# New, improved Baboon cage



## Pacmaster (Feb 14, 2009)

After yesterdays escape attempt, and the thought of having to always unsnap a deli cup lid, I decided to build my own cage.
Its the small-size critterkeeper with an epoxied and bolted  hinged plexiglass lid.
The locks are L-brackets.
I buried a clear  1" tube along one side, and an opening comes up in the rock pile.
There is also a giant seed pod on the other side if it wants that to use.
My theory is that if it makes its home in the seed pod it would be easy to block off and remove for cage maintenence.
Also, are the watercrystals a decent way to provide water to a tarantula?

What do you guys think?


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## Sterlingspider (Feb 14, 2009)

OooooooooooooOOOOooooo. :clap: 

That idea may very well fix a minor problem I have been having with the Herp Haven enclosures I've been using. I really detest the opaque lids on the KK type cages but they are *so* handy.

Though I would re-engineer the "lock" you have on it so that you don't have screws sticking into the enclosure. 

Watercrystals are useless to a tarantula. As long as the water dish is apropriately sized to the specimen the only tarantula in any danger of drowning is already nearly on its deathbed anyway.

If you are worried about crickets drowning in the dish just put a few small clean rocks or marbles in the water.


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## ph0bia (Feb 14, 2009)

A tarantula cannot drink from water crystals and they provide little to no moisture to the enclosure. Use a water dish, so long as the spider can walk out of it when it's empty then they can walk out of it when full. The spider can actually remain fully submerged for a surprising time, so as long as the spider can walk out of the dish (ie, dish not water well) it's fine.

Very nice enclosure though! Very very nice!


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## Pacmaster (Feb 14, 2009)

The locks top screws can be pulled in and out, they arent screwed in.
I used long screws so that the spider has no chance of jimmying the lock with repeated attempts.
It makes me and my roommate feel better anyways . . .

I plan on making a similar cage for my regalis, but vertical.

Some advice- if you plan to put holes in the critterkeeper-type cages, use a soddering iron and melt the holes, drills tear that kinda plastic up. And if you make the hole a bit smaller than needed and thread a screw into it while still hot, it makes a nice threaded hole that can be unscrewd.


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## Pacmaster (Feb 14, 2009)

ph0bia said:


> A tarantula cannot drink from water crystals and they provide little to no moisture to the enclosure. Use a water dish, so long as the spider can walk out of it when it's empty then they can walk out of it when full. The spider can actually remain fully submerged for a surprising time, so as long as the spider can walk out of the dish (ie, dish not water well) it's fine.
> 
> Very nice enclosure though! Very very nice!


Thankyou, Ill change the crystals out.
The water bowl is the right size I think.
The spider itself is only like a silver dollar or so.
How are they measured anyways?


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## Skullptor (Feb 14, 2009)

I like the enclosure design but it would love it very deep! I would take out the rocks and fill it up to within 3 or 4" to the top. It'll be so happy, You'd never see it again.


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## Pacmaster (Feb 14, 2009)

Would covering 3 sides with dark paper help the T feel more secure?


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## Pacmaster (Feb 14, 2009)

Skullptor said:


> I like the enclosure design but it would love it very deep! I would take out the rocks and fill it up to within 3 or 4" to the top. It'll be so happy, You'd never see it again.


Thats the exact reason I dont have sooo much substrate in there.
It has about 2-4" in spots, and a couple options for hides/burrows.
I also was trying to give myself some "finger-room" in there, so the T is not right there when the the door is lifted.

I tried to balance the Ts need to burrow, with my need to see it.
If I see its not very happy, Ill add some more depth for it.
The spider is not very big right now.


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## MelGibson (Feb 14, 2009)

Amphibioman said:


> Would covering 3 sides with dark paper help the T feel more secure?


You could but you wont get to enjoy him yourself. as long as you fill up the kk with aobut twice the dirt hill make a burrow thatll make him feel more secure. i would also take the rocks out, they can fall on em and it can be fatal. nice design! ive never seen a KK lid as nice as that.


