# Bumblebee centipede



## CHLee (Mar 12, 2018)

Sulawesi island, Indonesia

Reactions: Like 4 | Love 6


----------



## LawnShrimp (Mar 12, 2018)

One of my favorite morph/species, absolutely stunning. Hopefully the taxonomy gets sorted out for these soon


----------



## Ratmosphere (Mar 13, 2018)

Very beautiful colors, I wonder what species name they come up with.


----------



## kermitdsk (Mar 13, 2018)

Did you made the pictures? And do you have some information?
A few days earlier I saw nearly same looking species for sale, just with blue legs and from the Philippines.
That was the most spectular colered species I have ever seen.


----------



## LawnShrimp (Mar 13, 2018)

kermitdsk said:


> Did you made the pictures? And do you have some information?
> A few days earlier I saw nearly same looking species for sale, just with blue legs and from the Philippines.
> That was the most spectular colered species I have ever seen.


The Philippine blue and orange ones are aquatic. There are videos of them resting in streams, which is just amazing.

Reactions: Informative 1 | Clarification Please 1


----------



## kermitdsk (Mar 14, 2018)

LawnShrimp said:


> The Philippine blue and orange ones are aquatic. There are videos of them resting in streams, which is just amazing.


How can you say that? Where you have that information from? We already don't no which species the centipede in this thread is and we also don't know which species the centipede from the Philippines is which I have seen.
If you have more information please share it with us.


----------



## Dennis Nedry (Mar 14, 2018)

kermitdsk said:


> How can you say that? Where you have that information from? We already don't no which species the centipede in this thread is and we also don't know which species the centipede from the Philippines is which I have seen.
> If you have more information please share it with us.


I've seen the video on Facebook, it's of a large centipede curled up on the bottom of a stream. It's not dead and it can escape perfectly fine but it shows no stress underwater. I'll have to dig it up

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## LawnShrimp (Mar 14, 2018)

kermitdsk said:


> How can you say that? Where you have that information from? We already don't no which species the centipede in this thread is and we also don't know which species the centipede from the Philippines is which I have seen.
> If you have more information please share it with us.


There is a video on Instagram of a large, dark blue centipede (not the striped morph but the man who owns them collects both) motionless at the bottom of a fast stream. He calls them "water centipedes" or "Philippine Mint Legs". Other people have reported seeing blue, swimming centipedes in the Philippines, mainly the highlands of Negros Island. They aren't necessarily aquatic, more like semi-aquatic as no centipede can breathe underwater but those certainly seem to hide and maybe, like S. cataracta, hunt underwater.

The species that this thread is about was previously called S. s. piceoflava and that may still be the official name for this type but there will be taxonomic revisions or corrections soon so it is best to leave it unnamed for now. I don't think they are too closely related to the Philippine ones judging by different habits (videos show these can't swim well) and general body shape differences, but I've learned never to say anything based on conjecture when it comes to myriapod taxonomy.


----------



## CHLee (Mar 15, 2018)

LawnShrimp said:


> There is a video on Instagram of a large, dark blue centipede (not the striped morph but the man who owns them collects both) motionless at the bottom of a fast stream. He calls them "water centipedes" or "Philippine Mint Legs". Other people have reported seeing blue, swimming centipedes in the Philippines, mainly the highlands of Negros Island. They aren't necessarily aquatic, more like semi-aquatic as no centipede can breathe underwater but those certainly seem to hide and maybe, like S. cataracta, hunt underwater.
> 
> The species that this thread is about was previously called S. s. piceoflava and that may still be the official name for this type but there will be taxonomic revisions or corrections soon so it is best to leave it unnamed for now. I don't think they are too closely related to the Philippine ones judging by different habits (videos show these can't swim well) and general body shape differences, but I've learned never to say anything based on conjecture when it comes to myriapod taxonomy.


Stop with the misinformation, many centipedes will use water as a hide when close enough, I have heros and dehaani that have curled up in the water bowl underwater to rest. Many of the larger specimens can last up to 20 minutes fully active while submerged.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Informative 1


----------



## Dennis Nedry (Mar 15, 2018)

CHLee said:


> Stop with the misinformation, many centipedes will use water as a hide when close enough, I have heros and dehaani that have curled up in the water bowl underwater to rest. Many of the larger specimens can last up to 20 minutes fully active while submerged.


