# A. avic project



## grayzone (Jan 27, 2013)

K so starting this one a bit late, but i figured it would be handy to keep my dates accordingly, and to visually update the loaner of the MM.


I bought my 5" female A.avic from a member here back in August right after her molt. A couple weeks went by, and i met up locally with a member to start a breeding project.
The member had a MM that was the same size as my girl, and we tried pairing once with no luck.
I had to leave town for a month, and the member watched my girl until the end of September, and supposedly attempted to pair a few other times.
Fast forward to Mid-December (12/19/12) i recieved a 3 1/2" maximum MM from kyahalhai21311  and immediately went to the pairing attempt. 


This male was in the enclosure for nearly 1 minute and began vibrating. My girl was very quick to turn on the male and began drumming back very animatedly. Something she did NOT do at all with the previous MM i tried using.

This new male got very long insertions with both palps and i pulled him. I tried again about a week later with nothing, so i gave it another week then tried again. The 3rd hook up was successful as well, even though the female was not so enthused. 
The male was safely shipped back to Russell and will be likely seeing his female sooner or later



Anyways, i always knew that these guys were fairly quick to drop, but dang... its been 39 days so far, and her enclosure looks like this


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## grayzone (Jan 27, 2013)

she has been like this for about a week or so now, and up until now she has been eating very greedily.  I havent been giving her special care at all, but tonight i flooded half her cage and upped the heat a bit. 

I never really knew this, but A. avicularia candles like a Poeci, and this girl is VERY bright. She is also very huge for her frame. I wish i could post more pics, but its so hard to see her.

I will update this thread with any new progress, and with any interaction. I will do an official breeding report in the appropriate section when the time comes

Reactions: Like 1


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## grayzone (Jan 29, 2013)

*Behold...*




Looks like one flooding did the trick. This sack was not there yesterday, so she either dropped sometime last night, or through out today. Either way, i am waiting 30 days FROM TODAY.

Reactions: Like 3


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## grayzone (Jan 29, 2013)

this thing is about the size of a golf ball at least btw...


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## BrettG (Jan 29, 2013)

Congrats. In our experiences we have only had 2 Avicularia drop within 60 days,all the rest took their sweet time.Now FORGET about it for 30-40 days and then think about pulling.

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## grayzone (Jan 29, 2013)

Brett, i am definitely forgetting about this one haha. No worrying at all. Ive realised i have no control over these types of situations, and the more i interfere/rush, the more disappointed i get in the long run. 

One question though, seeing how i dont provide my girl a waterdish, should i continue misting every 3-5 days, or what? There is no chance of me being able to place one in with her now without disturbance, as the whole jar is webbed over and cramped

---------- Post added 01-29-2013 at 12:52 PM ----------

there is tons of 1/8" or so vent holes in the enclosure, so maybe i can jimmyrig a syphon of sorts to place in through a hole and get her sub wet as needed


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## Protectyaaaneck (Jan 29, 2013)

I would add some water to the substrate since it appears to be really dry. You'll need to keep the humidity up inside of the enclosure or else you'll be disappointed once you go to pull the eggsac and find a bunch of dried up eggs.

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## grayzone (Jan 29, 2013)

yeah, the sub appears dry in the pic, but i just flooded the back half (the side without all the webbing) like 2 days ago, and its pretty moist.  I didnt flood it all the way, in fear of the "potential sack" (at that point) getting wet or moldy. 

I suppose i could always add more now, as there are holes about 1" above substrate level. shouldnt be to hard, or too much of a disturbance.


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## BrettG (Jan 29, 2013)

Protectyaaaneck said:


> I would add some water to the substrate since it appears to be really dry. You'll need to keep the humidity up inside of the enclosure or else you'll be disappointed once you go to pull the eggsac and find a bunch of dried up eggs.


+1,as Jason said make sure there is at least moisture in the substrate. We have had many Tap sacks produced without a waterbowl in the enclosure,we just made sure to give the substrate a good soaking and most of the time that is all that is needed.


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## grayzone (Jan 29, 2013)

sounds good then... its settled

I will go get some fishtank tubing and see what i cant rig up to a turkey baster. Ill MacGuyver the hell out of some house hold products.

---------- Post added 01-29-2013 at 01:55 PM ----------

No Macguyver action needed. Im a parent, so i naturally have one of these in the bathroom. 
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q...93BCC0A99C1379C6B48F94E2DD3B6&selectedIndex=2

problem solved.


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## catfishrod69 (Jan 29, 2013)

Awsome stuff bro. Congrats! Really hope this one works out for you. You might wanna lock the enclosure in a safe, and tell your girl to not give you the key for 30 days .

