# surival of the meanest



## StOrM^ (Mar 13, 2005)

today went for some T hunting.. we caught about 15 pix. a mixture of C.validas and P.inemis. upon arrival of our hunting ground. i caught my self a garter snake.. its looks weak. upon picking it up. i saw that it was very badly beaten up either by people or cats. so i brought it back n wedge a war with my H.schimiti. our hunting ground have interesting factors .. on the same rock we move over we can find 2 diff Ts juz side by side. about 15cm apart in their own web. they are super fast n hungry. i brought some back n 10 mins into their new home they start killing crix . hows that :clap:  anyway here is some pix. 

Ps. some may say that i am mean to bring the snake back. but trust me that it was on the brink of death already.


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## StOrM^ (Mar 13, 2005)

the attack??


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## common spider (Mar 13, 2005)

So who won????????????????


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## Dark (Mar 13, 2005)

Nice!! It looks like a good meal for the Tarantula but i never feed my T's stuff i find could have pesticides!  



                                                                 Eric


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## kyle_de_aussie (Mar 13, 2005)

is the snake very venomous?
if so u musnt care much for the t's life


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## Jetzie (Mar 13, 2005)

tt's just a garter snake, no venom. something like a drain snake lol


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## Arachnoking (Mar 13, 2005)

Im sorry but i realy dont like that and think its disgusting the fact that u fed the snake to your spider like that rather than letting nature take its course. Instead u decided to play god. I dont mean to start an argument here but im a big snake lover and realy dont agree with what u done. that snake had a chance of survival in the wild even if it was a very slight chance.

Just my moneys worth


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## Bean (Mar 13, 2005)

Arachnoking said:
			
		

> Im sorry but i realy dont like that and think its disgusting the fact that u fed the snake to your spider like that rather than letting nature take its course. Instead u decided to play god. I dont mean to start an argument here but im a big snake lover and realy dont agree with what u done. that snake had a chance of survival in the wild even if it was a very slight chance.
> 
> Just my moneys worth



So, could a cricket lover (do they exist?) make the same argument?  What about a roach fanatic?  Why is StorM^ playing god anymore than you are based on his choice of feeder?  Make statements like these, and you can be sure logic will demand an argument.  (good natured, of course   )


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## Arachnoking (Mar 13, 2005)

The crickets i feed to my spiders were not plucked out of the wild to be fed to my spider. they are bred comercialy for that use. all im saying is that the snake had much more chance of survival in the wild than it did in a small plastic tank with the spider. Ok it may have died if left in the wild but then that is nature and it had as much chance of survival as it did of dying.I have the right to say that i dont agree with it and find it unethical.

As i stated. im not trying to cause arguments. just stating my view.


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## common spider (Mar 13, 2005)

Please people.Food is food we do the same thing.I go hunting and I kill and I eat what I kill.I go to pet stores and buy lizards and feed them to my T's what is the problem.


By the way I am not trying to start trouble...............


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## Randolph XX() (Mar 13, 2005)

hey dude ur enclosure looks kinda too dry for H.schmidti, does it dig yet?


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## edesign (Mar 13, 2005)

common spider said:
			
		

> Please people.Food is food we do the same thing.I go hunting and I kill and I eat what I kill.I go to pet stores and buy lizards and feed them to my T's what is the problem.
> 
> 
> By the way I am not trying to start trouble...............


agreed...snake or cricket, doesn't matter. as for survival of the meanest...i don't quite follow as the snake was already weakened, disposition had little to do with anything at that point...maybe survival of the fittest?

I'd have been more worried about any damage the snake could have inflicted to the T...in the second pic it looks like it still had enough strength to rear up, and inferring from that i'd say it still had enough strength to bite.


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## StOrM^ (Mar 13, 2005)

i was expecting some thing like that to be reply. like i mention. it will not surive the night. so instead of letting it to be wasted, i brought it back. 

as for the H.S tank. i have 2 kind of soil in it. the black soil below is eco soil that will hold water for a long time. while the upper layer is mix soil. consist of coco peat. dry mosse, burn soil others. great for the t to lay thei burrow web. as for my H.S she seems funny. at 1st she did burrow abit. but later found that she did not like it. now she spend most of her time on the surface. but she is doing fine. and feed alot.


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## Randolph XX() (Mar 13, 2005)

plz see this http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1052 
sorry just can't stand for ppl keep Haplos with shallow substrate


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## death1 (Mar 13, 2005)

*I'm...*

I'm an animal person(I get along with animals better than people). Its hard to watch nature take its course. I'm pulled both ways. If it was injured there wasn't much of a chance for it to live. Being hurt in the wild is like us being disabled from the neck down. I can understand it, its just to hard to think about.


