# Corn snake rescue



## Transylvania (Jul 18, 2011)

Meet George, a hatchling corn snake at the zoo that I'm interning at who was doomed to be coral snake food until I decided to take him in at the last second (a zookeeper was literally about to drop him into a coral snake cage when I was like "WAIT!")  I don't think that it's wrong in any way to use them as feeders for the corals (circle of life; everything's gotta eat), but I've never had a snake before and I felt bad for the little guy. Another zoo intern is going to take one of his sisters, but the other 13 are gonna be feeders.

Now George is living under my bed, in between my dubia colony and one of the zoo's adult corn snakes that is recovering from a tumor.


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## Entomancer (Jul 18, 2011)

Okay, everything's gotta eat, but that doesn't mean hatchling corn snakes.

Granted, I know very little about coral snake feeding habits, but I _know_ that it is possible to scent snakes over to different kinds of food. They're a zoo; they should have sufficient resources to at least attempt to do that.


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## Alexandra V (Jul 18, 2011)

Ahh he's adorable!  Pat on the back for saving his life. I get that it's the whole circle of life thing, but I don't think I'd be able to see snakes as feeders (though I am a huge snake lover haha). Share some pics as he grows and gest older 

I agree with the above though, there is no reason for the coral snake not to be converted over to rodents or other types of feeders. They can eat other snakes, and they do in the wild, but a rodent feeder is to my knowledge still perfectly suitable for them. It'd probably even end up cheaper for the zoo as well as a little nicer for us snake lovers


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## Transylvania (Jul 18, 2011)

LordRaiden said:


> Okay, everything's gotta eat, but that doesn't mean hatchling corn snakes.
> 
> Granted, I know very little about coral snake feeding habits, but I _know_ that it is possible to scent snakes over to different kinds of food. They're a zoo; they should have sufficient resources to eat least attempt to do that.


There wasn't anything else to do with them; the zoo already has too many corn snakes, and we don't sell or donate any animals (even if we did, it would have been too difficult to find homes in this area for 15 normal corns). I work for some of the most prestigious herpetologists in the country, so I'm pretty sure they know what they're doing. We're the biggest snake lovers in the world though, so don't assume that we kill snakes just for the heck of it. There's about 2,000 snakes at this zoo, and we love all of them dearly.

My intention here wasn't to start a debate though; it was to show my first snake (the first of many to come).


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## Mojo Jojo (Jul 18, 2011)

LordRaiden said:


> Okay, everything's gotta eat, but that doesn't mean hatchling corn snakes.
> 
> Granted, I know very little about coral snake feeding habits, but I _know_ that it is possible to scent snakes over to different kinds of food. They're a zoo; they should have sufficient resources to eat least attempt to do that.


Mice are more closely related to people than snakes are.  Wouldn't that make using a mouse as a feeder less humane than using a snake as a feeder?

:?


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## Transylvania (Jul 18, 2011)

Mojo Jojo said:


> Mice are more closely related to people than snakes are.  Wouldn't that make using a mouse as a feeder less humane than using a snake as a feeder?
> 
> :?


Exactly what I was thinking.  I love snakes to death (moreso than rodents), but I recognize that rodents are more advanced than them.


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## Entomancer (Jul 18, 2011)

Mojo Jojo said:


> Mice are more closely related to people than snakes are.  Wouldn't that make using a mouse as a feeder less humane than using a snake as a feeder?
> 
> :?


What?

It has nothing to do with humane-ness. It has to do with the vast availability of pre-killed prey available for a snake that could be scented over to those animals with relative ease. 

If there is suitable food available for an animal that is pre-killed and inexpensive, then using live animals that could be donated or sold (if it's so hard to find homes for fifteen corn snakes, then how is it that the first time somebody saw one about to be offered as food, it was taken for keeping as a pet?) is unecessary. 

I'm sure if the zoo tried, it could find an independent pet store that would be able to sell those corn snakes to people who would want them. It could also be good publicity for the zoo, since it would be helping other budding herpetologists/herpetoculturists get into the reptile hobby.


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## Transylvania (Jul 18, 2011)

LordRaiden said:


> if it's so hard to find homes for fifteen corn snakes, then how is it that the first time somebody saw one about to be offered as food, it was taken for keeping as a pet?


Because I work here and I'm allowed to take one. We're strictly not allowed to sell animals to the public - I don't know the exact reasons behind it, but that's the way it is. But like I said, I don't want to argue about this. I just want to be happy about my new snake. Just drop it, please.


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## Warren Bautista (Jul 18, 2011)

Gah! Sweet corn snake!


(in my attempt to get back on topic.... :3)


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## Transylvania (Jul 18, 2011)

Warren Bautista said:


> Gah! Sweet corn snake!
> 
> 
> (in my attempt to get back on topic.... :3)


Hehe thanks!


