# Timeline of Dermestid beetles at work



## Bigboy

So last night I skinned out a snake my buddy gave me.  He found it dead in February, we figure it came out too early during a warm spell we had.  You might notice some of the tail is missing, I had a bit of an accident skinning it.  I borrowed my buddie's camera and took some shots.  Anyhow, enjoy...

Introduced skinned garter snake to tank






Hour 1 with beetles






hour 1 without beetles






Hour 2






Hour 3






Hour 5






Hour 6






Hour 17






Hour 23 all done


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## Deroplatys

Wow, very good sequence there!
Think i know what to do the next time the cats bring in a mouse lol


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## Endagr8

I think you might have just inspired me to start a collection of dermestids. Awesome skeleton! :clap: :clap: :clap:


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## arachnocat

That's awesome! I had no idea they worked so quickly. Where is a good place to buy a colony?


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## Bigboy

Taxidermists sometimes have em for sale.  You can search the web and usually find someone with a thousand or so for sale.  By wednesday I should have a few more things to photograph in there.  I'll be skinning out a few more animals Monday.


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## a1_collection

Excellent show of how much these beetles can eat.


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## NoS

That is simply incredible.

Now are you sure that you will have enough for them to eat in the future?


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## Moultmaster

Great photos.  Coleoptera is not only one of the largest orders of insects, but one of the most fascinating.  Remind me not to post any free kitty to a good home ads anytime soon. lol.


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## jmiller

arachnocat said:


> That's awesome! I had no idea they worked so quickly. Where is a good place to buy a colony?




There are always a bunch for sale on eBay.  A few of the larger sellers have them listed daily.  

I purchase two thousand a month or so back and had good results.  But man do those things stink.


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## Endagr8

Bigboy said:


> Taxidermists sometimes have em for sale.  You can search the web and usually find someone with a thousand or so for sale.  By wednesday I should have a few more things to photograph in there.  I'll be skinning out a few more animals Monday.


Don't forget to post the pics!   Will they already be hungry by Wednesday?


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## Widowman10

wow! thanks for documenting that sequence, i had no idea how fast they could work!!  

now i see why taxidermists love these things!


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## Bigboy

Endagr8 said:


> Don't forget to post the pics!   Will they already be hungry by Wednesday?


They're always hungry.  I keep smell down to a minimum in my colony.  I've smelled really stinky bug boxes, but mine only has a slight odor to it.  If you keep them relatively dry and make sure to remove brains, etc. and dry out the food you give them you can avoid the whole rotting meat smell completely.  Just never give them too much at a time.


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## arachnocat

What sort of substrate do they need? Are you keeping them on styrofoam and paper towels like in the pic?


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## bhoeschcod

You dont necessarially need substrate after a period of time the beetles eat the dead bugs and stuff and that kinda makes the substrate hope this helps.


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## Craig

Awesome photos and colony!!!


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## Bigboy

I keep mine on styrofoam and paper towels yes, and sometimes for an important specimen I'll put a cardboard box top in to catch any bones that might disarticulate from a specimen.  The beetles don't care what it is, they chew clean through eventually.  Not even aluminum foil is safe from them.  Just got back from the lab with partial bodies and near complete skeletons of mice, meadow voles, a woodchuck, flying squirrel, gray squirrel and fisher.  Will post pics as I get around to them this week.


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## Pacmaster

1st of all, those are awesome pics of some amazing bugs . . .

questions-
Do they breed/multiply?

You take the skin/fur off because a) they dont eat it, or b)???

They do not damage the bones at all?

How many beetles in your colony?
How long was that snake?

Are they soooo common that I could call the local taxidermists around here and they might sell me some?(I know you cant really answer that, but is it plausible?)


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## Widowman10

they should breed and multiply.

they do not damage the bones AFAIK

and they should be fairly common. heck, people find them in cricket batches all the time. i'll even find them in my house from time to time.


