# World's most nicest spider



## buthus (Aug 15, 2008)

Ok.. Ive gotten fairly comfortable with these  ...so..lets push one around for awhile...















































































These are only a few pics ...I must have "tormented" (nothing really terrible) this beauty for an hour.  And she remained calm (I mean totally calm) the entire time.  

Their legs are amazing! ...like thick fluted tubes that hinge around more like a iron-clad beetles legs. 


*BTW* ...I have been studying/testing the reactions of a small group of these since the day I got them ...slowly & carefully.  I had one of DavidRSs rear up and tag my fan brush a while back ...from what I gather, that behavior is rare for Sicarius, yet it reminded me that shat can happen.
So.. if you go now and pull some mindless monkey see, monkey do and you get tagged ..your problem not mine. Dont come whining on the board about how I encouraged the handling of these.


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## SlaytanicArachnid (Aug 15, 2008)

what kind of spiders are those . they are awsome


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## Vidaro (Aug 15, 2008)

they look fake
btw i noticed a spider playing dead once when i try to give it to my scorpion so it might have been doing just that when u were picking on it


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## Raikiri (Aug 15, 2008)

This is a Sicarius sp.

Very nice shots buthus!! My specimens are also very calm. None of them tried to attack me. They have very dangerous venom, but they don't use it against humans  And their digging behavior is fantastic!


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## Raikiri (Aug 15, 2008)

Vidaro said:


> they look fake
> btw i noticed a spider playing dead once when i try to give it to my scorpion so it might have been doing just that when u were picking on it


Why fake? Do you know what kind of spider is it? Have you ever kept it? This is an alive, healty female!


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## Vidaro (Aug 15, 2008)

i never said theyr fake i stated that they look fake
pictures are cool btw


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## JonathanF (Aug 15, 2008)

To be honest, if I were a mod, I would've deleted the thread...

These photos might encourage younger and inexperienced keepers attempt "playing" with _Sicarius sp._- which wouldn't probably cause a "happy ending".

If not deleting the thread, editing Buthus' post adding a "Don't try this at home!" warning, might be a good thing to do.


P.S, nice pictures Buthus!


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## hamfoto (Aug 15, 2008)

As a mod...I don't mind the pics.

If you are a younger or inexperienced hobbyist...DON'T keep these spiders or any others that are potentially dangerous.  Get experience with other species and work your way up to what you feel comfortable with.

Chris


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## proper_tea (Aug 15, 2008)

Wow... these pictures are really encouraging.  I've been watching these spiders for a while now, and really want some because their digging behavior is so cool, but am seriously intimidated by their venom.  I've been considering getting a few widows, to get used to dealing with venomous spiders, and work my way up to a couple Siccarius sp.  These pics make me really want to get on that.


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## buthus (Aug 15, 2008)

> Wow... these pictures are really encouraging.


:wall:


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## Rick McJimsey (Aug 15, 2008)

Could you get any close up shots of the Chelicerae?
I'm highly interested to see them.


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## buthus (Aug 15, 2008)

bobtard said:


> Could you get any close up shots of the Chelicerae?
> I'm highly interested to see them.


Yep..next will be heavy lighting, tripod and macro.


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## GartenSpinnen (Aug 15, 2008)

......I was just telling someone the other day.... "Yea, you will see some people mess around with Latrodectus, but i am yet to see someone bold enough to play around with a Sicarius!"...... Then it happens.... you are nuts! ;P


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## Scorpendra (Aug 15, 2008)

i like sicarius spp., but i can't really see myself owning one (especially not anytime soon) and certainly not playing with one. nice pics


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## Moltar (Aug 15, 2008)

Yikes. Yikes, I say.

Such a cool spider but OMG, the venom. You are braver than I buthus. I won't even try to free handle my snarkier t's.


