# What is Chilobrachys sp.Black Satan?



## Jmanbeing93 (Jun 10, 2017)

Hi all, I was wondering what this particular spider is (NW or OW) and why is it called the Black Satan? Does it have to do with it's temperament?

I found it here: http://petcenter.info/petcenterstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=1478


----------



## Ungoliant (Jun 10, 2017)

Jmanbeing93 said:


> why is it called the Black Satan?


Marketing gimmick.

Reactions: Agree 3


----------



## cold blood (Jun 10, 2017)

Old world...Asian...like most they can in fact be nasty


----------



## Walker253 (Jun 10, 2017)

It's an OW (Asian). It's name is directly tied to it's personality. Maybe a marketing gimmick, but the C sp Black Satan is not docile. It's a typical Chilobrachys. Reclusive, but highly defensive if it feels the need.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## nicodimus22 (Jun 11, 2017)

Ungoliant said:


> Marketing gimmick.


In that case, they should have saved that name for the P. cancerides instead.


----------



## Jmanbeing93 (Jun 11, 2017)

cold blood said:


> Old world...Asian...like most they can in fact be nasty


Are Asian tarantulas exceptionally nasty/defensive compared to other OW tarantulas? Sorry if my question seems stupid but I am intrigued by the spider.


----------



## Walker253 (Jun 11, 2017)

Jmanbeing93 said:


> Are Asian tarantulas exceptionally nasty/defensive compared to other OW tarantulas? Sorry if my question seems stupid but I am intrigued by the spider.


No dumb questions. I feel Asians are the next step of defensiveness compared to pretty much any African. Once you are used to them, it all becomes pretty easy imo. BTW, I call my C lividus, "Blue Satan" Shes my only tarantula that will throw a threat posture just for looking at her.

Reactions: Funny 4


----------



## cold blood (Jun 11, 2017)

Jmanbeing93 said:


> Are Asian tarantulas exceptionally nasty/defensive compared to other OW tarantulas?


generally, yes.


----------



## Jmanbeing93 (Jun 11, 2017)

Walker253 said:


> No dumb questions. I feel Asians are the next step of defensiveness compared to pretty much any African. Once you are used to them, it all becomes pretty easy imo. BTW, I call my C lividus, "Blue Satan" Shes my only tarantula that will throw a threat posture just for looking at her.





cold blood said:


> generally, yes.


Thank you very much for explaining, I greatly appreciate it. 

I take that they aren't really a beginner spider and should be only be kept by the experienced?


----------



## Walker253 (Jun 11, 2017)

Jmanbeing93 said:


> Thank you very much for explaining, I greatly appreciate it.
> 
> I take that they aren't really a beginner spider and should be only be kept by the experienced?


Yeah, If you're just beginning, work your way there. If a jet black tarantula is desired, look for a Grammostola pulchra. They are stunning, stay out and won't send you to the ER if there is a bite. Good luck on getting a G pulchra to bite.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 4


----------



## cold blood (Jun 11, 2017)

Jmanbeing93 said:


> I take that they aren't really a beginner spider and should be only be kept by the experienced?


correct.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## cold blood (Jun 11, 2017)

Walker253 said:


> Yeah, If you're just beginning, work your way there. If a jet black tarantula is desired, look for a Grammostola pulchra. They are stunning, stay out and won't send you to the ER if there is a bite. Good luck on getting a G pulchra to bite.


or vagans.













vagans



__ cold blood
__ Jun 4, 2017



						B. vagans female
					
















B. vagans



__ cold blood
__ Jun 4, 2017
__ 1



						freshly molted

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Walker253 (Jun 11, 2017)

A Brachypelma vagans will be at a similar price point to a C sp Black Satan. The G pulchra will cost more and is a bit harder to find.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Jmanbeing93 (Jun 11, 2017)

cold blood said:


> or vagans.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's a big boy/girl, kind of intimidating. Beautiful coloration and this is coming from someone who is usually afraid of them.


----------



## Walker253 (Jun 11, 2017)

That's much less intimidating than any Asian. They both top out at a similar size. You can always start with a juvenile. Brachypelma and Grammostola species are much slower and more mellow than any old world

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


----------



## Jmanbeing93 (Jun 11, 2017)

Walker253 said:


> That's much less intimidating than any Asian. They both top out at a similar size. You can always start with a juvenile. Brachypelma and Grammostola species are much slower and more mellow than any old world


Would you recommend a Mexican Red-Rump to a beginner, or would you recommend that the beginner get more experience before attempting to care for a Mexican Red Rump?


----------



## Ungoliant (Jun 11, 2017)

Jmanbeing93 said:


> Would you recommend a Mexican Red-Rump to a beginner


Yes. Any reasonably priced _Euathlus_, _Grammostola_, or _Brachypelma_ is generally a good beginner species.

@EulersK made these videos highlighting some beginner species:


----------



## Walker253 (Jun 11, 2017)

Jmanbeing93 said:


> Would you recommend a Mexican Red-Rump to a beginner, or would you recommend that the beginner get more experience before attempting to care for a Mexican Red Rump?


