# My OBT usambara starburst isn't aggressive yet



## ArachnaeEsoterica (May 25, 2016)

The sling is getting bigger, I put him in the taller tupperware for safety. he's growing slowly but surely; I prodded him with a pencil to see if he'd bite it but hes shy. Is that normal?


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## Venom1080 (May 25, 2016)

um, yes. dont worry, he'll turn psycho soon enough.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2


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## Flexzone (May 25, 2016)

Don't poke your specimen with a pencil, If you need to rehouse or move it to get boluses out then use the ends of a paintbrush. They require deep dry substrate with a large waterdish they will Web up there enclosure when given the chance.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 5


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## 14pokies (May 25, 2016)

Some are more tolerant at disturbances than others.. They are the exception not the norm though.. 

Just remember temperments can change with a molt,overnight or moment by moment.. Same goes for all Ts..  Never get complacent..

Reactions: Agree 10


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## EulersK (May 25, 2016)

Firstly, please don't poke your spiders. You wouldn't like it if a giant prodded you to see if you fought back. 

Secondly, I personally hate this species for exactly what you're describing. New hobbyists get them as juvies only to find that they're not aggressive at all - perhaps only skittish. "Apparently people were blowing their aggression out of proportion," they think. 

Believe me when I say that it will grow into the aggression. One day, after a molt, this will turn into the infamous Orange Bitey Thing we all talk about. And then it will fight back at the giant poking it with a stick. 

For this species, larger enclosures are better. Giving it plenty of room makes it less defensive of its claim of land, resulting in fewer bites and fewer escapes.

Reactions: Like 9 | Agree 3 | Informative 2 | Award 2


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## cold blood (May 25, 2016)

EulersK said:


> Firstly, please don't poke your spiders. You wouldn't like it if a giant prodded you to see if you fought back.
> 
> Secondly, I personally hate this species for exactly what you're describing. New hobbyists get them as juvies only to find that they're not aggressive at all - perhaps only skittish. "Apparently people were blowing their aggression out of proportion," they think.
> 
> ...


Right, a baby bull is docile when its young for god's sake....you can't be expecting a baby anything to act like its adult counterpart.   Heck, I've never had any aggression issues from tiny babies, but by high school its a whole different animal.

I don't get why a taller enclosure would be done for safety.   I hope the taller container is filled most of the way with substrate, cause then it would make sense.

And for the love of God, don't prod spiders.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 6 | Funny 2 | Love 1


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## mistertim (May 25, 2016)

ArachnaeEsoterica said:


> The sling is getting bigger, I put him in the taller tupperware for safety. he's growing slowly but surely; I prodded him with a pencil to see if he'd bite it but hes shy. Is that normal?


No. Prodding your pet with a pencil to see if it will attack you is not normal human behavior.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 4 | Funny 9 | Creative 1


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## ArachnaeEsoterica (May 25, 2016)

Its better than using your finger and I've left him completely alone since he started webbing his enclosure.


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## Toxoderidae (May 25, 2016)

ArachnaeEsoterica said:


> Its better than using your finger and I've left him completely alone since he started webbing his enclosure.


How about don't prod it at all?

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 11 | Funny 1 | Award 1


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## Rogerpoco (May 25, 2016)

Again,My mistake(I mean,OBT)has never shown aggression,I've mentioned that.
But to be fair-I've never,ever mucked about with it in a way(...pencil...Man...)that would piss it off,so my(relatively low)opinion of their aggresion may be uneducated.


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## gypsy cola (May 25, 2016)

if the set up is correct for a tarantula, most of the time you won't encounter "aggressive" behavior. Most of the time, they will just hide and let you do your thing as is it suppose to be. If a tarantula feels threatened more species are prone to be defensive. "defensive" is the key word.

I have never encountered an old world I would consider aggressive/defensive, just sensitive.

Now I have encountered "aggressive" new worlds that I would normally associate that particular species as being docile only because I am shocked that the spiders gave me a non-positive response.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Crone Returns (May 25, 2016)

ArachnaeEsoterica said:


> Its better than using your finger and I've left him completely alone since he started webbing his enclosure.


Get a long handled brush. You're gonna need it. That and swat gear.


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## viper69 (May 25, 2016)

ArachnaeEsoterica said:


> I prodded him with a pencil to see if he'd bite it but hes shy. Is that normal


Yes, it's normal behavior for people, like yourself, who don't truly care about the animals in their care. People who *CARE* about animals don't exhibit your pathetic behavior.

Hey Jiacobe what part of the above did you disagree with? HAHAHAHAHAHAH
Do you _poke_ your Ts too, how's that working for ya? HAHAHAHAHHAAH

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3 | Disagree 1 | Funny 4


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## Poec54 (May 25, 2016)

ArachnaeEsoterica said:


> Its better than using your finger and I've left him completely alone since he started webbing his enclosure.



Maybe you need poke it with your finger to find out about the respect you should have for it.  We just had someone within the past week attach a video showing a guy doing exactly what you are to an OBT in a cup, and it raced out in a millisecond and bit him.  Does that seem like a good idea to you?

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 3 | Funny 1


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## Toxoderidae (May 25, 2016)

viper69 said:


> Yes, it's normal behavior for people, like yourself, who don't truly care about the animals in their care. People who *CARE* about animals don't exhibit your pathetic behavior.
> 
> Hey Jiacobe what part of the above did you disagree with? HAHAHAHAHAHAH
> Do you _poke_ your Ts too, how's that working for ya? HAHAHAHAHHAAH


Did you seriously dislike that @jiacovazzi ? This Arachne dude lost privileges before, and has spoken about how he's one of those "I want spiders because they look badass" fellows. Don't defend him.

Reactions: Dislike 1 | Agree 1


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## EulersK (May 25, 2016)

Toxoderidae said:


> Did you seriously dislike that @jiacovazzi ? This Arachne dude lost privileges before, and has spoken about how he's one of those "I want spiders because they look badass" fellows. Don't defend him.


Really? I was about to ask people to calm down, but apparently I'm out of the loop.


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## Toxoderidae (May 25, 2016)

EulersK said:


> Really? I was about to ask people to calm down, but apparently I'm out of the loop.


Yeah.. he also loves to swear. He doesn't really care about spiders, and didn't seem to read the rules.


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## Vanessa (May 25, 2016)

Now I'm itching to see the video where the idiot gets bitten for poking his spider. It's rare that Karma actually makes a, well overdue, appearance over on YouTube.

Reactions: Agree 4 | Clarification Please 1


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## mistertim (May 25, 2016)

Toxoderidae said:


> Did you seriously dislike that @jiacovazzi ? This Arachne dude lost privileges before, and has spoken about how he's one of those "I want spiders because they look badass" fellows. Don't defend him.


I don't think he's defending him so much as he's holding a grudge against people he argued with in the past.

Not that that is any better.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 1 | Funny 2


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## Tenevanica (May 25, 2016)

viper69 said:


> Yes, it's normal behavior for people, like yourself, who don't truly care about the animals in their care. People who *CARE* about animals don't exhibit your pathetic behavior.
> 
> Hey Jiacobe what part of the above did you disagree with? HAHAHAHAHAHAH
> Do you _poke_ your Ts too, how's that working for ya? HAHAHAHAHHAAH


Dude, no need to call another person names. Educate. We were all new at some point...

EDIT: I just learned what member we're dealing with. Still, you shouldn't accuse someone of being uncaring because they are ignorant.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


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## Toxoderidae (May 25, 2016)

The only reason I have zero faith in OP is how he's expressed his feelings before, and how he ignored us and just was a rude person. He doesn't care about the spiders or the hobby, just how mean they are and how they look. He wants cred and to look cool, not actually be interested.

Reactions: Clarification Please 1


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## 14pokies (May 25, 2016)

14pokies said:


> Thanks man...


Wow man.. That went bad fast... Judging from post 7 I think it was he is an expert and we are hypocritical elitists.. Doesn't need my help time to push the button...

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1


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## mistertim (May 25, 2016)

14pokies said:


> Just give up man it's like knocking on a pumpkin hopeing its gonna spit a snickers bar at you..
> 
> Hes just going to drag you into fight that the mods will take notice of.. Not worth it man..


Yeah, good call.

Reactions: Like 1


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## DreamHaze (May 25, 2016)

14pokies said:


> Allways turns in to one... Anyone body that agrees is looked at as a mob and then jiacovazzi jumps in to rescue the person he percieves as weaker and calls the rest of us bullys and bandwagoners then he trys to police the thread...


I thought I was the only one that noticed that.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 3 | Disagree 1


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## jiacovazzi (May 25, 2016)

DreamHaze said:


> I thought I was the only one that noticed that.


You disagreed with educating over attacking. That's all the indication I need of how reasonable and subjective you are.

