# Ideas for making my Euathlus sp red's more comfortable?



## ErinM31 (Mar 25, 2016)

Each adult is housed in a medium-sized Exo Terra breeding box. Pictures below:

View media item 32813View media item 32814View media item 32815
The substrate is mostly peat with a bit of topsoil and coconut fiber/husk -- I thought it would be good for burrowing (you can see the depth on the shallowest end of the enclosures in the third photo. When neither made their own burrow (strangely, the female did burrow quite a bit in the half-gallon jars I had to keep them in for a few days as their terraria arrived later than I'd expected), I thought I'd help with some pre-made burrows/hides but I don't think that either has been used. I made the male's of lightweight rock, carefully fitted together and packed in to ensure no danger of collapse. The female's is a resin log and some leaves because... I'd run out of ideas? Most animals that I have kept are made much more comfortable when supplied with a hide. The male seems to be settling in, usually sitting somewhere on the substrate or digging in one corner that he's decided needs excavation. The female, however, has not. I usually find her on the side or top of the terrarium and she is noticeably more skittish now and I can think of no reason why this should be the case. My experience with other creatures tells me that I need to add more decor and hides and such to make them feel more secure, yet this is not what I have read in books nor on forums.

Any advice on how I can make my tarantulas feel more at home? Are the enclosures good? Shall I add more hides/artificial plants/real leaves/dried moss/anything?

Thank you for any suggestions!


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## BobBarley (Mar 26, 2016)

ErinM31 said:


> Each adult is housed in a medium-sized Exo Terra breeding box. Pictures below:
> 
> View media item 32813View media item 32814View media item 32815
> The substrate is mostly peat with a bit of topsoil and coconut fiber/husk -- I thought it would be good for burrowing (you can see the depth on the shallowest end of the enclosures in the third photo. When neither made their own burrow (strangely, the female did burrow quite a bit in the half-gallon jars I had to keep them in for a few days as their terraria arrived later than I'd expected), I thought I'd help with some pre-made burrows/hides but I don't think that either has been used. I made the male's of lightweight rock, carefully fitted together and packed in to ensure no danger of collapse. The female's is a resin log and some leaves because... I'd run out of ideas? Most animals that I have kept are made much more comfortable when supplied with a hide. The male seems to be settling in, usually sitting somewhere on the substrate or digging in one corner that he's decided needs excavation. The female, however, has not. I usually find her on the side or top of the terrarium and she is noticeably more skittish now and I can think of no reason why this should be the case. My experience with other creatures tells me that I need to add more decor and hides and such to make them feel more secure, yet this is not what I have read in books nor on forums.
> ...


The enclosure looks good!  Give her some time, she may come around.  Even if she doesn't, individuals vary.  Anything that you add to it would just be for aesthetics.  Just keep the sub dry and your good to go!

Reactions: Helpful 1


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## ErinM31 (Mar 26, 2016)

BobBarley said:


> The enclosure looks good!  Give her some time, she may come around.  Even if she doesn't, individuals vary.  Anything that you add to it would just be for aesthetics.  Just keep the sub dry and your good to go!


Thank you! I keep the substrate dry except for the area right around the water dishes is damper -- which is partly their doing, lol -- and partly because I read somewhere that they like to have a moister corner.


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## BobBarley (Mar 26, 2016)

ErinM31 said:


> Thank you! I keep the substrate dry except for the area right around the water dishes is damper -- which is partly their doing, lol -- and partly because I read somewhere that they like to have a moister corner.


Beautiful t btw!  You are doing everything correctly, individuals of any species vary from one another.  Are you planning on breeding?

Reactions: Like 1


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## viper69 (Mar 26, 2016)

I own male and female E sp Red/Yellows. Your setup seems fine. Pre-made burrows are a crap shoot if T will use or not.

There's nothing I would change from what I observed.

My AF Red has a half pipe I made, she dug out the back.

