# Can dogs hybridize with wild dogs other than coyotes and wolves?



## bugmankeith (Oct 15, 2010)

What about foxes, maned wolf, dhole, raccoon dog, or jackals? 

And, I heard of a successful hybridization between a male chihuahua and female wolf (artificial insemination), but cant find any pictures as it has rarely even been considered to be humane to do by most who can keep wolf hybrids. All I found is that the dog was medium sized with a long coat, but body shape looked like a large chihuahua. With a chihuahua's bad attitude and wolf's strength, that dog would probably be aggressive.


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## LeilaNami (Oct 15, 2010)

bugmankeith said:


> What about foxes, maned wolf, dhole, raccoon dog, or jackals?
> 
> And, I heard of a successful hybridization between a male chihuahua and female wolf (artificial insemination), but cant find any pictures as it has rarely even been considered to be humane to do by most who can keep wolf hybrids. All I found is that the dog was medium sized with a long coat, but body shape looked like a large chihuahua. With a chihuahua's bad attitude and wolf's strength, that dog would probably be aggressive.


It isn't humane because more often than not, the litters have to be put down due to deformities or are stillborn.  Dogs can _possibly_ hybridize by artificial insemination with an Canis sp.  They are more easily hybridized with Canus lupus because they are (were) a subspecies. Cross-genera hybrids are rare and difficult to accomplish.

Here is what I said in another thread as tidbit about dogs and wolves.  Canis lupus familiaris (domestic dog) has been artificially bred into what more and more people are considering separate species.  That is, some breeds of dogs are still close enough to the original species to remain Canis lupus familiaris while others are so far away that based on physical compatibility (a major factor in species determination), they are separate species.  Problem is, no one wants to do the work to reclassify them (*cough*Birds*cough*)


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## bugmankeith (Oct 15, 2010)

Hmm so I see why it isn't often attempted. Honestly though, it would be interesting to know, if we knew someone would care for the off spring if they were healthy. Cant be any worse than some genetic issues our pure breeds have.

Found this page, very interesting read! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canid_hybrid


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## LeilaNami (Oct 16, 2010)

bugmankeith said:


> Hmm so I see why it isn't often attempted. Honestly though, it would be interesting to know, if we knew someone would care for the off spring if they were healthy. Cant be any worse than some genetic issues our pure breeds have.
> 
> Found this page, very interesting read! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canid_hybrid


I know many wolf hybrids and they really don't have physical problems outside of what purebred large breed dogs might have.  I believe they can be sensitive to anesthesia and certain medications like large breed sight hounds, though.  There are other mental factors involved with owning wolf hybrids that are predominantly wolf that people should keep in mind (e.g. increased roaming desire in males and they certainly are escape artists). Now, some breeds are relatively compatible with wolves and produce healthy offspring.  Husky/wolf hybrids and malamute/wolf hybrids are the most often seen.  Something like a chihuahua/wolf hybrid is just asking for dead puppies.  Even small breeds bred with large breeds can cause the same issue.  I've assisted in an emergency C-section of a dauschund accidentally bred by a lab and the puppy was stillborn and rotting.


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## bugmankeith (Oct 16, 2010)

Well the wolf would have to be female and mated with a male chihuahua, no way a female chihuahua could produce offspring if mated with a male wolf.


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## Offkillter (Oct 16, 2010)

bugmankeith said:


> Well the wolf would have to be female and mated with a male chihuahua, no way a female chihuahua could produce offspring if mated with a male wolf.



What about a bulldog with a dingo?A bingo?


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## stevetastic (Oct 16, 2010)

Maned wolf, dhole and raccoon dog aren't in the same genus as dogs, wolves and coyotes so hybridizing them would have many more variables.  It would be like a grizzly and a panda mating.  It would however be very irresponsible to try (especially with a dhole).


