# Finally got them into submission...



## lizardminion (May 24, 2012)

So, after months of daily harassment, and the arrival of my birthday this comin' Tuesday, my parents only found it fair to finally get me my first reptile/herp. And guess what? It's not a turtle(I hardly seem to remember these are reptiles, having never mentioning them :/), not a frog, and not even a lizard.

I'm getting a _ball python_. YES! Victory has been seized, for the most part, anyway. However, I'm quite finicky about the name I'm giving it. After all, it's supposed to be the only snake I'm ever getting in this house. (Yeah right, let's be realistic here...) So, many hours have been devoted to the naming, and I have decided on the beautiful name Cleopatra. Then my parents had the family meeting on my future BFF. And because they're freaking shorter since "males usually average around 90–107 cm (3.0–3.51 ft)" and "females tend to be slightly bigger than males, maturing at an average of 122–137 cm (4.00–4.49 ft")"[SUP][1][/SUP], I just have to get a freaking male python. So the next name that comes in mind is Boots. ('Dark humor'. You get it?) Only I can feel the novelty of this kind of name will wear off. And I guess because Exhibit A is a crappy name, I ain't got no male names. 
Although I think this whole dilemma in general is just plain stupid. Sure, I get it, it's only a name. But I dunno, I just feel I need a female python. Just for the heck of it. 
But nonetheless, it peeves me because they just have to decide for me. The corn snakes out of the options because it's "bigger". (rather, just longer) THE PYTHON'S BIGGER! It's weight and general width of the snake that truly determines size. And no ball python's gonna eat a cat, either.

Sorry, for venting, kinda nags me. I'm more than happy to get a python of all reptiles, after my whole family hates snakes. I mean my whole family. My dad just doesn't like exotic animals, my mom has "respect" for them, my sister deathly afraid of them, as are my grandparents. This'll be a hell of a family reunion.

BUT YES! How much do each gender average in on? How long + heavy do males average, and how long + heavy do females average? What's the largest ball python? And do you have any other input on my stupid dilemma? (Like, "Why name a snake, it can't hear anyway since they have no ears!" although that's actually not entirely true since they have bone in their skull that's adapted to hearing.) Better yet, do you have a fix to it?

Best of all, I'm getting one of my favorite morphs- the Normal/Wildtype! (that's not even sarcasm- I really do like them!)

Also, another rule is that the snake isn't allowed to be around my neck. And asking if I can put it on my shoulders was a smartass question, too.

Also, I can't have tongs because you can just throw a dead mouse in there and not expect your hand to be mistaken for dinner instead.

Sorry, for an unorganized post, but in general, I'm so excited! (although a wee bit upset over their stupid, ridiculous, rules)
I'll post pictures when I get it _tomorrow_!

Edit: Oh yeah, and I'm buying it at petsmart too. Yes, shame on me.


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## astraldisaster (May 24, 2012)

Congrats on finally being able to get your first herp. A few things:

- I doubt PetSmart will be able to sex their (baby) ball pythons for you -- just sayin'. But, here are the names I've used for my male snakes: Abraxas, Alastor, Paracletus, and Betelgeuse. I like weird names. But I am also picky, and sometimes new pets of mine remain nameless for weeks (or even months) until the right moniker comes to me. The animals really couldn't care less.
- While female BPs do get a bit bigger on average, it's really not THAT noticeable a difference. Even the largest ball wouldn't come close to being able to choke or injure you in any way. Females aren't "more dangerous" than males.
- If you're planning to feed your snake frozen/thawed rodents, you NEED tongs. Many snakes won't eat a rodent unless you make it "dance." Snakes normally eat live prey, so simulating life via some sort of movement is important. I'm not really sure why your parents wouldn't want you to get tongs...it makes feedings safer and easier for everyone involved.


