# Lasiodora parahybana bites



## baf236 (Jun 20, 2008)

I noticed there are no bite reports for Lasiodora parahybana.  I have handled my 1 1/2 inch slings before -- never any bites but they are certainly very fast and skittish.  I just wondered has anyone ever tried to handle a juvenile or an adult.  Do they calm down a bit as they get older or do they stay about the same?  With no bites in the bite reports it make me think they aren't as aggressive as their reputation says.


----------



## Lennie Collins (Jun 20, 2008)

As with all tarantulas...they have the *ability* to bite. Their *first* line of defense is to run quickly. Their *second* is the urticating hairs. Their *last* if they really feel threaten is to bite. I got mine when she was 3 inches. She would run around her enclosure and kick urticating hairs when I just open her enclosure top. Now she is 6 inches and will oddly come out calmly to *"investigate"* when I open her enclosure to clean it out. I hold her a lot and she has *never* even hinted at biting me. They can be skittish BUT if you hold yours *ALOT* she/he will calm down. The urticating hairs are unbearable. I can now tolerate them even tough my 6 inch female *DOES NOT *kick her urticating hairs she is *still* itchy to a degree. Just handle yours frequently and keep in mind that she has the ability to bite and you will be alright.


----------



## GartenSpinnen (Jun 20, 2008)

Lennie Collins said:


> They can be skittish BUT if you hold yours *ALOT* she/he will come down.


This is bad advice IME. This is not a cat, or a dog, or anything along those lines. Handling them more will just stress them out more. I see nothing wrong with occasional handling but doing it all the time is not good. The way they react to handling is based mostly on the species, the time in the molt cycle, feeding response, etc. If they feel threatened they will bite. Do not rely on them to run and then kick hair and then bite. They may do none, or all of the above, or just flat out sink there fangs into you. By handling them you are accepting all of these risks. *They do not have the brain capacity to establish any sort of "bonding", this is an arachnid, they are VENOMOUS, ok? *
Cheers

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## GartenSpinnen (Jun 20, 2008)

baf236 said:


> I noticed there are no bite reports for Lasiodora parahybana.  I have handled my 1 1/2 inch slings before -- never any bites but they are certainly very fast and skittish.  I just wondered has anyone ever tried to handle a juvenile or an adult.  Do they calm down a bit as they get older or do they stay about the same?  With no bites in the bite reports it make me think they aren't as aggressive as their reputation says.


This species is not too bad to deal with. They can be defensive and skittish but not as bad as many others. I think they are more likely to kick hair, but CAN and WILL bite if they decide to do so. Handling any species that is skittish or defensive i do not recommend unless you have experience doing so. I have seen a couple specimens that were large and more docile though, but even they would kick hair on occasion.
Cheers


----------



## crpy (Jun 20, 2008)

im thinkin if a lasi bites you it wont be a fun experience, but we always need more research for the bite forum.....so

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Lennie Collins (Jun 20, 2008)

Jadespider1985...these are tarantulas and they are venomous I know that BUT *God* gave them a brain and a tarantula can use *it* to decide which defense method it wants to use. I have seen defensive tarantulas held without biting and I was bitten by an Aphonopelma Seemani, one of the so called docile ones. I hold all 14 soon to be 15 of my tarantulas daily and even some of my friends that work in pet stores are *amazed* how the intermediate ones I own are calm. I do not know who determined if holding a tarantula a lot stresses them out. If any animal does not want to be handled it will decide what it wants to do. I have a Pandinus Caveminus, a Red Caw Scorpion,  that when I first got him would pinch me and would *not let go*. I handled him *everyday* a week after I got him. Now when I pick him up I literially have to *scrape* him off of me to put him back in the cage. He *clings* on to my hand/wrist with his feet. I *rub* his back and even *handfeed *him. Does that sound like he is stressed out. How did he get like that? From me holding/handling him alot. He now realizes I am no longer a threat and he relaxes. I disagree sternly that handling tarantulas and scorpions stresses them out. Of course I do not offer this advice to the highly defensive or venomous ones. God gave us authority over all animals and we have the higher intelligence and common sense. I do use them when I handle my tarantulas and scorpions. Take care!


----------



## crpy (Jun 20, 2008)

Lennie Collins said:


> Jadespider1985...these are tarantulas and they are venomous I know that BUT *God* gave them a brain and a tarantula can use *it* to decide which defense method it wants to use. I have seen defensive tarantulas held without biting and I was bitten by an Aphonopelma Seemani, one of the so called docile ones. I hold all 14 soon to be 15 of my tarantulas daily and even some of my friends that work in pet stores are *amazed* how the intermediate ones I own are calm. I do not know who determined if holding a tarantula a lot stresses them out. If any animal does not want to be handled it will decide what it wants to do. I have a Pandinus Caveminus, a Red Caw Scorpion,  that when I first got him would pinch me and would *not let go*. I handled him *everyday* a week after I got him. Now when I pick him up I literially have to *scrape* him off of me to put him back in the cage. He *clings* on to my hand/wrist with his feet. I *rub* his back and even *handfeed *him. Does that sound like he is stressed out. How did he get like that? From me holding/handling him alot. He now realizes I am no longer a threat and he relaxes. I disagree sternly that handling tarantulas and scorpions stresses them out. Of course I do not offer this advice to the highly defensive or venomous ones. God gave us authority over all animals and we have the higher intelligence and common sense. I do use them when I handle my tarantulas and scorpions. Take care!


Ok, this is not an opening for an argument here we go.

First "T"s have ganglia, very primitive brain, in other bite reports people have said they held a "T" for long time and then all of a sudden got tagged. I think most people with experience are saying there is ALWAYS a risk, they are just advising you, you can do as you want but you have been warned.

