# Male Phidippus Regius- is he an adult?



## Noah Clark (Sep 14, 2017)

I don't have pics atm because I'm not home but I was thinking. I've seen adult male regal jumpers before and almost all of then have white on the backs of their heads and very bright and fluffy tufts of white hair on their front legs. Mine does, but it's not very brightly coloured. He has no white on the back of his head.
He has eaten to the point where his abdomen is about a millimetre wider than his head in diameter.
Can a male jumping spider have swollen pedipalps if he still has one more moult to go?
I've never seen a fat male jumper so yeah
I can provide pics later if necessary but I think I described him pretty well. He basically looks like a female phidippus audax with way less hair and a much larger head and chelicerae.


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## Little Grey Spider (Sep 16, 2017)

Yes, you may notice bulbous palps in a subadult male. Pictures would be immensely helpful here.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Noah Clark (Sep 16, 2017)

Little Grey Spider said:


> Yes, you may notice bulbous palps in a subadult male. Pictures would be immensely helpful here.


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## Noah Clark (Sep 16, 2017)

Little Grey Spider said:


> Yes, you may notice bulbous palps in a subadult male. Pictures would be immensely helpful here.


  also, he is kinda sluggish. As if he's digesting his food specifically for a moult. And I know Tupperware isn't best for them, but it's what I had and I am getting critter keepers today. In my ken the bug guy order I did request that the spiders be in either the penultimate instar or very young adults.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ungoliant (Sep 17, 2017)

Noah Clark said:


> 252249


The one on your arm looks like a penultimate male. (The palps look swollen but undeveloped.)

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## basin79 (Sep 17, 2017)

Ungoliant said:


> The one on your arm looks like a penultimate male. (The palps look swollen but undeveloped.)


Agreed. 1 more moult until he's a MM by the look of him.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Little Grey Spider (Sep 17, 2017)

Yes, he's a sub-adult male.
Thank you for the images.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Noah Clark (Sep 24, 2017)

Little Grey Spider said:


> Yes, he's a sub adult male.
> Thank you for the images.


Sorry for the late reply, but you're welcome! Thanks for your help! But I do have a question. What do the resting sacs of P regius typically look like? Every p audax sac I've seen was dense and almost white. My male regius has made a sac in which he's been in for a few days now, it's very rough and lazy looking. Is he going to moult or is this a standard resting sac?


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## basin79 (Sep 24, 2017)

Noah Clark said:


> Sorry for the late reply, but you're welcome! Thanks for your help! But I do have a question. What do the resting sacs of P regius typically look like? Every p audax sac I've seen was dense and almost white. My male regius has made a sac in which he's been in for a few days now, it's very rough and lazy looking. Is he going to moult or is this a standard resting sac?


He'll keep adding to it.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ratmosphere (Sep 24, 2017)

Noah Clark said:


> Sorry for the late reply, but you're welcome! Thanks for your help! But I do have a question. What do the resting sacs of P regius typically look like? Every p audax sac I've seen was dense and almost white. My male regius has made a sac in which he's been in for a few days now, it's very rough and lazy looking. Is he going to moult or is this a standard resting sac?

Reactions: Like 2


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## Noah Clark (Sep 24, 2017)

Ratmosphere said:


> View attachment 253002


Yup! That's exactly what his looks like, thank you for the pic!


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## Ratmosphere (Sep 24, 2017)

No problem! They will add more over time though.

Reactions: Like 1


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## basin79 (Sep 24, 2017)

Noah Clark said:


> Yup! That's exactly what his looks like, thank you for the pic!


He'll add more silk over time. I give my jumpers sling pots to make a hammock in. Stops them webbing up the top/lid.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Noah Clark (Sep 24, 2017)

Ratmosphere said:


> No problem! They will add more over time though.


Anything special you'd recommend to care for him while he is in his sac? Or should I just leave him alone and continue misting daily. Should I turn his enclosure lights off?


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## Ratmosphere (Sep 24, 2017)

I don't use lights with my enclosures. Also, nope! Just keep misting the enclosure daily and the spider will be fine.

Reactions: Clarification Please 1


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## basin79 (Sep 24, 2017)

Noah Clark said:


> Anything special you'd recommend to care for him while he is in his sac? Or should I just leave him alone and continue misting daily. Should I turn his enclosure lights off?


