# Scolopendra heros arizonensis



## JDeRosa (Feb 6, 2009)

I have a Malaysian Cherry Red and was thinking of getting a beautiful Scolopendra heros arizonensis with yellow coloring. I need to know if since they are from the US, are they less venomous/aggressive and more able to be handled than a Cherry Red.


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## EightLeggedFrea (Feb 6, 2009)

All centipedes are "aggressive" to at least some extent. I've heard all of the heros subspecies are specially so, but aren't nearly as venomous as subspinipes ssp. Still, not that any 'pede bite would be fun.

Good luck finding an arizonensis on the market. Their not very common.


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## krabbelspinne (Feb 6, 2009)

Also it is said, that Sc. heros has some kind of poison on the walking legs, so that if it walks on your hand, the skin will show some kind of reaction (redness, swelling). So maybe not the best choice in centipede to handle...

(source: Lewis, the biology of centipedes)


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## Draiman (Feb 6, 2009)

krabbelspinne said:


> Also it is said, that Sc. heros has some kind of poison on the walking legs, so that if it walks on your hand, the skin will show some kind of reaction (redness, swelling). So maybe not the best choice in centipede to handle...
> 
> (source: Lewis, the biology of centipedes)


This is interesting. Does it only apply to _Sc. heros_? I think I remember reading somewhere that most scolopendromorph centipedes secrete some substance from their walking legs. In fact, I myself have experienced redness and itchiness on a couple of occasions after handling my _Sc. subspinipes mutilans_. I remember it was when I had two centipedes on the same arm at the same time, and both were very spooked. I believe that caused the irritating secretions, because I've handled the same species over a hundred times already and I only got a skin reaction two or three times.


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## krabbelspinne (Feb 6, 2009)

I am not in it right now, but I think I can remember that in Lewis` book he quote someone who asserted this with Sc. heros but Lewis himself couldn`t prove it.


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## Galapoheros (Feb 6, 2009)

krabbelspinne said:


> Also it is said, that Sc. heros has some kind of poison on the walking legs, so that if it walks on your hand, the skin will show some kind of reaction (redness, swelling). So maybe not the best choice in centipede to handle...
> 
> (source: Lewis, the biology of centipedes)



Is that still floating around?  I remember hearing that in the mid eighties,  pretty sure it's been debunked.  I used to pick heros pedes up but stopped after a nasty bite.  I never did have symptoms from pede feet though.  I think that most of the color forms of Sc. heros pedes are not rare in the wild.  People are rare where heros heros and arizonensis are, and not so much the pedes.  So there aren't many people to pick them up for the hobby.  Sc. heros castaneiceps is more common in the hobby because more people are found where they are found.  Also, in the desert, they are around dry tributaries and rivers that are usually dry with big boulders scattered around, instead of flat rocks to look under.  Those bolder are just too big to look under but they are there.  I have some arizonensis right now and they are pretty feisty.


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## Galapoheros (Feb 6, 2009)

Ha, we all almost posted at the same time.  The only possibilities I've heard of for some irritation from pede feet is maybe bacteria and those feet are sharp so the feet might penetrate the skin more than we think.


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## Draiman (Feb 6, 2009)

Galapoheros said:


> Ha, we all almost posted at the same time.  The only possibilities I've heard of for some irritation from pede feet is maybe bacteria and those feet are sharp so the feet might penetrate the skin more than we think.


Quite possibly. But what about the fact that I only experienced irritation when my pedes were spooked?


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## SAn (Feb 6, 2009)

galapoheros theory has the highest possibilities..

Phark, scared pedes, became more agile, etc, so they probably used more pressure to get a hold on your skin, thus penetrated with the sharp leg edges.


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## Draiman (Feb 6, 2009)

SAn said:


> Phark, scared pedes, became more agile, etc, so they probably used more pressure to get a hold on your skin, thus penetrated with the sharp leg edges.


Makes sense.


