# Woman killed by pet black mamba



## Kaimetsu (Jun 19, 2011)

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2011/06/17/2011-06-17_snake_eyed_in_womans_death.html

This isnt far from where i live.  I just hope the snakes will be well taken care of.  I'd like to know more details about this incident.  Apparently they had 56 hots, i guess if one of them was gonna end up biting their owner it was likely to be a mamba.  Don't read the comments on that article if you value your sanity, i nearly had an aneurism when i read one of them.

EDIT: This is the comment that nearly gave me an aneurism, the ignorance of some people just staggers my mind.

"Let me come in there and kill them I'd be glad to do it! Come on all your NYC wildlife experts tell me what role snakes now play in our ecosystem? None would be the answer NONE!

The have a list on line called the Darwin List and I'm sure this woman and her "man" if you could call him that will now be on it! Same goes for the idiots who keep giant snakes with little kids in the house then are shocked to find their babies smothered or swallowed by these monstrous reptiles!"

Sometimes i forget that people this stupid exist, and then i accidently read the comments on a news article or youtube video and i lose faith in humanity all over again.  The number of things wrong with this person stagger my mind.  I don't even... my words fail me... UGH!


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## Galapoheros (Jun 19, 2011)

What's odd about the report and other ones like it is that when somebody obviously ODs on drugs, the media says something like, "Cause of death is not known at this time and is pending autopsy...".  But in a case like this, where most cops wouldn't be familiar with snake bites anyway, they say it was probably a snake.  She could have been shooting up heroin or something like it and died of OD.  It sounds like enviro political propaganda.  If they find out the woman ODd instead of died from snake bite, they will be very quiet about "that" news, hiding it in the back of a newspaper on the last page, something like that.  Seems that if she was bitten she would have called 911 or at least her bf, just another odd thing.  Just look at the comments below the story, the person that wrote the article did their job in stirring people up.  But I must say that I'm not for keeping Black Mambas either and I think permits are a good idea because some people are simply irresponsible, trying to sneak things like this in apartments with close neighbors.


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## Kaimetsu (Jun 19, 2011)

Galapoheros said:


> What's odd about the report and other ones like it is that when somebody obviously ODs on drugs, the media says something like, "Cause of death is not known at this time and is pending autopsy...".  But in a case like this, where most cops wouldn't be familiar with snake bites anyway, they say it was probably a snake.  She could have been shooting up heroin or something like it and died of OD.  It sounds like enviro political propaganda.  If they find out the woman ODd instead of died from snake bite, they will be very quiet about "that" news, hiding it in the back of a newspaper on the last page, something like that.  Seems that if she was bitten she would have called 911 or at least her bf, just another odd thing.  Just look at the comments below the story, the person that wrote the article did their job in stirring people up.  But I must say that I'm not for keeping Black Mambas either and I think permits are a good idea because some people are simply irresponsible, trying to sneak things like this in apartments with close neighbors.


Yup one of the things horribly wrong with the idiot i quoted, aside from the complete ignorance of ecology and his desire to murder animals, is his claim that babies have been "smothered or swallowed" HAHAHA! by large pet snakes.  Most likely his nonsense is based in part on the case in florida with the 3 year old that died, the pet burmese python was blamed for apparently strangling the baby, all actual evidence suggests one of the parents strangled the baby and blamed it on the snake, but we'll never hear that in the news.

Fewer than ten people have been killed by large pet snakes since 1980, approximately 40 people are killed by dogs every year.

Hot snakes are a whole other issue from large constrictors, i agree that some kind of permit should be needed to keep a black mamba.  That said there are a few venomous snakes I would love to own if i had the money and experience, I'm talking like years of experience handling fast aggressive nonvenomous snakes first.  Eyelash pit vipers and gaboon vipers are both beautiful animals.


