# New H. minax pics...shes not nice



## Nich (Mar 16, 2006)

This one tried to eat me, if I hadnt been wearing a watch i would of been tagged...lol! Heres som shots of her in the tub and in my hand....


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## Skuromis (Mar 16, 2006)

HI, I guess, thats no H. minax ;O) Maybe O. aureotibialis?

However, nice pix!


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## RVS (Mar 16, 2006)

Skuromis said:
			
		

> HI, I guess, thats no H. minax ;O) Maybe O. aureotibialis?
> 
> However, nice pix!


I definitely agree; O. aureotibialis is often mislabeled as H. minax.
I have both species.


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## Nich (Mar 16, 2006)

I did not ask for a sp. id, your both wrong. no hard feelings but xenesthis's word is the closet to final as possible.


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## Skuromis (Mar 16, 2006)

Yes darling, whatever you say. :worship:  It was just a hint. For my part you can label it as whatever you want.


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## Nich (Mar 16, 2006)

It was id'd by Gearheart.







explain to me taxanomically what your claiming.....but ill prob have to wait for you google it.


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## RVS (Mar 16, 2006)

There's no reason for you to be so defensive, no one was attacking you.


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## Nich (Mar 16, 2006)

"my darling" yes thats an attack. No anger, just would like the knitty gritty of why its not an H. minax. Coloration is not a soul indicator, especially in a large-juv.


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## Skuromis (Mar 16, 2006)

Nich said:
			
		

> You can get a life, i dont post for rouse here.


Sorry it was not meant like this.


			
				Nich said:
			
		

> explain to me taxanomically what your claiming.....but ill prob have to wait for you google it.


The orange or golden or whatever hairs at the tibia are typical for O. aureotibialis, thats why it is called as it is called ;O)
But to identify it for sure as whatever it is, you need a real expert like V. v. Wirth.

Br, Marc.


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## Bigboy (Mar 16, 2006)

It is a beautiful spider, be it minax or aureotibialis.  Maybe it just needs some time to darken up is all.  But even the pro's make mistakes.  I hope you get tons of slings from it eventually in either case.


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## Nich (Mar 16, 2006)

*heres a pic of the bathroom it was taken in.....*

I believe it greatly would exaggerate and orange present....


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## RVS (Mar 16, 2006)

I PMed you.


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## Brando (Mar 16, 2006)

*gets some popcorn* this is interesting...


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## FryLock (Mar 16, 2006)

Look's like the "H.minax" i bred in the 90's .


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## smellyocheese (Mar 16, 2006)

she's mad at you alright... she's awfully cute


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## xenesthis (Mar 16, 2006)

*Asian taxonomy*

I'm open minded to the changes in Asian theraphosid taxonomy. I've seen stuff not only change within species, but even genus. Until we have a universal / international method of dissemination of taxonomy changes that theraphosid taxonomists can all agree on and there be some kind of central authority to publish the info and make it known to hobbyists and breeders, not just scientists, this problem with names and IDs will only get worse.

Todd


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## beetleman (Mar 16, 2006)

AHHHH!!! nice looking girl ya got there,yeah she's a looker;P mine is exactly like her in everyway,i have 2 juvie minax,and when they mature i guess we will see if there is a difference(cause ya never know) between the 2 types.good luck with her! :worship:


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## Scorpendra (Mar 16, 2006)

whatever it is, that's one feisty asian you got there ;P.


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## MRL (Mar 16, 2006)

hey Nick....  I have read here and heard from others that some dealers are known to ID things based on what they buy them as whether they believe it to be or not, unless of course they can make more based on the correct ID... Todd likely did not send his to a taxonomist just the same as you ask these people to and his word is hardly the closest to being final.. H minax, as I understand it, is very commonly mis-ided.... People have reason to doubt and telling them you purchased it from Todd does not help your argument one bit so there really isn't any need to be defensive or have an attitude with the people offering what should be helpful comments in your thread.... with that said you have a very pretty spider so I wouldn't be all that worried if it was or wasn't based on a few comments and pics


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## Scolopendra55 (Mar 17, 2006)

She's a friggin psycho (reminds me of my 5" female H.longipes)!!!


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## Nich (Mar 17, 2006)

MRL said:
			
		

> hey Nick....  I have read here and heard from others that some dealers are known to ID things based on what they buy them as whether they believe it to be or not, unless of course they can make more based on the correct ID... Todd likely did not send his to a taxonomist just the same as you ask these people to and his word is hardly the closest to being final.. H minax, as I understand it, is very commonly mis-ided.... People have reason to doubt and telling them you purchased it from Todd does not help your argument one bit so there really isn't any need to be defensive or have an attitude with the people offering what should be helpful comments in your thread.... with that said you have a very pretty spider so I wouldn't be all that worried if it was or wasn't based on a few comments and pics


I totally agree with the "clout I've used in the arguement" as not the same voice as batman and robin to some...but he got me into the hobby and Im never getting out ;P  , It was sold as an H. minax, unless under a stereomicroscope the difference is a faint coloration differential....nontheless you are right. Its reached the same point a state politics...sometimes worse. The taxonomy seems to get as much attention if not more than the T itself in many of theses displays of cognitive prowess...the species and genus has changed more times than i care to of have kept track of. Botttom line...here's my new T, its mean, and like my GF, it tried to bite my wrist....LOL!!!! And I sitll held it....and i'lt also make me some babies hopefully....as the former.


