# No Pokie in my home



## whitehaze2008 (Apr 1, 2010)

I have since changed my mind on any pokie. 
I was going to get an adult female metallica but no.....not after reading the horrible effects of their bites. I knew of the pain, but now I have found some reports of apparent near cardiac arrest......I already have a sweet tooth and dont need to complicate things any further than what they are lol 

So instead I will get a Bicegoi or a goliath pinktoe.....


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## JTC5150 (Apr 1, 2010)

You can't go wrong with Avics.


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## whitehaze2008 (Apr 1, 2010)

*I just wonder*

What caused the drastic difference in venom toxitity with the Pokies.....
And after reading literally all night on medically signifigant spider bites - the pokies have a wide range of time the pain can reappear. Its very weird. Does anyone know any information on this?:?


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## Cirith Ungol (Apr 1, 2010)

Really, if you just keep them correctly, feed them correctly and treat them with the respect they deserve, there is a near 100% chance you won't ever be bitten by any T. Tarantulas are about the most predictable animals I've come across really and if you follow "procedure" to make sure you and the T are safe at all times, then you can interact quite well with them without having to risk injury or death on either side.


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## Vidaro (Apr 1, 2010)

Cirith Ungol said:


> Really, if you just keep them correctly, feed them correctly and treat them with the respect they deserve, there is a near 100% chance you won't ever be bitten by any T. Tarantulas are about the most predictable animals I've come across really and if you follow "procedure" to make sure you and the T are safe at all times, then you can interact quite well with them without having to risk injury or death on either side.


+1 to that.
+1 to you cant go wrong with avics also
i started off with 0 info on T's with a C. crawshayi and a Chaetopelma olivaceum and never got bitten so far in the 2 years ive been keeping T's and i intend to keep it that way 
Wether u keep Tigers or T's as long as ur carefull,respectfull and know the risks ur taking there shouldn't be any problems.


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## barabootom (Apr 1, 2010)

whitehaze2008 said:


> I have since changed my mind on any pokie.
> I was going to get an adult female metallica but no.....not after reading the horrible effects of their bites. I knew of the pain, but now I have found some reports of apparent near cardiac arrest......I already have a sweet tooth and dont need to complicate things any further than what they are lol
> 
> So instead I will get a Bicegoi or a goliath pinktoe.....


There are lots of great species that have mild venom.  I applaud you for taking the time to look at bite reports and making your T decisions based on knowledge and your own wants.  I also think Avics are great.  I don't currently have any pokies but I have kept them in the past. I may keep them again someday.  I think the venom effects vary greatly based on the individual being bit (size, weight, constitution, allergies, ??), the amount of venom injected, and the size and specie of the T.  There are lots of variables.


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## paul fleming (Apr 1, 2010)

As far as T venom goes,pokies must be very near the top of the chain but saying that,just be careful and don't take any chances and you should be fine.
All my pokies in communes (rufilata,fasciata and regalis) would much rather run and hide than confront you.If one does bite you,it is probably going to be as a last resort.They will not set out to tag you on purpose.
I think you are missing out by not trying to keep this wonderful and colourful species.
BTW metallica are known to be a "beginner" pokie as opposed to some of the faster ones.


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## Travis K (Apr 1, 2010)

GOOD, that leaves more pokies for everyone else:clap:;P:clap:


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## GartenSpinnen (Apr 1, 2010)

They really are not as bad as people make them out to be. Although they have strong venom, I am learning that they are usually more interested in running and hiding than rearing up, like Asian OW's for example. I have seen more defensive behavior out of my G. pulchripes than any of my pokies thus far.


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## Cirith Ungol (Apr 1, 2010)

Personally the most "dangerous" T I ever had was my G. rosea male. He was the devil in an eight pack! He'd strike the first thing he did, before he'd even know what was going on! What I wanna say by that is - it's really hard to label T's according to their species. Yes, some have "preferences" of behaviour, but that's as far as I would stretch it myself.


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## Teal (Apr 1, 2010)

jadespider1985 said:


> I have seen more defensive behavior out of my G. pulchripes than any of my pokies thus far.


*

I agree!

Well, I don't have a G. pulchripes... but I have similar species.

My pokie has been lovely so far... never had a problem with him, even during rehousing. 

The biggest thing I worried about with him is the speed, but now that I've dealt with half a dozen OBTs I worry about that a lot less! 

I also commend you on researching a species before getting it, and making the decision if the species is right or not for you. There's nothing wrong with getting Avics instead! (I would suggest juvies/adults over slings though)*


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## Jilly1337 (Apr 1, 2010)

I've kept Pokies in the past but I have also decided not to keep any right now because I have a small child at home.  He is under 50 lbs and I don't want to take the chance.  That being said, I've kept 100's of spiders through the years and never even witnessed a bite from any of them.  Jason has 2 pokies so I can get my fix at his house.  

Of all of his spiders, his P. cancerides is the quickest to rear up of all.   It goes right into threat pose every time his KK is opened.  Mine are all pretty chill.  Fast, but chill.


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## titus (Apr 1, 2010)

I have to agree. My OBT, H. lividum, and even one rosie I had were much worse then my pokies are. My G. pulchripes was bad but it passed as she aged She's my oldest at the moment almost 4 years now.


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## whitehaze2008 (Apr 1, 2010)

*Hum*

Well I dunno I may have to collaborate with the owner and make sure she has held the T before and its not aggressive. Dunno......:?


