# Scolopendra subspinipes Got loose!



## Mslinger (Apr 13, 2019)

I stupidly thought the top of his inclosure was secure. He/she managed to get out and now is loose in my room.
Unfortunately the room is cluttered with boxes and other things.
Anyone know of a easy way to attract it in and catch it? 
It’s about 8 inches. 
Kind words of advice please I’m already beating myself up over this.


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## Vanisher (Apr 13, 2019)

Pour up a large scotch on the rocks, take a deep.breath and stsrt looking everywhere in the room!

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2


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## BepopCola (Apr 13, 2019)

I read somewhere that people set up dark/moist "traps" in various places around the room, as long as it's still in the room.
Like a box of misted sphagnum moss for the pede to use as a shelter.

Reactions: Like 1


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## chanda (Apr 13, 2019)

Do you share your house/apartment with anyone else? Roommates? Family members? Children? Other pets?

If you share your home with other people, you should warn them that it is on the loose so they can keep an eye out for it - and so nobody makes the mistake of trying to grab it. If you have cats or dogs in the home, you may want to take steps to protect them, such as putting them out in the yard, confining them in a different room, or finding someone who can "pet sit" for you until the centipede is either recovered or given up for dead - especially if this is a large 'pede. 

Unfortunately, there is no "easy" way to find and catch it. If it were me, I'd start by closing off the room by stuffing towels into the crack under the door in the hope that it is still in the room. Then, grab a catch cup and start moving boxes - _very carefully_ - checking underneath and inside each one as you do. Use a bright flashlight to illuminate small spaces and don't stick your bare hands into any spaces that you can't verify are unoccupied. Designate a section of the room that has already been cleared, then as you check each box or other item, move it over and pile it in that section of the room. Also check under and behind any furniture or shelving, along the edges of rugs or carpets, underneath any throw rugs, and inside heater or air conditioning vents. 

Good luck!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mslinger (Apr 13, 2019)

BepopCola said:


> I read somewhere that people set up dark/moist "traps" in various places around the room, as long as it's still in the room.
> Like a box of misted sphagnum moss for the pede to use as a shelter.


I just was told that by another friend, good advice thanks.


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## Mslinger (Apr 13, 2019)

chanda said:


> Do you share your house/apartment with anyone else? Roommates? Family members? Children? Other pets?
> 
> If you share your home with other people, you should warn them that it is on the loose so they can keep an eye out for it - and so nobody makes the mistake of trying to grab it. If you have cats or dogs in the home, you may want to take steps to protect them, such as putting them out in the yard, confining them in a different room, or finding someone who can "pet sit" for you until the centipede is either recovered or given up for dead - especially if this is a large 'pede.
> 
> ...


Thanks that’s really good advice too.
I didn’t think to close the room off but it seems like the obvious solution,
I’ll do that. Yes I have small children at home, no pets.


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## Elytra and Antenna (Apr 13, 2019)

You can take some wet towels and lay them in various corners hoping it will be under one in the morning. It's worth a shot.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## vyadha (Apr 13, 2019)

Ive used those Air Dusters to get hissers out from behind furniture/appliances when they've got out. Could be helpful here.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## chanda (Apr 13, 2019)

Mslinger said:


> Thanks that’s really good advice too.
> I didn’t think to close the room off but it seems like the obvious solution,
> I’ll do that. Yes I have small children at home, no pets.


Yeah, especially with small children, be sure to tell them that if they see a strange bug to tell you about it right away - but _not_ to try to touch or catch it themselves!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Bill S (Apr 13, 2019)

I have used traps to catch a few escapees.  The trap consists of a one-gallon plastic flower pot of the type plant nurseries use for commercial growing.  They generally have four fairly large drainage holes along the side at the bottom, and I half fill the pot with loose damp sphagnum.  Centipedes need more moisture than the average house (even a cluttered one) provides, and the black plastic gives them a damp dark hiding place.  Place them against the walls, in corners, etc.  Not only have I caught escapees in them, but we have two local species that occasionally show up in the house (Scolopendra polymorpha and Scolopendra heros), and they have turned up in the traps as well.

Reactions: Like 2


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## NYAN (Apr 13, 2019)

A friend of mine had his dehaani escape. He woke up to it biting his toe. 

Hopefully it doesn’t come to that for you. As someone else mentioned, use something with moisture to try to attract it to the area. Also, keep in mind that they are nocturnal. You may have luck looking around at night.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## chanda (Apr 13, 2019)

Bill S said:


> Not only have I caught escapees in them, but we have two local species that occasionally show up in the house (Scolopendra polymorpha and Scolopendra heros), and they have turned up in the traps as well.


Lucky! I wish I had native centipedes just wandering in to my house! The best I find are the occasional small spiders - and a few odds and ends that show up in the garage. Maybe I'll have to set out some of those traps on my patio or in my garage! We don't have heros out here in SoCal, but we do have polymorpha.


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## Mslinger (Apr 14, 2019)

vyadha said:


> Ive used those Air Dusters to get hissers out from behind furniture/appliances when they've got out. Could be helpful here.


Centipede is a little big for the duster I have, we’re talking elec vac right?


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## Mslinger (Apr 14, 2019)

NYAN said:


> A friend of mine had his dehaani escape. He woke up to it biting his toe.
> 
> Hopefully it doesn’t come to that for you. As someone else mentioned, use something with moisture to try to attract it to the area. Also, keep in mind that they are nocturnal. You may have luck looking around at night.


