# Androctonus Australis. recomeded or not?



## electrophyste (Apr 23, 2008)

Hi
   I find Androctonus Australis. to be one of the most beautiful scorps you can get and i was thinking about purchasing one.
I got my girst scorpion about a year ago and have gotten 4 more since then and love everyone... there so fascinating. 
  I understand and respect the potency these little guys can punch would you recomend one or would you say no to that?
  Are they hard to keep or easy like an emperor?


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## Aztek (Apr 23, 2008)

Not reccomended for someone with a little experience.
May I reccomend some B.Jacksonis?
They have a "fat" tail.


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## Niloticus (Apr 23, 2008)

electrophyste said:


> Hi
> I find Androctonus Australis. to be one of the most beautiful scorps you can get and i was thinking about purchasing one.
> I got my girst scorpion about a year ago and have gotten 4 more since then and love everyone... there so fascinating.
> I understand and respect the potency these little guys can punch would you recomend one or would you say no to that?
> Are they hard to keep or easy like an emperor?


They are quite hardy scorpions and yes, very beautiful. I would not recommend A. Australis to a beginner, although. Lots of caution is suggested when dealing with this species.

Niloticus


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## ~Abyss~ (Apr 23, 2008)

he didn't say he was a begginer. I totally recomend most of hot scorpions that are easy to take care of to people such as your self who understand the potency of these scorps. Care is fairly easy for these scorps and if you understand and I mean ....trully trully enderstand how DANGEROUS this scorpion is..than by all means buy one. Just take great precautions and make sure your set up is right.
-Eddy

Reactions: Agree 2


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## ralliart (Apr 23, 2008)

Have to agree with Eddy on this one.

He's been in the hobby for almost a year & he seems aware of the risk. A level 3 is no different from a level 5 if the owner is responsible enough & knows the risk.

Just the same, a level 2 can be as dangerous as a level 5 if you don't know how to take care of them properly. :? 

@electrophyste 

imho, desert scorps are easier to keep than emps or heterometrus as they don't require high humidity. (well atleast for me since I live in a tropical country)


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## apidaeman (Apr 23, 2008)

Personally I'm happy with my less potent varieties. I personally wouldn't get one myself just not worth the risk to me. 
However if you fully understand the risk and you want one get one.


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## ~Abyss~ (Apr 23, 2008)

ralliart said:


> Have to agree with Eddy on this one.
> 
> He's been in the hobby for almost a year & he seems aware of the risk.


It's been a little more than "almost a year" but thanks I appreciate that.  
-Eddy


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## ralliart (Apr 23, 2008)

abyss_X3 said:


> It's been a little more than "almost a year" but thanks I appreciate that.
> -Eddy


You're really psychedelic as what your 'mood' says.  

ofcourse I was refering to the thread starter when I said "almost a year";P 

And I'm aware that you're one of the more experienced hobbyist around. :worship:


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## GartenSpinnen (Apr 23, 2008)

No i would not recommend this species to someone with only a year worth of experience. Work with some other species that are defensive and maybe a little potent like C. exilicauda or something along those lines, maybe even a Parabuthus sp.? If you are just looking for the fat tail look there is other species out there that are far less dangerous and just as interesting to keep. One that comes to mind is V. spinigeris. This particular species is very defensive, fast, and unpredictable (as are all scorpions, but i think this one a little more so) Someone with little experience dealing with this type of scorpion is a mishap waiting to happen. All it takes is 1 person dying from a sting and then laws about keeping scorpions are going to get strict and start popping up all over the place. Do the hobby a favor and wait until you have more experience. 
-Nate


BTW- I was going to use snakes as an example, if someone is keeping a copperhead for a year, should they really jump up to a black mamba? I know thats a bad comparison but you get the idea...


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## GartenSpinnen (Apr 23, 2008)

ralliart said:


> Just the same, a level 2 can be as dangerous as a level 5 if you don't know how to take care of them properly. :?


