# owning a rattlesnake



## Widowman10 (Mar 8, 2007)

so does anybody know the rules on keeping rattlesnakes as pets? is it legal to do so?


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## Sheri (Mar 8, 2007)

Yeah, the entire world has the exact same legisation in place.

Please check the world rattlesnake guide to law and regulations.


 


You might want to say where you're from.  But, I'm pretty certain it would easy to find your local laws by google.


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## Joe (Mar 8, 2007)

Honestly, if you're asking questions like that, you're probably not ready to keep any hots.


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## PinkLady (Mar 8, 2007)

Joe said:


> Honestly, if you're asking questions like that, you're probably not ready to keep any hots.


I have to agree...I own quite a few different reptiles and arachnids..."hots" is still something I would avoid even with the few years experience I have with my other stuff.


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## green_bottle_04 (Mar 8, 2007)

come on guys...just answer the question!!!!

check with your local wildlife agency, lawyers office, fisheries dept. etc. etc. they will be able to tell you if they can be legally kept. but be careful, some species of rattlers are "sities" in that they are on the protected list and even if it is legal to keep hot snakes...it might still be ILLEGAL to keep the one you want. hope this helps


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## Widowman10 (Mar 8, 2007)

thank you green bottle!! wow, i was just wondering if it was a state-to-state thing, or if it was a nationwide policy on keeping rattlers.


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## green_bottle_04 (Mar 8, 2007)

Widowman10 said:


> thank you green bottle!! wow, i was just wondering if it was a state-to-state thing, or if it was a nationwide policy on keeping rattlers.


its a state to state thing. like here in TN its illegal to keep hots. but its not in certain parts of georgia, alabama, and in the carolinas. sometimes even if its not against STATE law it could still be against city/town law/ordinance


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## Hedorah99 (Mar 8, 2007)

Pennsylvania is pretty much the only state I know of where you can keep anything hot. The laws may have changed, I am not sure. IT does vary from state to state depending on previous experience to if you are using them for research or milking them on a regular basis.

If you are thinking of getting into hots, you need to think long and hard about your decision. Your pet will pretty much leave you with a zero percent margain for error for everything from its housing to day to day maintenance. Rattlesnakes are not the most dangerous of all hot snakes, but if you have ever seen a rattler bite go untreated, you will know they are far from the most benign.


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## Widowman10 (Mar 8, 2007)

thanks hedorah for the helpful info. i def have to give it some thought. i know there is no room for error- at all   do you have any experience with hots?


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## Hedorah99 (Mar 8, 2007)

Widowman10 said:


> thanks hedorah for the helpful info. i def have to give it some thought. i know there is no room for error- at all   do you have any experience with hots?


Close to none. We are trying to incorporate them back into the collection at my zoo. We have had some training with a couple species, but nothing that I would say makes me ready in any capacity to own one.


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## Gigas (Mar 8, 2007)

Just a quick suggestion, i wouldn't start on rattle snakes as your first fast/hot snake.


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## green_bottle_04 (Mar 8, 2007)

Gigus said:


> Just a quick suggestion, i wouldn't start on rattle snakes as your first fast/hot snake.


i agree. get yourself a copperhead or a coral. both are less prone to biting. they would rather run. to narrow it down even further. get a copperhead. unless you are alergic to the venom there is only about a 2% chance that it will kill you. most rattlers wont kill you either, but there is a much higher chance that they could. just be careful in any case. have you thought about a venomoid? all the great things about having the hot snake...but no venom. just another suggestion.


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## Hedorah99 (Mar 8, 2007)

I wouldn't say coral snake. They are rear fanged and not prone to biting, but have the most toxic bite on the north american continent. As for venemoids, you pay hundreds of dollars for an animal with the first stage of its digestive process removed. As far as I know, they tend not to do well in captivity after the surgery. Several friends of mine had venemoids and all died after a year or two, sometimes less. It may have been husbandry related or a result of the surgery.


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## Gigas (Mar 8, 2007)

green_bottle_04 said:


> i agree. get yourself a copperhead or a coral. both are less prone to biting. they would rather run. to narrow it down even further. get a copperhead. unless you are alergic to the venom there is only about a 2% chance that it will kill you.


But you will still be stung by a hospital bill which isn't too friendly and you will endurre the pain of getting bitten by the snake to begin with. People oftens suggest you first but a fast snappy non hot snake then a placid hot so you can find your bearings.



> have you thought about a venomoid? all the great things about having the hot snake...but no venom. just another suggestion.


Not many people support this, its looked down upon very much by snake keepers.


