# Poecilotheria hybrids



## charlesc84 (Jan 10, 2012)

Has anyone here tried cross breeding pokies? If so, did you have any success with it?

Reactions: Disagree 2


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## Ultum4Spiderz (Jan 10, 2012)

probably a bad idea crossbreeding of vary rare species... happened a while back I heard like P smithi... but I dont know if this is a FACT... just word of mouth

do NOT crossbreed.... pokies or any T... hybridization is bad.. were do you find males for the next generation ???

Reactions: Award 1


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## grayzone (Jan 10, 2012)

IMO all poecilotheria sp. are beautiful in their own rights. why try to make a designer pokie in the 1st place?  im on the fence with the idea of crossbreeding, however hearing all the NEGATIVE effects, im swayed toward keeping the hobby un-tainted. (for lack of better wording)....   i will admit.... one day, when i have one to two of EVERY t known to man.. I will start cross breeding like a MO-FO for my own personal collection:sarcasm:


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## advan (Jan 10, 2012)

Has it been done? Yes. Should it be done? No.

Reactions: Award 1


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## Amoeba (Jan 10, 2012)

Don't muddy species up for fun.

Reactions: Like 1


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## charlesc84 (Jan 11, 2012)

advan said:


> Has it been done? Yes. Should it be done? No.


What species was it done with?


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## advan (Jan 11, 2012)

charlesc84 said:


> What species was it done with?


Without knowing your intentions of this thread, I will limit my answer to a few.

Reactions: Like 1


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## charlesc84 (Jan 12, 2012)

advan said:


> Without knowing your intentions of this thread, I will limit my answer to a few.


I've read of a few that it was done with... Like Smithi/Pedersoni.

I'm just curious to know if anyone has had any success with it. I don't have any intentions I just wanna know.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Amoeba (Jan 12, 2012)

Obviously you aren't the only person reading this thread so I'll say none :biggrin:


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## charlesc84 (Jan 12, 2012)

Amoeba said:


> Obviously you aren't the only person reading this thread so I'll say none :biggrin:


I don't breed nor do I ever want to. I don't see any sense in being over paranoid about a non issue. You guys are acting like just discussing this could be the end of the world. Hybrids are good and they help the hobby. Again, I'm not a breeder, I just want to know what's out there.


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## Amoeba (Jan 12, 2012)

charlesc84 said:


> I don't breed nor do I ever want to. I don't see any sense in being over paranoid about a non issue. You guys are acting like just discussing this could be the end of the world. Hybrids are good and they help the hobby. Again, I'm not a breeder, I just want to know what's out there.


This hobby has been burned by people and their hybrids. I completely disagree and think hybrids should remain out of this hobby.


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## charlesc84 (Jan 12, 2012)

Amoeba said:


> This hobby has been burned by people and their hybrids. I completely disagree and think hybrids should remain out of this hobby.


As long as there's reputable breeders (and there is) that continue to sell correctly identified pure breds, why not?


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## Amoeba (Jan 12, 2012)

charlesc84 said:


> As long as there's reputable breeders (and there is) that continue to sell correctly identified pure breds, why not?


How do you know you could tell the difference between a hybrid and one of its parents? How would one identify the difference between the pokies?


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## charlesc84 (Jan 12, 2012)

Amoeba said:


> How do you know you could tell the difference between a hybrid and one of its parents? How would one identify the difference between the pokies?


Well, assuming that the hybrid looks IDENTICAL to one of the parents, it would be impossible unless you bred them yourself.

Now, if they look different (which would be great) from either parent, that would introduce a great deal of novelty to the animal and thus make the breeding worth it. Also, I think it makes sense from a business stand point. Having an exclusive animal would = more $.

Reactions: Dislike 1 | Funny 1


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## ftorres (Jan 12, 2012)

Oh man. I hope I never have to ask for a pie pokie, or a bumble pokie..  I think we should leave the hybrids to other species, but not to Ts.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Amoeba (Jan 12, 2012)

The funny thing is if you look at the abortions people have made out of other spiders you'll see that they are just less attractive. Call me a eugenicist for spiders but the novelty isn't worth it. Also the "Mexican Fantasy" (Read: Mexican Nightmare) was given out as a freebie by a certain person instead of being sold for the big bucks you have in mind. I can tell the difference between two Poecilotheria species and wouldn't buy a hybrid, also if you gave me one I would put it in the freezer ASAP.