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## biomarine2000 (Feb 14, 2009)

I have to say I'm really impressed with the simple design change.  The one thing I hate about the critter keeper is the colored lid.  That takes that away and incorperates a very clear and easy viewing and feeding lid.  Good idea.  Why didn't I think of that?


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## Skullptor (Feb 14, 2009)

Amphibioman said:


> Would covering 3 sides with dark paper help the T feel more secure?


No. The setup is denying it it's natural instinct to burrow. It's not uncommon for people who want to display their KB to deny it the ability to borrow. I make no judgment about those who choose this kind of setup. I have a young KB that I give it a large amount of substrate. I never see it and I'm fine with that right now. Maybe when it gets full grown I'll give in to the temptation of denying it this penchant to fulfill my desire of wanting to see it all the time.


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## Sterlingspider (Feb 14, 2009)

Amphibioman said:


> The locks top screws can be pulled in and out, they arent screwed in.
> I used long screws so that the spider has no chance of jimmying the lock with repeated attempts.
> It makes me and my roommate feel better anyways . . .
> 
> ...


You can buy acrylic hasp type locks that don't extend into the cage at all (so no jimmying) and from what I've read epoxy should work on either of those plastics. Also great for keeping people _out_ too (less then trustworthy visitors or overly inquisitive children; for example).







Good to know about drilling the plastic though, thanks.


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## Pacmaster (Feb 14, 2009)

With the lip around the edge of a critterkeeper, that type lock would be difficult to make work.
I do like those, very unobtrusive, just wont work for my needs.

I keep my herp room locked when kids are here, and most of alot of my friends wouldnt go in there anyways, they definately would never open something in there.
The lock is more for my and my roommates peace of mind, we can see it and know its locked and the spider is inside.


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## Sterlingspider (Feb 14, 2009)

Amphibioman said:


> With the lip around the edge of a critterkeeper, that type lock would be difficult to make work.
> I do like those, very unobtrusive, just wont work for my needs.


I can see where it would be a problem, but I can also think of a few workarounds and that's only the first type of that lock I found in a quick google search.

Either way I would be VERY uncomfortable with something that could so easily tear open a tarantula's abdomen just hanging into a cage like that.


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## Pacmaster (Feb 14, 2009)

I see your point, does that species climb enough for that to be an issue?
I thought they are referred to as "pet holes" . . .


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## Sterlingspider (Feb 14, 2009)

Amphibioman said:


> I see your point, does that species climb enough for that to be an issue?
> I thought they are referred to as "pet holes" . . .


It's not _likely_ to be a problem, but expecting a tarantula not to do something that could hurt it is much like expecting the same of a three year old.  

They are neither entirely predictable or particularly smart (tarantulas that is... as far as three year old it totally depends on the child and what it's doing).

Besides that, if you weren't worried about it climbing you wouldn't have to be worried about locking the lid in the first place.


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## GartenSpinnen (Feb 14, 2009)

I think the whole thing is over kill, its a tarantula.... not a polar bear. The bolts hanging through the enclosure could easily cause injury. The substrate is not nearly deep enough to provide proper burrowing. The water crystals supply absolutely no purpose to the tarantula whatsoever, they cannot hydrate themselves through them, they need water. The rocks with the cage height are just asking for a ruptured abdomen from a fall. 

5.00 cereal container from walmart. Drill holes for ventilation. Fill all the way up with substrate, put in a water dish with actual water in it and you have a comfortable and secure enclosure for your T where it will be able to exist without injury, and make a proper burrow. 

10.00 kritter keeper will also work (if it is not modified with bolts sticking through it), and so will a 5.5 gallon terrarium  with a properly secured screen enclosure. 

My 0.02.

-Nate


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## gumby (Feb 14, 2009)

If it were my enclosure id add 4" more soil get ride of the rocks. Us enone metal screws as I mist often and would worry about rust and I would use a differnt type of water dish for that set up maybe make a small pond dug in.


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## Pacmaster (Feb 14, 2009)

Im trying to think of a way to deal with the screws.
So far the spider has showed no signs of going vertical.

I changed the crystals out to water already.

I may add some more substrate.

