# Can a tarantula be albino?



## Josh Perry (Sep 17, 2011)

I'm wondering if a tarantula can be albino I've never seen or heard of one. But it seams that almost every animal can produce an albino form. And if tarantulas can not be albino does anyone know why?


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## paassatt (Sep 17, 2011)

I don't think they are capable of having albinism because albinism is by definition the lack of melanin and pigment. I think having exoskeletons precludes them from suffering from that.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## xhexdx (Sep 17, 2011)

paassatt said:


> I don't think they are capable of having albinism because albinism is by definition the lack of melanin and pigment. I think having exoskeletons precludes them from suffering from that.


This is correct, although I believe John Apple has 'albino' Centruroides gracilis.  I think those may be some sort of light color form though, similar to H. incei "gold".

EDIT:  Here's a link to Apple's thread:  http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?161435


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## Josh Perry (Sep 17, 2011)

That intresting so does this also exclude them from being able to have different morphs like how you can breed in reptiles?


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## Amoeba (Sep 17, 2011)

I remember seeing a picture of a WC G rosea that had some really white bristles I can't remember where I saw it.

<EDIT> I found it Scroll down a ways http://www.the-t-store.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=13303


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## paassatt (Sep 17, 2011)

FLAmoeba said:


> I remember seeing a picture of a WC G rosea that had some really white bristles I can't remember where I saw it.
> 
> <EDIT> I found it Scroll down a ways http://www.the-t-store.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=13303


 While the white setae make for a pretty cool looking spider, it doesn't fit the definition of albinism.


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## Amoeba (Sep 17, 2011)

paassatt said:


> While the white setae make for a pretty cool looking spider, it doesn't fit the definition of albinism.


I don't see where I said albino anywhere in my post?


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## paassatt (Sep 17, 2011)

FLAmoeba said:


> I don't see where I said albino anywhere in my post?


You didn't. I was just making the distinction for the OP's sake.


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## Formerphobe (Sep 17, 2011)

I think it is Fartkowski who has an OBT color variant.  Not sure that it would be considered a morph, definitely not an albino.  Beautiful spider!  Reminds me of an orange cream-sicle.


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## Tutone (Oct 13, 2016)

Approximately 15 years ago I saw 2 tarantulas fighting. One was normal and one was in fact an albino.  So yes, they can be. I sat there and watched these 2 go at it for about 10 minutes amazed at what I was seeing. This was just before camera phones, otherwise I would have taken a bazillion pictures. The scene is burned into my brain though.

Reactions: Disagree 3


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## Toxoderidae (Oct 13, 2016)

Tutone said:


> Approximately 15 years ago I saw 2 tarantulas fighting. One was normal and one was in fact an albino.  So yes, they can be. I sat there and watched these 2 go at it for about 10 minutes amazed at what I was seeing. This was just before camera phones, otherwise I would have taken a bazillion pictures. The scene is burned into my brain though.


why did you bring back a 5 year thread?

Reactions: Dislike 1 | Funny 1


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## Matabuey (Oct 13, 2016)

Toxoderidae said:


> why did you bring back a 5 year thread?


You have issues. Go see a psychiatrist.

What's so wrong about commenting on an old thread with relevant information?

Rather than creating new ones, which won't contain posts from members that no longer frequent the forums. Posts which may contain some useful information/opinions.

Reactions: Agree 7


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## 14pokies (Oct 13, 2016)

Tutone said:


> Approximately 15 years ago I saw 2 tarantulas fighting. One was normal and one was in fact an albino.  So yes, they can be. I sat there and watched these 2 go at it for about 10 minutes amazed at what I was seeing. This was just before camera phones, otherwise I would have taken a bazillion pictures. The scene is burned into my brain though.


What state were you in?


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## EulersK (Oct 13, 2016)

Tutone said:


> Approximately 15 years ago I saw 2 tarantulas fighting. One was normal and one was in fact an albino.  So yes, they can be. I sat there and watched these 2 go at it for about 10 minutes amazed at what I was seeing. This was just before camera phones, otherwise I would have taken a bazillion pictures. The scene is burned into my brain though.


No, it wasn't albino. Likely just a color morph. Albino does not mean "white", it means a lack of melanin. 

What you saw was likely either a freshly molted tarantula, a different species, or a color morph. Without pictures or a specimen, it's all hearsay. Given that there is no scientific documentation of true albinism in insects or arachnids, that's about where the argument ends. 

If you have any publications to show true albinism, I'd love to have a read.


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## Misty Day (Oct 13, 2016)

Matabuey said:


> What's so wrong about commenting on an old thread with relevant information?
> 
> Rather than creating new ones, which won't contain posts from members that no longer frequent the forums. Posts which may contain some useful information/opinions.