Reactions: Dislike 2


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## EulersK (May 25, 2016)

jiacovazzi said:


> You disagreed with educating over attacking. That's all the indication I need of how reasonable and subjective you are.


Can you disagree with my first post in this thread? I was one of the first to jump on the bandwagon, and I'm feeling really left out right now

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 5 | Creative 2


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## Toxoderidae (May 25, 2016)

@jiacovazzi rather than say "educate than attack" over and over again like a broken record, Why not explain yourself? There's even evidence of Arachnae not caring, so why even try to defend him when we've tried to help numerous times?

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1


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## mistertim (May 25, 2016)

EulersK said:


> Can you disagree with my first post in this thread? I was one of the first to jump on the bandwagon, and I'm feeling really left out right now


Get off my bandwagon, man. Seat's taken.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 6


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## 14pokies (May 25, 2016)

EulersK said:


> Can you disagree with my first post in this thread? I was one of the first to jump on the bandwagon, and I'm feeling really left out right now


Haha you win..

Reactions: Disagree 1 | Funny 1


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## jiacovazzi (May 25, 2016)

Toxoderidae said:


> @jiacovazzi rather than say "educate than attack" over and over again like a broken record, Why not explain yourself? There's even evidence of Arachnae not caring, so why even try to defend him when we've tried to help numerous times?


Because that's all that has to be said. Don't dismiss it, it's true. 
You shouldn't attack someone, that's what's pathetic. 

I encourage you all to think for yourselves, And not to follow this herd mentality.

Reactions: Dislike 3 | Funny 2


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## 14pokies (May 25, 2016)

jiacovazzi said:


> You disagreed with educating over attacking. That's all the indication I need of how reasonable and subjective you are.





jiacovazzi said:


> You disagreed with educating over attacking. That's all the indication I need of how reasonable and subjective you are.


Its his opinion...you shouldn't be so judgemental...

Reactions: Agree 1


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## jiacovazzi (May 25, 2016)

14pokies said:


> Its his opinion...you shouldn't be so judgemental...


Educating is less important than attacking, got it.

Reactions: Dislike 2


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## 14pokies (May 25, 2016)

jiacovazzi said:


> Educating is less important than attacking, got it.


Your jumping to conclusions

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Disagree 1


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## jiacovazzi (May 25, 2016)

14pokies said:


> Your jumping to conclusions


Speaking of education, it's "You're"

Reactions: Funny 1


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## EulersK (May 25, 2016)

Okay! My  popcorn finished popping! Who would like to throw the first chair?

Reactions: Funny 3 | Love 1 | Lollipop 1


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## 14pokies (May 25, 2016)

jiacovazzi said:


> Speaking of education, it's "You're"


y tank u kin sir...

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 3


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## jiacovazzi (May 25, 2016)

14pokies said:


> Your jumping to conclusions


Actually I'm done here. I draw the line arguing with a grown human who doesn't know when to use your and you're. Have a good night

Reactions: Dislike 2


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## DreamHaze (May 25, 2016)

I've never liked grammar teachers.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 4


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## Toxoderidae (May 25, 2016)

14pokies said:


> y tank u kin sir...


Look you drove him off! Ruined the fun mate.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## 14pokies (May 25, 2016)

jiacovazzi said:


> Actually I'm done here. I draw the line arguing with a grown human who doesn't know when to use your and you're. Have a good night


Who was arguing?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Jones0911 (May 26, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> Maybe you need poke it with your finger to find out about the respect you should have for it.  We just had someone within the past week attach a video showing a guy doing exactly what you are to an OBT in a cup, and it raced out in a millisecond and bit him.  Does that seem like a good idea to you?



Where can I see this video ???

Reactions: Agree 4


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## BorisTheSpider (May 26, 2016)

And now to return to the topic at hand :

*To the OP*  - by all means continue the mishandling of that OBT . However I hope that you understand that they are more then capable of easily running up that pencil and landing three or four solid bites before you could even hope to react . I would describe the pain as similar to being jabbed with a red hot needle . Don't worry the swelling and burning won't last more then a few days . Some people have reported feeling light headed and nauseous but I'm sure you'll be okay . In the two plus decades of herding OBTs I can say that they are possibly one of the most unforgiving animals that I can think off . Millions of years of evolution in one of the World's most inhospitable regions have taught them to be the ultimate OW bad-ass .  They are more then happy to show you that . Please keep Ts responsibly .

*To everyone else* - Heed the warning that Hobo gave the other day about thread becoming nothing but bickering and pissing contests . Trust me when I say back in the day they use to hand out bans like they were hot cakes . It is unwise to anger a staff member . Even old Boris got a time out once or twice .

Reactions: Like 7 | Agree 1 | Helpful 1 | Award 2


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## Formerphobe (May 26, 2016)

I've raised four OBT from sling to adult (3.1).  None of them ever offered a threat pose, being more inclined to flight than fight. I also never poked or prodded or did anything to instigate any defensive behaviors from them. My adult female is about 6 years old, her last exuvia measured right at 6 inches. She usually just moseys into her webbed labyrinth when she feels her lid being opened. Occasionally she'll sit out for photos.
I offer her space and respect. A couple of things I do habitually around all my spiders- I usually wear a surgical mask to avoid breathing on them ( and to avoid any errant urticating hairs from NW), and I never reach over the top of an enclosure. I always approach enclosures from the side(s) so as to minimize any shadow effect or air current that would be indicative to them of a predator.


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## Methal (May 26, 2016)

ArachnaeEsoterica said:


> I prodded him with a pencil to see if he'd bite it but hes shy. Is that normal?


hehe, I have a scar from my "shy" OBT on my right hand from doing this exact same thing. I actually contemplated cutting my arm off to ease the pain he caused me.

I would HIGHLY advise not poking of things what move faster than light, and have fangs and lava venom.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## advan (May 26, 2016)

MOD NOTE: Once again a thread goes off topic and has to be cleaned up do to childish bickering. Warnings have been sent out and anymore of this pathetic behavior will result in suspensions. Tread lightly.......

Reactions: Like 1 | Award 1


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## BorisTheSpider (May 26, 2016)

Methal said:


> I would HIGHLY advise not poking of things what move faster than light, and have fangs and lava venom.


Lava venom , that is the perfect discription.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Poec54 (May 26, 2016)

Methal said:


> hehe, I have a scar from my "shy" OBT on my right hand from doing this exact same thing. I actually contemplated cutting my arm off to ease the pain he caused me.
> 
> I would HIGHLY advise not poking of things what move faster than light, and have fangs and lava venom.


 
Many people don't realize how fast these situations can get out of control and leave you in a lot of pain.  20 years ago I had a *2" OBT* juvenile run out of it's cage & across the floor; I instinctively reached out and cupped my hand to stop it, thinking it would just hide under the shade of my hand while I grabbed a catch cup (after that, I always keep catch cups closer).  It never slowed down and ran over my hand instead; scratched my hand with it's fangs as it raced over.  It wasn't a bite, no puncture marks, just scratched the surface of my skin.  It immediately felt like I got several simultaneous wasp stings.  The pain and throbbing kept up for several hours.  For months after that, that finger was very stiff in the mornings, like arthritis.  Had that little spider sunk it's fangs in and given me a full dose of venom, it would been a much more painful experience.  I can't imagine getting bitten by an adult.  I love OW's, and have a majority of them, but I _*never*_ want to get bitten.  I don't understand people who push their luck with them, thinking_ 'Nothing will happen'_, or if it does, it's _'No big deal.'_  Speed, unpredictability, and venom are what's kept OW's alive for millions of years against some relentless and formidable predators.  That formula works.  You don't want to find out how well it works.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 4 | Informative 2


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## BorisTheSpider (May 26, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> Many people don't realize how fast these situations can get out of control and leave you in a lot of pain.  20 years ago I had a *2" OBT* juvenile run out of it's cage & across the floor; I instinctively reached out and cupped my hand to stop it, thinking it would just hide under the shade of my hand while I grabbed a catch cup (after that, I always keep catch cups closer).  It never slowed down and ran over my hand instead; scratched my hand with it's fangs as it raced over.  It wasn't a bite, no puncture marks, just scratched the surface of my skin.  It immediately felt like I got several simultaneous wasp stings.  The pain and throbbing kept up for several hours.  For months after that, that finger was very stiff in the mornings, like arthritis.  Had that little spider sunk it's fangs in and given me a full dose of venom, it would been a much more painful experience.  I can't imagine getting bitten by an adult.  I love OW's, and have a majority of them, but I _*never*_ want to get bitten.  I don't understand people who push their luck with them, thinking_ 'Nothing will happen'_, or if it does, it's _'No big deal.'_  Speed, unpredictability, and venom are what's kept OW's alive for millions of years against some relentless and formidable predators.  That formula works.  You don't want to find out how well it works.


