# can Vietnamese cent. be fed live mice?



## orkimedies (Feb 8, 2007)

can mau chau kill and eat a live mouse?


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## Scorp guy (Feb 8, 2007)

Yes. but it's not a very good idea...it could hurt or injure, or kill your pede. I wouldn't reccomend it.


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## reclusa (Feb 8, 2007)

I've also read that over feeding can lead to a shorter life span.


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## mindlessvw (Feb 8, 2007)

i would feed my big guy a pinky every now and then...that doesn't have the ability to injure the animal...anything other than that i wouldn't do it for safety reasons and its most likely too much food....


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## beetleman (Feb 8, 2007)

all of my pedes(giant and small ones) get crickets/roaches, on occasion the giants get 1frozen thawed fuzzie every now and then.


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## Kevin_Davies (Feb 9, 2007)

As others have said, yes they can eat live adult mice, ive seen video's of gigantea's eating adult mice on youtube, I would think a large subspinipes could also eat one, theres a large risk to your pede though, and its also very cruel (just my opinion) for the mouse, they may eat mice in nature, but nature isnt a 2ft glass vivarium, with no escape possible for the mouse, its actually illegal to feed any live vertebrate prey to animals in the UK, im suprised it isnt in the states as well.  They eat already dead pre-frozen mice really well though, so you could always just buy frozen mice for your pede.


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## Selenops (Feb 9, 2007)

And it would take longer for a Scolopendra to consume a whole live mouse than say a whole live pinkie. 

If it even consumes a whole mouse without leaving remains. 

And remember that dead mouse is not loaded with injected digestive fluids and turned into a mushy blob like say a tarantula does. 

Personally, I'd refrain from feeding such large live prey to a centipede. And in the UK it is down right illegal to do so.


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## orkimedies (Feb 10, 2007)

i am shocked to learn that you cannot feed live mice to animals in the U.K. 
that is utterely rediculous.

lawl


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## Kevin_Davies (Feb 10, 2007)

orkimedies said:


> i am shocked to learn that you cannot feed live mice to animals in the U.K.
> that is utterely rediculous.
> 
> lawl


I dont see why its shocking? i'd be shocked if the law was changed here to allow the feeding of live vertebrates, feeding live mammals to predatory animals in a confined space is immoral in my opinion.


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## orkimedies (Feb 10, 2007)

denying a predator a chance to improve it's ability to kill is immoral imho


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## Kevin_Davies (Feb 10, 2007)

orkimedies said:


> denying a predator a chance to improve it's ability to kill is immoral imho


I agree, a predator should be allowed to eat naturally, as well as pre-frozen mice, I feed my centipedes live insects, I dont want to go into why its ok to feed them, and not warm blooded mammals, but its clearly different, I see no reason not to feed centipedes crickets, large locusts, cockroaches etc...


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## orkimedies (Feb 10, 2007)

if a mouse could eat you and everyone you care about, it would.


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## Selenops (Feb 10, 2007)

orkimedies said:


> if a mouse could eat you and everyone you care about, it would.


LOL!

Funny and true.


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## Hedorah99 (Feb 10, 2007)

orkimedies said:


> denying a predator a chance to improve it's ability to kill is immoral imho


So is putting your pet in a situation where it couldbe hurt/killed and you are torturing another living animal for your own amusement. Trust me, the majority of predators on the planet don't want to have to run like maniacs after a meal that they may not catch or may hurt them in the process. If its pre-killed and handed to them, they will enjoy it just as much. They get nothing from the chase or the thrill of the kill. Thats anthropomorphosizing an invertebrate. Seriously dude, that was one of the dumbest things I have heard in a while.


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## orkimedies (Feb 10, 2007)

> Trust me, the majority of predators on the planet don't want to have to run like maniacs





> If its pre-killed and handed to them, they will enjoy it just as much




and i am the one anthropomorphosizing?

QQ more.


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## Hedorah99 (Feb 10, 2007)

orkimedies said:


> and i am the one anthropomorphosizing?
> 
> QQ more.


Nope, its simple. Put a live gazelle in front of a lion and an already recently kille done, and guess which one it will eat. And yes, i put enjoy but you are also the one inferring that they feel a need to hone their bloodlust.  You're really digging here for something to make your statement seem more intelligent.


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## Selenops (Feb 10, 2007)

Hedorah, I don't mean to play the devil's advocate, because your points are oh so valid.

But there are numerous instances where an animal kills for the thrills.

Chimps and Baboons hunting their own kind or other simians.

Lion pride and hyena pack rivalries that become quite anthropomorphic in intensity.

Killer whales killing smaller animals etc just to toss them around and play with them.


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## Hedorah99 (Feb 10, 2007)

Megalon said:


> Hedorah, I don't mean to play the devil's advocate, because your points are oh so valid.
> 
> But there are numerous instances where an animal kills for the thrills.
> 
> ...