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## Crotalus (Mar 8, 2007)

Hedorah99 said:


> I wouldn't say coral snake. They are rear fanged and not prone to biting, but have the most toxic bite on the north american continent. As for venemoids, you pay hundreds of dollars for an animal with the first stage of its digestive process removed. As far as I know, they tend not to do well in captivity after the surgery. Several friends of mine had venemoids and all died after a year or two, sometimes less. It may have been husbandry related or a result of the surgery.


They are not rearfanged, their fangs are located in the front of the upper jaw, just like their cousin the cobra.
Unwilling to bite yes, but as you say very toxic allthough I would prefer a bite from a coral over a large Crotalus! Corals are difficult to keep unless you have small feeder snakes.

/Lelle


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## Hedorah99 (Mar 8, 2007)

Crotalus said:


> They are not rearfanged, their fangs are located in the front of the upper jaw, just like their cousin the cobra.
> Unwilling to bite yes, but as you say very toxic allthough I would prefer a bite from a coral over a large Crotalus! Corals are difficult to keep unless you have small feeder snakes.
> 
> /Lelle


Ahh my mistake, I thought they were rear fanged. Thanx for the info.


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## Sheri (Mar 8, 2007)

First, keep non-hots.  Then, get out in the field and work with herpers that work with hots and get used to handling them.  Learn under someone that keeps them already.

As for them not being more or less dangerous, you need to look at each individual species and it's venom composition - there are so many species of Crotalus and the anti-venom CroFab is used in all envenomations - designed to work for all in the genus, so the effect is different for different species.  And venom yield as well.

I would also suggest a copperhead - this is going to be my first hot, and I can hardly wait.  Mind you, if I didn't have someone very experienced in keeping hots to teach me and show me how to work with them, it would be an incredibly stupid decision for me at this stage.

But going out in the field and seeing their speed, defense posturing and reactions is invaluable.  (Though I guess they can be much different in the terrarium and that this will vary between species and individual temperament).


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## Mushroom Spore (Mar 8, 2007)

green_bottle_04 said:


> have you thought about a venomoid? all the great things about having the hot snake...but no venom. just another suggestion.


:wall: 

Yes, let's mutilate an animal we're not otherwise competent enough to keep just so we can feel awesome. Nevermind that it's considered an act of cruelty and ILLEGAL if anyone besides a vet performs it--and it's illegal even for vets to do in the UK, and many USA vets will refuse to do it. And that's the LEAST of the problems.

Please do some research before advocating something that irresponsible.

http://www.snakegetters.com/demo/vet/venomoid-faq.html


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## Brian S (Mar 8, 2007)

Gigus said:


> Just a quick suggestion, i wouldn't start on rattle snakes as your first fast/hot snake.


You can ask most "hot" keepers and they (myself included) will tell you the same thing....There is no such thing as a "beginner" hot. It is far better to find whatever species you are interested in and do the neccessary research to keep that particular snake. A copperhead wont prepare you for anything really. 



green_bottle_04 said:


> . have you thought about a venomoid? all the great things about having the hot snake...but no venom. just another suggestion.


Thats opening up a can of worms so to speak. Removing an animal's venom is not just cruel, its saddening. Check this pic out which is after the operation of devenomizing


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## mindlessvw (Mar 8, 2007)

ok first of all the laws not only depend on state they depend on county and city as well as some states having laws about keeping native species as opposed to non-native species...so you have to check alot more than just the state laws...secondly the "beginner" snake you choose will depend largely on what you eventually plan on keeping. If you were hoping to gradually keep elapids you would want to start with something like a false water cobra. If you plan on keeping vipers then yes you would want to considder something like a copperhead. Always remember even the copperhead can make you loose a finger or two. not to mention secondary infection that can be really really nasty! So to answer your question I would CAREFULLY inquire into your county/city/state laws if you were to be considdering keeping hots. Also, I too would highly recomend against coral snakes because of the feeding habits...Thnx Crotalus for pointing that out!


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## Crotalus (Mar 8, 2007)

Sheri said:


> As for them not being more or less dangerous, you need to look at each individual species and it's venom composition - there are so many species of Crotalus and the anti-venom CroFab is used in all envenomations - designed to work for all in the genus, so the effect is different for different species.  And venom yield as well.


Hmm not exactly, the southamericans are usually treated with Butantan Soro Anticrotalico and theres also a mexican serum, Antivipmyn, that suppose to be good for mostly NA species.
For northamerican species, most are still treated with Crofab.


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## ScorpDemon (Mar 11, 2007)

Brian S said:


> You can ask most "hot" keepers and they (myself included) will tell you the same thing....There is no such thing as a "beginner" hot. It is far better to find whatever species you are interested in and do the neccessary research to keep that particular snake. A copperhead wont prepare you for anything really.