Yikes that would really suck. I didn’t think they were aggressive like that unless cornered. I have had them crawl up my leg before and I just brushed them off.


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## Mslinger (Apr 14, 2019)

Bill S said:


> I have used traps to catch a few escapees.  The trap consists of a one-gallon plastic flower pot of the type plant nurseries use for commercial growing.  They generally have four fairly large drainage holes along the side at the bottom, and I half fill the pot with loose damp sphagnum.  Centipedes need more moisture than the average house (even a cluttered one) provides, and the black plastic gives them a damp dark hiding place.  Place them against the walls, in corners, etc.  Not only have I caught escapees in them, but we have two local species that occasionally show up in the house (Scolopendra polymorpha and Scolopendra heros), and they have turned up in the traps as well.


Thanks, I’m going to do this.
I have turned the room upside down, and can’t find it. Hopefully it turns up in one of those damn traps soon.


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## Bill S (Apr 14, 2019)

chanda said:


> Lucky! I wish I had native centipedes just wandering in to my house! ...


One of my favorite in-house capture stories happened one morning when I sat down at my computer while waiting for breakfast to cook.  I didn't have any shoes on yet, and I felt something crawling across my foot.  I looked down and saw a fairly large S. heros on top of my foot.  I didn't want it to get away, but also didn't want to get bitten.  I stood up, raised that foot and hopped on the other foot into the next room where I had an empty five gallon bucket.  I put my foot in the bucket, the centipede crawled off my foot - and I had a new specimen for my collection.

A second story - one morning my wife was in the bathroom brushing her teeth and noticed in the mirror that there was something on the wall behind her.  It turned out to be an escaped S. hainanum, which is now back in its cage.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Polenth (Apr 14, 2019)

Mslinger said:


> Centipede is a little big for the duster I have, we’re talking elec vac right?


The idea is to puff air into the hiding places you can't get into, rather than suck the animal out. Never tried it on a centipede, but it'll get cockroaches moving for sure. Anything that can puff air will work.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Chris LXXIX (Apr 14, 2019)

It's up to you to believe or not this story, but nonetheless, I'm not lying 

I lived basically for months (let me repeat this, for months) with a _S.subspinipes_ "on the loose" (there's a reason for the " ") and *nothing* happened. I mean, nothing, literally, because I wasn't even aware of having a 'pede on the loose in the first place (altough, viewing things in retrospective, I should had guessed something like that).

The whole thing happened because my 'pede was gravid (purchased as 'unsexed', arrived gravid... normality with WC specimens). So obviously one day she gave birth to more or less 30 pedelings - obviously, totally unexpected on my part (I wasn't aware that she was gravid for that I wasn't even aware of the sex) so, obviously again, the holes I've drilled in the enclosure, holes that were perfect for housing a juve/adult 'pede specimen, were too damn big for already unruly pedelings 

But still, I've managed to caught all of those. Yeah, that was exactly what I believed. Until one day, when, for a mix of luck and coincidence, I've spotted a *now-not-so-anymore-pedeling* 'pede crawling out of my main door, directed to the garden 

In sum, for make a long story short:

1) The 'pedeling managed to eat, molt, so therefore grow, *all alone*. This honestly had me doubt a bit about all of the stuff I've heard previously during years about 'pedes being "delicate" or "prone to dehydrate" etc

2) He/she remained in full 'Ninja mode' all the time.

3) Not even my cats spotted him/her, and my cats are skilled hunters.

4) No contact whatsoever with me. Not even once.

Truth is, there's a multitude of place for hide, for a 'pede. And this talking about a room only, so go figure an entire house.

This for saying also that, IMO, at the end of the day, they aren't anyway so "defensive" either that will ambush/chase you etc hope this may give you a bit of solace.

I wish you good luck, anyway 

As for me... still today I'm asking to myself: "What if that 'pedeling escaped wasn't the only one?" ih ih ih

Reactions: Like 3 | Funny 1


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## Mslinger (Apr 14, 2019)

No luck with leaving wet sphagnum moss in dark planting containers all over...yet.
It could have gotten into one of my scorpion enclosures. 
I didn’t want to tear through they’re housing, but I probably should just to be safe.
They are just getting used to it. 
I live in Alaska and it’s dry and cold. 
Not many places it could or would want to go. But animals can always surprise you.


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## Scoly (Apr 15, 2019)

Mslinger said:


> Thanks that’s really good advice too.
> I didn’t think to close the room off but it seems like the obvious solution,
> I’ll do that. Yes I have small children at home, no pets.


You are approaching this all wrong.

You probably have a S.dehaani, not an S.subspinipes (brown body? yellow legs? red antennae? $25 from local pet shop?) A bite from that will put a small child in a state of delirium from the pain, and you'll need to rush them to the nearest hospital. 

You do not need traps. You need to send your kids to stay with a relative, and turn your house upside down until you find that centipede, then sell it and not buy another one until you kids are teenagers.

------------------------

Dehaani have a very, very serious bite (as do subspinipes for that matter). Many adults bitten by a dehaani opt for a trip to hospital because of the pain, and small children are at serious risk. It's unlikely to be life threatening, but that does not mean it is not serious. Kids who get bitten by species like this end up going to hospital and staying for days (To other people reading this, please do not kick off a debate about venom potency, how many bites you've take, or your view on whether the fatalities were due to secondary infection etc... this has been debated ad nauseaum, all the OP needs to know is that a bite from a dehaani is "serious" for a small child - I think we can all agree on that)

The problem, as you're finding out from the posts above, is that they are incredibly difficult to find, and tend to show up near feet or in beds, and tend to bite. In their native habitat find them in their beds, in their shoes, in dirty clothes on the floor etc...