Next to a Lionfish sting , an OBT bite is the worse thing I've felt . However the only reason I put the Lionfish at the top is because the sting seemed like it hurt for a month. The OBT was an adult and it was just a quick top off of her water bowl  . It happened so fast that I almost wasn't sure I had been bitten . Then the fire shot up my arm and I knew for sure .

Reactions: Like 2


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## Chris LXXIX (May 26, 2016)

Jones0911 said:


> Where can I see this video ???


Here:






If you ask me, he/she asked for that.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


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## Chris LXXIX (May 26, 2016)

@ArachnaeEsoterica

They aren't "aggressive" but defensive. Aggressive is a very wrong term to use, just exactly like "docile" or such.
Probably (probably... that's their behavior, in general, but always depends) within some molts you will notice a difference in that.

Anyway, enjoy your 'OBT', they are wonderful _Theraphosidae_, and stay/remain safe, always. That's always the best, for you and your eight legged ;-)

Reactions: Agree 2


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## jiacovazzi (May 26, 2016)

BorisTheSpider said:


> Next to a Lionfish sting , an OBT bite is the worse thing I've felt . However the only reason I put the Lionfish at the top is because the sting seemed like it hurt for a month. The OBT was an adult and it was just a quick top off of her water bowl  . It happened so fast that I almost wasn't sure I had been bitten . Then the fire shot up my arm and I knew for sure .


Lionfish have become invasive in south FL. We used to catch them and have lionfish derbies to try to eradicate them. Isn't doing much good. I wouldn't ever want to be stung by one.


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## BorisTheSpider (May 26, 2016)

jiacovazzi said:


> Lionfish have become invasive in south FL. We used to catch them and have lionfish derbies to try to eradicate them. Isn't doing much good. I wouldn't ever want to be stung by one.


I was just a kid working my first job in a pet shop . I reached into a tank to grab a net that has been dropped in . I never saw the darn fish but sure did feel him . My boss grabbed me and dragged me into the backroom and ran hot water over the injection site . Not boiling mind you just very hot . He said it would begin to breakdown the proteins in the  venom . So try to imagine receiving a burning painful  sting and then running hot water over it . It sounds like something Steve O would do .


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## jiacovazzi (May 26, 2016)

Yep that's what I was told too if we got stung whilst scuba diving. Sorry you had to experience that.


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## Chris LXXIX (May 26, 2016)

jiacovazzi said:


> Lionfish have become invasive in south FL. We used to catch them and have lionfish derbies to try to eradicate them. Isn't doing much good. I wouldn't ever want to be stung by one.


Yeah, those are one of the nightmare of sea divers... along with _Tetradontidae _(don't know their common name in English, we call those in Italy "Pesce palla" "Ball fish") and _Synanceia verrucosa_ ("stonefish") a friend of mine in Egypt years ago got a close call with him, lol, he was on pure "luck at it's finest" mode on.

Reactions: Like 1


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## jiacovazzi (May 26, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> Yeah, those are one of the nightmare of sea divers... along with _Tetradontidae _(don't know their common name in English, we call those in Italy "Pesce palla" "Ball fish") and _Synanceia verrucosa_ ("stonefish") a friend of mine in Egypt years ago got a close call with him, lol, he was on pure "luck at it's finest" mode on.


Pufferfish>?

Reactions: Like 1


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## cold blood (May 26, 2016)

Don't forget about barracuda.....a fish with a large head full of sharp teeth that's attracted to anything flashy...like diving masks.  The damage they can and do cause is horrible.


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## jiacovazzi (May 26, 2016)

cold blood said:


> Don't forget about barracuda.....a fish with a large head full of sharp teeth that's attracted to anything flashy...like diving masks.  The damage they can and do cause is horrible.


 We used to swim with barracudas all the time around us and it was pretty creepy because they would follow you closely but if you approach them they would flee.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Kymura (May 26, 2016)

Quick question on the subject of OBT's. Is there another T with those basic looks that's slightly less defensive? I adore their coloration but the idea of something as quick as my psalmos with an old world bite first attitude doesn't seem all that enjoyable to me. Plus so many folks say they tend to be pet holes. 
I don't mind a bit of attitude, just not looking for extreme attitude.


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## Toxoderidae (May 26, 2016)

jiacovazzi said:


> We used to swim with barracudas all the time around us and it was pretty creepy because they would follow you closely but if you approach them they would flee.


Got chased by one in Jamaica. Things scared the daylights out of me.

Reactions: Like 1


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## viper69 (May 26, 2016)

Kymura said:


> with those basic looks


Define "basic looks"


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## Kymura (May 26, 2016)

viper69 said:


> Define "basic looks"


Brightly colored, beautifully marked carapice and abdomen. I honestly love how they look. Doesn't have to be orange. Just something as eye catching as they are would be a plus. Other then a GBB. They just don't appeal.


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## Sarkhan42 (May 26, 2016)

Kymura said:


> Brightly colored, beautifully marked carapice and abdomen. I honestly love how they look. Doesn't have to be orange. Just something as eye catching as they are would be a plus.


A. minatrix comes to mind for me, but I may just have them on the brain because they're the next T I'll be picking up.


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## viper69 (May 26, 2016)

Kymura said:


> Brightly colored, beautifully marked carapice and abdomen. I honestly love how they look. Doesn't have to be orange. Just something as eye catching as they are would be a plus. Other then a GBB. They just don't appeal.



A. versicolor (but you have it) has the one of the most beautiful carapaces and iridescence out there, even males are lookers. OBTs are extremely bright, probably the brightest T out there IMO. So it's hard to come up with a close 2nd that is affordable.

There are some others that are very colorful, but they tend to be underground most of the time so I didn't recommend them.

Reactions: Like 2


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## viper69 (May 26, 2016)

Sarkhan42 said:


> A. minatrix comes to mind for me, but I may just have them on the brain because they're the next T I'll be picking up.


I've owned a few of these, and you won't regret it. My AF is gorgeous and the abdominal colors/pattern haven't changed. They are one of the faster growing Avics too.

Reactions: Like 2


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## jiacovazzi (May 26, 2016)

Kymura said:


> Quick question on the subject of OBT's. Is there another T with those basic looks that's slightly less defensive? I adore their coloration but the idea of something as quick as my psalmos with an old world bite first attitude doesn't seem all that enjoyable to me. Plus so many folks say they tend to be pet holes.
> I don't mind a bit of attitude, just not looking for extreme attitude.


Orphnaecus phillipinus

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1


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## Kymura (May 26, 2016)

Sarkhan42 said:


> A. minatrix comes to mind for me, but I may just have them on the brain because they're the next T I'll be picking up.


This is actually next on my must have list. Didn't have a classic smithi type yet so have a juvenile B emilia coming first. 



jiacovazzi said:


> Orphnaecus phillipinus


Going to do some research on these guys.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Chris LXXIX (May 26, 2016)

jiacovazzi said:


> Orphnaecus phillipinus


That was my guess as well, man, yet she said "no pet holes" ah ah so good luck searching one

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## Kymura (May 26, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> That was my guess as well, man, yet she said "no pet holes" ah ah so good luck searching one


Rofl! Other then being orange. They are a definite no. If I want an obligate burrower I'll get a nice trap door. Least feeding day would be exciting. 
Thanks all, honestly appreciate the advice.

Reactions: Like 1


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## viper69 (May 26, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> That was my guess as well, man, yet she said "no pet holes" ah ah so good luck searching one


You beat me to it Chris haha

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Tar (May 27, 2016)

Ummm can I say that why are you waiting for your tarantula to be defensive ?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Andrea82 (May 27, 2016)

Kymura said:


> Brightly colored, beautifully marked carapice and abdomen. I honestly love how they look. Doesn't have to be orange. Just something as eye catching as they are would be a plus. Other then a GBB. They just don't appeal.


If you already have Psalmopoeus, and don't mind some attitude, maybe Tapinauchenius gigas is a good choice. They're bright orange,arboreal so no pet hole. They are fast though but without the potent venom.


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## Kymura (May 27, 2016)

Andrea82 said:


> If you already have Psalmopoeus, and don't mind some attitude, maybe Tapinauchenius gigas is a good choice. They're bright orange,arboreal so no pet hole. They are fast though but without the potent venom.


Absolutely perfect! Love arboreals anyway. Going to read up a bit more but I think this is a winner.  
Thanks for the suggestion.


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## Andrea82 (May 27, 2016)

Kymura said:


> Absolutely perfect! Love arboreals anyway. Going to read up a bit more but I think this is a winner.
> Thanks for the suggestion.


