# I killed a pede today...



## Mister Internet (Jan 25, 2006)

It was a _Scutigera sp._ house centipede, and I saw it and stepped on it.  It was in my house without my permission, therefore it had to die.  I already have three in containers, and I don't need anymore.  They can't survive outside in the winter, so releasing it outside was a stupid idea... plus, he had shown blatant disregard for asking my permission before entering my home before, and I had no reason to think he'd learned any manners in the meantime.  I was a little disappointed with myself for automatically stepping on the centipede without even thinking about it, but once I analyzed the situation and realized that my brain subconsciously did all of the above thought processes in less than a split second, I was actually quite proud of myself.  My brain made the correct decision and told my body what to do before I even knew what was going on.

Today will be a good day.


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## Cirith Ungol (Jan 25, 2006)

And you're sure non of the three captives is missing from their tanks?


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## Mister Internet (Jan 25, 2006)

Cirith Ungol said:
			
		

> And you're sure non of the three captives is missing from their tanks?


Positive.  We have these pests ALL THE TIME... usually, I at least make a symbolic attempt to throw them outside, even though they can't really survive there...


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## Cirith Ungol (Jan 25, 2006)

Mister Internet said:
			
		

> Positive.  We have these pests ALL THE TIME... usually, I at least make a symbolic attempt to throw them outside, even though they can't really survive there...


I wish I had those running about in my flat. Think of poor me next time you find one... lucky Mr. I. It's years since I have seen even a garden variety tiny swedish centi running about in the wild. Next one I see though will have to go for a little trip with me and then I'll feed it mice laced with steroids until it reaches the size of my leg.


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## Galapoheros (Jan 25, 2006)

No stubborn pondering today for you, right?  Ha, I know what you mean.  Some days it's just turned on and other days, you can't turn it on.  I can't figure out what the difference is.  Some days it just flows.  Other days, I should just go to bed and not move.  Anyway, I keep hearing that these can't make it through the winter outside.  I have found Scutigera sp. under logs in deep forests with no houses around.  But, sometimes we don't get hard freezes here in tx where I live.  Sometimes it won't freeze in a year.  Not common for it not to freeze but every once in a while it won't.  I've caught two different kinds under logs around here (Between Bryan Tx and Austin).  I have a pic on one, purple stripes, and the other was larger and rusty red.


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## Mister Internet (Jan 25, 2006)

Yeah, I can imagine they would in TX... definitely not around here though, too dry and too cold.  You can find them occasionally in the summer under logs, but that's about it.


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## MarknMiami (Jan 25, 2006)

Congratulations...I'm happy for You :clap:


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## CedrikG (Jan 25, 2006)

Yeah having centipede in the wild where you are from is good and not ... good for the Myriapods fans, bad when they enter in your house, especially with kids and animals around!


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## Thoth (Jan 25, 2006)

I usually the errant Scutigera sp. live, just because they help take care of the even less desirable home invaders. (See how quickly the two legged kind runs screaming from the house when lied to and told Scutigera is highly toxic )


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## Parahybana3590 (Jan 25, 2006)

Thoth said:
			
		

> I usually the errant Scutigera sp. live, just because they help take care of the even less desirable home invaders. (See how quickly the two legged kind runs screaming from the house when lied to and told Scutigera is highly toxic )


Huh......:clap:


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## 324r350 (Jan 25, 2006)

Cirith Ungol said:
			
		

> I wish I had those running about in my flat. Think of poor me next time you find one... lucky Mr. I. It's years since I have seen even a garden variety tiny swedish centi running about in the wild. Next one I see though will have to go for a little trip with me and then I'll feed it mice laced with steroids until it reaches the size of my leg.


Stepping on these tend to spill tens of wriggling (im serious) legs all over the floor
i use the toilet

you know i do sell the scutigera, $1/piece
ive still yet to get someone to take me up on my offer


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## parabuthus (Jan 30, 2006)

LOL...


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## LukeC (Feb 8, 2006)

Cirith Ungol said:
			
		

> I wish I had those running about in my flat. Think of poor me next time you find one... lucky Mr. I. It's years since I have seen even a garden variety tiny swedish centi running about in the wild. Next one I see though will have to go for a little trip with me and then I'll feed it mice laced with steroids until it reaches the size of my leg.


LMAO


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## ArachnoYak (Oct 20, 2007)

*Take a bow.*

I thought this message board was for people that actually liked arachnids and their relatives, not for ignorant bugstompers.  What do you want?  A brownie badge?  Grow up!  Save your posts for information sharing as that is the purpose of this forum.  The sad thing about it is you are one of the administrators and are supposed to be setting an example for the rest of us.


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## RoachGirlRen (Oct 20, 2007)

I usually plop 'pedes in my basement when I find them in the house. They're too useful in getting rid of more serious pests for me to kill. Same goes for spiders - my home would be INFESTED with fruit flies were it not for our ample supply of spiders. Removing helpful predators, especially ones that don't really pose a risk to people, from the home seems counter-intuitive.


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## PhilK (Oct 20, 2007)

They can't survive in the wild.. what did they do before people colonised properly? Or are they introduced...?

How is it a pest, if it eats all the roaches and stuff in your house?


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## cacoseraph (Oct 20, 2007)

PhilK said:


> They can't survive in the wild.. what did they do before people colonised properly? Or are they introduced...?
> 
> How is it a pest, if it eats all the roaches and stuff in your house?


S. coleoptera is introduced from like Africa or something. so they need houses for wintering in cold places


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## Stylopidae (Oct 20, 2007)

ArachnoYak said:


> I thought this message board was for people that actually liked arachnids and their relatives, not for ignorant bugstompers.  What do you want?  A brownie badge?  Grow up!  Save your posts for information sharing as that is the purpose of this forum.  The sad thing about it is you are one of the administrators and are supposed to be setting an example for the rest of us.



