# Jumping spider baby mystery, + what do babies eat?



## kamakiri (Oct 13, 2018)

My story is a weird one. First of all, let me establish myself as an unwitting jumping spider afficionado: in late July 2018 almost by accident I caught a small spider that was hopping around my Montreal 8th floor condo.

Well, my policy is to gently escort any spiders or other insects to the balcony, because my wife is terrified of all insects, but for some reason I had been reading about jumping spiders somewhere and was able to identify this one as a jumping spider, although he was only about the size of a large grain of rice.

Anyway, I fashioned a quick enclosure out of a largish food container with some potting soil on the bottom (about 8mm deep) and a couple of fake twigs from an orchid display. I covered it (brilliant move!) in one of my wife's nylon stockings.

The spider seemed bemused by this arrangement but was seemingly happy with it. Then I set about finding things for him to eat. I found a few small beetles in the garden downstairs and I actually filmed my spider jumping on one (actually, the video is from the day before I made the enclosure) but imagine my joy when I found _another_ jumping spider in the garden downstairs.

This one was about the same size, so I put it in the enclosure and all was quiet for a while, until one day I noticed that one of the spiders had disappeared . . . I was crushed, but I figured he'd been the meal of the other.

Flash forward over several weeks; every so often I would not see my spider for several days. I just assumed he had died and readied myself to ditch the container. But then he would pop up, looking none the worse for wear!

But then one day, about two weeks ago (beginning of October, 2018) after I had noticed my spider being "gone" for several days, imagine my sheer astonishment when all of a sudden, out she pops, looking radiant, and then I saw several—I'd say about four—tiny creatures crawling on the insides of the container. With my magnifying glass I ID'd them as definitely jumping spiders, albeit about the size of pin-heads (1.5mm) . . .

Last night I found a fruit fly in my kitchen hanging around my honey jar and I managed to snag it. I introduced it to the enclosure and I was astonished to see how fast my spider caught it (and then disappeared!)

But my question is not about her, it's about the tiny spiders—now I count only two but there may be more on the potting soil that I can't see—what will they eat? They're so small I fear for their lives if the mother is around—or indeed if their siblings are around!

I wouldn't have a clue how to move them out of there nor do I know whether I even should. Perhaps the mother is feeding them somehow?

I'm looking into a terrarium of some sort but when the time comes, how can I move the babies? and in the meantime, how can I feed them? My thanks to everyone in advance! Nick

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## WildSpider (Oct 13, 2018)

kamakiri said:


> My story is a weird one. First of all, let me establish myself as an unwitting jumping spider afficionado: in late July 2018 almost by accident I caught a small spider that was hopping around my Montreal 8th floor condo.
> 
> Well, my policy is to gently escort any spiders or other insects to the balcony, because my wife is terrified of all insects, but for some reason I had been reading about jumping spiders somewhere and was able to identify this one as a jumping spider, although he was only about the size of a large grain of rice.
> 
> ...


Sounds like a fun project . You could try buying some flightless fruitflies online or from the petstore (petstore might be faster).

For separating the slings, here's a fun video (skip to 5:16 to get to the transferring):

Reactions: Agree 1


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## kamakiri (Oct 13, 2018)

Hehe . . . wow! It took me a second to figure out what a "sling" was! This guy's method is pretty cool—I didn't see the part where he tells how he constructs the straws. What's that mesh material on the end? My "slings" are truly minuscule—not much larger than this bullet: • —(hope that publishes as well as it looks on my screen) so the mesh on the straw would have to be truly tiny. Plus how does he get them out again once they're in the straw?

I guess I'll watch his video from beginning to end to see if my questions are answered there.

Oh yeah, quite in spite of myself I actually found a wingless fruitfly seller on my local classifieds board (kijiji) and she seems to be a novice at this as well (she sells dart frogs. (?))

Anyway, the flies should be showing up Monday morning. I'm going to try to transfer this whole little spider family to a better container in the near future—any suggestions? I love amazon.ca so maybe if you could find something good there I could pick it up. I was thinking of using sand as a base instead of soil—is that okay for the spiders? It would just be cleaner and I could see what was going on better.

Such a great hobby—sure beats Betta collecting! Thanks for your help in advance! -- Nick


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## WildSpider (Oct 13, 2018)

kamakiri said:


> Hehe . . . wow! It took me a second to figure out what a "sling" was! This guy's method is pretty cool—I didn't see the part where he tells how he constructs the straws. What's that mesh material on the end? My "slings" are truly minuscule—not much larger than this bullet: • —(hope that publishes as well as it looks on my screen) so the mesh on the straw would have to be truly tiny. Plus how does he get them out again once they're in the straw?
> 
> I guess I'll watch his video from beginning to end to see if my questions are answered there.
> 
> ...


He uses a nylon stocking on the end. To get them back out, he just blows into the straw.

I can't really say which container is the best buy. I mostly just use modified jars for my spiders (I'm pretty cheap). I'm sure some others have some good ideas of nice ones to buy. When you do buy a container, make sure that the container comes with cross ventilation or that it will be possible for you to make the holes for the cross ventilation. Be sure the holes are small enough that the babies won't get out. If you can't make small enough holes for them, you could cut a larger hole in the side and put some nylon stocking over it. I use some old ballet stocking for these kinds of things. I think this type of mesh (cheese cloth is another of this type of mesh) is the best kind to use as a spider can get their tibial hooks stuck in larger meshes.

