# T. Apophysis (round 2)



## Greg Wolfe (Oct 11, 2005)

Took this photo today of my monster apophysis. She shed last month and scarfed down 11 superworms last Sunday so she is fattened up some.
David Richards (Knoxville Zoo) has been patient with me as I have his stud muffin male here. Round 2 this weekend David!! Then he's off to you!


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## aaronrefalo (Oct 11, 2005)

had you mated her yet then?

and bdw whats the size of that monster?

Aaron


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## BEN-V (Oct 11, 2005)

The Theraphosa on this picture is definitly not an apophysis... It' s a T. blondi. I' ve been keeping and breeding the two species for several years.


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## Arachnoking (Oct 12, 2005)

I could be and probably am totaly wrong about this so please dont take offence but compared to my female T.apophysis that does look very heavy bodied in comparison therefore pointing towards T.blondi. Please can someone correct me if im wrong in saying that


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## Greg Wolfe (Oct 12, 2005)

*Apophysis/Blondi*

Sorry to burst your bubble but this one is T. Apophysis. If she was a blondi then her boyfriend would have been consumed long ago.
To the untrained eye these two can appear similar.


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## Arachnoking (Oct 12, 2005)

I didnt say she wasnt T.apophysis ;P  but have u ever heard of spiders of different species within the same Genus hybridizing? for example Brachypelma vagans x Brachypelma albopilosum? the males have survived too.

Nice spider all the same :clap:

T.apophysis and T.blondi look totaly different


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## Arachnoking (Oct 12, 2005)

Ii seriously doubt that is T.apophysis.

these pics say it all. There is a huge difference


Theraphosa apophysis


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## Arachnoking (Oct 12, 2005)

Theraphosa blondi


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## king7 (Oct 12, 2005)

my first thought was it looks just like my blondi.


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## David Richards (Oct 12, 2005)

*OK,  what is this,  goliath or blondi*

I would be interested in what everyone that has posted so far thinks this is just out of curiousity.  dave  

ps,  i will tell you its identity later


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## Arachnoking (Oct 13, 2005)

Looks very much like Theraphosa blondi to me. its certainly not T.apophysis.

 I keep both species but hey,what do i know ???????? :?


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## Steve Nunn (Oct 13, 2005)

Hi Greg,
Nice spider, which I believe could certainly be _T.apophysis_, a very large one, and secondly I'm lost as to how someone could write that species off opposed to _T.blondi_???  Particularly if you other guys are keeping them, you should know the only difference you *might* pick up from a photo is that _T.apophysis_ are a little leggier, more obvious in younger specimens. Size is probably irrelevant otherwise, _T.apophysis_ most likely get larger overall then _T.blondi_. Wild observations seem to confirm this (just ask the guys who spend time in their natural habitat )

So, I'm still left wondering, how do you guys differentiate the two??? Because to my untrained eye, this could and probably is _T.apophysis_,particularly if breeding is going off without a hitch, considering one species has tibial spurs, the other does not??? This I would imagine could be a big problem should the species get mixed up???

Hmmm,
Steve


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## FryLock (Oct 13, 2005)

I can answer and give positive id's on all these spider's Steve , il just need to able to see there spermathecae ah oh yes have all the moult to check the leg measurements and relation factors (femur width is very important with these two so the T.apophysis paper says) .




Oh and can i have there brother's while im on .


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## BEN-V (Oct 13, 2005)

Steve Nunn said:
			
		

> you should know the only difference you *might* pick up from a photo is that _T.apophysis_ are a little leggier, more obvious in younger specimens. Size is probably irrelevant otherwise, _T.apophysis_ most likely get larger overall then _T.blondi_. Wild observations seem to confirm this (just ask the guys who spend time in their natural habitat )
> 
> So, I'm still left wondering, how do you guys differentiate the two???


I' ve been keeping and breeding the two species for several years, Steve. When you have seen lot of apophysis, they don' t look like blondi. Ultimate male and spiderling are very easy to differentiata. But female are so with a little practice.

- femurs are very different, particulary in legs 1 & 2
- prosoma is very more roundness in T. blondi
- Big specimens T. blondi have some pink streacks on the patella. These streaks are brown in T. apophysis
- hairs : they are slightly curly in T. blondi

Here is a picture :



BEN


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## Anthony (Oct 13, 2005)

That is a excellent and informative photo comparison. Thank you


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## metallica (Oct 13, 2005)

more info >>>here<<<


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## FryLock (Oct 13, 2005)

metallica said:
			
		

> more info >>>here<<<


Your to fast for me Eddy (Motorhead jk there  ), the paper at GEA looks like it is gone sadly.

