# T Blondi or T Apophysis ?



## MACZ (Nov 23, 2009)

Hi sorry to post this in here put I posted the picture in the ID section of the forum and had no reply What spider would you say this one was as I cant find out how to tell them apart thanks.


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## Fingolfin (Nov 23, 2009)

I don't see the pic...


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## Ts are #1 (Nov 23, 2009)

Looks like a T Apophysis, but i could be wrong.


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## JC (Nov 23, 2009)

I say T.apophysis, but if that one is over 6-inches it may be a T.blondi.


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## YellowBrickRoad (Nov 23, 2009)

how big is it? any other pics?


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## MACZ (Nov 23, 2009)

Why would you say Apophysis how can you tell? thanks


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## MACZ (Nov 23, 2009)

YellowBrickRoad said:


> how big is it? any other pics?


Its around 7 inch


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## MACZ (Nov 23, 2009)

Another pic


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## sharpfang (Nov 23, 2009)

*I concur Doctor*

Although I am no "brain surgeon"..........Looks like Apophosis.........
Color wise.... ......Big spider, either way......When it Molts.....Show inside of EXUVIUM.....I would imagine that there is a Difference in the inside shapes of Sexies.......LOL


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## Satellite Rob (Nov 23, 2009)

It's a 100% T.Blondi.I feed almost 500 on saturday and theres no question 
about it.I'm still itching from it.


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## Fran (Nov 23, 2009)

Satellite Rob said:


> It's a 100% T.Blondi.I feed almost 500 on saturday and theres no question
> about it.I'm still itching from it.




Lets be serious here, The fact that you fed 500 T.Blondi on saturday has nothing to do with if this spider is a T.Blondi or not.  

But I would say thats a Theraphosa Blondi.

Here you can see more clear the differences, more pinkish all over coloration...

Reactions: Like 1


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## joshuai (Nov 23, 2009)

look at the sex organ spermathecea or something apophysis sont have the flap in front of them i think


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## sharpfang (Nov 23, 2009)

*That's the Only way I can tell for sure!*

Looks different then my goliath's Legs..........I m NO expert , that's Obvious....

I am Itching TOO!.....................


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## spiderfield (Nov 23, 2009)

Definitely looks like a _T. blondi_.  Its possible it could also be one of the disputed "Burgundy sp.", but not _T. apophysis_.  What makes you think its the latter?


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## Satellite Rob (Nov 23, 2009)

Beleave what you want and I fed 500 T.Blondi's in about 4 hours and 
every one got a hand full of crickets.When you deal with as many T's  
as I do and you learn to move fast.


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## JC (Nov 23, 2009)

Satellite Rob said:


> It's a 100% T.Blondi.I feed almost 500 on saturday .


Hook me up!


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## YellowBrickRoad (Nov 23, 2009)

Arachneman said:


> Hook me up!


X2...  :clap: :worship: :clap:


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## sharpfang (Nov 23, 2009)

*Are Apophosis more distinguishable as Adults?*

Curious......Different lookin' when young.....and pics of adults I see, look richer in color than milk-chocolately Goliaths......:? 

Not my specialty....and the hairs are No joke...........!

I will Deal with a c.h. sack soon....then I am done......c.b. babies grow - Quick!


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## Jmugleston (Nov 23, 2009)

Satellite Rob said:


> Beleave what you want and I fed 500 T.Blondi's in about 4 hours and
> every one got a hand full of crickets.When you deal with as many T's
> as I do and you learn to move fast.


Hmmm. That's a lot of T. blondi. A photograph would be cool if you get a second.

As for the OP, distinguishing between the two Theraphosa species is a bit difficult once they get over about 5 inches. T. blondi look brownish black when they first molt. The bristles are either red or brown after the molt. T. apophysis is a bit leggier and has a more purplish hue just after a molt. If it is a male, once it matures it will be easy to tell. Females are a bit more difficult. It looks much more like my T. blondi than my T. apophysis. Pictures are not the best for identification though.


