# Spinifer vs. Longimanus - how do you tell?



## RoachGirlRen (Nov 11, 2007)

I was surfing the web for pictures of H. spinifer and I came across this:





To me, the two scorps look extremely similar, but for slightly longer pincers on the longimanus, and obviously a significant difference in size. This got me wondering about what exactly defines spinifer vs. longimanus. I ask because I have two collasally huge spinifers, larger than my emps, and three that are the same size or slightly smaller than my emps. I just assumed they were young spinifers, but I've been reading posts suggesting that emps are actually longer/larger than spinifers. This makes me wonder, is it possible that two of my "spinifers" are actually longimanus? They were all sold as Asian Forest Scorpions (well, one was sold as an emp ::rolls eyes:: ), and both species are included under that title I believe, right? (Also, doing a forum search; one topic had a great link, but the lingo is a bit over my head)


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## Thaedion (Nov 11, 2007)

The main difference between the spinifer and longimanus (aside from the claws) comes to granulation patterns.

In the book 'revision of the genus Heterometrus' Couzijn, there are alot of subspecies to the longimanus also.

So if you want an attempt of an ID by ABers you could post a close, detailed view of the carapace that highlights the granulation as a start.


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## H. cyaneus (Nov 12, 2007)

Hi,

Thaedion, as of right now Kovarik got rid of all the subspecies, which might of been a good thing as long as a bad thing.  

Roach, telling the difference between H. spinifer and H. longimanus can be pretty hard. The only difference is a slight change in granulation on the carapace and male H. longimanus have very long pedipalps. Here's a wonderful photo of a male from the Kovarik review.







Then here's a horrible photo of one of my H. spinifer male. His pedipalps are slightly longer than some Heterometrus.







I believe the slighty longer pedipalps also goes for the female spinifer as well. This is a photo for a female longimanus.







The pedipalps are generally the same size. They look a bit different because of angles and all of that..

So unless they're males, you'll need to be able to tell the difference between the granulation patterns. So here they are too.

H. longimanus






H. spinifer






I've found the bigger problem for comparing these two is that even the slightest glare to put you off of which one it is.

Now looking at it, that's pretty much the same thing Thaedion said.  

Best of luck,
Mike

Reactions: Like 1


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## RoachGirlRen (Nov 12, 2007)

Wow, excellent explanation guys - thanks a million! I'll have to take a close look at my guys and see who is what ^^


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## skinheaddave (Nov 13, 2007)

By far the easiest way to see the granulation in detail is to put them under UV lighting.  That being said, I've seen specimens from the same population with a large degree of variation.  Using only one or two characters will never really do the trick for these guys.  If you really want to know, then you key it out using Couzijn, key it out using Kovarik and then start comparing point by point to the species descriptions in both (assuming both keys gave you the same answer).  The more Heterometrus I do, the more they turn out to be a big mess.

Cheers,
Dave


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