# Is this a good setup for my A. Chalcodes?



## chalcodesguy (Nov 18, 2018)

I was wondering if this would be a good enclosure setup for my A. Chalcodes. This is my first tarantula, and I am new to this, so I don't know what works and what doesn't. You can see I have a plant pot hide, some leaves sprinkled around, the blue water dish ( far right behind rock) and a heating pad on the back of the enclosure. Does this work for an A. Chalcodes, or should I add or remove anything? P.S. it gets really cold in my room at night which is why I have the heat pad. The T is about 2.5 inches legspan.


----------



## antinous (Nov 18, 2018)

Remove the heat pad, get a space heater if you really need to. Chances are you don’t, depending on your room temp. Add more substrate as well, a fall could lead to a dead tarantula.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2 | Disagree 1


----------



## kcuB yrogerG (Nov 18, 2018)

I agree with the above poster. All in All it looks good though, I tend to add more moss and decor though with my larger tanks. Some of my T's tend to come out more when theres a decent amount of "foliage"

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Newt83 (Nov 18, 2018)

How big is the Tarantula? Enclosure looks huge and you will need a lot more substrate. General rule is there should be no more than 1.5 times the diagonal leg span from the top of the enclosure to the substrate.  The leaves scattered about are unnecessary and if the room it’s in stays between 68-85F the heat pad isn’t needed. You can also break the pot in half or at least bury most of it.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## cold blood (Nov 18, 2018)

Lots of little issues.

First, the distance to the top is excessive...you really need to fill the tank just over halfway with sub to make it safe....its a fall risk as it sits now.

The hide, a pot can work, but it needs to be broken...hides should NEVER be dead ends...hides arent homes, they are starting points for burrows...think of the hide as merely the front door, not the house. 

A. chalcodes has no heat requirements, if you heat your home, you wont need additional heat...temps in the 60s arent a problem.   If you choose to heat, a space heater is a better choice....direct heat sources present a danger as ts are drawn to heat like a moth to a flame...and the doesnt need yhe heat any more than a moth needs a fire.  To use a mat you would want to heat a larger enclosure and put the t enclosure within that larger one.

If you have a screen top, that would also to be changed out as it also would present a risk.   A cut and drilled piece of acrulic or plexi work well...
	

		
			
		

		
	



Aside from that....how big is the t in quedtion?   The size of the enclosure would only be suitable for an adult.

Welcome to the boards.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Disagree 1


----------



## basin79 (Nov 18, 2018)

So long as you have the heat mat set up properly (attached to a thermostat) it's perfectly safe. You can ignore those who state they're dangerous etcetera. 

The only thing I'd do is either remove the rock or make sure it's sat at the bottom of the enclosure. Tarantulas dig and if yours digs under the rock it might become trapped or crushed.

Reactions: Disagree 1


----------



## Nightstalker47 (Nov 18, 2018)

Yeah, some more sub would be good, fill the tank up to the halfway mark at the very least. These do quite fine at room temp though so I doubt you need any additional heating. The extra sub depth wont go wasted either, this species will readily burrow and at times even build deep and elaborate tunnel systems.


----------



## basin79 (Nov 18, 2018)

cold blood said:


> direct heat sources present a danger as ts are drawn to heat like a moth to a flame...and the doesnt need yhe heat any more than a moth needs a fire. /QUOTE]
> 
> That's just untrue @cold blood unless you've got a paper on it. I heat all of my tarantulas via heat mats controlled by thermostats and none of them are drawn to the heat like you describe.
> 
> Proper sick to death of Americans making out heat mats are a danger etcetera just because they're not popular over there.





cold blood said:


> Lots of little issues.
> 
> First, the distance to the top is excessive...you really need to fill the tank just over halfway with sub to make it safe....its a fall risk as it sits now.
> 
> ...


That's just untrue @cold blood unless you've got a paper on it. I heat all of my tarantulas via heat mats controlled by thermostats and none of them are drawn to the heat like you describe. 

Proper sick to death of Americans making out heat mats are a danger etcetera just because they're not popular over there.

If tarantulas where drawn to the heat as described above they'd bask in the sun in the wild.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## antinous (Nov 18, 2018)

@basin79 I use an 'incubator' set up, heat mat taped to a larger styrofoam cooler and then place my slings enclosures in it (so it's not directly touching their enclosure and I leave the top ajar to ensure even if it does malfunction it won't get above 90 degrees) and most, esp. the smaller slings, tend to gravitate towards it (although I do have two thermostats hooked up to it). The problem isn't that it's always going to be dangerous for them, it's that there's a small chance that it can if it malfunctions. Many people choose to bypass the whole thermostat idea and that's when it becomes very dangerous. But I'd still play it safe and put the enclosure in a larger enclosure that's in direct contact with the heat mat if you really need the heat.



basin79 said:


> If tarantulas where drawn to the heat as described above they'd bask in the sun in the wild.