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## rasulsimakshah (Jan 29, 2013)

this is awesome!!  hope things continue to go well

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## grayzone (Jan 29, 2013)

no way man.. gotta learn some patience on my own i guess. YOU know why i was really stressin about that ornata sack (which im tossing btw) and now that case is resolved. 
There is no pressure/rush/stressors involved in this one. I will just basically do what Brett advised and forget all about it.  I got the loaner of the MM his male back safely, and it would be nice to shoot him his generous share of slings, but if this sack ends badly, there is no loss ya know? 
I will just keep chugging along gaining experience with each failed attempt until i get it right

---------- Post added 01-29-2013 at 02:20 PM ----------




kyahalhai21311 said:


> this is awesome!!  hope things continue to go well


very awesome indeed. I did a double take when i saw this thing out of the corner of my eye haha. I was checking to see if my C. ritae molted, and saw something really white in the Avic enclosure.. really took me by surprise, as this wasnt here last night and wasnt expecting it for a bit longer.


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## catfishrod69 (Jan 29, 2013)

Yeah you gotta learn to just be patient with em. Its hard to make yourself think, the less you pay attention to them, the better chance they have. Really sorry about the ornata sac. Must have not been meant to be. I had a few sacs recently that were nothing but eggs and didnt go any further. One i was really looking forward to, and it was my second time trying with that female.


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## rasulsimakshah (Jan 29, 2013)

hahah no loss whatsoever. i just appreciate the chance to give a loaner male and have a chance at some slings. ^_^

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## grayzone (Jan 29, 2013)

thanks again btw. 
Im glad i got the chance to repair my girl. I never saw actual insertions with Chrisduhfurs male, and not too sure if there were any while she was in his care. The two were not interested in eachother.

When i first saw your male i was really in disbelief haha. That was probably the smallest MM ive ever seen (ive owned a tiny T. cupreus mm before too) and i was a bit shocked to see the two hit it off and drum back and forth. 

You going to be using him with females of yours, or you got other plans for him?

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## rasulsimakshah (Jan 29, 2013)

of course!

yeah, i bought them as a breeding pair last spring and was so surprised when he matured at his size. was so glad to hear he made good insertions with your female!
saw my female drumming a bit the other night, so i might try to breed her with him once i see a sperm web. if the two don't work out, i'll probably sell him or loan him again...don't want the last bit of his life to go to waste!


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## grayzone (Jan 29, 2013)

hes still real good looking for a MM, so i wouldnt count him out just yet. I dont know the shelf life of a MM avic, but im assuming by him looking good and him still eating (at least in my care) he is good to go for a bit longer.

Toss him in your girls tank and see what happens. He definitely wastes no time when it comes to gettin some.  If/when you pair yours keep me posted on how it goes. 
I will be looking for breeding reports. Id be interested to see how long it takes for YOUR girl to drop as well. Ive looked in the breeding reports, and seen everywhere from 2 days to 2 months or so

---------- Post added 01-29-2013 at 02:45 PM ----------

Also, i cant recall witnessing your MM making sperm webs either. I DID see what i believe to be remnants of web though. Looked like thin bright white strands, and he appeared to be eating them kind of? 

If he goes in, and is running away from your girl he is not loaded. If he goes in and is hesitant, give him time .. he will start vibrating around eventually

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## LadySharon (Jan 29, 2013)

Ok I admit I'm giggling at this thread.  (hope that doesn't offend you. ) 

Btw 30 days is Feb 28th....   GL with this one.  Your experiences will help someone (maybe even me)  in the future.

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## grayzone (Jan 29, 2013)

glad i can make you laugh:biggrin:

Thanks for the luck. Im a quick learner so i wont be making the same mistakes with this attempt. Besides, everybody knows the 3rd times is a charm. This sack HAS to work out.


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## Ceratogyrus (Jan 30, 2013)

Good luck with this one. Hopefully it works out. 
There is so much luck involved with eggcases though. Took me 3 years to get my first successful sac and then you see people that have been in the hobby for a matter of months and get a perfect sac within that time(Kinda annoys me...   ).

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## PEIMike (Jan 30, 2013)

could also use a hypadermic needle to water also, wouldnt have to even touch the enclosure.

ill be checking this thread routinely, hoping you get babies out of this.

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## grayzone (Jan 30, 2013)

Ceratogyrus said:


> Good luck with this one. Hopefully it works out.
> There is so much luck involved with eggcases though. Took me 3 years to get my first successful sac and then you see people that have been in the hobby for a matter of months and get a perfect sac within that time(Kinda annoys me...   ).


Thanks Cera.. and i am with you about the whole aanoying thing. I remember you telling me it took 3 years in another thread and understand completely now. 
What irks me is when people can buy a first t, and it drops for them a week or two after they bring it home. Im glad for them, but jealous at the same time. 

Ive always learned the hard way though, so having to correct my mistakes is nothing new. I see a couple things ive continued to do wrong, and will adjust till i get it right. 
Hopefully my luck starts turnin around. I got a few gravid girls now, and plan on a few new pairings soon enough


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## grayzone (Jan 31, 2013)

Protectyaaaneck said:


> I would add some water to the substrate since it appears to be really dry. You'll need to keep the humidity up inside of the enclosure or else you'll be disappointed once you go to pull the eggsac and find a bunch of dried up eggs.





