# Multicoloured Centipede in Tanzania, East Africa



## sean8957 (Sep 9, 2012)

Hi Guys.

I visit Tanzania, East Africa reguarly and this time around I was bitten on the big toe by this fella! 

It was a pretty painfull bite but didnt cause any major problems. 

I was just wondering if anyone could tell me what kind of centipede this is.... I have tried searching but could not find another example with the sample colour patterns.

Any help would be really appreciated as im very intrueged to find out the name  

Best Wishes 

Sean


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## Entomancer (Sep 9, 2012)

Scolopendra something-or-other.

I'm not terribly knowledgeable about the different species within the genus, but there is a subforum for myriapods where you will probably get an answer pretty quickly.


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## cacoseraph (Sep 9, 2012)

maybe Scolopendra morsitans. there are definitely specimens of that species that look about like that in the area stated

some have a heck of a bite on them, ime


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## Elytra and Antenna (Sep 10, 2012)

I'm going to guess that's around 5cm and is an adult male _Scolopendra mirabilis_


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## sean8957 (Sep 10, 2012)

Cheers for all the reply's everyone 

It was around 4-5inches in length though


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## CHLee (Sep 10, 2012)

i'm going with Scolopendra morsitans,probably a male.


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## krabbelspinne (Sep 13, 2012)

@Elytra and Antenna:
How can you say that it is a mirabilis? How can you say it is male?


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## Elytra and Antenna (Sep 15, 2012)

krabbelspinne said:


> @Elytra and Antenna:
> How can you say that it is a mirabilis? How can you say it is male?


 Why? Are there certain features that you are familiar with that I am not which would make this a female or something other than mirabilis? Compare to here: http://www.nadiplochilo.com/sscolopendrinae.html
 If it's really 5 inches it's probably not either species guessed at this point.


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## Nanotrev (Sep 15, 2012)

Elytra and Antenna said:


> Why? Are there certain features that you are familiar with that I am not which would make this a female or something other than mirabilis? Compare to here: http://www.nadiplochilo.com/sscolopendrinae.html
> If it's really 5 inches it's probably not either species guessed at this point.


I think what he's trying to say is that he might be skeptical on how you are able to ID the gender of the centipede, and why you think it is the species you state it as being. I'm curious myself because there are very few if any characteristics of centipedes that make them being able to be determined as male or female upon observation at a distance.


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## Elytra and Antenna (Sep 15, 2012)

Nanotrev said:


> I think what he's trying to say is that he might be skeptical on how you are able to ID the gender of the centipede, and why you think it is the species you state it as being. I'm curious myself because there are very few if any characteristics of centipedes that make them being able to be determined as male or female upon observation at a distance.


 Did you take a look at the link image?


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## Nanotrev (Sep 15, 2012)

Elytra and Antenna said:


> Did you take a look at the link image?


Yes, though it doesn't provide any support as to how you can tell which is male and female. There are also centipedes that share the coloration. I'm not saying "You're completely wrong." I'm making an attempt to clarify krabbelspinne's question, though he's probably best at that. However, I'm also interested how you can make both statements based on the photo provided.


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## Elytra and Antenna (Sep 15, 2012)

Did I not say it was a guess? However, when Tanzanian imports of centipedes were common here the only species with this color was S. mirabalis and the males of that species are really easy to tell from the females. The photo you looked at is a male and female.


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## cacoseraph (Sep 16, 2012)

where did you read that mirabilis is sexually dimorphic like that?  i have read in multiple reliable places that morsitans is and you know, keyed them out rather than going off color... but if you want to go off a common color in a blurry pic, well, that's something


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## krabbelspinne (Sep 16, 2012)

@ E and A:

The species on the photo in the website www.nadiplochilo.com is NOT Scolopendra mirabilis. It is a misidentification. Until now, I believe, that the species shown on the photo is a new species. Beside some remarkable species like Sc. hardwickei, it is NOT possible to identify centipedes by colouration.

The second point is, that there are only a few Scolopendra species showing sexual dimorphism. One of them is Scolopendra morsitans, but Scolopendra mirabilis doesn`t. 

