# Unknowingly bought OW???



## TarantulaObsession (Mar 22, 2015)

So, here I am at a shop, looking at their variety of tarantulas.  I asked for a GBB and Golden Knee, the guy went to the back and brought out two tarantulas. One was marked C. Cyan and the other Chaco Gold. Clearly, there were ts in the little vials but I didn't bother to actually look at them and they were nice and cozy in there so, it was hard to see them. However, when I got home, I was putting them each in a temp tank to make it easier for me to get them in their new homes. (I know that isn't advised but the vials were too small and I didn't want to poke at the new additions and upset them more than they already were so, I just set their vials down in the temp and they eventually walked out). While doing this, I noticed something obviously wasn't right. These are the ts I got..
	

		
			
		

		
	





So, I'm not sure what the first one is but the second is clearly a P. subfusca.  I couldn't get very good photos because they were faster than me and I was in total shock. Mentally and physically freaking out. 
Can someone help me identify the first? It has a little bump in it's back which leads me to believe it's some sort of horned t but like I said, I'm unsure.  
I put them both back into the vials they came in because I don't have the proper set up for either of them as I was expecting a GBB and Golden Knee. 
I have all beginner ts, three G. Roseas, a B. Smithi, a B. Albo, and an A. Avic.  I don't know how to care for these guys! Any advise would be absolutely fantastic!


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## lalberts9310 (Mar 22, 2015)

I would return those Ts and tell the LPS employee that he gave the wrong ones... g.roseas, b.smithis, b.albo and a.avic are not species that could possibly prep you for an OW, especially a poeic. Gbb would have been a great specie to advance, but I personally think you'll have your hands full with OWs now..

Reactions: Like 1


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## TarantulaObsession (Mar 22, 2015)

lalberts9310 said:


> I would return those Ts and tell the LPS employee that he gave the wrong ones... g.roseas, b.smithis, b.albo and a.avic are not species that could possibly prep you for an OW, especially a poeic. Gbb would have been a great specie to advance, but I personally think you'll have your hands full with OWs now..


I really wish returning them was an option. I was taking a friend somewhere and the little shop caught my eye. Its four hours from where I live and I don't have that kind of time on my hands all the time nor will I have it any time soon.


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## Ellenantula (Mar 22, 2015)

lalberts9310 said:


> I would return those Ts and tell the LPS employee that he gave the wrong ones... g.roseas, b.smithis, b.albo and a.avic are not species that could possibly prep you for an OW, especially a poeic. Gbb would have been a great specie to advance, but I personally think you'll have your hands full with OWs now..


Lolla -- isn't that what happened to you?  Didn't you end up with a crash course sink-or-swim with pokies or something?
I thought of you when I saw this thread, and hoped you might advise.
(But I may have remembered wrong poster)


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## King Sparta (Mar 22, 2015)

If you absolutely cannot return or give them to another EXPERIENCED hobbyists, know this: the Pokie is definitely fast and like lalberts said, you are just not ready. If keeping 
them is unavoidable, the Pokie is an arboreal species meaning that it needs a tall enclosure. Sort of like your a. avic. anyways, I would hand it to someone else. If you are just a beginner, these you DEFINITELY do not want. Defensive, lightning fast and medically significant. Personally, I have no idea what the first one is as I am not good with OWs but 
the second is definitely a Pokie.
Very unfortunate

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## lalberts9310 (Mar 22, 2015)

Just for the Ts safety, your safety, and the people living with you.. just gain a tad more experience before diving into OW. I personally think you are ready for NW tropical terrestrials and maybe some NW aboreal such as P. Cambridgei.. great bridging species that will prep you well for OW. You have enough experience under your belt with NW terrestrials to advance to NW tropical terrestrials, and NW aboreal such as a P. Cambridgei.. well in my book at least

---------- Post added 03-23-2015 at 03:00 AM ----------




AlanaMarie said:


> I really wish returning them was an option. I was taking a friend somewhere and the little shop caught my eye. Its four hours from where I live and I don't have that kind of time on my hands all the time nor will I have it any time soon.


Next time you should really check the vials, some LPS employees just.. darn, they make me mad..

---------- Post added 03-23-2015 at 03:01 AM ----------




Ellenantula said:


> Lolla -- isn't that what happened to you?  Didn't you end up with a crash course sink-or-swim with pokies or something?
> I thought of you when I saw this thread, and hoped you might advise.
> (But I may have remembered wrong poster)


Hahahaha nooooo no wasn't me, I had a P. Irminia for a first T yes?

I kept the T, all turned out well, but this ranges from individual to individual and I can take these kind of risks because I don't have children or friends living with me, just a husband that loves Ts as much as I do

---------- Post added 03-23-2015 at 03:03 AM ----------

I really don't know what to advice if you can't return/sell them


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## TarantulaObsession (Mar 22, 2015)

I live in a very small town. The local pet shop never has tarantulas and if I sold them to her, she'd probably kill them or lose them. As for giving them to someone with more experience, I know no one who could take them off my hands. Everyone I know squeals at the sight of a Roach and refuses to step foot in my house. 
Would someone be able to help me out on how to properly care for them? I know absolutely nothing about OWs. This whole time I've been dreaming of slowly easing my way to getting a P. Metallica but never expected to get in OW in such a shitty way. My only option seems to be to keep them and try my best with them.


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## Blueandbluer (Mar 22, 2015)

You could probadly sell them here...


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## miss moxie (Mar 22, 2015)

I hate to be 'that person' but something smells fishy. Perhaps something has gone rotten in the state of Denmark?

Reactions: Like 1 | Award 1


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## Blueandbluer (Mar 22, 2015)

miss moxie said:


> I hate to be 'that person' but something smells fishy. Perhaps something has gone rotten in the state of Denmark?


Another troll thread you mean?


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## lalberts9310 (Mar 22, 2015)

miss moxie said:


> I hate to be 'that person' but something smells fishy. Perhaps something has gone rotten in the state of Denmark?


Don't worry, I smell that to..


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## King Sparta (Mar 22, 2015)

Blueandbluer said:


> Another troll thread you mean?


What do you mean???


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## miss moxie (Mar 22, 2015)

Blueandbluer said:


> Another troll thread you mean?





lalberts9310 said:


> Don't worry, I smell that to..


No. A newbie who wants the fast track but doesn't want to admit that she knowingly bought OWs so is passing it off as an accident to rid herself of the 'fire and brimstone' that comes to those who jump from rosies & avics to pokies and Ceratogyrus is what I'm suggesting.

I could be wrong, I've been wrong before. I'm just not sure how that pokie is obviously a subfusca. Pokies at that age generally look pretty similar, especially to an untrained eye or a newbie.

Reactions: Like 3


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## King Sparta (Mar 22, 2015)

hmmm... Definitely possible but quite evil. But what do you mean in the state of denmark???


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## theconmacieist (Mar 22, 2015)

miss moxie said:


> No. A newbie who wants the fast track but doesn't want to admit that she knowingly bought OWs so is passing it off as an accident to rid herself of the 'fire and brimstone' that comes to those who jump from rosies & avics to pokies and Ceratogyrus is what I'm suggesting.


 First thing that came to mind as well. It is sad having no faith in humanity...


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## miss moxie (Mar 22, 2015)

AlanaMarie said:


> Mentally and physically freaking out.


This is part of the proof that you are not ready. Advertise them on AB or tell your parents that you have highly venomous spiders and you need to return them to the pet store you bought them from. You realize these tarantulas can kill your pet rabbits, right? 



AlanaMarie said:


> My only option seems to be to keep them and try my best with them.


This is not your only option, and is probably the absolute worst option. Well no, I can think of worse options. Like killing them, or letting them loose in the backyard.


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## IHeartTs (Mar 22, 2015)

First one looks like some type of baboon. I'd sell them on here. This is def a sink or swim with cinder blocks on your ankles case.


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## lalberts9310 (Mar 22, 2015)

miss moxie said:


> No. A newbie who wants the fast track but doesn't want to admit that she knowingly bought OWs so is passing it off as an accident to rid herself of the 'fire and brimstone' that comes to those who jump from rosies & avics to pokies and Ceratogyrus is what I'm suggesting.
> 
> I could be wrong, I've been wrong before. I'm just not sure how that pokie is obviously a subfusca. Pokies at that age generally look pretty similar, especially to an untrained eye or a newbie.


Yes well I already had a heated debate today, and for the sake of preventing me from suffering more haemorrhages I didn't make that.. well how can I put it.. darn it.. I didn't put that thought into comment.. lol


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## miss moxie (Mar 22, 2015)

King Sparta said:


> hmmm... Definitely possible but quite evil. But what do you mean in the state of denmark???


Oh gosh.

It is from the play Hamlet, and has become an idiom for 'something isn't right' 'something is corrupt'.

Reactions: Like 3


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## IHeartTs (Mar 22, 2015)

miss moxie said:


> This is part of the proof that you are not ready. Advertise them on AB or tell your parents that you have highly venomous spiders and you need to return them to the pet store you bought them from. You realize these tarantulas can kill your pet rabbits, right?
> 
> 
> 
> This is not your only option, and is probably the absolute worst option. Well no, I can think of worse options. Like killing them, or letting them loose in the backyard.


+100. They can be easily sold on here. OP, If that is subfusca you do realize husbandry for highland and lowland are different right?


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## TarantulaObsession (Mar 22, 2015)

miss moxie said:


> No. A newbie who wants the fast track but doesn't want to admit that she knowingly bought OWs so is passing it off as an accident to rid herself of the 'fire and brimstone' that comes to those who jump from rosies & avics to pokies and Ceratogyrus is what I'm suggesting.
> 
> I could be wrong, I've been wrong before. I'm just not sure how that pokie is obviously a subfusca. Pokies at that age generally look pretty similar, especially to an untrained eye or a newbie.


