# Theoretical mycosis treatment  and plausible reasoning for higher mycosis cases in recent SE asian i



## REEFSPIDER (Feb 21, 2019)

As most know mycosis is a bit of a troublesome issue for those of us keeping centipedes for any given amount of time and for most keepers it has occurred atleast once, and for the most part, treatment prescribed is to reduce humidity in the enclosure and wait for the pede to molt. In my experience and the collective experience of some close friends this has mixed results. My new theory stems from my S.heros breeding project which I am currently cooling (high 40s low 50s) to naturally replicate winter  (I was told this is beneficial to breeding activity) regardless of breeding for this instance I am theorizing that perhaps cooling periods can also aid in a pede beating mycosis. I have one of six of my heros displaying mycosis and since cooling the spread has stopped and appears to have even subsided a bit, Mycosis is believed to be fungal and fungal growth needs moisture but it also needs heat to thrive in all but rare instances.  In theory for pedes like S.heros that naturally experience a cold winter this colder time may also keep mycosis at bay, by allowing the pedes to regain the upper hand in the battle against fungal infection and beating it from the inside. And this very same natural cooling along with generally low mycosis cases in S.heros to begin with, is why I believe perhaps a warming trend in more tropical places of the world like South East Asia could in fact contribute to higher cases of mycosis in pedes from that region of the world, if they are living at 10 degrees on average higher than they used to, they probably wouldn't die from heat increase of that little over say 3 decades(example), but mycosis could rapidly gain ground against them if heat is a factor to its growth. Specifically for S.dehaani or S.mycosis as i jokingly call them. And other mycosis prone species. This may all be irrelevant but just my thoughts, feel free to add more, or educate me on how or why my theory is dumb I'm open to it all, cheers.

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## l4nsky (Feb 21, 2019)

I think a better hypothesis might be the opposite.



> *Fungi are part of the reason we exist*
> Roughly 65 million years ago, an asteroid strike would wipe out 70 percent of all life on Earth. But it wouldn’t happen all at once. The lack of sunlight that followed the asteroid impact meant that the plant life that didn’t die on impact would start to decay rapidly, creating the conditions for fungi to spread rapidly.
> 
> When that happened, mammals had one key advantage over cold-blooded reptiles, then the planet’s dominant life forms.
> ...


https://www.cbc.ca/natureofthings/m_features/fungi-are-responsible-for-life-on-land-as-we-know-it

While cold can certainly impede the growth of some fungi, I think heat might be a better answer. This theory postulates that mammals rose to dominance after the dinosaur extinction event because warm blooded animals are better resistant to fungal infections than their cold blooded counterparts. My question is, has anybody ever tried a hot and dry approach to treating mycosis in the tropical species that can't withstand the cold temps that S. heros can?

Thanks,
--Matt

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## RTTB (Feb 21, 2019)

Interesting topic.

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## REEFSPIDER (Feb 21, 2019)

l4nsky said:


> I think a better hypothesis might be the opposite.
> 
> 
> https://www.cbc.ca/natureofthings/m_features/fungi-are-responsible-for-life-on-land-as-we-know-it
> ...


Definitely can see how this is valid, I opened this thread up to learn more not to say I'm right and i would agree trying a warm dry method on tropical sp. to test viability of mycosis treatment is something that should be looked at also.


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## l4nsky (Feb 21, 2019)

REEFSPIDER said:


> Definitely can see how this is valid, I opened this thread up to learn more not to say I'm right and i would agree trying a warm dry method on tropical sp. to test viability of mycosis treatment is something that should be looked at also.


I think both theories deserve an experiment. My only concern is if a weakened pede can take the 98 degree temperatures and for how long would it be necessary. This goes without saying, but if anyone does try it, the pede would need access to a large water dish to avoid dehydration.

Thanks,
--Matt

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## Bill S (Feb 21, 2019)

You are basically looking at two metabolisms - that of the fungus and that of the centipede.  In centipedes the immune response and hence the ability to fight off an infection will decrease with cooler temperatures and increase with warmer temperatures within "healthy range" for any given species.  Molds and fungi can have very different optimal growth temperatures.  Without being able to identify the particular fungus involved it would be difficult to guess what temperatures that fungus grows best at.  I would place my bets with keeping the centipede at its optimal temperature and conditions while trying to minimize likely good conditions for molds.   In other words - "comfortably" warm for the centipede, dry substrate (to limit the fungus) but making sure the centipede has water to drink.

Keeping the centipede at temperatures that are too hot could create stress, which would decrease the centipede's immune response.  But it might also stress the fungus.  The gamble is which gets more stressed.

Something else that might be worth considering is paying attention to the pH and nutrient load of the substrate.  I do not know of any work done on optimum pH levels for centipedes, but it probably varies a lot with different species.  I live on a limestone hillside (high pH) and we have lots of Scolopendra heros here.  But species found in jungles would probably be in low-pH soils.  High nutrient loads in the substrate, especially with moisture, would allow molds and fungus to grow well, so periodically replacing old substrate with fresh clean stuff could be helpful.

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## Greasylake (Feb 21, 2019)

Bill S said:


> Keeping the centipede at temperatures that are too hot could create stress, which would decrease the centipede's immune response. But it might also stress the fungus. The gamble is which gets more stressed.


Sounds essentially like what a fever is to us. I agree with you that without knowing which fungus is causing the infection we dont know how best to fight it, and infections aren't always going to be caused by the same fungus so I'm wondering if it would even be worth it to try to find out.

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## l4nsky (Feb 21, 2019)

Bill S said:


> High nutrient loads in the substrate, especially with moisture, would allow molds and fungus to grow well, so periodically replacing old substrate with fresh clean stuff could be helpful.


Not necessarily. With the old substrate, the mycelium will have pretty much exhausted any organic resources it uses for fuel and start to wither away. New substrate will knock down the mycelial population for a little bit, but unless you sterilize the cage prior to adding the new substrate and find some way to clean the pede of any spores or mycelium, the fungi will come roaring back with a vengeance thanks to the refreshed food supply. You might be on to something with the pH, especially for the tropical species. As a rule, the rainforest soils are usually acidic from all the decaying biomaterial and as such, those fungi have evolved for that pH. I suspect that they would have a strong negative reaction if some calcium carbonate were mixed into the substrate, causing a pH shift to basic. Perhaps hot, dry, and basic pH could be a magic combination.


