# Sicarius pairing... finally!



## buthus (Jan 15, 2010)

Its been a long haul waiting for my Sicarius to mature.  Started with 6 and ended up with 2 females and (luck!) 1 male.  Gave them a couple months now outside for a cold season.  Ready to mate!  
Wasnt completely sure if I had a male until his last molt ...kept wondering...does a male look like this?  ...then molt and bam! There he is...definitely a male. 
No response for the photo shoot, but they are doing just fine together.  Hopefully species is correct and all goes well.  
Wish em' luck and a happy, productive relationship!


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## Widowman10 (Jan 15, 2010)

way to go buthus :clap:

can't wait for updates!


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## What (Jan 15, 2010)

When do I get to borrow him?


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## Bjoern Elksnat (Jan 15, 2010)

Happy threesome (two males, one female):


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## buthus (Jan 15, 2010)

What said:


> When do I get to borrow him?


Thought about that... just wish I could witness them(mine) doin'the nasty and then I could be sure.  I DO question the maturity status of yours... she looked a bit small ...YET my other fem is a bit smaller and I _think_ shes mature. And... I gotta question species.

*BjörnE*... Ive seen a few pics here and there of females kept together... have you housed both sexes communally?


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## What (Jan 15, 2010)

I *think* mine is mature, I will have to get her out and molest her a bit, see if there is anything visible externally...

And I believe ours came in on the same import from Dave, but really, who knows if they are from the same locality or not. :wall:

Might still be worth it after you have yours cohabiting for awhile though, lets hope the males are as long lived as the females.


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## Bjoern Elksnat (Jan 15, 2010)

buthus said:


> *BjörnE*... Ive seen a few pics here and there of females kept together... have you housed both sexes communally?


I have not, because the males are not "horny" enough when they have everytime the females in near... like at humans 

But I kept the slings to subadults communally, have had never problems with this!

LG Björni


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## buthus (Jan 15, 2010)

What said:


> I *think* mine is mature, I will have to get her out and molest her a bit, see if there is anything visible externally...
> 
> And I believe ours came in on the same import from Dave, but really, who knows if they are from the same locality or not. :wall:
> 
> Might still be worth it after you have yours cohabiting for awhile though, lets hope the males are as long lived as the females.


Mine were not from Dave ...unfortunately I passed up that opportunity. 




> Might still be worth it after you have yours cohabiting for awhile though


 Thats what I think.  As for lifespan... I do believe the males live a good while ...thats why I put them outside last couple seasons for a while at a time ...slow things down.  Even when it warmed up during the day they NEVER took prey...yet they plumped out beautify and remained vibrant and very responsive.


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## buthus (Jan 15, 2010)

BjörnE said:


> I have not, because the males are not "horny" enough when they have everytime the females in near... like at humans
> 
> But I kept the slings to subadults communally, have had never problems with this!
> 
> LG Björni


Ok.  Ill pull him out in a week and put him with my other female ...let him hang with her for a spell. 
Couple more questions?
Time between pairing and sac production?
Time between sac production and hatching?  (i have info on this..but jeeze I cant find anything anymore ..)


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## Bjoern Elksnat (Jan 15, 2010)

Hi mate

without a piece of bark or something in your container you will wait for eternity for an eggsac. The females need a goable surface for this, they cannot climb glass, as you know.

When it goes well, after mating they produce 2 to 4 month later an eggsac, maybe faster... their metabolism is usually slowly, in eatin and building a sac, too. You can a little bit manipulation with higher temperature... but not worth to speak over it....

They hatch in normal way, about 4 to 5 weeks after build the sac, depending on temperature in the container.

LG Björni


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## buthus (Jan 15, 2010)

Good info. Thanks!


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## Venom (Jan 15, 2010)

Well done Buthus! :clap::clap::clap:

I hope you get some healthy ( and numerous ) little toxic spideys.


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## Moltar (Jan 16, 2010)

:clap::clap::clap: Fantastic! :clap::clap::clap:


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## buthus (Jan 16, 2010)

Moltar said:


> :clap::clap::clap: Fantastic! :clap::clap::clap:


Venom, Moltar ...surely appreciate the enthusiastic applause 'n support!  *BUT* i do believe its a bit premature for multiple clappy smiles. Heck.._now_ IF I DO get an eggsac out of one of the pairings, I will feel cheated if I dont get something like _Super Fantastic!!_ with like two rows of clappy smiles and.. maybe one or more of those dancing monkeys.