Small difference only a mm or two on femur width which we can see in Ben's pic's, but im still not 100% how easy that is judge without them side by side and both of same leg span? is that consent in all specimens? and at all age’s? (eh Steve  ).


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## Steve Nunn (Oct 13, 2005)

Hello Ben,
Thankyou for posting comparison of same sized specimens. I understand what you are saying, but I'm still curious as to how you rule this spider out?? It seems to have the thick legs, yes, it seems to have a rounded carapace, but do you understand ontogeny?? (there it is again Bill, familiar word) Have you seen old females of this species?? You are aware that the carapace broadens (along with leg width) in older specimens and how can you accurately age this spider?? I know and understand similar sized spiders of each species may be easier to define, as you showed, but there is no comparison here for you to refer to, other then what you know of the variation in older specimens. You said you have kept both species, how many adult female _T.apophysis_ do you have?? Of those, how many exceed the size of your _T.blondi_?? 

Your points are applicable, don't get me wrong and I certainly don't mean any offense, (Tinter also pointed out leg variation, no?) but any guess based on images like this are totally unsupported IMO. Without viewing rellevant characters that are more stable in older specimens (IMO leg length/width and carapace measurements are not), one could easily argue that to say "without a doubt" or any other hard line approach may be a little presumptive.

Just my opinion 
Steve


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## arachnoking1234 (Oct 13, 2005)

Greg Wolfe said:
			
		

> Sorry to burst your bubble but this one is T. Apophysis. If she was a blondi then her boyfriend would have been consumed long ago.
> To the untrained eye these two can appear similar.


lets set them strait dude it have pink feet when you got it


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## AfterTheAsylum (Oct 13, 2005)

Greg Wolfe said:
			
		

> Sorry to burst your bubble but this one is T. Apophysis. If she was a blondi then her boyfriend would have been consumed long ago.
> To the untrained eye these two can appear similar.


That is very untrue.  They can still hybridize.  And anyone here who thinks they can tell the difference between the two sheerly by looking at a picture is overconfident and is jumping the gun.  By the way, that male T. apophysis - isn't that Todd's?

D


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## BEN-V (Oct 13, 2005)

Steve, i' ve got 3 adult females of Theraphosa apophysis, only one very big in leg span that i' ve bred recently : 24cm of leg span, 1cm more than my biggest T. blondi which already is a very big spider (10.5cm of BL, 23cm of LS).

Here are some pics of my T.blondi and my T. apophysis :

T. blondi female + mating :





T. apophysis females :





T. apophysis subadult male :



T. apophysis ultimate male :







T. apophysis mating :





more here : http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=52970

T. apophysis spiderlings and juvenile female :





I understand you are sceptic about me being so positiv for identify a spider with a single picture but i' ve seen so much apophysis (I personnaly know one of the first persons who brang this species back from Venezuela, Mr Balliet - by the way, most of wild caught specimens of this species comes from Surinam, not Venezuela) that this is easy for me now. Remember when you saw tarantulas for the very first time of your life : many species looks like each others at the beginning, but when you finally saw a lot of tarantulas, they look now very different to you.

BEN

PS : Sorry about my so bad english...

PS 2 : Don' t have to see a lot of ultimate males for understanding why they call T. apophysis the Goliath Pink Foot...


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## David Richards (Oct 13, 2005)

*Soulsick*

To answer your question: "By the way, that male T. apophysis - isn't that Todd's?"  (sorry for the poor quoting skills  )
  It belongs to me.  I traded Todd another spider as well as a percent of the potential Apophysis offspring for the male T. Apophysis.   dave


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## danielr6543 (Oct 13, 2005)

I can't help but notice you are all saying it isnt T. apophysis just by looking at a  picture. Hasn't it been said time and time again it is nearly impossible to identify a tarantula from a photo. There just isnt enough information you can get from a photograph to properly identify a tarantula. Unless of course your photographing specific features that one species has and the other doesn't. Even then this still wouldn't help you identify someones tarantula from their picture that they posted. Just my 2 cents.


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## Beardo (Oct 13, 2005)

Ben...those apophysis are simply amazing! I had no idea they were so colorful.