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## Mojo Jojo (Jul 18, 2011)

Transylvania said:


> Because I work here and I'm allowed to take one. We're strictly not allowed to sell animals to the public - I don't know the exact reasons behind it, but that's the way it is.


Because that would be exploiting company resources for personal gain.  When I worked for a large cell phone company, we got a substantial discount on a phone once a year without contractual obligation.  After five years, we got the phones for free, up to a $500 value I think, again with no contractual obligation.  Many employees were turning around and selling the phones on Ebay or Craigslist unopened, thereby profiting from company resources.  The company finally made it policy that phones obtained though the employee benefit could not be resold and to do so would be punishable.  There were some people that lost their jobs for not heeding the new rule.


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## pavel (Jul 18, 2011)

And once more trying to steer this thread back on topic ........

Cute lil bugger.  Surprised it is corn though.  It looks like a baby milksnake to me.  But then again ......


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## Transylvania (Jul 19, 2011)

He is indeed cute as a button.  He sometimes gets nervous and will "headbutt" my fingers (never bites). So cute!

He readily ate his first pinkie, which is great news. The other intern's corn is refusing to eat though; hers is smaller than mine too.





 "NOMS!"


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## InsectChick (Jul 19, 2011)

Awwww  He's adorable!


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## pitbulllady (Jul 19, 2011)

LordRaiden said:


> Okay, everything's gotta eat, but that doesn't mean hatchling corn snakes.
> 
> Granted, I know very little about coral snake feeding habits, but I _know_ that it is possible to scent snakes over to different kinds of food. They're a zoo; they should have sufficient resources to at least attempt to do that.


Coral Snakes are nearly impossible to switch over to anything but other snakes.  That is why there are so few Coral Snakes in captivity; in fact, you're lucky to get one to eat, PERIOD, in captivity, so anyone who can get a Coral to eat a readily-available small snake feels very priviledged to have that particular Coral Snake.  Many Elapids are strictly ophiophagus and will not switch over to anything else. They'll starve before they eat any other prey item, live or not.  Scenting doen't work with all snakes.  I keep several species of _Nerodia_, and there are some species, like Brown Water Snakes, that just will not take a scented rodent, period.  Now, most Northern Water Snakes will very quickly take to scented and eventually unscented rodents, but not a Brown or a Green.

pitbulllady


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## Transylvania (Jul 19, 2011)

pitbulllady said:


> Coral Snakes are nearly impossible to switch over to anything but other snakes.  That is why there are so few Coral Snakes in captivity; in fact, you're lucky to get one to eat, PERIOD, in captivity, so anyone who can get a Coral to eat a readily-available small snake feels very priviledged to have that particular Coral Snake.  Many Elapids are strictly ophiophagus and will not switch over to anything else. They'll starve before they eat any other prey item, live or not.  Scenting doen't work with all snakes.  I keep several species of _Nerodia_, and there are some species, like Brown Water Snakes, that just will not take a scented rodent, period.  Now, most Northern Water Snakes will very quickly take to scented and eventually unscented rodents, but not a Brown or a Green.
> 
> pitbulllady


Thank you! Yay, someone who knows what they're talking about. I wanted to say that, but I wasn't 100% sure that I'd be correct, since I know almost nothing about corals. The corals we have here are some of our most precious snakes - they have strict care requirements and their venom is some of the most valuable (I think about $1,000 per gram). So we have to ensure that they always get what they need, and that they get the best treatment possible.


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## pavel (Jul 19, 2011)

Transylvania said:


> The other intern's corn is refusing to eat though; hers is smaller than mine too.


Though she probably already has tried this, I mention it in case she hasn't ........  Has she tried split braining the pinky before offering it?


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## Transylvania (Jul 19, 2011)

pavel said:


> Though she probably already has tried this, I mention it in case she hasn't ........  Has she tried split braining the pinky before offering it?


I don't think so... I'll suggest it to her.


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## pitbulllady (Jul 20, 2011)

Transylvania said:


> Thank you! Yay, someone who knows what they're talking about. I wanted to say that, but I wasn't 100% sure that I'd be correct, since I know almost nothing about corals. The corals we have here are some of our most precious snakes - they have strict care requirements and their venom is some of the most valuable (I think about $1,000 per gram). So we have to ensure that they always get what they need, and that they get the best treatment possible.


