# Leaf Hunting For Millipedes. Question



## REAL (Oct 23, 2007)

Okay, today I went around this school and picked up a bunch of hardwood leaves

Before we go on these are the definitions of hardwood and softwood that I found on the internet:

*SOFTWOOD*: _Softwoods come from coniferous trees like Pine, Fir, Spruce and Larch. Coniferous trees are cone bearing and often have needle-like leaves. Most are evergreen except the Larch which drops its needles in the winter (it is deciduous). They grow well in cold conditions and also grow quickly._

*HARDWOOD*: _Hardwoods come from broadleaved trees such as Oak, Ash and Beech. Broadleaved trees usually have wide leaves, which they lose in the winter in order to survive the cold. Some broadleaves, like Holly, have a waxy protection on their leaves which allows them to be evergreen. Broadleaved trees tend to be slower growing than conifers._

*Anyway a few questions*

-Many of you guys say African giant millipedes need hardwood leaves? So, is any hardwood leaves okay or just Oak tree leaves?

-Since I found them in the park I'm suppose to bake it or something? Can anyone clarify on that term? Like how am I suppose to disinfect them etc and anything I have to watch out for cause they were all found in a park so I don't know anything about them.

-I was trying to get some Oak leaves today and I'm not really sure, the ironic/sad thing is I live in OAK-land...and I think I'm surrounded by OAK trees...yet I'm not sure which ones they are...are the bottom leaves from oak trees?

(btw I told this to my gf and she got a good laugh from it so please be nice)


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## keqwow (Oct 23, 2007)

*....know your woods....*

I'm about good for two trees...oaks and maples.  Looks to me like you've got a pile of maple leaves   It is my understanding that you can simply freeze the leaves and that should kill most everything in there.  Some folks seem to go the extra mile and microwave them after they've freezed them.  I have access to an -80 degree freezer which I may try to use by itself.


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## REAL (Oct 23, 2007)

keqwow said:


> I'm about good for two trees...oaks and maples.  Looks to me like you've got a pile of maple leaves   It is my understanding that you can simply freeze the leaves and that should kill most everything in there.  Some folks seem to go the extra mile and microwave them after they've freezed them.  I have access to an -80 degree freezer which I may try to use by itself.


Oh...are maples as good as Oaks for african millipedes then?

Well which one should I do microwave or freeze it? Which one should be easier/faster and how long should i microwave if I choose to do so? and freezing?


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## spydrhunter1 (Oct 23, 2007)

keqwow said:


> I have access to an -80 degree freezer which I may try to use by itself.


-80 works great I usually leave the leaves in for about a week to ten days. With chunks of rotten wood I leave in for 2 to 3 weeks, so it freezes all the way to the center.


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## REAL (Oct 23, 2007)

Someone answer my above question please?


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## spydrhunter1 (Oct 23, 2007)

Never tried to microwave leaves so I don't know how effective it would be. I've always heard oak is more nutritious and contains more chitin.


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## keqwow (Oct 23, 2007)

*oak....*

Oak seems to be what everyone uses if they put leaves in with their millipedes.  Basically they freeze/microwave them to sterilize them before adding them to the tank.  Most folks dont have access to a super cold freezer (just a kitchen freezer), so they seem to feel if they ALSO microwave the leaves for a few minutes it will kill off whatever the freezing might have missed.  Whether or not this is actually doing anything I don't know.  Give it a try, and or do some more searches.  I can't add more than what I've read, as I don't yet have my own AGM....I'm working on reading up at the moment.


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## REAL (Oct 24, 2007)

keqwow said:


> Oak seems to be what everyone uses if they put leaves in with their millipedes.  Basically they freeze/microwave them to sterilize them before adding them to the tank.  Most folks dont have access to a super cold freezer (just a kitchen freezer), so they seem to feel if they ALSO microwave the leaves for a few minutes it will kill off whatever the freezing might have missed.  Whether or not this is actually doing anything I don't know.  Give it a try, and or do some more searches.  I can't add more than what I've read, as I don't yet have my own AGM....I'm working on reading up at the moment.


So um, I'm planning to freeze it for a few hours and maybe microwave it a tiny bit is that okay? How much microwaving should I do until its good?

