# Widowman10's NEW picture thread  :)



## Widowman10 (Nov 25, 2008)

well, since the last thread is now devoid of any and all pictures, here are some of my favorites!


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## Widowman10 (Nov 25, 2008)

*Tarantulas*

my big girl (OBT):






and yes, she hisses. a LOT.






my beauty. a gorgeous A. seemani:






my freshly molted, 8" L. parahybana:






before molt:






yeah, it's a friend's T :






Horned baboon:






beautiful A. avic sling:






P. chordatus, i love this pic:






A. hentzi male, good colors:

Reactions: Like 1


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## Widowman10 (Nov 25, 2008)

*preservations...*

G. rosea (RCF) threat pose:






P. murinus:






A. hentzi, showing hooks and palps:






H. gigas:






singapore blue:


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## Widowman10 (Nov 25, 2008)

*time for some scorps!*

A. bicolor:






A. australis:






another:






H. spadix:












P. transvaalicus:






C. sculpturatus communal enclosure:






H. arizonensis:











P. boreus??:






H. hottentotta:






a little blacklight on H. arizonensis:






and P. boreus:


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## Widowman10 (Nov 25, 2008)

*Trues*

widow :






no glass:






dang, these guys are so cute:






H. helluo (maybe ):






H. carolinensis:






trapdoor:






widow mating (well, almost):






good lookin male:

Reactions: Like 1


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## Widowman10 (Nov 25, 2008)

more to come when i get my pics back up from my comp at home...


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## ReMoVeR (Nov 25, 2008)

amazing. i love those pics


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## BrotherM213 (Nov 25, 2008)

That rosea threat pose is awesome.  nice pics!


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## pnshmntMMA (Nov 26, 2008)

widowman i hope you get paid for those pics cause they are AWESOME. go work for national geographic haha all i get is blur most of the time. how do i post pics on here?

Reactions: Like 1


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## M4S73R (Nov 26, 2008)

Beautiful spiders, very interesting species.


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## fatich (Nov 26, 2008)

l liked ur Rosea's threat posse ,like a soldier
nice pics


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## Widowman10 (Jan 1, 2009)

*Hogna species from eastern CO*

ok, forgive me for the *very poor *quality of the last 3 photos. these are not good pictures, and i would not post these if it were not for the purpose of a hopeful ID. 

pic #1- here you can see the clear distinctive hogna eye pattern, the red on the chelicerae, and the overall color of the spider. also, the orange stripe between the eyes shows up very good here:








pic #2- here (with awful lighting) you can see the chevron type pattern on the abdomen. very faint orange markings, very dark overall. a dorsal shot:








pic #3- here you can see a small portion of the bottom of the abdomen and its coloration/patterning. a somewhat (poor) ventral shot:








pic #4- one last, again bad, dorsal shot:








any educated help would be appreciated!! better pictures can be taken if needed, just let me know. thank you!


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## Boanerges (Jan 1, 2009)

Awsome pics man!!! I never realized that a male Black widow spider was that much smaller then the female. Very interesting!!!


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## Widowman10 (Jan 5, 2009)

*some more of the wolf*

sorry (again) for the not-so-great pictures, still tryin to get this guy ID'd if possible. abdomen:

natural light:






with flash:






hope this helps!


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## Atreyuhero4 (Jan 5, 2009)

hey how did you get your obt/sing blue/ and h gigas to lay like that?


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## Widowman10 (Jan 5, 2009)

Atreyuhero4 said:


> hey how did you get your obt/sing blue/ and h gigas to lay like that?


haha, i had them molt


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## mxgrrlblu (Jan 22, 2009)

I heart wolfspiders. There is a pic of one in the book "Microcosmos" and he just warms your heart.

I drive a 69 VW baja and my shifter knob is a black widow in a poly globe. It gets a lot of attention..I will take a pic next time I go downstairs.


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## Widowman10 (Feb 5, 2009)

*New Widows!!*

beautiful brown!!






i love the sweet white 'V' on her:






i just love this beautiful mactans:


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## Rick McJimsey (Feb 5, 2009)

Nice Latrodectus!
I heard you got a sexy female B.vagans 
You should post some pics of her..hehe.