It was in his house...therefore it had to die.

You know...it's funny. He's probably saved more pedes with his step by step how to about how to build escape proof enclosures than any of us will ever own at one time.

Either way...there are many people on here who own roaches and you don't see them protesting the extermination industry. It's essentially the same thing.

Time for life to become a lot less serious

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Ted (Oct 21, 2007)

Cheshire said:


> It was in his house...therefore it had to die.


that's one of the most ignorant things i've heard.

about as intelligent as ''the only good snake's a dead snake.''
or ''i had to shoot that snake, it was going to bite me''


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## Stylopidae (Oct 21, 2007)

Mister Internet said:


> It was a _Scutigera sp._ house centipede, and I saw it and stepped on it.  *It was in my house without my permission, therefore it had to die. * I already have three in containers, and I don't need anymore.  They can't survive outside in the winter, so releasing it outside was a stupid idea... plus, he had shown blatant disregard for asking my permission before entering my home before, and I had no reason to think he'd learned any manners in the meantime.  I was a little disappointed with myself for automatically stepping on the centipede without even thinking about it, but once I analyzed the situation and realized that my brain subconsciously did all of the above thought processes in less than a split second, I was actually quite proud of myself.  My brain made the correct decision and told my body what to do before I even knew what was going on.
> 
> Today will be a good day.


The least you could do is at least read the first post in the thread and get the joke I was refrencing.

It's right there, dude...one click and less than 10 seconds worth of reading is all it takes.


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## Ted (Oct 21, 2007)

what joke?
i still don't see one.


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## Stylopidae (Oct 21, 2007)

Ted said:


> what joke?
> i still don't see one.


If you can't get me refrencing a simple post, then I'm not going to bother explaining it. Either you get the fact I was referencing the joke made in the first post by Mr. I and telling the poster who dug up a year old thread just to bitch at an admin to lighten up or you don't understand a single word I've written in my posts.

Welcome to my ignore list, troll.


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## DavidRS (Oct 21, 2007)

ArachnoYak said:


> The sad thing about it is you are one of the administrators and are supposed to be setting an example for the rest of us.


That's usually the case, with a couple exceptions.


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## Ted (Oct 21, 2007)

Cheshire said:


> If you can't get me refrencing a simple post, then I'm not going to bother explaining it. Either you get the fact I was referencing the joke made in the first post by Mr. I and telling the poster who dug up a year old thread just to bitch at an admin to lighten up or you don't understand a single word I've written in my posts.
> 
> Welcome to my ignore list, troll.


the latter was the case, here,Captain Pwn3d.
i simply didn't get the joke.

let me quote you from your post above.


Cheshire said:


> Time for life to become a lot less serious


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## Mister Internet (Oct 21, 2007)

ArachnoYak said:


> I thought this message board was for people that actually liked arachnids and their relatives, not for ignorant bugstompers.  What do you want?  A brownie badge?  Grow up!  Save your posts for information sharing as that is the purpose of this forum.  The sad thing about it is you are one of the administrators and are supposed to be setting an example for the rest of us.


Hi.  Welcome to last year. Who are you again?  I may have been introduced in the past, but what with the 5 years and hundreds of hours of volunteer service I've spent here, I'm sure you can sympathize that the colors of various feeble newbs have all sort of run together in my brain by now.

Here's your cookie for being such a better person than me.  Yay!



PhilK said:


> They can't survive in the wild.. what did they do before people colonised properly? Or are they introduced...?
> 
> How is it a pest, if it eats all the roaches and stuff in your house?


Yeah, they're a pest species that was never native to this area until brought over from Africa on ships.  I consider them pests because I consider all non-native species pests by definition, and because it annoys me when organisms use my house without my permission.  I don't have roaches in my house except for the 5000 in the giant Rubbermaid in my basement... there's not much for them to eat anyway, I haveOrkin come and treat all rooms but the bug room every 8 weeks.


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## PhilK (Oct 22, 2007)

You sound like a bug lover who hates bugs  !!
You consider _all_ non-natives pests? Even dogs and cats and whatnot? Or are we just talking bugs here?


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## Stylopidae (Oct 22, 2007)

PhilK said:


> You sound like a bug lover who hates bugs  !!
> You consider _all_ non-natives pests? Even dogs and cats and whatnot? Or are we just talking bugs here?


They _are_ an introduced species and thus should be afforded no protection.

I personally would like to see cats become legal to shoot outside of city limits...but that's just me. Ferral cats are one of the biggest environmental disaster this world has ever seen, able to wipe out entire species without so much as a blink of an eye from environmental groups because of their 'soft and cuddly' status..


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## cacoseraph (Oct 23, 2007)

Cheshire said:


> They _are_ an introduced species and thus should be afforded no protection.
> 
> I personally would like to see cats become legal to shoot outside of city limits...but that's just me. Ferral cats are one of the biggest environmental disaster this world has ever seen, able to wipe out entire species without so much as a blink of an eye from environmental groups because of their 'soft and cuddly' status..


DOWN WITH OUTDOOR CATS!!!

i have a cat whom i love, and with whom i am well pleased... and he does not set claw one out of my house (he wouldn't want to anyways)... for exactly as chesh said

further... cats are one of the few predators that kill without eating their "prey". i personally don't think cats are sophisticated enough to call true sadists... but then again...



i am actually steeling myself to kill all the brown widows i find.  they are just too damn successful. they will push native sp. and fill all sorts of niches that were the sole province of some groovy native in the blink of an eye. comb-foots are cheaters!


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## Stylopidae (Oct 23, 2007)

cacoseraph said:


> DOWN WITH OUTDOOR CATS!!!
> 
> i have a cat whom i love, and with whom i am well pleased... and he does not set claw one out of my house (he wouldn't want to anyways)... for exactly as chesh said
> 
> ...


