# Very Distressed (warning: graphic photo)



## Truff135 (Jan 9, 2008)

I hate to post this but I really want to talk to people that understand.  That 4" female brachypelma boehmei that I ordered arrived DoA.  I have no clue how it happened but she looks....smashed somehow.  I am really upset at the moment.  I emailed the seller and I know he has a return/refund/exchange policy but it really bothers me that such an awesome specimen like this had to pass away so tragically.  She was so big and lovely, and I've been looking forward to her for a long time now.  I had her cage ready and everything, and took off work early.     
I ordered from kenthebugguy.com but he did a great packing job, styrofoam and everything, so it's not his fault.  It looks like maybe she tried to molt but I honestly can't tell amongst...the remains.  Please forgive the graphic image but this is what I came home to:





Thanks for listening guys.  I'm really about crying right now


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## SuperRad (Jan 9, 2008)

I'm so sorry. You were so eager to get her too.

How was the exterior of the box she came in? Did it look like it had a rough time in transit?


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## Truff135 (Jan 9, 2008)

No, the box was in perfect condition.  I was thinking maybe it might have been too much heat for her.  We had warm temperatures here and she came with a heat pack and since it was from CA to OH, I'm worried that the temperatures might have made her...implode?    
It's probably all my fault, I shouldn't have ordered anything from California, even though it was Express.


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## Scott C. (Jan 9, 2008)

That's horrible... You should pat yourself on the back for being a trooper, and not flipping out though.

I hope things get resolved as good as they can be considering the crap circumstances.... You get your beautiful specimen one way, or another.


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## cacoseraph (Jan 9, 2008)

what kidn of heatpack?

give all specs/words you can find on it, plz


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## dtknow (Jan 9, 2008)

It looks like she molted, and then a hard jolt ruptured the abdomen??That would be a horrible thing to come home to...and such a shame a beautiful spider had to be lost like that...and I know Ken packs his stuff very well. My condolences.


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## UrbanJungles (Jan 9, 2008)

Wow, that must have been really horrible to open the box up and find that.  I am not assuming to know about he packing job but that looks like trauma to me...looks like the abdomen ruptured.  Perhaps the box was dropped or thrown?

Sorry for your loss.


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## OldHag (Jan 9, 2008)

That is so sad. Im really sorry that happened. 

It does look like she molted! They are so soft afterwards I would think that any sort of bump or thump would damage her in that state. 

Thats just awful.


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## verry_sweet (Jan 9, 2008)

Aww wow what a tragically sad sight to open after such anticipation. 

I’m so sorry…..


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## GOMER113 (Jan 9, 2008)

Wow, that's pretty messed up.  I had a couple of slings arrive that way also.  Sometimes even with the best packing jobs (like my slings and your boehmei), things like this happen.


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## Truff135 (Jan 9, 2008)

When I first opened the cup she was in, there was the carapace or whatever the crap it's called part of a molt laying on top so I definitely think it was molt-related.  It really blows, pardon my language.
Caco, I'm not much in the mood to go into detail about the specs but I did take some photos of the whole packaging bit (minus some newspaper I already threw away from being upset).  I hope it helps you, if not I'll try to give you the info you want.
The heat pack, pretty big one:





Perishable Express Box:





Styrofoam top:





Inside (there was more newspaper, it wasn't this loose before):





Bottom of box showing dimensions:





Thanks everyone.  I don't even know if I want another one right now.  I was really really looking forward to her and I bought the tank already and set up the freaking onion grass plants and stream replica and little cave to make her happy.   Spent a whole night last Friday getting it all ready for her.  I know, I keep rambling.  sorry


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## pinkzebra (Jan 9, 2008)

Oh Alexis, my dear, that is just awful. I'm so sorry.

*HUGS*HUGS*HUGS


Jen


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## KenTheBugGuy (Jan 9, 2008)

**

That really does suck.  Have lost a couple of slings this way but never an adult cause I usually get signs that they are about to molt.  Well let me know what you want a refund or another tarantula when you are ready.  Sorry you had to see such a dreadful mess of a tarantula.


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## Truff135 (Jan 9, 2008)

Thank you Ken, but I know it wasn't your fault.  I know what you mean about molting signs, usually you can tell but that's what I thought when my g.aureostriata molted on me.  Had no clue it was coming.  I'll get with you in a bit about refund/exchange.  Thank you for your sympathy, all.