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## Hayden (May 24, 2012)

Some thoughts:
-You don't NEED tongs to feed it, but Astral Disaster is right in that most snakes need will need you to jiggle it. When I feed my snakes I just dangle the mouse by the tail until the snake strikes, and I've never been bit during a feeding. Plus, it's a Ball Python, not a Retic, if it bites you it's really not that big a deal. Slap some Neosporin on that puppy and call it a day. 
-I also agree that PetSmart will not be able to tell you the sex of your snake with anymore accuracy than a coin toss. To sex them, especially at that age, you'd need to probe them and I can promise you they don't do that there. Whatever they tell you will be a guess, so go ahead and name the snake Cleopatra if you want. I had a male corn snake named Jenna for years, and he never once complained about it. 
-Using the sex of the snake as a predictor of size is kind of silly anyways. While the average male is smaller than the average female, you could get get a male that ends up being 4'6" and a female that tops out at 3', and unless you're a mouse, neither of those snakes could kill you even if they wanted to. If you decide that you just HAVE to know the sex, either buy from a reputable breeder and not a chain store, or buy an unsexed baby from the store and bring it to a shop that specializes in exotics or a herp vet. 
-If you decide to buy from a chain store, which I strongly recommend you do not do, make sure to look out for signs of mouth rot, MBD, respiratory infections, burns, wounds, etc. The last thing you want to do is pick up a sick snake. Any sign of stress is a bad sign. Don't be afraid to walk away without a snake if none available look healthy. Better to wait a little longer than to have your new baby snake die on you. Buying from reputable breeders also tends to be much cheaper. 
-As far as names go, I usually pick the first thing that pops into my head. I've tried picking creative or majestic names and I always stumble over them. My snakes' names are Buster (corn snake), Dwight (corn snake), Roger (anerythristic Kenyan Sand Boa), Pixel (snow Kenyan Sand Boa), Pablo (albino Colombian Boa), Beau (San Felipe Rosy Boa), Ricky Bobby (Ball Python) and Stryker (Ball Python). (I didn't name Stryker, he was a rescue. But it's a pretty awesome name.)
-What sort of setup do you have for it? 
-Are you planning on feeding live or f/t?


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## lizardminion (May 24, 2012)

Definitely f/t.
Any way, to say, pop the hemipenes out?
I can be a bit of a perfectionist at times...
::


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## Thistles (May 25, 2012)

As a PetSmart associate, I have to say that their ability to sex the snake will depend a lot on the store. I can sex them, as can one of my coworkers who managed a reptile store for 11 years. You can pop baby balls. I suggest you look up some videos on popping before you go in tomorrow. This is also a good time to buy because it is our reptile promotion month and there is a Memorial day sale. Grats!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Hayden (May 25, 2012)

Thistles, you are obviously the exception and not the rule. 
Please, please, PLEASE do not pop your snake if you haven't practiced with somebody experienced. Popping can cause permanent damage if done incorrectly. You also don't know the age of the snakes, and there's a very fine line between young enough to be safe and catastrophe. Watching videos is good for general knowledge, but it's not the same as having someone guide you through it while you're doing your first one, and there's no one there to help you should a problem arise. If you really, desperately need to know the sex of your snake before you bring it home, buy an adult and sex it off of secondary sex characteristics or buy it from a reputable breeder. Everybody has their own opinions on different facets of animal husbandry, but I would hate to see the snake you've waited for get hurt over something preventable.

Reactions: Like 1


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## jayefbe (May 25, 2012)

Look for a local ball python breeder and purchase one from them. There are bp breeders EVERYWHERE, and if you're looking for a normal male, well, breeders focusing on morphs (which is basically all of them) practically give them away. They can also show you how to pop and you'll have a smaller chance of ending up with a snake with feeding issues. Don't go through a chain. I doubt you'd have to spend more than 20 bucks if you found a local breeder.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Thistles (May 25, 2012)

Hayden said:


> Thistles, you are obviously the exception and not the rule.
> Please, please, PLEASE do not pop your snake if you haven't practiced with somebody experienced. Popping can cause permanent damage if done incorrectly. You also don't know the age of the snakes, and there's a very fine line between young enough to be safe and catastrophe. Watching videos is good for general knowledge, but it's not the same as having someone guide you through it while you're doing your first one, and there's no one there to help you should a problem arise. If you really, desperately need to know the sex of your snake before you bring it home, buy an adult and sex it off of secondary sex characteristics or buy it from a reputable breeder. Everybody has their own opinions on different facets of animal husbandry, but I would hate to see the snake you've waited for get hurt over something preventable.