My MM Yellow has plain coco fiber and cork bark and plenty of tunnels, and earlier made a massive lair.

My other Red has a massive lair too.

These localities are big time excavators IME.

Your Ts are big enough that they should have a water bowl, top one cropped out or doesn't?

Also, throw in some slabs of cork bark for them to walk on etc.


I put dry moss on my AF's hide, she doesn't pay any attention to it.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Informative 1


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## ErinM31 (Mar 26, 2016)

BobBarley said:


> Beautiful t btw!  You are doing everything correctly, individuals of any species vary from one another.  Are you planning on breeding?


Thank you!  Yes, I most certainly am! Once they've settled in, then the music and the candlelit dinners begin.

Reactions: Like 1


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## ErinM31 (Mar 26, 2016)

viper69 said:


> I own male and female E sp Red/Yellows. Your setup seems fine. Pre-made burrows are a crap shoot if T will use or not.
> 
> There's nothing I would change from what I observed.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the info!  Both T's have water dishes (just cropped out of the top photo), currently petri dishes, but I might swap these for the Exo Terra XS water dishes

Is there a reason you would recommend cork bark over found bark that has been cleaned and sterilized (as much as is possible)? I live in sort of a small forest and have found lots of interesting branches and bark which I've used for my amphibians and isopods.
EDIT: After searching about the forums, I think I will use some oak and other found barks. Am I correct in understanding the advantages of cork bark being its renewability and resistance to mold? If so, for the first, I will be taking what the trees have parted with naturally and as for the second, hopefully that can be avoided by the combination of a dry enclosure and some forest springtails. If there's a reason I haven't considered, please let me know -- I'm very much still learning!


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## viper69 (Mar 26, 2016)

ErinM31 said:


> Thank you for the info!  Both T's have water dishes (just cropped out of the top photo), currently petri dishes, but I might swap these for the Exo Terra XS water dishes
> 
> Is there a reason you would recommend cork bark over found bark that has been cleaned and sterilized (as much as is possible)? I live in sort of a small forest and have found lots of interesting branches and bark which I've used for my amphibians and isopods.
> EDIT: After searching about the forums, I think I will use some oak and other found barks. Am I correct in understanding the advantages of cork bark being its renewability and resistance to mold? If so, for the first, I will be taking what the trees have parted with naturally and as for the second, hopefully that can be avoided by the combination of a dry enclosure and some forest springtails. If there's a reason I haven't considered, please let me know -- I'm very much still learning!


I use these for my dwarf Ts. They are deep and hold 15 mLs of water, not sure how much the XS size holds. Also, they are 99cents at the dollar store, and likely cheaper than the XS but you'd have to check. I've seen them in drug stores too for a couple dollars more. I use the Small ExoTerras for Ts that are 4" and up.

Just click on the pic for larger size viewing.

Well there's tons of questions regarding the use of local found products vs store bought. I use cork bark because I originally come from the herp world, and cork bark is the most mold resistant material I have used personally for the rain forest dwelling animals I kept. When I first started making high humidity tanks for some herps, I used a mixture of woods, like sand blasted grapevine, cork bark, ghost wood and others. The only material that didn't have fungus was cork bark. Grapevine grows molt ASAP haha. Also it's very light which makes it VERY cheap to have transported when I move (shippers charge by the pound).

You can't sterilize anything unless you own an autoclave . There are plenty of people who use local materials, I know ColdBlood uses drift wood for example. If I had access to that I'd give it a go. I also think most people use store bought items because they think or rather it gives them a feeling that they are less likely to encounter issues with store bought items, eg bugs, mold, vs locally obtained. W/that said, quite a few of the items I've seen sold by small vendors over the years are being obtained by locally by them in the USA. I saw a guy at a herp store selling nice bags of leaves he obtained probably 5 hours from me.

