# Melly, the G. rosea with a LOT of issues!



## Ixithel (Apr 30, 2011)

Rescued her from petco a lil over a month ago. She hasn't eaten yet in my care, drinks a lot.
So there was a time when looking in the enclosure of my G. Rosea, Melly to notice her having a ton of coconut fibers in her mouth from the substrate. Eventually as the weeks passed on I gave in and removed the fibers, thinking maybe she's not eating because she has so much crap in her mouth. 

I had my doubts on her sex because of how scrawny she is so while taking pictures I discovered this. 







Look at all that crap in her mouth. Complete with a cat hair. So i use lil tweezers to help her out and this is the end result.







what the hell is that white stuff in her mouth? That can't be normal, I don't recall seeing it before. It's gooey, not hard. I'm so worried T.T opinions/advice?
and she's a male isn't she? x.x

Is she doomed? Do I throw her in an ICU immediately?


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## redrumpslump (Apr 30, 2011)

I'm no expert on nemotodes(spelling) but I do believe they look like white pasty stuff like that and are around the mouth. If it is then it's really really bad and you née to get her away from your other tarantulas.

Matt


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## Echolalia (Apr 30, 2011)

I'm not experienced, and you should get another's opinion on it, but it looks like it could be nematodes. :?


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## Ixithel (Apr 30, 2011)

I hope it's not nematodes...it looks a lot different from this

http://www.giantspiders.com/vagansnematode.jpg

and it's not moving at all

---------- Post added at 02:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:33 AM ----------

http://www.giantspiders.com/article12.html

this article includes some of the symptoms to watch out for. She is always around her water dish and webs a lot, always seems to be wandering around and doesn't eat. Obviously the discharge but her palps and legs seem completely fine.


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## esotericman (Apr 30, 2011)

Make sure you do NOT have any phorid flies or gnats which could vector them to your other animals.  There is nothing you can do most of the time, but in this species, you can try an artificial "fever".  The technique was published in the BTS journal a couple years ago.

To be sure it is nematodes, you place the animal in a clear plastic container with just enough water to cover the bottom.  When the water makes contact with the nematodes, they'll move out of the tarantula.  If the water turns white, it usually nematodes or fecal matter.  Nematodes will look like TINY worms, fecal matter will look like white powder.  You can see the nematodes with your naked eye in good light.  

Since there are two main groups being ID'd as infecting tarantulas, those which feed directly on the animal, and those which use symbiotic bacteria, no one treatment will work as we can not ID which is which without a PhD and some serious tools (PCR and/or microscopy).

IF you do not see any worms, and it is only fecal matter, you might try an ICU.  If it is nematodes the ICU will only cause them to move out of the animal and increase your chances of having them introduced to other tarantulas.

Good luck and I wish we had better knowledge and news for you.


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## JC (Apr 30, 2011)

http://atshq.org/boards/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9483&start=0


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## Ixithel (Apr 30, 2011)

I'm going to try and take a sample of that goop and put it in water and see what happens. Regardless i'm going to set her up an icu tonight and leave her in there until morning and check up on her then. I hope it's not evil parasites. Do you know how it spreads? If shes in the same room as my other Ts it won't harm them right?

---------- Post added at 03:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:33 AM ----------

So I just pinched her and flipped her over and noticed all the white gunk was gone. After pulling various pieces of substrate out her mouth I took a syringe and squirted the area with water. After it pooled up it got slightly cloudy and I looked for a while, hard and close with a light to aid me and saw no moving, squiggly wormy things at all. Her palps move fine, she acts pretty normal (like a rosie). Maybe it was poo or web?


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## Najakeeper (Apr 30, 2011)

Does she eat? When they stop eating when to goo appears is a great sign IMO.


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## AmbushArachnids (Apr 30, 2011)

There is no such thing as rescueing a WC tarantula from a pet store. It supports them to buy more WC specimens. You may try to save one dying tarantula but in turn a healthy one is/may be plucked from the wild. Not judging, i own a few WC specimens myself. Im just pointing out the cold facts of the trade.


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## Raven9464 (Apr 30, 2011)

*stressed?*

She could just be stressed. Before you purchased her, was she housed in a small container? I have had two adult Ts purchased from a LPS that wouldn't eat until I put them back in a small container like they were in in the pet store.  Seems they were so used to living in close quarters and not having to "hunt" for their food, that they were maybe "overwhelmed" by their new spacious homes.  Keep us posted please.


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## redrumpslump (Apr 30, 2011)

Did you read the OP at all? This isabout white fluid coming out of the tarantulas mouth possibly bing nemotoeds. It has nothing to do with it being stressed or not eating.

Matt


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## Raven9464 (Apr 30, 2011)

*To Matt*



redrumpslump said:


> Did you read the OP at all? This isabout white fluid coming out of the tarantulas mouth possibly bing nemotoeds. It has nothing to do with it being stressed or not eating.
> 
> Matt


Hmmm...This is a quote from the "OP" - :

"Rescued her from petco a lil over a month ago. _*She hasn't eaten yet in my care, drinks a lot."*_

My suggestion/comment was to BOTH problems....suggesting the white discharge is nothing to worry about


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## curiousme (Apr 30, 2011)

Raven9464 said:


> Hmmm...This is a quote from the "OP" - :
> 
> "Rescued her from petco a lil over a month ago. _*She hasn't eaten yet in my care, drinks a lot."*_
> 
> My suggestion/comment was to BOTH problems....suggesting the white discharge is nothing to worry about


Why would you think that an unknown white substance around the mouth was nothing to worry about?  Do you have something you are basing that advice on?

---------- Post added at 09:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:27 AM ----------

Ixithel ~ I would keep an eye on it for at least a day and see if the white substance stays gone.  Our _P. regalis_ has scared us a couple times by having poo in its mouth for over a day, so we separated her enclosure and watched her and it went away.  She acted perfectly fine, so we didn't ICU her.  That said, drinking excessively can be a sign of nematodes(if my memory is correct) and so I would keep it separated and watched.  If it comes back, get a sample and do the test.  I hope it doesn't come back though!


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## Mez (Apr 30, 2011)

Raven9464 said:


> She could just be stressed. Before you purchased her, was she housed in a small container? I have had two adult Ts purchased from a LPS that wouldn't eat until I put them back in a small container like they were in in the pet store.  Seems they were so used to living in close quarters and not having to "hunt" for their food, that they were maybe "overwhelmed" by their new spacious homes.  Keep us posted please.


This is because a lot of people give their Ts way oversized enclosures without substrate to burrow. They feel secure.


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## esotericman (Apr 30, 2011)

curiousme said:


> I would keep an eye on it for at least a day and see if the white substance stays gone.  Our _P. regalis_ has scared us a couple times by having poo in its mouth for over a day, so we separated her enclosure and watched her and it went away.


Uric acid will not dissolve in water readily, so taking some and putting it in water will let you know if it is feces.  It's not uncommon in arboreals for some reason.  

Please read that thread on ATS just so folks don't have to repeat over and over the same information.

Nematodes are lethal unless you try an experimental "cure" and get lucky.  A 38C heat treatment "MIGHT" work for this species of nematode, if that is what this is.  It might kill the animal right out.

As for drinking, infected spiders will "head stand" in the water dish for long periods of time.  Often the fangs are locked thus they can not drink nor feed nor groom, which explains the substrate build up in infected animals.

Again, the OP must identify if this is nematodes or fecal matter.

Lastly, phorid flies are well supported vectors.  If you have any other tarantulas and phorid flies, you'll loose them as well.  Guy's link should have information there.  Microscreens or moving them out of the house is the only protection which is 100%.


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## Ixithel (Apr 30, 2011)

*Najakeeper-- *She hasn't eaten anything yet, when I got her from the petstore they claimed to give her a cricket a day and obviously, you can tell she didn't eat because her abdomen is so....anorexic?

*AgentD006las-*- as that is true, she might have been purchased regardless and it's best that someone who has a pretty good idea at how to care for them gets her then say....a ten year old boy that wants it just for the coolness factor.

*Raven9464--* Actually they kept her in a 5ish gallon with hardly any substrate, maybe a half inch covering the flooring? Her enclosure now is a lot more snug but has enough room if she wanted to wander. I don't think she would have any trouble hunting, burrowing, finding her dish etc.

*UPDATE:* So I decided not to stick her in an icu and instead moved her away from my other Ts. I just checked on her again and she still had substrate sticking to her mouth but upon removing it I saw no traces of white anything anywhere. She was moving her palps and her fangs, obviously not very pleased with me. What I am going to do is keep her away from my collection and check on her daily.


*Another Question:* From this pic here





(Sorry, photobucket ate the high res so it's hard to tell) Some users commented on her looking dehydrated. She drinks quite regularly so i'm not sure what I can do to help her feel better. Any suggestions?


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## redrumpslump (Apr 30, 2011)

Raven9464 said:


> Hmmm...This is a quote from the "OP" - :
> 
> "Rescued her from petco a lil over a month ago. _*She hasn't eaten yet in my care, drinks a lot."*_
> 
> My suggestion/comment was to BOTH problems....suggesting the white discharge is nothing to worry about


So you personally know it's not nemotoeds? No you don't. I always see you posting untrue stuff on here. You should stop that it makes you look dumb.

Back on topic. If it's gone it could have been poop or webbing. I would just keep a close eye on it.

Matt


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## esotericman (Apr 30, 2011)

Actually unless you put some of the mess into water and looked, you still do not know what it was.

http://atshq.org/boards/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=18272

In that thread you can see masses of nematodes, but that is under a 'scope, not a macro on a camera.  They move in and out of your vision, the locked fangs could or could not be a sign again based on the species infecting the tarantula.


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## Ixithel (Apr 30, 2011)

*Update* I noticed a similar substance on my P. murinus sling, however he had _just_ consumed a roach. Yesterday I dropped a roach into everyone's enclosure and left it. I know three of my T's ate for sure.

I've never seen Melly eat but it could be possible that perhaps she did nom the roach. I can't find a bolus or the roach itself. She could have hid the bolus or didn't eat the roach at all, could still be burrowed. The only way of checking for sure would be to tear up her enclosure and dig around for the roach and I don't think she would be very happy with me.

If this means she ate, and that white stuff was liquified roach, then I am extremely relieved.

*esotericman * Since the substance was missing I drabbled water over her mouth area and when it built up I looked for anything wormy. Didn't see anything. I also scraped at her mouth where it was and squished it in water and didn't see anything either. If I see this white substance again then I will scoop a gloop and find out.


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## Ixithel (May 2, 2011)

*Update*- just checked her again. Not very pleased with me, tried to bite me a couple times. Palps moving, fangs bared, angry little rosie but NO white discharge.!


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## Raven9464 (May 2, 2011)

redrumpslump said:


> So you personally know it's not nemotoeds? No you don't. I always see you posting untrue stuff on here. You should stop that it makes you look dumb.
> 
> Back on topic. If it's gone it could have been poop or webbing. I would just keep a close eye on it.
> 
> Matt


REally?, Well thanks for the compliment =)  Funny how that white discharge is gone now though huh? I didn't say I knew it wasn't nemotoeds.  I SUGGESTED that since it hadn't re-appeared again, that maybe the discharge wasn't anything to worry about.  That maybe the more urgent issue was the _*stress*_?  
If that makes me sound dumb, then oh well.  Everyone has their own opinions.....At least I wasn't insulting when I stated mine :?

TO THE OP:

Glad to hear at least that there isn't any more discharge.  Sounds to me like you are doing all you can. Hopefully all will clear up and she will eat again soon.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Musicwolf (May 2, 2011)

Ixithel said:


> *Update*- just checked her again. Not very pleased with me, tried to bite me a couple times. Palps moving, fangs bared, angry little rosie but NO white discharge.!


If I were you, I would now leave her alone for a good long while - - it appears that you're annoying a perfectly healthy tarantula - lol.


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## Ixithel (May 3, 2011)

*Raven9464-* I hope so too! I need to fatten that poor thing up when it does decide to eat.

*Musicwolf* Yeeesss, thats what I was going for....until Melly decided to dirty up the water dish x.x


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## Moltar (May 3, 2011)

There is a 3rd possibility in addition to nematodes or fecal matter, which is a fungal/yeast infection of the digestive tract. This can also be lethal. Sorry, but I don't know much about this beyond that it exists and presents similar symptoms (white oral discharge and lethargy)


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## esotericman (May 5, 2011)

Moltar,

Yeah, if the white discharge had dissipated in water, we'd have had an answer to that question as well.

I have never seen these infections, but have read about them.  My assumption (and that is all it is) is that bacteria/fungi/yeast infections would be extremely rare in _G. rosea_.


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## Bill S (May 5, 2011)

esotericman said:


> Uric acid will not dissolve in water readily, so taking some and putting it in water will let you know if it is feces.


In reptiles the white material in feces is uric acid.  In spiders it's largely guanine.  I don't know what the solubility of guanine is.

Otherwise - I agree that the only way to diagnose nematodes for sure is to put a little of the suspected substance in a drop of water and look for tiny worms.  No worms - no nematodes.  If it's yeast, as someone else suggested - putting it under a microscope would be very helpful.


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## zonbonzovi (May 5, 2011)

Bill S said:


> In spiders it's largely guanine.


The stuff used in various energy drinks?  I knew there was a reason I reacted so poorly to those Jaeger/Red Bull "drinks"


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## BrettG (May 5, 2011)

That is Taurine,lol.


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## zonbonzovi (May 5, 2011)

Brett, I was just being a smartass  Some do contain guanine...it is an amino acid(?- my chemistry knowledge is suspect) and has stimulant properties.  I was just envisioning some backyard brewer trying to make his own energy drink w/ T poo 

Bottoms up!


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## Cuddly Cobalt (May 5, 2011)

zonbonzovi said:


> Brett, I was just being a smartass  Some do contain guanine...it is an amino acid(?- my chemistry knowledge is suspect) and has stimulant properties.  I was just envisioning some backyard brewer trying to make his own energy drink w/ T poo
> 
> Bottoms up!


they also use bird poo in redbull


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## esotericman (May 5, 2011)

Bill S said:


> In reptiles the white material in feces is uric acid.  In spiders it's largely guanine.  I don't know what the solubility of guanine is.


I need to hit the lit unless you have a reference handy, as I'm finding mixtures of uric acid and guanine and others via the search engines.  Of course fecal material never seems overly soluble to me regardless of the constituents.


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## Bill S (May 6, 2011)

zonbonzovi said:


> Some do contain guanine...it is an amino acid(?- my chemistry knowledge is suspect) and has stimulant properties.


It's a nucleoside base - a purine, is one of the four building blocks of DNA (guanine, cytosine, adenine and thymine), and hence is found in all living things.  Stimulant properties?  Never heard of them.  I think you may be confusing guanine with something else.

---------- Post added at 10:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:20 PM ----------




esotericman said:


> I need to hit the lit unless you have a reference handy, as I'm finding mixtures of uric acid and guanine and others via the search engines.  Of course fecal material never seems overly soluble to me regardless of the constituents.


In a discussion on the topic either here or on the ATS forum someone brought up the issue about a year ago.  I had assumed it was uric acid (my background had been more with reptiles than with arachnids), but someone posted a link to some literature.  There were several major constituents, guanine being the highest.


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## rustym3talh3ad (May 6, 2011)

Bill S said:


> It's a nucleoside base - a purine, is one of the four building blocks of DNA (guanine, cytosine, adenine and thymine), and hence is found in all living things.  Stimulant properties?  Never heard of them.  I think you may be confusing guanine with something else.


guarana maybe? 

*OP:* i have had T's with a similar issue, but only when i did not water them for an extensive period of time. they would start "eating" their fecal matter and i would see it on their labium...freak out, water them...they would clean them selves...problem gone. i know this may or may not even be remotely the same thing but currently it looks like i see a ton of anecdotal information and not much solid fact/evidence. lol. oh well.


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## Bill S (May 6, 2011)

rustym3talh3ad said:


> guarana maybe?


Yup.  More acurately guaraná, but that's the "stimulant" that guanine was being confused with.  Here's something I copied off an advertisement for guaraná:


> Guarana contains tetra methylxanthine (as much as 5.8%!), a compound almost identical to caffeine...