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## Bill S (Feb 22, 2019)

l4nsky said:


> ... With the old substrate, the mycelium will have pretty much exhausted any organic resources it uses for fuel and start to wither away. ...


Mycelia themselves are biological materials, and hence nutrient.  Any decomposing biological material (including mycelia) can be nutrient.  There are fungi that grow on other fungi.  (Although these would not be likely to be the same ones infecting a centipede.)

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## l4nsky (Feb 22, 2019)

Bill S said:


> Mycelia themselves are biological materials, and hence nutrient.  Any decomposing biological material (including mycelia) can be nutrient.  There are fungi that grow on other fungi.  (Although these would not be likely to be the same ones infecting a centipede.)


Correct, but their will be less nutrition available for the next species, and as you pointed out the next species likely wont pose a risk. As this cycle continues, the biologically available nutrition gets less and less without large additions of new biomass (like decaying plants who add more to the soil then they take away because they use an external source (the sun) to create additional biomass).


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## REEFSPIDER (Feb 22, 2019)

@Bill S well said, I've actually just switched the only dehaani i keep over to "new out of bag" dry soil. Its not bone dry but it is significantly drier than how i was keeping it, and the pede is being kept at a constant 75 daytime 65 nitetime temp. This particular specimen is only exhibiting a tiny bit of mycosis, so rather than keep the debaani cooler I think I will continue to monitor the temps and keep it fairly dry and see how it goes. It does have a decent sized creme brulee ramekin for water access and it is currently very lively. Possibly it is also gravid, it's a fresh import Vietnam dehaani. Obviously if it does drop I will bump humidity accordingly for the sake of the brood. But until then I think you may be onto something. Also the ph is something I wanna look at more for pedes, I've been playing with ph for isopod cultures. I'm actually going to be sourcing some raw limestone in the future and I may just toss some in with my S.heros. @l4nsky brought some good points also and this thread is proving to be exactly what i wanted it to be, the knowledge shared here is priceless to me.


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## Dry Desert (Feb 24, 2019)

REEFSPIDER said:


> @Bill S well said, I've actually just switched the only dehaani i keep over to "new out of bag" dry soil. Its not bone dry but it is significantly drier than how i was keeping it, and the pede is being kept at a constant 75 daytime 65 nitetime temp. This particular specimen is only exhibiting a tiny bit of mycosis, so rather than keep the debaani cooler I think I will continue to monitor the temps and keep it fairly dry and see how it goes. It does have a decent sized creme brulee ramekin for water access and it is currently very lively. Possibly it is also gravid, it's a fresh import Vietnam dehaani. Obviously if it does drop I will bump humidity accordingly for the sake of the brood. But until then I think you may be onto something. Also the ph is something I wanna look at more for pedes, I've been playing with ph for isopod cultures. I'm actually going to be sourcing some raw limestone in the future and I may just toss some in with my S.heros. @l4nsky brought some good points also and this thread is proving to be exactly what i wanted it to be, the knowledge shared here is priceless to me.


If I can speak from experience with Arid Desert species of scorpions with reference to Mycosis. One commonly kept species - Hadrurus arizonensis - is very prone to Mycosis if not kept correctly. The best way to prevent the start of Mycosis is to have an almost sterile substrate, humidity no greater than 50% and temps. in the lower to mid 90's F.However one of the most important factors is Ventilation, Maximum ventilation with good air change is essential, if ever I need to keep arid species in glass tanks the tops are always completly open and with heat lamps above forcing warm air down thus drawing in cooler air from the sides.Also I found that having a permanent water dish in the enclosure keeps the humidity too high, again with arid type scorpions I only offer a water dish once every 2 weeks and then only for 24 hrs.Obviously this is different for high humidity Asian forest species of scorpions, however they can still suffer from Mycoscis but being black it is never noticable, which probably accounts for unexplained sudden deaths in tropical forest scorpions which is usually put down to them being wild caught , or old age. So , in my experience, a combination of bad substrate, high humidity and poor ventilation will always lead to Mycosis. ( The Lower the temp. the Higher the humidity )

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## REEFSPIDER (Feb 24, 2019)

Dry Desert said:


> If I can speak from experience with Arid Desert species of scorpions with reference to Mycosis. One commonly kept species - Hadrurus arizonensis - is very prone to Mycosis if not kept correctly. The best way to prevent the start of Mycosis is to have an almost sterile substrate, humidity no greater than 50% and temps. in the lower to mid 90's F.However one of the most important factors is Ventilation, Maximum ventilation with good air change is essential, if ever I need to keep arid species in glass tanks the tops are always completly open and with heat lamps above forcing warm air down thus drawing in cooler air from the sides.Also I found that having a permanent water dish in the enclosure keeps the humidity too high, again with arid type scorpions I only offer a water dish once every 2 weeks and then only for 24 hrs.Obviously this is different for high humidity Asian forest species of scorpions, however they can still suffer from Mycoscis but being black it is never noticable, which probably accounts for unexplained sudden deaths in tropical forest scorpions which is usually put down to them being wild caught , or old age. So , in my experience, a combination of bad substrate, high humidity and poor ventilation will always lead to Mycosis. ( The Lower the temp. the Higher the humidity )


This is all great info, regarding the removal of dishes for arid species I've been playing around with the idea myself, I've just opted to use much smaller water dishes than i normally would to reduce humidity, though removing them completely periodically and offering them for a water period may be the better route. I've actually been trying to figure how i can keep all my projects in open air vivs or containers like you described, it's cool to hear ideas I've pondered in my head getting applied by others. Certainly reassuring.


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## Scoly (Feb 24, 2019)

The observations are really valuable, but the theory is an over-simplification, and as such is bound to be incomplete, let me explain why.

If you have a sterile substrate, with a single species of fungus growing, then provided humidity and CO2/oxygen levels are OK, increasing the temperature will increase the growth rate of the fungus - up to a certain point, after which it drops. But that is on a sterile substrate, which doesn't happen in nature. In nature a fungus is in interaction and competition with 100's of other micro-organisms. So it could be that on substrate X, a temperature of 25C favours micro-organism A, which helps the fungus to grow, but if the temperature increases to 28C then micro-organism B (a bacteria, or another fungus) does better, and that one happens to produce an anti-fungal which impedes our fungus's growth. So 25C is better than 28C. But as our fungus grows and dissolves the substrate and its composition changes, causing the PH to drop, and once it goes below 6.5 then 25C favours micro-organism C, which out-competes our fungus, so at that stage 28C could be better. But if all of this happens at 15% higher humidity, then micro-organism D becomes a contender and the playing field changes yet again.

