# Anyone help id?



## RhacBreeder (Jan 3, 2008)

I think it is a tanzanian red claw, but I really don't know...The stinger is the same color of the legs, fully extended it is at most an inch and three quarters and the belly is a dark cream color.


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## Aztek (Jan 3, 2008)

Wow that's beautiful. 

Looks like a Pandinus Cavimanus.


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## Vaughan69 (Jan 3, 2008)

now that IS a beautiful scorpion... i wonder if theres any cvhance of getting hold of one in England lol


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## RhacBreeder (Jan 3, 2008)

Pandinus cf. militaris maybe?  The cavimanus has less caramel color.  
click here: http://pagesperso-orange.fr/eycb/scorpions/Gafrique.htm scroll down to pandinus.


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## Aztek (Jan 3, 2008)

RhacBreeder said:


> Pandinus cf. militaris maybe?  The cavimanus has less caramel color.
> click here: http://pagesperso-orange.fr/eycb/scorpions/Gafrique.htm scroll down to pandinus.


Possible matches

http://pagesperso-orange.fr/eycb/scorpions/Images/Photos galerie/Afrique/Pandinusmilitaris1.jpg
http://pagesperso-orange.fr/eycb/scorpions/Images/Photos galerie/Afrique/Pandinusmilitaris2.jpg
http://pagesperso-orange.fr/eycb/scorpions/Images/Photos galerie/Afrique/Pandinusviatoris1.jpg


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## Cyris69 (Jan 3, 2008)

I've always wanted a militaris

Could be a 
Pandinus colei
Or
Pandinus viatoris

Then again, it does look dead on with that picture.
http://pagesperso-orange.fr/eycb/scorpions/Images/Photos galerie/Afrique/Pandinusmilitaris1.jpg


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## RhacBreeder (Jan 3, 2008)

Pic to pic it looks like the militaris, but looking at pics of the colei and viatoris from different sources, it's a coin flip.  At least I can be certain that it is a Pandinus sp.  Any entomologists around here?  Rude where are you?  I got this particular scorp from a pet store that was killing it, knowingly or unknowingly this guy was headed for dead in the hands of these people.  It was in an unheated kritter keeper in a very thin layer of pine shavings with a water dish twice it's height.  I set up his new encloser which has about 4-5 inches of soil, a bottomless hide which is now the entrance to his very impressive burrow, a couple of plants for looks and a very shallow water dish that he spent 5 minutes in as soon as he found it.  He is an aggressive bugger and doesn't hesitate to sting.  The only time he was unresponsive was when he was drinking the water when he first found it.  I gently nudged his tail a couple of times and he didn't even flinch.  After the drink it was a different story.  I know he was stressed but I have never seen a scorpion sting wildly at nothing from a gentle breeze touching it before now.


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## brandontmyers (Jan 3, 2008)

I am not sure P. militaris is a valid species. If it is from Tanzania is is most likely a P. viatoris. But to me it looks like some of the "P. smithi" that are floating around.


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## RhacBreeder (Jan 3, 2008)

P. cf. militaris...all of the the viatoris pics I have seen show more plump specimens, although mine probably didn't eat much until now...


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## skinheaddave (Jan 3, 2008)

RhacBreeder said:


> At least I can be certain that it is a Pandinus sp.


It seems probable -- looks like Pandinus to me -- but it would be best to check.  First off, does it have a subaculear protuberance of any sort?  Any sort of bump,spine etc. right near the sting?  The other thing to check for is a stridulatory region at the base of the pedipalps and leg I.  This requires some very good camera work or a microscope, so it may or may not be feasible for you.  There are likely other possibilities, but the things I am wondering about right now are something from Diplocentridae or Opistophthalmus sp.



Lokal said:


> I am not sure P. militaris is a valid species.


At the moment it is, unless Jan Ove Rein has missed a revision on his site.

Cheers,
Dave


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## RhacBreeder (Jan 4, 2008)

I don't have a microscope, but I will try to get a look and good pic of the tail.  Near the sting...do you mean near the point of the actuall stinger or the second to last tail section?


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## skinheaddave (Jan 4, 2008)

RhacBreeder said:


> Near the sting...do you mean near the point of the actuall stinger or the second to last tail section?


