# The warning from the USDA: Platymeris biguttata



## Takumaku (Nov 25, 2007)

I kepted hearing about assassins being illegal to own, but I couldn't find any documentation from the USDA.  So I posed the question to the USDA: Are Platymeris biguttata (white spot assassin) legally allowed to be owned/imported into the US?  Their response is priceless.

Response from the USDA:

_Yes, but only into USDA APHIS Inspected Containment Facilities.  We are currently not inspecting private residences as containment facilities. 

Regards, 

Senior Entomologist
USDA/APHIS, Plant Protection and Quarantine
Evaluation and Permitting of Regulated Organisms & Soil _


----------



## dtknow (Nov 25, 2007)

What?!? That makes no sense.


----------



## Takumaku (Nov 25, 2007)

my point exactly...


----------



## mr.wilderness (Nov 25, 2007)

dtknow said:


> What?!? That makes no sense.


Since when has the usda _ever_ made sense with their decisions regarding bugs and stuff??  Don't act so shocked


----------



## nepenthes (Nov 25, 2007)

I can understand keeping some insects illegal. Ones that can become invasive, and wreak havoc on the environment! (Unforunetaly this applies to almost all ants, and allot of insects). But how do they expect us invert lovers away from our addiction, when they wont give us a strait forward answer?

Its kind of like the IRS and the law that says we have to pay federal taxes. :? 

They don't want to say its OK, cause its not, but they want you to get the idea that they really only want USDA approved facilities to keep insects like that. They would rather you keep boring US native insects. Even though their are huge numbers of amazing insects in the USA but unfortunately they are hard to rear!


----------



## Tleilaxu (Nov 26, 2007)

LOL Perhaps someone should tell them that USA insects are hard to rear and suggest that they help find ways to rear them to make it easier for the hobbiest that way they will be contributing to solution and not the problem (USDA)


----------



## vvx (Nov 26, 2007)

nepenthes said:


> Its kind of like the IRS and the law that says we have to pay federal taxes. :?


Actually the IRS/tax laws are pretty clear, once you find the applicable section. And it's not that hard to find really, as long as you know what you're looking for exists. The only real problem is there's so many tax credits and deductions that most people have probably missed tax savings because they didn't know they existed. But if you know they exist finding out how to fill out the form and how it applies to your situation is pretty easy.


----------



## lucanidae (Nov 26, 2007)

Although the wording might be a little confusing the statement is very clear to me.

You need a permit to keep those bugs.
They aren't currently inspecting private residences for permit applications.

Therefore, unless you have a building outside of your own residence, you can't get a permit, and thus, can't keep exotic insects legally.


----------



## Tleilaxu (Nov 26, 2007)

Which means then that the people who are asking for them or who have them may be expecting a visit from the USDA if they mentioned their collection on this forum as it is monitored.


----------



## KyuZo (Nov 26, 2007)

as long as you don't have anything illegal,i wouldn't worry about it:liar:.  
and the USDA can come by my house for some tea any day, as long as they let me know a day in advance so that i can set up some nails and traps;P:evil:.  just kidding just kidding


----------



## Ted (Nov 26, 2007)

Anyone else get the feeling that Tleilaxu knows someone in the USDA?


----------



## Tleilaxu (Nov 26, 2007)

I have heard of accounts of people from this forum that have had their walking sticks and assassins seized and destroyed so I try to warn people to prevent that from happening and no I am not affiliated with the USDA in anyway LOL


----------



## KyuZo (Nov 26, 2007)

Ted said:


> Anyone else get the feeling that Tleilaxu knows someone in the USDA?


yea, i think he is!!! snitcher!!! jk jk ;P


----------



## Takumaku (Nov 26, 2007)

> I have heard of accounts of people from this forum ...


This was one of the main reasons that I asked the USDA myself.  I was getting tired of hearing third party information.  I am still talking to the entomologist and hopefully will have some true documentation (other than emails) that I can post.  It's my second pet peeve: until I can see/feel/touch/smell/taste true documentation (w/ company logo or published in a respected journal), emails and conversations are taking as nothing more than hearsay.


----------



## KyuZo (Nov 26, 2007)

wow, so serious... :worship:


----------



## Tleilaxu (Nov 26, 2007)

KyuZo said:


> yea, i think he is!!! snitcher!!! jk jk ;P


I'd never rat out my fellow arachnoboards members LOL why do you think I go through the trouble of warning people. On a more serious note it REALLY ticks ME off when the government attempts to dictate what we can and cannot have. Now granted there are some valid reasons that certain species shouldd not be allowed in but the government just passes blanket bans without doing their research or talking to people in the hobby. I HIGHLY doubt that the spotted assassins, tropical mantids and walkingsticks, or AGMs are going to bring ruin upon US crop production or bee populations.

