# A lovely surprise



## schmiggle (Aug 9, 2017)

This beautiful flower awaited me this morning!


It's self-fertile and self-pollinating (it's actually already closed). You can see the pistils arranged around the stamens so that when the flower closed they get rubbed with pollen. I have lots more buds, so by the end of this I may have more seeds than I know what to do with

Reactions: Like 2 | Love 1


----------



## Leila (Aug 9, 2017)

What kind of flower is that? So beautiful!


----------



## spotropaicsav (Aug 10, 2017)

Are those buds arranged below the top bloom on the main stem?


----------



## schmiggle (Aug 10, 2017)

Leila said:


> What kind of flower is that? So beautiful!


Thanks! I can't believe I forgot to say what plant  This is a thread-leaf sundew, Drosera filiformis.


spotropaicsav said:


> Are those buds arranged below the top bloom on the main stem?


Yes. They develop from the top down--it honestly looks like it might still be developing buds, although it's hard to tell. Each one opens sequentially, I think, though maybe at some point more than one opens at a time. Because they're self pollinating it doesn't really matter if they open together or not. If I'm lucky another will have opened today

Reactions: Informative 1 | Love 4


----------



## Ratmosphere (Aug 10, 2017)

Love that beauty!

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## spotropaicsav (Aug 11, 2017)

schmiggle said:


> Thanks! I can't believe I forgot to say what plant  This is a thread-leaf sundew, Drosera filiformis.
> 
> Yes. They develop from the top down--it honestly looks like it might still be developing buds, although it's hard to tell. Each one opens sequentially, I think, though maybe at some point more than one opens at a time. Because they're self pollinating it doesn't really matter if they open together or not. If I'm lucky another will have opened today


Lovely! I think I'm turning green over here  where did you get it? Keep posting pics as it blooms?


----------



## schmiggle (Aug 11, 2017)

spotropaicsav said:


> Lovely! I think I'm turning green over here  where did you get it? Keep posting pics as it blooms?


Sure! Strokes my ego too  this plant arrived two or three years ago from California carnivores, you could probably go pick one up. It decided to bloom when it arrived, but I didn't want to stress it with spending energy on a flower after it arrived, so I cut it off. This plant is actually a division from that one--it had three growth points, but I killed the other two mostly through neglect. They're very cheap, probably because they're easy, grow fairly quickly, and are a cinch to propagate from divisions (maybe from seed too--I'll let you know in a few months ).
What's your climate like, by the way? I'm sure you can grow these, but there's a good chance you can grow highland Nepenthes (Asian tropical pitcher plants) outside year round, and those put almost every other carnivorous plant to shame with their often huge traps (though the smaller ones often have nicer shapes) and 30 foot vines.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Informative 1


----------



## mconnachan (Aug 11, 2017)

schmiggle said:


> Sure! Strokes my ego too  this plant arrived two or three years ago from California carnivores, you could probably go pick one up. It decided to bloom when it arrived, but I didn't want to stress it with spending energy on a flower after it arrived, so I cut it off. This plant is actually a division from that one--it had three growth points, but I killed the other two mostly through neglect. They're very cheap, probably because they're easy, grow fairly quickly, and are a cinch to propagate from divisions (maybe from seed too--I'll let you know in a few months ).
> What's your climate like, by the way? I'm sure you can grow these, but there's a good chance you can grow highland Nepenthes (Asian tropical pitcher plants) outside year round, and those put almost every other carnivorous plant to shame with their often huge traps (though the smaller ones often have nicer shapes) and 30 foot vines.


I've been looking into carnivorous plants, like the pitcher plant, and the Venus fly trap, amongst others, I'm going to have a look online, to see what I can find here in the UK.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## schmiggle (Aug 11, 2017)

mconnachan said:


> I've been looking into carnivorous plants, like the pitcher plant, and the Venus fly trap, amongst others, I'm going to have a look online, to see what I can find here in the UK.