You're welcome! I have T.violaceus myself, haven't regretted getting her at all. If you would like some extensive info, @awiec  is the person to go to

Reactions: Like 1


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## jgerou85 (May 27, 2016)

Don't molest you're spiders !!! It will become defensive all in good time, Just have patience

Reactions: Agree 2


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## BorisTheSpider (May 27, 2016)

Tar said:


> Ummm can I say that why are you waiting for your tarantula to be defensive ?


You know that is a very good question . What is the reason behind needed such a defensive T .


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## jiacovazzi (May 27, 2016)

BorisTheSpider said:


> You know that is a very good question . What is the reason behind needed such a defensive T .


Maybe they read all the sensationalized reports of OBT's posted by some members on the forums and they wondered why their new OBT wasn't living up to the godzilla-like-terror that some members will have you believe about OBTs.


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## BorisTheSpider (May 27, 2016)

jiacovazzi said:


> Maybe they read all the sensationalized reports of OBT's posted by some members on the forums and they wondered why their new OBT wasn't living up to the godzilla-like-terror that some members will have you believe about OBTs.


I assumed that the intent was to shoot some YouTube video . Why else poke it with a pencil ? I would think that almost any T would react negatively to some harsh prodding .


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## Poec54 (May 27, 2016)

jiacovazzi said:


> Maybe they read all the sensationalized reports of OBT's posted by some members on the forums and they wondered why their new OBT wasn't living up to the godzilla-like-terror that some members will have you believe about OBTs.


 
I know, we're making it all up; that video of the OBT escape and bite was faked.  They're really a docile species great gift for your grandmother.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## jiacovazzi (May 27, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> I know, we're making it all up; that video of the OBT escape and bite was faked.  They're really a docile species great gift for your grandmother.


Now you're playing it down like its nothing. I never said that it was made up, or faked. Simply that you oversensationalize OBTs, unnecessarily. It goes from one extreme to the other with you it seems. 

How about a logical discussion? You oversensationalize OBTs. They are indeed defensive and have potent venom. Not a good choice for a first tarantula. However, they're very easily bred, and online they can be sold to anyone, newb or not.

The hobby is flooded with OBTS, and its a wonder that there aren't more news reports of OBTS biting people (like the plane and P.cancerides) or that this forum isn't inundated with OBT bite reports, based on your melodramatics. 

Based on the 2 pages of bite reports on this forum from 2003-2014, it seems a lot of the bites were from careless husbandry. Vigilance is necessary in this hobby, from G.rosea to S. calceatum.


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## Trenor (May 27, 2016)

BorisTheSpider said:


> I assumed that the intent was to shoot some YouTube video . Why else poke it with a pencil ? I would think that almost any T would react negatively to some harsh prodding .


No where did the OP ever say they were trying to shoot a video for YouTube. I can point you to several other recent threads where other people, for all kinds of reasons, have prodded their Ts. I can also say not one person that did on those other threads got nearly the flak this guy did. Even after his second(last) post where he stated he had left it alone since.

People should not poke their Ts. They usually don't like it. People shouldn't excessively poke each other as they tend to not like it either.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 4


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## jiacovazzi (May 27, 2016)

Trenor said:


> No where did the OP ever say they were trying to shoot a video for YouTube. I can point you to several other recent threads where other people, for all kinds of reasons, have prodded their Ts. I can also say not one person that did on those other threads got nearly the flak this guy did. Even after his second(last) post where he stated he had left it alone since.
> 
> People should not poke their Ts. They usually don't like it. People shouldn't excessively poke each other as they tend to not like it either.


Exactly, not every new member who wants an OBT is looking to make a youtube video or to prove their toughness.

Reactions: Like 1


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## BorisTheSpider (May 27, 2016)

Trenor said:


> No where did the OP ever say they were trying to shoot a video for YouTube. I can point you to several other recent threads where other people, for all kinds of reasons, have prodded their Ts. I can also say not one person that did on those other threads got nearly the flak this guy did. Even after his second(last) post where he stated he had left it alone since.
> 
> People should not poke their Ts. They usually don't like it. People shouldn't excessively poke each other as they tend to not like it either.


Because what he said was  . . . .



ArachnaeEsoterica said:


> I prodded him with a pencil to see if he'd bite


Other "prodding" posts have been a situation where the poster has questioned whether or not their T was dead or had some other issue and not to see if they would bite when molested . The flak they have received was deserved . What if I took a dog out into the backyard , tied it to a tree and jabbed it with a broom handle trying to get it to bite . I would face criminal charges for doing something like that . It's not exactly considered a secret that OBTs are very defensive and that they on occasion will bite if given the chance . Why would someone want to or need to see if their OBT will ? What they did was animal cruelty .

Reactions: Agree 3 | Award 2


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## Poec54 (May 27, 2016)

jiacovazzi said:


> Exactly, not every new member who wants an OBT is looking to make a youtube video or to prove their toughness.


 
Now I was under the impression that they* all* were.  Goes to show...

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## BorisTheSpider (May 27, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> Now I was under the impression that they* all* were.  Goes to show...


Believe it or not a quick search of YouTube showed no results for _"cuddly lovey sweet as sugar OBT" . _Now a search for_ "crazy , mean , super aggressive , nasty OBT" _does get a more then few hits . Weird .

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Chris LXXIX (May 27, 2016)

jiacovazzi said:


> Exactly, not every new member who wants an OBT is looking to make a youtube video or to prove their toughness.


Can't disagree with you on that, man. But IMO the Internet "T's market", on that sense, doesn't help... because it only needs a Internet connection, a credit card, and a perfect beginner without a clue, receive that beauty orange (and cheap) spider.

I'm not saying that every beginner is uneducated and careless, of course, or that he/she will perform stupid YT stunts, just that not everyone loves to do their homeworks (meaning, checking and asking in sites like this one for learn about).

Now in those scenario/s, if you ask me it's up to the customer first, prior to the seller, to exactly know what they want to purchase, but here in Europe i have seen (really) medically significant venom Arachnids sold, via Internet, to complete beginners. I'm not talking about 'OBT's' but _S.hahni_, genus _Phoneutria_ and such.

I remember when i started the hobby in 1992, of course in a no Internet era (and go figure here in Italy). OW's here were full available as well, but the breeder didn't sold me one (i was fascinated by an Asian burrower, don't remember now if that was an "Haplo" or what) and he was right, because obviously i wasn't prepared for one back then.

I think that, from both sides, then, a bit of common sense is always the key for avoid issues.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2


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## Trenor (May 27, 2016)

BorisTheSpider said:


> Because what he said was  . . . .
> Other "prodding" posts have been a situation where the poster has questioned whether or not their T was dead or had some other issue and not to see if they would bite when molested . The flak they have received was deserved . What if I took a dog out into the backyard , tied it to a tree and jabbed it with a broom handle trying to get it to bite . I would face criminal charges for doing something like that . It's not exactly considered a secret that OBTs are very defensive and that they on occasion will bite if given the chance . Why would someone want to or need to see if their OBT will ? What they did was animal cruelty .


I agree, correct him for that. In the beginning he was corrected because poking a T to see if it bites is not good. But later posts were not about that. They attacked him for some other post and cause they didn't like him. That isn't needed and doesn't help anyone.

Regardless, this thread has been derailed once already and I'd rather not go back down that rabbit hole. Have a good one.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Trenor (May 27, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> I remember when i started the hobby in 1992, of course in a no Internet era (and go figure here in Italy). OW's here were full available as well, but the breeder didn't sold me one (i was fascinated by an Asian burrower, don't remember now if that was an "Haplo" or what) and he was right, because obviously i wasn't prepared for one back then.
> 
> I think that, from both sides, then, a bit of common sense is always the key for avoid issues.


I think this right here plays a big factor in things. Back before the internet you usually had to buy from someone in person. It is easier to evaluate a person when you talk to them in person IMO. If you encountered a kid wanting to stick a T in his mouth to impress his friends you could just not sale. Now you can buy Ts from a lot of people over the internet and it is much harder to tell who you are dealing with. Even on here I have mis-understood others posts/intent and had mine mis-understood as well. It's no easy task to, nor is there an easy way to know who is ready. We defiantly can't regulate it in any way.

So given all that, I think the best we can do is provide the best advice to people who need it. Even if we feel they should have gained more experience or did more research before buying that T that can put a hurt on them.

Reactions: Like 2


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## jiacovazzi (May 27, 2016)

Trenor said:


> I agree, correct him for that. In the beginning he was corrected because poking a T to see if it bites is not good. But later posts were not about that. They attacked him for some other post and cause they didn't like him. That isn't needed and doesn't help anyone.
> 
> Regardless, this thread has been derailed once already and I'd rather not go back down that rabbit hole. Have a good one.


I agree.