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## 8 leg wonder (Oct 13, 2005)

Soulsick said:
			
		

> That is very untrue.  They can still hybridize.  And anyone here who thinks they can tell the difference between the two sheerly by looking at a picture is overconfident and is jumping the gun.  By the way, that male T. apophysis - isn't that Todd's?
> 
> D


I agree there are some hybrids of these sp floating around Canada right now


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## Andrew vV (Oct 13, 2005)

Keeping both species myself, I will also agree that my *impression* of that picture is that it is T. blondi....My Female T. apophysis I raised from 3-4", and I would estimate her age somewhere between 10-11 years. (10 years by me)

I know there are more than a few misidentified T. apophysis floating around the trade, as I bought one!  I was skeptical upon recieving him(as he looked nothing like my female did at 6") sure enough, my fears were confirmed when he matured  
You can want them to be a T.apophysis so bad that they are....even when they're not  

The pics arent great, but I got a couple clouds of Theraphosa hairs(from both species) that I'll have to live with for the next week getting the shots, so enjoy anyways  

1 young female T. blondi
2/3 Female T. apophysis


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## shogun804 (Oct 13, 2005)

anyone trying to id this spider from a photo is a.........well im gonna leave that blank you feel it in  !! that is one hell of T  apophysis Greg.  good luck with breeding that giant.


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## Greg Wolfe (Oct 16, 2005)

Today was the day! T. Apophysis round 2. This was a 40 minute session. Intense with 4 good inserts. Here are some shots! Enjoy!


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## Greg Wolfe (Oct 16, 2005)

*more photos*

For some reason some of these photos didn't load. Hang on...


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## Zorack (Oct 16, 2005)

that kindia looks like a blondi to me  :?, but the male doesent look like a blondi male, strange


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## David Richards (Oct 16, 2005)

*Way to go Greg!*

:clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:  Congrats again!  Great pics.  Hope she goes the distance with them.  Dave


Since Greg hasn't said so, the female isn't a blondi.  She was captive bred and had Pink Feet when he got her.  Now that that is said, what do people say about it being a blondi.  Especially those who were so sure that it was based on the pics????   later dave


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## king7 (Oct 17, 2005)

im not saying it is a blondi but i read in another post that only blondis have the red/pink on the knees and the Apophysis have brown.the female does look exactly like my female blondi,could this mean i have an Apophysis and not a blondi?


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## David Richards (Oct 17, 2005)

I would think the only sure way to know the identity of an apophysis for the "average T owner" would be knowing for sure if it had the pink feet as a sling.  Anything else is just a guess in my opinion.  Not to say that someone out there can't ID one from a molt.  But it would seem that the photo ID has been proven impossible?? anyone disagree????   dave


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## stewartb (Oct 17, 2005)

Hello, 

Did the female make use of the males tibial apophysis?  By locking the points of her fangs into them??

Regards,

Stew.


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## David Richards (Oct 17, 2005)

*Arachnoking1234*

Yes, it had pink feet.


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## king7 (Oct 17, 2005)

so the other post read about only the blondi has the pink/red bits is untrue?


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## Greg Wolfe (Oct 17, 2005)

*Apophysis/Blondi*

I can understand why she appears as a blondi, as my camera flash lightens her hue. I can see that. But, she is pure apophysis. She is much darker in person. I bought her from Darwin Sinram many years ago as a sling. She did have pink booties on. 
If I put a male blondi in there my girl would have nailed him instantly. I suppose it is possible to cross breed these two, but I would rather not mix up the gene pool at this time.
I have been waiting to breed this monster species for quite a while, and with thanks to David Richards we have accomplished the task at hand.
Four inserts with the last two actually lifting her up, good and hard. POP!!
They danced around quite a bit, carressing each other. She was very receptive, drumming her front two legs in anticipation. 
This 40 minute session was intense. David's male performed flawlessly and he is enroute to the Knoxville Zoo as I type for other endeavors.
Now... I must wait.  :wall: for an eggsac. Hey Dave! Your stud muffin kept tapping after I put him in his container for 15 minutes! He's ready to go!!
Greg


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## David Richards (Oct 17, 2005)

