# i need ID please!!



## rochin (Nov 26, 2008)

this sp was found in Baja California Mexico, The pictures were taken while transfering him/her to his new home. thanks in advance guys!! in one of the pics you can see my friend's hand for size comparison.... cheers!!


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## Comatose (Nov 26, 2008)

It appears to be a scolopendra...any chance of getting a closer shot of the head with antennae included?


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## peterbourbon (Nov 26, 2008)

Hi,

very interesting and good looking pede.
I guess it will be impossible to ID without detail pics.
Actually there are 13 possibilities of _Scolopendra_ living in Mexico.

Of course i personally would exclude 4 or 5, but nevertheless there will be some species left. 

Regards
Turgut


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## rochin (Nov 26, 2008)

thanks for the replies guys, i tought it was going to be kind of easy to identify    because in my very little experience with scolopendras, i noticed that the colors of this scolopendra sp. are very peculiar especially the black head


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## nissan480 (Nov 27, 2008)

FANTASTIC lookin pede you got there!!!

Take some better pics of this guy and lets see what we can figure out.Very curious to see what we have here.


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## szappan (Nov 27, 2008)

WOW!  Gorgeous!  I've never seen one like that... My first guess would've been a _sc. heros_ color variant, but I'm not sure if they're found that far west.  Second guess would be _sc. polymorpha_, but they don't get that big.  Both the species I've mentioned have ring furrows, as does this one... OK, I'm stumped...

I eagerly await the experts to chime in...


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## ahas (Nov 27, 2008)

Now, that' s beauty!  Love the black head.

Fred


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## Steven (Nov 27, 2008)

I would also say _Scolopendra polymorpha_,
basing on the antennae segments,size and locality,....
and i seem to remember that this colorform allready has been posted here before :razz: 



@Turgut,
Baja California is quite a specific place,
i wouldn't count on mainland Mexican specie


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## peterbourbon (Nov 27, 2008)

Steven said:


> I would also say _Scolopendra polymorpha_,
> @Turgut,
> Baja California is quite a specific place,
> i wouldn't count on mainland Mexican specie


I hope you considered all the valid _Scolopendra viridis_-subspecies since _viridis_ is closely related to _Scolopendra polymorpha_ and was even considered as variety of same species in past? 

The short/thin terminals and very robust body confuses me a little bit. 
But maybe you are right. 

Regards
Turgut


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## Steven (Nov 27, 2008)

Hey Turgut,


			
				peterbourbon said:
			
		

> I hope you considered all the valid Scolopendra viridis-subspecies


yes, that's also why i wrote this


Steven said:


> Baja California is quite a specific place,


since it's the hotspot of _Scolopendra viridis lagunensis_ 


maybe i'm wrong (or just lazy, not checking any articles  )
but isn't the difference between viridis and polymorpha based on the smooth antennae segments (beside other things)? :? 
it made me decide "polymorpha" instead of "viridis"


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## peterbourbon (Nov 27, 2008)

Steven said:


> but isn't the difference between viridis and polymorpha based on the smooth antennae segments (beside other things)? :?


Yes, and the side thorn on prefemur (which consists of only 2 spines in viridis and mostly 4 up to 9 spines in polymorpha). But we can't look it up 

I'm really not so sure if i see more than 7 naked antenna segments. 
Interesting nerd discussion. 

Regards
Turgut


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## Steven (Nov 27, 2008)

peterbourbon said:


> I'm really not so sure if i see more than 7 naked antenna segments.


me neither,
but you have to trow in a guess to start a discussion, isn't it  ?



peterbourbon said:


> Interesting nerd discussion.


hehehe, yes indeed


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## Comatose (Nov 27, 2008)

May I join the discussion? 



peterbourbon said:


> Yes, and the side thorn on prefemur (which consists of only 2 spines in viridis and mostly 4 up to 9 spines in polymorpha). But we can't look it up


My literature indicates tha viridis can have 8-15 ventral spines on the prefemur...am I misinformed?




peterbourbon said:


> I'm really not so sure if i see more than 7 naked antenna segments.
> Interesting nerd discussion.
> 
> Regards
> Turgut


I don't know if I qualify for nerd yet as I have to ask what naked segments are...may I settle for geek?


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## peterbourbon (Nov 28, 2008)

Comatose said:


> May I join the discussion?
> My literature indicates tha viridis can have 8-15 ventral spines on the prefemur...am I misinformed?


You are right, but...hm...if you compare the spines of _Sc. polymorpha_ and _Sc. viridis_ on terminal legs you get a little bit confused, because the descriptions differ and can't really be compared. I give you a concrete example:

_Sc. viridis_: 8-15 ventrally, 3-5 above-medially
_Sc. polymorpha_: ventral-laterally 8-10, ventraly-medially, medially and above-medially together with 7-13 spines.

You see: To have a clear comparison the description lacks comparable material...if we sum up, _Sc. viridis_ should have 11-20 spines and _Sc. polymorpha_ 15-23 spines on prefemur.

Now we could say if it has less than 15 spines, it's definitely Sc. virdis...and if it has more than 20 it is Sc. polymorpha.

Nevertheless: It's not uncommon that centipedes have some more or even lack spines on terminals - due to regeneration, molt and variation.

I guess you refer to 
_Shelley R.M. (2002) "A synopsis of the North American centipedes of the order Scolopendromorpha (Chilopoda)" Virginia Museum of Natural History Memoir_.

I only have the document at home - what does it exactly say about terminal spines of polymorpha?