You are 100% incorrect. I wouldn't buy OWs when I don't even have much experience with beginner tarantulas.  
I may be wrong about the P. Subfusca, I had no idea that they all look similar at this stage. All I know is that the markings are similar to a P. Subfusca. Anyone who would risk a Ts life like that is insane. I'm sure people actually do this but I didn't. You don't have to believe me, I just need to know what to do with these unwanted ts.

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## Blueandbluer (Mar 22, 2015)

I see. OP, you do seem to be making a lot of excuses why you can't manage to get rid of them. I dearly hope they're not correct... Not that you'd likely admit it if they are. 

I really really do not understand the drive of some people to get these OWs. Go watch some bite reports instead.


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## Ellenantula (Mar 22, 2015)

lalberts9310 said:


> Hahahaha nooooo no wasn't me, I had a P. Irminia for a first T yes?  I kept the T, all turned out well, but this ranges from individual to individual and I can take these kind of risks because I don't have children or friends living with me, just a husband that loves Ts as much as I do


Yes -- it was you!  I just didn't member the correct T:  Psalmi/pokie -- I was new and just didn't differentiate them well.


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## Dave Marschang (Mar 22, 2015)

how much did you pay for them? and how much would you sell them for?


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## King Sparta (Mar 22, 2015)

Hmmm... Dont exactly see how those can be mixed up with GBB and Chacos. Quite specific species by look. Could be very possible a troll thread. But if it was the truth, just be 
very careful of your fingers and keep them more like your a avic.
I usually like to have a little faith in people.
(until they are proven a lie)
So good luck. 
Very unfortunate if it was what you described

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## lalberts9310 (Mar 22, 2015)

Ellenantula said:


> Yes -- it was you!  I just didn't member the correct T:  Psalmi/pokie -- I was new and just didn't differentiate them well.


Guilty as charged


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## miss moxie (Mar 22, 2015)

god61021 said:


> how much did you pay for them? and how much would you sell them for?


She probably won't have much luck packing them. What she should do is find someone in Arizona who can take them and is willing to drive an hour or a few to help her out.

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## 14pokies (Mar 22, 2015)

YAY another get rid of your spiders thread..I haven't seen one of these in a while! ( what are we trying to do chase away all the serious collectors) droll droll droll... Its all useless fodder the op is likely keeping her Ts...

First one looks like P.lugardi but could be ceratogyrus marshalli or darlingi if it has a horn like you say...which way does the horn point, Up or does it tilt back? 

Can you get a better pic of the poec? Better light and a dorsal view? It looks more like a young formosa to me but the pics are terrible so I'm not sure.

How do you guys expect her to pack these things up to ship or sell or rehome?? If she can do that then she can clearly do rehouses and tank maintenance..she screwed up either way (purposely or not)... Why not help her out.

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## King Sparta (Mar 22, 2015)

miss moxie said:


> Oh gosh.
> 
> It is from the play Hamlet, and has become an idiom for 'something isn't right' 'something is corrupt'.


ok. I just got confused for 2 reasons: 
I dont read shakespear
and something IS wrong in the state of denmark. A stupid new import law.

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## 14pokies (Mar 22, 2015)

King Sparta said:


> ok. I just got confused for 2 reasons:
> I dont read shakespear
> and something IS wrong in the state of denmark. A stupid new import law.


I love this kid...

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## King Sparta (Mar 22, 2015)

Anyways... advertise for sale on AB. I would NOT keep them just due to your inexperience. If you still want them, a solution will be give them to a breeder and ask them to raise
them for u for a while. Some will do this. When you are more experienced, go get them back. Purpose or not, this is just what the situation is

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## miss moxie (Mar 22, 2015)

14pokies said:


> How do you guys expect her to pack these things up to ship or sell or rehome?? If she can do that then she can clearly do rehouses and tank maintenance..she screwed up either way (purposely or not)... Why not help her out.


As you will see, I mentioned she won't have much luck packaging them.

OP said they are faster than her and she is mentally freaking out. I don't know what could be more helpful than telling her to advertise them for pick up in Arizona, or explaining to her parents that she has some seriously venomous tarantulas and have them drive her the four hours back to the pet store.

She has more to consider than just what she wants to do. She has her parents to consider, any siblings she might have, and the other animals in her house. As a sixteen year old, the decision to bring harmful animals into her house is not hers. It's her parents or her guardians, whoever she lives with.

But hey. Maybe she's emancipated and lives all by herself with those pets she has listed in her profile.

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## TarantulaObsession (Mar 22, 2015)

I don't recall saying I couldn't advertise them on here, I have no problem with that but how would I pack them? 
I paid a little over 50 all together. 
I'm sorry if it seems as though I'm lying or making up excuses but I figured I'd turn to AB to see if someone could help me out. If someone here does live in Arizona, I'd gladly drive an hour or so to GIVE, not sell, but give them to someone who could properly care for them. As much as I'd love to keep these two little ones, I know there's a very slim chance of me being able to care for them.

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## Ellenantula (Mar 22, 2015)

King Sparta said:


> I usually like to have a little faith in people.
> (until they are proven a lie)
> So good luck.


Agreed.  OP has posted before, always appeared very open and honest -- I think OP is one with younger brother who accidentally let a T out once that had to located.  
Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty.
I worry we are going to lose people with these snap judgements.
If you doubt someone, maybe research privately, ask a few "telling" sort of questions, PM others for additional input.
I would have to travel far for T purchases myself, if I got wrong Ts, it would not be easy for me to return either.
Or package them to ship them to someone.

I'd rather be fooled a couple times than view the world in such a jaded way.

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## IHeartTs (Mar 22, 2015)

14pokies said:


> YAY another get rid of your spiders thread..I haven't seen one of these in a while! ( what are we trying to do chase away all the serious collectors) droll droll droll... Its all useless fodder the op is likely keeping her Ts...
> 
> First one looks like P.lugardi but could be ceratogyrus marshalli or darlingi if it has a horn like you say...which way does the horn point, Up or does it tilt back?
> 
> ...


Well if someone in Arizona could take them, it's better. But I think she'd need an ID on them first for anyone to help lol. I could def see formosa. If it's lugardi, she's lucky for 2 reasons. 1 it's freaking lugardi 2 they're not too defensive.

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## King Sparta (Mar 22, 2015)

Well, I hope it works out.
Cz if it doesn't you have a disaster on your hands


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## miss moxie (Mar 22, 2015)

AlanaMarie said:


> I don't recall saying I couldn't advertise them on here, I have no problem with that but how would I pack them?
> I paid a little over 50 all together.
> I'm sorry if it seems as though I'm lying or making up excuses but I figured I'd turn to AB to see if someone could help me out. If someone here does live in Arizona, I'd gladly drive an hour or so to GIVE, not sell, but give them to someone who could properly care for them. As much as I'd love to keep these two little ones, I know there's a very slim chance of me being able to care for them.


Good, yes. This makes sense. What I would do is go to the classifieds, and make an advertisement explaining your situation and tell them that they are available for pick up, or you will drive at least one hour out to meet them. So if they live two hours away, you meet in the middle. If they live three, they drive two hours to a spot that is an hour away-- give and take since not all roads are perfect lines if that makes sense.

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## TarantulaObsession (Mar 22, 2015)

14pokies said:


> YAY another get rid of your spiders thread..I haven't seen one of these in a while! ( what are we trying to do chase away all the serious collectors) droll droll droll... Its all useless fodder the op is likely keeping her Ts...
> 
> First one looks like P.lugardi but could be ceratogyrus marshalli or darlingi if it has a horn like you say...which way does the horn point, Up or does it tilt back?
> 
> ...


I'm actually leaning more towards getting rid of them. Thank you for actually trying to help me. 
I can't get a better picture because I'm actually quite terrified of even picking up the vials, as awful as that sounds. I almost lost the unidentified one due it's speed. From what I saw, it just looked like a little bump pointing upward, it may be tilted back, I have no idea. Honestly, there may not even be a bump, I saw the t for a little under a minute before it darted to a different spot.


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## 14pokies (Mar 22, 2015)

AlanaMarie said:


> I don't recall saying I couldn't advertise them on here, I have no problem with that but how would I pack them?
> I paid a little over 50 all together.
> I'm sorry if it seems as though I'm lying or making up excuses but I figured I'd turn to AB to see if someone could help me out. If someone here does live in Arizona, I'd gladly drive an hour or so to GIVE, not sell, but give them to someone who could properly care for them. As much as I'd love to keep these two little ones, I know there's a very slim chance of me being able to care for them.


While your figuring out what your doin wet that poecs substrate and mist one wall of the enclosure so she can drink.. You can do that with the lid on..


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## IHeartTs (Mar 22, 2015)

AlanaMarie said:


> I don't recall saying I couldn't advertise them on here, I have no problem with that but how would I pack them?
> I paid a little over 50 all together.
> I'm sorry if it seems as though I'm lying or making up excuses but I figured I'd turn to AB to see if someone could help me out. If someone here does live in Arizona, I'd gladly drive an hour or so to GIVE, not sell, but give them to someone who could properly care for them. As much as I'd love to keep these two little ones, I know there's a very slim chance of me being able to care for them.


I'm sure there's someone near you who'd be willing to help you out. You're gonna need IDs for the time being though so you can care for them. You're probably not gonna be able to pack them. Poecs really like to run and hide. I agree with moxie though on talking to your parents.... they can probably help you find them a home or take them back to th shop.