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## rustym3talh3ad (May 6, 2011)

Bill S said:


> Yup.  More acurately guaraná, but that's the "stimulant" that guanine was being confused with.  Here's something I copied off an advertisement for guaraná:


If i drank things with Guaraná instead of caffeine would i still get caffeine withdrawl headaches? :?


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## zonbonzovi (May 7, 2011)

Bill S said:


> It's a nucleoside base - a purine, is one of the four building blocks of DNA (guanine, cytosine, adenine and thymine), and hence is found in all living things.  Stimulant properties?  Never heard of them.  I think you may be confusing guanine with something else.


Yeah Bill, I apparently picked up some bad info. on the interwebs...did a little product search while purchasing my convenience store breakfast & no guanine could be found in the ingredients listing.  A little part of me was hoping New Jersey food additive scientists had figured out how to process animal feces into consumables...kinda like the old 80s rumor that landfill materials were being processed into frozen food.


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## gmrpnk21 (May 8, 2011)

So has the white stuff reappeared?


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## Ixithel (May 9, 2011)

gmrpnk21 said:


> So has the white stuff reappeared?


Nope! I checked on it yesterday and no white stuff at all.


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## gmrpnk21 (May 10, 2011)

Awesome! Hopefully it was just poop. I am watching two of mine very closely to see if it reappears.


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## Ixithel (May 19, 2011)

*G. Rosea---> critical condition *pics**

Hello, if there is one thing i'm going to do is try to save this T. She/he was my first and if there is any possible way to get her through this then I will do whatever I can. So suggesting I put her in the freezer is something i'd like to put on the back burner.

So if you remember me I posted this: http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=207641

It was a nematode scare pretty much and eventually the wet stuff went away so I dismissed it as poo or web or something. I tested it in water and saw no wriggly nothing.

It's back, and she's doing worse now.
Melly had always been skinny. I got her from petco and she has never eaten or molted in my care. I'm pretty sure she was a big drinker when I first got her.

I was asking one of my friends because she has taken to the habit of hunching near her dish so I took some pics.






*Upon prodding her softly with a brush i noticed this*






*yes, this*







it looks like a shriveled grape. I know she had always been skinny but that is beyond not normal. After bawling my eyes out hysterically I placed her in a well hydrated ICU and left her in the dark until I came home. Before I left her be in a nice quiet dark spot I pinch grabbed her and dripped water onto her mouth parts. She DID drink I'm sure.. 
















Finding her still alive I flipped her over to check on her. Low and behold the *white stuff once again!*






So I pulled on a bit with tweezers and a chunk came off...She smells, you guys. The T smells like old wet boots that haven't dried properly and the more i pulled and messed with the white gunk the stronger the smell got. It wasn't intense but T's are NOT supposed to smell and that white stuff smells.

I dripped water on it to observe for nematodes, *I saw nothing swimming or wriggling.*












Finally I let her have enough and placed her on the floor, got an update pic of her shriveled butt. It's tiny...it's almost gross to look at.







Whats wrong with her? What do I do? What more can I do? Help T.T
Oh, and i'd like to rule out nematode infestation and freezing her again.
She's active, spins webs, moves her palps and fangs when crabby. She acts like a normal typical rosie but this is not normal. I think her only hope is getting her to eat...and I don't even...

Fungal infection, Bacterial?

I will be leaving her in the ICU at LEAST until tomorrow when I get up. She will be isolated from my others.






*Help me save this T?* T____T
One thing i'm going to try is slitting a roach and tempting her with the innards..


Oh and here is Melly last month I reckon. Notice how her abdomen is small, but not shriveled


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## KoriTamashii (May 19, 2011)

Based on your pics, I'm pretty sure that's a mature male; and likely on its last legs. Are their hooks under his first two legs? And do his pedipalps have bulbs? It looks like it in these pics, but the angles are odd, so I can't be sure.


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## Ixithel (May 19, 2011)

KoriTamashii said:


> Based on your pics, I'm pretty sure that's a mature male; and likely on its last legs. Are their hooks under his first two legs? And do his pedipalps have bulbs? It looks like it in these pics, but the angles are odd, so I can't be sure.


I'm pretty sure it is a male, but not mature. No hooks nor bulbs just reallly reaaaaallllllly skinny.
I just keep calling it 'she' out of bad habit @.@ it'll be a she to me until a molt proves me otherwise!


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## Hobo (May 19, 2011)

You can see it's palps and legs in several photos and it's clear it isn't a mature male. In fact, I'd guess it would be female maybe based on that ventral shot (the skinny abdomen and not-so-clear photos make it hard to see).

Anyway, I would have guessed nematodes, but I know next to nothing about that.
If it smells, I'm thinking bacterial?
Sorry, I'm of no help. Good luck with her though.


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## Ixithel (May 19, 2011)

Hobo said:


> You can see it's palps and legs in several photos and it's clear it isn't a mature male. In fact, I'd guess it would be female maybe, based on that ventral shot.
> 
> Anyway, I would have guessed nematodes, but I know next to nothing about that.
> If it smells, I'm thinking bacterial?
> Sorry, I'm of no help. Good luck with her though.


Female, male i'll love that poor T the same.

From my last thread I posted I did look up a lot of info on nematodes and it just doesn't really add up, not to mention if it was she might have been dead by now? 

I'm also wondering...bacterial or fungal, putting Melly in an ICU with moisture would make the situation worse right?

thanks for the good luck wishes : )


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## PhobeToPhile (May 19, 2011)

The big thing is, can she still move her palps and chelicerae? In the advanced stages the nematode infection actually devours the musculature of those, causing them to "freeze". Can you take some of the white stuff and look at it under a microscope?


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## Ixithel (May 19, 2011)

PhobeToPhile said:


> The big thing is, can she still move her palps and chelicerae? In the advanced stages the nematode infection actually devours the musculature of those, causing them to "freeze". Can you take some of the white stuff and look at it under a microscope?


Yes she can  she tried nom nom nomming me while I had her pinch grabbed yesterday. Not very happy with me at all. But like I said i've been skeptical about nematodes for nearly a month now and nothing weird is happening with her palps. I can't examine under a microscope but I have put a clump in water and nothing dispersed. It looked like kind of it you chipped off some chalk and places it in water.


Oh and UPDATE: I am going to place her into the same container without papertowels and drop a roach in there so it can't burrow and see if she gets it. With a water dish of course : )

She just haired me too, not sure if thats a good sign or anything, certainly not on my end *scratches*


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## captmarga (May 19, 2011)

Glad you are doing the best for him/her... looks male to me in the leg photo also. 

I have a MM A. metallica that is old and skinny, too.  He will drink but will not eat.  I am going to try some cricket soup on him. 

As for the smelly gook... without knowing his/her background... isolation is the best thing, washing hands after messing with him. 

Good luck, 

Marga


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## Nerri1029 (May 19, 2011)

Hobo said:


> *You can see it's palps and legs in several photos and it's clear it isn't a mature male.* In fact, I'd guess it would be female maybe based on that ventral shot (the skinny abdomen and not-so-clear photos make it hard to see).
> 
> Anyway, I would have guessed nematodes, but I know next to nothing about that.
> If it smells, I'm thinking bacterial?
> Sorry, I'm of no help. Good luck with her though.


Obviously something going on near the mouth, what? too hard to tell from just pics. My knee jerk answer was nematodes also. 

Do you have access to a microscope?


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## Ixithel (May 19, 2011)

*captmarga*- Yeah I currently have poor Melly in the closet away from the rest.

*Nerri1029* The white stuff comes and goes, i'm not sure if I mentioned it before. There was that one time in my previous thread and now this time. Most of the time it looks normal

I do not have access to a microscope, but if I did, would taking a clump and putting it under work? I'm not sure whatever might be living in there would be alive by the time I took it to where I might be able to use a microscope unless I bring the T as well. Not sure how that works.


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## toast4nat (May 19, 2011)

If you do get access to a microscope it wouldn't matter if what you were looking at was dead or not. You'd have to smear it on a slide and look at it through the scope. I'm sure you know what nematodes would look like (little wormy things) but I'm not sure what a fungus would look like.

Good luck with your T


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## Ixithel (May 19, 2011)

http://www.giantspiders.com/ailments.html

According to this, it seems like Melly might have a dehydration issue but as you scroll down the nematode infested T picture looks nothing like Melly's issue.


Honestly, if she would EAT I wouldn't be freaking out so much because if she can eat then we can completely rule out nematodes and if she eats she will fatten up and get healthy again.


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## Mez (May 19, 2011)

It looks a good size, and from a chain will prolly be wild caught...could just be an old female coming to the end of her days. Maybe put a post up seeing if anyone lical to you has a microscope?


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## Ixithel (May 19, 2011)

*Mez*- It is very possible, that lps knew nothing about her. I should have been smart and bought from a breeder but like I said, I do not regret buying Melly at all but I definitely learned from this. 




*Also, anyone have any tips to help me feed her? There is an female roach in the icu container with her and she's ignoring it. perhaps if I decapitate the roach or crush it or make a sort of soup it will help her fatten up? Suggestions please?*


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## Mez (May 19, 2011)

She's probably shutting down internally, does she drink?


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## Ixithel (May 19, 2011)

Mez said:


> She's probably shutting down internally, does she drink?


She does drink, she's just never eaten in my care... she COULD be old but I guess i'll never know. I just need her to eat @.@ seems life or death given her abdomen went from full-skinny to shrivled-skinny in under a month

---------- Post added at 06:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:34 PM ----------

Also, as I attempt to encourage her to feed tonight I will be taking pictures. Is there anything specific you guys want to see? I will take more high res pics of her mouth, definitely. Regardless I will be returning her back to her enclosure tonight and isolating her from my other Ts

---------- Post added at 06:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:13 PM ----------

_Alright so I took her out of the ICU, crushes a roach and set it before her hide._


First thing I did was take before pics. Now the pics on my first post were all what it looked like after water was thrown in the mix. This is what it looks like before any tampering.






After examining I found a bit of substrate in her mouth so I removed that then proceeded to wet the area. As you can see, the white is farther down her mouth, not INSIDE it but more on the underside. When I prod it it's like a never ending scab of white goo. We swished a couple clumps in some water and still saw no worms.







I took a Q-tip and cleaned the area, she did not like that and was moving her fangs like a crazy. Can't be nematodes as she doesn't portray the obvious symptom of paralyzed palps.

Area cleaned:






Afterwards I gave her a new water dish and placed her into her enclosure where she immediately went into her hide (don't blame her). I crushed a roach and the innards shot out the back (yes, ew) and I put the struggling insect right in front of her hide, innards pointing her way. I put her in the dark away from my other T's. I guess all I can do is hope she eats right now.


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## DamoK21 (May 20, 2011)

I had a simular problem once upon a time. The girl was very skinny, shriveled to be exact. No white discharge/crap around her mouth, but again very thin.

She is alive and well today , and doing great !!

Id advise you to try the same as i did, regarding her severe dehydration/under weight issue.

Get a bowl, and a long blunt/rounded off object to use to crush 2 crickets up. Of course crush them . Now once you have done that, use the ever so handy restraint/pinch grab, and hold her upside down....

Use a pipette/syringe/small spoon to suck/pick up a small amount of "cricket soup", and put on her mouth parts... Be sure to get it in her mouth parts well, After the cricket soup has disapeared, get a small drop of water, and put on her mouth parts. and rotate this every 5 - 6 hours (or until all the liquid/food item/s have gone). Do this for 1 day, then give her a "rest/de-stress" period from the ordeal. Try again after 24 hours of resting, and go at it again, keep rotating this, until she begins to show sighns of improvement. If there is no improvement what so ever, then maybe spreading this out abit to allow more time to de -stress from her troubles.

As for the white stuff, i can only but say, keep wipeing it away every time it appears, until you can find a microscope, then as said smeer some on a slide, and have a look ...

Other than that, im stummped


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## Ixithel (May 20, 2011)

DamoK21 said:


> I had a simular problem once upon a time. The girl was very skinny, shriveled to be exact. No white discharge/crap around her mouth, but again very thin.
> 
> She is alive and well today , and doing great !!
> 
> ...


Okay i'll definitely try that  Is your girl fattened up and eating normally now?

*Update: I'm not sure what this means but that crushed roach I gave her? She's really interested in it. She's been in her hide hovering over it and I just looked and she's holding the sac of contained goo but not eating yet. Could this mean she wants to eat but can't or is she thinking about it? Gaaah I should shank the goo sack with a needle so it spills out.*


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## gmrpnk21 (May 20, 2011)

Weird! Mine have been okay since I saw that similar white substance a few weeks ago. I guess I am checking them again when I get home. They ate a couple days ago...


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## DamoK21 (May 20, 2011)

Ixithel said:


> Okay i'll definitely try that  Is your girl fattened up and eating normally now?
> 
> *Update: I'm not sure what this means but that crushed roach I gave her? She's really interested in it. She's been in her hide hovering over it and I just looked and she's holding the sac of contained goo but not eating yet. Could this mean she wants to eat but can't or is she thinking about it? Gaaah I should shank the goo sack with a needle so it spills out.*


Yep she sure is , she has molted twice since then and is doing amazing 

the fact she has some in her mouth, means alot , dont worry shell eat it im sure , if not oready, have a look and see if she has finished eating it. If not then leave her till tomorrow, if it is still there, remove it from her and try what i said  

really do hope this works out for you, your first is always the one you have that extra "bond" with. Keep us updated on her, your doing a great job


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## Ixithel (May 20, 2011)

DamoK21 said:


> Yep she sure is , she has molted twice since then and is doing amazing
> 
> the fact she has some in her mouth, means alot , dont worry shell eat it im sure , if not oready, have a look and see if she has finished eating it. If not then leave her till tomorrow, if it is still there, remove it from her and try what i said
> 
> really do hope this works out for you, your first is always the one you have that extra "bond" with. Keep us updated on her, your doing a great job


Thanks a lot, i'm doing all I can for her. She's my baby and any bite I might get from fussing with her too much will be worth it completely if I can get her healthy again!


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## esotericman (May 21, 2011)

What is the animal doing to drink or have you seen it drink?

Again, like I said in your previous thread, and along with Nerri, it really does look like nematodes.  They migrate in and out, and if the animal only has immatures, it's possible that you won't see them unless you find a microscope with at least 200x (20x with 10x oculars).

I know you care a great deal about your tarantula.  That's cool as hell.  But I'm going to just cut to the point.

White stuff around the mouth, unless it's food remains is going to be fecal matter, nematodes, or bacteria/fungi/yeast.

If it's nematodes, you absolutely need to protect any other tarantulas you have in the house by using microscreening to prevent phorid flies from moving the nematodes around.  You should also not use tools between sick and healthy animals, and wash your hands.  If it is nematodes, your feeders are suspect as well.  Also if nematodes, there is very little to be done, although an artificial "fever" has worked in G. rosea before.

If it's fecal matter... I'm at a complete loss why the animal would do it over and over. Also the spread away from the mouth parts doesn't fit from your pictures.

If it's a mish-mash of other microorganisms, well, you've passed outside my experience.  Moltar had mentioned this possibility, and I've heard of it, but the hows and whats and what to dos are a mystery.

Trust me, not knowing drives me completely around the bend, absolutely crackers.  But the only way to know what you have is to lay hands on a microscope.  Maybe you have a vet who'd look?  Anything you can do to get a better look might help.

---------- Post added at 12:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:29 AM ----------




DamoK21 said:


> I had a simular problem once upon a time. The girl was very skinny, shriveled to be exact. No white discharge/crap around her mouth, but again very thin.


The loss of adipose tissue is normal with very old tarantulas.  My first was with me over 15 years, and the same thing happened.


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## Ixithel (May 21, 2011)

*esotericman* She drinks, she bites, moves her palps and everything. From what I read on nematodes when the T owner discovers the wormy mouth it usually dies very shortly after. I've been looking at her for a while and if she used to have so much substrate in her mouth before I wouldn't be surprised if she had the white even before I checked the first time.


