# Have you peacefully protested yet?



## ThomasH (Jul 13, 2008)

http://www.pethobbyist.com/sitenews...ed-my-mice,-now-they-want-my-cows-too....html
This is serious for almost all pet owners. Remember to be nice! Flaming, disrespect and bad language will only do harm to our hobbies.
Things to bring up:
1. The economy. That remains a top issue in America. Mention all the thousands of people that will lose their jobs if this becomes a law.
2. The fact that the herp species left in the everglades won't be able to survive any where else in America. Mention that the pets left there was due to a hurricane that went through Florida. Not just pet owners discarding them due to boredrum or not being able to provide a large enough enclosure.
3. The fact that captive reptile diseases have NEVER effected wild populations in America.
If anyone wants to add more issues, post a better link or elaborate on the issues I listed. Feel free and thank you. *Remember: don't rely on other people to protect our hobby. Stand up for yourself and e-mail the officials making the bill.*


----------



## 357wheelgunner (Jul 13, 2008)

They'll pass this, just like they passed the assault weapon ban.  Those educated on the subject know how dumb laws like this are, but everyone else couldn't care less.  

Notice the political party of everyone pushing for this bill:

H.R. 6311 - Nonnative Wildlife Invasion Prevention Act
Del. Madeleine Bordallo [D-GU]
Co-Sponsors
Rep. Neil Abercrombie [D-HI]
Rep. Alcee Hastings [D-FL]
Rep. Dale Kildee [D-MI]
Rep. Ronald Kind [D-WI]
Rep. Ron Klein [D-FL]
Rep. Betty McCollum [D-MN]

edited to add:

Extreme gun types always talk about marching on Washington with their rifles....Maybe it's time for pet owners to march on Washington with their exotic pets?  Giant snakes, spiders, exotic cats, etc.....It would make good news!


----------



## xBurntBytheSunx (Jul 13, 2008)

i somehow doubt a bill like this could be passed, and even if it was how could it be enforced?


----------



## Drachenjager (Jul 13, 2008)

BoaConstrictor said:


> http://www.pethobbyist.com/sitenews...ed-my-mice,-now-they-want-my-cows-too....html
> This is serious for almost all pet owners. Remember to be nice! Flaming, disrespect and bad language will only do harm to our hobbies.
> Things to bring up:
> 1. The economy. That remains a top issue in America. Mention all the thousands of people that will lose their jobs if this becomes a law.
> ...


my protests are not really that peaceful so i try not to protest...pretty funny coming from a protestant huh lol


----------



## Drachenjager (Jul 13, 2008)

357wheelgunner said:


> They'll pass this, just like they passed the assault weapon ban.  Those educated on the subject know how dumb laws like this are, but everyone else couldn't care less.
> 
> Notice the political party of everyone pushing for this bill:
> 
> ...


D for DUMMY
isnt it funny how Democrat is so close to hypocrite? Most of the big ones seem to want rules for everyone else but not themselves. Like lets make everyone go green while I use enough energy in my house to power a small city ... Thanks Algore(pronounced like Igor)


----------



## ThomasH (Jul 14, 2008)

BUMP!
Don't give up. FIGHT IT NOW OR NEVER!


----------



## ThomasH (Jul 14, 2008)

Funny how a country with economy as a top issue could even think of making a law like this. Remember because of the governments stupidity we lose rights every day. We however can easily pummle them with facts.


----------



## ThomasH (Jul 14, 2008)

Bump!
Does anyone but me realize the seriousness of this? Act now to prevent this!


----------



## dtknow (Jul 14, 2008)

It doesn't sound bad in theory. But with government bureacracy and red tape...this will pretty much grind all pet hobbies and similar to a halt.


----------



## xBurntBytheSunx (Jul 15, 2008)

this is pretty much impossible to enforce isn't it?  i find it hard to imagine the government searching our homes for our bugs


----------



## Mister Internet (Jul 15, 2008)

Boa, I think they're just trying to prevent even more unfortunate feral species from becoming domesticated.  God knows it's a fate worse than death.  You should be thanking them, not fighting them.

