# New P. Metallica



## Zach T (Apr 22, 2016)

Hello all!

   Well I've been arachnophobic all my life, but some reason fell in love in a few different T species.  I know most will say not a good idea, but my first T is a p. metallica, a 1" sling possibly a little bigger.  I got it Monday.  I put it in it's enclosure/vial (it's a glass spice vial from the dollar store with perfect little vents on top not big enough for the sling to get out).  The substrate is orchid bark.  
   I gave it a few days to settle in and then fed it yesterday.  It seemed like it was playing with the cricket for a while but then I saw it grab it and had it under its fangs.  Question, if the T has it there for at least five minutes, is it safe to assume that he will finish the meal?  Or do they ever decide not to?  Also, what does a bolus look like?  I have a feeling that I won't be able to tell what a bolus is.  Today with tongs I took out another old cricket that died in their and it kinda smeared the glass...do I have to clean that now or can I wait a while until I clean the vial (hopefully a while from now?).  I just am being very safe about everything.  (I wear thick vinyl gloves any time I open the vial to feed cricket or remove one.  I am planning on feeding it one cricket it's body size twice a week.  I mist a little bit every few days.  I want the humidity high but I don't want the substrate wet.  
    I know I'm taking a lot on with such a species and being a sling but I had to take the plunge because of the price.  I don't even care if it's male...they are just so marvelous.  
    Thanks for reading.

Z

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## EulersK (Apr 22, 2016)

You admit that most people will say it wasn't a good idea. It amazes me how often we see new users say the exact same thing, as if the warnings against advanced species are because we want them all for ourselves. No, it's because some of these spiders can kill household pets and even children.



Zach T said:


> I just am being very safe about everything.  (I wear thick vinyl gloves any time I open the vial to feed cricket or remove one)


No. No you are not. If you were being safe, you wouldn't have gotten a spider that is lightyears outside of your husbandry ability. You think a vinyl glove will stop a fang? These fangs can crush hard exoskeletons of their prey. Your vinyl glove won't even be noticed.

I encourage you to read the bite reports for this species:
http://arachnoboards.com/threads/poecilotheria-metallica.78009/
They are "marvelous" because they are letting the entire animal kingdom know what their venom can do. The colors aren't for show. I won't even get into how unbelievably fast this spider is - hobbyists literally use the word 'teleportation' to describe it.

Don't expect much help regarding husbandry in this thread. You have failed to do the absolute basic research needed to get into this hobby, and as a result, you now have a living creature in your possession that will almost certainly die due to your inability to keep it properly. All the YouTube videos and articles in the world will not replace pure experience. Had you done research, you could have found absolutely stunning beginner level tarantulas that would have achieved the same goal of overcoming arachnophobia.

Other users will attest to the fact that I go far, far out of my way to help anyone that I can on these forums. However, this is not something that I'll be a part of. You have treated that living animal like a toy, and you have treated this hobby like a novelty. If you are willing to admit a mistake, I will personally help you package up that spider to sell it or return it. I'll even ensure that you get a fair price for it. I will also personally help you choose a much better starting species that you will enjoy. I do hope that you take me up on that offer.

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## Toxoderidae (Apr 22, 2016)

Honestly I don't even want to tell you how much wrong is in your post, how much terrible is in what you "plan" to "care" for this spider is. I'm honestly just gonna hop with Eulers, and watch you kill this spider with how idiotic you are.

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## mistertim (Apr 22, 2016)

Yeah, not even gonna get into this very much. I am still pretty new to the hobby, but I've been in it for coming up on a year and I know I am not ready for a Pokie yet. As a first time tarantula owner you are making a grave error in judgement that could affect not only you but any other people and/or pets you may have living with you. I implore you, for the sake of the tarantula, yourself, others you may live with, and the hobby itself, to take Eulers up on his (very generous) offer and get a species that is more suited to your experience level. There are many many great beginner tarantulas out there. Pokies are amazing animals but they are WAY beyond what you're ready for right now. One mistake is all it takes.

Please rethink this.

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## 916 (Apr 22, 2016)

Zach whats done is done. not the best choice for first T. you posted here so you should be able to search the web for a care sheet on P metalica. your post kind of sounds like a bad joke. i have raised 2 female P metalica slings from 1" to over 6 ". my 2 girls are some of the sweetest  Ts i have raised. your starting out wrong but there is plenty of good information on this speices out there. read,, then read some more then read some more. first thing though change her substrate to a more appropriate one like plain old dirt with no pesticides or any other chems in there. she is arboreal so hight is more important then floor space. you did it now keep that bug alive. good luck

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## viper69 (Apr 22, 2016)

Zach T said:


> I won't be able to tell what a bolus is


It's clear you understood the significance of this genus to some level as you realized you may get crap for choosing this genus as your first T as mentioned in your post.

I'd like to say you made this choice out of ignorance, but you didn't. Unfortunately for the T, you made this choice due to a different human quality having to do with intelligence, " I want it, I want it", among other qualities in that category.

Look up the definition of bolus, it's self-explanatory, assuming you have a reasonable grasp on geometry.

Don't read care sheets, CARE SHEETS ARE CRAP.

Read on this forum, and other T specific forums and ask your questions. Rely on care sheets and your T will likely die.

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## Zach T (Apr 22, 2016)

Wow,
Did I make a mistake registering on this board?  I believe so.
First of all, what in my post screams that I know nothing about caring for this animal?  You tell me to read care sheets...I can assure you all that I've read  tons of info on p. metallica and/or arboreals for months before acquiring this animal.  Of course I have a branch in the vial, actually I have two...I understand it is an arboreal species.
I asked a simple question about what a bolus looked like...no one wanted to help me, most would rather tell me what a bad person I am for acquiring p. metallica and insulting me by saying that I haven't done my research.  I thought you would all be welcoming and answer some of my questions.
Hopefully I'll get a nice reply sometime soon.
And how does my post sound like a bad joke?  I've not stated any absolute husbandy no-nos I don't believe and if I did, I would hope you would enlighten me in a normal tone instead of going after me.

Z

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## viper69 (Apr 22, 2016)

Zach T said:


> Wow,
> Did I make a mistake registering on this board?  I believe so.
> First of all, what in my post screams that I know nothing about caring for this animal?  You tell me to read care sheets...I can assure you all that I've read  tons of info on p. metallica and/or arboreals for months before acquiring this animal.  Of course I have a branch in the vial, actually I have two...I understand it is an arboreal species.
> I asked a simple question about what a bolus looked like...no one wanted to help me, most would rather tell me what a bad person I am for acquiring p. metallica and insulting me by saying that I haven't done my research.  I thought you would all be welcoming and answer some of my questions.
> ...


Registering no, buying a Pokie, well that wasn't exactly kosher......

Who told you to read care sheets?? I don't know one experienced, knowledgeable keeper suggesting reading care sheets. They are FULL of inaccurate info, particularly impressing upon new people the importance of humidity across many T species, among other erroneous info.

Have you looked up the def. of bolus yet? I did many years ago, and that's how I knew what to expect. This is not rocket science. You need to be observant when owning Ts, not saying you aren't mind you.

If given all the research you learned, how did the price of this T surface as the final factor that made you buy it? You do realize if you waited and bought something more manageable that by the time you learned more by actually owning a T, they would have dropped in price?

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## mistertim (Apr 22, 2016)

Zach T said:


> Wow,
> Did I make a mistake registering on this board?  I believe so.
> First of all, what in my post screams that I know nothing about caring for this animal?  You tell me to read care sheets...I can assure you all that I've read  tons of info on p. metallica and/or arboreals for months before acquiring this animal.  Of course I have a branch in the vial, actually I have two...I understand it is an arboreal species.
> I asked a simple question about what a bolus looked like...no one wanted to help me, most would rather tell me what a bad person I am for acquiring p. metallica and insulting me by saying that I haven't done my research.  I thought you would all be welcoming and answer some of my questions.
> ...


I think for the most part people have been pretty measured in their responses. You obviously knew that you would catch flak for buying a very advanced spider as your first one. This also isn't just about you, its about the hobby itself. Pokie bites are no joke, and there are those out there who are against people being able to keep certain tarantulas and will look for any reason to try to introduce rules to ban them. All it takes is a few ill advised Pokie purchases and a couple of bites with emergency room visits to become publicized and its more ammo.

As far as being ready for this genus by doing months of reading...that's great and all but it absolutely will not prepare you for the speed and venom toxicity of Pokies. Knowledge is great, but when you're talking about advanced Old World tarantulas, experience is an absolute must. Have you read the bite reports? What do you think your reaction will be if your spider bolts out of its enclosure and ends up running up the tongs onto your arm? You'll hardly even be able to see it move, and you absolutely won't be prepared for it, leading to a likely injury to your spider (natural human response is to flail or fling it off) or injury to you because you spooked it more or tried to grab it quickly and it bit you.

People aren't necessarily trying to get down on you, but you need to fully understand the potential ramifications of such a purchase and of keeping one of the most advanced tarantulas out there with zero prior experience.

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## viper69 (Apr 22, 2016)

mistertim said:


> All it takes is a few ill advised Pokie purchases and a couple of bites with emergency room visits to become publicized and its more ammo


I couldn't agree more.

As for their speed, my friend breeds these, and he has had an adult run up his arm, across his shoulders and down his other arm before he could blink.

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## Flexzone (Apr 22, 2016)

Zach T said:


> Wow,
> Did I make a mistake registering on this board?  I believe so.
> First of all, what in my post screams that I know nothing about caring for this animal?  You tell me to read care sheets...I can assure you all that I've read  tons of info on p. metallica and/or arboreals for months before acquiring this animal.  Of course I have a branch in the vial, actually I have two...I understand it is an arboreal species.
> I asked a simple question about what a bolus looked like...no one wanted to help me, most would rather tell me what a bad person I am for acquiring p. metallica and insulting me by saying that I haven't done my research.  I thought you would all be welcoming and answer some of my questions.
> ...


Zach, I think I could speak for everyone that we are glad that you found interest with the hobby like the rest of us. However you even acknowledged that a P. met wasn't the best choice of a starter T, Kind of like a first time dog owner getting an advanced level breed (pitbull's,rottie's,doberman's etc). And all to often T's succumb because of that. On that note one of the basic terms you'll hear is (bolus) basically the indigestible matter of prey that's commonly in a circular ball that T's discard at the end of feeding. And seeing as its a sling I wouldn't keep the sub dry but keep it moist and add a plastic water bottle cap as a drinking source.

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## Chris LXXIX (Apr 22, 2016)

Keep an eye to the *humidity *part, because slings are delicate "per se" respect to juvie/adults, go figure an Asian one.

Extreme caution, man... they are* fast*! Very *fast*. With a powerful venom. I'm not exagerating things.

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## Pociemon (Apr 22, 2016)

mistertim said:


> I think for the most part people have been pretty measured in their responses. You obviously knew that you would catch flak for buying a very advanced spider as your first one. This also isn't just about you, its about the hobby itself. Pokie bites are no joke, and there are those out there who are against people being able to keep certain tarantulas and will look for any reason to try to introduce rules to ban them. All it takes is a few ill advised Pokie purchases and a couple of bites with emergency room visits to become publicized and its more ammo.
> 
> As far as being ready for this genus by doing months of reading...that's great and all but it absolutely will not prepare you for the speed and venom toxicity of Pokies. Knowledge is great, but when you're talking about advanced Old World tarantulas, experience is an absolute must. Have you read the bite reports? What do you think your reaction will be if your spider bolts out of its enclosure and ends up running up the tongs onto your arm? You'll hardly even be able to see it move, and you absolutely won't be prepared for it, leading to a likely injury to your spider (natural human response is to flail or fling it off) or injury to you because you spooked it more or tried to grab it quickly and it bit you.
> 
> People aren't necessarily trying to get down on you, but you need to fully understand the potential ramifications of such a purchase and of keeping one of the most advanced tarantulas out there with zero prior experience.


Well, it cant be said better than this, and with a good tone;-)

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## Chris LXXIX (Apr 22, 2016)

Zach T said:


> I have a feeling that I won't be able to tell what a bolus is.


Go figure... it's easy to spot those when during routine maintenance (save for those OB i have that use some burrow 'corner' as a trash can  ) you will notice those, don't worry.

You have to be very careful, that's what important.

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## Trenor (Apr 22, 2016)

viper69 said:


> Registering no, buying a Pokie, well that wasn't exactly kosher......


I'm sorry, but this is getting to be a bit much. I did not know that there was a tarantula God Father whom you needed to kiss the ring and get approval to buy a Pokie. Who is it that gets to say what the OP or me or anyone else can buy? Come on man.



Zach T said:


> I know most will say not a good idea, but my first T is a p. metallica


This shows the OP has looked at some of the boards. The fact that they still posted might show that they wanted to get more information even if the knew how it was going to go. *I agree that a Pokie for your 1st tarantula is not the best move*, but if they come for help give them some. It'll only help the OP and the tarantula.

Here are some photos of an enclosure that I set up for a rehousing. I use coco fiber for the substrait, corkbark to hide climb on, some rubber plants for webbing, red water cup glued to the wall near the top that can be filled without opening the lid, put holes in the side for cross ventilation. It's a 1.5 quart ziplock soup container. I leave the substrate lightly moist. As others have said Pokies are fast and their bites are no joke. Take care! Know where the tarantula is before you open the lid, have a catch cup and don't rush things. If it is acting jumpy abort and try again later. Ask if there is something you don't know. Read up on some more threads about Pokies. Good luck.

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## Ellenantula (Apr 22, 2016)

Good luck.  They're gorgeous Ts.  Not my choice for a starter but since you already have one....   I think you will notice any bolus -- it won't look like webbing or substrate (not being insulting, you'll just see something 'different'). Poo usually looks like off-white smear (to contrast from a bolus).  And usually if mine grab prey-- they eat it.  If not, just remove the carcass.  I hope this works out for you.   Read the forum -- search old threads -- knowledge will help.

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## viper69 (Apr 22, 2016)

Trenor said:


> I did not know that there was a tarantula God Father whom you needed to kiss the ring and get approval to buy a Pokie. Who is it that gets to say what the OP or me or anyone else can buy? Come on man.


I didn't know there was one either! 

There is not rule nor law of any sort (except in Italy I believe @Chris LXXIX ) preventing anyone from buying any type of T available on the market generally speaking, what's your point as that wasn't mine or anyone else who posted in this thread?

The point isn't whether one CAN do that, it's a question of whether one SHOULD.

Generally speaking most things in life that have a series of increasing difficulty levels typically require an increase in skill or experience; a "ladder" if you will from easy to more challenging. Most agree that Pokies are an advanced genus for advanced keepers. Are there exceptions ABSOLUTELY, however that cannot be determined until after the fact, as in the OPs case. The OP might go on to be the largest Poki breeder in the world!!!

When I read that a self-proclaimed *arachnophobe* ("all of my life" as the person wrote it) buys a Poki as their first T, that's a bad decision. Does it mean the OP will fail, get bitten etc, NOPE, but it wasn't the wisest of choices the OP could have made.

Let's face it owning a Poki isn't the same as owning an E sp Red. If you think it is, that would be rather humorous at the least.

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## viper69 (Apr 22, 2016)

Zach T said:


> Question, if the T has it there for at least five minutes, is it safe to assume that he will finish the meal?


I don't know where 5 mins came from, however in a short span of time like above generally speaking yes. However, Ts are shy animals, if you spook them a bit they may drop their food. Sometimes they will come back for it, other times will leave it for you to clean up. I suggest you clean it up as well.


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## Ellenantula (Apr 22, 2016)

viper69 said:


> When I read that a self-proclaimed *arachnophobe* ("all of my life" as the person wrote it) buys a Poki as their first T, that's a bad decision. Does it mean the OP will fail, get bitten etc, NOPE, but it wasn't the wisest of choices the OP could have made.


Yeah, I started with a rosie and an OBT -- basically, one psychopath T and one sociopath T.  It turned out okay but I would make different choices today for a starter T now, since I know more.  I STILL don't own a pokie -- I know too much now.  lol  I admit, I did overcome my arachnophobia though....  I hope all works out for OP.


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## mistertim (Apr 22, 2016)

IIRC P. metallica is also a pretty photosensitive/photophobic species so even you watching it with a light on it could be enough to spook it into dropping its prey or just losing interest.

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## Chris LXXIX (Apr 22, 2016)

viper69 said:


> There is not rule nor law of any sort (except in Italy I believe @Chris LXXIX ) preventing anyone from buying any type of T available on the market generally speaking


Yes, here you can buy/trade Arachnids only in authorized, by the law, fairs, more or less, in little, like the ones you have in USA that i read sometimes about here and then.

You can buy everything except the potentially lethal Arachnids, including those that, maybe, aren't technically lethal but since we know too little about their venom potency (like _Macrothele gigas_, for instance) those aren't available, basically for remain "safe than sorry" i think.

You can buy genus _Poecilotheria_ as well, unlike in some Germany Lander, where they banned those, if i'm not wrong, or there's serious discussions about.

So basically we have a (time limited, and sucks) access to all the _Theraphosidae _but it's very, very rare to hear something like that, because the hobby here was, and is, a little one, so those with a bit of experience are 90%.

There's beginners with 'Chaco' and such, of course, i've rescued one from one of those (he was tired, he said, ah ah).

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## viper69 (Apr 22, 2016)

Ellenantula said:


> basically, one psychopath T and one sociopath T


That's hilarious!!! I've owned an OBT as well. Gorgeous colors, not my cup of tea. Don't mind Pokis as much for some reason. Maybe that's because I owned an H. mac before that. I'm not sure.

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## Chris LXXIX (Apr 22, 2016)

However what is beyond me to understand is: a _G.rosea_, with a stupid 2003 law (the infamous Arachnid Ban) was considered (quote!) "...lethal, potentially lethal, or able to, due to the venom effects, invalidate someone for life"

muahahahahah but, at the same time, you can own (including a total beginner, if he/she wants) a _S.subspinipes_ and that's perfectly fine, no issues about the venom potency (and temperament) of that OW Scolopendra.

That's like 'The Twilight Zone'.

