# The Tarantula Keeping Pyramid



## Tenevanica (Feb 13, 2016)

I've been keeping invertebrates for a while now, but I haven't kept many T's. If you check my profile, I only keep two species at the time of writing. (Soon to be more... Rocky Mountain Reptile Expo, here I come!) You could say I am still a "beginner" tarantula hobbyist, though I am not a beginner in terms of my tarantula knowledge. I've decided to make what I am calling a "Tarantula Keeping Pyramid," which essentially breaks up Tarantula keeping into separate "tiers" so people of all experiences can see which new tarantula is right for them, and what their "next step" would be.

Each tier has several listed genera. Once you have gained experience by successfully keeping a few of the genera listed at your current tier, you are considered ready to move up and keep the T's at the next tier. Please note that not every genus will be listed here, and T's that are at the same level of difficulty as the listed genera can be considered "in that tier."

Tier 1: _Brachypelma, Grammostola, Aphonopelma, Chromatopelma, Euthalus._
Tier 2: _Avicularia, Psalmopoeus, Acanthoscurria, Hapalopus, Nhandu._
Tier 3: _Chilobrachys, Pterinochilus, Ephebopus, Ceratogyrus._
Tier 4: _Heteroscodra, Theraphosa, Poecilotheria.
_
This pyramid is nowhere near perfect, so if anyone has any suggestions as to how I should rearrange this, or has any suggestions in terms of a relatively well known genus that should be added to the listed thread, please tell me. This is mainly for my personal use, so I'm sure most people will disagree with me here.
Please add your experiences and personal ratings to this thread so we can improve the pyramid.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Helpful 2


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## EulersK (Feb 13, 2016)

As you said, many people will disagree, so I'm sure you don't mind input 

Overall, I certainly agree. However, I'd personally rank Chromatopelma and Euthalus higher on the list, specifically in tier 2. Chromatopelma due to their speed, and Euthalus due to the utter lack of information and abundance of misinformation on the genus. As for Heteroscodra, I'd rank them as a tier 4. I've only owned a couple H. maculata, but between their fragility, speed, and venom, I'd rank them up there (if not beyond) Poecilotheria.

But in all honesty, I wouldn't be opposed to linking newbies to this thread at all. I wouldn't starkly disagree with anything you've said, my only input would be nitpicking.

Out of my experience, here is where I would rank what I've owned:
Tier 1: _Brachypelma, Grammostola, Aphonopelma, Nhandu_
Tier 2: _Avicularia, Psalmopoeus, Acanthoscurria, Hapolopus, Chromatopelma, Euthalus_
Tier 3: _Chilobrachys, Pterinochilus, Lasiodora, Ceratogyrus, Holothele, Theraphosa _(omit _T. blondi_)
Tier 4: _Heteroscodra, Poecilotheria_

Reactions: Like 2


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## Tenevanica (Feb 13, 2016)

EulersK said:


> As you said, many people will disagree, so I'm sure you don't mind input
> 
> Overall, I certainly agree. However, I'd personally rank Chromatopelma and Euthalus higher on the list, specifically in tier 2. Chromatopelma due to their speed, and Euthalus due to the utter lack of information and abundance of misinformation on the genus. As for Heteroscodra, I'd rank them as a tier 4. I've only owned a couple H. maculata, but between their fragility, speed, and venom, I'd rank them up there (if not beyond) Poecilotheria.
> 
> ...


I don't disagree with you here at all. Some aspects of tarantula husbandry are very opinion based in terms of difficulty. I'll move Heteroscodra up because after reading more about the genus, I agree with your statement about speed, fragility, and venom. I'll leave the others where they are because I won't be able to edit this post after 24 hours, and I don't want to mix it up too much. I'll also add one of your third tear suggested genus' just to keep the "pyramid" shape I guess. Thanks for the input!


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## EulersK (Feb 13, 2016)

I'm really hoping some more experienced keepers will add in to the tier 4 slot! I've only started keeping those myself this past year, so I have very little experience on the matter. I almost wanted to say "any sling worth more than $100"!

