# What type of rat should I get?



## Brendan (Jan 26, 2008)

Well yesterday some person gave away a free cage with accessories, a long with a free hamster. I picked it up. I don't like the hamster, and I'm interested in selling it or giving it away or trading it in replacement for a rat.

Question is, what type of rat would you recommend?

I want the small type of rat, the cute type. I don't like those huge ones that grow so big. And I don't like sewer rats. At the same time though, I still want the smartest type, the one that remembers its name and yeh. 

I'm thinking of a dumbo rat? But I'm not sure how big they grow.


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## RoachGirlRen (Jan 26, 2008)

How big is this hamster cage? Because I've never seen a hamster cage that would be remotely suitable for a rat (most are too small for hamsters, actually). Rats need a BIG cage - as in, ferret cage sized - because they are active, intelligent, social animals - so you'll be needing plenty of toys, not to mention at least one other rat for company (or you'll have a miserable, neurotic animal on your hands). Dumbo rats are the same size as any Norway rat; all feeder, fancy, dumbo, rex, or hairless rats are derivitives of the same species, which is quite large. Females are slightly smaller overall than males, but you're still looking at a good sized animal. The only "small" rats I can think of would be African Soft Furred Rats, which are much more like mice in personality and akin to a hamster in size - might be more appropriate for the size cage you have.


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## Brendan (Jan 26, 2008)

Err well actually its a really small hamster cage. I guess I'll have to upgrade then.

So anyways, how big do they actually grow?

Also, my dad is worried that if I get a pet rat, it will call for other rats in near areas, and then my house will be infested with them. Is this something to worry about?


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## RoachGirlRen (Jan 26, 2008)

Your average Norway rat is going to be somewhere from 250-450g (females) to 450-650g (males). To give you a size comparison, mice usually weigh 20-30g. So, it's a fairly large animal. Do a google images search of rats and their owners to get a better idea.

Again, you keep saying 'a' pet rat, which worries me... this is a social animal and needs at least one other rat for company to prevent neurotic behaviors. I would suggest getting two or three smallish females since you don't want a giant beast of a rat (which males tend to become). They should not attract wild rats; what attracts wild rats is unclean conditions and abundant food sources, so keep your rats and your home clean.

If it is a small hamster cage, you definately need a _significant_ upgrade. As I said, rats are very active and very clever; most people use ferret cages, converted bookshelves, converted parrot cages, etc. Here's some neat examples:






Commerically purchased cage (origionally for ferrets) for a trio.






Scratch-built home made cage. This is an OK size for two rats but anything smaller is probably not much good.






Converted shelving unit for a larger group of rats.


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## Brendan (Jan 26, 2008)

Ummm...well I've never had a rat before, and obviously I don't want to go and fork out $100 on a massively huge cage. 

The dimensions on my cage are 15" length x 10" width x 8.5" height. 

So are you saying just owning ONE single pet rat is an absolute no? I can't have just one? I must buy more than one?

EDIT: Okay I read from some article that having a rat live alone is an absolute no. Two would be good enough, right?


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## RoachGirlRen (Jan 26, 2008)

Well you should start looking for second hand cages or reading some tutorials on building one if you can't afford one new. The current cage you have isn't even suitable for a hamster, IMO; that's smaller than a 10g aquarium and thus completely, utterly inappropriate for a rat (forget two). If you can't or won't buy a proper sized cage, you can't have rats - they're no different than any other animal in terms of having their proper needs met. And yes, a pair of rats would be fine - just not a solo rat. The reason I suggested a trio is that when they begin passing away from old age, the remaining rats can keep one another company. But a pair would be ok.


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## Brendan (Jan 26, 2008)

Okay I guess I'll skip the rat. I guess I'll consider them in the near future (I'm only 14). 

Now I'm interested in gerbils!!! They are active during the day (so no more noisey exercising from hamsters at night) and they look like fun! 

I have a spare 10 gallon, and I read that two can be housed in it. Just a quick question, since aquariums have little ventilation, would the smell be bad, even though that gerbils have almost no odor?


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## RoachGirlRen (Jan 26, 2008)

I personally think 10g is a little small for two gerbils. I was under the impression it was 10g for the first and 5-10g for each subsequent gerbil. I usually keep my pairs in 20g - they are very active! But to answer your question about odor, no - they have minimal odor and produce little urine since the are a desert animal and thus consume very small amounts of water and put out little urine. The ventillation is usually not an issue if you keep them clean. Even if you only clean weekly, or even every 10 days, two gerbils don't usually rack up much of an odor. Mice, on the other hand, do run into ventillation issues and do develop an odor without pretty frequent (I usually do every 4 days) cleanings since they produce a large amount of urine by comparison.

edit: This site goes through some of the pros and cons of housing and how to set up a proper enclosure.


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## fantasticp (Jan 27, 2008)

Brendan said:


> So are you saying just owning ONE single pet rat is an absolute no? I can't have just one? I must buy more than one?


I have had single rats before. Lola was my last one. If you pick them up and let them ride around on your shoulder and play with them everyday it is not a problem. Just don't lock them up alone in the cage for days on end. Mine would sit on me and watch tv, or sit on my shoulder while I was doing house work, or on the computer desk. She wasn't neurotic or anything.


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## Truff135 (Jan 29, 2008)

I think as long as you interact with the rat on a daily basis (and I mean EVERY DAY) for the length of its life, you will basically be the companion it needs.  I had a single rat before and she rode around on my shoulder and would follow me around.  She was very sweet, but I also gave her a big cage, toys, and played with her a lot.  It's not an animal that you can just put into a cage and forget about, or it'll be miserable all its life.


