# Old World T, good beginner?



## port513 (Dec 22, 2004)

What is a good species to start with in the OW T:s?


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## David Burns (Dec 22, 2004)

As long as you do your research before you buy, I would say a Haplopelma lividum or a Citharischius crawshayi. Maybe a Poecilotheria sp..


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## Ultimate Instar (Dec 22, 2004)

Do you want a species that is usually visible?  Terrestrial OW Ts tend to hide most of the time.  Although P. murinus "usumbara" are quite pretty and may be relatively visible, I would not recommend tham.  Even though they are very inexpensive, they can be the most difficult to deal with.  Haplopelma lividum has quite an attitude as well and tends to hide all the time.  Some of the African species and the Asian Haplopelmas tend to be rather nervous and "aggressive" and do not make a good first OW T.  The calmer terrestrial OW Ts are fairly secretive and they would much rather stay inside their burrow, so there really isn't much difference in dealing with a terrestrial OW or a very shy NW T.  You're mostly dealing with a hole in the dirt.  Except, of course, when you change the substrate or need to transfer the T to a larger cage and then you need to worry.  You should read some of the posts on how to safely capture an "aggressive" T.  Also, check out the bite reports section for information.

In my collection, I have some OW Ts.  I have 2 Cyriopagopus schiodtei; they are secretive as slings but usually become more visible as they get older.  I had a Chilobrachys fimbriatus that was often visible as an adult but I believe that is somewhat odd behavior for that species.  You should probably stay away from the "aggressive" OW arboreal species like Stromatopelma calceatum.  Poechilotheria regalis is not inclined to bite but their venom is fairly strong so many people do not keep any Poechilotheria species.  Personally, I don't think that they are dangerous but I treat them with respect.  In any case, you may wish to start with a small sling and get used to its behavior before purchasing any adult OW Ts.

Karen N.


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## port513 (Dec 22, 2004)

Thanks for your answers.


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## vulpina (Dec 22, 2004)

I have 2 Chilobrachys fimbriatus that are visible most of the time and do not seem as defensive as an H. lividum.  But yes, most of the O.W. species are fairly secretive and you would not see much of them.

Andy


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## Michael Jacobi (Dec 22, 2004)

In my opinion, the best "beginner" Old World species is _Eucratoscelus pachypus_ - the "Stout-legged Baboon". It is an interesting looking spider that has a calmer temperament than just about any other OW species and is inexpensive.

I strongly disagree with the suggestion that either _Haplopelma lividum_ or any _Poecilotheria_ species would be good starter species. The former is highly defensive and proper care involves keeping it housed so that it has a deep burrow and is almost never seen. The latter has a comparatively potent venom and although I think most people are overly cautious about adding one to their collection, experience with other "less potent" fast-moving and nervous species should be acquired first.

I do agree that _Citharischius crawshayi_ would be a reasonable first OW species - as long as you treat it as a display spider that you don't "interact with". Still, this is a very large and defensive species that makes a formidable opponent to the novice keeper.

I also agree that the "Orange Bitey Thing" - _Pterinochilus murinus_ RCF would be a good choice. Spiderlings can reach adult in not much more than a year. They are gorgeous and interesting as they create extensive silk tunnels and burrows. If you are ready for dealing with their temperament they are a fine choice.

Any of the "horned baboons" - _Ceratogyrus_ species - could also be considered. As with most OW tarantulas, they are defensive and not hesitant to bite, but they are calmer than most Asian species and some Africans. They will create deep burrows if given the substrate depth, but kept on shallow substrate they will use silk for retreats and remain visible.

The African genus _Augacephalus_ would make a good choice, but they are fairly scarce in the trade.

In general, I would recommend African species over those from Asia, many of which are from humid areas and will suffer without the opportunity to burrow. _Chilobrachys fimbriatus_ would be a reasonable first Asian.

Cheers,
Michael


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## Lopez (Dec 22, 2004)

Nicely put Michael. 
I agree, particularly with regards to Haplopelma lividum, this really is one of the worst Haplopelma species to start off with, along with the sp"Vietnam" that are so so cheap to buy at the moment (particularly in America where they are normally sold as Vietnam Bird Eaters) 
Both are very highly strung members af a generally highly strung genus.


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## moricollins (Dec 22, 2004)

I concur with Michael on many points, particularly that members of the Ceratogyrus family would make a nice addition as a first OW tarantula.  My first old worlders were a Ceratogyrus marshalli and a Heteroscodra maculata (who I NEVER see).  

