# Is a Psalmopoeus irminia a good first arboreal tarantula?



## Aqual (Mar 30, 2017)

I want to get an arboreal but I don't know which ones are good for beginners since I have never had an arboreal tarantula before


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## Chris LXXIX (Mar 30, 2017)

I wouldn't suggest a _P.irminia_ as first arboreal... they tend to be defensive. I've saw (believe me or not) _P.irminia_ with more attitude than certain 'Pokies'.
Plus they love to hide. This is not a 'Cons' for me but.

_Psalmopoeus cambridgei _is the perfect arboreal for start: easy to care, hardy, not (IMO) defensive at all, keeper errors-forgiving, females reach a nice size...

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## KezyGLA (Mar 30, 2017)

Psalmopoeus langenbucheri/cambridgei

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## Venom1080 (Mar 30, 2017)

expect speed and defensiveness. but are fast growing and beautiful. some people almost never see theres, but i see my two daily.

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## KezyGLA (Mar 30, 2017)

IME langenbucheri is out more than any other arboreal I have kept. I would recommend it as it isnt defensive and only grows 4inches max

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## Ungoliant (Mar 30, 2017)

Aqual said:


> I want to get an arboreal but I don't know which ones are good for beginners since I have never had an arboreal tarantula before


If you want something a little slower than a _Psalmopoeus_, you can get an _Avicularia_ (2" or larger, no slings for your first). Just be sure to follow the instructions here, as Avics are less tolerant of newbie errors. (Ideally, post pictures of your setup to get feedback before you add the spider.)

Reactions: Agree 3 | Award 1


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## viper69 (Mar 31, 2017)

Aqual said:


> I want to get an arboreal but I don't know which ones are good for beginners since I have never had an arboreal tarantula before


NO NO NO

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## edesign (Mar 31, 2017)

No, Psalmos are not introductory arboreals. Can you manage one? Maybe, maybe not. Start with an Avic and learn how arboreals behave and move first. I would avoid diversipes though, all three of my slings are skittish and fast for an Avic. Others have noticed this as well.

I never see my irminia, all two weeks I've had her lol, but I've read a lot about them and the general consensus is most are more secretive than your average Psalmo. And defensive. I will say I had more trouble getting mine out of its shipping tube than any other spider I own and any other rehousing I've done (60+, 20+ genera, OW and NW, including a recently rehoused 6" P. ornata), it was striking at my tools and refused to budge. I actually wound up leaving it in a bigger tank to let it come out on its own which was a first for me. Their venom is also stronger than your typical NW. Combine that with their speed and the potential is there for a bad time especially for a new arboreal keeper.

Do you have any OW experience or just terrestrial NW? But, again, terrestrials will obviously behave and move differently than an arboreal. A small sling may be ok provided you give yourself room to catch it if it takes off but it could also easily surprise you and wind up giving you a kiss  That's why I suggest an Avic, get used to the movements as arboreals are much more prone to run in three dimensions than a terrestrial, adds an extra degree of difficulty sometimes.

Try a versicolor, keep it well ventilated, and you'll love it as a first arboreal. They can be a bit skittish and will jump (as will Psalmos), prey aggression is high ime, and they web like crazy. Mine seem to be relaxing as they become juvies.

And Avic slings really aren't that hard to raise. Ventilation is the key and not keeping them too humid. Stagnant air will kill them. Don't be afraid of air holes.

I've also read about plenty of defensive cambridgei, my 4"  cambridgei has given me threat displays numerous times. Pretty sure it tried to tag me once at half that size. Rehousing went smooth but it certainly let me know it was not happy being removed from its home. I wouldn't consider them the perfect starter arboreal. I'd recommend an I. hirsutum before a Psalmo. Pretty fast when they want, can be defensive even as small juvies (regular threat displays from my pair even at <2"), minus the stronger venom.

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## 14pokies (Mar 31, 2017)

Venom1080 said:


> i see my two daily.


Same here I see them every night..



Chris LXXIX said:


> they tend to be defensive. I've saw (believe me or not) _P.irminia_ with more attitude than certain 'Pokies'.


I've never seen any species of pokie that is as defensive as a P.irminia once you start disturbing it for transferring etc..

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 5


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## boina (Mar 31, 2017)

For all those people recommending Avics: My A. huriana is the most skittish T I own, given to racing, even jumping, around it's enclosure even at small disturbances. I've already had two near escapes and I've only had it a month. All my Psalmos are easier to deal with, even my irminia. I'd still go with the cambridgei, though, they are generally the most relaxed Psalmos.



