# Suprise! baby pile



## Perentie (Aug 31, 2013)

So I was showing a friend my V. carolinianus, and I saw a pile of little slightly colored babies on her back. They cant be more than a week old. Probably much less. So my question is how should I go about caring for them? Will they need a water bowl? My adult had one before, but after I changed her enclosure she hasn't. Should I give her one? or would I have to worry about the babies drowning?


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## ShredderEmp (Aug 31, 2013)

Taking care of 1st instars is easy. First you do nothing. Then even more nothing. Stop doing nothing when they come off the mom's back, and keep them seperate in little vials with a higher humidity than an a dult woud have.


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## VictorHernandez (Sep 1, 2013)

^^+1
yep. I a liddo more than a week and the babies completely came off the mommy scorp(C. vittatus) and then I removed her from the liddo container I had her in and left the babies in so I could feed them. Then I'm removing them and putting them in separate containers with higher humidity cause they cannibalize when moltinv. Good luck


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## Perentie (Sep 1, 2013)

Ok thanks. I think I'll just get some deli cups when they drop off. So does the mom need a water bowl? What about the babies?


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## Perentie (Sep 2, 2013)

anyone? I really need advice, I don't want to lose the babies


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## KDiiX (Sep 2, 2013)

Water bowls in general aren't needed no matter which species! But especially with desert species. Just keep a small corner little bit moist that the babys have no problem with molting. If the mother want to drink she will drink from the moist substrate or water drops at the walls of the enclosure.


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## Smokehound714 (Sep 3, 2013)

That's not true at all. Scorpions should always have access to fresh clean water at all times, regardless of the species. 

  an extremely shallow dish with pebbles that break the water's surface scattered around makes a great water source for babies.  they wont drown.

 man the adults are tiny enough, but those babies are absurdly small lol


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## Perentie (Sep 3, 2013)

Smokehound714 said:


> That's not true at all. Scorpions should always have access to fresh clean water at all times, regardless of the species.
> 
> an extremely shallow dish with pebbles that break the water's surface scattered around makes a great water source for babies.  they wont drown.
> 
> man the adults are tiny enough, but those babies are absurdly small lol


 Thanks. I knew the other guy's response wasn't right, I was just wondering how to go about giving them water. The momma is about an inch, babies are an eighth of an inch, if that.


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## KDiiX (Sep 3, 2013)

Smokehound714 said:


> That's not true at all. Scorpions should always have access to fresh clean water at all times, regardless of the species.
> 
> an extremely shallow dish with pebbles that break the water's surface scattered around makes a great water source for babies.  they wont drown.
> 
> man the adults are tiny enough, but those babies are absurdly small lol


Of course it's true!!! Do you think scorpions in nature always have access to a shallow water bowl? Believe me or not but i have hundreds of scorpions ( about 90% desert species) and no one has any kind of water bowl! Why should i lie at this point? You most likely only read at a book or on Internet that scorpions need to have a bowl and believe that without questioning this. It's just stupid to say I'm wrong if you just trust what you heard but never experienced! I have enough experience to say it's absolutely not necessary to have any water bowl. My success in breeding and raising my scorpions should be proof enough.


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## kellakk (Sep 4, 2013)

I'm gonna have to agree with smokehound on a water bowl. While in nature they do not always have access to standing water, in captivity there is no place to look for water if they were dehydrated. Refer to this link: http://people.ucalgary.ca/~schultz/NaturalAndOrganic.html

I've found that it's best to give them a water bowl, because if I become a little negligent on misting then my scorpion will not become dehydrated. Also, there are numerous accounts of scorpions, even desert scorpions, drinking standing water in captivity, so don't try to say they don't.

I'm not trying to put down your methods, kdiix, just making a recommendation to the OP.

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## KDiiX (Sep 4, 2013)

kellakk said:


> I'm gonna have to agree with smokehound on a water bowl. While in nature they do not always have access to standing water, in captivity there is no place to look for water if they were dehydrated. Refer to this link: http://people.ucalgary.ca/~schultz/NaturalAndOrganic.html
> 
> I've found that it's best to give them a water bowl, because if I become a little negligent on misting then my scorpion will not become dehydrated. Also, there are numerous accounts of scorpions, even desert scorpions, drinking standing water in captivity, so don't try to say they don't.
> 
> I'm not trying to put down your methods, kdiix, just making a recommendation to the OP.



