# avicularia purpurea (purple pink toe tarantula) advices?



## silentarantula (Feb 4, 2016)

i am new to arachnid world as a collector. i have high passions to collect since i was teenager, but unable to do so until now. i will start with my two _Heterometrus longimanus (asian forest scorpions) upcoming this friday as my pets. i'm very exciting to have them._

_but avicularia purpurea _(purple pink toe tarantula) is the one that i would love to have. i would love to have that tarantula probably want to get it by next month or the opportunity strikes if i could find a tarantula with marks that i'd like to have as my collector pet.

yes, i know there's may few threads down here about_ avicularia _tarantulas' terrariums and all. but it would be nice if i could have some advices or feedbacks to have a best terrarium/feeding possible for that tarantula i will buy to feel like a home. as i still will continue look around internet and this forum to acknowledge it more and preparing a terrarium for my tarantula.

thanks.


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## dragonfire1577 (Feb 4, 2016)

Well i keep Avicularia Versicolor which has the same care and find that a vertical enclosure with good cross ventilation and very slightly moist mold resistant substrate works best(springtails are an ideal cleaner crew because these guys don't tolerate stagnant air or moldy enclosures). Providing a piece of cork bark is a good idea and sometimes utilized for making a web but mine usually web on the top corner of the enclosure. Avics are awesome and can be slightly skittish but overall are extremely well tempered and I've never managed to provoke a threat pose from one of mine, they also eat really well for me and I feed every 4 or 5 days.

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## Storm76 (Feb 4, 2016)

A. purpurea are somewhat iffy from my own experiences. They depend even more on good ventilation and stuffy air will kill them quickly! They're slightly more opportunistic than other Avicularia species, as these even accepted hides lower to the ground, rather than spinning up the top like every other Avic does mainly. I've raised mine in 500ml jars with holes around the circumference and a part of the lid plastic mesh just fine. Later rehoused them into 2gal rubbermaid jars that they lived in just fine. Again - drill a number of holes around the circumference of the jar, not only on top, but around the middle too and not too small. Oh, they max out around ~5" and are somewhat photosensitive.

Keep them around 20-22°C with ample ventilation, dry substrate and an oversized (for them) waterdish that's always full.

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## Poec54 (Feb 4, 2016)

Of the 10 species of Avics I've raised from slings, purpurea have been the slowest growing, but then the adults are on the small side.  Slings/juveniles love to spin profusely in deli cups. 

The thrive in the standard Avic set up: dry substrate, cross ventilation, full water bowl, cork and plastic plants for anchor points, and no misting except for slings (and then only weekly and very lightly on their silk).

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Informative 2


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## silentarantula (Feb 4, 2016)

thanks. yeah, i'm familiar with humidity and ventilation is the "cons" of that tarantula's care sheet, but overall they are one of beginners tarantula to own if i can take care of humidity/ventilation. do size of terrarium matters depend on tarantulas? yes, i know they are arboreal (tall) terrarium pets. i plan to buy exo-terra terrarium for this tarantula which they apparently have good ventilation access and they open on side instead from the top.

if i want to buy a sling, it would be good idea to rehousing them small into bigger terrarium upon their growing process or i can just put it in terrarium she will stay for good?


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## silentarantula (Feb 4, 2016)

dragonfire1577 said:


> Well i keep Avicularia Versicolor which has the same care and find that a vertical enclosure with good cross ventilation and very slightly moist mold resistant substrate works best(springtails are an ideal cleaner crew because these guys don't tolerate stagnant air or moldy enclosures). Providing a piece of cork bark is a good idea and sometimes utilized for making a web but mine usually web on the top corner of the enclosure. Avics are awesome and can be slightly skittish but overall are extremely well tempered and I've never managed to provoke a threat pose from one of mine, they also eat really well for me and I feed every 4 or 5 days.


do you clean their web housing or leave way it is, but clean the soil regularly beside changing water daily.


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## Storm76 (Feb 4, 2016)

arachnidreads said:


> i plan to buy exo-terra terrarium for this tarantula which they apparently have good ventilation access and they open on side instead from the top.


Not to this! Exo-Terras are bad choices for Avics in general! Yes, I know opinions and experiences here vary, but the fact remains that with the meshtop, most if not all of the humidity provided by the waterdish simply evaporates into nothingness. Additionally, there's the risk (not saying it will happen, but it can!) of the tarantula getting stuck in the very same mesh with it's tarsal claws. (You know they have retractable claws like cats, right?) - these are better suited for terrestrials if at all - because there are way cheaper solutions as those. IMO still one of the most overprices enclosures...

You upgrade their enclosure gradually, basically in a way that it'll last for 3-4 molt cycles in the current one before having to rehouse again. Ever rehous is stress for the animal to some degree and it has to get used to new digs every time, so we try to keep it as seldom as possible. You could potentially raise a sling in an oversized end-enclosure, but chances are the little one won't find its food in there, or you may think it escaped because of not being able to find it - they can hide pretty well if they want to at that size .

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## silentarantula (Feb 4, 2016)

Storm76 said:


> Not to this! Exo-Terras are bad choices for Avics in general! Yes, I know opinions and experiences here vary, but the fact remains that with the meshtop, most if not all of the humidity provided by the waterdish simply evaporates into nothingness. Additionally, there's the risk (not saying it will happen, but it can!) of the tarantula getting stuck in the very same mesh with it's tarsal claws. (You know they have retractable claws like cats, right?) - these are better suited for terrestrials if at all - because there are way cheaper solutions as those. IMO still one of the most overprices enclosures...
> 
> You upgrade their enclosure gradually, basically in a way that it'll last for 3-4 molt cycles in the current one before having to rehouse again. Ever rehous is stress for the animal to some degree and it has to get used to new digs every time, so we try to keep it as seldom as possible. You could potentially raise a sling in an oversized end-enclosure, but chances are the little one won't find its food in there, or you may think it escaped because of not being able to find it - they can hide pretty well if they want to at that size .


any brands you'd recommend to buy a tall or arboreal terrariums? i plan to collect several tarantulas, yes. but i just plan to build a "showcase" individiual terrarium for this _avicularia_ to live in.

i'm glad you mentioned about mesh, it's just what i need to hear in different perspective of owning it as i never own it. harming or stressing tarantulas are the last thing i want to do. i do agreed that the exo-terras are overpriced a bit, since there aren't much terrariums brands i like to see to buy at beginning.


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## cold blood (Feb 4, 2016)

The humidity thing is over-rated, the cross ventilation is much more important.   A water dish is your humidity control, coupled with proper ventilation.

I don't think an avic is a great beginner, and in the realm of Avicularia, purpurea may be one of the poorer choices as they can be quite sensitive.   If you do go avic, definitely get an adult, or at least a juvenile, I would strongly advise your first not to be an avic sling.

Where in WI do you live?  pm me if you prefer.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1


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## Poec54 (Feb 4, 2016)

cold blood said:


> I don't think an avic is a great beginner, and in the realm of Avicularia, purpurea may be one of the poorer choices as they can be quite sensitive.   If you do go avic, definitely get an adult, or at least a juvenile, I would strongly advise your first not to be an avic sling.


+1.  It's very common for people to lose their first Avic, or first few Avics (this forum has had more than it's share of 'My Dead Avic' threads).  They have a narrow range of acceptable conditions.  It's best to get a feel for tarantulas by starting with some of the calmer NW terrestrials.

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## silentarantula (Feb 4, 2016)

cold blood said:


> The humidity thing is over-rated, the cross ventilation is much more important.   A water dish is your humidity control, coupled with proper ventilation.
> 
> I don't think an avic is a great beginner, and in the realm of Avicularia, purpurea may be one of the poorer choices as they can be quite sensitive.   If you do go avic, definitely get an adult, or at least a juvenile, I would strongly advise your first not to be an avic sling.
> 
> Where in WI do you live?  pm me if you prefer.


no problem, that's why i'm just asking in here that reply me personally, even i do read several other threads so i can acknowledged to prevent the worst case scenarios when i'm ready to own one. i do have other beginner tarantulas in my mind before this to familiarize with tarantulas.

since i started a conversation with you in PM, you may see why i'm after "purpurea" to make it special tarantula, haha.