I have to agree 100% with that. The only plus to having a copperhead, besides the fact that they are beautiful snakes, is that if you do get bitten, the venom isn't as bad as others would be. My southern copperhead is as docile as a cornsnake.
My first hot was a rattler, Crotalus horridus. I would reccomend you work with someone who either has hots, or has had hots before for a while to learn at least the basics of dealing with hots before you get one.


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## Ewok (Mar 11, 2007)

In Fl, to get a license for hots, you have to do  an internship with an already licensed hot keeper, and log a thousand hours, but I could be wrong, your state or country might have something similar though.


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## Beardo (Mar 11, 2007)

Wow...rear-fanged Coral Snakes and Pennsylvania the only place where you can keep hots? This guy sure knows his stuff!


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## green_bottle_04 (Mar 12, 2007)

Mushroom Spore said:


> :wall:
> 
> Yes, let's mutilate an animal we're not otherwise competent enough to keep just so we can feel awesome. Nevermind that it's considered an act of cruelty and ILLEGAL if anyone besides a vet performs it--and it's illegal even for vets to do in the UK, and many USA vets will refuse to do it. And that's the LEAST of the problems.
> 
> ...


i have done the research as i own 2 venomoid snakes that were rescues. first off..."considered an act of cruelty" that is most definately your opinion..so please dont try to substitute it as fact. many people would argue that spaying/neutering dogs and cats is cruelty...do you agree with that too? 

secondly...."ILLEGAL if anyone besides a vet performs it" that is completely not true. again, another one of your opinions you try to pass off as fact. is it smart to have someone other than a vet do it....no of course not. but different states have different laws..thats what makes this country great. cool huh? saying that "many us vets wont do it" is again leading down the wrong path. its true that alot of them wont. but not for the one and only reason you are trying to highlight, that its cruelty. most of the ones who wont do it simply dont feel comfortabe working with a venomous snake, others simply dont know how (they have just never studied it). so...take some of your own advice...do a little research before posting.

do i completely agree with venomoid snakes...no. as i said the venomoids i have were rescues. ive had tons of hot snakes and with those two exceptions they still very much had their venom glands and ducts. but...if someone is determined to own a hot and are inexperienced (and i know you are going to say "well they just shouldnt own one" thats true...but guess what...they are going to get one anyway) so you might as well tell them how to do it and keep themselves alive.


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## Hedorah99 (Mar 12, 2007)

DavidBeard said:


> Wow...rear-fanged Coral Snakes and Pennsylvania the only place where you can keep hots? This guy sure knows his stuff!


Sorry i got the one about the corals wrong. And I meant to say PA is the only place where i know there is no license needed, its kinda free for all as far as I know. Why don't you try and contribute something instead. Why, I feel someone had this conversation with me recently .


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## mindlessvw (Mar 12, 2007)

i don't live in PA but i think the law is that you don't need a license but you can't keep native species...so its not necessarily a free for all but not highly regulated...i think...don't quote me


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## Beardo (Mar 12, 2007)

The only venomoids I condone are the ones done by Dr. Jeremy Sabatini (www.venomoidinc.com)....he is the only vet I know of that does the surgery.


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## Mushroom Spore (Mar 12, 2007)

green_bottle_04 said:


> i have done the research as i own 2 venomoid snakes that were rescues. first off..."considered an act of cruelty" that is most definately your opinion..so please dont try to substitute it as fact. many people would argue that spaying/neutering dogs and cats is cruelty...do you agree with that too?


Did you actually read what I posted? It is illegal in the UK and many US vets will refuse to do it.

Furthermore, comparing it to spaying/neutering is downright moronic. 

"Q. Isn't the venomoid operation just like spaying or neutering?
A. No. Spaying and neutering has actual health benefits to many animals, and it also addresses humane concerns about unwanted offspring being born that cannot be cared for. No veterinarian will refuse to perform this kind of operation, and some even volunteer their time to do this service at animal shelters. There are no ethical questions in the veterinary profession about spaying and neutering because it helps the animals. Also, not very many people are operating on dogs in their own garage with a razor blade after making sure they are too cold to struggle. That really is happening to snakes, and unfortunately nobody seems to care. It is much harder to get animal cruelty laws enforced when the victim is a reptile and not a cute furry animal. Dog breeders who are doing similar things to the animals they sell have gotten into a lot of trouble with the law."

http://www.snakegetters.com/demo/vet/venomoids1.html
"Some apologists have compared the procedure to spaying or neutering, but it is not comparable. Neutering can have significant health and longevity benefits to the mammalian patient as well as addressing humane concerns about the birth of more animals which may not recieve adequate care. No veterinarian will refuse to do a spay or a neuter, and some volunteer their time at humane shelters to do this good service for patients who do not have paying owners. Many veterinarians will refuse to perform cosmetic or owner-benefit only procedures such as declawing, debarking or decorative ear piercing. The ethics of the former procedure are well accepted; the ethics of the latter type of procedure are considered highly questionable in the veterinary profession." 



green_bottle_04 said:


> secondly...."ILLEGAL if anyone besides a vet performs it" that is completely not true.


