# should non adults be allowed to keep scolopendrids?



## super-pede (Jun 19, 2010)

Specifically subspinipes morphs.I ask because I'm considering selling one to a kid who is 12 that knows quite a bit about them.This thread will decide.


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## rustym3talh3ad (Jun 19, 2010)

i personally can not say yes or no to this thread. i know a lot of adults that shouldnt keep hotter bugs. if the parents are completely ok with the idea and they are aware of the risks then i say go for it, but CYA and make sure you have something from the parents, be it a phone call, or make the parents buy it for him/her. where i work we dont even sell pokies or "hotter" T's to kids, and the person purchasing has to sign a waiver saying if you screw up and get bit its not our fault.


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## Endagr8 (Jun 19, 2010)

As always in such polls, I voted yes, because I am a competent minor that happens to be an invertebrate enthusiast. I figure that other minors are also capable of keeping such critters. 

HOWEVER, the decision depends largely upon the judgment of the child at hand. As mentioned, some adults may even lack what I consider to be qualifiers of owners of potentially dangerous species.

The most important part of owning centipedes, in regard to the safety of the owner, IMO, are the enclosure and the methods the owner uses to do cage maintenance, re-housings, etc.. Perhaps you should discuss these (if you haven't already) with the prospective child to determine whether his methods and enclosure meet your safety standards, rather than letting voters that are almost completely unaware of the degree of information he has learned about centipedes decide.


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## super-pede (Jun 19, 2010)

Endagr8 said:


> As always in such polls, I voted yes, because I am a competent minor that happens to be an invertebrate enthusiast. I figure that other minors are also capable of keeping such critters.
> 
> HOWEVER, the decision depends largely upon the judgment of the child at hand. As mentioned, some adults may even lack what I consider to be qualifiers of owners of potentially dangerous species.
> 
> The most important part of owning centipedes, in regard to the safety of the owner, IMO, are the enclosure and the methods the owner uses to do cage maintenance, re-housings, etc.. Perhaps you should discuss these (if you haven't already) with the prospective child to determine whether his methods and enclosure meet your safety standards, rather than letting voters that are almost completely unaware of the degree of information he has learned about centipedes decide.


I caught my first Scolopendrid (alternans) using the iron thumb technique when I was six years old.a year later I got my very first subspinipes.

the kid in question comes over to see my collection and helps me feed,house,rehouse,and maintain my collection at least once a week.Trust me,he knows how to take care of them.


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## rustym3talh3ad (Jun 19, 2010)

super-pede said:


> I caught my first Scolopendrid (alternans) using the iron thumb technique when I was six years old.a year later I got my very first subspinipes.
> 
> the kid in question comes over to see my collection and helps me feed,house,rehouse,and maintain my collection at least once a week.Trust me,he knows how to take care of them.


it unfortunately has nothing to do with his knowledge but his parents knowledge. if hes a local kid sit down with the rents and let them know exactly whats up and if they are cool with it then i say go for it. its irresponsible to sell ANY child ANY animal that the parents are fully aware of, especially since this could pose serious injury to the child. remember, though his interest is high and his intelligence is there, he is still a child the potential of accident is just as high.


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## super-pede (Jun 19, 2010)

rustym3talh3ad said:


> it unfortunately has nothing to do with his knowledge but his parents knowledge. if hes a local kid sit down with the rents and let them know exactly whats up and if they are cool with it then i say go for it. its irresponsible to sell ANY child ANY animal that the parents are fully aware of, especially since this could pose serious injury to the child. remember, though his interest is high and his intelligence is there, he is still a child the potential of accident is just as high.


yeah I get where you're comin from.


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## thebugfreak (Jun 19, 2010)

there is a mistake in this poll: i voted no by accident... sorry guys. i meant to vote yes.


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## Earthworm Soul (Jun 19, 2010)

*no*

Sadly, personal responsibility isn't taken very seriously in this country. Even experienced keepers make mistakes, and in the eyes of the media and unwashed populace, there is a huge difference between the 25 year old weirdo that got bit by his exotic centipede and wound up in the hospital, and the poor 12 year old that some irresponsible bug-peddler sold a dangerous animal too.

Don't do it. This hobby is already misunderstood, we need to be sure to do what we can to keep potential crap-storms off the local news.


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## Earthworm Soul (Jun 19, 2010)

*to clarify*

Don't get me wrong, Its not that I don't think a 12 year old could care for a pede, I just think the possible risks outweigh the benefits. 

It's like the reptile hobby, a seller who would sell a hot species to a minor, legally or not, would be ostracized. Our hobbies are misunderstood and our animals are feared already. We need to police ourselves, so that local governments don't decide to do it for us.


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## nissan480 (Jun 19, 2010)

I would say yes based on your statement that hes knowledgable. But the fact he is a minor changes things and would say no.

So, NO. That is a choice for his parents who have responsibility for him. Talk to them. Children dont have rights or responsibility, two things you have as a adult.


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## super-pede (Jun 19, 2010)

Earthworm Soul said:


> Sadly, personal responsibility isn't taken very seriously in this country. Even experienced keepers make mistakes, and in the eyes of the media and unwashed populace, there is a huge difference between the 25 year old weirdo that got bit by his exotic centipede and wound up in the hospital, and the poor 12 year old that some irresponsible bug-peddler sold a dangerous animal too.
> 
> Don't do it. This hobby is already misunderstood, we need to be sure to do what we can to keep potential crap-storms off the local news.


This is very true I must admit.I will probably talk to the kids parents tomorrow.They aren't bug lovers unfortunately.


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## super-pede (Jun 19, 2010)

Just to clarify, this thread is about whether non-adults as a whole and not just this one kid.


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## RBJ (Jun 19, 2010)

I think you missing a point here...Is it legal to sell any animals to people under age 18 
It isn't in my country and if something bad happens with the kid you as the seller would be to blame and you are the one who would be convicted


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## nissan480 (Jun 19, 2010)

super-pede said:


> Just to clarify, this thread is about whether non-adults as a whole and not just this one kid.


Fact IS! Regardless of this poll 

Under eighteen, you ask Mom.


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## Warren Bautista (Jun 19, 2010)

I'm 13 (14 next month) and I keep Scolopendrids. I don't see any problem with anyone keeping hazardous animals as long as they can care for it and show it proper respect.


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## Toirtis (Jun 19, 2010)

nissan480 said:


> I would say yes based on your statement that hes knowledgable. But the fact he is a minor changes things and would say no.
> 
> So, NO. That is a choice for his parents who have responsibility for him. Talk to them. Children dont have rights or responsibility, two things you have as a adult.


I agree....and bear in mind you are covering your own ass, too...the way US law works, if that kid gets bit and suffers injury, cranky parents could make your life legal hell, criminally and civilly.


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## Elytra and Antenna (Jun 19, 2010)

NO. Large scolopendra should not be sold to minors. If they can catch their own, great.




Earthworm Soul said:


> We need to police ourselves, so that local governments don't decide to do it for us.


 I am troubled by that logic, how would that have worked in the holocaust?


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## Earthworm Soul (Jun 19, 2010)

Elytra and Antenna said:


> I am troubled by that logic, how would that have worked in the holocaust?


That's an awful big jump there...

I was referring to the hobby collectively trying to be responsible for promoting a positive view of itself... I wasn't referring to anything other than that.


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## Crysta (Jun 19, 2010)

Depends on maturity level of the kiddo, and if the parents say its okay.

I am going to compare this to iguanas, because I got my first iguana when I was 10. Parents let me have it as long as I took care of it, etc, did my research, by the time i was 12 I had 4 iguanas. lol 2f, 2 1/2f, 3 1/4 and a 4 1/2. And I can tell you, my mother wasn't fond of them, and my iguanas weren't fond of her either. (nothing reptilian, or birds is lol) But they where my responsibility. 
Though she did buy the veggies. ^^ 

I must say a 4 1/2 foot iguana is more dangerous then a centipede and much more difficult to give the proper nutrients for.