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## cold blood (Feb 4, 2016)

arachnidreads said:


> since i started a conversation with you in PM, you may see why i'm after "purpurea" to make it special tarantula, haha.


Boooo, purple can be such an ugly color. 

You need a P. cambridgei and an A. ezendami (green and gold spiders) if you want to see beauty.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Poec54 (Feb 4, 2016)

arachnidreads said:


> since i started a conversation with you in PM, you may see why i'm after "purpurea" to make it special tarantula.


Not sure what you're getting at, but color is not a good reason to select a tarantula.  It works out better for both the owner and spider if the species is a good fit for the person's experience/skill level.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## silentarantula (Feb 4, 2016)

cold blood said:


> Boooo, purple can be such an ugly color.
> 
> You need a P. cambridgei and an A. ezendami (green and gold spiders) if you want to see beauty.


haha, good one. yet, i might will buy one or both in future, eventually. but it will not be a "5-stars PLUS" terrarium i will make purpurea one, lol.


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## cold blood (Feb 4, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> Not sure what you're getting at, but color is not a good reason to select a tarantula.  It works out better for both the owner and spider if the species is a good fit for the person's experience/skill level.


He's a Vikings fan.

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## Poec54 (Feb 4, 2016)

cold blood said:


> He's a Vikings fan.



Not the best reason to get a purple spider.  Should Bucs fans get an OBT for a first spider?

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## silentarantula (Feb 4, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> Not the best reason to get a purple spider.  Should Bucs fans get an OBT for a first spider?


obt, old world baboon, _pterinochilus murinus_? haha, good one.


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## Quixtar (Feb 4, 2016)

I got a C. lividum as my first spider, and that turned out fine for me. Then I went into baboons, avics, pokies, etc. I never even got into calmer terrestrial NW species until a year into the hobby. There really isn't a whole lot of experience necessary with tarantulas. You just have to be responsible and confident about keeping them.

My first avic was an adult female A. versicolor, followed shortly by a juvie female A. purpurea. I later raised the purpurea to maturity and bred her. Got a nice batch of babies out of her.

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## Rogerpoco (Feb 4, 2016)

The T that started it al for me is my GBB...Tebow. Grew up in Florida,actually wasn't a gator fan...
Ya,Cold,I've seen extra care requirements for purps,but in my experience,this doesn't seem to be the case. Ventilation. Moving air. Water dish. Pretty much covers it.
Still waiting on eggsac from my purp breeding shot,hoping any day now.

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## Poec54 (Feb 4, 2016)

Quixtar said:


> - I got a C. lividum as my first spider, and that turned out fine for me. Then I went into baboons, avics, pokies, etc.
> - There really isn't a whole lot of experience necessary with tarantulas. You just have to be responsible and confident about keeping them.


- That won't work out well for most people, who aren't expecting them to be so fast and feisty.  Particularly if they live with other people, cats, and dogs.  An escape drags everyone in the home into it, and we have no shortage of Escape threads here.  Far better to have a slow NW loose than the ones you started with. 

- Without experience, how do people know what 'responsible' and 'confident' means?  It's relative to the animals, and if they haven't worked with these animals, they're guessing.

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## Quixtar (Feb 4, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> - That won't work out well for most people, who aren't expecting them to be so fast and feisty.  Particularly if they live with other people, cats, and dogs.  An escape drags everyone in the home into it, and we have no shortage of Escape threads here.  Far better to have a slow NW loose than the ones you started with.
> 
> - Without experience, how do people know what 'responsible' and 'confident' means?  It's relative to the animals, and if they haven't worked with these animals, they're guessing.


You don't start off having experience with fast and defensive Ts without first trying it. Getting a rosie doesn't prep you for a pokie in anything other than basic T care, which itself is barely any work.

That adult female C. lividum, my very first T, darted onto my arm and onto my back as soon as I unpacked it. It startled the **** out of me. Before this, I had experience handling a friend's Brachy. I was comfortable with that, but the difference was night and day. However, I stayed calm, took off my shirt, and put a cup over it, knowing that even if it bit me, I wouldn't die. It's _just_ a tarantula.

Responsibility and confidence comes from having done your research in what to expect when caring for the animals and in how comfortable and prepared you are in dealing with panic situations. If you're interested in a T that is colorful and not the norm for first T owners, it is 1) presumably more expensive, and 2) not readily available unless you look for one. Also, someone who is putting time into browsing forums is most likely not some naive kid who wandered into a pet store and impulsively wanted a tarantula.

In regard to this topic, it's just an Avic.

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## cold blood (Feb 4, 2016)

Quixtar said:


> Getting a rosie doesn't prep you for a pokie in anything other than basic T care, which itself is barely any work.


No that would be an illogical step...you would get something like a P. cam to prep you for a pokie.

And you couldn't expect much prep for a lividium by way of smithi, but C. marshalli might.

With the number of available species nowadays, there's lots of stepping stone ts.

Rosie to pokie would be like going from the floor to the 8th step in one bound...yup, a few real athletic individuals may make it without issue, but for the majority it will be an extremely difficult task that they shouldn't be expected to even attempt.

I'm glad it worked out for you, and there have been others that shared your success, but there have been many more that struggled.

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## cold blood (Feb 4, 2016)

Quixtar said:


> In regard to this topic, it's just an Avic.


I agree there


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## Rogerpoco (Feb 5, 2016)

Poec54-I swear,this second me and Wife having conversation on this exact matter. I want a Vietnamese Blue Beauty(I don't understand. NOT a snake fan. But I HAVE to have this snake,is gorgeous!!!).
She was not a fan of me getting into spiders a couple years ago,at all,and made very clear rules-If I lose a T,she calls pest control,seriously. She pays most of our bills,and for my T's,but is honestly that terrified. I want to handle my T's more,but out of respect for her,I have devised some pretty creative ways to feed/water w/o opening enclosures,if I see the need. In two years keeping,have had 70+slings,never lost one to escape.
There are different personality types. Like Charlie Brown-I'm afraid of EVERYTHING!
I don't agree exactly with the way Quixtar made the statement,a little bold,and experience is ALWAYS a plus,seriously. C'mon,can't argue that.
BUT-there are some people,not everyone,and not even everyone capable of keeping T's,that are overcautious to a degree(you should see my rehousing contraptions-no escapes,haha)that can feel more confident than others that they haven't made a mistake.
Now if I can just get her to buy my argument,mebbe I can get that snake.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Rogerpoco (Feb 5, 2016)

cold blood said:


> yup, a few real athletic individuals may make it without issue


Funny correlation-I am the non-athelete in an atheletic-scholarship family(musician...). Found out a few years ago I could throw a disc golf disc farther than most people. My athelete Dad was impressed. Who knew,lol.
That's what I meant(and what I think you mean). Some people are cavalier,some people are nutto-cautious. Doesn't mean they won't make mistakes,but they cut the room for error down quite a bit.
Avics my thing,but I spent 8 months with terrestrials before taking them on,definitely a learning curve,regardless of intuitiveness.
Don't start with a Pokie. Don't start with a Pterinochilus. Really,leave O/W alone for a while altogether. Avics can be in your armpit in the blink of an eye,and they are among the slowest N/W A/B,so be cautious even starting there.
Man,I want that snake. I HATE snakes.


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## Storm76 (Feb 5, 2016)

Go for an acrylic enclosure (preferably one with drilled holes, rather than mesh vents) or build one yourself. I honestly think those with holes drilled are the best enclosures besides normal glass.

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## Andrea82 (Feb 5, 2016)

Of all my slings I'm keeping so far,the avics worry me the most. Maybe because I read so much about them being difficult to raise, but none of my other T's,slings or older makes me feel so much as a beginning noob as these avics. 
They're doing fine,that's not the issue,but they seem to need more experience than my P.pulcher slings,which are considered intermediate T's.


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## Poec54 (Feb 5, 2016)

Andrea82 said:


> Of all my slings I'm keeping so far,the avics worry me the most. Maybe because I read so much about them being difficult to raise, but none of my other T's,slings or older makes me feel so much as a beginning noob as these avics.
> They're doing fine,that's not the issue,but they seem to need more experience than my P.pulcher slings,which are considered intermediate T's.



