# Phoneutria fera ( Brazilian wandering spider )



## Laurens (Jun 25, 2015)

its been a while since I posted anything, because of the lack of internet for the past 3 weeks.
The Phoneutria's are growing fast so I thought this would be the right moment to share some photo's !

Reactions: Like 5


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## BobGrill (Jun 25, 2015)

I'll admit,  if there was one spider that ever scared me, it would be this species. Still pretty though. 

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## The Snark (Jun 25, 2015)

Looks like some serious mouth ornaments there. Industrial grade combat oriented hunters.


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## REvan342 (Jun 26, 2015)

How in the hell did you aquire these.... And who in their right minds would import these hell spawns!,....

Still very cool tho.. Be careful.... One tag, and it's lights out.


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## klawfran3 (Jun 29, 2015)

Please tell me that fourth photo is of you holding a molt and you're not actually shaking hands with one of these...

Beautiful spider by the way. If they weren't so potent I would have a few, their striking colors are wonderful.


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## Chris LXXIX (Jun 29, 2015)

The stupidity of some Europeans sellers will never cease to amaze me. And here we read, we have tons of thread about handling, stupid YT videos, people honestly worried about the risk of bites or escapes, beginners with OW's, things that can lead to a total shut down of the hobby.

Now i assume you OP, know very well what you are doing, no doubts. But i've seen those for sale, to everyone, in the Internet, in Germany, East etc

Well, i don't get why don't have an OW as first T, then. Why complain so much for a _Pterinochilus murinus_, then? Those OW'S, compared to a _Phoneutria_, are "harmless". 

If someone can buy a _Phoneutria_ sp, a _Latrodectus_ sp, a _Sicarius_ sp, so easily with no problems behind a PC, using a credit card.. why bash that beginner who wanna so badly an _Haplopelma lividum _as first T, then?

I don't care if i sound like an heretic, being now in Arachnoboards, but hot spiders and hot _Mygalomorphae_ shouldn't been in the hobby.

The only reason there isn't _Atrax robustus_ available as well in the hobby it's only due to Australia gov. efforts. I bet my balls someone blame them.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Widow lover (Jun 29, 2015)

Very nice! I love my Nigriventor and Boliviensis how long have you kept yours?


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## Widow lover (Jun 29, 2015)

Here's one of mine having a snack


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## Laurens (Jun 29, 2015)

a lot of new messages in this topic, I will try to answere it in one message.
the fourth photo ? definedly not holding a live specimen its a molt.
I would never place myself in a dangerous position with these spiders, not with any other venomous creatures.
keeping the right distance with the right tools, respect and common sence its ''almost'' impossible to get bitten.
Then, the biggest problem isn't a seller but the way people selling it to anyone with or without experience or below or above the age of 21.
I agree that the buyer should be aware of the potential danger but as a good seller you won't sell before you'll have some decent sight on this person's responsibillity and 
experience in keeping Ctenids. then the last question about how long I keep these genus. I'm working with these spiders for almost 14 years.


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## Chris LXXIX (Jun 29, 2015)

Laurens said:


> a lot of new messages in this topic, I will try to answere it in one message.
> the fourth photo ? definedly not holding a live specimen its a molt.
> I would never place myself in a dangerous position with these spiders, not with any other venomous creatures.
> keeping the right distance with the right tools, respect and common sence its ''almost'' impossible to get bitten.
> ...


I understand your words. But my point is that since those "hot" spiders and _Mygalomorphae_ are available in the internet (i saw them, in a Germany online arachno-shop, with only a little disclaimer about their venom potency) everyone can buy them.

In the internet world there isn't such things like "advanced or experts only". Money matters. I know online sellers who give for free to new customers arboreal T's slings that aren't exactly the best for beginners.

In sum, if you can buy them online, others can as well. An incident with them will probably shut down the whole T's hobby in that nation (it doesn't matter, actually, that those hots aren't T's btw, don't think for a minute that the "system" will waste time and money for search among the mess of families/species/genus etc).

