# possible trapdoor spider find in Virginia



## Ambly (Jul 23, 2013)

Hey All,
   I've been pretty interested in trapdoor spiders.  I keep Gorgyrella "black" sp. and Cyclocosmia torreya.  I have been most interested in finding trapdoors in the wild to make some observations and answer some questions, mostly about their dispersal.

   I have not done extensive field searching, but a good deal of reading and asking folks.  I work for an archaeological firm doing GIS and, while out GPSing stuff, I am always searching for herps and now trapdoor spiders.

   Thursday, July 18th, 2013 I was out GPSing in Spotsylvania County, VA and noticed a hole, slightly larger than a quarter, that was very cleanly cut.  I regret not photographing the actual hole with the GPS - I did not have my phone or camera with me.  The hole was essentially on a small patch of dried moss.  The area in front of the hole looked to be fairly modified.  I did notice a very, very small possibly wolf spider at the entrance - very possibly having taken cover from me at the entrance of the hole.  Though there was no lid, I moved substrate around to find only one other incomplete hole with a silken sheath loosely laid inside.  I have attached pictures of the sheath I found, which I brought back to my office.  

   I found no actual trapdoor spiders, no trap doors, but a few other holes.  I did find one heavily silken tunnel, large and complete, coming from the ground into some low lying grass.  Definitely not a funnel web but possible a very large wolf spider.  I have never seen holes or tunnels like this.  I am from NJ and most of my experience in the field in VA has been in the mountains, possibly explaining why I have never seen tunnels of this kind nor wolf spiders large enough to occupy a tunnel of that kind.

   Any thoughts on what the attached may be?  I did take a GPS point for the location of the hole and I hope to go check it out if the land owner complies.

Environmental conditions:  east facing slope, predominantly pine needle ground cover with some oak and willow oak leaves, clay soil.  The tunnel was near the base of a tree on a mossy patch.












Sean


----------



## Ambly (Jul 24, 2013)

would a wolf spider build anything of this nature or is this some other invert's creation?  When removing the pen, it did withdraw a good deal of silk that was fairly tacky.


----------



## Ciphor (Jul 24, 2013)

I would be lying if I said I knew of every invert that had silk glands and lined a burrow with them. Definitely not a wolf spider though. Some do burrow, but they do not line it heavily with silk like this. If it was an arachnid, it would most definitely be a trap door of some type.


----------



## tonypace2009 (Jul 24, 2013)

Looking for trapdoor spiders? They will seem to follow creek beds just above flood plane slightly sloping ground look for areas  that open up with short growing ground cover especially areas that turn into grassy fields. Also look for flowering trees and      shrubs. They are good about building burrows by future food sources especially by colonies of carpenter ants or termites.
Not only are they great engineers but they really plan ahead. Mother spider knows the babies will only disperse a short           distance away and she plans for there future meals. Hope this helps its how I find them. Good hunting

Reactions: Award 1


----------



## Ambly (Jul 25, 2013)

All good information.  It definitely was in a creek bed just above flood plane on slightly sloping ground.  I wonder how abundant they are and what their distribution in the state is like.  Also how habitat specific they are... do they generally cover the state, like orbweavers, and can be found given the right general habitat requirements.  Or are they in pockets throughout the state.  Thanks for the info, this will be fun for me


----------



## Ambly (Jul 25, 2013)

@tonypace2009 - looks like I found em!  A coworker described a spider to me that sounded as if she had seen an adult male trapdoor spider wandering.  She is an avid outdoorsman, so I trust her description.  I searched near some ant hills and found only very tiny burrows, a few with a complete lid.  Definite holes of spiderlings - much like that of my small Cyclocosmia.  Almost all the holes were found near moss clumps.  I did not see any spiders though, so I will attempt digging one up if I find they are abundant.


----------



## tonypace2009 (Jul 25, 2013)

Ambly said:


> All good information.  It definitely was in a creek bed just above flood plane on slightly sloping ground.  I wonder how abundant they are and what their distribution in the state is like.  Also how habitat specific they are... do they generally cover the state, like orbweavers, and can be found given the right general habitat requirements.  Or are they in pockets throughout the state.  Thanks for the info, this will be fun for me


I think they have been along old rivers for centuries and the need for shorter foliage pushed them further down and away from rivers. There are pockets of them in strange areas like neighborhoods and business. I think if we were to look back in history
For old rivers lakes and even old farm land that at one time or another used water from old rivers creeks and even ponds
To water crops we could then maby pattern the distribution of the trap door spiders. After all at some point back in time a
Lot of these neighborhoods were old crop fields. I think we assume these spiders move into these areas but what if they have 
Always lived here and we are just now noticing them.