Are they that delicate that brushing against the rocks or screws will kill them?


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## Sterlingspider (Feb 14, 2009)

Amphibioman said:


> Are they that delicate that brushing against the rocks or screws will kill them?


Their abdomens are fairly soft and thin. 

Think of what would happen to a soft buttery leather jacket scraping against the end of that screw. 

Now make it a soft buttery leather _water balloon_ and that should give you some idea.

That water dish is a _smidge_ large but not grievously so.


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## scar is my t (Feb 14, 2009)

you should make cages for people although they are just kritter keepers with better lids but yea modifie  stuff into cages like rubbermaid containers people would buy


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## biomarine2000 (Feb 14, 2009)

scar is my t said:


> you should make cages for people although they are just kritter keepers with better lids but yea modifie  stuff into cages like rubbermaid containers people would buy


I think people would buy them.  When I took a look at first I thought you actually made the whole thing.  I liked your idea I went to walmart and bought the parts to modify mine.  Thanks for the info.


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## christian77 (Feb 14, 2009)

Amphibioman said:


> I see your point, does that species climb enough for that to be an issue?
> I thought they are referred to as "pet holes" . . .


the are usually only pet holes if you give then deep enough substrate to burrow in. they are very oppotunistic burrowers. If you want to make it happy let it do what they love to do. BURROW!


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## Austin S. (Feb 15, 2009)

WOW. Great looking settup, that is such a great idea. But I have to agree with the others, give this guy more 'strate. Just because you add more, does not mean you will never see it again. What I do with all my C. crawshayis is start a premade burrow right against the glass. They take to it well and as long as that side if covered up with a shirt or something, they will keep burrowing right up against it. 

Here is one of my adult females:






I've kept that side covered since putting her in there and shes burrowed all the way to the bottom, right up next to the glass.


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## lmramsey89 (Feb 15, 2009)

Amphibioman said:


> Im trying to think of a way to deal with the screws.
> So far the spider has showed no signs of going vertical.
> 
> I changed the crystals out to water already.
> ...


It's not the "brushing up against" the rocks, its the fact that if it indeed decides one day to go out for a nice climb then falls, the hard rocks (as opposed to soft yummy substrate) could very very easily rupture the abdomen.

The screw thingy has already been addressed by the very nice buttery leather water balloon analogy


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## codykrr (Feb 15, 2009)

ok here is an idea on how to secure the lid without brackets and screws going straight down through the lid....ok....keep the 2 on the sides as is and just use a rubber band streched across the top and loop them around the screws on the side....there you go whalah done...and yeah add some more sub! thats like you in a house with no roof....or....you could just use a cereal container as mentioned before....


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## vvx (Feb 15, 2009)

I like the cage. Takes a pretty cheap base unit but then adds a hinged lid (I've considered doing the same with those display "cubes" you can buy at craft stores). I would try to make the acrylic hinges work. Perhaps the little "blocks" you can buy would make an adequate spacer to move the latch out past the lip.


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## ph0bia (Feb 15, 2009)

jadespider1985 said:


> I think the whole thing is over kill, its a tarantula.... not a polar bear. The bolts hanging through the enclosure could easily cause injury. The substrate is not nearly deep enough to provide proper burrowing. The water crystals supply absolutely no purpose to the tarantula whatsoever, they cannot hydrate themselves through them, they need water. The rocks with the cage height are just asking for a ruptured abdomen from a fall.
> 
> 5.00 cereal container from walmart. Drill holes for ventilation. Fill all the way up with substrate, put in a water dish with actual water in it and you have a comfortable and secure enclosure for your T where it will be able to exist without injury, and make a proper burrow.
> 
> ...


Some people need to read the previous posts.

I think the cage is brilliant though using screws like that as a lock may be overkill. I've not seen spiders able to push up a lid that's held down with sticky tape. If in real doubt could you not use a series of knobs (one on the lid, one on the side) tied together or a mechanism similar to padlocks on gates?

More substrate than shown would indeed be an idea however, and would counter the problem of the T falling onto the rocks. There's nothing wrong with using rocks in enclosures, but make sure the T cannot get '1.5 x it's legspan' above the rock and the fall will be no issue.

