# This may not be a ball python forum but...



## lizardminion (Aug 7, 2012)

I always just assumed my ball python was a normal like the petstore sold him as, although before buying it, I had always hoped that I'd luck out and get something that would slip by the employee's eyes. Funny thing is, after his most recent shed, I think I did, and it just may have slipped by my eyes for so long as well. Speculation first began, though, while buying supplies at the local cesspool- err, I mean PETCO, and I thought, while looking at the ball pythons for sale there, aside from mine being quite healthier, all three in the cage displayed colors and pattern (mainly colors) different from my little fellow. Now, I'm 101% sure the petco pythons are normals. But I never really thought about it for a while until I arrived back home from a road-trip yesterday, and discovered my ball python had shed. Now, I know ball pythons might be lighter after a shed, but my python seems a little _too_ lighter in my opinion. Not that I think that's anything bad, as I think it would be cool to watch this in a fire morph ball python or a jungle carpet. (which is why they're on my want-list)
Anyway, I just got some pics and would like to know if my theory can be confirmed by the more experienced fellows here. Sorry I don't have any cameras that isn't in a cell phone, but one of these days I'll get a $200 billion camera and take up photography as a hobby. 
Head





Side (displaying his signature squiggle)





Belly/Ventral





So any idea on what morph he is - if any? Or is he just an oddball among normals.


----------



## Aviara (Aug 7, 2012)

Honestly, it's hard to tell in that photograph. I will warn however, that even if you have a special morph on your hands, you should avoid breeding a snake from Petco. Only well-maintained stock from reliable breeders should be bred, and snakes from Petco certainly don't fall into that category. If he does have a unique color morph, this can make him more valuable but that fact alone should not make him breeding stock. The bloodlines, health, conformation and temperament of the snake and its parents must be taken into consideration before breeding.


----------



## cmack91 (Aug 7, 2012)

Take the same pics, just in sunlight.


----------



## Hayden (Aug 7, 2012)

Honestly, he doesn't look any different than any of my normal ball pythons. :/ Might be a dinker.


----------



## lizardminion (Aug 7, 2012)

Aviara said:


> Honestly, it's hard to tell in that photograph. I will warn however, that even if you have a special morph on your hands, you should avoid breeding a snake from Petco. Only well-maintained stock from reliable breeders should be bred, and snakes from Petco certainly don't fall into that category. If he does have a unique color morph, this can make him more valuable but that fact alone should not make him breeding stock. The bloodlines, health, conformation and temperament of the snake and its parents must be taken into consideration before breeding.


Technically, he wasn't purchased in Petco but PetSmart. Doesn't matter though, I guess.
I never really have any plans to breed him at all. I prefer keeping any reptiles I obtain as a pet, and I have no plans for breeding. I am more so heading in the direction of a collector or a pet keeper than a breeder and will maintain reptiles as a small (if that's possible) hobby. I'm just more so curious if he's quite possibly a morph. 

I found a pic saved somewhere of his head. Yes, flash was on. I took it hearing that some morphs have some tell-tale signs or signatures on their head.






Edit: I'll have to get some better lighting on these pics. In person, he appears quite lighter.


----------



## Aviara (Aug 7, 2012)

Natural lighting might help us give you a more conclusive answer. The color does look a tiny bit more vivid than is typical toward the belly area, but it's really hard to say in those photographs. I certainly don't think he's anything more than a normal morph from those photos. There is always some natural variation within a color morph, so he may just be a lighter or more vivid color than usual. But, regardless of whether he is a normal morph or something else, you should appreciate him as an individual. I think a lot of reptile hobbyists get too caught up in color morphs and rare genetics, and should appreciate individual animals for their unique personalities. My sweetest crested gecko is also my least valuable in terms of aesthetics.


----------



## pitbulllady (Aug 7, 2012)

He actually does have two of the "markers" for a Yellow Belly, including that light spot on top of his head and the clear white belly with the "dotted line" pattern framing either side of the belly scales.  Without knowing his genetics, though, I'd call him a "dinker", which means he appears to have some unknown morph thing going on but until you breed him, you won't know for sure, and even then, if it's a recessive gene, it won't show up for another generation yet.

pitbulllady


----------



## lizardminion (Aug 7, 2012)

Aviara said:


> Natural lighting might help us give you a more conclusive answer. The color does look a tiny bit more vivid than is typical toward the belly area, but it's really hard to say in those photographs. I certainly don't think he's anything more than a normal morph from those photos. There is always some natural variation within a color morph, so he may just be a lighter or more vivid color than usual. But, regardless of whether he is a normal morph or something else, you should appreciate him as an individual. I think a lot of reptile hobbyists get too caught up in color morphs and rare genetics, and should appreciate individual animals for their unique personalities. My sweetest crested gecko is also my least valuable in terms of aesthetics.


Yeah, this is my viewpoint.
I'm just a little curious is all. I love these reptiles as pets and regardless of the morph, they are always very beautiful and fascinating. I don't plan on buying a morph of anything when considering my next reptile, except for striped fat tailed geckos or corn snakes. (I'd be lost when deciding between albino, okeetee, butter, or anery)
I'm always considering a ball python next and would not hesitate to adopt a healthy, normal ball python. 