There's a valid reason for your concern; there have probably been more Avic deaths in captivity than any other genera of tarantula.  I got my first tarantula over 40 years ago, Avics are the most high maintenance.  They're not hard to keep when you understand what they need, but they need to be watched more often, and you need to keep those conditions within certain limits and respond quickly when they fall outside of that.  Other species tend to be more forgiving.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## silentarantula (Feb 5, 2016)

Quixtar said:


> Responsibility and confidence comes from having done your research in what to expect when caring for the animals and in how comfortable and prepared you are in dealing with panic situations. If you're interested in a T that is colorful and not the norm for first T owners, it is 1) presumably more expensive, and 2) not readily available unless you look for one. Also, someone who is putting time into browsing forums is most likely not some naive kid who wandered into a pet store and impulsively wanted a tarantula.
> 
> In regard to this topic, it's just an Avic.


agreed what you said. but i was a naive kid wandered into pet store, impulsively wanted a tarantula (winks). after that, i want to go library to check out their books/encyclopedia, watching discovery channel in 1990s, it just stuck in my mind for 2/3 of my life. now i can make a first step into arachnids collection.  

that's one of reason why i'm doing a research on avics right now. yes, i never own any arachnids because i can't; doesn't mean i have no confident or experience in it but i've always want to have them. right now, i'm starting with asian forest scorpions which i will be getting today. i do plan get a terrestrial tarantula, also. i've own a lot of reptiles/amphibians, and other different pets in my lifetime. now, it's an opportunity for me to start my "hobby" where i want to start when i was teen.

terrestrial/burrowing tarantulas seem more easier housing to take care of, obviously.

it's not that avics. purpurea is only tarantula i only want to own. i got several other tarantulas i would like to have in my mind, too. _theraphosa apophysis_!!


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## Andrea82 (Feb 5, 2016)

Lol...it starts with one....
Of course you have more in mind...we're talking about T's after all

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## Quixtar (Feb 5, 2016)

arachnidreads said:


> i got several other tarantulas i would like to have in my mind, too. _theraphosa apophysis_!!


You really like sensitive species don't you? Let me suggest adding Megaphobema mesomelas to your wishlist then.

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## silentarantula (Feb 5, 2016)

Quixtar said:


> You really like sensitive species don't you? Let me suggest adding Megaphobema mesomelas to your wishlist then.


a luxury version of _brachypelma smithi_? lol. that definitely add in my wish list, .


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## viper69 (Feb 5, 2016)

Avics are not first time Ts for most people in my opinion. Just from reading the OPs reasonable questions, it's quite clear to me if the OP buys an Avic it will be dead at some point, to prevent this, I suggest you get a beginner Terrestrial species.

Also, I've owned several Avic species, and A purps so far are a bit more challenging than the others. I predict a A purp death thread in the coming months at this rate.


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## viper69 (Feb 5, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> Of the 10 species of Avics I've raised from slings, purpurea have been the slowest growing, but then the adults are on the small side.  Slings/juveniles love to spin profusely in deli cups.
> 
> The thrive in the standard Avic set up: dry substrate, cross ventilation, full water bowl, cork and plastic plants for anchor points, and no misting except for slings (and then only weekly and very lightly on their silk).


I would agree, but this time I have an Avic locality which tops the slow growth rate of A purp.... A sp. Kwitara River. They've been alive for over 2 years on this planet, and my Purp has been around for 8 months if that, and the Purp has exceeded the size of the sp Kwitara River, which are a larger T too, one of the larger Avics, some think the largest.


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## viper69 (Feb 5, 2016)

arachnidreads said:


> yes, i know there's may few threads down here about_ avicularia _tarantulas' terrariums and all. but it would be nice if i could have some advices or feedbacks to have a best terrarium/feeding possible for that tarantula


It would be great if you would tell us what you have learned, that way we could correct anything that may be erroneous. Can't wait to read all of what you learned on this topic.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## dragonfire1577 (Feb 6, 2016)

arachnidreads said:


> do you clean their web housing or leave way it is, but clean the soil regularly beside changing water daily.


I do not remove their webbing as i feel it's very important for them to have their webbing intact for security, otherwise i change water daily and clean soil regularly.


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## Rogerpoco (Feb 6, 2016)

Following viper around,agreeing with him(J/K).
Ya,prolly mentioned,avic guy here,9 sp. currently,4 purpureas(mating!).

Agree,the purpurea is not the best avic to start with. For one,the slings seem twice as skittish as any of my other avics,and they don't chill much over time.
I actually lost(died)a couple of versicolors,as well,when I jumped from a few T's to a lot of T's,I just hadn't adjusted my keeping practices properly.
Not sure I completely buy it,but have heard those two sp. in particular need higher humidity but also good ventilation as slings,hard to pull off.

Just from the ones I know and have kept/seen-As they grow,my ulricheas SEEM to be more chill than their urticans/peru purp cousins,and may grow to be "friendly"(yeah...)spiders,but they were pretty wild as babies.

I think the best starter avic really would be the A. metallica. Not uncommon/expensive,a little more attractive than the A. avic,and my two,unrelated,are my two most docile/chill avics,seems to be a sp. trait. They also webbed in the middle of their enclosures when small,not the top,making them a little easier to manage than some others.

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## viper69 (Feb 6, 2016)

Rogerpoco said:


> Following viper around,agreeing with him(J/K).
> Ya,prolly mentioned,avic guy here,9 sp. currently,4 purpureas(mating!).
> 
> Agree,the purpurea is not the best avic to start with. For one,the slings seem twice as skittish as any of my other avics,and they don't chill much over time.
> ...


I agree, my A metallica male was the best Avic slign I raised to adulthood. So incredibly mellow even as an adult searching for a mate. Keep me posted on that purp sac Roger! I hope you offer them on the classifieds!


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## Rogerpoco (Feb 6, 2016)

Will do,for sure. Feeling like I have waited for a sac just long enough to worry I won't get one,which hopefully actually translates to Any Day Now. She's definitely rearranged her house quite a bit.
I'm possibly as excited that I may accompish something productive(kinda a rare occurance...),that someone else may be interested in,as they will be about the slings themselves,will def make some available. Already planned out how to get them into little straws without losing a single one.
(Yeah...Right...).

I don't handle much,love it,don't advocate it,bad/useless for the T,agreed.
I did handle 3 of my large juvie/small adult avics for the first time a couple weeks ago tho(oops). Versicolor was constantly moving,but not jumpy about it. A. avic(c/b,from a sling)constantly moving,was a little nervous tho. I expected opposite results from those two.
The metallica just kinda sat there. Totally surprised me. No hurry to move,no hurry to climb. Was odd,but I am far from an expert at what to usually expect.

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## viper69 (Feb 6, 2016)

Rogerpoco said:


> Will do,for sure. Feeling like I have waited for a sac just long enough to worry I won't get one,which hopefully actually translates to Any Day Now. She's definitely rearranged her house quite a bit.
> I'm possibly as excited that I may accompish something productive(kinda a rare occurance...),that someone else may be interested in,as they will be about the slings themselves,will def make some available. Already planned out how to get them into little straws without losing a single one.
> (Yeah...Right...).
> 
> ...


I don't advocate handling either. I let my G. pulchripes walk on my hand, which was not easy to do. She was constantly looking for a harder surface to walk on. They hate the touch of human flesh, I believe because it's soft and mushy to them. I only did that once w/her, and that was it.

As much as I'd like to handle an Avic, once I see their front legs moving up and down, I know they are looking to make a jump. I was feeding an Avic once, and it got the best of me and scooted out, hung out on my wrist before I could do anything. My hands were full and next thing I know, it took a flying leap, 4 feet down and landed on a box. Fortunately nothing happened to it.

The species/locality I have now are quite literally jumpy, esp the A purp and A sp Kwitara River.


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## Rogerpoco (Feb 6, 2016)

As much as I do wish I had the magic touch for handling,it was comforting when I first heard that there are keepers that handle for years and years,never intending to handle their T's.
I had thought,through my fear of losing one,mostly,that I was missing out/behind on a serious part of keeping,was glad to be wrong.


