# Whats wrong with this gecko!?!?!



## Embers To Ashes (Apr 12, 2011)

At work (pet store) we have this lepperd gecko that is..uh... mentaly chalanged. He can not walk streight, can not eat on his own, and can only move in counterclockwise circles. When you hand feed him, most of the time he misses his pray by about two inches because he can only "strike" in a counter clockwise motion. We have 4 other lepperd geckos that are fine, about 10 diffrent species of lizzerds, about 20 snakes, frogs... and they are all (for the most part) fine. What is wrong with this little guy? I don't know how long he has been like this.


----------



## ilovepink (Apr 12, 2011)

Thats weird. And sad. I had a frog from the pet store once and it displayed similar behaviour. An article online said that the animals aren't handled properly before they arrive at the pet store and that could contribute to their...issues.


----------



## Lucas339 (Apr 14, 2011)

i have seen this happen to a leo before.  i asked around for a while and someone told me that it was from too much calcium.  not sure if i buy it though.  

i know if reptiles get too hot, it can cause neuro damage which would lead to what you are describing.


----------



## DawnW (Apr 14, 2011)

Is the leo an Enigma? Sounds like some of the Enigma syndrome symptoms maybe, I don't know a huge amount about it though.

Does he ever appear to be staring into space, any shedding issues?


----------



## LeilaNami (Apr 15, 2011)

I've known many animals that display these symptoms when they have neurological disorders.  We constantly had leopard geckos and hamsters coming in like that at Petco.


----------



## naturejoe (Apr 17, 2011)

Ear infections can cause this reaction in animals as well.


----------



## Embers To Ashes (Apr 19, 2011)

DawnW said:


> Is the leo an Enigma? Sounds like some of the Enigma syndrome symptoms maybe, I don't know a huge amount about it though.
> 
> Does he ever appear to be staring into space, any shedding issues?


Yes! It is an Enigma! It has had some shedding problems. She lost some toes due to it. She is always staring into space.


----------



## DawnW (Apr 19, 2011)

Embers To Ashes said:


> Yes! It is an Enigma! It has had some shedding problems. She lost some toes due to it. She is always staring into space.


Ah bless her. Like I said I don't know a huge amount about it, but I'll share what I do know 

It's a neurological defect affecting balance (hence not being able to strike), related to the Enigma morph. Mild cases are simply a slight head tilt and staring into space periodically (known as 'star gazing'). The circling is more severe, but is sometimes prompted by fright, or being exposed to bright lights. If she is in a lighted vivarium I would turn the lights off. Don't know if it would help though. They will circle with no apparent cause in more severe cases. Also as you mentioned an inability to shed unaided. 

In the most severe cases, the leo will circle in a frenzy, for no apparent reason, before flipping onto her back. Comparable to a death roll  

In milder cases, the leo will be rather dependent on the keeper to survive. In the more severe cases, it is often kinder to euthanise.

She should definitely not be sold, in my opinion  Do you have the time and desire to take her home and look after her for whatever time she has?


----------



## Embers To Ashes (Apr 21, 2011)

Thats sad.     She is not for sale because we know the care she needs. I have seen her roll on her back once. I wish I could buy her but she is $100. Our reptile manager might be able to take her though. Right now she is being hand fed and taken care of the best we can. Is there anything we can do besides euthanise her? We can build a gas chamber to put her out of her missory if need be, but if there is another way we will defanantly try. We all love her.


----------



## neubii18 (Apr 22, 2011)

She should not be put to sleep.She just has what we in the leopard gecko community call "Enigma Syndrome".I personally do not breed this morph or any combos due to this setback.They display some amazing color,but it's not worth their discomfort to me.I can't knowingly bring mentally retarded animals into the world.