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## spiders4life (Aug 15, 2008)

Nice pics Buthus!
Even though I am the proud owner of a bunch of Sicarius terrosus, i dont ever think i am going to handle them, but it defenetly confirmed my theory, that theese little buggers arent as aggresive towards anything else than flies and crickets 
Regards Mikael


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## Moltar (Aug 15, 2008)

proper_tea said:


> Wow... these pictures are really encouraging.  I've been watching these spiders for a while now, and really want some because their digging behavior is so cool, but am seriously intimidated by their venom.  I've been considering getting a few widows, to get used to dealing with venomous spiders, and work my way up to a couple Siccarius sp.  These pics make me really want to get on that.



It's not the venom you need to get used to, rather the behavior. Widows (at least the L variolus i've kept) are extremely timid. You'd have better luck getting a G aureostriata to bite you. As new as Sicarius are to the hobby I guess it's still being sorted out what they're behavior's like. It's good to see they're apparently docile but personally that won't change my mind one bit about getting one.


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## buthus (Aug 16, 2008)

etown_411 said:


> It's not the venom you need to get used to, rather the behavior. .


    
its all good  ..totally understand what you'r sayin.  Just cracked me up though.


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## *Parabuthus* (Aug 16, 2008)

Hallo.


Nice pics, but why you touch them like that?

The venom is really powerful!


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## buthus (Sep 5, 2008)

Lost my tripod camera connection thingy thing and it stinks.  Felt like trying for some decent close-ups anyway.  Ya know, I dont know bout this sigma lense...wish i could afford the canon and have a comparison. 
Then again these are shot @800 iso so I spose clarity has been compromised there. 
I think their faces are just goofy looking.. some George Lucas monsters face or something.


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## John Apple (Sep 5, 2008)

I see the pics buthus and I am sure you know my stance on handling these guys , judging from your post in that 'other' thread. 
Better yet why don't you post a pic of it walking across your face or something like that...give all these younger readers something to look up to


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## bluefrogtat2 (Sep 5, 2008)

*agree*

i agree with john.
100%
andy


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## buthus (Sep 5, 2008)

Bull I say.  I now understand Sicarius behavior 10X more than I did before. To compare this with antics like putting a spider on ones face is ridiculous  ...and tiresome. ..yawn.   As much as I have always respected your opinion, that statement tells me that you miss the point completely IMO.


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## cjm1991 (Sep 6, 2008)

You cannot be saying not to handle (if thats what you were saying in my thread) if you have pics like this. This is about the most irresponsible thing you could do... not only for the up n comers in the hobby, but for all of us who have been in it and enjoy it very much. You could ruin it for everyone, so theres alot at stake for all of us when you do this kinda stuff. If you handle LQ's, A.Robusta's, and wandering spiders thats your business and I cant say anything against what you find entertaining; At least dont post pics of you doing so.. kids will get the wrong impression.


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## Godzirra (Sep 6, 2008)

They crack me up very much, while looking at these pictures i cringed so much. Though in the end i was surprised and found what you shared very interesting.

That's a lovely color it has.


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## buthus (Sep 6, 2008)

> You cannot be saying not to handle (if thats what you were saying in my thread)


 These forums arent just some picture book ...ya gotta read a bit to get the facts.  You should try that before you type your anxious little thoughts.  
Ok Ill crap my own thread with your crap.  
My first post in your Sicarius thread ...was it critical? I believe it was an attempt to get back on the subject of the possible "perils" of keeping Sicarius ...some random show n tell regarding enclosure climbing spiders ...it wasnt about handling the species, your age, OR even your attitude.  But then after a bunch of new posts, you proved to be a little prick. Not only that, you were arguing the fact that 2cm ventilation holes were just fine for Sicarius.  So...if you READ my next post in your thread, you'll find that Im addressing 2 issues. 1st of which was regarding the fact that Sicarious can squeeze through very tight places.  2nd was the fact that you were acting like a little prick.  Nothing regarding handling.  Ok..so third post... 





> well thar we go folks! Good luck dumb shmuck!


