# Black light scorpion display, will it fade and what wavelength is best?



## Feelers (Mar 4, 2008)

I have just ordered a shadow box display of two scorpions (as below), and I'm going to rig up some ultra violet LED's to make a "trippy" wall hanging out of it. 






I have a few questions. For one is it true that the scorpions will fade from UV light over time? Obviously the intensity of the light might be a factor in the fading, how many lights will I need?

Also what wavelength UV to use? I have found some that are 390nm, but possibly there's better UV wavelengths to use?

Ohh and please tell me they should fluoresce for quite a while, shipping them all the way over to me in New Zealand was more than they cost! :?

And can someone confirm from the pic that they are either palamnaersus or 	
heterometrus? If so which one is more likely? 







Thanks!


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## Aztek (Mar 4, 2008)

Dead+Constant UV of any wavelength will lower the fluorescent property very quickly.


You can always buy UV paint and paint them over.


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## skinheaddave (Mar 4, 2008)

With any decent number of lights, you are likely going to measure the display longevity in weeks.  If you get them to glow really strongly, you might up that to days.  You may be able to get them to fluoresce weakly for longer -- if you do try, let us know.



> palamnaersus or heterometrus? If so which one is more likely?


Palamnaeus was a former name of Heterometrus.  It was in universal useage right up until 1900, even though Heterometrus had been brought into existance a few years prior.  The old name, along with all derevations, fell out of existance except, apparently, for those who kill and frame scorpions.  

Cheers,
Dave


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## Michiel (Mar 4, 2008)

Beware, not all scorpions will fluoresce when dried and framed like that. I got such a frame as a gift, and these do not fluoresce....when I use my 40 led UVmaglite....


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## skinheaddave (Mar 4, 2008)

Michiel said:


> Beware, not all scorpions will fluoresce when dried and framed like that. I got such a frame as a gift, and these do not fluoresce....when I use my 40 led UVmaglite....


Perhaps you needed 42 LEDs ...  

Seriously, it would be interesting to find out why.  Perhaps they are using a chemical of sorts to preserve them that destroys the fluorescence?  Are they drying them in the sunlight?

Cheers,
Dave


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## Feelers (Mar 4, 2008)

Damn, haha I probably should have asked here before buying them! Maybe some sort of fixative spray/sealer might help, although I don't think it will do much. I don't know how they were preserved, I'll ask. I kinda figured that since their fossils reportedly glowed, that they would handle a display pretty well! 

Are there transparent UV reflective paints? That seems like a rather silly question! :wall: I'm guessing transparent fluorescing is a physical impossibility.

Maybe a real fine coat of uv paint! :liar:


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## Feelers (Mar 4, 2008)

OMG there is actually transparent UV paint! Maybe since it is absorbing UV it doesn't necessarily reflect visible light.

Well when they do fade I might make a multicoloured one! With big red pincers, although I'd still prefer the real deal.







http://www.dtekcustoms.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=90


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## Elapid (Mar 4, 2008)

has anyone actually noted a degradation in the fluorescence of dead scorps over time which has been accelerated by exposure to UV light sources.

a couple things to think about here.

1. UV doesn't travel through plain glass, that's why they have to make the bulbs out of special quartz-glass.

2. to be able to view the fluorescence, the UV light must actually get to the scorpion, i.e. painting it with some UV-shielding coating will eliminate any possiblity of fluorescence.

another thing that comes to mind is dead scorps in the desert. do they fluoresce? one day in the desert sun will create more UV exposure than 100 of those little 32-LED flashlights each second (swag).

my .02


oh yeah, fluorescence is created by the UV light knocking an electron into a higher-energy orbital, when it drops back to its normal energy state, it releases a photon at a wavelength relative to the change in energy state.


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## skinheaddave (Mar 4, 2008)

Elapid said:


> has anyone actually noted a degradation in the fluorescence of dead scorps over time which has been accelerated by exposure to UV light sources.


