# Need help. Very aggressive burmese python



## beccahosierr (Mar 16, 2012)

This python is only about 2 feet long. I bought him from some guy that couldnt care for him. This snake is extremely aggressive. I do have alot of expirience with aggressive snakes, but im sure I have seen rattlesnakes with better temperments. I have tried everything to calm him down. I dont know what else I should do. Any input would be extremely helpful. 

He has already tried to strike at me countless number of times. Even if I just walk in the general area where his tank is, he starts hissing and striking the glass. Tank maintenance is close to impossible. I have to cover him with a towel to move him. I really need some help. This is my dream snake that I have always wanted, but I have kids in the house and someone is bound to get hurt. 

I would like to know if there is anything I can do to calm him down.


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## Shrike (Mar 16, 2012)

Did the snake demonstrate this behavior before you bought it?  If you feel that having it is a risk maybe you should see if there are any reputable rescue organizations in your area.

If  you choose to keep it, you might consider getting a pair of appropriately sized tongs and a snake hook.  These items will allow you to keep the snake at a safe distance.  I'm guessing its previous owner didn't handle it much.  With persistent, gentle handling, it might mellow out over time (or it might not).  You'll probably get bitten over the course of this process.

I'm hoping Pitbulllady will chime in.  She has a lot of experience with large constrictors.


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## pitbulllady (Mar 16, 2012)

MOST, if not all, baby Burms are bitey.  In fact, that's pretty much true of most python species, period, and at two feet, this is definitely just a baby.  The key is patience and perseverance.  That means handling as often as possible, even if it means getting bitten.  Use a towel or snake bag to pick him up and hold him, since it not only offers some protection against those needle-like teeth, but gives the snake some sense of security, too.  Don't let him scare you, because once he realizes that he can scare you into leaving him alone, your job of taming him will get a lot harder.  You also need to check the temperature in his enclosure, since too-high a temp will make almost any snake act either aggressively or panicky, or both.  He should have a warm end around 85-90 degrees, tops, with a cool end about 10-15 degrees lower, so he can thermoregulate.  Have you provided him with a hide box?  Young snakes are defensive because they are on the menu of pretty much every carnivore on the planet, and they know it.  The snake is hissing and striking because it feels threatened and vulnerable.  A hide box on the cool end of his cage will help alleviate this.  Make sure his cage is large enough for him to stretch out but no so huge that he's "lost".  Put his cage for right now in a "low traffic" area, and give him time to settle in.  Keep in mind that you could be dealing with an animal that actually has been mistreated, even if it has no visible injuries.  You said the guy who owned it couldn't care for it, so who knows what he did to it?  Has it been properly fed?  A hungry snake is often an aggressive snake.  Does it have mites?  Mites can drive a snake nuts; they can't scratch, after all!

pitbulllady

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## Ben Oliver (Mar 16, 2012)

i would agree with pitbulllady she has given you almost all the information that you will need to raise a snake. there is one other thing you should try to take to a vet to see if it has parasites. the bugs can make it a little more touchy. and you also need to remember that the snake can get to 20' long and bigger and also weigh a few hundred pounds. you will be bitten many times by your snake and it will hurt and bleed a lot. do not pull your hand out of its mouth you will break off the teeth in your hand or arm then its even more pain to have them removed ( even if you do it yourself ) but you can't fix the snakes mouth. i have a nasty king snake that will try to eat my finger even after i feed it a small rat. a feeding response bite is worse than a aggression bite you will see ( soon )

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## The Snark (Mar 16, 2012)

pitbulllady said:


> MOST, if not all, baby Burms are bitey.  In fact, that's pretty much true of most python species, period, and at two feet, this is definitely just a baby.  The key is patience and perseverance.  That means handling as often as possible, even if it means getting bitten.  Use a towel or snake bag to pick him up and hold him, since it not only offers some protection against those needle-like teeth, but gives the snake some sense of security, too.  Don't let him scare you, because once he realizes that he can scare you into leaving him alone, your job of taming him will get a lot harder.  You also need to check the temperature in his enclosure, since too-high a temp will make almost any snake act either aggressively or panicky, or both.  He should have a warm end around 85-90 degrees, tops, with a cool end about 10-15 degrees lower, so he can thermoregulate.  Have you provided him with a hide box?  Young snakes are defensive because they are on the menu of pretty much every carnivore on the planet, and they know it.  The snake is hissing and striking because it feels threatened and vulnerable.  A hide box on the cool end of his cage will help alleviate this.  Make sure his cage is large enough for him to stretch out but no so huge that he's "lost".  Put his cage for right now in a "low traffic" area, and give him time to settle in.  Keep in mind that you could be dealing with an animal that actually has been mistreated, even if it has no visible injuries.  You said the guy who owned it couldn't care for it, so who knows what he did to it?  Has it been properly fed?  A hungry snake is often an aggressive snake.  Does it have mites?  Mites can drive a snake nuts; they can't scratch, after all!
> 
> pitbulllady


