# bumblebee x spider or bumblebee x bumblebee?



## thebugfreak (May 18, 2012)

hello. im thinking of getting a spider female or a bumblebee female to breed to my bumblebee male. its for just a personal goal ive set up for myself not really looking to sell. ill probably keep all the offspring. but i was wondering what that chances you would get if you bred it to a spider, or another bumblebee. wouldnt breeding it to another bumblebee produce much of the same pythons since both should have around the same alleles? i'm looking for more variety.


----------



## Entomancer (May 18, 2012)

I'm pretty sure you're talking about Ball/Royal Pythons, but you didn't make that clear; when I read the thread title I almost thought you were talking about breeding freshwater shrimp. Also not everyone here owns Ball pythons, nevermind breeds them. 

But your best bet, IMO, would be to talk to Jmugleston about this. He...breeds a lot of things.


----------



## Beardo (May 19, 2012)

Any time you breed spider to spider (which is what a Bumblebee is, a Pastel x Spider cross) you end up with disfigured, dead babies. The spider gene is a deformity IMO and personally I hate that they have been propogated so much......if you want an interesting species to breed, theres plenty of others out there that are more fulfilling than mutant ball pythons (unless you enjoy making neurologically deficinent retarded snakes).


----------



## bchbum11 (May 19, 2012)

Google ball python spinning. It will give you an overview of the neurological issues that spiders have. The trait is co-dominant, and as Beardo stated is lethal to any animal that is homozygous for it. I could be off, but I think that 1/4 of any babies produced by a spider/bee or bee/bee pairing would be projected to be still born. If you want to breed your bee, I'd recommend getting a pastel or a super pastel. Look into spinning first though. I don't look down at people who breed spiders at all, but will never produce them myself. That's just a personal decision based off researching and seeing the possibility of what can hatch, and knowing that I would have a really hard time culling any animals that were on the far end of the spectrum for symptoms. From what i've read/seen, most spiders live relatively healthy lives, but to me it just isn't worth the risk. Not with so many other stunning morphs out there.


----------



## Bazzgazm (May 19, 2012)

a pastel female can be pretty pricey.....if it were mine... I'd get just a simple pastel female and shoot for super pastel x spider. A killer bee would be the best you could hope for... now.. if you wanna get something else, that would tie in well, you could always look for a female Pastel X Pinstripe... and hope for a killer blast....

IF you're dumping female bumblebee money, may want to check out pastel pinstripe... or lemon blast.


----------



## Nanotrev (May 20, 2012)

I should make note to tell the offspring of my two spiders this. Babies are still nice and healthy.

However, in relation to the topic, I would definitely get another bumblebee if you're looking to get one of the two. You'll end up with much greater variety. Check out www.worldofballpythons.com and toy with their genetics calculator or take a visit to http://ball-pythons.net and throw some questions out to those guys. They really know their stuff.


----------



## Bazzgazm (May 20, 2012)

The main problems with spider x spider is the wobble, which is a neurological issue... it is not an every case thing.. but why breed 2 spider anythings? The possibility is still the same. why not bring something more onto the table.... the spider gene x pinstripe gene, and the chance of a super pastel.... it would be about the same price... and would definitely be a better option than another bumblebee.


----------



## Beardo (May 21, 2012)

Bazzgazm said:


> The main problems with spider x spider is the wobble, which is a neurological issue... it is not an every case thing.. but why breed 2 spider anythings? The possibility is still the same. why not bring something more onto the table.... the spider gene x pinstripe gene, and the chance of a super pastel.... it would be about the same price... and would definitely be a better option than another bumblebee.


No, the issue with breeding spider x spider is that the babies die inside the egg before they ever hatch.....regular spiders have major neurological issues (even if they don't display it, it can pop up after YEARS and even if they don't show it the gene is still there and their offspring could be major spinners).....why do you think theres no such thing as a Super Spider? There are "super" forms of just about every codom morph out there, except Spiders because its not possible to produce one.....the gene is too volatile.


----------



## Hornets inverts (May 22, 2012)

So from what i gather this spider mutation is not unlike the jaguar mutation in Morelia? Co-dom morph, Hets showing neuro conditions, homo's dead in egg, very rarely hatching (dont think i've heard of one surviving long out of the egg though)


----------



## Nanotrev (May 22, 2012)

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?105331-spider-x-spider

This seems to be a good thread for people here. Right now, spider ball pythons are considered a *dominant* morph. Kevin of NERD reptiles has tried and tried to create a "super spider" and has admitted that he has failed. No report of any dead super spiders were made. Why? Most likely because there probably weren't any. If there were they'd have been in the egg for breeders to see. Click on the following website for a little information regarding spiders.

http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/spider/

http://newenglandreptile.com/nerd/index.php/Ball-Python-Base-Morphs/spider.html


We already know that super womas exist but they _are_ a lethal gene. We know that because some offspring make it out of the egg but die later. Other eggs have been cut open to reveal dead super womas inside.

If you want to get a 'real' answer try sending an e-mail to either Brian from BHB Reptiles or to Kevin's office of NERD. Overall, I do not like the wobble spiders sometimes exhibit though it varies from individual to individual. Soon, I'm going to begin a project with cinnamon ball pythons and some lesser ball pythons as well. If you don't like spider morphs then there are plenty more morphs to breed though I see spiders remaining a staple of ball python morphs.


----------

