# Chilobrachys electric blue



## Kodi (Aug 18, 2016)

Does anyone have one of these guys or know of their behavior? There's a seller on AB that's listing them for $250 for a sling which I don't think is too insane for a species that was just discovered last year. I think I'll wait though... Haha


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## EulersK (Aug 18, 2016)

I've never kept them, but I doubt that they're much different than any other Chilobrachys. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, though. Have deep substrate as they'll often burrow, provide _plenty_ of webbing anchor points (bamboo skewers work best), and keep them on the humid side. They are very high strung and have a nasty bite, so be prepared for that.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## viper69 (Aug 18, 2016)

Kodi said:


> Does anyone have one of these guys or know of their behavior? There's a seller on AB that's listing them for $250 for a sling which I don't think is too insane for a species that was just discovered last year. I think I'll wait though... Haha


That's an artificially inflated price, just like H. pulchripes.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3 | Award 1


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## Kodi (Aug 18, 2016)

viper69 said:


> That's an artificially inflated price, just like H. pulchripes.


What do you mean by artificially?


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## viper69 (Aug 18, 2016)

Kodi said:


> What do you mean by artificially?


Meaning a price was determined by someone, that it seems for now, the market will bear.

P. metallica used to be $400 sling. The price could have been "set" at $250. The same for H. pulchripes.

A object etc is only worth what someone will pay for it. There's no intrinsic value in Ts, we aren't talking diamonds or gold.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 4


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## Kodi (Aug 18, 2016)

Well that's obvious. That's why I said I think I'll wait. Once other importers get their hands on them they'll lower the price to be competitive and once the breeders get them to produce sacs they'll be even cheaper. That could be years though.


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## Venom1080 (Aug 18, 2016)

EulersK said:


> I've never kept them, but I doubt that they're much different than any other Chilobrachys. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, though. Have deep substrate as they'll often burrow, provide _plenty_ of webbing anchor points (bamboo skewers work best), and keep them on the humid side. They are very high strung and have a nasty bite, so be prepared for that.


do anchor points matter? or is it just so the spider makes a cooler web?


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## EulersK (Aug 18, 2016)

Venom1080 said:


> do anchor points matter? or is it just so the spider makes a cooler web?


They actually do matter, yes. Those web tubes aren't for show - they will create their own hides out of webbing. If you don't give anchor points, then all they'll have is the hide you provide them. This makes them more skittish IME, something you don't need with a chilobrachys

Reactions: Agree 2 | Informative 2 | Helpful 1


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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 18, 2016)

viper69 said:


> That's an artificially inflated price, just like H. pulchripes.


Ah ah funny, I was thinking the same just before, without even read your comment. Basically a less high strung, different type of 'OBT' but overpriced due to the 'fashion effect'. Lately here the price went a bit down to planet earth :-s

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 18, 2016)

Anyway I agree with EulersK, the care is the same 'Asian' story: lots of moist inches of substrate, a cork bark for hide, a couple of fake leaves, water dish. Done. Bite from that genus buggers is, in general, brutal  very fast of course, pretty defensive attitude.


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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 18, 2016)

EulersK said:


> They actually do matter, yes. Those web tubes aren't for show - they will create their own hides out of webbing. If you don't give anchor points, then all they'll have is the hide you provide them. This makes them more skittish IME, something you don't need with a chilobrachys


True but if a cork bark is present (always IMO the best) and there's an helluva of substrate they will create very nice burrows :-s


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## EulersK (Aug 18, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> True but if a cork bark is present (always IMO the best) and there's an helluva of substrate they will create very nice burrows :-s


I'll take webbing over burrows any day of the week! If you provide enough webbing anchor points, then they often never burrow at all.

Reactions: Clarification Please 1


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## viper69 (Aug 18, 2016)

Kodi said:


> Well that's obvious. That's why I said I think I'll wait. Once other importers get their hands on them they'll lower the price to be competitive and once the breeders get them to produce sacs they'll be even cheaper. That could be years though.


It will depend upon the perceived demand, the ease of breeding, the number of slings produced per sac etc. When Kelly Swift produced the first USA sac of P. metallica he told me they weren't a straight forward species to breed, so the price was higher naturally among other reasons stated previously. Too bad they don't drop 1,000 eggs/sac hah.

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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 18, 2016)

EulersK said:


> I'll take webbing over burrows any day of the week!


Muahahahahahahahah, cracked me up. On the other hand, I love burrows


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## EulersK (Aug 18, 2016)

@viper69 

That was strangely worded, I admit. In my experience with Chilobrachys, they won't burrow at all if you provide enough webbing anchor points. It's almost as if they make their burrows out of the webbing. Not sure if this is what's actually happening, but it's the only explanation I can come up with. If little or no anchor points are provided, they turn into a skittish pet hole.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## viper69 (Aug 18, 2016)

EulersK said:


> @viper69
> 
> That was strangely worded, I admit. In my experience with Chilobrachys, they won't burrow at all if you provide enough webbing anchor points. It's almost as if they make their burrows out of the webbing. Not sure if this is what's actually happening, but it's the only explanation I can come up with. If little or no anchor points are provided, they turn into a skittish pet hole.


Now that something I didn't know. How many of this genus have you owned, and which species?

If you want more webbing instead of burrows, time to move you into Avics


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## TownesVanZandt (Aug 18, 2016)

EulersK said:


> I'll take webbing over burrows any day of the week! If you provide enough webbing anchor points, then they often never burrow at all.


Both my _Chilobrachys _are in burrows, so I can´t really compare what I prefer with them. However, I currently have 4 _P. murinus; _three in burrows and one crazy one who´s made a "GBB-style" web castle. I have to say, I prefer those in burrows. The one with the web castle is far more of a jack-in-the-box and much more prone to bolting around and about when I´m going into her enclosure.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 2


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## Matabuey (Aug 18, 2016)

viper69 said:


> Meaning a price was determined by someone, that it seems for now, the market will bear.
> 
> P. metallica used to be $400 sling. The price could have been "set" at $250. The same for H. pulchripes.
> 
> A object etc is only worth what someone will pay for it. There's no intrinsic value in Ts, we aren't talking diamonds or gold.


You do realise by the way, diamonds are worth very little, it's only because there is a monopoly on them, thus they can charge what they want, by restricting supply.

Unless the diamond is particularly large and rare - which you need multi millions for.

I recently sold two rings I bought for my ex girlfriend for £2500 each, but I received around £500 back in total - only haha! They'd only pay for the gold.

As the diamonds are worth absolutely nothing, once you leave the showroom. The dealer showed me boxes full of diamonds he has, he can't do anything with them or get any money for them as their actual value is artificial.

One of the biggest cons of the 21st century.

I will never buy a diamond ring for a girl again in my life haha.

Just a little something for you to read if you're interested - knowledge is power and all that. 

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/3708562

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## viper69 (Aug 18, 2016)

Matabuey said:


> You do realise by the way, diamonds are worth very little, it's only because there is a monopoly on them, thus they can charge what they want, by restricting supply.
> 
> Unless the diamond is particularly large and rare - which you need multi millions for.
> 
> ...


