# The H. gigas Project.



## conipto

(If this should be in the watering hole, feel free to move it - ultimately the T will be put in, so I picked here)

Well, for those of you who didn't read the earlier thread involving my half-witted plan, I have decied to build a terrarium/aquarium that enables a tarantula to dive into water for fish prey (Hystocrates gigas).  Many people have said that these tarantulas do this, and I want to see if I can get one to try it in captivity.  Without further ado, I began this evening.

Lets hope the images will link from Angelfire - they have before...

Part One. - Aggravation, swearing, and shopping.

I began my evening with a trip to PetSmart, one of my least favorite places in the world (but the only place I know three blocks away with 7 dollar aquariums)  There, I purchased a 10 gallon glass aquarium (a bit big, but the only size that would work with the smallest filter I could find - She'll live in luxury), a 5 gallon size Air pump(since I'm using only a quarter of the tank for fish) and an under the tank filter, designed for 5 and 10 gallon aquariums.  

Next, on to Home Depot, where I purchased one sheet of 18"x24" plexiglass, a new drill bit, some aquarium silicon (never heard of it but I guess this would suit my purpose eh?) a set of hinges (for the lid) a plexiglass scoring tool, a steel carpenter's square (since things that flex are things that vex), a trio of C-clamps and of course, batteries for my digital camera.

Here's the loot:






Oh, and of course, some imported beer, which is essential to any thursday night project.

Well, first things first - I need to size everything up.  The under-gravel aquarium is made of two halves, that fill up the whole ten gallon aquarium.  since I want to only use a fourth of the aquarium for the fish, I'll have to cut one section in half.






But first, I decided to make the wall dividing the substrate area and the aquarium. There will actually be two, one fixed and one removable, but I still need to find some kind of rail for the removable piece, so I'll start with the fixed piece.  I measure it out, and clamp the square onto the plexiglass (despite the look of the picture, I did not clamp it to the glass table).  Next, I use the scoring tool to scratch a very deep groove where the plexiglass should break.  






OK, so far so good.  I've scored my plexiglass up pretty good, and it should snap like a twig, right?






Not even close.  

So, now I'm angry at this inferior method of plastic cutting.  Time to go into the closet and break out the big guns:







I was given this old dremel tool with a sears sticker on it about 9 years ago for a christmas present.  It is the oldest tool I currently posess, and if it can't do it, nothing can.  Having used it on plexiglass before, and made big messes in the past, the only thing I've found that can cut a straight line and not melt the plexiglass is a sanding disc, beleive it or not.  They usually cost about 2 dollars for 25 and the arbor for them comes with most bit-sets for dremel tools.  So, I then cut my piece with the dremel tool, which worked smooth as silk.  Next, I cut the under-gravel filter in half (I was really enjoying the new-found efficiency of my old tool) and opened a beer, to celebrate finally making some progress. (As well as give the stench of molten plastic time to dissapate):







Ah, the sweet smell of success.

Anyways, next I fit everything into place, and assembled the filter, to make sure I had height clearance and see how wide the hose would be to cut out a slot in the lid.







One thing I should mention, is that in doing this I seem to have forgotten about the silicon on the bottom joints of the tank.  Rather than leave a big gap along the bottom edge to only have to silicon closed later, I decided to cut some 45 degree corners on the piece:







Now, all that is needed on that piece are a few thin lines of silicon to hold it in place.

I decided to break for the night when my next door neighbor came to complain about the noise from me cutting the plexiglass with my dremel tool.  In the next few days, I'll be cutting the lid (hinged so that I can maintain only the aquarium if I wish to) and devising the removable portion of the divider (this will be so that upon settling in the H. gigas doesn't fill up my pond with dirt, and also so I can freely maintain the water area without having to worry about a mean african burrower giving me fang.)  Also, I've yet to silicon the divider in place, since I want to do that portion all at once.  I still need an H. gigas, too, but that should be taken care of by weeks end.

More to come,

Bill

Reactions: Like 1


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## Vayu Son

*><*

Awesome Bill,

Since your not done yet, you may want to consider some kind of flooding system so that you can flood the burrow periodically. This is how I have kept H.gigas hydrated in the past... since they tend to not frequent the water dish, It becomes essential to add enough water so that it seeps into the substrate and keeps the burrow nice and damp... I do this with C.crawshayi as well.

Peace and good luck.

-V


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## krystal

bill--
okay, who's the monkey with the red and yellow hat?

thanks for setting up such visually graphic pics that even the reading-impared tarantula enthusiast can get the jist of what to do when creating their own "h. gigas pond project."


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## conipto

> _Originally posted by krystal _
> *bill--
> okay, who's the monkey with the red and yellow hat?
> 
> thanks for setting up such visually graphic pics that even the reading-impared tarantula enthusiast can get the jist of what to do when creating their own "h. gigas pond project." *


That is Baby Bear's read along something or other.  it follows some classic kids stories out loud - so I don't have to.  I can't read out loud, no matter how hard I try.

Bill


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## That Guy

Dude  Good luck with that.......... Hope it goes well....


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## MrT

Bill, 
A little less beer drinkin, and a little more tank buildin. LOL

As soon as your done building yours, and decide all the ways you could have done it better, or how you could tweek it.
Let me know, cause I'll start mine then.

 I have 80% of the materials for my setup. I,m just going to wait till you get done, to hear what you have to teach me. 

Ernie


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## LPacker79

> That is Baby Bear's read along something or other. it follows some classic kids stories out loud - so I don't have to. I can't read out loud, no matter how hard I try.


"Hi, my name's Baby Bear.  This is a story that happened one day when mommy and daddy and I went away.  A little girl named Goldilocks came by....."

Oh god how I hate that stupid bear!  My nephew has one and he's constantly playing with the stupid thing.

Your project looks fabulous.  I'm anxiously awaiting for the next installment.

Leanne


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## Tarantula Lover

*hey*

Nice step by step! Good Luck on your project Bill! Cant wait for part 2!


keep em comin'


James


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## chid

Just a thought, when shopping for materials get 2 packs of Becks next time.

Chid


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## conipto

Part II - Lid making 101.

Well, the next part I've done is make the lid.  This part I decided to go into quite a bit of detail on, because I know alot of people have asked questions in the past about making terrarium lids.