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## miss moxie (Mar 22, 2015)

IHeartTs said:


> Well if someone in Arizona could take them, it's better. But I think she'd need an ID on them first for anyone to help lol. I could def see formosa. If it's lugardi, she's lucky for 2 reasons. 1 it's freaking lugardi 2 they're not too defensive.


Eh, I'd disagree. Even without an ID they're better off in the hands of someone with OW experience, you know what I mean? 

And all pokies are pretty much the same care wise. It's only the mystery terrestrial that would be a bit of a bother.

Edit: Oh, you mean for her to care for them in the mean time she'll need an ID on the mystery terrestrial.


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## TarantulaObsession (Mar 22, 2015)

Ellenantula said:


> Agreed.  OP has posted before, always appeared very open and honest -- I think OP is one with younger brother who accidentally let a T out once that had to located.
> Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty.
> I worry we are going to lose people with these snap judgements.
> If you doubt someone, maybe research privately, ask a few "telling" sort of questions, PM others for additional input.
> ...


Yep, that is definitely me, just so you know.


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## 14pokies (Mar 22, 2015)

AlanaMarie said:


> I'm actually leaning more towards getting rid of them. Thank you for actually trying to help me.
> I can't get a better picture because I'm actually quite terrified of even picking up the vials, as awful as that sounds. I almost lost the unidentified one due it's speed. From what I saw, it just looked like a little bump pointing upward, it may be tilted back, I have no idea. Honestly, there may not even be a bump, I saw the t for a little under a minute before it darted to a different spot.


Just calm down... Freaking out isn't helping you..


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## IHeartTs (Mar 22, 2015)

miss moxie said:


> Eh, I'd disagree. Even without an ID they're better off in the hands of someone with OW experience, you know what I mean?
> 
> And all pokies are pretty much the same care wise. It's only the mystery terrestrial that would be a bit of a bother.
> 
> Edit: Oh, you mean for her to care for them in the mean time she'll need an ID on the mystery terrestrial.


Haha yes. And the poec just because subfusca highland like it a little cooler. They live in a place that looks like friggin Washington. No sun, all fog. I would never encourage her keeping them, oh god thatd be irresponsible advice Lol


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## King Sparta (Mar 22, 2015)

in the meantime, try your best to not lose them. Believe me, the LAST thing you want is a highly venomous and defensive T loose in the house.
But good luck.

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## miss moxie (Mar 22, 2015)

IHeartTs said:


> Haha yes. And the poec just because subfusca highland like it a little cooler. They live in a place that looks like friggin Washington. No sun, all fog. I would never encourage her keeping them, oh god thatd be irresponsible advice Lol


Oh no, no no- that's not what I thought you were getting at. I thought you were saying 'she'll need to ID them before someone can take them'. 

Haha, I know you're not the sort of person who would recommend a 16 year old newbie with 3 beginner Ts keep a pokie and a mystery OW terrestrial.


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## TarantulaObsession (Mar 22, 2015)

14pokies said:


> While your figuring out what your doin wet that poecs substrate and mist one wall of the enclosure so she can drink.. You can do that with the lid on..


I was able to get them back in the vials so, that's where they are at the moment. The poecs vial is about 1.5 in wide and 5in tall and the others is about 2in wide and 4in tall. Should I just put a couple drops of water in the poecs? They seem to stay in there rather than darting out.

---------- Post added 03-22-2015 at 07:40 PM ----------

I really appreciate the turn this took from the accusations. However, I just remembered that Ken the bug guys shop is about an hour and a half from me, would it be a good idea to just take them over there? I'm off tomorrow so, I could take them tomorrow.

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## 14pokies (Mar 22, 2015)

AlanaMarie said:


> I was able to get them back in the vials so, that's where they are at the moment. The poecs vial is about 1.5 in wide and 5in tall and the others is about 2in wide and 4in tall. Should I just put a couple drops of water in the poecs? They seem to stay in there rather than darting out.
> 
> ---------- Post added 03-22-2015 at 07:40 PM ----------
> 
> I really appreciate the turn this took from the accusations. However, I just remembered that Ken the bug guys shop is about an hour and a half from me, would it be a good idea to just take them over there? I'm off tomorrow so, I could take them tomorrow.


Ya just a few drops if you feel you can safely do it... and YES try to work out a trade!

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## IHeartTs (Mar 22, 2015)

miss moxie said:


> Oh no, no no- that's not what I thought you were getting at. I thought you were saying 'she'll need to ID them before someone can take them'.
> 
> Haha, I know you're not the sort of person who would recommend a 16 year old newbie with 3 beginner Ts keep a pokie and a mystery OW terrestrial.


Ohhhh no. That doesn't even make sense lolololol. Yeah def not. Not even a 49 year old beginner. Walk before you run, you'll trip less. On the plus side, chasing pokies is a good work out lol. 
OP. try and stay calm when dealing with them. I hope you find them a home!


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## miss moxie (Mar 22, 2015)

14pokies said:


> Ya just a few drops if you feel you can safely do it... and YES try to work out a trade!


+10 I agree with this. Maybe you can get an actual GBB and Chaco. Both are great tarantulas.

---------- Post added 03-22-2015 at 10:45 PM ----------




IHeartTs said:


> Ohhhh no. That doesn't even make sense lolololol.


I was a little confused, I'm not gonna lie. Haha, I blame not enough sleep.

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## 14pokies (Mar 22, 2015)

miss moxie said:


> +10 I agree with this. Maybe you can get an actual GBB and Chaco. Both are great tarantulas.


Somehow she will end up with a violaceopes and muticus...

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## miss moxie (Mar 22, 2015)

14pokies said:


> Somehow she will end up with a violaceopes and muticus...


"ABSOLUTELY NOT, TAKE THEM BACK, ACCIDENT? SURE. I BET IT WAS!"

Jokes aside, I'm really hoping Ken knows better than a pet store.


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## 14pokies (Mar 22, 2015)

miss moxie said:


> "ABSOLUTELY NOT, TAKE THEM BACK, ACCIDENT? SURE. I BET IT WAS!"
> 
> Jokes aside, I'm really hoping Ken knows better than a pet store.


At least with those 2 you have to diggem up to tick them off!


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## IHeartTs (Mar 22, 2015)

AlanaMarie said:


> I was able to get them back in the vials so, that's where they are at the moment. The poecs vial is about 1.5 in wide and 5in tall and the others is about 2in wide and 4in tall. Should I just put a couple drops of water in the poecs? They seem to stay in there rather than darting out.
> 
> ---------- Post added 03-22-2015 at 07:40 PM ----------
> 
> I really appreciate the turn this took from the accusations. However, I just remembered that Ken the bug guys shop is about an hour and a half from me, would it be a good idea to just take them over there? I'm off tomorrow so, I could take them tomorrow.


Thats a phenomenal idea!

---------- Post added 03-22-2015 at 09:51 PM ----------




miss moxie said:


> +10 I agree with this. Maybe you can get an actual GBB and Chaco. Both are great tarantulas.
> 
> ---------- Post added 03-22-2015 at 10:45 PM ----------
> 
> ...


I forget what sleep is sometimes so I'm with you on that.


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## miss moxie (Mar 22, 2015)

14pokies said:


> At least with those 2 you have to diggem up to tick them off!


Wrong again. OBTs live in a constant state of ticked off.

Edit: whoops you said muticus not murinus. HAH. I'm closing my laptop and going to bed.

Reactions: Like 1


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## IHeartTs (Mar 22, 2015)

14pokies said:


> Somehow she will end up with a violaceopes and muticus...


This is hilarious. Well it looks blue.... I'm sure the orange abdomen will come in at some point give it time! 8 inches of growth later....

---------- Post added 03-22-2015 at 09:53 PM ----------




miss moxie said:


> Wrong again. OBTs live in a constant state of ticked off.
> 
> Edit: whoops you said muticus not murinus. HAH. I'm closing my laptop and going to bed.


I think you should go to sleep now.... lol

Reactions: Like 1


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## cold blood (Mar 22, 2015)

miss moxie said:


> She probably won't have much luck packing them. What she should do is find someone in Arizona who can take them and is willing to drive an hour or a few to help her out.





14pokies said:


> First one looks like P.lugardi but could be ceratogyrus marshalli or darlingi if it has a horn like you say...which way does the horn point, Up or does it tilt back?
> 
> How do you guys expect her to pack these things up to ship or sell or rehome?? If she can do that then she can clearly do rehouses and tank maintenance..she screwed up either way (purposely or not)... Why not help her out.


I agree with both, she isn't in a position to pack them for shipping, luckily there's a good deal of t people in AZ to help out.   $50 for both is a good deal, I bet the LPS wouldn't have been happy with that mixup.   Did I miss the sizes?   They don't look too big, the terrestrial probably isn't large enough to show much of a horn at that size, at least not enough to differentiate between darlingi and marshalli or another horned beast.

I'd at least call the LPS and inform them of their mistake so they can have someone go through their stock and make sure this isn't happening to others.  Many t's bought at an LPS are impulse buys, and most of those people wouldn't realize the mistake and just end up in trouble. 

This is yet another in the long line of examples as to why one should NEVER trust an LPS when it comes to t's.  Its truly amazing just how bad they typically are with spiders.

Reactions: Like 2


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## TarantulaObsession (Mar 22, 2015)

Thanks for the help with this. For now, they will stay in their vials and hopefully Ken is willing to work something out.

