# I'm questioning my setup



## AmberDawnDays (Jan 7, 2017)

Im starting to wonder if my T setul has enough ventilation. There are 16 good sized ventilation holes and 4 smaller ones in this enclosure (so 20 total). I'm questioning whether that's enough ventilation. Basically all the ventilation holes are on 2 sides of the enclosure, but they are towards the top, bottom, front and back. The pics will show what I'm talking about. Because there aren't any on the actual top or back, I'm wondering if I should put some there?

Also I fear that her enclosure is too big and she hides all the time in her log maybe because of this. It's probably not wise though to switch her to a smaller enclosure though, right? Too much stress on her to move about too often?

I think I've had her 3 weeks now and she seems to be doing well. She hasn't shown any signs of stress and she eats well. I just want her to be healthy and happy as all T mamas and dads want for their little Ts.

I did post her enclosure somewhere before and nobody mentioned adding more ventilation. I'm just questioning this probably for no reason, but I just want to be extra sure that it's an adequate setup because I keep reading avic horror stories. 

My T is a suspected female avic avic with a 2.5 ish legspan.


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## Crone Returns (Jan 7, 2017)

More plants.  They like it crowded. Makes a lot of points in which to make web. And it's probably just me, but I'd add a lot more ventilation circling the container, not on the lid. Remember everybody advised cross ventilation.  Tag viper69 or cold blood. They'll help you better.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Crone Returns (Jan 7, 2017)

And venom...


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## AmberDawnDays (Jan 7, 2017)

crone said:


> More plants.  They like it crowded. Makes a lot of points in which to make web. And it's probably just me, but I'd add a lot more ventilation circling the container, not on the lid. Remember everybody advised cross ventilation.  Tag viper69 or cold blood. They'll help you better.


Thanks! I keep wanting to get more plants and maybe hot glue them in or stick them through holes. It's on my agenda for tomorrow. I will definitely add in some more ventilation holes, but I think I will go with smaller holes than what I have already. I'll put some towards the top and on the back of the enclosure.


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## AmberDawnDays (Jan 7, 2017)

People did tell me before to get more plants. Is there a good place to get them other than pet stores? Like maybe a good online website? I prefer to shop online, but with stuff like this I like to go with a recommendation. I'd hate to end up with something that could harm my T.


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## Crone Returns (Jan 7, 2017)

AmberDawnDays said:


> Thanks! I keep wanting to get more plants and maybe hot glue them in or stick them through holes. It's on my agenda for tomorrow. I will definitely add in some more ventilation holes, but I think I will go with smaller holes than what I have already. I'll put some towards the top and on the back of the enclosure.


Yeah I made smaller holes. 
And when I say hot glue is hot it is. I used it to glue the plants on the corkbark in my Avic's cage (A. avicularia)  First time I used it. Yeeeow!!

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Crone Returns (Jan 7, 2017)

AmberDawnDays said:


> People did tell me before to get more plants. Is there a good place to get them other than pet stores? Like maybe a good online website? I prefer to shop online, but with stuff like this I like to go with a recommendation. I'd hate to end up with something that could harm my T.


I went in to the lps and got exoterra plastic plants. You can also buy zoomed. For me it's easier to mosey 3 blocks to the lps than go online. I hear Amazon's selling T stuff.


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## cold blood (Jan 7, 2017)

I think that looks fine, i wouldnt be worried about the ventilation.   A few more plants could always be added, especially considering the smaller size of yours.   Lots of cover to web tunnels through will help acclimation.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Informative 1


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## cold blood (Jan 7, 2017)

I get zoo med plants at a big pet store for 4-5 bucks....and i just cut or pull them apart as needed.   One clump can go a long way with slings.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Ungoliant (Jan 7, 2017)

AmberDawnDays said:


> People did tell me before to get more plants. Is there a good place to get them other than pet stores? Like maybe a good online website? I prefer to shop online, but with stuff like this I like to go with a recommendation. I'd hate to end up with something that could harm my T.


