# Ornata Project



## grayzone (Jul 8, 2012)

Ok, so .. as some may know, my regalis project failed miserably. I HAD to jump on the chance to try my hand with Poeci's, and with this ornata couple the timing is PERFECT. Both are super fresh and ready for eachother. (thanks again to rich65 for the MM ..he sure knows how to grow em)
My female molted to just shy of 8" on 6/26 and has since ate a handful of crickets. In THIS case, i offered the female a small pinkie mouse before introducing the male to her enclosure. After a few hours of eating, and not leaving a speck behind, darkness and quiet crept in and the following happened

View attachment 105839

	

		
			
		

		
	
 [YOUTUBE]CYid_BeFey4&feature=g-upl[/YOUTUBE]

This video has taken me all day to figure out. Im admittedly NOT TOO GREAT with computers, and im apparently an even worse camera man lol. This vid was shot with an Iphone, and OG consisted of 4 vids which i edited into one.
Sorry for so much movement, but hindsight is 20/20  if i would have MOVED THE ENCLOSURE, i would have been able to get better angles. Just did not want to disturb the female before intro of the male.
The music isnt really what i was lookin for, but my kids mom was over watching tv, and NOBODY needs to hear TrueBlood in the background :biggrin:

Anyways, this is my first pairing of this sp./genera and it went well.. Also, was my 1st vid, editing job etc. Hope you enjoy. 

Oh yeah, dont miss the present the bastard MM left for me to clean right at the end of the vid either:sarcasm:

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## iaminside (Jul 8, 2012)

glad it went well! good luck!

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## Tweak (Jul 8, 2012)

Great video! Your females colors really pop she's gorgeous! The male seemed to frighten her when he would try and burst in there lol but it looks like an insertion will happen eventually! Good luck.

P.s. I found the music pretty funny lol

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## grayzone (Jul 8, 2012)

there was the real good one that knocked her on her back. He got it in, then she righted herself and he took off to clean his palps.
Her furrow was busted open afterwards, but i didnt get it on vid. I will feed her again a time or two (no more mice lol) and insert the male again in a few days .. it APPEARS he already reloaded, but i want to make CERTAIN


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## Tweak (Jul 8, 2012)

Very understandable. I'd say keep updating this thread but I'm sure you will


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## grayzone (Jul 8, 2012)

you know it:wink: 
so far, i have kept all my pairing threads alive. I plan to do so (successfull or not) until i DO get slings that hit 2i. I will then write full reports and post them in the proper sections. 
These threads are mostly so i can keep accurate notes, and so the people i get males from can see whats going on from the comfort of their living rooms, offices, cell phones etc.  My rosie project didnt go so well, but ill just keep it alive when i get a 2nd male. I have a few of these going right now

---------- Post added 07-08-2012 at 07:45 PM ----------

for those who want to skip to the good parts they happen at 7minutes and at 9:19 lol ( < now you know what T poo looks like:biggrin

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## hamhock 74 (Jul 8, 2012)

Very cool man, how long did the entire mating process take,and was there an insertion I don't think I saw one, but then again I was skipping to different parts. (Internet is laggy at the moment.)


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## grayzone (Jul 9, 2012)

about 5-10 minutes to hook up, then the 10 minutes of vid was really about 1/2 hour of time. 
Im pretty sure i saw one GOOD insertion, and her furrow was definitely "open" rather than the usual slit afterwards. Between that, and the palp cleaning, id call it successful. I will be trying again a few times off and on until im 100% confident.
At least she seems receptive. 
I guess im going to have to man up and leave at least ONE door open so the male is more comfortable. Ive done a ton of reading on breeding this sp. and ive gotten some trustworthy/great sounding tips so i got high hopes this will turn out well in the end.


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## le-thomas (Jul 9, 2012)

Good luck and don't get bit

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## grayzone (Jul 9, 2012)

thats the plan :biggrin:  hell, at this point i wouldnt even care.. i just really want this to go right after my last 2 pairings went bad .. one molted out, one male got eaten.
I saw a vid on YT of talkenlate04's where he is HOLDING the female poeci so the male can do his biz... NOT that worried about making this project work. 
I DID enjoy watching his vid tho

---------- Post added 07-08-2012 at 09:23 PM ----------

id tell all you if he gets bit or not, but his vids are worthy of being watched. hes done a lot in the hobby and is somebody to learn a thing or two from


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## Skeri (Jul 9, 2012)

Hope you get a sac! 

Holding the female down? That I haven't heard of before. Do you have a link to the video?

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## grayzone (Jul 9, 2012)

here ya go Skeri http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thu46EMx6VE DEFINITELY braver (if thats the correct word lol) than i/most


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## grayzone (Jul 9, 2012)

k so i watched just about EVERY ornata pairing vid on YT last night, and ALL insertions go very fast with this sp. (likely given the reputation of the females lol)
Im gonna go ahead and rule that pairing as successful


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## catfishrod69 (Jul 10, 2012)

Looks like he got a insertion, but it was a very quick one, and probably not enough to work. I think i prefer true blood lol.


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## grayzone (Jul 10, 2012)

really? thanks John.. i didnt know that a "short" insertion could result as a failed one. Either way, aint gonna stress over it.. i will be likely pairing again as it APPEARS the MM made another sperm web already.. i see a couple thick, twisted, bright white web strands hanging from the sides of his deli.
He ate 2 crickets this afternoon
my female has CURRENTLY ate 3 out of however many i dumped in on accident. I will let him get after it tonight or tomorrow after work and i will surely be making another vid. I MAY try without the light on my Iphone on, so it may not be as bright.. Least amount of distractions the better IMO.
I will ALSO be moving my females enclosure to somewhere more convenient so i dont have to move around as much. 
I never fully figured out how to make a vid silent, but when i attempt again it will DEFINITELY be quiet in my house. I like hearing the tapping, and the stupid music in my 1st vid hides the noise.

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## Ceratogyrus (Jul 11, 2012)

catfishrod69 said:


> Looks like he got a insertion, but it was a very quick one, and probably not enough to work.


All of my pokie matings were always very quick. Half a second if that.
I only pair them once and have had 15+ successful sacs from pokies already.
In my experience, one very quick mating is good enough. My females also don't usually show any interest in the males after a successful mating (Other than metallica's), so that should be a sign.
I know it is not ornata, but here is a video of pederseni. Sorry if this is considered a highjack,  but it is the same genus. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKRqSAA1Dlw&feature=g-upl
You can see the quick insert at the end of the video before he throws her off the tank.

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## Skeri (Jul 11, 2012)

I just got a chance to check out that link. That is nuts! Cool video though. 

Grayzone, I have imovie on my computer and i'm pretty decent at working on it, so if you ever need help hit me up 

Speaking of which I am thinking of posting the B. vagans pairing I did, after I do an immense amount of editing. It will probably be more humorous than anything though. There will probably be sub-captions (I got a terrible angle of the whole thing, but it was because I was more worried about being able to separate the two than getting a good shot) along the lines of "here is where I felt like my heart was ganna explode" and "Here is where I started whispering to my male to push because my female is large and hes clearly a bit small and I thought the poor little guy was ganna snap under pressure of her weight" and my favorite "here is where I get way too close into their personal space to see if said pairing will be successful" XD Hopefully when I try the urticans pairing I can get so better angles and I wont be in the video looking ridiculous XD.

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## Ceratogyrus (Jul 11, 2012)

Just had a look at your video now and that was a perfect insert.
Probably twice as long as the inserts my pokie males get with their partners (As you can see in my video in my previous post)
You can try him again with her if you really like, but if she doesn't tap like the first pairing, I would take him out asap as he will probably become lunch.

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## grayzone (Jul 11, 2012)

Thanks Ceratogyrus. I tried pairing again last night, but after 1/2 hour of him in the tank ,and he only tapped once, i figured it was a good sign to take him back out. She didnt even tap back. When he happened across her CB tube, i saw what LOOKED like her tapping, however she could have just been cleaning her fangs (she has some free range crix in there)

Either way, i figured it best to pull him and try again another day .. i would definitely like to see one more successful hookup before retiring the male. Also, thanks for posting your vids link. Scary stuff watchin them fall, but they're arboreals so i know the are built for it. That male you had wasn't playin around lol. 

Thank YOU skeri for the help offer. Ive had a couple awesome members help just to get me started creating THIS vid, if i make a 2nd i will DEFINITELY PM you about it. Would be cool to learn some more editing techniques and such. Also, if you make a vid of your vagans send a link. Id surely check it out.


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## Protectyaaaneck (Jul 11, 2012)

catfishrod69 said:


> Looks like he got a insertion


 ... 





catfishrod69 said:


> probably not enough to work.