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## Venom (Jan 16, 2010)

buthus said:


> Venom, Moltar ...surely appreciate the enthusiastic applause 'n support!  *BUT* i do believe its a bit premature for multiple clappy smiles. Heck.._now_ IF I DO get an eggsac out of one of the pairings, I will feel cheated if I dont get something like _Super Fantastic!!_ with like two rows of clappy smiles and.. maybe one or more of those dancing monkeys.


ROFL! Hey, you've got it. Bring on the slings!


Has anyone else bred these yet? I know the Euros have, but I'm think few --if, indeed, any--in the 'States have ever bred Sicarius spp.


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## Bjoern Elksnat (Jan 16, 2010)

Where is the problem to breed `em??

Take a male, take a female, and let`s go! ;-)

Or are they hard available in the US?

In Germany they are standard bred true spiders....


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## Venom (Jan 16, 2010)

Well, we only just recently GOT them in our hobby!


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## buthus (Jan 17, 2010)

BjörnE said:


> Where is the problem to breed `em??
> 
> Take a male, take a female, and let`s go! ;-)
> 
> ...


From what I understand, our governments differ greatly when it comes to legalities of international shipping of animals and exotics ...not to mention Int. treaties such as CITES.  You guys have had far easier/greater access to exotics from around the world. 


As for whether Sicarius has been successfully bred within the US ...I have no clue.  I dont remember seeing anything posted on the hobby boards ...but that dont mean that much.


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## What (Jan 18, 2010)

I have heard that Frank Somma had a sac produced in captivity... but... he didnt respond to any attempts I made at calling him and I havent heard anything more about it.


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## Moltar (Jan 20, 2010)

buthus said:


> Venom, Moltar ...surely appreciate the enthusiastic applause 'n support!  *BUT* i do believe its a bit premature for multiple clappy smiles. Heck.._now_ IF I DO get an eggsac out of one of the pairings, I will feel cheated if I dont get something like _Super Fantastic!!_ with like two rows of clappy smiles and.. maybe one or more of those dancing monkeys.


You've done more with breeding this species that any other American (that i've heard of on AB, anyway) so i'm giving you kudos whether you like it or not!

And oh yeah... good luck with the actual gettin' of dem lil slings.


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## pouchedrat (Jan 21, 2010)

Those're going to be some nasty little babies, lol.  good luck!  I find the species absolutely fascinating, if not scary.


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## paul fleming (Jan 22, 2010)

Dan over here has just bred Sicarius terrosus.
He is on all our forums over here and is also one of our pokie experts.
I think that he is the first in the UK to breed these.
May be worth PM'ing him 
Paul
http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/spiders-inverts/438887-sicarius-terrosus-first-uk-captive.html


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## buthus (Jan 23, 2010)

paul fleming said:


> Dan over here has just bred Sicarius terrosus.
> He is on all our forums over here and is also one of our pokie experts.
> I think that he is the first in the UK to breed these.
> May be worth PM'ing him
> ...


Very cool! 

As for a PM to me regarding species...
Not sure ...funny brain fart but I do believe these were from Peru.  Very likely _Sicarius terrosus _...but there are a bunch of species down that way and ive only read ID descriptions comparing hahni vs terrosus which are from worlds apart but do look pretty much the same at least at a glance.


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## whites inverts (Jan 24, 2010)

:clap: OMG! Well done! :worship: I have been wanting some of these forever  : ) If anything comes out of these pairings, I have got to get some of those slings.lol.  Good luck on gettin' some nice healthy babies


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## paul fleming (Jan 24, 2010)

I have a Sicarius hahni and terrosus are almost on a par for venom strengh.
In other words,if you do get one,it could kill you quite easily,even as a sling.
I say go for it and enjoy but I would not handle these beasts (best leave that to Buthus )
Be careful guys


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## buthus (Jan 28, 2010)

paul fleming said:


> (best leave that to Buthus )
> Be careful guys


This isnt the "2nd" time a statement has been posted like this ...wello..yikes. Id like everyone to understand that I dont sit around handling my spiders. Handling is dangerous to the spiders ...oils, clumsiness etc... ..anyway I'd rather people understand that I posted my occasional "foolery" because i thought it relevant to our(we in the "hobby") understanding things a bit better regarding species behavior while in captivity ...not for spider dumb hobby "fame".  
Please stop the sarcastic/humorous reference.


