# Is This an Avicularia Avicularia or a Avicularia Metallica?



## Coaster (Nov 30, 2010)




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## Poxicator (Nov 30, 2010)

Could be the flash, but I don't think its either. I thought about your last thread and I think I suggested my suspicions. I'd consider A. sp. kwitara over the 2 you've mentioned.


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## Coaster (Nov 30, 2010)

Poxicator said:


> Could be the flash, but I don't think its either. I thought about your last thread and I think I suggested my suspicions. I'd consider A. sp. kwitara over the 2 you've mentioned.


Those seem to be much darker, it has a black abdomen and mine has an orangeish reddish one.

What phenotypes differentiate an A. Avic from an A. Metallica? Arn't they supposed to be different prices?


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## skinheaddave (Nov 30, 2010)

*Admin note*

I've deleted the stupid responses in this thread.  It is a legitimate question.  Feel free to provide legitimate answers.  Do NOT feel free to continue this nonsense.

Cheers,
Dave


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## jebbewocky (Nov 30, 2010)

I'm thinking neither as well.
Beyond that--dunno.
Honestly, this is part of why I don't plan on any more _Avicularia_.


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## curiousme (Nov 30, 2010)

It just looks too pink to me to be an _A. metallica_ and not blue enough for an _A. avicularia_.  It's not the other two _Avicularia_ species we have either, so I am no help other than possibly eliminating both of your possibilities.


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## dannyboypede (Nov 30, 2010)

Honestly, I have no idea. Knowing the genus, it could be a hybrid of some sort. In which case we could sit here all day trying to figure it out and not get anywhere. To me, it looks a bit like an Avic. avic. The carapace seems too dark, however, and the abdomen lacks the reddish setae. The toes look too pink for A. metallica, yet the setae seem right...maybe...each picture looks different.

Like I said, it could be a hybrid.

--Dan


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## curiousme (Nov 30, 2010)

dannyboypede said:


> Like I said, it could be a hybrid.
> 
> --Dan


The _Avicularia_ genus is a mess to begin with, so photo identification is guessing at best.


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## jebbewocky (Nov 30, 2010)

curiousme said:


> The _Avicularia_ genus is a mess to begin with, so photo identification is guessing at best.


Yep.  Best we can tell you is, it's a pretty spider, probably genus _Avicularia_, species unknown.


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## Coaster (Nov 30, 2010)

Okay well thanks for you help. My next question is what species should I use to breed with my female Avicularia _______. Is it true that if I don't mate it with the exact same species, just some other Avic then its offspring will be infertile?


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## Salamanderhead (Nov 30, 2010)

You mate them with the exact same species. It sounds to me like you got mixed up with people saying, "don't breed them if they're from the same eggsac"
 Ex. brother/ sister.

 If you don't know what the species is, you probably shouldn't breed them.  It just makes a mess of the genus. When someone tries to buy a real A.avic they could be getting an A.avic/ metallica/ versicolor crossbreed and never know it.
 This is as far as I know, the main reason cross breeding is frowned upon.


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## Coaster (Nov 30, 2010)

Why is misidentification such a big deal? I'm not going to be selling them so do you think its ok to just breed her with any Avic?


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## xhexdx (Nov 30, 2010)

If you read the post above yours, your question is answered.



Salamanderhead said:


> It sounds to me like you got mixed up with people saying, "don't breed them if they're from the same eggsac"
> Ex. brother/ sister.


This is actually a misconception as well - it's ok to breed siblings.


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## Chris_Skeleton (Nov 30, 2010)

Coaster said:


> Why is misidentification such a big deal? I'm not going to be selling them so do you think its ok to just breed her with any Avic?


Maybe because if I want to buy an A. metallica, I don't want to get a A. avic/metallica cross.


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## Coaster (Nov 30, 2010)

Even if I'm not selling it you still think crossbreeding is a bad idea?


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## Salamanderhead (Nov 30, 2010)

What are you going to do with all the slings if you aren't selling them? If you don't keep them then they will end up with other collectors. Chances are at that number, even one will be bred. Then the genus is even more messed because those slings won't be pure.


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## xhexdx (Nov 30, 2010)

Coaster said:


> Even if I'm not selling it you still think crossbreeding is a bad idea?


Yes.  Troll.


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## Coaster (Nov 30, 2010)

Yeah true I guess I would have too many, ok but lets say I did sell these hybrids. What is so bad about that? What if you tried to buy an Avic Avic and wound up with a hybrid, what does that change besides some codons?


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## Chris_Skeleton (Nov 30, 2010)

Salamanderhead said:


> What are you going to do with all the slings if you aren't selling them? If you don't keep them then they will end up with other collectors. Chances are at that number, even one with be bred. Then the genus is even more messed because those slings won't be pure.


