# brown recluse



## pandinus (Jul 5, 2004)

do you think it would be safe to feed some of these to my scorps? the house has loads of them, and they look rather weak. they couldn't bite through a scorp's exoskeleton could they?


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## carpe scorpio (Jul 5, 2004)

Maybe if you are keeping Centruroides, but even if they weren't a potential threat to a scorp, they are nothing that I would be getting near, you might get bitten and they have necrotic venom.


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## Brian S (Jul 5, 2004)

I would say that your scorps would eat 'em right up. It would be very hard for the spider to get a good bite on the scorp


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## J Morningstar (Jul 5, 2004)

I wouldn't put my self at that kind of risk. The bite is potentially the worst thing I have ever seen a venom do in my entier life. Just to get them into the house would put everyone inside at risk of a horrible disfiguring injury requiering reconstructive surgery.  
 There has to be other spiders to feed them.


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## pandinus (Jul 5, 2004)

they practically infest my house, so i see them just about everyday, and would like to come up with a more creative way to kill them. There is a possibility that they are brown spiders, but all the ones i see have the little marking on their carapace or whatev it is on a spider. i thought that this was unique to the recluse.


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## carpe scorpio (Jul 5, 2004)

Could you possibly tape a cotton ball on a long stick and soak it in rubbing alcohol and place it against one until it dies and post a pic of it?.


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## Fergrim (Jul 5, 2004)

http://www.acponline.org/graphics/bioterro/canthrax/brown_spider2.jpg  Brown recluse bite :/

http://www.emedicinehealth.com/images/4453/4453-4474-10729-25040.jpg  and another :/

and the last..  http://www.highway60.com/mark/brs/images/bite_164a.jpg

I wouldn't want to live in a house infested with spiders that can do that!  ouch!


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## pandinus (Jul 5, 2004)

carpe scorpio said:
			
		

> Could you possibly tape a cotton ball on a long stick and soak it in rubbing alcohol and place it against one until it dies and post a pic of it?.


LOL! i think you are all overestimating their danger a little. i may have gotten tagged by one before many years ago, but we couldnt comfirm the biter, as i recieved it in my sleep. i still have a small scar on my chest, but it was never that bad. apart from that incident, i have been living in this house for almost 9 years, and this is the only spider bite anyone has recieved in al that time.
still, i will try to nab a few and post em.


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## edesign (Jul 5, 2004)

overestimating the danger eh? i'd like you to tell that to a couple people i know down here that have been bitten by them....


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## leiurus (Jul 5, 2004)

They aren't so agressive... Is there an antivenom?
Dom


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## pandinus (Jul 5, 2004)

they aren't at all aggressive. btw, i found one about 5 min after carpe's request, and it is currently in alchohol.


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## Fergrim (Jul 5, 2004)

you saw the bite pictures, right?  And the worst part is that supposedly the bite is painless, so that you don't even know what happened and one day you get a nice oozy bit of rotting flesh.  yay.


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## pandinus (Jul 5, 2004)

yeah, the bite pics are how we determined what got me.


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## edesign (Jul 5, 2004)

leiurus said:
			
		

> They aren't so agressive... Is there an antivenom?
> Dom


not so much aggressive but they can be made to bite...if you roll over on them in your sleep or accidentally half-squish em. and that's right, the bite isn't all that painful, in fact most people never notice it. But the reaction is quite noticeable.

as for an antivenom there are treatments available. one of my old neighbors got bit by one on a school field trip (she's a teacher) and somehow they caught it quickly, got her to the doctor and gave her some medicine (and a shot? i forget...i can ask her) and it didn't develop much more than a red area with a lil white spot in the middle. No real damage luckily


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## pandinus (Jul 5, 2004)

mine rotted a little, but didn't really spread at all.


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## pandinus (Jul 5, 2004)

AAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!
I thought it was dead!!!
I took it out and positioned it about 20 min ago, but the legs curled under, so i tried to reposition them, and it came to life, scrambling like a madman! EEEEEK!!!


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## carpe scorpio (Jul 5, 2004)

pandinus said:
			
		

> they aren't at all aggressive. btw, i found one about 5 min after carpe's request, and it is currently in alchohol.


Man, you got too many spiders in your house, I would feed them all to the scorps and decimate their population.


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## pandinus (Jul 5, 2004)

carpe scorpio said:
			
		

> Man, you got too many spiders in your house,


brother, are you telling me!


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## carpe scorpio (Jul 5, 2004)

"release The Gecko!!!!"