BorisTheSpider said:


> Believe it or not a quick search of YouTube showed no results for _"cuddly lovey sweet as sugar OBT" . _Now a search for_ "crazy , mean , super aggressive , nasty OBT" _does get a more then few hits . Weird .


They've never been portrayed as "_cuddly lovey sweet as sugar"   _

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## Toxoderidae (May 27, 2016)

jiacovazzi said:


> They've never been portrayed as "_cuddly lovey sweet as sugar"   _


No, but if you search (insert any well known defensive OW) and friendly, you'll see people handling slings that are still timid, or just a specimen that's putting up with the person's crap.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## BorisTheSpider (May 27, 2016)

Trenor said:


> I agree, correct him for that. In the beginning he was corrected because poking a T to see if it bites is not good. But later posts were not about that. They attacked him for some other post and cause they didn't like him. That isn't needed and doesn't help anyone.
> 
> Regardless, this thread has been derailed once already and I'd rather not go back down that rabbit hole. Have a good one.


I actually have to disagree with you on this.. Although I agree the original topic from the OP has been lost I believe the underlying theme of this thread is really what's important here. One of the most serious problems that are hobby faces today is quite frankly unfair unjust and cruel treatment towards these animals. I believe that underlying theme of this thread is really what's being discussed now and I think is very very important to bring up and to continue to discuss until the situation can be changed.

Reactions: Like 2


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## BorisTheSpider (May 27, 2016)

jiacovazzi said:


> They've never been portrayed as "_cuddly lovey sweet as sugar"   _


That's my point. These animals have a reputation they simply do not deserve  they can be defensive and they can be dangerous to a point but if they're handled properly you shouldn't have anything to worry about it's the way people treat them that make them bad


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## jiacovazzi (May 27, 2016)

Toxoderidae said:


> No, but if you search (insert any well known defensive OW) and friendly, you'll see people handling slings that are still timid, or just a specimen that's putting up with the person's crap.


I feel like well educated tarantula hobbyists don't go on youtube to post stunts. Although I'm probably reaching. I don't particularly care what they do. Its ultimately their choice, and when they get bit by a potent T I bet they will think twice. People do the same with reptiles, they handle venomous snakes, black widows, these are animals that can really do some damage. 

Until public awareness goes up about tarantulas (in an interesting, educational, informative way, not oversensationalizing) then they will continue to be misunderstood and the false perceptions will go on.

Reactions: Agree 4


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## jiacovazzi (May 27, 2016)

BorisTheSpider said:


> That's my point. These animals have a reputation they simply do not deserve  they can be defensive and they can be dangerous to a point but if they're handled properly you shouldn't have anything to worry about it's the way people treat them that make them bad


I agree that its an oversensationalized (perfect word) reputation that OBTs have. Let's not continue to perpetuate it.


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## BorisTheSpider (May 27, 2016)

jiacovazzi said:


> I agree that its an oversensationalized (perfect word) reputation that OBTs have. Let's not continue to perpetuate it.


I agree but they should come with a warning label . It makes me a little nervous when someone says " I just got my second tarantula it's an OBT . Can anybody tell me anything about them?" We need to definitely stressed a little research ahead of time is a very good idea no matter what species you're dealing with

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Andrea82 (May 27, 2016)

Trenor said:


> I agree, correct him for that. In the beginning he was corrected because poking a T to see if it bites is not good. But later posts were not about that. They attacked him for some other post and cause they didn't like him. That isn't needed and doesn't help anyone.
> 
> Regardless, this thread has been derailed once already and I'd rather not go back down that rabbit hole. Have a good one.


Though i overall agree with you, his former threads, and the deserved ban the op got does not inspire me to take op seriously, and with this thread he tried again to instigate another needless argument. n which he succeeds. Again. 
If you could have read his previous posts, you would understand why people are reacting this way. 
As it is, someone who prods his OBT to see if it will bite deserves all the flak op got and more.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## jiacovazzi (May 27, 2016)

BorisTheSpider said:


> I agree but they should come with a warning label . It makes me a little nervous when someone says " I just got my second tarantula it's an OBT . Can anybody tell me anything about them?" We need to definitely stressed a little research ahead of time is a very good idea no matter what species you're dealing with


Obts are not cigarettes.  This country is making more and more warning labels for different things because people do not have common sense and education nor do they research a product or an animal.  One of the biggest things that orange baboon tarantulas are known for are there defensiveness that reputation alone is enough to discourage most people from handling. Why it doesn't discourage all is beyond my comprehension, but if people hold or handle their orange baboon Tarantulas despite them giving defensive poses then you can't say they weren't warned and are probably idiots.

Reactions: Agree 4


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## cold blood (May 27, 2016)

BorisTheSpider said:


> That's my point. These animals have a reputation they simply do not deserve


 
See, I don't see their rep as sensationalized or undeserved...I see their rep as one the OBT has *earned* over the years.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 4


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## BorisTheSpider (May 27, 2016)

jiacovazzi said:


> Obts are not cigarettes.  This country is making more and more warning labels for different things because people do not have common sense and education nor do they research a product or an animal.  One of the biggest things that orange baboon tarantulas are known for are there defensiveness that reputation alone is enough to discourage most people from handling. Why it doesn't discourage all is beyond my comprehension, but if people hold or handle their orange baboon Tarantulas despite them giving defensive poses then you can't say they weren't warned and are probably idiots.


Because how are people supposed to know how cool you are if you aren't handling your big dangerous spiders and your big dangerous snakes and your big dangerous this and your big danger is that . I hate that our animals are often thrown into that Macho tough-guy show-off cool dude mentality . All you can do is have the peace of mind that the Ts you own are being housed properly and cared for properly and maybe with some effort we can educate a few of these showoffs out there .

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


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## Chris LXXIX (May 27, 2016)

BorisTheSpider said:


> Because how are people supposed to know how cool you are if you aren't handling your big dangerous spiders and your big dangerous snakes and your big dangerous this and your big danger is that . I hate that our animals are often thrown into that Macho tough-guy show-off cool dude mentality.


Indeed. I will continue to say that, without this modern world sick, twisted social-selfie-"look at me i'm cool" pure zombie mania, the Internet, and all of those (of today especially) devices _made_ for that... a good 98% of those 'Bravado' stunts would end tomorrow morning. They need an "audience" to impress. And that's sad, because they think to be 'original' 'unique' and such, but there's tons of them performing the same crap.

I don't drink that story of: "no, i handle even when i'm alone..." and garbage like that like a lemonade in hot summer. As i've said, IMO a 98% of them will stop tomorrow without the online world.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 6


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## jiacovazzi (May 27, 2016)

cold blood said:


> See, I don't see their rep as sensationalized or undeserved...I see their rep as one the OBT has *earned* over the years.


They're simply a tarantula that's more defensive than others. Its not deadly, we don't need to yell it from the rooftops as evident in this forum. It deserves more vigilance, research, and cautiousness

Reactions: Like 1


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## jiacovazzi (May 27, 2016)

cold blood said:


> See, I don't see their rep as sensationalized or undeserved...I see their rep as one the OBT has *earned* over the years.


I just meant that some people oversensationalize it. Of course its deserved, being on of the most defensive T's. Yet also one that's in a lot of T keepers collection.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Chris LXXIX (May 27, 2016)

It's like everything in life. Without common sense, the "homework" of course, the know yourself and respect (always) part, there's an high % of chances that things could end not well.

Like cars. You can be a dumb-a.. even with a "normal", little, cheap car if you are an idiot (_G.rosea_ and such, T's/Cars silly example) doesn't need a 'Lambo' (potent venom, teleport speed T's) for end bad.

It's all about those virtues.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## BorisTheSpider (May 27, 2016)

jiacovazzi said:


> They're simply a tarantula that's more defensive than others. Its not deadly, we don't need to yell it from the rooftops as evident in this forum. It deserves more vigilance, research, and cautiousness


What would @Poec54 say at a time like this. . . . Just have them read the bite reports !

Reactions: Funny 1


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## jiacovazzi (May 27, 2016)

BorisTheSpider said:


> What would @Poec54 say at a time like this. . . . Just have them read the bite reports !


I alluded to those in an earlier post


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## cold blood (May 27, 2016)

BorisTheSpider said:


> What would @Poec54 say at a time like this. . . . Just have them read the bite reports !


Unfortunately I believe that the vast majority of bites are never reported, which leaves only the few that do report them to learn from.....the fact that there is only 2, isn't an indication that bites are nearly that rare, or that their nature is over-blown,  just that its rare for people to step up and tell their potentially embarrassing story.....and by potentially embarrassing I don't mean publicly (cause most do actually find these reports educational), I mean personally, as in most are too proud to ever publicly admit such a thing happened. 

