# Haplopelma Lividium



## AlbinoDragon829

Hey, I've been into arachnoculture for a fair amount of time now and I'm finally getting around to more evil species of tarantula.  Soon, I will be purchasing a haplopelma lividium (cobalt blue) and I hear it is a massive burrower. Don't get me wrong, but I do want the T to have almost an exact replica of it's natural habitat...  But I would like to see it more often than most people say cobalt blue's come into vision...  I mean, come on, they are a very good looking species.  But to get to my question, what kind of a burrow should I set up, or what else should I do that would benefit my viewing of the T and it's living both?  :?


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## Alonso99

*hi*

Foam will do the trick


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## Steve Nunn

Hi,
   The best natural steup you could get would be to use a few river rocks (you know, the smooth ones) placed against a corner of the enclosure with a larger flat rock to act as a roof, set up to become the walls of a small cave. Throw peatmoss over the entire thing and scoop out one or two teaspoons of peat from the entrance of the enclosure. It's good at this stage to have the peat damp enough to cling together when lightly pressed.You''ll find the T will locate the beginnings of a burrow and continue to dig the entire area out so that you can view the spider from the outside while it's in it's burrow. It works for a while until the T decides to lay enough web down that you won't see a thing regardless of how hard you try, most of the old worlders are like this. It does work for a while though.

Here's a piccy of a Selenocosmia stirlingi that I bred. These spiders like the exact same setup as far as I'm aware and you'll see she's quite happy.

Cheers,
Steve


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## savian

I have a male and a female and all I ever did was put one of the half logs into a corner and dig out the rest of it.  It is like what Steve said only I use wood not stone.  They will come out at night provided that there is no noise and the lights are dim.  My female is out under those condition.  Good luck with them.


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## chaset

*Wow*

Wow looks like mom really has her legs full there


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## Martin H.

hi,

I keep _Haplopelma lividum_ and Co. in tanks like this:


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## Martin H.

.

fill it 3/2 with garden soil and stick a burrow for her in it:


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## Martin H.

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from time to time you have to clean the burrow front:


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## Martin H.

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when you pre-stick the burrow at the front site of the tank, you can view in the burrow:


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## Martin H.

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and observe her also in the burrow:


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## Martin H.

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for larger species like _Haplopelma schmidti_, _Ornithoctonus sp._ "Vietnam", _Selenocosmia hainana_, _Hysterocrates_ spp., I use glass tanks with 10 x 25 cm and 35 cm high.
On this photo you can see from left to right: _Ornithoctonus sp._ "Vietnam", , _Haplopelma schmidti_ and _Chilobrachys fimbriatus_. Every evening they are sitting at the entrances of their burrows, where you can observe them. =


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## Martin H.

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I use this kind of tank (strait an tall, with holes or a grid at the top and the bottom) for all of my burrowing species.
The wholes/grid at the bottom is for watering and dewatering: about two times a year I put the tanks in the bath tube and fill it with water till the level of the soil in the tanks. I let them for about one hour flooded that the soil can soak with water. While this, the spiders stay in the tanks and somtimes also under water – without any problems.

all the best,
Martin


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## Martin H.

.

btw, in these kind of tanks, where the spiders can burrow that deep, _Haplopelma_ and Co. aren't anymore evil, bad, nasty, aggressive, etc.. If you disturb them, they run down their burrow and keep quite. They only defend themselves and try to bite when you dig them out, but than in my opinion justly. In my opinion these are not aggessive but very defensive species.

regards,
Martin

www.spiderpix.com

Reactions: Like 1


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## Martin H.

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_Haplopelma_ sp. "aureopilosum" mating in such a tank:


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## Immortal_sin

Martin,
thanks for the pics! What a great idea, don't know why I haven't thought of that myself. I am going out and getting some of those containers right away. I have some spiders that I'm just certain would be happier in them!
Holley


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## Martin H.

.

Hello Holley ,



> _Originally posted by Immortal_sin _
> *
> ...What a great idea, ... *


 It's not my idea, I have "stolen" this idea from Volker von Wirth, who is keeping his burrowing (Asian) T's successfully like this since several years now. These kind of tanks have a lot of advantages compared with normal tanks, in my opinion: you can observe the spider; you can check the spider in the chamber at the and of the burrow, because minimum one side of the chamber is at one wall of the tank; the spiders can dig; the humidity is perfect; ...

all the best,
Martin


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## Alonso99

*Hi*

Where did you get the containers?  They look cool


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## kosh

i havent seen those containers anywhere....i wonder if you could do something similar with these Round Kritter Keeper :?


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## Immortal_sin

don't see why not Kosh.
I have only one of them, and I keep my crickets in it. Too high for them to jump out if I get lazy and don't put the lid back on!
I could put them in something else, and experiment with it for my juve C crayshawi
I may just have to do that....


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## Henry Kane

Wow Martin! That is one of the neatest and most organized systems I have seen yet. Thanks for sharing the idea! (Great Idea Volker! )
Have you noticed if any of the harder to acclimate species (like some wild caught Asians for instance) adjust better in a set up like that?