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Tenevanica (Feb 13, 2016)

EulersK said:


> I'm really hoping some more experienced keepers will add in to the tier 4 slot! I've only started keeping those myself this past year, so I have very little experience on the matter. I almost wanted to say "any sling worth more than $100"!


So true! Any experienced person, please speak out. We need your advise and consideration!


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## Olan (Feb 13, 2016)

You might have to split up pterinochilus. OBT in tier 4, other Pterinochilus stays tier 3. Add in S. calceatum, in tier 4 or make a tier 5 for this species alone.


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## Sarkhan42 (Feb 13, 2016)

Personally I'd put Lasiodora as tier 1 or 2. They're pretty hardy and simple to keep and tend not to be too mean, not to mention they're good eaters. Definitely not on remotely the same level as Theraphosa in my mind. Honestly you may want to consider the placement of Psalmopoeus as well, not because they're difficult to keep per say, but they can be quite fast and defensive on occasion. Move them up a tier maybe? 

My overall suggestion would be to make more then just one pyramid, and make criteria pyramids. For example one that covers speed, or care requirements ect because as is while its a fantastic idea its just very difficult to break up.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Envoirment (Feb 13, 2016)

Sarkhan42 said:


> My overall suggestion would be to make more then just one pyramid, and make criteria pyramids. For example one that covers speed, or care requirements ect because as is while its a fantastic idea its just very difficult to break up.


That would be good. You could have a point-based system (tier 1= 1 point, tier 2 = 2 points and so on), then combine the points together of a genus' ranking in multiple pyramids (speed, venom potency, temperment, uriticating hair severity, environmental requirements etc) to get an overall ranking. Something like that would be very useful.

Reactions: Like 1


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## EulersK (Feb 13, 2016)

I actually think this is a really good idea... it's obviously not an exact science, but it is something that I would have found immensely useful when I first started. My second T was a P. irminia. He lived to maturity and even fathered a sac, but it was a bad idea that spawned from just a couple people saying how easy they were to care for.


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## Chris LXXIX (Feb 13, 2016)

When it comes to arboreals_ Psalmopoeus cambridgei _are the best starter arboreals for me. They are hardy, good eaters, easy to care, they grow like weed... there's never a problem with those.

"Avics", on the other hand, require certain conditions that should always respected but that not everyone follow, leading to lots of "I lost my Avic" threads. Genus _Avicularia _shouldn't been suggested to beginners without the basic 'know how'.

_Psalmopoeus cambridgei _(not _Psalmopoeus irminia_, more on the high strung mode in general) on the other hand, yes, as first arboreal. If someone is scared by speed at the end, arboreals aren't his/her league. Besides, "Avics" are very speedy as well.

_Chromatopelma cyaneopubescens _is another beginner one. I have never saw a threat display from one of those in 25 years, unlike some 'Grammo' and 'Brachy'. They are only run & hide.

genus _Nhandu _IMO isn't so much different from genus _Acanthoscurria _(i prefer those last btw) so i will put those with "Genics" tough they are a joke when it comes to temperament if compared to a pissed off _Phormictopus cancerides_.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Tenevanica (Feb 13, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> When it comes to arboreals_ Psalmopoeus cambridgei _are the best starter arboreals for me. They are hardy, good eaters, easy to care, they grow like weed... there's never a problem with those.
> 
> "Avics", on the other hand, require certain conditions that should always respected but that not everyone follow, leading to lots of "I lost my Avic" threads. Genus _Avicularia _shouldn't been suggested to beginners without the basic 'know how'.
> 
> ...


If have to disagree with what you said about Avics. I think they are the perfect starter arboreal. I've been keeping an A. versicolor sling for a while now, and I haven't had a problem. (I'm new in terms of the actual husbandry ad tarantulas.) The thoughts on Avicularia seem to be mixed. They are either recommended to beginners or labeled for only the experts to keep.


