# FL Man arrested for smuggling roaches



## Sooner (Jan 28, 2011)

http://www.wftv.com/news/26641743/detail.html?cxntlid=cmg_cntnt_rss


> ORLANDO, Fla. -- Most of us would do anything to keep cockroaches out of our homes. However, an Orlando man was arrested Wednesday night for smuggling them into the state and into his house.
> 
> Apparently, bugs are a big business, and officers said he had them illegally shipped into Orlando from California.


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## What (Jan 28, 2011)

Always great to hear that a past member has been arrested for being stupid...


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## zonbonzovi (Jan 28, 2011)

Why people in FL don't cultivate those readily available to them is a head scratcher...I found several varieties in a 2 week span.


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## ZephAmp (Jan 28, 2011)

zonbonzovi said:


> Why people in FL don't cultivate those readily available to them is a head scratcher...I found several varieties in a 2 week span.


They practically have a roach buffet down there.
_Blaberus discoidalis. Blaberus craniifer. Blaberus giganteus.
Panchlora nivea. Blatta orientalis. Periplaneta australasiae. Periplaneta americana. Periplaneta fuliginosa. Pycnoscelus surinamensis.  _

Plenty of tasty ones to choose from.

*And the list goes on! _Hemiblabera tenebricosa, Eurycotis floridana, Periplaneta brunnea._ Good lord.


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## What (Jan 28, 2011)

zonbonzovi said:


> Why people in FL don't cultivate those readily available to them is a head scratcher...I found several varieties in a 2 week span.


They would have to go find them... That is probably the issue, it is amazing how many people who keep bugs have no idea what is right outside their own doors.


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## BobGrill (Jan 28, 2011)

zonbonzovi said:


> Why people in FL don't cultivate those readily available to them is a head scratcher...I found several varieties in a 2 week span.


That could be a questionable statement you just made. I don't hold grudges but I'm frrom Florida and found that statement rather insulting.


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## Nomadinexile (Jan 28, 2011)

Good to know the FLP have their priorities straight.  One less man trying to feed his pets safely put away where he belongs.  My tax money is being well spent.   I might actually sleep well tonight for the first time in decades knowing this guy is busted.  :wall:


As for all of you confused as to why he wouldn't want to go collect hundreds or thousands of roaches for feeders....

Well, he might not have the time or be able to afford to make it.  Roaches are cheap, time is expensive, mine anyway.

Another option is that he cares about his animals.   You may get lucky once or twice collecting wild feeders, but your luck will run out eventually.   There isn't an acre of land in Florida that isn't polluted with neurologically damaging chemicals.   Many of them are put their by the residents, others by industry.  But they are there.  From the Panhandle to Nasa, Key West to the Everglades.  Now there are places I would wild catch feeders, but florida is not one of them.  

This is insane.   There are more non-natives brought into the state every day by national and international trade in food and plants, than this guy could ever imagine.  

If I thought they actually cared about the environment, then I'd reconsider my thoughts on this.  But I know what that state allows to happen, and makes happen.  They care as much about the environment as they do constituents that don't donate to their campaigns.  (which is zero)

This is just another example of the government squeezing everyone they can for every penny they can.   Meanwhile, the crooks who dumped millions of gallons of crude oil and Corexit (poison) into the gulf of mexico, are circling the planet in private planes and eating 8 course meals between "massages".  The banksters who tanked the world economy are still considers "respectable", many of them maintaing posistions within the current administration, while recieving ungodly bonuses for putting generations of Americans in Debt.  I know of many people eating dog food right now trying to avoid foreclosure.

But hey, they got feeder boy off the streets.


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## What (Jan 29, 2011)

Nomadinexile said:


> My tax money is being well spent.


Unless you live in Florida your tax money is safe... Also, its worth noting the article states he had altered his state issued permits... Pretty much shows he wasnt planning on doing things right just from the start.


> As for all of you confused as to why he wouldn't want to go collect hundreds or thousands of roaches for feeders....
> Well, he might not have the time or be able to afford to make it.  Roaches are cheap, time is expensive, mine anyway.


Nobody is suggesting he collect feeders from outdoors... The suggestion that he collect then start colonies was made in not so many words, though. There are many species of roaches native to Florida, many of them are also suitible for use as feeders.


> (The rest of your post)


Irrelevancy. Go post that in TWH.


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## codykrr (Jan 29, 2011)

I think they came down a bit harsh.  I see the reasoning.  but two felonies?  

I can understand the felony for changing a permit though.

Either way, I am sure there are dealers on the boards with legal florida roaches for sale.

sad when people break the laws...even when they are kinda outrageous.


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## Introvertebrate (Jan 29, 2011)

Have you ever noticed that the species we _*really*_ like never run rampant in Florida.  I'd like to start infestations of Poecilotheria metallicas, Orchid Mantises, Day Geckos, and rare Poison Dart Frogs down there.


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## Tleilaxu (Jan 29, 2011)

More worrying is the fact that they found out he _had_ the roaches in the first place... Seriously how do they find this stuff. Unless he boasted about getting them... 

Either way glad to see the FWS has their priorities straight... [/sarcasm]


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## Galapoheros (Jan 29, 2011)

Going by the link in What's earliest post, it looks like he has been selling them for a long time.  My guess is that "they" might have known about it for a long time, maybe waiting for him to stop and got tired of it.  I think they came down a little hard too but it might be the case that he had been given several warnings and maybe some fines, it wouldn't surprise me and if that's the case it would seem more reasonable to me.  Kind of unrelated, I agree with Nomad that there bigger fish to fry, too much gov, it's too big, too many people looking for a slot in gov.  If there isn't a slot, it's almost like they make something up that really is just a waste.  I watched a fed employee on TV that had the job of testing the flow of ketchup and was making $60,000 a year.  I saw that on something like 60 minutes back in the late 90's irrc.  He put the bottle of ketchup on a stand and timed the flow, that was all. 




Tleilaxu said:


> More worrying is the fact that they found out he _had_ the roaches in the first place... Seriously how do they find this stuff. Unless he boasted about getting them...
> 
> Either way glad to see the FWS has their priorities straight... [/sarcasm]


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## xhexdx (Jan 30, 2011)

I'm not trying to make excuses for this guy, but to everyone who is essentially saying 'he deserved it for breaking the law'...

...how many of you have shipped USPS?

You're all hypocrites.  You *do* know it's a felony to ship tarantulas through USPS, right?

To all of you saying he should just catch and breed the zillions of roach species that are in Florida?

How many of you have _Periplaneta americana_ in your state?

You're all hypocrites too.



ZephAmp said:


> They practically have a roach buffet down there.
> _Blaberus discoidalis. Blaberus craniifer. Blaberus giganteus.
> Panchlora nivea. Blatta orientalis. Periplaneta australasiae. Periplaneta americana. Periplaneta fuliginosa. Pycnoscelus surinamensis.  _
> 
> ...


Yep, and they're all literally *in my backyard*, right? 

I've been here 15 years and the only one I see around here is _Periplaneta americana_.  None of the *Blaberus* species are 'in my backyard', nor are _Panchlora nivea_.  If they were, you bet I'd not only have colonies of these, but I'd be selling them like crazy.

