# Theraphosa genus care in captivity



## Fran (Nov 7, 2010)

The *Theraphosa *genus (Thorell, 1870 ) encompass 2 known  specie and a 3rd one under revision:

*Theraphosa blondi*_, Latreille, 1804_
_*Theraphosa apophysis*__ , Tinter, 1991_
*Theraphosa sp. "Burgundy" soon to be  "spinipes"* , under revision by Brazilian taxonomists.

The areas where the genus come from are  mainly the Rain forest from  Venezuela, Brazil, Guyana and parts of Surinam.

Temperature* on average *stays on the low-mid  80's F , up to 100% relative humidity all year round. Mid-high 70's F are not impossible to find, but uncommon.
Due to the climatology conditions, the sensation of sofocating warmth  and moisture can be overwhelming.
The hours of light in the amazon jungle past quite fast; Night will drop quickly and suddenly,so no extra lightning needed for these sp.
(Info: Universidad Central de Venezuela, UCV, Departamento de Geografia )

*
As adults; *
*Theraphosa blondi* present an all around dark to light brown color,with different color tones   depending on the molt cicle and the individual. It has a more "fuzzy" overall look, with setae  on the patella segment of their legs. They have  the thickest, widest  and stockiest proportions of any Theraphosid known out there.

*Theraphosa apophysis *Has a more slender and leggier overall look than Blondi. They are more redish and "rusty" in color, alzo "fuzzy" like the Blondi. The cephalotorax (carpace) is slighly less rounded and slighly less thick looking.

*Theraphosa Sp. "Spinipes" *has a thick body and bold presence as Blondi, but lacks setae on the patela segment of the legs.
Overall looking as stocky as blondi, althought depending on the individual , thickest proportions are probably found in Blondi.

 These genus is  well known opportunistic burrowers, this means, they will take up a small mammal burrow and make it their own.

Females of these genus tend to stay in their burrows only wondering at the entrance  waiting for pray at night. Males tend to wonder around more often, even at immature stages.


In my 15 year experience and after researching quite a bit about the specie reading what  other experienced hobbyists and breeders have encounter, *in general* this genus needs;
* 
A very large enclosure* (Adults will be comfortable on a 40G tank or similar)
* A very large, moist ,dark and deep burrow  *with several inches of substrate to allow building a chamber.
*Warm temperatures on the low-mid 80's*
*High humidity (over 70%)*
*High ventilation*
*Regular invertebrate feedings*
*Access to a large water dish with fresh water*
*Regular cage maintenance*
*No disturbance*


If those conditions are met, they will be quite "content" on captivity making easier the successfully breedings.

The main defense mechanisms of these Genus is the_ *hair kicking*_, so the zero disturbance policy will not only make them more comfortable but will make your life a whole lot easier. Their urticant hair are extremely irritant.

As a consequence of this defense mechanism adding the regular hair loss due to an advanced molt stage and abdomen growth,* it will be really rare to have a Theraphosa with an abdomen full of hair*. So dont panic, theres nothing wrong with it, the bold spots only makes your Theraphosa a Theraphosa.

*The molt stages;* As a consequence of their enormous size, the  pre molt stage can last up to 3 to 3 and a half  months off feeding.
During the molt process, which can last over 24h, it is recommended to keep the humidity as its max.
After the molt, as adults, they can be up to 2 to 3 weeks  off feeding,"relocating" his sucking stomach and internal organs.


*As spiderlings,* 
Theraphosa blondi does not present any pink-salmon coloration on the meta tarsus and tarsus segments  of the legs, while Apophysis will have  all of them pink till they reach around 5" of leg span. "Spinipes" will present white and pink tarsus and meta tarsus in their 1st and 2nd pair of legs  till around the same leg span is reached.

You need to provide an enclosure on the smaller side (2ls by 2 ls)a very damp environment,  higher temps (mid-high 80's ) and even at 2nd instar you will want to put a water dish with them. (They wont drown, they have been without your care for thousands of years).

Regular feedings (almost daily) are a must to keep them well hydrated  and strong enough to pull their very fragile firsts molts.
The no disturbance policy will be a must; they are very skittish when spiderlings.