A lot of different keepers use a lot of different kinds of substrate. I tend to like peat moss, organic potting soil or no substrate at all. I have heard of keepers using sand for certain species and I have also heard of keepers mixing sand in with their other substrates. I found an old thread (I must've had the same question at one point as I actually saved it to my computer, lol) discussing sand for Ts (tarantulas) but these aren't true spiders so I can't be sure that the same thing applies for jumpers. Here's the thread: http://arachnoboards.com/threads/why-is-sand-harmful-for-ts.56867/

I think potting soil is my current favorite substrate for my true spiders as I find it doesn't mold so easily and it's something they're around quite a bit outside at my house.

Hope this helps .


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## kamakiri (Oct 13, 2018)

It's so weird that just by random instinct I set up my spiders' home correctly—with potting soil on the bottom, a couple of twigs to climb on and some of my wife's nylon stockings as a mesh roofing material.

I had considered just poking holes in a plastic top to the container (it's an ordinary Tupperware-type rectangular tall container) but then I figured the air would not circulate enough.

But it's a pretty cheesy amateur "collector"-type temporary thing . . . I figure if I'm going to make this a serious hobby, like my action-figure collection and scale model building and all those typical male-angst-getting-old fascinations, I should spring for a good-looking glass container maybe with its own light, maybe some terrarium-type accoutrements like cacti (?), coloured sand, y'know . . . the whole shebang, if I can and my wife permits me!

But first-fold in any habitat priorities obviously would be the spiders' well-being!

As it is, I'm a little freaked out that my original one spider somehow hatched new little ones, completely out of the blue! Indeed, Basin79, who I believe also hangs out here, questioned whether it was actually *mites* that I was seeing, not spiders. Because one would expect more than two or three babies, if indeed the jumper had been pregnant all along . . . and where is its egg sac, nest, or whatever else it's supposed to have? All that stuff not being there threw me for a real loop, after I spied the tiny ones. Not that I'm complaining!

Okay, I trolled Amazon and haven't really found anything that fits all the bills. so maybe I'll mosey on over to my local florist and see what they might have in the way of containers. They might even be amenable to decking one out to my specs, as they did to my Macintosh Plus-shell-cum-aquarium thing a decade or two back.

Come Monday I'll be getting my wingless fruitflies and the scene is likely to really get wild!

Naturally I'll keep you all posted! --Nick


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## WildSpider (Oct 13, 2018)

kamakiri said:


> It's so weird that just by random instinct I set up my spiders' home correctly—with potting soil on the bottom, a couple of twigs to climb on and some of my wife's nylon stockings as a mesh roofing material.
> 
> I had considered just poking holes in a plastic top to the container (it's an ordinary Tupperware-type rectangular tall container) but then I figured the air would not circulate enough.
> 
> ...


That's cool you got it on the first try. Sounds like you've got a knack for it .

I do use glass enclosures sometimes (like for Steatoda grossa) but I tend not to as much anymore. The reasons I don't usually is they are more difficult to get enough ventilation through, the water droplets don't bead up, and some spiders can't climb it. If those aren't a problem for you and your spider, glass works fine. If they are a problem, I have found clear plastic to work well.

What did the babies look like? Did you see them jumping like your adult jumper? If you post some pics of the mom and potential babies, we might be able to help answer for you.


kamakiri said:


> Naturally I'll keep you all posted!


Sounds awesome !


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## kamakiri (Oct 13, 2018)

The babies look like identical but miniature versions of the mom, who is, as far as I can see (the light is never stellar) khaki to earth tone brown, with white markings—not quite stripes, but linear dots—on her back. She's about the  size of this O—a little bigger—with legs. So maybe  *:Ö;  *Yeah! That's almost exactly her size. Her babies—now there just seems to be one—is extremely dark; almost black, but that could be just because it's so tiny.

Now, at 8:15 pm, I can't see any spiders at all. She seems to disappear in the potting soil from time to time sometimes for days at a time. After she caught the fly yesterday she disappeared and I have not seen her since. Now even the babies have disappeared . . .

It hadn't occurred to me about the glass and them not being able to climb on it—the mother seems to be too heavy to climb up the sides of this plastic container but sometimes she climbs the twig and then uses a silk thread to descend—the little ones were using that mode of locomotion up till yesterday but like I said, I haven't seen much of any of them all day today . . . which sets me to worrying!

But as soon as I get a chance I'll try to get some photos. I have a 60mm lens on my Canon which acts a bit like a microscope so I'll see if I can't get something with that!

Thanks for the advice and help. I thank you and they thank you! =+)

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## Joogvanhedel (Oct 14, 2018)

I think you have all the answers you need. Tip for feeding the fruit flies. I use a little bucket, of witch i put a little bit of olive oil at the edge from the inside. The flies cant walk over the oil, so you can easy catch them without they go everywhere..

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## kamakiri (Oct 14, 2018)

I'm getting a bit concerned over the spiderlings, who seem to have declined to just one (that I can see).

Should I remove it from the container, if so, how, and where to put it? Like I've said before, it's very, very small—about the size of this asterisk * —so anything I do needs to be very, very careful.