I have relatives in the jewelry business, when I was very young they taught me "never buy a diamond for investment purposes", that article is not news at all. Again, everything goes back to what I said, something is worth only what one is willing to pay for it. Whether it's a T, a diamond, an antique or a comic book.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## EulersK (Aug 18, 2016)

viper69 said:


> Now that something I didn't know. How many of this genus have you owned, and which species?
> 
> If you want more webbing instead of burrows, time to move you into Avics


0.1.1 C. fimbriatus (one adult female, one raised from a sling and is currently 1.5" dls)
1.2.1 C. andersoni (one raised from sling to adult male, two subadult females that were traded off, one current juvie unsexed)
0.0.1 C. huahini

The C. fimbriatus webs much more than the andersoni, but both forsake a burrow if web anchors are offered. I actually accidentally ran an experiment on the C. huahini. I housed it in an enclosure made for burrowing, and for uninteresting reasons, I had to rehouse it a week later. By that time, it had dug down quite deep and was already a pet hole. After the rehouse, I offered plenty of anchor points as well as plenty of substrate. It hasn't even begun to burrow, but the entire enclosure is covered in web forming tubes.

Reactions: Informative 3


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## Matabuey (Aug 18, 2016)

viper69 said:


> I have relatives in the jewelry business, when I was very young they taught me "never buy a diamond for investment purposes", that article is not news at all. Again, everything goes back to what I said, something is worth only what one is willing to pay for it. Whether it's a T, a diamond, an antique or a comic book.


Yeah, but you said "it's not diamonds or gold" - when diamonds are exactly the same as these tarantulas. As person x has a monopoly on these T's - so can charge whatever they like.


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## viper69 (Aug 18, 2016)

Matabuey said:


> Yeah, but you said "it's not diamonds or gold" - when diamonds are exactly the same as these tarantulas. As person x has a monopoly on these T's - so can charge whatever they like.


I see what you mean, but it's not exactly the same. It's different on so many levels.

All things being equal:
If I drop a 5 carat diamond on the street, people will dive for it
If I drop a 5" T on the street, people will drive over it.

If you want to PM me go ahead. I don't like to hijack a thread about gemstones.

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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 18, 2016)

viper69 said:


> or a comic book.


Christ I blame nerds for that, they created and mastermind that 'Comic Mafia'

Reactions: Funny 2


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## viper69 (Aug 18, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> Christ I blame nerds for that, they created and mastermind that 'Comic Mafia'


Ah, but comic books one tells stories through pictures, it's unique in that aspect.

The very early comic books only increase in value.

Nerds, just another name for a person that has a strong interest in "something", be it comics, Ts, sports, etc.

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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 18, 2016)

viper69 said:


> Ah, but comic books one tells stories through pictures, it's unique in that aspect.
> 
> The very early comic books only increase in value.
> 
> Nerds, just another name for a person that has a strong interest in "something", be it comics, Ts, sports, etc.


Ah ah ah I know, and you're right (I'm a comic collector myself, mostly Italians) but couldn't resist to joke about the average comic nerd that spend his day annoying the shopkeeper talking

Reactions: Funny 1


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## JoeRossi (Aug 18, 2016)

viper69 said:


> I see what you mean, but it's not exactly the same. It's different on so many levels.
> 
> All things being equal:
> If I drop a 5 carat diamond on the street, people will dive for it
> ...


 Ahh.....the irony or should we call it the contradiction?

One brings up gem stones, but then wants to close the comparative statement.  

Agreed beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I would take many tarantulas over gold or diamonds (hence why most individuals that are really in the hobby truly love the hobby).

The facts with anything is supply and demand as was discussed as well as origination price.  If original price is high then one must consider what a fair price is.  As with any new tarantula (and often product in general) individuals can make a decision to wait until price goes down.  Sometimes that back fires and the product or tarantula goes out of circulation and price goes up or you can't find them.  Many of the rare seekers are willing to pay the high price on a tarantula because they want it and want it now.  Weather that be because they wish to breed it and recoup costs or just to have it then that is up to the individual.  This fact alone is also a "eye of the beholder" view point and can share many different opinion as verbalized in this thread.  There are many who feel Tarantulas should be treated as gold and diamonds and valued as such.  Others feel they should be offered to all and given away or sold for cheap.  Again an opinion which puts into question the devaluation or valuation of tarantulas in general.  

My thoughts are to each there own, but I am and always will be the type that will pay a high price for beauty if I want it now and if I miss the opportunity can only hope it comes around again.  In addition, my advice is always to go to the source and as was stated to "PM" or ask that source about the specific tarantula in question.  Often times through report and or simple communication, knowledge, background, and even monetary value can be discussed.

I agreed with the care of many of the comments made on the specimen.  Moist, deep substrate, good ventilation, and with any tarantula consistent monitoring to make sure food is being eaten and taken out when it is not.

Best of luck to all Electric lovers as it is truly a beautiful specimen in my honest yet humble opinion

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## John Apple (Aug 19, 2016)

It all boils down to making a buck or making an undeserved buck here. I am sure these will fade in price quick and those asking a ridiculous price for a Chilobrachys will cost likely not get a return flow of cash expected. Its just that simple. There are those that will get all butt hurt on prices after they realize what happens to prices when bred. In my experience Chilobrachys are easy to breed and spread some slings. I have a Vietnam blue on a sac and the slings will most likely be traded off very few sold.
makes me think of every one that was mad when C. lividum was bought and turned out to be a pet hole that they never saw.....same with ALL Chilobrachys. To be somewhat on topic they are rather easy to care for

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## Jones0911 (Aug 19, 2016)

I've actually inquired about two of these and also might get two Ornithoctonus aureotibialis.

The only way prices will come down is if more people start buying and breeding (in between that is the research of course).

The whole point of this hobby is to buy,breed,sell (and of course collect for the non breeders).

But you only get out of this hobby (as you do anything in life) whatever you put into it.

Everyone can "easily" get the money back they put into it if they are truly a lover of the hobby because every T in the hobby is on someone's wish list.

Then you add to it all the new folks who are in the hobby now and will be in it soon


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## JoeRossi (Aug 19, 2016)

John Apple said:


> It all boils down to making a buck or making an undeserved buck here. I am sure these will fade in price quick and those asking a ridiculous price for a Chilobrachys will cost likely not get a return flow of cash expected. Its just that simple. There are those that will get all butt hurt on prices after they realize what happens to prices when bred. In my experience Chilobrachys are easy to breed and spread some slings. I have a Vietnam blue on a sac and the slings will most likely be traded off very few sold.
> makes me think of every one that was mad when C. lividum was bought and turned out to be a pet hole that they never saw.....same with ALL Chilobrachys. To be somewhat on topic they are rather easy to care for


Again, I feel it all "boils down" to several factors as stated. Supply and demand. Those that want the species now vs waiting, those that value the species, those that want ro try and makr a return, those that want it to just view (even if it is at feeding time when most tarantulas often come out...man traps and others are cool).  To reiterate beauty is truly in the eye of the beholder and to each their own opinion. 

I have to remind some of my local friends (and others) with the mentality that everyone wants to wait until h. lividum, p met, h. pulchripes, etc..drops in price to dollars or "freebies" that some value all species and don't want to see the inevitable devalue happen to soon.  They state comments like we'll you get wholesale and always buy low.  On the contrary, I look for the rare or first of its kind based apon how I feel about a specimen.  For example, bought first M. balfouri that came in 350.00+, bought first E. olivacia to come in 350.00 +, first Xeneth. sp. blue 450.00 +, the list goes on and on.  It is great to get a return if you can breed, but many of the rare specimens it never happens or does not by the time individuals devaluize them as what happen's with anything.  Much of my "profit", if any lol, goes to buy immediate new high end species because that is what I like.

