# Most venomous list!!!



## dayredfern (Oct 21, 2006)

Hey has any1 got any idea of the top 10 most venomous tarantulas??? just like to know where certain 1s would rank lol

if any1 has any ideas then post it ere!

Thanks
dayredfern


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## Sarah.S (Oct 21, 2006)

mmmm to little proper detailed research has been done for this kinda thing but based on the little that has been found out I can give a rough top 3
1 the australians
2 the pokies
3 gets in a mess from here I would guess either the other asians or the africans though.

most of the research into T venom has been to do with finding possible cures and so on in the venom so there is very little info avalible, but based on bite reports and effects this seems to be the basic potancy structure that we can work out so far.


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## becca81 (Oct 21, 2006)

A "hot" species in terms of tarantulas is very different than a "hot" species in terms of snakes (for example).

The species that are considered to be "hot" in terms of tarantulas include _Poecilotheria spp._, _Heteroscodra maculata_, and _Stromatopelma calceatum_.

It's good to note that there are no recorded deaths due to a tarantula bite, but the venom of some species can produce more uncomfortable effects than the venom of others.


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## sick4x4 (Oct 21, 2006)

listen to becca...with most t's, it's the allergic reaction that we really note...but if you are looking for a LDS score i dont belive they rate very high:?


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## Thoth (Oct 22, 2006)

sick4x4 said:


> listen to becca...with most t's, it's the allergic reaction that we really note...but if you are looking for a LDS score i dont belive they rate very high:?


No its not the allergic effects of the venom, its debatable whether they t venom even causes an allergic reaction. Any effects are a direct results of the venom components.

In addition to those mentioned by Becca also Haplopelma lividum (possibly the entire genus), and P.murinus 

LD50 and kill times are not a real indicator of toxicity to humans since t venom affects mice (model organism of choice for such studies) differently than humans. 

Though here is table of t venom toxicity


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## Potemkin (Oct 22, 2006)

For those in the know, does Selenocosmia really possess venom equal to or greater than Poecilotheria?


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## james41777 (Oct 22, 2006)

I'd say:
Poecilotheria/Heteroscodra/Pterinochilus


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## Thoth (Oct 22, 2006)

This paper is the only one I've ever come across dealing the effects of bites of Australian ts on people (and dogs). People suffered moderate to severe pain, all the dogs died.


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## Potemkin (Oct 22, 2006)

Thoth said:


> This paper is the only one I've ever come across dealing the effects of bites of Australian ts on people (and dogs). People suffered moderate to severe pain, all the dogs died.


Wow, are there any comparative reports on other theraphosid venom on canines?


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## sick4x4 (Oct 22, 2006)

Thoth said:


> No its not the allergic effects of the venom, its debatable whether they t venom even causes an allergic reaction. Any effects are a direct results of the venom components.
> 
> In addition to those mentioned by Becca also Haplopelma lividum (possibly the entire genus), and P.murinus
> 
> ...


i was going on the allergic reaction only because as far as i have read t venom doesnt really effect humans....and the only cases i have seen where t invenomations caused any ill effects was because someone had a reation to it not because the venom caused it?????? maybe im reading it wrong


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## Thoth (Oct 22, 2006)

The reactions were generally a direct effect of the venom. T venom does effect humans just not as strongly as a insects or even small vertabrates. 

The main effector or toxin in t venom are small peptide ion channel inhibitors, maybe due to the difference in protein sequence of human ion channels from that of other animals, the peptides cannot bind as tightly so is less toxic to humans. This is just an educated guess on my part.

@Potemkin, I don't believe there any other reports on the effects of t venom on canines.


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## Potemkin (Oct 22, 2006)

Thoth said:


> @Potemkin, I don't believe there any other reports on the effects of t venom on canines.


So really we can't make any comparison between selenocosmia and other strongly venomous tarantulas beyond "they both hurt a hell of a lot"? I mean, no doubt this puts them up there as some of the most venomous T, but I'm not convinced that they are more venomous than some of the other OWers.


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## brandi (Oct 22, 2006)

I found some info on this website about the actual venom composition.  http://www.venomdoc.com/ 

Somebody who's bio-chemistry is a little stronger than mine might be able to make some sense of this.  

That or you could just re-post your question on his forum too.  Let us know what you find out.


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## Brian S (Oct 22, 2006)

I am not 100% sure on this but I dont think there is LD50 on tarantulas.


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## Thoth (Oct 22, 2006)

brandi said:


> I found some info on this website about the actual venom composition.  http://www.venomdoc.com/
> 
> Somebody who's bio-chemistry is a little stronger than mine might be able to make some sense of this.
> 
> That or you could just re-post your question on his forum too.  Let us know what you find out.


What he was talking primarily was spider (aranaemorphs, "True Spiders") venom depite their close relationship tarantulas, the venoms are rather different. Though the spider venom peptides mentioned on the second half of the page are somewhat similiar to those found in tarantula venom. 

If anyone is interested in reading more, here are two good journal articles (good science backgrounded needed though): 

Escoubas P, Rash L.; "Tarantulas: eight-legged pharmacists and combinatorial chemists." Toxicon. 2004 Apr;43(5):555-74. 

Escoubas P, Corzo G, Whiteley BJ, Celerier ML, Nakajima T. "Matrix-assisted laser desorption/ionization time-of-flight mass spectrometry and high-performance liquid chromatography study of quantitative and qualitative variation in tarantula spider venoms." Rapid Commun Mass Spectrom. 2002;16(5):403-13


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## Marilyn (Oct 22, 2006)

Potemkin said:


> For those in the know, does Selenocosmia really possess venom equal to or greater than Poecilotheria?



check out this site...

http://www.thebts.co.uk/selenocosmia.htm


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## ShadowBlade (Oct 22, 2006)

Um... 
Poecilotheria
Pterinochilus
Selenocosmia
Stromatopelma
Heteroscodra

Are some of the 'more potent' genus.
And there are reports of like Haplopelma schmidti being pretty bad.


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