Fake plants are cheaper at craft stores. Just make sure you wash them before using them, as they may have lubricants (or other things) left over from the manufacturing process.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Helpful 1


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## cold blood (Jan 7, 2017)

Ungoliant said:


> Fake plants are cheaper at craft stores. Just make sure you wash them before using them, as they may have lubricants (or other things) left over from the manufacturing process.


True, and i use them occassionly, but beware, they often have dyes and perfumes, so just washing them isnt even close enough IMO.  I soak them for weeks, changing water daily, and for the first week or two, theres a soapy film on the water.  I use them at times, but it takes a long time soaking and cleaning before im comfortable actually using them.

Reactions: Agree 3 | Informative 1 | Helpful 1


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## AmberDawnDays (Jan 7, 2017)

crone said:


> For me it's easier to mosey 3 blocks to the lps than go online. I hear Amazon's selling T stuff.


I'm opposite, but mostly because the people in the stores and lines irritate me. Don't let this comment fool you, I'm not completely reclusive.  I like to shop around and that's hard to do unless I go to like 4 stores, so I do 90% of my shopping online. 



cold blood said:


> A few more plants could always be added, especially considering the smaller size of yours.   Lots of cover to web tunnels through will help acclimation.


I'm hoping she webs the place up really nice. So far she has only webbed inside her log. I'm thinking it's because she's still getting acclimated and she needs more anchor points.


Ungoliant said:


> Fake plants are cheaper at craft stores. Just make sure you wash them before using them, as they may have lubricants (or other things) left over from the manufacturing process.


Good to know. I'm always down for cheap ways to do things.



cold blood said:


> True, and i use them occassionly, but beware, they often have dyes and perfumes, so just washing them isnt even close enough IMO.  I soak them for weeks, changing water daily, and for the first week or two, theres a soapy film on the water.  I use them at times, but it takes a long time soaking and cleaning before im comfortable actually using them.


Haha, yikes! Maybe I'll get some ready to go ones and then get some that I can prepare like this for future use.


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## Ungoliant (Jan 7, 2017)

AmberDawnDays said:


> Haha, yikes! Maybe I'll get some ready to go ones and then get some that I can prepare like this for future use.


TBF, I would also wash any of the "ready-to-go" plants before use. (They're probably made in some of the same factories that make the craft plants.)

Basically, I pre-wash anything that is washable: enclosures, water dishes, and hides (not made out of a porous material).

Reactions: Like 2


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## AmberDawnDays (Jan 7, 2017)

Ungoliant said:


> TBF, I would also wash any of the "ready-to-go" plants before use. (They're probably made in some of the same factories that make the craft plants.)


Also good to know. I don't think I washed my other ones before putting them in, but you make a good solid point here. I only have plastic ones though. I havent gotten any silk ones yet. Do you prefer silk or plastic?


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## Ungoliant (Jan 7, 2017)

AmberDawnDays said:


> Also good to know. I don't think I washed my other ones before putting them in, but you make a good solid point here. I only have plastic ones though. I havent gotten any silk ones yet. Do you prefer silk or plastic?


I don't have a strong preference; both seem to work fine. I have heard some people say they prefer plastic due to dyes that may be in the silk. (Not that plastic is necessarily free of dyes.)

The main reason I pre-wash is that there are often lubricants used during the manufacturing process (e.g., when removing objects from molds) that may not have been washed off. I don't know if these are harmful to Ts, but why take a chance?

Reactions: Like 1


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## SausageinaNet (Jan 7, 2017)

As a lot of people already wrote the only thing that you might want to improve are a few more anchor points for webs. You can improve ventilation but imo for avics you just have to find the balance between ventilation and moisture and you will be fine. People that stress excessive ventilation with avics are usually the once who dump a gallon of water in their enclosures every day.


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## AmberDawnDays (Jan 7, 2017)

Thanks everyone. I'm definitely going to get more anchor points and post pics, hopefully tomorrow. I put a huge water dish in there and keep the substrate dry except a small area around the water dish where I have overflowed the water dish.