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## bhoeschcod

I can answer the first question yes they breed some say like wild fire


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## bhoeschcod

Yep i find em in my house i had a infestation in my bed once ew was it gross


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## Widowman10

bhoeschcod said:


> i had a infestation in my bed once ew was it gross


in your bed? um, what were they eating?


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## Pacmaster

Widowman10 said:


> they should breed and multiply.
> 
> they do not damage the bones AFAIK
> 
> and they should be fairly common. heck, people find them in cricket batches all the time. i'll even find them in my house from time to time.


Can someone post a closeup of one, I HAVE found some weird things in with the crix over the years.
Are they knda grub-like and bristly hairs?

Like in the 1st pic of the thread, in the very center of the shot/S . . .
Ive seen those for sure before, is that it? or a larvae?


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## Pacmaster

Widowman10 said:


> in your bed? um, what were they eating?


Do we even want to know???


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## Widowman10

Pacmaster said:


> Can someone post a closeup of one, I HAVE found some weird things in with the crix over the years.
> Are they knda grub-like and bristly hairs?
> 
> Like in the 1st pic of the thread, in the very center of the shot/S . . .
> Ive seen those for sure before, is that it? or a larvae?


yes, they look like larvae with bristly hairs. bout 1/4" long(ish)



Pacmaster said:


> Do we even want to know???


i don't think i do....


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## Pacmaster

Thanks widowman, you know your stuff!


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## Widowman10

Pacmaster said:


> Thanks widowman, you know your stuff!


i know a _little bit_. the knowledge i don't have outweighs what i do by about a million.


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## bhoeschcod

Widowman10 said:


> in your bed? um, what were they eating?


Nothing bad gold fish crackers yummy now i hate them cuz they wre in the bag and ew i cant go on its soo nasty:8o


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## Pacmaster

Lemme guess, you ate outta the bag/ ate a beetle/ EWWWW

:clap:


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## bhoeschcod

No not quite but it does invole actually eating on of the little tiny larvae too small to see [and it was night]and i went to eat it and it was crunchie and a bit hairy ew


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## Bigboy

Pacmaster said:


> 1st of all, those are awesome pics of some amazing bugs . . .
> 
> questions-
> Do they breed/multiply?
> 
> You take the skin/fur off because a) they dont eat it, or b)???
> 
> They do not damage the bones at all?
> 
> How many beetles in your colony?
> How long was that snake?
> 
> Are they soooo common that I could call the local taxidermists around here and they might sell me some?(I know you cant really answer that, but is it plausible?)


To answer briefly, if you feed them regularly, they will breed quite well.

I skin them because the fur is a mess in the tank and most of the skinned animals are made into study skins

They will damage soft bones on young animals and sometimes the turbinals on a skull if left without food for long.

I think my colony this near 3000beetles at the moment

The snake was a bit over a foot long??

More pics to come soon, the beetles are nearly finished with some rodents.  They've been slow because I have a big piece of meat in there for them to gnaw away at as their staple diet.


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## Pacmaster

Thanks!
I might try to pick some up locally if I can.
Those things would be handy to have around . . .
How long would you say it would take them to eat a full grown human body?


IM JUST KIDDING, much better ways to get rid of bodies . . . ;P 


No, but over the years some beloved herps have passed, and it woulda been kinda cool to know about these beetles sooner, so I could mount the skeletons or at least keep the skulls.
Ive had a couple of my frogs die, and a friend even gave me his dead one to preserve, but I am old skool- bury them in the ground for a while- but I guess theres just too many racoons and cats around, they always got dug up and stolen.

And to think that if I had saved up all the ones I ever found in bags of crix, Id have about a gazillion!

Thanks for the thread BigBoy!


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## bhoeschcod

I have about eleven of them kinda small but i did feed them a fly[dead] and they seem to be eating it.


