# Avic Avic is puking white stuff



## joebob213 (Oct 14, 2006)

What could be wrong?  She seems to be very healthy though I've only had her for 3 days.  She's plump, active, and colorful so I assumed she's healthy.  This morning I noticed some white stuff on the side of her cage and wondered what it was.  About 5 minutes ago I was watching her and noticed her rubbing her face on the side of the cage.  I went up closer and noticed that she was wiping some white stuff off her mouth.  I did a search here and came up with either nematodes or yeast infection.  Neither is a good thing I'm assuming.  How do I find out what's wrong?  Here's some pics of the discharge:


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## ShadowSpectrum (Oct 14, 2006)

_Avicularia avicularia_ are known for spraying their feces all over the sides of their enclosure, so I'm guessing that's what it is. If that's the case, nothing to worry about.

Also, _Avicularia spp._ are arboreal (tree dwelling), so you should set your spider up in a vertical enclosure with room to climb and build a web retreat. Look in the Enclosure/Terrarium Pictures thread for examples of arboreal housing.


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## Mushroom Spore (Oct 14, 2006)

ShadowSpectrum said:


> _Avicularia avicularia_ are known for spraying their feces all over the sides of their enclosure


Not with their mouths, they don't. I'm calling nematode infection on this one.


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## Snipes (Oct 14, 2006)

It doesnt _necessarily_ mean nemotodes. I was sure that one of my ts had nemotodes because all over its mouth was white stuff. It turned out to be feces. I was a nose hair away from putting him in the freezer too. But to be safe, separate this avic as far away as possible! Did you get her from a breeder or a pet shop? If it was from a pet shop, nemotodes would be more likely. Has it eaten? Nemotode infected ts cant eat. Can you get better pics, preferable the chelicerata?


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## ShadowSpectrum (Oct 14, 2006)

How did your _A. avicularia_ wipe it's mouth? Did it's fangs move? A certain bacteria that lives with the nematodes eats away at the spider's tissue, paralyzing the fangs.

Also, some other symptoms typical of a nematode infection are restlessness (but he's only had the spider for three days, it may not be settled in yet anyways), spinning unusual amounts of web, spending alot of time around it's water dish, unusual odor coming from it's enclosure, and a good indicator that the spider has nematodes is if it keeps it's pedipalps underneath it's chelicerae at all times. Is your spider exhibiting any of these symptoms? If not, my guess is still that it crapped on the enclosure's wall, as _A. avicularia_ will happily do  .


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## joebob213 (Oct 14, 2006)

It's not feces, I saw her do it with her mouth.  There is a total of 3 spots on the cage now.  From what I read about nematodes there should be tiny moving objects but there is none of that.  I bought it from a pet store but one who has a lady that LOVES tarantulas and she raised this one from a baby so I don't think there was any neglect issues.


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## Kriegan (Oct 14, 2006)

Hmm doesn't sound right, I'd put the T into an ICU for observation and evaluation just in case.


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## joebob213 (Oct 19, 2006)

Well, since the first post in this thread there has been no white discharge...  until today...  A LOT came out!!!  There's also some worm looking things on/in her water dish.  Are Nematodes big enough to see with the naked eye?  These things are between 1/8" and 1/4 long and white.  My cricket colony is doing fine so I don't think anything came from them.  Is it possible I bought some infected peat moss?  I really don't want to lose another spider!!!  I had an Avic die just  a few days before I got this one!  How contagious is this stuff???  This spider was housed RIGHT next to my b. Smithi and if anything happens to her I don't know what I'd do.  She doesn't climb on the glass so it's hard to say if she's puking white of not.  :wall:  HELP!


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## james41777 (Oct 19, 2006)

Hello,
I had the same case.. with the pink toe long ago
and I believe it's just fine;
What happend with mine is, it was moving its fangs, with white stuff coming out.
nothing went wrong,I believe it's normal
It seemed to be as if it's cleaning the fangs?


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## Maggot Man (Oct 23, 2006)

My A. avic started this same behavior today. It ate less than a week ago, but today when I woke up I found it rubbing its mouth on the side of the cage, with the same white discharge. I'm concerned because it was rubbing hairs off from its mouth in small clumps, and flipped out in a big way when I opened the cage for a closer look. 

edit: got the T from Botar, substrate from a sterilized bag of vermiculite, and crickerts from petco are the only food I've used. I've had this T for about 5 months now.


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## =ACID RAIN= (Oct 23, 2006)

joebob213 said:


> Well, since the first post in this thread there has been no white discharge...  until today...  A LOT came out!!!  There's also some worm looking things on/in her water dish.  Are Nematodes big enough to see with the naked eye?  These things are between 1/8" and 1/4 long and white.  My cricket colony is doing fine so I don't think anything came from them.  Is it possible I bought some infected peat moss?  I really don't want to lose another spider!!!  I had an Avic die just  a few days before I got this one!  How contagious is this stuff???  This spider was housed RIGHT next to my b. Smithi and if anything happens to her I don't know what I'd do.  She doesn't climb on the glass so it's hard to say if she's puking white of not.  :wall:  HELP!


I'm no expert on arachnid parasites, however it sounds like you are describing nematodes on the water dish.  Nematodes are just "round worms" and typically are white and associated with either water or soil/feces at some stage of their lifecycle.  Size varies tremendously, so you may or may not see individual worms depending on species.  

I would wait for someone with more experience on _spider parasites_ before freezing this one (if you choose to), but if you see small white worms at the water dish, you are most likely looking at nematodes.