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## pitbulllady (Oct 16, 2010)

Domestic dogs have successfully bred and produced offspring with wolves, coyotes and jackals.  In fact, there is a breed of dog developed in Russia for the sole purpose of detecting explosives and contraband in airports and on planes, called a Sulimov Dog:  http://www.innovations-report.com/html/reports/interdisciplinary_research/report-9792.html and http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2572499.stm .   The cross is not as easily achieved as that between a wolf and a dog or a coyote and a dog, probably because jackals have a different social system than wolves, and therefore jackals to be used in the program must be raised by a Husky female to imprint on domesticated dogs before they are willing to mate with them, similar to how Servals and Asian Leopard Cats have to raised by a domestic cat female to create the Savannah and Bengal cat breeds, respectively.  Fertility, though, does not seem to be an issue with the various _Canis_ genus crosses, which does call into question the very designation of "species" with these.  In 1993, domesticated dogs were formally reclassified as _Canis lupus familiaris_, a subspecies of wolf, since DNA evidence did not indicate enough of a difference between wild wolves and dogs to warrant separate species status.  One of my own personal aquaintances was involved in that very research, and told me that there are more genetic differences within members of OUR species than between wolves and dogs, and that is taking into account that we ourselves have quite limited genetic diversity owing to our close brush with extinction about 75,000 years ago.  Wolves have repeatedly influenced the gene pool of dogs throughout history, intentionally(with human intent)and unintentionally(uncontrolled breedings), and vice versa; recent analysis of the genetics of black wild wolves in North America(black-phase wolves do not occur anywhere else)has shown them to have strong amounts of Asian domestic dog DNA, making them more closely related to the rather diminuative Carolina Dogs of the deep South than to the large Arctic wolves.

I do not use the term "wolf-hybrid".  There is no such thing, not when it's a cross of domestic dog and wolf.  Those are just mixed-breed dogs as far as I'm concerned.  I've had wolf-dog crosses of various wolf percentage, and pure wolves.  The only health issue that cropped up was in a breeding I did of a 75% wolf, 25% Alaskan Malamute female to a pure wolf.  One pup in that litter developed Von Wilbrand's Disease, a genetic bleeding disorder most common in Dobermans and had to be euthanized at the age of four.  They are more sensitive to vaccines, anesthetics, etc, but so are many dog breeds, especially the Sighthounds and the Asian primitive breeds, like Akitas and Shiba Inus.

I HAVE personally witnessed captive matings between dogs and both red and gray foxes, but neither produced offspring.  They are not of the same genus, and foxes split off from the other canids too long ago to be viable in reproduction with any of the others.

pitbulllady


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## LeilaNami (Oct 17, 2010)

pitbulllady said:


> Domestic dogs have successfully bred and produced offspring with wolves, coyotes and jackals.  In fact, there is a breed of dog developed in Russia for the sole purpose of detecting explosives and contraband in airports and on planes, called a Sulimov Dog:  http://www.innovations-report.com/html/reports/interdisciplinary_research/report-9792.html and http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2572499.stm .   The cross is not as easily achieved as that between a wolf and a dog or a coyote and a dog, probably because jackals have a different social system than wolves, and therefore jackals to be used in the program must be raised by a Husky female to imprint on domesticated dogs before they are willing to mate with them, similar to how Servals and Asian Leopard Cats have to raised by a domestic cat female to create the Savannah and Bengal cat breeds, respectively.  Fertility, though, does not seem to be an issue with the various _Canis_ genus crosses, which does call into question the very designation of "species" with these.  In 1993, domesticated dogs were formally reclassified as _Canis lupus familiaris_, a subspecies of wolf, since DNA evidence did not indicate enough of a difference between wild wolves and dogs to warrant separate species status.  One of my own personal aquaintances was involved in that very research, and told me that there are more genetic differences within members of OUR species than between wolves and dogs, and that is taking into account that we ourselves have quite limited genetic diversity owing to our close brush with extinction about 75,000 years ago.  Wolves have repeatedly influenced the gene pool of dogs throughout history, intentionally(with human intent)and unintentionally(uncontrolled breedings), and vice versa; recent analysis of the genetics of black wild wolves in North America(black-phase wolves do not occur anywhere else)has shown them to have strong amounts of Asian domestic dog DNA, making them more closely related to the rather diminuative Carolina Dogs of the deep South than to the large Arctic wolves.
> 
> I do not use the term "wolf-hybrid".  There is no such thing, not when it's a cross of domestic dog and wolf.  Those are just mixed-breed dogs as far as I'm concerned.  I've had wolf-dog crosses of various wolf percentage, and pure wolves.  The only health issue that cropped up was in a breeding I did of a 75% wolf, 25% Alaskan Malamute female to a pure wolf.  One pup in that litter developed Von Wilbrand's Disease, a genetic bleeding disorder most common in Dobermans and had to be euthanized at the age of four.  They are more sensitive to vaccines, anesthetics, etc, but so are many dog breeds, especially the Sighthounds and the Asian primitive breeds, like Akitas and Shiba Inus.
> 
> ...