I personally think it's a really nice enclosure as I personally hate those wildly coloured KK lids that also are horrible to get off (and often the loud 'thwack' of opening the plastic door or trying to lift the lid off) is enough to send the spider packing for the deepest corner of its burrow.

Personally, if I can, I use these for my smaller Ts (like my B.smithi):
- ExoTerra Breeding Box
And these for my larger species (they are ALL now in some form of Breeding Box or Faunarium, except my H.albostriatum as I don't want to move her):
- ExoTerra Faunarium

My adults (G.rosea, B.auratum and P.chordatus) are all in the PT-2310, my P.murinus juve is in a PT-2265 (as will my H.albo when she needs moving) as it's deep and my A.abberans juve is in a PT-2300 to give some idea.

Those doors don't 'snap' open (they gently slide unlocked then lift silently) and the lid itself is amazingly secure.

That said, I think your enclosure is very well constructed and brilliant, save for the screws.


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## gumby (Feb 15, 2009)

So as far as rocks go I will personally never use them in one of my set ups because they are more abrasive then other surfaces that could be used in an enclosure. Also I think if you must have rocks in your set up that it is much more safe to place them in the center of the cage so that if the T does climb theere is still something soft to fall onto near the walls. If you cant see how rocks could be potencially harmful then you may want to try dropping an egg from 1.5 whatever the length might be onto different surfaces and see what you come up with for data. I think that once you do this you will be less likely to use rocks. 

Am I saying a T and an egg will break in the same way? NO Am I saying that a T and an egg both have gooey center? YES. Do I think you will have a see the same result if you drop either one on a rock? YES!


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## ph0bia (Feb 15, 2009)

Hence my comment about height. At 1.5x legspan, a tarantula could fall onto grit or concrete and be fine.


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## D-back (Feb 15, 2009)

ph0bia said:


> Hence my comment about height. At 1.5x legspan, a tarantula could fall onto grit or concrete and be fine.


I'm not sure about this...:? .....Especially if the T is fat with an abdomen like a tennis ball.
If the legspan is 4", 1,5 x 4 is 6"....that's a lot...


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## ph0bia (Feb 15, 2009)

D-back said:


> I'm not sure about this...:? .....Especially if the T is fat with an abdomen like a tennis ball.
> If the legspan is 4", 1,5 x 4 is 6"....that's a lot...


Firstly that's not a healthy size for your tarantula.  

Tarantulas have no concept of 'overweight' or 'overfeeding'. Remember that most species are opportunistic eaters. They wait for prey to come to them, so some weeks they may get multiple meals per day, other weeks that may be lucky to get anything. If you throw food at your tarantula, generally, i will continue to eat - the tarantulas reasoning is that there may come an extended period with no food.

Secondly, at this height of 1.5 legspan, remember the tarantula isn't 'falling' 4"-6", it's more rolling backwards. There is exceedingly little chance of injury for ANY tarantula in this instance. Hence the idea of keeping it within legspan dimensions, rather than absolute values.


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## D-back (Feb 15, 2009)

ph0bia said:


> Firstly that's not a healthy size for your tarantula.
> 
> Tarantulas have no concept of 'overweight' or 'overfeeding'. Remember that most species are opportunistic eaters. They wait for prey to come to them, so some weeks they may get multiple meals per day, other weeks that may be lucky to get anything. If you throw food at your tarantula, generally, i will continue to eat - the tarantulas reasoning is that there may come an extended period with no food.
> 
> Secondly, at this height of 1.5 legspan, remember the tarantula isn't 'falling' 4"-6", it's more rolling backwards. There is exceedingly little chance of injury for ANY tarantula in this instance. Hence the idea of keeping it within legspan dimensions, rather than absolute values.


Yes, it's not recommended to owerfeed a T. I'm not doing it.( my geniculata is a bit fatter than my other Ts, but he's definitely not a tennis ball yet ) But despite of this, I've seen LOTS of pics about really fat Ts, so it's a quite common phenomenon.. ..........some of my Ts (not arboreal) like to climbe the walls sometimes. I've seen with my own eyes some pretty violent falls. Somebody told me, that his T had fallen from 5 cm's (2") onto a rock in the enclosure and had died. I don't know, if the T was fat...


