# My new dartfrog setup



## presurcukr (May 1, 2010)

Well it's finaly done (thanks Underground Reptiles).


----------



## presurcukr (May 1, 2010)

more.........


----------



## Mack&Cass (May 1, 2010)

Wow that looks so great!

For some reason I thought you can't keep different colours together, but I'm assuming I'm wrong. Are those all the same subspecies of dart frog? Also do you have a _Phelsuma williamsii_ in there? If so, that's pretty neat that they can be kept together.

Forgive my dart frog ignorance, I'd love to keep them some day when we have more space, but for now I don't really know much about them.

Cass


----------



## presurcukr (May 1, 2010)

Mack&Cass said:


> Wow that looks so great!
> 
> For some reason I thought you can't keep different colours together, but I'm assuming I'm wrong. Are those all the same subspecies of dart frog? Also do you have a _Phelsuma williamsii_ in there? If so, that's pretty neat that they can be kept together.
> 
> ...


Some of the larger dartfrogs will crush the smaller ones but most will coexist Yes they are Phelsuma williamsii and have 2 redeyes too. This 55Gallon setup is sweet.Have to wait for the fogger the one I got is defective


----------



## PrimalTaunt (May 1, 2010)

Very nice setup and such beautiful creatures.


----------



## hassman789 (May 1, 2010)

are those deadly? if so how do they get you "envenomated"


----------



## Beardo (May 1, 2010)

hassman789 said:


> are those deadly? if so how do they get you "envenomated"


In captivity they lose their toxicity. Also, being _Poison_ Dart Frogs, they would not "envenomate" anything. 

Also, to the OP...while your tank may LOOK nice, you're going to get flamed to high heaven if any Dendro-keepers see this thread......not only are you mixing Dart species, you've got wild caught Bumblebee Toads, Red Eyes & Geckos in there. Thats just a disaster waiting to happen. I'd be surprised if any of those animals are still alive in 6 months.


----------



## Philth (May 1, 2010)

Nice tank and nice animals,  I've had several tanks like these over the years and found them difficult to maintain.  Please update the thread in a few months with how it looks, Id be curious to see, and I hope you have better luck than me.   As well in my experience those exo terra water fall look nice when they are first set up but have alot of headaches of there own.  ex.. if there not on the perfect angle they will leak water and you constantly need to fill it,  eventually flooding out the tank.

Sorry for being Mr. Negative here haha.:wall:  

Good luck, and I think you should add a nice tropical background on the back of the tank, it will totally change the appearance of the whole tank, and will be visually more appealing than seeing the wall and blinds in back of it.

Whatever that blue gecko is , its awesome.
Later, Tom


----------



## Mack&Cass (May 1, 2010)

hassman789 said:


> are those deadly? if so how do they get you "envenomated"


They're not venemous, therefore envenomation isn't possible. They are poisonous but if I'm not mistaken, only one subspecies is known to be really bad...or 'deadly'. In order to get sick from it you'd either have to lick it or handle one and then not wash your hands and put them in your mouth, or eat finger food or something.

EDIT: Ahh David beat me to it. Also, I forgot they lose their toxicity in captivity. Now that you've mentioned it, I remember reading it somewhere but it completely slipped my mind. My mistake 

Cass


----------



## presurcukr (May 1, 2010)

DavidBeard said:


> In captivity they lose their toxicity. Also, being _Poison_ Dart Frogs, they would not "envenomate" anything.
> 
> Also, to the OP...while your tank may LOOK nice, you're going to get flamed to high heaven if any Dendro-keepers see this thread......not only are you mixing Dart species, you've got wild caught Bumblebee Toads, Red Eyes & Geckos in there. Thats just a disaster waiting to happen. I'd be surprised if any of those animals are still alive in 6 months.


From what I have been told every thing I have in this tank should do just fine together they have plenty of room and lots of hides.


----------



## Beardo (May 1, 2010)

I guarantee that no responsible amphibian keeper will tell you that mixing Dart species with other herps is OK. Thats just ridiculous......but have fun with your critters now while they're still alive.