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## Bigboy

These are some of the rodents that I'm prepping.  They have all been skinned by students and some were in better shape than others, but bones are bones.  All were collected with a scientific collector's permit.

Here they are drying under a lamp, left to right: meadow vole, white footed mouseX2, southern flying squirrel, white footed mouse






The next few shots show how the beetles progressed with them.  The first few were hour to hour and the rest are over the course of two days.


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## Bigboy

At this point I removed some of the specimens and have added some more






Left to right: southern flying squirrel, white footed mousex3 and the old southern flying squirrel






For those of you that wanted to see the bugs a bit closer, I have this fuzzy shot.  The hairy ones are larvae, the beetle is the adult.






Here is the colony before and after giving them some water.  Note that the second picture was taken two days after the first.


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## Widowman10

is there a difference between how much they eat in larvae vs. adult?? does one eat more than the other?


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## Bigboy

Widowman10 said:


> is there a difference between how much they eat in larvae vs. adult?? does one eat more than the other?


The larvae are programmed genetically to eat eat eat eat, drink, and grow to eat more.  Adults are there to eat enough to keep breeding.


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## Widowman10

Bigboy said:


> The larvae are programmed genetically to eat eat eat eat, drink, and grow to eat more.  Adults are there to eat enough to keep breeding.


so the larvae probably eat more then in your opinion? cool stuff.


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## Endagr8

Those guys are too cool.  Awesome pics. :clap: ...I love time lapse sequences.

Why do you put the carcasses under a drying lamp? Is it to reduce the smell?


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## Bigboy

Endagr8 said:


> Those guys are too cool.  Awesome pics. :clap: ...I love time lapse sequences.
> 
> Why do you put the carcasses under a drying lamp? Is it to reduce the smell?


If you don't dry them out then you're adding that much more moisture into the tank which isn't what you want to do in something that constantly has dead animals in it.  Drying them to a jerky-like consistency also helps keep a larger specimen from spoiling in the tank if the bugs are taking a while to eat it.  It is one of the key differences between a horribly smelly bug box and a bug box with a strange odor.


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## Pacmaster

Again, thanks for the thread and the pics, very informative and helpful/useful!


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## bhoeschcod

They drink oops i thought they didnt


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## bhoeschcod

Widowman10 said:


> so the larvae probably eat more then in your opinion? cool stuff.


mine sure eat i have yet to see one of my adults eat mine are a diffrent species mine are larder beetles


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## Choobaine

Oh bigboy, dermestids AND orchids? a man after my own heart  

the species I use are absolutely great for cleaning out invertebrates, I have a nice little collection of hollowed out bugs, if you keep a close eye on what they're doing it's very possible to have prefectly preserved specimens, but light as air. no mess, no fuss, no smell!*

_
*I must add the process is quite risky, especially for fragile bugs, but perfectly seethrough Schistocerca makes it all worth it _


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## xhexdx

So, from my experience with these, they fly like mad.  How do you keep them from flying out when you remove the lid?  Just try and be quick about it?

Really cool pics and info, thanks. 

--Joe

EDIT:  I also meant to ask what you use the colony for.  Feeders, I assume?


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## Widowman10

xhexdx said:


> So, from my experience with these, they fly like mad.  How do you keep them from flying out when you remove the lid?  Just try and be quick about it?


depends on the species. the kind i have locally here don't really fly at all, never had one fly away on me. what species do you have?


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## Bigboy

xhexdx said:


> So, from my experience with these, they fly like mad.  How do you keep them from flying out when you remove the lid?  Just try and be quick about it?
> I also meant to ask what you use the colony for.  Feeders, I assume?


From what I've learned, the adults will only fly if the temperature exceeds 80degrees f.
Feeders, oh my no.  This is a colony I am raising for the University of Rhode Island's Natural Resource Science Department.  They are strictly for the creation of skeletal specimens.
Truth be told, having seen them squished before I'd feel bad for the animal that has to eat one.


