# Timberline topsoil



## Chris11 (Jan 1, 2016)

Hey everyone, im wondering if anyone who uses Timberline bagged topsoil (or another bramd of topsoil) and ever come across a lot of sticks, rocks and wood chips in it? I opened it to make some enclosures and was stunned.... im afraid that some might be coniferous. Would it be alright just to strain out the big stuff?


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## Tomoran (Jan 1, 2016)

They don't sell the Timberline where I live (I believe that might be the soil Poec54 uses?), but I do occasionally get a "bad" bag of the stuff I use (Earthgro or Gardenpro) with lots of sticks and chunks. I just strain out the big stuff before I put it in the enclosures.

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## Poec54 (Jan 1, 2016)

That's the only thing I use for all my tarantulas.  There's a little bit of small twigs here and there and an occasional small stone, which all part of it being a natural medium.  It's never been a problem for me and I've used dozens of bags over the years.  There's nothing else I'd rather use.

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## Chris11 (Jan 1, 2016)

Thanks guys! I was worried that some of the chips might be harmful in this bag, which has an extreme abundance of rocks and sticks... ill just screen it a bit.

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## pyro fiend (Jan 1, 2016)

Iv been using this recently as well, i like the mix better then my other local top soils.. Perfect amount of clay, sand and dirt for me.. Rest around here have too much sand or are half twigs...

Personaly i just leave it be unless the sticks sharp, and if i find big clay chunks i may take out or just chop up and distribute them throughout cage

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## Bugmom (Jan 1, 2016)

I've never used it. It has pretty bad reviews on Home Depot's website. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Timberline-1-cu-ft-Top-Soil-50051562/204515238

I will add that I've used cheap top soil and the expensive stuff, and even with the expensive stuff, it can be hit or miss. 

I get all my supplies now from an indoor gardening supply center. The staff is able to help me ensure that whatever I'm getting is going to be safe for whichever critter is using it.

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## Chris11 (Jan 1, 2016)

Bugmom said:


> I've never used it. It has pretty bad reviews on Home Depot's website. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Timberline-1-cu-ft-Top-Soil-50051562/204515238
> 
> I will add that I've used cheap top soil and the expensive stuff, and even with the expensive stuff, it can be hit or miss.
> 
> I get all my supplies now from an indoor gardening supply center. The staff is able to help me ensure that whatever I'm getting is going to be safe for whichever critter is using it.


Damn, worse than i thought! Maybe it just depends on the area you live and thats what you get? Im gonna try ace next time but for now i just got through baking it for an hour after it was sifted and adding a bit of water to it and its actually preety good dirt... just a lot of work for alleged "topsoil." Thanks!

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## Bugmom (Jan 1, 2016)

I just like my dirt to be very... dirty lol. 

Maybe location has something to do with it. Dunno. Does seem to be either hated or loved so maybe you're on to something.

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## Chris11 (Jan 1, 2016)

I honestly love the stuff but ive never opened up a bag like this... ive only used a quarter of it and ive found about 20-30 rocks, and literally half of it is little twigs with some bigger pieces... unnacceptable to me.

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## cold blood (Jan 1, 2016)

Bugmom said:


> I've never used it. It has pretty bad reviews on Home Depot's website. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Timberline-1-cu-ft-Top-Soil-50051562/204515238
> 
> I will add that I've used cheap top soil and the expensive stuff, and even with the expensive stuff, it can be hit or miss.
> 
> I get all my supplies now from an indoor gardening supply center. The staff is able to help me ensure that whatever I'm getting is going to be safe for whichever critter is using it.


No offense, but that made me laugh...those reviews would matter IF we were on a gardening or landscaping forum.  Here on AB, those reviews are basically irrelevant.

The expensive stuff has additives (fertilizers and often pesticides) which boost the price.   For ts, you want no additives, hence buying the cheap stuff.

