# My big bullfrog



## arachnocat (Oct 16, 2006)

I posted these questions on a frog forum, but I thought there might be some frog keepers lurking around here too who could give me some advice  

I bought a large bullfrog at the petstore this weekend. The frogs were being kept in really bad conditions. They were crammed together in a small tank with gravel instead of soft potting soil. A lot of the frogs had wounds on them, some on the whole top of their head. I didn't think the pet store should be selling them in this condition and I felt really bad for them. I've had my eye on this guy for a week so I decided to buy him, hoping he might be able to recover. 
This is my first time keeping a frog and I wanted to ask some knowlegeable people if he'll be ok. The people at the pet store just sort of shrugged when I asked what was wrong with the frogs. I'm really hoping it's not the red leg disease I've read about and that the wounds are just from being shipped to the petstore or living in cramped conditions. Here's a pic of froggys face. Do you think it's a bad infection or just scars? I couldn't find too much info online. Also, can you tell if this frog is male or female? I've read you can tell by comparing the eye to the ear but I couldn't find pics. 

Also, is there any specific care I can give the frog for his wounds or should I just let him recover on his own? 

Any advice would be much appreciated. I'll try to post some better pics (showing how huge this froggy is!) a bit later. I've been trying to leave him alone to heal and get used to his new habitat. Although I had quite a time chasing him around the house after I took this pic last night. lol. They sure are fast for thier size!


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## AneesasMuse (Oct 16, 2006)

> The sex of an adult bullfrog can be easily determined by examining the size of the tympanum (the external ear of the frog) relative to that of the eye. The tympanum is a round circle located on the side of the head near the eye, and in males it is much larger than the eye. In females the tympanum is as large or smaller than the eye. Also, during the breeding season the throat of the male bullfrog is yellow, whereas the female's is white.


I found this info here: http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/site/accounts/information/Rana_catesbeiana.html

If you google R. catesbeiana and hit Images, you will find lots of pics. 

I have a tiny little one right now... raised from a tadpole in my aquarium. He/she just morphed and absorbed the remaining "nubby" and started to eat everything in sight! 

I'm sorry I can't help further with the injuries/illness on your frogger. You might also try http://p076.ezboard.com/bflippersnfins. Ask in either of the forums for frogs, or even the ER section. They are very familiar with frog disease and such in smaller frogs... they may know something about these lesions on your frog's head.

Good Luck!


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## Arachnophilist (Oct 16, 2006)

isnt it illegal for them to sell you frogs that occur naturally in your area? and nice frog BTW hope it recovers well.. I wonder if aloe would be usable or vitamin E. I think the miracle tea tree oil would be too harsh for a frog but i know you can use it on animals with open wounds with no ill effect.


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## Thoth (Oct 16, 2006)

I know with dart frogs some keeps just apply Neosporin (or generic equivalent) with a swab to the wounds to aid in healing. I'm not sure how it would work with a bullfrog since they tend to spend alot of time in the water.

As far as I know for legalities of selling native species as pets, as long as it is not a protected species in that locality then it is okay.


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## iturnrocks (Oct 16, 2006)

Thanks for feeling sorry for the frog and encouraging the pet store to order more frogs by buying one.  I see the same action with turtle owners who buy turtles because they think the pet store is mistreating them.  This lets the pet store know that even though they are mistreating them, people will keep buying them.  So when they all sell, they will order more and keep them in the same conditions, hoping for another sympathy purchase.

This is why I catch my own.


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## arachnocat (Oct 16, 2006)

Thanks for the links! I posted a message on that forum so hopefully I'll get some help for froggy. From looking at pics, I'm thinking that my frog is a female  
It must be cool to raise them from a tadpole. I don't think they're illegal to sell. This is the first time I've seen a petstore selling adult bullfrogs, but I have seen bullfrog tadpoles at petsmart and some other stores. There are some science supply places like Niles Biological that sell bullfrogs and other common frogs from my area.


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## arachnocat (Oct 16, 2006)

I have spoken with the owner of the pet store and he said they were in fact damaged during shipping to the store and they won't be getting any more in once these are gone. Still no excuse for keeping them that way but this store always has nice healthy animals with the exception of these frogs. I know I shouldn't have bought a sick animal kept in bad conditions as you're right, it just encourages the store to keep selling them. It wasn't so much a rescue as that I really wanted the frog. You have a very good point though.


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## Arachnophilist (Oct 16, 2006)

ok well Im in Canada and I know the petstores here arent aloowed to do that.


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## AneesasMuse (Oct 16, 2006)

Please post back any info you find on your frogger. I would be interested in it, just for future scenarios... should one arise... with my own little one, and to know how your frog is doing, too.

