# H. swammerdami mating



## jwanthony (Apr 23, 2011)

So here's the story...
I got two adult H. swammerdami on Tuesday (04/19/11) 
and both were 'supposedly' females because that's what was written on the labels.
However, the larger female did act a little bit strange and I was wondering what would happen if I put them together. 
So on Thursday (04/21/11) when I came home at 5:30pm, I placed the larger female into relatively smaller one's cage. 
...and that's how it happened. The larger female turned out to be a mature male and they just started mating. 
Funny thing was that the female had a mealworm in her mouth before the mating and the male snatched the mealworm from the female's mouth during the mating process. 
Mating took about a little more than 1.5 hr (5:30 pm ~ 7:10 pm). Spermatophore was collected and looked like everything went pretty well in terms of successful mating. It has been only for two days since they mated but the female is now eating like crazy. 
I would love to hear any comments on this. Thanks!

Anthony Park

[YOUTUBE]XXonbh9byyA[/YOUTUBE]


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## scorpionmom (Apr 23, 2011)

Wow, you're the first breeder I have seen in this country with such quick success. High demand has been for this species recently. I'm glad it was successful.

You probably do not keep them in there, but that container they mated in is very small, even for one. Just to help.

You also probably know all the things you have to do to successfully raise the young (seperate the mother, high humidiy, etc.). Great job!


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## gromgrom (Apr 23, 2011)

grats! but next time, use a piece of bark or a rock for him to deposit the spermaphore on.


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## jwanthony (Apr 23, 2011)

scorpionmom said:


> Wow, you're the first breeder I have seen in this country with such quick success. High demand has been for this species recently. I'm glad it was successful.
> 
> You probably do not keep them in there, but that container they mated in is very small, even for one. Just to help.
> 
> You also probably know all the things you have to do to successfully raise the young (seperate the mother, high humidiy, etc.). Great job!


Thanks !! 
Yeah, that's just a temporary home for them cause I have to move next month.
But I'll get a bigger and nicer home for them after that for sure.

---------- Post added at 01:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:29 PM ----------




gromgrom said:


> grats! but next time, use a piece of bark or a rock for him to deposit the spermaphore on.


That's right I got pretty lucky on spermatophore positioning. 
But I never anticipated for this cause I thought both were females.
Next time I breed any scorpions, I should remember to put a piece of bark or something like you said.
Thanks for the advice!!


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## Galapoheros (Apr 23, 2011)

You should feel really good hoping for offspring!  Hey do you see any sexual dimorphism, except the poss of males generally being bigger, ...don't know if that's the case or not.  I find "zero" info about how to sex these things, I have a few juvs.  Anything diff about the pectines, comparing the two sexes.  If you get interested enough, you can put each in a freezer bag and take pics underneath them that way.


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## scorpionmom (Apr 23, 2011)

Galapoheros said:


> You should feel really good hoping for offspring!  Hey do you see any sexual dimorphism, except the poss of males generally being bigger, ...don't know if that's the case or not.  I find "zero" info about how to sex these things, I have a few juvs.  Anything diff about the pectines, comparing the two sexes.  If you get interested enough, you can put each in a freezer bag and take pics underneath them that way.


Yeah, that might help a lot of people along the way.


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## Galapoheros (Apr 23, 2011)

scorpionmom said:


> Yeah, that might help a lot of people along the way.



YEAH it would!:razz:


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## jwanthony (Apr 24, 2011)

Galapoheros said:


> You should feel really good hoping for offspring!  Hey do you see any sexual dimorphism, except the poss of males generally being bigger, ...don't know if that's the case or not.  I find "zero" info about how to sex these things, I have a few juvs.  Anything diff about the pectines, comparing the two sexes.  If you get interested enough, you can put each in a freezer bag and take pics underneath them that way.


LOL you guys...

Well I hope this helps!!


Heterometrus swammerdami Female Chela







Heterometrus swammerdami Male Chela







Heterometrus swammerdami Female Ventral Shot







Heterometrus swammerdami Male Ventral Shot







Heterometrus swammerdami Mature Female







Hetrometrus swammerdami Mature Male






In terms of color difference, female has more light brown color compared to almost black-colored male but I heard that females tend to get darker as they age. But so far, it's very easy to tell them apart by color difference.

