# Akitas aren't dogs



## The Snark

I somehow got connected with a couple who acquired a young akita a few days ago. The precise communication to me was first, how does one put a dog down and second, could I assist in getting the animal put down or maybe take the dog off their hands.

I *knew* 1 akita and have known several others. I have some understanding of their mentality. But nothing prepared me for 'Sadie'. About 5 months old, 60 lbs, untrained, and pure primal akita. Roughly, right at half way between a cougar and an aloof Alsatian.

Sadie started off her new life on a chain in their front yard. A few hours later the yard was a blood bath with Sadie finishing off (eating) the remains of a stray dog. The couple were completely terrified.

I went over to interview Sadie. She accepted my presence in the normal akita way: tolerate. Not really accept. I was a thing. A competitive carnivore. After a few minutes I took the chain off her as she was obviously offended by it. In essence, human saying to animal, 'we own you' and animal thinking 'I own me. you are just controlling me'. Without the chain she selected a secluded place in the garden and lay down. I observed and just tried to empathize. Her attitude was, again, obvious: 'This is bull. I hate the world. Leave me alone. I'll happily fend for myself'.

I talked to Sadie the same as gentling a horse. Pretty much just making noise as I expressed unsaid sentiments: I understand. I respect you. Can we establish a rapport? 

He mannerisms were very similar to that of a wolf but more sedate. Extremely alert, out of her territory and very aware of that and the vulnerability that came with it. Really, just like an antisocial cat that is fully aware it has a lot of weight it can throw around and just wants her space.  

I spent about 7 hours working on the rapport. Just sitting near her. Walking around occasionally. Except for bathroom breaks and a drink of water, she just lay in her chosen space alertly regarding her new situation and disliking everything about it. At the end of the day I got up and said goodbye. She turned her head to stare at me. She had accepted me a little bit.

I informed her owners to put out food and water, don't try to approach her and certainly don't try to chain or exert any control of her. They were afraid and skeptical but did as instructed. Sadie spent the night in her corner of the yard. She wasn't even comfortable enough to roam.

The next day I repeated the scenario. Sadie heard my jeep pull up and was staring at where I would enter the yard. I went over and took my usual place a few feet away from her. She had turned her head away and didn't regard me further. I was accepted and thus became what the primal akita thinks of all humans: a non entity. Live and let live and don't get in each others faces. There was no further progress. In fact, that rapport is about as much as one can expect from an akita. Unless subjugated by very extensive training or breeding one co-exists with them and nothing more.

Her owners saw what I was doing and had watched carefully. At the end of the second day I explained Sadie to them. What rapport I had established was about as good as it will get. I'm not an oppressor or competitor and we can co-exist. Sadie was not and never would be a pet. She may become more amiable but she would never become a companion. Once she has her space and coexisted long enough around people who don't get up in her face she will learn to treat all humans as things other. Non threats... up to a point. If they thought they could handle her then what I did was what they would have to do and continue doing without lapse until she regards all humans in that light. She had to be treated just like they had rented a room to a moody stranger. You live together by mostly avoiding each other and being carefully respectful when you meet.

Would she become playful? She may have playful moments but they would be entirely of her own choosing. She has her own life, her own way of thinking and her own viewpoints on things. One of which she had already demonstrated: Other animals are considered lesser beings and occasionally food. 
Is she dangerous? As dangerous as your average mellowed out bobcat or cougar, but a little higher up on the rational thinking scale. If she bites it is going to mean a trip to the emergency room. She will go as gung ho as a cat or wolf. But she's smart enough to not consider humans edible and the bite will only be a very brutal nasty warning to get out of her face.
What should they feed her? Whatever she wants. Trial and error and give her a wide range of choices. But yes, she will be quite happy to eat raw meat or even kill her own. Giving her a live chicken or two once a week would probably make her quite happy. And yes, she will eat the entire animal including the bones.

I then bit the bullet and laid out their 4 choices. 1. Put her down or return her. Get her out of their lives. 2. Attempt to subjugate her. With animals of her disposition more likely than not there will be a bad news altercation and she will end up being put down anyway. 3. Learn to live with her. Once settled and accepting she will demonstrate more personality than any 10 other dogs. 4. (Gasp) I would be willing to take her off their hands (dog you take this akita to have and to hold, to love and cherish until she or you die of old age or the plague?)

They contacted me two days later. Sadie had taken over the front porch. They asked her to move so they could get the door open and she understood and obliged. That evening Sadie was in the same place on the porch and moved without being asked, then returned to her station. 
"We're going to keep her. No, she's going to keep us. Wish us luck."