 Have a good night.


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## grayzone (Jan 12, 2012)

charlesc84 said:


> Well, assuming that the hybrid looks IDENTICAL to one of the parents, it would be impossible unless you bred them yourself.
> 
> Now, if they look different (which would be great) from either parent, that would introduce a great deal of novelty to the animal and thus make the breeding worth it. Also, I think it makes sense from a business stand point. Having an exclusive animal would = more $.


 if somethin is priceless, some could also assume its WORTHLESS.... i suggest you use the search function for hybrid threads. there is more cons than pros trust me


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## charlesc84 (Jan 12, 2012)

Amoeba said:


> The funny thing is if you look at the abortions people have made out of other spiders you'll see that they are just less attractive. Call me a eugenicist for spiders but the novelty isn't worth it. Also the "Mexican Fantasy" (Read: Mexican Nightmare) was given out as a freebie by a certain person instead of being sold for the big bucks you have in mind. I can tell the difference between two Poecilotheria species and wouldn't buy a hybrid, also if you gave me one I would put it in the freezer ASAP.
> 
> Have a good night.


I think people would buy them. Pokies are very popular everyone would want a hybrid. Imagine a P. Metallica the same size as P. Ornata? 
Also, why do you keep mentioning that you can tell the difference between 2 pokies? I don't see how this is relevant to my initial question.

---------- Post added 01-12-2012 at 01:57 AM ----------




grayzone said:


> if somethin is priceless, some could also assume its WORTHLESS.... i suggest you use the search function for hybrid threads. there is more cons than pros trust me


Ok, the other threads are pretty much people saying the same thing. Seems like paranoia to me.


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## Amoeba (Jan 12, 2012)

charlesc84 said:


> I think people would buy them. Pokies are very popular everyone would want a hybrid. Imagine a P. Metallica the same size as P. Ornata?
> Also, why do you keep mentioning that you can tell the difference between 2 pokies? I don't see how this is relevant to my initial question.


Well you can put me down for zero and I like pokies, if you did a little bit of research you'll find that many others feel the same. You are also basing all of this on the idea that someone would be able to breed two different species, but people have a hard enough time breeding two of the same. My point in bringing that up is that there isn't a tremendous amount of difference between the hobby species and hybridizing them is IMO pointless and stupid. 

P.S. I would rather own a P tigrinawesseli or P regalis than a P metallica. 

P.P.S. Nature is beautiful without us messing with it.


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## charlesc84 (Jan 12, 2012)

Amoeba said:


> Well you can put me down for zero and I like pokies, if you did a little bit of research you'll find that many others feel the same. You are also basing all of this on the idea that someone would be able to breed two different species, but people have a hard enough time breeding two of the same. My point in bringing that up is that there isn't a tremendous amount of difference between the hobby species and hybridizing them is IMO pointless and stupid.
> 
> P.S. I would rather own a P tigrinawesseli or P regalis than a P metallica.
> 
> P.P.S. Nature is beautiful without us messing with it.


People say they don't want them... I think they would cave in and order them though, also there's def. a huge interest in it judging by the amount of past threads started and the attention they get. I think there is a decent amount of variety in the amount of species available though. Look at the difference between Ornata, Miranda, Subfusca, Metallica etc... 
I think the fact that pokies evolved into so may different species shows how much potential there is there.
Nature isn't being messed with, they would stay in the hobby. Actually, due to habitat loss, they probably won't be in the wild forever anyway. Selling more and creating interest is good for the species.

---------- Post added 01-12-2012 at 02:17 AM ----------




ftorres said:


> Oh man. I hope I never have to ask for a pie pokie, or a bumble pokie..  I think we should leave the hybrids to other species, but not to Ts.


Color morphs and hybrids aren't the same thing.


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## Amoeba (Jan 12, 2012)

charlesc84 said:


> People say they don't want them... I think they would cave in and order them though, also there's def. a huge interest in it judging by the amount of past threads started and the attention they get. I think there is a decent amount of variety in the amount of species available though. Look at the difference between Ornata, Miranda, Subfusca, Metallica etc...
> I think the fact that pokies evolved into so may different species shows how much potential there is there.
> Nature isn't being messed with, they would stay in the hobby. Actually, due to habitat loss, they probably won't be in the wild forever anyway. Selling more and creating interest is good for the species.