That is true, but these Philippino species seem to do it more often and enter deeper and faster moving streams than dehaani. They are in an area that has monsoons quite often so even if they didn't actively submerge they'd still probably get their burrows flooded quite often during the wet season, maybe not so much for heros' environment though


----------



## LawnShrimp (Mar 15, 2018)

CHLee said:


> Stop with the misinformation, many centipedes will use water as a hide when close enough, I have heros and dehaani that have curled up in the water bowl underwater to rest. Many of the larger specimens can last up to 20 minutes fully active while submerged.


That wasn't intentionally misinformation. I myself have centipedes that enter their water bowls and rest for long periods. I've sexed 'pedes using water and can confirm that many species not found by water are able to swim and be active underwater for a long time. I don't doubt that other species would take advantage of water to hide. But in the wild, I don't think many species would actively enter water as much as the one I saw in that video. Even if it was placed there or chased into the water, it was in a position that seemed to suggest it was comfortable in even fast-flowing water. From other photos and anecdotal evidence it seems their habitat is by creeks and streams. The man who collects these 'pedes in the wild and probably has a great deal of experience with them calls them water centipedes.

But, I could be wrong. Anything based on only observations made from others' pictures and video isn't the same as seeing the centipede or the habitat yourself. I'm in no position to make solid statements on things I haven't experienced, these are just guesses based on very little information.


----------



## kermitdsk (Mar 15, 2018)

LawnShrimp said:


> There is a video on Instagram of a large, dark blue centipede (not the striped morph but the man who owns them collects both) motionless at the bottom of a fast stream. He calls them "water centipedes" or "Philippine Mint Legs". Other people have reported seeing blue, swimming centipedes in the Philippines, mainly the highlands of Negros Island. They aren't necessarily aquatic, more like semi-aquatic as no centipede can breathe underwater but those certainly seem to hide and maybe, like S. cataracta, hunt underwater.


I unfortunately don't know the video but why you mean it is the same Centipede like in this thread? Just because same colour? The centipede I was talking about was from Luzon, I know nothing about it just looking same color with blue legs.


LawnShrimp said:


> The species that this thread is about was previously called S. s. piceoflava and that may still be the official name for this type but there will be taxonomic revisions or corrections soon so it is best to leave it unnamed for now. I don't think they are too closely related to the Philippine ones judging by different habits (videos show these can't swim well) and general body shape differences, but I've learned never to say anything based on conjecture when it comes to myriapod taxonomy.


 Scolopendra subspinipes piceoflava is since 2012 Scolopendra subspinipes. And CHLee didn't write anything about the species, so why you guess it's Scolopendra subspinipes piceoflava?


Dennis Nedry said:


> That is true, but these Philippino species seem to do it more often and enter deeper and faster moving streams than dehaani. They are in an area that has monsoons quite often so even if they didn't actively submerge they'd still probably get their burrows flooded quite often during the wet season, maybe not so much for heros' environment though





LawnShrimp said:


> That wasn't intentionally misinformation. I myself have centipedes that enter their water bowls and rest for long periods. I've sexed 'pedes using water and can confirm that many species not found by water are able to swim and be active underwater for a long time. I don't doubt that other species would take advantage of water to hide. But in the wild, I don't think many species would actively enter water as much as the one I saw in that video. Even if it was placed there or chased into the water, it was in a position that seemed to suggest it was comfortable in even fast-flowing water. From other photos and anecdotal evidence it seems their habitat is by creeks and streams. The man who collects these 'pedes in the wild and probably has a great deal of experience with them calls them water centipedes.
> 
> But, I could be wrong. Anything based on only observations made from others' pictures and video isn't the same as seeing the centipede or the habitat yourself. I'm in no position to make solid statements on things I haven't experienced, these are just guesses based on very little information.