I've thought about the straw technique, but the possibilities of losing it inside the straw are large. I've thought of just letting it crawl onto a piece of paper, but that seems fraught with the possibilities of dropping it etc.

And if I do remove it to another container, how should I feed it/maintain survivable living conditions? How do they grow in the wild? Unfortunately I won't be able to gather pollen grains any time soon . . .

Andy advice greatly appreciated!


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## WildSpider (Oct 14, 2018)

If you have a small container (like a deli cup) for it, you could transfer it to that. That should help it be easier to keep track of it and easier for it to hunt. They don't have to eat everyday so it should hold til you get your fruit flies tomorrow.

I had to transfer a couple slings that were probably about this size the other day (if not smaller) and I'm pretty sure I put the tip of my finger near it and then used the tip of a piece of hay to _very gently_ touch its legs on the other side so that it would walk up onto my finger. Then I very carefully got it to go into its new enclosure using the same method (although, I'm guessing instead of the hay, I probably used the tip of my finger on my other hand just touching the legs barely again). This is how I get my spiders to move a lot of times. If you need help keeping your hand steady so you don't injure it, you can steady you hand by leaning against something else (e.g. the jar or your hand).

Edit:
I just remembered that actually this technique of moving them doesn't actually work that great with jumpers. They actually turn toward the straw touching their feet. It can work but it might take more time to get them where you want them to go. They are a difficult spider to "herd".

Knowing this, I might try another method like just putting your fingers all around it so that the only thing to do is to jump up onto your hand.


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## WildSpider (Oct 14, 2018)

kamakiri said:


> I'm getting a bit concerned over the spiderlings, who seem to have declined to just one (that I can see).
> 
> Should I remove it from the container, if so, how, and where to put it? Like I've said before, it's very, very small—about the size of this asterisk * —so anything I do needs to be very, very careful.
> 
> ...


I also want to reassure you that spiders in general are pretty easy pets. I have twenty-something true spiders along with a bunch of other pets and spiders are probably the easiest pets I have. IMO, if you have a cat (I love cats too btw), it requires more attentive care than your new little guys. This makes it great when you want to go on vacation or something as healthy spiders should be okay to be left for a few days, whereas with a cat, you might need someone to care for it.


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## kamakiri (Oct 14, 2018)

Heh! An abundance of options! I see what you're saying in all respects, but regrettably, the little 'uns are only spottable when they are out and about, and that means they are on the vertical walls of the container—which means a finger or anything designed to "herd" them will likely just knock them off the "wall," and into the regrettable potting soil that's at the bottom—just so you know, if you ever want a spider of pretty much any size to disappear, just put it onto some potting soil; it's a veritable cloaking device.

Still, I can (and will) tilt the container, with something as yet undetermined below the level of the spiderling to catch it. OR, if it can somehow be persuaded to crawl onto some cardstock, I can quickly just maneuver it into the new container.

Which brings me to containers: I just got back from the dollar store. Your comment about glass has greatly persuaded me that I can't have a glass container if they can't crawl up the walls. I'd hate to doom them to a  horizontal life; I know that past a certain size they wouldn't be able to crawl up anything vertical (except maybe rough concrete) so my thought was to get sturdy plastic containers (not the bendy type but the hard type) and then put strategic "roads" of some kind of tape on the inside that they could get traction on.

At this point this is still a temporary enclosure, as I want them to be able to feed and grow and I'm not too concerned with decor.

Alas, this is all very difficult to describe, so what I am going to do is effect the transfer of the spiderlings—there are now two definites and maybe more hiding in the potting soil—to the new container, and then take pics and maybe post them on my blog and put the links up here.

Yikes, I haven't been this nervous since my son was born, seventeen years ago . . .

Hopefully a dispatch of excellent news is to come in a couple of hours!

--Nick

PS this will be a good primer to any newtypes to this remarkable hobby. And yes, I have kitties too, and spiders are definitely lower maintenance! =+)


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## WildSpider (Oct 14, 2018)

kamakiri said:


> Your comment about glass has greatly persuaded me that I can't have a glass container if they can't crawl up the walls. I'd hate to doom them to a horizontal life; I know that past a certain size they wouldn't be able to crawl up anything vertical (except maybe rough concrete) so my thought was to get sturdy plastic containers (not the bendy type but the hard type) and then put strategic "roads" of some kind of tape on the inside that they could get traction on.


Sorry, didn't mean to imply that they have this difficult a time climbing. It just depends on the species. From what I've seen, jumpers can climb most surfaces. They might even climb the glass. It just depends on the species of spider. Every summer, I see Phidippus audax climbing way up high on our house.


kamakiri said:


> and then take pics


Pics sound great! Just a note: You can also post the pics directly to this thread by clicking Upload a File .

Good luck!


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## kamakiri (Oct 14, 2018)

Hoorah! I succeeded in transplanting one (1) spider child.

First, I had to go to the dollar store, because sue me if I couldn't find a single appropriate container in this entire house! And I didn't want to just repeat the original spiderhome—that would be unheroic.

So to the dollar store I went . . . and in the entire dollar store I managed to find a couple of hard plastic containers (I avoided glass, even though there were several glass candidates—but WildSpider made me leery of glass because the spiders might have difficulty scaling it, so I settled for a hard plastic container with a screw-type top.