Why wouldn't it work if he inserted it? Are you saying he didn't hold it in there long enough? Did he need to insert further?

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## grayzone (Jul 11, 2012)

maybe hes a one pump chump.. long as he gets the job done ill be happy


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## catfishrod69 (Jul 11, 2012)

Yeah i totally understand that. I just figured with that fast of a insert, he might not have had a chance to inject her. Looks kind of like he was inserting then got startled and pulled out. I havent really seen my pokies pair, i have had to cohab them overnight. Im just going off of other species i have paired. Thanks for the info though, since i will be pairing more pokies soon. 





Ceratogyrus said:


> All of my pokie matings were always very quick. Half a second if that.
> I only pair them once and have had 15+ successful sacs from pokies already.
> In my experience, one very quick mating is good enough. My females also don't usually show any interest in the males after a successful mating (Other than metallica's), so that should be a sign.
> I know it is not ornata, but here is a video of pederseni. Sorry if this is considered a highjack,  but it is the same genus.
> ...




---------- Post added 07-11-2012 at 06:53 PM ----------

I was just thinking that he wasnt in long enough. Like he got startled before he could inject it.





Protectyaaaneck said:


> ...
> 
> Why wouldn't it work if he inserted it? Are you saying he didn't hold it in there long enough? Did he need to insert further?

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## Protectyaaaneck (Jul 12, 2012)

catfishrod69 said:


> I was just thinking that he wasnt in long enough. Like he got startled before he could inject it.


Have you ever paired Poecilotheria? They like to do it lightning quick.

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## goodyt (Jul 12, 2012)

Thanks for the information. I love the music in the video!


-Alisha

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## catfishrod69 (Jul 12, 2012)

yep, ive paired metallica, formosa, regalis. Have produced regalis. The thing is, i have never seen any insertions from these species. They didnt seem to want to do anything unless i let them cohab overnight. I was just basing it off of others i have paired like S. calceatum, T. violaceus, and a few others. Sorry for the conclusion. Atleast i have now learned something that will definitely help me, and hopefully others out. Thanks.





Protectyaaaneck said:


> Have you ever paired Poecilotheria? They like to do it lightning quick.


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## grayzone (Jul 16, 2012)

just want to update that i re-introduced the male on Friday the 13th.. The two have been cohabbing successfully ever since. I haven't SEEN any hook ups, but that doesn't mean any haven't happened. I honestly haven't even been watching closely
The female is showing NO aggression and im not disturbing them to rile her up

it is real cool to see the male and female BOTH sharing a cork tube together. The two are often in different directions... female faces DOWN the tube, while the male faces UP/OUT (probably in case he has to bolt)

i will probably pull the male in the morning before work, and wait another week or so before an additional hook up. If i see another sperm web produced, and they DONT hook up with the next attempt im going to assume the job is done.:biggrin:


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## grayzone (Jul 16, 2012)

heres some pics of the 2 in the tube
View attachment 106144
View attachment 106145

	

		
			
		

		
	
  the two apparently like to cuddle after:biggrin:


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## Tweak (Jul 16, 2012)

Wow that's awesome looks like you won't have to worry about a repeat of the regalia incident Steve! Hope he got an insertion for you!

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## grayzone (Jul 16, 2012)

thanks.. im SURE he got one so far.. im betting there has been alot going on that i havent witnessed too! After seeing these guys together, sharing that cb tube, i MAY try a small colony project if i ever get slings. I know its ill advised, but itd be worth a shot if i dont have to BUY the slings :wink: ..if it drops from like 5 to 2 slings, at least they will be well fed:sarcasm:


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## panterafreak21 (Jul 16, 2012)

Thats some awsome stuff you got going... Ive read alot on breeding pokies but i have never seen them sharing a hide together. Interesting behavor.


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## Tweak (Jul 16, 2012)

Pokie colonies scare the bejesus out of me personally. The only colony I have any interest in attempting would be m. balfouri the things that have been done with thy species is jaw dropping


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## Protectyaaaneck (Jul 16, 2012)

grayzone said:


> thanks.. im SURE he got one so far.. im betting there has been alot going on that i havent witnessed too! After seeing these guys together, sharing that cb tube, i MAY try a small colony project if i ever get slings. I know its ill advised, but itd be worth a shot if i dont have to BUY the slings :wink: ..if it drops from like 5 to 2 slings, at least they will be well fed:sarcasm:


I recently kept 30 or so ornata 2nd instars together for a couple of months, guess how how many I found when I took a count... 7! lol  Good luck to you, I guess.  So far, subfusca, tigrinawesseli, and fasciata have all done excellent for me communally. My subfusca and tigrinawesseli communals are over 4-5" now and doing great!

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## grayzone (Jul 16, 2012)

yeah.. im STILL pretty iffy about it.. It would be awesome, but i KNOW that its overall been deemed unsuccessful. Thanks for adding to my doubts. Maybe ill learn through the losses YOU witnessed jason. (if i ever even get slings.. NOT assuming anything yet)
if all goes well i will be getting a couple LL subfusca this week .. i found somebody who will give me a great deal for a couple, but nothing is set in stone yet. 
I have loved these from the second i started seeing "bara" pop up a lot like a year ago. IMO they are among the ( if not THE MOST) beautiful sp. of Poeci, even though they are sort of subtle. I love the coloration and the fading dorsal they have.


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## James501 (Jul 17, 2012)

I've been watching this thread for a few days, the video and pics were interesting and I'm hoping you get a nice sac from the pairing. :biggrin: I like the Ll subfusca too but I'm struggling to find slings here in the UK. :cry: definately a nice looking Poeci.


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## grayzone (Jul 20, 2012)

Protectyaaaneck said:


> So far, subfusca, tigrinawesseli, and fasciata have all done excellent for me communally. My subfusca and tigrinawesseli communals are over 4-5" now and doing great!


out of curiousity, are the subfusca you are keeping communal HL or LL form? Both ok?


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## salmonpink (Jul 21, 2012)

Holy crap. How did I miss this thread. This is awesome. Good luck.

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## grayzone (Jul 21, 2012)

best of luck to YOU too in the future bro.. 
even though these are "common sp." of poeci they are among the most beautiful IMO.. can never have enough _Poecilotheria_
if all DOES go well for me, i will be trading STUPID numbers of ornata for other Poeci sp.


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## Tweak (Jul 22, 2012)

grayzone said:


> best of luck to YOU too in the future bro..
> even though these are "common sp." of poeci they are among the most beautiful IMO.. can never have enough _Poecilotheria_
> if all DOES go well for me, i will be trading STUPID numbers of ornata for other Poeci sp.


I would have to agree ornata and rufilata are just stunning


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## salmonpink (Jul 23, 2012)

I agree also. By far my fav sp


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## grayzone (Aug 3, 2012)

so, thought id update.. just finished some more pairing and all went great.. no cool video THIS time, but may give it another go (for good measure) lol..
Saw some AWESOME insertions and the end result was this
	

		
			
		

		
	

View attachment 106735
View attachment 106736

Sorry for the blurry pics, but for those of you who know what youre looking at/for you get the drift..

I cant believe how receptive of eachother these 2 are.. absolutely NO aggression.. the female appears to be gaining weight too, although it COULD just be because she recently molted and is getting fed a couple times a week..
Id like to think the pairings are taking:biggrin:


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## grayzone (Aug 15, 2012)

as an update, this female is starting to show signs of weight gain. Its likely due to the high intake of food , but she is eating more than any other poeci ive ever owned. She is ALSO becoming very visible. She barely has used her cork tube at all in like a week, and is usually on the glass, or scrunched on the backdrop.
I have been keeping her slightly on the drier side, with just room temps (except for nightfall).. i sleep with windows open in my house so temps DO get a bit cool . I make use of the same red bulb that is shared between like 14 other tarantulas on that shelf.
I plan to start raising humidity and temps a bit once the 2 month or so mark hits, and will start FLOODING once i see unusual webbing (if ever..fingers crossed) 
If im missing anything, or if EXPERIENCED ornata breeders have suggestions/criticism please feel free or shoot me a pm

BTW this is my girl a little over a month after a couple pairings
View attachment 107081
View attachment 107082

View attachment 107083
View attachment 107084


I will continue checking in on this thread for comments, and i will post new pics come beginning of september


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## Ceratogyrus (Aug 15, 2012)

All looks good so far.
Her picking up on the eating is a good sign too.
From personal experience:
I keep my spiders very cool after mating, with no waterbowl or misting. I feed them as much as possible during this time. I would guess temperatures would be around 15 degrees celcius.
When they start showing a "bell shaped" abdomen, I introduce a waterbowl and up the temps. This depends on the spider, but to give you an idea, I have had pokies drop within a month of mating and others 9 months after mating.
I then gradually start flooding until the substrate is saturated along with putting them close to a heater. The temp at the entrance to my female ornata's corkbark tube was 34 when she dropped her sac around a month ago. The temp outside the enclosure on the lid was 42 degrees when she dropped!
Let me know if you have any more questions.