And since you bring up GOD, GOD gave you the ability to make choices and he will let you make the wrong choice for the lesson, right. If you believe you go to heaveN when you croak, then GOD may say to you,YOU MADE THE WRONG CHOICE:razz:


----------



## Lennie Collins (Jun 20, 2008)

Crpy...I will put it like this! How do we know handling a tarantula "stresses' it out? Did someone actually test a tarantula's blood pressure when it was held? I read some of these comments on here and I noticed that even some of the comments can be exaggerated. First of all tarantulas are defensive not aggressive. They do not go out of their way to bite you. 3 days ago I opened the enclosure of a Haplopelma Minax and Pamphobeteus Species Ecuador and neither one ran out of their cage to try to bite me. They both ran away from the pen I stuck in there. I agree with you and that these tarantulas can bite unprovoked. I have had mines for 1 year now and no bites so far. The one time I got bite was in a pet store. The bite does not hurt you it's the venom that causes the pain. And God makes the decision who will enter Heaven *not *man!


----------



## Zoltan (Jun 20, 2008)

baf236 said:


> I noticed there are no bite reports for Lasiodora parahybana.  I have handled my 1 1/2 inch slings before -- never any bites but they are certainly very fast and skittish.  I just wondered has anyone ever tried to handle a juvenile or an adult.  Do they calm down a bit as they get older or do they stay about the same?  With no bites in the bite reports it make me think they aren't as aggressive as their reputation says.


As Ryan said in another topic, the G. rosea bite thread is the longest, but that doesn't make the G. rosea the most aggressive tarantula. I would advise not to handle Lasiodoras, but some people had success with them, including parahybana. It really depends on the individual spider.



Lennie Collins said:


> I have seen defensive tarantulas held without biting and I was bitten by an Aphonopelma Seemani, one of the so called docile ones.


I don't know where did you hear that A. seemanni is a docile one, but I think it is not. It's not overly aggressive, but I wouldn't call it "docile" (in T terms) at all.


----------



## crpy (Jun 20, 2008)

Lenny Collins,The stress factor may be to the individual"T,"  but a fact is critters eat "T"s and things that get eaten have instincts, fight/flight, that sort a thing.

I know the Ctenis captiosis, although a true spider will die of stress easily, fact.
 (I know we are talking "T"s)
I'm just throwing my 2 cents in, I've held "T"s also.



> God makes the decision who will enter Heaven not man!


And a Christian believes ,if they live there life the best they can according to the new testament they will get into heaven. 
PM me if you want further debate on God.


----------



## Lennie Collins (Jun 20, 2008)

Crpy...my name is spelled Lennie NOT Lenny. What test is this that shows tarantulas will die from stress. All I asked was what proof HOLDING a tarantula stresses it out. And belief along does not get you into Heaven. This faith has to have actions along with it.That is why the Bible is thick with pages. It does not have a single line that says faith/belief is all you need. Read Paul letters written to the various churches. It's God's standards to follow not man's! I am a disciple/christian and I am always wanting to talk God with people. Please e-mail me at nipseekamariejazz@yahoo.com if you would like to talk. Take care.


----------



## crpy (Jun 20, 2008)

Lennie Collins said:


> Crpy...my name is spelled Lennie NOT Lenny. What test is this that shows tarantulas will die from stress. All I asked was what proof HOLDING a tarantula stresses it out. And belief along does not get you into Heaven. This faith has to have actions along with it.That is why the Bible is thick with pages. It does not have a single line that says faith/belief is all you need. Read Paul letters written to the various churches. It's God's standards to follow not man's! I am a disciple/christian and I am always wanting to talk God with people. Please e-mail me at nipseekamariejazz@yahoo.com if you would like to talk. Take care.


Sorry for the Misspelling, I think maybe you need to here from somebody else on "T" stress,  I just believe they can get stressed and ill leave it at that.


----------



## Veneficus (Jun 20, 2008)

Lennie Collins said:


> First of all tarantulas are defensive not aggressive. They do not go out of their way to bite you.


Actually, this is not true.  I have a 9" L. parahybana and several Pamphobeteus species, and they have been very aggressive when I try to open their cages.  They will charge me and try to attack.  If it wasn't for the me using tongs, I would have been attacked numerous times.  Perhaps the reason there are no bite attacks listed for the Lasiodora is because not many people are going to handle them because they know they're aggressive.  Also, just because there are no bite reports listed, doesn't mean nobody hasn't gotten tagged.  Not everyone posts when something happens.

Reactions: Disagree 1


----------



## Veneficus (Jun 20, 2008)

Eraisuithon said:


> As Ryan said in another topic, the G. rosea bite thread is the longest, but that doesn't make the G. rosea the most aggressive tarantula. I would advise not to handle Lasiodoras, but some people had success with them, including parahybana. It really depends on the individual spider.
> 
> 
> I don't know where did you hear that A. seemanni is a docile one, but I think it is not. It's not overly aggressive, but I wouldn't call it "docile" (in T terms) at all.


The G. rosea has the longest bite thread is because people believe they are not an aggressive species and so more people will hold them--hence the higher bite percent from them.   Personally, I believe with any tarantula you're taking a risk of getting tagged.

Yeah, my A. seemanni latched onto my tongs and the shipping container the other day when I was trying to package him for shipment, and I couldn't pry him off, lol.


----------



## Lennie Collins (Jun 20, 2008)

Veneficus please explain attack. If they were aggressive they would be trying to get out their cages to get to you. You stated that when you put tongs in they go after the tongs. They are defending their enclosure. If they were aggressive they would bypass the tongs and continue to go after you. I never ever stated or hinted that a Lasiordora Parahybana would not bite. I stated they have the ability to bite.


----------



## crpy (Jun 20, 2008)

Also I think it MAY (operative word) make a difference between male and female to be quite obvious perhaps.

