# paloma dwarf



## josh_r

i thought i would take a trip out today to see if the A. paloma have unplugges their burrows. they usually have their burrows unplugged by a few weeks ago, but with all the rain and cold weather, they have delayed activity. well, looks like they are just starting to become active cause i found a few today. 

here are some habitat shots
















now, when you first spot the burrows, they dont look like much. typically, people overlook their burrows or think they are a wolf spider. paloma tend to make perfectly round burrows no larger than a dime. the burrow structure is also different from most other spider species.

burrow






size comparison. this burrow is an adult female burrow






me digging up the burrow












the burrows typically go just into the soil at an angle and then widen up then go straight down. sometimes they spiral and other times, they dont. the burrow will go straight down about a foot or so then either cut straight back or double back on itself. it is very easy to lose a burrow if you do not know what to expect. the burrows are no wider than a pen in some places as well. but when all your effort pays off, heres what ya get












here is a size comparison. these are fullgrown adult females!











these are one of my absolute favorite natives. they are much better looking in person as well. they are light silver/gray with an olive green/brown hue over the body and legs. amazing spiders!

-josh

Reactions: Like 2


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## lostriverdoc

Fantastic pics. I love going out and finding the local dwarf species here in So. Arizona. What state are you finding the a.paloma in. That pic of the one you have in your hand appears to be about the same size as the aphonopelma species I find here.


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## GailC

What a cute little T Is this species ever offered for sale? I love dwarfs and wouldn't mind getting a pair.


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## josh_r

lostriverdoc said:


> Fantastic pics. I love going out and finding the local dwarf species here in So. Arizona. What state are you finding the a.paloma in. That pic of the one you have in your hand appears to be about the same size as the aphonopelma species I find here.



actually, i live in phoenix, az. this spider was found just north of phoenix. this species has a very large range through western and central arizona. what part of arizona do you live in??? do you have a photo of the dwarf species you find?


waldo, this species is VERY RARELY offered for sale. i believe it is because most people dont bother with the dwarf species as they lack the impressive size.

-josh


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## lostriverdoc

I live in Whetstone about 60mi. south of Tucson. I'll post a pic after work today. I found a couple of males while hiking Carr Canyon but left them there. Recently found one I believe is a female @ Ramsey Canyon and decided to keep this one.


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## josh_r

ah the whetstone area. your spider could be several differnt things. post a pic and lets see if its something i know. there are a few species that are unnamed down that way.

-josh


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## John Apple

Talked with Josh for a couple hours last night and he is a cool cat.
The pics are amazing and I can't wait to see what else you catch and post.


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## pinkzebra

Great photos and very informative post. Thanks for sharing! I love our native species and have trouble finding info about them in their natural habitat.


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## josh_r

thank you for the generous comment john. you are a cool cat as well. its nice to finally meet someone who loves the dwarf T's as much as i do.

pinkzebra, the only thing i can tell you about learning where and how to find things is.... do your homework and then put in the field time. ive learned everything i know from just getting out there and doing it. 

-josh


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## lostriverdoc

Here is the dwarf I promised to share with everyone.Any ideas on what species?


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## josh_r

that looks like the dark phase of paloma. the paloma i have are far northern populations and are olive green/brown with a silver hue to them. the southern populations tend to be more dark smokey gray as your animal is. she is a very nice looking spider. great find! did you find her in flat desert or an alluvial fan with fairly rich granite/sand soil??


 ive been wanting to get further down south and get some of the dark paloma. just havnt had the time so far. now is the time to do it as they are just unplugging their burrows. i should go look this weekend.

-josh


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## lostriverdoc

Found her on Brown Ranch @ the base of Ramsey Canyon. Was walking the road that leads onto Brown Ranch and came upon some holes and was able to get her to come out.
The road and surrounding area is somewhat flat grassy desert.
This is a pic of the area. Found her about 100 yards to the right of the ruins.


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## josh_r

yep, that is prime paloma habitat. are they abundant there?? tehre are some other dwarf species in your area that area VERY COOL! i can PM you some localities for some cool stuff if your ever in teh mood for some bug hunting

-josh


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## lostriverdoc

That would be great. I'm always out and about flipping things for scorps and looking for T burrows. Have found many male T's out and about, but only find females once in awhile. Getting ready to do some herping to add to my collection of reptiles. The Dragoons are great for that.


