# Who Would Win Then??



## FortCooper1982 (May 18, 2005)

Hello all,
       who do you all think would win a fight between Androctonus bicolor and pandinus imperator, i know the very nasty venom bicolor has but just cant see it gettihg past the power house that is imperator, these are my two fav scorps, thought i'd put it to the board. W :? hat do ya think????


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## cacoseraph (May 18, 2005)

i personally think the venoms would be almost equal, versus an arachno-adversary... so then it's a smaller and faster A.b vs. Sherman Tank P.imp

and i think Superman would beat Batman, but i still think batman is cooler.... for the record


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## carpe scorpio (May 18, 2005)

FortCooper1982 said:
			
		

> Hello all,
> who do you all think would win a fight between Androctonus bicolor and pandinus imperator, i know the very nasty venom bicolor has but just cant see it gettihg past the power house that is imperator, these are my two fav scorps, thought i'd put it to the board. W :? hat do ya think????


Given the geographical locations involved, I find such an occurance highly unlikely.   All kidding aside, the only time I have ever seen scorpions fight was when I first started keeping them, and that was a result of stupidity/ignorance on my part.


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## FortCooper1982 (May 18, 2005)

carpe scorpio said:
			
		

> Given the geographical locations involved, I find such an occurance highly unlikely.   All kidding aside, the only time I have ever seen scorpions fight was when I first started keeping them, and that was a result of stupidity/ignorance on my part.


I know they would never meet, just think these too are really cool, always debate with my mates who would come out on top, i personaly think emp is too strong, your thoughts would be a big help to shut them up!!!!


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## carpe scorpio (May 18, 2005)

FortCooper1982 said:
			
		

> I know they would never meet, just think these too are really cool, always debate with my mates who would come out on top, i personaly think emp is too strong, your thoughts would be a big help to shut them up!!!!


I think Pandinus would crush/kill/eat all other scorpions.


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## Predator (May 18, 2005)

That would be a tough call for me.  The emp has some amazing crushing power.  I would guess the emp would win if he was agressive enough.  There was only one time my emperor has ever shown aggression and that was when I fed him a praying mantis.  I was shocked at the fact he darted a foot across the tank and tackled the mantis like it was a small cricket.  He loves his mantis food.


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## FortCooper1982 (May 18, 2005)

Predator said:
			
		

> That would be a tough call for me.  The emp has some amazing crushing power.  I would guess the emp would win if he was agressive enough.  There was only one time my emperor has ever shown aggression and that was when I fed him a praying mantis.  I was shocked at the fact he darted a foot across the tank and tackled the mantis like it was a small cricket.  He loves his mantis food.



Well cool, i get a little bored with feeding crickets all the time (think emp deos to) would like to try some different foods to test hes strength, mantis sounds cool, what else have you tried?


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## prang11 (May 18, 2005)

I bet they would both die.  Emp would get stung, then crush bicolor.  Then emp would die from sting.  Just my thought.


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## Androctonus_bic (May 18, 2005)

If the scorps are yours it will be fine to see fighting ;P . The mine fight last week and is not a good idea.


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## cacoseraph (May 18, 2005)

Androctonus_bic said:
			
		

> If the scorps are yours it will be fine to see fighting ;P . The mine fight last week and is not a good idea.


heh, how is your B.o doing?


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## prang11 (May 18, 2005)

cacoseraph said:
			
		

> heh, how is your B.o doing?


It got killed by his H. Arizones if I remeber correctly.


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## cacoseraph (May 18, 2005)

prang11 said:
			
		

> It got killed by his H. Arizones if I remeber correctly.


i thought it only got paralyzed and then came back to life

i was wondering if there seemed to be any long term damage


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## Predator (May 18, 2005)

FortCooper1982 said:
			
		

> Well cool, i get a little bored with feeding crickets all the time (think emp deos to) would like to try some different foods to test hes strength, mantis sounds cool, what else have you tried?



I used to have a full grown Rose Hair tarantula that I did not want anymore so I threw him on with a bout 5 emps. :evil:   Tarantula didnt stand a chance.  He was stung repeatedly and was the center of a tug of war.  Felt kinda bad after the fact seeing him so helpless.


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## Brian S (May 18, 2005)

carpe scorpio said:
			
		

> I think Pandinus would crush/kill/eat all other scorpions.


I agree with you on that. In nature, size matters


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## Fluid Filter (May 18, 2005)

Unless the emperor scorp was fat with all sorts of soft spots, i doubt the bicolor would be able to score a sting before it got that fat tail lopped off. Game over after that.


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## prang11 (May 18, 2005)

cacoseraph said:
			
		

> i thought it only got paralyzed and then came back to life
> 
> i was wondering if there seemed to be any long term damage



Well I was wrong.  I went back and looked at the thread and it seems the spanish buthid did come back to life.  Amazing stuff if you ask me.  Next time I will have to check my sources and provide more accurate information.


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## Androctonus_bic (May 19, 2005)

Don't worry man, the mistakes occurs...