BrettG said:


> +1,as Jason said make sure there is at least moisture in the substrate. We have had many Tap sacks produced without a waterbowl in the enclosure,we just made sure to give the substrate a good soaking and most of the time that is all that is needed.


Well, i took the advice you guys gave. 
The booger sucker tool thingy wouldnt work due to being too large so i went to Petco and bought a small animal eye dropper. I heavily saturated the soil with the exception of where the sack is. 
I will continue to do so about once a week. 
She is still gaurding it very closely, but have not caught her rolling it up and down the tube. Then again, she is still at my old house and i only go there about every other day. I will likely be carefully driving her to my new house tomorrow (along with a few other ts still there) so i can keep a closer eye


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## Storm76 (Jan 31, 2013)

grayzone said:


> Well, i took the advice you guys gave.
> The booger sucker tool thingy wouldnt work due to being too large so i went to Petco and bought a small animal eye dropper. I heavily saturated the soil with the exception of where the sack is.
> I will continue to do so about once a week.
> She is still gaurding it very closely, but have not caught her rolling it up and down the tube. Then again, she is still at my old house and i only go there about every other day. I will likely be carefully driving her to my new house tomorrow (along with a few other ts still there) so i can keep a closer eye


I haven't bred any species so far, but I'd be careful about moistening the substrate really. It can also attract mites which wouldn't be too good. Wouldn't a bigger waterdish solve the same purpose?


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## grayzone (Jan 31, 2013)

Kind of too late to provide her with a dish   and really dont see much need for one either honestly.  Been keeping her for 6+ months like this, and have been keeping others for like 2 yrs this way and have never had any mite or other problems as of yet. 
Soon as this sack eventually gets pulled, i will just go back to misting and the eye dropper will just become another tool in "the ol' T kit" (which is an abandoned 10 gal tank full of crap.. everything from back up tongs/fake plants/cheese cloth/batteries for lights/etc


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## rasulsimakshah (Jan 31, 2013)

grayzone said:


> Soon as this sack eventually gets pulled, i will just go back to misting and the eye dropper will just become another tool in "the ol' T kit" (which is an abandoned 10 gal tank full of crap.. everything from back up tongs/fake plants/cheese cloth/batteries for lights/etc


hahah i hear you on that!

good luck moving her tomorrow!!  hope she does well and the sack is ok after.


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## grayzone (Jan 31, 2013)

yeah, its seriously like a 3 minute car drive so its not that bad. All smooth back roads.  I dont think it will be too much of a problem. 
I have like 18/20 or so ts still there that have to all get boxed up tight and make the drive.


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## rasulsimakshah (Jan 31, 2013)

hahaha yeah, i've been there. moved my whole collection with me to college at the end of the summer...boxing up like 40 slings and 5 adults and making the 2 1/2 hour drive was nerve wracking haha


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## catfishrod69 (Jan 31, 2013)

Its hard to believe, but backup tongs actually come in handy. Like when a tarantula steals the tongs from you. Have to have something to get them back .





grayzone said:


> back up tongs


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## grayzone (Jan 31, 2013)

i have tongs/foreceps/tweezers of different sizes. 
I misplace them a lot bouncing from one area of ts to another.


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## rasulsimakshah (Jan 31, 2013)

catfishrod69 said:


> Its hard to believe, but backup tongs actually come in handy. Like when a tarantula steals the tongs from you. Have to have something to get them back .


hahaha haven't had that unfortunate experience yet. ^_^


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## catfishrod69 (Jan 31, 2013)

One of my G. rosea ended up with a roach, a set of tweezers, and a paintbrush lol. I had to use my snake tongs to get everything back (well except the roach) .





kyahalhai21311 said:


> hahaha haven't had that unfortunate experience yet. ^_^


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## grayzone (Jan 31, 2013)

Ive been meaning to get a nice snake hook. Makes interacting with large and nasty tarantulas very easy.
A few months ago i was interacting with Chrisduhfurs giant female violaceopes (doing a breeding attempt) with his hook and have been envious ever since. 
I gotta finally get around to buying one.


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## catfishrod69 (Jan 31, 2013)

Im building one. Just a cut off chunk of broom handle, and a 3' piece of 1/8" metal dowel.


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## Protectyaaaneck (Feb 1, 2013)

Storm76 said:


> I haven't bred any species so far, but I'd be careful about moistening the substrate really. It can also attract mites which wouldn't be too good. Wouldn't a bigger waterdish solve the same purpose?


Tarantulas don't need water dishes. They are a waste of time.


