# Huge Phoneutria Nigrivinter



## Cpt.nemO (Mar 4, 2005)

Ok everyone, there are a few brazilian threads about arachnids.  Mostly about T's.  Well there are a few (crazy obviously) that have Phoneutria Nigrivinter and even breed (simply mental) this at home.  Now the pics you are about to see will impress all of you.  Normally the Phoneutria Nigrivinter looks more like a wolf spider (Lycosa) but with a leg span o 10 - 13 cm.  Practically all are thin (like a lycosa) except its proportionally larger.

Now take a look at the size of this Phoneutria Nigrivinter.  If the guy gets bitten, well you probably know what will happen to him (a few minutes a life left).  I just posted asking whether he has the antivenom in the fridge (just now), but i really think he doesn't.

BTW the common name is: Brazilian wondering spider.

Anyways be amazed:

*<PICTURES REMOVED DUE TO COPYRIGHT VIOLATION>*


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## Lorgakor (Mar 4, 2005)

Aren't the same photos already posted in the Other Arachnid forum? It is a very cool spider, though it is Brazilian _Wandering_ Spider.


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## Randolph XX() (Mar 4, 2005)

are those ur photos? i kinda remember i've seen it somewhere b4
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=41096
 :wall: 
u don't have rights to remain silence :wall:


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## FryLock (Mar 4, 2005)

Cpt.nemO said:
			
		

> Now take a look at the size of this Phoneutria Nigrivinter. If the guy gets bitten, well you probably know what will happen to him (a few minutes a life left). I just posted asking whether he has the antivenom in the fridge (just now), but i really think he doesn't.


Well ppl do die from their bite but the official figures show a very low death rate compared to the numbers of reported bites, iv seen them posted on another board but don't have them to hand Lelle or someone else that has an interest in the family may have them to post here, but if iirc the % of fatalty was low.


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## Elizabeth (Mar 4, 2005)

Thank you, Frylock.  Try the "other arachnids" forum, CptNemo, and get some better info.  That sensationalistic stuff, like he only has a few minutes to live if he gets bitten, is really hard to quell.   It's like saying you will surely die if a black widow bites you.   Just not so, not even likely, and as a matter of fact, highly unlikely if you are a healthy adult.

You are supposed to give proper credit for images. From the Rules on AB:

Excerpt:

Picture Use On Arachnoboards

Pictures used on Arachnoboards must either be owned by you or you must have permission from the copyright holder. By "used" we mean through attaching to a post or through use of the "img" tag. If you neither own the picture, nor have permission to use it, post a link.

End of Excerpt.

Nice that you are taking an interest in spiders other than tarantulas, though.


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## Cpt.nemO (Mar 4, 2005)

Ok , i have a discovery channel documentary on brazillian wondering spider.  It says that the venom is neurotoxic.  In this case example the person was bitten on the neck, so it took a little less than 5 mins for him to lose sight, followed by sitting on the ground, start sweating , having lots and lots of muscle contractions until it hits that major muscle contraction ( i think the word would be seisure), seconds after that the victim stops breathing as the muscles don;t work anymore and he dies.  In this case the human given as an example was a large strong man that worked on banana plantations.

So you get the picture , its more up to where you get bitten to varry the severity of the venom poisoning (disconsidering any unnormal alergic reactions that the individual might have).  As for the rates: bites x death,  most of the ones who servive, lose most of the sensibility of the muscles all around the region, in many cases it causes paralysis (i think thats what is called in english) of the lower body members and specially on the part of the body where the bite took place.

As for the white widow thats an idiot example as its venom is very slow acting (obviously there a few extreme cases of alergic reactions but also very uncommon) and the bite doesn't sting not near as much as one of a brazilian wondering spider.  Pluss , the brazilian wondering spider venom is imediate.  From the moment you have been bitten you will feel hell on earth thats for sure.  In my opinion this is one of the most dangerous species around the planet (I think its tied with the male sidney funnel web) in matters of fast acting strong reaction venoms.  Not only that but this spiders name in portuguese is "Armadeira" which means: "Armar" means to prepare for attack and "deira" just simply gives the attribute of "Armar" to the spider.  Therefore the name is basiclly that which is always ready to attack, and this comes from its reputation of assuming the attacking position for anything.

