# Flameleg Flame Leg Millipede Trigoniulus macropygus Philippines Negros Island Pede Central



## SDCPs

I have this species and they are:

1) Sometimes confused with centipedes by the layman "mt. manabo_centipede along the trail" because this species is very fast in good temperatures, very nimble, and very colorful. It certainly has an aggressive look.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/40037595@N00/93494292/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/32291554@N08/3120171516/in/pool-405546@N25/

2) Defensive, they will produce defensive excretions but the excretions are less potent than the ladybug smell. One of mine looked like the back legs were not functioning, but it was wiping its excretions from its bottom to my hand. From what I can tell, they don't even stain, but certain individuals are prone to releasing it.

3) Common on "several Philippine islands, most notably Negros island". They are supposed to breed well in captivity as long as plenty of forest matter is provided. They almost ignore vegetables and fruits in my care, preferring to feed on rotting wood and leaves. They need humidity above 90% and temps around 24 C, or 75 F being ideal.
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?169653-Negros-millipede&highlight=flameleg
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/sho...-Pedes-ID-pls.&highlight=philippine+millipede

4) Do carry natural mites, but the mites easily fall off.
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/sho...-my-FireLeg-Millipede..&highlight=Trigoniulus

5) have a very glossy body which reaches 14cm or 5-6 inches.





6) Takes over a week to molt. About 5-6 to actually shed the old skin, and then 3-5 to get moving again.




7) The gonopods in the male are hidden, like in this photo (not mine)







8) The red striped version can be purchased through Ken the Bug Guy: http://www.kenthebugguy.com/pet-mil...g-millipede-sub-adult-awesome-millipedes.html
Black body version (brilliant legs according to two accounts http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/sho.....Find...this...millipede!&highlight=flameleg) at Bugs in Cyberspace: http://shop.bugsincyberspace.com/Flameleg-Millipede-Trigoniulus-macropygus-bic509.htm
These must be different species or something. I would assume that BIG's millipede breeds more easily but I have nothing with which to back this up.

I will update this post when I find out more. If you have any information or pictures to add, please post.


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## Elytra and Antenna

8)They're both the same stock. The red stripes are found in older specimens and are more or less notable according to the lighting and flash of the camera. Look a little closer at the BIC photo and you'll see the bands are quite obvious in the bottom specimen.


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## SDCPs

Elytra and Antenna said:


> 8)They're both the same stock. The red stripes are found in older specimens and are more or less notable according to the lighting and flash of the camera. Look a little closer at the BIC photo and you'll see the bands are quite obvious in the bottom specimen.


You are mistaken. Please see quotes below:



xirxes said:


> dont think so, i got one of those from Peter at BICS and definitely a black pede... may be a color variant, or a very similar species though! The legs on the ones at BICS are very bright, but the body is definitely black.
> 
> Check out the coloration on the body of the one in the pic! Just outstanding!





pouchedrat said:


> Definitely not flamelegs (I have some) as they're solid (editing:  ok not SOLID, but nowhere near extent of color of the above picture) black with the colorful legs.


As obvious in the picture, flash was used and the two pedes had different coloration, one with more mahogany than the other. The red stripped variety has stunning red bands with such lighting, and when curled like that, the white of the flesh (I assume) shows, so you have a black, red, white pede. Those pedes also look chunkier than the meaner looking variety I have.

In conclusion, they are not the same. Take if from someone who has one of the variants and has looked extensively at the photo of the other. Maybe some day I'll get the other one and compare them side by side.


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## MrCrackerpants

I have some from bugsincyberspace and they are doing great. I got them as babies and they are about to reproduce.

Reactions: Like 1


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## zonbonzovi

SDCP, "Kodak taxonomy" is quite unreliable & millipedes can look quite different at different development stages.  Determining species of myriapod via color can be very confusing and is not recommended.  

Still, thanks for the photos...very beautiful animals.  I am very unlucky when it comes to seeing my myriapods molt so I always appreciate a good pic.


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## Elytra and Antenna

SDCPs said:


> You are mistaken. Please see quotes below:


 They're the same bloodline, same stock.


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## SDCPs

zonbonzovi said:


> SDCP, "Kodak taxonomy" is quite unreliable & millipedes can look quite different at different development stages.  Determining species of myriapod via color can be very confusing and is not recommended.
> 
> Still, thanks for the photos...very beautiful animals.  I am very unlucky when it comes to seeing my myriapods molt so I always appreciate a good pic.


