# Kid kills 10-foot Albino Burmese Python



## clearlysaid (Aug 26, 2007)

How sad.

FTA:

Scott Braunstein is used to the fearful reaction his large snakes and reptiles elicit as he makes educational presentations at local festivals, libraries and schools.

But he was unprepared for the violent actions of a boy at the St. Bernadette Festival in Pierce Township on Sunday.

According to the snake handler, the boy approached Popcorn, a 10-foot, nonpoisonous albino Burmese python, and told Braunstein he hated snakes.

"The next thing I know ... the kid raises his leg and stomps down on the snake's head," Braunstein said. "The snake started convulsing."

Braunstein said he saw a man he believed to be the boy's father grab the child, and heard him say, "This is why I don't take you anywhere," before disappearing into the crowd.

Braunstein said he tended to the snake rather than pursuing the pair. Popcorn died from the blow, which severed its spine at the base of its skull, he said.

"I've never, never had anything like that happen," said Braunstein, who operates House of Reptiles, an educational facility based in Dry Ridge, Ky.

A former Pizza Hut manager, Braunstein turned his love of reptiles into a full-time job. His collection includes alligators, lizards, spiders and frogs. For two years, Braunstein's animals have been featured in a festival petting zoo operated by Amelia-based All Creatures Animal Hospital.

"Scott's business is to educate people about reptiles, and his goal is for people to learn to appreciate rather than fear the reptiles that share this planet with us," said the hospital's founder, Dr. Dan Meakin. Braunstein and Meakin said they are especially concerned by a child attacking the snake.

"We need to educate the public more and more so they understand these animals are not evil," Braunstein said.


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## tin man (Aug 26, 2007)

if that was my snake I would be pretty mad  even though I already am


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## Ted (Aug 26, 2007)

somebody woulda got hurt.
and i wonder what the snake was doing on the ground and why the kid wasnt being watched by his father


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## josh_cloud (Aug 26, 2007)

I would have NFL tackled the IRRESPONSIBLE father and made him pay. He's not raising his kid right anyway! Get that kid a leash!:evil:


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## Aztek (Aug 26, 2007)

Ted said:


> somebody woulda got hurt.
> and i wonder what the snake was doing on the ground and why the kid wasnt being watched by his father


It was being exhibited at a show.


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## Ted (Aug 26, 2007)

josh_cloud said:


> I would have NFL tackled the IRRESPONSIBLE father and made him pay. He's not raising his kid right anyway! Get that kid a leash!:evil:


yep..the father would pay alright.


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## Okitasoshi (Aug 26, 2007)

I'd punish both of them, all punishing the father will do is make the father more mad at the kid and then the kid acting out more. I say just take the boy away, kill him softly, and then give the dad a vasectomy.


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## P. Novak (Aug 26, 2007)

The father should pay with money and the kid should pay with time. That is really disrespectful and totally uncalled for! That snake did nothing to that kid. Ugh, people like this make me ashamed to be a human..


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## Dark (Aug 26, 2007)

They should Euthanize the kid. It isn't the fathers fault his son is an idiot, They should find the kid who did it, the family should be fined for the value of the snake. Although it would be nice if the kid was punished I suspect he will get away with it.


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## Ted (Aug 26, 2007)

darkpredator said:


> They should Euthanize the kid. It isn't the fathers fault his son is an idiot, They should find the kid who did it, the family should be fined for the value of the snake. Although it would be nice if the kid was punished I suspect he will get away with it.


the kid is a byproduct of his parents.
his father was there to take care of him and shoulda been watching him, it never would have happened if he had.
both should be chunked into a croc pit.


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## kitty_b (Aug 26, 2007)

that really breaks my heart.

and i bet they'll never find that damn kid. his dad sure as hell isn't going to fess up.


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## ragnew (Aug 26, 2007)

This is just terrible. What the hell is wrong with people and their children nowadays?


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## Harrod (Aug 26, 2007)

That just breaks my heart. I'll never get use to the cruelty people are capable of. I just hope that some one is able to help that boy.


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## exoslimjim (Aug 26, 2007)

wow, not a very bright kid


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## Drachenjager (Aug 27, 2007)

darkpredator said:


> They should Euthanize the kid. It isn't the fathers fault his son is an idiot, They should find the kid who did it, the family should be fined for the value of the snake. Although it would be nice if the kid was punished I suspect he will get away with it.


YES IT IS
if your kids are bad its your fault period!
Kids need parents to teach them how to act, and some times that meand getting their butts blistered . Spare the rod spoil the child is true


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## Brian F. (Aug 27, 2007)

Drachenjager said:


> YES IT IS
> if your kids are bad its your fault period!
> Kids need parents to teach them how to act, and some times that meand getting their butts blistered . Spare the rod spoil the child is true



If I had done this, my mom would have killed me and I wouldn't be here typing this right now.  I know somebody would have gotten beaten if this had been my snake.


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## dragonblade71 (Aug 27, 2007)

I was shocked when I read this article. That kid deserves to be severely punished. And it seems clear that the father fails to understand the seriousness of the situation - "This is why I don't take you anywhere" - he deserves to be condemned as well.


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## Ted (Aug 27, 2007)

the kid will have an interesting life...i can see it now.


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## robbie (Aug 27, 2007)

Drachenjager said:


> YES IT IS
> if your kids are bad its your fault period!
> Kids need parents to teach them how to act, and some times that meand getting their butts blistered . Spare the rod spoil the child is true


so true, If it were me, the kid would not been able to get away withut a broken foot or something of the kind.  Man I can't stand when people can't controll their kids.:evil:


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## Nivek (Aug 27, 2007)

Oh my god...That is disgusting. I'm originally from that area and I know Scott, and how much he loved that gorgeous snake. That's just horrible.


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## Mushroom Spore (Aug 27, 2007)

Nivek said:


> Oh my god...That is disgusting. I'm originally from that area and I know Scott, and how much he loved that gorgeous snake. That's just horrible.


If you mean you know him personally, please pass on our condolences.  Albino Burmese are my favorite "snake I want but they're too large and dangerous for my tastes" animal, and I just...gah.


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## Nivek (Aug 27, 2007)

Yes, I do know him personally. When I lived in Kentucky I sat up booth at the same reptile show as him. He always has a great variety of animals set up and such. I've seen him there with the same snake that was lost. I'm sure he would appreciate all the kind thoughts going out here. I'd like to get a hold of that brat as well. What disgusts me most though, is I bet that family has said something along the lines of "It was just a snake." People disgust me sometimes.


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## sidexkick (Aug 27, 2007)

maybe we should jump on that kids head and see what happens.


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## MissConnie (Aug 27, 2007)

_thats just awful and disgusting. That level of violence to someone elses animal without thought is just disgusting and in a public place! The child did it without reguard of any form of thought for the owner, the snake or anyone around who might see.

I mean...who does that? Who does that without thinking "im about to be seen, in front of the owner and the public"

That father should have grabbed his child, taken him to the owner to explain his disgusting actions, to say sorry a thousand times, to pay the cost of the snake and to make the child face upto fear and WORK with the animals to get a better understanding and acceptance of other living things
But then...who would want a public snaked killer to work with their animals.

Im just disgusted and I hope guilt makes them come forward!_


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## RoachGirlRen (Aug 27, 2007)

Clearly, the child is absolutely disturbed and needs intense counselling; his behavior puts up a red flag for future violent behavior towards animals and probably humans. I wouldn't mind seeing some time in juvie for felony aggravated animal cruelty myself, but we barely put people away for brutally murdering mammals, and lord knows our poor dear reptiles have an even lowering standing in the legal world. 
The father should definately have to pay for the snake. I personally think he should also have to pay for whatever fee this man charges to display his animals, as the experience was undoubtedly ruined for the rest of the crowd and the facility hosting deserves it's money back - on the hands of the ass who ruined it!


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## CaptainChaos (Aug 27, 2007)

darkpredator said:


> They should Euthanize the kid. It isn't the fathers fault his son is an idiot, They should find the kid who did it, the family should be fined for the value of the snake. Although it would be nice if the kid was punished I suspect he will get away with it.


I think that it can be blamed on the father too as something is very wrong in the way that he is raising his son. Read more: 
" His father who, obviously embarrassed, grabbed the boy’s hand and pulled him back into the festival crowd accompanied the boy. The only words said by the boys father were -  “that’s why I can’t take you anywhere.” The father and his son were not seen anywhere near the petting zoo and never once appeared concerned that they had just killed this large beautiful reptile.  Scott shook his head is disgust, loaded his deceased snake into a box and packed up his remaining reptiles for the long drive back to Dry Ridge."

I wonder if those words are the only punishment that kid gets...
Still a very sad story, 1 of those stories that i personally wouldn´t want to read..


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## robbie (Aug 27, 2007)

MissConnie said:


> _
> 
> That father should have grabbed his child, taken him to the owner to explain his disgusting actions, to say sorry a thousand times, to pay the cost of the snake and to make the child face upto fear and WORK with the animals to get a better understanding and acceptance of other living things
> But then...who would want a public snaked killer to work with their animals._


This would have been responsible parenting but obviously not the case here.  I don't mean to tell people how to raise their children but when your child is acting out like this I think it is a good time to reassess your methods.:evil:


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## beetleman (Aug 27, 2007)

that is just terrible!! i don't even know what to say! ooh if that was my snake.....


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## Drachenjager (Aug 27, 2007)

RoachGirlRen said:


> Clearly, the child is absolutely disturbed and needs intense counselling; his behavior puts up a red flag for future violent behavior towards animals and probably humans. I wouldn't mind seeing some time in juvie for felony aggravated animal cruelty myself, but we barely put people away for brutally murdering mammals, and lord knows our poor dear reptiles have an even lowering standing in the legal world.
> The father should definately have to pay for the snake. I personally think he should also have to pay for whatever fee this man charges to display his animals, as the experience was undoubtedly ruined for the rest of the crowd and the facility hosting deserves it's money back - on the hands of the ass who ruined it!


lol@counselling WHAT A WASTE
most shrinks are why our kids are this way in the first place !!!
dont spank them it will harm thier self image! good grief, if they are bad kids they shouldnt have a good self image DUH they should be spanked so they know that bad actions get bad punishment. then they will learn to be good and have a good self image then and only then. And anyone who tries to outlaw spanking our kids should be drawn and quartered. 
BEFORE all this crap got started , people didnt even think of taking guns to school because daddy would beat the crap out of us if we did. We knew certian things would cause us pain so we didnt do them. PEOPLE have to have somethign bad happen before they will be good. thats just the way we are. no amount of talking to a kid will do it.


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## bliss (Aug 27, 2007)

i say throw the kid in the cage with a few hungry retics, anacondas, or Rock pythons.

 the father, ah, just sterilize him, as mentioned before.


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## monitormonster (Aug 27, 2007)

That is the worst thing I have read in forever. It makes me sick to my stomach to think about how the snake's owner felt, because I can only imagine what I would have done in retaliation. 

Being violent toward animals without remorse like this is an early sign of sociopathic and antisocial behavior. That kid needs serious help before he becomes a serial killer or something. Great job parenting, dad. I hope he reads about this in the newspaper and has a chance to feel like crap for raising such a sh** kid.


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## loxoscelesfear (Aug 27, 2007)

i don't know if the brat will become a ted bundy or whatnot, but a good spanking may help.


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## MasamuneX7 (Aug 27, 2007)

The kid was probably a sociopath. I would have badly disfigured him, then told him straight up that one day he's probably going to become a serial killer, and when he does, I'll personally hunt him down and mutilate him again.


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## Mister Internet (Aug 27, 2007)

....and all the keyboard warriors come out of the closet...  

I can tell you exactly what you would have done if you had been there.... NOTHING.  That's right... you might have felt an IMPULSE to beat a young child senseless, but something in your subconscious would have stopped you in your tracks and made you realize that administering vigilante justice on one child is PROBABLY not worth spending the next 5-10 in federal pen.  Call me crazy.

Unless you WOULD HAVE actually gone through with it... in which case, you are a more despicable person than this kid has ever been.  Sheesh.

Yes, it's horrible.  Yes, the kid should be punished... if not by his parents, then by the law.  But for God's sake, try to distance yourselves, at least a tiny bit, from the appearance of having the same blind venom you're reviling this kid for.  The law, and common sense, are most definitely not on your side here...