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## pitbulllady (Jun 20, 2011)

This incident has come up on many forums, some not even relating to animals.  Something is very "fishy" about the whole thing, just like with the toddler that allegedly got killed by the Burm down in FL a couple of years ago and the guy who was supposedly "strangled" by a Boa in Nebraska last year.  If you know snakes, you know the signs of a real snake bite or constriction, and there's a lot of things in this case that just don't add up.  The lack of a 911 call by the victim, for one thing; even a Mamba bite doesn't kill THAT fast that you can't get to a phone.  The bf said he just came home and found the woman lying in bed, dead.  If it was a snake bite that killed her, then it's either a case of suicide or murder and the bf isn't being straight-up about what happened.  As I've said before, given the hate/fear of snakes and the way people react to any news about them, and the ignorance about them, it would be fairly easy to murder someone by strangulation, at least, and successfully blame it on a large constrictor snake if you had one available.  While snake owners would no doubt see plenty of holes in the snake theory, most authorities wouldn't question the COD at all.  At least the cops in this latest case have stated that they aren't ruling out foul play at this point, so there must be some things that they find strange, too.

pitbulllady


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## The Snark (Jun 20, 2011)

Re: pitbullady. Agree with reservations. Two ways to look at it. Let's let the cynic go first.
-Keeping that many hots proves she was nuts and might just forget to call emergency services.

On the other foot, assuming she had a clue she would have known a mamba bite often means death without antivenin and she had to have been incapacitated in some way other than the bite to have not called, or the cause of death wasn't the mamba.

(Correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't the venom of the mamba extra fast in killing due to some obscure properties? Regardless, she would have made calls for help)

PS Re: Kaimetsu: "Sometimes i forget that people this stupid exist, and then i accidently read the comments on a news article or youtube video and i lose faith in humanity all over again. The number of things wrong with this person stagger my mind. I don't even... my words fail me... UGH!"
Reactions to pure sensationalism media BS from a person who is obviously bare naked clueless and has a horribly twisted sense of morality and ethical conduct. In a real world, when people see a car or motorcycle they should get all freaked out. (Way over 1 million deaths or injuries from every year) and when they see an animal doing it's normal thing they should be wide eyed with wonder, awe, appreciation, or sensible concern if it is known to be dangerous. IE "He couldn't get a clue if it was clue mating season, he was in a field of horny clues, he smeared clue musk all over his body and did the clue mating dance."


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## rm90 (Jun 20, 2011)

Live by the sword, die by the sword! She must have known one day her life would end in such a fashion. With that being said, it is sad to see someone lose a life no matter the way as to how it occured.


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## pitbulllady (Jun 20, 2011)

The Snark said:


> Re: pitbullady. Agree with reservations. Two ways to look at it. Let's let the cynic go first.
> -Keeping that many hots proves she was nuts and might just forget to call emergency services.
> 
> On the other foot, assuming she had a clue she would have known a mamba bite often means death without antivenin and she had to have been incapacitated in some way other than the bite to have not called, or the cause of death wasn't the mamba.
> ...


The article said that she had 75 SNAKES, but did not mention how many were "hots".  She probably had non-vens, too.  Mamba venom can be fast-acting, but generally takes about an hour to produce coma and death, and that is still time to call 911.  It is possible to keep a victim alive on a ventilator until antivenin arrives(I doubt most hospitals in NY would stock Mamba antivenin), as this is protocol in South Africa, where Mamba bites are more common.  The bf said he found her lying in bed, which meant that she either intended to take her own life by means of snake bite("Cleopatra Syndrome"), or assumed that she was a goner anyway after the bite and made no effort to seek help(unlikely), or, there was indeed foul play involved.

You are so right about people's reactions to things like this, though, and how that reaction is so out of proportion to the actual threat.  In the same week that the toddler in FL was allegedly killed by the Burmese Python, eight people drowned here in SC in backyard swimming pools, six of them children.  *EIGHT* people, ONE week, ONE state, all dead because of something that many people, especially here in the South, have in their yards and think nothing of.  The two adults who drowned both died trying to save children who were drowning.  One of those kids died in one of those little plastic kiddie wading pools, and yet, no one gets up in arms over deaths like that.  No one demands laws banning backyard swimming pools or threatens people who have them, believing such people are a menace to society.

pitbulllady


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## The Snark (Jun 20, 2011)

Re: pitbullady. Amazing how disassociated people are with the world around them, isn't it? Speaking as a paramedic, my pet peeves are vehicles and alcohol.

As for keeping something like a mamba or any other lethal animal, it is exactly the same as keeping a loaded gun. People's reactions to screw ups with it should be the same as well: s/he had an accident. Neither gun nor mamba could be called malevolent and both would be safe if a person had not placed themselves in harms way.

