# My land snails keep dying! Please help



## Zyranne (Mar 18, 2019)

So I had about 5 land snails living together. I started with two, which I bought from an online shop. These two are currently doing great. However I did rescue 3 of a differing species of the other two. Two of these have now died. They were living with knowledgeable animal keepers but they had too many and some were eating the shells of the others,so they offered me some.

I'm not sure what I am doing wrong. I'm starting to think I should just stop keeping inverts as I had an issue with my giant millipedes also dying in my care. 

I keep the snails at temp 25-30C and humidity of 80% they are sprayed everyday. I will post pictures of the setup and the soil. It's ecoearth with some spagnum moss. There's also plants or weeds sprouting in the soil? 

I'm really stressing out and so angry at myself. How could something so seemingly easy to care for die in my care?am I bad at even my passion for inverts. If I can't even do something I love well, what's even the point.


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## The Snark (Mar 18, 2019)

Not enough info to go on. But it's a good rule to take a smear and have a lab do a parasite check. Hazard to both snail and yourself and very common.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Informative 1


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## Zyranne (Mar 18, 2019)

The Snark said:


> Not enough info to go on. But it's a good rule to take a smear and have a lab do a parasite check. Hazard to both snail and yourself and very common.


How could that have happened?


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## Polenth (Mar 18, 2019)

Do you have any pictures of the snails? What were you feeding them? How were they behaving? How are you maintaining that temperature?

30C is at the upper limit for the snails and is likely to be an issue for most millipedes as well. 25C is a more common temperature for a tropical animal room. I realise it could get warmer than that during the summer heatwaves, but it really shouldn't be hitting 30C right now (and before I had air conditioning, if it did get that hot, I'd have all the windows open, fans going, and have ice and cool blocks for animals who needed it cooler).

All that said, if the new snails are the only ones dying, it could be they had malnutrition from their previous home. Damage from overcrowding suggests they weren't getting enough food. Shell damage means they need food rich in calcium and vitamin D.

On population control, I wouldn't keep two species together unless you're sure they can't produce hybrids. If they're egglayers, you can freeze unwanted eggs to keep the population from getting out of control.


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## Zyranne (Mar 18, 2019)

Polenth said:


> Do you have any pictures of the snails? What were you feeding them? How were they behaving? How are you maintaining that temperature?
> 
> 30C is at the upper limit for the snails and is likely to be an issue for most millipedes as well. 25C is a more common temperature for a tropical animal room. I realise it could get warmer than that during the summer heatwaves, but it really shouldn't be hitting 30C right now (and before I had air conditioning, if it did get that hot, I'd have all the windows open, fans going, and have ice and cool blocks for animals who needed it cooler).
> 
> ...


I've been feeding them strawberries, grapes and cabbage. I will admit that I did feed them spinach but then I learned that can cause issues with calcium absorption. The new snails do have lots of cracks in their shells and the home they were in before was overcrowded substantially which is why i was given them. 

I have been using a heatmat but it has no thermostat to regulate the temp. I know it shouldn't be on the bottom but I found that on the side it wasn't heating the tank much at all.

Is the setup ok though and the soil condition?


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## Zyranne (Mar 18, 2019)

Polenth said:


> Do you have any pictures of the snails? What were you feeding them? How were they behaving? How are you maintaining that temperature?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is a picture of the snail that recently died.


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## Polenth (Mar 18, 2019)

Zyranne said:


> I've been feeding them strawberries, grapes and cabbage. I will admit that I did feed them spinach but then I learned that can cause issues with calcium absorption. The new snails do have lots of cracks in their shells and the home they were in before was overcrowded substantially which is why i was given them.
> 
> I have been using a heatmat but it has no thermostat to regulate the temp. I know it shouldn't be on the bottom but I found that on the side it wasn't heating the tank much at all.
> 
> Is the setup ok though and the soil condition?


The shell does look like diet issues, with some possible damage on the mantle.

They can eat most fresh food (and spinach isn't going to cause an issue as part of a varied diet), so don't be afraid of mixing it up a bit. But some dried food can help make sure they're getting all the vitamins, minerals and other things. Look for a fish food with added vitamin D (this is most of them... just check the ingredients). This is also a good protein source. For calcium, cuttlefish bone works, though some snails take a bit to get used to eating it. Reptile calcium powder and powdered milk are also good calcium sources. For general food you can use things like seeds, unsweetened breakfast cereals, and stuff like that.

Something I used to do was grind all that stuff together into a powder, then either mix with a little water or sprinkle it on cucumber. The cucumber doesn't have much food value, but it encourages them to try the new food and it's good for moisture.

The heating is a problem. It's a heat mat, you have no control over the temperature, and you've put it on the base so when they burrow to cool they'll get cooked. Room temperature is going to be fine for them as long as the room doesn't get that cold (they'll be fine at around 20C). If it does get much colder, it'd be better to heat the whole room. If you really have to use the heat mat, place it on the side with some space between the mat and the tank. It only needs to warm it a little, not keep them really hot.

The basic tank looks fine. You'd make life easier by covering some of the vents with cling film, as you wouldn't need to spray as often. But the moisture looks fine from what I can see. It's fairly easy to tell with snails, as they'll seal up and not come out if it's not damp enough.


