# Help! Dead or Molting Millis?!



## MrMilli (Jul 1, 2013)

Hi All,

I am a newbie here and I would really love if anyone of you can give me some advise. I am not sure if my Millis are OK or not!

They have been very active in the last 7 months I got 'em from my local pet store. No sign of illness and appetite wise was just great. They loved sugar cane and pink guava.

However, last weekend they slowly went motionless one after another and just curled up. Currently they are curled up motionless and there's a funny foul smell in the terrarium. The exoskeleton has turned a bit whitish. Are they molting on the surface or just dead? 

Can anyone shed some light for me, please. I really appreciate it. 

Mr. Milli

Ps: Below are some photos of Molly & Max


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## MrCrackerpants (Jul 1, 2013)

If you are able to get your nose close to them, I would smell them. If there is a "smell of death"...yes, they have died. It would appear this is the case. Millipedes can molt on the surface and will survive (rarely) but with the smell they are probably dead. Sorry for your loss. I am not sure of the species so I can't say if they reached the end of their life because of maturity or because of another cause. I would suggest adding dead leaves and very small pieces of rotting wood. This is their main food source. They may have died from a lack of these essential foods. Sorry again for your loss.


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## MelissaDBrown (Jul 1, 2013)

Because you said fowl smell it makes me head to the direction that they are dead. I personally have never had a millipede die curled up and turning lighter in color so at first I was thinking molting on the surface. The last picture you posted I have never seen a millipede curl that way before. Do you know the species of them? They are very beautiful and I haven't seen any like these before. You can either take action as if they are dead or you can wait for that horrible smell. I ended up waiting three days for my girl a couple weeks back because I wasn't sure either. It emotionally killed me and I kept going back to my room to check on her. She had babies and I couldn't find them anymore. After three days I finally picked her up and she broke in half. You can either wait if you want to make sure or try to pick them up. I'm not sure if you know but when millipedes molt they can't be touched so it could be a risk. Good luck and I hope everything turns out okay. Please keep us updated. Remember that millipedes are very fragile creatures so don't be hard on yourself.


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## MrMilli (Jul 2, 2013)

Hi Mr. Crackerpants,

:cry: Yes, they've died. I can see the exoskeleton cracking on one of 'em (the one in photo #3) and the smell gets stronger. I am getting ready for the burial soon. 

It's very hard to get rotten dead leaves where I live 'cos I am staying in the city center. I managed to get some dead leaves & some old bark that has green moss from some old trees in the neighborhood. I find it funny if it was a molting gone wrong 'cos the mixture of substrate is as deep as 5" and is a mix of coco husk, plantation husk, crushed dead leaves and small barks, forest moss, a bit of calcium powder and etc. And actually I have another species of Milli in the tank which is alive and kickin' as per below photo:-


The darker striped Millis are well but all the pinkish ones have died. If you see the photo, the pinkish ones are slightly bigger size than the striped ones whereas the striped ones are longer. These two types of Millis have different personalities. Based on my observation, the striped ones are a bit shy and they hide a lot and only go out to the surface when its dark whereas the pinkish ones are very active, they crawl up a lot to get out of the terrarium and they do eat a lot. I am not sure their IDs 'cos the pet shop couldn't even tell but I think they are mostly wild Millis caught in the wild in Malaysia (same goes to the Malaysian Forest Scorpion that are sold a lot here).

That's just to share with you. I'll share more photos in this thread if you continue to follow. Thank you for your piece of advise. I'm very sad that they have gone. They were really amazing! Sob...Sob...




MrCrackerpants said:


> If you are able to get your nose close to them, I would smell them. If there is a "smell of death"...yes, they have died. It would appear this is the case. Millipedes can molt on the surface and will survive (rarely) but with the smell they are probably dead. Sorry for your loss. I am not sure of the species so I can't say if they reached the end of their life because of maturity or because of another cause. I would suggest adding dead leaves and very small pieces of rotting wood. This is their main food source. They may have died from a lack of these essential foods. Sorry again for your loss.


