# M.balfouri communal set ups?



## EmilzHernandez (Sep 8, 2017)

So I had a massive stroke of luck earlier in the week. I was planning on buying a female M._balfouri_ from Fear Not Tarantulas, and upon talking with Tanya, I ended up with a communal instead! I have 5 3/4" inch slings that'll arrive next Tuesday. With this in mind, I've begun setting up an enclosure for the babies. I have a 16 oz deli cup, which I plan on using. With this in mind, what are musts for a proper communal? I haven't found much on water, would just one bottle cap be ok? I plan on feeding them tiny crickets and crushed mealworms. Any suggestions on what to do with the enclosure? Also if those of you with M_.balfouri _communals could post your initial enclosure for them when they were slings, it would be most helpful. 

Thanks!

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## KezyGLA (Sep 8, 2017)

They are from arid lands. One dish with a little overflowing will do. Fill when necessary.  

I have had 15 or so in this Braplast 5L since they were around 2cm. They are now 4cm roughly.  





I keep 7 sub and adults in a bigger enclosure but they are all underground atm apart from MM

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## EmilzHernandez (Sep 8, 2017)

@KezyGLA thanks so much! Here's what I came up with, what do you think?


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## miss moxie (Sep 8, 2017)

You'll probably have to rehouse pretty soon. With these guys, I would definitely err on the side of "too" big. It cuts down on your rehousing which is MUCH more difficult with communals. I've never had one personally but I've seen two M. balfouri communal rehousing videos and both looked really not-fun even though they were done by people with lots of experience. (The Dark Den & Tom Moran of Tom's Big Spiders)

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## MacDrachma (Sep 8, 2017)

I also have a setup and rehoused lately!


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## EmilzHernandez (Sep 8, 2017)

MacDrachma said:


> I also have a setup and rehoused lately!


Hey, I'm a big fan of your channel! Thanks for the response, I'll see if I can find anything like that! Unfortunately I keep most of my T's in delis,  so I don't have anything quite like that, but I'll look for something like it! Thanks!!


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## EmilzHernandez (Sep 8, 2017)

miss moxie said:


> You'll probably have to rehouse pretty soon. With these guys, I would definitely err on the side of "too" big. It cuts down on your rehousing which is MUCH more difficult with communals. I've never had one personally but I've seen two M. balfouri communal rehousing videos and both looked really not-fun even though they were done by people with lots of experience. (The Dark Den & Tom Moran of Tom's Big Spiders)


Thanks so much! I had seen Petko's video the other day, and that's basically why I started this thread. I for sure want to avoid that situation best I can


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## MacDrachma (Sep 8, 2017)

EmilzHernandez said:


> Hey, I'm a big fan of your channel! Thanks for the response, I'll see if I can find anything like that! Unfortunately I keep most of my T's in delis,  so I don't have anything quite like that, but I'll look for something like it! Thanks!!



Hey thanks! You can use anything that is deep enough. I usually go pretty bare in mine since they tend to pick one spot to burrow and then web everything else.


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## miss moxie (Sep 9, 2017)

Then yeah, I'd give them room to grow to make it easier on yourself. I heard they typically stick together so when one finds food, they all find food. Shouldn't have to worry about there not being enough prey-interaction. You could try DIYing a display case? I just did quite a few for my M. balfouri juveniles (housing separately) and Pamphobeteus slings.







These are _about_ 5"x5"x5.5" and I got them from Amazon. Four for $14.99, free shipping if you've access to prime or someone with prime.


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## MacDrachma (Sep 9, 2017)

I had mine in a softball display case before I put them into the custom one.


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## viper69 (Sep 9, 2017)

EmilzHernandez said:


> what are musts for a proper communal?


In point of fact no one really knows because there are few scientific papers describing T life in the wild beyond taxonomy, let alone any observed social behavior with conspecifics that was beyond mating.

As a community most believe, and have had better success with slings from the same sac. Have you checked to see if they are from the same sac? If they aren't, you MAY end up with only 1 T.

As for M. balfouri, many communals have been successfully kept. What no one knows is if they are communal on Socotra Island or not. Captivity can induce all sorts of unnatural behavior in animals when they are forced to live in a box.


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## EmilzHernandez (Sep 9, 2017)

@miss moxie do you think I can keep them in the habitat I made for a week? I need to gather some cash so I can get one of the Inspeclaser ones. @viper69 I believe they are from the same sac. I know they're currently living together and from what I understood, always have been. And are there any species where communals have been seen in the wild?