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## grayzone (Feb 1, 2013)

I just got tired of constantly having to intrude on my ts to clean feces out of them haha.  My MM B. albo all but sealed the deal for me. After raising that bastard, i vowed not to use waterdishes anymore.

I think a total of 2 in my collection have them.


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## Protectyaaaneck (Feb 1, 2013)

grayzone said:


> I just got tired of constantly having to intrude on my ts to clean feces out of them haha.  My MM B. albo all but sealed the deal for me. After raising that bastard, i vowed not to use waterdishes anymore.
> 
> I think a total of 2 in my collection have them.


I had one water dish for my P. ornata female for the first year I had her but she kept putting substrate in it so I stopped filling it up and have since removed it from her enclosure.  I have over 250 tarantulas now and not a single water dish and they all seem to be doing just fine. Plus, it's way easier to just pour water into the substrate.  I don't think T's have water dishes in the wild either.


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## grayzone (Feb 2, 2013)

I just got tired of all the poo in the dish. I would watch my B. albo (mainly) and a few other ts  walk to their dishes after a cleaning and dip their spinnerettes in there and drop the deuce.

I basically thought to myself that its common knowledge that its ill advised to constantly stress ts (which cage maintenance does, to a degree) and the fact that poo in a water dish is basically the equivilant to a bacteria infested sponge.

I could be way off, but thats my logic. 

I will note that i do enjoy dishes in certain ts enclosures (Lp and A. genic for example) because i like the way they attack the water while filling. I admit that im selfish, and i offer them dishes strictly for personal entertainment


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## rasulsimakshah (Feb 7, 2013)

hey gray, just hoping your female's doing well!

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## grayzone (Feb 7, 2013)

last i checked (like 2 days ago) she was! I even caught her sort of pushing her sack around a bit. 
She was still clutched onto the thing so that gives me hope.

I honestly am not trying to even think about it bro.. Thats when the "what ifs" follow and i get fixated lol. 
I will be pulling it on the 28th and hoping for the best. I may even try to take a vid seeing how this girl isnt as scary as the last one


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## grayzone (Feb 12, 2013)

@kyahalhai
just as an update the girl is still clutching tightly.
I added more water yesterday (via eyedropper and vent holes) and all looked well/like it has been so far.


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## LadySharon (Feb 28, 2013)

I realized - today's the 28th.....

.... and no update....

Did you pull the sack?

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## rasulsimakshah (Mar 1, 2013)

LadySharon said:


> I realized - today's the 28th.....
> 
> .... and no update....
> 
> Did you pull the sack?


last i heard from gray, he'd just gotten off work an hour or so ago. i'm anxiously waiting on news too!


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## grayzone (Mar 1, 2013)

*3rd time is the charm*

K so i got home from a crazy long day and rushed to get to home then to my old house to pull the sack.

Im very pleased with what im seeing:biggrin:  Looks like i got it right with this eggsack. Makes up for the two that went badly.













Prior to pulling the sack, i instantly noticed her enclosure had gone through some changes. The web tube had turned into a fully enclosed web ball and it appears she had rolled the sack a lot tighter?
It looked a lot smaller and neatly wrapped rather than like a cotton ball.

This by far was the easiest sack to pull, as well as to open. 
Not a single egg.. not a single dud.. all looked perfect. I am very pleased with the mom, and im very glad i waited a full 30 (possibly 31) days

There are still a couple ewls ( i think) but they all are mostly 1i. A couple are molting to 1i as I type.

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## rasulsimakshah (Mar 1, 2013)

slings look great! hopefully things continue to go this great for them and your future breeding projects! thanks for letting me tag along on this one. :biggrin:

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## grayzone (Mar 1, 2013)

Im not sure of exact numbers yet. Honestly im too tired to count.  Definitely not a LOT, but im happy with the outcome for now.

they are all still in the single incubator at my old house.




I have them all in a tall deli suspended hammock style. The filter is secured by a rubberband, and is topped with a lid that has 2 (roughly 1/16th or 1/8th ) holes punched in it.
There is about 2-3" of water in the deli with a single hole (of the same size) punched right above the water line.


They are being heated by a heat lamp about 6" away from the incubator. I placed the incubator in the exact spot the moms enclosure was to replicate her home. If you look carefully you will see the moms enclosure right behind the incubator

I am a bit concerned about incubating as i know people tend to place them directly on wet coco fiber at 1i.
I will likely be doing so tomorrow or saturday when the remaining few ewls molt to 1i also.

Do any experienced breeders see a threat/problem with this current temporary setup?

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## grayzone (Mar 1, 2013)

no problem bro. 
Hope all these guys hit 2i.

Thank YOU for helping make it possible. I will keep you updated with any thing thats going on, and hopefully i can get your share to you soon enough


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## rob0t (Mar 1, 2013)

Looks good man congrats!

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## LadySharon (Mar 1, 2013)

Congrats!!!