So you are wrong with your guess about the species and you are totally wrong by saying it is male or female in this case.


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## Elytra and Antenna (Sep 16, 2012)

cacoseraph said:


> where did you read that mirabilis is sexually dimorphic like that?  i have read in multiple reliable places that morsitans is and you know, keyed them out rather than going off color... but if you want to go off a common color in a blurry pic, well, that's something


 So you keyed out this one by going off a blurry pic? What feature in the blurry pic did you use for you S. morsitans ID. It's amazing that you expect evidence from others you would never consider expecting from yourself.

---------- Post added 09-16-2012 at 10:54 AM ----------




krabbelspinne said:


> @ E and A:
> 
> The species on the photo in the website www.nadiplochilo.com is NOT Scolopendra mirabilis. It is a misidentification. Until now, I believe, that the species shown on the photo is a new species.
> The second point is, that there are only a few Scolopendra species showing sexual dimorphism.


 How do you know those are not S. mirabilis? There are specific tarsal features of those specimens you wouldn't be able to see in a photograph. With nothing to back up your claim and no opportunity to check the features what are you claiming to think the species is now? What feature do you think I'm going off for the gender?

---------- Post added 09-16-2012 at 11:00 AM ----------




cacoseraph said:


> maybe Scolopendra morsitans. there are definitely specimens of that species that look about like that in the area stated
> 
> some have a heck of a bite on them, ime


 Would you happen to have some evidence for your species identification by color?


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## Elytra and Antenna (Sep 16, 2012)

I pulled 3 of 3 photos that just happen to be in my attachments. So if I told you these were from Arizona, Florida, and China you honestly couldn't identify these species by color?





krabbelspinne said:


> @ E and A:
> Beside some remarkable species like Sc. hardwickei, it is NOT possible to identify centipedes by colouration.


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## Elytra and Antenna (Sep 16, 2012)

I won't make you lie, most people on here would know heros, longipes, and subspinipes. Also, the S. subspinipes at the bottom are 3 females and 1 male. Adult males often don't really look like females.


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## cacoseraph (Sep 16, 2012)

i can't really help you with english comprehension, but the fact i am talking in a plural is generally indicative of speaking of things in general and not a specific instance or this specific instance.  what the contents of my post mean, put another way, is i would key out a species before trying to sex it

did you want to provide citations for anything or just huff and puff like normal?

Lewis Biology of Centipedes states that morsitans are sexually dimorphic based on, in part, characteristics of the terminal leg which, if the centipede in the OP *is* a morsitans are just barely present in the picture.  the terminal legs of a male will have these structural differences. name escapes me at the moment but i'm sure anyone can search the site for my posts to figure it out


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## Elytra and Antenna (Sep 16, 2012)

cacoseraph said:


> i can't really help you with english comprehension, but the fact i am talking in a plural is generally indicative of speaking of things in general and not a specific instance or this specific instance.  what the contents of my post mean, put another way, is i would key out a species before trying to sex it


But you didn't try to key it out. You based it on color but you don't have evidence S. morsitans are ever that color. Your reference has nothing to do with the topic at hand since you can't make out features on the rear legs in the OP photo. I did not say S. mirabilis rear legs were any different on male and female. They aren't any different on the rear legs of the specimens in the link. You don't see any difference in the body shape?



cacoseraph said:


> maybe Scolopendra morsitans. there are definitely specimens of that species that look about like that in the area stated
> 
> some have a heck of a bite on them, ime


 Would you happen to have some evidence for your species identification by color? Are you now pretending you based it on the rear legs since you can't find a reference? You should take a look at the photos on your own webpage.


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## Nanotrev (Sep 16, 2012)

> Would you happen to have some evidence for your species identification by color?


It's a bit confusing to see things go back and forth. Either way, I pointed out was that most species of centipede can not be sexed based off external observation, and the claim you've made several times thus far in being able to ID a centipede's gender merely by seeing a picture of it seems far-fetched. Now, if you were to provide several instances of which characteristics you look for in telling one apart from the other you might get more positive feedback and end up providing people with a method of sexing adult specimens. However, many of the more experienced keepers here rely on exposing the sex organs of centipedes to determine the gender despite having huge exposure to working with both sexes- I find it difficult to think that it can be so easily done based on external observation.