 Nope, no handling opinion there either.  
Fourth post... its a response to being called out on my handling pics I posted here.  It was a valid call and I was as honest as I could be.  Nothing about my opinion whether one should handle Sicarius or not.  
Ok...so I think that leaves us with my last post on your thread. A little invite to someone of stature here to respond to my "foolery" and a little rant regarding some of my goofball thoughts.  Again, nothing about my opinion whether one should handle Sicarius or not.  There was that bit about you needing to shut up because you sound like a "whiny weeny" everytime you post though. That was in there.  


Anyway..



hamfoto said:


> As a mod...I don't mind the pics.
> 
> If you are a younger or inexperienced hobbyist...DON'T keep these spiders or any others that are potentially dangerous.  Get experience with other species and work your way up to what you feel comfortable with.
> 
> Chris


Pure and simple...sums it all up as quick as you can read it.  




bobtard said:


> Could you get any close up shots of the Chelicerae?
> I'm highly interested to see them.


Turns out to be a bit of a tough assignment ...well, without holding the little devil vertical or upside down or something to get sight of the lower Chelicerae..fangs and all.  Probably have to handle the bugger.. plus somehow  expose the fangs.  Kinda sounds dangerous. ... :wall:


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## cjm1991 (Sep 6, 2008)

At least I have enough common sense unlike you to hold something that can kill me. That right there makes you not worth my time, you will get killed and be the first recorded death of a sicarius keeper and ruin it for everyone.  Let me post pics of me playing russian roulette and im sure everyone would have something nice to say about it. YOur ignorance will be the death of you, so I can care less about you trying to manipulate your bruised ego into something better. Fact is your an embarrassment to this site with pics of you handleing them, great example from someone who supposibly thinks he knows everything. From the way your randomly jump from topic to topic you arent very mature yourself. Keep digging a deeper hole, I dont care. What makes you so incredible ignorant is the fact that you now the danger of the situation yet you do it anyways. Basically your just saying, "Look how cool I am" when the majority of people could care less and couldnt care more about you ruining their favorite past time.


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## lucanidae (Sep 6, 2008)

If anyone can show me evidence that this spider has actually deadly venom, I'd love to see it. Rumors rumor rumors I say! And the paper where they use rabbits (Pucell 1908...1908 is out dated!), yes, I've read it, and no....it's not enough to convince me this would be that dangerous to a human. Wikipedia...also not a credible source.

Anyone?


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## John Apple (Sep 6, 2008)

buthus said:


> Bull I say.  I now understand Sicarius behavior 10X more than I did before. To compare this with antics like putting a spider on ones face is ridiculous  ...and tiresome. ..yawn.   As much as I have always respected your opinion, that statement tells me that you miss the point completely IMO.


yeah man I love beef also....the comparison sounded rediculous ....right....well so did posting handling pics to me....so yeah your point is made as so is mine...Believe it or not buddy, we might beef on this topic but your opinion I have also respected... 

But I can also say this and I am sure most would agree.....the controversy and mis-information going back and forth  about this spider...might....might make folks and youngsters think twice before touchy feely with this spider.
So our beef could be a good thing:?


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## buthus (Sep 7, 2008)

John Apple said:


> yeah man I love beef also....the comparison sounded rediculous ....right....well so did posting handling pics to me....so yeah your point is made as so is mine...Believe it or not buddy, we might beef on this topic but your opinion I have also respected...
> 
> But I can also say this and I am sure most would agree.....the controversy and mis-information going back and forth  about this spider...might....might make folks and youngsters think twice before touchy feely with this spider.
> So our beef could be a good thing:?


John, I very much appreciate this response.  I was thinking today about the "debate" and I started to worry that our beef may have turned to fowl.  