I know this. But its more of a rareity than a norm. Most of the species that do that are in groups, so the violence seems to be more societal than individual. A solitary predator rarely does this sort of activity because it wouldn't waste the energy. Since a pede is a solitary predator and has no real higher brain power I doubt its gonna kill out of excitement. I was thinking of your points after I posted. Basically I think the OP is just looking for the thrill of feeding a mouse to something. He regarded the UK law as "utterly ridiculous", when I can imagine it was inacted to prevent people like him from needlessly and maliciously feeding out mice to every little thing that may or may not be able to kill it efficiently or need it as a dietary requirement. 

BUt then again I am a grumpy SOB tonight ;P


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## Selenops (Feb 10, 2007)

I get all your points and they are absolutely valid. 

A giant centipede doesn't need anything larger than a crickets. After all, it doesn't have a large "mouth" per se at all.

I confess I have fed live pinkies to larger inverts (for variety and heartiness). But I think differently now.

And for practical reasons I used to feed an adult T. blondi live pinkies/fuzzies well frankly look at the thing!!! 

But there is no reason to feed a live mouse to a centipede because it can be fattened up on crickets quickly and get it's full nutrional requirements from these insects. I don't think a fully grown jumbo-sized S. gigantea would finish a meal like that. So, yes, I oppose it too.


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## orkimedies (Feb 10, 2007)

move to england pls thx


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## Selenops (Feb 10, 2007)

orkimedies said:


> move to england pls thx


It has nothing to do about being English, it has everything to do with being practical and humane. And a mouse can get it's chops buried in the pede too and capable of dismembering antennae and legs etc.

Now what have you've got... an injured and disfigured pede on your hands.


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## Hedorah99 (Feb 11, 2007)

Megalon said:


> I get all your points and they are absolutely valid.
> 
> A giant centipede doesn't need anything larger than a crickets. After all, it doesn't have a large "mouth" per se at all.
> 
> ...


I used to feed my snakes live rats as well and used to marvel at my horned frogs gulping down mice. I too have since ceased this practice. I see it more as an unnecessary risk rather than a cruelty really. I have seen what a rat can do to a snake. And when, like you said, can feed a pede on soley inverts, I would gladly do this. Besides, dubia roaches are much cheaper than mice.


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## Hedorah99 (Feb 11, 2007)

orkimedies said:


> move to england pls thx


Thanx for adding to the debate  

No, I'll just reiterate that you can feed a mouse to a Mai Chau pede, but it crosses some lines of safety towards your pet and being humane to an animal that is going to die a very slow agonizing death for your own personal amusement and at risk to your pet. Yes, you CAN feed a mouse to a Mai Chau. But if you feel you NEED to, you should probably reconsider why you own pets in the first place.


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## C_Strike (Feb 11, 2007)

tbh, it just shows a lack of understanding, intelligence and morality, lol..keep it up orkimedies.. ¬.¬
just mho.
IMO animals that require the life of another vertebrate should really be reconsidered as a house pet..unless for very certain reasons such as species extinction in the wild,. Im sure many would disagree though.
 I have niggles with feeding my royal python F/T mice, i see them both as seperate but equal entities, and dont see a reason for sacrificing god knows how many mice for one single life. Dont get me wrong, my snake is wicked,m love it to bits, but really...what makes it 'better' than a mouse?
i think hedorah has got it spot on with his points and statements.
We are perceived as hunters, would you prefer to go out and hunt down a cow, process it and then make and cook your burger? or just buy one? lol
I also have issues with this, one day i hope to only eat meat i raised and killed, i give a lot of respect to the animals in my care, even the DEAD mice, i feel its your duty, at the end of the day its wot has made your snakes!
I dont see any need from feeding a 'pede live verts, 
TBH i dont think i can say anything hedorah hasnt already said.
the comment about England doesnt quite show yourself as being particularly intelligent, mature or any use to this debate... no offence, lol


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## Natco (Feb 11, 2007)

orkimedies said:


> if a mouse could eat you and everyone you care about, it would.


So would a pede, or most of the other things we talk about on here.  But they cant.  Leopards can, maybe you should go out and get one and feed it to your animals.


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## mindlessvw (Feb 12, 2007)

i think it is safe to say that most likely people on here will always disagree on this topic. It seems to be a matter of opinion as to whether or not its ok...except for in the UK where its illegal. This seems like one of those topics we need to agree to dis-agree


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## bliss (Feb 12, 2007)

well, i won't lie, i fed my mau chau a live mouse.  it was crazy.  i did it only once, just to see what would happen.  i knew the risks involved.  but i did it outta curiosity.  the mau chau i have is close to 9", it wrapped its whole body around the mouse and then proceeded to chow down on the stomach.  im not worried about my pede (even though i should be), i just don't wanna have to clean up another mess like that from its cage (disgusting).  
~some might think of me as cold-hearted, but i actually took the teeth out of the mouse b4 i fed it to my pede.  sorry to all of those who think that this sorta stuff is malicious.


