# Cold weather scorps.



## rjh5791 (Dec 31, 2009)

Hello everyone , I was just wondering if there are any scorpions that will do fine in temps. that get low into the mid to high 60s at night with out a heat light?

Thanks, Rob


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## Widowman10 (Dec 31, 2009)

mine do :? i keep centruroides and hadrurus. daytime temps get up to 70, but they've all been perfectly fine for a couple of years now. 

now, if i was trying to breed them and have them grow quickly, i would not keep them in the 60-70F range, i would keep them higher. they are adults now though, and do perfectly fine in the range you are talking about. i also keep a Ptrans, but he's on a heatpad


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## Travis K (Dec 31, 2009)

Paruroctonus boreus but they are pretty small only getting 1.5" on avg.



















BTW this species goes through 3 months of Harsh Winter.


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## spinningspider (Dec 31, 2009)

nice choice on the P boreus. Ive caught them in 40 degree temps... they do awesome and i believe the scorpion that ranges farthest north


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## Travis K (Dec 31, 2009)

Yeah they are pretty neat.  I just got a 51 UV LED Flash Light and can't wait to go out on the banks of the Columbia River in Spring of 2010.  I think there are at least two species out there and I am going to try and find them.


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## rjh5791 (Dec 31, 2009)

Thanks for the input. I have some C. sculpts for a few months now and they don't look like they have been growing at all, so i have been putting them in a deli cup within one of our Bearded dragon cages to keep the heat up a little bit. I like the H. arizonensis I just thought they would need to be a little warmer. Any other suggestions?


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## Widowman10 (Dec 31, 2009)

i'll heartily agree with P. boreus. kept them before and they do great with colder temps, specially since they're one of the farthest ranging scorps up north. neat little guys too.


oh- spadix can also be found in areas that experience pretty harsh weather. plus, they are just sweet looking:


Widowman10 said:


> H. spadix:


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## Travis K (Dec 31, 2009)

Widowman10 said:


> i'll heartily agree with P. boreus. kept them before and they do great with colder temps, specially since they're one of the farthest ranging scorps up north. neat little guys too.
> 
> 
> oh- spadix can also be found in areas that experience pretty harsh weather. plus, they are just sweet looking:


Where can those be found?


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## Widowman10 (Dec 31, 2009)

Travis K said:


> Where can those be found?


found ours in northern utah. also colorado. and both those can get pretty nasty in wintertime.


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## rjh5791 (Dec 31, 2009)

Are all these species noobie friendly?


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## Widowman10 (Dec 31, 2009)

define 'noobie friendly.' they are fairly simple to care for, temperment can be nasty at times, hardy in captivity usually. pretty good for me!


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## rjh5791 (Dec 31, 2009)

By noob friendly I mean care wise, forgiving of mistakes.


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## Nomadinexile (Dec 31, 2009)

I just went hiking today, I found a few C. vittatus and P. reddelli under rocks and wood.  Lows have been 30-45* recently.  Last night was 40*.  Highs 60-65*.


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## rjh5791 (Jan 1, 2010)

You're lucky, I wish I can go outside and find scorps. here.


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## Vidaro (Jan 1, 2010)

Though i believe all scorpions can survive in any natural temps Mesobuthus cyprius is also found on the highest place on this island wich during this time off year is usualy covered in snow. A species wich doesnt borrow from my experience.


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## Nomadinexile (Jan 1, 2010)

Vidaro said:


> Though i believe all scorpions can survive in any natural temps Mesobuthus cyprius is also found on the highest place on this island wich during this time off year is usualy covered in snow. A species wich doesnt borrow from my experience.


Wow.   Nature amazes again.


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## Nomadinexile (Jan 1, 2010)

rjh5791 said:


> You're lucky, I wish I can go outside and find scorps. here.


Well, everywhere has it's ups and downs right?     Good news is, there are plenty of areas of the U.S. you could move to and collect scorpions when you have free time.   Off the top of my head:

CA, OR, WA, AZ, UT, NV, CO, NM, TX, LA, FL, GA, AL, AK, OK, ID, SC, MO, 
well, there is more, but you get the point!


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## rjh5791 (Jan 1, 2010)

Now humidity wise my tank will only be getting at most about 30-40% in the winter will all these be fine with this?


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## Nomadinexile (Jan 1, 2010)

rjh5791 said:


> Now humidity wise my tank will only be getting at most about 30-40% will all these be fine with this?


Well, not all.   The desert species will.  As long as you keep water dish around.  30% is low though.  Isn't an A/C cooled and dehumidified house usually 50%rh?  It isn't too hard to bring it up if you choose.  But you could just keep water available.  And with desert species, even that wouldn't have to be 24/7.  But still often.   

For something like an emperor though, no way.  I don't think so, even with a water dish.   

Keep up with questions if you have more.   I kind of have the day off.