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## Widowman10 (Feb 5, 2009)

Rick McJimsey said:


> Nice Latrodectus!
> I heard you got a sexy female B.vagans


in fact i did! wait, how did you know- are you stalking me?!  

i will prob post some pics as soon as she molts!

oh- and the other brown i got (no pics posted) is prob the biggest and prettiest i've ever seen!!


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## fartkowski (Feb 7, 2009)

That wolf spider is pretty cool.
Have you tried the true spider forum for an ID?
Nice pictures.


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## Widowman10 (Feb 7, 2009)

fartkowski said:


> That wolf spider is pretty cool.
> Have you tried the true spider forum for an ID?
> Nice pictures.


haha, yeah, but still. i will need to examine it very closely. thinkin it might be coloradensis (sp?).


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## Avix4me (Feb 7, 2009)

Awesome Hottentotta, I love that species! And that last Wolf spider is friggin huge!


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## Widowman10 (Feb 9, 2009)

*orthochirus!*


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## Widowman10 (Feb 9, 2009)

*more widows...*

big brown:







and then it almost bit me...







and i love this red with the dot:


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## clearlysaid (Feb 9, 2009)

"And then it almost bit me."  LOL, Brian!  Still got the shot.  

Beautiful bugs, man... hope to see them in person soon.  I didn't know you got a new scorp, too??


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## Widowman10 (Feb 9, 2009)

clearlysaid said:


> "And then it almost bit me."  LOL, Brian!  Still got the shot.
> 
> Beautiful bugs, man... hope to see them in person soon.  I didn't know you got a new scorp, too??


haha, yeah, it was only a brown, but still was kinda "uh-oh!"

and yes, i've never even heard of it before, had to google it. it's a fascinating scorp though, very interesting!!


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## biomarine2000 (Feb 21, 2009)

Nice collection Widowman.  As far as the black widows go, all I have to do is step outside and there are tons of them.  No need to keep them in containers.  ;P 

Like the pics, keep em coming.


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## Widowman10 (Mar 25, 2009)

*some more widows*

these are some pics i am using for my senior presentation for my bachelor's degree. the presentation is on the types/structures of webs of L. hesperus.
pretty sweet :} 

L. mactans showing the sticky globs on webbing:






sticking up the pen:






the retreat shown by L. geometricus:






and just a pretty pic of my bishopi :


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## Widowman10 (Mar 25, 2009)

*messin with australis...*

apparently he's still not old enough to wipe his own butt  






ahhh, much better


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## Ritzman (Mar 25, 2009)

Awesome collection of widows.


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## bamato (Mar 25, 2009)

Dude, awesome collection!  I wish I was more into them, I could find HUNDREDS here in AZ.  That unknown wolf is REALLy sweet though.  Very "bulky"


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## Widowman10 (Mar 25, 2009)

bamato said:


> Dude, awesome collection!  I wish I was more into them, I could find HUNDREDS here in AZ.  That unknown wolf is REALLy sweet though.  Very "bulky"


only the hesperus widows  there are plenty more very interesting widows!!

and the wolf has been identified as Hogna coloradensis :clap:


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## Widowman10 (Mar 31, 2009)

*mactans pics*


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## Widowman10 (Mar 31, 2009)

*bishopi pics*


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## Widowman10 (Mar 31, 2009)

*hesperus pics*


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## Widowman10 (Mar 31, 2009)

*variolus pics*


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## Widowman10 (Mar 31, 2009)

*geometricus pics*


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## patmos72 (Apr 16, 2009)

How did you manage to lay the G. rosea like that? I am wondering how could you do that, cause it looks great...

Are those molts of them?


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## Widowman10 (Apr 16, 2009)

patmos72 said:


> How did you manage to lay the G. rosea like that? I am wondering how could you do that, cause it looks great...
> 
> Are those molts of them?


yes, they are molts (well, some are...).

and i just positioned it the way i wanted (when wet) and made sure it would not sag or move around. i used whatever was handy!


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## Widowman10 (May 15, 2009)

*side-by-side Latro vs. Steatoda comparison*

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ritzman (May 15, 2009)

Man those last set of shots are so cool.
Widows Rock.