Chris, DO NOT bake it, there's no reason to sterilize soil, in fact doing so will set you up for problems.  Here's a bit from arachnologist Sam Marshall explaining exactly why:

"You have little reason to sterilize the soil because the second the soil is exposed to the air , it begins to get colonized by all the things you were trying to kill such as mold spores and mites.  Gardners might want their potting soil sterilized to kill weed seeds, and this is not a worry for tarantula keepers....if you have freshly sterilized soil, the first things to colonize will take over as they have it all to themselves.  For instance, the worst fungal growth I ever had has been in cages I lined with sterilized [substrate].   In these cages, I had white, wooly looking mats of fungus growing all over the substrate.   Other cages that had the same, but unsterilized, substrate had no such fungal growth."

------

At my home depot its suggested use is filling holes around driveways and such....its filler, not designed or sold for avid gardeners.

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## BobBarley (Jan 1, 2016)

I use a topsoil sold at Ace Hardware.  

This is what it looks like:












Topsoil



__ BobBarley
__ Dec 7, 2015





Pretty much normal dirt, lol.

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## Bugmom (Jan 1, 2016)

BobBarley said:


> I use a topsoil sold at Ace Hardware.
> 
> This is what it looks like:
> 
> ...


This is what I expect top soil to look like.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Chris11 (Jan 1, 2016)

cold blood said:


> No offense, but that made me laugh...those reviews would matter IF we were on a gardening or landscaping forum.  Here on AB, those reviews are basically irrelevant.
> 
> The expensive stuff has additives (fertilizers and often pesticides) which boost the price.   For ts, you want no additives, hence buying the cheap stuff.
> 
> ...


Is there a way to unsterilize soil???? 
And the fact we arent gardening did cross my mind but i HAD to sift this stuff... just too many hard and sharp things. Ive never baked before but i used Timberline, peat and vermiculite in my Stirmi enclosure and had a few mushrooms pop up but its under control now...

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## cold blood (Jan 1, 2016)

I generally do need to pick through some chunks, and some bags certainly are worse than others, so if you got a bad bag, don't just throw up your hands and give up.

Unsterilize?    Leave it outside I guess?

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## Chris11 (Jan 1, 2016)

cold blood said:


> Unsterilize?    Leave it outside I guess?


I shoulda mentioned that was a joke 
i already tossed it in the yard lol


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## cold blood (Jan 1, 2016)

Chris11 said:


> I shoulda mentioned that was a joke


yeah, I got it


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## Chris11 (Jan 1, 2016)

Youre so cold.... always a step ahead of me...

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## pyro fiend (Jan 1, 2016)

BobBarley said:


> I use a topsoil sold at Ace Hardware.
> 
> This is what it looks like:
> 
> ...


Are you sure the bag said top soil? If you look at your soil (i zoomed to see) this has slow release fert pellets.. Which arnt good for Ts..  Im fairly sure i also see food pellets but cant be 100% on those.. But the balls that are clearish and yellowish are ferts and crush easily between your fingers so if your t was to puncture them with fangs or crush them they will get a 'face' full of ferts... These are in most if not all brands of POTTING soil which is why alot of people like poec will only use topsoil that cost under $2 per 50lb ment to fill in holes, not ment to grow someone a pretty flower

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## BobBarley (Jan 1, 2016)

pyro fiend said:


> Are you sure the bag said top soil? If you look at your soil (i zoomed to see) this has slow release fert pellets.. Which arnt good for Ts..  Im fairly sure i also see food pellets but cant be 100% on those.. But balls that are clearish and yellowish are ferts and crush easily between your fingers so if your t was to puncture them with fangs or crush them they will get a 'face' full of ferts... These are in most if not all brands of POTTING soil which is why alot of people like poec will only use topsoil that cost ubder $2 per 50lb ment to fill in holes, not ment to grow someone a pretty flower


The package did say top soil...  On the back, the ingredients state "Sandy Loam Topsoil" and "Sawdust".  If there are fert pellets I may be in trouble...  I haven't quite moved every t to it yet, only my vinegaroon (M. giganteus) and she is underground.


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## pyro fiend (Jan 1, 2016)

BobBarley said:


> The package did say top soil...  On the back, the ingredients state "Sandy Loam Topsoil" and "Sawdust".  If there are fert pellets I may be in trouble...  I haven't quite moved every t to it yet, only my vinegaroon (M. giganteus) and she is underground.