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## Deschain (May 19, 2005)

Predator said:
			
		

> I used to have a full grown Rose Hair tarantula that I did not want anymore so I threw him on with a bout 5 emps. :evil:   Tarantula didnt stand a chance.  He was stung repeatedly and was the center of a tug of war.  Felt kinda bad after the fact seeing him so helpless.


I thought you might have been kidding...but you're not. You should feel bad. 

Talking about who would win in a fight is one thing, and I'm sure it's crossed alot of our minds, like who would win between a lion and a tiger etc...but tossing tarantulas or scorps. together for the amusement of it is absolutely wrong and totally uncalled for. I sincerely hope that you never do something like that again.


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## Predator (May 19, 2005)

Deschain said:
			
		

> I thought you might have been kidding...but you're not. You should feel bad @$$hole.
> 
> Talking about who would win in a fight is one thing, and I'm sure it's crossed alot of our minds, like who would win between a lion and a tiger etc...but tossing tarantulas or scorps. together for the amusement of it is absolutely wrong and totally uncalled for. I sincerely hope that you never do something like that again.



I dont see whats soo entirely wrong with it.  Its the circle of life.  Its also not somthing I do on a regular basis anyways.  Scorpions eat small lizards so is it wrong to feed them those too?


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## Deschain (May 19, 2005)

Predator said:
			
		

> I dont see whats soo entirely wrong with it.


I think that's part of the problem.  



			
				Predator said:
			
		

> Scorpions eat small lizards so is it wrong to feed them those too?


Not if it is for the purpose of feeding. 

If the encounter were to happen between a scorp. and a tarantula in the wild, I'd have nothing to say, because that is life, and some things need to die for other things to live. But _your_ encounter happened because you wanted some excitement. And I don't care how you word it, it was wrong. Period.
I hope your three minutes of pleasure at seeing a tarantula stung and ripped to shreds was enjoyable.

(edit) I should apologize for being as harsh I was...It's still wrong, and I don't apologize for believing that, or being mad and saying something. I just should've chilled for a bit before posting. 

Posting while you're mad...will result in nothing you say being heard.


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## oblivion56 (May 19, 2005)

i hate these kind of threads! :evil:  :evil:  :evil:


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## Rabid Flea (May 19, 2005)

oblivion56 said:
			
		

> i hate these kind of threads! :evil:  :evil:  :evil:


I dont think that the problem is with the original posting, but the problem is when someone posts a reply like the one above.  But in all reality there is nothing anyone can do about those actions.  Its a given fact of life that there are ppl out there that will do that type of thing. (im not calling out anyone in particular, just making a general statement)  I totally do not agree with being cruel to an animal and not letting it suffer a horrible death.  But I am one that belives what goes around... comes around, so having said that....

Part two:
I dont see anything wrong with posting the original title of this posting, because the owner of the scorps is not putting them together for a battle to the death, just asking a curious question, to me thats harmless.  It would be a different matter if this person said "i put these scorps together to see who would win" but that did not happen.  So, IMO i agree that emps would win totally.  Well wait a minute, lets see, i know my B. jacksoni are wayyyyy faster with their sting than my emps, so if bicolor is in any way just as quick, it will be a tough call... 

Peace ,,\/  (~,o)  \/,,
jeko


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## FortCooper1982 (May 19, 2005)

Totally, dont agree with fighting scorps would never do it as would be sad to watch one die and be eaten (would take days aswell would have thought). Scorps dieing of natural causes is bad enough. Will not be fighting any scorps so no need to worry. Would like to test my emp though with a hissing cockroach hear there pretty tough any experence's?


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## Predator (May 19, 2005)

Deschain said:
			
		

> I think that's part of the problem.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I can understand some people being a little upset.  I did NOT go out and purchase the tarantula for the purpose of feeding him to my emp.  I just wasnt as interested in tarantulas as I thought I would be.  I decided I did not want him anymore and there was really not much I could do with him.  Friends didnt want him nor did the pet stores around here.  So I figured oh well and put him in the tank with them.  That was that and dont plan on owning anymore tarantulas.


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## Deschain (May 19, 2005)

That's a copout...and a very poor one at that. In all honesty predator, you've already done whatever damage is going to be done, and handing out excuses...especially bad ones, will only make it worse.


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## Predator (May 19, 2005)

So what your calling me a liar and that I had full intentions of buying him for some excitement?  No way would I spend $15 for scorpion food.  If I would have known about this place sooner I would have just gave him to someone here.  But I guess its not ok to do somthing that happens in the wild in captivity.


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## Bayushi (May 19, 2005)

in the wild noone purposely places a tarantula in a no escape situation where it is outnumbered 15 to 1


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## Predator (May 19, 2005)

I cant believe im arguing about this.  Oh well end of story.


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## Nocturnal (May 19, 2005)

Bayushi said:
			
		

> in the wild noone purposely places a tarantula in a no escape situation where it is outnumbered 15 to 1


 :?  or a hissing cockroach,baby mouse, cricket or any thing. who decides what is acceptable and not acceptable to feed? 
Not that I would feed my pet tarantula's to my scorps.


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## G. Carnell (May 19, 2005)

Nocturnal said:
			
		

> :?  or a hissing cockroach,baby mouse, cricket or any thing. who decides what is acceptable and not acceptable to feed?
> Not that I would feed my pet tarantula's to my scorps.