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## Mack&Cass (May 15, 2009)

Those widows are beautiful...very impressive to see you pinch holding them:worship:


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## fartkowski (May 18, 2009)

Cool shots


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## Widowman10 (May 26, 2009)

sideways molting para:







spadix under blacklight:







new lizzies:


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## Widowman10 (May 29, 2009)

wierd green bee/fly:






my big spadix was ANGRY! you can barely see a little drop of venom on the telson:












male variolus, hopefully the breeding will end well tonight:






male bishopi:












testing the waters, hopefully this will end well too:


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## Widowman10 (May 29, 2009)

*males*

hopefully i will be adding to this when my babies grow. documenting MM of different species.

variolus:






bishopi:






hesperus:


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## Widowman10 (Jun 4, 2009)

on our quick trip to ramah, we found a ton of these again.

PEEK!!






i love taking photos of my monster girl :






then later, i fed her a deer. this is all she left.






tailing my A. bicolor, i was a bit scared but oh well :






again:






my new sculpt. he's hanging vertically trying to eat a moth, i thought is was so cute! :razz:


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## Protectyaaaneck (Jun 4, 2009)

That last pic is great.


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## Widowman10 (Jul 6, 2009)

*cool green hopper- just to start things off... *

some cool colors and contrasts:


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## Widowman10 (Jul 6, 2009)

*finally! male mactans and the female*

oh, and this was probably the tiniest MM widow i have ever seen. he was very small.


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## Widowman10 (Jul 6, 2009)

*some other trues...*

spider from alaska, found one also in the mountains here in CO:



















leucage:






araneus:






scenicus:






?:






male audax:


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## Widowman10 (Jul 9, 2009)

video of hoist (hopefully!):

[YOUTUBE]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/PY5YPawnWk4&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/PY5YPawnWk4&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/0blv_55rpFQ&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/0blv_55rpFQ&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/YOUTUBE]


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## Protectyaaaneck (Jul 9, 2009)

That white and black spider from Alaska is awesome looking.


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## Widowman10 (Jul 9, 2009)

*oh, CRAP.*

remember her?






what's she doing on the thin screen top?






oh, oh no!


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## Widowman10 (Jul 9, 2009)

*widow and solpugid*


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## loxoscelesfear (Aug 28, 2009)

that mystery wolfspider @ beginning-- nice pics btw-- looks similar to Hogna aspersa or H. georgicola.  Burrowers found in damp situations in or near woodland edges.  But I do not know if they occur in your area.  Then again, examination of reproductive organs is sometimes the only way to narrow these critters down.  cheers


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## Widowman10 (Aug 28, 2009)

loxoscelesfear said:


> that mystery wolfspider @ beginning-- nice pics btw-- looks similar to Hogna aspersa or H. georgicola.  Burrowers found in damp situations in or near woodland edges.  But I do not know if they occur in your area.  Then again, examination of reproductive organs is sometimes the only way to narrow these critters down.  cheers


i should have posted an update :wall: i actually got it narrowed down to Hogna coloradensis! very abundant in my area, found in eastern CO. very cool wolf spider, def one of my favorites! examination of organs was somewhat required, as was patterns near sexual areas. 

thanks for looking at my pics!!


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## seanbond (Aug 28, 2009)

interesting prey for a black widow.


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## tekkendarklord (Aug 28, 2009)

AWESOME PICTURES!!!:clap:


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## Kathy (Aug 28, 2009)

widowman, just amazing photography.  How do you hold spiders without them biting you?  I just absolutely love all the photos you and AZJohn take.  You capture their beauty and inspire me to keep learning more about black widows and tarantulas and scorpions.


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## Widowman10 (Aug 29, 2009)

seanbond said:


> interesting prey for a black widow.


there was a story that went along with it...


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## Widowman10 (Aug 29, 2009)

kathy_in_arizona said:


> widowman, just amazing photography.  How do you hold spiders without them biting you?


very carefully 

i take the "pinch" approach. sometimes i'll free handle though. just gotta judge the particular spider that day.


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## Widowman10 (Sep 2, 2009)

just some more, for fun since i don't think some of these were here (just on my photobucket...).

mactans (showing white markings):






bishopi:












variolus:
























geometricus:


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## Kathy (Sep 2, 2009)

widowman, I would like to see what your set up looks like, do you have pictures posted of that?  I love the close up photos, I'm wondering how they are all kept.  For instance, are the containers all line up on shelves?  Are they spread out all over your house?  You and AZJohn's pictures just fascinate me!