*Update-- She never ate and is currently chilling next to her water dish. I'm going to try the roach soup on her when I get back from work*


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## esotericman (May 25, 2011)

Ixithel said:


> *esotericman* She drinks, she bites, moves her palps and everything. From what I read on nematodes when the T owner discovers the wormy mouth it usually dies very shortly after.[/B]


One of the possible signs of nematodes is head standing, it is not a sure thing.  The issue is that saying "nematode" is like saying "tree", which one is it?  There are several species which could infect tarantulas.  Furthermore, I had a _P. cambridgei_ live for months with a full blown nematode infection.  If people notice them and then the animal dies, it is probably because they're not paying attention enough to notice the signs. 

I hope you update this thread as things progress.  I do not believe there is anything you can do though.  I'm sorry.


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## Ixithel (Jun 3, 2011)

*Update*

She's still the same. Always hovering around her water dish.
Today I pulled her out to see if I could get her to eat. Of course she wouldn't, typical. So I pinch grabbed her to check on her white stuff situation.
I'm not sure what it is, but the white stuff is HARD. Like really hard. Crusted, impossible to break with my tweezers or pull out (not that I wanted to be yanking at my T's mouth anyway) so I drabbled water on it, removed the chunk (which came out with some sub that was stuck in her mouthparts) and took a sample of the crud in her mouth. I placed it on my white counter and went at it with a magnifying glass (hey, what else can I do. I don't have a microscope so it doesn't hurt to try) and I saw nothing movin around. The water on the counter appeared cloudy and a slight brownish tint to it)

The white crusty stone looks similar to the chalky chunks I find in her enclo which I assume to be poo.

So I did as DamoK21 suggested and took a fat lil roach and crushed it, squeezing the innards out into a bowl and adding some water to it. I sucked up the gloop with a syringe and pinch grabbed her. Over the course of five minutes I dropped the liquid onto her mouth parts. The syringe is 1.0 ml and was full and I was able to get all of it onto her mouth with only about three small drops sliding off. This is a good indication she took it in right? The liquid would pool up and then go down enough so I could add more...just seems like good news to me. If she didn't consume any of it I'm certain most of it would puddle up and drool off.

She also seemed to get a bit excited when I squished a gooey gut piece out onto her mouth. Her fangs went wild and it disappeared into the cloudy soup mixture.

After the last drop I put her in her enclosure with fresh water and placed her back in my closet away from the others. I'm not sure if this is a good start or if nothing will change. What do you guys think? I am probably going to try this again in a few days and see if I can get her fat and healthy.


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## Meecht (Jun 3, 2011)

Maybe you could take a sample of the white stuff to a local vet?  Even if they don't have experience with exotic pets, they would still have a microscope to check for parasites in fecal samples of dogs/cats.  They might be willing to either let you use their equipment (doubtful), or at least inspect the sample themselves for anything unusual.


Totally uneducated question, but is it possible that the white spot was originally caused by the T being over-eager for a meal and puncturing herself with her own fangs?  Will hemolymph harden into a sort of scab to stop further loss?


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## Ixithel (Jun 3, 2011)

Meecht said:


> Maybe you could take a sample of the white stuff to a local vet?  Even if they don't have experience with exotic pets, they would still have a microscope to check for parasites in fecal samples of dogs/cats.  They might be willing to either let you use their equipment (doubtful), or at least inspect the sample themselves for anything unusual.
> 
> 
> Totally uneducated question, but is it possible that the white spot was originally caused by the T being over-eager for a meal and puncturing herself with her own fangs?  Will hemolymph harden into a sort of scab to stop further loss?


I wanted to take a sample to my old science teacher...she was the one who got me wanting Ts...but her ass never even replied x.x I'm gonna send her another mail.

and I have no idea...I feel like the white isn't even IN her mouth, but on the outside, Gah it's so hard to tell, none of my Ts are this weird except my A.avic who hasn't eaten ever since i got him


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## Ixithel (Jun 7, 2011)

*UPDATE....sorta?*

Wellll...I checked her mouth, she has chunky crusties but most of it's from the syringe feeding I attempted doing. Also the chalky white stuff of course, still not eating, still skinny, but so damn cute. T.T

Scrawny...







Ignoring...







NOT interested (wasn't even biting)














D'awwww T.T


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## Meecht (Jun 8, 2011)

Were you ever able to contact your science teacher?

I don't know if you saw it or not, but I found this post on the forum from a person with a similar problem 

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=59650

Their T recovered, but unexpectedly died a few months later.

Another forum user sent a sample of the discharge to a non-profit organization called the Research Institute for Exotic Species Microbiology to be tested, and the results came back as a type of yeast (http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13052).

I don't know if the institute is still around because that post is from 8 years ago, and the URL given for the institute is no longer working.  However, one of the members listed their email address in the post.  Maybe you could try to contact them to see if they ever came to any conclusions as to cause and/or possible treatment.

I didn't read your previous thread, so I hope this isn't all duplicate info.


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## Ixithel (Jun 8, 2011)

Meecht said:


> Were you ever able to contact your science teacher?
> 
> I don't know if you saw it or not, but I found this post on the forum from a person with a similar problem
> 
> ...


I haven't yet got a response from her, but I think I will send her another one right now.

I took a look at those links and hmm...it does rather sound like a yeast. I HIGHLY doubt its nematodes because she's had this problem for as long as I could remember, probably had it when I bought her and she's still alive. When nematode glop forms at the mouth their supposed to die shortly after.

I'll also try to contact them. Thanks


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## LV-426 (Jun 9, 2011)

i wonder, is there necrotic tissue or is this an interna problem.?


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## demonanjel117 (Jun 9, 2011)

Any progress?


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## Ixithel (Jun 10, 2011)

There has been no progress. Though her behavior is really strange, I never gave it much thought but she's always done this.


Day in a life of Melly:

I wake up and there she is, curled over her water bowl. Not actually over it but more like she's hanging on it and then flopped over. She remains like this most of the day.

Occasionally she will get up and go huddle near the side of in her burrow but 90% of her time spent is in that same position near her water bowl. She also dips the tips of her first sets of legs into it. Sometimes I get concerned and lift the enclosure to get a better look, take the top off or maybe blow a puff on her. She moves. She's always done this ever since of being in my care but I fear she's becoming more lethargic. Though when I DO bother her and stroke her back leg with the paintbrush she turns around instantly and spreads out like she should, grabbing the brush and thats about it.

She still walks normal, fangs still move like a bat out of hell when I pinch grab her but she pretty much leans on the water dish most of the day.








Maybe the water dish is too high? Idk, I don't feel like it is but maybe for her.... not sure. I live in WA so you already know it's humid enough in here. I never mist her enclo, just leave that big ol' water dish.


No one ever emailed me back either so I'm at a loss once again. I also don't really trust myself to pinch grab her anymore, possibly because i'm stupid and not sure how to do it right as she always flails her legs and digs her feet hooks into my skin and pulls herself out of the hold and yeah...not sure i'm ready to get tagged. >.>

She currently has a roach that lives with her somewhere as well

Edit- her dish is usually always clean and I removed that leaf that she put in there by herself a while ago


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## Singapore_Blue1 (Jun 10, 2011)

Ixithel said:


> There has been no progress. Though her behavior is really strange, I never gave it much thought but she's always done this.
> 
> 
> Day in a life of Melly:
> ...


Listen....Clean the water dish out...Then add fresh luke warm water to it. Next get a cue tip and get that white gunk out of her mouth parts. Thats why she is not eating man...I would have the rest of the container pretty dry other than the water dish.


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## Ixithel (Jun 10, 2011)

Singapore_Blue1 said:


> Listen....Clean the water dish out...Then add fresh luke warm water to it. Next get a cue tip and get that white gunk out of her mouth parts. Thats why she is not eating man...I would have the rest of the container pretty dry other than the water dish.


The water dish is clean, that pic was old, I simply put it up to display how she huddles near her dish. I've cleaned her mouth many times and she still doesn't eat, the white crusties come back a day or two later and the water I give her is room temp.


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## Singapore_Blue1 (Jun 11, 2011)

Ixithel said:


> The water dish is clean, that pic was old, I simply put it up to display how she huddles near her dish. I've cleaned her mouth many times and she still doesn't eat, the white crusties come back a day or two later and the water I give her is room temp.


It is a fungus...Your going to need to find something to apply that isn't harmful to her but will kill the fungus..Let me think it over and I will come up with an idea for you. She will most likely die if you don't kill the fungus


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## Ixithel (Jun 12, 2011)

*Good news*

My science teacher got back to me today and informed me that she could not as she was on maternity leave, however another science teacher of that school would be happy to let me borrow a microscope.

*What are things I should look for? Does anyone have a link to a picture of nematodes under a scope?*

Also as Meecht suggested I messaged one of the members of that institute and though it is no longer around, that member is going to try and assist me with her condition. I'll keep you guys updated. Melly as of right now is leaning on her dish like usual.


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## demonanjel117 (Jun 12, 2011)

I saw this and I got kinda nauseous for a bit. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYF40l88nP8

and this. http://atshq.org/boards/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=18272


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## Ixithel (Jun 12, 2011)

demonanjel117 said:


> I saw this and I got kinda nauseous for a bit. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYF40l88nP8
> 
> and this. http://atshq.org/boards/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=18272


Well damn *reading post* how am I supposed to get her on her back? O.O not even possible for this T


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## Meecht (Jun 12, 2011)

The common factor with nematodes seems to be a visibly writhing mass around the mouth of the T.  From what you've described and taken pictures of this doesn't seem to be the case for your situation as the discharge dries.

You said you took a sample and placed a few drops of water on it with no reaction.  Did you ever fully submerge or dissolve any of the dried discharge to see if anything came out?

As for getting her on her back, you might be able to anesthetize her?  I am by no means even remotely an expert on that, so I'd leave any explanation on that to somebody else.


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## PhobeToPhile (Jun 12, 2011)

For fungus, one of the dyes, either a blue or a pruple one, will work. The purple is genetian violet, but I forget the name of the blue dye. And by either, I mean "one of these". Don't remember which off the top of my head.


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## Ixithel (Jun 12, 2011)

*Meecht*- I have submerged a lump under water and saw nothing. The water simply got cloudy. I wouldn't know how to get her on her back either but if I took a clump from her mouth, placed it on some water and put it on a glass slide then maybe i'll be able to spot something..

*PhobeToPhile*- Dyes? I am confused..


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## demonanjel117 (Jun 13, 2011)

Ixithel said:


> *Meecht*- I have submerged a lump under water and saw nothing. The water simply got cloudy. I wouldn't know how to get her on her back either but if I took a clump from her mouth, placed it on some water and put it on a glass slide then maybe i'll be able to spot something..
> 
> *PhobeToPhile*- Dyes? I am confused..


Yeah I think if you just get some on a slide youd be able to see what it is without having to turn your baby on her back. If possible you should take pictures of what the microscope shows.


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## wesker12 (Jun 13, 2011)

try using a dropper of methylene blue dye on the white substance, if it changes color then its a fungus. If you dont have any i suppose i can ship you some if i look around my house for it.


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## Jacobchinarian (Jun 13, 2011)

Has anyone considered an antiseptic like zinc powder. The tarantula cannot eat it like a liquid but I think it will kill whatever the white stuff is. People use it for athletes foot and it can be bought on eBay or maybe even CVS.


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## Meecht (Jun 13, 2011)

wesker12 said:


> try using a dropper of methylene blue dye on the white substance, if it changes color then its a fungus. If you dont have any i suppose i can ship you some if i look around my house for it.


If it were a fungus, wouldn't it have spread outside the initial area by now?


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## Ixithel (Jun 15, 2011)

*demonanjel117-* haha I don't think I could get pictures...these will be school microscopes. She hasn't got back to me yet of course. As for Melly I checked her again and it's like the white stuff forms into a hard ball at the base of her mouth. VERY strange.

*wesker12- * hmmm I wonder if my school has some.


*Jacobchinarian* I'm afraid to use anything on her that might end up killing her.


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## Ixithel (Jun 16, 2011)

*Microscopic update*

*What did I say? It's not nematodes*

I took about four slides, all pooling water at her mouth parts near the white and sucking up the water to dip them on the slides all at different times. What I found were not worms, instead little creatures that resembled mites. I saw eggs and about 3 different moving ones.

It would kind of make sense since she's always near her water dish, the mites are attracted to moisture correct?

I am going to clean her entire enclosure right now and give her new substrate and a much smaller water dish.


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## demonanjel117 (Jun 16, 2011)

Oh damn! So now how to get rid of em? I wonder what kind they are.


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## Meecht (Jun 16, 2011)

Mites are causing that?  

People say that the water dish is more of a precautionary measure and source of small amounts of humidity.  Would it be OK to remove the dish completely for a few days in hopes of drying the mites out?  Is it possible that she's sticking close to the water dish because the mites are actually leeching the moisture out of her?


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## Hobo (Jun 16, 2011)

Nobody said they were mites.
It would be helpful if you could take a sample to an acarologist (if you can fin one) to be sure though. Try a university or something.

I don't _think_ taking the water dish away, or making it smaller would help. That would depend on why she is at the water dish in the first place. Is she there because she wants to get hydrated, or have the parasites somehow compelled her to go there since they need water...
I doubt you could dry out things enough so that the parasites inside her (I'm assuming that's where they are coming from) would dessicate.

If it were me, I'd clean her mouth out, and rehouse her with all new, sterile materials/sub/whatever. Replace the water dish instead of cleaning it (drink lots of bottled drinks!). Clean her mouth and rehouse again when or if they come back.


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## Ixithel (Jun 17, 2011)

They looked like mites. Mite or not it's something alive inside of her thats laying eggs. But nematodes, no. Something parasitic and obviously affecting her badly.

Tomorrow i'm going to clean her mouth out, she's had enough tonight though I flushed her mouth pretty good while I was at the school. Maybe I should get rid of the dish completely and just syringe hydrate her for a bit?

---------- Post added at 11:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:50 PM ----------

Im removing her water dish, she has stopped drinking it seems and all she does is dip her feet into it and leans on it.


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## PhobeToPhile (Jun 17, 2011)

Ixithel said:


> They looked like mites. Mite or not it's something alive inside of her thats laying eggs. But nematodes, no. Something parasitic and obviously affecting her badly.
> 
> Tomorrow i'm going to clean her mouth out, she's had enough tonight though I flushed her mouth pretty good while I was at the school. Maybe I should get rid of the dish completely and just syringe hydrate her for a bit?
> 
> ...


Is there a wax or something you can put on the spot to deny them oxygen?


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## Ixithel (Jun 17, 2011)

PhobeToPhile said:


> Is there a wax or something you can put on the spot to deny them oxygen?


Wax on the spot to deny them oxygen? The parasites? I'm not sure how I could even accomplish that. I might try putting her in a watery ICU like so

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cL6Or-TGUdE

and see if that helps her any. But doing that might encourage whatever mite-like thing thats inside of her to reproduce more....I'm not sure what to do


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## astraldisaster (Jun 17, 2011)

Whatever the parasites are, could they perhaps be killed by 38ºC + temperatures, like nematodes? Maybe somebody more knowledgeable than me could weigh in on the subject. Of course, it's risky for the T as well, but it sounds to me like she's doomed if you can't get rid of the infestation.


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## Ixithel (Jun 17, 2011)

I;m not sure because if it IS some type of mite then I read they thrive in hotter temperatures


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## Verneph (Jun 17, 2011)

Ixithel said:


> I;m not sure because if it IS some type of mite then I read they thrive in hotter temperatures


I think it would depend heavily on the type of mite.  Of course, we don't have any idea if these things are mites at all.  Without knowing exactly what the parasites are, any real solutions are going to be almost impossible to find, let alone suggest.  I believe someone in an earlier post suggested taking the sample of the parasites you have to an expert and have them take a look.  That's probably your best bet at this point.


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## Ixithel (Jun 19, 2011)

*Update*

Well I was going to try the Watery ICU method but she didn't like it at all so what I did was took about 15-20 minutes to turn her over and deep clean her mouth. What I did was squirt water onto her mouth parts and use a Q-tip to swish around her mouth, around the white chalky area, around her fangs. She was very cooperative too as I was able to get under her fangs and between her palps. I'd then suck up the pooled water and rinse, repeat. At the end of the session I ran water over her mouth parts to rinse it off and then returned her to her enclosure with a clean, new water dish.


I actually SAW one of the bugs that live in her mouth so you can see them with your naked eye if you look hard enough. Teenie tiny white bug things around her mouth parts. I only really saw one though but I know there is more.