I cut a circle out of the top and stretched a conveniently-sized stocking thingy that my wife just happened to have over it—the only problem now is that it no longer screws onto the container, but I'll just tape it shut for now. I won't even need that once the spiderling gets big enough—fingers crossed!

And instead of potting soil I just cut a circle out of grey cardboard so the container won't be completely barren, and I twist-tied a couple of fake twigs from a flower-store orchid so the spiders have something to  climb on (oh, and I put some paper masking tape on part of the inside so they have something to get traction on for climbing and, as we say here in Kweebec, "Viola!"

I managed to persuade Spiderling #1 to move onto the tip of a drinking straw cut into a spade shape at one end and just tapped her into her new home, and she was crawling around like a mountaineer straight up the tape that I put on the inside, threatening to escape (as you see in this video). (It was through my camera's excellent lens that I was able to see her in better detail; she looks exactly like her mummy!)

I posted some pics and the video to my sometime blog but just in case here are the pics of the two containers (not great pics but I'm not a great photographer). And tomorrow or the next day I'm expecting the live wingless fruit flies so hopefully everyone will get a square meal for a change.


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## WildSpider (Oct 14, 2018)

Awesome! Glad you got something up and working . The baby was so cute!


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## Smokehound714 (Oct 15, 2018)

aphids are a good portion of a young phidippus' diet, adults will eat them too.

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## kamakiri (Oct 15, 2018)

Thanks, guys for all the moral support! Wow, this is turning into a right saga.

This morning I got up and immediately went to inspect the new container. Try as I might, I couldn't find Asterisq . . . but these little bastards, as I've learned to my chagrin, can hide in the most inaccessible of places. They seem to pop out from nowhere . . . so I think she's under the lid among the stocking mesh. No worries—she'll come out when dinner is served.

But then I went to the original container, and, despairing of ever seeing another spider in there again, I shone my torch—a powerful MagLite number. And imagine my surprise when not one, but TWO little nippers streamed out from the potting soil—up the side of the container! (How those little legs get traction on the surface of a plastic container is beyond me!)

So I hurried into action and snared one of them with my straw/shovel trick. They really don't want to get on strange surfaces!

But I finally snagged him and into the new home he went, followed by his brother. That comes to three the number that *should* be in the new container.

But then imagine my surprise, upon shining the flashlight into the old container once more, when yet another little nipper emerged! The little rascals, hiding in plain sight all this time!

So I snagged him as well, which makes the new colony up to four members!

But they are SO TINY I can barely see them with my rheumy old eyes—they're like walking apostrophes.

And again, they managed to disappear into the canopy . . . and I mean DISAPPEAR. I can't find them anywhere! 

Question: do spiders inherently like "up"? do they tend to cluster in the uppermost reaches of an enclosure? Or do they just seek the closest shelter? I would imagine the latter . . .

But how long are they going to remain this small, and will they seriously be able to tackle fruit flies, who are twice there size?

There are no aphids, regrettably, in my insular Montreal world. Can I feed them honey? No, they would probably get trapped . . .

Anyway, it's not until tomorrow that the flies arrive. Until then, I will be living on a razor's edge . . .


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## kamakiri (Oct 15, 2018)

And Kai to the rescue . . . my 4 year old Norwegian Forest cat just knocked the old container off the table and on to the floor (a 4-foot drop). (He likes seeing what happens to things on a desk/table etc when it encounters gravity).

The potting soil ended up getting tossed around but it did expose Mother Spider, who was resting within . . . she was buzzing mad at being disturbed but seems none the worse for wear. However, no other spiderlings have appeared. It's lucky I transferred the spiderlings when I did, or they would have been shaken to pieces by that monstrous Cat-astrophe!


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## WildSpider (Oct 15, 2018)

kamakiri said:


> how long are they going to remain this small, and will they seriously be able to tackle fruit flies, who are twice there size?


Jumpers are very strong spiders. You'd be amazed at some of the stuff they can take down. Knowing this, I'm guessing that they'll be alright. How long they stay this small depends on a few factors. One of these factors is how often they eat. If you try to feed them pretty often, it should be faster.

If you see these guys suddenly eating a little less and/or building a small web retreat to hide in, you should leave them be until they come out again (that could be a while). This could indicate that they are in premolt (which means they are going to molt). It's best to try and remove food every 24 hours or so too (especially during this time) as many of the feeders can try to munch on molting spiders. When the spider is in premolt, it is vulnerable and will probably be seeking some peace and quiet. After they molt, they will have put on some more size hopefully .



kamakiri said:


> And Kai to the rescue . . . my 4 year old Norwegian Forest cat just knocked the old container off the table and on to the floor (a 4-foot drop). (He likes seeing what happens to things on a desk/table etc when it encounters gravity).
> 
> The potting soil ended up getting tossed around but it did expose Mother Spider, who was resting within . . . she was buzzing mad at being disturbed but seems none the worse for wear. However, no other spiderlings have appeared. It's lucky I transferred the spiderlings when I did, or they would have been shaken to pieces by that monstrous Cat-astrophe!


That's one thing I like about small spiders. They tend to be more durable than Ts .