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## Ellenantula (Apr 22, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> However what is beyond me to understand is: a _G.rosea_, with a stupid 2003 law (the infamous Arachnid Ban) was considered (quote!) "...lethal, potentially lethal, or able to, due to the venom effects, invalidate someone for life"
> 
> muahahahahah but, at the same time, you can own (including a total beginner, if he/she wants) a _S.subspinipes_ and that's perfectly fine, no issues about the venom potency (and temperament) of that OW Scolopendra.
> 
> That's like 'The Twilight Zone'.


A lethal rock.  lol  Mine has been, to be fair, very calm.  But that's why they're psycho -- their attitude can change quickly.  But lethal?  lol


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## Chris LXXIX (Apr 22, 2016)

Ellenantula said:


> A lethal rock.  lol  Mine has been, to be fair, very calm.  But that's why they're psycho -- their attitude can change quickly.  But lethal?  lol


You know, lethal like the intelligence of politicians for sane people brain cells 

That's why i vouche and support other people here (i'm not talking about this thread, now) when they talk about the hobby, in general, and the risks of hypothetical Arachnid Ban/s. Because i know well that those can happens, and, that no one, and i say no one would like Politicians 'axe' of judgement.

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## Ellenantula (Apr 22, 2016)

The world is filled with 'dangers' and the gov't needs to learn they cannot protect people from everything.

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## viper69 (Apr 22, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> that no one, and i say no one would like Politicians 'axe' of judgement.


I agree. Many people who aren't familiar or who are too young, don't remember the good old days when in the USA you could own anything just about when it comes to snakes. Then after enough publicity from the news and some dumb politicians decided that's it, "we are done with pythons and other large constrictors". Next thing you know all sorts of states and towns hopped on the bandwagon of banning such dangerous constrictors that would eat your baby! I had someone tell me my 2 ft python would eat a child.

New people (not all of them) who buy "hot" Ts don't consider/care/think this sort of thing can happen to our hobby. It's already happening in some parts of the USA, and this isn't even due to a Poki bite mass hysteria media attention.

Now, I think it's funny how in the herp world, where my exotic knowledge started, not one responsible person says to a PROSPECTIVE new, ie zero experience, snake owner the following, :

1. Buy a cobra
2. Buy a coral snake
3. Buy a rattlesnake
4. Buy a 18 ft reticulated python

What do you usually hear, buy a: king snake, corn snake etc

Or even in the non-venomous area for lizards

Most responsible dealers won't suggest you buy a Uroplatus or a Panther chameleon, they will suggest buy a : leopard gecko, a bearded dragon etc.

BUT, for some odd reason, all this *COMMON* logic from hobbies that are more mature than the T hobby here in the USA, fall on DEAF ears when it comes to buying Ts.

Like I read on a sign once. "Common Sense Ain't Common"


The other thing that baffles COMMON logic are the number of people who tell us they have "done a lot of research", and end up asking the most basic of T husbandry questions for their Pokie or other OW/NW. Things that would have surely been uncovered in their "research". Not referencing the OP, just a general comment.

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## Zach T (Apr 22, 2016)

Well after my response it seems the tone of the thread has been less hostile/accusatory.  I appreciate some of the later comments especially from Trenor and viper.  
Yes I'm a novice, and of course I knew what the definition of a bolus was;  I was looking for someone to describe what it looked like so I could be on the lookout.  People instead wanted to somehow imagine that I was asking for the definition of a bolus and that I was too stupid to know that.
Also someone got on me about using thick vinyl gloves when doing anything with the T's enclosure.  The sling at this size I doubt could bite through the thick vinyl gloves but maybe he can.  My question, if you think me and my vinyl gloves is being unsafe, then what would be safer?  No gloves?  Today when I removed an extra cricket (The T had already eaten one), I spent several minutes focusing on exactly where the T was in the vial, where the dying extra cricket was and back and forth so I could prepare for how I would open the lid, at what angle, and how I would use the tongs to get it without hopefully disturbing the T too much.  All this planning was for safety.  I have read the bite reports and so even with my lack of previous experience, I'm trying to be as safe as I can. 
Also, a note about the arachnophobia thing.  Maybe I overstated it.  I don't get scared of spiders in the house whereas my partner and family members too.  While I don't like an unexpected wild spider crawling on my arm, I'm not terrified by it by any means.  However since I've been studying Ts and slings, I find that they don't freak me out.  For instance, the fact that I can see the spinnerets on the sling for me is endearing and removes the grossness/scaredness that I might have had with other "true spiders."
Thanks again to the posters that contributed information without judging me.  

Z

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## mistertim (Apr 22, 2016)

I don't think the vinyl gloves is really a "bad" thing, just that it isn't necessarily useful and you should make sure that it doesn't give you any false sense of security when working around your P. metallica. It seems you are taking safety pretty seriously which is good. I also believe you when you say that it wouldn't really bother you to have it crawling on your arm...but that is different than saying you would be able to control your (completely natural) reaction if, in the blink of an eye, it went from being in its enclosure to running up your arm. That takes time and experience, because you're basically fighting against your human reflexes. I've had an Avic run up my arm like that and it took everything I had to keep from jumping out of my skin and stay calm...and while Avics are quick little buggers, they don't hold a candle to Pokies and their venom isn't anywhere close to the same strength.

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## viper69 (Apr 22, 2016)

Zach T said:


> and of course I knew what the definition of a bolus was


You'd be surprised Zach, I remember not long ago someone asked what it was, as in the definition. It's a wise idea to remove them as it will prevent mold growth, and mite attraction. Mites are the scourge of all T keepers!

Also, not sure if you know, but molts don't grow mold, they can remain in there as long as necessary. A lot of new people ask that, and given you have a fast, arboreal OW you may be less inclined to open the lid hah.

They are a beautiful species. I would definitely take pics as it grows because once its colors come in, you will likely not remember that it wasn't always as blue as it will turn out to be.

Also, google up Bag Transfer Method, you may use it for this species as they are quite fast. Plus who wants to lose a T, let alone an OW T. I've used the method for fast Ts, even NW ones.

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## Trenor (Apr 22, 2016)

viper69 said:


> what's your point as that wasn't mine or anyone else who posted in this thread?


That's what this statement means:


viper69 said:


> buying a Pokie, well that wasn't exactly kosher......





viper69 said:


> The point isn't whether one CAN do that, it's a question of whether one SHOULD.
> 
> Generally speaking most things in life that have a series of increasing difficulty levels typically require an increase in skill or experience; a "ladder" if you will from easy to more challenging. Most agree that Pokies are an advanced genus for advanced keepers.


Yeah, I agreed with that saying I didn't think a Pokie for your 1st tarantula is a good idea.



viper69 said:


> re there exceptions ABSOLUTELY, however that cannot be determined until after the fact, as in the OPs case. The OP might go on to be the largest Poki breeder in the world!!!


This is also true. Correct me if I am wrong but one of the guys posting early on in this thread started with Pokies and as I understand he has done well.



viper69 said:


> Let's face it owning a Poki isn't the same as owning an E sp Red. If you think it is, that would be rather humorous at the least.


I never said it was, that statement was all you. 



viper69 said:


> Now, I think it's funny how in the herp world, where my exotic knowledge started, not one responsible person says to a PROSPECTIVE new, ie zero experience, snake owner the following, :
> 
> 1. Buy a cobra
> 2. Buy a coral snake
> ...


This seems a bit of apples or oranges. Those listed snakes can kill you, the Pokie bite while very painful (given the bite reports) will not. 

I'm not saying the OP made the best choice for a first tarantula. However we can't change that. IMO a uninformed person with a Pokie has a greater chance of ending badly than one with better information. Regardless, he got some help and maybe that will make a deference on how things turn out.

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## viper69 (Apr 22, 2016)

Trenor said:


> That's what this statement means:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I hear ya. Correct that statement you quoted me on was all mine, didn't mean to infer you thought so as well.

As for the herps, you left out the lizards (non-lethal). My herp example, wasn't so much about comparing animals that can kill you with animals that have no recorded human deaths (Ts). It was about the benefits of starting with easier to care animals both for the animal's benefit and the owners'. I don't think a Panther chameleon is going to kill anyone , but they are more challenging to care for than leopard geckos, having kept both chams and lep gex I can guarantee that. Uroplatus are also an intermediate genus as well, some species of that genus more so than others.

I agree w/you regarding being informed and moving forward, very true, again for the benefit of the animal and its owner.

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## cold blood (Apr 23, 2016)

Zach T said:


> Hello all!
> 
> Well I've been arachnophobic all my life, but some reason fell in love in a few different T species.  I know most will say not a good idea, but my first T is a p. metallica, a 1" sling possibly a little bigger.  I got it Monday.  I put it in it's enclosure/vial (it's a glass spice vial from the dollar store with perfect little vents on top not big enough for the sling to get out).  The substrate is orchid bark.
> I gave it a few days to settle in and then fed it yesterday.  It seemed like it was playing with the cricket for a while but then I saw it grab it and had it under its fangs.  Question, if the T has it there for at least five minutes, is it safe to assume that he will finish the meal?  Or do they ever decide not to?  Also, what does a bolus look like?  I have a feeling that I won't be able to tell what a bolus is.  Today with tongs I took out another old cricket that died in their and it kinda smeared the glass...do I have to clean that now or can I wait a while until I clean the vial (hopefully a while from now?).  I just am being very safe about everything.  (I wear thick vinyl gloves any time I open the vial to feed cricket or remove one.  I am planning on feeding it one cricket it's body size twice a week.  I mist a little bit every few days.  I want the humidity high but I don't want the substrate wet.





Zach T said:


> Wow,
> Did I make a mistake registering on this board?  I believe so.
> First of all, what in my post screams that I know nothing about caring for this animal?  You tell me to read care sheets...I can assure you all that I've read  tons of info on p. metallica and/or arboreals for months before acquiring this animal.  Of course I have a branch in the vial, actually I have two...I understand it is an arboreal species.
> 
> And how does my post sound like a bad joke?  I've not stated any absolute husbandy no-nos I don't believe and if I did, I would hope you would enlighten me in a normal tone instead of going after me.


I was going to stay away from this thread altogether, but then I read this second paragraph, and valid points are certainly raised.    I will enlighten you as to all the no no's and mistakes that got people up in arms....for the good of the spider and to help you as a keeper (hopefully), not to slam you, so please take no offense.

Before I get there I will reiterate just how poor of a decision this species was.   Its growth will occur at a much faster rate than will your ability to gain the appreciable knowledge and experience to deal with it.  Now its not too tough, but in a few molts, it could be a very different story.  

As for getting over a fear, it sounds like you are doing well, but this is exactly the type of spider that could easily re-kindle those old fears.  As a former arachnophobe, I can tell you the best thing is a docile, predictable t, that is hesitant to move quickly (this t is the exact opposite).  On top of that, you jumped past a lot of really terrific species that would have taught you invaluable information and lessons without much ultimate consequence.

Now onto the issues:

-the enclosure, it needs cross ventilation (glass jars are bad), venting only at the top is poor ventilation as any added moisture just floats out the top, causing an enclosure that wants to dry out too quickly.  And venting like you describe, especially on top is almost always too much ventilation...small punched or drilled holes are a better choice.  IMO your t should be housed in a 32oz. deli cup with several rings of ventilation punched around the top half...only a few or no holes on the lid.  This is not only inexpensive, but one of the best vessels for rearing an arboreal available.

-substrate...bark is a big no-no.  You want something soft as a cushion, as well as something that the t can use in its architecture as well as burrow in, and yes pokies will burrow when small....in fact most arboreals (aside from avics) do.  The arboreal lifestyle becomes more apparent with size.  Coco fiber, jungle mix, peat moss or just plain cheap top soil are all fine choices...orchid bark is not.

-misting as basically a useless thing to do.  A water dish should be present and the sub should be kept damp.  On top of being a poor way to gain humidity, misting is a great way to spook your t, especially in a smaller enclosure....spooked pokies are something you will want to avoid, I guarantee that.  In fact, you want to worry less about the term humidity and focus more on just keeping water in the dish and part of the sub damp...humidity is one of the things stressed by care sheets that gets newcomers in trouble and kills spiders.  I suggest getting a syringe for filling the water dish and the occasional dribble on the webbing (once the t has webbed), this way you don't need to open the enclosure and can provide water through the ventilation.

-Thick gloves are a bad idea, you will lose the bits of dexterity you need to move smoothly and do the things you need to do...i.e, they will make you a little clumsier than normal.  You are using tongs, which is good, but if they do not allow you to get inside the enclosure AND keep your fleshy parts out, they are too small and you need larger ones.   With the aforementioned deli cup, you can peel back the pliable lid, only exposing enough room for the tongs, leaving you safely outside the zone of surprise.   I've never though of using gloves to prevent a bite, I decided to use experience instead, and I wish you would have as well.

-Nobody told you to read care sheets, nor will they here...anyone that ever does should be questioned immediately...care sheets kill more spiders than they help as they demand specific temps and number specific humidity, focusing on these levels while at the same time ignoring cross ventilation, which is actually one of the most important aspect of keeping arboreals.

-Reading up or watching vids can in no way prepare you, the only things they will do is give you a false sense of confidence...which when keeping advanced ts, is one of the most dangerous things of all.  Experience is the only real teacher.


Aside from the branches (and adding a water dish if you haven't), you should add plastic plants surrounding the wood pieces (flat wood is better than thin branches so they can stretch out on a firm platform), these plants will provide cover and anchor points for webbing.   A pokie without proper cover won't be any fun to deal with at all.

All in all, I believe, as most obviously do, that you and the spider would be best served parting ways until you can gain the proper experience.  There are so many incredible species that would make much much better choices...and even blue ones!! (GBB/T. cyaneolum).

Your mistake was NOT joining these boards, it was getting a pokie as your first...we react simply because we care about this hobby very much.

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## Trenor (Apr 23, 2016)

cold blood said:


> I was going to stay away from this thread altogether, but then I read this second paragraph, and valid points are certainly raised.    I will enlighten you as to all the no no's and mistakes that got people up in arms....for the good of the spider and to help you as a keeper (hopefully), not to slam you, so please take no offense.
> 
> Before I get there I will reiterate just how poor of a decision this species was.   Its growth will occur at a much faster rate than will your ability to gain the appreciable knowledge and experience to deal with it.  Now its not too tough, but in a few molts, it could be a very different story.
> 
> ...


I'm going to just start quoting CB's post anytime someone needs information on arboreals. Lots of great information and some really good advice.

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## louise f (Apr 23, 2016)

Trenor said:


> I'm going to just start quoting CB's post anytime someone needs information on arboreals. Lots of great information and some really good advice.



So true. That is why i call him CB the alltimes great guy MR novel maker

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## Poec54 (Apr 23, 2016)

Zach T said:


> Also someone got on me about using thick vinyl gloves when doing anything with the T's enclosure.  The sling at this size I doubt could bite through the thick vinyl gloves but maybe he can.  My question, if you think me and my vinyl gloves is being unsafe, then what would be safer?  No gloves?


I wear disposable vinyl gloves when I work with my tarantulas for sanitary reasons, not wanting to get bacteria on my hands when picking up crickets (and their saliva) and boluses.  They're worthless for preventing bites.

I used to have a large collection of cobras for years, and was asked why I didn't wear gloves to protect me from bites.  Any glove that is thick enough or hard enough to deflect cobra fangs will be too hard for you to move your fingers in.  You'd be dropping snake hooks and fumbling with opening and closing cage locks.  Gloves for safety would *increase* your chances of being bitten, because you're suddenly very slow and clumsy.  Same reason soldiers long ago stopped wearing metal armour head to foot like knights used to.

Gloves are equally inappropriate for tarantulas.  Their fangs can get up to 1" and they are strong animals that can dig thru hard soils.

Without being harsh, you know so little about tarantulas, and Poecilotheria is one of the worst choices you could have made.  There's a lot more to selecting tarantulas than color.  Sorry, but it's an poor decision and you've got pride and ego wrapped up in it.  This hobby isn't about instant gratification, and acquisitions aren't irreversible.  If you get bitten and wind up in an emergency room in the middle of the night, it would seem to be your concern only.  But you have no control over who knows and who uses a camera phone to record your visit.  It could go viral on YouTube.  And then it's no longer just you.  It's also the thousands of other people who own tarantulas that may pay the price of regulations and bans, people that have kept these animals for decades.  One good bite could have serious repercussions for the entire hobby.  Legislators are already considering clamping down on the sale of Poecilotheria because of them being endangered in the wild.  When they find out about the nature of the bites, that only makes restrictions and bans more likely.

There's other blue spiders that are far better choices for beginners.  This spider will grow faster than your skills will.  We've have beginners with OBT's, who insisted on getting and keeping those, and a few months later they're afraid to open the cage, and then put them up for sale.  You can sell or trade your spider for one that isn't going to cause you stress as it matures.  As with other animals, when you're objective and honest with yourself, you don't start with the advanced species.  They're advanced for a reason, and shortcutting the foundation of experience, skill, and knowledge doesn't do you any good, nor the animal or the hobby.

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## Toxoderidae (Apr 23, 2016)

@Trenor if you're referring to me, no I did not start with pokies, I just started early with them.


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## Trenor (Apr 23, 2016)

Toxoderidae said:


> @Trenor if you're referring to me, no I did not start with pokies, I just started early with them.


Ah, I misunderstood.

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## Toxoderidae (Apr 23, 2016)

Trenor said:


> Ah, I misunderstood.


No biggie, I started with them early enough where people would consider it starting with them lol!


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## Tfisher (Apr 23, 2016)

This reminds me of myself when I began this hobby. I had obt as my second t and it wasn't a smart choice. I had kids in the house and next thing I knew I had a lose orange blur running away. Long story short I learned from that situation lucky the easy way. From that point on I learned one of the best lessons..       RESPECT!

I rehomed my t and gradually bumped my experience. I think the biggest thing that people are stressing that this situation can have negative impacts on our hobby and sometimes may come off as calus to a new keepers but it's because these situations constantly repeat themselves..

Also I don't know if anyone has reccomended this but go buy the tarantula keepers handbook.