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## rjh5791 (Jan 1, 2010)

I am thinking the humidity might below because it is winter time and I live in an old house.


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## Nomadinexile (Jan 1, 2010)

rjh5791 said:


> I am thinking the humidity might below because it is winter time and I live in an old house.


That makes sense.  Sorry, I've been in relatively humid areas for many years now.


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## rjh5791 (Jan 1, 2010)

So then the conditions will be good for desert scorpions like the H. spadix, and the H arizonensis. These also get a little on the bigger side, and are readily available which is preferable. Although most H arizonensis I have seen for sale seem wild caught.


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## Nomadinexile (Jan 1, 2010)

rjh5791 said:


> So then the conditions will be good for desert scorpions like the H. spadix, and the H arizonensis. These also get a little on the bigger side, and are readily available which is preferable.


I am sure.   If you can get a mister, and make it "seasonally" wetter, that would be good too.   My suggestion, depending on substrate, would be to mist once a week, and keep water available as much as possible.  Even in the desert, they have access to water a lot from rains and condensation or dew.

From what I can tell from distribution of H. spadix and H. arizonensis, they should be able to handle a wide range of temperatures and humidity.  They see temperatures from freezing to 100*+ and humidity range of 10%-20%? all they way up to 95%+ in rainy seasons.   If you are going to attempt to breed them, I would find a couple of locations on weather channel .com, and try and match seasonal changes.  For example, if they have extremely cold winters, but they are in your house, try leaving the tank heater off, and see what temp it goes to.  Or if they no rain in winter, but a lot in spring, you would keep it really dry in the winter, then in march or so, start misting a couple times a week for a similar length of time.   They have variation, but there are some generalities that happen for breeding.   As far as your house goes, if you can handle it, so can they.  (unless you are wearing a snowmobilng suit in your house)  I really would suggest you check out averages for them in their home range though.

Like this:   For Kingman, AZ
http://www.weather.com/weather/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/USAZ0113

*Kingman is H. arizonensis turf I believe.  Keep in mind, with some species such as this one, they have deep burrows which can help regulate temperature extremes.  A 20 ft deep burrow is going to have a much different temperature and humidity, than the surface, both day and night. -r


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## rjh5791 (Jan 1, 2010)

Nomadinexile said:


> I am sure.   If you can get a mister, and make it "seasonally" wetter
> 
> From what I can tell from distribution of H. spadix and H. arizonensis, they should be able to handle a wide range of temperatures and humidity.  They see temperatures from freezing to 100*+ and humidity range of 10%-20%? all they way up to 95%+ in rainy seasons.   If you are going to attempt to breed them, I would find a couple of locations on weather channel .com, and try and match seasonal changes.  For example, if they have extremely cold winters, but they are in your house, try leaving the tank heater off, and see what temp it goes to.  Or if they no rain in winter, but a lot in spring, you would keep it really dry in the winter, then in march or so, start misting a couple times a week for a similar length of time.   They have variation, but there are some generalities that happen for breeding.   As far as your house goes, if you can handle it, so can they.  (unless you are wearing a snowmobilng suit in your house)  I really would suggest you check out averages for them in their home range though.


I am using eco-earth for substrate and if they do burrow it will probably get the  higher humidity if I put a few inches of substrate, but if it doesn't  spraying the cage once a week will. But to much humidity I read can easily cause this species mycosis, how much is to much. About the burrowing, if they burrrow to get humidity in the wild wont they get mycosis as well?


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## gromgrom (Jan 1, 2010)

u. mordax are slightly below room temp
50 at night, 60-70 during the day.


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## rjh5791 (Jan 1, 2010)

gromgrom said:


> u. mordax are slightly below room temp
> 50 at night, 60-70 during the day.


Thanks for the imput, those look awsome.


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## Nomadinexile (Jan 1, 2010)

rjh5791 said:


> I am using eco-earth for substrate and if they do burrow it will probably get the  higher humidity if I put a few inches of substrate, but if it doesn't  spraying the cage once a week will. But to much humidity I read can easily cause this species mycosis, how much is to much. About the burrowing, if they burrrow to get humidity in the wild wont they get mycosis as well?


What is eco-earth?  Do you known?   Is that coco?  or one of the sandy types?

No, they won't get mycosis from burrowing.  If it is too humid, they will often dig another entrance to get air flowing.   If you let it dry out every week or twice a week,  you should be fine with mycosis.  Don't leave the substrate wet.  Not for any length of time.   Damp is good sometimes.  Not soaked though.   Better yet, most of the year, just mist and get top of surface damp most of the time.  Then during more rainy months, maybe get it damp deeper.

You will figure it out though.  Just use your best judgement.  Check weather channel sometimes.  You'll be good.