Atrax


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## Martin H.

.

Hi,



> _Originally posted by *Alonso99* _
> 
> Where did you get the containers?  They look cool


the brand is "rotho". I buy them at "Marktkauf" or "Kaufland". But probably other big supermarket chains will have them too.




> _Originally posted by *kosh* _
> 
> i havent seen those containers anywhere....i wonder if you could do something similar with these Round Kritter Keeper :?


You can use any tall container, but I would recommend strait/slim containers (mine are only 10 cm wide). The advantage of a strait container is, that the chamber at the end of the burrow will be at one side of the containers "wall". => you can always look inside the burrow and check the spider. When you take a container with a larger diameter, the spider can built her burrow in the middle of the tank and you will see nothing of her and also can't check her to see if everything is allright.

Try to search for storage containers for noodles, granola, grains, cereals, etc. – these are often slim boxes.




> _Originally posted by *Atrax* _
> 
> Have you noticed if any of the harder to acclimate species (like some wild caught Asians for instance) adjust better in a set up like that?


yep! Spiders gain a lot of the humidity they need by respire. Most Asian spiders come from very humid regions. When you keep them in normal tanks where they can't dig deep, they often don't settle down, are always wandering arround, try to escape, they don't accept an artificial retreat which isn't a deep burrow, when they molt they might get stuck in the exuvia, if they built eggsacks they eat them or the eggsacks drys out and they don't live long. 
In these "Haplopelma-tanks" they can dig a burrow in which the humidity is perfect for them. Like I told above, I water them about twice a year. Since Volker is keeping his Asian tarantulas in these "Haplopelma-tanks" (he is doing this much longer than me) he has more success with keeping them and also breeding them regularely without the above mentioned problems. 
Also wild caught spiders normally will accept the prepared burrow very quick and settle down. So you will have less problems with dehydrated WC asian spiders.

btw, I am also keeping my other burrowing spiders, like _Ephebopus_ spp., _Hysterocrates_ spp., etc. like this.

regards,
Martin
www.spiderpix.com

.


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## Ephesians

I have strongly reinforce Martin's opinion that h. lividums are not aggressive, but defensive.  They are most violent after a molt...for about a month, I'm guessing because they're all fresh and new...ready to whoop some @$$.  Mine will run into its hideout when disturbed, it rarely attacks.  She doesn't even burrow.  She has plenty of room, I don't see why she doesn't.  But I bought a beautiful roughly textured ceramic cave and she just chills in that thing.  She used to burrow to no end until I got that.  She also isn't afraid to show herself, I think she's gotten used to my music and stuff playing, and doesn't mind the vibrations, so long as its not too loud.  She'll come out night or day, the cage top is mostly wrapped in blue seran wrap to allow moisture to keep in the cage, so its pretty shaded in there.  But overall, if you set up everything right and her environment is comfortable...there won't be any problems.  If she does burrow against the side...like everyone else said, you can see her until she webs it up...which is inevitable.  Good luck friend.

Marcus


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## galeogirl

I've been looking for better ways to cage my ts, pet carriers and jars take up so much space once you have a few dozen spiders.  I'm going to give this a try with a few of my burrowers and see how they do.  

Have you tried breeding with this cage setup?


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## Martin H.

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> _Originally posted by galeogirl _
> *
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> Have you tried breeding with this cage setup? *



see:



> _Originally posted by Martin H. _
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## galeogirl

Very nice!  I think my H. albostriatum and H. lividum may be up for a change of address soon.


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## Botar

> _Originally posted by galeogirl _
> *I've been looking for better ways to cage my ts, pet carriers and jars take up so much space once you have a few dozen spiders.  I'm going to give this a try with a few of my burrowers and see how they do.
> 
> *


Galeogirl,

Let me know if you find similar containers.  All I've been able to locate so far are opaque cereal storage containers.

Botar


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## galeogirl

Botar,

I'll let you know.  I went out looking the other day but didn't find anything that I quite liked.  I'm going to try a few other stores out next week.  I'd love to see what my Usambar and my Haplopelmas would do in those containers.


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## AlbinoDragon829

Galeogirl,
          In your last post, I noticed that you have an usumbara.  Are you familiar with sunburst baboon tarantulas?  Usumbaras and sunburst are both from ptero-something (not exactly what the species scientific name is), and I have heard that the sunburst is a phase of the usumbara.  Also, some people classify the sunburst an starbursts as the same?  Is the sunburst a phase of the usumbara?


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## Code Monkey

> _Originally posted by AlbinoDragon829 _
> *Galeogirl,
> In your last post, I noticed that you have an usumbara.  Are you familiar with sunburst baboon tarantulas?  Usumbaras and sunburst are both from ptero-something (not exactly what the species scientific name is), and I have heard that the sunburst is a phase of the usumbara.  Also, some people classify the sunburst an starbursts as the same?  Is the sunburst a phase of the usumbara? *


Not quite right. Usambara (or Usumbara depending on who's doing the typing - need to check a Atlas) is a sunburst baboon... Different common names for the same exact spider. It is a Pterinochilus species and is more or less officially declared to be a color phase of P. murinus, however there is some dissent on that pigeon holing. Rick West lists it as a color variant on his web page for what that is worth to you.