Those are def 100% fert balls just google slow release fertilizer pellets we just bought some for my grandpas garden a month or so ago (winter sale lol). They come in a few dif colors but clear balls are the most common, iv found them in small bags of dirt at local hardwear and garden centers labeled as organic, authentic and plain soil....which is why i, like poec, will now only buy 50lb sacks lol....Also adding sawdust doesnt sound so wise imo as thats like trying to compost the crud in it

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## BobBarley (Jan 1, 2016)

Uh oh, do you think I should dig up my M. giganteus to check if she's alright?


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## BobBarley (Jan 1, 2016)

Lol oops nvm this post, I wish I could delete it.


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## pyro fiend (Jan 1, 2016)

BobBarley said:


> Uh oh, do you think I should dig up my M. giganteus to check if she's alright?


They are SLOW release, so if foods still being eaten, im sure she should be okay atm. but i personally wouldnt keep her in there too long, even if shes the lazy invert who only uses predug holes.. But thats my two cents some might think otherwise.. I made a similar mistake when i had a few Ts and when somone pointed out that the ferts are bad for Ts i made a beeline for cocofiber at my local petstore (way back when i swore only by coco)... But others claimed in pms theirs where okay till needed rehouses, but i didnt want to take any chances

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## BobBarley (Jan 1, 2016)

She dug A LOT (and that means grabbing the sub with her claws and putting it outside her burrow) before sealing herself into her burrow and I'm fairly sure she would've gotten a "face full of ferts" by now.  She has been sealed off for about 2 months, maybe more.  To say I'm worried would be an understatement but I'm fairly paranoid with my collection.

BTW, op, I guess this is why you should be careful with topsoil...


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## pyro fiend (Jan 2, 2016)

BobBarley said:


> She dug A LOT (and that means grabbing the sub with her claws and putting it outside her burrow) before sealing herself into her burrow and I'm fairly sure she would've gotten a "face full of ferts" by now.  She has been sealed off for about 2 months, maybe more.  To say I'm worried would be an understatement but I'm fairly paranoid with my collection.
> 
> BTW, op, I guess this is why you should be careful with topsoil...


Needing to be carefull indeed lol.. I personaly have spent at least $100 trying to find the right one as i never wanted to buy a giant sack when i only had a few delis.. On the bright side my plants are happy and my yard is now level -.-

Personaly id of at least unsealed the burrow and tried to look in on her by the time iv replied  lol, but everyone has their own oppinion.. 2Months is a bit of time to have a face full of chemicals to something so sensitive to chems

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## BobBarley (Jan 2, 2016)

Alright, will do, she sealed her burrow and made a chamber somewhere in the sub, not on the bottom or on the sides... I'll update when I find her.  I'll hopefully pick up some Timberline topsoil tomorrow.


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## pyro fiend (Jan 2, 2016)

BobBarley said:


> Alright, will do, she sealed her burrow and made a chamber somewhere in the sub, not on the bottom or on the sides... I'll update when I find her.  I'll hopefully pick up some Timberline topsoil tomorrow.


Godspeed. Hope you get a good bag as well ^.^

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## BobBarley (Jan 2, 2016)

pyro fiend said:


> Godspeed. Hope you get a good bag as well ^.^


Found her!  She's alive!  Sadly, it doesn't seem like she molted so she'll have to make ANOTHER sealed off burrow in her next sub...  Glad she's alright though!

Edit: Her tail seems to be a bit shorter so I must've accidently broken part of it.   Other than that, she seems OK.

I'm keeping her on a thin layer (I have no more) of cocofiber for the night. 'sigh' If only I knew lol!


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## Chris11 (Jan 2, 2016)

If anyone finds a substrate they like but it has perlite in it its totally fine, harmless to spiders. Just thought id put that out there sonce were talkin' 'strates!

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## Bugmom (Jan 2, 2016)

Frankly, this is why I stick with coco fiber or vermiculite. So much less chance of additives. Only the salamander gets actual dirt. 

