# The "new & improved" GE silicone caulk



## robc (Feb 16, 2010)

Has anyone used the new and improved version of the GE silicone window & door caulk? I've been using the old version for my backdrops for a long time and now that they've changed it, there is an odd odor coming off of the backdrop, even though it's cured for 3 days now. The smell hasn't gone away yet and it makes me wonder how "cured" it is...and if it's safe to put in a T enclosure. Has anyone else run into this?

*This is the new caulk:*

http://www.caulkyourhome.com/index.php

Thanks

Robc


----------



## xhexdx (Feb 16, 2010)

Maybe compare the ingredients of the two?

Seems logical...


----------



## redrumpslump (Feb 16, 2010)

i wouldnt use it if it has a weird smell coming from it.


----------



## robc (Feb 16, 2010)

xhexdx said:


> Maybe compare the incredients of the two?
> 
> Seems logical...


If you mean “ingredients”, that information is proprietary and they can’t give it out. I have contacted them and apparently it’s just the catalyst that is different – making it dry faster.

Thanks for the thought though.


----------



## CAK (Feb 17, 2010)

Weird...   I thought 100% silicone is 100% silicone...   

If there is a chemical smell coming from it, I'd definitely have my guard up or test it on the wife or something first.


----------



## james.m (Feb 17, 2010)

I used it and let it cure for a week. Afterward both tanks seemed to have pasted the smell test so I upgraded 2 avics to them and they seemed fine until the both died of nematods about a month and a half later. Poor guys, they were WC.  So I really don't think u will have a problem once the smell passes.  Also, I noticed that the tubes I bought at home depot had already had half  the silicon dried in the tube.  Not sure if u had that or not. 


 Sorry for formatting. This was written from a cell phone.


----------



## robc (Feb 17, 2010)

james.m said:


> I used it and let it cure for a week. Afterward both tanks seemed to have pasted the smell test so I upgraded 2 avics to them and they seemed fine until the both died of nematods about a month and a half later. Poor guys, they were WC.  So I really don't think u will have a problem once the smell passes.  Also, I noticed that the tubes I bought at home depot had already had half  the silicon dried in the tube.  Not sure if u had that or not.
> 
> 
> Sorry for formatting. This was written from a cell phone.


Thank you for the info - exactly what I was looking for! Just to clarify, sorry...the caulk you used was the exact same kind I had in that link (same packaging and everything)? Half the caulk was dried already? That is very odd and I would have returned it. LOL  Also, once your caulk finally cured completely, what was the consistency like? Was it rubbery and stretchy like caulk normally is after curing? Mine, the portions that seem cured, is more brittle than normal. It's very odd. When I talked to the rep from GE on the phone today, she told me that as far as she was aware, the only change was the catalyst that causes the caulk to dry by absorbing moisture from the air so I don't see why it's any different at all (other than that it's supposed to dry/cure faster) but the old caulk didn't smell at all after 24 hours.


----------



## TalonAWD (Feb 17, 2010)

I have used it for Enclosure creation #7 and #8. It works just like the old one. Never had any of my tarantulas get sick or die from using their products. If you are worried about the additives you can use my new silicone choice which I describe in Enclosure creation #9 (Link in my signature under EC #9) Its FDA approved safe for food surfaces. Go to my link and you will see the link to the silicone I use. Its cheaper than GE Silicone II.
Stuff is better than GE II and has a stronger bond. Not to mention is 100% safe with no additives.

This is the only silicone i will use now. Check it out. 

I use alot of silicone for my creations so I have plenty of experience using silicone as well as being a custom cabinet builder for 7 years long ago. I would say use the stuff I now use. You will never worry again.


----------



## Steve Calceatum (Feb 17, 2010)

I've used it on some of my backdrops, and had no ill effects thus far.


----------



## james.m (Feb 17, 2010)

Same exact stuff I used.  I used the dark brown colored version of the silicon. One tube for each backdrop.  Mine seemed fine in relation to its texture and flexability to past produce used.


----------



## robc (Feb 17, 2010)

TalonAWD said:


> I have used it for Enclosure creation #7 and #8. It works just like the old one. Never had any of my tarantulas get sick or die from using their products. If you are worried about the additives you can use my new silicone choice which I describe in Enclosure creation #9 (Link in my signature under EC #9) Its FDA approved safe for food surfaces. Go to my link and you will see the link to the silicone I use. Its cheaper than GE Silicone II.
> Stuff is better than GE II and has a stronger bond. Not to mention is 100% safe with no additives.
> 
> This is the only silicone i will use now. Check it out.
> ...


Thank you - great info!! I'll look into that!


----------



## robc (Feb 17, 2010)

xsyorra said:


> I've used it on some of my backdrops, and had no ill effects thus far.