Those of you who hAve a better knowledge of this species certainly know their ferociouness and how much they try to sting, like it can just keep trying and trying to sting if you fiddle with it, if you simply blow some gentle breeze at it will already assume the attack positio.  I caught one in my friends farm but it was sick and with a few members missing (e.g. 2 legs and a palp).  Still i threw i wild caught giant moth and it took less than a second for it to pounce on the moth which was airborning inside of the large glass jar (and it was still missing a few members).  After a few days her abdomen burst and a couple of white slugs came out.

I hope you all see that its not that i havn't researched it and the black widows and the funnel webs and the mouse spiders and the brown spiders, violin etc. etc. etc. Its not as if I haven't got a clue of what i am talking about.  And to a certain extent I am amazed you didn't mention abouit the rates of people who have survived the bites and nothing happened x the people who servived the bites but got paralysis in a certain member or even in the inferior part of the body.

BTW, remember i mentioned that i few crazy ones breed this species well take a look at this picture.  1 day after the first ling left the egg sac.  Just as a reminder, from all of this only 14 are left, all of the rest escaped acording to the person who did it.  So u imagine the danger that dealling with this is.  He might be putting others peoples lifes in danger , specially children and elder ones.

*<PICTURE REMOVED DUE TO COPYRIGHT VIOLATION>*


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## shogun804 (Mar 5, 2005)

you have a Discovery channel documentary on them..oh my god, people pull down the curtains this show is over   ;P 

sweet pics though (*credit to the owners of the pics*). :clap:


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## FryLock (Mar 5, 2005)

Cpt.nemO said:
			
		

> And to a certain extent I am amazed you didn't mention abouit the rates of people who have survived the bites and nothing happened x the people who servived the bites but got paralysis in a certain member or even in the inferior part of the body.


That is a good point but seeing as there seem to be no cases listed in medical sites about long term paralysis who can say how many times that happens :? (unless someone has links to cases?), the is a good artical >Here< Quote from it,

"From January, 1984 to December, 1996, 422 patients (ages 9 m-99 y, median 29 y) were admitted after being bitten by spiders which were brought and identified as Phoneutria spp. Most of the bites occurred at March and April months (29.2%), in the houses (54.5%), during the day (76.5%), and in the limbs (feet 40.9%, hands 34.3%). Upon hospital admission, most patients presented only local complaints, mainly pain (92.1%) and edema (33.1%) and were classified as presenting mild (89.8%), moderate (8.5%) and severe (0.5%) envenomation. Few patients (1.2%) did not present signs of envenomation. Severe accidents were only confirmed in two children (9 m, 3 y). Both developed acute pulmonary edema, and the older died 9 h after the accident. Patients more than 70 year-old had a significantly greater (p<0.05) frequency of moderate envenomations compared to the 10-70-year-old individuals. Proceedings to relief local pain were frequently performed (local anesthesia alone 32.0%, local anesthesia plus analgesics 20.6% and oral analgesics alone 25.1%). Only 2.3% of the patients (two cases classified as severe and eight as moderate, eight of them in children) were treated with i.v. antiarachnid antivenom. No antivenom early reaction was observed. In conclusion, accidents involving the genus Phoneutria are common in the region of Campinas, with the highest risk groups being children under 10 years of age and adults over 70 years of age. Cases of serious envenomation are rare (0.5%)."


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## Crotalus (Mar 5, 2005)

Its Phoneutria nigriventer
I have bred them and im not the least crazy, but some might disagree.
And for the 10908 time: spider venom DO NOT cause allergic responses....
And no, I dont care what Discovery Channel says. 
And if spiderlings escape, no big deal really. They dont survive indoors. And I dont think they survive indoors in Brazil either, they are very difficult to raise in captivity.

/Lelle


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## nightbreed (Mar 5, 2005)

From what I've read this is a very dangerous spider, I'm not saying that a bite is an automatic death sentance, but when you look at these facts.
The spider has a very large venom gland 10.4 x 2.7 mm as compared to a T.blondi's 12 x 1.6 mm
It's venom is approximately 18 times more toxic than L.mactans (lethal dose for mice 0.006mg for P.nigriventer, and 0.11 for L.mactans but as we all know just because its very toxic to rodents doesnt mean it will have the same effect in humans)
So large venom gland + strong venom = bad day for anyone who gets bitten by one of these.

Information on gland size and venom toxicity taken from an article written by Martin Nicholas.


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## Crotalus (Mar 5, 2005)

The spider genus Phoneutria is a dangerous one yes. The numbers you are quoting are the same as in Guinness Book of Records and are not a reliable source of information at all. 
No spider got a LD50 of 0.006 mg, that would mean its even more toxic then inland taipan (0.025 mg)... Which is not true. LD50 for P. nigriventer is 0.3 mg according to a german article (Herzig, 2004). Besides, LD50 dont mean nothing at all except toxicity on mice really.