With so few places even manufacturing Coral Snake antivenin, that stuff is indeed precious.  To make it, of course, you have to have live, healthy Coral Snakes, and they are extremely delicate animals.  Just to give an idea of how rare a Coral Snake that WILL eat anything other than other snakes is, a buddy of mine paid $1500.00 for a long-term captive female that will eat live pinkies that have been scented with Ringneck Snakes, and ONLY Ringneck snakes.  She will not touch pinkies that are dead, no matter what they're scented with, nor will she touch them if they're scented with any other species of snake, nor will she EAT any other species of snake.  But, just the fact that she will eat scented pinkies at all makes her very, very rare and valuable.  That is just how "picky" and difficult Coral Snakes are to keep.  Now, if I had something that rare which had such strict feeding and care requirements, especially if people's lives depended on this animal being healthy, I'd feed it whatever it wanted.  That's coming from someone who breeds a genus of snake which has long traditionally been thought of as being of no use other than feeders for Cobras and Corals and Kraits.

pitbulllady


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## the toe cutter (Jul 20, 2011)

Coralsnake Antivenom production has already ceased and I believe that the remaining vials spread throughout the country expire in Oct of this year. Heres an article I put up here a few months ago, very neat short read of some effects of Micrurus bites.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/health/snakebites-about-to-get-more-deadly


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## pavel (Jul 21, 2011)

Well, geez, doesn't that just leave you all warm and fuzzy?  :wall:


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## Transylvania (Jul 21, 2011)

That really sucks. The FDA makes me so mad sometimes. My boss told me that there's a certain antivenom in Mexico that's more effective than CroFab, but the FDA won't test and approve it (or at least they haven't yet). :wall:


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## the toe cutter (Jul 21, 2011)

It's not just the FDA. The main pharmaceutical co making all of the antivenom in this country is Wyeth and they have alot of interest in keeping competitors at bay. And Cro-fab is far superior to what we used to have, as there is much less risk of anaphylactic shock and faster recovery time. But there are always risks involved and with some species of Crotalids exhibiting higher Neurotoxic properties in their venom due mainly in part to geographical ranges, the success of antivenoms is never absolute. I know Dr. Boyer and the rest of the VIPER team at the University of Arizona are trying everything that they can to produce more effective and safer antivenom, not just for snakes but for scorpions as well. Here is a pretty awesome read on Geographic differences in snake venom. Also the side stories are pretty interesting as well.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/07/080714092718.htm


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## Transylvania (Jul 21, 2011)

Wow, that's really interesting. I wish we did more venom research here; but we usually just extract and ship it places.


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## MD92 (Jul 25, 2011)

So what you're saying is...You could send me one of those little guys if I paid shipping and handling? :}

Even though I'm completely serious in that that would be awesome, what's more awesome is that little guy. I really like his colors, even if to others he'd be considered plain. Can't help but enjoy the simple things I guess.


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## Transylvania (Jul 25, 2011)

MD92 said:


> So what you're saying is...You could send me one of those little guys if I paid shipping and handling? :}
> 
> Even though I'm completely serious in that that would be awesome, what's more awesome is that little guy. I really like his colors, even if to others he'd be considered plain. Can't help but enjoy the simple things I guess.


I work with herpetoculturists who think that morphs are kinda silly; we appreciate the natural beauty of "normal" snakes. 

But I won't be able to send any to people over the internet; I was able to give one to my sister, but that was all that my boss allowed me to take. The last six need to be feeders, sadly.


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## MD92 (Jul 25, 2011)

Transylvania said:


> I work with herpetoculturists who think that morphs are kinda silly; we appreciate the natural beauty of "normal" snakes.
> 
> But I won't be able to send any to people over the internet; I was able to give one to my sister, but that was all that my boss allowed me to take. The last six need to be feeders, sadly.


Ah, how unfortunate. Poor little brothers and sisters. Well, at least you were able to save two!


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## kevin91172 (Jul 25, 2011)

pitbulllady said:


> Coral Snakes are nearly impossible to switch over to anything but other snakes.  That is why there are so few Coral Snakes in captivity; in fact, you're lucky to get one to eat, PERIOD, in captivity, so anyone who can get a Coral to eat a readily-available small snake feels very priviledged to have that particular Coral Snake.  Many Elapids are strictly ophiophagus and will not switch over to anything else. They'll starve before they eat any other prey item, live or not.  Scenting doen't work with all snakes.  I keep several species of _Nerodia_, and there are some species, like Brown Water Snakes, that just will not take a scented rodent, period.  Now, most Northern Water Snakes will very quickly take to scented and eventually unscented rodents, but not a Brown or a Green.
> 
> pitbulllady


I got one that eats FT fossorial snakes in captivity for 2 years,but the scented snake/rodent thing does not work on coral they like snakes and tooo small to force feed pinks,because they are delicate

---------- Post added at 09:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:15 PM ----------

My coral has a feeding response when I unlock lid,it eats great in captivity.
I am just Lucky......


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