Exactly. When people start new threads for old topics, they get told to use the search function. But when people actually use the search function, some people wonder why they brought back old threads. Doesn't make any sense.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 4


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## EulersK (Oct 13, 2016)

Misty Day said:


> Exactly. When people start new threads for old topics, they get told to use the search function. But when people actually use the search function, some people wonder why they brought back old threads. Doesn't make any sense.


What's irritating is when someone revives a thread to specifically address another user from years ago. That wasn't the case here, but that's where the general hate comes from I suppose.

Reactions: Like 1


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## KezyGLA (Oct 13, 2016)

I love lamp

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 3 | Clarification Please 2


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## Tutone (Oct 13, 2016)

Sorry for bringing it back from the dead... I was simply looking for pictures of an albino tarantula (I recently told someone else my story of the "albino" due to their recent experience with one) and this thread popped up. So I read and wanted to comment. I am in the north Texas area and there are quite a few sightings of tarantulas in general here.  Sorry, no pictures. Unless you have a pensive and a wand...

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Venom1080 (Oct 13, 2016)

Tutone said:


> Sorry for bringing it back from the dead... I was simply looking for pictures of an albino tarantula (I recently told someone else my story of the "albino" due to their recent experience with one) and this thread popped up. So I read and wanted to comment. I am in the north Texas area and there are quite a few sightings of tarantulas in general here.  Sorry, no pictures. Unless you have a pensive and a wand...


albino tarantulas dont exist, sorry. you probably saw one right after post molt, or one molting and confused it with fighting. The color in ts is caused mainly by the refraction of light by the exoskeleton and not pigments. So traditional albinism is not possible.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## KezyGLA (Oct 13, 2016)

They do exist.


http://www.snopes.com/photos/animals/graphics/albinofurryspider.jpg

Google told me so

Reactions: Funny 6 | Lollipop 1


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## 14pokies (Oct 13, 2016)

EulersK said:


> No, it wasn't albino.Without pictures or a specimen, it's all hearsay. Given that there is no scientific documentation of true albinism in insects or arachnids, that's about where the argument ends.
> 
> If you have any publications to show true albinism, I'd love to have a read.


@viper69 lay some knowledge on him homie! Lol..

Reactions: Like 1 | Clarification Please 1


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## EulersK (Oct 13, 2016)

14pokies said:


> @viper69 lay some knowledge on him homie! Lol..


Does he have a publication on the subject? I wouldn't be surprised, he's brought a lot to light today for me already

Reactions: Agree 1


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## viper69 (Oct 13, 2016)

EulersK said:


> is no scientific documentation of true albinism in insects or arachnids


This is not true.



Venom1080 said:


> albino tarantulas dont exist


A more accurate statement is there is no known albino tarantula. For decades there was no such thing as an albino Burmese python till it was photographed by NatGeo in about 1976 I believe, and if one knows snakes, the rest is history. The same is true for a recently discovered Brazilian Rainbow Boa.

Point is, just because we haven't seen it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist RELATIVELY speaking. There is albinism in insects and variety of other "lower" vertebrates, no reason no to believe there is or wasn't an albino T in the wild. Though of course it would be hard for it survive being of different color 

And, while N. incei Golds, may not be albino, they are both a pattern and color mutation. So albinism isn't that far away IMO.



14pokies said:


> @viper69 lay some knowledge on him homie! Lol..


Will do! 



EulersK said:


> Does he have a publication on the subject? I wouldn't be surprised, he's brought a lot to light today for me already



Correction, publications 

I've actually commented on this before with data. If you google this up you will find evidence of albinism in insects.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1525-142X.2012.00535.x/full

http://ci.nii.ac.jp/naid/110004022280/




AND before you guys say "well that's only insects"....

*Here's an arachnid for you from 1986!! *

http://www.americanarachnology.org/joa_free/joa_v14_n1/joa_v14_p101.pdf

Reactions: Like 2 | Informative 2 | Funny 1 | Award 3


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## 14pokies (Oct 13, 2016)

viper69 said:


> This is not true for at least insects. There is documentation.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks viper those were the links that you shared with me but I couldn't find them..  

Appreciate the info bro!

Reactions: Like 1


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## viper69 (Oct 13, 2016)

14pokies said:


> Thanks viper those were the links that you shared with me but I couldn't find them..
> 
> Appreciate the info bro!