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## Elytra and Antenna (Feb 6, 2009)

S.heros are easier to handle than a healthy S. subspinipes but you're still likely to get a good bite unless you're one of the lucky people who can handle pedes without getting bitten.




krabbelspinne said:


> Also it is said, that Sc. heros has some kind of poison on the walking legs, so that if it walks on your hand, the skin will show some kind of reaction (redness, swelling). So maybe not the best choice in centipede to handle...
> 
> (source: Lewis, the biology of centipedes)


 That's a  lousy piece of false information.


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## Draiman (Feb 6, 2009)

Elytra and Antenna said:


> S.heros are easier to handle than a healthy S. subspinipes *but you're still likely to get a good bite* unless you're one of the lucky people who can handle pedes without getting bitten.


"Likely"? That's definitely opinion. I find it very ironic:



Elytra and Antenna said:


> That's a lousy piece of false information.


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## krabbelspinne (Feb 6, 2009)

@ San:

This theory sounds interesting.

@ all:

It is just a report in "the biology of centipedes" from Lewis and - as I said before - it is not proven.


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## JDeRosa (Feb 6, 2009)

So which pede is the "rosehair" of all pedes. The one that can be handled the easiest with the least venomous bite.


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## SAn (Feb 6, 2009)

i would say ethmostigmus trigonopodus blue ring.- (assuming your not allergic to bees etc blah blah blah)


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## Elytra and Antenna (Feb 8, 2009)

Gavin said:


> "Likely"? That's definitely opinion.


 You think it's opinion that centipedes can't bite with their walking legs simply because there are no venom glands located there? Or that S.heros have an impressive bite?


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## Draiman (Feb 8, 2009)

Elytra and Antenna said:


> You think it's opinion that centipedes can't bite with their walking legs simply because there are no venom glands located there? Or that S.heros have an impressive bite?


Neither. It's this I don't agree with:

_"but you're still likely to get a good bite"_

Likely? I very rarely get bitten by my pedes while handling. How is that "likely"? Explain please.


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## cjm1991 (Feb 9, 2009)

It just depends on what your room temp is, the certain individual being handled, and if the pede feels threatened its going to bite you. I have done nothing wrong and got tagged, just depends on the pede really. S. Heros dont bite/attack/ ext.. with there terminals, thats not true.

Edit: As for a good one to handle, Id say S. Polymorpha or E.trigo blue ring leg.  My ring leg has been very aggitated lately and I only handle my pedes maybe once a month if that so I hope a molt is coming


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## Elytra and Antenna (Feb 9, 2009)

Gavin said:


> Neither. It's this I don't agree with:
> 
> _"but you're still likely to get a good bite"_
> 
> Likely? I very rarely get bitten by my pedes while handling. How is that "likely"? Explain please.


 So your saying Scolopendra species generally don't bite? Anyone follow that advice?


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## Draiman (Feb 9, 2009)

Elytra and Antenna said:


> So your saying Scolopendra species generally don't bite? Anyone follow that advice?


You may want to check your dictionary for the definition of the word _"likely"_. When you say "likely to get bitten", it means, for instance, that out of ten times a person handles his/her centipedes, he/she gets bitten six, seven or eight times. That is simply not true for centipedes in general, unless one is inept at handling or is simply unlucky.

I hope you see the difference between simply "biting" and "biting _often_".


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## Dillon (Feb 9, 2009)

No dictionary needed, Gavin.  Leave E and A alone...

Likely, probably, more than possible.  Thats all hes saying.

Ditch the mutilans and get a 9" subspinipes pede, then post handling pics.


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## Draiman (Feb 9, 2009)

Dillon said:


> No dictionary needed, Gavin.  Leave E and A alone...
> 
> Likely, probably, more than possible.  Thats all hes saying.
> 
> Ditch the mutilans and get a 9" subspinipes pede, then post handling pics.


Oh no, sorry, I don't leave particular people alone; if I don't agree with his/her opinion, I voice mine. That's me.

If you would mail me a _Sc. subspinipes_ - or any large species, for that matter - I certainly would post handling pics. Otherwise, I hope you understand that I cannot purchase any centipedes, apart from _mutilans_, legally over here.