Also, the legal age of 18 or 21, means nothing if there isn't a specific law to follow. No one honestly knows what kind of animals someone could have in his/her home, especially if they are online bought inverts.

Do you think that someone will raise his hand and face consequences (you will need the money of Bill Gates or the Brunei ruler for pay) if an high defensive, potentially lethal venom, spider escapes and bite someone? Ah.

I'm not talking about you, or your country, now, please understand that 
I'm talking about how easy are they to be purchased online by everyone. Not a good thing imo.


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## The Snark (Jun 29, 2015)

Chris LXXIX said:


> I understand your words. But my point is that since those "hot" spiders and _Mygalomorphae_ are available in the internet (i saw them, in a Germany online arachno-shop, with only a little disclaimer about their venom potency) everyone can buy them.
> 
> In the internet world there isn't such things like "advanced or experts only". Money matters. I know online sellers who give for free to new customers arboreal T's slings that aren't exactly the best for beginners.
> 
> ...


So what is preferable? Dumping highly hazardous animals on the market, or a bunch of reality challenged, cracked ideology pumping dipsnake politicians deciding what we can and can't do according to the warped and twisted logic of one very vociferous influential baboons butt who learned most of his biology during his formative years from seeing his aunt chased around the back yard by a ?deadly? -some-sort-of-insect-???

Weigh this. An O. Hannah in the closet of every master bedroom, an escapee P Fera lurking somewhere, a swarm of African bees in the back yard along with a bad tempered horse for every household. The stupidity level of the planet would plummet in a week and maybe that wouldn't be such a bad thing.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Chris LXXIX (Jun 30, 2015)

The Snark said:


> So what is preferable? Dumping highly hazardous animals on the market, or a bunch of reality challenged, cracked ideology pumping dipsnake politicians deciding what we can and can't do according to the warped and twisted logic of one very vociferous influential baboons butt who learned most of his biology during his formative years from seeing his aunt chased around the back yard by a ?deadly? -some-sort-of-insect-???
> 
> Weigh this. An O. Hannah in the closet of every master bedroom, an escapee P Fera lurking somewhere, a swarm of African bees in the back yard along with a bad tempered horse for every household. The stupidity level of the planet would plummet in a week and maybe that wouldn't be such a bad thing.


I'm a sort of misanthrope and i can't stand the globalized ignorance of today, go figure politicians and all the idiots out there. But i care like everyone about the hobby and i view a ban as a lose for all, doesn't matter the nation where could happen. When i talk about a "ban", i don't mean a politician made one that no one, believe me i know, will like. But a limit. A limit decided by the T's/Arachno community for prevent huge serious stuff.

Watch this: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKFmBjocnhc

Only by pure finest luck, he doesn't even deserved, that guy (or his friends) wasn't bitten. Now imagine that same situation, but replace the T with a _Phoneutria_ sp. and a bite.
I think about Docs first question: "How it happenned? Bitten by a very dangerous spider that should live only in the Brazilian forest?" 

The rest is up to the lying mass media machine and their brainwashed zombie audience. Combine this with politicians, animal rights supporters etc = Bad News.

Not even going to mention if you live in a place, like mine, where everyone pays, with his/her taxes/pensions etc the sanity system and the cure for everyone.
Don't know about other nations, but here the gov. doesn't really want to throw away cash for stuff like that (cash is something that should always belong to their, and their friends, no limit pockets, according to reality here) and the Docs, imo, have better things to do than to fix someone else ego's mistakes.

I understand advanced keepers view, but those hots available in the online market, where everyone can buy, is working to undermine the hobby for me.

That guy of the video bought an OW T with no problems without have a clue of how to properly care (just check the poor level of substrate he prepared for a burrower).

Here in Italy, in 1991 or 1992 (i don't remember the year exactly) prior to the "2003 ALL T's ban" of course, that was a "No way, son. Sorry." for me, that beauty, heavy webber OW T (a _Chilobrachys_ sp.) 
And i had the money for that.

That's because those few shops who sold T's/Scorpions/Scolopendra, back then here, were owned only by the same expert people you can find here.