All too often pride gets in the way, and that's where people, especially newer people, need to be brought up to speed on the species' potential for problems, especially in the wrong hands, because they might see 2 reports over a decade and think that while bad, that bites are actually a rarity (and I'm not saying they are common, they aren't, it just leads to the belief that they almost never occur, while they actually do)...and like pitbulls, it seems like too many OBTs are in fact, owned by the wrong person with the wrong intentions or lack of real understanding.

If the only people that bought them were skilled people with good experience behind them, OBTs would be a non-issue...and I will give S. cal or even H. mac as examples....as these are species that you just don't see beginners fawning over or really even buying.    If the OBT was treated with the same respect (which they do deserve), the whole OBT debate would be a dead argument....but with the obt you see lists naming them as good beginner species, which IMO is where the problems begin.   Start putting H. mac or S. cal on beginner lists and we'd have the same issues with them.   Now that would be stupid, but IMO no more stupid and irrisponsible than putting OBT on these lists.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 8 | Award 1


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## Poec54 (May 27, 2016)

jiacovazzi said:


> .
> - They're simply a tarantula that's more defensive than others.
> - Its not deadly,
> - We don't need to yell it from the rooftops as evident in this forum.
> - It deserves more vigilance, research, and cautiousness


 
- Agreed.
- No one said they were.
- I haven't been on a rooftop in years.  We do have a responsibility on this forum to give good advice to beginners, they look up to us for that.  They can get poor advice anywhere.  Since it's such a prolific and inexpensive species, we regularly have to inform beginners that OBT's are not a good choice early on.  Apparently that can be seen as 'over sensationalizing'; are those discussions supposed to be conducted in hushed secretive tones or some sort of cryptic code? 
- Also agree, but _'Vigilance, research, and cautiousness'_ aren't necessarily synonymous with beginners, as many have little idea of what their getting into with their first tarantula or two, regardless of the species.  There are some that approach it well-read, but that's not the average.  Every week we get the most basic Tarantula 101 questions here.  That's fine but I'm not thrilled when their fascination is with advanced species.  Some of these people bring up OBT's; we don't.  I'd be happy if they were still rare and expensive like they were 20 years ago.  Since many new tarantula owners have done little, if any, research, and if they start asking about OBT's, somehow we have to get across to them that it's not in their best interests to jump into that species too soon.  With some people you can be subtle, with others subtlety doesn't work, so we have to spell it out.

Reactions: Agree 5


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## jiacovazzi (May 27, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> - Agreed.
> - No one said they were.
> - I haven't been on a rooftop in years.  We do have a responsibility on this forum to give good advice to beginners, they look up to us for that.  They can get poor advice anywhere.  Since it's such a prolific and inexpensive species, we regularly have to inform beginners that OBT's are not a good choice early on.  Apparently that can be seen as 'over sensationalizing'; are those discussions supposed to be conducted in hushed secretive tones or some sort of cryptic code?
> - Also agree, but _'Vigilance, research, and cautiousness'_ aren't necessarily synonymous with beginners, as many have little idea of what their getting into with their first tarantula or two, regardless of the species.  There are some that approach it well-read, but that's not the average.  Every week we get the most basic Tarantula 101 questions here.  That's fine but I'm not thrilled when their fascination is with advanced species.  Some of these people bring up OBT's; we don't.  I'd be happy if they were still rare and expensive like they were 20 years ago.  Since many new tarantula owners have done little, if any, research, and if they start asking about OBT's, somehow we have to get across to them that it's not in their best interests to jump into that species too soon.  With some people you can be subtle, with others subtlety doesn't work, so we have to spell it out.


That's the nature of people. With hundreds of species in the hobby, they're going to get what they want. The best we can do is inform them about the best ways to go about keeping them while staying safe while Doing so. Not everyone will follow the ladder nor do they want to. Pontificating about it just makes them want to do it more. Through Tactful explanation, I've talked many people into getting easier species than advanced ones, without flaming,
condescension, or stern lecture.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Vanessa (May 27, 2016)

cold blood said:


> ...and like pitbulls, it seems like too many OBTs are in fact, owned by the wrong person with the wrong intentions or lack of real understanding.


Yes, many people in the hobby are here for the wrong intentions and lack any understanding and, much more importantly - *respect*, for the fact that they have one of the most magnificent creatures that nature ever created in their care.
Tarantulas are not here for people to show off with, or get hollow and ridiculous comments about how they have 'balls' for doing stupid and idiotic things with them for social media purposes, they are here to give us access to a world beyond our imagination. They are not here to do something for us beyond giving us the opportunity to learn about them and love them.
Unfortunately, very few people have that opinion and most are just after cheap thrills and hollow sentiments at the tarantula's expense. Very few people see us being able to spend time in their world as the privilege that it is... and not the right that they believe.
And many of those people head for OBTs - who are definitely the pit bull of the tarantula world.

As far as reporting bites go - I wouldn't report being bitten either. With the way some people treat others on this forum - doing what is right by sharing your experience does not trump avoiding being beaten up the Arachnoboards way. The bite would be a bad enough experience without being plummeted into oblivion by some members here on top of it.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 3


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## cold blood (May 27, 2016)

VanessaS said:


> Yes, many people in the hobby are here for the wrong intentions and lack any understanding and, much more importantly - *respect*, for the fact that they have one of the most magnificent creatures that nature ever created in their care.
> Tarantulas are not here for people to show off with, or get hollow and ridiculous comments about how they have 'balls' for doing stupid and idiotic things with them for social media purposes, they are here to give us access to a world beyond our imagination. They are not here to do something for us beyond giving us the opportunity to learn about them and love them.
> Unfortunately, very few people have that opinion and most are just after cheap thrills and hollow sentiments at the tarantula's expense. Very few people see us being able to spend time in their world as the privilege that it is... and not the right that the believe.
> And many of those people head for OBTs - who are definitely the pit bull of the tarantula world.
> ...


I loved this post...except for the last sentence.   I can't recall ever reading a bite report where there was any bashing going on...pretty sure that's not tolerated in the bite reports.   People get flamed for bad practices and bad attitudes, not for being bitten, at least not that I can recall.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 4


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## Venom1080 (May 27, 2016)

Tar said:


> Ummm can I say that why are you waiting for your tarantula to be defensive ?


because this a species well known to be very defensive. the OP was wondering if there was something wrong with his because it wasnt defensive yet.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## mistertim (May 27, 2016)

cold blood said:


> I loved this post...except for the last sentence.   I can't recall ever reading a bite report where there was any bashing going on...pretty sure that's not tolerated in the bite reports.   People get flamed for bad practices and bad attitudes, not for being bitten, at least not that I can recall.


And most people in bite reports are forthcoming about how it happened and own it if it was their fault (which is basically pretty much every time). The only instance I could see someone getting bashed is if they did something idiotic, got bit, and reported it as if it was all the spider's fault.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## BorisTheSpider (May 27, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> I haven't been on a rooftop in years.  .


Hands down funniest thing said this week !

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Funny 1


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## Tar (May 27, 2016)

Venom1080 said:


> because this a species well known to be very defensive. the OP was wondering if there was something wrong with his because it wasnt defensive yet.


That's very true but my question is why is the OP waiting for his obt to be defensive in nature ? Would he despise a non defensive obt ? Cause I know that specimens vary.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Venom1080 (May 27, 2016)

Tar said:


> That's very true but my question is why is the OP waiting for his obt to be defensive in nature ? Would he despise a non defensive obt ? Cause I know that specimens vary.


see prev post... thats the whole reason.


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## viper69 (May 27, 2016)

BorisTheSpider said:


> continue to discuss until the situation can be changed.


People with the type of behavior we are all against, ie abusing, purposely and knowingly upsetting animals, esp pets, need to be weeded out of the gene pool so their behavior and their genes are not passed on to progeny.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 2


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## Trenor (May 27, 2016)

viper69 said:


> People with the type of behavior we are all against, ie abusing, purposely and knowingly upsetting animals, esp pets, need to be weeded out of the gene pool so their behavior and their genes are not passed on to progeny.


Don't get me wrong, I don't like people who abuse/harm animals anymore then you do. But if we are going to be weeding the gene pool, I can think of some other people with bad traits that we should start with. Like people who do genocide or people who abuse kids in any form etc. Maybe work our way down from there.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Sarkhan42 (May 27, 2016)

Trenor said:


> Don't get me wrong, I don't like people who abuse/harm animals anymore then you do. But if we are going to be weeding the gene pool, I can think of some other people with bad traits that we should start with. Like people who do genocide or people who abuse kids in any form etc. Maybe work our way down from there.