As long as the parents acceptance is given, and the childs responsibility is proper, and it is CLEAR that it's the kids responsibility to feed it, and you give the parents a CLEAR idea of what would happen if the kid is bit. 

I don't really like the idea of the child starting out with a the first scolopendra you mentioned. Why don't you give him a 2 inch centipede of some smaller species, and level up as the months go by. This is great for the parents, gives them some control, and a good learning experience for the kid. 

Isn't that how it should go anyways?


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## super-pede (Jun 19, 2010)

CentipedeFreak said:


> Depends on maturity level of the kiddo, and if the parents say its okay.
> 
> I am going to compare this to iguanas, because I got my first iguana when I was 10. Parents let me have it as long as I took care of it, etc, did my research, by the time i was 12 I had 4 iguanas. lol 2f, 2 1/2f, 3 1/4 and a 4 1/2. And I can tell you, my mother wasn't fond of them, and my iguanas weren't fond of her either. (nothing reptilian, or birds is lol) But they where my responsibility.
> Though she did buy the veggies. ^^
> ...


I have already given him a cingulata(great beginner pede) and a polymorpha(great for beginners).and he has just fallen in love with one of my smaller malaysians(5-6 inches) and if the parents OK it-then it's his.


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## thebugfreak (Jun 19, 2010)

super-pede said:


> I have already given him a cingulata(great beginner pede) and a polymorpha(great for beginners).and he has just fallen in love with one of my smaller malaysians(5-6 inches) and if the parents OK it-then it's his.


i think if you want to give him a malaysian, he should know fully, and i mean fully the risks of it like what the symptoms are if you get bit, what to do if you get bit, and know that it is a strictly display only species. no prodding, poking, handling.. etc. because i think the problem here is some minors want something, but aren't aware of the risks involved and they don't know how to take care of such a hot species. 

IMO if i was to give a malaysian giant to my kid, i would first supervise him in everything he does with the malaysian, like feeding, tank maintenance, etc. and then slowly let him do things on his own until he is comfortable with it. but that's just how i would approach this.


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## Toirtis (Jun 19, 2010)

Elytra and Antenna said:


> I am troubled by that logic, how would that have worked in the holocaust?


Its sound logic...if we do not comport ourselves logically, incidents occur and people start making nasty laws.


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## H. laoticus (Jun 19, 2010)

I didn't vote because the question is too simple. 

Should non-adults be able to keep them?  It depends.

If you fixed the question and put "If his/her parents agree and understand any and all risks and have been given info on what to do in case of an emergency" then I would answer Yes.  Make them sign a waiver, perhaps.

If you say that they didn't agree, I answer, "No."

Good thing you asked, might help other hobbyists!
In fact, I'm starting to think we should have a sticky on this issue, just to inform others in the hobby.


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## Anubis77 (Jun 19, 2010)

I kept Scolopendrids as a minor, but I started off with 3 inch S. polymorpha, moved on to 6" S. polymorpha, and ended with a 7" S. subsinipes. I also kept a variety of Androctonus species and Leiurus quinquestriatus as a minor, but always with the permission of my father and always under agreement with dealers who were familiar with me.

So, like everyone else has said, it comes down to parental permission.

If you say he has experience with S. cingulata and polymorpha already and hasn't had any incidents with them, then I'd say yes in this case (with the above condition).


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## presurcukr (Jun 19, 2010)

My daughter who is 13 (8legedemily)works with me on all our T's,Scorpions and Pedes.With The permission of the minors parents. I see no reason not to give him the chance to enjoy the pede.


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## Versi*JP*Color (Jun 19, 2010)

I'm 10 turning 11 July 1st and I can take care of one.


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## Earthworm Soul (Jun 20, 2010)

In my honest opinion, It is very irresponsible to sell pedes to minors. If I was selling copperheads or rattlesnakes to a kid, most sane people will disagree with it... Why? Because, even if it wasn't illegal, it would make the herp community look like a group of loonies that have no problem selling dangerous animals to kids. 

The invert community is even less understood than the herp community. We have even less support than they do.

Doing anything to possibly compromise that is detrimental to the hobby as a whole.

Do what you want, there's nothing I can do to talk you out of it if your mind is already set, I just urge everyone to think about the fact that all of our actions matter in a hobby this misunderstood. It wouldn't take much to push local governments to push restrictions on legal inverts... just ONE incident might be enough, especially if it happened to a child.


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## nissan480 (Jun 20, 2010)

The point is that minor's are not accountable.

Meaning that the parents are responsible for what ever happens to who ever on their property. If what ever happens involves a criminal charge you as minor are putting your parents lively hood, or home at risk as well as incriminating your family.

Now, just cause there's no criminal charge doesnt mean there wont be a civil charge. civil cases revolve around monetary compensation,medical fee's as a example,loss of pay due to injury, or worst case scenario permanent damage in which you will pay for the rest of you life, or the rest of your parents life.

Sound like fun?


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## Earthworm Soul (Jun 20, 2010)

nissan480 said:


> The point is that minor's are not accountable.
> 
> Meaning that the parents are responsible for what ever happens to who ever on their property. If what ever happens involves a criminal charge you as minor are putting your parents lively hood, or home at risk as well as incriminating your family.
> 
> ...


Exactly, and, I didn't want to say it, but a lot of kids are really stupid and reckless. For every responsible 13 year old, there's a million dumb 13 year olds. Why take the risk that the kid you're selling a subspinipes to isn't going to try posing for a picture with it on his face in front of his dope My Chemical Romance poster?

That may have been a bit harsh (I've had a few whiskeys tonight, it's been a long week), but I believe my point is valid. The pros do not outweigh the cons. If you have a 13 year old that wants a pede, talk him or her into a less dangerous animal, like a red knee or whatever.

I've had 13 year olds come to me wanting to buy one of my reticulated pythons, and I either steer them towards a kingsnake or other beginner species or I simply do not do business with them. To me, risking the potential backlash is not worth the sale.

Just my two cents.


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## Hilikus311 (Jun 20, 2010)

rustym3talh3ad said:


> i personally can not say yes or no to this thread. i know a lot of adults that shouldnt keep hotter bugs. if the parents are completely ok with the idea and they are aware of the risks then i say go for it, but CYA and make sure you have something from the parents, be it a phone call, or make the parents buy it for him/her. where i work we dont even sell pokies or "hotter" T's to kids, and the person purchasing has to sign a waiver saying if you screw up and get bit its not our fault.


Hmmm. . . would it be possible to get a copy of your waiver?  I run a store and would like to reference something if not just completely use yours if it applies.  Thanks and I look forward to hearing from you via PM or on here:clap:


oh, and my vote is NO sorry, no if's and's or but's about it.


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## Terry D (Jun 20, 2010)

Hey all. I voted yes, with parental consent, that is. UNLESS it's smallara of course! Haaaaaah, just ribbin' ya, duude  Somewhat mentioned in a previous post but worded a little differently- Scary as it may seem, many youngsters are probably more responsible than some adults on this board.....that's not saying much for myself with recent, although not even "warm" escapees. 

Terry


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## Rick McJimsey (Jun 20, 2010)

LOL @ comparing selling copperheads/rattlers to kids to selling Scolopendrids to kids.
I voted yes. I do think that non-adults should be able keep Scolopendrids. I just can't picture an 8 or 9 year old playing with an S.subspinipes..


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## Earthworm Soul (Jun 20, 2010)

Rick McJimsey said:


> LOL @ comparing selling copperheads/rattlers to kids to selling Scolopendrids to kids.
> I voted yes. I do think that non-adults should be able keep Scolopendrids. I just can't picture an 8 or 9 year old playing with an S.subspinipes..


