# "teacup" stingray



## blazetown (Nov 26, 2009)

Does anyone know if exo-terra desert sand can be used aquatically (I think it has no silicates but im not sure)? I have a freshwater ray coming tommorrow and im having a pain still trying to find proper sand. I think everything I have is too sharp and for some reason I can't find any exo riverbed sand around here. If anyone has any info that would be great...should have pics up after I get the beasty in.


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## LeilaNami (Nov 26, 2009)

I'm not sure on the exoterra sand but have you considered using pool filter sand?  That is what I believe we used at the zoo (or just straight play sand).  Most of our substrate was crushed shells but we did provide a sand box    I hope you realize how smart these guys can be.  They will benefit from some enrichment which, unfortunately, many ray keepers neglect.  What we used was a hamster ball with some holes cut out.  We put some shrimp and smelt inside it.  The southern stingrays would roll that thing all around the pool lol


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## blazetown (Nov 26, 2009)

Thats very cool. I just spent 3 hours sifting sand from gravel to get my preferred and already used natural beach sand...and i think im gonna add some exo-terra to it cause theres no where near enough. Once again I'll try to put pics up tommorrow. Hopefully I'll get lucky and the plants I buy tommorrow establish partially before being uprooted lol.


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## LeilaNami (Nov 26, 2009)

blazetown said:


> Thats very cool. I just spent 3 hours sifting sand from gravel to get my preferred and already used natural beach sand...and i think im gonna add some exo-terra to it cause theres no where near enough. Once again I'll try to put pics up tommorrow. Hopefully I'll get lucky and the plants I buy tommorrow establish partially before being uprooted lol.


Lol, yeah, they're pretty bad about redecorating.  Good luck with your new food monster.  They sure like to eat.   :worship:


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## Mack&Cass (Nov 26, 2009)

I wouldn't use the exo-terra sand, it's usually limestone or sandstone, and they can leach carbonates and calcium into the water. Rays like soft water so an excess of carbonates is not good.

Mackenzie


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## blazetown (Nov 28, 2009)

Couldn't get any good pics...heres stingy in his/her styro box.


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## Teal (Nov 28, 2009)

*It's adorable! What sort of set up is required (aside from the substrate talked about here)?*


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## moose35 (Nov 28, 2009)

Teal said:


> *It's adorable! What sort of set up is required (aside from the substrate talked about here)?*


something for it to swim in.....


             moose


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## LeilaNami (Nov 28, 2009)

Teal said:


> *It's adorable! What sort of set up is required (aside from the substrate talked about here)?*


Even though some deem rays like this as sedentary, they really are fairly active and curious creatures.  In my personal opinion I would not place even the smallest ray species in anything less than the floor space of 4' by 4' but that comes from personal experience taking care of these animals.  Many people just consider these guys "another fish" (not referring to you blazetown :worship: :worship: ) and will toss them in the smallest tank they can manage to live in. Also, they are escape artists.  When hungry enough they will sometimes try to suck their way up the wall and out of the tank in search of food .  A secure lid is a must for these guys.


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## josh_r (Nov 28, 2009)

check this site out. this is a great place to buy fish/plants/supplies..... and stingrays!

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwstringray


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## blazetown (Nov 28, 2009)

He/she was trying to climb up out of the water in teh styro box. It munched that mealworm about 5 minutes later. Leilanami do you know how to tell if the rays disc has been burned? I'm also  having a heck of a time finding what I need to lower the pH....the ray is in more of a whitewater than blackwater setup right now because I could not find a proper sub. I need to find some peat and a way to soften water other than driving 40 mins to my dads and an RO unit.

Aside from what I don't know these guys need lots of floorspace, low pH and generally a blackwater setup....I've heard water changes are very imporant aswell because rays are sensitive to nitrates.


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## AbraxasComplex (Nov 28, 2009)

blazetown said:


> He/she was trying to climb up out of the water in teh styro box. It munched that mealworm about 5 minutes later. Leilanami do you know how to tell if the rays disc has been burned? I'm also  having a heck of a time finding what I need to lower the pH....the ray is in more of a whitewater than blackwater setup right now because I could not find a proper sub. I need to find some peat and a way to soften water other than driving 40 mins to my dads and an RO unit.
> 
> Aside from what I don't know these guys need lots of floorspace, low pH and generally a blackwater setup....I've heard water changes are very imporant aswell because rays are sensitive to nitrates.


Put in a bunch of Malaysian driftwood. This will secrete high amounts of tannins and lower the pH as well. Here in Calgary our pH is 8.4-8.8. By using only driftwood I had tanks gradually decrease to 6.0-5.5 and the water was a nice brown tinge.


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## LeilaNami (Nov 28, 2009)

blazetown said:


> He/she was trying to climb up out of the water in teh styro box. It munched that mealworm about 5 minutes later. Leilanami do you know how to tell if the rays disc has been burned? I'm also  having a heck of a time finding what I need to lower the pH....the ray is in more of a whitewater than blackwater setup right now because I could not find a proper sub. I need to find some peat and a way to soften water other than driving 40 mins to my dads and an RO unit.
> 
> Aside from what I don't know these guys need lots of floorspace, low pH and generally a blackwater setup....I've heard water changes are very imporant aswell because rays are sensitive to nitrates.


