# FIVE WAYS TO KILL A MILLIPEDE



## mickiem (Dec 18, 2017)

Ironically, when I got my first millipede (after a 20-year hiatus keeping invertebrates) I searched online for care information.  To my distress, the majority of what I found was how to kill millipedes, mostly from our leading pest control circles.  I constantly strive to provide better care for my amply footed friends.  But sometimes with our best intentions, we fall way short of the mark.  Like way on the opposite side.

A *DROP *or accidental fall is almost always fatal. A millipede is designed with legs that climb, dig, hold, grasp, etc., but sometimes even 500 legs can fail when they are in your hands. If you must hold your millipede (and please do!) just make sure it has a substantial grip on you and never hold it above a hard surface or more than a foot or so above anything. Watch how it’s legs move – it is mesmerizing it can keep track of that many legs. I can’t seem to keep two in order sometimes.
*DIGGING* accident – I’m not talking about when the millipede digs; I am talking about when _you_ dig.  Your millipede *will* disappear. You won’t see it for days and maybe weeks. I lost one for a few months once. (She was busy laying eggs.) Whatever it is doing in the subterrain, is something it needs to do without your help. Most likely it is molting or laying eggs. When a millipede molts, its body is super soft and can be easily damaged. Your touch cannot be gentle enough against this little Jell-O body. Give it time. But what if it died? That’s part of living, we need to accept it, but we cannot bring it back to life so digging is futile. If you have the urge to dig, go shopping. Go eat some ice cream. Go play Free Cell. Don’t dig. Just don’t do it. Having several millipedes holds a better chance you will see some on the surface.
*DESSICATION* – a screen top is not a millipede friendly cover. Most species of millipede need 80% humidity or even higher. This is easy to accomplish with a moist substrate or by misting the enclosure a few times a week. (Make sure the bottom layer of substrate does not become saturated.) Temperature is also important and can be a point of confusion. Even tropical species prefer temperatures under 80˚. Below ground is cooler than above ground – think of a root cellar or basement. These millipedes come from areas with a forest cover (super shade) and are under ground, so much cooler. The ground also holds moisture, which is also cooling.
Introducing *UNWANTED PESTS* – I know there are pros and cons to both sides of this issue. I used to collect soil, leaves and wood outside for my isopods. The last time I cleaned their enclosures I found all sorts of undesirables. Now I use the sterilized stuff for them, too. Once I mix a batch of substrate (all ingredients have been baked) I let it sit for about a month. During this time, I stir it to keep anaerobic bacteria from growing. I watch it closely to make sure nothing lived through my oven. When I do finally use it, I add springtails and they start the process of balancing the substrate. No matter which path you choose, there is a process of balancing the substrate. But the path that eliminates outdoor pests is more appealing to me. If you choose to gather things out doors, be super careful not to include ants, beetles, slugs, earthworms, isopods, etc., etc., etc.
*STARVATION* – you may not think this would be a problem for “dirt-eaters”. But “dirt” has many components such as rotting wood and leaves. Coir (coconut fiber) offers no nutritional value and some people believe it could even be detrimental if ingested. Most experts say at least 50% of the substrate should be edible (rotting wood and leaf litter). The wood should be soft and crumbly, never black. If there are other invertebrates living in it, it should be fine. The leaf litter should be at least a season old. Most millipedes love cucumbers, apples, mushrooms, mangoes, corn, etc. but these foods should be considered treats or supplements. Their primary diet should be the substrate.
Millipedes generally have long lives.  With just some basic care, we can be certain they reach their natural end.

Reactions: Like 8 | Agree 2 | Informative 6 | Helpful 6 | Love 1 | Award 1


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## LawnShrimp (Dec 18, 2017)

All good information; everyone with millipedes needs to read this.

Somebody sticky this and the substrate recipe. Better yet, add them together and sticky the whole thing.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 6


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## Aquarimax (Dec 18, 2017)

LawnShrimp said:


> Somebody sticky this and the substrate recipe. Better yet, add them together and sticky the whole thing.


Yes, please!