----------



## Ambly (Jul 25, 2013)

Indeed.  These are the kinda thoughts running through my head as well...    Either way - I found a few more small silken tunnels running through a layer of pine needles.  Under was a several meter long horizontal tunnel that very well may have been unrelated.  I put my trowel under the pine layer and found this guy, attached, running through the loose silken tube as a purseweb would when disturbed.  It does not match any Ummidia sling images I have seen, but there are very few.  Might this little guy be a trapdoor?  Whether this is a trapdoor or not, the holes I found surely seem to be.


----------



## Ambly (Jul 26, 2013)

Whatever it is, by morning it had attached some leaf fragments together, under which it hid.


----------



## tonypace2009 (Jul 26, 2013)

Ambly said:


> Indeed.  These are the kinda thoughts running through my head as well...    Either way - I found a few more small silken tunnels running through a layer of pine needles.  Under was a several meter long horizontal tunnel that very well may have been unrelated.  I put my trowel under the pine layer and found this guy, attached, running through the loose silken tube as a purseweb would when disturbed.  It does not match any Ummidia sling images I have seen, but there are very few.  Might this little guy be a trapdoor?  Whether this is a trapdoor or not, the holes I found surely seem to be.
> 
> View attachment 119098


The picture is to dark and a view of the front head region will help identify the spider . From this view the head does not look.    like a trapdoor spider  it's hard to tell from this angle. Even 2nd instar slings look like miniature versions of the adults.
Did these web burrows go down into the ground or were they just under the surface of the ground?


----------



## Ambly (Jul 26, 2013)

the first tunnels I found were directly into the ground, just covered by a lid.  Some were holes covered by a silk/vegetation mat fit with a neat hole and lid.  I found this spider's lidless hole - it was going through a pine needle layer and I honestly don't know if it went into the ground.  I agree, it does not look like Ummidia or any of the Sphodros pursewebs - which I had just read literature stating Sphodros are more cosmopolitan than restricted to the south east.


----------



## tonypace2009 (Jul 26, 2013)

*Trapdoor spider hole*

This is a trap door spider hole. My large female trapdoor came out of this hole. I also have more            pictures on my computer Ill have to find them and download them to my phone. I do not have Internet
Right now. I would concentrate on the holes that have lids. I might be wrong but the other holes could
Be funnel web spider burrows. I do not know there proper names.


----------



## Ciphor (Jul 26, 2013)

Ambly said:


> Indeed.  These are the kinda thoughts running through my head as well...    Either way - I found a few more small silken tunnels running through a layer of pine needles.  Under was a several meter long horizontal tunnel that very well may have been unrelated.  I put my trowel under the pine layer and found this guy, attached, running through the loose silken tube as a purseweb would when disturbed.  It does not match any Ummidia sling images I have seen, but there are very few.  Might this little guy be a trapdoor?  Whether this is a trapdoor or not, the holes I found surely seem to be.
> 
> View attachment 119098


This is not a spider in the infra-order Mygalomorphae (trapdoors, purse-webs, tarantulas, etc.)

Would need a much better picture but I suspect a ground spider (Gnaphosidae).

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Ambly (Jul 28, 2013)

Ciphor, you are correct.  Gnaphosidae indeed.  I do believe I was in trapdoor territory though.  I found it in a pretty lengthy silken retreat which I now know are common of Gnaphosidae.  

I'll keep looking...


----------



## Ambly (Jul 29, 2013)

Any thoughts on the pictures I originally attached?  The silken sheath I found?


----------



## Ambly (Aug 2, 2013)

Alright, I did find em this time... not Gnaphosidae.  Today, leaving work, I decided I would drive especially close to the curb and look.  I spotted a hole, got out of my car, and sure enough it was a trapdoor tunnel with the door torn off, besides it.  It looked to be abandoned.  A curious coworker and I dug it up almost like a root-ball and hand broke the dirt away - a good time to work in an archaeology office, as the decent trowels really made it easier round 2.  What we found was an approximately 3" deep tube with nothing in it other than an ant that probably stumbled in and a pupa - looked like a roach ootheca but possibly wasp?  Unbelievably, a penny was long pressed into the ground directly above the hole - you can see it and the indent it came from.