Try again. 

"Q. Is the venomoid operation legal?
A. Not in Europe, where they have stricter laws about animal welfare. It is still legal in the US for a licensed veterinarian to do elective non patient benefit procedures like tooth and claw removal on wild animals, or venomoid surgery, though many veterinarians will refuse to do this to an animal. It is not legal for people who are not veterinarians to perform this surgery, especially for profit. Some states allow farmers to perform simple procedures on their own livestock if it is done humanely. Venomoiders who are making money performing these operations do not fall into this legal category and are breaking the law. They are practicing veterinary medicine without a license and the drugs they use are illegal for non veterinarians to possess. There are some amateur venomoiders who do not use any drugs, relying on keeping the snakes too cold to struggle when they start cutting. This is also illegal because doing surgery on a conscious, feeling patient is extreme animal cruelty. Contact your state regulatory authorities to find out what the exact laws are in your area, or ask your veterinarian."



green_bottle_04 said:


> so...take some of your own advice...do a little research before posting.


You're adorable.


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## Nich (Mar 14, 2007)

green_bottle_04 said:


> i have done the research as i own 2 venomoid snakes that were rescues. first off..."considered an act of cruelty" that is most definately your opinion


Your way off base. Goto any "hot" site and say that....you would read a resounding "YES IT IS".


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## Midnightrdr456 (Mar 14, 2007)

also venemoids are DANGEROUS if not done properly they can still give out venom.

Also Virginia you dont need a liscense and Im pretty sure other states too, there is a site that lists them all, im running late right now but later ill try and find it/post it for you.

I really recommend working with an experienced hot keeper, im looking into hots myself, and I hav spent about a month now hands on with a friend that has been keeping hots for 10-11 years now.  After a month of maintaining the cages and transporting and such, I still feel I am nowhere near ready to have my own.


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## mindlessvw (Mar 14, 2007)

that would be awesome if you could get the list together...that might shed some light on which states it is/is not ok...although it always has to be remembered that state and county law can differ...look at austin compared to other texas cities...


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## Ewok (Mar 14, 2007)

whats it like working with hots as a novice?  I highly doubt I ever will work with them.  just working around tarantulas gave me sweaty hands sometimes . especially that G.rosa  I can't imagine how many buckets of water I would sweat working around a venomous snake haha.


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## blacktara (Mar 14, 2007)

*Clarification*

"and the anti-venom CroFab is used in all envenomations "

Not true at all. Cro-Fab has at least some effectiveness against all North American crotalid venoms, but

1.It does not have to be given for all bites. Somewhere between a third and a half of NA crotalid bites seen in American ER's turn out to be dry bites
2.It will not effect for coral snake envenomations
3.I do not know how effective (if at all) it is against the neurotoxic component of Mojave rattler venom


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## Sheri (Mar 14, 2007)

Well, if it was a dry bite then there was no _envenomation_.  Right?  


And as Lelle said, there was Crotalus species that have other anti-venoms made for them in other parts of the Americas.

I was thinking of Crotalus in North America when I wrote that. As for corral snakes - well - they are neither rattlesnakes nor a member of the genus Crotalus.  


Nice to see you around here again though!


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## Crotalus (Mar 18, 2007)

blacktara said:


> 3.I do not know how effective (if at all) it is against the neurotoxic component of Mojave rattler venom


Quite effective. The least effective is against serious helleri envenomations


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## ShadowBlade (Mar 18, 2007)

Man, I don't know if anyone else here was like me, but when I was young on the farm, I knew what the poisonous snakes looked like, but I didn't really respect them like I should of. Young copperheads I used to mess around with all the time, never got close to being bit. (I wouldn't really abuse them or anything though).

Adults you hardly see for more then a few seconds, unless you find them while you're mowing the grass.

But I still won't trust myself owning a hot till I'm plenty older with many years of snake experience, I've seen mad rattlers, it ain't fun.


-Sean


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## RattlesnakeMan (Jan 21, 2018)

Widowman10 said:


> so does anybody know the rules on keeping rattlesnakes as pets? is it legal to do so?



I own one.   Here is a youtube video link of my baby.


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## RattlesnakeMan (Jan 21, 2018)




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## RattlesnakeMan (Jan 21, 2018)



Reactions: Like 1


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## The Snark (Jan 21, 2018)

No state law against keeping the 6 pit vipers native to Calif. However, local, city and county, may have their own ordinances. All other pit vipers require a permit. CCR, Title 14, Section 671(c)(7)(E)

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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