Exactly. Protect it from itself. Let it gain confidence.
If it is aggressive to the degree of self destruction you can force lower it's body temperature. This must be done cautiously in gradient stages over a period of several days. When it's body temperature gets just low enough it will become laconic. However, this will interfere with it's feeding. When we have rescue subjects like this they are usually isolated and kept in the dark around 70 degrees, increasing the temperature to 80 long enough for it to feed.  Keeping it well fed and giving it several places to hide, it will adjust over time at it's own pace. I'd suggest, while protecting it, enjoy it being active while you can. Healthy well fed adults are laconic to the point of boring with uneducated visitors asking if it is stuffed.

PS Do NOT introduce it to other snakes until it is calmed and more confident. A python can easily maim or kill other constrictors with it's powerful bulldog like nips and bites.

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## beccahosierr (Mar 17, 2012)

Theodore guy had never held him before. He said he fed him in his cage ( which is a big no no). He had no heat source for him. Had him on some sort of pine bedding. And no water bowl. I was able to fix all of that. The snake has tolerated me holding him twice so far. Every other time he strikes continuously.  I have been bitten by pythons and boas before, I am aware what it feels like. Haha hurts pretty bad. I have him in my T room where its nice and quiet.  He does have a hide box, but he won't use it for some odd reason. I have already checked him for mouth rot and everything.  I am planning on taking him into the vet for a check up next week. I'm definitely aware of the size he will get. I have an extra room a am planning to make a tarrarium out of. I have always wanted a berm ever since I started handling snakes a few years ago. I usually hold him until he stops striking at me. Is that good? Or stressing him out?


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## pitbulllady (Mar 17, 2012)

beccahosierr said:


> Theodore guy had never held him before. He said he fed him in his cage ( which is a big no no). He had no heat source for him. Had him on some sort of pine bedding. And no water bowl. I was able to fix all of that. The snake has tolerated me holding him twice so far. Every other time he strikes continuously.  I have been bitten by pythons and boas before, I am aware what it feels like. Haha hurts pretty bad. I have him in my T room where its nice and quiet.  He does have a hide box, but he won't use it for some odd reason. I have already checked him for mouth rot and everything.  I am planning on taking him into the vet for a check up next week. I'm definitely aware of the size he will get. I have an extra room a am planning to make a tarrarium out of. I have always wanted a berm ever since I started handling snakes a few years ago. I usually hold him until he stops striking at me. Is that good? Or stressing him out?


Holding him until he stops striking is good.  He needs to learn that A)he can't scare you into getting what HE wants, and B)you're not going to hurt HIM, and this is the only way to accomplish this.  Sounds to me that the snake was abused before you got him, actually.  Pine shavings are toxic to some degree to reptiles, so who knows what effect they've had on him?  No water, no heat souce-the snake is fortunate to be alive!  I'm guessing the guy didn't have it long, or it certainly would be showing a lot more issues than it is now.  One thing you will want to be certain of is that the snake doen't have an intestinal impaction from ingesting pine shavings, since shavings of any kind can stick to prey items and be swallowed along with the food.  I use aspen in some of my cages, but I feed the snakes outside of their cages in a plastic tub with no substrate.  Seconding what benoliver said, the striking you see inside the cage could be a feeding response, since the snake has been fed inside the cage, and calms down when you are holding it.  And yes, feeding response bites are MUCH worse than defensive bites, since a hungry snake won't let go once it's sunk its teeth in.  That fact is one of the most-compelling arguements against that horrible incident in Florida a few years ago that really sparked the push for snake bans, when a Burm allegedly killed a toddler. The child in question had multiple bites all over her body, which indicates a scared snake striking repeatedly, rather than a snake trying to overpower what it considers prey.  A hungry Boa or Python will latch on and you will have to pour something nasty, like vinegar, into its mouth to get it to let go.