To start off, as I had said before, the tank is in two sections.  So, I needed a two section lid, so that I can mess with just the fish if I have to.  I began by cutting the two pieces, and leaving about a quarter inch(5mm) gap between them (for the hinges).







Next, I affixed the hinges, using a very small drill bit so that the screws would fasten tightly. (this is the underside view)







You'll notice that the screws protrude quite a bit, and are very sharp.  Knowing my knuckles will be rubbing there when I remove the divider later on, I needed to cut them down. (also, My T might not like them much) This part, I should mention is best NOT to do with a dremel tool.  I used a flush-cutting pair of dykes, because the heat from a grinding or cutting bit on a dremel may have built up on the brass screws, and caused the plastic that it is screwed into to weaken or warp, and make my hinges useless.







Now that my hinges are in place, and working smoothly, I thought that that smaller lid might be prone to escapes, because of it's relative lack of weight.  Therefor, I devised a knob with a lock, using some machine parts I had laying around.  Basically, a couple washers, nuts, and a male to male electrical connector that I am using for the latch.







I assembled them as pictured below, and there are a few reasons I did it as such.  The washers both before and after the plexiglass will ensure that I can freely rotate the knob without loosening it. The three nuts under ensure that the latch will stay secure, and that my knob won't be rattling around over time. (they are all tightened against each other)







The knob was drilled off center, because apparently the aquarium was made to be locked by means similar to this, and had an off center ledge.  In the next two pictures, you can see the functionality of the locking knob.












Next, I realized that I needed an exit for the tube going out of the tank, so I dremelled out a notch for that real quick.






Now, my lid is complete:











Next up, devising and installing the divider, then.. if all goes well, adding the occupants.

Bill

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## conipto

Oh, one more thing - I'll be maintaining the substrate and fish without the T for a while, and measuring humidity.  I'll be drilling holes in the lid as needed, and will be adding the H. gigas only after I am satisfied with the humidity level.

Bill


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## krystal

wow bill--not only are you incredibly sexy, but you are quite an engineer, too!  very brilliant and well-thought-out project!  _and_ you're giving the instructions away FOR FREE just to benefit the hobby!

since you've done such a spectacular job, i think a naming of the revamped tank is in order!  

krystal


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## That Guy

dude  Your my hero! I hope I can build my own design of it( I always haft to do something more to the final project ;P) I hope you get a end result


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## MrT

*Wow*

Damn Bill,
That setup is super sharp. Really nice job..
How thick is the lid? Looks at least 1/4".
What kind of fish will you be keeping?
How will the gigas get out of the water after it goes fishing? A stepped, walk out, or swim and grab?
Do you think the filter will clean out the substrate the gigas dumps in the water?

You've got me all pumped up. I'm going to home depot tomorrow.
This is pretty exciting.=D 

Ernie


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## conipto

Hey folks, for anyone following this thread, It seems Angelfire does not like me linking pics here.  So, until I find something else, sorry for the Big Red X's.

Bill


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## conipto

In the mean time..

Here is Subject A, who will be chilling in this container for another day or two.

Bill


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## Nixy

Are you making a page with the pictures and step by steps?

Cause I'd Love to see the pics.


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## MrT

How big is Subject A?


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## conipto

*Re: Wow*



> _Originally posted by MrT _
> *Damn Bill,
> That setup is super sharp. Really nice job..
> How thick is the lid? Looks at least 1/4".
> What kind of fish will you be keeping?
> How will the gigas get out of the water after it goes fishing? A stepped, walk out, or swim and grab?
> Do you think the filter will clean out the substrate the gigas dumps in the water?
> 
> You've got me all pumped up. I'm going to home depot tomorrow.
> This is pretty exciting.=D
> 
> Ernie *


Yeah, it's quarter inch plexiglass - one of two things to put on my 'list of screw ups for ernie'  I should have gone a little thinner, though there is no harm in having it a little too thick (it still sits below the lip on the aquarium)  I'd probably use 3/16ths if I did it over.  The other screw up, was not knowing the right way to use the plexiglass scorer.  I did all the lid cutting with it, and once I got the hang of it, it makes way cleaner cuts than the dremel tool does.  Just requires alot of patience and light scratches.

As far as the fish go, at this point I'm thinking feeder goldfish.  Lots of people have fed them flopping on the ground to T's with no problems, and they are fairly active (which I am guessing may increase the chance of the T noticing them)  If it won't take those, I'll try a few cheaper varietys more local to madagascar.  

And the filter, well.. I hope it doesn't, actually.  If my divider stays in place long enough for Subject A to settle in at home, I'm hoping it won't move much dirt into it.  If it does, it should get caught up in the thin layer of gravel I am putting in there.

Getting out! Well, I had hoped it would be able to manage, but if not, the way I'm putting the removable section of the divider in, it should have ample gripping area.  The filter will be placed just below the water line too, so it can climb out on it if need be.  I'll be watching like a hawk when I first open the gate for her.

Bill


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## conipto

> _Originally posted by MrT _
> *How big is Subject A? *


About 5-6 inches legspan.  

Bill


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## conipto

Holy molt batman!

Came home from work today to find subject A looking like this..

This gives me some time of officially 'not messing with her' to finish up the tank - I'll be posting more of it this evening with luck.

Bill

Reactions: Wow 1


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## Nixy

Congrats on the molt. You have a gorgeus darling there.

About your tank.
The problem with substrat in the water and I was also wandering about how the T can easly get out of the water with it's kill.

You've prolly already thought about this but I was wondering if a tilted ramp would work.
Set onto the divider and roughed on the top for the T to grip getting in and out.
Tilting it down a bit into the water can give the T a ledge to grip and the upper tip can be maybe a half an inch to an inch over the substrat, creating a block that the T can easly get over.

Anyway, before I blather too much.

Heres a simple sketch of it.

Hope this might help.


