# UV/Black lights bad why?



## LoganVivisected (Aug 3, 2006)

Firstly I want to say that no, I do not use them for my scorpions.

But I would like to know HOW are they dangerous? Please dont give me the same old "they could harm your scorps..........." more details please haha. All anyone seems to know is that they are possibly harmful to the exoskeleton, and what I gather, (could be wrong), is that too much is like us being exposed to too much sun, so it sort of "sunburns" the scorps. But does anyone really know why they are bad? How it actually damages the scorpion? And just how fatal it really is?

Black lights produce a lot of heat, I know this all too well because one of the bars I go to to see Oi and Punk Rock shows has blacklights instead of regular lights...neat effect but damn it gets hot in there, (course 50 people singing and moshing doesnt help either lol). So I was thinking maybe its not the actual light thats killing the scorps, maybe its drying them out by getting rid of all the humidity in the air? Maybe some test should be done. I say at some point there should be an experiment done with several species, 3 of whatever is used, 1 thats exposed to no black lighting, 1 thats exposed every night for X hours, then one thats exposed all night/all day. Should provide a clearer answer than "its bad". :wall:


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## Deolok (Aug 3, 2006)

Its the UV rays... Just as they damage our skin they damage scorpion exoskeletons...


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## sick4x4 (Aug 3, 2006)

they tend to cook inside out...drys they out......


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## LoganVivisected (Aug 3, 2006)

to deolok

thats what i just pointed out and i just asked details, not the same old answers. and black light doesnt hurt humans unless we are exposed for very long periods of time and it can take years to develope any signifigant effects, so logically smaller exposuer/amount for a smaller animal should yeild the same effects, but it doesnt, the question is why?

Reactions: Like 1


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## LoganVivisected (Aug 3, 2006)

*to sick4x4*

then shouldnt cooler temps and more water/humidity cancel that out?


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## sick4x4 (Aug 3, 2006)

no,logiclly i kinda thought that would, but it didnt ,it would be like putting them in a microwave, the rate at which it cooks them is greater then the amount of water they could consume to counter the effects...


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## Wade (Aug 3, 2006)

Extended exposure is thought to blind them, as those kept under blacklight eventually stop reacting to visible light the way scorpions normally do . Also, it has been observed that the glow becomes less intense the longer the exposure, to the point that it can't be seen.  SOMETHING is obviously happening! Whether these are fatal or not I have no idea, but it can't possibly be good!

I'm not aware of any problems resulting from brief exposure, however. 

Wade


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## LoganVivisected (Aug 3, 2006)

*sick4x4*

well then how fast are we talking the effects are? is it an over night you end up with a dead scorpion thing? or is it prolonged exposuer over several days or even weeks? 

also, the sun produces amounts much more vast than any manmade light we have, (uv rays do get through our atmosphere, thats how people get freckles and tan/burn), so shouldnt say...a desert species actually be used to more uv exposuer and not face as much harm as quickly as say a rainforest animal? i know that they are typically nocturnal however theres plenty of times and reasons where a scorpion will venture out into the day. you'd think that animals that have existed since just about the beggining of life on earth would have evolved to be a bit more durable in this aspect like they did in others.:?


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## LoganVivisected (Aug 3, 2006)

*wade*

thats more the kind of answer i was looking for. so we know that it may harm scorpions, and fatalities are not deffinate but may happen,(we should also keep in mind that this could be included in several factors that may lead to death, and not just be uv alone). also that prolonged exposuer over several days with no time inbetween to really recover is bad for them just like it is for us and any other animal, however some exposuer then enough rest time (say 4 or 5 days) shouldnt yeild any problems.


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## Deolok (Aug 3, 2006)

@ LoganVivisected

Yes the sun does produce tons i mean...TONS of uv waves, but the black light produces more intense ones. 

Anyways, the point of black lights in the scorpion world is to spot them, not for them to live in it. If you go scorp hunting, you use a black light to locate them. 

There is also a believe that if a scorpion is kept in intense UV black light, they will be unable to molt, or will be damage in the molting process because their exoskeleton has basically melted to them.


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## sick4x4 (Aug 3, 2006)

tell me about it!! evolution takes time and to some excent they have, man has invented things that evo hasnt been able to catch up to yet..im sure with extensive breeding one could conclude that eventually they could be breed too..mine took about a month to die..this was when i was a newbie and had alot of black lights cuzz who didnt want a glow in the dark scorp!!it wasnt till i did some research that i found that direct contact to a black light turned on 24-7 as a heat source did i find that actually cooked them...there is a site ill see if i can find it that dicusses this in the scientfic ave...with that said the best way to hunt scorps is with a black light..but there again the expo is limited...


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## Wade (Aug 3, 2006)

I've hunted scorpions many times in Arizona and New Mexico and I've never found one in the open in the daytime. Can't say it never happens, but I've never seen it. Moving about in the daytime in captive conditions doesn't have any bearing on what they do in the wild.

Black lights aren't the same as sunlight. A scorpion naturally wants to hide from the visible light, but they will remain exposed to the UVB bulbs, resulting in extended exposure. The clues they use to tell them it's time to hide are absent.  This is the similar to the way sunglasses that don't block UV can actually damage your eyes, because they "trick" your eyes into letting in more light than they would normally. 