So your saying a species such as V. spinigeris or H. spinifer is just as dangerous as A. australis or any other Androctonus sp.? Sorry but thats very untrue. The difference? If you slip up and get tagged by an H. spinifer your chance of dying is pretty much near zero, if you get tagged by a A. australis you have a REAL chance of dying, you cant just walk in the hospital and say hey i got tagged by an A. australis can you help me out? More than likely there is going to be little they can do for you! And even if you don't die (which you probably wont) you are still going to be very miserable and probably wish you did die. Just saying something like that shows you have very little respect for how dangerous some species of scorpions can really be! This type of thinking is what is going to lead people that have no business handling species such as A. australis getting tagged and then they will probably end up attracting negative attention to the hobby!:evil: 


-Nate


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## electrophyste (Apr 23, 2008)

> Work with some other species that are defensive and maybe a little potent like C. exilicauda or something along those lines, maybe even a Parabuthus sp.?


i do have Mesobuthus martensii and have had him for a few months. I also have a Heterometrus spiniferis, a Hadogenes paucidens, a Pandinus imperator, a Pandinus Cavimanus. i know none of these are even close to the potency of an Androctonus australis but there just so beautiful. i know there other fat tail scorps out there but none that look like this beauty.

if i decide to take this little guy what would be the best thing to keep him, a tank with a screan lid or kricket keeper or what just because i know my girl friend will be on me about making sure he cant excape.

None of mine have ever excaped but my friends emperor from down the street did so she a little paranoid now. lol.


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## Andrew273 (Apr 23, 2008)

If you're incredibly careful around it and willingly to really research it first I can't see it being a problem. Scorpion wise I had a red claw, a bunch of emps, and a flatrock. After that I got 3 LQs and an A amoreuxi. So it's a bit of a leap but easily doable. They're very easy to keep, just be sure to keep the humidity very low.


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## Venom (Apr 23, 2008)

If you have to ask, you aren't ready.

Androctonus sp. are for hobbyists who have been keeping for multiple years. The tolerance for mistakes with this species is ZERO, so if you aren't experienced to the point of being able to avoid stings, you aren't ready for A. australis. You need more experience than you have. Plus, keeping a number of species doesn't necessarily prepare you for THIS species, for instance, if they were all fairly docile scorpions you were keeping. It's not a psychotically defensive invertebrate, but keeping low-defensiveness species generally does not develop that extreme caution in a keeper that is needed with species like this. If you want venomous species, you should start out with, say, Centruroides, Babycurus, Mesobuthus, and other such species. Androctonus australis has an LD50 ( potency measured in mice ) equal to Ophiophagus hannah, also known as the king cobra. It's not a casual pet.


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## Venom (Apr 23, 2008)

If you are interested in this scorpion just for the appearance, you might want to check out the Hadrurus "desert hairy" scorpions. They are similar enough to have been mistaken for each other more than once. And they are harmless


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## ~Abyss~ (Apr 23, 2008)

Venom said:


> If you have to ask, you aren't ready.
> 
> Androctonus sp. are for hobbyists who have been keeping for multiple years. The tolerance for mistakes with this species is ZERO, so if you aren't experienced to the point of being able to avoid stings, you aren't ready for A. australis. You need more experience than you have. Plus, keeping a number of species doesn't necessarily prepare you for THIS species, for instance, if they were all fairly docile scorpions you were keeping. It's not a psychotically defensive invertebrate, but keeping low-defensiveness species generally does not develop that extreme caution in a keeper that is needed with species like this. If you want venomous species, you should start out with, say, Centruroides, Babycurus, Mesobuthus, and other such species. Androctonus australis has an LD50 ( potency measured in mice ) equal to Ophiophagus hannah, also known as the king cobra. It's not a casual pet.


I agree with Venom on one point. If you have to question if you are ready then you might not be. One of my first scorp was an LQ and I never posted anything prior to it because I knew I wanted it. I got them second instar to adjust myself to them and ended up succesfully breeding them. If you KNOW your ready then get one. In the end who really cares what you get other than your self. But remeber any scorpion you get can be dangerous and IS VENOMOUS.
-Eddy


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## Xaranx (Apr 23, 2008)

I actually got one of these today, sub-adult that is very close to molting.  Can't wait to see what she(?) looks like when she finally does.  If you respect it for what it is and are willing to take the responsibility there shouldn't be any problems.