Which one are you referring to? The one I mentioned or the one Talon was talking about? I just checked out the info on the one Talon mentioned and I think that might just be my new caulk. LOL


----------



## robc (Feb 17, 2010)

TalonAWD said:


> I have used it for Enclosure creation #7 and #8. It works just like the old one. Never had any of my tarantulas get sick or die from using their products. If you are worried about the additives you can use my new silicone choice which I describe in Enclosure creation #9 (Link in my signature under EC #9) Its FDA approved safe for food surfaces. Go to my link and you will see the link to the silicone I use. Its cheaper than GE Silicone II.
> Stuff is better than GE II and has a stronger bond. Not to mention is 100% safe with no additives.
> 
> This is the only silicone i will use now. Check it out.
> ...


Oops - another quick question: I checked it out and it looks like it'll work great but how long does it take to cure? And once it cures, it's non-toxic, correct? Figured yes but wanted to ask. LOL  Thanks again!!


----------



## TalonAWD (Feb 17, 2010)

robc said:


> Oops - another quick question: I checked it out and it looks like it'll work great but how long does it take to cure? And once it cures, it's non-toxic, correct? Figured yes but wanted to ask. LOL  Thanks again!!


It sets in 15 minutes just like the GE brand. The smell is different because its a RTV silicone which means Room Temperature Vulcanizing. It has a Vinegar smell as it cures.
Cures fully in 24 hrs and achieves maximum strength in 7 days according to the label.
Now one difference is that the GE II retains a smell even after its cured. The New silicone 5005 will not smell after fully cured just like Aquarium silicone. Its really rubbery which I really like and unlike the GE II brand, its bond is alot stronger.
Just like Aquarium silicone, as you use it, the smell of the acetic acid can knock you out. (Really strong vinegar smell) So do not take a wiff like I did. It stops your breath immediately lol.

Oh and yes...Its completly Non toxic.


----------



## robc (Feb 17, 2010)

TalonAWD said:


> Now one difference is that the GE II retains a smell even after its cured.


I have never noticed this until this new and improved GE II came out, but again I never really tried to sniff it  closely LOL! IF it is giving off a slight smell would you say it is toxic, you have to basically put your nose on the backdrop to smell it...it has been curing for about 4 days. I will say I am going to switch to the one in your link, but I would hate to throw away 5 backdrops if it is not needed!


----------



## TalonAWD (Feb 17, 2010)

robc said:


> I have never noticed this until this new and improved GE II came out, but again I never really tried to sniff it  closely LOL! IF it is giving off a slight smell would you say it is toxic, you have to basically put your nose on the backdrop to smell it...it has been curing for about 4 days. I will say I am going to switch to the one in your link, but I would hate to throw away 5 backdrops if it is not needed!


Oh no, you do not need to toss the backdrops. With Enclosures 7 and 8, If I take a wiff, I still smell the silicone. And yes you are right, when they changed over to this new and improved version, the smell became apparant. For all my Exo-Terras I used the old version of GE silicone II and absolutely no smell.
Right now I have a tarantula in enclosure #8 and she is doing just dandy. The smell is still there but not as bad as before. Its now almost 2 months ago that I made that enclosure IIRC. I even put the enclosure on top of my oil filled radiator set on 1500Watts (high) for 2 days thinking that it needed to dry more but the smell never left fully. Thats why I decided to look  for a more "Safer" product that resembles the Aquarium silicone but at a better price.


----------



## robc (Feb 17, 2010)

TalonAWD said:


> Oh no, you do not need to toss the backdrops. With Enclosures 7 and 8, If I take a wiff, I still smell the silicone. And yes you are right, when they changed over to this new and improved version, the smell became apparant. For all my Exo-Terras I used the old version of GE silicone II and absolutely no smell.
> Right now I have a tarantula in enclosure #8 and she is doing just dandy. The smell is still there but not as bad as before. Its now almost 2 months ago that I made that enclosure IIRC. I even put the enclosure on top of my oil filled radiator set on 1500Watts (high) for 2 days thinking that it needed to dry more but the smell never left fully. Thats why I decided to look  for a more "Safer" product that resembles the Aquarium silicone but at a better price.


That is exactly the info I needed, I will be switching to, thanks for this great info, I appreciate it!! THe old GE II was a lot better IMHO! I have been told that what cures the new GE II is actually the moisture (humidity) in the air, not heat like I would have thought.


----------



## TalonAWD (Feb 17, 2010)

If you wanted the absolute best product for aquarium use than you would look at something like this...
http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumSilicone.html


----------



## TalonAWD (Feb 17, 2010)

robc said:


> That is exactly the info I needed, I will be switching to, thanks for this great info, I appreciate it!! THe old GE II was a lot better IMHO! I have been told that what cures the new GE II is actually the moisture (humidity) in the air, not heat like I would have thought.