Yea, well said!
dont listen to biased opinions :>

now about tha ACTUAL question
P.imperator can be very quick too, i think the AB wouldnt stand a chance, 
when fighting an AB the emperor would also use its tail, im not quite sure how big a large AB is, but a 20cm emperor is a match for most animals


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## FortCooper1982 (May 19, 2005)

Thanks another nail the coffin for my debate, didn't think it would use the tail though, is there a scorp that could rival the emp or do you thinks its the king of kings?


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## carpe scorpio (May 19, 2005)

FortCooper1982 said:
			
		

> Thanks another nail the coffin for my debate, didn't think it would use the tail though, is there a scorp that could rival the emp or do you thinks its the king of kings?


Well, the very first day I had one, I had only a chop-stick as a tool and he snapped it like it was a toothpick. They have super crushing power. Invite them to get a pinch, and then tell  them to quit asking you stupid questions.


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## FortCooper1982 (May 19, 2005)

carpe scorpio said:
			
		

> Well, the very first day I had one, I had only a chop-stick as a tool and he snapped it like it was a toothpick. They have super crushing power. Invite them to get a pinch, and then tell  them to quit asking you stupid questions.


 Ha ha ha, love it!!!!


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## Fluid Filter (May 19, 2005)

A Heterometrus might be able to take on an emp. The probably dont have quite as much pincher power as the emp but i read that they're hotter under the collar. 
Now im curious what would win in a fight between an emp and a T. Someone must have a friend of a friend thats tried it, cruel it may possibly be...


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## Raan_Jodus (May 19, 2005)

well if u look up, 5 Emps took out a Rose hair.  I'm sure I've read that an Emp takes a Rosie pretty easy.  Scorpions are pretty much a more advanced killer, at least in my opinion.  I'm sure it would be a toss up if you mixed up the kinds tho.  Emps and Rosies are about as docile as you can get for each.  put a A.A or an LQ in with (insert nasty T name here)...and it migth be different.


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## carpe scorpio (May 19, 2005)

Raan_Jodus said:
			
		

> Scorpions are pretty much a more advanced killer


That's why I only keep scorpions, nature rarely reaches perfection with such swiftness.


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## Raan_Jodus (May 19, 2005)

if a scorp were to fall in a web, I'm sure it would lose, but that depends on the T i guess.  Otherwise scorpions just have a greater attack advantage, hold on and poke.  No need to get too close to whatever.  But both are mostly an ambush predator, so whoever steps on who first is likely going to lose.


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## Fluid Filter (May 19, 2005)

Ha, i doubt id get the same answer in the T forum.
But i believe scorpions are ancient. Been around for 30 million years or something like that.
Did you guys know the scorpion's stinger is 20% metal? I saw learned that from TV so it must be true.


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## carpe scorpio (May 19, 2005)

The pincers, plus the ability to deliver venom in a 360 degree area, makes them a serious force to be reckoned with. If it was scorpion vs solifigid, I would unfortunately be forced to pick the latter after seeing video of such an encounter.


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## Rabid Flea (May 19, 2005)

Fluid Filter said:
			
		

> Ha, i doubt id get the same answer in the T forum.


i second that.


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## carpe scorpio (May 20, 2005)

Fluid Filter said:
			
		

> i believe scorpions are ancient. Been around for 30 million years or something like that.


Try 420-440 million years, ancient is the right word.


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## Arlius (May 20, 2005)

> Originally Posted by *carpe scorpio*
> That's why I only keep scorpions, nature rarely reaches perfection with such swiftness.


They are not perfect...    they still havent grown to ppl size so they can take over the world.  :?  One day though... one day. They are just biding their time thats all, waiting to see if we'll do the work for them...


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## G. Carnell (May 20, 2005)

Fluid Filter said:
			
		

> A Heterometrus might be able to take on an emp. The probably dont have quite as much pincher power as the emp but i read that they're hotter under the collar.
> Now im curious what would win in a fight between an emp and a T. Someone must have a friend of a friend thats tried it, cruel it may possibly be...


they have just as much 
(some have thicker claws)

H.swammerdami vs P.imperator would be fairly equal too, they both have huge claws, and long tails, my biased opinion would go with H.swamm though 

there was this thread of a guy who put an A.bicolor with 2 tarantulas, and carnage ensued  i think the thread is still around..


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## Brian S (May 20, 2005)

carpe scorpio said:
			
		

> That's why I only keep scorpions, nature rarely reaches perfection with such swiftness.


Very well said Stan. Scorps are natures perfect predator. It is true or they wouldn't go unchanged for millions of years.


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## cacoseraph (May 20, 2005)

Nocturnal said:
			
		

> :?  or a hissing cockroach,baby mouse, cricket or any thing. who decides what is acceptable and not acceptable to feed?
> Not that I would feed my pet tarantula's to my scorps.



the gods could probaby render a pretty conculsive verdict...

only, they seem to be quiet of late


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## carpe scorpio (May 20, 2005)

Brian S said:
			
		

> Very well said Stan. Scorps are natures perfect predator. It is true or they wouldn't go unchanged for millions of years.


