerned about the T getting a tarsal claw caught in the mesh. You could make your own lid, ever cut any  plexiglass?
> 
> Hate to be a downer but if your pet store is anything like the ones here, there won't be a single appropriate enclosure for sale other than the kritter keepers.


I'm gonna cut my own plexiglass then haha my dad knows how to do that I'll ask him.


----------



## EulersK (May 15, 2013)

deviance1911 said:


> I'm gonna cut my own plexiglass then haha my dad knows how to do that I'll ask him.


Perfect! That's really great. Just don't forget the air holes! Due to the size of the T, you could simply drill holes in the lid without worry of it escaping. As for securing the lid, I'd recommend either weighting the lid (bathroom tiles work wonders), or finding a way to clamp it on.


----------



## EightLeggedFreaks (May 15, 2013)

EulersK said:


> Perfect! That's really great. Just don't forget the air holes! Due to the size of the T, you could simply drill holes in the lid without worry of it escaping. As for securing the lid, I'd recommend either weighting the lid (bathroom tiles work wonders), or finding a way to clamp it on.


If he cuts the plexiglass perfectly he doesn't need clamps.   But I'd still use clamps.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## deviance1911 (May 15, 2013)

Ok well I got the cage, haven't set it up yet, I figure I'm gonna staple a piece of cheese cloth that's soft and lets air through, the top lid from underneath so she can't get her paws stuck, that should keep it safe for a day or 2 at-least.  And it allows her to breath through it.  What do you guys think sound good? Better than just having the mesh screen which has bigger holes on the fish tank. I can either staple it to the screen from underneath the lid OR I can just lay it flat across the top and lay the lid on, only issue with that is the cloth will collapse in if she sits on it ONLY if I open the lid.


----------



## EulersK (May 15, 2013)

I'm not a fan of the cloth. The T really shouldn't try to chew through it, but the fact remains that it _can_. These little devils are escape artists, and that is a weak point in your system. I think drilling holes is honestly the best, easiest, and cheapest option. Just don't make the holes larger than the abdomen, which you shouldn't have any trouble doing. 

Drill evenly spaced holes all over the lid. You don't have to worry about retaining humidity, so you can't drill too many.


----------



## deviance1911 (May 15, 2013)

Lol drill holes in where? Its a mesh screen...., like pretty decent sized holes too, the cloth is just a temporary thing for a day or 2, I'll keep a close eye on her, if she starts chewing it ill put her back in her old enclosure and wait.  I'm gonna get the plexi glass tomorrow and fit it, and then drill holes in that  Sound good? Like I said the cloth is not a permanent thing its gonna be there for 1-2 days MAX

---------- Post added 05-15-2013 at 12:58 PM ----------




EulersK said:


> I'm not a fan of the cloth. The T really shouldn't try to chew through it, but the fact remains that it _can_. These little devils are escape artists, and that is a weak point in your system. I think drilling holes is honestly the best, easiest, and cheapest option. Just don't make the holes larger than the abdomen, which you shouldn't have any trouble doing.
> 
> Drill evenly spaced holes all over the lid. You don't have to worry about retaining humidity, so you can't drill too many.


Also I have dry substrate and slightly damp substrate. Can I put the wet one on the base of the enclosure and then just layer most of it with the dry? Or is wet out of the question? I was gonna make 1 inch wet and 3-4 inches dry substrate


----------



## Cydaea (May 15, 2013)

A layer of damp under a layer of dry substrate is okay, but watch out for mold.  As long as the T can keep her feet dry, you're good.


I think people mean by ' drilling holes' , you make a lid out of acrylic or any other plastic and drill holes through that.

Also, I remember coming across something in a hardware store, it's sheets of metal (aluminium?) that are meant for radiators (to make a case around them so they don't look as ugly) that are already perforated. I don't  know what they're called, but I think they're pretty inexpensive (and you can use them to make multiple lids for your future T's). They kinda look something like this: http://www.derlascon.nl/cms/uploads/images/staalplaat/geperforeerde plaat.jpg


----------



## EightLeggedFreaks (May 15, 2013)

Cydaea said:


> A layer of damp under a layer of dry substrate is okay, but watch out for mold.  As long as the T can keep her feet dry, you're good.
> 
> 
> I think people mean by ' drilling holes' , you make a lid out of acrylic or any other plastic and drill holes through that.
> ...


Those would prove the be just as harmful if the T were to get it's hooks stuck in them as the mesh screens that come with tanks.  But it's just temporary for now so I don't see the harm in it.  If hes just going to make a nice acrylic top in the next couple days I wouldn't worry too much.  My first T had a mesh lid and it thrived in there for months before I did some research and started making nice acrylic cages.


----------



## deviance1911 (May 15, 2013)

kk I'll post some pics when I get off work and furnish her new home


----------



## EulersK (May 15, 2013)

Yeah, as Cydaea said, I meant drill holes in the new lid. I wouldn't stress out about the mesh lid you have now, don't bother altering it. 