*King7*

I am not saying it isn't true, but the picture sure is.  There may be something to that theory but it isn't the case with Gregs female or my own T's.  I just don't see it being an across the board identifying trait for the simple reason that Greg's was in fact proven to be an apophysis.  I like to go on proven facts rather than opinions for the obvious reason that everyone has one if you know what i mean.  I am not claiming to know all that much about T's(lets make that clear)  But this answer has more to do with the FACT that  slings with pink feet don't grow up to be T. blondi.  That is my only point.  dave


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## eman (Oct 17, 2005)

Greg Wolfe said:
			
		

> I can understand why she appears as a blondi, as my camera flash lightens her hue. I can see that. But, she is pure apophysis. She is much darker in person. I bought her from Darwin Sinram many years ago as a sling. She did have pink booties on.
> If I put a male blondi in there my girl would have nailed him instantly. I suppose it is possible to cross breed these two, but I would rather not mix up the gene pool at this time.
> I have been waiting to breed this monster species for quite a while, and with thanks to David Richards we have accomplished the task at hand.
> Four inserts with the last two actually lifting her up, good and hard. POP!!
> ...


TO: Greg and David

The following are simply my opinions. They may not be entirely accurate (my 10 years of experience do not make me an expert by any means): 

1) Comparing different species of ts from pictures, _is_ reasonably possible - although not necessarily 100% accurate.  Personally, I don't have a problem comparing _most_ species by photo.  More importantly, EVERY single picture I have seen of real (proven) apophysis, has been distinctly different from blondi - and actually match BEN-V and Andrew vV's pictures... I don't understand what the confusion is???   :? 

2) Simply stating that your t "had pink feet" as a definite species descriptor, is at best, inaccurate.  I currently have blondi slings with very prominent "pink gloves" (3 or 4th instar). The mother of these was IDed as blondi by Rick West (shedding).  Moreover, she definitely LOOKS blondi!  A response from Rick on the male's ID is also soon to come (but he didn't have tibial spurs so I don't think he'll have much trouble figuring that one out). The point is that there are very distinctive features that make apophysis slings stand out... including color, hairs, etc. - not just "pink feet".

3) Stating that the mating was successful and went along without a hitch means absolutely nothing, unfortunately.  How many cases of hybrids do we have on the pet trade today?  B. pallidum with B. vagans, B. emilia with B. bhoemi, P. irminia with P. cambreidgi, to name a few...    Mating behaviour and response, although important, is but one of the many determining factors in proper species identification.

4) The most obvious point here is that there IS a distinctive difference in both blondi and apophysis!  Those who don't see it, simply haven't kept many specimens of real apophysis for valid comparison - as previously mentioned by BEN-V on this thread. 

5) Lastly and perhaps most importantly - failure to at least admit to the possibility of being mistaken (in terms of having the wrong species), says alot about someone...  I"ll let you draw your own conclusions.

Having said this, I understand your enthusiasm and eagerness to breed the species (I share the same passion).  However, I do suggest that you properly and positively identify that nice big female of yours in order to make sure you are in fact dealing with the right species, namely apohysis.  This only seems like the responsible thing to do.   

Those are my two cents.  

Eman


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## David Richards (Oct 17, 2005)

Just for the record, of course it is possible that I am wrong with my assumptions and or opinions.  I should have made that clear in my posts.  It is frustrating to see people that think they are THE AUTHORITY on anything.  If that is what anyone took from my post, It was not my intention.  I was simply stating that the pink boots(easiest to see) charateristic is an easy identifier most of the time.  I have seen enough of each to say the slings look very different (in my opinion of course).  I am always open to other peoples experiece and figured that anyone overseas probably does have significantly more experience with most T's.  To ignore that experience would be ignorant for sure.  Hope that clears up what I was saying.  That is the great thing about this board, the less experienced(myself included) can learn alot from the wealth of knowlege of others world wide.  I am gratefull for that.  dave


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## stewartb (Oct 17, 2005)

Did the female lock the points of its fangs into the males tibial apophyses when mating??

Regards,

Stew.


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## eman (Oct 17, 2005)

David Richards said:
			
		

> Just for the record, of course it is possible that I am wrong with my assumptions and or opinions.  I should have made that clear in my posts.  It is frustrating to see people that think they are THE AUTHORITY on anything.  If that is what anyone took from my post, It was not my intention.  I was simply stating that the pink boots(easiest to see) charateristic is an easy identifier most of the time.  I have seen enough of each to say the slings look very different (in my opinion of course).  I am always open to other peoples experiece and figured that anyone overseas probably does have significantly more experience with most T's.  To ignore that experience would be ignorant for sure.  Hope that clears up what I was saying.  That is the great thing about this board, the less experienced(myself included) can learn alot from the wealth of knowlege of others world wide.  I am gratefull for that.  dave


Thank you for your candid response Dave.  I hope I didn't sound too harsh myself.  