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## Ellenantula (Apr 23, 2016)

Zach T said:


> While I don't like an unexpected wild spider crawling on my arm, I'm not terrified by it by any means.  However since I've been studying Ts and slings, I find that they don't freak me out.


This is me.  I have learned to deliberately 'freeze' if I feel something on me instead of flinging/knocking at it.  I get a lot of mosquito bites that way.  But my new mantra is to 'do no harm' and assess before reacting.  It took a LONG time to learn this.  And it still takes me a second to remember to freeze & assess before reacting.  And I admit, I could 'forget' one day.  Instinct can win over reasoned logic.

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## Poec54 (Apr 23, 2016)

Tfisher said:


> Also I don't know if anyone has reccomended this but go but the tarantula keepers handbook.


Not really a good book to recommend these days unfortunately.  Besides some poor care advice (keeping tarantulas as dry as possible, keeping Avics without substrate, etc), the TKG is very pro-handling.  There's too many outdated things in it for it to be relevant in today's hobby.

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## Tfisher (Apr 23, 2016)

True but it does cover basic anatomy and lots of questions asked by new-comers. I can see what you mean about outdated tho. 

Is there a new book you'd recommend Poec?


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## Ellenantula (Apr 23, 2016)

Isn't TKG due to release an updated version more in tempo with today's hobby?


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## Necromion (Apr 23, 2016)

as has been stated a thousand times over but pokies are not an easy T to take care of, hell no old world is easy for a newbie. That being said the biggest thing that you will have to look for with them especially as they age is their speed, its ungodly and will surprise you the first time it bolts out of the cage. It is some that no amount of home work taught me to be prepared for. 

to give you an example, I studied for about 2 months to keep Stromatapelma calceatum, a species of old world tarantula that I know makes many experienced keepers pause. Not only because of its speed, but also because of its venom and temperament. well I felt I was ready, I asked a few people who had kept them and did everything to prepare myself outside of actually keeping one. Thus I made the purchase, bought my first of the species and things were going for the first few molts. it got to the size of a fifty cent piece (US currency) and it came time to rehouse the poor boy. welp immediately i got threat poses so i gave it an hour or two to "calm". Tried again to rehouse the spider and had it teleport up my 10" tongs, go up my arm and before I knew it, it had stopped on my forehead. Needless to say the speed startled the hell out of me, and I had kept pokies and Taps, before this one, so i was "prepared" or at least so i thought. 

Now that may seem silly to post and share, but my point is that while i didnt get bite by him or have him escape. Even doing my homework i wasnt prepared for the animal. That being said I dont want to sound like I'm saying "go ahead and keep it" but you have already made the choice to keep the animal. In this situation i would suggest finding  out where the local reptile shows are and go just to meet the various arachnid breeders and ask them their experiences.  You can still keep the animal and have it live well but you need to be careful and dont do anything to foolish. 

P. metallica is not an animal you can handle, and dont believe the videos that say you can handle them, those people just havent been bit yet. 

TlR talk to people with first hand knowledge in person, and be careful they are living animals that no matter how much you read they can still do things that you will never be prepared for without lots of experiance.

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## Poec54 (Apr 23, 2016)

Tfisher said:


> True but it does cover basic anatomy and lots of questions asked by new-comers. I can see what you mean about outdated tho.



People buy tarantula books for species and care info, anatomy's incidental.  They want to know the specific needs of their spider(s), and in many cases how to breed them.  Since the huge influx of new tropical species occurred when Stan was selling off his collection (mid 2000's), he never had a chance to own most of what's on dealer pricelists today.  The hobby's changed tremendously in the past decade. 

Although I haven't read it in a while, a friend of mine wrote a book on tarantulas worth checking out, Sam Marshall, who's a professional arachnologist and son of the late actor E G Marshall.  Not sure what Sam's up to lately, but he had spent time in Guyana working with T blondi, and that is in the book (written by someone else) _"The Tarantula Scientist."_

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## Poec54 (Apr 23, 2016)

Ellenantula said:


> Isn't TKG due to release an updated version more in tempo with today's hobby?


Yes, Stan's working on it. I _strongly _advised him to talk to as many of today's big collectors and breeders as he could before completing the final TKG, so that it could be up-to-date with the multitude of changes that have occurred since he was keeping spiders.  I'm hoping this edition sets a standard for care books, for other authors to emulate.  He's a smart guy, has a true passion for spiders, and has a great writing style.  Stan's certainly capable of hitting a home run with this one.

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## Poec54 (Apr 23, 2016)

Necromion said:


> to give you an example, I studied for about 2 months to keep Stromatopelma calceatum, *a species of old world tarantula that I know makes many experienced keepers pause.* Not only because of its speed, but also because of its venom and temperament. well I felt I was ready, I asked a few people who had kept them and did everything to prepare myself outside of actually keeping one. Thus I made the purchase, bought my first of the species and things were going for the first few molts. it got to the size of a fifty cent piece (US currency) and it came time to rehouse the poor boy. welp immediately i got threat poses so i gave it an hour or two to "calm". Tried again to rehouse the spider and had it teleport up my 10" tongs, go up my arm and before I knew it, it had stopped on my forehead. Needless to say the speed startled the hell out of me, and I had kept pokies and Taps, before this one, so i was "prepared" or at least so i thought.


Here's my Stromatopelma story: Last year I had 14 Stromatopelma, each in 32 oz deli cups.  They started off as slings and soon were were up to 3".  I didn't relish the idea of having to reach down in the cups with forceps to do routine maintenance (picking up water bowls and boluses), not knowing if they'd zip up my arm.  _Nor did I look forward to rehousing them_, but I knew they had to come out.

So one by one, I used forceps to carefully remove the water bowl and cork bark so they wouldn't tumble around.  Then I put an empty 32 oz deli on top of it, the open ends touching, with my hand holding them snuggly together.  I then tilted the top (empty) cup so there was a slight gap, and put an 8" lollipop stick thru that, so I could gently prod the spider out of it's retreat and cup, into the empty one.  Once it was at the far end of the empty cup, I slid a lid across the bottom and snapped it shut.  As I got them in the cups, I used a flashlight to vent sex them.  Phase one completed.

I had 14 plastic storage containers set up with moderate ventilation, slightly moist top soil, cork slab leaning against the side (their new retreat), plastic plants, and a 1 oz water bowl (soufflé cup, bought by the sleeve).  I slid the tops back a few inches, and positioned a deli cup (with a calceatum inside) angled steeply like I was 'pouring' it into the cage.  This limited the options on where the spider could go.  I took off the lid and used the lollipop stick to softly touch the spider's back legs.  The harder the touch, the bigger reaction you're going to get.  As they walked/ran into the new cage, I slid the top closed.  Some dove under the cork slab, some zipped around the cage, but once the lid's on, it doesn't matter.  One of the keys is that there's no gaps at the far end of the lid, as you don't want the spider to go in the new cage on one side, and instantly run out the other end.  Phase two completed.  I was relieved, I don't mind telling you, and I've had tarantulas for decades.

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## Necromion (Apr 23, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> Here's my Stromatopelma story: Last year I had 14 Stromatopelma, each in 32 oz deli cups.  They started off as slings and soon were were up to 3".  I didn't relish the idea of having to reach down in the cups with forceps to do routine maintenance (picking up water bowls and boluses), not knowing if they'd zip up my arm.  _Nor did I look forward to rehousing them_, but I knew they had to come out.
> 
> So one by one, I used forceps to carefully remove the water bowl and cork bark so they wouldn't tumble around.  Then I put an empty 32 oz deli on top of it, the open ends touching, with my hand holding them snuggly together.  I then tilted the top (empty) cup so there was a slight gap, and put an 8" lollipop stick thru that, so I could gently prod the spider out of it's retreat and cup, into the empty one.  Once it was at the far end of the empty cup, I slid a lid across the bottom and snapped it shut.  As I got them in the cups, I used a flashlight to vent sex them.  Phase one completed.
> 
> I had 14 plastic storage containers set up with moderate ventilation, slightly moist top soil, cork slab leaning against the side (their new retreat), plastic plants, and a 1 oz water bowl (soufflé cup, bought by the sleeve).  I slid the tops back a few inches, and positioned a deli cup (with a calceatum inside) angled steeply like I was 'pouring' it into the cage.  This limited the options on where the spider could go.  I took off the lid and used the lollipop stick to softly touch the spider's back legs.  The harder the touch, the bigger reaction you're going to get.  As they walked/ran into the new cage, I slid the top closed.  Some dove under the cork slab, some zipped around the cage, but once the lid's on, it doesn't matter.  One of the keys is that there's no gaps at the far end of the lid, as you don't want the spider to go in the new cage on one side, and instantly run out the other end.  Phase two completed.  I was relieved, I don't mind telling you, and I've had tarantulas for decades.


Definitely a good thing to share and close to what I do now with my two. Though honestly despite, their reputation and temper I do love this  little beauties.


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## Venom1080 (Apr 23, 2016)

Zach T said:


> Hello all!
> 
> Well I've been arachnophobic all my life, but some reason fell in love in a few different T species.  I know most will say not a good idea, but my first T is a p. metallica, a 1" sling possibly a little bigger.  I got it Monday.  I put it in it's enclosure/vial (it's a glass spice vial from the dollar store with perfect little vents on top not big enough for the sling to get out).  The substrate is orchid bark.
> I gave it a few days to settle in and then fed it yesterday.  It seemed like it was playing with the cricket for a while but then I saw it grab it and had it under its fangs.  Question, if the T has it there for at least five minutes, is it safe to assume that he will finish the meal?  Or do they ever decide not to?  Also, what does a bolus look like?  I have a feeling that I won't be able to tell what a bolus is.  Today with tongs I took out another old cricket that died in their and it kinda smeared the glass...do I have to clean that now or can I wait a while until I clean the vial (hopefully a while from now?).  I just am being very safe about everything.  (I wear thick vinyl gloves any time I open the vial to feed cricket or remove one.  I am planning on feeding it one cricket it's body size twice a week.  I mist a little bit every few days.  I want the humidity high but I don't want the substrate wet.
> ...


first of all, bad idea. why did you get it when you knew it was a bad idea? boggles me really. glass is not my favorite for sure. plastic deli cups are my fav for arboreal slings. i would recommend a 16oz deli cup for yours. some cross ventilation, peat moss or coco fiber for substrate, water dish. keep it moist but not soaked. temps 70-80 at all times. with temps higher in the day and lower at night. its ok if it drops into the high 60s at night. about 2" of substrate to allow burrowing. some stuff for it to climb on and hide behind. thats EXACTLY how i would keep it. BUT, i would recommend selling it or trading it for a better beginner T. keepers with experience would take it off your hands and give you a far better beginner T for it.

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## YagerManJennsen (Apr 23, 2016)

So here is an idea. I'm not sure if anyone else said this as I did not read the whole thread and feel free to hate on this. Slings in general do not necessarily reflect the kind of attitude they will grow to acquire as adults. I would say you have about a Year to gain as much experience as possible. My idea is for you to get your hands on a psalmopoeus species. Ann adult would be the best option if you can find one because it is already grown and has devolved it's individual attitude. Even though you basically only have a year, getting a sub-adult/adult psalmopoeus will better prepare you for what is to come when your P. metallica sling grows up.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Tfisher (Apr 23, 2016)

The idea is not to have beginners start with advanced or intermediate species. Start with an avicularia to tie down your husbandry and get over your"fear". Please don't go tossing other intermediate species at a beginner...

Reactions: Agree 4


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## YagerManJennsen (Apr 23, 2016)

Tfisher said:


> The idea is not to have beginners start with advanced or intermediate species. Start with an avicularia to tie down your husbandry and get over your"fear". Please don't go tossing other intermediate species at a beginner...


I'm simply trying to offer a possible solution. I'm not trying to shove a psalmo in his face. I have to agree with you though. Even the calmest of Psalmos are to advanced for a beginner.


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## mistertim (Apr 23, 2016)

The concept is sound, but I agree with Tfisher...a Psalmo is still too much for a beginner. I know I wouldn't have been able to handle one when I first started; been in the hobby coming up on a year and I'm just now planning on getting a P. cambridgei or irminia in the near future. An adult/sub-adult Avic might not be a bad idea, though usually starting out with an arboreal isn't a great plan, but that ship has sorta sailed here.

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## Zach T (May 3, 2016)

Hello all,

  I'm the originator of this thread.  I have read all the posts and I appreciate all those wanting to give me advice.  My p. metallica is eating twice a week and I've had it for two weeks now.  Just recently when I picked up the vial to look at it, it started to run around its enclosure and branch at a tremendous speed!  It had never done that before but it sure is fast, and I know some of you had told me of its tremendous speed.  
  Yesterday I put a cricket in its enclosure and it seemed totally uninterested in it.  I then started worrying about leaving it in there so hours later I took my big long tongs and tried to get the cricket.  The cricket started moving around and at this point, T striked on it and got it.
  Today T is on the branch and the abdomen is as fat as I've seen it and it has a shiny tone to it.  Premolt?  First molt in my care is a big deal and I'm excited and nervous about it.  Once it's over I'll feel better.  

Z

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## Thistles (May 3, 2016)

Maybe premolt, maybe just full  generally, but not always, they will stop eating shortly before molting.


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## Ryuti (May 3, 2016)

I'm just gonna give my opinion from someone who almost made the mistake of jumping into something even more advanced (h. mac) as my 3rd tarantula.

Don't jump into old worlds right away if you want to get into them eventually. Get a psalmo first. That's what I did and they're a lot of fun to work with and extremely pretty.

Obviously you already have one but just be prepared for teleports and running up tongs. 

You said you feel like you made a mistake joining these forums, trust me i know what you mean

People are extremely passionate in this hobby and only have the best interest of the animals at heart. It does get rather tiresome whenever someone asks for advice for X animal, and people have to throw in their own opinions as to which animal you SHOULD/SHOULD'VE  gotten, but these people have years of experience and you should at least think about what they have to say.

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## Mossae (May 3, 2016)

My second species after G. rosea was Poecilotheria pederseni(currently vitatta?). Just be careful when working with them, i've found slings rather easy to raise.


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## Venom1080 (May 3, 2016)

Mossae said:


> My second species after G. rosea was Poecilotheria pederseni(currently vitatta?). Just be careful when working with them, i've found slings rather easy to raise.


adults are ten times harder than slings. Don't think you've seen all the species has to offer when you have a 2 inch sling.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Venom1080 (May 3, 2016)

Zach T said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I'm the originator of this thread.  I have read all the posts and I appreciate all those wanting to give me advice.  My p. metallica is eating twice a week and I've had it for two weeks now.  Just recently when I picked up the vial to look at it, it started to run around its enclosure and branch at a tremendous speed!  It had never done that before but it sure is fast, and I know some of you had told me of its tremendous speed.
> Yesterday I put a cricket in its enclosure and it seemed totally uninterested in it.  I then started worrying about leaving it in there so hours later I took my big long tongs and tried to get the cricket.  The cricket started moving around and at this point, T striked on it and got it.
> ...


Could we see a pic of the cage? Or pm me a pic? Just interested. Probably not premolt, pokie slings eat like beasts when it's in premolt it will stop taking prey. I remember my first molt, very exciting stuff!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Zach T (May 9, 2016)

Hi!  
So here's an update.  On Thu I tried to feed it a cricket and to no avail.  It wouldn't eat.  I removed the cricket the next day which I hated doing because I disturbed some webbing trying to get the stupid cricket out.  It is now Monday and I tried to feed it again and still not bites.  Here's where I'm hoping you guys can shed some light.  The sling obviously knows about the prey because he walks toward them and sometimes does this dance thing where he bobs his front legs up and down almost like irritated.  I can't tell if he's hunting the crickets or making a fit that they are interrupting his space.  Any ideas?  Thanks.

Z


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## Poec54 (May 9, 2016)

It's irritated, either not hungry or the cricket is too large.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## mistertim (May 9, 2016)

Could just be premolt and isn't interested in eating. I've seen Ts do that sort of stuff before. Just trying to get the intruder out of their space probably.

Reactions: Like 1


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## xFujimoto (May 9, 2016)

Sounds like he might be in premolt. It's the only reason any of my slings have refused food, they're often pretty voracious eaters. And often slings aren't in premolt long! So keep an eye out a molt, or be wary that you might see your little guy flipped over in the process.

Make sure he has a steady supply


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## Chris LXXIX (May 9, 2016)

Nothing to worry about, IMO. If there aren't evident pre-molt signs, wait a couple of days and try again.


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## Zach T (May 10, 2016)

Thanks for your replies.  The crickets that I got for my pixie frog and the T weeks ago are pretty large now.  I don't know if the crickets are now too large for the sling...?  The sling is approx 1 inch body length and the crickets are that or less but fat so I don't know if I should order smaller crickets?  Maybe I should wait a couple days and try to feed one more time and if it doesn't eat then order the smaller ones?  I've just read about how slings will eat up to the day of molt and so am slightly confused.

Z


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## Mauri (May 10, 2016)

Welcome OP, shame you got from what I saw some pretty nasty treatment. Have owned some slings for a month now, avic sp amazonicas and have experienced the non eating. You can always try pre-killed food if you think they are in pre-moult.

Oh and if you are worried about boluses stick in an isopod. (they will act as cleaner crew).

And be carefull not to get your bark wet. I had to do a re-house as I got some mold (my water dish was wicking and I didnt realise so my subs got very moist) and I now got things right re the enclosure. Got a nice bit of bark centrally located..being able to see everywhere in your enclosure makes things a lot easier. I also have some plastic plants on the side and within a day of re-housing got some nice webbing going on.

For a sling that size (mine are similar) i'd use micro crickets or 2nd instars. My local pet shop guy had a look at my t's and said they can go for 2nd instars. Even if you get some micro crickets you can still care for them and so far I bought a tub of 2nd instars and now I have two huge tubs of crickets (they need cleaning out every 4 days or so).

Am going to try a mini mealworm tonight.

Another thing that might indicate pre-moult is that t's will web themselves in. My other sling as made herself a little web hut (am guessing it's female because it's highly strung).