 Fair enough, but I think popping is much safer than probing!


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## Niffarious (May 25, 2012)

jayefbe said:


> Look for a local ball python breeder and purchase one from them. There are bp breeders EVERYWHERE, and if you're looking for a normal male, well, breeders focusing on morphs (which is basically all of them) practically give them away. They can also show you how to pop and you'll have a smaller chance of ending up with a snake with feeding issues. Don't go through a chain. I doubt you'd have to spend more than 20 bucks if you found a local breeder.


This. A large number of the normal coloured baby ball pythons in the pet trade are still WC or captive hatched (from imported parents) and do not do well. A breeder will provide you with a healthier animal for cheaper, and it will likely be sexed.


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## Hayden (May 25, 2012)

Thistles said:


> Fair enough, but I think popping is much safer than probing!


For very young snakes, yeah. I would never pop an adult though.


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## lizardminion (May 26, 2012)

Went to petsmart today! Got a healthy looking hatchling, maybe around a foot long. Kinda thin looking, but hey, it's so young, it hasn't eaten yet! Luckily for me, prayers work and the employee who got this fella for me is into reptiles herself and has kept balls before, as well as she keeps beardies. Nice to have an experienced emloyee helpin' around!





About time I got my first reptile.


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## Niffarious (May 26, 2012)

Anyone can keep a few easy species. An educated, experienced employee would NOT have sold a first-time reptile keeper, or anyone, a thin hatchling that has yet to eat. FYI if it looks thin it needs to eat, but isn't (or was neglected) for some reason.

If you'd waited and gone to a breeder you would have got a healthy CB baby, eating, and sexed.

I hope it eats for you.


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## lizardminion (May 26, 2012)

Well, I tried to convince my mom to go to a breeder, but if she wants to pay extra for a normal python that may be neglected, that's her choice. I threw in my wallet only for an enclosure. (and it was only $20 anyway, lol) She just likes petsmart because of the two week guarantee. I don't want it suffering in the first place.

I was thinking of trying to feed him tomorrow. Although his skin looks a little milky, his eyes are still clear and I'm worried about his weight, so I'm thinking I'll give it a shot.

Edit: It is captive bred. From what they said, they only buy from breeding facilities and breeders.


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## AmysAnimals (May 26, 2012)

I was going to get a ball python for my birthday until I wussied out because of having to feed it live.  I couldn't feed it f/t because no one in my house would allow frozen rats in the freezer.  =/  Otherwise I would have gotten the ball python that I have wanted!   Sucks because I still want it.  I got a bunny instead xD It's my 21st bday on Thursday.  I am hoping to get a few T's.  =)  (Well money to buy them anyways hehe)

Have fun with your BP and good luck!


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## Shell (May 26, 2012)

The fact that they sold you a hatchling that hasn't had a successful feeding is disturbing (although not at all surprising for a pet store). I can't see them buying from a reputable breeder, as every reputable breeder that I know won't sell hatchlings until they have had a successful feed.

If they were willing to sell an underweight baby that isn't feeding, I wouldn't believe them that it's CB and from a breeder (at least not a good breeder).


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## lizardminion (May 26, 2012)

Do BPs eat after their first shed or do you feed them beforehand? Although I haven't had my BP for a week, it is rather thin and hasn't eaten in three weeks. It is only about 13-14 inches long.
Should I try to feed it tomorrow? It is scheduled to feed every Sunday.