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## MrMilli (Jul 2, 2013)

Hi Melissa,

Indeed, I am accepting the fact that they are gone. Sob...sob... The smell is getting stronger and I saw a crack on the exoskeleton of Max (the one in the 3rd photo). And I see something dark inside and there's like small flies coming into the terrarium. And like you said the way he curled is rather strange, like a battle with pain perhaps. No, I do not know the species. The pet shop can't even tell, but if you follow my reply to Mr. Crackerpants in this thread I guess they are Malaysian forest millis caught in the wild. Like I said to Mr. Crackerpants I have two types of Millis in this terrarium, the pinkish ones which have all died (RIP Max & Molly) and the striped dark ones (Makro & Millie) which are OK. Here's some photos of the first few weeks I got them:-




I still do not understand why the pinkish ones are gone too soon. Could it be molting gone wrong? Overfed or Malnutrition? Dryness? Or something to do with the species adaptation to captivity? I don't know and I can't figure out. The weather here is tropical so I guess minimum misting once a day on the surface and keeping one side of the terrarium bit damp once a week should be OK. 

I am still in agony & tomorrow's the burial. Thanks so much for the advise. :-( 



MelissaDBrown said:


> Because you said fowl smell it makes me head to the direction that they are dead. I personally have never had a millipede die curled up and turning lighter in color so at first I was thinking molting on the surface. The last picture you posted I have never seen a millipede curl that way before. Do you know the species of them? They are very beautiful and I haven't seen any like these before. You can either take action as if they are dead or you can wait for that horrible smell. I ended up waiting three days for my girl a couple weeks back because I wasn't sure either. It emotionally killed me and I kept going back to my room to check on her. She had babies and I couldn't find them anymore. After three days I finally picked her up and she broke in half. You can either wait if you want to make sure or try to pick them up. I'm not sure if you know but when millipedes molt they can't be touched so it could be a risk. Good luck and I hope everything turns out okay. Please keep us updated. Remember that millipedes are very fragile creatures so don't be hard on yourself.


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## MrMilli (Jul 2, 2013)

After seeing these photos taken from the net of Millipede molting & shedding on the surface, I am gettin' a lot more confused...


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## MelissaDBrown (Jul 2, 2013)

Awwww I know it's so hard  

I'm wondering since this particular species died but your other one is fine maybe something with the breeding, assuming they were related, or this particular species. I want to give you some information from my care sheet from my breeders and maybe it can help. I am also adding my own experiences and notes for you.  

TERRARIUM
The size you will need depends on the species and size but as a rule multiply the body length by 3. The larger the better. As long as the millipede has food, water, and heat it does t matter if the home is  a plastic or acrylic terrarium. They don't need much light and no UV light. 

SUBSTRATE
The best kind is a mix of dead leaves from hardwood trees, rotting wood, and coconut fiber. Leaves and wood from oak, beech, and maple trees is just fine. Do not use fresh leaves!!!! Wood should come from rotting logs and stumps of a deciduous species not coniferous such as pine. The leaves should be rotten where they are soft and crumbly and the wood should be soft to crumble in fingers.  It's an off- white color at this point not brownish gray. Break it all down evenly and soak in a container full of water all night. Bake in the oven at 285* for a half hour or microwave a few minutes. Substrate needs to be at least 4-6 inches deep and always damp not wet. Many species will eat this. Some other substrates are peat and potting soil. Never spray a millipede directly!

MOLTING
Most millipedes curl up and molt  under the substrate. Sometimes they can molt on the surface. Do not touch, move, stress a millipede during this stage as they are extremely delicate. It can take a few hours to about 2 weeks. They usually change color before molting so it can help determine between molting and death. 