*drip, drip*


----------



## Galapoheros (Jul 15, 2008)

Drachenjager said:


> D (they) want rules for everyone else but not themselves. Like lets make everyone go green while I use enough energy in my house to power a small city ... Thanks Algore(pronounced like Igor)


It IS crazy!  "I got mine!, NOOOOW I can take it away from everybody else since I have all I'll ever want...."  It's really hard to get these people on radio or TV for a debate because they want to hide from the "true" ammo the other guy is going to shoot at them.  I worked for gov for almost 15 years.  I feel like I understand how it can become a monster.  It needs to shrink but when is the last time the gov decided to do that in a way that made a big difference....  I remember a show several years ago where somebody interviewed a fed gov employee that was getting paid $60,000 to only study the flow of ketchup.  He had a ketchup flow tester, was very serious and demonstrated how it worked.  The media guy was making fun of him but he was so serious that he didn't catch on.  But, it's also entertaining to watch the wheels turn and see where it goes.


----------



## ThomasH (Jul 15, 2008)

xBurntBytheSunx said:


> this is pretty much impossible to enforce isn't it?  i find it hard to imagine the government searching our homes for our bugs


Nope. This isn't about not being able to own them its about not being available for export through the states or other countries. Look at how many animals are shipped. They could stop all that just by informing postal and parcel services. This is serious. I don't see why everyone is joking about it, they must not care about the hobby.


----------



## arachnocat (Jul 15, 2008)

This is the most rediculous thing I've heard. I hate to think of all the snakes, tarantulas, frogs, etc. that will be destroyed if this bill passes. 
Even in California where you can't have most of the exotic pets other states can, they did research and at least can justify why certain species aren't allowed (whether I agree with it or not) and don't just ban everthing non native.


----------



## ThomasH (Jul 15, 2008)

arachnocat said:


> This is the most rediculous thing I've heard. I hate to think of all the snakes, tarantulas, frogs, etc. that will be destroyed if this bill passes.
> Even in California where you can't have most of the exotic pets other states can, they did research and at least can justify why certain species aren't allowed (whether I agree with it or not) and don't just ban everthing non native.


Thanks, but I don't need the convincing. E-mail the politicians in the making of this ban.


----------



## ThomasH (Jul 15, 2008)

Bump, once again.


----------



## coffin pest (Jul 15, 2008)

Leave it to democrats to conjure up more means of wasting peoples time and money. Democrats are always taking things away for absurd reasons. Luckily, I don't think this new one will manifest.


----------



## bugmankeith (Jul 15, 2008)

What exactly do they mean as a "threat" to us? Disease, aggressiveness/venom, or being able to survive and reproduce here if they escape?

Half those animals wont populate if they escaped, only in a few areas in the U.S. like Florida or Texas do most invasive species thrive.

If they try to ban cats which are pretty close to one of the most popular owned pets (cause I didnt see dogs listed for this) I cant even imagine it being possible. 

I think stopping the importing of non-native species to pet stores or making them available to sell could happen, but taking away ones already here will never happen. 

What animal do you buy at a pet store usually that IS native to your area, basically none.


----------



## dtknow (Jul 15, 2008)

bugmankeith said:


> What exactly do they mean as a "threat" to us? Disease, aggressiveness/venom, or being able to survive and reproduce here if they escape?
> 
> Half those animals wont populate if they escaped, only in a few areas in the U.S. like Florida or Texas do most invasive species thrive.
> 
> ...


This is not what this regulation is about.

They plan on dividing species between good and bad lists. 
Problem. Do you think the USFWS/USDA have the time and funding to do this in a timely and effective manner? Not after all the funding cuts! Actually, even if they did have the funding...I am still a bit worried what they would do with this law....


----------



## crpy (Jul 16, 2008)

dtknow said:


> Problem. Do you think the USFWS/USDA have the time and funding to do this in a timely and effective manner? Not after all the funding cuts! Actually, even if they did have the funding...I am still a bit worried what they would do with this law....


Right, it will be a SNAFU as usual.