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## rustym3talh3ad (Apr 1, 2010)

whitehaze2008 said:


> Well I dunno I may have to collaborate with the owner and make sure she has held the T before and its not aggressive. Dunno......:?


tho handling the "no-no's" (pokies, s.cal and h.mac just to name a few) is awesome and it gives u quite a rush it is not necessary, so dont feel as if u NEED to be able to hold your beautiful T. he/she is well worth just observing and having as a show piece of your elite collection. i have held many of pokies including the metallica, and even tho i know damn well i WILL be bit some day im comfortable with the idea and i make sure that during ANY handling or upkeep i am very respectful of the T and make sure that it is comfortable with what im doing. 

outside of wanting to handle your T's id say go for broke...get ur metallica and just be very careful...its better to regret doing something then to regret not doing it.


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## Singapore_Blue1 (Apr 1, 2010)

*P.metallica*

In my opinion P. metallica are the most docile Pokie you can own. I've owned several different species and the P. metallica I had could be free handled regularly. I'm not telling you that this is ok but I never had a threat display. Just use common sense. People make these out to be really bad which it is really bad if you get bit but they are not aggressive and will hide rather than fight. There are many other T's in my collection that I feel would be more likely to tag me. By the way My A. versicolor is one of them so an Avic isn't always the safer bet. Venom is less powerful with an Avic though.


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## pouchedrat (Apr 1, 2010)

I was trying to decide the same thing with bringing a pokie home or not, but my reasoning is because I have a 4 year old with some "issues" and we were trying for a baby as well at the time (I am now 14 weeks pregnant!) and since I'm the sole care-taker of the tarantulas, I was worried a Pokie bite would have horrible effects on an unborn baby.  While my son is incredibly hyperactive, he does know to leave the tarantulas alone and has never shown an interest in handling them.  

Well, I went ahead and did get a P. fasciata sling, deciding to go with a sling to grow into it, and when it's large enough the enclosure WILL have locks on it.  Someday I would like a P. metallica, but only when slings are available since I like growing into them.  

Quite honestly, this Pokie isn't nearly as fast as some of my New World T's, and far more predictable.  I bought some Holothele incei slings at the same time, and nearly lost them while unpacking!   Also, my third or fourth tarantula was my female blue fang, and if you've never seen one teleport then you're missing out on a lot.  All in all, Pokies, while having a bad venom, at least they're a bit more predictable and not SUPER lightning fast, just somewhat fast.  I think the bite reports made them out to be something worse than they really are.  On that note, I do everything in my power NOT to get bit, though.  And even then, I've had T's teleport up my tongs and across my arm while trying to feed them (blue fang namely, GBB in a spurt of energy, as well)

I also picked up my first rose hair last week, and she threat poses and tries striking every chance she gets!   she's pretty slow compared to other T's, but she doesn't miss a chance to try to get a bite in.


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## paul fleming (Apr 1, 2010)

I think the general consensus here is get your metallica (the more docile pokie ) and just be careful,as careful as you normally are around anything that could hurt you.
You really will be missing out big time if you don't and on this,I do speak from experience.
Before too much longer,I bet you will start keeping communes which is the best buzz of all.
Paul
ps....we have a 10 year old boy and as long as you lay down the ground rules,there should be no problem.


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## Venom (Apr 1, 2010)

Honestly, I don't see anything wrong with his decision. He's aware that very unpleasant results can occur from a Pokie bite, and whether it's likely to happen or not ( which is highly debatable ), he is unwilling to take a risk on the possibility of the "what if" scenario.

Consider this: you have a C4 bomb in your house, but as long as you are careful, and follow certain rules, that bomb is *almost* guaranteed to never go off, so you're really pretty safe, right? Well, that is what you are arguing, Cirith: ignore the consequence, and focus on the probability that it won't happen. 

What I'm saying, is that if you are not ok with that consequence EVER happening, even if there is a slim chance, then you should avoid the situation altogether.

*Only get a spider that you are OK being bitten by, should the worst happen. *

That said, I could point to PLENTY of experts getting tagged by their Pokies, Haplos, etc. Check out the Darrin Vernier P. regalis bite....or the bite which RobC experienced... http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=140875

Darrin and Rob are expert, long-term keepers....and the bite can still happen. So DON'T get a spider banking on never being bitten. Know, KNOW, that anything you bring into your home could bite/ sting you...and don't get anything you are not willing to endure an envenomation from.


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## paul fleming (Apr 1, 2010)

I don't agree with the part about only keeping spiders you are ok to get tagged by.
I keep,amongst other,very nasty things,Sicarius hahni :?
I am sure as hell not ok with getting tagged by that or any of the others for that matter.


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## andy375hh (Apr 1, 2010)

Its all up you and what you feel that you are comfortable keeping. I didnt get into pokies until I felt that I was ready and able to keep them properly. My wife would only let me keep Pokies or Hot Scorpions if I had a locked cabinent to keep them in. just dont ever take chances with them, like sticking your hands in the tank. Even if they are more apt to run away I still wont take any chances with them. Now I have 8 pokies and luv em all.


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## Talkenlate04 (Apr 1, 2010)

Id take a bite from a pokie over the hairs of a bicegoi any day. Bicegoi hairs make blondi hairs seem like childs play. I don't even know what a pokie bit feels like but it has to be better than the bicegoi hairs.


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## paul fleming (Apr 1, 2010)

I have no plans to get tagged by any of them
A friend just got tagged by a H.mac and she was in a very bad way.....ambulance and hospital for observation.
She is normally on here as well so she may tell you all herself.
From what I have read....a pokie is in a different league


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## pouchedrat (Apr 1, 2010)

considering people keep some rather deadly spiders and scorpions, as well as venemous snakes and lizards, I don't think they really have the mind set of "I'm comfortable being bit by them so I'll keep them".  Although honestly I think I'd rather be bitten by one of my T's than the neighbor's dog, I don't think I'd survive an attack from that thing.  