You should be able to grow most temperate drosera and pinguicula outside, as well as many sarracenia. It's largely dependent on where you are in Scotland. If you're in one of the warmer areas, you'll be able to grow Dionaea (venus flytraps) outside, as well as Darlingtonia, though I'd wait until you have some experience for the latter. You'll also be able to grow most sarracenia. Inside, you could start with some easier highland Nepenthes which you could probably leave outside most of the year (most can't tolerate frost, and those that can are super challenging), as well as tropical Pinguicula and Drosera (D. capensis is a classic starter carnivorous plant). Anyone can grow certain utricularia, too, but I personally find them boring.
I'll be able to make better suggestions with some climate information and knowing what you're interested in.


----------



## mconnachan (Aug 11, 2017)

schmiggle said:


> You should be able to grow most temperate drosera and pinguicula outside, as well as many sarracenia. It's largely dependent on where you are in Scotland. If you're in one of the warmer areas, you'll be able to grow Darlingtonia outside, though I'd wait until you have some experience, and you'll also be able to grow most sarracenia. Inside, you could start with some easier highland Nepenthes which you could probably leave outside most of the year (most can't tolerate frost, and those that can are super challenging), as well as tropical Pinguicula and Drosera (D. capensis is a classic starter carnivorous plant). Anyone can grow certain utricularia, too, but I personally find them boring.
> I'll be able to make better suggestions with some climate information and knowing what you're interested in.


I'm on the east coast of Scotland, windy, wet, typical Scottish weather, we get some great sun in the summer, but it never lasts long, I'm interested in house plants rather than outdoor ones, although my garden is quite secluded, so there would be a chance that I could grow outdoors as well, i'm really liking the VFT - although I have zero experience with carnivorous plants, D. capensis sounds right for my lack of knowledge at this point, do you have any pictures of the D. capensis. That would be extremely helpful, thanks.


----------



## schmiggle (Aug 11, 2017)

Here is today's update (fyi, I won't be able to do one every day necessarily, primarily because these open at an awkward hour if I'm working that day).


It's a weird mutant flower! Usually they have five part rotational symmetry--five petals, five sepals, five stamens--but this one has four part rotational symmetry--four of each of those parts (stamens are the yellow things in the middle that hold the pollen, sepals are the green things in this case that are between the petals). Sundews do usually have five-part symmetrical flowers, and I wonder if a cutting of some sort from this flower would make a cultivar with four part symmetry. Maybe I'll try to do that...
@mconnachan the internet is your friend for such pictures  but here is D. capensis.





The main thing to keep in mind with any of these is they all love bright light, the brighter the better (with the exception of many Pinguicula and Nepenthes, but even they need lots of light). You can definitely grow Venus flytraps indoors, but you will need to give them some sort of winter rest. Barry Rice, who wrote the carnivorous plant faq (which you should look up), says Venus flytraps are fairly challenging, but I must admit I never had too much trouble with them. I just found them boring, and then one day mine got eaten by a rabbit. On the other hand, I grew them outside in bright light, which I'm sure made them more robust.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## mconnachan (Aug 11, 2017)

schmiggle said:


> @mconnachan the internet is your friend for such pictures  but here is D. capensis.


That's really quite pretty, what would you feed to such a carnivorous plant, flies, bugs in general, I don't have a clue - honestly, I've grown many plants in the past but never any carnivores.


----------



## keks (Aug 11, 2017)

Your Drosera is beautiful @schmiggle .

I didn't want any carnivores again, but I got about two months ago seven big pots Sarracenia (I think purpurea) for 2 Euro each. One of them has a bud now! I can't wait to see the bloom. I have a Nepenthes again, and a Dionaea muscipula (but I never again wanna to have this ^^). They are all on my balcony, even the Nepenthes. She is thriving, but without her cans. Dianaea has two new traps. I enjoy them totally. This time I think I have more luck than the last time.


----------



## keks (Aug 11, 2017)

mconnachan said:


> That's really quite pretty, what would you feed to such a carnivorous plant, flies, bugs in general, I don't have a clue - honestly, I've grown many plants in the past but never any carnivores.