/Lelle


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## Steven (Mar 5, 2005)

Aren't those Adnans pictures ?  :? 

and why is it in the T-section ?


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## Scorpendra (Mar 5, 2005)

Elizabeth said:
			
		

> Picture Use On Arachnoboards
> 
> Pictures used on Arachnoboards must either be owned by you or you must have permission from the copyright holder. By "used" we mean through attaching to a post or through use of the "img" tag. If you neither own the picture, nor have permission to use it, post a link.
> 
> End of Excerpt.


what she said.


this should be in the "other arachnids" section, whether this section has the word "pictures" in it or not.

The bananna spider (i like to use that name) is my favorite non-tarantula spider. i have a copy of the guiness book, and it is listed as the most venomous spider on earth.


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## Cpt.nemO (Mar 5, 2005)

Ok you all, the documentary I saw about the wandering spider on discovery was obviously undetailed and very generalized.  And as i said before in this case the person was bitten on the neck.  As you all can see by frylocks stats.  most of the bites occur far from the head and upper chest region, no wonder you can find rates such as those you presented.  I wanted to make quite clear that the documentary i watched was lame regarding my past knowledge of this species.  I had seen another brazilian documentary acouple of years ago, where it showed and interviewed people who had been bitten and got severe paralysis, in some cases it even changed the position of a limb (eg. a finger which pointed to the side instead of being straight, from what i remember, this was mainly due to muscle destruction due to the severe contractions and seizures, before you ask, yes the bite took place on the finger.).

Anyways if i could move the thread to another place i would but i am not a moderator.  Secondly, about the slings running away and surviving, the author still posts that every now and then he catches a wandering spider around the house (even though he lives in a region where this is highly improbable to occur).  He has captured a few since the event and already quite large considering that the were slings when they scattered.  I regard this as extremely dangerous, specially for the others around him, eg. family neighbours, pets etc. etc.

As for alergic reactions to spider venom, yes that occurs but its obviously not commun.  The same way i might be allergic to a bee sting an you not, there are people who are very sensitive and allergic to many things specially insect stings, i wouldn't doubt that not at all.  Do you really think that in the whole world there aren't people who would have allergic reactions to a specific spider venom (basicly allergy to a specific chemical being contained in the venom) ???  Doesn't need to be allergic to the venom itself, however there are so many mixed chemicals that the person could be terribly allergic to a specific substance, and therefore trigger an alergic reaction.  Think about it before you say its total bullshit.

Frylock: thanks for participating with such enthusiasm  people like you make threads interesting.

ta ta.

And yes pics are from andan, and yes i asked him to use them.

BTW most of the cases of spider bites of these wandering spiders, normally the spiders are sub adult to adult, but even though the are far thinner and less encorped than the one from the picture.  Imagine the venom sacs on that huge spider in the pic.  Imagine how much more venom it can deposite in aq single bite in comparison to the average wondering spider.  We all know that spiders such as these which depend mainly in jumping a couple of feets and in their venom need to be slimmer and agile.  All of these which are wild caught are slim, just like a Lycosa but a giant Lycosa.  This one from the pic is an exception, it has been given a lot of easy prey so she doesnl't need to worry about beeing agile.  But still imagine how much venom she can deposit if she bites Andan in the hand ??


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## Crotalus (Mar 5, 2005)

Molitor said:
			
		

> what she said.
> 
> 
> this should be in the "other arachnids" section, whether this section has the word "pictures" in it or not.
> ...



Is it so difficult to understand that Guinness book is not a reliable source of information?

/Lelle


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## Crotalus (Mar 5, 2005)

Cpt Nemo,

Let me guess, you watched a show called "Tarantulas and their venomous relatives" ? 
I hope you realize that guy there wasnt acctually bitten...

Bee venom and spider venom are not the same - it doesnt contain the same components and should never be compared. 
Bee venom is highly allergic while spider venom isnt. 

Offcourse you dont need to be allergic to a spider to get a seroius envenomation - thats not the issue.

/Lelle


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## Cpt.nemO (Mar 5, 2005)

Crotalus said:
			
		

> Is it so difficult to understand that Guinness book is not a reliable source of information?
> 
> /Lelle



I agree with you Crotalus, however i don't think she's far from being one of the most venomous species.  Anyways drop by drop, daddy long legs takes the first place, however, their fangs are to small to punch through human skin.

ta ta



			
				Crotalus said:
			
		

> Cpt Nemo,
> 
> Let me guess, you watched a show called "Tarantulas and their venomous relatives" ?
> I hope you realize that guy there wasnt acctually bitten...
> ...