I tried hard to find soil that didn't have any additives when I was gardening (trying to be organic) and it was incredibly frustrating. It was either so full of sticks and rocks that it was nearly impossible to use for actual gardening, or it had something added to it.

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## BobBarley (Jan 2, 2016)

Alright, so I went to the local Home Depot because their website said they had Timberline topsoil in-store.  Well there wasnt't any  .  They only had Earthgro topsoil.  So I figured, why not.  The employee also said that there were no fertilizers/additives in it. 

 The ingredients say "This product is regionally formulated from organic and inorganic materials including one or more of the following: peat, forest products, compost, ash, sand or native topsoil."

I can't get the picture to cooperate so it's staying above the words.  How does this look and thanks for all the help everyone!!

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## cold blood (Jan 2, 2016)

@BobBarley, the kind the store will have is regional.   My store sells Earthgro, its all I use for all my ts.   You got the right stuff there.

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## BobBarley (Jan 2, 2016)

cold blood said:


> @BobBarley, the kind the store will have is regional.   My store sells Earthgro, its all I use for all my ts.   You got the right stuff there.


Thanks Cold Blood!!

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## pyro fiend (Jan 2, 2016)

my stores around here sell both timberline and ecogro [dif stores tho], both bags of ecogrow i got had a TON of sand and not much dirt, so i personaly go with timberline now... but i can tell from your pic this is *much better*, i can see sand, dirt, i think i see a few twigs, some roots and possibly some leaves as well as what looks like a nice big chunk of redish brown clay  A+ not too shabby .


@Chris11 , as per perilite yes its okay but "sense where taking 'strates" id like to mention if somone gets the idea to add perilite to their current mixture some of them do have weed killing herbicides, insecticide and etc so it is wise to read every "ingredient", and ofcourse like with soil the more it costs the more likely it is to have something in it... i have used perilite as both a bottom layer for tropicals and as a mxture for scorps, and the only one around here iv personaly found is a local "hippy" nursery and its hard for them to get it in,but its like 10galons for 3bucks  [ofcourse the granular size makes the weight different] and has zero additives but around here, every single bag iv found has some kind of killer-cide   however again thats just around here with my trial and errors [again over 100bucks for nothing lol] iv found if it has perilite in it[soil], it usualy have those ferts. but thats just around here, it may be different else-where

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## Bugmom (Jan 2, 2016)

pyro fiend said:


> @Chris11 , as per perilite yes its okay but "sense where taking 'strates" id like to mention if somone gets the idea to add perilite to their current mixture some of them do have weed killing herbicides, insecticide and etc so it is wise to read every "ingredient", and ofcourse like with soil the more it costs the more likely it is to have something in it... i have used perilite as both a bottom layer for tropicals and as a mxture for scorps, and the only one around here iv personaly found is a local "hippy" nursery and its hard for them to get it in,but its like 10galons for 3bucks  [ofcourse the granular size makes the weight different] and has zero additives but around here, every single bag iv found has some kind of killer-cide   however again thats just around here with my trial and errors [again over 100bucks for nothing lol] iv found if it has perilite in it[soil], it usualy have those ferts. but thats just around here, it may be different else-where


Friends of mine were buying the same brand of vermiculite for years, and then suddenly the formula changed to include Miracle Gro with barely any change to the packaging/labeling (first glance it didn't look any different) and sadly, everything incubated in that vermic was lost. Nothing developed. 

So good warning pyro - always check your ingredients and labels on EVERY bag! 

I was buying my vermiculite at Ace Hardware but since I discovered the indoor gardening supply store, I get it from them. It's larger and coarser and I like it a lot more. The tarantulas seem to be able to make burrows with it, which they had trouble doing with the finer sand-sized vermiculite I was using. My P. irminia slings are loving it, as is my P. fasciata juvies.