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## josh_r

the dragoons are very cool! ive never herped there, but ive always wanted to stop on the way to the chiricahuas. what kinda herps do u collect?? ive done LOTS of herping down there as well as bug hunting. we should get together this summer. the most variability is right down in your neck of the woods. i love it down there!

-josh


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## josh_r

lookin at the pic of your spider some more, that may be one of the random unnamed dwarfs that live down there. i would have to get a good look at it up close to tell. the urticating patch on your animal looks very large. paloma have very small urticating patches. does your animal flick hairs at all?? also, does your animal do the cryptic walk with the abdomen way up in the air and the chelicera spread?? i am definitely going to have to come check your spider out sometime.

-josh


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## lostriverdoc

Has not flicked in the 4 or 5 months I had it. Just molted over the past week and it does walk with it's butt up in the air. Prior to the molt it was a very dull gray. The colors you see may just be adult coloring. Have a number of herps, Cali, Desert King , Mex. Black, Az. Mountain King. 4 western diamondbacks, black mohave, and a Az. blacktail (desert phase). Will be looking for a normal green Mohave and a mountain phase Az. blacktail.


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## pinkzebra

Oh man, I am so envious that you two have these creatures in your backyard practically. I'd LOVE to be able to go T hunting but I live all the way in east bumble....Maybe someday, on a vacation or something.

Good luck on your herping and T ventures!


Jen


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## lostriverdoc

Lived here for 5 years now, but didn't see my first scorp or T for the first 2 years. I can go out anytime for a walk into the mountains by my house and find a half doz. v. spinigeris or c. exilicauda within an hour of searching. My wife took my two boys to a cub scout meeting in the early fall and came home with an a. chalcodes. I'm training her well And the weather's not bad either.


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## josh_r

lostriverdoc, i got rid of 2 VERY HI YELLOW blacktails from down south last year. they were amazing! check my photobucket page for pics. 

http://s243.photobucket.com/albums/ff288/pascoman81/

the links to the left are my different folders.

my first year in arizona, i was finding schmidti, flagstaff oranges, behlei and i had found hualapai on many occasions during visits before i moved here. i had it pretty good right from the get go. we need to hook up sometime riverdoc

-josh


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## lostriverdoc

josh;
Those are some beautiful pics. Here's a pic of my little one taken back in November.


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## josh_r

very nice youngster! they are best when you get them at that size. i had a speck that i found when it was a neonate and it was the best captive ever! 

you are not at all far from the bright yellow blacktails. should be easy for you to find one in the next few months. 

-josh


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## lostriverdoc

Just got my Az. Game & Fish Wildlife Holders/ Exhibitors Lic. I'm looking to open an exhibit focusing on reptiles and arachnids of the desert southwest in Tombstone within the next month and hope to add a few more crotalus and native T's to the collection.


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## josh_r

very cool. let me know when as i can help you get specimens.


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## lostriverdoc

We're looking to be in there around the 1st week of April and spending the first couple of weeks building cages, displays and just getting ready for the busy season.


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## Spike

Too bad you don't see a.paloma fs much on dealer lists... Bet they would make a great pet dwarf species.


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## John Apple

Yes They Would
Hopefully this year there will be some captive born ones,,:clap:  I also have it on good authority that the babies are rather large easy to raise lil'T''s


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## hamfoto

Would be interesting to see if people can get CB sacs...they have a pretty specific yearly cycle.
They are VERY cool spiders...

Chris


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## josh_r

their yearly cycle isnt too specific..... actually not very at all. they are very easy to breed and raise in captivity. like john said, dont be surprised if there are some available in the very near furute 

-josh


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## hamfoto

Oh, I'm not saying that you can't breed them in captivity or that they're not hardy...just saying that their natural history (in the wild) is very cyclical with specific times of the year when you can find them and times you can't (per Dr. Prentice, Dr. Hendrickson, and Dave Moellendorf).

Chris


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## josh_r

that is very true. that is only due to the harshness of the climate they live in. they are forced to. in captivity, they do just fine without it

-josh


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## Brent H.

Based on what Josh has told me (and as evidenced by his recent posts), these little guys are active much more than I thought.  They likely have a highly abbreviated breeding season, but I was led to believe that burrows were only active for a month or so in November/December.  It sounds like they are active almost year round, except for maybe a month or two during the winter and summer.  Cool stuff!


