# Snake opinions



## ZTguy (Sep 2, 2013)

So I have been toying with the idea of getting back into keeping large snakes. As well I have been toying with the idea of converting my smaller garage into a full enclosure, it is 20'L x 15.5W' x 8'H. It has been a long LONG time since I have kept or looked into large snakes. I was wondering if a something like a reticulated python, Burmese python, yellow anaconda, green anaconda, scrub python, or red tail boa would actually utilize that much space. Or will the snake stay in one spot 90% of the time. I've also considered various species of varanids. I may end up going with varanids but one of the downsides to keeping them is trying to fill a 20x15.5 space with two feet of soil. I know in the wild red tail boas and scrub pythons will climb/sleep in trees. So I have also thought about the idea of turning it into an arboreal enclosure. But again still undecided as to what I would keep in the enclosure if I decided to convert the garage(it's not my actual garage, the people who used to own the house had a main garage for working on semi trucks so the main building is much much larger. What I would convert is a smaller garage they had added on for cars) at all. So anyone have some opinions? Or even any communal species of snakes that are smaller yet would utilize the space?


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## Brizzl (Sep 2, 2013)

Key tip: do not spend lots of money on changing something that isn't yours to change. Even if they say its ok, you never know what could happen. 

It sounds like a cool project but making the whole room an enclosure when the room isn't even yours? Not a good plan at all.


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## ZTguy (Sep 3, 2013)

Hey Brizzel, that came out wrong and that was my bad. I meant it's not my actual garage in the sense I don't use it for a car or anything. Not that it's not my garage.


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## Brizzl (Sep 3, 2013)

Well that makes more sense. I'm sorry, I don't really have anything thing to contribute but best of luck. I'll be watching this thread for updates.


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## The Snark (Sep 3, 2013)

If you keep pythons pigged out they sleep 25 hours a day... "This is my python! I saw him move only last week!"


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## Aviara (Sep 3, 2013)

Definitely feels like a waste to put a lethargic adult constrictor of any of those species in such a big space! I think you'd be better off building a few enclosures inside of the space for a few specimens. I believe anacondas are slightly more active, but I know that burmese pythons, retics and red tails are pretty mellow and don't move around all that much upon reaching adult size. Have you thought about dividing the space up into a breeding project for snakes instead of sticking to one specimen? As long as you can provide the proper heat gradients and have cages that are easy to access and clean, it isn't that much more difficult or time-consuming owning multiple enclosures. You might also consider taking in some of the retics, burmese pythons or even red tail boas that have stumbled into the wrong hands and, upon reaching adult size, end up in an animal shelter or worse. 

I think a varanid would suit the space much more nicely. I have a Columbian tegu (not a monitor, but very similar in husbandry, activity and caging needs), so I can give you some advice, although a monitor-specific forum would have much more specialized advice once you decide on a species. A monitor enclosure needs fairly high humidity, so you would need to actually build the enclosure within the building itself. Otherwise you would eventually rot the structure out, and that's no good! This would also give you the opportunity to section off the entranceway as a small "supply room" or "work room". You could keep a deep freezer for mice, rats and other varanid food, insect cultures, and any other extra equipment you might need, like a weighing center and extra lights/heat sources. Depending on how the building is built, you might also be able to add on an outdoor section for the monitor to get natural sunlight, or perhaps you could build an outdoor enclosure as well as an indoor one. Either way, monitor cages are very heavy and fairly expensive. The 2' of soil isn't bad when you consider that topsoil is about $1.50 for 40 pounds, but it sure does get heavy. Even if you only utilize say 15'x10' of the actual building's space for the monitor cage, this is plenty of space for any of the medium-size or arboreal species.

Reactions: Like 1


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## lancej (Sep 3, 2013)

I think the scrub python (Morelia amethestina) would be the most active, and they are semi-arboreal and good swimmers, also.  You do an incredible enclosure for a pair of them.  But even then, I think there would be a lot of extra space.  A pair or small group of crocodile monitors (Varanus salvadorii) would use all of the space.  Just a couple of suggestions


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## ZTguy (Sep 3, 2013)

Aviara- I may look into a rescue, I know there is one about 30-40 minutes from where I live plus another guy about 15-20 minutes from me runs a smaller in-home rescue. I wasn't sure if given the space a larger snake would actually explore much. I've  considered breeding but I am not a fan of morphs really and that seems to be what most people keeping snakes now want. Maybe carpet pythons, or something like scrub pythons though.