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## VESPidA (Sep 3, 2009)

*enlighten me!*

maybe this is a dumb question, but how are you raising (and holding!) those widows without fear of a bite?  i was under the impression that their bites can be fatal, or at least do some serious damage (ie. major skin necrosis), compared to that of (most) tarantulas.


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## recluse (Sep 3, 2009)

HokiePokie727 said:


> maybe this is a dumb question, but how are you raising (and holding!) those widows without fear of a bite?  i was under the impression that their bites can be fatal, or at least do some serious damage (ie. major skin necrosis), compared to that of (most) tarantulas.


Fatal maybe for the young and old and only in extreme cases. Latrodectus arent agressive just defensive.


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## Widowman10 (Oct 1, 2009)

*more widow shots*

silver hesp:






MM white hesp:












tred sling:






MF hasselti:


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## Widowman10 (Oct 21, 2009)

*couple of new spiders...*

a BEAUTIFUL 6" female smithi:






got a sweet new orange phid also:


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## Widowman10 (Oct 21, 2009)

*widow pics for comparison*


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## Widowman10 (Oct 21, 2009)

another comparison of Latrodectus and Steatoda (since someone requested i do the same thing with a grossa ). again, tried to pick 2 similarly-sized spiders.


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## Widowman10 (Oct 21, 2009)

from bugguide.com, drawings of eye patterns of Latrodectus and Steatoda, respectively:


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## The Spider Faery (Oct 21, 2009)

> another comparison of Latrodectus and Steatoda (since someone requested i do the same thing with a grossa ). again, tried to pick 2 similarly-sized spiders.


Steatoda on our left and Latrodectus on our right, right?


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## Widowman10 (Oct 21, 2009)

S. Blondi said:


> Steatoda on our left and Latrodectus on our right, right?


correct


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## Widowman10 (Nov 3, 2009)

*yeah!!*

new spiders, and gorgeous at that!! 

introducing... L. pallidus (the white widow):

















































couple of nice shots of her "bell-shaped" retreat. common for this species.


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## Widowman10 (Nov 3, 2009)

*dark form geometricus*

this is an interesting geo. jet black all over. very neat, and could easily pass for a mac or hesp.


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## Widowman10 (Nov 3, 2009)

*hasselti mating*

was hoping to document constriction and the male sacrifice.
http://rsbl.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/1/3/276.full.pdf

male wandering on the female's web, cutting it, making modifications, etc:












mating!


















and he did the flip, she is now eating him:












:razz: allright!! :razz:


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## Mattyb (Nov 3, 2009)

Awesome collection!


Love your signature.


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## Widowman10 (Nov 3, 2009)

thanks! x2!


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## Widowman10 (Nov 8, 2009)

my beautiful A. versi:






another of my MF smithi:






6" MF albo, hoping she'll molt soon and get even bigger :}:






our little antlion with his jaws all spread out at the bottom of the pit:






more from the sculpt comm (separated the momma a couple of days ago):


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## Widowman10 (Nov 9, 2009)

*couple of shots of a deceased H.a.*


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## Teal (Nov 9, 2009)

*Very cool collection! *


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## Widowman10 (Nov 14, 2009)

we keep finding these wasps inside our house. of course the wife loves this...


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## Widowman10 (Nov 14, 2009)

*surprise!*

my large parahybana female just molted about 8-9 months ago. imagine my surprise when i saw this:







 didn't even think or know she was in pre-molt!


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## Widowman10 (Nov 14, 2009)

snapped an open shot of one of the pallidus females eating. also, notice the odd back leg deformity (bent leg):







hasselti female, getting fatter!!


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## Widowman10 (Nov 14, 2009)

*molt pics*

the "ruler shot" showing her molt was a solid 8" (not stretched):







complete. i decided to stuff the abdomen this time, turned out quite well:






hand for size reference (and for those of you who know me, i have disproportionately big hands ):


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## bannrikae (Nov 14, 2009)

Some great pictures!


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## Widowman10 (Nov 16, 2009)

*new GBB female *

well, finally got me a female GBB today. she's quite a looker already too!!


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## varanus dwarfus (Nov 16, 2009)

How big is your GBB?


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## Widowman10 (Nov 16, 2009)

varanus dwarfus said:


> How big is your GBB?


only about 4+" right now.


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## varanus dwarfus (Nov 17, 2009)

She is quite a good looking girl!