If I had a dehaani unaccounted for in my house, I would not let small children stay until it was accounted for. In fact, I don't think people should be allowed to keep dehaanis in a home with small kids. I'm not against all dangerous animals, but centipedes are just too damn good at escaping, too damn hard to find, and too damn likely to show up in the wrong place, and that combination is what makes them unsuitable.

In the meantime, or if you won't/cant follow my advice:

Check all beds thoroughly before putting kids to sleep
Check all shoes and clothes before putting them on
Check school bags/hand bags 
No walking to the toilet barefoot at night for the kids
Make sure the pede can't climb up into their beds - which is likely impossible unless you have metal fame bunk beds (now you know why people prefer hammocks in the tropics!) 
Don't let the kids rummage through toy boxes or play in rooms that you haven't fully checked.
Also, don't assume your pede is lying low. Escapees have been found on ceilings and above cupboards.

I have to head out now, will pick up this thread when I get back.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Mslinger (Apr 15, 2019)

Scoly said:


> You are approaching this all wrong.
> 
> You probably have a S.dehaani, not an S.subspinipes (brown body? yellow legs? red antennae? $25 from local pet shop?) A bite from that will put a small child in a state of delirium from the pain, and you'll need to rush them to the nearest hospital.
> 
> ...


Wow Now I’m having bad anxieties. 
Damn...


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## Mslinger (Apr 15, 2019)

Scoly said:


> You are approaching this all wrong.
> 
> You probably have a S.dehaani, not an S.subspinipes (brown body? yellow legs? red antennae? $25 from local pet shop?) A bite from that will put a small child in a state of delirium from the pain, and you'll need to rush them to the nearest hospital.
> 
> ...


Yes damn it looks like that S.dehaani. 
FML

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Scoly (Apr 15, 2019)

Mslinger said:


> Yes damn it looks like that S.dehaani.
> FML


S.dehaani get labelled as S.subspinipes all the time, but that's the least of your worries now. If you're not able to drop the kids off elsewhere, which I full appreciate is not entirely easy, you may want to create a safe zone where they can be. Just pick whatever room is easiest to empty out so you can be sure it's not in there, put something in place that stops the centipede from getting in under or over the door, and check everything that goes back in. The kids can stay there while you go through the rest of the house, starting with where your pets were. The less stuff in the safe room, the more sure you can be that it is safe. 

Another situation you want to avoid is not finding it at all, even if it is dead or out of the house, as it could survive for weeks or months if it finds somewhere warm enough. I've had 2 escapes that I never found (much smaller and less dangerous specimens) and it puts you on edge for a month or two. In that light, you may want to think about sealing exits, e.g. behind the kitchen sink, or the toilet. What kind of home is it? What kind of floor do you have?

Consider using humane mouse traps with some sardine in there, or if the centipede is too big to set them off, and the situation is desperate, real mouse traps. I'm going to get a lot of hate for that, but this is what happens when a dangerous wild animal escapes and becomes a threat to people, whether its a chimp that broke out from a zoo, or a dehaani in a house with small children: you try to catch it safely, but if you can't catch it and can't control the threat, then you have to resort to taking the animal's life.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Chris LXXIX (Apr 15, 2019)

Mslinger said:


> Wow Now I’m having bad anxieties.
> Damn...


You are taking this issue (a crappy one, I know, my man) with the wrong attitude. Have you read my post (yes, I know you read that)? So remain calmer. Freaking calmer. For that there's no point in getting anxiety or else 

Here's a pic, btw, of my 0.1 (the one that gave birth to that unruly pedeling army)

Reactions: Like 1


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## Nicholas Rothstein (Apr 15, 2019)

Where I'm from S. Subspinipes are very common. I've found them everywhere. Assuming that you don't live somewhere that they are common try and look for a place where they are "naturally" found. Higher humidity, dark, warm, moist, etc. Good luck on your search. I've found them in my clothes draws, inside of cabinets with ZERO points of entry besides the front, and my favorite crawling up my leg. 

Never been biten or stung by anything for that matter. But there venom can hurt quite a bit. I bet you can visit any ER here and find at least 1 person that has a centipede bite. Keep you animals locked up, children in open areas where you can watch them (same goes to any elderly people). If someone is bitten, it will be painful. If it becomes overwhelming take them to the ER. If a small child is bitten better be safe than sorry, take them to an ER. If not aggravated the pede shouldn't evenmate you, unless you smell like its food.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Mslinger (Apr 15, 2019)

O


Chris LXXIX said:


> You are taking this issue (a crappy one, I know, my man) with the wrong attitude. Have you read my post (yes, I know you read that)? So remain calmer. Freaking calmer. For that there's no point in getting anxiety or else
> 
> Here's a pic, btw, of my 0.1 (the one that gave birth to that unruly pedeling army)
> 
> View attachment 305668


wow looks like the one I video’d  in Hawaii. Nice


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## Scoly (Apr 16, 2019)

Chris LXXIX said:


> You are taking this issue (a crappy one, I know, my man) with the wrong attitude. Have you read my post (yes, I know you read that)? So remain calmer. Freaking calmer. For that there's no point in getting anxiety or else


Chris, you are really not helping here. Your story doesn't carry any parallels with the OP's situation.