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## BenLeeKing (Oct 15, 2018)

This is how I keep my jumping spider slings~
Many jumpers prefer to live on top of containers, so inverting the container might be a better way to keep them especially if you have a lot of slings, so they don't start spilling out in all direction every time you open the lid. Due to this I don't use substrate, and I also feed mine flightless fruit flies.
I'm not sure about maternal care in jumping spider, I know some will protect their young before this disperse. I think once dispersed it's a free for all. Not sure about the species you own, but the sling I have can be group housed for the first few instars!


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## WildSpider (Oct 15, 2018)

BenLeeKing said:


> This is how I keep my jumping spider slings~
> Many jumpers prefer to live on top of containers, so inverting the container might be a better way to keep them especially if you have a lot of slings, so they don't start spilling out in all direction every time you open the lid. Due to this I don't use substrate, and I also feed mine flightless fruit flies.
> I'm not sure about maternal care in jumping spider, I know some will protect their young before this disperse. I think once dispersed it's a free for all. Not sure about the species you own, but the sling I have can be group housed for the first few instars!


I've kept jumpers like that too (upside down without substrate) and it worked pretty well for me too. If you haven't already seen it, you might find it interesting what Basin79 tried for getting them to build their retreat someplace other than the top:




Cute little guys you've got by the way .

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## BenLeeKing (Oct 15, 2018)

WildSpider said:


> I've kept jumpers like that too (upside down without substrate) and it worked pretty well for me too. If you haven't already seen it, you might find it interesting what Basin79 tried for getting them to build their retreat someplace other than the top:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've tried to do this in my enclosure for my adult female~ but... I can't fit anymore things in there


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## kamakiri (Oct 17, 2018)

Yikes . . . sorry, guys, I just saw the last two replies. As usual, many thanks!

But now I have a new problem . . . the wingless fruit flies arrived today from Ottawa (I'm in Montreal) and . . . yikes! The seller is an owner of dart frogs (?) so his packaging is not specifically for spiders, but I see that I have a problem . . . there are HUNDREDS of very, very active flies . . . wingless, perhaps, but still, trying their damnedest to get out of every crack or crevice . . .

It looks like they've been housed in a plastic food-type container (the tall ones that look a bit like the kind you get from Chinese restos for soup) with some sort of feeding material at the bottom and a seemingly regular top except for multiple holes in it; the top is then covered from the inside with some sort of filtering material I guess to allow air to enter.)

Just wondering if this is a standard method of packaging or just this seller's particular method.

My question is (after hiding it away from my kitty's relentless attentions) how the HELL am I going to somehow get one or two flies out of the container without letting the whole swarm accompany them?

Furthermore, is it good to let several flies in with the mother spider (who is now alone in the old container—I transferred four spiderlings two or three days ago and they are in the new container) or should I try to just limit it to one fly (if indeed I can separate just one!) so I can quickly see whether or not she takes it?

*Sigh* I fear I am in this venture too deep, as I have not a clue how to proceed with all these minuscule yet vigorous forms of life!

As usual, your help is mutely appreciated well in advance . . . the saga continues!


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## WildSpider (Oct 18, 2018)

kamakiri said:


> Just wondering if this is a standard method of packaging or just this seller's particular method.


The containers in the below video are the kind of containers I usually see at petstores but I haven't really gone outside of pet stores to find feeders at this point. You can skip to 22 sec. to get to the fruitflies.







kamakiri said:


> My question is (after hiding it away from my kitty's relentless attentions) how the HELL am I going to somehow get one or two flies out of the container without letting the whole swarm accompany them?


Here's a video I found for that:







kamakiri said:


> Furthermore, is it good to let several flies in with the mother spider (who is now alone in the old container—I transferred four spiderlings two or three days ago and they are in the new container) or should I try to just limit it to one fly (if indeed I can separate just one!) so I can quickly see whether or not she takes it?


The fruitflies will be too small to easily keep the mom well fed. I catch wild insects to feed to my larger wild caught (WC) spiders but a lot of people on here like to purchase those at the petstores or like you did with your fruitflies. Crickets are a popular choice when buying them. I own a lot of stinky animals so I have enough flies (normal sized ones) and occasionally other kinds of insects where I live to feed all my spiders (except my T, I buy food for her).


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## kamakiri (Oct 18, 2018)

Well, I figured out a way to get the flies from their housing container . . . here's how I wrote it up for my blog:

​
I know, it looks like a fast-food smoothie of some kind. But the only "fast food" in this picture is fruit flies (not visible).

Inside the container are dozens of wingless fruit flies (about 3mm long) who are living on a self-sustaining medium.

My task was how to get the fruit flies from this container into the container with the mother jumping spider (currently all by herself in a container that has a thin layer of potting soil at the bottom) or to the container with the four spiderlings (about 1mm in diameter).

I hit upon a novel solution: I would create a sort of shuttle system, complete with air lock, shuttlecraft etc.

With an X-acto knife I first cut a hole in the filter paper of the lid where there was an existing hole in the plastic (see photo).

Then, I inverted a pill canister over the hole and waited.

Pretty soon, a couple of fruit flies wandered through the hole and into the pill container, and *snap*! I had the little bastards in the "shuttlecraft."

I taped over the hole with some scotch tape and put the top on the pill container and carried it over to the two spider houses.

The first "astroflies" descended into the New World of the mummy-spider's container. I watched them carefully; one of them got lost in the potting soil but the other one wandered around a bit among the (to it) boulders, getting closer and closer to the spider, who had come out of her shelter to see what the commotion was all about . . .  and pounced!