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## Osmo (Mar 1, 2013)

I want a few of those slings


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## grayzone (Mar 1, 2013)

they still got a ways to go before i get my hopes up on dispersing them haha

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## Osmo (Mar 1, 2013)

haha i meant when they are ready


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## catfishrod69 (Mar 1, 2013)

Very awesome bro! You diserve this one to work out for you, and i hope every single one of them make it to a buyers/traders hands. 

Honestly, the heat lamp would scare me. It might not at all create a problem. But ive never used one like that. I have however used them for lizards, chickens, etc., and know that they can bake, boil, dry out stuff fast. So keep a major eye on it. And yeah, the moist coco fiber would be the best bet when they are ewls and up. That way they can hydrate, and molt successfully (Thanks Brett!).

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## Damzlfly (Mar 1, 2013)

Sorry - I dont mean to hijack, but I have a dumb question here.  What is an EWL? And how do you tell the instars?


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## catfishrod69 (Mar 1, 2013)

EWL= egg/s with legs. Instars are easy to tell, if you are the one that hatched them. After ewl, will be 1st instar and so on. At 1st instar they will look more tarantula like, but still not quite. When they hit 2nd instar, they look alot more like a tarantula, and are ready to spererate/eat/be sold. 





Damzlfly said:


> Sorry - I dont mean to hijack, but I have a dumb question here.  What is an EWL? And how do you tell the instars?


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## Damzlfly (Mar 1, 2013)

Thank you! 

Greyzone, can't wait to see more pics of your babies! Avics are my favourite


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## brotony101 (Mar 1, 2013)

Congrats! I might be interested in a couple if you still have them when the weather warms up.


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## grayzone (Mar 1, 2013)

catfishrod69 said:


> Very awesome bro! You diserve this one to work out for you, and i hope every single one of them make it to a buyers/traders hands.
> 
> Honestly, the heat lamp would scare me. It might not at all create a problem. But ive never used one like that. I have however used them for lizards, chickens, etc., and know that they can bake, boil, dry out stuff fast. So keep a major eye on it. And yeah, the moist coco fiber would be the best bet when they are ewls and up. That way they can hydrate, and molt successfully (Thanks Brett!).


yeah i will be keeping an eye for the heat. It honestly doesnt get too hot unless its directly over or on an enclosure. At 6" or so away it is the same heat that has got them to where theyre at (size/age wise) currently. 

They are still doing fine today and i will likely be placing them on moist substrate tomorrow or sunday. 
I would like them to have moving room as well. 
I was super delicate in getting them from the sack to the filter last night. I basically just let them spill out on top of eachother gently. I dont want them to be piled up on eachother out of fear of some being smothered? I dont know if that could even happen (seeing how they all smother in a sack) but the fear is still there.


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## catfishrod69 (Mar 1, 2013)

OK man that sounds good. Just remember to be careful with it. 

Glad they are doing good. Honestly, i switch over to moist coco fiber once they molt to 1st instar. I usually keep them on coffee filters until then. When i transfer from sac to incubator, i lay the sac on a coffee filter, and then lay that on a dinner plate. Then i use a plastic measuring spoon thats called a Smidgen (1/32 tsp). I just gently scoop them one by one, sometimes two. I keep track of them with tally marks. I really doubt they could be smothered. I mean heck in the sac who knows how cramped they really are. I worry more about the ewls sticking together, or one of thier biters pointing at another one lol. But they do fine, just leave em be, and make sure the moisture stays up. Good luck bro!





grayzone said:


> yeah i will be keeping an eye for the heat. It honestly doesnt get too hot unless its directly over or on an enclosure. At 6" or so away it is the same heat that has got them to where theyre at (size/age wise) currently.
> 
> They are still doing fine today and i will likely be placing them on moist substrate tomorrow or sunday.
> I would like them to have moving room as well.
> I was super delicate in getting them from the sack to the filter last night. I basically just let them spill out on top of eachother gently. I dont want them to be piled up on eachother out of fear of some being smothered? I dont know if that could even happen (seeing how they all smother in a sack) but the fear is still there.

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## grayzone (Mar 1, 2013)

haha. 
HONESTLY, im not sure if there were any ewls in there or not. I was so tired and so excited i just rushed through it all so i could get back home and rest.

All i saw was lots of legs wiggling, some book lungs, and some still mid molt or just about out.
I will definitely get them switched over tomorrow and i will be trying to get a number.

As a side question, would it be a bad idea to separate them NOW? Just get them all into their own little condiment cup with moist sub? 
It would likely take a little bit of time, but i dont mind. Better to separate them now then when theyre up and running Id imagine. Plus it could keep cannibalization down, and if any die it wouldnt be a problem for the rest of the group. 

Seeing how i cant watch over them every day a dead 1i could go undetected and spreading germs to the rest?


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## LadySharon (Mar 1, 2013)

Is there anyway you could move them to your new house?  

I'm waiting on a count.


