# Happy about egg capsules



## Elytra and Antenna (Jun 18, 2005)

I have an adult pair of ALBINO Narceus americanus and the female is forming egg capsules.    I'm so happy. :clap:


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## fantasticp (Jun 18, 2005)

oooo so jealous. Where did you get them? Were they WC albinos or just pop up one day in a tank that way?


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## Crunchie (Jun 18, 2005)

Sounds interesting, can we see some piccies? :clap:


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## Black Hawk (Jun 18, 2005)

that's awsome :clap:


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## Elytra and Antenna (Jun 19, 2005)

The male and female were captive produced and reared by R.Willis and I believe they may be the only ones there are. 
The female is the main pic on the millipede book cover --> 

	
	
		
		
	


	




Certainly I don't know how many will hatch or survive but I have reared normal N.americanus for more than a decade and it looks like this will probably end up in a few hundred youngsters that should all be albino.


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## jonah (Jun 19, 2005)

amazing!

you simply *must* put some pics up when they get big enough!

-j.


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## Crunchie (Jun 19, 2005)

Sounds excellent! Really wish I could get my hands on that book though


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## Milli-maniac (Jun 19, 2005)

*Awsome!!!*

Man If you have good luck with these ide more than gladly buy any youd put up fo sale i have searched for albino milli's just out of curiosituies sake so pls keep us updated. :drool:  :}  :drool:  :}  :drool:  :}  :worship:  :worship:  :worship:


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## arizona (Aug 6, 2005)

Crunchie said:
			
		

> Sounds excellent! Really wish I could get my hands on that book though


I have the book and can let you borrow it if ya want. Just pay back shipping when you send it back. I bought it from the library in Portal.


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## NiGHTS (Aug 7, 2005)

You can order the book from Orin at: http://www.angelfire.com/oh3/elytraandantenna/  I think he can do international shipping to the UK, Crunchie.  Great book, I must add.  Lots of useful info on breeding, and even a bunch of stuff about substrate that I didn't know.


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## Crunchie (Aug 7, 2005)

I managed to get the book from amazon.com finally and I like the general breeding/feeding/housing stuff but the species specific care stuff isn't much good to me as there isn't much detail about species that are more available to the UK. I think the species available to America and the UK must be different but could be wrong. 

There was a couple of wee points the book gave that I disagree with after watching my own millipedes but again that might differences in the species available. Then again I think there was a picture of egg pellets made by Tanzanian red legged millipedes and they looked nothing like the ones mine have been making. Not sure what's going on there  
Kind of wish the book was a bit bigger and with some more colour pictures in it, some of the black and white ones were difficult to make out for me who has eye trouble.


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## thedreadedone (Aug 7, 2005)

albino invertebrates !!!
i was under the impression that it was impossible


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## cacoseraph (Aug 7, 2005)

thedreadedone said:
			
		

> albino invertebrates !!!
> i was under the impression that it was impossible


this has come up before, and i was under the same impression you were ininitally. but more and more i think it is possible, depending on your definitions.

if you define albanism as the complete lack of coloration pigments, then i *think* it is possible.

one of the problems as i see it, is the coloration as we perceive it in arthropods is a result of light REFRACTING off of the cuticle and also reflecting off pigments (and maybe other mechanisms as well, i don't know).  Albanism would not affect the refraction type of coloration at all.  So the albinos, in this defintion, would still have some other elements of color to them, especially iridescent sheens and the like.


but if albino is spefically lacking the pigment melanin, in a species where it is normally present, then it would hinge on if there is melanin in normal inverts.

and that, i don't know, but i would imagine it would be fairly easy to google

this is another type of topic that should be relatively simple to resolve if careful attention is paid to definitions initially, but can spawn useless arguments and endless entanglements if not.


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## NiGHTS (Aug 7, 2005)

Hey Crunchie - just wondering on what points you differ with the book.  Its been my main source for figuring out how to keep my pedes, so if you have any differing opinions, I would love to hear   

The only thing that I don't really agree with is the amount of vegetable feeding recommended.  My pedes will eat a bit of the rotting wood and leaves, but they expect fresh vegetables and fruits to be added to the cage at least every other day, not once a week like the book says.  But then again, maybe they just don't like the variety of oak I'm offering too much.  Overfeeding definitely leads to mite outbreaks...but my pedes don't look happy if they don't have something to nibble on.  So what I've come up with is I feed them vegies every other evening, and pull out the remnants first thing in the morning, so mites don't get in the cage as quickly.


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## Elytra and Antenna (Aug 7, 2005)

thedreadedone said:
			
		

> albino invertebrates !!!
> i was under the impression that it was impossible


Most of us wondered if it was possible and apparently it is with Narceus americanus. Here's the normal coloration:

	
	
		
		
	


	




I'm thinking the albino pair should throw all albino but time will tell. If everthing goes fine I'll have a pic of a ton of 3/4" youngsters in 12 months. Narceus aren't quick and like other millipedes they are white for at least the first few molts, albino or not.


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## Farom (Aug 7, 2005)

Thats awesome Orin, ive always wondered about that millipede on the cover.  How much are you going to sell the babies for if they are albino?