Good Luck!


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## bugmankeith (Oct 16, 2006)

I think over time with care the wound will heal. By me they sold albino and normal bullfrogs tadpoles by the bunch, I mean 100 or more at a time in one tank! I asked them where the heck do you get them all, they said the frogs lay eggs in the goldfish pond they breed, and the tads are a nuisuance, so with each shipment the stores seperate the tads from the goldfish, and make a profit off of nature by selling the fish and tads. It's sad though all they feed the tads is algae growing on the tank, thats all, most starve, or are brought by kids, who dont realize what they will turn into, the store tells people they are leopard frog tads, except Petco, they actually say they are bullfrog tads.

I have never seen adults sold, I imagine most would die, because they cannibalize, and their constant jumping and kicking quickly causes injuries, especially sold in a tiny tank in a pet store.

I used to have bullfrog tads, they all grew fine, then someone my mom worked for asked for them, he had a pond in his backyard, a big pond, nothing fenced in. He said he let the frogs go in their, I know its bad to let them go in the wild, but once they got too big I found out nobody else would take them, I even offered them to a herp museum, they rejected them.

Anyway I heard it's illegal to sell bullfrog tads or adults in NY, as a wildlife professional I talked to said the "S" word when I told him where I got them from, and he quickly hung up on me.


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## Kriegan (Oct 16, 2006)

Awww poor thing I don't know anything about frogs, but I really hope your froggy's wounds can heal in no time, they sure aren't looking good:evil:


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## Bill S (Oct 16, 2006)

Only bullfrog I've kept was one I put in a fishpond in my yard.  Did very well with no care at all.  It was a male, which means on summer nights all the neighbors knew he was there.

As far as legalities - in Arizona they are considered an introduced species, not a native one.  And they're a pest, which means there are no restrictions on catching, killing or cooking them.  (They eat anything they can fit in their mouths, which includes all native species of amphibians.)


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## arachnocat (Jan 15, 2007)

*Froggy Update*

Hi. I just wanted to post an update. Froggy is doing much better. All her wounds have healed and I've set up a new tank for her. I have a nice filter waterfall and a turtle dock for her to sit on. She seems pretty active and I think she actually ate an earthworm last night. I do have a question though. I searched through the caresheets online and some of them say a bullfrog needs soil to burrow in. Others say just a few rocks for them to sit on is fine. Should I add a box with soil in it to the tank or will she be ok in this type of habitat?

Also, I visited the pet store I got her from this weekend and they still sell bullfrogs but they have a set up similar to this one and the all frogs look healthy now.

New froggy home






This is the best pic I could get of her. She was hidin under the water


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## bugmankeith (Jan 15, 2007)

Wow she is amazing looking, great job! Too bad you didnt live by me you could rescue over 100 large tadpoles, there in every pet store here and most dont ever become a frog.  

Bullfrogs hibernate so they will dig in the soil for hibernation, I dont know if it's necessary for them to hibernate in captivity though?

 As for more land looks like your out of room in that tank, if you need more land the tank would have to be longer (a bigger tank)

I've seen bullfrogs in captivity and their tank was twice as long as yours, I guess because they are great hoppers and they need a lot of space. Your water depth is great, but not much space to hop around on land. Some setups have turtle rafts, but instead of floating, the raft sits underwater, and the frogs climb up it, like a bridge I suppose. It's slanted.

I've also seen setups where flat rocks were piled on top of each other as land, but the water was shallow and they frogs couldnt dive, and I think bullfrogs enjoy alot of water.


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## AneesasMuse (Jan 15, 2007)

Wow! She looks great... all healed up!  
I don't know about the land thing either. I agree though, if you plan to put some type of soil in there... you may need a larger tank. I'll ask around and see what some of my friends think. 
My little frogger wasn't big enough for me to worry too much about soil in his tank just yet... he was only about 2 months out of morph and just at 2". I was waiting to see how strong he was and saving for "the ultimate" set up/viv for him... then my cat changed the plan. (she's still alive... the cat... but she is no longer allowed in the Critter Room   )
I'm waiting for Spring now... I want another tadpole to raise up. I miss my frogger!


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## bugmankeith (Jan 15, 2007)

Just to let you know i'm contacting everyone I can to see if they can find a picture of a good bullfrog tank setup.


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## arachnocat (Jan 15, 2007)

That's awesome! Thanks so much.  
There wasn't much info online. My tank is actually pretty wide although you can't tell in the pic. I have room for either one more land area or I could rig up an area with soil in it. I have a small kitty litter pan that I had been using for her water area in the old tank. I think I could put some stones under it and prop it up so she could get in and out. I think she would like her hide log back too. She's pretty shy.
She had been hibernating in soil for a while because our house was pretty cold. This tank has a UV light so she should stay warmer. I also noticed she has changed color from green to brown. I'm guessing its from lack of light because she's been under the soil for a while? I'm hoping she'll get her color back with the new light and warmer temp.