They are a great genus to keep, they just require a little more attention than your average pet rock.

Fran

Reactions: Like 1


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## Scoolman (Nov 7, 2010)

That was great Fran. Just in time, since I just brought Precious home yesterday.


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## Bjamin (Nov 7, 2010)

Thanks Fran good info I will need to look at getting a bigger tank for my girl as she grow right now it is 30x60cm but she is still only about 4-5 inches I did get a couple more pics can you give me a positive id with these? If not it would be great if you could let me know what you would need.http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=193653


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## Bob (Nov 7, 2010)

In regards to feeding these beast.....My "burgundy" female just molted to about 3.5 to 4 inched and would not eat adult crickets seven days after her molt. 80 degrees plus and humid. A gave here a mouse pinkie and she ate it right away! This genes seams to like them better than others...................

Bob


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## pato_chacoana (Nov 7, 2010)

Great post Fran! This thread is a good opportunity to write and add the experiences to enhance and improve the care of these amazing creatures. Let every newbie or any spider keeper know that taking care of a _Theraphosa_ is not like taking care of any other ''tropical''.

I will also add pics and info later 

Oh, my Theraphosas are always with all their hairs in their butts! I hate it when they kick hairs, so I do everything I can to avoid getting them pissed! haha. But eventually they throw all the hairs when molting anyway! 

Cheers,
Pato


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## Fran (Nov 7, 2010)

pato_chacoana said:


> Great post Fran! This thread is a good opportunity to write and add the experiences to enhance and improve the care of these amazing creatures. Let every newbie or any spider keeper know that taking care of a _Theraphosa_ is not like taking care of any other ''tropical''.
> 
> I will also add pics and info later
> 
> ...



Great Pato!
Someone like you  is gonna be priceless for this thread. Thanks for all your contributions.


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## Chris_Skeleton (Nov 7, 2010)

Fran, would you care to let me use your post as a care sheet on my website? All credit would be to you and it would be an awesome addition to my site.


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## Snakes13 (Nov 7, 2010)

Whew... Thats a Big relief, I was a little worried I was doing something wrong once I saw her spot grow,  but looks like I'm square on the money.   I did add more to her Den/ burrow so the top of the rock(ish) structure sits near the top of the cage allowing her to dig down as far as she needs/ wants. 
I'm am already starting to notice a little humidity control problem (since my roommates downstairs are staring to use space heaters to keep warm at night this morning all the tanks had a 15-20% drop) that my daily misting and watering of plants isn't keeping it quite as high as it should.  What do you guys use to help regulate your tanks?  I have an old Zoo Med Reptile Fogger that we use to use for some lizards. Would this work better than misting (I make extra careful to never mist near Bertha) or is there something else easier like a digital regulating set it and forget it humidity control that I can buy? I do check temps and humidity every morning afternoon and night to make sure things are keeping regulated.  

While I'm posting, I use the Fulkers cricket quencher to water all my many legged friends, what are your guys thoughts on it? should I just stick to a normal water dish?


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## Scoolman (Nov 7, 2010)

Snakes13 said:


> While I'm posting, I use the Fulkers cricket quencher to water all my many legged friends, what are your guys thoughts on it? should I just stick to a normal water dish?


I say, why use a chemical concoction to provide something as simple as water.
I keep humidity up by adding water directly to the substrate, I do not mist, ever.


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## BrettG (Nov 7, 2010)

Snakes13 said:


> Whew... Thats a Big relief, I was a little worried I was doing something wrong once I saw her spot grow,  but looks like I'm square on the money.   I did add more to her Den/ burrow so the top of the rock(ish) structure sits near the top of the cage allowing her to dig down as far as she needs/ wants.
> I'm am already starting to notice a little humidity control problem (since my roommates downstairs are staring to use space heaters to keep warm at night this morning all the tanks had a 15-20% drop) that my daily misting and watering of plants isn't keeping it quite as high as it should.  What do you guys use to help regulate your tanks?  I have an old Zoo Med Reptile Fogger that we use to use for some lizards. Would this work better than misting (I make extra careful to never mist near Bertha) or is there something else easier like a digital regulating set it and forget it humidity control that I can buy? I do check temps and humidity every morning afternoon and night to make sure things are keeping regulated.
> 
> While I'm posting, I use the Fulkers cricket quencher to water all my many legged friends, what are your guys thoughts on it? should I just stick to a normal water dish?