This hopefully illustrates the complexity of guessing which factor will favour one specific fungus or micro-organism over others, and just that's on a dead substrate... On a living substrate (such as a centipede) it gets even more complex. The fight against the fungus is being waged not just by the centipede's immune system, but also the bacteria living on and in the centipede, which in turn are affected by the centipede's diet, temperature etc... We recently discovered that humans fight lung infections not with their own antibodies, but with proteins produced by our gut bacteria! So it could well turn out that temperature plays far less important a role in a centipede's fight against mycosis than how the contents of its gut support the bacteria which create the antibodies it needs (just speculating, but this is totally plausible).

Sometimes such generalisations seem to apply, such as how El Nino weather which creates warmer surface water temperatures results in increased numbers of bacterial infections in sharks, and it's tempting to believe there was a simple direct causation. But who's not to say that a drop in temperatures would have had the same effect - just with a different bacteria?

Further, considering how dynamic the interactions are, saying things like "increasing the temperature worked for me" (and I've been guilty of saying that myself) is not helpful when applied to an environment with different factors. E.g. if I increase temperature to 28C and it heals my pede's mycosis. You try the same, but your enclosure only has only 50% of the ventilation surface mine does, and the bump to 28C creates a sauna rather than dry the air out, which is what cure my pede's mycosis (all speculative again, but an example of how "single factor" remedies can backfire)

The answer to all this is detailed scientific observation. If we can establish statistical correlation between factors such as temperature, humidity, ventilation, PH and measurable mycosis levels, then we can apply the patterns without even needing to understand the theory in most cases. However, hoping that a simple theory will hold out in a complex and dynamic system is not much more effective than rolling dice.

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## Dry Desert (Feb 25, 2019)

Let's mention a few established facts rather than " bucket fulls of Generalisations "  

Firstly as of to-day there is no cure for Mycosis in inverts - no one has implied that raising the temp. will cure Mycosis as there is no cure. 

Secondly having all known factors working together ie:- High temp. Good ventilation, Low humidity and a substrate that is all but sterile -  so as not to introduce bacteria into an enclosed environment -  should keep most bacteria at bay.  
As we know any bacteria is hard, if not impossible, to kill. However the three main temp. ranges for bacteria are:- 
Below 4.4 C Dormant Stage 
4.4 C - 60 C Growing Range ( Optimum growth range 50 - 60 C )
Exposure above 70 c Most cells die. This is why DHWS ( Domestic Hot Water Services ) in industry has to be sterilized above 65 C, - 70 C is better. 

Thirdly I don't think all the scientific theories relating to Mycosis is the answer - educating keepers in the correct husbandry and them knowing what to aim for, temp. humidity, ventilation etc. wise, is the way to prevent Mycosis getting hold in the first place, as I am sure Mycosis doesn't exist in nature in very hot, arid landscapes. It's only when we keep our charges in less than ideal conditions is when Mycosis comes to the surface having probably laid dormant waiting for the right ( WRONG ) conditions to be delived on a plate. 
As stated previously there is no cure for Mycosis, raising the temp. changing the substrate etc. does not cure anything it just prevents the bacteria spreading.

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## Scoly (Feb 25, 2019)

Dry Desert said:


> Let's mention a few established facts rather than " bucket fulls of Generalisations "
> 
> Firstly as of to-day there is no cure for Mycosis in inverts - no one has implied that raising the temp. will cure Mycosis as there is no cure.
> 
> ...


Sorry to call you out so bluntly but that post is grossly incorrect on a number of points:

Mycosis is a *fungal* infection, not a bacterial infection, so everything you just said about bacteria is great info but totally irrelevant to mycosis. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mycosis
Mycosis in invertebrates *can* be cured. Many centipede keepers have successfully cleared it up from their specimens by drying them out, and not have it come back. Further I'm sure a number of anti-fungal treatments developed for medicine would be effective too, although we have no idea what side-effects they might have on inverts.
Mycosis *does* happen in the wild, a lot. Many WC centipedes come in with it already established, even from pretty arid areas. Scroll through these forums to see how many WC S.heros and S.gigantea came in with it.


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## Dry Desert (Feb 25, 2019)

So with all this information you have at your disposal you can now set about telling all these keepers that are SILLY enough to buy in infected inverts how to go about curing them, and there will no longer be a a problem with Mycosis ever again.

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## Scoly (Feb 25, 2019)

Dry Desert said:


> So with all this information you have at your disposal you can now set about telling all these keepers that are SILLY enough to buy in infected inverts how to go about curing them, and there will no longer be a a problem with Mycosis ever again.


Sorry to have to call you out again, but that's yet another post which is incorrect on a number of points:

People don't know in advance when the invert they are ordering has mycosis (Mostly we don't see photos of the actual specimen, and many shops specialise in spiders and wouldn't know how to spot mycosis on a pede. Please don't extrapolate that to call everyone who has ever ordered a pede with mycosis SILLY, as you've just insulted half the forum.)
I did not indicate that I was setting about telling these keepers how to cure mycosis.
I did not indicate that the fact some cures work mean that mycosis will never be a problem ever again.
That's the fact correction out of the way, but I'm going to follow this up by reminding you that this forum exists to share experiences about keeping arachnids and other inverts, _primarily_ so that we may all learn how to keep them better. It's great fun taking part in this, but the flip side is that if you post something which is patently wrong (such as calling mycosis a bacterial infection) then expect someone will call you out on it, because misinformation is harmful. It happens to everyone, and you simply need to acknowledge it and move on, no one is going to shoot you for being wrong.

However, trying to come back at the person who corrected you with derogatory remarks, a nonsensical argument, or inferring that they said things which they clearly didn't, is just going to make you look like an even bigger idiot, so please think twice about doing that again.

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## Dry Desert (Feb 25, 2019)

Scoly said:


> Sorry to have to call you out again, but that's yet another post which is incorrect on a number of points:
> 
> People don't know in advance when the invert they are ordering has mycosis (Mostly we don't see photos of the actual specimen, and many shops specialise in spiders and wouldn't know how to spot mycosis on a pede. Please don't extrapolate that to call everyone who has ever ordered a pede with mycosis SILLY, as you've just insulted half the forum.)
> I did not indicate that I was setting about telling these keepers how to cure mycosis.
> ...


Please don't reply to this as thanks to people like yourself I am closing my account.