My P. murinus sling eats like a pig, easily the best eater of any of my slings, but it is a bit on the fast side (either that or my reflexes are going already )

I always thought that Eucratoscelus pachypus were extensive diggers, much like H. lividums... 

Hope this helps

Mori


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## port513 (Dec 22, 2004)

I really don't care if I see them or not, I keep T:s for my own experience and for that I don't have to see them all the time.

What do you prefere when you keep OW? A front opened terrarium or a top opened terrarium?

I only have front opened at the moment.


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## Windchaser (Dec 22, 2004)

port513 said:
			
		

> I really don't care if I see them or not, I keep T:s for my own experience and for that I don't have to see them all the time.
> 
> What do you prefere when you keep OW? A front opened terrarium or a top opened terrarium?
> 
> I only have front opened at the moment.


With respect to seeing them, understand that with some of these OW T's, it is not a matter of seeing them sometimes, but virtually never. As you say, it may not matter much to you but I just wanted to make sure you were clear regarding this aspect. I have a H. lividum that I see out of its burrow at most once a year. I will occassionally see her legs sticking up near the entrance to the burrow, but as soon as I get near her tank, she retreats to her burrow. The only way I am able to see her at all is that she was very accomidating and built her burrow right along the glass. So, I can sort of see her through the webbing she has lined her burrow with.

Also, I think a top open tank would be best for any burrowing tarantula. It gives you greater depth for your substrate.


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## DracosBana (Dec 22, 2004)

A lot of the species listed as good beginner OW T's are terestrial burroweres.  Are there any good Arboreals for a first Old World T?  I have some Avic versicolors, Avic purpureas, a rosie, and an A. geniculata.  I was thinking of getting a P. regalis after the holidays, but now I'm not so sure.


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## USMuscle9403 (Dec 22, 2004)

I really don't think you can go wrong with P. murinus. You CAN NOT kill these guys (not that you'd want to), they are incredibly hardy and good eaters so that makes them a perfect 'beginner' T for those who won't touch their spiders. They can be on the quick side though so that's really the only thing you'd need to watch out for. If you're caution-minded, they're awesome. Very inexpensive and beautiful spiders, too. I recommend giving them the benefit of both arboreal and terrestrial habitat, mine have preferred both. They web nicely, I always liked spiders that did lots of webbing. 

Dracos, a Pokie is a far cry from A. versicolor. I have never known them to be particularly aggressive but they are some of teh fastest Ts and it's said that they can cause some fairly significant side effects with a bite, moreso than your average T. They are pretty much an advanced species. There aren't many OW arboreals that I'd recommend to someone that's only kept very gentle arboreals and terrestrials.


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## Michael Jacobi (Dec 22, 2004)

DracosBana said:
			
		

> Are there any good Arboreals for a first Old World T?


In a word, NO. Experience should be gained with fast and defensive OW species that are not large or known for there strong venom first. For example, The OBT/Usambara Orange.

All three of the main OW arboreal genera - _Heteroscodra_ and _Stromatopelma_ from Africa and _Poecilotheria_ from India/Sri Lanka are thought to possess the strongest venom amongst the theraphosids.

The third African genus - _Xenodendrophila_ - is very rare.

Asia possesses some "semi-arboreal" species such as _Cyriopagopus schioedtei_ and _Cyriopagopus_ sp. 'Singapore'.

When you think you are ready for an OW arboreal I suggest starting with _Heteroscodra maculata_, which tend to stay near the bottom in dense silk and are less likely to run out the cage on you or _Poecilotheria regalis_, which is more calm than most other "Poecs" and is the genus "classic". If you have the money, I consider _Poecilotheria miranda_ to be the calmest "Poec". Avoid _P. fasciata_ and _P. ornata_ until you have experience with other "Poecs" - these are, IMO, the most nervous species.

Cheers, Michael


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## Ultimate Instar (Dec 22, 2004)

From reading the above postings, it's pretty obvious that there isn't a perfect first OW T.  I realize that Michael has a lot more experience but I tend to disagree with him that an "usambara" would be a good first OW T, because some individuals are very feisty.  If you can find one, a small C. crawshayi sling might be the best choice for a non-arboreal OW T since they're not particularly fast.  Of course, you'll have to wait years for it to grow up.  I have a 1.5 inch sling in a clear plastic container and I see it all the time.  At that size, they are very attractive and look similar to the adults.  It might be hard to find one since this species is very difficult to breed.

Karen N.


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## Scott C. (Dec 22, 2004)

I don't agree with the _C. crawshayi_ being a good starter OW T. I've had the pleasure of being charged by a rather large one, and if that was my first exp. with a T I don't think I'd be where I am now(The T wouldn't be where she's at either).