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## bhoeschcod

Any updates?


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## BeetleflyGuy

Excellent, and informative post! Any pictures of skeletal preparations, preferrably of anurans?


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## Bigboy

Actually, I haven't prepped any anurans yet.  Come to think of it I can't imagine why not.  I have a domestic rabbit to prep for them this evening though.  I'll see what I can do in the next week or so about getting a frog or a toad maybe from someones freezer.


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## bhoeschcod

Who keeps frogs in the freezer?


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## Bigboy

As promised, though a bit late I'm adding into this thread a quick caresheet for anyone who may be interested in how I keep these beetles.  

_*Dermestes maculatus*_
The Container
 The first thing we need to take into consideration is the size of container to be used and the material it is made out of.  For a smaller colony of beetles, say something under 600 you would be best served with a 5gallon all glass aquarium with a screen cover.  any colony between 600-3000 will be happily and safely housed within a ten gallon all glass aquarium with again a screen cover.  My reasoning for this is simple. In a large container the beetles have to roam too much to find their food.  When confined to where their food lies they will eat it faster and will in turn grow faster.  I say screen covers because you want to keep the enclosure relatively dry and screens allow for excellent ventilation.  When the cage becomes too humid it will begin to smell as various microorganisms take up residence in this little fleshpit/bug box that you have created.  Increased humidity also gives rise to the possibility that your colony will become infested with mites.  When this happens the only thing to do is start over.  That means killing every beetle you have and starting from scratch with "uninfected" beetles in a sterilized new container.  The reason I choose glass is because these beetles will chew through everything.  I've heard people joke that they will chew through thin metal and the more I see of them the less I believe it to be a joke.  They will chew through soft plastics, wood, and eventually hard plastics.

Substrate
  I use styrofoam as a substrate.  Nothing can grow on it whereas cardboard will harbor mold and the beetles like it just the same.  The bore through it, hide in it, and pupate in it as they would cardboard.  I keep my colonies on this almost exclusively.  I also put several sheets of paper towel down on top of the styrofoam which I place their food on.  The paper towel is also useful in holding in some moisture after misting and allows them to drink and maintains a slight background humidity.

Food and Water
 For watering I use a spray bottle and lightly mist the colony every few days.  They relish water and you will almost never see them as active as after a light misting.  I'll say it once more LIGHT MISTING.  Never spray them more than will evaporate within 10 hours at most.  A wet colony is a smelly and unhealthy colony, neither of which you want in your home I assure you.  Food is simple.  They do not need meat on the bone.  I for the most part give them strips of dried meat either from fresh roadkill I've begun to prep or organ meat such as beef heart that you can get at the grocery store for 80cents a pound.  All of the meat you give them should be dried to a jerky-like consistancy.  They will gladly eat wet food, but giving them this increases the chance that things will rot before they consume it all, adding to the smell and the chance of things dripping and oozing into the substrate...  I dry all food with a heat lamp, the same kind as you would use for a reptile but I've seen it done with desk lamps as well.  Some people use dog or cat food in a pinch but I don't for the simple reason that they don't eat it fast enough and it will work its way to the bottom of the substrate where it will grow mold.  Keep meat in constant supply because there will be a constant demand for it.  The more food you give them the bigger the colony will get.  In the absence of food I've watched adults eat the eggs of others and I imagine they would do so happily to small larvae as well.  

Temperature/heating
 Above 80degrees f. adults will begin to fly.  This is a problem because it means that you may start finding them around your home.  You may not care, but your significant other, parents, or guests might.  If you have any uncured furs, pelts, meats drying, etc, these beetles will find it and begin eating it.  Best temps are in the low to mid 70's.  Below these temps you will see much less activity from the colony and I would never risk letting them get below 60.  I heat them with an under the tank heater which you can find in the reptile section of your local pet store.  During the summer you may not even need to plug this in but during the winter I leave mine on constantly.