This plants should be outdoors, and there you don't feed anything. You give them rainwater, or destilled water, or osmose water ... they should always have water in the saucer. And sunlight.

Reactions: Helpful 1


----------



## mconnachan (Aug 11, 2017)

Drosera derbyensis, looks amazing, would this beautiful specimen be too difficult for me to grow and care for - with my limited knowledge of these stunning plants, also how difficult would they be to buy, they look so amazingly beautiful....


----------



## keks (Aug 11, 2017)

mconnachan said:


> Drosera derbyensis, looks amazing, would this beautiful specimen be too difficult for me to grow and care for - with my limited knowledge of these stunning plants, also how difficult would they be to buy, they look so amazingly beautiful....


I researched a bit for this plant, I didn't know it. It is wonderful, but it needs very much light, high humidity, and high temperatures, maybe a dry time too. So it seems to be a plant for a terrarium, with temperatures about 40 °C and as said high humidity. This high temperatures and much light I think needs HQI-lamps. 
This plant needs a big effort for my opinion . How sensitive it is, I don't know.


----------



## mconnachan (Aug 11, 2017)

keks said:


> I researched a bit for this plant, I didn't know it. It is wonderful, but it needs very much light, high humidity, and high temperatures, maybe a dry time too. So it seems to be a plant for a terrarium, with temperatures about 40 °C and as said high humidity. This high temperatures and much light I think needs HQI-lamps.
> This plant needs a big effort for my opinion . How sensitive it is, I don't know.


Haha - that makes it a non starter for me then, temps here get to 20c at best, but in an artificial environment, it would be quite possible, I've seen little LED terrarium/faunarium type set ups, they would look really smart. I'm not sure about prices etc. this was way back, but I could have a look. and see how much they come in at ££.PP?


----------



## keks (Aug 11, 2017)

mconnachan said:


> Haha - that makes it a non starter for me then, temps here get to 20c at best, but in an artificial environment, it would be quite possible, I've seen little LED terrarium/faunarium type set ups, they would look really smart. I'm not sure about prices etc. this was way back, but I could have a look. and see how much they come in at ££.PP?


I have no experience with LED light, as far as I know this light keeps on the cooler side. So you have to think about heating up this terrarium to 40 °C ^^. 

When we have more of this hot summers, I really consider to move to the north. 20°C are my favorite temperatures .... not 36°C -.-"

Reactions: Agree 1 | Love 1


----------



## mconnachan (Aug 11, 2017)

keks said:


> I have no experience with LED light, as far as I know this light keeps on the cooler side. So you have to think about heating up this terrarium to 40 °C ^^.
> 
> When we have more of this hot summers, I really consider to move to the north. 20°C are my favorite temperatures .... not 36°C -.-"


As I've said time after time, I'm so glad I live right here in Scotland, 36c is way too high a temperature for me, I'm happy with 20-23c we get in summer - as for our winters they just seem to be getting milder and milder, year in year out, nah they can keep those temps to themselves, wherever "they" may live. It's just not to my liking, and that's all. No offence to anyone, but how can you stand those temps guys and gals.


----------



## Chris LXXIX (Aug 11, 2017)

keks said:


> 20°C are my favorite temperatures .... not 36°C -.-"


Ah ah, we had here, in one of the most (hystorically) colder regions of Italy, almost 45°C like in El Alamein desert and weather-pundits keep saying we should get used to that 

Praise the climate mess, what can I say... if nothing, my T's will be able to thrive outside straight in the garden. Enclosure, you say? Which enclosure?

Reactions: Funny 2


----------



## schmiggle (Aug 11, 2017)

I'd avoid Drosera derbyensis until you have some experience with other plants. D capensis also likes a terrarium, although you could probably do fine with just artificial lighting.
@keks which Nepenthes species do you have?


----------



## keks (Aug 11, 2017)

schmiggle said:


> I'd avoid Drosera derbyensis until you have some experience with other plants. D capensis also likes a terrarium, although you could probably do fine with just artificial lighting.
> @keks which Nepenthes species do you have?