Correct! that is what they added. I learned this when i researched it a month ago. But the problem with that is that its made to cure rapidly as in if you needed to seal a window before it rains. Because of the rapid curing, the bond is sacrificed.


----------



## Steve Calceatum (Feb 17, 2010)

robc said:


> Which one are you referring to? The one I mentioned or the one Talon was talking about? I just checked out the info on the one Talon mentioned and I think that might just be my new caulk. LOL


The one you mentioned. Admittedly, I'm not impressed with it as it takes forever to lose the odor, and doesn't seem to hold the substrate to the backdrop all that well.


----------



## TalonAWD (Feb 17, 2010)

Take a look at this paper... Its the specs of the best aquarium silicone sealant I posted in post #18

http://www.geocel.co.uk/dynpdfs/14.pdf

You will notice the main ingrediant for the curing process is Acetoxy. Its a one part curing process. 
Knowing this i set out to look for a silicone product that met this specification but at a reasonable price.

And if you look at my new choice in silicone product, its main ingrediant is Acetoxy. Its the same type of silicone but in a different packaging with a superb price.

Heres the product details of my choice. Look at the very first detail....



> *Product Features:
> 
> One-part acetoxy silicone rubber sealant
> Approved as a food Grade Silicone - NSF Standard 51, FDA and USDA approved
> ...


----------



## robc (Feb 17, 2010)

xsyorra said:


> The one you mentioned. Admittedly, I'm not impressed with it as it takes forever to lose the odor, and doesn't seem to hold the substrate to the backdrop all that well.


I am not impressed at all, the old GE II had a rubber like texture where this "New" formula almost like smears, you can almost rube the substarte off....that is why I was unsure if it was cured or not. Usually when caulk cures it has a shiny like texture and stretches, not this stuff LOL. I have not had this in a tank yet so I guess i will see. I made 40 or so backdrops with the old stuff and hadn't gone to get supplies and I was like great, this is never good.....why change something that is not broken??


----------



## robc (Feb 17, 2010)

TalonAWD said:


> Correct! that is what they added. I learned this when i researched it a month ago. But the problem with that is that its made to cure rapidly as in if you needed to seal a window before it rains. Because of the rapid curing, the bond is sacrificed.


IMO it took longer to cure, but again when this stuff cures it has a odor and it may have been cured faster. To me if a product has a odor it isn't cured LOL. The old GE II I knew when it was cured...it had no odor!!


----------



## robc (Feb 17, 2010)

TalonAWD said:


> Take a look at this paper... Its the specs of the best aquarium silicone sealant I posted in post #18
> 
> http://www.geocel.co.uk/dynpdfs/14.pdf
> 
> ...


I agree 100% I am convinced and just ordered some!


----------



## redrumpslump (Feb 17, 2010)

Hey if you dont want the backdrops ill take them Rob jk LOL. No but seriously Steve I really appreciate the info.


----------



## TalonAWD (Feb 17, 2010)

I did alot of research... took me many many hours before deciding on this product by comparing the active ingrediant in different types.


----------



## robc (Feb 17, 2010)

TalonAWD said:


> I did alot of research... took me many many hours before deciding on this product by comparing the active ingrediant in different types.


Well i appreciate the time you took, this will help a LOT of people, not just T keepers  (reptiles, scorps, fish keepers).:clap::clap::clap::clap:


----------



## Skullptor (Feb 17, 2010)

robc said:


> I have never noticed this until this new and improved GE II came out, but again I never really tried to sniff it  closely LOL! IF it is giving off a slight smell would you say it is toxic, you have to basically put your nose on the backdrop to smell it...it has been curing for about 4 days. I will say I am going to switch to the one in your link, but I would hate to throw away 5 backdrops if it is not needed!





TalonAWD said:


> Correct! that is what they added. I learned this when i researched it a month ago. But the problem with that is that its made to cure rapidly as in if you needed to seal a window before it rains. Because of the rapid curing, the bond is sacrificed.





TalonAWD said:


> It sets in 15 minutes just like the GE brand. The smell is different because its a RTV silicone which means Room Temperature Vulcanizing. It has a Vinegar smell as it cures.
> Cures fully in 24 hrs and achieves maximum strength in 7 days according to the label.
> Now one difference is that the GE II retains a smell even after its cured. The New silicone 5005 will not smell after fully cured just like Aquarium silicone. Its really rubbery which I really like and unlike the GE II brand, its bond is alot stronger.
> Just like Aquarium silicone, as you use it, the smell of the acetic acid can knock you out. (Really strong vinegar smell) So do not take a wiff like I did. It stops your breath immediately lol.
> ...


When talking about silicone in a tube and not the silicone for mold making which opens up the topic further than it needs to be...