Water dish ,NO gels...
They cannot properly hydrate with the gels.


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## Bob (Nov 7, 2010)

One othe rule I use with Theraphosa due to my extreme sensitivityto their hairs....I change substraight every molt.

Bob


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## jt39565 (Nov 7, 2010)

Fran, your awesome! Now you should work on doing one of those for all T's !
Makes me wana get one of those T. blondi's.


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## Fran (Nov 7, 2010)

Chris_Skeleton said:


> Fran, would you care to let me use your post as a care sheet on my website? All credit would be to you and it would be an awesome addition to my site.


Of course man, I can even  provide specific details of the sources also .

My pleasure .


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## Terry D (Nov 7, 2010)

Fran, Great idea for a thread. If there's anyone on this board that knows genus Theraphosa well, it's you my friend! From what I've read since lurking on the boards before joining last Nov., Pato knows his stuff as well! Between you both, noob and long-time keepers alike will be able to access the info for help or for contribution!  



pato_chacoana said:


> Great post Fran! This thread is a good opportunity to write and add the experiences to enhance and improve the care of these amazing creatures. Let every newbie or any spider keeper know that taking care of a _Theraphosa_ is not like taking care of any other ''tropical''.
> 
> I will also add pics and info later
> 
> ...


I though it was a bit unusual, but my large female rarely ever kicked hairs after the first 2 weeks or so of acclimation in the very beginning. She began to show some balding 2 months or so before molting but I'm guessing that was to be expected. She would occasionally give a half-hearted kick or two during cage maintenance, though. The behavior that made me a bit nervous as a keeper was her once a week to bi-monthly "wanderlust" habit. She would climb and climb noisily and restlessly against the walls of the cage as if attempting to get out. This would go on for hours then she'd calm down and retreat into her cave.

The little one is in heavy premolt now- has just about lost all of it's hairs!


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## Chris_Skeleton (Nov 7, 2010)

Fran said:


> Of course man, I can even  provide specific details of the sources also .
> 
> My pleasure .


Thanks, I really appreciate it. Just PM me the sources and details.


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## Philth (Nov 7, 2010)

Fran said:


> *in general* this genus needs;
> *
> A very large enclosure* (Adults will be comfortable on a 40G tank or similar)
> Fran


Ive had a successful _T. blondi _ sac, and have an eggsac now from T. sp. "burgundy" now in enclosures much smaller, 22”(L) x 17”(W) x 6.6”(H).



Fran said:


> * A very large, moist ,dark and deep burrow  *with several inches of substrate to allow building a chamber.
> Fran


In the smaller enclosures I keep them in, there is only about a inch of dirt, with a cork bark hide. Neither female decided to construct there sac in this hide, but chose a open corner to lay eggs in.

My personal belief in successfully breeding_ Theraphosa_ is to have long term, or captive bred animals to work with.  Stressed wild caught adults wont make good breeders. (or pets. ) It also helps to know what species your working with, Dont trust that pet store "_T.blondi_"

In know your post was speaking in general terms Fran, and I think this is a great thread, but in my experience there is no rules in captive breeding of Theraphosidae spiders haha 

In my opinion care sheets crack me up, as I've raised about 7 _T. blondi_ from my 2007 sac now to about 6-7 inches. There were all raised in plastic deli cups, with a tiny bit of damp dirt, no hide, no water dish, and all at room temperature.



Bob said:


> One othe rule I use with Theraphosa due to my extreme sensitivityto their hairs....I change substraight every molt.
> 
> Bob


Why? seems like that would stress the spider more, causing it to kick more hair. Most of my _Theraphosa_'s have a full butt of hair, but I do have a few wacky ones, that kick for no freaking reason. 