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## l4nsky (Feb 25, 2019)

Ok, so I have to preface this with the following disclaimer: I am NOT a microbiologist, zoologist, or Infectious disease specialist. I am a person who loves research, cold blooded animals, and I have a deep interest in mycology. As such, this is going to be a little long winded and I welcome all discourse on my theory (I admit, this topic has sent me down a rabbit hole. I even said Hi to Alice lol)


So, as it’s been pointed out in the past, we really know little to nothing about mycosis in invertebrates. The very fact that we call it mycosis displays our ignorance (as the definition of mycosis is a general fungal infection) to what is actually going on. We don’t know what species (singular or plural) of fungi are the cause, and as such we can’t know what the optimal or sub-optimal growth parameters are or a treatment regimen. Until someone can isolate and ID the fungus from an infected centipede, all we have is anecdotal evidence and treatments. So, what do we know?



We know that it infects invertebrates


We know that it is widespread. Species from different continents are collected or imported already possessing the infection


We believe it is fungal.


We know that the disease we call mycosis appears as dark spots on the exterior of the animal, primarily on legs but sometimes on the antenna and other parts of the body.


We know that high humidity and moisture exacerbates the disease and that drier substrate can help animals with lesser infections recover (more evidence pointing to fungal)


We know that both species that are tropical and kept with high humidity are prone, as are dry species kept with too much humidity. At the same time, some keepers have reported keeping species like S. subspinipes in moist, high humidity environments for years without issue, defying the common creed that these environmental conditions are the sole cause of the disease.


We know that healthy animals that have been imported can acquire the disease years down the road, in an entirely different hemisphere.


We know that animals kept in both bioactive enclosures with higher nutrient levels in the soil and nutrient poor semi sterile environments (pure coir for example) can contract this disease.


Now, with what we know, I’ve made a few inferences from this data to work from:


I believe it is a singular, wide ranging species that causes mycosis in invertebrates. Sure, it’s entirely possible that multiple species of fungi could cause an infection with the same symptoms and signs (dark spots, lethargy, etc), but in this case I’m invoking Occam’s Razor and theorizing it’s one species. This species must have a broad range and be highly prevalent to infect so many different inverts from different continents, be highly adaptable to different environments, be known to cause cutaneous mycosis in invertebrates, produce black or dark signs of infection, and can survive with little nutrition in a semi sterile environment if necessary.


I believe that there is some other factor at play besides environment causing the infection. I believe it is stress. Stress compromises the immune system, allowing the fungus to take ahold. This would explain why some animals get it and some don’t in high humidity environments. This also explains why we see frequent imports of infected specimens (stress from collection/shipping and infected or stressed animals are easier to collect), and why animals can catch it years down the road (when they get stressed, they’ll become susceptible to the fungi, which is probably already present, being widespread).


So, knowing and theorizing all of this, I think I’ve found a likely candidate for the cause of the infections: *Aspergillus niger*. Hear me out really quick before you decide to throw stones:


Aspergillus niger is a global species of mold, one of the most common Aspergillus sp, and is commonly known as black mold, infecting pretty much anything, from food to coral to humans. The spores are omnipresent, yet they won’t harm an animal with a healthy and uncompromised immune system, except in extremely high doses.


Aspergillus sp are known to cause mycosis (even the wiki page for mycosis uses a picture of an Aspergillus infection as it’s default)


Aspergillus sp, like other molds, thrive in high moisture and high humidity environments with little ventilation.


Aspergillus sp are oligotrophs, meaning organisms that can survive in low nutrient environments.


And here’s the kicker:


According to the AZA’s Veterinarians Infectious Disease Committee Manual from 2013, Aspergillus infections (called Aspergillosis) can infect invertebrates, can present as a cutaneous (or skin, external) disease, have the worst impact on immunocompromised specimens (stressed specimens), and can present nonspecific signs such as lethargy and weakness. (It's a PDF download here: https://www.aazv.org/resource/resmgr/IDM/IDM_Aspergillosis_2013.pdf)


IF, and this is a big IF, A. niger or another species of Aspergillus is the culprit, this isn’t necessarily good news. They are highly adaptable and virulent. They grow best anywhere between 77 and 104 degrees, (with 86 to 95 being the sweet spot), can survive on little nutrition, and the spores are pretty much anywhere, indoors and out. We also know that Aspergillus sp can withstand a large pH range (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2049282) and are actually more tolerant of basic pH over acidic pH


(I would like to stop here real quick. If I’m on to something, this means I have to eat crow here for my previous theory about higher temps and basic PH. I know from my fungiculture experience that high temps are lethal to a lot of species, but not these. As such, if anyone would have followed my idea, their pede would be dead. The heat would stress them and the fungi would love it)


However, there is some good news. We know high ventilation and low moisture levels have worked in the past, and they do have an adverse effect on mold growth. We also know that Aspergillus niger doesn’t grow under 59 degrees. Unfortunately, that’s pretty much it on the positive side I've discovered so far.


Now, I think I’m done. If you made it this far, congratulations. You got to read all of my crazy conspiracy theory. Thoughts anyone?


Thanks,

--Matt


Too Long, Dont Read: I believe Aspergillus niger (black mold) causes mycosis. Read to find out why.

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## Scoly (Feb 25, 2019)

Dry Desert said:


> Please don't reply to this as thanks to people like yourself I am closing my account.


Now now... I have not insulted you, or attacked you in any way. I corrected your incorrect facts (and did so politely, even apologising for doing it before I did) And yes, I did put you in your place _a little_ when you attempted to ridicule me, but I'm not quite sure what else you expected.

I hope you don't close your account and decide to stick around. You need to understand that it's not because someone corrects you that they are attacking you as a person. It's also not because you posted something totally wrong, once, that everyone else will think you're stupid. Everyone is wrong at times. However, if you refuse to be corrected, initiate an attack on the person correcting, or use other low debating tactics like exaggerating what they have said, then yes, people will start to think a lot less of you. In fact you will gain a lot more respect from people by having a constructive attitude towards being wrong and corrected, than you ever will by being right.

Some other things I feel you could really do with being told:

If your response to being corrected is to attack the other person instead of admitting you got your facts wrong and learning from it, then you will never really learn, grow, progress or be respected by intelligent people.
If your response to being put in your place for such a response is to blame it all on the _other_ person for being nasty and then run away,  you will have serious trouble facing the real adversity in life.
My advice (which you didn't ask for but I'm giving you anyway) would be to seriously improve your response to these kind of scenarios, as they are going to repeat themselves throughout your life again and again, and how you respond has a massive impact on how much you'll learn, how far you'll get, and how good you'll feel - more than you can ever imagine. These things are not set, they can improve with practice as well as deteriorate with complacency. 