Sorry guys and don't be mad at me but these are just assumptions based on pictures and videos and it's just guesses that actually of no importance. You are experienced enough to know that.

@CHLee you posted the pictures so I guess you keep these centipedes!? Do you have some information about that centipede?


----------



## LawnShrimp (Mar 15, 2018)

kermitdsk said:


> I unfortunately don't know the video but why you mean it is the same Centipede like in this thread? Just because same colour? The centipede I was talking about was from Luzon, I know nothing about it just looking same color with blue legs.
> Scolopendra subspinipes piceoflava is since 2012 Scolopendra subspinipes. And CHLee didn't write anything about the species, so why you guess it's Scolopendra subspinipes piceoflava?


I am not trying to imply that this centipede is the same as anything. Some people have called this form S. s. piceoflava, but the author of this post and I *do not* currently use that name as it is outdated and likely incorrect. I just wanted to give a name that you could use to look up more information about it even if the name is incorrect. I agree with both of you that this is very likely something else entirely.


kermitdsk said:


> I unfortunately don't know the video but why you mean it is the same Centipede like in this thread? Just because same colour? The centipede I was talking about was from Luzon, I know nothing about it just looking same color with blue legs.


 The ones from the Philippines are *certainly not the same*. (I am fully aware that color has little value when identifying species.) The reason I brought up that fact about the Philippine centipede was because you mentioned a centipede with stripes and blue legs that sounds very much like one that I have seen pictures of that also lives in the Philippines. I also know that some centipedes of that type were recently imported to Europe, which leads me to believe the centipede you saw for sale was the one I have seen pictures of. 


kermitdsk said:


> Sorry guys and don't be mad at me but these are just assumptions based on pictures and videos and it's just guesses that actually of no importance. You are experienced enough to know that.


It's entirely possible I'm wrong about everything.


----------



## LawnShrimp (Mar 15, 2018)

kermitdsk said:


> Scolopendra subspinipes piceoflava is since 2012 Scolopendra subspinipes. And CHLee didn't write anything about the species, so why you guess it's Scolopendra subspinipes piceoflava?


To quote the 2012 study:

"_Scolopendra subspinipes piceoflava differs from Scolopendra subspinipes s. str. only in its colour as it is described with a reddish brown head capsule and first tergites, while the other tergites are dark brown with a lighter (or even yellowish) caudal border. In centipede taxonomy, colouration is not a reliable scientific character for distinguishing a species._"

Funny they mention the last bit. But the coloration, antennomere count (17-18), and distribution of Indonesia described in the paper all check out. This paper reassigned piceoflava to S. subspinipes. Next, there was a 2016 article that redescribed S. s. piceoflava which states:

"_Based on examination of the syntypes, we corroborate the assignment of this nominal subspecies to the S. subspinipes group. Some morphological characters that appear, however, not to be identical with S. subspinipes are the sharpness and length of the coxopleural process, which bears one or two strong apical spines, the ratio of ultimate leg podomeres, and the colouration pattern on the tergites that is clearly distinct from other geographical populations of S. subspinipes (the posterior part of the tergites exhibiting a yellowish colouration). However, without additional material and lacking molecular data with which to test relationships among morphological similar species, we tentatively accept S. subspinipes piceoflava as a junior synonym of S. subspinipes as proposed by Kronmüller (2012)_."

(Both articles have detailed anatomical photos that match this picture.)

Now I'm no taxonomist, and I can't say if piceoflava is not a subspecies, a subspinipes subspecies, or its own species, but since 2016 S. s. piceoflava is currently the accepted name for this type. Some choose not to give it that name or any name which I have no problem with. I fully agree with the author of this post that a review of this type is necessary and may lead to it becoming its own species.

Reactions: Informative 1


----------



## CHLee (Mar 15, 2018)

LawnShrimp said:


> To quote the 2012 study:
> 
> "_Scolopendra subspinipes piceoflava differs from Scolopendra subspinipes s. str. only in its colour as it is described with a reddish brown head capsule and first tergites, while the other tergites are dark brown with a lighter (or even yellowish) caudal border. In centipede taxonomy, colouration is not a reliable scientific character for distinguishing a species._"
> 
> ...


