# same snake, still wont eat, now it's serious.



## fictitious (Apr 18, 2008)

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=121001

I was really hoping not to have to re-open this thread. To keep it short my friends corn snake (14", 7-8 months old, 11.8 grams) who refused to eat for the longest time finally ate! ...she regurgitated, after 2 days in the stomach it appeared as if it wasn't even being digested, the flesh was still on it. It is still behaving as any other snake I've seen. It refused to eat a brained mouse, and a brained rat (trust me, she could smell it). The strange thing is though, she pooped when we were offering food...:? almost as if she was holding onto the last meal (2 pinkie mice). I am flabbergasted, she shows no weakness, but hasn't eaten in over 3 months. She dosn't look skinny or anything!
Questions:
Can someone tell me the proper weight for this snake please?
What's the longest a snake has gone without eating?

She couldn't of been in a burmative state (I think) the tank has a heat pad and their room is usually about 75-80 from the other tank's heating. Has access to water.

She hasn't shed in this time either yet, but she's getting close, slowly. Should we wait for the next shed, or just force-feed her and hope she takes it?

Any and all advice is highly appreciated, thanks in advance.


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## loxoscelesfear (Apr 18, 2008)

this can be a frustrating situation.  i would try feeding a smaller food item, like a fuzzie, and see what happens.  so far as weight goes, so long as the snake's s spine and ribs aren't showing then the weight is fine. finally, i'd back the heat off.  do away with the heat pad altogether.  lower the temp to 70 max.  increasing the snake's metabolism w/ heat is not good, it will only dwindle away faster.  if none of this works, i'd say put the snake in the fridge, then to the freezer and end it's suffering and get a new snake.


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## fictitious (Apr 18, 2008)

They just moved into their basement which should cover the heat. It's being fed pinkies now (it's still just a baby). My main quarrel is the poop thing, it's been so long but it still had undigested matter. She either pooped out food, or she's digesting herself and that dosn't look like the case at all. My idea: ate, decided that was enough for a while (it looked like she swallowed a battery), enter shed stage, poop, shed within next week, eat again, plausible? I know a Crocodile can live on one huge meal a year, same with an Anaconda or something, but a baby corn snake? You tell me. I've told her we may have to put her out of her misery and she's come to terms with it, but I'd rather exhaust all other options first.

Is there a sheet with the proper weight for a snake this age and length.


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## loxoscelesfear (Apr 18, 2008)

sounds like they're doing all the right things, if youre worried about the poop thing, put the snake in some luke-warm water, that often stimulates a bowel movement in snakes.  however, this snake may not have anything to poo out if its been fasting so long.  i am not sure on a source for proper weight in snakes, but as i always advise: google it!


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## fictitious (Apr 18, 2008)

loxoscelesfear said:


> so far as weight goes, so long as the snake's s spine and ribs aren't showing then the weight is fine.


I'm still trying to find something on a proper weight, apparently nobody likes to keep track of the growth habbits of the most common snake in the pet trade. You think she could still be fine even after so long? I've always had snakes and some went on diets but at least I was able to monitor them everyday, I'm at a loss here. I beleive you misunderstood me though, she did poop, after nearly a 4 month fast she pooped, that's what's making me wonder. Mabey she's just perfectly fine....:?


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## Mister Internet (Apr 18, 2008)

if you are feeding it anything larger than pinky mouse at this point, you are overfeeding it.  terms like "brained mouse", and "brained rat" make me think it's just not interested because the prey item is too large... ?

Until the spine is stocking out of the top, the snake is in no danger of dying from starvation.


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## Elapid (Apr 18, 2008)

yeah,  keep the prey items extremely small until it's taken 3 meals without regurgitating. cooling it is not a good idea imo. one trick that worked surprisingly often was to place the pink mouse into a paper bag with the snake and roll the top closed and stick it back in the cage overnight.

good luck!
rob


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## ErinKelley (Apr 18, 2008)

*One other thing to check*

When I had groups of babies it would seem sometimes that some of them could not find the water bowl.  What I mean is I believe they must have been going AROUND the dish when wandering around.  Mind you I always had low wide water bowls and I would use the coco peat as substrate which they would stay under most the time.
Anyways every couple days or so I would gently pick them up and set the front ends of their bodies in the dish.  I was really surprised at how many would drink immediately, signifying to me that they had not done so recently and that could have been a future problem ya know.

Another thing is handling.  Hold off on handling animals that are having issues.  Any unnecessary stress should be avoided.  

Maybe try feeding in the late afternoon or at dusk with a live pinky not much bigger than gut of the snake.  If the snake has a good hiding spot keep that pinky right at the entrance, see if it can entice him out.  You can try all the prey choices like this: dead pinky, brained pinky, washed and scented pinky, etc.

Can you get us any pics of snake and tank??