There's a difference with those who sold and ship "hots" to everyone. That was "Ethics", for me, let's say.


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## Fyrwulf (Jun 30, 2015)

I hate to be critical, but it seems you keep every hot spider you can get your hands on. I'm thinking maybe you like playing Russian Roulette, especially considering the 4th pic. If you're doing it for the thrill, take up sky diving with wingsuits instead.


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## BobGrill (Jun 30, 2015)

Fyrwulf said:


> I hate to be critical, but it seems you keep every hot spider you can get your hands on. I'm thinking maybe you like playing Russian Roulette, especially considering the 4th pic. If you're doing it for the thrill, take up sky diving with wingsuits instead.


It was a molt, they already said that...

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Reactions: Like 1


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## Curious jay (Jun 30, 2015)

@chrisxxl dunno bout the rest of Europe but in the UK of the three you listed, I believe only Sicarius can be obtained without a DWA license, if you research into the seller rather than berate them, I'm sure the vast majority will use the proper channels of sale.

I've seen many people enquire on Sicarius and majority of the time they're turned away.... Due to the fact they ask basic questions... Same reason I don't respond to most tarantula threads on here about "am I ready for *insert any OW with a bad rep* because the fact they have to ask the question or some of the basic questions they follow up with shows thy lack experience and if be wasting my time.


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## Fyrwulf (Jun 30, 2015)

BobGrill said:


> It was a molt, they already said that...
> 
> Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk


Only reason I believe that is because he's still alive.


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## Biollantefan54 (Jun 30, 2015)

It looks like a molt too. How many spiders do you know that will hold them selves outward if you grab a leg?

Reactions: Like 1 | Clarification Please 1


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## Chris LXXIX (Jun 30, 2015)

Curious jay said:


> @chrisxxl dunno bout the rest of Europe but in the UK of the three you listed, I believe only Sicarius can be obtained without a DWA license, if you research into the seller rather than berate them, I'm sure the vast majority will use the proper channels of sale.
> 
> I've seen many people enquire on Sicarius and majority of the time they're turned away.... Due to the fact they ask basic questions... Same reason I don't respond to most tarantula threads on here about "am I ready for *insert any OW with a bad rep* because the fact they have to ask the question or some of the basic questions they follow up with shows thy lack experience and if be wasting my time.


I'm talking only about SOME online, and online only, sellers. What "me" and "you" can buy, "others" (beginners, not full prepared enthusiasts, or the handling YT maniacs "hey look at me!" fools) can as well. No one is a "Semi-God" with a special right granted only for him/herself. Others have that right as well, no matter if we like that or not. Do you agree with me in that? Do you think that, in the online world, questions and ethics are more important (and for me they are) than cash and will prevail?

How can a seller, behind a PC, a tablet or a smartphone, judge the experience level of a customer? It's impossible.

I have nothing against a serious advanced/expert keeper who buy those hots species in first person from a trusted seller, but i highly dislike how they are/can be so available for everyone in the online market. I'm not talking about UK, now, and i know about DWA (not better like you, of course). I'm talking in general about online and Inter-European shipping. You pay, you receive the spider. That's how it works, you know that.

This, again, imo is working for undermine, and not help and increase, our hobby. Only for money and ego.. for what, at the end? Because someone feel the need to push the level more higher?

Sounds very, very hypocrite, for me then, to bash and discourage a beginner who wants "ONLY" (lol) an OW T's (harmless, at least, if compared to a _Phoneutria_ sp. or a _Sicarius hahni_) IF those hots spiders and _Mygalomorphae_ are available so easily in the internet (and not only on the internet, saw _Latrodectus_ sp. and _Macrothele_ sp. at Marbach, Germany btw) for those who wants them.

It's only a waste of time and words to talk about "ladder" and experience if things will end this way.

Then (i hope not, in all honesty) if sh.. will happens, i will laugh here reading the threads of those who will whine about bans, limitations or even the risk of lose their precious collection due to an incident with an "hot", because ended into the wrong hands.

Bite happens. Ban happens, people. Nuff said.


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