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## bliss (Aug 27, 2007)

..yes agreed mister internet, but it never hurts to hope that something horrible happens to the kid and his father in the future.. you know, karma  

 maybe when the kid gets older, like around the age of 40, some random child or teen will stomp in his head and he'll die of spine related injuries.  but if not... he'll be just another rotten person in the crowd.


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## Mister Internet (Aug 27, 2007)

bliss said:


> ..yes agreed mister internet, but it never hurts to hope that something horrible happens to the kid and his father in the future.. you know, karma
> 
> maybe when the kid gets older, like around the age of 40, some random child or teen will stomp in his head and he'll die of spine related injuries.  but if not... he'll be just another rotten person in the crowd.


So, even after making statements like the above, you STILL feel you have the moral high ground in all of this?  Unbelievable...


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## Tleilaxu (Aug 27, 2007)

So your defending this kid? An eye for an eye... That kid would desertve it.


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## Lorgakor (Aug 27, 2007)

Maybe the child has some sort of mental disability and didn't understand that what he was doing was wrong or hurtful. He may have understood that he didn't like snakes but not that hurting one was bad. Obviously I can't say that that is what happened, but it is a possibility. The fault here in my eyes lies with the father who took off, not with the child. He should have brought the child to apologize to the snake owner to show him what he did was wrong. 

Hearing all of you say that this child should be beaten and even killed sickens me.


Note: I just wanted to add that a mental disorder would not excuse what the child did, as nothing could, but it could be an explanation. Especially when you take into account the father saying "this is why I can't take you anywhere". It seems to me that such things (obviously not exactly) have happened before.


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## beetleman (Aug 27, 2007)

if i was right there,and saw this kid,stomping on that snake,i would'nt just sit there..no way,something would be done to stop it. i would'nt just sit there.


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## K-TRAIN (Aug 27, 2007)

thats terrible what happened to that snake. but the kid was wrong. and the father was wrong. and the owner of that snake should of grabbed the kid and pressed charges at least.
i think it would be perfectly legal to grab that kid because after all, its basically considered defending your property.
i honestly think thats the problem with society today. someone does something to you, and if you protect yourself or others your the one treated like a criminal. 
even though your innocent.

but thats just me and i probably went alittle off topic with that last thing.


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## RoachGirlRen (Aug 27, 2007)

> lol@counselling WHAT A WASTE
> most shrinks are why our kids are this way in the first place !!!
> dont spank them it will harm thier self image! good grief, if they are bad kids they shouldnt have a good self image DUH they should be spanked so they know that bad actions get bad punishment. then they will learn to be good and have a good self image then and only then. And anyone who tries to outlaw spanking our kids should be drawn and quartered.
> BEFORE all this crap got started , people didnt even think of taking guns to school because daddy would beat the crap out of us if we did. We knew certian things would cause us pain so we didnt do them. PEOPLE have to have somethign bad happen before they will be good. thats just the way we are. no amount of talking to a kid will do it.


::rolls eyes:: Did I say anything about being anti-spanking, or anti-punishment, or anything along those lines? If so, please point it out to me. In fact, I believe I suggested something a little more strict than a spanking: jail time.
My comment regarding the child needing counselling is in reference to the fact that this is disturbed, violent behavior that could amount to harming more animals or even humans if not corrected early. If this child is some kind of blooming sociopath, it needs to be recognized and if possible, treated. And I'm sorry, but when a kid is that out of control, more needs to be done than a mere belting.


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## verry_sweet (Aug 27, 2007)

The people in the crowd should not have let the father and son go with out at least giving them a good tongue-lashing. 

People these days stop and stare but nobody wants to get involved so things once deemed unacceptable are common place since onlookers walk by, shake their heads and quietly talk about how horrible the offending action was. What lesson was taught to the other kids in the crowd who now think this behavior is acceptable since all the adults said nothing and quietly stood back.

Sad story. I feel really bad for the keeper who must have felt totally abandoned as he was left to tend for his snake and the crowd did absolutely nothing about it.


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## Mister Internet (Aug 27, 2007)

Tleilaxu said:


> So your defending this kid? An eye for an eye... That kid would desertve it.


Please point out where I said that this kid was RIGHT, or that what he did was OK.  THAT would be defending him.

What I AM saying is that if it way MY snake, and some vigilante internet keyboard warrior standing by physically assaulted the child who had just killed MY snake, I would press charges against the VIGILANTE, not the kid.

Yes, the kid was wrong.  Yes, what he did was horrible.  But I don't live in a world where it's ok to maul a PERSON because they killed an ANIMAL, sorry.


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## baboon man8 (Aug 27, 2007)

i know this is a tarantulas and other inverbs. website but im sorry my love for snakes is beyond my 5 Ts i would have stomped on the father and the kids head


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## bliss (Aug 27, 2007)

Mister Internet said:


> So, even after making statements like the above, you STILL feel you have the moral high ground in all of this?  Unbelievable...




  i play no role in the whole morality issue.  the kid did something wrong.  i honestly don't care what happens to the kid.  maybe he'll grow up and be a millionaire.  maybe he'll die tomorrow.  either way, what happens happens.  i could care less if he has the best life ever or if he dies tomorrow.    If karma catches up to him (if you believe in it),   then i will not have done anything to the little brat .   i didn't say i would be the one head crushing.  i meant i'd be the one on the porch laughing at him, in all my oldness.  no one stopped him from crunching on the snake, so i wouldn't stop someone bashing the kid's head it.  _I _   would do nothing, just as everyone at the show did.  does that mean i have a mental issues?  maybe.  oh well.  i think not, but hey....


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## sidguppy (Aug 28, 2007)

This is one of the main reasons I never congratulate anyone when he somehow manages against all odds to get his wife pregnant (odds like sheer stupidity or general ignorance or just being hopelessly bad at it), or when whole crowds go all goofy on someone cause they had a baby

ANYONE can have a baby. morons can have babies, guppies can have babies; heck even roaches breed.......

I congratulate persons in a sincere, well meant way when they manage to RAISE a kid to a decent and social human being instead of just another asshole on this already overpopulated planet.

the kid in this syory and his dad are obviously in the latter category. I can think of at least 4 billion people that should have been neutered right before they reached puberty.

and yes, there SHOULD be some kind of course or school on how to raise decent humans before people start breeding .mandatory.


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## Melmoth (Aug 28, 2007)

I'd really like to break that kid's face


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## Joe (Aug 28, 2007)

Mister Internet said:


> But I don't live in a world where it's ok to maul a PERSON because they killed an ANIMAL, sorry.


If I had been the child in question, my father probably would have smacked me at least a few times right then and there, and I would have gotten more at home. My dad actually hates snakes, but hurting or killing any innocent animal in his presence for no reason whatsoever wouldn't have been tolerated when I was a kid, and it wouldn't be tolerated now that I'm 30, either.

And just for the record, I like animals far more than people. If a guy walking his dog stepped in front of my car and I only had time to avoid hitting one or the other, I'd aim for the guy. There's no such thing as a evil animal, but there are plenty of evil people. I'd play the odds and hope the guy was a jerk.


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## bliss (Aug 28, 2007)

Joe said:


> If I had been the child in question, my father probably would have smacked me at least a few times right then and there, and I would have gotten more at home. My dad actually hates snakes, but hurting or killing any innocent animal in his presence for no reason whatsoever wouldn't have been tolerated when I was a kid, and it wouldn't be tolerated now that I'm 30, either.
> 
> And just for the record, I like animals far more than people. If a guy walking his dog stepped in front of my car and I only had time to avoid hitting one or the other, I'd aim for the guy. There's no such thing as a evil animal, but there are plenty of evil people. I'd play the odds and hope the guy was a jerk.



  i like animals more than most people but not ALL people.  -- im not sure if i would go the route of hitting the man instead of the dog, but i can definitely see where you are coming from.     just imo.


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## bugmankeith (Aug 28, 2007)

I'm thinking the kid had some sort of behavioral problem for the father to say that. But the father should have kept a better watch over his kid.


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## galeogirl (Aug 28, 2007)

Maybe it's not very macho, but I would have followed the father and son back to their car and given the license number to the police for whatever good it might do.


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## elephantspider (Aug 28, 2007)

Agreed. It seems that some children make better cage animals after all...


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## Tim Benzedrine (Aug 28, 2007)

galeogirl said:


> Maybe it's not very macho, but I would have followed the father and son back to their car and given the license number to the police for whatever good it might do.


Now THAT would have be the smart (and sane) thing to do. And I'm surprised that you were the first to suggest it. Apologies in advance if somebody else did and I merely missed it.

I feel the same sickening outrage that many of you do, but it must be kept in perspective. Does my inner primitive monster that lives in my brain say "Yeah, the kid deserved to be stomped!"? You bet. But luckily, my more rational side usually prevails during this sort of inner debate.
 And wouldn't "an eye for an eye" mean one would have to track the kid down and kill his pet if he had one?:?


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## R.W. (Aug 28, 2007)

I would have tackled and probably ended up killing the kid...or at least maiming him severley:evil: :evil: :evil:


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## Scorpendra (Aug 28, 2007)

they say that abusing and killing animals is a common childhood sign of mass-murderers.


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## dtknow (Aug 28, 2007)

now think of the press it would be for the exotic keepers if Scott did retaliate in response?

I can just see the headlines...


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## sick4x4 (Aug 28, 2007)

soo should the kid be put in the same realm with vick????? as both were horrific but it seems the boys offence is more disturbing....


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## Drachenjager (Aug 28, 2007)

RoachGirlRen said:


> ::rolls eyes:: Did I say anything about being anti-spanking, or anti-punishment, or anything along those lines? If so, please point it out to me. In fact, I believe I suggested something a little more strict than a spanking: jail time.
> My comment regarding the child needing counselling is in reference to the fact that this is disturbed, violent behavior that could amount to harming more animals or even humans if not corrected early. If this child is some kind of blooming sociopath, it needs to be recognized and if possible, treated. And I'm sorry, but when a kid is that out of control, more needs to be done than a mere belting.


no YOU didnt , just most CPS do. Because they have ID 10 T errors. BUT lack of corporal punishment in this country is why there are so many kids out of control like this one. HAD he been disciplined like people used to be , he , no matter what he wanted to do, would have been afraid to do anythign like that. Many people would love to do certian thigns but don because they know its going to have consequences. I have little use for most counselling , most is based on bogus ass umptions


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## Drachenjager (Aug 28, 2007)

R.W. said:


> I would have tackled and probably ended up killing the kid...or at least maiming him severley:evil: :evil: :evil:


and you would be in court for murder and i would support the death penalty seeing as you have this type thign planned out.


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## Drachenjager (Aug 28, 2007)

i cant help but wonder tho, what would have happened if this kid tried that with a 20 foot green anaconda...

I really cant imagine anyone who would kill a human rather than an animal if it came to that. I have news for you. If Ted Bundy was alive and i had to choose between him and a house cat , id choose Ted to kill but ...If i didnt know anything about a person at all, and had to kill every pet i ever had or that person, id sure miss my pets. And anyone that dosent value human life more than an animals ...i pity you.


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## K-TRAIN (Aug 28, 2007)

Drachenjager said:


> And anyone that dosent value human life more than an animals ...i pity you.



animal and human life is equal. its just that alot humans are blind to the fact that animals are what keep us alive, so they say that human life should be valued more. 

im not saying anything directed towards you, Drachenjager, but im just stating how we are equal to animals.


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## Hedorah99 (Aug 28, 2007)

It just basically shows a lack of respect children are taught for nature in this day and age. I see the same thing at the zoo all the time. Kids throwing sticks at peacocks or chasing them relentlessly while the parents laugh of goad them on. Whether or not you place a bird on the same level as human being, it still deserves respect for being a living creature. Same goes for a bug, an ant, and even a snake. 

I'd like to think my actions in this situation would be to detain father and son and let them face the consequences of their actions (the sons violent attack and apparently the parenting impotence that created a child that cannot be brought in public). The people saying the kid should be beaten probably are no better than the child himself. 

My tactics at the zoo when trying to teach respect for an animal is to relate what the child did to themselves. If I see a kid, or an adult for that matter, trying to yank out a peacocks feathers, I ask nicely if they would like it i pulled out a clump of their hair. Well, one lady was a biznitch about it so I asked if I could pull out a fingernail with some pliers (not tactful but got the point across). If I see people chasing the birds or other animals,I ask if they would enjoy that. Some kids, if they are older, I take a running jump at and ask if they liked that when they flinch in shock. The point is people don't understand an animal deserves to be left alone and live its life regardless of whether we like them or not.


