# calcium supplements for tarantula



## ddandori (Apr 29, 2009)

Hi fellaz, I need your help.

In my country, there is a shop which sells two below products as

"calcium supplement extra made for tarantulas and scorpions"

Flukers cricket quencher calcium
http://www.flukerfarms.com/cricketquenchercalcium.aspx

Zilla's cricket drink calcium
http://www.zilla-rules.com/products/cricket-drinks.htm

The shop says one can feed above gels direct to tarantulas and tarantulas

would of course appreciate it. As far as I understood above products are

made as cricket gut loaders..and those calcium enriched crickets would be

good for reptiles...those products were not made to be provided to tarantula

directly.

     What do you guys think so? is the shop right? Plz give me your opinions

and also does someone know if tarantulas need lots of calciums????


----------



## Moltar (Apr 29, 2009)

There has been some debate on this, but the general consensus is that tarantulas cannot get moisture from these gel products. Their mouthparts are built to suction liquid, not chew solids. They may be attracted to the moisture in the gel and attempt to drink it but they cannot actually ingest the water. Plain water should be provided in a shallow dish. You can put some pebbles in there to allow prey items to escape drowning but don't put a sponge or other absorbent material in the dish. They breed bacteria and serve as a good place for crickets to lay eggs.

Furthermore, invertebrates don't have a need for calcium supplements, they don't use it. They have no bones and their exoskeletons are made of chitin, which is protein based rather than calcium based. It is likely that large quantities of calcium can actually be harmful to them so no calcium supplements are reccomended.


----------



## skips (Apr 29, 2009)

I'm going to second etown.  Spiders are chelicerates where crickets and things that can grab that gel are mandibulates.  Their mouth parts are completely different.

I mean, calcium is important in cell signaling and muscle contraction, but etown is pointing toward the fact that we use our bones as a storage site for calcium and for structure.  I would think that spiders would get more than enough calium from their diet, and i'm fairly sure ive heard that you're not supposed to put scorpions and spiders on calcium carbonate substrate (intended for reptiles) I assume because it may cause some kind of organ damage...nephridia probably.

I'm pretty sure that shop is BSing you, whether intentionally or not.


----------



## Travis K (Apr 29, 2009)

Lots of people feel calcium and inverts are no no's for the most part.  Millipedes are one of the only inverts I am aware that benefit from calcium supplementation.


----------



## pandinus (Apr 29, 2009)

if i recall correctly the element which heps to harden a T's chelicera is magnesium (im shaky on which metal it is, can someone please confirm or refute this?) and a hevy diet of calcium can actually start to corrode or degrade this and cause the mouthparts to become weal and brittle which in the case of T blondi's which up till recently were given mice by many people as a staple food, actually resulted in many suffering from fang loss and starving.


John


----------



## Nerri1029 (Apr 29, 2009)

I wish I'd taken more BIO CHEM / ORGANIC CHEM. ( I'm more of a P-Chem person. )

but I remember Ca and Mg being in "competition" that is one can and will replace the other in compounds.


----------



## the_mask86 (Apr 29, 2009)

i suppose don't take the risk?
most of us here don't give our Ts calcium.
when i was a beginner i thought Ts were like my dragons, so i dusted all their crickets heavily with calcium.

lucky i found out otherwise fast enough, no said wet molts or broken fangs from my collection yet, as of now...


----------



## skips (Apr 29, 2009)

http://journals.ohiolink.edu/ejc/pd...7427061&issue=v04i0006&article=2045_rotmisobt

That I looked at the introduction to that article.  It looks like what you might want.  A bit of it:

"The mechanical properties of numerous hard biological
tissues, such as those in mandibles, stingers and ovipositors
of invertebrates, have been correlated with the presence of
unmineralized transition metals, particularly Zn, Mn, and
Cu [1–10]. However, little is known about their efficacy
for sclerotization, the chemical mechanisms responsible
for hardening or the basis of metal specificity"

yeah, I mean, lets just go with calcium=bad


----------



## ddandori (Apr 30, 2009)

hey thanks alot for your effort! but what does it mean? since my english is good I coudn't understand it 100%. But looks like it can be used as a obhectic and scientific reason to tell why Calcium is not needed


----------



## jme (Apr 30, 2009)

i have calcimizer mix for my snkakes water and also use it in my misting bottle witch i use to mist my T.s could this be bad ?


----------



## Moltar (Apr 30, 2009)

jme said:


> i have calcimizer mix for my snkakes water and also use it in my misting bottle witch i use to mist my T.s could this be bad ?