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## viper69 (Feb 6, 2016)

I have to admit for the few minutes I held my Chaco, feeling 8 individual legs moving is REALLY odd! I'm not sure if it's their leg movement or just 8 legs, because insects don't feel odd to me at all. If only Ts were as human tolerant as walking sticks and mantids.


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## silentarantula (Feb 11, 2016)

viper69 said:


> It would be great if you would tell us what you have learned, that way we could correct anything that may be erroneous. Can't wait to read all of what you learned on this topic.


was out of town for past weekend. what i've understand that purpurea does have more death ratio compare to others and avics. they may be high-maintenance Ts. obviously not recommend to handling it.

to have better care, is recommend to have acrylic terrarium with cross-ventilation drilled holes. clean out the enclosure regularly but not removing webbing to prevent stressing Ts. humidity is not the really maintenance to be concern but remain moist (not too dry or too dampy).

i already got my first three slings of Ts, it's _G. pulchripes_. and i'm still want to add more Ts in my collection. i'm not in hurry to get purpurea, it may be soon or later depend on opportunities. i just will buy almost "any" T's upon opportunities/timing.

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## viper69 (Feb 11, 2016)

arachnidreads said:


> it may be soon or later depend on opportunities. i just will buy almost "any" T's upon opportunities/timing.


Well if you want to make sure the money you spend on Ts and potentially shipping doesn't go to waste, just make sure you continue to do a lot of research BEFORE you buy it, and ask questions. Seems like common sense, but it's not.


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## Whitelightning777 (Sep 12, 2017)

I got a Versicolor as my first T. I did put it into a larger enclosure, but this resulted in howls of protests.

I tried putting it into a smaller size enclosure, but this had a dangerous drawback. They are so fast that they escape every time you have to feed them.  Since I was using the shower, with the curtains pulled out and the drain plugged, I would get her back without incident.  All such incidents are LIFE threatening even if nothing happens!!

My sling we so small at 1/4" that I could only fed fruitflies at first. 

What you need to happen is to get them to make a web. I rebuilt the larger enclosure, glued everything in place so it wouldn't shift or damage the T and the web.

As long as there is a full water dish half full at all times, it won't dehydrate.

Once I got a web from her, I was able to feed small crickets from the pet store to her even though they were slightly larger in size.  In nature, spiders that web can't control the size of what gets trapped inside!!

They had to be partially disabled first. I put the crickets with a container that I use to physically move them. I put the crickets into the fridge for an hour to stun them. I remove the drumsticks, back legs and all legs from one side while the crickets are chilled using feeding tongs and tweezers, 2 legs one side left. Then back into the fridge to fully slow them down again.

After that, I simply drop them into the web. At first they don't move and my Versicolor ignores them. As they begin to warm up and begin to wiggle around, the feeding reflex kicks in and she effortlessly nails them and takes a day or two to fully eat them.

To solve the ventilation issue, I have a very very small fan positioned to gently blow air onto the enclosure into ventilation holes. If I see condensation, it stays on until the condensation goes away totally.  Otherwise, it's just a few hours each day, off at night.

My T actually likes this and will position herself to feel the gentle breeze!! I have a ventilation hole directly over the water dish and use an eye dropper to fill it.

When feeding, I open the lid just wide enough for the tongs to drop the cricket into the web, no more no less!!

Since the web was compete, she hasn't tried to escape even once. In the larger enclosure before the web, she would run DOWN instead of up and out.

I also recommend doing lots of research. Watch at least 30 to 50 YouTube videos. Join at least 2 forums and form relationships with open minded people!!

Again, this setup caused much controversy here.

(Obviously, NEVER get tricked into giving away your T because someone plays head games with you--long story.)

A small USB fan costs $5 + the power to USB charger to run it. It's the same one you use to charge a cell phone, hardly going to send you to the poor house.

She has molted once and looks gorgeous. The web is absolutely beautiful and prevents anything, such as maybe a feeder that escaped, ants etc, from harming the T.

The enclosure I used was originally for my girlfriend's Mantis that died from a bad molt because it fell due to the log inside shifting by accident. Glue or Velcro everything so nothing can move!!

A T must be able to find food, protect itself, refrain from escaping when you try to feed it, molt and stay hydrated. Putting a drop of water into the web every day is also a good idea.  As long as it can function, cage size doesn't matter!!

Repeat that 100 times if mentally traumatized. With intense therapy, you'll adapt!!

This setup doesn't take more then 5 minutes a day to maintain it.  I also use a heat lamp to keep the temp at 80 degrees, which will minimize the vulnerable time as a sling.  Use a voltage controller starting very low and gradually increasing!!

These are about $20 from Amazon, plus the cost of a heat lamp you can get anywhere. My lamp is on the higher shelf, which is a wire shelf that allows air and heat to move. The cage is lifted slightly to line it up with the mini fan. My scorpling cage is beside it.

After her first molt she got much bigger and took her first mealworm, chilled same way as crickets but fully intact. She now has a very fat butt and is very calm within the web. She hasn't left the web since she built it!!

Yes, this will upset many keepers far more then the T!! Here's pics.  That's proof it works.  Thanks YouTube!!

Each problem with these guys has a solution.  I don't have your species and individuals differ.  Overall, both animals have very similar requirements.

I'd also suggest not getting a 1/4" sling.  Do one 3/4" or 1"+ instead.

Reactions: Dislike 2 | Disagree 4


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## miss moxie (Sep 13, 2017)

@Whitelightning777

First things first: This thread is from last year. If OP has gotten their A. purpurea, they've likely had it longer than you've had your C. versicolor.

Stop passing off your misguided and hard-headed information as "good" advice. Your pictures aren't proof of anything but your denial. A set up works great until it doesn't. That could be with this T, it could be with the next C. versicolor or Avicularia relative you keep this way. You are so stubborn and your brand of care is dangerous to the poor new people who come in and actually want to learn *proper* Avicularia care; not some first time keeper's approximation of "nothing has gone wrong in two months so I know more than people who've been keeping them for years."

I really thought we'd never see you or your poor set ups again after your last temper tantrum. You're like a bad penny.

To anyone who is looking for ACTUAL advice on Avicularia, Caribena, or Ybyrapora, here is a good and detailed list of how to keep them. Courtesy of @Venom1080 who has kept a lot more of these tarantulas for a lot longer than WL777 here has. I'm keeping 10 C. versicolor slings pretty much the same way, though I overfill the water dish once a week to moisten some of the substrate rather than keeping it completely dry. They're in a 20 oz. container and not a single one of them has bolted out of the enclosure like WL777 has suggested they will DANGEROUSLY DO in small enclosures. Even though all of them have made their web at the very top of their enclosures. One has already molted for me, and several others are in pre molt. I've also got 4 Y. diversipes I'm keeping the same way, just in a bigger enclosure since they are just under 2" in size. No heat lamp, because heat lamps can be dangerous and are completely unnecessary if the room temperature where you keep your tarantulas stays at 70F+.

But go on. Tote this at proof of how we other keepers are in an uproar over your methods. I couldn't care less what you do, you've proven you want to learn the hard way. I'm not going to let other new people who don't know better see your advice and take it to heart however.

Reactions: Agree 7


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## Venom1080 (Sep 13, 2017)

Whitelightning777 said:


> I got a Versicolor as my first T. I did put it into a larger enclosure, but this resulted in howls of protests.
> 
> I tried putting it into a smaller size enclosure, but this had a dangerous drawback. They are so fast that they escape every time you have to feed them.  Since I was using the shower, with the curtains pulled out and the drain plugged, I would get her back without incident.  All such incidents are LIFE threatening even if nothing happens!!
> 
> ...


L.O.L.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Whitelightning777 (Sep 13, 2017)

I'm not denying that multiple configurations can be made to work. I'm just saying mine resulted in a healthy get growing sling.

Maybe it's a genetic mutant that'll survive where nothing else will, but I doubt it.  

I still personally think keeping any lubing thing in an opaque or small enclosure when it can move very fast is a bad idea.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Venom1080 (Sep 13, 2017)

Whitelightning777 said:


> I still personally think keeping any lubing thing in an opaque or small enclosure when it can move very fast is a bad idea.


This statement bleeds ignorance.