I'm not saying this guy doesn't 'deserve' to get in trouble, but you guys are making it out like you're all saints and that all us lucky Floridians should just run outside and catch the roaches that are all waiting anxiously to jump into our bins.


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## codykrr (Jan 30, 2011)

Joe, Quick question.

Are roach breeders in FL allowed to sell species that are native or already present?

Maybe this guy could have avoided a lot of trouble by buying from a FL roach breeder.  

Also, can you all accept roaches from out of state that are also native?

IE- Blaberus discoidalis, Blaberus craniifer, Blaberus giganteus.


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## Alejandro45 (Jan 30, 2011)

Codykrr

You can keep native/naturalized roach species, but I am not too sure on selling them.
 It’s really hard to find any of the naturalized Blaberus, their populations are scattered and they are in some of the worst places to go looking for bugs.
I almost got robbed while looking for Discoidalis in a Latin barrio. The native roaches are rarely found outside the everglades “national park”.

Zonbonzovi 

If you would be so kind to PM me the specific locality of where you found several Sp I would greatly appreciate it. It would save me a lot of back and forth driving. 

Well that’s my two cents. 

I am off to talk to head of waste management to ask for permission if I can look for roaches in a garbage site that is a five hour drive from me, just to see if there is a specific roach species still there.


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## What (Jan 30, 2011)

xhexdx said:


> You're all hypocrites.  You *do* know it's a felony to ship tarantulas through USPS, right?
> 
> To all of you saying he should just catch and breed the zillions of roach species that are in Florida?
> 
> How many of you have _Periplaneta americana_ in your state?


Shipping Ts through USPS is a felony, and anyone caught or fined for it absolutely deserves it. I would absolutely deserve it if *I* were to be caught doing such a thing(but I rarely ship things, let alone Ts), how exactly does that make anyone in this thread a hypocrite? He was arrested for being stuipid. Note also, the article doesnt say he was using USPS, he could very well have been legally shipping roaches and just violated Florida law.

How many people here raise native roach species? I know I have a couple. In the past I have spent hours looking for Arenivaga and other types of the more interesting and less pedestrian roaches. I also could go find P. americana or B. lateralis just down the road, but thankfully I dont live in a state where any species are illegal(within the scope of this thread) so I will keep my B. fusca colony.


> Yep, and they're all literally *in my backyard*, right?
> 
> I've been here 15 years and the only one I see around here is _Periplaneta americana_.


I would be willing to bet that within a mile of you there are multiple species of roaches, probably even one or two commonly used as feeders(aside from P. americana).


> I'm not saying this guy doesn't 'deserve' to get in trouble, but you guys are making it out like you're all saints and that all us lucky Floridians should just run outside and catch the roaches that are all waiting anxiously to jump into our bins.


Nobody has said anything about themselves or their own behavior, nobody has made any comment making anyone sound like saints(we all know shipping with USPS is illegal, as do we all that just about everyone in the hobby has done it), and nobody is making wild exaggerations. 

But yeah, you Floridians are lucky. The number of unique species you have found only in Florida is amazing, stop complaining about us pointing that out and go outside. Seriously, maybe then you would find something other than P. americana...I find it hard to believe you have never found anything else, every person I know of who has gone to Florida on a vacation saw >3 species in their time there.


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## xhexdx (Jan 30, 2011)

You're making some pretty broad assumptions.

Multiple species of roaches within a mile of me?  Yes, probably.  Good luck finding them.  The only species around here *in mass quantities* is P. americana.

I also wasn't complaining about anyone pointing out how many unique species there are here.  Maybe you should re-read my post, since you obviously missed my points.



codykrr said:


> Joe, Quick question.
> 
> Are roach breeders in FL allowed to sell species that are native or already present?
> 
> ...


I don't know if FL breeders can legally sell native/established species out-of-state.

I assume we can accept roaches from out-of-state that are native/established here, but again, I don't know for sure.  I haven't done any breeding/selling of any roach species, so I've had no reason to become familiar with the laws other than knowing what's legal to keep.


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## codykrr (Jan 30, 2011)

So what do you feed? Crickets?


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## Alejandro45 (Jan 30, 2011)

http://www.freshfromflorida.com/pi/enpp/pdf/Guideline-for-Importing-Exotic-and-Non.pdf

:wall:

What 

trust me I have lived in South FL all my life alot of that time was spent snake and bug hunting, FL scrubland is different in terms of microhabits and hunting them out here is very limited to levy systems. naturalized roaches are few and far between.

cheers


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## What (Jan 30, 2011)

xhexdx said:


> Multiple species of roaches within a mile of me?  Yes, probably.  Good luck finding them.  The only species around here *in mass quantities* is P. americana.
> ...I haven't done any breeding/selling of any roach species, so I've had no reason to become familiar...


Forgive me if I dont take your word on it.

As for mass quantities... Who needs them? I have started colonies of some of California's native roaches with 3-5 individuals.


Alejandro45 said:


> trust me I have lived in South FL all my life alot of that time was spent snake and bug hunting, FL scrubland is different in terms of microhabits and hunting them out here is very limited to levy systems. naturalized roaches are few and far between.


While I can not claim to ever have bug hunted in Florida... I have spent time looking specifically for bugs in 17 of the states I have been to, the only one I didnt find roaches in while looking was Alaska. I dont doubt that the introduced species(and even the native ones) may have restricted distributions, but that is no different from any other bug. Is there something special about FL that is a game changer?


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## ZephAmp (Jan 30, 2011)

Alejandro45 said:


> trust me I have lived in South FL ...r anyone interested I was in Ft. Lauderdale.)


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## Alejandro45 (Jan 30, 2011)

---------- Post added at 02:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:26 PM ----------

[/COLOR]





ZephAmp said:


> I beg to differ.
> I went to Florida for ten days last spring. I was able to find hundreds of _Pycnoscelus surinamensis_ and about 30 or 40 _Periplaneta australasiae_, just by digging around in some leaf litter on public property. Somebody could very easily start a colony of either and use them as feeders; P. surinamensis are very bulky and ungodly easy to grow.
> (For anyone interested I was in Ft. Lauderdale.)


your right about Pycnoscelus surinamensis being everywere. But those would make a poor feeder their so small. I do enjoy keeping them and feeding them to the Nephila clavipes in my yard.

in terms of blaberus they are not nearly as common. But if someone was willing to go out of there way to find these roaches by all means try it is fun to go out and look for yourself.


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## ZephAmp (Jan 30, 2011)

Alejandro45 said:


> ---------- Post added at 02:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:26 PM ----------
> 
> [/COLOR]
> 
> ...


This is true.
I didn't read the .pdf you posted, but does it say that cannot bring into the state an animal that is already established? Such as B. discoidalis? I'm sure if if you were allowed to bring in B. discoidalis it would bring an end to the search for a large feeder.