I mean I understand where you're coming from.  There's a reason I'm dead set against guns and refuse to allow them anywhere near where I live.  I know my kid and his super-mechanical skills would figure one out fast.  The same goes for matches and lighters, and anything that could start a fire.  
Even then, my son is 4 years old, autistic and ADHD and even he knows not to touch the tarantulas or any pet except ones that are allowed out of their cage and I say it's ok.  He knows not to touch strange animals outside without permission, and that ANYTHING can bite.  Including classmates, lol.  I think he has a greater connection with animals than with humans though.... 

It's just always be careful, watch what you do, KNOW what COULD happen with what you keep, and do everything in your power to prevent it.  If you don't feel comfortable with it, then definitely DO NOT get it.  What's ok for one person may not be for another, after all.


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## Venom (Apr 1, 2010)

paul fleming said:


> I don't agree with the part about only keeping spiders you are ok to get tagged by.
> I keep,amongst other,very nasty things,Sicarius hahni :?
> I am sure as hell not ok with getting tagged by that or any of the others for that matter.


Then either: 

1: You are fooling yourself that you will never have an accident.

or

2: The enjoyment of keeping the "nasty things" is worth the risk of possibly being heinously destroyed by one of them someday.


Unless you are an absolute PRO, neither one is the height of rationality.....


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## paul fleming (Apr 1, 2010)

Ask anyone who keeps hots  if they expect or think it's ok to get tagged......I know what the answer will be ?
I have never ever heard anyone come out with this saying.......on my side or your side of the pond before......a new one on me.
If that was the way people thought,no one would ever keep any spider,snake or scorpion.
*
Only get a spider that you are OK being bitten by, should the worst happen.*

ps....last thing I want is to fall out but it just seems such a strange thing to tell someone.
 Although accidents can happen,they should not be expected to happen , in my opinion of course.


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## jayefbe (Apr 1, 2010)

Venom said:


> Then either:
> 
> 1: You are fooling yourself that you will never have an accident.
> 
> ...


That's like saying "only get a car if you're ok with being in an accident" or "only get a dog if you're ok with being attacked by it"....totally ridiculous.

It's always a possibility, but seriously, I have a bunch of OW arboreals and level 5 scorps.  I'm not going to be tagged because it is easily prevented.  Some of it takes experience, and some of it is just common sense, but avoiding a bite or sting is not difficult.  I'm not saying be naive to the potential dangers, but an experienced and diligent keeper is perfectly capable of keeping hots without being bitten.


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## paul fleming (Apr 1, 2010)

jayefbe said:


> That's like saying "only get a car if you're ok with being in an accident" or "only get a dog if you're ok with being attacked by it"....totally ridiculous.
> 
> It's always a possibility, but seriously, I have a bunch of OW arboreals and level 5 scorps.  I'm not going to be tagged because it is easily prevented.  Some of it takes experience, and some of it is just common sense, but avoiding a bite or sting is not difficult.  I'm not saying be naive to the potential dangers, but an experienced and diligent keeper is perfectly capable of keeping hots without being bitten.


Exactly


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## JC (Apr 1, 2010)

If you are not comfortable with keeping something, don't get it. It is as simple as that. And you will not really be missing out on anything, because it is really not worth fearing something that you are supposed to enjoy just because _other_ people do it.


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## Arachnoholic420 (Apr 1, 2010)

JC said:


> If you are not comfortable with keeping something, don't get it. It is as simple as that. And you will not really be missing out on anything, because it is really not worth fearing something that you that you are supposed to enjoy just because _other_ people do it.


most logical post with out getting lost in translation..... simply short and simple if ppl cant grasp this... i dont what will  +1.... 


tnx JC you read my mind...


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## Mad Hatter (Apr 2, 2010)

Venom said:


> Honestly, I don't see anything wrong with his decision. He's aware that very unpleasant results can occur from a Pokie bite, and whether it's likely to happen or not ( which is highly debatable ), he is unwilling to take a risk on the possibility of the "what if" scenario.
> 
> Consider this: you have a C4 bomb in your house, but as long as you are careful, and follow certain rules, that bomb is *almost* guaranteed to never go off, so you're really pretty safe, right? Well, that is what you are arguing, Cirith: ignore the consequence, and focus on the probability that it won't happen.
> 
> ...


Venom, I completely agree with you.

I really commend the OP on the research done prior to buying a T. :clap:


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## whitehaze2008 (Apr 2, 2010)

*maby*

A juv female like 5 inch big.


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## Venom (Apr 2, 2010)

*It won't stay 5"... and regardless*



whitehaze2008 said:


> A juv female like 5 inch big.


Bite report from a 4" P. regalis.

http://arachnoboards.com/ab/showpost.php?p=1289668&postcount=9


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## sharpfang (Apr 2, 2010)

*Poecilotheria Metallica Keeping*



Travis K said:


> GOOD, that leaves more pokies for everyone else:clap:;P:clap:


O.K. Travis....I wanna C U hold a Pokie in a video Now 
{that Centipede was Crazy huge}



barabootom said:


> There are lots of great species that have mild venom.  I applaud you for taking the time to look at bite reports and making your T decisions based on knowledge and your own wants.  I also think Avics are great.  I don't currently have any pokies but I have kept them in the past. I may keep them again someday.  I think the venom effects vary greatly based on the individual being bit (size, weight, constitution, allergies, ??), the amount of venom injected, and the size and specie of the T.  There are lots of variables.


I compliment you on researching 1st, as well :clap:



paul fleming said:


> BTW metallica are known to be a "beginner" pokie as opposed to some of the faster ones.


With my Limited Pokie experience, I feel that, This seems to be true. 



rustym3talh3ad said:


> outside of wanting to handle your T's id say go for broke...get ur metallica and just be very careful...its better to regret doing something then to regret not doing it.