Also, are you certain about maples being less nutritious than Oak?

DAMN WHERE'S THE OAK LEAVES WHEN I NEED THEM GRRRRRRRRRRRRR


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## Stylopidae (Oct 24, 2007)

250* for 2 hours is what I do to kill any nasties.

Those leaves are maple leaves, BTW (don't know if anyone already answered that).


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## REAL (Oct 24, 2007)

Questions:

1. If I microwave the leaves, does that mean I don't have to freeze it?

2. Is it really true that Oak leaves are more nutritious than Maple tree leaves?

3. Okay I went out leaf hunting again and I tried not to get the leaves that are really pointy (so said to be maple) like the one far above. 

So which one of these are Oak leaves? Is the one all the way to the right an Oak leaf cause I think it is and thats the one I collected the most so I'm hoping it is. I grouped them into three groups that I found. Group 1 left, group 2 right, group 3 botton middle. Group 2 is Oak I hope?







Thanks for the help!


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## Mr. Mordax (Oct 24, 2007)

None of those are oaks.  Here's a good example of oak leaves:






(Yes, I checked the copyright, it's safe to distribute ).

If you microwave, you shouldn't have to freeze.  Regarding your PM, I'd advise rinsing or wiping leaves free of dirt before microwaving.  If you do "wash" them, don't use soap.


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## spydrhunter1 (Oct 24, 2007)

Here's some links to different pics of oak leaves:
http://www.dekalbcounty.org/Forest/FP_Scrapbook/Flowers/oakLeaves.jpg
http://www.geraintsmith.com/potd/images/oak_rice_grass_8845.jpg
http://chujoe.net/images/253.jpg
http://bulldog.ci.irving.tx.us/insp...ens_and_shrubs/images/CherryBarkOakLeaves.jpg
http://images.mooseyscountrygarden.com/weather-seasons/autumn-leaves/oak-leaves-autumn.jpg


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## REAL (Oct 24, 2007)

Sigh...geez I live in OAK-land too!

what are those leaves then? I think I know where to go to get them maybe.

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

How do you guys really tell if they're Oak leaves or not?


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## Mr. Mordax (Oct 24, 2007)

As spyderhunter1 pointed out, not all oaks have lobed leaves -- some are pointy.  The best way to be certain is by the presence of acorns on the ground around the tree or even still in the branches.


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## RoachGirlRen (Oct 24, 2007)

I was told not to sterilize leaves but rather rinse them thoroughly in hot water, making sure no debris or pests remain, as some of the bacteria in rotting leaves is beneficial to gut flora? My guys have been thriving on well rinsed leaves, but this thread has me concerned that I've been misinformed. Maybe that only applied to the native pedes I was keeping? I feel silly now...

I feed primarily oak because it is so rich in chitin, but I honestly think that a varied diet is important to health, so I feed other hardwood leaves as well including maple, walnut, elm, etc. in lesser amounts. I feed oak and maple for wood.


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## REAL (Oct 24, 2007)

IHeartMantids said:


> As spyderhunter1 pointed out, not all oaks have lobed leaves -- some are pointy.  The best way to be certain is by the presence of acorns on the ground around the tree or even still in the branches.


So in the picture with the 3 groups of plants, group 2 which is the right one, is that similar to an acorn? I does eventually fall.

If its really not a oak, what is it?


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## Mr. Mordax (Oct 24, 2007)

I don't know what that is (or what any of those leaves are), but it's not an acorn.


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## REAL (Oct 24, 2007)

IHeartMantids said:


> I don't know what that is (or what any of those leaves are), but it's not an acorn.


Man, before when I didn't want to find any Oak leaves, they were everywhere...now I can't find any. I have to drive up to the lake tomorrow...

BLAH!! :wall: 

WHYYYYYYYY?!?!?!??! Its almost always like this. Oh well, I guess I'll feed the ducks while I'm there and look at the women jogging ( jk...sorta)


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## REAL (Oct 25, 2007)

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

Okay I finally got some more leaves and this time I'm 90% sure they're Oak leaves because

1. They tree with the leaves have acorns!!!

2. I ask some of the park workers!!

SO PLEASE TELL ME THESE ARE OAK TREE LEAVES I WENT ALL THE WAY TO THE LAKE :wall: 







ARE THE OAK LEAVES?????!?!?!?!??!