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## miss moxie (Sep 13, 2017)

Whitelightning777 said:


> I'm not denying that multiple configurations can be made to work. I'm just saying mine resulted in a healthy get growing sling.
> 
> Maybe it's a genetic mutant that'll survive where nothing else will, but I doubt it.
> 
> I still personally think keeping any lubing thing in an opaque or small enclosure when it can move very fast is a bad idea.


We see "healthy, growing" Avicularia/Caribena/Ybyrapora slings die here all the time.

When you raise 30 Avicularia slings in that very same way? Then you can pass your techniques off to new people. Until then, stop giving new people advice when it directly conflicts with the keeping style of people who HAVE raised a plethora of Avicularia slings for many years.

Reactions: Agree 3 | Award 1


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## Andrea82 (Sep 13, 2017)

@Whitelightning777 your set up is way too barren and to big.
If the spider keeps escaping on you, every time you open its enclosure, you are doing something wrong.
Your advice sucks.

In addition to what @miss moxie posted about the info @Venom1080 posted for new keepers, this thread and post by @viper69  also has some great and direct info.
http://arachnoboards.com/threads/avicularia-husbandry.282549/#post-2461396

Reactions: Like 3


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## Nightstalker47 (Sep 13, 2017)

Whitelightning777 said:


> I got a Versicolor as my first T. I did put it into a larger enclosure, but this resulted in howls of protests.
> 
> I tried putting it into a smaller size enclosure, but this had a dangerous drawback. They are so fast that they escape every time you have to feed them.  Since I was using the shower, with the curtains pulled out and the drain plugged, I would get her back without incident.  All such incidents are LIFE threatening even if nothing happens!!
> 
> ...


There shouldn't be a ventilation issue if you setup your enclosure properly. A lot of what your doing is pointless, start by ditching the heat lamp and fan. They are completely unnecessary and more likely to hinder your spider then anything else. 

Basically your avic survived through it's first molt. I doubt it will do so well if you continue to keep it the way you have. 

Please read up more on your Theraphosid before you offer advice, this hobby has already been plagued with enough misinformation over the years. Not trying to put you down man but your simply wrong, on multiple fronts.


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## miss moxie (Sep 13, 2017)

Andrea82 said:


> In addition to what @miss moxie posted about the info @Venom1080 posted for new keepers, this thread and post by @viper69  also has some great and direct info.


*whispers* you forgot the link.



Nightstalker47 said:


> Please read up more on your Theraphosid before you offer advice, this hobby has already been plagued with enough misinformation over the years.


Watch youtube videos, he says.  I can find plenty of youtube videos with information that is wrong and keepers who are just downright negligent. The best source of information is this forum and WL777 refuses to accept that.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Whitelightning777 (Sep 13, 2017)

Warmth and fresh air doesn't bother the spider. Why would it move towards it then?  

When the fan and light are off at night or turned down and I run them in the day, I get a happy dance and the spider comes up to the top of the cage and hangs out closer to the heat source. Doesn't seem that stressful to me.  If I turn the lamp up higher, the spider moves closer!!

A temp of 80 degrees likewise will not harm a tarantula, especially when you're trying to increase growth for it's own safety. I know no case of a tarantula dying because 80 is too hot.  It's much hotter where they come from.

An enclosure that you can't work in without the spider running away is OBVIOUSLY dangerous to the spider and stressful. It wouldn't be running away unless it was annoyed.  If the spider can't run down, the alternative is up...& out.

If it was a pokie or something else, it might also endanger the owner!!

Many OBT owners keep them in larger enclosures to minimize undesirable behavior, namely biting because the spider feels cornered.  

If size decreases one type of undesirable behavior, why not others? That's where I got the idea from.

The enclosure is fine. The spider is fine.  In fact, the spider barely even notices if I remove the lid. As long as I steer clear of the web, removing remains is uneventful.

My enclosure isn't all that different then some of the acrylic display boxes that others use, except those sometimes have screen vents and occasionally feeding ports in the top to drop in food without opening.

Turning on a $5 fan is less risky and less troublesome then rehousing or modding the enclosure for a third time.

The room temperature is only 68 degrees because that's where my roommate/renter/ex girlfriend keeps it at.

She also randomly smokes when I'm not there which is another reason that a fan helps.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## miss moxie (Sep 13, 2017)

*You. Are. Wrong.* And you're the worst sort of wrong person. You're the sort who justifies being wrong with incredibly flawed logic.

Of course your tarantula is drawn to heat. You've been told this before. They'll literally cook themselves.

My versicolor don't move when I open the enclosure either and I keep them completely different. You're not observing and proving anything earth-shattering and brilliant.

If you can't work in a small enclosure then that sounds more like a problem with your skills, and less like justification for a ridiculously over-sized enclosure.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Whitelightning777 (Sep 13, 2017)

miss moxie said:


> *whispers* you forgot the link.
> 
> 
> 
> Watch youtube videos, he says.  I can find plenty of youtube videos with information that is wrong and keepers who are just downright negligent. The best source of information is this forum and WL777 refuses to accept that.


If the video shows a dozen or more happy healthy spiders, why not? Yes some of them are cringe worthy.

& No, there is no such thing as one forum that is the "best" source of info on anything.

I'm sure if you keep the room temperature over 75, you may not need extra heat. My ex keeps the place at 68 degrees, and people are saying ditch the heat lamps!! 


Really? 

Is that the best source of info, really?

Problem is that the ex still lives with me, long dysfunctional story not socially acceptable here.

So, who's going to try to scam me out of my spiders.... again!!  

Don't worry, they're fine.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Whitelightning777 (Sep 13, 2017)

I have a background in electronics and she biological lab experience in college. I also can take apart laptops and put them together again.

Fine motor control skills aren't the problem.

Again, show me where 80 degrees had killed off even one tarantula.  Bear in mind, my ex still lives with me and keeps the temp at 68, middle age female issues etc.

So, for this critter from near the equatorial regions I ask one question. Is 68 degrees better then 80? Justify it.


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## miss moxie (Sep 13, 2017)

Whitelightning777 said:


> If the video shows a dozen or more happy healthy spiders, why not? Yes some of them are cringe worthy.


I could go through these forums and find tons of healthy-looking Avicularia that are dead or dying. I can think of two off the top of my head. Nice, plump, colorful spiders who "spontaneously" die.

But you're not worth the effort. Because you'll keep saying they're fine until the cows come home. 

I'm not here to change your keeping styles because people have already tried that and you refuse to listen. I'm here to let new keepers know that your brand of advice is grossly misinformed, borderline negligent, and just. plain. wrong.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## miss moxie (Sep 13, 2017)

Whitelightning777 said:


> So, for this critter from near the equatorial regions I ask one question. Is 68 degrees better then 80? Justify it.


Here is something you might respond to. Your favorite source for information.

Reactions: Sad 1


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## Whitelightning777 (Sep 13, 2017)

Sounds like the cult disagrees.  Oh well. 

Again, justify keeping a tropical critter at 68 degrees.  

Explain why ventilation from a fan is different from any other type.  Bear in mind that zoos use incredibly complex life support systems for inverts.

Go to a pet store selling saltwater supplies. They make what I have look like nothing.

Yes, is I was almost hording 2 or 3 dozen animals, my set up would be too costly.

Oh, and she finally got through with the mealworm!! (Which matters more then the cult)


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## Whitelightning777 (Sep 13, 2017)

miss moxie said:


> Here is something you might respond to. Your favorite source for information.



That's obviously from a mat kept on the underside of the enclosure. It could also be from a lamp underneath the enclosure and at another enclosure below that one.

My lamp is about 6 inches above. The heat from the red bulb and the ceramic heater are pretty much the same, just easier to see from red light.

No inverts, spiders scorpions etc should be kept with an element under them. In nature, the sun shines down.

Another reason why you measure humidity is to prevent the animal from dehydrating.  You can't see humidity by looking at it, with the exception of condensation. Keep it the same as the natural habitat where they are from.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## miss moxie (Sep 13, 2017)

Whitelightning777 said:


> That's obviously from a mat kept on the underside of the enclosure. It could also be from a lamp underneath the enclosure and at another enclosure below that one.
> 
> My lamp is about 6 inches above. The heat from the red bulb and the ceramic heater are pretty much the same, just easier to see from red light.
> 
> ...