Unless Rust, you work at a Nuclear Missle facility.....And have ALWAYS wanted to Press the Big Red Button! 



jayefbe said:


> That's like saying "only get a car if you're ok with being in an accident" or "only get a dog if you're ok with being attacked by it"....totally ridiculous.
> 
> It's always a possibility, but seriously, I have a bunch of OW arboreals and level 5 scorps.  I'm not going to be tagged because it is easily prevented.  Some of it takes experience, and some of it is just common sense, but avoiding a bite or sting is not difficult.  I'm not saying be naive to the potential dangers, but an experienced and diligent keeper is perfectly capable of keeping hots without being bitten.


Accidents happen, yes......However, Like Josh says essentially: Can easily be prevented with, common sense and experience. You don't just Start out "juggling" simitars and flaming batons.....you work your way up to it 

For the record.....I think the OP is being responsible, and wants to continue being. I feel that like other T-Hobbyists, he is alured by the Metallicas Beauty,
I know I am :drool: And I also feel that Venom, usually gives good advice.

But hey, Venom: I don't know Darrin, or his keeping skills.....But, Perhaps KARMA, had an interesting, Two-Fanged way of Biting these Experienced Hobbyists :?
Also - I expect 2 be bitten 1 day, cause, I tempt fate  - Jason


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## nakazanie (Apr 2, 2010)

Cirith Ungol said:


> Really, if you just keep them correctly, feed them correctly and treat them with the respect they deserve, there is a near 100% chance you won't ever be bitten by any T. Tarantulas are about the most predictable animals I've come across really and if you follow "procedure" to make sure you and the T are safe at all times, then you can interact quite well with them without having to risk injury or death on either side.


Very well said.  I like a voice of reason on here now and again. LOL!  

Nak


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## VESPidA (Apr 2, 2010)

Everything I wanted to contribute has been said.

It's probably unknown and incredibly variable, but I wonder what the odds are of ever having a bite from a pokie or other 'hot', among the avg enthusiasts who keep them and occasionally handle.  You're probably still much more likely to be in a car accident on any given day, if we're comparing risks (I'm not trying to denigrate that risk, however...)


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## gumby (Apr 2, 2010)

Cirith Ungol said:


> Really, if you just keep them correctly, feed them correctly and treat them with the respect they deserve, there is a near 100% chance you won't ever be bitten by any T. Tarantulas are about the most predictable animals I've come across really and if you follow "procedure" to make sure you and the T are safe at all times, then you can interact quite well with them without having to risk injury or death on either side.


While I agree with you I would also say that while you and I may have the ability to avoid being bit there are others out there who lack common sense so near 100%


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## paul fleming (Apr 2, 2010)

gumby said:


> While I agree with you I would also say that while you and I may have the ability to avoid being bit there are others out there who lack common sense so near 100%[/QUOTE
> 
> Has to be a wind up......No one with any sense would come out with anything like that.
> The word "smarmy" springs to mind.
> Lots of other words spring to mind too but I have to be very careful here.


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## cacoseraph (Apr 2, 2010)

paul fleming said:


> gumby said:
> 
> 
> > While I agree with you I would also say that while you and I may have the ability to avoid being bit there are others out there who lack common sense so near 100%[/QUOTE
> ...


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## Venom (Apr 2, 2010)

cacoseraph said:


> paul fleming said:
> 
> 
> > aren't you the person who makes the twitty posts holding androctonus and leirus and stuff?  you post almost exactly like him, if you are not
> ...


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## paul fleming (Apr 2, 2010)

cacoseraph said:


> paul fleming said:
> 
> 
> > aren't you the person who makes the twitty posts holding androctonus and leirus and stuff?  you post almost exactly like him, if you are not
> ...


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## gumby (Apr 2, 2010)

Please don't get all upset and look for hidden messages in simple text. My goal in that post wasn't to wind anyone up I just get nervous when anything is near a blanket statement. The 100% made me nervous. I am someone who prepares for the worst and hopes it never happens. I also get a little nervous when I see people trying to talk others into buying a T. They may not be ready for.

I have a few pokies now but it took me a few years to build up the confidence to try out the genus. I just recently sold a few pokies because I'm more then okay with being bit I would feel horrible if one got loose and tagged my roommates. I noticed my pokies are far more evasive then some of my other Ts so I have decided it wasn't worth the risk. 

Do I think I have a chane to be bit? yes!
Do I think you shouldn't buy something unless you know there is a chance you may be bit and are okay with that? Yes!
Do I ever want to be tagged by one of my pokies? No! But sometimes I wonder what it would be like.


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## paul fleming (Apr 2, 2010)

gumby said:


> Please don't get all upset and look for hidden messages in simple text. My goal in that post wasn't to wind anyone up I just get nervous when anything is near a blanket statement. The 100% made me nervous. I am someone who prepares for the worst and hopes it never happens. I also get a little nervous when I see people trying to talk others into buying a T. They may not be ready for.
> 
> I have a few pokies now but it took me a few years to build up the confidence to try out the genus. I just recently sold a few pokies because I'm more then okay with being bit I would feel horrible if one got loose and tagged my roommates. I noticed my pokies are far more evasive then some of my other Ts so I have decided it wasn't worth the risk.
> 
> ...


Dude.....the conversation is about the "person" who came out with......

*Only get a spider that you are OK being bitten by, should the worst happen.*

Do you agree with that ?
If that ever becomes the norm.......our hobby is finished.
Venom probably realises now how stupid that saying is.
I really wanted to let lose on you but I can't .


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## Mad Hatter (Apr 2, 2010)

paul fleming said:


> Dude.....the conversation is about the "person" who came out with......
> 
> *Only get a spider that you are OK being bitten by, should the worst happen.*
> 
> ...


Yes, I fully agree with Venom that you should NOT keep a spider or a T that you aren't comfortable taking a bite from.

I am a GIRL, and I am 100% OK with taking a bite from anything on my list of Ts (which you can see by looking at my profile), even the OBT (_P. murinus_). 

It isn't a compromise either, and I am not afraid of getting bitten. 