For that matter, keeping hots is exactly the same as having a loaded gun: it is always dangerous. Even unloaded, the second that you take your eyes off that gun it magically reloads itself. Or, just because you were able to do X with/around a hot doesn't mean the next time you won't get zapped. Making assumptions in a perilous situation that you have placed yourself in is right up with the best on the stupid moves list.


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## ZergFront (Jun 20, 2011)

Kaimetsu said:


> Yup one of the things horribly wrong with the idiot i quoted, aside from the complete ignorance of ecology and his desire to murder animals, is his claim that babies have been "smothered or swallowed" HAHAHA! by large pet snakes.  Most likely his nonsense is based in part on the case in florida with the 3 year old that died, the pet burmese python was blamed for apparently strangling the baby, all actual evidence suggests one of the parents strangled the baby and blamed it on the snake, but we'll never hear that in the news.


 Tee parents are to blame but more on negligence. What didn't make most news stations was that the snake cage was covered with a towel and not a proper lid. All of you snake keepers here would know what a piece of cake that would be for a python to slip through.


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## The Snark (Jun 20, 2011)

ZergFront said:


> Tee parents are to blame but more on negligence. What didn't make most news stations was that the snake cage was covered with a towel and not a proper lid. All of you snake keepers here would know what a piece of cake that would be for a python to slip through.


In keeping with numbskull modern day convenience mentality, you can expect to see snake resistant towels in your local Walllmart and Targit stores soon.


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## kevin91172 (Jun 26, 2011)

"leta Stacey, 56, was found dead Tuesday by her boyfriend who kept 75 snakes - 56 poisonous - in their Putnam Lake home."

On a lighter note I agree to disagree none of them were poisonous


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## myrmecophile (Jun 26, 2011)

Not a poisonous snake in the bunch, you could eatthem all day.


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## LeilaNami (Jun 27, 2011)

The Snark said:


> Re: pitbullady. Agree with reservations. Two ways to look at it. Let's let the cynic go first.
> -Keeping that many hots proves she was nuts and might just forget to call emergency services.


Oh really now?  I know of people that keep well over that and are very good at what they do.  Just because you can't or don't feel comfortable doing so, don't knock someone who can handle caring for that many snakes. 

On another note, if she were a drug user, she might have been high while trying to care for her hots.  Other than that, I would think it was either a murder, suicide (unlikely if she knows what mamba venom does), or a coverup (as in making her appear to die a different way).  Sad fact is though, they're not going to be delving deep into any foul play investigation because she's allegedly a drug user and they're content with blaming a snake.


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## patrick86 (Jun 27, 2011)

pitbulllady said:


> This incident has come up on many forums, some not even relating to animals.  Something is very "fishy" about the whole thing, just like with the toddler that allegedly got killed by the Burm down in FL a couple of years ago *and the guy who was supposedly "strangled" by a Boa in Nebraska last year*.  If you know snakes, you know the signs of a real snake bite or constriction, and there's a lot of things in this case that just don't add up.  The lack of a 911 call by the victim, for one thing; even a Mamba bite doesn't kill THAT fast that you can't get to a phone.  The bf said he just came home and found the woman lying in bed, dead.  If it was a snake bite that killed her, then it's either a case of suicide or murder and the bf isn't being straight-up about what happened.  As I've said before, given the hate/fear of snakes and the way people react to any news about them, and the ignorance about them, it would be fairly easy to murder someone by strangulation, at least, and successfully blame it on a large constrictor snake if you had one available.  While snake owners would no doubt see plenty of holes in the snake theory, most authorities wouldn't question the COD at all.  At least the cops in this latest case have stated that they aren't ruling out foul play at this point, so there must be some things that they find strange, too.
> 
> pitbulllady



The guy getting killed by his boa is true. http://www.kptm.com/global/story.asp?s=12625572

He didn't live very far from me.

Just because you didn't see it happen doesn't mean it isn't true.


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## Comatose (Jun 27, 2011)

Maybe not, but that doesn't mean the media doesn't blow these things out of proportion and terrify people into supporting bans, or in the case of wild animals, mass killings (ie, sharks, snakes, wolves). In most, if not all of these cases, the victim is a willing participant who chose to own a dangerous animal, or in fewer cases the child of someone who did. In either case the owner should have to take responsibility for their actions, not other more responsible keepers. 

Does anyone know of a case where a reptile (or any venomous animal) escaped and killed someone in the general public?