I enjoy all tarantulas in general as well as they all have their own unique qualities. Tree webbers, ground dwellers, kickers, swimmers,dashers,crawlers, brawlers....their beauty is outstanding.

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## advan (Aug 19, 2016)

Kodi said:


> Does anyone have one of these guys or know of their behavior? There's a seller on AB that's listing them for $250 for a sling which I don't think is too insane for a species that was just discovered last year. I think I'll wait though... Haha


This species has been known for years, it was not just discovered. Only brought in the hobby and given a hobby name to help sell it better. Hence the high prices.  http://www.birdspiders.com/gallery/index.php/Tarantulas/birdspiders_0829

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## John Apple (Aug 19, 2016)

and for such a high priced spider it is kinda rather a meh looking spider....per Ricks unflashed picture.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (Aug 19, 2016)

advan said:


> This species has been known for years, it was not just discovered. Only brought in the hobby and given a hobby name to help sell it better. Hence the high prices.  http://www.birdspiders.com/gallery/index.php/Tarantulas/birdspiders_0829


Just because a species is on Rick West site does not mean it is "known" by all and avaliable. Anyone can go through Ricks site and find a handful of spiders know one as seen available in the hobby. You can say that with several specimens on Rick West link. There are many spiders pictured that are not "available" in the hobby. This does not devalue them of make them any less rare because a single or few individuals found 1 or 2 specimens and snapped a picture.  Also, one must name the spider according to the information given and then choose if one wishes to give it a common name accordingly.  Furthermore there are species given names on Rick's site that ate not accurate or turn out to be something else.  This has happened with Hapalopus sp. Columbia labeled as Hap. Formosa.  Another recent example is one of my favorites...the Fracta. http://birdspiders.com/gallery/index.php/Tarantulas/birdspiders_0145

Although labeled as this on Rick site I have personally spoke with him about the specimen and feel it is another species.........(add)

At some point anyone can argue every spider and say it should have been named this, it's all for marketing purposes, and everything is a scandal.

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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 19, 2016)

However in Europe I have to say that genus _Chilobrachys _is by far one of the cheapest, slings talking. Aside for this one, not always available like the others, you can have for $25 max $30 an helluva of slings, from _C.fimbriatus_, _C.huahini _to the not so common ones with their Kaeng & Khiri Khan sort of Gengys names lol


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## advan (Aug 19, 2016)

Not sure what you disagree with Joe? The spiders in the hobby are from Khao Sok National Park. Been found and photographed for years, at least 2012-13. The polish who collected them that dubbed them as 'electric blue' told people who asked, the location is secret. Just a little digging and you can find the location. 

Now on to the name making for an easier sell:
If some one is cruising a pricelist and isn't familiar with _Chilobrachys_, sees _Chilobrachys_ sp. 'Khao Sok' do you think that is going to interest them to research the species and find photos than if they read _Chilobrachys_ sp. 'electric blue'? 

Jose, not sure what you're getting at?? I was merely stating these were not just discovered last year as posted. Value is what someone will pay. To me, they are not worth that price especially when the first few batches of slings all were CH not CB. Oh and the size of _Chilobrachys_ eggsacs.

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## John Apple (Aug 19, 2016)

its all a marketing ploy Chadly....as you said in not the same words....easier to sell {for an inflated price] and adjective filled name instead of a location name...what of the 7 deadly sins is this I might add.....;]


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## JoeRossi (Aug 19, 2016)

advan said:


> This species has been known for years, it was not just discovered. Only brought in the hobby and given a hobby name to help sell it better. Hence the high prices.  http://www.birdspiders.com/gallery/index.php/Tarantulas/birdspiders_0829


"


advan said:


> Not sure what you disagree with Joe? The spiders in the hobby are from Khao Sok National Park. Been found and photographed for years, at least 2012-13. The polish who collected them that dubbed them as 'electric blue' told people who asked, the location is secret. Just a little digging and you can find the location.
> 
> Now on to the name making for an easier sell:
> If some one is cruising a pricelist and isn't familiar with _Chilobrachys_, sees _Chilobrachys_ sp. 'Khao Sok' do you think that is going to interest them to research the species and find photos than if they read _Chilobrachys_ sp. 'electric blue'?
> ...



Real simple Chad, "Only brought in the hobby and given a hobby name to help sell it better".  That is an opinion that it was given a hobby name to help sell better.  One could argue it could sell the same given a sp. name or anything else with an incredible photo shot (some times species speak for themselves to the individual).  In fact, one could further argue that there are some individuals who don't like any hobby name or common name and are turned off by this.  I had costumers that hated the term pumpkin patch (paid a lot for the first of these as well) and would not touch them LOL   For many a common name is fun and entertaining and may have nothing to do with marketing purposes.  I love the term "munchkin patch" (paid many $$ for the first of these also), but never would say it was for marketing purposes or to sell better....just a fun name. Others despise the name and that is o.k. they are entitled to their opinion.

We can agree to disagree on this, but I still wanted to clarify why I disagree Chad. You also state, "The polish who collected them that dubbed them as 'electric blue' ..." FYI as well it was not only those quoted who collected them and they were not the first to market/sell them in the hobby.  If it interest you feel free to give me a call and I can let you know the real background as you have my number.  If not then no worries, you /apple /others/ have the right to your opinion or pass on the specie, I will enjoy their beauty, and again we can professionally agree to disagree.

On apples comment,  I disagree the spider is dull pictured, a pet hole, and I  like the specie and find it very attractive....hence my beauty is in the eye of the beholder speech.  Also, I believe he meant *one of the 7 deadly sins and again....an opinion many don't agree with yet it further backs up why one might be turned of by a common name.

The reason I agree with the Berrios post is one can argue over and over that a species is over priced, just given a name for marketing, not worth the value, been around for years with one picture, etc...  The fact comes down to what someone is willing to pay, if they like the species, and if the agree with a high valued hobby or not.  To each their own and again opinions including mine are just that.....I for one spend the big $ for the pretty creatures and like them priced as "diamonds and gold" not valued as coal.

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## Kodi (Aug 19, 2016)

I feel as if this discussion comes about every time there's a new expensive T in the hobby.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## viper69 (Aug 19, 2016)

Exoskeleton Invertebrates said:


> This has happened with Hapalopus sp. Columbia labeled as Hap. Formosa.


And that was a very, very interesting read I must say when I found the many pages dedicated to that animal a while back.

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## EulersK (Aug 19, 2016)

It's already been said - any spider is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. I just paid a good chunk of change for a MM, but you wouldn't be able to give that same spider away to many people. I can't quite see why so many people are arguing over this concept  There's not even a market for this spider, the seller can charge whatever they want. Hell, even if there was a market, a seller can still charge whatever they want. I saw a stack of B. albopilosum slings at an expo once for $20...

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## viper69 (Aug 19, 2016)

It's a pretty tarantula no doubt.

I wonder if C. sp "electric blue” comes from http://www.spidersworld.eu/en/spiders/ or http://spidershop.pl/


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## advan (Aug 20, 2016)

JoeRossi said:


> "
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I should clarify "only brought in" was retaining to just last year. 

I'd much rather have locale attached to a hobby name than some word like 'electric' to give the species more notice. Why not _Chilobrachys_ sp. 'Khao Sok blue' or something close?