It does challenge the view of what a species is and unfortunately there really isn't one definition of how to determine a species.  The biological concept is two animals able to produce viable offspring are the same species however it has been observed where the first generations or the first few generations are viable but fertility decreases overtime to produce a sterile generation.  There are other ways to define a species and the biological concept doesn't account for everything.  As you mentioned, they were classified as a subspecies but there is newer talk of certain breeds of dog being separate species due to physical incompatibility (also part of species definition according to the biological species concept).  Regardless of how close they may be genetically, physical compatibility is a major factor in defining a species. 

Bugman, yes, if the female was a chihuahua, she would probably die before being unable to carry the pups to term.


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## Ookamii (Oct 17, 2010)

I have personally seen a wolf/chihuahua mix, it was a pup. It was at the HSPCA, thay look like a overly fluffy husky in the face, and chihuahua body. Small female dogs CAN breed with large male dogs and some times have no issues, My dog is 1/2 Doberman 1/2 Bull terrier. her mom was the terrier. Her Brothers are 1/2 bull terrier 1/2 husky for one, 1/2 bull terrier 1/2 Rott for two and 1/2 bull terrier 1/2 German Shep for three. My dog looks like a 4 month old Pure breed dobi w/o ears or tail docked, but shes 4 years this year. Breeding a fox with a dog is like breeding a giraff with a horse just because thay look slightly simular. You can try artificial insimination all you want but it wont make any babies.


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## jebbewocky (Oct 18, 2010)

If you think this is complicated, just look at plants.
Plants can be different species, different genera, and result in hybrids that will are perfectly fine for generations.


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## pitbulllady (Oct 18, 2010)

jebbewocky said:


> If you think this is complicated, just look at plants.
> Plants can be different species, different genera, and result in hybrids that will are perfectly fine for generations.


Yeah, but true hybrid plants cannot reproduce.  You might get seeds, but they won't germinate.  That is why each generation is a "dead end".  Many, like the hybrid "Tea" roses, cannot survive on their own but must be grafted to the root stock of a wild rose in order to be viable.

pitbulllady


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## blacktara (Oct 19, 2010)

bugmankeith said:


> Well the wolf would have to be female and mated with a male chihuahua, no way a female chihuahua could produce offspring if mated with a male wolf.


I'd be willing to bet that if a wolf saw a chihuahua it's much more likely to think "LUNCH!" than "ooo SEXY!!!"

Dingos breed with domestic dogs - then again most of the "dingos" around these days are actually already hybrids


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## pitbulllady (Oct 19, 2010)

blacktara said:


> I'd be willing to bet that if a wolf saw a chihuahua it's much more likely to think "LUNCH!" than "ooo SEXY!!!"
> 
> Dingos breed with domestic dogs - then again most of the "dingos" around these days are actually already hybrids


Dingoes actually ARE domesticated dogs, or more correctly, feral dogs, a domesticated animal that has returned to a wild existance.  Their ancestors were domesticated hunting companions of early Asian travelers, and these people took their dogs to the Pacific islands(including New Guinea and Australia)and to North and South America.  DNA has proven what I have always believed, that they are closely related to the native primitive breeds of Japan and Korea, like the Akita Inu and Jindo.

pitbulllady


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