In the end, I don't think it matters per se. The ONE thing you should be mindful of is knowing if your state or local officials spray chemicals to control insects. If your local area does this, I would NOT use those materials. One of our members lives in FL under a spray zone.

Not sure what you mean by renewability?

You'll also find, if you haven't already that tarantulas have an amazing ability to adapt to various husbandry standards, cage furniture etc. As you keep Ts you may find yourself looking at all sorts of things thinking "ooo what can I use that for w/my Ts".

For example, I was out with a friend in a hair salon, and they had very large hair curlers with large sized holes in them. If I took a file and roughened up the interior slightly for Ts to grip easier, they would have made a great vertical tube for an arboreal (sometimes it's hard for me to find reasonably priced cork tubes in my locality).

There's a lot of DIYer projects for Ts, just depends on your time, money etc. Another example that I have done (quite common), is taking PVC pipe segments, cutting them in half with a Dremel tool (quite easy to do, the stuff melts like butter), then applying hot glue on the exterior and applying cocco fiber mats (obtained from the hermit crab hobby/world), and then hot gluing moss on top of that. My AF E sp Red uses it all the time.

I wish I had the link, but there's a guy that took a flame torch and flames PVC pipe and then dips it in water to cool it off. The result is a beautiful looking hide that for plastic looks a lot like cracked bark. I was pretty impressed.

IF you have really small Ts, here's a link for tip resistant water bowls, I've used successfully too. http://www.tarantulasus.com/showthread.php/4353-A-tip-for-a-Tip-resistant-water-dish


You have the best beginner T out there hands down.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Informative 1


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## Walter1 (Mar 26, 2016)

ErinM31 said:


> Each adult is housed in a medium-sized Exo Terra breeding box. Pictures below:
> 
> View media item 32813View media item 32814View media item 32815
> The substrate is mostly peat with a bit of topsoil and coconut fiber/husk -- I thought it would be good for burrowing (you can see the depth on the shallowest end of the enclosures in the third photo. When neither made their own burrow (strangely, the female did burrow quite a bit in the half-gallon jars I had to keep them in for a few days as their terraria arrived later than I'd expected), I thought I'd help with some pre-made burrows/hides but I don't think that either has been used. I made the male's of lightweight rock, carefully fitted together and packed in to ensure no danger of collapse. The female's is a resin log and some leaves because... I'd run out of ideas? Most animals that I have kept are made much more comfortable when supplied with a hide. The male seems to be settling in, usually sitting somewhere on the substrate or digging in one corner that he's decided needs excavation. The female, however, has not. I usually find her on the side or top of the terrarium and she is noticeably more skittish now and I can think of no reason why this should be the case. My experience with other creatures tells me that I need to add more decor and hides and such to make them feel more secure, yet this is not what I have read in books nor on forums.
> ...


Euathlus 'Red' or 'dwarf flame' is actually a rock-dweller. Cage is more than large enough. They're fun to keep.


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## ErinM31 (Mar 26, 2016)

viper69 said:


> I use these for my dwarf Ts. They are deep and hold 15 mLs of water, not sure how much the XS size holds. Also, they are 99cents at the dollar store, and likely cheaper than the XS but you'd have to check. I've seen them in drug stores too for a couple dollars more. I use the Small ExoTerras for Ts that are 4" and up.


The little petri dishes I'm using now only hold 2-3 mL. The XS ExoTerra dishes should hold more and be more aesthetically fitting and are only $4 from Josh's Frogs. I know my Ts probably don't care about that, but I do.  But I appreciate the recommendation. 



viper69 said:


> Well there's tons of questions regarding the use of local found products vs store bought. I use cork bark because I originally come from the herp world, and cork bark is the most mold resistant material I have used personally for the rain forest dwelling animals I kept. When I first started making high humidity tanks for some herps, I used a mixture of woods, like sand blasted grapevine, cork bark, ghost wood and others. The only material that didn't have fungus was cork bark. Grapevine grows molt ASAP haha. Also it's very light which makes it VERY cheap to have transported when I move (shippers charge by the pound).