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## conipto

That's a pretty good idea, although it doesn't really work with the way I have the divider set up...  However, I was thinking about this last night, and this is what I finally settled on, if you get the idea..  I still have to find the right rock.:

Bill


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## Gillian

Bill,
    Try flagstone. I used some in my H. arizonensis tank. If you're very careful and, use a light touch, you can break flagstone both horizontally and, vertically. It may break into several pieces, but perhaps silicone would help.
Peace,
Gillian


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## conipto

Part III the tank divider - 

This was the chore of the process, and one that took a little effort.  I knew I wanted about 2/3's of it fixed in place, and the rest removable, and that was about all.  I devised a pretty simple method of making the removable portion of the divider, and this is what I ended up with:

First, I cut four strips approx 1 inch by 4 inches, which will serve as my brackets.  I also cut the top half of the divider, keeping the width just under the distance between the lips of the lid rest on the top (see further down to see what I mean)







Then, I found some very small and very thin pieces of clear plastic to use as shims on both pieces (so that I can slide the piece in and out of the brackets with ease, but still keep it in place and snug)







I assembled these so that both of my shims were on the same side of the fixed bottom piece, and the bracket pieces were halfways onto the fixed portion.  I clamped them into place and adjusted them so they lined up to my satisfaction.







Next, I fit it into place, and made sure that the removable portion slid easily in and out.







Once satisfied with the placement, I began the very unfun part of siliconing it into place.  The fumes from this aquarium silicon I bought were pretty harsh, too.  I tried to be steady and precise in my siliconing, but the tube was really stiff and difficult to squeeze.  I'd use a caulking gun if I did this over.  I put it on pretty thick, to be sure it wasn't going anywhere.







I left it to dry overnight, with the clamps in place.  







This afternoon, I removed the clamps and tested the strength of the joints out.  They all seem to be very stiff and secure.







Next, I put the lid back on, and gave it a test run.  Everything seems to fit up well.












Now, the tank is complete.  I am waiting one more day for the silicon to cure (per the instructions on the tube) and tommorrow night I will clean everything up, and add the soil and water, to check for leaks and stability.  In a few days, I will add the fish, and measure the humidity and temperature until I am satisfied with it.  The final section of this post will be the newly housed (and recently molted) H. gigas, "Subject A".  As well as a  few unlucky feeder fish, if all goes to plan. 

Bill

Reactions: Like 1


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## Nixy

Oooooo, Nifty doodles.
Looking Great. 

Ya know. I'm Gonna have to try that...


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## Theraphosa

After your project is finish, what kind of fish are you going to use to feed your Gigas?


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## conipto

> _Originally posted by Theraphosa _
> *After your project is finish, what kind of fish are you going to use to feed your Gigas? *


Jury is still out on that one.. alot of people have told me they've fed feeder goldfish to terrestrials (flopping about the substrate) and had no mishaps with them.  However, I hear about chemicals used to keep them alive, that could be potentially bad for T's, so right now I'm basically looking into finding a really reputable source for them.  Why?, do you have any suggestions?

The goal is cheap, active, and hardy.  Hardiness isn't such an issue if they are cheap though.

Bill


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## krystal

wow bill, great set up...i have to say i'm impressed.  

i think it looks great!  as does your h. gigas!  what a difference a moult makes!

about the fish--i've fed my b. boehmei fish twice sucessfully.  both were feeder goldfish from a tank that had hundreds of other goldfish swimming around in it.  and there are chemicals used on the fish (to keep them free of parasites, to prevent dying if another fish is diseased,  "vitamin" drops, etc...) that you have to watch out for.  however, i think it will be hard to find an untreated fish.  perhaps the chance of poisoning lessens if your h. gigas isn't solely (pardon the pun) on fish.


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## Theraphosa

sorry, I don't have any suggestions.  I've never thought fishes could have bad chemicals to Ts.  Well, good luck on your project and take a lot of pictures....


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## Arachnopuppy

About the bad chemicals, some fish stores put in some kind of enzyme to help the fish deal with the stress of being transported from place to place.  I have no idea if this chemical is harmful to tarantulas or not.

Bill, I am sitting here with my mouth wide openned in amazement.  Krystal is right.  You are both sexy and skillful in many ways.


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## Nixy

Stupid question.
Yes I am full of them...

If you put the fish into clean water and let them swim a few days.
Won't that leach out a good many chemicals?
Sit a few gallons out to allow the chlorene to dissipate from the water or buy bottled water without.
Put the fish in a "holding" tank and let them swim away some of the store chemicals for a day or two before introducing them to your gigas.
I'd ask about this method of chemical removal or reduction.
I Know I read about it someplace at sometime.
Stuck in my head and thought I would toss it here.
Anyway.

Time for me to shut up.


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## krystal

nixy's idea of letting the fish "swim it off" is  far better than any other ideas i would've come up with to "remove" fish chemicals.  (puts down duct tape and blow torch)


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## dennis

Now I guess this is a very stupid question ...

But doesn't the enclosure need some kind of ventilation??


Dennis


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## krystal

> _Originally posted by conipto _
> *Oh, one more thing - I'll be maintaining the substrate and fish without the T for a while, and measuring humidity.  I'll be drilling holes in the lid as needed, and will be adding the H. gigas only after I am satisfied with the humidity level.
> 
> Bill *


all in good time, dear dennie.  all in good time.


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## Nixy

> _Originally posted by krystal _
> *(puts down duct tape and blow torch) *


Oh,,, you can use those on fish?
See here I thought those were for foreplay only..............


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## conipto

Nixy - I'm not sure about the enzymes like Lam mentioned, I don't know if they will just 'come off' or if they are in the fishes blood stream.  Still, I've seen those tanks they keep feeder fish in, and you're absolutely right.  It sure couldn't hurt to 'rinse them out' before officially putting them in the tank with the T.  I'll do just that, thanks.

Bill


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## Ultimate Instar

BTW, are you concerned that your H. gigas will be too secretive?  

Karen N.


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## conipto

Well, secretive is ok by me.  That's the nature of them, anyways.  As long as I see a few less fish in the morning one of these days, I'll be ecstatic 

Bill


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## genious_gr

Do you plan to just feed it fish? Cause if you want to give it crickets, they will most probably fall in the water.....
What about cutting another screen to place over the water when feeding it crickets??


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## dennis

> _Originally posted by genious_gr _
> *Do you plan to just feed it fish? Cause if you want to give it crickets, they will most probably fall in the water.....
> What about cutting another screen to place over the water when feeding it crickets?? *


That's an interesting thing!! I haven't thought of that myself, lets hear what Bill has to say about it .

Dennis


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## genious_gr

BTW, I really think this project should be placed in a site. Do you plan to? I've got some free space


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## genious_gr

> _Originally posted by genious_gr _
> *Do you plan to just feed it fish? Cause if you want to give it crickets, they will most probably fall in the water.....
> What about cutting another screen to place over the water when feeding it crickets?? *


Stupid me:8o 
I forgot you placed an entire divider on the tank. I'm sorry for the space my posts have been taking up.
Keep us updated!!!! Great work.!!!