Not always true. Being out in nature presents a large variety of stimuli (wind, rain, vibrations created by other animals) that make them retreat into their burrows.


----------



## basin79 (Nov 18, 2018)

antinous said:


> @basin79 I use an 'incubator' set up, heat mat taped to a larger styrofoam cooler and then place my slings enclosures in it (so it's not directly touching their enclosure and I leave the top ajar to ensure even if it does malfunction it won't get above 90 degrees) and most, esp. the smaller slings, tend to gravitate towards it (although I do have two thermostats hooked up to it). The problem isn't that it's always going to be dangerous for them, it's that there's a small chance that it can if it malfunctions. Many people choose to bypass the whole thermostat idea and that's when it becomes very dangerous. But I'd still play it safe and put the enclosure in a larger enclosure that's in direct contact with the heat mat if you really need the heat.


Stating heat mats are dangerous because some don't connect then to a thermostat is like stating a chocolate bar is dangerous because some try to stab themselves in the eye with one.



antinous said:


> Not always true. Being out in nature presents a large variety of stimuli (wind, rain, vibrations created by other animals) that make them retreat into their burrows.


Well I'll also type something that's not true. Heat mats are dangerous and tarantulas are drawn to them like a moth to a flame. 

Unlike those who are typing that tripe I actually use them and have done for 20 years.

Reactions: Dislike 1 | Face Palm 1


----------



## Nightstalker47 (Nov 18, 2018)

Well, there have been many accounts of heat mats killing tarantulas, especially when placed under the enclosure...which is a lot more dangerous. The tarantula naturally wants to burrow deeper and cool down, but just gets closer and closer to the heat source.

If Basin hasn't had issues with them placed on the sides then there's evidently a way of doing it safely, hard to argue that...also impossible to argue that they have never caused tarantula related fatalities. I have seen several instances of this myself, and I believe that's why we they are often discouraged...especially with newer keepers.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## chalcodesguy (Nov 18, 2018)

Thanks for the info, the T seems to love the heat pad, she is up against it alot. Sometimes I think she gets too warm and walks away from it to her hide, so that's why I keep it in there.


----------



## antinous (Nov 18, 2018)

chalcodesguy said:


> Thanks for the info, the T seems to love the heat pad, she is up against it alot. Sometimes I think she gets too warm and walks away from it to her hide, so that's why I keep it in there.


I'd personally use a thermostat if you do use a heat mat, as @basin79 said it can work, but a thermostat would be advised.


----------



## basin79 (Nov 18, 2018)

Nightstalker47 said:


> Well, there have been many accounts of heat mats killing tarantulas, especially when placed under the enclosure...which is a lot more dangerous. The tarantula naturally wants to burrow deeper and cool down, but just gets closer and closer to the heat source.
> 
> If Basin hasn't had issues with them placed on the sides then there's evidently a way of doing it safely, hard to argue that...also impossible to argue that they have never caused tarantula related fatalities. I have seen several instances of this myself, and I believe that's why we they are often discouraged...especially with newer keepers.


Again using them UNDER an enclosure is akin to using a drill to pop a zit. Not the drill's fault the user was an idiot. Same with a heat mat. 

Can't think of something else used wrong that takes the full blame like a heat mat does. 

"I itched my eye with a plugged in soldering iron and it blinded me" 

Soldering irons are dangerous!!!!!!



antinous said:


> I'd personally use a thermostat if you do use a heat mat, as @basin79 said it can work, but a thermostat would be advised.


A thermostat isn't advised it's VITAL. 

The same as you yanks wouldn't use an oil filled radiator that didn't have a built in thermostat.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


----------



## Nightstalker47 (Nov 18, 2018)

basin79 said:


> Again using them UNDER an enclosure is akin to using a drill to pop a zit. Not the drill's fault the user was an idiot. Same with a heat mat.
> 
> Can't think of something else used wrong that takes the full blame like a heat mat does.
> 
> ...


Well, that comparison is pretty exaggerated mate...they are literally sold as "under tank heat mats". Besides, we all know most beginners just cant tell the difference between good and bad advice...doesn't mean they are all stupid, just misinformed.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## basin79 (Nov 18, 2018)

Nightstalker47 said:


> Well, that comparison is pretty exaggerated mate...they are literally sold as "under tank heat mats". Besides, we all know most beginners just cant tell the difference between good and bad advice...doesn't mean they are all stupid, just misinformed.