Given where you're at, I'd say what you really need is a nice safe place where you can teach yourself to respond better, like an online gym. Perhaps some forum which is more fact-oriented rather than opinion-based (but not pedantically so), in a field which you already possess some knowledge of, where your name will be recognised but you are still kind of anonymous, where most people are nice and interested in the pursuit of knowledge rather than just bashing each other, and the people and share an interest with you, even if some are a bit sarcastic. That kind of place would be a golden opportunity not to be missed, and certainly not one to throw out on a whim 

Anyway, hate me all you like, that was me reaching out to you.

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## l4nsky (Feb 25, 2019)

Just spitballing here, but what about Pimafix baths? Its proven safe for marine invertebrates like coral and God knows how sensitive they are.

Thanks,
--Matt


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## REEFSPIDER (Feb 26, 2019)

l4nsky said:


> Just spitballing here, but what about Pimafix baths? Its proven safe for marine invertebrates like coral and God knows how sensitive they are.
> 
> Thanks,
> --Matt


I don't know about baths but I have heard of some keepers over seas implicating the use of intravenous antibiotics to treat mycosis in both scorpions and centipedes. The info I've gotten is very minimal but they imply this is the best method for treating mycosis internally. As far as recommended dosing or even suggested antibiotic I have no clue.

I also just want to reiterate the purpose of this thread is not to create some new 1 way cures all end all be all solution, but more an opening up of more on the theory and similar theories aswell as sharing data with those who care to contribute their own data or theories. It's up to keepers to do what they want and I'm not looking to 'tell keepers' anything. If this information becomes beneficial to the hobby, well good. If not, i enjoyed hearing Almost everyones replies. Cheers


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## Dry Desert (Feb 26, 2019)

Scoly said:


> Now now... I have not insulted you, or attacked you in any way. I corrected your incorrect facts (and did so politely, even apologising for doing it before I did) And yes, I did put you in your place _a little_ when you attempted to ridicule me, but I'm not quite sure what else you expected.
> 
> I hope you don't close your account and decide to stick around. You need to understand that it's not because someone corrects you that they are attacking you as a person. It's also not because you posted something totally wrong, once, that everyone else will think you're stupid. Everyone is wrong at times. However, if you refuse to be corrected, initiate an attack on the person correcting, or use other low debating tactics like exaggerating what they have said, then yes, people will start to think a lot less of you. In fact you will gain a lot more respect from people by having a constructive attitude towards being wrong and corrected, than you ever will by being right.
> 
> ...


As a FINAL note especially for you and not directed at anyone one else on this forum. Obviously you are one of these that likes to give out an awful lot, but not very happy on having a little back.

Regarding me learning things etc. as I go through life,

I am 72 years old, have been keeping and breeding scorpions since 1978 when I spent 10 years in Saudi Arabia collecting and studying scorpions whilst there.

I now have 47 scorpions in my collection - NONE of which have Mycosis.

So I made the obviously FATAL error of thinking fungus and bacteria were one of the same --- BIG DEAL.


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## l4nsky (Feb 26, 2019)

REEFSPIDER said:


> I don't know about baths but I have heard of some keepers over seas implicating the use of intravenous antibiotics to treat mycosis in both scorpions and centipedes. The info I've gotten is very minimal but they imply this is the best method for treating mycosis internally. As far as recommended dosing or even suggested antibiotic I have no clue.


Is it bad that I got a little bit of a chuckle out of picturing an S. dehaani pulling an IV cart around with its terminal legs?

I dont think we're really ever going to have a guaranteed cure. I mean, IV antibiotics might be highly effective, but I strongly doubt it would be available to your average keeper. At best, what we can hope for is some kind of general treatment that can knock back the infection enough to give the pede the advantage in the fight. That's why I'm thinking Pimafix. I've used it for years, in combination with Melafix, in my aquariums as both a broad spectrum treatment and preventative measure in newly acquired specimens for fungi (Pimafix) and bacteria (Melafix). It's all natural, made with extracts from the leaves of Pimenta racemosa which is known for antifungal properties.

Thanks,
--Matt

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Scoly (Feb 26, 2019)

Dry Desert said:


> As a FINAL note especially for you and not directed at anyone one else on this forum. Obviously you are one of these that likes to give out an awful lot, but not very happy on having a little back.
> 
> Regarding me learning things etc. as I go through life,
> 
> ...


And you did it again... 

No one is making a big deal about you confusing fungal and bacterial except you. You were corrected, and we moved on. 

No one is attacking you. You got corrected on some information and decided to initiate an attack. Instead of attacking you back I took the time to give you a bit of advice on how better to manage your response to things in life because you clearly need it. That was me attempting to help out what seemed to me to be a young person who still hasn't learnt not to take corrections as a personal attack. 

Now you can and launch a second attack implying I like to give but can't "have a little back", which kind of hits the nail on the head. I haven't been doing any "giving" of the kind you're talking about. Look through the messages, I have not once attacked you. As for me being able to "take a little back", I think calmly responding to your unprovoked attacks with reason and compassion instead of slipping into easy mode and ridiculing you covers that bit. 

Your age and time in the hobby are irrelevant, you will be treated according to the quality of the information you share and the maturity which you display in your interactions. 

So again, I implore you to stick around, and maybe re-read over the messages as many times as it takes for it to sink in that no one has attacked you, you were merely corrected on a couple of points which is no big deal, and everything else is just you throwing a tantrum at being wrong and trying to bully your way out by personal attacks, twisting words, waving your credentials around, and that despite all of that, we're still asking you to stick around instead of telling you to get lost.

Off the top of my head, I can't think of many other places on the Internet that would be so forgiving.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## l4nsky (Feb 26, 2019)

Scoly said:


> And you did it again...
> 
> No one is making a big deal about you confusing fungal and bacterial except you. You were corrected, and we moved on.
> 
> ...


Dont attack the messenger here, but maybe this is best taken to a private conversation to avoid derailing the thread?

Just a suggestion....

Thanks,
--Matt

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Dry Desert (Feb 26, 2019)

l4nsky said:


> Dont attack the messenger here, but maybe this is best taken to a private conversation to avoid derailing the thread?
> 
> Just a suggestion....
> 
> ...