You live in Lombardy, where a tropical centipede can live outside for most of the year. He lives in Alaska, so the pede is not going to head for the garden but stay indoors, which means there is a much higher risk of it coming into contact with people than your situation (read comments from other posters here and elsewhere about escaped centipedes showing up on people's feet) so it's completely different.
He is dealing with an allegedly quite sizeable dehaani, your escapees were subspinipes pedelings.
He has young children in the house, you don't mention that being the case for you.
The health, welfare and maybe even lives (I don't know how young they are or how big the centipede is) of these children are at risk here. You have absolutely no place telling him to relax and take the situation easy, just because you once had a situation which you think is similar but really isn't.

Please, for everyone's sake, sit this one out.

Reactions: Like 2 | Dislike 1 | Funny 1


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## Chris LXXIX (Apr 16, 2019)

Scoly said:


> You have absolutely no place telling him to relax and take the situation easy


The "You have" and etc kind of "suggestions".

Really? No, sorry. That's not how things works with me. In general I'm the only one that decide what I can, or can't, say.

That was exactly my advice, and if you don't like that, well... I will sleep nicely even this night, eh 

I understand that his situation is pretty serious, but it's not my fault if the 'pede escaped. It's not my fault if the 'pede, incredibly venomous, escaped in a house where there's little childrens living.

My point to @Mslinger was/is: keep searching, always, but don't let anxiety, or nervous situations triggered by that (like maybe arguing etc) _enter_, taking the upper hand, for that those (however understandable) feelings *never helps* in those kind of situations.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Mslinger (Apr 16, 2019)

Scoly said:


> Chris, you are really not helping here. Your story doesn't carry any parallels with the OP's situation.
> 
> You live in Lombardy, where a tropical centipede can live outside for most of the year. He lives in Alaska, so the pede is not going to head for the garden but stay indoors, which means there is a much higher risk of it coming into contact with people than your situation (read comments from other posters here and elsewhere about escaped centipedes showing up on people's feet) so it's completely different.
> He is dealing with an allegedly quite sizeable dehaani, your escapees were subspinipes pedelings.
> ...


My son is 11 and 2 young daughters of 7-5
Still no luck with this thing. I set sticky boards out
I didn’t leave any anchovies out on them yet. This sucks
I have to go to work soon.
Temps are 46 to 31 atm


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## mantisfan101 (Apr 16, 2019)

Guys let’s please focus on finding the centipede. Maybe try leaving some anchovies, catfood(wet maybe) or some other source of protein around could draw it out. I’ve never been in your shoes before but i HAVE had queen ants and a tarantula escape before and these behave somewhat similarly to a centipede. Look in dark and secluded nooks and crannies. Be careful and always have some sort of catch cup or tweezers within your(you as the person) vicinity and always check before and after you leave a room. If you think that there’s a chance that the centipede might be hiding somewhere just check. Most of the time though they always seem to appear in the most random places that tou wouldn’t even expect tbh so keep looking and never give up.

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## Galapoheros (Apr 16, 2019)

I've been messing with these things off and on for 40 years and have had countless ones escape.  I find them 50%+ of the time though, often when not even looking for them.  I've often found them in closets behind things on the floor in there.  Sometimes I get up around 1am with a flashlight and walk along the walls.  I've found at least 3 in my bed.  When they have gotten out, I make sure my bed covers aren't touching the floor.  If you have bathtubs, you can use a towel, have it touching the the floor and drape the other end over into the tub.  Sometimes they will come to the towel, crawl up the towel and drop off into the tub but make sure there is enough going down into the tub so they are confident enough to drop off in there.  If the tub side of the towel is high enough, they will slip on the porcelain tub and so they won't be able to reach it to climb out.  I've found them in the tub drain while taking a shower, they will go down there but won't be able to pass because of the pea trap full of water, so they sometimes hang out in the few inches of drain if they are in the tub, until water starts going down the drain!

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## Mslinger (Apr 16, 2019)

FOUND IT!!!!!!

Reactions: Like 4 | Love 1


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## Mslinger (Apr 16, 2019)

Wife did
In the kids room!
Racing home right now!


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## mantisfan101 (Apr 16, 2019)

Mslinger said:


> FOUND IT!!!!!!


YAAAAAAYYY!
Good for you!!! Congrats(Idk if that’s an appropriate thing to say but it feels right)!!!!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mslinger (Apr 16, 2019)

mantisfan101 said:


> YAAAAAAYYY!
> Good for you!!! Congrats(Idk if that’s an appropriate thing to say but it feels right)!!!!


Thank YOU, and to all who helped walk me through this!!
I am naming him/her - Houdini


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## Mslinger (Apr 16, 2019)

Mslinger said:


> View attachment 305844
> 
> 
> Thank YOU, and to all who helped walk me through this!!
> I am naming him/her - Houdini


Poor thing got on a sticky mat and it was difficult to pull her off, had to spray her down with olive oil....then wash her off with water. She was unharmed*


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## Mslinger (Apr 16, 2019)

Disappeared, under moss and suffered ptsd as I checked the inclosure again...lol


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## Mslinger (Apr 16, 2019)

Mslinger said:


> Disappeared, under moss and suffered ptsd as I checked the inclosure again...lol


Wow....so relieved. CASE CLOSED...hopefully
Once again a very sincere thank you to everyone who jumped onboard this nightmare situation.  I am happy to be a part of this great and knowledgeable community.