Yes.  I managed to get the top half of a scorpion to almost stop fluorescing in a matter of days with 32 UV LEDs at 390nm.  The bottom still fluoresced fine, as did any areas that were shadowed in any way.  Specimens I've had dry or in alcohol for almost a decade still fluoresce well.  



> 1. UV doesn't travel through plain glass, that's why they have to make the bulbs out of special quartz-glass.


This is definitely true of shorter waved UV, hence why you don't get burned in a car with the windows closed.  That being said, I can definitely make a scorpion fluoresce by blasting it through glass with some 390nm UV LEDs.  I imagine that there is still some degradation - hence the quartz glass on UV bulbs for reptiles etc. (which is to let through UVB).



> another thing that comes to mind is dead scorps in the desert.


I've found scorpion bits in the desert before, but there is no saying whether they were from that same night or not.  They did fluoresce.  I don't know that I've ever found dead scorpion bits out in the open during the day -- definitely under things but never exposed. 



			
				Feelers said:
			
		

> Are there transparent UV reflective paints?


You don't, of course, want UV reflective paint (which would accomplish nothing) but paint that fluoresces.  Elapid has already mentioned the physics of it -- the key here being that the light hitting the scorpion is not reflected back, but rather causes the compounds in the scorpion's cuticle to emit their own light of a lower energy (hence the blue-green).

Cheers,
Dave


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## Feelers (Mar 4, 2008)

skinheaddave said:


> The bottom still fluoresced fine, as did any areas that were shadowed in any way.  Specimens I've had dry or in alcohol for almost a decade still fluoresce well.


Could you please explain this? Do you mean that they can fluoresce under constant UV or that they still glow even though they were collected a long time ago?

For instance specimens in alcohol under constant UV will still fade? The UV fluorescent paints are pretty cool, I think I'll get what I can out of the real scorps, and then just paint them, it will still look awesome. Hopefully the paints don't degrade!


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## skinheaddave (Mar 4, 2008)

I mean they will still fluoresce if you expose them to UV now, years later -- as compared to the specimen I exposed to UV for a few days which stopped rather dramatically (on the exposed side, the bottom still glowed quite nicely -- the sides of the bottom plates lost a bit of their glow, presumably because the white paper I had placed the specimen on reflected enough UV light to do some damage).  

I see no reason that specimens in alcohol under UV wouldn't fade as readily as their counterparts.  If anything, they may fade faster -- alcohol used to preserve scorpions develops a bit of a glow itself and one of the papers (can't remember which one) suggests that this means that relevent compounds are soluble in alcohol.  So potentially some of the "glow" might leach -- but the scorpions themselves still glow plenty strong, even after years.  

Some of the users on here have access to preserved specimens from decades (potentially more than a century) ago and might better be able to say whether alcohol preservation alone has a marked effect on the fluorescence.

Cheers,
Dave


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## Kugellager (Mar 5, 2008)

Michiel said:
			
		

> Beware, not all scorpions will fluoresce when dried and framed like that. I got such a frame as a gift, and these do not fluoresce....when I use my 40 led UVmaglite






skinheaddave said:


> Perhaps you needed 42 LEDs ...
> 
> Seriously, it would be interesting to find out why.  Perhaps they are using a chemical of sorts to preserve them that destroys the fluorescence?  Are they drying them in the sunlight?
> 
> ...


Probably because they are painted black.  A cousin of mine sent me a scorpion in a wall frame and it did not fluoresce either.  Upon further investigation I discovered that it was painted gloss black.

John
];')


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## Michiel (Mar 5, 2008)

Skin,

LOL  

Kugel,

I think you might be right. My scorps are jetblack and have a spraypainted look. Why did this not occur to me before?  

BTW, I got this "souvenir" from a guy who was stationed in Afghanistan, the dealer told him they came from the desert, hahahahaahhaah, they are H.laoticus.....


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