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## Kennyg (Jan 7, 2017)

Im glad i saw this thread as well now , i just ordered myself a A. versicolor sling this morning. couple helpful tips to keep in mind  

but your ventilation looks pretty good from what ive read about them

Reactions: Like 1


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## Trenor (Jan 7, 2017)

Like CB said it wouldn't hurt to have a little more clutter. Given that, I think your Avics enclosure is fine. She is staying in the log so much because it is a nice safe place for her to hide. My Avics make web tunnels (I've not given them cork tube before) and do the same thing. They sit in the heavy web funnel till they have to come out. Usually it's for food or water then they go back in. I imagine if you sneak into the room late at night you'll eventually see her out exploring an putting out some web.



AmberDawnDays said:


> I put a huge water dish in there and keep the substrate dry except a small area around the water dish where I have overflowed the water dish.


I would just fill the dish and not over fill it. They will go down to drink and IME Avics don't need the extra moisture.

Good luck.

Reactions: Like 1 | Helpful 1


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## AmberDawnDays (Jan 7, 2017)

Kennyg said:


> Im glad i saw this thread as well now , i just ordered myself a A. versicolor sling this morning. couple helpful tips to keep in mind


I think husbandry for slings is a little different, but I've never cared for any slings yet.


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## Abyss (Jan 7, 2017)

Craft stores and extensive washing FTW

Reactions: Agree 1


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## darkness975 (Jan 7, 2017)

The size of the enclosure is not detrimental to the Tarantula's health unless it is too small.  If that were the case then none would survive in nature. 
With a larger enclosure you just have to make sure that it is feeding.  In larger enclosures it is possible for the prey item to evade the spider.

Add some more plants to the top for webbing but no reason to change the enclosure. It will grow anyway.

Reactions: Helpful 1


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## AmberDawnDays (Jan 7, 2017)

I added some plants to the top/side area. I don't want to add any to the actual top because that's where I open the enclosure and I want to try and avoid messing up her webs when I open the enclosure. Let me know what you all think. I have more I can add, if it needs it.

One image shows from the front and the other shows from the top.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Venom1080 (Jan 7, 2017)

looks like she'll do great in there!

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## AmberDawnDays (Jan 7, 2017)

darkness975 said:


> With a larger enclosure you just have to make sure that it is feeding.  In larger enclosures it is possible for the prey item to evade the spider.


Because she hangs out in her log, I just drop her a cricket right down into the log and she jumps right on them. I think if I dropped them just anywhere, she might have a hard time, but I make it easy for her.


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## viper69 (Jan 7, 2017)

AmberDawnDays said:


> Also good to know. I don't think I washed my other ones before putting them in, but you make a good solid point here. I only have plastic ones though. I havent gotten any silk ones yet. Do you prefer silk or plastic?


With that question, I don't believe you have tried to clean off T poop that frequently. Plastic for me please!


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## viper69 (Jan 7, 2017)

AmberDawnDays said:


> Because she hangs out in her log, I just drop her a cricket right down into the log and she jumps right on them. I think if I dropped them just anywhere, she might have a hard time, but I make it easy for her.


She's trained you well already. No need to baby your pet, it's a wild animal, an excellent and PATIENT hunter. Throw crickets in and watch the magic.

Pay attention to abdomen size if you are concerned about whether it's eating or not, hydrated or not. Always keep track of how many crickets went in, and how many were eaten.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## viper69 (Jan 7, 2017)

AmberDawnDays said:


> I added some plants to the top/side area. I don't want to add any to the actual top because that's where I open the enclosure and I want to try and avoid messing up her webs when I open the enclosure. Let me know what you all think. I have more I can add, if it needs it.
> 
> One image shows from the front and the other shows from the top.


More dense would be better, upper 2/3 of container.


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## Ghost56 (Jan 7, 2017)

Like viper said, just toss one in one day. I can almost guarantee she'll get it if she wants it. There's a video of an avic on youtube snatching flies out of mid air that were nothing but a micro snack for it, but it just shows how great they are at hunting down prey.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## viper69 (Jan 7, 2017)

Ghost56 said:


> Like viper said, just toss one in one day. I can almost guarantee she'll get it if she wants it. There's a video of an avic on youtube snatching flies out of mid air that were nothing but a micro snack for it, but it just shows how great they are at hunting down prey.