Just leave him alone. Don't spray the web. A little spray on a surface for him to have a drink if he wants one.


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## Noah Clark (Sep 25, 2017)

Just an update, he's made his nest a lot thicker and a bit wider. Doesn't look like a loosely assembled mess anymore. Can't wait for him to emerge! At this point, when can I expect him to moult?


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## Noah Clark (Sep 25, 2017)

Noah Clark said:


> Just an update, he's made his nest a lot thicker and a bit wider. Doesn't look like a loosely assembled mess anymore. Can't wait for him to emerge! At this point, when can I expect him to moult?


Adding to that, last time he ate before becoming a couch potato was Friday, 15 september.


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## basin79 (Sep 25, 2017)

Noah Clark said:


> Adding to that, last time he ate before becoming a couch potato was Friday, 15 september.


Any day.


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## Noah Clark (Sep 28, 2017)

Ok everybody
My boi has exited his sac, he is on top of it now. He hasn't moulted. But he seems to be chewing on/biting the sac
Wtf he do


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## Noah Clark (Sep 28, 2017)

Noah Clark said:


> Ok everybody
> My boi has exited his sac, he is on top of it now. He hasn't moulted. But he seems to be chewing on/biting the sac
> Wtf he do


He chewed a decent size hole in it and climbed back inside
What has he done
Does this have anything to do with moulting


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## basin79 (Sep 28, 2017)

Noah Clark said:


> He chewed a decent size hole in it and climbed back inside
> What has he done
> Does this have anything to do with moulting


Maybe he's just doing what it looks like. Making the entrance bigger.


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## Noah Clark (Sep 28, 2017)

basin79 said:


> Maybe he's just doing what it looks like. Making the entrance bigger.


Yes 
But why


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## Noah Clark (Sep 28, 2017)

basin79 said:


> Maybe he's just doing what it looks like. Making the entrance bigger.


And he is once again sitting on top of the sac. Made hole to get in, sitting on sac because he wishes to moult outside of it, and since he is much larger he will use the big hole to get in so he can allow his new exoskeleton to harden?


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## basin79 (Sep 28, 2017)

Noah Clark said:


> And he is once again sitting on top of the sac. Made hole to get in, sitting on sac because he wishes to moult outside of it, and since he is much larger he will use the big hole to get in so he can allow his new exoskeleton to harden?


He'll not moult outside of his hammock. If he's still out tomorrow see if he'll take a fly.


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## Noah Clark (Sep 28, 2017)

Noah Clark said:


> And he is once again sitting on top of the sac. Made hole to get in, sitting on sac because he wishes to moult outside of it, and since he is much larger he will use the big hole to get in so he can allow his new exoskeleton to harden?


Ok, he's back inside now, and it seems the hole got bigger. Hopefully this means he is about to moult and will use the hole either as some sort of support or to get out of the sac when he finishes


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## Noah Clark (Sep 28, 2017)

basin79 said:


> He'll not moult outside of his hammock. If he's still out tomorrow see if he'll take a fly.


Read above, replied to wrong post

Reactions: Like 1


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## Noah Clark (Sep 28, 2017)

basin79 said:


> He'll not moult outside of his hammock. If he's still out tomorrow see if he'll take a fly.


This spider is one strange boi
This is the most I've seen him move for over a week
He is just moving around in his sac
Pulling himself out through the hole and then back in
What is the meaning of this


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## basin79 (Sep 28, 2017)

Noah Clark said:


> This spider is one strange boi
> This is the most I've seen him move for over a week
> He is just moving around in his sac
> Pulling himself out through the hole and then back in
> What is the meaning of this


I'm unsure to be honest. You'll just have to keep an eye on him.


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## Noah Clark (Sep 29, 2017)

basin79 said:


> I'm unsure to be honest. You'll just have to keep an eye on him.


I am so confused by this spider
I got home and he was on the bottom of his enclosure roaming around, his sac practically destroyed
No signs of moult anywhere, in fact he looks no different.
I tried feeding him a small fly and a large fly. With both he delivered a quick venomless bite and walked away. They are both still alive.
Wtf is he doing? I'm starting to worry


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## basin79 (Sep 29, 2017)

Noah Clark said:


> I am so confused by this spider
> I got home and he was on the bottom of his enclosure roaming around, his sac practically destroyed
> No signs of moult anywhere, in fact he looks no different.
> I tried feeding him a small fly and a large fly. With both he delivered a quick venomless bite and walked away. They are both still alive.
> Wtf is he doing? I'm starting to worry


I'm honestly unsure.