----------



## presurcukr (May 1, 2010)

Philth said:


> Nice tank and nice animals,  I've had several tanks like these over the years and found them difficult to maintain.  Please update the thread in a few months with how it looks, Id be curious to see, and I hope you have better luck than me.   As well in my experience those exo terra water fall look nice when they are first set up but have alot of headaches of there own.  ex.. if there not on the perfect angle they will leak water and you constantly need to fill it,  eventually flooding out the tank.
> 
> Sorry for being Mr. Negative here haha.:wall:
> 
> ...


Will be adding background soon just got it up today. The last waterfall I had was fine just hard to keep clean. The small day gecko is Phelsuma williamsii


----------



## Beardo (May 1, 2010)

Dart Frogs are from South/Central America. 

Phelsuma geckos are from Madagascar. 

Each animal has a specific internal bioflaura that could be harmful to the other. 

The Geckos, Bumblee Toads and lkely the tree frogs are wild caught....meaning they could easily carry internal parasites. 

Bumblee Toads are toxic. You have them in with very sensitive Red Eye Tree Frogs and other Amphibians. 

What part of this sounds like a good idea to you? Oh, I get it.....because it "looks pretty."


----------



## Mack&Cass (May 1, 2010)

DavidBeard said:


> In captivity they lose their toxicity. Also, being _Poison_ Dart Frogs, they would not "envenomate" anything.
> 
> Also, to the OP...while your tank may LOOK nice, you're going to get flamed to high heaven if any Dendro-keepers see this thread......not only are you mixing Dart species, you've got wild caught Bumblebee Toads, Red Eyes & Geckos in there. Thats just a disaster waiting to happen. I'd be surprised if any of those animals are still alive in 6 months.


Okay, so different colours can't be kept together then? I thought I was crazy because I was sure I had read that somewhere. I was a little surprised to see the Phelsuma but like I said, I know nothing when it comes to these guys and even geckos and such.

Cass


----------



## Beardo (May 1, 2010)

Mack&Cass said:


> Okay, so different colours can't be kept together then? I thought I was crazy because I was sure I had read that somewhere. I was a little surprised to see the Phelsuma but like I said, I know nothing when it comes to these guys and even geckos and such.
> 
> Cass


Color has little to do with it.....those are totally different species with different behavior types. Dart Frogs in general are very territorial and do not tolerate "intruders".....those Leucomelas frogs (the yellow & black ones) are especially bad about this. They will "bully" other frogs which is totally fine in the wild, but in a cage where the other frogs cannot get away is obviously bad. Although they might appear totally fine, the mere presence of another species of Dart Frog is extremely stressful for them, and will no doubt cause the death of most if not all of those frogs. Theres a *good reason* that Dart Frog keepers are sternly opposed to mixing species.

On top of all that.....you have the toxic Toads, Red Eye Tree Frogs (which are nocturnal which will disturb the diurnal Dart Frogs) and the Geckos.....basically, that tank is a cluster fornication.


----------



## Mack&Cass (May 1, 2010)

DavidBeard said:


> Color has little to do with it.....those are totally different species with different behavior types. Dart Frogs in general are very territorial and do not tolerate "intruders".....those Leucomelas frogs (the yellow & black ones) are especially bad about this. They will "bully" other frogs which is totally fine in the wild, but in a cage where the other frogs cannot get away is obviously bad. Although they might appear totally fine, the mere presence of another species of Dart Frog is extremely stressful for them, and will no doubt cause the death of most if not all of those frogs. Theres a *good reason* that Dart Frog keepers are sternly opposed to mixing species.


I see, thank you for the information  I just thought the different colours were different species. That's how little I know about these guys. I'd obviously do tons of research before getting into them because I'm sure they're not easy to maintain, but if I did right now it would just be a tease. Thanks again for the helpful information.

Cass


----------



## Beardo (May 1, 2010)

You're vey welcome Cass. 

In actuality, Darts are very easy to maintan if setup properly....the only thing I found to be a bit of a "pain" about them is their food source (fruit flies for the most part) and their need to be fed just about every day. I am lazy & like my arachnids, lol.


----------



## presurcukr (May 1, 2010)

DavidBeard said:


> Dart Frogs are from South/Central America.
> 
> Phelsuma geckos are from Madagascar.
> 
> ...