Lighting
 I've kepth beetles in total darkness and in direct sunlight and neither seems to phase them.  you will see them scatter if you shine bright light on them but they soon become accustomed to it.  I prefer to keep mine in the light simply for the pleasure of seeing them work.

So there is is.  Simple and to the point


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## WhiteyMcFreckle

Thanks for the care sheet, and for the rest of this thread.

I'm keeping them in the dark for the most part, but I'm thinking of moving them somewhere with steady light. As of now they still kind of scatter when I come in and flip the switch. They seem most active during the morning, and like you said, right after a misting.


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## Bigboy

WhiteyMcFreckle said:


> Thanks for the care sheet, and for the rest of this thread.
> 
> I'm keeping them in the dark for the most part, but I'm thinking of moving them somewhere with steady light. As of now they still kind of scatter when I come in and flip the switch. They seem most active during the morning, and like you said, right after a misting.


Never thought I'd see you posting here again Whitey.  Give us some pics of that colony one of these days.


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## bhoeschcod

sweet thanks!


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## bhoeschcod

Any updates?


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## codykrr

ok i have the american carrion beatles..and was wondering. a few things.

ok i want to drop a snake in to collect the bones for resin casting. say once they cleared all the meat from the bones. what is the best way to clean any left over particals. and give it a nice white look?


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## Widowman10

correct me if i'm wrong, but from what i've observed, Necrophila do different work than dermestids. you would probably be better off using derms.


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## RoachGirlRen

Oh wow. This is most fantastic. I've always wanted to have a bug box, and seeing this only makes me want one more. I'll be saving your tips for when I have my own place and can start up one of my own


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## bhoeschcod

I agree with widow man you may not get the same results as dermistids you should use something small[like a mouse]just to be sure the beetles do what you inteanded them to do if they don't then get dermistids they will do the job right you also need a larger amount of larvae and beetles as larvae eat more hence making the skull or snake cleaning faster[they eat off the meat faster as they eat more as larvae.]


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## codykrr

well so far they have striped 2 full grown mice in amatter of days. so i dont know if there as good as dermisted(spelling?) beatles but may come close? ok but either way. what would i need to do to make sire all the bones are spic and span clean?


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## jmiller

After the bones are stripped you soak them in 3 to 6 percent solution of h2o2.  

This will make them white, clean any oil/fat off, and make them so they do not smell.  

Hope this helps.


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## bhoeschcod

Anymore updates,bigboy?BTW my colony is reproducing!


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## koolkid98

Nice thread how are they doing?


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## Dave

Bigboy,
Let me ask you, are the larval stage of these beetles what are very commonly found in cricket box shipments?


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## koolkid98

Yes they are depending on were in the world you live and where you get your crickets from.


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## Dave

Great. Then I already have a a small colony started!


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## koolkid98

I hope your colony grows up to be a great one any pictures??


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## koolkid98

I have just found some in my house and i currently am keeping them hope my colony grows to be as big as yours big boy.


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## Dave

~demon said:


> I hope your colony grows up to be a great one any pictures??


I got like, nothin' for macro with my camera  . Sorry.
(...and that's good English! )


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## Bigboy

Sorry for the lack of updates, I passed on the main colony to another student and while I'm away for the summer I have WhiteyMcFreckle watching the side colony.  Updates to come This October.

Dave- you probably have found Dermestes spp in your cricket boxes, I've found them there before.

Codykrr- Carrion beetles will do a good job, but they like meat moist and that can get smelly.  The rotting meat will also stain bones pretty and to the best of my knowledge they are more likely to give up on old meat than the derms are.  if you do have success would you mind posting some pictures on the completed work and the colony?  I'd be really interested to see them at work.


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## bhoeschcod

Okay its october LOL!