The end was quick. Astrofly had discovered the New World, and the natives were distinctly _unfriendly_.

The situation in the spiderlings' container was very different . . . the flies out-size the tiny spiders by about two to one, and as of this writing (24 hours later) the flies are energetically wandering the container while the babies look on hungrily . . . Dinner is parading itself in front of them but they don't have knife and forks big enough to dismember it . . . perhaps when the flies have lost some of their energy one or more of the kids will do what comes naturally to jumping spiders, and jump . . . !

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## kamakiri (Oct 19, 2018)

Ouf. The flies that I introduced to the spiderlings' container died. But the spiderlings are still there, waiting . . . Now I don't know what to do to feed them. They've lived their whole lives with nothing to eat, and they're not going to last much longer . . . PLUS, I saw another spiderling in the container with its mother. The two flies that I introduced to her container last night are gone.

I guess I need to get smaller flies.


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## WildSpider (Oct 19, 2018)

kamakiri said:


> Ouf. The flies that I introduced to the spiderlings' container died. But the spiderlings are still there, waiting . . . Now I don't know what to do to feed them. They've lived their whole lives with nothing to eat, and they're not going to last much longer . . . PLUS, I saw another spiderling in the container with its mother. The two flies that I introduced to her container last night are gone.
> 
> I guess I need to get smaller flies.


Have you tried prodding the fruit flies near the babies so its easier for them to catch?


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## kamakiri (Oct 19, 2018)

No, the babies get around very well—assuming they have good eyesight there was no way they could miss these two flies—there is nothing to hide behind. At many points the flies walked right past the little ones, but the problem is that the flies are literally three times the size of the spiders. I mean, these spiderlings are smaller than this asterisk: * and the flies are about this size: -= I'm actually surprised the spiderlings haven't eaten each other =+(

Anyway, the two fruit flies died—so their carcasses are just sitting there on the floor of the enclosure. I wish I could make tiny signs with big arrows pointing to them that say "Food."


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## WildSpider (Oct 19, 2018)

kamakiri said:


> No, the babies get around very well—assuming they have good eyesight there was no way they could miss these two flies—there is nothing to hide behind. At many points the flies walked right past the little ones, but the problem is that the flies are literally three times the size of the spiders. I mean, these spiderlings are smaller than this asterisk: * and the flies are about this size: -= I'm actually surprised the spiderlings haven't eaten each other =+(
> 
> Anyway, the two fruit flies died—so their carcasses are just sitting there on the floor of the enclosure. I wish I could make tiny signs with big arrows pointing to them that say "Food."


It's possible the fruit flies might still work but a smaller food available that I also use are Springtails. Maybe @pannaking22 or @NYAN have ideas on helping the jumpers to eat the fruit flies?


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## NYAN (Oct 19, 2018)

WildSpider said:


> It's possible the fruit flies might still work but a smaller food available that I also use are Springtails. Maybe @pannaking22 or @NYAN have ideas on helping the jumpers to eat the fruit flies?


I’ve found that fresh slings won’t eat right away. Usually it takes a few days. Try pinhead crickets, or prekilled prey since they are so small. Other people have used springtails too.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## WildSpider (Oct 19, 2018)

NYAN said:


> I’ve found that fresh slings won’t eat right away. Usually it takes a few days.


Do they have to go through a molt or two before they eat do you think? It seems like the species of slings I've raised usually molt a time or two before I've attempted to feed them.


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## kamakiri (Oct 19, 2018)

The person who sent me the fruit flies says she has smaller versions of them—maybe that's the springtails you're referring to. She sent them XPress post so I should have them by Monday!

Meanwhile I sprayed some water into the babies' container—at least they can get some moisture. Humans can live for forty days on nothing but water so I'd imagine spiders could do triple that.


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## WildSpider (Oct 19, 2018)

kamakiri said:


> The person who sent me the fruit flies says she has smaller versions of them—maybe that's the springtails you're referring to. She sent them XPress post so I should have them by Monday!
> 
> Meanwhile I sprayed some water into the babies' container—at least they can get some moisture. Humans can live for forty days on nothing but water so I'd imagine spiders could do triple that.


You might want to wipe the water up. It's pretty easy for baby jumpers to drown. If you're worried about water, you could probably put a damp paper towel in there and they can come drink off of that and then you can change it out every day or so so it doesn't mold.

One way to check for dehydration in general for spiders is the abdomen will be smaller and more shriveled. I think it also looks a bit flatter than normal on the top of the abdomen. If severe, the legs may begin to curl.


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## kamakiri (Oct 19, 2018)

The spray is really fine and it's only on one side of the container. It's actually just a dusting, really. The little ones are all on the other side of the container. To them, the container would appear to be about 30 stories tall and a city block wide =+)


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## pannaking22 (Oct 19, 2018)

Agreed with NYAN. They may take the fruit flies, but smaller prey would likely be accepted faster. Once they harden up though you'll have an answer.

Reactions: Like 1


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## kamakiri (Oct 19, 2018)

What's "harden up"?


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## WildSpider (Oct 20, 2018)

kamakiri said:


> What's "harden up"?