I don't see the comparison of selling a copperhead to a kid and selling a subspinipes to a kid as being all that different. Both species have an incredibly small chance of being lethal, but both could easily require medical attention. And, in the event that the animal had been sold to the child, both would likely end up on the local news.

If you can't picture a 9 year old doing something stupid that they saw online themselves, I really don't think you have met many 9 year olds. I read a news article about a kid that died after letting his friends bury him in a sandbox so he could imitate a cartoon character. Kids can be dumb as hell.


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## Rick McJimsey (Jun 20, 2010)

Earthworm Soul said:


> I don't see the comparison of selling a copperhead to a kid and selling a subspinipes to a kid as being all that different. Both species have an incredibly small chance of being lethal, but both could easily require medical attention. And, in the event that the animal had been sold to the child, both would likely end up on the local news.
> 
> If you can't picture a 9 year old doing something they saw online themselves, I really don't think you have met many 9 year olds. I read a news article about a kid that died after letting his friends bury him in a sandbox so he could imitate a cartoon character. Kids can be dumb as hell.


A kid would have to go out of his way to get a semi-potent Scolopendrid (ie subspinipes); they aren't native to any part of the continental US. Copperheads, on the other hand, are. I'm sure there are plenty of people catching and selling various native wildlife to anyone who's got the cash.
The main place where I can see a child buying a Scolopendrid is at a reptile show, and I just can't see anyone selling _anything_ to a 4' child. I'm sure there's some exception, though.

I'd also have to agree with the fact that I know several non-adults keeping Scolopendrids (and hot sp.) that are *significantly* more mature, and responsible than the majority of the people I see on here, and other forums.


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## Earthworm Soul (Jun 20, 2010)

Rick McJimsey said:


> A kid would have to go out of his way to get a semi-potent Scolopendrid (ie subspinipes); they aren't native to any part of the continental US. Copperheads, on the other hand, are. I'm sure there are plenty of people catching and selling various native wildlife to anyone who's got the cash.
> The main place where I can see a child buying a Scolopendrid is at a reptile show, and I just can't see anyone selling _anything_ to a 4' child. I'm sure there's some exception, though.
> 
> I'd also have to agree with the fact that I know several non-adults keeping Scolopendrids (and hot sp.) that are *significantly* more mature, and responsible than the majority of the people I see on here, and other forums.


I can buy subspinipes at my LPS... They're certainly not difficult to come by. They're available on every major invert dealer's site. I don't understand what you're trying to say. This debate has nothing to do with how readily available the animals are, merely the ethics of selling them to children.

I know kids myself that could probably keep a scolopendra very responsibly, but that doesn't matter... they're still minors, and in the event of an accident, it will still look poorly on the hobby. 

If a 25 year old gets bit and ends up in the hospital, no one really cares too much.... if a 10 year old gets bit and ends up in the hospital, all it takes is a slow news day to create "Are online bug peddlers selling YOUR kids KILLER bugs? News at 7!" headlines. Parents get outraged, bans get imposed... etc.  

If the kid can't wait til they're an adult to have a scolopendra, then, in my opinion, they're not mature enough to have one anyway.


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## kripp_keeper (Jun 20, 2010)

*No.*

I don't believe any animal should be sold to children other then some fish. If the parents wish to buy it and make it a "family pet" that fine, but I don't believe most children have the capacity to care animals. Its a lot to keep up with at 12, and the dangers are fairly high. I know many on here have said they owned pets at a early age, and so did I. Most things my parents helped with and what they didn't, didn't always work out well. If you do sell it to him I think he needs to understand that you are selling it to his parents, and they have control over the decisions regarding it.


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## Toirtis (Jun 20, 2010)

kripp_keeper said:


> I don't believe any animal should be sold to children other then some fish.


It is actually law in some places (I believe England is one of them) that live animals cannot be sold to any minor. Some shops in areas without such a law have adopted this as a policy...it was my policy at the store I owned, and at the stores I have managed.


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## super-pede (Jun 20, 2010)

Earthworm Soul said:


> I can buy subspinipes at my LPS... They're certainly not difficult to come by. They're available on every major invert dealer's site.


Swifts doesn't carry them.Paul doesn't carry them(I wish he would).Captive Inverts doesn't carry them.


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## Earthworm Soul (Jun 20, 2010)

super-pede said:


> Swifts doesn't carry them.Paul doesn't carry them(I wish he would).Captive Inverts doesn't carry them.


Be that as it may, they aren't hard to come by.

Don't get me wrong, In a perfect world where everybody takes responsibility for their own actions, I wouldn't have any problem with it so long as the parents gave permission. Unfortunately, we live in a world where that is not always the case. 

It is simply not worth the risk.


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## micheldied (Jun 21, 2010)

I don't see the problem with it... Anyone with the right knowledge should be able to.
As for getting bit, anyone could get bit, old or young.
I'm 16, and I've been keeping various animals since I was 6.
Very rarely have I ever screwed up.


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## Travis K (Jun 21, 2010)

super-pede said:


> Trust me,he knows how to take care of them.


There is your answer.


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## the toe cutter (Jun 21, 2010)

*Absolutely not*

You will all wake up from your quiet little dark invert corner one day with local headlines that scream something like "Child dies from (insert invert here) sting/bite, Local parents outraged". And then the hell that is raining down upon the reptile industry from PETA and the dreaded HSUS will rear its huge ugly head your way and EVERY MONTH you will have the pleasure of calling your representative or signing some opposition from PIJAC or USARK. And they are getting spread thin as it is! So go ahead sell your hots to "responsible" minors and see what happens. Remember they dont look at how hot the animals are, they look at if they are venomous or not, which would be just about all T's, scorps, and pedes, am I right? They don't even care about the truth or the circumstances led to it, just that it happened. And HSUS wont be satisfied with , "well we will just increase the buyers age limitations" Oh No! They will cry for straight out bans. So yeah again, have fun and shoot, why doesn't someone get that kids address and heck we can all send him some awesome stuff! I have some P. Transvaals and a B. jacksoni, I'll even send the kid my adult female H minax as a bonus! With this crowd, your day of reckoning is definately coming soon! Enjoy


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## the toe cutter (Jun 21, 2010)

And by the way it looks like alot of the people that are saying what a wonderful idea it is to sell hots to kids are underage. Just think about what it is you are doing, or go ahead and feed the fire.


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## micheldied (Jun 22, 2010)

It's not a wonderful idea, and certainly not a good idea to tell every kid to buy one, but if one is responsible and mature enough, I don't see the problem.


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## Earthworm Soul (Jun 22, 2010)

micheldied said:


> It's not a wonderful idea, and certainly not a good idea to tell every kid to buy one, but if one is responsible and mature enough, I don't see the problem.


If you can't see the potential problem of some kid getting hospitalized and angry parents hitting the news, I really don't know what to tell you.

The Toe Cutter is correct. The invert hobby slides under the radar because it's not as popular as the herp hobby yet, but it's growing fast. A few children getting sent to the hospital is a fantastic way to make the government step in and regulate the hobby like it does for herps.

It's frustrating to see so many invert enthusiasts who don't seem to have the common sense to see how their actions can effect the entire hobby. If you care about the hobby and want to do whats best for it, don't sell dangerous animals to children. I can't believe this is even a debate.


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## micheldied (Jun 22, 2010)

Earthworm Soul said:


> If you can't see the potential problem of some kid getting hospitalized and angry parents hitting the news, I really don't know what to tell you.
> 
> The Toe Cutter is correct. The invert hobby slides under the radar because it's not as popular as the herp hobby yet, but it's growing fast. A few children getting sent to the hospital is a fantastic way to make the government step in and regulate the hobby like it does for herps.
> 
> It's frustrating to see so many invert enthusiasts who don't seem to have the common sense to see how their actions can effect the entire hobby. If you care about the hobby and want to do whats best for it, don't sell dangerous animals to children. I can't believe this is even a debate.