First of all there can be thousands of people saying you need to have a water bowl but actually that's no proof that you need to have a bowl. They actually still need no water bowl.
Getting negligent with your pets is a no go in general!!! But if you get negligent in misting do you really think the water bowl rises chances of survival? That's just nonsense. If the water bowl is so big and deep enough that the water does not evaporate until you would mist again it would help if you negligent,  BUT then it would raise the chance of mycosis because you risk permanent to high humidity. So you actually exchange the very very very low risk of dehydration for good chance in getting mycosis, because especially for beginners too high humidity is the most popular owner caused death! Its actually really funny if you think about that we talking from the best adapted animals for "no available water environments" on earth and you really think the need a permanent access to water? :-D 
I never said that scorpions won't drink water(and i never said that the have in nature no access to standing water, BUT actually about no desert scorpion has a permanent access to standing water why they should they need in captivity? ). Even my scorpions drink more or less regularly,  but not from a bowl just from moist substrate or water drops from the container and thats more than enough to get hydrated without risking a permanent high humidity because of water bowls.
Btw i have adult scorpions that get only every 1-2 month access to water or food, so do you really think being negligent in misting for a week will automatically kill your scorpions? But as i said even scorpions are animals and when it come to life animals you never should be negligent at all. Or do you recommend dog owner to give there dog access to 50 pounds of dog food just because you might be negligent in feeding?
Btw2: i didn't read the link you refer to completely because 1. I didn't find the exact part you were referring to in a short time 2. If its just another person saying they need permanent access to water i have to say its not true just because someone wrote it on a homepage instead into a board. I know that everyone who's saying they need a permanent access to standing water should panic more on risk of mycosis than the risk a scorpion will easy dehydrate!


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## Troyboy9219 (Sep 4, 2013)

Give them a bottle cap with water or a shallow water bowl with a sponge. Both will work great. Congrats on being a grandparent. Haha. Enjoy the family


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## ShredderEmp (Sep 4, 2013)

Troyboy9219 said:


> Give them a bottle cap with water or a shallow water bowl with a sponge. Both will work great. Congrats on being a grandparent. Haha. Enjoy the family


Sponges aren't usually recommended because they can harbor bacteria and mold.

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## kellakk (Sep 4, 2013)

Kdiix: I could argue with you, but I won't. I think you missed the line where I said I wasn't trying to put you down in any way. Sorry.


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## Perentie (Sep 5, 2013)

The scorp in question comes from an extremely humid place. In the time I caught the scorpion there would be about 6hrs a day when It wasn't raining, for ten days. Constant standing water? check. I'll take a waterbowl and put a stick in so the babies can climb out of the water, and the bowl.

---------- Post added 09-05-2013 at 07:59 PM ----------

The scorp in question comes from an extremely humid place. In the time I caught the scorpion there would be about 6hrs a day when It wasn't raining, for ten days. Constant standing water? check. I'll take a waterbowl and put a stick in so the babies can climb out of the water, and the bowl.


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## Smokehound714 (Sep 6, 2013)

Even arid species need a regular supply of clean water.  If you've ever been to the sonoran during summer, and a sudden downpour hits you from the monsoonal thunderstorms, you'll see every arachnid, insect, centipede, and reptile around making a mad dash to drink as much water as they can. Thunderstorms are a great thing for desert collectors for this reason


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## KDiiX (Sep 6, 2013)

Smokehound714 said:


> Even arid species need a regular supply of clean water.  If you've ever been to the sonoran during summer, and a sudden downpour hits you from the monsoonal thunderstorms, you'll see every arachnid, insect, centipede, and reptile around making a mad dash to drink as much water as they can. Thunderstorms are a great thing for desert collectors for this reason


Oh my god,  but you can read or am i wrong? Did i once say they don't need water? I just say that a permanent filled water bowl or a water bowl in general isn't needed. It's actually dangerous for some species if the humidity is to high because of a filled water bowl.

And no never been to sonoran SUMMER. But whats in the sonoran winter? If you point at the summer i have to guess in the winter the water supply even there is much lower. If water is a seasonal gift for them of course they will drink as much as they can, but this isn't a pro for using water bowls.

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## Perentie (Sep 6, 2013)

Babies dropped off the mom, all are in small deli cups. The mom died  Probably due to the stress of having the babies. Only one possible baby death. Haven't given up on him yet. 17 healthy babies (excluding a minor defect on one's claw.