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## R.W. (Aug 28, 2007)

Drachenjager said:


> and you would be in court for murder and i would support the death penalty seeing as you have this type thign planned out.


I'd like to apologise if I offended you. I would not actually have harmed the child, but under the circumstances I would have quickly got a hold of him. I value human life hihly over the life of an animal. But if it was my snake, which I love dearly, well...I wouldn't just stand there. Once again I truly am sorry for offending you. I meant what I said only in anger. As a Christian, I should not let my anger ge the best of me or allow myself to say such things about people. Thank you for bringing the rreality of what I said to my attention.

Like your signature says: "Seek ye first"


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## robbie (Aug 28, 2007)

Hedorah99 said:


> It just basically shows a lack of respect children are taught for nature in this day and age.



see you are assuming that that a lot of them are being taught.  Yes I am a teacher and I have noticed a lot of kids these days don't just have a lack of respect for nature but also a total lack of respect for anything other than themselves.  I try my hardest to instill some sort of respect in them and some times it works and a lot of other times it doesn't.  This does not mean I won't keep trying though. Life is my passion and I try to share it with others as much as I can.

There is a bright note though sometimes you can get through to some and they in turn go on to share it with others.  This is my life work and I encourage others to go on and share their knowledge and respect for life (animal or not) with others.


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## Meaningless End (Aug 28, 2007)

wow.. all i have to say is wow...

i just dont know what can go threw a persons head to think that its ok to go threw with something like that. i mean even as a young child to go and act out such a thing is unbelivable.  i just hope the kid gets help and snaps out of it before life takes him threw a turn for the worse..... and i fear it will.


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## Snakefox (Aug 29, 2007)

yuck .....some one stomp that evil little kid before he grows up and kills us all!!!


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## mr.wilderness (Aug 29, 2007)

Snakefox said:


> yuck .....some one stomp that evil little kid before he grows up and kills us all!!!


Yes! Well, maybe we shouldn't _kill_ the kid, but at least send him to some psychiatric ward.

First it's an innocent flower.
Then it's ants under a magnifying glass.
When he get's older he's mutilating squirrels and your cat.
And ten years later- Dun dun dun!!- You have a serial killer! 

And not the run-of-the-mill kind either. The cannibalistic kind.


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## loxoscelesfear (Aug 29, 2007)

is michael vick his dad?


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## John Apple (Aug 29, 2007)

While the kid is definately no Michael Vick, the fault goes to his parents for not educating the child. Granted a beautiful snake was lost the child was not at fault. The law is such that if a minor does a dastardly deed the parents pay. 
The comments made to the child were in my opinion worse than the deed the child did. 
I have six children and they all were tought to RESPECT any living creature. Hell man they catch and release any bug or spider they find in the house out the back door. Oddly enough my 3 boys and 3 girls can tell you more about nature than most educated adults.
Like I said this is a terrible thing but ol dad is at fault and human life is far above animal life


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## Anita (Sep 15, 2007)

Nivek said:


> Oh my god...That is disgusting. I'm originally from that area and I know Scott, and how much he loved that gorgeous snake. That's just horrible.


I feel so much for Scott and his loss. God knows how much that snake suffered in its last moments and how much pain Scott is in. I would hate to have to go through what he has been through. Send him my heartfelt condolences from me and all us snake loving people in the United Kingdom. 
Our laws about animal cruelty are quite strict over here and this youngster and father would surely face criminal  charges if caught under the Cruelty of Animals Act and would face a fine and never be allowed to keep any animals for life for an act like this. Although this would still not bring back this beautiful snake or heal Scott's pain.


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## Nick12007 (Sep 15, 2007)

K-TRAIN said:


> animal and human life is equal. its just that alot humans are blind to the fact that animals are what keep us alive, so they say that human life should be valued more.
> 
> im not saying anything directed towards you, Drachenjager, but im just stating how we are equal to animals.


We are equal in _worth_ to animals, exactly because we are interconnected, alive, and inextricable from the nature around us, not to mention the fact that we are Animalia.

If you do believe that humans are "higher" than animals, then you should still see how atrocious it is for a human to therefore abuse an animal.  I know this hasn't been disputed, but I felt that the issue of humans being higher than animals needed addressing, especially since this is likely the approach that leads to people thinking less of the matter, and to this behavior in the first place.  

In the end, as my signature suggests, life deserves respect and appreciation, and there shouldn't be a hierarchy on life's worth.  Putting humans higher purely for...I have no clue what logical reason...is entirely confounding to me since, as has been stated, humans can be evil, humans mess things up when they really should know better, while animals are entirely creatures removed from such issues.  There's no common basis for comparison for these two approaches to life.

In the end, it was a horrible thing to have happened, the kid is definitely going to regret things he's done, whether directly because of disciplinary action for this event or when things turn out terribly further on in his uncorrected life.


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## thedude (Sep 16, 2007)

i hate to add to  this  but i couldnt hold it in any longer...

there is kids and people out in this world who do the most wrongest things, this kid will be on of them, this is almost worse than lighting a dog or cat on fire but no one is going to get blamed in the mixed up world of ours the parents response will be " he's just a kid he didnt know better", well it's the parents fault for not teaching the kid that even animals have souls, they ARE living creatures and who gives them a right to decide what lives and dies?? ... the only time you kill any animal is ofr protection or food or the animals HAS to be put down so it doesnt suffer, but if you kill for the sake of killing you should be locked up, when i was doing a demo at a local school a kid came up to me when i had one of my roaches out and said "can i squish it" i imidiatly put the roach back in his cage and said no  and the teacher came over and took the boy to the side and talked to him... but is that going to correct the problem?? NO , we live in a F-ed up world where people think there kids can learn right and wrong qw/o there intevetion saying all they need to do is express them selves BS!, granted im sure kids have pulled out fine but i knew a kid groing up who would get hit if he did any thing wrong, that didnt stop him, he still did the stuff his parents disaplined him about, every day i get amazed at how humans can be so vain and have so much stupidity, im sorry i ranted on like this but it let me get the anger out... the father should have to pay the price of the snakeand  where ever the demo took place but i highly doubt the judge will see it this way...


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## Stylopidae (Sep 16, 2007)

C'mon, guys...what the kid did was obviously above and beyond wrong but how is assaulting a 10 year old any better?

There could be circumstances you don't know about, mental problems and such. I've seen some serious, scary stuff from the days I was a camp counselor and believe me when I say that there are some truly messed up kids out there and it's not always the fault of the parents.

Most of the time, but not always.

As much as I'd liked to have followed him to his car, would that really have been a viable option?

Leave all those reptiles unattended...especially when you just lost one of your favorites?

There's some fault on the exhibitor. When I do shows with my spiders, I always bring along at least one friend to help out. Plus, there's always one or two people who are more interested in the rest and offer to stick around and help out. I never let them touch the animals directly but I let them hang out and help with the presentation (putting stuff up, taking it down, etc.).

Don't get me wrong...nobody could ever anticipate something like this.

As for what should be done, I would have had someone follow them and get their plate number. Wherever they were at most likely had a security camera or two so it would be quite easy to follow them after the fact, as well.

Yes, the child should be punished. Yes, the father should be punished. At the very least pay for the snake (10 foot albino burmese pythons aren't cheap) and throw the toughest animal creulty punishments possible at them. This was an educational program and the toughest possible penalties should be applied, but neither is deserving of death. Especially if you take into account what I said earlier. The death penalty should not apply in this case. That is your emotions speaking. Jail time?

Well the father isn't responsible, so maybe for the child.

Counceling?

Definitely. For the entire family, with a focus on that child.

A physical beat-down for either party?

Hell, no.

Grow up and learn a bit about what happens in the real world. Things aren't always black and white...cut and dry.


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## Transylvania (Sep 17, 2007)

That's so disturbing...  Since I live near the House of Reptiles, I should pay Scott a visit. I feel so sorry for him.
Concerning the kid... all of you who were talking about beating him to death and stomping on his face and whatnot... you might've heard growing up (*from your parents* - hint hint) that _two wrongs don't make a right_. The majority of you seem to have forgotten that important rule.
So it's obvious that many things taught to children don't exactly stay with them as they grow up. People have to learn by their experiences and mistakes, that's a fact.
Before I was born, my parents used to live in west Texas, where rattlesnakes are very common. They're both terrified of snakes, and while I was growing up they told me over and over that snakes are "viscious, evil creatures that serve no purpose." My dad has probably killed dozens of snakes in his life (apparently, from the stories I heard, he chopped their heads off with a shovel). The poor innocent rattlesnakes didn't deserve that. And even though I was raised to believe that snakes should be always be killed, I don't accept it. In fact, when I move away to college, the first thing I'm doing is getting a ball python.
Another example of why a lot of the things parents teach their kids aren't always _accepted_ by the kids. No matter how hard you beat or spank or counsel the kid, he'll still have that belief deep down in him; you can't force a belief on anyone, they have to change themself.
Of course, that's _not always the case_. I'm not trying to imply that. I do believe that most of what your parents teach you creates a base for your entire character.
My two siblings and I were all raised the same, to believe in the same things (Christianity especially), and to act the same way. Yet my sister was once a satanist (or still is, I have no clue), my brother drinks and smokes illegally, and... well, I love snakes. xD
So our personal beliefs can get the best of us. 
I might've went a little OT there, sorry if I did. Just trying to say that you can't "beat sense into a kid." But it can make them terrified of you!


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## Morax (Sep 19, 2007)

*tottally un called for*

a 10 ft albino burrmese python, that one hell of a snake, what kid would stomps on  him/her. :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: I would have grabed that kid and beat some ass....thats messed up


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## Mister Internet (Sep 19, 2007)

Morax said:


> a 10 ft albino burrmese python, that one hell of a snake, what kid would stomps on  him/her. :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: I would have grabed that kid and beat some ass....thats messed up


Oh goody another internet warrior...

^^^ see my previous post above...


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## MasamuneX7 (Sep 21, 2007)

Mister Internet said:


> Oh goody another internet warrior...
> 
> ^^^ see my previous post above...


I'm not just an internet warrior... I would have really grabbed the kid and slapped him hard. The dad would've probably tried to hit me after that, at which point he's in for a beating for not educating the kid properly, and for my own self-defense. There are not too many average joes who can fight an experienced mixed martial artist, and I'm not just BSing about it like people tend to do on the internet with everyone thinking they could kick anyone's ass and what not. I AM the real deal and I've been training in various styles for about 3/4 of my life.

Sorry, but I don't stand for anyone getting away scot-free for killing someone else's beloved pet. No, he's getting straight hard discipline right then and there, the father most of all. I would do it even if it weren't my snake and I were a bystander. If I had killed that guy's snake, my father would've beaten me on the spot in front of everyone and offered the guy a deep apology and compensation for it. The damn kid's lack of respect for life is disgusting and the dad has no sense of honor. Seeing how the dad reacted, it's no surprise his kid turned out like that.

Oh what, so I beat someone else's kid. Big deal. Physical injuries heal and are forgotten about. Even if the dad beat the kid at home (which he might not even do), it wouldn't do a damn thing. He'd go out and do something stupid again. The kid needs a beating along with his worthless dad out in public by a complete stranger for humiliation. That's not something he's going to forget about. What that snake owner felt, all the time he spent caring for his pet, he's not going to forget about how some random spoiled brat came in one day and smashed his snake's head in when he was trying to spread the love. So sue me for caring about having good ethics.


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## John Apple (Sep 21, 2007)

MasamuneX7 said:


> I'm not just an internet warrior... I would have really grabbed the kid and slapped him hard. The dad would've probably tried to hit me after that, at which point he's in for a beating for not educating the kid properly, and for my own self-defense. There are not too many average joes who can fight an experienced mixed martial artist, and I'm not just BSing about it like people tend to do on the internet with everyone thinking they could kick anyone's ass and what not. I AM the real deal and I've been training in various styles for about 3/4 of my life.
> 
> Sorry, but I don't stand for anyone getting away scot-free for killing someone else's beloved pet. No, he's getting straight hard discipline right then and there, the father most of all. I would do it even if it weren't my snake and I were a bystander. If I had killed that guy's snake, my father would've beaten me on the spot in front of everyone and offered the guy a deep apology and compensation for it. The damn kid's lack of respect for life is disgusting and the dad has no sense of honor. Seeing how the dad reacted, it's no surprise his kid turned out like that.
> 
> Oh what, so I beat someone else's kid. Big deal. Physical injuries heal and are forgotten about. Even if the dad beat the kid at home (which he might not even do), it wouldn't do a damn thing. He'd go out and do something stupid again. The kid needs a beating along with his worthless dad out in public by a complete stranger for humiliation. That's not something he's going to forget about. What that snake owner felt, all the time he spent caring for his pet, he's not going to forget about how some random spoiled brat came in one day and smashed his snake's head in when he was trying to spread the love. So sue me for caring about having good ethics.