While this is totally off topic, it's not so simple as a couple of genes making people who they are. Humans are far too complex for that. The son of a terrible man might be the next great one. Our largest concern needs to be education and environment from the start. Ignorance is the enemy, not genetics. Our greatest strength is our ability to learn and teach, that is how we use our intelligence that has brought us so far, not turning against each other, as terrible as humanity can be.

Reactions: Like 1


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## viper69 (May 27, 2016)

BorisTheSpider said:


> What if I took a dog out into the backyard , tied it to a tree and jabbed it with a broom handle trying to get it to bite .


Spot on Boris! Smash a dog's brains in and the world views you as an animal abuser, step on a spider and the world views one as a savior.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## viper69 (May 27, 2016)

Trenor said:


> Don't get me wrong, I don't like people who abuse/harm animals anymore then you do. But if we are going to be weeding the gene pool, I can think of some other people with bad traits that we should start with. Like people who do genocide or people who abuse kids in any form etc. Maybe work our way down from there.


There's nothing wrong w/that either. We are talking about pets/animals so I was keeping my comment in context. However, the British did the right thing, they took all their social degenerates and dumped them on an island. Those islanders are one of the most peaceful nations on the planet.

If only we would do the same thing...Too bad we don't own Greenland.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## cold blood (May 27, 2016)

Trenor said:


> Don't get me wrong, I don't like people who abuse/harm animals anymore then you do. But if we are going to be weeding the gene pool, I can think of some other people with bad traits that we should start with. Like people who do genocide or people who abuse kids in any form etc. Maybe work our way down from there.



Its proven that people who abuse animals are far more likely to abuse humans...the correlation is one of the big reasons law enforcement has taken animal abuse more seriously than they have in the past.   Basically, they're the same people Trenor

Reactions: Agree 5


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## crlovel (May 27, 2016)

Fascinating thread drift. We've gone from a jerk torturing his OBT to setting up a euthanization facility for the OP and those like him. As Trenor noted, I can think of better scumbags to send to Hell, although animal abusers are certainly not far from the top of my list. In the meantime, I'm watching with baited breath to see where we go from here.

Kudos and applause to Poec and Jiacovazzi. This is the first time I've seen civility between the two of them! Well done, gentlemen!

An OBT was my second tarantula. She's a feisty one who's never given me any trouble. Education and preparing for the worst will always keep a keeper safe.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 2


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## viper69 (May 28, 2016)

cold blood said:


> Its proven that people who abuse animals are far more likely to abuse humans...the correlation is one of the big reasons law enforcement has taken animal abuse more seriously than they have in the past.   Basically, they're the same people Trenor


That's absolutely true, I've read a few articles about that. There are many people who start off abusing animals, and 20 years later we see them on the news as the latest serial killer.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## cold blood (May 28, 2016)

viper69 said:


> That's absolutely true, I've read a few articles about that. There are many people who start off abusing animals, and 20 years later we see them on the news as the latest serial killer.


Its a basic lack of empathy, and it extends to all living things....its really a brain issue when you get down to it.   It is indeed a trait shared by nearly all serial killers and a crazy high percentage of  murders and human abusers.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## viper69 (May 28, 2016)

cold blood said:


> Its a basic lack of empathy, and it extends to all living things....its really a brain issue when you get down to it.   It is indeed a trait shared by nearly all serial killers and a crazy high percentage of  murders and human abusers.


Yep that is true.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Trenor (May 28, 2016)

Yeah, often times those groups are the same. 

Great, I'm taking Chris LXXIX's place as the thread derailer aren't I?

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2 | Optimistic 1


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## Flexzone (May 28, 2016)

They first start off on animals as they are easily able to dominate over them, As they can't speak; It gives psychopaths/abusers the sense of control over the situation, they feed on it and crave it like a drug. Once they get hooked that's when it gets taken to the next lvl subsequently onto people.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## BobBarley (May 28, 2016)

viper69 said:


> People with the type of behavior we are all against, ie abusing, purposely and knowingly upsetting animals, esp pets, need to be weeded out of the gene pool so their behavior and their genes are not passed on to progeny.


In an ideal world man...


viper69 said:


> Spot on Boris! Smash a dog's brains in and the world views you as an animal abuser, step on a spider and the world views one as a savior.


I really hate how that is, but all we can do is continue to and educate.


Society sucks, let's make a utopia!  A world with no murders, no injustice, just pure perfection.  Imagine that!

Reactions: Like 1 | Lollipop 1


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## cold blood (May 28, 2016)

Trenor said:


> Yeah, often times those groups are the same.
> 
> Great, I'm taking Chris LXXIX's place as the thread derailer aren't I?


Better than taking his place as a serial killer

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Funny 1 | Lollipop 1


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## cold blood (May 28, 2016)

BobBarley said:


> In an ideal world man...
> 
> I really hate how that is, but all we can do is continue to and educate.
> 
> ...


You wouldn't be the first with that dream, nor the last.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Lollipop 1


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## BobBarley (May 28, 2016)

Thanks for the lollipop @Chris LXXIX, no idea what that rating actually means, but I like lollipops!

Reactions: Funny 1 | Lollipop 1


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## crlovel (May 28, 2016)

BobBarley said:


> Thanks for the lollipop @Chris LXXIX, no idea what that rating actually means, but I like lollipops!


I think it's like saying, "good boy, here's a cookie." That's how I always take it. And I like cookies.

Reactions: Lollipop 4


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## Ryuti (May 28, 2016)

Tarantula1995 said:


> They first start off on animals as they are easily able to dominate over them, As they can't speak; It gives psychopaths/abusers the sense of control over the situation, they feed on it and crave it like a drug. Once they get hooked that's when it gets taken to the next lvl subsequently onto people.



Can I just kind of add on to that with the fact that a lot of people (an EXTREMELY surprising amount) dont even think arachnids or insects are animals? I quote "they're bugs and arachnids, not animals" 

When people make that seperation it's a lot easier for them to justify shamelessly killing them for no reason

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Poec54 (May 28, 2016)

Ryuti said:


> Can I just kind of add on to that with the fact that a lot of people (an EXTREMELY surprising amount) dont even think arachnids or insects are animals? I quote "they're bugs and arachnids, not animals"
> 
> When people make that seperation it's a lot easier for them to justify shamelessly killing them for no reason



Even more bizarre, is the all too common belief that humans aren't animals, even though chimps have 98% of the same DNA we do.

Reactions: Agree 5


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## Tar (May 28, 2016)

They don't understand that we are just the highest form of animal. Not a whole different life on earth.


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## Trenor (May 28, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> Even more bizarre, is the all too common belief that humans aren't animals, even though chimps have 98% of the same DNA we do.


It is hard for some people to hear they are not cosmically special. People rejected a working solar model for years because it didn't place our planet at the center of everything. Most were happy in accepting evolution theory when it came out if humans were not included in it. Lesser beings evolve, we are special.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Vanessa (May 28, 2016)

There are a limited number of Kingdoms and, unless you are a plant, bacteria, a fungus, or protozoa, there is only one that we fit into. Although I question if some people I meet actually do fit in nicely with the protozoa.
Very few people can sit still long enough to learn anything anymore - unless it's poking tarantulas for fun over on YouTube. 
Maybe David Suzuki, Bill Nye or Neil deGrasse Tyson should consider giving YouTube lessons wearing a tarantula on their heads?


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## Poec54 (May 28, 2016)

crlovel said:


> Kudos and applause to Poec and Jiacovazzi. This is the first time I've seen civility between the two of them! Well done, gentlemen!



Should happen more often, I don't see any good comes from initiating it.


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## BorisTheSpider (May 28, 2016)

crlovel said:


> I think it's like saying, "good boy, here's a cookie." That's how I always take it. And I like cookies.


I like to give cake , cause who doesn't like a nice piece of cake . I give an espresso when I think a post is unusually clear and to the point and cause who doesn't like a nice cup of  espresso . I know the rating system calls it a coffee but as a absolute espresso fanatic I choose to give what I like to give .

Reactions: Agree 1


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## BorisTheSpider (May 28, 2016)

crlovel said:


> Fascinating thread drift.
> An OBT was my second tarantula


As long threads don't become hate tossing insult fests then I like to see where they go .
OBT was also my second tarantula . I believe they went by the pet shop handle of cinnamon tarantulas (?) back then . Granted that was a few decades ago and that may have been a what my LPS was calling them .


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## Andrea82 (May 28, 2016)

BorisTheSpider said:


> As long threads don't become hate tossing insult fests then I like to see where they go .
> OBT was also my second tarantula . I believe they went by the pet shop handle of cinnamon tarantulas (?) back then . Granted that was a few decades ago and that may have been a what my LPS was calling them .