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## ShredderEmp (Sep 6, 2013)

Sorry about the mama. She gave you a last hurrah.


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## Olsin (Sep 7, 2013)

KDiiX is absolutely right despite the general consensus that he's wrong. I have some parabuthus and leirus species that'll actually run away from open water and a few years ago i done an experiment where i smoothed out very fine sand around a small water container in a large 60 x 40 cm (groundplan) enclosure that had a pair of P.villosus's in it.....not until the water had been evaporated for over 3 weeks did i see footprints in the sand!
Besides most desert species have adapted and evolved over millions of years to get their moisture from the prey they capture and many desert scorps live in places that see minute amounts of yearly rainfall..Just those 2 bit's of common knowledge basically tell you all you need to know with regards to the validity of having an open water source standing in a desert enclosure.

A very occasional light misting in one corner of a desert species enclosure is the way to go....open water sources for desert species is just mycosis waiting to happen and anyone who values their desert scorps would be advised to heed that and not trust dubious advice that smacks of inexperience, from unknown sources.


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## lancej (Sep 7, 2013)

Vaejovis carolinianus is NOT a desert species.  The OP is right about where they come from.  They live in very humid, fungus filled microhabitats.  Dehydration is more of a concern than mycosis with this species (I don't even think they can get mycosis).  A plastic bottle cap with some pebbles would work very well for the babies.  You can get away with only misting, but you need to mist enough so that the substrate NEVER dries up.  Keep them separated, as they are cannibalistic towards molting cagemates.  I usually have long fiber sphagnum moss mixed in the substrate to help keep the substrate moist.  I also use a piece of cork (not the bark, but the thin sheets they sell at craft stores for making mini cork boards).  You can use one sheet of cork to make a lot of hides for those babies.  Good luck with your babies!


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## Perentie (Sep 7, 2013)

lancej said:


> Vaejovis carolinianus is NOT a desert species.  The OP is right about where they come from.  They live in very humid, fungus filled microhabitats.  Dehydration is more of a concern than mycosis with this species (I don't even think they can get mycosis).  A plastic bottle cap with some pebbles would work very well for the babies.  You can get away with only misting, but you need to mist enough so that the substrate NEVER dries up.  Keep them separated, as they are cannibalistic towards molting cagemates.  I usually have long fiber sphagnum moss mixed in the substrate to help keep the substrate moist.  I also use a piece of cork (not the bark, but the thin sheets they sell at craft stores for making mini cork boards).  You can use one sheet of cork to make a lot of hides for those babies.  Good luck with your babies!


 They are all in small deli cups, and the main issue is finding a waterdish small enough. I'll make it work. 


ShredderEmp said:


> Sorry about the mama. She gave you a last hurrah.


 yep. On a better note 17 babies are all doing fine. Because I did not have any waterbowls I wet the substrate in a small area. All of them walked over and got a good long drink.


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## lancej (Sep 7, 2013)

Since they are in small deli cups, just make sure they stay moist enough - maybe add a few pieces of long fiber sphagnum moss would be my suggestion, as it retains moisture extremely well.  When they are older and you transfer them to a larger container, then you can add a water dish of some sort.


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## Perentie (Sep 8, 2013)

lancej said:


> Since they are in small deli cups, just make sure they stay moist enough - maybe add a few pieces of long fiber sphagnum moss would be my suggestion, as it retains moisture extremely well.  When they are older and you transfer them to a larger container, then you can add a water dish of some sort.


Ok. I will wet down the substrate later, and when I get some sphagnum moss for my bromilead I'll put some in there.


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## KDiiX (Sep 9, 2013)

lancej said:


> Vaejovis carolinianus is NOT a desert species.  The OP is right about where they come from.  They live in very humid, fungus filled microhabitats.  Dehydration is more of a concern than mycosis with this species (I don't even think they can get mycosis).  A plastic bottle cap with some pebbles would work very well for the babies.  You can get away with only misting, but you need to mist enough so that the substrate NEVER dries up.  Keep them separated, as they are cannibalistic towards molting cagemates.  I usually have long fiber sphagnum moss mixed in the substrate to help keep the substrate moist.  I also use a piece of cork (not the bark, but the thin sheets they sell at craft stores for making mini cork boards).  You can use one sheet of cork to make a lot of hides for those babies.  Good luck with your babies!