However, regarding the color, I will say this. Is it more likely that you'd be able to ID a centipede from one region given a photo, knowing that there is only one species in that range which has that coloration? Yes.

Yet, the second question would be a bit harder. If there were two species with overlapping range that shared similar body characteristics and coloration, would you be able to tell them apart using a blurry photograph? Most likely not, but at least you could narrow it down to those two. It's not really the argument I'm wanting to make at the moment but it really sorts things out pertaining to the whole debate about if you're able to ID a pede based off what color it happens to be.

Based on what people here have provided me with, that there are two very similar looking centipedes in the same region I would say you can indeed narrow it down to those two. However, can you tell if the specimen in the picture is male or female? Highly doubtful, at least in my opinion.


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## Elytra and Antenna (Sep 16, 2012)

Nanotrev said:


> However, can you tell if the specimen in the picture is male or female? Highly doubtful, at least in my opinion.


 I said it looked like a male because it's so skinny. If you've kept centipedes for long you'll know females never look that way unless they're really sick. Caco made a wild unsupported guess and I thought I was allowed too but at least I had a pic on Caco's own site and the other site to back up my guesstimate.

---------- Post added 09-16-2012 at 08:21 PM ----------




Nanotrev said:


> Based on what people here have provided me with, that there are two very similar looking centipedes in the same region I would say you can indeed narrow it down to those two.


 Take a look at Caco's website and find me the morsitans that looks like this as an adult? The only thing remotely close that's not the species I said is a baby "Egyptian" emerald which I'm guessing isn't from Tanzania and has a stripe down its back. Going strictly by Caco's own site he'd be wrong.


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## Nanotrev (Sep 16, 2012)

Elytra and Antenna said:


> I said it looked like a male because it's so skinny. If you've kept centipedes for long you'll know females never look that way unless they're really sick. Caco made a wild unsupported guess and I thought I was allowed too but at least I had a pic on Caco's own site and the other site to back up my guesstimate.


Then, based on that guesstimate I'll attempt to sex my own on that criteria later on and let you know how things go. Despite this, a male and female I have that are a proven pair (Scolopendra heros c. ) look almost identical. The only way to tell them apart is by the coloration of the male, which is slightly off for the species (that being a deep olive color- in no regards to the previous conversation) which makes me skeptical. Does anyone have any other input for this?



Elytra and Antenna said:


> Take a look at Caco's website and find me the morsitans that looks like this as an adult? The only thing remotely close that's not the species I said is a baby "Egyptian" emerald which I'm guessing isn't from Tanzania and has a stripe down its back. Going strictly by Caco's own site he'd be wrong.


Not going strictly by Cacoseraph's website, I'd say I've seen photographs of what people say is Scolopendra mortisans which appear to be quite large, though I will admit they could be flawed. Why is it that you say "going strictly off Caco's website" instead of the overall conversation? I'm not trying to pin blame or the lack of knowledge on anyone. I'd say the point of my continued discussion is getting down to how one could reliably say which centipede is which and if you can sex them or not based on external appearance. I'd say it's redundant trying to argue which species the one in the blurry picture is. How we got to this point is silly, and until someone else adds their two cents I'm going to hop out being that we've both stated our general opinions. Without someone else adding in what they think things are going to continue on in a circle.


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## Elytra and Antenna (Sep 16, 2012)

Nanotrev said:


> Why is it that you say "going strictly off Caco's website" instead of the overall conversation?


Specific photo references. You're saying you believe S. morsitans comes in that color because Caco said it but his website photos are contrary to his statement but you're now claiming it's your opinion that S. morsitans come in that color but there's not even one photo and you've never seen either. If you're confused by Caco's use of Trachycormocephalus and Scolopendra for the same animal, Trachycormocephalus is a junior synonym of Scolopendra.