----------



## GartenSpinnen (Jul 16, 2008)

Do people honestly think protesting or signing petitions will do anything? I mean, yea, *supposedly* according to what this country is based on it "should" but when exactly does that happen? If its in the 
"""good nature"""" 
of politicians or governments then it will be passed either way. Just do it anyways. As long as enough people do not comply they will get tired of enforcing it.
Cheers


----------



## Elytra and Antenna (Jul 16, 2008)

In 1996 a lot of good people put effort into fighting a new bill that would allow the Ag department to outlaw exotic mantids, tarantulas and various inverts that have no effect on agriculture by creating a new classification called "secondary plant pests" -anything that could eat a pollinator or pest predators which is anything. They just waited and snuck it in a few years later in 2000 with some other crap when nobody was looking and Clinton signed it.


----------



## barabootom (Jul 16, 2008)

If this passes the government would have no problem enforcing it.  They would attach huge financial penalties and start picking on obvious targets to scare everyone else away form taking the risk.  What would happen if you were afraid to make a trade by email?  Or couldn't go to swaps?  Or couldn't tell anyone you were keeping invertebrates?  This bill is the first step in...you can only have the pet the government picks for you.  We had a bad storm a month ago and there was lots of flooding and road damage.  A friend drove past a road closed sign to visit and was stopped by the police.  They gave him a $160 fine for not obeying the road closed sign.  I didn't even know they could do that, but it turns out they can in Wisconsin.  They usually don't but they can.  There are lots of laws on the books that aren't enforced, but watch out.  They'll pass a bill like this and slowly enforce it and expand it until they can shrink the hobby to the point of eliminating it with only a whimper.  And the majority of people will think its great.  You can fight these kinds of bills now or roll-over later.


----------



## barabootom (Jul 16, 2008)

Here's the email I sent.  Did you send your's yet?

You recently co-sponsored HR 6311.  This bill is very poorly written and opens the door to flawed governmental regulation. It is far too broad in it's scope.  I'm ashamed that someone from Wisconsin would think this bill has merit in it's current form.  All the greatest foreign invasive threats (mostly insects and plant diseases) were introduced in shipping containers and large scale imports that were already supposedly inspected by US officials.  Please get on with something more important than to co-sponsor bills like this that cause regulation nightmares and ultimately waste money. My opinion, take your name off as co-sponsor.  Thank you.


----------



## Mister Internet (Jul 16, 2008)

Everyone here has had at least a high school level civics course, right?

This bill is IN COMMITTEE... your input, unless your senator/reps happen to be on the committee reviewing the bill, means dinkus at this point.  This bill is MILES away from even seeing the light of day on the floor of the House. The vast majority of bills that are "introduced" die in committee, and aren't really worth our time or effort to fight, as they are moot. Your congressmen are certainly not going to waste time considering their opinion on a bill that isn't out of committee yet.

Legislators get bored, or they have interns or assistants who come up with funny ideas for new laws, so they have to fill their free time with something. Committees are there to kill the stupid ones before they waste the House's time voting... this one will die in committee, as it should.


----------



## ThomasH (Jul 16, 2008)

Mister Internet said:


> Everyone here has had at least a high school level civics course, right?
> 
> This bill is IN COMMITTEE... your input, unless your senator/reps happen to be on the committee reviewing the bill, means dinkus at this point.  This bill is MILES away from even seeing the light of day on the floor of the House. The vast majority of bills that are "introduced" die in committee, and aren't really worth our time or effort to fight, as they are moot. Your congressmen are certainly not going to waste time considering their opinion on a bill that isn't out of committee yet.
> 
> Legislators get bored, or they have interns or assistants who come up with funny ideas for new laws, so they have to fill their free time with something. Committees are there to kill the stupid ones before they waste the House's time voting... this one will die in committee, as it should.


I hope you're right but this bill is just too scary for me not to take seriously. With all the fear mongering of exotics there is a huge chance that they'll see the opportunity to regulate.
TBH


----------



## crpy (Jul 16, 2008)

Mister Internet said:


> Everyone here has had at least a high school level civics course, right?
> 
> This bill is IN COMMITTEE... your input, unless your senator/reps happen to be on the committee reviewing the bill, means dinkus at this point.  This bill is MILES away from even seeing the light of day on the floor of the House. The vast majority of bills that are "introduced" die in committee, and aren't really worth our time or effort to fight, as they are moot. Your congressmen are certainly not going to waste time considering their opinion on a bill that isn't out of committee yet.
> 
> Legislators get bored, or they have interns or assistants who come up with funny ideas for new laws, so they have to fill their free time with something. Committees are there to kill the stupid ones before they waste the House's time voting... this one will die in committee, as it should.


