# Breeding Damon diadema



## dtknow (Oct 11, 2007)

Ok, courtesy of KenTheBugGuy I got a beautiful male D. diadema. I have some questions though.

This male is smaller than my female(she's huge and molted for me recently also). Will that cause any problems?

How should I go about introducing them?


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## lucanidae (Oct 11, 2007)

Put the male into the females container.  Watch carefully, they should find each other pretty quickly and you will know fairly soon whether or not she will accept him.  If she's REALLY aggressive (often first encounters look scary but are not) you should remove him and try again later.  If things don't look to harsh, they can continue all the way until she has babies on her back.  You can count the number of times they mated by the number of white sperm stalks left on the bark.


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## dtknow (Oct 11, 2007)

What does the mating look like? Do I have a good chance of witnessing the actual spermatophore deposition/pickup?


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## dtknow (Oct 11, 2007)

Ok, male is in the female's critter keeper. After walking for a bit one of his whips touched the females and she immediately became excited and her pedipalps opened. They were on the opposite sides of a piece of cork bark. After several taps the male backed away and then went to get a drink. They are now on opposite sides of the cork bark. The female waving her whips around. The male appears to be cleaning his pedipalps.


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## JesseD (Oct 11, 2007)

I bred these guys twice. I just left the male and female together all the time well until it was near hatching time. Then I separated the female from the male. I never witnessed the depositing of the spermatophore, but finding one is a good sign that pretty soon you'll see your female will have eggs! Keep them humid with lots of vertical cage furniture with dark hiding spots. Humid I mean I kept mine at more than 80%. Enjoy!


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## dtknow (Oct 12, 2007)

Thanks for the info! I am kind of nervous about leaving him in there as I am afraid of him getting munched. But right now they are ignoring each other.


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## dtknow (Oct 12, 2007)

after some recent events...the male and females pedipalps are about indentical length. Of course, the females are much more powerful looking. 

A few times upon whip contact the female avoided the male. I added in some water and for some reason the male began moving away from it and coincidentally touched the female. After some tentative brushes she came out and they came face to face. Both individuals, the female in particular, were vibrating their whips like crazy and the female appeared to be trying to gauge the size of the male. The distance would be closed and before long the male would reach forward and it appeared like he was attempting to grab the female...who would back up and then come closer again and perhaps return the favor. Eventually, the male got nervous and retreated away to the other side of the corkbark...which was smoother and the drama started again this time with lots of pushing and shoving. While the male was the shyer of the two eventually he got boisterous enough that the female backed up. Currently they are whips length of each other occasionally opening there pedipalps.


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## dtknow (Oct 12, 2007)

This morning they were still going at it. I found them side by side caressing each other with their whips, and face to face with the male appearing to try open the females pedipalps on a few occasions. But everything looks very peaceful, a bit less animated than yesterday. I came back and found a spermatophore deposited. I wisht I was able to see the actual deposition and guiding. I suspect he probably deposited it, unhooked one of the female's pedipalps and like two people walking hand in hand guided her over it. 

How long is it in between matings typically? I want to see the actual deposition and apparently they did it in the daytime so no need to stay up late.


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## dtknow (Oct 12, 2007)

The new couple enjoying each other's company.   you can see the spermatophore a little ways above the male.






Closeup of male






female up close


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## lucanidae (Oct 12, 2007)

Seems like everything is going well! You'll probably see 4-6 spermatophore stalks  left over, than you'll know the male has definitely done his job and you can rehouse him if you'd like, sometimes the females get randomly aggressive in the weeks after mating.


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## JesseD (Oct 13, 2007)

dtknow,

I could be totally wrong, but yes the pedipalps do look exactly the same in that picture. Those are boths males. Not male and female. Female's palps are half the size. I just hope I am wrong for your sake.


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## dtknow (Oct 13, 2007)

JesseD: The top one is a female, according to a very reliable source. Notice how much larger she is, and also that her palps are much bulkier than the males. At this size, a male's pedipalps would extend far past the first pair of walking legs. Her abdomen is also squared off at the rear, as opposed to pointed like the male.  As far as I can see the spermatophore has been accepted, so I'm sure it is a pair.

lucanidae: Yes, will do. They are now hanging out side by side and the female is much more active than she was previously. Now she waves her whips around to find the male. The male seems to be doing these flexing/stretching pedipalp workouts...look real weird!