No worries Matt - I'm done with this guy - but thanks.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Scoly (Feb 26, 2019)

Apologies all for the tangent dealing with an old man throwing his toys out the pram - I think it's best we just ignore him for the time being.

But back to mycosis, as this is getting interesting...

I think l4nsky's suggestion that mycosis is caused by _Aspergillus niger_ (i.e. black  mould) is pretty reasonable considering it responsible for many fungal infections in both plants and animals. One personal observation which supports the idea of common widespread species as opposed to specialist fungus imported from the centipede's habitats is that I have seen it develop in captive bred pedelings on fresh substrate. Interestingly, this has only happened jars, which obviously don't have the best of ventilation (in my experience, jars become stale air traps if they are anything but bone dry with a fully meshed lid)

We would really need to get some tissue sample tested in a lab to confirm, although I have a suggestion for an alternative test. If we could get a small sample of infected material from an animal (e.g. snip the end off an  infected antenna or leg) wash it in alcohol, and then set it on a semi-sterile substrate such as boiled fruit, and it grows into black mould, then we have a small bit of (pretty unscientific) support for the idea that we are dealing with a generalist species such as _Aspergillus niger _rather than an invertebrate specialising species. I say "semi-sterile" because the tissue sample itself will not be sterile. It's highly unscientific considering what else is liable to be on the fruit or the samples, but if repeated enough times, with control samples of fruit which do not come in contact with the infected tissue, and the infected samples show a _statistically significant_ higher incidence of black mould instead of other types of fungus, then we are onto something.

As for cures, has anyone thought of trying over the counter oral antifungals in the pede's water dishes? I'd be willing to try that if I ever get a clutch of "disposable" centipedes or other animals.

I've also heard garlic touted as a cure for various infections, and indeed there is even a study which suggests it may be effective against _Aspergillus niger: _https://academic.oup.com/jac/article/53/5/832/747152

The plus side of garlic is that centipedes will readily lap up garlic puree  so bar the high salt content of commercial garlic puree, this could be a useful help in the recovery of mycosis (note that I said 'help' and 'could be' - I am not for one second implying it is a cure)

Back to the experiment side, has anyone got any suggestions of an easily bred invertebrate which is prone to mycosis which we could run trials on? I'm thinking phasmids or the like..?

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## Greasylake (Feb 26, 2019)

Scoly said:


> I have a suggestion for an alternative test. If we could get a small sample of infected material from an animal (e.g. snip the end off an infected antenna or leg) wash it in alcohol, and then set it on a semi-sterile substrate such as boiled fruit, and it grows into black mould, then we have a small bit of (pretty unscientific) support for the idea that we are dealing with a generalist species such as _Aspergillus niger _rather than an invertebrate specialising species. I say "semi-sterile" because the tissue sample itself will not be sterile.


Would a petri dish work as well do you think? I have all the materials and have made a handful of them in the past with bacteria swabs.


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## l4nsky (Feb 26, 2019)

Greasylake said:


> Would a petri dish work as well do you think? I have all the materials and have made a handful of them in the past with bacteria swabs.


I know Aspergillus grows readily on Malt Extract Agar, as I've had a few dark mold contaminations on my mycelial culture plates over the years. We can probably go sterile instead of semi sterile for the cultures. There's a technique I've used for isolating mycelial cultures from small, wild collected mushrooms in the past. Typically, if you want sterile mycelium from unsterile mushrooms, you sterilize the outside of the mushroom, and then cut into the mushroom and take a piece or two from the inside, all under sterile conditions (sterilized glove box or a laminate flow hood). When the mushroom is to small, you can greatly reduce the number of contaminants from the initial culture by dipping a small piece in 35% hydrogen peroxide before adding it to the sterile media. Hydrogen peroxide prevents or kills spores from germinating, but doesnt harm living fungi as they create and use hydrogen peroxide. With this method, you only culture the already growing fungi, not any hitchhiker spores.

Thanks,
--Matt

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Greasylake (Feb 26, 2019)

l4nsky said:


> I know Aspergillus grows readily on Malt Extract Agar, as I've had a few dark mold contaminations on my mycelial culture plates over the years. We can probably go sterile instead of semi sterile for the cultures. There's a technique I've used for isolating mycelial cultures from small, wild collected mushrooms in the past. Typically, if you want sterile mycelium from unsterile mushrooms, you sterilize the outside of the mushroom, and then cut into the mushroom and take a piece or two from the inside, all under sterile conditions (sterilized glove box or a laminate flow hood). When the mushroom is to small, you can greatly reduce the number of contaminants from the initial culture by dipping a small piece in 35% hydrogen peroxide before adding it to the sterile media. Hydrogen peroxide prevents or kills spores from germinating, but doesnt harm living fungi as they create and use hydrogen peroxide. With this method, you only culture the already growing fungi, not any hitchhiker spores.
> 
> Thanks,
> --Matt


That sounds like a good idea. Fortunately (or unfortunately in this case) I don't have any pedes with mycosis so I cannot culture the fungus at the moment, but if the opportunity arises I'll be sure to give it a shot.

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## l4nsky (Feb 26, 2019)

Scoly said:


> As for cures, has anyone thought of trying over the counter oral antifungals in the pede's water dishes? I'd be willing to try that if I ever get a clutch of "disposable" centipedes or other animals.
> 
> I've also heard garlic touted as a cure for various infections, and indeed there is even a study which suggests it may be effective against _Aspergillus niger: _https://academic.oup.com/jac/article/53/5/832/747152


I'm still going with Pimafix. Aspergillus has been known to cause fungal infections in fish ((PDF) Incidence of Fungal Infection of Freshwater Ornamental Fish in Pakistan ResearchGate › publication › 259357060..., etc) and Pimafix is the frontline defense and first line offense against aquarium fungal infections. Its marine invertebrate safe, both for exposure and ingestion (they live and eat in the treated water), and all natural. I might see if my local pet store has a dehaani showing signs..... in the name of science. 

Thanks,
--Matt

Reactions: Like 2


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## Scoly (Feb 27, 2019)

Greasylake said:


> Would a petri dish work as well do you think? I have all the materials and have made a handful of them in the past with bacteria swabs.


Petri dishes are usually for sterile culture, so if have the kit (i.e. Pressure cooker etc) and feel confident you can isolate a clean sample of mycotic tissue (e.g. By cutting it open and getting a piece which has not come into contact with the air, which would be a pretty precise manoeuvre at the size we're talking about) then we're quids in. If you can't do all of the above then it's not sterile and we have to go by power of numbers.