I tried to feed her a week ago and she got spooked, but am guessing if it was pre-moult or just she didnt like the size of the cricket. So far a week later and no moult...

p.s I do agree though that a poki is quite a step up. I went with avics and that has been tricky enough. That's not to say I couldnt have got a poki as my first T, but I have had other troubles like skittish behaviour and having to rehouse so it's not persay the T itself but other issues you cant foresee. (thats really the issue here because of their speed you arent sure when they decided to go walkies, and trust me having my sp amazonica doing this it is unnerving) It's not because am afraid it's just you dont know their temperaments.

One bit of advice I might give is when you do open the container to feed etc perhaps do it inside something that if the T does decide to move fast it cant escape or fall. And have a catch cup nearby.

((Oh catchcups (a 32 oz deli cup) are also usefull to put crickets in. I found using fingers and then tongs works better. Have only managed a few tong feeds (with such small prey items its a fiddle))

I.e When the <edit> hits the fan as it were with a docile T you dont have that added x factor.

But I disagree with all those slamming you for your choice. At the end of the day if you feel confident getting one, do so. And then it's up to people here to go out of their way to help you. Criticising is in my opinion pointless. It's better to help!!!

I wish you all the best!

I think as long as the abdomen is bigger than the rest of the body your t is healthy.

One of mine looks shinier and blacker which could again be pre-moult.

Until it happens it's the waiting game.

Reactions: Dislike 2 | Disagree 5


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## Toxoderidae (May 10, 2016)

P. metallica is the slowest and weakest of the pokies, but it is the stockiest, meaning they can put up more of a fight. Just OP, be careful, don't be an idiot.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## elysium (May 10, 2016)

Mauri said:


> Oh and if you are worried about boluses stick in an isopod. (they will act as cleaner crew).


A few questions on this: I unearthed a bunch of isopods at my local forest while searching for good pieces of bark and driftwood for my enclosures. Would it be safe to catch them and put them in my T enclosures? Do you need a certain number of them per tank? Do they reproduce within the tank? I suppose they would feed of waste so not much feeding needed. Do these guys thrive in dry substrate (coco fibre) as well or do they require moisture to survive?


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## Mauri (May 10, 2016)

I ordered them my local pet shop. The owner has several t's and lizards etc. I wouldnt use one you can catch yourself unless you can be sure they havent eaten any pesticides. I.e they feed on decaying wood and I believe mites and will scavenge dead things like boluses left from a T.

So for me you apply the same rule you would to prey items (i.e dont feed your t's locally caught crickets etc).

And they do like dark/moisture. The pot they came in has damp soil with bits of wood etc and there's a bit of cardboard which I moist every week or so. Have only used one isopod for each sling. So they wont be breeding.

I think they live a few yrs.

So if you are going to use one in a terrestrial enclosure I'd put in some moss and try and give it a spray once in a while. Remembering for your arid species it's better to have it dry and the for the isopod to die than your t.

p.s also be carefull what wood u pick up. To be honest I'd play it safe and use cork bark bought online or from a pet shop. I started off with bark from the garden which I baked. It got wet (wasnt exactly my fault this) and I got mold. Whether this would have been the same with cork bark (I have since cut up a large piece which I had, and should have done from the start, schoolboy error) that's anyone guess. But it is meant to be more resistant to mold.

Ofc if it's just driftwood for an arid species and you have baked it beforehand I would have thought it would be ok. You know for something like a GBB...(that said I think I am going to use just a hide and some plastic plants for my arid species and stick to cork bark for arbs).

I'd check though first if poss.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## EulersK (May 10, 2016)

<edit>

@Zach T
Follow the advice that @Poec54 and @Venom1080  are offering. On top of that, do some research and follow advice from experienced keepers. You've got a new hobbyist that made the exact same mistakes as you giving poor husbandry advice on an advanced species. You may have issues with me, but take this lesson: Be careful who you learn from.

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## Poec54 (May 10, 2016)

Mauri said:


> His seems to be ok as well. So we must be doing something right!


 
As plant collectors say:_ "Either you're doing something right, or it's managed to survive in spite of how you're keeping it."_

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## Toxoderidae (May 10, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> As plant collectors say:_ "Either you're doing something right, or it's managed to survive in spite of how you're keeping it."_


My mother tried gardening once. Dark times those were. We do not speak of those days.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 6


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## cold blood (May 10, 2016)

EulersK said:


> do some research and follow advice from experienced keepers. You've got a new hobbyist that made the exact same mistakes as you giving poor husbandry advice on an advanced species. You may have issues with me, but take this lesson: Be careful who you learn from.


This is very important for newbies to understand....when a newcomer comes to this site, they are doing so to gain knowledge from experienced keepers...newbs helping newbs will actually *not* help anyone.   So pay attention to were the info is coming from and how its received by *actual* experienced members.



Mauri said:


> Eh? Hope that wasnt aimed at me. How rude! At least you could point out my mistakes or bad advice before telling people to ignore me. (not quite sure what you are referring to in re what myself and the op have done wrong).


Mauri, you are seriously one of the most rude individuals I have ever encountered on *any* online forum, yet you have the gall to continually call others rude...pot calling the kettle black is how my late grandma would have phrased it.

The next line is absolutely laughable, downright hilarious in fact.  See, the op asked the same thing, and I went to *great* *lengths* to do exactly as he (and now you) asked for...point out the mistakes...yet when I did so, and in a very polite manner I must say, you chose to dislike the post...despite the fact that it was easily the most well received post in this entire thread based on all the positive feedback.    SO what is it, do you actually want mistakes pointed out or not....you say you do, but your actions say otherwise.


And yes, @EulersK was most certainly referring to you, as was I.    You come here asking for basic info and needing lots of help (which is fine and nothing to be ashamed of, we all started there), yet a few weeks later you are responding to newbies like you are the most experienced person on this forum....dude you aren't even in the top 1000.   Give advice based on experience, not on here say or things you read....that's what care sheets do and we all know how reliable they are.

And before you get all fired up as you do, keep in mind that despite your attitude, I have on multiple occasions went out of my way to help you and be friendly to you.

Reactions: Agree 7 | Informative 1 | Love 1 | Award 2


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## EulersK (May 10, 2016)

Toxoderidae said:


> Hey @Poec54 do you know what a meme is? We should find a way to make an arachnoboards themed meme.






cold blood said:


> This is very important for newbies to understand....when a newcomer comes to this site, they are doing so to gain knowledge from experienced keepers...newbs helping newbs will actually *not* help anyone.   So pay attention to were the info is coming from and how its received by *actual* experienced members.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Very well put, thank you. My sentiments exactly. We had a thread on here a few weeks back from a new hobbyist publicly thanking the users on this forum. I love seeing things like that, because I feel exactly the same way. The like of Poec54, Advan, yourself, Chris, and several others are the reason I've been successful in this hobby so far. Many users here come across as rude, but they're not. They're just a no-nonsense group of people that don't sugar coat advice (I believe you said that?).

<edit>

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## EulersK (May 10, 2016)

Tarantula1995 said:


> You actually reported him for trolling, ok ? Pot calling kettle once again maybe, so if you consider what @cold blood told you to be "trolling", should @EulersK then report you for harassing him through DM?


Nah, he's bound to leave eventually. Just a matter of time. Although, I'd appreciate it if he at least used the term "troll" properly. I can't really see how @cold blood was trolling at all. 

Troll: Noun. One who makes claims or statements with the sole intent of frustrating, infuriating, mocking, or otherwise causing distress to another person.
"He made claims about setting up his first T, a P. metallica, with a sponge in the water dish, a heat mat, a humidifier, and a heat lamp. He was then never heard from again. He's a troll."

Reactions: Agree 6


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## Poec54 (May 10, 2016)

Mauri said:


> The issue here is you that some of you here have a certain way of doing things and dont like it when your world is questioned.



We enjoy stimulating conversations with experienced tarantula people that 'question our world.'  This hobby is all about new ideas and better approaches.  That's what's got the hobby this far.  What gets tiring is the periodic flamboyant entrance of beginners with their drama and temper flare ups.  You're far from the first beginner to come here and pick fights with experienced collectors and breeders.  And someone else will be along before long to take your place.  We've seen it play out many times.

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## Venom1080 (May 10, 2016)

Mauri said:


> Reported for trolling.
> 
> Seriously I wasnt born yesterday. And dont think you are clever playing the good samaritan.
> 
> ...


you are a complete joke. you are a absolute beginner, if you want to give advice, please state that you are not very knowledgeable on the topic, (like ive seen some awesome members do) and then give whatever advice you want. you have like a month of experience, dont act like you know everything.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


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## grimmjowls (May 10, 2016)

EulersK said:


> View attachment 210429
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My favorite meme.


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## Chris LXXIX (May 10, 2016)

It's Mauri VS All!

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Mike B (May 11, 2016)



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## Mike B (May 11, 2016)

When would some of you more experienced keepers say someone is ready for trying a P. Metallica. I don't own one yet but it's definitely on my list too own one in the future. I'm a former reptile owner of both snakes and lizards. I realize that's like trying to compare apples to oranges but all animals especially ones with Venom command a certain level of caution and respect.


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## Toxoderidae (May 11, 2016)

I jumped pretty quickly, but I have 3 metallicas now, one is a subadult, so I can give you a pretty good idea. Regardless, I'm not the most experienced out there, I can just give a rough idea. If you're going down the arboreal tree, (see what I did there?) I'd start with Avics or Psalmopoeus. P. cam and P. irminia are perfect for preparing for a pokie, esp. metallica, who is more like an avic in temper. Psalmos are going to be more feisty compared to pokies (aside from regalis ornata and rufilata, the largest sp.) Metallica is the smallest, but the stockiest. Their build is more similar to an avic honestly. Aside from venom, a P. metallica is an avic on some insane steroids. Slings are very flighty, good luck spotting them aside from feeding. Adults and subadults are highly photosensitive. My female hides her face when I shine my flashlight on her. They're fairly calm otherwise. Sling temper and adult is wildly different. Adults are very laid back, only doing much if you really get in their "grill" whilst slings will flip out if you look at them funny. Hope that gives you a base idea.

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## Mike B (May 11, 2016)

I guess I'm heading down the right road then. I'm getting an A. Versicolor tomorrow in the mail.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Mike B (May 11, 2016)

I was inspired by Rob C videos on youtube as far as avics and pokies are concerned.


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## bryverine (May 11, 2016)

Toxoderidae said:


> Hey @Poec54 do you know what a meme is? We should find a way to make an arachnoboards themed meme.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## REEFSPIDER (May 11, 2016)

This post has actually been very informative to me and I will be getting my first aboreals based on this thread aswell as the basic consensus that pokies aren't for newbs like myself. I've seen em in the shops too, when I bought my b. Vagans. I wanted that p. Metallica more, but I was well aware already of the dangers and precautions needed for this species. Not bashin on you OP  glad your spider is doing good and I don't think what you did is generally wrong but I would hate to lose pokies as a right to own because some one got one and got bit and then the wig heads in Washington ban them, so I understand that. I'm going to try my luck with a couple avic sp. as my g Pulchra and b vagans continue growing. P. Mets will have to wait for me.

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## lalberts9310 (May 11, 2016)

@Mauri you reported @cold blood for trolling?  Do you even know the definition of a troll? Seriously you're a big joke. CB is probably one of the most knowledgeable and nicest members here on the boards, you called out the wrong guy there bud.

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## lalberts9310 (May 11, 2016)

OP, not going to repeat what has been said. But I'll advise you to follow the advice given from @Poec54, and @cold blood. The best thing you can do.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## lalberts9310 (May 11, 2016)

Mike B said:


> When would some of you more experienced keepers say someone is ready for trying a P. Metallica. I don't own one yet but it's definitely on my list too own one in the future. I'm a former reptile owner of both snakes and lizards. I realize that's like trying to compare apples to oranges but all animals especially ones with Venom command a certain level of caution and respect.


Work your way up, gain experience. For OW aboreals, start with NW terestrials such as brachypelma, get a juvenile and raise it to adulthood, then get something like a GBB, A. geniculata, Nhandu sp. or Lasiodora sp., raise it to adulthood. Then try out an aboreal. A lot will recommend an avic for a 1st aboreal, but I like to recommend P. cambridgei, if you can manage an adult avic, then get P. cam, then try out P. Irminia or get a few Tapinauchenius sp. If you can handle and rehouse a few adult psalmos or taps, you'll have no problem dealing with a poecie.

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## lalberts9310 (May 11, 2016)

Mauri said:


> So please before you respond to any more of my posts think hard about using some intelligence or manners.


Practise what you preach, eh?

Maybe you should start reading posts in a more positive tone? Don't you think? Maybe then you won't find it offensive. There was nothing rude about cold blood's post.

@REEFSPIDER I'd probably edit out the swearing in your post if I were you, before the mods sees it

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## mistertim (May 11, 2016)

Mauri said:


> Reported for trolling.
> 
> Seriously I wasnt born yesterday. And dont think you are clever playing the good samaritan.
> 
> ...


Thank you! Finally, someone has called out that awful, mean spirited troll cold blood. Who the hell does he think he is, spending tons of time in this forum and patiently offering his experience and knowledge to people new to this hobby? 

I'm just glad we finally have a guy like you to give us all a hard dose of reality.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 4 | Creative 1


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## Mike B (May 11, 2016)

lalberts9310 said:


> Work your way up, gain experience. For OW aboreals, start with NW terestrials such as brachypelma, get a juvenile and raise it to adulthood, then get something like a GBB, A. geniculata, Nhandu sp. or Lasiodora sp., raise it to adulthood. Then try out an aboreal. A lot will recommend an avic for a 1st aboreal, but I like to recommend P. cambridgei, if you can manage an adult avic, then get P. cam, then try out P. Irminia or get a few Tapinauchenius sp. If you can handle and rehouse a few adult psalmos or taps, you'll have no problem dealing with a poecie.


 I do already own a GBB and a G. Pulchripes. I've had them a few months now and I'm recieving an A. Versicolor in the mail today which will be my first aboreal.

Reactions: Like 2


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## mistertim (May 11, 2016)

Mike B said:


> I do already own a GBB and a G. Pulchripes. I've had them a few months now and I'm recieving an A. Versicolor in the mail today which will be my first aboreal.


Sounds like we are around the same place on the same path. I am working my way up to Pokies as well. Currently have a B. smithi, A. versicolor, and a GBB. Will soon be getting a juvie female P. cambridgei to get used to raw speed and more defensive species before eventually moving on to OWs.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Mike B (May 11, 2016)

The first OW that I found interest in besides pokies that got me interested in the hobby was H. Lividum which will be my first OW down the road.


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## Zach T (May 11, 2016)

Wow I wish this thread would keep its intended purpose, to talk about T slings and the best thing to do for them.  Thankfully no one has attacked me directly like some did initially in this thread.  I was treated unfairly way back when on this thread and appreciate those who defend me but wish that no one, how ever experienced or new they may be, attack when it serves no purpose.
So I tried to feed again the sling, it is very possible that the crickets are too big.  I just assumed it could eat bigger crickets being a kick ass T.  I have some smaller crickets in with the bunch but getting them for the T without killing the cricket before hand.  I really don't think my T will go for pre-killed prey but who's to say.  He has been in my care for about 3.5 weeks and I would think he would be closed to molting although there is hardly any webbing per se in his enclosure.  Plus I disturbed some  when I was trying to get the cricket out a day later.  That's why I'd really like it if the sling would just eat the cricket and I wouldn't have to disturb the enclosure!

Z


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## TownesVanZandt (May 11, 2016)

Mike B said:


> The first OW that I found interest in besides pokies that got me interested in the hobby was H. Lividum which will be my first OW down the road.


Let me guess, your favorite colour is blue? If/when you do get a _H. lividum _(there are much better choices for OW terrestrials IMO), make sure to start a burrow for it in one of the sides of the enclosure, so you at least get to see it that way. I didn´t, and all I ever see of my specimen is some blue legs crawling up to the entrance of the burrow when I toss a cricket into to her enclosure. Then she jumps out, takes the cricket, and vanishes back into her burrow in a split second!



Zach T said:


> So I tried to feed again the sling, it is very possible that the crickets are too big.  I just assumed it could eat bigger crickets being a kick ass T.  I have some smaller crickets in with the bunch but getting them for the T without killing the cricket before hand.  I really don't think my T will go for pre-killed prey but who's to say.  He has been in my care for about 3.5 weeks and I would think he would be closed to molting although there is hardly any webbing per se in his enclosure.  Plus I disturbed some  when I was trying to get the cricket out a day later.  That's why I'd really like it if the sling would just eat the cricket and I wouldn't have to disturb the enclosure!


Being a "kick a** T" as you say, doesn´t really mean they will necessarily take large prey. Try to feed it a smaller cricket, but if it is in premoult, it will not eat anything before after the moult.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sarkhan42 (May 11, 2016)

Zach T said:


> Wow I wish this thread would keep its intended purpose, to talk about T slings and the best thing to do for them.  Thankfully no one has attacked me directly like some did initially in this thread.  I was treated unfairly way back when on this thread and appreciate those who defend me but wish that no one, how ever experienced or new they may be, attack when it serves no purpose.
> So I tried to feed again the sling, it is very possible that the crickets are too big.  I just assumed it could eat bigger crickets being a kick ass T.  I have some smaller crickets in with the bunch but getting them for the T without killing the cricket before hand.  I really don't think my T will go for pre-killed prey but who's to say.  He has been in my care for about 3.5 weeks and I would think he would be closed to molting although there is hardly any webbing per se in his enclosure.  Plus I disturbed some  when I was trying to get the cricket out a day later.  That's why I'd really like it if the sling would just eat the cricket and I wouldn't have to disturb the enclosure!
> 
> Z


Every T is different, but most slings do absolutely take pre killed prey, 100% of slings That I personally have kept take pre killed, including my metallica, so absolutely give it a shot, I can see live being a problem with how skittish metallica slings can be. Pre killed also makes it easy to remove, so you shouldn't have to disturb the little guy too much if he doesn't take it.