A common man, I don't know what the shows name was, but of course i know its a simulation... What i was saying is that considering that he was bitten on the neck it could be that he died in a few mins. thats all.  Man i don;t think anyone here would believe that scene is real life..  I didn't expect you would think this of me man.


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## Crotalus (Mar 5, 2005)

Cpt.nemO said:
			
		

> I agree with you Crotalus, however i didn't she far from being one of the most venomous species.  Anyways drop by drop, daddy long legs takes the first place, however, their fangs are to small to punch through human skin.
> 
> ta ta


 Another myth. sorry.

/Lelle


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## Cpt.nemO (Mar 5, 2005)

Well man, than what can i say to you , i have already read that in a couple of books (up - to date).  Its not my fault myths like this one is written in good books and with a certain amount of seriousness.

Anyways, then drop by drop, which is the most venomous species in the world ?


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## Elizabeth (Mar 5, 2005)

Here, a thread from "other arachnids" forum re: most venomous spider in the world.  It's a lot of reading, but interesting:

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=35141


We all start out with the wrong information, since so much of what is passed around or published in books, or shown on TV shows, is flat-out wrong.  It can be quite a challenge to find the truth sometimes!


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## Sheri (Mar 5, 2005)

Just a note...

YES, this belongs in the Other Arachnids forum. I've moved it... but when you see that, know that, and post that... please take the time to report the post to alert a mod that something needs to be moved and/or edited.

A lot more efficient than posting to that effect and then waiting for one of to stumble onto it. Its that little exclamation mark in the bottom left hand corner.

Thank you and please continue this most fascinating discussion.


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## Scorpendra (Mar 5, 2005)

Glad to see this thread where it belongs.



			
				Cpt.nemO said:
			
		

> I agree with you Crotalus, however i don't think she's far from being one of the most venomous species.  Anyways drop by drop, daddy long legs takes the first place, however, their fangs are to small to punch through human skin.


not only is that a myth, but the harvestman can't be the most venomous spider, since it is not a spider, and has no venom.


			
				Crotalus said:
			
		

> Is it so difficult to understand that Guinness book is not a reliable source of information?
> 
> /Lelle


i did not say it was correct, i just said that it has the brazilian wandering spider as Earth's most venomous spider. it is relevant to the conversation. and also, it is _one_ of the most venomous, and has _the_ largest venom glands of all spiders. Guinness, i guarantee, is not blowing complete smoke.

and on a side note, this site has some nice pics of phoneutrias fera (they believe) and nigriventer. as well as some other species'. is it me, or is that tarantula an O. Auratum? (it's probably me since an exaustive googling reserach only gave me one picture.)


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## Crotalus (Mar 5, 2005)

Cpt.nemO said:
			
		

> Anyways, then drop by drop, which is the most venomous species in the world ?


Should be Latrodectus mactans. However, since australian funnel web spider Atrax and Hadronyche) venom arent very effective on mice its hard to say for sure. The neurotoxic component in Phoneutria venom are for sure among the most effective.



			
				molitor said:
			
		

> and on a side note, this site has some nice pics of phoneutrias fera (they believe) and nigriventer. as well as some other species'. is it me, or is that tarantula an O. Auratum? (it's probably me since an exaustive googling reserach only gave me one picture.)


That is my site and my nigriventer. O. auratum?

/Lelle


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## Cpt.nemO (Mar 5, 2005)

Ok thank you all, I thought the sid. funnel web wasn't far also. Anyways anyone here got a bite report of a ver venomous species ??


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## nightbreed (Mar 5, 2005)

Crotalus said:
			
		

> The spider genus Phoneutria is a dangerous one yes. The numbers you are quoting are the same as in Guinness Book of Records and are not a reliable source of information at all.
> No spider got a LD50 of 0.006 mg, that would mean its even more toxic then inland taipan (0.025 mg)... Which is not true. LD50 for P. nigriventer is 0.3 mg according to a german article (Herzig, 2004). Besides, LD50 dont mean nothing at all except toxicity on mice really.
> 
> /Lelle


The info I quoted came from an article in the latest BTS journal, I would never trust any info from the Guinness Book of records, but thanks for pointing out that the information is wrong. 

I'm pretty sure I mentioned in my post that the toxicity on mice has no bearing on the toxicity in humans :? 