FOOD
Decomposing plant parts
Fungi
Algae
Carcasses
Calcium-cuttlefish bone, powder, crushed egg shells washed
Dandelion blades and flowers (rich in calcium)
Common plantain (plantago major rich in calcium)
Carrot
Parsnip 
Romaine lettuce
Cucumber (not good for nutrients but good source of water)
Mushroom
Banana
Prickly pear fruit (rich in calcium)
Papaya (rich in calcium)
Apple
Pear
Banana
Fish food flakes
Dead new born mouse

DEFENSE
Millipedes can curl up and excrete a secretion which can be toxic to certain animals. Most of the species in the hobby of collecting create a harmless secretion to humans. Do not touch your eyes and mouth. I wouldn't touch anything. Your hands will become purple/blue/black as if stained by blackberry dye. Some people can be allergic. I have personally experienced this and kept latex gloves on me until dye was completely gone. I felt nothing but wanted to keep my hands protected. 

EXTRA
Millipedes can carry mites which clean the outer shell and between the legs. Make sure your millipedes don't get infested and completely covered. They can be annoying to humans so always remember to wash your hands before and after handling and caring for them. Make sure you wash all soap off and don't have lotion or anything on because millipedes are super sensitive.

Reactions: Like 1


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## MrMilli (Jul 2, 2013)

Hi Melissa,

I am getting a lot more confused now especially after I've put up the photos of Millipedes molting and shedding on the surface (especially if you refer to Photo #3). 

The color and size does look like my millis. Now I am assuming that Max & Molly are the same age (maybe siblings) and perhaps were molting during the same time. Is the crack on Max perhaps the sign of molting and the dark/black color inside is the new exoskeleton? 

BUT do Millipedes 'smells of death' when they molt and is it normal for small flies to linger around their body? (I feel stupid now)

confused...confused... confused...



MelissaDBrown said:


> Awwww I know it's so hard
> 
> I'm wondering since this particular species died but your other one is fine maybe something with the breeding, assuming they were related, or this particular species. I want to give you some information from my care sheet from my breeders and maybe it can help. I am also adding my own experiences and notes for you.
> 
> ...


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## MelissaDBrown (Jul 2, 2013)

Don't feel stupid! You are doing the right thing by asking and researching! The coloring could have been from molting but I don't think they give off an odor during a molt. I have never witnessed a molt so I can't be 100% sure. Also the flies could be from the food maybe? Where are they exactly? How long has the food been in there? Did you leave your babies how they were yesterday?


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## MrMilli (Jul 2, 2013)

Hey, thanks for the reply. Including tonight they have been motionless for almost 3 days. I have removed their pink guava from the terrarium on the first day I saw Molly not moving (Photo #1 in my first post) and the day after Max followed her (the one that has been curling strangely in photo #3 of my first post). In the last 8 months there were just like one or two flies except for the common mites on their bodies as I don't let the vegs & fruits to rot completely (and I notice they prefer the food a bit fresh rather than the dried up ones). The flies were in the terrarium after Molly went motionless and was pretty much on her body and next was Max. 



MelissaDBrown said:


> Don't feel stupid! You are doing the right thing by asking and researching! The coloring could have been from molting but I don't think they give off an odor during a molt. I have never witnessed a molt so I can't be 100% sure. Also the flies could be from the food maybe? Where are they exactly? How long has the food been in there? Did you leave your babies how they were yesterday?


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## MelissaDBrown (Jul 2, 2013)

How is the smell today? I haven't had an issue with flies but I saw a thread on here about someone who did have a problem with a lot of flies. I believe it's in this section so maybe that can help. I was thinking about what you said with this species not doing well in captivity. It doesn't sound good that the flies are all over them and the food is fresh. If only we knew what kind of millipede they are that could really help.


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## Cavedweller (Jul 3, 2013)

So sorry for your loss. 

The flies I had were fungus gnats, who are only interested in the substrate, not rotting carcasses. I don't imagine flies around a molting pede would be a good thing? 

I don't imagine overfeeding could be a hazard to millipedes. If you can't get leaves where you live, you might wanna take a trip to a park or something.


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## MrCrackerpants (Jul 3, 2013)

Yes, sorry for your loss.


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## SDCPs (Jul 5, 2013)

Those look like large animals. Perhaps the terrarium got too hot and they both could not take it, or perhaps they were just at the end of their lives. I do not know. But your setup seemed fine. Hardy animals should have survived and as you say the black ones are fine.


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