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## Gesticulator (Jan 9, 2008)

Oh my, Truff, so sorry. Also great to see the seller is standing by. I keep looking at the picture, so upsetting. DOAs do happen and its a shame that you opened the package in anticipation of a big beautiful T ans saw that. Hang in there.


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## Anastasia (Jan 9, 2008)

oghh, what a mess, sorry Dear


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## Vietnamese510 (Jan 9, 2008)

*!*

Oh My Myy!!


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## sick4x4 (Jan 9, 2008)

if that was the way it was packed :? than of-coarse that was going to happen...i use them(usps) all of the time to ship and use a very similar set-up, though i make sure there is no bouncy room and use either the styro corns or newspaper to completely insulate the t inside the box and limit movement.....i am sorry for your loss and didn't want to add insult to injury...but you definitely need a reimbursement...

wayne


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## xhexdx (Jan 9, 2008)

Alexis,

I'm so so so so so sorry!  I know how disappointing it can be...I lost a B. smithi and B. emilia as DOAs as well, only they were just dead...nothing close to your experience.

I hope you feel better soon.  I'm really sorry...

--Joe


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## Truff135 (Jan 9, 2008)

sick4x4 said:


> if that was the way it was packed :? than of-coarse that was going to happen...i use them(usps) all of the time to ship and use a very similar set-up, though i make sure there is no bouncy room and use either the styro corns or newspaper to completely insulate the t inside the box and limit movement.....i am sorry for your loss and didn't want to add insult to injury...but you definitely need a reimbursement...
> 
> wayne


Wayne, I threw some of the newspaper away before taking those pics (maybe I forgot to post that part).  There wasn't room like that during shipping.  The newspaper was all around and on the top, with the heat pack on top of the newspaper so it wasn't directly on the cup.  I was just really upset and probably forgot to mention that, I'm sorry.


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## -Sarah- (Jan 9, 2008)

Oh, Alexis  I'm so sorry to hear about your poor tarantula!! She looks like she was a real beauty! To me it sure looks like she tried to molt during shipping. Hopefully you can get another one sent to you soon 

-Sarah


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## GailC (Jan 9, 2008)

I know how you feel, I had the same thing happen with a female B. emilia this fall except mine didn't molt, just ruptured. What a horrible thing to find


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## Talkenlate04 (Jan 9, 2008)

Wow sorry about the loss that really really sucks.

On another note. That giant heat pack so close to the T and its container, to me seems like a really bad idea. It could have cooked the T, and they messy part of it was just the dead T bouncing around the rest of the trip. 

Sucks such a beautiful T had to die.   :8o


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## KenTheBugGuy (Jan 9, 2008)

*Pictures*



Talkenlate04 said:


> Wow sorry about the loss that really really sucks.
> 
> On another note. That giant heat pack so close to the T and its container, to me seems like a really bad idea. It could have cooked the T, and they messy part of it was just the dead T bouncing around the rest of the trip.
> 
> Sucks such a beautiful T had to die.   :8o


Been shipping many(over 50 now) T's this way and have not had problems.  I actually put the heat pad on the left side of the ice chest where the hole is and the tarantulas on the right with paper padding on and around the container just to make sure it does not cook the T.  Not to be defensive you just can not see how I packed it from the pics cause the whole set up is different.  I really think it just decided to shed after reviewing the pictures some more.  Unfortunate really as she was a beauty.


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## Truff135 (Jan 9, 2008)

Talkenlate04 said:


> Wow sorry about the loss that really really sucks.
> 
> On another note. That giant heat pack so close to the T and its container, to me seems like a really bad idea. It could have cooked the T, and they messy part of it was just the dead T bouncing around the rest of the trip.
> 
> Sucks such a beautiful T had to die.   :8o


Yeah Ryan I'm sorry you had to see that, I know how much you love brachy's... 
Sorry to hear about your's too, Mina.  At least I'm not alone, not that I _want_ any T's or keepers to have to go through this, but at least I'm not the only one with sucky luck.


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## patrick86 (Jan 9, 2008)

So sorry this happened.

Are you sure it was trying to molt? Looking at the photo it's hard to tell but I don't see anything that would indicate a molt.

