# Suggestions for first snake?



## Aztek (Aug 17, 2007)

What do you guys recommend?


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## Takumaku (Aug 17, 2007)

Eastern Indigo Snake (Drymarchon corais) if money is no issue....
:razz: 


What traits are you looking for in a pet snake?  display snake, handleble snake; slowing/fast moving; under a foot, 4-6 feet, greater than 6 foot size;  food item requirement (mice only, rats only, fish only, bugs only); type of killing method - constrictor vs non-constrictor; egg-laying snake vs live-bearing snake; etc.


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## Crotalus (Aug 17, 2007)

A cornsnake


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## Snakefox (Aug 17, 2007)

Corn Snake or MilkSnakes are awesome 1st snakes , both come in a many differnt colors, eat every time, love frozen/thawed mice, don't get very large, nice temperments, not very expensive, these snakes are just awesome snakes for a 1st snakes and easy to keep. Yet they come in so many differnt colors that it makes them amazing to look at.

Most people would say Ball Pyton but unless you get it from a breeder then you might be getting a wild caught snake. WC ball pytons sometimes do not do well in captivity they are also picky eaters.Picky eaters are frustating to the 1st time snake owner. Not to mention WC snake have a high probablity of internal parasite... IE high vet bills.

Balls do make a nice 2nd snake but get them from breeder and not pet shop. I have rescued so many balls over the years it has been crazy. You can probably rescue one in your area for free. They are the 2nd most abondond snake the 1st being the burmeses python. Burms are docile snakes but as you many all ready know get huge and people get rid of them quick.

ehh nuff rambling snakes are fun pets  Corn or Milk


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## cacoseraph (Aug 17, 2007)

i got a corn snake a few months ago. it seems to be working out pretty well for me. it tooka  little while for it to really let me hold it w/o trying to get away or looking kind of panicked... but it's cool earning its trust

plus, you know, all the colors and patterns and what not


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## loxoscelesfear (Aug 17, 2007)

black mamba


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## Harrod (Aug 17, 2007)

I think any of the coulbrid species make great starter snakes.


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## Aztek (Aug 17, 2007)

Where I went I saw ball python and I wanted to get one since they can grow up to 6 feet. I also saw a corn snake swimming around which I thought was pretty cool, but it's a shame they don't get too big. They also had one that got to 8 feet, but I forgot the name. I guess I'll get a cornsnake first, how long can they live? And how do they eat?

Can someone say all the ways snakes kill? Envenomation and constriction are the only two?


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## Mina (Aug 17, 2007)

How about a rosy boa?  They don't get very big and are very gentle snakes, I just love mine!


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## cacoseraph (Aug 17, 2007)

Aztek said:


> Where I went I saw ball python and I wanted to get one since they can grow up to 6 feet. I also saw a corn snake swimming around which I thought was pretty cool, but it's a shame they don't get too big. They also had one that got to 8 feet, but I forgot the name. I guess I'll get a cornsnake first, how long can they live? And how do they eat?
> 
> Can someone say all the ways snakes kill? Envenomation and constriction are the only two?


when i was still feeding my little baby corn live pinkies it didn't bother to constrict... it would just start eating. watching it eat a pinky face first while it was still alive was the final impetus to switch the little fella to frozen/thawed pinkies


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## OldHag (Aug 17, 2007)

I vote for a sandboa of somesort. Kenyan or Roughscale.. They are usually VERY mellow. They dont spaz out all the time like cornsnakes and milksnakes.  Theyre just nice to hold and look at because they dont always have somewhere to go! 
I have milksnakes and hognoses as well. Out of those two I would say Hogs are more mellow.  My milksnakes are just hyper!!!


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## cacoseraph (Aug 17, 2007)

OldHag said:


> I vote for a sandboa of somesort. Kenyan or Roughscale.. They are usually VERY mellow. They dont spaz out all the time like cornsnakes and milksnakes.  Theyre just nice to hold and look at because they dont always have somewhere to go!
> I have milksnakes and hognoses as well. Out of those two I would say Hogs are more mellow.  My milksnakes are just hyper!!!


are sandboas one of the snakes that will "bask" on your hand/fingers?  like, my cornsnake doesn't wrap himself up in my fingers... i think that would be fun and nice


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## Aztek (Aug 17, 2007)

Oh snaps*, I just noticed I posted this in the Insects/invertebrate section.