As for monitors, I've kept them before and absolutely love them. The only issue with the soil is at 20'x15.5' at 2' deep it is about 23 cubic yards, which is about 22 tons worth of soil. That could get to be a pain to move. The only thing is with a single or even a pair of monitors I know the full space would be used. I can even add lattice work to the walls and make the walls a workout for them. 

Lancej- Lol I was actually just about to mention I had forgotten scrub pythons. Could possibly do a trio, 2 females to one male. As for V.salvadorii, they are my dream monitor. But at the moment I just don't see spending almost $1000 on a single lizard lol. Maybe around tax time.


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## catfishrod69 (Sep 3, 2013)

I think it would be cool if you put sky lights in it. Then did a entire live garage. Use live potted dwarf trees, plants everywhere, dirt, gravel, etc. Then get some arboreal species.

Reactions: Like 2


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## JZC (Sep 3, 2013)

I would use that for a group of Argentine black and white tegus. Really cool lizards. Cannot tell you how much I want one. That would also be an amazing environment do a herd of large tortoises. maybe redfoots or sulcatas or leopards. Maybe a gator.

Reactions: Like 1


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## catfishrod69 (Sep 3, 2013)

Also you could add a large pond in the ground, and lots of vegetation, then toss in a green anaconda. It wouldnt bother the arboreals, and they wouldnt bother it. However dont go swimming .


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## ZTguy (Sep 3, 2013)

JZC- Only reason I don't wish to keep Tegu is because of the fruit/veggie part of the diet. That's the only reason I won't keep a Rhino iggy as well.

Catfishrod69- That is actually a very interesting idea. Could go full amazon with a large pool, green anaconda, and amazon tree boas. I know the ones I used to keep never really stayed on the ground much unless they were in quarantine when I first got them. I could actually build a larger pond area for cheaper if not the same price as buying a stock tank for a bowl. Building a pond filter isn't bad, I was thinking about keeping common snapping turtles or alligator snapping turtles so I've fairly beaten down filters. And pfft! Swimming would just be that much more interesting no?! Lol


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## catfishrod69 (Sep 3, 2013)

That would be sweet! I was visioning a large pond, with a small stream leading away from it and wrapping back around into a waterfall. Would be nice to look like a botanical garden.


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## ShredderEmp (Sep 3, 2013)

catfishrod69 said:


> Would be nice to look like a botanical garden.


UNtil you see all those potentially harmful animals.


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## JZC (Sep 3, 2013)

Maybe include PDFs in such a humid rain forest environment. You have plenty of room to meet everyones needs. Harking back to my other post, how about a swamp/marsh environment for a gator or two?


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## ZTguy (Sep 3, 2013)

Catfishrod69- That is a really good idea! I'll have to take some more measurements when I get back home. Out of town for the rest of the week.

ShredderEmp- It would just make it a much more interesting garden!

JZC- PDFs? I would love a gator or caiman, but if I remember correctly  crocodilians are one of the few things I can not keep here. I need to go back over the laws again. As for tortoise, that would be awesome.


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## JZC (Sep 4, 2013)

PDF=poison dart frog. And yes,  herd of adult tortoises would easily use all of that space. Babies tend to hide a lot whereas adults are very outgoing


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## Aviara (Sep 4, 2013)