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## BugToxin (Dec 22, 2004)

vulpina said:
			
		

> I have 2 Chilobrachys fimbriatus that are visible most of the time and do not seem as defensive as an H. lividum.  But yes, most of the O.W. species are fairly secretive and you would not see much of them.
> 
> Andy


This is a very interesting thread.  Thank you port513 for bringing this up.  I took a look at some pictures of the Chilobrachys fimbriatus and must say that this is a truly handsome species.  The other spider that keeps being listed on this thread is the Citharischius crawshayi .  I have thought about getting one of these myself, but heard about them digging a hole and never coming out.  Is this true?  I would be interested in what are the most VISIBLE old world species.  I do have a P. murinus sling and they do seem to grow fast, eat well, and mine stays visible in it's corner web all the time although it also has a little hole dug directly beneath it's web.  What about the Hysterocrates gigas?


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## 8leggedrobot (Dec 23, 2004)

What's wrong with the wonderfully fuzzy, generally (don't gut me here, I *did* say _generally_) nicer and slower NW species?  I've got an A. braunshaunseni (sp? too lazy to double check, lol), Zoe, I can pick up by (rubber-gloved) hand and stick in the container so I can dig those blasted super worms out. She's about 7" now and moulted once since I've had her. My only OW T, P. lugardi, is so nasty. I call him (and one rosehair) my "EBTs" -- Evil Bitey Things. 

I am still nervous about moving the P. lugardi, it's such a switch from having NW Ts. When people on this board have made a big deal about the differences in NW and OW species I can see why. There is a stupid worm loose in the P. lugardi's, enclosure and since I've only had him for a week I'm still getting used to dealing with him. :8o Luckily he doesn't seem to be close to moulting, but then again I am used to looking for signs in the NW, which I've read are easier to detect because of the balding abdomen.

sigh. :? I love the look of many OW Ts but I'm just not ready to care for them I guess. If we can decide on a good first OW T I am definately listening though.


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## cricket54 (Dec 23, 2004)

I haven't had any problems with superworms being in a T's tank burried somewhere. They just find a place and stay then become beetles after a while which my tarantula will eat or I remove the beetle and give it to another one of my tarantulas. I have some that love to eat these beetles.

Sharon


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## 8leggedrobot (Dec 23, 2004)

I recently had a superworm hole up next to the glass of the aquarium and start morphing into beetle form! It was amazing to watch. Then, the other superworm escapee, found it... total carnage, let me tell you!  LOL! It ate the still soft beetle, starting with it's legs. Gory but fascinating, also. So I've read about superworms lost in the soil harming moulting Ts, and after witnessing that I'd rather not take any chances. This happened in the container of my rosehair Sheelah who just moulted, and I was on the lookout for than ravenous worm, LOL  Out of all of my Ts there are 2 lost superworms, one still in Sheelah's cage and one in the P. lugardi's. :8o Upto 7 Ts now, 6 NW and 1 OW.


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## DracosBana (Dec 23, 2004)

SpiderShoppe said:
			
		

> When you think you are ready for an OW arboreal I suggest starting with _Heteroscodra maculata_, which tend to stay near the bottom in dense silk and are less likely to run out the cage on you or _Poecilotheria regalis_, which is more calm than most other "Poecs" and is the genus "classic". If you have the money, I consider _Poecilotheria miranda_ to be the calmest "Poec". Avoid _P. fasciata_ and _P. ornata_ until you have experience with other "Poecs" - these are, IMO, the most nervous species.
> 
> Cheers, Michael


Thanks Michael.  I think I'm going to go with a P. regalis.  That's the one I was thinking of originally.  I prefer slings (or whatever the young are called) with any animals I keep, so that should give me plenty of time to get used to speed and attitude of whichever I finally decide on.


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## David Burns (Dec 23, 2004)

I have pokies, a C.crawshayi, H.lividum, H.minax and OBTs (P.murinus RCF.) I have had S.calceatum and Hysterocates sp..  The only ones that have ever attact me or bolted, showing some speed are the OBTs and the S.calceatum. 

I guess I have something to look forward too.


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## tequila (Apr 17, 2007)

Thanks for all the great information i was thinking of getting a P. regalis soon, although i have only kept a rose hair, i feel relatively confident i can deal with a Poec, the speed doesnt bother me and the potent venom is a issue but i dont plan on handling it, would one of the front opening terrariums be a good set up for one? i was thinkin maybe the 12"x12"x18" one, maybe i will hold off on it for a while, maybe not... 