Nature made them beautiful enough as it is.

(Note: This doesn't mean I dislike captive morphs)


----------



## Gaherp (Aug 8, 2012)

Sweet looking dinker, but I do not see enough for yellowbelly. Here is a site that may get you some good examples for you though.
yellow belly

Hunters guide to the yellow belly bp
yellow belly


----------



## Perentie (Aug 8, 2012)

It is a normal. Everyone asks if theirs is a morph, and the truth is they all look different. It's like looking at every single zebra and asking if they are all morphs because they all look a little bit different. Good luck with your pet rock


----------



## lizardminion (Aug 8, 2012)

Perentie said:


> It is a normal. Everyone asks if theirs is a morph, and the truth is they all look different. It's like looking at every single zebra and asking if they are all morphs because they all look a little bit different. Good luck with your pet rock


I'm not going nuts over it, or claiming to have discovered a new morph. Harmless curiosity and speculation. I don't love him any different for being a dinker, normal, or morph. In some ways, he's probably just a pretty dinker with a lighted head, and a not-so-drab-brown light color. I've just not the eyes of a breeder or expert to know any better.
He's more like a pacman frog with ADHD. He's occasionally out and about and goes crazy at feeding time. he swings his head mouth open while attacking prey and pursues his food. Too bad I have to wean him off live prey now.


----------



## jayefbe (Aug 8, 2012)

Aviara said:


> Honestly, it's hard to tell in that photograph. I will warn however, that even if you have a special morph on your hands, you should avoid breeding a snake from Petco. Only well-maintained stock from reliable breeders should be bred, and snakes from Petco certainly don't fall into that category. If he does have a unique color morph, this can make him more valuable but that fact alone should not make him breeding stock. The bloodlines, health, conformation and temperament of the snake and its parents must be taken into consideration before breeding.


What are you talking about? Breeders inbreed their animals to a ridiculous degree. Father to daughter, mother to son, siblings to each other....if anything, a captive hatched animal from a pet store should have BETTER genetic variation than anything you'll get from a reputable breeder. The only bloodlines people care about are morphs. Temperament? For a bp?

The truth is, if it's healthy it can be bred. It may not be as pretty as something from a big time bp breeder, but it's going to produce stuff just as healthy, assuming that he is also healthy (no reason to believe otherwise). 

As to the possibility of a morph, probably not. It's easy to squint your eyes and see yellow belly markers on most normals. I don't see the blushing and aberrant belly most often associated with one. 

If you (or anyone) really wants a non-normal ball python they can be had for very cheap. Hell, a male bumblebee, one of the most beautiful double gene morphs, can be bought for less than 400 bucks! That is a steal. Ball pythons morphs are very affordable now.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## cantthinkofone (Aug 15, 2012)

im no ball python person actually, though some might hate, i really don't like ball pythons. but that looks 200% normal to me. i just don't understand the concept no one is going to pay 1000 dollars for a ball python. its breeder sells to breeder. at shows i go to i have seen breeders buying from other breeders. and the inbreeding. i know some breeders inbreed all types of snakes but these ball pythons are overly inbred. and they are taking over good shows. i don't want to go to a ball python show i want to go to a reptile show. all i see any more is stand after stand of these damn ball pythons. other than my rant on my dislike for ball pythons that looks like a healthy snake and it looks to be in good hands. good luck


----------



## Alex G (Aug 18, 2012)

It's just the trend right now. Previously it was RTBs, cornsnakes, etc etc until people got bored of them or someone came out with something cool in a different species. Give it a year or so and the BP bubble will burst, making room for the next big thing in the hobby.


----------



## lizardminion (Aug 18, 2012)

Alex G said:


> It's just the trend right now. Previously it was RTBs, cornsnakes, etc etc until people got bored of them or someone came out with something cool in a different species. Give it a year or so and the BP bubble will burst, making room for the next big thing in the hobby.


Rainbow boas, right?

I think a good name for my little ball python instead of Boots would be Oddball, since he doesn't understand the concept of being a pet rock at all.
He's out and about during the day, exploring or basking, and basking or resting at night. But do juveniles grow out of this behavior? Or are they supposed to be pet rocks from the start?
I've almost lost the need to hold him since he's been an elaborate display animal.


----------



## Aviara (Aug 19, 2012)

I've found a lot of my ball python's activity levels depend on temperature. If it gets a little colder, he tends to roam more and be out in the open, perhaps looking for a heat source. When I get the cage warmed back up to his preferences, he goes back into a hide and curls up, adopting the "pet rock" attitude. Other than that, you may just have a unique specimen. Honestly, my ball python's activity levels haven't changed much as he's grown up, and he was a young hatchling when we first brought him home. Of course, he's also very slow and deliberate during handling. I've heard of ball pythons that are aggressive and very prone to biting, so there is definitely a spectrum of temperaments in this species, as in most other species of reptile and anything else. It's awesome that he's out all the time! The only time I usually get to see mine is if I get up in the middle of the night, or if he decides to soak before molting.