Her abdomen still looks the same and she's getting really sluggish. I'm going to repeat the mouth cleaning maybe...every other day? Or should I do it every day? What do you guys think? I don't want to stress her out but I'm not gonna let her die from dehydration/parasitic infection.


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## Hobo (Jun 19, 2011)

I would do that whenever it gets crusty, I guess.
I bet that whatever these things are, they are not only inside/on her, but most likely crawling all over the sub and ornaments of her cage. Cleaning her mouth then sticking her back in would just give the parasites a new, clean place to set up shop again, so perhaps provide new/sterilized sub, water dish and cage after every cleaning to at least prevent any of the sub crawlies from hopping aboard.

Unfortunately, I don't see how this can end well. If they are indeed inside her, I don't think there's any amount of cleaning or drying you could do to get rid of 'em, short of trying to use some kind of medication to kill them. And even then, we don't know how it will affect your spider, or even what the parasites are.

Like I said, get a sample to someone in the know, so you'll at least know what the heck they are, and might provide clues on how to deal with it next time if it ever crops up.

Good luck, though. Keep doing what you are doing. In the end, I don't think you can do much else.


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## Moonface (Jun 19, 2011)

Hobo said:


> Like I said, get a sample to someone in the know, so you'll at least know what the heck they are, and might provide clues on how to deal with it next time if it ever crops up.


Exactly. What if what you saw _were_ just regular mites and they're there due to necrotic tissue in/around her mouth? I don't think we can even be certain that they're what's causing the problems.

Were the mite-like things floating around in the goo, and if so, what did the actual chalky stuff look like under the microscope? Were you able to do a stain?

Regardless, I admire how much you care for Melly. I know people who don't even treat their dog or cat with such compassion... Best of luck with her.


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## Ixithel (Jun 19, 2011)

*Hobo*- I did a huge clean of house when I brought her home from checking her stuff under a microscope. Got her new everything, have a bunch of caps at the ready so I can dispose and a brand new bag of substrate.

I'm not sure I know where to go to bring her to identify these things. I mean, the science department of my highschool didn't really know but then again those are teachers. I'm super broke so I am unable to do anything costly for a while. Would any vets perhaps be able to identify these things? Or would I have to try and find a place more...exotic.

*Moonface* While I was cleaning her mouth there was a lot of old sub caught up in there. She was very cooperative once I started dripping water onto her though, stopped struggling and such. 

Under the microscope I observed lots of dirt, chunks from dead roach when I attempted to syringe feed her, occasional single celled things that looked like an oval with small circles in them, eggs I believe. And that exact same oval with legs and a head that looks very mite-ish to me. I couldn't get a CLEAR look cause the few I saw were stuck in dirt but thats what they looked like.

I was unable to do a stain, forgot completely.

The chalky stuff kind of blended in with the water and made a whitish looking milky liquid that didn't appear any different under the scope. Its just really hard and probably goes deep into her body. Whatever it is i'm unable to remove it, it's hard like chalk and I don't want to cause her discomfort by prodding around and stabbing at her mouth too much.

And thanks so much, that means a lot to me. She's my little girl and I will try everything I can think of to save her!


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## Hobo (Jun 19, 2011)

I don't think a highschool science department will be able to help you out.
The vet thing may work, if you can find one that will see a spider! It'd cost you though...

Try a university, perhaps UW.
Find and email an acarologist, or at least someone roughly within that field who's done some relavent work or has some interest. See if they can take a look for you, or at the very least, point you in the direction of someone who will.


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## Ixithel (Jun 19, 2011)

*So I woke up this morning*

And ACTUALLY saw her over her water dish like she was drinking, She turns around and I look at her abdomen and it's not NEARLY as shriveled as it was. It's still small, but it no longer looks like someone pinched it down. I am extremely excited by this and will be offering her a roach. Later tonight I am going to repeat what I did last night with her mouth. Hopefully this is the beginning of a speedy recovery for Melly


Edit: She nearly not the roach, it was the first time I ever really seen her fangs OUT. I left it in with her for the time being.

I did another session of cleaning her mouth and i took a needle this time to poke and scrape at that white lump. It eventually came free and i rinsed and repeated. Then she actually for the first time freaked out so I put her down and finished rinsing her mouth while she was chilling there. She has a LOT more sass now, just like how she was when I got her. It was a pain getting her back IN the enclosure and when I did she hurried into her hide so I put her away in the dark to give her some alone time.

I seemed to have found lots of substrate each time I cleaned...I feel like perhaps maybe there was old substrate stuck in her mouthparts, maybe thats where the bugs came from to chill on the rotty substrate? Her mouth looks very clean now but I will continue to clean her face until she starts eating or the white goes away completely. All I know is I can tell she's starting to get better and that makes me ecstatic!

Cleaned mouth






Fuller abdomen and no longer a hunched mess.


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## Ixithel (Jul 1, 2011)

*Assorted G. Rosea issues once again.*

Hello, some of you may recognize me as the girl who has the T with a so far unknown....err, MEDICAL issue. Her name is Melly and she's a G. rosea.

Just for a quick refreshment: She had white in her mouth, I took a sample to a microscope and found not nematodes, but mite-like bugs living in her mouth if not inside her. I have had her for about 4 months, got her from petco and predict she was wild caught. In my care I had never seen her eat, drink and she was dangerously skinny. During this discovery I sanitized her entire enclosure and gave her new everything. I switch her water bowls regularly and keep her a good distance from my others.

You can view pictures and debates on the issue in this thread (But make sure you read all of it before you jump to conclusions)-- http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=209237

What I did was pinch grab her and get a syringe, soaking her mouth parts under the water and using a Q-tip to swish it around before sucking the liquid back up and disposing of it. I would do this for about 10-15 minutes. I would also take the back end of the needle to the white clump and chip it out. Some may not agree with this method but as you can see there is a great difference in her abdomen size

Before- 







After-






I was able to get her to drink, Her abdomen filled in and she has regained some pressure in her body so she is no longer a curled mess however, she is not better yet. There is still work to be done.


As of the night before last I introduced a roach to her and she wouldn't take until i severed the head. Now she has finally latched onto the food but has had it in her mouth for over a day now and it has yet to liquefy. I'm not sure what to do at this point as she might be having trouble. I hear the crunches but I do not see the roach deteriorating. 

She's also having trouble standing upright. I'm not sure of her age, it might be an old age thing. But sometimes she'll stand there and then if I move her enclosure she'll lose balance and face plant or plant which ever way she moves. This rarely happens though so maybe someone can explain it to me. DKS, I highly doubt. Everything about her movement is correct.

Nematodes, impossible. I checked so please don't even suggest.
Also, she is not a mature male. She has not molted in my care but i'm sure I saw the furrow. If i'm incorrect and she IS male, then she's definitely NOT mature.

Thank you


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## DannyH (Jul 1, 2011)

The bugs are probobly living inside her if they are coming out of her mouth. I'm sorry, but I don't think she has much of a chance.


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## Eagercannibals (Jul 1, 2011)

That is really unfortunate. I tend to stay clear of purchasing animals from Petco now. A few months ago my boyfriend purchased a few mice from there with the intentions of breeding them (he owns an assortment of snakes). The mice appeared fine, no signs of any infections or discharge, droppings were normal and they were active; then suddenly just started dropping dead with no obvious issues. Not only did those mice from Petco die, but the whole community died within a week. We are still unsure what it was exactly, but it definitely was contagious.


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## Ixithel (Jul 1, 2011)

DannyH said:


> The bugs are probobly living inside her if they are coming out of her mouth. I'm sorry, but I don't think she has much of a chance.


Well, i'm not giving up on her.

---------- Post added at 12:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:22 PM ----------




Eagercannibals said:


> That is really unfortunate. I tend to stay clear of purchasing animals from Petco now. A few months ago my boyfriend purchased a few mice from there with the intentions of breeding them (he owns an assortment of snakes). The mice appeared fine, no signs of any infections or discharge, droppings were normal and they were active; then suddenly just started dropping dead with no obvious issues. Not only did those mice from Petco die, but the whole community died within a week. We are still unsure what it was exactly, but it definitely was contagious.


Petco is horrible. I'm afraid to even buy food from there. I keep roaches but I was tempted to buy some super worms to see if Melly could chew down on one of those easier but i'm not too sure because who knows what could be wrong with them


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## Eagercannibals (Jul 1, 2011)

I myself also have a rose hair, I've had her for 2 years now. For a year she didn't molt and when she did there was some injury to her abdomen due to her old age. I was concerned she wouldn't make it, but her injuries healed and merely scarred. By the looks of her you would think she wouldn't be okay but she is really active and constantly covering her enclosure with webs. From the pictures, there is definitely an improvement. I certainly wouldn't give up on her just yet, but if I were you I would be less attentive to her and just let her do her thing. Even though rose hairs are extremely hardy tarantulas people tend to not realize how sensitive they are or how easy it is to stress them out and less stress is always a good thing. Do you still see white discharge from her mouth? or any of those bugs?

---------- Post added at 03:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:48 PM ----------

Did you try giving her crickets? and Rose hairs can go awhile without eating. Mine wont eat for months at a time and when she does, she eats 2. So don't worry about her not eating

---------- Post added at 03:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:49 PM ----------

Also, I'm completely new to this forum. So please bear with me on not knowing how to quote lol


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## Ixithel (Jul 1, 2011)

Eagercannibals said:


> I myself also have a rose hair, I've had her for 2 years now. For a year she didn't molt and when she did there was some injury to her abdomen due to her old age. I was concerned she wouldn't make it, but her injuries healed and merely scarred. By the looks of her you would think she wouldn't be okay but she is really active and constantly covering her enclosure with webs. From the pictures, there is definitely an improvement. I certainly wouldn't give up on her just yet, but if I were you I would be less attentive to her and just let her do her thing. Even though rose hairs are extremely hardy tarantulas people tend to not realize how sensitive they are or how easy it is to stress them out and less stress is always a good thing. Do you still see white discharge from her mouth? or any of those bugs?
> 
> ---------- Post added at 03:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:48 PM ----------
> 
> ...


Thats good to know. I keep thinking she's a fragile lil thing but she's held up for this long and seems to be improving. I'll probably leave the roach in her mouth until it starts rotting...then I might pull it.


She still has the white I think. Each session it seems to come back. It's not liquid it's like a cement ball and that alone under the scope didn't have anything in it. I saw a bug with my naked eye the first or second time I cleaned her since viewing under a scope and haven't seen anything since.

I offered her crickets in the past, but she wouldn't take them.


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## Verneph (Jul 1, 2011)

I remember your earlier topic about Melly.  Glad to see she seems to be doing a bit better.

This is such an odd case.  Obviously cleaning out her mouth must have done something to stop the parasites if her abdomen improved as much as it seems to have.  I agree, though, that they are probably living inside of her as well.  If she's drinking now, I'm wondering if there's anything you could put in her water that will harm the parasites but not her?

Anyway, as for your current problems, let's start with the roach.  I'd suggest either:

A.  Giving her smaller food.  A small cricket, perhaps, and see if she can handle that.

B.  You could also try the widely discussed "cricket soup", or roach soup if you prefer.  Sounds like she's having trouble dissolving the food, so perhaps if you did that for her she'd be able to consume it.  

Her balance issues sound like lethargy, which can be caused by a huge slew of factors.  I'd put money on the fact she has been essentially starved because of these parasites for so long, but who knows?  Maybe she's just a clumsy spider?  :?

Hope this helps.  She's a beautiful T, and a lucky one to have an owner willing to fight so hard to help her.  :clap:


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## Eagercannibals (Jul 1, 2011)

Ixithel said:


> Thats good to know. I keep thinking she's a fragile lil thing but she's held up for this long and seems to be improving. I'll probably leave the roach in her mouth until it starts rotting...then I might pull it.
> 
> 
> She still has the white I think. Each session it seems to come back. It's not liquid it's like a cement ball and that alone under the scope didn't have anything in it. I saw a bug with my naked eye the first or second time I cleaned her since viewing under a scope and haven't seen anything since.
> ...


Its hard to tell what the bugs could be without me seeing them. The first time you saw them were there a lot of them? Like an infestation? Because if not, and there were only a few, the bugs being there might have been a  coincidence and not the root of the problem. And just because she didn't take the cricket, it doesn't mean she wouldn't eat it, or any insect for that matter. Like I said, my Rose hair (Morticia) constantly doesn't take food, but when she does she hunts it down until its in her mouth. If yours has lived this long, and seems to be improving those are good signs. But if she hasn't molted at all yet, its either because shes too weak to molt and her body wouldn't handle the stress or because she is very old, or both.


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## Ixithel (Jul 2, 2011)

*She dropped the roach*

Before I left work she seemed to give up and drop the roach. Coming home from work she's standing over it still. Tomorrow I may buy some super worms and see if thats easier. If not, how do I go about making a soup for her and how do I serve it to her? In a bottle cap?

*Verneph* It's difficult cause how can you harm a bug within a bug? I chopped the roach's head and that made her interested, she ignored the ones with the intact heads.

She is a strange lil girl, I wish I knew more. I think tomorrow I will offer her a worm and if she refuses then clean her mouth as I haven't for a few days for stress sake.

And thanks so much, you don't know how many people tell me to just stuff her in the freezer. x.x

*Eagercannibals* When I saw the bugs it was a couple in one slide and a few eggs in a couple others. It wasn't a lot but I know it could get to be a lot. I have a theory because I would always swab out dirt from her mouth that perhaps the bugs were attracted to the soggy, decaying substrate stuck in her face.

Too bad I got her from derpy petco that knew NOTHING about her when I asked. Stupid of me, but she was my first T and I wasn't thinking. I know better now.


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## vickywild (Jul 2, 2011)

It's heartwarming that you've stuck to this so well.

I hope this story has a happy ending.


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## Verneph (Jul 2, 2011)

Ixithel said:


> Before I left work she seemed to give up and drop the roach. Coming home from work she's standing over it still. Tomorrow I may buy some super worms and see if thats easier. If not, how do I go about making a soup for her and how do I serve it to her? In a bottle cap?
> 
> *Verneph* It's difficult cause how can you harm a bug within a bug? I chopped the roach's head and that made her interested, she ignored the ones with the intact heads.
> 
> ...


A bottle cap will work for the soup, or preferably something in similar size to her water dish.  Anything she'll be able to "drink" out of.  

I got really curious and did some research on various types of mites.  The closest things I was able to find were "Acarapis woodi", which is a mite only known to infect honey bees, or perhaps some very confused ear mites.  I did a few more specific searches and found absolutely nothing about mites infecting T's like this, which I think makes it even more apparent that you're dealing with something rather new in the hobby...  

Harming whatever they are is going to take finding something that will be able to pass through Melly's system without hurting her and still kill whatever's inside her.  There are a lot of different mite sprays on the market.  I suppose, and I'm just throwing this out there, you could get one of those, add a *very, very, VERY* small amount to her water and see if that helps.  That would be extremely risky though, since you'll have no way of knowing whether it'll even work or if it will kill Melly.  You could try putting some on a sample of that white stuff and see if it will work at all before you resort to that, or not do it at all as I cannot stress enough how risky it would be.  

Also, out of curiosity and I feel like someone already asked this but is she wild caught?


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## Ixithel (Jul 2, 2011)

*vickywild* Thank you so much 

*Verneph* I bought superworms today and if I cant get her to take do you think I should mash them? Do I add water?

Yeah I did research too and found nothing this is why i'm so baffled lol. SO far though she seems to be on a roll and it's not nematodes so I have faith in the lil girl.

I'd rather not do anything risky. I don't want to be responsible for her death x.x I'd be so upset.

I would bet my life that she's wild caught. Petco couldn't really tell me where she was from or answer any questions I asked meaning she could be infected with anything and could also be extremely old too


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## Eagercannibals (Jul 2, 2011)

Ixithel said:


> I would bet my life that she's wild caught. Petco couldn't really tell me where she was from or answer any questions I asked meaning she could be infected with anything and could also be extremely old too


They can never answer any questions, that is why it frustrates me so much to go in there. The people there do not care about what they are doing or take pride in their job one bit.