Ohhh, that is good to know. The over-priced manzilla branch that was sold to be as great for dart frog enclosures has molded up worse and faster than any of my found wood. I've been wondering what to do about it and hope all the isopods and springtails I've been adding help. Have you found cork bark branches? All I've seen, although I haven't looked extensively, are hides and flat pieces.



viper69 said:


> You can't sterilize anything unless you own an autoclave . There are plenty of people who use local materials, I know ColdBlood uses drift wood for example. If I had access to that I'd give it a go. I also think most people use store bought items because they think or rather it gives them a feeling that they are less likely to encounter issues with store bought items, eg bugs, mold, vs locally obtained. W/that said, quite a few of the items I've seen sold by small vendors over the years are being obtained by locally by them in the USA. I saw a guy at a herp store selling nice bags of leaves he obtained probably 5 hours from me.
> 
> In the end, I don't think it matters per se. The ONE thing you should be mindful of is knowing if your state or local officials spray chemicals to control insects. If your local area does this, I would NOT use those materials. One of our members lives in FL under a spray zone.


Lol, very true. Actually, I COULD autoclave everything, but surely that isn't necessary! I've just been baking or boiling rocks, bark and branches before putting them in my vivaria to get rid of any pest/parasitic insects.

The pest control DOES concern me and I know there is spraying around the buildings and wouldn't use anything I found too close to home, but I have assumed that the surrounding forest area is safe. I should find out for sure, if I can.



viper69 said:


> You'll also find, if you haven't already that tarantulas have an amazing ability to adapt to various husbandry standards, cage furniture etc. As you keep Ts you may find yourself looking at all sorts of things thinking "ooo what can I use that for w/my Ts".
> 
> For example, I was out with a friend in a hair salon, and they had very large hair curlers with large sized holes in them. If I took a file and roughened up the interior slightly for Ts to grip easier, they would have made a great vertical tube for an arboreal (sometimes it's hard for me to find reasonably priced cork tubes in my locality).
> 
> ...


That is cool and one of the things that I am enjoying and why I prefer to only supplement with often-over-priced pre-made furnishings -- I enjoy finding things, re-purposing things and the whole construction and furnishing vivaria for both my amphibians and arthropods. Thank you for the additional ideas and inspirations! 



viper69 said:


> You have the best beginner T out there hands down.


Good to know! I absolutely adore them! ^_^ I do also have two slings -- _Brachypelma smithi_ and _Hapalopus columbia_ -- both still under an inch but doing well, I think, in their deli cups. Funny, it was on impulse that I got into this hobby, or rather one thing led to another -- I was buying isopods from BugsInCyberspace, first for my amphibian tanks then as intriguing in their own right and then one night I noticed that he sold _B. smithi_ slings -- the tarantula I'd wanted as a kid but my Mom wouldn't hear of me keeping this giant spider that might escape to bite me in my sleep -- and I thought, hell, I'm an adult now and can have one if I want, and I added one to my purchase. Moments later -- how the hell do I take raise a baby tarantula!  I dove into researching it and thankfully found this forum and now I have another sling and my two adult _E. sp. reds_ and am thinking of getting an _Ephebopus murinus_ when I can afford it -- NOT a great beginner T I know, but I find myself obsessed... XD


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## ErinM31 (Mar 26, 2016)

Walter1 said:


> Euathlus 'Red' or 'dwarf flame' is actually a rock-dweller. Cage is more than large enough. They're fun to keep.