Are they steadotea or _L. geometricus_?

If it's the latter, I know a place where a few can stay.


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## cacoseraph (Oct 24, 2007)

Cheshire said:


> Are they steadotea or _L. geometricus_?
> 
> If it's the latter, I know a place where a few can stay.


geos

i find lots of what i assume are steatoda, too... but i am not familiar enough to winnow out invaders


i will try to grab up some geos now, instead of killing them all


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## Thoth (Oct 24, 2007)

Cheshire said:


> They _are_ an introduced species and thus should be afforded no protection.
> 
> I personally would like to see cats become legal to shoot outside of city limits...but that's just me. Ferral cats are one of the biggest environmental disaster this world has ever seen, able to wipe out entire species without so much as a blink of an eye from environmental groups because of their 'soft and cuddly' status..





cacoseraph said:


> DOWN WITH OUTDOOR CATS!!!
> 
> i have a cat whom i love, and with whom i am well pleased... and he does not set claw one out of my house (he wouldn't want to anyways)... for exactly as chesh said
> 
> further... cats are one of the few predators that kill without eating their "prey". i personally don't think cats are sophisticated enough to call true sadists... but then again...


 "if ye loveth jesus ye must kill a kitten" - Stephen Lynch


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## Choobaine (Oct 25, 2007)

If something bothers me.
It dies.
Simply and pure.
If a cricket bites me it either gets fed to Sephiq or I set it on fire and eat it myself.
It's the rule here.
It isn't cruelty. It's life. The world is cruel. So I embrace it.
I try not to waste a kill. If it dies by my hands it probably tresspassed, ate my food, bit me or whatever, and if it does this it becomes food or entertainement.


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## PhilK (Oct 25, 2007)

That sounds sane..


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## Brettus (Oct 28, 2007)

> If something bothers me.
> It dies.
> Simply and pure.
> If a cricket bites me it either gets fed to Sephiq or I set it on fire and eat it myself.
> ...


I though this forum was for an informed discussion of keeping invert's.  I suggest if you want to discuss your particularly disturbing world views take it to some emo forum instead of here.


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## kingfarvito (Oct 29, 2007)

if you guys keep catching these....Id love one Pm me let me know


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## Pink-Poodle88 (Oct 29, 2007)

That's actually rather disappointing to hear on a forum such as this, where I had initially thought the members were all informed, tolerant, open-minded, etc. and essentially had a love and respect not just for members of the phylum arthropoda, but for all animal life in general, but it appears that I was sadly mistaken. Any self respecting naturalist should have a moral obligation not to cause any creature any kind of harm that is unnecessary, this is common knowledge.

Quite ironic when I hear people complaining about arthropods and the like in "their" homes as a futile attempt to justify their dishonorable, distasteful actions... not only because it sounds like typical ignorant redneck logic, but also because we're talking about hundreds of millions of years of evolution here, and the first animals to leave the primordial seas and walk the earth. If anything, we're invading "their" homes. Every animal plays an important part in the ecosystem, every animal except for humans, that is. 

No, instead we do nothing but use, consume, and destroy, not contributing a single thing, aside from the efforts of some select few individuals who try valiantly to protect the environment, but as a whole, we are nothing but a plague. By definition, we are the ultimate "parasites" to planet earth. If anything, we should be the ones that are exterminated. None of us have the right to do such things that are so unnecessary, especially the taking of another's life for no reason. Darwin himself always stressed that one should never think of any species as being "inferior" or "superior" to one another. We simply all evolved and adapted in different ways, and somewhere far back in the mists of time, we probably all share a common ancestor. The human race and its utter stupidity just disgusts me for the most part.

It's also even more ironic when I hear some that attempt to justify such actions by speaking of death being the "natural" way. Ehh, excuse me, but in case you weren't aware of the obvious, we're living in 1st class countries, exploiting the planet in countless "unnatural" ways, driving cars, and on _computers_ for Christ's sake. If you really wish to speak of the "natural" way, then strip naked and go live completely unarmed in forests that are hundreds of miles from civilization. 99% of you wouldn't last 3 days in such conditions. Then, and only then can one speak of the "natural" way without looking completely retarded and being a complete and utter hypocrite.

It should also be noted that incidentally, according to studies done in the U.K. there is a strong correlation between those that condone animal cruelty and those with lower IQ scores. The studies also imply that vegetarians and the like have higher IQ scores on average as well, not that I'm trying to offend any meat eaters by stating any of this, I just thought it was interesting to point out and slightly relevant.

But sadly, often there is no use talking common sense into people. The majority of them simply refuse to educate and enlighten themselves, but then again, that's another one of many reasons that I dislike the human population. I'm not going to start any arguments however, for that is unnecessary, but I just thought I should state the facts.


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## Choobaine (Oct 29, 2007)

Calm down folks, it's just a forum. What they do will not affect your life. If it hurts don't read it. There's no point subjecting yourself to undue pain you can't deal with. Just let it go. 

If crickets get loose my parents utterly slaughter them. It bothers me when I pay for them, that's good money and food going to waste. Funny enough I have too many now, if I still have an excess at the end of the week it's stir fry time!