Just out of interest what is the LD50 for L.mactans? because I only posted the info because it compared the two and mactans had been mentioned earlier in the thread.


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## Crotalus (Mar 5, 2005)

According to the article its 5.5 mg. However, this figures should be taken with a large dose of salt..

/Lelle


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## nightbreed (Mar 5, 2005)

Crotalus said:
			
		

> According to the article its 5.5 mg. However, this figures should be taken with a large dose of salt..
> 
> /Lelle


Thanks man.  
So P.nigriventer venom seems to be quite a bit more toxic than L.mactans, to mice at least, am I right?


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## Cpt.nemO (Mar 5, 2005)

you are definately at least LD50 4.0   Man the wondering spider is no joke.


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## edesign (Mar 5, 2005)

Cpt.nemO said:
			
		

> Man the wondering spider is no joke.


w*A*ndering spider


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## becca81 (Mar 5, 2005)

Cpt.nemO said:
			
		

> Anyways drop by drop, daddy long legs takes the first place, however, their fangs are to small to punch through human skin.


Definite myth.  I think that one is even debunked on snopes.com.  

Heh, I do remember hearing that in grade school when boys would run up on the playground with daddy-long-legs and tell the girls that.


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## Crotalus (Mar 5, 2005)

nightbreed said:
			
		

> Thanks man.
> So P.nigriventer venom seems to be quite a bit more toxic than L.mactans, to mice at least, am I right?


 LD50 is not a good way to be sure how toxic a venom are. Its  a small indicator, BUT all depends on how the LD50 test is done (4 ways) and also very much by who.
In that particular test yes, but in others no. In the same test A. robustus had 10-17,5...
To sum it up - LD50 is no good, Guinness book of records even worse, Phoneutria got a potent venom. 

/Lelle


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## nightbreed (Mar 5, 2005)

Crotalus said:
			
		

> LD50 is not a good way to be sure how toxic a venom are. Its  a small indicator, BUT all depends on how the LD50 test is done (4 ways) and also very much by who.
> In that particular test yes, but in others no. In the same test A. robustus had 10-17,5...
> To sum it up - LD50 is no good, Guinness book of records even worse, Phoneutria got a potent venom.
> 
> /Lelle


cool, thanks for the info, I dont have a clue when it comes to this sort of stuff, thats why I love this forum I learn something new everyday


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## Scorpendra (Mar 5, 2005)

Crotalus said:
			
		

> That is my site and my nigriventer. O. auratum?
> 
> /Lelle


really? good job on the pictures

O. Auratum is also called the brazilian slender. scroll down, it's above the two tarantulas above the Phormictopus'. as i've said, the tarantula on your site is probably something entirely different. one day, i hope that i can keep my mouth shut.


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## Crotalus (Mar 6, 2005)

Molitor, I have no clue what you talking about. Whats a "O. auratum"?
If you think something is wrong ID - send me the link to my picture so I know what you talking about. 

Ok I found the O. auratum, but still clueless what that got to do with anything here?

/Lelle


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## Scorpendra (Mar 6, 2005)

i brought it up because i thought the tarantula on your site is one, and your site contained pictures of P. Nigriventer.

this one

getting back on tract, having to do with me, this section of gea galleries has pics of fera, boliviensis and kaiserlingi.

EDIT: okay, glad that is cleared up and there is one less wandering spider name i have to remeber.


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## Crotalus (Mar 6, 2005)

Molitor, 
Ok but thats a australian theraphosid, photographed in Cairns so its not O. auratum. And the picture should be in the theraphosid gallery...
BTW, keyserlingi is not valid anymore - its synonym with nigriventer.

/Lelle


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## Adnan (Mar 6, 2005)

What am I seeing here? ...  ...



> Now take a look at the size of this Phoneutria Nigrivinter. If the guy gets bitten, well you probably know what will happen to him (a few minutes a life left). I just posted asking whether he has the antivenom in the fridge (just now), but i really think he doesn't.


Please... Its just a spider! They are fast and agressive, but hardly lethal. Any snake from the genus Bothrops (very commom here in SP) are far more dangerous...



> BTW, remember i mentioned that i few crazy ones breed this species well take a look at this picture. 1 day after the first ling left the egg sac. Just as a reminder, from all of this only 14 are left, all of the rest escaped acording to the person who did it. So u imagine the danger that dealling with this is. He might be putting others peoples lifes in danger , specially children and elder ones.