Edit: just got caught up on this thread, it's definitely possible that he's pre molt, so that could also be the source for sure but keeping food available to him doesn't hurt.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Mike B (May 11, 2016)

TownesVanZandt said:


> Let me guess, your favorite colour is blue? If/when you do get a _H. lividum _(there are much better choices for OW terrestrials IMO), make sure to start a burrow for it in one of the sides of the enclosure, so you at least get to see it that way. I didn´t, and all I ever see of my specimen is some blue legs crawling up to the entrance of the burrow when I toss a cricket into to her enclosure. Then she jumps out, takes the cricket, and vanishes back into her burrow in a split second!
> 
> 
> 
> Being a "kick a** T" as you say, doesn´t really mean they will necessarily take large prey. Try to feed it a smaller cricket, but if it is in premoult, it will not eat anything before after the moult.


Actually my favorite color isn't blue. I watched something on the discovery channel years ago that had one on it. Then years later i met a gentleman that had one in his very large T collection that her showed me and we talked about it. By no means does that make me an expert, but I'll get enough experience to have one some day

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## lalberts9310 (May 11, 2016)

Sarkhan42 said:


> Every T is different, but most slings do absolutely take pre killed prey, 100% of slings That I personally have kept take pre killed, including my metallica, so absolutely give it a shot, I can see live being a problem with how skittish metallica slings can be. Pre killed also makes it easy to remove, so you shouldn't have to disturb the little guy too much if he doesn't take it.
> 
> Edit: just got caught up on this thread, it's definitely possible that he's pre molt, so that could also be the source for sure but keeping food available to him doesn't hurt.


+1, I never had problems feeding pre-killed. Ts will scavenge. I had more success feeding pre-killed to slings than feeding live. Some slings are just very skittish and gets startled easily by live prey. Also if you suspect pre-molt, pre-killed is the best way to go, Ts in pre-molt should not be fed live, as you will not know when the T will decide to molt, and having a live feeder in with a molting T is not a good idea, as molting Ts are vulnerable and unable to defend themselves and live feeders are then very capable of injuring or even killing a molting T.

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## lalberts9310 (May 11, 2016)

Mike B said:


> I do already own a GBB and a G. Pulchripes. I've had them a few months now and I'm recieving an A. Versicolor in the mail today which will be my first aboreal.


Seems like you're going in the right direction there


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## TownesVanZandt (May 11, 2016)

Mike B said:


> Actually my favorite color isn't blue. I watched something on the discovery channel years ago that had one on it. Then years later i met a gentleman that had one in his very large T collection that her showed me and we talked about it. By no means does that make me an expert, but I'll get enough experience to have one some day


Of course you will  You seem to have a really sensible approach to this hobby!

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Toxoderidae (May 11, 2016)

@Zach T Metallicas are the most skittish of the pokies. The only reason you were bashed is because this is literally like me, a fairly novice snake keeper (having only kept native colubrids and a python) going out and buying a mangrove snake simply because I like the way it looks, regardless of the damage it could cause to me, and others, and not having any experience with snakes before. Don't try to force your sling too eat. My metallica subadult will only eat prekilled, despite her being my largest pokie, and I'm feeding her prey my regalis has been eating since she was 2''. My rufilata sling hasn't eaten since I got her, almost 3 months ago. I give her water, and drop in a dead cricket, but she only drinks. Don't force them to do things, they'll do it in their own time.


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## Mike B (May 11, 2016)

In a way this hobby has simularities to the reptile hobby with snakes. Snakes can strike in a split second and up to 2 3rds the length of their body. Kinda like a teleporting pokie.


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## Poec54 (May 11, 2016)

Toxoderidae said:


> @Zach T Metallicas are the most skittish of the pokies.


 
For me, formosa are the most high strung.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Helpful 1


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## Toxoderidae (May 11, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> For me, formosa are the most high strung.


Never kept formosa. Looking to get one soon.


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## Poec54 (May 11, 2016)

Sarkhan42 said:


> Every T is different, but most slings do absolutely take pre killed prey, 100% of slings That I personally have kept take pre killed.


 
That has not been my experience.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Sarkhan42 (May 11, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> That has not been my experience.


I've definitely heard of others having slings not take pre killed, and my collection isn't very large, I'm glad a veteran keeper could chime in


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## REEFSPIDER (May 11, 2016)

lalberts9310 said:


> Practise what you preach, eh?
> 
> Maybe you should start reading posts in a more positive tone? Don't you think? Maybe then you won't find it offensive. There was nothing rude about cold blood's post.
> 
> @REEFSPIDER I'd probably edit out the swearing in your post if I were you, before the mods sees it


Thanks..! *Edit because your not a mate


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## viper69 (May 11, 2016)

Mauri said:


> It's funny how I am being referred to as a noob


"noob" is used to described someone who is new to "something", such as a hobby, a sport etc, am I mistaken? @Mauri aren't you new to keeping tarantulas?  Everyone here was new to the hobby, or a "newbie" as some people use slang.

@cold blood is certainly no troll. I've attached a file of the top 10 people receiving positive ratings on the forum, for which CB is #2, which is pretty impressive considering he joined in Jan 2014. I point this out because anyone w/that many likes could not be a troll on this forum as they would be banned. Trolls have "better" things to do than hand out replies to help others. They would rather dish out "dislikes/disagree" and bait people for their own private mental/physical stimulation.





Zach T said:


> I just assumed it could eat bigger crickets being a kick T


This is a poor assumption Zach as you can see. I'm not sure what you meant by that subjective statement about this species. After all, you may think it's great, and someone else may think they are boring as can be. SO not sure how that figures into their predation and satiety....

Were there some behavioral or physical traits which lead you to think it would be an incredible eater?

I have a species that is an aggressive eater but only with smaller crix. Larger crix that it could easily over power scare it. I've seen this with 2 members of this species. All of this despite me thinking the same as you regarding the species you own currently.

You could try scavenge feeding if you want. I've only owned 1 species from this genus, and I didn't need to do this, so my experience is limited w/this genus.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1


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## Toxoderidae (May 11, 2016)

I'm a newb in many regards, having started keeping about 7 months ago. And as I've said, metallicas are easily spooked, especially by prey. Treat it like you'd treat an avic. Give it food much smaller than your average spider of that size, and give it a lot.


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## Squidsalad (May 11, 2016)

I feed my tarantulas once a week. Even the little dudes. I use their abdomen as an indicator of their health and status. I feel like feeding them twice a week is too much. I believe for a one inch spider, two one or two week crickets will probably do. I sometimes misjudge and overfeed. Then I usually skip a feeding.  If they're not hungry, I crush the heads of the crickets and recheck a day later.  I've been in the hobby since July of last year and I've got about 20 ts, a few hots. 

The one pokie I've got still makes me nervous, but if you do everything carefully,and respectfully, you should be fine.   

Always locate your spider before heading into the enclosure.  Usually my pokie rufilata  will hide from me. It's got so much web I just knock in a few 2 week crickets and close the container. I just use my tongs to remove uneaten crickets, carefully. 



Be very careful, Z! My first T was a .25 curly hair sling, then a 1.5 inch brocklehursti, then a GBB sling. . I didn't get an advanced T until I was 4 spiders in. Ive got 4 Obts, a Heteroscodra maculata, and a Poecilotheria rufilata. 

My advice is to watch countless rehousing T videos, even terrible ones that went wrong,  so you see how people react and how the spiders react. 


Have fun with your baby!


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## viper69 (May 11, 2016)

Squidsalad said:


> I feed my tarantulas once a week. Even the little dudes. I use their abdomen as an indicator of their health and status. I feel like feeding them twice a week is too much. I believe for a one inch spider, two one or two week crickets will probably do. I sometimes misjudge and overfeed. Then I usually skip a feeding.  If they're not hungry, I crush the heads of the crickets and recheck a day later.  I've been in the hobby since July of last year and I've got about 20 ts, a few hots.
> 
> The one pokie I've got still makes me nervous, but if you do everything carefully,and respectfully, you should be fine.
> 
> ...


I own E. sp Red. and other terrestrials. Your ExoTerra is unsuited for terrestrials in its current set up. There's not enough sub in that ExoTerra to prevent your cherished pet from an injury or a fall leading to death.

Simple Conversion>> http://arachnoboards.com/threads/ex...rom-arboreal-to-terrestrial-pic-heavy.259864/

You typically want the height from sub surface to lid to be 1.5x the Ts DLS for terrestrials.

Nice to see another person appreciate P rufilata!

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Chris LXXIX (May 11, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> For me, formosa are the most high strung.


Not _P.ornata_?


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## Pociemon (May 11, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> Not _P.ornata_?


P ornata is high strung, but it just has a tendency to go into threat posture quickly. I have many formosa and they will dart around if disturbed...But i guess it has to do with what you consider high strung!

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Pociemon (May 11, 2016)

viper69 said:


> I own E. sp Red. and other terrestrials. Your ExoTerra is unsuited for terrestrials in its current set up. There's not enough sub in that ExoTerra to prevent your cherished pet from an injury or a fall leading to death.
> 
> Simple Conversion>> http://arachnoboards.com/threads/ex...rom-arboreal-to-terrestrial-pic-heavy.259864/
> 
> ...


Who would not appreciate p rufilata!   It would be a sin not to.....

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Chris LXXIX (May 11, 2016)

Pociemon said:


> P ornata is high strung, but it just has a tendency to go into threat posture quickly. I have many formosa and they are dart around if disturbed...But i guess it has to do with what you consider high strung!


I don't consider genus _Poecilotheria _particularly high strung, that's why. I don't like those, they are class A only at aesthetics IMO. I prefer _H.maculata_, _S.calceatum_, or real Asian arboreals like _L.nigerrimum_.


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## Pociemon (May 11, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> I don't consider genus _Poecilotheria _particularly high strung, that's why. I don't like those, they are class A only at aesthetics IMO. I prefer _H.maculata_, _S.calceatum_, or real Asian arboreals like _L.nigerrimum_.


So you dont consider poecilotheria real asian arboreals, can you elaborate a little bit on that?

Besides that, i am not disagreeing on this, there are alot more highstrung arboreals out there, and you have mentioned some..


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## Chris LXXIX (May 11, 2016)

Pociemon said:


> So you dont consider poecilotheria real asian arboreals, can you elaborate a little bit on that?
> 
> Besides that, i am not disagreeing on this, there are alot more highstrung arboreals out there, and you have mentioned some..


"Real" saying for the attitude. A manly attitude (in general) VS a "shy, run & hide" attitude (again, in general, depends specimen by specimen of course) like 'Pokies' are.

I re-housed some 'Pokies' (not mines, friend ones) and that was a very easy task. When you re-house arboreal 'Baboons' or certain Asian arboreals like the one i mentioned it's a bit, IMO, worst.

Certain _Psalmopoeus_, on their bad day, put 'Pokies' to embarassing. That's my opinion.

Bottom line for me: save for striking colours and potent venom 'Pokies' are a nothing, for me. I like attitude spiders, not shy scary ones.


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## Pociemon (May 11, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> not shy scary ones.


And that is one reason poecs are tricky, people can get too comfortable around them, and that could lead to problems...

I have kept many african T´s eventually, but i dont have them anymore, i almost have to pay people money here to take the offspring;-(

I only have some true africans spiders now.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Chris LXXIX (May 11, 2016)

Pociemon said:


> And that is one reason poecs are tricky, people can get too comfortable around them, and that could lead to problems...


Yes, but that statement, as you know, suits not only the OW's T's (masters to let keepers fall into a false sense of security) but all T's.

Including the supposed "docile" (muahahah, doesn't exist "docile" _Theraphosidae_, period. They are wild, untamed animals) ones. I have a 'Chaco', 0.1, rescued from a weed/drug addicted punk, that (probably due to that drug previous environment, lol) is high strung, more than my Baboons if that's possible. But _G.pulchripe_s, aren't of course high strung T's, now.
Single specimen temperament enters. 'Pokies', on that, in general, are "run & hide" T's IMO. _P.muticus_, hiss and fight. So forth.

If you are always 101% careful, nothing bad will happens of course. But i like "challenge".


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## Pociemon (May 11, 2016)

A challenge you say!  

I have packed and shipped pretty much all they crazy T´s mentioned in here, and i dont see the bite risk is increased if you have a T who you know will "fight" or a T that are "run and hide". You are typically more alert with the crazy one, wich means you can get overly confident with the "shy" ones. The risk is allways there, especcially if you breed them and deal with many T´s on a daily basis. I have made my share of blunders, and also handled pretty much all of them years ago, but i am lucky not to have been tagged by other than a Avicularia versicolor.... 
But if people have the experience i think they should keep the T´s that interest them the most, otherwise you can not withhold your passion for the hobby.


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## Chris LXXIX (May 11, 2016)

Pociemon said:


> A challenge you say!
> 
> I have packed and shipped pretty much all they crazy T´s mentioned in here, and i dont see the bite risk is increased if you have a T who you know will "fight" or a T that are "run and hide". You are typically more alert with the crazy one, wich means you can get overly confident with the "shy" ones. The risk is allways there, especcially if you breed them and deal with many T´s on a daily basis. I have made my share of blunders, and also handled pretty much all of them years ago, but i am lucky not to have been tagged by other than a Avicularia versicolor....
> But if people have the experience i think they should keep the T´s that interest them the most, otherwise you can not withhold your passion for the hobby.


Man, i don't disagree with you or with what you said now. You are right. I was talking about "working" (feeding, cleaning, watering... normal routine) with T's, those T's, when/once they are fully settled in their enclosures.

As i've said, starting to a (the minimum) always focused, 100% attention level, 'Pokies' aren't that "bad" to work with, definitely not like the average comments depict those... while certain arboreals, are (again IMO) more high strung.

With that said, i have yet to see a _Poecilotheria _throwing a hissing tantrum like a crazy choosy children, like a 0.1 _P.muticus_ out of her burrow


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## Pociemon (May 11, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> With that said, i have yet to see a _Poecilotheria _throwing a hissing tantrum like a crazy choosy children, like a 0.1 _P.muticus_ out of her burrow


I would like to be there to witness it the day that should happen here;-)

Reactions: Like 1


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## Chris LXXIX (May 11, 2016)

Pociemon said:


> I would like to be there to witness it the day that should happen here;-)


The *Goddess *of T's, 0.1 _P.muticus_, IMO is the ultimate defensive _Theraphosidae_. No one is like her. They would bite the face of a Bulldog without issues. Hissing. I love 0.1 giant _P.muticus_, scavenge those from their burrow unleash that pure, pre-wheel invention time, African rage

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Poec54 (May 11, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> Not _P.ornata_?


 
Not mine, which are the dark blue form.  They're no different than regalis or fasciata as far as defensiveness.  Ornata's temper is with other spiders, not people, as Ornata's the most cannibalistic Poec by far.  They can start killing each other at 2nd instar.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Poec54 (May 11, 2016)

Pociemon said:


> So you dont consider poecilotheria real asian arboreals, can you elaborate a little bit on that?
> 
> Besides that, i am not disagreeing on this, there are alot more highstrung arboreals out there, and you have mentioned some..


 
Poecilotheria ARE real Asian arboreals, it's the biggest genus of arboreals besides Avicularia. 

All of the other Asian/African arboreal genera I've had are definitely more unpredictable and high strung.  As subadults/adults, Poecs seem to rely on their cryptic markings and colors, and usually prefer to remain motionless, rather than panic and run.  That's also why Poecs prefer not to stand up and give warnings unless provoked (overreacting can get them killed, when a predator may not have otherwise seen them).  But make no mistake, their bite doesn't require a warning, just like a cobra doesn't have to hood to bite.  What's most impressive with Poecs and cobras, isn't their warnings, but that they can make intruders sorry they ever got close.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 4


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## cold blood (May 11, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> i have yet to see a _Poecilotheria _throwing a hissing tantrum like a crazy choosy children, like a 0.1 _P.muticus_ out of her burrow


No, a pokie won't "warn" you first.    I think the ones that get ornery right off the bat are the easier ones sometimes, its those ones that always seem calm and still for so many times you think it will always be that way, then one day, bam...oops...a warning would have been nice.

P. muticus is pretty darn awesome though.



Poec54 said:


> Not mine, which are the dark blue form.  They're no different than regalis or fasciata as far as defensiveness.  Ornata's temper is with other spiders, not people, as Ornata's the most cannibalistic Poec by far.  They can start killing each other at 2nd instar.


My ornata's not any more high strung than any others I have either I don't have formosa, either).      The most irritating one I have is the vitatta....she always goes toward the opening at some point.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 2


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## Pociemon (May 11, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> Poecilotheria ARE real Asian arboreals, it's the biggest genus of arboreals besides Avicularia.
> 
> All of the other Asian/African arboreal genera I've had are definitely more unpredictable and high strung.  As subadults/adults, Poecs seem to rely on their cryptic markings and colors, and usually prefer to remain motionless, rather than panic and run.  That's also why Poecs prefer not to stand up and give warnings unless provoked (overreacting can get them killed, when a predator may not have otherwise seen them).  But make no mistake, their bite doesn't require a warning, just like a cobra doesn't have to hood to bite.  What's most impressive with Poecs and cobras, isn't their warnings, but that they can make intruders sorry they ever got close.





Poec54 said:


> Poecilotheria ARE real Asian arboreals, it's the biggest genus of arboreals besides Avicularia.
> 
> All of the other Asian/African arboreal genera I've had are definitely more unpredictable and high strung.  As subadults/adults, Poecs seem to rely on their cryptic markings and colors, and usually prefer to remain motionless, rather than panic and run.  That's also why Poecs prefer not to stand up and give warnings unless provoked (overreacting can get them killed, when a predator may not have otherwise seen them).  But make no mistake, their bite doesn't require a warning, just like a cobra doesn't have to hood to bite.  What's most impressive with Poecs and cobras, isn't their warnings, but that they can make intruders sorry they ever got close.