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## grayzone (Aug 15, 2012)

cool bro
Glad to know that ive been handling this one appropriately so far. i WILL be tempted to peek in for the duration of the 1-9  months:sarcasm: but i really want this project to go right. I have a handful of paired/mated females ATM, and the suspense is killing me. 
After getting my regalis munched, and my rosie molting out mad: all looked so good too) i could really use some reassurance that my research and perseverance is teaching me something.

So far, my routine for this girl sounds about as close as i can get to what worked for YOU, so maybe in time itll work for me too. After all, i HAVE seen a few great insertions AND she is very fresh in her molt cycle


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## Ceratogyrus (Aug 15, 2012)

There is a lot of luck involved in the whole thing as well.
If the spider doesn't 'feel' like dropping, nothing will get her to. 
It took me 3 years of keeping exotic tarantulas to get my first successful egg case, so patience is needed sometimes. If they refuse, just keep trying. If that doesn't work, the threat of the bottom of my shoe normally does the trick.

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## grayzone (Aug 15, 2012)

noted and noted lol.. i like the threatening part. Ive used it before when my male P. regalis took over 8 months of premolt to go from PU to MM
Didnt go so well for HIM due to my mistakes.
I WILL bounce back, and no more losing males


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## papilio (Sep 7, 2012)

A great read Steven, thanks and best luck to you!  

I've only witnessed one insertion, with my MF P. regalis, and that too took only a fraction of a second, amazing skill.  She became gravid but molted out ... maybe next time!  
I'll definitely keep my eye on this thread!


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## Legion09 (Sep 7, 2012)

Subscribed!  Very interested to see what happens!


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## Skeri (Sep 7, 2012)

Ceratogyrus said:


> There is a lot of luck involved in the whole thing as well.
> If the spider doesn't 'feel' like dropping, nothing will get her to.
> It took me 3 years of keeping exotic tarantulas to get my first successful egg case, so patience is needed sometimes. If they refuse, just keep trying. If that doesn't work, the threat of the bottom of my shoe normally does the trick.


I keep doing that. I would never hurt any of my Ts but I keep giving my female glares thinking "if you eat that egg sac before I pull its going to be really hard for me to resist squishing you" I would never squish her but i'd be pretty angry.


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## grayzone (Nov 11, 2012)

figured i would update this thread as well, and inform that all is going GREAT for now with this project.. 
My female has got VERY FAT in my absence, and in the past couple weeks i have been feeding her dubia like crazy. I have started mildly flooding her cages through the vent up top, and have increased heat. 
She has taken to her cork tube, and has been digging dirt and literally TOSSING it out of her fangs with her pedipalps. VERY AWESOME in itself to watch..
Anyways, she has started webbing a bit, and i am under the impression she will be doing something VERY COOL here VERY SOON. 
I would place some pics but at this time i dont think it best to disturb. Hope yall understand


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## AmbushArachnids (Nov 11, 2012)

Hope she drops soon. 
-Doug

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## grayzone (Nov 11, 2012)

figured id post some quick photos i snapped during feeding time today..she is SUCH a voracious eater these days

anyways, hope you all enjoy..
View attachment 110073
View attachment 110074
View attachment 110075
View attachment 110076


as a (probably dumb) side question SHOULD I CONTINUE FEEDING OR DOES THE CONSTANT INTRUSION BOTHER HER TOO MUCH?  she ate about 3 large dubia last week, and today she ate 5 HUGE crickets. Seems she is never full anymore and is quick to pounce on prey.. I just am uncertain of if shes eating out of necessity or out of the sheer fact she HATES the prey in her home when shes preoccupied

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## BrettG (Nov 11, 2012)

I say keep feeding her.

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## grayzone (Nov 11, 2012)

and I trust and value your judgement Brett.. thanks.. keep feeding her for now it is..
I will stop once i see HEAVY webbing happening i guess


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## BrettG (Nov 12, 2012)

It feeds it's spider!!!!!


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## grayzone (Nov 17, 2012)

still nothin, but last night i WITNESSED her eat about 8 crickets at once in her hide, and she probably ate the last 4 out of the bag that spilled into her enclosure. 
IS THERE SUCH A THING AS OVERFEEDING a gravid t? 
She is still out in the open, on the side of the exo, basking in the residual rays of the red light i use for additional warmth. I use it for 3 of my gravid ladies (along with a couple small slings) about 8-10" away from their enclosure. Thinking of using a cloth heat mat (very low add. heat , used for back pains etc) at night times too. Im cheap, and heating my entire house is not. I never crank on the heater till Dec 1st. 
Should the extra heat speed things up?


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## catfishrod69 (Nov 17, 2012)

If she molts, you will find out. 


grayzone said:


> IS THERE SUCH A THING AS OVERFEEDING a gravid t?

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## grayzone (Nov 17, 2012)

nah.. she JUST molted before starting to pair.  she still has like 6-7 months EASY. 
I have bought a zoo med side wall heater for her tank. I am upping the heat per Ceratogyrus' instruction. Figuring between that, the red bulb, and the ambient room temps that should be enough heat. Im not comfortable getting it as hot as he suggested, so i will just be patient with what im providing. If she wants to drop she will drop.. if not, i will result to the threatening he brought up earlier in this thread lol


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## Legion09 (Nov 17, 2012)

The SUSPENSE!  It kills me!

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## crawltech (Nov 18, 2012)

Good luck bro!......I am pulling a ornata sac on the 30th of this month.....she is roughly 3weeks in,...i cant wait!

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## catfishrod69 (Nov 18, 2012)

Well i had a female formosa 6". She molted, i gave her a week and a half and started feeding her up. Then i tried pairing her with my male that she tried to kill. I ended up leaving him in overnight, and he got eaten. Then 2 months later she molted again. I dunno.


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## grayzone (Nov 18, 2012)

that would suck.

---------- Post added 11-18-2012 at 11:50 AM ----------




crawltech said:


> Good luck bro!......I am pulling a ornata sac on the 30th of this month.....she is roughly 3weeks in,...i cant wait!


 Congrats Levi, hope its a fatty and they all make it


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## MarkmD (Nov 18, 2012)

just watched your vid, glad it was successful and hopefully you get a good amount of slings from the sac.

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## grayzone (Nov 21, 2012)

thanks, me too.. 

moving her (and a few other gravid females) enclosures today. Lots of family will be at my house tomorrow but I wont be here. 
Im NOT letting tons of cousins and others peek in and bug my soon to be mommies. 
I wont be home until tomorrow night, so im hoping she/they will appreciate all the peace and quiet.


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## grayzone (Nov 25, 2012)

after reading a couple reassuring posts in THIS THREAD> http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?240261-Woke-to-find-this&p=2105429#post2105429 (post 12 and 13) 
i may try moving my girl tomorrow.. she is HUGE, but for some reason is slowing down greatly on the food intake. 
I have a feeling something major is about to happen


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## Kungfujoe (Nov 25, 2012)

Good luck hope it works out


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## Ceratogyrus (Nov 25, 2012)

Kungfujoe said:


> Good luck hope it works out


Yeah, hopefully it works for you.


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## grayzone (Dec 2, 2012)

updated pics of this beast
View attachment 110727
View attachment 110728
View attachment 110729

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## Ceratogyrus (Dec 2, 2012)

Looks great.
Is she still eating?


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## grayzone (Dec 2, 2012)

yes
I placed 2 HUGE female B. dubia in with her on Friday (well.. ONE and one got away and hid in her enclosure) and she immediately ate one. 
Last night i caught her out hunting down the other rogue dubia, so i figured it was a good shot to take these photos.

With her abdomen so huge, im afraid what i will find when i go home to check on her today. I dont think she can fit another dubia in there lol.

Taking pics of her candling is actually harder than i thought (at least with the camera i have) but i DID manage to get a better one. I was in a rush to leave last night, so i didn't have time to post it. i will upload it later today


Will she go off food COMPLETELY before she drops or???


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## Ceratogyrus (Dec 2, 2012)

IME, they stop eating altogether a week or so before dropping, sometimes a bit longer.


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## Storm76 (Dec 2, 2012)

Hope the best for her to drop a sac, Steven! Oh, will you pull it and incubate it, or leave it with mommy?