Edit: Same question I posted at Y!A:



> How long after a ball python hatches are you supposed to feed it? Does it eat before or after it's first shed? How long after hatching does it have it's first shed?


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## lizardminion (May 29, 2012)

Looks like he's going to shed! His body pattern has a milky-faded appearance and his eye is cloudy. How much longer will it be before he clears up?


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## Thistles (May 29, 2012)

She would have no way of knowing it was a new, unfeeding hatchling or just a snake that hadn't eaten since they received it. Petsmart does only sell captive bred or _captive hatched_ BPs, but there is absolutely no way that employee would know the snake's history. BPs can be stinkers to get eating, so they actually aren't one of my favorite "beginner" snakes in spite of the general ease of care otherwise. You shouldn't buy a snake that isn't eating though, and that is why Petsmart provides the snake feeding charts. If he hasn't eaten in 3 weeks, he is hardly on a schedule. Definitely try to feed him once he's done shedding. Snakes in shed often won't eat. He should shed within a week or so. Try soaking him and increasing the humidity to help him with the shed. I don't know about balls specifically, but generally snakes have their first shed shortly after hatching and then are ready to eat... by shortly I mean like a week. Definitely not a month.


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## jayefbe (May 29, 2012)

lizardminion said:


> Well, I tried to convince my mom to go to a breeder, but if she wants to pay extra for a normal python that may be neglected, that's her choice. I threw in my wallet only for an enclosure. (and it was only $20 anyway, lol) She just likes petsmart because of the two week guarantee. I don't want it suffering in the first place.
> 
> I was thinking of trying to feed him tomorrow. Although his skin looks a little milky, his eyes are still clear and I'm worried about his weight, so I'm thinking I'll give it a shot.
> 
> Edit: It is captive bred. From what they said, they only buy from breeding facilities and breeders.



More likely than not, that ball python is captive HATCHED (as already mentioned). People collect thousands of gravid females, wait til they lay eggs, incubate them, and then sell their offspring. Very different from captive bred. Nobody should be selling any snake that hasn't fed yet. It's just poor practice that exceeds even the very lowest breeders. I've had hatchling ball pythons (CB too) that I had to assist feed for months. It's not something that a first-time reptile keeper should want to do. Under most ball python keeper's care, they would likely have died. If they're not eating right off the bat, it can be a very difficult road.

If you had purchased one from a breeder you would have received a healthy and FEEDING snake, free advice at any time from someone that actually knows what they're talking about, and most will offer a health guarantee that exceeds petsmart's pathetic two week guarantee. You can keep a ball python alive in a bucket in your garage for two weeks. That doesn't mean it will actually thrive.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Niffarious (May 30, 2012)

That's exactly what I tried to warn him about before he bought the snake. These CH baby ball pythons have a notoriously poor survival rate, even with people who have ample reptile experience.

And trust me, that chain sells reptiles that are not CB all the time, so they either lied or are clueless. 
Strangely, this is like the third forum this week I've visited where a teen has bought an animal despite several warnings, then blamed mom. ::


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## LV-426 (May 30, 2012)

Niffarious said:


> That's exactly what I tried to warn him about before he bought the snake. These CH baby ball pythons have a notoriously poor survival rate, even with people who have ample reptile experience.
> 
> And trust me, that chain sells reptiles that are not CB all the time, so they either lied or are clueless.
> Strangely, this is like the third forum this week I've visited where a teen has bought an animal despite several warnings, then blamed mom. ::


When mom is the one who is paying I guess she chooses where to buy it. Most parents are not reptile people so they most likely won't help the kid do the research associated with purchasing a quality animal. Most people are biased against reptiles or any exotic pet.


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## Niffarious (May 30, 2012)

I think I must have been very lucky. My folks knew I'd done my research and still listened to me even when they were footing the bill. 