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## Satellite Rob (Nov 24, 2009)

While feeding the the TB I saw at least 50 0f them that had pink feet.Just 
because you see pink feet that don't make it a TA.TA's and TB's both have 
pink feet when thay are young.Most loose there pink feet by the time thay 
reach 5" and some times that wiil hold on to there pink feet a little longer. 
We import 90% of all TB's in the United States and it's a lot more than 
anybody woul ever beleave.I bet you that T is under 5".Just because that 
T is blown up in picture doesn't mean it's big and I guarantee you if he puts 
something in the picture you can compare the size with you will see it's much 
smaller than your lead to beleave.If it was a TA it would be much darker in 
color.15 or 20 there was no quata's or limits on numbers imported and we use 
to bring in more than 20 thousand a year.So I probably seen at least 300,000 
to 400,000 TA's and TB's In the last 20 years.You thinking i'm full of crap.But 
i'm telling you the truth and i'm being conservative.Now that thay have limits. 
You still wouldn"t beleave the amountsthat are still imported.Over the last 20 
years I couldn't begin to guess how many millions of T's i've seen.I only wish 
I was lying when I give that number of T's that have been imported to the 
United States by this one importer.My importer is the largest aminal in the 
US and maybe even the world.So lets get back to T's.The only way TA's can 
be possitively identified is by an expert or if a adult male.When males become 
mature thay become one of the most beautiful T's in the world.Thay become 
a extreme purple and red with a beautiful stripping in there legs and the picture 
that you can find are truely gorgeous.If you ever saw a freshly molted mature 
male you would never forget it.The extreme purples and reds have such a 
sheen that the male TA looks like it's glowing + thay have the largest legspan 
ever recorded on any tarantula ever found and that was 13.2".


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## Fran (Nov 24, 2009)

Satellite Rob said:


> + thay have the largest legspan
> ever recorded on any tarantula ever found and that was 13.2".





I dont believe that has been oficially stated/recognized.
Im not saying it cant be, but I dont think its official. 
I believe the only oficial data  about largest leg span is one from 1975? of a Theraphosa Blondi in Venezuela, and it was around  12".
The female that I had that recently died was a solid 11" and over 5 inches body lenght  )...So Imagine whats out there.







Heres is quite more plump, she was alive.


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## Jmugleston (Nov 24, 2009)

I'd still like to see pictures of the hundreds of goliaths. I get a kick out of seeing my humble stack of Theraphosa blondi. I'd love to see that many at once.

Does anyone have access to Tinter's 1991 description of Theraphosa apophysis? (Then Pseudotheraphosa apophysis)? That may help give some extra distinguishing features on top of the palpi emboli, tibial apophysis, and color. It probably is in German since Tinter published it in a German journal if I remember correctly, but translating it shouldn't be too difficult.


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## Satellite Rob (Nov 24, 2009)

Hay fran I don't know how you measure your T's.But that T is under 11".You 
wanted to see a picture of what I see at least twice a weeks.This is a picture 
of Joe from Oasis and he's standing in front more than 600 T.Blondi's.Each 
small section hold 24 T's.This is my world.I took this picture of Joe about 3 
weeks ago when we were working.Joe has been helping me out 1 day a week 
for the last 4 or 5 months now.Joe comes to work but he thinks it more like 
play.This is just a small spot in the T room and still a lot more TB's in the room.


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## Fran (Nov 24, 2009)

Satellite Rob said:


> Hay fran I don't know how you measure your T's.But that T is under 11".You
> .


The tarantulas in the hobby, normally, are measured in diagonal leg span.
And that Theraphosa blondi of the picture, Here and in Japan is 11 inches.
I dont see where is the possible discussion in that.


PS: Let me point out that only a couple of hours after they die are enought to make them  loose girth,(fluids,rigor mortis, etc) so im sure  she was a little bit  over 11".


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## jayefbe (Nov 24, 2009)

You can stretch out a dead T's legs farther than a live one's.  There's a huge debate on how to accurately measure tarantula size, and that is one of the issues.


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## Fran (Nov 24, 2009)

jayefbe said:


> You can stretch out a dead T's legs farther than a live one's.  There's a huge debate on how to accurately measure tarantula size, and that is one of the issues.