LOL, Snark, you're dead-on right about adult Burms being "laconic"!  That's why they are so popular at reptile shows; you can take one out and put it on a table, and it will just lie there, not moving. I've seen people also ask the owner if the snake was dead, or even if it was real, and more than once overheard people insist that the snake was a "fake" after touching it and getting no response at all.  A few years ago, on the popular Discovery Channel series "Dirty Jobs", host Mike Rowe visited the Snake Farm in TX, which is a zoo that features reptiles.  They had a huge albino Burm that they would take out every morning before the facility opened and place him on a sort of ledge inside the gift shop, and the snake would just stay there. All Day.  People would come up and pet it and touch it, not even realizing it was a live animal, something that Mike Rowe found very amusing.  He compared the snake to a statue of Buddah that people would rub for good luck and he was surprised that it had any scales left, from so many people rubbing it every day.

pitbulllady

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## Sesame Sam (Mar 17, 2012)

Lots of sound advice here. I agree that its mostly persistence with handling that will calm him down. On another note you may also want to look into tap training. Its always a good idea with larger snakes, even if its male and isn't the largest it would still be a benefit.


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## The Snark (Mar 17, 2012)

With it not taking to a hide, that seems to be very common. They get nervous and want to keep an eye on the action. There are hide boxes attached to the walls in the communal enclosure but the younger ones always prefer to coil up on top of the boxes. That is a key note with hides. The younger and more nervous snakes like to climb up to high places. Once up there they tend to calm down a bit. If we get one that is too aggressive for it's own good it just gets stuffed into a bag which is kept in a cool place. We then take the bags out, put them in the sun for a while, then dump the snake out in a very small kill enclosure with a rat or two. Once it has eaten, if it calms down it gets to go into the communal enclosure. If it is still bite happy it goes back into the bag.

Dealing with the vice grip munch is usually pretty easy. The idea is to grab the end of it's tail, squeeze and shake. This almost always gets them to let go. The bad part is they like to hide their other end under the coils. We have a routine for that where there is usually an auxiliary person or two about. If someone gets grabbed and you can't find the tail they jump in and quickly flip the snake over to get at it's tail.

The communal enclosure. Note the younger snakes are up on the shelves while the adults just laze on the ground. None of these snakes are handled regularly, but they are all quite calm and passive just from getting used to human presence and regular feeding. A stroll through this enclosure like I did to take these shots puts your head within a few inches of them and you do not want one of them mistaking your ear as an exotic dessert dish. 






Here are the youngsters, the younger they are, the higher up they like to climb.


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## pitbulllady (Mar 17, 2012)

Wow, I immediately noticed that gorgeous hypomelanistic Burm stretched out along the back of the shelf in the first pic, along with a Retic all but buried under Burms down in the left corner of the enclosure.  That hypo would be worth a pretty penny here in the US if it were still legal to import them by the time the paperwork cleared.

pitbulllady


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## The Snark (Mar 18, 2012)

pitbulllady said:


> Wow, I immediately noticed that gorgeous hypomelanistic Burm stretched out along the back of the shelf in the first pic, along with a Retic all but buried under Burms down in the left corner of the enclosure.  That hypo would be worth a pretty penny here in the US if it were still legal to import them by the time the paperwork cleared.
> 
> pitbulllady


Shhhhh! Let the clowns running that place get wind of ready $$$$ and poof goes the python.

What I find enjoyable is wandering around in that enclosure. As long as I don't touch any snake they are completely docile. However, about half or them will take serious offense to the slightest touch.

Could you give me a little run down on hypomelanastic?


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## burmish101 (Mar 18, 2012)

Ive had good luck calming down larger wc pythons (im a retic guy) by just working with them gently and very slowly. I've had my share of stitches over the years mostly due to my a.d.d. during feedings lol, babies will be easy enough though I agree with the above posters just work with it. If it bites its only a baby and wont do anything that harmfull to you, I dont think I have any scars from the smaller ones that have bitten me in the past (2-7ft).


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## The Snark (Mar 18, 2012)

burmish101 said:


> Ive had good luck calming down larger wc pythons (im a retic guy) by just working with them gently and very slowly. I've had my share of stitches over the years mostly due to my a.d.d. during feedings lol, babies will be easy enough though I agree with the above posters just work with it. If it bites its only a baby and wont do anything that harmfull to you, I dont think I have any scars from the smaller ones that have bitten me in the past (2-7ft).


Errr..... a 7 footer can take a finger off!


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## pitbulllady (Mar 18, 2012)

The Snark said:


> Errr..... a 7 footer can take a finger off!