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## RTTB (Dec 19, 2017)

Very informative.


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## eggcellent (Dec 20, 2017)

This is such a good post, there really isn't much info on their care at all and starting out I had to scramble for info and am still learning.

I had to learn about the digging one the hard way last year when I used to try and check on them. I accidentally uncovered and nudged one of my desert mills while it was molting and had no idea what to do and it unfortunately passed. I no longer touch my millipede's substrates unless I see them all on the surface.


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## Chris B (Dec 20, 2017)

I'm starting my tank in winter, and don't have ready access to rotted wood. Would it be alright to order substrate from bugsincyberspace? They have a compost and oak chunk mix that sounds promising.


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## mickiem (Dec 20, 2017)

eggcellent said:


> I had to learn about the digging one the hard way last year when I used to try and check on them. I accidentally uncovered and nudged one of my desert mills while it was molting and had no idea what to do and it unfortunately passed.


I think most of us have had an unfortunate experience with this.  This seems to be a common issue with new keepers.  If you only have one or two, it's harder to keep from being curious.  My cure was to fill my spare bedroom with them.

Reactions: Like 1


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## LawnShrimp (Dec 20, 2017)

Chris B said:


> I'm starting my tank in winter, and don't have ready access to rotted wood. Would it be alright to order substrate from bugsincyberspace? They have a compost and oak chunk mix that sounds promising.


BiC substrate is okay but IMO it doesn't have enough wood for larger species. I've never bought the oak chunk but this will probably be fine.


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## Chris B (Dec 20, 2017)

LawnShrimp said:


> BiC substrate is okay but IMO it doesn't have enough wood for larger species. I've never bought the oak chunk but this will probably be fine.


I had a terrible revelation. I live in rural New England. I don't need to buy rotting wood. I just need to pull over and drop a log in my trunk on my way to work... But what's a good soil to use as a base for my substrate? I have compost I could use from my vermicomposter.


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## mickiem (Dec 20, 2017)

Chris B said:


> I had a terrible revelation. I live in rural New England. I don't need to buy rotting wood. I just need to pull over and drop a log in my trunk on my way to work... But what's a good soil to use as a base for my substrate? I have compost I could use from my vermicomposter.


The wood becomes the soil!  I buy organic leaf compost and mix that, the wood and cocoa fiber.  Make sure you don't pick up pine or cedar - those are not good for millipedes.  Most hardwoods are good; oak, maple, beech, hickory, birch, etc.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## LawnShrimp (Dec 21, 2017)

Chris B said:


> I had a terrible revelation. I live in rural New England. I don't need to buy rotting wood. I just need to pull over and drop a log in my trunk on my way to work... But what's a good soil to use as a base for my substrate? I have compost I could use from my vermicomposter.


I would stay away from worm castings as those little slimy suckers absorb all of the things that millipedes need. I use cocofiber as a soil base or just more leaf compost with a little soil and peat.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## mickiem (Dec 21, 2017)

Other things to stay away from (besides resinous wood like pine and cedar) are perlite, vermiculite and fertilizers of any kind.  Worms use the good stuff in substrate way faster than millipedes.


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## Chris B (Dec 21, 2017)

mickiem said:


> The wood becomes the soil!  I buy organic leaf compost and mix that, the wood and cocoa fiber.  Make sure you don't pick up pine or cedar - those are not good for millipedes.  Most hardwoods are good; oak, maple, beech, hickory, birch, etc.


Oh cool, thanks for the advice. My area is more heavily wooded by deciduous over evergreens. So I feel safe in picking something readily rotted, so long as I can identify the bark and branching patterns.


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## mickiem (Mar 18, 2018)

@Annamarie here is another thread you may be interested in.


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## Annamarie (Mar 18, 2018)

mickiem said:


> @Annamarie here is another thread you may be interested in.


Thank you!!


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## Mrwalker52 (Mar 20, 2018)

mickiem said:


> @Annamarie here is another thread you may be interested in.


Pm me your message box is full


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## mickiem (Mar 21, 2018)

Mrwalker52 said:


> Pm me your message box is full


I think I cleared enough!