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## Verneph (Jun 27, 2011)

Comatose said:


> Does anyone know of a case where a reptile (or any venomous animal) escaped and killed someone in the general public?


The closest case I know of off-hand is a case where a pet python got out and ate a neighbor's Chihuahua.  That count?  

In all seriousness though, this is just fear mongering.   Oh, and NY Daily News:  They're venomous, not poisonous.  I don't think this man should have been illegally containing so many snakes, but this is hardly the snake's fault.  The article talks as if the snake got out of its pen and savagely stalked this woman just to inflict murderous wrath upon her.  It's absurd.  

One comment really got to me:



> Incidentally, the Black Mambo has enough venom at any given time to deliver a lethal dose to 5 or 6 adult humans....there are recorded cases of them killing entire households in Africa.


Really?  That's funny, because after doing some digging I discovered the average 'bites per year' for the Black Mamba.  The highest estimation puts this snake's 'bites per year' quota at a frightening...three.  

Truly a threat to us all.  I'm sure there's one stalking an innocent household as we speak.


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## Comatose (Jun 27, 2011)

That statistic raised my eyebrow as well... sounds like something from Kill Bill volume 2. 

The total number of people killed by animals every year, not counting those killed by disease carrying critters, has to be somewhere between the number killed by falling coconuts and toaster ovens. We really do let fear get the best of us, don't we?


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## groovyspider (Jun 27, 2011)

ya know one thing ive learned from keepin venomous is you have to be smarter than them you gotta make sure there is enough room so you can safly move around without being in reach of them.


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## LeilaNami (Jun 27, 2011)

Comatose said:


> That statistic raised my eyebrow as well... sounds like something from Kill Bill volume 2.
> 
> The total number of people killed by animals every year, not counting those killed by disease carrying critters, has to be somewhere between the number killed by falling coconuts and toaster ovens. We really do let fear get the best of us, don't we?


To be exact, the number of people killed by exotics each year is 0.4  Deaths by domestic animals is several times higher.


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## Comatose (Jun 28, 2011)

Any time someone suggests banning something dangerous, remind them that booze kills _at least_ 70,000 people every year, and destroys god knows how many other lives. Then remind them what happened when we tried banning that.


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## pitbulllady (Jun 28, 2011)

Comatose said:


> Any time someone suggests banning something dangerous, remind them that booze kills _at least_ 70,000 people every year, and destroys god knows how many other lives. Then remind them what happened when we tried banning that.


Our government suffers from extreme memory loss when it comes to our own history.  They completely fail to recall or take into account the mistakes of the past and continue to do the same things over and over again, while expecting different and better results.  Wait...isn't that the definition of INSANITY?

pitbulllady


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## kevin91172 (Jun 30, 2011)

I keep some hots and some very hots,We have portal call here,do not do it alone,gas in cars,what your handling,where is antivenom,need breathing machine,make sure snake is secure after bite or shoot it with shoot gun in corner of hot room,and do not make it public for my dumba@@ mistake and hurt others in the life/hobby


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## Tarantel (Jul 9, 2011)

> "Let me come in there and kill them I'd be glad to do it! Come on all your NYC wildlife experts tell me what role snakes now play in our ecosystem? None would be the answer NONE!
> 
> The have a list on line called the Darwin List and I'm sure this woman and her "man" if you could call him that will now be on it! Same goes for the idiots who keep giant snakes with little kids in the house then are shocked to find their babies smothered or swallowed by these monstrous reptiles!"


I don't like this guy. I wish people weren't so prejudiced against snakes. Strange that there are no news story's about dogs killing people, because dogs aren't long and scaly.


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## BQC123 (Jul 9, 2011)

Tarantel said:


> I don't like this guy. I wish people weren't so prejudiced against snakes. Strange that there are no news story's about dogs killing people, because dogs aren't long and scaly.


Last time I looked the most deaths, in the US, from animals were:
1. Bees
2. Deer (Mostly due to auto accidents)
3. Dogs
4. Horses


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## BobGrill (Jul 9, 2011)

Kaimetsu said:


> http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2011/06/17/2011-06-17_snake_eyed_in_womans_death.html
> 
> 
> EDIT: This is the comment that nearly gave me an aneurism, the ignorance of some people just staggers my mind.
> ...


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