Yes, they are!  And good to know! The male already has a burrow that I constructed from lightweight rock. I collected some more to add to the female's enclosure too, so they'll both have lots of options: burrow in dirt, hang out on bark or rock, hang from the ceiling, empty water dish, lol


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## viper69 (Mar 26, 2016)

ErinM31 said:


> The little petri dishes I'm using now only hold 2-3 mL. The XS ExoTerra dishes should hold more and be more aesthetically fitting and are only $4 from Josh's Frogs. I know my Ts probably don't care about that, but I do.  But I appreciate the recommendation.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I know what you meant about aesthetics. But for 99 cents at 15 mLs I couldn't resist the practicality of it. I have the Small size Exo bowls. I get them for 4$ at reptile shows all the time, never seen the XS in person.

I have seen extremely large cork bark, ie branch size, but not on the web. You need branches for your Ts? A little lost there...

I'd look into the spraying and not assume, you can definitely found this information out from the proper channels.

H sp Columbia "large" I take it? It's not been characterized by science yet, hence the "sp" There's also an H sp Columbia "small", do you know which one you own? The large is a dwarf, and the small is just smaller. They do look different dorsally however. There's a post by Catfishrod and myself chatting, he posted pics of each so the differences could be discerned.

The Ephebopus genus is nice. They are all very nervous, skittish and very fast species. They take off w/out a moment's advance warning. They are also pet-holes too. A genus worth owning.


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## Walter1 (Mar 27, 2016)

ErinM31 said:


> Yes, they are!  And good to know! The male already has a burrow that I constructed from lightweight rock. I collected some more to add to the female's enclosure too, so they'll both have lots of options: burrow in dirt, hang out on bark or rock, hang from the ceiling, empty water dish, lol


Keep clay pot shards in mind. They'll use arched pieces for hides and climb on them. You'll see. Difficult to keep only one. Scrofa is that way, too.


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## Walter1 (Mar 27, 2016)

Walter1 said:


> Keep clay pot shards in mind. They'll use arched pieces for hides and climb on them. You'll see. Difficult to keep only one. Scrofa is that way, too.


Hope you have success with breeding.

Reactions: Like 1


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## ErinM31 (Mar 27, 2016)

viper69 said:


> I have seen extremely large cork bark, ie branch size, but not on the web. You need branches for your Ts? A little lost there...


Sorry, I meant I'd like cork branches for my dart frogs if they are indeed so mold resistant! Every branch I've put into their vivarium molds -- ironically, the manzanita branch most of all. 



viper69 said:


> I'd look into the spraying and not assume, you can definitely found this information out from the proper channels.


I will try to; so far I can find nothing online. 



viper69 said:


> H sp Columbia "large" I take it? It's not been characterized by science yet, hence the "sp" There's also an H sp Columbia "small", do you know which one you own? The large is a dwarf, and the small is just smaller. They do look different dorsally however. There's a post by Catfishrod and myself chatting, he posted pics of each so the differences could be discerned.


I think the "large" one? I had seen pictures on this forum and then read Tom's Big Spiders blog about them and decided I wanted one. It wasn't until afterward that I learned there are two varieties and it doesn't say on KenTheBugGuy's website where I bought mine. I will search for that thread as it would be good to know for sure what I have.



viper69 said:


> The Ephebopus genus is nice. They are all very nervous, skittish and very fast species. They take off w/out a moment's advance warning. They are also pet-holes too. A genus worth owning.


Lol, do I detect a note of sarcasm?  It's okay, I know that but want one anyway. The three species I have now I selected as much for their personalities as anything so I am okay with having one less tractable and more difficult to work with -- and it's still practically cuddly compared to OW species! Those I have no plans on getting.


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## ErinM31 (Mar 27, 2016)

Walter1 said:


> Hope you have success with breeding.


Thank you! I hope so too!


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## ErinM31 (Mar 27, 2016)

Walter1 said:


> Keep clay pot shards in mind. They'll use arched pieces for hides and climb on them. You'll see. Difficult to keep only one. Scrofa is that way, too.


I put in some arched pieces of bark, both have some rock in their enclosure but high enough so that it won't be a fall hazard, and I added some moss and coconut shreds to the surface which if nothing else, makes it look more natural to me.  They seem to like their enclosures more now. The only thing I still really need to change out are their water dishes as these petri dishes are soooo tiny, it seems a single moss fiber dipping in can siphon it all out.