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## Aztek (Aug 17, 2007)

Mina said:


> How about a rosy boa?  They don't get very big and are very gentle snakes, I just love mine!


Where did you get one in this area? Or was it ordered. That reminds me, the eight footer was a boa.


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## Flagg (Aug 17, 2007)

Aztek said:


> Where I went I saw ball python and I wanted to get one since they can grow up to 6 feet. I also saw a corn snake swimming around which I thought was pretty cool, but it's a shame they don't get too big. They also had one that got to 8 feet, but I forgot the name. I guess I'll get a cornsnake first, how long can they live? And how do they eat?
> 
> Can someone say all the ways snakes kill? Envenomation and constriction are the only two?



Corn snakes tend to grow longer and thinner than BPs.  My Adult 03 corn is 5.5 ft.   They can live to 15-20 years or more.   I'd definitely say a corn snake is the best first snbake with a BP a good 2nd, as many here have said.   I started with a corn, quickly got several more then got a female BP who is doing just great.

Corn snakes tend to be more active and curious than ball pythons.


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## Aztek (Aug 17, 2007)

Cornsnake it is, although I'm not getting one till' October so there' plenty of times for more suggestions.


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## Flagg (Aug 17, 2007)

Well. there's always the show tomorrow at Du Page County Fairgrounds.

allanimalexpo.com

Kind of hit and miss with the corn selection there these days, but it should be getting batter this late in the summer.


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## OldHag (Aug 17, 2007)

cacoseraph said:


> are sandboas one of the snakes that will "bask" on your hand/fingers?  like, my cornsnake doesn't wrap himself up in my fingers... i think that would be fun and nice


Yes, they like to just hang out. They poke around a bit and will crawl down your shirt...  and peek out your sleeves.  They're just happy to be there.
Rubber boas will wrap around your fingers. Its like wearing a living ring. They just bask on your fingers. They like to be at around 70 degrees so when you hold them it probably feels like a nice hot rock to bask on.  These are sweethearts of a snake as well. Very mellow.  I had one male that would musk me.... but all of the other 100 Ive held/had have been very decent and calm.


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## kahoy (Aug 18, 2007)

was i am still on Insects and Other Invertebrates forum?


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## sidguppy (Aug 18, 2007)

Thamnophis aka Garthersnake

-unlike Corn- or Milksnakes, Rosy-, Sand- or Rubberboa's these are diurnal. so you won't end up with a snake that sleeps or hides all day or just "lays there". Garthers crawl around and hunt at daytime, they mate at daytime and almost all the behaviour there is to be seen happens right there with the lights on.
although giving birth usually happens really early in the morning before dawn

-they are very docile and easily to handle. don't let yourself be kept away by stories that they musk, stink or bite: that only happens when you catch a wild one!
and it's not fair: try holding a wild King- or Milk- or Cornsnake, or even worse, one of the boa's....see what happens! definitely not docile either.
captive-bred Garthers are highly active but also very docile. the head really is too small to do any damage.

-Garthers eat dead prey: thawed unfrozen smelt and the like. this makes for easy feeding: you don't have to get into smelly hairy rodents that can harm your snake when not eaten right away or can cause allergics to you or other people in the house. other prey include live guppies or goldfish in the waterbowl, earthworms and the like. don't forget to treat the dead fish with vitamine B or multivitamines.

-Garthers don't smell IF you keep the cage clean, remove dung and refresh the water. as any animalkeeper should do.

-Easy to breed! just a few months of cool temperatures and they breed. and you don't need an incubator: Gathers get live young that can be raised on earthworms until they're big enough to go for tiny fish and chopped up fish.

-colorful!





Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis "Flame" (linebred red variety)






Thamnophis cyrtopsis ocellatus






Thamnophis sirtalis tetrataenia

these and more are all available from captive-bred stock


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## Aztek (Aug 18, 2007)

:clap:  
Decisions decisions


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## arrowhd (Aug 18, 2007)

I would also consider Lampropeltis getula californiae (California Kingsnakes).  Great starter snake in my opinion.


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## Sheri (Aug 18, 2007)

One with a spine. 

Thread moved.


