# HELP!  Scorpion sting and chronic lasting effects???



## Ammirati (Nov 19, 2013)

Hi there.  I came across this site and am wondering if any of you can help me or point me in the right direction.

In May 2009, in Nuevo Vallarta, Mexico I was walking on the beach, in the wet sand further up from the waves, and felt a sharp stab into my 4th toe on my right foot.  It felt like a shard of glass went into my foot but when I bent down there was no blood and barely a mark and the toe was not that painful.  I walked right near where local children had been digging very deep so I am thinking they may have disturbed one that was burrowed and I stepped on it.  Little brats!!  We continued back to the resort and I rinsed my feet and the toes on the right side immediately went numb.  A few minutes later, I started to feel very spacey and stoned and then within a few more minutes, the left side of my head and face went numb.  I raced to the doctor at the resort, who said my symptoms were mostly due to anxiety and treated me with steroids.  I had this tingling and numbness throughout my entire body.  We were due to go back home that afternoon and I did not want to go to a Mexican hospital but now regret that I didn’t go as I naively believed that I would get better help in Canada.  So not the case!!!!  I am not sure if this was THE event that led to my slow spiral down, or if it was just a trigger and something else is at play, but it seems that I have never really been the same since I got stung.  Through my research and my symptom presentation, I believed that it might have been a scorpion, but I did not see it so I do not know for sure.  My strange symptoms continued and were very debilitating for about a month afterward.  My hearing became very sensitive, I had insomnia and body jolts, pain in the feet and legs, but no real swelling.  To this day, I still get pain into the foot and that toe and am now experincing muscle twitching, burning pain, tingling and numbness in my arms and legs, and other freaky neurological issues.  I have contacted different people and they say that a scorpion sting would not cause these chronic long term effects but my symptoms are very similar as to the day I was stung.  I am wondering what your opinions are and if anyone can recommend someone to talk to.  I have read about people complaining about lasting effects and wonder if some people might have problem getting rid of the scorpion toxin?  Any thoughts would be helpful, and very much appreciated!


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## ShredderEmp (Nov 19, 2013)

I doubt the long lasting effects are due to a scorpion. Especially that close to the beach. A scorpion definitely could cause the immediate effects, but not the ones two years down the road. Only one scorpion that I know of can cause long lasting effects, and it only lives in the middle east. I believe Iran.


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## Ammirati (Nov 19, 2013)

Thanks for your feedback ShredderEmp


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## G. Carnell (Nov 19, 2013)

I agree that its improbable to find a burrowing scorpion at the sea shore - and I don't believe any burrowing species are remotely medically significant in Mexico!
None of the Centruroides are burrowing right?



Perhaps some kind of shellfish?



Might be worth doing a literature search for long lasting effects of scorpion stings, if its been reported before there might
be a few journals around!


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## ShredderEmp (Nov 19, 2013)

G. Carnell said:


> I agree that its improbable to find a burrowing scorpion at the sea shore - and I don't believe any burrowing species are remotely medically significant in Mexico!
> None of the Centruroides are burrowing right?
> 
> 
> ...


Your correct. There are no burrowing Centruroides sp., as they are a genus of bark scorpions. 

I do know that some snails have a venomous barb, but I don't think they can live on land...


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## viper69 (Nov 19, 2013)

Ammirati said:


> if some people might have problem getting rid of the scorpion toxin?  Any thoughts would be helpful, and very much appreciated!


I haven't heard of a scorprion in Mexico whose habitat includes the beach, or long lasting effects. Re: the toxin, many toxins which affect the nervous system bind irreversibly and cause death. Even those that don't bind irreversibly to their targets but have high affinity to the proteins they bind with are cleared out of the system. You wouldn't have any residual toxin in your body.

If your condition was caused by the incident at the beach, it was mostly likely a marine organism.


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## Galapoheros (Nov 19, 2013)

I don't think your problem is associated with the beach incident, prob something else imo.  The doc was prob correct at the time but then something unrelated started up.

Reactions: Like 1


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## 2nscorpx (Nov 20, 2013)

ShredderEmp said:


> I do know that some snails have a venomous barb, but I don't think they can live on land...


They're cones, and I don't think the few species that are medically significant are found in Mexico.


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## The Snark (Nov 20, 2013)

A little good and bad news. Sagittal numbness, 'one side of the body at onset' is neurological. It is most commonly noted with CVA's. Cerebro Vascular Accidents. Aka, stroke. However, the numbness usually is not gradual but felt all at once. The numbness then going parasagittal, both sides, is pretty common, most often associated with snake bites. Snake bites, or some other similar neurotoxic venom then progresses exactly as you described. Unscientifially I would rule out anything but a snake bite by reason that the venom is very rarely as strong as in spiders or other, but much more is normally delivered. This results in the poison/toxin circulating through the body and brain for a much longer time, affecting more brain cells.
The lasting malaise is also typical of a neurotoxin, weak but a hefty dose. This is very commonly reported with O. Hannah bites. An India doctor I spoke with called it naga dementia. 