BTW.: I guess it would be much easier to have detail pics of antenna since it's not that complicated to photograph. 

(Naked, glabrous antenna segments..or better "sparsely hirsute antenna segments" are the segments that lack (better: have not that dense) hair counted from head). 


Regards
Turgut


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## Comatose (Nov 28, 2008)

Ah; so naked would be analogous to smooth...understood.

I have actually not read the shelley article but will...I was referring to some older literature by Carl Sandefer; he was one of the first hobbiests in the US to work with pedes and certainly the first to write a hobby oriented book on them. 

I totally agree with you on variations within species on terminal leg spines...I've always viewed that as a secondary identification method. The trouble for me is I've been intermittantly in and out of the hobby over the past few years and it seems like leaps and bounds have been made in the area of ID'ing. I'm going to need to go through some of these articles to bring myself up to speed...


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## rochin (Nov 29, 2008)

some more pics hope they help....  thanks for all the replies


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## Comatose (Nov 29, 2008)

My money is on viridis...I love how the black fades over the first five tergites.


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## peterbourbon (Nov 29, 2008)

My money is on Steven! 

Regards
Turgut


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## Comatose (Nov 29, 2008)

peterbourbon said:


> My money is on Steven!
> 
> Regards
> Turgut


Lol...he does tend to change the odds doesn't he...


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## Galapoheros (Nov 29, 2008)

I really like the look of that one!  I have one that is that big and with the same look and color, except the head is a rusty red, almost orange like the rest of the body.  It leans towards polymorpha too but I'm not convinced yet, have to call them something though.  But it could be another species that happens to have the same naked antennomere count as polys do.  I think it needs more looking into by professional scientists if it hasn't been done already.  What city was closest to the spot where you found it?  That's pretty rad, I like it.


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## peterbourbon (Nov 29, 2008)

Galapoheros said:


> But it could be another species that happens to have the same naked antennomere count as polys do.


The very high count of antenna segments excludes most of the possible mexican species - that's why i personally (and i'm sure Steven, too) restricted the view on _Sc. viridis_, _Sc. heros_,  _Sc. pachygnatha_ and _Sc. polymorpha_.

Regards
Turgut


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## Galapoheros (Nov 29, 2008)

I see, I wasn't totally focusing on this thread when I was thinking about it.  There was an older thread with a pic of one I have that really looks like that without the black head and people were leaning real hard towards it being a poly.  I just wasn't and I'm still not as convinced as they were at the time.  I don't even know if the one I have is the species in this thread.  I don't think I've heard of Scolopendra pachygnatha.  Does anybody have a pic I can look at, I'm curious to see one, I don't know, maybe I have.


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## Steven (Nov 30, 2008)

I don't think Scolopendra pachygnatha ever has been in the hobby,
and if it has, i don't think it looked as stunning as this one :razz: 
As far as i know pachygnatha is more a central mexican pede, so the only way it could reach Baja California is if someone trew it over the Gulf of California   


serious now:
PS: my money still is on Sc.polymorpha 

PS2: also think about what's in the name:
_poly_ - _morpha_ you know what i mean ?


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## Elytra and Antenna (Dec 2, 2008)

Comatose said:


> My money is on viridis...I love how the black fades over the first five tergites.


 Sorry you lost your money then. _S. viridis _maximum width is 5mm.


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## peterbourbon (Dec 2, 2008)

Hi,

what do you exactly mean with "width"?
My _Sc. viridis_ is approx. 1cm in width (without counting legs of course).

Where do you got that information from?

Regards
Turgut


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## Elytra and Antenna (Dec 2, 2008)

R. M. Shelley's diagnosis p. 13. Synopsis of NA Centipedes. 2002. It would appear you don't have S.viridis unless you have some evidence Shelley is wrong. S. viridis doesn't vary in adults size like S.polymorpha.


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## peterbourbon (Dec 2, 2008)

Hi,

that's interesting, cause in the earlier description of _Say and Kraepelin_ it fits perfectly and says "length up to 90mm, but in most cases only 50-60mm."

The original description refers to length not width.
I wouldn't wonder if it's just a misinterpretation in revision - but who knows?

Regards
Turgut


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## nhaverland413 (Dec 2, 2008)

Where in Baja did you find this beauty?


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## Comatose (Dec 3, 2008)

Elytra and Antenna said:


> Sorry you lost your money then. _S. viridis _maximum width is 5mm.


I'm sorry but I just don't buy that...though I do value Steven's opinion (and yours for that matter) and would gladly cut my loss and pay it in drinks :} .


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## jettubes (Dec 4, 2008)

thats a very interesting looking pede. it wil be nteresting to find out what species this is, i cant make out in the pic but does the cephalic plate overlap tergite 1? this will indicate> Scolopendra, what other sp around that area get as large as that? im guessing polymorpha anything eles?


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## Galapoheros (Dec 4, 2008)

This is unlikely but, what about a possibility of it being a scolopendra that hasn't been scientifically described?


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## Comatose (Dec 4, 2008)

In the world of Scolopendra I always assume that's a possibility.


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## David Burns (Jan 28, 2009)

Elytra and Antenna said:


> Sorry you lost your money then. _S. viridis _maximum width is 5mm.


5mm = 3/16"


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## Hercules Hernandez (Apr 27, 2019)

That’s a nice looking aztecorum, man!

I love the Baja locales.




rochin said:


> this sp was found in Baja California Mexico, The pictures were taken while transfering him/her to his new home. thanks in advance guys!! in one of the pics you can see my friend's hand for size comparison.... cheers!!


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