  My coworker and I scoured the area for 45 minutes and finally I uncovered a hole in an area we visually searched - 3 to 5" from the original hole.  The lid looked fresh, but the tube brown and worn (unlike tonypace's photo).  Using the trowels, we broke the small roots around and dug it up to discover the spider in the pictures attached.  Enjoy.  

I am excited to observe the individual in both captive and in the wild.  I plan to locate another burrow and monitor it and the location over my duration at this job.

Environmental conditions:
Location:  In an office park, Glen Allen, Virginia.
Habitat:  Mildly sloping area.  Clear area above curb, directly below pine needle layer.  Both holes located under a street lamp - possible source of food, possibly random.  Sandy clay, well drained.

I'm interested to see where else they are to get an idea on how habitat specific they are and answer some other questions.


----------



## Ambly (Aug 2, 2013)

Got the best pictures I could.  Anyone have any advice on species identification or know of any literature on the subject?

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## tonypace2009 (Aug 3, 2013)

Nice glad you found one. Was there any drainage ditches around? Was there any foliage in the area? The street light sounds     like these spiders are very adaptable. All pieces of the puzzle.


----------



## Ambly (Aug 4, 2013)

There are drainage ditches around, like most office parks, because of all the runoff//impervious surface but the spider was not found on any bank that lead to water.  Instead, it was at the bottom of a bank leading to curb/parking lot asphalt.  In the first picture, you can see they are in an area where the pine needle mass seems to break off and fail to accumulate.  It looks like an erosion prone area that is held together by stringy roots.  The whole office park seems to be a good place for attracting invert prey.  

There were loblolly pines and willow oaks in the patchy overstory, essentially a small forest buffer obstructing the view of our office park to the hotel atop the hill, and sparse undergrowth due to the pines.  Below this hill is where I found the spiders.  I suspect they are in other cleared out areas, not just near the pines, but we will see.


----------



## Ambly (Aug 4, 2013)

any takers on a species ID or anyone able to lead me in the right direction?


----------



## kellakk (Aug 5, 2013)

Trapdoor spiders are an understudied group. The best guess I can make for this individual is Ummidia sp., since an advanced search of bugguide.net shows only Ummidia in your area.


----------



## Ambly (Aug 5, 2013)

I agree, pretty sure some Ummidia species.  Maybe I'll be able to track down an expert.  I know a few university's professors are working with them.  Definitely understudied, which is sad because there is so much reading I want to do.


----------



## Ciphor (Aug 5, 2013)

It is definitely _Ummidia sp._ as your images captured the "saddle-like depression" on the tibia of leg pair lll which I can spot even from a dorsal image like these. 

Here is a better angle of the depression. http://bugguide.net/node/view/25330

Which species would require a lot of close up/detailed shots of specific anatomical features depending on which species you speculate it is. Spiders in the _Ummidia_ genus are virtually identical to the naked eye.


----------



## Ambly (Aug 6, 2013)

I figured that was the case - virtually identical to the naked eye.  I intended to take good photos but my camera had been borrowed by a coworker.  Good camera or not, I imagine the shots necessary could be difficult to take.  

Is there a reason more people do not keep Ummidia sp. versus those common in the trade?


----------



## Ciphor (Aug 6, 2013)

Ambly said:


> I figured that was the case - virtually identical to the naked eye.  I intended to take good photos but my camera had been borrowed by a coworker.  Good camera or not, I imagine the shots necessary could be difficult to take.
> 
> Is there a reason more people do not keep Ummidia sp. versus those common in the trade?


Most people who desire trapdoors are not fortunate enough to have time to search for them, or have the luck to stumble across one. Much easier to buy an African trapdoor from a reputable dealer.


----------



## cacoseraph (Aug 7, 2013)

VA has some other types of mygalomorphs, too.  The Sphodros are probably the neatest. 

http://scabies.myfreeforum.org/about3754.html


----------



## Ambly (Aug 7, 2013)

ah haven't seen much literature or accounts of the others here in VA, thanks!  I'll have to do some research and see where they can be found.  I keep Sphodros abboti, very cool creatures.  I'd love to find Antrodiaetus...

Ignoring the original picture, the silken sheathe, this tube-like structure is VERY similar to what I saw out in the woods and described in the OP.  http://eol.org/data_objects/24853994, Antrodiaetus burrow.  
I figured they could have been from wolf spiders - they were very large, opening nearly a silver dollar, and heavily silken.  One came up through 6" tall grass, well constructed and webbed, one from mosses.  I figure they may still be from wolf spiders.  I will have to go back if possible.  I found a small structure, constructed of grasses, coming from a hole that yielded a small burrowing wolf spider - very beautiful.  I will post pictures of them.  