People that tong feed or spoon feed their Ts as a general method are missing out on the real beauty of nature. There are tons of tong feeding videos on YouTube, not only is tong feeding dangerous to your T, it's boring as can be. Might as well own a Pitcher Plant at that rate.

It's much more fascinating to learn just how sensitive their sense of touch is when they sense prey etc and come out. It's more stimulating than any man-made entertainment.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Ghost56 (Jan 7, 2017)

viper69 said:


> It's much more fascinating to learn just how sensitive their sense of touch is when they sense prey etc and come out. It's more stimulating than any man-made entertainment.


It's honestly mind blowing how easy they can sense things. I accidentally dropped a cricket right above mine one day, and she was facing the ground. The cricket never touched a single thing, and she never spun around, but she grabbed it out of mid fall the second it was beside her. It really is amazing.


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## AmberDawnDays (Jan 8, 2017)

viper69 said:


> With that question, I don't believe you have tried to clean off T poop that frequently. Plastic for me please!


You are right! I haven't cleaned any T poop yet. 


viper69 said:


> She's trained you well already. No need to baby your pet, it's a wild animal, an excellent and PATIENT hunter. Throw crickets in and watch the magic.


I suppose she is patient, but maybe I'm not. I like watching her catch her food, but I also don't have all day. I'm positive that she doesn't need me to drop her food into the log, but it ensures I see the take down.


viper69 said:


> People that tong feed or spoon feed their Ts as a general method are missing out on the real beauty of nature. There are tons of tong feeding videos on YouTube, not only is tong feeding dangerous to your T


I have used tongs, but generally I drop a cricket in from the black tube that comes with my cricket keeper. All the crickets always hide in the tube, so I just tap one out into her log. I only use tongs when I want to feed a specific cricket for whatever reason. I was going by size at first, but now I just shake one in.


Ghost56 said:


> I accidentally dropped a cricket right above mine one day, and she was facing the ground. The cricket never touched a single thing, and she never spun around, but she grabbed it out of mid fall the second it was beside her. It really is amazing.


That's pretty cool and would be neat to see.


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## AmberDawnDays (Jan 8, 2017)

viper69 said:


> More dense would be better, upper 2/3 of container.


I'll have to play around with it to add in some more stuff. How do you arrange arboreal setups, if you wouldn't mind showing me an example? Im thinking of putting a bunch of sticks in or something because I don't know what else to add in.


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## Ungoliant (Jan 8, 2017)

viper69 said:


> With that question, I don't believe you have tried to clean off T poop that frequently. Plastic for me please!


LOL, my Avics get plastic plants, but in the years I've had them, they've never pooped on the plants. They prefer the glass or their water dishes.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kennyg (Jan 8, 2017)

AmberDawnDays said:


> I think husbandry for slings is a little different, but I've never cared for any slings yet.


slings are just a bit more affordable for me, as well as my local supplier only has slings at the momment , i did consider getting a juvi but will take what there is. 

when i started in the hobby a friend one mine was selling T's and almost everything i got was a sling so im a little used to them now after rasing a couple

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Andrea82 (Jan 8, 2017)

AmberDawnDays said:


> I'll have to play around with it to add in some more stuff. How do you arrange arboreal setups, if you wouldn't mind showing me an example? Im thinking of putting a bunch of sticks in or something because I don't know what else to add in.


Don't bother with sticks, your Avic will like some more of those flower branches you already have in there, and some more of those other plants.  just add double the stuff you already have in there except for the bark. Think of the canope of a tree or a forest, and simulate that with plants around half way and up to the top.

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## AmberDawnDays (Jan 8, 2017)

Andrea82 said:


> Don't bother with sticks, your Avic will like some more of those flower branches you already have in there, and some more of those other plants.  just add double the stuff you already have in there except for the bark. Think of the canope of a tree or a forest, and simulate that with plants around half way and up to the top.


I will definitely do that. I have another branch like the one I already put in and I have lots more green leaf stuff. I won't be able to get to it until Tuesday night or Wednesday though because I'm headed out of town for a couple days, but I'll update with pics when I get it done within a few days.

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## Andrea82 (Jan 8, 2017)

AmberDawnDays said:


> I will definitely do that. I have another branch like the one I already put in and I have lots more green leaf stuff. I won't be able to get to it until Tuesday night or Wednesday though because I'm headed out of town for a couple days, but I'll update with pics when I get it done within a few days.