So the polish that claimed to be the first to find and collect this species back in Feb. 2015 are lying? Doesn't surprise me but why would they? 

Direct quote from them- "A new species in Hobby Chilobrachys SP Electric Blue, searching my (effect) and <edit>, Thailand 2015. Thanks for those who kept their fingers crossed __ we are proud that we managed to find them, many have tried - Poland won."

No calls possible at the moment. I'm in the Caribbean on a beautiful island wondering why I'm on a forum. Haha.

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## AphonopelmaTX (Aug 20, 2016)

Yeah yeah, the Polish are first to market with a new species.  Who is the lucky arachnologist(s) who get to describe it and publish the species description?

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## advan (Aug 20, 2016)

AphonopelmaTX said:


> Yeah yeah, the Polish are first to market with a new species.  Who is the lucky arachnologist(s) who get to describe it and publish the species description?


West and Nunn with the help of Wirth are working on a revision of Selenocosmiinae. Will this species be included? I don't know.

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## JoeRossi (Aug 20, 2016)

advan said:


> I should clarify "only brought in" was retaining to just last year.
> 
> I'd much rather have locale attached to a hobby name than some word like 'electric' to give the species more notice. Why not _Chilobrachys_ sp. 'Khao Sok blue' or something close?
> 
> ...


Your opinion, "I'd much rather have locale attached to a hobby name" has been shared by many on the forum.  However, it is just not agreed by many new hobbiest, others who have not learned all scientific, and those that simply like a common name. Believe me when I say I have used only scientific on lists before at shows for example and it make's it extremely difficult to communicate.  It has nothing to do with marketing for many they just relate a tarantula to a common name and don't know the scientific.  Shall we say to all, "you don't know Brachypelma smithi scientific name you are deemed un-worthy go away" (we all were newbies at some point in the hobby).  Many times I am not selling there, but trying educate on the Mexican Red Knee.  Many just simply like saying common names and can't pronounce immediately the scientific as it is a learning process for all.  I love scientific names, but understand the need for common as well.  Another example, perhaps it is different in other states with other brokers or fish/wild, but in CA when we bring in they require us to list a common name on every specie we can.  Why? Perhaps because many checking don't know some scientific names and or want to see if what they have as common matches?

I never said they were not the first to find, I simply alluded they were not the "only" first.

Thanks for the clarify on "only brought in", enjoy your time in the "electric" blue waters of the caribbean lol, and feel free to buzz me when you return if further details are of interest.

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## Poec54 (Aug 20, 2016)

JoeRossi said:


> I look for the rare or first of its kind based apon how I feel about a specimen.  For example, bought first M. balfouri that came in 350.00+, bought first E. olivacia to come in 350.00 +, first Xeneth. sp. blue 450.00 +, the list goes on and on.  It is great to get a return if you can breed, but many of the rare specimens it never happens or does not by the time individuals devaluize them as what happen's with anything.  Much of my "profit", if any lol, goes to buy immediate new high end species because that is what I like.


Agreed.  The people buying the pricey new introductions really should be breeders: they have a strong incentive to recoup their money and put every specimen 'to work.'  They get more slings out in the hobby so more people can own the new species.  As the supply increases, prices moderate & the breeders get their money back.  Everybody benefits. 

For inexperienced people with no breeding experience (and often no desire to do it either), they would only buy one, which could wind up being a male, or it could die in molt.  They're out the money, and even if it turns out they have a female, it's not likely to be bred. 

You're free to buy what you want, but I'd much rather see serious breeders get the new species at first, and produce a few sacs per female, distributing hundreds or thousands of slings to the hobby, than to have a person get one and never breed it: that helps keep supply low and prices high.

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## viper69 (Aug 20, 2016)

advan said:


> I'm in the Caribbean on a beautiful island wondering why I'm on a forum


Post up some great pics, esp of local herps and Ts Advan, living the jet set life down there.

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## John Apple (Aug 22, 2016)

so lets charge an unreal amount of money for an almost unheard [well not really as rossi stated] and then get what we can before they [other hobbyists] breed this spider and the price goes down....
so on that same token lets publish a wholesale price to the public...that right there makes me wonder on some things.
lotta bs going on in the hobby now and this well named [marketing ploy] chilo is a direct result of that.
Harpactira pulchripes comes to mind here as when they came out they were Harpactira pulchripes and not a pretty catchy adjective filled name.
but really what do I know.


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## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (Aug 22, 2016)

John Apple said:


> so lets charge an unreal amount of money for an almost unheard [well not really as rossi stated] and then get what we can before they [other hobbyists] breed this spider and the price goes down....
> so on that same token lets publish a wholesale price to the public...that right there makes me wonder on some things.
> lotta bs going on in the hobby now and this well named [marketing ploy] chilo is a direct result of that.
> Harpactira pulchripes comes to mind here as when they came out they were Harpactira pulchripes and not a pretty catchy adjective filled name.
> but really what do I know.


    A. Agreed it is not an unreal amount of money as was stated (several other new species went for much higher price).
    B. The public are also being sold the "spider" so they have a chance to breed it as well if they want to be the first and then sell for fair market value if they are successful hopefully  with out devaluing the tarantula.
   C. The wholesale price to the public definitely will drop a "spiders" value quick if the price is devalued over seas (who specifically are you referring to Apple)?  
   D. As was stated the "incredible pictures" is what sold the H. pulchripes when it first came in and not the common name or scientific. Also it was sad to see this spider devalued so quickly. The gorgeous picture of the "electric" speaks for itself and many think it is a nice looking spider. We have heard your opinion on it Apple (dull, pet hole,etc) and again others have their own opinion which I am sure is based on what they see (the spider speaking for it self) and not a name of any kind.

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## Matabuey (Aug 22, 2016)

At the end of the day, compared to other hobbies, spiders are cheap as chips.

Even for a rare species, you're hardly paying anything at all - not sure why people complain.

If you wanted to buy an equally rare snake in captivity (As that's all that matters, it's irrelevant how plentiful a species is in the wild, as some are heavily protected thus their captive value increases), you'd have to pay upwards of $1000 at the very least - I'm not talking about morphs, I'm talking about rare *species*.

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## JoeRossi (Aug 22, 2016)

Matabuey said:


> At the end of the day, compared to other hobbies, spiders are cheap as chips.
> 
> Even for a rare species, you're hardly paying anything at all - not sure why people complain.
> 
> If you wanted to buy an equally rare snake in captivity (As that's all that matters, it's irrelevant how plentiful a species is in the wild, as some are heavily protected thus their captive value increases), you'd have to pay upwards of $1000 at the very least - I'm not talking about morphs, I'm talking about rare *species*.


"At the end of the Day" people can and will complain about price on anything.  Take a high priced new car for example:  there are those that will complain and not get it and try to persuade others through complaining not to get it or there are those who can afford it and buy it because they like /want it not worried about those that complain.  Many of the cars with in minutes  of driving off the lot let alone with in years depreciate, but some of them years later if kept in good condition are worth more then they ever were.....(sound familiar ...blondi, apophysis,etc..).  Furthermore, I don't care if they call that Car the incredible turbo super duper tans dimensional flux capacitor mind blowing vehicle or if they say simply an El camino as I am not getting the car unless I love how it looks and rides!

But hey ....we are not talking about cars or snakes we are talking about tarantulas (note tarantulas are far less maintenance or cost while having them then either) lol.  However, I value many tarantulas more then many of those mentioned.....to each their own.