This is true, However, it is good to stay observant of these things and have conversations about them, no matter how stupid these bills are, that may be a good thing. If we stay in sleepy time mode things come in under the radar. Especially the way politics is today, imo


----------



## Scott C. (Jul 16, 2008)

> ....It needs to shrink but when is the last time the *gov decided *to do that in a way that made a big difference....


There's the problem right there.


----------



## ThomasH (Jul 16, 2008)

I don't see America being a free country without a *serious* civil war in the next century or two. We lose a right everyday, most of which we don't even realize we've lost because the government chose not to inform us.


----------



## GartenSpinnen (Jul 16, 2008)

BoaConstrictor said:


> I don't see America being a free country without a *serious* civil war in the next century or two. We lose a right everyday, most of which we don't even realize we've lost because the government chose not to inform us.


Agreed to some point. Civil war? No. Drastic actions to put the government in its place? Yes. I doubt that will ever happen though. And our country is so screwed up anymore that the grand majority believe everything is gravy and worry little until they cant afford there Gucci bag, or latte at Starbucks.... mmm.... latte...

Ignorance is bliss, thankfully im full of it...  

Cheers


----------



## Mister Internet (Jul 16, 2008)

BoaConstrictor said:


> I hope you're right but this bill is just too scary for me not to take seriously. With all the fear mongering of exotics there is a huge chance that they'll see the opportunity to regulate.
> TBH





crpy said:


> This is true, However, it is good to stay observant of these things and have conversations about them, no matter how stupid these bills are, that may be a good thing. If we stay in sleepy time mode things come in under the radar. Especially the way politics is today, imo


I know I know... I'm certinaly a fan of being aware of what's going on.  I just hate it that every 19 and younger thinks that "social action" involves starting a stupid online petition that has the teeth of an amoeba and the legal traction of eugenics.  There once was a time when people had to actually DO and THINK... the Internet has made this new generation really stupid and lazy when it comes to "making a difference".  To make matters worse, people my age are starting to adopt this mindset as well, rather than eradication through education of our younger protoges.

Simply put, I was merely tring to help people to see that not everything that sound bad, looks bad, or has an online petition associated with it is necessarily worth two squirts.  It helps to think critically about where best to apply our time and energies... signing an online petition or sending a congressman an email he's never going to read about a bill that's still in committee are two things that are a 12 on a scale of 1 to Worthless.

Now, if this thing manages to make it to the floor of the House, or the language gets absorbed into another, more urgent bill, then we've got something to worry about.

Sorry, I will let people go back to having their delusions of "making a difference" if it makes everyone feel better.  By the way, it's "revolution", not "civil war".


----------



## Tleilaxu (Jul 16, 2008)

Wow is this even worth fighting? Can we even do anything? Anyways I hope this fails. utterly.


----------



## ThomasH (Jul 16, 2008)

Mister Internet said:


> I know I know... I'm certinaly a fan of being aware of what's going on.  I just hate it that every 19 and younger thinks that "social action" involves starting a stupid online petition that has the teeth of an amoeba and the legal traction of eugenics.  There once was a time when people had to actually DO and THINK... the Internet has made this new generation really stupid and lazy when it comes to "making a difference".  To make matters worse, people my age are starting to adopt this mindset as well, rather than eradication through education of our younger protoges.
> 
> Simply put, I was merely tring to help people to see that not everything that sound bad, looks bad, or has an online petition associated with it is necessarily worth two squirts.  It helps to think critically about where best to apply our time and energies... signing an online petition or sending a congressman an email he's never going to read about a bill that's still in committee are two things that are a 12 on a scale of 1 to Worthless.
> 
> ...