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## grayzone (Mar 1, 2013)

i suppose i could. Especially after they are taken out of the incubator. I just think things are going better with these slings than with my previous attempts because im not around to interfere as often haha.


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## rasulsimakshah (Mar 1, 2013)

hahaha still seems like you're doing a good job, 'interference' or not!

+1 to LadySharon, can't wait to hear the count. ^_^


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## grayzone (Mar 1, 2013)

Ill do my best to get an accurate one tomorrow bro. Im interested too.

Aside to see what we could both potentially end up with, Id like a solid number for my final count to compare them at 2i.
Im really hoping to experience no casualties. Everything so far has been working so perfectly. 

Seeing how this is my first "good" sack (meaning something other than eggs that spoil) i am super excited. Probably more than i should be haha.


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## rasulsimakshah (Mar 1, 2013)

hahah no rush! i am super excited too man, haha, nothing wrong with it.


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## LadySharon (Mar 2, 2013)

Well I've never bred/had a T lay a sack before so I'm sponging off your excitement. :biggrin:

I snipped one of your pictures and counted what I could by blue doting the abdomens - and I got 60... but I can tell that they are piled on eachother.


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## grayzone (Mar 2, 2013)

yeah, its hard to count for sure due to that piling. Between that, all the tiny exuviae and the legs wiggling it was hard to tell.
I had to have my cousin help me with the process because i was so excited and tired. I will be going there @ some point today or tonight and attempting to find out for sure


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## catfishrod69 (Mar 2, 2013)

You could actually seperate them now into individual portion cups. I have done this a few times. It makes it alot easier. Because once they are 1st and 2nd instar, they wont cooperate at all. But when they are ewls they cant do anything.

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## grayzone (Mar 2, 2013)

now THAT sounds like good news. I was kind of wondering about that.
I remember on a FEW occasions members who accidentally got shipped some 1i slings. They all hit 2i in the members care.

I will hit a local store to find upwards of 100 or so condiment cups for cheap. I will allow one or two airholes in each cup, and about a spoonfull of dampened coco in each as well.

great way to separate early AND get a count. Id imagine it easier to get them in straws for packaging when theyre separate as well.


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## catfishrod69 (Mar 2, 2013)

Ive had several 1st instar shipped to me. Actually 1st instar in shipping do just fine. But i dont ship them, because it could possibly be risky, and its frowned upon. I always order Dart 1oz portion cups from ebay. I order like 300 with lids for about $15-20. I take and put moist coco fiber in each one, line the bottom of a large sterilite with moist paper towels, and stack them in there. Kinda like a incubator inside a incubator. Yeah be sure to place some air holes on the cups. I use a tiny needle, and make about 12 holes around the lid. Be sure to put the holes where they wont be blocked off by the next cup ontop of it.

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## grayzone (Mar 3, 2013)

well.. i was panicked, relieved, and amazed in a single second tonight.

I went to my cousins and walked into my old T room and gazed at the deli all the slings were in. 
For a brief moment i thought "Oh no, theyre all dead". Everything was so still and calm. 

Then came the Led flashlight. The instant the light shined on them i saw 752 legs wiggling at me in unison. Was amazing to see how they seemed to move together.

 it took a long time to get 1oz condiment cups "sling ready" but I had help from my cousins husband, who is a member here ( thanks blakktalon) so it only took about 1.5 hrs.
All in all there were 94 1i slings that were separated. There were 3 of the 1i slings that were actually in the middle of eating another sackmate while i was separating them. 
Im sure there was more cannibalization that i didnt witness, as some of the slings are VERY plump compared to the others already.

when done separating them, i then placed the condiment cups inside of 3 different rubbermaid bins that were lined with moistened papertowels (thanks for the advice John) to ensure humidity and hydration is good.

Is it normal for 1i slings to not be moving around that much? I was expecting them to be scattering away from me,  but none of them moved anything other than their legs. Is it safe to assume only 2i and up slings actually move?


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## catfishrod69 (Mar 3, 2013)

Yeah getting those cups ready takes a while lol. We punched holes in over 400 of them, then rehoused slings into about 372 of them lol. Now that took a while. And ive got vials coming in, and will need to punch holes in about 600 of them. 

If you had kept the slings in the incubator, once they hit 2nd instar, they would have started all running in unison. They will all stop at once, then one will start to run, and the rest follow suit. Your welcome bro!

I think the Avic slings dont move around as much as some other Genra. My 1st instar C. darlingi and C. marshalli were running little squirts. 





grayzone said:


> well.. i was panicked, relieved, and amazed in a single second tonight.
> 
> I went to my cousins and walked into my old T room and gazed at the deli all the slings were in.
> For a brief moment i thought "Oh no, theyre all dead". Everything was so still and calm.
> ...