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## John Apple

yes they are awsome spiders , legspan would fit on a half dollar


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## hamfoto

Cool!  Then maybe I will be able to find some this summer when I'm out there...I would love that!

Chris


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## josh_r

Brent H. said:


> Based on what Josh has told me (and as evidenced by his recent posts), these little guys are active much more than I thought.  They likely have a highly abbreviated breeding season, but I was led to believe that burrows were only active for a month or so in November/December.  It sounds like they are active almost year round, except for maybe a month or two during the winter and summer.  Cool stuff!


yes, they are active longer than most people think. their activity varies on the temps that year. in warmer years, they tend to come out in late feb/ early march. this year, they didnt come out until mid/late march. they came out about 3 weeks later than they normaly do. they seem to remain very active intil late april/early may and seriously reduce their activity during the hot summer months. it seems they are not active during the monsoons months. i believe they plug their burrows as they are typically found in flat ares near or in washes. they tend to resume some activity after the monsoons. but by far the best time is late winder/ early spring. remember, this is my observations for the species in the sonoran desert. it may not be dead on as i have not gone out to look for them consistently throughout the year. i should though and take some good notes. 

-josh


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## josh_r

lostriverdoc said:


> Here is the dwarf I promised to share with everyone.Any ideas on what species?



i dont think that is paloma actually. i think this is the unnamed dwarf that is also found south into mexico. the urticating patch and body structure is a bit off. hair structure is off as well. very cool spider though


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## MaartenSFS

Very cool little spiders. I've been looking for mygalomorphs myself, with no luck, yet, though I live in Southern China. I think that the dwarf breeds are interesting and I think there's a lot more to find, even in places people think as being well-researched. I'm in an extremely under-researched area and I don't trust Chinese biologists. Like Josh said, learn by flipping. 

P.S. Do you blokes usually go "hunting" by yourself or with a club? I'm all alone in my interest over here. Chinese freak out when they see a Huntsman, let alone anything larger or a Scolopendramorpha, and, even if they don't, they would think it mad to actively search for them.


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## josh_r

when i go hunting, it is usually with ONE other person. very rarely is it with a group. i tend to never go alone just incase something happens, there is a second person there to help


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## lostriverdoc

I had this one in a small container with a screened top. The little one escaped just a few days after posting that pic through a small hole in the top that I didn't even notice. Today I got a call from my wife while I was @ work to tell me that one of my son's found her in the room next to where we keep all our reptiles and arach's" alive and healthy". When I got home I placed her in a more secured home with a hide and water dish. She took a nice long drink from the water dish and settled in. I can't believe she has been found alive after nearly two months. She is my favorite T. and I am unbelievably happy she is back.


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## josh_r

oh man! thats a relief!! yes, that is a very cool species! i need to get me some of these. i has a few like 3 years back. shoulda kept them. 

-josh


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## lostriverdoc

Went out to the same area a few weeks ago to look for some more but the grass there was so high it made hunting very difficult. Had my wife and kids along but didn't want them wading through the grass because of the amount of Mohave's and Diamondback's we have here. Just don't want to take chances like that.


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## josh_r

i know what you mean! every time i go down tehre during the summer, im affraid to even get out of the car because of how friggin common the mojaves are. the grass grows right over the side of the roads too. makes it even worse. do you ever see hognose snakes down there??


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## lostriverdoc

I have only seen one in the 5 years I have been here. Also have only seen one Az. Mtn. King and that was two years ago." LOL" She is a sweetheart and very rarely musks (except when my 9year old son holds her.)


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## MaartenSFS

josh_r said:


> when i go hunting, it is usually with ONE other person. very rarely is it with a group. i tend to never go alone just incase something happens, there is a second person there to help


I'm in the perfect place to hunt, but there just aren't many Chinese people with interest (luckily?) and most there are too little Westerners to have representatives of the crazier "groups" like the one we subscribe to. :wall:

I suppose I'll have to go solo.


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## josh_r

MaartenSFS said:


> I'm in the perfect place to hunt, but there just aren't many Chinese people with interest (luckily?) and most there are too little Westerners to have representatives of the crazier "groups" like the one we subscribe to. :wall:
> 
> I suppose I'll have to go solo.



gotta do what ya gotta do, just be safe if your going alone. good luck and keep us informed of your findings!