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## ph0bia (Feb 15, 2009)

It would have to either be rather fat, they're lying about the distance, a pointed rock or another cause of death. Landing on a flat rock from that distance shouldn't kill even a fat T.

They're fragile, but not _that_ fragile. 

My B.auratum used to try and climb onto the door of her enclosure, in the lid, and would often fall (upside down) a good 2". She was always fine, just a little startled. After I realised it wasn't hurting her, I began to find it amusing.

She seems to have learnt now though.

About lots of people having fat Ts, yes, I've also seen lots of photos of Ts on inappropriate substrate or in entirely unsuitable conditions (a P.regalis being kept as though it were G.rosea?!) so, despite this being a community for enthusiasts, we still have a lot of uneducated people (or idiots who don't listen - I hope the former).


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## gumby (Feb 15, 2009)

It does not bother me that you have an opinion but it does bother me that you are stating things as fact that are your opinion ;P My view is that if there is a chance that my T could rupture I will aviod it. I veiw a rock as an object that is able to cause a chance that my T could rupture.


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## GartenSpinnen (Feb 15, 2009)

Austin S. said:


> WOW. Great looking settup, that is such a great idea. But I have to agree with the others, give this guy more 'strate. Just because you add more, does not mean you will never see it again. What I do with all my C. crawshayis is start a premade burrow right against the glass. They take to it well and as long as that side if covered up with a shirt or something, they will keep burrowing right up against it.
> 
> Here is one of my adult females:
> 
> ...


Now that is a C. crawshayi setup! Very nice  I love it!


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## Pacmaster (Feb 15, 2009)

So thanks for all the compliments and criticism everybody.
I redesigned things a little to fix some of the dangerous issues.

I still have to redo this baboon cage, but my regalis cage is the new and improved version.
All sharp points have been dealt with and the lock has been redesigned to be more efficient, still overkill for some of you, but Im pretty satisfied with the results.
Im going to redo the baboon cage in the next hour.

I dont want the new pics to get lost in the old pages of this thread so Ill make a new post.
Look for the new thread . . .


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## ph0bia (Feb 15, 2009)

gumby said:


> It does not bother me that you have an opinion but it does bother me that you are stating things as fact that are your opinion ;P My view is that if there is a chance that my T could rupture I will aviod it. I veiw a rock as an object that is able to cause a chance that my T could rupture.


It is fact and simple physics that a fall of that distance is not lethal to a tarantula.


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## D-back (Feb 16, 2009)

ph0bia said:


> It is fact and simple physics that a fall of that distance is not lethal to a tarantula.


An opinion becomes a fact, when we can prove it. I'm not sure about the others, but when I say, that the T is 2" high on the glass, I mean that the back legs are at that height. So the abdomen is probably 3" above the surface. Sometimes a T wants to crawl on the lid upside down, so a direct fall ( not just rolling down ) is possible. Can you prove, that a T simply CAN NOT harm himself if he falls on a flat rock? If not, what you said is only an opinion and not a fact.


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## MizM (Feb 16, 2009)

Just curious... what's wrong with a plain old Kritter Keeper? The lids snap closed very securely and unless you have a T doing weight training, they cannot pry them open.

Othe rock issue, I have one G. rosea that has a pet rock. It's shaped more like a tile, thin and flat. I've tried removing it, and she wanders incessantly. When I put it back, she settles herself on it and relaxes. She's lived like that for a good 10 years.

For terrestrials, I use the low Kritter Keepers, they can't climb high enough to damage themselves in a fall. For burrowers, a taller box in necessary, but the substrate SHOULD be much closer to the top. Not only to provide them with burrowing space, but to prevent an injury in a long fall.