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## TarantulasWorld (Mar 27, 2016)

The enclosures seem fine to me. It took my female E.sp red a month before she finally settled in her enclosure. Sometimes it just takes time

Reactions: Like 1


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## ErinM31 (Mar 28, 2016)

TarantulasWorld said:


> The enclosures seem fine to me. It took my female E.sp red a month before she finally settled in her enclosure. Sometimes it just takes time


Thank you! Mine do seem to be settling in now. The male filled in the rock burrow that I'd carefully made for him -- almost like he considered it a safety hazard -- and most times I see him sitting on top of the large bark piece I added to his enclosure. As far as I can see, the female doesn't have a favorite spot yet but now I usually see her on the substrate or bark, etc. instead of on the walls of her enclosure and she seems to be more calm.

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## viper69 (Mar 28, 2016)

ErinM31 said:


> Sorry, I meant I'd like cork branches for my dart frogs if they are indeed so mold resistant! Every branch I've put into their vivarium molds -- ironically, the manzanita branch most of all.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


For branches , if you haven't, I'd head over to the Dendroboard forum, tons of experts there.

No sarcasm at all, I've owned some Ephe's before. The Ephe's are super fast, and nimble for a NW terrestrial. As fast as my OW Ceratogyrus were.

Reactions: Like 1


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## ErinM31 (Apr 4, 2016)

I just figured out how to load pics directly to the pertinent thread without cluttering the gallery with them and thought I'd edit the first post of this thread thus but it seems I can edit it no longer, so here are the pics, mentioned above, just in case anyone comes by this old thread.






Since these pics I've made improvements or at least changes, lol. I try to find the female a nice burrow but my changing things in her enclosure is, I thin, more disruptive than anything and keeps her from really settling down and so has taken me a step backward in getting her in the mood for love from my gorgeous MM. I'm going to force myself to let her be for a while as I think she'd rather make do with less than perfect than my continual bumbling strides toward that elusive goal...


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## viper69 (Apr 4, 2016)

I own quite a few Breeder Boxes, only thing I don't like about them-- it's hard to take their lids off.


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## ErinM31 (Apr 4, 2016)

viper69 said:


> I own quite a few Breeder Boxes, only thing I don't like about them-- it's hard to take their lids off.


The only thing that I don't care for is, with a shallow enclosure, it would be nice to have most of the top clear for better views. But they are good dimensions, reasonably priced and offer better views and more ventilation than Sterilite boxes.


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## viper69 (Apr 4, 2016)

ErinM31 said:


> The only thing that I don't care for is, with a shallow enclosure, it would be nice to have most of the top clear for better views. But they are good dimensions, reasonably priced and offer better views and more ventilation than Sterilite boxes.


I like the cricket slots quite a bit, perfect for adding syringe or crix. Yeah if they made deep BBs I'd get them. I do enjoy how clear they are. I'm always looking at my Ts. Ventilation w/Sterilite is easy, same thing w/AMAC boxes, one just needs a drill.


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## ErinM31 (Apr 4, 2016)

viper69 said:


> I like the cricket slots quite a bit, perfect for adding syringe or crix. Yeah if they made deep BBs I'd get them. I do enjoy how clear they are. I'm always looking at my Ts.


Same here!  I don't think being deeper would be a good thing as we'd just have to fill it higher with substrate for the safety of climbing T's, leaving us with the same problem, only with a view of more dirt! 



viper69 said:


> Ventilation w/Sterilite is easy, same thing w/AMAC boxes, one just needs a drill.


Oh, yes, I just meant as is. I use the Sterilite flip-lid type boxes for some of my isopods and millipedes. I made ventilation holes along the sides by pushing through a safety pin -- your method sounds much kinder on one's hands!


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