Touch my kids and the father [me] would not get a beating you would...now that the thumping is done....was there not any cameras there that got a image of the father and son duo?.
This is a loss ...the animal ...yes but also the kid who was un-poperly educated . What is the the level of severity here


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## Mister Internet (Sep 21, 2007)

MasamuneX7 said:


> I'm not just an internet warrior... I would have really grabbed the kid and slapped him hard. The dad would've probably tried to hit me after that, at which point he's in for a beating for not educating the kid properly, and for my own self-defense. There are not too many average joes who can fight an experienced mixed martial artist, and I'm not just BSing about it like people tend to do on the internet with everyone thinking they could kick anyone's ass and what not. I AM the real deal and I've been training in various styles for about 3/4 of my life.
> 
> Sorry, but I don't stand for anyone getting away scot-free for killing someone else's beloved pet. No, he's getting straight hard discipline right then and there, the father most of all. I would do it even if it weren't my snake and I were a bystander. If I had killed that guy's snake, my father would've beaten me on the spot in front of everyone and offered the guy a deep apology and compensation for it. The damn kid's lack of respect for life is disgusting and the dad has no sense of honor. Seeing how the dad reacted, it's no surprise his kid turned out like that.
> 
> Oh what, so I beat someone else's kid. Big deal. Physical injuries heal and are forgotten about. Even if the dad beat the kid at home (which he might not even do), it wouldn't do a damn thing. He'd go out and do something stupid again. The kid needs a beating along with his worthless dad out in public by a complete stranger for humiliation. That's not something he's going to forget about. What that snake owner felt, all the time he spent caring for his pet, he's not going to forget about how some random spoiled brat came in one day and smashed his snake's head in when he was trying to spread the love. So sue me for caring about having good ethics.


Just so I understand you properly... killing a snake for no reason is wrong (STILL no auxiliary information here about the kid's mental health, etc), but beating the kid for it, and then trying to call "Self-defense" when the Dad steps in, that's "good ethics".

You know what, I almost wish you had been there that day... then you'd be locked up like the menace to society you are.  "Blah blah blah I'm the real deal blah blah blah".  And you WONDER why people have a distasteful impression of fighters... it's because 80% of them act like over-hormonal 14 year olds.  I certainly don't want anyone who consciously considers their honed fighting skills a valid weapon to use on a CHILD, or who honestly believes they have the right to enact vigilante justice, roaming the streets anywhere near my family.

You don't actually talk like this is real life do you?

I can tell you one thing... if that was MY kid, and you even laid a finger on him, it wouldn't matter if you were Fedor himself... how dare you.


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## ta2edpop (Sep 21, 2007)

I wish that I could be the real deal. Instead I have made it a point to teach all my children how to behave. Mr. I-nicely said. Real Deal-do you have children?


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## MasamuneX7 (Sep 21, 2007)

I never considered using honed fighting skills on a child. You must have misunderstood me, because I said I would slap the kid, not destroy him. If the father touched me, I would fight back. He deserves punishment for not taking responsibility for it. A scolding would then be in place. You would want to see me locked up for helping someone? Put yourself in the kid's shoes and think about how you'd react if a random person slapped you, then gave your father a lesson on how he's done a horrendous job of raising you.

Hell if there are any medical expenses I'd pay for them. I would expect the father to actually thank me for that afterwards. You cannot say: "if i were the father you would get it for beating my kid" because you don't actually know what it's like to be a father of an annoying little brat like that do you? Apparently my words are too harsh, but how dare YOU raise a failure into the world? What is that kid going to be like when he grows up? He and his father are the menace to society, not me.

You look at these serial killers, rapists, child molesters... and you read about their backgrounds. See a commonality in all of them? See how they were either abused or weren't taught right? I could go on forever with the subject of irresponsible parenting.

As a matter of fact, I do talk like this in real life, and I have a very well-behaved 2 year old son. Unlike that father, I actually care about raising him properly.


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## Stylopidae (Sep 21, 2007)

Cheshire said:


> C'mon, guys...what the kid did was obviously above and beyond wrong but how is assaulting a 10 year old any better?
> 
> There could be circumstances you don't know about, mental problems and such. I've seen some serious, scary stuff from the days I was a camp counselor and believe me when I say that there are some truly messed up kids out there and it's not always the fault of the parents.
> 
> ...


I hate quoting myself.

You need to learn about how things work in real life, like Mr. I said. You have no information about the mental health of the child which is in itself is a perfectly good reason to completely dismiss you as a rational human being.


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## MasamuneX7 (Sep 21, 2007)

Cheshire said:


> I hate quoting myself.
> 
> You need to learn about how things work in real life, like Mr. I said. You have no information about the mental health of the child which is in itself is a perfectly good reason to completely dismiss you as a rational human being.


I suppose you carry that explanation onto the father as well? The root of the problem is after all, him. Counseling is something that should be accomplished at a later time. I am direct and to the point, so it would be imperative for the father and his son to know the severity of it at that time. I am well aware of the legal issues involved.


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## Hedorah99 (Sep 21, 2007)

Mister Internet said:


> I can tell you one thing... if that was MY kid, and you even laid a finger on him, it wouldn't matter if you were Fedor himself... how dare you.


Please don't invoke Fedor's name! It will only displease him. We don't need Fedor recklessly ground and pounding random people on this site. Did you also know Fedor is the only fighter who can armbar a snake? Perhaps this is better for the MMA thread. 

And I really think the beatings should not stop at teh child and father. Why not attack the mother, the guy who owned the liquor store that sold the $12 bottle of wine that lead to the conception of the child, the doctors who delivered him, etc etc etc...

I feel safer already knowing "the real deal" is on this site monitoring what injustices warrant random violence as a solution.


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## Hedorah99 (Sep 21, 2007)

MasamuneX7 said:


> I never considered using honed fighting skills on a child. You must have misunderstood me, because I said I would slap the kid, not destroy him. If the father touched me, I would fight back. He deserves punishment for not taking responsibility for it. A scolding would then be in place. You would want to see me locked up for helping someone? Put yourself in the kid's shoes and think about how you'd react if a random person slapped you, then gave your father a lesson on how he's done a horrendous job of raising you.
> 
> Hell if there are any medical expenses I'd pay for them. I would expect the father to actually thank me for that afterwards. You cannot say: "if i were the father you would get it for beating my kid" because you don't actually know what it's like to be a father of an annoying little brat like that do you? Apparently my words are too harsh, but how dare YOU raise a failure into the world? What is that kid going to be like when he grows up? He and his father are the menace to society, not me.
> 
> ...


Yes, and I'm sure its a great lesson that daddy went to jail for knocking the shellac out of a guy for trying to stop someone for beating his kid.


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## Drachenjager (Sep 21, 2007)

MasamuneX7 said:


> I'm not just an internet warrior... I would have really grabbed the kid and slapped him hard. The dad would've probably tried to hit me after that, at which point he's in for a beating for not educating the kid properly, and for my own self-defense. There are not too many average joes who can fight an experienced mixed martial artist, and I'm not just BSing about it like people tend to do on the internet with everyone thinking they could kick anyone's ass and what not. I AM the real deal and I've been training in various styles for about 3/4 of my life.
> 
> Sorry, but I don't stand for anyone getting away scot-free for killing someone else's beloved pet. No, he's getting straight hard discipline right then and there, the father most of all. I would do it even if it weren't my snake and I were a bystander. If I had killed that guy's snake, my father would've beaten me on the spot in front of everyone and offered the guy a deep apology and compensation for it. The damn kid's lack of respect for life is disgusting and the dad has no sense of honor. Seeing how the dad reacted, it's no surprise his kid turned out like that.
> 
> Oh what, so I beat someone else's kid. Big deal. Physical injuries heal and are forgotten about. Even if the dad beat the kid at home (which he might not even do), it wouldn't do a damn thing. He'd go out and do something stupid again. The kid needs a beating along with his worthless dad out in public by a complete stranger for humiliation. That's not something he's going to forget about. What that snake owner felt, all the time he spent caring for his pet, he's not going to forget about how some random spoiled brat came in one day and smashed his snake's head in when he was trying to spread the love. So sue me for caring about having good ethics.


martial arts are not going to help you. While you were hitting the kid, you would have had my cane across your neck. BTW its not just a cane, it would remove your head from your shoulders.
However if it was my kid you would have to pull me off the kid before you got the chance. He would have a sore butt. But i got news for you , you would have died on the spot if it was my kid, and you attacked him. Period. 
Grow up, people like you are what gives martial arts a bad name.


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## MasamuneX7 (Sep 21, 2007)

Drachenjager said:


> martial arts are not going to help you. While you were *hitting* the kid, you would have had my cane across your neck. BTW its not just a cane, it would remove your head from your shoulders.
> However if it was my kid you would have to pull me off the kid before you got the chance. He would have a sore butt. But i got news for you , *you would have died on the spot* if it was my kid, and you attacked him. Period.
> Grow up, people like you are what gives martial arts a bad name.


It only takes one hit.

Do you mean to tell me you were never hit by your parents when you were young? It's amusing that you all react this way online, yet if the incident were to occur to you, you'd attempt to kill me for slapping your kid when your kid killed my snake? You have issues then. I'm not killing your kid. I'm not even pummeling your kid. I'm slapping him. I'm letting him know that what he did was wrong. It's education. And you're going to kill me for doing that. Ironic that you should say I'm giving martial arts a bad name when you'd be willing to kill me instead of accepting your son's fault. Wow, how passive society has gotten now. YOU are perpetuating the problem.


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## MasamuneX7 (Sep 21, 2007)

Hedorah99 said:


> Please don't invoke Fedor's name! It will only displease him. We don't need Fedor recklessly ground and pounding random people on this site. Did you also know Fedor is the only fighter who can armbar a snake? Perhaps this is better for the MMA thread.
> 
> And I really think the beatings should not stop at teh child and father. Why not attack the mother, the guy who owned the liquor store that sold the $12 bottle of wine that lead to the conception of the child, the doctors who delivered him, etc etc etc...
> 
> I feel safer already knowing "the real deal" is on this site monitoring what injustices warrant random violence as a solution.


I like how you compounded everything I said to dramatize it, even a joke about Mr. Emilianenko.

Yes, I do wonder what kind of injustices warrant random violence as a solution, when everyone here has said they'd want my head for merely slapping their kid. What shall I do? Stand there and take your punishment because it's not right of me to fight back, when you, the father, are the core of the problem?

Trust me, I have no reason for hitting or "educating" any of your kids, because obviously you're all competent enough to accept responsibilities for their actions from reading your posts, but the problem in your logic is that you don't look at it from the perspective of that specific kid's father and if you had a son like him. You don't look at it from the perspective of a guy who just "hits and runs".


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## Stylopidae (Sep 21, 2007)

Oh, my god. Assaulting a potentially mentally ill child and someone defending their child from the attack are two completely different things.

Do you ever read your posts out loud?

Try it sometime.


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## BishopiMaster (Sep 21, 2007)

matamune i think your forgetting something about what martial arts is all about.
it IS self defense, and usually teaches someone to be well disciplined and seriously use it under life threatening conditions. Martials arts is a very dangerous art and under limited circumstances should one use it offensively.

On a sidenote, i think you/and/or other people should not get themselves into stuff they could have very easily avoided


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## MasamuneX7 (Sep 21, 2007)

Cheshire said:


> Oh, my god. Assaulting a potentially mentally ill child and someone defending their child from the attack are two completely different things.
> 
> Do you ever read your posts out loud?
> 
> Try it sometime.