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## Drachenjager (Oct 29, 2007)

PhilK said:


> You sound like a bug lover who hates bugs  !!
> You consider _all_ non-natives pests? Even dogs and cats and whatnot? Or are we just talking bugs here?


i do...if they arent pets. What i mean is , feral dogs and cats shoudl be exterminated. as well as feral pigs and any non native critter that is lifing in the wild. Domestic cats are a terrible thing, who ever came up wiht that idea should be tormented for all eternity. 
But i find that many people are pests even more lol 
but then again thats a totally differant discussion lol


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## Drachenjager (Oct 29, 2007)

Cheshire said:


> They _are_ an introduced species and thus should be afforded no protection.
> 
> I personally would like to see cats become legal to shoot outside of city limits...but that's just me. Ferral cats are one of the biggest environmental disaster this world has ever seen, able to wipe out entire species without so much as a blink of an eye from environmental groups because of their 'soft and cuddly' status..


be carefull that you specify housecats. or domestic cats or feral cats. the native cats are an important part of the eco system . domestic cats are an evil evil thing


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## PhilK (Oct 29, 2007)

Poodle: valiant effort, but you aren't about to change anyone's way of thinking with your preaching. For someone who hates how much people have raped the earth.. I bet you drive a car, buy your veggies, and use a computer. All of these things put buttloads of pollutants into the planet. Who's the hypocrite now?

Pointing out the vegos have higher IQs is in no way relevant at all, seeing as being a vego is about as 'unnatural' a human can get. I'm so sick of vegos acting high and mighty too! You may not eat meat, but the fact you eat only veggies ups the amount of land that has to be cleared for you to be provided with food. This land was the site of delicate balances in the wild and homes to many animals. Fertiliser and chemicals are then used on your crops that run off into rivers, pollute the environemtn, and kill countless numbers of your beloved arthropods. Then come harvest time, any animals that have etched ut a living in the crop fields are uprooted, often killed by harvestrs, and left to rot.. At least we eat the animals we kill!


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## cacoseraph (Oct 29, 2007)

lol@some of the posts here.

some seriously misguided poo going on.  i love the idiocy of touting higher IQ and being some sort of environmentalist and posting against killing invasive species.  go live in Australia for a while. stupid.  almost worthy of standard american popular religious rhetoric. all a prioris and no need to justify/cite. love it.


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## Stylopidae (Oct 29, 2007)

Drachenjager said:


> be carefull that you specify housecats. or domestic cats or feral cats. the native cats are an important part of the eco system . domestic cats are an evil evil thing



Yeah..._feral_ cats. I didn't specify it clearly enough in my post.

As for the people getting on Mr. I on the pede thing...get over yourselves. It's not like you've never stepped on a cockroach before.


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## Pink-Poodle88 (Oct 29, 2007)

I never said that I didn't drive a car/get on a computer/etc. I'm perfectly aware of the fact that I do, but then again, re-read what I've said. I myself never said anything about defending "the natural way" or whatever, I personally don't care much for "the natural way" as I made obvious with my first post in here. I simply stated that those who live in the same style and/or those living in 1st class countries _have no room to talk about "the natural way"_ because the way we're living is anything _but_ natural.

Wanting to save every animal isn't completely natural either, but as the self-proclaimed "higher species" position that humans like to think of themselves as, even though we aren't, I believe that we should have a moral obligation to cause as little pain and suffering on the earth as possible, even though this one statement is basically just my opinion, but anyone who is actually knowledgeable and actually aware of just how much damage we cause and doesn't feel the same is probably just heartless and/or just selfish if you ask me. 

A lot of the fundamentals of Bhuddism state the same things, and the most devoted monks will not kill anyone or anything because of their beliefs, an example we should all admire. Bhuddism is one of the few religions I respect personally, though I'm not religious, but I feel as if it's probably one of the few only religions that isn't a hypocritical load of crap, though once again, this is my opinion. We've already done more than enough bad to nature as it is. More than 100 acres of forestry and 2 species are wiped out completely _every single day_ because of us and our selfish needs.

Vegetarianism is actually a much, much better diet both for us(because it's healthier) and for the planet and environment as well, for those that felt the need to insult it, and as I state once again for those of you with poor reading comprehension skills, _not that I'm trying to offend any meat eaters or anything._ Do you people realize that one pound of meat takes 2,500 to 3,000 gallons of water, yet a pound of wheat only takes about 25 gallons of water? Did you know that meat uses over 20 times the amount of land to grow the same amount of protein as soybeans? Do you all realize that raising animals for livestock is actually one of the leading man made causes of methane gas/carbon dioxide pollutants in the atmosphere, possibly contributing to global warming? The land that's taken up for growing vegetables/soy products/etc. is literally WAY less than the amount of land taken up for growing animals for meat and the like. Obviously, we live in a world of limited resources for those of you that didn't know, so my views are far more than just for moral reasons.

Furthermore, for those of you that felt compelled to label me as "high and mighty" as I predicted before I even started typing my first post in here, once again, learn to read. I stated specifically that I wasn't trying to offend any meat eaters and that I wasn't trying to act better than anyone else, I simply said I thought it was interesting to point out given the circumstances. Even more ridiculous, those that felt the need to call me "misguided"... ehh, do your research first people. Go ahead and look it up, you'd be very surprised. Pretty much everything I stated was a solid fact, aside from stuff that I openly said was just my informed opinion. I try as hard as I can to only go by facts and to be as scientific as possible to avoid being wrong. Arguing against scientific facts is just futile. The way I see it, if you can't back up what you say with facts, then you really might as well not say anything at all.

And no, I don't kill any animal, ever, and I do mean that literally. I even said specifically that I didn't want to start any arguments, I hate arguments and conflict and I'm sorry to those that I've offended, but I just can't stand when people take life for granted, take nature for granted, and so on. You really should all research just how much we're hurting this planet before slapping the "miSguidEd enVironmEntaList" type crap label that you acquired while watching South Park on someone.


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## cacoseraph (Oct 29, 2007)

i wish i could post only "lol" but 10char minlim


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## Choobaine (Oct 29, 2007)

cacoseraph said:


> i wish i could post only "lol" but 10char minlim


why not repeat lol over and over again? It helps emphasise both a futile and hillarious situation. People are people and emotion drives us all. No one can change anyone elses lives. So enjoy the ride. And really enjoy arguments.