I have 1 photograph of the "other" specimen, and 2 commentaries from owners of them to compare to mine and the redder ones. I've researched this extensively and posted all the links. Look at them...I don't see how you can argue with that.

They might be the same species, like Florida ebony vs. ivory. This is not the issue. The point is for hobbyists, do you wan a blacker or redder color variant? I think there are even brighter reds than Ken's stock! Mine look blackish until lit up with flashlight or flash. My pedes are under normal light in the photos (molting one does not count for true color you know) but under LED or flash they have MUCH more brilliant red rings than do the pedes in Peter's (Bugs in Cyberspace) FLASH photo.

I am not determining species by photo.* I am saying the pedes being offered by the respective vendors are different if only slightly.*

Here is a photo of what might be more like Peter's specimens, looks like without flash:







Here is one of the reddest ones I've seen, looks like without flash or with a similar degree of lighting as the first:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/32291554@N08/3120171516/in/pool-405546@N25/

I see a difference. A color variation I suppose. So from Peter you get blacker, from Ken you get redder. That's all I'm saying. BUT YES, THE TESTIMONY OF THOSE WHO OWN PETER'S PEDES SAY MORE THAN THE PHOTOS. Read them.



Elytra and Antenna said:


> They're the same bloodline, same stock.


How do you know that? Did you provide the pedes to both suppliers


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## SDCPs

MrCrackerpants said:


> I have some from bugsincyberspace and they are doing great. I got them as babies and they are about to reproduce.


Is there anyway you could provide pictures of your pedes? Maybe we could get some more information regarding the color variants and who is selling which one (both might have gone through either vendors) from the valuable information you have to offer!

The more info the better. I'm sorry my reply was heated E&A, Z, but it looked as if you did not check out the "evidence" I used to back up my claim, and contradicting my conclusion without offering any sort of evidence to the contrary save assertions made me a little unhappy. But I admit I was in the wrong...we're just talking about a silly millipede.

Thanks


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## Bugs In Cyberspace

I would have attributed apparent color differences to ages of the specimens, lighting and camera flash, however E&A is really the authority on the captive production of this species in the US.

A simple and interesting conclusion to this discussion could be had by simply asking Ken where he got his stock. I suspect his source probably traces back to the same captive bred US bloodline as the ones sold through my site, since nobody imports millipedes anymore.

I like the photos and discussion and would personally like to learn whether there are two color forms floating around the hobby. I'll also add that this is my personal favorite species in the millipede hobby for beauty and ease of reproduction, as well as accessibility.

E&A took the picture on my site ;-)

Reactions: Like 1


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## SDCPs

I doubt the conclusion to the whole matter would be asking Ken where he got his stock, but it seems there are color variants whether from genes (as the common American pedes or the Thai rainbow pedes...or even the florida ivory/ebony pedes) or age/conditions. I have a feeling that genetics could play a major role though.

Here is a little variation amongst predominantly black pedes:







But please, E & A, post some more pics, tell me more...you breed these? Where do you send them? How do you breed them? How many babies do they have? How big do the pedes get? How long to maturity?

I already saw mine mating, doesn't necessarily mean eggs are on the way, but it's a good sign.

---------- Post added 02-25-2012 at 10:15 PM ----------

But look at the pic and the link in post 7. One pede has thin mohagany bands. The other has thick red bands. Maybe there are thin/thick banded varieties


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## SDCPs

Ken doesn't know for sure where they originated: 





> I actually don't know the original source as I traded them with a hobbyist that got them from a guy that captive bred them....

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Camden

i might be just getting confused or not reading it right...but i'm not sure how one could confuse this with a centipede. i mean i've seen people who have never seen a millipede or centipede call one the other, but if you've seen the two, you can tell that they are really obviously two different inverts. it's kinda like looking at a cockroach and saying "Hey! A crab!"


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## SDCPs

Apparently it happened: ::

http://www.flickr.com/photos/40037595@N00/93494292/in/photostream/


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## ScarecrowGirl

SDCPs said:


> Apparently it happened: ::
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/40037595@N00/93494292/in/photostream/


I should take a picture of the pesticide can at work that has a picture of a centipede labeled as a millipede...