-Dustin


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## Midnightrdr456 (Apr 17, 2007)

those tanks are great for larger arboreals like pokies, but you would need an adult, that wouldnt be good for a sling.


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## Scorpendra (Apr 17, 2007)

my first OW was a Cyriopagopus sp. "blue". i think that most tarantulas can be kept by anyone as long as they do their research beforehand and give the spider a certain degree of respect, especially in terms of handling. but if you do not intend on handling, then i'd say go with whatever you like. that's why i got my Cyrio.


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## Bothrops (Apr 17, 2007)

I think a _Pterinochilus sp_. sling it would be a good OW starter.


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## YouLosePayUp (Apr 17, 2007)

P. lugardi is the Old World G. rosea.

H. maculata is pretty placid until you need to move them and then they can be lightning quick.

C. crawshayi is a good choice if you get a small juvie or sling as you will have years to grow and learn with it.

E. pachypus is NOT a good choice IME.  I can't even add water without threat/striking.

With all that said if you use your head and give it respect you would do fine with any old worlder.  

*Pick the one you want!!!
*


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## 7mary3 (Jan 24, 2008)

I would have to say that P. Murinus is a good choice for a starter OW T. While they can be rather fiesty, they are tanks. It's hard to hurt 'em, and as far as maintanance goes, it's not a problem at all. They are beautiful, and my girl is out and about most of the time. Add the moderate to high visibility with the awesome webs that they lay, and you've got a very cool T. Handling is a no go though, as that they are prone to tagging, hence the nickname OBT. No matter what, if you prepare yourself and respect the T, you'll be ok. My first T ever, as a complete noob, was a P. Regalis. I then went straight to the OBT. So long as you respect them and don't mess around trying to get threat displays and crap like that, you'll be ok.


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## ChondroGirl (Jan 24, 2008)

Just from my own experience, I would recommend Eucratoscelus pachypus (Stout leg).  They are pretty calm, don't move as fast, and are beautiful!


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## Qvarnold (Jan 24, 2008)

I'd go for a Poecilotheria, maybe metallica. I think people tend to hype almost every OW sp. there is to be had.
I started out with a Chromatopelma, and two months later I bought two P. murinus and a Poecilotheria pederseni and I haven't had a single problem with them so far.
As long as you treat your spider with the repect it deserves I don't think you should run into any problems what so ever. Just do your research well and you'll be A-OK.

Good luck, pokies and orange bitey things are awesome .


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## Venom (Jan 24, 2008)

Go with Michael's recommendation of a Eucratoscelus sp.  For an OW tarantula, you'll be hard put to find a less defensive temperament. Plus they have a strange appearance, and interesting habits. I'd definitely recommend these over any Haplopelma, Pokie, or others. These are considered advanced species, and there really are good reasons for this.


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## Sylvi (Jan 24, 2008)

I don't consider myself an experienced T keeper at all and I have a H Longpipes, H Schmidti, H Gigas and some P Regalis. All of them are easy to keep with regard to tank maintenance - the Haplos just dissapear to the bottom of their burrows, as does the Gigas; and the Regalis head down their tubes ( which I then plug with a ball of kitchen tissue ).  Its when they have to be rehoused that I take most care, although if they are going to come belting out and up the forceps I don't think anyone would be quick enough to retreat, the experience is not to panic. Mine are defensive T's and are happy if you don't invade their personal space. I have NW T's too and the most troublesome ones have been young juvs who haven't had any potting up, as they get older mine seem to get easier. The thing that bothers me the most is those wretched Blondie hairs.

I would recomend the P Regalis too. Just treat them with respect and don't get complacent.


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## Sevenrats (Jan 24, 2008)

If you are going to get an OWS, get one you will be able to see. My first one was an OBT. To see it you had to sneak in with a flashlight at 2 AM. My second Old worlder is a P. regalis. Awesome spider. I highly recommend it. I got mine as a little tiny baby which is a good way to do it. It's growing fast and is now about 3 inches. If you get it small then you get experience with it as it grows. 

It is quick but not aggressive unless you get too close. Rehousing is a bit of a procedure. I just rehoused 3 L. parahybana. Couple of taps on the butt with a brush, they act like they are going to stand their ground then they go where they're told. 

You do that with a Pokie and you'll be wearing it on you're face. 

I recommend a P. regalis sling between 1/2 and 1 inch.