Anyways,geckos like these just need to go to someone who will not be breeding her,and can give the 1 on 1 time she needs to feed and what not.Try to keep her away from lights,as that tends to make it worse on them.Stress makes the symptoms worse,so she really needs to be away from the pet store.I would try to talk to the manager and tell them that it should not be sold for $100,but rather free,or the ammount worth in feeders you've fed her,as long as she goes to a loving home.It was obviously an unethical breeder who sold this girl instead of keeping her.It's something that all Enigma breeders should be ready for.I hope this helped,and if there is anything else I can help you with her,please let me know.I would pay you guys to get her,but I wouldn't want to put her through the stress of shipping.Anyways,good luck with her!


----------



## DawnW (Apr 22, 2011)

Embers To Ashes said:


> Thats sad.     She is not for sale because we know the care she needs. I have seen her roll on her back once. I wish I could buy her but she is $100. Our reptile manager might be able to take her though. Right now she is being hand fed and taken care of the best we can. Is there anything we can do besides euthanise her? We can build a gas chamber to put her out of her missory if need be, but if there is another way we will defanantly try. We all love her.


That is sad. Bless you for caring enough to come on here to try find out what's wrong with her 

Why is she marked as $100 if she's not for sale? Putting aside the unfairness for the leo, getting sold to a home where the keeper may not be capable/willing to give the care she needs, it is also hugely unfair on the person who may buy her, not knowing about Enigma syndrome (though I do believe people should fully know what they're getting into before buying animals...but that's a whole other thing!)



asn1234 said:


> She should not be put to sleep.She just has what we in the leopard gecko community call "Enigma Syndrome".I personally do not breed this morph or any combos due to this setback.They display some amazing color,but it's not worth their discomfort to me.I can't knowingly bring mentally retarded animals into the world.


You obviously know more about it than me, I don't keep any lizards at all at present and have just learned a little about many things as I've went along 

But if the symptoms are so severe, then euthanasia can be kinder. I personally don't think you can say it's 'just' Enigma syndrome. The back flips are a sign of the most severe manifestation of the syndrome, caused by neck extension and muscle spasm (because movement is so chaotic and frenzied).   

Obviously it's a choice for the keeper to make though.

Embers, If I were getting a pet put to sleep, I would want my vet to do it. But I have no (technical or otherwise!) idea about ways to do it yourself that are humane and simple.


----------



## OrdoMallus (Apr 22, 2011)

Same thing happens to Spider morphs of ball pythons. The get "wobble". Although with what little I know about it and the Enigma genetics. Breeding a spider ball python with a bad case of wobble doesn't mean all the offspring have it. Lots of times none of them have it. Well I shouldn't say that, all spider morphs have wobble, its just how much shows. I personally don't agree with it but its not a dominant genetic feature that effects all of them so its kinda a crapshoot to know whether you'll end up with any with bad wobble or not. You can have a parent with horrible wobble that will produce spiders with no wobble showing in the offspring at all. 

I can't remember exactly what causes it but I'm assuming its very similair to the enigma trait. The sad fact is, Leo's and BP morphs have only been coming out over the last 10 years out of the approximately 30 they've been in captivity. Its a horrible amount of inbreeding and genetic breakdown with a lot of the morphs. 

Layne


----------



## Embers To Ashes (Apr 24, 2011)

She is marked at $100, but she is in the quarinteen room (with the carpet python we got from the same people with a majour respatory infection and mouth rot) Nothing back there is for sale intill we treat it and it recovers. We got her from outback. 75% of the animals we buy from them are either in poor health, inbred, or have a majour condition they dont tell us about. But the store owner just keeps buying from them. I talked this over with the reptile manager. She may take her home. In the mean time, she is in a nice quiet place with no bright lights and is getting hand fed food and water. Thank you for all of the help.


----------



## DawnW (Apr 24, 2011)

Aww, well best of luck with her wherever she goes  

I read a lot of poor reviews of wholesalers in the UK too, shame a lot of them don't seem to have the right priorities.


----------



## Spam010 (Apr 29, 2011)

Poor thing  mother nature can be very cruel


----------