Everyone and their mother writes off a problematic child as mentally ill without taking blame for their actions. Child doesn't want to read? ADD. Another excuse there. Look, there are few mental illnesses that can actually be attributed to genetics, that is, without environmental influences. Whose fault is it that the child has problems like these? A child's brain exhibits much plasticity. Gee, I wonder what went wrong there, did he automatically develop it after living a relatively happy and well-behaved life? I am a student of genetics as well as a part-time martial arts instructor, so if you feel so inclined to discuss the subject of "mental illnesses" I am happy to do that with you.

I read my posts outloud as I type.



BishopiMaster said:


> matamune i think your forgetting something about what martial arts is all about.
> it IS self defense, and usually teaches someone to be well disciplined and seriously use it under life threatening conditions. Martials arts is a very dangerous art and under limited circumstances should one use it offensively.
> 
> On a sidenote, i think you/and/or other people should not get themselves into stuff they could have very easily avoided


Thank you for being calm in your post. I do understand what martial arts is about, it's just that my correcting the kid has no bearing on my martial arts experience or discipline. Most of these people here just think I'm going to KO or guillotine the kid when I say he needs to be slapped, and just as I said earlier, what am I going to do if the dad rushes at me? Stand there and take the hits? He knew very well what his kid did was wrong, and he should by any measure of logic, know that I didn't slap the kid for no reason.

One thing I've always had as a practitioner is a sense of honor. I absolutely cannot stand anyone who doesn't take responsibility for their actions.


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## AneesasMuse (Sep 21, 2007)

It is a terrible shame that Scott's snake was killed by this child and the father just walked away, not apologizing or compensating or anything. It really, really is. 

No one here knows the situation with that child.... only the child's actions on that particular day and with that particular animal. 

But after following this thread and getting up to this point, today... I finally have to post. If I were there and it had been my child... (this would NEVER be the case, I assure you).. and someone from the bystanding crowd approached my child, even after such a grievous offense.... and so much as _threatened_ physical contact with him.......... there would be some MOTHER ARTS on YOUR behind, I assure you! I wouldn't kill you unless you put my child's or my own life in danger, but I would make you remember to NEVER ever attempt to put your hands on another person's child again. That is not your place! It is NOT YOUR PLACE to do that regardless of the scenario. And I thoroughly understand your frustration for the animal, as I have a Zoo here in my home and I would be beyond wicked mad if someone did something to one of my "babies"... but DO NOT touch my children and expect to draw back, fully intact. 

I have to agree with the other posts here, as well... to the one boasting about the all powerful knowledge of martial arts, etc. ...you have sadly and sorely missed the discipline and total concept of the system(s) you claim you have studied.


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## MasamuneX7 (Sep 21, 2007)

AneesasMuse said:


> It is a terrible shame that Scott's snake was killed by this child and the father just walked away, not apologizing or compensating or anything. It really, really is.
> 
> No one here knows the situation with that child.... only the child's actions on that particular day and with that particular animal.
> 
> ...


I believe you misunderstood me. I would not use martial arts for any reason other than to protect someone or myself in the case of a life-threatening situation. The situation in discussion does not call for use of martial arts, it calls for disciplinary measures, and in the case that the father attacks me, I have no choice but to counter. You don't seem to understand that if you had a problematic child, you likely would not react the same as you are currently, especially after such a serious wrongdoing, and ESPECIALLY after you took off running without so much as an apology.


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## AneesasMuse (Sep 21, 2007)

We all understood you perfectly, here.. which is why you're getting the response you're getting. You seem to think you have some right to put your hand on someone else's child for a wrong that you have witnessed... and YOU DO NOT!!! Bottom line! You keep trying to twist this to make you seem like a victim now... just like a child... I'm finished with it. I made my point. Be careful about putting your hands on other people's children.


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## MasamuneX7 (Sep 22, 2007)

AneesasMuse said:


> We all understood you perfectly, here.. which is why you're getting the response you're getting. You seem to think you have some right to put your hand on someone else's child for a wrong that you have witnessed... and YOU DO NOT!!! Bottom line! You keep trying to twist this to make you seem like a victim now... just like a child... I'm finished with it. I made my point. Be careful about putting your hands on other people's children.


Let me put it to you: violence is not the answer to violence. This is not violence, this is discipline.

The child needs education and guidance. The moment the father said "This is why I don't take you anywhere" it told me straight off that the kid has done something this serious before and that it came as no surprise to the father. What does that tell you about what the father has done since then? So I have no business putting my hand on someone else's child? He has no goddamn business fathering this kid.

I'm twisting it now? Since you are all, from what I can tell, responsible and caring people, I fail to see how you would be able to put yourselves in that guy's shoes and still act as you are now. Not even a "sorry" before leaving. Now Scott has to bear with the fact that no one even had the selflessness to pursue and stop them, and thus doesn't know who the culprits were.

You all saying you would not handle me disciplining your _questionable_ child, you either do not quite understand what that says about yourself and/or you have not yet begun to think on a societal level. Humans are generally selfish or tend to only think about those in their own close-knit groups. As far as I can say, if your child has been doing this so much and you've abstained from seeking counseling and therapy for your child, then someone else, such as I, have *every right* to do what you're not doing. Why should I care? I told you. I'm a father myself. I don't need my son or any other children I may have in the future growing up around kids like these. You are making this society worse for all of us. Our future lies with our children.


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## Stylopidae (Sep 22, 2007)

Wow! You read from a genetics textbook a few times a week and that makes you qualified...how, exactly?

I worked at an overnight camp as a councelor for nearly half a decade. I've worked with hundreds of children. Believe me when I say I'm far more qualified than you are to make my claims.

I've seen bad parenting. I've seen mentally ill. I've seen abuse. I've seen trauma. I've seen and heard things which would leave even a monster like you with nightmares for weeks. You do not know what is going on with this family and that alone should keep you from jumping to any conclusions.

You have no idea what you are talking about and the ignorance in your posts is at a level which I can only refer to as incredible.


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## John Apple (Sep 22, 2007)

Ignorance is bliss....that being said ..., so is hitting someones else kid for damaging your animals or property.
I can remember once my truck window was broke and I cought the culprit. He was an eleven year old child. I held the kid brought him to his parents house and they paid the damage to my vehicle and I am sure that kid got it good from his parents. long story short the kid mowed my lawn for a summer and I am sure could not sit down for a week after his folks got him.
I remember back many years ago my older son was accosted at a park by some people of ethnic origin, I went there confronted the people [who were all adults bragging of thier fighting background to my face] and walked away with a fat lip and a broken hand. They were much worse off as the police broke it up and took two to the hospital before jail. Like I said it doesn't matter what ya know but what your in it for. Defending our kids should not even be questioned. If ya know what ya know and the father came at you for slapping his kid you could put him on the ground or tie him up  without hurting him bad as he is just defending his [somewhat irregular] child. Smart people do not tell what they know or brag, we learn
Some of us don't like to let others know what we know unless we are backed into a corner as our abilities could seriously hurt a body


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## Drachenjager (Sep 22, 2007)

MasamuneX7 said:


> It only takes one hit.
> 
> Do you mean to tell me you were never hit by your parents when you were young? It's amusing that you all react this way online, yet if the incident were to occur to you, you'd attempt to kill me for slapping your kid when your kid killed my snake? You have issues then. I'm not killing your kid. I'm not even pummeling your kid. I'm slapping him. I'm letting him know that what he did was wrong. It's education. And you're going to kill me for doing that. Ironic that you should say I'm giving martial arts a bad name when you'd be willing to kill me instead of accepting your son's fault. Wow, how passive society has gotten now. YOU are perpetuating the problem.


are you too stupid to read taht i would have spanked the kid myself? You have no right to touch my kid at all. period. so yeah you should die for attacking a child. anyone who attacks a child is deserving of death. A parent spanking thier child is not an attack but you slapping my child is. and you are the problem


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## John Apple (Sep 22, 2007)

Drachenjager said:


> are you too stupid to read taht i would have spanked the kid myself? You have no right to touch my kid at all. period. so yeah you should die for attacking a child. anyone who attacks a child is deserving of death. A parent spanking thier child is not an attack but you slapping my child is. and you are the problem


Some people just can't see the face in the mirror looking back at them:?


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## MasamuneX7 (Sep 22, 2007)

Drachenjager said:


> are you too stupid to read taht i would have spanked the kid myself? You have no right to touch my kid at all. period. so yeah you should die for attacking a child. anyone who attacks a child is deserving of death. A parent spanking thier child is not an attack but you slapping my child is. and you are the problem


Read the last paragraph of my last post.



John Apple said:


> Ignorance is bliss....that being said ..., so is hitting someones else kid for damaging your animals or property.
> I can remember once my truck window was broke and I cought the culprit. He was an eleven year old child. I held the kid brought him to his parents house and they paid the damage to my vehicle and I am sure that kid got it good from his parents. long story short the kid mowed my lawn for a summer and I am sure could not sit down for a week after his folks got him.
> I remember back many years ago my older son was accosted at a park by some people of ethnic origin, I went there confronted the people [who were all adults bragging of thier fighting background to my face] and walked away with a fat lip and a broken hand. They were much worse off as the police broke it up and took two to the hospital before jail. Like I said it doesn't matter what ya know but what your in it for. Defending our kids should not even be questioned. If ya know what ya know and the father came at you for slapping his kid you could put him on the ground or tie him up  without hurting him bad as he is just defending his [somewhat irregular] child. Smart people do not tell what they know or brag, we learn
> Some of us don't like to let others know what we know unless we are backed into a corner as our abilities could seriously hurt a body


Restraining someone in real life is not as simple as it sounds. Even with experience, real life is not a drill. It is not as easy to just tie him up without hurting him bad. You're right, geniuses are never self-proclaimed.



Cheshire said:


> Wow! You read from a genetics textbook a few times a week and that makes you qualified...how, exactly?
> 
> I worked at an overnight camp as a councelor for nearly half a decade. I've worked with hundreds of children. Believe me when I say I'm far more qualified than you are to make my claims.
> 
> ...


By student, I meant that I'm a scientist who has not yet received his PhD. I do research. I don't read from a textbook. See your own writing in *bold*.

I've seen a person get blasted out of an apartment building from a natural gas explosion and fall to his death. That is more than anything you can provide me, but that's a different subject. See your own writing in *bold*.

Your preaching is sickening. I'm a monster to you? Some counselor you are.


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## John Apple (Sep 22, 2007)

MasamuneX7 said:


> Restraining someone in real life is not as simple as it sounds. Even with experience, real life is not a drill. It is not as easy to just tie him up without hurting him bad. You're right, geniuses are never self-proclaimed


Yes , But reacting in anger is something we were not tought. Life is not a drill I agree but I have found taking a lump and then restraining someone without serious harm is not allways as hard as it looks. Angry people do not think and that is where reasonable force excells. But then you were tought that.


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## ta2edpop (Sep 22, 2007)

What if that child had autism, or was mentally slow. Just due to his comment that he hated snakes doesn't imply that he wasn't. You wouldn't know-BUT you would slap him and slap him hard!
I am the first person to stand up for punishment. You seem to have some warped veiw that you can wonder about slaping and spanking kids that you deem worthy of an ass-wooping. You don't. You can twist the words around as much as you want, your comments speak for yourself.
I would like to state though that one day you might fiind yourself with a bullet in your ass and all the Bruce Lee fliping in the world would nowhere come close to saving your petty ass if you decided to smack one of my children.
I have no tolerence for you. I would assume that your comment started out as a meen to assert your manhood, but it seems to have blown up in your face.
I have no degree. I am no "scientist." Hell, I'm sure my post is riddled with misspelled words. I am a father. A father who invests alot of time in his children. Trust me "real deal" you need to look in the mirror.


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## ZooRex (Sep 22, 2007)

Alright, I've stayed outta this for a while and hadn't planned on joining in, that is until I read the following....



> Let me put it to you: violence is not the answer to violence. This is not violence; this is discipline.


That makes no sense what so ever. Of coarse it is violence; you are just using violence in a disciplinary action. Anyway, as stated above, the only persons with the right to enforce any kind of discipline would be 1.Parents and2.the Police, not you a bystander.



> You look at these serial killers, rapists, child molesters... and you read about their backgrounds. See a commonality in all of them? See how they were either abused or weren't taught right? I could go on forever with the subject of irresponsible parenting.


They were abused... you said it yourself. Than how can the solution be to dish out more abuse on a kid, and then "defend" you from an enraged father in front of said kid? That would be a horrible experience both mentally and physically. Also, I'm not sure how you can honestly say that it would be self defense against a person who is acting on such a deep, instinctual level when you are hurting their child.