Reactions: Like 2


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## 14pokies (Mar 22, 2015)

IHeartTs said:


> This is hilarious. Well it looks blue.... I'm sure the orange abdomen will come in at some point give it time! 8 inches of growth later....
> 
> ---------- Post added 03-22-2015 at 09:53 PM ----------
> 
> ...


But Mom there friendly...see Mumsy they waive at me every time I open there cage... look now there smiling at me! My my !What big fangs you have!


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## Dave Marschang (Mar 22, 2015)

LPS are horrible with everything but parakeets and hamsters and ill bet folks on those threads hate em as much as this one lol.
I once had the pleasure of being offered an "Orion Box Turtle" that "came from china, liked cool temps, and 2-3" of water in its tank."
That poor ornate box turtle was miserable. (for you non-reptile folks, an ornate box turtle is a land turtle that lives in the warm dry prairies and cow pastures of Iowa)


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## miss moxie (Mar 22, 2015)

14pokies said:


> But Mom there friendly...see Mumsy they waive at me every time I open there cage... look now there smiling at me! My my !What big fangs you have!


"Awww look, it wants to kiss my fingers! Kissy kiss!"


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## iligin (Mar 22, 2015)

Yikes, this whole thing is a mess. Good luck, I hope Ken works something out with you and you get what you wanted, GBB's are so cool.


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## IHeartTs (Mar 22, 2015)

14pokies said:


> But Mom there friendly...see Mumsy they waive at me every time I open there cage... look now there smiling at me! My my !What big fangs you have!


Its waving. Bahahahahaha. Mom It likes me! I'm letting it live under my bed. It likes it under there!

Reactions: Like 1


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## TarantulaObsession (Mar 22, 2015)

cold blood said:


> I agree with both, she isn't in a position to pack them for shipping, luckily there's a good deal of t people in AZ to help out.   $50 for both is a good deal, I bet the LPS wouldn't have been happy with that mixup.   Did I miss the sizes?   They don't look too big, the terrestrial probably isn't large enough to show much of a horn at that size, at least not enough to differentiate between darlingi and marshalli or another horned beast.
> 
> I'd at least call the LPS and inform them of their mistake so they can have someone go through their stock and make sure this isn't happening to others.  Many t's bought at an LPS are impulse buys, and most of those people wouldn't realize the mistake and just end up in trouble.
> 
> This is yet another in the long line of examples as to why one should NEVER trust an LPS when it comes to t's.  Its truly amazing just how bad they typically are with spiders.


I suppose you could call me clueless, I didn't know LPS have a rep for things like this but it could be considered common sense. 
They're both about an inch to an inch and a half. As I said before, I think I saw a bump but there may not be one at all. I was extremely shaky and I wasn't wearing my glasses at the time.
 I did call them and when they looked into it, they realized every single one of their ts are marked incorrectly. They actually had an OBT marked as a rose hair which made the owner laugh at the idea of a newbie trying to purchase what most like to call the ultimate beginner and getting "the most dreaded T of all time"... personally, I didn't find that very funny. He's saying that his new employee marked all the ts and royally messed it all up.


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## Poec54 (Mar 22, 2015)

AlanaMarie said:


> I was able to get them back in the vials so, that's where they are at the moment. The poecs vial is about 1.5 in wide and 5in tall and the others is about 2in wide and 4in tall. Should I just put a couple drops of water in the poecs? They seem to stay in there rather than darting out.
> 
> ---------- Post added 03-22-2015 at 07:40 PM ----------
> 
> I really appreciate the turn this took from the accusations. However, I just remembered that Ken the bug guys shop is about an hour and a half from me, would it be a good idea to just take them over there? I'm off tomorrow so, I could take them tomorrow.


Good plan.  There's plenty of time for OW's later.  Enjoy the calmer ones now, and take it from there.  It's best to work your way up in stages and gradually get used to fast/defensive species.  No point in being stressed out every time you work with a spider.  You're doing the right thing, for yourself, your family, and the hobby.  Thank you.

Reactions: Like 2


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## IHeartTs (Mar 22, 2015)

AlanaMarie said:


> I suppose you could call me clueless, I didn't know LPS have a rep for things like this but it could be considered common sense.
> They're both about an inch to an inch and a half. As I said before, I think I saw a bump but there may not be one at all. I was extremely shaky and I wasn't wearing my glasses at the time.
> I did call them and when they looked into it, they realized every single one of their ts are marked incorrectly. They actually had an OBT marked as a rose hair which made the owner laugh at the idea of a newbie trying to purchase what most like to call the ultimate beginner and getting "the most dreaded T of all time"... personally, I didn't find that very funny. He's saying that his new employee marked all the ts and royally messed it all up.


......... he laughed??? Sooo hilarious. He won't be laughing when he loses money because a newbie gets bit by something and tarantulas get banned. Glad you called them. Holy crap.


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## cold blood (Mar 23, 2015)

AlanaMarie said:


> I did call them and when they looked into it, they realized every single one of their ts are marked incorrectly. They actually had an OBT marked as a rose hair


Seeing as the owner likely purchased the stock, was he able to give you an idea as to what species they might be?


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## Dave Marschang (Mar 23, 2015)

I find the "new employee labeled them wrong" excuse pretty weak, my guess is the store manager doesn't even know what they do or don't have.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Poec54 (Mar 23, 2015)

IHeartTs said:


> ......... he laughed??? Sooo hilarious. He won't be laughing when he loses money because a newbie gets bit by something and tarantulas get banned.


His bigger concern should be a lawsuit.  What if someone bought a supposed calm spider and it turned out to be an OBT?


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## TarantulaObsession (Mar 23, 2015)

cold blood said:


> Seeing as the owner likely purchased the stock, was he able to give you an idea as to what species they might be?


Actually, yes! He said judging by the pattern in the mix up, they are most likely a C. Marshalli and a P. Ornata but he also said I should not take his word as the certain species.

Reactions: Like 1


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## cold blood (Mar 23, 2015)

AlanaMarie said:


> Actually, yes! He said judging by the pattern in the mix up, they are most likely a C. Marshalli and a P. Ornata but he also said I should not take his word as the certain species.


Well, at least that's a starting point.


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## lalberts9310 (Mar 23, 2015)

King Sparta said:


> ok. I just got confused for 2 reasons:
> I dont read shakespear
> and something IS wrong in the state of denmark. A stupid new import law.


Ahahahahahahaha! This was amusing lol

---------- Post added 03-23-2015 at 06:44 AM ----------

Maybe he'll trade you for them with the original species you intended to buy? I'm glad you got them in the vials tough, good luck with the rest and hope you manage to find a suitable solution.


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## Angel Minkov (Mar 23, 2015)

Why are you all so jumpy? A 1'' Pokie wont eat or kill him. I'm in the same boat as you guys and dont support buying dangerous species carelessly, but for the love of the new members - be more gentle. 

Good decision, OP. You can get a GBB, P. irminia or a Tapinauchenius spp. if you want to enjoy something fast, but lacking strong venom.


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## BobGrill (Mar 23, 2015)

Angel Minkov said:


> Why are you all so jumpy? A 1'' Pokie wont eat or kill him. I'm in the same boat as you guys and dont support buying dangerous species carelessly, but for the love of the new members - be more gentle.
> 
> Good decision, OP. You can get a GBB, P. irminia or a Tapinauchenius spp. if you want to enjoy something fast, but lacking strong venom.


Um...... Him??


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## Angel Minkov (Mar 23, 2015)

Him, her, whatever.


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## Poec54 (Mar 23, 2015)

Angel Minkov said:


> Why are you all so jumpy? A 1'' Pokie wont eat or kill him.


No, but they grow very fast (males mature in a year).  Most people's skills won't grow at the same pace, so what was an inoffensive spiderling can soon be something they're afraid of.

Reactions: Like 2


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## cold blood (Mar 23, 2015)

Angel Minkov said:


> Why are you all so jumpy? A 1'' Pokie wont eat or kill him. I'm in the same boat as you guys and dont support buying dangerous species carelessly, but for the love of the new members - be more gentle.


No, but it will certainly grow quickly.  Just because its not a problem at the moment, doesn't mean it won't become one in the not too distant future.

Being supportive and showing love for new members means giving the best advice you can, not telling the person what you think they want to hear.  The truth is the best way to show love and support.  If I ask a question or for advice, I want honest, truthful answers, not someone trying to blow smoke up my backside under the guise of support and love for the fellow man.

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## Poec54 (Mar 23, 2015)

cold blood said:


> No, but it will certainly grow quickly.  Just because its not a problem at the moment, doesn't mean it won't become one in the not too distant future.
> 
> Being supportive and showing love for new members means giving the best advice you can, not telling the person what you think they want to hear.  The truth is the best way to show love and support.  If I ask a question or for advice, I want honest, truthful answers, not someone trying to blow smoke up my backside under the guise of support and love for the fellow man.



And the 'smoke lovers' are the ones that leave in a huff.  It doesn't do anyone any good to reinforce bad decisions and bad ideas.  Honesty is infinitely better.  If you need to hear things in a sweet motherly voice, I don't know how you make it through the day, because the world just isn't that way.

Reactions: Like 1


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## cold blood (Mar 23, 2015)

Poec54 said:


> If you need to hear things in a sweet motherly voice


That's the thing, people can read posts and put whatever inflection, attitude or voice to the post.  We can only write the words, we can't read it for you, the inflection, the voice and attitude all come from how the reader reads it and personally perceives it...I wish some people would just read posts in their grandmother's sweet loving voice, it might take the defensiveness out of some people's perceptions and over-reactions.