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## Tenevanica (Feb 13, 2016)

Envoirment said:


> That would be good. You could have a point-based system (tier 1= 1 point, tier 2 = 2 points and so on), then combine the points together of a genus' ranking in multiple pyramids (speed, venom potency, temperment, uriticating hair severity, environmental requirements etc) to get an overall ranking. Something like that would be very useful.


Like a power ranking for tarantulas? That doesn't sound half bad. Good idea!


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## EulersK (Feb 13, 2016)

Literally the only reason I put the likes of GBB in tier 2 was due to their speed and erratic movement. Their care is by far one of the easiest I've ever kept. I feel like newbies get a GBB as one of their first T's and just weren't ready for the speed. But as Envoirment said, multiple tiers would help.

I'll also join the "avics aren't for beginners" team. I live in an extremely dry climate, and my avic is proving to be more work than any other tarantula in terms of humidity.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Chris LXXIX (Feb 13, 2016)

Tenevanica said:


> If have to disagree with what you said about Avics. I think they are the perfect starter arboreal. I've been keeping an A. versicolor sling for a while now, and I haven't had a problem. (I'm new in terms of the actual husbandry ad tarantulas.) The thoughts on Avicularia seem to be mixed. They are either recommended to beginners or labeled for only the experts to keep.


In general (and i was talking/i'm talking in general) if you give 100 genus _Avicularia _T's (you name one) to 100 beginners and 100 _Psalmopoeus cambridgei _to other 100 beginners (issues involving all of a sudden death, that "SADS" thing, and other stuff) IMO troubles would occur on the "Avic" side. 

The only reason why "Avics" were/are suggested to beginners is probably due to the temperament; bites from those are very rare, they aren't defensive (not mentioning now the single _Theraphosidae _temperament of course).

There's people who do not provide cross ventilation nor dry substrate = Dead "Avic".

_Psalmopoeus cambridgei _on the other hand, let's say, tolerate more some beginner mistake and they are, IMO, more hardy as _Theraphosidae_. I view "Avics" as delicate _Theraphosidae_, just like _Lampropelma violaceopes _(completely different care/T's of course).

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Envoirment (Feb 13, 2016)

Tenevanica said:


> Like a power ranking for tarantulas? That doesn't sound half bad. Good idea!


Yes! Given the amount of experienced keepers on the board, I'm sure a good comprehensive list on at least the genus levels could be made. Although perhaps replace venom potency with bite severity - which'll take into account medically significant venom (such as the Poecilotheria genus), as well as large fangs which can do significant mechanical damage (Theraphosa). I think the tiers should be something like:

Bite severity (Tier 1:Aphonopelma, Tier 4: Lasiodora/Theraphosa, Tier 5: Poecilotheria*)
Speed (Tier 1: Aphonopelma, Tier 3: Chromatopelma, Tier 5: Poecilotheria)
Temperament (Tier 1: Docile , Tier 2: Defensive, Tier 3: Defensive/Skittish, Tier 4: Aggressive Tier 5: Aggressive/Skittish)
Hardiness/How difficult it is to look after (Tier 1: Chromatopelma, Tier 3: Avicularia, Tier 5:Megaphobema/Theraphosa)
Uritcating hairs severity (Tier 5: Theraphosa/Acanthoscurria)**

* Only genus I've seen reports of people going to hospital for. 
** Doesn't apply to old world tarantulas, so could the score of new world ones. Perhaps have it as an optional category?

That's just a rough example and I haven't owned a bunch of those genera - just adding them in as examples based on what I've read.


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## Tenevanica (Feb 13, 2016)

Envoirment said:


> Yes! Given the amount of experienced keepers on the board, I'm sure a good comprehensive list on at least the genus levels could be made. Although perhaps replace venom potency with bite severity - which'll take into account medically significant venom (such as the Poecilotheria genus), as well as large fangs which can do significant mechanical damage (Theraphosa). I think the tiers should be something like:
> 
> Bite severity (Tier 1:Aphonopelma, Tier 4: Lasiodora/Theraphosa, Tier 5: Poecilotheria*)
> Speed (Tier 1: Aphonopelma, Tier 3: Chromatopelma, Tier 5: Poecilotheria)
> ...


