# cross breeding scorpions



## mobster (Dec 5, 2005)

is it possible for two different species be bred?


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## demolitionlover (Dec 5, 2005)

I have no idea, but it would be pretty cool to have a death stalker mixed with a hairy.


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## N.W.A. (Dec 5, 2005)

That would be cool, but I don't think it's possible.


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## Jmadson13 (Dec 5, 2005)

I'm sure it's a simple matter of hybridizing within the genus or similar species. I don't think it's possible for say an Androctonus sp. to hybridize with a Hadogenes sp. They're simply too different and one would just end up the others lunch. An Androctonus sp. breeding with another Androctonus sp. may be possible, I think that we're forgetting about certain factors here. IE how they communicate, I'm sure Pheromones play a large role, would A. mauritanicus emmit a very different scent than A. bicolor for instance or has crossbreeding gone on within certain geographical limits producing new species? These are all interesting questions that come to mind, I however don't think it is our right or place to thin down the original species by hybridizing. Just think about when scorpions are no longer imported, I think it's much more important to keep the species pure. Pardon my ranting on,
Jamison

Reactions: Like 1


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## asher8282 (Dec 12, 2005)

i agree, but the kewlest thing would be breeding the biggest and hardiest specimens in a species to get bigger and hardier scorps.  how about that?

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## Murziukas (Dec 12, 2005)

I believe "kewlest" is sort of coolest analogue/synonim? I would be quite grateful for regular english as you don't speak my navite language, right? In case you would like to try: na žinoma, kad savaip rašyti yra visada patogiau, bet susidaro tokios aplinkybės kad pasijunti mėnulyje, kur niekas tavęs nesupranta. 
Back to the topic: I tried crossbreed C. Margaritatus "gracilis like" with C. Margaritatus bicolor morph and the only result I got - fighting. Somehow IFF (*i*dentify *f*riend or *f*oe) system is not quite reliable... I was even brave/silly enough to keep them in same tank for about a week (one pair, both in equal size). Luckily there we enought space for both so they shared enclosure, but no such behavior as between same morph was observed...


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## fusion121 (Dec 12, 2005)

Murziukas said:
			
		

> Back to the topic: I tried crossbreed C. Margaritatus "gracilis like" with C. Margaritatus bicolor morph and the only result I got - fighting. Somehow IFF (*i*dentify *f*riend or *f*oe) system is not quite reliable... I was even brave/silly enough to keep them in same tank for about a week (one pair, both in equal size). Luckily there we enought space for both so they shared enclosure, but no such behavior as between same morph was observed...


Interesting observation. Normally I'd expect closely related species (within the same genus:? ) to initiate mating only for it to fail later after the promenade a deux. The fact they didn't even attempt to mate is good evidence for the bicolor morph actually being a distinct species from C. margaritatus, assuming the female wasn't already gravid and the sexes were correct.


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## Murziukas (Dec 13, 2005)

Hi Oliver,

I trully expected something intresting as I have read somewhere that results are diffrent in corssbreeding male 1 with female 2 and male 2 with female 1. I got pretty healthy and active pair of bicolor morph from George and gave them some time for aclimatization as thay had a long trip. All of them were well fed and in good shape. 

My experience is low as mostly my limmited knowledge came from reading but all theory goes through practice. All 4 pairs (one is bicolor) of them breeded between them fluently and fast. Basicly it took from 1 to 5 minutes after introducing to start mating. The only strange thing is that for bicolor morph it took more then 8 hours to finish what they started. May be the problem was in that? male of bicolor was pettite and really small if we compare with female, byt they did mated.


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## G. Carnell (Dec 13, 2005)

unfortunate..

is there any work going on on Centruroides margaritatas at the moment??


i must say that when i put that pair of "bicolor morphs" together, they started fighting straight away (i separated them)

have you tried any other attempts at breeding them?


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## fusion121 (Dec 13, 2005)

The mating for my bicolor pair only took about 1h (if memory serves) the time for a successful mating is mostly dependant on a search for a suitable place for a spermatophore. C. marg bicolor mating seems in general to be quite violent, my female ate my male when I tried it


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## Raan_Jodus (Dec 13, 2005)

Hmm...when you say that, it makes me happy that I have two males.  Wouldnt this make them not quite as communal as other Centruroides if mating is so violent?  My Males tend to live at the opposite end of the tank from each other all the time.  They certainly have a defined territory it seems.


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## Murziukas (Dec 14, 2005)

Hi George,

the only one possible progress now is patience  They matted, it took long (most of the time thay didn't move at all staying in primary position and location), but they did it and I think female is developing new brood. They didn't fight at all (may be relized how lucky they are together after meeting some close relatives ). I keep them well fed and separate so everything seems to be ok. I hope to see some little ones in spring.