I'm just going to put my .02 in here. Say flame-leg  all hail from the same stock as stated above, but over time say these stocks have been separated spread out and bred, maybe different color varieties are developing from the separated stock one color trait being stronger in one, weaker in the other. In a few hundred years say the stocks have been kept separate and bred for so long, they could all probably count as different species. Like the squirrels on either side of the grand canyon, at one point they were the same species but now they count as 2 different species.

I dont know really much about these little guy honestly but I do want to get a few eventually, they are very attractive and I'm always game for new additions to my personal zoo.


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## MrCrackerpants

SDCPs said:


> Is there anyway you could provide pictures of your pedes? Maybe we could get some more information regarding the color variants and who is selling which one (both might have gone through either vendors) from the valuable information you have to offer!
> 
> The more info the better. I'm sorry my reply was heated E&A, Z, but it looked as if you did not check out the "evidence" I used to back up my claim, and contradicting my conclusion without offering any sort of evidence to the contrary save assertions made me a little unhappy. But I admit I was in the wrong...we're just talking about a silly millipede.
> 
> Thanks


I can take some pictures and post them when I get some time. What specifically are you trying to find out?


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## SDCPs

ScarecrowGirl said:


> I should take a picture of the pesticide can at work that has a picture of a centipede labeled as a millipede...
> 
> I'm just going to put my .02 in here. Say flame-leg  all hail from the same stock as stated above, but over time say these stocks have been separated spread out and bred, maybe different color varieties are developing from the separated stock one color trait being stronger in one, weaker in the other. In a few hundred years say the stocks have been kept separate and bred for so long, they could all probably count as different species. Like the squirrels on either side of the grand canyon, at one point they were the same species but now they count as 2 different species.
> 
> I dont know really much about these little guy honestly but I do want to get a few eventually, they are very attractive and I'm always game for new additions to my personal zoo.


EDIT: Yes, please post a picture of that, LOL! Although it is a pesticide company, I wouldn't chastise the designer of the can because I couldn't tell a poodle from a....well, maybe I could pick out a poodle. Let's just say I would have no idea what some of those common European dog breeds were, and some people probably value knowing dog breeds more than the difference between a centipede and a millipede :shrug:

As you can see from post #7, that "black" millipede was photographed "in situ" or in natural environment. The first two links in post one were also taken in the natural environment. Basically this kind of millipede seems to have two principle color forms. There are more photos of black pedes, and more of red also, all from wild caught individuals. I've posted all the links so go check it out 

I think the evidence favors a "seperate color form" interpretation more than a "color form shift in culture" interpretation. But you are entitled to your very own view 



MrCrackerpants said:


> I can take some pictures and post them when I get some time. What specifically are you trying to find out?


We're basically trying to see if your pedes (which you got from Peter you said) are almost totally black or if they have red rings. Could you take a few, one without flash, one with maybe? We (IDK maybe its just me ) just want to see the general color.

Thank you so much


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## MrCrackerpants

SDCPs said:


> EDIT: Yes, please post a picture of that, LOL! Although it is a pesticide company, I wouldn't chastise the designer of the can because I couldn't tell a poodle from a....well, maybe I could pick out a poodle. Let's just say I would have no idea what some of those common European dog breeds were, and some people probably value knowing dog breeds more than the difference between a centipede and a millipede :shrug:
> 
> As you can see from post #7, that "black" millipede was photographed "in situ" or in natural environment. The first two links in post one were also taken in the natural environment. Basically this kind of millipede seems to have two principle color forms. There are more photos of black pedes, and more of red also, all from wild caught individuals. I've posted all the links so go check it out
> 
> I think the evidence favors a "seperate color form" interpretation more than a "color form shift in culture" interpretation. But you are entitled to your very own view
> 
> 
> 
> We're basically trying to see if your pedes (which you got from Peter you said) are almost totally black or if they have red rings. Could you take a few, one without flash, one with maybe? We (IDK maybe its just me ) just want to see the general color.
> 
> Thank you so much


I bought mine from Peter but some of the millipedes I bought from Peter came from E&A and not Peter directly. I am not sure which ones came from Peter or Orin. Maybe Peter remembers. I will look and see if they have red rings. It will take awhile to get pictures as I am swamped with work. On a side note, when I turn the lights off they glow bright neon red. Do yours do this?


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## SDCPs

MrCrackerpants said:


> When I turn the lights off they glow bright neon red. Do yours do this?


 LOL! If that was true I would have heard about it from someone else by now.

It seems Peter sells pedes bred by E and A, so it doesn't really matter, as E and A said, they're "from the same bloodline!"