EDIT: To clarify, there is no such thing as an Usambara as a species. By anyone who identified to a species, it has always been a color variant of P. murinus. Some people have basically decided on their own they didn't like lumping the bitey orange things with the rather drab P. murinus, so it has often been listed as just "Pterinochius species (Usambara)". I don't know of any good reasons for this, however;  if anyone knows of a justification, hey, I'd like to know


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## AlbinoDragon829

> _Originally posted by Code Monkey _
> *Not quite right. Usambara (or Usumbara depending on who's doing the typing - need to check a Atlas) is a sunburst baboon... Different common names for the same exact spider. It is a Pterinochilus species and is more or less officially declared to be a color phase of P. murinus, however there is some dissent on that pigeon holing.
> *


Thanks!  Very helpful info.  Do you know at what point of the T's life that it is in this phase (beginning or later on)?


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## LaRiz

*Usambura*

Usambura is a region in Africa where a species of Pterinochilus is found.  It seems that, at first, this species was thought to be a color form of Pterinochilus murinus, or perhaps a subspecies.
Some suspect that it may be a totally different species.  That's still in the works, from what I understand.  Pterinochilus species "Usambura" are noted to be a smaller than that of P. murinus, more opportunistic in choosing den sites and, of course, a splendid orange coloration.  I have a friend that has an adult female that chose to live an arboreal lifestyle.
Hope this clears it up alittle.
john


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## AlbinoDragon829

*Re: Usambura*



> _Originally posted by LaRiz _
> *Usambura is a region in Africa where a species of Pterinochilus is found.  It seems that, at first, this species was thought to be a color form of Pterinochilus murinus, or perhaps a subspecies.
> Some suspect that it may be a totally different species.  That's still in the works, from what I understand.  Pterinochilus species "Usambura" are noted to be a smaller than that of P. murinus, more opportunistic in choosing den sites and, of course, a splendid orange coloration.  I have a friend that has an adult female that chose to live an arboreal lifestyle.
> Hope this clears it up alittle.
> john *


Yeah, that does clear up a few things, but I wonder why there is so much controversy about it.. So you're saying that the "sunbursts" are bigger than the "usumbaras"?  From your description in the above quote, I gather that a sunburst would be a better choice perhaps?  Any elaboration on that point?


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## krucz36

john: Pterinochilus murinus is the "mombassa starburst", right? 
personally, from the animals i've run into, you're lucky if you can tell most pterinochilus apart. unless you've got an electron microscope and know what you're looking for. i've got the P. meridionalis and P. murinius...and an H. maculata that looks reall really similar to the rest of them...sigh


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## Code Monkey

> _Originally posted by AlbinoDragon829 _
> *Thanks!  Very helpful info.  Do you know at what point of the T's life that it is in this phase (beginning or later on)? *


When you hear 'phase', they're not talking 'phases of the moon' kind of phase, but rather like blondes or brunettes, or black and white people - it's a genetically determined color phase (or morph). In this case, from the Usambara Mountain range. As with many animals, it's not uncommon for geographically separated groups to have inconsequential differences like coloration but they are still the same species.


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## Code Monkey

*Re: Re: Usambura*



> _Originally posted by AlbinoDragon829 _
> *Yeah, that does clear up a few things, but I wonder why there is so much controversy about it.. So you're saying that the "sunbursts" are bigger than the "usumbaras"?  From your description in the above quote, I gather that a sunburst would be a better choice perhaps?  Any elaboration on that point? *


Actually, probably not because they're harder to find - the standard P. murinus is kind of a dull sandy color. Hence, the pet trade is filled with the bright orange bitey ones and not so many of the dull tan bitey ones. Different species or not, their care and habit is the same, so might as well get the better looking one


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## krucz36

Hell, CM, any of 'em are bitey if you treat 'em right. just like a woman!
ack, i didn't say that.


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## AlbinoDragon829

*P. Murinus*

Allright, well I am considering buying a P. Murinus soon, but after long research and the like on the internet, I haven't found any suitable SPECIFIC information on their care and setup of their cage.  All I hear is set it up just like this or just like that, so how do you recommend that I set P. Murinus' cage up and what kinds of things should I put in it's cage?


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## krucz36

here's a caresheet tho of course they have their own ideas. personally don't care much for vermiculite, but some folk like it!
of course, there's one resource yer kind of overlooking...arachnopets!
here's scott's caresheet. if you notice, they prescribe a low, wide enclosure, moderate heat, moderate humidity, and a diggable substrate, with standard invert prey. i'd wager that a Pterinochilus of any variety is something you'd want to keep your little tootsies clear of, too. 
hope that helps, AD


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## AlbinoDragon829

The first caresheet was helpful.  I had already read the one on arachnopets, but I like the first one you gave better.


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## krucz36

ahh! turncoat! 
heh heh
arachnophiliac.com has some good stuff too. 
we should kidnap wade and force him to write encyclopedic caresheets for every animal in the world. 
i've got some rope, anyone got an old Dodge van we can use?