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## ph0bia (Feb 16, 2009)

D-back said:


> An opinion becomes a fact, when we can prove it. I'm not sure about the others, but when I say, that the T is 2" high on the glass, I mean that the back legs are at that height. So the abdomen is probably 3" above the surface. Sometimes a T wants to crawl on the lid upside down, so a direct fall ( not just rolling down ) is possible. Can you prove, that a T simply CAN NOT harm himself if he falls on a flat rock? If not, what you said is only an opinion and not a fact.


A T cannot get 2" high on the glass if the lid is 1.5x legspan unless it is 6" legspan. At which point it is mature and the casing around the abdomen is a lot stronger than people make out. It is still soft, but not so that a fall of 0.5x legspan will severely injure it.

Let's put some evidence behind this, if you'd like.

My B.auratum, as I've stated many times, likes to take walks on the roof of her enclosure until she falls off the door. She is 4.5" legspan, the distance between substrate and lid is generally 6-7" (some places it's only 3" but it's never over 7"). Where she falls from the door, directly onto her abdomen, there is a large rock that I recovered and purified from my garden, I'm no geologist, I can't identify the rock, but I know if I threw it at a window, the glass would break, not the rock. It's a hard rock that will absorb practically no impact whatsoever.

The distance between abdomen and rock before the fall is 6", much more than the 2" suggested in your example. She has made this fall _at least_ seven times that I have witnessed and has never been any worse off than a little startled.

She's not overweight, but I'd really not imagine being overweight would matter at the 2-3" we're talking about in your example. If she were dangerously overweight, she'd not get as high as she does; and besides, if your tarantula -is- that overweight, who's fault is it for dangerously overfeeding it?

I could go into physics calculations here, but I really can't be bothered and I don't think anyone would be bothered to read it all. Suffice it to say that if a 6" fall won't hurt a tarantula, 2" definitely won't.

Read through how many people drop tarantulas from over a foot when handling them and the spider survives fine. This 1.5x legspan is what many books suggest (including 'Tarantulas and Scorpions in Captivity' - Russ Gurley, and 'Tarantulas and Other Arachnids' - Samuel Marshall) and the main reason for it is in case the spider gets a foot caught in the lid.


*TLDR:*

A fall of 2" will not harm a 6" spider, and smaller spiders better survive falls anyway. A sling can drop a distance of at least 8x it's bodysize unharmed (from what I've seen a good many times).


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## MizM (Feb 16, 2009)

I respectfully disagree. It depends on how they land and what they land on.


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## GartenSpinnen (Feb 16, 2009)

MizM said:


> Just curious... what's wrong with a plain old Kritter Keeper? The lids snap closed very securely and unless you have a T doing weight training, they cannot pry them open.
> 
> Othe rock issue, I have one G. rosea that has a pet rock. It's shaped more like a tile, thin and flat. I've tried removing it, and she wanders incessantly. When I put it back, she settles herself on it and relaxes. She's lived like that for a good 10 years.
> 
> For terrestrials, I use the low Kritter Keepers, they can't climb high enough to damage themselves in a fall. For burrowers, a taller box in necessary, but the substrate SHOULD be much closer to the top. Not only to provide them with burrowing space, but to prevent an injury in a long fall.


Nicely stated , i agree.


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## ph0bia (Feb 16, 2009)

MizM said:


> Othe rock issue, I have one G. rosea that has a pet rock. It's shaped more like a tile, thin and flat. I've tried removing it, and she wanders incessantly. When I put it back, she settles herself on it and relaxes. She's lived like that for a good 10 years.


A new level of the pet-rock? 



MizM said:


> For terrestrials, I use the low Kritter Keepers, they can't climb high enough to damage themselves in a fall. For burrowers, a taller box in necessary, but the substrate SHOULD be much closer to the top. Not only to provide them with burrowing space, but to prevent an injury in a long fall.


That's what I've been saying xD As long as the substrate is near the top, the fall is not great enough to cause injury.


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## D-back (Feb 16, 2009)

ph0bia said:


> A T cannot get 2" high on the glass if the lid is 1.5x legspan unless it is 6" legspan. At which point it is mature and the casing around the abdomen is a lot stronger than people make out. It is still soft, but not so that a fall of 0.5x legspan will severely injure it.