It's really awesome how ignorant some comments are...nobody said V.carolinianus are desert scorpions,  but (let's try it with common sense) a desert species which lives in a dry environment with very hot temperatures has even more issues with dehydration then a scorpion that kept colder and humid.so if desert species don't need a water bowl of course humid scorpions don't need one either. I also raised my P.imperator,  L.mucronatus, T.gaffini and R.junceus without any problems without any water bowl (btw even all my t's have no bowl (P.smithi, B.smithi,.A.versicolor, A.purpurea etc). As long as you never tried to do it without you all just stick to a common myth!
But the best thing i read until now is the advice that the young ones are fine without with just some spaghnum and when they are bigger they should get a bowl. Actually if you want to give them a bowl its in the early instars more important because the younger scorpions have more issues with dehydration than adults. But for the last time: dehydration isn't a issue with scorpions if you mist properly no matter which species!  
Also humid scorpions can get mycosis especially if the ventilation isn't enough.


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## Perentie (Sep 9, 2013)

KDiiX said:


> It's really awesome how ignorant some comments are...nobody said V.carolinianus are desert scorpions,  but (let's try it with common sense) a desert species which lives in a dry environment with very hot temperatures has even more issues with dehydration then a scorpion that kept colder and humid.so if desert species don't need a water bowl of course humid scorpions don't need one either. I also raised my P.imperator,  L.mucronatus, T.gaffini and R.junceus without any problems without any water bowl (btw even all my t's have no bowl (P.smithi, B.smithi,.A.versicolor, A.purpurea etc). As long as you never tried to do it without you all just stick to a common myth!
> But the best thing i read until now is the advice that the young ones are fine without with just some spaghnum and when they are bigger they should get a bowl. Actually if you want to give them a bowl its in the early instars more important because the younger scorpions have more issues with dehydration than adults. But for the last time: dehydration isn't a issue with scorpions if you mist properly no matter which species!
> Also humid scorpions can get mycosis especially if the ventilation isn't enough.


 So you claim that even though an animal has something in the wild, It has no need for it in captivity? Do you know better than millions of years of evolution? your first statement is crazy. One animal is used to not having water and therefore has adapted to it. A scorpion in a humid environment with constant access to water needs water. It never evolved to survive with very little because it never needed to! Just because you kept them without it doesn't mean its right. If they have it in nature they should have it in captivity. Simple as that. That is what they evolved to do, and they don't change species just because they aren't wild. My scorpion ame from an area with 80-90% humidity. Of course there is a slim possibility mycosis could happen, but not in NATURAL conditions. If they got mycosis in that level of humidity they would not exist. They would have died out or evolved so they wouldn't.

---------- Post added 09-09-2013 at 07:49 PM ----------




KDiiX said:


> It's really awesome how ignorant some comments are...nobody said V.carolinianus are desert scorpions,  but (let's try it with common sense) a desert species which lives in a dry environment with very hot temperatures has even more issues with dehydration then a scorpion that kept colder and humid.so if desert species don't need a water bowl of course humid scorpions don't need one either. I also raised my P.imperator,  L.mucronatus, T.gaffini and R.junceus without any problems without any water bowl (btw even all my t's have no bowl (P.smithi, B.smithi,.A.versicolor, A.purpurea etc). As long as you never tried to do it without you all just stick to a common myth!
> But the best thing i read until now is the advice that the young ones are fine without with just some spaghnum and when they are bigger they should get a bowl. Actually if you want to give them a bowl its in the early instars more important because the younger scorpions have more issues with dehydration than adults. But for the last time: dehydration isn't a issue with scorpions if you mist properly no matter which species!
> Also humid scorpions can get mycosis especially if the ventilation isn't enough.


 So you claim that even though an animal has something in the wild, It has no need for it in captivity? Do you know better than millions of years of evolution? your first statement is crazy. One animal is used to not having water and therefore has adapted to it. A scorpion in a humid environment with constant access to water needs water. It never evolved to survive with very little because it never needed to! Just because you kept them without it doesn't mean its right. If they have it in nature they should have it in captivity. Simple as that. That is what they evolved to do, and they don't change species just because they aren't wild. My scorpion ame from an area with 80-90% humidity. Of course there is a slim possibility mycosis could happen, but not in NATURAL conditions. If they got mycosis in that level of humidity they would not exist. They would have died out or evolved so they wouldn't.

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## Smokehound714 (Sep 9, 2013)

All scorpions *REQUIRE* access to clean water at ALL times.  I dont care if your scorpion comes from the sahara, the atacama, or the Negev.  It needs access to water at all times.