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## MrCrackerpants

SDCPs said:


> LOL! If that was true I would have heard about it from someone else by now.
> 
> It seems Peter sells pedes bred by E and A, so it doesn't really matter, as E and A said, they're "from the same bloodline!"


:  ) Should I still check?


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## SDCPs

Yeah! We (I) need some evidence to either support or refute our (my) hypothesis


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## ScarecrowGirl

> when I turn the lights off they glow bright neon red.



Don't for get a picture of them glowing as well please!!!


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## MrCrackerpants

I just checked. Mine have thick black rings with small bright red rings.

---------- Post added 03-01-2012 at 02:42 PM ----------




SDCPs said:


> We're basically trying to see if your pedes (which you got from Peter you said) are almost totally black or if they have red rings. Could you take a few, one without flash, one with maybe? We (IDK maybe its just me ) just want to see the general color.


I just checked. Mine have thick black rings with small bright red rings. 

Also, they are still glowing but this may have more to do with my proximity to White Sands Missile Base than their genes.  ; )


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## ScarecrowGirl

> Also, they are still glowing but this may have more to do with my proximity to White Sands Missile Base than their genes.


So, are you saying they're radioactive? lol


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## MrCrackerpants

ScarecrowGirl said:


> So, are you saying they're radioactive? lol


It would appear.


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## SDCPs

Photos please, if you get a chance!


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## MrCrackerpants

SDCPs said:


> Photos please, if you get a chance!


That might be awhile. What are you looking for? :  )


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## Bugs In Cyberspace

I'm reasonably sure that all "dealer stock" in the US hails, at some point a few generations back or less, from a single breeder. Certain subjects are less than comfortable for certain subjects to discuss, objectively.

If anybody has recently imported new stock or different stock, they are unlikely to chime in. I do not import since 9/11/2001. I don't even know anybody who imports anymore, except a small handful of arachnid/reptile importers who don't bring in millipedes.

Are both color forms, represented in the photos you've posted, fully grown 4.5(?) to 5.5 inch specimens? Your theories are compelling and well-argued, but I'd like to see a ruler next to the specimens in each of your photos. Since you did not take all the photos, I assume this is a difficult request. My issue is the same as what some others are suggesting. Your photos of black ones look like smaller individuals, while your photos of redder ones look like older/larger individuals. Can the simplest explanation be the correct one?

I am prepared to be convinced and to learn something new about my favorite species in the hobby!

Reactions: Like 1


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## SDCPs

While I believe there is genetic variation that causes differing appearance of this species in the wild, the millipedes in culture may be as you say, from predominantly one source. However, I believe this gentleman imported them rather recently:

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/sho...-from-the-Philippines!&highlight=acladocricus

Here is his picture:


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## MrCrackerpants

SDCPs said:


> While I believe there is genetic variation that causes differing appearance of this species in the wild, the millipedes in culture may be as you say, from predominantly one source. However, I believe this gentleman imported them rather recently:
> 
> http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/sho...-from-the-Philippines!&highlight=acladocricus
> 
> Here is his picture:


Mine are not this big yet. The red on mine is much thinner and the black  is much thicker.

Reactions: Like 1


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## SDCPs

MrCrackerpants said:


> Mine are not this big yet. The red on mine is much thinner and the black  is much thicker.


Although we cannot quite tell for sure what they'll look like when mature right now, your input supports my hypothesis! I was ready to ditch it if you said anything to the contrary.

The pede in the photo you are referring to looks very much like mine.

Thanks for the info; post pics when you have time


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## Elytra and Antenna

His are immatures, they're not the same color as adults.


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## MrCrackerpants

Elytra and Antenna said:


> His are immatures, they're not the same color as adults.


Orin, 

Yes, they are immature. They are a little over 3 inches long. Will they look like the picture posted when they are adults? I have heard this species can get 5 inches long max. Is this correct? I also have some black pink legs I bought from Peter and they are getting big quick. They are also VERY shiny. 

Thanks.


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## SDCPs

Elytra and Antenna said:


> His are immatures, they're not the same color as adults.


Could you maybe post a few pictures of some of your specimens then?


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## Elytra and Antenna

MrCrackerpants said:


> Orin,
> 
> Yes, they are immature. They are a little over 3 inches long. Will they look like the picture posted when they are adults? I have heard this species can get 5 inches long max. Is this correct? I also have some black pink legs I bought from Peter and they are getting big quick. They are also VERY shiny.
> 
> Thanks.