Wade


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## Wade (Aug 3, 2006)

LoganVivisected said:
			
		

> thats more the kind of answer i was looking for. so we know that it may harm scorpions, and fatalities are not deffinate but may happen,(we should also keep in mind that this could be included in several factors that may lead to death, and not just be uv alone). also that prolonged exposuer over several days with no time inbetween to really recover is bad for them just like it is for us and any other animal, however some exposuer then enough rest time (say 4 or 5 days) shouldnt yeild any problems.


Well, we can't say conclusively that it doesn't cause any problems, but in my opinion there is no reason to leave a blacklight on over a scorpion for more than a few seconds, or minutes at the most, at a time. I have a LED blacklight, and if I want to see the glowing scorpion trick, I turn it on, and when I'm sufficiently amused, I turn it off. This usually takes less than a minute.

Wade


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## Deolok (Aug 3, 2006)

Well I learned something I didn't know today...Wow....sunglasses...you sons of b's!


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## Wade (Aug 3, 2006)

Deolok said:
			
		

> Well I learned something I didn't know today...Wow....sunglasses...you sons of b's!


Only the ones that don't block UV, and I think they're all legally required to nowadays anyway, even the cheap ones  

Wade


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## Bayushi (Aug 3, 2006)

we should also keep in mind that there are 3 different wavelengths of UV light a,b, and c...  UVB is known to cause skin cancer in humans

Here's a quote from wikipedia on UVB:

"UVB light can cause skin cancer. The radiation excites DNA molecules in skin cells, causing covalent bonds to form between adjacent thymine bases, producing thymidine dimers. Thymidine dimers do not base pair normally, which can cause distortion of the DNA helix, stalled replication, gaps, and misincorporation. These can lead to mutations, which can result in cancerous growths. The mutagenicity of UV radiation can be easily observed in bacteria cultures."

 now who is to say UV will effect the DNA of an invert, but seeing how it does effect mammals, considered a higher form of life,  it is also possible that inverts are not immune to it.


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## Deolok (Aug 3, 2006)

Could point, lol I've always viewed scorpions as little cooler people...


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## Yama Sahak (Aug 3, 2006)

First of all I want to say, I manufacture Ultraviolet (Blacklight) LED Flashlights and I also have several hundred scorpions as personal pets.  I use my UV Flashlights to catch the scorpions and the damages they face are not instant.  Only prolonged and constant use of the light will do damage.  The damages include causing the blood to go bad, and also it causes physocological damages as well.  But remember, that is for prolonged use only.  Just a quick shine here and there does no damage at all.

Reactions: Like 1


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## cacoseraph (Aug 3, 2006)

i used to heat and light part of my scorp collection for about a year with  constant UV light.

no deaths in that time, in the scorps exposed to the UV light. babies molted multiple times and adults ate just fine.

i actually had pregnant mothers pushing as close as they could get to the light (presumably for the heat) and produce a quite healthy and large brood of scorps for their species

i'm not saying UV doesn't damage them... but i am saying it takes a LOT of exposure before anything marked happens

i eventually stopped because i figured it was going to damage my eyes before i saw any effects in the scorps


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## Code Monkey (Aug 3, 2006)

Well, I don't know exactly how much is too much (I use a black light for brief night viewing in my C. vittatus tank) but I will chime in with this:

I have spent a number of years in molecular biology labs, want to know what we use to introduce multiple breaks and nicks into DNA? Yep, UV light. This is why sun can give you cancer, the nick or break is improperly repaired and you get a mutated, cancerous cell as a result. Admittedly, we used more intense lights than the average keeper is going to mount on their scorp tank, but the potential effect is still the same.

If for no other reason than that, people should avoid prolonged exposure to UV light for any animal (including themselves no matter how cool it seems).



> now who is to say UV will effect the DNA of an invert, but seeing how it does effect mammals, considered a higher form of life,  it is also possible that inverts are not immune to it.


DNA is DNA is DNA, it doesn't matter if it comes from bacteria miles beneath the earth's crust or a lowland gorilla, it's exactly the same molecule and UV will damage it. On the other hand, many other animals have better DNA repair mechanisms than mammals, we're kind of retards at that.


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## sick4x4 (Aug 3, 2006)

Wade said:
			
		

> Only the ones that don't block UV, and I think they're all legally required to nowadays anyway, even the cheap ones
> 
> Wade


actually very few sunglasses are made to block the uv rays....its usally ur higher end pairs that actually do...most sunglasses you get if you read the fine print say that they only block a few % or none at all....which is sad but sun glasses are ment to block light not uv rays....just most people assume that a dark pair of glasses do...sadlly they dont..u should read up on the oakley site..the diagram all of the types of light, uv rays, and yes even some other type of ray, which at the moment cant remember.....sadlly its a safer bet that the more expensive usally means the more protective...though i have a pair of versagei's that dont protect like my oakley's sooo a catch 22


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## Michiel (Aug 4, 2006)

Yes the sun does produce tons i mean...TONS of uv waves, but the black light produces more intense ones. 

      

I'm sorry, I'll get back to you guys when I caught my breath back.......


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