# Pandinus ID please.



## ~Androctonus~ (Jul 2, 2008)

*Sold as P.cav., but I don't know now..*look alike little cav., but maybe is it smithi [or any another pandinus sp/spp] ?
it's strange bright brown colored on the "nouse", all the cav.s i had untile now had not this color :? and it's have no dent..

what the age [SIZE, +/-] that P.cav. get's theyre chelas' dents ?
i saw some adults that id as pcav and hadn't this dents, maybe M/F, or wrong ID ?

Pics:



*Thank,
- david.*


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## tabor (Jul 2, 2008)

See this thread for an in depth discussion. 

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=128300

There is apparently no ID guide and some new species has been imported marketed as various things. I'm _guessing _yours is P. exitialis.


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## ~Androctonus~ (Jul 2, 2008)

it's a little bit look alike viatoris, but i don't know, the viatoris is little bit brighter foot and longer chelas, but maybe that's because it's a young one ? exitialis looks very different as i know.


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## tabor (Jul 2, 2008)

There is no definitive ID guide so no one will ever be able to tell you.

Look through the thread I linked.


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## tabor (Jul 2, 2008)

Where do you buy it? Or where was it collected at?


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## ~Androctonus~ (Jul 2, 2008)

*so no way is it cavimanus, yes ?*
i had trade for it with  PH guy, i don't know what the source, but i'm pretty sure that this one is WC. i'll ask him what he know about this spiciment history


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## tabor (Jul 2, 2008)

Knowing where it came from would help.

It *might *be a P. cavimanus (there's plenty of variation within a species), but I doubt it.


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## ~Androctonus~ (Jul 2, 2008)

OK, I'll let you know from where is it [if he will know that :wall:].


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## tabor (Jul 2, 2008)

It could easily be a P. cav


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## ~Androctonus~ (Jul 2, 2008)

Where is the cavimanus' chelas' dent :? ???


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## talljosh003 (Jul 2, 2008)

tabor said:


> It could easily be a P. cav


good reference!


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## tabor (Jul 2, 2008)

talljosh003 said:


> good reference!


The whole genus is a mess. That's my point!


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## K3jser (Jul 3, 2008)

~Androctonus~ said:


> Where is the cavimanus' chelas' dent :? ???


males have does, females dont..


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## ~Androctonus~ (Jul 3, 2008)

Thank you.


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## ~Androctonus~ (Jul 3, 2008)

No, unfortunately he don't know where is it collected.
Did someone have any picture of Pandinus smithi ?


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## tabor (Jul 3, 2008)

~Androctonus~ said:


> Did someone have any picture of Pandinus smithi ?


There are no *official *pictures, but this is what is being sold as P. smithii:


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## talljosh003 (Jul 3, 2008)

when do u think people will be able to have a definite ID on these?


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## Galapoheros (Jul 3, 2008)

At the store I bought that from, they only had it labeled as "Pandinus species".  But they had some black ones with light colored legs that were labeled as P. smithii next to it.  Haha, weeeeeeeeedoggy! ..what are these things! ...ha!   anyway, this one sure is hungry, maybe gravid ..or just really hungry.


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## ftorres (Jul 3, 2008)

tabor said:


> There are no *official *pictures, but this is what is being sold as P. smithii:



I think this pics are from a P viatoris specimen. P smithi has a black body and a lot more granulation on the chela.

Anyways a lot of PAndinus imperator juveniles have a redish body, so I think what you have is P imperator and there is a little chance of being P cavimanus but a very small chance.

good luck.

francisco


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## tabor (Jul 3, 2008)

talljosh003 said:


> when do u think people will be able to have a definite ID on these?


Whenever an official scorpiologist with access to specimens of all the species writes a guide on it and it gets published in a peer-reviewed science journal. So probably years?


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## Michiel (Jul 3, 2008)

1. The animals that where initially sold as P.smithi, where later regarded as P.gregoryi and in the end they where identified as P.exitialis. 
2. The animal in the picture is probably P.cavimanus and is definetly not P.exitialis, because of the different overall coloration. Because coloration isn't a very strong taxonomical key point, yuo should also check the lenght of the scorpion (tip aculeus to edge of carapace) and the granulation on the carapace and chela. 
Too bad you don't have locality data, this makes Id'ing this specimen harder, besides the taxononomical nightmares. 

Cheers, Michiel


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## tabor (Jul 3, 2008)

I'm starting my own ID guide since no one else seems to be working on one.







Hope this helps people! Only a few more species to go, and ones like dictator can be ruled out easily


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## ~Androctonus~ (Jul 6, 2008)

K3jser said:


> males have does, females dont..


http://youtube.com/watch?v=kdVvoSP8QtY

They both have dents.. [i know that's p.canv and not p.imp]
so... no way that's only males have dents..