Later, Tom


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## Fran (Nov 7, 2010)

Philth said:


> Ive had a successful _T. blondi _ sac, and have an eggsac now from T. sp. "burgundy" now in enclosures much smaller, 22”(L) x 17”(W) x 6.6”(H).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oh, I have kept them on the smaller side too. But as you menctioned, those who get more "comfy" with "harder" conditions are mainly CB individuals.
anything WC will just drive you crazy on a 10G Tank with climbing and wondering non stop.

And again, thats not the general norm. I have had probably over 3 or 400 different  adults, juvies and slings...And the norm is that if they are WC, smaller enclosures will not be their cup of tea .


Unfortunately, althought I have had  a succesfull egg sack from a Theraphosa blondi in 1996, the work wasnt done by me but by my brother (I was a kid). Not much of a great experience on breeding true blondi here.


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## pato_chacoana (Nov 7, 2010)

In my opinion about the tank size...I've found the ideal at 50x30x30 (cm). I do have a larger tank for my biggest, but I really don't think it's necessary... If the spider is well acclimated, there's no problem. Inside the 50x30x30 I already put some live plants and I'll add more in time; the spider's been for only 1 day in her new enclosure and she seems to love it and settled perfectly.





this is the enclosure (without the lid)

As for breeding, I'm eager to have my chance soon with TB, as I have an immature male and the females are waiting.






male

I agree that animals can breed in not ''ideal'' conditions too. I've had at least 3 different sp. that I bred in captivity perfectly far from ideals conditions (one of them even without a hide or chance to burrow). But I think that it's healthy for the animals (even as simple as arthropods are) to have the most ideal conditions we can provide for them...and this also although not guarantees anything, it increases breeding chances somehow. Now, maybe the spider has the perfect environment to our eyes, but for any damn reason we ignore, won't breed... this also has happened to me. So, there are no strict rules to me...but as everything in life, the more you try, the better results you get.

I also had the case where a spider will choose to lay the sac in a corner of the cage (case being A. chacoana and P. sp. ''nigricolor''), but I think it was because the hide wasn't big enough for them to build such large sacs. Either way, the sac of the chacoana was good and she used the hide after construction; the other sac was not good due to bad sac construction and possible infertile eggs. I think that one of the keys is to give the spider the conditions required for ovulation/egg production, being corrects temps, humidity, mating season, etc. I think the spider needs to feel ''secure'' inside the enclosure to be able to breed. Some species are clearly settle easily, while others such as _Theraphosa_ are harder.

I also think that mating the correct species (male and female) is VERY important deal and it might sound silly, but sometimes we don't know where the spiders come from and we could mate slightly different variants that could be harder to produce viable offspring.

Very interesting to share inputs about this, thanks everyone!

Talk soon,

Pato


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## Philth (Nov 7, 2010)

Great comments Pato ! 

I should make it clear that the ones I raised with out a hide/ water dish/ extra heat ect ect ... are CB animals that I hatched here.  My breeders are offered everything and  kept at optimal conditions.

Later, Tom


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## Mattyb (Nov 8, 2010)

Great info Fran. I keep my big females each in a 20gal and it seems to be plenty of room.


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## KoffinKat138 (Nov 8, 2010)

Nice Info Fran, It's probably the best Theraphosa species care sheet on the Web right now.


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## Anubis77 (Nov 8, 2010)

Very good caresheet. Makes me want to keep this genus.

Since the whole T. spinipes thing lately, I've been wondering how accurate it is to say that T. blondi is the largest species though. How certain of that can we be? Do we know that the largest spider was in fact a T. blondi and not a T. spinipes? I've never kept a large individual of T. blondi or spinipes, but from pictures, I don't see much size discrepancy between them. T. blondi looks slightly thicker due to the heavier bristles, but that's about it.

Is there any data on the average masses of each species from any decent sample size?


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## robd (Nov 8, 2010)

Good question anubis, I have wondered that myself.

Big props on the caresheet, Fran. Thanks for picking your brain for everybody else. Much appreciated.


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## pato_chacoana (Nov 9, 2010)

Thanks Tom!

I just weighed my largest female and she's at 119,4 grams  I didn't even fed her much and still could be lot fatter :razz: She was really docile and let me cup her and weight her without kicking even a single hair. I love this girl...she's been with me since subadult, for 5 years now.
I'll def. stop feeding her until next molt lol

Here's a recent pic.