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## Galapoheros (Feb 12, 2007)

You took the teeth out?!  Dude!  I'm at a loss of words.  Hmm, well, if the pede didn't end up eating it, you would have to have gotten it some rodentures, HA! ...get it?! :8o


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## Selenops (Feb 12, 2007)

YIKES! 

Home rodent tooth extractions. Ever see *Marathon Man* or *OldBoy*. 

I don't think that was necessary. I'll reiterate something I think I said like five times or more (heh) already but more graphically. One reason I refuse to feed live mice to a giant centipede is you might end with a carcass i.e. body with it's bowels opened wide open and partially eaten or find yourself the new owner of a disembodied rodent head to mount on your wall and brag about to your friends this is my centipede's first live mouse.

Also centipedes have been known burrow beneath or make itself right at home within carrion itself.


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## C_Strike (Feb 12, 2007)

TBH, if it was known over here in UK it woulda resulted in RSPCA maybe even confiscating all your stuff.
IMO as well, it is totally unneccessary pain and suffering for the mouse, i cant actually comprehend doing it in honesty, i view it as an abuse of powers, same with knocing their heads agains a surface to feed snakes, i can understand why but at the end of the day there is no reason on earth that it HAS to be live mice rather than thawed. Dont get me wrong though for the 'right'  reasons, i would happily kill a man over a dog. i feel no compasion for man, as a species, sad as it is.. 
i could never be so inhumane to even a mouse,*Unless it was an axe weilding homocidal maniac mouse!* i think i would have to stand on it, but thats diff*lol
Each to their own and all but that really is cruel, lol
What do you do if he doesnt eat it?
I dont spose you would mind killing it tho,no offence intended..just curious


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## Brian S (Feb 12, 2007)

C_Strike said:


> i could never be so inhumane to even a mouse,*Unless it was an axe weilding homocidal maniac mouse!* i think i would have to stand on it, but thats diff*lol
> Each to their own and all but that really is cruel, lol
> What do you do if he doesnt eat it?
> I dont spose you would mind killing it tho,no offence intended..just curious


Remember those words the next hamburger you eat


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## bliss (Feb 13, 2007)

well, if the pedes not hungry, then ill just throw the mouse in with my redtail... teeth are already out, no need to worry about it biting the snake.  usually when i get mice, i put 'em in the freezer to let them freeze (most humane way to kill a mouse IMO).  but i just wanted to experiment that one time...


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## cheetah13mo (Feb 13, 2007)

I just want to point out that most preditors on earth, whether they're in groups or solitary by nature, plays with their food. As they are taught to hunt from their parents, the food is injured enough for training purposes and after they get tired of playing, the prey is killed and eaten. So even though I would not feed my pets anything dangerous to them, Add this to what Megalon said, the playing and killing food for fun happens more than one would think. The solitary leoperd will kill food and stash it for another day up in a tree. All kinds of insects behaive this way. You'll find it happens more and more the farther north the preditor lives. The cooler temps push the animal to hord food for a later day. Just for examples.


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## Selenops (Feb 13, 2007)

blissful88 said:


> well, if the pedes not hungry, then ill just throw the mouse in with my redtail... teeth are already out, no need to worry about it biting the snake.  usually when i get mice, i put 'em in the freezer to let them freeze (most humane way to kill a mouse IMO).  but i just wanted to experiment that one time...


And you're not the sole person that has perpetuated something like this with captive animals or livestock.

In another thread I recounted, I had an older peer that used to throw S. polymorpha he caught around on his property in with his Rose Hair as a means of feeding the tarantula and TBH for sport too.

Both animals could have been injured or killed. Fortunately the Rose Hair appeared to be highly adapted at preying on medium sized centipedes as it always batted around and/or pinned the pede down with it's legs with uncanny accuracy and always lunged in sunk it's fangs in first. Might have been some scientific finding in that pitmatch but it's cruel and risking injury and/or placing unneccessary stress upon one's pet.

Today, I'd give him a good talk to and correct him of his actions. But we were both immature teens back then and he probably has already outgrown this form of cruelty and stupidity.


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## Midnightrdr456 (Feb 13, 2007)

freezing a mouse is FAR from humane.  They can feel pain, and they are warm blooded so it takes a while for their bodies to die from the cold, compared to a cold blooded animal or an invert.  The most humane way to kill a mouse or rat is a CO chamber (or is it CO2 i always mix them up).  If your unable to do that, then the next most humane way (though its much worse) is snapping the neck quickly.

I used to feed live mice to my snakes, but have since switched to f/t.  And a rat can kill a large snake, ive seen rats killing boas and ball pythons.  Mice can kill smaller snakes like corns and kings.  And if a mouse can kill a corn snake, it can most definately kill a centipede.

Then if you dont care if your centipede dies, I would question why you would be keeping one anyway.  I dont feel feeding mice or even pinkies is necessary to inverts, but if you must see it, just for the awe of seeing it (which I can understand) I would use f/t pinkies.