Did you watch the entire video? The spot is on the top of her abdomen, as the youtuber shows at the end of the video.

I'm done here. I'm done talking to you, because even when presented with evidence you him, haw, scratch your  and type more nonsense justifying your poor keeping methods. I got my point across for any new keepers with sense who wander onto this thread and thus my goal was accomplished.

Reactions: Thanks 1 | Agree 1


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## Whitelightning777 (Sep 13, 2017)

miss moxie said:


> Here is something you might respond to. Your favorite source for information.



That's obviously from a mat kept on the underside of the enclosure. It could also be from a lamp underneath the enclosure and at another enclosure below that one.

My lamp is about 6 inches above. The heat from the red bulb and the ceramic heater are pretty much the same, just easier to see from red light.

No inverts, spiders scorpions etc should be kept with an element under them. In nature, the sun shines down.

Another reason why you measure humidity is to prevent the animal from dehydrating.  You can't see humidity by looking at it, with the exception of condensation. Keep it the same as the natural habitat where they are from.


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## Andrea82 (Sep 13, 2017)

Whitelightning777 said:


> Another reason why you measure humidity is to prevent the animal from dehydrating.  You can't see humidity by looking at it, with the exception of condensation. Keep it the same as the natural habitat where they are from.


You see, this is the problem. Unless you have a 200$ type of equipment, those meters are never right. The posts I've seen here, saying 'look, my device says it is exactly the right humidity' and the spider is actually hanging on for dear life into the waterdish with a shrivelend abdomen....too many. 
Or the other way around. A soaked enclosure and the keeper asking 'why don't I get the humidity right, according to my meter it is still too low'. 
Those things are dangerously inaccurate. Moist, stuffy enclosures kill Avicularia/Caribena/ Ybyrapora species. 
This forum is not my only source of info by the way. The Dutch forum is also quite knowledgable, with people from Europe participating and sharing knowledge. You know, European breeders who manage to breed species no one else can? Where new species come into the trade often and are succesfully kept? 
You want to discount that knowledge? 

please read the links provided. Just read them. All aspects are explained in detail why people keep them like they do.

Reactions: Helpful 1


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## boina (Sep 13, 2017)

Whitelightning777 said:


> Keep it the same as the natural habitat where they are from.


That's obviously impossible. You can never recreate nature for your tarantula. Therefore you decide to pick arbitrary elements like 'average humidity', simulate 'wind' and chose some arbitrary temps and claim you keep it the same as their natural habitat? Er... no. Nature is a little more complex than that, so please, at least drop the nature argument. Oh, and btw. your tarantula surviving so far is evidence of absolutely nothing. A study with an n of 1 is just a joke.

And about the argument 'my tarantula loves it!' well, children love sweets, but if they get to eat as much as they want they usually end up sick.

Reactions: Agree 4


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## Whitelightning777 (Sep 13, 2017)

In the case of C Versicolor, here's the weather from its native habitat. It's warmer then 80 in many cases, humidity around 70 percent. In the trees where the spider actually lives, the humidity is no doubt slightly lower.  Yes, it's windy there as well.

http://www.climatestotravel.com/climate/martinique

In the case of A purpurea, which is from Ecuador in the Amazon, here's the weather.

http://www.cuyabenolodge.com/ecuador/climate-weather/climate-amazon-weather.htm

Go forth and do likewise, but not exactly.  You can't recreate an entire ecosystem in your home, but you can look at averages. If your native humidity varies between 60-80 percent, keep yours at about 70 percent.

If the temp varies between 75 and 85, keep it at 80 degrees.  Or at least something within that range.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Whitelightning777 (Sep 13, 2017)

Andrea82 said:


> You see, this is the problem. Unless you have a 200$ type of equipment, those meters are never right. The posts I've seen here, saying 'look, my device says it is exactly the right humidity' and the spider is actually hanging on for dear life into the waterdish with a shrivelend abdomen....too many.
> Or the other way around. A soaked enclosure and the keeper asking 'why don't I get the humidity right, according to my meter it is still too low'.
> Those things are dangerously inaccurate. Moist, stuffy enclosures kill Avicularia/Caribena/ Ybyrapora species.
> This forum is not my only source of info by the way. The Dutch forum is also quite knowledgable, with people from Europe participating and sharing knowledge. You know, European breeders who manage to breed species no one else can? Where new species come into the trade often and are succesfully kept?
> ...



I tested the humidity gauge and I have used more then one when I was setting up the cage to see what the humidity does when heated and when the water dish is full.

The temp and humidity gauges all of them and I have more then 1 correctly indicate that my building is at about 40-50 percent humidity.  If I put them in the bathroom when I take a shower, I can get over 90%.

Obviously, and my biology teacher hammered this lesson home when I was in school, you test and calibrate a gauge before use.

I had one gauge freeze in position and become non responsive. Of course, if you're turning the system down at night and up in the daytime, the gauges should reflect that. The newer digital gauges aren't that expensive.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## boina (Sep 13, 2017)

Whitelightning777 said:


> In the case of C Versicolor, here's the weather from its native habitat. It's warmer then 80 in many cases, humidity around 70 percent. In the trees where the spider actually lives, the humidity is no doubt slightly lower.  Yes, it's windy there as well.
> 
> http://www.climatestotravel.com/climate/martinique
> 
> ...


NO. Absolutely NO. This is one of the biggest and most harmful, appearently undestructable, myths about keeping animals in general. Every zoo biologist can tell you how dangerously wrong that is. You never know if it is absolutely vital for your animal to experience daily shifts - in humidity, temps or whatever other factor. You never know if they just survive the average because there's a low or a high where they recover. The 'Avics need humidity' myth is the best example for that - no, they don't need humidity, but they may survive it if other factors are right. Then there are micro climates, niche conditions, and so on. From looking at averages or climate diagrams, though done often, you know absolutely nothing about the needs of your animal and if you follow averages you will, in an astonishing number of cases, kill the animal in question.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Award 1


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## Whitelightning777 (Sep 13, 2017)

People were keeping Avics at 80+ percent humidity, based on measurements at ground level of their native habitat.

The problem is that they live in trees in the canopy, where it is more sunny, more windy (violently in frequent thunder storms) and less humid.

When I've measured mine, humidity is less then 70% probably more like 60-65%

In my condo, the maintenance people push the humidity down to close to 40% to "kill off roaches, centipedes and SPIDERS that enter the building."

I called them up and asked them why it was so low. Heck, some days I've even had static on my clothing and nosebleeds especially in winter!!

That and only 68 degrees would probably kill off and invert that wasn't from an arid environment very quickly, just like killing off the cockroaches!!

If I flipped of the switches, all my inverts world be dead within a week. 

A neighbor of mine who keeps orchids had even raised hell at HOA meetings about this issue. They were saying that her use of a humidifier made her responsible for the exterminator bill.


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## boina (Sep 13, 2017)

Ok, I give up - you don't get a single point I'm making. Maybe other who happen to come along will.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Venom1080 (Sep 13, 2017)

Whitelightning777 said:


> People were keeping Avics at 80+ percent humidity, based on measurements at ground level of their native habitat.
> 
> The problem is that they live in trees in the canopy, where it is more sunny, more windy (violently in frequent thunder storms) and less humid.
> 
> ...


Can you read? See all of boinas posts again. This is a biologist telling you a fairly easy to grasp concept. Yet you refuse it. How ridiculous. 

Didn't you say you were leaving a while ago? Certainly no ones trying you to stop you now

Reactions: Like 1


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## Whitelightning777 (Sep 13, 2017)

I can't get the account deleted, sadly enough.

Can't YOU read? 

The humidity in my condo and temperature in my condo is 40-45% and 68 degrees, totally unsuitable for any tropical invert.

Telling someone to shut off the heating lights etc is basically a trick designed to get them to kill off their pets!!

Telling them to NOT even measure the conditions simply proves that point further.

Oh, & by the way, my other spider L Klugi just molted successfully. I pulled the shed out 10 minutes ago.

The cult's fears of death and destruction have been unfounded.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Venom1080 (Sep 13, 2017)

Whitelightning777 said:


> I can't get the account deleted, sadly enough.
> 
> Can't YOU read?
> 
> ...