I'd love to put that in a seperate thread. People post about their ratings of species they've kept, and a link to this thread is provided so they can compare it on the pyramid.

Here are some rankings for the two species I own:

_Aphonopelma chalcodes_
Bite severity: 1
Speed: 1
Temperament: 1
Hardiness: 1
Urticating hairs: 1
Overall Tier: 1

_Avicularia versicolor _
Bite severity: 1
Speed: 3
Temperament: 1
Hardiness: 3
Urticating hairs: 1
Overall Tier: 2

Reactions: Like 1


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## viper69 (Feb 13, 2016)

Your T system or as many others call it a "ladder system", is a nice redundant idea. I think the internet is great for info, the problem is, how will people find your info easily? That's always the problem with internet info, lots of it out there, most of it, never read.

Regarding Avics. They are very simple to keep, but have a somewhat narrow range of husbandry tolerance compared to many other NW and OW species. I would put them as Tier 2. However you don't need to be an "expert" to keep them at all. One needs to pay attention to detail and do A LOT of research, research, research.


Regarding Urticating Setae-- What does the number represent? Each person's genetics is different, and thus each person's response is different to the setae. Rating the severity of them is EXTREMELY subjective.

How many people will you sample to determine what the rating should be for any of your parameters?  For example, I've owned quite a few A versicolor, I wouldn't give them a temperament rating of 1, I'd give them a 2. Again subjective as the above.

Have fun w/this!

Reactions: Helpful 1


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## Bugmom (Feb 13, 2016)

I feel like something like this would get huge quickly considering all the different species in the hobby. There's the ones already mentioned, but also:
Megaphobema
Harpactira
Augacephalus
Omothymus
Cyclosternum
Haplocosmia
Lasiodora
Iridopelma
Pterinopelma
Heterothele
Lampropelma
Thrixopelma

Reactions: Agree 1


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## EulersK (Feb 13, 2016)

I think we should start a thread asking for information presented exactly as Tenevanica did a couple posts back. Take the info from as many people as possible (or whoever is willing to report), average out the scores, and report from there. Not the most scientific process, but again, this is all subjective anyway.

We would need to stay away from species and only focus on genus, because that would get overwhelming.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## EulersK (Feb 13, 2016)

I'm going to start putting together an Excel spreadsheet and start up a new thread tonight after I get home from work. I can even make graphs to represent individual genera to make it easier to read. That being said, here's what I have so far in terms of categories:
-Speed
-Venom potency
-Environment control
-Temperament (defensive vs. skittish will be involved here)
-Durability

Please throw in your ideas! The more tiers we have, the better the average will turn out to be. We don't want redundancies, of course - this is why I combined the tiers for defensiveness and skittishness (is that a word?). I also left out urticating setae due to viper's point. We're already being subjective with our opinions, we can't bring in genetic factors. Not to mention, I don't believe that the setae make any difference in how difficult the T is to care for.

I think each category should only have 4 tiers, lest this get too specific. Beginner, Intermediate, Experienced, and Advanced.

Reactions: Like 2


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## dementedlullaby (Feb 13, 2016)

Envoirment said:


> Speed (Tier 1: Aphonopelma, Tier 3: Chromatopelma, Tier 5: Poecilotheria)


Don't forget Tapinauchenius! Tapis are fast little demons. Maybe Tier 6 lol.



I think the most important thing to do instead of a pyramid is just proper research. I don't find Avics hard to care for. Just cross ventilate the enclosure and give 'em a water dish. It's actually very simple. Avics may have been my first tarantulas but I'd say go for a NW like a Brachy or Aphono first. Just to get used to how tarantulas move.