I've been bitten by lots of 7-foot pythons and boas, and still have all my digits.  They do not have the jaw power to break bones, and their teeth are needle-like, designed to puncture, not slice and cut.  I really have serious doubts of any snake actually being able to severe digits.  Now a big monitor, yes, but not a snake.  Even that bite(feeding response, too)I got a few years back from a big Emerald Tree Boa, which was by far the worst bite I've ever gotten from a non-venomous snake due to the length of their teeth(MUCH longer than a Retic or Burm's teeth)only made deep punctures and didn't come close to removing any fingers.  I have to wonder if the "severed finger" thing didn't originate from some panicky snake hunter having an angry python latch onto a finger, and the guy cutting off his own finger with a knife to get loose.  I've known people to do that after they thought they'd been bitten by a venomous snake, to "stop the venom from spreading", doing more harm to themselves than the snake would have even if it had been venomous.

pitbulllady


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## Tim Benzedrine (Mar 18, 2012)

Nobody has suggested the obvious solution yet. If the snake will not tame, taking it and releasing it in the Florida Everglades is always an option....

_Ducks and runs for cover_

Reactions: Like 3


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## The Snark (Mar 18, 2012)

pitbulllady said:


> I've been bitten by lots of 7-foot pythons and boas, and still have all my digits.  They do not have the jaw power to break bones, and their teeth are needle-like, designed to puncture, not slice and cut.  I really have serious doubts of any snake actually being able to severe digits.  Now a big monitor, yes, but not a snake.  Even that bite(feeding response, too)I got a few years back from a big Emerald Tree Boa, which was by far the worst bite I've ever gotten from a non-venomous snake due to the length of their teeth(MUCH longer than a Retic or Burm's teeth)only made deep punctures and didn't come close to removing any fingers.  I have to wonder if the "severed finger" thing didn't originate from some panicky snake hunter having an angry python latch onto a finger, and the guy cutting off his own finger with a knife to get loose.  I've known people to do that after they thought they'd been bitten by a venomous snake, to "stop the venom from spreading", doing more harm to themselves than the snake would have even if it had been venomous.
> 
> pitbulllady


Quite correct. Python jaws can't crush bones as a general rule. In the case of the guy I met who lost 2 1/2 fingers from a bite it was due to the staph infection setting into the bones and devascularization. The amputation was done by a surgeon. Those teeth are designed to hold and shred the victim and are extremely effective in that capacity. The wounds are often difficult to debride due to tissue damage and usually loaded with a vast spectrum of bacteria.

My apologies for my sensationalist reaction. The bottom line is you don't want a python that is angry or hungry, especially a hefty one up around 7 foot, hanging on to any part of your anatomy. I don't have any point of references however to the (probably) more placid tame ones and the ones I have encountered are highly competitive with others in their enclosures and their food is often wild caught and usually pretty dirty.


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## beccahosierr (Mar 20, 2012)

Thank you guys for the responses. I am currently holding Him right now. He struck at me twice while pulling him out of his enclosure, and has only hissed at me a couple times after that. One more question though, he keeps rubbing his nose on everything,  almost like he is nudging it. I know he is not about to shed anytime soon. He rubs it pretty hard too. I'm affraid he might hurt himself by doing that. I noticed it yesterday when I went to check on him. He was rubbing his nose pretty hard against the screen top. I know most of the time this is shedding behavior,  bit in this case it's not. Any ideas?


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## voldemort (Mar 20, 2012)

might be some sort of parasites, which could be the reason for it being so feisty.

BTW, congrats with the development, don't forget to keep us posted.


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## The Snark (Mar 20, 2012)

beccahosierr said:


> Thank you guys for the responses. I am currently holding Him right now. He struck at me twice while pulling him out of his enclosure, and has only hissed at me a couple times after that. One more question though, he keeps rubbing his nose on everything,  almost like he is nudging it. I know he is not about to shed anytime soon. He rubs it pretty hard too. I'm affraid he might hurt himself by doing that. I noticed it yesterday when I went to check on him. He was rubbing his nose pretty hard against the screen top. I know most of the time this is shedding behavior,  bit in this case it's not. Any ideas?


I've seen this behavior but have no idea why. When noted, if it keeps it up it gets stuffed in a sack where it can't injure itself. I've examined a Kukri minutely doing that and used tape to try and spot parasites but found none. If you find out what gives, please post.


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## beccahosierr (Mar 20, 2012)

It usually happens after I put him back. I have noticed it a few other times though. Could it be stress? Or maybe he doesn't like the oils on my skin. Or scent?