I now have treated that slight fungus on anterior abdomen...

Cheers,
Pato


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## xhexdx (Nov 9, 2010)

Fran et al, 

I'm including this thread in the reference sticky at the top of this subforum.  Hopefully that will help to get this thread some extra views and help to keep the good information flowing.

Great job! 

--Joe


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## aracnobrachy (Nov 10, 2010)

pato_chacoana said:


> Thanks Tom!
> 
> I just weighed my largest female and she's at 119,4 grams  I didn't even fed her much and still could be lot fatter :razz: She was really docile and let me cup her and weight her without kicking even a single hair. I love this girl...she's been with me since subadult, for 5 years now.
> I'll def. stop feeding her until next molt lol
> ...


Sos pato del foro vida reptil argentina? 



saludos seba argentina


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## aracnobrachy (Nov 10, 2010)

my theraphosa sp burgundy adult female.


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## Stan Schultz (Nov 10, 2010)

Fran said:


> The *Theraphosa *genus (Thorell, 1870 ) encompass 2 known  specie and a 3rd one under revision:
> 
> *Theraphosa blondi*_, Latreille, 1804_
> _*Theraphosa apophysis*__ , Tinter, 1991_
> *Theraphosa sp. "Burgundy" soon to be  "spinipes"* , under revision by Brazilian taxonomists. ...


Fran, you need to be very careful about announcing scientific names that are pending. The International Commission of Zoological Nomenclature (ICZN) in the International Code of Zoological Nomenclature specifically states that no animal may be given a name that has ever been previously used in reference to any animal. I don't know how the ICZN deals with publication of names on the Internet ("The world, she is a changin'."), specifically on a hobbyist forum, but this could potentially screw the whole show for those Brazilian taxonomists. They'd have to rewrite the seminal paper to change their proposed name to a new, unused name.

Besides being a royal pain in the ***, it could delay publication thereby allowing someone else the time to scoop the publication. And, the original taxonomists would then be cheated of their credits.

If the paper were already published when the fact of prior use of the name came to light it would mean that someone, possibly but not necessarily the original authors, would have to publish a correction. In the meantime arachnologists of the world, professional and amateur alike, would be using the illegitimate name, and the world of arachnid taxonomy would be forever saddled with another confusing synonym.

I am checking with taxonomists now to confirm this and will report back as soon as I have any further information.

Sorry.


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## Fran (Nov 10, 2010)

Pikaia said:


> Fran, you need to be very careful about announcing scientific names that are pending. The International Commission of Zoological Nomenclature (ICZN) in the International Code of Zoological Nomenclature specifically states that no animal may be given a name that has ever been previously used in reference to any animal. I don't know how the ICZN deals with publication of names on the Internet ("The world, she is a changin'."), specifically on a hobbyist forum, but this could potentially screw the whole show for those Brazilian taxonomists. They'd have to rewrite the seminal paper to change their proposed name to a new, unused name.
> 
> Besides being a royal pain in the ***, it could delay publication thereby allowing someone else the time to scoop the publication. And, the original taxonomists would then be cheated of their credits.
> 
> ...


This is a bit of "old news" Stan. This has been talked about probably hundred of times by now.
There was paper out there talking about the whole "Spinipes" thing, open for the public.


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## Zoltan (Nov 11, 2010)

Pikaia said:


> The International Commission of Zoological Nomenclature (ICZN) in the International Code of Zoological Nomenclature specifically states that no animal may be given a name that has ever been previously used in reference to any animal. I don't know how the ICZN deals with publication of names on the Internet ("The world, she is a changin'."), specifically on a hobbyist forum, but this could potentially screw the whole show for those Brazilian taxonomists.


Only a published name can become a nomen nudum. By the standards of the ICZN, a name posted on an internet forum doesn't consitute a "published name": ICZN Article 9.9.

Edit: according to the entry of nomen nudum in the ICZN glossary, "a nomen nudum is not an available name, and therefore the same name may be made available later for the same or a different concept", so it could still be used later. Günter Schmidt has published a few nomina nuda before, then later published a description and the names became valid.