Reactions: Like 6


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## tarantulagirl10

Please keep us updated


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## Marijan2

had similar experiences like this with horses, awesome animals nonentheless


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## jarmst4

I had 2 Akitas as a kid. The younger one passed away 2 summers ago. He was with my parents. Those were the best dogs I have ever had. As soon as my kids get a little older I will be getting a new one.


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## The Snark

*Sadie's progress*

I just got back from visiting her and the couple. It is screamingly obvious to me the Norns have had a hand in things, along with shades of the Danse Macabre. The couple has completely altered their mindset towards Sadie. Last night they had their dinner out in the carport near Sadie's porch. Sadie got her dinner served at the same time. They left the doors open and Sadie took a stroll through the entire house before returning to her porch. 

The workers went there today to size up putting in a fence around the entire property. A low fence to keep stray dogs out as they explained to Sadie. Sadie has so far been content to lie oh the porch the entire time. Mostly on her side but now and then on her tummy in alert mode. 

Their dinner this evening was a little unworldly. We have a number of factory chicken farms around here and runts go for 15 to to 30 baht each. About 50 cents to $1. They again had their dinner outside but instead of feeding Sadie in her bowl they opened the box out in the yard and 'got the heck away from the crime scene'. Sadie went on alert, stalked and all 4 were dead in seconds. She then took the corpses off to a corner of the yard one by one and almost glomped them down whole. Then she returned to her porch, to my deranged eye looking a little smug and quite content. The entire chicken caper from stalking to her porked and back to the porch took maybe 10 minutes. I now understand clearly how my akita had put away 40 chickens in one nights raiding.

So far so good. Owners are infatuated with their strange bloodthirsty guest.


PS Oh. One of the bipeds mentioned to me, "Let's hope like hell she never gets the scent of the chicken farm". (It's 15 kilometers away so I'm sure it's safe. Maybe. We hope.)

PPS A thought just came to me. Me other has the ultimate of extremes in her choices of music. As the other morning she chose Doris Day's 'Perhaps' on one computer and PF's 'Careful with that ax, Eugene' simultaneously on the other box. So was there some sort of divine intervention when she chose to play Byrne's 'Psycho Killer' repeatedly over and over this AM as she got ready for work?

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## pitbulllady

Sounds like a typical Akita Inu to me!  As I told you in a PM, I used to breed these dogs.  There probably is no more efficient a killing machine on four legs than an Akita.  They are supreme predators, and one of the first impressions you get from one is that they do not need humans, period. These animals are pure survivalists.  They simply allow us to co-exist with them.  I had a small pack of gray wolves and my Akitas at the same time, and one of the reasons why I had the wolves was because I was involved in a comparative canine behavior study comparing the normal behaviors and conditioned responses of wolves, Carolina Dogs(Dingoes), New Guinea Singing Dogs(Dingoes Lite) and a very man-made breed, the American Pit Bull Terrier.  There was very little difference in the behavior of the Akitas, the Singers and the Carolina Dogs-all just regional variations of a theme, as Dr. I. Lehr Brisbin described them.  The wolves were a breeze to work with by comparison, much more responsive to training and far less prey drive unless actually hungry.  The APBTs were a world apart as far as responsiveness to humans when compared to the Asian primitive dogs.  All of the Dingo-type dogs, from the small NGSD's and Shiba Inus, all the way to the Akita Inu, are very aloof, cat-like animals who prefer NOT to have the company of other canines.  Unlike APBTs, which were bred to FIGHT other dogs, Akitas are hard-wired to EAT other dogs.  They see other dogs as prey items, not pack members, not even as opponents.  Just food, the way most cats see birds or small rodents.

pitbulllady


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## The Snark

PBL. What you have said and are saying seems quite accurate. It's an unscientific opinion I had already reached and Sadie is strongly re-enforcing it.
But what is confusing me is how did these animals diverge to such an extreme from other canines. Not just domesticus but also lupus. It's said they are the primal dogs but how did so many of these traits become missing in other species?

Noted common traits, -generalized- (there are always exceptions): Not pack oriented. Group re-enforcement of pack activities doesn't exist. They don't bark. They don't socialize as any domesticated dog or tamed wolf would. They don't share any of the traits of the lupus, any form of wolf or the dingo. (The dingo hunts in packs and barks a lot though from what I encountered personally, though dingo 'yaps and howls and warbles' are a pretty sophisticated form of communication, not at all like a domestic dog barking.)
I'm really confused. As I started the thread, they really don't appear to be dogs.


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## jarmst4

My younger one never showed any aggression. He was worthless for a guard dog, he was a big teddy bear. Made a great companion thou.