  Your argument about your scorps running when water hits them is irrelevant, and really doesn't mean anything.  My arachnids dont like water hitting them, either, and they're from a humid area that receives quite a bit of rainfall, especially in winter.  

 "Proof"?  SO you mean to tell me you need proof to house your arachnids properly?  LOL


 I'm finished with this discussion.

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## lancej (Sep 9, 2013)

KDiiX said:


> It's really awesome how ignorant some comments are...nobody said V.carolinianus are desert scorpions,  but (let's try it with common sense) a desert species which lives in a dry environment with very hot temperatures has even more issues with dehydration then a scorpion that kept colder and humid.so if desert species don't need a water bowl of course humid scorpions don't need one either. I also raised my P.imperator,  L.mucronatus, T.gaffini and R.junceus without any problems without any water bowl (btw even all my t's have no bowl (P.smithi, B.smithi,.A.versicolor, A.purpurea etc). As long as you never tried to do it without you all just stick to a common myth!
> But the best thing i read until now is the advice that the young ones are fine without with just some spaghnum and when they are bigger they should get a bowl. Actually if you want to give them a bowl its in the early instars more important because the younger scorpions have more issues with dehydration than adults. But for the last time: dehydration isn't a issue with scorpions if you mist properly no matter which species!
> Also humid scorpions can get mycosis especially if the ventilation isn't enough.


The OP was asking specifically about Vaejovis carolinianus, yet you went on a tangent about desert species.  I wanted to clear that up because it sounded like you were confused.  I'm sorry if I ruffled any feathers or hurt any egos.  I was giving advice on a species that I have kept, raised, bred, and collected (roughly 20+ years with this species), and I always had better success with using a water bowl vs just misting.
As a note, desert species have evolved to conserve water, so, therefore, they need less water to maintain health; and humid living species excrete more water, so, therefore, they need more water to maintain health - just COMMON SENSE.


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## AzJohn (Sep 10, 2013)

This thread is dumb. The experienced keepers are all saying one thing and the people with no real knowledge are arguing with them. So why not jump in. I've raised thousand of scorpions, literally thousands, over the last ten years. I've kept just about every type  of scorpion you can find. Rain forest species like tityus, to desert species like andros and hottentotta. I've bred most of them and raised many up to adult hood.  Many of the species I've worked with were vary rare in the US. None of my tanks have standing water. The only time you'll see a scorpion drink is if it is dehydrated to start with. Unless the scorpion is dehydrated, standing water is just a trap to drown crickets in, or worse the scorpion. Most scorpions get their water from the food they eat or from the surrounding soil. Honestly, if your scorpion is healthy and happy it won't use a water dish.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

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## KDiiX (Sep 10, 2013)

Smokehound you are just a shame for a board. What you are saying is absolutely wrong. No scorpion needs access to water all the time! What you doing is just guessing they require acces to water all the time, but the reality is different. Instead of trusting somebody who knows better you stick to something that is simply wrong and nothing else. 
Olsins arguments on "hitting" water means actually a lot. He was not speaking of spribkling water from misting. That arachnids especially arboreal species escape from sprinkling water  it because they fear getting hit by drops of heavy rainfalls in the rainforest, those drops can be dangerous too. But that has nothjng to do with the fact that most scorpions avoid standing water!
I don't need any prooftthat I'm right. The proof for that is how successful I'm with keeping, raising and breeding scorpions from all different environments and almost all continents ( except australia) that should be proof enough for you that you're wrong, but either you're just to stupid to see the correlation or you just to ignorant to agree that your opinion isn't automatically right. 

Lancej: of course humid species are not adapted to have that less access to water then arid species. But that doesn't mean that they need a water bowl its just mean they need a more humid environment. All the water they need the get from prey, condensation at walls etc or moss as you self recommended for the i2 scorplings.
Its good if you have success with a water bowl, but i can tell you from wgat I'm experienced with begonners, who told me their scorpion died and if i have a guess why they died, the most cases constant to humid conditions was a big issue no matter if P.imperator, Heterometrus sp other humid or arid species the other most likely was jzst a term of old age. That's why I'm so consequent with my postings in this thread, because it's easier to get issues with to high humidity (especially in combination with low ventilation) then issues with dehydration. 