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## conipto

> _Originally posted by genious_gr _
> *Stupid me:8o
> I forgot you placed an entire divider on the tank. I'm sorry for the space my posts have been taking up.
> Keep us updated!!!! Great work.!!! *


  That's part of what the removable divider is for, yes.  However, I still see a possibility of them climbing the corners and jumping over the brackets into the water.  Still working on that (and trying to plug a super-slow leak that I can't find)

As for putting it in a web page, sure, why not.  Seems like it'd be simple enough to do.  I'd rather wait to see if it actually WORKS though 

Bill


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## Valael

So what ever happened with the substrate, gold fish, and/or spider?   I'm impatient!  I must know!


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## krystal

apparently everything worked out according to plan (as if we expected anything less from bill).  he accidently killed off three of his fish due to the temp in the water, but gail gave good "keeping goldfish alive" feedback.  he's got everything together--the fish are swimming, the h. gigas is in its burrow after a moult (which ended in a very nasty 6.5" spider), and i believe there's only a teeny tiny leak, but bill said he'd spit in the water everyday to keep the water level up.  

i think he's just waiting to load his pictures to post 'em.

i'm pretty sure bill said something about his next tarantula set-up project including running water and a barbecue pit.


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## conipto

Yep, Ms. Krystal is correct.  I did plug the leak though, and when I woke up this morning, Subject A was trying to get around the divider.  Hopefully that's a good sign.  I have more picutres on the way.

Bill


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## Valael

Did I miss a second thread that was started about this or something?


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## conipto

Nah, I just never kept fish before, and had one in the watering hole about that.  I'll add that part when I get the other pics uploaded.

Bill


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## conipto

Part IV - Wrapping up.

Well, I finally got everything up and running, my H. gigas is burrowed, and thanks to Gail and others, the fish are alive..for now.  Here's a few pics of everything in place.  After this, only one more pic to go, if I can get it.

Bill

Here's Subject A heading for her predug burrow opposite the tank.


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## conipto

How to let fish adjust.. who knew.


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## conipto

Fish swimming about, and as of now all are still alive.


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## conipto

In the burrow, and happy.


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## conipto

And one last pic of the final project.

I'll be opening the divider tonight, as she's burrowed up pretty good.

Bill

Reactions: Like 1


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## Nixy

That looks perty darned great.
Thanks for sharing that with us.


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## genious_gr

Yea that project is SUPER.
BTW, could you tell me the dimensions of the whole tank?? so I can get an idea of how big it is.. (don't just say it's a 10 gallon tank cause here in Greece we don't use that and I just dont get how big it is....)
Thanks


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## conipto

Sure, It's about 10 inches x 20 inches x 12 inches.  The divider is six inches from the closer wall to it, and goes up 7 inches high on the fixed portion.

Bill


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## Valael

Ever release her?  Any fish poof?


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## That Guy

Thats would be nice to see a pic of it going to get a fish


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## conipto

My fish all died.. I must be a terrible fishkeeper.  Anyhow, I'm gonna try tommorrow night with new water and fish, and remove the divider.

Bill


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## Bob the thief

blehz.. humm I wonder if it was the temps the fish were in :?


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## conipto

CLOSE! but no cigar... she felt the fish touch her, my flash was recharging, and faster than modern electronics can handle, she was in, missed, and out again.

Bill


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## Nixy

Are you giving her other prey items?
Crickets?
Just curious if the fish are gonna be The diet.
It would be neat for her to just dive and eat whenever. 

Get her a little mini raft with a cup holder and an umbrella.

 =D


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## conipto

She only molted about ten days ago, so I wasn't expecting her to be ready to eat yet.  Either she is, or she just doesn't like fish touching her legs 

I'll give her a pinky if there isn't a number of fish less than six in the tank by saturday.

Bill


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## conipto

OK folks, update..  as fish died, it would appear she's been skimming them off the surface.  (I would leave dead ones in for a period of up to two days, just to see if they'd vanish. Gross, but uhh.. it's research, or something.)  I allowed the water level to lower quite a bit, and found that the lower it gets,  the more likely she is to go into it.  She has developed a new tactic, now that her legs can reach the bottom (it's a stretch though).  Now, she'll slowly crawl into the water, and not exactly 'spaz out' like she did before.  She'll almost wade in (still splashing quite a bit, but nothing compared to when she couldn't hit bottom) and when she gets close to the remaining fish (who now has the distinction of being 'Subject B') she'll stop.  Dead still, on the water surface.  If the fish gets close enough, or touches her 'air suit' she'll thrash about, APPEARING (but I'm not positive) to attempt to catch the fish.  (I don't know what an attack looks like underwater, exactly)  She may stop again, and wait for a while, and has sat with book lungs under water for up to 8 minutes that I've seen.  It's always after a period of flailing about/fishing/freaking out that she climbs back out, to dry off.  (Catching her breath?)  She may wait only a few minutes, or may go back to the burrow.  I find that she's most active out there between midnight and 3ish, regardless of room lighting.  

To make a long story short, I'm changing around the tank layout tommorrow.  For one, I've yet to see her succeed in catching live prey (though one live one dissapeared, but all the dead ones seem to vanish overnight - it may have just died and been scavenged)  and two, she's getting too thin for my liking... I don't think the few she's dragged off are filling her.  I'm going to throw the divider back up, and fatten her up a bit on normal prey (she even seems a bit slow nowadays) at the same time, redoing the aquarium portion.  I plan to keep it about 3 inches deep now, seeing that she likes the shallow water better.  (she has about 4 inches vertical descent before the waterline as is now, and though she gets up it every time, it kinda bothers me.)

Attached is a picture of her new tactic in use, if it really is a tactic at all.

More update when she's plumped up a bit.

Bill

Reactions: Like 1


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## Nixy

She might just need more time for her species instict to catch in and catch on. She was raised on " dry land diets" so. It will probably take a little while longer for her to get her barings good in the water.
Maybe make her a set of "steps" with stones? From the water to the top of the divider? Perhaps if she can step in slow an inch at a time she might be more comfortable. Being able to back up a step and get her feet on a solid surface to re evaluate her prey.
If she's going in an even Trying thats a plus.
She might just have to keep plugging at it before she realizes she can swim.

