# Instant replacements!



## Draiman (Jun 12, 2008)

WOOT! I bought 4 pedes today - all _Scolopendra subspinipes mutilans_ (2 "Yellow Leg", 2 "Red Leg"). The best thing is, these pedes normally have their fangs clipped to prevent injury to the sellers and to the fishkeepers and their fish because these pedes are actually fish food. But, surprise, surprise, my 2 Red Legs have intact fangs! Without further ado, here are some pics of the communal set-up and the critters themselves.


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## SAn (Jun 12, 2008)

Bet in the coming days you ll post how one ate another


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## Draiman (Jun 12, 2008)

SAn said:


> Bet in the coming days you ll post how one ate another


Let's have a wager on that.

_Scolopendra subspinipes mutilans_ is a communal centipede, FYI.


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## SAn (Jun 12, 2008)

I know that , but i ll still wage ya


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## cjm1991 (Jun 12, 2008)

Phark said:


> Let's have a wager on that.
> 
> _Scolopendra subspinipes mutilans_ is a communal centipede, FYI.


Yeah Ill wager you also. As soon as one molts it is pede food. And get them off woodchips please... Its not a reptile you no?? Not trying to be mean its just so easy to get a bag of clean plain topsoil or something better. Thats my 2 cents. 

-CJM-


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## Draiman (Jun 12, 2008)

cjm1991 said:


> Yeah Ill wager you also. As soon as one molts it is pede food. And get them off woodchips please... Its not a reptile you no?? Not trying to be mean its just so easy to get a bag of clean plain topsoil or something better. Thats my 2 cents.
> 
> -CJM-


Roflol. So many people have kept their _Sc. subspinipes mutilans_ in communal tanks. You should go do a search. These pedes were all kept in communal tanks at the pet shop too. I posted to express my jubilation at obtaining these beauties. Get off my thread since all you have to offer is criticism. I like keeping my pedes on bark and that is MY problem, not yours, genius.


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## dtknow (Jun 12, 2008)

Phark: not criticism...just sound advice! I'd move them to a more soil like substrate. We'd all like to see your pedes do well, and maybe breed.

And yes, mutilans are known to eat eachother on the occasion, look around on this forum. Yes, the chances of one eating the other does make for a decent wager. But that is a risk you need to accept. Chances are if they've been together for a while they should be ok...


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## Draiman (Jun 12, 2008)

dtknow said:


> And yes, mutilans are known to eat eachother on the occasion, look around on this forum. Yes, the chances of one eating the other does make for a decent wager. But that is a risk you need to accept. Chances are if they've been together for a while they should be ok...


I agree, there's always a risk. But I always keep my pedes very well fed (perhaps even too well-fed) so they should be fine.

Can someone tell me what on earth is wrong with bark as a substrate? This is "Jungle Earth" from ExoTerra, a pretty reputable brand.


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## crpy (Jun 12, 2008)

Phark said:


> I agree, there's always a risk. But I always keep my pedes very well fed (perhaps even too well-fed) so they should be fine.
> 
> Can someone tell me what on earth is wrong with bark as a substrate? This is "Jungle Earth" from ExoTerra, a pretty reputable brand.


I think the big thing is people are saying it cant burrow in bark, and they think it should burrow. The sternites on a pede are tough though


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## Rydog (Jun 12, 2008)

Great pictures of a beautiful species. I really love how red their legs are. I think people would get their points across a lot better if they were a little less blunt about it. Im glad you got replacements for your loss.


The main concern about using wood chips is that it does not hold a burrow as well as peat or soil. Without a burrow your pedes will be stressed and likely live a shorter life.


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## cjm1991 (Jun 12, 2008)

Phark said:


> I agree, there's always a risk. But I always keep my pedes very well fed (perhaps even too well-fed) so they should be fine.
> 
> Can someone tell me what on earth is wrong with bark as a substrate? This is "Jungle Earth" from ExoTerra, a pretty reputable brand.


Alright do a quick search "genius" and you will find that all pedes enjoy to burrow, and if they cant they will be alot more stressed out, die alot faster, and probably more prone to eat one another. Want more flamming? You can take our advice and your pedes will do better or be stubborn I dont care in the end my pedes will be alot more happy and do 10X better than yours so I can care less. Have fun finding body parts scattered after there first molts.


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## Draiman (Jun 12, 2008)

cjm1991 said:


> Alright do a quick search "genius" and you will find that all pedes enjoy to burrow, and if they cant they will be alot more stressed out, die alot faster, and probably more prone to eat one another. Want more flamming? You can take our advice and your pedes will do better or be stubborn I dont care in the end my pedes will be alot more happy and do 10X better than yours so I can care less. Have fun finding body parts scattered after there first molts.


When did I ever say pedes cannot burrow in bark? In the first pic in the top left hand corner there's already one of them half-buried. So stop being a Klown.


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## cjm1991 (Jun 12, 2008)

Lol why be a part of this site if your not willing to take advice? But no your pedes would be 10 x less stressed if they had a nice substrate to burrow in. Idc you dont have to listen to me but you could admit your wrong and learn from mistakes. Your lose.


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## Draiman (Jun 12, 2008)

cjm1991 said:


> Lol why be a part of this site if your not willing to take advice? But no your pedes would be 10 x less stressed if they had a nice substrate to burrow in. Idc you dont have to listen to me but you could admit your wrong and learn from mistakes. Your lose.


You're obviously blind. In the first pic I posted anyone else will clearly see that one of the pedes is already half-buried. In fact, right now all of them are in their burrows. Do you want me to show you some photos before you are convinced that *CENTIPEDES CAN BURROW IN BARK*?

By the way, your grammar is screwed. It's "loss", not "lose". "Lose" is a verb.