Abraxas was right about the driftwood and pH.  Your water will be a nice tea color lol.  As far as softening the water, you can see this web page for some ideas.
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/water_softeners.php

And yes they are VERY sensitive to nitrates.  We lost some rays because the city put benzium nitrates into the city water supply and decided not decide to tell anyone.  Because they did an initial water analysis at the beginning of the year, they had already worked out their chemicals so by the time it was figured out what was going on, we lost 2/3 of the rays.

Usually the disc edges will have a pink, irritated look to it if it's burned.  You just have to make sure first that it's not a normal coloration of that particular species. 

You gonna try to get it to hand-feed? lol


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## ZergFront (Nov 29, 2009)

That's really cool. I don't know anyone who has a stingray as a tank fish.

 I think the back fins tell the sex, right? :?


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## Galapoheros (Nov 29, 2009)

Coooool.  I've never heard of those.  Is there a river around there that runs through some rocky areas?  There are some rivers here in central and west tx that have sandy deposits in places.  It seems like that would be perfect for it.


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## LeilaNami (Nov 29, 2009)

ZergFront said:


> That's really cool. I don't know anyone who has a stingray as a tank fish.
> 
> I think the back fins tell the sex, right? :?


Yes, the males have a set of anal fins called claspers.  Females don't have these.


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## blazetown (Nov 30, 2009)

Not to be confused with the fins just under the tail that all rays have. I know believe this ray to be Potamotrygon reticulata. I think the 'burns' I saw on the underside of the disk may be adult coloring coming in. I noticed the undersides of some of the adult rays are much whiter than the transparent undersides of juvies and some species have darkening or mottling on the undersides.


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## blazetown (Nov 30, 2009)

Here's what I thought was burns. Check the edge of the disc.


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## UrbanJungles (Nov 30, 2009)

Those aren't burns, it's just slightly irritated from transport..it'll be fine.

They need large space not only because they are active but for water quality purposes, they are very sensitive to poor h2o quality and being that they eat (and produce so much waste) a larger volume of water helps to maintain a more stable environment.

Although Malaysian driftwood would indeed condition the water I would never put anything in with them....they do not do well around sharp edges or corners as driftwood tends to have.  Unless you are using a very large tank as recommended I would use nothing but a sand substrate...no worrd, coral,  rocks, etc...


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## LeilaNami (Nov 30, 2009)

UrbanJungles said:


> Those aren't burns, it's just slightly irritated from transport..it'll be fine.
> 
> They need large space not only because they are active but for water quality purposes, they are very sensitive to poor h2o quality and being that they eat (and produce so much waste) a larger volume of water helps to maintain a more stable environment.
> 
> Although Malaysian driftwood would indeed condition the water I would never put anything in with them....they do not do well around sharp edges or corners as driftwood tends to have.  Unless you are using a very large tank as recommended I would use nothing but a sand substrate...no worrd, coral,  rocks, etc...


I was thinking more of using driftwood in some kind of sump for the tank.  You are right.  They can injure themselves very easily.  Working in a touch exibit, it was very important that we kept visitors from scratching them.  For some reason they wanted to scratch them on the head like a dog.


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## dtknow (Nov 30, 2009)

Looks like a girl to me.


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## UrbanJungles (Nov 30, 2009)

LeilaNami said:


> I was thinking more of using driftwood in some kind of sump for the tank.  You are right.  They can injure themselves very easily.  Working in a touch exibit, it was very important that we kept visitors from scratching them.  For some reason they wanted to scratch them on the head like a dog.


Yes a sump is a good call on the driftwood and of course with helping out on water quality.  Scratches & cuts quickly lead to major infection which is why as boring as it may look, a barren tank is best for these guys.


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## ZergFront (Nov 30, 2009)

What if the wood was sanded smooth?


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## LeilaNami (Dec 1, 2009)

ZergFront said:


> What if the wood was sanded smooth?


You can get splinters from even smooth wood.  All you have to do is rub up against it at the right angle.


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## UrbanJungles (Dec 1, 2009)

Sometimes they get spooked and take off, if they slam into the wood (no matter how sanded or dull) they will die or develop an injury/infection.  That's why they do best in a good sized enclosure...so that they have plenty of room to maneuver and avoid colliding into things.


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## LeilaNami (Dec 1, 2009)

UrbanJungles said:


> Sometimes they get spooked and take off, if they slam into the wood (no matter how sanded or dull) they will die or develop an injury/infection.  That's why they do best in a good sized enclosure...so that they have plenty of room to maneuver and avoid colliding into things.


This too.  We had cownose rays at the exhibit as well and they would literally jump out of the water and belly flop when spooked.  The Southerns would take off across the pool.


