# Damon variegatus male and female sex! :-P



## PeriplanetaAmer

Well, I have a pair of adult D. variegatus and this evening I put them together. The male touched many times the female body but she reject him. After that, I left them alone, more "private"  and 2-3 hours late i found the male walking out of the cork and the female was behind a "drop", I think it was the structure where the sperm is guarded (I don´t know the english word, sorry)

   Male:




   Female:



   The strange drop:


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## DJ_AlMighty_247

PeriplanetaAmer said:


> I think it was the structure where the sperm is guarded


Hey!

It looks like this (spermatophore):


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## PeriplanetaAmer

Hi!

   Yes, I think that it´s a spermatophore. But the female take it into her body so I only can see the mark of it. I hope to have some babies .

   Best regards,
   Javier.


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## dtknow

The spermatophore DJ posted is empty.

I doubt what you posted is a spermatophore.


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## PeriplanetaAmer

I have good news!!!:} :



   I left them alone all night and this morning I found it.

   Best regards,
   Javier.


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## PeriplanetaAmer

I have good news!!!:} :



   I left them alone all night and this morning I found it.

   Best regards,
   Javier.


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## Carlos.e

Yeah!
Eventually it occured!, good to see you Peri, in this forum.
Hehe, my male isn't the bravest one, but it isn't bad at work  
Well, now we can only wait, hoping to see the eggs in the female's abdomen.


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## Strubles

congratulations man!

i´d love to have one of this...but i´m from brazil :wall: 

How do you identified the sexual dimorphism of them? Is it a rule of all amblipigis?


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## M.F.Bagaturov

Hi!

Anyone can explane me?
I see spermathophore on the pic but I can see two females and no males - WTAT'S WRONG WITH ME???

The problem is the sexual dimorphism in Damon spp. is clearly visible in adults by the comparison of the lenght of the femur of pedipalp and walking leg I.
In males the lenght of femur of the pedipalp has exceeded the lenght of the femur of the leg.
On the pic labeled "male" there's no any sign of the male of the specimen depicted to me.

The above described dimorphism is clearly seen on my pic below, male at the front.


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## Banshee05

hello,
you are totally right, but did you also read that some whip spiders "MIGHT" be abel to mate before they are adult, and store the sperms and reproduce later? i read that some times, i had to look for it where.

but it is clear, that most of "normal" damon diadema/variegatus/longispinatus have elongated pedipals in males, also some euphr. etc. have that.

and btw: are you sure that you have variegatus and not diadema?!?
see here the 2 ventral spines on the pedipal trochanter! 2spines are diadema, if you see just one in your species you have variegatus!


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## Carlos.e

Hi M.F.Bagaturov, I think my male (it's in the first pic Periplaneta posted), is a sub-adult male, the lenght of the pedipalp is longer than walking leg I. And if there is the spermathophore, and Periplaneta's one is a female, mine must be a male.
There is a pic of my male before being sent to Periplaneta.

Now there are some questions,
-Can they breed if both aren't adults?
-If the answer is afirmative, can female give birth until she molt? Or she stores the sperm and do it after molt?
-What's the time of gestation in this species (Damon variegata and diadema)?

Thanks. Carlos.


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## Banshee05

Hello,


Carlos.e said:


> -Can they breed if both aren't adults?


if i trust literature (i didn't find the papers where i read it till yet, but i hadn't much time) it is possible to mate them before they are adult, yes. for example a damon medius species has size at first reproduction about 20mm, final size between 30 and 40mm



Carlos.e said:


> -If the answer is afirmative, can female give birth until she molt? Or she stores the sperm and do it after molt?


this 100% not, but whip spiders molt after giving birth - so after they are sexual adult, they continue molting after adulthood and live many years. a heterophrynus gorgo (longicornis) for example lived in CB for 7years, and was matured caught in nature, so nearly ~ 10 years in big species



Carlos.e said:


> -What's the time of gestation in this species (Damon variegata and diadema)?


good questions, first i think it is nearly the same time, 
weeks or months after mating, the female produce the egg sac, and then she carrie it some weeks, after the youngs started to prey out... i don't know exactly


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## PeriplanetaAmer

Thanks!

   Well, I think both male (from Carlos) and female (mine) are adults, they are big, about 5 cm lenght.

   The gestation time is about 3-4 weeks I think

   Best regards,
   Javier.


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## M.F.Bagaturov

Hello ALL!



> *Banshee05. *but did you also read that some whip spiders "MIGHT" be abel to mate before they are adult, and store the sperms and reproduce later? i read that some times, i had to look for it where


No, never read about it and this is impossible for tarantulas. But I'd like to red it! Whould be thankfuk if You point me on the paper, thanks!