 The various pictures of US specimes look different primarily due to lighting and camera settings though pictures that represent wild animals may be different. Yours should be adults in six months though your giant black pinklegs may take another three years. 5 and 8+ are max sizes for females of your respective pedes.


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## MrCrackerpants

Elytra and Antenna said:


> The various pictures of US specimes look different primarily due to lighting and camera settings though pictures that represent wild animals may be different. Yours should be adults in six months though your giant black pinklegs may take another three years. 5 and 8+ are max sizes for females of your respective pedes.


Thanks. THANKS!! THANKS!!!!


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## SDCPs

Elytra and Antenna said:


> The various pictures of US specimes look different primarily due to lighting and camera settings though pictures that represent wild animals may be different. Yours should be adults in six months though your giant black pinklegs may take another three years. 5 and 8+ are max sizes for females of your respective pedes.


But I have noticed a difference in the width of the red and black rings on different millipedes, and that is not dependent on camera settings.


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## zonbonzovi

I have AGBs that have varying segment widths between specimens but that is dependent on how far away from last molt they are.  Also remember that each segment's relation to the next is dependent on the animal's position.  Then there's individual variation...oy vey!


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## SDCPs

zonbonzovi said:


> I have AGBs that have varying segment widths between specimens but that is dependent on how far away from last molt they are.  Also remember that each segment's relation to the next is dependent on the animal's position.  Then there's individual variation...oy vey!


I definitely see your point. But this is the kind of difference I'm speaking of. Maybe the black one is smaller, IDK:













And my "thick banded" picture isn't even the best example. It does show two pedes though.


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## MrCrackerpants

SDCPs said:


> I definitely see your point. But this is the kind of difference I'm speaking of. Maybe the black one is smaller, IDK:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And my "thick banded" picture isn't even the best example. It does show two pedes though.


SDCPs. I do not know if this helps but I looked in this morning and I have a few very young (very small: 2 inchers) ones that are completion black. There is no red bands. The others that are bigger (3-3.5 inches) have very small red bands and very large black bands. The legs and antenna on all of mine are the same but band width varies. Maybe (as you suggest) band width (black and red) varies based on age. I do not have any with wide red bands like the top picture. Mine are all immature.


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## SDCPs

That does help! Now we just need to know what your pedes look like when they get bigger! Start taking pics, man...you can share a progression shot library in a few months and contribute much to the general knowledge of these pedes.


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## Bugs In Cyberspace

I just took the following three photos of the same specimen under slightly different lighting conditions, next to a ruler, some with flash, some without. As you can see this specimen is about 3 inches in length and represents that turning point when they start to color up. However, the same camera taking photos of the same millipede can still produce drastically different results. Keep in mind this species is reported to reach 5.5 inches at its largest. 

Again, it is the very same millipede in all three photos. I did not alter the images in any way but to resize them.

For sake of the public record these three images could appropriately be labeled as "BIC's" flameleg stock at 3 inches. They will color and gloss up as they grow. Mr. Crackerpants showed what 4 inch specimens of this stock look like. And Ken's are no doubt a molt beyond Mr. Crackerpants' (or about the same size and taken under different lighting with a different camera, etc.). Lastly, the blackest ones in this thread are younger and subject to the particulars of camera/photographer.

No Flash




Flash




Video Mode on digital camera


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## SDCPs

Bugs In Cyberspace said:


> I just took the following three photos of the same specimen under slightly different lighting conditions, next to a ruler, some with flash, some without. As you can see this specimen is about 3 inches in length and represents that turning point when they start to color up. However, the same camera taking photos of the same millipede can still produce drastically different results. Keep in mind this species is reported to reach 5.5 inches at its largest.
> 
> Again, it is the very same millipede in all three photos. I did not alter the images in any way but to resize them.
> 
> For sake of the public record these three images could appropriately be labeled as "BIC's" flameleg stock at 3 inches. They will color and gloss up as they grow. Mr. Crackerpants showed what 4 inch specimens of this stock look like. And Ken's are no doubt a molt beyond Mr. Crackerpants' (or about the same size and taken under different lighting with a different camera, etc.). Lastly, the blackest ones in this thread are younger and subject to the particulars of camera/photographer.
> 
> No Flash
> View attachment 100864
> 
> 
> 
> Flash
> View attachment 100866
> 
> 
> 
> Video Mode on digital camera
> View attachment 100865


Peter,

You've definitely demonstrated how lighting can affect color. I find the most spectacular color when I shine my LED maglite on them. Then they're a sight to see! I haven't tried a broad range of lighting, but that works well enough. I love it. If only they were that pretty without the extra light.