Ok.. the controversy, the debate...your beef, yes its a good thing.  But, mis-information is NEVER a good thing. Even in some circumstance where it turns out to be a good thing, its still not truth, so why bother. Science that lies is like religion that rapes.
 I would venture that its the *mis-information* about this spider that has enticed a decent percentage of peope to get this specie.  I mean, if ya look at the thing, overall its a boring spider... theyre fairly pricey, not all that big, not colorful, hardly ever move...its got the personality of a smashed spent matchbook buried in the sand.  Ok,yep, its does a couple real cool things, but pretty much every specie Ive owned or observed does at least a couple really cool things.  
Anyway, im fried ...falin asleep in my chair ...had more to say but it'l have to wait.


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## John Apple (Sep 7, 2008)

The misinformation is wrong I do agree...and when it comes to science there is no room for it
so what do we know about this genus....
Boring bug...heh heh yeah I agree with ya here, anything that lives in sand and doesn't move for years [exaggeration] can't be all that stimulating
dangerous bug...yes, pretty potent venom
smooth surface climber...nah not really
six eyes ...yup
mild mannered...yup, definately not an usumbara here.

I am gonna have to get one now that I know what I am getting into


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## mitchnast (Sep 7, 2008)

i started on your pics and right off the bat i was like .
huh? 
HEY!
NOOOOO!
NOOOOO!
WHAT ARE YOU DOING?
AAAAH!
NOOOOO!


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## Deroplatys (Sep 8, 2008)

Bloody hell, why does every get all retarded over someone holding there pet, people call handlers stupid because they are handling something dangerous, well if they can handle something dangerous without being bit then obviously they have some skill.
Nice spider buthus and good thread


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## lucanidae (Sep 8, 2008)

Still waiting for that evidence that these are actually dangerous to humans...


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## Venom (Sep 8, 2008)

lucanidae said:


> Still waiting for that evidence that these are actually dangerous to humans...


How about clinical testing of the presence of large amounts of sphingomyelinase-D in Sicarius venom? SMD is what makes the Loxosceles spp. toxic, so it follows that large amounts of it in Sicarius carries a similar, though greater risk, due to larger yield and concentration than L.reclusa . 

"It is striking that venoms of L. laeta and Sicarius yielded an order of magnitude more total venom protein upon electrostimulation than the other Loxosceles species surveyed (Table 1). Furthermore, SMD activity per unit total venom protein was comparable between these species and the Loxosceles species that have well-documented and serious dermonecrotic effects on human tissues. If the severity of lesion formation is positively correlated with absolute amounts of SMD, bites from L. laeta and Sicarius may be capable of inducing more severe reactions than other species. Analyses of the effects of Sicarius venoms in rabbits indicate that dermenecrotic lesions develop more rapidly after Sicarius bites than after bites of South African Loxosceles (Newlands, 1982; Newlands and Atkinson,
1990a). In fact, some African researchers have touted Sicarius as the most dangerous spider known; however, the biology of these animals makes human envenomation events rare."

Cited from:

http://www.lclark.edu/~binford/SMDDi...ion copy.pdf


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## mitchnast (Sep 8, 2008)

I believe the appropriate saying for this moment is "oh snap"


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## John Apple (Sep 8, 2008)

Venom said:


> How about clinical testing of the presence of large amounts of sphingomyelinase-D in Sicarius venom? SMD is what makes the Loxosceles spp. toxic, so it follows that large amounts of it in Sicarius carries a similar, though greater risk, due to larger yield and concentration than L.reclusa .
> 
> "It is striking that venoms of L. laeta and Sicarius yielded an order of magnitude more total venom protein upon electrostimulation than the other Loxosceles species surveyed (Table 1). Furthermore, SMD activity per unit total venom protein was comparable between these species and the Loxosceles species that have well-documented and serious dermonecrotic effects on human tissues. If the severity of lesion formation is positively correlated with absolute amounts of SMD, bites from L. laeta and Sicarius may be capable of inducing more severe reactions than other species. Analyses of the effects of Sicarius venoms in rabbits indicate that dermenecrotic lesions develop more rapidly after Sicarius bites than after bites of South African Loxosceles (Newlands, 1982; Newlands and Atkinson,
> 1990a). In fact, some African researchers have touted Sicarius as the most dangerous spider known; however, the biology of these animals makes human envenomation events rare."
> ...