Oh yeah I'm going to microwave them and then wash them. Cause I don't think I'll like a bunch of soggy leaves in the microwave.


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## Mack&Cass (Oct 25, 2007)

RoachGirlRen said:


> I was told not to sterilize leaves but rather rinse them thoroughly in hot water, making sure no debris or pests remain, as some of the bacteria in rotting leaves is beneficial to gut flora? My guys have been thriving on well rinsed leaves, but this thread has me concerned that I've been misinformed. Maybe that only applied to the native pedes I was keeping? I feel silly now...
> 
> I feed primarily oak because it is so rich in chitin, but I honestly think that a varied diet is important to health, so I feed other hardwood leaves as well including maple, walnut, elm, etc. in lesser amounts. I feed oak and maple for wood.


Rinsing leaves is likely to be safe for exotic millipedes because they will be different enough from local pedes that most parasites won't be able to adapt. Most parasites, and some of the really nasty ones, have specific host that they frequent. Any NA parasites will not be adapted to infect big African or other tropical area species because they are too different.
Also be careful feeding kinds of leaves you aren't sure about. Many kinds of trees lace their leaves with toxic chemicals to prevent herbivory. I have no idea what tropical millipedes would find toxic however.


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## Mack&Cass (Oct 25, 2007)

REAL said:


> GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
> 
> ARE THE OAK LEAVES?????!?!?!?!??!
> 
> Oh yeah I'm going to microwave them and then wash them. Cause I don't think I'll like a bunch of soggy leaves in the microwave.


Yes those are oak leaves


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## REAL (Oct 25, 2007)

Mtisdale said:


> Yes those are oak leaves


REALLY??!@?!??!?!?!?!

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH YESSSSSSSS MUAHAHAHAHHAHA
MUAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHAAHHAHA

I WAS SO HAPPY WHEN I FOUND THE OAK TREE THAT I JUMPED UP AND DOWN AND THE PARK WORKERS THOUGHT I WAS A CRAZY DANGEROUS PERSON AND THEY CALLED PARK SECURITY ON ME

YAY!!!  ;P  

btw I just found out today there's an Oak tree right outside my house.... :wall: 

So......lets pretend it wasn't there so I can feel good about my achievements. YEAH!!!  

It has small leaves anyways....


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## Mr. Mordax (Oct 25, 2007)

Good for you!


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## REAL (Oct 26, 2007)

Uh, I put it in the microwave but it doesn't seem like the leaves are getting hot much, but the plate holding the leaf is getting really hot. Am I suppose to saturate the leaves first or something or what? I put it for 1.5 mins and the leaves are nowhere near burning.

The leaves are dry, am i just suppose to throw them in the microwave and thats it?


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## Mr. Mordax (Oct 26, 2007)

Microwaves work by giving molecular kinetic energy to water molecules (i.e., the molecules vibrate more) which translates as heat in macroscopic terms.  The reason the leaves don't feel hot is because they're already dry.

However, most microorganisms (such as pathogens you're trying to get rid of through this whole process) are mostly water -- meaning, if you've microwaved it long enough for the plate to heat up, then the microbes have most likely been killed at this point.

The leaves may have been at risk for burning because they can absorb heat from the plate through conduction.

I hope this answers your question.


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## REAL (Oct 26, 2007)

IHeartMantids said:


> Microwaves work by giving molecular kinetic energy to water molecules (i.e., the molecules vibrate more) which translates as heat in macroscopic terms.  The reason the leaves don't feel hot is because they're already dry.
> 
> However, most microorganisms (such as pathogens you're trying to get rid of through this whole process) are mostly water -- meaning, if you've microwaved it long enough for the plate to heat up, then the microbes have most likely been killed at this point.
> 
> ...


Ah! Okay, thats what I thought too because I studied science before, was just trying to make sure, thanks!


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## Drachenjager (Oct 28, 2007)

i feed hickory and oak leaves as thats whats in my yard. Also i find that the N. americanus tend to be concentrated more in the hickory leaf piles than the oak leaf piles. my AGBs have done well on both.
dont forget there are also live oaks that do not have lobed leaves and are evergreen lol


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