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## NYAN (Apr 17, 2019)

Mslinger said:


> Disappeared, under moss and suffered ptsd as I checked the inclosure again...lol



Great. Now go online and buy a 20QT gasket seal sterlite tub. I use those for my Pedes and haven’t had escapes.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Mslinger (Apr 17, 2019)

NYAN said:


> Great. Now go online and buy a 20QT gasket seal sterlite tub. I use those for my Pedes and haven’t had escapes.


Ok gasket sealed sterlite tub (check)
Amazon? I’ll look thanks!


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## lostbrane (Apr 17, 2019)

Target usually has them in stock for cheap if one is close by.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mslinger (Apr 17, 2019)

Ya I just saw some for $8.99 at Target
Near by


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## vyadha (Apr 17, 2019)

https://www.containerstore.com/s/limited-time-only/clear-weathertight-totes/1d?productId=10026213

These are pretty nice. Really clear too

Reactions: Like 1


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## Scoly (Apr 17, 2019)

I'm really glad you found it and with no incident involving children! 

However, I'm going to reiterate my advice to get rid of it, and replace it with a less dangerous species until your children are older, here's why:

There is _always_ a chance of escape - despite the best of lids. My personal escape history:

My last "escape" happened during feeding: I spent too long (about 1 min) fishing for the right dubia in the colony while the pede enclosure's lid was open, and the 9" S.alternans calmly walked out and along the lids of the other enclosures. I heard the noise, saw it, and quickly caught it. Had it walked the other direction it would have found a blanket which would have allowed it to silently make its way to the floor. I would have assumed it was under its bark, thrown in the dubia, and closed the lid.
The escape before that was from a 6 bolt lid (over-engineered because I was so paranoid about escapes) which turns out had a design flaw in that if a corner bolt doesn't click it actually creates a gap. I don't know how many times I shut the lid leaving the gap before that time, but the last time I did, a 6" S.cingulata got out and was never found again.
The one before that (a juvenile S.subspinipes) was totally unexplained - it simply wasn't in its tub and I have no idea how long for.
The one before that (a undetermined  5" sp from Florida) was in a kritter keeper, with either the hatch improperly closed, or it forced its way.
And that's just the centipedes, I have had tarantulas escape too (no scorpions) but centipedes are the highest risk. Because of their body shape, able to escape from enclosures which would be safe for other animals, and will cover more distance, both generally, and in their quest to find somewhere damp and warm - increasing chance of contact. They also hide really well, meaning they stay on the loose for longer - further increasing the chance of contact. Therefore, centipedes have an overall much higher combined risk of an escape resulting in a bite, than the various spiders, snakes or scorpions we keep.

The danger to your children is very real, and is the main concern in this whole story, but there are secondary dangers:

If it had escaped to your neighbours, they could put in a complaint, or maybe even sue you or get you evicted if you rent etc...

If one of your children had been bitten, or the centipede had been found by a neighbour, this could end up in the news. Tabloids love a good creepy crawly story and will put every inch of spin on it. "Father of 3 let deadly centipede escape". This kind of thing can create problems for your family at school. I don't know what the bullying is like where you live, but having your papa appear in the tabloids is usually bad news for the kids.

But the widest reaching problem is the attention this gets from the authorities. Most law makers and politicians probably never spare much thought to whether people should be allowed to keep such pets. All it takes is one tabloid sensation story for politicians in a country, or even just a state, to outlaw these animals altogether. Most countries ban certain animals, and in most cases it is done by genus or family. 90% of the centipedes we keep are from the genus Scolopendra, so the chances are that any ban would apply to the whole genus. They are not going to fuss over losing at most a couple of hundred votes.

A lot of people in the hobby take a pop at handling for the very same reason: "One accident that gets media attentions, and the hobby gets shut down" etc... But serious media attention (and subsequently political attention) is far more likely to arise from an escaped S.dehaani in a house with small children, than with a teenager doing some handling (it typically involves a safer species, and no young children). There's plenty outrage (rightly or wrongly) over handling, with many Facebook groups banning photos of that - but I don't see the same outrage about keeping highly venomous centipedes in homes with young children, and that doesn't add up.

@Mslinger please do not take this as a personal attack on you, it's not! I'm really glad your situation ended well but I'm sure you appreciate just how easily it could have ended badly. No one can tell you what to do with your animal, but I think this hobby needs a serious discussion about this issue. I'd start it in a different thread but then it would just feel passively aimed at you, which its not.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Mslinger (Apr 17, 2019)

Scoly said:


> I'm really glad you found it and with no incident involving children!
> 
> However, I'm going to reiterate my advice to get rid of it, and replace it with a less dangerous species until your children are older, here's why:
> 
> ...


Yeah I plan on getting her another home, I had my reservations on getting it in the 1st place.
And I did think it was of another subspecies.

Reactions: Dislike 1 | Funny 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Scoly (Apr 17, 2019)

Mslinger said:


> Yeah I plan on getting her another home, I had my reservations on getting it in the 1st place.
> And I did think it was of another subspecies.


It's just unfortunate that S.dehaani are the cheapest and most commonly available centipede, both in the US and Europe. If you're in the states you should be able to get S.polymorpha quite easily, which although nowhere near as impressive are still "giant" centipedes - with full on centipede behaviour. 

