# zoomed's 'wipe out'



## EDED (Jun 6, 2005)

active ingredient: alkyl dimethyl benzyl ammonium chloride

my girlfriend bought it to clean her leopard gecko's cage/decorations.


is it safe long term? to humans and reptiles?  i dont want it to cause cancer years later.

i think im gonna tell her to use rubbing alcohol instead.


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## 8 leg wonder (Jun 6, 2005)

I just use a weak bleach solution, then rinse the enclosure well.


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## skinheaddave (Jun 6, 2005)

That is just the long form of quaternary ammonium -- probably the most commonly used disinfectant in veteranarian clinics because it is incredibly safe as cleaners go.  You still don't want to be breathing it in, of course, but it is better than either bleach or rubbing alcohol.    

Cheers,
Dave


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## EDED (Jun 6, 2005)

thanks fellas


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## Michael Jacobi (Jun 7, 2005)

skinheaddave said:
			
		

> That is just the long form of quaternary ammonium -- probably the most commonly used disinfectant in veteranarian clinics because it is incredibly safe as cleaners go.  You still don't want to be breathing it in, of course, but it is better than either bleach or rubbing alcohol.


I'll have to disagree here. Yes it is safe - go ahead and use it - and yes it is a good cleaner and general disinfectant, but is it effective enough? Truth is, quaternary ammonium-based disinfectants have limited efficacy against gram-negative bacteria, which are prevalent in reptile illness. I know I'm old school, but I've used a 5% bleach solution forever and a day and I still do. What a bleach solution is NOT effective against is organic matter. So always scrub clean cages or items with a generic ole antibacterial soap prior to disinfecting with bleach. With bleach the most important thing is to rinse, rinse again, and then rinse thoroughly.   Then it's safe and effective (and a lot cheaper than reptile products). Please note that I am specifically discussing reptiles here and nothing else. I use only antibacterial dish soap for invert and amphibian cages.

Cheers, Michael


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## xelda (Jun 7, 2005)

I agree with Michael's post.  It's very important to use soap and water as an initial step in cleaning cages.  Soap breaks up the intermolecular forces that make tiny debris (poop and stains) stick to the cage.  Once you get that crap out of the way, the disinfectant is able to work better on the microbial level.  Otherwise, it would be like taking a shower with your clothes on.  You're still dirty afterwards because the clothes got in the way of the actual cleaning.

So with that said, I do want to add that bleach isn't strong enough to kill most coccidian parasites (such as crypto) and other organisms in their oocyst stage.  Only full-strength ammonia (not the same thing as ammonium) is strong enough to do that.  So if you want to be really thorough in your cage cleaning, you should do occasional rotations between bleach, ammonia, and Nolvasan.  Each has its strengths and weaknesses.


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## Wade (Jun 8, 2005)

Quaternary ammonium is great for general cleaning, especially when the same animal is going back into the same cage and you're not trying to contain a known pathogen. When moving a new animal into a used cage, though, I use bleach to disinfect it. People with "dynamic" reptile collections (where new animals are often coming in and out) are going to have to worry about this more than those with "static" collections (where the animals are all long term pets and new specimens rarely enter).

One cheap form of quaternary ammonium is a product called sterimine. It comes in a tablet form, and is sold by resturant supply companies. One tablet dissolved in a gallon of water makes a gallon of disinfectant. At $6 for a jar of 100 tablets, it's not a bad deal at all!

Wade


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