# Found Snake



## pnshmntMMA (May 1, 2010)

hey everyone, new to snakes here. just found a garter snake in my basement. forgot scientific name. i wanted to keep it and feed it for maybe a day or two then release it back into the yard. whats the deal with handling these wild caught snakes? likely to bite? would i even feel it? its about 5 inches long so i guess its a juv? thanks for any help. also what about feeding. i was thinking very small crickets because its head is about a half inch long. thanks for any help!


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## Exo (May 1, 2010)

There was a thread not long ago involving garter snakes, use the search and you should be able to find it.

As far as biting goes, they have small teeth and depending on the size of the snake, they can cause small cuts, but that's it. They do spay a foul smelling liquid if frightened though, which is far worse than their bite. :barf:


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## pouchedrat (May 1, 2010)

worms, fish, etc.  I've been bitten by a garter before and it did bleed, but not sure how likely it is or how often it'd happen (it's only happened once and I've handled wild garters a lot as a kid).  

usually it's not a good idea to keep wild caught snakes since it's hard to get them to eat in captivity, but a LOT of garters are wild caught that are kept in captivity... so...  Also only a day or two I don't think it'll really eat during that time period, heh.  

but I'm not a snake expert, so I'll leave it to others.


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## pitbulllady (May 1, 2010)

Are you SURE it's a Garter Snake?  Five inches is awfully small for what would have to be one of last year's babies, and Garters are only just now mating, so it can't be a neonate.  Very often, I see people mistake Brown Snakes(_Storeria dekayii)_ for Garters, since they can have a similar pattern, though not as noticeable as a typical Garter pattern.

That said, I've never had a Garter, wild-caught or otherwise, that wouldn't eat.  Small Garters will usually devour earthworms with relish, and will also eat small fish or even strips of cut fresh fish(not frozen), tadpoles, small frogs or small toads.  They can easily be "taught" to eat frozen-thawed pinkie mice by putting the pinkies in a ziplock bag with some pieces of fish or whole fish,  putting that bag in the freezer, then letting the whole bag thaw up, so that the fish oils cover the pinkies and mask their smell.  A reluctant feeder can be enticed to grab a pinkie by jiggling it with tweezers in front of the snake to mimic the flopping motion of a stranded fish.  HOWEVER, if this snake is a Brown, and not a Garter, you will not get it to eat fish or pinkies.  You'll be lucky to find one that eats earthworms in captivity.  Browns can be very difficult to keep in captivity, and this is why you just don't see people keeping them in spite of their small, easy-to-manage size and docile nature.  I've only had one that would eat readily in captivity, but all she would eat was slugs.

pitbulllady


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## hassman789 (May 1, 2010)

i feed my garter snake fish and worms. he hasnt bitten me yet but i havent handled him in a while because hes fast and i dont want him escaping (hes skittish and fast) and i dont wanna get musked.


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## stevetastic (May 1, 2010)

I agree with pitbull lady.  could also be a small Ribbon snake (Thamnophis sauritus)  everyone around here calls them garter snakes (well they call them garden snakes)

If it is a garter it will smell something fowl! and they are very prone to giving a nip.  doesn't hurt but there bites make me itch something fierce... maybe from the venom?


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## Beardo (May 1, 2010)

stevetastic said:


> I agree with pitbull lady.  could also be a small Ribbon snake (Thamnophis sauritus)  everyone around here calls them garter snakes (well they call them garden snakes)
> 
> If it is a garter it will smell something fowl! and they are very prone to giving a nip.  doesn't hurt but there bites make me itch something fierce... maybe from the venom?


Umm....Garter Snakes are not venomous. :?


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## stevetastic (May 1, 2010)

DavidBeard said:


> Umm....Garter Snakes are not venomous. :?


yep.  They are.  They have Duvernoy's Glands. They aren't harmful to anything but worms and small frogs and fish though.


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## Beardo (May 1, 2010)

Haha....you're kidding right? Show me something that says Garter Snakes have fully functional venom delivery systems (i.e. glands, ducts & fangs).


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## stevetastic (May 1, 2010)

look it up if you don't believe me.