And I can understand that, but in my own opinion, that's all the kid's fault and not the hobby's, or the sellers.


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## the toe cutter (Jun 22, 2010)

Not in the eyes of the HSUS or the general public. It is the hobbies fault and whoever sold the animal to said "child". Wake up, this shouldn'e even be an issue that needs to be brought up.


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## kripp_keeper (Jun 22, 2010)

micheldied said:


> And I can understand that, but in my own opinion, that's all the kid's fault and not the hobby's, or the sellers.


If the child is injured it would be the sellers fault, because he sold it to a minor. Its the sellers responsibility to determine the maturity of someone when selling them a dangerous item. If he makes a judgment call and its wrong it will be entirely his fault if the child is hurt. A big problem is that children are impressionable and the way this child acts around the centipede can not determine how well he will take care of it, because he can act completely different when he is alone. If I were to take out my tarantula with my son standing right beside me he would not be afraid at all, but if I put it on the ground and left the room he would get scared. This kid might act completely different when he has it alone in his room.



Yes the hobby might be hurt, but the child or the centipede could be hurt a lot more. I don't own centipedes(my wife is scared of them), but from what I've heard they have very painful venom.


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## micheldied (Jun 22, 2010)

the toe cutter said:


> Not in the eyes of the HSUS or the general public. It is the hobbies fault and whoever sold the animal to said "child". Wake up, this shouldn'e even be an issue that needs to be brought up.





kripp_keeper said:


> If the child is injured it would be the sellers fault, because he sold it to a minor. Its the sellers responsibility to determine the maturity of someone when selling them a dangerous item. If he makes a judgment call and its wrong it will be entirely his fault if the child is hurt. A big problem is that children are impressionable and the way this child acts around the centipede can not determine how well he will take care of it, because he can act completely different when he is alone. If I were to take out my tarantula with my son standing right beside me he would not be afraid at all, but if I put it on the ground and left the room he would get scared. This kid might act completely different when he has it alone in his room.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes the hobby might be hurt, but the child or the centipede could be hurt a lot more. I don't own centipedes(my wife is scared of them), but from what I've heard they have very painful venom.


You both are right.
I wish that the public wasn't so.....:wall:


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## Mister Internet (Jun 22, 2010)

Rick McJimsey said:


> A kid would have to go out of his way to get a semi-potent Scolopendrid (ie subspinipes); they aren't native to any part of the continental US. Copperheads, on the other hand, are. I'm sure there are plenty of people catching and selling various native wildlife to anyone who's got the cash.
> The main place where I can see a child buying a Scolopendrid is at a reptile show, and I just can't see anyone selling _anything_ to a 4' child. I'm sure there's some exception, though.
> 
> I'd also have to agree with the fact that I know several non-adults keeping Scolopendrids (and hot sp.) that are *significantly* more mature, and responsible than the majority of the people I see on here, and other forums.


You have a really strange view of "semi-potent" ... I would consider _S. alternans_ and _S. heros_ both to be capable of inflicting a bite that would make you have a bad day.  Maybe not for pain freaks like cacoseraph or anything, but for "normal" people, especially kids.  Those pedes get a stocky 8" long when full grown and are certainly not "friendly", so I don't get what you're trying to say here.  It's like people that say that pokies, psalmos, and the like are automatically the most medically significant tarantulas in any given situation... just because their venom is more potent doesn't mean that tarantulas with less potent venom are "more painless", necessarily.

Understand this: you can argue "medically-significant" until the cows come home, but the most HOBBY-SIGNIFICANT centipede bite is ANY centipede that bites a 12 year old that you sold them, and it gets picked up by Yahoo News on a slow day.  Worth it for $25?  No.

That being said... if the child is truly capable, and their parents are on board... well, it's perfectly legal to sell people over 18 a centipede if they live where it's legal to own one.  Most parents of minor children are over 18... you could always sell it to them.  If they decide it's really the child's pet after the fact, not your problem.  Of course, I could NEVER in good conscience do this with parents who were ignorant of how to maintain/care for centipedes, or worse yet, were bug haters.  I would only do this where it's a "bug family", for lack of a better term.

But in the end, no.  I think it's a bad idea to put these animals in the hands of minors for many reasons.  It's not an indictment of their maturity level... I know many 12 year-olds who could drive a car, and I know many 30 year-olds who should never have been allowed to drive in the first place.  That's not the point.  The point is that our hobby, by and large, squeaks by under the radar of most state and federal law... there have not been sufficient "watershed events" to lead to outright bannings at the state and national level of most of the bugs we love to keep.  Putting something like this in the hands of minors could well lead to such an event...

It happened to millipedes, it happened to phasmids... and if someone thinks that they can't just as easily blanket-ban centipedes because they are deemed too dangerous to have around children, because children were sold them, then that someone would be an idiot.

So, all things considered, no.  I consider myself a consummate keeper of centipedes, I've kept dozens successfully over the years, not one escape, not one bite... not even any close calls.  Even I, with all my experience, would NEVER EVER give my minor child sole responsibility for a large centipede.  They will never be allowed in the bug room without my presence, and they will never be allowed to do cage work, even in my presence.  Some things are just too important to be cavalier with.

So, if keeping centipedes is important to everyone reading, then I suggest you not be cavalier with the privilege, hmm?


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## What (Jun 22, 2010)

Mister Internet said:


> I would consider _S. alternans_ and _S. heros_ both to be capable of inflicting a bite that would make you have a bad day.  Maybe not for pain freaks like cacoseraph or anything, but for "normal" people, especially kids.


S. alternans actually hospitalized an unnamed adult member of SCABIES... A "mild" allergic reaction plus the effects of the venom in the body ended w/ him being in a *very* bad way...911 was called...(he is fine now and was only there for 3-4hrs.)


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## Travis K (Jun 22, 2010)

Too bad I can't withdraw my vote....

Upon further introspection I have to concede that Minors should not be allowed to purchase centipedes, IMO.  I do not like the idea of my own children getting bit by a pede.  Though I feel there are some teens out there that with adult approval are very capable of keeping these beautiful creatures.  That being said, the sale should be to said adult/parent and in adult/parents name.


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## zonbonzovi (Jun 22, 2010)

There's a blanket ban on millipedes?  Just WC & imported Archispirostreptus giga, I thought.:? (frantically scans area, hides millipedes).  Native phasmids?  Check your state laws for that.    

Kevin, I think I read an account of that bite in an online med. journal.(unless it was very recent?)

This is all easily solved with a legal waiver form, ID required from the signer.  Put the onus on the parent.


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## kripp_keeper (Jun 22, 2010)

zonbonzovi said:


> There's a blanket ban on millipedes?  Just WC & imported Archispirostreptus giga, I thought.:? (frantically scans area, hides millipedes).  Native phasmids?  Check your state laws for that.
> 
> Kevin, I think I read an account of that bite in an online med. journal.(unless it was very recent?)
> 
> This is all easily solved with a legal waiver form, ID required from the signer.  Put the onus on the parent.


Yes because making people sign waivers is going to help the hobby.


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## zonbonzovi (Jun 22, 2010)

"If you do sell it to him I think he needs to understand that you are selling it to his parents, and they have control over the decisions regarding it."

Thus, the waiver and therefore, legal recourse, should said parents decide to take legal action.  It's interesting how one's attitude is altered when one is required to sign a legal document.


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## What (Jun 22, 2010)

zonbonzovi said:


> Kevin, I think I read an account of that bite in an online med. journal.(unless it was very recent?)