By the way, I am serious about the mailing; I have Malayan vinegaroons (_Thelyphonus_ sp.), if you're interested in doing a trade.


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## Dillon (Feb 9, 2009)

I understand.

They're native to you.


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## SAn (Feb 9, 2009)

again a matter of luck, some people may rarely get bitten and some may get bitten every time. (and thats why they dont do it anymore).

In any case someone WILL get bitten at a point and thats neither pleasant or good. If certain people like playing with chances please do, but dont advertise that pedes are calm and nice.


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## Draiman (Feb 9, 2009)

SAn said:


> *dont advertise that pedes are calm and nice*.


Perhaps you (mis-) interpreted my posts as such, but I never said centipedes were calm and docile. I merely disagreed with E&A's opinion that centipedes are always "likely to bite", which has NOT been the case in _my_ experience.


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## SAn (Feb 9, 2009)

yeah maybe, but still if i say i fell of a cliff and didnt die(in my case i didnt ), someone else might try it right? (thats what i meant by advertise)

hehe


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## Draiman (Feb 9, 2009)

SAn said:


> yeah maybe, but still if i say i fell of a cliff and didnt die(in my case i didnt ), someone else might try it right? (thats what i meant by advertise)
> 
> hehe


Your analogy is flawed. Sane people know that jumping off a cliff is suicidal, and hence will NOT try it, no matter how much you try to "advertise" the act.


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## SAn (Feb 9, 2009)

bleh..  

find something similar then.. like rear fanged snakes, or jumping in front of trains(as many do)
a bad adv is still an ad
and please dont try to make logic arguments when it comes to handling pedes..
Kids may wanna try it


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## Draiman (Feb 9, 2009)

SAn said:


> *a bad adv is still an ad*
> and please dont try to make logic arguments when it comes to handling pedes..
> Kids may wanna try it


Once again, when and where did I "advertise" anything about handling centipedes? I expressed my opinion, which was that centipedes are NOT always "likely to bite", contrary to what E&A said. I meant that, yes, centipedes DO and CAN bite, but they are not always "likely to bite". *There is a clear distinction between being able to bite and being LIKELY to bite.* Do you understand?

Of course, if someone comes along and decides to miscontrue what I said, that is not a concern of mine, because I believe everyone has some discretion of his/her own.


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## Elytra and Antenna (Feb 9, 2009)

Gavin said:


> I expressed my opinion, which was that centipedes are NOT always "likely to bite", contrary to what E&A said.


 How can you have such a strong opinion about something you say you've never even kept? All centipedes are not identical, the topic is S. heros. You ought to preface your statement with "I've never actually kept S. heros, I've only handled a much smaller more docile type, but without experience I think..."

I don't know of anyone who handles large pedes who hasn't been bitten (including yourself with your little species) therefore if you handle them your chances of getting bitten at some point is realistically 100%.


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## Draiman (Feb 9, 2009)

Elytra and Antenna said:


> How can you have such a strong opinion about something you say you've never even kept? All centipedes are not identical, the topic is S. heros. You ought to preface your statement with "I've never actually kept S. heros, I've only handled a much smaller more docile type, but without experience I think..."
> 
> I don't know of anyone who handles large pedes who hasn't been bitten (including yourself with your little species) therefore if you handle them your chances of getting bitten at some point is realistically 100%.


I have to agree with pretty much everything here - except for the statement that _Sc. subspinipes mutilans_ is _*"a much smaller more docile type"*_. "Docile"?? Have you kept this species before? What kind of reception do you get when you open the enclosure? This is an aggressive species, no doubt. Calling it a "docile" species is laughable. Being a subspecies of _Sc. subspinipes_, it is definitely at least as aggressive, if not more, than _Sc. heros_.


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## Elytra and Antenna (Feb 9, 2009)

Gavin said:


> "Docile"?? Have you kept this species before?


 Yes, I have had a few of them. They usually don't even bite each other.


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## Draiman (Feb 9, 2009)

Elytra and Antenna said:


> Yes, I have had a few of them. They usually don't even bite each other.