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## Beardo (May 1, 2010)

I'm pretty sure I can fnd numerous articles online that say Ball Pythons get 10 feet long and that Iguanas can live off cheeseburgers, but that doesn't make it true.


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## stevetastic (May 1, 2010)

Duvernoy's Glands.  Google it.


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## Beardo (May 1, 2010)

I know what a Duvernoy's Gland is, smart guy. 

If you believe everything you read on Wikipedia, I have some farmland in Florida to sell you.


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## stevetastic (May 1, 2010)

i didn't get that info from wikipedia "smart guy"


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## BlackCat (May 1, 2010)

I just got a garter snake almost a week ago and I've been reading up on them a lot.

They don't have venom like most snakes but their saliva can be toxic, which can cause itching and sometimes swelling.

Also.. a good article abotu feeding and caring for them: http://www.gartersnake.info/care/feeding.phtml

Hope that helps


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## 8by8 (May 1, 2010)

http://www.bio.davidson.edu/people/midorcas/animalphysiology/websites/2008/Eskew/Evolution2.htm


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## pnshmntMMA (May 1, 2010)

DavidBeard said:


> Umm....Garter Snakes are not venomous. :?


they are venomous. they have a neurotoxic venom that comes from teeth way in the back. completely harmless except for itching


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## pnshmntMMA (May 1, 2010)

also im not 'keeping a wild caught snake'. i just want to observe it for a day or so, to learn about it. like that more than looking at pictures. definately going to release it where i usually find them outside in the back yard. thanks for all the help everyone. much appreciated A-boards people rock  :clap:


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## myrmecophile (May 2, 2010)

Garters do indeed have the ability to produce venom. However as has been said they lack the sophisticated delivery system needed to  produce a medically significant toxic bite. Dr Brian Fry has done a tremendous amount of work proving that many snakes long thought to be venomless actually do produce toxic saliva.  
http://www.venomdoc.com/venomdoc/Venomdoc.html


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## pouchedrat (May 2, 2010)

I believe garters are rear-fanged (like my two little ring-neck snakes are).

I've thought of adding a garter or two to my now-three snakes, but not before I find a male egg eater (why are they so hard to find..).   those blue florida garters are beautiful!


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## pitbulllady (May 2, 2010)

DavidBeard said:


> Umm....Garter Snakes are not venomous. :?


Oh yes, they ARE!  They are a rear-fanged snake and they do possess Duvernoy's glands, and no, I didn't get that information from Wikipedia, but from the "Venom Doc" himself, Dr. Bryan G. Frye, who has made a career of studying animal venoms and probably knows more about venoms and their components than anyone else.  Garters most definitely do have a mild venom, just an inefficient means of getting it into you.  Ditto for all Natricine snakes, actually.  The venom contains an anticoagulant as well as neurotoxic components, which is why a bite from a Garter or Water Snake will bleed like crazy, way out of proportion to the physical injury itself.  I've been bitten by Garters, and a Garter bite hurts and burns waaay worse than even a bite from a very large Rat Snake or comparable-sized Boid.  The last time I got tagged good by a Garter felt similar to a bite I got once from a decent-sized Mangrove Snake(_Boiga dendrophila)_, just without that pounding headache that Mangrove bites generally cause.  I had tingling and numbness at the bite site for several hours, with burning and itching as it wore off, a lot like when you have had a shot of Novacaine and it's starting to wear off.  If a Garter ever manages to get a good grip on you and chew, as opposed to that fast strike-and-release type of bite, you'll know it.  Our North American Garters have a close relative in Asia, snakes in the genus _Rhabdophis_, which looks virtually identical to our Garters, but some of the snakes in that genus have caused human fatalities, and it was not due to allergic reactions, either.  The store chain that eventually became Target used to sell small animals, including snakes, and they used to sell many, many _Rhabdophis tigrinus_ as "Asian Garter Snakes".  They looked just like a brightly-colored "Flame" Garter, and ate the same things.  I had one of those for many years that I bought for $15.00, and free-handled it just like a Corn Snake, not knowing that it could have killed me!  No one really realized that those little snakes were potentially lethal and they were imported by the thousands to be sold as cheap pets.  When documented reports started coming out of Asia of fatalities caused by bites from that species, needless to say, they were no longer imported.  Current studies suggest that these snakes, and possibly our Garters as well, acquire greater toxicity by storing toxins from frogs that they eat, much as Poison Dart Frogs acquire their toxins from eating insects that have in turn eaten highly poisonous leaves, so I have to wonder if captive-bred snakes that have never eaten a frog would have as strong a venom as wild-caught snakes, but the Garter than had bitten me was a long-term captive that was eating scented mice and fish, and I still had a very noticeable reaction that was quite different from a bite from most Colubrids.