Only difference here is the danger of a bite and also how good a cobra looks when they hood. I have the luxury to work with kingcobras once in a while when i visit my wifes country...Great snakes. I plan to visit "poecilotheria land" in the future aswell. Only haplopelma and some true spiders so far i have found in nature so far. oh, and moved 2 kings from the rice field

Reactions: Like 2


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## Venom1080 (May 11, 2016)

Squidsalad said:


> I feed my tarantulas once a week. Even the little dudes. I use their abdomen as an indicator of their health and status. I feel like feeding them twice a week is too much. I believe for a one inch spider, two one or two week crickets will probably do. I sometimes misjudge and overfeed. Then I usually skip a feeding.  If they're not hungry, I crush the heads of the crickets and recheck a day later.  I've been in the hobby since July of last year and I've got about 20 ts, a few hots.
> 
> 
> 
> Be very careful, Z! My first T was a .25 curly hair sling, then a 1.5 inch brocklehursti, then a GBB sling. . I didn't get an advanced T until I was 4 spiders in. Ive got 4 Obts, a Heteroscodra maculata, and a Poecilotheria rufilata.


once a week is fine, even a little too much for adult terrestrials. slings can be fed as much as you want. you cant overfeed a sling, they put all that weight into molting, adults dont as much so they shouldnt be fed as much. with your experience i woudlnt recommend a OW for another year, 4 spiders in means nothing if you bought them all within a few months of each other. good luck and cool collection.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Venom1080 (May 11, 2016)

Zach T said:


> Wow I wish this thread would keep its intended purpose, to talk about T slings and the best thing to do for them.  Thankfully no one has attacked me directly like some did initially in this thread.  I was treated unfairly way back when on this thread and appreciate those who defend me but wish that no one, how ever experienced or new they may be, attack when it serves no purpose.
> So I tried to feed again the sling, it is very possible that the crickets are too big.  I just assumed it could eat bigger crickets being a kick ass T.  I have some smaller crickets in with the bunch but getting them for the T without killing the cricket before hand.  I really don't think my T will go for pre-killed prey but who's to say.  He has been in my care for about 3.5 weeks and I would think he would be closed to molting although there is hardly any webbing per se in his enclosure.  Plus I disturbed some  when I was trying to get the cricket out a day later.  That's why I'd really like it if the sling would just eat the cricket and I wouldn't have to disturb the enclosure!
> 
> Z


this is about p metallica sling care, thats been answered and now people are just talking and debating like people often do. i think everyone was pretty nice in their responses except one person. no one really attacked you tbh. pre killed criks are fine. it doesnt matter if its a defensive/ highly venomous species, it cant overpower giant criks. you have to disturb the cage once in a while, spot cleaning, feeding, water dish refilling, it happens, dont worry. i would ask again for a pic to be uploaded of your set up however.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Chris LXXIX (May 11, 2016)

cold blood said:


> No, a pokie won't "warn" you first.


Sorry. I was talking about that "fight club" gladiator style attitude. The hissing of a 0.1 _P.muticus_ (again, i use always the 'Ladies', since those big girls are more defensive in general than 1.0 or, obviously, slings) isn't always a warning advice. Had seen mine deliver two/three bites in less than 5 seconds after not even 1 second that hiss.

_Poecilotheria _attacks like ninjas using their teleport speed. But still they don't love to stand and put a duel unlike those African monsters (again, in general... everything can happen at the end).

The only reason why nothing bad happened mostly with those African beasts probably is because those are keeped in "final" enclosures, under lots of dirt. It's only when "you" have (for a sell, a trade etc) to take those girls out of their burrow that you can notice that, their incredible no fear at all, defensive reaction.
This, and the facts that, unlike 'OBT's', those girls aren't cheap nor easy to breed, plus hardcore pet holes (not everyone loves those).

Just me, absolutely loving more 15 minutes threat display T's ah ah than others. Nothing when it comes to T's is like a pissed off rusty-terracotta beast IMO

Reactions: Love 2


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## viper69 (May 12, 2016)

Pociemon said:


> Who would not appreciate p rufilata!   It would be a sin not to.....


For some reason they are not that common here in the USA compared to other Poki's. I've always thought their colors were prettiest after P. metallica.


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## Toxoderidae (May 12, 2016)

I love my rufilata. If she'd grow. a 1 inch sling who won't eat and won't molt - after 3 months. I want a giant 8 to 9 inch rufliata. Not one who I'm worried is going to die from not eating! My other regalis suffers the same problem. In the time it took her to molt once, her sister molted twice.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## louise f (May 12, 2016)

cold blood said:


> The most irritating one I have is the vitatta....she always goes toward the opening at some point.


Haha.. Sounds just like my 2 vittata girls. They are crazy

Reactions: Funny 1 | Lollipop 1


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## Felidae (May 12, 2016)

From all of my Asian aboreals, my pokies are the most layed back ones. I don't own the real terminators, like ornata, but got 6 P. metallica, 2 P. regalis, 3 P. miranda and 3 P. sp "Lowland" (or Bara or subfusca lowland, how we call them nowadays). Most of the times, the big ones run and hide, the small ones running laps in photon speed in case of disturbance. 

The main problem with them, that sometimes they change their minds. Maybe you get used to their habits in six months, and one day suddenly they're defensive or feeding aggressive. You get threat pose instead of running, and jumping out to your clamps or your body instead of hiding. The next day they'll use the run & hide method again.
You're more careful with a violaceopes or nigerrimum, cause they almost always high strung. That's dangerous with pokies, cause you believe you know them, but one day when you'll really know them maybe will too late.
I believe that some keepers never ready for OW aboreals and some are ok with them from the beginning. Lots of factors playing role in this.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 3


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## Pociemon (May 12, 2016)

cant delete it....................


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## Pociemon (May 12, 2016)

viper69 said:


> For some reason they are not that common here in the USA compared to other Poki's. I've always thought their colors were prettiest after P. metallica.


They are less common overhere aswell. Before they were easy to get, now they are difficult to get. I got a sac from my big female last year, but the day i checked up on here, she was laying the sac...Needless to say she ate it. Since then i have had to buy 5 slings and now i feed them up, hopefully they will turn out 2.3. They are in 4. molt now. I have 1 big female only. I was also lucky i got those 5, only because i knew sellar. If things works out and i will get offspring on them i can ship some to you guys. It is just that many times americans try to buy my offspring they give me ridicouless offers wich i turn down, so we will see....

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Poec54 (May 12, 2016)

Felidae said:


> The main problem with them, that sometimes they change their minds. Maybe you get used to their habits in six months, and one day suddenly they're defensive or feeding aggressive. You get threat pose instead of running, and jumping out to your clamps or your body instead of hiding. The next day they'll use the run & hide method again.
> You're more careful with a violaceopes or nigerrimum, cause they almost always high strung. That's dangerous with pokies, cause you believe you know them, but one day when you'll really know them maybe will too late.
> I believe that some keepers never ready for OW aboreals and some are ok with them from the beginning. Lots of factors playing role in this.



Well said.  When you get complacent with fast/defensive species, you get escapes or bites.  To them, we're never a caretaker, we're always an intruder and up to no good.  That's how they're managed to survive in the wild for thousands of years.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Mauri (May 12, 2016)

Felidae said:


> From all of my Asian aboreals, my pokies are the most layed back ones. I don't own the real terminators, like ornata, but got 6 P. metallica, 2 P. regalis, 3 P. miranda and 3 P. sp "Lowland" (or Bara or subfusca lowland, how we call them nowadays). Most of the times, the big ones run and hide, the small ones running laps in photon speed in case of disturbance.
> 
> The main problem with them, that sometimes they change their minds. Maybe you get used to their habits in six months, and one day suddenly they're defensive or feeding aggressive. You get threat pose instead of running, and jumping out to your clamps or your body instead of hiding. The next day they'll use the run & hide method again.
> You're more careful with a violaceopes or nigerrimum, cause they almost always high strung. That's dangerous with pokies, cause you believe you know them, but one day when you'll really know them maybe will too late.
> I believe that some keepers never ready for OW aboreals and some are ok with them from the beginning. Lots of factors playing role in this.


Yep good points. Am a relative newcomer. (1 month in) and I dont see any issue in getting some poeci slings or even a juvenile. Am undecided at the moment, discussing it with a friend on youtube (he has ten poecis and says be carefull).

As I have a lovely acrylic enclosure something like a P.Metallica will do it justice...actually the only issue is cost at the moment. A young female p.metallica is def more expensive here in the Uk than a versi etc.

Reactions: Disagree 3


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## mistertim (May 12, 2016)

Yeah I can sorta see that as a big danger of Pokies as well. They seem to (generally) be relatively calm and would rather freeze or run than fight, but they're still wild animals and hence inherently unpredictable. At least with something like an OBT you know exactly what you're gonna get almost every time...it may be super defensive and ready to bite but you're always going to know that and be ready for it.


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## Mauri (May 12, 2016)

mistertim said:


> Yeah I can sorta see that as a big danger of Pokies as well. They seem to (generally) be relatively calm and would rather freeze or run than fight, but they're still wild animals and hence inherently unpredictable. At least with something like an OBT you know exactly what you're gonna get almost every time...it may be super defensive and ready to bite but you're always going to know that and be ready for it.


That def on my list! Not long to wait before it's sling time

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Poec54 (May 12, 2016)

Mauri said:


> Yep good points. Am a relative newcomer. (1 month in) and I dont see any issue in getting some poeci slings or even a juvenile. Am undecided at the moment, discussing it with a friend on youtube (he has ten poecis and says be carefull).


 
Well, with a full month into the hobby under your belt, you certainly have a foundation of insight and experience to share with the forum. 

I'd have to say your friend's advice of:_ 'Be careful'_ with Poecs, is some of the best I've read on this forum.  Brief and to the point.  Why clog it up with details?  What else would you possibly need to know about working with them?  Kind of like a guy's first day on the job with the bomb squad: skip the training, give him a bag full of tools, point across a field and say "_Now go defuse that bomb...*and be careful*!_"

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Funny 4


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## Toxoderidae (May 12, 2016)

@Pociemon and @viper69 JR has some 1 or 2 inch rufilata for sale for about 30 dollars. That's where I got mine

Reactions: Like 1


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## Pociemon (May 12, 2016)

Toxoderidae said:


> @Pociemon and @viper69 JR has some 1 or 2 inch rufilata for sale for about 30 dollars. That's where I got mine


I have them, but who is jr?


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## Toxoderidae (May 12, 2016)

Pociemon said:


> I have them, but who is jr?


JRsinverts.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Mauri (May 12, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> Well, with a full month into the hobby under your belt, you certainly have a foundation of insight and experience to share with the forum.
> 
> I'd have to say your friend's advice of:_ 'Be careful'_ with Poecs, is some of the best I've read on this forum.  Brief and to the point.  Why clog it up with details?  What else would you possibly need to know about working with them?  Kind of like a guy's first day on the job with the bomb squad: skip the training, give him a bag full of tools, point across a field and say "_Now go defuse that bomb...*and be careful*!_"


Actually I do! And stop trying to bully me. I told you before it might work with some, as you have done before on this forum, but it wont work with me. Your opinion means nothing to me.

And poor analogy! Owning a poeci and working with bombs? Errr no. Oh and I havent chosen whether to get one or not, thats none of your business and certainly doesnt deter me. In fact far from it, I might do it just to prove how wrong you are. (I mean seriously what a lame and useless analogy, really try and do better than that. Utilise one grey cells more).

You seem to love judging peoples experience levels dont you and giving them stick? Wonder why that is.

And cue all the "oh you are so rude" type comments from your henchmen.

Let me refresh your memory. I wasnt rude to anyone here on this forum who wasnt rude to me first.

You started this not me. Perhaps you think you can get away with it? Well sorry pal I got news for you, people dont like being trolled or others insuinating they are "noobs""have no clue""ruining the hobby""idiotic". (I leave anything out?).

Fact is am going to do what I want and when I want in this hobby am bright enough and confident to deal with any situation and none of your trash talking or downvoting will ever change that. (only thing you will do is force me to make it known to others what your agenda is).

p.s and for your info my friend has 20yrs plus experience and didnt tell me "NO" but he did say you must be rdy for one. So quit with the crap about beginners not being able to have one. (they can and they will).

It isnt some club you alone are privy 2. And I know you are going to reply with something like

"dont say we didnt warn you!" What a nice attitude to have? I am in this to have fun and excitement, if things get a little scary and I dont understand something well that's part of the enjoyment.

I take the tarantulas wellfare very very seriously so I get very very very irritated when people trash talk my efforts.

I would say in the first month have learnt loads! So far i'd give myself an 8/10

Reactions: Dislike 3 | Disagree 3 | Funny 2


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## lalberts9310 (May 12, 2016)

@Mauri wow your friend has 20 years of experience? How super 

Rick (@Poec54) has over 30 years experience Dealing mainly with OWs.  (did I mention he had a cobra collection before that too?)

The reason why beginners are discouraged to get OW early on is because they have no idea how fast, unpredictable and overwhelming these animals are. Mistakes easily happen and we have seen it hundreds of times. Beginners to afraid to rehouse their OBT because of it's attitude, escapes, housepets getting bitten, the tarantula is overwhelming and gets put up for sale, the tarantula dying because of owner ignorance, incorrect husbandry, or the T bolted up the owners arm and got flung against a wall etc. You get my point. We don't discourage it just for the fun, or to be rude.

I don't get why you feel so offensive to be called a noob? It's because that is what you are, that is what we all were when we started out in the hobby. There is absolutely no need to take offence to being called a noob, or a newbie.

But like Rick said, you are far from the 1st newb to come here, thinking that you know all there is to know about this hobby and argue with and insult veteran keepers. And all those before you didn't last long on these forums...

I absolutely love it when a newb comes here, receives expert advice and takes it with an open heart and shows gratitude for it, no matter if the advice given is totally the opposite as what has been expected. But I can't stand newcomers flinging poop at long-time keepers for giving correct, honest, straight-forward advice. And usually it's those newbs that always expect that what they do is absolutely correct. They can't stand it when someone tells them what they are doing is wrong, or when they receive advice and it isn't what they expected or wanted to hear. Because you know.. those newbs they just know everything from the get-go.

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 6 | Clarification Please 1


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## Mauri (May 12, 2016)

lalberts9310 said:


> @Mauri wow your friend has 20 years of experience? How super
> 
> Rick (@Poec54) has over 30 years experience Dealing mainly with OWs.  (did I mention he had a cobra collection before that too?)
> 
> ...


Haha the thing is I wasnt given any advice. It wasnt about that.

So how can I be the one who is being rude?

I never objected to being given advice but being referred to as an idiot or giving bad advice where the person doesnt actually state what it is I have said or done thats wrong.

Do you understand where am coming from? Am completely prepared to take advice from poec or anyone but if they refer to me as an idiot without actually explaining themselves do you see what this comes across as?

It just appears to me as trolling.

If I knew what it is I had to be sorry for or even apologise for I would! But that's just the problem I have been insulted and I cant see there is any reason for it.

I cant see what bad advice or anything in my posts that suggests I dont know what am doing.

p.s and I think it's more than 20 years. Who's counting? Or you just want to be petty?

Oh wait it's perhaps actually I might disagree with that they are saying? Is that why you so defensive?

Reactions: Dislike 3 | Funny 1


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## grimmjowls (May 12, 2016)

Mauri said:


> You seem to love judging peoples experience levels dont you and giving them stick? Wonder why that is. I think it's some kind of mental issue you have. Seek help.


I wish the ignorant didn't target mentally ill people all the time and turn them into an insult ...

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Mauri (May 12, 2016)

grimmjowls said:


> I wish the ignorant didn't target mentally ill people all the time and turn them into an insult ...


I deleted this! So no need to repost it.

And I am far from ignorant thanks.

Reactions: Dislike 4


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## lalberts9310 (May 12, 2016)

@Mauri could you please quote where Poec54 or cold blood called you an idiot? As those are the members you fling your poop at. And no i don't get where you're comming from really you just sound like another know-it-all ignorant and obnoxious newcommer to me, as i don't see anywhere where Poec54 or cold blood called you an idiot.  And what clarification do you need on my post? I don't think i could have made my opinion more clear.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## mistertim (May 12, 2016)

Mauri said:


> Haha the thing is I wasnt given any advice. It wasnt about that.
> 
> So how can I be the one who is being rude?
> 
> ...


Can you point to anyone who was calling you derogatory names? Nobody did and nobody will. And "noob" or "newbie" is not a derogatory name...it just means new to the hobby. I'm still somewhat a newb, even after many months, and I'm fine with that. I don't get my feathers ruffled over it or my ego bruised; it isn't that fragile. And come on, stop referring to anyone who disagrees with you as a troll; you've now accused two of the most prolific, experienced, and well rated posters in this forum of being "trolls". The common denominator in all of these "negative" interactions with other members is you, not them. Others here don't have the same problems with cold blood or Poec54.

Reactions: Agree 5 | Award 1


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## Mauri (May 12, 2016)

mistertim said:


> Can you point to anyone who was calling you derogatory names? Nobody did and nobody will. And "noob" or "newbie" is not a derogatory name...it just means new to the hobby. I'm still somewhat a newb, even after many months, and I'm fine with that. I don't get my feathers ruffled over it or my ego bruised; it isn't that fragile. And come on, stop referring to anyone who disagrees with you as a troll; you've now accused two of the most prolific, experienced, and well rated posters in this forum as "trolls" now. The common denominator in all of these "negative" interactions with other members is you, not them. Others here don't have the same problems with cold blood or Poec54.


Well first off was called an idiot by a member here and then referred to as "ruining the hobby". Oh and poor husbandry etc and that my current raising of t's has been down to chance rather than skill.

That's just today!

And it's beneath me to start name calling. That's very juvenile.

Then another member has since told another member to "ignore" my advice and then since I questioned one experienced member have since been "ganged" up on.

So the common denominator is experienced users trying to "bully" a new member because he dares disagree. The thing is they havent actually said it is what it is I have said that's so wrong to be referred to in such an insulting way.

Yes I do think it's insulting to have people insuinate that my husbandry is poor. How would you feel is this was your first t's?

Just because they are experienced doesnt give them the power to "belittle" new members. You might say it's they are being "harsh". Well I am perfectly entitled to take offense by their remarks.

They can give advice without the personal references. And saying someone is "idiotic" for wanting a poeci as a first T is insulting.

