# Sick lizard



## jbm150 (Jun 17, 2009)

Maybe this is a lost cause but I thought I'd give it a shot.  I have 3 brown anoles that I caught outside and I've had 'em for a few months.  One has recently become ill.  I noticed the first symptoms when I came home one day and the lizard was sleeping on the ground.  I thought that was weird because they're never asleep during the day.  I went up to it and tapped on the glass and nothing.  Great, dead lizard.  I put my hand in to pick it up and it woke up and started running around.  So I didn't think too much of it.  

But more and more, it would be asleep on the ground during the day and wouldn't open its eyes unless I touched it.  A few times it would be asleep upside down on a piece of wood and now today, it was sleeping upside down plastered to the glass on the tank, just like it was alive and well.  But it can barely keep its eyes open.  It was eating like a trooper even the last coupla days but today it hasn't eaten the cricket I gave it.  I caught it (its still fast) and put it in its own small tank with a bit a moist soil, water on the walls, and a cricket but it still didn't eat.  It can only open one eye but it doens't keep it open for very long.  Its looking a bit skinny but not emaciated (again, it has been eating and drinking the last few days).  But its not well and I want to do what I can  

It IS just a lizard from outside (there are thousands per square foot here in south florida!) so I'm not taking it to a vet.  But any ideas what could be causing it and maybe a possible treatment?  The other two lizards seem to be in great health.  Thanks in advance everyone


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## Sequin (Jun 17, 2009)

> It IS just a lizard from outside (there are thousands per square foot here in south florida!) so I'm not taking it to a vet.



IMO, it's pretty cruel to capture a wild animal, contain it, and then watch while it deteriorates. If you're going to capture an animal, and make it a pet, then treat it as one, vet visits included. 

Set the poor thing free. At least in the wild it'll have a small chance of recovery, rather then stuck in a tank without any chance of medical treatment.


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## ErinKelley (Jun 18, 2009)

You didn't include _how_ you were keeping the lizards you captured.  If the environment is not to blame then maybe it could be the social structure of the group you collected.  Meaning, maybe you got two boys and a girl and the one that's not doing so well is the subordinate member and he's deteriorating due to that.


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## jbm150 (Jun 18, 2009)

ErinKelley said:


> You didn't include _how_ you were keeping the lizards you captured.  If the environment is not to blame then maybe it could be the social structure of the group you collected.  Meaning, maybe you got two boys and a girl and the one that's not doing so well is the subordinate member and he's deteriorating due to that.


Good point.  They're in a 29 gal aquarium with an aquarium light.  The plastic sheet has been removed from the bulb housing so that the lizards can receive the full spectrum.  I mist periodically and see them drink all the time (not tap water, spring water).  Substrate is the same dirt from where I collected them.  Its plenty warm and humid, I live in South Florida and I don't run my air (much to the chagrin of my girlfriend  ).  The lizards are all male but they don't fight.  They actually get along very well, considering.  It might be parasites as they are wild caught and I feed them wild caught prey every once in a while.  Mostly crickets though, fed fruits, veggies, and dog food.  

Sequin:  Granted, its probably not necessarily nice to keep wc animals.  And then to not follow up with the best possible veterinary care.  But I'm not torturing them, I'm not watching it waste away.  I'm taking what steps I can for an animal that is expendable.  Yes, expendable.  They are a non-native, invasive species that breed prolifically and, individually, have a very low ecological value.  They are an equivalent to a feeder cricket or guppy.  But I don't want it to die unnecessarily (its death is not contributing to any food web - yet  ).

With all that in mind, anything come to mind?  It still seems very sleepy but both its eyes do open now.  Again, it looks like a very healthy lizard otherwise


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## UrbanJungles (Jun 18, 2009)

Just because two male lizards "don't fight" it doesn't mean one is not harassig the other (Anoles are very visual, like chameleons) or suppressing it in any way.  It's very possible one is dominating the other.

If you are taking on the responsibility of taking on a new "pet" then you should be responsible enough to take it to the vet if it gets sick.  Doesn't matter where it came from.

chances are that your wc anoles are also having some parasite problems, it's typical.


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## jbm150 (Jun 18, 2009)

UrbanJungles said:


> Just because two male lizards "don't fight" it doesn't mean one is not harassig the other (Anoles are very visual, like chameleons) or suppressing it in any way.  It's very possible one is dominating the other.
> 
> If you are taking on the responsibility of taking on a new "pet" then you should be responsible enough to take it to the vet if it gets sick.  Doesn't matter where it came from.
> 
> chances are that your wc anoles are also having some parasite problems, it's typical.


Hmm, thats a possibility.  I don't see them all of the time, so who knows whats really going on.  I will say, they have a large tank with plenty of places and opportunities to establish their own territories and be out of each other's sights.  They do have their spots of choice but they rarely threat pose at each other or exert dominance.  They'll sometimes lay together even.  And its not the biggest one on top, they take turns or lay beside each other.  

It could be a disease or parasite, that sucks.  I've quarantined him, I'll see if his condition improves.