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## grayzone (Mar 3, 2013)

yeah, theyre mostly stationary. Some laid on their backs, some lay on their bellies. They all got a bit livlier when the touched the moist cocofiber though. I saw them wiggling their legs. 

i plan to check in on them in a few days to see how theyre doing, but honestly i dont think i have to.
Them being on wet fiber ..individualized.. inside of tupperware lined with wet papertowels means they have all the humidity they need. 
im hoping that in a few weeks they start to darken


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## rasulsimakshah (Mar 3, 2013)

just out of curiosity, do you feed the 1i slings anything? i've always wondered how long it takes for them to need their own food.


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## catfishrod69 (Mar 3, 2013)

They should all molt out without any losses. I really hope so man. 





grayzone said:


> yeah, theyre mostly stationary. Some laid on their backs, some lay on their bellies. They all got a bit livlier when the touched the moist cocofiber though. I saw them wiggling their legs.
> 
> i plan to check in on them in a few days to see how theyre doing, but honestly i dont think i have to.
> Them being on wet fiber ..individualized.. inside of tupperware lined with wet papertowels means they have all the humidity they need.
> im hoping that in a few weeks they start to darken




---------- Post added 03-03-2013 at 12:54 PM ----------

Usually wait until 2nd instar to begin feeding. But ewls, and 1st instar will sometimes cannibalize. 





kyahalhai21311 said:


> just out of curiosity, do you feed the 1i slings anything? i've always wondered how long it takes for them to need their own food.

Reactions: Like 1


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## LadySharon (Mar 3, 2013)

congrats again.   I know if it was me.. no way could I let them go a few days without checking.  I'd probably do spot checks every day. :lol  (that is open 2-5 and check that I did the incubation is right)  

That and I live in Colorado and it's really dry here.  I've lost some slings because I moved my collection into a much warmer room and I didn't realize how fast the soil in little deli cups would dry out... (at least I'm assuming that's what happeend... finding a molt and a dead sling at the same time is no fun.)  So I give them water more often now.


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## Storm76 (Mar 4, 2013)

Congrats, bro!

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## grayzone (Mar 10, 2013)

as an update, tonight is the first time ive seen the 1i slings since sunday or monday.
My girl and i went through all 94 condiment cups and remoistened all the ts substrate. I also changed out the papertowels in each bin that is full of cups/enclosures.

I DID notice a tiny bit of mold here and there for some strange reason (nice and green not the typical white mold i see in enclosures at times) so i changed the substrate in the few cups that had it. That is also the reason i changed out the towels.

Anyways, out of the 94 slings there are no casualties as of yet. I noticed 4 that arent looking that hot, and are barely responsive but im hoping that changes with the freshly saturated cups. 
out of the 4 weak/seemingly dying slings, 3 of them are tiny runts. 1 of them is one of the larger beastlier sized 1i avics (some of these are a LOT larger than the others.. nearly double in size in some cases)

I plan to go back on  Wednesday or so to check in again.


I have my cousin rotating the larger bins/incubators daily to ensure the heat lamp isnt predominantly hitting one side only. Other than that theyve been getting no interaction.

Also, i noticed they are a good amount darker than they were a week ago, but that could just be due to them not being freshly hatched 1i.
Instead of clearish see through white they are now a dingy yellow. Some have a brownish carapace.

I cant wait till they start hitting 2i.  
i know this is subjective, and depends on a few different key things,  but how long does that typically take?


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## grayzone (Mar 21, 2013)

just went to do some maintenance on the slings today. Have not been there since last Thursday.

these guys are becoming a LOT more active (some are crawling now, opposed to just laying and wiggling) and are darkening up nicely. 

I counted 14 losses today, and believe i know what happened to most of them. 10 of the 14 were in the same rubbermaid. The rubbermaid itself only had a few ventilation holes, so im under the impression that humidity and stagnant air is the issue.
All 10 slings out of that container (along with 4 from misc. rubbermaids) were moldy and dead.


Also, since the beginning there has been 7 of the 94 housed individually in condiment cups that WERE NOT placed in an incubator at all. They are all thriving and very good looking. 
I decided to take the moist paper towels out of every rubbermaid the cups are inside of, and also to leave the lids off of the rubbermaids. 

I will be checking in again in a few days and updating. 
These should be hitting 2i very soon .. anybody want to take guesses?


all the slings look like these guys (sizes and shades vary a bit naturally..)
	

		
			
		

		
	







and the dead guys for good measure

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## catfishrod69 (Mar 21, 2013)

Dang bro, that sucks that some of them died off. The good looking ones are not dark enough yet, so no molting just yet. Take a look at the versi in my pairing thread, they will get jet black. These ones got blacker than any other slings i can remember. Shouldnt be much longer though.