What? E-mailing someone is wrothless? BS! They have assistants that spend all day reading their e-mails and letters. If someone opposed them they would challenge it. I agree the petitions are worthless though. It would only be effective if you got over half of America to sign it. That is "if" there was a way to prove who really signed it over the internet. Alright buddy, how are you making a difference? You are just going to sit and do nothing? When we have "something to worry about" what's going to be your plan of action? You know what? All you ever do is go around spreading the hate and telling everyone that they're wrong, never adding any input of what to do. Its all a lot easier to say over the internet, I seriously doubt you would say any of that to my face. Some adults on the internet treat kids like crap thinking you are so much better, like age gave you all "the magical knowledge power over every aspect faced today in the world" but every time somone under 18 takes the same attitude they are called arrogant.
TBH


----------



## barabootom (Jul 16, 2008)

Mister Internet said:


> I know I know... I'm certinaly a fan of being aware of what's going on.  I just hate it that every 19 and younger thinks that "social action" involves starting a stupid online petition that has the teeth of an amoeba and the legal traction of eugenics.  There once was a time when people had to actually DO and THINK... the Internet has made this new generation really stupid and lazy when it comes to "making a difference".  To make matters worse, people my age are starting to adopt this mindset as well, rather than eradication through education of our younger protoges.
> 
> Simply put, I was merely tring to help people to see that not everything that sound bad, looks bad, or has an online petition associated with it is necessarily worth two squirts.  It helps to think critically about where best to apply our time and energies... signing an online petition or sending a congressman an email he's never going to read about a bill that's still in committee are two things that are a 12 on a scale of 1 to Worthless.
> 
> ...


I disagree with you completely.  I personally don't see any value to an on-line petetion, but emailing your congressman does have an impact.  I've done it at least a dozen times and have always received a response.  At least from the Wisconsin reps.  Senator Feingold even wrote a long personal letter on my behalf to the US Embassy in Mexico City when I was trying to get my rich brother-in-law attorney a visa to come and visit.  I think, in the very least, the messages get tallied. 100 emails against, go ahead, nobody cares.  10,000 emails against, I'd better back off cause I'm pissing off my constituants.  I can almost guarantee I'll get a response from the Wisconsin rep who co-sponsored the bill.  I'll post it when I do.  It may be a email form letter but my emailing will get a response.  And it only took me 3 minutes.  I'm not going to sit back and empower these crazy congresspeople by convincing myself there is nothing I can do.  And even if it is only in commitee, who cares.  Send a strong message now and it won't reappear next month with a new name.


----------



## Scott C. (Jul 16, 2008)

Mister Internet said:


> ....Sorry, I will let people go back to having their delusions of "making a difference" if it makes everyone feel better.


I'd bet you'd do better with the "educate" thing, than false apologies.... Not that it's your job, or anything.



BoaConstrictor said:


> ..... Some adults on the internet treat kids like crap thinking you are so much better, like age gave you all "the magical knowledge power over every aspect faced today in the world" but every time somone under 18 takes the same attitude they are called arrogant.
> TBH


Perhaps it is because so many *sound* arrogant due either arrogance, a lack of communication skills, or just outright lack of courtesy..... Just a thought.


----------



## Mister Internet (Jul 16, 2008)

BoaConstrictor said:


> What? E-mailing someone is wrothless? BS! They have assistants that spend all day reading their e-mails and letters. If someone opposed them they would challenge it.


I said, SPECIFICALLY, an email "about a bill that's still in committee".  Meaning NON-ACTIONABLE.  I did not say, as a blanket statement, that emailing congressmen is worthless.  Wait until there's something to vote on, that was my only point.



BoaConstrictor said:


> I agree the petitions are worthless though. It would only be effective if you got over half of America to sign it. That is "if" there was a way to prove who really signed it over the internet.


Well, most of them aren't national in scope... heck, I've done door to door petitioning for local issues that would have carried with as little as 150 votes either way back home growing up.  Sometimes, it's not about the numbers.  But yes, generally, online petitions are impossible validate for residence and constituency reasons, and as such aren't really worth much more than the paper they are printed on.



BoaConstrictor said:


> Alright buddy, how are you making a difference? You are just going to sit and do nothing? When we have "something to worry about" what's going to be your plan of action?