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## Trippinwithsnakes (Jun 29, 2016)

This question is for pitbullady i have a golden child tiger reticulated python who is around 8 to 9 foot i got him from a friend of mine who got him from a reptile pet shop who they got from the original owner the reptile shop was terrified of him my friend has had him for a short time but didnt handle him much after he got a full weight bite from him sending him to the hospital to get staples and stiches i have had him three days and he is the most aggressive retic i have ever come across i read the advice you gave for the guy with the burm my question is what is the best and safest way to tame him down he was most definitely miss treated as far as i know he has no mites me and my friend clean cages very regularly his temps and humidity have been good my biggest concern is i dont have anyone to assist me all the time and at this size a bite is dangerous enough to cause hospitalization i plan on getting some welding gloves to stop his teeth from going into my flesh but he is throwing full weight strikes i will not get rid of him i will keep him forever he has been passed around and mistreated enough he is a twice proven breeder and i do plan on breeding him next year maybe 2 years what can i safely do to tame him down all my retics,burms,carpets,and boas i have raised from babies he is the first sub adult retic i have gotten and was abused no less i just wanna tame him down as much as he can be without being seriously injured any advice helps thanks


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## shining (Jun 29, 2016)

Trippinwithsnakes said:


> This question is for pitbullady i have a golden child tiger reticulated python who is around 8 to 9 foot i got him from a friend of mine who got him from a reptile pet shop who they got from the original owner the reptile shop was terrified of him my friend has had him for a short time but didnt handle him much after he got a full weight bite from him sending him to the hospital to get staples and stiches i have had him three days and he is the most aggressive retic i have ever come across i read the advice you gave for the guy with the burm my question is what is the best and safest way to tame him down he was most definitely miss treated as far as i know he has no mites me and my friend clean cages very regularly his temps and humidity have been good my biggest concern is i dont have anyone to assist me all the time and at this size a bite is dangerous enough to cause hospitalization i plan on getting some welding gloves to stop his teeth from going into my flesh but he is throwing full weight strikes i will not get rid of him i will keep him forever he has been passed around and mistreated enough he is a twice proven breeder and i do plan on breeding him next year maybe 2 years what can i safely do to tame him down all my retics,burms,carpets,and boas i have raised from babies he is the first sub adult retic i have gotten and was abused no less i just wanna tame him down as much as he can be without being seriously injured any advice helps thanks


That is the longest sentence ever.

Why not make your own thread for this? It'll get more attention than a random grave digging comment on a 4 year old thread.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Galapoheros (Jun 30, 2016)

Kind of an old thread but my experience is that the disposition is genetic or has stuck for some reason.


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## The Snark (Jun 30, 2016)

Lower the temperature below 60 F. You can go down to 45 F. See how it acts after 24 hours. It's very easy to regulate their temperament by the temperature.

Nobody would dare to go in this enclosure during the middle of the day during the hot season.






That would be masochism bordering on suicidal.

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## Chris LXXIX (Jun 30, 2016)

The Snark said:


> Nobody would dare to go in this enclosure during the middle of the day during the hot season.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I would, without problems. They aren't _O.hannah_, but lovely playful overgrown nerds :-s

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## Blackout14 (Jun 30, 2016)

Hook training is your freind and no I'm not talking about trying to pick the snake up with it.  With large burms retics and what have you first thing in the cage should be a long hook.  Touch the snake with it first.  Then I would use it to rub along its side for a second maybe just touch his head so they knew it wasn't food and they knew they weren't getting fed.  Then I almost never had a problem going into a cage after one and I had 2 over 15ft at one point.  Part of it is confidence like was stated if they know they can scare you off then they win but if you go in steady and not cautiously after some hook training most of the time it's no problem.  But you will always have that one that you can never fully trust. As for your freind getting stitches sounds like he tried to rip her off him and tore skin.  2 tricks to getting em off you.  One is grab directly behind the jaws and squeeze Farley hard.  Not enough to crush it but harder then you think they are pretty strong and flexible and they will most of the time let go. Keep a bottle of cheep booze handy like whisky or gin and if grabbing them behind the jaws fails this will almost always work dribble a bit into their mouth and they will let go.  I only ever had one that would not let go I had someone else with me and ended up sitting on the floor for ten minutes till she decided I wasn't edible but I would never go into their cages without doing above have a bottle of whisky nearby and a big knife for a worst case scenario when they get bigger.  At 8 ft she's gonna hurt but it ain't gonna kill you get in their and get er done.  My first passion for a very long time was large reptiles before ts before I had my daughter and diddnt want her to get eaten haha


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## Blackout14 (Jun 30, 2016)

The Snark said:


> Lower the temperature below 60 F. You can go down to 45 F. See how it acts after 24 hours. It's very easy to regulate their temperament by the temperature.
> 
> Nobody would dare to go in this enclosure during the middle of the day during the hot season.
> 
> ...