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## grayzone (Dec 2, 2012)

here is the better candling pic i got

View attachment 110748



and Storm, to answer your question, im thinking of pulling it at around day 28-30? I dont want to dig through the enclosure to hunt down a bunch of Poeci slings

based on the cheesy ZOOMED hygro/thermometer (similar to this http://www.thatpetplace.com/p18134.jpg )
the ambient temps in her enclosure are about 74-80 degrees farenheit (on the FAR SIDE of the enclosure)
I have no accurate way of knowing the temps on the side her cork tube is on. She spends all her time there, and that is the side all the extra heat is at.

the humidity is around 70% in her enclosure


I figure if i leave the sack with the mom and pull it on day 28-30 the eggs will likely be at ewl stage to first instar?

More experienced breeders opinions are welcomed!


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## grayzone (Dec 2, 2012)

**edit**
she is currently eating the 2nd rogue roach. She must have just caught it because it wasnt in her fangs a half hour ago


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## gottarantulas (Dec 2, 2012)

I'm in the same boat. Waiting on my P.pederseni to drop a sac and quite possibly my P.regalis (*fingers crossed) after the recent disappointment of my P.striata molting out. You mention that your cool side temps range between 74-80 degrees...are you leaving a heat source on 24/7 or is your room kept at those temps?


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## grayzone (Dec 2, 2012)

my house is a comfortable 70 give or take a few

the cool side of the tank is around that due to the residual heat from the side with additional heating. 
I DO turn the cloth heat mat (for back/neck pain) off at night to let it cool down some.


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## Bast (Dec 3, 2012)

What a gorgeous T!  She's huge!!  Good luck with the sac and the slings when they hatch


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## AmbushArachnids (Dec 3, 2012)

Awesome thread. I wouldnt mind raising some ornatas again. I got tired of trying to breed my 2 girls. I sold them, one was very gravid like this.. For about 5 months before I let her go.

Reactions: Like 1


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## JungleCage (Dec 3, 2012)

AgentD006las said:


> Awesome thread. I wouldnt mind raising some ornatas again. I got tired of trying to breed my 2 girls. I sold them, one was very gravid like this.. For about 5 months before I let her go.


Ironicly I own your Ornata and the one grey zone posted lol! I'm really surprised
It hasn't dropped yet. Its been gravid for almost 8 months!!!!! I'm basically just waiting for her to molt now so I can pair her up again!

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Reactions: Like 1


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## grayzone (Dec 3, 2012)

This girl has been webbing a bit in her cork tube, and is becoming restless at night. I HOPE she drops any day now. 
Im all out of ideas on how to get her to do so (like I ever had a choice in the matter:sarcasm so i guess its just timing. Soon as the sack is produced this thread, and you will definitely be getting updated. 
She will be heading to AZ in no time:biggrin:


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## catfishrod69 (Dec 3, 2012)

So she hasnt webbed herself shut yet?


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## grayzone (Dec 3, 2012)

nope... did you mean as in MOLTING, or protecting what shes (hopefully) going to be making soon? lol..
She just keeps on eating, swelling, and chilling in the warmth ive provided. 
I see a thin layer of webbing at the opening of her cork tube, and assume she will continue working on it through out the day or tonight..?


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## catfishrod69 (Dec 3, 2012)

Well im not sure about ornata, but i figure all Poecis will web themselves closed before making a sac. All of my regalis have done this. I have one female that webbed herself closed about 3 weeks ago, and just last night added alot more webbing to it. I figure the sac is coming any day now. When they web themselves closed its alot different than a molting hammock. Ill have to get the best pic i can of my regalis females enclosure. Your girl might still have a ways to go. I hope not, but never know.

---------- Post added 12-03-2012 at 05:00 PM ----------

Pics posted. Check my pairing thread.

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## grayzone (Dec 4, 2012)

well, i went home today to check on all my ts and to do some general husbandry.

I immediately noticed that she has gone real deep down into her cork tube, and the whole top to her cork tube is lined with fine webbing.
I can still see through it, but it is definitely prepping to do something.

I turned on the extra heat, flooded the far side of the cage a bit, and misted lightly inside it, and have since taken off. I will go back tonight (most likely) and when i do, i will take some updated photos.. Nothing like yours john, but SOMETHING is well on its way.. Im so excited its not funny.. 
Kind of glad im back and forth between 2 houses right now  makes it a LOT harder to bug her 100x a day


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## catfishrod69 (Dec 4, 2012)

Well hopefully thats a sign of something. They usually do just start the webbing off very thin. Then one day it will be alot thicker, then right before they drop, you wont be able to see through it at all. Last night my regalis webbed everything shut tight. Now ill have a hard time telling if she has dropped.


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## grayzone (Dec 4, 2012)

i see that being a problem for me as well.. i never moved stuff in her enclosure after pairing. The cork tube is in a horrible position, but luckily she appears to be digging down real deep (past the cork tube end) into the substrate under neath it.
Hopefully i can pick the enclosure up one day, and see through the glass bottom.

Im debating moving the tube around BEFORE any more progression happens, but im scared it will throw her off or further delay the process.


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## catfishrod69 (Dec 4, 2012)

I dunno if id bother her at this point or not, but you might have just set yourself up to have to let her hatch the sac. Or when the day comes that you can actually open the webbing a tiny bit and peek in and see a sac, you wont know the actual date laid, and will have to pull 30 days from that day. I never use the cork tubes like that. I love the look of them, but i usually cut them into hides. And for arboreal i either use cork pieces slanted against the back of the enclosure with plastic potho wrapped all around it. Or i use garpevine root with plastic potho wrapped all around it. I get to see almost all of my arboreals constantly. Sometimes they will web up a certain spot and make thier own home, and i have a rough time seeing in. But the only one that doesnt come out is my female OBT. But she can keep her butt inside there, as long as she lets me see her abdomen size from time to time.


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## grayzone (Dec 4, 2012)

yeah.. not TOO worried. Once i notice a sack, i will just start my count down from there. If 1i slings start to emerge, i will just catch the female (gotta ship her off when the slings are ready anyways) and round up all the ones i can. 

Im hoping i will be able to notice the sack early on.


For now, should i still keep flooding the enclosure a bit weekly? With this extra heat, it sure dries out fast. 
Keep in mind her enclosure is a 12x12x12 exo with an altered lid (lots of ventilation) 
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?229432-MY-turn-to-build-a-back-drop (can see it here)  

the humidity drops rather quick


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## catfishrod69 (Dec 4, 2012)

I would keep her water dish full, and keep pouring some water into a portion of the substrate. Just be sure to not let the water run down under the cork tube, or it could get the sac wet, and end in disaster.


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## grayzone (Dec 4, 2012)

yeah. i have been pretty careful about that.

I mostly saturate the peat moss ON TOP of her sub on the far side, and only minimal amounts of water run down through the actual sub. I doubt it wicks over to the other side and mositens that part of her sub too bad.
I will be sure to keep that in mind when i check on her next. I SAW what happened to my obt eggs that i suspect got wet. (damn condensation and gravity)


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## catfishrod69 (Dec 4, 2012)

Yep i know what you mean. I waited the full 30 days on my B. vagans, and then pulled. There was around 800 eggs that had molded and shriveled up. Im pretty sure she got it in the water dish. Next time she drops a sac, im removing the waterdish and sticking in a small deli cup full of water. This way she cant have a chance to get the sac into it.


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## grayzone (Dec 4, 2012)

can too moist of sub spoil a sack?
Her sub is by no means soggy, but it is fairly dark and moist. Wont she web heavily over it before dropping the eggs in and rolling it up? If i catch her out of her tube, i will surely be adding a handful of fresh bone dry sub in her tube and packing it in nicely 


Now im all paranoid lol.


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## gottarantulas (Dec 4, 2012)

I lost a Pokie sac a few months to (over)watering not realizing that behind the cork bark, the egg sac was just sitting in wet substrate for an extended number of days. When I eventually pulled the sac, the eggs had mold and were quite smelly.

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## grayzone (Dec 4, 2012)

Thanks for the reassurance.
I will definitely risk bugging her and take some extra preventative measures.

---------- Post added 12-04-2012 at 07:43 PM ----------

If the sub IS too wet think i MAY just pull her and place her in an all new see through enclosure. Wood slab and a couple inches of sub. 
im going to try to be as least invasive as possible, but it will be for the best.

I will check when i get home late tonight, or tomorrow, and whatever i do i will update this thread


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## BrettG (Dec 4, 2012)

You need to stop messing with that girl and let her be. Let that substrate dry by itself,we have been in the same boat and just waited it out,with good results.I swear to God Steven( or however you spell it,lol) put that thing in a closet,and forget about it for a couple of weeks,you are stressing yourself out before she has even done anything. And if you start shifting her tube,or adding substrate you are just running the risk of unneeded stress placed upon that spider.Unneeded stress=a crappychance of her doing ANYTHING.