And if you get 4-5 then your chance of seeing them active (which is what its all about) are that much improved. In Europe people go out of their way to get their hands on S.polmorpha seeing as it's quite rare. In fact a lot of keepers get hooked on smaller species as the need for size fades away.

Reactions: Like 1


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## NYAN (Apr 17, 2019)

Scoly said:


> If you're in the states you should be able to get S.polymorpha quite easily, which although nowhere near as impressive are still "giant" centipedes - with full on centipede behaviour.


They are in Alaska also. People don’t ship there’s usually.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 2


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## Mslinger (Apr 17, 2019)

NYAN said:


> They are in Alaska also. People don’t ship there’s usually.


Exactly 
Shipping is a issue to AK
A polymorpha is a fine size for me. 
I used to catch them in Hawaii 
And in California.


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## NYAN (Apr 17, 2019)

Mslinger said:


> I used to catch them in Hawaii
> And in California.


Hawaii has subspinipes

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mslinger (Apr 17, 2019)

NYAN said:


> Hawaii has subspinipes


I meant to make that correction, right.


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## Mslinger (Apr 17, 2019)

I have 1 flag tail (Alipes multicostis) also.
Stays out in the open for the most part doesn’t hide. Doesn’t seem too happy with his inclosure, I dunno.
Eats on occasion.


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## Nicholas Rothstein (Apr 18, 2019)

NYAN said:


> Hawaii has subspinipes


That may be the most common species but we have other scolopendra.


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## Mslinger (Apr 18, 2019)

Nicholas Rothstein said:


> That may be the most common species but we have other scolopendra.


I’m not well educated on the number of variant species in Hawaii, but that’s cool that there are more.
The one I caught had to have been subspinipes imo. It was greenish and a decent size, I’ll try to find a pic of it.


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## Nicholas Rothstein (Apr 18, 2019)

Mslinger said:


> I’m not well educated on the number of variant species in Hawaii, but that’s cool that there are more.
> The one I caught had to have been subspinipes imo. It was greenish and a decent size, I’ll try to find a pic of it.


Yeah I'm 90% sure the other species are not native. I've seen ones that have leaf/feather looking hind legs and ones with blue and white hind legs.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mslinger (Apr 18, 2019)

Nicholas Rothstein said:


> Yeah I'm 90% sure the other species are not native. I've seen ones that have leaf/feather looking hind legs and ones with blue and white hind legs.





Nicholas Rothstein said:


> Yeah I'm 90% sure the other species are not native. I've seen ones that have leaf/feather looking hind legs and ones with blue and white hind legs.


Here’s a pic of the one I caught in Kona. Feisty,
As I filmed him he picked up a cockroach.


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## Mslinger (Apr 18, 2019)

Well non native species do well with really no other predators to deal with. 
This was supposedly caught in Hawaii 
But the background trees don’t look right.


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## NYAN (Apr 18, 2019)

Nicholas Rothstein said:


> That may be the most common species but we have other scolopendra.


Can you link me some evidence that supports this? From my knowledge  its only subspinipes in the genus  Scolopendra


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## Mslinger (Apr 18, 2019)

NYAN said:


> Can you link me some evidence that supports this? From my knowledge  its only subspinipes in the genus  Scolopendra


*MECISTOCEPHALUS MAXILLARIS*
*And *
*LETHOBIUS SP
Are the other “known” species.
*


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## Mslinger (Apr 18, 2019)

Mslinger said:


> *MECISTOCEPHALUS MAXILLARIS*
> *And *
> *LETHOBIUS SP*
> *Are the other “known” species.*


According to Sandwich isle pest control.


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## Mslinger (Apr 18, 2019)

TBH
Animals can be native, or introduced without notice of any “official authority” to say yay or nay. 
Even if you live there you may not come across a particular species, even if you look.


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## Nicholas Rothstein (Apr 18, 2019)

NYAN said:


> Can you link me some evidence that supports this? From my knowledge  its only subspinipes in the genus  Scolopendra


When I get hone today I'll look through my photos, a couple pictures are from friends and a few from me.


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## Mslinger (Apr 18, 2019)

Nicholas Rothstein said:


> When I get hone today I'll look through my photos, a couple pictures are from friends and a few from me.


I think he’s looking for scientific evidence, from a recognized authority on the species.


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## NYAN (Apr 18, 2019)

Mslinger said:


> I think he’s looking for scientific evidence, from a recognized authority on the species.


Pics are fine in this case also.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Scoly (Apr 21, 2019)

Mslinger said:


> Well non native species do well with really no other predators to deal with.
> This was supposedly caught in Hawaii
> But the background trees don’t look right.


That photo is from somewhere in Asia, and clearly involves some forced perspective.

As for the issue of S.subspinipes being "invasive" to Hawaii, I think it's not as clear cut as we think. 

Yes S.subspinipes (like S.morsitans) has been introduced by man to areas far from its natural range. E.g. both have been found on various Caribbean islands, whereas S.subspinipes originates from S.E Asia, and S.moristans we believe to originate from Africa (though it is well established in Australia and the Malay archipelago).

But here's another thing to consider: centipedes like to hide in dead logs, 100's of which wash out to sea each year to become driftwood. I have even found S.cingulata on driftwood on the actual beach, ready to float away. I once calculated that a piece of driftwood could travel from Malay archipelago to South America on the Equatorial counter current in as little as 12 weeks. That's the full pacific, the islands in between would be reached in far less time). My calculations were probably not all that correct, but the point is that driftwood from Malay archipelago can easily reach Hawaii in a time span which a centipede tucked deep into a large bit of driftwood could survive. So I would expect 100's if not 1000's of S.E. Asian centipedes to have been carried over the oceans to Hawaii in the few millennia those currents have been in place.