Piceoflava is a junior synonym, meaning s subspinipes has priority over it, so no, you shouldn’t be calling it piceoflava.

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## Staehilomyces (Mar 15, 2018)

I've noticed these pedes popping up on several IG accounts recently. Was there a recent import or something?

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## NYAN (Mar 15, 2018)

Staehilomyces said:


> I've noticed these pedes popping up on several IG accounts recently. Was there a recent import or something?


I wonder the same thing, just this week it seems.


----------



## micheldied (Mar 16, 2018)

Staehilomyces said:


> I've noticed these pedes popping up on several IG accounts recently. Was there a recent import or something?


They're being exported from Indonesia. Anyone in the US who has them got them illegally, or from someone who got them illegally.


----------



## micheldied (Mar 16, 2018)

LawnShrimp said:


> That wasn't intentionally misinformation. I myself have centipedes that enter their water bowls and rest for long periods. I've sexed 'pedes using water and can confirm that many species not found by water are able to swim and be active underwater for a long time. I don't doubt that other species would take advantage of water to hide. But in the wild, I don't think many species would actively enter water as much as the one I saw in that video. Even if it was placed there or chased into the water, it was in a position that seemed to suggest it was comfortable in even fast-flowing water. From other photos and anecdotal evidence it seems their habitat is by creeks and streams. The man who collects these 'pedes in the wild and probably has a great deal of experience with them calls them water centipedes.
> 
> But, I could be wrong. Anything based on only observations made from others' pictures and video isn't the same as seeing the centipede or the habitat yourself. I'm in no position to make solid statements on things I haven't experienced, these are just guesses based on very little information.


You just said yourself that many other centipedes will hide in and are comfortable in water. I've had mutilans hide in water and catch fish from cups of water, but mutilans aren't aquatic.

The Philippino who collects and sells them never called them aquatic or mentioned them being aquatic when he started selling them a year ago. For a few months last year he was basically begging me to buy them from him, and not once did he say they're aquatic. Only very recently has he started saying they're aquatic, IMO likely because they aren't selling well. Apart from what he tells you, how do you know they're found in or near streams and display aquatic behavior in the wild?

Reactions: Informative 2


----------



## Staehilomyces (Mar 16, 2018)

The centipede whisperer (Mastigoproctus) has them. Presumably he got them illegally then?

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## micheldied (Mar 16, 2018)

Staehilomyces said:


> The centipede whisperer (Mastigoproctus) has them. Presumably he got them illegally then?


He got them from someone else I believe he said.


----------



## CHLee (Mar 16, 2018)

LawnShrimp said:


> That wasn't intentionally misinformation. I myself have centipedes that enter their water bowls and rest for long periods. I've sexed 'pedes using water and can confirm that many species not found by water are able to swim and be active underwater for a long time. I don't doubt that other species would take advantage of water to hide. But in the wild, I don't think many species would actively enter water as much as the one I saw in that video. Even if it was placed there or chased into the water, it was in a position that seemed to suggest it was comfortable in even fast-flowing water. From other photos and anecdotal evidence it seems their habitat is by creeks and streams. The man who collects these 'pedes in the wild and probably has a great deal of experience with them calls them water centipedes.
> 
> But, I could be wrong. Anything based on only observations made from others' pictures and video isn't the same as seeing the centipede or the habitat yourself. I'm in no position to make solid statements on things I haven't experienced, these are just guesses based on very little information.


When was cataracta even reported to hunt underwater I would like to know, all the reports were that it was suspected to to that, basically the H gigas of the centipede world
Like mich said, the guy has been trying to sell them off for the past 2 years and all of a sudden they hide underwater and swim? He tried offering me some before as well and never mentioned these traits. 
Have you seen a centipede curled up in a tight space, submerge it and it won’t move, heck one of my subspinipes was curled up on a dry leaf and I put the leaf underwater and it stayed in the same position without moving


----------



## kermitdsk (Mar 16, 2018)

CHLee said:


> When was cataracta even reported to hunt underwater I would like to know, all the reports were that it was suspected to to that, basically the H gigas of the centipede world
> Like mich said, the guy has been trying to sell them off for the past 2 years and all of a sudden they hide underwater and swim? He tried offering me some before as well and never mentioned these traits.
> Have you seen a centipede curled up in a tight space, submerge it and it won’t move, heck one of my subspinipes was curled up on a dry leaf and I put the leaf underwater and it stayed in the same position without moving


I was always critical about that and I never believed there is an amphibic centipede. So it's interesting to hear that.