I never said they couldn't be sold. If you think there is a decent amount of variety why are you proposing someone mess with it? There are 900+ species of tarantula and you think we need fake species :laugh: With an attitude like yours you are very correct they won't and I find this to be an unbelievably ignorant statement. 

I'm going to conclude by saying that I hope that everyone who tries to make a hybrid get's a munched male, a molting female, or mold in the sac. 

                                 -Lovingly signed a fierce paranoid advocate against hybrids and ignorance for a dollar. :biggrin:

Reactions: Like 1


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## charlesc84 (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm curious to see what they would look like, I think someone should just do it. I know I would buy one.


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## MattInNYC (Jan 12, 2012)

Amoeba said:


> P.S. I would rather own a P tigrinawesseli or P regalis than a P metallica.


Who are you kidding?  Everyone wants P. metallica.  The only reason I don't have one is because they cost at least twice as much as almost everything else (aside from rarer ones like P. smithi).


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## ShadowBlade (Jan 12, 2012)

MattInNYC said:


> Who are you kidding?  Everyone wants P. metallica.  The only reason I don't have one is because they cost at least twice as much as almost everything else (aside from rarer ones like P. smithi).


Negative ghostrider... I'm not a fan of them either. Just because a lot of people give in to hype doesn't mean they're all that freaking amazing. There are other way cooler spiders in my humble opinion.

-Sean


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## MattInNYC (Jan 12, 2012)

ShadowBlade said:


> Negative ghostrider... I'm not a fan of them either. Just because a lot of people give in to hype doesn't mean they're all that freaking amazing. There are other way cooler spiders in my humble opinion.
> 
> -Sean


Hype?  Really, they have all the other traits of Poecilotheria that most people seem to love, the proportions, the speed and agility, and they also look absolutely ridiculous.  Maybe this "hype" is the fact that they're more eye catching than almost any other tarantula?  Certainly if you show someone who's not familiar with tarantulas a bunch of pictures of species, and P. metallica is one of them, I guarantee most people will ask what that one is first.
 Also, coming here since 2006, I've seen quite a lot of threads about and pictures of P. metallica, it seems like a lot of people want them,  If the demand wasn't there the prices wouldn't be there either.
Don't get me wrong, I think if P. regalis was just coming into the hobby now you could probably sell those for $500+ too, because it also looks amazing.  I don't think that takes anything away from P. metallica though.

What do you actually dislike about them?  I like all the Poecilotheria species since there's such a wide variation of markings and colors, I can't even say that any one is my favorite.   
Come on though, being into tarantulas and saying P. metallica isn't that great is kind of like being into cars and not appreciating a high revving V12.  Even if it's not your favorite, objectively it's pretty impressive.


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## jayefbe (Jan 12, 2012)

charlesc84 said:


> I think people would buy them. Pokies are very popular everyone would want a hybrid. Imagine a P. Metallica the same size as P. Ornata?
> Also, why do you keep mentioning that you can tell the difference between 2 pokies? I don't see how this is relevant to my initial question.
> 
> ---------- Post added 01-12-2012 at 01:57 AM ----------
> ...


This just displays a pretty clear misunderstanding of genetics. Cross a P Metallica to an ornata, you'll end up with one butt ugly spider. The only way you could ever introgress one trait into another species would require many generations of selective breeding. Even if it was "super rad to the max" it's just not feasible, even from a "business" standpoint. 

I found what naturally occurs from millions of years of natural selection to be beautiful. No amount of selective breeding and hybridization will ever beat that. There's no point to it. None. 

Hybrids have and will muddy up this hobby. It's very easy to misidentify species already, hybrids will only make it worse until we finally have no idea what we have anymore. I will never buy from or sell to anyone who engages in hybridization or supports it. That's how strongly I feel about this issue.


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## charlesc84 (Jan 12, 2012)

jayefbe said:


> This just displays a pretty clear misunderstanding of genetics. Cross a P Metallica to an ornata, you'll end up with one butt ugly spider. The only way you could ever introgress one trait into another species would require many generations of selective breeding. Even if it was "super rad to the max" it's just not feasible, even from a "business" standpoint.
> 
> I found what naturally occurs from millions of years of natural selection to be beautiful. No amount of selective breeding and hybridization will ever beat that. There's no point to it. None.
> 
> Hybrids have and will muddy up this hobby. It's very easy to misidentify species already, hybrids will only make it worse until we finally have no idea what we have anymore. I will never buy from or sell to anyone who engages in hybridization or supports it. That's how strongly I feel about this issue.


