# I saw my first AGB millipede baby today!!!



## J Morningstar (Apr 22, 2012)

With 10 adults of the original 12 remaining I saw my first young AGB baby today! It's been nearly a year or more and thousands of isopods are in with them and ...there it was! I will get pics the next time I see one. I am so very excited!

Reactions: Like 1


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## SDCPs (Apr 22, 2012)

AWESOME! But don't you think the isopods might be crowding out the babies? The one reason I was hesitant to add them to my enclosure!


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## MrCrackerpants (Apr 22, 2012)

J Morningstar said:


> With 10 adults of the original 12 remaining I saw my first young AGB baby today! It's been nearly a year or more and thousands of isopods are in with them and ...there it was! I will get pics the next time I see one. I am so very excited!


This ^^^ is SO great!! What have you been feeding them? I have 8 adults and I am hoping for babies.


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## Galapoheros (Apr 23, 2012)

Finally, right?  Nothing over here.  I haven't seen newly born AGBs before.


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## MrCrackerpants (Apr 23, 2012)

Galapoheros said:


> Finally, right?  Nothing over here.  I haven't seen newly born AGBs before.


How many do you have?


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## J Morningstar (Apr 23, 2012)

I've seen two, they are a centimeter long but, I put nothing in that could have locals and they are perfect little replicas(well stouter, cuter, but the same) I want to relocate the millis to another tank alltogether soon, it is just that this tank I want to be perfect and it is going to take a great deal of effort to create. I am strating it off with a few adults then slowly transfereing the rest over slowly. No regular iso's, careful instruction, and all my experience. it's gonna kick butt. But yes....after a decade at this...babies! Now just to keep it self perpetuating...


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## belljar77 (Apr 23, 2012)

Congrats! It must be a good year for them, I've counted seven babies in my tank so far. They seem to like maple syrup, just a drop or two on the sub. Good luck!


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## MrCrackerpants (Apr 23, 2012)

J Morningstar said:


> I've seen two, they are a centimeter long but, I put nothing in that could have locals and they are perfect little replicas(well stouter, cuter, but the same) I want to relocate the millis to another tank alltogether soon, it is just that this tank I want to be perfect and it is going to take a great deal of effort to create. I am strating it off with a few adults then slowly transfereing the rest over slowly. No regular iso's, careful instruction, and all my experience. it's gonna kick butt. But yes....after a decade at this...babies! Now just to keep it self perpetuating...


What diet do you recommend?


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## Galapoheros (Apr 24, 2012)

MrCrackerpants said:


> How many do you have?


Two males and two females, they aren't mine though.  A pet store here said they didn't have the time to spend on trying to get babies so I took them home in hopes of it.  Personally I would keep what most people would think to be too many for security reasons.  Seems like you should see a lot more soon.


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## J Morningstar (Apr 24, 2012)

Galapoheros said:


> Two males and two females, they aren't mine though.  A pet store here said they didn't have the time to spend on trying to get babies so I took them home in hopes of it.  Personally I would keep what most people would think to be too many for security reasons.  Seems like you should see a lot more soon.


While I can still get some more adults I plan to get about 5 more to make the total adult population 15. But yes with constant mating from one of the four pairs and the fact that when you see one millipede baby there are usually many more, I am hopeful.
The diet is a leaf of romaine a day with the same roachfood I made up last year with cat food any fresh vegetables I can find, fruit and every once in a while some cooked ground chicken, shredded steak, and some bones with cartilage attached. They seem to eat most "forest floor debris" yes and some oak leaf matter as well..oh yes the roach food is only once a week or less often. But in warmer weather more often.


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## MrCrackerpants (Apr 27, 2012)

Do you keep isopods with your millipedes? I do and I wonder if they are eating my millipede eggs.


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## J Morningstar (May 12, 2012)

Here it is folks! I know this forum is a bunch of rumor without the photo to back it up. Baby Pics!

Reactions: Like 1


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## MrCrackerpants (May 12, 2012)

Cool. You do have a lot of terrestrial isopods in there.


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## belljar77 (May 13, 2012)

Some of mine.


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## J Morningstar (May 13, 2012)

Beautiful Babies!


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## belljar77 (May 13, 2012)

Thank you, yours too! I'm so glad we'll be able to make these beauties more readily available.


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## sinflspeed (May 15, 2012)

I wouldn't disturb them as they feed off of the parents droppings. I would I turn try to remove the Isopoda if you feel you need too. I have had witnessed about 4-5 babies in my group as well so there should be some cb babies to go around for the masses.


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## SDCPs (May 17, 2012)

Or keep your colony running.