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## Nazgul (Dec 14, 2005)

Hi,

I´ve never had any problems putting together or mating any adult Centruroides specimens. I´ve also never observed any aggression. I doubt that it´s easily possible to breed scorpion hybrids. Even C. margaritatus and gracilis which are quite closely related are producing an offspring capable of survival. 

LOURENÇO W.R. (1991): Interspecific hybridation of laboratory reared Centruroides gracilis and Centruroides
margaritatus (Chelicerata, Scorpiones) – Studies on Neotropical Fauna and Environment 26(1): 29-32

I´ve also tried to breed a female H. trilineatus with an undetermined Hottentotta male (belonging to the minax, polystictus, eminii group), they mated but the female never produced any young.

Regards
Alex


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## Murziukas (Dec 14, 2005)

Hi Alex,

Well, something went wrong, but what? Two mixed couples, zero tolerance. After introduction aggression was following and even immediate... :?


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## G. Carnell (Dec 14, 2005)

that pic just reminded me how beautiful the bicolor morph is!!!! ;p
nice pic Tadaz


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## Murziukas (Dec 14, 2005)

Geee... :? You know George, I really don't see any difference under UV


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## Ythier (Dec 14, 2005)

...hé hé


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## fusion121 (Dec 14, 2005)

How'd it go?


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## Ythier (Dec 14, 2005)

The male wanted to have some s*x, but not the female (...as usual  )


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## Nikos (Dec 14, 2005)

Ythier said:
			
		

> The male wanted to have some s*x, but not the female (...as usual  )


let me guess....a headacke ??


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## webracer17g (Dec 14, 2005)

or washing her.......um....hair......there we go!


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## Ythier (Dec 15, 2005)

vardoulas said:
			
		

> let me guess....a headache ??


Yes..well..a cephalothoraxache


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## John Bokma (Dec 18, 2005)

Nazgul said:
			
		

> Hi,
> 
> I´ve never had any problems putting together or mating any adult Centruroides specimens. I´ve also never observed any aggression.


So C. gracilis shouldn't be a problem? (Had already luck with C. flavopictus, the mating that is). I have nice male, and nice female.

I saw today a male and a female under the same rock (C. gracilis). It's not the first time I see 2 adults (m and f) share a rock. Is this common?



			
				Nazgul said:
			
		

> I doubt that it´s easily possible to breed scorpion hybrids. Even C. margaritatus and gracilis which are quite closely related are producing an offspring capable of survival.


You mean: aren't producing any offspring capable of survival?


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## Nazgul (Dec 18, 2005)

Hi,

of course I meant "aren´t", you are right. Sorry for that mistake.

Regards
Alex


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## Androctonus_bic (Dec 20, 2005)

Here in Spain; there is a group of people that make artificial/not real reproduction with tarantulas. They stimulate the males ( previous anestesia use) to cach the sperm. After that make sleep the female tarantula and introduce the sperm in the sexual hole.

I think it is nice to take xperiments like some of you tryes, but is not a good care to own pets. I think also in scorps it will be very difficult to get.

All by the science!!!

Cheers
Carles 

P.D: I'm not agree this methods, but they don't leave to be interesting xperiments. Also for across species.


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## Prymal (Dec 21, 2005)

Heya Andro-

Everytime a person decides to keep a scorpion in captivity, it is an experiment of sorts. Everytime a person decides to attempt a mating of a scorpion species, it is an experiment. BL, we know too little to know much for sure and until we do, we're experimentin'! LOL

Non-harmful experimentation in regards to scorpions is in and of itself an awesome adventure. From these experiments, we sometimes have a better grasp on the finer workings of many scorps than many scorpiologists that just do not have enough casual time to devote to such undertakings. 
To date, there's a great deal of accumulative speculative information but in reality, we actually know very little about this amazing and enigmatic group of animals and if each one of us conducts a bit of experimentation then, we open new doors and insights that help us understand the myriad, often unknown aspects of these animals. 
Think of this: those on the board that pursue captive breeding of many, sometimes uncommon or rare species, have been given insights into the courtship, mating, parturition, post-embryonic development, etc. of many species of which, no such data exists. 
Here in the States, aside from abundant systematic research and a very narrow focus on only a few choice species (P. utahensis, H. arizonensis, C. exilicauda, C. vittatus, U. mordax & V. spinigerus) almost nothing is known in regards to the majority of the U.S. scorpion fauna (i.e. Pseudouroctonus, Serrradigitus, Uroctonites, Vaejovis, Diplocentrus, etc.). So, there's still a nebulous amount of questions that need answers and people to answer them; whether those people are formally trained scorpiologists or avid and ardent enthusiasts (this be we!).