I don't keep up with every randos comings and goings.  

Simple. Log out. Don't log back in. 

Build a cabinet. Move them to a closet. Anywhere where it's simple to heat with a space heater. And economical. 

Tarantulas are heat addicts. They go where it's warmest. They also depend on liquid in their bodies to be able to move. Having a source of centralized heat that the animal is always drawn to is silly when you consider what heat does to liquids. 

No. We don't care about you. We don't want to hurt you by killing your animals. We care about the animals YOU are responsible for. 

No. Measuring is useless. Every experienced keeper has proved this. I have raised and kept some of the most difficult genera and have never once bothered with measuring. Not to mention they are often inaccurate and lead beginners astray. 

Doesn't prove anything. These are durable animals. Not to mention I have no idea what conditions that klugi is in.

Cult.. what crap. This is a collection of experienced keepers. One of the best sources for arachnid info in the world.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Whitelightning777 (Sep 13, 2017)

Ok, I'll ask again one more time. It's not hard.

Is a humidity range of 40-45% and a temperature setting of 68 degrees acceptable for C Versicolor and other Avics?

I'm saying no.


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## Whitelightning777 (Sep 13, 2017)

If you build a cabinet, which is totally unnecessary--a suggestion merely given to waste my money, how are you going to heat it up?

You'll need some combination of lamps or mats to do it.  Having a heat lamp about 8" away carefully controlled by a voltage controller is just as good.

The only thing that matters is conditions within the enclosure, having no hot spots that a T can burn itself with.


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## Venom1080 (Sep 13, 2017)

Whitelightning777 said:


> Ok, I'll ask again one more time. It's not hard.
> 
> Is a humidity range of 40-45% and a temperature setting of 68 degrees acceptable for C Versicolor and other Avics?
> 
> I'm saying no.


That was one line of 20. Without even being asked as a question. Clam down. 

I wouldn't know. I don't measure anything. I keep all my avics dry with a water dish for drinking. Some without dishes for a period of time. You getting stressed out about humidity is why we recommend not measuring it. 

Unless you live in a swamp or desert, there's not really any exceptions. 

68 is low. But I don't think it would kill the animal, as long as the vents aren't pointed towards the cage. Cold breezes certainly can. Growth would probably be slower than normal.

Given to waste your money!? Get lost.

You asked for suggestions and I gave you two that are known to work.
 **Don't ignore the other option either.**

Low watt heating cable running along the back. The insulation provided by the mostly closed off area allows you to warm the animals very efficiently.

Keep in mind you have two spiders. It doesn't have to be large.  

Also. You ignored my original comment. Why do you not agree with boina?


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## Whitelightning777 (Sep 13, 2017)

Well it might give additional protection from the cat!!

If I was doing 10 or 20 spiders, I'd have to for the power bills.  As it is, the lamp is 8" vertical inches away from the top of the enclosure and about 3" to the left.

For the Versicolor, there is no other heat source. The one lamp is shared with my scorpling cage.

The other one has the same type of lamp, but that one is even further away from the top, about 10" because that enclosure isn't as tall.

There is a heating mat on the side of the enclosure opposite from the skull that the spider uses as it's hide, eg its on the cold side.

Temps for that one trend at around 82 degrees and the humidity is at 60 percent.  That T has a burrow. I have no idea what microclimate is going on in there. It's a bit of a pet hole.

Before premolt, her appetite was mammoth, no other way to put it.

The thing is that if the climate was wrong, it would've killed them off during molting.

The cabinet would have to be a bit larger then what you think because of the 2 scorpion cages.

I like Jamie's tarantula enclosures from what I've seen of the design but haven't tried them.

I'm using Terrablue Professional series enclosures, with the exception of the Mantis cage and the Versicolor.  Those have a coated & bonded screen which prevents snagging of claws as well as critters chewing their way out. It is suitable for venomous animals that can cause serious bodily harm.

The tarantula keepers guide describes what screens to use and why. A call to the manufacturer confirmed that the cages are spider safe, no complaints received about legs breaking off etc.

The House of Tropicals pet store which sells that line uses the same enclosures for its animals. I was talking to the owner who says that they work fine now but the older ones were no good.

Reactions: Dislike 1 | Disagree 1


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## miss moxie (Sep 13, 2017)

@Venom1080  It's pointless. You notice how WL777 conveniently picks through what he thinks he can argue against and ignores the rest. No matter how flawed his logic is (A call to the manufacturer ensures the enclosure is safe for spiders-- because manufacturers would never lie to sell things. Quoting the tarantula keeper as a source of information when the AUTHOR, a member of this forum, is working on a revision because of how much outdated information is in it.) he'll keep spewing it out.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Whitelightning777 (Sep 13, 2017)

A manufacturer would be unlikely to knowingly sell junk. They'd have a boycott or law suit if they did.

To get burned like that, the heat source had to basically be in physical contact with the spider.  My lamps are over 8" away and only if the spider hangs out on the lid.

The heat is too widely distributed to spot burn anything. If you put a lamp in the enclosure or right on the top of the screen then yes an injury could occur.

I raised 22 scorplings (surprise delivery) in a Terra blue enclosure with a heat mat on the side and a lamp overhead.

Not even ONE was injured in any way, from the heat source or other scorplings. In addition to that, mommy scorp also lived the same way.

That's basically 23 experiments showing its safe for critters of a wide range of sizes. They have a lot of the same biology as tarantulas, book lungs blood chemistry etc.

In addition to that, both spiders have molted once and the scorplings molted many times each in the same setups.

The animals are doing fine. I'm not saying there's no other ways to do it. I'm surprised to hear anyone say that they don't even know what the humidity should be!!

Please don't mess with orchids if you feel that way!!

Here's the final proof. Versicolor looks gorgeous!!

Reactions: Disagree 2


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## Venom1080 (Sep 13, 2017)

Whitelightning777 said:


> A manufacturer would be unlikely to knowingly sell junk. They'd have a boycott or law suit if they did.
> 
> To get burned like that, the heat source had to basically be in physical contact with the spider.  My lamps are over 8" away and only if the spider hangs out on the lid.
> 
> ...


Scorpions are much more heat resistant than tarantulas. Most of them are evolved to live in deserts. A heat mats can still damage them, however, if unstated.

What kind of cages are you talking about? If it's a screen lid, then a claw can 100% get stuck in them. There is NO way around that. The seller wants money. 

Hanging doesn't happen often, in fact very rarely, but it can still happen. 

Tarantulas are NOT plants. 

Caribena need dry conditions. You having it in a humid set up with heat lamps and very few anchor points is just sad. You will find your sling dead on the ground one day, and if not, consider yourself stupidly lucky. 

And don't give me the whole "it's eating, it's doing great" thing, my first versicolor I kept same as you and it died the day after eating. 

How long have you owned this spider?? Very short if I recall correctly. Mine survived 3 months with poor care like yours before dying. Just you wait. Those pics show absolutely nothing.


In the end, your heating may be fine. But it's still ideal, tarantulas don't like light. Subjecting it to bright lights isn't how a responsible keeper raises their animals.

Reactions: Agree 4


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## AmberDawnDays (Sep 13, 2017)

@Whitelightning777 You mentioned several times in your posts that both of your Ts have molted once. How is making it through one molt a success for you? How is it that you think your made up methods trump others who have had success for years with this species? There have been many failures and successes in this hobby over years and years. There are so many people on AB who are willing to help and share their knowledge so you can be successful in this hobby. Not a single person wants to see you fail at this. If you fail, it ends in a dead T. and nobody wants that. Please consider listening and changing a few things about your setup. This isn't a game. This is actually life and death for your animal. Don't be so proud.



Whitelightning777 said:


> Telling someone to shut off the heating lights etc is basically a trick designed to get them to kill off their pets!!