Godspeed to those high end tarantula keepers/buyers and to all others as well....

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## Poec54 (Aug 22, 2016)

Matabuey said:


> spiders are cheap as chips.  Even for a rare species, you're hardly paying anything at all - not sure why people complain.
> If you wanted to buy an equally rare snake in captivity (As that's all that matters, it's irrelevant how plentiful a species is in the wild, as some are heavily protected thus their captive value increases), you'd have to pay upwards of $1000 at the very least - I'm not talking about morphs, I'm talking about rare species.


 
That's why we have spiders, and I assume that's why you do too: price.


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## Poec54 (Aug 22, 2016)

Exoskeleton Invertebrates said:


> H. pulchripes when it first came in and not the common name or scientific. Also it was sad to see this spider devalued so quickly.


 
_'Devalue.'_  I know what you mean.  I *hate *when spiders become affordable for the average spider person to own and enjoy.  It just* ruins* that species.  The most important thing about a spider isn't it's looks or behavior, it's the artificial and arbitrary price tags we put on them.  That's what matters.  Everyone knows that the 'good' species are expensive, and once they're no longer expensive, they're not as good either.  Same animal, different price.  Funny how that works.

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## EulersK (Aug 22, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> _'Devalue.'_  I know what you mean.  I *hate *when spiders become affordable for the average spider person to own and enjoy.  It just* ruins* that species.  The most important thing about a spider isn't it's looks or behavior, it's the artificial and arbitrary price tags we put on them.  That's what matters.  Everyone knows that the 'good' species are expensive, and once they're no longer expensive, they're not as good either.  Same animal, different price.  Funny how that works.


I think he was talking more about the literal monetary value of the spider. I agree with him - it's a shame when a spider (or any animal) becomes so cheap that they're viewed as a disposable pet. P. murinus, B. albopilosum, B. vagans, etc.

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## AphonopelmaTX (Aug 22, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> _'Devalue.'_  I know what you mean.  I *hate *when spiders become affordable for the average spider person to own and enjoy.  It just* ruins* that species.  The most important thing about a spider isn't it's looks or behavior, it's the artificial and arbitrary price tags we put on them.  That's what matters.  Everyone knows that the 'good' species are expensive, and once they're no longer expensive, they're not as good either.  Same animal, different price.  Funny how that works.


It really is funny how it all works.  I don't understand tarantula keepers as a whole sometimes.  A couple of hundred dollars for an exotic spider (a living thing nonetheless) is too much, but paying the same or more for the phones, tablets, computers, and every other "want" people have these days to complain about the price of exotic tarantula species on the internet is fine.  I don't get it.

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## Matabuey (Aug 22, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> That's why we have spiders, and I assume that's why you do too: price.


No.

I have them because they're pretty and interesting animals. Price doesn't come into it, until it becomes excessively prohibitive to keep a diverse collection. 

My point was just that, the invert community has it pretty good and see no reason why anyone would complain.

Prices are never prohibitively expensive, and prices fall quickly due to the sheer amount of babies produced. Compared with rare animals in other hobbies. One of my friends bought 3 B.parviocula, for around €3000 each, 6 years ago - the price is practically the same today for CB 16's. Even though they've been bred by several people in Europe each year. That's still prohibitive for a lot of people.

I think people should be grateful, that the market allows the large majority of people to maintain large collections and access rare animals. Without needing to remortgage the house! (Some people I know have remortgaged their house to buy rare snakes haha).

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## Poec54 (Aug 22, 2016)

Matabuey said:


> I think people should be grateful, that the market allows the large majority of people to maintain large collections and access rare animals.


 
You sound like the dealers in the mid 2000's who could make $5,000 to $10,000 from a* single* egg sac.  That's big money in the spider world (not for a high roller like yourself, mind you); reptile analogies don't apply; maybe if you priced both by pound it would be more comparable.  Yes, I am very thankful that we're able to keep these tropical animals (_you have no idea, I've been collecting tarantulas since the early 1970's_), but tarantula prices in Europe are significantly lower than the US, and the hobby's much larger because far more people there are able to afford them.  Somehow that system of affordability works for them.  What we're up against in the US is trying to get people to spend $100 for a 1/2" bug.  That's always going to be a tough sell to all but the most devoted.

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## Matabuey (Aug 22, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> You sound like the dealers in the mid 2000's who could make $5,000 to $10,000 from a* single* egg sac.  That's big money in the spider world (not for a high roller like yourself, mind you); reptile analogies don't apply; maybe if you priced both by pound it would be more comparable.  Yes, I am very thankful that we're able to keep these tropical animals (_you have no idea, I've been collecting tarantulas since the early 1970's_), but tarantula prices in Europe are significantly lower than the US, and the hobby's much larger because far more people there are able to afford them.  Somehow that system of affordability works for them.  What we're up against in the US is trying to get people to spend $100 for a 1/2" bug.  That's always going to be a tough sell to all but the most devoted.


I don't know why you enjoy putting words into people's mouths. Never said I was a high roller. 

Besides, if you don't want to compare to snakes, as they weigh much more...people buy dwarf geckos, that are a few inches long for £100's on the regular. They do so in America too.

Doesn't detract from the fact T's are very affordable in America and Europe, even the rarest. And those who would consider buying a tarantula the moment it becomes available to the market, are the most devoted.


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## Poec54 (Aug 22, 2016)

EulersK said:


> I think he was talking more about the literal monetary value of the spider. I agree with him - it's a shame when a spider (or any animal) becomes so cheap that they're viewed as a disposable pet. P. murinus, B. albopilosum, B. vagans, etc.


 
No one's saying they should be valued at the freebie level.  Just because someone is able to get top dollar for a new introduction, doesn't mean that when it's propagated and reality sets in, that anything less than that original price is 'devaluation' and 'ruining' the species.  When a $300 species is bred and after a few years drops down to $100, believe me, there's a lot of moaning and groaning in some quarters.  O. violaceopes was initially $425 for CBB slings from Europe, and between breeding and w/c imports became a $30 sling.  There were some pissed off people about that.  But maybe it _really_ is a $30 sling and a few in the beginning were able to get more because it was new.  They were well-rewarded for taking the risk, which I have no problem with; that provides the motivation for people to travel and bring back spiders from remote 3rd world countries.  They* should* make good money.  The issue is that after a few generations the people that 'pile on' and still expect the initial price to be maintained.  They paid a lot less themselves but want_ everyone else_ to still pay the high introductory price.  Or should prices gradually come down, when the supply of that species is 50 or 100 times greater than it was?  I guess it all comes down to which side of the fence you're on.  I'm on both sides: I'm able to breed because prices came down to a level where I can afford them.

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## Poec54 (Aug 22, 2016)

Matabuey said:


> Doesn't detract from the fact T's are very affordable in America and Europe, even the rarest. And those who would consider buying a tarantula the moment it becomes available to the market, are the most devoted.


 
_Much_ more affordable in Europe.  They laugh at what we pay for tarantulas.

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## Matabuey (Aug 22, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> _Much_ more affordable in Europe.  They laugh at what we pay for tarantulas.


I know we do, but it's still affordable. Never heard anyone call the tarantula hobby an expensive one.