However, I posted the pic of the...well, I REposted the pic of the 4" pede. I don't believe MrCrackerpants actually posted a picture. But it's true, the larger ones are more colorful. My 5" female is sure a sight. Do the males stay smaller? Anyway, the point of that picture is that those millipedes were *imported recently.* I included the link to the original thread.

Do you folks with the baby millipedes use heat pads at all? Or do you just keep your tanks in the low 70s. My flamelegs (well, at least I don't see anything) haven't had babies yet but they're mating quite a bit...and just started tunneling in the substrate. They're finally actually eating it. They don't care for veggies at all, but oak leaves and wood (most of my substrate) they're really going after. They used to only eat the decaying logs I placed on the surface. I don't know what changed. I think my biggest female is really thick.

When these pedes are large, they sure are beautiful. I see why you love 'em, Peter!!!


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## MrCrackerpants

SDCPs said:


> Do you folks with the baby millipedes use heat pads at all? Or do you just keep your tanks in the low 70s. My flamelegs (well, at least I don't see anything) haven't had babies yet but they're mating quite a bit...and just started tunneling in the substrate. They're finally actually eating it. They don't care for veggies at all, but oak leaves and wood (most of my substrate) they're really going after. They used to only eat the decaying logs I placed on the surface. I don't know what changed. I think my biggest female is really thick. When these pedes are large, they sure are beautiful. I see why you love 'em, Peter!!!


 I do not use a heat source. They are 70 F in the winter and 76 F in the summer. Mine like the food yours like but I also feed them dog food. I looked yesterday and the 5 babies I got from Peter are all about 4 inches long.


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## SDCPs

MrCrackerpants said:


> I do not use a heat source. They are 70 F in the winter and 76 F in the summer. Mine like the food yours like but I also feed them dog food. I looked yesterday and the 5 babies I got from Peter are all about 4 inches long.


How big did they start off, and how long since you purchased them?

---------- Post added 05-27-2012 at 10:38 PM ----------

I have a few pics to share. Here is a pede with a molting deformity:







Here is a male pede that has an anus with a fungus infection I've been trying to treat (honestly, I'm not sure when to stop)







Treatment with Rite-aid Jock Itch...don't use it. 








These pictures support the 1 color-form, different colors at different times hypothesis I believe 

EDIT: THEY'RE NOT SHOWING UP. PLEASE SEE THE IMAGES I'VE UPLOADED., AVAILABLE UNDER MY FORUM NAME.


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## MrCrackerpants

SDCPs said:


> How big did they start off, and how long since you purchased them?
> 
> ---------- Post added 05-27-2012 at 10:38 PM ----------
> 
> I have a few pics to share. Here is a pede with a molting deformity:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a male pede that has an anus with a fungus infection I've been trying to treat (honestly, I'm not sure when to stop)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Treatment with Rite-aid Jock Itch...don't use it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These pictures support the 1 color-form, different colors at different times hypothesis I believe
> 
> EDIT: THEY'RE NOT SHOWING UP. PLEASE SEE THE IMAGES I'VE UPLOADED., AVAILABLE UNDER MY FORUM NAME.


I believe I got them last fall and they were 2 inches or so. I could be wrong on the dates and the size. I will say that they have grown very fast. Faster than any of the other 5 species I currently have. They are very cool millipedes. I hope they reproduce.


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## SDCPs

I've had breeding success!

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?234341-Flameleg-Breeding-Success!


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## SDCPs

Quite interesting. At 6 months old young are between 1" and 1.75" and are already developing adult leg coloration:


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## SDCPs

I still cannot get over the conviction that there are slightly different color morphs of this species, mainly in regard to the prominence of the red rings. I remember that one quote, "It's definitely a black pede," and was just looking at Swift's stock and their description. 

Description: 





> Beautiful Philippne species that is shiney black to maroon as adults with two toned legs that are bright yellow and orange. A fast growing and moving millipede, reaching 6" - 7" as adults!! Very cool millipede!!