There were no stretching out. One can believe ir or not, but Im saying what is the truth. The only stretching was made  to lay the legs flat instead of in a regular live T position, so I can get a propper measure. Nothing else.


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## jayefbe (Nov 24, 2009)

Fran said:


> There where no stretching out. One can believe ir or not, but Im saying what is the truth. The only stretching was made  to lay the legs flat instead of in a regular live T position, so I can get a propper measure. Nothing else.


Yeah, that's kinda the point I was making.  Tarantulas don't lay their legs out flat, so what is an accurate measurement?  A natural stretched out live position (like when it is walking), or a dead flat position?  There are no hard and fast rules about how to take these measurements, so one person's 12" is another person's 11".


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## Fran (Nov 24, 2009)

jayefbe said:


> Yeah, that's kinda the point I was making.  Tarantulas don't lay their legs out flat, so what is an accurate measurement?  A natural stretched out live position (like when it is walking), or a dead flat position?  There are no hard and fast rules about how to take these measurements, so one person's 12" is another person's 11".


Well I dont think thats correct.
When , as far as I have seen, read and believed,  there were "oficial" leg span measurements they were done after the T was dead, or over a cast exuvia, flat to the ground.
Theres no such thing as a measure "as the tarantula is regularly walking", that would be absolutely inacurate.It would be a matter of opinions. "Is that t stretched or is walking regularly?"....That doesn make sense.

If so, one can say well, that snake measurement is wrong. The snakes dont move naturally stretched out  absolutely stiff.So your 30 feet anaconda is in fact 5...
 And so on and on with different animals.


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## jayefbe (Nov 24, 2009)

Hey, I'm not saying one way is right or wrong.  I'm just bringing up the other side of the debate.  A lot of people measure by placing a T on graph paper or another surface with pre-marked squares, and then record the legspan as the farthest distance between legs as the T travels.  Feel free to search this board about this topic, it's a huge never-ending debate that extends far beyond this thread's purposes.


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## Xian (Nov 24, 2009)

I like to measure mine by length, although sometimes I measure by height!


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## Fran (Nov 24, 2009)

jayefbe said:


> Hey, I'm not saying one way is right or wrong.  I'm just bringing up the other side of the debate.  A lot of people measure by placing a T on graph paper or another surface with pre-marked squares, and then record the legspan as the farthest distance between legs as the T travels.  Feel free to search this board about this topic, it's a huge never-ending debate that extends far beyond this thread's purposes.



I have seen those pictures, but I think they were made like that because at the moment they didnt have any other way to measure the tarantula.

But to consider that thats the propper way to measure its absolutely inacurate and ridiculous. At least under my point of view  , im really amazed by your post...dont get me wrong, Im just amazed that that "style of meaurment" can even be considered.

I mean, when you measure anything in an oficial way, you measure it under the maximun lenght possible wihout changing the real physical conditions , the physical estructure of the body that is being measured.


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## pato_chacoana (Nov 24, 2009)

Satellite Rob said:


> Hay fran I don't know how you measure your T's.But that T is under 11".You
> wanted to see a picture of what I see at least twice a weeks.This is a picture
> of Joe from Oasis and he's standing in front more than 600 T.Blondi's.Each
> small section hold 24 T's.This is my world.I took this picture of Joe about 3
> ...


what a sad sight...


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## jayefbe (Nov 24, 2009)

Fran said:


> I mean, when you measure anything in an oficial way, you measure it under the maximun lenght possible wihout changing the real physical conditions of the body that is being measured.


My understanding is that it is physically impossible for a tarantula to have its legs stretched out flat while it is alive, so measuring it post-mortem is in fact changing the physical conditions of the body.

It took some searching, but I finally found the post with a quote from Stan Schultz going over this exact issue.  3rd post down.

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=42820&page=2


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## Fran (Nov 24, 2009)

jayefbe said:


> My understanding is that it is physically impossible for a tarantula to have its legs stretched out flat while it is alive, so measuring it post-mortem is in fact changing the physical conditions of the body.
> 
> It took some searching, but I finally found the post with a quote from Stan Schultz going over this exact issue.  3rd post down.
> 
> http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=42820&page=2


Its not physically impossible,Tarantulas do stretch out in some situations  in the cages, absolutely stretching out. But the tension while measuring the T is indeed a factor to consider.

