# Do you need a licence to breed exotics? (OTHER then "hots")



## LadySharon (Jan 7, 2013)

Ok. So... my local news station has this story:
http://www.9news.com/news/article/309117/188/Infant-found-living-with-298-animals-parents-arrested

The animals in question are a bunch of reptiles, birds and rodants.  

I left a loooong comment on the artical.  

Now... of course the conditions were horrible (if you read the artical)  and they were drunk and lost track of their child which is bad... 

BUT one thing that seriously bugged me is the deputy said they were breeding without a licence.   

HUH?  Sence when do you need a licence to breed anything!   - Other then show dogs/cats and maybe "hots".  I've NEVER HEARD THIS.

I know I've bred gerbils before and my garters... I plan to breed my ball pythons and my tarantulas.  I have never seen on here or anyone else that you need a licence to breed.   And I've never seen someone display a licence at shows either.  (which if you need it - you should be required to prove your a licenced breeder - right? )   


So I wanted the communities take on that.  Do I need a licence to breed my BPs?

- Sharon


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## cantthinkofone (Jan 7, 2013)

horribly sad story. very abused animals. no liscenses are needed. as long as the animals are taking care of its all good. ive never even heard of liscenses at least not where i live


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## pitbulllady (Jan 7, 2013)

I'm not sure why all the commenters keep mentioning Colorado, when the story clearly states that this was in Pinnelas County, FLORIDA.  There is no license required to keep, breed or sell native reptiles, and the only snakes shown WERE native species, like the Yellow Rat Snake, not "exotics".  Florida requires special permits for "Reptiles of Concern", such as Burms, and ownership cannot be transferred, so the permit is just to keep the animal until it dies, or is killed.  They also require permits on venomous, none on common pet lizards like the Bearded Dragons or on rodents, which were no doubt being bred as feeders.  I don't know about other small mammals like Hedgehogs in Florida, but since I keep seeing a lot of dealers from FL bringing them to the reptile shows to sell, I have to assume that there is no permit needed to own or breed those.  

EDIT:  Found THIS via Pet Law- http://www2.tbo.com/news/news/2013/...aces-child-abuse-charge-animal-cha-ar-599645/
The couple DID have several Burmese Pythons, and had no Reptiles of Concern permits, so this is probably the licenses that were mentioned in the previous article. 

pitbulllady


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## nepenthes (Jan 7, 2013)

Maybe they were selling them to local pet stores? Do you need a permit to breed feeder pets like rats and rabbits? Just Backwards half asked reporting if you ask me.


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## LadySharon (Jan 7, 2013)

Oh goodness! I'm sorry.  I was at work when I clicked on that artical - at lunch... I somehow skipped right over where it said it was florida! It's the first word!  

Because it was a local news site and one of the top stories I thought it was in Colorado!  :doh

I did look and see all sorts of wildlife laws for florida.   

Still the article could be better written.  And at the time I read it (don't know if they changed it)  they didn't mention anything about big snakes.   

Note - I cannot see the video at work - and I also don't like to play them anyway - so if there is info in the video not in the artical --- well it should be.    

Well I feel a little better.  I was searching for Colorado and didn't come up with anything.


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## pitbulllady (Jan 8, 2013)

nepenthes said:


> Maybe they were selling them to local pet stores? Do you need a permit to breed feeder pets like rats and rabbits? Just Backwards half asked reporting if you ask me.


You need a USDA permit to sell rabbits to pet shops or other "third party" interests, such as Class B animal dealers, who supply retail pet shops.  You do NOT need a USDA permit to sell rabbits directly to the new owner or to sell rabbits intended to be consumed by either humans or other animals, aka feeders, and yes, lots of people eat rabbits and most of the rabbits raised in the US are actually raised to be slaughtered and eaten.  Florida does have a "pet lemon law" which prohibits domesticated pets, including rabbits, from being sold under the age of 8 weeks and requires that they have health certificates and are free of disease, parasites, etc., and various localities could have additional laws restricting what animals you can breed and sell or how many.  In some municipalities across the nation, rabbits are still classified as "livestock" and are restricted from being owned or sold, just as are hogs, cows, or horses.  There are no Federal or state laws in FL that apply to domestic rodents, like rats, though.  