I doubt it was in any journals, all that was really done was a very large dose of IV benadryl by the EMTs and some pain meds when he got to the ER. I believe he said the staff said he was close to being in a coma when he got there, though...(It was September 08.)


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## Mister Internet (Jun 22, 2010)

zonbonzovi said:


> There's a blanket ban on millipedes?  Just WC & imported Archispirostreptus giga, I thought.:? (frantically scans area, hides millipedes).  Native phasmids?  Check your state laws for that.


Right.  In much the same way that native _Lithobius_ and (well, NOW native) _Scutigera_ species wouldn't be affected by a blanket Scolopendrid ban... it was to prove a point, no reason to get hung up on the details.


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## the toe cutter (Jun 23, 2010)

*No*

Wow, I guess the yeas have it! Its cool, I guess the hots I have may get grandfathered in when that time comes....SOON. An AB admin even warned you, but I suppose all of you here are just much more incredibly brilliant and so extremely knowledgeable that you have it all figured out right? Well I dont know about you guys, but hell I'm satisfied with the reasoning and flawless logic here! Things like this is why I really want to move out of the country, its rather embarassing honestly. And exactly why we should bump up the voting age to 25. Thats actually the average age when the human brain stops its developmental process and becomes stable. Cheers!


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## zonbonzovi (Jun 23, 2010)

I'm pretty sure we have a lock on what your opinion is at this point, but thanks for attempting to belittle everyone elses 

One of the hallmarks of a democracy is having the ability to voice your disagreement without the imperial hand of whomever it may be...military juntas, oligarchs and yes, even mods, from stifling that voice- wherever you choose to move to, I hope you'll remember that.


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## l.MetalHead.l (Jun 24, 2010)

I think they should be allowed to be sold to kids. Why? Just because someone is 18 does not mean that they are responsible. Lots of adults buy things for status value and I'm sure many have bought tarantulas for that reason. Alcohol is sold to people over 19, but that doesn't mean people are responsible (hence all the alcoholics). I'm not saying 4 year olds should be keeping 13" centipedes. But i don't see why a mature educated 16 year old should be denied a pet based on his age. Besides, lots of families have dogs such as German Shepperds which on a statistical basis are known for attacks. Kids infact are left alone with these animals that are basically the size of wolves. The right kid should definetly be allowed these pets.


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## Earthworm Soul (Jun 24, 2010)

l.MetalHead.l said:


> I think they should be allowed to be sold to kids. Why? Just because someone is 18 does not mean that they are responsible. Lots of adults buy things for status value and I'm sure many have bought tarantulas for that reason. Alcohol is sold to people over 19, but that doesn't mean people are responsible (hence all the alcoholics). I'm not saying 4 year olds should be keeping 13" centipedes. But i don't see why a mature educated 16 year old should be denied a pet based on his age. Besides, lots of families have dogs such as German Shepperds which on a statistical basis are known for attacks. Kids infact are left alone with these animals that are basically the size of wolves. The right kid should definetly be allowed these pets.


Because they're not legally adults. That's why.


This is a depressing thread.


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## ArachnoYak (Jun 24, 2010)

I can't believe so many people voted yes already.  The answer is a resounding no.  It's not about whether they're responsible enough or not as I'm sure there are some that very well may be, but then only with full parental involvement.  It's about liability and possible negative publicity that could harm the hobby should an accident occur.  Don't leave it up to this poll to decide the case for you, common sense would dictate that you do not make this sale.


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## kripp_keeper (Jun 24, 2010)

l.MetalHead.l said:


> I think they should be allowed to be sold to kids. Why? Just because someone is 18 does not mean that they are responsible. Lots of adults buy things for status value and I'm sure many have bought tarantulas for that reason. Alcohol is sold to people over 19, but that doesn't mean people are responsible (hence all the alcoholics). I'm not saying 4 year olds should be keeping 13" centipedes. But i don't see why a mature educated 16 year old should be denied a pet based on his age. Besides, lots of families have dogs such as German Shepperds which on a statistical basis are known for attacks. Kids infact are left alone with these animals that are basically the size of wolves. The right kid should definetly be allowed these pets.


Yes lots of *families* own German shepherds, but do you know of a 12 year old that owns one alone? The problem is dogs become attached to its "masters", and most likely wont attack a child its raised with if the child doesn't give it a reason to. Even if the dog did the parents who purchased the dog would be responsible. A centipede will attack its owner with out provocation. Its far from a comparable situation. Also many of us here said selling it to the parents would be fine if they had proper knowledge on how to care for it. I have no issue with it being a family pet, and the parents being the primary care givers with the child helping.


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## RBJ (Jun 24, 2010)

The trouble with the todays youth is that they dont like rules and wont take no for an answer.Therefor it must be up to the adults keepers to be responsible and take the necessary precautions to avoid things gettin worse than it already are,I'm thinking of the regulations/rules made to our hobby.
It wont be necassary for an underage kid to get bid.All it takes is an adult, who isn't responsibilly, to go and sell something venomous to a child without he/her parants knowing about it.And *when* they do,they could report it to the police and some newspapers grab that and make a big fuzz out of it.
I bet you, then there would be taking further steps in regulation for what is allowed for common peoble to keep,as they are obvious not following the laws and should therefor not be allowed these animals aswell...
Go think about it guys.Its not about underages people could or couldn't take properly care of an inverts.It's about the adult invertkeepers responsabillity for them to sell any venomous animals to underages without there parants knowledge.
I would get really pissed if anyone sold an animal to my kids (if I had one) without my knowledge.


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## PhobeToPhile (Jun 24, 2010)

You know, I voted no for a simple reason; liability. Would you seel a pit viper to a minor? If the answer is "yes", then you have serious thinking to do. Even if the viper isn't lethal, the ensuing media crapstorm will lead to very heavy regulation of the hobby. Laws passed during such crapstorms will, invariably, be far harsher than if the same law was passed without the crapstorm taking place. Now, subsnipes is a "hot" species of pede. The SAME LOGIC applies here as in selling the snake. It's a risk that the kid can decide to take...if they are of age of majority, at which point the consequences of their decisions are theirs and theirs alone.


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## PsychoSpider (Jun 24, 2010)

The problem is yes, like everyone else is saying, liability.  The local exotics store doesn't sell pedes, some scorps, and some t's to minors because of the liability.  One more thing to say to people in this thread: exaggerate much?


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## l.MetalHead.l (Jun 24, 2010)

kripp_keeper said:


> Yes lots of *families* own German shepherds, but do you know of a 12 year old that owns one alone? The problem is dogs become attached to its "masters", and most likely wont attack a child its raised with if the child doesn't give it a reason to. Even if the dog did the parents who purchased the dog would be responsible. A centipede will attack its owner with out provocation. Its far from a comparable situation. Also many of us here said selling it to the parents would be fine if they had proper knowledge on how to care for it. I have no issue with it being a family pet, and the parents being the primary care givers with the child helping.


Weather its a family pet or not is irrelevant to the situation. I personally have been attacked by a German Shepperd and a dalmatian, both of which were family pets. A centipede will attack its owner regardless, but on the bright side, centipedes if cared for properly are in an aquarium and cannot escape. Dogs on the other hand are free to roam. Lots of families leave babes alone at times in rooms with family dogs. Regardless of the "bonding experience" I would trust no dog capable of eating a child. In my area there is actually a new by-law that tarantulas cannot be sold in the northern end of the gta or something of the like. I don't know what the exact law states but reptilia, a large reptile dealer in my area is no longer allowed to sell it's tarantulas and scorpions. I think this is because tarantulas and scorpions have a reputation of being creatures the public is afraid of. Dogs on the other hand are socially accepted as family animals (which is fine.) But i betcha more dogs have killed/done more damage to their owners statistically than any centipede. Besides, centipedes are a very small hobby, it's extremely unlikely that one will ever see one in a store and buy it on impulse. In fact I have never seen one in stores. To the best of my knowledge most people get them from breeders or reptile expos and such. Therefore that shows that one must be interested enough to find one in the first place and therefore probably has a bit of education behind them. I think that because they are hard to get and that people have to search for them, regardless of weather you are 15 or 65, the buyer would still have to be slightly educated in order to obtain them. Scary enough, any moron can get easy access a dog, even an abused dog. 