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## signinsimple (Apr 23, 2008)

I'd go with a dune scorpion or Desert Hairy.  They look very similar, with longer and slightly less thick tails.  I'm fairly new to the hobby as well and one thing I've learned is that these little guys can behave in very unexpected ways.  I was trying to clean my Pallid Desert Hairy's cage a bit and tried to move the scorp to one side using tweezers when it grabbed onto them with its claws and started climbing up the tweezers with its claws like a monkey...and alarmingly fast.  What would you do if a deadly species like this one did the same thing?  I would think it would take alot of experience not to panic and make a mistake.  Just my two cents.

Reactions: Lollipop 1


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## electrophyste (Apr 24, 2008)

abyss_X3 said:


> If you KNOW your ready then get one. In the end who really cares what you get other than your self. But remeber any scorpion you get can be dangerous and IS VENOMOUS.
> -Eddy


I know im ready....

i have a burthus

i dont messs with it i dont mess with any ofthem they are my display pets i have lizards if i want some pet attention. Im ready... have been ready and as for a deset harry.. i have one on the way.. lol.

i want this speciese because of ot beauty.  and as for the harry looking the same i dont think the resemblance is too close


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## ~Abyss~ (Apr 24, 2008)

You sound like I did when people told me H. arizonensis were similar to LQ's. I just love their slim style. Anyways good luck with your new scorps.
-Eddy


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## electrophyste (Apr 24, 2008)

well it turns out  i cant get it for a month or so  which is good that way I can have it set up and everything. Read up on there behavior a bit more.

  I'm super excited.
       I also one day hope to own an  Androctonus crassicauda they are the species that actually made me like the fat tail scorpion


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## yuanti (Apr 25, 2008)

Ultimately it is up to you to decide if you are going to get one.  Just be very respectful and mindful of how quick and dangerous these are. I own two of them and keep them locked up in some acrylic cages. Beautiful scorps but very quick when they want to be and quite defensive.


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## crpy (Apr 25, 2008)

*I agree w/Venom*

The simple fact is accidents happen, just wait, the species is not going away unless acted upon by some outside force.
crpy


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## crpy (Apr 25, 2008)

Also, if you do get the big "A", as with any potentially dangerous critter, follow strict protocol, strong shatter proof container and a lock. checks and balances followed means we do not lose our privileges!


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## GartenSpinnen (Apr 25, 2008)

I cant help but think with the type of mentality of "oh you have owned fairly harmless scorpions for a year? Well if you REALLY want that species that is potentially deadly go for it" this hobby is going to be history in a matter of time. If it came down to someone being stupid enough to go out and just get something like A. australis when they have no business doing so and getting tagged and dying i wouldnt feel any remorse for them and probably wouldnt care either way. However, seeing how my life revolves around this hobby and the fact that it only takes 1 moron and a bunch of media attention to ruin it, it bothers me a bit to no end...

When dealing with venomous animals be it scorpions, spiders, snakes, etc. experience is a MUST. You gain experience by keeping them for a long period of time and keeping different types of species to learn how each of them reacts and how to react to a situation might it arise. Matter in fact i don't even think people should own any of these animals just because they "look cool". Have you been keeping different species of scorpions and studying them for a long period of time, and kept species that are highly defensive with moderate to slightly higher venom and would like to get an A. australis? Go for it. Are you doing studies on hot species for the purpose of bettering the world? Fine. Oh, you think that A. australis looks "cool" and you want one? Um.... no. 

Lets use venomous snakes as an example again. In the world of keeping venomous snakes do you think you would ever see this on one of there forums.... 
Newbie- "Hi i have been keeping garter snakes for a year now, they are really cool! I am so interested in snakes now that i think i want to get a cobra!"
SnakeExpert- "Oh thats a wonderful idea! Just as long as you realize that if you get bit you will probably die i say go for it! Just be careful and everything will be fine. Make sure you keep it in a shatter proof cage and use forceps around it. Good luck"

Sound familiar? Now tell me there isn't something wrong with that...
-Nate


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## GartenSpinnen (Apr 25, 2008)

crpy said:


> The simple fact is accidents happen, just wait, the species is not going away unless acted upon by some outside force.
> crpy