If the legspan is 4", 1,5 x 4= 6", if the legspan is 6", 6 x 1,5= 9". I can't see why "a T cannot get 2" high on the glass if the lid is 1,5x legspan unless it is 6" legspan"



ph0bia said:


> Let's put some evidence behind this, if you'd like.
> 
> My B.auratum, as I've stated many times, likes to take walks on the roof of her enclosure until she falls off the door. She is 4.5" legspan, the distance between substrate and lid is generally 6-7" (some places it's only 3" but it's never over 7"). Where she falls from the door, directly onto her abdomen, there is a large rock that I recovered and purified from my garden, I'm no geologist, I can't identify the rock, but I know if I threw it at a window, the glass would break, not the rock. It's a hard rock that will absorb practically no impact whatsoever.
> 
> The distance between abdomen and rock before the fall is 6", much more than the 2" suggested in your example. She has made this fall _at least_ seven times that I have witnessed and has never been any worse off than a little startled.


This is one case. In science, in my language, when we are talking only about one case, we call it 'kazuistika' (I'm not sure about the correct term in English - maybe casuistic- DrAce, if you read this, please help me ) In science, casuistcs are very useful, but you simply cannot draw general conclusions only on the basis of casuistics. You need a large number of randomly selected cases and then statistically analyse the available data.



ph0bia said:


> She's not overweight, but I'd really not imagine being overweight would matter at the 2-3" we're talking about in your example. If she were dangerously overweight, she'd not get as high as she does; and besides, if your tarantula -is- that overweight, who's fault is it for dangerously overfeeding it?


Yes, overfeeding the T is not wright (in my opinion) and I'm not doing this. But if somebody IS doing this, that's his fault, not the T's. So for me, every T's health is equally important...



ph0bia said:


> I could go into physics calculations here,


Sometimes, physics calculations can be extremely important. But IME, in natural sciences, quite often they simply don't work. A living creature is just WAY to complicated....


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## MizM (Feb 16, 2009)

ph0bia said:


> A new level of the pet-rock?


Yes, very much so. It has to be the same rock too, can't put in a different one. It's definitely rock love.


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## ph0bia (Feb 16, 2009)

My B.auratum has the same kind of behavior with a lump of cork-bark.

So here we have an actual case of rocks in the enclosure being beneficial. Seems, like some lizards, some Ts enjoy basking and have a favourite basking platform. :3

*EDIT:* Well, we know B.auratum, B.smithi and more like to bask, just not that some show some favouritism in preference of rock.


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## MizM (Feb 16, 2009)

My Ts don't have lights, so no, not a basking spot. Just doesn't like substrate.


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## ph0bia (Feb 16, 2009)

Well, I don't necessarily mean basking under light (though that is what the B.smithi and auratum enjoy), more a place to sit and chillax. =P


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## MizM (Feb 16, 2009)

Yup, and keep that nasty substrate of her 8 widdle toesies!! God forbid I should get it wet... can NOT get water on the toes either!! She's TOO precious, I guess!


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## ph0bia (Feb 16, 2009)

That's why I've not bothered misting my rosie for ages, she hates moitsure. It's just a water bowl kept topped up now. 

I guess they get it all from their prey?


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## MizM (Feb 16, 2009)

No, they need water. Misting bad, water dish good.


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## ph0bia (Feb 16, 2009)

Yeah, I always have a waterdish for my Ts, no matter what ^_^


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## LuvRottweilers (Feb 6, 2010)

Where do you buy those clear latches?


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## LisaD (Feb 7, 2010)

don't mean to derail, but I never knew about the exo terra breeding boxes, those are awesome!

I also like the enclosure the OP made.  many useful suggestions too.  I have quite a few KKs I hate, may try a version of this for some of my terrestrial Ts.


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## scottyk (Feb 7, 2010)

LuvRottweilers said:


> Where do you buy those clear latches?


http://www.tapplastics.com/shop/category.php?bid=12


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## Sadistic Haplo (Feb 7, 2010)

if you cant come across acrylic hinges, velcro works wonders. I use velcro on all of my enclosures, from my new world aboreals to my oldworld terrestrials.


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