It will do fine until then, nice and snug in its corktube


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## viper69 (Jan 8, 2017)

AmberDawnDays said:


> I'll have to play around with it to add in some more stuff. How do you arrange arboreal setups, if you wouldn't mind showing me an example? Im thinking of putting a bunch of sticks in or something because I don't know what else to add in.


I don't have pictures of my adult setups. There is no magic to it, but I do understand why it might sound there is. All I do is put about 0.5-1" of sub for a 12" tall setup, usually a flat slab of cork bark to serve as a lean-to, a water bowl at the front by the door for easy access. The plants are ZooMed, and I string them up so it's a bit dense. They like cork a lot IME, likely because it offers them a firm surface to stand/rest on.



Ungoliant said:


> LOL, my Avics get plastic plants, but in the years I've had them, they've never pooped on the plants. They prefer the glass or their water dishes.


Clearly gravity is not functioning the way it should in your home. You may need to call Dr. Hawking

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2


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## AmberDawnDays (Jan 8, 2017)

How often is it necessary to clean the poop off the leaves and walls of the enclosure? Also how often to you change out the substrate. The guy at the LPS said every 2-3 months, but I want to be sure that is accurate. He has 7 Ts himself, so I would hope he knew what he was talking about, but you never know.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Venom1080 (Jan 8, 2017)

AmberDawnDays said:


> How often is it necessary to clean the poop off the leaves and walls of the enclosure? Also how often to you change out the substrate. The guy at the LPS said every 2-3 months, but I want to be sure that is accurate. He has 7 Ts himself, so I would hope he knew what he was talking about, but you never know.


Literally never. Cleaning poop is only good for a better view and Sub only had to be changed if there's a ton of mold or mites.

Reactions: Agree 3 | Helpful 1


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## BobBarley (Jan 8, 2017)

Venom1080 said:


> Literally never. Cleaning poop is only good for a better view and Sub only had to be changed if there's a ton of mold or mites.


Agreed.  I have personally never cleaned poop, and have only rehoused once the specimen got too big for the enclosure it was in.  I don't feel mold is a cause to rehouse in itself, however, I rarely ever get it.  However, OP, you're going to want to pick out any boluses you find in the enclosure.

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## AmberDawnDays (Jan 8, 2017)

BobBarley said:


> However, OP, you're going to want to pick out any boluses you find in the enclosure.


I havent found any bolus remains yet and she's eaten several crickets, so there should be some. I think she hides them in her log.


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## BobBarley (Jan 8, 2017)

AmberDawnDays said:


> I havent found any bolus remains yet and she's eaten several crickets, so there should be some. I think she hides them in her log.


Yeah, that should be fine.  I don't think it would be in the log, the t's tend to place the bolus far away from themselves and/or in a water source (your waterdish for example).  Many times boluses blend in with the sub and are small and hard to see.

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## Ungoliant (Jan 9, 2017)

AmberDawnDays said:


> How often is it necessary to clean the poop off the leaves and walls of the enclosure?


I clean poop when it is accessible and easy to clean without disturbing the tarantula -- and this is just for my view, not because the tarantula cares.

However, if I can find the boluses, I remove them.



AmberDawnDays said:


> Also how often to you change out the substrate. The guy at the LPS said every 2-3 months, but I want to be sure that is accurate.


Other than normal rehousing (cage upgrades), the only time I've changed the substrate is when it developed mold around the water dish due to the area being constantly damp. Since then, I've started rotating where the water dish is located so that a previously damp area has time to dry. Problem solved.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Helpful 1


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## viper69 (Jan 9, 2017)

AmberDawnDays said:


> How often is it necessary to clean the poop off the leaves and walls of the enclosure? Also how often to you change out the substrate. The guy at the LPS said every 2-3 months, but I want to be sure that is accurate. He has 7 Ts himself, so I would hope he knew what he was talking about, but you never know.


You'd think someone with 7 Ts would know what they are talking about. Don't let that fool you. Number is not an indication of knowledge. As an example, I know plenty of people with a lot more reptiles than I have currently, and they keep their animals in the worst conditions. 