What's the misunderstanding of genetics? How you personally know that crossing Metallica and Ornata would be ugly? 
Should people of different races not mix? 
I'm not saying crossing them would simply produce a huge P. Metallica, I'm just saying that there's a lot of possibilities with hybrids.


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## LittleSister (Jan 12, 2012)

charlesc84 said:


> Should people of different races not mix?


Human races are diffrent species? Wat.


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## NickC4 (Jan 12, 2012)

Amoeba said:


> I never said they couldn't be sold. If you think there is a decent amount of variety why are you proposing someone mess with it? There are 900+ species of tarantula and you think we need fake species :laugh: With an attitude like yours you are very correct they won't and I find this to be an unbelievably ignorant statement.
> 
> I'm going to conclude by saying that I hope that everyone who tries to make a hybrid get's a munched male, a molting female, or mold in the sac.
> 
> -Lovingly signed a fierce paranoid advocate against hybrids and ignorance for a dollar. :biggrin:


Amoeba, I totally agree. With over 900 spiecies, who needs more? And personnaly I think that it would be hard to tell the difference between a hybrid and a true pokie.


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## Shrike (Jan 12, 2012)

charlesc84 said:


> What's the misunderstanding of genetics? How you personally know that crossing Metallica and Ornata would be ugly?
> Should people of different races not mix?
> I'm not saying crossing them would simply produce a huge P. Metallica, I'm just saying that there's a lot of possibilities with hybrids.


This is not a good comparison.  Human beings of different races are still of the same species.  P. metallica and P. ornata are two separate species.


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## Amoeba (Jan 12, 2012)

Fun fact from a sociology major: Race is a social construction and has no real biological merit.

Also I'm not impressed by the P met.


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## Crysta (Jan 12, 2012)

charlesc84 said:


> *Should people of different races not mix? *
> I'm not saying crossing them would simply produce a huge P. Metallica, I'm just saying that there's a lot of possibilities with hybrids.


OMG...people thing that?....hahahha sorry...im laughing...omg... lol...

Dude...do you know what a hybrid is?

It's not like breeding a chiwawa to a dash hound.
 Domestic Dogs are all the same thing

It's not like mating the chinese with a south american
Humans, are all the same species... (hopefully) 

We and dogs just evolved based on our location of our genetics(some inbreeding for a few locations.)

Peockies...on the other hand... have a separate species... it's like breeding a Monkey to a chimp...or a gorilla to a human.(my examples are abit radical atm...lol).. basically.. Until otherwise proven they are different.


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## Hobo (Jan 12, 2012)

Hey guys, what breed of tarantula is your favorite?

My favorite color is blue, that's why they're my favorite breed of tarantula is a metallica.


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## jayefbe (Jan 12, 2012)

charlesc84 said:


> What's the misunderstanding of genetics? How you personally know that crossing Metallica and Ornata would be ugly?
> Should people of different races not mix?
> I'm not saying crossing them would simply produce a huge P. Metallica, I'm just saying that there's a lot of possibilities with hybrids.


I'm so glad that others pointed out your flawed logic already. Oh yeah, and of course I don't think that, I'm multi-racial myself. So is my girlfriend.

I'm assuming it will be ugly because most of the "attractive" traits are polygenic and only arose through thousands of generations of natural selection (and possibly drift) acting on isolated populations. Once you cross them, you're going to produce an intermediate form that is neither ornata, nor metallica. There are a lot of possibilities with hybrids, but none that I think are positive. All you'll end up with is unidentifiable, bland spiders that will eventually enter the breeding pool because people will forget what they have, or sell them as one of the parental species (already happened!). I'd hate to one day look at B. boehmei and long for the days when their legs were actually bright orange, or wish that Poecilotheria "species" actually looked different from one another like they did at one time. Those are the possibilities I see.


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## charlesc84 (Jan 12, 2012)

Yes I'm aware of what a hybrid is. I brought up the race issue to bring up a point.
The pokies are all very similar, what makes them different FOR THE MOST PART(yes I'm aware they're from different places) is their coloration. 
Calling them different species doesn't matter if they can still breed. 
You guys have this absurd desire to try and point out every perceived flaw in a statement you possibly can.
You all know what I'm trying to say, why do you act like you don't? 
I don't see the point in playing stupid. I want to see one INTELLIGENT  argument on why there shouldn't be hybrids. I bet not one of you has one.