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## cjm1991 (Jun 13, 2008)

Phark said:


> You're obviously blind. In the first pic I posted anyone else will clearly see that one of the pedes is already half-buried. In fact, right now all of them are in their burrows. Do you want me to show you some photos before you are convinced that *CENTIPEDES CAN BURROW IN BARK*?
> 
> By the way, your grammar is screwed. It's "loss", not "lose". "Lose" is a verb.


Sorry "s" happens to be by "e". I dont care if your trying to argue I already made a better point than you and when my pedes do better and live longer I think I already won. So im done with this thread.


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## Draiman (Jun 13, 2008)

cjm1991 said:


> Sorry "s" happens to be by "e". I dont care if your trying to argue I already made a better point than you and when my pedes do better and live longer I think I already won. So im done with this thread.


Please tell me how your point is superior to mine. Your point was that centipedes cannot burrow in bark. I proved you wrong with my pics. So who lost the argument here? You're saying you're done with this thread only because you're trying to avoid humiliation. :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:


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## cjm1991 (Jun 13, 2008)

Lol. Do you get pride out of argueing over the computer. My point is my pedes will live longer. Bark is not good substrate for pedes. Its a very known thing, like I said before do a simple search and you will find numerous threads saying the same thing.


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## Draiman (Jun 13, 2008)

cjm1991 said:


> Lol. Do you get pride out of argueing over the computer. *My point is my pedes will live longer.* Bark is not good substrate for pedes. Its a very known thing, like I said before do a simple search and you will find numerous threads saying the same thing.


Once you prove to me that your pedes will live longer than mine, I'll bow to you.


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## SAn (Jun 13, 2008)

Just realise what kind of natural inhabitants centipedes have and try simulate the substrate a bit. 
they dont live in bark chips. Anyway noone is trying to make you feel bad or prove you wrong. You can do whatever you like, most opinions are offered as help


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## Steven (Jun 13, 2008)

trying not to involve in the discussion,
but who says some pedes don't live on bark chips 
but i think in nature underneath "natural bark chips" there's always soil   

@ Phark
are those the only available Scolopendrids in Singapore pet-shops ?
just wondering if no other specie would also been offered as fishfood :?


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## Draiman (Jun 13, 2008)

SAn said:


> Just realise what kind of natural inhabitants centipedes have and try simulate the substrate a bit.
> they dont live in bark chips. Anyway noone is trying to make you feel bad or prove you wrong. You can do whatever you like, most opinions are offered as help


Look - _Sc. subspinipes mutilans_ is a tropical rainforest species. On the forest floor in rainforests what do you find? - yes, rotting bark, rotting leaf litter, and then some soil below.


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## Draiman (Jun 13, 2008)

Steven said:


> @ Phark
> are those the only available Scolopendrids in Singapore pet-shops ?
> just wondering if no other specie would also been offered as fishfood :?


_Sc. subspinipes mutilans_ in the only species offered as fish food here because:

1) They're easily available from centipede farms
2) They're communal; thus economical to house
3) Their bright colour leads naive fishkeepers to think that they can enhance colour in fish (namely Arowanas)


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## Draiman (Jun 13, 2008)

cjm1991 said:


> Lol. Do you get pride out of argueing over the computer. My point is my pedes will live longer. Bark is not good substrate for pedes. Its a very known thing, like I said before do a simple search and you will find numerous threads saying the same thing.


To prove that your pedes live longer than mine because you use a substrate other than bark, you will have to establish that substrate is the only control variable, and that all other variables that affect centipede lifespan remain constant. And so, *we will both have to have a same-sized tank, with a same-sized pede of the same species and same colour morph, with the same humidity, with a same-sized water dish, with identical food and feeding amounts, with identical temperatures.*

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:


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## nissan480 (Jun 13, 2008)

WOW,Your obviously incapable of taking advice.If you call that a burrow,you need to read a dictionary.

Just because your pede's survive,doestn mean that things are good.

Ive seen dogs survive some horrible conditions,but that doesnt make them healthy!

To people trying to help,just let it go.

This is a forum for keeping pede's(PROPERLY),and he obviously has nothing to add,or nothing to learn!


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## Draiman (Jun 13, 2008)

nissan480 said:


> WOW,Your obviously incapable of taking advice.*If you call that a burrow,you need to read a dictionary.*
> 
> Just because your pede's survive,doestn mean that things are good.


I have a simple question for you:

*Do you want to see pictorial evidence that ALL FOUR of my pedes are now in their burrows?*


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## Draiman (Jun 13, 2008)

I would like to add that I am fully appreciative of constructive advice. It's just that CJM barged in here and dished out his "advice" in a tone I did not like. Moreover, this was a PICTURE thread in the first place, showcasing my newest purchases. I did not outwardly ask for advice of any sort.



Rydog said:


> Great pictures of a beautiful species. I really love how red their legs are. *I think people would get their points across a lot better if they were a little less blunt about it.* Im glad you got replacements for your loss.


This has probably been the most tactful response so far. Thanks, Ryan!


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## bluefrogtat2 (Jun 13, 2008)

*agree*

i agree with other posted replys .theres a difference in a burrowing and a burrow.they cannot maintain a burrow in the wood chips.it will collapse.
and as far as them being communal.very debatable.i started with four very healthy mutilans set them up in a 29 high(with coco peat,so they can make a burrow)and two months later have one very fat female.even though i have 11 colonys of roaches and feed them as often as they will accept food.
can they be kept on bark?sure but it surely isn't optimal they need something that will retain a burrow.
sorry to disagree.advise given was well deserved.seems like you are arguing just to argue.
nice pics though.and congrats on new pedes.
andy


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## crpy (Jun 13, 2008)

Hey Phark, 
people are not robots, they WILL give you their opinion on any thread, that just goes with the territory.

Take it as constructive thing even if its a negative comment you still learned something for next time.