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## catfishrod69

Snark....That story is totally awesome. It sounds like Akitas are the gods of all dogs. I have a timberwolf/akita mix. She is the most gentle dog though. I mean if your a stranger and doing something you shouldnt be, she will for sure let you know. But as far as me, i can do about anything with her. Sometimes i come home from work and she starts "talking" to me. So i go over and get her wound up. Ill give her a push, and she will come running back to me, and very gently take my hands in her mouth and vibrate her teeth against them. Or she will be dieing to be pet, and as im walking by, she will be running along side me, and nudging my hands. She is getting pretty close to her limit in years, and recently had surgery to be spaded, and fix a problem she had with her "utters" dangling down. But she is a really mellow dog, and never barks unless someone is around she dont know. I got her when she was 3 months old for free, and have loved her ever since. One heck of a dog that will be sadly missed when she is gone.


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## pitbulllady

jarmst4 said:


> My younger one never showed any aggression. He was worthless for a guard dog, he was a big teddy bear. Made a great companion thou.


But was your dog an American Akita or an Akita Inu?  The American Akita-the one which typically has a black facial mask and is often of a "pinto" pattern-is the result of crossing the "Shen-Akita" of Japan with American military dogs, usually German Shepherds, during the WWII and post-war occupation years, and the "Shen-Akita" itself was a product of crossing the ORIGINAL Akita with various Mastiff breeds to try to create a "better"(read: more controllable)pit-fighting dog.  It was a step in the evolution of the breed that eventually became known as the Tosa Inu or Tosa Ken, which is largely a Mastiff breed today.  The Akita Inu is a very primitive dog, essentially large Dingo.  In Japan if an Akita retains the black mask after six months of age it is culled(as in killed) because that is seen as a sign of cross-breeding.

Carolina Dogs are the only Dingo variant that barks, but it's more like the yap of a coyote.  The Australian Dingo almost never barks, and I don't think the Singers CAN bark, not a real bark, anyway.  I never heard any of mine bark, though they, along with the Akitas, would make some very strange and un-dog-like sounds, including some decidedly CAT-LIKE sounds, which included purring when content!  They also spent what would seem to be an unusual amount of time grooming and washing themselves, again, more like a cat than a dog...while my bobcat and Maine Coon would sit in the window and BARK their fool cat heads off if someone drove up in the yard that they didn't know!  I had dogs that acted like cats and cats that thought they were dogs, go figure.  But Akitas are a strange lot.  I'm not sure why they don't act like dogs or even wolves.  The non-barking thing is probably a combination of the Dingo background and the fact that Japanese dog-fighters wanted a silent fighter, believing barking or any noise beyond an occasional low growl to be a sign of a coward, a dog that was about to quit, and such dogs got culled from the gene pool immediately.  This probably is the reason why Akitas have a notorious "poker face", too, with expressions that don't vary much no matter what the dog is feeling or what its intentions are.  Their "I-like-you-a-lot" face looks pretty much the same as their "I'm-going-to-kill-you-now" face, making them very difficult to "read", unlike a wolf.

pitbulllady


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## jarmst4

Mine was American. He had that black mask. He was always very quiet and made some really funny noises. I had completely forgot about that. Maybe I can dig up an old picture.


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## The Snark

Curiouser and curiouser. My akita had a black mask and as catfishrod69 described, could be cuddled. But he never reciprocated. Always that poker face. Always sedate and laid back. BUT... where my dogs were we had coyotes and my little scruffy would fiercely defend her terrortory and the akita would never hesitate to go out as her back up. But in akita mode, always silent and stalking. More than a few coyotes met their fate by zeroing in on the little yap yap and not noticing the canine cougar creeping up. That was when I discovered the akita was anything but a large lumbering dog. He was easily as fast and agile as a coyote. I saw him take his first coyote and from stalking to a blur, bowled the coyote over with his chest, bit, shook it and dead. A machine.

That reminded me of a typical trait of his. When I went somewhere and he wanted to go he would stroll to the back of the truck and put his front feet on up on the bed then wait. It was my job to hoist up his back end. Never exerted himself the tiniest bit that he didn't have to. Then he lay down and slept. Never had any interest sticking his head out and catching the breeze.

That is something that is still heartbreaking to me. My little dog got so used to having the akita as a back up it was her demise. We had to put my akita down. Acute intradermal mange, one year before they came out with a treatment for it. None of us gave thought to my little dog. Out she went one night without her back up and was killed by the coyotes.

I recall sitting in a drift boat on the Daly River in Northern Territory, Aus, and observing the dingos for most of the night. Yes, they were independent of each other but still moved in a general group. The noises they made were amazing. One would never have thought 'dog' from just hearing them. Especially that yodeling warble. Somewhat reminiscent of a fast high pitched whale song. That brings to mind hearing a cougar making it's way up a draw I was at the top of, giving me a concert hall effect. I still get a shiver from recalling that unreal unearthly scream. I'm reasonably sure anyone who has ever heard that would get a little edgy just from reading this. Nothing else in nature could possibly compare. 