I love my Avics but the early days comprised of rounding those suckers up more often than I'd like to admit. Usually a terrestrial will only move in one dimension. Arboreals are ready to bounce off the wall if given the chance. Probably would have been less stressful to just buy a Brachy first. Just my 2 cents.


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## BobBarley (Feb 13, 2016)

I think there should be more than one "system" for tiers.  One based on venom, one on defensiveness, one on speed, etc.  many tiers for each system.  For example, taps are generally said to be faster than psalmos but their venom is generally said to be weaker.


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## Tenevanica (Feb 13, 2016)

EulersK said:


> I'm going to start putting together an Excel spreadsheet and start up a new thread tonight after I get home from work. I can even make graphs to represent individual genera to make it easier to read. That being said, here's what I have so far in terms of categories:
> -Speed
> -Venom potency
> -Environment control
> ...


I was gonna start a thread like that, but I'll let you do it because you seem more capable with your spreadsheets and whatnot. That was what I was thinking in terms of having 4 tiers for each category and then ranking the tarantula on the pyramid overall by averaging the ratings given to the T in its categories. Basically the same thing I did in my last post on this thread. Would you do me a favor and link back to this thread as well? Thanks!

Also, you should call "venom potency" "bite severity," as venom is not the only danger in a T bite. The fangs can sever tendons and cause mechanical damage.


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## johnny quango (Feb 13, 2016)

EulersK said:


> I think we should start a thread asking for information presented exactly as Tenevanica did a couple posts back. Take the info from as many people as possible (or whoever is willing to report), average out the scores, and report from there. Not the most scientific process, but again, this is all subjective anyway.
> 
> We would need to stay away from species and only focus on genus, because that would get overwhelming.


Although I tend to agree with the idea as a concept I can see major problems arising no matter which way it's looked at here is what I mean if it's done as species specific it throws up too many unavailable answers to what seem like simple questions. Take Avicularia as an example there are too many undescribed species that little information exists about.

So I like you would've thought ok lets do this by genus but then this throws up even worse problems imo, it still carries the same issue as above only things get a little more complex because you would be constantly splitting it up as there are species within the same genus that imo would be different tiers. My 4 Pamphobeteus spp spring to mind 3 of them my machalla and 2 nigricolors are typical Pamphobeteus hungry skittish flickers whereas my Pamphobeteus sp mascara is calm, tolerant and hungry which from the little bits of information out there seems to be typical of this species so imo that would be tier 1 and the others 2/3 depending on opinion. 

Also look at bugmom's reply near the end it states Thrixopelma do a little research into these and you will see the issue the range of behaviour is all over the place and it's not just individuals either, T cyaneolum is as tolerant/docile as E sp red whereas T ockerti is somewhat skittish and feisty so to experienced keepers they would probably be tier 1 but to a new keeper the T ockerti would be tier 2 and it would all be opinion based and I highly doubt we would all agree

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## EulersK (Feb 13, 2016)

Tenevanica said:


> I was gonna start a thread like that, but I'll let you do it because you seem more capable with your spreadsheets and whatnot. That was what I was thinking in terms of having 4 tiers for each category and then ranking the tarantula on the pyramid overall by averaging the ratings given to the T in its categories. Basically the same thing I did in my last post on this thread. Would you do me a favor and link back to this thread as well? Thanks!
> 
> Also, you should call "venom potency" "bite severity," as venom is not the only danger in a T bite. The fangs can sever tendons and cause mechanical damage.


Oh yeah, we definitely need to link back to this thread. If you want to make the thread, go ahead, I didn't mean to take the wind out of your sails. Not my intention at all!

Noted on the venom, good point.

@Johnny
Hence the averages. We've all said that this is very subjective numerous times. The point isn't to have an exact science, the point is to give newbies a place to start.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Tenevanica (Feb 13, 2016)

EulersK said:


> Oh yeah, we definitely need to link back to this thread. If you want to make the thread, go ahead, I didn't mean to take the wind out of your sails. Not my intention at all!
> 
> Noted on the venom, good point.
> 
> ...