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## Mister Internet (Oct 30, 2007)

Pink-Poodle88 said:


> And no, I don't kill any animal, ever, and I do mean that literally. I even said specifically that I didn't want to start any arguments, I hate arguments and conflict and I'm sorry to those that I've offended, but I just can't stand when people take life for granted, take nature for granted, and so on. You really should all research just how much we're hurting this planet before slapping the "miSguidEd enVironmEntaList" type crap label that you acquired while watching South Park on someone.


Look, I appreciate your posts... I've had a long day, and I needed a belly laugh.  For your entirely misguided and holier-than-thou information, I've donated more time here to promoting the invertebrate keeping hobby than you've ever donated to a worthy cause in your entire life.  Your taste buds must have broken down somewhere along the way, because someone has fed you a GIANT load of crap, my friend, I only wish you could taste it for yourself.

If you believe what you wrote in the quoted section above, you're delusional as well as condescending.  If you think you walk, run, or drive ANYWHERE without killing anything, you must be a deluded.  I've got a grill full of bugs on my car right now that would disagree heartily with your haughty assertion that you somehow have lowered your impact on other life on this planet to zero... you're typing your posts on a keyboard made from plastic, derived from crude oil, harvested from wells and a refining process that is responsible for tons of pollutants and toxins,and local environmental damager that is most certainly the cause of the death of local fauna.  What, you feel better that you weren't there, pulling the trigger (it's a metaphor, lest you find a way to channel Sarah Brady in addition to Ingrid Newkirk)?

Life's hard, things die, and many times we're the cause of it.  We're the most powerful, impactful, advanced species on the earth, and we're going to run roughshod over lesser species sometimes. That's about as natural as it gets, folks.


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## Brettus (Oct 30, 2007)

> Life's hard, things die, and many times we're the cause of it. We're the most powerful, impactful, advanced species on the earth, and we're going to run roughshod over lesser species sometimes. That's about as natural as it gets, folks.


Thats fine, so long as you remember that the day one of them gets us back, that too is as natural as it comes.  I just hope that some of the people here who declaim how we shouldn't be oversentimental about an animals death  aren't the same people who cry out when someone's taken by a shark, killed by a snake etc.  If us killing them is part of the natural order, surely it applies in reverse as well.


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## Choobaine (Oct 30, 2007)

Mister Internet, good man and hats off to you! *bows happily and wipes a tear from her eye* That was awesome


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## PhilK (Oct 30, 2007)

Pink-Poodle88 said:


> Wanting to save every animal isn't completely natural either, but as the self-proclaimed *1. "higher species" position that humans like to think of themselves as, even though we aren't*, I believe that we should have a moral obligation to cause as little pain and suffering on the earth as possible, even though this one statement is basically just my opinion, but *2. anyone who is actually knowledgeable and actually aware of just how much damage we cause and doesn't feel the same is probably just heartless and/or just selfish if you ask me*.
> 
> A lot of the fundamentals of Bhuddism state the same things, and the most devoted monks will not kill anyone or anything because of their beliefs, an example we should all admire. Bhuddism is one of the few religions I respect personally, though I'm not religious, but I feel as if it's probably one of the few only religions that isn't a hypocritical load of crap, though once again, this is my opinion. We've already done more than enough bad to nature as it is. More than 100 acres of forestry and 2 species are wiped out completely _every single day_ because of us and our selfish needs.
> 
> ...


What a gigantic ton of crap/huge waste of time!!

1. If you don't think humans are a higher species than any other species you have a few roos loose in the top paddock mate.

2. If you wish to preace about lessening your impact, don't come on the internet. That simple act alone uses a butt-load of energy that contributes to pollution/climate change and that other rubbish. Not to mention the 1000s of computers it takes to keep you online.

3. Errrr - wrong. Humans have evolved to be _omnivores_. They need both meat and plant matter to survive. It is wholly more unhealthy to live solely on plants. Much the same as it would be detrimental to live solely on meat.

4. See above post about how vegeterianism impacts on the planet. Large land clearances, tonnes of fertiliser/pesticides, needless slaughter of animals during harvest and the rest.

5. You're of course conveniently ignoring the amount of water it takes to fuel the machines (and make the machines) used for ploughing, used for sowing, used for harvesting. Also the immense amounts of water used to clear the land (and wasted in doing so). The huge amounts of water plants take to grow (far more per day than a cow consumes). And don't forget to conveniently gloss over the amount of water that is used to make fertilisers and pesticides.

6. Do you realise soybeans taste like crap?

7. I did about 5 assignments on this stuff for ecology last year.

8. I've never heard a bigger lie in my entire life.

You seem the kind of person that would support PETA despite the fact they are the biggest cause of animal euthanasia in the world.. The kind of person who would campaign against mulesing Australian sheep despite the fact you've never seen one being eaten by maggots while it was still alive.

As for us being "cruel" in our perceptions of animals and life (as I'm sure you do think), I'm studying to be a vet and in the next 10 years I'll probably help more animals than you will in your entire life by eating tofu.



Sorry for the long post everyone!


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## thedude (Oct 30, 2007)

PhilK said:


> What a gigantic ton of crap/huge waste of time!!
> 
> 1. If you don't think humans are a higher species than any other species you have a few roos loose in the top paddock mate.
> 
> ...