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## Alejandro45 (Jan 30, 2011)

No permits are needed for native Florida species (except for species listed as Endangered or Threatened) or naturalized species that are obtained from in-state sources. This includes, but is not restricted to, the following organisms:

Crustacea:
Decapoda: Coenobitidae:
Coenobita clypeata – Caribbean hermit crab

Insecta:
Blattoidea: All native or naturalized Florida species of cockroaches.
Blaberidae:
Blaberus craniifer – death’s head roach
Blaberus discoidalis – discoid roach
Panchlora nivea – green banana or Cuban roach
Blatellidae:
Blatella asahinai – Asian roach

If this would be treated like hot snakes and scorpions with venomous permits we would not have this problem. All it would take is make a permit system that requires one to be of age and require  an escape proof room.   

Also roaches are beautiful and their excellent teaching tools in the classroom.


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## Tleilaxu (Jan 30, 2011)

If it helps any native FLA peeps I saw some naturalized Blaberus species down in Marathon and  Islamorada. I was going to take some home but then decided to release them so others could enjoy them.


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## ZergFront (Jan 30, 2011)

I know I'd love the warm weather in FL or Hawaii but this is just one of the reasons I wouldn't want to live there. Because so many nonnative flora and fauna do settle in nicely or just take-over, they are paranoid about every living thing that comes in.

 I'd rather be able to get my bugs no problem. LOL!


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## Introvertebrate (Jan 30, 2011)

ZergFront said:


> ................so many nonnative flora and fauna do settle in nicely or just take-over.............


I blame Christopher Columbus.  We were pristine before he showed up.


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## ZergFront (Jan 30, 2011)

Introvertebrate said:


> I blame Christopher Columbus.  We were pristine before he showed up.




 I know. Curse that Man! Because of him I'm not in the UK sipping tea. *drinks tea*


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## presurcukr (Jan 30, 2011)

Well I'm glad I feed off my roaches and now only have legal feeders!!!


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## jebbewocky (Jan 30, 2011)

I think the guy "deserved" it insofar as he knowingly broke the law.
I'm not claiming I've never done so, having received spiders by USPS I have done so in fact--but if I got caught, I'd deal with it--that is, IMO--we both deserve it, but I didn't get caught.

Plus--I've never committed fraud by falsifying a permit.  That's just doing the cop's job for them.


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## Lucas339 (Jan 31, 2011)

Alejandro45 said:


> No permits are needed for native Florida species (except for species listed as Endangered or Threatened) or naturalized species that are obtained from in-state sources. This includes, but is not restricted to, the following organisms:
> 
> Crustacea:
> Decapoda: Coenobitidae:
> ...


all of the florida law are at the officers discretion.  i have seen many people deal with FWC for animal violations and there is no rhyme or reason to how they hand out citations.  for example, i have a good friend who was just fined because according to FWC his monitors cage was 4" too short.  this guy has been breeding monitors for years!  i would not be surpised in the least if someone got popped for having any of the roaches on the list above even though they bought from inside the state.


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## Alejandro45 (Jan 31, 2011)

Lucas339

I agree with you on FWC officers there real "characters" at times Bill stiffler is the one most people watch out for. 

But always defend yourself with good paperwork, they have to go buy the book and if your friend has the solid documentation they will have to obide by it. 

This remindes me of a time when Mario got fined for haveing a alligator snapper without a dock to get out of the water. everyone knows they never leave the water unless to lay eggs, but the law states all turtles require a dock to remove themself from the water.

what does your friend breed? I have been looking for some cb varanus


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## Lucas339 (Jan 31, 2011)

no sure what paperwork he could have provided to get out of the citation.  they gave him several warning on not having receipts for his animals.  

i don't really speak monitor.  he tells me everytime im over there but i always forget.  i wish i had to room for one though!!


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## Nomadinexile (Jan 31, 2011)

What said:


> Unless you live in Florida your tax money is safe... Also, its worth noting the article states he had altered his state issued permits... Pretty much shows he wasnt planning on doing things right just from the start.
> 
> Nobody is suggesting he collect feeders from outdoors... The suggestion that he collect then start colonies was made in not so many words, though. There are many species of roaches native to Florida, many of them are also suitible for use as feeders.
> 
> Irrelevancy. Go post that in TWH.


That would be corrrect, except for the fact that law enforcement is heavily subsidized by the federal government.  Even if this particular branch is not, the subsidization of other branches allows the state to spend their money on this one.  On top of that, don't forget the "stimulus".  Trust me, plenty of my tax money is spent in florida.   All the while, your politicians can't balance their budget!  Thanks Florida!

I'm sorry, I thought the guy talking about getting tons of feeders there was.
Regardless, starting a colony is a great idea for the casual hobbyist with a small collection.  It does not help someone with a large collection or commercial sales.   Not for years, unless your idea of a colony start involves thousands of roaches.  

Suitable for feeders does not mean optimal.   There are nutrition "labels" for the commonly used species.   There are not that I am aware of for some of the species you mention.   That also does not include the fact that your starter colony might come with parasites!   In this situation, buying a healthy stable colony is the best bet.

As for the irrelvent parts of my posts, I can agree to disagree.   But I will say this in closing:   As long as children disappear daily, and there are whole large parts of the internet dedicated to their abuse and destruction of their souls, this will remain disgusting to me.   And I will continue to be disgusted by my country.

To all of you saying "follow the law", you do realize that our laws are over-reaching and untenable right?   You do realize that 99.9% of our population are criminals.   EVERYONE in America breaks a law, knowingly or unknowingly, or a fairly regular basis.   EVERYONE.  It's just a matter of whether you get caught, or if you are rich enough to make it go away.  This country is becoming a nanny/police state.   As long as everyone acts like all laws should be followed, you are only enabling you or your childrens arrest and jailing by a disgustingly large prison industrial complex.   Should someone face gang-rape, beatings and possibly their murder in the WORLDS LARGEST prison system because they could find no reasonable way to get feeders for pets or sale?   I don't think so.  I hope you come around someday.  Peace for All.


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## What (Jan 31, 2011)

Nomadinexile said:


> Trust me, plenty of my tax money is spent in florida.


No more of your tax money is spent in FL than in any other state, was the idea I had in mind while typing that post.(In fact, feel free to be more upset about money going to AK, HI, NM, ND, KS, VA, MD, DC, CT, and MA who received $12k per capita or more in 2009. Its still irrelevant.)


> I'm sorry, I thought the guy talking about getting tons of feeders there was.
> Regardless, starting a colony is a great idea for the casual hobbyist with a small collection.  It does not help someone with a large collection or commercial sales.   Not for years, unless your idea of a colony start involves thousands of roaches.


I started my dubia colony from 20 nymphs, its population was upwards of 200 adults a year later and I was feeding heavily out of it, with some pestiferous species that can be done even faster.  
But I agree, it doesnt help a commercial seller or a large collection, but there are legitimate sources of roaches within Florida. It is perfectly possible to legally have roach colonies in FL. He didnt follow the law. That is what happened here.


> Suitable for feeders does not mean optimal... That also does not include the fact that your starter colony might come with parasites!


Optimal feeders... lol. Parasites though are a valid concern, personally I have never found a parasitized roach(other than mites), Im sure they exist though...