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## David Burns (Mar 13, 2005)

I'm a plant person. I don't think people should eat any sort of vegetation.

It can go both ways. I'm not trying to come down on anyones point of view. But, tolerance and free will, give peace a chance and circle of life. A great man once sang  " if you want to make a change, Change the man in the mirror" I wonder what he's doing right now.


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## death1 (Mar 13, 2005)

isn't he on trial now?


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## Randolph XX() (Mar 13, 2005)

philosiphy 1100,
free will contains certain amount of evils, but we need free will in the world, if God is all PKG(all powerul, all knowing, all good), he won't let any evil exsist, hence there is no God
-Elliot Sober


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## surena (Mar 13, 2005)

Arachnoking said:
			
		

> The crickets i feed to my spiders were not plucked out of the wild to be fed to my spider. they are bred comercialy for that use. all im saying is that the snake had much more chance of survival in the wild than it did in a small plastic tank with the spider. Ok it may have died if left in the wild but then that is nature and it had as much chance of survival as it did of dying.I have the right to say that i dont agree with it and find it unethical.
> 
> As i stated. im not trying to cause arguments. just stating my view.


Tarantulas do feed on snakes in the wild, so the chance of survival of that snake in the wild would be as good  a cricket ! Have you not seen the movie "Predators of the wild" ? you should have seen what the T.blondi did to the rattle snake (I think it was a rattle snke) !!


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## Crunchie (Mar 13, 2005)

Must say I feel quite strongly on feeding live vertebrates to t's but I'll leave that out. 
As someone has already pointed out the snake looks like it has enough strength to rear up and therefore strike. I keep garters myself and they are lightning quick, I certainly wouldn't risk a prized tarantula being hurt by the snake. I've been bitten by a garter before of similar size to the one in the photo (though the photo looks more like a ribbon snake than a garter) and it was a bugger to convince it to let me go, my finger gushed blood for a good while where the teeth had pireced the skin. Also there's obviously the risk of pesticides and parasites... silly risk in my opinion.

You mention that the snake seemed weak... though there is no way you can know what caused that, garter and ribbon snakes are very skittish and so I expect there was some underlying problem with it. It could have had an infection or parasites for all you know which will then possibly be transferred to your tarantula.


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## Randolph XX() (Mar 13, 2005)

it's Fer De Lance snake, did i spell it wrong?


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## Beardo (Mar 13, 2005)

Like someone else mentioned, I don't think that is a Garter Snake....looks more like an Eastern Ribbon Snake to me. 



> tt's just a garter snake, no venom. something like a drain snake lol


Actually, Garter Snakes do have Duvernoy's Glands (venom glands) but no ducts that go to any of their teeth....they also have a slightly toxic saliva that can cause adverse reactions in some people (I've been bit by Garters before and it swelled up and itched like crazy). 

Also....just curious, but what is a 'drain snake'? Never heard that one before.


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## common spider (Mar 13, 2005)

Its like the old saying.........................




THERE ARE 2 SIDES TO EVERY STREET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## FryLock (Mar 13, 2005)

StOrM^ said:
			
		

> today went for some T hunting.. we caught about 15 pix. a mixture of C.validas and P.inemis. upon arrival of our hunting ground. i caught my self a garter snake.. its looks weak. upon picking it up. i saw that it was very badly beaten up either by people or cats. so i brought it back n wedge a war with my H.schimiti.


With out taking any side im just interested were Garter's/Ribbion's are found wild in Singapore  seeing as there genus is new world.


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## Elizabeth (Mar 13, 2005)

Interesting question, which made me hunt (and hunt! and hunt!) on Google.  Perhaps for lack of a better translation, he resorted to a "garter snake", but doesn't this mud snake look like his catch? This "rainbow water snake" (Enhydris enhydris) is found in Singapore. Seeing as it is semi-aquatic, has the stripes, could this be it? The drainsnake?

http://www.fieldmuseum.org/aquaticsnakes/mud_snakes.html

I'm not completely sure, but the text seems to imply that this is a rear-fanged venomous snake, although harmless to humans.  I would say that is one lucky T!


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## death1 (Mar 13, 2005)

I think we're missing the big point... Is it right to feed lower/"acceptable" life, to another, if they're incapable of sustaining life on their own? :?


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## Elizabeth (Mar 13, 2005)

No, I'm not missing the point. That's a point of interest to you, not to me.  I'm just discussing what interests me.