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## Scoly (Feb 27, 2019)

l4nsky said:


> I'm still going with Pimafix. Aspergillus has been known to cause fungal infections in fish ((PDF) Incidence of Fungal Infection of Freshwater Ornamental Fish in Pakistan ResearchGate › publication › 259357060..., etc) and Pimafix is the frontline defense and first line offense against aquarium fungal infections. Its marine invertebrate safe, both for exposure and ingestion (they live and eat in the treated water), and all natural. I might see if my local pet store has a dehaani showing signs..... in the name of science.
> 
> Thanks,
> --Matt


I missed your earlier post on Pimafix, but this sounds very promising, might save us from calculating massive dilutions down from human doses for a start.

A dehaani clutch may be a good option for experimentation. Either that or S.mutilans. In fact, seeing that is a commercial species in China I wonder if any farmers have looked into fungal treatments. I'd venture to guess they avoid trouble by tweaking environment rather than resorting to medication but you never know... I have lost S.mutilans to mycosis so I know they're definitely susceptible to it.

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## Greasylake (Feb 27, 2019)

Scoly said:


> Petri dishes are usually for sterile culture, so if have the kit (i.e. Pressure cooker etc) and feel confident you can isolate a clean sample of mycotic tissue (e.g. By cutting it open and getting a piece which has not come into contact with the air, which would be a pretty precise manoeuvre at the size we're talking about) then we're quids in. If you can't do all of the above then it's not sterile and we have to go by power of numbers.


What equipment I don't personally own I can get access to, I have a microscope and blades I could use to make cuts as well as a means to sterilize everything. I can get sterile swaps as well. The only thing I don't have is a proper lab, so I would want to do multiple cultures for the sake of being prepared for possible contamination as well as making sure any growth isn't a fluke. I'm not sure what you mean by power of numbers? 

Any tips on what type of agar promotes fungal growth the best? I would need to get some as I've never cultured fungi before.


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## Scoly (Feb 27, 2019)

Greasylake said:


> What equipment I don't personally own I can get access to, I have a microscope and blades I could use to make cuts as well as a means to sterilize everything. I can get sterile swaps as well. The only thing I don't have is a proper lab, so I would want to do multiple cultures for the sake of being prepared for possible contamination as well as making sure any growth isn't a fluke. I'm not sure what you mean by power of numbers?
> 
> Any tips on what type of agar promotes fungal growth the best? I would need to get some as I've never cultured fungi before.


By power of numbers I meant repeating it enough times to show that it develops into black mould significantly more often than another type of fungus, which is what I imagine people would have done before sterile culture. 

For fungus, potato dextrose agar is the de-facto standard but this is black mould we're talking about, which grows on anything


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## Greasylake (Feb 27, 2019)

Scoly said:


> By power of numbers I meant repeating it enough times to show that it develops into black mould significantly more often than another type of fungus, which is what I imagine people would have done before sterile culture.


I firmly believe in doing as many replications as possible, my minimum is 3 but I prefer to do more. I wouldn't treat the cultures any different. 



Scoly said:


> For fungus, potato dextrose agar is the de-facto standard but this is black mould we're talking about, which grows on anything


That's true, maybe I'll just throw some wet insulation in the plate lol.

I'll make sure I have all the supplies and then I'll start to look into getting a sample from a pede with mycosis. This is gearing up to be a fun project.

Reactions: Like 2


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## TreebeardGoddess (Mar 4, 2019)

I'm totally geeking out over this thread! 
Sorry I have nothing to add except my moral support and I can't wait to see how these experiments develop!

Reactions: Like 2


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## MasterOogway (May 22, 2019)

Cross posting here in case not everyone sees the other thread, but I recently received a histo report back on a scorpion with a suspected mycosis case who then passed after some betadine treatments.  I'll paste the body of the histo report below for your reading pleasure.  I've also expressed my interest to the vet staff that I would very much like to try and  culture out the fungus the next time before preserving in formalin.  


*HISTORY*: This less than 2-year-old, male sculptured scorpion had an infection of the left forelimb that was treated with Betadine. The animal died spontaneously.


*CLINICAL DIAGNOSIS*: Fungal disease.


*GROSS*: Received in formalin is a scorpion that is processed in two blocks.


*MICROSCOPIC*: *Pedipalp*: At the articular joint, the cuticle has full thickness erosion and invasion by fungal hyphae that have right angle and acute branching and septation. Erosion is associated with melanization and infiltration by moderate numbers of hemocytes. The following tissues are histologically within normal limits: mediate gland, midgut diverticula, and booklungs.


*HISTOPATHOLOGIC DIAGNOSIS*: Moderate, regionally extensive, ulcerative dermatitis with intralesional fungi.



*COMMENT*: As suspected clinically, the primary problem in this case was the fungal infection on the pedipalp. The lesion was localized to a joint and was inflamed (hemocytes, melanin, etc.). Focal cuticular lesions can be fatal in arachnids due to loss of hemolymph, which can occur acutely or over several days with no clinical signs outside of depression. Exsanguination often follows even small cuticular lesions. This animal was in adequate nutritional status at the time of death as estimated by midgut diverticular storage contents.

Reactions: Informative 3


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## LeFanDesBugs (May 23, 2019)

Damn, how did I miss this thread!

First off, I wanna say that I, unfortunately, DO have a candidate in my care for testing and/or sample collection. An adult female E. rubripes platycephalus which should thankfully molt soon and recover, but then that means I'll be able to take some cuticle bits out of the container for study! If she does end up dying, which is still a possibility, I'd be willing to get samples and ship them to anyone capable of analyzing them.

Now, I do want to point out that some species are much more prone to mycosis than others. This species, for instance, is the only one that has ever developed mycosis in my care and I don't think that's a coincidence. I already lost my male to mycosis. The female was in pristine condition when she came to me.
Their original habitat seems very interesting to me: Solomon Islands.

I do want to shime in and stress the fact that we do not have a clear picture on the diets of these animals. Much like reptiles, don't they need additional nutrients and minerals that we simply don't provide them with? Lack of these nutrients could in fact lead to immune system failure, weakening the individual and exposing it to infections.
What drew me to this theory is E. rubripes platycephalus' habitat: Solomon Islands. A very humid habitat. Yet, obvisouly, the species isn't decimated by fungi in nature, in a place that's extremely humid. Why is that? I've come to think of a potential reason: salt. The Solomon archipelago is, obviously, surrounded by the ocean. There must be high levels of salt content everywhere, even inland. Something that we simply don't provide island species with. And salt dries out everything. This is something I thought about, and I believe it might be worth considering.