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## josh_r

lostriverdoc said:


> I have only seen one in the 5 years I have been here. Also have only seen one Az. Mtn. King and that was two years ago." LOL" She is a sweetheart and very rarely musks (except when my 9year old son holds her.)


very nice snake. i found a pyro when i was in the pajaritos a couple years back. they are supposed to be really hard to find in that mountain. i tell ya its the nicest looking pyro ive seen yet. they really are stunning animals.


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## josh_r

oh, heres A. hualapai pics


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## lostriverdoc

Nice. looks like a mini a. Chalcodes. I have a Female Hognose but it's c/b not w/c. I haven't taken any pics of her yet, but I'll post one as so as I do. Very difficult to find Hogs they are only found down near the border around the Douglas area from what I've read (but you know the old saying. Can't believe everything you read)


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## lostriverdoc

Here's a pic of my Hog. As you can see from her eye, she's about ready to shed and I had to take a quick one as she wouldn't sit still.


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## MaartenSFS

josh_r said:


> gotta do what ya gotta do, just be safe if your going alone. good luck and keep us informed of your findings!


Will do. 

Cool snakes, by the way. I haven't seen any snakes near Guilin, but I saw a juvenile cobra in my wife's hometown and that was an amazing experience.  Supposedly there are king cobras around here somewhere..


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## josh_r

lostriverdoc said:


> Here's a pic of my Hog. As you can see from her eye, she's about ready to shed and I had to take a quick one as she wouldn't sit still.



very nice specimen. a buddy of mine and i went to the salt flat playa near willcox and found box turtles and some hognose one year. that was the year we discovered how many mojave rattlers there are out there..... scary numbers


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## lostriverdoc

Wanted to share my last find. Found this while walking with the wife and kids a month ago not 200 yards from our house. Was just lying motionless on the ground and I thought it was fake. Upon closer examination it started to move, so I scooped it up and carried it home in a cup. This is about as big as it gets (talk about dwalf species) Species is " Sonora semiannulata" (Ground Snake)and is considered mildly venonous as is the Hognose.


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## josh_r

i found a sonora jusr around the corner from where i live in a VERY WELL DEVELOPED neigborhood in phoenix..... it was so wierd. my girlfriend and i were driving to get some dinner one night and i guess ive alwasy got my radar on... i yelled, "SNAKE" and sure enough.....it was a very plain morph. no pattern, just tan with a red snout. very cool.

-josh


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## lostriverdoc

There is a few different color variations of this species even from the same area. I could go out fielding 10 weekends in a row all day long and find  nothing at all. And just go for a walk with the family and find things I've never found before. Go figure.


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## josh_r

i think there are 5 color morphs of sonora... could be wrong..


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## Bugs In Cyberspace

Spoke with Josh on the phone for a good amount of time today. Really nice talking to you Josh! I'll be touring the lower part of Arizona again this summer and hope to meet up with Josh for a neat day trip.

Anyway, back in 2001, I was coming from California towards Tucson. I know we were past Yuma and we took the turn South (after Paloma) onto Hwy 85 towards Ajo. Somewhere in this general area, I turned over a board that we saw about thirty feet off the roadside. Underneath we found a leopard gecko, some death feigning beetles and the tarantula at the following link. I've always wondered what it was. Anybody have a clue? I know the photo quality isn't all that great, but maybe somebody can cross-reference the locality and photo info. and take a guess??? I ended up sending this specimen and two others from other parts of AZ to a researcher. Been so long now, I don't even remeber who I mailed them to. He was particularly interested in this specimen and I seem to recall him mentioning that it was probably actually an adult specimen. Hard to recall for sure, but I'd guess it had a ~2 inch legspan +/- .5 inches.

This thread you guys are writing is REALLY getting me excited about my trip down there. Like Josh, I'm not a huge "collector" and prefer to work with captive bred stuff, but I guess we do have to get a few individuals to start a program with! Mostly, I just want to be in the desert and see and photograph lots of bugs  

For the record, I'll be taking a few captive bred individuals of the famed Arizona Unicorn Mantis down with me. I'll be releasing them in a sort of symbolic "giving back" kind of way.

Here's the link to that mystery tarantula. It's not even an active link on my website. I had labeled it Aphonopelma at the time (please disregard):

http://bugsincyberspace.com/aphonopelma_sp2.html

Thanks for the really enjoyable and informative (and tantalizingly teasing) thread guys! There is no place like...Arizona!