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## mindlessvw (Feb 13, 2007)

i say only feed live(especially if you are feeding a mouse large enough to do some damage) if absalutely necessary...there are some occasions that you cannot get a snake to eat f/t. I do have an animal that, despite my all my best attempts and tons of advice from other people, will not touch anything that is not white and alive...if there is a speck of color on that thing he won't go near it...but i think that kind of time is the only time it is ok to feed that...otherwise you can use frozen


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## Scott C. (Feb 13, 2007)

Being human, is inhumane...... 
The only argument that ever holds any water on this side of the pond in this debate is the clean up, and risk to your pet, arguments...... I feed live pinkies, and fuzzies, to my large T's on very rare occasions. No risk. No remains except for a small white ball of what seems to be partially digested bone matter, and no entertaining show because I don't have time for that crap, and watching little animals get devoured doesn't get me off.
If I was in the UK, I would obey the law. Good reasoning.
If my T couldn't eat the entire meal, I'd not feed it that particular meal. Good reasoning.
If I only had open-eyed, sharp-toothed, clever mammals available I'd not expose my T's to them. Good reasoning.
If I was an ultra humane freak, I would quit being a hypocrite, go buy some vegetables, get rid of the caged animals that fill my room, and consider stopping an endless supply of human activities that end result in something somewhere getting the short end of the stick.......
I have yet to meet a person who claims moral superiority as their reason to feed pre-killed, that can't be proven a raging hypocrite....

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Midnightrdr456 (Feb 13, 2007)

im not arguing the humane aspect of feeding live.  I dont get in on that side of the argument b/c its pointless to fight about it.  But killing mice by freezing them is FAR from a humane way of killing them before feeding, and feeding an animal that could potentially kill or hurt your pet is just irresponsible.


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## Scott C. (Feb 13, 2007)

Midnightrdr456 said:


> ........ feeding an animal that could potentially kill or hurt your pet is just irresponsible.


I agree entirely.


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## Selenops (Feb 13, 2007)

Here are some interesting pages though they deal with human consumption of insect (bleugh!), it is quite enlightening on the nutritional values of insects. 

click here! 

from the
Insects as Food, by Gene DeFoliart Home Page. 

And there are additional links to read on the Gene DeFoliart site.

Like Scott said, why risk injury or death to your tarantulas and inverts, heck, I treat mine like they're the family dogs. My affection has that strong of a bond though they can not reciprocate likewise, yet because they are under my care and thus my responsibility they've already reciprocated.

My largest tarantulas may have a rare pinkie or fuzzie or even anole due to their size alone.


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## Midnightrdr456 (Feb 13, 2007)

Scott C. said:


> I agree entirely.


yea, thats the only thing i really use as an argument against it.


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## Tleilaxu (Feb 16, 2007)

Live food is approcpriate in some instances but in the UKM its illegal even to feed feeder fish to other fish... while feeding live food has benefits it also has risks and the owner needs to evaluate them. I have no clue what I would have done with my gar if I was in the Uk as they rarely if ever take prepared/dead frozen foods. This is one of those agree to disagree. As in verts I think they should be able to be fed to predators as well. To me there is NO differnce between a feeder cricket and feeder mouse.


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## Spider-Man v2.0 (Feb 16, 2007)

Kevin_Davies said:


> I dont see why its shocking? i'd be shocked if the law was changed here to allow the feeding of live vertebrates, feeding live mammals to predatory animals in a confined space is immoral in my opinion.


todays feeding day for my snakes, and gess what im feeding them alive? and enjoying seeing it  lol

i whouldnt feed a live mouse to my centies cus im sure thay can do some damage to it. 
i have feed live hamster pinkies to my centiped and scorpions tho.


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## Urizen (Feb 17, 2007)

Brian S said:


> Remember those words the next hamburger you eat


I agree, this for me is the pinnacle of all vegetarian VS meat-eater arguments. It's not the fact that you are killing an animal for substanance, it's how you kill the animal. I think this thread, judging by later comments,was started with the intent for amusement, not nutritional value for a pet. The infamous youTUBE video showing a centipede eating a mouse, imo is simply for shock-value.


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## mindlessvw (Feb 18, 2007)

ok dudes,...this thread will go no where and we know it...its a debate that will rage forever...this is a "to each his own" argument...we all feel very strongly about these issues...lets leave it alone for real!


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## orkimedies (Feb 20, 2007)

i have not yet fed anything larger then a super worm to any of my inverts.
and my forest scorpions refuse any dead food outright no matter how you offer it to them, even live food they rarely take (with the exception of leviathan my portly spinifer who eats like a dog)

the way i have found they prefir to eat is if you drop a super worm in thier tank they wait till it digs down into the substrate then they dig after it and pull it to the surface for a snack, my friends love watching this as do i.

how ever my emperors do take pre-killed meals but they are much less agressive.

but when i do feed a live mouse to one of my T's(or pede if i should ever get one)

i would not risk injury to the animal, i would hog tie and gag the mouse (or break it's teeth)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoXfYvoUsxg mauchau eating a mouse


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## tacoma0680 (Feb 22, 2007)

If you want to fed you centipede somthing that is live go ahead and fed it like a pinkie that can not really hurt them or if you have a big one go with a hopper.