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## itstracc (Jun 18, 2020)

Sorry to revive an old thread, but I feel like the information here could be useful to some newer members! 



mickiem said:


> Other things to stay away from (besides resinous wood like pine and cedar) are perlite, vermiculite and fertilizers of any kind.  Worms use the good stuff in substrate way faster than millipedes.


What's wrong with using vermiculite? I know it's commonly used with centipedes and other inverts, and I've seen several people state that they use it for their millipedes with no issues. I don't personally use it myself, but I'd love to know the reasoning for why others shouldn't!

Reactions: Helpful 1


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## Elytra and Antenna (Jun 18, 2020)

#1 I have dropped a few specimens accidentally over the years and I have been surprised that many do make it through some pretty massive cracks and bleeding.
#2 If I had a dollar for every immature I accidentally ripped in half doing basic maintenance I'd have a million more dollars.
#3 Small immatures can desiccate if the substrate isn't damp even at 100% humidity.
#4 I feel like people who suggest it's bad to sterilize substrate can't possibly have long-term experience with any individual culture, but maybe with years of short-term cultures.
#5 You can add wood pellets to depleted substrate with some success.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Arthroverts (Jun 18, 2020)

itstracc said:


> Sorry to revive an old thread, but I feel like the information here could be useful to some newer members!
> 
> 
> 
> What's wrong with using vermiculite? I know it's commonly used with centipedes and other inverts, and I've seen several people state that they use it for their millipedes with no issues. I don't personally use it myself, but I'd love to know the reasoning for why others shouldn't!


Vermiculite just isn't useful in a millipede tank; inedible, hard, unnecessary for a moisture retainer in a proper substrate, and it can adhere to the exoskeletons of the millipedes and cause problems with molting (besides just being unsightly).
I don't think it is recommended for centipedes for similar reasons. A small amount wouldn't cause problems, but there is zero need for it and its more likely to harm rather than help.

Hope I'm not mixing it up with another substrate additive, but I think that's why vermiculite isn't generally recommended.

Thanks,

Arthroverts


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## itstracc (Jun 18, 2020)

Arthroverts said:


> Vermiculite just isn't useful in a millipede tank; inedible, hard, unnecessary for a moisture retainer in a proper substrate, and it can adhere to the exoskeletons of the millipedes and cause problems with molting (besides just being unsightly).
> I don't think it is recommended for centipedes for similar reasons. A small amount wouldn't cause problems, but there is zero need for it and its more likely to harm rather than help.
> 
> Hope I'm not mixing it up with another substrate additive, but I think that's why vermiculite isn't generally recommended.
> ...


That makes sense! I'm personally going to be using aspen shavings for aeration/moisture retention in my new set up, but I've been going through old forum posts and seeing that a lot of people used vermiculite and wondered why there wasn't too much information negating it! Thank you for clarifying


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## Coradams (Jun 20, 2020)

Isopods are listed under unwnted pests.  So are they harmful to millipedes?  Or do they just compete for the organic matter?


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## itstracc (Jun 20, 2020)

Coradams said:


> Isopods are listed under unwnted pests.  So are they harmful to millipedes?  Or do they just compete for the organic matter?


Both. Isopods have been known to injure/kill molting millipedes, and will often eat millipedes eggs and sometimes even pedelings. From what I've read, dwarf purples seem to be the only isopods that could potentially be kept safely with millipedes as long as they're given enough protein, but I still wouldn't risk it personally.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Elytra and Antenna (Jun 21, 2020)

itstracc said:


> Both. Isopods have been known to injure/kill molting millipedes, and will often eat millipedes eggs and sometimes even pedelings. From what I've read, dwarf purples seem to be the only isopods that could potentially be kept safely with millipedes as long as they're given enough protein, but I still wouldn't risk it personally.


I had a huge colony of rainbows full of orange Porcellio for a decade and it's not really as bad as people seem to think. I remember mentioning a little problem with keeping them together many years ago when people were saying how great it was to keep them together and and now everybody acts like they're little sharkticons looking for milli babies to devour.