If someone isn't willing to do even the most basic research then they are stupid. Well stupid and selfish.

I'm not after falling out with anyone. I'm just sick to death of a perfectly SAFE heating method deemed unsafe because some choose to misuse it. 

If a space heater got messed with so the thermostat didn't work you wouldn't deem them dangerous. 

Apologies OP for the detour.

@fleetwoodmcc care to expand?

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## The Seraph (Nov 18, 2018)

Just wanted to say, don't leave feeders alone in the cage with a tarantula. They could harm it while it is molting or otherwise vulnerable. Also, you don't really need a feeding schedule if you have one, just make sure the abdomen is not shriveled up. If you already knew this then I apologize for insulting your intelligence. It just looks like you followed a pet store employees advice. Don't do that. They do not know what they are doing 95% of the time and the advice they give is often harmful.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Chris LXXIX (Nov 18, 2018)

I have nothing useful to add because everything was basically covered but let me point out my two cents about stones (or for that matter other hard objects) inside the enclosures.

As 'cool' as they can be (not for me, but anyway, I do not judge personal tastes) they are always a 'Russian roulette', if you ask me. You never know if the spider would try to climb (and this can happens, especially to recent rehoused ones) and, in the case of honestly kinda 'goofy/clumsy' slow spiders (like _A.chalcodes_ are, unlike agile arboreals) you don't want that your spider could land straight in such stone.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 1


----------



## chalcodesguy (Nov 18, 2018)

Thanks Everyone! This is the new enclosure. Is this better, or are there more things missing?

Reactions: Like 3


----------



## basin79 (Nov 18, 2018)

You can facepalm all you want @cold blood but as a mod you shouldn't post lies regarding heat mats.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Face Palm 1


----------



## Teal (Nov 18, 2018)

chalcodesguy said:


> View attachment 292636
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looking good! If it strikes your fancy, you can add foliage (real or fake) again. They don't benefit the spider, but there is nothing wrong with making the tank look appealing to you.


----------



## cold blood (Nov 18, 2018)

basin79 said:


> You can facepalm all you want @cold blood but as a mod you shouldn't post lies regarding heat mats.


Heres the thing that gets me facepalming HARD.

I probably have over 100 posts on AB explaining how to use a heat mat safely, so when you go claiming the "demonization" (for lack of a better term) of mats,  you are completely and totally ignoring the fact that i (and several others) suggest and explain the right ways to use a mat.  Heck* I even mentioned safe mat use in my post you disagreed with.   *Something you seem to miss every time its posted.

Another fact is that when you buy a heat mat, 99.9% of people are going to use it as the directions tell them to...which is how you heat reptiles, not ts...this is because these mats are 100% designed for use with reptiles, which have completely and totally different heat requirements...people need to know that mats cannot be used in the manner they were intended.

So instead of getting offended, realize that mats are suggested almost daily by the very people you complain about.

There are many ways to add heat, there are two ways that have the possibility of being the most dangerous methods for heating ts....mats used in conventional fashion are one of those 2 potentially dangerous methods.

Reactions: Like 2 | Award 2


----------



## basin79 (Nov 18, 2018)

cold blood said:


> Heres the thing that gets me facepalming HARD.
> 
> I probably have over 100 posts on AB explaining how to use a heat mat safely, so when you go claiming the "demonization" (for lack of a better term) of mats,  you are completely and totally ignoring the fact that i (and several others) suggest and explain the right ways to use a mat.  Heck* I even mentioned safe mat use in my post you disagreed with.   *Something you seem to miss every time its posted.
> 
> ...


I'm not offended. I'm bewildered. You have lied regarding heat mats yet you're trying to state otherwise. It's not the fault of the heat mat if those buying them chose to use them wrong. 

You yanks are all space heaters or go home. Here in the UK heat mats are very popular with keepers and we manage just fine. 

Instead of peddling utter rubbish maybe you should state FACTS.

Reactions: Funny 2


----------



## Chris LXXIX (Nov 18, 2018)

basin79 said:


> You yanks are all space heaters or go home.


The best statement of today, by a long shot 



basin79 said:


> Here in the UK heat mats are very popular with keepers and we manage just fine.



As strange as this could be, here in Italy since forever a lot of keepers (including people I trust, long time breeders and keepers) use those (in the intelligent way, I mean, just like you guys in the UK, Germany etc).