*evil grin*


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## King_Looey

Im up for it. Email me with the plan.


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## krucz36

okay, just on't let anyone else see it...it's a masterwork.
if you can't tell, that's a nylon over my head in Figure 2.


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## AlbinoDragon829

> _Originally posted by krucz36 _
> *ahh! turncoat!
> heh heh
> arachnophiliac.com has some good stuff too.
> we should kidnap wade and force him to write encyclopedic caresheets for every animal in the world.
> i've got some rope, anyone got an old Dodge van we can use?
> 
> *evil grin* *


The funny part about it all is that I do drive a kind of old dodge van...  lol.  We're part way there


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## Immortal_sin

ok...for caring for my Usambaras..I keep them on bone dry peat moss, large water dish, full ventilation, and about 1/2 substrate to the top of the enclosure. Mine can't decide whether she is arboreal or not, she cleans house about every 6 months and switches locations!
She is the one that just had the babies.
The other female is a burrow all the way. She is currently in a state of matrimonial bliss, sharing her burrow with the male. At night, they like to hang out upside down hanging from the underside of the lid.


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## Weapon-X

*re*

those have to be some of the most awesome setups i've ever seen for burrowers, now i'll be on the look out for some containers for one for my camaroon red and one for my 8 inch king baboon, by the way would you recomend any certain size for the larger species like king baboons and goliath birdeaters, i cannot say how impressing those setups are!;P =D ;P


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## AlbinoDragon829

> _Originally posted by Immortal_sin _
> *ok...for caring for my Usambaras..I keep them on bone dry peat moss, large water dish, full ventilation, and about 1/2 substrate to the top of the enclosure. Mine can't decide whether she is arboreal or not, she cleans house about every 6 months and switches locations!
> She is the one that just had the babies.
> The other female is a burrow all the way. She is currently in a state of matrimonial bliss, sharing her burrow with the male. At night, they like to hang out upside down hanging from the underside of the lid. *


That's neat.  So the top for the cage has full ventilation?  Hmm..  Never considered that.  How do you heat the usumbara's tank? (or do you at all)


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## MrDeranged

I don't heat mine at all.  They're just fine at room temperature.  Well, as long as RT is between 70 and 85   Normally in my house it's in the upper 70's for most of the day.

Scott


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## Wade

> _Originally posted by krucz36 _
> *okay, just on't let anyone else see it...it's a masterwork.
> if you can't tell, that's a nylon over my head in Figure 2. *



Wow, we can always count on Garth for a quick and amusing graphic!  I'm not sure weather to be flattered or frightened  but since I know MY dodge van wouldn't make it accross the country, I'm not too worried    I notice King Looey was more than willing to jump in and help with violence.  Lucky for me, he's in England. Whew! 

I pretty much keep mine exactly how Holley described.  These are tough little critters, I wouldn't be surprised if they'd do fine in a dry cage without substrate and without a water bowl! (mine do have those ameneties, however). 

On the name confusion issue, I'd like to squeeze in a little plug for the ATS.  The American Arachnological Society (different group) has a committee that compiles an "official" common names list for Arachnids. This list is available as a free download at atshq.org and the tarantula and scorpion portion is printed in each issue of the Forum magazine. The idea of an official common name may seem silly to many folks, but it would be helpful if we were all using the same names!  Also, common names aren't dominated by the sometimes complex rules of scietific names, so they should stay the same during the various taxonomic upheavals the scientific ones go through.

The official common name for P. murinus is Mombasa golden starburst tarantula. They generally avoid generic and confusing names like "baboon", the only common name that has that word is "king baboon tarantula". The list doesn't include ALL the tarantulas in the trade, but most of the common ones are there. The AAS doesn't assign common names to tarantulas that are rare or of dubious taxonomy.  At present, "Usambara" is sort of in limbo.  It can't have an official common name until it has an official scientific one.     

Richard Gallon is the taxonomist who working on revising Pterinochilus, and it's supposed to be published soon.  Word in the street has it that "Usambara" will turn out to be a color morph of P. murinus, and many dealers are already calling them this on their pricelists. I've heard that there's some rumblings of disagreement about this decision however. Some say that the golden and red morphs cannot be bred together, indicating different species.  I don't know if there's any truth to this however.

Wade


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## krucz36

did i tell you? wade rocks.
i promise never to plot to kidnap you again. though, as you can tell by my plan, you're probably safe either way...