And the above is the good news. The bad is you are now exhibiting non specific nerve damage of the brain. Can non (site) specific nerve damage be accurately diagnosed? Since that is what I suffer from, caused by petro-chemical poisoning,  I'll tell you exactly what the nerve specialists told me. Maybe. And it's going to cost a minimum of $30,000 up front to get the testing started, and you are going to be doing a LOT of commuting or will need to take up residence near the hospital where the specialist(s) are doing the testing.

My suggestion is see a competent nerve specialist and have him/her do the basic tests which only take a few hours. They will do an MRI and some other fancy stuff that can run up a bill of $10,000. The big BIG problem with non specific is if their tests come up ENTIRELY NEGATIVE, you HAVE that condition. That is, there is no simple test that will locate damage as there are no aneurisms, blood clots or dead tissues. Just weakened, mutated or randomly dead neurons. Finding a few million weirded out neurons amongst the trillions in your brain just doesn't happen. Thus, symptoms without positive test results=Non specific brain damage.

Can you recover from brain damage? Partially, but never entirely. It will depend on the extent of the damage and to a lesser degree, where in the brain. It has been demonstrated however that people who exclude all blood circulation restricting chemicals, smoking or other vasoconstrictants, all atherosclerosis contributors as trans and saturated fats, and get a lot of low impact exercise, working up to doubling your heart rate for an hour<- (SLOWLY working up to that), are the patients that recover to the greatest degree. 

(I've spent countless hours researching this. I sincerely hope I am wrong and I wish you the best.)

Two suggested fields to research: the long term effects of Sarin and O. Hannah bites.


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## Ancalagon (Nov 20, 2013)

I agree with the others, it's unlikely for a scorpion to reside that close to the sea. The scenario I'm imagining is this: maybe a jellyfish, Portuguese Man of War, or more likely their tentacles washed up onto the beach and you merely stepped on it (the tentacles will be very hard to spot since they are small, thin, and transparent). The venom of some jellyfish is neurotoxic I believe, and since the tentacles are hard to spot, that would explain why you didn't see anything. Jellyfish stings leave a "trademark" series of bumps that swell up and may cause scarring though; did you happen to notice that on your foot? If not, I'm not sure what else it could be aside from cone shells.. I'm not familiar with cone shells though and there are many species, I'm not sure which ones can be found in Mexico and how dangerous they are; I just know that some cone shells in the Pacific Ocean around Australia, Indonesia, and the Philippines can be very deadly.


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## Ammirati (Nov 20, 2013)

Mmm, I suppose it could have been washed up onto the beach as the waves rolled in,  Thanks for your feedback

---------- Post added 11-20-2013 at 02:41 PM ----------

thanks for your feedback.  Yes I definitely thought about a tentacle of a Jellyfish or the Man of War, but I hear this sting is super painful.  I was definitely uncomfortable from the tingling and numbness but would say the actual pain I had in my foot and legs was pretty mild.  And no, no trademark series of bumps on my foot.   I will never walk on the beach wothout sand shoes again!!

---------- Post added 11-20-2013 at 02:49 PM ----------

Thanks for your feedback and information. I probably would have seen a snake if that was it. Yes the neurological stuff is pretty scary but so far any CT's and MRI's have been unremarkable.  I actually recently tested positive for Lyme disease and am going to the US to see a doc next week and hopefully he can shed some light on what is going on.  All these issues could be from that and maybe the sting triggered my imune system to go a little crazy.  Lyme is nasty in itself.  Thanks again


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## The Snark (Nov 21, 2013)

http://www.theconesnail.com/explore-cone-snails/venom

Over 50,000 different toxins??!!! They are found on the west coast of Mexico and Baja California.


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## Michiel (Nov 21, 2013)

I just want to add that there are scorpions that live on coasts, beaches and even just above the shore line. We call these littoral species...like Vaejovis littoralis from Baja California, Mexico...
For the rest....what Snark says.....The scorpions that live in that area could not have caused these long term effects.....


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## 2nscorpx (Nov 21, 2013)

2nscorpx said:


> They're cones, and I don't think the few species that are medically significant are found in Mexico.


Whoops, it seems as though I didn't know too much about the subject. I should have said, "I'm no expert on cones"...