Fran said:


> There was paper out there talking about the whole "Spinipes" thing, open for the public.


It wasn't a paper, it was just an abstract of a paper to come. Like a trailer of a movie.


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## Fran (Nov 11, 2010)

Zoltan said:


> Only a published name can become a nomen nudum. By the standards of the ICZN, a name posted on an internet forum doesn't consitute a "published name": ICZN Article 9.9.
> 
> It wasn't a paper, it was just an abstract of a paper to come. Like a trailer of a movie.


True, the abstract.


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## Stan Schultz (Nov 13, 2010)

Fran, Zoltan and All -

I seem to have opened a small can of worms. Upon posing the following questions on the Taxacom mailing list - 

*Does such publication constitute prior publication by current ICZN rules? If so, must the taxonomists now use a different name?

If its announcement on the Internet constitutes prior usage, but it is (innocently) published anyway, and later its prior use on the Internet comes to light, how would the problem most probably be resolved?*

I received a number of direct answers, but the total number of responses in the ensuing discussion now exceeds 75! Apparently the topic of the validity of scientific names published on the Internet is quite relevant and currently in a state of development.

While several responses answered my questions directly, perhaps two of the more telling are:

1) Francisco Welter-Schultes of the University of Goettingen, Germany and www.animalbase.org. I quote the relevant portion here.

"... you might fear that someone could read the name in the 
internet resource and suddenly use it in a paper-based 
publication, undeliberately causing problems there.

This had been a problem in the past centuries, but in the current 
edition of the ICZN Code there is a provision not only that a new 
name must be published on paper, but also that a previosuly 
unpublished name will only be accepted as new and available if there 
is an explicit statement in the paper-based publication that this 
name shall be new (besides that types must be cited) (Art. 16.1, 
16.4). So a mere use of such a name in a paper-based publication 
alone, even if combined with a short and differentiating 
description, would not make the name available."

2) Doug Yanega Dept. of Entomology Entomology Research Museum Univ. of California, Riverside. Again, I quote the relevant portion here. (The emboldening is mine for emphasis.)

"Under the present Code, this is not a problem, as others have 
indicated. However, there will soon be a change in the Code that will 
permit valid "electronic publication" of nomenclatural acts. There is 
still some serious discussion as to the exact nature of the 
conditions and restrictions involved, *but this is fairly close on the 
horizon, so in a year or two, a question such as yours might have a 
very different answer. *

... At this point, the perception is that the taxonomic community would 
prefer absolute freedom - anyone can publish anything, anywhere - to 
the imposition of any sort of restrictions (e.g., peer review, name 
registration, or a "whitelist" of acceptable electronic journals). *If 
there is an overwhelming sentiment among taxonomists that we should 
NOT allow hobbyists and other self-publishing online sources to be 
validated, then now is the time to make that sentiment known (before 
irrevocable changes are made) - along with an explanation as to how 
we can make the distinction between acceptable and unacceptable 
e-pubs objective (assuming that is a concern).*"

Thus, we may draw the following conclusions:

1) While electronic publication (i.e., on the Internet), including perhaps mere mention of a proposed scientific name, is currently not considered "publication," per se, that time is coming.

2) The exact rules for allowing such publication, and for defining what is acceptable and what is not, have not yet been established, but are being worked on as we speak.

3) The question of whether or not publication of such names by a "hobbyist" (presumably synonymous with "amateur" and "enthusiast") should be considered valid is a very real concern. (The major stumbling block may likely be in determining at what level one ceases to be an amateur and advances to some more acceptable level.)

[Note: I have been told by several different authorities that one of the major reasons that theraphosid taxonomy is such a mess is that too many "amateurs" have been messing it up!]

When I first posted my warning to Fran about the use of preliminary scientific names I knew of the "prior use" restrictions by the ICZN, but didn't know the details of its application, specifically whether they now included publication on the Internet. That immediate question has been answered. But, the handwriting is on the wall. Until the ICZN specifically addresses the publication of species descriptions and their scientific names on the Internet, it is probably best that enthusiasts not use proposed or pending scientific names on the 'Net.

"The world, she is a changin'."