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## dazbuzz (Feb 22, 2007)

well i have found out that in the u.k you cannot feed live animals other than crickets to any pet:evil:


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## konrad16660 (Mar 5, 2007)

Just yesterdaqy we fed a fuzzy to a vietnameses cent.  yea.  a LIVE mouse right here in the US of A and it killed that mouse without a problem and then ate the lower jaw and hallowd out the brain cavity leaving a shiny skull and then ate all the guts and lefts a couple legs and a tail to rot.  they can easily kill a mouse.  Just make sure he is hugry.


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## Hedorah99 (Mar 5, 2007)

konrad16660 said:


> Just yesterdaqy we fed a fuzzy to a vietnameses cent.  yea.  a LIVE mouse right here in the US of A and it killed that mouse without a problem and then ate the lower jaw and hallowd out the brain cavity leaving a shiny skull and then ate all the guts and lefts a couple legs and a tail to rot.  they can easily kill a mouse.  Just make sure he is hugry.


You are a bastion of maturity aren't you? The debate is more or less should they be fed live mice, not can they. But, oh Wotan, why do I try anymore...:wall:


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## ragnew (Mar 5, 2007)

konrad16660 said:


> Just yesterdaqy we fed a fuzzy to a vietnameses cent.  yea.  a LIVE mouse right here in the US of A and it killed that mouse without a problem and then ate the lower jaw and hallowd out the brain cavity leaving a shiny skull and then ate all the guts and lefts a couple legs and a tail to rot.  they can easily kill a mouse.  Just make sure he is hugry.


... Not very sure what to say, but I think Hedorah pretty much hit the nail in the head.


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## Stylopidae (Mar 6, 2007)

Hedorah99 said:


> You are a bastion of maturity aren't you? The debate is more or less should they be fed live mice, not can they. But, oh Wotan, why do I try anymore...:wall:


I'd also say he's a shining example of the effectiveness of our public school system


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## Mikey_Deadcat (Mar 7, 2007)

*Hello*

So theres a law enacted In Europe that refrains one from feeding mice to there animals. Well what if one has an animal that only eats mice and other small vertebrates. Also i doubt that mousetraps are banned in Europe i consider that a much more grotesque way to die then to be injected with enough venom to completely subdue them. Im sure that when that neurotoxin is pumped into the small mammal that they dont feel much of anything after that or are even breathing for that matter. And whos to say what animal we can be cruel to and not be cruel to. Is a mouse any more important in the world than a cockroach or cricket. Ive seen natural videos of a pede killing and eating a T thats a food they come across in natural feeding but if anyone on here confessed to doing that im sure you all would crucify him.


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## Mikey_Deadcat (Mar 7, 2007)

*So*

If you guys are all for complete natural feeding why not feed one of your more well loved t's to a Giant pede


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## konrad16660 (Mar 8, 2007)

Cheshire said:


> I'd also say he's a shining example of the effectiveness of our public school system


haha i know what your thinking....I'm 23 anyways I research any bugs I get and I do care about their safety.  The fact is, you can feed them fuzzies and its ok for them as long as you don't make it a weekly event.  its more of a monthy event.  its like a person, you can get a juicy burger once in a while, but you'll have a heart attack if you make it a habbit.
I love my critters and I don't want anyone to think different


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## Hedorah99 (Mar 8, 2007)

konrad16660 said:


> haha i know what your thinking....I'm 23 anyways I research any bugs I get and I do care about their safety.  The fact is, you can feed them fuzzies and its ok for them as long as you don't make it a weekly event.  its more of a monthy event.  its like a person, you can get a juicy burger once in a while, but you'll have a heart attack if you make it a habbit.
> I love my critters and I don't want anyone to think different


Like I said, its not a question of nutrition but a question of safety and ethics. You are still not getting this point.


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## mindlessvw (Mar 8, 2007)

i think the original point of the thread has been totally lost at this point. He asked if it could kill and eat a mouse...not the ethics behind it...yes it can kill and eat a mouse...is it a good idea? some say yes others say no...can it harm the pede? possibly if the mouse is too big or if you overfeed the pede. Is it morally ok? Well that is an opinion that differs between keepers.that is the answer to the original question posted four pages ago! the answer is there is no definite answer...you weigh the good with the bad and your own personal beliefs and decide from there.


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## Hedorah99 (Mar 8, 2007)

mindlessvw said:


> i think the original point of the thread has been totally lost at this point. He asked if it could kill and eat a mouse...not the ethics behind it...yes it can kill and eat a mouse...is it a good idea? some say yes others say no...can it harm the pede? possibly if the mouse is too big or if you overfeed the pede. Is it morally ok? Well that is an opinion that differs between keepers.that is the answer to the original question posted four pages ago! the answer is there is no definite answer...you weigh the good with the bad and your own personal beliefs and decide from there.