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## pandinus (Jul 5, 2004)

Gecko my @$$ get me a D@MN KOMODO DRAGON!! I have it in a vial of rubbing alcohol that is 70% by volume, and it is still not dead!!!


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## pandinus (Jul 5, 2004)

....doobie doobie doo, still not dead  .......


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## carpe scorpio (Jul 5, 2004)

I use 99%, but that is still one bada** spider!.


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## pandinus (Jul 5, 2004)

still not dead.....


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## Fergrim (Jul 5, 2004)

seriously.  What the hell is up with  that spider... man, let it bite you.. maybe you'll get super spider powers!


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## pandinus (Jul 5, 2004)

i think it finally died.


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## leiurus (Jul 5, 2004)

Yes, you'll be like Spider-Man! You won't have a poor sight.


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## pandinus (Jul 6, 2004)

okay, here it is, the spider that would not die, but i got em in the end.


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## pandinus (Jul 6, 2004)

what do you guys think, is it really a fiddleback?


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## carpe scorpio (Jul 6, 2004)

Sure looks like a male L. reclusa to me, man, be careful!.


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## pandinus (Jul 6, 2004)

oh, would you just rela-OWWWWW!!!! OH GOD THE PAIN!! AUGHHH!

just kidding, don't worry. still, the big ones only seem to come out when i'm barefoot, which really sucks.


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## edesign (Jul 6, 2004)

carpe scorpio said:
			
		

> Sure looks like a male L. reclusa to me, man, be careful!.


i concur...got the fiddle on the back, tell-tale sign


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## Scorpie (Jul 6, 2004)

i had never heard of this spider, i did a quick search on google and found one of the horible pictures ive ever seen. a man got biten of the face and half his face was off. what a horible spider, i would get exterminators down there quick smart. get your inverts out though.


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## NYbirdEater (Jul 6, 2004)

pandinus said:
			
		

> do you think it would be safe to feed some of these to my scorps? the house has loads of them, and they look rather weak. they couldn't bite through a scorp's exoskeleton could they?


Watch out for those recluses, they are nothing to mess with. I'd take a bite from my T's or my scorps before getting near one of those things. Very toxic to humans.


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## Brian S (Jul 6, 2004)

The Brown Recluse Spider is found in probably 80% of homes in their range. You can put fly tape on the floor and that will get many of them. Sprays won't kill them unless you spray it directly on the spider. Pandinus, it sounds like you have a nice infestation of them. Be careful !!!!!!!!!


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## pandinus (Jul 6, 2004)

yeah, they arent so bad. they really don't bug me, i just kill them when i see them.


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## pandinus (Jul 6, 2004)

whoa! new record! i nabbed one within 3 minutes!!!


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## Fergrim (Jul 6, 2004)

oh wow.. again, I am so glad that I don't have that many spiders in my house with necrotic venom.


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## NYbirdEater (Jul 6, 2004)

pandinus said:
			
		

> yeah, they arent so bad. they really don't bug me, i just kill them when i see them.


Being you think they aren't so bad here's a picture of what happens from a bite, I've even seen worse.


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## Fergrim (Jul 6, 2004)

earlier this thread I posted a bunch of links to bite photos too..  It's scary. 

Their bites look like tropical ulcers of the prisoners of the japanese in wwII.


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## carpe scorpio (Jul 6, 2004)

Did anyone happen to know that the scorpion, Hemiscorpion lepturus, also produces such necrotic ulcerations?. BTW, that's just nasty.


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## Fergrim (Jul 6, 2004)

ooh, I didn't know.

Any other scorps do that?


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## NYbirdEater (Jul 6, 2004)

carpe scorpio said:
			
		

> Did anyone happen to know that the scorpion, Hemiscorpion lepturus, also produces such necrotic ulcerations?. BTW, that's just nasty.


Sorry carpe, just trying to make a point that they shouldn't be taken lightly


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## carpe scorpio (Jul 6, 2004)

NYBE, I totally realize that, I was only trying to re-scorpionize a spider ridden thread.


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## NYbirdEater (Jul 6, 2004)

carpe scorpio said:
			
		

> NYBE, I totally realize that, I was only trying to re-scorpionize a spider ridden thread.


Carpe do you have any pics of that scorp you mentioned, also there's a post with a scorp eating a black widow, don't see why it couldn't take a recluse no problem.


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## Fergrim (Jul 6, 2004)

Yeah, I wouldn't be worried for the scorp at all.  It's just that..

1) His home is filled with brown recluse and
2) he's running about trying to catch them 

I think that's what everyone's all excited about


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## pandinus (Jul 6, 2004)

NYbirdEater said:
			
		

> Sorry carpe, just trying to make a point that they shouldn't be taken lightly


i was not refering to their venom, i meant that they are not very agressive, and usually run from confrontation. Believe me, i know what they can do.