Oh and I apologize for not being able to answer your growth/weight question 

Erin


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## fictitious (Apr 18, 2008)

eklly said:


> When I had groups of babies it would seem sometimes that some of them could not find the water bowl.  What I mean is I believe they must have been going AROUND the dish when wandering around.  Mind you I always had low wide water bowls and I would use the coco peat as substrate which they would stay under most the time.
> Anyways every couple days or so I would gently pick them up and set the front ends of their bodies in the dish.  I was really surprised at how many would drink immediately, signifying to me that they had not done so recently and that could have been a future problem ya know.


I'm inclined to beleive this is a major contributor to it's refusal to eat food. You make a good point with this statement, thanks.  I'll have them give this a shot, at least if it drinks that's a good sign.




Elapid said:


> yeah,  keep the prey items extremely small until it's taken 3 meals without regurgitating. cooling it is not a good idea imo. one trick that worked surprisingly often was to place the pink mouse into a paper bag with the snake and roll the top closed and stick it back in the cage overnight.


This sounds verydisturbing for some reason,;P  but very logical at the same time. We've left pinkies in the tank but they were untouched, we'll try this also, thanks.



Mister Internet said:


> if you are feeding it anything larger than pinky mouse at this point, you are overfeeding it.  terms like "brained mouse", and "brained rat" make me think it's just not interested because the prey item is too large... ?
> 
> Until the spine is stocking out of the top, the snake is in no danger of dying from starvation.


It has eaten pinkie rats but nothing ever bigger, I'm thinking it's last meal was too big (2 pinkie mice), would that cause it to go on a fast? What I'm really liking to hear though is that unless the spine is showing it's not in danger from starvation, I really think she's going to like to hear that.

I appreciate all your guy's help in this matter, unfortunately I don't have pics but I will get some when I go over there some time tonight. I'm hoping at least one of you will flame me for being so paranoid about someone elses snake who has nothing wrong with it when I post these pics Thanks again, I'll get pics posted A.S.A.P..


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## Mushroom Spore (Apr 18, 2008)

fictitious said:


> This sounds verydisturbing for some reason,;P  but very logical at the same time. We've left pinkies in the tank but they were untouched, we'll try this also, thanks.


Similar tactics have helped when my ball python is feeling a bit too ADD to focus on eating his food. If you close them up in a paper bag or shoebox (locked back inside the tank so they won't get lost in your house if they get out of the bag/box) and leave it for a while, they won't have anything exciting distracting them from the food right in front of their face. *Eventually* mine would usually settle down and eat his food by morning.

Just don't wait too long to check it, dead rodents get pretty vile if not eaten overnight. Phew!


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## GailC (Apr 18, 2008)

Try feeding her a anole or at least scenting the pink with one. I had a corn hatchling that went months only eating anole scented pinks.


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## DrJ (Apr 22, 2008)

Well, the poop could be from:
1. past digested food
2. fat storage - simply a guess as I've had snakes go months without eating and then suddenly poop from out of the blue as well.  (the digestion of fat storage)

Proper weight is kind of an unknown, as every snake has its own ideal weight.  You should be keeping track of the weight as it grows, especially if it goes off feed.  If serious weight loss is occurring, then you know it's time to do something drastic.  Otherwise, it may be fine and just trying to burmate itself...we did just come out of winter after all.  I'm hoping this is why a couple of my males stopped eating a couple months ago.  

If the cornsnake regurged a pinky, it will not be eating anything of any size for a long time.  This is when you should start regurgitation therapy.  Try getting a copy of Don Soderberg's book regarding cornsnakes, called Cornsnakes in Captivity.  It has a good outline on this.  But, when she does start eating again, you will just want to feed her a pinky head.  Then, maybe half a pinkie after two weeks of that, and just keep increasing the amount every couple weeks untill she is back where she was.  This may slow the growth, but it's better to be smaller than dead.  Regurgitation can ultimately kill a snake, so this is serious stuff.  Also, I agree with what Mr. Internet was saying regarding trying to feed it too much.  Powerfeeding can be detrimental to the health of the animal as well.  Pinkie rats are much bigger than 2 combined pinkie mice.  Were these pinkies frozen or live?  If frozen, were they completely thawed and warm when fed to the snake?  If there was any part of the mouse still cold, that is the only thing food related that would cause fasting, as the cold part messes with the snake's digestive tract.  

If you haven't been keeping track of the snake's weight, you REALLY need to!  You can get a postal gram scale at walmart for about $20.  Or, visit a kitchen supply store.  Anyway, get a gramscale, record its weight and let us know.  Remember, cornsnakes are born at about 7 or 8 grams, so that's just a basis of where to start.  If a lot of weight is being lost, you will have to force feed it...maybe some pinkie parts, or get a pinkie pump (these are really gross...pretty much blends the mouse) and give it a little bit.  NOT A FULL PINKIE!  Not since it has regurged.  It will be a couple months before it is ready to go back to what it's used to eating when it starts eating on its own.  Anyway, hope this helps.  Keep us posted.  And, if you need anything, let us know and we'll try to help you out as best we can.  These are rough situations, and I've been there.  We'll just keep hoping for the best.


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