I was crucified in the launch room ('Fantozzi' movie quote) because I've pointed out that, here in Italy (and I do live in one of the coldest regions of Italy) we doesn't have the harsh Winters of England, Scotland, Norway etc therefore room temperature was and is fine.

Almost started a third world war but no space heater was involved


----------



## cold blood (Nov 18, 2018)

basin79 said:


> I'm not offended. I'm bewildered. You have lied regarding heat mats yet you're trying to state otherwise. It's not the fault of the heat mat if those buying them chose to use them wrong.
> 
> You yanks are all space heaters or go home. Here in the UK heat mats are very popular with keepers and we manage just fine.
> 
> Instead of peddling utter rubbish maybe you should state FACTS.


Fact....heat mats fail...when they do, sometimes they quit, sometimes they over heat...ive had it happen more than once.


fact...thermostats fail as well.


fact...while your method works, its simply not the #1 safest method of heat...its just A method to heat...people are merely offering safer, more foolproof methods...nothing wrong with that.

fact....most people being sold or buying mats are buying the common zoomed ones, at least here in the states...these mats typically DO NOT have thermostats...maybe things are sold differently in the UK, but not here.  We have thermostats on some, but they are not the ones commonly bought and used here....so for anyone with one of these simpler mats, your thermostat suggestion is, well irrelevant.   Its good info for those with that kind of mat, which is why no one has a problem with your suggestion of making sure to have one.



I am not lying about anything, the fact you claim this just shows your frustrations...nothing I have said has been a lie...not even close.  

When we reccomend heating to people, its important to note the dangers and correct and incorrect uses of each method....

The difference is like you saying seatbelts are good enough and complaining when i say adding airbags is safer and then calling me a liar because you believe in belts or dont believe in air bags or think airbags are a waste of money.    What you do is fine, but it doesnt automatically mean its the best or safest way for everyone.

Disagree with me all day, i can live with that, call me a liar and you are crossing a line.



basin79 said:


> you yanks are all space heaters or go home. Here


Then explain why we CONSTANTLY tell people of safe ways to use mats?   Explain why I regularly bring up heat baths?

Altrrnative methods are brought up on a consistent basis...just because we often suggest space heaters, doesnt mean we claim its the only way

Space heaters are favored here, as well as by a lot of Eoropeans as well.   But we also recognize (and bring up) alternatives for those that cant or wont use space heaters.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## basin79 (Nov 19, 2018)

cold blood said:


> Fact....heat mats fail...when they do, sometimes they quit, sometimes they over heat...ive had it happen more than once.
> 
> 
> fact...thermostats fail as well.
> ...


ANYTHING electrical can fail. Fact. There's just as much chance of the thermostat failing in a space heater than a mat stat. So that's a moot point. 

If used the correct way even a failed thermostat won't turn the mat into a hot plate. They only time a mat will ever get dangerously hot is if they're misused and thermal blocking occurs. 

And like it or not this forum is chock full of ill informed on the subject of mats. They're deemed dangerous. I've seen loads of posts that say "get rid of the heat mat". 

Anyway. I've said my 2p worth.


----------



## Paul1126 (Nov 19, 2018)

basin79 said:


> Proper sick to death of Americans making out heat mats are a danger etcetera just because they're not popular over there.
> 
> If tarantulas where drawn to the heat as described above they'd bask in the sun in the wild.


I don't want to start any arguments here, but I heat my room using my wall mounted convector heater, once the room reaches 23 degrees, most of my Ts will be climbing towards the heat source. Once it cools down at night to 20 degrees they all stop climbing.
I would much rather use my homes heating than heat pads.


----------



## basin79 (Nov 19, 2018)

Paul1126 said:


> I don't want to start any arguments here, but I heat my room using my wall mounted convector heater, once the room reaches 23 degrees, most of my Ts will be climbing towards the heat source. Once it cools down at night to 20 degrees they all stop climbing.
> I would much rather use my homes heating than heat pads.


Absolutely nothing wrong with preference. 

If I had a large room just for tarantulas I'd use a radiator.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## FrDoc (Nov 19, 2018)

Ah, the heat mat debate.  Some points of consideration in the context of this thread:

1) The OP is new to the hobby, and he is 13 according to his profile, so I’m guessing he may need to receive instruction as to proper use of the heat mat he already utilizes, and alternative options.

2) Stressing with the lad that T’s aren’t that cold sensitive to generally warrant any artificial heat in the average home.  He keeps a North American desert species, I have family in Phoenix, Arizona and heard of 40 degree temps a few days ago, point being deserts get cold, and T’s flourish.