Do you have the building heated and air conditioned already? You will need to maintain a constant temperature (or gradient depending) for these animals. I know from experience that outbuildings are often ovens in the summer and freezers in the winter - and it can cost a good deal of money to heat and cool these spaces. You will also need a way to provide UVB to any tortoises or varanids you add to the setup and this could also be challenging. Providing appropriate light to the trees and other plants without having a screen top would be very difficult and extremely expensive. Many people are talking about building enclosures even some zoos cannot create or manage - and species relations in your space will still be much more strained than in natural environments. Certainly poison dart frogs and other amphibians would need individual enclosures. Otherwise they could be easily lost, injured or consumed (any varanid, tegu or smaller snake would hunt these guys, and they do not retain their defensive excretions in captivity). I like the idea of spoiling a single varanid or a small group, or even a group of large constrictors - but mixing species is challenging and risky, especially from different regions or habitats. Further keep in mind that the humidity you will need will quickly damage this structure and you will need to contain the humidity within another, smaller enclosure to keep this from happening. Basically you will need to construct the enclosure within this building - not use the building as the walls of the enclosure. See various tegu and varanid forums for information on this issue: it's why you cannot dedicate a garage or a room of your home to your varanid - you need to build an enclosure within that space. I hate to sound negative when everyone else is enthusiastic, but I don't think it's fair to the animals or to the person who is about to spend a fortune on a setup to have unrealistic expectations.


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## ZTguy (Sep 5, 2013)

Aviara- You do realize keeping a constant temp is common sense and pointless to suggest correct? It's not like this would be remotely new. Keeping reptiles I mean. As for heating/cooling yes, that has already been figured. The shop/garage runs on its own breaker. UVB would be needed for tortoises yes, varanids, no although again, as I don't like keeping vegetarian animals tortoise are a HIGHLY unlikely choice. I have kept varanids just fine with out UVA/UVB lighting. Simple halogen bulbs for basking spots and 4' shop lights for normal lighting. As for getting the correct lighting to plants, they do have bulbs for growing plant life. Which means I could use a few 4 foot light fixtures. Each holds 2 bulbs so I could do 3 plant bulbs/3 normal white bulbs. Or adjust the ratio as needed. But I do not have much of a green thumb so I would more than likely just cut down trees from my backyard. As for the frogs, no I was going to just let thousands free roam in the set-up(yes that was sarcasm). And do you REALLY believe I am that dense to mix everything mentioned together? I wouldn't keep poison dart frogs. Mixing a large anaconda with an amazon tree boa wouldn't be that bad. In the wild green anaconda and amazon tree boa are from the same area. Amazon tree boas can be found on branches above the water where anaconda, caiman, and other things thrive. Also I would not HAVE to build another enclosure inside. Well not in a full sense anyway, all I would have to do is line the walls with FRP or something similar, then just seal where the pieces attach. And yes I have seen someone do this with a room in his house for 2 nile monitors. So how is dedicating more room than most can unfair to the animal? How is it unrealistic expectations?


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## Aviara (Sep 6, 2013)

Your expectations are not necessarily unrealistic - I was referring to others who are basically encouraging you to reconstruct the rainforest in your area. Although it would be a large size for most varanids and therefore more than acceptable - same for all large snakes - it isn't suitable for the sort of species mixing others have been discussing. You would need to be very careful, as I already stated, if you want to turn the entire building/room into an enclosure. In the long run it can be harder to manage than simply building a large enclosure inside of that space. I strongly encourage you to go to a monitor or tegu forum, even if you are building the enclosure for a snake in the end. These people are very familiar with large enclosures and will be able to give you advice before you start and if you run into any issues in construction or once it is set up. If you are chopping down wood to use as decor that is fine (assuming you ensure it is clean, pesticide free and all that usual stuff), but the people suggesting growing "dwarf trees" in the building are very optimistic to say the least as well. 

None of what you have described is unfair to the animal, but I assume nothing when it comes to giving advice about reptile setups. I have worked in the pet industry and I have seen first-hand the range from individuals far more experienced than I running breeding programs, rehabs and local nature centers to completely incompetent or ignorant reptile owners. Unfortunately there are people out there who own snakes and do not know what a temperature gradient is or even to provide heat. I met a woman who owned her ball python for 3 years and kept it completely at room temperature with no cage decorations including hides or a water source because it's "what the pet store said". I've learned not to assume anything after such experiences.


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## Perentie (Sep 8, 2013)

Dwarf caiman? http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/f...-has-begun!!/page103&highlight=claudia+caiman


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