I know. Its a good point. I just get worked up over the immature attitude some people have towards the hobby. I should just keep telling myself, its just a hobby, but animals are not only my hobby but my profession, so the ability to just keep quiet gets over ruled a lot.


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## Stylopidae (Mar 8, 2007)

Hedorah99 said:


> I know. Its a good point. I just get worked up over the immature attitude some people have towards the hobby.


And for good reason. A lot of people simply hate the hobby. You start showing them pictures, videos and text posts who think that live mammals are the proper way to feed centipedes, then people get the wrong idea.


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## orkimedies (Mar 8, 2007)

if animals didnt want to be eaten they wouldnt be made of meat


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## Hedorah99 (Mar 8, 2007)

orkimedies said:


> if animals didnt want to be eaten they wouldnt be made of meat


Seriously dude, are you 12?


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## cacoseraph (Mar 8, 2007)

orkimedies said:


> can mau chau kill and eat a live mouse?


good grief... obviously no one in here took much debate in school, eh?


the topic to be "debated" is CAN THEY EAT A LIVE MOUSE. 

anyone who is responding to anything except that is thread jacking... if you want to debate ethics there are tons of threads for that... this thread is about CAN a centipede kill and eat a live mouse. sheesh.

also, dictating ethics to someone is the height of arrogance... but, i rather doubt that will bother most of the posters in this thread

Reactions: Like 1


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## cacoseraph (Mar 8, 2007)

orkimedies said:


> if animals didnt want to be eaten they wouldnt be made of meat





Hedorah99 said:


> Seriously dude, are you 12?


actually, whether he knows it or not orki has a point... meat is much easier to digest than vegetable matter... so yes... if animals didn't want to be eaten they wouldn't be made out of meat, in a very real sense


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## konrad16660 (Mar 9, 2007)

I have not found it to be detrimental to their health at all.  exessive feeding of mice though is not recommended.  I feel they gain a lot of nutrition from the occassional mouse.




Hedorah99 said:


> Like I said, its not a question of nutrition but a question of safety and ethics. You are still not getting this point.


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## ragnew (Mar 10, 2007)

I can see Konrad's point now (I think). I presonally don't think that theres anything wrong with feeding a large enough pede an occasional Fuzzy Mouse or Pinkie. Though I think it's a pretty bad idea to feed even the largest of Pedes a full grown adult mouse. Full growns have some pretty serious teeth, and if they have the chance could do some serious damage to the Pede attacking it. Think of some of the wounds they can cause to snakes and varanids.

So in my eyes, yes, I think it's okay to feed a full grown adult Subspinipes a fuzzy mouse, but I won't recommend an adult.


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## Nich (Mar 10, 2007)

*Yes*

I fed my hatians a variety of vertebrates.  A mixture of food is healthy, but you have to oversee the feeding, even an uneaten pinky could mutilate a pede.


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## 8+) (Mar 16, 2007)

Nich said:


> ...even an uneaten pinky could mutilate a pede.


?!? :? ?!?


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## nickbachman (Mar 17, 2007)

Nich said:


> even an uneaten pinky could mutilate a pede.


100% wrong.


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## cacoseraph (Mar 18, 2007)

we should probably make sure we are all using the same operational definitions here.

to me, mice means any of a certain rodent species characterized by small (>= 3" body length,not counting tail) adult size. mice does not necessarily indicate a particular life stage to me.

to me, pinky means the VERY early life stage of said mouse, characterized by a distinct lack of visible hair. at this stage mice are very nearly, if not completely, defenseless. pinkies can not lift their own body off the ground and walk as a "traditional" adult mouse. i am not even sure if they have opened eyes or not. i have seen pinkies at or just under 1/2" BL.

i believe fuzzy means the next stage when the mouse is mobile and furry. i have never used these or any larger of the life stages to feed any of my bugs, live or dead or f/t. i would consider prekilled or f/t if i thought i bug could benefit from the meal.

hopper i believe traditionally refers to full or near-full grown mice that are very quick and have teeth that bite and claws that scratch.

i believe the largest danger posed by pinkies would be to be incompletely or not consumed and make a rot funk. this could easily lead directly or indirectly to the death of a pet bug.

fuzzies and most especially hoppers (or full adult if that is another category) can get a fatal bite in a very small percentage of cases and can get a wounding bite in a larger but still small percentage of the time (when the predator bug outmasses them by at least 5x. if you put equal mass bug vs. rodent you are just asking to lose your bug).

i have fed pinkies to largish S. supspinipes and it took *15 minutes* for the wretched thing to stop squeaking... and adult would be tougher and possibly go into a death frenzy. granted, i have seen and heard/read of subspinipes dropping larger than pinky sized mice or rats much quicker and with no damage to themselves... but given enough tests the bug is destined to fail one


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## Scott C. (Mar 20, 2007)

I use pinkies, and fuzzies, but the fuzzies I am referring to are as incapable of damaging anything as a pinkie. Eyes are still closed. Jaws still quite weak. Only difference is that they are a bit more mobile, and the fur is just starting to grow in..... I think terminology regarding the scale of development varies store to store.