When we have something to worry about, I'll write, call, and email my congressmen like everyone else.

Of course, my idea of what really demands my effort in "making a difference" centers around people far more than animals anyway... I spend my energy and volunteer time helping people first, and animals secondarily. I won't bore you with the details of my trip to New Orleans last summer with a group of local high school kids for a week.  I guess you don't need to hear about assisting in a $40,000 fundraising effort for said community youth organization.  There was that little stint in downtown Chicago this past April with "Rebuild Chicago" where I helped remodel a bathroom for a wonderful old woman who couldn't afford it. 

Of course, if you're talking about animals, specifically, I purchase a fishing license every year to contribute to IL conservation.  We are heavy supporters of our local Arboretum to the tune of $250 a year which partly supports local wildlife. Not sure if that's the kind of thing you meant.

I could bore you with a lot of stories like this, but I absolutely hate talking about myself... I only give out specifics when impertinence demands it.



BoaConstrictor said:


> You know what? All you ever do is go around spreading the hate and telling everyone that they're wrong, never adding any input of what to do. Its all a lot easier to say over the internet, I seriously doubt you would say any of that to my face.


You've been here for what, 5 months?  Ask ANYONE who's been here a year or longer, and see if they share your opinion.  Also, ask yourself if you might often times bring this reaction because of the brash, ill-informed way you seem to prefer to share your opinions.  I don't "spread hate" ... heh, talk to the people on here who I have most strongly disagreed with over the years, and they will tell you that I have never once told them anything remotely close to "I hate you".  I'm not about hate, I'm about rational, clear thinking, and HONESTY.  And I would absolutely say it to your face... I work with borderline "at risk" high schoolers, and tell them the TRUTH to their face about their poor choices all the time.  I'm absolutely unfazed by the prospect of telling someone the truth.



BoaConstrictor said:


> Some adults on the internet treat kids like crap thinking you are so much better, like age gave you all "the magical knowledge power over every aspect faced today in the world" but every time somone under 18 takes the same attitude they are called arrogant.
> TBH


I have more life experience than you, absolutely.  I'm not saying I'm SMARTER than you... you could have an IQ of 180 for all I know and might beat me in chess blindfolded.  But, I do know far, FAR more about how the world works than you.  I know it sucks when someone has to tell you have an incorrect perspective on the world, but sometimes its necessary.  I'm not always right... you can find dozens of instances on AB where I've gracefully apologized or retracted statements made in error.

You know what, I just took the liberty as an Admin of checking your age... I need to apologize to you and the AB readers by saying that I've been engaging you over your head.  I didn't realize how tender your years are.  I am sorry if I've given you the impression that I don't want you here, or that your input isn't welcomed.  Just be gracious when someone is trying to show you correct information about how the world works... it's hard to see at your age, but it isn't incomprehensible by any stretch.


----------



## ThomasH (Jul 16, 2008)

Mister Internet said:


> I said, SPECIFICALLY, an email "about a bill that's still in committee".  Meaning NON-ACTIONABLE.  I did not say, as a blanket statement, that emailing congressmen is worthless.  Wait until there's something to vote on, that was my only point.


Does it matter if its in committee? Not much to me, not _as_ high urgency but we still can e-mail to get them to cut off their sponsorship of the bill. I don't see where that's a bad or worthless thing.


----------



## ThomasH (Jul 16, 2008)

Mister Internet said:


> You've been here for what, 5 months?  Ask ANYONE who's been here a year or longer, and see if they share your opinion.  Also, ask yourself if you might often times bring this reaction because of the brash, ill-informed way you seem to prefer to share your opinions.  I don't "spread hate" ... heh, talk to the people on here who I have most strongly disagreed with over the years, and they will tell you that I have never once told them anything remotely close to "I hate you".  I'm not about hate, I'm about rational, clear thinking, and HONESTY.  And I would absolutely say it to your face... I work with borderline "at risk" high schoolers, and tell them the TRUTH to their face about their poor choices all the time.  I'm absolutely unfazed by the prospect of telling someone the truth.


I'm not talking about flat out saying "I hate you." I'm talking about all the negativity you've spread over the years. I don't recall you ever being positive about anything.