I think they don't bite each other simply because they are a communal species. But they are undoubtedly nervous and aggressive. Maybe I'll put up a video to prove this.


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## Dillon (Feb 9, 2009)

Gavin said:


> it is definitely at least as aggressive, if not more, than _Sc. heros_.



Unless you own a S. Heros you can't really say that..


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## Draiman (Feb 9, 2009)

Dillon said:


> Unless you own a S. Heros you can't really say that..


True. It was simply an opinion of mine based on the fact that subspinipes centipedes are aggressive. Considering the other fact that mutilans is a subspecies of subspinipes, I would naturally expect it to be similar in temperament.


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## cjm1991 (Feb 9, 2009)

There are De Haani's out there that will tolerate you more than some S. Polymorpha's, depends on their individual temperment.


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## nissan480 (Feb 9, 2009)

cjm1991 said:


> There are De Haani's out there that will tolerate you more than some S. Polymorpha's, depends on their individual temperment.


Agreed....I have kept mutilans(two yellow and one red),and out of the three only one was aggressive/nervous.Compared to my 6 heros,they are docile.


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## Galapoheros (Feb 10, 2009)

Here's a crazy Sc h arizonensis(I need a life!).  I don't have him set up very well yet, I'll get there.  He's pretty nutty, watch.  OK, no more pede harassment.  I don't think I'll ever grow up at this point.


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## cjm1991 (Feb 10, 2009)

Galapoheros said:


> Here's a crazy Sc h arizonensis(I need a life!).  I don't have him set up very well yet, I'll get there.  He's pretty nutty, watch.  OK, no more pede harassment.  I don't think I'll ever grow up at this point.


Looks just like my Thai De Haani, she tries attacking air, anything, ext..  Thats a pretty mean looking S. Heros though, it wants a peice of your finger


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## nissan480 (Feb 10, 2009)

LMAO Todd!!Your pushing it!!!He almost had you at 11 second's.


That was too cool.....Although I dont recommend it!

Going back for my third view...I just find it funny for some reason


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## CID143ti (Feb 11, 2009)

Lol, Dude, you really are never gonna grow up.  I don't think I'm that brave to try that.  Nice pede by the way...I miss the solid colored guy V used to have.  V down to one striped left.  

W. Smith


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## Nich (Feb 11, 2009)

Gavin said:


> Neither. It's this I don't agree with:
> 
> _"but you're still likely to get a good bite"_
> 
> Likely? I very rarely get bitten by my pedes while handling. How is that "likely"? Explain please.


Your on one.... 
 Arizonensis are prone to biting. I know of 4 occurances offhand between 4 owners.....seems rational to me. Two of them are longterm members with documentaion.....;P


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## Galapoheros (Feb 11, 2009)

Live forever until you die!  "W" I hope you and V at least got a pic of that solid one.  If you did, send it to me, I want to see it.  I have one banded too.  I have 3 other az with the black heads but I think they are all males:wall: .  A little too early to tell though.  You only have one left?, I'm scared to send anything over there lol.


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## Draiman (Feb 12, 2009)

Elytra and Antenna said:


> S.heros are easier to handle than a healthy S. subspinipes but you're still likely to get a good bite unless you're one of the lucky people who can handle pedes without getting bitten.
> 
> 
> That's a  lousy piece of false information.


Hey, I just found this, not sure if it's 100% accurate though:

_"In addition to venom, some species exude defensive substances from glands found along the body segments. These secretions are usually nontoxic to humans, although at least one species of the genus Otostigmus secretes a vesicating substance."_

From: http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/769448-overview


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## CID143ti (Feb 12, 2009)

> You only have one left?, I'm scared to send anything over there lol.


  Lol, yeah, just one S.h.a.    We still have all the S.h.h.    Even the monster, we are gonna have to pair the male you sent us with her again.    She dropped some eggs just prior to IKE (I think) and she ate them.    I'm sure V has a pic somewhere of the S.h.a.  