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## Widowman10 (Mar 19, 2010)

*Reference Table for Latrodectus*

this post is to serve as a reference for information about the north american widow spiders (mainly the black widow spiders). much of the information and facts were gleaned from outside sources, only some is mine. the list is not complete as other info can be found elsewhere in this thread. presentation is set up to follow the life of the spider.




*average egg sizes:*
the eggs are spherical, or almost so.
those of L. mactans average about 0.95 mm in diameter
those of L. hesperus average about 1.1 mm in diameter
those of L. variolus average about 1.2 mm in diameter 


*time of emergence from eggsac:*
hesperus takes the longest time to emerge
mactans is in between
various takes the shortest time to emerge


*the average time, in days, from oviposition to emergence:*
hesperus: 30.3 ± 2.8
mactans: 29.1 ±3.0
variolus: 26.2 ±2.2
(slings molt usually once, sometimes twice, before emerging from the eggsac)


*size of slings:*
mactans: smallest slings
hesperus: small slings
variolus: largest slings
(bishopi also have very large slings. for example, a 1st instar bishopi is twice the size of 1st instar mactans or hesperus, and a 2nd instar bishopi is about equal to a 4th instar mactans/hesperus. bishopi naturally produce fewer but significantly larger eggs/slings compared to the other species.)


*sling coloration:*
hesperus: color variation is minimal when compared to mactans, and variolus to a lesser extent.
mactans: have red, yellow, white, or tan slings. doesn't matter where they are from. some females produce red one sac and white another.
variolus: while coloration might be similar to the other species at times, variolus look nothing like mactans as slings as far as size and pattern.
bishopi: color variation is minimal.
geometricus: color variation is minimal.


*average number of days to maturity, roughly:*
hesperus: males- 100, females- 200
mactans: males- 70, females- 140
variolus: males- 130, females- 150
(females mature at the 7th and 8th instars)
(browns typically mature much faster than our native species)


*penultimate recognition:*
in specimens one molt short of maturity, the area where the epigynum will later show appears much arched. thus it is possible to recognize one in the penultimate instar. in the antepenultimate instar the area is usually somewhat lighter than those surrounding areas, but definite recognition of females in this stage is not easy. 


*distinguishing adults from subadults:*
an easy way to distinguish adults from subadults is by the curvature of femurs I and IV in adults. curvature in other leg segments such as the tibia and metatarsus is a defect at any stage in Latrodectus (although sometimes there is a normal slight curve in metatarsi I).


*males:*
-males can be sexed at the antepenultimate stage (by enlarged palps)
-males typically mature at different instars in Latrodectus, smallest being the 5th
-adult males of the NA species generally show no aggression towards slings


*coloration and description of males:*
hesperus male:
The male has on the carapace a dark gray to black band along the lateral margins, and a dark band along the middle. The sternum is dark along the lateral borders, but lighter in the middle. The legs show dark annuli. The hourglass mark is not much constricted in the middle and is usually yellow rather than red, some specimens showing a slight suffusing of orange pigment. The abdominal dorsum shows a characteristic pattern of olive greenish gray alternating with light tan bands. One of the light areas appears as a middorsal band usually with orange pigment as a thin line down its center. The other light areas appear as three bands on each side, which extend along the sides diagonally down and toward the rear. The most anterior of these is hooked and procurved nears its ventral end. The male of L. mactans also shows three bands along the side but only rarely is the first one hooked and procurved. In L. variolus there are four bands. Moreover, in both L. mactans and L. variolus the areas between these light bands are much darker than in L. hesperus. 

mactans male:
Generally, the male is similar to a fifth instar female. The cephalothorax may be all black, or the carapace may show a somewhat lighter band on either side of a median black band. The legs may be all black, or have lighter annuli retained from earlier instars. There is a median row of red spots on the dorsum of the abdomen. On the venter the hourglass mark is distinct. Encircling the anterior end of the abdomen is a white band, and on either side farther back are two additional white bands which extend diagonally down and to the rear. Seen from the side this gives the appearance of three white bands. In L. Hesperus there are also three white bands as seen from the side, but the anterior one is always hooked and procurved near its ventral end, while this is uncommon in L. mactans. Also, in L. Hesperus the background color is much lighter. In L. variolus the ground color is as dark as in L. mactans. There are four bands visible along the side. 

variolus male:
The male has the cephalothorax and legs black as in the female, but the legs are more likely to show the brown annuli. The dorsum shows a pattern similar to that of the female, but with the white stripes generally broader. From the side, four such stripes are visible, making this sex relatively easy to distinguish from the males of L. Hesperus and L. mactans, which have only three light stripes. The hourglass mark is divided. 