Now this is why I frown on holding these guys


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## lucanidae (Sep 8, 2008)

Thanks for the quote! The citation doesn't work, can you please provide an author, year, and title?


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## Widowman10 (Sep 8, 2008)

mitchnast said:


> I believe the appropriate saying for this moment is "oh snap"


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## MaartenSFS (Sep 9, 2008)

Cool thread, though I don't like handling invertebrates for my own safety and theirs. And, yes, I do think that you are crazy. But I drive a motorcycle on some VERY bad roads here in China, looking for inverts and witnessed someone cut down by 7-8 men with swords last Saturday, so perhaps I am as well.   Therefore, this doesn't change my opinion of you at all, though I wouldn't sell you insurance.

If you want to help the hobby I would suggest writing some kind of statement that you take all responsibilty for your actions and knew the inherent risks so that when they find you with ebola-like symptoms and a spider on the loose everyone else won't suffer.


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## Irks (Sep 9, 2008)

This is the researcher's home page:
http://www.lclark.edu/~binford/index.html
this is the link to the report:
http://www.lclark.edu/~binford/SMDDistribution%20copy.pdf


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## buthus (Sep 9, 2008)

MaartenSFS sounds scary ...guy probably had it coming though... shouldnt mess around with triad.  :wall:   People are evil thats why I rather just hang out with nice spiders.
U come across latrodectus during your quests?  



Well, guess the only thing left to do is a bite test. Think id start out with loxosceles deserta or something and work my way up specie to specie until a wound wont heal fast enough for my taste.


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## buthus (Sep 9, 2008)

> _and the Loxosceles species that have well-documented and serious dermonecrotic effects on human tissues_





> _Bites of spiders in the genus Loxosceles, the recluse or brown spiders, cause severe necrotic lesions and systemic effects in humans throughout the world._


yep, sure.. start off with that major leap and those numbers look really significant. 

Has there been human testing? :?    ...   No...well, but all we need is a bunch of medical case files to jack those stats to the realm of delusion. 




Ok nother thing that has bothered me here.  Theres once again another person suggesting that I should declare some sort of warning or explanation with pics such as these.  Its like no one actually reads anymore ...just look at the pics and start those opinions a whilrlin'.  


> *BTW *...I have been studying/testing the reactions of a small group of these since the day I got them ...slowly & carefully. I had one of DavidRSs rear up and tag my fan brush a while back ...from what I gather, that behavior is rare for Sicarius, yet it reminded me that shat can happen.
> So.. if you go now and pull some mindless monkey see, monkey do and you get tagged ..your problem not mine. Dont come whining on the board about how I encouraged the handling of these.


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## MaartenSFS (Sep 9, 2008)

buthus said:


> MaartenSFS sounds scary ...guy probably had it coming though... shouldnt mess around with triad.  :wall:   People are evil thats why I rather just hang out with nice spiders.
> U come across latrodectus during your quests?
> 
> 
> ...


I know, he did have it coming. When we left he was began to move slightly and curse that he would kill someone.



buthus said:


> People are evil thats why I rather just hang out with nice spiders.


What does your GF/wife think of this? =P

I did actually come across a specimen of Latrodectus right here in the city. There should be a thread called "Probably Chinese Latrodectus.." somewhere out there.

If you do start bite testing drink detox tea every morning, you crazy, crazy man.


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## burmish101 (Dec 21, 2008)

Just because you can dosent mean you should... Why not poke it with other objects besides your fingers?


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## buthus (Dec 21, 2008)

_Why not poke it with other objects besides your fingers?_
Thats what she said last night!


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## calum (Dec 21, 2008)

that really made me LOL.


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## crpy (Dec 21, 2008)

Yeah ,this thread is old but buthus is always up for it lol


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