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## Blueandbluer (Mar 23, 2015)

cold blood said:


> I wish some people would just read posts in their grandmother's sweet loving voice


You clearly didn't know my grandmother, :laugh:

On the serious side, I'm very much in the middle on this debate. I also tend not to sugarcoat and very much speak my mind, as some of you may have noticed. That said, I have DEFINITELY seen cases where a line was crossed from informational to either dismissive or abusive, and I've only been here a week. 

There is a middle ground between coddling people and attacking them. Sometimes we make that mark, but I've also seen us miss it.  I remember reading something at one point that rings true here. Those that claim to be "brutally honest" sometimes enjoy the "brutality" more than the"honesty." 

All that said, I didn't think this particular thread crossed any lines. I've definitely seen worse.

Reactions: Like 2


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## IHeartTs (Mar 23, 2015)

Poec54 said:


> His bigger concern should be a lawsuit.  What if someone bought a supposed calm spider and it turned out to be an OBT?


As impersonal as this might sound, that's not really my problem lol. But it is my problem when someone wants to take MY obt away from me because of a technical issue that could have been easily avoided. 
Thank you again OP for using your noodle, because many wouldn't have.


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## awiec (Mar 23, 2015)

Angel Minkov said:


> Why are you all so jumpy? A 1'' Pokie wont eat or kill him. I'm in the same boat as you guys and dont support buying dangerous species carelessly, but for the love of the new members - be more gentle.
> 
> Good decision, OP. You can get a GBB, P. irminia or a Tapinauchenius spp. if you want to enjoy something fast, but lacking strong venom.


She is spooked by the speed of the pokie, the tap would be faster and more likely to bolt. Which the issue is that she did not want the two spiders in the first place and is currently scared of having to care for them (nothing wrong with that either) so the decision to re-home them is the best for both her and the spiders. 

I will say though that the pet store is very neglectful, pokies even at 2nd instar are very obviously a pokie (I should know I just got some tiny ones). While G.pulchripes look like a spec of dirt when small, they are built differently from OW and don't have that "smooth coat" that they have. Though for future reference trying to get a look at what the slings look like via pictures before you buy might be helpful, yes many species and genus look the same when small but gbb and pokies are extremely distinct at small sizes. Good luck and I hope Ken can work something out with you.

Reactions: Like 1


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## TarantulaObsession (Mar 23, 2015)

awiec said:


> She is spooked by the speed of the pokie, the tap would be faster and more likely to bolt. Which the issue is that she did not want the two spiders in the first place and is currently scared of having to care for them (nothing wrong with that either) so the decision to re-home them is the best for both her and the spiders.
> 
> I will say though that the pet store is very neglectful, pokies even at 2nd instar are very obviously a pokie (I should know I just got some tiny ones). While G.pulchripes look like a spec of dirt when small, they are built differently from OW and don't have that "smooth coat" that they have. Though for future reference trying to get a look at what the slings look like via pictures before you buy might be helpful, yes many species and genus look the same when small but gbb and pokies are extremely distinct at small sizes. Good luck and I hope Ken can work something out with you.


That was exactly my problem. If I was expecting the pokie and baboon, I would have been prepared to see the ts and to handle their speed. However, I was expecting a little golden knee whos speed is similar to my B. Smithi and a GBB with speed much like my A. Avic. I was not prepared for anything that happened so, I was freaking out. 
If I were more experienced, I would have been stoked to find out that I got a poec and a baboon for $50 and would have gladly kept them without complaining.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Blueandbluer (Mar 23, 2015)

AlanaMarie said:


> That was exactly my problem. If I was expecting the pokie and baboon, I would have been prepared to see the ts and to handle their speed. However, I was expecting a little golden knee whos speed is similar to my B. Smithi and a GBB with speed much like my A. Avic. I was not prepared for anything that happened so, I was freaking out.
> If I were more experienced, I would have been stoked to find out that I got a poec and a baboon for $50 and would have gladly kept them without complaining.


I don't blame you, man. I'm really glad you know your limits, and I definitely think placing them is the right option. And who knows, maybe your poor fortune will be someone else's gain, if they remember this thread and always look at what they get before they leave the shop. I am sorry for the trouble, though, and that you didn't get the spiders you were hoping for.


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## TarantulaObsession (Mar 23, 2015)

Blueandbluer said:


> I don't blame you, man. I'm really glad you know your limits, and I definitely think placing them is the right option. And who knows, maybe your poor fortune will be someone else's gain, if they remember this thread and always look at what they get before they leave the shop. I am sorry for the trouble, though, and that you didn't get the spiders you were hoping for.


Thanks hun, I really do hope that someone sees this thread and checks before leaving. I'd hate for this to happen to someone else. 
However, I'm unable to go over there today, my mom is off as well and she thinks I should keep them because "the tan one has amazing markings and is prettier than any tarantula than you have now." I'm also off tomorrow so, I'll be taking them up there then and try to exchange for the ones I originally wanted.


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## Blueandbluer (Mar 23, 2015)

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you. And my tarsi.


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## lalberts9310 (Mar 23, 2015)

I think it would be awesome if you could exchange them. Very wise decision you are making, and GBB are great looking Ts, and great to further advance in the hobby. Best of luck to you and hope everything turns out well for you!


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## Angel Minkov (Mar 23, 2015)

cold blood said:


> No, but it will certainly grow quickly.  Just because its not a problem at the moment, doesn't mean it won't become one in the not too distant future.
> 
> Being supportive and showing love for new members means giving the best advice you can, not telling the person what you think they want to hear.  The truth is the best way to show love and support.  If I ask a question or for advice, I want honest, truthful answers, not someone trying to blow smoke up my backside under the guise of support and love for the fellow man.


In the not too distant future? If kept a little on the cool side, it can grow a lot slower and the owner can grow with it. When I got my 1/2'' P. regalis sling a year ago I was shivering with fear anytime I had to open its enclosure. After 1-2 months and a rehouse I was completely fine with it and my comfort zone with spiders has grown miles. I agree we shouldn't sugarcoat the truth, but we can be just a tad more kind to the newbies.

Edit: Now when I think about it, I hadn't kept anything except B. vagans and L. striatipes for 3 years (I had the occasional OBT sling 1 month after starting, but lost both of them in my house and ended up finding them and them dying a little later) before getting my P. regalis in august 2014. Now I have 7 species of pokies and I'm perfectly fine with rehousing them, feeding and doing cage maintenance. But I can understand why you're so harsh with your government waiting for 1 error so they can take your pets away from you.


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## King Sparta (Mar 23, 2015)

Best of luck to you and your Ts. Hope that you get the chaco and GBBs. From my own experience on keeping those, I can tell you that they are a great species.


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## TarantulaObsession (Mar 23, 2015)

Good news! While all of this was happening, my B. Smithi molted!

Reactions: Like 1


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## DVMT (Mar 23, 2015)

Angel Minkov said:


> When I got my 1/2'' P. regalis sling a year ago I was shivering with fear anytime I had to open its enclosure.


Classic case of WASN'T READY!!!! :laugh:


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## Angel Minkov (Mar 24, 2015)

DamonVikki said:


> Classic case of WASN'T READY!!!! :laugh:


Classic case of owning almost all of the genus and several other OW Ts half a year later. There is nothing  wrong with being scared if your first OW. I can bet you feared it too. Theres no point in acting tough


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## BobGrill (Mar 24, 2015)

Angel Minkov said:


> Classic case of owning almost all of the genus and several other OW Ts half a year later. There is nothing  wrong with being scared if your first OW. I can bet you feared it too. Theres no point in acting tough


It's not about acting tough. It's about being smart and not getting in over your head way too soon. You shouldn't get a spider that you're afraid of.

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## Angel Minkov (Mar 24, 2015)

You will never be absolutely ready for Pokies, OBTs, Phlogius spp. and so on if you have kept GBbs and Psalms beforehand. You will have had nervous and fast Ts, the venom is what instills fear, not the bite pain.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## BobGrill (Mar 24, 2015)

I disagree. Psalmos are a great way to get used to the speed and defensiveness of OWs. If anything,  Psalmos are a lot more defensive than pokies. What intimidates most people is the speed. The venom certainly is a factor there, but I feel it's seeing the speed of the things that intimidates most inexperienced keepers. If pokies were slow and less nervous, I doubt people would worry about the venom as much. Its the combination of speed, venom,  and nervous disposition that makes them a poor choice for those with less experience.

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## Angel Minkov (Mar 24, 2015)

Truth be told, I agree with you and the reason behind that being tbat I didnt fear the bite of a 0.5" regalis as much as I feared it bolting and escaping. I wouldnt want a large regalis biting a family member a year later. I feared my familie's safety, not mine. Ive held my metallica, subfusca, regalis and almost all of my pokies during rehouses, but I wouldnt reccomend it, because its just a thing Ive developed.


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## Blueandbluer (Mar 24, 2015)

Angel Minkov said:


> Truth be told, I agree with you and the reason behind that being tbat I didnt fear the bite of a 0.5" regalis as much as I feared it bolting and escaping. I wouldnt want a large regalis biting a family member a year later. I feared my familie's safety, not mine. Ive held my metallica, subfusca, regalis and almost all of my pokies during rehouses, but I wouldnt reccomend it, because its just a thing Ive developed.


You... what? That's crazypants, dude.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Angel Minkov (Mar 24, 2015)

What? Pokies arent the demons they are made out to be.


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## BobGrill (Mar 24, 2015)

I would still never handle one though. Its not worth the risk. There are plenty of hands-off methods that work just fine for rehouses.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Blueandbluer (Mar 24, 2015)

One mistake/bad day and you're in an ambulance, and possibly your pokie is dead. That's a shortcut that's not worth taking IMO. 