*number of embolus coils:*
bishopi and variolus: 2
mactans: 3
geometricus: 4


*character of embolus in males:*
Levi found, that to some extent at least, the character of the embolus could be used to separate species. In L. variolas it is wider than, and about three-fourths as long as, in L. mactans. It makes two coils in L. variolus, but three in L. mactans. Moreover, the coils are tighter and less open in L. variolus than in L. mactans. In the type male of L. hesperus, the embolus shows two coils (as in the "curacaviensis group") though it appears longer than in L. variolus, as the coils are more open. However, the coils are tighter and less open than in L. mactans. But there is much variation among the many specimens of L. hesperus that have been studied.


*sizes:*
-Of the three species, L. mactans averages smallest for both sexes. Thirty-seven males ranged from 2.9 to 5.1 mm in length, with most between 3.2 and 4 mm; 52 females ranged from 5 to 13.5 mm, with most between 8 and 10 mm. 
-Latrodectus variolus has the largest males, mostly between 5.5 to 6.5 mm, with a range for 34 specimens of 4.5 to 8.3 mm. Females of L. variolus are mostly 9 to 11 mm in length with a range for 32 specimens of 7.4 to 13 mm. 
-Latrodectus hesperus has large females, 59 specimens ranging from 8 to 15.5 mm, with most from 10.5 to 13 mm. Sixty-three males ranged from 3 to 6.5 mm, with most between 3.8 and 4.5 mm.
(The female brown widow is the most variable Latrodectus species in both size and coloration.)
(The large southeastern L. variolus are the largest widows in NA. There is much variation in adult size in all NA widows throughout their ranges and within local populations though. Each population consists of large, average, and small adults. Large, average, and small refers to CL and LS. The size variation is a result of specimens maturing at different instars, and instar sizes. Spiders at the same instar do not always have the same measurements.)


*closeness of species:*
hesperus and mactans: so closely related are hesperus and mactans that they were for a long time considered to be the same species.
variolus and bishopi: L. bishopi and L. variolus are certainly distinct species, but the close similarity between the two in morphology and their allopatric distribution suggests that L. bishopi might have been derived from L. variolus.


*sympatric species:*
The only sympatric species to be observed so far are bishopi/geometricus, mactans/geometricus, and mactans/variolus. Mactans has not been seen in bishopi habitat yet. And geometricus may very well displace species such as mactans and hesperus in NA, but it is not known if there are any official reports of it. Mactans and geometricus retreats have been observed within one foot of each other, and mactans/variolus and bishopi/geometricus webs within several feet of each other.


*reaction to threats:*
most are similar in regards to fleeing to their retreat to hide. some will present the sticky globs of glue. geometricus will even just fall to the ground, something i’ve never seen any other widow do.


*leg length proportion:*
-although there is much variation, for females the first leg is proportionately longest in L. variolus, shortest in L. mactans, and intermediate in L. hesperus. in males, there is very little difference between L. hesperus and L. variolus, both of which have the first leg averaging slightly longer than in L. mactans.  
-and length of legs from longest to shortest in Latrodectus is: 1-4-2-3.


*some mating stuff (much can be written on the processes and whatnot):*
-“Intrusive opportunistic mating” can occur between mature males and subadult females.
-Apparently there is a brief period of time after satiation prior to molting when a subadult female will allow a male to mate. Prior to satiation, an adult male is generally perceived as nothing more than prey to an immature female spider.
-Often sneaky males that spend little time courting and go straight to trying to mate are killed and eaten or killed and thrown out. 
-Males often destroy the females web prior to mating and place their own silk throughout the web. This possibly helps prevent conspecific males from entering the web or maybe to warn them to keep away (but other males may enter the web regardless in an attempt to mate), and to possibly minimize the chances of prey becoming entangled in the web, which would interrupt courtship and mating. There is much competition between males in a natural habitat, and generally the first male on the scene will always try to mate first, but that is not always the case. Male Latrodectus are known to cohabit and copulate with sated subadult females as well. Latrodectus is one of many genera that uses pheromones for reproductive purposes. Pheromones are emitted by both sexes, but primarily aid the males with locating females. Females have been shown to react to both male and other females’ pheromones.
-Crossbreeding does not work.