> As long as children disappear daily, and there are whole large parts of the internet dedicated to their abuse and destruction of their souls


What whole large parts of the internet are those? What does that even have to do with a guy modifying paperwork and illegally having roaches? Is there some connection I am missing?


> To all of you saying "follow the law", you do realize that our laws are over-reaching and untenable right? ...Should someone face prison because they could find no reasonable way to get feeders for pets or sale?   I don't think so.  I hope you come around someday.


Everyone realizes that, see the whole "shipping Ts is a felony thing earlier". Seriously...tone it down, for your sake as much as everyone else's. Hopefully the guy just ends up with a fine, isnt he out on bail right now anyway?


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## zonbonzovi (Feb 1, 2011)

"If you would be so kind to PM me the specific locality of where you found several Sp I would greatly appreciate it. It would save me a lot of back and forth driving."

Alejandro, Walmart has everything, esp. out back where incoming shipments are dropped off.  I wish I would have taken pictures, but most of the roaches I found were at the back of "big box" & discount stores, 'round midnight.  I'm not much into roaches when not feeding them...beetles were my target & there were prob. 4 roaches to every 1 beetle hanging about by the lights.  I'm not much for IDing them either, but recognized several different species, esp. in the north end of the state, much more so in rural areas.  Live Oak Walmart was crawling with the usual pests, but also with larger species.  E. of Jacksonville was another hot spot, mostly where the McMansion sprawl meets green space. Admittedly, I was searching several hours a day, in different locales throughout the state over the course of 2 weeks.

BobGrill, I'm not sure why you feel "insulted".  I really don't have a take on the legalities FL F&W or the person who was arrested.  My point was: feeders had to come from somewhere initially and I think we simply overlook what is commonly available to us.  Rather than risk fines & such, I'm merely saying that you may have an untapped resource at your fingertips that would negate the need for incoming roach shipments.


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## Scythemantis (Feb 2, 2011)

Florida is already hopelessly dominated by aggressive non-native species, there's absolutely NOTHING dubia roaches could possibly do to the ecology. Hell, there's already 60 or 70 types of roach living here and no evidence they've caused any harm.

Even as an environmentalist I have to disagree with the strictness of these laws, it seems like no research goes into them.


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## Nomadinexile (Feb 4, 2011)

Nevermind...


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## Mat (Feb 10, 2011)

http://weblogs.sun-sentinel.com/new.../2011/01/man_accused_of_purchasing_500_1.html

FloriDUH

Weird, wacky, strange news from the Sunshine State


Man accused of purchasing 500 illegal exotic roaches online


By Barbara Hijek January 31, 2011 05:47 AMFlorida is the cockroach capital of the world, so why would we need more?

Apparently there is a need.

The online purchase of 500 illegal exotic roaches, coveted as gourmet reptile food because of their soft shells and high protein content, sent an Orlando man to jail on felony charges, reports the Orlando Sentinel.

Agents with the Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services said Derek Alan Rader forged a permit to make it appear as though he could legally purchase the creepy crawlers, known as Blaptica dubia, a native of South and Central America.

While the roaches are a tasty and nutritious treat for many reptile pets, state entomologists consider them an invasive insect in Florida.


Entomologists said the state already has the largest number of roach species in the United States, and one-third of them were introduced into the state by humans.

The banned bugs, also called the Guyana Orange Spotted Cockroach, is a species "capable of causing harm to Florida's delicate ecological system," said Greg Hodges, bureau chief of entomology at the state's Division of Plant Industry.

Officials on Wednesday detained Rader on an arrest warrant and booked him into the Orange County Jail.

He is charged with forgery of a public record certificate, fraud and introduction of pests affecting plant life.

He left jail after paying $2,500 bail.

Court records show Rader in October contacted an insect and reptile enthusiast in California by e-mail, requesting 500 of the banned insects.

The person agreed to sell the insects but waited until Rader forwarded a copy of his permit.

Rader sent the seller a receipt for the payment and a copy of his permit, which showed he was allowed to purchase the insects.

The seller tried to confirm the accuracy of the permit with state officials in Florida but sent the insects before getting a response.

The seller mailed the bugs to Rader at a post office box in Orlando.

Investigators said Rader altered his expired permit to show he could buy the banned bugs in Florida.

An online search of insect vendors shows 500 roaches sell for about $100.

It is unclear why Rader purchased the bugs. However, when detectives rummaged through his garbage looking for evidence, they found 1,500 fliers showing he ran a website named FlyCulture.com.

That website is no longer active.

Image: Image: Blaptica dubia / arachnoboards.com


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## Stylopidae (Feb 10, 2011)

What said:


> I started my dubia colony from 20 nymphs, its population was upwards of 200 adults a year later and I was feeding heavily out of it, with some pestiferous species that can be done even faster.
> But I agree, it doesnt help a commercial seller or a large collection, but there are legitimate sources of roaches within Florida. It is perfectly possible to legally have roach colonies in FL. He didnt follow the law. That is what happened here.
> 
> Optimal feeders... lol. Parasites though are a valid concern, personally I have never found a parasitized roach(other than mites), Im sure they exist though...


There's also the question of whether roach parasites will live in non-native Theraphosidae...lots of parasites are very host specific, and some aren't specific. In fact, there are parasites in every Tenebrio colony...single celled organisms which live in the reproductive tract. They don't seem to cause a lot of problems.

Although, if parasites are such a big concern after a few dozen generations it kind of makes me wonder how these relatively safe Blaptica/Blaberus/Tenebrio, etc. colonies got started in the first place. 

The fears over pesticides and parasites are overblown from what I know of the subject. If you isolate some newly hatched nymphs soon after they're born and before they have a chance to feed on the corpse of an adult it shouldn't be a problem.

I'm living in Georgia at the moment, and on any given summer night I could collect enough smokybrown roaches to start my own feeder colony within a few hours. I usually see about 4/5 a night without going out of my way. If I grabbed every one I saw, I'd have enough to start a colony in like two weeks even if I assume I didn't grab any gravid females.



Scythemantis said:


> Florida is already hopelessly dominated by aggressive non-native species, there's absolutely NOTHING dubia roaches could possibly do to the ecology. Hell, there's already 60 or 70 types of roach living here and no evidence they've caused any harm.
> 
> Even as an environmentalist I have to disagree with the strictness of these laws, it seems like no research goes into them.


Roaches are generally studied from an urban standpoint, rather than an ecological standpoint. The only roaches in this part of the country that I know of which have an extensive ecological body of work are the Cryptocercus species, and this is only because of their close relation to termites. It's quite possible that competition between species could have an effect on what roaches show up in cities, but I doubt any major work has gone into this.

So, you're technically correct in that there's no evidence exotic roaches have caused any ecological harm...however the reason this is true is because it's not being looked into. There are some exotic species which have been introduced that pest management professionals have to be on the lookout for, although I know nothing about prevalence.