> You are making this society worse for all of us. Our future lies with our children.


It’s ironic that you brought this up. I really don't know how you think this supports your train of thought. How are we making society worse? By refraining the use of violence even if in the moment we may want to cause pain. In my opinion that is the epitome of a higher and more sophisticated society. You said yourself violence is not the answer, but I'm not so sure you know what that actually means. I suggest you take a page outta Ghandi, John Lennon, or his holiness the Dali Lama. Maybe then you will realize how to make real progress when you want to make earth a better place


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## Stylopidae (Sep 22, 2007)

Okay...fine. I'll just start breaking your posts apart bit by bit.

First off:



> You all saying you would not handle me disciplining your questionable child, you either do not quite understand what that says about yourself and/or you have not yet begun to think on a societal level. Humans are generally selfish or tend to only think about those in their own close-knit groups. As far as I can say, if your child has been doing this so much and you've abstained from seeking counseling and therapy for your child, then someone else, such as I, have every right to do what you're not doing. Why should I care? I told you. I'm a father myself. I don't need my son or any other children I may have in the future growing up around kids like these. You are making this society worse for all of us. Our future lies with our children.


You flat out said you would assault the child and then assault the father if he tried to step in. A simple smack would be over too quick for the father to step in. You were not talking about restraining (as I pointed out, following the family to the parking lot to get the liscense plate number of their car would have been sufficient), you were talking about an assault.

Other than that...you are assuming the family is not in the process of seeking counceling for their son's problems and jumping to a thousand other conclusions that you are obviously not qualified to make.

Then, you are rationalizing your ficticious assault by saying it's for the good of society when you _don't know the whole story behind the family._

You claim to be getting a PHD in genetics. However, not all of psychology is genetic. Some is, but some isn't. Case in point:

Back when I was a counselor, one of my friends had a child who was prone to fits of rage stemming from a violent sexual assault that left him fighting for his life for three weeks. The child _was_ in therapy and had been for a few months.

Certian situations set him off...I don't remember what exactly, but I had to be on hand once or twice to help calm things down. Under certian situations, he became extremely violent very quickly.

Bad parenting? Genetics?

You're the one claiming to be on the verge of a PHD, you tell me.

I don't need to have a PHD in genetics to know that not all causes of abnormal human behavior are genetic. Emotional and physical trauma at an early age can cause mood disorders and completely rewire the brain. Therapy isn't a magic switch that makes people better overnight. It takes work...a massive amount. There are huge leaps forward, setbacks, regressions. You might know a little about genetics, but you know nothing of psychology.

The example of the dude getting blown out of his kitchen while horrific (and thus doubtful) has nothing to do with this conversation. Mine does.


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## MasamuneX7 (Sep 22, 2007)

ta2edpop said:


> What if that child had autism, or was mentally slow. Just due to his comment that he hated snakes doesn't imply that he wasn't. You wouldn't know-BUT you would slap him and slap him hard!
> I am the first person to stand up for punishment. You seem to have some warped veiw that you can wonder about slaping and spanking kids that you deem worthy of an ass-wooping. You don't. You can twist the words around as much as you want, your comments speak for yourself.
> *I would like to state though that one day you might fiind yourself with a bullet in your ass and all the Bruce Lee fliping in the world would nowhere come close to saving your petty ass if you decided to smack one of my children*.
> I have no tolerence for you. I would assume that your comment started out as a meen to assert your manhood, but it seems to have blown up in your face.
> I have no degree. I am no "scientist." Hell, I'm sure my post is riddled with misspelled words. I am a father. A father who invests alot of time in his children. Trust me "real deal" you need to look in the mirror.


And I'm pretty sure you're a rational person as well. /sarcasm

This is a waste of time both for you and for me, forget about it. I have no interest discussing with intransigent and selfish people.


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## Hedorah99 (Sep 22, 2007)

MasamuneX7 said:


> And I'm pretty sure you're a rational person as well. /sarcasm
> 
> This is a waste of time both for you and for me, forget about it. I have no interest discussing with intransigent and selfish people.


Wow, i gotta say you are a real piece of work. You come into a thread for the sole purpose of posing yourself as the love child of randy Couture and Dr. Spock  and then somehow act surprised and victimized when we say you sound like a violent psychopath who would beat a child's father after assaulting the child himself in the name of discipline. I wish there was an emoticon that made a tossing off gesture but in all sarcasm I leave this one......:worship:

Truthfully, was there a purpose other than to say, "I am the real MMA deal"? Was this meant to make us swoon towards you? All the other keyboard warriors at least didn't go into the training they had to deal out their brand of justice. I am still trying to figure out if you believe the crowd would cheer you on as you pummel father and son, or, in all likelihood, they would pin your ass to the ground (or worse) and allow the police to drag you off to the maximum security jail where you get to hone your skills while avoiding gang rape in the shower or being traded like a pack of smokes. Oh, this reminds me, I need to go to the bar and watch the UFC, where I will beat the bartender into a state of walking retardation if they don't fill my pint to the top. You call it violence, I call it consumer protection.


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## ragnew (Sep 22, 2007)

MasamuneX7, do you HONESTLY think you'd be able to lay a hand on someone elses child, in public, and not expect to be lynched for it?

I'm sorry, but if I (or anyone else I know) ever witnessed a complete stranger "smacking" a child said childs father wouldn't be the only concern. It's instinct, and in all honesty, my instinct would be to aid this childs father in beating your ass.

You need to get your priorities straight. Time to sit down and actually think about whether or not you should be doing ANYTHING martial arts related.


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## ta2edpop (Sep 22, 2007)

MasamuneX7 said:


> And I'm pretty sure you're a rational person as well. /sarcasm
> 
> This is a waste of time both for you and for me, forget about it. I have no interest discussing with intransigent and selfish people.


I'm not the one talking about slaping-don't forget HARD-someone elses kid. I must sound like a real monster.....that too is sarcasm.


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## intriqet (Sep 23, 2007)

*uh..?*

:| euthanize the kid? kill him softly?!? whats the matter with you people?!! 

The father's a dickwad, the kid was his responsibility and for him to just flee from the scene shows just what a great character he must be. If he couldn't pay the guy for his loss then he should have at least apologized for his son's actions and made his kid do the same thing. 

Still the kid is... a kid, kid's make mistakes. I shot a cat when i was 9 with a bebe gun and the cat probably died. Would i shoot a cat now? Maybe if one kept crapping on my lawn! kidding, no i wouldn't. 



> Originally Posted by MasamuneX7  View Post
> It only takes one hit.
> 
> Do you mean to tell me you were never hit by your parents when you were young? It's amusing that you all react this way online, yet if the incident were to occur to you, you'd attempt to kill me for slapping your kid when your kid killed my snake? You have issues then. I'm not killing your kid. I'm not even pummeling your kid. I'm slapping him. I'm letting him know that what he did was wrong. It's education. And you're going to kill me for doing that. Ironic that you should say I'm giving martial arts a bad name when you'd be willing to kill me instead of accepting your son's fault. Wow, how passive society has gotten now. YOU are perpetuating the problem.


uh what the hells wrong with you?!! I don't have any children yet but why would anyone think its kudos for a complete stranger to lay a finger on their child? you are a sad sad person. but at least you know martial arts so you can use it on the next unsuspecting child who kicks a dog in front of you.


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## intriqet (Sep 23, 2007)

> Restraining someone in real life is not as simple as it sounds. Even with experience, real life is not a drill. It is not as easy to just tie him up without hurting him bad.


No its not but if you know as much as you claim to know about mma then you should know that you don't have to beat the pulp out of someone to have to be able to restrain them. i read a couple of your posts that i must've missed earlier and i want to comment about how much of a babbling idiot you sound like, but i really don't need to, others already have. and yes thank you for giving it a rest, i must admit that it was a little entertaining to read the posts and see how you're one "i'm big and bad mr real deal" comment turned around to bite you in the ass rather quickly, but i think everyones had enough. I'm gonna go see if my pet rock that supposed to be a tarantula has moved now.


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## Arachnobrian (Sep 23, 2007)

After reading this thread in entirety, the responses are shocking.

This sounds more like a legal issue. If it was a prized show dog which was injured or killed instead, I'm sure the humane society would be involved. Why do exotic pets such as snakes not get the same regard?

If it was my snake, I would have pursued the father for imformation to start the legal process of sueing for the value of the snake, and possibly some for pain and suffering for loss of pet. Not sure what the outcome would be. But it would certainly let the father of the child understand the severity of his kids actions.

My condolences to the owner who lost the snake. A terrible loss.


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## MasamuneX7 (Sep 23, 2007)

intriqet said:


> No its not but if you know as much as you claim to know about mma then you should know that you don't have to beat the pulp out of someone to have to be able to restrain them. i read a couple of your posts that i must've missed earlier and i want to comment about how much of a babbling idiot you sound like, but i really don't need to, others already have. and yes thank you for giving it a rest, i must admit that it was a little entertaining to read the posts and see how you're one "i'm big and bad mr real deal" comment turned around to bite you in the ass rather quickly, but i think everyones had enough. I'm gonna go see if my pet rock that supposed to be a tarantula has moved now.





intriqet said:


> uh what the hells wrong with you?!! I don't have any children yet but why would anyone think its kudos for a complete stranger to lay a finger on their child? you are a sad sad person. but at least you know martial arts so you can use it on the next unsuspecting child who kicks a dog in front of you.


Another idiot who failed to understand, I see.

Restraining itself by use of grappling methods still results in injury to the person no matter how serious, especially when that person has an intent to beat YOU to a pulp. Real life isn't a Hollywood movie.

Rather it just shows how preachy the people on this forum are. Not everything is nice and peachy in the world. There are certain times when pacifism is important, and this is not one of them. Now what's humorous is that you and others sound like idiots to anyone I explain this to in real life who has read everything. Now you must be thinking that I've only shown people who are just as much of a "babbling idiot" as I am, but this is not true. I've shown coworkers, friends, my boss, etc. It's not like they all have a duty to agree with everything I say, but thus far no one has disagreed. Either I can't properly convey my thoughts to you in text format in a way in which people here can actually interpret and understand, or this forum is really just full of a bunch of uptight nannies.

Now, I've actually gotten PMs from people who agree with me on this, yet don't want to waste their energy getting into the discussion so at least there are some rational people here. In the meantime, I have no interest in discussing matters like these with people such as yourselves anymore, so I'll limit myself to using this forum for invert/pet needs and info from now on. You guys sure are something... I guess my nickname here will be "Real Deal the Monster".  

Good day.


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## Arachnobrian (Sep 23, 2007)

Just curious, what would a snake such as the one in this story be worth?
(same size, albino, etc.)


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## beetleman (Sep 23, 2007)

Ottawaherp said:


> Just curious, what would a snake such as the one in this story be worth?
> (same size, albino, etc.)


they can run from 250.00 up to about 500.00


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## Quixtar (Sep 23, 2007)

beetleman said:


> they can run from 250.00 up to about 500.00


Is albino cheaper than the normal coloration? I'm not too into the unnatural look.


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## beetleman (Sep 23, 2007)

Quixtar said:


> Is albino cheaper than the normal coloration? I'm not too into the unnatural look.


albinos are always alittle more than the normal ones,being that they are not found in the wild(they are captive bred)albinos wouldn't survive in the wild,the normal coloration ofcousre is attractive,and cheaper,i like them both in my opinion


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## ShawnH (Sep 23, 2007)

How terrible!


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## dtknow (Sep 23, 2007)

MasamuneX7 said:


> Now, I've actually gotten PMs from people who agree with me on this, yet don't want to waste their energy getting into the discussion so at least there are some rational people here. In the meantime, I have no interest in discussing matters like these with people such as yourselves anymore, so I'll limit myself to using this forum for invert/pet needs and info from now on. You guys sure are something... I guess my nickname here will be "Real Deal the Monster".
> 
> Good day.


Do you honestly think that you as an adult could go and slap someone else's kid?

The violent comments in this thread are very disturbing. Snake people don't exactly have a good reputation. Imagine what kind of story the reporters could make if one of you crazies was there. Even with this tragic incident...I thought the news article might have been about some kid surviving a python attack in a jungle. Unfortunately"Kid kills python at educational display" wouldn't have gotten as much press.


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## ta2edpop (Sep 23, 2007)

Of course he can---he is the real deal. Saving the world slapping one child at a time.