In fact, I have a suspicion that the genus Scolopendra originated in S.E Asia and spread to the rest of the world from there, though the Americas were obviously conquered some time ago.

Reactions: Like 1


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## vyadha (Apr 21, 2019)

What is it that leads you to suspect that scolopendra is originally from Asia?


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## Scoly (Apr 21, 2019)

vyadha said:


> What is it that leads you to suspect that scolopendra is originally from Asia?


First of all note that I said "I suspect" - I am not an expert, nor do I have anything more than a hunch, so please bear that in mind with what follows 

The first reason I suspect SE Asia is the original home of the genus Scolopendra is down variety of species and subspecies found there compared to other tropical regions. South America, India, Central Africa, Northern Autralia etc... don't have the same variety of Scolopendra. Other genera (Ehtmostigmus, Cormocephalus yes) but not Scolopendra. Also, it is only in SE Asia that we have a truly arboreal species (S.subcrustalis) and a few semi-aquatic species (S.paradoxa, S.cataracta). Adaptation into edge niches takes time.

The second reason is that it seems that genus Scolopendra has spread into Africa via Eurasia through S.cingulata in the Middle East, then S.morstians down East Africa. It just strikes me as odd that Sub-Saharan Africa does not have any large Scolopendra, only Ethmostigmus, which are slower growing, and don't readily reach the sizes which Scolopendra in the Americas and Asia do. My theory on that is that genus Ethmostigmus had dominion over Africa until the more advanced Scolopendra genus crept in via Eurasia, but it did so via small growing highly adaptable species (mainly S.morsitans) which have not yet branched out into larger species which the likes of the Congo basin could certainly support.

As mentioned above, it is entirely feasible that the genus spread to South America by driftwood, although the opposite is also a possibility. 

I wasn't sure how quickly new species could evolve, and we're used to thinking that species take 1000's or millions of years to separate but it can actually happen much quicker, as you may gather from this snippet:

"A small handful of European mice deposited on the island of Madeira some 600 years ago have now evolved into at least six different species. The island is very rocky and the mice became isolated into different niches. The original species had 40 chromosomes, but the new populations have anywhere between 22-30 chromosomes. They haven't lost DNA, but rather, some chromosomes have fused together over time and so the mice can now only breed with others with the same number of chromosomes, making each group a separate species."

But as I'm thinking this through, I realise there's a few flaws. The first is the issue of which Dawkins compares to "scaffolding": when you see an impressive stone bridge, it's impossible to understand how the stoned were able to meet up in the middle without falling in - until you grasp that this was made possible thanks to structures which are long since gone. And so it is with species: we can't understand how giraffes got their long necks because there are no mid-length neck giraffes around to spot as an immediate link (simply because they have all disappeared).

This analogy helps us understand morphology, but also works for ecology. I am basing my hunch on the prevalence of Scolopendra in SE Asia and it's poor representation in Africa, but who's not to say it originated in Africa, and there were arboreal and semi-aquatic species, and the genus spread outwards from Africa, but due to the massive climate change in Africa over the past few million years (which led to us) perhaps all the various Scolopendra weren't able to keep up and only Ethmostigmus, Cormocephalus were able to retain a foothold?

So I'd say my theory is plausible, but the logic behind it is flawed because a) we haven't found all that is to be found and b) some of it may never be found.

Reactions: Like 1


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## vyadha (Apr 21, 2019)

The niche adaptation theory is pretty cool. Not to mention climate change over eons. Its just really fun to speculate on.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Nicholas Rothstein (Apr 23, 2019)

NYAN said:


> Pics are fine in this case also.


I couldn't find my pictures, it must be on my old drive. But I can assure you there are other scolopendra species here. Next time i go hunting I'll try to find one. As I said they are much less common.


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## Mslinger (Apr 23, 2019)

Nicholas Rothstein said:


> I couldn't find my pictures, it must be on my old drive. But I can assure you there are other scolopendra species here. Next time i go hunting I'll try to find one. As I said they are much less common.


Next time I’m in Hawaii I’m going to spend some time looking for various species


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## Nicholas Rothstein (Apr 23, 2019)

Mslinger said:


> Next time I’m in Hawaii I’m going to spend some time looking for various species


I've found them more often when I visit family on the islands of Maui and Hawaii. On Oahu I've seen them a few times.


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## Bill S (Apr 23, 2019)

Scoly said:


> The first reason I suspect SE Asia is the original home of the genus Scolopendra is down variety of species and subspecies found there compared to other tropical regions......


Diversification can occur far from the original source as animals (or plants) adapt to selective pressures in new environments.  For example - look at what happened to finches in the Galapagos Islands.  Not their point of origin, but diversified to meet new challenges.

A much better way to establish point of origin would be through phylogenetics.  In DNA analysis of existing species in any group cladistics can show which species or species groups are more basal and which are more recently evolved.  What you want to find is which are the more basal groups (the stock from which other groups split off in the evolutionary process)and where they may have come from.  If all the more basal groups are from one region, there's a much greater chance that region is where the "original home" was.  But keep in mind that centipedes are of ancient lineage - they came into being long before the continents that we recognize today did.  In other words, they existed before Asia and North America did.  Their "original home" was on a continent, supercontinent or land mass that has broken up, drifted and changed.  The best you can hope for in finding the "original home" is to identify a region that "has become "part of the modern continent of ...." or "area that is now included in portions of the continents ......".