THANK YOU :worship: .. lol you took the words rght outa my mouth.. uhh fingers.

an answer to number 3 if i may add,
humans are saposed to have the same diet as chimps. except lower the bug intake and about 30-40% more meat.

also we evovled  to become a dominate species on this planet... and if we didnt eat a balance of meat and vegies our brains wouldnt have become as advanced.

also i would say it takes just enough land if not more for crops and nto just soy beans, ive bin to soy bean farms and ive bin to farms that raise cows and i honestly have seen more de-foresting to plant crops than to house cows.

my families farm had about 800+ cows on there farm on about 600 acres and a farm that had chickens and that only takes up a half acre.. maybe that and i have bin on farms that have planted soy or corn that take up around 1000 acres and growing and what philK said was true the different furtilizers and pesticides used for farming are more detremental than a cows fart.. so please get into your hybrid car, chomp on a carro stick think about what phil and me have said and go away


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## Brettus (Oct 30, 2007)

> As for us being "cruel" in our perceptions of animals and life (as I'm sure you do think), I'm studying to be a vet and in the next 10 years I'll probably help more animals than you will in your entire life by eating tofu.


True that!



> so please get into your hybrid car, chomp on a carro stick think about what phil and me have said and go away


I don't disagree with your opinion thedude, but I can at least see the spirit behind what poodle is trying to say.  Telling him to take his opinion, which he is entitled to hold and argue, and go away is not conducive for good discussion.  Peace


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## PhilK (Oct 30, 2007)

Poodle is a girl. And a pretty one at that!

I agree it's perfectly OK for her to have her opinion, just as it is erfectly OK for everyone to have their own opinions. I'm just correcting the beliefs she has that are wrong.

It's something I constantly have to do with being a vet and castrating/mulesing/de-horning/tail docking... it's all wah wah wah with everyone!


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## Brettus (Oct 30, 2007)

> It's something I constantly have to do with being a vet and castrating/mulesing/de-horning/tail docking... it's all wah wah wah with everyone!


True, that is why I would vaue your opinion more highly, in that you can't be overly sentimental in your job.  Right and wrong can be pretty shady concepts though.  I agree with poodle on one thing, and that is that I never deliberately kill anything if I can help it, but that is a personal philosophy.  



> Do you people realize that one pound of meat takes 2,500 to 3,000 gallons of water, yet a pound of wheat only takes about 25 gallons of water?


Just so poodle doesn't feel alone   isn't there at least some truth in this?  I remember doing something for biology about the energy pyramid, that says 90% of energy is lost up each step of the pyramid.  That is why the biomass of the top echelons of the pyramid is much smaller than the lower end.


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## PhilK (Oct 30, 2007)

It depends how specific you get. In the end, plants use way more water (something like 50L a day per plant is not unusual in a crop scenario... or 500L... something huge). Plus there is more machinery involved in crops, and these all need to be made (lots of water) and need to run on oil and petrol (water, water). Fertiliser and pesticide uses alot of water too. Not to mention plants end up functioning as huge wicks, drawing water out of the ground and releasing it through stomata into the air.

As for deliberately killing stuff, every time you eat meat you've been responsible for the death of an animal, no matter how indirectly. Every time you eat bread you're responsible for the death of animals during harvesting/growing.. You can't escape it. 

There's nothing wrong with deliberately killing animals. I'll have to put down 1000s of animals in my life time. Does that make me a bad person? Feeding insects to your inverts is killing animals deliberately. etc etc etc


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## Brettus (Oct 30, 2007)

> As for deliberately killing stuff, every time you eat meat you've been responsible for the death of an animal, no matter how indirectly. Every time you eat bread you're responsible for the death of animals during harvesting/growing.. You can't escape it.


Oh I agree-I'm under no misapprehension there.  But by the same token, that does not then mean, just because things die, you can go round killing whatever you want.  Perhaps I should rephrase-I don't like killing stuff directly, where I have a choice.  I have to eat, one way or another, so I can't help it animals are killed in land clearing.  But I can decide whether or not I'm going to squash a spider or let outside, if you know what I mean.



> There's nothing wrong with deliberately killing animals. I'll have to put down 1000s of animals in my life time. Does that make me a bad person?


It certainly does not, and I didin't mean to imply that.  I see it as a form of altruism actually-sometimes it is kinder to put an animal down than let it live.


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## PhilK (Oct 30, 2007)

OK I agree. I too wouldn't kill something for fun. Though somethings I do kill, even though I could let them out. The roaches I get in my house you could saddle up and ride and they gross me out so severely they usually get half a can of Baygon on them.


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## Brettus (Oct 30, 2007)

Lol, fly spray is a touchy subject in my house-with a room full of inverts I won't tolerate it near my room lol


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## Stylopidae (Oct 30, 2007)

Pink-Poodle88 said:


> Wanting to save every animal isn't completely natural either, but as the self-proclaimed "higher species" position that humans like to think of themselves as, even though we aren't, I believe that we should have a moral obligation to cause as little pain and suffering on the earth as possible, even though this one statement is basically just my opinion, but anyone who is actually knowledgeable and actually aware of just how much damage we cause and doesn't feel the same is probably just heartless and/or just selfish if you ask me.


I am studying to be an evolutionary biologist who deals with insects.

This means that when I recieve my PHD, I hope to study and understand how various species of insects are changing in response to the environment.

I am very aware of how much damage we cause and I hope to be one of the people who helps understand _exactly_ how much damage we cause to the environment. Keep this in mind when you are reading my posts.

Whether or not you are vegetarian (I've already shot that facade of moral superiority to shreds, BTW) has nothing to do with this. Mr. I merely killed an invasive species that (like mice and rats, I might add) has established itself around the globe by hitching rides on cargo ships, airplanes and the like.

The fact you are getting on his case because of this pretty much proves you have no idea what you're talking about. You're rambling on and on about how much damage humans cause to the environment, but turn right around and chide someone for fixing one of our mistakes with the sole of his shoe.

Brilliant example of critical thought.