Additionally, with your lack of experience, breeding is a bad idea right now period. That is a lot slings you will have to house and feed and water. It would be a lot of work no doubt and one who is brand new to this shouldnt even attempt it.

And if you ever decided to get out of the hobby, what would you do with all the hybrid slings?


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## AmbushArachnids (Nov 30, 2010)

Coaster said:


> Yeah true I guess I would have too many, ok but lets say I did sell these hybrids. What is so bad about that? What if you tried to buy an Avic Avic and wound up with a hybrid, what does that change besides some codons?


If i bought a hybrid thinking it was something else i would not be happy. How would you like to buy a pure bred dog and find out its a mutt? Same thing. Or if you found out your collectors car was a fake from japan?


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## NikiP (Nov 30, 2010)

Tarantulas aren't like dogs & cats.

When was the last time we discovered a new species or dog/cat? (Not breed, I mean like a lion vs. a tiger, a wolf vs. a fox.)

When was the last time we discovered a new species of tarantula? Probably a whole heck of a lot more recently. People are trying to correctly ID any possible new species & make sure we have correct IDs on the ones currently in existence. There is way to much work to be done before making "designer" breeds of tarantulas.


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## AmbushArachnids (Nov 30, 2010)

NikiP said:


> Tarantulas aren't like dogs & cats.
> 
> When was the last time we discovered a new species or dog/cat? (Not breed, I mean like a lion vs. a tiger, a wolf vs. a fox.)
> 
> When was the last time we discovered a new species of tarantula? Probably a whole heck of a lot more recently. People are trying to correctly ID any possible new species & make sure we have correct IDs on the ones currently in existence. There is way to much work to be done before making "designer" breeds of tarantulas.


Well said. +1


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## seezilla (Nov 30, 2010)

Ok Coaster, here's the deal. I'm still a newb and while everyone has the right to act any way they please (to a certain extent), maybe learning some forum manners could help you get your questions answered with less anger and sarcasm. 

I think it's been stated SEVERAL times by several people in several ways why cross-breeding Ts is frowned upon. No, there is no law against it, but it's frowned upon. Why? Because you're still new to the Hobby. Who's to say you (personally you) won't lose interest in 6 months. Suddenly you have a whole load of slings that are not A. metallica and not A. whatever you want to xbreed. Are you going to keep a bunch slings you're no longer interested in taking care of? I somehow doubt it. These slings get out into the hobby, sold as A. metallica. So now someone who has one of these slings wants to breed as well. They think they have a purebred A. metallica and they don't. If you cannot see why this is bad, then I don't honestly know what to say to you anymore.

I honestly think you're a troll. I've been around the internet long enough to spot one. And you are one of the better trolls, too. That does not make you cool though. It just makes you a troll. I am going to be nice regardless of that because I respect this community. You remind me of Dawgpoundsound, who I know runs around youtube badmouthing these forums. Do I care? No. But when people (or a person) start coming here and harassing the hobbyists who have been nothing but awesome and supportive to me, then I get a little irritated. Why? Because the more these awesome people get harassed, the less likely they are to help the next newb who comes along genuinely looking for advice. And I would hate that to happen to someone and their spider. (yes, I did say someone please think of the spiders... LOL) So, if you are a troll, be a nice one and go away. Beat your chest elsewhere, have your trolling buddies pat you on the back and move on. If you're not, then please LEARN TO USE THE INTERNET. Stop hanging out at 4chan and /b/ and stop generally trying to stir the pot (BTW I am also pro-pot, but you are making the rest of us look bad, so stop being on my side, mmkay?) just for the sake of causing drama. You don't win the internets, you are not awesome and I'm still of the mind your HED is pastede on yayz.


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## jebbewocky (Nov 30, 2010)

Coaster said:


> Yeah true I guess I would have too many, ok but lets say I did sell these hybrids. What is so bad about that? What if you tried to buy an Avic Avic and wound up with a hybrid, what does that change besides some codons?


Um, if I bought from you-- the fact that I wanted an Avicularia avicularia, and didn't get one?  The fact that you'd be muddying up an already muddied genus, making identification even more difficult?  Or, heck, you sell something that's a hybrid, or potentially a hybrid, to someone else who is a breeder, and doesn't know it's a hybrid--and then they breed a hybrid T with something, and then I buy something from them--and it's a hybrid.  Ad nauseam.

Now--personally, you want to hybridize your own T's, for your benefit/curiosity, that's your bag man.  Your collection, not my problem.  Talkenlate04 cross-bred some B.vagans and B.albopilosum in what was IMO a responsible manner, but Ryan gives me a vibe that he's a responsible dude.  You don't.  Not yet at any rate.


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## Arachnopets (Dec 1, 2010)

*Admin note*

@ Coaster: 

Honestly, stop trolling and run a search. There are WAY too many threads on this topic and you have not added anything new at all in your questions. Therefore it does not warrant it's own thread.

Buh Bye.

Debby


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