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## grayzone (Dec 4, 2012)

yeah brett, i hear ya. It is very stressful.
I think im over worrying it because ive barely been home lately. When i AM home, its only for a few fleeting moments, and i barely even have time to observe.
Luckily, aside from the pics ive took recently and the roaches i dropped in, nothing has even been near her cage

Well, thats a lie, i turn a heater off at night too.


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## alpine (Dec 5, 2012)

This is a REALLY interesting read! I am crossing my fingers for you and your little female!!! Just keep up the patience with her and eventually she will give you a little sack of tarantula awesomeness!

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## grayzone (Dec 19, 2012)

As a quick update, this girl ate one more roach last week. I have since vowed i wont mess with her or bug her.
No pics will be taken to update at this time but she has dug all the way down her cork tube, past the substrate line, and has lined the bottom of the tube in webbing? The top of the tube has also been webbed off in some funky/wispy webbing. There is also a light patch of webbing on the upper corner of the exoterra door as well? not sure why haha

Anyways, no sack has been made, but i can see my girl down at the bottom. 

I have taken Bretts advice and just left this girl alone (other than that last feeding) and will continue to do so. She knows what shes doing, and anything i will do at this point will likely delay or screw up the process.
I am not even going to feed anymore until something goes down.. I promise i will update again soon enough


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## jigalojey (Dec 24, 2012)

so.... is it still going well.


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## grayzone (Dec 24, 2012)

yeah.. as well as possible i guess.
I havent been to my house in a couple days, but im expecting to return to the same ol' same ol'
I would really like to find a sack, but im done convincing myself that itll happen WHEN I EXPECT it to


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## grayzone (Dec 24, 2012)

as an update for my notes, she ate 2 giant crickets today.  I see she has made a hole in the webbing in her tube, so i assumed she was out prowling for food or getting a drink? I went ahead and fed, and she did so without hesitation.
No other updates at this time


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## grayzone (Dec 30, 2012)

a bit has changed in this last week.

i was home about 3 days ago and did some husbandry for my ts.  For this girl in particular, i heavily misted/saturated the sphagnum covering the side of her tank without her hide (dont want wet sub near her cork tube) as well as the moss in crevices of her backdrop.

Today when i stopped by my house to check in on my ts i found that she has webbed herself shut (can barely see through it) and has also dug down deep into her sub. These pics dont show it, but what shes done looks very cool. 
I didnt want to disturb too much, so just snapped a couple photos.
	

		
			
		

		
	

View attachment 111546
View attachment 111547


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## grayzone (Dec 30, 2012)

there is no webbing outside her tube other than some misc. webbing on the right hand door (same side as her hide) of her exoterra.
The inside appears to be lined a bit with webbing, and it goes all the way down past substrate level into a burrow. I can not see all the way down, and could not tell if there is a sack. I will check back in a couple days.


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## catfishrod69 (Dec 31, 2012)

Thats some awesome stuff. Looks like she is webbing herself shut to drop a sac! My regalis is still webbed shut, but just sitting there doing nothing. If you need to, you can peel the webbing open just a teensie bit to peek in and see if she has dropped yet. Best of luck!

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## Ceratogyrus (Dec 31, 2012)

That's looking very good. 
Prepare for a sac IMO.

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## grayzone (Dec 31, 2012)

thanks guys.. you both have helped/reassured a lot throughout this process.

john, would opening her webbing slightly to peek in disturb the process at this point, or is she going to drop a sack regaurdless?  There is nothing screaming molt to me, as she normally has way different characteristics to look for PLUS she just ate a couple days ago.

If i do decide to peek in i will be extremely careful not to disturb her. I plan on letting her keep the sack 28-30 days with the same heat ive been giving her.  Should i continue the mistings as well, or would the constant (every 2-3 days) opening of the doors make her want to eat the sack


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## catfishrod69 (Dec 31, 2012)

Personally i would sneek a peak when i feel the need. You need to know the day the sac is dropped to be able to pull at day 28-30, so somehow you have to see the sac. As long as you are not directly bothering her, i wouldnt feel it would cause her to eat the sac. You should continue pouring water into the substrate. But like you said, be very careful to not let the water go under the cork tube. What you could do, is stick in a deli cup full of water, and cover all of the ventilation on top the enclosure. Then just top off the delicup when it evaporates.


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## grayzone (Dec 31, 2012)

cool.. i was thinkin something along those lines. Between that and the misting of the moss in her backdrop, humidity should be good.
Next time im home to sneak a peek i will check to see if anything is down there with her


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## catfishrod69 (Dec 31, 2012)

Sounds good. Just remember that when you find the sac, start counting days then. Dont try and guesstimate what date it was laid. Good luck bro!


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## grayzone (Dec 31, 2012)

yeah.. the less incubation i have to do the better. Im still a bit confused as to what went wrong with the last OBT sack. 
I do not want a repeat with this one.


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## catfishrod69 (Dec 31, 2012)

Yeah hopefully you actually get a full good sac this time. Its nice to have a sac with over 100 slings that are all good.


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## grayzone (Dec 31, 2012)

hell .. as long as i get enough to send Rich65 (loaner of the male...also used my own that matured afterward) some and keep a handful or so im happy. This female already has a flight to catch to AZ no matter how all this plays out... want to be able to raise up at least one more girl out of this potential sack


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## catfishrod69 (Dec 31, 2012)

I understand that man. Im thinking that ornata can have upward of 180ish, but could be wrong. Ah trust me its fun sitting there for hours placing little slings in straws to be shipped out lol. I try and limit myself to 40 at a time, but sometimes cant.


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## grayzone (Dec 31, 2012)

bring em on haha.. wouldnt mind 180 (ive seen reports with them in that ballpark)

So today i stopped by my house and loosely restricted the custom lid with foil (i didnt have seran wrap). I did nothing for the doors or built in ventilation, as i still want decent airflow in the exoterra.
I also took your advice and peeked in a bit.
Sort of both confused, and amazed at what i saw. Still cant tell at what im looking at, but im going to assume there is no eggsack at this point. 

She seems to have made a web net inside the tube. Im assuming the eggs will go in that, and once balled up she will roll it up and down the burrow under the tube and up the tube itself?  


I really only barely peeked, and caused no real disturbance. I wont be back at my house for a couple days so i will check again then.  
(as a side note, i cant wait for this to be done so i can move all my ts to my new house)


of course, here are a couple pics of what i saw
View attachment 111574

Reactions: Like 1


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## web eviction (Dec 31, 2012)

Sweet hopefully she drops soon  have you got any sacs other then the obt?


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## Ceratogyrus (Dec 31, 2012)

That looks like an eggsac by the time you get back.

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## grayzone (Jan 1, 2013)

web eviction said:


> Sweet hopefully she drops soon  have you got any sacs other then the obt?


 nah. Just the obt (so far) which went horribly ..for reasons unknown to me. could have been my fault, may have just been a bad sack. Still waiting for a double clutch or a molt (TONS of webbing again, but no suspended sack)
I am fully expecting a sack from this girl any day 
i also am waiting on B. albo, A. chalcodes, A. avic (potentially), possible L violaceopes, and have recently started pairing my rosie again. Will be on the hunt to get my C. ritae paired up after this over due molt as well.



Ceratogyrus said:


> That looks like an eggsac by the time you get back.


 I hope so haha. Im really excited


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## alpine (Jan 1, 2013)

Good luck with that sack! I hope she gives you something good.

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## web eviction (Jan 1, 2013)

Ya that was too bad about the obt but hopefully she double clutch for ya  I'm still waiting on my stubborn ornata! She has molted out twice on me  but she is all paired up again... I think my H. mac is gonna try to drop a phantom sac on me as She just began swelling up out of no where she is huge! So hoping that's what it is and not something else lol also waiting on fasciata to drop and my G. rosea is still holding haha.


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## grayzone (Jan 1, 2013)

well best of luck on all yours too.. i saw that your ornata molted AGAIN ( in your pic thread ). bummer bro. 
Im a bit iffy on my rosie. Honestly, i dont even care to breed her too bad, but feel i NEED to after she molted out on me. Im determined to get it right.


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## catfishrod69 (Jan 1, 2013)

Yep like Ceratogyrus said, looks like the foundation of the sac there. She will lay the eggs in it, pluck up the outer edges and roll it around the eggs, then make it a nice ball. Good luck man!