Cinnamon tarantula....should go nicely with the cake an espresso you are a fan of

Reactions: Funny 2


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## BorisTheSpider (May 28, 2016)

Andrea82 said:


> Cinnamon tarantula....should go nicely with the cake an espresso you are a fan of


Okay I take it back . . . *this* is the funniest post I've read all week .

Reactions: Agree 2


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## cold blood (May 28, 2016)

someone's easily amused.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 1 | Coffee 1


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## BorisTheSpider (May 28, 2016)

cold blood said:


> someone's easily amused.


It's all the espresso . It makes me hyper and goofy.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Andrea82 (May 28, 2016)

BorisTheSpider said:


> It's all the espresso . It makes me hyper and goofy.


i rather talk to someone who is easily amused than easily irritated  Glad I could make you laugh

Reactions: Agree 1


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## 14pokies (May 28, 2016)

BorisTheSpider said:


> As long threads don't become hate tossing insult fests then I like to see where they go .
> OBT was also my second tarantula . I believe they went by the pet shop handle of cinnamon tarantulas (?) back then . Granted that was a few decades ago and that may have been a what my LPS was calling them .


My brother used to refer to a species that went by the common name of cinnamon tarantula.. There was also a reference to them in a book that he had.. 

Your the only other person I have heard mention this common name and I would love to pin down what species he was referring too. 

I don't know that it could of been an OBT because he was talking about them back when I was around 4-5yr old and that was 29-30yrs ago... I don't think OBTs were available back then.. Im not sure though..

The reason I would love to find the book is because on one page if memory serves me correct there was an emerald green tarantula... Knowing what I know now about Ts its a species I haven't seen since.. The book had to be made back in the late seventys very early 80's and had a B.smithi on the cover.. 

Ring any bells? Anyone?


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## BorisTheSpider (May 28, 2016)

I wish had some pictures because I remember the speed and wildly aggressive behavior more then I remember the color . I know I thought the name didn't fit because it seemed like a cinnamon tarantula should be brown . I took a long break from pets while I was at college and by the time I got back into the hobby there was suddenly a huge variety of Ts available. I knew the first time that I saw something called an OBT I was sure it was what I had owned before . I do remember that this LPS was the first place I saw Reticulated and Rock pythons so I guess they could of had a an animal importer that had access to African species . To be honest were talking about many many years ago and my memory isn't what it use to be .


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## darkness975 (May 28, 2016)

14pokies said:


> My brother used to refer to a species that went by the common name of cinnamon tarantula.. There was also a reference to them in a book that he had..
> 
> Your the only other person I have heard mention this common name and I would love to pin down what species he was referring too.
> 
> ...


@14pokies @BorisTheSpider
http://www.goodbooksinthewoods.com/pages/books/38992/john-g-browning/tarantulas


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## BorisTheSpider (May 28, 2016)

A quick Google search for cinnamon tarantula brought up a pic of an Aphonopelma species but what I had was no Aphonopelma . Once again the use of common names causes an issue . Scientific names always , although the species name  may not have been available to my LPS back then .


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## BorisTheSpider (May 28, 2016)

darkness975 said:


> @14pokies @BorisTheSpider
> http://www.goodbooksinthewoods.com/pages/books/38992/john-g-browning/tarantulas


I remember that book . I always thought it looked like she was smelling that T .


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## darkness975 (May 28, 2016)

BorisTheSpider said:


> I remember that book . I always thought it looked like she was smelling that T .


The cover is a _B. smithi _and the copyright is 1981. It might possibly be the book that @14pokies was referring to. But hard to say without being able to open it.


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## 14pokies (May 28, 2016)

BorisTheSpider said:


> A quick Google search for cinnamon tarantula brought up a pic of an Aphonopelma species but what I had was no Aphonopelma . Once again the use of common names causes an issue . Scientific names always , although the species name  may not have been available to my LPS back then .


Yea it does... 

No before he passed I showed him some google images and he didn't recognize any of them.. It was less than 10 yrs ago that we searched google and I went over every species I could think of....


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## 14pokies (May 28, 2016)

darkness975 said:


> @14pokies @BorisTheSpider
> http://www.goodbooksinthewoods.com/pages/books/38992/john-g-browning/tarantulas


That may be the book.. For 10 bucks I might pick it up.. Thanks man!

Reactions: Like 1


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## darkness975 (May 28, 2016)

14pokies said:


> That may be the book.. For 10 bucks I might pick it up.. Thanks man!


Good luck with it and let me know how it turns out and if that was the book.

Reactions: Like 1


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## cold blood (May 28, 2016)

14pokies said:


> My brother used to refer to a species that went by the common name of cinnamon tarantula.. There was also a reference to them in a book that he had..
> 
> Your the only other person I have heard mention this common name and I would love to pin down what species he was referring too.
> 
> ...


I vaguely recall that being the "camaroon red", which I believe was a common name for H. gigas (if I recall correctly).  I'm terrible with common names, so I could be mixed up.

P. muticus is the right color as well...but that's a pretty distinct t.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Chris LXXIX (May 28, 2016)

BorisTheSpider said:


> but as a absolute espresso fanatic I choose to give what I like to give .


Oh, "espresso"? We love to call that just coffee here. Tought you liked that vile, disgusting, liquid black sort of pigsville drink served in the US in those carafes by chubby Ladies, like in "Natural Born Killers" flick opening. 
I remember that garbage well in California when i visited Mom's family. Jesus Christ, that's not a coffee.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## BorisTheSpider (May 28, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> Oh, "espresso"? We love to call that just coffee here. Tought you liked that vile, disgusting, liquid black sort of pigsville drink served in the US in those carafes by chubby Ladies, like in "Natural Born Killers" flick opening.
> I remember that garbage well in California when i visited Mom's family. Jesus Christ, that's not a coffee.


Coffee in this country is an atocicity. it's all disgusting Starbucks and gas station coffee .

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Crone Returns (May 28, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> Even more bizarre, is the all too common belief that humans aren't animals, even though chimps have 98% of the same DNA we do.


The bonobo chimps have 98% of our genes. Actually we have 98% of theirs. The bonobos are peaceful, matriarchical and have a very complex society. The chimps that Jane Goodall studied are male dominated society prone to marauding and senseless killing. Not trying to start a fight, just stating the way things are.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Chris LXXIX (May 28, 2016)

BorisTheSpider said:


> Coffee in this country is an atocicity. it's all disgusting Starbucks and gas station coffee .


When i visited the US (East Coast, West Coast mostly, and part of the Midwest -- Missouri) i was prepared for that, but seriously, that "drink" is a torture and you realize that only the very moment that's down your throat ah ah.
For a good coffee, save for my Mom's family, had to reach Bensonhurst lol  to think that South America is so near to you, hence an easy access to top quality coffee class!

I think it's a good match however... US coffee VS the French one. Both terrible... but i save the US one, because at least "yours" isn't a cheap mockery of Italian one 

Btw i was talking to normal, carafe/s dinner Bar old school US coffee, have not a clue about the Starbucks one because i don't enter into such places.


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## Poec54 (May 28, 2016)

BorisTheSpider said:


> I wish had some pictures because I remember the speed and wildly aggressive behavior more then I remember the color . I know I thought the name didn't fit because it seemed like a cinnamon tarantula should be brown .



The name Cinnamon Brown Tarantula floated around back in the 1970's.  I forgot all about that.  I'm not sure, but it may have been the grey Aphonopelma seemani from Guatemala that was being imported at the time.  I also seem to vaguely remember the name not being a good fit for the spider's actual color.  There were only a handful of species being imported into the US back then, so there's not many candidates it could have been.  No one knew any scientific names; there was Mexican Red Leg, Curly Hair, Haitian Brown, Pink Toe; so I'm thinking the grey seemani must have been the Cinnamon Brown. There really wasn't even a 'hobby' then, virtually no breeding, few people able to find another collector.  You were on your own. 

Not surprised the word Cinnamon was probably used for several unrelated species, again showing that common names cause more confusion than anything else, and why we shouldn't use them here.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Informative 1


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## 14pokies (May 28, 2016)

cold blood said:


> I vaguely recall that being the "camaroon red", which I believe was a common name for H. gigas (if I recall correctly).  I'm terrible with common names, so I could be mixed up.
> 
> P. muticus is the right color as well...but that's a pretty distinct t.


With some imagination it would fit with his description based on size.. (Now mind you he wasn't a Tarantulas guy just a casual keeper of one species, once) but he said they were the size of a small dinner plate and were a grayish red ( cinnamon lol).. I don't think I ever showed him gigas so that could be it...  

I'm pretty sure the T he had was a phormictopus sp. I was never allowed to get a very good look at it because it could jump 20 feet and kill me with a single bite...pretty sure he just told me that to keep me out of his room..Lol.. 
He allways wanted one of these damn cinnamon Tarantulas though.Lol


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