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## bugmankeith (Jan 15, 2007)

I wasn't talking about width, your ok with that, I was referring to length.

Mabye as she ages she turns brown, or it has to do with cold weather.

She used to be outside, didn't know. If she was i'm sure she enjoyed that in the summer. 

What do you feed her.


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## bugmankeith (Jan 16, 2007)

Ok got some new information.


I contacted someone who keeps bullfrogs, she said that a 120 gallon is the minimum for keeping bullfrogs, because of their jumping abilities, but she wasnt satisfied with a tank, so she somehow built an indoor pond for her bullfrogs. Expensive, probably, but she said it was worth it.

 If they dont have enough room they develop growth problems, I guess they dont grow properly because they are cramped? It makes sense I guess, in the wild they can swim and jump and develop strong muscles.

As for the setup, One third to a half of the tank should be land, and the rest should be water. You can do this easily by buying some plexiglass and siliconing in in the right place so that its water-tight. Your water depth is fine. 

She also said your frog doesnt need to hibernate since your in a warm climate. Hibernation is only for breeding really, and i'm sure there are plenty of frogs in the stores by you dont need to breed.

Bullfrogs are loners and do not like other frogs in their environment. They will actually eat smaller frogs if they can fit them in their mouths. Expect anything that goes in its tank to be eaten.

All frogs have a circle that is right behind the eye. If the frog is a male, the circle will be larger than the eye, if it is a female, the circle will be smaller.

Also bullfrogs can get cancer (black lumps) They say it's caused by not enough vitamins in the diet. Sprinkle Prime (vitamin supplement brand) on the food once a week.


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## arachnocat (Jan 16, 2007)

Cool! Thanks for the info. I found someone who works for the reptile rescue in my area and she has a large indoor pond so I might let her adopt my frog. I do feel bad keeping it in a small tank. Once she's been adopted I'll probably get a few fire belly toads for the set up, just lower the water level a bit. I wish I had room to build an indoor pond. That would be awesome. My cats would love it.


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## bugmankeith (Jan 16, 2007)

Hey, depending on how much space she has, mabye she can keep an extra bullfrog or two, so that means if you give her yours, mabye you can go buy a bullfrog tadpole or another bullfrog to raise for a while, then give it to her once you rehabilitated it to perfect health again. 

But I guess she would have to keep them seperate otherwise the bigger frog will eat the small frog.

If she can care for your frog properly and she has the room, then that's great for your frog if you decide you cant care for her, and i'm sure you'll be able to visit the frog.


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## Galapoheros (Jan 16, 2007)

That's great!  When I was a teenager, I saw a huge one in the road.  I stopped and picked it up.  It didn't even try to hop away.  My parents were in their bedroom.  I brought it into their room and said, "Look what I found!"  They just smiled a little and said where'd you find that....blabla"  I wondered why they were so calm about it.  Then I realized they thought it was a big stuffed frog I found in the road!  They didn't know it was real.  Theeen I got the freak out reaction I had expected.  Anybody see that doc show where they filmed that Bullfrog sneaking up very slowly on that sparrow at the waters edge?  It was several years ago when I saw it.  He missed once or twice but the last time it tried, it snuck up reeeeaal slow like a cat with only it's eyes out of the water and WHAM!  I was surprised to see that they had the instinct to do that.  That was pretty cool.


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## bugmankeith (Jan 19, 2007)

In case you wanted to see, here is a page with an indoor turtle pond, pics included.

If you wanted to keep a bullfrog, you would have to surround the pond with mesh fencing to prevent escape.

http://www.fishpondinfo.com/indoor.htm


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## Ant Worker (Jan 23, 2007)

Gosh, I got a bullfrog tadpole from petco for free, what size tank is that? I wanna get one a little bigger than that..


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## myrmecophile (Jan 23, 2007)

It is illegal in California to sell any Ca. native reptiles... unless you have a breeders permit for a select few species. However I believe BFs are non native here as well and I suspect not regulated in that way with regard to sales, although they should be. I would have to check the current fishing regs. They are however a tremendously destructive species and should be eliminated from areas they have overrun.


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## Ant Worker (Jan 24, 2007)

CA is so strict, I would never live there in my life! lol


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## arachnocat (Jan 24, 2007)

Yeah it's pretty lame. California is also the only state where glo fish are illegal. That really makes me mad. Just because they are genetically engineered.  
Anyways, I am happy to say froggy is now living in a big indoor pond with a waterfall and a few friends.  
Now I'm going to work on planting my tank for some waterbugs.