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## NukingTheFridge (Apr 25, 2019)

@Mslinger How did the wife take it? I am still trying to get mine to accept my wish for getting a centipede. Should i manage to do so and it got loose i strongly suspect it would be my head on a pike

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Scoly (Apr 25, 2019)

Bill S said:


> Diversification can occur far from the original source as animals (or plants) adapt to selective pressures in new environments.  For example - look at what happened to finches in the Galapagos Islands.  Not their point of origin, but diversified to meet new challenges.
> 
> A much better way to establish point of origin would be through phylogenetics.  In DNA analysis of existing species in any group cladistics can show which species or species groups are more basal and which are more recently evolved.  What you want to find is which are the more basal groups (the stock from which other groups split off in the evolutionary process)and where they may have come from.  If all the more basal groups are from one region, there's a much greater chance that region is where the "original home" was.  But keep in mind that centipedes are of ancient lineage - they came into being long before the continents that we recognize today did.  In other words, they existed before Asia and North America did.  Their "original home" was on a continent, supercontinent or land mass that has broken up, drifted and changed.  The best you can hope for in finding the "original home" is to identify a region that "has become "part of the modern continent of ...." or "area that is now included in portions of the continents ......".


Yes, you're absolutely right, DNA analysis can provide us with a much clearer picture than any other means.

As for centipedes being around before the continents split, of course, at least in some recognisable form. What I'm not sure about is where sections of the phylogenetic tree, such as genus Scolopendra or Ethmostigmus, stretch that far back in time or if they are more recent. I simply do not know. The reason I suspect Scolopendra is more recent is because of its poor representation in Africa and Australia, and the fact that it is plausible that the African Scolopendra branched out from Scolopendra cingulata, which in turn could only have colonised the Mediterranean with its myriad permutations after the last ice age. But yes, until we get DNA analysis this is pure speculation.


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## Scoly (Apr 25, 2019)

@Bill S  Interesting that you mention the finches of the Galapagos, as it was an article on that which changed my (and probably many other people's) understanding of how genes work and what they are capable.

One fun exercise to play is to imagine that we could engineer creatures to colonise new planets, and think of what we could do to improve their chances, within the realms of possibility. Many of the ideas you'd come up with are in fact exactly how it currently happens.

Sending creatures whose genes are capable of producing not just offspring with variation in gradual features (such as beak size) but also for many distinct permutations (like the colour patterns of eyelash vipers) even if this means lugging around a massive was of unused DNA in each cell would be a great improvement over a design where 100% of the DNA is expressed, and adaptation can only happen from random mutations, 99% of which would likely be fatal to the animal.

Of course, you can't fit out an animal with bits of fish, insect and mammal because those are vastly different systems, and parts need to operate together, so you'd have to factor in things which encourage cohesion of features and balance that against the variability.

It's almost like pre-loaded evolution: instead of DNA relying on replication errors which cause God knows what changes in the animal, the DNA instead has a host of variable settings, the permutations of which almost always produce viable animals (perhaps not fit, but at least functional), allowing evolution to happen without waiting for chance mutations (which are far more likely to be fatal than useful). What's more is that the level of variability itself is controlled by the genes, so it will end up being optimum (e.g. produce 98% of offspring the same, and 2% weirdos).

Of course, mutations still happen. And in fact, mutations are just as likely to happen in the large strands of inactive DNA as they are in active DNA, so only having a small amount expressed actually hides (and to an extent) protects against the effect of most mutations.


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## Bill S (Apr 26, 2019)

Scoly said:


> As for centipedes being around before the continents split, of course, at least in some recognisable form. What I'm not sure about is where sections of the phylogenetic tree, such as genus Scolopendra or Ethmostigmus, stretch that far back in time or if they are more recent. I simply do not know. The reason I suspect Scolopendra is more recent is because of its poor representation in Africa and Australia, and the fact that it is plausible that the African Scolopendra branched out from Scolopendra cingulata, which in turn could only have colonised the Mediterranean with its myriad permutations after the last ice age. But yes, until we get DNA analysis this is pure speculation.


Some groups of centipedes that we are familiar with today (Scutigeromorpha) go back in the fossil record 416 million years.  Scolopendromorpha back to the upper Carboniferous (310 to 280 million years ago).  Continents have moved and changed since then.  One article you may enjoy touches on some of this: http://ambre.jaune.free.fr/Chilopoda_The_fossil_history.pdf

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## Mslinger (Apr 26, 2019)

NukingTheFridge said:


> @Mslinger How did the wife take it? I am still trying to get mine to accept my wish for getting a centipede. Should i manage to do so and it got loose i strongly suspect it would be my head on a pike


Well ya she was pissed...lol 
But she got over it. I always say it’s better to ask for forgiveness than for permission

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Mslinger (Apr 26, 2019)

Bill S said:


> Some groups of centipedes that we are familiar with today (Scutigeromorpha) go back in the fossil record 416 million years.  Scolopendromorpha back to the upper Carboniferous (310 to 280 million years ago).  Continents have moved and changed since then.  One article you may enjoy touches on some of this: http://ambre.jaune.free.fr/Chilopoda_The_fossil_history.pdf


Thanks for that. I love reading articles like these.


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