They are all burms and little ones at that they don't gang up on you I would go in there no problem


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## The Snark (Jun 30, 2016)

Blackout14 said:


> They are all burms and little ones at that they don't gang up on you I would go in there no problem


I have spent quite a bit of time in there within striking distance of several. Caution, move slowly, having someone else in there with me, no problem. The only real prob that arises is when they are heated up and start moving around. When just lazing about like picture on a rare occasion one may try a nip if you get too close. The problems exacerbate when they are hot and feeling feisty, ranging about, curiously poking their nose into everything. Then it's nip city.
There are 3 or 4 in there that are a pain in the tukus. That one right near my head seems to nip for fun and several, usually down on the ground, will fire at you on general principles. Never could figure that.

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## Blackout14 (Jun 30, 2016)

The Snark said:


> I have spent quite a bit of time in there within striking distance of several. Caution, move slowly, having someone else in there with me, no problem. The only real prob that arises is when they are heated up and start moving around. When just lazing about like picture on a rare occasion one may try a nip if you get too close. The problems exacerbate when they are hot and feeling feisty, ranging about, curiously poking their nose into everything. Then it's nip city.
> There are 3 or 4 in there that are a pain in the tukus. That one right near my head seems to nip for fun and several, usually down on the ground, will fire at you on general principles. Never could figure that.


Definatly feistier when they are warm my point was those guys are small enough they woukdnt scare me in the least to go in when they are warned up minus a few bites lol.  But yes when they are cooler generally things are calmer haha.  We're do you live that enclosure is pretty awesome for burms to be able to be outside


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## The Snark (Jul 1, 2016)

Hey. No offense meant here. Not meaning to be acerbic at all and not aimed at you, @Blackout14 . I just came back from a bike ride to cool off and calm down.

Okay, the place is one of the snake farms of N. Thailand. Right now they have about 1200 snakes, about 1/3 of which are venomous and 1/4 of which are viewable by the public. The snakes all live in the natural climate if not environment. No synthetic environment and climate terrariums. 

The aggressive python. This is one way to bring in the tourist $$$. I dislike it myself. When they do shows to demonstrate bite happy snakes, the pythons are always the stars. The Ptyas are more bite happy but far too fast to contain. And of course, nobody there, snake pros all, demonstrate with venomous snakes. They aren't stupid.
They take a few pythons and put them in dark canvas sacks in the sun until their body temperature is up around 100F. Then put a snake out in the ring in the amphitheater. Warmed up like that, pythons act identical to western rattlesnakes. Get near the head and nip city. Period, paragraph, always. And the tourists all try to get a picture of it in the middle of a bite. The handlers actually much prefer the far more docile and predictable Kaouthais. The pythons don't telegraph. It's always, when is that next wham coming?.

Now the rant. ALL the containments have one or two, and in the case of the heftier pythons, three draw bolts on the doors. And each door has a padlock as well. The bolts to keep the snakes in, the padlocks to keep the _*'I would go in there'*_ crowd out. All day, every day, they troop through and make the lives of everyone who works there a living hell.
-The Siamensis pit and the small Kaouthai pit, both 2 meters deep. Both had to have heavy 1/4 inch mesh screens over the top of the entire enclosure to deal with the _*'I would go in there'*_ crowd. Some jerkoff jumped into the Siamensis pit, squatted down and threw gravel at the snakes. The tourist police gave everyone unholy hell and demanded stiff fines (kickbacks). The GREAT WORD OF THE LAND: THOU SHALT NOT GIVE THAILAND A BAD RAP AND FRIGHTEN THE TOURISTS!!!!!
***The tourism bureau is so powerful that it ordered the department of irrigation to open all the canal waterways so the new years festival would have unlimited water to bucket at people. Right in the middle of a drought with the rice farmers denied water rights.***
-Some clown was caught trying to pry open the cage to The Old Man's hangout. A 19+foot Hannah with a royally rank attitude. Fortunately the door was also screwed shut. Nobody ever goes in there with all work done with long poles through trap doors in the ceiling. The _*'I would go in there'*_ of course should be allowed in. ??
-The entire place is swept spotlessly clean twice a day. No rocks, gravel or even loose dirt for the tourists to throw at the animals.
-All cages got remeshed to 1/4 inch piano wire thanks to the  _*'I would go in there'* t_rying to stick their fingers in. 

Walking off, shaking my head.

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## Tigrosa (Jul 1, 2016)

You need yourself a hook.

Also, let me give you some advice: when reaching for a defensive snake, don't hesitate. It's when you hesitate - and end up either dangling your hands in the enclosure, or having to reach in multiple times - that bites occur. Reach towards the animal with confidence. Be slo,w, but steady. Don't ever come at the snake from its face or above its head. If you can, lift the snake's tail up with one hand, and slide your other hand under the center of the snake's body and lift that end up, too. Your goal is to be the substrate under the snake. Allow it to move freely, don't let it drop, and don't come at it from the face end.