This is my first tank like this (mostly have scorpions and Tarantulas ) from what I was told this setup was ok.I did not do this to "look pretty" I followed the advice I was given by someone who has been keeping herps & amphibians for more than 20 years.If you say that it was bad advice then what should I remove??


----------



## Beardo (May 1, 2010)

So, you dd absolutely no research of your own? You just took the word of one person? Unless that one person is a known authority on that particular animal or group of animals, that pretty foolish husbandry. 

A simple search of Google would turn up all sorts of info on why mixing species like that is such a bad idea. Check out a website called Dendro-Board....its like this site, except for Dart Frog keepers. (www.dendroboard.com)

Let me guess....was the person who told you this was OK _selling_ you the animals? If so, their motives were financially based and not geared towards the proper maintenance of your captives.


----------



## ZergFront (May 2, 2010)

I don't know if it's all dart frogs, but at least some species get their poison from their diet of stinging insects. (mainly ants) They lose the defense on a fruit fly diet.

 I'd love to do a set up of a dart frog species, but yeah, a lot of time feeding. I like my eight-legged critters that eat sparingly.


----------



## Beardo (May 2, 2010)

Yeah, Darts get their toxins from the insects they eat in the wild.....mostly ants/termites that feed on plants that have high alkaline content.


----------



## Endagr8 (May 2, 2010)

DavidBeard said:


> Color has little to do with it.....those are totally different species with different behavior types. Dart Frogs in general are very territorial and do not tolerate "intruders".....those Leucomelas frogs (the yellow & black ones) are especially bad about this. They will "bully" other frogs which is totally fine in the wild, but in a cage where the other frogs cannot get away is obviously bad. Although they might appear totally fine, the mere presence of another species of Dart Frog is extremely stressful for them, and will no doubt cause the death of most if not all of those frogs. Theres a *good reason* that Dart Frog keepers are sternly opposed to mixing species.
> 
> On top of all that.....you have the toxic Toads, Red Eye Tree Frogs (which are nocturnal which will disturb the diurnal Dart Frogs) and the Geckos.....basically, that tank is a cluster fornication.


Those are _D. auratus_, not _D. leucomelas_, if I'm not mistaken.

I like the tank, but I think you should remove the fake stuff and add more naturalistic hides, water features, etc.. You could start by replacing the fake plants with real plants that provide good ground cover, like _Peperomia _or_ Selaginella_.


----------



## Beardo (May 2, 2010)

Endagr8 said:


> Those are _D. auratus_, not _D. leucomelas_, if I'm not mistaken.


You are indeed mistaken. _Dendrobates leucomelas_ is the Bumblebee Dart Frog (yellow & black). Although there are D. auratus in the tank (the green & black ones). Look at this picture here....clearly a couple of leucs:


----------



## joshuai (May 2, 2010)

arent the geckos Lygodactylus Willamsi


----------



## titus (May 2, 2010)

3 species of darts including Dendrobates tinctorius that may try to hybred with Dendrobates leucomelas, I would have chosen a Phyllobate species insted of one of them. The tank is more than large enough. Giving 5 gal per frog rule. You could have had a larger group of thumbnails than the larger Dendros but they are small and hard to feed the larger will easily take up to med sized crickets or small roaches.


----------



## Endagr8 (May 2, 2010)

DavidBeard said:


> You are indeed mistaken. _Dendrobates leucomelas_ is the Bumblebee Dart Frog (yellow & black). Although there are D. auratus in the tank (the green & black ones). Look at this picture here....clearly a couple of leucs:


LOL. I completely overlooked those. What good camouflage.


----------



## fangsalot (May 2, 2010)

if anything,partition the tank down the middle with glass or plexi and keep one species of dart frog on one side(i prefer the leucs myself ) and that beautiful gecko or treefrogs on another.get your money back on the rest for corkbark background,better groundcover and real plants.


----------



## PrimalTaunt (May 2, 2010)

Endagr8 said:


> LOL. I completely overlooked those. What good camouflage.


You're not the only one.  I totally whiffed on those the first time that I scrolled through.  It's amazing that something so bright can blend in so well.


----------



## Beardo (May 2, 2010)

*Shrug* I spotted them immediately upon seeng the picture the first time. And I'm legally blind, lol.