But if You mean that arachnids (at least, tarantulas) can produce in female smaller of the size then adult size - it is the often case.



> *Banshee05. *are you sure that you have variegatus and not diadema?!?


If You ask me - yes, I Id it I bleive with the same paper You've refering the number of spins in.
*Carlos.e and PeriplanetaAmer*. If spermophore has been produced this is should be male indeed, yes. But look here's the difference clearly seen for the male and a femal. You can also see the difference in structure of the anal sternit in both. That he should be adult but if the phenotype different to what I usually expect looking for the signes of male in amblypygi.
As for the gestation, in my case I 've found her carrying the eggs in her sac over the month ago, so I think it is reffered to 1,5 months till the eggs hutches.


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## Carlos.e

We found another spermathophore in the terrarium...
This reaffirms us that there are a male and a female  

I hope soon we can post pics of the babies


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## Strubles

Does anyone ever seen any case of cannibalism?


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## Carlos.e

Look at this:



















Photos from PeriplanetaAmer.

So, we can say they are adult? 
Or can sub-adult females give birth?


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## Elytra and Antenna

Strubles: Cannibalism in Damon diadema has been observed numerous times and is most common in late instars (it probably occurs just as often in D.variegatus but that species doesn't come from Tanzania and is rarely, if ever, seen in the hobby so 99.99% of people who think they have variegatus have diadema).

Carlos.e: That's an adult female of course but females continue to molt after maturity.


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## crpy

very informative, (but alittle hard to follow) thread:clap:


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## Carlos.e

Photos from PeriplanetaAmer.


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## UrbanJungles

Woo Hoo! Party!!!!!!!

Very Nice, congrats and enjoy!


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## PeriplanetaAmer

Hey Carlos, you stole my photos:} :} :} :} :} :} :} :} 

   Now, the newborns are eating well. I´m keeping them together with enough food.

   Best regards,
   Javier.


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## UrbanJungles

Javier, 
Yo te recomiendo que lo separen despues de un par de meses por son muy agresivo cuando comen.

Buena suerte...son un placer para mantener.

Danny


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## PeriplanetaAmer

Hi!

   I´ll separate them this week end. I´m very busy with them, they´re too many!

   UrbanJungles, escribes muy bien el español .

   Best regards,
   Javier.


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## M.F.Bagaturov

Hi Javier!

Congrats on this whiplings - they're cute. 
I wonder how much of them does Your female produced?

I had a second clutch of this from my single female D. diadema in this year and both are around 25-30 ws'lings. But i've read somewhere the Damon representatives can produce 100+ and D. diadema should be one of the bigest species of the genus...


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## lukatsi

Congrats, they are beautiful 
I have a trio of them, they aren't matured yet, but growing well. By the way, what do you feed the babies with?


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## PeriplanetaAmer

Hello,

   Now, they´re separated:













   Thanks guys! 

   M.F.Bagaturov, there are 36-37 whiplings and, of course, they are very cute! .

   lukatsi, I feed them with roaches: Blatta lateralis (Shelfordella tartara or S. lateralis) and Nauphoeta cirenea, once a week.

   Best regards,
   Javier.


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## bakaichi

is there is the presesnce or spermathophore, does it mean that they have mated ?

or just the male deposit it and depend on weather the femail pick it up or not ?

when first saw there, i was like.@@ are theses the dry version of Hydra.~


hah silly me


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## PeriplanetaAmer

bakaichi said:


> is there is the presesnce or spermathophore, does it mean that they have mated ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, the male and female "dance" and, in the end, he put the spermathophore and the female take the sperma (is it correct?) from it.
> 
> Best regards,
> Javier.
Click to expand...


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## M.F.Bagaturov

Hi Javier!

Thank You very much for info! This time i have the same around 40 specimens and a bit less before. This year i got offsprings two times from one female.
Soon I will post pics of my damonlings


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## bakaichi

PeriplanetaAmer said:


> bakaichi said:
> 
> 
> 
> is there is the presesnce or spermathophore, does it mean that they have mated ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, the male and female "dance" and, in the end, he put the spermathophore and the female take the sperma (is it correct?) from it.
> 
> Best regards,
> Javier.
> 
> 
> 
> than javier~
> 
> ill keep a look out for the matting dance ^^
> Jason
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


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## PeriplanetaAmer

Hello,

   Jason, the matting dance is very difficult to see, they run when you makes any movement. I only see first part off the matting dance, they cut it off and I left them.

   M.F.Bagaturov: two offsprings from one female in one year? Wow, it´s great! Can you post some photos of them?

   Best regards,
   Javier.


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