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## buthus (Jan 29, 2010)

buthus said:


> This isnt the "2nd" time a statement has been posted like this ...wello..yikes. Id like everyone to understand that I dont sit around handling my spiders. Handling is dangerous to the spiders ...oils, clumsiness etc... ..anyway I'd rather people understand that I posted my occasional "foolery" because i thought it relevant to our(we in the "hobby") understanding things a bit better regarding species behavior while in captivity ...not for spider dumb hobby "fame".
> Please stop the sarcastic/humorous reference.


  Man...i was in a serious mood when i typed that ... meant to convey more of a humorous tone with a little seriousness.  So..here's some smiles: :5:


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## buthus (Feb 13, 2010)

Badboy...SEE! shat happens! 
Ok! 2nd mate attempt  (edit:different fem) ...wow...yep!  About 4 days living ok with eachother and then bam! Male takes down the girl ...a few hrs after I dug around the sand to see how the pair were doing.  My disturbance caused the problem?...maybe, but with  the first pairing, there were many check-ups and obviously no problems such as this.   
Fun! :clap:


















:?
Species problem? Vikings didnt make the stupidbowl? Fem not mature?  Ahhh!...to only be an expert on spiders and have invert mind reading powers. 
BTW... he was less one leg ...she DID put up a fight...so it seems.


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## Widowman10 (Feb 14, 2010)

well that sucks...


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## Hamburglar (Feb 14, 2010)

That does suck...  Did you notice anything that looked promising before he took her?  Such a shame... fascinating spiders.


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## buthus (Feb 14, 2010)

Hamburglar said:


> That does suck...  Did you notice anything that looked promising before he took her?  Such a shame... fascinating spiders.


 Nope, no sexual activity while under observation.


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## ophiophagus (Feb 20, 2010)

Where did you get these spiders Buthus? I've never seen them for sale. They are amazing! I would love to get some. And great job on at least making the attemp at breeding. We'll catch up to those Germans one day:clap:


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## What (Mar 13, 2010)

As buthus needed a break from bugs for a bit, he passed off a few things to me, these included.

I cooled down the male and my female last night, and introduced them around 1pm today. The results are clearly visible below. 





I found it interesting that the male pushed the female completely over on her back(the top of her abdomen was pressed into the sand), I havent seen that in any other spiders. The mating was also surprisingly short, only lasting about 15 minutes total. 

Right now I have two females and one male in my care, the female buthus previously mated with that male looks *very* gravid and will hopefully produce a sac any day now... I will update when anything interesting happens, I plan to reintroduce my female with the male sometime over the next few days to see if they will mate again... For those that are interested, a couple more photos can be seen on my flickr which is linked in my signature.

I will say right now, so I am not inundated with PMs, that any slings resulting from these pairings will not be sold by me, nor will I have any part in selling them... These spiders are not all that dangerous, but still... I prefer to err on the side of caution when it comes to my spiders.


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## ophiophagus (Mar 13, 2010)

Awesome work man:worship: We need more of these in the US. Particularly so I can buy some. I understand you are not selling these offspring. So just as a general statement. When is someone going to have some of these amazing spiders for sale in the US??? I've been searching with no luck


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## GartenSpinnen (Mar 13, 2010)

Awesome! That is insane how how the male pushes the female down like that. I hope you get a good sac out of them! No worries... I don't want ANY!


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## syndicate (Mar 13, 2010)

ophiophagus said:


> When is someone going to have some of these amazing spiders for sale in the US??


Watch out for dealers bringing imports in from Chili and you might get lucky..
-Chris


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## buthus (Mar 14, 2010)

> Where did you get these spiders Buthus?


Got these via Todd Gearheart some time ago.  Order was originally for some widows to be collected from the same area, but that collection went askew ..so, I got these instead. ...glad, actually ...turned out all good. 





Kevin...you the man.  Confident..because my spidies are in your hands bro


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