I had a male that was absolutely psycho, He would fly at and bite a dowel  or anything in his zone of influence. My cat got in the "T" room and i watched him put his nose on the screen top and the "T" sprang up and put his fangs through the screen it was the fastest attack i had ever seen and the cat literally jumped 6 feet in the air i lmao


----------



## Veneficus (Jun 20, 2008)

Lennie Collins said:


> Veneficus please explain attack. If they were aggressive they would be trying to get out their cages to get to you. You stated that when you put tongs in they go after the tongs. They are defending their enclosure. If they were aggressive they would bypass the thongs and continue to go after you. I never ever stated or hinted that a Lasiordora Parahybana would not bite. I stated they have the ability to bite.


Actually, yes--they see the tongs because it's in their enclosure and they attack--when tongs are withdrawn, they continue to go towards the area that is open (hence trying to get out of their container and pursue).  If I pick up their container, they will try and attack my fingers/hands that is holding the container (obviously they can't since there is glass in between).  Believe me, I do not doubt that if they were not in containers then they would pursue me.  I have seen this mostly with WC species, but my L. parahybana is CB and she does it too.


----------



## radicaldementia (Jun 20, 2008)

It only takes a little common sense to understand how handling can stress a T.  T's are not intelligent, they do not have a brain like we do.  They may or may not have some sort of consciousness, but even if so, it is extremely limited and a T's world view is vastly inferior to ours or even other mammals.  When your primary sense is ground vibrations, your view of the world around you can only be so complex.

When we say T's get "stress", we're not necessarily talking about the same kind of emotional stress that we feel.  It is more of a physiological reaction that comes from the constant stimulation T's receive when handled.  T's have clearly evolved to be ambush predators, they don't move around much on their own.  When you handle a T, you are forcing it to go against its instincts and walk around.  In short term this is mostly harmless, as T's obviously do need to walk around from time to time.  But frequent handling over a long period of time will certainly have an effect of the T's health.  It may not kill it, but it would certainly be fair to say that your T would be "unhappy".

Just imagine if you're sitting at your computer, and suddenly this giant blob thing comes into your room, messes everything up, and starts pushing you around.  Would you be happy and friendly?


----------



## wsimms (Jun 20, 2008)

I have to add my voice to those who question the concept of handling a T causing "stress'.  To my knowledge, there is not a single study supporting a shortened lifespan of captive tarantulas as a result of handling, although it would be an easy study to perform.  Personally, I agree with the Schultz's that handling T's brings about a general diminution of their fight/flight responses and makes them easier to work with.

Ethologists have demonstrated that many animals are much more intelligent than previous dogma has suggested.  Along those lines, maybe we should re-examine our unproven beliefs about the "intelligence" of T's.


----------



## crpy (Jun 20, 2008)

wsimms said:


> I have to add my voice to those who question the concept of handling a T causing "stress'.  To my knowledge, there is not a single study supporting a shortened lifespan of captive tarantulas as a result of handling, although it would be an easy study to perform.  Personally, I agree with the Schultz's that handling T's brings about a general diminution of their fight/flight responses and makes them easier to work with.
> 
> Ethologists have demonstrated that many animals are much more intelligent than previous dogma has suggested.  Along those lines, maybe we should re-examine our unproven beliefs about the "intelligence" of T's.


OK how about this, Lasi feels a big vibration, runs out of hole to take on the source, the source is a big pimply face kid who promply squishes said "T".

Verses big pimply faced kid sees big hairy spider and runs away to safety.


----------



## wsimms (Jun 20, 2008)

crpy said:


> OK how about this, Lasi feels a big vibration, runs out of hole to take on the source, the source is a big pimply face kid who promply squishes said "T".
> 
> Verses big pimply faced kid sees big hairy spider and runs away to safety.


Uuuhhhhhhhhhh.....yeah.

In the above scenarios, it appears that Lasi possesses the greater IQ of the two animals.  In the first scenario, Lasi exhibits curiosity, a sign of higher intelligence, while big pimply faced kid ("BPFK") exhibits unprovoked aggression, a feature more often seen in lower species.

In scenario #2, Lasi is clearly more intelligent than BPFK in that BPFK's flight response is completely unnecessary.  Unnecessary flights from safe situations increase the odds of the individual finding itself in unsafe situations, and thus are a detriment to survival.


----------



## crpy (Jun 20, 2008)

wsimms said:


> Uuuhhhhhhhhhh.....yeah.
> 
> In the above scenarios, it appears that Lasi possesses the greater IQ of the two animals.  In the first scenario, Lasi exhibits curiosity, a sign of higher intelligence, while big pimply faced kid ("BPFK") exhibits unprovoked aggression, a feature more often seen in lower species.
> 
> In scenario #2, Lasi is clearly more intelligent than BPFK in that BPFK's flight response is completely unnecessary.  Unnecessary flights from safe situations increase the odds of the individual finding itself in unsafe situations, and thus are a detriment to survival.


LOL, yeah, im tired ,after I sent it I was thinking Oh that was lame:wall:


----------



## the nature boy (Jun 20, 2008)

*E-a-s-y*

I find these to be an EASY species to handle.  As noted, they can be a bit skiddish, but that's it. In The Tarantula Keeper's Guide Stan states that they almost seem to *enjoy* being held.  The lack of bite reports on this species speaks volumes.

--the nature boy


----------



## robc (Jun 20, 2008)

I hold my L.Parahybana all the time and she is close to 10"


----------



## crpy (Jun 20, 2008)

crpy said:


> LOL, yeah, im tired ,after I sent it I was thinking Oh that was lame:wall:


But sense you made that analogy, the flight response by the BPFK exhibited a degree of intelligence because of the appearance of the approaching Lasi (being a big, fast hairy spider)and because of the unknown threat by said Lasi.


----------



## xhexdx (Jun 20, 2008)

Yay, my turn!

I'm not going to quote because that would take too long, but I'll sum things up...

The comment about tarantulas being defensive not aggressive.  I guess you can say that's true if you attribute an OBT rearing up and striking as soon as you even *touch* their cage.