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## Bigboy

Hah, sorry bhoeschcod, I just got settled back in and the new colony (roughly 1000 I think) is building as we speak.   I've been feeding them lunch meats and boiled ground beef.  Once I find my usb cable I'll throw in some pictures.  Should be an interesting winter to see them at work since I'll be trapping this year and might get some goodies for them to clean.


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## koolkid98

Hey bigboy i have a proplem with my larder beetles flying any suggestions?


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## koolkid98

So any pictures?


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## ZergFront

I think I got one of these guys in with my pinheads. Just pupated today. Doesn't get much cleaning of dead crickets done but it is an army of one afterall.  

 Anyone here ship crickets and these beetle larvae?


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## koolkid98

Cool.Mine are all[exept one] adult larder beetles 17 adults and 1 larvae about 2-3 moults away from becoming mature!


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## koolkid98

Hey any new pictures it's november!


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## koolkid98

Anything new?


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## koolkid98

Anything new bigboy?


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## Bigboy

I've not been very active on these boards, but my colony of beetles collapsed.  I'm rebuilding it but I'll be leaving the country this summer and will very likely be finding a new home for these beetles as long as I think they're healthy. If not I'll be destroying them to prevent spreading whatever has caused my colony collapse.  Updates coming this week, promise.


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## koolkid98

Cool can't wait.


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## codykrr

next year if i get another buck and wanted to do a European style mount(bleach white skull but the antler's untouched) would these eat any remaining velvet, bark or any part that gives the rack "character"?

i assuming these would be perfect for eating all the flesh and such away, i just wouldn't want to jeopardize the rack itself.


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## koolkid98

Not if you remove it at the perfect time.


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## Bigboy

codykrr said:


> next year if i get another buck and wanted to do a European style mount(bleach white skull but the antler's untouched) would these eat any remaining velvet, bark or any part that gives the rack "character"?
> 
> i assuming these would be perfect for eating all the flesh and such away, i just wouldn't want to jeopardize the rack itself.


Wrap the antlers in saran wrap, then foil and smear any openings in that wrapping in Vaseline.  They'll be safe.


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## koolkid98

Hey bigboy i have been told to feed them hotdogs,how do you prepare the hotdogs for a small colony under 10?


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## Bigboy

Hot dogs should be okay, I can't say I've ever raised them on hot dogs alone though so I can't tell you if its a good staple.  Just dry the food out until it is like jerky and you can't go wrong.  Here is a picture of what I have going on in the basement.
Here they are eating some left over steak that has been allowed to dry out.


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## koolkid98

WOW cool thanks for the info my friend told me to try beef raw beef i'm going to try that.I've actually got no beetles at the moment do they have a specific time of the year they turn into beetles?


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## Bigboy

koolkid98 said:


> WOW cool thanks for the info my friend told me to try beef raw beef i'm going to try that.I've actually got no beetles at the moment do they have a specific time of the year they turn into beetles?


They breed year round, no specific times for pupating in captivity.  Its like one long summer for them.


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## koolkid98

Not for mine at least  can't wait till spring i'll be getting way more beetles and such.Colony is now at 13 and has eaten a fingernail sized piece of beef.


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## Bigboy

Updates soon to come.  I will be getting a rabbit skull to clean for the USFWS to determine if it is a New England Cottontail or an Eastern Cottontail.  This could prove to be very exciting if it is actually a New England Cottontail.


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## koolkid98

We need some updates.


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## bhoeschcod

Anything New?


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## bhoeschcod

Its been a couple months anything new??????????


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## Maxhoule

What is the purpose of dermestid? Feeders?


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## Dark

they are used as shown throughout the thread to clean carcasses of dead animals and the skeletons can be bleached and prepared for display.


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## Bigboy

I've been very slack, my apologies.  The cottontail was just you average Eastern.  Sorry no pictures.  I no longer have a colony of dermestids, not sure when I will start another.  Time will tell.  I may get the opportunity soon to begin prepping a saltwater crocodile skull however, stay tuned to not so spineless wonders for that bit of fun.


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