It is a DIY-market-no-name-hybrid-one for a few Euros, nothing special. I need hardy plants ^^.


----------



## keks (Aug 11, 2017)

Chris LXXIX said:


> Ah ah, we had here, in one of the most (hystorically) colder regions of Italy, almost 45°C like in El Alamein desert and weather-pundits keep saying we should get used to that
> 
> Praise the climate mess, what can I say... if nothing, my T's will be able to thrive outside straight in the garden. Enclosure, you say? Which enclosure?


I've heard of this heat in Italy, I am sure I would die with this temperatures . 
"Have you seen your tarantulas today?" "No, I still wasn't in my garden today."
On the other side ....  with this temperatures you can keep Drosera derbyensis and some scorpions too in your garden  .

Reactions: Funny 1 | Love 1


----------



## schmiggle (Aug 13, 2017)

Today's update (sorry for missing yesterday's, @spotropaicsav)





Today's flower is also a mutant--as you can see, it has six petals, and I confirmed that it also has six stamens and six sepals. However, every single flower has had exactly six pistils, so I assume their development is disconnected from that of the rest of the flower.
I'm much more fond of today's flower than I was of the four-petalled one, but sadly I don't know of a way to preserve the characteristic.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## spotropaicsav (Aug 14, 2017)

schmiggle said:


> Today's update (sorry for missing yesterday's, @spotropaicsav)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well AB Was down after all... this pic is rivalaing my daily botany photo, mind if I save? Perhaps your specimen  is just evolved... are you wanting to preserve this bloom is that it? Or just preserve the way it is flowering?


----------



## schmiggle (Aug 14, 2017)

spotropaicsav said:


> Well AB Was down after all... this pic is rivalaing my daily botany photo, mind if I save? Perhaps your specimen  is just evolved... are you wanting to preserve this bloom is that it? Or just preserve the way it is flowering?


Go ahead and save if you like. This is a thing plants do--make mutated bits. It's like a benign tumor in origin, kind of.
What I'd like to preserve is the characteristic, so that I could have a plant that reliably flowered with six petals (or four, in the case of the other one). I could probably do it with tissue culture, but I have neither the equipment nor experience to use it. My assumption is that both changes were mutations in the bud tissue around when they were formed, so the entire odd flower ought to have the mutation. I can't root it, according to those more experienced than I, because it's too small and it would die.

Reactions: Informative 1


----------



## keks (Aug 14, 2017)

schmiggle said:


> Go ahead and save if you like. This is a thing plants do--make mutated bits. It's like a benign tumor in origin, kind of.
> What I'd like to preserve is the characteristic, so that I could have a plant that reliably flowered with six petals (or four, in the case of the other one). I could probably do it with tissue culture, but I have neither the equipment nor experience to use it. My assumption is that both changes were mutations in the bud tissue around when they were formed, so the entire odd flower ought to have the mutation. I can't root it, according to those more experienced than I, because it's too small and it would die.


Is this a self-fertile plant? Maybe you can try to pollinate with its own pollen??? Maybe you can secure this mutation (in ... generation)?


----------



## schmiggle (Aug 14, 2017)

keks said:


> Is this a self-fertile plant? Maybe you can try to pollinate with its own pollen??? Maybe you can secure this mutation (in ... generation)?


It's very self-fertile, its primary mode of reproduction is self-pollination (the flowers open just so they can close and force the pollen against the pistils). But the flower characteristic is somatic (asexual)--it has nothing to do with the pollen and ovary DNA, which are germline (sexual). That's why you'd have to use the seed pod/bud/mutant flower--it should have the odd characteristic, so if you grew a plant out of it there's a good chance it would make mostly six-petaled flowers. If I were going to selectively breed I'd have to do it with the offspring, and I would have to time it pretty exactly to the hour or two in a day when they were open (and it could be harder still, because I don't know if they open simultaneously).