Regarding pectin counts, as you can see in the picture,

Female: 16 X 16
Male: 18 X 17

only one or two diffs for each right and left side.
Overall shape of the sexual organs...? 
I'm not sure if there is something I can tell it right away. 
Maybe you guys can.

Chelae look a little bit different as male's looks more bulbous(?) and female's looks slightly more slender.

Hope this helps and I'm open to any comments or additional photo.
And sorry about the bad quality on male's ventral shot. 
He was hissing and being very aggressive today.


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## Galapoheros (Apr 24, 2011)

You certainly delivered, thanks!  Well now I see why I can't find any info on sexing them.  It looks like there is not a whole lot of visual diff between the sexes going by the pics you took.  It looks like it's best to go with the odds on pectine tooth count but maybe not something to depend on 100%.


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## Jarvis (Apr 24, 2011)

Your so lucky, I'm still trying to get mine to mate, I hope it's soon. At first I saw them walking over and around each other, now I don't see them around each other that much. I was thinking of moving them into a smaller tank (there in a 55 gallon) so they won't have to look for each other. best of luck to you and raising the offspring.


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## jwanthony (Apr 24, 2011)

Galapoheros said:


> You certainly delivered, thanks!  Well now I see why I can't find any info on sexing them.  It looks like there is not a whole lot of visual diff between the sexes going by the pics you took.  It looks like it's best to go with the odds on pectine tooth count but maybe not something to depend on 100%.


yeah it's really hard to tell them apart by just looking at the underside. 
Like you said, I would recommand counting pectin tooth but not something totally reliable because it's only one or two differences.

---------- Post added at 01:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:02 AM ----------




Jarvis said:


> Your so lucky, I'm still trying to get mine to mate. I hope it's soon, they walked over and around each other at first, now I don't see them around each other much. I was thinking of moving them into a smaller tank (there in a 55 gallon) so they won't have to go around looking for each other. best of luck to you and raising the offspring.



I left them separate in a small container (guess it's way too small) for 2 days and (accidentally) placed the male into the female's site and then, the male just rushed to the female for mating. I personally think putting males apart from females for a while helps males to get ready for mating cause I've seen similar behaviors on my emperor scorpions. But this case, I didn't even plan it out so I guess I was also really lucky.


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## Michiel (Apr 24, 2011)

:clap::clap: Fantastic pictures and they show various mating behaviours: the sexual sting, cheliceral massage, chela grasping etc etc...
I did feel a bit sorry for them that they had to mate in such a small enclosure, but maybe it helped the romantic ambiance.....

Reactions: Like 1


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## jwanthony (Apr 24, 2011)

Michiel said:


> :clap::clap: Fantastic pictures and they show various mating behaviours: the sexual sting, cheliceral massage, chela grasping etc etc...
> I did feel a bit sorry for them that they had to mate in such a small enclosure, but maybe it helped the romantic ambiance.....


Thanx!! I'm glad you liked the pictures. I did feel sorry for them too when I was watching them mating in that small container but there was nothing I could do cause I never thought they would mate each other. But it was pretty interesting that they were so focused on mating and didn't care at all if I took photos or videos of them.


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## AzJohn (Apr 24, 2011)

I might be getting a female. If I do would you be willing to loan me the male for a week or two. We could work somthing out.

JOhn

Reactions: Like 1


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## Envyizm (Apr 24, 2011)

Very good documentation of the species.


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## jwanthony (Apr 24, 2011)

AzJohn said:


> I might be getting a female. If I do would you be willing to loan me the male for a week or two. We could work somthing out.
> 
> JOhn


Well when you get a female, you can send me a PM or something.
Just let me know how you would want to work this out.
I'm open to any suggestions and I would love to help.
By the way, I love your G. ankarana. What a beautiful scorp!! 


---------- Post added at 12:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:51 PM ----------




Envyizm said:


> Very good documentation of the species.