Agreed. Work your way up in the world of keeping scorpions and when your ready for A. australis get one. However, if people that have no business keeping this species continue to do so, sooner or later someone is going to get tagged and possibly die and the media will go crazy and next think you know the governments will be passing all kinds of laws banning the hobby. Its a REAL issue people.
-Nate


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## ralliart (Apr 25, 2008)

Shammer4life

- I'l have to disagree with you. Does anyone have to follow a specific time span for them to be considered experienced & ready? I don't think so. Some hobbyist are mature enough to gain sufficient experience from a short period of time. On my 1st year collecting scorps I was able to breed some 'hot' specie like Leiurus Quinquestriatus, C. Excilicauda, C. Gracilis & H. Hottentotta & that's because I feel ready to. 

Also in my previous post you seem to miss my point when I said level 2 can be just as dangerous as a level 5 for some "irresponsible" hobbyist. 

If a person can be stupid enough to get stung by a level 1 or 2 then obviously he's not yet ready for something more potent.

Honestly, If you research enough & follow advise from more experienced hobbyist & you are aware of what you are getting into, I don't see any reason why you can't be a responsible owner of hot scorps like A.A.

So I'd like to ask, How long into the hobby before you got yourself one of those "hot" scorps?


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## electrophyste (Apr 25, 2008)

I research all i can about my scorps i have Never been tagged, not even close do you know why because i use 12 inch tweezers the closet my hand get to the is when i maneuver them into there container during cleaning and thata about 6 inches away from them... ive picked up the emp and the red claw ONCE... about 9 months ago... but not now.... not ever. i know not to push my luck. im not an idiot. i dont think im going to get it though because because i agree. garter snakes to cobras good simile... changed my mind. i think im might try to pick up a Babycurus jacksoni, they're gorgeous too. would that be better. I respect the hobby as well, and if you feel i dont have enough experience then that makes me second guess getting it
earlier someone mentioned that if you second guess it you shouldnt
what are some good species for someone who thinks there ready for something a lil more hot?


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## Telisis (Apr 27, 2008)

I don't have anything hot except for a Rattlesnake but the Scorpions i keep I do not handle ANYWAY. they don't like it. 

One exception is my male with a broken claw i help him catch his crickets by holding them in my fingers while he takes it.

If you want to get something dangerous think about the responsibilities

1: If anyone , ANYONE gets hurt you are responsible.
2: If you get hurt you'll regret it
3: If someone should dislike your keeping venomous scorps try to raise hell on you
and the list can go on..

If you want a dangerous scorpion there really is no difference in 1 or the other.. (except potency). Which of course is a big factor, but regardless of the being stung factor theres a whole lot more to consider when your keeping it. what if you have to move, can you take it? then what? Kill it?

Leave the big league scorpions to the big league hitters and do what I do and keep the chill ones and look for other ones that are just as cool.

I'm gonna be picking up some Rhopalrus Junceus and an Arizona Hairy and they're going to be just as awesome as a Fat tailed.


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## Venom (Apr 28, 2008)

electrophyste said:


> I research all i can about my scorps i have Never been tagged, not even close do you know why because i use 12 inch tweezers the closet my hand get to the is when i maneuver them into there container during cleaning and thata about 6 inches away from them... ive picked up the emp and the red claw ONCE... about 9 months ago... but not now.... not ever. i know not to push my luck. im not an idiot. i dont think im going to get it though because because i agree. garter snakes to cobras good simile... changed my mind. i think im might try to pick up a Babycurus jacksoni, they're gorgeous too. would that be better. I respect the hobby as well, and if you feel i dont have enough experience then that makes me second guess getting it
> earlier someone mentioned that if you second guess it you shouldnt
> what are some good species for someone who thinks there ready for something a lil more hot?