Temperate parthenogenic walking sticks are a different matter entirely...


----------



## KyuZo (Nov 26, 2007)

Tleilaxu said:


> Temperate parthenogenic walking sticks are a different matter entirely...


I was going to say something about the walking stick, but i think your last sentence covered it.


----------



## Takumaku (Nov 29, 2007)

Time for an update...

I am still talking with the senior entomologist at the USDA about the assassins.  I have furthur requested official documentation stating that assassins can only be kepted by USDA APHIS Inspected Containment Facilities.  The entomologist couldn't provide the documentation as he didn't know where (or if) it existed, but has sent my request to someone more senior.  Hopefully, I should have something else to update within a week.


----------



## arachnocat (Nov 29, 2007)

Cool. It's really hard to get a straight answer about keeping inverts from them. I've spoken to several of their entomologists and asked "how do I know if an invert is legal to keep or not?" their response was "try to apply for a permit". So all I could really get out of them is that all inverts not native to your state are illegal to keep without a permit. Predatory insects were the exception, but now there seems to be an issue with assassins and mantids. So who knows.


----------



## dtknow (Nov 29, 2007)

I think temperate "native" species are much more of a potential. Somene on these boards is selling wheel bugs. Which would have a better chance of establishing in my state CA? Wheelbugs, or some tropical species? 
I also think that large tropical beetles, butterflies, moths, mantids are little threat to agriculture in the US.


----------



## Takumaku (Nov 29, 2007)

ummm...Wheel Bug (Arilus cristatus) is found in CA already.

The North American reach for the Wheel Bug includes Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, Washington, West Virginia, Wisconsin, Wyoming.

Basically, it's found in every state except Hawaii.


----------



## dtknow (Nov 29, 2007)

Really? Most sources I've read state they only live East of the Rockies.

Ok, better example...Cecropia moth or Antherea pernyi(from China) vs.  SA Rothschilda species at establishing in CA.


----------



## Ameivaboy (Sep 22, 2010)

Hi,

This is my first post here and I know this is a really old post but..
 I am wondering if anyone has cleared up the situation regarding the legalities of Assassin Bugs?

Thanks.


----------



## DITB (Sep 22, 2010)

way to revive a thread kevin 
from what i have gathered its still a "keep at your own risk" kinda thing much like mantids but i dont think the USDA has really bothers to regulate either(yet) as much as they do phasmids and beetles


----------



## Ameivaboy (Sep 22, 2010)

Takumaku said:


> Time for an update...
> 
> I am still talking with the senior entomologist at the USDA about the assassins.  I have furthur requested official documentation stating that assassins can only be kepted by USDA APHIS Inspected Containment Facilities.  The entomologist couldn't provide the documentation as he didn't know where (or if) it existed, but has sent my request to someone more senior.  Hopefully, I should have something else to update within a week.


I'm really interested to see if anything came of this..


----------



## jebbewocky (Sep 24, 2010)

DITB said:


> way to revive a thread kevin
> from what i have gathered its still a "keep at your own risk" kinda thing much like mantids but i dont think the USDA has really bothers to regulate either(yet) as much as they do phasmids and beetles


Depends on the mantid species. Native species are 100% legal
to keep, and the USDA considers European and Chinese mantids to be native because they are so well established already. The concern isn'tthe mantid itself, but the mantid's gut fauna.
Legal at a federal level at any rate. State, county, and city laws may vary.


----------



## Matt K (Sep 28, 2010)

Everyone overlooked something in the USDA reply, as it makes perfect sense to anyone who can read for the most part:

IMPORTATION of P.bigutatta can only occur directly into a government approved facility.  Currently, the government is NOT inspecting private residences in order to establish them as government approved facilities, so a private residence may not import P.bigutatta.  

The response addresses the importation implied in the OP's post, and makes no mention of "if they are legal to own", because they are not inspecting private residences unless in connection with illegal importation.  Hence- you buy some from Joe Blow at a bug or reptile show, or online from a domestic seller- legal.  Importation- not legal.

I have worked with USDA /APHIS in the past, been inspected, and probably still unknowingly under thier watchful eye, and all of thier regulations are very clearly listed on thier website assuming you can think about what you are reading.  The problem with most Americans is that they are too easily confused and have limited reading comprehension skills resulting from poor schooling.


----------