Now, from the video I saw, none of the animals appeared sick, injured or malnourished.  The bedding appeared clean.  The one snake shown, a native Yellow Rat, looked fat and healthy.  Rats in particular are very prone to illness and poor condition if not kept in good conditions, and none of the rats looked dirty or sick.  One of the tools of the AR's is to use words like "horrible conditions", "appalling conditions", "filth" and "squalor" when describing ANY raid on animals.  Very often, raids are conducted by people who already are dead-set against owning animals, PERIOD, or who at least do not have any real hands-on knowledge of animal husbandry, so they assume that anything that they would not want for themselves constitutes animal cruelty and abuse.  I nearly got arrested once when our locale AR nutjob AC officer saw one of my dogs voluntarily drinking from a mudhole.  Her argument, literally, was "would YOU want to drink from a mud puddle?"  MY response was "no, but I also wouldn't want to sniff anyone's (expletive), or roll on a rotting possum carcass, eat cat (another expletive), repetitively fetch a stick because some idiot kept throwing it away, or drink from a toilet.  Every dog I've ever known LOVED doing that sort of thing".  The story mentioned said that some animals were found dead and half-eaten...HELLO they were FEEDERS!  Many carnivorous lizards like to save some left-overs for a bit later.  Rats and mice, especially mice, are cannibalistic and will sometimes kill and eat each other no matter how perfectly they are kept, as anyone who raises feeder rodents in any large volume can tell you.  It is an unavoidable part of rodent production.  Still, when you're up against people who have that Disneyfied picture of animal behavior and who have no clue how to actually keep animals themselves, this is what happens.

pitbulllady

Reactions: Like 1


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## Tarac (Jan 9, 2013)

pitbulllady said:


> You need a USDA permit to sell rabbits to pet shops or other "third party" interests, such as Class B animal dealers, who supply retail pet shops.  You do NOT need a USDA permit to sell rabbits directly to the new owner or to sell rabbits intended to be consumed by either humans or other animals, aka feeders, and yes, lots of people eat rabbits and most of the rabbits raised in the US are actually raised to be slaughtered and eaten.  Florida does have a "pet lemon law" which prohibits domesticated pets, including rabbits, from being sold under the age of 8 weeks and requires that they have health certificates and are free of disease, parasites, etc., and various localities could have additional laws restricting what animals you can breed and sell or how many.  In some municipalities across the nation, rabbits are still classified as "livestock" and are restricted from being owned or sold, just as are hogs, cows, or horses.  There are no Federal or state laws in FL that apply to domestic rodents, like rats, though.
> 
> Now, from the video I saw, none of the animals appeared sick, injured or malnourished.  The bedding appeared clean.  The one snake shown, a native Yellow Rat, looked fat and healthy.  Rats in particular are very prone to illness and poor condition if not kept in good conditions, and none of the rats looked dirty or sick.  One of the tools of the AR's is to use words like "horrible conditions", "appalling conditions", "filth" and "squalor" when describing ANY raid on animals.  Very often, raids are conducted by people who already are dead-set against owning animals, PERIOD, or who at least do not have any real hands-on knowledge of animal husbandry, so they assume that anything that they would not want for themselves constitutes animal cruelty and abuse.  I nearly got arrested once when our locale AR nutjob AC officer saw one of my dogs voluntarily drinking from a mudhole.  Her argument, literally, was "would YOU want to drink from a mud puddle?"  MY response was "no, but I also wouldn't want to sniff anyone's (expletive), or roll on a rotting possum carcass, eat cat (another expletive), repetitively fetch a stick because some idiot kept throwing it away, or drink from a toilet.  Every dog I've ever known LOVED doing that sort of thing".  The story mentioned said that some animals were found dead and half-eaten...HELLO they were FEEDERS!  Many carnivorous lizards like to save some left-overs for a bit later.  Rats and mice, especially mice, are cannibalistic and will sometimes kill and eat each other no matter how perfectly they are kept, as anyone who raises feeder rodents in any large volume can tell you.  It is an unavoidable part of rodent production.  Still, when you're up against people who have that Disneyfied picture of animal behavior and who have no clue how to actually keep animals themselves, this is what happens.
> 
> pitbulllady


You mean to tell me that Winnie the Pooh actually would eat Piglet if given the chance?


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## Louise E. Rothstein (Jan 30, 2013)

A real bear might eat a real piglet...but Pooh and Piglet were talking toys.

Real rodents are not,but I find that they are less likely to turn cannibal if they do not overcrowd,get plenty of protein,and have opportunities to gnaw things other than each other.


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## Moonfall (Feb 2, 2013)

They cannibalize those who die of other causes also in an attempt to keep the enclosure clean. I keep my mice in huge enclosures, more than enough room and don't breed but still sometimes when there is a death they try to dispose of it. Not because they are hungry, there's always food, but because instinct says to.


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