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## Draiman (Jun 13, 2008)

bluefrogtat2 said:


> i agree with other posted replys .theres a difference in a burrowing and a burrow.they cannot maintain a burrow in the wood chips.it will collapse.
> and as far as them being communal.very debatable.i started with four very healthy mutilans set them up in a 29 high(with coco peat,so they can make a burrow)and two months later have one very fat female.even though i have 11 colonys of roaches and feed them as often as they will accept food.
> can they be kept on bark?sure but it surely isn't optimal they need something that will retain a burrow.


I have to disagree. I think bark may actually hold a tunnel-like burrow better than soil because bark is lightweight. Bark isn't compacted like soil. The pedes make use of the gaps in between to burrow. And I don't mess the bark pieces around so technically the "burrows" remain. It's a 3" layer of substrate, by the way. As I type right now they're all underground.

Thanks for sharing your experience with these communal pedes. Nevertheless I'm still going to try keeping my pedes together.

And thanks for the compliments.


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## cjm1991 (Jun 13, 2008)

Alright you dont need to take advice from people who obviously know more about the hobby than you, but anyone that cares for there pedes would have. This just shows your lack of concern for them. And argueing over the internet is pretty pointless, even though after quit a few people sided with me, you are still Eraged that I pointed out your flaws. You could learn from mistakes... Cavemen were capable of doing that... or just keep trying to argue that you are right.. Noone obviously cares


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## Draiman (Jun 13, 2008)

cjm1991 said:


> *Alright you dont need to take advice from people who obviously know more about the hobby than you*


I can't stand people who praise themselves so publicly. How much more about centipedes do you know compared to me? I'd like to find out. Blast me with your wisdom, please.

By the way, you Americans should check this thread out and learn from the Britons. Looking at all the positive responses they gave me, the gulf in courtesy skills between you guys and the British is very apparent.

http://www.arachnophiles.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=7160


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## bluefrogtat2 (Jun 13, 2008)

*funny thing is*

funny thing is the thread you posted most of the replies had no idea that mutilans were considered communal.but yeah understood,sucks that us americans are trying to give advise on keeping them in a healthier enviroment.we are so uncordial
andy


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## Draiman (Jun 13, 2008)

bluefrogtat2 said:


> we are so uncordial


Glad you realised.

EDIT: "Oh and what was the issue with the Jungle earth? A lot of species are highly adaptable, moreso than we give them credit for to be honest, as James said, *sometimes it can't be accepted that a different way may just work*!" - Huk7, Arachnophiles admin

What does the above quote signify? You guys are simply unflexible and rigid. Clearly Huk7 managed to look at things from a better perspective - something at which you guys failed.


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## dtknow (Jun 13, 2008)

Fact of the matter is, in the rainforest the litter layer is seldom very thick. Right below it is soil...or more appropriately, clay(such as laterite). Also, my personal opinion is that in wet forests bark "chips" like you use are pretty rare. They quickly get turned into this soft crumbly stuff and eventually into leafmold. and guess where most of the centipedes are when I flip logs?

I'm sure I mentioned this somewhere else, but I am not buying pede farms.


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## Draiman (Jun 13, 2008)

dtknow said:


> *Fact of the matter is, in the rainforest the litter layer is seldom very thick*.


Show me evidence of this. In rainforests there is such a huge organic bioload that the leaf litter is often a thick layer, contrary to what you think. I live in Singapore. The entire island used to be covered in tropical rainforest. I know what it's like in a rainforest. I am also a Pure Geography student. Well anyway *proof first, talk later*.


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## AzJohn (Jun 13, 2008)

Cool pictures. I'm glad to see them eating. Are the ones without "fangs" able to feed.

John


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## bluefrogtat2 (Jun 13, 2008)

*also*

EDIT: "Oh and what was the issue with the Jungle earth? A lot of species are highly adaptable, moreso than we give them credit for to be honest, as James said, sometimes it can't be accepted that a different way may just work!" - Huk7, Arachnophiles admin

What does the above quote signify? You guys are simply unflexible and rigid. Clearly Huk7 managed to look at things from a better perspective - something at which you guys failed.
__________________
also the guy you cited claims he doesn't keep pedes.
good quote.really argued your point with that one.
andy


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## dtknow (Jun 13, 2008)

Phark said:


> Show me evidence of this. In rainforests there is such a huge organic bioload that the leaf litter is often a thick layer, contrary to what you think. I live in Singapore. The entire island used to be covered in tropical rainforest. I know what it's like in a rainforest. I am also a Pure Geography student. Well anyway *proof first, talk later*.


Compared to temperate forests? Not so much. Decomposition occurs much faster in rainforests. 

From Wikipedia
"Despite the growth of vegetation in a rainforest, soil quality is often quite poor. Rapid bacterial decay prevents the accumulation of humus. The concentration of iron and aluminium oxides by the laterization process gives the oxisols a bright red color and sometimes produces minable deposits such as bauxite). On younger substrates, especially of volcanic origin, tropical soils may be quite fertile."
The power of a rainforest ecosystem is that the high levels of organic matter are cycled rapidly by the abundant and diverse decomposers.

In any case though, bark chips is not a good simulation of what these critters find themselves in in the wild. If I were to use them as substrate I'd figure out some way to get them to decompose, first.

The guys on the other forum may have been patting you on the back for your beautiful pedes, but I don't see much solid advice/debate being exchanged.


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## Draiman (Jun 13, 2008)

AzJohn said:


> Cool pictures. I'm glad to see them eating. Are the ones without "fangs" able to feed.
> 
> John


You're the second poster here who didn't immediately flame me with his/her first post. Thanks and thanks for the compliment too. Well technically they do still have fangs it's just the tips that are clipped, hence removing their ability to envenomate anything. But they can still subdue suitably-sized prey.