I dont mind advice nor criticism but I will not be made to feel bad or low about my hobby because someone doesnt like my opinions.

I cant actually believe we are having this discussion. There is no need for anyone on here to fight with anyone, we all want the same thing.

I just dont get the rudeness. It's uncalled for. Attack the post and not the poster.

If you want proof just look at how the OP was treated right at the start of this thread. Case closed.

p.s look at lalberts post. Calling me an "ignorant newcomer". Just the type of response I am talking about...

Where is his proof am ignorant...?

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## lalberts9310 (May 12, 2016)

@Mauri could you please quote the post where whoever called you an idiot? Because maybe I'm blind or you're reading a ghosts posts as I don't see anything

And if you give bad or wrong advice you are going to get called out for it.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Poec54 (May 12, 2016)

Mauri said:


> I would say in the first month have learnt loads! So far i'd give myself an 8/10


 
Just think what you can learn in decades, like some of us have.

Beginners_ in any field_ learn a lot more by listening, watching, and reading, rather than talking a lot and arguing.

As far you 'rating' yourself: It would be far more accurate and meaningful if forum members voted on that instead.  People see you differently than you see yourself, and they aren't always wrong.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 5


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## Poec54 (May 12, 2016)

lalberts9310 said:


> And if you give bad or wrong advice you are going to be called out for it.


 

That's pretty much how forums work.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Venom1080 (May 12, 2016)

lalberts9310 said:


> @Mauri you just sound like another know-it-all ignorant and obnoxious newcommer to me,


THIS^^^ my opinion of Mauri

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## Mauri (May 12, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> That's pretty much how forums work.


If so then quote my bad advice. Fact is you cant, look carry on with your pathetic attempts you will just dig yourself a bigger hole.

If not please shut up.

Here we go again. The same trolls chiming in.

Reactions: Dislike 3


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## lalberts9310 (May 12, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> Just think what you can learn in decades, like some of us have.
> 
> Beginners_ in any field_ learn a lot more by listening, watching, and reading, rather than talking a lot and arguing.
> 
> As far you 'rating' yourself: It would be far more accurate and meaningful if forum members voted on that instead.  People see you differently than you see yourself, and they aren't always wrong.


I would like to see him learn anything with all the members he's adding to his ignore list.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## lalberts9310 (May 12, 2016)

Mauri said:


> If so then quote my bad advice. Fact is you cant, look carry on with your pathetic attempts you will just dig yourself a bigger hole.
> 
> If not please shut up.
> 
> Here we go again. The same trolls chiming in.


Then please quote where Poec54 or cold blood called you an idiot.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Mauri (May 12, 2016)

Really you lot are boring. At least be original in your trolling.

Anyways OP sorry to disrupt again but it's the same person/people who troll me and then expect to get away with it.

Scroll back a few pages I made a harmless comment then poec takes the piss. (hopefully people with some common sense realise what's going on here and arent swayed by so called "experienced" members).

Not cool and it's also very disruptive.

Seems to me more putting of people down that actual advice giving by some!

Reactions: Disagree 2


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## lalberts9310 (May 12, 2016)

@Mauri I may be 22 years old, but I think I act way more mature than you do. Maybe look back on your posts and see who the one is that is acting like a child.​


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## lalberts9310 (May 12, 2016)

Mauri said:


> Really you lot are boring. At least be original in your trolling.


Yes, you see, you can't even quote where Rick or Dennis called you an idiot, because you know you are wrong.  Instead you make everyone out as trolls.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Chris LXXIX (May 12, 2016)

@Mauri

Can i ask you, Sir, by chance, how many users so far are in your "blocking list" ? Just out of curiousity, thank you

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 4


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## lalberts9310 (May 12, 2016)

Mauri said:


> p.s look at lalberts post. Calling me an "ignorant newcomer". Just the type of response I am talking about...


Well they say the truth hurts.  "Ignorant" and "obnoxious" is written all over your posts.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mauri (May 12, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> @Mauri
> 
> Can i ask you, Sir, by chance, how many users so far are in your "blocking list" ? Just out of curiousity, thank you


What a pointless question.

How long is a piece of string? What's the average intellect of most human beings? How many trolls you think live on any forums....?

Reactions: Dislike 2


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## grimmjowls (May 12, 2016)

Mauri said:


> I deleted this! So no need to repost it.
> 
> And I am far from ignorant thanks.


Editing your post after you've been called out on an offensive statement doesn't make it okay, but whatever. You've got a lot more problems on your hands with how you're talking to everyone else.

Reactions: Agree 7


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## cold blood (May 12, 2016)

Mauri said:


> And it's beneath me to start name calling. That's very juvenile.
> 
> 
> 
> I just dont get the rudeness. It's uncalled for. Attack the post and not the poster.



This is what is referred to as hypocritical.

You messaged several users here with name calling, so its clearly not beneath you, in fact, it clearly *is* you.

You *chose* to ignore the forums and attack people in private messages, thereby attacking the poster and *not* the post.



I've never had such a rude, hate filled, name calling message in my years at AB, and the name calling and hate wasn't directed at just me, but at several members.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 4


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## Poec54 (May 12, 2016)

Mauri said:


> carry on with your pathetic attempts you will just dig yourself a bigger hole.
> 
> If not please shut up.


 
I can see your point about the rest of us being rude.  Guilty as charged.  We should all try to achieve the level of civility and maturity that you've demonstrated. 

Who was it that the moderators had to clean up his posts this week for continually swearing and threatening members?  Who was that...

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## lalberts9310 (May 12, 2016)

@cold blood yes like how he sent me a PM and called me a child, lol how ironic.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mauri (May 12, 2016)

grimmjowls said:


> Editing your post after you've been called out on an offensive statement doesn't make it okay, but whatever. You've got a lot more problems on your hands with how you're talking to everyone else.


Actually I deleted it beforehand. Beat you to it am afraid so nice try.

And fyi it's how they are treating me that's the problem and is for new members I have seen.

This wont go unmentioned. There are means at my disposal.

I'll start with a thousand flyers to distribute at the BTS coming up with some names from this forum perhaps...

It will then be my word against others. But luckily have quite a good reputable background and we are known for our honesty.

Could be a long nasty fight but who you think will win? The person telling the truth or the trolls?

You think people will think I go to the effort just to create an elaborate troll or actually that I have been badly treated? In this current day and age and internet trolling who is the most believable?

Someone new to the hobby or people who hang around thinking they know best?

oh have already got the name of the local pet shop owner. So it's coincidence I went to his shop for the first time, mentioned tarantula forums and he warned me about them. He said he got so pissed off with certain members he almost smashed a keyboard.

Guess which place was top of his list? It's a small world they say.

Or and so far I met 2 very experienced youtubers who dont have many nice things to say.

I might involve them.

I will be waiting three hours before the BTS so at least now I have something to do whilst in the queue. I will also go out of my way to be most presentable and be at my most charming/eloquent.

Certainly the name poec will get a nice mention from yours truly.

Reactions: Dislike 2 | Funny 4


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## lalberts9310 (May 12, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> I can see your point about the rest of us being rude.  Guilty as charged.  We should all try to achieve the level of civility and maturity that you've demonstrated.
> 
> Who was it that the moderators had to clean up his posts this week for continually swearing and threatening members?  Who was that...


+1 well said there Rick.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Poec54 (May 12, 2016)

I'm not clear on how this works.  If after a month in a hobby someone's no longer a 'beginner' or 'noob', to who do those terms apply?  To people that have had a spider for several hours?

Reactions: Like 3 | Funny 1


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## lalberts9310 (May 12, 2016)

Mauri said:


> Actually I deleted it beforehand. Beat you to it am afraid so nice try.


Well he quoted you before you had the chance to delete it, so now in his post everyone is able to see the part of your post you removed

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 3


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## grimmjowls (May 12, 2016)

Mauri said:


> Actually I deleted it beforehand. Beat you to it am afraid so nice try.
> 
> And fyi it's how they are treating me that's the problem and is for new members I have seen.
> 
> ...


... what. 
Okay. 

Honestly, how do you function in the real world? Do you bristle at every opinion stated that differs from your own? Do you vehemently hate anyone who is different from you? 

Sorry, but I'm having a hard time seeing you as a productive individual in society at this rate...

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 7 | Funny 2


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## LittleT (May 12, 2016)

@Mauri I have seen you derail a few threads now and and give advice when you have no experience  If you have never owned or raised a _P. Metallica_ how can you give advice? You can learn so much from this forum but you really don't help yourself by calling people who dare disagree with you either a troll or bully.

I'm a new member and I haven't experienced any bullying or mean behaviour from any member on here, so far people seem to be nice and incredibly helpful! You are new to keeping Ts, so am I. I have only been keeping for four years and still a noob or newbie and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. The members here have a wealth of knowledge to offer, you just have to listen rather than letting your ego get in the way.

Poec54 has given you some great advice below!


Poec54 said:


> ...Beginners_ in any field_ learn a lot more by listening, watching, and reading, rather than talking a lot and arguing...

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 6 | Love 1 | Award 1


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## mistertim (May 12, 2016)

Mauri said:


> And fyi it's how they are treating me that's the problem and is for new members I have seen.


Actually, new members who are civil, thirsty for knowledge, and open to constructive criticism from those who have experience in this hobby are treated very well here. The problem doesn't have anything to do with you being new, it has to do with your attitude and how you respond to any criticism, no matter how constructive and well meant. The fact that you've apparently responded with profanity laced PMs as well doesn't really help your case.

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1 | Agree 2 | Award 1


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## Toxoderidae (May 12, 2016)

Mauri- I like you to an extent. It's fun to talk about history and such with you. But please do not continue this. I want to see you succeed as a keeper, and not become hated on the site. Just relax a little, you try to help, and it's awesome, but sometimes you're misinformed or not knowledgeable enough. I've personally kept metallicas of all sizes, from tiny slings, to juvies, and large specimens. I've been keeping nothing but poecs, so I can give accurate advice with them. Find a genus or type you're best with (arboreal, obligate or terrestrial) and seek out ways to further learn about them, and eventually teach others.

Reactions: Like 6 | Optimistic 1


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## lalberts9310 (May 12, 2016)

Mauri said:


> Actually I deleted it beforehand. Beat you to it am afraid so nice try.
> 
> And fyi it's how they are treating me that's the problem and is for new members I have seen.
> 
> ...


Can I ask you a favor? While you're there handing out your flyers, will you please refer everyone to this thread as well. And no worries I'll save the posts on this thread so if it gets deleted, the curious can just pm me and I'll forward. Maybe all the members here should send me the PMs they received from you as well, so I can forward those along too. That way everyone will see how well you have behaved here.

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Mauri (May 12, 2016)

mistertim said:


> Actually, new members who are civil, thirsty for knowledge, and open to constructive criticism from those who have experience in this hobby are treated very well here. The problem doesn't have anything to do with you being new, it has to do with your attitude and how you respond to any criticism, no matter how constructive and well meant. The fact that you've apparently responded with profanity laced PMs as well doesn't really help your case.


Again you keep talking about how I respond to criticism...where is it? What is it I said that needed correcting. You seem unable to grasp the point. I am reacting to people saying I have poor husbandry or I am to be ignored because am new.

Please tell me where is this constructive criticism I have been giving and have refused to accept and then been rude about?

Without giving any chance to defend what it is I have said. It's like being dismissed out of hand without any reason just because I am new.

You are smearing me with having reacted to nice friendly advice. That's a barefaced lie. And you know it.

I created a thread about enclosures for two new slings and no problems. Why? Because it was a decent thread with fair and non insulting answers.

If you cant quote anything like several others here, you are just trying to waste my time. And the reason for pm's was to try and discuss things civilly. All I got was proof people are trying to troll, even more confirmation of the crap some people think they can pull.

Reactions: Dislike 2


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## Toxoderidae (May 12, 2016)

Mauri said:


> Again you keep talking about how I respond to criticism...where is it? What is it I said that needed correcting. You seem unable to grasp the point. I am reacting to people saying I have poor husbandry or I am to be ignored because am new.
> 
> Without giving any chance to defend what it is I have said. It's like being dismissed out of hand without any reason just because I am new.
> 
> ...


We aren't discrediting you because you're new. I'm new, I've only kept for 7 months. I've taken the time to learn, and when someone says "hey that's wrong" I don't launch the nukes, I ask why and learn from that. I use it as a teaching experience.

Reactions: Agree 4


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## Mauri (May 12, 2016)

LittleT said:


> @Mauri I have seen you derail a few threads now and and give advice when you have no experience  If you have never owned or raised a _P. Metallica_ how can you give advice? You can learn so much from this forum but you really don't help yourself by calling people who dare disagree with you either a troll or bully.
> 
> I'm a new member and I haven't experienced any bullying or mean behaviour from any member on here, so far people seem to be nice and incredibly helpful! You are new to keeping Ts, so am I. I have only been keeping for four years and still a noob or newbie and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. The members here have a wealth of knowledge to offer, you just have to listen rather than letting your ego get in the way.
> 
> Poec54 has given you some great advice below!


You realise I just won these last few pages by this post.

Perhaps someone will enlighten you as to what is wrong here and is exactly what I have been getting annoyed by and it's exactly the attitude that is wrong.

Thanks!

Am done my argument has just been 100% vindicated. (it's actually going to be quoted on the fliers I hand out).

It's reeks of elitism and snobbery.

Reactions: Dislike 4 | Disagree 2


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## lalberts9310 (May 12, 2016)

Mauri said:


> And the reason for pm's was to try and discuss things civilly. All I got was proof people are trying to troll,


Civilly? Please

Tell me, what is your definition of being civil? Calling members here names via PM?

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Chris LXXIX (May 12, 2016)

Mauri said:


> What a pointless question.
> 
> How long is a piece of string? What's the average intellect of most human beings? How many trolls you think live on any forums....?


Ah ah, indeed that was a pointless question, but i'm a curious (in the good way) weirdo.

Oh, forums sometimes are full not only of Trolls but even of pious religious devoted folks, i'm not one of those of course but _verily i say unto you_, i'm happy that i'm not in your "list"

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Poec54 (May 12, 2016)

Mauri said:


> -Again you keep talking about how I respond to criticism...where is it?
> 
> - You realise I just won these last few pages by this post.


 
_"Where is it?"_  -  Your posts have been cleaned up by the moderators.

_'Won these last few pages.' _  -   Only in your mind.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2 | Funny 1


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## Andrea82 (May 12, 2016)

Good to know he's pmed other members with insults as well. He is on my ignore list, the only one actually.....
I am a newb. And I am proud to be one, since it means I get to learn new stuff. 
I really don't get why a newcomer feels the need to be so defensive. If you're in school, you need to start at the bottom basics. When you learn to ride a horse, to draw, to paint, you need to start at the basics. You will make mistakes, but that is why you're learning the basics first. If you get up on horse facing the rear end of it, and someone tells you it is better to get off and try again facing the right way, you don't argue. You get off and follow advice. That is, if you want to learn the right way to ride....

Reactions: Like 3 | Award 1


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## Poec54 (May 12, 2016)

Andrea82 said:


> you don't argue. You follow advice.


 
Hmmm, listen and learn from other people's insight and experience, or argue and fight?  Two very appealing options.  What to do?  I'm afraid I'd have to toss a coin on this one.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## viper69 (May 12, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> but even of pious religious devoted folks


I heard the Papa keeps an H. mac to match his outfits!

Reactions: Funny 1


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## viper69 (May 12, 2016)

Mauri said:


> And poor analogy! Owning a poeci and working with bombs?


It's called hyperbole Mauri hahahh

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 4


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## viper69 (May 12, 2016)

Mauri said:


> All I got was proof people are trying to troll


I've read your PMs, there was no trolling at all in the PMs between you and the other person. And, like in this thread and almost all your others, you exploded with vitriol.

Mauri, I hope you have some Valium by your table otherwise you may give yourself a heart attack at this rate.

I've never seen anyone react on any forum the way you have, it baffles me.

Though honestly, I can't say I'm surprised at all. As this is consistent behavior from you based on previous threads.

The responses I have read from all are consistent in these types of circumstances.

I'm surprised this thread hasn't been shut down yet.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 3


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## Chris LXXIX (May 12, 2016)

viper69 said:


> I heard the Papa keeps an H. mac to match his outfits!


Ah, also a 'Baboon' _Theraphosidae_? Tought Molotov cocktail only

Reactions: Funny 1


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## viper69 (May 12, 2016)

Mauri said:


> or anyone but if they refer to me as an idiot without


Would you quote the person who did this? This is important information.



Mauri said:


> Well first off was called an idiot by a member here


Would you quote the person who did this? This is important information.

I think such information would be very helpful, mind you typing out a screenname is not proof.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Chris LXXIX (May 12, 2016)

I can't speak too bad about 'Papa Ciccio' (Pope Francis) otherwise one day i will end living in hell for the eternity (with Gandhi, according to South Park creators)  <--- EEK!

I have to repent before it's too late otherwise:





Please forgive me 'Papa Ciccio'. Amen

Reactions: Funny 2


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## EulersK (May 12, 2016)

Wow, even other new users and new hobbyists see what's going on. That's actually impressive. 

It's also good to see that I'm not the only one whose inbox he's filled with profanities.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## TownesVanZandt (May 12, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> I can't speak too bad about 'Papa Ciccio' (Pope Francis) otherwise one day i will end living in hell for the eternity (with Gandhi, according to South Park creators)  <--- EEK!
> 
> I have to repent before it's too late otherwise:
> 
> ...


Don´t worry Chris, if you end up in the Catholic purgatory, I will always put in a good word for you to join us in the Orthodox part of heaven instead

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 3


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## mistertim (May 12, 2016)

EulersK said:


> Wow, even other new users and new hobbyists see what's going on. That's actually impressive.
> 
> It's also good to see that I'm not the only one whose inbox he's filled with profanities.


I never got one of those love letters from him. Now I feel left out.

Reactions: Funny 5


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## Venom1080 (May 12, 2016)

mistertim said:


> I never got one of those love letters from him. Now I feel left out.


dont worry! just ahem, "troll" him and youll get plenty!