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## Maikardaaion (Mar 17, 2006)

This one was sold to me as Ornithoctonus aureotibialis (previously Haplopelma aureopilosum). And that's the name under which You can buy it here in Poland (Germany and Czech Rep. as well).






The H. minax I have, is competly black. I'll try to make a photo and post it, to prove it.

As I've written above, that was the names they were labbeled, I'm no expert to determine their true name myself. But poeple who I bought those spiders from are ganuine birdspiders breeders for sure 

Either way  Your spider is beautiful and It looks it still has growing to do


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## Mina (Mar 17, 2006)

smellyocheese said:
			
		

> she's mad at you alright... she's awfully cute


I agree, on both.


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## Skuromis (Mar 17, 2006)

Hi,
thats my O. aureotibialis. Sorry for the poor quality. It came out of its burrow while watering its tank. What you can see, is the typical orange strap at the tibia. Same on Maikardaaion's pic and on yours, nich. My minax was not going to leave her burrow, while I flooded it with water.


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## xenesthis (Mar 17, 2006)

*Ornithoctonus aureotibialis VON WIRTH & STRIFFLER, 2005*

This species was just described in 2005. How was the description disseminated to the public hobby since then? 99% of European dealers still use "H. minax" on their lists.

This problem with changing taxonomy and the lack of proper international disseminating of the info needs to be addressed and resolved. The ATS has not been the answer. A new society, international in membership and board representation, that theraphosid taxonomists will be encouraged to be members and encouraged to share their research, findings and descriptions is the answer along with Dr. Platnick's coordination. There is hope that the BTS could do this, but I haven't seen the cross Atlantic coordination happen yet especially with Dr. Platnick. Our hobby is very divided between the taxonomists on their island (or better said, on many different islands), importers/exporters on theirs, and then we have the hobbyists/private breeders that have to keep changing name labels on their tanks. 

We need a solution to this. It's easy to complain about it. Let's get a serious debate on how to remedy this crap. It starts with the theraphosid taxonomists. They have to be willing to share their info directly to our hobby,  not just the scientific community within their country or circle of friends.

Todd


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## Skuromis (Mar 17, 2006)

Hi Todd,
I see a lot of mislabled species at every show here in Germany,  but then it is something like Haplopelma aureopilosum for O.a. and Haplopelma whatever for H. minax. But AFAIK it is very uncommon to mix up H. minax and O.a. here in Germany.
The date of description is not an argument, nobody sells C. spec. blue as C. schioedtei because spec. blue is not described and looks similar except the blue. I guess, the blue is, why it is sold for a higher price, isn't it?

IMHO you are right, a lot of people don't know, what they sell, but have beautiful names for it. So it is important for the T'keeper to communicate with other hobbyists/scientists and be open for hints. Also reading on a few (not only one) T' boards and literature regarding spiders is usefull, listen to lectures given by experts. Then you are able to ask the important questions and get a lot of information. I don't know how the situation in the US is, but many texts on T's I've read are in english, all summaries in scientific articles are in english too. So it can't be an issue because of the language ;O)

Br, Marc.


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## Arachnophobia (Mar 17, 2006)

Beautiful girl!;P


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## MrDeranged (Mar 17, 2006)

Skuromis said:
			
		

> Hi Todd,
> But AFAIK it is very uncommon to mix up H. minax and O.a. here in Germany.
> 
> Br, Marc.


I don't know about Germany, but I can't tell you how many times I've bought what was sold to the importer as _H. minax_ and they turned out to be _O. a._.....

S


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## Lopez (Mar 17, 2006)

xenesthis said:
			
		

> This species was just described in 2005. How was the description disseminated to the public hobby since then? 99% of European dealers still use "H. minax" on their lists.
> 
> This problem with changing taxonomy and the lack of proper international disseminating of the info needs to be addressed and resolved. The ATS has not been the answer. A new society, international in membership and board representation, that theraphosid taxonomists will be encouraged to be members and encouraged to share their research, findings and descriptions is the answer along with Dr. Platnick's coordination. There is hope that the BTS could do this, but I haven't seen the cross Atlantic coordination happen yet especially with Dr. Platnick. Our hobby is very divided between the taxonomists on their island (or better said, on many different islands), importers/exporters on theirs, and then we have the hobbyists/private breeders that have to keep changing name labels on their tanks.
> 
> ...


The reason European dealers use the name H.minax on their lists is that they are selling a different species of spider - namely H.minax.