Practice makes perfect. 

Thanks for the update and the pic, and keep us posted!


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## RugbyDave

no-ones asked where the diving board is!!!!



peace, 
dave


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## chau0046

Try minnows used for bait from a fishing store. There cheap hardy and active. I personally would drop the water level another inch or two and slowly move it up as it gets used to fishing. Amazing project. I`m gonna try something the same for my Emps. There known to live beside shallow river and mine are totally submerged from time to time.Especialy when they are hungry. I`m gonna post the results in the scorp forum. Nice job!!!


Mat


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## Vys

Waaoow, this is the kind of project your creative side whispers about after you first hear some giant spids will go after fish 
Really cool!


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## nocturnalpulsem

Bill, I must say, you are god-like in your genious and engineering. I can't operate power tools without destroying something or hurting someone  

I like it. I like it a lot. However, I have to ask, didn't the heat from the friction while you were cutting the very first sheets cause a great deal of trouble? My boss made a lid for the hex tank out of plexiglass and, even though he did a pretty good job, there were little chips near the vent holes, and some slight warping. It was also a little crooked, but I'll admit the scoring tool can be a pain.

N.


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## Arachnopuppy

> _Originally posted by nocturnalpulsem _
> *Bill, I must say, you are god-like in your genious and engineering. I can't operate power tools without destroying something or hurting someone
> 
> I like it. I like it a lot. However, I have to ask, didn't the heat from the friction while you were cutting the very first sheets cause a great deal of trouble? My boss made a lid for the hex tank out of plexiglass and, even though he did a pretty good job, there were little chips near the vent holes, and some slight warping. It was also a little crooked, but I'll admit the scoring tool can be a pain.
> 
> N. *


Bill has both looks and talents.  THE man of everyone's dream.


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## conipto

> _Originally posted by nocturnalpulsem _
> *Bill, I must say, you are god-like in your genious and engineering. I can't operate power tools without destroying something or hurting someone
> 
> I like it. I like it a lot. However, I have to ask, didn't the heat from the friction while you were cutting the very first sheets cause a great deal of trouble? My boss made a lid for the hex tank out of plexiglass and, even though he did a pretty good job, there were little chips near the vent holes, and some slight warping. It was also a little crooked, but I'll admit the scoring tool can be a pain.
> 
> N. *


Wow, someone drug this fella back up to the top eh 

I think it should be called the 'H. crassipes project' given what I hear in the rumor mill, but at any rate, no.. I had no real problems with melting when using the dremel tool.  I quit using a cutoff bit really fast and did the majority of the cutting using medium grit sanding discs.  They fouled up alot slower, and what did melt just flaked right off cleanly when the cut was finished.  I can't imagine how fun a hex shaped lid would be to make with a scoring tool  

On the original topic - Water back in, no fish for now..  She swims every now and then like she used to.  Adult mouse seems to have restored her vigor quite a bit 

Bill


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## nocturnalpulsem

> _Originally posted by conipto _
> *Wow, someone drug this fella back up to the top eh *


Eh...school's been evil. On my way to a different major. :8o 

Anyway, this is all really cool. Are you going to up any plants or anything in there, too?

N.


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## AllenG

hehehe I am very anxious for you to be able to report when you finally get it all squared away...just sitting here today reading this has just about put the name down for my next T....  a T that swims and catches fish...WHO WOULDA THOUGHT!


Great job on the tank, very well thought out, kudos to you!


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## Ultimate Instar

This is such a cool project.  I've got to set up an aquarium like this.  What other species of Ts are candidates for a fishing experiment?

Karen N.


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## Arachnopuppy

As far as I know, the H. gigas is the only one that does it.  Someone correct me if I'm wrong.


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## conipto

> _Originally posted by lam _
> *As far as I know, the H. gigas is the only one that does it.  Someone correct me if I'm wrong. *


I don't know for sure if any actually do it in the wild, but I'm told what I have is a Hysterocrates crassipes. (Which I guess is the pet-trade H. gigas)

Bill


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## Olan

I'm also curious as to how the gigas will get in and out of the water......

-Olan


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## luther

What a fascinating thread.  Thanks so much for posting this.  Did you ever make a web site version?  The subject deserves it.


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## si_sleaf

Wow, I'd forgotten about this. 

What's the latest on the fishin'? I'd love to do something like this but my powertool use ain't good. I will have a go if this one works out ok though, maybe just to see a swimming spider:}


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## MizM

Um... Bill? Couldn't you have just, ummmm, put a large shallow dish in the enclosure with some fish in it? Or is that the blonde method?:?


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## conipto

And that would have been fun how?

Bill


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## si_sleaf

I might have a go at a simpler version of this. Perhaps get a fairly big aquarium and fill with substrate. Then get a medium sized petpal and kind of bury it so that the fish in the petpal can be seen through the side. Just bury it deep enough so that the water is just below ground level and the H.gigas can get in and out. A bit of a "diet H.gigas project" if you like. 

Bill, what's the chance of setting up a webcam so we can have a peak?


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## conipto

Well, when I finish moving this weekend, I'll be setting up the newly plugged tank (found the leak), and giving this another go.  Give me a webcam and I'll plug it in 

Bill


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## nocturnalpulsem

> _Originally posted by conipto _
> *Well, when I finish moving this weekend, I'll be setting up the newly plugged tank (found the leak), and giving this another go.  Give me a webcam and I'll plug it in
> 
> Bill *


I got a cheap crappy one. Gimme shipping money and I'll send it  

N.


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## MizM

> _Originally posted by conipto _
> *And that would have been fun how?
> 
> Bill *


Yeah, guess you're right... it doesn't involve power tools. Ar ar ar ar. I, personally, LOVE my Dremel!!!


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## Valael

I can't help it.  I've been curious.



Anything interesting?  I'm a bit pessemistic, so I'm assuming not since you haven't said anything -- but I figured it'd be worth a shot


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## conipto

Guess I should have updated this..

I took out the girl so that I could do some small modification and repair to the tank, and had her in a temporary enclosure.  One with a little too much ventilation, I think.

Subject A is no more, alas the project is cancelled.

Bill


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## Immortal_sin

oh, bummer..
I now have H gigas, and wanted to model a project after yours!
I still may though.
I might have to have you send me step by step instructions though!
Holley


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## Lyle Beach

I don't know how I came about this thread, but it was a great read.  I would love to see somebody try this again!  