> A lot of the fundamentals of Bhuddism state the same things, and the most devoted monks will not kill anyone or anything because of their beliefs, an example we should all admire. Bhuddism is one of the few religions I respect personally, though I'm not religious, but I feel as if it's probably one of the few only religions that isn't a hypocritical load of crap, though once again, this is my opinion. We've already done more than enough bad to nature as it is. More than 100 acres of forestry and 2 species are wiped out completely _every single day_ because of us and our selfish needs.


See above.

Most of that forest which is destroyed by slash and burn agriculture is actually done for crops. The farmers move on and slash and burn another plot of land when that land is no longer fertile enough for crops.



> Vegetarianism is actually a much, much better diet both for us(because it's healthier) and for the planet and environment as well, for those that felt the need to insult it, and as I state once again for those of you with poor reading comprehension skills, _not that I'm trying to offend any meat eaters or anything._ Do you people realize that one pound of meat takes 2,500 to 3,000 gallons of water, yet a pound of wheat only takes about 25 gallons of water? Did you know that meat uses over 20 times the amount of land to grow the same amount of protein as soybeans? Do you all realize that raising animals for livestock is actually one of the leading man made causes of methane gas/carbon dioxide pollutants in the atmosphere, possibly contributing to global warming? The land that's taken up for growing vegetables/soy products/etc. is literally WAY less than the amount of land taken up for growing animals for meat and the like. Obviously, we live in a world of limited resources for those of you that didn't know, so my views are far more than just for moral reasons.


Did you know that a vegan diet actually kills more animals than a diet composed soley of free range meat?

I mean, seriously...you're killing a bare minimum of one billion mice per year just eating vegetables, and that's assuming that a bare minimum of one mouse per acre of farmland killed per year. Populations of mice can fall as much as 50% right after the harvest.

During a mouse plague, a farmer will kill about half a million mice _per day_ with a poison that makes them bleed to death from the inside out.

That's hardly a cute and fuzzy side to the crop business, isn't it?

Of course, this poison bioaccumulates in the predators and scavengers of these mice and causes thousands or millions more casualities indirectly.

Of course, I suppose you're going to drop some BS on me about 'well my dite klls less lolol!!1!!!'...

...well, I'm not the one with ethical qualms about it. By having ethical qualms about killing animals and then endorsing a process which must kill animals by neccessity, you expose not only your own bias but your own hypocrisy.

Who cares if animals don't die as a direct consequence to your diet?

The methods which produce your diet still kill billions of animals per year. Trillions, actually because you obviously have qualms about killing insects.

Of course, I'll also make sure that from now on your diet kills animals as a _direct_ result of it as well...but that will have to wait until the end of my post.

Mr. I made a quite funny post about killing a species that has introduced itself around the world as a minor pest species.

Get over yourself.

Don't bring up your particular dietary preferance because it has nothing to do with this situation.

The vegan diet is not morally superior to anything, it's more hypocritical than anything.

And don't bring water consumption to it because you have no room to talk there, either. There's an area the size of New Jersey in the Gulf of Mexico where absolutely nothing can live because of fertilizer and pesticide runoff from farming. It's called the dead zone and it's not the only one...there are dozens around the world all caused by the same thing.

You know about the Crown of Thorns starfish that's decimating the great barrier reef?

Also connected to runoff from agrifarming.

How much do you know about environmental damage?

I could go on and on about problems arising from traditional non-livestock farming ventures, and the problems that would arise if fertilizer use increased but I think the above examples are more than enough to prove my point.

Livestock farming is just another example of a type of farming that's bad for the environment, but animal rights groups like to highlight and exaggerate the environmental problems associated with livestock farming while downplaying the problems associated with crop farming because it fits into their political agenda.

Both have serious problems associated with themselves and they're both equally harmful to the environment.



> Furthermore, for those of you that felt compelled to label me as "high and mighty" as I predicted before I even started typing my first post in here, once again, learn to read. I stated specifically that I wasn't trying to offend any meat eaters and that I wasn't trying to act better than anyone else, I simply said I thought it was interesting to point out given the circumstances.


Your arguments are soley from the vantage point of percieved moral superiority...don't give me that.

The intent of your posts is blatantly obvious from even a quick scan and saying this does nothing to hide your motives.



> Even more ridiculous, those that felt the need to call me "misguided"... ehh, do your research first people. Go ahead and look it up, you'd be very surprised. Pretty much everything I stated was a solid fact, aside from stuff that I openly said was just my informed opinion. I try as hard as I can to only go by facts and to be as scientific as possible to avoid being wrong. Arguing against scientific facts is just futile. The way I see it, if you can't back up what you say with facts, then you really might as well not say anything at all.


You used facts from biased sources...or at least made your posts biased. I've actually bothered to look at the facts and crunch the numbers long before you arrived on this scene. I know what I'm talking about and I know far more than most people about this sort of thing.



> And no, I don't kill any animal, ever, and I do mean that literally. I even said specifically that I didn't want to start any arguments, I hate arguments and conflict and I'm sorry to those that I've offended, but I just can't stand when people take life for granted, take nature for granted, and so on. You really should all research just how much we're hurting this planet before slapping the "miSguidEd enVironmEntaList" type crap label that you acquired while watching South Park on someone.


You've never taken a shower?

You've never washed your hands?

You post on a site that's dedicated to predatory invertebrates and you've never tossed any one of them a cricket?

You've never slapped a mosquito? Stepped on a roach? Hit a bug with your car?

Destroyed a spiderweb?

You've never eaten a product that used fertilizer or pesticides in it's production?

Have you ever eaten...period?

Do you own diamonds?

What about gold?

Do you own a cellphone?

Do you use electricity?

Do you eat food produced by mass farming methods?

Do you live in a house?

Drive on an interstate?

Pay taxes?

You have killed animals before, whether you like it or not. Killing any sort of animal or being indirectly responsible for it's death is pretty much unavoidable.