Thanks!! 
I just wish I could keep up with the rest of the works I'll be facing in the future like getting babies and raising them and etc. I've bred B. jacksoni before but this is the first time breeding large scorpion species so I'm kind of nervous.


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## Bayushi (Apr 25, 2011)

jwanthony-  From what I have read you got a long wait til the brood is born, so there is no point in being nervous... well not yet anyways.

Good luck with the mating and keep us updated.


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## jwanthony (Apr 25, 2011)

Bayushi said:


> jwanthony-  From what I have read you got a long wait til the brood is born, so there is no point in being nervous... well not yet anyways.
> 
> Good luck with the mating and keep us updated.


I will!! I saw other breeding information on this species and looks like I have at least more than 15 months from now so I guess you're right, I really don't need to get nervous. But thanks for the advice!!


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## jwanthony (Aug 17, 2011)

*Pectine shots from 3 different H. swammerdami for comparison*






This is an adult male Heterometrus swammerdami I got recently. 

I decided to take a photo from his ventral side for comparison with other two that I already had. 






Although it's pretty hard to tell by just looking at this picture, 

this guy looked more similar to an adult male that I had, compared to the female.

Here are the pictures of the rest of the ones that I have.

The other adult male






Adult female






Any suggestions or opinions?


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## Jarvis (Aug 18, 2011)

Amazing pics. The only differnce I can til between my pair is that the female is fatter, but a little shorter then the male, other than that they look almost the same. I find that the pectinel count over laps between the sexes (which is the case among several Heterometrus sp.) and isn't very reliable. I had a male that I thought was a female since the pectinel count was differnet from my current males, but the same as my females.


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## jwanthony (Aug 18, 2011)

*sizes for two swammerdami mated*

Female





Male






I'm just showing how big they really are and these pictures should clear things up.

Well they might not be the largest one you've seen in your life, 

but certainly big enough for me and I'm very happy keeping these scorpions.

Bah! They are small..(even though I don't think so)


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## Jarvis (Aug 19, 2011)

looks like the female is around 5.5 inches and the male is closer to 6 (measuring from the mouth to the end of the teleson). mine are about the same size, I haven't seen any that were much bigger in the hobby.


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## Galapoheros (Aug 20, 2011)

Thanks a lot for the pics!  I give up on trying to sex the ones over here, not completely though, maybe there is a trend with the tooth count but obviously nothing to depend on.  So far going by your pics, the odds are that I prob have a pair or two so at least it made me feel better lol.  Yeah the "size thing" has been sensationalized I think.  I think, "on average", they may be only slightly larger than emps.  I remember reading that the documented difference in the record length between emps and swammers was only something like 1/4 of an inch.  So there maybe a wild emp out there larger than the largest swammerdami, who knows.  I really like them though, communal imo, I've seen no aggression towards each other so far.  I don't keep them together for long period though, I can't afford the risk, maybe I will try it if I get some breeding going some day.

Reactions: Like 1


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## ArQuinle (Aug 21, 2018)

Galapoheros said:


> Thanks a lot for the pics!  I give up on trying to sex the ones over here, not completely though, maybe there is a trend with the tooth count but obviously nothing to depend on.  So far going by your pics, the odds are that I prob have a pair or two so at least it made me feel better lol.  Yeah the "size thing" has been sensationalized I think.  I think, "on average", they may be only slightly larger than emps.  I remember reading that the documented difference in the record length between emps and swammers was only something like 1/4 of an inch.  So there maybe a wild emp out there larger than the largest swammerdami, who knows.  I really like them though, communal imo, I've seen no aggression towards each other so far.  I don't keep them together for long period though, I can't afford the risk, maybe I will try it if I get some breeding going some day.


What do you think is the gender of the biggest swammer/scorpion In the record is it a adult female or male ive been trying to find it in net but i cant find


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## KevinsWither (Sep 3, 2018)

Congrats!


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## Galapoheros (Sep 5, 2018)

ArQuinle said:


> What do you think is the gender of the biggest swammer/scorpion In the record is it a adult female or male ive been trying to find it in net but i cant find


I haven't been able to tell.


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