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## Eclipse (Jun 13, 2008)

Actually, the centipedes here live in very rough, rugid rocks and dead twigs under a huge carpet near a garden here somewhere. I then tried keeping them in soil and gave it the proper pede setup and it died in 2 days. The fact they live ABOVE the soil is very interesting.

I now have them in 1/4 soil and 3/4 rocks. They go no where near the soil, but they like to stay above and inbetween the rigid rocks. This might actually be a better way to keep certain native pedes. I've had them for over a month and they seem to do better.

Phark, keep us updated on your pedes and it would be cool if you posted more pics.


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## Draiman (Jun 13, 2008)

dtknow said:


> Compared to temperate forests? Not so much. Decomposition occurs much faster in rainforests.
> 
> From Wikipedia
> "Despite the growth of vegetation in a rainforest, soil quality is often quite poor. Rapid bacterial decay prevents the accumulation of humus. The concentration of iron and aluminium oxides by the laterization process gives the oxisols a bright red color and sometimes produces minable deposits such as bauxite). On younger substrates, especially of volcanic origin, tropical soils may be quite fertile."
> ...


Fine, you win.

Highlighted in bold above - You're right, but at least they didn't flame me. I said it simply shows the gulf between you people in terms of courtesy skills.


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## Draiman (Jun 13, 2008)

Eclipse said:


> Actually, the centipedes here live in very rough, rugid rocks and dead twigs under a huge carpet near a garden here somewhere. I then tried keeping them in soil and gave it the proper pede setup and it died in 2 days. *The fact they live ABOVE the soil is very interesting.*
> 
> I now have them in 1/4 soil and 3/4 rocks. They go no where near the soil, but they like to stay above and inbetween the rigid rocks. This might actually be a better way to keep certain native pedes.
> 
> Phark, keep us updated on your pedes and it would be cool if you posted more pics.


Awesome! Thanks for supporting my stand. I've lots more pics in my computer but it's almost 2 in the morning over here now and I gotta catch some sleep. I'll post them tomorrow for sure.


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## crpy (Jun 13, 2008)

AzJohn said:


> Cool pictures. I'm glad to see them eating. Are the ones without "fangs" able to feed.
> 
> John


hummm, this one appears to be a rude, crasse American what do you think Hobson,umm yes, yes it twas, I do believe your bloody right old boy, um um nudge nudge wink wink.


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## cjm1991 (Jun 13, 2008)

If you are incapable of taking advice this is not the site for you. You will learn eventually that your wrong and will be able to accept it instead of having a fit like a 2 year old. And really must you PM me over this? It just shows you have nothing better to do with your life besides argue on the computer, and btw I have a job which I have been at for the past 5 hours... sorry I couldn't sit and argue with a random asian kid.


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## Everyexcuse4me (Jun 13, 2008)

dtknow said:


> Compared to temperate forests? Not so much. Decomposition occurs much faster in rainforests.
> 
> From Wikipedia
> "Despite the growth of vegetation in a rainforest, soil quality is often quite poor. Rapid bacterial decay prevents the accumulation of humus. The concentration of iron and aluminium oxides by the laterization process gives the oxisols a bright red color and sometimes produces minable deposits such as bauxite). On younger substrates, especially of volcanic origin, tropical soils may be quite fertile."
> ...


What has fertile soil got to do with a pede? They're not plants and need fertile soil to thrive.
The humus is rapidly decayed but more leaves and bark and twigs fall everyday. There will always be a top layer of fallen plant material no matter how quick these decompose.
And yes, they may be patting him on the back but the entire purpose of the thread was to check out his pedes *AND NOT* flame him. And please check out the way people "*GAVE HIM ADVICE*"

And you say *a good simulation* . Well if soil's just simulation then anything that provides moist and dark shetler is sufficent isn't it?

"Bet in the coming days you ll post how one ate another" - SAn
"Yeah Ill wager you also. As soon as one molts it is pede food. And get them off woodchips please... Its not a reptile you no?? Not trying to be mean its just so easy to get a bag of clean plain topsoil or something better. Thats my 2 cents." - cjm1991 (btw are you 17?)

How can you expect him to take any advice if you want to 'wager' with him and not sit down and explain your opinion instead of forcing him to listen to you? Why do you have to answer to his thread in a 'hostile' manner? 

The first post already was talking about dead pedes. Don't you have any sense to at least explain why you think so or that you "think soil is best for pedes" instead of telling him that the pedes will die and "And get them off woodchips please... Its not a reptile you no??" like you're just insulting his intelligence.

Couldn't you have told him to separate the pedes because you fear they may eat each other instead of saying that they WILL eat each other? Words make a difference.

Well if you can't take this as my opinion then thats just rad.



cjm1991 said:


> If you are incapable of taking advice this is not the site for you. You will learn eventually that your wrong and will be able to accept it instead of having a fit like a 2 year old. And really must you PM me over this? It just shows you have nothing better to do with your life besides argue on the computer, and btw I have a job which *I have been at for the past 5 hours.*.. sorry I couldn't sit and argue with a random asian kid.



Well honestly if you have better things to do why post here? Are you afraid of losing out? Btw thats not advice in my opinion. Thats forcing him to change the jungle earth to soil because it's stated in all the care sheets and stuff you all read. He's apparently not so naive to believe all the reason you have gave him. If the main purpose of the substrate was to allow the pede to find a moist, dark shelter, and they have done so, then whats your case? 

Random asian kid -  well I've seen your myspace and you're no older than my nephew. Stereotype all you want, because that's just going to aggrevate him.

I'm not a pede pro, I'm sorry. But i know enough to post on this thread.


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## Tleilaxu (Jun 13, 2008)

Lovely pedes! I am unsure about the setup it seems fine, I will ask few pede experts on the matter...


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## Draiman (Jun 13, 2008)

cjm1991 said:


> sorry I couldn't sit and argue with a random asian kid.