It appears that the abdomen burst for what ever reason. The box can go through a lot of punishment and not show any exterior damage. My guess is that the box was dropped or worse. 

I don't know if a heat pack could cook a T, especially if there's a couple of barriers between it. Different layers of air are great insulators.

My condolences to the buyer and the seller.


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## Truff135 (Jan 9, 2008)

KenTheBugGuy said:


> Been shipping many(over 50 now) T's this way and have not had problems.  I actually put the heat pad on the left side of the ice chest where the hole is and the tarantulas on the right with paper padding on and around the container just to make sure it does not cook the T.  Not to be defensive you just can not see how I packed it from the pics cause the whole set up is different.  I really think it just decided to shed after reviewing the pictures some more.  Unfortunate really as she was a beauty.


Yeah I'm sorry Ken, I tried to post the pics as accurately as possible but I've been kind of a mess.  I really do believe it was a molt, and only a molt, that caused this.  I don't doubt your packing abilities and still appreciate all your help in this matter.


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## Truff135 (Jan 9, 2008)

behindyou12 said:


> So sorry this happened.
> 
> Are you sure it was trying to molt? Looking at the photo it's hard to tell but I don't see anything that would indicate a molt.
> 
> ...


Almost positive.  When I first opened the box, before opening the cup, there was part of an exuvium in the paper towel, that was not from the accident down underneath.  It wasn't...messy...like that.  Plus, she was on her side/back indicating to me that she had tried to flip and molt and probably just got stuck, then along with the shipping process got damaged from being soft.  I don't blame Ken for that either, because I have had a tarantula molt unexpectedly on me.  She had shown no signs of molting so I do believe that he didn't know about it.
I just want to make sure everyone knows that I do not place any fault at all on Ken.  That wasn't why I posted this, I just wanted to share this experience because so many people knew I had ordered her and was expecting her, and I was supposed to post some pics.  Please do not turn this into an accusation.  Ken and I are discussing the matter privately.
I do appreciate everyone's concern though, it does mean a lot to me, so thank you all.


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## CustomNature (Jan 9, 2008)

Just to throw my two cents in, I would also like to state that I've gotten T's from Ken and the packing was great.  As he mentioned, the pictures aren't of exactly how the items were packed.  She mentioned that she saw the molted carapace in the 'mess' so, to me, it seems like a closed case.  By the looks of it, the spider had to have been in the ultra soft post-molt stage to arrive in that state of 'gooeyness'.


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## Truff135 (Jan 9, 2008)

HoldThePickle said:


> Just to throw my two cents in, I would also like to state that I've gotten T's from Ken and the packing was great.  As he mentioned, the pictures aren't of exactly how the items were packed.  She mentioned that she saw the molted carapace in the 'mess' so, to me, it seems like a closed case.  By the looks of it, the spider had to have been in the ultra soft post-molt stage to arrive in that state of 'gooeyness'.


Yeah, I'm 99% certain that's what it was.  Again I apologize for not accurately showing the packaging, I wasn't really thinking straight at the moment. :8o


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## cacoseraph (Jan 9, 2008)

behindyou12 said:


> I don't know if a heat pack could cook a T, especially if there's a couple of barriers between it. Different layers of air are great insulators.


not that i feel one way or other about what killed it (i can't see pics at work) but...  i was wondering what kind because some have spike temps of 160*F+

that could easily cook a tarantula.


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## KenTheBugGuy (Jan 9, 2008)

*Heat packs*



cacoseraph said:


> not that i feel one way or other about what killed it (i can't see pics at work) but...  i was wondering what kind because some have spike temps of 160*F+
> 
> that could easily cook a tarantula.


It was one of the kinds you buy for shipping reptiles...

http://www.reptiledepot.com/pics/heatpak.jpg  that is the brand actually


Alexis do not be sorry you have done nothing wrong ...just a discussion


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## cacoseraph (Jan 9, 2008)

KenTheBugGuy said:


> It was one of the kinds you buy for shipping reptiles...
> 
> http://www.reptiledepot.com/pics/heatpak.jpg  that is the brand actually
> 
> ...


should be good then.  it is the ones that are not build to ship animals that can have the higher spike temps. i imagine they are built to less exacting standards


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## smof (Jan 9, 2008)

Oh man, so sorry to hear that. I can imagine how horrible it would be to open up the package and find that  The poor T. I feel for you, I have had a DoA before and it wasn't as shocking as that but it was a T I was really looking forward to as well and it is really, really sad.