Very good beginners species. Widely available and reasonably priced.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## cold blood (Jun 11, 2017)

Jmanbeing93 said:


> That's a big boy/girl, kind of intimidating. Beautiful coloration and this is coming from someone who is usually afraid of them.


Female...she's actually only 4"....she will top out around 6".


Jmanbeing93 said:


> Would you recommend a Mexican Red-Rump to a beginner, or would you recommend that the beginner get more experience before attempting to care for a Mexican Red Rump?


Yes, theyre a good beginner species.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Jmanbeing93 (Jun 11, 2017)

cold blood said:


> Female...she's actually only 4"....she will top out around 6".
> 
> 
> Yes, theyre a good beginner species.


How much do they usually go for? Because I saw being sold for 89.99 and another was 24.99. That's a wild fluctuation in price.

Nice, she is quite beautiful.


----------



## Walker253 (Jun 11, 2017)

90 bucks is highway robbery. I bought a sexed 4" female for 40 and a 2.5" sexed female for 35. I saw a bunch of unsexed larger ones at the last reptile show for 35. I've seen slings as low as 8 bucks

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## cold blood (Jun 11, 2017)

Jmanbeing93 said:


> How much do they usually go for? Because I saw being sold for 89.99 and another was 24.99. That's a wild fluctuation in price.
> 
> Nice, she is quite beautiful.


The wide variance is due to differences in the individual spider...sexed females are *always* worth the most...slings are *always* the best bargain.....now $90 for even a female vagans is a lot......larger slings run $10-15, small slings can be had for 3-8 bucks.  I've got larger slings (1+") for $12....theyre typically not too difficult to find.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Jmanbeing93 (Jun 11, 2017)

Walker253 said:


> 90 bucks is highway robbery. I bought a sexed 4" female for 40 and a 2.5" sexed female for 35. I saw a bunch of unsexed larger ones at the last reptile show for 35. I've seen slings as low as 8 bucks


Wow, who would do such a thing? Why jack the prices like that? I am glad that to hear that I can get one for much, much cheaper.


----------



## Jmanbeing93 (Jun 11, 2017)

cold blood said:


> The wide variance is due to differences in the individual spider...sexed females are *always* worth the most...slings are *always* the best bargain.....now $90 for even a female vagans is a lot......larger slings run $10-15, small slings can be had for 3-8 bucks.  I've got larger slings (1+") for $12....theyre typically not too difficult to find.


Oh ok, I get it now. Sorry,I must have missed this. I think if l were to get a spider, I would be looking at the slings.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Ungoliant (Jun 11, 2017)

Jmanbeing93 said:


> How much do they usually go for? Because I saw being sold for 89.99 and another was 24.99. That's a wild fluctuation in price.


Price also varies a lot by species. Even two members of the same genus might be priced quite differently. For example, _Grammostola pulchra_ tends to be fairly expensive ($90 might not be unreasonable for a juvenile), whereas _Grammostola pulchripes_ is much more affordable.

Geographic location also plays a big role. There are species that are common in the U.S. and rare in Europe and vice versa.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## mconnachan (Jun 11, 2017)

Slings are the way to go if price is an issue, here in the UK I paid £6 for 2 slings, another time I paid £25 but that was a P. _metallica_ sling, one of the highest priced slings was a for a Typhochlaena _seladonia - _£400.00, that's expensive for a 6mm spider, very rare at one time. Usually slings are the best way to go, as you get to know that particular spiders behaviour, imo.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## mconnachan (Jun 11, 2017)

Ungoliant said:


> Price also varies a lot by species. Even two members of the same genus might be priced quite differently. For example, _Grammostola pulchra_ tends to be fairly expensive ($90 might not be unreasonable for a juvenile), whereas _Grammostola pulchripes_ is much more affordable.
> 
> Geographic location also plays a big role. There are species that are common in the U.S. and rare in Europe and vice versa.


Have to agree with this, there seems to be more variety in the States, but some seem very expensive, compared to the UK/Europe. Although here in the UK we don't have as many breeders as in the States, we usually have to go wholesale, and in turn we pay more, depending on sp.

Reactions: Disagree 1


----------



## Jmanbeing93 (Jun 11, 2017)

So how does the Black Satan (Chilobrachys sp.) actually behave? How does it compare to the NWTs?


----------



## mack1855 (Jun 11, 2017)

Or you could always keep a eye out for a Chilobrachys sp.GoodnaturedCreampuff.