Thanks, actually the reason I like them so much, is that they are aesthetically pleasing sculpture to my eye.


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## cacoseraph (May 20, 2005)

G. Carnell said:
			
		

> they have just as much
> (some have thicker claws)
> 
> H.swammerdami vs P.imperator would be fairly equal too, they both have huge claws, and long tails, my biased opinion would go with H.swamm though
> ...


two Fort Dodoma baboons i think


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## FortCooper1982 (May 20, 2005)

Surprised noboby has mentioned Androctonus australis, very aggressive and quick.


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## prang11 (May 20, 2005)

carpe scorpio said:
			
		

> Thanks, actually the reason I like them so much, is that they are aesthetically pleasing sculpture to my eye.



I couldnt agree with you more.  I sometimes find myself gazing into my scorpion cages for long amounts of time.  Atleast a good 30 minutes to an hour a day.  They are just fun to look at and definatly help to relax me.


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## Bayushi (May 20, 2005)

prang11 said:
			
		

> They are just fun to look at and definatly help to relax me.


  better than watching fish in my opinion...
even when they are  just sitting there doing nothing...


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## prang11 (May 20, 2005)

I agree.  

Although I do have a fish and a frog that have some of the best personalities I have ever seen from a pet.  Sally is an angle fish and she is always in fron t of the tank danciong around when you look at her, and harold is one of those underwater frogs.  Harold is a complete tweak.  Constantly darting across the cage.  It is rather funny to watch.


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## ScorpDude (May 20, 2005)

Predator said:
			
		

> I used to have a full grown Rose Hair tarantula that I did not want anymore so I threw him on with a bout 5 emps. :evil:   Tarantula didnt stand a chance.  He was stung repeatedly and was the center of a tug of war.  Felt kinda bad after the fact seeing him so helpless.


you shouldn't be allowed to keep pets. Where I come from thats called animal cruelty...

EDIT: I'm going to add to this, because I feel if I don't give reasons for my views they will be disregarded. Somebody made a comment about what food is acceptable and what isn't? Well, I'm a firm believer in if it happens in the wild then we should try to re-create it, but we shouldn't try to change things for out own entertainment (such as feeding live rodents to a snake that will happily eat defrosts). In the willd, would a chile rose encounter 5 emperor scorpions in an enclosed space where it couldn't escape? no it wouldn't! The emperors were in their element, the spider had been taken out of its natural environment and given a death sentance that it didn't deserve. If you had taken a scorp out of the viv and put it in the chile roses viv then i suspect the outcome would of been different, as thats the spiders world, it is in an area that it has set up (with web) for the kill.

lets suppose you had put the spider in there and it started to fight back, it bit your scorpions, started killing them? what would you of done? You would of interviened, you would of killed the spider wouldn't you? Thats because there was only one outcome you wanted, you wanted your pet spider dead.

If you really wanted to save your spider, you could of found it a home, but no, you wanted some cheap entertainment.

I really hope your demise comes at the hands (or claws...) of your scorpions...


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## Fluid Filter (May 20, 2005)

Not this again...

What we perceive to be cruel is subjective! These rants don't change anyones mind. Killing fluffy is illegal because most people have an emotional connection with dogs and cats. If a person doesnt have an emotional connection to the animal than it's not considered cruel to that person. Live with it. There's as many realities as there are people on earth. That's my opinion anyway.

haha im not taking anymore philosophy classes. Im starting to sound like yoda or something.


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## carpe scorpio (May 20, 2005)

Fluid Filter said:
			
		

> Not this again...
> 
> What we perceive to be cruel is subjective! These rants don't change anyones mind. Killing fluffy is illegal because most people have an emotional connection with dogs and cats. If a person doesnt have an emotional connection to the animal than it's not considered cruel to that person. Live with it. There's as many realities as there are people on earth. That's my opinion anyway.
> 
> haha im not taking anymore philosophy classes. Im starting to sound like yoda or something.


Yeah, these sort of "what if" questions always end up this way. I have fed my scorps "unusual items", but I'll never reveal them.


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## becca81 (May 21, 2005)

ScorpDude said:
			
		

> Well, I'm a firm believer in if it happens in the wild then we should try to re-create it, but we shouldn't try to change things for out *own entertainment *


Agreed.



			
				ScorpDude said:
			
		

> lets suppose you had put the spider in there and it started to fight back, it bit your scorpions, started killing them? what would you of done? You would of interviened, you would of killed the spider wouldn't you? Thats because there was only one outcome you wanted, you wanted your pet spider dead.


Again, I agree.  In the wild, these two species would never come into contact with one another since they are not even native to the same continent.  

The goal of this event was to be rid of the spider.  If you thought the scorpions would have been harmed, I doubt this would have been attempted.



			
				ScorpDude said:
			
		

> If you really wanted to save your spider, you could of found it a home, but no, you wanted some cheap entertainment.


I think more effort should have been put into finding it a home.  You could have brought it to a local school that might have been interested in taking it.  Many science teachers that I know would accept one for the classroom.  

G. rosea is not difficult to care for and costs very little to feed.  Since you accepted the responsiblity of caring for it when you purchased it, why not continuing to care for it until you could find someone to take care of it?