Reactions: Funny 3


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## viper69 (May 12, 2016)

Mauri said:


> I will be waiting three hours before the BTS so at least now I have something to do whilst in the queue. I will also go out of my way to be most presentable and be at my most charming/eloquent.
> 
> Certainly the name poec will get a nice mention from yours truly.


Let me guess this straight, you are going to take the time to print out "thousands" of flyers, regarding an internet forum, with screen names (and maybe some select posts) of people that don't matter to people across the pond? And expect them and people on this forum to care?

If I was at an exotic animal show and someone approached me with such "information", ie flyers with some screennames/forum posts, I'd laugh in their face and say "you must be kidding, who cares, get lost"

That's the most rich post I've ever read on here.

I must be bored out of my mind to reply at all hahhahaha

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 6


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## mistertim (May 12, 2016)

You know...after the overboard post about printing out thousands of flyers about us and distributing them, I'm starting to wonder if maybe WE'RE the ones getting trolled here.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## cold blood (May 12, 2016)

mistertim said:


> You know...after the overboard post about printing out thousands of flyers about us and distributing them, I'm starting to wonder if maybe WE'RE the ones getting trolled here.


I think that much is clear as a bell.


@MrDeranged , I'm just curious if you have been following this thread...it seems like the kind of thread that's become pretty pointless with nothing to gain.

Reactions: Agree 6


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## viper69 (May 12, 2016)

mistertim said:


> You know...after the overboard post about printing out thousands of flyers about us and distributing them, I'm starting to wonder if maybe WE'RE the ones getting trolled here.


It's like geometry, it's a given

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Poec54 (May 12, 2016)

mistertim said:


> You know...after the overboard post about printing out thousands of flyers about us and distributing them


 
If he goes to all that trouble I hope he learns how to use spell check and grammar check.

Reactions: Funny 6


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## Mauri (May 13, 2016)

Haha now it's the grammar police as well. Sad.

Oh and the original trolls calling the person being trolled the troll. Have seen it all over the last few pages...nothing new that hasnt been tried on me a few times.

So it's a troll to inform other people of a potential hazard in joining an internet forum? If you guys hadnt noticed it's been in the news recently (at least in the UK) quite a lot. But I wont mention names, am not that petty.

I'll just let them know you might get called an idiot or some other insult because you disagree with more "experienced" users. So that they can avoid feeling bad and/or getting into arguments. Whether or not some important people in the hobby look into it that's another matter.

Owning T's has been a really stressful time for me simply because am worried that they wont make it, coming here should have been pleasant but it has been spoilt by people who use their so called "experience" to put newcomers down.

Perhaps they dont remember when it is they were new to the hobby and how hurtful it could be when others call you an idiot.

p.s I suspect poec I am light years ahead of you in terms of intelligence even if my so called "grammar" is bad. Ever had a genius in your family? I dont think so...

And littleT was a perfect example "mauri you cant give advice on a poki, because you dont own one".

That quote rests my case and so ends this discussion. Sums everything up how another newcomer has been made to think in a certain way by people here.

Well in the real world anyone can advise anyone about anything they so choose. It's what they say that matters not if they own something/have owned/will own or have just read books etc.

If you think otherwise you're just clowns who think they are clever.

You lose I win..take that and party!  (and sorry I do love it when you destroy trolls on a forum, took me awhile but I knew I'd get there in the end. Truth always wins.)

Here's a family motto

"Sic itur ad astra in aeternum"

And my favourite from my mums side

"cur me persequeris" I let my Italian friend look this one up. I'll give him a prize if he can give me a literal translation....

(am going to the BTS chico so could get you something...a water dish haha?...would send you a sling if you were Uk).

Reactions: Disagree 4 | Funny 2


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## Poec54 (May 13, 2016)

Mauri said:


> 1)  Perhaps they dont remember when it is they were new to the hobby and how hurtful it could be
> 
> 2)  I suspect poec I am light years ahead of you in terms of intelligence even if my so called "grammar" is bad.
> 
> 3)  Ever had a genius in your family? I dont think so...



1)  We remember; we also didn't come out of the starting gate insulting people.  We listened and learned, and didn't try to do all the talking, which is conducive to learning. 

2)  No doubt you are, we have dozens of posts of yours that offer proof of that. 

3)  Apparently your family doesn't either.

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 5


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## mistertim (May 13, 2016)

I guess it isn't necessarily trolling if you're actually serious about all that flyer stuff. If you are, then its just......freaking weird. I mean, really, step back and look at what you're saying objectively. Are you really so thin skinned, insecure, and vindictive that you're going to spend a bunch of time printing out flyers about people you (incorrectly) believe insulted you in an online forum for the purpose of going around to shows or whatever and handing them out? My guess is most people you encounter will also just think you're really weird and very obsessed.

FWIW, I remember quite clearly when I first came here and was brand new to the hobby; it wasn't all that long ago (last Sept). I asked for advice about various things (including how quickly to get into more advanced species), and felt I was treated quite nicely. I took the more experienced keepers' advice and constructive criticism and I feel I'm a far better T keeper for it. I didn't get defensive or angry if I was wrong about something; I saw it as a learning experience and was glad to get input from very experienced members here, including the people you've tried to label as "trolls". As I said before, the common denominator in all of these negative interactions is you, not them.

Lighten up a bit, and try not to take yourself so seriously, man. I said something stupid and had a dumb noob moment a little while back, and it was hilarious. I thought I was clever by suggesting a trap door spider for another posters's spare enclosure, but wasn't sure he wanted that because it wasn't a tarantula. Turns out cold blood had already suggested it......but used the scientific name which I didn't know, and it WAS a tarantula, which I didn't know. When he pointed that out I just laughed and admitted I got caught in a noob moment because it *was* funny. Life's a bit too short and stressful enough as it is to spend so much time being angry and vindictive about people in an online forum who aren't even trying to be insulting or mean to you, but are trying to help you.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 4


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## lalberts9310 (May 13, 2016)

Mauri said:


> p.s I suspect poec I am light years ahead of you in terms of intelligence even if my so called "grammar" is bad. Ever had a genius in your family? I dont think so...


Man... I don't think this is your place to talk about intelligence... 



Mauri said:


> And littleT was a perfect example "mauri you cant give advice on a poki, because you dont own one".


Not all Ts are kept the same, if you don't know how a poec sling should be kept, how can you give husbandry advice then?

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1


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## LittleT (May 13, 2016)

Mauri said:


> ....And littleT was a perfect example "mauri you cant give advice on a poki, because you dont own one".
> 
> That quote rests my case and so ends this discussion. Sums everything up how another newcomer has been made to think in a certain way by people here.
> 
> ...


I honestly don't understand how can you give honest advice without ever even owning or having experience with raising a _P. metallica_? 
I wouldn't even give advice on _Avicularia _because I haven't raised mine yet, if they reach adulthood and if I could help, I would offer advice based on my own personal experience.

I'm only replying because you've mentioned my username and twisted what I posted to suit your own agenda. No, I haven't been made to think a certain way by people here. My experience on this forum has so far been really nice, the members here have made me feel welcome and they were incredibly helpful and offered advice when I was worried about my _Avicularia minatrix_ spiderlings potentially dying... the slings are doing really well and eating fantastically, I feel much more confident with raising them now and I even own a few more _Avicularia_ spiderlings, who are also doing really well.

I have respect for the members here, their knowledge and experience. I just have respect for people in general, often I find if you are respectful and polite you'll get a lot more help and advice from people, plus generally they are respectful and polite back.

Sadly you are right, anyone can give advice about anything  but it can be dangerous if the wrong advice is given. You can read the books, read about other people's experiences, watch youtube videos but it doesn't prepare you and give you the necessary skills to deal with it yourself.

Reactions: Like 5 | Agree 3


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## Poec54 (May 13, 2016)

mistertim said:


> I
> Life's a bit too short and stressful enough as it is to spend so much time being angry and vindictive about people.



So _it's not_ a sign of maturity and wisdom then?  Oh boy, I've been doing this all wrong.  I _have got_ to start writing this stuff down.

Reactions: Funny 4


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## Poec54 (May 13, 2016)

LittleT said:


> I
> I haven't been made to think a certain way by people here. My experience on this forum has so far been really nice, the members here have made me feel welcome and they were incredibly helpful and offered advice when I was worried about my _Avicularia minatrix_ spiderlings potentially dying... the slings are doing really well and eating fantastically, I feel much more confident with raising them now and I even own a few more _Avicularia_ spiderlings, who are also doing really well.
> 
> I have respect for the members here, their knowledge and experience. I just have respect for people in general, often I find if you are respectful and polite you'll get a lot more help and advice from people, plus generally they are respectful and polite back.



You are the kind of beginner that we're here for.  Most people that come to this forum are like that.  It makes up for the occasional argumentative ones and drama queens (who bad mouth us and call this place 'toxic').

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 2


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## Pociemon (May 13, 2016)

Mauri said:


> Sad.


Mauri: You really should try and take a deep breath and relax a little bit. Like Mistertim says; Life's too short and stressful enough as it is. I actually believe you mean well when you write and give advice, you also write well. But why not just take a step back, relax and get on with this hobby, and also continue in here! There is alot of helpful people in here, why not listen and maybe you will learn something along the way!
You obviously read up on the T stuff wich is very good, but it is just that you maybe should start out giving advice with T´s you have experience with! Eventually you will get to the more advanced T´s. Just forget about this thread in here and start over again with a more positive attitude. People critisize you because you are acting like a little offended schoolboy, why not take it like a man and get on to new and better things in here?

Maybe use all that energi of yours to learn new stuff and participate in here in a positive way!
It is easy to get annoyed by people if you feel you a treated wrong, and start telling people your meaning about it... Believe me i know this, i have on occassions also spoken out for what i believe in in here, but you let yourself get too personal about it...let it go and life in here can be quite good for you..

And i hope you dont go crazy about this advice for you, because i mean no harm by my comments, just to help you out...

Reactions: Like 4 | Love 1


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## louise f (May 13, 2016)

Smile at the world and it smiles back, so to say. 

This music is something you only can be happy about

Reactions: Like 3 | Lollipop 1


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## Chris LXXIX (May 13, 2016)

Mauri said:


> And my favourite from my mums side
> 
> "cur me persequeris" I let my Italian friend look this one up. I'll give him a prize if he can give me a literal translation...


My guess is "_why do you persecute me_" ("_perché mi perseguiti_" means in modern Italian) originated by "_Saulo_" and _Paul_ conversion.

I assume that your family was as well involved in the Crusades, am i wrong?

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Tfisher (May 13, 2016)

well this situation escalated quickly.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Toxoderidae (May 13, 2016)

I'll be the man here and admit it to Mauri. I was the one saying he was "going to effectively ruin the hobby" After he posted information that was incorrect, then went into full rage mode. I keep metallicas, and poecs in general. I've raised mine from a tiny sling that could sit on my thumb to a subadult female that is currently chilling on the door to her tank. I've seen them run in circles around the enclosure, run out and onto my arm, or jump onto the floor and make a mad dash for the wall. You can't give advice on a species you don't keep unless it's super basic. These are not. I don't even touch avic threads, I'm terrible with avics. (odd, coming from an exotic mantis keeper) and for 80% of all NWs, I know little to nothing. Lighten up, and use that thinker of yours for good.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## EulersK (May 13, 2016)

He got banned, and he's back! Man, if you hate us so much, why do you insist on coming back? It seems like every forum has one of you. Someone who everyone hates, and who hates everyone else. You clearly do not like your time here, so why not go elsewhere?

http://www.tarantulaforum.com/
http://www.tarantulasus.com/forum.php
http://thebts.co.uk/forums/forum.php
http://atshq.org/boards/

Take your pick.

Reactions: Like 1 | Clarification Please 1


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## mistertim (May 13, 2016)

Mauri2 said:


> ( i am not mauri)


Meh, by doing this you're just feeding into his victim complex. C'mon.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Czech prime (May 13, 2016)

Hello! Mauri please do not take everything as bad criticism. Yes people here can be harsh at times because they want you not to kill your T and offer great advice. If someone calls you a noob take it the positive way- you still have to improve and doing that will be interesting. I have been keeping tarantulas for around 6 years now and I don't mind being corrected if I am doing something wrong (even tho i don't like it if the person correcting me is harsh. But them being harsh makes me not want to do that same mistake again).
 I'll get to breaking down your post now...


Mauri said:


> I suspect poec I am light years ahead of you in terms of intelligence even if my so called "grammar" is bad. Ever had a genius in your family? I dont think so...


Please. You are kissing your own ass here. I know someone just like you in real life. Snobby douchebag that thinks he is so great because he can recite 3 numbers of pi over the average.


Mauri said:


> If you think otherwise you're just clowns who think they are clever.


Could be applied to you here..



Mauri said:


> my so called "grammar"


What? How else would you call it?



Mauri said:


> "mauri you cant give advice on a poki, because you dont own one".


This sentance is the closest to something real you have written. I would much rather take advice from people who have kept poecilotheria than from someone that hasn't. Sorry.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Mauri (May 13, 2016)

It's not the forum I dislike it's just certain individuals who aren't getting the message. Just dont answer my posts, it's quite simple. And if you refer to me as an idiot prepare for a quick and quite possibly hostile response.

I find it ironic that people are calling me the troll when I havent attacked any post, all I done is fight my corner.

And the jokes are pathetic. I suppose that's what happens when you cant win an argument with logic, you resort to cheap jibes or insults. Really all you are doing is just proving my points even more....

Reactions: Dislike 2 | Disagree 1 | Informative 1


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## Mauri (May 13, 2016)

Tuffz said:


> Hello! Mauri please do not take everything as bad criticism. Yes people here can be harsh at times because they want you not to kill your T and offer great advice. If someone calls you a noob take it the positive way- you still have to improve and doing that will be interesting. I have been keeping tarantulas for around 6 years now and I don't mind being corrected if I am doing something wrong (even tho i don't like it if the person correcting me is harsh. But them being harsh makes me not want to do that same mistake again).
> I'll get to breaking down your post now...
> 
> Please. You are kissing your own ass here. I know someone just like you in real life. Snobby douchebag that thinks he is so great because he can recite 3 numbers of pi over the average.
> ...


You miss the point. It was about slings therefore as an owner of two arb slings I can give advice. So you saying I cant give advice re a poeci sling because I havent owned one?

That's a crock of shite.

So that's my point I didnt say anything that needed correcting! If I did I could end this whole thing, hold my hands up and apologise profusely. But if I havent given any bad advice, and having a certain amount of pride what do you sugggest I do? 

It's like admitting you have done something when you havent!!!!!!

And yes you can choose to take someone advice over mine but you arent calling me an idiot in the process are you or claiming my husbandry is poor so am perfectly ok with this statement!

I never said otherwise it's the blatant putting down of someone's advice without any actual explanation that has me pissed off. Because to someone with my intelligence it's not only wrong, rude, it's also very bad manners and dis-respectful.

It's just not cricket ol chap! And certainly doesnt exist in the Queensbury rules!!!

And on that note am off to enjoy a pleasant evening in the pub. Hopefully I wont choke on my beer thinking about some of the rude people here.

Reactions: Dislike 4 | Disagree 2 | Informative 1


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## Czech prime (May 13, 2016)

Mauri said:


> You miss the point. It was about slings therefore as an owner of two arb slings I can give advice. So you saying I cant give advice re a poeci sling because I havent owned one?
> 
> That's a crock of shite.
> 
> ...


Ok but the person bought a poecilotheria sling which is no less of a poecilotheria. You keep avic slings am i right?


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## Toxoderidae (May 13, 2016)

Bruh. You're despicable my friend. A true disgrace.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Helpful 1


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## Czech prime (May 13, 2016)

Mauri said:


> Because to someone with my intelligence it's not only wrong, rude, it's also very bad manners and dis-respectful.


Intelligence or insecurity? I doubt that you would have to spam this so much if you were that intelligent. 
YOU ARE AVERAGE AT BEST!

Reactions: Agree 3


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## lalberts9310 (May 13, 2016)

Mauri said:


> And the jokes are pathetic. I suppose that's what happens when you cant win an argument with logic, you resort to cheap jibes or insults.


Just like you have insulted several members here via PM?

Reactions: Agree 1 | Award 2


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## Mauri (May 13, 2016)

Tuffz said:


> Ok but the person bought a poecilotheria sling which is no less of a poecilotheria. You keep avic slings am i right?


Yes and? I'll give u 5 mins but am wasting the sunshine so make it good.

Actually forget it am off. 

Arboreal slings are arboreal slings and my comments were in regard to feeding crickets hence I am perfectly capable of giving advice.

So stop trying to waste time and continue an argument that's already lost. You are just further making me look right and you look rather silly!

Reactions: Disagree 3


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## Czech prime (May 13, 2016)

Mauri said:


> Yes and? I'll give u 5 mins but am wasting the sunshine so make it good.


An Avic is not a pokie.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## lalberts9310 (May 13, 2016)

Mauri said:


> You miss the point. It was about slings therefore as an owner of two arb slings I can give advice. So you saying I cant give advice re a poeci sling because I havent owned one?


No, you seem to miss the point. Avic husbandry is not the same as that of a poeci. Not all arboreals are kept the same. If I had to keep an O. violaceopes like you do an avic, it would die. And vice versa. And both are arboreals, but they are kept differently.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 5


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## lalberts9310 (May 13, 2016)

Mauri said:


> Arboreal slings are arboreal slings and my comments were in regard to feeding crickets hence I am perfectly capable of giving advice.


Actually with this statement, you are just proving to everyone how terribly wrong you are.

Reactions: Agree 7


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## grimmjowls (May 13, 2016)

...  anyone wonder what happened to OP or...

Reactions: Funny 1 | Lollipop 1


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## mistertim (May 13, 2016)

lalberts9310 said:


> Actually with this statement, you are just proving to everyone how terribly wrong you are.


Cars are cars. What difference does it make if its a Ford or Ferrari? Same thing, and I can deal with both just fine with very little driving experience. 

STOP TRYING TO OPPRESS ME, TROLL!

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 3


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