----------



## lampeye (Feb 15, 2011)

Odd, all the comments about not being able to find certain roaches in FL.  I spent a few days in the St. Pete/Tampa area years ago and I remember finding all kinds of goodies, including large numbers of terrestrial roaches (if my memory serves me correctly, they were probably discoids) and glass lizards just looking under junk in alleys in suburban neighborhoods.  This was in an usually warm January, so I suspect a collecting trip for starter roaches might be better in cooler weather: high temps might chase terrestrial roaches deeper underground.  

It goes without saying that American roaches were EV.  ERY.  WHERE.  Being from the north, it was jarring when I took my first walk at night, and the penny dropped - most of those "leaves" on the sidewalk...were moving out of my way.


----------



## gmrpnk21 (Feb 17, 2011)

I wish I could find some dang discoidalis for sale in Florida. I want to start a colony because it appears that they are the only legal feeder roaches to breed down here. Is there anyone on the forum that can help me with starting a colony? The one seller I found that has some said he doesn't have the permit to ship to Florida, so I think finding someone with a colony here would be helpful.


----------



## gmrpnk21 (Feb 17, 2011)

They are legal to keep in Florida right?


----------



## Violet (Feb 20, 2011)

xhexdx said:


> I've been here 15 years and the only one I see around here is _Periplaneta americana_.


What's wrong with _P. americana_? :?


----------



## gmrpnk21 (Feb 24, 2011)

So I've been talking to someone at the Florida Deartment of Agriculture over the last few days to find out the real deal with shipping LEGAL feeders to Florida, and this is what I have learned. The guy that was arrested for dubias had a permit for most of the insects he was shipping in. However, HE WROTE IN THE DUBIAS and convinced the seller in California that it was legal to ship them to him because he did indeed have a permit. He forged a legal document and lied to the shipper, and got nailed for it. You can ship any LEGAL species to Florida you want. All that you need to do is fill out the application, send a male and female of each species preserved in 70% alcohol, and pay $12.50 per species (maximum of $62.50 per permit, but the permit may include more). One guy falsifying a document and ordering an illegal species caused all the sellers to PANIC and stop shipping all roaches (legal or not) to Florida. All that was required was a little research and talking to an actual person. If you would like to call them yourself, here is a link for that particular department.http://www.freshfromflorida.com/onestop/plt/entnempath.html

Please feel free to call Dr. Greg Hodges, or the other nematologist G.B. if you doubt my information or would like to get a permit.


----------



## H. laoticus (Feb 24, 2011)

gmrpnk21 said:


> So I've been talking to someone at the Florida Deartment of Agriculture over the last few days to find out the real deal with shipping LEGAL feeders to Florida, and this is what I have learned. The guy that was arrested for dubias had a permit for most of the insects he was shipping in. However, HE WROTE IN THE DUBIAS and convinced the seller in California that it was legal to ship them to him because he did indeed have a permit. He forged a legal document and lied to the shipper, and got nailed for it. You can ship any LEGAL species to Florida you want. All that you need to do is fill out the application, send a male and female of each species preserved in 70% alcohol, and pay $12.50 per species (maximum of $62.50 per permit, but the permit may include more). One guy falsifying a document and ordering an illegal species caused all the sellers to PANIC and stop shipping all roaches (legal or not) to Florida. All that was required was a little research and talking to an actual person. If you would like to call them yourself, here is a link for that particular department.http://www.freshfromflorida.com/onestop/plt/entnempath.html
> 
> Please feel free to call Dr. Greg Hodges, or the other nematologist G.B. if you doubt my information or would like to get a permit.


Nice work!


----------



## 1Lord Of Ants1 (Feb 27, 2011)

ZephAmp said:


> They practically have a roach buffet down there.
> _Blaberus discoidalis. Blaberus craniifer. Blaberus giganteus.
> Panchlora nivea. Blatta orientalis. Periplaneta australasiae. Periplaneta americana. Periplaneta fuliginosa. Pycnoscelus surinamensis.  _
> 
> ...


Other than surinams, I have never found any of the other species of roaches that would be serve as a suitable feeder for me. The surinams keep dying on me too for some unknown reason! It may just be where I live, but I've honestly found more interesting insects in a week in North Carolina than I have here, despite all the hours I've spent hunting. Though I can certainly believe those species exist here, the trick is finding one. I'd consider my self extremely lucky finding just on P. nivea!


----------



## cacoseraph (Feb 28, 2011)

Scythemantis said:


> Florida is already hopelessly dominated by aggressive non-native species, there's absolutely NOTHING dubia roaches could possibly do to the ecology. Hell, there's already 60 or 70 types of roach living here and no evidence they've caused any harm.
> 
> Even as an environmentalist I have to disagree with the strictness of these laws, it seems like no research goes into them.


so... what?  just give up?  now even stricter laws are in place.  i helped pay for the everglades, i want to see them one day. not covered in boas, giant snails, cuban anoles, and dubia roaches



Cheshire said:


> There's also the question of whether roach parasites will live in non-native Theraphosidae...lots of parasites are very host specific, and some aren't specific. In fact, there are parasites in every Tenebrio colony...single celled organisms which live in the reproductive tract. They don't seem to cause a lot of problems.
> 
> Although, if parasites are such a big concern after a few dozen generations it kind of makes me wonder how these relatively safe Blaptica/Blaberus/Tenebrio, etc. colonies got started in the first place.
> 
> The fears over pesticides and parasites are overblown from what I know of the subject. If you isolate some newly hatched nymphs soon after they're born and before they have a chance to feed on the corpse of an adult it shouldn't be a problem.


there are lots of parasites that can hop orders.  there are even more pathogens that can do it.  most parasites and pathogens don't kill their hosts, just make them less fit.






you need a federal permit to ship roaches across state lines. lack one and still ship.... you just broke the law.  how many ppl knew that before this thread?


----------



## Venari (Feb 28, 2011)

cacoseraph said:


> you need a federal permit to ship roaches across state lines. lack one and still ship.... you just broke the law.  how many ppl knew that before this thread?


Does this apply to the recipient, or the seller?


----------



## gmrpnk21 (Mar 2, 2011)

The seller needs one, but both parties get in trouble if there isn't one. 




Venari said:


> Does this apply to the recipient, or the seller?


----------



## Digby Rigby (Mar 6, 2011)

*Shipping Roaches to Florida*

I live in California and as people know my associates ad i have been invloved wit selling roaches fr years.  There are certain roaches that we have shipped to FLorida that have been legal.  Pretty much any native or adventive species and male hissers can be shipped to Florida.  Male hissers only not female.  The people in California who shipped knew it was illegal to do so as did Derek Rader.  In fact a while ago he inquired about us shipping and was told no.  This was several years ago.  I can say the people who shipped knew it was unlawful as Did Derek Rader  who willingly and knowingly falsified paperwork because such was not legally obtainable by him.

Roaches we have sold to Florida include Panchlora nivea, Blaberus disoidales, Blaberus craniifer.  We have not sold the giant panchlora to Florida because it is a different speces even though we arent sure what one it is.