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## Hedorah99 (Sep 23, 2007)

ta2edpop said:


> Of course he can---he is the real deal. Saving the world slapping one child at a time.


And "restraining" the father into a more enlightened state of fatherhood.


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## Arachnobrian (Sep 23, 2007)

beetleman said:


> they can run from 250.00 up to about 500.00


That's it? I had the impression a 10ft snake would be worth much more than that. 

Either way value aside, it still does'nt exscuse the behavior of the kid or his father.

The owner obviously had this snake as a pet for some time to reach this size, and was probably attached to it like any pet owner would be.


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## ZooRex (Sep 23, 2007)

> Of course he can---he is the real deal. Saving the world slapping one child at a time.


My thoughts exactaly... I also find it rather interesting that he decided to quit this thread with out responding to my only post. Rex



> Alright, I've stayed outta this for a while and hadn't planned on joining in, that is until I read the following....
> 
> Quote:
> Let me put it to you: violence is not the answer to violence. This is not violence; this is discipline.
> ...


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## Quixtar (Sep 23, 2007)

I didn't want to get involved with this, and it may be that I'm fueling a dying fire here, but some of you guys are blowing this way out of proportion.

Aside from Masamune's extreme views, he brought up a number of good points. Would it have made a difference if the kid had kicked the owner's dog in the head and killed it instead of a snake? Sure it's the parents' responsibility to discipline the kid and no one else's, but in the case of something like this, some responsibility has carried over to that of the affected. It isn't just a possession that he broke, it's a life he took, the life of a creature that the owner has cared for and loved for years. While I don't believe a bystander would have any right to carry this out since it does not directly affect them, the owner does, and Masamune did put himself in the place of the owner as well.

What I see here is that some of you sympathize with the owner, and then the problem quickly boils down to: "You hit my kid, you're dead, no matter what" with no "whats" or "ifs". Others just take what he says completely out of context by saying that he should go use his martial arts talent to beat up more kids. Way to be mature, guys.

As brought up earlier, there are many unknowns to consider, the kid could have had a mental illness or had some form of extreme trauma relating to snakes when he was young, possibly leading to Ophidiophobia. Also, we don't have information on the age of the kid. He could have been as young as an elementary school student to as old as a high schooler. I'm sure that factors into the whole issue of slapping him.


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## skinheaddave (Sep 23, 2007)

Quixtar said:


> As brought up earlier, there are many unknowns to consider,


If only there were some way of considering all those issues and coming to some meaningful and informed conclusion about the nature and degree of blame to be placed on both the kid and father and perhaps even arranging for some degree of compensation to the snake's owner.  Oh, wait, it is called the legal system.  And yes, I know it is far from perfect -- but on the whole I think that the brand of justice it doles out is statistically more measured than the brand of justice a mob doles out.

In situations like this, the priorities are quite simple:

1.  Prevent further harm to *anyone*.
2.  Attend to the injured
3.  Get a good description of the suspects, try to follow them and relay your location to the police if it is possible to do this safely, collect witnesses for the police to talk to etc.  Basically do what you can to ensure the whole thing ends up well sorted out as it enters the afformentioned legal system.

So in other words, Paige had the perfect response.  There was no threat of further harm since the kid and father skedadled.  The owner was almost certainly attending to the snake.  So following them to their car to get the license plate would be a good tactic.

To those who have these grand visions of vigilante justice or whatnot, let me tell you that from my experience, when something like this happens everyone's first reaction is to drop their jaws and do a double-take.  I worked at a bar for many years and so saw a lot of people thrown into situations for the first time.  I used to always tell trainees that their very first situation they would simply drop their jaws and that the action would be over and out the door before they started to move.  Only with time do you learn to start moving before your brain cues in -- and only with more time do you learn to start moving in the right direction.

And I don't want to come off as some know-it-all "real deal."  I worked at a relatively tame bar for four years as a bouncer and two years as a manager in charge of the door staff.  During that time, I saw about as much action as a cop or similar might see in one night.  In the six years, I managed to come away with no serious injuries (luck), caused no serious injuries (luck) and never came out the bad end of the legal system (though I was questioned once for assault -- once again, luck kept me on the up-and-up).  I did learn a few things, though:

When it comes to violence, you train and prepare and then you throw the dice to see the outcome.  I've seen Goliaths (and I mean in terms of ability, not just size) taken down by Davids countless times.  I saw the results of one lucky punch put a guy in a coma for a month.  I saw a girl in real trouble for standing in the wrong place at the wrong time.  I've seen a guy hit the ground  in a way that by all rights should have killed him and then get up and I've had to restrain HIM.  Let's see ... I've been part of about 800 lbs of bouncers that had a hard time subduing one guy on a combo of steroids/beer.  And the list goes on.  MasamuneX7 acknowledged that it only takes one hit -- but fails to realize that sometime he might be on the receiving end of that hit.

The other thing Mas has to learn is that real world violence is not like on TV, but is also not like anything you will ever do in a dojo.  Even my relatively tame experiences over the years taught me to take everything I'd learned in the martial arts and chuck away 99% of it.  I ended up my years with two, maybe three "moves" that I would use.  All of them were heavily bastardized versions of distant relatives in the martial arts curriculum.  

Cheers,
Dave


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## Quixtar (Sep 23, 2007)

skinheaddave said:


> The other thing Mas has to learn is that real world violence is not like on TV, but is also not like anything you will ever do in a dojo.  Even my relatively tame experiences over the years taught me to take everything I'd learned in the martial arts and chuck away 99% of it.  I ended up my years with two, maybe three "moves" that I would use.  All of them were heavily bastardized versions of distant relatives in the martial arts curriculum.
> 
> Cheers,
> Dave


Of course that's what it's like with any martial arts. The number of useful techniques for you grows the more accustomed you become to executing them to the point that it's second nature. No one can truly master everything a style has to offer.


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## Quixtar (Sep 24, 2007)

KingRex said:


> My thoughts exactaly... I also find it rather interesting that he decided to quit this thread with out responding to my only post. Rex


Another thing I'd like to mention is that this sort of thing is both cultural and societal. Here in the US, you can't quite resolve this without getting the authorities involved, not to mention that slapping kids is viewed wrongfully by the majority of the white population - not to generalize or anything, but this seems to be the case with what I've experienced growing up. In other countries, the authorities wouldn't care. You can easily resolve this amongst yourselves, and among the minority population in the US, many see nothing wrong with that kind of discipline. I assume that most people here are white Americans, so of course the general population here would side against slapping the kid.

It's not a matter of right or wrong, as you could bring up valid points for either side, because right and wrong are heavily dictated by society.


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## Arachnobrian (Sep 25, 2007)

Quixtar said:


> Another thing I'd like to mention is that this sort of thing is both cultural and societal. Here in the US, you can't quite resolve this without getting the authorities involved, not to mention that slapping kids is viewed wrongfully by the majority of the white population - not to generalize or anything, but this seems to be the case with what I've experienced growing up. In other countries, the authorities wouldn't care. You can easily resolve this amongst yourselves, and among the minority population in the US, many see nothing wrong with that kind of discipline. I assume that most people here are white Americans, so of course the general population here would side against slapping the kid.
> 
> It's not a matter of right or wrong, as you could bring up valid points for either side, because right and wrong are heavily dictated by society.



Huh??? Not sure how I got involved in this pissing match, with the post you quoted me on. I did my best to steer clear of the kid stomping vigilante war of the words.

I was questioning the value of a 10ft albino burmese python being worth $250-$500. I had the impression it may be worth more, and as a long time pet to the owner I'm sure it would be priceless. 

Was only curious because I have seen smaller snakes sell at shows for $25000 + .


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## beetleman (Sep 25, 2007)

Ottawaherp said:


> Huh??? Not sure how I got involved in this pissing match, with the post you quoted me on. I did my best to steer clear of the kid stomping vigilante war of the words.
> 
> I was questioning the value of a 10ft albino burmese python being worth $250-$500. I had the impression it may be worth more, and as a long time pet to the owner I'm sure it would be priceless.
> 
> Was only curious because I have seen smaller snakes sell at shows for $25000 + .


babies will always be alittle more because they are easier to sell most people want babies so they can grow them themselves,alot of people don't have the room for the big ones,they end up almost giving them away(zoos,theme parks,breeders etc) i'm in fla. and they are everywhere and people are always trying to get rid of them,too big etc,hell they even release them here i used to work in a exotic reptile store and at least 1x week someone would want to sell/even give away their big burmese albino or normal types,but to the person who owned the 1 that got killed to him it would be priceless,(because he was keeping it as his pet)but they are common,and the big ones don't sell as quickly as the babies


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## Arachnobrian (Sep 25, 2007)

beetleman said:


> babies will always be alittle more because they are easier to sell most people want babies so they can grow them themselves,alot of people don't have the room for the big ones,they end up almost giving them away(zoos,theme parks,breeders etc) i'm in fla. and they are everywhere and people are always trying to get rid of them,too big etc,hell they even release them here i used to work in a exotic reptile store and at least 1x week someone would want to sell/even give away their big burmese albino or normal types,but to the person who owned the 1 that got killed to him it would be priceless,(because he was keeping it as his pet)but they are common,and the big ones don't sell as quickly as the babies


Thank you for the value clarification.


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## beetleman (Sep 25, 2007)

no problem always glad to help.


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## Quixtar (Sep 25, 2007)

Ottawaherp said:


> Huh??? Not sure how I got involved in this pissing match, with the post you quoted me on. I did my best to steer clear of the kid stomping vigilante war of the words.
> 
> I was questioning the value of a 10ft albino burmese python being worth $250-$500. I had the impression it may be worth more, and as a long time pet to the owner I'm sure it would be priceless.
> 
> Was only curious because I have seen smaller snakes sell at shows for $25000 + .


Whoops, my bad. I quoted the wrong person. Yeah, beetleman answered it.


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## Endagr8 (Jan 15, 2009)

ignorant kid=ignorant parents


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## EightLeggedFrea (Jan 15, 2009)

This just ruined my day.

This is why I'm N E V E R going to have children.


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## Warren Bautista (Jan 15, 2009)

Dylan to Evli Monkey "That's what you get for killing my snake, B1+ch!"

[YOUTUBE]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/WgjcvxQjpKA&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/WgjcvxQjpKA&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/YOUTUBE]


But still a very sad story.


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## tarantulaholic (Jan 15, 2009)

Idiot kid should be in handcuff, procecuted and pay for crime. Father should pay for damage, worth/value of snake/time spent raising the snake to the 10feet size.
If I was in crowd, I would have grabbed that kid, till authorities arrived. 
:wall: :wall: :wall: :wall:


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## Atreyuhero4 (Jan 15, 2009)

I hope you guys know that this thread is over 2 yeards old.


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## ZooRex (Jan 16, 2009)

^ Yeah I was gonna say this looks strangly familiar. To think its been two years...really takes me back...

sorry-spam


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## P. Novak (Jan 16, 2009)

Atreyuhero4 said:


> I hope you guys know that this thread is over 2 yeards old.


Actually it's about a year and 4 months old..


...sorry had to be a smart ass.  


Never chimed in, but now that I PERSONALLY own a 10+ Albino burmese python, oh man I don't know what I'd do if someone did that to my boy. I would persue a law-suit and make sure that kid ends up with some form of punishment. Whether it's LOADS and LOADS of community service, or some time behind bars. Something to teach this kid that is NOT right.


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## -Exotic (Jan 18, 2009)

wow a kid curb stompped a snake. You know your cool when.


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## CRX (Jan 18, 2009)

Omg, jesus christ... There are no words to describe how sick and angry this has made me.... utterly disgusting. If that had been my snake, I'd probably be on death row right now for killing the boy and his father. Stuff like this just makes me explode.


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## Draiman (Jan 18, 2009)

Disgusting. I cringed when I read this. I certainly wouldn't have slapped the boy, but certainly getting hold of him (as well as the father) until the relevant authorities arrived would be about right. It is appalling behaviour for such a young child to exhibit, and letting him go without at least attempting to correct such behaviour would be irresponsible.


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## pnshmntMMA (Jan 20, 2009)

that is the most rediculous thing ive ever heard. i hope that kid gets swallowed by an anaconda. i wouldnt have been able to restrain myself i would have ripped them apart, or at the very least sued their YOU KNOW WHATS off.


