# Male & Female Ball python communal living arrangements



## DanHalen (Apr 25, 2006)

I got my breeding pair of young adult ball pythons today. This will be my first attempt at breeding a non-invert  I'm taking them to the vets tomorrow for a healthcheck. They are both close to the same age, hatched in '04. I'll do length and weight at the vets tomorrow, but to me, both seem to weigh more than a kilo.

I've been doing alot of research into the subject, and have been getting alot of conflicting information. Some people saying Balls are known for cannibalism, but then again, alot more people saying that they can be somewhat communal...

Currently they are both housed in a 55 gallon vivarium with a thermal gradient, moonlight, deep water dish, and two large hide boxes. Neither have appeared aggressive in any manner as of yet. One seems very curious, and exploratory, whilst the other is a little more secretive. I've never housed snakes together before, and reading a couple of reports on cannibalism has got me a little worried.... But how else are they supposed to get it on? 

Any of you guys have any experiences to share in regards to housing a male & female ball?

Worst comes to worst, I can always go out and buy another vivarium. 

I would very much appreciate any thoughts on the matter.


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## Mushroom Spore (Apr 25, 2006)

DanHalen said:
			
		

> I've been doing alot of research into the subject, and have been getting alot of conflicting information. Some people saying Balls are known for cannibalism, but then again, alot more people saying that they can be somewhat communal...


Balls are not as often cannibalistic as colubrids (like corns) are, but they are. "Somewhat communal" does not mean 100% safe.  What IS likely with ball pythons housed together is stress problems. One or both may refuse to feed as a result of the stress of another snake in their living space. And of course, if one gets sick the other will, if one smells prey on the other there may be a bite, and all the usual issues.

I am not familiar with the whole process of getting them ready to breed, but I do believe it may be more complicated than just housing them together anyway.


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## ErikH (Apr 25, 2006)

I don't know all of the ins and outs of ball python breeding, but it is more than just housing them together.  I belive the breeding response is triggered by light/dark cycles and night temperature drops.  There are websites devoted to this, you should try an internet search.  I also think a 55 gallon enclosure is rather big for ball pythons, unless you divide it.  Housing them communally is likely to cause them to stop feeding, and cannibalism is a posibility as well.  You will likely need an incubator for eggs as well.


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## DanHalen (Apr 25, 2006)

Yeah. I've done research into the light cycles etc, and the "cooling off" or brumation period, so on and so forth. And I've also read about people who have had success without cooling periods and permanent cohabitation (an example is here- Yes, I know this ones specifically about boas  ) I've also been researching the construction of an incubator. And the addition of a fake moon aparrently helps promote breeding responses....

In regards to cannibilisation, I've not seen any examples of adult BP's. And in pretty much all the cases of any snake (apart from King) I've seen, mostly young juv's. I've also read that the most likely time is during shipping. They were both shipped to me curled up in the same bag with no signs of fighting. But I realise that it's not a 100% guarantee.

I've two large hides in the 55 gallon - One for the hot end, and one for the cooler end. It looks like a good size for a pair (to me anyway - please feel free to educate me). They are both currently in the cool end. One's in the hide box, the others curled up behind it. I figured that a large viv with "personal" space would be a more acceptable living space for more than one specimen.

I'm more concerned about stress issues, as Mushroom Spore highlighted. However, I've seen more successfull examples of cohabitation, than unsuccessful ones. Feeding (which I'll leave for a week), would be done separately, outside of the tank.

I've also read that after feeding, it would be a good idea to isolate the snake in a small separate enclosure for 12-24 hours to lessen "rodent breath" and significantly reduce the chance of accidental cannibalism. This method would likely take up significantly less room than having two full setup's, and may eliviate feeding issues as neither will come into contact with each other directly after feeding.


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## ErikH (Apr 25, 2006)

If you are going to keep them together all the time, I would add two hides to each side, so that one doesn't have to be outside of the hide.  Also, if one snake should get a RI, they both will have it,so you will double your vet bill.  Of course, even if they were kept separate, if one came down with something after mating, the other would likely need to be checked out as well.


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## DanHalen (Apr 25, 2006)

ErikH said:
			
		

> If you are going to keep them together all the time, I would add two hides to each side, so that one doesn't have to be outside of the hide.  Also, if one snake should get a RI, they both will have it,so you will double your vet bill.  Of course, even if they were kept separate, if one came down with something after mating, the other would likely need to be checked out as well.


I was thinking along the same lines. In regards to the hides, I'll try and get that sorted. However, they are sharing the same one at the moment.

[Edit] Just went back to check on them (It's about 2:30am), and they are in the hide box quite snug. One has it's head resting on top of the other. Neither is in a defensive ball position.


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