As the nations leading supplier of bulk lots of dubia we have gotten requests from Florida for them but have not done so.  There are ways to take short cuts and cut corners however smuggling is not one of them.  its like people who dont have auto insurance.  They can go 10-30 years without it but the first time something happens will cost them more than all the money they saved by not having it all those years


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## Luis (May 14, 2011)

cacoseraph said:


> so... what?  just give up?  now even stricter laws are in place.  i helped pay for the everglades, i want to see them one day. not covered in boas, giant snails, cuban anoles, and dubia roaches
> 
> 
> there are lots of parasites that can hop orders.  there are even more pathogens that can do it.  most parasites and pathogens don't kill their hosts, just make them less fit.
> ...


The threat to the Glades here is NOT non natives it is the bulldozer ,cement mixer and pollution run off esp from sugar cane plantations.

Non natives roaches esp wind up as food .


----------



## khil (May 14, 2011)

cacoseraph said:


> so... what?  just give up?  now even stricter laws are in place.  i helped pay for the everglades, i want to see them one day. not covered in feral cats, wild boars, and bulldozers.


fixed              .


----------



## SandDeku (May 14, 2011)

khil said:


> fixed              .


but I like the piggies. D; 
anywho on to a more serious matter. No offense to anyone who may read my post.... But... This whole thing sorta make me laughed badly... Not trying to be an ass. But seriously arrested for some roaches? I can't imagine that there aren't other more important subjects to get to. Like say drug dealers, thiefs, etc. 

Lol. I just think it's bs. But I don't think it was good of him to fake it. I agree its hard to find native insects that will make suitable breeders. 

You guys fail to realize that okay say I live in new jersey. You know that pine barrens tree frogs are native to nj? DO you also know that there are roaches native to nj(obviously) asides the common american roach? 

Do you also know that there are many different types of fish in nj? But am I going to find these in my yard? Heck no. A yard is a yard. Most roaches live away from homes exception of the "pest" species. Or so I been told. Anywho that's my two cents.


----------



## xhexdx (May 14, 2011)

He got arrested for forging permits, creating false documents, that kind of thing.

Luis and khil, your posts are a couple of the most ignorant I've read here lately.


----------



## baboonfan (May 14, 2011)

xhexdx said:


> I'm not trying to make excuses for this guy, but to everyone who is essentially saying 'he deserved it for breaking the law'...
> 
> ...how many of you have shipped USPS?
> 
> ...


For once I agree with your post in whole. This poor guy probably didnt know his roaches were illegal, the shipper probably didnt either. Catching roaches outside in a state like Florida has its risks. How many chemicals has the the collected specimen crawled through during its lifetime? 

I dont look down on this guy at all. It doesnt sound to me like he intended harm.

---------- Post added at 03:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:50 PM ----------




xhexdx said:


> He got arrested for forging permits, creating false documents, that kind of thing.
> 
> Luis and khil, your posts are a couple of the most ignorant I've read here lately.


Oh, I didnt read the whole article. I have heard of other people getting in trouble for recieving roaches in the past and assumed he was one of those. If he knew he was breaking the law he just might deserve a punishment.


----------



## SandDeku (May 14, 2011)

xhexdx said:


> He got arrested for forging permits, creating false documents, that kind of thing.
> 
> Luis and khil, your posts are a couple of the most ignorant I've read here lately.


I know. That's what I don't feel "bad" about. I just feel bad that he got arrested for trying to buy and sell roaches. lol.


----------



## khil (May 14, 2011)

xhexdx said:


> He got arrested for forging permits, creating false documents, that kind of thing.
> 
> Luis and khil, your posts are a couple of the most ignorant I've read here lately.


Oh you are so righteous! And sure, burmese pythons and cockroaches are way more devastating to Florida's ecosystems than are the feral cats and pigs (and let's not forget tropical deforestation).


----------



## xhexdx (May 14, 2011)

Hmm...I didn't hear anyone compare one to another, or say one was more devastating than another.

Again, you're completely missing it, but that's ok.


----------



## SandDeku (May 14, 2011)

xhexdx said:


> Hmm...I didn't hear anyone compare one to another, or say one was more devastating than another.
> 
> Again, you're completely missing it, but that's ok.


I actually find you to be quite funny. But my two cents on the whole matter is-- any species that is not native to a said area could be "destructive" if they're basic needs are met but do not have natural predators where its been introduced.  Idk if Iam making any sense. But say introducing a hissing roach to alaska and someone scolding you for it--- is pretty effed up stupid. Since I'm pretty sure alaska is an extremely cold place(obv) and won't be able to support a roach that comes from a warm climate and needs warmth to survive.


----------



## khil (May 15, 2011)

xhexdx said:


> Hmm...I didn't hear anyone compare one to another, or say one was more devastating than another.
> 
> Again, you're completely missing it, but that's ok.


My you are dense. I was saying that boars, cats, and bulldozers do way more ecological harm than the other mentioned species. How you managed to miss that and proceed to start whining on some tangent, is beyond me.


----------



## xhexdx (May 15, 2011)

SandDeku said:


> I actually find you to be quite funny. But my two cents on the whole matter is-- any species that is not native to a said area could be "destructive" if they're basic needs are met but do not have natural predators where its been introduced.  Idk if Iam making any sense. But say introducing a hissing roach to alaska and someone scolding you for it--- is pretty messed up stupid. Since I'm pretty sure alaska is an extremely cold place(obv) and won't be able to support a roach that comes from a warm climate and needs warmth to survive.


I agree, but I suppose I missed how that example relates to this thread.

Every species of roach smuggled here would do just fine in our climate.



khil said:


> My you are dense. I was saying that boars, cats, and bulldozers do way more ecological harm than the other mentioned species. How you managed to miss that and proceed to start whining on some tangent, is beyond me.


Please show me how, in your posts quoted below, you tell me what you're telling me in the post quoted above.



khil said:


> cacoseraph said:
> 
> 
> > so... what?  just give up?  now even stricter laws are in place.  i helped pay for the everglades, i want to see them one day. not covered in boas, giant snails, cuban anoles, and bulldozers
> ...





khil said:


> Oh you are so righteous! And sure, burmese pythons and cockroaches are way more devastating to Florida's ecosystems than are the feral cats and pigs (and let's not forget tropical deforestation).


So you're justifying illegal roaches because we have other animals that are more devastating?  Is that what I'm understanding you to be saying?

And you're calling *me* dense?


----------



## khil (May 15, 2011)

xhexdx said:


> I agree, but I suppose I missed how that example relates to this thread.
> 
> Every species of roach smuggled here would do just fine in our climate.
> 
> ...


No no, when I "fixed" the quote I replaced "boas, giant snails, cuban anoles" with "feral cats, wild boars, and bulldozers." You must have misread something or came across a glitch.
I did this because people are quick to blame snakes and in this case cockroaches for destroying Florida's ecosystem, and they want them illegal; if they really cared about the ecosystem and weren't a bunch of misinformed dimwitts, they would support banning things like CATS, because those have caused so much more damage to Florida's nature.

But no, they're "fuzzy and cute"! And snakes and roaches are ugly! Well, there you have it.

And I never once said I was justifying the importation of illegal roaches, you made that one up to try to defend yourself. I was actually saying that people need to look at bigger threats to Florida's ecosystem before demonizing the insect and reptile hobbyists.