What do you say Bill?  Give it another go?


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## T_DORKUS

Got to agree, real interesting read.  Will H gigas fish as well or is it just the H crassipes?


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## xBurntBytheSunx

wow just when i've seen everything...i'm impressed!


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## Mikey_G.Rosea

Looks like you got it down now pretty much! Great project experience you have too!


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## Deliverme314

I am planning something similar with dolomedes tenebrosis(Did I botch the spelling?)

Fishing spider.


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## sansoucie

Well be sure and post LOTSA pics. This was the neatest thing I'd seen but was sadly never followed up on. Good luck!!


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## _SHIVA_

Well Bill, 
It's a pitty you gived it up...  
Anyway, I've to agree with everybody, it was a very nice try.
As would say Crush, in pixar's Finding nemo: "You so totally rocks!!!"   
Regards


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## conipto

Lyle Beach said:
			
		

> I don't know how I came about this thread, but it was a great read.  I would love to see somebody try this again!
> 
> What do you say Bill?  Give it another go?


Well.. I've been planning to, but I need a new big Hysterocrates sp. female..  and there are unfortunately more important things requiring my uhm.. money.

I found out where I went wrong just as I was removing her, and it was the reason I *DID* move her.  I had a leak in the wall of the divider, and it caused the water level to sink down to about three inches.  The time I noticed this, it was because she was standing IN the water, apparently happy as a clam.  Perhaps the only reason she wasn't so all about it, was that she couldn't touch bottom.  

Anyone up for taking over, since I'm not likely to be buying any T's in the immediate future?

Bill

Edit - I know I posted this before.. but, in case someone might be suffering from skimmeritis - no pun intended..


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## reverendsterlin

why not just sink a small fishbowl that has a filter system down to the substrate level (or just above)? Good idea but I think cheaper if using pre-made materials. A plus is lack of expense in case changes wreck something.
Rev


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## Randolph XX()

well, i think..
1.should use still water set up, cuz flowing water with vibration and bubbles might distract the spider, or strees them
2. i recomond using fish that can breath in the air, such as Betta, might reduce the death rates of the fish
3. maybe can extand the space of the water , and place some drift woods in, connect to the "land" area, i guess they might try to grab on something in case of flowing in the water, they are not good swimmers, arnt they?
4. will the half land half water vivarium with water circulating system which use on amphibians work? i think we should have a well design of vivarium to testify whether fish and other aquatic animals can live for a while, too, righ?
just some of my opinions


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## fyic

Did anything ever come of this ........would like to know what happen

Thanks


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## Juraki

:clap: 

I love it when two year old threads come back. I'll admit I'm curious too if there are any updates, what a cool species! I have one but I'm gonna need more, there are too fun.


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## Gustavo

when i get alittle more experience i might have to try this but would it be better to start with a smal sling so they can start young and they will not have a whole life before they start fishing?

Also i think the simpler setup idea would work better ... but whate about a large aquarium with a smaller one aganst 2 sides?


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## brova golin

I have 30 H gigis (i know maybe not H gigis mess up etc) but at the mo they are only 3cm but when bit bigger i will Defo be doing this experiment buut with shallow water. great thread. my blondi loves fish i puut them in his bowl lol.


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## wburke17

*?*

good reading


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## CedrikG

conipto said:


> I don't know for sure if any actually do it in the wild, but I'm told what I have is a Hysterocrates crassipes. (Which I guess is the pet-trade H. gigas)
> 
> Bill



Hi, 

What you have is an Hysterocrate sp. because its impossible to tell what species it is except under the eye of a taxonomist.

I never heard someone having _Hysterocrate crassipes _in the hobby.

This said this is an interesting project you've made there


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## pinkfoot

Great thread, Bill!

Anyone else wonder what happenened to the T?!:?


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## BakuBak

it died while being in  temporary enclosure


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## ballpython2

Has anyone tried this since bill did?..


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## speedreader

I don't think anybody else tried this, according to my search of the boards.
But I believe I will make an attempt within a year, once I settle at a new residence.


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## Drachenjager

*Gonna try this*

I just aquired an H. gigas and i will have an empty tank i believe will be large enough to try this with. i will be attempting to remotely filter and aerate the water so as not to disturb the surface in the tank so much and see what happens. sometime after the 1st of the month i will start tank construction.


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## Snipes

any more updates on this, anyone else make a successful hybrid tank and see some fish catching?


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## von_z

I am interested in this as well.


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## AubZ

Add me to the list.


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## Tleilaxu

I am not much for "grave robbing" but how is the project going?


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## ZooRex

Well this thread is a bit old, but I thought I'd let everyone know that my silicone is now drying. So excited to up grade my H.gigas to somthing amazing!


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## von_z

Cool, keep us posted.


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## robc

I will be attempting this...I'm using a 20gal for now with a large water area until I get the larger one built. I will be using a 4.5' x 2' tank with a creek and large pond...the creek will be flowing but the pond will be still (imagine a koi pond you might put in your back yard but on a smaller scale). With live plants, drift wood, etc... The female I have is currently 6". I'm hoping to have the larger tank done in the next 2 weeks or so...maybe sooner. I'll give updates and pics...


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## ReMoVeR

interesting thread ;D keep us updated with some pics too =)


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## somethingbig

robc said:


> I will be attempting this...I'm using a 20gal for now with a large water area until I get the larger one built. I will be using a 4.5' x 2' tank with a creek and large pond...the creek will be flowing but the pond will be still (imagine a koi pond you might put in your back yard but on a smaller scale). With live plants, drift wood, etc... The female I have is currently 6". I'm hoping to have the larger tank done in the next 2 weeks or so...maybe sooner. I'll give updates and pics...



when i move out of my dorm that doesn't even allow pets, i plan to follow suit. what an interesting idea...


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## fartkowski

For some reason I thought you might try it Rob 
I'm really looking forward to what you build.


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## robc

fartkowski said:


> For some reason I thought you might try it Rob
> I'm really looking forward to what you build.


It will be done tonight and will be awesome, I am about to post a test tank I did and she was swimming!!!