KezyGLA said:


> IME langenbucheri is out more than any other arboreal I have kept. I would recommend it as it isnt defensive and only grows 4inches max


Where can I get one in Europe??


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## KezyGLA (Mar 31, 2017)

boina said:


> For all those people recommending Avics: My A. huriana is the most skittish T I own, given to racing, even jumping, around it's enclosure even at small disturbances. I've already had two near escapes and I've only had it a month. All my Psalmos are easier to deal with, even my irminia. I'd still go with the cambridgei, though, they are generally the most relaxed Psalmos.
> 
> 
> 
> Where can I get one in Europe??


There have been a few breedings very recently in your country 

Check facebook page 'Faszination vogelspinne' or the classifieds websites

Reactions: Like 1


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## boina (Mar 31, 2017)

KezyGLA said:


> There have been a few breedings very recently in your country
> 
> Check facebook page 'Faszination vogelspinne' or the classifieds websites


Found it

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## edesign (Mar 31, 2017)

boina said:


> For all those people recommending Avics: My A. huriana is the most skittish T I own, given to racing, even jumping, around it's enclosure even at small disturbances. I've already had two near escapes and I've only had it a month.


They're still not as fast as a Psalmo. Nothing wrong with skittish, the issue is the speed difference (most Avics, I did say avoid diversipes lol, I had a full grown huriana many years ago, had no issues with it but I never gave it a chance to run) and venom strength.

OP hasn't said what Ts they have and for how long. An escaped Avic is really no big deal. An escaped Psalmo otoh, while not an OW, is worth being a bit concerned about especially an adult.

My four ecclesiasticus slings were jumpy when I first rehoused them but easily manageable. Time will tell how they are when bigger  Individuals vary too, we all know that.

I just can't imagine an Avic being so fast and flighty that it could actually escape from me. Run out of its tank, sure, np, but cover enough ground fast enough that I can't catch it? Maybe the diversipes when they get bigger but I'm not convinced they're actually Avics. They act more like Iridopelma imho and, while coloration means little when it comes to classification, the abdominal patterns when young are very similar. I'm not a taxonomist though

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## Goodlukwitthat (Mar 31, 2017)

Chris LXXIX said:


> I wouldn't suggest a _P.irminia_ as first arboreal... they tend to be defensive. I've saw (believe me or not) _P.irminia_ with more attitude than certain 'Pokies'.
> Plus they love to hide. This is not a 'Cons' for me but.
> 
> _Psalmopoeus cambridgei _is the perfect arboreal for start: easy to care, hardy, not (IMO) defensive at all, keeper errors-forgiving, females reach a nice size...



Aww my 3 P. irminias are calm and haven't much care in the world   Although they are my 2nd arboreal tarantula lol.  Prior to them I have an A. Avic...I guess I really messed up on those "stepping stones" haha.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Helpful 1


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## Nightstalker47 (Mar 31, 2017)

Psalmopoeus can be flighty and defensive. If you had to choose one I'd go with P.cambridgei , they are fast growing, voracious eaters and are hardier then irminia, as far as humidity goes anyway. Plus cambridgei get bigger and grow faster IME, I have 3 P. Irminia and I only see them out at night. My adult cambridgei females come out of their dens to greet me sometimes, love feeding them cause they don't spook as easy as irminia.

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## Chris LXXIX (Mar 31, 2017)

Let me explain why I don't consider genus _Avicularia _(hoping that the name wouldn't change in the meantime ) as a good beginner arboreal _Theraphosidae_.

Yeah they aren't defensive at all (not the way I consider/view as 'defensive' a _Theraphosidae_, at least) and, while speedy (doesn't exists slow arboreals, one moment) their speed is less 'nervous' than a _P.cambridgei_ one. But they aren't the best for everyone.

We know how to care about those, even if I'm not an 'avic' fan at all. But not everyone. They are not, even if someone is in good faith, "mistake-forgiving" user friendly. Think about how many, but how many threads you have read about 'avics & issues' so far, and how many for a _P.cambridgei_?

The right ventilation, so basically air "quality", is really essence when it comes to those.

'avics' are an amazing striking colors genus that IMO belongs to a separate league... pure aesthetic T's, just like a (rich) man that collects vintage class A cars of once. And, in fact, even here where T's are supposed to cost less, certain 'avics' females are prized. Why I'm saying this?

Because 'avics' IMO teach basically nothing important to someone interested into a real arboreal challenge that, one day, will lead to _S.calceatum_ and such (assuming there's again folks out there that still loves the old good 'step by step', 'ladder' way, uh).