Also, how do you know they would come out ugly? You don't know that, there's no way to know that without actually experimenting.

---------- Post added 01-12-2012 at 03:21 PM ----------




LittleSister said:


> Human races are diffrent species? Wat.


Did I say that? 
I said RACES not SPECIES.

Do you take every statement you hear this literally?


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## deltakiloworks (Jan 12, 2012)

Hobo said:


> Hey guys, what breed of tarantula is your favorite?
> 
> My favorite color is blue, that's why they're my favorite breed of tarantula is a metallica.


Lol, me Tarzan jump cliff...ouch..that smarts...me Tarzan jump another cliff...

nice one Hobo.


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## LittleSister (Jan 12, 2012)

charlesc84 said:


> Did I say that?
> I said RACES not SPECIES.
> 
> Do you take every statement you hear this literally?


Well you did compare mixing two diffrent species with mixing two diffrent races, so yes I took it that way :sarcasm:


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## catfishrod69 (Jan 12, 2012)

The main problem i see with crossbreeding is once you get all these new species floating around, what happens to the other ones...species that we love and have in the hobby good, will be forgotten, and dissapear forever. not really worth it...besides look at leapord geckos, and alot of snake species...its kind of rediculous... i admit that some of those snakes and leos look awesome, but really do we need 5,000 different colors of the same species?


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## Chris_Skeleton (Jan 12, 2012)

Sorry that some of us hobbyists actually want to buy a pure species rather than P. miranda x ornata x subfusca. There's no point in hybridizing and as time goes on pure species will fade out. How about you give us some of these benefits you are speaking of?

Tell me how intelligent this is:
You are advocating hybrids yet....


charlesc84 said:


> Actually, due to habitat loss, they probably won't be in the wild forever anyway. Selling more and creating interest is good for the species.


So because they probably won't be in the wild too much longer we should take all the pure species and crossbreed them? I think you are the one who needs a better argument.

Reactions: Like 1


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## charlesc84 (Jan 12, 2012)

LittleSister said:


> Well you did compare mixing two diffrent species with mixing two diffrent races, so yes I took it that way :sarcasm:


It was just an analogy, maybe it wasn't the best one. It doesn't really matter though. 
No one has showed any proof that hybrid pokies are bad in any way, shape or from.  
When I see the proof I'll believe it, until then it's just paranoia.


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## catfishrod69 (Jan 12, 2012)

heck look at what they are doing with dogs now...taking some of the ugliest dumbest species and mixing them...man what i could do with some of those dogs, a burlap sack, concrete block and river....


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## deltakiloworks (Jan 12, 2012)

Sorry, back to the topic. I would agree with the others, that crossbreeding is definitely a bad idea. There are many T species out there that have yet to be discovered. Adding crossbreed in the mix would just complicate the classification and suborder of the current species.

So the answer is No..

No…

No…


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## charlesc84 (Jan 12, 2012)

Chris_Skeleton said:


> Sorry that some of us hobbyists actually want to buy a pure species rather than P. miranda x ornata x subfusca. There's no point in hybridizing and as time goes on pure species will fade out. How about you give us some of these benefits you are speaking of?
> 
> Tell me how intelligent this is:
> You are advocating hybrids yet....
> ...


That's not the only reason to produce them.

Hybrids create novelty, which creates interest, it makes people care.  Also, I don't need an argument. No one can deny the money they would bring in. 

Why is everyone assuming hybrids would be the death of the pure breeds? Can someone explain that to me?

If it's such a bad idea, and no one would want them, then why assume it would kill out the pure breeds?


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## mtyrrell (Jan 12, 2012)

charlesc84 said:


> Yes I'm aware of what a hybrid is. I brought up the race issue to bring up a point.
> The pokies are all very similar, what makes them different FOR THE MOST PART(yes I'm aware they're from different places) is their coloration.
> Calling them different species doesn't matter if they can still breed.
> You guys have this absurd desire to try and point out every perceived flaw in a statement you possibly can.
> ...


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## BrettG (Jan 12, 2012)

charlesc84 said:


> I'm curious to see what they would look like, I think someone should just do it. I know I would buy one.