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## AlbinoDragon829

> _Originally posted by Wade _
> *Wow, we can always count on Garth for a quick and amusing graphic!  I'm not sure weather to be flattered or frightened  but since I know MY dodge van wouldn't make it accross the country, I'm not too worried    I notice King Looey was more than willing to jump in and help with violence.  Lucky for me, he's in England. Whew!
> 
> I pretty much keep mine exactly how Holley described.  These are tough little critters, I wouldn't be surprised if they'd do fine in a dry cage without substrate and without a water bowl! (mine do have those ameneties, however).
> 
> On the name confusion issue, I'd like to squeeze in a little plug for the ATS.  The American Arachnological Society (different group) has a committee that compiles an "official" common names list for Arachnids. This list is available as a free download at atshq.org and the tarantula and scorpion portion is printed in each issue of the Forum magazine. The idea of an official common name may seem silly to many folks, but it would be helpful if we were all using the same names!  Also, common names aren't dominated by the sometimes complex rules of scietific names, so they should stay the same during the various taxonomic upheavals the scientific ones go through.
> 
> The official common name for P. murinus is Mombasa golden starburst tarantula. They generally avoid generic and confusing names like "baboon", the only common name that has that word is "king baboon tarantula". The list doesn't include ALL the tarantulas in the trade, but most of the common ones are there. The AAS doesn't assign common names to tarantulas that are rare or of dubious taxonomy.  At present, "Usambara" is sort of in limbo.  It can't have an official common name until it has an official scientific one.
> 
> Richard Gallon is the taxonomist who working on revising Pterinochilus, and it's supposed to be published soon.  Word in the street has it that "Usambara" will turn out to be a color morph of P. murinus, and many dealers are already calling them this on their pricelists. I've heard that there's some rumblings of disagreement about this decision however. Some say that the golden and red morphs cannot be bred together, indicating different species.  I don't know if there's any truth to this however.
> 
> Wade *


Holy sh*t dude, your info kicks major ass.  Keep up the good work!  I can see why you are up for kidnapping!


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## Theraphosid Research Team

> _Originally posted by Wade _
> *Richard Gallon is the taxonomist who working on revising Pterinochilus, and it's supposed to be published soon.  Word in the street has it that "Usambara" will turn out to be a color morph of P. murinus, and many dealers are already calling them this on their pricelists. I've heard that there's some rumblings of disagreement about this decision however. Some say that the golden and red morphs cannot be bred together, indicating different species.  I don't know if there's any truth to this however.
> *


Hi,

Richard Gallon published his Revision about the Genus Pterinochilus and Eucratoscelus before some Weeks ago. The Reference is: 
*Gallon, R. *(2002): Revision of the african genera _Pterinochilus_ and _Eucratoscelus_ (Aranea, Theraphosidae, Harpactirinae) with description of two new genera. _Bull. Br. arachnol. Soc. _12, (5): 201 - 232

Within this Revision, Richard synonymised _Pterinochilus mamillatus_ with _Pterinochilus murinus_.My "special" friend Dr. Schmidt "identified" the "usambara" as belonging to the Species _Pterinochilus mamillatus_, a species which was described by the german arachnologist Embrik Strand in 1906. Unfortunately the Holotype of this Species was destroyed during the second world war,so we only have the very bad original description.For Schmidt, this original description was so good :-(, that he recognised the "usambara" as being a member of the _Pterinochlius mamillatus_  Species.Now, Richard compared the "usambara" with the Holotype-Material of _Pt. murinus_ for his Revision and he only recognised differences within the coloration of both form.The logical consequence was to synonymise both "Species".
BTW, I haven't heard of any breeding experiments between both color-types!

Cheers,    Volker


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## AlbinoDragon829

I put some time into searching for pterinochilus mamillatus, and interestingly enough I was only found german sites.  I was only able to understand a little bit of it, and all of the info was controdicting and rather confusing.  Like why would an usumbara be found in south africa or madagascar?!?  I also found lots of other german sites on other pterinochilus species I hadn't heard of yet, and got info that said they could be found in the southern united states and another site that says you can only find them in the Czech Republic..  hmmm...?  lol.


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## krucz36

yeah, if you're not careful you can get bit by pterinochilus in the woodpile out here in california. 
heh


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## AlbinoDragon829

> _Originally posted by krucz36 _
> *yeah, if you're not careful you can get bit by pterinochilus in the woodpile out here in california.
> heh *


If it was a close encounter, I wouldn't mind as long as I could safely capture it


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## conipto

*Just a thought..*

I'm not ready to be housing Halpopelma and the like quite yet, but with a burrow that deep and straight, do you worry about them falling down it at all?  Also, for those of you having difficulty finding these containers, wouldn't it be fairly easy to make them yourselves?  

Bill


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## atavuss

> _Originally posted by Martin H. _
> *hi,
> 
> I keep Haplopelma lividum and Co. in tanks like this: *


Martin, what brand of containers are those?  what are you making the ventilation holes with?  and why the holes at the bottom, do you have the containers in another container to catch any moisture runoff from the bottom holes?
Ed


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## atavuss

> _Originally posted by galeogirl _
> *I've been looking for better ways to cage my ts, pet carriers and jars take up so much space once you have a few dozen spiders.  I'm going to give this a try with a few of my burrowers and see how they do.
> 
> *


Galeogirl, I use mostly kritter keepers because they are stackable, I have them two and three high on shelving.....BTW, nice avatar pic!
Ed


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## Unregistered

*Re: Just a thought..*



> _Originally posted by conipto _
> *I'm not ready to be housing Halpopelma and the like quite yet, but with a burrow that deep and straight, do you worry about them falling down it at all?  Also, for those of you having difficulty finding these containers, wouldn't it be fairly easy to make them yourselves?
> 
> Bill *


No, there isn't much worry about them falling down.  And it would be fairly easy to make the "haplopelma tanks" ourselves, but we're too lazy. (or at least I am  )


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## Martin H.