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## gromgrom (Jan 1, 2010)

Nomadinexile said:


> What is eco-earth?  Do you known?   Is that coco?  or one of the sandy types?
> 
> No, they won't get mycosis from burrowing.  If it is too humid, they will often dig another entrance to get air flowing.   If you let it dry out every week or twice a week,  you should be fine with mycosis.  Don't leave the substrate wet.  Not for any length of time.   Damp is good sometimes.  Not soaked though.   Better yet, most of the year, just mist and get top of surface damp most of the time.  Then during more rainy months, maybe get it damp deeper.
> 
> You will figure it out though.  Just use your best judgement.  Check weather channel sometimes.  You'll be good.


eco earth is the namebrand dirt bricks you put in water to expand it.


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## Nomadinexile (Jan 1, 2010)

gromgrom said:


> eco earth is the namebrand dirt bricks you put in water to expand it.


Is it dirt?  Or coco?   If it's coco, it's super easy to control humidity.   It also drains well, which is great if you spill a bit.  Coco is my favorite substrate.


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## gromgrom (Jan 1, 2010)

Nomadinexile said:


> Is it dirt?  Or coco?   If it's coco, it's super easy to control humidity.   It also drains well, which is great if you spill a bit.  Coco is my favorite substrate.


coco, but dirt. no bark


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## Nomadinexile (Jan 1, 2010)

gromgrom said:


> coco, but dirt. no bark


lol, now I'm just confused!  lol.   If it's coco, it is bark.  Well, shell bark. They don't use the trunk, meat or milk!   But yeah, it looks like dirt because it's shredded finely.  Unless I am somehow still mistaken.  Which is possible.  

If it is coco, you should be good.  If I'm still confused, and it's just loam or something, I would consider mixing in coco to it.   But I am pretty sure it is coco.  So you should be good.


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## rjh5791 (Jan 1, 2010)

Yes it's coco. It does keep moisture welll which might be a problem with desert hairies so I hear.


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## Nomadinexile (Jan 1, 2010)

rjh5791 said:


> Yes it's coco. It does keep moisture welll which might be a problem with desert hairies so I hear.


Yeah, they can suffer if you keep it too moist.   But I thought he was worried about it being too dry.   I do find that coco kept dry can collapse in the entry sometimes.   I have added mosses and/or sand to to give dry coco more structure for burrowing desert species.   Nevertheless, I do think that if you compact the slightly damp coco in the cage, and then when it starts drying out a bit, add scorp, allow to burrow, then let dry, with a light weekly or biweekly misting will keep burrow intact and avoid mycosis.  Just make sure to have air exchange, and it should be cool.


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## rjh5791 (Jan 1, 2010)

I am only worried about the possibility moisture for the desert haries because it is considered a problem for this species. Also if I put him in a sterlite container the humidity will be about 40%, the 20% humidty I measured earlier was from my Ts ten gallon tank with the eco-earth.


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## Nomadinexile (Jan 1, 2010)

rjh5791 said:


> I am only worried about the possibility moisture for the desert haries because it is considered a problem for this species. Also if I put him in a sterlite container the humidity will be about 40%, the 20% humidty I measured earlier was from my Ts ten gallon tank with the eco-earth.


40% won't result in mycosis.  And you can always drill more holes.


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## rjh5791 (Jan 1, 2010)

How high can the humidity reach before I should get worried about mycosis?


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## Nomadinexile (Jan 1, 2010)

rjh5791 said:


> How high can the humidity reach before I should get worried about mycosis?


I would say much over 50 I would start getting concerned.  Temporarily high humidities won't be a problem.   You could have 75% if it is only for say 6 hours, dropping back down to 40% shortly after.  If mine sat at 55%, I'm not too worried.   60%, and I'm thinking dehumidifier.  But again, temporarily, it can go higher.   Less than 50% and I don't think mycosis would be an issue.

I am not an expert on DH's though.  I don't even have any right now!  So if anyone else is seeing flaw in my logic, or just error, please, correct me.   But I think you will be okay.


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## rjh5791 (Jan 2, 2010)

So it looks like the DH is best option and it's more readily availably than the other suggested. Thanks, for all the help .


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## JackWaites (Jan 2, 2010)

I heard that desert hairys don't need any additional heat, plus they don't need any water or misting at all


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## Nomadinexile (Jan 2, 2010)

JackWaites said:


> I heard that desert hairys don't need any additional heat, plus they don't need any water or misting at all


I would take that with a grain of salt.  In all but the most extreme sand dunes of africa maybe, scorpions often have access to some water, even if it doesn't rain.  There is morning dew, sometimes water inside burrows.   And it is not all that dry across most DH habitat.  There are dry times, but it does rain and condensate as well.    You could probably get away with just healthy feeders, but you aren't going to hurt anything with a little water dish!  -r


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## Nomadinexile (Jan 2, 2010)

For Example, Palm Springs,CA I think that's in there for at least one Hadrurus sp., anyway, it gets about an inch a month most of the year.   That's not much.  But if you figure out how many mister sprays that would be a month, it would surprise you if you did the math right.  However, you are not trying to exactly recreate conditions because you can't.  You can't have the same wind, the same sun, as deep a burrow.   But they do have access more that you would think.  give them some water sometimes and it will be better.