After reading more posts it seems as though many people are conserned about "liability." Liability seems to be a very wierd perspective to look at, I really don't care who would be responsible, be it the seller, the buyer, the parents for allowing a child to get one, a bite is a bite, regardless of whos fault it is. We should focus more on how to properly educate people on how not to get bit, what to do when one is bit. I think a youth should be allowed to purchase one of these animals if they prove to the seller that they are educated enough to handle the animal. and i think that THAT SHOULD BE THE SAME FOR ADULTS TO. Just because someone is 18, it does not mean that they are educated in what they purchase. I think anyone who owns a "dangerous" animal should prove there knowledge in the subject before they get one. Regardless of theyre age.


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## kripp_keeper (Jun 24, 2010)

l.MetalHead.l said:


> Weather its a family pet or not is irrelevant to the situation. I personally have been attacked by a German Shepperd and a dalmatian, both of which were family pets. A centipede will attack its owner regardless, but on the bright side, centipedes if cared for properly are in an aquarium and cannot escape. Dogs on the other hand are free to roam. Lots of families leave babes alone at times in rooms with family dogs. Regardless of the "bonding experience" I would trust no dog capable of eating a child. In my area there is actually a new by-law that tarantulas cannot be sold in the northern end of the gta or something of the like. I don't know what the exact law states but reptilia, a large reptile dealer in my area is no longer allowed to sell it's tarantulas and scorpions. I think this is because tarantulas and scorpions have a reputation of being creatures the public is afraid of. Dogs on the other hand are socially accepted as family animals (which is fine.)* But i betcha more dogs have killed/done more damage to their owners statistically than any centipede.* Besides, centipedes are a very small hobby, it's extremely unlikely that one will ever see one in a store and buy it on impulse. In fact I have never seen one in stores. To the best of my knowledge most people get them from breeders or reptile expos and such. Therefore that shows that one must be interested enough to find one in the first place and therefore probably has a bit of education behind them. I think that because they are hard to get and that people have to search for them, regardless of weather you are 15 or 65, the buyer would still have to be slightly educated in order to obtain them. Scary enough, any moron can get easy access a dog, even an abused dog.
> 
> After reading more posts it seems as though many people are conserned about "liability." Liability seems to be a very wierd perspective to look at, I really don't care who would be responsible, be it the seller, the buyer, the parents for allowing a child to get one, a bite is a bite, regardless of whos fault it is. We should focus more on how to properly educate people on how not to get bit, what to do when one is bit. I think a youth should be allowed to purchase one of these animals if they prove to the seller that they are educated enough to handle the animal. and i think that THAT SHOULD BE THE SAME FOR ADULTS TO. Just because someone is 18, it does not mean that they are educated in what they purchase. I think anyone who owns a "dangerous" animal should prove there knowledge in the subject before they get one. Regardless of theyre age.


You are correct that dogs have a higher statistic for harming their owners, so why don't we keep it that way by being responsible and selling to adults. You keep comparing the invert hobby to the dog hobby, and I personally don't want the hobby I love to turn into what the reptile or dog hobby is now. You can only have 2 dogs here over 3 or 6 months of age , and you have to pay to register your dogs. That registration fee goes up for dog known to be more aggressive. I  don't want to have to pay $300 per OW T and be limited to 3 tarantulas over a certain size. This child is 12 years old getting a venomous centipede with parents who might not have a clue about how to deal with it. There is a massive difference between headlines about dog bites and a headline about a 12 year old hospitalize because of a centipede. If this kid is hospitalized over a bite it will cause a major reaction. From insurance being denied to people being refused more often when trying to rent homes. That is something that can affect hobbies nation wide. The way the government is in the states now they would love a chance to say they are making kids safe by banning "dangerous insects". If my son was 12, and wanted a tarantula I would have no issue getting him one, but I would be the primary care giver. Yes he would be able to help with feeding. Yes I would show him how to properly care for it. Never would I let him do anything with out me being right there, or let him have it in his room at 12 years old. As a parent I can tell you if I didn't know anything about the hobby, and my son was seriously injured from a centipede he was sold I would be furious. I would be asking the guy who sold it to him "why didn't you say this could hurt him so bad", and I would be blaming the seller completely. When you step into parents not knowing about the hobby, and the care that is required that is dangerous for everyone in the united states that is in this hobby.


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## Bigboy (Jun 24, 2010)

Is this even a serious question?


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## kripp_keeper (Jun 24, 2010)

Is this what you want a 12 year old to feel? Your own words.


super-pede said:


> Don't remember how many times I've been bit.
> last bite I was tagged on the thumb(base) by an 8 incher.Felt like I had just chiseled my thumb off at first, the pain got really bad as it spread up my arm.Swelling was bad ,almost my entire arm was swollen to about x3 of it's original size.Boneache and a major migraine ensued for the 3 days after the first bite.


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## l.MetalHead.l (Jun 24, 2010)

kripp_keeper said:


> You are correct that dogs have a higher statistic for harming their owners, so why don't we keep it that way by being responsible and selling to adults. You keep comparing the invert hobby to the dog hobby, and I personally don't want the hobby I love to turn into what the reptile or dog hobby is now. You can only have 2 dogs here over 3 or 6 months of age , and you have to pay to register your dogs. That registration fee goes up for dog known to be more aggressive. I  don't want to have to pay $300 per OW T and be limited to 3 tarantulas over a certain size. This child is 12 years old getting a venomous centipede with parents who might not have a clue about how to deal with it. There is a massive difference between headlines about dog bites and a headline about a 12 year old hospitalize because of a centipede. If this kid is hospitalized over a bite it will cause a major reaction. From insurance being denied to people being refused more often when trying to rent homes. That is something that can affect hobbies nation wide. The way the government is in the states now they would love a chance to say they are making kids safe by banning "dangerous insects". If my son was 12, and wanted a tarantula I would have no issue getting him one, but I would be the primary care giver. Yes he would be able to help with feeding. Yes I would show him how to properly care for it. Never would I let him do anything with out me being right there, or let him have it in his room at 12 years old. As a parent I can tell you if I didn't know anything about the hobby, and my son was seriously injured from a centipede he was sold I would be furious. I would be asking the guy who sold it to him "why didn't you say this could hurt him so bad", and I would be blaming the seller completely. When you step into parents not knowing about the hobby, and the care that is required that is dangerous for everyone in the united states that is in this hobby.


Hm, very interesting post. I see your point about a 12 year old for sure. I was thinking more to do with 15-17 year olds. I dought though any 12 year old would have access to buying a scolopendra without parent supervision anyways. By saying though you "be responsible and sell to adults" assumes that adults are responsible. They are more responsible than a 12 year old kid, I'm not trying to argue that. But a interested educated young adult should not be barred off. I see your point of the 12 year old going to a hospital over a centipede bite, and i do agree 100%, that could be detrimental to the hobby. I feal the government is always trying to ban things that may have a slight danger. It's becoming very "Nanny like." That really sucks about dog registration fees. I live in Ontario and in my area my mother had to register her dog in case it got loose. It costs money and it is a 4.5 pound toy Pomeranian. Hell, we have to pay for licenses to go fishing yet there is millions of gallons of oil flowing into the sea. Life is unfair. I wouldn't want to see a interested youth being barred of from the hobby by the government and liability problems, but on the same token i definitely see your point where it would be detrimental for our hobby to be ruined or brought into public light over a bite to a child that could have easily been prevented.