Most questions people post can be answered with the same response:  It depends on species and on the individual tarantula.  I have seen people hold OBTs before.  I personally would never hold one, although I would bet I could hold at least one of my nine individuals without it biting me.  In *general* though, OBTs are an aggressive species of tarantula.

The comment about urticating hairs being the second defense to running:  What about species without urticating hairs?  I have never seen a tarantula try to run and then kick hairs.  My guys always kick hairs first.

This thread is going way off topic.  In fact, I forget what the original question was...something about L. parahybana not having any bite reports.

My opinion on why there aren't any bite reports is that this particular species is either especially docile or rarely held.  That, or nobody wants to admit being bit by one. 

Hasta.


----------



## ArachnoYak (Jun 20, 2008)

*Never thought I'd do this.*

As I am an atheist about to take the side of a christian, but I will agree with Lennie as far as the spider's ability to think.  Tests and tests can be done and spiders can be dissected but their brain function can never be underestimated.  Until you can actually get inside of the brain of a living tarantula and feel what it feels and see what it sees then you can't say it doesn't have the ability to think.  This is similar to a few threads before where people dogmatically decided that invertebrates couldn't feel pain.  When spiders do their "happy dance" after catching their prey is that purely instinctual?  Do wild spiders, with predators all around, have time for such a celebration?


----------



## baf236 (Jun 20, 2008)

Hey, Im back.  Wow, it seems that there is a diverse array of experience and opinions about handling L. parahybana.  Robc that is a great T youv'e got!  For you and Lennie and others who frequently handle the juvies or adult L parahybanas, how do you get them onto your hands?  With my little slings I just put one hand in front and coax them onto it with my finger from behind.  But with the bigger ones I would think that they might think that your finger is a cricket.  Would it be better to try to coax them onto your hand with the entire palm of your other hand?  That way they would be less apt to mistake a palm (instead of finger) for a cricket.


----------



## xhexdx (Jun 20, 2008)

ArachnoYak said:


> When spiders do their "happy dance" after catching their prey is that purely instinctual?  Do wild spiders, with predators all around, have time for such a celebration?


Yes.

It's instinct.


----------



## robc (Jun 20, 2008)

baf236 said:


> Hey, Im back.  Wow, it seems that there is a diverse array of experience and opinions about handling L. parahybana.  Robc that is a great T youv'e got!  For you and Lennie and others who frequently handle the juvies or adult L parahybanas, how do you get them onto your hands?  With my little slings I just put one hand in front and coax them onto it with my finger from behind.  But with the bigger ones I would think that they might think that your finger is a cricket.  Would it be better to try to coax them onto your hand with the entire palm of your other hand?  That way they would be less apt to mistake a palm (instead of finger) for a cricket.


With my big L.P she see's my hand goes up the glass onto the edge of the enclosure and goes directly into my hand, make sure you sit close to the floor so if she/he is dropped they don't rupture there abnomen.....rob


----------



## wsimms (Jun 20, 2008)

My parahybana is about 7", and I handle her all the time.  So does my 10 year old.  She is no more defensive than any of my Brachys.  As a matter of fact, she doesn't even have a real bald spot, just a couple of small "racing stripes".


----------



## Veneficus (Jun 20, 2008)

ArachnoYak said:


> As I am an atheist about to take the side of a christian, but I will agree with Lennie as far as the spider's ability to think.  Tests and tests can be done and spiders can be dissected but their brain function can never be underestimated.  Until you can actually get inside of the brain of a living tarantula and feel what it feels and see what it sees then you can't say it doesn't have the ability to think.  This is similar to a few threads before where people dogmatically decided that invertebrates couldn't feel pain.  When spiders do their "happy dance" after catching their prey is that purely instinctual?  Do wild spiders, with predators all around, have time for such a celebration?


Tarantulas are predators, so they have to have more intelligence then their prey.  

As to the 'happy dance,' they are not celebrating --As Schultz writes, they are actually laying a feeding web so they can place their prey into it and wrap it up.  The hypothesis is that if another prey comes along, they can secure the first so they can get the second.


----------



## robc (Jun 20, 2008)

wsimms said:


> My parahybana is about 7", and I handle her all the time.  So does my 10 year old.  She is no more defensive than any of my Brachys.  As a matter of fact, she doesn't even have a real bald spot, just a couple of small "racing stripes".


I totaly agree.......rob


----------



## Demon187 (Jun 20, 2008)

[God gave us authority over all animals and we have the higher intelligence].

i have never heard such a preposterous and arrogant comment as that one. we have no authority over animals, and the sooner we realise this the better. if we are so highly intelligent then how come cause more pain and suffering not to mention death and destruction of our planet than anything that lives now or before us, including the hundreds or thousands of animals that are now extinct at our hands. it is the arrogance of the human race that will end the world as we know it. i just hope we dont ruin it for the other creatures that have just as much right to live here as we do, and they live long and happy lives long after we are gone, which im sure they will. 

rant over


----------



## wsimms (Jun 20, 2008)

Demon187 said:


> [God gave us authority over all animals and we have the higher intelligence].
> 
> i have never heard such a preposterous and arrogant comment as that one. we have no authority over animals, and the sooner we realise this the better


Well, it does seem accurate, doesn't it?  The animals always lose.


----------



## Demon187 (Jun 20, 2008)

God gave us authority over all animals and we have the higher intelligence and common sense. I do use them when I handle my tarantulas and scorpions. Take care![/QUOTE said:
			
		

> i have never heard such a preposterous and arrogant comment as that one. we have no authority over animals, and the sooner we realise this the better. if we are so highly intelligent then how come cause more pain and suffering not to mention death and destruction of our planet than anything that lives now or before us, including the hundreds or thousands of animals that are now extinct at our hands. it is the arrogance of the human race that will end the world as we know it. i just hope we dont ruin it for the other creatures that have just as much right to live here as we do, and they live long and happy lives long after we are gone, which im sure they will.
> 
> rant over
> __________________


----------



## Demon187 (Jun 20, 2008)

wsimms said:


> Well, it does seem accurate, doesn't it?  The animals always lose.



lose what? and always? 
so when some surfer gets eaten by a shark or someone gets mauled by a dog or a lion or cooger etc. they lose do they? i dont think you thought that one through. take away your guns and weapons and pit you against any other large predator and we will see who will lose as they finish off your internal organs and lap up the last remains of your spilt blood.