Just what it sounds like . Right now the exoskeleton is a bit soft and it will eventually get harder. After a spider molts, they will be soft like this and the spider needs to be left alone for a while since its so vulnerable at this time. Usually food is not given for some amount of time (the amount depends on the spider's size) to let it harden up as the prey could hurt the spider or the spider's fangs can break off (since they're soft too).


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## kamakiri (Oct 20, 2018)

Wow . . . you basically need a microscope to see these babies—they look like black specks against any background—and it's only when they begin to move that you see that they're alive.

I feel so sorry for them not being able to eat anything but I console myself that in the wild, they no doubt would have died long ago.

On Monday the smaller flies arrive so let's pray these little guys can hold out till then . . .


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## pandabacon (Oct 20, 2018)

kamakiri said:


> Wow . . . you basically need a microscope to see these babies—they look like black specks against any background—and it's only when they begin to move that you see that they're alive.
> 
> I feel so sorry for them not being able to eat anything but I console myself that in the wild, they no doubt would have died long ago.
> 
> On Monday the smaller flies arrive so let's pray these little guys can hold out till then . . .


I thought the babies would cannibalize each other if no other food was available? Eventually you end up with the bigger ones who survived. Probably better to get food if you want to release or maximize how many you end up with but they should work it out right?


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## kamakiri (Oct 20, 2018)

Aargh . . . I hope not! So far they have all seemed to be very friendly to each other (the mother could have eaten the babies if she had wished, but she didn't). So maybe the kids will be a chip off the old block!

No matter what, I have to wait till Monday and then pray for a miracle. Let's hope the flies are small enough and the spiderlings are hungry enough!


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## WildSpider (Oct 20, 2018)

pandabacon said:


> I thought the babies would cannibalize each other if no other food was available? Eventually you end up with the bigger ones who survived. Probably better to get food if you want to release or maximize how many you end up with but they should work it out right?


This is true. Cannibalism happens in keepers' care just as it happens in the wild. From my experience, yes, at the end you would just have the  happy fat ones.


kamakiri said:


> Aargh . . . I hope not! So far they have all seemed to be very friendly to each other (the mother could have eaten the babies if she had wished, but she didn't). So maybe the kids will be a chip off the old block!
> 
> No matter what, I have to wait till Monday and then pray for a miracle. Let's hope the flies are small enough and the spiderlings are hungry enough!


I read that keeping them together for a week or two after they've hatched or while they don't look like they're having problems with each other should be fine. If they start acting differently or the time is up, it might be a good idea to separate them as cannibalism can occur, even with more food available. Supposedly, cannibalism happens a lot with these guys.

I usually separate my true spider slings when they first start to wander around like they're ready to leave the next but it seems jumping spiders kind of do this right off the bat so they're a bit trickier.


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## kamakiri (Oct 22, 2018)

SPIDERS/BABIES UPDATE

Sorry for the silence, but it's been a little anxious around here while I waited for the shipment of "even smaller flies" that my incredibly helpful contact in Ottawa promised. 

Since I wasn't receiving it until today, I figured I could only worry myself by looking in the spiderlings' container; if they did, there wasn't a whole lot I could do about it and if they cannibalised each other there wasn't a whole lot I could do about _*that*_, either.

So indeed today the new flies arrived in the mail, but it looked like they had been through a lot. Whatever the medium is that keeps them alive—it looks like applesauce but it probably isn't—had been slung around the container and was adhering to every part of it, including the top, and a quick glance told me that there were not a whole lot of flies that survived.

However, the ones that _did_ looked to be just the right size—about as big as this equals sign: =

But when you consider that the spiderlings are about the size of this asterisk: * you can see that * = are still a bit of a mismatch.

Through my "spigot" method (see above) I managed to siphon off about five flies, which I introduced to the spiderlings' container.

Alas, the spiderlings still seem intimidated by the size of the flies, plus the flies are energetic—they must appear to the tiny spiders like race cars thundering past.

So the spiderlings seem intimidated. When one of the flies began to zoom up the side of the container and I saw that a spider was precisely in its path, I thought "Now the fun begins!" but the fly just buzzed straight into the spider and they both fell off the side of the container and the fly rushed away.

So . . . I don't know what else to do except put as many flies as possible into the cage and hope the spiderlings can somehow screw up the nerve to catch one—what do they do? Jump on a fly and inject venom, then sit back and wait for the venom to take effect?

I imagine that's how it goes but if so I guess I will have to wait a while and see how things develop.

In the _other_ container, wherein lies the mother spider and at least one baby, nothing is stirring; but in that container there is a thin layer of potting soil for the spiders to hide in, so that is what I imagine they are doing.

As you recall, last week I introduced some regular sized fruit flies and the mother at least grabbed one—I don't now about the little one. I will have to check the cage in more detail later on.

But one big surprise is the hardiness of the tiny ones—if I'm right they have not eaten a _thing_ since they hatched, probably around three weeks now. I wish I could put in some cookies or something but I know they don't eat sugar, though right about now that would be the best thing for them . . . yes, maybe a Black Forest cake with lots of creamy frosting and—

Oh, sorry.

I wish I could provide photos but there isn't much to look at at the moment!

I will keep you posted.

Spider count at present: one mature jumper, 4-5 hatchlings.