----------



## xhexdx (May 15, 2011)

Ok, well, at least I have a clearer idea of what it is you were trying to convey, and I thank you for that.

My feeling on the matter:

If something isn't native or established, and there's a very high probability that it could become established if it was introduced, then it shouldn't be legal to keep there.

Just not worth the risk, imo.


----------



## SandDeku (May 16, 2011)

xhexdx said:


> I agree, but I suppose I missed how that example relates to this thread.
> 
> Every species of roach smuggled here would do just fine in our climate.
> 
> ...


Hmm well the speaking about smuggling roaches. It's related to that because say if you smuggled a roach that needs a warm climate to a cold place like alaska and its the middle of winter and not only that... say by chance its illegal to bring it in--- that would be stupid. lol.

---------- Post added at 12:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:48 AM ----------




xhexdx said:


> Ok, well, at least I have a clearer idea of what it is you were trying to convey, and I thank you for that.
> 
> My feeling on the matter:
> 
> ...


Mmm I somewhat agreed with what you say... but sorta want to add to this....

Cats can become "established" in the wild and some even have been let to roam outside homes(people do it all the time).  Though some may spay/neuter their animal one has to realize. Not everyone does or would. So just some food for thought on that part. 


But.... If its something that could potentially have many predators it wouldn't even be a problem.... A roach is often preyed upon by many other insects, reptiles, amphibians, rodents, etc. Especially the ones mentioned. Those roaches have a soft exoskeleton thus being an easy  morsel. 

So while it 'may' have some negative effects if it was loose it would also have some "possible" good effects. Think about the fact that say they're so "delicious" to many animals that instead of consuming the species they normally would due to lack of other prey animals they would give that said species that would become prey a "chance" to bloom a bit more and such. It's not like its some super breeding and super destructive species. Where it would make billions and billions of babies a year and none would be able to be eaten because its toxic or too hard shelled or something. Get it?

Though I guess I have mixed feelings on said topic.

---------- Post added at 01:04 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:58 AM ----------




khil said:


> No no, when I "fixed" the quote I replaced "boas, giant snails, cuban anoles" with "feral cats, wild boars, and bulldozers." You must have misread something or came across a glitch.
> I did this because people are quick to blame snakes and in this case cockroaches for destroying Florida's ecosystem, and they want them illegal; if they really cared about the ecosystem and weren't a bunch of misinformed dimwitts, they would support banning things like CATS, because those have caused so much more damage to Florida's nature.
> 
> But no, they're "fuzzy and cute"! And snakes and roaches are ugly! Well, there you have it.
> ...


I don't like cats at all... and I sorta get where you're going at... but believe it or not people in "nature" law enforcement are just "generally" extremely strict and tight arsed. 

I got hassled by a wildlife cop because he thought I was catching an endangered turtle species when in reality I was just catching a snapping turtle and a musk turtle.  I had my fishing liscence. State law says its legal and in reality guy came up to me and gave me attitude. In all reality I'm pretty calm and shy--- so I wouldn't really pick a fight especially with the "popo" lol. 

But this guy kinda overused his power so in a way I do get what you mean.
But to digress I shall say it goes both ways. It depends on the officer and such. For the most part they try to do their hardest.. You have to understand they are just "human" and they just wanna get their job "done". If you were doing your job and your boss told you to do something you didn't agreed with but if you didn't you'd get fired and that said job is actually a job that puts the "bacon" at your dinner table I'm pretty sure you would do whatever it takes to get it done.

Sadly that's how life goes and works. If not they'd be out of a job... But hey who knows--- I'm no expert on this topic.


----------



## xhexdx (May 16, 2011)

SandDeku said:


> But.... If its something that could potentially have many predators it wouldn't even be a problem.... A roach is often preyed upon by many other insects, reptiles, amphibians, rodents, etc. Especially the ones mentioned. Those roaches have a soft exoskeleton thus being an easy  morsel.
> 
> So while it 'may' have some negative effects if it was loose it would also have some "possible" good effects. Think about the fact that say they're so "delicious" to many animals that instead of consuming the species they normally would due to lack of other prey animals they would give that said species that would become prey a "chance" to bloom a bit more and such. It's not like its some super breeding and super destructive species. Where it would make billions and billions of babies a year and none would be able to be eaten because its toxic or too hard shelled or something. Get it?


No.  Not at all.

Very basic example:

Predator A typically eats Prey B and C.  Because Prey B and C have a natural predator, their populations remain in check, and balance is maintained.

Prey D gets smuggled in to the state, escapes, and begins reproducing.  Predator A has a new food source now, but Predator's carrying capacity hasn't changed, so what it consumes from Prey D is no longer being consumed from Prey B and C.

Now Prey B and C begin to reproduce out of control, in addition to Prey D being where it doesn't belong.

This is, of course, assuming there is a predator (or two) that will even start eating the new bug.

It's just not a good situation, no matter how you look at it.  *No* possible benefit to it.


----------



## Galapoheros (May 16, 2011)

xhexdx said:


> No.  Not at all.
> 
> Very basic example:
> 
> ...


Though I agree with your basic opinion in "no non-natives"(at least you said it was an opinion), I think in your scenario, each prey species, B, C, and D, would reduce in numbers until there were basically as much food as B and C were supplying pred A.  You may see a pred explosion, then a balance back to species B, C and D, supplying practically the same amount of food that B and C were previously.  But I think there would also be many unknowns, so goes the risk.  Maybe a slight increase of roaches liking the same habitat but also an increase in prey because of all the food.  I'm thinking that more roach species might mean more species, more than it means more roaches, that is if each species likes the same habitat.  ...hmm, interesting to think about.  Slightly related, hasn't the gov introduced several non-natives, thinking this will control that and that will control this, many times it doesn't work out but hasn't it at times?, I can't think of any examples, haven't looked into it.  Jeeez man, I go to bed too late, must-turn-off-computer.


----------



## SandDeku (May 16, 2011)

xhexdx said:


> No.  Not at all.
> 
> Very basic example:
> 
> ...


I guess you're right.  Especially thinking about the cane toad epidemic where they thought they would eat cane beetles and instead they just ate everything else and suckerpunched the gov. xD


----------



## charlesbrooks (May 17, 2011)

Introvertebrate said:


> Have you ever noticed that the species we _*really*_ like never run rampant in Florida.  I'd like to start infestations of Poecilotheria metallicas, Orchid Mantises, Day Geckos, and rare Poison Dart Frogs down there.


According to some reference books, we have Day Geckos est. in south Florida.


----------



## SandDeku (May 17, 2011)

charlesbrooks said:


> According to some reference books, we have Day Geckos est. in south Florida.


A lot of animals have been introduced around the world already. Cane toads, Walking(or talking) catfish, snakeheads(fish), red eared sliders(turtles), american bullfrogs(on the west coast of the usa if I am mistaken and europe), , chinese preying(praying) mantis, and I'm sure there are more t hat have been introduced as well. Due to poor pet care some people choose to abandon their non-native exotic pets into the wild where they "may" breed and if there are no other predators of said animal they become "highly" invasive like said species such as the cane toads, or snakeheads. Or if the species is highly prolific. Or if it consume more than other species of animals would. Say a normal toad would consume 24 crickets a week or something a cane toad would consume 2x as much. Get it?


