# Brown recluse + pregnant girl = ????



## Wolvie56X (Nov 10, 2004)

my friend got bit in her boob by a brown recluse and shes 2 months pregnant, just wondering what kinda affects it can have on the baby, i think on venom ER a pregnant woman was bitten by a black widow before and they said the venom can cause deformitys and mental retardation in the baby

just wondering what kinda stuff can happen with a brown recluse, she almost lost the baby, so the venom musta been in the blood stream enough to do something, also she had the 'bad area' where it bit removed, poor girl


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## Washout (Nov 10, 2004)

First how do you know it was a brown recluse? Did she show any symptoms of a brown recluse bite?

After reading this: http://www.umm.edu/childsafety/outdoor_safety/ency/brown recluse/brownrecluse.htm

It looks like the bite only causes localized tissue damage. It's not anything like black widow venom at all. Basically you just put ice on it and some neosporin to eliminate the chance of a bacterial infection. Theres not any "antivenom".

Without having the body of the spider in hand You can't know that it was a recluse. Does she live in Missouri, Kansas, Tennessee, or Arkansas? If not chances are very low that she was actually bitten by a recluse.

Edit: Also I'm not very clear on your post. Did your friend almost loose the baby, or the person on the ER show?

Edit2: After reading this: http://spiders.ucr.edu/dermatol.html there may not even be any venomous spiders in CT..


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## Wolvie56X (Nov 11, 2004)

they both almost lost the baby, they think it was a brown recluse, but then again im getting information from her, but from what the drs were saying, it was a brown recluse, they have to remove part of her breast where the bite was localized

now im not sure if brown recluse are in this area, but i was almost positive i saw one this summer, i even made a post about it

she got bit 4 weeks ago and she was only in Mass and CT

the dr tested the dead tissue and it came out as a brown recluse, but just out of curiosity, is there anything else in the region that could have a bit kinda like a brown recluse?  she didnt even know when or where she was bitten, but a day or so later she felt stinging and a burning sensation inher breast

the dr told her that because it was mostly absorbed in the breasts fatty tissue, it was very unlikely it would have any major effect on the fetus

she had the damaged tissue removed and so far its healing pretty well, looked on both those sites, couldnt find any info on the venom possibly hurting an unborn child

shes worried about birth defects and possibly nuerological damages


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## Wolvie56X (Nov 11, 2004)

the baby had an irregular heart beat, like it was reacting to somethign, maybe a fluctuation in her immune system, but shes going back on the 20th and they are running tests on the baby, sorry, forgot to add that


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## Lucretia (Nov 11, 2004)

I find it quite sad that a person in the medical profession would make such a drastic conclusion considering there are NO brown recluses in Connecticut or Massachusetts.

Let's look at the evidence here.  She didn't see the spider, she didn't notice herself getting bitten...so how and why would a spider end up on her breast without her noticing..and just decide to give it a bite?

Innocent until proven guilty...even the little 8 legged creature.

I would get a second doctor's opinion.
I may not be in the medical profession...but a test that determines the EXACT SPECIES (one that doesn't even live in the state..) of venom seems slightly suspicious...


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## Malhavoc's (Nov 11, 2004)

Infact, I think its rather hard to determine convict from the bite as some spiders have the same sysmtoms and can cause alot of secondary infections that do the msot damamage, so without the body iding the spider is impossible to my knowledge jsut a vague impression, but due to alot of miss diagnosed bites the wrong spiders get blamed anyway, Another thing is, thousands in california go to the doctor for tissue dammage swearing its a brown reclusea but there are no browns in california but they are still blamed?


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## Washout (Nov 11, 2004)

I would think she got bit by a bug of some kind and got a secondary infection from it. I can't find any information that there are any venomous spiders in CT. That does not mean there are not any but it's very unlikely this was caused by a spider bite.


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## Wolvie56X (Nov 11, 2004)

i agree with you all actually, i just cant figure out what coulda had a bite like that

then you said secondary infection, that got me thinking, if shes allergic to bees and gets bitten by a regular house spider, instead of having an allergic reaction, she coulda had some kinda infection... right?

and also how the hell can a dr test 'dead tissue'  i was reading alot last night and didnt reply cause i was exhausted, but im gonna urge her to get a second opinion and bring that dr a bug book

but back to the most important part, would a bad infection like that have any adverse effects on a fetus?  thats my only main concern really and the drs are really, umm, whats the word, STUPID!!!!

thank you for all your help guys


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## kosh (Nov 12, 2004)

i read an article somewhere a while back about a smaller light colored spider that has necrotic venom like the recluse and is really the cause for most bites that are blamed on the recluse and it has a broader geographical range than the recluse...

anyone know the spider im talking about?


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## Sequin (Nov 12, 2004)

Hobo spider? they have a neurotic venom...and some live in canada i do believe


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## Washout (Nov 12, 2004)

~AnimalQueen~ said:
			
		

> Hobo spider? they have a neurotic venom...and some live in canada i do believe


 Hobo spiders are west coast afaik.


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## Washout (Nov 12, 2004)

Wolvie56X said:
			
		

> then you said secondary infection, that got me thinking, if shes allergic to bees and gets bitten by a regular house spider, instead of having an allergic reaction, she coulda had some kinda infection... right?


Well necrosis can happen because of many things, it can even happen spontainously. I learned that the hard way.. So it's possible it was not even caused by a bite of any type. And I would also be interested to find out how the doctor was able to test the tissue and determine that it was recluse venom.

At any rate there is a pretty low chance that any kind of neurological venom made it to the baby. Especially since the venom types that cause necrosis are not neurological.


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## Bearskin10 (Nov 12, 2004)

kosh said:
			
		

> i read an article somewhere a while back about a smaller light colored spider that has necrotic venom like the recluse and is really the cause for most bites that are blamed on the recluse and it has a broader geographical range than the recluse...
> 
> anyone know the spider im talking about?


I believe the one you are thinking of is this one http://hobospider.org/ and then check out the yellow sac spider.  Greg


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## Elizabeth (Nov 15, 2004)

When a woman is pregnant, her immune system is suppressed to some degree.  It  didn't have to be a special spider bite for her to have a worse than usual reaction.   Doubt very much that she needs to worry about the fetus at all.  I wouldn't waste time educating that doctor either, but I do hope she won't go back to him for anything. IMO, he's more of a danger than the spider!


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## WithCerberus (Nov 15, 2004)

Brown recluses are very cosmopolitan and can easily be transported with moving boxes. Brown recluses are more widespread than people think. I am in Illinois myself and have several brown recluses in my collection now that were caught in my apartment and storage unit. Check out this: http://creatures.ifas.ufl.edu/urban...luse_spider.htm Here is a highlight from this link : 

"An updated revision of the genus by Gertsch and Ennik (1983) reported a few records from Arizona, California, Colorado, Florida, Maine, Minnesota, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, Wyoming and Tamaulipas (Mexico) [the reported Ontario (Canada) record in this publication subsequently proved to be a specimen of Loxosceles rufescens (Dufour); R. Vetter, personal communication, 2001]. Most of these peripheral records were interceptions of one or two specimens, not evidence of established populations."

Malhavok, california also has the pleasure of having established populations of L. laeta. Which I wouldnt mind having in my collection 8).

Bobby


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