I added a new one this time, for arachnids

Reactions: Like 1


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## 14pokies (Oct 13, 2016)

viper69 said:


> I added a new one this time, for arachnids


Ahh I didn't catch that one.. Its a long read but I downloaded it!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Venom1080 (Oct 13, 2016)

viper69 said:


> A more accurate statement is there is no known albino tarantula. For decades there was no such thing as an albino Burmese python till it was photographed by NatGeo in about 1976 I believe, and if one knows snakes, the rest is history. The same is true for a recently discovered Brazilian Rainbow Boa.
> 
> Point is, just because we haven't seen it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist RELATIVELY speaking. There is albinism in insects and variety of other "lower" vertebrates, no reason no to believe there is or wasn't an albino T in the wild. Though of course it would be hard for it survive being of different color
> 
> And, while N. incei Golds, may not be albino, they are both a pattern and color mutation. So albinism isn't that far away IMO.


hey, im down for a couple albino A sp amazonicas or P metallicas. whites one of my favorite colors in Ts. i hope its just not discovered yet. thanks for the info.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Toxoderidae (Oct 14, 2016)

Venom1080 said:


> hey, im down for a couple albino A sp amazonicas or P metallicas. whites one of my favorite colors in Ts. i hope its just not discovered yet. thanks for the info.


I found two albino mantids quite a few years ago. Had I not smashed that iPod with a hammer/knife until I lit the battery on fire I would show the images I took

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Sarkhan42 (Oct 14, 2016)

Toxoderidae said:


> I found two albino mantids quite a few years ago. Had I not smashed that iPod with a hammer/knife until I lit the battery on fire I would show the images I took


Dare I ask about the story behind that - I expect nothing less than "why not?"

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Matabuey (Oct 14, 2016)

EulersK said:


> No, it wasn't albino. Likely just a color morph. Albino does not mean "white", it means a lack of melanin.
> 
> What you saw was likely either a freshly molted tarantula, a different species, or a color morph. Without pictures or a specimen, it's all hearsay. Given that there is no scientific documentation of true albinism in insects or arachnids, that's about where the argument ends.
> 
> If you have any publications to show true albinism, I'd love to have a read.


Considering spiders contain melanin, it's wise to assume that an albino is possible. 

http://jeb.biologists.org/content/early/2015/10/07/jeb.128801

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## AphonopelmaTX (Oct 14, 2016)

What's interesting about coloration in tarantulas is that color is not produced by just one means.  Sometimes color is from pigment cells (melanin), sometimes from sclerotization , and sometimes it is produced structurally (air pockets between the micro-plates that make up setae). As the article on albinism in a scorpion that Viper69 linked to explains, the albino scorpion was not described as white, but pale with the highly sclerotized  parts appearing normally and the eyes lacking pigmentation.  In theory, albinism in tarantulas would appear differently depending on the species and how colors are produced.  For example, an albino Poecilotheria metallica would probably retain it's blue and yellow color because those are produced by the structure of its setae while the eyes, weakly sclerotized  parts, and blacks produced by pigment would appear pale.  Perhaps a pale yellow/ cream color.  An albino Aphonopelma hentzi by contrast would probably appear pale in color since it's brown and black coloration, I'm assuming, comes from pigmented cells and sclerotization.

Enter the troglobitic species of tarantulas of the genus Hemirrhagus.  There are few species of Hemirrhagus that live in cave systems in eastern Mexico as well as one from Brazil, Tmesiphantes hypogeus.  The descriptions of some of these Mexican troglobites (I didn't note which ones) hint at the possibility that they are in fact albinos.  The majority of the troglobitic or troglophile species are described as having no pigmentation in the lateral eyes, for the ones that have eyes anyway, and some are described as being a yellowish color and without pigmentation.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Informative 4 | Love 1


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## Toxoderidae (Oct 14, 2016)

Sarkhan42 said:


> Dare I ask about the story behind that - I expect nothing less than "why not?"


I was bored.

Reactions: Like 1


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## gypsy cola (Oct 14, 2016)

tarantulas cannot be a mulatto, mosquito or an albino.


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## Andrea82 (Oct 14, 2016)

Toxoderidae said:


> I was bored.


Youth of today....


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## Toxoderidae (Oct 14, 2016)

Andrea82 said:


> Youth of today....


It was the middle of winter, I couldn't go outside, and the electronic was failing! I was given permission to destroy it.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## viper69 (Oct 14, 2016)

Matabuey said:


> Considering spiders contain melanin


I couldn't find that paper readily, thanks for linking it. It's the same team that published the 2015 paper on blue reflectance in Ts.



AphonopelmaTX said:


> What's interesting about coloration in tarantulas is that color is not produced by just one means


Indeed, I didn't' get into the above because I had already posted that paper a while back.
@Matabuey mentioned a different paper by the same group that published on the origin of blue in Ts. If you need the ref let me know, but I suspect you already own it.

It would be interesting to see an albino T, and observe what colors are affected, if any, in the normal WT phenotype's setae.

As an aside, blue is the rarest color in nature, and more frequently than expected it is not created by pigments.

Reactions: Like 1


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