Beginning to resort to direct insults now eh? It's understandable though; remember how you got trounced by What in that argument and then started to insult him? Typical.


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## Eclipse (Jun 13, 2008)

Yes, what does being asian have to do with all of this? Well Phark, you can just try your best to ignore things, but I've been interested in this species for a while and I'd like to see more of it.


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## Draiman (Jun 13, 2008)

Eclipse said:


> *Yes, what does being asian have to do with all of this?* Well Phark, you can just try your best to ignore things, but I've been interested in this species for a while and I'd like to see more of it.


Yeah exactly. He said I was acting like a 2-year-old, but his insults are sending his reputation through the floor.


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## Eclipse (Jun 13, 2008)

Well keep those pics coming! I'm anxious, this is my all time favorite species.


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## cjm1991 (Jun 14, 2008)

Eclipse said:


> Yes, what does being asian have to do with all of this? Well Phark, you can just try your best to ignore things, but I've been interested in this species for a while and I'd like to see more of it.


we'll it makes more sense when you read a page or so back he's  saying us Americans know nothing about the hobby. He's  clearly been proven ignorant and can't simply accept it.


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## Rydog (Jun 14, 2008)

CJM, there are Asian americans....Also, this thread has gone too far and I think its time we put an end to it.

EDIT- I mean an end to the remarks about substrate and Nationalities......


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## Eclipse (Jun 14, 2008)

Because he's asian? I feel that this topic will be locked anyway, but yes, I've had read the previous posts and all I saw was "We're right and you're wrong" though we have never tried keeping our centipedes in bark, just give it a chance. 

It might turn out for the good and WE as Americans might learn something from this. If your point doesn't get through then what's the point of arguing back and forth?

Phark if you want, continue on using the bark, your choice and be sure keep us updated.


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## Tleilaxu (Jun 14, 2008)

This substrate will work as long as its kept moist and the pedes provided with a shallow water dish also hides are welcome as well. Just make sure it does not get mold because aslthough I have not kept pedes I have used this type of substrate before and it can mold fast.

Good luck happy breeding and I agree this flamefest is annoying.


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## cjm1991 (Jun 14, 2008)

Rydog said:


> CJM, there are Asian americans....Also, this thread has gone too far and I think its time we put an end to it.


Umm read the first maybe second page where I very clearly say im done with this thread. He then felt the urge to PM me because he felt I had "insulted" him when I was obviously giving him advice. Is that not what this forum is for?


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## cjm1991 (Jun 14, 2008)

Random asian kid -  well I've seen your myspace and you're no older than my nephew. Stereotype all you want, because that's just going to aggrevate him.

I'm not a pede pro, I'm sorry. But i know enough to post on this thread.

So you actually take time to look into my myspace. LOL. Im alot more mature than my age and this is after all -the internet- a place where age means nothing. I called him a Asian kid because hes clearly very hurt emotionally that I pointed out his flaws and so he resorts to saying Americans are all just ignorant no-nothings. And if you think his idea for substrate is a good idea use it on your inverts???;P  My guess is that you will stick to eco-earth or some other SOIL based substrate. Therefore I obviously have something to contribute to this forum, what does him having a little hissy fit have to offer? Please let me know... dont worry, Ill wait.:clap:


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## Rydog (Jun 14, 2008)

I agree that this forum is for people to share and recieve advice, among other things, at the same time, is everyone on here supposed to have the same views about everything as others? But i agree that people need to open up a bit. 


@Phark

Do the two color forms you have come from the same area? and do you plan on taking them off a frog diet?


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## Rydog (Jun 14, 2008)

I have something else to offer:

Debating, like we WERE doing, has a point, insulting each other based on how open people are to certain things is wrong. Remember, we share a common interest.


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## Eclipse (Jun 14, 2008)

cjm1991 said:


> *I called him a Asian kid because hes clearly very hurt emotionally that I pointed out his flaws and so he resorts to saying Americans are all just ignorant no-nothings.* And if you think his idea for substrate is a good idea use it on your inverts???;P


Woah... Dude, I must say, that was very harsh, *ignorant*, stereotypical, and almost racist in a way. I would of found that very insulting. I DO use bark and rigid rocks for one of my native species that live here under a carpet by a garden somewhere around here. They lived longer in that than they do soil. 

However I DO prefer soil much more than bark and I will think this might be a good learning experience to find the PRO's and CON's of bark.


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## cjm1991 (Jun 14, 2008)

Well even though you have no evidence that the bark itself made the pede live longer, you also have hides. Look at his enclosure and you will see no hides, or anything, besides bark. They cannot sustain a good burrow in wood. And I have yet to see a pede that prefers bark to soil or peat. The healthiest pedes are the ones that sit in there BURROW most of the time and I dont see how a pede can live longer with more stress. But you may be right sense I dont have experience with bark, that being said I will never ever use bark or woodchips for ANY invert I own. Not to mention all the other downsides to wood. Mold being a big one.


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## Eclipse (Jun 14, 2008)

Yeah that's true, the mold on wood is a bit pesky, but that's why we own inverts right? To spoil them until they can't be spoiled no more. Just saying that the native pedes in my area prefer to live in rough areas and crevises because they aren't good at burrowing themselves.


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## cjm1991 (Jun 14, 2008)

My S.Heros Cast. never burrows.. at most it sits under its water dish when it feels it needs more moisture and is sleepy. No disrespect though.. That wasnt my goal in this thread, just trying to give someone advice and they took it the wrong way. But I guess its his loss if they eat each other or die so meanwhile ill enjoy my pedes!


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## Rydog (Jun 14, 2008)

In my own experience, a happy pede is a pede you almost never see.

I wish I could see my castanieceps!


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## Eclipse (Jun 14, 2008)

Rydog said:


> In my own experience, a happy pede is a pede you almost never see.


