# Breeding ants



## Tleilaxu (Apr 23, 2008)

I just caught two males and two female ants from seperate colony. I currently have them in a screen cage that is 24x24x24 and I hung it outside six feet off the ground.

Do you think they may mate? I have seen them flying around the cage.

These are a type of large black ant.


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## echostatic (Apr 24, 2008)

i thought ants mated 800 feet in the air


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## syndicate (Apr 24, 2008)

you cant mate ants in captivity.do the queens you've collected still have there wings?if they dont they are most likely already fertile and will lay eggs for you.


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## echostatic (Apr 24, 2008)

syndicate said:


> you cant mate ants in captivity.


well you *could*  just make that mesh screen enclosure about 900 feet tall and half a mile in length and width and theyll probably mate. maybe.


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## Eclipse (Apr 24, 2008)

They don't go that high... Ants nuptual flight vary between species, but 900 feet is a bit extreme. Most mate around 200 feet and some mate about 1 foot from the ground. If you seen ants flying around wait about 30 minutes to an hour and go look outside. You will most likely find queens on the ground.


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## echostatic (Apr 24, 2008)

hmm my mistake. it looks like its fire ants mate between 600 and 800 feet in the air.


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## Tleilaxu (Apr 24, 2008)

Well here is an interesting turn of events! One of the female ants I caught tore off her wings and was nestled in the corner of the cage, perhaps she thought it was a good place to try to nest?*ALL THE ANTS I CAUGHT HAD WINGS!* Anyways I have her in a vial of dirt and in a dark and quiet place, and we will see if she lays eggs.

The question is did she mate in the cage or was she previosly mated? I dont know as I caught her around her nest and I doubt newly mated queens return to a nest. Well I let the other three go as I only need one queen to see if this works...


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## echostatic (Apr 24, 2008)

there are certain ant species that will mate and then return to the nest. i JUST read it but i cant remember what kind of ant does that...


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## apidaeman (Apr 24, 2008)

Actually you could but you would have to use minitures of the tools and equipment. I use to artificially inseminate, queen honeybees. Since they are both hymenopterans their reproductive systems should be similar. The only real difference would be size.


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## apidaeman (Apr 24, 2008)

Tleilaxu said:


> Well here is an interesting turn of events! One of the female ants I caught tore off her wings and was nestled in the corner of the cage, perhaps she thought it was a good place to try to nest?*ALL THE ANTS I CAUGHT HAD WINGS!* Anyways I have her in a vial of dirt and in a dark and quiet place, and we will see if she lays eggs.
> 
> The question is did she mate in the cage or was she previosly mated? I dont know as I caught her around her nest and I doubt newly mated queens return to a nest. Well I let the other three go as I only need one queen to see if this works...


If she does produce adults they will be drones(males) if she is not fertilized.


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## Tleilaxu (Apr 24, 2008)

apidaeman said:


> Actually you could but you would have to use minitures of the tools and equipment. I use to artificially inseminate, queen honeybees. Since they are both hymenopterans their reproductive systems should be similar. The only real difference would be size.



Hey if your still doing this can you make a step by step guide with pics and post it here? That would be awesome!

@Echo: I know fire ants do this but was unaware that formica ants and the "carpenter" ants did this. Either way I may have a fertile queen reguardless, that itself is an achievement, the only thing that would be better is if they did actually mate in that cage which I cannot confirm or deny.

LOL@ a colony of drone ants! We will see!


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## apidaeman (Apr 24, 2008)

There are many sites online detailing AI ing honeybee queens, but I definatly would post it on here. If I were to attempt it with ants. 

Truthfully it is very easy provided you have drones, some CO2, and basic tools.

If you want to select a particular trait, you can inbreed a queen with herself.


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## Tleilaxu (Apr 24, 2008)

apidaeman said:


> There are many sites online detailing AI ing honeybee queens, but I definatly would post it on here. If I were to attempt it with ants.
> 
> Truthfully it is very easy provided you have drones, some CO2, and basic tools.
> 
> If you want to select a particular trait, you can inbreed and queen with herself.


Well if you ever do this again please post pics and outline what you did, with bees or ants!


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## dtknow (Apr 24, 2008)

You think handpairing(as with leps) would work?


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## Anh (Apr 24, 2008)

all queen do that when capture unfertile. When seperated from their natural setting they seem to have the instinct that they have mated and ripped off their wings and lay eggs. These eggs will ether not hatch or become male


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## apidaeman (Apr 25, 2008)

Anh said:


> all queen do that when capture unfertile. When seperated from their natural setting they seem to have the instinct that they have mated and ripped off their wings and lay eggs. These eggs will ether not hatch or become male


Are ants different in this facet than bee's when a bee lays unfertilized eggs they hatch into drones. Even workers that lay eggs turn into drones, in some instances a hive will lose it's queen and develope egg-laying workers.
Putting a queen in will not solve the problem either they will kill her.


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## echostatic (Apr 25, 2008)

when an ant is laying only drones, will they take up the duties of nest construction and foraging? if so it would be much easier to grab a handful of winged ants from a fire ant mound and start a colony.


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## apidaeman (Apr 25, 2008)

No. Drone ants are like drone bees in that their only purpose in life is to 
pro-create other than that they are a drain on colony rescources. Honeybees banish drones from the hive in the fall and since they are incapable of gathering food for themselves they die.


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## Tleilaxu (Apr 25, 2008)

> all queen do that when capture unfertile. When seperated from their natural setting they seem to have the instinct that they have mated and ripped off their wings and lay eggs. These eggs will ether not hatch or become male


then how come the other queen did not, also last year I caught an unmated queen that never even touched her wings while confined for nesting. Well Here is hoping for the best.

@Echo fire ants dont dig very deep nests find a small one and dig it up.


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## echostatic (Apr 25, 2008)

Tleilaxu said:


> @Echo fire ants dont dig very deep nests find a small one and dig it up.


oh they certainly do, unless its a new nest. ive tried digging, i never hit the bottom. the invasive fire ants can dig up to 6 feet down and once disturbed the queen heads straight to the lowest point. the alates are still in the nests here so im just waiting for them to fly.


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## Anh (Apr 26, 2008)

Tleilaxu said:


> then how come the other queen did not, also last year I caught an unmated queen that never even touched her wings while confined for nesting. Well Here is hoping for the best.
> 
> @Echo fire ants dont dig very deep nests find a small one and dig it up.


i had have many queen that remove their wings when i took them out of their nest.  They still lay eggs but never hatch on me, those that are mated always hatch.


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