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## sick4x4 (Jan 9, 2008)

andrew the temps peak out at 115*f and settles to 100* ..as long as you leave some space for air flow.... you should be fine with heat though i have heard of rare occasions when it does get hot....here what i use and think its what the shipper used..."note i use 40 hours" i would no recommend the 60-72 hour ones...


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## KenTheBugGuy (Jan 9, 2008)

*packs*



sick4x4 said:


> andrew the temps peak out at 115*f and settles to 100* ..as long as you leave some space for air flow.... you should be fine with heat though i have heard of rare occasions when it does get hot....here what i use and think its what the shipper used..."note i use 40 hours" i would no recommend the 60-72 hour ones...


Yah I used that same brand.


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## dtknow (Jan 10, 2008)

If you count the legs and look at the brightness on the left and on the right you can see what looks like the shed on the right.


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## PhormictopusMan (Jan 10, 2008)

I am very sorry Alexis.  My nine year old A. purpurea died tonight, just as I was sure she was doing better, and I was just dealing with that and then I saw this and really felt for you.  It can be pretty heartbreaking.

--Chris


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## Strix (Jan 10, 2008)

Hey Alexis,

I'm sorry to see and hear about your loss.  It really stinks especially since I know you were really excited about getting her.  I feel your pain though because my G. aureostriata I believe came DOA as well, although in not as bad condition.  I made an ICU box for her just in case and Ken has been really really helpful in the situation and we are talking in private about it as well.

Unfortunately it happens and they were both really beautiful spiders and looked really well taken care of and I really think Ken did a great job on the packaging. 

My A. hentzi arrived in great condition though and I am really pleased with Ken's service and quick responses.


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## tacoma0680 (Jan 10, 2008)

I have done deals with him he is a great guy somthing must have happened during the shipping of the spider im sorry for you lose man..


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## penny'smom (Jan 10, 2008)

You _did_ mention that Alexis; you even stated at the top of the "inside" pic that it hadn't been that loose before.   Perhaps Wayne just skimmed through and missed the comments.

I am so sorry for your loss.

Ken, I commend you for being the stand up guy that you are.


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## Lorgakor (Jan 10, 2008)

To the seller: Every _Brachypelma_ I've ever owned has had a lengthy pre-molt stage, not eating for months before hand. Did this spider keep eating right up until you shipped it? 

Sorry for your loss Alexis, I hope it doesn't stop you from getting more. It is definitely a great species to have.


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## Truff135 (Jan 10, 2008)

I was rather distraught yesterday and did feel like giving up but, I just love those boehmei's too much to let a freak accident prevent me from trying again.  Thank you for the concern, and for that bit of info concerning pre-molt time.  I'll make sure to keep it in mind for when I have my own.


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## KenTheBugGuy (Jan 10, 2008)

*eating*



Lorgakor said:


> To the seller: Every _Brachypelma_ I've ever owned has had a lengthy pre-molt stage, not eating for months before hand. Did this spider keep eating right up until you shipped it?
> 
> Sorry for your loss Alexis, I hope it doesn't stop you from getting more. It is definitely a great species to have.


Yah it ate the friday before I shipped.  I was wondering if the warm moist enviroment in shipping caused it to do this...has not happened to any other adults but I did have someone say that 2 slings molted (they were fine though) in shipping also.  I actually shipped 13 shipments with over 50 T's this week and I had this one and another(Chaco) not make it...granted the other one was priority and it looks fine so not sure what happened there.


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## WyvernsLair (Jan 10, 2008)

Lorgakor said:


> To the seller: Every _Brachypelma_ I've ever owned has had a lengthy pre-molt stage, not eating for months before hand. Did this spider keep eating right up until you shipped it?


Strange, every brachy I have will continue to eat up to a few days before a molt - some will even eat the day before a molt LOL.


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## treeweta (Jan 10, 2008)

looks like that poor beast tried to moult during transit.

possibly the best way to ship T's is that used by 'entomological livestock supplies' in the UK (when it was doing business). the spider is put in a strong polythene bag and allowed/encouraged to curl its legs in, a knot is secured just above the spider, it means the spider cannot move but is safe in the bag that is then secured in cotton wool in a tough box. The fact the spider cannot move or be jolted atall meant that i never had any injuries through mailing.