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## arañacacata (Nov 13, 2010)

Very interesting this post I help myself to opening the eyes me and to understand three species of theraphosa.
 THANK YOU FOR HIS EXPLANATIONS AND ALREADY I HAVE EVERYTHING filed.


 Regards arañcacata


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## pato_chacoana (Nov 13, 2010)

Pikaia said:


> Fran, Zoltan and All -
> 
> 
> [Note: I have been told by several different authorities that one of the major reasons that theraphosid taxonomy is such a mess is that too many "amateurs" have been messing it up!]
> ...



I think that's the lousy taxonomists excuse about not being able to key out the hard groups and making the ''easy'' papers because they have to publish anything to keep their jobs. While others take risks and do it the hard way but make respectable and useful research.
In the big picture, the world is not changing to me, everything works pretty much the same way.

And about saying the names on the internet, it's just freedom of speech... The taxonomist may pass the information they want before they publish, but if people start talking about it, well...you can't expect them to keep it secret. So, don't give any _publish material_ information to any people that post in forums!!!!!

Cheers,
Pato


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## Fran (Nov 13, 2010)

Yeap, agree with Pato.

To begin with so many  Dealers started this "mess" already. As I recall, it was 2006-7 when people started to call them "Burgundy". 

It is impossible for anyone to expect not to anounce  or to keep quiet this sort of things on the  vast internet.

I dont think the world have to change its ways but rather the sistem they use needs to "fit" the world.


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## Stan Schultz (Nov 13, 2010)

pato_chacoana said:


> I think that's the lousy taxonomists excuse about not being able to key out the hard groups and making the ''easy'' papers because they have to publish anything to keep their jobs. While others take risks and do it the hard way but make respectable and useful research.
> In the big picture, the world is not changing to me, everything works pretty much the same way.
> 
> And about saying the names on the internet, it's just freedom of speech... The taxonomist may pass the information they want before they publish, but if people start talking about it, well...you can't expect them to keep it secret. So, don't give any _publish material_ information to any people that post in forums!!!!!
> ...


Pato -

I have to admit that you make some very good points. And, I must also admit that the very most basic human qualities, motives, and ethics don't seem to change over very large periods of time. Good response!

What I was referring to in my closing quote was the fact that the way we do things (not necessarily the reasons we do them) is changing, sometimes almost too fast. Alvin Toffler coined the term "future shock" for the condition and subsequently published a book by that name (Toffler, A. 1970. _Future Shock_. Random House.). Any who are interested in more information about the subject are encouraged to visit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_Shock or Google the term.

Another relevant quote to chew on:
*"A slow sort of country!" said the Queen. "Now, here you see, it takes all the running you can do, to keep in the same place. If you want to get somewhere else, you must run at least twice as fast as that."* (Carroll, L. 1871. _Through the Looking-Glass, and What Alice Found There._)

Lastly, in spite of the incredible menagerie of animals that appear in Lewis Carroll's stories, I don't remember a tarantula. Most peculiar. Most peculiar indeed.


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## Stan Schultz (Nov 13, 2010)

Fran said:


> ... I dont think the world have to change its ways but rather the sistem they use needs to "fit" the world.


At last! Fran and I agree on something! 

You are so right, my friend! In the USA (as an example) "do-gooders" tried "Prohibition" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibition) between 1920 and 1933. It failed miserably. Now the USA is trying to do the same thing with drugs. And the attempt is also failing miserably, but to the tune of $1 trillion (!) and hundreds of thousands of lives over the last 40 years. (http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/05/13/ap-impact-years-trillion-war-drugs-failed-meet-goals/) They're trying to change the world and human nature instead of changing the system.

I don't know what the answers to addictions and the Drug War are. All I know is that what we're doing now is arguably almost as bad as not doing anything at all.

*[AT THIS POINT I WILL PETITION THE MODERATORS TO FREEZE THIS THREAD IF IT DEVOLVES INTO A DISCUSSI0N OF U.S. DRUG POLICY!]*

It isn't the world that has to change, it's the system. In our case, the taxonomists have to be very careful of what rules they make to control the impact and efficacy of the Internet. They need to change the taxonomic "system," but they need to do so *WISELY*. Rest assured that they are not a bunch of drooling idiots. I have the faith that they will accomplish the feat. I hope. Maybe. Probably. But, of course! After all, they're scientists, not politicians!