You have not listened to one word as to why hybrids can really screw this hobby up. Go find a different hobby,please. Last thing we need is fools buying hybrids,and then breeding THOSE,and totally mucking up this genus,they way Avicularia is. Do some research,and LISTEN to what is being said to you here. There is NO PLACE for hybrids in this hobby.Period....This whole thread just reminds me of Sharpfang and his damn albovagans..


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## Chris_Skeleton (Jan 12, 2012)

charlesc84 said:


> Hybrids create novelty, which creates interest, it makes people care.  Also, I don't need an argument. No one can deny the money they would bring in.


Sorry I guess I had the misconception that nobody was interested in tarantulas nor cared about them. Which is made all the more obvious by the existence of this forum.

 Yepp, you got me. 



> If it's such a bad idea, and no one would want them, then why assume it would kill out the pure breeds?


If nobody wants them, why do it? Also, if hybridizing becomes popular, then idiots would be buying them to crossbreed. Where do you think breeders get their spiders? From other breeders and hobbyists who have what they need. When there are no more P. regalis, breeders won't be able to breed them.


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## catfishrod69 (Jan 12, 2012)

exactly...and what happens when all these hybrids get mixed up, and someone buys a MM to breed with their pure species, and the MM is a hybrid. then nobody can tell for sure, and they breed them, and make more hybrids, and then pretty soon all of the pure species are gone...and its not like we can just call africa and tell them to ship some more because we had a labeling problem....


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## Amoeba (Jan 12, 2012)

Hybrids create more confusion than they do novelty, and novelty is how every pet shop has a poorly kept T sitting in a dusty corner. So I'll keep my pure OG Indian beauties not something someone looking for a dollar created in their basement.

Reactions: Like 1


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## deltakiloworks (Jan 12, 2012)

charlesc84 said:


> It was just an analogy, maybe it wasn't the best one. It doesn't really matter though.
> No one has showed any proof that hybrid pokies are bad in any way, shape or from.
> When I see the proof I'll believe it, until then it's just paranoia.





charlesc84 said:


> That's not the only reason to produce them.
> 
> Hybrids create novelty, which creates interest, it makes people care.  Also, I don't need an argument. No one can deny the money they would bring in.
> 
> ...


True in some of your statements, but think of the inter-breeding and hybridizing bees for example, hybridize bees could produce desirable qualities such as high honey production, breeding, behavior, etc. But there is also a downside to it such as the man-made breeding of Africanized honey bee variety, they tend to be more aggressive. Along the way there will be an advantage and disadvantage of having a T hybrid. So ask yourself, what is your goal in making a hybrid pokie?


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## jayefbe (Jan 12, 2012)

charlesc84 said:


> Yes I'm aware of what a hybrid is. I brought up the race issue to bring up a point.
> The pokies are all very similar, what makes them different FOR THE MOST PART(yes I'm aware they're from different places) is their coloration.
> Calling them different species doesn't matter if they can still breed.
> You guys have this absurd desire to try and point out every perceived flaw in a statement you possibly can.
> ...


You're the one who made the comparison. It was not an intelligent one. Instead of supporting your argument with evidence or an educated statement, you implied that anyone who is against hybridization is somehow racist. That's not just an incorrect comparison, it's a cheap way to argue your point of view. Comparing hybridizing different species to interracial humans is just preposterous and ridiculous. I'm sorry that you can't admit that it was a poor comparison, but if anyone made a statement like that, they'd be shown their error very quickly. 

Also, I have made very valid reasons for why I do not support hybridization. Very valid. More valid than yours in fact (uh, it'll create novelty, and uh, people will buy more), so get off the whole "INTELLIGENT" argument thing. If you can't learn to actually READ someone's posts and actually analyze their statements and assess them, then there's no point in having any sort of conversation with you.

I don't KNOW that an ornata x metallica will be ugly. I would be willing to bet a LOT of money that it would be ugly based on my knowledge of genetics and the inheritance of traits. Also, it's likely a moot point, since I would be VERY surprised if they are even interfertile. That's what tends to happen when one thing is from Sri Lanka and the other is from India for thousands of generations. I mean, I've yet to hear of a successful eggsac from a P. subfusca "highland" x P. subfusca "lowland" pairing. 

