# Emperor Living in water dish?



## CBlackrose (Jul 8, 2016)

Hey all,

I picked up an emperor scorpion from a pet store that was going out of business fairly recently and I've been noticing that he spends almost all of his time either in his water dish, or curled up next to it. Everything I've read has suggested that emperors like to burrow, and he doesn't really do any of that, preferring to live above ground. I've got a nice sized hollow ceramic rock in there with him to live under, and I even dug out a small dip to start a burrow off for him, but he refuses to live under it. I did purchase a red heat lamp bulb recently, as I've been having great trouble keeping the terrarium properly heated with heat pads. The research I did suggested that as long as it's a red bulb and doesn't produce UV light that I should be fine, but it's entirely possible that the information was incorrect.

I've also yet to see him eat, but I keep a couple of crickets and mealworms in with him and they always disappear without a trace over the course of a few days, so I assume that I'm just not seeing it when he does eat but I've been keeping a close eye on him for that too.

I've got a thermometer and hygrometer in with him to monitor his surroundings, and I mist the substrate once a day but is there anything else that I could be doing? Is this normal scorpion behaviour? I know that they don't tend to do a whole lot, but I thought that they were supposed to spend a lot of their time underground.


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## shining (Jul 8, 2016)

CBlackrose said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I picked up an emperor scorpion from a pet store that was going out of business fairly recently and I've been noticing that he spends almost all of his time either in his water dish, or curled up next to it. Everything I've read has suggested that emperors like to burrow, and he doesn't really do any of that, preferring to live above ground. I've got a nice sized hollow ceramic rock in there with him to live under, and I even dug out a small dip to start a burrow off for him, but he refuses to live under it. I did purchase a red heat lamp bulb recently, as I've been having great trouble keeping the terrarium properly heated with heat pads. The research I did suggested that as long as it's a red bulb and doesn't produce UV light that I should be fine, but it's entirely possible that the information was incorrect.
> 
> ...


Pics of the setup and scorpion would help getting to the bottom of this.

Also, heat pads are bad, mmmkay.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Chris LXXIX (Jul 8, 2016)

I would remove ASAP that lamp, and those items called "thermometer" and "hygrometer". 99% of those are useless, inaccurate garbage good only for deliver headache to keepers & a bad care for the inverts, especially when trying to reach the "perfect" level of humidity, following those, ending with the poor bugger living in a pool.

Inches of slightly moist substrate, a water dish always full, a good piece of cork bark. That's what you need, IMO.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Leonardo the Mage (Jul 8, 2016)

CBlackrose said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I picked up an emperor scorpion from a pet store that was going out of business fairly recently and I've been noticing that he spends almost all of his time either in his water dish, or curled up next to it. Everything I've read has suggested that emperors like to burrow, and he doesn't really do any of that, preferring to live above ground. I've got a nice sized hollow ceramic rock in there with him to live under, and I even dug out a small dip to start a burrow off for him, but he refuses to live under it. I did purchase a red heat lamp bulb recently, as I've been having great trouble keeping the terrarium properly heated with heat pads. The research I did suggested that as long as it's a red bulb and doesn't produce UV light that I should be fine, but it's entirely possible that the information was incorrect.
> 
> ...


Heat pads and lamps are terrible desiccants (they dry stuff out,) and can overheat an enclosure very easily. Unless you like the smell of stir-fried scorpion, at least get rid of the heat pads.

Misting the substrate is also pointless, especially under that much heat. Just take a cup of water every few days and pour it everywhere your scorpion isn't. Keep the water dish constantly full. If you need to ( if you live in a desert,) you can also restrict ventilation with saran-wrap or tape.


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## Formerphobe (Jul 9, 2016)

Devil's advocate...
If set up properly, heat mats and red lamps are fine. It needs to be a big enough enclosure that it won't overheat.
Heat mat goes on the side, not the bottom, of the enclosure above the level of the substrate. For us nosy folks a low wattage (40 watt or less) red lamp is fine, provided it can be situated high enough above the enclosure that it doesn't over heat it. 
Must keep in mind that heat dries things out faster so more water needs to be added more often 
Misting, temperature gauges and hygrometers are useless.
I overflow the water bowls and pour water around the perimeter of my enclosure once a week or so.

My six generation P imperator colony is in a 50 gallon tank with about 8 inches of damp soil, a heat mat on one end, 40 watt red lamp above, two wide mouth waterbowls, live plants to help maintain humidity, isopods as a clean up crew.The screen lid is 98% sealed with plastic wrap. The colony has been going strong since December 2009.