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## Chris11 (Jan 2, 2016)

Bugmom said:


> Friends of mine were buying the same brand of vermiculite for years, and then suddenly the formula changed to include Miracle Gro with barely any change to the packaging/labeling (first glance it didn't look any different) and sadly, everything incubated in that vermic was lost. Nothing developed.
> 
> So good warning pyro - always check your ingredients and labels on EVERY bag!
> 
> I was buying my vermiculite at Ace Hardware but since I discovered the indoor gardening supply store, I get it from them. It's larger and coarser and I like it a lot more. The tarantulas seem to be able to make burrows with it, which they had trouble doing with the finer sand-sized vermiculite I was using. My P. irminia slings are loving it, as is my P. fasciata juvies.


The key ive found is getting vermic labeled as 'horticultural vermiculite,' its should be pure. And thanks, pyro, for the clarification. I figured by now anyone who would read this would read the ingredients anyways!

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## pyro fiend (Jan 3, 2016)

Bugmom said:


> Friends of mine were buying the same brand of vermiculite for years, and then suddenly the formula changed to include Miracle Gro with barely any change to the packaging/labeling (first glance it didn't look any different) and sadly, everything incubated in that vermic was lost. Nothing developed.
> 
> So good warning pyro - always check your ingredients and labels on EVERY bag!
> 
> I was buying my vermiculite at Ace Hardware but since I discovered the indoor gardening supply store, I get it from them. It's larger and coarser and I like it a lot more. The tarantulas seem to be able to make burrows with it, which they had trouble doing with the finer sand-sized vermiculite I was using. My P. irminia slings are loving it, as is my P. fasciata juvies.



no problem i also found that one out the hard way lmao bought like 20lbs worth of vermic and perlite some for plants some for T's then i look after i bought it.. every one had to be used for plants -.- i was pretty mad.. took me about 5months and hours of standing there reading at every single store till i found my "hippy store"

some say if you leave vermic or perlite out in the elements the cides will wear of fin 6-8 months but we realy cant tell and id rather not loose a T because i was too lazy to check the ingredients




Chris11 said:


> The key ive found is getting vermic labeled as 'horticultural vermiculite,' its should be pure. And thanks, pyro, for the clarification. I figured by now anyone who would read this would read the ingredients anyways!


hey we can hope.. but not everyone is going to read this back and forth lmao.. plus theres always that one person lol tho perlite and vermic seem pretty strait forward they ofcourse are not when you get them from a garden center lol

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## BobBarley (Jan 5, 2016)

I'm sorry to revive this relatively old thread but I feel obliged to update on the Earthgro topsoil.  
It has developed mold.  I'd imagine its from the things in the sub?  Only a little but it will most likely spread.  The M. giganteus has already burrowed into the substrate and I have no idea how she is doing.  Is there a way to eradicate the mold without throwing out all of the sub?  Perhaps I could let it sit under a heat lamp for a bit?  Perhaps some exposure to sunlight?


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## Chris11 (Jan 6, 2016)

Just invrease ventilation if possible, keep it more dry, and be exta vigilant with boluses and dead prey items.

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## cold blood (Jan 6, 2016)

Bob just dry it out.   I've been using earthgro for years and have yet to have a single mold issue with it....the issue most likely lies with a little too much moisture and not quite enough ventilation as chris mentioned.

My area stores stop stocking soil for the winter, and this past week I have been scrambling as I have several ts that I need to re-house this week.   I won't pay through the nose for coco fiber, but I came across an alternative that I hadn't tried, but have heard others using happily.   I found a big bag of peat moss, its basically just peat and sphagnum moss, although it looks like a cross between soil and coco fiber.   I like the way it looks and in the future I could possibly mix it with the earthgro soil.


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## BobBarley (Jan 6, 2016)

cold blood said:


> Bob just dry it out.   I've been using earthgro for years and have yet to have a single mold issue with it....the issue most likely lies with a little too much moisture and not quite enough ventilation as chris mentioned.
> 
> My area stores stop stocking soil for the winter, and this past week I have been scrambling as I have several ts that I need to re-house this week.   I won't pay through the nose for coco fiber, but I came across an alternative that I hadn't tried, but have heard others using happily.   I found a big bag of peat moss, its basically just peat and sphagnum moss, although it looks like a cross between soil and coco fiber.   I like the way it looks and in the future I will likely mix it with the earthgro soil.