You very well may take a few bites in the process. The best thing to do - and it's tough, believe me, I know - is to not yank your hand away from the snake if it bites you! It's unlikely to latch on, far more likely to give you a glancing blow than a serious chomp. It may hurt, but it's just pin-pricks. If you pull away, you may end up with a laceration and even a few teeth in there... which is bad for you, and worse for the snake.

It's also probably best to avoid handling the snake towards the end of a feeding cycle, when it's hungry. Some large boids can get a little food-happy. That's another major way snake bites occur!

Luckily, you've got a small Burm to start with. You'll get more comfortable with it over time, and you'll be used to working with it by the time it gets really big. It'll also have time to get used to you. It may never be tame, and it may hate you forever, but it wont be quite so foul.

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## Blackout14 (Jul 1, 2016)

The Snark said:


> Hey. No offense meant here. Not meaning to be acerbic at all and not aimed at you, @Blackout14 . I just came back from a bike ride to cool off and calm down.
> 
> Okay, the place is one of the snake farms of N. Thailand. Right now they have about 1200 snakes, about 1/3 of which are venomous and 1/4 of which are viewable by the public. The snakes all live in the natural climate if not environment. No synthetic environment and climate terrariums.
> 
> ...


Not offense taken.  I hate places like that their is a reptile ranch not farm from my house that does similar things to get a rise out of people and it drives me nuts.  I made a classic internet mistake. You do not know who I am just as much as I do not know you . When I say I would not be afraid to go in their I don't mean it a big macho guy saying I am not afraid.  I mean it as a guy who has a degree in herpitoligy was one of the youngest certified venomous animal handlers in my state have worked at multiple zoos worked with animal control and been tagged by hundred of large pythons bias and anacondas while either dealing with or breeding. I have never been tagged by a venous mouse snake in all my time handling.  So when you posted know one in their right mind would go in their when they are warm me stating I would was not meant in the that way that you and I both hate.  The people that have no idea going I can do that!  Just that I have a much better knowledge and understanding of how these snakes operate at higher temps from body language how far they can strike how they react and how to get them to do what I need to do.  No feeling hurt but I know we're you are comming from I hate those people as well and could see how you would think that's how I was comming off when I wasn't.

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## Blackout14 (Jul 1, 2016)

Lotta spelling errors in that post.  Combination of no coffee yet and my cell phone is never a good thing


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## 14pokies (Jul 1, 2016)

The Snark said:


> Lower the temperature below 60 F. You can go down to 45 F. See how it acts after 24 hours. It's very easy to regulate their temperament by the temperature.
> 
> 
> Nobody would dare to go in this enclosure during the middle of the day during the hot season.
> ...


I would.. Barefoot and smiling...


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## 14pokies (Jul 1, 2016)

Blackout14 said:


> Lotta spelling errors in that post.  Combination of no coffee yet and my cell phone is never a good thing


Hey man... How is your retic once he is out of the cage? Still crazy?

Sorry man quoted the wrong post.. My question was for Trippinwithsnakes...


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## Blackout14 (Jul 1, 2016)

14pokies said:


> Hey man... How is your retic once he is out of the cage? Still crazy?


I no longer have any large snakes they were sold off or donated to my local zoo when I started having a family.  I am working on finishing my detached garage into a workshop/ reptile/t room and may decide to get more.  I had 3 in my collection biggest was 14 ft and she calmed down after she got about 6 ft or so.  But I never would fully trust her.  My Burmese pythons I could run their head do whatever I wanted and not ever worry about it.  I have dealt with many other though mine other people's zoos and retics definatly have more of a temper but are more beautiful . All of my snakes were better out of the cage since I diddnt want them associating opening the cage with food and diddnt have a big enough cage to move them too to eat I developed a different plan.

1 I would open the cage and use the hook to touch them and let them know I wasn't food.  Once I could touch them or rub them without the jumping I would go in and grab them

2 once out of the cage depending on the snake if it was a calm one I would toss it on the floor of not into a big Rubbermaid and would place the food frozen rat rabbit ect into their encloser after cleaning changing water ect

3 go wash your hands!!

4 I would gently place the snake back into the cage were after a few minutes they would find the food and start eating.

This trained them to know that if they calm down it will be over quickly and also to know that if they wanted to be fed they would have to let
Me get them out.  One time I got tagged this way by a super
Nice snake and it was simply because I was in a rush and did not wash my hands after tossing the rat in I whent to put her in the cage she came up
And locked into my bicep but immediatly realized she made a mistake.  This worked well for my personal snakes for many years snakes are able to be somewhat trained to do what you need of them

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## The Snark (Jul 1, 2016)

Blackout14 said:


> I diddnt want them associating opening the cage with food


Really good idea. So simple and so easily overlooked. Giving food is your #1 training method so the animals head for the door the moment you open it, ready to bite/strike etc.