Althought what Stan points out about the weight...
Measurment in lenght is one thing, and mass is another.
You can say, this tarantula male has a greater leg span than his female of the specie, but the female is heavier.


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## rasputin (Nov 24, 2009)

Fran said:


> Its not physically impossible,Tarantulas do stretch out in some situations  in the cages, absolutely stretching out.


Fran is correct: http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=168368

*I'm not saying that I agree with all the debate of the thread but the afforementioned statement is correct


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## Fran (Nov 24, 2009)

Hey man  )

I mean, in so many situations. After molting, while climbing and hangin off the lids...They do can stretch out the legs while they are alive.
Is not like flexing the legs in the oposite direction.
 Their estrucrture let the T's do so.


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## Satellite Rob (Nov 24, 2009)

That is a large TB.But I have seen a bunch that size over last 20 years.Two   
months ago I sold a 10-1/2 inch immature male to a friend of mine that you all  
know.When it matures it should have at least a 12" legspan and a picture will be  
posted of it.That is a large T for a female TB.But not for a male.The largest leg-  
span ever recorded on a TB was a mature male that measured 12.5".This male 
when it matures could be real close to that.He only has to increase his leg- 
span by a little less 20% to reach that mark.We all know that maturing males 
have there largest increase in legspan on there maturing final molt.I wish I 
could post a picture of him but he doesn't belong to me.Anyway he promised 
he would post a picture of him after he molts mature and that will be in less 
year.So then we will see a real monster TB looks like.


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## xhexdx (Nov 24, 2009)

Fran said:


> Hey man  )
> 
> I mean, in so many situations. After molting, while climbing and hangin off the lids...They do can stretch out the legs while they are alive.
> Is not like flexing the legs in the oposite direction.
> Their estrucrture let the T's do so.


Hey guys...

Can we get back on topic here?  I thought we were discussing whether that's a blobdi or apophysis.

There are plenty of 'how to measure my spider' threads we can move all this stuff to. :}

Btw, I think it's a blondi.


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## Fran (Nov 24, 2009)

Satellite Rob said:


> That is a large TB.But I have seen a bunch that size over .Two month ago
> I sold a 10-1/2 inch immature male to a friend of mine that you all know.Once
> it matures it should have at least a 12" legspan and a picture will be posted
> of it.That is a large T for a female TB.But not for a male.There largest legsp
> ...



Not that I dont believe you. You are right,it could be.But "could be" or "will be" doesnt  mean an actual measurment .

I dont doubt your word. But I have owned well over  100  adult T Blondis, and I have seen quite many, and its not like  you see an 11 inches one on a daily basis.
In fact, is the only real measurment one I have ever seen over 10.5


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## Fran (Nov 24, 2009)

xhexdx said:


> Hey guys...
> 
> Can we get back on topic here?  I thought we were discussing whether that's a blobdi or apophysis.
> 
> ...


You are right. Sorry to go of topic.


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## Satellite Rob (Nov 24, 2009)

I agree with all of you lets get back on topic.Does anyone know how to 
remove a post from another thread so it can be posted on this thread. 
There was a thread about a week ago it was on-Trarantula Question & 
Discussions the thread was called-Got  male Theraphosa apophysis.There                   was a post made by Philth that showed some great pictures of a mature 
male T.Apophysis.The post was made on 11-13-2009 at 6:45 PM.Would 
anybody know how to move it here.


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## MACZ (Nov 24, 2009)

Thanks for all your help guys it looks like more people think its a blondi but I know it can be difficult to tell from a picture between the two:?  I should have started a poll so it would be easy to count the votes on what you think it is.


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## MACZ (Nov 24, 2009)

Satellite Rob said:


> It's a 100% T.Blondi.I feed almost 500 on saturday and theres no question
> about it.I'm still itching from it.