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## Verneph (Jul 2, 2011)

Ixithel said:


> *Verneph* I bought superworms today and if I cant get her to take do you think I should mash them? Do I add water?
> 
> Yeah I did research too and found nothing this is why i'm so baffled lol. SO far though she seems to be on a roll and it's not nematodes so I have faith in the lil girl.
> 
> ...


A little water would help, and yea mash them up. 

 I actually have G. Rosea from Petsmart myself.  She's an oddball, to say the least, but I think she's wild caught too.  Probably lucky she didn't have anything like this.  There's a lot of risk involved when getting T's from the wild.  

I don't blame you for not wanting to try the spray (I wouldn't do it myself, honestly).  It's more of a last resort option.


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## Ixithel (Jul 2, 2011)

She TRIED to take the worm but failed. So instead I cleaned her mouth and found some of the roach lodged in her mouth x.x a hard part of the shell stuck under her fangs. I removed it, swished, watered and put her back and all she wants to do is hide. So i'll try again tomorrow and if thats a fail i'll make her some soup. 

Now to see if my A. avic will finally eat..


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## Verneph (Jul 3, 2011)

Ixithel said:


> She TRIED to take the worm but failed. So instead I cleaned her mouth and found some of the roach lodged in her mouth x.x a hard part of the shell stuck under her fangs. I removed it, swished, watered and put her back and all she wants to do is hide. So i'll try again tomorrow and if thats a fail i'll make her some soup.
> 
> Now to see if my A. avic will finally eat..


Oh, you have an A. Avic too (hey, so do I!)?  Be careful about that.  How close are their containers?  You don't want your Avic at risk of contracting what Melly's got.  

From the sounds of it these "things" are keeping her from releasing her enzymes to eat her food.  Maybe they're blocking her throat?


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## Ixithel (Jul 3, 2011)

Verneph said:


> Oh, you have an A. Avic too (hey, so do I!)?  Be careful about that.  How close are their containers?  You don't want your Avic at risk of contracting what Melly's got.
> 
> From the sounds of it these "things" are keeping her from releasing her enzymes to eat her food.  Maybe they're blocking her throat?


Yeah I bought my avic from a different LPS about 3 months ago and he hasn't eaten at all since and i'm getting concerned.


I have a small collection of Ts, Melly is on the top shelf of my closet, my slings and b. smithi juv are in my nightstand (across the room) and my other adults/juvs are in the closet in the corner. So they are a good distance apart. I suppose I COULD put Melly on my computer desk but i'd have to move her in my closet anyway. (I have to hide my collection). She's been there and they have been there so i'm sure it's fine, also have a handy bottle of hand sanitizer and wash the tongs before I use them with anything else.

Yeah thats what I think. I'm not sure cause she can drink fine.


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## DannyH (Jul 3, 2011)

Ixithel said:


> Well, i'm not giving up on her.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 12:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:22 PM ----------
> 
> ...


Uhg, you can say that again! Someone at petco recommended a Cobalt Blue for a beginer! Good luck with Melly btw, she does have beautiful colors.


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## Ixithel (Jul 3, 2011)

*DannyH* Wow...I want an H. liv...I can just imagine someone buying one for their kid and well, you get the idea.  and thank you. She could use a molt though I wonder what she looks like freshly molted.




My A. Avic, Ares is being weird...I wonder if he drank. I saw a pool of liquid on his mouth and it was cloudy, looked like blood and his fangs were out so I thought maybe he tried to eat a roach and lost a fang? Nope. Fangs intact, watery stuff dripped on me and his mouth is still extremely wet and palps open. Never seen him do that, perhaps he ate...hmm.

I swear him and Melly, weirdest Ts ever.


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## Jenthevet (Jul 3, 2011)

Hi there.  I'm so sorry about all that is happening with Melly (I love her name, BTW).  I don't know if this could help or harm her but I wondered about using some herbals to help expel whatever is going on.  I don't know the mechanics of a tarantula's immune system but surely they must have some ability to fight things that attack them, and Melly is a case in point--she has yet to succumb to whatever is going on.  Since people gut load crickets before feeding them, there must be a benefit to the tarantula in doing so.  

I wondered is using some herbs to make a tea, then using that to swab her mouth as you have been doing, would help?  Or putting it into the cricket soup, perhaps.  I only work with herbs in mammals but maybe it could help?  I don't know if it would hurt, though.

Some things come to my mind:  Thyme can be use to expel parasites; Oregon grape and goldenseal are both potent antimicrobials when applied topically; licorice is anti-inflammatory and slightly akin to hydrocortisone; and astragalus and echinacea are immune supporting.  There are oodles of other herbs, of course, and I realize Ts are not omnivores, but these are some I use regularly in my practice.  

I have organic O. grape, goldenseal, astragalus, and licorice at my house and would be happy to send you some if you'd like to try them (not selling to you, just want to see Melly get well.      I can't vouch for their safety in a T, however.  

Take care and thanks for being such a good T guardian...many people would have given up on her by now.  

Jen


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## Ixithel (Jul 3, 2011)

*Jenthevet*- Thanks so much for your kind words.

I'm reluctant to try any of these, because I'm afraid they might have a negative effect on her. 




Update: The white stuff at the bottom of her mouth seems to perhaps BE blocking her throat. I saw her open her palps and there was more in her mouth. I'm confident I COULD dislodge it, but I'm at a loss how to keep her palps open.


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## Crysta (Jul 3, 2011)

Jenthevet said:


> Hi there.  I'm so sorry about all that is happening with Melly (I love her name, BTW).  I don't know if this could help or harm her but I wondered about using some herbals to help expel whatever is going on.  I don't know the mechanics of a tarantula's immune system but surely they must have some ability to fight things that attack them, and Melly is a case in point--she has yet to succumb to whatever is going on.  Since people gut load crickets before feeding them, there must be a benefit to the tarantula in doing so.
> 
> I wondered is using some herbs to make a tea, then using that to swab her mouth as you have been doing, would help?  Or putting it into the cricket soup, perhaps.  I only work with herbs in mammals but maybe it could help?  I don't know if it would hurt, though.
> 
> ...


It wouldn't work on t's as our mammalian blood/nervous system is not the same as an invertebrate. 
Anything that may dispel parasites might actually kill the tarantula. As flea medicine can kill them amongst other pesticides. Herbs such as Rosemary and bay leaf are a pest deterrent, and I am sure many more are as well, so I would be careful and not attempt these at all.


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## Ixithel (Jul 3, 2011)

I cleaned her mouth a bit, and made a gloppy festering brew of worm soup. SO gross I might add, the things I did to make it x.x oh well, anything for the princess.


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## lunashimmer (Jul 3, 2011)

Keep us posted, Ixithel. You are a fantastic person for doing all this. Good luck with sweet Melly!


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## Krissy K (Jul 4, 2011)

Ixi: How is Melly doin? I hope she's doing well. I haven't heard from you in a while! Course I havent been on skype in Lord only knows how long. Urggg I had an idea but I forgot!!! *jeopardy music plays*
OH! I was gonna make a comment about petsmart and petco. I made a post on Arachnophiles, a warning for them: http://arachnophiles.myfreeforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=9140
I don't like my local petsmart. they suck, they don't know anything about the animals. The "pamphlets" they have summing up care needed for their animals are horrible. It's full of lies, false and bad information. It amazes me that they "vet assure" their animals. But when you take them home and two days later they die, the workers don't care. You're just another sale, more money for the store and their wallet (paycheck) At least Pet Paradise (a local store, or semi-local, but not a chain in the least) while it may not smell the best, their animals are housed well and they have knowledgeable staff. And my LPS Animal Adventures, they are probably one of the best stores I know, and they certainly care about their animals. But this is not a pet store review thread so I will shut up now 
Sky, I hope Melly gets better, and that Ares eats!!! Text me with ANY update please!

---------- Post added at 08:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:38 PM ----------

Or just text me to say hihi


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## Ixithel (Jul 5, 2011)

Update: I made Melly worm soup and she wanted nothing to do with it LOL. I think it grossed her out just as much as it grossed me out. High class lil girl wasn't having any of my specially prepared gloop.

It seemed though she was trying her luck at the headless roach again. She's in her hide, not sure what she's doing but her abdomen isn't any larger so my bet is a fail. I might try and grab a cricket next time i'm near the LPS and see if that intrigues her more.


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## Verneph (Jul 5, 2011)

Ixithel said:


> Update: I made Melly worm soup and she wanted nothing to do with it LOL. I think it grossed her out just as much as it grossed me out. High class lil girl wasn't having any of my specially prepared gloop.
> 
> It seemed though she was trying her luck at the headless roach again. She's in her hide, not sure what she's doing but her abdomen isn't any larger so my bet is a fail. I might try and grab a cricket next time i'm near the LPS and see if that intrigues her more.


Ha, sorry the soup didn't work.  Some T's will only go for live food.  I'm starting to become concerned she literally can't consume her food with that blockage in her throat.  I'm not sure how you could go about safely removing that.


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## Ixithel (Jul 5, 2011)

I'm not sure, When I cleaned her mouth the last time I didn't even see the blockage so perhaps I got confused with the lighting.


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## Krissy K (Jul 5, 2011)

Yuck... worm soup. I hope she gets better D:


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## Ixithel (Jul 8, 2011)

This is even sadder then I thought

Melly used to be the kind of rosea that wouldn't even look at food. Now she literally grabs it and tries to get her fangs into it, but they slide right off. Even with the meal worms. It's almost like she forgot how to eat. I held the prey item for her as her fangs slid off and slid off again the roach and meal worm but she didn't use enough force. I left the roach and worm in the enclosure with her and tomorrow I suppose i'll try crickets. Also, not sure if it's just me but she looks to be getting thin again.


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## Jenthevet (Jul 8, 2011)

Ixithel said:


> This is even sadder then I thought
> 
> Melly used to be the kind of rosea that wouldn't even look at food. Now she literally grabs it and tries to get her fangs into it, but they slide right off. Even with the meal worms. It's almost like she forgot how to eat. I held the prey item for her as her fangs slid off and slid off again the roach and meal worm but she didn't use enough force. I left the roach and worm in the enclosure with her and tomorrow I suppose i'll try crickets. Also, not sure if it's just me but she looks to be getting thin again.


UGH!  That is heartbreaking.  :'(  I can't think of much else so pitiful and sad.  Poor baby.  

If only we could stomach tube Ts.... 

Keep your chin up, Ixithel.  You have quite a following of supporters here.


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## wesker12 (Jul 8, 2011)

Drip cricket juice/soup via syringe directly in her chelicerae? would that be an option?


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## Ixithel (Jul 8, 2011)

Thank you all for your opinions and support.

*wesker12* I'll have to try that again, last time I did it all that happened was her mouth got all gross but then again she wasn't eager to feed like she is now.

---------- Post added at 06:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:58 PM ----------

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=196211&highlight=soup


^ this is pretty much what is happening though shes a lot more hesitant and gentle with her feeding attempts.


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## DannyH (Jul 9, 2011)

Ixithel said:


> Thank you all for your opinions and support.
> 
> *wesker12* I'll have to try that again, last time I did it all that happened was her mouth got all gross but then again she wasn't eager to feed like she is now.
> 
> ...


In the comments to the youtube video that the person with the question posted, it seems the tarantula was able to eat after a molt, maybe her fangs could be broken?


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## wesker12 (Jul 10, 2011)

Ixithel said:


> Thank you all for your opinions and support.
> 
> *wesker12* I'll have to try that again, last time I did it all that happened was her mouth got all gross but then again she wasn't eager to feed like she is now.
> 
> ...


Yeah I remember reading about a blondi which had literally no fangs (didnt make it through molt intact) being sucessfully fed that way. Is there anything roseas particularily like? Like my versi goes insane for moths (had some silkworms)

---------- Post added at 02:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:27 AM ----------




Ixithel said:


> Thank you all for your opinions and support.
> 
> *wesker12* I'll have to try that again, last time I did it all that happened was her mouth got all gross but then again she wasn't eager to feed like she is now.
> 
> ...


Yeah I remember reading about a blondi which had literally no fangs (didnt make it through molt intact) being sucessfully fed that way. Is there anything roseas particularily like? Like my versi goes insane for moths (had some silkworms)


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## Ixithel (Jul 14, 2011)

I purchased some crickets. She REALLY wants to eat, she grabs with a lot more...err, eagerness. But she can't. So I made crix/roach soup and she hovered over that before a stray cricket hopped by. She caught it, but she's not eating!


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## BobGrill (Jul 14, 2011)

Those really look lime nematodes. Yes they can and will spread to your other Ts.


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## LV-426 (Jul 14, 2011)

maybe its time to put her out to pasture if you catch my drift


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## BobGrill (Jul 14, 2011)

There's really nothing you can do for her. I'm being blunt and straight foward. I understand it's difficult, but think about the animal at least.


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## LV-426 (Jul 14, 2011)

i had to put down a P. ornata sling that got stuck in a molt. it sucks but you can always get another T. dont get too emotionally attached


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## vickywild (Jul 14, 2011)

LV-426 said:


> i had to put down a P. ornata sling that got stuck in a molt. it sucks but you can always get another T. *dont get too emotionally attached*


Thats an impossibility though. If you're looking after something every solid day for years, of course it's going to become a part of you.


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## BobGrill (Jul 14, 2011)

What he means is just do what you gotta do.


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## LV-426 (Jul 14, 2011)

vickywild said:


> Thats an impossibility though. If you're looking after something every solid day for years, of course it's going to become a part of you.


after all those years do you think that any T really give a rats butt about its owner?


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## BobGrill (Jul 14, 2011)

Some people apparently think so. There was a ridiculous debate a while back here about Ts "playing" with toys in their enclosures and stuff like that. Best not to bring that one back.


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## vickywild (Jul 14, 2011)

LV-426 said:


> after all those years do you think that any T really give a rats butt about its owner?


That's a ridicolous attempt at an argument. We, as humans, are able to feel compassion and love for other creatures. Tarantulas are not.


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## takelondon (Jul 14, 2011)

vickywild said:


> That's a ridicolous attempt at an argument. We, as humans, are able to feel compassion and love for other creatures. Tarantulas are not.


This is exactly it. Regardless of how little Ts care that we exist, a lot of people form an emotional attachment to their tarantulas. That was the point that was being made, not that Ts grow attached to their owners.


Kendra


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## LV-426 (Jul 14, 2011)

takelondon said:


> This is exactly it. Regardless of how little Ts care that we exist, a lot of people form an emotional attachment to their tarantulas. That was the point that was being made, not that Ts grow attached to their owners.
> 
> well that sounds like a personal problem. i felt bad when my P. ornata sling was stuck molting, but what are you gonna do? I put it in the freezer and moved on. Im not cry over it, better to do it in than to watch it wither and die.
> 
> ...


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## vickywild (Jul 14, 2011)

Nobody said that it was necassery to cause suffering to a tarantula and not put it down. 

The original poster has already said that she would rather stick by her T and try and help it through what it's going through. Which I, personally, totally admire her for. T's pull through the most horrific situations. Even taking this case alone, look at how much fatter Mellys abdoman is since the beginning of the thread! 

For myself, my spiders are my pets. Just because they cannot show me affection like a dog, cat or rabbit could, I would never dream of loving them any less. I care for them like I'd care for anything. I'm NOT saying that you don't, by the way. I'm sure you love your T's too. I just think, for the poster of this thread, putting melly down isn't an option. Or at least it wasn't an option before.


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## takelondon (Jul 14, 2011)

LV-426 said:


> takelondon said:
> 
> 
> > This is exactly it. Regardless of how little Ts care that we exist, a lot of people form an emotional attachment to their tarantulas. That was the point that was being made, not that Ts grow attached to their owners.
> ...


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## Verneph (Jul 14, 2011)

I'm pretty sure Ixithel has already stated, more than once, that putting Melly down is not an option.  I don't care whether or not you all want to believe that T's can't show emotion and shouldn't be appreciated like other pets.  Ixithel obviously cares quite a bit about Melly, and she has every right to do everything she can to help her get better.  Good for her I say!  :clap:

Maybe a lot of you would've given up on Melly by know, but maybe some people in this world actually believe in fighting for the life of another regardless of how small that life may be.  I don't ask that you agree, but just respect what Ixithel is trying to do here and stop arguing over petty details about the brain functions of T's.  If she wants to try and save Melly and is willing to put in the effort to do so, then that's her choice, not yours.  