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## GartenSpinnen (Jan 24, 2008)

Dang i get aggravated when a certain species is never brought up! What about P. lugardi for a first OW T? They are not as defensive IME as P. murinus RCF and some others, they have a nice pattern to them, and seem to be more skittish and would rather run than put up a fight like H. lividum or P. murinus. Also, they make very nice webbing just like P. murinus and are very inexpensive. Just my 2 cents...
-Nate


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## TmanPhil (Feb 16, 2008)

Lugardi's are great, but they really are as unpredictable as anything else. they can be extremely quick and can spin and bite as fast as about anything out there. i have had a few of them over the years. they are a great spider though. really subtly beautiful.


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## AlexRC (Jan 10, 2011)

Yet another wonderful thread.  All of these replies are great references for helping me decide which will be my first OW.  I haven't made a decision but am able to have clearer thoughts now, thanks AB community.


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## Musicwolf (Jan 10, 2011)

Put me down for Chilobrachys fimbriatus.  I have two that are a little over 3" now, and they may be my favorite T's to check on. They are absolutely fantastic webbers, filling any container I put them in with web tunnels. However, I can always see them as they like to sit out in the open, until I open the top to do maintenance or feed. Then, they quickly disappear down some tunnel and don't show themselves again until I'm done or the cricket hits the web. They also have an amazing feeding response - - if you're a cricket you barely hit bottom before being completely overwhelmed. In all honesty, I almost forget that they are OWers, but then again . . . . I started with two nasty Aussie T's as my first, and then got 4 pokies and an H. lividum a month later, so I didn't do things exactly normal.


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## Merfolk (Jan 10, 2011)

One oddball that I would add is Selenobracys philippinus. I think it's the most exhibitionist OW terrestrial. I have a 2"  supplied with a mound of dirt to burrow. She is in basically only to rest and molt ; the rest of the time she's out for a walk.

Otherwise, Pokies are my faves and I started with them with no problem. Just keep hands off. Singablue is stunning when female, but a bit more reclusive. The OBTs I had weren't that bad either.


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## Vespula (Jan 11, 2011)

I'm 100% OBT. Mine was my fist OW and I love her!


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## brian abrams (Jan 14, 2011)

*1st OW*

My first and only OW was a female E. Pachypus.  Never seen 1 threat pose.  She was also as advertised; a pet hole.  So I guess could suggest E Pachypus as a first OW; only I wouldn't want another one. To me they are just drab, boring "pet holes".  Also, outside of mature males, It was my only adult T that died, so I must of done something wrong.


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## Blackprizm (Feb 17, 2013)

I have Phlogiellus as my old world tarantulas. They were burrowers, but you can handle them fairly easy.


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## Spiderkid (Feb 17, 2013)

@Blackprizm, This sounds like a very, very bad idea lol 

@OP, my first OW was a P. murinus, and she has never given me a problem. OBT's are cheap, beautiful, and tough as nails. As long as you are prepared for and respect their speed and defensiveness, you should have nothing to worry about.


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## Shrike (Feb 18, 2013)

Spiderkid said:


> @OP, my first OW was a P. murinus, and she has never given me a problem. OBT's are cheap, beautiful, and tough as nails. As long as you are prepared for and respect their speed and defensiveness, you should have nothing to worry about.


Speaking of the OP, it's been 9 years since he posted this. He hasn't logged on to AB in 6 years

Reactions: Like 3 | Funny 1


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## Ultum4Spiderz (Feb 18, 2013)

who brought back this dead thread??? OP has been gone for 9 years!


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## McGuiverstein (Feb 18, 2013)

Shrike said:


> Speaking of the OP, it's been 9 years since he posted this. He hasn't logged on to AB in 6 years


Hahaha I love it when this happens X)

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Spiderkid (Feb 19, 2013)

Oops, my bad


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## jdl (Feb 20, 2013)

I think it will depend on you.  The first question is have you kept any tarantulas at all?  If you have, are any of them aggressive/nervous species such as Psalmopoeus?  Third, how much research have you done?  My first tarantula order was five spiderlings and two were Pterinochilus, murinus and widenmanni.  I have kept spiders for 20 years and have never been bitten.  There are a lot of videos on youtube that show how fast tarantulas are and even generally docile species have bitten human beings that assumed they would not get bit.  I heard a story of a biologist that was terrified of a Brachypelma albopilosum as it struck every time you even walked past the cage.  The only thing about Poecilotheria, Haplopelma and Pelinobius is they have pretty specific care needs.  If you think you can provide those, go for it.  Last is what tools do you have and where do you plan to take care of it.  I use fish nets and forceps for the spiders that like to escape.  Heteroscodra macula is famous for darting out of cages and you have to make sure there isn't a lot of crevices it can escape into.  Once again, do a lot of research whatever your choice is and make sure both you and the spider are safe.  Good luck.


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