Hi Rob as you are so confident with the ID what makes it stand out from an apophysis no way am I disputing your answer but I would also like to know how I can tell the difference in the future as these are the spiders I am concentrating on in my hobby.


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## Satellite Rob (Nov 24, 2009)

Satellite Rob said:


> You wanted to see a picture of what I see at least twice a weeks.This is a picture
> of Joe from Oasis and he's standing in front more than 600 T.Blondi's.Each
> small section hold 24 T's.This is my world.I took this picture of Joe about 3
> weeks ago when we were working.Joe has been helping me out 1 day a week
> ...




Hay MACZ you have a TB which has one of the more common color morph. 
She looks like she is great shape and I hope you have many years with her.


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## JC (Nov 24, 2009)

Satellite Rob said:


> Hay MACZ you have a TB which has one of the more common color morph.
> She looks like she is great shape and I hope you have many years with her.



Like I said...HOOK ME UP! 

BTW, I think its a nice looking T.blondi the OP posted. I would like to get one like that. (or five  )


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## joshuai (Nov 24, 2009)

jayefbe said:


> Yeah, that's kinda the point I was making.  Tarantulas don't lay their legs out flat, so what is an accurate measurement?  A natural stretched out live position (like when it is walking), or a dead flat position?  There are no hard and fast rules about how to take these measurements, so one person's 12" is another person's 11".


my blondi just molted last week and is currently in a pokie stace with its legs out flat.


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## MACZ (Nov 24, 2009)

Satellite Rob said:


> Hay MACZ you have a TB which has one of the more common color morph.
> She looks like she is great shape and I hope you have many years with her.


:worship::worship: I would like some of those Rob


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## Stan Schultz (Nov 24, 2009)

MACZ said:


> Hi sorry to post this in here put I posted the picture in the ID section of the forum and had no reply What spider would you say this one was as I cant find out how to tell them apart thanks. ...


Several (actually, many) years ago Marguerite and I were visiting Rick C. West in Victory, BC, Canada. Inevitably, our conversation turned to the filming of _Giant Spiders of the Amazon_. I asked Rick which species was shown in that documentary and he said something to the effect of, "They were either _blondi_ or _apophysis_, but I couldn't tell the difference in the field." (Not an exact quote. My memory isn't *that* good!)

The point here is that if a noted taxonomist like Rick can't distinguish between the living specimens when he has them in his hands in the field, there's no way between Heaven and Hades that any of us are going to be able to make that determination from a photo on the Internet. Sorry to disappoint you.

For what it's worth, the number of _blondis_ in the hobby exceeds the number of _apophysis_ be several orders of magnitude. And, virtually everybody who has an _apophysis_ knows for a fact what it is. They're that uncommon. Unless you acquired this spider under some very unusual conditions that might lead you to suspect you had been sold or given an _apophysis_ by accident, you can pretty much bet it's a _blondi_.

There is one way to distinguish them rather easily, I was once told by Jeremy Huff (I believe.) _T. blondi's_ bristles are exceedingly irritating, but bearable. _T. apophysis'_ bristles are in a whole worse league of their own. I was told that you begin itching when you merely walk into the same room with one of them! Not very scientific, I know, but it's the best I've got.

Enjoy your itchy spider, whatever it is!


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## DanHalen (Nov 24, 2009)

Pikaia said:


> Several (actually, many) years ago Marguerite and I were visiting Rick C. West in Victory, BC, Canada. Inevitably, our conversation turned to the filming of _Giant Spiders of the Amazon_. I asked Rick which species was shown in that documentary and he said something to the effect of, "They were either _blondi_ or _apophysis_, but I couldn't tell the difference in the field." (Not an exact quote. My memory isn't *that* good!)
> 
> *The point here is that if a noted taxonomist like Rick can't distinguish between the living specimens when he has them in his hands in the field, there's no way between Heaven and Hades that any of us are going to be able to make that determination from a photo on the Internet. Sorry to disappoint you.*
> 
> ...


I'm sorry, but I disagree quite strongly on that one. Blondi and apophysis are quite easily differentiated by femur thickness.

Also, I wouldn't call apophysis an uncommon species by any stretch of the imagonation. I've seen far more CB apophysis for sale in the last year than blondi.