.

Hello Ed,



> _Originally posted by *atavuss* _
> 
> Martin, what brand of containers are those?





> _Originally posted by *Martin H.* on 10-01-2002 08:38 AM_
> 
> the brand is "rotho". I buy them at "Marktkauf" or "Kaufland". But probably other big supermarket chains will have them too.
> 
> You can use any tall container, but I would recommend strait/slim containers (mine are only 10 cm wide). The advantage of a strait container is, that the chamber at the end of the burrow will be at one side of the containers "wall". => you can always look inside the burrow and check the spider. When you take a container with a larger diameter, the spider can built her burrow in the middle of the tank and you will see nothing of her and also can't check her to see if everything is allright.
> 
> Try to search for storage containers for noodles, granola, grains, cereals, etc. – these are often slim boxes.


 



> _Originally posted by *atavuss* _
> 
> what are you making the ventilation holes with?


with a soldering iron




> _Originally posted by *atavuss* _
> 
> and why the holes at the bottom, do you have the containers in another container to catch any moisture runoff from the bottom holes?





> _Originally posted by *Martin H*. on 09-30-2002 02:58 PM _
> 
> I use this kind of tank (strait an tall, with holes or a grid at the top and the botton) for all of my burrowing species.
> The wholes/grid at the bottom is for watering and dewatering: about two times a year I put the tanks in the bath tube and fill it with water till the level of the soil in the tanks. I let them for about one hour flooded that the soil can soak with water. While this, the spiders stay in the tanks and somtimes also under water – without any problems.


only in the first days after watering the tanks, a little bit of water is dripping out of the holes (put them on old newspaper). After one or two weeks, no more water is coming out.

regards,
Martin


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## Martin H.

.




> _Originally posted by *atavuss* _
> 
> what are you making the ventilation holes with?


with a soldering iron


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## AlbinoDragon829

*Re: Re: Just a thought..*



> _Originally posted by Unregistered _
> *No, there isn't much worry about them falling down.  And it would be fairly easy to make the "haplopelma tanks" ourselves, but we're too lazy. (or at least I am  ) *


I feel like an idiot, I forgot to sign that post in.  (The quote is mine) :8o


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## atavuss

Martin, thanks for the info.......I usually drill 3/16" holes for ventilation but some plastics will crack and or break.  I will have to purchase a soldering iron and try that out.
Ed


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## phoenixxavierre

> _Originally posted by Botar _
> *Galeogirl,
> 
> Let me know if you find similar containers.  All I've been able to locate so far are opaque cereal storage containers.
> 
> Botar *


Botar,

You can find 1 gallon containers and larger at Wal Mart for $3 and up (or less depending on the size you need). 
I believe they are in the housewares section on the top shelf where the plastic rubbermaid shoeboxes are. 
Hope that helps,

Paul


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## Pyrdacor

Just found that topic and got a nice idea. Guess everybody knows that H. lividum IS a burrower. The idea from Martin Huber i regard as very good. But i give my Ts more space to live, even if they may not need it. What you can do is filling in the tank with subrate after putting in one of those long an small clown and trick balloons. Its is possible to form the "cave" the way you want, for example on the front side, so you can see inside. You put the subsrate over it and press it a bit. When you are finished you sting into the ballon with a needle and destroy it.
I found two pics in the Internet to explain


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## Dean W

as far as those containers go, here in canada, well, at least where i live, we have a store called "storage works" which specializes in things like those. Containers to stay oganized, of all shapes and sizes, as well as colors and opacities. Im sure there is an American Equivilant of storage works somewhere.


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## Ephesians

I've been looking all over and have not been able to find decent sized tubbaware or storage containers that are clear enough.  All I can find is the same dadgum foggy crap...hehe.  I dun like it a beet!  Oh well, back to the drawing board.  BTW, good idea Pyrdacor.  If I had the lungs to blow one of those things up I'd certainly give it a try!  

Marcus


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## deifiler

sweet!

with my h.lividum i did the following:

1) glass tank, fill with peat+vermiculite mix
2) in the corner, dig 5cm tunnel, then put half a plant pot over this
3) cover the entire tank at this corner with thick, black card
4) insert spider
5) after a week she adopted the burrow, then a week later dug deeper and around
6) remove card to see

as it happens she has an egg sac now and has sealed the whole burrow. 

once the egg hatches im moving her to a smaller tank though


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## Weapon-X

*re*

so anyone find containers like the ones martin has, and if you have please share


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## nocturnalpulsem

*Re: Just a thought..*



> _Originally posted by conipto _
> *I'm not ready to be housing Halpopelma and the like quite yet, but with a burrow that deep and straight, do you worry about them falling down it at all?
> 
> Bill *


You know, Bill, I tried doing that when I replaced the substrate in my seemanni's tank and she _did_ fall into it. I freaked, and she wasn't too happy, either. I had to try and get her out, and she was all bitey (which was the first time she was ever defensive at all). 