*indication sac is bad:*
The female will discard the sac. Most female Latrodectus are protective of their sacs, and guard them zealously. They will readily discard them if infertile or parasitized, and shortly after spiderlings emerge, though. Some species such as geometricus leave the sac in the retreat regardless of viability and content.


*defense of eggsacs:*
Female NA widows love their sacs and are very protective of them, especially hesperus and mactans. But, geometricus differ from the others in that they rarely to never defend their sacs or themselves.


*sac production, most sacs produced:*
hesperus: 21
mactans: 15
variolus: 6
geometricus: 33
bishopi: 8


*eggsac shape and color:*
hesperus: tan and pyriform. pear-shaped, and often somewhat spread at the top. about 13 or 14 mm in height and about 10 or 12 mm in diameter. most often creamy yellow to light tan.
mactans: gray and spherical. almost always show the gray tinge and often are quite decidedly gray, even when freshly made. also, they are more nearly spherical, about 11 or 12 mm in diameter, and with a conspicuous nipple at the top. 
variolus: gray and pyriform. pear-shaped, and often somewhat spread at the top. about 13 or 14 mm in height and about 10 or 12 mm in diameter. light tan with most often a tinge of gray.


*numbers of sacs and numbers per sac:*
there are fewer egg sacs made by mactans than by hesperus. however, mactans lay more eggs per sac on the average, the mean for 185 sacs being 255 eggs, while for hesperus the mean of 464 sacs was 196 eggs. 


*length of sperm retention:*
females can retain sperm for up to 600 days


*maximum longevity, in days:*
hesperus: male- 369, male post-maturity- 196, female- 1049, female post-maturity- 952
mactans: male- 235, male post-maturity- 127, female- 911, female post-maturity- 849
variolus: male post-maturity- 155, female- 1063, female post-maturity- 822




thanks for reading! hope everybody learned something.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Widowman10 (Jul 8, 2010)

*A versicolor finally matured male!*

so i got him out for a quick photoshoot:


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## codykrr (Jul 8, 2010)

LOVE The WIDOWS!

Though i will admit, you have some guts holding them. I couldnt ever do that!:clap:

Ever been tagged?  

Great shots though.  love the heart shaped pattern on the variolus!


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## Widowman10 (Jul 8, 2010)

thanks!! and no


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## D3AdB0DYMAN (Jul 8, 2010)

Beautiful spiders and scorpions


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## Widowman10 (Aug 8, 2010)

*it's that time of year*

forget shark week, it's molt week at my house. 4 of my adults all molted within a few days. 

freshly molted Aphonopelma sp.:







and these aren't the best pics, i know, but they were taken on the fly for somebody who is interested in him for some lovin for his female  : 







proof that this stud is mature and ready to go! :


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## Dinho (Aug 9, 2010)

Awesome widows collection


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## Widowman10 (Aug 9, 2010)

thanks!!


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## Widowman10 (Aug 16, 2010)

my beautiful new boehmei:



















and i swear, this gal just gets more and more pretty everyday!


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## J.huff23 (Aug 16, 2010)

Im loving that GBB! They look so much better as adults!


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## Widowman10 (Aug 16, 2010)

J.huff23 said:


> Im loving that GBB! They look so much better as adults!


i know, GORGEOUS!! haha

best thing, she's only about 3.5-4", so she's still got some growin' to do!


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## Spiderman937 (May 7, 2013)