I also found a young trapdoor burrow which I will monitor through the year - I will also post pictures of this.  Awesome to see how cryptic its door is.


----------



## Ambly (Sep 6, 2013)

Found another trapdoor in the same location on Tuesday.  I was wondering if they will build through the pine mass and first handful I lifted contained a trapdoor.  I opened the lid and found that it was home, but had webbed up a half inch down the hole...   The silken tube was not in the soil much if at all and, the next day, the entire structure was gone.  Predation???  I was shocked to see it was gone.  It looked as though it wasn't a great spot, so I am not surprised if the spider decided to change location, but the actual silken structure missing?

The one I have been monitoring has since added much to the lid and widened its hole.  Very fun to watch over time.


----------



## Deroplatys (Sep 6, 2013)

Anyone else accidentally read the title as "Possible trapped spider in Vagina"?


----------



## The Snark (Sep 6, 2013)

Deroplatys said:


> Anyone else accidentally read the title as "Possible trapped spider in Vagina"?


Brain fart? Freudian slop? Been digging in the dirt too long? Can we get you a nice glass of warm milk?


----------



## Loptylop (Sep 6, 2013)

omg now i wanna go hunting for trapdoors, i also found holes near a pine needle tree while walking my dog


----------



## Papi (Aug 20, 2016)

Ambly said:


> Hey All,
> I've been pretty interested in trapdoor spiders.  I keep Gorgyrella "black" sp. and Cyclocosmia torreya.  I have been most interested in finding trapdoors in the wild to make some observations and answer some questions, mostly about their dispersal.
> 
> I have not done extensive field searching, but a good deal of reading and asking folks.  I work for an archaeological firm doing GIS and, while out GPSing stuff, I am always searching for herps and now trapdoor spiders.
> ...


I know this post is old but if you are still looking for trapdoor spiders i have 2 of them that i know of at my work. I have seen 2 spiders but have found 4 different holes. I am willing to catch them if you are still interested


----------



## Toxoderidae (Aug 21, 2016)

Papi said:


> I know this post is old but if you are still looking for trapdoor spiders i have 2 of them that i know of at my work. I have seen 2 spiders but have found 4 different holes. I am willing to catch them if you are still interested


Dude hasn't posted. Don't revive a dead thread responding to an OP who doesn't post


----------



## Ambly (Aug 31, 2016)

I've posted but not in this threat.  I did end up finding Ummidia around here and have gotten much better at finding trappies.  Thanks for the offer though, man


----------



## Hawker (Jun 20, 2017)

I live in Spotsylvania and I too am looking for trapdoors but not having any luck. Did anybody try to keep them as captives curious how they did in captivity?


----------



## Jason82 (Jun 26, 2017)

Ambly said:


> Hey All,
> I've been pretty interested in trapdoor spiders.  I keep Gorgyrella "black" sp. and Cyclocosmia torreya.  I have been most interested in finding trapdoors in the wild to make some observations and answer some questions, mostly about their dispersal.
> 
> I have not done extensive field searching, but a good deal of reading and asking folks.  I work for an archaeological firm doing GIS and, while out GPSing stuff, I am always searching for herps and now trapdoor spiders.
> ...





Ambly said:


> Hey All,
> I've been pretty interested in trapdoor spiders.  I keep Gorgyrella "black" sp. and Cyclocosmia torreya.  I have been most interested in finding trapdoors in the wild to make some observations and answer some questions, mostly about their dispersal.
> 
> I have not done extensive field searching, but a good deal of reading and asking folks.  I work for an archaeological firm doing GIS and, while out GPSing stuff, I am always searching for herps and now trapdoor spiders.
> ...


Is this a trapdoor spider?


----------



## Jason82 (Jun 26, 2017)

Any help with identifying this spider? 





Hawker said:


> I live in Spotsylvania and I too am looking for trapdoors but not having any luck. Did anybody try to keep them as captives curious how they did in captivity?


----------



## Ungoliant (Jun 26, 2017)

Jason82 said:


> Any help with identifying this spider?


A cork-lid trapdoor spider (family Ctenizidae, genus _Ummidia_).

Cool find!

It's best to start a new thread rather than replying to a thread from four years ago.


----------