_P.cambridgei_ are the milestone: they possess all the perfect features for such a goal. I do know that their venom is nasty and a bit "powerful" for being NW, but it's simple: avoid bites.

Their level of defensiveness is highly overexaggerated. I see no reasons for not suggest to a *serious *keeper interested into an arboreal path challenge those.

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## cold blood (Mar 31, 2017)

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__ cold blood
__ Nov 25, 2016
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						A species that still looks great in pre-molt:)
					
















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__ cold blood
__ Mar 3, 2017
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						cam dumpster

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## Paramite (Mar 31, 2017)

P. cambridgei was my first tarantula. I never had any problems.

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## Venom1080 (Mar 31, 2017)

14pokies said:


> I've never seen any species of pokie that is as defensive as a P.irminia once you start disturbing it for transferring etc..


agreed. Pokie temperament is so over hyped. i practically have to push my subfusca to get her to move.

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## 14pokies (Mar 31, 2017)

Venom1080 said:


> agreed. Pokie temperament is so over hyped. i practically have to push my subfusca to get her to move.


I don't have to push my big bad ornata to move her.. As soon as I open the door to her enclosure she runs into her hide .. Im sure she is in there giving me a  threat posture and dripping venom though ...

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## edesign (Mar 31, 2017)

Again, OP has not stated what they currently have and for how long. I don't see the forums dripping with dead Avic sling posts. Yes, there is the occasional post but far from an epidemic. I would also venture that they have been reduced over the years due to more information/posts out there stressing the need for proper ventilation. I seem to recall seeing a lot more 10-15 years ago.

Heck, I just searched the forums using various keyword combos like "Avicularia avic sling died", "avic sling Avicularia sick", and more broadly "sling died". I went back over 14 months of posts on that last one and only a handful of Avic sling death posts, half seemed to be A. purpurea. I think I saw about an equal number of Brachy sling deaths posted and I see those recommended to total beginners all the time  So, again, I'm not seeing a plethora of dead Avic sling posts and you can buy juveniles that are far hardier for a decent price.

An Avic not teaching anything necessary about challenging arboreals? I don't buy that at all. Are you, Chris, suggesting that a small step with Avics to learn how arboreals move differently (up, up, and away! ...or down, down, in to my tube! Lol) before pushing the accelerator pedal down a bit is not teaching someone who only has terrestrials? You're often one I see touting that people shouldn't move too fast. There's always caveats, as noted, such as the keeper's natural proficiency, some people are naturally better with more challenging species.

But, only the OP can answer that about themselves (they joined the forum a week and a half ago, could be new to the internet/long time lurker/or literally just started keeping a couple of months ago, and have provided no reply to questions yet), and you do have to challenge yourself at some point to progress to keeping some other species.

A. avicularia juvies and adults are dirt cheap (over here anyway) thus negating the ventilation sensitivity issue...which I don't see how it's ever an issue if people wouldn't be afraid to actually put proper air holes, size and quantity  Heck, I got my near 5" A. metallica (female, unsexed at the LPS) for under $40 iirc.

Some could be fine with a Psalmo as a first arboreal. Some wouldn't. I'm not going to suggest one to someone unless they've provided a bit more info about themselves and their experience level. Got some OW terrestrials? Yeah, you're likely gonna be fine. Got a G. rosea for two months? You're gonna be in for some surprises that could more easily go sideways. We need to know more about the OP's background and what size they plan to buy first imo.

Like I said, there's always Iridopelma hirsutum as an option. Faster and more defensive than Avics ime with my pair of juvies that I've raised from slings. Or Ybyrapora diversipes (why nobody corrected me? Lol)...not an Avic

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## Aqual (Mar 31, 2017)

edesign said:


> Again, OP has not stated what they currently have and for how long. I don't see the forums dripping with dead Avic sling posts. Yes, there is the occasional post but far from an epidemic. I would also venture that they have been reduced over the years due to more information/posts out there stressing the need for proper ventilation. I seem to recall seeing a lot more 10-15 years ago.
> 
> Heck, I just searched the forums using various keyword combos like "Avicularia avic sling died", "avic sling Avicularia sick", and more broadly "sling died". I went back over 14 months of posts on that last one and only a handful of Avic sling death posts, half seemed to be A. purpurea. I think I saw about an equal number of Brachy sling deaths posted and I see those recommended to total beginners all the time  So, again, I'm not seeing a plethora of dead Avic sling posts and you can buy juveniles that are far hardier for a decent price.
> 
> ...