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## nickbachman (Mar 20, 2007)

when the fuzzies open their eyes, they're classified as hoppers, at my local shop anyway.


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## Dr. Octopus (Mar 23, 2007)

Kevin_Davies said:


> I dont see why its shocking? i'd be shocked if the law was changed here to allow the feeding of live vertebrates, feeding live mammals to predatory animals in a confined space is immoral in my opinion.



Good grief! How is it 'immoral'? Are you applying human standards to your centipedes?That's the same line of silly thinking as some vegans I know who will not feed thier dogs or cats animal products....
I have a large pet frog, and feed him live mice and incects all the time- He's perfectly happy and healthy....
I'd NEVER give my frog  a stale frozen dead mouse or dead insects...

Same goes for feeding centipedes , spiders,  scorpions and snakes- I would only give them live prey-
If a person doesnt have the stomach to feed these creatures live prey, I have to wonder if they should even have them as pets in the first place...


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## Dr. Octopus (Mar 25, 2007)

orkimedies said:


> if animals didnt want to be eaten they wouldnt be made of meat





How does someone respond to such a foolish statement?


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## Bayushi (Mar 25, 2007)

Okay  i just read this entire thread and for the most part it's exactly like every other thread ever started about feeding  mice to your inverts.

To answer the original question: We've all, or at least most of us have, seen the videos of cents eating a mouse. So the obvious answer is yes, they can.


 as for the legality of using live mice as feeders in the UK.   if you don't live there or understand the laws, don't argue about them being stupid.

Finally cus it was stated that if animals didn't want to be eaten they shouldn't be made out if meat.   keep in mind people are animals made out of meat, but it doesn't mean i'm gonna go kill my neighbours kid and have a barbeque or feed one of them to my pets.    it's just a stupid thing  say in an attempt to try and make your argument the winning side.


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## Bigboy (Mar 27, 2007)

blissful88 said:


> well, if the pedes not hungry, then ill just throw the mouse in with my redtail... teeth are already out, no need to worry about it biting the snake.  usually when i get mice, i put 'em in the freezer to let them freeze (most humane way to kill a mouse IMO).  but i just wanted to experiment that one time...


Humane!!!!! Freezing a higher organism that is endothermic is nowhere near being humane, that is downright wrong and there is no argument otherwise.  You do realize what would happen to you if you were to freeze to death?  Same thing for a mouse, buy prekilled frozen rather than that!
Pedes can eat mice, they can overpower and take lots of small vertebrates for that matter depending on species.  Should yours, that is for you to decide, not any bleeding heart opinionated anonymous poster here.


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## Nich (Mar 27, 2007)

nickbachman said:


> 100% wrong.


Thats interesting as I lost a mylasion jewel to one. I think you should rack up some exp. before making ignorant statements.


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## Nich (Mar 27, 2007)

8+) said:


> ?!? :? ?!?


I'm not seeing how thats confusing...lol. Not necesarrily an newborn pinky, but any mouse that can move under its own power can certainly hurt or kill a pede....calcerous teeth vs. venom.....venom does not always win.


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## Bigboy (Mar 27, 2007)

Nich said:


> I'm not seeing how thats confusing...lol. Not necesarrily an newborn pinky, but any mouse that can move under its own power can certainly hurt or kill a pede....calcerous teeth vs. venom.....venom does not always win.


It was confusing because your original post said that even a newborn pinky could mutilate a pede.


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## 8+) (Mar 28, 2007)

Bigboy said:


> ...buy prekilled frozen rather than that!


I know this is not exactly on topic, but how are frozen mice killed?


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## Bulldog08 (Mar 28, 2007)

They are stuck in a freezer live until they freeze to death.


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## Crunchie (Mar 28, 2007)

8+) said:


> I know this is not exactly on topic, but how are frozen mice killed?


The ones I get in the pet shop near me are gassed with CO2 as are the ones offered for sale by my internet based livefood supplier.


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## mindlessvw (Mar 28, 2007)

i think it depends on who you go through...but mostly its co2...i believe


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## Hedorah99 (Mar 28, 2007)

Bulldog08 said:


> They are stuck in a freezer live until they freeze to death.


That's so wrong its not funny. They are humanly euthanized with carbon dioxide and then frozen.


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## Scott C. (Mar 28, 2007)

..... humanly euthanized..... 

these topics always bring out the best of the headache inducing conundrums......


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## Hedorah99 (Mar 28, 2007)

Scott C. said:


> ..... humanly euthanized.....
> 
> these topics always bring out the best of the headache inducing conundrums......