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## Crotalus (Aug 18, 2007)

OldHag said:


> I vote for a sandboa of somesort. Kenyan or Roughscale.. They are usually VERY mellow. They dont spaz out all the time like cornsnakes and milksnakes.  Theyre just nice to hold and look at because they dont always have somewhere to go!
> I have milksnakes and hognoses as well. Out of those two I would say Hogs are more mellow.  My milksnakes are just hyper!!!


I think a beginner will enjoy seeing the snake once in a while too and the look on the sandboas are not really the typical "snake-look"
Corns are usually calm snakes, eats well and sheds without problems. Id say its the perfect first snake!


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## Crotalus (Aug 18, 2007)

Aztek said:


> Can someone say all the ways snakes kill? Envenomation and constriction are the only two?


Womas take there prey down in burrows by pushing the prey up on the wallby its body and suffocate it
Many larger ratsnakes etc swallow down live prey


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## Mushroom Spore (Aug 18, 2007)

sidguppy said:


> -Garthers eat dead prey: thawed unfrozen smelt and the like. this makes for easy feeding: you don't have to get into smelly hairy rodents that can harm your snake when not eaten right away or can cause allergics to you or other people in the house.


You do realize most rodent-eaters can be trained (and ARE trained) to take pre-killed prey? And the smell of a thawed mouse is certainly no worse than thawed-out fish.


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## Aztek (Aug 18, 2007)

Do you guys recommend buying on line, or from a petco/regular petstore?


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## Mushroom Spore (Aug 18, 2007)

Aztek said:


> Do you guys recommend buying on line, or from a petco/regular petstore?


ONLINE, every time. Pet stores, especially large chains like petco, have an absolutely awful record when it comes to giving people healthy animals that have been well taken care of. Plus they overcharge you like mad--I bought a healthy captive-bred ball python from a reputable breeder, and even with shipping it still cost me less than the sickly dehydrated wild-caught babies Petco had for sale. (You could see every bone in their bodies, yick!)

Check around the seller review forums here, and over on faunaclassifieds.


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## Flagg (Aug 18, 2007)

From a breeeder or at a show.  The chicago area show was today and finally there was a VERY nice selection of cornsnakes, with a lot more corn breeders there.  I guess it's just about peak season for most 07 hatched corns. 

More common morphs like snows, amels and normals from $10-$15, I also saw a good selection of butters, butter motleys, caramels, bloodreds, lavenders, stripes, probably the best selection of corns I've seen there in a long time.

If my recently ordered rack was here I would have come home with an 07 female bloodred corn snake and an 07 male pastel ball python.

Well next show is in 2 weeks and I might get that bloodred, or try to force myself to wait for the big NARBC show in Tinley Park in October.

At a show from a breeder or shipped from a breeder, definitely avoid a pet store.


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## william (Aug 18, 2007)

king snake


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## Aztek (Aug 18, 2007)

Alright, cool.


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## Takumaku (Aug 19, 2007)

Snake killing methods are generally classified into four methods:

simple seizing
seizing and holding with a coil
poisoning
constricting


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## blacktara (Aug 20, 2007)

King snake is a good choice. Mild-mannered and easy to care for


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## Aztek (Aug 20, 2007)

At my local petshop there is an albino kingsnake for 69 dollars. How is that?


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## william (Aug 20, 2007)

go to lllreptile they have them for $39.


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## tin man (Aug 20, 2007)

you should get a ball python, my brother got one and he just loves it.


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## Aztek (Aug 20, 2007)

Well with the shipping it's basically the same, so I guess it is fair.


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## Takumaku (Aug 21, 2007)

Research, research, research all the recommendations before you actually purchase.  Buying the snake is the smallest cost of owning the snake.  You still have to worry about caging, heating (if necessary - black milksnakes don't need additional heat), feeding requirements, and local laws/permits [if applicable].

If you are remotely interested in any North America rat snakes (corns, black rat, grey rat, texas, etc.) then I'll recommed you contact Kathy Love (http://www.corn-utopia.com/) or Don Soderberg (http://www.cornsnakes.net/).  Both, Kathy more so than Don, will talk your head off about all the beautiful morphs they are working with, recommendations on what to get (they almost never recommended a hatchling) and what to expect.

Sand boas -- contact Chris Harrison, sandboa@cox-internet.com ,(http://www.kingsnake.com/sandboa/sandboa.html.)