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## SDCPs (Sep 16, 2012)

Elytra and Antenna said:


> Caco made a wild unsupported guess and I thought I was allowed too but at least I had a pic on Caco's own site and the other site to back up my guesstimate.


I've looked at this thread and the arguments made. I know nothing about centipedes and cannot get involved. However...

I'd just like to clarify what I got out of it for the future based on what I've seen here and how I've been confused before.

1) Make SURE everyone knows you're guessing, and present any supporting evidence when you do--not after the fact:



Elytra and Antenna said:


> I'm going to guess that's around 5cm and is an adult male _Scolopendra mirabilis_


E and A DID state that he was guessing. However, his highly precise (not necessarily accurate...since the thread starter replied it was actually 4-5 inches which could be an exaggeration but is far larger than 5 cm.) guess probably caused people to believe he was authoritatively blurry-photo-id'ing. In the future, he should probably add extra clarifiers such as 





Elytra and Antenna said:


> I said it looked like a male because it's so skinny. If you've kept centipedes for long you'll know females never look that way unless they're really sick...Take a look at Caco's website and find me the morsitans that looks like this as an adult? The only thing remotely close that's not the species I said is a baby "Egyptian" emerald which I'm guessing isn't from Tanzania and has a stripe down its back.


 IMHO, adding reasons why he thought it was a "5cm...adult male _Scolopendra mirabilis_" would have avoided confusion and made for a more pleasant discussion. I, for one, appreciate A and E's posts but heartily wish he and others would spend some more time explaining when possible...aside from peoples' reputations as a knowledgeable enthusiasts--not everyone has gotten the chance to know us so for newcomers to the conversation there's reason to believe otherwise--we could as well be the uninformed, arrogant voice of some random arm-chair taxonomists for all newcomers know. Don't take these comment personally, I'm just trying to make my point (please add supporting thoughts/evidence to guesses) clear. More detail, although taking longer to add, can really help others understand and could save future trouble...say Krabbel added the information contained in his third post to his first or second post. No argument.

2)Since one does not know what a screename on a post represents, it would be advisable to refrain from condemning their posts until one has more information from them. Their qualifications may come later:


krabbelspinne said:


> E and A:
> 
> It is easy to answer: Because I have both species at home and I am actually describing the species on the photo as a new one after carefully made examinations....


3) Unless the discussion is polite and courteous (without personal attacks and finger-pointing), knowledgeable individuals may drop out of the conversation leaving the rest to form what could be a less well-informed conclusion.



cacoseraph said:


> did you want to provide citations for anything or just huff and puff like normal?



4) The stature of those who are arguing back-and-forth without laying down their "evidence" right away (or at all) is diminished in the public eye. You look rude and even ignorant when it probably couldn't be farther from the truth.


_I don't intend that post as a personal attack on anyone. I'm thinking out loud about what I've seen in this thread and in others.

the last line, "You look rude and even ignorant when it probably couldn't be farther from the truth." is directed at whoever reads the post an nobody in particular...but is meant to be, shall we say, convicting for each reader.

And lastly, the goal of my post is to advance the hobby, and influence discussions therein for the better. Let's have a great, polite, pleasant time talking about what we love. I'm glad I've seen some people around here have learned to argue in a gentle way, and I want to follow their example!_

Reactions: Like 1


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## Nanotrev (Sep 16, 2012)

Elytra and Antenna said:


> Specific photo references. You're saying you believe S. morsitans comes in that color because Caco said it but his website photos are contrary to his statement but you're now claiming it's your opinion that S. morsitans come in that color but there's not even one photo and you've never seen either. If you're confused by Caco's use of Trachycormocephalus and Scolopendra for the same animal, Trachycormocephalus is a junior synonym of Scolopendra.


Quite a few things seem to be predicted here, apologies if I do not continue to contribute.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/hbuys/3886599751/
http://www.hippocampus-bildarchiv.com/tier_12120_ScolopendramorsitansYellow.htm


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## SDCPs (Sep 16, 2012)

And forgive me if I've stepped beyond my bounds...but I'm still learning and will keep experimenting as long as I believe they're not more than mildly inappropriate or offensive.