In regards to an identification, it's certainly not an apophysis.


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## Jmugleston (Nov 24, 2009)

So far I've used and heard that color, femur thickness, "leginess", etc. are all distinguishing characters. Yet nobody seems to have access to the source for all this information? You'd think that somebody would have access to the species description (it was only 19 years ago for T. apophysis) so that we could see if other descriptive traits were mentioned. Otherwise there will be a load of speculation on the adult females and confidence on identifying only the adult males down to species. With the exception of those that follow Ernst Mayr, the "I've seen a ton of these so I know what a species is" mentality doesn't typically fly outside the hobbyist realm. I realize I'm guilty a bit on this as well with the whole Theraphosa sp. issue. Personally I'd say the OP has a T. blondi....because it looks like my T. blondi. Sadly I cannot seem to find the description papers to key out this species as I have for some of my other Ts.


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## MACZ (Nov 24, 2009)

This thread has all been a very good experience for me and I would like to thank every one for their input on this topic.As most have already said it can be difficult to tell them apart some say the colour and some say the thickness of the legs give it away.I tend to agree with the latter on go on leg thickness but at the end of the day this species is my all time favorite spider and thats why I am trying to gain as much information on the species as I can,I have searched the net and have drawn a blank with a positive way to identify the two spiders in question but after posting on here it has shed a little more light on the subject.
Thanks again to everyone that took part MACZ.


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## DanHalen (Nov 24, 2009)

I cant say that the spider in question is definitely a blondi. Could be either blondi or sp. "burgundy", but I'd put very good money on the spider in question not being an apohysis.

Unfortunately, I gave up my theraphosa collection a couple of years back now to concentrate on old world arboreals, so I don't have any photo's of my own to post up.

However, the follwing picture found in this thread is one of the better resources pointing out some of each species characteristics.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Jmugleston (Nov 24, 2009)

DanHalen said:


> I cant say that the spider in question is definitely a blondi. Could be either blondi or sp. "burgundy", but I'd put very good money on the spider in question not being an apohysis.
> 
> Unfortunately, I gave up my theraphosa collection a couple of years back now to concentrate on old world arboreals, so I don't have any photo's of my own to post up.
> 
> However, the follwing picture found in this thread is one of the better resources pointing out some of each species characteristics.


Not the species description, but the best literal side by side comparison I've seen.


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## MACZ (Nov 24, 2009)

DanHalen said:


> I cant say that the spider in question is definitely a blondi. Could be either blondi or sp. "burgundy", but I'd put very good money on the spider in question not being an apohysis.
> 
> Unfortunately, I gave up my theraphosa collection a couple of years back now to concentrate on old world arboreals, so I don't have any photo's of my own to post up.
> 
> However, the follwing picture found in this thread is one of the better resources pointing out some of each species characteristics.


Just by looking at the femur in legs 1 and 2 I would say 100% the spider is a blondi thanks you.:worship:


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## Fran (Nov 24, 2009)

In this picture it doesnt seem such an imposible task to tell them appart...


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## Exo (Nov 24, 2009)

Fran said:


> In this picture it doesnt seem such an imposible task to tell them appart...


Yeah, I think Rick West might be loosing his touch.....


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## MACZ (Nov 25, 2009)

Well at least all of us that have read this thread now know how to tell them apart


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## jebbewocky (Nov 29, 2009)

Oh man, it took me a sec to figure out those were exuviams and I freaked the hell out.


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## Oreo (Nov 22, 2013)

Apologies for dragging up this dated thread. Based on the information available now, what species is the OP's T? Doesn't appear to be a T. blondi compared to other photos I've seen.


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## Hobo (Nov 22, 2013)

It was a T. stirmi.
This thread was before there was a distinction between the two.


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## Poec54 (Nov 22, 2013)

Pikaia said:


> There is one way to distinguish them rather easily, I was once told by Jeremy Huff (I believe.) _T. blondi's_ bristles are exceedingly irritating, but bearable. _T. apophysis'_ bristles are in a whole worse league of their own. I was told that you begin itching when you merely walk into the same room with one of them! Not very scientific, I know, but it's the best I've got.