3) I’m thinking this debate, which morphed into something far beyond the young man’s question as to whether or not his enclosure was proper for his spider, may not have presented the most cordial introduction to the AB community.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Helpful 1


----------



## The Grym Reaper (Nov 19, 2018)

To get fully back on topic. It's not the worst beginner setup I've seen but:

- There's too much vertical space in the enclosure. The space between the top of the substrate and the top of the enclosure shouldn't exceed 1.5x the tarantula's diagonal leg span (measured from the tip of the front leg on one side to the tip of the rear leg on the opposite side) so you're going to need to either add much more substrate or use a smaller enclosure.

- A hide should be open ended to allow the tarantula to burrow underneath it (this species does burrow, pic of my A. chalcodes female burrowing below), a slab of cork bark works well for this (I prefer to part bury them).

View media item 46683
- If the leaves are from outside then I'd get rid of them (stuff from outside could be contaminated with pests or pesticides).

- I'd do away with the large rock as well, if the tarantula falls on it then it can rupture its abdomen and die, if it burrows underneath it then it could get crushed and die.

- The general rule for temps is that anything over 65°F is fine but this species should be able to tolerate overnight lows pretty well. 

To be honest, I'm sick of the heat mat debate, they're used frequently in the UK/Europe without issue. 

If you only have a couple of Ts to heat then statted mats are much more cost effective than running even the most energy efficient space heater (<100W for several mats controlled by one stat vs 450W for a low power oil filled radiator), something to consider if you aren't the bill payer. I used mats up until the point where I had enough tarantulas to justify the switch (my heat mats are now used to heat my reptiles and roach colonies seeing as they need higher temps than I can tolerate existing in).

If you have to use the heat mat then you need to have it rigged up to a good thermostat and preferably a surge protector as well, you're already doing better than most newbies by placing it on the side rather than underneath the tank but it needs to be away from the hide.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## cold blood (Nov 19, 2018)

basin79 said:


> ANYTHING electrical can fail. Fact. There's just as much chance of the thermostat failing in a space heater than a mat stat. So that's a moot point.


Agreed....but its hard to tell when mats fail...on top of that, you need a mat for each enclosure done your way...fine if you only have a few larger adults.   Do you keep dwarves?  Slings?   If so a mat would overwhelm their small enclosures, so you would need to do it the way i suggest....thats heating a larger enclosure with a mat and placing the small enclosures in that.

Your way is also not really workable if you have a bunch of ts, but fine for a few....take a guy with 30 ts....you need 30 mats plugged in?.....or one space heater.

When a space heater fails, its easy to notice immidiately....not the case with mats.



basin79 said:


> f used the correct way even a failed thermostat won't turn the mat into a hot plate.


Not my experiences....In my limited mat useage, I have had 4 fail...2 just quit working, the other two completely over heated...one cooked a ball python, one actually cracked the aquarium glass it was mounted to.



basin79 said:


> e it or not this forum is chock full of ill informed on the subject of mats. They're deemed dangerous. I've


Even you admit improper use of a mat is dangerous....and when that improper use for ts, is exactly how 99% of people use them, and how the companies tell you to use them, well we get a lot of heating problems with mats and ts.  

But again, i cant tell you how many times I have suggested heating a large enclosure with a mat and placing t enclosure within that....which is the safest way to use a mat as ypi retain the heat and completely eliminate hot spots caused by direct contact.  

Again, i agree that mats can absolutely be used safely, just not in the way most use them and not in the manner in which they were designed to be used.

For larger collections or small enclosures though, a space heater is often the superior option.


----------



## basin79 (Nov 19, 2018)

cold blood said:


> Agreed....but its hard to tell when mats fail...on top of that, you need a mat for each enclosure done your way...fine if you only have a few larger adults.   Do you keep dwarves?  Slings?   If so a mat would overwhelm their small enclosures, so you would need to do it the way i suggest....thats heating a larger enclosure with a mat and placing the small enclosures in that.
> 
> Your way is also not really workable if you have a bunch of ts, but fine for a few....take a guy with 30 ts....you need 30 mats plugged in?.....or one space heater.
> 
> ...


I use large mats to heat multiple enclosures. 

I've honestly only ever heard of mats causing damage used under enclosures. Thermal blocking is absolutely dangerous. Both with sub and large bodied snakes. 

Like I typed if I had a large room just with tarantulas I'd 100% use a space heater/radiator as it'd make more sense in that situation.

Reactions: Like 1


----------