----------



## Endagr8 (May 19, 2011)

1Lord Of Ants1 said:


> Other than surinams, I have never found any of the other species of roaches that would be serve as a suitable feeder for me. The surinams keep dying on me too for some unknown reason! *It may just be where I live, but I've honestly found more interesting insects in a week in North Carolina than I have here, despite all the hours I've spent hunting. *Though I can certainly believe those species exist here, the trick is finding one. I'd consider my self extremely lucky finding just on P. nivea!


That is very surprising. I saw extremely interesting, not to mention huge, odonates and beetles in Orlando, over the span of just a few hours of searching the perimeter of a hotel. If I lived there, I'd surely keep colonies of  those awesome house geckos and anoles! 


xhexdx said:


> Ok, well, at least I have a clearer idea of what it is you were trying to convey, and I thank you for that.
> 
> My feeling on the matter:
> 
> ...


Then you better start pushing for the legislation that would end your Floridian tarantula keeping career!


----------



## xhexdx (May 19, 2011)

Endagr8 said:


> Then you better start pushing for the legislation that would end your Floridian tarantula keeping career!


It'll end anyway, once I move back to Hawaii.


----------



## SandDeku (May 19, 2011)

xhexdx said:


> It'll end anyway, once I move back to Hawaii.


Awe you won't be keeping any exotic pets anymore? D: that sucks.... Does hawaii even allow people to have pets?


----------



## xhexdx (May 19, 2011)

Yes, they allow you to keep pets.

I'll keep chameleons instead, and probably start a saltwater tank or two.


----------



## Sooner (May 22, 2011)

xhexdx said:


> Yes, they allow you to keep pets.
> 
> I'll keep chameleons instead, and probably start a saltwater tank or two.


Can you keep native inverts in Hawaii??  There are endemic carnivorous inchworms.


----------



## xhexdx (May 22, 2011)

Yeah, I can keep those if I wanted to.

I'd prefer to look for the happy-faced spiders though.


----------



## redrumpslump (May 22, 2011)

When are you moving to Florida?

Matt


----------



## fantasticp (May 25, 2011)

gmrpnk21 said:


> The seller needs one, but both parties get in trouble if there isn't one.


You are assuming a return address.....


----------



## SandDeku (May 26, 2011)

xhexdx said:


> Yeah, I can keep those if I wanted to.
> 
> I'd prefer to look for the happy-faced spiders though.


happy faced spiders? and saltwater tanks? GET A PUFFER!  Those are god dang awesome!

P.s. don't forget to take pictures and s how us. kay? ;c


----------



## Luis (May 29, 2011)

Endagr8 said:


> That is very surprising. I saw extremely interesting, not to mention huge, odonates and beetles in Orlando, over the span of just a few hours of searching the perimeter of a hotel. If I lived there, I'd surely keep colonies of  those awesome house geckos and anoles!
> 
> 
> Then you better start pushing for the legislation that would end your Floridian tarantula keeping career!


"Then you better start pushing for the legislation that would end your Floridian tarantula keeping career"

Well put . He seems like a self righteous hypocrite.

---------- Post added at 07:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:51 PM ----------




khil said:


> My you are dense. I was saying that boars, cats, and bulldozers do way more ecological harm than the other mentioned species. How you managed to miss that and proceed to start whining on some tangent, is beyond me.


Nothing in ths state as far as non natives can hold a candle to the disaster that pollution run off is causing and the out right development.

Considering we are a jump away from the Carribeans I imagine many non natives like Cuban treefrogs, Knight anoles. Brown anoles ,house geckos and few others have been here hundreds of yrs.

Huge mats of trees etc wash up all the time by shore in Miami. 

Like the saying goes "The python didn't kill the Florida panther but the development did".

"The rare monitor hasn't hurt the borrowing owl but the golf course has"

Don't misconstrue what I am saying I don't want non natives but I also know the real cause of the dwindling fauna and it's PC to go after exotic pets while the real cause is ignored.

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xhexdx said:


> He got arrested for forging permits, creating false documents, that kind of thing.
> 
> Luis and khil, your posts are a couple of the most ignorant I've read here lately.


Hmmm I think you need to open your eyes a tad and stop pulling the FWC /PETA party line.

Roach is the least of the dangers the Glades have.

Have you ever actually been to the Glades and spoken to officials who work there?

Now the new Gov wants to drill for oil in Glades area and give out rock mining permits but putting that aside humans are the real threat to native fauna.

Look at the Indigo snake and what a disaster golf courses have been for them.

"EPA Must Enforce Anti-Pollution Rules, Florida Has Failed To Protect Everglades"
" "There is no possibility of reversing the damage that has been done to the Everglades, and there is only the chance to preserve what remains in its current state"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/26/judge-alan-gold-epa-florida-everglades_n_854075.html

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khil said:


> Oh you are so righteous! And sure, burmese pythons and cockroaches are way more devastating to Florida's ecosystems than are the feral cats and pigs (and let's not forget tropical deforestation).



Feral pigs here are a big industry as far as hunting fees and some places you must hire a local guide to hunt on the land.
I wonder if the state actually wants to eradicate them all.

I don't want to sound like a lobbyiest for non natives lol but they are the least of the problems facing fauna here but it is not wise for FWC and politicians here to go after the endless unregulated Florida pollution run off and deforestation.

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Introvertebrate said:


> Have you ever noticed that the species we _*really*_ like never run rampant in Florida.  I'd like to start infestations of Poecilotheria metallicas, Orchid Mantises, Day Geckos, and rare Poison Dart Frogs down there.


Lol good post. I have seen day geckos in Keys which is not far from me.

I fish by Glades like once a month and still looking for albino or piebald ball python lol but no such luck.

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ZephAmp said:


> I beg to differ.
> I went to Florida for ten days last spring. I was able to find hundreds of _Pycnoscelus surinamensis_ and about 30 or 40 _Periplaneta australasiae_, just by digging around in some leaf litter on public property. Somebody could very easily start a colony of either and use them as feeders; P. surinamensis are very bulky and ungodly easy to grow.
> (For anyone interested I was in Ft. Lauderdale.)


I to have found countless types of roaches by Glades ,beach's even my backyard under stone tiles and side of water troughs and saw some pretty green roach's by Key West think read here they are called banana roach.


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## xhexdx (Jun 2, 2011)

Luis said:


> "I to have found countless types of roaches by Glades ,beach's even my backyard under stone tiles and side of water troughs and saw some pretty green roach's by Key West think read here they are called banana roach.


They're Panchlora nivea, and are already considered established here.  Nymphs are brown, adults are green.



Luis said:


> Hmmm I think you need to open your eyes a tad and stop pulling the FWC /PETA party line.
> 
> Roach is the least of the dangers the Glades have.


Where did I argue that chasing roach smugglers was the most important danger in Florida?

I mean, if you really want to go trace it all the way back to the _real_ problem, it's us.


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