pitbulllady


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## stevetastic (May 2, 2010)

DavidBeard said:


> Haha....you're kidding right? Show me something that says Garter Snakes have fully functional venom delivery systems (i.e. *glands, ducts & fangs*).


The Duvernoy's *Glands* have *duct* systems that drain the lobules down a main *duct* to small rear *fangs*.

a view of the glad and ducts can be seen here.


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## Mojosmf (May 2, 2010)

*Glands on garter snakes*

Actually they do have venom glans, Venom. He is correct. Garter snakes have Duvernoy's Glands. I know it for a fact


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## RoachGirlRen (May 2, 2010)

Science! It's good for being informed n'stuff. 

How's the little dude doing, MMA? You didn't happen to take any pics of the little cutie, did you?


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## zonbonzovi (May 3, 2010)

Not sure if this is related or not, but: garter snakes are one of the only successful predators of Taricha granulosa(rough skinned newt), which contains an unbelievably powerful tetrodotoxin.  A full grown man would be dead within the hour after consuming T. granulosa, yet the garter snake has apparently developed a means to eat the newt without being affected.  I don't know if this has anything to do with the Duvernoy's gland, but if anyone comes across any interrelated research on the two phenomena, I would temporarily be your best friend:}


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## Exo (May 3, 2010)

Wow, I didn't know they had venom.....I only knew that their bites sting, get red, and itch a little bit.....weird.


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## stevetastic (May 3, 2010)

zonbonzovi said:


> Not sure if this is related or not, but: garter snakes are one of the only successful predators of Taricha granulosa(rough skinned newt), which contains an unbelievably powerful tetrodotoxin.  A full grown man would be dead within the hour after consuming T. granulosa, yet the garter snake has apparently developed a means to eat the newt without being affected.  I don't know if this has anything to do with the Duvernoy's gland, but if anyone comes across any interrelated research on the two phenomena, I would temporarily be your best friend:}


Immunities to poisons are not uncommon.  Take for instance the cane toad.  It bufotoxin kills everything that eats except in its native territory where animals have evolved along side it and it is regularly eaten with no ill effects.


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## stevetastic (May 3, 2010)

zonbonzovi said:


> Not sure if this is related or not, but: garter snakes are one of the only successful predators of Taricha granulosa(rough skinned newt), which contains an unbelievably powerful tetrodotoxin.  A full grown man would be dead within the hour after consuming T. granulosa, yet the garter snake has apparently developed a means to eat the newt without being affected.  I don't know if this has anything to do with the Duvernoy's gland, but if anyone comes across any interrelated research on the two phenomena, I would temporarily be your best friend:}


Immunities to poisons are not uncommon.  Take for instance the cane toad.  It bufotoxin kills everything that eats except in its native territory where animals have evolved along side it and it is regularly eaten with no ill effects.


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## Beardo (May 3, 2010)

Ok, ok....I admit. I got owned. 

I should've known this, as I've read a few of Dr. Fry's articles on other herps in the past. 

*Facepalm*


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## stevetastic (May 4, 2010)

DavidBeard said:


> Ok, ok....I admit. I got owned.
> 
> I should've known this, as I've read a few of Dr. Fry's articles on other herps in the past.
> 
> *Facepalm*


Eh... it happens to everyone occasionally and you owned up to it.  That earns you respect in my book. At least you don't ignore facts when they are presented to you.

Also sorry if I came off rude.  I have been stressed out lately.

To the OP:

How are things going with the little guy?


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## Beardo (May 4, 2010)

Same here man....I had a bad day at work dealing with a-holes so it kinda carried over, lol. My bad....ddn't mean to be a "smart guy" LOL.


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