So, as I have been told mostly from personal opinions, the Japanese installed and instilled some of the Inu traits. That supports quite a bit of their mien. Having lived around one family, old school Samurai would not be tolerant of any frivolity. Pure ruthless business nature and rigid discipline. One thing that is glaringly obvious is how stoic an akita is. As mine was killing a dog it completely ignored two other dogs chewing on it. Methodical and proficient it took one in it's mouth, killed it then turned on the next. No knee jerk reactions at all. That is something I can see from the hundreds of years, millenniums most likely, where akitas were carefully bred and selected to accompany the Samurai.
I have also been told the akita was specially bred and trained as babysitters, their job to kill anyone who approached the baby they were guarding. I discovered my akita had a lethal maternal instinct when I brought it home. It made a beeline for the baby's crib and wouldn't let my wife or I near it.

Just got the confirming call. PBL hit it dead on. Both sire and dame of Sadie are Inu. One bred for several generations here in Thailand and the other imported from Japan about a year ago. Sadie is white and brown. If our camera ever returns from Bangkok, shipped by Mongolian Turtle Post I suspect, I'll post a picture.

I'm going to jump on my bike and go pay Sadie my daily visit. This just keeps getting more interesting. Hope I'm not boring too many people.


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## jecraque

Are you kidding? This thread is fascinating. A neighbor to the house in which I grew up raised show Akitas, which I assume were the American type (though only one, as I recall, had the characteristic mask). She had five (later six) which were very doggy, in any case. The five tolerated each other nicely but were absolutely not other-dog-friendly, which raises some questions about how they were trained and shown around other dogs and other breeds. If I were out with my dog there was a cacophany of big-dog-barking. If it were me alone or with another human they would give a warning bark or two and leave it at that. Definitely seemed to be more companionable than illustrated here, although I noticed they were not often given much attention/affection by their owner as you would expect from someone who raised that many healthy-looking animals. 

Years later I took in a stray with an interesting combination of traits and no idea of his background. Barkless, upright ears, very basenji-like in the face but essentially a Velcro dog, unlike most primitive breeds. Untrainable as can be--at the risk of anthropomorphizing too much, you can see him making the decision to ignore or disobey a command--but in no way an independent creature. 

I remember reading a blog with much interest a few years back that chronicled a couple's adventures trying to sort out the genetics of street dogs in different parts of the world. I would love for someone in my lifetime to do a big honking meta-analysis of dog phylogeny to see if some of these stereotypes and behaviors map out onto lineages. There have been a few interesting trees that have come out for cats, but dogs would be a much bigger undertaking...

---------- Post added 03-03-2013 at 01:55 PM ----------

Whoops, I didn't mean to imply that no one has done trees for dogs. There was a really interesting paper in Nature a few years back that mapped out a few regions in a large number of breeds.


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## The Snark

A little mini comedy yesterday. The couple set out dinner out in the carport with a bowl of dog food for Sadie. She strolled over to the bowl, sat down, stared into it for quite a while then raised her head and stared off into the distance. Eloquently un-stated, 'So where's my chickens?' After about a minute she sighed and philosophically cleaned the bowl.
The back porch and carport belongs to Sadie. It's subtle but obvious. In that area you get observed. Go down the driveway or into the back yard she ignores you. She walked to the edge of the carport and stared at a workman down at the street and gave the akita warning for a few moments: slowly waving her tail from side to side while staring intently. Then went back and lay down.

Marijan2 Horses. Hrrrm. Holes in the corrals into which people pour money. Knotheads. Fertilizer factories. There, my frustrations vented. But you are correct. Occasionally a horse breaks the mold and when they do you can get equine traits similar to an akita's canina ones. I had a pair, a Mutt and Jeff combo at the pack station that were clearly in that field. We called them the conspirators and we could never send green riders out on them without supervision. The most memorable moment was just that. Two riders heading to our cabins in the high country. 8 hours later they returned to the pack station, lost and bewildered. The conspirators, who had gone up that trail over 50 times, knew they had a couple of suckers and headed off up a deer trail. I later tracked where they went. 15 miles out into nowhere.