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## grayzone (Mar 21, 2013)

yeah, im thinking they will be nice and dark, or maybe even molting by NEXT weekend.  I am definitely going to start checking in on them more than 1x weekly though. I expected some losses, but did not forsee that^ above.  I believe i have the problem all situated though, and am hoping to experience few to no more casualties


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## catfishrod69 (Mar 21, 2013)

Glad you think you have it figured out man. Yeah 1 time a week isnt good. Never know what will happen day to day. I check mine every day. If the moisture looks a little low, i add to it.


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## grayzone (Mar 30, 2013)

as an update i havent checked in on these guys since Monday.
Today i went and checked in on them and discovered 9 more have died, and one is really stiff with its legs outstretched, but still responsive.

all 71 remaining slings basically look like this currently




I was really expecting to find some 2i (its been really warm here the past few days) but i guess i have to be patient!


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## catfishrod69 (Mar 30, 2013)

Sorry to hear this bro. I wish we could figure out what the heck is up with Avics doing this. The versicolor sac I have now, I am going to let her hatch it to see how it goes. 4 of my versi made it to 2nd instar and are eating right now.


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## rasulsimakshah (Mar 30, 2013)

damn man, hate to hear of more dying. but it happens a lot...i've had multiple 2i/3i avics die without warning on me. :-/ hopefully the majority of the 71 will make it to 2i soon.

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## grayzone (Mar 30, 2013)

these guys are getting darker by the day man. Only a few are lighter than the one pictured. 
I posted this pic as a size reference as well... some are about half that size, while others are slightly larger. I cant believe there could be such a difference in size at 1i

all the remaining slings appear very lively and active/strong so hopefully we win the race against time. Id like to believe that once they hit 2i they will be a lot stronger/a lot less fragile

---------- Post added 03-30-2013 at 07:25 PM ----------

maybe after this fresh round of misting, and the 70+ degree weather were already getting here in WA, these guys will be reaching 2i this week?  
Im no expert, but i cant imagine them getting any blacker

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## grayzone (Apr 6, 2013)

just got word that these guys are molting. Some are already 2i. I will be going to check on them tomorrow and observe the progress and see how many have done the deed!


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## rasulsimakshah (Apr 6, 2013)

aww yeahhh sweet man! hopefully we haven't lost too many since last check up. can't wait to hear about it!


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## grayzone (Apr 6, 2013)

i hope not bro. Since my last update i have stopped by once briefly. I did not go through ALL of them, but didnt notice any dead (off of what i peeked in on)

When i went through them all one by one (on the 30th) the ones alive still seemed very strong. I will definitely be gettin at ya tomorrow!


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## grayzone (Apr 8, 2013)

Ok, so as an update the whole "molt thing" was a false alarm. My cousin was thinking they molted because they were on their backs and wiggling.. not to mention a different color.

What i found was a good amount of slings lookin like this


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## grayzone (Apr 8, 2013)

i would imagine molts are coming any day now


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## toast4nat (Apr 8, 2013)

I love this! Very cool, I want one


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## catfishrod69 (Apr 9, 2013)

Hopefully they make it through man. Some of those versi I hatched also darkened up, but never did anything else. Best of luck!

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## grayzone (Apr 11, 2013)

TA DA!



These guys decided to start molting for me as a birthday present haha. I am rushing over tomorrow after work for a count on whose all at what stage!

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## catfishrod69 (Apr 12, 2013)

That's awesome man! Hopefully a good number of them make it.

Reactions: Like 1


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## LadySharon (Apr 12, 2013)

I've been watching this thread and I still missed this post last night.

Happy birthday!  (well a day late...)

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## web eviction (Apr 12, 2013)

Good stuff man! Looks like your getting it figured out

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## grayzone (Apr 12, 2013)

yeah, think ive gotten most of the kinks worked out! All its taking is experience/trial and error! Im still not sure if some of the losses ive been experiencing with this sack is due to anything ive done/am doing, or if it was just meant to be.
Hopefully from here on out things continue to go smoothly with this sack. I have a couple other projects starting this weekend, PLUS a few others in the very near future.


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## grayzone (Apr 14, 2013)

*Out For A Stroll*





So far 9 of these lil guys have molted. 

A good amount are still either oily black (as previously shown) or a bit lighter (almost blue looking)
and suprisingly a lot are still very white/creamy like they need a lot more time.
strange that individualism is already noticably apparent.
Also, some of the 2i slings are like 3/8" while others are like 3/4


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## rasulsimakshah (Apr 14, 2013)

haha they're looking great man!

Reactions: Like 1


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## grayzone (Apr 14, 2013)

Ive had lots of avic slings, but NONE of them are as cool as these:biggrin: 

Seriously, i was super excited to see these and interact with them. Being that this is my first successful sack, it was an awesome experience to play with slings that I helped produce. I will definitely be keeping a few of these around to raise up! Probably even give them names


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## rasulsimakshah (Apr 14, 2013)

hahaha same for me! i completely understand.


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## pannaking22 (Apr 29, 2013)

So glad everything is working out for you grayzone!  These little guys are awesome!

Reactions: Like 1


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