I have attached an image with the appropriate area circled.  Bonus points to anyone who can figure out the species in the extremely overexposed picture I cropped this from. 

Cheers,
Dave


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## RhacBreeder (Jan 4, 2008)

Diplocentridae sp.?


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## Michiel (Jan 4, 2008)

Tityus falconensis or T.trinitatis?


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## Michiel (Jan 4, 2008)

[QUOTE Bonus points to anyone who can figure out the species in the extremely overexposed picture I cropped this from. 

Cheers,
Dave[/QUOTE]



Tityus falconensis or C.gracilis?


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## brandontmyers (Jan 4, 2008)

Michiel, 

I agree, I was thinking C. gracilis, C limbatus, or C. margaritatus.


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## skinheaddave (Jan 4, 2008)

Lokal said:


> I agree, I was thinking C. gracilis, C limbatus, or C. margaritatus.


Yes, but you should be able to decide based on that shot alone.

Cheers,
Dave


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## Michiel (Jan 5, 2008)

Well,

I do not agree Dave, in identifying Tityus and Centruroides, one should take more features in consideration then the shape of the subaculear tooth and the carinae on the metasomal segments. 
If there are people here who can distinguish between species and subspecies from the genera mentioned, with pictures like you posted, I like to meet hem  

I'll stick to C.gracilis (and have it wrong probably  )

Cheers, Michiel


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## skinheaddave (Jan 5, 2008)

Michiel said:


> Well,
> 
> I do not agree Dave, in identifying Tityus and Centruroides, one should take more features in consideration then the shape of the subaculear tooth and the carinae on the metasomal segments.


True, but in this particular case two of the three can be eliminated based on that shot alone.  I'm not saying that you should be able to pull a scorpion out of the field, glance at it and know the truth -- but in this case you should be able to narrow it down to one of the three mentioned Centruroides based on that picture alone.

Cheers,
Dave


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## RhacBreeder (Jan 6, 2008)

Well I have tried to catch a glimpse of my scorp's tail, but unlike him I am not nocturnal.  He seems to like his cage set up.  I assume he is drinking and he is eating.  He made his burrow against the side and bottom of the cage.  The burrow has two chambers, I am not sure why two but they are there.  It is an impressive burrow for such a small scorp.


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## brandontmyers (Jan 6, 2008)

Dave,

I am going to say C. limbatus. My C. margaritatus has a much more prominent subaculear tooth.

Brandon


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## Michiel (Jan 7, 2008)

skinheaddave said:


> True, but in this particular case two of the three can be eliminated based on that shot alone.  I'm not saying that you should be able to pull a scorpion out of the field, glance at it and know the truth -- but in this case you should be able to narrow it down to one of the three mentioned Centruroides based on that picture alone.
> 
> Cheers,
> Dave


I have to admit, maybe'I should do my homework better. At first I thought, this is a Tityus sp. form the atreus group. Then I thought of C.gracilis. So I was not able to differentiate between Tityus and Centruroides. I know this has something to do with shape of the subaculear tooth. 
Like I said, back to school for me and in the meantime I'll stick to gracilis (limbatus has different shaped metasomal segments). 

I hope you'll post the answer soon, you made me curious. 

Cheers, Michiel  

Cheers, Michiel


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## skinheaddave (Jan 7, 2008)

I think there has been some miscommunication.  I am suggesting only that you can tell the difference between C.gracilis, C.margaritatus and C.limbatus based on that image alone.  The subaculear tooth is too small and angled too far in to be C.limbatus.  There is a lot of variation here, so that isn't 100%, but that combined with the general roundness of the telson would lean me towards C.margaritatus.  With regards to C.gracilis vs. C.margaritatus/limbatus, C.gracilis has very smooth metasomal carinae by contrast.  Even on the lighter colourations of C.gracilis you are not going to find big granules like that.

It should, of course, be clear that I did the ID on this specimen using a lot more features like that.  I should also be clear that this was intended more as a guessing game ... though once it was down to Centruroides the picture became much more informative. 

Cheers,
Dave


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## Michiel (Jan 8, 2008)

Well,

I think I isunderstood. I am a Centruroides noob, so even a guess was maybe to high aimed


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