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## pitbulllady

jecraque said:


> Are you kidding? This thread is fascinating. A neighbor to the house in which I grew up raised show Akitas, which I assume were the American type (though only one, as I recall, had the characteristic mask). She had five (later six) which were very doggy, in any case. The five tolerated each other nicely but were absolutely not other-dog-friendly, which raises some questions about how they were trained and shown around other dogs and other breeds. If I were out with my dog there was a cacophany of big-dog-barking. If it were me alone or with another human they would give a warning bark or two and leave it at that. Definitely seemed to be more companionable than illustrated here, although I noticed they were not often given much attention/affection by their owner as you would expect from someone who raised that many healthy-looking animals.
> 
> Years later I took in a stray with an interesting combination of traits and no idea of his background. Barkless, upright ears, very basenji-like in the face but essentially a Velcro dog, unlike most primitive breeds. Untrainable as can be--at the risk of anthropomorphizing too much, you can see him making the decision to ignore or disobey a command--but in no way an independent creature.
> 
> I remember reading a blog with much interest a few years back that chronicled a couple's adventures trying to sort out the genetics of street dogs in different parts of the world. I would love for someone in my lifetime to do a big honking meta-analysis of dog phylogeny to see if some of these stereotypes and behaviors map out onto lineages. There have been a few interesting trees that have come out for cats, but dogs would be a much bigger undertaking...
> 
> ---------- Post added 03-03-2013 at 01:55 PM ----------
> 
> Whoops, I didn't mean to imply that no one has done trees for dogs. There was a really interesting paper in Nature a few years back that mapped out a few regions in a large number of breeds.


No one has done "trees" on dogs that focus on behavior, and the only detailed "tree" with regards to ancestry has only involved AKC breeds, so dogs like the Carolina Dog and Australian Dingo don't even figure into the picture.
The couple you are referring to who have studied primitive dogs all over the world are probably Ray and Lorna Coppinger.

If you're in NC, that dog you took in was probably a Carolina Dog.  Most of them can bark, but do not choose to do so often.  They are much more pack-oriented than the Asian primitive breeds and some do tend to be "clingy", but are of course stubborn as a mule, as are all primitive dogs.  That genetic code to obey and please a human has not evolved in these dogs, just as it has not evolved in wolves.  Compare that to say, a Pit Bull Terrier or a Border Collie that will literally do ANYTHING you want just because you say so, and it's a whole different beast.  The barking you heard from the Akitas your neighbor had in response to seeing another dog was probably of frustration, of being unable to get to the other dog and kill it.  Had they been out, neither you nor your dog would have known they were around until it was too late.  Showing an Akita is a challenge, to put it mildly, and mainly relies on you being hyper-vigilant not only of your dog, but everyone else's.  Most dog show people know not to let their pooches get close to an Akita, though.  Akitas do not typically lunge and make it obvious that they want to kill another animal; remember, the Japanese slaughtered any Akitas that barked or made a lot of noise, as it was seen as a sign of weakness and cowardice.  Akitas are ambush predators, not unlike a big cat or python.  They will even, as The Snark pointed out, wag their tails and LOOK friendly and inviting to another dog, but that tail wag simply means that they are excited about the prospect of making a kill.  It's fences that frustrate them and lead to barking, although most of mine simply learned early in life that a fence was easily destroyed.  They'd go through nine-gauge cyclone fencing, the same that I used to contain my big cats and wolves, like it was mosquito netting.  I know people love to go on nowadays about how cruel it is to chain a dog, but with some breeds, like Akitas and many APBTs and Catahoulas, it's the only way to contain them.  They have no respect at all for fences.  That's just something else to destroy.

pitbulllady


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## The Snark

Here's another tidbit I would appreciate some info on. During WW2 the Japanese used dogs extensively in occupied areas as guard and patrol dogs. The dogs used were always Alsatians, never akitas. This is from my mother who lived in China during WW2. Matched pairs, soldier with the perfectly trained Alsatian walking side by side all over the region. The explanation being the akita would not train to that mode. My guess is it would be like training the average house cat to leash and attack duty.

My akita: Made growling moaning noise when really happy. Wagging tail, watch out! My mother once saw him leave his station and walk towards the gate, tail wagging a lot. She had the presence of mind to recall he never wagged his tail. She dashed out of the house and intercepted him, chasing off the 2 St. Boneheads that were passing by on the street.

A week later she saw him strolling back home, tail wagging again and somewhat bloody. He had taken exception to one of those St. Bs, chewed through a chain link fence and went to town on it. Luckily he was chased off before the kill, the St. B was apparently so tall and bulky my dog couldn't get a good bite of neck or head and settled for a front leg which he broke. Sadly, that dog had hip dysplasia leaving him with only 1 fully functional leg and had to be put down.
Phone call:
"Yup?"
"Your dog is a total jerk"
"Who did he do this time?"
"I just had to put Stony down, which you are paying for, as well as fixing our fence."
(30 years down the road and she is still giving me crap about that)

I didn't believe he went through a chain link fence at first but he did. That is the hint as to how they kill other dogs so easily. Their mouths are huge, their bite formidable and their neck muscles strong enough so they can take the entire head or neck in their mouth then shake the victim like a rag doll. Instead of darting in for bite and tear over and over they go for that really good chomp then bring that musculature into play.