Like you said, it is great to have an open and honest forum, where we can all learn.  

Good luck to you and Greg.

Eman


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## king7 (Oct 17, 2005)

would you say this is a blondi or a Apophysis?


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## FryLock (Oct 17, 2005)

king7 said:
			
		

> would you say this is a blondi or a Apophysis?


Some good ppl on this thread i think they will be able to give you a good idea, meh i would not know.


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## Steve Nunn (Oct 17, 2005)

When you boil this thread down, it amounts to people looking at an image and trying to say, YES, this is this, or this is that, BLAAHHHHHH

Images are a hopeless identification tool and while anyone might try and say, "this is definately", or even, "I think", basically, you're pushing the limits here. Stand up, look at the definitive taxonomic characters for _Theraphosa_ and realise you cannot ID from this image, plain and simple. You can assume, but that is it, to push the argument is naive.

Greg owns the spider, he's had it since it was a juvenile (and yes, while some _T.blondi_ have pink feet as juveniles, it is NO WAY as noticeable as in _T.apophysis_), you missed that part of your information above. I think the ONLY person with a reasonable idea of what this spider is, is Greg, based on the fact he has the animal in his custody and is not viewing an image, like the rest of you are. There are other distinct striations and such seen in the juvies, between the two species, has anyone asked Greag about those for support to their conclusions?? No, they haven't.

This argument has become moot and repetitive.

Unlsess someone stands up with a defintive character that can be seen from an image this is a waste of time, isn't that obvious by now???

My 2 cents,
Steve


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## FryLock (Oct 17, 2005)

Steve Nunn said:
			
		

> this is a waste of time, isn't that obvious by now???


No i have to disagree there Steve i think this threads great  .


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## Steve Nunn (Oct 17, 2005)

FryLock said:
			
		

> No i have to disagree there Steve i think this threads great  .


You would Bill !! LOL The only time I see this thread as "great" is if I'm watching the Bold and Beautiful and need some other similar genre to satisfy 

That spider deserves to be called "Ridge" or "Thorn", something like that  ;P


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## eman (Oct 17, 2005)

Steve Nunn said:
			
		

> When you boil this thread down, it amounts to people looking at an image and trying to say, YES, this is this, or this is that, BLAAHHHHHH
> 
> Images are a hopeless identification tool and while anyone might try and say, "this is definately", or even, "I think", basically, you're pushing the limits here. Stand up, look at the definitive taxonomic characters for _Theraphosa_ and realise you cannot ID from this image, plain and simple. You can assume, but that is it, to push the argument is naive.
> 
> ...


Steve, I agree with you that it's difficult and sometimes impossible to call definitive shots based on pictures alone...  What do you think this is?


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## David Richards (Oct 17, 2005)

*Eman*

I know you are asking steve, but I think i get the point you are about to make.  I would have said that it is an apophysis based on the pic, however, it is most likely one of the T. Blondi slings that you have been refering to. Point well taken, be patient while I eat CROW  .  Hope I don't choke.     dave


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## Steve Nunn (Oct 17, 2005)

eman said:
			
		

> Steve, I agree with you that it's difficult and sometimes impossible to call definitive shots based on pictures alone...  What do you think this is?


Hi,
This is exactly what I'm saying, I couldn't tell you based on the image alone and my inexperience with the genus as live animals.

I would "presume" your image is of a juvenile _T.blondi_, based on the build of the spider, but that is a huge guess and in no way something that should be accepted as truth, it's just a mere guess and not enough in ANY way to form a substantial guess at that. Too many variables, such as the instar no. of the spider/ontogenetic phase, instar phase, clinal variation (the pink feet fall into this category), etc...

Perhpas Greg's spider is a _T.blondi_, perhaps _T.apophysis_. What I can say without doubt is there is not one shred of evidence to support a finding either way!!!