Peter Clausen


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## josh_r

your spider has a striking resemblance to aphonopelma mojave. however, it is not supposed to be found in the area you found this spider in. i dont think it is mojave, just looks alot like one. there is a chance it is a subadult of a larger species. its too hard to tell with a pic. you would really have to see it in person. 

was the spider super aggressive?? walked REALLY tall and had its fangs super extended??? did it walk super slow in that position?? ive never seen a spider like taht from the ajo area. is very interesting. i may have to go down tehre again. do you remember where on the 85 you found it??

-josh


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## josh_r

just to keep the thread fresh







ya gotta admit, the dwarfs are pretty cool!

mojave (bttom right) joshua (bottom left) hualapai (center) paloma (top)


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## Bugs In Cyberspace

As I think back seven years, I do distinctly remember passing through Ajo at night (and collecting some mantises that were at the lights on the wall of school building). We spent the night near Organ Pipe (well, tried...too hot to sleep), so it would probably have been near Sells the following day, or back somewhere on the eight (even before Yuma), the previous day. Here's a photo of the leopard gecko I found under the board (didn't take the gecko).







The small T I found sure has long hair compared to your dwarfs. Not that it matters too much, but the three photos I took of my "dwarf" were of it in the bottom of a 16 oz. deli cup.

I don't vividly remember any behavioral details. It didn't seem particularly aggressive. I'd remember that as it was the first tarantula I've ever collected in the wild (of 3). For a mostly-insect guy, the jump from 6 to 8 legs can be a bit intimidating when it comes to live collection. I only remember that it was under a board and visible when the turned over the board in the middle of the day. It was a very thin and fragile looking spider. I figured it was a young juvenile, but somebody I was in contact with back then (who knew his Aphonopelma) said he couldn't recognize it from the photo and suspected it might actually be an adult.

Well, I was just curious. Thanks for trying! When I started my previous post, I didn't realize that was the first T I'd ever collected. I'm slightly more curious to know what it is because of this, but I'll find another someday.

Your dwarfs (ves?) all look so similar to me. It's cool that they are mini's and how many photos of those four species together has anybody seen?

I took stills with a video camera, back then. Here are a few other photos from two other Ts we saw. At least one of the other two individuals was collected near Sedona.

http://www.bugsincyberspace.com/us_tarantulas.html

Hey, Josh...as I plan my trip down there, I'm wondering...is there a best time of day to visit that place we spoke of? Would you prefer to do the morning, day, evening or night thing, there? Of course, we have months to figure this all out, but our conversation yesterday has really got spending a lot of time looking at my map :? 

Thanks again!

Peter


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## josh_r

that spot is definitely a day time trip. very beautiful


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## aliceinwl

Your "leopard gecko" is actually a western banded gecko


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## Bugs In Cyberspace

Thanks Alice! It was a beautiful lizard. I also saw one of those thorny devil(?) lizards gorging itself on ants. Maybe I'll get lucky and see a gila monster next time! That would be the neatest potential vertebrate sighting of the trip.

I saw a coati last time. AZ is awesome!


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## josh_r

the thorny devil is actually a phrynosoma. horned lizard!


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## BrettG

lostriverdoc said:


> I live in Whetstone about 60mi. south of Tucson. I'll post a pic after work today. I found a couple of males while hiking Carr Canyon but left them there. Recently found one I believe is a female @ Ramsey Canyon and decided to keep this one.


I have one from Sierra vista that I am looking at as I type..... Will get pics when the wife gets home......


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## BrettG

lostriverdoc said:


> Here is the dwarf I promised to share with everyone.Any ideas on what species?


I have this same spider.Slightly larger,and I mean SLIGHTLY......Found on a garage wall of all places.....It just molted and is gorgous to say the least....

Reactions: Like 1


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## syndicate

Wow what a beauty!Great find!


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## Sunset

we don't have leopard geckos in united states. it was probably a banded gecko that you saw. Im more then 90% sure it was a banded gecko if you said it was a leopard gecko.