Thanks! I'll go ahead and start the article up in the next hour or so.

*EDIT: *I just posted the thread. Check it out, and tell me if I need to make any changes to it.


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## tonypace2009 (Feb 14, 2016)

Envoirment said:


> Yes! Given the amount of experienced keepers on the board, I'm sure a good comprehensive list on at least the genus levels could be made. Although perhaps replace venom potency with bite severity - which'll take into account medically significant venom (such as the Poecilotheria genus), as well as large fangs which can do significant mechanical damage (Theraphosa). I think the tiers should be something like:
> 
> Bite severity (Tier 1:Aphonopelma, Tier 4: Lasiodora/Theraphosa, Tier 5: Poecilotheria*)
> Speed (Tier 1: Aphonopelma, Tier 3: Chromatopelma, Tier 5: Poecilotheria)
> ...


I agree 100% with the issue of bite severity being a little misleading. Also l think the term aggressive should be left out and replaced with highly defensive. Besides we are trying to grow the hobby not scare people away.

Reactions: Like 2


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## EulersK (Feb 14, 2016)

tonypace2009 said:


> I agree 100% with the issue of bite severity being a little misleading. Also l think the term aggressive should be left out and replaced with highly defensive. Besides we are trying to grow the hobby not scare people away.


Agreed. After all, these are defensive creatures, not offensive. The final report will certainly reflect this.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Storm76 (Feb 14, 2016)

Not to put your idea down, but this "Tier" system feels like someone trying to classify living, breathing animals into some form of MMO graphic.

My points here are:

* 1
People are different, have different comfort levels, experience and some even lack common sense. 

* 2
Having kept a certain species for a couple months doesn't mean anything on towards that end. There are people out there that could literally start out with a Poecie if they wanted to, while others would already be knee-deep in problems with an Euathlus sp. "red" / "fire" / "yellow" which are pretty much the epitome of tolerant and easy to care for!

Bottom line here is that while it's respectable trying something like this, all of us have so many different opinions and experiences made with our animals, that it's unlikely we could find a consensus everyone can agree to. 

If you want to do this despite that, that's fine. In that case I'd suggest preparing a huge excel sheet, set it up so it views sorted after your categories and people can get a "general" idea perhaps.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Tenevanica (Feb 14, 2016)

Storm76 said:


> Not to put your idea down, but this "Tier" system feels like someone trying to classify living, breathing animals into some form of MMO graphic.
> 
> My points here are:
> 
> ...


It's not about everyone agreeing, it's about getting a general crowd consensus by averaging scores. This is meant to be a guide, not something specific. It is supposed to help the broadest range of people, while generally ignoring out-liars and exceptions. I understand your concerns of playing down living animals, but this isn't supposed to be a set classification, it's supposed to be a guide. New keepers should be informed about the exceptions of this guide, and should use more than just the guide to decide which tarantula is right for them.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Storm76 (Feb 14, 2016)

Sidenote: Have Tarantulas? Click here to rate your experiences with tarantula genuses!

To help: Please replace "_genuses_" with "_genera_". 

As for the project: I understand your goal, I'm just of the opinion that over time you will received probably lots of conflicting "ratings" for species. Like I mentioned in my former post everyone has a different level of where we feel comfortable with an animal in our care.


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## Tenevanica (Feb 14, 2016)

Storm76 said:


> Sidenote: Have Tarantulas? Click here to rate your experiences with tarantula genuses!
> 
> To help: Please replace "_genuses_" with "_genera_".
> 
> As for the project: I understand your goal, I'm just of the opinion that over time you will received probably lots of conflicting "ratings" for species. Like I mentioned in my former post everyone has a different level of where we feel comfortable with an animal in our care.


Yeah, didn't catch that, mental error. I'm usually pretty good with grammar, but my attention lapsed there.