Chris11 said:


> Just invrease ventilation if possible, keep it more dry, and be exta vigilant with boluses and dead prey items.


Alright, thanks I guess I overreacted lol.  I've already increased ventilation so she should be fine soon.  Thanks guys, sorry for the trouble!


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## Bugmom (Jan 6, 2016)

cold blood said:


> Bob just dry it out.   I've been using earthgro for years and have yet to have a single mold issue with it....the issue most likely lies with a little too much moisture and not quite enough ventilation as chris mentioned.
> 
> My area stores stop stocking soil for the winter, and this past week I have been scrambling as I have several ts that I need to re-house this week.   I won't pay through the nose for coco fiber, but I came across an alternative that I hadn't tried, but have heard others using happily.   I found a big bag of peat moss, its basically just peat and sphagnum moss, although it looks like a cross between soil and coco fiber.   I like the way it looks and in the future I will likely mix it with the earthgro soil.


My only beef with peat moss (aside from the whole dustiness issue) is that water doesn't want to drain into it once it dries out; just sits on the surface, like a damn pond. I bought one bag to mix in with some other soil & vermiculite that I'd bought for potted plants, and it took soooo long for any water to drain down into the soil. IIRC, the plants either died, or I repotted them without any peat moss. Obviously we're talking enclosures, not plants, but the water issue would still be an issue. Not making the T's a swimming pool lol.

I don't really understand how anyone likes the stuff. Maybe it's just user error on my part  but I think I'll stick with a mixture of pure coarse coco fiber (~1.7 cu ft for $27 where I buy it, not a bad price and no damn bricks to soak) and vermiculite.

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## pyro fiend (Jan 6, 2016)

Bugmom said:


> My only beef with peat moss (aside from the whole dustiness issue) is that water doesn't want to drain into it once it dries out; just sits on the surface, like a damn pond. I bought one bag to mix in with some other soil & vermiculite that I'd bought for potted plants, and it took soooo long for any water to drain down into the soil. IIRC, the plants either died, or I repotted them without any peat moss. Obviously we're talking enclosures, not plants, but the water issue would still be an issue. Not making the T's a swimming pool lol.
> 
> I don't really understand how anyone likes the stuff. Maybe it's just user error on my part  but I think I'll stick with a mixture of pure coarse coco fiber (~1.7 cu ft for $27 where I buy it, not a bad price and no damn bricks to soak) and vermiculite.


I can say iv had the same issue with that i mixed mine up with some coco once, which we all knows sucks up moisture like noones buisness.. But when id let it dry out in between waterings for my tropicals.., for ine itd shrink in size, coco will a little two but not as much.. I hated that.. But Id add a cup or two of water and id have a floating island for about 3 hrs before thw coco overpowered the moss (the moss in its raw form is a beuty tho)

Ps on coco if you want more bulk coco and can use a block and have ~20 gallons on hand id recomend kempf cior pitch block.. Little salty for plants, so may wana drain it once or twice for Ts like i did buy a 11lb block costs like $14.60 on amazon (last week was anyways when we ordered more of it for buddies incoming snakes)

Back to timberline.. Do you have a menards around there @cold blood ? Iv found my local lowes and home depot get rid of alot of their dirt in the winter but here, menards has dirt 365 and of multiple types (gardening, potting, top,) as well as manure if you need that kinda oop: for something in the snow lol

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## cold blood (Jan 6, 2016)

@pyro, yeah, after home depot ran out, Menards was the very next place, followed by the Lowe's next door.    I got the last bag of cheap soil they had, although it wasn't a brand I was familiar with....that's gone, which is why I resorted to the peat moss.


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## pyro fiend (Jan 6, 2016)

cold blood said:


> @pyro, yeah, after home depot ran out, Menards was the very next place, followed by the Lowe's next door.    I got the last bag of cheap soil they had, although it wasn't a brand I was familiar with....that's gone, which is why I resorted to the peat moss.


awe man what luck.. Mine keeps it 24/7 like paving stones.. Ours is the only place youl see ice 'salt' in july ... Ig so long as ur happy, and you read the label you should be ok old man  lol

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