W. Smith


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## clockworkorange (Feb 12, 2009)

Gavin said:


> Hey, I just found this, not sure if it's 100% accurate though:
> 
> _"In addition to venom, some species exude defensive substances from glands found along the body segments. These secretions are usually nontoxic to humans, although at least one species of the genus Otostigmus secretes a vesicating substance."_
> 
> From: http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/769448-overview


Hey Phark,

some species can exude Hydrogene cyanide from small glands located on most body parts (tergites/sternites/legs). This system has been described in  _Asanada_, _Pachymerium_, _Geophilus _and _Strigamia_.

Lewis (1981) didn't provide much details about it but the following paper is quite straight forward and an easy read:

Mascwitz, U., Lauschke, U. and Wurmli, M. (1979) Hydrogen cyanide-producing glands in a scolopender, Asanada N.SP. (CHILOPODA, SCOLOPENDRIDAE). Journal of Chemical Ecology. 5, 6:901-907.

Cheers

Mika


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## szappan (Feb 12, 2009)

Galapoheros said:


> Here's a crazy Sc h arizonensis(I need a life!).  I don't have him set up very well yet, I'll get there.  He's pretty nutty, watch.  OK, no more pede harassment.  I don't think I'll ever grow up at this point.


*LOL!!!*  That's crazy!  Great vid Mr. 'heros!  I'm going to have to try that with my _heros heros_ sometime... j/k  

Not to hijack the thread or anything, but I've noticed a curious behavior in my _heros_ that I've yet to observe in any other species I've kept.  When startled or agitated, it will vibrate it's terminals side to side very quickly (sort of like a rattlesnake).  Has anyone noticed that in any other species or color-morph?


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## cjm1991 (Feb 12, 2009)

szappan said:


> *LOL!!!*  That's crazy!  Great vid Mr. 'heros!  I'm going to have to try that with my _heros heros_ sometime... j/k
> 
> Not to hijack the thread or anything, but I've noticed a curious behavior in my _heros_ that I've yet to observe in any other species I've kept.  When startled or agitated, it will vibrate it's terminals side to side very quickly (sort of like a rattlesnake).  Has anyone noticed that in any other species or color-morph?


If you make a feather tail (Alipes sp.) frightened it makes a sound similar to a rattlesnake's tail with its terminals. I have a 4"er that can "rattle" pretty loud. As for venom being involved, it has done this even while I handled it with no weird effects. Also I have never had problems like that after handling any of my S. Heros varients.


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## Galapoheros (Feb 12, 2009)

Hi, yeah I think all the heros tend to do that sometimes, esp. the babies when they get startled, or when they catch some food.  I rarely see adults do that though except when they come in contact with each other.  When adults come in contact with each other (without attacking each other), one will tap on the others terminals and the other will start shaking it's terminals, it looks like some kind of communication.  If it's a male being tapped on, he will really start shaking his terminals the longer she taps on them.  Then he will start walking and she follows him.  I took a stiff out of the fridge and got one to do it a little.  I also wonder if it's a decoy to help it escape or even catch prey, who knows...


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## moose35 (Feb 12, 2009)

Galapoheros, i love how your using that "stiff"....thats the best thing i've seen in a while..it made me laugh out loud. 


   thanks

               moose


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## nissan480 (Feb 13, 2009)

Your knowledge and abilities never fail to amaze!


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## SAn (Feb 13, 2009)

does this work using other objects like a pen for example? OR objects that have been for a while in a pedes enclosure to get a scent or something?
Maybe its reflex move?


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## szappan (Feb 13, 2009)

Galapoheros said:


> I took a stiff out of the fridge and got one to do it a little.  I also wonder if it's a decoy to help it escape or even catch prey, who knows...


:clap: OMG that video is just so funny, especially the way you just brought it in from the top - I just wasn't expecting that  

I did think I was on necroboards for a second though... 

And one of these days we should do a board-wide survey as to exactly who has what in their freezer... me?  I've got an arizonensis... 


EDIT:  holy cow!  I'm just looking through your (amazing!) photobucket library and you've got an arizonesis doing that as well... with another frozen 'pede!


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