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## Smokehound714 (Nov 21, 2013)

Actually, there IS a species of scorpion with medically significant venom that does inhabit coastal regions in mexico.  I really wish i could remember the name of the genus, but it might be either a Iurid, or Buthid.


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## ShredderEmp (Nov 21, 2013)

http://www.ntnu.no/ub/scorpion-files/medicallist.php

One of these?


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## PrincessOfQuiteAlot (Jan 25, 2020)

I know this is a very old thread, but hoping someone sees this & can offer some insight as I haven’t had much luck searching for long last effects from scorpion stings. 

I live in Southern California & stepped on a scorpion (didn’t see it on the dark hardwood floors). Scorpion stung the middle toe, underside, on the right foot. 

Of course it was very painful for days and like a bee sting, pain seemed to fade and was gone. However, months later, pain came back in that same area, followed by the entire tow going numb, and would go through phases of being painful, then super itchy and then numb and fluctuate amongst those symptoms without and specific order or rhyme/reason & then completely disappear. 

This has been happening for the past 6-7 years. And approximately 3 times within that time span of odd intermittent symptoms, my toe would swell up, parts would appear blue/purple as if it was bruised & would become extremely painful, it felt as if my toe was broken, yet I hadn’t hit it or anything & then days later all symptoms would completely disappear as fast as they appeared. 

I am currently experiencing the worst episode I’ve ever had of the swelling, bruising, broken toe set of symptoms ever, to the point that I’m in tears from pain & I consider myself to have a very high pain tolerance. 

I plan on seeking medical help if I’m still at this of pain on Monday (today is Saturday).

I am just reaching out to find out if anyone had heard of anything like this happening before?

I appreciate any & all feedback as I am a busy mom of 4 children and I don’t have time to be down like this - I just need help and answers to find out what in the world may be going on. 

Thank you.


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## Lubed Tweezer (Jan 25, 2020)

PrincessOfQuiteAlot said:


> I know this is a very old thread, but hoping someone sees this & can offer some insight as I haven’t had much luck searching for long last effects from scorpion stings.
> 
> I live in Southern California & stepped on a scorpion (didn’t see it on the dark hardwood floors). Scorpion stung the middle toe, underside, on the right foot.
> 
> ...


Normally symptoms of scorpion stings disappear after a few days, some species venom can take a bit more than 1 week.
There are many types of scorpion venom, every genus or even species have their own mix. 
May i suggest you seek advice from a doctor that is specialized in scorpion venom/toxins. 
I don't think the average doc will do, he/she will just recommend amputating it if you can't bear anymore. 
Scorpion venom is a special subject, please read some if you are interested;
https://par.nsf.gov/servlets/purl/10122379
Catching and determining the specimen that stung you would be of great help to narrow things down, but this advice is far too late unfortunately.
Doctors/specialists can diagnose things easier if the symptoms are present, it gets harder if they need to diagnose just from 'sensations of the past'.
Take care and good luck.


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## darkness975 (Jan 27, 2020)

I love how the OP of this thread never returned ... 

I don't believe the venom would remain that long, but I suppose nerve damage is possible (though hopefully not the case).

Reactions: Like 1


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## PrincessOfQuiteAlot (Jan 27, 2020)

Thank you. 

Yes, I am thinking nerve damage also. 




darkness975 said:


> I love how the OP of this thread never returned ...
> 
> I don't believe the venom would remain that long, but I suppose nerve damage is possible (though hopefully not the case).


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## PrincessOfQuiteAlot (Jan 27, 2020)

Thank you. 

I’m definitely leaning towards nerve damage. But, will definitely look into seeing a physician that specializes in stings. 

And, agreed it is too late go know exactly what type of scorpion, but I’m hoping that a specialist in this area knows what more than likely I stepped on & can give feedback on that and work through my symptoms and if they’ve ever heard of anything similar happening over a long period of time. 

I will definitely update this thread if I learn anything that makes sense & can maybe help others. 




Lubed Tweezer said:


> Normally symptoms of scorpion stings disappear after a few days, some species venom can take a bit more than 1 week.
> There are many types of scorpion venom, every genus or even species have their own mix.
> May i suggest you seek advice from a doctor that is specialized in scorpion venom/toxins.
> I don't think the average doc will do, he/she will just recommend amputating it if you can't bear anymore.
> ...

Reactions: Informative 1


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## darkness975 (Jan 28, 2020)

PrincessOfQuiteAlot said:


> Thank you.
> 
> I’m definitely leaning towards nerve damage. But, will definitely look into seeing a physician that specializes in stings.
> 
> ...


Hopefully not.  =[


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## RTTB (Feb 4, 2020)

c exilicauda was found in great number by Polis on sandy beaches right near the water in Baja.


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