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## Poec54 (Aug 22, 2016)

When I was collecting cobras for 9 years in the 1980's & 1990's, most were wild caught.  Indian cobras were considered an ugly, undesirable 'junk species' when they were being imported and sold cheap.  Once India was shut down for exporting animals, prices started to rise & a few people started to breed them.  Throughout the hobby people suddenly changed gears, and Indian cobras became objects of beauty.  They got to be pricey and highly coveted.  Another example of how price tags influence how we see things. 

Keep in mind, what's plentiful and what's rare can change on short notice due to a variety of reasons.  Do our opinions of those animals change too, with availability? Are we looking at the animals on their own merits?

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## Matabuey (Aug 22, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> When I was collecting cobras for 9 years in the 1980's & 1990's, most were wild caught.  Indian cobras were considered an ugly, undesirable 'junk species' when they were being imported and sold cheap.  Once India was shut down for exporting animals, prices started to rise & a few people started to breed them.  Throughout the hobby people suddenly changed gears, and Indian cobras became objects of beauty.  They got to be pricey and highly coveted.  Another example of how price tags influence how we see things.
> 
> Keep in mind, what's plentiful and what's rare can change on short notice due to a variety of reasons.  Do our opinions of those animals change too, with availability? Are we looking at the animals on their own merits?


Yeah, I think it's pretty pathetic how some people only like something if it's rare or expensive.

I have friends like that, and will never understand it. But each to their own I guess.

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## YagerManJennsen (Aug 22, 2016)

EulersK said:


> @viper69
> 
> That was strangely worded, I admit. In my experience with Chilobrachys, they won't burrow at all if you provide enough webbing anchor points. It's almost as if they make their burrows out of the webbing. Not sure if this is what's actually happening, but it's the only explanation I can come up with. If little or no anchor points are provided, they turn into a skittish pet hole.


What if you provide anchor points and they web up but then decide "hey, ill burrow down underneath the web" literally what mine did last night.

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## Jeff23 (Aug 23, 2016)

As a new person in the hobby I am still buying the base species that all of you either own or did own and have moved on to other new different species.  I love the spiders for their merits and their beauty at this point in my interest (and beauty is in the eye of the beholder on everything).

I don't know if I will one day breed them, but one of the problems for me on these new species is the complication of how you would get a female spider.  I am less interested in the spider on this thread since I am currently only looking at NW's.  I was excited about the beauty of the Theraphosinae sp. 'Panama'.  The price is close to $150 for a 1/3" spiderling, but if I want a female I have to play the game of odds and buy multiple spiders (buying three seems to be a good number).  So while a spider may not be expensive at $150 it cost $450 if you want your odds to go up so you have a female.  Based on this situation it generally also gives you odds of having a male and female but then you sidetrack into the "inbreeding" arguments so you would need a second spider from a different source (depending on your opinion on this subject).  So the cost does go up quite a bit if the spider is fetching a large price and you want to one day breed this rare spider.  Some of these rare spiders are only available from a single source.  I have seen the mention of a few rare spiders where one can not find a mate for breeding here in the US (Euathlus Species Yellow as an example).

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## Matabuey (Aug 23, 2016)

Jeff23 said:


> As a new person in the hobby I am still buying the base species that all of you either own or did own and have moved on to other new different species.  I love the spiders for their merits and their beauty at this point in my interest (and beauty is in the eye of the beholder on everything).
> 
> I don't know if I will one day breed them, but one of the problems for me on these new species is the complication of how you would get a female spider.  I am less interested in the spider on this thread since I am currently only looking at NW's.  I was excited about the beauty of the  The price is close to $150 for a 1/3" spiderling, but if I want a female I have to play the game of odds and buy multiple spiders (buying three seems to be a good number).  So while a spider may not be expensive at $150 it cost $450 if you want your odds to go up so you have a female.  Based on this situation it generally also gives you odds of having a male and female but then you sidetrack into the "inbreeding" arguments so you would need a second spider from a different source (depending on your opinion on this subject).  So the cost does go up quite a bit if the spider is fetching a large price and you want to one day breed this rare spider.  Some of these rare spiders are only available from a single source.  I have seen the mention of a few rare spiders where one can not find a mate for breeding here in the US (Euathlus Species Yellow as an example).


By the way, if you want to buy a Theraphosinae sp. 'Panama', send me a pm, i will send you a link to where you can get one with shipping to USA for $100 - They have 4, 3cm females. From a very, very highly respectable source. Haven't linked it here, as I'm not sure I'm allowed to link things like that.

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## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (Aug 23, 2016)

Matabuey said:


> By the way, if you want to buy a Theraphosinae sp. 'Panama', send me a pm, i will send you a link to where you can get one with shipping to USA for $100 - They have 4, 3cm females. From a very, very highly respectable source. Haven't linked it here, as I'm not sure I'm allowed to link things like that.


 So are you encouraging him to illegally brown box to the US? Or are you assuming  he has all the legal paper work?

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## Poec54 (Aug 23, 2016)

Jeff23 said:


> one of the problems for me on these new species is the complication of how you would get a female spider... The price is close to $150 for a 1/3" spiderling, but if I want a female I have to play the game of odds and buy multiple spiders (buying three seems to be a good number).  So while a spider may not be expensive at $150 it cost $450 if you want your odds to go up so you have a female.
> Based on this situation it generally also gives you odds of having a male and female but then you sidetrack into the "inbreeding" arguments so you would need a second spider from a different source (depending on your opinion on this subject)


 
- There is no reason to assume tarantula sex ratios are equal.  Humans have 3 percentage points more males at birth, but with losses along the way (risk taking, competition for territory/females, and acting stupid in general) by the time they're adults, the ratio is equal.  There are many variables in a tarantula's habit (predators, distance to females, concentration of females, foliage cover, etc) that influence whether a species needs more males or more females. 

- I usually get 5 to 10 slings of a species at a time, to ensure a female or two.  You can also negotiate a better price that way.  From what I've seen, overall males have run 60-65%, but that varies per species and is partially luck.  It's far more often that I've had more males from a group of slings, than a majority of females. 

- Almost all of the species in the US have come from small groups bred in Europe.  Most of those are from one time collections in the wild, as it's too expensive to travel all over the world for a few spiders.  Since almost all countries have shut down wild animal exports, this hobby would be almost non-existent without inbreeding. How many specimens of Poecilotheria do you think have been collected in the wild?

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## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (Aug 23, 2016)

tnerd93 said:


> not a big deal, ive bought 3 t's from a guy in germany, why not when i saved over 200$ lol. acting all holier than thou  bet a lot of your ts have traceback to illegal imports from europe, going to sell them now?


 I did not state whether I agree or disagree, but merely asked a question.  However, you have just admitted you illegally import on a public forum that does not condone, in fact is against, illegal importation. Good luck with that lol...can't wait to see the comments come in

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## Jeff23 (Aug 23, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> - There is no reason to assume tarantula sex ratios are equal.  Humans have 3 percentage points more males at birth, but with losses along the way (risk taking, competition for territory/females, and acting stupid in general) by the time they're adults, the ratio is equal.  There are many variables in a tarantula's habit (predators, distance to females, concentration of females, foliage cover, etc) that influence whether a species needs more males or more females.
> 
> - I usually get 5 to 10 slings of a species at a time, to ensure a female or two.  You can also negotiate a better price that way.  From what I've seen, overall males have run 60-65%, but that varies per species and is partially luck.  It's far more often that I've had more males from a group of slings, than a majority of females.
> 
> - Almost all of the species in the US have come from small groups bred in Europe.  Most of those are from one time collections in the wild, as it's too expensive to travel all over the world for a few spiders.  Since almost all countries have shut down wild animal exports, this hobby would be almost non-existent without inbreeding. How many specimens of Poecilotheria do you think have been collected in the wild?