May Jesus slap you in the face with a holy cross... you are correct.


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## dtknow (Jun 14, 2008)

Eclipse: I'm sure different pedes are different. Since you've seen your species appears to enjoy rocks...then that is an obvious hint as to how to keep them in captivity. Maybe Phark can go look for mutilans in the wild. 

Phark: I don't feel I've been flaming you. A bit blunt, most definetly, and if I've stepped on any toes I am very sorry(but it is hard to convey tone on the internet). I'll say I find the most interesting threads the ones where their is a lively debate on things like this(not a flame war, difference!) not the ones where people are saying how pretty they are...we know that!


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## cjm1991 (Jun 14, 2008)

Rydog said:


> In my own experience, a happy pede is a pede you almost never see.
> 
> I wish I could see my castanieceps!


I agree 100%. I love my SHC the most.. its my biggest and most "docile" pede I own.. what a great combo  I hold it every couple of days sense the only other pedes I can even get a hand near are my polymorhas. My subspinipes are so aggressive that they actually run after my forceps when doing regular cleaning or adjusting.. and feeding them is a whole other story.. lol


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## Eclipse (Jun 14, 2008)

I get nervous when one of my inverts is a little too docile, even thought it's probably just their personality. I keep thinking that they are getting sick or something. It does my heart good when a pede tries to kill me as I give it a good "hello"


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## cjm1991 (Jun 14, 2008)

Well I felt this way at first too, but he/she is a very good eater and never denys food. Ive even hand fed it a large cricket  I also have some pretty mean T's that attack me as soon as the lids off, cobalt blues and my baboons. But also forums like these are alot more intertaining than others by far so in this particular case, Phark was the chosen way you could say that created it. BTW I am not 1 bit sorry for what ive said to you Phark, only sorry that your not taking good advice.


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## Draiman (Jun 14, 2008)

cjm1991 said:


> we'll it makes more sense when you read a page or so back he's  saying us Americans know nothing about the hobby. He's  clearly been proven ignorant and can't simply accept it.


Bwahaha. When on earth did I say *Americans know nothing about the hobby*? Show me evidence. I said the British guys were much more tactful and courteous in posting their responses.


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## Draiman (Jun 14, 2008)

cjm1991 said:


> I called him a Asian kid because hes clearly very hurt emotionally that I pointed out his flaws and so he resorts to saying Americans are all just ignorant no-nothings.


Hey you, stop with all the slanderous remarks. I never insulted Americans' knowledge of the hobby. I never said Americans were ignorant. Stop putting words in my mouth, fool.


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## Draiman (Jun 14, 2008)

So you're talking about bark being susceptible to mould. Hmm. I've been using this "Jungle Earth" material from ExoTerra for months and while leftovers do get mouldy sometimes, the bark pieces themselves never grow mould. You can try it yourself if you doubt me.


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## Draiman (Jun 14, 2008)

cjm1991 said:


> Well even though you have no evidence that the bark itself made the pede live longer, you also have hides. Look at his enclosure and you will see no hides, or anything, besides bark. They cannot sustain a good burrow in wood. And I have yet to see a pede that prefers bark to soil or peat. The healthiest pedes are the ones that sit in there *BURROW most of the time and I dont see how a pede can live longer with more stress.* But you may be right sense I dont have experience with bark, that being said I will never ever use bark or woodchips for ANY invert I own. Not to mention all the other downsides to wood. Mold being a big one.


Do you have any shred of evidence that a bark substrate will give a centipede more stress?

*And you have yet to see a pede prefer bark to soil or peat plainly because you have NEVER tried using bark, like you said.*


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## cjm1991 (Jun 14, 2008)

Accept your wrong like everyone else already has. Your the only one still worried about it. Also its very obvious you are only wanting to argue, not learn. Learning is what the sites for, FOOL.


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## Draiman (Jun 14, 2008)

cjm1991 said:


> Accept your wrong like everyone else already has. Your the only one still worried about it. Also its very obvious you are only wanting to argue, not learn. Learning is what the sites for, FOOL.


Don't evade the subject. Show me evidence of me insulting Americans' knowledge of this hobby, since you *accused* me of it.

And how do you know that using bark as a centipede substrate is "wrong"? What is right or wrong in this case? This is such a subjective issue that everything is obviously a matter of opinion. Therefore, how can I accept that I'm wrong when there is no right or wrong in the first place? *If you can establish that using bark as a substrate is WRONG*, then, yes, you win. As usual, I'll be waiting for the evidence. *You'll need to show me a paper by some myriapodologist which can prove that using bark as a substrate for centipedes is detrimental to the centipedes' long-term health*.


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## cjm1991 (Jun 14, 2008)

Stress affects how long they live just like many other inverts. Rough substrate that doesnt sustain a nice burrow will affect their stress levels.


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## Draiman (Jun 14, 2008)

cjm1991 said:


> Stress affects how long they live just like many other inverts. Rough substrate that doesnt sustain a nice burrow will affect their stress levels.


You obviously don't see it. You're supposed to show me *evidence* that using bark as a substrate will cause detriment to a centipede, not hypotheses.

On a side note, Jungle Earth (which is the "bark" I'm using) is light and un-compacted, unlike soil. In other words, my centipedes easily and readily wind through the relatively large gaps in between the pieces of bark. In short, their burrows have already been created naturally because the gaps ensure that there's actually a series of unorthodox "tunnels" in the substrate. Unconventional, but it works for them.

You and your soil-advocating friends simply cannot accept the fact that alternatives are sometimes just as effective as the norm.


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## What (Jun 14, 2008)

I hate to do this but I was linked to this post by another member of the site and felt the need to add a little something.


cjm1991 said:


> Lol why be a part of this site if your not willing to take advice?