If someone traces dog lineage by trees, don't tell me. That's one of my blind spots that just leaves me completely confused.


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## The Snark



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## threezero

fascinating thread. I myself have a working line german shepherd and his behaviour is a million times different than say my aunt's shit tze. My uncle in china used to breed tibetan mastiff, not the show stuff, he always goes to and pick the best most primal example. I never really lived around his dogs but from his description sounds very much like the Akita Inu you described exist they seems to be a little on cohabitant-able with other dogs. Anyways fascinating stuff, I'm always into the more "primal" or wolf like dog breed than the cut a fluffy lapdogs. Keep the updates coming! maybe some pictures too!!


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## Balvala

This is pretty incredible. I had the opportunity to grow up with an Akita that was brought over from Japan as a puppy a year before I was born. He was a great dog until he began displaying some extreme moodiness toward everyone in the family around the age of two which began to leave everyone a bit uncomfortable at times and he knew that... After coming in from outside one day, he walked straight back to my father, pee'd and defecated right in front of him, then turned away as if nothing had happened. As soon as Akita was confronted, he began to growl a bit. Being the fairly burly person that my father was and the experience with larger dogs he has had over the years, he took Akita into the other room and made us stay in the kitchen together. He closed all of the doors, put on a work glove and got on all fours in front of a very pissed off Akita. They fought for about an hour, turning over a lounge chair, small table and tipping the couch back. It ended with my father biting Akita on the back of the neck and holding him completely still until he was completely exhausted. 

At the end of it all, dad carried Akita into the family room, turned on the television, allowed Akita to rest up and got us from the kitchen. Of course, I was only a mere infant at the time while this was happening, so this story is based off the identical accounts of what my mother, sister, brother and father have collectively told me, however after that experience Akita never attempted to display a sense of dominance, never tackled anyone intentionally (not counting when I was four and too weak to keep him from jumping on me out of excitement,) never even bit me when I was a slightly evil child after he stole my pacifier, and I had grasped his lip in rage trying to get it back. He followed dad around everywhere and never had a problem with strangers or other dogs at any time.

Anyway, I miss him dearly. Akita was the with us until I turned nine years of age. After the second day we moved into our new home, he unfortunately ran off to pass on, (something that I comfort myself with saying over other possibilities due to him becoming very ill at that time.) 

Recently, I've been attempting to search for another dog for my father to raise him out of the incredibly stressful, financial and health related issues we've all been experiencing. After happening across this thread, I'm going to be a bit adamant about pushing for an Akita puppy after some reminiscing and flipping through old Polaroid photos of when we were younger.

Thank you for this, truly. Once I return home, I'll upload the last decent photo I could find of him before we moved.

Take care and good luck,

-Andrew


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## The Snark

*Akita ancestor*

Meet the Akita's antedeluvian ancestry. This creature is, more or less, a near pure blood Thai dog. Upon discovering this I have been letting him write his own book - leaving him untrained, and carefully observing him for unusual traits. 

Start with food. He won't touch dog or cat food. My boss took to cooking gourmet meals for him. BBQ chicken, braised pork and you name it. He would occasionally take a little nibble but was mostly uninterested. He will put away a bowl of white rice every day though. 
Even though he barely seemed to eat anything he gained weight. It wasn't until I was sitting on the porch putting my shoes on and he got up in my face that we discovered his favorite diet: frogs and crabs. His breath would have blown a buzzard off a shitwagon. He also is happy to scarf chicken as long as it's raw. So much for the boss's epicurean food preparation bent.

How he eats. He only eats with his incisors. He never chews with his molars until the incisors have done their job. Thus he won't chew bones or chew toys. When he takes a bit of food in his bowl he goes out into the yard, nibbles it down then returns for the next piece. Privacy is paramount. As near as I can figure, this is a common behavior in some of the big cats and dingos. When prey is taken down they take pieces off by themselves. They aren't pack oriented at all.

An odd trait. No teaching him to sit required. If he wants to be petted he walks up in front of you and sits down. 

Hunting. This one has left me dumbfounded. About once a week we have been finding the remains of a bird in our yard. I have seen him chase birds but this morning I saw the real deal. He bolted just like a cat straight at the bird. The bird took off. In a blur he turned his head, slashed sideways and caught it. While he misses far more birds than he catches, it's pretty impressive.
Now things start to add up. When playing 'shake the rag' his strength and power is misleading and far greater than his size belies. I have a grip of iron. Years down the road read carpal tunnel syndrome in 8 places. Usually by the third or forth sudden shake of his head he can jerk the rag out of my hand. His speed, catching a bird on the wing, that lateral slash-bite and the power now explains to me how my akita was able to easily kill so many dogs. Get their neck or head in his jaws and snap goes the spine. While our Thai model is a compact version of the akita, he doesn't look built for speed which is very misleading. The closest analogy I can think of is a rattler biting off to one side. An innate genetic thing that sets these akitas and their ancestry apart. That sideways zap has already cost the boss 2 pairs of pants and a skirt. She goes out in the yard and plays tag. When he gets really excited he will dash past, take a bite-shake and rip! But he is precise and accurate, never getting her leg. After the split second garment kill he lets go.