All the same, it looks to be a very pretty O.aureotibialis  H.minax are a very different spider indeed, and also nice.


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## insectoman (Mar 17, 2006)

Hello,

some pictures of H.minax and O. aureotibialis from a friend, for me the first picture of this thread is an aureotibialis :

H. minax :
http://www.cyriocosmus.com/public/espece.php?ptr=220

O. auretibialis :
http://www.cyriocosmus.com/public/espece.php?ptr=225

regards,
Benoît


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## Arachnophobia (Mar 17, 2006)

Am I the only who don't see the pics?:?


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## YouLosePayUp (Mar 17, 2006)

xenesthis said:
			
		

> We need a solution to this. It's easy to complain about it. Let's get a serious debate on how to remedy this crap. It starts with the theraphosid taxonomists. They have to be willing to share their info directly to our hobby,  not just the scientific community within their country or circle of friends.
> 
> Todd



Solution:  A tarantula council or taxonomic council(All animals included)  These people would be the who's who of the tarantula world.  They would compare findings and amongst them they would make a definitive choice never changing unless they are blatantly wrong(Everyone makes a mistake sometimes).  This council will have a website where the average collector/hobbyist can view the findings.  Most importantly there has to be correlation between countries including ones that no longer allow export of their species as some of these are already in the hobby.


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## Martin H. (Mar 19, 2006)

Hi,



			
				Nich said:
			
		

> explain to me taxanomically what your claiming.....but ill prob have to wait for you google it.


maybe this paper will give you some useful informations: 
 VON WIRTH, V. & B. F. STRIFFLER (2005): Neue Erkenntnisse zur Vogelspinnen  Unterfamilie Ornithoctoninae, mit Beschreibung von Ornithoctonus aureotibialis sp. n. und Haplopelma longipes sp. n. (Araneae, Theraphosidae). _Arthropoda_ 13(2): 2-27.
one can download a PDF version for free >>just click here<<





			
				Nich said:
			
		

> It was sold as an H. minax, unless under a stereomicroscope the difference is a faint coloration differential....


H. minax and O. aureotibialis have also a different habitus.





			
				xenesthis said:
			
		

> This species was just described in 2005. How was the description disseminated to the public hobby since then?


it was announced on several message boards & websites and made available for free download: >>click here<<




			
				xenesthis said:
			
		

> 99% of European dealers still use "H. minax" on their lists.


yep, because they a selling different species than O. aureotibialis labelled H. minax. Some years ago, one could be almost sure when a dealer was offering "H. minax", that one would get "H. sp. aureopilosum"/O. aureotibialis. But nowadays – here in Germany – one rarely gets O. aureotibialis instead and more often the real H. minax.





			
				MrDeranged said:
			
		

> I don't know about Germany, but I can't tell you how many times I've bought what was sold to the importer as _H. minax_ and they turned out to be _O. a._.....


some years ago or still recently/at present?

all the best,
Martin


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## Lopez (Mar 19, 2006)

Martin H. said:
			
		

> But nowadays – here in Germany – one rarely gets O. aureotibialis instead and more often the real H. minax.


In fact, I would say these days it is harder to get hold of O.auerotibialis. H.minax are quite common. 

I guess this is to do with collectors using different areas of Thailand these days.


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## GoTerps (Mar 19, 2006)

> Originally Posted by *xenesthis*
> This species was just described in 2005. How was the description disseminated to the public hobby since then?


Both authors were actually very active in disseminating this information on multiple message boards upon publication... and both were active in discussing the changes.

Here is a thread Volker started on this website on 9/10/2005, on this topic... CLICK HERE


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## drunkinmaster (Mar 19, 2006)

also just a note O.aureotibialis is easy to identify, unless they are worn down.


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## xenesthis (Mar 19, 2006)

*Excellent!*

Thanks Martin for the reference link. I just wish the author's would have included pics of both sexes for all the species that they have on their range map.

Todd


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## Martin H. (Mar 19, 2006)

Hello Todd,



			
				xenesthis said:
			
		

> Thanks Martin for the reference link. I just wish the author's would have included pics of both sexes for all the species that they have on their range map.


that paper was only to describe O. aureotibialis and H. longipes. At the moment they prepaire another paper which sounds very interesting and promising:

STRIFFLER, B. F. & V. VON WIRTH (IN VORB.): Systematics and biogeography of the Theraphosid spider subfamily Ornithoctoninae (Araneae, Theraphosidae).

all the best,
Martin


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## CedrikG (Mar 19, 2006)

> he's mad at you alright...


I dont know any Tarantula that would not be mad afther be handled this way


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## Nich (Mar 20, 2006)

Kirdec said:
			
		

> I dont know any Tarantula that would not be mad afther be handled this way


theres not many options when you have an angry girl like that on your arm....lol

   Martin;
             You have provided more info in one post than Ive gotten from any thread on my new "genus"!:worship:


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