Thanks for that extremely valuable information.  One of the problems I have as a new owner is that I am still reading many threads that are multiple years old.  I also am still working for find sources for quantity (going through the classifieds, etc.).  So far all but one of my purchases were from the standard internet sources that everybody knows about from Google.  My prior purchases of small slings have mostly been counts of three just from the typical odds increase over buying two of them (if assuming 50/50 odds for a female on each spider).  And while I really don't know enough to have opinions on the "inbreeding" issue I did notice that some people who worried about it claimed to compensate by insuring the weakest T's from the sac don't survive (leave the slings together for slightly longer period).

I want to also apologize for derailing the subject.  I am still a ways off from having the skill to even consider an OW T.  The chilobrachy electric blue is definitely a beautiful spider in my view.


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## John Apple (Aug 23, 2016)

the illegal activity is still rampant ....still going on....they get busted ...serve their time and then start all over again under an assumed name or a partners name...part of the wholesale to the public situation happening  .
ahh but yeah I do onderstand 'electric blue' just don't agree with it . But it did catch my eye more than a location would. I am that guy though that would rather buy a 'location' spider more than a jazzed up adjective spider.

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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 23, 2016)

tnerd93 said:


> not a big deal, ive bought 3 t's from a guy in germany, why not when i saved over 200$ lol. acting all holier than thou  bet a lot of your ts have traceback to illegal imports from europe, going to sell them now?


lol, you saved $200. 'Cool'. But *without *the right import papers and that bureaucrecy stuff, brown boxing *remain*, no matter the happy end, brown boxing.

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## Matabuey (Aug 23, 2016)

Exoskeleton Invertebrates said:


> I did not state whether I agree or disagree, but merely asked a question.  However, you have just admitted you illegally import on a public forum that does not condone, in fact is against, illegal importation. Good luck with that lol...can't wait to see the comments come in


I don't think anyone actually cares.

The forum is against it to be politically correct, not because anyone actually disagrees with it behind closed doors. If everyone were truly against it, you wouldn't have the tarantulas you do right now, nor would anyone else on this forum.

Illegal importation is what this hobby is founded upon.

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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 23, 2016)

tnerd93 said:


> the buyer is not the one who gets in trouble its the one doing the exporting like in every single case thats happened before
> 
> so purchasing illegal imported t's doesnt affect me at all and the way they send the parcel has 0 traceback to the sender too, very simple way
> 
> dont know why all you lot are caring about illegally imported t's when the majority of your animals have come from illegally imported ts but go sit on your high horse now lol


lol, keep living in your 'Dream World', but reality differs.

The buyer *needs *to know that what he/she is, literally, importing, if that is allowed by his/her nation laws. And to order T's from Europe (or what else) to US, again, without the proper import papers, is brown boxing. And that practice isn't legal.

Do you think that, if a parcel full of T's is spotted in the airport by the US customs, the ones in troubles would been the guys in UK or Poland or etc and nothing to the US citizen that ordered those? :-s

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## Matabuey (Aug 23, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> lol, keep living in your 'Dream World', but reality differs.
> 
> The buyer *needs *to know that what he/she is, literally, importing, if that is allowed by his/her nation laws. And to order T's from Europe (or what else) to US, again, without the proper import papers, is brown boxing. And that practice isn't legal.
> 
> Do you think that, if a parcel full of T's is spotted in the airport by the US customs, the ones in troubles would been the guys in UK or Poland or etc and nothing to US citizen that ordered those? :-s


Actually, they go after the exporter. Such as in Sven Kopplers case, they would've had details on plenty of his customers in the US, and guess what..None have been prosecuted, otherwise you'd be looking at 1000's of T keepers in the US being hit with court cases (from that particular case and others).

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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 23, 2016)

Matabuey said:


> Actually, they go after the importer. Such as in Sven Kopplers case, they would've had details on plenty of his customers in the US, and guess what..None have been prosecuted, otherwise you'd be looking at 1000's of T keepers in the US being hit with court cases.


I think Sven's case is different because he was an hardcore T's exporter, a sort of 'Boss' at the end. It's normal to stop him. My example was (like happened) the American keeper that order the average T's parcel from UK, or else, without the import papers in full brown boxing. This happened, and probably still happens, of course.

I'm not saying jail or what else, I don't know this. But I think that the bucks saved for those T's 'European steal prices' would crumble in front of the money you will have to pay for importing T's that way. I doubt that, in such a case, someone from the US authorities would knock a UK or Poland, or what else door for that.

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## Matabuey (Aug 23, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> I think Sven's case is different because he was an hardcore T's exporter, a sort of 'Boss' at the end. It's normal to stop him. My example was (like happened) the American keeper that order the average T's parcel from UK, or else, without the import papers in full brown boxing. This happened, and probably still happens, of course.
> 
> I'm not saying jail or what else, I don't know this. But I think that the bucks saved for those T's 'European steal prices' would crumble in front of the money you will have to pay for importing T's that way. I doubt that, in such a case, someone from the US authorities would knock a UK or Poland, or what else door for that.


It costs too much money to take people to court over ordering a few tarantulas, it's effectively a waste of time/money for the government.

You don't think people that have bought a couple of T's from Europe, haven't had their parcels intercepted? If they had, and were charged, you would most certainly hear about it. And I've never heard anything of the sort, and i have quite a few friends that's keep T's in America. Would be interesting to see if anyone knows of any buyers that have been prosecuted.


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## Venom1080 (Aug 23, 2016)

tnerd93 said:


> not a big deal, ive bought 3 t's from a guy in germany, why not when i saved over 200$ lol. acting all holier than thou  bet a lot of your ts have traceback to illegal imports from europe, going to sell them now?


what your problem?? being illegal, its kind of a big deal..

Reactions: Agree 6 | Funny 1


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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 23, 2016)

Matabuey said:


> It costs too much money to take people to court over ordering a few tarantulas, it's effectively a waste of time/money for the government.
> 
> You don't think people that have bought a couple of T's from Europe, haven't had their parcels intercepted? If they had, and were charged, you would most certainly hear about it. And I've never heard anything of the sort, and i have quite a few friends that's keep T's in America. Would be interesting to see if anyone knows of any buyers that have been prosecuted.


Doesn't matter: we don't live, no matter how much advanced in technology US is as a nation, in a full controlled world. Yet. It's like playing Russian Roulette. They can't control, check, full X-Ray completely all the parcels, for that we are living in a world where competition is high, and the more faster the parcel/stuff are delivered, the best.

Here in Italy there's folks ordering T's online, obviously. I can guarantee you that, if spotted, they would end in a ocean of poop, without *nothing *to the exporting guys save for a mere detail note, for that, in those nations, that could be legal, or what else, but definitely "it's the buyer responsibility to know if what he/she ordered is legal in his/her nation".

Btw don't know about the US but here people ends in courts for much less.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Philth (Aug 23, 2016)

Names like " electric blue" and "black Satan" are absolutely a marketing ploy.  That's obvious.

@tnerd93 You are grossly misinformed.