Silicones are Acetoxy cured or Neutral cure. Acetoxy puts off Acetic odors as it cures and Nuetral puts off alcohol as it cures- no odor. The difference is mostly application based and *not *toxic based. The fumes from acetoxy cure silicones should not be inhaled, but once fully cured it's completely non-toxic. Both will work for you. 
Acetoxy silicones are cheaper, faster to cure, good bond but have a smell curing. Neutral silicones are more expensive, and have much better bonding capabilities to plastic and glass and metals in most cases and cures without a smell. Neutral will not corrode porous materials like the weak acid can over time. Neutral is better on polycarbonate. Both come in ranges of modules which determine how rigid and how soft a rubber you want. 


The smell may be different in the new product but both are still an acetoxy cure so that has nothing to do with the difference in smell  (which is fine - it's not toxic as are most silicones when fully cured) so are most silicones you see in a tube acetoxy cure(this does not include platinum based silicones) are basically the same product base with different curing systems as well as additives to suit needs. The smell is supposed to go away when fully cured and will not put off any Acetic odors. Since it's condensation based (or tin based as it's sometimes called), the cure times depends on humidity and your right...you can't speed it with heat like you can with platinum based  But all are RTV's. RTV has nothing to do with smell. It just means it cures at atmospheric temperature, unlike fireplace silicones which requires additional heat or like platinum base RTV which can cure faster with the application of heat.  But... if you want a silicone without the release of Acetic acid (acetoxy) you can get a neutral based silicone that releases alcohol as it cures. Neutral based silicones have a much great adhesion, but with a slightly slower cure time, and more expensive too. It is important to look at modules when looking at silicones too. Low modules silicone is more flexible(rubbery) and high is more rigid. It's similar to the durometer scale other rubber compound companies use.

Just like with the GE silicone, I have used other silicone products that change formulas over time. If the warnings on the label include: may produce Acetic gas/odors... it's and acetoxy cure silicone. Some advertise as Acetoxy silicone buts it's basically the same thing as GE I. Silicone II is not suited for aquarium use. Bottom line 100% silicone is an all you need to know start. Then, stay away from mold/mildew additives. Names like acetoxy/aquarium grade don't mean much...or shouldn't to you. bottom line the difference in GE I and the new link is basically brand differences. GE II is a bit funky and I haven't used it much. Both will probably suit your needs but I just wanted to comment on silicone and the specs. Happy enclosure making guys!


----------



## TalonAWD (Feb 17, 2010)

Skullptor said:


> Just like with the GE silicone, I have used other silicone products that change formulas over time. If the warnings on the label include: may produce Acetic gas/odors... it's and acetoxy cure silicone. Some advertise as Acetoxy silicone buts it's basically the same thing as GE I. Silicone II is not suited for aquarium use. Bottom line 100% silicone is an all you need to know start. Then, stay away from mold/mildew additives. Names like acetoxy/aquarium grade don't mean much...or shouldn't to you. bottom line the difference in GE I and the new link is basically brand differences. GE II is a bit funky and I haven't used it much. Both will probably suit your needs but I just wanted to comment on silicone and the specs. Happy enclosure making guys!


The only problem is that the New GEII silicone states on the bottle 100% silicone and does not state that it has the mold inhibitor. That can be the hard part sometime, trying to stay away from the mold/mildew additives. So when I searched for the different silicones, I could not rely on what is displayed on the bottle. So you would need to know a bit more than just the word 100% silicone as it is deceiving in the market world.


----------



## Skullptor (Feb 17, 2010)

TalonAWD said:


> The only problem is that the New GEII silicone states on the bottle 100% silicone and does not state that it has the mold inhibitor. That can be the hard part sometime, trying to stay away from the mold/mildew additives. So when I searched for the different silicones, I could not rely on what is displayed on the bottle. So you would need to know a bit more than just the word 100% silicone as it is deceiving in the market world.


 I should have known the word 100% silicone would be polluted in the tube industry.   I'm not a big "tube" silicone person except where my house is concerned.  I know the market place is deceiving that is why I pointed out the use of the word acetroxy. I'm thinking from someone who uses a wide variety of silicone and knows what real silicone is and most of all isn't limited to using tubes. You are paying for the tube. I'm asking myself why limit yourself to a small part of the silicone industry like the tube market? I can control the stiffness, cure time, add a thixotropic additive to make it adhere to vertical surfaces, etc., coming out of a long static mixer. It's usually leftover from doing something else . I bypass the "deceiving market world" of the tube industry and go straight to the best, safe silicone for the job and don't have to worry about mildew additives or anything like that.   Tubes....pfft. 

*now I'm not saying the average person can have this setup, but you and rob make a lot of cool enclosures. If you ever wanted to make them in numbers this is the way to go...wink, wink.


----------