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## Odium (May 23, 2019)

Well, i never had mycosis problems with my pets (T's mostly, and 2 cingulatas), but if I ever face some signs of external mycosis on my pedes or T's, I would probably try several approaches:

1) Ultraviolet baths, at least once per day - most of parasitic fungi do not tolerate it.

2) External treatment with antimycotic agents after CO2-knockout. Concentrations and exact type needs some investigation.

3) Lowering the humidity level, ofc.

If at least one approach works, it may be possible to keep the animal alive before purifying moult saves it.


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## LeFanDesBugs (May 24, 2019)

Ultraviolet light could be something to try, assuming the rays don’t harm the centipede itself.


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## MasterOogway (May 24, 2019)

LeFanDesBugs said:


> Ultraviolet light could be something to try, assuming the rays don’t harm the centipede itself.



I'm not sure I'm convinced.  UV light doesn't penetrate very far into anything, and don't we think that's why these fungi cause the increased melanization of tissue?  To specifically protect themselves against UV light?  I mean, I guess if the fungus is eroding the cuticle and there is a way for UV to get to everything than potentially. But IDK.  Color me skeptical I suppose.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## LeFanDesBugs (May 24, 2019)

Isn’t the fungus completely exposed on the exoskeleton?


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## MasterOogway (May 24, 2019)

LeFanDesBugs said:


> Isn’t the fungus completely exposed on the exoskeleton?


Is it?  I mean I have no idea tbh; I'm no mycologist. I figured there was some sort of spore/growth on the surface, but wouldn't the hyphae of the fungus penetrate down into the sub-cuticular region? Otherwise, what's the point of the fungus causing the increased melanization of the cuticle?


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## LeFanDesBugs (May 24, 2019)

I’m not sure it should be interpreted as increased melanization. I’m no mycologist either, but I’d only interpret the dark spots as the appearance of pigment, which would rather be a byproduct of the fungus’ activity, or even the fungus itself. 
To sum my idea up, I don’t necessarily think the black spots are this specific colour to protect the fungus from radiation.. 
To my knowledge, there’s no clear evidence that the species of fungus we’re dealing with spreads in a subcutaneous manner.. ?


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## MasterOogway (May 24, 2019)

I'm under the assumption that this fungus (or collection of fungi, who even knows) uses pigmentation to avoid harmful UV exposure, as is pretty well documented in several other fungi. This could be totally wrong though, I'll be the first to admit.   An interesting post I found a while back while reading on this topic can be be found on http://atshq.org/boards/viewtopic.php?t=15814, in the second post (not sure about 'legality' of linking another forum here, mods feel free to remove if it violates TOS).  They talk about melanization of the cuticle as protection, and the hyphae essentially penetrating down through the cuticle into the haemolymph at which point it can pretty much circulate in the organism for an indefinitely long time.

Reactions: Informative 2


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## Scoly (May 25, 2019)

Really interesting stuff here.

The theory of pigmentation of cuticle to limit UV exposure is interesting, although there are a few things to take into account:

Centipedes are not know for being out in the sun.
If Aspergillus niger is indeed the culprit, it is black anyway, and may explain the black we see.
Centipede's exoskeletons turn black in response to damage anyway (broken legs have black stubs)
Which is not to say that's not exactly what is happening.

In the article linked by @MasterOogway, the poster mentions looking for an internal treatment, which makes total sense as exoskeletons are rather impervious, so it's unlikely that topical application will be effective, unless the compound can penetrate.

As @LeFanDesBugs suggestion on salt or minerals for general health, I think he could really be onto something, for three reasons:

Scolopendras predominantly hang out under stones, which attract condensation, so if centipedes drink in the wild (let's assume they do) then it is most likely to be from water droplets formed on stones, which may well have a small mineral content. Or they drink from puddles, which will have plenty mineral dust in them.
Scolopendras go crazy for salty food, like fish, garlic paste, processed meats etc...
I read a field report on Scolopendra gigantea in Trinidad (the black variety) where the author was convinced they ate a type of local hazelnut which provided calcium. I really wish I still had a copy of it. But he's not the only person to have noted the importance of calcium in diet of arthropods.
So it could be that how we keep centipedes, with our treated tap water, habitats made solely of organic materials, and staple livefoods, we are failing to provide them with enough mineral content. Maybe spraying a stone is a better way to offer pedes a drink?

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## l4nsky (Feb 17, 2021)

I'm reviving this thread in the hopes that we can get some participants that might be able to provide experimental data on some of the theories put forth. We had a lot of excellent collaboration and brainstorming. I for one haven't gotten back into pedes. Has anyone pursued this further?

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## TooManyCooks (Oct 30, 2022)

Super duper late to this thread, but i have a new(ish) pede that came with mycosis, and recently i noticed a very, very mild progression of mycosis on the terminal coxa (is that what you call them?). so i am going to try some of these ideas out.

the mention of mold/fungi being affected by PH caught my attention, since the substrate im using has high acidity. I dont want to disturb my pede by rehousing it, so I crushed up limestone pieces and mixed it with water, and thoroughly sprayed down the tank. i also created a pocket of these limestone beads deeper within the substrate in an attempt to turn the soil basic (which, according to this thread, will affect the mycosis).

I also added 3 or so drops of that lime-stone water to it's water dish, which i have yet to see it drink from. The substrate is too deep to completely dry out, but i keep the top inch or so bone dry, since the pede doesn't seem to burrow any deeper than that anyways. The lid of the enclosure is a metal mesh, so there is plenty of ventilation. It has to take turns sharing a heat lamp with an asian forest scorpion, so it gets a heat source on one side of its tank, every other day, for roughly 8-10 hours at a maximum temp of 85F (29C). At this time of year, temperatures average 70-75F. Sooner than later i will have a permanent heat supply for the both of them.

Currently reviewing possible dietary adjustments, like the inclusion of vertebrate prey and salty foods. Currently the pede has been eating lobster roaches, waxworms, and giant mealworm pupae.

So far, the pede has actually become _less_ active since these changes, although this pede was unusually active, even during the day, so perhaps it's just reverted to normal behavior. 

I will keep updated if anything noteworthy happens, hopefully this will be a positive experience for everyone, centipede included!


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