Social. With people he is aloof and casual. But with other dogs he is very social. He has two friends down the road a ways that he visits every day. They chum it up very well. He tries to get both of them to dive into the canals after frogs but they don't seem to have a clue as to what he is doing. 







The almost clockspring tail. When 'on the job' hunting, up it comes.






Pet me?






Very typical akita. The yellow eyed emotionless stare.






Fresh from hunting frogs in the canal Styx with a reek bad enough to put Charon off his lunch.






Other aspects. He accepts being petted on the head and seems to like it. Touch him anywhere else and he tolerates but becomes reserved. He can be picked up and accepts that but will become aloof afterwards for a few minutes. He frightens the crap out of us as he is constantly going out on the road but his ears are fully functional radar. Without ever looking he knows exactly where cars are and deftly dodges them. His acute hearing is most noticeable when hunting. He gets close to the canal, hears a frog croak and slowly creeps up on it. When the frog jumps he has it pinpointed. He catches so many he sometimes comes home in the morning with a pot belly.


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## pitbulllady

Somewhere along the line, that dog has some American Akita in him.  He looks like a mini version of a pinto American Akita as it is!  Of course the Southeast Asian primitive Dingo-type dogs are the ancestors of the true native Japanese breeds as well as the Carolina Dogs and other true native US breeds.  In fact, the most recent DNA research has shown that the CHIHUAHUA is basically a miniature Carolina Dog, rather than a Toy breed that originated from dogs brought over from Europe, and the Xolo(those "Chupacabra dogs")are Carolina Dogs with the hairless gene mutation.  You can read the results of this study here: http://www.examiner.com/article/chi...ginated-america-and-asia-new-research-reveals .  This lays to rest once and for all the claim by some that the Carolina Dogs are just mutts that are descended from ordinary European-origin breeds like German Shepherds that displayed atavistic tendencies over many generations of running feral.

pitbulllady


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## The Snark

Admitting how slow I can be at times here... It wasn't until you pointed out to me this version of Thai dog was the akita ancestor that I even equated his looks to the akita. This make and model is somewhat unusual here but by no means unique. Add that to we are so far into the rice fields here it would be one hefty coincidence that an American pinto akita had strolled through and became this things ancestor. Without serious outlay of $$$ is there any way of determining if the akita got bred back into his lineage?
I would mention one thing. His ears usually lie back in unakita style. They perked like they are pictured every time he heard the camera beep.

Oh yes. A very unakita trait. This guy does bark. It's rare but is definitely a territorial warning. The tone and volume is about that of a large alsatian.

Just how in heck did the chihuahua get connected into this genetic soup???

PS Thanks much for that link. It is not only amazing it clearly demonstrates the Asian migration that took place. While humans get moved about and are too mobile, their canine partners go wild and remain in a given location. What is boggling my mind is the adaptation and evolution that produced the Chihuahua. Has anyone made a timeline of this?



---------- Post added 03-16-2013 at 05:37 AM ----------

I should get a Sadie update in here. Start with an overwhelming desire to strangle a certain sister in law. I got the pics of our zeedle then she got her mitts on the camera and pfut. Maybe it just likes traveling between here and Bangkok by turtle post.

Sadie is now completely boring akita. She owns the yard. The porch and carport is her throne room and royal reception hall. The humans are her mildly amusing courtiers. The back yard is about 6 inches deep in chicken feathers. During the day her sole activity is occasionally raising her head to offer some regal disdain of the world about her. At night she goes out and strolls the perimeter of her domain, sometimes making that musical moaning call.


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## Shannen

Oh boy your so far off, akitas are very much pack dogs. They can live in harmony with other dogs and cats. They are strong and intelligent, but not at all killing machines that don’t love humans as you implied. You might want to really get to know an Akita they just might change your life.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Teal

Shannen said:


> Oh boy your so far off, akitas are very much pack dogs. They can live in harmony with other dogs and cats. They are strong and intelligent, but not at all killing machines that don’t love humans as you implied. You might want to really get to know an Akita they just might change your life.


This thread is several years old (;
And also, Akitas are guardian dogs. They are known for intolerance of other animals and suspicion of strangers. They love THEIR people, yes. They CAN be okay around other animals... individual tolerance varies. But one should never expect an Akita to love everyone and everything.