			
				ScorpDude said:
			
		

> I really hope your demise comes at the hands (or claws...) of your scorpions...


This is a bit much, but I do hope that it was a learning experience.  It wasn't an ideal situation by any means, but at least the owner probably won't purchase any more tarantulas.  

A similar response would probably happen if someone was tired of a scorpion and decided to feed it to their _T. blondi_.  This kind of response should probably be expected in an invert forum, where many people keep both tarantulas and scorpions and see the value in both.


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## Ecilious (May 21, 2005)

*Centipedes?*

Pitting a spider against a scorpion is like pitting a car against a tank. 

I'd consider a giant centipede a more even match.

On the philosophical side of actually doing this sort of thing though, what is it that makes you believe that it is "right" to feed crickets, meal worms, cockroaches, etc. to a scorpion, and "wrong" to feed a rosey? I think it's emotional attachment, for example: I've grown up keeping hissing cockroaches and hamsers as pets, so I'd find it hard to look at them as food. The same with a chilea rose, I look at them in a similar light to hamsters and so don't look at them as food.

As with so much in life, it's all relevant to the person. Like the age-old question, "what is justice?", it's unanswerable because what some one views as justice another will view as too weak or harsh a sentence.


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## becca81 (May 21, 2005)

Ecilious said:
			
		

> On the philosophical side of actually doing this sort of thing though, what is it that makes you believe that it is "right" to feed crickets, meal worms, cockroaches, etc. to a scorpion, and "wrong" to feed a rosey?


I agree that it is, in part, an emotional attachment.

However, I feel that the "right" and "wrong" of what to feed can be looked from what the organism would eat in its natural environment.

An emperor scorpion would not eat this species in its natural environment.  Both species usually eat smaller insects (than themselves) and other such things.  If attacked by another animal that is not typically prey, I'm sure the scorpion or spider would defend itself and possibly win.  However, that is not a typical occurence.

For example, I've owned rabbits in the past and I do think that they are cute and I like them.  However, I also understand that a snake may eat a baby or full-grown rabbit in the wild or in captivity as part of its natural diet.  No big deal.


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## Fluid Filter (May 21, 2005)

I don't think the "if it happens in the wild" arguement isn't a very good one. Its not as if snakes or whatever in the wild hang out in enclosures waiting for prey to fall in where the can't excape. At least in the wild they have a chance to get away. Also, all kinds of stuff happens out in the wild. In Africa, people get eaten all the time by lions and crocs. Does that make it "right"? Should lions and crocs living in zoos be fed Africans occasionally? Sapien Supplement i would call it


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## ScorpZion (May 21, 2005)

*interesting*

i do not agree with the way the t was handled but back to the original question, i think the emp would trash the ab, simply becasue ive been pinched quite bad by my mature male hes almost 7 inches long, it drew lots of blood. picture the pinchers as big attached meat cleavers and then add a slender scorp in the midst of these cutting tools i think there is your result ;P


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## Fenris (May 27, 2005)

I'll go with the P. imperator as well.  

Now, onto the feeding of a rosie to 5 imperators...  I just wish the rosie would have had a chance to have taken out a couple of your (Predator) scorpions, maybe it would have changed your mind about doing something stupid like that.  It doesn't seem to fair that you threw one of the most docile tarantulas to your scorpions.  

I think the outcome could have been a little different had you done it with a more "aggressive" species of spider, say like a S. calceatum, P. murinus, Haplopelma spp., H. maculata, Peocilotheria spp., or the larger South American species like a T. apophysis, T. blondi or L. parahybana.  Maybe the loss of a coulpe of your more worthy pets would have changed your mind about this action.


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## cacoseraph (May 27, 2005)

Fluid Filter said:
			
		

> I don't think the "if it happens in the wild" arguement isn't a very good one. Its not as if snakes or whatever in the wild hang out in enclosures waiting for prey to fall in where the can't excape. At least in the wild they have a chance to get away. Also, all kinds of stuff happens out in the wild. In Africa, people get eaten all the time by lions and crocs. Does that make it "right"? Should lions and crocs living in zoos be fed Africans occasionally? Sapien Supplement i would call it


i have a pretty large list of ppl i'd be willing to feed to lions & crocs


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## G. Carnell (May 27, 2005)

> I think the outcome could have been a little different had you done it with a more "aggressive" species of spider, say like a S. calceatum, P. murinus, Haplopelma spp., H. maculata, Peocilotheria spp., or the larger South American species like a T. apophysis, T. blondi or L. parahybana. Maybe the loss of a coulpe of your more worthy pets would have changed your mind about this action.


Hi
lets not resort to "i prefer tarantulas so i think they would win" types of phrases, you are only fueling the argument, i myself prefer scorpions, so i am bound to be against your view, i dont really want to get into this, but im having trouble resisting, your comment would be better in the T section of AB. you seem to know alot about tarantulas, yet you dont look at the scorpion side of the view.

remember Emperors are among the most docile of scorpions too, i could carry on for ages, but i best not.