Okay, so back on topic now:  She's still not eating?  I still think something is blocking her throat, or perhaps that white stuff is also sitting in her stomach?  I don't know.  This is such a weird case.  At least she's trying to eat.  That says a lot considering where she was before.

Reactions: Like 1


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## BobGrill (Jul 14, 2011)

It's not giving up, it's just being humane.


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## Verneph (Jul 14, 2011)

BobGrill said:


> It's not giving up, it's just being humane.


I've heard of a lot of terrible things done because it was "humane".  Melly's shown improvement.  She's obviously not done fighting just yet.


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## LV-426 (Jul 14, 2011)

takelondon said:


> LV-426 said:
> 
> 
> > No need to be a jerk about it. And no, forming emotional attachments is certainly not a "personal problem".
> ...


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## takelondon (Jul 14, 2011)

LV-426 said:


> takelondon said:
> 
> 
> > do you feel antagonzied? i live in realityville, and reality is yes Ts are cool and i love mine, but when your fighting a losing battle you cut your losses. if the OP wants to suffer with his/her suffering tarantula go for it. Maybe the OP should have inspected Melly before he/she bought it and then maybe we wouldnt be in this dicussion. Its the human putting in the emotional investment not the tarantula. when Melly dies the OP will probably go out and get another one. i have been called everthing under the sun so your little ankle biting aint gonna stop me.
> ...


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## vickywild (Jul 14, 2011)

LV-426 said:


> takelondon said:
> 
> 
> > do you feel antagonzied? i live in realityville, and reality is yes Ts are cool and i love mine, but when your fighting a losing battle you cut your losses. if the OP wants to suffer with his/her suffering tarantula go for it. Maybe the OP should have inspected Melly before he/she bought it and then maybe we wouldnt be in this dicussion. Its the human putting in the emotional investment not the tarantula. when Melly dies the OP will probably go out and get another one. i have been called everthing under the sun so your little ankle biting aint gonna stop me.
> ...


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## Jenthevet (Jul 14, 2011)

*Moonface* While I was cleaning her mouth there was a lot of old sub caught up in there. She was very cooperative once I started dripping water onto her though, stopped struggling and such. 

Under the microscope I observed lots of dirt, chunks from dead roach when I attempted to syringe feed her, occasional single celled things that looked like an oval with small circles in them, eggs I believe. And that exact same oval with legs and a head that looks very mite-ish to me. I couldn't get a CLEAR look cause the few I saw were stuck in dirt but thats what they looked like.

Hey Ix,

The single-celled ovals you saw with circles in them do indeed sound like eggs, especially because you saw similar items that had a head and legs on them.  You are not seeing pupa or larva so perhaps you are seeing adult creatures and their offspring...the beginning and end of a life cycle and you are successfully stopping the eggs from pupating.

I know Melly is a T but FWIW....ear mites in felines can successfully be treated by doing what you are doing...removing the crud, eggs, and any adults regularly and eventually disrupting their life cycle; all this in lieu of drugs.  It takes time and in Melly's case, she has likely been ill for much longer than you have had her, so it may take just as much time for her to heal.  Hopefully tending to her mouth and the rest of her body as often as you are doing will help dislodge any eggs and immature stages that are lingering.  Reminds me of fleas....you can remove what you can see but there's always some immature stage lurking where you can't reach.  It simply takes time and effort, both of which you have to the benefit of Miss Melly.  

Super excited to hear that she got some 'tude back!  Looking forward to more positive news.


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## LV-426 (Jul 14, 2011)

vickywild said:


> LV-426 said:
> 
> 
> > Why do you own Ts? Just curious? Are they like Pokemon cards to you? I tried to stick up for you in my last post but no, you've just proven to be a bit of an idiot.
> ...


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## Ixithel (Jul 14, 2011)

As in my earlier posts I viewed a sample of the mouth crap under a microscope. It's not.

I am NOT going to put Melly down until every option has been attempted and it appears she is a lost cause. Robc was willing to put Zilla down if she was suffering and I am willing to do that for Melly. Would you think HE was ridiculous for getting so emotional when she died? Not me, I admire him as I believe he treats his ts like they deserve to be treated.

He stuck by her to the end and he did get emotionally attached. I am attached to Melly, obviously. MY collection isn't a bunch of disposable specimens they are pets and as with any animal they all deserve a chance to live. This hasn't been the first time someone advised me to put her down and it's beyond me how anyone could jump the gun before attempting to save their pet. REGARDLESS. Advice has been given and I am not going to sit here and debate about emotions.


*Verneph* She's trying! It's her fangs that aren't working. It's in her mouth, the cricket but her fangs aren't coming out much like this user in this video had problems with
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3eCNetJJP4

I'm going to shank the cricket and give it back to her, maybe she'll be able to slurp that way. She's more interested in live food anyway.

*LV-426* It's true I wished I would have inspected her before I bought her. But I didn't know better. What I do know is that she IS improving so at least I have that much to go off of. Not to mention any hobbyists that might come along and have a similar problem might see this and be able to help their Tarantula...if she DOES pass, I will be greatly saddened and will not purchase another one for a while. Not because I have a few more little ones that can grow up and fill the G. rosea void. But they aren't her. They will never have her little personality.

*Jenthevet*
Overall her mouth looks better too. The while stuff comes out in a small strip of...the consistency of dried paint and all is done. I still rinse her mouth out though and i'm trying to focus on getting her to eat so she gets fat and happy!


NOW I hope we are all done bickering about this, i'm trying to save my T and negative opinions from fellow hobbyists isn't going to save my little girl. I would soon sell my whole collection before I got rid of her.


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## LV-426 (Jul 14, 2011)

no hard feelings, i really hope it pulls thru for your sake and Melly's. just do what you think is right


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## Verneph (Jul 14, 2011)

Maybe the white stuff is also blocking how her fangs are operating?  When was the last time she molted?  Has she ever molted in your care?


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## Ixithel (Jul 14, 2011)

*LV-426* Thank you

*Verneph* I guess after work tonight i'll do another detailed poke around her mouth. She has never molted in my care, she probably needs one though.


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## Verneph (Jul 14, 2011)

The owner of the T in the video you linked says that his/her T regained its feeding ability after it molted again.  Maybe that'll help Melly.  Of course, the typical method for speeding up the molting process is to feed the T more, which is kind of the issue here... :wall:


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## BobGrill (Jul 15, 2011)

Ixithel said:


> She's still the same. Always hovering around her water dish.
> Today I pulled her out to see if I could get her to eat. Of course she wouldn't, typical. So I pinch grabbed her to check on her white stuff situation.
> I'm not sure what it is, but the white stuff is HARD. Like really hard. Crusted, impossible to break with my tweezers or pull out (not that I wanted to be yanking at my T's mouth anyway) so I drabbled water on it, removed the chunk (which came out with some sub that was stuck in her mouthparts) and took a sample of the crud in her mouth. I placed it on my white counter and went at it with a magnifying glass (hey, what else can I do. I don't have a microscope so it doesn't hurt to try) and I saw nothing movin around. The water on the counter appeared cloudy and a slight brownish tint to it)
> 
> ...


Seems like nematodes from what I've seen and heard. And it seems to me that generally people who own a lot of Ts tend to think of them as just disposable and expendable creatures. If one dies they just go out and buy another dozen. I think if you buy them one at a time you get to enjoy each individual more. Many owners who own 50 + Ts or more, tend to become unappreciative of what they aready have, and feel the need to buy more and more. People like this are never satisfied and always need more Ts.


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## Meecht (Jul 15, 2011)

BobGrill said:


> Seems like nematodes from what I've seen and heard. And it seems to me that generally people who own a lot of Ts tend to think of them as just disposable and expendable creatures. If one dies they just go out and buy another dozen. I think if you buy them one at a time you get to enjoy each individual more. Many owners who own 50 + Ts or more, tend to become unappreciative of what they aready have, and feel the need to buy more and more. People like this are never satisfied and always need more Ts.


I don't think people with a lot of Ts are unappreciative of what they have, but the fact that the more animals you keep the more likely you are to encounter a death or illness.  It can be depressing to provide extra amounts of care on a sick animal only to see it die within a few weeks despite all the attention to gave it, then have to deal with another animal who begins to exhibit similar symptoms.  

Unfortunately, animals can't talk to let us know what's wrong with them (I think an OBT would just say "I WILL EAT YOUR SOUL," anyway) so we go by visible symptoms and just think "oh, this one is acting the same way as the one that died, so it will probably die, too."

For the lack of a better term, you kind of become desensitized to the illness of a single pet when you tend to keep a lot.  The whole process of denial, admittance, mourning, and acceptance just happens faster.

My apologies to Ixithel for contributing to the derailing of her thread.  I admire her dedication to keeping Melly alive.


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## Ixithel (Jul 16, 2011)

*Verneph* Yeah she didn't touch the other batch of soup i made for her. I left a free roaming cricket in her mouth. I wonder if I dripped some gutty mixture onto her mouth parts if she could take it that way.

*BobGrill* If you read my previous posts I used a microscope to identify her mouth issue. It wasn't nematodes, its was something else. A sort of mite perhaps, but then again I wouldn't be able to find that out. She has improved a ton since then and the white hardly shows up anymore and when it does it comes out easily with the consistency of peeling paint.

*Meecht* Thank you for your support 



It appears she took a poo :clap: Silly girl...in any case I'm going to clean out her enclosure again tomorrow. As of today I am going to transfer her into a smaller container as a temporary and soak her plants and hide and hopefully that will help shake off whatever bug may be still lurking about.


---------- Post added at 10:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:09 PM ----------

Cleaning her enclosure I decided to be gross and inspect her poo. Now i'm not sure if this is normal but...it smelled. Bad. I'm not sure how to describe it, but it made me gag. Not that I go around smelling everyone's poo  but my avic's didn't have a smell to it. I think this has to do with what may be going on inside her. Regardless she got it out. I took a few pics if anyone is interested (blergh)


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## wesker12 (Jul 16, 2011)

hmm have you tried slicing the cricket in half vertically and giving it to her? she might just suck out the innards? my slings love doing that to the mealworms i cut in half  (like they out thier mouthpart on the sliced part of the mealworm and suck out mealworm juice! good luck and dude you deserve my utter respect for trying as hard as you are! Inspirational homie


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## Silberrücken (Jul 16, 2011)

BobGrill said:


> People like this are never satisfied and always need more Ts.


*I seem to recall someone who was not satisfied with his ONE Avic because it would not eat... It was "determined" a male and then that someone wanted it to DIE so the cage could be used for something else!

People like THIS are NEVER satisfied with ANYthing.  * 

*----------------------------------------------*

*Ix, please ignore all negative comments, and continue trying to save your Melly. What you are doing is admirable, and shows how much you care for her. I hope she gets thru this!!!!  *


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## BobGrill (Jul 16, 2011)

Silberrücken said:


> *I seem to recall someone who was not satisfied with his ONE Avic because it would not eat... It was "determined" a male and then that someone wanted it to DIE so the cage could be used for something else!
> 
> People like THIS are NEVER satisfied with ANYthing.  *]


I'm just going to ignore that comment. I just feel that some pet collectors see collecting them as an addiction, and becoming addicted to anything, whether it's a drug or a hobby can be bad.


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## Ixithel (Jul 16, 2011)

*wesker12* I tried something similar with a roach, sliced off its head and pushed all the innards out. She seemed interested but left in favor for the hopping cricket that was loose in her enclosure. And thanks 


UPDATE: I'm going to move her back into her enclosure tomorrow. Today I had her out for mouth inspection and cleaning and you'd be amazed at how that white stuff is pretty much gone. I literally bathed her today, set her up on a towel and took a warm, wet paintbrush and went to town. Unnecessary maybe, but we'll see. After that and a good mouth swab I put her back in the deli. I'll repeat this one more time before I let her go back home. Then I will start trying other methods to help her feed. There is nothing blocking her throat, I got her to open her chelicerae and saw no white, nothing weird. Her fangs move and aren't stuck. Strange.


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## wesker12 (Jul 16, 2011)

I feel you! Keep fighting - My P. Irminia slings came dead on arrival  so  i have them in an ICU hoping for the best but they arent responsive ;(

hmm maybe you got rid of most of the whit stuff and its not coming back? thats a really good thing I believe!  good luck. Try feeding her again?


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## Ixithel (Jul 16, 2011)

*wesker12* Nooo x.x thats so sad. I lost two slings recently, C. darlingi and an A.versi. 

I have her in a deli with a cricket. At around this time tomorrow i will set her up in her enclosure but for now she'll be in the closet with the cricket lol. One thing that worries me, she must have some sort of infection cause the poo smelled bad and the lingering smell is on her.


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## wesker12 (Jul 16, 2011)

That reminds me - guess which one came alive and was super responsive/energetic - the A. versicolor, I was stunned because I expected the Irminias to be alive and the versi (maybe) to be dead. Its really cute though - I keep them in an almost permanent ICU untill they get older because they are fragile and it works!


are you sure it wasnt cricket poo? Crickets smell....! Does she drink? (My versi is gluping water like a pro chugger aahha)


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## Ixithel (Jul 16, 2011)

I should do that but my other versi seems to be doing fine at the moment. If it dies and my a. avic i'm not going to be doing Avics anymore. Can't maintain the humidity properly x.x

nah it was her poo cause it looked like T poo and she has that same smell on her only much fainter. Closer to her abdomen and not her mouth like I thought it would be. Thats why i'm cleaning her to try and get the gross out.

OH and yeah she drinks


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## wesker12 (Jul 16, 2011)

Both my irminias are officially dead - deathcurl 

Is the white crud back? Its really good that she drinks though! How is she now?


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## lunashimmer (Jul 16, 2011)

Ixithel said:


> *wesker12* One thing that worries me, she must have some sort of infection cause the poo smelled bad and the lingering smell is on her.


Do you think that the smelly poop was the result of the dead mites (or whatever they were) having made it through the digestion process and being eliminated...like they should because she's back to being almost healthy? I know when my dogs have eaten something they shouldn't have they have stinky (well, stinkier than normal!!!) poop.

(Sorry if this was too gross for some of you!)

Keep up the good work!  It sounds like >fingers crossed< Melly in on the mend! :clap:


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## Drakk (Jul 17, 2011)

Best wishes.


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## Ixithel (Jul 17, 2011)

*wesker12* Are you 100% positive? My darlingi curled and when I woke up he was on his back trying to molt...he didn't make it still I found his abdomen ruptured and he was smelly T.T

The white is hardly there. You wouldn't be able to see it and when it is, it's such a tiny amount that comes right out!

This whole ordeal has actually made her more friendly. When I first got her she was a complete brat and would always attack the paintbrush or tongs. Now you could literally have her sit on you and pet her for hours. She's still skinny but not as bad, pretty active and just HUNGRY! But she tries and tries and cannot eat the cricket!

*lunashimmer* Thats what I was kind of thinking cause it was really bad and it's not her web thats smelly. What ever it was is out of her now and I hope she poos more to flush her system out.

*Drakk* Thank you!


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## wesker12 (Jul 17, 2011)

Yeah they dont move - and were being blown away by the wind - got cooked on the way here
i hate this week - my tiger rump sling "lazy" is missing.....fml
hows your luck holding up? She moves around right? Melly isnt lethargic right?


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## Ixithel (Jul 17, 2011)

D: i'm sorry

The last time she was lethargic was back when I took her in to check under a microscope. After I cleaned her mouth out she drank and she's been a lot better since. She moves around a lot, webs and things.  moved her back into a clean enclosure today.


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## wesker12 (Jul 17, 2011)

Dude thats awesome - you saved her life! I know she'll be back 100% in no time! now hmm any progress on eating?
What t's do you have?


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## Kathy (Jul 17, 2011)

Such determination and love for that tarantula who would surely have been dead by now if you didn't take her.


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## lunashimmer (Jul 17, 2011)

Yay, Ixithel!  She is doing 100% better than when you started this thread!!!  I am so glad for you. You're going to be an expert on this kind of T illness!!