Reactions: Informative 2


----------



## keks (Aug 15, 2017)

schmiggle said:


> It's very self-fertile, its primary mode of reproduction is self-pollination (the flowers open just so they can close and force the pollen against the pistils). But the flower characteristic is somatic (asexual)--it has nothing to do with the pollen and ovary DNA, which are germline (sexual). That's why you'd have to use the seed pod/bud/mutant flower--it should have the odd characteristic, so if you grew a plant out of it there's a good chance it would make mostly six-petaled flowers. If I were going to selectively breed I'd have to do it with the offspring, and I would have to time it pretty exactly to the hour or two in a day when they were open (and it could be harder still, because I don't know if they open simultaneously).


That sounds very time-consuming and tedious.


----------



## spotropaicsav (Aug 15, 2017)

schmiggle said:


> It's very self-fertile, its primary mode of reproduction is self-pollination (the flowers open just so they can close and force the pollen against the pistils). But the flower characteristic is somatic (asexual)--it has nothing to do with the pollen and ovary DNA, which are germline (sexual). That's why you'd have to use the seed pod/bud/mutant flower--it should have the odd characteristic, so if you grew a plant out of it there's a good chance it would make mostly six-petaled flowers. If I were going to selectively breed I'd have to do it with the offspring, and I would have to time it pretty exactly to the hour or two in a day when they were open (and it could be harder still, because I don't know if they open simultaneously).


You mean you don't have time to sit and watch a plant for 24hours??:wideyed:

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## spotropaicsav (Aug 15, 2017)

Maybe you will have good luck catching it at the right time. Btw my snails Ive been keeping are going strong and very easy to keep

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## schmiggle (Aug 15, 2017)

The flowers seem to just keep getting weirder...





This one is a full double flower (I actually suspected it might be from the bud, which appeared to be double). Unlike previous flowers, I can see 11 pistils in this image, and would not be surprised if there were a 12th (2x6--each previous flower had six pistils). It has ten petals. In the picture it kind of looks like seven, but the top "petal" is actually three petals set one directly behind the other, and there is a small, deformed petal on the bottom (my guess is the bud itself was too crowded for the double flower to fully develop). There are ten stamens and sepals. So this is a full double flower, without a doubt.


----------



## keks (Aug 16, 2017)

schmiggle said:


> The flowers seem to just keep getting weirder...
> 
> This one is a full double flower (I actually suspected it might be from the bud, which appeared to be double). Unlike previous flowers, I can see 11 pistils in this image, and would not be surprised if there were a 12th (2x6--each previous flower had six pistils). It has ten petals. In the picture it kind of looks like seven, but the top "petal" is actually three petals set one directly behind the other, and there is a small, deformed petal on the bottom (my guess is the bud itself was too crowded for the double flower to fully develop). There are ten stamens and sepals. So this is a full double flower, without a doubt.


Will be interesting how the flowers look like next year. From orchids I know that malformed blooms can be normal formed in the next year.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


----------



## schmiggle (Aug 16, 2017)

keks said:


> Will be interesting how the flowers look like next year. From orchids I know that malformed blooms can be normal formed in the next year.


Too bad...I was hoping I had a plant with a high somatic mutation rate


----------



## keks (Aug 16, 2017)

schmiggle said:


> Too bad...I was hoping I had a plant with a high somatic mutation rate


Who knows, maybe next year you have 18 petals on one bloom . But then I would start to be careful. It is a carnivore plant, so look out for something that looks similar to a mouth or teeth and tentacles ....  .

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2


----------



## schmiggle (Aug 17, 2017)

keks said:


> Who knows, maybe next year you have 18 petals on one bloom . But then I would start to be careful. It is a carnivore plant, so look out for something that looks similar to a mouth or teeth and tentacles ....  .


Are you kidding? That would make my day. "Feed me, Seymour!"

Reactions: Funny 3


----------



## spotropaicsav (Aug 18, 2017)

schmiggle said:


> Are you kidding? That would make my day. "Feed me, Seymour!"


You mean "Feed me, Scmiggle!"


----------



## The Snark (Aug 18, 2017)

Or "Feed me... a Schmiggle!"

Reactions: Like 1


----------