Mostly, I am afraid that if I were to get bitten, I might hurt one of my Ts in the process. 

To me, keeping the Ts I keep is well worth the price of possibly being bitten by one of them. 

I respect any keeper who has the common sense to NOT OWN a T they are not okay with being bitten by. 

Maybe the OP will change their mind over time, but it is downright _WRONG_ for experienced hobbyists to try and tell someone that they can and should keep a T they aren't comfortable with taking a bite from.


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## ShadowBlade (Apr 3, 2010)

paul fleming said:


> Venom is not correct.....far from it in fact..
> Venom did not say " if you don't keep a species it can't bite you"
> 
> This is what he said
> *Only get a spider that you are OK being bitten by, should the worst happen.*


No, but if taken in context, he is saying, "Don't get a species if you're not wanting a risk of being bitten".. By eliminating the threat, you neutralize the risk.



paul fleming said:


> The above statement is without doubt, crazy......that would put so many people off keeping anything.
> If everyone can't see how stupid that statement  is......I will leave and go back to the BTS.
> How many people would be in the hobby if that advice was dished out to everyone who fancied getting into T keeping ?


Come on, while you can certainly read that sentence with an upturned nose and take it up the butt like that, or you can be a bit more intuitive of what he's saying.

I am, and always have been, perfectly willing to accept that if I get bitten/stung by an invertebrate I keep its my fault, fullstop. Yeah, I handle them all too, but I know full well the risks, and am willing to accept them.
I firmly agree if you're not willing to accept that, then don't keep the species.



paul fleming said:


> Even though you are probably him,or his best mate.......surely you can see how idiotic that "statement" is ????


Caco? Being Venom? haha



paul fleming said:


> If that ever becomes the norm.......our hobby is finished.
> Venom probably realises now how stupid that saying is.


Why? Because people are prepared to accept the risk? 



paul fleming said:


> I really wanted to let lose on you but I can't .


Take your best shot 

-Sean


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## jayefbe (Apr 3, 2010)

Ok, here's my side of the argument:

Everybody that goes skydiving understands the risks.  If things go wrong, I'm dead.  Is everyone that goes skydiving ok with the dying part?  Of course not.  I guess if you're suicidal you can be ok with the consequences, but nobody actually IS.  It's not like it's an expected outcome of skydiving, it's just a very very remote possibility.  

To say that you should only keep a tarantula that you would be ok with being bitten by is like saying you should only skydive if you're ok with dying from it.  It's implying there is an EXPECTATION that you will be bit.  I'm not ok with that.  I keep tarantulas and scorpions with medically significant venom.  I am NOT ok with being tagged by one of them.  I understand that the mere fact of keeping them increases my chances of being tagged significantly, but I also understand that taking a few precautions will reduce those chances to zero.  I'm not ok with being tagged, so I take the necessary measures to make sure it will never happen.   

If I tempt fate, and choose to hold my pokies...well, then I should at least expect a bite.


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## Mad Hatter (Apr 3, 2010)

jayefbe said:


> To say that you should only keep a tarantula that you would be ok with being bitten by is like saying you should only skydive if you're ok with dying from it.


Actually, this is exactly why I don't go skydiving. Even though the risk is small, it is not worth even that amount of risk. At least not at this point in my life. Maybe when I am much older, the experience will outweigh possible negative consequences. 

So I keep Ts in the meantime, because it is a risk I can easily handle. 




jayefbe said:


> I'm not ok with being tagged, so I take the necessary measures to make sure it will never happen.


I would _*rather not be tagged*_, so I take the necessary precautions to make sure it is _*unlikely to happen*_, but I also accept that accidents can and will happen in any hobby involving live (and for the most part, wild) animals.



I think it is humorous that we are debating whether or not the OP made the right decision about not getting a T that he isn't okay with being bitten by. Whereas, if he had just announced "I'm getting a Pokie as my first T!" everyone would have jumped on his case about not having performed the proper research before getting a T with such potent venom. 

These poor newcomers to the hobby... they just can't win! Lol.

And the great thing about refraining from getting a Poecilotheria... is that the OP, whitehaze2008, can always change his mind and get one in the future when he feels comfortable owning such a beautiful and rewarding species.


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## jayefbe (Apr 3, 2010)

Yeah, really we're arguing over pedantic issues.  In the end, if you're not comfortable with a certain animal, then it's not for you.  I personally believe that accidents tend to happen when you are nervous, so it's best to gain experience with more newbie-friendly species.


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## titus (Apr 3, 2010)

There are alot of other T's that are more likely to bite than pokies, it's a factor of when/if you are bit. I've been keeping T's for year I don't free handle my T's, their moved from one box to another, without much worry. I don't look forward to being bit but I think due to my care, the risk is small that I will be. I also have no thought that it could never happen. Most the risk of being bit is brought on by the keeper. Rehousing is the most stressful time but even that can be made stress free by placing old housing in the new housing and letting the T move out on its own.


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## Mad Hatter (Apr 3, 2010)

jayefbe said:


> Yeah, really we're arguing over pedantic issues.  In the end, if you're not comfortable with a certain animal, then it's not for you.  I personally believe that accidents tend to happen when you are nervous, so it's best to gain experience with more newbie-friendly species.


True. And on the scorpion side of the hobby, what you say is true. Because there are a lot of _HOT_ scorpion species out there that I can't imagine anyone would be okay to take a sting from.