----------



## ThomasH (Jul 16, 2008)

Mister Internet said:


> I have more life experience than you, absolutely.  I'm not saying I'm SMARTER than you... you could have an IQ of 180 for all I know and might beat me in chess blindfolded.  But, I do know far, FAR more about how the world works than you.  I know it sucks when someone has to tell you have an incorrect perspective on the world, but sometimes its necessary.  I'm not always right... you can find dozens of instances on AB where I've gracefully apologized or retracted statements made in error.
> 
> You know what, I just took the liberty as an Admin of checking your age... I need to apologize to you and the AB readers by saying that I've been engaging you over your head.  I didn't realize how tender your years are.  I am sorry if I've given you the impression that I don't want you here, or that your input isn't welcomed.  Just be gracious when someone is trying to show you correct information about how the world works... it's hard to see at your age, but it isn't incomprehensible by any stretch.


Whatever. That's just another cheap shot some adults use over minors. I know how the world works just fine, thank you.
TBH


----------



## Mister Internet (Jul 16, 2008)

barabootom said:


> I disagree with you completely.
> 
> <snip>
> 
> And even if it is only in commitee, who cares.  Send a strong message now and it won't reappear next month with a new name.


Look man, I'm on your side here...   The problem inherent in trying to put this stuff on congresspersons' radar before it's on the floor is that the bill name, number, or sponsors may have changed by the time the language actually makes it to the floor.  If H.R. 6311 dies in committee, then my congressman's note to "vote against H.R. 6311" will be useless... the sponsors could sneak it as a referendum into another bill that he might have been planning on supporting.  That's all I'm saying... yes, keep our ears perked.  But until there's actually a bill to vote on, it would be a shame if we all got riled and contacted them referencing what is quite likely not the final form of the legislation.  Because then, when it does come up in a different form, with different sponsors, or in a different bill altogether, no one will care.

Anyhoo, I'm doing more harm than good trying to make an inconsequential point...


----------



## Mushroom Spore (Jul 16, 2008)

I love you, Mr. I.  



BoaConstrictor said:


> Whatever. That's just another cheap shot some adults use over minors. I know how the world works just fine, thank you.


I thought that when I was a minor too, and even got mad when people told me I was wrong. And as it turns out? I WAS wrong. I was just too proud to admit it, like a lot of minors are.

I'm glad now that people challenged me back then, instead of coddling me and patting my head and telling me I was right about everything and shouldn't listen to anyone that said otherwise. The latter is just about the worst thing you can do to a person.


----------



## ThomasH (Jul 16, 2008)

Mushroom Spore said:


> I love you, Mr. I.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And yet another cheap shot. Forget I'm 13 alright?


----------



## Mister Internet (Jul 16, 2008)

BoaConstrictor said:


> Does it matter if its in committee? Not much to me, not _as_ high urgency but we still can e-mail to get them to cut off their sponsorship of the bill. I don't see where that's a bad or worthless thing.


Go right ahead... but save some energy for when the bill REALLY needs to be fought.  IF you've got the energy and free time for both, more power to you. I, and most other voting-age adults, do not.



BoaConstrictor said:


> I'm not talking about flat out saying "I hate you." I'm talking about all the negativity you've spread over the years. I don't recall you ever being positive about anything.


"Over the years"??  LOL!

Look, I guarantee you haven't read even a tenth of my posts on this board, so I will excuse your hyperbole as the frustrated rant that it is.  I'll say again: if you can find me one long-term member in good standing (one that isn't banned, heavily infractioned, or otherwise a _persona non grata_) that actually shares your opinion that I do nothing but spread negativity, I'll be shocked.  There's a huge difference between "negativity" and "people not liking to hear the truth".



BoaConstrictor said:


> Whatever. That's just another cheap shot some adults use over minors. I know how the world works just fine, thank you.
> TBH


Heh... alright dude.   I will take note that my mortgage, wife, baby, car payments, bachelor's degree, and extensive resume don't mean I have a more informed perspective on how the world works.