Which brings me to another point. The designation of species is WAY more complicated than people going around saying "dur...this one is a different color, it's a different species". Also, just because something CAN breed in unnatural circumstances (like a laboratory or someone's bedroom) does not mean they are not highly isolated independent species. It is much more complex than what you are making it out to be. I suggest you don't make claims about things you don't understand. 




charlesc84 said:


> That's not the only reason to produce them.
> 
> Hybrids create novelty, which creates interest, it makes people care.  Also, I don't need an argument. No one can deny the money they would bring in.
> 
> ...


Really? Hybrids are really going to change the hobby because they create "novelty" and "interest"? Please, if a bright blue spider and over 900 species isn't enough "novelty" for you, then you weren't meant for the hobby to begin with. You're clinging to a ridiculous argument.


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## Shrike (Jan 12, 2012)

charlesc84 said:


> No one can deny the money they would bring in.


I can.  I wouldn't pay a dime for your hypothetical super metallica.

Reactions: Like 1


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## le-thomas (Jan 12, 2012)

Tarantulas have a lot of babies. When you cross-breed, you get a lot of undesirable and muddy specimens.


charlesc84 said:


> Hybrids are good and they help the hobby.


No.


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## jim777 (Jan 12, 2012)

Amoeba said:


> Hybrids create more confusion than they do novelty, *and novelty is how every pet shop has a poorly kept T sitting in a dusty corner.* So I'll keep my pure OG Indian beauties not something someone looking for a dollar created in their basement.


This is a VERY important point. I went into a pet store last night that had a dead T. stirmi in its empty waterbowl. I had seen it in the exact same position about 10 days ago, but I had thought it was alive then. No one noticed it was dead in its cage for days and days, not the customers, not the staff...nobody. Could that happen with a parrot, or a big Oscar, or a bearded dragon or a kitten? I think we all know it couldn't.

Not everyone wants Ts, it's a niche market. That should be plain enough to anyone and everyone who has one. Corrupting this hobby of ours will destroy it for those of us are into it and the animals.

Reactions: Like 1


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## zonbonzovi (Jan 12, 2012)

I can't find the goat smiley?  This one seems awfully hungry...you know it won't let you cross the bridge until it has eaten.  Here buddy, buddy(bleats soothingly).  Yeah, that's right.  Go ahead:

http://www.supercoloring.com/wp-content/thumbnail/2009_01/goat-16-coloring-page.gif

Mmmm.  So young and tender!


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## MattInNYC (Jan 12, 2012)

Amoeba said:


> Also I'm not impressed by the P met.


Why not?  I'm used to reading a lot of objective product reviews.  So objectively what about the species do you dislike?  Or what are you "not impressed by"?  
It just seems like a weird attitude to me for someone who is interested in any kind of animal.  The immense variety of species in the trade is one of the things that makes this hobby so interesting and causes people to keep buying (hoarding in a lot of cases).
There's no species of tarantula out there that I'd say doesn't impress me, I might like the looks or behavior of some more than others, but they're all pretty amazing.   Personally I don't keep burrowing tarantulas because I want to be able to see my animals on a daily basis and easily take pictures of them, that's an objective reason.

In my experience just about anyone who is really passionate about a given subject is interested in pretty much every facet of it.  For example, I'm into cars, and it's pretty easy to separate someone who's just a fanboy from someone who's actually passionate about them, they're the people who will be saying a certain brand sucks rather than appreciating the variety of different manufacturers having different ways of accomplishing the same goal. 
Same thing with cameras, the people who get involved in brand wars like Canon vs. Nikon are the same people who really have no appreciation for photography or the technology involved in camera production.  
By the same token, I can't say I know any actual entomologists who would say something like "I'm not impressed with ___ species".

So do you just not like the color blue?  Or is P. metallica just too popular and too "hyped" for you to allow yourself to like it?  With the elitist attitude displayed by a lot of people on this forum that wouldn't surprise me.

Yeah I'm ranting, I don't care, the amount of negativity on this board is ridiculous.  Sorry I'm not cool enough to make a point of mentioning how a certain species doesn't impress me.  I guess I don't have refined taste because I think all tarantula species are awesome.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Arachnopets (Jan 12, 2012)

*Admin Note*

Oh look, another cross breeding thread. :sarcasm:

Nope, we don't need anymore of those around here ...  :wall:

Debby

Reactions: Like 3


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