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## Noah Clark (Sep 29, 2017)

basin79 said:


> I'm honestly unsure.


Here he is

Reactions: Like 1


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## The Snark (Sep 29, 2017)

Noah Clark said:


> I am so confused by this spider
> I got home and he was on the bottom of his enclosure roaming around, his sac practically destroyed
> No signs of moult anywhere, in fact he looks no different.
> I tried feeding him a small fly and a large fly. With both he delivered a quick venomless bite and walked away. They are both still alive.
> Wtf is he doing? I'm starting to worry


I've occasionally observed this in the jumper population that roams our porch. It's easier to spot the difference when there are several around to compare it to. I've always assumed it's the males doing the male thing, out to find romance. How they act coincides with sparring matches often taking place among the males. A noticeable change from they all are roaming-hunting and ignoring (or ambushing) each other to pairs facing off.

On a comic note, they notify me of the change, the mating season has begun. When I go out on the porch I often walk into several abandoned safety lines draped from the eaves that the sparring males have left behind.


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## Noah Clark (Sep 29, 2017)

The Snark said:


> I've occasionally observed this in the jumper population that roams our porch. It's easier to spot the difference when there are several around to compare it to. I've always assumed it's the males doing the male thing, out to find romance. How they act coincides with sparring matches often taking place among the males. A noticeable change from they all are roaming-hunting and ignoring (or ambushing) each other to pairs facing off.


Do immature jumpers do that? He's not an adult.


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## The Snark (Sep 29, 2017)

Noah Clark said:


> Do immature jumpers do that? He's not an adult.


Purely unscientific here, I'd say yes. They aren't robots. There is no switch flipped that completely changes their behavior. Immatures could very well be 'feeling their oats' even though they aren't fully equipped.

Call this an idiot analogy. Take a ~<yearling colt. Ready and willing to mount a mare... and completely incapable of performing once he gets up there.


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## Torech Ungol (Sep 30, 2017)

I agree. His behavior very much sounds like he is trying and failing to build a sperm web.


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## Noah Clark (Oct 2, 2017)

basin79 said:


> I'm honestly unsure.


He has been sitting on the bottom all day and just wanders around. I give him food items, and what he does it stalk them, pounce on them, and then deliver a bite. Then lets go and walks away? This is hunting behaviour, but nothing he bites dies and he won't actually eat anything


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## Noah Clark (Oct 2, 2017)

basin79 said:


> I'm honestly unsure.


Ok he kept going at it, and he eventually held on and is now eating his mealworm. Perhaps since his fangs are so big he wasn't accurately hitting a part on the worm that would be good to inject his venom into? He attacked it 4 times, and every time it moved he went after it again. I'm glad to see him eating, I'm guessing after this meal he'll be ready to moult as his abdomen still hasn't gotten any smaller since he ate on September 14th.

Reactions: Like 1


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## basin79 (Oct 2, 2017)

Noah Clark said:


> He has been sitting on the bottom all day and just wanders around. I give him food items, and what he does it stalk them, pounce on them, and then deliver a bite. Then lets go and walks away? This is hunting behaviour, but nothing he bites dies and he won't actually eat anything


All my jumpers have either been hungry and ate or not and have either ignored the prey item or been hidden away. 

Have you tried him on flies?


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## basin79 (Oct 2, 2017)

Noah Clark said:


> Ok he kept going at it, and he eventually held on and is now eating his mealworm. Perhaps since his fangs are so big he wasn't accurately hitting a part on the worm that would be good to inject his venom into? He attacked it 4 times, and every time it moved he went after it again. I'm glad to see him eating, I'm guessing after this meal he'll be ready to moult as his abdomen still hasn't gotten any smaller since he ate on September 14th.


Fantastic. I didn't see this post as I had your other post opened and had to let Typhon out.

Really, really chuffed for the 2 of you.


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## Noah Clark (Oct 2, 2017)

basin79 said:


> Fantastic. I didn't see this post as I had your other post opened and had to let Typhon out.
> 
> Really, really chuffed for the 2 of you.