Notice how thin the red rings are? I'm almost at the point where I don't care what people say. I have enough evidence to make my own conclusions. I see photos of pedes with thicker red rings, and photos of pedes with thinner. They have all been adult animals. It could be camera, but I know what the rings look. I have a thicker-ringed variant it seems. My pedes shine red under flashlight. They are not shiny black.

I find that when I cannot shake a conviction usually it's because there's something to it. Of course more research would be needed to confirm for absolute sure, but I think research might verify. I just do not see how the pedes' genes can be static. Several people have claimed here that all the Flamelegs in the US hobby came through one person. I have proof that this is not the case. They could have been imported from different areas and those populations likely had microscopically different characteristics. Anyway, quite fascinating! I'm glad I have redder ones at least :giggle:


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## Elytra and Antenna

Did you ever figure out the origin of the specimens you have?


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## jayefbe

Pictures on the Internet are not proof of something that is as plastic and variable as color. Also, given the exact same data set that you have (Internet pictures) I would draw the opposite conclusion: color changes as the pede develops. It seems clear to me that one color "morph" is always smaller than the other. Also, it's not a case of simple black versus red. You see individuals encompassing the entire spectrum. I'd expect more differentiation if they were different color morphs. Add to that the variability that can arise through different methods of photography (the only correct comparison would shots taken under the exact same conditions side by side) and that can completely explains the variation in color. It's quite easy to see what one wants to see, and it's important to be as objective as possible. Additionally, given how most exotic inverts enter the hobby, it's more than just possible that they could all be traced back to a single WC source. That's the case more often than not.


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## SDCPs

Source Unknown. Ken did not try to discover much. The only impression I have is the "source" to have been a small-scale breeder.

I know all that about photos and such. Some species are very variable (take Narceus americanus)--obviously this is no Narceus americanus but I actually expect slight variation...especially since they were imported recently, and therefore have been collected at least 2 times. See here: http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/sho...-from-the-Philippines!&highlight=acladocricus
Those look like my pedes. See the thicker red rings. "All photos are completely unreliable."--not quite how I view things. Obviously I could not get adult pedes from that shipment...unless I got them direct. Hey, I'll contact that gentleman and see if he sold any to Ken.

---------- Post added 07-28-2012 at 01:00 AM ----------

Just wanted to mention that looking over BIC's photos again--thanks for a good demonstration!--I'm not quite so certain. I still do not rule out  variation, however. But I guess it's not that important.

I do think those grey/blue millipedes are variable though


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## Elytra and Antenna

SDCPs said:


> I do think those grey/blue millipedes are variable though


 They are extemely variable from greenish to brownish to bluish but only by age and proximity to the molt. Albino Nareus americanus display a lot of variation in the pink part of the coloration but it seems to be almost entirely environmental.


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## SDCPs

Oh, I once saw a STUNNING photo--on these boards, let me try to retrieve it.

---Some Time Later---

Whew. I finally found it. I was reprimanded for posting other peoples' pics so I will only post the link: http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?95627-ID-this-millipede-please&highlight=ebay+blue

Oh, so beautiful. I feel weak looking at them. Do those pedes look tan under normal light? Have you kept them _Elytra and Antenna_?


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## SDCPs

Awesome video:

[YOUTUBE]hjxg728I4E4[/YOUTUBE]

I should probably make my own soon

Reactions: Like 1


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## SDCPs

I took two videos, hopefully the three of these combined give the general overview of the adult specimens.

[video=youtube_share;DyV8_cl60g8]http://youtu.be/DyV8_cl60g8[/video]

[video=youtube_share;zkpL1_Ti6FY]http://youtu.be/zkpL1_Ti6FY[/video]


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## Cavedweller

Whoa, are they that shiny in person?

Have you managed to clear up the mite problems or whatever was afflicting your pedes?


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## pperrotta03

That is one of the most beautiful pedes ive ever seen..

tappy tappa taparoo


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## SDCPs

Cavedweller said:


> Whoa, are they that shiny in person?
> 
> Have you managed to clear up the mite problems or whatever was afflicting your pedes?


Yes, they are very beautiful. Look best under bright white LED light from what I've seen.

I'm not sure I've managed to do too much...they have stopped dying on me. I now think feeding them is important, but I didn't use to do it. I don't know what's going on with the grain mites...haven't seen many of them recently!


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## Cavedweller

You mean you used to just give them food substrate and no supplements like fruits or veggies?

I forget, do you keep springtails in your pede enclosures? I'm glad they seem to be ok now!