  Thanks,
Andrew


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## Crunchie (Aug 8, 2005)

NiGHTS said:
			
		

> Hey Crunchie - just wondering on what points you differ with the book.  Its been my main source for figuring out how to keep my pedes, so if you have any differing opinions, I would love to hear


I will PM you about it at some point, it's been a while since I've read the book so I can't remember exactly what it was that I was seeing.


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## J Morningstar (Aug 8, 2005)

NiGHTS,
 I would recommend trying to leave smaller bits of food less often. If you ever want them to reproudce I think the food should be left to stay as long as it gets covered with substrate soon after it starts to turn. Then the baby millies that eat it from underneath for the first few months will have food. You could also accidentally throw little ones out unwittingly.
 Remember springtails and the like are harmless, just those damn, little, almost immoveable, body desacating mites really suck.


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## Elytra and Antenna (Jun 19, 2006)

I was planning an update with a photo of the babies a long, long time ago but it slipped my mind. The smallest are well over an inch. Here are some at 11 months and a quasi-normal one. Apparently this form of albinism isn't recessive since both parents are albino and approximately 1/4 are normal phenotype. The entire batch produced only 30 phenotype albinos (and 10 np) but the female appears to be going for another round.


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## Scolopendra55 (Jun 19, 2006)

WOW :drool: That sure looks albino to me!!


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## BigToach (Jun 19, 2006)

MantidAssassins said:
			
		

> I'm thinking the albino pair should throw all albino but time will tell. QUOTE]
> 
> it all depends you could get anywhere from 25% - 100% albino. and who knows with inverts, there are various color phazes, maybe youll get a purple one.haha. either way its gonna be interesting. good luck.


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## Ganoderma (Jun 20, 2006)

nice millipede!  could it have mated with another?  can millipedes have more than one father?  store sperm?  

many definitions are "A pigmentless white phenotype".  if one wants to call albino "white" then there really are very few.  even common pets like corn snakes or ball pythons are not white, just lacking black (melanin, like other defintions).  if one wants to call albino "lacking a certain pigment then i would bet inverts could.

there seems to be lots of white bugs, but i have not read too much about true albino's.

this page has some problems but is interesting.
http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:...nvertebrate+albinism&hl=en&gl=ca&ct=clnk&cd=3


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## zinto (Jun 20, 2006)

Just curious - what exactly do millipede eggs look like?  I've heard they look similar to centipede eggs, and then I've heard they look like millipede poo...just wondering what I should be looking for (hopefully)!  Thanks!

Nick


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## bugmankeith (Jun 21, 2006)

That albino millipede just looks like it recently shed its skin, giving it an albino appearance. We all know about the fabled "albino cockroach", which turned out to be one that just shed and hasnt got its full coloration yet. But from the looks it's different looking, very cool!


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## Elytra and Antenna (Jun 22, 2006)

zinto said:
			
		

> Just curious - what exactly do millipede eggs look like?  I've heard they look similar to centipede eggs, and then I've heard they look like millipede poo...just wondering what I should be looking for (hopefully)!  Thanks!
> 
> Nick


There are photos of some different millipede eggs in the millipede book.


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## Elytra and Antenna (Jun 22, 2006)

bugmankeith said:
			
		

> That albino millipede just looks like it recently shed its skin, giving it an albino appearance. We all know about the fabled "albino cockroach", which turned out to be one that just shed and hasnt got its full coloration yet. But from the looks it's different looking, very cool!


 There are 4 in that picture.
Millipedes aren't like insects in that they don't lose all their color after a molt, they will be visibly paler but still the same coloration. 
Like vertebrate albinos it's not a lack of all pigment, yellows and reds are a different pigment and are retained. The albino millipedes still have the pink banding between the segments and pink eyes.


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## Elytra and Antenna (Dec 23, 2006)

Interesting update:
The second batch produced only two normal color babies out of hundreds. It would appear the normal color form is dominant as the female had been exposed to a normal male a year before the first batch (that resulted in 25% normal coloration), and two years before the second. A number of breedings with the albino male (and a year) I thought would ensure no remnants but the statistically impossible difference between the first and second batches might only be explained by long term sperm storage and split paternity known in some other arthropods. Anyone familiar with genetics have a different possible conclusion?


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## Elytra and Antenna (Dec 23, 2006)

Ganoderma said:


> nice millipede!  could it have mated with another?  can millipedes have more than one father?  store sperm?


 At this point all three appear to be a yes.


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## Elytra and Antenna (Oct 3, 2007)

The turnaround time was much faster than I expected on these! I just came across eggs through 2nd instar from the adults reared from the first batch.


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## Black Widow88 (Oct 4, 2007)

Crunchie said:


> Sounds excellent! Really wish I could get my hands on that book though


This book is going one my wish list! Thank you for telling me about it. And don't worry you will get your hands on the book if you really want it and are willing to do anything to get your hands on it ( just make sure no one gets killed lol! ). Try  www.amazon.com and see what they have to say on it.

It's worked for me when ever I spot an insect or spider book that I want. And I have to admit that I've gotten alot of stuff off of there too. Currently they're insect & spider books on there that are around $100.00 that I would like. One for x-mas and one for my b-day.

And then there's B&N too. Wishing you luck!



> ....and the female is forming egg capsules....


Wait...._what?_ Millies lay eggs capsules?! Since when? I've always thought that they lay eggs! What do they look like?

Black Widow88


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