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## EmilzHernandez (Sep 9, 2017)

@miss moxie I would make one myself, but I'm not the best with drills and I am always scared of making a mistake that could subsequently hurt the T. I need to work on my anxieties, because I want my animals to have the BEST lives I can offer them


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## KezyGLA (Sep 9, 2017)

It is fine for a couple molts. They do better when living on top of each other. When they have more space they tend to have disagreements.

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## Haksilence (Sep 9, 2017)

EmilzHernandez said:


> @miss moxie do you think I can keep them in the habitat I made for a week? I need to gather some cash so I can get one of the Inspeclaser ones. @viper69 I believe they are from the same sac. I know they're currently living together and from what I understood, always have been. And are there any species where communals have been seen in the wild?


I've read reports of P subfusca and H incei reportedly being seen together in the wild. But I can't remember the sources to cite them or if they were reputable.
The general consensus of the hobby is that M balfouri are by far the safest communal with very few/infrequent reports of canabolism as well as other seemingly unique behaviors. Poecilotheria an Holothele CAN be kept communally but with varying results. I personally have both, a communal of 4 P subfusca that have been together since 2i to their current maturity, and a group of, what started as, 10 H incei and the mother. I believe the mother ate a number of them as she appeared to gain weight between feedings. 2 years later the mother passed and from what I can tell there are 4-6 remaining. At least 3 of the remaining reside in the same web structure. And all 4 of the subfusca have resided in the same hide their entire lives.


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## miss moxie (Sep 9, 2017)

EmilzHernandez said:


> @miss moxie I would make one myself, but I'm not the best with drills and I am always scared of making a mistake that could subsequently hurt the T. I need to work on my anxieties, because I want my animals to have the BEST lives I can offer them


I use a soldering iron, actually. One with variable temps and interchangeable heads. For acrylic I crank the heat up, and for thin plastic I use low heat. I hate drilling. I know it looks very nice but I haven't the patience for it. 



EmilzHernandez said:


> @miss moxie do you think I can keep them in the habitat I made for a week? I need to gather some cash so I can get one of the Inspeclaser ones. @viper69 I believe they are from the same sac. I know they're currently living together and from what I understood, always have been. And are there any species where communals have been seen in the wild?


Sure you can, there isn't anything wrong with that enclosure it's just small. It won't make them eat each other because it's small, it just means you'll have to rehouse them sooner and like I said rehousing communals looks to be about as fun as a trip to the dentist.  When I attempt an M. balfouri communal, I'll follow Tom's method. From one enclosure to their forever enclosure so I've only got to deal with one rehouse. 

M. balfouri have been proven to actually do better as spiderlings kept in a communal with their mother rather than having the sac pulled and raising them in an incubator away from mom. Not sure if I could find where I read that, however. They just genuinely seem to be a tarantula that actually benefits from being kept communally rather than "tolerate" being communal.

I'm no expert though.

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## EmilzHernandez (Sep 9, 2017)

It turns out I already had a larger enclosure, I just had it hidden behind a shelf. Just so it is clear, I had gotten them with the instructions to house them in the 16 oz deli, and I already had all the resources previously. I always keep at least 5 empty enclosures, so I'm ready  for new arrivals


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## viper69 (Sep 10, 2017)

EmilzHernandez said:


> @miss moxie do you think I can keep them in the habitat I made for a week? I need to gather some cash so I can get one of the Inspeclaser ones. @viper69 I believe they are from the same sac. I know they're currently living together and from what I understood, always have been. And are there any species where communals have been seen in the wild?


Believing and knowing are different. All you can go by is what the seller tells you, some are honest, some aren't.

I know someone who saw H. incei living in very close proximity to each other, however I have been unable to get their picture to show people.

This is a question I need to ask my friend who has studied many Ts out in the wild.


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## Trenor (Sep 10, 2017)

I would personally go bigger on the enclosure. I have two communal setups.

The 1st one had 4 slings in a smaller box. They did great though I had to rehouse them about 6 months later. Rehousing went good. I kept a dozen or so catch cups all over the floor around my work table. I worked slow and caught each (in it's own catch cup with lid) as it was uncovered. Then once they were all accounted for I moved them to a much larger enclosure. I added them in and they all took to hiding wherever they could find a spot. Once the settled they were all in the same burrow again despite having 4 to choose from.

The second set of 5  had several sizes that came from the same enclosure clean out but were clearly from at least two different sacks (though with the small one being so tiny could have been three). I put them in a much larger enclosure and they did great as well. I've not had to rehouse them yet and will likely go to a 5 gal tank when I do. They have all lived in the same burrow even when offered several to choose from.

I did end up keeping the tinyest sling out not cause I was worried about it being ate but because the vents were big enough I thought it might get out.

These have been a lot of fun to keep. I hope you enjoy them as much as I have.

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