# BAD mouth rot in dumeril's boa



## sassysmama (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi, I have a very cute little (18 inch) male dumeril's boa that I got 10 days ago from a very knowledgable and well kept pet store.  He seemed fine, but was not interested in taking food from me.  I attributed it to stress from being moved and put into a different cage.  He is in a 10 gallon with probably 1 inch of eco earth as substrate, 60% humidity, and temps ranging from 78-82.  
Since he was not eating for me, I had temporarily stopped handling him and partially covered his cage to reduce stress.  Yesterday I removed him to try feeding him again (I never feed in the enclosure) and was shocked/disgusted at his mouth.  It has probably been about four days since I last handled him, and there were no external signs at that time.  I peek in on him daily, but either there were no external signs or I missed it.  
Anyway, when I opened his mouth yesterday to clean it his entire mouth was filled with that greenish yellow "pus" stuff.  I got most of it off with slightly moistened q-tips, but there were some parts stuck to his teeth in his upper jaw that would not come out. He also had a piece of necrotic tissue on the side of his jaw about the size of a q-tip end.  I removed that, and cleaned him the best I could, then used diluted betadine on a q-tip to try and help him out.  I also raised the temp to 85 and his substrate is now paper towels.  Today, his jaw looks better externally, no more swelling, and his lip is in the normal position.  I have not cleaned it yet today.  Based on what I saw yesterday, the damage to his mouth is extensive and *may* have reached the bone.  He will most certainly be going to work with me tomorrow (I'm a vet tech and one of the vet's does see exotics).  
My question is, to anyone with any experience with this, is there anything else I can do for him tonight?  He will get vet care at 8:00 am tomorrow, so should I screw with his mouth anymore tonight, or just wait?  There is a WONDERFUL exotics vet (not the one I work for, this one is a specialist), about 30 minutes from me, but he will not be open until tuesday, and I wanted to take him to my vet first.  I know that the exotics only vet will operate on snakes, but I'm wondering if I should put him through that and was wondering if snakes with advanced mouth rot have any hope of survival.  I totally trust both vets, but I think that sometimes vets can be little short-sighted about treatments.  Just because something CAN be done, does not mean that it SHOULD be done, or that it is in that animal's best interest to have that procedure if it will still most likely die or if it will suffer for long periods before having to be euthanized.  So, all opinions are appreciated.  Thanks,
Ally


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## Diggy415 (Jun 15, 2008)

just leave well enough alone until you see the person at work and they can advise you on what to do, good change on the newspaper, and quite handeling it until it gets better. let us know.


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## xchondrox (Jun 15, 2008)

It sounds like you've done everything that you need to do so far. Id just leave him be until tomarrow morning, Id also recommend keeping him on paper towles or newspaper from here on out. You may also want to wash the cage, hide, water bowl with a 10% bleach solution. Good luck!


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## dovii88 (Jun 16, 2008)

i use mouthwash..works well just dont use alot


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## sassysmama (Jun 17, 2008)

Here's a quick update on "Batman" as I've decided to call him.  I thought I would be as specific as possible so that anyone else who has to treat a snake with mouth rot can be helped by my experience.  
First of all, apparently the best solution to use for cleaning the mouth is ChlorHex surgical scrub (blue solution that any vet should have), diluted with equal amounts of saline.  Diluted betadine, hydrogen peroxide, or mouthwash can work in a pinch, but the ChlorHex is the best.  In addition to killing bacteria, it will work on fungi as well and it has the least chance of causing harm to the snake.
Batman has been placed on Ampicillin and Tobramycin, each to be injected daily intramuscularly, for 10 days.  Mouth rot is very often a secondary infection.  In this case, we think he also has pneumonia.  I already removed him from my reptile room, knowing that mouth rot and any other infections he has are quite contagious.  As I learned today, mouth rot should really be treated or at least seen by your vet because they may require antibiotics or fluids (also given to Batman to prevent dehydration).  I also ran what the cost of treatment would be for a client, which was approx. $100.  Not that bad, especially if you had an expensive morph or something.
Anyway, the prognosis is pretty good for him and we expect him to make a decent recovery.  He may have a little scarring around his lips, but nothing that should interfere with eating in any way.  Thanks for the concern about my little guy and I will post some pics after he starts feeling better.


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## OldHag (Jun 21, 2008)

Glad he is doing better!! That would be kind of a scary thing! I would panic if one of my babies got mouthrot. Good to know what can be done! Thanks for the update!


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## sassysmama (Jun 29, 2008)

*RIP Batman*

Batman was humanely euthanized several days after my post.  He developed neurological symptoms and we put him on steriod therapy to help.  We also put him on inhaled therapy (DMSO) given with a hot steam vaporizer.  He improved temporarily and days later we cleaned his mouth aggressively and force fed a pinky mouse.  The next day his mouth was very necrotic and he had no muscle tone in his entire body, could not right himself when turned over, and was obviously beyond help.  His biggest problem was either viral or bacterial encephalitis, meaning that the respiratory and mouth infections had spread to his brain.  It was an extremely sad outcome for me and one that I was not prepared for.  Batman was very loved during the time I had him and I held him in my arms and kept him warm and comfortable while he passed.  He will be sorely missed and when I am ready, I will be looking for another pink phase baby dumeril's, preferrably from a reputable breeder.  Thank you to the people who expressed concern for my special snake, and understood why I didn't just freeze him, as many non-animal lovers suggested. 
-Ally


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## OldHag (Jun 29, 2008)

wow, that is so sad. Ive very sorry..it hurts when a critter your trying so hard to help is beyond our help  Im glad you tried your best for him and didnt freeze him either. You did the right thing in my book!

Michelle


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## gambite (Jun 29, 2008)

That is terrible. Sounds like you should talk with the pet store. They may not have known about it, and since you say its contagious then maybe he caught it from another animal in the store. Do you have any pics?


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## Kid Dragon (Jun 29, 2008)

Boid encephalitis is usually spread by mites. I wonder if he had a mite infestation before you bought him?


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## xchondrox (Jun 30, 2008)

That sucks! I think that you should go say something to this reputable petstore aswell.


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## sassysmama (Jun 30, 2008)

I did go talk to the pet store.  The guy kind of laughed and said "well that sucks for you!"  He was actually thrilled that it lived more than 48 hours after I bought it so that he didn't have to replace it.  Needless to say I will NEVER go back there again.  
I contacted a local reptile dealer and breeder and he said that the store agreed to sell a large burmese python for him several years ago.  Long story short, they kept it in poor conditions, about two months later it developed a respiratory infection and subsequently died.  He demanded payment since they had caused its death.  He never did get any money.  Guess they are not so great after all.  It seems they only care about the animals living long enough to sell them.  I was so wrong about that place.  
It's just a depressing situation all the way around.  From now on I will never buy any live animal from a pet store unless its a feeder.  I am going to stick to reputable breeders and dealers, somebody who has some ethics and actually cares about the animals they sell.


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## gambite (Jul 1, 2008)

sassy, that really blows. But I would not completely rule out buying live animals at pet stores, just from that one store. If you spend enough time examining the animal before you buy it, you can probably spot health problems before you buy it. Also, I would suggest trying to get to know the owner, and if its a nice store maybe buy a few small things before getting something huge to get a feel for the quality of the store. 

Edit: Oh yeah the main thing I forgot to say was that some breeders may not be willing to sell (to) individuals. Thus, you may need to go through the pet-store as a middle-man to get some things. For example, the store I have gotten a lot of my animals from has contacts with local breeders, and you can special order all kinda of stuff straight from the breeder through the store. However, the breeders would be very unhappy if they started getting people calling them up about their stock.


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