Perentie:
Obviously you don't know much about scorpions,  but less you know about fungal infections. Not only the humidity is responsible for fungal issues like mycosis. Ventilation is the more important thing. You never could have a ventilation in a deli cup or bigger enclosure which would be "natural"
To answer your question on if scorpions need to have everything they have in nature: no they don't!  Or do you know somebody who keeps his/her scorpions "communal" with meerkats or hedgehogs and other natural predators which love to feed on scorpions just because they exist in nature? Not everything in nature makes sense to adapt it for captivity. Let me guess one thing: you are the type of guy who sterilize bark etc you collect from outside isn't it? If so why do you do this? It comes from nature so it HAVE to be unsterilized if i adapt your thoughts about the water to this...


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## Olsin (Sep 10, 2013)

Smokehound714 said:


> All scorpions *REQUIRE* access to clean water at ALL times.  I dont care if your scorpion comes from the sahara, the atacama, or the Negev.  It needs access to water at all times.


Many myth's are created by people adding 2 and 2 and then accepting the obvious answer of 4 when in reality 4 is not akways the correct answer. These myth's can kick around for years because people simply accept the face value of what they see as "common sense" usually because they themselves have limited experience.
Heatpads positioned underneath an enclosure will fry your scorps, was another similar myth that was constantly being regurgitated by inexperienced keepers until it reached the status of lore, was a very good example of this phenomena.
So, back to your myth.........No my friend, all scorpions do not need access to clean water all the time....maybe you was thinking of dogs and cats  .. Of hand (and without naming them all) i can think of dozens of commonly kept scorpions that would eventually die if standing water was placed in their enclosures 24/7...especially when we consider that not even the best ventilated enclosure comes close to the exchange of air experienced "out in the free".......So, i'm really hoping that any noobs reading your statement will carry on reading through this thread so that get a more nuanced understanding of water contra scorpions and not simply accept your potential myth creation.
Again though KDiiX is correct....scorps only drink when they are dehydrated and if you mist and feed correctly they will never get dehydrated so there's no need to place a water bowl in with them.....especially not one that is kept topped up constantly.....the risk of fungal growths and unwanted parasites far outweigh any potential positive aspects.


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## ShredderEmp (Sep 10, 2013)

it shouldn't matter whether or not someone keeps scorpions with or without water. if it works for them, GREAT. If it works for others but you don't like it, TOO BAD. It works for them and they should not change it as long as it works. So scorpions may not NEED water at all times, but that doesn't mean they should or should not have it. DO WHAT WORKS FOR YOU.


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## Olsin (Sep 11, 2013)

No....do what works for the scorpion..!!

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## ShredderEmp (Sep 11, 2013)

Olsin said:


> No....do what works for the scorpion..!!


What works for you should work for the scorpion and vice versa.


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## Fulene (Sep 14, 2013)

Something I do with my Ts when they're getting ready to molt is, I place wet paper towels folded up into a " pad" about the T's size on a flat rock in the enclosure. They can lie on it if they need to. This would work for the scorps including the babies. You just have to change it every couple of days to avoid contamination. Works great.


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## Perentie (Sep 16, 2013)

Scorpions and Ts should be given the conditions they encounter in the wild. Simple as that. Anyone who says otherwise is fooling themselves. There is a reason they live there, because they evolved to need those conditions. Changing it might work, but it doesn't mean its right. On another note, my brother decided he had better things to do than give them water while I was on a camping trip  I'm down to 7 scorps, but they are doing really well.


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## ShredderEmp (Sep 16, 2013)

Show him what's up. Make him want to take care of your scorpions. That sucks.


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## Perentie (Sep 24, 2013)

ShredderEmp said:


> Show him what's up. Make him want to take care of your scorpions. That sucks.


I Yelled at him for like 10 min straight. The remaining ones love their fruit flies.

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## KDiiX (Sep 25, 2013)

Perentie said:


> Scorpions and Ts should be given the conditions they encounter in the wild. Simple as that. Anyone who says otherwise is fooling themselves. There is a reason they live there, because they evolved to need those conditions. Changing it might work, but it doesn't mean its right. On another note, my brother decided he had better things to do than give them water while I was on a camping trip  I'm down to 7 scorps, but they are doing really well.


Ah ok did you place a hedgehog in your enclosure? Because that belongs to their natural conditions. Actually you should be very careful how you argue if it's obvious that you don't follow your own argument.