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## Fenris (May 27, 2005)

G. Carnell said:
			
		

> Hi
> lets not resort to "i prefer tarantulas so i think they would win" types of phrases, you are only fueling the argument, i myself prefer scorpions, so i am bound to be against your view, i dont really want to get into this, but im having trouble resisting, your comment would be better in the T section of AB. you seem to know alot about tarantulas, yet you dont look at the scorpion side of the view.
> 
> remember Emperors are among the most docile of scorpions too, i could carry on for ages, but i best not.


No, that's not what I was getting at, sorry.  Maybe I should have worded it differently.  I don't prefer one animal over the next at all, I love them both equally, but I think throwing a spider in there that in most cases would not defend itself well versus throwing in a spider that bites the air when shadows pass it's cage it would have been a little different.  Not saying that it would win against all 5 of those imperators, but I think it would have fared a little better than a little harmless rosie.

I will admit that I do know a lot more about tarantulas than I do of scorpions, I didn't intend on my comment to be a tarantula vs scorpion (east coast-west coast ) thing.  I do own a P. imperator, so I know of their capabilities when it comes to defending themselves.  I still think that a faster, more aggressive species of tarantula would have lasted a little longer, but now I'm just rambling and repeating myself ad nauseam.  Either way we look at it, it was a dumb thing for Predator to do.


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## Sheri (May 27, 2005)

carpe scorpio said:
			
		

> Yeah, these sort of "what if" questions always end up this way. I have fed my scorps "unusual items", but I'll never reveal them.


Damn you.


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## G. Carnell (May 27, 2005)

Fenris said:
			
		

> No, that's not what I was getting at, sorry.  Maybe I should have worded it differently.  I don't prefer one animal over the next at all, I love them both equally, but I think throwing a spider in there that in most cases would not defend itself well versus throwing in a spider that bites the air when shadows pass it's cage it would have been a little different.  Not saying that it would win against all 5 of those imperators, but I think it would have fared a little better than a little harmless rosie.
> 
> I will admit that I do know a lot more about tarantulas than I do of scorpions, I didn't intend on my comment to be a tarantula vs scorpion (east coast-west coast ) thing.  I do own a P. imperator, so I know of their capabilities when it comes to defending themselves.  I still think that a faster, more aggressive species of tarantula would have lasted a little longer, but now I'm just rambling and repeating myself ad nauseam.  Either way we look at it, it was a dumb thing for Predator to do.


Hi
ok ok 
some scorpion species are very fast and agressive,





here is a poor pic of a good example, H.spinifer being nasty
mind you i think that this one is WC,
if you look closely you can see a bead of venom on the aculeus, these get pissed off very very fast, and are nice and big


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## Fenris (May 27, 2005)

Wow, the resemblance to a P. imperator is almost uncanny!  What are some general rules when trying to differentiate between the two species?  And what is the potentcy of their venom like?  Forgive my ignorance, I'm still just entering the wonderful world of scorpions.


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## cacoseraph (May 27, 2005)

Fenris said:
			
		

> Wow, the resemblance to a P. imperator is almost uncanny!  What are some general rules when trying to differentiate between the two species?  And what is the potentcy of their venom like?  Forgive my ignorance, I'm still just entering the wonderful world of scorpions.


Pandinus species have heavily granulated claws ("bubbly" looking)

Heterometrus species have little to no granulation

they also stand differnetly a little bit and strike different defensive poses.

oh, and Heterometrus can stridulate... not sure if Pandinus can


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## carpe scorpio (May 27, 2005)

cacoseraph said:
			
		

> Heterometrus species have little to no granulation


Although there are exceptions,(http://www.ub.ntnu.no/scorpion-files/h_xanthopus(f).jpg) as George will most likely point out.


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## dangerprone69 (May 27, 2005)

I hate threads like this . . . 

I have tarantulas and scorpions, and I greatly appreciate both animals. The idea of throwing in a Rosey with 5 (!!) Emperors appalls me, more because I know the spider has no chance. The only way a tarantula could survive an encounter like this in the wild is by high tailing it out of there, up a tree or something. There's only one possible outcome in a closed space. Someone likened this to a car going up against a tank and it's very true. Spiders are built to be ambush predators, while scorpions are armor plated stalkers, able to over power, crush or sting just about anything that gets in their way.

The Petco near me had something like this happen. One of their Roses got out of it's enclosure and into the neighboring Emperor cage. The following morning they found spider parts all over the place.


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## carpe scorpio (May 27, 2005)

Sheri said:
			
		

> Damn you.


I wish I could explain, but alas, I cannot.


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## cacoseraph (May 27, 2005)

carpe scorpio said:
			
		

> Although there are exceptions,(http://www.ub.ntnu.no/scorpion-files/h_xanthopus(f).jpg) as George will most likely point out.


holy chrome!

my world just went from Black & White to greyscale

... i hate it when that happens =P


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## Fenris (May 27, 2005)

carpe scorpio said:
			
		

> Although there are exceptions,(http://www.ub.ntnu.no/scorpion-files/h_xanthopus(f).jpg) as George will most likely point out.


Ok, well in cases like this, how would one tell the difference?