After that I took her out, and buried half a flowerpot and dug it out like a cave. That works out better, actually, because now she has this massive cave that I can watch her in. Pics soon, hopefully.

N.


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## MizM

> _Originally posted by galeogirl _
> *Botar,
> 
> I'll let you know.  I went out looking the other day but didn't find anything that I quite liked.  I'm going to try a few other stores out next week.  I'd love to see what my Usambar and my Haplopelmas would do in those containers. *


Check the quart size containter here:
http://www.spicebarn.com/spice_jars_labels.htm


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## MizM

> _Originally posted by VolkervonWirth _
> *Hi,
> 
> Richard Gallon published his Revision about the Genus Pterinochilus and Eucratoscelus before some Weeks ago. The Reference is:
> Gallon, R. (2002): Revision of the african genera Pterinochilus and Eucratoscelus (Aranea, Theraphosidae, Harpactirinae) with description of two new genera. Bull. Br. arachnol. Soc. 12, (5): 201 - 232
> 
> Within this Revision, Richard synonymised Pterinochilus mamillatus with Pterinochilus murinus.My "special" friend Dr. Schmidt "identified" the "usambara" as belonging to the Species Pterinochilus mamillatus, a species which was described by the german arachnologist Embrik Strand in 1906. Unfortunately the Holotype of this Species was destroyed during the second world war,so we only have the very bad original description.For Schmidt, this original description was so good :-(, that he recognised the "usambara" as being a member of the Pterinochlius mamillatus  Species.Now, Richard compared the "usambara" with the Holotype-Material of Pt. murinus for his Revision and he only recognised differences within the coloration of both form.The logical consequence was to synonymise both "Species".
> BTW, I haven't heard of any breeding experiments between both color-types!
> 
> Cheers,    Volker *


I had actually heard this, so couldn't wait to put my male "usambara" in with my female "mombassa." So far, nothing, she ignores him and he scurries back to his burrow. But, I'm going to keep trying. I always thought they were EXACTLY the same except for the color. The markings, and I have studied them endlessly, are nearly exact!


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## Weapon-X

*re*

i love this thread! now if i could only find some containers like those or similar, i have searched for 3 days once online , i even checked rotho.com but its a german company, Has anyone here had any lucK?????? i am considering a way to just build my own haplopelma tanks, suggestions on materials and construction? i was thinking of building the frame then using acrylic or plexiglass, who knows any help appreciated--Jeff


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## MizM

AGAIN.... 
Sorry if u missed it the first time, that's why I made it BIG!! 



> _Originally posted by MizM _
> *Check the quart size containter here:
> http://www.spicebarn.com/spice_jars_labels.htm *


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## Weapon-X

*re*

thanks, i never even notice lol even though i skim through this thread all the time, heh guess i should have read closer, i'll check that link out , thanks--Jeff


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## Weapon-X

*re*

thanks for the link, but i think those are to small for adults, i did find tupperware cereal storers, h x 11 .5" w x 5-6" l x 11" but alas again they are not clear enough...maybe i can improvise them somewhat


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## MizM

After reading this thread, I just HAD to go home and try it! Stopped at "Super 99¢ Store" and found 5 clear round plastic containers, 8" tall and 6" wide with screw on tops. Whipped out my handy Dremel and drilled ventilation holes, packed it with substrate and put my "toughest customer" in it. My H. lividium took 5 months to burrow after I got her. Same substrate, same height, she was just stubborn. I put her in the new vertical enclosure last night, and by this morning, she has webbed it to her liking, pulling the little silk leaves around the top, and was snug as a bug in her new burrow!

Tonight, the rest of my obligate burrowers go into THEIR new homes, thus making enclosures available for MORE NEW Ts!!! 

Thanks guys!


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## Weapon-X

*re*

well i recently asked a guy who builds tanks for a living(Paul august) if he could build me the haplopelma tanks, he will build them to the exact measurements , but not with metal lids he'll use all acrylic construction, they are 35.00 ea. plus shipping, or 10 for 35.00 ea. w/free shipping, pretty cool....wonder how uch it would cost to just build them myself, though 35 is'nt all that bad at all.


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## Martin H.

Hi,

one of my Haplopelma-tanks (25 x 10 x 35 cm) inhabited by an _Haplopelma schmidti_ female:









all the best,
Martin


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## Martin H.

Hi,

and the modified cereal-storage-container version for the smaller species like _Haplopelma lividum_:









all the best,
Martin


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## sansoucie

LOVE this thread guys! Also, I have a few Q's :

Are cedar shavings bad for t's? My Usambara wouldn't burrow and generally sat atop the substrate looking po'd. I put some cedar shavings in there to see what it would do with them and by the next morning he/she made an above ground burrow... looks like a hobbithole  Web and cedar shavings then threw substrate over top of all of that. retty industrious! ALSO, it had made a kind of hammock in one corner that at night (if I sneak in here and leave the light off) It's sitting in that hammock with it's legs hanging down... do any of yours do this and ifso, what's the purpose if any?