Well, Carbon dioxide being the nicer alternative to being bludgeoned to death with a spoon.


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## Scott C. (Mar 28, 2007)

It is most definitely less painful for the mouse, but when you get right down to it, there really is nothing nice about it at all.


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## Hedorah99 (Mar 28, 2007)

Scott C. said:


> It is most definitely less painful for the mouse, but when you get right down to it, there really is nothing nice about it at all.


No, there really isn't, but one way can be construed as much better than another. Thats where the humane part comes in. Its either inhaling a odorless, colorless gas and instantly passing out, and never waking up again. Or, the alternative, being slowly massicated to death in the jaws of a predator. Guess which one, I'd opt for.

On a side, note, I really cannot remember just exactly how this thread got started. I'll have to review.


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## Scott C. (Mar 28, 2007)

I suppose we should wonder what the mouse would opt for.....

Thread started with a question about capability, and then degenerated, as this topic always does, until it finally reached here...... Don't think capability was truly in question though.... For moral support, most likely.


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## Bulldog08 (Mar 28, 2007)

Hedorah99 said:


> That's so wrong its not funny. They are humanly euthanized with carbon dioxide and then frozen.


The bigger ones maybe, but the quickest way to kill the pinkies is to stick em in the freezer.  I work at a lab and this is done, we handle more than 10k mice a year.  I'm sure the people that sell mice as feeders do the same.  Quick and easy.


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## Hedorah99 (Mar 28, 2007)

Bulldog08 said:


> The bigger ones maybe, but the quickest way to kill the pinkies is to stick em in the freezer.  I work at a lab and this is done, we handle more than 10k mice a year.  I'm sure the people that sell mice as feeders do the same.  Quick and easy.


I fail to see how slowly freezing something to death is quicker than instantaneously gassing it. I worked in a lab too .


But this is outside the subject and frankly I am tired of arguing.


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## Bigboy (Mar 28, 2007)

Bulldog08 said:


> The bigger ones maybe, but the quickest way to kill the pinkies is to stick em in the freezer.  I work at a lab and this is done, we handle more than 10k mice a year.  I'm sure the people that sell mice as feeders do the same.  Quick and easy.


If that is so then your lab should be shut down and I wouldn't advertise that on a website like this.


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## nickbachman (Apr 1, 2007)

Nich said:


> Thats interesting as I lost a mylasion jewel to one. I think you should rack up some exp. before making ignorant statements.


i dont need decades of experience to know that a newborn mouse with no fur, no teeth, and unopened eyes that can't even walk can't "mutilate" a centipede.  if you are talking about older mice, say a fuzzy, don't say use the term "pinkie."   get your terms straight before you go making ridiculous, stupid statements.


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## orkimedies (Apr 3, 2007)

the best way to kill a mouse is to drop it in a community of asian forest scorpions, it gets pulled into its component parts rather quickly.


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## Stylopidae (Apr 3, 2007)

Scott C. said:


> I suppose we should wonder what the mouse would opt for.....
> 
> Thread started with a question about capability, and then degenerated, as this topic always does, until it finally reached here...... Don't think capability was truly in question though.... For moral support, most likely.


Yup...it's been at the immature bickering stage where no new info is brought up.

This is kind of like the 'Everyone Hates Me' thread's ugly, annoying little sister.


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## Hedorah99 (Apr 3, 2007)

Cheshire said:


> Yup...it's been at the immature bickering stage where no new info is brought up.
> 
> This is kind of like the 'Everyone Hates Me' thread's ugly, annoying little sister.


Yea, I gotta agree. Kinda sad I helped contribute at one point. Apologies to everyone who actually comes here to learn.


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## kahoy (Apr 4, 2007)

place a large cheese on the middle of your pedes tank... 
set lose the cute mouse on the house. 
and make pathways for the mouse leading to the tank. 
if it destroyed your favorite stinky sock 
i think you would prefer tossing the "rat" to the tank afterwards.
and would enjoy your wrath to the rat
...
but if it didnt destroyed your sock...
then set lose your pede...
and maybe one day...
youll find them both inside your shoe...


^^


LOL!!!


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## nickbachman (Apr 4, 2007)

kahoy said:


> place a large cheese on the middle of your pedes tank...
> set lose the cute mouse on the house.
> and make pathways for the mouse leading to the tank.
> if it destroyed your favorite stinky sock
> ...


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## orkimedies (Apr 4, 2007)

why wont this thread die?


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## nickbachman (Apr 4, 2007)

Ppppbbbfff  "Chain saws rule 420"


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## beetleman (Apr 4, 2007)

orkimedies said:


> why wont this thread die?


seems like this thread will go on forever..........and never stop


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## SaintScythus (Apr 4, 2007)

This thread probably needs to be closed anytime now.


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## Brian S (Apr 6, 2007)

Do NOT, I repete do NOT do this. It isnt worth it believe me


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