Bugs In Cyberspace said:


> Spoke with Josh on the phone for a good amount of time today. Really nice talking to you Josh! I'll be touring the lower part of Arizona again this summer and hope to meet up with Josh for a neat day trip.
> 
> Anyway, back in 2001, I was coming from California towards Tucson. I know we were past Yuma and we took the turn South (after Paloma) onto Hwy 85 towards Ajo. Somewhere in this general area, I turned over a board that we saw about thirty feet off the roadside. Underneath we found a leopard gecko, some death feigning beetles and the tarantula at the following link. I've always wondered what it was. Anybody have a clue? I know the photo quality isn't all that great, but maybe somebody can cross-reference the locality and photo info. and take a guess??? I ended up sending this specimen and two others from other parts of AZ to a researcher. Been so long now, I don't even remeber who I mailed them to. He was particularly interested in this specimen and I seem to recall him mentioning that it was probably actually an adult specimen. Hard to recall for sure, but I'd guess it had a ~2 inch legspan +/- .5 inches.
> 
> This thread you guys are writing is REALLY getting me excited about my trip down there. Like Josh, I'm not a huge "collector" and prefer to work with captive bred stuff, but I guess we do have to get a few individuals to start a program with! Mostly, I just want to be in the desert and see and photograph lots of bugs
> 
> For the record, I'll be taking a few captive bred individuals of the famed Arizona Unicorn Mantis down with me. I'll be releasing them in a sort of symbolic "giving back" kind of way.
> 
> Here's the link to that mystery tarantula. It's not even an active link on my website. I had labeled it Aphonopelma at the time (please disregard):
> 
> http://bugsincyberspace.com/aphonopelma_sp2.html
> 
> Thanks for the really enjoyable and informative (and tantalizingly teasing) thread guys! There is no place like...Arizona!
> 
> Peter Clausen


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## Sunset

like i said before, the pic is not a leopard gecko its a banded gecko. Leopard geckos are bigger and fatter. when banded geckos are longer and skinny. 




Bugs In Cyberspace said:


> As I think back seven years, I do distinctly remember passing through Ajo at night (and collecting some mantises that were at the lights on the wall of school building). We spent the night near Organ Pipe (well, tried...too hot to sleep), so it would probably have been near Sells the following day, or back somewhere on the eight (even before Yuma), the previous day. Here's a photo of the leopard gecko I found under the board (didn't take the gecko).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The small T I found sure has long hair compared to your dwarfs. Not that it matters too much, but the three photos I took of my "dwarf" were of it in the bottom of a 16 oz. deli cup.
> 
> I don't vividly remember any behavioral details. It didn't seem particularly aggressive. I'd remember that as it was the first tarantula I've ever collected in the wild (of 3). For a mostly-insect guy, the jump from 6 to 8 legs can be a bit intimidating when it comes to live collection. I only remember that it was under a board and visible when the turned over the board in the middle of the day. It was a very thin and fragile looking spider. I figured it was a young juvenile, but somebody I was in contact with back then (who knew his Aphonopelma) said he couldn't recognize it from the photo and suspected it might actually be an adult.
> 
> Well, I was just curious. Thanks for trying! When I started my previous post, I didn't realize that was the first T I'd ever collected. I'm slightly more curious to know what it is because of this, but I'll find another someday.
> 
> Your dwarfs (ves?) all look so similar to me. It's cool that they are mini's and how many photos of those four species together has anybody seen?
> 
> I took stills with a video camera, back then. Here are a few other photos from two other Ts we saw. At least one of the other two individuals was collected near Sedona.
> 
> http://www.bugsincyberspace.com/us_tarantulas.html
> 
> Hey, Josh...as I plan my trip down there, I'm wondering...is there a best time of day to visit that place we spoke of? Would you prefer to do the morning, day, evening or night thing, there? Of course, we have months to figure this all out, but our conversation yesterday has really got spending a lot of time looking at my map :?
> 
> Thanks again!
> 
> Peter


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## josh_r

offroad537 said:


> like i said before, the pic is not a leopard gecko its a banded gecko. Leopard geckos are bigger and fatter. when banded geckos are longer and skinny.


lol, this was already established a long time ago. read a few posts above yours.


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## Robotponys

Hate to revive, but this thread is pretty cool.   Do any of you who posted here still collect and/or have any? They look gorgeous and very interesting.


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## josh_r

Unfortunately I don't keep them or any inverts anymore. The few people who do have paloma I highly doubt will give them up. They are just too cool and too desired.


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## Robotponys

A shame. Eventually they could be available I hope.


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## BrettG

Robotponys said:


> A shame. Eventually they could be available I hope.


They are available,in the desert,lol.You are not going to see cbb specimens anytime soon.


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## Robotponys

Oh.  Oh well. Maybe in a few years!


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## josh_r

I distributed a bunch of cb years ago. I wonder what happened to them all.

Reactions: Like 1


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