----------



## wsimms (Jun 20, 2008)

Demon187 said:


> lose what? and always?
> so when some surfer gets eaten by a shark or someone gets mauled by a dog or a lion or cooger etc. they lose do they? i dont think you thought that one through. take away your guns and weapons and pit you against any other large predator and we will see who will lose as they finish off your internal organs and lap up the last remains of your spilt blood.


Lose "the war".  Yes, always.
The animals are not going to be able to "take away [my] guns and weapons", nor the tractors, bulldozers, etc. that eat away their habitat year by year.  For every surfer that feeds a shark, there are millions of chickens, cows, pigs, etc. that die to feed humans every day.  Sad but true.  Enough said.

Back to the subject of this thread, I have not been able to find a single bite report anywhere for L. parahybana.  Considering how common they are, that has to mean something.


----------



## Demon187 (Jun 20, 2008)

and we are at war with all all animals yeah?


----------



## Merfolk (Jun 20, 2008)

I am not into handling myself, but I can tell you that an animal handled regulary from an early age will react differently than one that is picked up for the first time at an adult age.

And YES, the risk of a bite remains. Cats and dogs are more intelligent and affectionate, but someday the cuddliest of them might decide to bite you for reasons hard to understand. If your cuddly kitty can bite you, there is no reason  to think that a T will never bite.

What happens is that some dog, sometimes a gentle and behaved one, will see a toddler and it will trigger the hunting instinct. Even people sometimes can't control their instinct. 

For a T, any bigger creature that will try to pick them up is a threat. So it could be accustomed to handling but something will trigger the defense instinct. Being less intelligent than dogs, the T it is just more likely to revert to instinct if fear kicks in. 

Remember : If humans can revert to their destructive instinct in stressful situations,  dogs will at times, and so will  tarantulas. The lower you are on the evolutionary scale , the  lesser control over your instinct you will have.


----------



## xhexdx (Jun 20, 2008)

Veneficus said:


> Tarantulas are predators, so they have to have more intelligence then their prey.


I'm not sure that makes total sense...

Tarantulas eat lizards, snakes, birds...but birds and lizards eat spiders.  Sometimes it's simply the larger animal wins.


----------



## jnfenrir (Jun 20, 2008)

I disagree with the notion that _any_ tarantula species is more "aggressive" towards humans than another. As I believe this thread very clearly indicates, the personality of your T is entirely unique to your T. Furthermore, I do believe that a T CAN grow accustomed to frequent handling (you essentially become part of its "environment"), and that bites _usually_ happen due to "user error", or because the T, being a predatory creature of negligible intellect, suddenly forgot that you were "safe". I think many T owners mistakenly use aggression as a synonym for "dangerous to handle".

As for my experience:

My L. parahybana just molted, and she's about 6". I handle her probably once a week, and she never gives me any real trouble. She is *skittish* and *defensive*, yes, but certainly NOT _aggressive_. Like all tarantulas, she doesn't much like me poking around her home, but once I can coax her out and onto my hand, she stays pretty calm. Hell, I've had her fall asleep on me a few times, which is actually pretty nerve-wracking. Would you want to wake a sleeping tarantula? 

I'm going to suggest three "C's" that will give anyone wanting to handle their T's a 99.99% guarantee of never being bitten:

1. *Carefulness* -- Be EXTREMELY gentle, and take your time! RESPECT.
2. *Common sense* -- If it looks pissed, it is. Don't go chasing waterfalls.
3. *Confidence* -- If you don't feel stable, your T won't either. Relax.

I also want to note that I personally believe it's possible to calm an angry tarantula. I've had a lot of instances where I've met a defensive T with very soft, slow, deliberate, even strokes with a brush or tongs, and once they realize that my presence and motions aren't harmful or threatening, they cool their jets a bit. It's not going to work every time, of course, but it is true in many situations that if you show a little love and respect, many times, that's what you'll get back.

Oh, and I don't mean to offend anyone, but the religious debate going on in this thread is absurd and WAY out of line. Just my $0.02.


----------



## Lennie Collins (Jun 20, 2008)

Demon187 I have never heard a more silly statement than the one you posted. Are you stating animals are more intelligent than humans? Man has the ability to learn, reason, and make choices. I hope you can expand more on your comment if you are able. The fact that man cause destruction means man make bad choices not that animals are more intelligent. Read the Bible if you can it states that the animals came to Adam and he named them. Adam did not go to the animals and get named by them.


----------



## H P L H (Jun 20, 2008)

Lennie Collins said:


> *God* gave them a brain /QUOTE]
> 
> 
> lol yeah "god" gave them there brain


----------



## GootySapphire (Jun 20, 2008)

I would not suggest handling anything that has even a slight aggression...you can't necessarily base aggression on one genus either because I have seen aggressive G. Rosea's before and docile Baboons, each individual is different. But if I were you I would steer clear from handling it. I used to have a A. Geniculata (spelling may be wrong) spiderling that was handleable up to about 3.5 inches then all the sudden it started to strike when I would try to herd it into its new environment...I stopped handling it then.


----------



## thought (Jun 20, 2008)

:clap: 

Good convo. My 2 cents...

On the aggressive/defensive subject. Regardless of the term used it's pretty understood what's being described in this particular scenario: responsive in a violent way. For the T to be aggressive it needs a target. Therefore it's clearly responding to some stimuli in a violent way. If it's to be defensive, it again requires that stimuli only now the T has judged it as a threat. So it comes down to each individual Ts completely circumstantial judgment of whatever it's responding to. 