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## paul fleming (Apr 3, 2010)

I keep a little spider called Sicarius hahni and if I thought for one minute there was a good chance of me being bitten.....it would be history.
I take no chances with this although I have taken chances with a few others in the past but only when I knew there was an antivenin available for the species...unlike Sicarius of course.
As far as I am concerned,if you don't handle and take care,you will not get tagged.
I agree that the main point of this thread should have been about the OP and the pokie issue.
I apologise for going in a different direction.
I don't have a death wish BTW


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## Ms.X (Apr 3, 2010)

paul fleming said:


> *Only get a spider that you are OK being bitten by, should the worst happen.*
> 
> The above statement is without doubt, crazy......that would put so many people off keeping anything.
> If everyone can't see how stupid that statement  is......I will leave and go back to the BTS.


You don't need to be exactly ok with getting tagged by what you keep, but you do need to understand and accept the consequences should that happen. It's not the same as being 'ok' with it I suppose, but that's what I understood him to mean.

Oh, and I don't see that statement as being crazy at all...does that mean you'll leave now?  Oh wait, how can you go back to somewhere that you've been banned from?


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## xhexdx (Apr 3, 2010)

Ms.X said:


> Oh wait, how can you go back to somewhere that you've been banned from?


I was wondering this, too.

As far as the OP is concerned, if he doesn't want pokies, fine by me.  If he wants them, fine by me.  *shrug*


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## paul fleming (Apr 3, 2010)

xhexdx said:


> I was wondering this, too.
> 
> As far as the OP is concerned, if he doesn't want pokies, fine by me.  If he wants them, fine by me.  *shrug*


Where have you been Joe,hope it was nothing non life threatening.
Still a member of the the main T forum guys.....BTS.
Joe,I also keep and breed....snakes,scorpions,frogs T's,real spiders and Mini dachsunds.....how about you ?
Maybe your limit is reading a post,looking on the net and then contradicting people ?
I really keep them all as well Joe......unlike you.


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## xhexdx (Apr 3, 2010)

paul fleming said:


> Where have you been Joe,hope it was nothing non life threatening.
> Still a member of the the main T forum guys.....BTS.
> Joe,I also keep and breed....snakes,scorpions,frogs T's,real spiders and Mini dachsunds.....how about you ?
> Maybe your limit is reading a post,looking on the net and then contradicting people ?
> I really keep them all as well Joe......unlike you.


Why should I care about anything you keep or breed?


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## paul fleming (Apr 3, 2010)

xhexdx said:


> Why should I care about anything you keep or breed?


Hows about because you know zip about them....I am pretty sure you know zip about T's too and just look the stuff up on the net.
I have posted pics of me and my animals so I am not a liar.......how about you Joe ?
Do you actually keep anything ?


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## xhexdx (Apr 3, 2010)

paul fleming said:


> Hows about because you know zip about them....I am pretty sure you know zip about T's too and just look the stuff up on the net.
> I have posted pics of me and my animals so I am not a liar.......how about you Joe ?
> Do you actually keep anything ?


How does my knowledge about tarantulas have anything to do with what you keep or breed, considering most of them aren't tarantulas in the first place?

As far as what I keep, check my picture thread.  If you doubt me, I could care less.


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## paul fleming (Apr 3, 2010)

xhexdx said:


> How does my knowledge about tarantulas have anything to do with what you keep or breed, considering most of them aren't tarantulas in the first place?
> 
> As far as what I keep, check my picture thread.  If you doubt me, *I could care less*.


Does that mean you care or you don't care ?
Did you go to school by any chance ?
Payback is a bitch.
I also meant your knowledge is limited....you may......or may not know about T's but you know zip about any other animal and believe me....they all help you understand all the animals you keep.
Paul


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## Venom (Apr 3, 2010)

paul fleming said:


> Hows about because you know zip about them....I am pretty sure you know zip about T's too and just look the stuff up on the net.
> I have posted pics of me and my animals so I am not a liar.......how about you Joe ?
> Do you actually keep anything ?


xHexDx knows his stuff...

Paul Fleming... you're starting the trollish flame-fest.

As MsX said...





> You don't need to be exactly ok with getting tagged by what you keep, but you do need to understand and accept the consequences should that happen. It's not the same as being 'ok' with it I suppose, but that's what I understood him to mean.


The OP had reservations about the effects of being bitten. If knowing the effects of a possible bite makes him uncomfortable, then he shouldn't keep it. What's so crazy about that? Everybody should be aware that we are keeping venomous animals, and accidents can have consequences. If you're not willing to accept the consequences of an accident with a venomous animal, then you shouldn't keep it the illusion that you'll never even possibly be bitten...because you don't have that assurance. None of us do. I've been keeping inverts for 10 years, and I've never been bitten except by a few small, mostly insignificant true spiders. I've never been tagged by a T...but I don't delude myself thinking that I never will be. I might! Who knows! Therefore, I only keep what I can justify as "safe _enough"_ to the part of my mind that reminds me "dude, you're not immortal...stuff happens."

If you're eyeing a new T, scorp, spider etc...and you can't get past the consequences of "stuff happens," then the animal isn't for you.


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## paul fleming (Apr 3, 2010)

Venom said:


> xHexDx knows his stuff...
> 
> Paul Fleming... you're starting the trollish flame-fest.
> 
> ...


Is this the same clown that came out with...and I quote
*Only get a spider that you are OK being bitten by, should the worst happen. *

Do yourself a favour......stay where you are and never,never post anything like that in the UK please....we are trying trying to encourage T keeping and not put them off !


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## Exo (Apr 3, 2010)

paul fleming said:


> Do yourself a favour......stay where you are and never,never post anything like that in the UK please.


From what I saw, you were banned from the BTS forum, so apparently they said the same thing to you.


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## xhexdx (Apr 3, 2010)

paul fleming said:


> Is this the same clown that came out with...and I quote
> *Only get a spider that you are OK being bitten by, should the worst happen. *
> 
> Do yourself a favour......stay where you are and never,never post anything like that in the UK please....we are trying trying to encourage T keeping and not put them off !


It's funny when you say 'and I quote', yet you didn't put quotes...

