# fat, premolt, gravid



## Galapoheros (Sep 4, 2010)

How can you tell?  The way I try to tell with P. imperator is by looking at the shape of the body.  To me, gravid emps have a shape that looks like a squash, with the carapace being the thinning end(neck)of the squash shape.  Premolt and mature fat emps seem to be more shaped like a football, of course immatures have a light telson.  I took pics but didn't upload, they're really bad pics.  I have an emp that I think will have babies any day now, squash shaped.  A lot of people are bored with emps, I think mostly because they are so available, but scorplings from this female are important to me because they will be from both 6 inch male and female imperator parents.  I plan to take them to maturity to check out the size, easy enough, low maintenance.  Anybody notice this with their other species?  But what if you have a gravid AND fat emp lol?


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## Michiel (Sep 4, 2010)

It is very simple, keep notes of the ages of your scorpions and keep them separate. By doing this, you can rule out gravidity. And you know your feeding schedule, so you would then be able to asses when it will molt.


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## Galapoheros (Sep 4, 2010)

That's a good idea.  I was thinking more about when one is seen in a pet store, not knowing where it's been.  Gravid emps seem to have a particular shape to them, maybe because of the isolated locality of the embryos, compared to fat filling more of the body(?)  I don't know, I haven't seen enough examples, anybody else notice something like this. ...maybe there is nothing to it but it's how some of my gravid Heterometrus have looked also, large only around the tergites but still thin in the front approx 1/3rd of the body.


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## Michiel (Sep 4, 2010)

Galapoheros said:


> That's a good idea.  I was thinking more about when one is seen in a pet store, not knowing where it's been.  Gravid emps seem to have a particular shape to them, maybe because of the isolated locality of the embryos, compared to fat filling more of the body(?)  I don't know, I haven't seen enough examples, anybody else notice something like this. ...maybe there is nothing to it but it's how some of my gravid Heterometrus have looked also, large only around the tergites but still thin in the front approx 1/3rd of the body.


Scorpion skin wears down the older they get. There is a difference to see between young and old specimens, the younger being more brightly colored, and adults being darker, maybe even matte. Both fat and gravid scorpions exhibit extended tergites and sternites with the membranes between them expanded. When gravid females are close to parturition, you can often see embryos shimmering through the pleural membrane if this membrane is not too dark, this is of course not the case in scorpions that are close to ecdysis (molt). When scorpions are close to a molt all tergites and sternites are separated and in gravid females, the accent of bulging is on the posterior side of the mesosoma. The more scorpions you see, the more experienced you get, as in many things.


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## Galapoheros (Sep 4, 2010)

So your answer is "yes"?  I was interested in the topic of "shape".  One that's hard for me to tell is Hadogenes sps., more obvious in Pandinus and heterometrus, as long as they are only gravid and not gravid "and" fat.  One time when I was a kid, I went to get my haircut and asked the lady if she was pregnant or if she just looked that way.  I was being sincere, shouldn't have said that "before" I got my haircut.


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## xchondrox (Sep 5, 2010)

Michiel said:


> It is very simple, keep notes of the ages of your scorpions and keep them separate. By doing this, you can rule out gravidity. .


Did you just make up a word?


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## H. laoticus (Sep 5, 2010)

xchondrox said:


> Did you just make up a word?


no, he didn't lol


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## skinheaddave (Sep 5, 2010)

Galapoheros said:


> So your answer is "yes"?  I was interested in the topic of "shape".


I have also noticed the difference in shape (squash<-->football) that you describe.

Cheers,
Dave


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## AzJohn (Sep 6, 2010)

So what do you guys think. She looks football shaped to me.  The only reason I'm asking is that my last breeding attempt left the male missing a leg. I'd hate not breed them but the risk of loosing the male seams fairly high. She is P exitialis, at least I think she is. She is also missing the end of her tail. I wouldn't think that would make her less reseptive to a male? I just set up a new breeding tank and the male has already been placed in the tank as of a few hours ago. If the female isn't gravid she goes in soon, hopfully well fed and not hungry.


JOhn


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## Galapoheros (Sep 6, 2010)

Sorry, I should've mentioned I was referring to a side view only.  I think sometimes you can increase the odds of making a good guess, but if she's fat and gravid, who knows, and well, who knows anyway, just something I threw out there.  Here's a bad example, I couldn't take a good pic because she bolts under the rock if I open the top.


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## AzJohn (Sep 6, 2010)

Here are some side view. Kind of hard to get, she kept turning into the camera.


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## Galapoheros (Sep 6, 2010)

I'd guess 'yes' but ......:?only kind of a hunch.  It'd be good to have a little sonogram machine


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## AzJohn (Sep 6, 2010)

Galapoheros said:


> I'd guess 'yes' but ......:?only kind of a hunch.  It'd be good to have a little sonogram machine


Thanks, I such a noob when it comes to this genus. The female lived with the male for a few days prior to ripping his leg off. Hopfully I'll have some babies fairly soon. I'll keep an eye her to see if she stops eating or if babies start to become visable through the skin. If I have no babies or obvious signs of gravidity in a month or so I'll try breeding her again.