Concerning the substrate, I simply poured mine in. Retrospectively, I should have tamped it down (patted it down) to make it more of a solid ground, but my rosie doesn't seem to mind too much. If you want to tamp it, moisten all of the substrate and put in ~3-5 inches at a time, tamp it down, add another ~5 inches, tamp it down, etc. until you have a desired height. Then let it dry out for a few hours - just put it in front of a window so sunlight hits it. This will create a solid ground that won't move much, but will also allow the T to burrow if it decides to. As ELF said, you don't want the tarantula to be standing on any wet substrate. They despise it, and WILL climb to avoid it.


----------



## deviance1911 (May 15, 2013)

Ok hows this? I havent put her hide in yet, cause shes inside of her hide in the other cage lol so ill move her out in a bit. This high enough? Its patted down but not wet pretty firm imo. 

	
	
		
		
	


	





---------- Post added 05-15-2013 at 06:19 PM ----------

Does it look high enough? The substrate?


----------



## Bongo Fury (May 15, 2013)

If the distance between the floor and lid is 1.5 times the leg span or less, then yes it is high enough.


----------



## EightLeggedFreaks (May 15, 2013)

Yes, that should be good.


----------



## deviance1911 (May 15, 2013)

Dammit I dont think the ground is good enough its really soft like i pressed it down but theres still a soft layer do they not like that? Shes on the wall of the cage ;(, this is so frustrating..


----------



## EightLeggedFreaks (May 15, 2013)

deviance1911 said:


> Dammit I dont think the ground is good enough its really soft like i pressed it down but theres still a soft layer do they not like that? Shes on the wall of the cage ;(, this is so frustrating..


Give her time, shes fine.  She has to adjust, leave her alone for a week.  Let her settle in on her own and don't worry too much.


----------



## deviance1911 (May 15, 2013)

Ok she moved down a bit, 1 leg is touching the ground tho lol. Should I still not feed her on saturday? Or continue with the feeding schedule anyway? Also she got a some substrate in her bowl, should I change it or leave it alone too?


----------



## EulersK (May 15, 2013)

It won't hurt her to not eat, I'd skip this week if I were you. Your T looks quite healthy, it could miss a few feedings before becoming visibly skinny.


----------



## Arachnemeow (Aug 19, 2018)

EulersK said:


> Don't worry about replacing substrate unless you have a mite infestation or mold has gotten out of hand. If you see mold, just spot clean. If your T doesn't eat a cricket within a couple days, remove it. Don't really worry about spider poop (the white stuff) - it's not water soluble, so bacteria will not grow on it. It's just ugly, is all.
> 
> I occasionally remove substrate that has been webbed over during her "cricket dance", because I know that was not meant to be a permanent part of her enclosure. Don't remove webbing in or around its hide, as that was likely put there for a reason.
> 
> ...


Now THAT is a cool enclosure!! How do I go about getting one of those??  And nice setup btw too


----------



## EulersK (Aug 19, 2018)

Jesus, such an old thread. My newbie colors were showing strong here, weren't they? @Arachnemeow, don't take advice from my half-decade ago self. He was still learning the intermediates. As for the enclosure, I don't recommend those 100% acrylic enclosures. They severely bow over time (within 18 months) and eventually crack. I'd show you that same enclosure now, but it's certainly in a landfill somewhere.



EulersK said:


> I occasionally remove substrate that has been webbed over during her "cricket dance", because I know that was not meant to be a permanent part of her enclosure.


What? No, don't do that. Leave everything the way it is. Disturbing anything causes undue stress. Completely pointless.



EulersK said:


> Luckily, since you never have to mist or keep wet substrate, mold and mites shouldn't really be an issue.


Mold and mites aren't an issue anyway. Just about all of my enclosures these days have both. You just can't allow either to get out of hand.



EulersK said:


> Post pictures, get advice, read the book...


Do not read that book (i.e. The Tarantula Keeper's Guide). It's outdated and in many cases flat out wrong. Just post pictures and get advice.



EulersK said:


> What you want to avoid is bothering the T more than is needed.


Why? Tarantulas deal with stress just fine when compared to the likes of mammals or reptiles. Rehouse as needed - if something is wrong, don't hesitate to fix it.



EulersK said:


> I'm speaking from experience.


No, I wasn't.



EulersK said:


> A hide it can comfortably fit into (not too large!)


Half truth here. You want a tight hide. No such thing as a claustrophobic spider. If they need to remove dirt to expand the burrow, then they will. Simple as that. Just get a broken mug or pot, bury it halfway, and let the spider do the rest.



EulersK said:


> Personally, I like to make my enclosures look cool, so I add stones and whatnot.


Stones are a falling hazard and should be avoided.



EulersK said:


> In all honesty, it may be a little too tall in some areas, but I don't worry since she never climbs.


Spoken like a true newbie.

Reactions: Like 3 | Funny 3 | Love 1


----------