Hahahaha, what??? What you are smoking?? Dude, I have only 4 spiders of the eggsac of the picture, the rest I let go free in a wooded area here in SP (the area where the adult male was found). And yes, some escaped, but only few of the *second eggsac* - ecloded in only 28 days, in the adult female enclosure.



> Secondly, about the slings running away and surviving, the author still posts that every now and then he catches a wandering spider around the house (even though he lives in a region where this is highly improbable to occur). He has captured a few since the event and already quite large considering that the were slings when they scattered. I regard this as extremely dangerous, specially for the others around him, eg. family neighbours, pets etc. etc.


Who tell you this?? I´ve captured 4 and ALL they was in the first molt yet. Its hard to find small prey here in my house, so NO LARGE P. nigriventer spiderling wandering here. 



> And yes pics are from andan, and yes i asked him to use them.


 Ask *BEFORE* posting!!! And I do not give permission for you to use my picture.



> This one from the pic is an exception, it has been given a lot of easy prey so she doesnl't need to worry about beeing agile. But still imagine how much venom she can deposit if she bites Andan in the hand ??


That isn't my hand...isn't even one of my spiders. Please, READ the threads before posting.

humpf...


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## Crotalus (Mar 6, 2005)

Adnan said:
			
		

> Please... Its just a spider! They are fast and agressive, but hardly lethal. Any snake from the genus Bothrops (very commom here in SP) are far more dangerous...


You cant compare a Bothrops with a wandering spider. And not lethal? People do die from bites even if its rare. People dont die from inland taipans either but that dont makes their venom less potent.

/Lelle


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## Adnan (Mar 6, 2005)

Crotalus said:
			
		

> You cant compare a Bothrops with a wandering spider. And not lethal? People do die from bites even if its rare. People dont die from inland taipans either but that dont makes their venom less potent.
> 
> /Lelle


Dont get me wrong.
I just saying: Here in State of São Paulo, Is *far* more easy to people die from a bite of a poisonous snake than a P. nigriventer... but some people have more fear of the spider.



> And not lethal?


I´ve said "hardly lethal".


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## Sheri (Mar 6, 2005)

*clarification*



			
				Adnan said:
			
		

> I´ve said "hardly lethal".


Just curious... hardly meaning not often, or... like... kinda dead?


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## Adnan (Mar 6, 2005)

Not often!


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## blacktara (Mar 6, 2005)

*Just being a smart ass*

"BTW the common name is: Brazilian wondering spider." <P>

That would be "wandering", as in roaming, in search of food or a mate <P>

The only thing Phoneutria might be "wondering" is where all the b&&lsh*t myths about it got started


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## pirika (Mar 7, 2005)

Cpt. Nemo, dont use my pictures!!!


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## Crotalus (Mar 7, 2005)

blacktara said:
			
		

> "BTW the common name is: Brazilian wondering spider." <P>
> 
> That would be "wandering", as in roaming, in search of food or a mate <P>
> 
> The only thing Phoneutria might be "wondering" is where all the b&&lsh*t myths about it got started


 Myths? Please elaborate what myths. 

/Lelle


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## Arachnoboards (Mar 7, 2005)

Adnan said:
			
		

> What am I seeing here? ...  ...
> 
> Ask *BEFORE* posting!!! And I do not give permission for you to use my picture. Please, READ the threads before posting.
> 
> humpf...





			
				pirika said:
			
		

> Cpt. Nemo, dont use my pictures!!!



All pictures in question, in this thread have been removed due to copyright violation and posting without permission from the original owners. The rules on copyright issues can be found here:

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=34260

I suggest that people start following this, and all of our rules, or suspensions will be frequently handed out without warnings!   

C'mon people, it's really not that hard to follow the rules. Ignorance is *NOT* a valid excuse!  :wall: 


Debby


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## JJJoshua (Mar 7, 2005)

Maybe we should have a sticky that includes spider myths and the actual truth. So everytime a newbie comes along we don't have to go through this whole deal of proving them wrong...


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## Scorpendra (Mar 8, 2005)

that sounds like a good idea.


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## knightjar (Mar 8, 2005)

Well I like the idea of a Wondering Spider. Sitting there, pondering life's great mysteries. Maybe that's what all those 'Pet Rock' G rosea are doing.


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## Crotalus (Mar 8, 2005)

knightjar said:
			
		

> Well I like the idea of a Wondering Spider. Sitting there, pondering life's great mysteries. Maybe that's what all those 'Pet Rock' G rosea are doing.


 somehow I just waited for that one 

/Lelle


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