To WidowMan10: Thank you so much for posting all that great info on Latrodectus, has been more than helpful. Pretty accurate as far as what I already have witnessed, and as for what I didn't know, very helpful info, thank you. Yes, L. hesperus females are the largest L. females I have seen, their males being kinda small, L. variolus males being the largest L males I have seen, and geometricus having males very small. Hesperus have done the best in captivity for me as far as lifespan. I do have some tricks for extending life of spiders without them suffering. Have had L. hesperus last 4 to 5 years. Always important for them to never dry out, or be starved of food and especially water droplets. I hand water mine from a spoon shaped fingernail tool, sometimes vitamin water  or pedialyte type fluids. Sometimes a spider's digestive system will fail, and their spinnerets might fail at old age. I will notice that, and use other spiders to prepare prey for them. Sometimes I wet a q-tip in water and clean their butts if they get shitty. I have had male widow spiders last over 6 months after maturity this way since they often become not interested in catching prey items. I do have some L. variolus- 3 young females and 3 large males. 1 male is vicious and will quickly capture anything I give him and feed, while 1 male has become a total puss and runs away from the smallest prey items. 1 of the females bit the tip of my tongue the other day, I stuck out my tongue as she came down a web from my hand, usually that causes them to run back up the web. The puss male I have pics posted before and after final molt. I thought he would be more of a beast than he is. I have seen black widows as well as brown widows fall balled up and play dead. Most black widows will flex and stretch the web with their legs, but why do they sometimes bob their butts in quick twitch like motions mostly in prescence of another spider in their web? I have seen immature and mature males and females do this. What does it mean? They take turns like they are talking.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Widowman10 (May 7, 2013)

i've seen them flex back in forth both in prey and predator situations. i've heard that perhaps that might be to stretch individual threads to get a better feel as to what's out there. makes sense i guess.

as for the butt bobbing, i usually only see this when they are attaching web points. or pooping haha


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## Spiderman937 (May 7, 2013)

Black geometricus often have the satin like textures, and hourglass often more orange than red with extra dot as part of it in front of spinnerets that appears to connect the hourglass to the ring around the spinnerets.

---------- Post added 05-07-2013 at 11:07 AM ----------

Where the heck can I get a tredecimguttatus? I am in Ohio.


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## Widowman10 (May 7, 2013)

yep!

and there are a few floating around here and there. i'm currently all out


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## Spiderman937 (May 7, 2013)

I dont like the idea of pinch grab holding the spiders. I'd be afraid to hurt them. I just let them walk on my hand or carefully close my hand around them until they adjust and feel ok enough to build a web in my hand. Lately though one L. variolus has been biting. But my tongue the other day, and yesterday my hand 3 or 4 times, had to put her up. My hand was itching too much to hold her, kinda tingle and sting. A stingel.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Widowman10 (May 7, 2013)

just gotta be gentle  they're not quite as fragile as they look


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## Spiderman937 (May 7, 2013)

I am very gentile, but the only Latrodectus I feel I can close my hand around without breaking them are hesperus. Off the subject, when I was 12 or 13 in Texas, I found a large filistatid under Bandera Rd at Leon creek, looked normal. She fell from my hand on the way home and ran into Bandera Rd in San Antonio during rush hour, I was like CRAP! I waited until there was space between cars to grab her, she was ran over by probably 5 or 6 cars doing 40 mph. Her spines were standing out. I almost got hit but had to grab her. Kept her for a long time, but her next molt, she got hairy, I mean hairy like a tarantula. Could it have been from being spooked so badly, or the exhaust fumes from the cars?


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## pannaking22 (Feb 11, 2014)

Great pics and info! Really fun thread to look through

Reactions: Like 1


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## FatherOfWidows (Feb 19, 2014)

widowman10 you are awesome!!!!! I hoped you would be on here and I just stumbled upon you. I have gotten a lot of information from your site about widows and it was extremely helpful to me. Just wanted to say thanks for all the information you put out to everyone.

---------- Post added 02-19-2014 at 11:54 PM ----------

I know what you mean. feels like eight needles just resting/ moving along you and it is hard to deal with it for more than a couple of minutes/hours depending how bored I am.

---------- Post added 02-20-2014 at 12:00 AM ----------

widowman10 is beast. Most of the things I have learned were from trial and error on the spiderlings, but after a little bit of research I found widowman10's website which was extremly helpful and saved many of my babies lives after reading his information/experience.

---------- Post added 02-20-2014 at 12:04 AM ----------

by the way don't hold out on the tricks to increase lifespan what's your secrecy? help us out? 3 to 4.5 is the max so far for me. terrariums seem to do the trick to extend the lifespan for me. I am in sc though if that makes a difference.

---------- Post added 02-20-2014 at 12:09 AM ----------

I never understand how people can take such great pics of spiders. normally my focus is only on advoiding hurting or stressing the spider out and all my pics come out crappy

Reactions: Like 1


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