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## EulersK (Feb 14, 2016)

So, Storm, I was really hoping you (and several other extremely experienced members) would be willing to weigh in on that thread. I think Tenevanica put it quite well in response to your concern, and I understand where you're coming from as well. However, you clearly understand the cause of this little project, and I hope you could take the time to put in your rankings for at least the more common genera. Any chance?


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## Storm76 (Feb 15, 2016)

EulersK said:


> So, Storm, I was really hoping you (and several other extremely experienced members) would be willing to weigh in on that thread. I think Tenevanica put it quite well in response to your concern, and I understand where you're coming from as well. However, you clearly understand the cause of this little project, and I hope you could take the time to put in your rankings for at least the more common genera. Any chance?


Me "extremely" experienced? Well, thanks for the flowers, but the one thing that I do a lot besides keeping those species I have is keep reading about them. There's so much information out there and while some of it is to be taken with a grain of salt (or outright proven wrong) one still keeps learning daily. There are people on here (AphonopelmaTX, Poec, Chad, Michael, Jason and many more) that have way more experience and knowledge than me - I'm just trying to help out if I see something coming up that I do know some about.

To answer your question:
Yes, I can do this. But I'm not entirely sure what the outcome of that would be. As said before, my concern are the many different opinions. I'll give you an example: There's this category "Bite severity", right? Acanthoscurria spp. aren't exactly very toxic venom-wise, yet due to their adult-size with fangs that are over ~1" the mechanic damage those fangs can do is quite large. Which in turn means, I'd rate them at a severity of 4.  So, that right there is an example why I'm hesitating to put my couple cents into this, because I'm pretty sure the majority will argue that despite that mechanical damage, the venom isn't that painful and thus shouldn't be rated that high - and then the arguements start. Simply trying to avoid that.


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## bryverine (Feb 15, 2016)

Tenevanica said:


> Thanks! I'll go ahead and start the article up in the next hour or so.
> 
> *EDIT: *I just posted the thread. Check it out, and tell me if I need to make any changes to it.


Will you be doing any weighting of people's scores? 
If someone has raised several of species-X tarantulas from slings to adults and has had them for 10 years, their opinion should count for more than someone who hasn't raised one to maturity. 

For instance, I'd say right now, I probably have a greater risk of being bitten by my 5" B. smithi than I do my 3" H. maculata. My smithi likes to poke around while I do maintenance while my maculata hides if I breath near his enclosure. I don't expect he will act like this when he's a 'Big Mac', but I feel that until he's matured or at least gotten a bit bigger, I can't speak for their behavior.


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## Tenevanica (Feb 15, 2016)

bryverine said:


> Will you be doing any weighting of people's scores?
> If someone has raised several of species-X tarantulas from slings to adults and has had them for 10 years, their opinion should count for more than someone who hasn't raised one to maturity.
> 
> For instance, I'd say right now, I probably have a greater risk of being bitten by my 5" B. smithi than I do my 3" H. maculata. My smithi likes to poke around while I do maintenance while my maculata hides if I breath near his enclosure. I don't expect he will act like this when he's a 'Big Mac', but I feel that until he's matured or at least gotten a bit bigger, I can't speak for their behavior.


It's really up to @EulersK, because he's doing the tallying of the ratings. I wouldn't weigh scores because this is supposed to be a general guide for everyone. Weighing certain peoples scores could have the ratings biased towards certain keeping styles.


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## bryverine (Feb 16, 2016)

Tenevanica said:


> It's really up to @EulersK, because he's doing the tallying of the ratings. I wouldn't weigh scores because this is supposed to be a general guide for everyone. Weighing certain peoples scores could have the ratings biased towards certain keeping styles.


Maybe I'm looking too deep into this (I have a terrible habit of over analyzing things, sorry) but I don't take any data seriously unless I know how it was gathered and interpreted.

My fear is that someone who has no business giving advice is taken as equal to someone with actual experience. Not everyone is equal when it comes to knowledge.

Will you give a credits section or something of the sort to those who submitted answers? How will you be portraying these users that the numbers came from?