Btw everone who care for Poecilotheria sp. and does not keep them at the natural conditions with up to 50 degree Celsius feel free to comment whynyou don't keep them at natural conditions :-D


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## Perentie (Sep 30, 2013)

KDiiX said:


> Ah ok did you place a hedgehog in your enclosure? Because that belongs to their natural conditions. Actually you should be very careful how you argue if it's obvious that you don't follow your own argument.


 Where are you finding hedgehogs in Georgia? Actually to an extent, predators could be a good thing. Ensuring that only the tough survive. That way the bad genes are weeded out.


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## KDiiX (Sep 30, 2013)

Perentie said:


> Where are you finding hedgehogs in Georgia? Actually to an extent, predators could be a good thing. Ensuring that only the tough survive. That way the bad genes are weeded out.


I just thought so because hedgehogs a very worldwide spread animals which are pretty adaptive to different climates and are predators for small scorpions,  as far as i know, but actually that just was a example why not everything could or should be adapted to captive care of animals. Other example does anyone only think about heating a Poecilotheria sp. enclosure up to 50º C just because in india so hot in the sun? 
And predators are definitely not good thing in captive care! Actually if you thought of what you where saying you should have noticed that by your own. In captive care you have one important difference to the natural environment: 4 walls that limitats the possible chance of hiding or escaping. Or do you really think if you through in into a enclosure of a tarantula or scorpion or something two crickets and one get eaten immediately and the other survived the survived one is the "stronger". That has nothing to do with survival of the fittest its just some kind of luck, because of the limited space. Even if you raise scorpions communal which are cannibalistic while raising them and only one survives at the end it's not the strongest that survived!  More likely one of the weakest survived, because the strongest get the most feeders and molts first and get first in the dangerous unprotected situation of molting, the period when most cannibalistic loses happens while raising scorpions communal.


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## Smokehound714 (Oct 1, 2013)

KDiiX said:


> Smokehound you are just a shame for a board. What you are saying is absolutely wrong. No scorpion needs access to water all the time! What you doing is just guessing they require acces to water all the time, but the reality is different. Instead of trusting somebody who knows better you stick to something that is simply wrong and nothing else.
> Olsins arguments on "hitting" water means actually a lot. He was not speaking of spribkling water from misting. That arachnids especially arboreal species escape from sprinkling water  it because they fear getting hit by drops of heavy rainfalls in the rainforest, those drops can be dangerous too. But that has nothjng to do with the fact that most scorpions avoid standing water!
> I don't need any prooftthat I'm right. The proof for that is how successful I'm with keeping, raising and breeding scorpions from all different environments and almost all continents ( except australia) that should be proof enough for you that you're wrong, but either you're just to stupid to see the correlation or you just to ignorant to agree that your opinion isn't automatically right.
> 
> ...


Knock it off with the name calling already.  You've insulted me twice.  Most scorpions avoid standing water?  You are so blocked.


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## AzJohn (Oct 1, 2013)

Smokehound714 said:


> Knock it off with the name calling already.  You've insulted me twice.  Most scorpions avoid standing water?  You are so blocked.


Why block him? He knows more than you and saying good advice. I guess knowing more than you and having more experience and sharing his knowledge gets him blocked. Honestly, I doubt he cares one bit about you. He'll keep making his well thought out suggestions, based on experience, not what petco told him. You can ignore everyone that knows more than you, but you'll be less of a keeper because of it.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Smokehound714 (Oct 1, 2013)

AzJohn said:


> Why block him? He knows more than you and saying good advice. I guess knowing more than you and having more experience and sharing his knowledge gets him blocked. Honestly, I doubt he cares one bit about you. He'll keep making his well thought out suggestions, based on experience, not what petco told him. You can ignore everyone that knows more than you, but you'll be less of a keeper because of it.


  What he knows has nothing to do with it.  He flat out insulted me, calling me "a shame to this forum".

     I do not mind debate,  he has his stance, and I have my own.  But to use insults and personal attacks is deplorable  and deserving of contempt.


   Btw, this is the first time I've ever placed ANYONE in this forum in my ignore list  your statement suggesting im ignore-happy is hilarious.  Im not into pedantic pissing-matches, so I'll leave this discussion to you folks.

  Have a nice day


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## pperrotta03 (Oct 1, 2013)

I have sometimes found sponges to be useful with very tiny insects, you just need to have a sponge that is not too dense, where the fibers are more spread out. You need to have it in a bowl though, and you need to clean it often and very carefully. Other methods are better for scorps. You can take a shallow water dish and put rocks in it to prevent drowning, but not so many that it wont retain any water. Enough so that half of the rocks on the top layer are halfway-three quarters out of the water, and use small rocks for this. Nothing dusty. Gravel for aquariums work well if you wash it out very well.