Thanks, my friend! 
His fangs are kinda awkward I guess, I'd honestly have trouble landing those long unruly things accurately if I were a spider.


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## basin79 (Oct 2, 2017)

Noah Clark said:


> Thanks, my friend!
> His fangs are kinda awkward I guess, I'd honestly have trouble landing those long unruly things accurately if I were a spider.


They do sport a fine set. 

I'd honestly give him freshly hatched blue bottles. They're harmless, soft and really move so the spider gets to flex their grey matter to capture them.


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## Noah Clark (Oct 2, 2017)

basin79 said:


> They do sport a fine set.
> 
> I'd honestly give him freshly hatched blue bottles. They're harmless, soft and really move so the spider gets to flex their grey matter to capture them.


There was a cricket in my room (weird, right?) so I gave it to him. He's eating it, what a good boy!
He did the same thing where he had a bunch of failed bites, I think it's definitely an accuracy thing. I think he realised that, as he kind of grabbed the thing with his arms and pulled it towards him, where he bit it right on its back.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Noah Clark (Oct 4, 2017)

basin79 said:


> They do sport a fine set.
> 
> I'd honestly give him freshly hatched blue bottles. They're harmless, soft and really move so the spider gets to flex their grey matter to capture them.


 hmm I would urgently request your assistance
He is now standing up as tall as he can and straining, he is doing it repeatedly. Moulting behaviour?


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## basin79 (Oct 6, 2017)

Noah Clark said:


> hmm I would urgently request your assistance
> He is now standing up as tall as he can and straining, he is doing it repeatedly. Moulting behaviour?


Unsure. I know some T's stretch after a moult though.


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## Noah Clark (Oct 11, 2017)

basin79 said:


> Unsure. I know some T's stretch after a moult though.


I've come to the conclusion that either he must be an adult (which wouldn't make sense because I don't think adult males would eat to the point where they are very fat?), or he just moulted before he was shipped. I know at least with Phidippus audax (very similar, smaller, northeastern version in the US) in the penultimate instar it can be a few months before the final moult (Based on a very detailed Phidippus audax life cycle pdf I found). He's eaten again, and until he starts ignoring food and making a nest, I'll continue feeding him.


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## basin79 (Oct 11, 2017)

Time will tell then.


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## Noah Clark (Oct 13, 2017)

basin79 said:


> Time will tell then.


I think he might be up to something.
His fangs are wide open, he isn't grooming himself or anything like that either. I know they moult starting at the front of their heads, could this be what he's doing?


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## basin79 (Oct 14, 2017)

Noah Clark said:


> I think he might be up to something.
> His fangs are wide open, he isn't grooming himself or anything like that either. I know they moult starting at the front of their heads, could this be what he's doing?


I'm honestly clueless. I think he's a lot more intelligent than a regular jumper and is winding you up.


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## Torech Ungol (Oct 14, 2017)

Bahaha I must say, I love the idea of a salticid acting contrary just to mess with someone!


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## Noah Clark (Oct 17, 2017)

basin79 said:


> I'm honestly clueless. I think he's a lot more intelligent than a regular jumper and is winding you up.


All he seems to want to do is climb to the top of his enclosure now. He's very fat. But there is a problem. He and the female both live in separate enclosures, but they are the same. the female can climb to the top relatively easily. For him, however, it's a struggle. He can't seem to grip, and hhe even seems to have trouble gripping my skin sometimes. Why is this?


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## basin79 (Oct 17, 2017)

Noah Clark said:


> All he seems to want to do is climb to the top of his enclosure now. He's very fat. But there is a problem. He and the female both live in separate enclosures, but they are the same. the female can climb to the top relatively easily. For him, however, it's a struggle. He can't seem to grip, and hhe even seems to have trouble gripping my skin sometimes. Why is this?


The only thing I can think of that would cause that is old age. But that doesn't really make sense. 

I'm ruddy well at a loss with your little man. He's a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma.


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## Noah Clark (Oct 17, 2017)

basin79 said:


> The only thing I can think of that would cause that is old age. But that doesn't really make sense.
> 
> I'm ruddy well at a loss with your little man. He's a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma.


He certainly is a special boy! I helped him to the top, I put my finger in and he climbed onto it, then I lifted him up to the top. He's now hanging out at up there. I'll let you know if he does anything! Perhaps he can't grip because he's so fat. Who knows, lol.