----------



## Walker253 (Jun 11, 2017)

Typical Chilobrachys, grumpy and reclusive. They are fossorial and stay in their hole mostly. If you catch them out, they'll great you with a threat posture. First option is to flee to their hole. Second is you may get a that threat posture or worse. They may decide to do anything including running up a pair of tongs to bite you on the way out. That's a big reason why they aren't a beginning species. 
Comparing that to a new world, depends. If you stay with a fossorial T, they're kinda similar, but more toned down. The bite doesn't pack the punch. They are still reclusive, but if caught out, you may get that threat posture, but other attempts are usually just to escape.
As far as regular terrestrial NW's, its nowhere near the same. Some New World terrestrials get a bit grumpy (P cancerides), but it's way more manageable. The risks are much less. They tend to be slower as well. Other NW terrestrials will kick uricating hairs for defense.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Helpful 1


----------



## Jmanbeing93 (Jun 11, 2017)

Walker253 said:


> Typical Chilobrachys, grumpy and reclusive. They are fossorial and stay in their hole mostly. If you catch them out, they'll great you with a threat posture. First option is to flee to their hole. Second is you may get a that threat posture or worse. They may decide to do anything including running up a pair of tongs to bite you on the way out. That's a big reason why they aren't a beginning species.
> Comparing that to a new world, depends. If you stay with a fossorial T, they're kinda similar, but more toned down. The bite doesn't pack the punch. They are still reclusive, but if caught out, you may get that threat posture, but other attempts are usually just to escape.
> As far as regular terrestrial NW's, its nowhere near the same. Some New World terrestrials get a bit grumpy (P cancerides), but it's way more manageable. The risks are much less. They tend to be slower as well. Other NW terrestrials will kick uricating hairs for defense.


Definitely an irritable creature and serious business, I definitely see why they are not for beginners. The OW and NW T's sound like they really are worlds apart.


----------



## Martin H. (Oct 2, 2017)

BTW, in the meantime Chilobrachys sp. Black Satan was IDed as Chilobrachys fumosus.

Reactions: Like 3 | Informative 1


----------



## Poec54 (Oct 2, 2017)

Jmanbeing93 said:


> Definitely an irritable creature and serious business, I definitely see why they are not for beginners. The OW and NW T's sound like they really are worlds apart.



Good observation.  Most NW's rely on urticating hairs, which are basically projectiles they can safely throw from a distance.  They often have larger, rounder abdomens because running isn't necessarily their first line of defense, and because it allows them a larger patch of urticating hairs.   

OW's don't have it so good.  They rely more on a combination of high speed running, unpredictable bursts, threats & bites, and stronger venom.  Standing in a defensive posture is risky, as the spider can no longer see it's adversary.  Biting too has it's drawbacks, as that requires physical contact and allows adversaries a greater opportunity to injure or kill the spider.  None of what we see from them in captivity is anger, it's fear for their lives.  To them we're another potential predator than can kill them in a second.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## darkness975 (Oct 2, 2017)

Poec54 said:


> Good observation.  Most NW's rely on urticating hairs, which are basically projectiles they can safely throw from a distance.  They often have larger, rounder abdomens because running isn't necessarily their first line of defense, and because it allows them a larger patch of urticating hairs.
> 
> OW's don't have it so good.  They rely more on a combination of high speed running, unpredictable bursts, threats & bites, and stronger venom.  Standing in a defensive posture is risky, as the spider can no longer see it's adversary.  Biting too has it's drawbacks, as that requires physical contact and allows adversaries a greater opportunity to injure or kill the spider.  None of what we see from them in captivity is anger, it's fear for their lives.  To them we're another potential predator than can kill them in a second.


Good to see you back, friend.  Missed you !

@Jmanbeing93 yes there are stark differences as others have mentioned.  Best to not jump into OW's right away.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Poec54 (Oct 2, 2017)

_Walker253:_  Great advice in your posts.  Experience and knowledge I don't see often enough.  You know your stuff.  Glad you're here.


----------



## Jmanbeing93 (Oct 2, 2017)

Martin H. said:


> BTW, in the meantime Chilobrachys sp. Black Satan was IDed as Chilobrachys fumosus.


Is Chilobrachys fumosus supposed to be black? It looks more a brown color and comes from India.
Black Satan should be solid black and comes from Nepal. I am confused.

http://www.tarantupedia.com/selenocosmiinae/chilobrachys/chilobrachys-fumosus

Look at the picture, the spider appears to be brown instead of black.

Not a good video but the note how black the Black Satan is: 




I am not sure that it is the same spider as fumosus.

A better video, skip to the 1:10 mark:


----------



## Martin H. (Oct 18, 2017)

Jmanbeing93 said:


> Is Chilobrachys fumosus supposed to be black?


says who?
BTW, colour is in tarantulas not a taxonomic relevant factor.




Jmanbeing93 said:


> It looks more a brown color and comes from India.
> Black Satan should be solid black and comes from Nepal. I am confused.


tarantulas don't pay attention to human borders!

Don't know who IDed the brownish spiders and how which where introduced years with the lable "Chilobrachys fumosus" into the pet trade - only thing I can say: Volker von Wirth examined material from the "black satan" stuff and came to the conclusion, that it is similar to Chilobrachys fumosus.


----------



## Sana (Oct 18, 2017)

Coloration can vary depending on where the individual is in it’s molt cycle.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Informative 1


----------