EDIT:  Let me add that most parasites find some way of spreading through evolved behavior on the host or the parasite itself.  In this case, it sounds like a certain type of nematode causes spiders to rub this discharge off and onto another surface, either for consumption by some other animal (leaves) or by contact spreading (perches etc).  

If this turns out to be worms, then after this spider discard all materials in the container (large wood and rocks can be boiled however) and clean the tank itself with clorox.  Eggs and cysts of roundworms can be very resilient.

Also bear in mind that parasitic species of nemotodes can infest an array of insects, depending on what they prefer.  Buying insects from a pet store is no different than buying fish - any of them can have parasites and spread them to others.  There are several species than infect crickets, so raising your own is probably the safest bet for feeding your T.


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## joebob213 (Oct 25, 2006)

I think I figured out the problem.  I bought peat moss from Ace Hardware and I think it was bad.  Don't know what the worm looking things were yet but I emptied out the cage, sterilized it with clorox, put new peat moss in, and so far so good.  The bag of peat moss I got the first time just didn't look right.  It was light in color compared to the stuff I used in my smithi cage and venus fly trap pots and it had a strong musty smell to it.  THe new bag I got was dark, smooth, and low odor.  It's been a week and so far there's been no discharge or worm looking thingies.  I haven't held her yet, towards the end of the last little episode she was un-handlable (is that a word?)  She ran and jumped all over me and was very diffucult to handle.  I'll give it another week and see what happens.  The first few days I had her she was very friendly and easy to handle.


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## bkirchner81 (Oct 26, 2006)

whew- this thread had me worried!

I hope you have completely solved your problem- that was no fun.

:clap:


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## Alice (Oct 26, 2006)

so any news yet? i'm really curious what happens, as i also get frantic about my ts easily :8o


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## Mushroom Spore (Oct 26, 2006)

joebob213 said:


> The first few days I had her she was very friendly and easy to handle.


Just wanted to correct this misinterpretation here, because it's human nature to anthropomorphize these creatures, except we tend to get it all wrong.  Spiders are not friendly. The only difference between a docile G. rosea and a T. blondi that will rip you a new one is that the rosie (usually) just can't be arsed to drive a human off.

If you'd just gotten the T, the reason it seemed "friendly" was because it was stressed and scared in an unfamiliar environment, and at that point their tiny little brains just shut off. Granted, Avics are known to be pretty tolerant and non-bitey, but as I understand it the movement and ESPECIALLY the jumping is actually their normal healthy behavior. I've always heard them described as skittish and easily spooked, and being arboreals it's in their nature to jump.

Reactions: Like 1


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## FOOTBALL FAN (Oct 26, 2006)

I dont know about the white stuff although I have heard about this before and it turned out it was feaces but your T should be in a upright tank with room to climb she is an aboreal spider and mine spends no time at all on the floor


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## Stylopidae (Oct 26, 2006)

Maggot Man said:


> edit: got the T from Botar, substrate from a sterilized bag of vermiculite, and crickerts from petco are the only food I've used. I've had this T for about 5 months now.


It's the crickets. I've had A LOT of problems recently involving crickets and nematodes. If you'd like, get some Q tips and swab the Q tip  in the white stuff from the T. I'm doing experiments with nematodes, but I think my culture died out.

Either way, I'll observe it under high magnification. I should be able to see something that way. If you're interested, PM me and I'll give you shipping instructions for the Q tip.

Nematodes ARE contagious. Isolate the T and wash your hands like you have OCD.


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## Maggot Man (Nov 5, 2006)

I just thought I'd update. My avic stopped spewing the mysterious white liquid, and appears to be back to normal. I haven't spotted it cleaning yet, but it has been wandering around its enclosure a LOT lately, so I think I am going to try feeding tomorrow and see what happens. 

I have both my Ts on fast/feast type diets with larger meals every month or so rather than small meals every week, and I suspect that perhaps this was a case of overfeeding? 5 crickets a month isn't a lot, but all at once could have caused this issue on a smaller T perhaps?

Also, thanks for the offer Evil Cheshire- if I run into this again I'll be sure to contact you.


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## Midwest Art (Nov 5, 2006)

*White Stuff*

Could be a nematode infection.  Not a good sign if it also doesn't eat and loses weight.

Good Luck


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## BooyaTarantula (Mar 13, 2007)

What I don't understand in all this is the term "freezing" so if someone could tell me what that refers to then that'd be swell (call me a noob).


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## WyvernsLair (Mar 13, 2007)

BooyaTarantula said:


> What I don't understand in all this is the term "freezing" so if someone could tell me what that refers to then that'd be swell (call me a noob).


It means putting the tarantula into a freezer to kill it.


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## 138 (Mar 14, 2007)

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=87321


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## Becky (Mar 15, 2007)

BooyaTarantula said:


> What I don't understand in all this is the term "freezing" so if someone could tell me what that refers to then that'd be swell (call me a noob).


Freezing is the only (well apart from gas (CO2) but we dont all have access 2 that!) humane way of euthanising your T if it has problems... Their bodies just slow right down and they die..


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## Varden (Mar 15, 2007)

I have a feeling the white stuff was probably poop and the "worms" were fruit fly or fungus fly maggots, which were attracted to either dead spider food remains or bad substrate.  You never did answer, at least not that I saw, whether or not your spider would move it's fangs and eat.  If it were nematodes, I don't believe it could do either one.  They do get poop in their fangs, they do drizzle liquid from their mouthparts, especially when cleaning themselves.  You could have happened by when your T was cleaning herself.  The white on the side of her enclosure, could well have been poop shot from the ol' poop cannon in typical Avicularia style.

This doesn't mean your T doesn't have nematodes.  But nematodes doesn't clear up and go away.


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