Blackout14 said:


> 3 go wash your hands!!


Snerk snerk. Which can easily develop into a Lady Macbeth syndrome. Watch just about anyone who has worked in a hospital for a while. It's automatic; pass by a sink, wash your hands. Hand washing station is between each and every location you go to: basic infection control.
Years down the road and I still can't get near a sink without washing my hands.

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## Blackout14 (Jul 1, 2016)

The Snark said:


> Really good idea. So simple and so easily overlooked. Giving food is your #1 training method so the animals head for the door the moment you open it, ready to bite/strike etc.
> 
> 
> Snerk snerk. Which can easily develop into a Lady Macbeth syndrome. Watch just about anyone who has worked in a hospital for a while. It's automatic; pass by a sink, wash your hands. Hand washing station is between each and every location you go to: basic infection control.
> Years down the road and I still can't get near a sink without washing my hands.


Haha yep same here when I was handling big snakes I would wash like a surgeon all the way up to the elbow lol


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## Trippinwithsnakes (Jul 1, 2016)

14pokies said:


> Hey man... How is your retic once he is out of the cage? Still crazy?
> 
> Sorry man quoted the wrong post.. My question was for Trippinwithsnakes...


He strikes at everything i have seen diamondback rattlesnakes calmer then him


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## 14pokies (Jul 1, 2016)

Trippinwithsnakes said:


> He strikes at everything i have seen diamondback rattlesnakes calmer then him


That's fine...  I have had many like that... You can calm him down.. You just have to figure out what his trigger is...

The golden child gene originated from dwarf stock.. Dwarfs are generally more high strung than mainlands...   The first few generations of mainlands took a lot of patience to get acclimated also...

It's  going to take a lot of confidence on your part to get him calmed down...

I don't suppose there is any way you can post a short video of how he reacts to having his enclosure approached and opened? It would also be helpfull to see how he reacts to being touched and gently manipulated by a hook..

In general with defensive retics ( specially females on a clutch of eggs ) if you can keep them from getting locked into that classic S (aka I'm gonna light you up) position by gently pushing there head away from you with a roll of paper towels or a padded hook ( rap a few sheets of paper towels around the hook end and use a few raps of masking tape to keep it on).. Just gently keep pushing his head away and while he is distracted get your hand under him.. You can do this a few times and then just shut the door... It's all about establishing trust...  After doing this a few times over a week try getting him half way out of the cage.. Keep going at a slow pace and see if he starts to calm down.. Obviously the end goal is to get him out of the enclosure without too much stress on either of you...

I have decades of large snake handling so I personaly would just keep the buisiness end at bay with paper towels and pull him out... I would do my best to keep him low to the floor and crawling through my hands letting the first 3rd of his body touch the floor If he is large enough( It's better to take one to the shins than the face and if he is low you have a better ability to dodge his strike).. The goal is (A) not getting staples in your face and (B) letting him crawl through your hands with out any restraint and(C) He will be more interested in looking for an escape route on the ground than trying to hit you the offender square on the money maker....Remeber though retics are semi arboreal when young and lean.. There is a good chance that he will want to climb towards your face... There are things that in that situation I can do to minimize a nasty bite to my hands while diverting him from my face but not knowing your experience and confidence level I personaly would advise taking the slow approach I first mentioned..

It could be purely cage defensive/ territorial behaviour... It's not uncommon for males to get wacky when they start maturing or during the breeding season...

If he is just defending his space it's as easy as getting him out... If he doesn't chill once he's out it's fear.. That can be difficult and dangerous to work through.. Remeber to always have a partner when you are working with him if he is large...

Let me know what you can do about a video his body language will tell me more in 30 seconds than you will ever be able to..If you don't want to post it on the boards you can p.m. it to me..

I'm usually pretty busy/distracted and I have terrible ADD so typing long replies like this and makeing my points intelligible is hard so if it will help I can phone you just p.m. me..

I really hope I can help you man.. I hate seeing people having such a difficult time with a species that has so much potential to be a great "pet"..  Be safe man and hit me up with any questions...

Reactions: Informative 1


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## The Snark (Jul 1, 2016)

Duhhh. I even have a pair of welding gloves. Forgot about that. Hold out hand. Let Python munch. Do doo cleaning etc one handed. Wiggle tip of tail when done to tell it to let go. Simple.

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