Best Regards,
Luc


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## Exoschel69 (Jan 24, 2012)

Prymal said:


> Heya Andro-
> 
> Everytime a person decides to keep a scorpion in captivity, it is an experiment of sorts. Everytime a person decides to attempt a mating of a scorpion species, it is an experiment. BL, we know too little to know much for sure and until we do, we're experimentin'! LOL
> 
> ...


this is a great explanation! i personally would love to find a way to breed scorplings from two separate breeds of scorpion. i think it would be an adventure to see them grow up and take their own unique style and shape. maybe even breed them again refining characteristics i like the most! a sort of survival of my favorite sort of thingXD


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## Keister (Jan 24, 2012)

This is one of those things that you put under the catagory "don't play God". In other words don't try to cross breed, it can really ruin your reputation as a breeder if people find out you cross breed.


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## Galapoheros (Jan 24, 2012)

Woooo, old thread but, oh well.  I think it's OK if it's for scientific purposes/studies.


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## Hornets inverts (Jan 31, 2012)

I have no huge problem with hybridising as long as the resulting animals are never sold/traded/given away. I'm very curious as to what might come out of hybrid parings but i believe any hybrid offspring should be kept by the breeder untill the day they are killed/die


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## Sigyn (Apr 29, 2012)

Looks like no one succeeded yet ..eh??


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## Keister (Apr 29, 2012)

Sigyn said:


> Looks like no one succeeded yet ..eh??


No, nobody likes cross breeds, so no body breeds cross breeds cross breeds. Extremely old thread anyway.


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## 2nscorpx (Apr 30, 2012)

Bringing back old threads is really becoming irritating...no one can answer them, or have any reason to, but this is often found AFTER a post is made...

Hottentotta jayakari salei is the only hybrid in the hobby that I know has been in the hobby sometime in the last three years, and it is very rare, as is H. salei. It is not commercially bred, and is only in Europe.

Reactions: Like 1


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## cacoseraph (May 4, 2012)

lol, search police meet anti-necromancers... can win, apparently


check out transvillosus... Parabuthus transvallicus with something else.

there are also a fair amount of intergrades in nature.  naturally occurring hybrids between either species or subspecies, i can't remember right now


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## Abhorsen (Jan 23, 2018)

I tried it once, got my male p villosus orange and female p transvaalicus, tehy are living in the same enclosure, they've been living together for a couple of months.  i don't know if the female is gravid but her tummy is big, the thing is I couldn't find the spermatophore. (I rehouse them twice)


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## LeFanDesBugs (Jan 23, 2018)

There's some speculation at the moment as to whether villosus and transvaalicus are the same species. It is very possible.
In that case it wouldn't be cross breeding per-say. 
Very cool experiment nonetheless!


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## Collin Clary (Jan 24, 2018)

Folks, this thread is from 2005, and the previous responses are from 2012. You're a little late to the discussion. 



Abhorsen said:


> I tried it once, got my male p villosus orange and female p transvaalicus, tehy are living in the same enclosure, they've been living together for a couple of months.  i don't know if the female is gravid but her tummy is big, the thing is I couldn't find the spermatophore. (I rehouse them twice)


But why? _P. villosus _in particular aren't that common. Why not try to breed them with their own species?

On the off chance they do hybridize, please do not sell the offspring.



LeFanDesBugs said:


> There's some speculation at the moment as to whether villosus and transvaalicus are the same species. It is very possible.
> In that case it wouldn't be cross breeding per-say.
> Very cool experiment nonetheless!


They are closely related, but I have never read anything that suggested that _P. villosus_ and _P. transvaalicus _are the same species.


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## LeFanDesBugs (Jan 25, 2018)

Collin Clary said:


> They are closely related, but I have never read anything that suggested that _P. villosus_ and _P. transvaalicus _are the same species.


It' been discovered by a buddy of mine that villosus can "spit" venom as far as 4 feet. A feature only found in transvaalicus amongst parabuthus species.
DNA testing will soon be done


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## Collin Clary (Jan 25, 2018)

LeFanDesBugs said:


> It' been discovered by a buddy of mine that villosus can "spit" venom as far as 4 feet. A feature only found in transvaalicus amongst parabuthus species.
> DNA testing will soon be done


That's not particularly surprising, nor is that trait alone enough to distinguish between species. Indeed I've been able to get _Hadrurus _species to spray venom in controlled settings (albeit, only a few inches). _P. villosus_ have a number of differing morphological characteristics, and additionally I'm fairly certain that genetic testing has already been done (see work by Lorenzo Prendini).


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## Abhorsen (Jan 28, 2018)

LeFanDesBugs said:


> There's some speculation at the moment as to whether villosus and transvaalicus are the same species. It is very possible.
> In that case it wouldn't be cross breeding per-say.
> Very cool experiment nonetheless!


Hopefully it will be succesful, once it is, I'll share it with all of you the progress


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## Abhorsen (Jan 28, 2018)

Collin Clary said:


> Folks, this thread is from 2005, and the previous responses are from 2012. You're a little late to the discussion.
> 
> 
> But why? _P. villosus _in particular aren't that common. Why not try to breed them with their own species?
> ...


It was just an experiment and I used male P villosus so i think it should be fine, if it's succesful, I wont be selling any. The reason why i did it is because I'm fond of hybrids


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