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## kripp_keeper (Jun 24, 2010)

l.MetalHead.l said:


> Hm, very interesting post. I see your point about a 12 year old for sure. I was thinking more to do with 15-17 year olds. *I dought though any 12 year old would have access to buying a scolopendra without parent supervision anyways.* By saying though you "be responsible and sell to adults" assumes that adults are responsible. They are more responsible than a 12 year old kid, I'm not trying to argue that. But a interested educated young adult should not be barred off. I see your point of the 12 year old going to a hospital over a centipede bite, and i do agree 100%, that could be detrimental to the hobby. I feal the government is always trying to ban things that may have a slight danger. It's becoming very "Nanny like." That really sucks about dog registration fees. I live in Ontario and in my area my mother had to register her dog in case it got loose. It costs money and it is a 4.5 pound toy Pomeranian. Hell, we have to pay for licenses to go fishing yet there is millions of gallons of oil flowing into the sea. Life is unfair. I wouldn't want to see a interested youth being barred of from the hobby by the government and liability problems, but on the same token i definitely see your point where it would be detrimental for our hobby to be ruined or brought into public light over a bite to a child that could have easily been prevented.





super-pede said:


> Specifically subspinipes morphs.I ask because I'm considering selling one to a kid who is 12 that knows quite a bit about them.This thread will decide.



This thread is specifically about selling to a 12 year old, and I doubt this 12 year old is really telling his parents how venomous it really is. Just because this kid shows responsibility in front of S-P(the seller) doesn't mean he will when he has it alone in his room.


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## l.MetalHead.l (Jun 24, 2010)

kripp_keeper said:


> This thread is specifically about selling to a 12 year old, and I doubt this 12 year old is really telling his parents how venomous it really is. Just because this kid shows responsibility in front of S-P(the seller) doesn't mean he will when he has it alone in his room.


I thought it was about if non adults should be allowed to keep scolopendrids. But okay, I say, tell the kid to bring in his parents to purchase it for him.


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## CAK (Jun 24, 2010)

Earthworm Soul said:


> Because they're not legally adults. That's why.
> 
> 
> This is a depressing thread.


I agree with you Jay!

Same result, but different approach...  Why don't we sell cigarettes to minors?  Why don't we sell booze to minors?


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## l.MetalHead.l (Jun 24, 2010)

CAK said:


> I agree with you Jay!
> 
> Same result, but different approach...  Why don't we sell cigarettes to minors?  Why don't we sell booze to minors?


We don't. But we sell them vitamin water, pop, and fast food instead


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## CAK (Jun 24, 2010)

l.MetalHead.l said:


> We don't. But we sell them vitamin water, pop, and fast food instead


Toothless and chubby!  But at least they aren't drunk!


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## Reclusive Duck (Jun 24, 2010)

*No, no, and finally....No!!*

I really don't think it's a good idea for someone under 18 to keep scolopendrids. 

I would just like to make it clear that I have no doubt that there are many people here under 18 here who love their pedes and act responsibly and are probably more mature (and knowledgable for that matter) than most adults.

But it must also be considered that some scolopendrids are dangerous, and even a strong, fit adult man can expect a trip to hospital if he has an allergic reaction to a bite. Imagine how much more serious an allergic reaction would be if it were a child, I just don't see how it's worth the risk. Regardless of how safe or careful we like to think we are the fact still remains that accidents do happen.

What worries me in this particular instance is that the OP stated that the parents did not like inverts, therefore it would be just the child in charge of a potentially dangerous animal, where's the sense in that? At some point he will have to come into relatively close contact with the pede, feeding, mateinence etc. It doesn't matter how responsible he is, or how careful, there's still a risk, albeit a small risk, of him getting seriously hurt

Suppose he did get bitten, common sense would tell you that if he was in charge then it would be his responsibility if he were bitten. Yet we all know how precious little common sense there is these days. Here in Britain (and i'm going to assume that the US is no different here) if a child acts irresponsibly then every excuse possible is used to absolve that child from blame. The current mindset appears to be that no matter what, a child cannot be held responsible for his or her actions, therefore someone else must be to blame irrespective of what common sense would tell you. Who would be to blame in this case? The parents? Fat chance! They'd just deny any responsibility and claim they had no idea that their sons little creepy crawly was so dangerous. It doesn't take a genius to see where the blame would lie, the evil nasty man who sold the little darling the centipede in the first place. If an accident were to happen I GUARANTEE that's how the media would portray it. Then we can all wave goodbye to keeping pedes for good.

I'd just like to make it clear again that i'm not trying to offend any under 18's here who keep pedes. I fully accept that there are just as many irresponsible adults, probably more actually, as there are children. And i'm also sure that there are many children who keep these with no problems whatsoever and do so with maturity. It's not the children who worry me, it's the do-gooders and the faceless people in authority who worry me.


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## Galapoheros (Jun 25, 2010)

I'd say to sell it to the parents after they've researched it and let the parents supervise it after that.


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## the toe cutter (Jun 27, 2010)

And when the parents leave and the teenage buddies come over? Peer pressure is a b!#*% especially for your average teenage looking to fit in. Lets not forget the things we did as children that were possibly not even as foolish as having an animal capable of inflicting such a monstrously painful bite. I once broke my toe by dropping a large solid wooden chair on it, and from what I read these guys are far worse than that and that incident stopped me from working for 4 days. What kind of effect would the venom have on an individual who is 80-115lbs, on average? How much school do you think a kid would miss after getting tagged by that, after the hospital ofcourse? Are there any lasting residual effects of the bite? What would the school say about parents who let their kid get bit by a venomous animal? Do you think child services wouldn't get involved? If you say they wouldn't you're not too familiar with state and local regulations about child safety are you? And then what would happen to the animal? Not to mention AGAIN the HSUS issue. Maybe we are not thinking about everything we should be, huh?

This shouldn't be an issue that even needs a thread this long. I have 2 kids, an 11 year old daughter and a 19 month old son, and while I do have some pretty hot animals my children are not allowed near any enclosures I am working in or around and I prefer them not even to be in the same room. Which is locked by a key that only my wife and I have access to. I would NEVER let either of my children even touch the cages of my hots regardless how responsible they think they are! I would be an irresponsible parent if I did. :wall:


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## cacoseraph (Jul 1, 2010)

subspinipes and alternans should really only go to responsible adults.  partly just because adults have a larger chance of a big body mass.

off all the centipedes out there, there is a tiny percentage that we know can really mess up your day or week.  why jump into something like that?  heck, i think there would be a definite statistical improvement in symptoms between bites in 12yo and 15yo just from the body mass issues.

heros can be just about as bad as subspinipes, it looks like. and are on record for having cytotoxic components to their venom, but in a relatively minor way.




centipedes are one bug i consider totally unpredictable.  add that to lightning quickness (though a relatively slow top end speed, imo) and i think it is more prudent to plan for manageable bits in small subadult humans, rather than banking on avoiding a bite.


plus, kids that age lack the hardwiring for fully understanding grave consequences.  while they are not likely to end up *in* the grave from any pede bite... some suck worse than i would really wish on any kid.


considering there are plenty of species that don't have a bad bite or are at least a crapshoot giving a kid a species with a known hellbite just seems like a bad prospect


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## Krippschick (Jul 2, 2010)

Interesting thread...Just wondering what the decision was? Did you sell it to the kid or no?


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## Treynok (Jul 2, 2010)

I'd have to say NO, I think how many online sellers could possibly sell Hot stuff to minors though... I myself have had my Paypal account since like 15 and am now 25.  The kid works with you, let that be enough until he isn't a minor it's just not worth the risk.  I'm constantly worried about how others fare in this hobby.  I take precautions beyond being cautious, even with my P. imperators.  Some might think it is silly, but know what I've never been stung by my 70+ scorpions and have never even been close to it.  I'm not cautious for my sake, I'm cautious for the fragile strand of web that we all balance balance on with a giant pair of scissors just waiting to cut it.