----------



## LawnShrimp (Mar 16, 2018)

CHLee said:


> When was cataracta even reported to hunt underwater I would like to know, all the reports were that it was suspected to to that, basically the H gigas of the centipede world
> Like mich said, the guy has been trying to sell them off for the past 2 years and all of a sudden they hide underwater and swim? He tried offering me some before as well and never mentioned these traits.
> Have you seen a centipede curled up in a tight space, submerge it and it won’t move, heck one of my subspinipes was curled up on a dry leaf and I put the leaf underwater and it stayed in the same position without moving


News to me about the Philippine species and the guy who sells them. Thanks to both of you for letting me know that. It's a shame that, as you said, he may be giving out misinformation about them in order to sell them. 

And yes, I am fully aware that most centipedes can handle being in water quite well, whether at rest or swimming.


----------



## Willuminati (Mar 22, 2018)

I have some


----------



## the league of shadows (Mar 27, 2018)

LawnShrimp said:


> One of my favorite morph/species, absolutely stunning. Hopefully the taxonomy gets sorted out for these soon


Wow...i want it.


----------



## the league of shadows (Mar 27, 2018)

Willuminati said:


> I have some


I would love to buy some.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Andrew101 (Mar 27, 2018)

Me and my friend were talking about the Philippine mint legs that are supposedly "aquatic". I'm told that it's a really hard centipede to keep cause they live really close to the water and they need their enclosure to have small puddles of water, kinda like the shoreline to a stream or else they won't do well. I've also seen pictures of people keeping them in facebook where they keep them in very moist setups like the how it would be close to the stream which kinda makes me think that they do probably have some kind of life with the water.

For the Sulawesi sp, I've heard there's only a few individuals in the States and I got to see them in person at a reptile expo. Really cool looking centipedes and also really really fast too. Even though it wasn't for sale, a Chinese foreigner bought it for $400 and it was really hard to believe he would actually buy something that is probably not described yet as I can find no information about these pedes from Sualwesi.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## the league of shadows (Mar 27, 2018)

Andrew101 said:


> Me and my friend were talking about the Philippine mint legs that are supposedly "aquatic". I'm told that it's a really hard centipede to keep cause they live really close to the water and they need their enclosure to have small puddles of water, kinda like the shoreline to a stream or else they won't do well. I've also seen pictures of people keeping them in facebook where they keep them in very moist setups like the how it would be close to the stream which kinda makes me think that they do probably have some kind of life with the water.
> 
> For the Sulawesi sp, I've heard there's only a few individuals in the States and I got to see them in person at a reptile expo. Really cool looking centipedes and also really really fast too. Even though it wasn't for sale, a Chinese foreigner bought it for $400 and it was really hard to believe he would actually buy something that is probably not described yet as I can find no information about these pedes from Sualwesi.


Wow thats interesting and wow $400


----------



## Andrew101 (Mar 27, 2018)

the league of shadows said:


> Wow thats interesting and wow $400


Tell me about it, that's equally as much as a scolopendra gigantea. If we get more coming in the States somehow, hopefully someone figures out how to breed them cause these are really awesome looking pedes.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Rhysandfish (Mar 27, 2018)

Andrew101 said:


> Tell me about it, that's equally as much as a scolopendra gigantea. If we get more coming in the States somehow, hopefully someone figures out how to breed them cause these are really awesome looking pedes.


I know someone attempting pairings but no success for now. I wish him luck as they’re amazing.