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## DannyH (Jul 17, 2011)

Ixithel said:


> D: i'm sorry
> 
> The last time she was lethargic was back when I took her in to check under a microscope. After I cleaned her mouth out she drank and she's been a lot better since. She moves around a lot, webs and things.  moved her back into a clean enclosure today.


omg, this just made my day! Very happy to hear Melly is doing better!


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## Ixithel (Jul 18, 2011)

xD don't celebrate yet guys, once she molts and gets fat then i'll be confident she's 100% better...then again she is HELLA better then before because surely she would have passed!

*wesker12* She is still unable to eat. This week since i have work off I am going to dedicate it to various soups/methods of feeding to help fatten her up. I wonder if she ignored the last soup only because there was a cricket hopping around her head.

I have 17 Ts, each listed on my profile


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## wesker12 (Jul 18, 2011)

Soups! Try dubia nymphs


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## Ixithel (Jul 18, 2011)

Dubia I find are the easiest since you can slice off a head and squeeze the innards out.


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## wesker12 (Jul 18, 2011)

Try it! Howd it go?


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## Ixithel (Jul 22, 2011)

The cricket died and started making the enclosure smell so i removed it and took her out. She was so lethargic that i could have probably played hot potato with her. Finally she came out of it and i cleaned her mouth and let her sit on my hand. Her lil claws were digging into my skin like she was holding on for life. Then I chopped a roach head, squeezed the insides into a watery bowl and placed her over it, even pushing her carapace gently down to get her mouth onto the mash.

Shes currently chilling like that on my floor...agh...Im getting so confused i'm running out of options. If this doesn't work and if i try to directly syringe feed her and it doesnt work...then i'm not sure what to do


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## Crysta (Jul 22, 2011)

okay in my opinion, you are bothering the tarantula too much.
Tarantulas arent to be handled or coddled so much. And after brushing her, which probably stressed her out lots, plus the added cricket distraction was probably not a good idea in itself.

I think you should just put her into her enclosure, and let nature take its course. 

it's hard, but right now with all the touching your making it worse for her.

also..the digging claws into your skin was actually the tarantula holding on for her life. she doesnt want to fall. 

Crysta


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## T Enthusiast (Jul 22, 2011)

Here's where I'm at with the above post. 

Ethically, I think handling tarantulas should be kept to a minimum. I think it is a necessary part of owning one (now i'm not saying someone should go try and pick up an OBT), especially just because one needs to feel confident in interacting with the spider if in fact situations do arise when they call for it, like this right here. But in general, it does nothing but stress the spider and pose a potential injury risk to all parties involved.

That being said, I believe that ultimately, while T's are animals to be treated with the utmost respect, I believe that Ixithel is only doing what he belevies is right, and in my opinion what any responsible pet owner would do. As pet owners, I believe it is our duty to ensure the saftey and well being of our animals. I'm not trying to attack you Crysta, I understand where you are coming from.

I just think he should be praised for doing everything he can to try and save the life of his spider. It's commendable.


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## Crysta (Jul 22, 2011)

T Enthusiast said:


> That being said, I believe that ultimately, while T's are animals to be treated with the utmost respect, I believe that Ixithel is only doing what he belevies is right, and in my opinion what any responsible pet owner would do. As pet owners, I believe it is our duty to ensure the saftey and well being of our animals. I'm not trying to attack you Crysta, I understand where you are coming from.
> 
> I just think he should be praised for doing everything he can to try and save the life of his spider. It's commendable.


Yes its commendable, however by reading his post, and looking that he tried to brush the spiders mouth out, then tried to feed him by pushing its thorax over some soup is just -abit- much. 
Spiders lived much longer then us, so it's just my opinion they should be left to their own devices for now. What the owner and you are perceiving as good duty, is not the same in the point of view of the spider but poking and bothering.


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## Verneph (Jul 22, 2011)

Crysta said:


> Yes its commendable, however by reading his post, and looking that he tried to brush the spiders mouth out, then tried to feed him by pushing its thorax over some soup is just -abit- much.
> Spiders lived much longer then us, so it's just my opinion they should be left to their own devices for now. What the owner and you are perceiving as good duty, is not the same in the point of view of the spider but poking and bothering.


In Ixithel's defense, she's in a bit of a desperate situation right now.  Had she not been "bothering" her T, Melly would probably be dead by now.  I see where you're coming from, and perhaps she's being, a tad, pushy with Melly but what else can she do?  Melly may not fully understand why she's being bothered, but Ixithel is trying to save her life.

Ixithel, if I were you, I'd try the syringe feeding and if that doesn't work you may have no choice but to wait it out until Melly's next molt.


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## Ixithel (Jul 22, 2011)

*cough* I'm a lady :0

As Verneph stated I am only doing this to save her life. Melly is the ONLY Tarantula in my collection that I handle and if she does get better I will treat her like my others and leave her be. 

I believe cleaning out her mouth and fangs frequently had a lot to do with her recovery.

Obviously not everyone is going to agree with what I am doing to help treat her. If you guys recall there has been users here (and in messages/different websites) stating I should just let her die.

The way I see it is I doubt this has been the first case of something like this and as long as Melly is alive or as long as she has this condition I hope this thread and what I am doing can be viewed by other enthusiasts in case they have a similar problem and perhaps they can take a shot of saving their T no matter what they might have to do.

*Crysta* Surprisingly, I do not bother Melly as much as it sounds like I do and I had only placed a finger gently on her thorax to get her mouth to touch the liquid as a way of introducing it to her. I check on her all the time but I only handle or touch her when I am doing a mouth cleanse.

I don't consider what ever may be happening inside her to be natural, I believe an infection or infestation is trying to cut her life short and I am doing everything I can to try and give her the best life a T can have in captivity. Many would have given up on her by now and it breaks my heart.

If you refer to the early posts when the thread started, her health was rapidly declining before I stepped in. Had I not she would have been dead by now as she was curling and couldn't drink, didn't move..

I also have my opinions on Melly being handled in particular but I'm not trying to debate. Just know I am not bothering her as much as necessary and when I do I am very patient and gentle with her. 

*T Enthusiast* Thank you  ...Hm..I wonder how one would even do something like this if the ill T was an OBT or a haplopelma...

*Verneph* I worry about her abdomen size...if she DOES manage to molt out safely wouldn't her abdomen be even smaller then it is right now? Given it's still pretty skinny compared to the rest of her I couldn't even imagine what a molt may do to it.


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## Amoeba (Jul 22, 2011)

Crysta said:


> I dont understand how you can say that, it doesn't really show the respect for your tarantulas, what makes her better then the male? They, and we are all equal lifeforms who deserve respect.


:? hm. This seems a bit hypocritical but who am I to judge....This was from another thread with a G rosea...

Without owner intervention Melly would be a freezer pet. So I tip my hat to anyone who tries to save an animal's life. Stress > Death. but this isn't a simple case of "OMG MY NEW TARANTULA HAS FLIPPED OVER ON IT'S BACK AND I THINK IT'S DEAD!!!" There aren't too many things that are natural in captivity and it's just human greed to want things to live longer from G roseas to Grandma.....I hope Melly lives out the rest of her life and goes to natural causes.  *Hippie Rant Over*


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## Verneph (Jul 22, 2011)

Ixithel said:


> *Verneph* I worry about her abdomen size...if she DOES manage to molt out safely wouldn't her abdomen be even smaller then it is right now? Given it's still pretty skinny compared to the rest of her I couldn't even imagine what a molt may do to it.


Well, the idea is that she'll actually be able to eat once she molts.  It's not like you can really stop her once the time comes.


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## Ixithel (Jul 23, 2011)

*FLAmoeba* I talked to jon3800 about Melly and he brought up the fact she might just be a really old female so I was prepared to let her go...that was until I took her to get a swab and view it under a microscope and discovered the thingies. I won't allow some pesky organism to rob Melly of her life, even if she was wild caught and was literally robbed a long time ago. Trying to make things better for her 

*Verneph* And when she DOES molt and her fangs repair I'm going to give her the biggest female roach in my bin!


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## Ixithel (Aug 6, 2011)

*Little update*

Melly isn't very smelly anymore though her eating handicapped has yet to improve. She still tries to accept food and is still fairly active. I haven't really messed with her lately and I clean her mouth maybe once a week. The white crap is strange because it starts out as a hardened crust in her lower mouth parts but then if exposed to water it seems to inflate into a paste.

The smell I WAS smelling in her poo smelled like a bad sinus infection

Anyways there she is, still adorable and still a fighter


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## demonanjel117 (Aug 6, 2011)

Man I havent been on here in awhile! Melly is definitely looking alot better! She is so cute! I hope and wish nothing but the best for you and Melly. I still think it odd that no one knows what is affecting her even with all the pics and descriptions, people still say nematodes when its obviously not.


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## Vespula (Aug 6, 2011)

I'm glad Melly's doing better. She's such a fighter. I think it's wonderful that you stuck with her, and helped her through. I hope she keeps getting better and better.


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## Ixithel (Aug 8, 2011)

Wow, I attempted feeding her and I actually saw both her fangs come out this time. I'm not sure if she got it, but she was more frantic about it this time. Fingers crosssed!


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## Vespula (Aug 8, 2011)

Ixithel said:


> Wow, I attempted feeding her and I actually saw both her fangs come out this time. I'm not sure if she got it, but she was more frantic about it this time. Fingers crosssed!


Wow! That's quite the improvement! I'm happy for her!


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## akpropst (Aug 13, 2011)

*update*

Can we get an update on this? Eager to hear she is doing better!


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## webbedone (Aug 13, 2011)

This story warms my heart


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## Ixithel (Aug 13, 2011)

See this is her problem. She catches the prey by one fang and holds it to her mouth for days until the prey dies and starts rotting to which I have to take it from her. She still hasn't eaten and her abdomens looking small again. I can't tell if it's because if it's shriveled or because thats how her hair grows. She's still doing good though despite all that! Nothing abnormal besides the usual. White stuff seems to be going away or showing to a minimum and keep in mind I only clean her fangs once a week or so now so thats a big improvement in my book. I need her to molt out whatever problem she is having with her fangs..


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## DannyH (Aug 13, 2011)

Ixithel said:


> See this is her problem. She catches the prey by one fang and holds it to her mouth for days until the prey dies and starts rotting to which I have to take it from her. She still hasn't eaten and her abdomens looking small again. I can't tell if it's because if it's shriveled or because thats how her hair grows. She's still doing good though despite all that! Nothing abnormal besides the usual. White stuff seems to be going away or showing to a minimum and keep in mind I only clean her fangs once a week or so now so thats a big improvement in my book. I need her to molt out whatever problem she is having with her fangs..


I think once that happens, she will be a lot better, and she looks like she may molt soon.


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## webbedone (Aug 13, 2011)

Try Giving her something softer. Maybe chop up a large cricket and offer her the soft abdomen part maybe she will have less problems with it


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## Ixithel (Aug 14, 2011)

I've tried. She won't go for anything prekilled or dying. It just sits and rots up her enclosure.


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## BrettG (Aug 14, 2011)

I have a small OBT with the same issues as your spider.I am starting to think something is wrong with the sucking stomach or the mouth itself.


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## Ixithel (Aug 15, 2011)

Does it have the white mouth problems too?


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## Drakk (Aug 15, 2011)

Bravo to all your efforts and hers....she really is looking better!


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## Falk (Aug 15, 2011)

Ixithel said:


> I'm going to try and take a sample of that goop and put it in water and see what happens. Regardless i'm going to set her up an icu tonight and leave her in there until morning and check up on her then. I hope it's not evil parasites. Do you know how it spreads? If shes in the same room as my other Ts it won't harm them right?
> 
> ---------- Post added at 03:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:33 AM ----------
> 
> So I just pinched her and flipped her over and noticed all the white gunk was gone. After pulling various pieces of substrate out her mouth I took a syringe and squirted the area with water. After it pooled up it got slightly cloudy and I looked for a while, hard and close with a light to aid me and saw no moving, squiggly wormy things at all. Her palps move fine, she acts pretty normal (like a rosie). Maybe it was poo or web?


Why would you torture your spider with an ICU??? Can you tell me why that would help?
When buying WC from petstores there is a risk of getting nemotodes, and rescue one from a petstore wll just kill another


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## Embers To Ashes (Aug 15, 2011)

Falk said:


> Why would you torture your spider with an ICU??? Can you tell me why that would help?
> When buying WC from petstores there is a risk of getting nemotodes, and rescue one from a petstore wll just kill another


If you actualy read the intire thread, you would know that it is NOT nemotodes. I don't understand why you would think an ICU is torture. She oviously loves her tarantula and is trying everything to save it.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Falk (Aug 15, 2011)

Embers To Ashes said:


> If you actualy read the intire thread, you would know that it is NOT nemotodes. I don't understand why you would think an ICU is torture. She oviously loves her tarantula and is trying everything to save it.


Do you know how much stress a super humid and unfamiliar container will cause to an arid spider? And what good will a icu do to a infested spider you think?


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## Ixithel (Aug 15, 2011)

Falk- LOL I can't tell if you're trolling or looking for someone to debate the purpose of an ICU with. My rosea does not have nematodes and has not been near an ICU for a long time, as anyone who kept up with my thread would have realized.

If you kept up with my thread you would know she is getting better and not even in need of an ICU. I'm trying everything I can to try and save my little girl and thats why I tried an ICU, as most hobbyists would.

At one point her abdomen was shriveled, YES. I tried an ICU to try to hydrate her and after that ICU I put her back in her enclosure, she drank, her abdomen filled out some. So obviously it had to do her some good. I stand by everything I have attempted to get her healthy again and looking at her now i'm glad I bothered because she is doing better then ever. The only issue is her not eating and I suspect it's a fang issue. All I can really do is wait for her to molt out.


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## BrettG (Aug 15, 2011)

It has a whitish crust,yes.


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## Echolalia (Aug 15, 2011)

I'm really glad to see that Melly is doing better! She's so adorable, and has the most dedicated owner I've heard of


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## Ixithel (Aug 20, 2011)

Hey guys not so good news...

Lately I have been leaving Melly alone more to see if she picks up recovery by herself and to reduce her stress, but that also meant not cleaning her mouth or anything. Her health just took a rapid downhill spiral and I fear she may not have the energy to molt out her eating impairment. 

She's been hunching over again and ignoring food but there appears to be a lack of white stuff. I haven't seen any for a while on her mouth.

I'm gonna resume my "treatments" and I will keep you guys posted. I bought her crickets but she isn't interested.

Its funny how the people who are critical about what I'm doing here tell me I'm stressing her out by messing with her too much and when I stop she starts declining again =/

I'm hoping she's in premolt but I doubt it.


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## Ixithel (Aug 22, 2011)

also, the foul scent has moved on from a bad sinus infection to rotted lilacs. I'm not sure if anyone could tell me something about that.


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## Ixithel (Aug 27, 2011)

She's webbing, pooping and hunting still. Her poo smells the strongest of the rotted lilac scent.

How can she poo when she doesn't even eat? @__@


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## Verneph (Aug 27, 2011)

Ixithel said:


> How can she poo when she doesn't even eat? @__@


Perhaps she is expelling whatever is ailing her?


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## Ixithel (Aug 28, 2011)

I hope so because her poo smells just like the lilac scent only much stronger.


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## Ixithel (Sep 1, 2011)

*Not good at all*

Hey guys. As you know I've been fighting hard to keep my baby girl well...however I think she's starting to give up on me.

Her abdomen is horribly tiny. She is no longer drinking. She can hardly hunt and when she does get ahold of a food item she cannot digest it so it ends up dying and rotting.

She's been curling. It's not quite a death curl but it's partial, she will go out of it when I touch her but she can't even walk straight. She limps and when I lightly tap her spinnerets she seems to flinch and quiver. Her abdomen is also the very source of the rotted lilac scent.

She hobbles and gives up and leans forward with her back legs outstretched and the rest bunched around her, body flat on the ground. Sometimes she'll stand upright but rarely and when she does she usually wanders into a corner and curls. She's not even going into her hide anymore.

I don't even think she has the strength to cling on with her feet hooks anymore.

I've been doing my best for her...but I don't like how she's walking or how she flinches when I touch her. I don't want her to suffer. At this point I'm not sure what I should do...she could still have a chance and I don't want to take that chance away from her but I do not want her to be hurting.