Anyways, I love your idea, regardless of the stuff I mentioned, I'm still interested to see the outcome. Good luck!

@EulersK are you one of those elusive math lovers?


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## Andrea82 (Feb 16, 2016)

bryverine said:


> Maybe I'm looking too deep into this (I have a terrible habit of over analyzing things, sorry) but I don't take any data seriously unless I know how it was gathered and interpreted.
> 
> My fear is that someone who has no business giving advice is taken as equal to someone with actual experience. Not everyone is equal when it comes to knowledge.
> 
> ...


This is exactly why I hesitate to put my scores in. What do I know of general behaviour,when I'm keeping T's for a year? The only species that I have experienced as juvi/adult for a year now is B.albopilosum,but that doesn't mean I can state numbers for the whole genus. 

On the other hand, beginners could rate 
T's they started out with according to how easy it is for a beginner to keep p these...but that would become a lot more work than it already is.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Rogerpoco (Feb 16, 2016)

Something touched on,but not explored yet in this thread-the changes in temperment as they grow.
My T. gigas slings were pretty slow,really,for arboreals. They are NOT slow now. My albos,campestratus,G. pulchra are all very slow now,but man,they coud scoot as slings.
Huge can of worms here-Avic guy,certainly NOT an expert,but...
An avic isnt "just" an avic. I pretty much care for all my similar sp. T's the same,but some of the drier,lower living sp.(minatrix,ulrichea,sp. peru purp)would definitely be better for a beginner than,say a purpurea,versicolor,or braunshauseni(terrible tempers).


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## bryverine (Feb 16, 2016)

Rogerpoco said:


> Something touched on,but not explored yet in this thread-the changes in temperment as they grow.


Yes, this. This is exactly what I was getting at! I've come across several replies to threads with people taking about how their OBT is the sweetest tarantula they have. A short while later, it's revealed this person had the OBT for 4 months and its 1".

Tarantulas mature into their attitudes and super powers. That's why I wanted to know if these numbers were solely based on adult/sub-adult characteristics.

Unfortunately, unless you state something like, "Based on a collective response of experienced owners who have had a minimum of two years with each specific species and have owned two or more specimens the data shows ______." it's hard for me to take this seriously.

I feel like you gotta draw the line somewhere about who is qualified.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Rogerpoco (Feb 16, 2016)

I will say,though,from mebbe not a unique position,but certainly an unusual one-First few months keeping T's was individuals,all as slings,from then on I have mostly gotten/kept 2 or more of the same sp. T.
There are mavericks,but from what I SEE,some fair generalizations can be made about some sp. .
Particularly keeping several avic multiples,from what I see,this "kind" acts like this,this "kind" acts like that.
Mostly. Usually.


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## Yanose (Feb 24, 2016)

I would suggest a separation of venom potency and fang damage. I can see what your trying to do here it would have to be species by species especially for Avicularia species. Yes you will likely get some conflicting info but if what your looking for is a mean average you could get that and that would create a good general idea of what was what. though you may have to make a sling, juvenile, sub-adult, adult rankings for each. I will work on the species i have kept

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Ungoliant (Jan 1, 2017)

EulersK said:


> I'm going to start putting together an Excel spreadsheet and start up a new thread tonight after I get home from work. I can even make graphs to represent individual genera to make it easier to read. That being said, here's what I have so far in terms of categories:
> -Speed
> -Venom potency
> -Environment control
> ...


What's the status of this project? (I would also have included urticating hairs in the criteria.)


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## EulersK (Jan 1, 2017)

Ungoliant said:


> What's the status of this project? (I would also have included urticating hairs in the criteria.)


It somewhat fell to the wayside after I realized the logistical nightmare of it as well as the objective nature of the entire project. Sorry


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## viper69 (Jan 1, 2017)

Ungoliant said:


> What's the status of this project? (I would also have included urticating hairs in the criteria.)


There are a few NW species that do not have urticating setae

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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