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## Thrasher (Jan 30, 2008)

Rats are very smart, I have a male and 2 females in a 2 story cage, the only thing that gets me is the smell of them...they smell..and they smell, no matter how often i clean them (every day), they smell and smell more. I take hairball (male) out all the time and he poops every 20 seconds, poop just keeps comming and comming, then they smell and smell more. Do you guys keep them indoor?


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## pitbulllady (Jan 30, 2008)

Thrasher said:


> Rats are very smart, I have a male and 2 females in a 2 story cage, the only thing that gets me is the smell of them...they smell..and they smell, no matter how often i clean them (every day), they smell and smell more. I take hairball (male) out all the time and he poops every 20 seconds, poop just keeps comming and comming, then they smell and smell more. Do you guys keep them indoor?



I've  had many pet rats, and used to breed them in large quantities for snake food, and I never noticed that they smelled.  Are you sure you aren't confusing them with mice?  MICE smell!  While some rats will dribble drops of urine to mark their territory, I never had problems with them pooping on me, either, and I had rats that would sit on my shoulder under my hair literally for hours.  If my allergies hadn't gotten so bad(I'm allergic to all rodents now, as well as to rabbits, reindeer, big cats and sheep, and by "big cats" I mean things like tigers), I'd still have some rats, since I just like 'em.  You can get rats in pretty much any coat type you like, including no coat at all if that appeals to you, and in just about any color or pattern, including some really pretty silvers and lilacs.

pitbulllady


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## RoachGirlRen (Jan 30, 2008)

The majority of odor in mice and rats stems from diet, bedding, and misconceptions about cleaning practices. Certain foods promote stronger urine and fecal odor, certain beddings hold odor, and people often _over_ clean to try to prevent odor, when this in fact oftem promotes increased urine marking. I've noticed a markedly reduced odor in my mice by feeding a higher quality, lower protien (obv. not an option for rats) diet, and leaving a very small amount of lightly soiled bedding (no feces and certainly not even a significant amount of urine like you'd find in the latrine spot) behind with each cleaning. When they smell the old bedding, even in the minutest of quantities, they are re-assured that they do not need to thoroughly and extensively remark their territory. I have eleven does and four bucks, and even after a week without a cleaning (though rest assured that it would only go so long under extenuating circumstances), there is extremely little odor.


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## Brendan (Jan 31, 2008)

fantasticp said:


> I have had single rats before. Lola was my last one. If you pick them up and let them ride around on your shoulder and play with them everyday it is not a problem. Just don't lock them up alone in the cage for days on end. Mine would sit on me and watch tv, or sit on my shoulder while I was doing house work, or on the computer desk. She wasn't neurotic or anything.





Truff135 said:


> I think as long as you interact with the rat on a daily basis (and I mean EVERY DAY) for the length of its life, you will basically be the companion it needs.  I had a single rat before and she rode around on my shoulder and would follow me around.  She was very sweet, but I also gave her a big cage, toys, and played with her a lot.  It's not an animal that you can just put into a cage and forget about, or it'll be miserable all its life.


Hah, well then I think you guys should better talk to RoachGirlRen, because shes making a BIG deal about owning a single rat.


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## halfwaynowhere (Jan 31, 2008)

I've had a single rat, and even though I handled her daily, she was always begging to come out of the cage when I came home from work. A single rat can only be social while you are around. The rest of the day, they sit there alone. I felt so bad for Judy, but after her sister died so mysteriously, I wasn't about to bring another rat into the house. Judy died about a month after Ruby did, so she was only alone for that month, but it broke my heart to see her like that.


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## RoachGirlRen (Jan 31, 2008)

> Hah, well then I think you guys should better talk to RoachGirlRen, because shes making a BIG deal about owning a single rat.


I'm making a 'big deal' because IMO there are very few good reasons to keep a social animal alone, especially when you know better. And human interaction, no matter how frequent, is not the same as the type of interaction they would recieve from another of their species, period; I'm sure you like spending time with your dog or cat, but is it the same as having contact with another human being?
<edit> does happen and sometimes rats do have to be housed alone; perhaps its companion died, perhaps it has a disability/contageous illness, or perhaps it was housed alone before and now behaves aggressively towards others of its kind. But there is no reason to take a young, healthy, social rat and deliberately keep it isolated *just* because you don't feel like dealing with the very minute hasstle of having two instead of one (if anything, having one is MORE of a hasstle because of the amount of time you have to spend trying to keep it from being miserable). Just because you "can" keep a social animal solitary doesn't mean you should or that it is the right thing for the animal.  



> A single rat can only be social while you are around. The rest of the day, they sit there alone.


Quotes for emphasis!


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## Dark (Jan 31, 2008)

I have had rats before, very good pets, only reason I don't have them now is my brother had went over to the cage and his throat swelled up. Rats should be in pairs because the people who keep them alone usually handle them constantly and have them always with them. As for cage size, I personally feel that they do need a decent sized cage, but I think ferret sized cage is a bit excessive, yes the rats will be happier in a huge cage, but if you just get them a twenty gallon and keep them out often and play with them, a ferret sized cage isn't really necessary. Don't get me wrong about cage size, you can't stick them into a ten gallon and call it a day, and even a twenty gallon for two males is a bit small, but if you have two females and you have them in a twenty gallon with a place to hide they should be fine. Rats are great pets as long as you have two of the same gender and socialize them a lot. 

Just never stick your hand under their hiding spot in order to get them out unless you want to get bit  .


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