----------



## jayefbe (Aug 23, 2012)

Alex G said:


> It's just the trend right now. Previously it was RTBs, cornsnakes, etc etc until people got bored of them or someone came out with something cool in a different species. Give it a year or so and the BP bubble will burst, making room for the next big thing in the hobby.


It's been just a "trend" for well over a decade. Base morphs that have been around for a decade have maintained prices around 200-300 for the past 3 years. The ball python market is quite strong and will be around for a LONG time. That's what happens when you have snakes a thousand times more variable and prettier than corns and clutch sizes that very rarely reach the double digits. I've heard people say it was going to crash for five years now. Still no sign of it slowing down.


----------



## lizardminion (Aug 23, 2012)

jayefbe said:


> It's been just a "trend" for well over a decade. Base morphs that have been around for a decade have maintained prices around 200-300 for the past 3 years. The ball python market is quite strong and will be around for a LONG time. That's what happens when you have snakes a thousand times more variable and prettier than corns and clutch sizes that very rarely reach the double digits. I've heard people say it was going to crash for five years now. Still no sign of it slowing down.


Seems like the perfect cold-blooded investment.


----------



## jayefbe (Aug 24, 2012)

lizardminion said:


> Seems like the perfect cold-blooded investment.


I think they're a fairly good investment, as far as reptiles go, but they're far from a sure thing. If you want to invest your money, I'd say go for a mutual fund or bonds. An ex and I were able to make a significant return on our investment from only a handful of clutches. We produced a couple snakes that alone could've paid for everything we'd spent on snakes over two years. That's from a single clutch. However, if I was only interested in making money, then the money I put into snakes, racks, feeder rodents, electricity, and the incredible amount of time I spent cleaning poo and feeding these snakes could've resulted in a lot more money if I had done nearly anything else. I'm sure many people get into ball pythons, seeing how much these high-end snakes go for, and dream of making large sums of cash in a very short amount of time. Those people are always disappointed. A female takes at least 2, often 3, and sometimes 4 or more years to reach breedable size. Adult females rarely breed the year they are purchased as adults. The odds for the high-end 4,5,or 6-gene animal you're praying for are incredibly low. In the end, you're not going to see ANY money come in for at least 3 years. In that time, you have to buy snakes, racks, feed them up to size, and buy/build an incubator. Plus, people rarely take into account the amount of time spent caring for their animals. If someone goes into it with an intelligent plan, spends their money wisely, develops a compatible and good breeding group, it's possible to make decent money. More often then not, people lose money very slowly, or just get frustrated and sell off their entire collection at a loss. It takes incredible patience, hard work, and careful planning, but it can be done. More often than not, people come into it thinking "make money breeding snakes?! Sign me up!", and end up disappointed.


----------



## lizardminion (Aug 24, 2012)

jayefbe said:


> I think they're a fairly good investment, as far as reptiles go, but they're far from a sure thing. If you want to invest your money, I'd say go for a mutual fund or bonds. An ex and I were able to make a significant return on our investment from only a handful of clutches. We produced a couple snakes that alone could've paid for everything we'd spent on snakes over two years. That's from a single clutch. However, if I was only interested in making money, then the money I put into snakes, racks, feeder rodents, electricity, and the incredible amount of time I spent cleaning poo and feeding these snakes could've resulted in a lot more money if I had done nearly anything else. I'm sure many people get into ball pythons, seeing how much these high-end snakes go for, and dream of making large sums of cash in a very short amount of time. Those people are always disappointed. A female takes at least 2, often 3, and sometimes 4 or more years to reach breedable size. Adult females rarely breed the year they are purchased as adults. The odds for the high-end 4,5,or 6-gene animal you're praying for are incredibly low. In the end, you're not going to see ANY money come in for at least 3 years. In that time, you have to buy snakes, racks, feed them up to size, and buy/build an incubator. Plus, people rarely take into account the amount of time spent caring for their animals. If someone goes into it with an intelligent plan, spends their money wisely, develops a compatible and good breeding group, it's possible to make decent money. More often then not, people lose money very slowly, or just get frustrated and sell off their entire collection at a loss. It takes incredible patience, hard work, and careful planning, but it can be done. More often than not, people come into it thinking "make money breeding snakes?! Sign me up!", and end up disappointed.


As your first sentence pretty much sums it up. A good investment reptile, yes, but considering other more profitable investments, (non-reptile related) they're terrible. That pretty much sums it up. Reptiles are more-so a rewarding hobby and far from a profitable business.


----------



## Jmugleston (Aug 24, 2012)

Looks like a good looking normal to me.  Ball pythons are extremely variable.  Unless you bought it as something different from a reputable source, then it is most likely a normal.  By the time the WC ball pythons get to pet stores they have already been picked through multiple times by importers, breeders, jobbers, etc. to make sure anything that is extremely aberrant is taken out.  The only way to find out for sure is to breed it to another ball python and see if the odd characters are heritable.


----------