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## The Snark (Mar 18, 2019)

Zyranne said:


> How could that have happened?


Snail parasitic infections in the wild have skyrocketed lately. The primary transmission source is rat poop and domestic cats and dogs which, along with many types of feces, snails love to chow down on. Similar to the spread of Giardia from bird poop: from rare 50 years ago to present day: don't drink from water sources anywhere in the wild. In the tropics snail infestation is now considered 100%. Anyone who has handled snails needs to get a parasite test.


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## Zyranne (Mar 19, 2019)

Polenth said:


> The shell does look like diet issues, with some possible damage on the mantle.
> 
> They can eat most fresh food (and spinach isn't going to cause an issue as part of a varied diet), so don't be afraid of mixing it up a bit. But some dried food can help make sure they're getting all the vitamins, minerals and other things. Look for a fish food with added vitamin D (this is most of them... just check the ingredients). This is also a good protein source. For calcium, cuttlefish bone works, though some snails take a bit to get used to eating it. Reptile calcium powder and powdered milk are also good calcium sources. For general food you can use things like seeds, unsweetened breakfast cereals, and stuff like that.
> 
> ...


I live in the UK and at the moment the average temp is about 15c during the day. Is this too cold or will they withstand this temp?


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## Zyranne (Mar 19, 2019)

The Snark said:


> Snail parasitic infections in the wild have skyrocketed lately. The primary transmission source is rat poop and domestic cats and dogs which, along with many types of feces, snails love to chow down on. Similar to the spread of Giardia from bird poop: from rare 50 years ago to present day: don't drink from water sources anywhere in the wild. In the tropics snail infestation is now considered 100%. Anyone who has handled snails needs to get a parasite test.


What if they are captive bred though?


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## Polenth (Mar 19, 2019)

Zyranne said:


> I live in the UK and at the moment the average temp is about 15c during the day. Is this too cold or will they withstand this temp?


They're unlikely to die, but for their comfort, I wouldn't drop them below 20C. Unless you're living outdoors, you should be able to heat the space. But if you can't do that for some reason, being a little cool is better than being too hot.



Zyranne said:


> What if they are captive bred though?


Rat lungworm is not an issue for captive bred animals unless you've been letting them mingle with wild rats.


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## The Snark (Mar 19, 2019)

Zyranne said:


> What if they are captive bred though?





Polenth said:


> Rat lungworm is not an issue for captive bred animals unless you've been letting them mingle with wild rats.


I don't have much of the skinny on means of transmission of the various parasites snails carry. But so far, it's been severely underestimated. Rat lungworm is just such a case.
https://www.livescience.com/63246-rat-lungworm-us.html
The rule of thumb epidemiologists are now taking as at the recent tropical disease symposium is assume the worst until tests come back negative. It's so easy to get a lab check done and the consequences are simply too dire to put it on ignore.

To give a classic example, I took the parasite test just following recommended guidelines a couple of years ago. Positive for Angiostrongylus cantonensis eosinophilic meningitis. I might have had it for years, misdiagnosed as neuralgia. I may have contracted it as a child as my dad was a gardener, always tossing snails out of the vegetable gardens, rat infested bougainvillea a few yards away.


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## Polenth (Mar 20, 2019)

The Snark said:


> I don't have much of the skinny on means of transmission of the various parasites snails carry. But so far, it's been severely underestimated. Rat lungworm is just such a case.
> https://www.livescience.com/63246-rat-lungworm-us.html
> The rule of thumb epidemiologists are now taking as at the recent tropical disease symposium is assume the worst until tests come back negative. It's so easy to get a lab check done and the consequences are simply too dire to put it on ignore.
> 
> To give a classic example, I took the parasite test just following recommended guidelines a couple of years ago. Positive for Angiostrongylus cantonensis eosinophilic meningitis. I might have had it for years, misdiagnosed as neuralgia. I may have contracted it as a child as my dad was a gardener, always tossing snails out of the vegetable gardens, rat infested bougainvillea a few yards away.


The lifecycle of rat lungworm goes from rats to slugs/snails and back to rats again. The slugs/snails eat infected rat faeces in order to be infected themselves. You can read about the details here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3689493/

Humans usually catch it either from eating infected slugs/snails or eating the slug/snail mucus (such as on unwashed vegetables or not washing hands after handling slugs/snails). Humans are not the intended hosts and the parasite will die in humans. That means humans can't pass it on.

This means that captive bred snails are not going to have the parasite under usual conditions. They don't catch it from each other. They can't catch it from humans. They can only catch it from being able to eat the faeces of infected rats.

It's a thing to know about when handling wild slugs/snails, but it's not going to be why these captive bred snails are dying. Nor is there a significant risk in keeping captive bred snails.


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## The Snark (Mar 20, 2019)

Polenth said:


> The lifecycle of rat lungworm goes from rats to slugs/snails and back to rats again.


Informative but dated. Transmission through vegetable matter is now being considered. And that of course is only one of several snail borne parasites of concern. Again, when in any doubt, testing is in order.

Reactions: Like 1


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