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## AzJohn (Jan 6, 2010)

I'm gonna throw out Superstitionia donensis. The only time I've ever seen them is between Oct and Dec. There range does include areas that get very hot and dry, Az Sonoran Desert. When the conditions are hot and dry they go deep underground. When I've found them the temps have been around 60degrees. I'm sure that that is not the only factor to them being out and about, but it does seem to matter.

John


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## Nomadinexile (Jan 6, 2010)

I'm going to add P. reddelli.   There should be a few babies around this spring when people can ship.  They live in or around 65* caves.  The ones outside of caves see below freezing for short periods, but burrow at least under a 2" deep rock.     They can sure as heck handle 65* though.


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## Sarcastro (Jan 7, 2010)

C.vittatus are really tolerant of the cold.I've actually froze one in the freezer and then thawed him out..it came out like nothing happened, a little sluggish but fine non the less


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## Nomadinexile (Jan 7, 2010)

It's going to be 20* tonight here!        So tomorrow I am going scorpion hunting.  

Well, not exactly hunting, but I want to find a couple C. vittatus, photograph them next to a thermometer, then bring them home and thaw them out.  Oh, and this isn't going to be 20* for twenty minutes.  This is going to be 20* most of the night!  It shouldn't be above freezing yet when I get there....


*okay, so I walked away from this post thinking that this might be a problem.  I am worried, that if they warm up too quickly, that it could result in damage to cells.  Maybe that's ridiculous, I just don't know as much as I should about inverts, sorry.  So if anyone reading this is going, "don't do it", please tell me, and add why so I can add to my limited knowledge.      Ryan


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## Sarcastro (Jan 8, 2010)

Nomadinexile said:


> *okay, so I walked away from this post thinking that this might be a problem.  I am worried, that if they warm up too quickly, that it could result in damage to cells.  Maybe that's ridiculous, I just don't know as much as I should about inverts, sorry.  So if anyone reading this is going, "don't do it", please tell me, and add why so I can add to my limited knowledge.      Ryan


When My group first did the experiment we gradually increased the temp by a 1/2-1 degree every 20 min or so to simulate the natural warming process and then adjusted it by gradually increasing the heat index over time to simulate sun rise. we did the same as when we froze him, he remained in the freeze at 32*f for about 54hrs and then we started the thaw process. 

*caution* a quick note not all wild specimens will be in this kind of stasis because they sense the pressure drop and seek shelter under rocks or other debris that has collected ambient heat to last the night.so be careful.


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## Nomadinexile (Jan 9, 2010)

So, we went on a hike today in city park, which I've never been in, to look for frozen arachnids to take pictures of for everyone.  Although I've never been to this location, habitat would suggest there should be populations of C. vittatus.  I am unaware of any nearby caves, so I cannot suggest P. reddelli exist here.

I fully expected to find C. vittatus in multiple locations along the trails.  But, even after 3 hours of hiking, I came up completely empty handed for arachnids, with the exception of an approximately 1/2" centipede which was active and quick on it's feet.  Temperatures ranged from approximately 2*F below freezing to 2* above freezing after a night with a low of approximately 20*F.  

The 3 hour hike wasn't planned.  We got turned around and didn't pay attention to the trails we were on.  This is a downside to walking around with your eyes on the ground looking for bugs and such, inevitable I would say.  hehe.

I did see a cool little spider and a few small beetles.  But mostly, it ended up just being about getting the blood flowing and getting some fresh air.  The terrain was steep enough that we were down to pants and sweatshirts by 33*.  A lot of fun.  Nice hike.  No scorpion sightings. 

Conclusion, C. vittatus may not be able to be found during temperatures at or below freezing.  

Next Step.  Test above conclusion in area with a population I am familiar with so that variable of existence of population is taken out of test.  

Pictures can be seen at link below.  Only good critter picture is that of cool small spider (I think it was a spider, not really sure.)  The rest are pictures of horizon and plants and a couple of funny signs.   Enjoy-r

http://s619.photobucket.com/albums/tt279/Nomadinexile/Hiking in Austin Jan ninth 2010/


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## Bayushi (Jan 9, 2010)

the spider you snapped a photo of is a "spitting spider" not sure of scientific name though.  cool little beasties  IMO


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## Nomadinexile (Jan 9, 2010)

Bayushi said:


> the spider you snapped a photo of is a "spitting spider" not sure of scientific name though.  cool little beasties  IMO


Cool thanks!  Anything that can spit or shoot venom is absolutely cool imo.


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