My T is small, orange and MEAN.... so I am guessing this is the Usambara and not the Mombassa because of the size? It was labeled Usambara and the pothers were labeled Mombassa Starburst. I chose this one because it was vibrantly orange.


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## Socrates

sansoucie said:
			
		

> I have a few Q's :
> 
> Are cedar shavings bad for t's? .


YES, THEY ARE.  *The natural oils in cedars and other pines are poisonous for your T.*

Just do a quick search for "cedar" and you'll see.


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## sansoucie

Mannn, now I have to stick my hand in that enclosure??
light a candle for me, I'm goin in....


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## sansoucie

That wasn't as bad as I thought! He/she is in it's new nome and checking it out.


MizM said: 

I had actually heard this, so couldn't wait to put my male "usambara" in with my female "mombassa." So far, nothing, she ignores him and he scurries back to his burrow. But, I'm going to keep trying. I always thought they were EXACTLY the same except for the color. The markings, and I have studied them endlessly, are nearly exact!


Do you have a pic of them together? I'd like to see the difference in color.


----------



## Martin H.

Hi,



			
				Botar said:
			
		

> Let me know if you find similar containers.  All I've been able to locate so far are opaque cereal storage containers.


I just came across www.thecontainerstore.com which offer some tall storage boxes: >>click here<<

all the best,
Martin


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## ahkiu

hi martin, 

apart from your twice yearly dipping of the t's container in the bath, do you do any additional watering to maintain humiditiy? or was the 2 times in the bath sufficient?


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## Martin H.

Hi ahkiu,


			
				ahkiu said:
			
		

> apart from your twice yearly dipping of the t's container in the bath, do you do any additional watering to maintain humiditiy? or was the 2 times in the bath sufficient?


that's sufficent (depending on the lid [how many holes], the volumen of the tanks [= smaller volume and you might have two watering them three times a year] and the relative air humidity in the area where you live).


BTW, a more detailed description how I keep my Haplopelma species and other burrowers you'll find in these articles:  
 VON WIRTH, V. & M. HUBER (2002): Einige Praxis-Tipps zur Haltung von Haplopelma Arten und anderen Röhren bewohnenden Vogelspinnen. _DeArGe Mitteilungen_ 7(11): 14-23.
(BTW, a translated version of this article about keeping Haplopelma- and other burrowing-species will be printed in the August issue of the BTS Journal)
 VON WIRTH, V. & M. HUBER (2003): Earth Tigers – die asiatischen Vogelspinnen der Unterfamilie Ornithoctoninae. _DRACO_ 4(16): 26-36.
all the best,
Martin


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## jesses

AlbinoDragon829 said:
			
		

> Hey, I've been into arachnoculture for a fair amount of time now and I'm finally getting around to more evil species of tarantula.  Soon, I will be purchasing a haplopelma lividium (cobalt blue) and I hear it is a massive burrower. Don't get me wrong, but I do want the T to have almost an exact replica of it's natural habitat...  But I would like to see it more often than most people say cobalt blue's come into vision...  I mean, come on, they are a very good looking species.  But to get to my question, what kind of a burrow should I set up, or what else should I do that would benefit my viewing of the T and it's living both?  :?


There are no evil species of tarantula


----------



## Lyle Beach

Martin:  In post #78....  I am wondering, with so much substrate above the T...  do you ever worry about a collapse?  Seems that the heavy substrate would crush the T?


----------



## Martin H.

Lyle Beach said:
			
		

> Martin:  In post #78....  I am wondering, with so much substrate above the T...  do you ever worry about a collapse?  Seems that the heavy substrate would crush the T?


that never happend to me respectively to any of my theraphosids so far.

all the best,
Martin


----------



## Martin H.

Hi,



			
				Martin H. said:
			
		

> BTW, a translated version of this article about keeping Haplopelma- and other burrowing-species will be printed in the August issue of the BTS Journal


finally it's available now: 
 VON WIRTH, V. & M. HUBER (2004): Housing specimens of Haplopelma and other tube-dwelling tarantulas. _British Tarantula Society Journal_ 19(4): 107-113.
Those who don't know the British Tarantula Society yet: >>click here<<

all the best,
Martin


----------



## JimBaskey

Wow, great pics, Martin. I really like your setup idea. Just wondering, where can you buy those containers you have?


----------



## Martin H.

Hi Jim,



			
				JimBaskey said:
			
		

> Wow, great pics, Martin. I really like your setup idea. Just wondering, where can you buy those containers you have?


the cereal storage containers are bought in the supermarket, the glass tanks are custom made.

...just got a new bunch of these tanks today. =









all the best,
Martin


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## Martin H.

Hi,

some tanks for the smaller species (like H. lividum & Co.): 10 cm x 25 cm and 30 cm high








all the best,
Martin


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## bloodred1889

ok so they are custom made... by who, how do i get some, how much?
also can i get them sent to england?


----------