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## grayzone (Jan 1, 2013)

im fighting the urge to race home and check:biggrin:  May have to go sneak a peek tonight haha


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## catfishrod69 (Jan 1, 2013)

Id be careful about looking too often. If she feels threatened by it, she might drop the sac and then immediately eat it.

Reactions: Like 1


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## grayzone (Jan 1, 2013)

:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:*WOO HOO*:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

Just found out there she made a sack.  I will think over your advice John, and try to snap some photos. Maybe now, maybe at a later date. Id like some of her tending to it.

I may drape a dark towel over her enclosure and let nature take its course. If i do peek, it will be like ONE time weekly for the next 28 days or so.

Reactions: Like 4


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## alpine (Jan 1, 2013)

grayzone said:


> :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:*WOO HOO*:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:
> 
> Just found out there she made a sack.  I will think over your advice John, and try to snap some photos. Maybe now, maybe at a later date. Id like some of her tending to it.
> 
> I may drape a dark towel over her enclosure and let nature take its course. If i do peek, it will be like ONE time weekly for the next 28 days or so.


Congratulations on the sack!!! I hope all goes well from here on out!

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## catfishrod69 (Jan 1, 2013)

Thats very awesome bro. If i were you though i wouldnt bother her at all though. Just write down todays date, and leave her alone. Dont add water unless you need to. Good luck!

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## Storm76 (Jan 2, 2013)

Nice, bro! Here's hope all goes well with it!

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## jarmst4 (Jan 2, 2013)

That's awesome!

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## Tman86 (Jan 2, 2013)

Thats awesome congrats sounds like a good start to the new year!

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## web eviction (Jan 2, 2013)

Sweet man!! I look forward to some sling pics in the future  hope it's a nice full sac

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## Bugmom (Jan 2, 2013)

Yaaaaaaaaay!!!

Blame Tapatalk + "smart" phone for the typos kthnx

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## Ceratogyrus (Jan 2, 2013)

catfishrod69 said:


> Thats very awesome bro. If i were you though i wouldnt bother her at all though. Just write down todays date, and leave her alone. Dont add water unless you need to. Good luck!


Agree with catfishrod.

And CONGRATS!

Reactions: Like 1


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## grayzone (Jan 2, 2013)

k. You guys have helped me get this far, so i will take your word for it. Today when i stop by the house i will just cover her enclosure with the towel, and forget all about her.
I got word of the sack yesterday (Jan 1st) so i will not even look again until the 28th at the earliest. I will just keep the foil covering the lid and the heat on. If she eats it in the mean time, it was meant to be i guess?


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## Ceratogyrus (Jan 2, 2013)

Are there feeders in the enclosure with her?
If there are, I would just leave them as be, but if not, I would not introduce any more.

Also, personally I wouldn't even bother with extra towels, etc. She was obviously happy with conditions as they were when she dropped, so I would just keep her the same. My past ornata sacs have been EWL by the time I pull them around 20 days if you are thinking of pulling early.


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## grayzone (Jan 2, 2013)

Yeah, i guess that makes sense. My old house isnt necessarily loud, but with dogs coming and going, plus football sundays getting pretty loud (this t is in a common area still) i figure it couldnt hurt. I want her feeling very secure.
There shouldnt be any feeders left over in her enclousre either. I witnessed her eat every dubia thats been introduced, and when it came to feeding crickets,  id drop them down the tube to her  so she would instantly eat. This girl was eating like 6-7 at a time at one point. 

Im glad to know that the incubation process with these can go fairly quick. I DO NOT WANT to deal with eggs, but will do so if i have to. Id much rather have ewls, or better yet 1i. I figure 28 days at 80-90 degrees (same heat its been for her to drop) will help speed things along.  

Would it be best to allow the heat to drop a bit at night still? I would imagine eggs need constant warmth


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## Ceratogyrus (Jan 2, 2013)

Keep her just as you have.
Not that I would recommend it, but when my pokies are sitting on sacs, I check on them once every 2 days sometimes by moving the enclosure around, opening the webbing and shining a light in there. I also feed some of them and treat them like any other spider. Only had one female eat a sac before and that was due to our countries awesome electricity supplier cutting our towns power for a day in the middle of winter. Dropped the temps from 32 down to 10 for the whole night and found the spider eating the sac the following morning.
Basically, they would be extinct if every thunderstorm or prey item caused them to eat their sacs in the wild, but obviously if it can be avoided, rather don't bug them unnecessarily.

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## grayzone (Jan 2, 2013)

so i stopped by briefly and took a peek  

I only snapped one photo, and its NOT the best. This is through her enclosure, and through her webbing in crappy lighting. 





From what i saw though, (way more visible to the eye, than with the phones camera) im amazed. 
This thing is easily the size of a pingpong ball/maybe bigger and she seems to be gaurding in closely. 
I was able to go ninja status and take this without her even aware of me (AFAIK)

I did not cover her enclosure, as what Cera stated previously. She obviously felt comfortable enough to DROP the sack, the less i get in the way the better.


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## AmbushArachnids (Jan 2, 2013)

Congrats on the sack. I hope it turns out well and you get a bunch of little devils.

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## catfishrod69 (Jan 2, 2013)

Only reasons i sometimes use a towel is to keep the humidity in. And since i sit basically right in front of my tarantulas while feeding/watering. I do alot of moving around while feeding about 200 critters, and digging for roaches.


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## cmack91 (Jan 2, 2013)

Congrats on the sac Steve! I hope all goes well with with them!

Reactions: Like 1


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## catfishrod69 (Jan 2, 2013)

Hmm are you sure thats a sac, and not a ultrasound pic of a wierd alien baby?

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## TpleaseForMe (Jan 2, 2013)

oooh man dude finally so awesome now super excited haha

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## grayzone (Jan 2, 2013)

catfishrod69 said:


> Hmm are you sure thats a sac, and not a ultrasound pic of a wierd alien baby?


I wouldnt object to alien babies either:biggrin:

Sorry for the pic quality again ... thats the best im doing for now. I likely wont be posting pics again until i pull the sack. I may even shoot a video? who knows..  I DO have a pretty cool technique i recently tried for packaging ts that i feel will work great to lure her out so i can grab the sack.


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## gottarantulas (Jan 2, 2013)

Congrats on the sac Steve! I hope to be right behind you...I've got two mamma Pokies ready to pop!

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## grayzone (Jan 2, 2013)

best of luck to you.


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## catfishrod69 (Jan 2, 2013)

If it is alien babies, ill be interested. And arent you going to reach into the tube and grab her in one hand and the sac in the other? Thats how all the pros do it lol. Glad she dropped for you, and i hope there is a ton of babies .


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## Ceratogyrus (Jan 3, 2013)

By the time you pull the sac she will be starving, so I just chuck a few roaches in the tube and snatch the sac with long forceps while she is distracted. Works most of the time.

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## LadySharon (Jan 3, 2013)

Congrats!   I've been watching this thread with interest - just because any sack is exciting.  I most likely will never keep OW. (Don’t want to risk my cats and I have pain induced asthma – don’t want to risk getting bitten)  - But I love to read about people’s breeding experiments.  (and baby spiders are so cute.)

I admit I laughed at the comment of writing down the date  (sorry!) – as it was discovered on Jan 1.   Just circle the 28th on the calendar…   

Good luck!  

- Sharon


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## grayzone (Jan 6, 2013)

checked in on her for a minute today, and noticed she has been out of her tube.
apparently she broke out at some point in the past few days, put some dirt in the webbing that is on her exo terra door, and has gone back to her tube. It is webbed closed again and she is still gaurding the sack tightly. IDK whats up with that, but it was a strange observation. Im assuming all is well, as she still is protecting the sack. Maybe she just wanted a drink, and/or to toss out a wandering prey items bolus or something?
also I was wrong about it being pingpong ball sized, and am now seeing it is closer to the size of a large egg.


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## Storm76 (Jan 7, 2013)

Well, let's hope all goes well. For some weird reason, my H. villosella girl is still guarding that dud-sac (99% sure it's a dud as she molted a few months ago and hasn't been paired either) and even carries it around with her. I've seen her carrying that sac up to the top, put it aside, take a drink from the waterdish, pick up the sac and vanish into her tunnels again. She sure takes good care of it...I'm gonna be bummed if somehow this isn't a dud at all. I thought, she would've eaten it by now.