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## ShellsandScales

Awesome rob!! If you need any fish tips I know alot about the fish end of it. I would most definitely like to try this one myself but I've never been that much into H. gigas. Do we know, now that its not 2003 anymore, if there are any other species that have been noted to either swim or eat fish??? A little note that was touched on earlier in the thread. If the fish have been medicated they could potentially have heavy metals built up in their body. A very common element in fish medicine is copper and that definitely has a cumulative effect in fish tissue. There are many other compounds as well commonly used and I really don't know the potential toxicity to T's but a lot of these are permenant once the fish has been exposed, there is no flushing it out of thier system. You may want to go with some captive bred gold fish or guppies that aren't raised in fisheries. Much better chance that they haven't been exposed to medications or even worse mercury that can be a pollutant that could be present in fish from fisheries.

BTW my P. regalis is absolutly loving her natural setup thanks for the inspiration rob!


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## robc

ShellsandScales said:


> Awesome rob!! If you need any fish tips I know alot about the fish end of it. I would most definitely like to try this one myself but I've never been that much into H. gigas. Do we know, now that its not 2003 anymore, if there are any other species that have been noted to either swim or eat fish??? A little note that was touched on earlier in the thread. If the fish have been medicated they could potentially have heavy metals built up in their body. A very common element in fish medicine is copper and that definitely has a cumulative effect in fish tissue. There are many other compounds as well commonly used and I really don't know the potential toxicity to T's but a lot of these are permenant once the fish has been exposed, there is no flushing it out of thier system. You may want to go with some captive bred gold fish or guppies that aren't raised in fisheries. Much better chance that they haven't been exposed to medications or even worse mercury that can be a pollutant that could be present in fish from fisheries.
> 
> BTW my P. regalis is absolutly loving her natural setup thanks for the inspiration rob!


The enclosure should be completed in an hour or two...I'm in the process of making it now. Thanks for the fish info...I used to breed long-fin Oscars and African Ciclids (sp?). Oh, by the way, this girl was giving me an upside-down, under-water threat pose a little bit ago...wish I'd had the camera handy! She's just flat mean!!


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## dtknow

I checked out the videos and I've seen similar for spiders dropped into water. I'm still skeptical they enter water on their own accord in the wild, and especially of them fishing.


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## robc

dtknow said:


> I checked out the videos and I've seen similar for spiders dropped into water. I'm still skeptical they enter water on their own accord in the wild, and especially of them fishing.


I know my H.Gigas does I watch her, she goes in there looking for prey and swims all over and has even sat on the bottom with her legs up waiting....rob


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## ShellsandScales

But do any other sp. have this type of behavior???


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## Tleilaxu

I know this is a very very old thread but its too awesome to allow to be buried,(Especially with the how toos) anyways have you had anyone who has done this, managed to capture photos of a sucessful "fishing trip?"

I found some videos documenting this as well. (cage setup and the T entering the water)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88tYH36LZok&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WA4xAapX2-U&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ax7TEBC7KBo&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NB2BaGz85xs&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdHjp5E5kbc

Mature male H gigas swimming

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uE4bki09Z2Y&feature=fvwrel

Female fishing: (And getting bothered for the video)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpJsLIxxQoY&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XpMupQiLF0&feature=relmfu


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## Swoop

Have there been any further attempts since this thread was last exhumed 5 years ago?

Since the T seemed to struggle catching live fish in the water, maybe some decent sized feeder shrimp would be more appropriate?  Probably slower and more cricket-like.  Might even come on the edge of the substrate so the T can hunt them in or out of the water.


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## Haavard

I am new to T keeping, but I have extensive experience in fish keeping/breeding/aquascaping etc. With this in mind I ordered and received 8 juvenile H. gigas as my first Ts. They all arrived safely a few days ago. My plan is to keep them communally in increasingly larger containers as they grow, and finally let them reside in a large planted terrarium with a fish stocked pond and see what happens. Since I love plants I chose a wet species of T. 

Here are my thoughts on H.gigas hunting fish.... Traversing, navigating or hiding under water does of course not make it a fishing species. almost all animals can handle themselves in water to a varying degree. In the same manner a lot of fish can handle themselves on land for much of the same reasons. I must add that seeing how the H. gigas handles itself under water is rather impressive, and makes you wonder
The only thing that could convince me is a series of films showing the H. gigas purposefully hunting and catching fish. Something to consider is what kind of fish the H. gigas might predate on and the actual mechanics involved. Fish species behavior, shape and movements vary wildly, and will be of great importance.

Consider this... In tropical and temperate environments all over the world there are bodies of water that occasionally dry out to varying degrees. There are many species of fish that cope with this in various ways. If you walk down a jungle path in an African rain forest, you might see killi fish wiggling around on the ground trying to find a new puddle. These fish will maybe cross the paths of ground dwelling tarantulas. My guess is that Ts sometimes eat these fish. This situation could hardly be called fishing, but maybe the tarantula walks down to the puddle as it dries out, to catch fish? Would that be fishing? A few years ago a customer bought a single platy from the pet store where I work. He told me all the shops in the area where out of crickets. He came back several times and bought platys for his T. Of course I told him that I was skeptical about the nutritional composition of this diet. If what the customer reported was accurate, the tarantula (he didn't know the species of T) ate fish.

Anyways... My H. gigas need to grow. I find the species fascinating mostly because I imagine how they can make a network of burrows among the roots of beautiful plants with the same moisture requirements as the Ts.

Reactions: Like 1


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## miss moxie

You're right! Keeping fish is TOTALLY like keeping tarantulas! I remember the first time my oscar fish ran out of the water and up the wall in the blink of an eye! I knew then that I was prepared for one of the crankiest tarantulas in the hobby, went out and bought ten the next day.


 Good luck. The only true communal species is M. balfouri. Everything else just tolerates one another right up until it doesn't.


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## Swoop

miss moxie said:


> You're right! Keeping fish is TOTALLY like keeping tarantulas! I remember the first time my oscar fish ran out of the water and up the wall in the blink of an eye! I knew then that I was prepared for one of the crankiest tarantulas in the hobby, went out and bought ten the next day.


Every time you get sassy with a newb I cower a little bit.  



As for the 8 Hysterocrates sp. (what I've read is dated but a few years ago is seems several in the same genus were sold as H. gigas), good luck, you are a braver newb than I am!  As moxie pointed out, tarantula communes are generally a no-no.  But I think a large, partitioned container designed so the fish can move around freely but the tarantulas can't would be_ theoretically_ simple to design, safe for the T's, and pretty frickin' cool to boot.  Toughest part would probably be a lid cuz you'll want one that allows you to access T's or fish without letting all the rest dash for freedom.