Pituophis (gophers, bulls, and pine snakes) -- John Cherry Sr./Jr. (http://www.kingsnake.com/cherry/) or KJUN Snakehaven (kj@kingsnake.kingsnake.com).


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## xgrafcorex (Aug 21, 2007)

my first thought is corn snake.  that was my first and second snake.  great little snakes..lots of variety in color variation, pretty calm temperament (though some are a bit nippy when young which generally (not always) diminishes with age and consistent handling), and are pretty inexpensive.  

a king snake wouldn't be bad.  that was my third snake.  mine was a bit more skittish than the corns..but i'm sure they are just as varied in personality as any other species of animal.  

as has been said..research and research some more.  i'd recommend buying a book on whichever snake you decide on BEFORE buying it.  i bought the newer/updated corn snake book from bill and kathy love before getting my first snake, and it had all the information i needed really.  then if there is still something you are wondering, you can always ask here at the boards, or even join a snake forum.


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## Aztek (Aug 21, 2007)

Well I've actually done a lot of research, it's not like I'm just buying a drink with no consideration before I buy it. And like I said, I got until October 4th (My birthday);P


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## Flagg (Aug 21, 2007)

$69 is a bit high for a kingsnake, though average for a pet shop.  Seriously, if you are anywhere near Chicago or the western suburbs (Wheaton), go to the next show.  Check allanimalexpo.com for the schedule and location and directions.

Personally, I would go with a corn snake over a king or milksnake.


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## baboon man8 (Aug 21, 2007)

Aztek said:


> What do you guys recommend?


dude take a hike in your back yard and search for garter snake great for starters nothing fancy trust me.


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## sidguppy (Aug 22, 2007)

except that wild garthers can and do nip and shit and stink all over you
  
and if they're stressed out, they won't eat

best get captive breds


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## Aztek (Aug 22, 2007)

Flagg said:


> $69 is a bit high for a kingsnake, though average for a pet shop.  Seriously, if you are anywhere near Chicago or the western suburbs (Wheaton), go to the next show.  Check allanimalexpo.com for the schedule and location and directions.
> 
> Personally, I would go with a corn snake over a king or milksnake.


That's what I'm thinking of doing. How do prices average there or what?


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## Aztek (Aug 22, 2007)

baboon man8 said:


> dude take a hike in your back yard and search for garter snake great for starters nothing fancy trust me.


I did find one in the northern branch of the Chicago river once.
But it threw everything up.


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## Aztek (Aug 25, 2007)

Check it out


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## sidguppy (Aug 26, 2007)

earthworm?
 

it's pink!


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## Aztek (Aug 26, 2007)

sidguppy said:


> earthworm?
> 
> 
> it's pink!


Even my mom said it looked like an earthworm. 

The had two normal ones but I got this one. 

It's pretty white though, my camera just sucks.


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## Drachenjager (Aug 26, 2007)

i like crolatus horridus


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## CaptainChaos (Aug 26, 2007)

Drachenjager said:


> i like crolatus horridus


Lol, now that would make an awesome first snake 
They´re one of the best looking rattlers in my opinion, hoping to get some in the future.


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## ChainsawMonkey (Sep 1, 2007)

Rough or Smooth Green Snakes
Opheodrys aestivus/vernalis

Both insectivores, small, inexpensive, diurnal, don't bite, docile, and active.


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## sidguppy (Sep 1, 2007)

cheap, cause they're almost always wildcaught..... 

and quite difficult to keep in the long run; only to be bred by real experienced snake keepers; caught in thousands for the trade, most of wich will die within weeks after sale, due to stress and internal parasites

no, i'd never suggest a Green Snake as a first pet; both to save another Green from certain death and to save a potential snake owner from a sad disappointment.

these are one of those typical "throw away pets"; cheap pets sold by unscrupulous pet-shops or big stores, cause they're easy to get (native snake in the US), cost like nothing (caught in huge numbers each year, almost never bred) and if they die, just more are caught.
like Red Eared Slider tortoise babies, baby Snapping Turtles, juvenile Mangrove Crabs, Chilean Rose Tarantula and the like.

best do not buy these unless you're really sure they're true captive bred.


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## Anita (Sep 14, 2007)

Aztek said:


> What do you guys recommend?