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## vespa_bicolor (Mar 13, 2005)

Used to live in Singapore. And I believe that is a common or painted bronzeback or similar species, genus Dendrelaphis. A couple of links found below. 

http://www.ecologyasia.com/verts/snakes/painted_bronzeback.htm

http://www.wildsingapore.per.sg/discovery/factsheet/snakepainted.htm

It's probably not Enhydris because those snakes are greatly different in structure; the head looks kind of weird and it has a more stout shape.


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## death1 (Mar 13, 2005)

Elizabeth said:
			
		

> No, I'm not missing the point. That's a point of interest to you, not to me.  I'm just discussing what interests me.


I respect that. Point taken.


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## Elizabeth (Mar 13, 2005)

Thanks, D.  I read and respect other people's opinions, too.    

Vespa, I really can't tell the difference just from these pics, but I'll trust you, since you've been there.  They all look similar: his catch, the mudsnake and then the two links you posted.  Anyway, sounds like garter snake was used loosely.   That works.


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## jdcarrel (Mar 13, 2005)

didn't the snake bite the t once it attacked?   that looks a bit dangerous.


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## Beardo (Mar 14, 2005)

OK, I feel like a retard now lol.....I didn't even look and see where the peron's location was. If it is a native species to Singapore, its definitely not an Eastern Ribbon Snake LOL. Please excuse my laziness.


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## kyle_de_aussie (Mar 14, 2005)

Jetzie said:
			
		

> tt's just a garter snake, no venom. something like a drain snake lol


 If the snake has fangs it has some degree of venom 
so do these guys got injectors or just teeth like say a legless lizard has?


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## Jetzie (Mar 14, 2005)

no fangs at all.

hey ralphond20: your avatar's cool! is that a  Atrax or something? (not versed in them but a growing fan)


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## Lasiodora (Mar 14, 2005)

kyle_de_aussie said:
			
		

> If the snake has fangs it has some degree of venom
> so do these guys got injectors or just teeth like say a legless lizard has?


Not true. Corallus caninus has fangs and so does Morelia viridis and many other non-venomous snakes do too. Fangs are not a characteristic that make a snake venomous.
Mike


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## Beardo (Mar 14, 2005)

Lasiodora said:
			
		

> Not true. Corallus caninus has fangs and so does Morelia viridis and many other non-venomous snakes do too. Fangs are not a characteristic that make a snake venomous.
> Mike



lol....If you wanna get *really* technical, the term "fang" only applies to venomous snakes. While some species such as ETBs and Chondros do have enlarged teeth, they are not venomous, and therefore just have "big teeth."


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## Heartfang (Mar 14, 2005)

What was this long discussion about? :?


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## Lasiodora (Mar 14, 2005)

DavidBeard said:
			
		

> lol....If you wanna get *really* technical, the term "fang" only applies to venomous snakes. While some species such as ETBs and Chondros do have enlarged teeth, they are not venomous, and therefore just have "big teeth."


Don't mean to be a pain but:

Pronunciation: 'fa[ng]
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, that which is taken, from Old English; akin to Old High German fang seizure, Old English fOn to seize -- more at PACT
1 a : a long sharp tooth: as (1) : one by which an animal's prey is seized and held or torn (2) : one of the long hollow or grooved and often erectile teeth of a venomous snake b : one of the chelicerae of a spider at the tip of which a poison gland opens
2 : the root of a tooth or one of the processes or prongs into which a root divides
3 : a projecting tooth or prong

Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Take a look at #1 
So like I said, fangs are not the only thing that make a snake venomous or any animal for that matter. eg. Heloderma sp. do not have fangs and are venomous.

Sorry for the side track.
Have a nice day  ,
Mike


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## bagheera (Mar 14, 2005)

randolph20 said:
			
		

> philosiphy 1100,
> free will contains certain amount of evils, but we need free will in the world, if God is all PKG(all powerul, all knowing, all good), he won't let any evil exsist, hence there is no God
> -Elliot Sober


Of course, Thomas Aquinas used the presence of evil to prove the deity's existence. It all begs the question, however and becomes moot! ;P 

BTW Is that a trapdoor on your avatar?


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## bagheera (Mar 14, 2005)

Garter snakes *certainly* have fangs. Nice long backwards curving ones. I know quite well as I once spent a half an hour coaxing off my finger. He swallowed my middle finger, up to my hand!   Cut my finger to ribbons once he was extracted! :8o


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## Beardo (Mar 14, 2005)

bagheera said:
			
		

> Garter snakes *certainly* have fangs. Nice long backwards curving ones. I know quite well as I once spent a half an hour coaxing off my finger. He swallowed my middle finger, up to my hand!   Cut my finger to ribbons once he was extracted! :8o


_All_ snakes have backwards curving teeth lol....its so they can hold onto their prey better.