Imperators have been reported to soak in their water bowls. The only time I've seen this was when I got in some new males to add to the gene pool. They must have gotten dehydrated during shipping and spent their first 12 hours or so soaking and drinking. Once sated, they went to ground.

Reactions: Agree 3 | Award 1


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## JoshBC (Jul 9, 2016)

shining said:


> Pics of the setup and scorpion would help getting to the bottom of this.
> 
> Also, heat pads are bad, mmmkay.


Why are heat pads bad? I keep reading this, but I have heat pads on all 3 of my terrariums and all of my scorps are thriving. I've read of under-mounted heat pads 'frying' scorps, but from what I've seen from my emp, I just can't see that happening. In instances where this has happened was the entire bottom of the terrarium covered by the heat pad? Leaving nowhere for the scorp to go cool off? I also read on this post to pour water "where the scorpion isn't" but my P. Cavimanus has a maze of tunnels dug in her enclosure. How can I know where she is/isn't? I mist every other day. The days I don't mist I turn the humidifier on low for 15 minutes or so. Like I said, she seems to be really thriving. Any info would be a big help & really appreciated. I'll post a recent pic of her terrarium. Ignore the piece of train track, my 3 year old felt like adding his own touch


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## JoshBC (Jul 9, 2016)

Leonardo the Mage said:


> Heat pads and lamps are terrible desiccants (they dry stuff out,) and can overheat an enclosure very easily. Unless you like the smell of stir-fried scorpion, at least get rid of the heat pads.
> 
> Misting the substrate is also pointless, especially under that much heat. Just take a cup of water every few days and pour it everywhere your scorpion isn't. Keep the water dish constantly full. If you need to ( if you live in a desert,) you can also restrict ventilation with saran-wrap or tape.


? If you don't use heat pads or lamps, what do you heat your terrarium with? Also, how do you know where your scorp is/isn't? In regards to pouring water in there. My scorp is almost always 'underground' in her tunnels/burrow.


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## Formerphobe (Jul 9, 2016)

My scorpions are nearly always underground, too. It's what they do. Misting dampens the surface of the soil and it dries out quickly only increasing humidity for a short while. I have seen set ups with automatic misters that go off several times a day causing soil to be constantly damp and keeping the humidity high. In lieu of a set up like that, pouring water into the soil is the next most effective way.  There's 100 pounds of dirt in my enclosure. If I relied on a hand mister, I'd have to quit my job and stand over the scorpion tank all day.

Scorpions burrow to get away from the heat. If the heat mat is on the bottom, you've defeated that purpose. You can't over ride millions of years of conditioning. They are programmed to dig to where it is supposed to be cooler than the above ground temps. 

There is a good Emperor Care thread bookmarked on here somewhere by the administrators.


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## Leonardo the Mage (Jul 9, 2016)

JoshBC said:


> ? If you don't use heat pads or lamps, what do you heat your terrarium with? Also, how do you know where your scorp is/isn't? In regards to pouring water in there. My scorp is almost always 'underground' in her tunnels/burrow.


Unless your house is uncomfortably cool, outside heat sources really aren't needed under most conditions. As long as you're keeping the room between 22-35 degrees celsius (between  72-95 fahrenheit for you yanks ) they will be fine. For breeding or if you want them to grow faster, you will likely want a warmer setup, so in this case you could heat the entire room with a space heater. But unless you're breeding or have a special setup like @Formerphobe you really don't need one. 

As far as pouring water, if they are underground then you don't need to worry about where they are, as the reason I specified not pouring water on them is because a direct hit from a cup of three inches above the substrate might hurt them and will definitely piss them off. I they're underground, they won't get hit directly.



Formerphobe said:


> Devil's advocate...
> If set up properly, heat mats and red lamps are fine. It needs to be a big enough enclosure that it won't overheat.
> Heat mat goes on the side, not the bottom, of the enclosure above the level of the substrate. For us nosy folks a low wattage (40 watt or less) red lamp is fine, provided it can be situated high enough above the enclosure that it doesn't over heat it.
> Must keep in mind that heat dries things out faster so more water needs to be added more often
> ...





Formerphobe said:


> My scorpions are nearly always underground, too. It's what they do. Misting dampens the surface of the soil and it dries out quickly only increasing humidity for a short while. I have seen set ups with automatic misters that go off several times a day causing soil to be constantly damp and keeping the humidity high. In lieu of a set up like that, pouring water into the soil is the next most effective way.  There's 100 pounds of dirt in my enclosure. If I relied on a hand mister, I'd have to quit my job and stand over the scorpion tank all day.
> 
> Scorpions burrow to get away from the heat. If the heat mat is on the bottom, you've defeated that purpose. You can't over ride millions of years of conditioning. They are programmed to dig to where it is supposed to be cooler than the above ground temps.
> 
> There is a good Emperor Care thread bookmarked on here somewhere by the administrators.