To the OP - I really do hope the little BP will come around. For what it's worth, you might want to look into soft furred rats if everything else is failing. They are a natural food source and I've heard several accounts of picky BP's taking them with gusto. The jury is still out on that, but if nothing else it would be worth a shot if they are available in your area.


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## lizardminion (May 30, 2012)

LV-426 said:


> When mom is the one who is paying I guess she chooses where to buy it. Most parents are not reptile people so they most likely won't help the kid do the research associated with purchasing a quality animal. Most people are biased against reptiles or any exotic pet.


I was going to say...

Don't get mad at me. If anything, I admire all you guys and your advice, and urged my mom to go to a breeder, but she can be a bit of a turd (excuse me) and doesn't actually care. (she got me the snake just to get me to shut up. But that's a totally unrealistic expectation... ) You also have to remember I only contributed about $25 for the _supplies_. 
I was hoping to go to the reptile expo this Saturday, but she made it a pain in the *** and in the end, I wasn't able to. So, as much as I hated it- but alas it's better than nothing- ended up going to the pet store for an over-priced, bad shape python.
Nonetheless, should I be unable to feed this thing after his shed, I will return for a refund and go find a local breeder. Or I might get an anery corn snake, just cause I want one so badly, but I'll probably save that for a second-snake experience...



Niffarious said:


> Strangely, this is like the third forum this week I've visited where a teen has bought an animal despite several warnings, then blamed mom. ::


Well, the teen in this situation didn't buy it. Instead, Mom was the one who bought it.


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## LV-426 (Jun 1, 2012)

I wasnt trying to put you down or anything, just pointing out the fact that your mom was the one paying and you really didn't have much choice to where to get your snake


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## lizardminion (Jun 1, 2012)

LV-426 said:


> I wasnt trying to put you down or anything, just pointing out the fact that your mom was the one paying and you really didn't have much choice to where to get your snake


No that big part wasn't directed at you. Just the "I was going to say..." part.
A quote I used to reinforce my statement. 

Edit: So, he doesn't look milky and his eyes have cleared up. Well, everything cleared up basically. He's been like that for two days. However, I have yet to see any actual shed anywhere so I have no clue as to if he's actually shed yet.


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## Louise E. Rothstein (Jun 6, 2012)

No shed in sight?
Could he have eaten it all?
Snakes seldom do that,but this snake had been starving.


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## lizardminion (Jun 6, 2012)

No, he did a complete shed a several days ago. Came off in two complete pieces. We then tried to feed him yesterday, but he still wouldn't eat. I'm considering taking him back and letting him be PetSmart's problem again. It's sad though, he is starving. If I take him back, (and get a refund) I'll be driving up to the VPI facility and buy a pastel or enchi.
Once they respond to my email.


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## lizardminion (Jun 7, 2012)

Great news, everyone! I've got my python to eat today! 
He immediately went for the live fuzzy with no hesitation and swallowed it with gusto!
Next week, I may try with another live fuzzy, but the week after that, I will then attempt to feed him pre-killed and will start training him to eat f/t food. Right now though, I'm just glad to have him eating and will be working on fattening him up.


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## Thistles (Jun 9, 2012)

Excellent! So glad the little guy is eating now that he's done with his shed.


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## lizardminion (Jun 9, 2012)

Seems like he had a troubled start, but he's got a great future ahead of him.


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## Walk Alone (Jun 13, 2012)

lizardminion said:


> Great news, everyone! I've got my python to eat today!


Good job!  I hope you keep this thread updated to let us know how he's doing.


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## lizardminion (Jun 13, 2012)

He's doing quite fine. Tomorrow is the scheduled feeding day, and he's going to have 2 live fuzzies to assist in fattening him up.
Also, he's currently breaking my sister's fear of snakes. In fact, she's considering getting her own some day...

Edit: I took some pics of the lil' fella. These are my three favs! The rest are on my facebook; they aren't as good though.hotogenic:


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