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## bugmankeith (Jan 24, 2007)

Anyways, I am happy to say froggy is now living in a big indoor pond with a waterfall and a few friends.
Now I'm going to work on planting my tank for some waterbugs


Cool!


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## Ant Worker (Jan 25, 2007)

Hmm... Gotta find a place to put my frog when he gets big, I really wanna keep him though, but don't have space/money for a pond! lol.


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## Frogsarethapoop (Jan 26, 2007)

Ant Worker said:


> Hmm... Gotta find a place to put my frog when he gets big, I really wanna keep him though, but don't have space/money for a pond! lol.


Thats why you should do some research BEFORE you aquire a new pet.


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## Ant Worker (Jan 26, 2007)

First of all, before you make yourself look like a retard by not asking questions FIRST, and imediatly thinking it was just an impulse buy. The 2 tadpoles I have came in with a shipment of goldfish, they weren't supposed to be there, I asked the staff about them and they gave them to me. I saved them from dieing, they were very very near death. I figured he was a bullfrog at the store, and I have a friend with a very large outdoor pond, that has frogs. I knew that if all else fails and I can't keep it if it requires too much, I can release it there (its a wild frog, just managed to make its way in with goldfish, no harm done). The other is looking to be a smaller species of frog, one thats more manageable, although I'm not 100% sure.

So please Frogsarethapoop, don't speak without thinking again.


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## Frogsarethapoop (Jan 26, 2007)

I worked in a petstore for 4 years, and out of the 100 or so tadpoles that came in with the feeder goldfish shipments, every one of them was a bullfrog tadpole. That is reason number one why feeder goldfish are so nasty, BECAUSE THEY ARE FARMED OUTSIDE AND ARE OFTEN FULL OF PARASITES.

I did not assume it was an impulse buy, and in fact I read from your previous post exactly that you had taken them from work. However, that doesn't give you the right to be ignorant about an animal in your cares needs!

And you might want to take calling me a retard out of your post. That is how I got a suspension.


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## Ant Worker (Jan 27, 2007)

Frogsarethapoop said:


> I worked in a petstore for 4 years, and out of the 100 or so tadpoles that came in with the feeder goldfish shipments, every one of them was a bullfrog tadpole. That is reason number one why feeder goldfish are so nasty, BECAUSE THEY ARE FARMED OUTSIDE AND ARE OFTEN FULL OF PARASITES.
> 
> I did not assume it was an impulse buy, and in fact I read from your previous post exactly that you had taken them from work. However, that doesn't give you the right to be ignorant about an animal in your cares needs!
> 
> And you might want to take calling me a retard out of your post. That is how I got a suspension.


I'm aware that goldfish are full of parasites? I'm a fish keeper and I have a garter snake I know about fish parasites. Actually, what you may call " ignorance in my animal care needs ", is incorrect. I've provided them with food, bubbler, tank space, rocks to climb on when they have their legs coming in etc. I have done everything for these tadpoles, so you saying that was out of place. I had the plan of releasing them in my friends pond when I first got them, if they get too big and I can't keep them. How am I not caring for my animals? Tell me if you think you seem to know.

I didn't call you a retard either, I said you were making yourself look retarded, big difference. A person may not be retarded, but at time they can act like it.


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## nickbachman (Jan 27, 2007)

ahem.  do you guys know how _big_ bullfrog tadpoles are??







*EVERY* tadpole that i've seen in the goldfish shipments of the many, many pet stores i've been to in my lifetime has been about the size of my thumb, NOT palm sized, like bullfrog tadpoles.


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## Frogsarethapoop (Jan 27, 2007)

Ant Worker said:


> I had the plan of releasing them in my friends pond when I first got them, if they get too big and I can't keep them.


They are bullfrogs. Of course they are going to get big!!!


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## bugmankeith (Jan 27, 2007)

I've seen both those tad's in the same tank. The bullfrog tads weren't as big as yours (1st pic), BUT, they were bullfrogs, just not extra large like in the wild.

Is the 2nd a Green Frog, or is that a bullfrog too?


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## dtknow (Jan 27, 2007)

Bullfrog tads vary alot in size. I've seen froglets of bullfrogs come out of the water at an inch or so in poor conditions...and at 3.5 or so in good conditions(that'd be that big tadpole). Average is about 2 inches. The amount of food they get and the size of the pond partly controls that. I had a spawn of tadpoles in my pond...and as they are not native to CA tried killing them all(tough, as they lay 1000's of eggs). It was made easier when they all came out of the water at different sizes and eventually merged into fewer and fewer frogs.


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