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## carpe scorpio (Jul 7, 2004)

NYbirdEater said:
			
		

> Carpe do you have any pics of that scorp you mentioned, also there's a post with a scorp eating a black widow, don't see why it couldn't take a recluse no problem.


No, there aren't but two photos of it in existence as far as I know, and it lives in Iran if memory serves. Now, first off,(1) I do think that the L. reclusa poses a serious threat to Pandinus(John), (2) this spider is as good as munched as far as any scorp that finds one, especially C. vittatus, since they have a "thing" for spiders.


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## pandinus (Jul 7, 2004)

well, that which does not suck the life from me, only serves to make me stronger, plus, again, I have been living with them for at least 9 years. i'm not saying they are not dangerous, i am just saying that i do not feel threatened by them. they primarily live in my basement. but sometimes wander up. in any case, most are not very big, and i have seen much much bigger.


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## carpe scorpio (Jul 7, 2004)

Sorry John, I really do feel that all of us here still see this as one of our own in harm's way, be *&%$#@ careful.


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## Fausta (Jul 7, 2004)

My friend in Wichita who owns the World Treasures museum has them in his house as well. He has these sticky traps in the corners and under his bed and there are always bunches of the things stuck to them. He has never been bitten  by one nor has any of his family members. It still seems like just a matter of time. Those things just give me the creeps.
Kelly


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## NYbirdEater (Jul 7, 2004)

carpe scorpio said:
			
		

> Sorry John, I really do feel that all of us here still see this as one of our own in harm's way, be *&%$#@ careful.


ditto                      .


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## Gravy (Jul 7, 2004)

Ermmm No seriously Id make some kind of trench round my bed with my desert hairies/ dune scorps in.

That would so freak me out be careful ! Mebbes you should let your evil emp share your bed with you to scare off them spiders


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## PIter (Jul 8, 2004)

Gravy said:
			
		

> Ermmm No seriously Id make some kind of trench round my bed with my desert hairies/ dune scorps in.
> 
> That would so freak me out be careful !


That sounds like a good idea! Just make sure they don't decide to visit you during the night. ;P


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## protheus (Jul 8, 2004)

NYbirdEater said:
			
		

> Watch out for those recluses, they are nothing to mess with. I'd take a bite from my T's or my scorps before getting near one of those things. Very toxic to humans.


I'd wonder whether "very toxic" is the appropriate phrase.  Certainly nothing to mess around with, but they only cause necrotic tissue damage.  (Nothing to worry about there  )  Ok, what I mean is that systemic effects seem rare, if they exist at all, so the biggest danger from the bite is the danger of secondary infection.  Yes, it could leave a large scar, but unless I'm missing something, it would be very difficult for a bite to turn life threatening.

That said, if they can bite through a scorpion claw, or strike fast enough to stop an on-coming telson, I would be very surprised.

Chris


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## pandinus (Jul 8, 2004)

essentially, if they can kill a scorp, they deserve the meal.


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## Zach33 (Jul 8, 2004)

protheus said:
			
		

> I'd wonder whether "very toxic" is the appropriate phrase.  Certainly nothing to mess around with, but they only cause necrotic tissue damage.  (Nothing to worry about there  )  Ok, what I mean is that systemic effects seem rare, if they exist at all, so the biggest danger from the bite is the danger of secondary infection.  Yes, it could leave a large scar, but unless I'm missing something, it would be very difficult for a bite to turn life threatening.
> 
> That said, if they can bite through a scorpion claw, or strike fast enough to stop an on-coming telson, I would be very surprised.
> 
> Chris



I believe if untreated the hole from the bite will just continue to get larger and larger.   I could see this being life threatening if you were unable to somehow reach medical attention for ALONG time...    :?


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## edesign (Jul 8, 2004)

Zach33 said:
			
		

> I believe if untreated the hole from the bite will just continue to get larger and larger.   I could see this being life threatening if you were unable to somehow reach medical attention for ALONG time...    :?


correct...

also, the damage that occurs, especially if it starts to make a "crater" doesn't usually heal on it's own. meaning...you get to have a hole in your body permanently, unless you have surgery of course. lady i used to work with got bit on the leg (calf iirc) and she had a hole about as big around as a 50 cent piece there permanently...maybe 1/8" deep.


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## Raan_Jodus (Jul 8, 2004)

so,  you guys have some normal way of slowing this venom?  Or is it just a matter of going to the hospital?