With this in mind, the best we are doing is making generalizations based on genetic similarity. Each individual T and each individual situation goes FAR beyond our generalizations. The best one can do really is to study each individual T. 

Now the matter of handling and the conditioning of the T accordingly. The keystone to this bridge of understanding is the T's ability to form habits in behavior based off exposure to a certain type of stimuli over time. This calls for the T to have some sort of "memory" or way of "storing" information. The T has to be able to experience the stimuli, associate it to past stimuli, and respond in a manner similar to the way it did previously.

We can't really, at this point in time imo, make a conclusion as to the degree of the T's ability in this field. My A. metallica was my first T, 4"+. Bought her from a petstore. Now, there have been 3 times I have slipped up. 3 times she would teleport to my hand/finger, legs raised, grab me, let go, and spin remaining in the same area just facing the opposite direction. First time I was relieved, second time I found it interesting, third time I started to wonder... 3 opportunities to bite me and seemed to have full intent on doing so but on contact would completely call off that "instinct". She will not walk on my skin, she touches it and just stops or walks around. She has no problem putting 3 or 4 legs on it, but won't go on it. Have to wear gloves to pick her up. 

They're pretty incredible creatures. I found them fascinating before but now spending more time with them it just grows.


----------



## Demon187 (Jun 20, 2008)

Lennie Collins said:


> Demon187 I have never heard a more silly statement than the one you posted. Are you stating animals are more intelligent than humans? Man has the ability to learn, reason, and make choices. I hope you can expand more on your comment if you are able. The fact that man cause destruction means man make bad choices not that animals are more intelligent. Read the Bible if you can it states that the animals came to Adam and he named them. Adam did not go to the animals and get named by them.


its gotta be true if it was in the bible! :? my post did not state animals are more inteligent than us


----------



## hairmetalspider (Jun 20, 2008)

Lennie Collins said:


> Demon187 I have never heard a more silly statement than the one you posted. Are you stating animals are more intelligent than humans? Man has the ability to learn, reason, and make choices.


If you are implying that animals do not have the ability to learn, that's absolutely ignorant.

As well as make choices. Reason, debatable, but that entire comment was unfounded and can easily be diminished.


----------



## Lennie Collins (Jun 20, 2008)

Demon187 if you can read I was asking a question. That is why a question mark was at the end. You have your opinion regardless of how foolish I think it is and I have my opinion regardless how foolish you think it is. I don't know if you were being sincere or a fool BUT I agree if it's in the Bible IT's TRUE as far as I am concern!


----------



## GootySapphire (Jun 20, 2008)

Nobody knows....we're all foolish for arguing via the internet....


----------



## dalitan (Jun 20, 2008)

i have a 7'' L. parahybana...it will no longer fit in my palm...but i always have the time to handle them atleast 1's a week...

always remember....never put your finger  in front of them, or within their terretory...ill asure u...they will bite...hehehe...

heres what you will do...let ur T' move by touching its butt and crawl out its enclosure...het your T crawl in your palm...do not attemp to pick...ill assure you...it will be fine...

have the courage...if ure really determined, you can do it... heres take a look at my pic..


----------



## Lennie Collins (Jun 20, 2008)

Hairmetalspider you need to look up the definition of ignorant before you use it towards me! Animals are trained. Can you teach animals math? Computers skills? They cannot retain knowledge like humans. So I believed that ignorant statement is reserved for YOU!


----------



## MoonYin (Jun 20, 2008)

Nice T dalitan.... hehehehehe:clap:


----------



## MoonYin (Jun 20, 2008)

Nice T Rob... brava :clap:


----------



## DreadLobster (Jun 21, 2008)

I was gonna say about the same thing as dalitan. 

Mine's not quite that big, but its basically the same thing. If you put something in front of it, it'll bite. If I throw a cricket in the cage the T will almost catch it out of the air. Its fast as hell. If I startle it its first response is to bite at the tongs or whatever I'm moving near it. Just move slowly and calmly and you'll have a much better chance. 

As for the question of whether or not they calm down as they get older, mine has done the exact opposite. The older/bigger it gets, the faster and hungrier it gets.


----------



## GootySapphire (Jun 21, 2008)

I remember when I had my G. pulchra and it was like 1" and I had it in its vial with the lid off because I was preparing its new setup and I had the crickets ready in hopes it would eat soon after not really thinkin to let it get used to its environment first...I opened the cricket cage to get a pinhead out and it jumped up into the air into the G. Pulchra vial and the T. caught it no joke in mid air....coolest thing I had ever seen hands down.


----------



## hairmetalspider (Jun 21, 2008)

Lennie Collins said:


> Hairmetalspider you need to look up the definition of ignorant before you use it towards me! Animals are trained. Can you teach animals math? Computers skills? They cannot retain knowledge like humans. So I believed that ignorant statement is reserved for YOU!


Right. Alright disciple, training is still a form of learning. And yes, they can retain knowledge. Could they not, there would be no Sea World. (*GASP*)

They also make choices. (Hm. That rapid dog looks like it might bite me, I think I'm going to stay away.)

Oh, andI think you may have accidentally hit your caps lock towards the end there. Just letting you know ;-)


----------



## Lennie Collins (Jun 21, 2008)

*The rabid dog that might bite you...tell him to go seek medical treatment. Let's see if he will follow your advice. In 2002 I talked to the walrus trainer at Sea World and he stated after a few years they have to get new walruses to do thoses tricks because they associate the tricks with food and after a while they don't work for treats. Open your tarantulas' cages in call them and see if they response. Release your tarantulas back in the wild and let's see if they return to show you some affection for caring for them. I now will put the caps back on THIS IS GETTING SILLY! STICK TO THE QUESTION ASK! How's that?*


----------



## hairmetalspider (Jun 21, 2008)

Lennie Collins said:


> *The rabid dog that might bite you...tell him to go seek medical treatment. Let's see if he will follow your advice. In 2002 I talked to the walrus trainer at Sea World and he stated after a few years they have to get new walruses to do thoses tricks because they associate the tricks with food and after a while they don't work for treats. Open your tarantulas' cages in call them and see if they response. Release your tarantulas back in the wild and let's see if they return to show you some affection for caring for them. I now will put the caps back on THIS IS GETTING SILLY! STICK TO THE QUESTION ASK! How's that?*


Half of what you said was not even relevant to the conversation and didn't make any sense.