----------



## presurcukr (May 3, 2010)

fangsalot said:


> if anything,partition the tank down the middle with glass or plexi and keep one species of dart frog on one side(i prefer the leucs myself ) and that beautiful gecko or treefrogs on another.get your money back on the rest for corkbark background,better groundcover and real plants.


Sounds good I think I'll cut it in half I have some Plexiglas.And keep the geckos and only one of the darts . By the way the bromeliads are real .


----------



## SixShot666 (May 3, 2010)

Great set up you have there!!! :clap::clap::clap:
Unfortunately from what the other members are writing on this thread, it's a shame that you'll have to separate those dart frogs.


----------



## Mack&Cass (May 3, 2010)

joshuai said:


> arent the geckos Lygodactylus Willamsi


Yeah, they are. I wasn't thinking and typed Phelsuma. Good catch.

Cass


----------



## H. laoticus (May 4, 2010)

PrimalTaunt said:


> You're not the only one.  I totally whiffed on those the first time that I scrolled through.  It's amazing that something so bright can blend in so well.


haha me too.
I was thinking, "He probably posted the wrong picture because there sure as heck isn't a frog in there, let alone two."  LOL!

Took me about 45 seconds to finally see them


----------



## pwilson5 (May 4, 2010)

H. laoticus said:


> haha me too.
> I was thinking, "He probably posted the wrong picture because there sure as heck isn't a frog in there, let alone two."  LOL!
> 
> Took me about 45 seconds to finally see them


wait... there are 2 in that pic??? i see the yellow one (finally!) guess i gotta go back and find the 2nd..


its like the "wheres waldo" book i had when i was little...


----------



## iNick (May 4, 2010)

Wow, very nice set up. And I love your frogs.


----------



## Beardo (May 4, 2010)

Maybe you guys need to borrow my glasses, lol.


----------



## presurcukr (May 4, 2010)

With background and fogger


----------



## dtknow (May 4, 2010)

Gotta agree with the others...this is a disaster waiting to happen. Mixed species exhibits can work but after observing one lose pretty much everything except for a mantella for no other obvious reason I'd steer clear.


----------



## presurcukr (May 4, 2010)

dtknow said:


> Gotta agree with the others...this is a disaster waiting to happen. Mixed species exhibits can work but after observing one lose pretty much everything except for a mantella for no other obvious reason I'd steer clear.


I am fixing that problem.


----------



## Mvskokee (May 4, 2010)

Killer setup man i love it!


----------



## Tleilaxu (May 5, 2010)

I have heard foggers can cause the death of frogs due to the process of which the foggers use to create the fog.(They cause some type of internal damage) Is this true? Or has that issue been corrected?


----------



## fangsalot (May 5, 2010)

looks ALOT better with the background  i would still go with the seperation plan i suggested


----------



## presurcukr (May 5, 2010)

fangsalot said:


> looks ALOT better with the background  i would still go with the seperation plan i suggested


working on that on my next day off.So you want to know what* was* in the tank 
 Dendrobates leucomelas
 Dendrobates auratus
 Dendrobates azureus
 Lygodactylus williamsi
 Melanophryniscus stelzneri
 Agalychnis callidryas


----------



## presurcukr (May 5, 2010)

dtknow said:


> Gotta agree with the others...this is a disaster waiting to happen. Mixed species exhibits can work but after observing one lose pretty much everything except for a mantella for no other obvious reason I'd steer clear.


I would never mix mantella's with darts !!


----------



## fangsalot (May 6, 2010)

now you know..any kind of animal you want to get,dont trust the word from one "expert" but do your own extensive research before aquiring the animal.


----------



## titus (May 6, 2010)

Really the darts could live together in the tank it is large enough. The problem is more that being all from the genus Denrobates they can and may cross breed. Not a problem, as long as the eggs are destoyed. I kept a tank for five years with P. vittatus, Epipedobates tricolor, and D. ventrimaculatus. Being from diffrent genus and having diffrent areas of the cage where they lived, vittatus ground, tricolor middle, and ventrimaculatus top. Helped keep the peace. I had no crossbreeding or losses in the five years.


----------