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## ShredderEmp (Oct 1, 2013)

Or instead of name calling, you provide the facts that lead you to believe this and let the owner decide how it is done?


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## AzJohn (Oct 1, 2013)

Smokehound714 said:


> What he knows has nothing to do with it.  He flat out insulted me, calling me "a shame to this forum".
> 
> I do not mind debate,  he has his stance, and I have my own.  But to use insults and personal attacks is deplorable  and deserving of contempt.
> 
> ...


I've got another idea. Why don't we learn something. Forums are for passing along information. If some one who knows way more than you listening to them is a good thing. In this thread you have argued with a lot people that clearly know way more than you do about keeping a breeding scorpions. These are the advanced hobbyist that you should be trying to learn from. Instead, you want to take your ball and go home. I'm not saying that these guys are the nicest people in the world, but the information you can get is very valuable.


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## Smokehound714 (Oct 2, 2013)

AzJohn said:


> I've got another idea. Why don't we learn something. Forums are for passing along information. If some one who knows way more than you listening to them is a good thing. *In this thread you have argued with a lot people that clearly know way more than you do about keeping a breeding scorpions.* These are the advanced hobbyist that you should be trying to learn from. Instead, you want to take your ball and go home. I'm not saying that these guys are the nicest people in the world, but the information you can get is very valuable.


 There you go again...

  First of all, mesobuthus is by no means a difficult genus to keep.  if you wanna play the "advanced" card, impress me by raising a brood of Hadrurus from 1st instar, to at LEAST the penultimate molt. 

 Second of all, how do you know I'm not an advanced hobbyist, myself?  Simply because i strongly believe all scorpions need access to a dish of water?  Ridiculous.  

  What if a scorpion suffers an injury, causing dehydration, and you're not around to notice this, and didn't have the one thing that would keep it alive in your absence?  

  What if your scorpion really really needs a drink for some unforeseen circumstance, totally contradicting everything you knew?   That one time they need water, it wont be there.

  You can keep the ball.


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## AzJohn (Oct 2, 2013)

Smokehound714 said:


> There you go again...
> 
> First of all, mesobuthus is by no means a difficult genus to keep.  if you wanna play the "advanced" card, impress me by raising a brood of Hadrurus from 1st instar, to at LEAST the penultimate molt.


Are you talking about me or the other poster you were arguing with. I think you should look at people post and read their threads regardless. You can check my picture thread if it is still up. You will notice several species that, at the time no one else had. You will also notice that many of those same species are now in the hands of other hobbyist, mainly because I successfully bred and raised them up. IN fact their are many very cool specie in the US now, only because I bred them and sold them. PS I have an H.a that I have raised from 2i to adulthood. Search and you can probably find the thread.

---------- Post added 10-02-2013 at 11:19 AM ----------




Smokehound714 said:


> There you go again...
> 
> Second of all, how do you know I'm not an advanced hobbyist, myself?  Simply because i strongly believe all scorpions need access to a dish of water?  Ridiculous.


Your answers lack the depth of understanding that an experienced keeper would have. Your reasoning is based on what someone else had told you. I have kept 1000s of scorpions over the last ten years, without a water bowl. This disproves your thesis right away. Simple enough. I think you have just started keeping scorpions, and have a very limited experience with the species you are keeping. If you consider yourself an advanced hobbyist, you should think again.

---------- Post added 10-02-2013 at 11:23 AM ----------




Smokehound714 said:


> There you go again...
> 
> What if a scorpion suffers an injury, causing dehydration, and you're not around to notice this, and didn't have the one thing that would keep it alive in your absence?
> 
> ...


In the wild scorpions suffer injuries all the time. Living underground or in trees, they almost never have standing water to drink from. Do they all die. The only time I've ever seen a dehydrated scorpion is when the owner allows the substrate to be dry for prolong periods of time. I've seen dehydrated scorpions with a water dish, because the soil was very dry and the humidity of the burrow was insufficient.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Smokehound714 (Oct 2, 2013)

...I said FIRST INSTAR.

  And to clarify, when I say injury, I mean a wound that leaks hemolymph.  I will not take back what I said.  Let's just leave it at that.


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