Maybe your definition of the ability to learn is different. Yes, animals can be taught to things by classical conditioning. So do people. In fact, pretty much a humans entire life is based upon classical conditioning.

And actually Sir, a tarantula will respond if interaction is put forth upon them. I suggest reading through some of these pages before shooting your mouth off. While their chemistry and 'brain' is physically different, they do have response mechanisms. I'd also like to point out you continue to use a tarantula as an example, and while what you're saying may slightly make sense when referencing a bug, there are other animals in our world that do not function the same way and have increased intellectual capacity.

If it even was possible, an animal returning or lackthereof wouldn't have ANYTHING to do with their ability to learn or decision making. So your statement is hereby nonsense. 

I've said my piece and am done having a conversation that would be more intellectual with a brick. Take care, say Hi to the big guy for me.


----------



## Lennie Collins (Jun 21, 2008)

*Hairmentalspider I glad you spoke your so called peace. The same thing you posted about me can be said about you. It's good to see you can get courage behind a computer screen. You started this nonsense by shooting off you mouth. Take care and if you do not have anything thing to say about the thread then you don't have to say a doggone thing to me, for me, or about me! Can you dig on that! *


----------



## presurcukr (Jun 21, 2008)

"Can't we all just get along"?? I must say I never had a T fetch my paper in the morning and i have been around them a long time!!:wall:


----------



## crpy (Jun 21, 2008)

Real nice Lp dalitan, beautiful.

WTH is this arguing crap, lay off Lennie.


----------



## citizen_smithi (Jun 21, 2008)

AREN'T LITTLE PUPPY DOGS SO CUTE AND FUZZY!!!   AAAAWWWW!!!!! PRETTY FLOWERS AND KITTENS AND SUGAR CANDY CANES DANCING IN THE EVENING SUNSET!!!!! EVERYBODY SING WITH ME AND REJOICE!!! LA LA LA LA DOO BE DOO BE DOO!!! YAY!!!!     


Everybody feel better? Good.  

I like spiders.

I bet they think we're proper muppets though


----------



## Londoner (Jun 21, 2008)

My 6" female parahybana is pretty fiesty when her enclosure is invaded by tongs or hands. She charges towards the intruder but doesn't bite (agressive curiosity rather than agressivness). Having said that, as numerous previous posters have stated, once she is removed from her enclosure this behaviour vanishes and she tolerates being handled. I can't comment on frequently handled Ts becoming used to human interaction as I don't handle mine much.


----------



## citizen_smithi (Jun 21, 2008)

Only thing I would wonder is that maybe they calm down once out on the hand because they feel too insecure to be defensive? The other view is that the warmth of the hand is calming, which I can sorta see working too.

I don't mind either way really, while I personally don't handle any of mine unless the opportunity presents itself eg one wandering over the glass will meet my hand if possible and be returned to its home, and I enjoy handling the younger smaller ones when they decide my hand is where they wanna go, but I never actively get them out for handling, but totally understand others desire to do so.

As far as my para goes, she's 3 inches maybe a little bigger and fast as lightning, and ever time I take her lid off she shoots round in my direction, and has thrown her legs up every other time, before turning away and hiding. It's defense, not aggression in my opinion, then when biting is their final option, it is channelled through aggression. 

Simple, provocation = threat = defense = aggression/retreat. All factors being variable depending on the situation.

Also for the record, the most highly strung of my collection are my smithi and seemani.


----------



## Lennie Collins (Jun 21, 2008)

_*Presurcukr...unfortunately I am saddened to say Rodney King took that BUTT WHUPPIN' for nothin' cause we cannot all get along. I stated my dealing with my Brazilian Pink Salmon Tarantula and it came off to a few that I have dealt with every one God created past,  present, and future. I never stated that they don't bite but to a few I came across stating that they can't. CRPY...thank you but you don't have to stick up for me. My co-worker read some of Demon187's and Hairmentalspider's and stated why am I even responding back to that foolishness and you know what...he's right. I am not on here to convert or change anyone's thought process or belief. This is about tarantulas and/or scorpions and I gone leave it at that. Take care!*_


----------



## crpy (Jun 21, 2008)

crpy said:


> Real nice Lp dalitan, beautiful.
> 
> WTH is this arguing crap, lay off Lennie.


 I forgot the comma,Lennie

I meant, Lay off everybody....LENNIE, sorry I was not sticking up for you.


----------



## Lennie Collins (Jun 21, 2008)

Crpy I glad you clarified that. I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt. If you read the posts carefully...I am not arguing with anyone. So lay off me and move on!


----------



## crpy (Jun 21, 2008)

Lennie Collins said:


> I am not arguing with anyone. So lay off me and move on!


riiight, I have


----------



## baf236 (Jun 21, 2008)

Nice T Daliton -- Thanks for the pic!  I will definately keep handling mine but just use common sense.  My L. parahybanas are only 2 1/2 in at this point.  They sure are fast as lightning and are eating like crazy.  I don't know how something so small can eat so much.  I think each one is eating about 10 adult crickets before the next molt.


----------



## Robert Jordan (Jun 22, 2008)

Lennie Collins said:


> And belief along does not get you into Heaven. This faith has to have actions along with it.


I've converted all my T's to Christianity... and killed all the ones who got defensive about it.


----------



## citizen_smithi (Jun 22, 2008)

Robert Jordan said:


> I've converted all my T's to Christianity... and killed all the ones who got defensive about it.


HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!!!!!!