I heard that too, in the 1990's, maybe it was the same story floating around that we both heard.  But, how do we know how much is individual reaction to the hairs?  Also depends on how much the spider kicks, how much the owner pokes it, and the kind of cage it's in.  All of those can help to distribute hairs all over the room.  I would completely disregard the 'itchiness factor' when ID'ing Theraphosa.  All speculation.


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## Keith B (Nov 22, 2013)

Neither.  T. stirmi or "sp. Burgundy" or "Goliath Burgundy Birdeater", whatever you wanna call it.  I can't tell the following apart, but I can seperate stirmi.  blondi and apophysis both have noticeably hairy patella segments, whereas T. stirmi has smooth looking patella.  The pricetag is always "wow what a deal" noticeably cheap, and T. stirmi is very often sold to the unwary in vast numbers as a true T. blondi.  blondi and apophysis are both difficult to come by, so a solid business strategy is to keep the ID vague.  T. blondi gets bought up like hotcakes, but were it an impostor, not so much.  The last expo I went to had 3 very cheaply priced "Goliath Birdeater", all of which were T. stirmi.  It's a business tactic right now, so I would take any vendors word with a grain of salt, but that's just me and MHO.  Also IMHO it's all the same genus, the care regimen is the same, and it's still an awesome, large T.  I wouldn't sweat what it is, unless you overpaid   If yours is really 7" then it's characteristics are set, and it's a T. stirmi to me.

In fact, if you go back to page one, and look at the OP's pictures, and compare them to Frans picture, you can see the difference in the patella.  OP's smooth, Fran's bristles all over.


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## Oreo (Nov 22, 2013)

Thanks for confirming my suspicions. Regarding ID via itch, perhaps we can find a volunteer to rub a blondi on one cheek and an apophysis on the other.


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## Poec54 (Nov 22, 2013)

Keith B said:


> T. stirmi is very often sold to the unwary in vast numbers as a true T. blondi.  blondi and apophysis are both difficult to come by, so a solid business strategy is to keep the ID vague... I would take any vendors word with a grain of salt.  Also IMHO it's all the same genus, the care regimen is the same, and it's still an awesome, large T.


'Unwary' is a strong term.  I think it's 'uninformed' on both sides.  I wouldn't fault vendors for selling stirmi as blondi, especially w/c specimens, as you can see from this thread most people on the forum don't know how to tell the 3 Theraphosa's apart either (and it's been discussed here for years).  The average person wanting a Theraphosa is better off with a stirmi anyways, as it's a hardier spider and isn't as difficult to reproduce in captivity.  If they were buying blondi's as often as they think they were, there would be a higher loss rate.  If one Theraphosa should be dominant in the hobby, it's stirmi.  To me, it works out well.  The 'unwary' usually wind up with a spider that's better-suited for them.  The name blondi, or even 'le blondi' has been in the hobby for decades, so people ask for it because that's the name they've repeatedly heard, often not knowing there's other species in the genus, or that stirmi looks almost identical, but is easier to keep in captivity.  It's not 'blondi' as much as 'wanting the big one.'  As you said, they're all awesome, and any one of them are great to have in your collection.  There's simply nothing like an adult Theraphosa.  

For the few hardcore collectors that really want a blondi, they should know how to ID them anyways, and are likely saavy enough to verify that in person or with pics before the purchase.  This is hardly unique to Theraphosa; look at how many other genera have confusing or misnamed species, Avicularia being a prime example.  Theraphosa's an exercise in simplicity in comparison.


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## Keith B (Nov 22, 2013)

Agreed. Uninformed works for me, with unwary not intended to be used strongly. I can believe that vendors can be misinformed too, as the genus is confusing as is.  The reference point I use is also from limited sources.  For all I know, it could be backwards, with stirmi having bristles on the patella.  I'd be looking into those references now, but I have so much going on at the moment.  If anyone wants to fish through descriptions, be my guest 

Edit: actually Fran posted a few threads down the descriptions, also mentioning the setae on the patella.  Just noticed

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