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## Stylopidae (Jan 11, 2008)

Sorry to be gruff, but if these types of mistakes will discourage you from getting another spider then this isn't a hobby you need to be a part of. Not for the sake of the animals, but for the sake of your sanity.

Animals will die en route to your house. This is an unavoidable part of the hobby. It's tragic, but it happens to everyone.


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## Truff135 (Jan 11, 2008)

Cheshire said:


> Sorry to be gruff, but if these types of mistakes will discourage you from getting another spider then this isn't a hobby you need to be a part of. Not for the sake of the animals, but for the sake of your sanity.
> 
> Animals will die en route to your house. This is an unavoidable part of the hobby. It's tragic, but it happens to everyone.


No, I understand and agree.  I initially felt disheartened at the time but what can I say, I'm stubborn and darn it I WILL have one, one way or another.  My sanity isn't even an issue here, I lost it a long time ago... 
Thanks, Joe.  I appreciate the "gruff" responses as much as the sympathy ones, helps me get my mind back on track


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## jeff1962 (Jan 11, 2008)

Lorgakor said:


> To the seller: Every _Brachypelma_ I've ever owned has had a lengthy pre-molt stage, not eating for months before hand. Did this spider keep eating right up until you shipped it?
> 
> Sorry for your loss Alexis, I hope it doesn't stop you from getting more. It is definitely a great species to have.


 Thats your experince. When my Emila molted a couple months ago the only thing she did was eat less for about a month.Otherwise there were no signs at all. Until the day before when she made a mat.I have not been in this hobby long but one thing I have learned is that there are no hard and fast rules for anything.


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## Profkrakatoa (Jan 13, 2008)

*Hypothesis*

I was talking to my husband about what happened to your poor girl. He asked if she was shipped by plane - his thougt was perhaps she molted, then was in an unpressurized cargo hold and the soft exo couldn't maintain integrity.  I have NO idea if there is any basis in this - it was just a theory I'd throw out there.


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## Truff135 (Jan 13, 2008)

I imagine that was the case because she arrived in two days.  The dealer I ordered from is located in California, and I'm in Ohio, which is about a 4 days' drive at least.  I didn't even think of that, and that is possible.


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## Lorgakor (Jan 13, 2008)

jeff1962 said:


> Thats your experince. When my Emila molted a couple months ago the only thing she did was eat less for about a month.Otherwise there were no signs at all. Until the day before when she made a mat.I have not been in this hobby long but one thing I have learned is that there are no hard and fast rules for anything.


I never said there was, that's why I asked a question instead of making an accusation.


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## squamata99 (Jan 14, 2008)

When I saw the pictures I freaked out for a minute.  I thought that was a boehmi that I shipped a few months ago.  It was shipped without a heat pack, well-packed with newspaper - so no bumpy rides would jolt it around.  It arrived the next day to the customer in the exact same condition.  Gooey and a mess, but no box damage at all.  Not close to a molt or anything either.  But it looked identical to those pictures.:?  I reimbursed the customer........


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## DrAce (Jan 17, 2008)

Profkrakatoa said:


> I was talking to my husband about what happened to your poor girl. He asked if she was shipped by plane - his thougt was perhaps she molted, then was in an unpressurized cargo hold and the soft exo couldn't maintain integrity.  I have NO idea if there is any basis in this - it was just a theory I'd throw out there.


I don't think this is reasonable.  While there is a loss of pressure in those places, it's only pressurised containers (like spray bottles, and soft-drink cans) that 'explode'.

You would need to have the pressure drop a lot before there would be enough of a build up for the poor thing to 'pop'.  And even if it did, it would probably 'ooze' out an oriface rather than pop.

Sorry to be graphic.

I'm really sorry about the spider.


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## The_Thunderer (Jan 18, 2008)

Hey, Alexis!

I thought I responded to this thread.  So sorry that this happened and hope that you NEVER have to go through this type of thing again.

Hope that since all this happened a while ago, things have gotten better and the situation has been taken care of (as I'm sure it did).

On the brighter side, you seem to have added quite a few to your collection (while I've been away).  Congrats!!!  LOL.


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