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## Noah Clark (Oct 24, 2017)

basin79 said:


> The only thing I can think of that would cause that is old age. But that doesn't really make sense.
> 
> I'm ruddy well at a loss with your little man. He's a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma.


Last time I thought he was going to moult, he ended up losing some weight and ate again. This time its been almost 2 weeks and he's lost none at all. He's still really fat. He drinks a LOT of water. When I give him some, he will drink a whole drop (bigger than his head) and ththen drink more. He gets ever so slightly larger every time. He has made a silk sheet and he is just sitting on it now. I'm hoping it'll be any time now, but i am playing with the possibility that he's already an adult, but that would not make any sense at all because adult male jumpers never get fat. and his head is smaller than the female's now, and the female is now bigger than him by a decent amount. Thing is, I don't even know if she's an adult yet either.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Noah Clark (Nov 2, 2017)

basin79 said:


> The only thing I can think of that would cause that is old age. But that doesn't really make sense.
> 
> I'm ruddy well at a loss with your little man. He's a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma.


Here's my boy. He's still been doing nothing but trying to get to the top. I think he wants to get up there before moulting. I'm not alarmed by how long it's taken him to moult as his sister species Phidippus audax can spend over 70 days in subadult. But he can't climb. where should I put him where he can make a sac and finally emerge an adult? 
	

		
			
		

		
	



	

		
			
		

		
	
SSee how fat he is? His abdomen dwarfs his head! Definitely not an adult. He's also still very alert and agile. He just sucks at climbing smooth surfaces like a plastic enclosure. He just climbed up a vertical wire with no issue whatsoever.


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## basin79 (Nov 2, 2017)

Noah Clark said:


> Here's my boy. He's still been doing nothing but trying to get to the top. I think he wants to get up there before moulting. I'm not alarmed by how long it's taken him to moult as his sister species Phidippus audax can spend over 70 days in subadult. But he can't climb. where should I put him where he can make a sac and finally emerge an adult?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm unsure why he can't climb. My adult male could climb around with no problems until right near the end of his life.


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## Noah Clark (Nov 2, 2017)

basin79 said:


> I'm unsure why he can't climb. My adult male could climb around with no problems until right near the end of his life.


Honestly, it is very smooth plastic. I've taken up the idea of allowing him to freely roam my room. I'm watching him, of course. He's climbing up the wall with no issue. I'm going to watch him explore for a bit and see if he finds a place to settle down and make a nest.


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## basin79 (Nov 2, 2017)

Noah Clark said:


> Honestly, it is very smooth plastic. I've taken up the idea of allowing him to freely roam my room. I'm watching him, of course. He's climbing up the wall with no issue. I'm going to watch him explore for a bit and see if he finds a place to settle down and make a nest.


The tub I kept my male in was. I'd just offer him cork bark slabs with plastic plants spruces pushed into them. It'll give him something tactile to climb and the plants will give him somewhere to spin a hammock.


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## Noah Clark (Nov 2, 2017)

i haven't thought of using plants....lol
Perhaps some jumpers are different than others
Some humans are naturally born more capable of running, while some aren't and suck at running and have to work way harder to reach the same ability. These little dudes have been around far, far longer than we have, almost all the surfaces in their natural environments with no human influence whatsoever have decently rough textures, textures on which these spiders have absolutely no problem using their full agility on. Perhaps some are just born with stickier feet.


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## Noah Clark (Nov 20, 2017)

basin79 said:


> The tub I kept my male in was. I'd just offer him cork bark slabs with plastic plants spruces pushed into them. It'll give him something tactile to climb and the plants will give him somewhere to spin a hammock.


Ive been Giving him water and offering food on occasion (he didn't eat it) and even though he had plenty of area to make a hammock, he never did. He sat like a black lump. Well... He died today, really not sure as to what exactly happened with him but i thought I'd let you know. I feel like he was suffering and maybe experiencing old age before he could even be a true adult. The female is still very healthy and I'm not entirely sure whether she's even an adult yet. Very quirky and active little girl. I'll send pics later tonight, I'm curious to see your opinion as to whether she's an adult yet. Though I'm saddened by what happened to my boy I'm happy for the time i got to spend with the rather interesting fellow. In mid spring I'll be ordering another male and mating them.


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