Later, Tom

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 7


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## Toxoderidae (Aug 23, 2016)

@tnerd93  all my spiders are from a couple generations, or MORE of CB babies. a decade or so's worth of CB babies through generations trickled down to keepers like me. Mine weren't brought in illegally, and I won't ever purchase an imported animal without knowing about where they come from and how they got in. Educate yourself before you post.

This thread is about to explode.

Reactions: Dislike 1 | Agree 1 | Disagree 1 | Funny 2


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## tnerd93 (Aug 23, 2016)

Toxoderidae said:


> @tnerd93  all my spiders are from a couple generations, or MORE of CB babies. a decade or so's worth of CB babies through generations trickled down to keepers like me. Mine weren't brought in illegally, and I won't ever purchase an imported animal without knowing about where they come from and how they got in. Educate yourself before you post.
> 
> This thread is about to explode.


hahaha

you have absolutely no idea where your animals have come from, just because some breeder says its from breeding x doesnt mean it is. people lie to sell their animals, welcome to the real world. 

not to mention people can bring in 30 p.mets and say they were from their adult p.mets, what you going to do dna analysis now? nah didnt think so dude

secondly, my point was that any cb babies being produced somewhere down their bloodline are illegal parents

there are plenty of illegal t's being sent to america each month, some of them will be reading this and sniggering. those ts will produce babies that some of you will buy in 2 years and youll be none the wiser.

Reactions: Dislike 2


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## tnerd93 (Aug 23, 2016)

Philth said:


> Names like " electric blue" and "black Satan" are absolutely a marketing plow.  That's obvious.
> 
> @tnerd93 You are grossly misinformed.
> 
> Later, Tom


yes im grossly misinformed that plenty of "illegal" ts are accepted into the us every month for years now, thus producing a lot of the cb babies you buy today, take the blinkers off lol

the t hobby, reptile hobby, amphib hobby, most hobbies has illegal trade in it and often blooms because of it

if it wasnt for illegal trade the t market in north america would be even worse than it is, be thankful for it

Reactions: Dislike 2 | Disagree 1


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## Toxoderidae (Aug 23, 2016)

@tnerd93 can you back up this information? Because you haven't brought up any EVIDENCE. Members like @Exoskeleton Invertebrates have imported specimens before, and you know WHY P. metallica and other desirable "rare" species are desirable and "rare"? Because importation has been closed off, and its incredibly strict. @louise f got her package, and her spiders seized because they weren't checked by a vet, and other spiders can be seized for not having CITES papers. As it turns out, a lot of spiders in the hobby are endangered or critically endangered, so these officials have to check the boxes, especially if the animal in question is a CITES animal. 

Don't say anything else about this "all tarantulas in the hobby are from illegal imports" unless you can bring up evidence.
I'm done with talking to you.

Reactions: Agree 4 | Disagree 1


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## Kodi (Aug 23, 2016)

Okay people I started this thread to talk about the relatively new Chilobrachys species not illegal importing. Shoo.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 3


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## Angel Minkov (Aug 23, 2016)

lol, its so satisfying hearing about the prices in America and then looking them up here, then I look at the state of my country and I get sad haha but I'm trying my best to give information to breeders from your part of the world. if anyone ever needs some info, i'd do my best to fetch it for you ^^ 

now, on topic - they're kept like all other Chilobrachys - enough damp substrate to burrow, room temps and perhaps branches as anchor points. Tom Patterson has some of these, he could give you great advice on just about any genus out there ^^

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Exoskeleton Invertebrates (Aug 23, 2016)

Kodi said:


> Okay people I started this thread to talk about the relatively new Chilobrachys species not illegal importing. Shoo.


Well Kodi,

You now have information on the origin of the "electrics", the care/feeding of them, the housing of them, why they are called or should be called "electric" (different opinions ), why they should be or should not be priced high or low, where to buy them legally , or where to buy them illegally lol....

You should be good to go and if not you could go to the source of who you spoke of having them for sale in the first place through pm and they can probably answer anything else for ya....

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## Steve123 (Aug 24, 2016)

Kodi said:


> Okay people I started this thread to talk about the relatively new Chilobrachys species not illegal importing. Shoo.


Unfortunately, when you talk about the new C. sp. electric blue, you may also be talking about legal/illegal importation. Last year, when I inquired about legal importation from the vendor who “found” electric blue, here is the response I got (the only thing edited is John Doe):

*From:* spidersworld.eu [mailto:spidersworld.eu@gmail.com]
*Sent:* Tuesday, July 07, 2015 1:11 PM
*To: *John Doe
*Subject:* Re: iimport to US

Hello John

Full list of available species are always on www.spidersworld.eu I made few times a full list in one document but it was always not actual after few days. We have more then 100 species available and everything is changing very fast. For example I will add today about 6 species to offer.
About shipping. In Europe we don't have to have any licence to shipping Ts. The best option to send to US is official cargo but it make sense only in very big orders because it cost about 1000$. I have sent some packages to US. I use polish post and send as Global Expres letter. It looks like normal package but I don't need to fill in declaration what is inside package. There is of course a risk that package will be check by customs and I don't know what will happen then if there is no license inside. That is the reason that I send only on buyers risk in international shipping. I can't check law in each country so I left decision to my clients. I will reply for all questions Ir you have any more ;-)

Regards
John Doe

Reactions: Agree 2 | Informative 2 | Funny 1


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## Philth (Aug 24, 2016)

This thread has become a cesspool of illegal activity.  Nice to know that legal importers are paying "about 1000$" to bring spiders legally to the U.S. are getting screwed by the same scumbag dealers and brown boxers who are willing to ship to private collectors illegally, screwing over their larger wholesale legal clients.  What a great hobby lol.

Later, Tom

Reactions: Agree 3 | Face Palm 1


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## petkokc (Aug 24, 2016)

From what I know/was told, slings from first cocoon in Europe were from already gravid WC female. They were sold for 175€ each, and now apparently Spidershop.pl got first cocoon from captive breeding so I expect the price to go down even more.

Regarding the naming, I prefer to call it Chilobrachys "Khao sok" but I understand why they go for more "intriguing" name, I would probably do the same thing if that was my source of income. Same thing goes for price, It is not a cheap thing to go to Thailand, stay there long enough to find the species and take it back to your country. Of course they want to cover all the expenses and to make money on it. Also, if someone thinks it is too expensive, just don't buy it, no one is forcing anyone to buy new Tarantula as soon as it hits the market. I want it, badly, but cant afford it, so I will just wait (and silently hate on everyone that got it  )

Just my two cents...

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Kodi (Aug 24, 2016)

@advan Can you close this thread? It has to be breaking some rule or five.

Reactions: Lollipop 1


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## advan (Aug 24, 2016)

Matabuey said:


> Actually, they go after the exporter. Such as in Sven Kopplers case, they would've had details on plenty of his customers in the US, and guess what..None have been prosecuted.


You are incorrect. They did use Sven and busted a lot of US citizens. Especially ones that ordered _Brachypelma_. 

The thing is majority of the spiders we have in the hobby were originally illegally collected and brought to Europe. Once those spiders are bred and the CB spiders are LEGALLY imported into the US with permits, paperwork and an inspection, they are legal. Did the polish get collecting permits from Thailand to collect out of a national park? Doubt it.  

DO NOT condone or endorse illegal brown boxing on this forum. It is against the rules, against the good of the US hobby and actually very stupid. USFWS does monitor this site. Tread lightly.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 4 | Optimistic 1 | Award 1


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