Oh, and for all of these vet comments, forget it.  I'm not wasting a vets time and resources on this, only my own.  Call me or think of me as a bastard, ok.  I wouldn't take my T to a vet either, I'd try to treat her myself with whatever info I can glean from these boards.  A cat, a dog, sure.  Even a large snake, lizard, or bird, I would.  But this lizard is essentially a feeder; if it was captive bred, guess where it would be headed


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## RoachGirlRen (Jun 18, 2009)

An "aquarium light?" Elaborate on that, please. Most standard aquarium (fish) light fixtures are _not_ full spectrum UVB/UVA like those intended for reptiles. While I don't think you'd have a problem this soon, it _could_ be a problem related to insufficient UVB/UVA exposure resulting in deficiency. Either way, if it is just a fish tank light, you need to replace it with a proper light.

The problem could also be as simple as stress. Wild caught animals are stressed in captivity, period. Even if well fed and cared for, they are suddenly thrust into new living conditions, often in inappropriate social structures (as is the case here, might I mention), with the constant sensory stress of human-environment sights, smells, sounds, etc. The chronic stress of this environment can cause health problems to emerge, and can also weaken the animal's condition until it is susceptible to pre-existing conditions (ie. parasites). 

And finally, as others have mentioned, the animal could be stressed by the inappropriate social grouping you have the animals in and merely responding to the dominant individual(s). 

Frankly, I think you should reconsider keeping these animals if you will not provide for their social and medical needs. I don't know if it would be prudent to re-release them since they are invasive, but perhaps rehome them (or keep only one male at a time) to someone more willing to properly accomodate them as pets.


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## GailC (Jun 18, 2009)

First thing I though of was UV deficiency, especially as RoachGirlRen said, aquarium lights don't produce UV.
Stress or parasites are the next thing I think of. Personally I would turn it loose then find a good care sheet and make sure your remaining anoles are getting proper care.
Another thing to keep in mind, when you see them laying together, its not because they are getting along. That is a classic lizard show of dominance, its kinda like saying " I'm gonna lay on you, what are you gonna do about it?"


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## Sequin (Jun 18, 2009)

jbm150 said:


> Sequin:   I'm taking what steps I can for an animal that is expendable.  Yes, expendable.  They are a non-native, invasive species that breed prolifically and, individually, have a very low ecological value.  They are an equivalent to a feeder cricket or guppy. :


If you don't care about the animals life, or the quality of it, why keep it??? There is a multitude of reasons to why the anole is sick. Like others have stated, it could be the communal aspect or social structure. A 29 gallon aquarium is hardly a sufficient space for three dominant WC anoles to establish "territory" I'm going to bet all three anoles have parasites. Maybe the stress of captivity, is lowering the sick anoles immune system. Causing the once harmless parasites, to wreak havoc internally. WC anoles are relatively delicate, perhaps it's just dying of stress, as it can't adopt to the irregular conditions of an aquarium. Maybe its diet is insufficient, maybe it's not receiving the proper amount of UVA/UVB, maybe it was a sick lizard prior to be captured. The maybe's go on and on, but we're not qualified vets and I can't perform a fecal float in cyber space.

So again, I'd suggest you either set the anole free, or take it to the vet. If you're not compassionate enough to do either, then shame on you.

Meg


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## UrbanJungles (Jun 18, 2009)

jbm150 said:


> Oh, and for all of these vet comments, forget it.  I'm not wasting a vets time and resources on this, only my own.  Call me or think of me as a bastard, ok.


...............

*
OK.*


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## jbm150 (Jun 18, 2009)

waldo said:


> First thing I though of was UV deficiency, especially as RoachGirlRen said, aquarium lights don't produce UV.
> Stress or parasites are the next thing I think of. Personally I would turn it loose then find a good care sheet and make sure your remaining anoles are getting proper care.
> Another thing to keep in mind, when you see them laying together, its not because they are getting along. That is a classic lizard show of dominance, its kinda like saying " I'm gonna lay on you, what are you gonna do about it?"


This could be something of a problem then.  I bought the light a long time ago for fish.  I read that aquarium lights do produce both wavelengths of UV but the clear plastic sheet blocks one of the wavelengths, B I think.  I removed it but if this is not the case, then that won't work.  

For the laying together, its only occassionally and its mostly beside each other.  Even though one is bigger than the others, he doesn't lay on them any more than they lay on him.  The third is about the same size as the sick one.  You're right though, it may be just a matter of time before they all fall sick if its a UV problem.  I think I will go ahead and release them.  I've had 'em for about half a year, learned a bunch about 'em, I suppose its time to let 'em go.

Thank you Roachgirl and Waldo, for supplying me information without the judgements, even if you were thinking them.  To everyone else, thank you too for the information and character checks.


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## RoachGirlRen (Jun 18, 2009)

No problem. I must have misread the post; half a year is definitely enough time for them to have problems from inappropriate lighting, so a reckon that's it.

For future reference, in regards to lighting for reptiles - definitely only use lights specifically for reptiles, and specifically labeled as providing UVB/UVA. There is a lot of confusion out there as to what "full spectrum" lighting actually means, which results in misinformation about what such products provide. TMK, the lights used on aquarium do not provide what reptiles need. 

But, even if they did, an old used light most likely would not have provided what these animals need. The effectiveness of UVB in such bulbs wears off (in laymen's terms) long before the UVA, so the light may be burning while the animal is gleaning no benefit without the owner's knowledge. You generally want to replace such bulbs every 6 months or so.


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## jbm150 (Jun 18, 2009)

If thats indeed the case, that definitely isn't good.  If what they are getting isn't the full complement, its insufficient and could lead to a host of problems that might manifest very slowly.  Hmm, thank you for that!  I'll take them back to the area that I got them


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