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## NYbirdEater (Jul 8, 2004)

Raan_Jodus said:
			
		

> so,  you guys have some normal way of slowing this venom?  Or is it just a matter of going to the hospital?


I'd say definite trip to make sure it's cleaned out good and take meds as soon as possible.


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## Stormcrow (Jul 15, 2004)

Believe me, Brown Recluses don't want to warm up to human beings neither desire to bite us. Chill. Personally I would love to take a couple off your hands. About feeding them to your scorps, there is not a more perfectly adapted hunter of spiders than a scorpion. But not your big emperors they are liable to ignore the unknown biochemical threat. Brown Recluses are quite sneaky opportunistic killers, but a Centruroides should be able to deal with one immediately. Mainly due to setae hairs over it's body and pectines (comb-like appendages) beneath it's body, that act as movement detectors and chemical receptors. Once the Brown Recluse scuttles the Centruroides should be all over it like flies on you know what. But if they are well fed they (scorps) may just ignore the spiders and then you have a true concern. Scorpions could be well armoured with their hard chitin (exoskeleton) against potential Recluse attacks. There is risk involved.


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## woijchik89 (Jul 15, 2004)

PANDINUS! You're crazy!!!!! Those things suck! I got bit by one, ot pleasant! Dude, you're nutz! I'd rather have my house infested with Israeli deathstalkers!!! Be CaReFuLL!!! 
I send you gecko's of many, get rid of the DANG THINGS! 
I found one of those suckers outside the other day! RUN!!!!!!!!!!!

~Be_CaReFuL_cRaZy_DuDe!~

-Ben


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## errit (Jul 15, 2004)

On television once I saw a scorpion that was catched and eaten by a black widow. If the black widow can bite the scorpion to death, why shouldn't a brown recluse be able to do that.


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## protheus (Jul 15, 2004)

errit said:
			
		

> On television once I saw a scorpion that was catched and eaten by a black widow. If the black widow can bite the scorpion to death, why shouldn't a brown recluse be able to do that.



I think it's a matter of not getting the chance, actually.  Generally speaking it ought to be difficult, though, to get through the exoskeleton, unless you have a really lucky spider.

On another, somewhat twisted subject, how about gut-loading the recluse? 

In all seriousness, though, that's a nasty bite.  I'd stay away from them.  Don't know many spiders that can cause that much tissue damage.

Chris


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## leiurus (Jul 15, 2004)

errit said:
			
		

> On television once I saw a scorpion that was catched and eaten by a black widow. If the black widow can bite the scorpion to death, why shouldn't a brown recluse be able to do that.


yes, but the scorpion felt in the black widow's web. So, it wasn't capable of moving or stinging the spider.
Dom


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## woijchik89 (Jul 15, 2004)

protheus said:
			
		

> I think it's a matter of not getting the chance, actually.  Generally speaking it ought to be difficult, though, to get through the exoskeleton, unless you have a really lucky spider.
> 
> On another, somewhat twisted subject, how about gut-loading the recluse?
> 
> ...


It also depends on the scorpion it was eating. Some of the more smaller scorps have weaker armour.
Age is also something to consider.


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## woijchik89 (Jul 15, 2004)

Stll Pandinus, have you NOT seen this thread!?!!!!!!!

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=28790&highlight=brown+recluse+bite


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## Stormcrow (Jul 15, 2004)

The differences between a Loxosceles and Latrodectus are universal particularly in their predacious behavior. Loxosceles is a wandering hunter and Latrodectus is a cobweb opportunistic killer. A scorpion that gets caught in her silken trap, bears very slim chance of escaping or winning, unless the scorpion can power itself free from the silk without entangling itself further. Until then the Latrodectus has been alerted by the prey item struggling in her silk and pursues, flying at the scorpion staying out of the striking and grasping distance of the scorpion's lethal sting and crushing pedipalps, pouring silk all over the poor arachnid, guaranteeing it's inevitable doom. Once she has it incapacitated, wound up in silk, and she goes in for the kill, usually the tip of a leg. Whereas, Loxosceles being a wandering predator, plays more into the scorpion's favor, but it can still potentially bite the scorp yet highly unlikely given the tools a scorpion has as stated in my previous post.


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## habeas scorpius (Jul 15, 2004)

you should release your hemiscorpius into your basement for some time and see whether he can reduce your infestation of spiders.  i personally wouldn't want to change scorpions in mid-stream, though.


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## Stormcrow (Jul 16, 2004)

I think a Hemiscorpius would be ill equipped to deal with a Loxosceles infestation. Centruriodes is perfect though because Recluses are small spiders.


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