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## G. Carnell (May 27, 2005)

Fenris said:
			
		

> Ok, well in cases like this, how would one tell the difference?


http://pandinus.net/scorpiones/dif_pandinus_heterometrus.html

Pandinus have more "hairs" on "that" part of the body
 i think Oliver knows the word for it, i cant remember 


best thing is Locality,
Heterometrus= Asia
Pandinus= Africa


i just made this, hope it helps
www.scorpion-realm.co.uk/diff/


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## Fluid Filter (May 27, 2005)

cacoseraph said:
			
		

> i have a pretty large list of ppl i'd be willing to feed to lions & crocs


LOL... took me a while to check back.

I don't think emps can stridulate but mine can let out a short and faint hiss when they make one of those spastic defensive movements. It's fairly subtle. Im not sure if this is true of all scorpions, though.


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## ScorpDude (May 28, 2005)

Fluid Filter said:
			
		

> I don't think the "if it happens in the wild" arguement isn't a very good one. Its not as if snakes or whatever in the wild hang out in enclosures waiting for prey to fall in where the can't excape. At least in the wild they have a chance to get away.


Thats a very good point, and thats why I don't feed live rodents (they feel pain, so its a cruel death, and its also dangerous for the snake, rodents bite)


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## carpe scorpio (May 28, 2005)

ScorpDude said:
			
		

> Thats a very good point, and thats why I don't feed live rodents (they feel pain, so its a cruel death, and its also dangerous for the snake, rodents bite)


Crickets feel pain too, but who cares?, I hate crickets!. :evil:  :evil:  :evil:


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## Brian S (May 29, 2005)

carpe scorpio said:
			
		

> Crickets feel pain too, but who cares?, I hate crickets!. :evil:  :evil:  :evil:


LMAO!!!!!! I hate 'em too!!! I also hate mice


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## ScorpDude (May 29, 2005)

carpe scorpio said:
			
		

> Crickets feel pain too, but who cares?, I hate crickets!. :evil:  :evil:  :evil:


no, they don't


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## FortCooper1982 (May 30, 2005)

I hate crickets they stink, scorps dont, they love em!!


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## dtknow (May 31, 2005)

The way that I see it(kicking what is left of the horse), is that the T. was fed to the scorps simply because the owner had lost interest. You could have tried to find the rosie another home instead of simply tossing it to the scorps for some kind of entertainment. I think that considering that rosies are for the most part still WC that it was very wasteful-esp. considering that it would have been very simple to find someone to take the rosie.


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## Fluid Filter (May 31, 2005)

Wasteful? he probably didnt didnt have to feed his scorps for a month after that.
isn't controversy great?


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## ilovebugs (Jun 1, 2005)

Predator said:
			
		

> I used to have a full grown Rose Hair tarantula that I did not want anymore so I threw him on with a bout 5 emps. :evil:   Tarantula didnt stand a chance.  He was stung repeatedly and was the center of a tug of war.  Felt kinda bad after the fact seeing him so helpless.


   I always wondered what would happen if I threw one of my rose hairs in with my emp (though I could never bring myself to do it.)


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## Rabid Flea (Jun 1, 2005)

Wow, I cant belive this thread is still going, lol.


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## OneSickPuppy (Jun 4, 2005)

*hahahaha*



			
				Fluid Filter said:
			
		

> I don't think the "if it happens in the wild" arguement isn't a very good one. Its not as if snakes or whatever in the wild hang out in enclosures waiting for prey to fall in where the can't excape. At least in the wild they have a chance to get away. Also, all kinds of stuff happens out in the wild. In Africa, people get eaten all the time by lions and crocs. Does that make it "right"? Should lions and crocs living in zoos be fed Africans occasionally? Sapien Supplement i would call it


Go lions! I personally think people are a disease. We reproduce with very low mortality rate comparatively and without the instincts to find a proper mate. Our instinct seems to be to find the most moronic, worthless and asinine of our own species to breed with. The romans pitted man vs animal.... I dont see anything wrong with that as long as we got rid of a moron in the process. 

On a bayou walk one night i got to witness my sheperd pitted against a skunk. Seems that I was the biggest loser in that battle.


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## OneSickPuppy (Jun 4, 2005)

ScorpDude said:
			
		

> Thats a very good point, and thats why I don't feed live rodents (they feel pain, so its a cruel death, and its also dangerous for the snake, rodents bite)


Hate to admit it, but im very sure crickets feel pain. If we we think that insignificant creatures of presumably low intelligence dont feel pain, we can safely assume that neither do many of our significant others under that definition.


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## FortCooper1982 (Jun 6, 2005)

OneSickPuppy said:
			
		

> Hate to admit it, but im very sure crickets feel pain. If we we think that insignificant creatures of presumably low intelligence dont feel pain, we can safely assume that neither do many of our significant others under that definition.



I dont see how any one could know if they feel pain or not, unless you asked them yourself, and i dont think anyone has done that! Do you think that insignificant creatures of presumably low intelligence fall in love too? I dont!
 Your comparing 100 million (or what ever it is) years of evolution of us, to a bug that is not complex enough to know what fear is. When my flat rock is eating a cricket alive i dont notice it in agony it just waits to be eaten, still most of the time.
  I love bugs and inverts, but crickets getting way to much respect!