Sorry for not responding I was busy studying. I have an LP and a GBB. The GBB is about 3/4". The LP is about 1/2"

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## Chris LXXIX (Mar 31, 2017)

edesign said:


> An Avic not teaching anything necessary about challenging arboreals? I don't buy that at all. Are you, Chris, suggesting that a small step with Avics to learn how arboreals move differently (up, up, and away! ...or down, down, in to my tube! Lol) before pushing the accelerator pedal down a bit is not teaching someone who only has terrestrials? You're often one I see touting that people shouldn't move too fast. There's always caveats, as noted, such as the keeper's natural proficiency, some people are naturally better with more challenging species.


Yes I'm saying that man 

'avics' for me are... 'avics': a genus per se where genuine 'avics' collectors (mind, different than those with one/two 'avics') loves to enjoy their striking vivid colors eight legged, and they want all of those... just like a rich man loves his vintage class cars collection. I don't want to undermine 'avics' at all, ain't a fan, but I don't want to undermine those. Don't get me wrong 

I also love to say that (IMO) to someone really interested in arboreals there's not that much to learn when it comes to temperament from those, no matter that certain 'avics' (I think about_ A.laeta_, but could be wrong) are a bit/can be more defensive.

But anyway, seriously, _P.cambridgei _temperament is exaggerated. They aren't that bad... I personally rate their level of defensiveness 4 max - max 5 out of 10 (where 10 is for the likes of _S.calceatum_).

As far the advice I can give to others about certain _Theraphosidae _are concerned, obviously that if someone wants to jump into certain Africans after _B.smithi_ (and such) only I would give him/her an advice... but for arboreal the thing is different: there isn't that much of a (genus) choice.

Really I see no reason for not suggesting a _P.cambridgei_ (again, _P.cambridgei_ and not _P.irminia_) to someone as first arboreal (not first T's, first arboreal).

It's like for 'GBB', they are more skittish and fast unlike the average NW lazy pet rocks... yet they are perfect suitable for a beginner with the will to learn and for doing "homeworks" 

Anyway that's my opinion 



edesign said:


> A. avicularia juvies and adults are dirt cheap (over here anyway) thus negating the ventilation sensitivity issue...which I don't see how it's ever an issue if people wouldn't be afraid to actually put proper air holes, size and quantity  Heck, I got my near 5" A. metallica (female, unsexed at the LPS) for under $40 iirc.


Yeah, those are cheap even here. I was talking about (0.1) _A.minatrix, A.laeta _and such.

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## Ungoliant (Mar 31, 2017)

Chris LXXIX said:


> We know how to care about those, even if I'm not an 'avic' fan at all. But not everyone. They are not, even if someone is in good faith, "mistake-forgiving" user friendly. Think about how many, but how many threads you have read about 'avics & issues' so far, and how many for a _P.cambridgei_?


While Avics seem to tolerate a narrower range of conditions, I think that a reason we see far more "Help My Dying Avic" threads than "Help My Dying Psalmo" threads is that new keepers are far more likely to have an _Avicularia_ than a _Psalmopoeus_. (New keepers often buy from local pet stores, where the tarantula inventory is often limited to _Grammostola rosea_/_porteri_ and _Avicularia avicularia_.) Psalmos tend to be owned by more experienced keepers, so they make fewer newbie errors.

I don't think Avics are really that difficult to keep. (After all, my first two tarantulas, the first being a complete surprise, were Avics.) You just have to read the right manual. Posting for feedback on your first Avic enclosure is also a good idea. (Almost all of the "Help My Dying Avic" threads could have been prevented by doing so.)

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## edesign (Apr 1, 2017)

Aqual said:


> Sorry for not responding I was busy studying. I have an LP and a GBB. The GBB is about 3/4". The LP is about 1/2"


Ah, np, studies are more important. We'll entertain ourselves in the meantime lol.Those are both fairly aggressive when it comes to prey so you're used to seeing them scamper towards prey and watching a spider move with purpose beyond the wait-and-ambush approach. GBB are semi-arboreal and the ones I have had/have are often seen hanging on the side of their tank or on steep webbing.

With that said and your newness to these given your spiders' current size and thread title I would be hesitant to recommend one. In addition to my likely male cambridgei I recently received three 3/4" slings. Less prone to jump off of enclosure walls during rehousing than the four ecclesiasticus slings and if you've had your spiders a couple of months you can probably handle the speed if you buy a similarly sized sling. All of my Psalmo slings run for cover when it's feeding time.