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## kamakiri (Oct 22, 2018)

And the mother spider is alive and very well! Perhaps someone can ID her? Apologies for the poor video.

Reactions: Like 2


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## WildSpider (Oct 23, 2018)

kamakiri said:


> what do they do? Jump on a fly and inject venom, then sit back and wait for the venom to take effect?


From what I've seen, they seem to mostly rely on brute force to take down prey. I'm sure the venom does assist in helping subdue their prey though. So this means, they dive for the prey, wrestle it if necessary, and come out victorious.


kamakiri said:


> And the mother spider is alive and very well! Perhaps someone can ID her? Apologies for the poor video.


Wow, very cool jumper. I'm not sure what species she is. You could post another thread to ask for that and someone might be able to ID her .


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## Aline (Jun 4, 2019)

Hi!
I'm trying to raise some tiny baby jumping spiders and I found your thread. How did it end up, did they eventually eat the fruit flies? I'd love to hear what happened! Thanks !


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## kamakiri (Jun 5, 2019)

Hi Aline,

Wow! My poor spider is ancient history, but I'll try to recall what happened . . . I related how I found my spider just somehow jumping around my apartment on the 8th floor—I have no idea how he got there, but I suspect he hitched a ride on some vegetable or plant—and I put him into a container with some potting soil and a couple of twigs in it, never having had a spider for a pet but somehow guessing things right.

At first I had no idea how to take care of him, so I did some research and discovered that I should probably try to give him fruit flies.

I had no idea where to get a fruit fly but again I got lucky when I discovered some buzzing around some fruit (!) in my kitchen. I caught one and put it in his container and he caught it! (I have the video somewhere).

But what freaked me out was that one morning I went to look in his container and I saw the most unbelievable thing—a bunch of very, VERY tiny spiders all crawling merrily around the container.

So HE was a SHE! The weird thing was that she didn't seem to have an egg sac or any other sign that she was "pregnant" but after the babies appeared, I knew I had to do something drastic, or they would all die.

I managed to find someone selling fruit flies (wingless) not far from me (in Ottawa—I'm in Montreal) so I ordered some.

Well, I knew from these boards that the probability was high that the babies would either be eaten by the mother or eat each other, so I briefly separated the babies in their own container.

Then I introduced the fruit flies to both containers. The mother would eat them but they were far too big for the little ones, who were about as big as the head of a pin. So I ordered smaller fruit flies, but by for whatever reason the little spiders either were too small for the little flies or . . .?

I don't know, but one by one the babies died. None of the fruit flies was eaten by them.

The mom survived another two or three months, but one day she refused to eat the fruit flies I introduced to her cage and shortly thereafter she passed away . . . =+(

So that's the story . . . my wife has strongly discouraged me of keeping any other spiders as pets, although I get quite a few large house spiders . . . but they aren't the same as my little jumping spider! Definitely the nicest spider I have ever known.

Please let us know your story! I for one would love to hear it.

All the best

Nick

Reactions: Like 1


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## Cororon (Jun 9, 2019)

If I had a local hoppy (jumping spider) that had babies, when they started to run around in the container I would have taken the it out in the wild so they could spread. It would have been too much work to keep tens of them. 

The youngest spiderlings don't eat. They still have nutrients from the egg yolk left in their butts. I haven't taken care of any spiders that young, so I'm not sure when they start to eat. But left together for too long they may start to eat eachother.


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## Aline (Jun 17, 2019)

Thank's for sharing your story, Nick. Did you set the other babies free? I have a few egg sacs. The babies have hatched but not come out yet. I'll probably wait for a while before I feed them, worst-case scenario some of the bigger ones will eat the smaller ones... but then they will be big enough to eat the fruit flies.
Do you know what species of jumping spider you have? I believe here in Montreal we have a zebra jumping spider which is pretty common in houses.
Cheers!


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## kamakiri (Jun 17, 2019)

Aline said:


> I believe here in Montreal we have a zebra jumping spider which is pretty common in houses.
> Cheers!


Heh . . . well, I don't know if you can tell, but I'm in Montreal, too! Perhaps we should get together and discuss our various spider adventures. Just two days ago I was having a few games of chess at the Duc de Lorraine, just near my house, when my chess partner noticed something hanging from his queen which he had just lost to one of my plays.

At first it looked like a large peppercorn was somehow floating three inches below his hand when I suddenly saw that it wasn't a peppercorn—it was a spider, hanging from its silk thread. I almost leapt out of my chair in my haste to catch the little guy, snaring him in my palm, but true to form, he sproinged off my hand like a miniature Mexican jumping bean and into the void.

I had no idea that jumping spiders were so numerous around these [parts, but he was of the zebra-striped variety, just like my little guy was last year. My guess is that they were both the Audax variety . . . the one I had last year was very small, never any bigger than a large peppercorn, and her babies were barely visible with the naked eye. Like I said, they all either died or were eaten, or ate each other—it was hard to tell.

I don't know what to advise—you can probably find the answer elsewhere on this site—but I would separate the babies from the mother as soon as possible, so that they won't get eaten.

If you need to order some wingless fruit flies, I know a dealer just across the border in Ontario who is super reliable and sends them out promptly, plus there is an outfit called Spiders Canada, or something like that, pretty close to Montreal. If you need more info just let me know.

Best regards to your little pets and the very best of luck to you!

Nick


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