Your hypocrisy becomes even more amusing when you go as far as to denounce people who step on insects, especially when you take a look at how fast they reproduce.

You _are_ a misguided environmentalist...plain and simple. Half your 'facts' sound like they're parroted from animal rights groups who have a tendancy to be oblivious to what they're talking about.

In fact, I'll tell you what. From now on, I will kill 5* roaches from my lobster roach colony every night until you post a picture of yourself eating a hamburger with a side of ribs in the Who's Behind the Computer? thread. They will not be fed to anything, merely flushed down the toilet like the dead animals you leave in the farm feilds to rot for you to obtain your sustinence.

For every animal that you don't kill, I'll kill five of the animals I raise for my pets to eat* per day for no other reason than just to spite you.

It's really nothing out of my way...the colony produces hundreds of new individuals for every one I kill and now you pretty much have to eat meat because eating a hamburger that equals about 1/10000th of a cow suddenly causes less direct animal fatalities than you being a vegan, even if the meat comes from five different animals. Or twenty.

Oh...and I'm totally not trying to offend any vegans or vegetarians. Just so you all know. Don't let my posts fool you...I am totally not trying to be mean in any sort of way.

See?

A disclaimer doesn't really hide any motives. The very least you could do is be honest and admit that you see yourself as somehow morally superior instead of being condecending and passive-aggressive.

Oh...and that lobster roach thing starts tonight at midnight.



PhilK said:


> Poodle is a girl. And a pretty one at that!





thedude said:


> so please get into your hybrid car, chomp on a carro stick think about what phil and me have said and go away


You know what? I checked out her myspace and if she's cute she can totally stay. I am not in support of kicking any girls out of the clubhouse...no matter how misguided they might be. Especially if they're cute. 

I'd just need to see a picture of her face without a ton of contrast and without most of the view being blocked by hair.

Stupid myspace angles.



*Yes, I know it's a total rip off of Maddox's article on vegans...bite me. It's perfectly appropriate in this case.


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## Choobaine (Oct 30, 2007)

Cheshire, for your awesomeness I will give you anything you desire! I was going to start eating live crickets again out of spite but your idea is much better. I salute you!


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## Stylopidae (Oct 30, 2007)

Choobaine said:


> Cheshire, for your awesomeness I will give you anything you desire! I was going to start eating live crickets again out of spite but your idea is much better. I salute you!


_Anything_ I want?

;P  Careful...I might take you up on that. ;P 

You know...it amazes me. I've yet to meet a vegetarian who was actually raised on a farm, or has even had any experience with farming at all. They just assume that farmers are good people who don't eat meat or recreationally hunt and get off the combine to shoo unsuspecting animals out from in front of the machine.

Every single vegetarian I've met was a city kid born and raised who has never had any sort of experience with food production and has led a relatively sheltered life in terms of actually seeing how things are actually produced. This is why they get upset over documentaries like 'Meet Your Meat'.

They also tend to be very moved by emotional pleas and will center their decisions and research around their emotions.

The difference between me and them is that I've actually had to stand before a combine and try to figure out the best way to untangle a deer's neck from it's front legs so I could unclog the thing and get my friend back to work harvesting his crops.

I could go into the gruesome details, but I'm pretty sure nobody wants to visualize what it would look like to pull the deer's hind leg out of it's ribcage.

I'd take a metal spike to the neck any day over that...even if they miss once or twice.

Have no illusions...life isn't pretty. Not one part of it. This is what happens in the real world...whether you want to see it or not.

No point in hiding from it.


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## Choobaine (Oct 30, 2007)

anything! go on take me up on it  I made a promise


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## Galapoheros (Oct 30, 2007)

Wow Mr. I, you're catching allot with this one.  You've brought fishing to a new level.


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## Stylopidae (Oct 30, 2007)

Galapoheros said:


> Wow Mr. I, you're catching allot with this one.  You've brought fishing to a new level.


In his defense, he wasn't really fishing. The first time around, it was pretty obvious to everyone that he was joking and the thread died without so much as a whimper. Nobody cared.

Nearly two years later, someone digging around gets offended at something written two years ago and instead of ignoring what's past, decides to bump the thread up just to complain about someone stomping a bug...probably more jealous they can't find one in their area than actually offended.

Thread start date: 1/25/06
Thread bump date: 10/20/07


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## Galapoheros (Oct 30, 2007)

Defending?  I didn't feel like I was attacking anybody.  I'm enjoying the read .  I'm digging it myself.  Interesting to see the points of view.


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## mindlessvw (Oct 30, 2007)

oh todd stay out of this one...its been crazy! now show a pic of your new catch!!!


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## Galapoheros (Oct 30, 2007)

Haha, I nibbled a little too, oakaleedokelee.


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## thedude (Oct 30, 2007)

umm just so every one knows that last lil thing about the hybrid car was a joke and a stareo type, i didnt meen any harm by it


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## PhilK (Oct 31, 2007)

Cheshire in regards to your post on the previous page; you're so right about any whinging environmentalists/animal hippies being brought up in the city.

Every vegan I know, every veggo I know... _all_ grew up in the city from day one.

The vegans/veggos that stayed outside the killing floor of the abattoir for Uni continue to whinge at me how cruel meat slaughter is despite the fact they have never even seen it being done. If you're going to be morally against something, you should know about it. Especially because it is so quick and painless you have no reason to be upset about it.

Every person that comes to me and whinges about tail docking and teeth clipping piglets grew up eating bacon and has never seen a piggery, not to mention seen the piglets with their tails torn out because nobody docked them.

Every person that comes and has a cry to me about mulesing our Aussie sheep has spent every day of their life in the city and has never even seen a sheep. Let alone one being eaten alive by maggots while crows peck its eyes out...

What's with that?


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