Just be aware that getting bit, even by a sling, is going to carry more consequence than most NW's if its not a dry bite and keep your fingers out of range, you'll be ok. If it escapes and you have other people in the house they deserve to be made aware so if they get bit they know what to expect especially if you're not around at the time it happens to tell them 

I should admit that I went to pokies first then to Psalmos but I think that my Iridopelmas are currently at or near the top of my list for owned arboreals. Their colors are great, they can have attitude if they feel threatened, they're faster than Avics, and they're less common. Not that Psalmos seem to be a commonly kept spider either.

Or, there's always Tappies  ZOOOOOOM! But no, I jest, stick with the aforementioned suggestions and pay attention to Chris especially for Psalmo species advice of you decide to go that route 

Good luck!

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## mistertim (Apr 2, 2017)

IME Pokies are far less defensive than Psalmos. I wouldn't recommend starting out arboreal with a Pokie though. They're VERY fast and pack a serious punch with venom. First arboreal IMO would be most Avics. That was my 2nd tarantula and they're relatively calm but you have to make sure to give anchor points for webbing up at the top.


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## D Sherlod (Apr 2, 2017)

Would Tapi's be a more suitable aboreal


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## Sana (Apr 2, 2017)

I started my arboreal experience with a larger avic and I have no regrets.  The first time you see a true arboreal jump a good distance (avics included) is quite the experience.  I was nervous for a while after witnessing my first real jump.  Better to have that happen with an avic than a psalmo.

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## Ungoliant (Apr 2, 2017)

D Sherlod said:


> Would Tapi's be a more suitable aboreal


They aren't recommended as a first arboreal due to their teleportation-like speed.

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## Grimmdreadly (Apr 12, 2017)

Aqual said:


> I want to get an arboreal but I don't know which ones are good for beginners since I have never had an arboreal tarantula before


I always suggest A.Purpurea or C.Laeta for first arboreal. You want one around two inches to start. After you got used to those, then I'd upgrade to Psalmies.

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## jaycied (Apr 12, 2017)

P. irminia is definitely not an intro arboreal. It's more commonly used as a bridge into OW because of their speed, defensiveness, and venom potency relative to other NW. I would probably go with an A. avic instead.

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## Jeff23 (Apr 12, 2017)

If I could go back in time I would buy all of my Psalmopoeus before I bought any of my Avics.  I haven't had a single Psalm come out of the container.  Rehousings can be planned if you start with a deli cup.

Psalms are a piece of cake on husbandry if you give them the correct setup.

Reactions: Agree 4 | Helpful 1


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## Gman32176 (Apr 12, 2017)

My irminia is the only T that I don't really like working with so far... Soooooo fast. Mind you, I'm still a noob but I've already been focusing on OW sp. (primarily P. murinus) and I'd rather rehouse my big girl than my 2.5/3" irminia sling. It does seem to be one of my more defensive sp. as well, but (again) I'm an OW lover so that doesn't really bother me too much. Given, I guess it's also a lot different when it's an angry arboreal.


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## N1ghtFire (Apr 12, 2017)

Aqual said:


> I want to get an arboreal but I don't know which ones are good for beginners since I have never had an arboreal tarantula before


My first arboreal was C. versicolor, I got 3 of them then shortly got 4 more avics. ^.^ Some people claim avics have a high mortality rate and can be unforgiving with mistakes, but as long as you have a general idea of proper setup I think they are wonderful first arboreals. They have beautiful colors, grow fairly quick (have a medium growth rate), and are pretty docile.  They have been really easy to take care of for me and are very good eaters. ^.^

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Gman32176 (Apr 12, 2017)

N1ghtFire said:


> My first arboreal was C. versicolor, I got 3 of them then shortly got 4 more avics. ^.^ Some people claim avics have a high mortality rate and can be unforgiving with mistakes, but as long as you have a general idea of proper setup I think they are wonderful first arboreals. They have beautiful colors, grow fairly quick (have a medium growth rate), and are pretty docile.  They have been really easy to take care of for me and are very good eaters. ^.^


Love my little A. purpurea. Like I said, I'm a noob and I've heard these are one of the more delicate species. It's molted twice for me since I got it and I'm hoping it's going to be in premolt rather soon.  Such a fat little thing right now.

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## Jaycooks1 (Aug 1, 2022)

I have an AVic. AVic for my first arboreal. Had various NW Mexican Ts from the pet store before her. She is 2.5-3 inches hides alot but I see her out in the night or early mornings. If I touch the enclosure she goes straight to the cork bark and stays in while I clean.  She is fast I have seen her rocket out of her web for pray and it surprised me. And she is pretty i love seeing those pink toes hanging over the cork bark.  Iridopelma Hirsutum is next on my list. Then a Psalmo. or Gooty


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