Are you serious? Why? Why would anyone want you to kill your animals? I am here because I LOVE animals. I LOVE inverts and I want to be successful in this hobby just like I want you to be successful.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Love 1


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## sdsnybny (Sep 13, 2017)

Something about a dead horse comes to mind after reading this thread.
http://www.tarantulaforum.com/threa...m-hostile-t-cult-elsewhere.20955/#post-121301

Reactions: Informative 3 | Funny 2


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## Venom1080 (Sep 13, 2017)

sdsnybny said:


> Something about a dead horse comes to mind after reading this thread.
> http://www.tarantulaforum.com/threa...m-hostile-t-cult-elsewhere.20955/#post-121301


Thank you very much for this one..

Reactions: Agree 2


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## AmberDawnDays (Sep 13, 2017)

If this is a cult, will somebody please let me know who the cult leader is? I need to befriend that person. Also, how do I move up in rank? Does it go by years of experience or?

Reactions: Like 1


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## miss moxie (Sep 13, 2017)

Oh my god. Even people on -that- forum tell him his enclosure is too big!!  AND that TKG is outdated. But we're all a cult here, pffffff.

Oh sorry, this is supposed to be his vengeance post. We should play along.

Oh no, WL777, you've exposed us all for the inexperienced fools that we are!! I know it's late, but I've -got- to run to the nearest 24/7 pet store and get a heat lamp and a hygrometer so I can do things correctly. I've never been so wrong in my life, and truly-- I am humbled and in awe by you. How can we ever thank you for coming along to tell us that the system people used to use with high mortality rates is actually the best way to raise tarantulas?? Where were you years ago, when this hobby was suffering from the lack of your tutelage??

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Andrea82 (Sep 14, 2017)

Good to know. 
Sjeez, I never said that all heating devices were bad...I use a heatcable myself! 
Pompous comes to mind...a lot.


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## boina (Sep 14, 2017)

I didn't know there were conspiracy theorists even in the tarantula hobby 

1. What the ... would anyone gain from getting you to kill off your pets?
2. Why would anyone want you to wast your money? Nobody here is going to get it, after all.
3. Why would you believe a corporation of all things to give you honest and unselfish advice when, on the other hand, you believe every uninvolved tarantula keeper is out to get you?? 
4. And why do you keep bringing up other pets (Lasiodora, scorpions) with different needs and more importantly different sensitivities when we are talking about Avics?

There's not even any inherent logic in any of your posts.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## miss moxie (Sep 14, 2017)

boina said:


> I didn't know there were conspiracy theorists even in the tarantula hobby
> 
> 1. What the ... would anyone gain from getting you to kill off your pets?
> 2. Why would anyone want you to wast your money? Nobody here is going to get it, after all.
> ...


@boina If I've learned anything about conspiracy theorists, it is that nothing will change their mind. They don't make any sense and when presented with a logical, scientific argument they balk and backtrack and repeat their original argument-- CAN A TARANTULA RLY LIVE @ SUCH LOW TEMPS N HUMIDITY??? dint think so lozrs.

Just look at the thread he made about this on the other board. He's totally delusional in the way he tells it over there. Like a pathological liar, who has become so deluded that their story is nothing but the absolute truth and everyone presenting facts and evidence are just trying to hold him down from the truth.


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## Whitelightning777 (Sep 14, 2017)

Actually, others have sadly enough had issues here. Read the entire thing over there if you must.

I have to just disagree.  68-70 degrees and the low humidity around 40% or so might or might not be fatal, but they can't be ideal for critters that live close to the equator in weather that would give many Americans heatstroke who weren't acclimated to it.

Perhaps I'm an idiot. I just try to copy what nature has done for millions of years.

Look at it another way.  Let's say you were captured by aliens and offered 2 choices.

1 live in their conditions, which are 1.5x earth gravity, 50 degrees temperature, 30% humidity all in a prison cell based on ones used in supermax units.

2 live in a gymnasium sized cage with conditions mimicking Earth's climate from the town where you grew up.

The choice is obvious.  Of course, none of those conditions in either case are 100% genuine, but #2 is a lot closer and far less stressful.

You'd be far less likely to have panic attacks or attempt escape.  You'd also be far less likely to physically assault the aliens when they entered your cage for maintenance or other purposes.

And no, I'm not suggesting that aliens exist, unless you're a tarantula being kept by a human!!

Reactions: Creative 1


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## Venom1080 (Sep 14, 2017)

Whitelightning777 said:


> Actually, others have sadly enough had issues here. Read the entire thing over there if you must.
> 
> I have to just disagree.  68-70 degrees and the low humidity around 40% or so might or might not be fatal, but they can't be ideal for critters that live close to the equator in weather that would give many Americans heatstroke who weren't acclimated to it.
> 
> ...


Again!! This screams ignorance. Tarantulas are not humans, you can not compare the two! Especially when it comes to mental problems like panic attacks... That's simply absurd.

You can not fully copy what nature does. That's been beaten to death now. 

Low 70s are fine. 60s are not optimal. 

Humidity does not need to be measured
 These animals live in trees with many breezes! The humidity is low, regardless of their geographical location.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Whitelightning777 (Sep 14, 2017)

The humidity in my building is kept at a level designed to harm inverts, namely roaches centipedes and native true spiders. 

Whether that will also harm tarantulas or not is debatable. I don't want to find out the hard way!!

Tree level conditions also include wind, or at least the occasional tropical breeze!!

I want to speed up the growth rate slightly because slings are more vulnerable to a variety of issues and have an overall higher mortality rate then juveniles or adults.

If you look at footage of OBT or some others when transfers or maintenance happens, it's hard not to think that some type of fight/flight response is occurring.  Ditto for those that try to escape instead of attack. Watch transfer videos on YouTube of which there are thousands.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Venom1080 (Sep 14, 2017)

Whitelightning777 said:


> The humidity in my building is kept at a level designed to harm inverts, namely roaches centipedes and native true spiders.
> 
> Whether that will also harm tarantulas or not is debatable. I don't want to find out the hard way!!
> 
> ...


Consider a closet. Or a cabinet like I mentioned 3 times now. 

Air flow is a positive. But aiming a fan at a spiders cage-- especially one with near zero cover like yours-- is ridiculous. 

Of course breezes happen, that's probably why these animals do better at lower humiditys.

Heat lamps stress out spiders. These animals hunt in the dark, aiming a lamp at them is a bad idea. A heat mat would work much better.

All in all , your cage had low vent, bright lights, high humidity, and a fan pointed at it. It would be laughable if a animal didn't depend on it for survival.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Arachnopets (Sep 17, 2017)

AmberDawnDays said:


> If this is a cult, will somebody please let me know who the cult leader is? I need to befriend that person. Also, how do I move up in rank? Does it go by years of experience or?


Did someone call for a cult leader? 

Debby

Reactions: Funny 1 | Love 1 | Award 1


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## boina (Sep 17, 2017)

Whitelightning777 said:


> Actually, others have sadly enough had issues here. Read the entire thing over there if you must.
> 
> I have to just disagree.  68-70 degrees and the low humidity around 40% or so might or might not be fatal, but they can't be ideal for critters that live close to the equator in weather that would give many Americans heatstroke who weren't acclimated to it.
> 
> ...


The average temps in the city I grew up in are actually somewhere around 50F... But I grew up in a microclimate of my own making (i.e. inside a house). So if you put me in the climate I grew up in it would be cold and wet and I'd die pretty soon of pneumonia. That's exactly what you are doing with your Avic.

For the umpteenth time: You are NOT putting your Avic in the environment its relatives live in - because you have no clue what that is. Averages do not mean a .... thing. You put your Avic in an environment that your fantasy made up to be what it needs.

Reactions: Award 1


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## Whitelightning777 (Sep 18, 2017)

They can't see red spectrum light, which is why that tint exists for it.

I'll create more holes and measure the levels again. I'm not misting, spraying or anything else. Water all goes into the dish or if the cup is empty, one drop in the web first.

I'm getting sick of replacing USB fans!!

There's 2 areas that don't have holes, but face out. The paper background doesn't have to be there either.

Stay tuned. I'll update the data one I get new measurements for humidity again.

Reactions: Lollipop 1


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## Whitelightning777 (Sep 22, 2017)

The condensation hasn't returned, but now she seems to react more to people passing by but not excessively.  

I'm paranoid about keeping that water dish full!!

Overall, there's no significant change in behavior except for slightly more of a reaction.

The temperature is 2 degrees cooler, but that's not really the end of the world either.


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