Paul, you should really work on not calling people names who don't agree with you (and by my count, most people would fall into this category).

The boards have been fine without you here.  Maybe you should take the hint?


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## jayefbe (Apr 3, 2010)

Paul, really, you've been back for a couple days and already the same crap has started all over again.  It's not everyone else, it's you.  It's possible to debate an issue without resorting to name-calling and ad hominen arguments.  Seriously, get it under control.


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## paul fleming (Apr 3, 2010)

Exo said:


> From what I saw, you were banned from the BTS forum, so apparently they said the same thing to you.


"Were" was correct but not any more


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## Venom (Apr 3, 2010)

paul fleming said:


> Is this the same clown that came out with...and I quote
> *Only get a spider that you are OK being bitten by, should the worst happen. *
> 
> Do yourself a favour......stay where you are and never,never post anything like that in the UK please....we are trying trying to encourage T keeping and not put them off !


You need to be realistic!! Accidents happen! You can't encourage people to participate in the hobby in ignorance, unaware of the risks. That won't do the hobby any favors, in the UK OR here. People starting out in the hobby, should know that they are keeping a venomous animal--most species of which are fairly benign, urticating hairs aside, but the advanced animals like Pokies, Heteroscodra, etc..( which beginners shouldn't be keeping ANYWAY) DO have significant venoms which nobody should be exposed to without KNOWING and ACCEPTING the risks.

If the British hobby hobby is promoting the keeping of medically significant tarantulas without informing keepers of the risk, then you're doing your hobbyists a disservice.


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## paul fleming (Apr 3, 2010)

We all know the risks mate....as does everyone that keeps a pit bull.
You seem like a nice guy and I am sorry for arguing with you.
We are all here to benefit all of us and to help new keepers.
I would prefer that this thread was deleted.....It won't happen but there you go.
I am here only for knowledge and the welfare of my animals and it is a good forum.
I apologise and I  just seek knowledege.
Joe,sorry mate.
Paul


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## jayefbe (Apr 3, 2010)

Venom - I don't think anyone is saying that people shouldn't be aware of the risks that OW species come with.  I personally smack my head every time I see an immature person pick up a pokie that he knows nothing about.  In all seriousness, Paul has a bunch of hot inverts that I think he has no business keeping (seriously Paul, tailing and Andro?  And then posting pictures of it everywhere, like you're proud of your idiocy).  

My personal disagreement with your stance is that it seems as though you believe it is inevitable that anyone keeping a hot invert will be tagged by it.  Given proper care techniques and precautions, bites and stings should never happen.  Accidents do happen, but they happen to careless, inexperienced, or immature keepers.


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## paul fleming (Apr 3, 2010)

jayefbe said:


> Venom - I don't think anyone is saying that people shouldn't be aware of the risks that OW species come with.  I personally smack my head every time I see an immature person pick up a pokie that he knows nothing about.  In all seriousness, Paul has a bunch of hot inverts that I think he has no business keeping (seriously Paul,* tailing and Andro*?  And then posting pictures of it everywhere, like you're proud of your idiocy).
> 
> My personal disagreement with your stance is that it seems as though you believe it is inevitable that anyone keeping a hot invert will be tagged by it.  Given proper care techniques and precautions, bites and stings should never happen.  Accidents do happen, but they happen to careless, inexperienced, or immature keepers.


That was Androctonus mate (Androctonus australis) and not Andro.Did you go to the same school as Joe by any chance ?
Actually mate I posted a pic of handling an Androctonus australis and one of me tailing  a  Leiurus quinquestriatus
It is done and a big mistake on my part.....I no longer keep them except for hahni.
No more handling pics on my part.


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## xhexdx (Apr 3, 2010)

paul fleming said:


> I apologise and I  just seek knowledege.
> Joe,sorry mate.
> Paul





paul fleming said:


> Did you go to the same school as Joe by any chance ?


:wall:



paul fleming said:


> That was Androctonus mate (Androctonus australis) and not Andro.


Hmm...so is Andro not short for *Andro*ctonus where you're from? :?


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## paul fleming (Apr 3, 2010)

xhexdx said:


> :wall:
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm...so is Andro not short for *Andro*ctonus where you're from? :?


Joe,you know zip about scorps....best keep out mate.
WT<edit> are you doing here anyway.......been looking on the net again.......how <edit> sad are you ?
ps...no one ever calls Androctonus......andro
Start off with an emp joe and after a few years,I may talk to you and give you advice.


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## xhexdx (Apr 3, 2010)

paul fleming said:


> Joe,you know really know zip about scorps....best keep out mate.


Translated:



paul fleming said:


> Joe,you know you're right and I messed up, but I don't want to admit it.  I think I'll insult you instead to try to draw attention from my mistake.


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## J.huff23 (Apr 3, 2010)

I have to say that Joe does know his stuff. Read any of his posts and you'll see that he does know what he's talking about. 

Anyways, to the Original Poster, I used to be afraid of keeping Pokies, but when I did start keeping them I saw that they arent that aggressive/defensive. I have OBT's and other Ts that are more aggressive/defensive. I think that if you just respect the T and keep it properly, you should have nothing to worry about. But thats just MY opinion. I understand your concerns about the pokies venom though. Let us know if you do end up getting a pokie in the future.


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## Mad Hatter (Apr 3, 2010)

J.huff23 said:


> I think that if you just respect the T and keep it properly, you should have nothing to worry about. But thats just MY opinion. I understand your concerns about the pokies venom though. *Let us know if you do end up getting a pokie in the future.*


Agreed!


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## Talkenlate04 (Apr 3, 2010)

paul fleming said:


> Joe,you know zip about scorps....best keep out mate.
> WT<edit> are you doing here anyway.......been looking on the net again.......how <edit> sad are you ?
> ps...no one ever calls Androctonus......andro
> Start off with an emp joe and after a few years,I may talk to you and give you advice.