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## JesseD (Oct 14, 2007)

Oh ok. Sorry my mistake. It's just my male was actually bigger than my female I had. What was really neat is that they hung out together often in a 33 gal tank full of big cork bark pieces.


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## dtknow (Oct 15, 2007)

Yeah. They seem quite affectionate actually.

how long from mating til eggs are produced?


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## JesseD (Oct 17, 2007)

I think it was about month. If was over a year ago. I'd say don't worry about it right now. I was surprised how easy it was. Just don't let the temp go below 70 and not above 80, keep em very humid and feed the female well. GUTLOAD THOSE CRICKETS!


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## dtknow (Oct 18, 2007)

Yeah. Thefemale could care less but I've seen the male visiting the water dish multiple times.


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## Zman16 (Oct 18, 2007)

How big is the cage your keeping them in?


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## JesseD (Oct 18, 2007)

I kept them in a 33 gal. A friend of mine bred them just fine in a 15 gal. I think it's as long as they have enough space to move around, hunt and maybe get some space from each other if needed they do quite well. My key factors seem to be the humidity, temperature and food. I think I had 42 babies the first time around. Then the second time maybe about 5-6 months later gave me 26, but the female died soon after. I guess she was old.


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## dtknow (Oct 18, 2007)

Someone on here knows of one that has lived for 15 years and was imported as an adult. Perhaps they need to be rested between breedings?

Mine are in a 2.5 gallon critter keeper.


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## Zman16 (Oct 19, 2007)

Is it possible to have a pair of Damon diadema in a 2.5 gallon? If so I'm getting two.


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## dtknow (Oct 19, 2007)

Seemed like plenty of room for one. As for two...well I'll get back to you in a few months if my male is still around...LOL

If I get nervous there is always another enclosure for him to be put in.


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## 8+) (Oct 19, 2007)

I think what you have is a young male with an older female. Notice how while his chelae are shorter than the females, they are longer in relation to the first femurs.

I think I messed up on the humidity, one of mine dropped her eggs.


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## dtknow (Oct 21, 2007)

Sorry to hear that 8+)....think it was too dry?

Yep, indeed this is a young guy with an older lady.


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## Brettus (Oct 22, 2007)

> Yeah. They seem quite affectionate actually.


I was reading that this species is one of the most 'social' of the arachnids.  This university conducting research into them said that the female calms her offspring by stroking them with her whips, and that if you put two siblings in an unfamiliar tank they seek each other out.  Stuff I spose you can observe when hopefully you have a whole family


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## JesseD (Oct 22, 2007)

Yeah until one sibling gets bigger than the other and decides one to have some fine family cuisine.


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## M.F.Bagaturov (Oct 23, 2007)

I'm second one thinking that You have two females or the lower specimen is an immature male, that's You should have no success in breeding either.
But they can still cohabiting very well as they're the nice species of amblypygi which can live communnlly in rather large numbers and of different generations.

If You look for some educated materials for You on these, find the time to read this: 
Linda S. Rayor & Lisa Anne Taylor (2006) Social behavior in amblypygids, and a reassessment of arachnid social patterns. The Journal of Arachnology, Volume 34, Number 2

Here, You can see how the adult male looks different (note the ) comparing to the adult female.


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## lucanidae (Oct 23, 2007)

If he didn't have a mature male, he wouldn't have gotten sperm packets deposited.  The mating was succesful, eggs are usually found on the underside of the female in 1-3 months and take about 90 days to hatch. High humidity is important especially during this time. They then spend a week on the mother's back and then molt to the free living form.  Groups of siblings do not usually begin to get agressive for almost a year.  Sometimes one will outsize the others in 6 months and get a little pushy, but cannabilism is rare. Oh yes, and Dr. Rayor's paper is very good, I've been carrying for her colonies and listening to her talk on these for a few years now.


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## M.F.Bagaturov (Oct 23, 2007)

Sure, as he doesn't had adult male in fact there should be no sperm-pockets.
Frankly spesking I don't saw any in my case, but the male is indeed is clear.
That's what i have for some time now. Can't wait for eggs will hatch out.


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## lucanidae (Oct 23, 2007)

> Sure, as he doesn't had adult male in fact there should be no sperm-pockets.