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## itstracc (Jun 21, 2020)

Elytra and Antenna said:


> I had a huge colony of rainbows full of orange Porcellio for a decade and it's not really as bad as people seem to think. I remember mentioning a little problem with keeping them together many years ago when people were saying how great it was to keep them together and and now everybody acts like they're little sharkticons looking for milli babies to devour.


I've never tried it personally, so I can't comment from experience, but I've read a few threads of people that actually _have_ had problems with isopods eating their millipede eggs and injuring their molting millipedes. I can see an issue with isopods out-competing millipedes as well when it comes to beginner keepers who don't know what they're doing, but that's not as frequently talked about. Obviously with someone more experienced such as yourself I don't see any problems with it, but unfortunately most people aren't nearly as experienced and as a result don't know what to look for or how to make sure everyone is sated. But that's along the same lines of not recommending cohabitation to beginners anyway, because there's quite a bit that could go wrong even with "easy" species. Once all of my millipedes are adults, I'll likely start keeping isopods with them, but for right now it's simply not worth the risk to me and I do think it's important to let people know of possible issues, even if they're unlikely.


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## Elytra and Antenna (Jun 21, 2020)

itstracc said:


> I've never tried it personally, so I can't comment from experience, but I've read a few threads of people that actually _have_ had problems with isopods eating their millipede eggs and injuring their molting millipedes. I can see an issue with isopods out-competing millipedes as well when it comes to beginner keepers who don't know what they're doing, but that's not as frequently talked about. Obviously with someone more experienced such as yourself I don't see any problems with it, but unfortunately most people aren't nearly as experienced and as a result don't know what to look for or how to make sure everyone is sated. But that's along the same lines of not recommending cohabitation to beginners anyway, because there's quite a bit that could go wrong even with "easy" species. Once all of my millipedes are adults, I'll likely start keeping isopods with them, but for right now it's simply not worth the risk to me and I do think it's important to let people know of possible issues, even if they're unlikely.


I think a lot of things get blamed for normal die-off and poor husbandry and while isopods are not entirely safe they are not going to eat up your millipede culture either. Nematodes and other accidental pests can be much more dangerous.

Reactions: Like 2


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## itstracc (Jun 21, 2020)

Elytra and Antenna said:


> I think a lot of things get blamed for normal die-off and poor husbandry and while isopods are not entirely safe they are not going to eat up your millipede culture either. Nematodes and other accidental pests can be much more dangerous.


I definitely agree with you there! I'm just trying to say that with people new to keeping millipedes/isopods/invertebrates/etc, it's always best to minimize risk so that they can make a more informed decision later on regarding whether or not they want to do something a bit more risky such as adding isopods or not sterilizing things before putting them in the enclosure.


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## Arthroverts (Jun 21, 2020)

Elytra and Antenna said:


> I think a lot of things get blamed for normal die-off and poor husbandry and while isopods are not entirely safe they are not going to eat up your millipede culture either. Nematodes and other accidental pests can be much more dangerous.


I do agree, but a friend of mine has lost multiple specimens due to the introduction of isopods to the enclosure (of which he keeps many species), even to the point of losing species from his collection due to them eating molting specimens and such before he noticed. Granted I don't know everything that went on, but the coincidence of the specimens starting to disappear once isopods were added seems to point to some sort of predation.

Thanks,

Arthroverts

Reactions: Like 1


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## Spideymom (Jul 6, 2020)

Arthroverts said:


> I do agree, but a friend of mine has lost multiple specimens due to the introduction of isopods to the enclosure (of which he keeps many species), even to the point of losing species from his collection due to them eating molting specimens and such before he noticed. Granted I don't know everything that went on, but the coincidence of the specimens starting to disappear once isopods were added seems to point to some sort of predation.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Arthroverts


I agree


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## Hisserdude (Jul 6, 2020)

Elytra and Antenna said:


> #4 I feel like people who suggest it's bad to sterilize substrate can't possibly have long-term experience with any individual culture, but maybe with years of short-term cultures.