I'm going to film a short video of her walking so you guys can actually see how she is and I'll post that along with a couple pictures but...idk I'm crushed. I hate seeing her like this and I think this is as bad as she's ever been.


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## demonanjel117 (Sep 1, 2011)

I dont want to tell you to give up and Im not going to as much as I may want to. Just think of whats best for her and do that. Hope you and her the best.


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## Ixithel (Sep 1, 2011)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57rzHxlB6HM

Video is kinda dark but you can see how she sets and how she walks...her abdomen size...


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## vickywild (Sep 2, 2011)

:-(

I hope this story has a happy ending.


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## HighFlyer (Sep 2, 2011)

Thats a rough video.. I really admire everything you've done for her. Best of luck.


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## 8leglock (Sep 2, 2011)

Sorry to hear about your T. I recently had a king baboon shipped out to me and I am going through the same problem .


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## Drakk (Sep 2, 2011)

Poor girl...
You've truly made a heroic effort already.
She would not have even still been around to fight without your dedication.
In my opinion you have done what every spider lover should...much love and best wishes.


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## synyster (Sep 2, 2011)

First of all, I have followed this thread but never responded. But I bow down to your efforts as I have never heard a care story even close to yours. You are a true passionate and have all my respect. Continue like that, your are on the right track 

Now I just finished watching your video and have to give you a bit of hope. My Theraphosa blondi (*thread viewable here*) had some issues as well, and even though it was a whole other matter, at the end was walking the exact same way as yours. I transfered her when I noticed that and one week later, she wouldn't even walk any more and was almost fully deathcurled. I transfered her without any hope to an ICU, and she surprise molted that night and is completely healthy since 

Now I'm not saying that yours _*will*_ do this, but don't let all hope be gone as these little guys can really be surprising sometimes. I wish you the best and hope everything pulls out fine 

Keep us updated...

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ixithel (Sep 3, 2011)

Thank you everyone for your support. I'm going to be crushed if she passes, she's in an ICU and so far not improving. Hopefully she will dunk her face in one of the water dishes I have in there and recover. If not...well, i'll be sure to update as soon as I discover her body


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## Jon3800 (Sep 3, 2011)

I'd would keep the paper towels in her ICU a little more wet than usual.  In case she doesn't have enough strength to dunk her face in the water dishes, she can get to the moisture on the paper towels.  You've done a miraculous job keeping her alive this far


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## 8leglock (Sep 3, 2011)

Couple of questions. I have read pretty much posts but don't remember. You said the container smelled with my baboon I'm having the same issues . Her ice smells really bad like rot however she is still very aggressive quick to hiss and dart away from me. O and what a species to try and do this with ug don't care if I get bit I just want her ot get better. She had a hardened white gunk neR it's mouth and was very stubborn to come loose. Finally got it removed last night and this morning no new white stuff but cage still smells cleaned everything and new water. Honestly I change the water every few hours. I really do feel bad for both our T's I'm too much of a humanitarian. He'll I trap feral cats and bring them to my vet to get fixed and vaccines before letting them go. 
So if anyone can answer this if my baboois hissing at me is that a good sign? That means it can move it's fangs if she wanted to correct? Other than the smell and white gunk no other signs of nematodes are present. She just molted last week  4 days after I received her . She is close to 3.5-4 inches and very pretty.

---------- Post added 09-03-2011 at 12:27 PM ----------

http://s1194.photobucket.com/albums/aa375/dementsha/
New to this photo bucket stuff so bare With me. A few pics of what I was trying to describe but iPad don't have the best resolutions.


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## Ixithel (Sep 3, 2011)

*Jon3800*- will do! I just wish I had more time to try and water her with a syringe myself. Though when I do it pools up and she shows no sign of actually drinking it.

*8leglock* I know with Melly's white gloop every few days or so I would drop some water onto it and wait for it to become a gooey texture, then wipe at it with a wet Q tip. Occasionally swishing it around and then sucking it up with the syringe. Examining this under a microscope has shown mite-like critters but no nematodes at all. Doing this frequently got rid of the white completely as she has not had it for some time now. I also change her substrate frequently.

If the cage still smells it might be the OBT itself. I know Melly's cage had a rotten lilac scent to it UNTIL I removed her. I'm still confused to what the smell could mean but i'm guessing it might be some sort of bacterial infection as it comes out very rancid in her poo. If your OBT has what Melly has and it molted and is still uppity and fiesty then this could be a good sign. I think my Melly is simply too old to molt out and fight whatever might be killing her.

Nematodes and Melly's condition do not add up, so I wouldn't be too worried about it if it seems to be acting normal otherwise. I would try to get a good look at the goo under a microscope mixed with a little water to see what you find. If she eats then she might pull through. Melly can move her fangs but she has no strength to dig them into her prey.

With an OBT my method I used with Melly would be dangerous but if you're confident and know your T well I say go for it and I hope she doesn't turn out like mine


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## D3N2 (Sep 3, 2011)

Ixithel said:


> I hope she doesn't turn out like mine


Wellll.. Don't speak too early, Melly might still have a chance! 

I, too, have read this whole thread.  It took almost an hour and a half, but it's quite a story!  I don't think I would ever have the persistence to do what you have done, Ixithel.  Definitely props to that.  I do hope Melly makes it.  If she doesn't, at least her suffering would be over.

PS. What does rotten lilac smell like?


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## Ixithel (Sep 3, 2011)

helfaya said:


> Wellll.. Don't speak too early, Melly might still have a chance!
> 
> I, too, have read this whole thread.  It took almost an hour and a half, but it's quite a story!  I don't think I would ever have the persistence to do what you have done, Ixithel.  Definitely props to that.  I do hope Melly makes it.  If she doesn't, at least her suffering would be over.
> 
> PS. What does rotten lilac smell like?


I re-soaked her paper towels and put her somewhere warm so hopefully she pulls through.

Rotten lilac smells like...lilacs that have been baking in the sun too long with sour undertones? 

and thanks for taking the time to read through this. Lots of people skim the front and accuse me of being a horrible T owner lol

---------- Post added 09-03-2011 at 12:35 PM ----------

Also. Some may not agree with this but I have her over a heating pad. It doesn't get very hot and her ICU enclosure is lifted so it's not directly on it. Once it warmed up she seems to have uncurled...she will be closely monitored throughout the day. I will not let her get too hot but right now it seems to be helping...the paper towels were so cold before.


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## Ixithel (Sep 4, 2011)

She was pulled from the heating pad around 3 and has been near my computer. She's half way laying on her side right now... i'm going to attempt to hydrate her by syringe


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## 0siris (Sep 4, 2011)

That video was sad. I know you don't want to give up on her, but I urge you to consider that if you think for a moment if she is suffering, consider the freezer.

I'll admit I did not read all of the 16 pages of this thread but I have been roughly following her progress (way from the beginning when she had the discharge from her mouth) but I thought I would throw that out there.

It's not an easy decision but she's obviously been "uncomfortable" (loose terminology there) for the past 4 months now...I just hate seeing any animal in this condition.... :cry:


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## Ixithel (Sep 4, 2011)

0siris said:


> That video was sad. I know you don't want to give up on her, but I urge you to consider that if you think for a moment if she is suffering, consider the freezer.
> 
> I'll admit I did not read all of the 16 pages of this thread but I have been roughly following her progress (way from the beginning when she had the discharge from her mouth) but I thought I would throw that out there.
> 
> It's not an easy decision but she's obviously been "uncomfortable" (loose terminology there) for the past 4 months now...I just hate seeing any animal in this condition.... :cry:


Yeah... I was considering it. But at the same time I don't want to rob her of a chance at life if she isn't.  x.x


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## Vespula (Sep 4, 2011)

I'm rooting for Melly, if that means much. She's such a little fighter. I'm hoping that she'll pull through for you. You've done a wonderful job of trying to help her.


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## Ixithel (Sep 5, 2011)

After work I found Melly half curled. She can barely move. Her mouth seemed wet at least but i'm not sure if thats from today's attempted syringe hydration or what. I put her face forward into a water dish and made sure her book lungs aren't in it. She isn't moving and usually when I do that she protests by getting up and moving away from it.. To be honest guys, i'll be surprised if she makes it these next couple days. 

Idk if I should leave her like that because i'm not sure she could get out if she wanted to. She'll be alright so long as her lungs aren't submerged right?


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## HighFlyer (Sep 5, 2011)

I've never attempted to put a spider in a water dish like that, so I'm not the best judge. But, it would make sense that if her lungs are out of the water she should be OK. I'm really pulling for Melly. Think positive thoughts and keep a close eye on her like you have been and hopefully she'll make it. Good luck.


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## 8leglock (Sep 5, 2011)

Again I do sympathize with you . My king baboon just passed the other day. Tried water cricket soup an icu followed almost any idea I could but guess it wasn't enough. Even after 10 days The awesome guys at petcenterusa were kind enough to work with me. Very good people over there. Hope u have a better outcome than I . Again good luck prayers for you.


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## Ixithel (Sep 5, 2011)

*HighFlyer* Thank you. I'm hoping for the best too...I couldn't bear to chuck her in the freezer. Sounds unfair to me. I wish we had a better way of telling if a T is suffering.. gah, idk.

*8leglock* Thats horrible  I'm very sorry for your loss. How long had it been since you discovered the goo that she passed?


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## BrettG (Sep 5, 2011)

I am sorry that she has not bounced back,but I think you have just delayed the inevitable. Now,I am not one to think of spiders as being able to suffer or feel,but that one is just pathetic,and if it could talk it might just beg you to let it pass........The obt I told you about with the same condition got to the point that it could not even walk properly a few days ago,and I had to do what was best for the spider and put it in the freezer.It is terrible to think about,but as long as it has been with no real progress,it may be the best option.I know that if I were that bad off,I would be begging for it.....


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## Ixithel (Sep 5, 2011)

I'm definitely going to give her a few days before I make that big of a decision


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## BrettG (Sep 5, 2011)

I would really start considering it,as it has been in a miserable condition for quite a while now.The OBT I had was in this state for MONTHS,and it became clear that it was not going to be on the up and up anytime in the next decade.It sucks,its hard,but holding on just does not seem like the best option for her.Personally I think the time to make the decision has been at hand for a while now,considering she has had way more downs than ups,and shows zero signs of improvement.I am not a huge freezer advocate,but prolonging the inevitable is not going to help matters at all.It is only making you feel better by knowing she is still there...I hope you know that I am not being a jerk,just trying to end that spiders obvious discomfort.To me it is like keeping Granny on the machine just because she is still technically "alive".


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## Vespula (Sep 5, 2011)

:cry: I'm sorry that she's taking a bad turn. I'm still praying for her, though. You've done an amazing job of taking care of her, and for that I'm glad. Good luck to her.


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## Ixithel (Sep 5, 2011)

I will let you guys know is anything comes up or if I choose to let her sleep...


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## lunashimmer (Sep 8, 2011)

Ixithel, any updates? I'm thinking that with 3 days' passed since you posted last, it's not good...    ...but still hoping.


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## Ixithel (Sep 9, 2011)

She's almost gone...


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## deathkorps (Sep 9, 2011)

Ixithel said:


> She's almost gone...


I've been following this thread from the get go and it is so sad to hear that. are you gonna go ahead and put her to sleep?


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## HighFlyer (Sep 9, 2011)

What's happening with her?


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## Ixithel (Sep 9, 2011)

*I have decided..*

Last night I discovered Melly in a partial death curl. I flipped her over and dripped water onto her for about an hour and then put her back into an icu over a water dish. This morning she is in a full death curl and I have made my decision to put her to sleep. She was my baby but I cannot let her suffer any longer. I'm crying my eyes out lol. I just really hope I made the best decision for her. I will never regret my decision at buying her from petco, even though I will never do so again, she was the best rosie I have ever had and certainly never going to be replaceable. I thank every single person for their support and advice, even if it was more negative then positive.








Rest in peace little Melly. You were the best T I could have asked for.


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## Verneph (Sep 9, 2011)

I'm so sorry.  I was really pushing for Melly to pull through this.  

Though, at the very least you tried.  You tried far, far harder when most other T owners would have given up.   I know a lot of people argue about whether or not T's understand us as individuals, and while there is a lot of evidence that says they cannot, I can honestly say that if Melly was capable of thought beyond our own understanding then at least she knew there was someone in this world who loved her.  

You have my condolences Ixithel.  I hope you feel better soon.


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## vickywild (Sep 9, 2011)

RIP Melly.


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## zonbonzovi (Sep 9, 2011)

Ah, poo.  I know you were attached to her, but if you would like to give it another shot I have a couple very healthy roseas that you can choose from(but only if you make it out to the Puyallup show or the after-gathering


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## D3N2 (Sep 9, 2011)

Sorry to hear about Melly.  RIP


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## takelondon (Sep 9, 2011)

I'm so sorry for your loss. What a beautiful picture you posted of her, try to remember her like that. I've followed her story since the beginning and you should be proud that you gave her a fighting chance. Never have regrets for trying your damnedest to help a suffering animal. You gave her the longest life possible and granted her a graceful death comfortable in your home, not alone and possibly neglected in a pet store.

She's not in pain any more, she's somewhere better now where there are no internal parasites or mites or stuck molts. Requiescat in pace.


-Kendra


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## jbalboa1981 (Sep 9, 2011)

R.I.P Melly.  Sorry for your loss.


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## DannyH (Sep 9, 2011)

Very sorry to hear that.  Rest in peace Melly. She was a cute Rosey.

Reactions: Like 1


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## HighFlyer (Sep 9, 2011)

I'm very sorry, this has been a long long struggle with lots of ups and downs. Kudos to you for sticking with her and trying your hardest to nurse her back to health.


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## Vespula (Sep 9, 2011)

Rest in peace, Melly. 

You fought dang hard to keep her. You tried your best, and gave her a fighting chance. She will always be in your heart, though. 

I, for one, am glad that you helped her. The way you kept fighting is inspirational to all of us other keepers.


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## thruthetrees (Sep 9, 2011)

RIP Melly!! You are a great person for being so dedicated to her recovery for so long!


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## 8leglock (Sep 9, 2011)

It's sad when anyones pet passes, that much worse when you try as hard as you did to revive her. I'm sure she is in a better place. you did everything you could I'm sure melly knew that. Well now the healing process for you can start. Feel better and I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say we are all here if you need.


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## Embers To Ashes (Sep 10, 2011)

Im so sorry for your loss. I have been following this since the begining and Im proud to say that I wish there where more people in the hobby that cared as much as you. I know it will be very hard for you, but maybe you could try disection to see what is inside her?


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## lunashimmer (Sep 10, 2011)

Aww, Ixi. I was so hoping for a happy ending. I hope you feel better each day.

On the plus side, you've given the T hobby some good info on caring for sickly Ts. I hope that knowledge can help you through this time.

{{hugs to you}}


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## Ixithel (Sep 10, 2011)

Thank you everyone... It's so hard for me to grasp the fact she is gone. I look at her ICU enclosure and her normal one like normal to check on her like I used to and then I realize she's not here. It's upsetting but i'm glad she isn't suffering. I really hope I made the best decision. It pains me to even think that I took her life. In a way I didn't take her life, I gave her peace.



*zonbonzovi* Haha thanks but I'm okay. I have 3 little rcf rosies to raise. I wouldn't be able to look at a normal colored g. rosea for a while. Melly was my baby girl.


*Embers To Ashes* It has crossed my mind to perhaps try a dissection. However I don't believe I am going to, I couldn't do it. Too hard for me to even look at her curled self 

Again thank you everyone who has stuck to this thread and gave me hope. Perhaps this story will be useful to someone in the future.


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## Echolalia (Sep 10, 2011)

I'm really sorry about Melly, I've been following this since the beginning; I just wanted to say that I think you're an amazing person for being so dedicated to helping your 8-legged friend out. She was really adorable, and I'm glad she isn't suffering anymore.

R.I.P Melly, you'll be missed.


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## Slevin (Sep 14, 2011)

i know it has been a few days since the last post but just know that a fellow washingtonian is incredibly impressed with your determination and sincere love for your friend. this thread was one of the main reasons i joined up here. hope you're doing alright and i'm so glad melly had such a great keeper. i wish you all the best in your future tarantula endeavors!

Reactions: Like 1


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