MY GOD that sounds like an epic setup! you should write a report on how you keep and maintain that large of a colony!

Reactions: Agree 1 | Helpful 1


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## Formerphobe (Jul 9, 2016)

Leonardo the Mage said:


> Unless your house is uncomfortably cool, outside heat sources really aren't needed under most conditions. As long as you're keeping the room between 22-35 degrees celsius (between  72-95 fahrenheit for you yanks ) they will be fine. For breeding or if you want them to grow faster, you will likely want a warmer setup, so in this case you could heat the entire room with a space heater. But unless you're breeding or have a special setup like @Formerphobe you really don't need one.
> 
> As far as pouring water, if they are underground then you don't need to worry about where they are, as the reason I specified not pouring water on them is because a direct hit from a cup of three inches above the substrate might hurt them and will definitely piss them off. I they're underground, they won't get hit directly.
> 
> ...


There is an old thread on here somewhere showing how I set up the 50 gallon when I transferred them from the 35 gallon. Title was something like Maternal Emperors.
I don't have a computer any longer and it's tedious to try to do a search on my phone.


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## Smokehound714 (Jul 9, 2016)

The hands-down best heat source for scorps is an IR heat lamp, which may be positioned in such a manner that the scorpion gets a constant stable level of warmth without the problem of hot spots caused by normal heat lamps.

  Also take care not to confuse pandinus with heterometrus, which are bonafide water lovers.


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## shining (Jul 9, 2016)

Formerphobe said:


> There is an old thread on here somewhere showing how I set up the 50 gallon when I transferred them from the 35 gallon. Title was something like Maternal Emperors.
> I don't have a computer any longer and it's tedious to try to do a search on my phone.


Found it, was in the second page of your postings list on your profile.

http://arachnoboards.com/threads/maternal-p-imperators.246205/

Reading through that thread really made me miss my emps. :/


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## CBlackrose (Jul 9, 2016)

Smokehound714 said:


> Also take care not to confuse pandinus with heterometrus, which are bonafide water lovers.


That's the thing, the pet store sold it to me as an emperor scorpion, which it does resemble, but it doesn't seem to really behave like one, doesn't look like it's quite big enough and it seems way more aggressive so I would definitely believe it if it turned out to be a heterometrus or a red claw.

Here are some pictures of my current setup, the enclosure averages between 82 and 90 degrees Fahrenheit:



















Currently the heat pad isn't actually connected, and I have tinfoil over most of the top other than where the door to the terrarium is and where the light is positioned.

Edit: Here's a better picture of the little guy, in case anybody with more experience is able to tell if it's not actually an emperor:


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## Smokehound714 (Jul 9, 2016)

82-90 is waaaaaaaaaaay too hot.

  For pandinus, room temp (75 degrees to clarify) is fine.

 That temp is also suitable for heterometrus so long as you can keep it stable, which is why i suggest an infrared lamp (not a red basking light)


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## CBlackrose (Jul 9, 2016)

Smokehound714 said:


> 82-90 is waaaaaaaaaaay too hot.
> 
> For pandinus, room temp (75 degrees to clarify) is fine.
> 
> That temp is also suitable for heterometrus so long as you can keep it stable, which is why i suggest an infrared lamp (not a red basking light)


Ah, crap, I'm glad you cleared that up for me. I don't want him to suffer, dunno why so many sources told me that I needed it that hot. I should be able to maintain a stable 75 without any extra heating, definitely with the heat pad I currently have so I'll probably be fine without a lamp. Also, is there any surefire way to tell the difference between a P. imperator and an H. spinifer without taking it to an expert? Now that I take a closer look at the picture on wikipedia, he does kind of look like a heterometrus.


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## Leonardo the Mage (Jul 10, 2016)

CBlackrose said:


> Ah, crap, I'm glad you cleared that up for me. I don't want him to suffer, dunno why so many sources told me that I needed it that hot. I should be able to maintain a stable 75 without any extra heating, definitely with the heat pad I currently have so I'll probably be fine without a lamp. Also, is there any surefire way to tell the difference between a P. imperator and an H. spinifer without taking it to an expert? Now that I take a closer look at the picture on wikipedia, he does kind of look like a heterometrus.


Heterometrus have smooth, shiny claws. Pandinus sp. have bumpy, slightly hairy claws.


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