So all the best to your project there. Going to get my A. azuraklaasi male sometime within the next couple months


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## grayzone (Jan 7, 2013)

Storm76 said:


> Going to get my A. azuraklaasi male sometime within the next couple months


 very nice. Keep me updated/start a thread  once the pairing starts. 
Thanks for the extra luck bro


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## catfishrod69 (Jan 7, 2013)

She is telling you to keep your arse out of there . 





grayzone said:


> checked in on her for a minute today, and noticed she has been out of her tube.
> apparently she broke out at some point in the past few days, put some dirt in the webbing that is on her exo terra door, and has gone back to her tube. It is webbed closed again and she is still gaurding the sack tightly. IDK whats up with that, but it was a strange observation. Im assuming all is well, as she still is protecting the sack. Maybe she just wanted a drink, and/or to toss out a wandering prey items bolus or something?
> also I was wrong about it being pingpong ball sized, and am now seeing it is closer to the size of a large egg.


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## grayzone (Jan 19, 2013)

Checked in on her today, for the first time in 12 days. Everything looks great still, but ive noticed she is STILL coming out of her tube on occasion? IDK whats up with that really.  The webbing covering her tube has a hole in it, so that is the only explanation. Maybe coming out for an occasional drink? 

Do ts get water to sort of moisten the sacks or something? (just a random question)

Either way, the moss was looking kind of dry in her enclosure so i very carefully opened her enclosure, and sprayed down the top layer of moss and side of enclosure. 
She seemed to not notice (but i know better) or care and didnt even move. She was still guarding the sack when i left. 

It is at day 18 and the temps have been at a fairly constant 80-82 degrees with a slight drop into the mid to high 70s at night. 
Ive been doing a bit of reading and there is reports of people pulling sacks at like day 17 with ewls?  Would day 28 be too long? I really dont want these guys emerging from the sack by themselves


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## Ceratogyrus (Jan 19, 2013)

I have EWL by 21 days when I usually pull.

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## catfishrod69 (Jan 19, 2013)

I think you should go with Ceratogyrus on this, and pull a little earlier. Both of my Ceratogyrus sacs recently hatched themselves, and i spent hours digging through the substrate.

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## grayzone (Jan 19, 2013)

Cool.. may just go for it! Monday will be 21 days, and i just happen to have the day off. Looks like i will get to end my anticipation

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## grayzone (Jan 20, 2013)

so im prepping for my incubator
Last time i used one for OBT, and it did not go well. I have been told that cocofiber works way better than the wet paper towels, so i will be attempting that. If they are 1i, i will put them directly on the wet sub. 

If ewls or eggs still (really hoping to not have just eggs at this point) i will be placing them in delis with coffee filters ON TOP of the sub.

Here are some pics of what ive got so far





my main concern is the proper amount of ventilation. I do NOT want any condensation forming on top of the lid (which it did last time with obt) if i still have only eggs, because it drips back down causing them to spoil.  
Im pretty sure that it wouldnt hurt if they are at least ewls right?

Also, should i go with shallower delis or a taller incubator? It will be a snug fit with once i replace the substrate. Im planning on using a good 2" of it and heavily saturated (but not too swampy)


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## catfishrod69 (Jan 20, 2013)

Get yourself a 6 quart sterilite tub. Use coco fiber in the bottom of it, place 2 deli cups in it with coco fiber in them. Keep them moist. Drill 6 1/8" holes in the lid. Cover those with mesh, using hot glue. Thats about it. Ive never used wintergreen in my incubators, but might be worth a shot .

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## grayzone (Jan 21, 2013)

Haha.. today is my day off and i woke up at like 545 am, due to excitement.
I feel like a kid at Christmas time. I will be going to get some ts out of my old house today, and i will be pulling this sack as well. It will definitely be coming to my new house with me, where i can keep a closer eye on it. 

Wish me luck, pics coming soon.

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## Ceratogyrus (Jan 21, 2013)

Good luck.

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## grayzone (Jan 21, 2013)

*Did the deed.. Wish me luck*

Ok so it took me about 20 minutes of spider-ranglin, but i eventually got the sack pulled safely. Boy was she MAD.  Crickets DO NOT make a good distraction and she bit my tongs hard enough to scare me pretty bad lol. 
Next time i pair a Poeci, i will make sure its tank is suitable for all the needed activity BEFORE HAND

My hands were shaking with excitement/adrenaline when i pulled the thing and was trying to be very delicate while opening. Spider silk is VERY strong.

I got great news as well as bad news..

Bad news first:
They are all still eggs.


 Good news is none were stuck together though, and are split up into two delis and placed ontop of pretty damp cocofiber In a container like catfish mentioned. I provided 6 airholes in the lid, none in the sides... All appear to look fertile (as far as im concerned) and in great shape. Anybody disagree? Once they hit ewls stage i will transfer them into delis with moist coco as well, rather than coffee filters. 

All in all there were 179 eggs. 3 of the eggs burst on a plate oh:and had NO CONTACT with other eggs. 
Also, there were 7 bad eggs that got tossed. One was solid black, and 6 had black spots on them (see pics)

The total incubating as of this point is 169:biggrin:

I was really anticipating ewls, as the temps were pretty high. IDK what happened, but i am pretty nervous about incubating eggs after my OBT attempt went wrong. Any advice would be appreciated, but at this point i think luck is what plays a big part.

More pics will follow when there is progression.

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## catfishrod69 (Jan 21, 2013)

Those are some beautiful looking eggs bro. Really hope it works out. Im not really sure how well coco fiber works with eggs. You might wanna get Brett on the horn and ask him. Thats a nice number also. Brett told me if the eggs fail in the incubator, than they more than likely wasnt gonna make it anyways. Good luck, and keep us posted.

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## grayzone (Jan 21, 2013)

2 more photos of the setup... if anybody has any concerns feel free to share please


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## Storm76 (Jan 21, 2013)

That's great - so far. I wish you the best of luck with those eggs. Hopefully, all goes well. I'd ask Brett, too, if I'd be in your shoes. He answered my questions regarding breeding so I'll be prepared once I get my MMs.
PS: My H. villosella is still protecting that supposed dud sac...weird.

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## grayzone (Jan 21, 2013)

I shot Brett (and a few other successful breeders) some Pm's seeking advice. I figured if i bug enough people SOMEBODY can point me in the right direction.  I never thought id get so worked up over breeding spiders haha. The suspense kills me.

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## catfishrod69 (Jan 21, 2013)

Only problem i noticed is your mathematics . How many holes is there? (Im totally messing with you bro). Good luck!


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## grayzone (Jan 21, 2013)

haha.. there is 8 .. whoops 

Theyre small though, and this container is large. Seeing how i wont have 1i for a while, i didnt put mesh on.
If they start hittin EWL stage, i will slip the whole incubator into a pantyhoes/stocking


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## catfishrod69 (Jan 21, 2013)

Haha just messin with you. Yeah you wont have to worry about the holes being open until they hit 2nd instar and start to climb around. But at that point you gotta start the seperating. Really hope this works for you man. I know how much you deserve a incubator full of slings.

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## grayzone (Jan 21, 2013)

Im just going to do my best. 
Bugging people with questions, checking in on them to see if theyre pro/di gressing, and keeping my fingers crossed. 

If its meant to be, it will happen. Everything is eventual. I wont let another loss stop me, should the worst happen


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## catfishrod69 (Jan 21, 2013)

That sounds like a good plan. Im really pulling for you. Itll take a little experience to know more about sac pulling times and all. Im still working on it. Since both of my hammock sacs hatched themselves at 27 and 29 days, ill start pulling hammock sacs at 25 days now, and letting them hatch in the incubator.


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## Ceratogyrus (Jan 21, 2013)

Congrats. It looks great.
A bit strange that they are still eggs, but I wouldn't stress too much about that.
Hopefully you have EWL's soon.


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## web eviction (Jan 22, 2013)

Good stuff man! Hope all works out  can't wait to see more pics as they progress! Definetly would had thought they would've been more developed at this point.... But the eggs look good and I'm sure you will get them raised up fine

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## grayzone (Jan 23, 2013)

thanks bro. They are definitely warm and moist in the incubator. The room is a good 70+ degrees that the incubator is in, plus i have slight additional heat. 

One thing im concerned about is i see water droplets forming inside the incubator on the lid. Im freakin paranoid that the water will drip back down on to the eggs (which is supposedly bad) .. Ive been told by a few VERY WELL established breeders (who all use different methods) that they keep them with very little to NO ventilation, so im assuming the droplets are nothing to worry too much about?


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## web eviction (Jan 23, 2013)

You could always attach a paper towel or a cloth to the lid to absorb those droplets if your to worried


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## grayzone (Jan 23, 2013)

so i shined a flashlight through the lid this morning, and noticed the eggs look a little different.

rather than being the clear bright yellow they were 2 days ago, they look sort of like a milky whitish yellow color and are no longer see through. The humidity looks more than fine and i placed a sandwich bag loosely over a few of the airholes to restrict ventilation a bit.