I mean just LOOK at how badly this guy's arm swelled up! https://youtu.be/hceNe_eswQg


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## gobey (Mar 24, 2015)

I have no fear of my pokie slings. Each about an inch to an inch and a half. No fear of my H. macs. Had a couple slings. 

Serious RESPECT for my OBT. 4.5" female. But she's never threatened me, and she's a mound of dirt now.

I've unpacked, housed, and rehoused 2 adult OBTs. 

Dealt with the Heteroscodra and Poecilotheria slings housing and unpacking.

The only OW Ts that made me nervous. OBT slings.

They always have escape on the mind. Always. One indeed bolted once. That was fun.

I'm sure they're not even above a little nibble. And even a 3/4" OBT bite will seriously ruin your day.

I'm shipping them to a better home today.

One is enough.


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## awiec (Mar 24, 2015)

gobey said:


> I have no fear of my pokie slings. Each about an inch to an inch and a half. No fear of my H. macs. Had a couple slings.
> 
> Serious RESPECT for my OBT. 4.5" female. But she's never threatened me, and she's a mound of dirt now.
> 
> ...


Every spider I've ever owned (Includes mainly true spiders) since I was a little girl has managed to earn my respect and in the 2 years I've had tarantulas they have managed to do the same. Lycosids are fast and mean, salticids are cunning, lactrodectus have potent bites and your average house spiders are tough as nails. I have 30 tarantulas including 20 species and each one has their own way of reminding me that I am working with wild animals with little brains and big fangs. Everyone needs to constantly keep that in mind, even though we call them "pets", I think a lot less bites and issues would come up if people thought like that.

Reactions: Like 6


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## lalberts9310 (Mar 24, 2015)

Angel Minkov said:


> You will never be absolutely ready for Pokies, OBTs, Phlogius spp. and so on if you have kept GBbs and Psalms beforehand. You will have had nervous and fast Ts, the venom is what instills fear, not the bite pain.


I have had psalmos for more than a year now, and am getting my first few OW maybe in a few months time, still depends, will be getting C. Hatihati and maybe M. Balfouri, and I'm not scared, I'm excited. I have heard of psalmos being worse than pokies, more prone to bolt and defend itself than a pokie would.. I have seen threat postures from all my psalmos, including my 1" slings..


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## gobey (Mar 24, 2015)

awiec said:


> Every spider I've ever owned (Includes mainly true spiders) since I was a little girl has managed to earn my respect and in the 2 years I've had tarantulas they have managed to do the same. Lycosids are fast and mean, salticids are cunning, lactrodectus have potent bites and your average house spiders are tough as nails. I have 30 tarantulas including 20 species and each one has their own way of reminding me that I am working with wild animals with little brains and big fangs. Everyone needs to constantly keep that in mind, even though we call them "pets", I think a lot less bites and issues would come up if people thought like that.


I'll add that it's not just the OBT with my respect. They all have it. 

Heck my G. porteri lets me know who's boss anytime I have to take out her water dish even.


I'm just saying. It's not fear I feel. Definitely not fear.


Those tiny orange balls of energy were the first to make me on edge though. Keep me really on high alert when interacting with them.

I've gone up and down the coast and into the Caribbean to swim with various species of sharks.

I know the deal with respecting nature.

Especially unpredictable animals.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Angel Minkov (Mar 24, 2015)

I wont end up in an ambulance, nor will my T die. Its the Ts safety I do it for. Im always watching their fangs and movements. Of course if I can I dont touch them, but, for example, recently I was doing a rehouse of my P. subfusca and my sister was jumping and pushing me when I told her she should stay still, so my P. subfusca bolted and so it doesnt escape I had to use my hand. 

Lalberts - those are the cool-sided OWs. OBTs, Citharischius, Phlogius and so on are the meanies. Pokies are angels compared to those genera.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Blueandbluer (Mar 24, 2015)

Angel Minkov said:


> I wont end up in an ambulance, nor will my T die. Its the Ts safety I do it for. Im always watching their fangs and movements. Of course if I can I dont touch them, but, for example, recently I was doing a rehouse of my P. subfusca and my sister was jumping and pushing me when I told her she should stay still, so my P. subfusca bolted and so it doesnt escape I had to use my hand.
> 
> Lalberts - those are the cool-sided OWs. OBTs, Citharischius, Phlogius and so on are the meanies. Pokies are angels compared to those genera.


Famous last words, my friend. Look, I would never tell anyone how to live their life, but honestly that last scenario sounds like EXACTLY the kind of situation in which someone can get bitten. And the more people who get bitten, the more likely species bans are... so you have to understand why many of us would not react positively to the idea.

Do your thing, man, but don't be shocked when the worst eventually occurs.

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## Angel Minkov (Mar 24, 2015)

What can I do when my sister is a 30-year-old kid who didnt want to believe me until I read her some bite reports. I live in Bulgaria, not America. Here nobody cares about animals or people. 

I rehouse my P. ornata, fasciata, rufilata and other jumpy species with catchcups. Subfusca, L. striatipes,B. vagans and so on are rehoused on my bed.


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## lalberts9310 (Mar 24, 2015)

Angel Minkov said:


> I wont end up in an ambulance, nor will my T die. Its the Ts safety I do it for. Im always watching their fangs and movements. Of course if I can I dont touch them, but, for example, recently I was doing a rehouse of my P. subfusca and my sister was jumping and pushing me when I told her she should stay still, so my P. subfusca bolted and so it doesnt escape I had to use my hand.
> 
> Lalberts - those are the cool-sided OWs. OBTs, Citharischius, Phlogius and so on are the meanies. Pokies are angels compared to those genera.


I know monocentropus are pretty "docile" for an OW, I heard Ceriopagopus can have an attitude.. I wanted P. Subfasca but saw the breeder had C. Hatihati and decided on those instead, since they are very rare in the hobby here in SA, unfortunately, OBTs are illegal in my country

I was just saying since not everyone gets nervous getting their first OW, doesn't matter which one.. I know those you mentioned are waaaaaaay worse hehe


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## Angel Minkov (Mar 24, 2015)

I want C. sp hatihati too, but cant seem to find any...


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## Poec54 (Mar 24, 2015)

gobey said:


> - I have no fear of my pokie slings. Each about an inch to an inch and a half. No fear of my H. macs. Had a couple slings.


Poecs and Heteroscodra aren't overly defensive, but will bite if annoyed or cornered.  You do not want to be on the receiving end of that.  Slings are easily intimidated; they know their fangs can't penetrate most animal's fur/skin.  But as they grow, their bites become something to avoid.  People can get complacent and careless over time.

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## lalberts9310 (Mar 24, 2015)

Angel Minkov said:


> I want C. sp hatihati too, but cant seem to find any...


I'll be ordering in about a month or so, I really hope she'll have in stock then.. they are BE-AU-TY-FUL!


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## Blueandbluer (Mar 24, 2015)

I hear you, but one part of being careful is to remove all potential distractions, unknowns, and potential causes of problems from the area before opening your enclosure. For example, when I'm ready to change my spider, I'm kicking my cats and stepkids out of the room -- and I only have a GBB! 

Shortcuts cause problems, and an important step is controlling your environment.

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## awiec (Mar 24, 2015)

Blueandbluer said:


> I hear you, but one part of being careful is to remove all potential distractions, unknowns, and potential causes of problems from the area before opening your enclosure. For example, when I'm ready to change my spider, I'm kicking my cats and stepkids out of the room -- and I only have a GBB!
> 
> Shortcuts cause problems, and an important step is controlling your environment.


My grandmother, whom is a veterinarian, watched me water my collection one day and commented that I treated it like a medical operation. I had all my tools ready and I was very swift and precise, which you have to me, my only focus is the spider and nothing else. Which is kind of a reason they serve as therapy for me, all of my problems kinda melt away when it's me and the spider, no one else. You cannot be scared of your animals but complacency is just as dangerous.


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## Angel Minkov (Mar 24, 2015)

Blueandbluer said:


> I hear you, but one part of being careful is to remove all potential distractions, unknowns, and potential causes of problems from the area before opening your enclosure. For example, when I'm ready to change my spider, I'm kicking my cats and stepkids out of the room -- and I only have a GBB!
> 
> Shortcuts cause problems, and an important step is controlling your environment.


Not a shortcut, nor are the aforementioned Ts large. The P. subfusca was after a molt and its fangs were white, so I had no fear. The P. regalis is 2.5". Again nothing too dangerous, but the 4" P. metallica is a "touch-with-20"-tongs" case. I never hold large Ts, because they can cause problems. I usually kick out people out too, but my sister insisted on staying and when she pissed me off I grabbed the metal stick I was PRIMARILY using for the P. subfusca rehouse before her bs, and slapped her through the leg. She now knows she is not to move, push me or harrass me while doing maintenance.


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## gobey (Mar 24, 2015)

Poec54 said:


> Poecs and Heteroscodra aren't overly defensive, but will bite if annoyed or cornered.  You do not want to be on the receiving end of that.  Slings are easily intimidated; they know their fangs can't penetrate most animal's fur/skin.  But as they grow, their bites become something to avoid.  People can get complacent and careless over time.


Ah see that's what I strive to avoid. I still treat them like they're a nuclear warhead. I just don't want to call what I have for them "fear". 

I don't fear my spiders. You must get that right?

I certainly understand what they're capable of.

Putting a world of hurt that I cannot properly comprehend in a matter of seconds.

I want to make sure I don't put the T in a situation where it feels it needs to do that.

The worst T I've dealt with was an angry MM OBT during a rehouse. That was quite a rush and a real showcase of what a ticked off OW will do.