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## ZergFront (Dec 1, 2009)

UrbanJungles said:


> Sometimes they get spooked and take off, if they slam into the wood (no matter how sanded or dull) they will die or develop an injury/infection.  That's why they do best in a good sized enclosure...so that they have plenty of room to maneuver and avoid colliding into things.



 Ah, okay. See I've never had sharks/stingrays. Thought I'd put out some curiosities.


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## blazetown (Dec 24, 2009)

I'm not sure if anyone would know but does P. reticulata have 2 spines or might I have a different species?


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## blazetown (Dec 25, 2009)

Regardless of species I've decided to design an acrylic tank for her. I'm also a little confused on that topic. Anyone know anything about building a plastic tank lol? I wonder if I can find the proper plastic to use at home depot I read a web page on building acrylic tanks but I still wonder about the plastics and sealants leaking...I might have to stick with glass and silicon. Acrylic seems so much lighter and cheaper though....


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## dtknow (Dec 25, 2009)

Number of spines is not diagnostic. At least with the round stingray according to some research by some grad students at my school they grow a new spine every year(irregardless of whether the old one has been used or not). Thus...clipping off the spines of a stingray is only a temporary measure.


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## blazetown (Dec 25, 2009)

Thanks Dt...while I wait for some of our resident zoologists and aquarium builders to answer my other questions here's some more pictures. Also I've noted the driftwood problem and my friend Ray Fillet will be in proper conditions after I get the money and learn how to build a proper tank. That giant piece of malaysian wood is being used as a barrier currently. The plan being to established a wall of plants in the corners and sides so the ray doesn't damage itself swimming. I replant the new cuttings everyday though so in a few days the log will be on the opposite end. The next step is setting up the 55 gallon for the polypterus so Ray Fillet can go in the 40 while I build an acrylic system. That and making something to raise ghost shrimp in. Petsmart(in Canada petco U.S.A.) had ghosts for 99 cents a pop. I went in to buy some reserve food for the ray because I'm leaving for a day or two and ended up saying F it for that price. Lesson being I need to just set up my own breeding tank for ghosts...heck I might as well breed and sell them. Canada sucks for prices and availability of certain things. Anyway this has turned into a blog so once again any creative aquarium builders or biologists any input would be appreciated.


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## UrbanJungles (Dec 25, 2009)

Building a WATERPROOF acrylic is extremely difficult...if it fails, the results are catastrophic.  It's very hard to seal up an acrylic tank you will definitively be better off buying one.

The drift wood in that tank is too busy...he will inevitably hurt himself as you currently have it set up.


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## blazetown (May 25, 2010)

*update*

So the reticulata has had a new friend (motoro) for some time now. I've decided to go with an indoor pond rather than an acrylic tank. I've been having some issues deciding what to do exactly though. I'm looking for a 300 gallon rubbermaid stock tank (apparently hard to find in London) and I think I'll step up from that with either a custom rectangular 500 gal pond in my basement or just a similar sized rectangular hydro system reservoir or containment basin. Does anyone have any experience with indoor pond systems? My main concern is humidity, so I'll likely cover the system 90% of the time to lower evaporation and get a new dehumidifier. I'm thinking a flat square pre-formed pond/stock tank would be the best for the rays. Any opinions? I remember someone talking about them needed forms of entertainment , and mentioning throwing a hamster ball full of bloodworms for them to roll around all day. Anyone have any other suggestions for stingray entertainment lol?


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## pouchedrat (May 25, 2010)

have you ever gone to www.monsterfishkeepers.com?  They usually have good recommendations on building a giant tank, etc.   

i could never house something that large, but I do love visiting that forum and looking at pics.


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## Toirtis (May 25, 2010)

I have used smaller above ground swimming pools as tanks for rays, peacock bass, nile perch, etc....with great success.


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## blazetown (May 26, 2010)

I was actually on that site all day and I ended up talking to a knowledgeable employee at Big Als for a while about rays. I think I'm gonna end up building a pond in the basement with cinder blocks and a wood frame. Then throw in some pond liner and use a poly sheet or plexi sheet to cover it most of the time to keep the humidity down. I read a good article about one of the larger aquariums (possibly Monteray Bay) using a cool system to strip out nitrates and other chemicals. They hung a section of PVC tube from the sealing which was halved and coated with white epoxy. The filter return was pumped down this tube into the tank and they hung UV lighting above it. This promoted algae growth which removed large amounts of nitrates. I just thought I should share this concept because I'm sure a few of us might find it useful or interesting. I'm planning on running something like this through my system but I will likely just use a 2' or 3' T5.

P.S. T5s from hydroponic or greenhouse supply stores are way cheaper than pet stores.


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## Toirtis (May 26, 2010)

Go on monsterfishkeepers....there is a chap here in Calgary that works for a local pond company that built a fantastic pond in his basement for his rays...complete with underwater lighting, side view windows, etc...he posted his project on MFK, and I am certain that he would be happy to give you some tips...he is a great guy.


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