Just be mindful that's all.

How busy do you want to be in cleaning hah?

I don't recommend leaving till the walls are more white than not, poops gives off an odor.

Also, and I have no scientific data for this, but only observational data over the years: I think mites, so called grain mites, are attracted to T poop. It's well known by science they are attracted to moisture.

But when I have found them in my NW containers, they are exclusively in heaviest concentration around vent holes that have the most poop by it. They are in greatest number in the Avic containers with the most poop!! I can't explain it, but it's something I have always noticed for my Avics.

Sub change out when it gets dirty from poop, spot cleaning mostly, but not always. No science behind it.

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## AmberDawnDays (Jan 12, 2017)

I added even more clutter to her enclosure today. This little avic is extremely docile. She never lifts a leg, kicks a hair or even shakes her rump at me when I scoot her from her enclosure into a kk so I can mess around with her enclosure. Though she did try to make a break for it today after I scooted her back into her enclosure. She decided she would rather be on the outside. That's what I get for trying to take a pic of her enclosure from the top view with her inside. Here is a pic of her mid escape attempt.


I successfully scooted her back in and shut the lid. She's a content little girl. I have noticed since adding in more clutter to her enclosure that she hangs out more on the outside of her log. I imagine that's because she doesn't feel quite as exposed anymore now that there is more stuff to hide her.

I'm attaching more pics of her cluttered up enclosure. Please take a look and let me know what you think.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Trenor (Jan 12, 2017)

AmberDawnDays said:


> I added even more clutter to her enclosure today. This little avic is extremely docile. She never lifts a leg, kicks a hair or even shakes her rump at me when I scoot her from her enclosure into a kk so I can mess around with her enclosure. Though she did try to make a break for it today after I scooted her back into her enclosure. She decided she would rather be on the outside. That's what I get for trying to take a pic of her enclosure from the top view with her inside. Here is a pic of her mid escape attempt.
> View attachment 229157
> 
> I successfully scooted her back in and shut the lid. She's a content little girl. I have noticed since adding in more clutter to her enclosure that she hangs out more on the outside of her log. I imagine that's because she doesn't feel quite as exposed anymore now that there is more stuff to hide her.
> ...


That's a good looking Avic setup. Lots of nice webbing anchors for your T.

IME they don't really seem to kick hairs as much as they rub them on you if you get close.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## AmberDawnDays (Jan 12, 2017)

Trenor said:


> That's a good looking Avic setup. Lots of nice webbing anchors for your T.
> 
> IME they don't really seem to kick hairs as much as they rub them on you if you get close.


Yesterday she threw up a threat pose at a cricket. It was hilarious. I didnt even know she was capable of such behavior. I had to laugh. She refused to eat it and basically tried to scare it off, I think.


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## Trenor (Jan 12, 2017)

AmberDawnDays said:


> Yesterday she threw up a threat pose at a cricket. It was hilarious. I didnt even know she was capable of such behavior. I had to laugh. She refused to eat it and basically tried to scare it off, I think.


With all the moving around she did I wouldn't blame her for being moody.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## AmberDawnDays (Jan 12, 2017)

Trenor said:


> With all the moving around she did I wouldn't blame her for being moody.


Yeah twice in one week. That's a lot on her. I hope to leave her be for a good long time.

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## Trenor (Jan 12, 2017)

Once she webs up a home and you give her enough gifts of food and water I'm sure she will overlook these latest transgressions.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2 | Love 1


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## MarksTs (Jan 13, 2017)

I always have ghost dwarf woodlice in my enclosure there my cleaners check out my enclosure setups you might be able to take something from the videos 
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLtBciuH9_jYP-EJR57hDgA


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## viper69 (Jan 13, 2017)

AmberDawnDays said:


> I didnt even know she was capable of such behavior.


Even E. sp Yellow and E sp Red will do it.


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## AmberDawnDays (Jan 14, 2017)

Trenor said:


> Once she webs up a home and you give her enough gifts of food and water I'm sure she will overlook these latest transgressions.


I'm really hoping she webs it up nice.

Reactions: Like 1


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