The other OBT adult I have is oddly calm. Although I know she could flip a switch at the drop of a dime any day.

Anyway as far as those OBT slings go. I just put them in vials to go on a journey to a serious hobbyist who will appreciate them more than I.

I have replaced them with the baboons I really wanted to get. Ceratogyrus. And I'm good. I have my T quota and OW quota.


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## Blueandbluer (Mar 24, 2015)

I learned respect at the "hands" of an A seemanni I kept at the Zoo. The spiders all had these waxed paper water dishes. I reached in with chopsticks to remove a bolus -- usually not a problem at all -- and for some reason that particular day she was Not Ok with it. She launched at my chopsticks, which I yanked back, and she got her water dish instead. She ripped out a huge chunk of it. I had to toss the dish.

And this is an "easy" species. 

Wild animals are wild. You just never know WHAT they may do, and it's best to be prepared.

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## Angel Minkov (Mar 24, 2015)

Blueandbluer said:


> I learned respect at the "hands" of an A seemanni I kept at the Zoo. The spiders all had these waxed paper water dishes. I reached in with chopsticks to remove a bolus -- usually not a problem at all -- and for some reason that particular day she was Not Ok with it. She launched at my chopsticks, which I yanked back, and she got her water dish instead. She ripped out a huge chunk of it. I had to toss the dish.
> 
> And this is an "easy" species.
> 
> Wild animals are wild. You just never know WHAT they may do, and it's best to be prepared.


Im always expecting to get bit. I just know that no matter how much I think I know about my Ts, they are as unpredictable as they are fascinating.

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## Poec54 (Mar 24, 2015)

Blueandbluer said:


> I learned respect at the "hands" of an A seemanni I kept at the Zoo. The spiders all had these waxed paper water dishes. I reached in with chopsticks to remove a bolus -- usually not a problem at all -- and for some reason that particular day she was Not Ok with it. She launched at my chopsticks, which I yanked back, and she got her water dish instead. She ripped out a huge chunk of it. I had to toss the dish.
> 
> And this is an "easy" species.
> 
> Wild animals are wild. You just never know WHAT they may do, and it's best to be prepared.



And this is one reason many of us are anti-handling, and are not going to cast aside our beliefs to pacify those that think these are animals to play with.  I still get surprised by mine.

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## Blueandbluer (Mar 24, 2015)

Poec54 said:


> And this is one reason many of us are anti-handling, and are not going to cast aside our beliefs to pacify those that think these are animals to play with.  I still get surprised by mine.


And I'm with you in the spirit of that. I've been unshakeably anti-handling since the mid-90s. I just occasionally object to the way people deliver that message. It is possible, as I've said many times, to be firm without being aggressive.


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## Poec54 (Mar 24, 2015)

Blueandbluer said:


> And I'm with you in the spirit of that. I've been unshakeably anti-handling since the mid-90s. I just occasionally object to the way people deliver that message. It is possible, as I've said many times, to be firm without being aggressive.



I'm not aggressive.  Sometimes I do use 'tough love.'  Could be a lot worse.

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## Blueandbluer (Mar 24, 2015)

Poec54 said:


> I'm not aggressive.  Sometimes I do use 'tough love.'  Could be a lot worse.


I'm sure. Although, for the record, I wasn't talking specifically about you, Poec. More a general observation of the board.


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## BobGrill (Mar 24, 2015)

Angel Minkov said:


> I wont end up in an ambulance, nor will my T die. Its the Ts safety I do it for. Im always watching their fangs and movements. Of course if I can I dont touch them, but, for example, recently I was doing a rehouse of my P. subfusca and my sister was jumping and pushing me when I told her she should stay still, so my P. subfusca bolted and so it doesnt escape I had to use my hand.
> 
> Lalberts - those are the cool-sided OWs. OBTs, Citharischius, Phlogius and so on are the meanies. Pokies are angels compared to those genera.


Not to be rude, but that first sentence makes you appear really ignorant. Not judging you as a person here, but that's the impression those words give. I've owned Pokies and baboons for years now. I'm super careful around them as well. Is it still possible for me to get bit and end up in an ER? Sure it is. I hope t doesn't happen, and I will do everything in my power to avoid it, but it's a risk every keeper takes. Its obviously a lot less likely to occur when you don't handle though.

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## DVMT (Mar 24, 2015)

Angel Minkov said:


> Classic case of owning almost all of the genus and several other OW Ts half a year later. There is nothing  wrong with being scared if your first OW. I can bet you feared it too. Theres no point in acting tough


Nah, not acting tough......it's just that when I got OW slings I knew they were basically incapable of biting me or doing much harm.  I respected them and took all precautions like I would with any other.  It was the key phrase "shivering with fear" that kinda made me laugh a little.

---------- Post added 03-24-2015 at 04:36 PM ----------




Angel Minkov said:


> I wont end up in an ambulance, nor will my T die.


Remember....they are in control each and every time the enclosure is opened.  I truly believe with all of my heart that no hobbyist can say this with 100% certainty.....very much including myself.

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## Angel Minkov (Mar 24, 2015)

BobGrill said:


> Not to be rude, but that first sentence makes you appear really ignorant. Not judging you as a person here, but that's the impression those words give. I've owned Pokies and baboons for years now. I'm super careful around them as well. Is it still possible for me to get bit and end up in an ER? Sure it is. I hope t doesn't happen, and I will do everything in my power to avoid it, but it's a risk every keeper takes. Its obviously a lot less likely to occur when you don't handle though.


I didn't say there is no chance of me being bit. I was just saying that the bite from a 2.5'' spider wont send me in an ambulance and flying to the hospital. Don't get me wrong, I respect my spiders and avoid all handling if possible. 

@DamonVikki - Like I said, I feared it escaping and doing harm to family members, not me. I knew a 0.5'' sling can't do anything to me, but if by any small chance it thrived in my apartment and hurt anybody later was what I feared.


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## awiec (Mar 24, 2015)

DamonVikki said:


> Nah, not acting tough......it's just that when I got OW slings I knew they were basically incapable of biting me or doing much harm.  I respected them and took all precautions like I would with any other.  It was the key phrase "shivering with fear" that kinda made me laugh a little.
> 
> ---------- Post added 03-24-2015 at 04:36 PM ----------
> 
> ...


Very much so, when you open that cage you are intruding on their territory and they don't care if you're there to feed them; you are there and they don't want you to be there. For example I will be shipping damon here a GBB I've had for almost a year, I opened his cage today to check on him and give him a small snack. He zipped around the cage and then tried to bite me, he didn't get me but that just goes to prove that you can't predict what the spider will do, even if you've had them for a year/years.

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## DVMT (Mar 25, 2015)

Angel Minkov said:


> I didn't say there is no chance of me being bit. I was just saying that the bite from a 2.5'' spider wont send me in an ambulance and flying to the hospital. Don't get me wrong, I respect my spiders and avoid all handling if possible.
> 
> @DamonVikki - Like I said, I feared it escaping and doing harm to family members, not me. I knew a 0.5'' sling can't do anything to me, but if by any small chance it thrived in my apartment and hurt anybody later was what I feared.


That is understandable to a certain extent, but from my understanding I have deduced that in most cases a tarantula is not going to thrive in MOST residential domiciles, especially slings.  Obviously, there are exceptions.  

Think about the basic needs:

1. Food - Think there will be enough prey around that is size appropriate and is also clear of parasites, insecticides, and who knows what else?  What are the chances it gets enough meals to sustain itself?
2. Water - Unless this guy is hanging around in a leaky basement or under your sink, it is most likely going to dehydrate.
3. Shelter - It will most likely be scared with noises and vibrations, lights, other pets, other insects that see it as prey.  Most likely it will find a place to hide and stay there, wandering at night for food.  Also, without a burrow or good hide in proximity to food and water the sling will lose a lot of moisture very quickly.
4. Temperature - Maybe you keep them in a controlled environment and once they get out and start wandering they find themselves at the mercy of a weather change or maybe you go to work and the temp drops because you don't run the heat all day.

These are all hypothetical of course, but my point is....survival of an escaped sling (in most cases) is very highly unlikely unless you happen to find them within a few days.


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## Angel Minkov (Mar 25, 2015)

Considering I got it in the summer, food, temperature and hydration wouldn't have been a problem. It can drink from plants which there are plenty of in our household, hunt ants (pesky satellite colonies searching for food in our apartment, but they're cute) and temps are around 25-26 during the day and around 20 during the night. Maybe I didn't express myself correctly (which I often do and my posts are riddled with ambiguity). I wasn't literally shivering with fear, I was nervous. I knew they were fast, I knew about the venom, but I also knew it's too tiny to do anything. As the T grew, so did I with it and I'm no longer nervous around them, but when I work with spiders, I always expect the worst - random bites, bolting, so my attention is on trying to control my body if it does (for example if the T bolts onto my hand, instead of flicking it and most likely killing the T, I'm working on not moving to avoid an incident). I work with long tongs, long wooden sticks if my Ts are prone to biting (don't want broken fangs). I've even warned all of my family members that if they're to see a T they should by no means try to manipulate it and instead they should leave it be or cover it with a basin, nothing smaller.


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## RamRod (Mar 25, 2015)

There are plenty of threads that can help you care for and can answer any questions you may have for either one, your pokie and what looks like a Darlingi. I haven't really needed to make any threads due to the fact that my questions or concerns have already been asked and answered by other people, you just need to find them :biggrin: but personally I would never buy a T without looking at it first!!!!