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## SDCPs

Well, I fed fruit, but they didn't seem to like it as much as the substrate, so I quit. They did fine for awhile. I am not sure that this is the root cause of my problems...probably not...but I think feeding them something besides leaves is beneficial. Time will tell if an apple a day prevents massive die off.

The springtails just walked in one day...and they don't do any harm. I also have the occasional predatory mite (or so it seems).

Me too--don't have many millipedes right now...but there is a spike in mating activity (nonexistent before), so hopefully little ones soon!


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## Cavedweller

I also like to think the occasional "treat" is good for them, since they'd be able to eat all kinds of things in the wild.

I think springtails help prevent grain mites, since I haven't seen nearly as many since i introduced springtails.

Wow, I wouldn't expect fall to be the time for pedes to mate. Good luck!


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## SDCPs

My hope/hunch has been confirmed!

I now have more information on this species after keeping them for 2 years and now have written something about them!


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## Cavedweller

Interesting, I never thought about using more delicate species as an early warning system!

Congrats on the younguns!


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## Greg Pelka

I've decided to referesh this topic.

I'm on my trip to Philippines right now. I'm in Bicol province, and look what I have found on my way to Mayon volcano 





































Few photos of habitat. Description: Coconut plantation at the edge of forest. Millipedes were burried deep inside rottening cocnut shells, leaves, etc. Some of them were mating inside underground chambers.


















And our amazing guide!






Even it is middle of dry season here, and it is really hard to find anything, look what are they doing!


















My comment about mites. As you can see on previous photos - there are plenty of them. Mites are free running across the whole body of a pede. I don't think they are any threat to the host.






At the end, comment about mentioned colormorphs / color variations. As mentioned, I have noticed, that smaller specimens seems to be darker. But in general, now, with better light all of them seems to looks same.

Best regards!
Greg

Reactions: Like 9


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## pannaking22

Very cool looking pedes! Great pictures all around and good shots of what their natural environment looks like.


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## MrCrackerpants

Amazing pictures. It is so cool to see their indigenous habitat. Do you have more habitat pictures you can post?


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## SDCPs

Hey, I could be right after all about color variation. We've had a discussion about my views on the possible existence of a black flameleg morph...which has been discredited by several knowledgeable people as just age variation or difference in photography.

Well, either this is a different species or its a black morph. No photo nonsense. Admittedly, with the large proportion of pink on the legs it looks like a different species. After all there are many species of that Philippine blue/grey millipede: Acladocricus major, Acladocricus porus, Acladocricus cognatus, Acladocricus philippinus, etc.













Photo credit: ©Melvin Yeo | Locality: Kubah Gading, Sarawak, Malaysia (2012) Source website

While this millipede's looks are cool, I like the millipedes that I keep and sell better

Reactions: Like 1


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## MrCrackerpants

SDCPs said:


> Hey, I could be right after all about color variation. We've had a discussion about my views on the possible existence of a black flameleg morph...which has been discredited by several knowledgeable people as just age variation or difference in photography.
> 
> Well, either this is a different species or its a black morph. No photo nonsense. Admittedly, with the large proportion of pink on the legs it looks like a different species. After all there are many species of that Philippine blue/grey millipede: Acladocricus major, Acladocricus porus, Acladocricus cognatus, Acladocricus philippinus, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> 
> 
> Photo credit: ©Melvin Yeo | Locality: Kubah Gading, Sarawak, Malaysia (2012) Source website
> 
> While this millipede's looks are cool, I like the millipedes that I keep and sell better


That top picture is insane.


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## SDCPs

Haha, LOL. Its a good quality photo too. I think that's much of what's awesome about it. That's definitely a male by those monstrous legs alone!

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## Elytra and Antenna

I'd rather have that Malaysian pede if the color wasn't doctored though that branch is a little purple. What does that have to do with the Philippine Flamelegs? (I'm guessing maybe the reference is it _looks like_ it might be in the same genus).
----Nevermind the question, I see the picture is labeled Philippine Flameleg on some websites even though it is from Malaysia, has a pronounced telson spike and so is not likely a member of the same genus.

Reactions: Like 1


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## SDCPs

Elytra and Antenna said:


> I see the picture is labeled Philippine Flameleg on some websites even though it is from Malaysia, has a pronounced telson spike and so is not likely a member of the same genus.


Aha! The experienced eye catches a telson spike. Looks more and more like a different species, eh?

Once again the color morph idea lacks support.

Reactions: Like 1


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