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## G. Carnell (Jun 6, 2005)

thats just you then 
when my scorps eat them alive without stinging them the crix always squirms until its actual head is crushed, once there was only the head left before the chelicerae, and the antennae were still moving, kinda weird :0


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## carpe scorpio (Jun 6, 2005)

JeKo said:
			
		

> Wow, I cant belive this thread is still going, lol.


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## cacoseraph (Jun 6, 2005)

FortCooper1982 said:
			
		

> I dont see how any one could know if they feel pain or not, unless you asked them yourself, and i dont think anyone has done that! Do you think that insignificant creatures of presumably low intelligence fall in love too? I dont!
> Your comparing 100 million (or what ever it is) years of evolution of us, to a bug that is not complex enough to know what fear is. When my flat rock is eating a cricket alive i dont notice it in agony it just waits to be eaten, still most of the time.
> I love bugs and inverts, but crickets getting way to much respect!


you could look up their anatomy and see what kind of efferent nerves they have


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## FortCooper1982 (Jun 6, 2005)

G. Carnell said:
			
		

> thats just you then
> when my scorps eat them alive without stinging them the crix always squirms until its actual head is crushed, once there was only the head left before the chelicerae, and the antennae were still moving, kinda weird :0


Even if mine get eaten butt first, they dont do alot, imagine you were being eaten would you not move even thongh your in pain, doubt it!


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## OneSickPuppy (Jun 6, 2005)

I do know that they run like hell when pandinous murderous is in persuit  . They aslo try to get away when I apply pressure to their back legs to remove them so they wont keep me awake all night. If an organism has more than one cell surely it must have nerves.


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## Crotalus (Jun 6, 2005)

OneSickPuppy said:
			
		

> The romans pitted man vs animal.... I dont see anything wrong with that as long as we got rid of a moron in the process.


Easy to be brave safe on the terraces.

/Lelle


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## FortCooper1982 (Jun 8, 2005)

OneSickPuppy said:
			
		

> I do know that they run like hell when pandinous murderous is in persuit  . They aslo try to get away when I apply pressure to their back legs to remove them so they wont keep me awake all night. If an organism has more than one cell surely it must have nerves.



True but i dont think it moves coz its scared it's just responding to movement, if you scare a crik into a scorp hide and takes a snip and comes out again, why do they run back in there when you touch them on the back legs again, they should know theres a big nasty efficient killer waiting for them in there but they dont, even though they just had a luckly escape, bless them, they are all going to die at the pincers of pandinous murderous coz there so stupid ha ha ha! :evil:


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## mrbadexample (Jun 8, 2005)

Interesting thread....I can only add my own observations of accidental species mixing...

I once bought a wild-caught gravid Heterometrus species (maybe longimanus, but certainly one of the larger Heterometrus) which I housed in a divided tank with about 6-7 captive bred adult emps in the other half. About 4am one morning, I was woken by something kicking off rather loudly...the Heterometrus had managed to scale the divider and get into the emps' half of the tank. It had entered their burrow, kicked out all the emps and was, when I retrieved it, sitting in their burrow with claws spread very wide, tail high...typical defensive posture. (Picture it...it's 4am, I have to get the (angry) Heterometrus out of the emps' enclosure, and the only way I can get into the burrow is to stick my fingers in the entrance and lift the roof up. How happy am I?). Anyway, I managed to retrieve the Heterometrus: no damage to it or the emps. I think the fact that she managed to usurp the emps was because she was wild caught, and perhaps more used to defending herself  than the emps - captive bred and docile as hell. I kinda wish I'd seen the whole event.


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## Scott C. (Jun 8, 2005)

Fluid Filter said:
			
		

> A Heterometrus might be able to take on an emp. The probably dont have quite as much pincher power as the emp but i read that they're hotter under the collar.
> Now im curious what would win in a fight between an emp and a T. Someone must have a friend of a friend thats tried it, cruel it may possibly be...


My first tarantula was actually a $6.00 meal for my emp. They were about the same size and I saw on the discovery channel that scorps ate T's in the wild so it seemed fine to me. Of couse I didn't know squat about either at the time so I was a little surprised when the rosy amushed the emp. Didn't matter though. The scorp chased the T around for a couple days eating one leg at a time until I felt bad, and removed the T. The discovery of a freshly molted rosy with all his legs back a couple months later is why I am no longer an ignorant arachnophobe, and the only reason why I would never mix the two again.

*To whom it may concern: Comments about my "inhumane" or "horrible" act are better left unsaid. I already look bad to you, and there is nothing to gain by spouting your values. Unless of course you get off on typing.  *


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## FortCooper1982 (Jun 15, 2005)

Fluid Filter said:
			
		

> A Heterometrus might be able to take on an emp. The probably dont have quite as much pincher power as the emp but i read that they're hotter under the collar.
> Now im curious what would win in a fight between an emp and a T. Someone must have a friend of a friend thats tried it, cruel it may possibly be...



Just got a Heterometrus spinifer, too aggressive for emp to handle i think. Only had him one day will eat anything that goes in, VERY COOL SCORP!!!!!


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