At first glance, I would of thought _T.blondi_, but again, an opinion is just that, an opinion. There is no defintive autapomorphic/diagnostic character that has been mentioned thus far, and the reality is until one is given, then all bets are off for us as viewers 

I've been doing this for many, many years and the one thing I have learned, is that the more I know and presume to know, the more I understand about true species variation and the common missconceptions in the hobby at present. After working with hundreds, sometimes thousands of one individual species, I'm still, to this day, surprised often at clinal and or morphometric variation and how it can throw me for a loop. This same aspect applies to all theraphosids, given the number of wild caught individuals from these species in the hobby, even moreso. Therefore, I've learnt to follow cladistic analysis for support and assistance in finding characters that are stable and can be used for identification.

There is no doubt at all that the most difficult question facing any mygale systematist, is that of the Theraphosidae. They are THE most difficult mygale family to work on, we are still striving to understand the variation in this family and how to work with that variation at an acceptable level.

Hope this helps 
Steve


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## Mr Ed (Oct 17, 2005)

David Richards said:
			
		

> I would be interested in what everyone that has posted so far thinks this is just out of curiousity.  dave
> 
> ps,  i will tell you its identity later



Man, that's a beautiful M. Robustum you have there, I need one of those (actually both sp.)!!!  LOL.


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## eman (Oct 17, 2005)

David Richards said:
			
		

> I know you are asking steve, but I think i get the point you are about to make.  I would have said that it is an apophysis based on the pic, however, it is most likely one of the T. Blondi slings that you have been refering to. Point well taken, be patient while I eat CROW  .  Hope I don't choke.     dave


You are right Dave, it is blondi (well most likely, unless the male comes back from Rick W. as a tibial-less apophysis!).  My friend should be getting a response back sometime soon.

By the way, these slings were actually bred by someone else I know here in Montreal - I just happened to purchase a couple of slings that came from him.  I am looking forward to  purchasing some more from him some time soon, hopefully!   

Again, I don't claim to be the authority here either.  I am constantly upgrading my knowledge base on a near daily basis...  I'm in the same boat you are bro.   

Eman


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## David Richards (Oct 17, 2005)

*Mr. ED*

:?   You lost me.????


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## Mr Ed (Oct 18, 2005)

David Richards said:
			
		

> :?   You lost me.????


Sorry, just thought I'd be facetious and ease some of the tension from the thread (it obviously isn't an M. Robustum, and is obviously SOMETHING in the theraposa class).  Whatever it is and I won't even throw my guess out there it is a nice T.


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## king7 (Oct 18, 2005)

the point i was trying to make was that if my blondi look exaxtly the same as the apophysi at the begining of this thread (which it does) then mine could be an apophysi and not a blondi.if anyone says they look different then they aint lookin at the same pics.


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## Greg Wolfe (Oct 18, 2005)

*T. Apophysis...*

Look people, I am not bi-polar enough to stuff a male apophysis into a female blondi's tank to see what happens. 
I have been doing this for over twenty years, and I should be shot for posting a photo of a blondi and saying, "what a killer apophysis!". Period.
This grand female of mine is an apophysis. She mated with David's male and now we wait for an eggsac. 
I laud the photos that have been posted to diffuse any discrepancy. They are excellent reference points. There is no way in hades I would harbor the thought of posting a photo of a T without knowing what it is and carelessly exclaiming what I assume it is, unless I ask for ID opinions.
I will take photos of her with her brood when the event presents itself.
Greg Wolfe/Indiana Exotics


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## king7 (Oct 18, 2005)

like i said from the start i wasnt saying it was a blondi,just it looked like mine and i was getting worried that i didnt have a blondi.  

so just to clear 1 thing up,only the blondi has the red bits right? :8o


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## stewartb (Oct 19, 2005)

Greg,

Did the female lock the points of its fangs into the male,s tibial apophyses when mating?

Regards,

Stew.


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## FryLock (Oct 19, 2005)

stewartb said:
			
		

> Greg,
> 
> Did the female lock the points of its fangs into the male,s tibial apophyses when mating?
> 
> ...



Mr Backer you as persistent as Jeremy Paxman .


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## hinterwelle (Nov 26, 2008)

A very um, interesting thread to say the least.  Silly boys, can't we all get along?  But yes, this thread died years ago and here I go digging it up. Why? Because I've watched the rest of the movie and now I would like to know the ending.  Did Greg's female produce a viable eggsac? If so, how many slings were produced after such an extravagant breeding?  And also, did this "stud muffin" male go off to breed again or did he not get so lucky?  Come on guys, you left us hangin.

jeremy


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