Is the eggs turning a different color a good thing, or does that sound bad? They arent shriveling or anything like that, so im not TOO worried at this point.

I could try posting a pic if that would help


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## freedumbdclxvi (Jan 23, 2013)

catfishrod69 said:


> That sounds like a good plan. Im really pulling for you. Itll take a little experience to know more about sac pulling times and all. Im still working on it. Since both of my hammock sacs hatched themselves at 27 and 29 days, ill start pulling hammock sacs at 25 days now, and letting them hatch in the incubator.


I had my first hammock sac a few weeks ago, an A ezendami.  I was waiting til 30 days, and I kept thinking maybe I should pull it around day 25 or so.  I didn't, and she ate it on day 29.  Now I know not to leave it past 25 or so days.


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## BrettG (Jan 23, 2013)

grayzone said:


> so i shined a flashlight through the lid this morning, and noticed the eggs look a little different.
> 
> rather than being the clear bright yellow they were 2 days ago, they look sort of like a milky whitish yellow color and are no longer see through. The humidity looks more than fine and i placed a sandwich bag loosely over a few of the airholes to restrict ventilation a bit.
> 
> ...


Sorry for the short response,but that is good  It means that they are starting to develop.

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## grayzone (Jan 23, 2013)

freedumbdclxvi said:


> I had my first hammock sac a few weeks ago, an A ezendami.  I was waiting til 30 days, and I kept thinking maybe I should pull it around day 25 or so.  I didn't, and she ate it on day 29.  Now I know not to leave it past 25 or so days.


 sorry for your loss. Auggies are very beautiful, and a they are a genus id like to explore in the near future.  



BrettG said:


> Sorry for the short response,but that is good  It means that they are starting to develop.


 Thanks for that brett.. really helps relieve some of my worrying haha. I guess i will just keep things the way they are, and report back in a day or two.  I have been rotating once in the morning, and once in the evening before i go to bed (as previously stated) and i HAVE noticed the eggs are getting harder to roll around though. Almost as if they are sort of sticking to the coffee filter? IDK what is up with that, the box is very humid.
If they are developing though, i wont worry too much, and will pay attention to see if the sticking increases or not


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## catfishrod69 (Jan 23, 2013)

Man that really sucks. Im so sorry to hear. When i started reading your post, i was like " oh yeah, gotta get me some of those". I really want some. Then i got to the eating part. Really sucks. 





freedumbdclxvi said:


> I had my first hammock sac a few weeks ago, an A ezendami.  I was waiting til 30 days, and I kept thinking maybe I should pull it around day 25 or so.  I didn't, and she ate it on day 29.  Now I know not to leave it past 25 or so days.



Steven, be sure to post pics once they start popping legs. Good luck!

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## grayzone (Jan 23, 2013)

hopefully haha..

when i look in through the lid, i SWEAR i see like a tiny "point" (best way to describe what im seeing) on some of the eggs. Possibly those are the beginning of legs emerging? 
Never seen a photo of what ewls look like while forming. Just see eggs, or ewls. 

I hope im not just seeing what i want to see.. 
Now i know why most peoples incubators are clear haha.. mine is transparent blue. Kind of hard to see through, unless looking thrrough one of the ventilation holes.

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## freedumbdclxvi (Jan 23, 2013)

here's hoping they are getting those legs!  

yeah, I was upset about the ezendami sac.  However, I just paired my MF P muticus with a MM I was given on Monday.  I got three successful insertions and I was able to get him out.  Gonna pair them again in a few days.

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## grayzone (Jan 24, 2013)

so today i noticed a couple look dried up.

I took the lid off, took a photo, and added a rolled up and wet paper towel inside the incubator as well.
I dont know if the few dark eggs were due to too low humidity or what, but i figure extra cant hurt.
The vast majority still look good though.  

Should i pluck those bad ones? Do these eggs look "developing"


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## grayzone (Jan 24, 2013)

I guess the pic would help huh?


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## Tman86 (Jan 24, 2013)

grayzone said:


> so today i noticed a couple look dried up.
> 
> I took the lid off, took a photo, and added a rolled up and wet paper towel inside the incubator as well.
> I dont know if the few dark eggs were due to too low humidity or what, but i figure extra cant hurt.
> ...


I have yet to breed T's but I have researched it and I seen people fill cups of water and cover the cups with panty hose to keep the humidity up but again no expert just a suggestion. Good luck, I enjoy rwading your thread.


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## grayzone (Jan 25, 2013)

as an update for today,

upon inspection i noticed a bit more bad looking eggs.. Im not sure if this is due to condensation dropping back down onto them or not, so i stretched a thick papertowel across the top of the incubator, and replaced the lid. This will hopefully stop the droplets. 

On the bright side, a lot of the eggs still look the same, and are getting white speckles to them, and appear to have ribbed looking lines across them .. im ASSUMING that that is a sign legs will be emerging? 
I will continue praying (been doing that a lot and im not really the praying type) for the best and peeking back in tomorrow.


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## catfishrod69 (Jan 25, 2013)

Hopefully something good happens bro. But would think they would have sprouted legs by now. Being that most of the eggs still look good, either they are just taking thier time, or they are not fertile. Hope its just taking some time.


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## Kungfujoe (Jan 27, 2013)

Congrats on getting the eggs to the incubator. 

This is the first time back on this thread since the first couple days..

This is a learning experience for me too.. i wanna try my hand at breeding some of my pocies soon.

Good luck!

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## crawltech (Jan 27, 2013)

Thos "ribbed like lines" are legs bro!....shine the flashl;ight at them horizontily at ground level, and you will see them forming inside!



grayzone said:


> as an update for today,
> 
> upon inspection i noticed a bit more bad looking eggs.. Im not sure if this is due to condensation dropping back down onto them or not, so i stretched a thick papertowel across the top of the incubator, and replaced the lid. This will hopefully stop the droplets.
> 
> ...

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## grayzone (Jan 27, 2013)

well, i VERY QUICKLY moved them last night to a different styled incubator. 
I set up a hammock style and rapidly changed the eggs onto a clean/dry coffee filter and placed it in a tall deli, containing about 2 or 3" of water. the bottom of the filter is about 1" above the water.

I then placed the lid on the makeshift incubator, and it has no ventilation.  I noticed that the deli got a bit cloudy looking overnight, but the plus side is the eggs havent got worse and there is no large condensation droplets forming over the eggs. 

At this point, about 1/3 of the original eggs that went in still look good. the others all looked either black or a dark amber color and were tossed. 
I will get pics later


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## catfishrod69 (Jan 27, 2013)

Be sure to keep moving the eggs around, or they will easily start sticking together.


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## grayzone (Jan 27, 2013)

*Do i admit defeat?*

man this sucks, after a week in the incubator i find these are STILL worsening. 
At what point to i toss in the towel? these eggs did not look look bad last night. I separated them before putting these good ones in the new incubator, and there may have been a few eggs that were slightly darker but still looking good. 
Just checked on them now and they all appear to have a dusty white stuff on them. There still are good looking ones mixed in, but im suspecting they will follow suit.


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## BrettG (Jan 27, 2013)

Stop removing the lid.Rapidly fluctuating humidity=bad.

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## grayzone (Jan 27, 2013)

yeah. I figured that. I removed very briefly last night. Today i did strictly for those pics, and ive basically tossed in the towel with this sack. 
Good news is i can always try again, and i have a few diff females all about to drop any day. 
I will definitely be well prepared for the upcoming sacks, and will be pulling no earlier than 28 days unless the mom seems like shes abandoning the thing.

I will continue incubating this thing, but dont expect any further development of the good eggs.

---------- Post added 01-27-2013 at 05:27 PM ----------

edit.. another reason i removed the lid was to pluck the hard/jelly like black eggs with tweezers. I didnt want any funk spreading


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## cmack91 (Mar 9, 2013)

Hey Steve, just wondering if you have an update for us? Did any of them happen to make it?


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## grayzone (Mar 9, 2013)

nah bro. None of them did. One morning i opened the lid (after leaving them alone for a few days) and they were all dark, semi hard/gummy like, and smelly.

They all hit the trash can.  I was always under the impression that females were like instant premolt after dropping a sack, but that is NOT the case haha. 
Soon as this girl enters premolt i will start the hunt for a new male and try again.

That MM i got from you is still doing fine and has gotten my other female nice and fat too btw.


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## jarmst4 (Mar 10, 2013)

Man that sucks! You were so close. I had my first leopard gecko baby make it half way out of the egg and it died. It drove me crazy being that close and it not working out.


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## Palespider (Mar 11, 2013)

Bah, that sucks man. My last P. ornata sac only 4 slings survived, so I know how it goes =|

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