Soo, it is ok for you not to take advice but he has to? Pot calling the kettle black much?

*This will be my one and only post in the thread on this topic.*

@ Phark: While I personally would recommend peat as a substrate the bark will probably be fine. Just be very careful of the humidity and the amount of moisture the pede has access to. They dehydrate quite fast.


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## Draiman (Jun 14, 2008)

What said:


> Phark: While I personally would recommend peat as a substrate the bark will probably be fine. Just be very careful of the humidity and the amount of moisture the pede has access to. They dehydrate quite fast.


Noted. Thanks.


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## nissan480 (Jun 14, 2008)

I vote this thread to be deleted.Its 95% garbage.

Ive never seen one like it,and hope to never see one again.


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## Draiman (Jun 14, 2008)

nissan480 said:


> I vote this thread to be deleted.Its 95% garbage.
> 
> Ive never seen one like it,and hope to never see one again.


This post of yours comprises 10% of that 95%.


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## Everyexcuse4me (Jun 14, 2008)

cjm1991 said:


> Random asian kid -  well I've seen your myspace and you're no older than my nephew. Stereotype all you want, because that's just going to aggrevate him.
> 
> I'm not a pede pro, I'm sorry. But i know enough to post on this thread.
> 
> So you actually take time to look into my myspace. LOL. Im alot more mature than my age and this is after all -the internet- a place where age means nothing. I called him a Asian kid because hes clearly very hurt emotionally that I pointed out his flaws and so he resorts to saying Americans are all just ignorant no-nothings. And if you think his idea for substrate is a good idea use it on your inverts???;P  *My guess is that you will stick to eco-earth or some other SOIL based substrate*. Therefore I obviously have something to contribute to this forum, what does him having a little hissy fit have to offer? Please let me know... dont worry, Ill wait.:clap:


I look at your myspace cause I want to see how old you truly are. The internet is a place where ages means nothing so maybe act like someone older and more mature.

Just so you know, my Phlogiellus inermis lives with Jungle earth as well. I don't see anything wrong with it and its a lot  safer than picking up chunks of soil from the ground and my pet store only carries this. I know, pedes and spiders are different but my inverts use it.



cjm1991 said:


> Well even though you have no evidence that the bark itself made the pede live longer, you also have hides. Look at his enclosure and you will see no hides, or anything, besides bark. They cannot sustain a good burrow in wood. And I have yet to see a pede that prefers bark to soil or peat. T*he healthiest pedes are the ones that sit in there BURROW most of the time and I dont see how a pede can live longer with more stress.* But you may be right sense I dont have experience with bark, that being said I will never ever use bark or woodchips for ANY invert I own. Not to mention all the other downsides to wood. *Mold being a big one*.


In a tank with proper ventilation and exposure to light (occasionally) the tank and substrate would not succumb to mould from my experience. 

Phark has sent me pictures of his pede in the substrate, maybe you could take some more pictures of the side view of the tank and post them to prove that they're buried? Or even better, a video of them burying themslves.




cjm1991 said:


> Well I felt this way at first too, but he/she is a very good eater and never denys food. Ive even hand fed it a large cricket  I also have some pretty mean T's that attack me as soon as the lids off, cobalt blues and my baboons. But also forums like these are alot more intertaining than others by far so in this particular case, Phark was the chosen way you could say that created it. BTW I am not 1 bit sorry for what ive said to you Phark, only sorry that your not taking good advice.


Take advice too - let him see how long his pedes last in Jungle Earth before syaing anything else. You've said time and time again that you're busy and have better things to do and you're done with this thread, so why bother? Honestly you could easily avoid this thread.



Phark said:


> You obviously don't see it. You're supposed to show me *evidence* that using bark as a substrate will cause detriment to a centipede, not hypotheses.
> 
> On a side note, Jungle Earth (which is the "bark" I'm using) is light and un-compacted, unlike soil. In other words, my centipedes easily and readily wind through the relatively large gaps in between the pieces of bark. In short, their burrows have already been created naturally because the gaps ensure that there's actually a series of unorthodox "tunnels" in the substrate. Unconventional, but it works for them.
> 
> You and your soil-advocating friends simply cannot accept the fact that alternatives are sometimes just as effective as the norm.



As long as its dark and moist its more than enough for them. 

cjm1991 - Why don't you try Jungle Earth and a pede to see if they do the same? Have you felt this stuff? Its really light and not very rough as well.


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## cjm1991 (Jun 14, 2008)

Well for the SECOND time. I did avoid this thread and made it extremely clear I was finished with this thread, and ill tell you for the SECOND time he started trying to PM me because he felt he had more to say, even though I was at work. And if your pet store carried eco-earth you would use it on all your inverts im sure. By the way I work at petco and they carry multiple substrates so if you dont have a petsmart or petco near you sorry you live in the country. He could have simply said ill tell my chances with my bark and ended it there, but he is INCAPABLE  of handling it like an adult (maybe thats why I called him a kid) and had a fit that I didnt give him a 100% positive response. Everyone has the right to give their opinions on here and I gave him mine. I also do my school work online so im on the comp alot of the time also so AB is a click away just minimized. He needs to grow up and learn how to except advice or to just ignore it. Please tell me how im wrong, dont worry ill wait.:clap:

Quote:
Originally Posted by cjm1991  
So im done with this thread. 

Please tell me how your point is superior to mine. Your point was that centipedes cannot burrow in bark. I proved you wrong with my pics. So who lost the argument here? You're saying you're done with this thread only because you're trying to avoid humiliation.


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## cjm1991 (Jun 14, 2008)

What said:


> I hate to do this but I was linked to this post by another member of the site and felt the need to add a little something.
> 
> 
> Soo, it is ok for you not to take advice but he has to? Pot calling the kettle black much?
> ...