Reactions: Agree 3


----------



## CHLee (Mar 27, 2018)

Andrew101 said:


> Me and my friend were talking about the Philippine mint legs that are supposedly "aquatic". I'm told that it's a really hard centipede to keep cause they live really close to the water and they need their enclosure to have small puddles of water, kinda like the shoreline to a stream or else they won't do well. I've also seen pictures of people keeping them in facebook where they keep them in very moist setups like the how it would be close to the stream which kinda makes me think that they do probably have some kind of life with the water.
> 
> For the Sulawesi sp, I've heard there's only a few individuals in the States and I got to see them in person at a reptile expo. Really cool looking centipedes and also really really fast too. Even though it wasn't for sale, a Chinese foreigner bought it for $400 and it was really hard to believe he would actually buy something that is probably not described yet as I can find no information about these pedes from Sualwesi.


No information online? There’s at least two papers with it one in 2010 another in 2016, general consensus was that they’re subspinipes for the time being.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## Andrew101 (Mar 27, 2018)

CHLee said:


> No information online? There’s at least two papers with it one in 2010 another in 2016, general consensus was that they’re subspinipes for the time being.


I chose my choice of words wrongly sorry, I meant there's no information about their life style. I talked to the person who sold the sulawesi and he told me that it doesn't burrow at all, it just hides under the cork bark. With the legs being long we theorized that it's possibly arboreal which is a possibility since he showed me a video of the pede crawling down a tree at a amazing speed with ease so we concluded it's possibly semi arboreal due to the swiftness of it crawling on the tree. I'm no expert but I'm very passionate about the hobby so I try to gain any knowledge when found


----------



## Andrew101 (Mar 27, 2018)

Rhysandfish said:


> I know someone attempting pairings but no success for now. I wish him luck as they’re amazing.


I think I may know who you're talking about lol. Wish there's more information about their lifestyle cause they're really cool looking centipedes, it's interesting to me that a lot of the arthropods on Sulawesi have yellow coloration making me wonder what's the environment like other than knowing it as a rain forest in Asia.


----------



## CHLee (Mar 27, 2018)

Andrew101 said:


> I chose my choice of words wrongly sorry, I meant there's no information about their life style. I talked to the person who sold the sulawesi and he told me that it doesn't burrow at all, it just hides under the cork bark. With the legs being long we theorized that it's possibly arboreal which is a possibility since he showed me a video of the pede crawling down a tree at a amazing speed with ease so we concluded it's possibly semi arboreal due to the swiftness of it crawling on the tree. I'm no expert but I'm very passionate about the hobby so I try to gain any knowledge when found


All of mine burrow, they’re not aboreal, I’ve seen their habitat and in situ specimens. They like to lie on large boulders at night

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


----------



## Andrew101 (Mar 27, 2018)

CHLee said:


> All of mine burrow, they’re not aboreal, I’ve seen their habitat and in situ specimens. They like to lie on large boulders at night


That's good to know! Do they live mostly on these rock formations or boulders? I would love to know more details of the habitat they live in.


----------



## Rhysandfish (Mar 27, 2018)

Andrew101 said:


> I think I may know who you're talking about lol. Wish there's more information about their lifestyle cause they're really cool looking centipedes, it's interesting to me that a lot of the arthropods on Sulawesi have yellow coloration making me wonder what's the environment like other than knowing it as a rain forest in Asia.


We’re definitely talking about the same guy. I didn’t know you picked one up. Congrats.


----------



## Andrew101 (Mar 27, 2018)

Rhysandfish said:


> We’re definitely talking about the same guy. I didn’t know you picked one up. Congrats.


I don't own one sadly, I've only gotten a chance to handle one in person

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Willuminati (Mar 27, 2018)

Andrew101 said:


> I don't own one sadly, I've only gotten a chance to handle one in person


You handled my pede? Who was you?!?


----------



## NYAN (Mar 27, 2018)

I wish I could go to the expo but It’s like 3-4 hours away. I’ll be at the repticon next month though.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Rhysandfish (Mar 27, 2018)

NYAN said:


> I wish I could go to the expo but It’s like 3-4 hours away. I’ll be at the repticon next month though.


Lucky. I’m 12+ hours away


----------



## Andrew101 (Mar 28, 2018)

.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------