John


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## rd_07 (Sep 7, 2010)

Galapoheros said:


> How can you tell?  The way I try to tell with P. imperator is by looking at the shape of the body.  To me, gravid emps have a shape that looks like a squash, with the carapace being the thinning end(neck)of the squash shape.  Premolt and mature fat emps seem to be more shaped like a football, of course immatures have a light telson.  I took pics but didn't upload, they're really bad pics.  I have an emp that I think will have babies any day now, squash shaped.  A lot of people are bored with emps, I think mostly because they are so available, but scorplings from this female are important to me because they will be from both 6 inch male and female imperator parents.  I plan to take them to maturity to check out the size, easy enough, low maintenance.  Anybody notice this with their other species?  But what if you have a gravid AND fat emp lol?



usually i look at the sides
premolt will be easy coz its darker(most sp.),  hard part is fat and gravid.
if you dont have record, if its mated last month of gestation you'll see the embryo(not sure if the right word) of the slings 


this small one is just fat


Uploaded with ImageShack.us


premolt


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Uploaded with ImageShack.us


gravid


Uploaded with ImageShack.us





By RD07 at 2010-09-06


still looking for the pics of my emp when she was gravid


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## Michiel (Sep 7, 2010)

Galapoheros said:


> So your answer is "yes"?  I was interested in the topic of "shape".  One that's hard for me to tell is Hadogenes sps., more obvious in Pandinus and heterometrus, as long as they are only gravid and not gravid "and" fat.  One time when I was a kid, I went to get my haircut and asked the lady if she was pregnant or if she just looked that way.  I was being sincere, shouldn't have said that "before" I got my haircut.


LOL, Dude that's what you DON'T ask, under any circumstance.....
When you don't know the actual age of the scorpion and you are looking at an animal in a store or convention, it is kind of difficult. In most Buthids, when gravid, you can see embryo's through the pleural membrane, but this is more difficult to see in Pandinus, Heterometrus and Opisthopthalmus (to name a few genera) sp. First thing to do is to check if the specimen is adult. In most cases there are some speciesspecific characters or sexual dimorphism, so look for those. Second, establish if it is a WC specimen or CB. 
The breeder can provide info about his/ her specimens. If WC you can only GUESS in most cases. Most football/ cone shaped, blimp WC females are brought in gravid, but sometimes is it is hard to see. 

One tip: if there are bulges on one side only or local bulges, don't buy the animal as it could be sick.


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## Galapoheros (Sep 7, 2010)

So your answer is "maybe", "sometimes", haha, kiddin.  Well OK thanks everybody, it's just something I thought I might be seeing, esp. in imperators.  I'm aware of sometimes being able to see the embryos sometimes through the pleural membrane, depending on the species and of all the other things mentioned.  It was only the side view shape I was curious about in the thread.  Maybe something to consider when trying to pick out a gravid scorpion but probably not much merit to it if any.


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## H. laoticus (Sep 7, 2010)

Galapoheros said:


> So your answer is "maybe", "sometimes", haha, kiddin.  Well OK thanks everybody, it's just something I thought I might be seeing, esp. in imperators.  I'm aware of sometimes being able to see the embryos sometimes through the pleural membrane, depending on the species and of all the other things mentioned.  It was only the side view shape I was curious about in the thread.  Maybe something to consider when trying to pick out a gravid scorpion but probably not much merit to it if any.


I found this thread pretty useful because I've been planning on picking a gravid emp from the pet shop for a while.  I was actually planning on swapping it with one of the non-gravid ones that I have 
If I end up with a gravid one, I'll be sure to report back.


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## redhourglass (Sep 7, 2010)

Hey all,

See also the parasites for alternatives with shapes and sizes. All the photos seen to date of post are healthy except one from Galo with a bulge in the side shot.?

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=44779&page=2

Sinc. Chad


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## Michiel (Sep 8, 2010)

Galapoheros said:


> So your answer is "maybe", "sometimes", haha, kiddin.  Well OK thanks everybody, it's just something I thought I might be seeing, esp. in imperators.  I'm aware of sometimes being able to see the embryos sometimes through the pleural membrane, depending on the species and of all the other things mentioned.  It was only the side view shape I was curious about in the thread.  Maybe something to consider when trying to pick out a gravid scorpion but probably not much merit to it if any.


Frankly, Yes  LOL. If you can't see through the membrane,which is often the case, there are several possibilities: well fed, sick, gravid, etc. That's why I exclusively buy young, so I know their age and can breed them when adult (so I can control the process from begin to end).


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