----------



## barabootom (Jul 16, 2008)

Mister Internet said:


> .... until there's actually a bill to vote on, it would be a shame if we all got riled and contacted them referencing what is quite likely not the final form of the legislation.  Because then, when it does come up in a different form, with different sponsors, or in a different bill altogether, no one will care....


I won't disagree with you on your point because what you say is partly valid and certainly has a lot of truth behind it.  Our difference in opinion is when to act.  The original link didn't say to write every congressperson  (unless I missed something).  It listed the co-sponsors of the bill.  Unless they have a personal agenda and don't care what the public says, they do pay attention.  I would hope the bill would die in committee.  Most bills do.  But it will reappear and reappear until either the sponsors give up or it gets more support and goes forward in some form.  If those sponsors get a lot of negative opinions they themselves will shape it into something more pet owner friendly.  My opinion is...let the co-sponsors get some heat early on.  I'm not saying make signs and march.  A simple email takes a minute or two.  One more thing...I applaud you on all the terrific things you've done and are doing to help people.  I wish more people would take your example.  You should be damn proud.


----------



## Mushroom Spore (Jul 16, 2008)

BoaConstrictor said:


> And yet another cheap shot. Forget I'm 13 alright?


1) I had no idea what your age was, dude. I'm not an admin, and also not psychic. Calm down. Breathe.

2) ...what exactly was a cheap shot about my post? Are you just classifying anything you don't want to hear as a cheap shot? Because that's kinda self-sabotaging your insistence that you know how the world works, just fyi.

This isn't going anywhere. Meh. I'm out.


----------



## ThomasH (Jul 16, 2008)

Mushroom Spore said:


> 1) I had no idea what your age was, dude. I'm not an admin, and also not psychic. Calm down. Breathe.
> 
> 2) ...what exactly was a cheap shot about my post? Are you just classifying anything you don't want to hear as a cheap shot? Because that's kinda self-sabotaging your insistence that you know how the world works, just fyi.
> 
> This isn't going anywhere. Meh. I'm out.


Well you're either not good at playing stupid or extremely dumb. It said so on my profile and Mr. I already brought it up on this thread. Since you're post was about "when I was your age" I'm guessing you knew my age. The cheap shot was embracing me being a teen.

Well excuse me for trying to inform everyone that there was a bill that could threaten the hobby.
I rest my case.
TBH


----------



## Mister Internet (Jul 16, 2008)

barabootom said:


> I won't disagree with you on your point because what you say is partly valid and certainly has a lot of truth behind it.  Our difference in opinion is when to act.  The original link didn't say to write every congressperson  (unless I missed something).  It listed the co-sponsors of the bill.  Unless they have a personal agenda and don't care what the public says, they do pay attention.  I would hope the bill would die in committee.  Most bills do.  But it will reappear and reappear until either the sponsors give up or it gets more support and goes forward in some form.  If those sponsors get a lot of negative opinions they themselves will shape it into something more pet owner friendly.  My opinion is...let the co-sponsors get some heat early on.  I'm not saying make signs and march.  A simple email takes a minute or two.  One more thing...I applaud you on all the terrific things you've done and are doing to help people.  I wish more people would take your example.  You should be damn proud.


You know what, it would probably serve me well to come round to your way of thinking... maybe some far off day when I have more freely available time and energy, I can.   Until then, I think I'm glad we have people like you that feel so strongly.  I'll join you when the bill hits the floor, or buy you a beer if we ever meet if it dies in committee.  Deal?


----------



## Mister Internet (Jul 16, 2008)

BoaConstrictor said:


> *Well you're either not good at playing stupid or extremely dumb.* It said so on my profile and Mr. I already brought it up on this thread. Since you're post was about "when I was your age" I'm guessing you knew my age. The cheap shot was embracing me being a teen.
> 
> Well excuse me for trying to inform everyone that there was a bill that could threaten the hobby.
> I rest my case.
> TBH


Alright, thread closed and warning given (reason in bold above).  Please take note Boa, you were the ONLY person in the thread to resort to a personal attack.  This is not how we do things here.

You need to SERIOUSLY chill out... if you ever expect anyone to see past your age, you need to stop acting like this.  We love our heated debates here, but personal attacks of any kind are absolutely not tolerated.


----------