Both of you are not being very productive at this point. If you want to whip it out and sword fight go do it somewhere else. :barf:


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## BrettG (Apr 3, 2010)

Sweet Jesus,I dont even know Joe,or anyone else on this forum,but you are really coming out of pocket,Paul..I am not here to defend anyone,but have you EVER listened to yourself?........Good lord.........rather gargle bleach than keep on reading that worthless dribble...Does being banned damn near everywhere on the net not mean anyhting to you? Do you wear that like some sort of merit badge?


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## Beardo (Apr 3, 2010)

Am I the only one who has a hunch that Paul Fleming is an angry middle schooler? Or maybe he just plays one on the internet, lol.


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## sharpfang (Apr 3, 2010)

Mad Hatter said:


> These poor newcomers to the hobby... they just can't win! Lol.





Exo said:


> From what I saw, you were banned from the BTS forum, so apparently they said the same thing to you.





paul fleming said:


> "Were" was correct but not any more


LOL 



J.huff23 said:


> Anyways, to the Original Poster, I used to be afraid of keeping Pokies, but when I did start keeping them I saw that they arent that aggressive/defensive. I have OBT's and other Ts that are more aggressive/defensive. I think that if you just respect the T and keep it properly, you should have nothing to worry about. But thats just MY opinion. I understand your concerns about the pokies venom though. Let us know if you do end up getting a pokie in the future.


Especially the Metallica


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## gumby (Apr 5, 2010)

Venom said:


> You need to be realistic!! Accidents happen! You can't encourage people to participate in the hobby in ignorance, unaware of the risks. That won't do the hobby any favors, in the UK OR here. People starting out in the hobby, should know that they are keeping a venomous animal--most species of which are fairly benign, urticating hairs aside, but the advanced animals like Pokies, Heteroscodra, etc..( which beginners shouldn't be keeping ANYWAY) DO have significant venoms which nobody should be exposed to without KNOWING and ACCEPTING the risks.
> 
> If the British hobby hobby is promoting the keeping of medically significant tarantulas without informing keepers of the risk, then you're doing your hobbyists a disservice.


I agree with the above 100% and I agree with everyone else on this thread accept for the one person I put on my ignore list. Im sure I'm not the only one who used his ignore function after reading this.

I'd like to bring up that I think that there are a large number of people in the hobby who start off just as the OP did some may choose to own a pokie one day and some may not either way is fine but none of the new T owners should feel pressured into buying a more venomous T or scorp if they do not feel ready for it. Personally I'm more comfortable with my aussie Ts then my pokies everyone is different though.


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## IRON-BRU (Apr 5, 2010)

*lETS ALL WEIGH IN*

I'm a rather light weight keeper at this stage and i own only my favourite T's, after thuroughly researching them of course.

Ive been collecting for about three months now and am a propper noobe, but still i take the T's that i desire.
That, in my mind is exactly what makes collecting these gorgeous creatures  so much fun.

Istarted with B.Bohmei, on to AVIC AVIC & L. PARAHYBANA a day apart... My latest T. is as a matter of fact a P. REGALIS.

Now I agree in most part with every sensible post on here, I do agree that the absolute maximum should be done to ensure that you "know" the general characteristics of the T you'll be buying and that you should absolutely be AWARE and READY( NOT AT PEACE WITH) to deal with what would happen if you did get tagged.(hence i gave S. CALCEATUM a miss for my first love).

Point that I'm trying to make is the same as all o you.
Just love the T's.

You're mom didn't throw you to the curb when you made wee in her face when you were young, nor should you chuck the T when it chows down o you or your pet goldfish.

If your cool with the good times, the bad times tou'd take into your stride.
So what IF the Regalis gets me? It'll hurt... yes, but thats what i signed up for, the good and the bad baby. the pain and the pleasure, as well  as the eating of the aliens brains.

Anyway, Nice nice thread guys. Enjoyed reading it alot and it was rather informative and i enjoyed reading other keepers views.

Thanks agen guys, And i Joe knows his sh*t... From what i've seen...

just a ps. LOL


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## Blackbeard (Apr 6, 2010)

jayefbe said:


> That's like saying "only get a car if you're ok with being in an accident" or "only get a dog if you're ok with being attacked by it"....totally ridiculous.
> 
> It's always a possibility, but seriously, I have a bunch of OW arboreals and level 5 scorps.  I'm not going to be tagged because it is easily prevented.  Some of it takes experience, and some of it is just common sense, but avoiding a bite or sting is not difficult.  I'm not saying be naive to the potential dangers, but an experienced and diligent keeper is perfectly capable of keeping hots without being bitten.


This is the right attitude in my opinion.

For instance.
A lathe can be a heinously lethal deathtrap and it scares me more than any pokie ever could but it's use as a tool is perfectly accepted if handled with care.
I'm pretty sure you will have a very hard time finding a metal worker who is 'OK' with getting caught in his machine is worse comes to worst.

Getting bitten is preventable although there will always be a risk.
Weigh that risk against the benefits and go from there.
Choose acceptable risk instead of acceptable consequence.
If I had to choose the latter I wouldn't be able to leave the house.

*edit*


jayefbe said:


> Ok, here's my side of the argument:
> 
> Everybody that goes skydiving understands the risks.  If things go wrong, I'm dead.  Is everyone that goes skydiving ok with the dying part?  Of course not.  I guess if you're suicidal you can be ok with the consequences, but nobody actually IS.  It's not like it's an expected outcome of skydiving, it's just a very very remote possibility.
> 
> ...


Heh, turns out you made a similar argument in a follow up post and once again I completely agree.
This is the only way I can rationalise it.

Turns out the thread had already reached it's conclusion but it's been fun reading.
Including some bizarre flaming by a certain elite keeper on a vendetta...


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