BTW - one part of the movie is PCAV and another is PIMP


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## ~Androctonus~ (Jul 9, 2008)

~Androctonus~ said:


> Where is the cavimanus' chelas' dent :? ???





K3jser said:


> males have does, females dont..





~Androctonus~ said:


> http://youtube.com/watch?v=kdVvoSP8QtY
> 
> They both have dents.. [i know that's p.canv and not p.imp]
> so... no way that's only males have dents..
> ...


Sorry for the double post, but anyone can explain this please ??


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## Michiel (Jul 10, 2008)

Look at the pictures posted to discover "the dent" in the chela of males. This P.cavimanus (from the first pic) is the dark colored morph, they are also more reddish specimens, which the one in the picture clearly isn't.


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## ~Androctonus~ (Jul 10, 2008)

Michiel said:


> Look at the pictures posted to discover "the dent" in the chela of males. This P.cavimanus (from the first pic) is the dark colored morph, they are also more reddish specimens, which the one in the picture clearly isn't.


i think you miss that film-strip:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=kdVvoSP8QtY

there you acn see that they mate - that's mean they are pair, because at the end you see the spermatophore.
at the film-strip you can see clearly that *they BOTH have dents*, the male and the female TOO. if it color morph that's never mined - it's the same spicies - P.cav, and you can see both of them have dents...

now i'm really confused..:?


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## talljosh003 (Jul 11, 2008)

lets just wait for Tabor to finish his guide


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## Michiel (Jul 11, 2008)

I am not going to watch the film, because I don't feel like it  Let's not make things more complicated then they are. 
The pictures posted above by Ryan of the chela shows well enough that males have a large inner tooth (or dent) in their chela, and females don't. If the vid shows two specimens mating and both have dents, then they either are both males (it happens sometimes that males try to mate, silly scorpions), or you are not looking at the right "body parts".


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## ~Androctonus~ (Jul 12, 2008)

just watch the movie, it's only 3 mins..
that's National Geographic's film-strip, they have both dents and you can see spermatophore after mating. i don't think they will put 2 males at the film, maybe you right, but they both have dents.


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## EAD063 (Jul 12, 2008)

~Androctonus~ said:


> just watch the movie, it's only 3 mins..
> that's National Geographic's film-strip, they have both dents and you can see spermatophore after mating. i don't think they will put 2 males at the film, maybe you right, but they both have dents.


What is funny is in that video, the specimen they claim to be female is the one that dropped the spermataphore.

As Michiel said.. I've seen two males try to mate as well.


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## Michiel (Jul 13, 2008)

Well, here you go, their you have it


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## mushiking (Sep 22, 2008)

That doesn't seem like a pandinus sp.


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## ~Androctonus~ (Oct 1, 2008)

oh yes, it is. but i have no idea about the subspicie .


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## cjm1991 (Oct 4, 2008)

*Heterometrus swammerdami*

Well noone mentioned these guys, it could be the answer????
http://www.spidy.goliathus.com/english/heterometrus-swammerdami-id335.html


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## ~Androctonus~ (Oct 4, 2008)

cjm1991 said:


> Well noone mentioned these guys, it could be the answer????
> http://www.spidy.goliathus.com/english/heterometrus-swammerdami-id335.html


no way, it have no grains at all, and colors like P.cav.
this spicie is pretty rare and very expensive. no way that's a swammerdami. maybe i have to wait until it will grow up ?
no way to know now, just to make assumptions.
if anyone have any idea, please share.


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## cjm1991 (Oct 4, 2008)

~Androctonus~ said:


> no way, it have no grains at all, and colors like P.cav.
> this spicie is pretty rare and very expensive. no way that's a swammerdami. maybe i have to wait until it will grow up ?
> no way to know now, just to make assumptions.
> if anyone have any idea, please share.


I was just throwing ideas out there.. :evil:


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## ~Androctonus~ (Oct 5, 2008)

cjm1991 said:


> I was just throwing ideas out there.. :evil:


i didn't meant to insult you, sorry.
just wondering if anyone have any idea, and if someone says something that isn't right - for sure, i just corrected..
i don't think it's any heterometrus. scorpio - not too.
this guy is very similar to pandinus, but the question is what sp.


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## Galapoheros (Oct 5, 2008)

After googling around, it looks like P. viatoris to me.  But in this area, research using pics and google is risky.  Dependable IDs will be nailed down by a site eventually.   Many people think they "know" as much as the person the really does know.  So the people that think they know post pics of mis-IDed animals.  It's really a mess out there right now with some species but it will come together eventually.


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## 8+) (Oct 9, 2008)

I got these from Todd Gearhart as P. Gregoryi, from Kenya. Most look like the first set. I'm just not that good at noticing the details, but it looks like they could also be P. exitialis or P. bellicosus? 






















Then this looks like the one tabor said was being sold as P. smithii, but the claws on mine (or in his pics) don't seem to match the bumpy ones in the key:






















Same as #2?:


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