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## Nanotrev (Sep 16, 2012)

SDCPs said:


> And forgive me if I've stepped beyond my bounds...but I'm still learning and will keep experimenting as long as I believe they're not more than mildly inappropriate or offensive.


I don't believe you've stepped beyond your limits at all.


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## SDCPs (Sep 16, 2012)

Nanotrev said:


> I don't believe you've stepped beyond your limits at all.


Thank you. I need the input of others and I'm glad you mentioned it. The internet and these forums can be like a stone wall as times since responses are delayed, there's no way to perceive body language and it's hard to judge tone. I find it difficult to know how to interpret what I see here and then word my responses so others will understand my intentions accurately.


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## Elytra and Antenna (Sep 16, 2012)

Nanotrev said:


> Quite a few things seem to be predicted here, apologies if I do not continue to contribute.
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/hbuys/3886599751/
> http://www.hippocampus-bildarchiv.com/tier_12120_ScolopendramorsitansYellow.htm


 The first one would be a wonderful example except that the colors are enhanced/faked (read through the comments and look at the green leaves). The second one I'm missing the reference.


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## krabbelspinne (Sep 17, 2012)

E and A:

It is easy to answer: Because I have both species at home and I am actually describing the species on the photo as a new one after carefully made examinations....


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## cacoseraph (Sep 17, 2012)

tanzi tiger that keyed out to morsitans.  not all of them are that stark of white and black with a red head. some have a bit more yellow to them... rather like this one


darker range in color for something that keys out to morsitans







hey, remember when you published the centipede book and i said your ID skills were subpar but you managed to get the care right?  how'd that turn out for ya?  oh yeah, you had an "ID'ed" morsitans that was not even in the right subfamily.  that sure was funny





edit:
not to mention coloration sucks in general for ID'ing stuff and specifically for centipedes that can go through moderately pronounced shifts during their molt cycles


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## SDCPs (Sep 17, 2012)

cacoseraph said:


> hey, remember when you published the centipede book and i said your ID skills were subpar but you managed to get the care right?  how'd that turn out for ya?  oh yeah, you had an "ID'ed" morsitans that was not even in the right subfamily.  that sure was funny


Hey, at least E & A *wrote and published* a centipede book. Even with a few errors (most carnivorous plant books have errors since new species are always being added, subspecies elevated...etc.) many hobbyists are very grateful they have something to guide them--especially with the care. For the casual hobbyist it can be said that great care information is much more important than taxonomic excellence. 

I'm thinking of writing (I actually already started a year ago) a Drosophyllum Lusitanicum book since many growers struggle to germinate it and keep it alive. I don't have any taxonomy (or whatever you call it for plants) to do since there is only one species, but I will not delve into naming the different parts of the plants. What matters is how to get the darn things to grow! They are a very sensitive species.

But you just had to get the last word in...stir the pot after it settled :sarcasm:


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## Elytra and Antenna (Sep 18, 2012)

cacoseraph said:


> tanzi tiger that keyed out to morsitans.  not all of them are that stark of white and black with a red head. some have a bit more yellow to them... rather like this one darker range in color for something that keys out to morsitans
> 
> edit:
> not to mention coloration sucks in general for ID'ing stuff and specifically for centipedes that can go through moderately pronounced shifts during their molt cycles


 Where's your blue one? You always switch subjects when you can't back up what you say (you can start a new thread for a new subject). Of course color isn't a great indicator but on your "ID" you said you were going by color but you didn't even check the color with your own photos.


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## zonbonzovi (Sep 18, 2012)

*Mod's note*

Sorry, I'm fashionably late.

Christ on a cracker!  All of this petty squabbling for a blurry photo?!  You two(and you know who you are) are grown men and should try behaving as such.  This is unacceptable.  The next time you decide to air your grievances via this subforum the penalties shall be swift and merciless.  Use the friggin' PM function!  Grrrr.  Oh yeah...I don't wish to hear from anyone regarding this thread via PM.  I do not care what your justification is.   

While I'm leaving the thread open, *it is only for the purpose of first hand information.  Unless you have these specimens in your possession, remain silent. * 

Thanks for playing!


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