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## cannabeast (Jul 19, 2010)

*yes*

yes sell it to him. dont exclude him. if hes an enthusiast willing to pay money to his hobby, that shows that he probly knows more than most adults. hes competent enough to take care of it!


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## JC (Jul 20, 2010)

*No*

Only with the approval of the guardians.


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## H. laoticus (Jul 20, 2010)

cannabeast said:


> yes sell it to him. dont exclude him. if hes an enthusiast willing to pay money to his hobby, that shows that he probly knows more than most adults. hes competent enough to take care of it!


This is not very sound logic.  A kid can go buy a rifle because he's interested in them, but that doesn't mean squat.


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## kevin1995 (Jul 20, 2010)

H. laoticus said:


> This is not very sound logic.  A kid can go buy a rifle because he's interested in them, but that doesn't mean squat.


No matter what, rifle and inverts shouldnt be compared in this thread... rifle can do as much damage to an adult as to a kid.

And as someone mentioned effects on people varies by weight.
A possible solution would be to exclusively sell it to those over certain wieght, height and mental capability.

Seriously, like a junior/ senior student who wants to do a science fair or events of those sorts should be able to, as long as parents supervise.

There are LOTS of other dangers kids are prone to even in their own house, and some are even more dangerous than scolopendrids...


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## Mister Internet (Jul 20, 2010)

kevin1995 said:


> Seriously, like a junior/ senior student who wants to do a science fair or events of those sorts should be able to, as long as parents supervise.


Parents would have to know at least as much as the student in question, and ideally MORE, to be able to pretend to "supervise" this kind of activity... the kinds of peculiarities involved in the hobby are not automatically known by virtue of generic maturity.  Likely the student "knows more" about keeping the scolopendrid than the parents, and thus the parents' supervision is rendered moot... it has nothing to do with the maturity of the student, but the ethical and potential legal ramifications in the hobby.



kevin1995 said:


> There are LOTS of other dangers kids are prone to even in their own house, and some are even more dangerous than scolopendrids...


What house of horrors did you grow up in??   There's a huge difference between a genuine accident and being "prone" to something by virtue of its unencumbered proximity or availability...


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## Fierce Deїty (Jul 20, 2010)

I was a "non-adult" when I first kept scolopendrids... I never have been bitten.  I believe maturity level, and experience plays a part in it.  I've met adolescents that are more mature than some adults...


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## H. laoticus (Jul 27, 2010)

kevin1995 said:


> No matter what, rifle and inverts shouldnt be compared in this thread... rifle can do as much damage to an adult as to a kid.
> 
> And as someone mentioned effects on people varies by weight.
> A possible solution would be to exclusively sell it to those over certain wieght, height and mental capability.
> ...


Sorry if you mistook what I wrote, but I wasn't exactly comparing rifles to scorpions.  The person I was quoting was saying that just because a hobbyist is an "enthusiast willing to pay money to his hobby,"  it shows that he's well informed and even "competent" enough to care for the creature.    
I was giving him an example to show it's not sound logic.  I could have replaced rifle with drugs or anything else for that matter.

Basically, a person's knowledge and competence should not be measured on whether or not he is able to contribute financially to his hobby.
And Mister Internet nailed it.


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## Sleazoid (Aug 3, 2010)

Sorry to revive this thread. I think no because just look at how bad the Herp hobby is just because some adults buy a burmese python. Burms are very sweet snakes but just because some people are stupid and have accidents or do not know how to take care of it. I say no, children are stupid. I use to be one, and I was stupid. Only when I got into my mid teens did I start being truly responsible for my animals and researching them before I bought them. No matter how mature a child is, they are still a child.


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## super-pede (Aug 3, 2010)

Holy thread revival Batman!


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## smallara98 (Aug 6, 2010)

Superpede , this thread is a good one . Thats like asking if its a good idea to sell a H. mac or S. calceatum to me . If I asked a tarantula breeder or someone on these boards , yup , im pretty sure they would sell one to me . Like Paul form petcenterusa.net or Micahel from tarantulas.com , they knew I was a kid , and they sold to me .


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## Crawly (Nov 20, 2010)

No.

Although many a youth are quite knowledgeable of the animals and very well capable of keeping them alive and healthy, it is too risky to the kids health, your well being, and the hobby itself.  I wouldn't do it, even if their parents supported the idea of getting one because parents make bad decisions too.  If I were to sell one to a kid and then later hear about him or her being hospitalized because of a "accident," I wouldn't be able to forgive myself, as it would be just as much my fault as the parents for allowing a child to have something dangerous. Plus there could be legal ramifications (not positive on that though). 

Plus, it could have negative implications on the hobby itself.  Look at how the reptile community has suffered because dealers, and parents alike were allowing kids to purchase and keep deadly animals.  After so many hospitalizations, the hobby will grab the attention of people who will want it banned.  Tarantula and scorpion keepers will be put under the same scrutiny as well.


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## dannyboypede (Nov 20, 2010)

Crawly said:


> No.
> 
> Although many a youth are quite knowledgeable of the animals and very well capable of keeping them alive and healthy, it is too risky to the kids health, your well being, and the hobby itself.  I wouldn't do it, even if their parents supported the idea of getting one because parents make bad decisions too.  If I were to sell one to a kid and then later hear about him or her being hospitalized because of a "accident," I wouldn't be able to forgive myself, as it would be just as much my fault as the parents for allowing a child to have something dangerous. Plus there could be legal ramifications (not positive on that though).
> 
> Plus, it could have negative implications on the hobby itself.  Look at how the reptile community has suffered because dealers, and parents alike were allowing kids to purchase and keep deadly animals.  After so many hospitalizations, the hobby will grab the attention of people who will want it banned.  Tarantula and scorpion keepers will be put under the same scrutiny as well.


im sorry but that just seems silly. im thirteen and have two scolos. it definitely depends on the person. if the kid wants it so that he/she can see it eat mice or put it in their friends' beds, then the answer is no. i spent about a year wanting a scolo and now that i have a couple, i respect them and would be crushed if they were taken from me because they could hurt me. i also have an obt, my most dangerous spider. you could choose to not sell me stairs or something because i *could* fall and be hospitalized. window salesmen could not install windows into households with children because they *could* fall out. my point is, you cant live life worrying about what could happen, and just be careful and respect the animals. 

Dan


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## Canth (Nov 21, 2010)

dannyboypede said:


> im sorry but that just seems silly. im thirteen and have two scolos. it definitely depends on the person. if the kid wants it so that he/she can see it eat mice or put it in their friends' beds, then the answer is no. i spent about a year wanting a scolo and now that i have a couple, i respect them and would be crushed if they were taken from me because they could hurt me. i also have an obt, my most dangerous spider. you could choose to not sell me stairs or something because i *could* fall and be hospitalized. window salesmen could not install windows into households with children because they *could* fall out. my point is, you cant live life worrying about what could happen, and just be careful and respect the animals.
> 
> Dan


Thought this was ironic...

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?p=1782732#post1782732


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## dannyboypede (Nov 22, 2010)

yeah. haha


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## briarpatch10 (Nov 22, 2010)

dannyboypede said:


> you cant live life worrying about what could happen


As a parent...yes you can and do worry about your children, If you can avoid a potential hazard for your child you will. My children would not be allowed to have an OBT, a g. rosea or maybe an emp. scorp but nothing that i felt was too much for them. a little brains goes a long way, think about things that could go wrong and fix what you can before it has the oportunity to cause harm. That was an immature comment to make proving the point about not letting "children" have scolopendrids.


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