I did take your advice if you remember and excepted I was wrong, but that whole ordeal was out of my control, he has a choice and can do something about it. Also your remark insulted my intellegence so you got flammed on by multiple people for your so called advice. Your fault I believe.


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## PompeyKilla (Jun 14, 2008)

Hi, would you consider mixing the substrates? Chips on top, soil below. Maybe half of the enclosure chips, half soil. Then you could let your pedes decide what's better for them...


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## Rydog (Jun 14, 2008)

agreed.......


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## cjm1991 (Jun 14, 2008)

Thats a good idea.


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## GartenSpinnen (Jun 14, 2008)

I have used bark successfully in pede setups, especially Scolopendra subspinipes . It is a good idea to mix it with soil, peat, or coco fiber however, so that they can properly burrow. The only bad thing about bark is it molds easier when kept at the high humidity levels that these pedes require. It also seems to attract mites, which can cause major problems. Sure they live around rotten bark, but as you can see your bark is not rotten or rotting by any means. Will this kill your pedes? More than likely no. Is it THAT big of a deal that everyone has to have a hissy fit about it? No probably not. I rather see you keeping your pedes on bark ANY day instead of something like dry sand. 

ANYWAYS...

Nice centipedes, i really like the colors and the fact that you CAN keep these communally. Anybody that thinks you cant keep this communally, do a search on asian centipede farms. Granted occasionally you might loose one here and there, over all they should live fine together if given enough space, food, hides, and other basic requirements that keeping any creatures communally would need. 

Cheers


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## Everyexcuse4me (Jun 14, 2008)

cjm1991 said:


> Well for the SECOND time. I did avoid this thread and made it extremely clear I was finished with this thread, and ill tell you for the SECOND time he started trying to PM me because he felt he had more to say, even though I was at work. And if your pet store carried eco-earth you would use it on all your inverts im sure. By the way I work at petco and they carry multiple substrates so if you dont have a petsmart or petco near you sorry you live in the country. He could have simply said ill tell my chances with my bark and ended it there, but he is INCAPABLE  of handling it like an adult (maybe thats why I called him a kid) and had a fit that I didnt give him a *100% positive response.* Everyone has the right to give their opinions on here and I gave him mine. I also do my school work online so im on the comp alot of the time also so AB is a click away just minimized. He needs to grow up and learn how to except advice or to just ignore it. Please tell me how im wrong, dont worry ill wait.:clap:
> 
> 
> Quote:
> ...



Tell you honestly, you didn't have to come back to thread after the PM. Well if i had a choice I'd buy both bark and soil to try, and as said, mix. Maybe someone could buy some soil, put a pede in the tank with half soil and half bark with each at one end of the tank and yeah, see which one they bury in. It has to be tried on several pedes though.

Your response was not even 10% positive when all he wanted was you to say maybe "Great looking pedes but i think they'll do better individually incase of cannablism and i think its best for the bark to be replaced by some soil" or something. I'd personally would have preferred that kind of response, and who wants a hostile response anyway?

Your 'advice' was that pede's can't burrow in bark and will die quickly of stress, and he said that they won't. He showed that the 1st picture the pede was semi-buried. I mean, yeah that's a good enough explaination of the pede burying, so why don't you let him be? Phark could've avoided using words like "avoid humiliation" but I too wouldn't have taken your 'advice' from the way you put it at first.

You know what, this thread is going nowhere. Maybe start a new thread with new pics or just forget it all.


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## Draiman (Jun 15, 2008)

cjm1991 said:


> Well for the SECOND time. I did avoid this thread and made it extremely clear I was finished with this thread, and ill tell you for the SECOND time he started trying to PM me because he felt he had more to say, even though I was at work. And if your pet store carried eco-earth you would use it on all your inverts im sure. By the way I work at petco and they carry multiple substrates so if you dont have a petsmart or petco near you sorry you live in the country. He could have simply said ill tell my chances with my bark and ended it there, but he is INCAPABLE  of handling it like an adult (maybe thats why I called him a kid) and had a fit that I didnt give him a 100% positive response. Everyone has the right to give their opinions on here and I gave him mine. I also do my school work online so im on the comp alot of the time also so AB is a click away just minimized. He needs to grow up and learn how to except advice or to just ignore it. Please tell me how im wrong, dont worry ill wait.:clap:


I'm waiting for you to do a couple of things.

1) Show me evidence that I insulted Americans' knowledge of the hobby (which is what YOU *accused* me of)

2) Show me evidence that using bark as a substrate for centipedes is detrimental to their long-term well-being (which is the point you're trying to push)

I'm not going to forget about this thread unless/until this clown acknowledges that he'd slandered me. CJM, I'm waiting.


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## cjm1991 (Jun 15, 2008)

Keep on crying more. Im done with this thread I don't need to prove my point I did it fine with words along with the people who back me up.


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## Draiman (Jun 15, 2008)

cjm1991 said:


> Keep on crying more. Im done with this thread I don't need to prove my point I did it fine with words along with the people who back me up.


Then you're obviously not man enough to admit what you did. I've realised that all you can do is insult and slander. Bravo. You're going to succeed in life.

The bottomline is, I may be a kid, but you're no man either.


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## Mister Internet (Jun 15, 2008)

cjm1991... yes, sites are for learning.  You are acting like a complete child, and absolutely NOT helping people learn with the way you're presenting your "advice".  I would suggest you don't post anymore until you figure out how to actually act 17.

Phark... be a little gracious.  It seems you're fairly new to the hobby, and there are people here who have forgotten more about centipedes than I will ever know... and I know quite a bit.  If you don't want to take the advice offered you, just ignore it.  Things will be less stressful if you do.  When you make a big production about ignoring perfectly good advice, people like cjm can't help themselves, so just do us all a favor next time and smile and nod.

everyone else... better luck next time.

/THREAD

-MrI


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