The worst thing about that will be the mineral buildup on the glass. If they're drinking from the glass they either don't need the calcium or it's bad for them (depending on who you ask)


----------



## skips (May 1, 2009)

ddandori said:


> hey thanks alot for your effort! but what does it mean? since my english is good I coudn't understand it 100%. But looks like it can be used as a obhectic and scientific reason to tell why Calcium is not needed


Wang, Wei-Na. “Calcium, phosphorus and adenylate levels and Na+-K+-ATPase activities of prawn, Macrobrachium nipponense, during the moult cycle.” Comparative Biochemistry & Physiology Part A: Molecular & Integrative Physiology, v. 134 issue 2, 2003, p. 297.

these guys are talking about calcification of exoskeleton in crustaceans.  The exoskeleton does contain Calcium Carbonate.  really, in all the articles ive seen titles for, about 10, ive only seen calcium associated with crustaceans.

for chelicerates like spiders and scorpions ive seen zince, copper, and one other metal i mentioned above used to coordinate with the chitin exoskeleton to make it hard.  I'm sure they need calcium for cell signaling and such, but maybe not for exoskeleton hardening.

That's all I got.



jme said:


> i have calcimizer mix for my snkakes water and also use it in my misting bottle witch i use to mist my T.s could this be bad ?


Um...probably.  especially if it gets on their food.  otherwise...maybe just irritating.


----------



## Mushroom Spore (May 1, 2009)

jme said:


> i have calcimizer mix for my snkakes water


I'm not aware of any snake that would need this. The bones in their prey provide plenty of calcium.


----------



## jme (May 1, 2009)

yeah i mostly just use it beacouse its a water purifier plus calcimizer gonna start just buying 4 letre jugs of spring water though


----------



## equuskat (May 1, 2009)

I do not believe that tarantulas need calcium other than in the very trace amounts that they get from their prey (not dusted, natural content).  I also know that tarantulas drink just fine from a bowl of water and that bacteria-collecting mess of water crystals is pretty unnecessary.


----------



## Sathane (May 2, 2009)

Ts don't need calcium supplemention.
They get plenty of it from the bowl of milk you should leave in their enclosure and also from your milk spray bottle.
No need for any supplements.


----------



## skips (May 2, 2009)

Sathane said:


> Ts don't need calcium supplemention.
> They get plenty of it from the bowl of milk you should leave in their enclosure and also from your milk spray bottle.
> No need for any supplements.


Milk, really?  I don't own T's yet so i'm curious.  Could you provide a source for that being necessary?


----------



## equuskat (May 2, 2009)

(he's kidding) :wall:


----------



## BrynWilliams (May 2, 2009)

Now that made me laugh


----------



## Sathane (May 2, 2009)

Or am I? 

The infamous arachnologist Scotty McTugginteats, who grew up on a dairy farm in Northern Alaska, noted that when he fed his Pampobeteus sp. "Arctic Fang" tarantulas a diet consisting largely of milk and cheese curd that they had markedly stronger bones when compared to those specimens that were fed water and celery.
Those specimens also exhibited evidence of stronger fangs and more healthy, manageable bristles.  



Katy_green said:


> (he's kidding) :wall:


----------



## BrynWilliams (May 2, 2009)

This thread just became possibly the most awesome thread ever.


----------



## Sathane (May 2, 2009)

I totally agree. 



BrynWilliams said:


> This thread just became possibly the most awesome thread ever.


----------



## wedge07 (May 2, 2009)

Sathane said:


> Or am I?
> 
> The infamous arachnologist Scotty McTugginteats, who grew up on a dairy farm in Northern Alaska, noted that when he fed his Pampobeteus sp. "Arctic Fang" tarantulas a diet consisting largely of milk and cheese curd that they had markedly stronger bones when compared to those specimens that were fed water and celery.
> Those specimens also exhibited evidence of stronger fangs and more healthy, manageable bristles.



That's funny.


----------



## skips (May 2, 2009)

.........:wall: hahaha, fine, fine, jokes on this guy.  Ok, I thought that sounded rediculous, but I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt.  People do some weird stuff with their animals.


----------



## skips (May 2, 2009)

Sathane said:


> Or am I?
> Those specimens also exhibited evidence of stronger fangs and more healthy, manageable bristles.


sounds like an herbal essences commerical for arachnids


----------



## Sathane (May 2, 2009)

lol.   Too true.



skips said:


> .........:wall: hahaha, fine, fine, jokes on this guy.  Ok, I thought that sounded rediculous, but I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt.  *People do some weird stuff with their animals*.


----------