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## miss moxie

Swoop said:


> Every time you get sassy with a newb I cower a little bit.
> 
> 
> 
> As for the 8 Hysterocrates sp. (what I've read is dated but a few years ago is seems several in the same genus were sold as H. gigas), good luck, you are a braver newb than I am!  As moxie pointed out, tarantula communes are generally a no-no.  But I think a large, partitioned container designed so the fish can move around freely but the tarantulas can't would be_ theoretically_ simple to design, safe for the T's, and pretty frickin' cool to boot.  Toughest part would probably be a lid cuz you'll want one that allows you to access T's or fish without letting all the rest dash for freedom.


Partitioned enclosures, unfortunately, usually result in the death of one or more tarantula. We've seen a few examples of that already this year.

Ugh I don't mean to get sassy but there is just so much to get frustrated over in that post:

New hobbyist, equates experience with other animals as experience that has prepared them for advanced tarantulas, bought not just one advanced OW but SEVERAL-- and is gonna throw them all together, when the only semi-workable H. gigas communals are comprised of a mother and her slings.

Edit: Here, to be more helpful than sassy I found this guideline for attempting H. gigas communals, from this post.



			
				EDED said:
			
		

> dont start with adults
> 
> dont start with babies that have been separated with their mom for too long
> 
> start with the fresh hatch out babies from the start,,,keep them together,
> 
> once you separate for a while then recombine they start eating eachother fast.
> 
> one species i took the sac away when they were eggs w legs, hatched them to 2 nd instar gave them back to their mom and they aate together and happy
> 
> this one species or individual started eating 1/4'' babies like a little treat, one by one, that was so messed up,,,then i would threw several at once and she ate all of them ahhaha, so those babies are motherless but going strong together in a separate tank.
> 
> the longest ive had them, they were close to 2.5'' leg span and there were lke 25 of them before
> 
> this time i will try to do better...but i dont have much room once they get bigger.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Haavard

Branching out is never easy at first. I am here for advice and will swallow a little sassiness attached. No worries;-)
So... H. gigas are not truly communal. That changes my plans for them regarding housing. I don't intend to go full hungergames with my Ts.


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## miss moxie

Haavard said:


> Branching out is never easy at first. I am here for advice and will swallow a little sassiness attached. No worries;-)
> So... H. gigas are not truly communal. That changes my plans for them regarding housing. I don't intend to go full hungergames with my Ts.


Well that's very sensible and I commend you for being reasonable. 

If you'd come for advice a little sooner, we could have also let you know H. gigas are a really bad choice for a first tarantula given their defensiveness, speed, and the potency of their venom. Now you've got eight of them you have to house separately, which isn't the most ideal situation because these Ts get -very- big and you're going to need a _lot_ of room to house 8 adults. You can always sell some off but packing them up for shipping can be hard.


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## Swoop

miss moxie said:


> Edit: Here, to be more helpful than sassy I found this guideline for attempting H. gigas communals, from this post.


You're a peach 

@ Harvaad, from the thread moxie linked it seems like they can be communal but you've got to start with them practically (perhaps literally) from birth.  Would be a cool project but it would take a couple years(?) before you could get a commune of T's big enough to prey on feeder fish


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## miss moxie

Swoop said:


> You're a peach
> 
> @ Harvaad, from the thread moxie linked it seems like they can be communal but you've got to start with them practically (perhaps literally) from birth.  Would be a cool project but it would take a couple years(?) before you could get a commune of T's big enough to prey on feeder fish


Yeah an H. gigas communal attempt is best done if you breed them yourself or know someone nearby that breeds them. They need to be kept together the -entire- time. The only species that is genuinely communal is M. balfouri. You could probably get 5 balfouri from 5 different sacs, house them together and they'd be fine. Amazing species, so unique.


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## Haavard

I will get some large deli style containers and separate them immediately. Thanks both of you


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## miss moxie

Haavard said:


> I will get some large deli style containers and separate them immediately. Thanks both of you


Yep. Just glad we could help before you ended up with one very fat, very happy spider.


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## jaycied

This thread is amazing. I'm planning on trying this in a couple years. I currently don't own any H gigas, so I'd want to get some slings in the next year or so and grow them because I don't want to start with an adult female.


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## kevinlowl

miss moxie said:


> Well that's very sensible and I commend you for being reasonable.
> 
> If you'd come for advice a little sooner, we could have also let you know H. gigas are a really bad choice for a first tarantula given their defensiveness, speed, and the potency of their venom. Now you've got eight of them you have to house separately, which isn't the most ideal situation because these Ts get -very- big and you're going to need a _lot_ of room to house 8 adults. You can always sell some off but packing them up for shipping can be hard.


Is H. gigas a defensive, fast species? Apparently it's a burrower as well but mine sits on top and chill even when i open the lid. I love my little guy.

Reactions: Clarification Please 1


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## miss moxie

kevinlowl said:


> Is H. gigas a defensive, fast species? Apparently it's a burrower as well but mine sits on top and chill even when i open the lid. I love my little guy.


You acquired an old world tarantula without doing enough research to discover their temperament? Unwise.


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## jaycied

kevinlowl said:


> Is H. gigas a defensive, fast species? Apparently it's a burrower as well but mine sits on top and chill even when i open the lid. I love my little guy.


All old worlds are defensive and fast. Keep in mind they can change personalities after molts. It might be chill now, but it definitely won't be forever

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Walker253

I bought an H gigas communal, 5 of them ranging from 2-3". They were fine and well fed. I had a vacation coming up where I was going to be gone a little over 3 weeks. I believe the "well fed" is key to a happy communal. It was break it up or sell the communal. I sold them to a friend for cheap, who is still keeping them communally.
I'm not saying it works every time, but it can work.


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## kevinlowl

miss moxie said:


> You acquired an old world tarantula without doing enough research to discover their temperament? Unwise.


yes


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## miss moxie

kevinlowl said:


> yes


I dunno why you're rolling your eyes at me. Literally no one around here is going to tell you it's a good idea to buy a tarantula you did no research on. And if you didn't read about their temperament, then you didn't do research even if you did read they "apparently" like to burrow.

I'm just being bluntly honest. Take it however you want to.

Reactions: Agree 2


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