I was always told a Corn was the best first snake as they tend to be easier to feed but they can bite if not handled often. A friend of mine has one that started biting as he was not handled for several weeks and now they have to throw the food into its vivarium otherwise it strikes at their hand and they have been bitten so many times now they are too scared to handle it, which is a shame. I opted for a Ball Python for my first one as they are very docile and reluctant to bite however they can be very difficult to get to feed as i am finding out. Mine shows no signs of feeling threatened when handled and seems to love being out of his vivarium climbing up my arms and around my shoulders. I have no regrets getting him and love him to bits i just wish i could get him to strike feed. I have taken advice from Ted and will try his method next time i try to feed him so fingers crossed that this will work.


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## Aztek (Sep 14, 2007)

Well I got the corn snake like three weeks ago.

It didn't eat for two weeks.
What I did was put it in a little container alone with the pinky mouse and left it there for a while.

Came back and it had swallowed it.


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## Mushroom Spore (Sep 14, 2007)

Anita said:


> A friend of mine has one that started biting as he was not handled for several weeks and now they have to throw the food into its vivarium otherwise it strikes at their hand and they have been bitten so many times now they are too scared to handle it, which is a shame.


This is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. They do know they can tame it back down, right? It's not like it's actually capable of injuring anyone.


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## Anita (Sep 15, 2007)

Mushroom Spore said:


> This is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. They do know they can tame it back down, right? It's not like it's actually capable of injuring anyone.


I have offered to help either by having the snake over with me for a while and i will handle him, ( i have no fear of being bitten by a non-venomous snake) or to go over to their house and tame him again but as he is my boss as well he is a little reluctant on me going over. Workplace gossip and all that trash you know how some people think. Ive told him the snake will not hurt him or his son who is the owner of the snake but he is still worried.The corn is about 4ft long and as i keep telling them he needs to be handled so am now going to persuade them to allow me to look after him for a short while. He can bite me but i wont give up on him.


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## Mushroom Spore (Sep 15, 2007)

Anita said:


> The corn is about 4ft long and as i keep telling them he needs to be handled so am now going to persuade them to allow me to look after him for a short while. He can bite me but i wont give up on him.


Good! Of course, what will they do when the snake ends up liking you better than its owner.  (You should also tell them to stop throwing food into the enclosure, which is only making it worse. They are teaching the snake that every time the tank is opened, what comes in is food. This will not help the biting.  )

I'm in somewhat the same boat with my ball python--between some eating issues last winter (his first breeding season, so the hormones put him off his food), me living in some places with crappy heating (didn't want to take him out from his nice warm tank into 65-degree air  ), and then the stress of multiple moves, it's been many months since my boy got regular handling. He's just shy and twitchy and tends to curl up now, though, no biting. In the next couple of days I'll probably just pull on a second shirt so he can hide in it, and go watch a movie. I once did much the same thing while playing video games for about an hour, it was so cute.  

Of course, corn snakes are probably too zippy to bond with like that, they prefer roaming to curling up for a nap, don't they?


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## Yuki (Sep 18, 2007)

I have been thinking of getting a snake. I really want some type of tree snake.. not sure what would be a good one I am looking in the range of 100-200 at most(note if i really like the snake I can go up in price). I have read a whole lot on the emerald tree boas they look so great but i want to see other then them what out there..  if not a tree one, I want one that will wrap around your hand/arm.


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## P. Novak (Sep 18, 2007)

How about a western hognose snake.. _Heterodon nasicus nasicus_. Such cute little snakes, as long as you find one that is already feeding strictly on mice then you shouldn't have a problem at all.


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## Aunt Ant (Sep 19, 2007)

sidguppy said:


> Thamnophis aka Garthersnake
> 
> -unlike Corn- or Milksnakes, Rosy-, Sand- or Rubberboa's these are diurnal. so you won't end up with a snake that sleeps or hides all day or just "lays there". Garthers crawl around and hunt at daytime, they mate at daytime and almost all the behaviour there is to be seen happens right there with the lights on.
> although giving birth usually happens really early in the morning before dawn
> ...


sidguppy, thanks for sharing all that info. Can you recommend breeders or any more resources?
The last one, Thamnophis sirtalis tetrataenia, or San Fransisco garter snake, is endangered. Are they actually being captive bred as pets?


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## Geography Guy (Sep 19, 2007)

Corn Snake, hands down


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