----------



## MVDaniel (Jun 22, 2008)

**sigh...................


----------



## dalitan (Jun 22, 2008)

Robert Jordan said:


> I've converted all my T's to Christianity... and killed all the ones who got defensive about it.



hehehe i think mine were already...  cool!


----------



## dalitan (Jun 22, 2008)

robc said:


> I hold my L.Parahybana all the time and she is close to 10"



wow....what a getle giant you got there....im really excited of my Lp to reach that size...hehehe...really nice...


----------



## Fran (Jun 22, 2008)

jadespider1985 said:


> This is bad advice IME. This is not a cat, or a dog, or anything along those lines. Handling them more will just stress them out more. I see nothing wrong with occasional handling but doing it all the time is not good. The way they react to handling is based mostly on the species, the time in the molt cycle, feeding response, etc. If they feel threatened they will bite. Do not rely on them to run and then kick hair and then bite. They may do none, or all of the above, or just flat out sink there fangs into you. By handling them you are accepting all of these risks. *They do not have the brain capacity to establish any sort of "bonding", this is an arachnid, they are VENOMOUS, ok? *
> Cheers



This says it all. :clap:


----------



## Matt K (Jun 23, 2008)

Miss Manners says its no good to bring politics or RELIGION into a polite conversation....unless you want it to no longer be polite. Lennie.

Robert Jordan is the funniest poster of them all....  :clap: 

On topic:  My LP will sit perfectly still if I open the enclosure.  Any movement after that and it appears programmed to kill.   Even if I could "calm it down" (or otherwise address its tiny ganglia) wit a brush or tongs, and manage to get it picked up, I would not trust that thing for any reason.

Just my 2 centavos.


----------



## izan (Jun 23, 2008)

Heres our Salmon Pink  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7i0IpU-1WEc

iZAN


----------



## Lennie Collins (Jun 23, 2008)

Matt K...I don't know you and you definitely don't know me! I live by a *different creed* than you probably do. That *creed* is don't get into business that's not yours! If you got some *input *about tarantulas and/or scorpions I will be glad to listen. If you wanna post to get a laugh then I am not the one. *So move on*!


----------



## the nature boy (Jun 24, 2008)

**amn!  I'm just real impressed like!*



dalitan said:


> i have a 7'' L. parahybana...it will no longer fit in my palm...but i always have the time to handle them atleast 1's a week...
> 
> always remember....never put your finger  in front of them, or within their terretory...ill asure u...they will bite...hehehe...
> 
> ...


*P-L-E-A-S-E*.  It's not that big a deal.  In the image you're concentrating like you're holding some kind of viper.  I can assure you I've placed my fingers in front of L. parahybanas as well as in their territory with *NO PROBLEM*.  I wouldn't wiggle my finger in front of one or pull some jack *ss stunt like that, but if you have a clue what you're doing you won't get bit.

--the nature boy


----------



## Okitasoshi (Jun 24, 2008)

I think there aren't a lot of L. Parahybana bite reports cause Parahybana let you KNOW when they don't wanna be handled, they're very defensive and adamant about not being touched, therefore, the only real way to get bite is poking it from the front. Which I don't think many people do.




Lennie Collins said:


> Demon187...no I don't!


I'm not too sure why you really talked about god in the first place, especially when it had no relevance. I'd appreciate it if you'd keep the god talk to a minimum if the topic doesn't call for it. if someone asks "did god make L. Parahybana aggressive?!" then feel free to chime in, but it's rude if someone disagrees with you and then you shout god.


----------



## Lennie Collins (Jun 24, 2008)

Okitasoshi I would like it a whole lot if you would not address me. I was not even responding to you so to post a comment like that shows me that you are a <edit - becca81>.


----------



## becca81 (Jun 24, 2008)

If you can't manage to stick to the original topic, then please refrain from posting in this thread.

In case anyone needs a refresher, here's the topic:



> I noticed there are no bite reports for Lasiodora parahybana. I have handled my 1 1/2 inch slings before -- never any bites but they are certainly very fast and skittish. I just wondered has anyone ever tried to handle a juvenile or an adult. Do they calm down a bit as they get older or do they stay about the same? With no bites in the bite reports it make me think they aren't as aggressive as their reputation says.


If you'd like to discuss a God (or the lack thereof,) please feel free to make a new post HERE.

Becca


----------



## DreadLobster (Jun 25, 2008)

It got real quite in here all the sudden....


----------



## presurcukr (Jun 25, 2008)

Lets just say any T will defend it's self if it feels threatened so a bite may come from any one of them.


----------



## Lennie Collins (Jun 25, 2008)

*My lasiodora parahybana is a docile giant! I hold her everyday. She has never given me a defensive threat posture yet! In my opinion people that doesn't even own this species or even handled wrongfully label it aggressive!*


----------



## becca81 (Jun 25, 2008)

presurcukr said:


> Lets just say any T will defend it's self if it feels threatened so a bite may come from any one of them.


Yep.

Some spiders are more prone to bite quickly than others - even within the same species temperaments can differ.  I've seen fairly calm _P. murinus_ and extremely defensive _G. rosea_, but those are mainly exceptions to the rule.




Lennie Collins said:


> In my opinion people that doesn't even own this species or even handled wrongfully label it aggressive!


It's very difficult to make a generalization about an entire species if you only own one of said species.  That's what is wonderful about AB - the collective information provided by many different experiences.

My personal experience with this species (and genus as a whole) is that they are rather skittish.  Very quick to flick hairs and I'd recommend caution to anyone holding this species.  They can move rather fast for such a large spider.


----------



## the nature boy (Jun 25, 2008)

*Pretty much says it all.*



Lennie Collins said:


> *My lasiodora parahybana is a docile giant! I hold her everyday. She has never given me a defensive threat posture yet! In my opinion people that doesn't even own this species or even handled wrongfully label it aggressive!*


Yep. And I've held more than just my own.

--the nature boy


----------