(P.S. I adore the breed. I don't require nor expect my dogs to be friendly with other animals and I appreciate guardian breeds, so Akita temperament is just fine by me).


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## Shannen

Teal said:


> This thread is several years old (;
> And also, Akitas are guardian dogs. They are known for intolerance of other animals and suspicion of strangers. They love THEIR people, yes. They CAN be okay around other animals... individual tolerance varies. But one should never expect an Akita to love everyone and everything.
> 
> (P.S. I adore the breed. I don't require nor expect my dogs to be friendly with other animals and I appreciate guardian breeds, so Akita temperament is just fine by me).


I think we are on same page I adore my Akita and love his qualities he’s text book Akita

Reactions: Like 1


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## Jelt110

We've two American Akitas, 4 and 5 (3/8 related).   First dogs we had that were related. Very sweet and gentle to the family, babies (next door toddlers stick thier hands through the fence and they will sniff and lick).  But they kill squirrels, birds, mice, possum.  Confounding-ly, when a squirrel we were rehabbing in the house got loose, they did not chase it.   They knew it was not wild game.  This illustrates how akitas can grasp subtle nuances.   They are very nosy and observant.  They like to be included.   My boy will come over and watch me if I am fixing something- the garbage disposal, my bicycle, doing landscaping or planting tomatoes.  

Akita are _very_ observant and smart.   They were bred for centuries to think independently when the 'owners' were away.   They would be left to watch the children & babies while the adults farmed the fields.  This is innate, and needs to be understood.  They show minimal reaction to pain and fear, except to the family/pack alpha, and this has to be understood.   Strong scolding for bad behavior is not productive.   A gentle swat on the nose and a firm "no" is a respectful reprimand that the Akita _will_ understand.  But they will not appear to be shamed like most domestic dogs would after a rebuke-  any more and they will get resentful and angry.   It's like how a mody teenager reacts:  they understand, but don't want to admit it.  This is actually a survival mechanism of wild dogs: don't show weakness.  

But akitas need affection and interaction from the family/alphas as much as they will tolerate.  This is pack bonding, and what makes for the fierce Akita loyalty:  they need to be treated more likeIa family member than a pet.   Yes, you can set firm boundaries, and the Akita will pick these up Pronto.  They are smart, but they think independently.  Patience and positive reinforcement are the best way.  Patience is paramount in waiting for the Akita to respond to a command, and you have to let go the frustration of being made to wait.   The Akita will let you know it does not want to do something, but when it decides to listen to you, it must be rewarded.   Affection and praise are the best.  

Our boy, 100 lbs+, will often turn his nose up at treats, but is always up for scratches, rubs, kisses, and such.   They will get spoiled to some degree, but this reinforces how much they value their family.   New people must be cautious coming in contact with family members until the akitas have time to see that the family approves of this---  the Akita switches from gentle family member to serious guard dog in an instant, without showing much change in expression. 

Akitas are subtle, family loyal independent thinkers, but they are mostly  intolerant of other dogs.   Strong hunters, they are deceptively quick (actually rather lean under all that thick fur), and quiet stalkers.  

Having our akitas has been an exercise in time and patience, but it has made me learn to cultivate this virtue.  The reward is a beautiful animal that is more like a child than a dog, but that can be home alone regularly and excellent watchdog.

Reactions: Like 3


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## The Snark

Slow. On. The. Uptake. Some akitas acting like their primal ancestors. In the horse world they are called throwbacks. Self explanatory. Duh.


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## gyrfalcon

This is a very old thread but I might as well add to it:

Japanese and American Akitas are the same initial breed regardless of what some people and organizations may think. Only very recent Japanese's breeding initiatives have started restricting the Akita patterns and dispositions. The Japanese are making a much more docile and weaker breed in my opinion; but they're changing the breed. Not the US and other Akita breeders...

Here is a picture of the emperor of japan with black masked Akitas that are not accepted in the current Japanese breeding standard. The breed was not corrupted or mixed with other dog breeds in the USA. At least not any more than it was in Japan...







Akita's are dogs.  They're just very INDEPENDENT thinkers and take a special sort of person to bond and work with.

If you have issues with an Akita please reach out to an Akita rescue group like :

Midwest Akita Rescue Society (MARS)

Akitas can be very dangerous to anyone when they're not socialized and trained properly. Shelter workers have been killed by Akitas because they were unfamiliar with the breed and the dog had social/emotional issues from bad owners... The people who bought Sadie definitely seem like a BAD fit for an Akita. They let the dog walk all over them and have no understanding of the breed. They're sitting on a ticking time bomb of their own making. Maybe Sadie will accept them... but what happens when a 6 year old kid runs through the yard or comes into their house?

This breed has a lot of important caveats owners need to be aware of, and deal with.

Reactions: Thinking 1


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