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## bscheidt1020 (Mar 25, 2015)

IHeartTs said:


> Well if someone in Arizona could take them, it's better. But I think she'd need an ID on them first for anyone to help lol. I could def see formosa. If it's lugardi, she's lucky for 2 reasons. 1 it's freaking lugardi 2 they're not too defensive.


There are P. Lugardi for sale on kenthebugguy.com. They are about $40 so go get em!!! My eyes lit up when I saw them but I am not ready to get those yet as I have a few more priorities so I figured I would spread the word...

---------- Post added 03-25-2015 at 07:43 PM ----------

First, Poec54 is old so he can be a little salty if he wishes. My father is the same way and I figure it just comes with the territory. Respect your elders...most of the time. Second, am I the only one who rehouses in the most non contact way possible? My OBT, I put her deli cup in a sterilite tub, took the deli lid off and put the sterilite lid on...slow and steady too. I chased a damn OBT sling around the tub and had to re-route it with a chopstick before it came out of the tub....I can do it but I don't need to prove that. I know I have alot to learn especially with rehousing but where I can use a little pre-planning and avoid the contact, I do it.


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## DVMT (Mar 26, 2015)

Angel Minkov said:


> Considering I got it in the summer, food, temperature and hydration wouldn't have been a problem. It can drink from plants which there are plenty of in our household, hunt ants (pesky satellite colonies searching for food in our apartment, but they're cute) and temps are around 25-26 during the day and around 20 during the night. Maybe I didn't express myself correctly (which I often do and my posts are riddled with ambiguity). I wasn't literally shivering with fear, I was nervous. I knew they were fast, I knew about the venom, but I also knew it's too tiny to do anything. As the T grew, so did I with it and I'm no longer nervous around them, but when I work with spiders, I always expect the worst - random bites, bolting, so my attention is on trying to control my body if it does (for example if the T bolts onto my hand, instead of flicking it and most likely killing the T, I'm working on not moving to avoid an incident). I work with long tongs, long wooden sticks if my Ts are prone to biting (don't want broken fangs). I've even warned all of my family members that if they're to see a T they should by no means try to manipulate it and instead they should leave it be or cover it with a basin, nothing smaller.


Seems like you do have a household that could be habitable after all.  I did say there were exceptions.  I mostly posted that to kind of make a checklist for newer keepers reading the thread.  And I wasn't trying to make fun of you or anything on the whole shivering with fear thing.....it just put a funny image in my head, thats all.  You seem like you have a good handle on what you are doing.

Cheers!

Damon


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## catfishrod69 (Mar 26, 2015)

That first tarantula looks very much like Ceratogyrus meridionalis.


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## Blueandbluer (Mar 26, 2015)

bscheidt1020 said:


> First, Poec54 is old...


WOAH OUCH.:laugh:


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## IHeartTs (Mar 26, 2015)

bscheidt1020 said:


> There are P. Lugardi for sale on kenthebugguy.com. They are about $40 so go get em!!! My eyes lit up when I saw them but I am not ready to get those yet as I have a few more priorities so I figured I would spread the word...
> 
> ---------- Post added 03-25-2015 at 07:43 PM ----------
> 
> First, Poec54 is old so he can be a little salty if he wishes. My father is the same way and I figure it just comes with the territory. Respect your elders...most of the time. Second, am I the only one who rehouses in the most non contact way possible? My OBT, I put her deli cup in a sterilite tub, took the deli lid off and put the sterilite lid on...slow and steady too. I chased a damn OBT sling around the tub and had to re-route it with a chopstick before it came out of the tub....I can do it but I don't need to prove that. I know I have alot to learn especially with rehousing but where I can use a little pre-planning and avoid the contact, I do it.


Hehe thank you! I don't buy online though. I got some coming I believe. Very cheap from a local friend. some chordatus and muticus should be in there if all goes well . Eeeeeeee. So excited!!!!

I can't believe you just called him old! I'm peeing laughing lololol

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## Angel Minkov (Mar 26, 2015)

DamonVikki said:


> Seems like you do have a household that could be habitable after all.  I did say there were exceptions.  I mostly posted that to kind of make a checklist for newer keepers reading the thread.  And I wasn't trying to make fun of you or anything on the whole shivering with fear thing.....it just put a funny image in my head, thats all.  You seem like you have a good handle on what you are doing.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> Damon


No problem. I should've expressed myself better.


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## bscheidt1020 (Mar 26, 2015)

Blueandbluer said:


> WOAH OUCH.:laugh:


Hey I am being brutally honest. Sorry I don't sugar coat it im just a tough love, direct to the point kind of guy. No time for pleasantries folks. I am aware that my sense of humor gets lost in translation, more so through typed word. Poec probably knows I am joking and certainly doesn't sweat my comments or care what I think about him. His accomplishments speak for themselves and I have a good deal of respect for him as I bet we all do. He is blunt, border lining on condescending sometimes but he means well. I had to figure that out about this crowd. Some of them spit a little fire from time to time but they generally mean well. As usual, no offense intended.

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## Blueandbluer (Mar 26, 2015)

bscheidt1020 said:


> Hey I am being brutally honest. Sorry I don't sugar coat it im just a tough love, direct to the point kind of guy.


DYING :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


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## Shrike (Mar 26, 2015)

miss moxie said:


> I hate to be 'that person' but something smells fishy. Perhaps something has gone rotten in the state of Denmark?


I think Shakespeare also said "though keeping tarantulas be madness, yet there is method in it." Anyway, I heard that guy hired a ghost keeper to care for all his spiders and then took all the credit for it on AB. What a fraud.

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## awiec (Mar 26, 2015)

catfishrod69 said:


> That first tarantula looks very much like Ceratogyrus meridionalis.


I'm extremely disappointed that I don't live near by, I'd be all over that, its currently my favorite ow genus


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## King Sparta (Mar 26, 2015)

I dunno if it is just me, but my GBB is SLOW!!! My avic avic is faster than that!!! I am looking to be looking for old worlds so the next Ts I get will hopefully be psalmos and 
tappies. Probably P. pulcher or Cambridgei and T. gigas. I currently have 8 Ts and think I am ready.  
Can anyone give me a brief summary of venom? not allowed to have "hot" Ts. Like I know it is worse than NWs such as brachys but what will it feel like to get bit???
Thanks in advance


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## TarantulaObsession (Mar 26, 2015)

Forgot to post it but here's the best photo  I got of the first one.


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## awiec (Mar 26, 2015)

King Sparta said:


> I dunno if it is just me, but my GBB is SLOW!!! My avic avic is faster than that!!! I am looking to be looking for old worlds so the next Ts I get will hopefully be psalmos and
> tappies. Probably P. pulcher or Cambridgei and T. gigas. I currently have 8 Ts and think I am ready.
> Can anyone give me a brief summary of venom? not allowed to have "hot" Ts. Like I know it is worse than NWs such as brachys but what will it feel like to get bit???
> Thanks in advance


Psalmos are very interesting in that their venom has been studied and the pathway and nerves that their venom takes is the same one for when you eat a very hot pepper. Being a fan and grower of very hot peppers I can say that I would certainly would not want that in my veins. I personally have T.gigas and she has never raised a leg or fang at me for the 1.5 years I've had her, granted she is not a mature adult yet but she would rather hide than try to bite me. Though most people will agree that Psalmos are the best OW training spiders you can get because they are fast, defensive but don't have as bad as venom. Look in the bite reports section, there is pound to be some people who have been bit by a psalmo. If you are not allowed to have potent species than a psalmo should keep you happy for the next few years (you're 15-17 if I recall).


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## TarantulaObsession (Mar 26, 2015)

And I don't still have them, I took them to ken and didn't ask anything in return. I decided to stick with the ones I have for now.


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## awiec (Mar 26, 2015)

AlanaMarie said:


> And I don't still have them, I took them to ken and didn't ask anything in return. I decided to stick with the ones I have for now.


Why not? You spent $50 on them, the gbb would have been a fantastic next step, yes you do get a few feisty ones but the species as a whole is not a hard species to keep.


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## Arachnomaniac19 (Mar 26, 2015)

awiec said:


> If you are not allowed to have potent species than a psalmo should keep you happy for the next few years (you're 15-17 if I recall).


Call me a hypocrite, but I think that no minor should have an OW (with some exceptions).


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## TarantulaObsession (Mar 26, 2015)

awiec said:


> Why not? You spent $50 on them, the gbb would have been a fantastic next step, yes you do get a few feisty ones but the species as a whole is not a hard species to keep.


We have just decided to move and I figured it'd be better of I didn't get more until we finally move and get settled in.


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## awiec (Mar 26, 2015)

Arachnomaniac19 said:


> Call me a hypocrite, but I think that no minor should have an OW (with some exceptions).


I can't condone it but I'd be a hypocrite too cause I kept black widows as a kid BUT widows are sweet hearts compared to most tarantulas.


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## catfishrod69 (Mar 27, 2015)

Well as soon as some of my males mature, im sure ill start producing some.





awiec said:


> I'm extremely disappointed that I don't live near by, I'd be all over that, its currently my favorite ow genus


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## awiec (Mar 27, 2015)

AlanaMarie said:


> We have just decided to move and I figured it'd be better of I didn't get more until we finally move and get settled in.


Well can't blame you there, perhaps save up and then you can purchase a GBB or two. 



catfishrod69 said:


> Well as soon as some of my males mature, im sure ill start producing some.


You always know how to make me smile.

Reactions: Like 1


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## MrDave (Mar 27, 2015)

AlanaMarie said:


> And I don't still have them, I took them to ken and didn't ask anything in return. I decided to stick with the ones I have for now.


Seems like a good, mature decision. Hopefully, Ken will remember you when you make a future purchase from him. Good luck with the move!


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