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## Crunchie (Mar 14, 2005)

bagheera said:
			
		

> Garter snakes *certainly* have fangs. Nice long backwards curving ones. I know quite well as I once spent a half an hour coaxing off my finger. He swallowed my middle finger, up to my hand!   Cut my finger to ribbons once he was extracted! :8o


Join the club! It's a pain in the neck(finger) aint it!  My little 2' lad managed to do the same with my thumb though thankfully it didnt talk as long to get him off. Cant imagine what it would have been like if it had taken half an hour!


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## becca81 (Mar 14, 2005)

I don't think it really matters if the snake is venomous or not.  If it is capable of rearing up on the T, then it could bite the spider.  Even if there is no venom injected, a bite could possibly fatally injure the T.

Yes, this does happen in the wild.  Does the T always win?  I doubt it.

Yes, I've got "Predators of the Wild."  So what?  One spider gets the snake.  That doesn't mean that every spider is going to be successful, and I believe that that is stated in the video.  The video also depicts a much larger spider.


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## Kid Dragon (Mar 14, 2005)

becca81 said:
			
		

> I don't think it really matters if the snake is venomous or not.  If it is capable of rearing up on the T, then it could bite the spider.  Even if there is no venom injected, a bite could possibly fatally injure the T.
> 
> Yes, this does happen in the wild.  Does the T always win?  I doubt it.
> 
> Yes, I've got "Predators of the Wild."  So what?  One spider gets the snake.  That doesn't mean that every spider is going to be successful, and I believe that that is stated in the video.  The video also depicts a much larger spider.


I doubt it was staged...Ts eat huge pit vipers all the time. I feed my A. versicolor slings eastern diamondbacks. Nine out of ten versicolor slings perfer diamondbacks to pinheads. That video was funnier than "Eight Legged Freaks".


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## Apocalypstick (Mar 14, 2005)

I feel so sorry for pinkies... I can't watch if it is alive.
Nature is cruel... the snake very easily could have 'reared up' and killed the T... that's how it is


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## David Burns (Mar 14, 2005)

Besides the snake biting don't they coil around their prey or as a defense from attackers. This week-end I saw a corn snake take a pinkie and there was a lot of coiling going on. If that had happened to a T the snake could have broken off legs or crushed an abdomen. This corn snake was only about a foot long and I wouldn't have given it to my hungry 7" C.crawshayi because of possible damage to the T.


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## shogun804 (Mar 14, 2005)

Kid Dragon said:
			
		

> I doubt it was staged...Ts eat huge pit vipers all the time. I feed my A. versicolor slings eastern diamondbacks. Nine out of ten versicolor slings perfer diamondbacks to pinheads. That video was funnier than "Eight Legged Freaks".


what?? as in eastern diamond back rattle snakes. T's eat huge pit vipers all the time any proof?  

back to topic yeah that does not seem like the best idea but it is your T and you can feed it whatever youd like.


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## Blasphemy (Mar 14, 2005)

pinktoes804 said:
			
		

> Kid Dragon said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is your sarcasm detector not working right? Mine exploded when I read that.


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## shogun804 (Mar 14, 2005)

damn it thats twice today this is happened  :8o


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## Beardo (Mar 14, 2005)

David Burns said:
			
		

> Besides the snake biting don't they coil around their prey or as a defense from attackers. This week-end I saw a corn snake take a pinkie and there was a lot of coiling going on. If that had happened to a T the snake could have broken off legs or crushed an abdomen. This corn snake was only about a foot long and I wouldn't have given it to my hungry 7" C.crawshayi because of possible damage to the T.


Corn Snakes are constrictors. They kill their prey by constriction, that is why you saw the snake coiling around the pinky.


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## David Burns (Mar 14, 2005)

I thought all snake are the same.:wall: live and learn. Thanks for the info.


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## blacktara (Mar 18, 2005)

*Lemme get this right*

Capturing healthy wild animals and keeping them in captivity for the rest of their lives is acceptable

Breeding other animals solely so they can be fed to critters we keep in captivity is also acceptable

Handling animals and thereby stressing them is ok if this animal is your pet or your "prized T" - even tho in the wild it is not natural for these animals to be handled (or kept as pets) by man

But sacrificing an injured animal to feed another is "playing God" 

I'm not saying dont keep pets. I am not trying to claim that animals have equal "rights" with man. I am most definately not a PETA freak

I am just saying I dont see the logic in that line of reasoning


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