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## Mister Internet (Jan 20, 2009)

pnshmntMMA said:


> that is the most rediculous thing ive ever heard. i hope that kid gets swallowed by an anaconda. i wouldnt have been able to restrain myself i would have ripped them apart, or at the very least sued their YOU KNOW WHATS off.


Oh goody, another hormonal MMA "spokesperson"... another dose of exactly the kind of publicity fighting needs.  

See my earlier statements in this thread.  Some people need a serious reality check.


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## IrishPolishman (Jan 20, 2009)

That is a horrible horrible story.  Sounds like the kid from the movie _Cabin Fever.  I would have been screaming at the pair if not worse._


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## Beardo (Jan 21, 2009)

Mister Internet said:


> Oh goody, another hormonal MMA "spokesperson"... another dose of exactly the kind of publicity fighting needs.
> 
> See my earlier statements in this thread.  Some people need a serious reality check.


I concur. 

As a fellow MMA practitioner and fan, it pains me to see Tap-Out wearing posers behave in such immature ways. 

While I would be LIVID if someone were to kill one of my animals in front of, wishing harm upon a child is simply sick. An adult is a different story.


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## ThomasH (Jan 21, 2009)

This following post is not to demean you in any way but to merely fill my curiousity and I truly apologize if this just isn't my place. I find it somewhat odd that I see people talk like this on the internet many times a day for the hour that I'm on. Yet have not witnessed this "strength, virgility and brutality" in person. Then again, I've only had a developed memory for less than a decade now and am told by good sources that I haven't the mental capacity of an adult. I may be wrong, as I make mistakes too. So my question for you, PnshmntMMA, is have you ever talked like you have been on this thread to another living human being in person? Also if I were to get ahold of your phone number and call you, would you be this tough?
Thats it.
Thank you for your cooperation,
TBH


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## ThomasH (Jan 21, 2009)

DavidBeard said:


> While I would be LIVID if someone were to kill one of my animals in front of, wishing harm upon a child is simply sick. An adult is a different story.


My exact thoughts.
TBH

<EDIT> I just looked at your profile, PnshmntMMA, I find it quite disturbing that your words came out of a police officer and volunteer fire fighter's mouth.


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## cjm1991 (Jan 21, 2009)

sidexkick said:


> maybe we should jump on that kids head and see what happens.


I couldnt agree more. I just now stumbled across this thread, but it is deeply depressing. I am truely sorry for the snakes owner, but for every action theres a reaction and I believe the reaction will get the kid in alot of trouble down the line. Hopefully he see's some kind of punishment for this aweful story I have read.


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## ThomasH (Jan 21, 2009)

This thread has really started worrying me. The original story was sad when I read it over a year ago but hearing all these people talking about what they would like to do with the child is the most disturbing part. Who says the kiddo didn't have a learning disability? Who said the father intentionally tried to run away like a fugitive? He could have just fled because he felt like he was going to die of embarassment. We've all felt embarassment like this before, come on. I'm not saying what happened, I'm just saying that there is a possibility that these people aren't monsters. I pray to the good Lord that this is all just "smack talk" and no one would really do what they are saying. Children just don't have the intellect or chance to face lethal punishment like you all claim you would do. Amen.
TBH


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## Beardo (Jan 21, 2009)

One thing I have learned over my decade of experience with internet message boards is that the anonymity of the world wide web brings out "courage" and bravado in people that they would normally never allow to come to the surface in their day to day life. 

I can just abut guarantee that nobody would have laid a hand upon the child were they present for this fiasco. I myself would have been so shocked that I could not have likely yelled "HEY! YOU KILLED MY SNAKE!" let alone act in a physical manner towards a small child.


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## ThomasH (Jan 21, 2009)

DavidBeard said:


> One thing I have learned over my decade of experience with internet message boards is that the anonymity of the world wide web brings out "courage" and bravado in people that they would normally never allow to come to the surface in their day to day life.
> 
> I can just abut guarantee that nobody would have laid a hand upon the child were they present for this fiasco. I myself would have been so shocked that I could not have likely yelled "HEY! YOU KILLED MY SNAKE!" let alone act in a physical manner towards a small child.


Thanks DB, I'm beginning to reach that conclusion from online forums myself.
TBH


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## Tim Benzedrine (Jan 21, 2009)

Mister Internet said:


> Hi, whoever you are.  See the large, bold font my user name is in?  That means you don't get to tell me what to do.  Just thought I'd clear that up in case it wasn't already obvious.


Heh. I wondered if that would be brought to attention, but I really think that the less apparent, small-font "arachnoadministrator" would be a better indication that one's words should be chosen carefully. Not to say that mods or admins are (or should be) immune from dissent, but you REALLY want to stay within the rules when you go after one of them!

 After reading his post. I checked PnshmntMMA's profile too, and like BoaConstrictor, I found the idea that his occupation was in law enforcement to be a tad disquieting. It also raises the question of why that profession was chosen.
Having said that, the thing to keep in mind is that people often use hyperbole in reaction to stories like the one in this thread.. I try not to do it, but I'm sure I've reacted in a knee-jerk fashion myself when something has upset me. Heck, I may have even done so in this very thread, 
The problem is, with the anonymity of the 'net, it is very hard to tell if somebody is just engaging in outrageous indignation, or is really a psychopath that would beat a minor for harming a snake.

The kid  deserved  some sort of punishment, probably a pretty severe one. Whether such a punishment should have been meted out in a physical manner is debatable, but the question of whether it should have been dealt out by an angry stranger is not. Restitution is definitely in order. Along with maybe a side-order of counseling.


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## Beardo (Jan 21, 2009)

Well said, Tim. Great minds think alike.


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## JColt (Jan 21, 2009)

BoaConstrictor said:


> <EDIT> I just looked at your profile, PnshmntMMA, I find it quite disturbing that your words came out of a police officer and volunteer fire fighter's mouth.


I work in a Police Dept and you would be surprised what some officers thoughts are. I remember thinking when I started there how nice and professional it was going to be. Boy was I wrong!


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## ThomasH (Jan 21, 2009)

Tim Benzedrine said:


> After reading his post. I checked PnshmntMMA's profile too, and like BoaConstrictor, I found the idea that his occupation was in law enforcement to be a tad disquieting. It also raises the question of why that profession was chosen.
> Having said that, the thing to keep in mind is that people often use hyperbole in reaction to stories like the one in this thread.. I try not to do it, but I'm sure I've reacted in a knee-jerk fashion myself when something has upset me. Heck, I may have even done so in this very thread,
> The problem is, with the anonymity of the 'net, it is very hard to tell if somebody is just engaging in outrageous indignation, or is really a psychopath that would beat a minor for harming a snake.


Nice observation and good point. I think almost everyone is guilty of those actions at some point in his or her life. I know that I've subjected others to reactions like this and I have also been subjected to these reactions. Some of the things said on this thread were just over the line and out of control, were a little upsetting and barbaric. Some things you just don't say.........ever!
TBH


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## Tim Benzedrine (Jan 21, 2009)

Thanks for the praise concerning my post, guys. Of course, I apparently I could have said it better because it was loaded with annoying little typos, which I fixed.  Nothing that changed the content, of course.


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## cjm1991 (Jan 21, 2009)

I dont see how someone could honestly do that to someone elses pet though, you know? What kind of parenting does that poor kid have :?

<edit>


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## Tim Benzedrine (Jan 21, 2009)

He's right. While it's fine to debate something that is not current, the only purpose making it personal will serve is to get the thread locked.


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## pnshmntMMA (Jan 22, 2009)

all i can say is this kid needs help. he has no respect for life, or the property of others. SERIOUS help... if it were my kid hed be punished, and id try to educate him on how snakes are beneficial to the envirnment. i retract my previous statement of beating the kid, i typed before i thought. no tv for a year haha. i wouldnt blame the father so much, kids can easily wander away from a distracted dad. i sure hope the owner recieved monetary compensation, not that that would take away from the loss of a beloved pet....


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## pnshmntMMA (Jan 22, 2009)

BoaConstrictor said:


> This following post is not to demean you in any way but to merely fill my curiousity and I truly apologize if this just isn't my place. I find it somewhat odd that I see people talk like this on the internet many times a day for the hour that I'm on. Yet have not witnessed this "strength, virgility and brutality" in person. Then again, I've only had a developed memory for less than a decade now and am told by good sources that I haven't the mental capacity of an adult. I may be wrong, as I make mistakes too. So my question for you, PnshmntMMA, is have you ever talked like you have been on this thread to another living human being in person? Also if I were to get ahold of your phone number and call you, would you be this tough?
> Thats it.
> Thank you for your cooperation,
> TBH


this is the internet, i come here for info on how to care for my pets, place online orders, check email, and update my ipod. its not the real world. i make a dumb statement about some deadbeat kid, and get flamed. i personally, could not care less, its the internet. it doesnt affect my real life. i have no problem talking trash to someones face if they deserve it believe me. but to give out my phone number online...no thanks. internet threats are sad man just let it go. if someone on here says something anyone else doesnt like just let it go its fake. i deal with tons of idiots everyday at work, trust me a friday night 11-7am beat shift in baltimore gives you the opportunity to get trash talked and threatened all the time. im not worried about some dude on a bug forum. enjoy your day.


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## cjm1991 (Jan 22, 2009)

Im also curious about if the kid was ever identified or fined.


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## pnshmntMMA (Jan 22, 2009)

i agree cjm i bet they got away tho..probly got outta there quick to avoid prosecution


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## ThomasH (Jan 22, 2009)

pnshmntMMA said:


> this is the internet, i come here for info on how to care for my pets, place online orders, check email, and update my ipod. its not the real world. i make a dumb statement about some deadbeat kid, and get flamed. i personally, could not care less, its the internet. it doesnt affect my real life. i have no problem talking trash to someones face if they deserve it believe me. but to give out my phone number online...no thanks. internet threats are sad man just let it go. if someone on here says something anyone else doesnt like just let it go its fake. i deal with tons of idiots everyday at work, trust me a friday night 11-7am beat shift in baltimore gives you the opportunity to get trash talked and threatened all the time. im not worried about some dude on a bug forum. enjoy your day.


You're right, it isn't the real world but it does have real consequences that could affect you. People get prosecuted daily, refused jobs, disowned, and cross referenced all just from their internet actions. You should still compose yourself in an appropriate manner. It is by no means fake or a game and I haven't threatened you??? I just offered to test you on the phone. You know, we do have a private messaging system here.
I say we all just let this thread die now.

TBH


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## cjm1991 (Jan 22, 2009)

pnshmntMMA said:


> this is the internet, i come here for info on how to care for my pets, place online orders, check email, and update my ipod. its not the real world. i make a dumb statement about some deadbeat kid, and get flamed. i personally, could not care less, its the internet. it doesnt affect my real life. i have no problem talking trash to someones face if they deserve it believe me. but to give out my phone number online...no thanks. internet threats are sad man just let it go. if someone on here says something anyone else doesnt like just let it go its fake. i deal with tons of idiots everyday at work, trust me a friday night 11-7am beat shift in baltimore gives you the opportunity to get trash talked and threatened all the time. im not worried about some dude on a bug forum. enjoy your day.



For the first time ever, possibly, I agree with you on something PNSHMENT  He also trys to get my number thinking it will make a difference somehow or make him look tougher. I personally Lol'd at the thought of a 14 year old making me see a point in something. Baltimore is a pretty rough place to live though, I have had family live there for some years.

On Topic: Oh Im sure they ran, and to think someone is so inconsiderate to just step on anothers pet. This thread reminds me of the kids who nailed a ball python to a post ..... sickens me.


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## DavidD (Jan 22, 2009)

I find it funny how you can make of someone they present facts. Do you even have a job


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## pnshmntMMA (Jan 22, 2009)

someone nailed a python to a post? thats sick... i felt bad when i killed a rabid fox with a pellet rifle, and that thing tried to bite me. how could you just, torture and kill something like that? you gotta have something missing in your head. or maybe a complete lack of conscience...


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## cjm1991 (Jan 23, 2009)

DavidD said:


> I find it funny how you can make of someone they present facts. Do you even have a job


Is there a question or something in this? Yes, Ive had a few jobs. All lasting over a year at the place, and now working as a hydraulic lift mechanic. /

The poor ball python thread was a few months old I think, but I think animal abuse laws should be very severe. Not as severe as human abuse, but soemwhere close. The animal didnt have a chance to stand up for itself nor did it even do anything wrong..


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