He does have sperm stalks, you can see them in his pictures. Thus, he does have a mature male. 

QED.


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## dtknow (Oct 23, 2007)

He's a little guy, but he got the job done.

What temps should I be keeping these at for this time? They are at the low 70's in the day perhaps dropping lower during the night. I could warm them a bit during the day but not sure about changing the night temps.

Should I decrease ventilation to maintain higher humidity? Currently I just flood the substrate periodically and any humidity is quickly lost(critter keeper). The female doesn't drink much but the male drinks a lot from the water dish and the substrate.

M. F. Bagaturov: Wowee...that is a lot of eggs! Hope they do well for you.

lucanidea: Any opinion on the need to rest the females? I know that some reptiles(geckos) can literally breed to death. Wonder if the same holds true for these. Since it takes more than half a year in the wild to raise the offspring the probbaly breed only a little more than once a year in the wild.


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## lucanidae (Oct 23, 2007)

We use kritter keepers with some plastic wrap over the parts of the lid.  The cages are flooded once a week, and tend to be dry by the next flooding.  We keep ours in the mid 70's at all times, but I don't think it will make a difference except maybe to slow down the process a little.

Big arachnid breeding is usually seasonal, thus you would expect a yearly breeding maximum.  Less breeding will almost certainly prolong the females life, as will recharge periods.  Our oldest females certainly have not produced clutches every year.


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## dtknow (Oct 24, 2007)

i'll add some plastic wrap then.

One more thing...is it possible at all to observe the presence of eggs when you are looking at the girl from above? She is quite plump now.


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## M.F.Bagaturov (Oct 24, 2007)

Hello!



dtknow said:


> He's a little guy, but he got the job done.
> 
> What temps should I be keeping these at for this time? They are at the low 70's in the day perhaps dropping lower during the night. I could warm them a bit during the day but not sure about changing the night temps.
> Should I decrease ventilation to maintain higher humidity? Currently I just flood the substrate periodically and any humidity is quickly lost(critter keeper). The female doesn't drink much but the male drinks a lot from the water dish and the substrate.
> ...


You should not change the condition, at least at any decent character, only maintain the humidity of hi level.
They suffer of higher temp to death.
As for the arachnids bred to death i believe nobody can be sure, but some doubts were existed. But I don't think that any of these long-lives bred over once per year and with some older ages the gap between the breedings are biger  and biger as it is known for tarantulas


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## M.F.Bagaturov (Oct 24, 2007)

Hi!



dtknow said:


> i'll add some plastic wrap then.
> One more thing...is it possible at all to observe the presence of eggs when you are looking at the girl from above? She is quite plump now.


You can see it clearly as the female's sac is cristal clear and the eggs seen very good - like on the pic of mine of the same species like Yours.

Sorry, I miss the pictires where does spermatophor presented - can You point me on it? Thanks!


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## 8+) (Oct 25, 2007)

M.F.Bagaturov said:


> Sorry, I miss the pictires where does spermatophor presented - can You point me on it? Thanks!


Look right in front of the male's left chela, in the pics on the first page of this thread.


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## 8+) (Oct 26, 2007)

dtknow said:


> Sorry to hear that 8+)....think it was too dry?


Yes KK... I have plastic wrap over it now.

But, good news is my other female has babies on her back!!! They're in an opaque container, but I'll try to get some pics.


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## dtknow (Oct 26, 2007)

Ok. Will add plastic wrap to mine also!


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## dtknow (Oct 30, 2007)

They've since mated again. No sign of eggs though.


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## dtknow (Nov 19, 2007)

They've mated 3 times total. 

The female is very plump looking...but I have no way to see her underside for the eggs! And no I don't plan on poking at her to find out. Hopefully i'll catch her strolling around in the night.


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## 8+) (Nov 22, 2007)

The babies left the mother's back and since they all congregated on a piece of slate in the water bowl, I just lifted out the slate and put them in their own enclosure. Four of them drowned in the water  ; leaving me with 17 babies!

They are eating pinhead crix, and doing well...


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## dtknow (Dec 31, 2007)

I've just got some clears views of her underside since she has been rather active lately...wandering around. Though she is plump, their are no eggs, yet.  

*to himself* "Patience, young grasshoppa..."


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