Thank you! A good decision! :clap: :clap: :clap: 

I'd recommend any of these:

Buthacus arenicola
Buthacus leptochelys nitzani
Babycurus jacksoni
Hottenttota trilineatus
Parabuthus transvaalicus (careful, it sprays)
Centruroides exilicauda.
Mesobuthus martensii

They are all on the venomous side, but not to the extreme of Androctonus. The P.trans, C.exili, and H. trilineatus and have human fatalities, but they are rare. The scorpions on this list are all buthids, all have significant venom and require caution. On the hobby's 1 - 5 rating system, this roughly represents level 3. A whack by these is going to be unpleasant, and a possible hospital trip...but FAAAR less grim than the A.a. They're serious scorpions, but without the feeling of doing acrobatics without a safety net: they are serious, but survivable. And most of these, I think you'll agree, are quite pretty too   Thanks for making a better decision!!


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## P.jasonius (Apr 29, 2008)

electrophyste said:


> well it turns out  i cant get it for a month or so  which is good that way I can have it set up and everything. Read up on there behavior a bit more.
> 
> I'm super excited.
> I also one day hope to own an  Androctonus crassicauda they are the species that actually made me like the fat tail scorpion


That was my second scorpion!  Which brings up my point, it's a matter of maturity and willingness to research.  I never had any close calls, because, quite frankly, I was afraid of the thing.  I suppose I would rather state I simply respected it, but the days of shame for me are gone, lol.  But, as far as owning one, as the saying goes: "if you have to ask..."


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## Sathane (Mar 5, 2019)

GartenSpinnen said:


> I cant help but think with the type of mentality of "oh you have owned fairly harmless scorpions for a year? Well if you REALLY want that species that is potentially deadly go for it" this hobby is going to be history in a matter of time. If it came down to someone being stupid enough to go out and just get something like A. australis when they have no business doing so and getting tagged and dying i wouldnt feel any remorse for them and probably wouldnt care either way. However, seeing how my life revolves around this hobby and the fact that it only takes 1 moron and a bunch of media attention to ruin it, it bothers me a bit to no end...
> 
> When dealing with venomous animals be it scorpions, spiders, snakes, etc. experience is a MUST. You gain experience by keeping them for a long period of time and keeping different types of species to learn how each of them reacts and how to react to a situation might it arise. Matter in fact i don't even think people should own any of these animals just because they "look cool". Have you been keeping different species of scorpions and studying them for a long period of time, and kept species that are highly defensive with moderate to slightly higher venom and would like to get an A. australis? Go for it. Are you doing studies on hot species for the purpose of bettering the world? Fine. Oh, you think that A. australis looks "cool" and you want one? Um.... no.
> 
> ...


I actually love comments like this because they drip with self righteousness and pomp.  
Who is to say when another person is "ready" for any particular species? Time? I've known hobbyists that where still clumsy and very flippant about their husbandry and they'd been doing it for years.  I've also known other hobbyists that were meticulous and OCD about their safety and care right out of the gate.

The best part is the suggestion that no one should own a species because of visual appeal.  Show of hands - How many of you out there have never wanted an invert simply because you thought it looked cool, and how many of you only purchase animals you intend to do in-depth scientific study on "to better the world"?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Dry Desert (Mar 5, 2019)

Sathane said:


> I actually love comments like this because they drip with self righteousness and pomp.
> Who is to say when another person is "ready" for any particular species? Time? I've known hobbyists that where still clumsy and very flippant about their husbandry and they'd been doing it for years.  I've also known other hobbyists that were meticulous and OCD about their safety and care right out of the gate.
> 
> The best part is the suggestion that no one should own a species because of visual appeal.  Show of hands - How many of you out there have never wanted an invert simply because you thought it looked cool, and how many of you only purchase animals you intend to do in-depth scientific study on "to better the world"?


The post you selected is 11 years old and even then the majority of members posting were trying to protect the hobby long term.  

11 years ago social media wasn't what it is today - I can only imagine the damage to the hobby now if someone gets " tagged "  - social media and the press would have a field day. I think the majority of the 2008 posts were just giving sensible advice to someone who was wise enough to accept it, if you read all the posts. 

The comparison between the garter snake and a cobra is very apt, and I can see no difference between that and moving from 0 to 5 ( venom scale ) rated scorpions, unless a great deal of experience has been gained from the ones in between 

Yes, you will always have the people that go straight out and purchase hot scorpions from day one, with little or no scorpion keeping experience - these are the ones that the members are worried about.

Reactions: Agree 1


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