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## Fran (Nov 13, 2010)

Stan,
Indeed I have the upmost respect for science and scientist of any field.
Is just that sometimes one questions why to do things so .."complicated". 

Anyway, in regards  the original comment you made, I really wasnt trying to make a statement (Im nobody on this matter, just an enthusiast ) with the "Spinipes-soon to be" ...but rather explain it  a bit for those who are still lost with  this genus.

PS: I literally hated when they came out with that "Burgundy"name  out of the blue.


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## pato_chacoana (Nov 14, 2010)

Stan,

I understand what you're saying. Also, scientists are above all, just people. Some of them will do good things, while others not... I'm not criticizing, just saying they are not some kind of superior elite or any different from everyone else. They are not exempt from making mistakes. Over here I'm studying Biology to hopefully one day get the chance to work with Theraphosids, and I hope to make the right decisions along the way 

Cheers,
Pato


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## Philth (Nov 14, 2010)

Fran said:


> Stan,
> 
> 
> PS: I literally hated when they came out with that "Burgundy"name  out of the blue.


Why?  To me it made more scene then calling them _T. blondi_ like most dealers. (most still do:?)

Im not a big fan of the sp. "burgundy" name either , as I would rather seen unsubscribed/unknown spiders labeled with a country or local of origin. Example, Holothele "Norte de Santander"

Later, Tom

Reactions: Creative 1


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## Fran (Nov 14, 2010)

Philth said:


> Why?  To me it made more scene then calling them _T. blondi_ like most dealers. (most still do:?)
> 
> Im not a big fan of the sp. "burgundy" name either , as I would rather seen unsubscribed/unknown spiders labeled with a country or local of origin. Example, Holothele "Norte de Santander"
> 
> Later, Tom


Yeah, I much rather preffer a Theraphosa "Sp" , not a "burgundy" crap.


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## Jones0911 (Mar 8, 2013)

Fran I have a question..I'm getting my first Theraposa  (Strimi, to be exact) hopefully very soon.  She's going to be 6-7" inches. I dont drive so getting a 40G tank home is next  to impossible for me. Can I buy a 40 gallon rubber maid bin or something equal to a 40 gallon tank and keep her in that as  long as it I put the proper amount of holes in it?


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## spiderengineer (Mar 8, 2013)

Jones0911 said:


> Fran I have a question..I'm getting my first Theraposa  (Strimi, to be exact) hopefully very soon.  She's going to be 6-7" inches. I dont drive so getting a 40G tank home is next  to impossible for me. Can I buy a 40 gallon rubber maid bin or something equal to a 40 gallon tank and keep her in that as  long as it I put the proper amount of holes in it?



some will argue that 40 gallon is unnecessary and that 10 or 15 gallon is sufficient. not to mention alot of hobbiest use plastic containers in stead of glass because its cheaper and more durable. so yes it should be fine.


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## Jones0911 (Mar 8, 2013)

Fran I have a question..I'm getting my first Theraposa  (Strimi, to be exact) hopefully very soon.  She's going to be 6-7" inches. I dont drive so getting a 40G tank home is next  to impossible for me. Can I buy a 40 gallon rubber maid bin or something equal to a 40 gallon tank and keep her in that as  long as it I put the proper amount of holes in it?


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## spiderengineer (Mar 8, 2013)

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/sho...e-my-T.stirmi-Enclosure&p=2133508#post2133508

here you go this might help you


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## gottarantulas (Mar 9, 2013)

Fran, I thank you. You've definitely educated me about a Genus/species I just recently got into.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gesandte (Mar 12, 2013)

This thread is really helpful, learn a lot. Thanks Fran. Hopefully I will get my first Theraphosa in the near future. It is not easy to buy a true blondi recently

Reactions: Like 1


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## Fran (Nov 20, 2013)

How are your Theraphosa doing? Planing on mating blondi and apophysis soon!

Reactions: Like 1


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