I can't agree enough with this, I don't know why so many people think sterilizing substrate is so bad and that it just "destroys" the nutritional qualities or whatever...


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## Lucanus95 (Jul 6, 2020)

Hisserdude said:


> I can't agree enough with this, I don't know why so many people think sterilizing substrate is so bad and that it just "destroys" the nutritional qualities or whatever...


Amen to this. I've no problem keeping and breeding my millipedes on flake soils and sterilized leaves with supplemental food like veggies and fruits. 
On the other hand I recently lost 3/4 of my bumble bee millipede colony after I threw in some unsterilized leaves. They all got engulfed in white fungus that seems to have eaten them from inside out. Some of the ones that are still alive are lethargic so I doubt they'll make it. I'm definitely boiling everything i get from the wild after this incidence.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Sad 1


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## mickiem (Jul 7, 2020)

itstracc said:


> That makes sense! I'm personally going to be using aspen shavings for aeration/moisture retention in my new set up, but I've been going through old forum posts and seeing that a lot of people used vermiculite and wondered why there wasn't too much information negating it! Thank you for clarifying


Aspen is great for lightening the soil!  When I have helpers take care of my millies and they over saturate the enclosures, I use Aspen shreds to absorb the excess water.

As far as the vermiculite goes, I am not sure anything is terrible about it aside from cost.  Compare 2 CF Leaf Compost @ $3 to 8 qts Vermiculite at $5 and it doesn't make sense.  If there were huge benefits, then by all means use it.  But there are not.  Sometimes I look at "what's good about it" as much as "what's wrong with it".


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## mickiem (Jul 7, 2020)

Elytra and Antenna said:


> #3 Small immatures can desiccate if the substrate isn't damp even at 100% humidity.
> 
> Great point, Orin!  I think I had soil moisture in mind when I wrote that.  I read an article once about dry air vs humid air passing through spiracles and how bad it is for the millipede to breathe the dry air.  But soil moisture is the foundation to the humidity.  That's why you're my milliped hero!
> 
> ...


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## Izzard12 (Oct 20, 2021)

Arthroverts said:


> I do agree, but a friend of mine has lost multiple specimens due to the introduction of isopods to the enclosure (of which he keeps many species), even to the point of losing species from his collection due to them eating molting specimens and such before he noticed. Granted I don't know everything that went on, but the coincidence of the specimens starting to disappear once isopods were added seems to point to some sort of predation.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Arthroverts


All the info on isopods just struck a chord with something I havent been able to figure out but have been super worried about. I'm a first time owner (and have only had her for about a month and a half) and my millipede is missing pieces of a few of her legs. Its horrifying I have no idea what to do or how to help her but I havent found anything online about this... could the isopods be behind this? I was told to keep them in the soil for general cleanliness/health.... also if not the isopods than does anyone know why this could be happening?? I'm scared it's going to get worse


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## Elytra and Antenna (Oct 20, 2021)

Izzard12 said:


> All the info on isopods just struck a chord with something I havent been able to figure out but have been super worried about. I'm a first time owner (and have only had her for about a month and a half) and my millipede is missing pieces of a few of her legs. Its horrifying I have no idea what to do or how to help her but I havent found anything online about this... could the isopods be behind this? I was told to keep them in the soil for general cleanliness/health.... also if not the isopods than does anyone know why this could be happening?? I'm scared it's going to get worse


They might be responsible but sometimes you don't notice missing legs on wild specimens until later even though they were missing the whole time.


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## Izzard12 (Oct 21, 2021)

Elytra and Antenna said:


> They might be responsible but sometimes you don't notice missing legs on wild specimens until later even though they were missing the whole time.


Thanks for the reply! Unless I hadnt noticed the extent of it before, she seems to be losing more and more. (Not always whole legs sometimes just bits). And she is also trying to climb and gnaw through the air slits in the container (I have a plastic terrarium container) so I'm not sure what about the environment she is trying to escape (I know now she needs more space though shes grown to half the container size)


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