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## Kimix (May 19, 2012)

Here is a photo of my Giant African Blacks, showing a split egg with the zygote, and some early instars (although I'm not sure if its called instars in millipedes)


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## Galapoheros (May 19, 2012)

Wow thanks for that pic Kimix!, been wondering about that kind of thing.  But what I'm thinking here is why aren't more being seen in your tank JM, I've read some people say they get 100's at a time.  It makes me wonder if these are from the few eggs that the isopods missed(?).  I think I'm going to temporarily move the ones over here to an isopod free tub and see how it goes for a while.


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## Kimix (May 19, 2012)

If you see one baby, odds are there are many more. The babies stay buried until they reach a certain size.   If you put a piece of apple with something on top (piece of cork, plastic, water bowl, ect) and check back in a day or two you might see some of the babies on the apple. I do not recommend digging for them as you could easily crush them while they are young and soft.

But I'll also tell you one of my sad stories, I had eggs, but a major lack of babies. I couldn't figure out what was wrong, so I moved every millipede and the few babies I could find into a new tank. I left the old tank sitting as is for months b/c I didn't want to risk tossing any good eggs or babies. 

When I finally cleaned the tank out, I carefully went thru all the dirt and I found the head section of a large beetle. So I assume the beetle larva was having a grand 'ol time snacking on my baby millipedes.  so so sad  

Giant African Black Eggs laid against the glass


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## Galapoheros (May 20, 2012)

Good info there also!  What is your experience with isopods eating eggs, anything there?  Really, it makes sense to me isopods would eat the eggs if they found them, ...why not?  They eat just about everything else organic.  Most scientists wouldn't know the answer to this question imo because many focus on taxonomy, "only" dealing with dead specimens, being ID experts but not knowing much about breeding and husbandry hurdles.


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## Kimix (May 20, 2012)

I have never kept isopods with my millipedes. Years ago when I first started keeping pedes the thinking was that isopods were bad with the pedes. Although if I recall correctly it was because people thought the isopods might collapse dirt on top of the new born pedes and squish them, not because of egg eating.

Now though, it seems most people do keep isopods with their millipedes. 

If I happen to get lucky and find eggs again I will do an experiment, I'll remove an egg or two and move them into a container with some isopods and watch the results. Actually one of my friends just found N. americanus eggs last week. I'll ask him if hes willing to test.

Personally, I don't think they will eat the eggs (unless maybe starved). You find millipedes and isopods in all the same spots outside, and I don't think it would make sense from an evolutionary standpoint if millipedes laid their eggs next to an egg predator.


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## Galapoheros (May 20, 2012)

That's something to think about for sure.  There's not so much the overcrowded thing going on in nature with the isopods.  It might be the case that there are much fewer under a log that if they do eat the eggs if found, much more of them make it.  But I too have wondered if the pill leave them alone just because they are so similar, you know, the design and with their defenses, once they're babies anyway.  I plan to move these for a while and see what happens.


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## J Morningstar (May 21, 2012)

I have always seen millipedes and isopods living here in NYS in the same areas. I do know that the African GB millipedes do not smell as much as the millipedes here and being their smell is usually a byproduct of their secretions, maybe the fluids of an African GB millipede are not "acrid" enough to keep isopods heree from eating their young. I too am going to try an isopod free enclosure sooner than later...and and yea no clue how many young but there is about 10 gallons of substrate in there to be crawling around in..


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## Galapoheros (May 21, 2012)

I finally moved the ones I have left today to an isopod free terr, I'm really lazy sometimes.  I really doubt the isopods would eat hatched millipedes, it's only the eggs I'm wondering about being eaten by them.  How many have you seen so far JM?  Even if you only get 5 to 10, at least you know you could keep them going.  I bet you have a lot more in there though.


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## zonbonzovi (May 22, 2012)

Galapoheros said:


> Good info there also!  What is your experience with isopods eating eggs, anything there?  Really, it makes sense to me isopods would eat the eggs if they found them, ...why not?  They eat just about everything else organic.  Most scientists wouldn't know the answer to this question imo because many focus on taxonomy, "only" dealing with dead specimens, being ID experts but not knowing much about breeding and husbandry hurdles.


As you suspect, here's my Q and reply from a an isopod researcher:

Greetings Dr. Wilson,

I am sure you're very busy so I'll keep it brief: I'm an insect hobbyist and have been raising and utlilizing various isopods as tank cleaners, especially in captive settings with detrivores that require higher moisture levels.  Two questions that seem to be repeated throughout the hobby but lack proper evidence are:

-Do isopods consume the eggs of mites?

-Do isopods consume the eggs of millipedes?

My understanding is that most isopods are omnivorous but tend to only eat material from expired animals whereas they will eat living plant material.  Any insight that you can offer would be fantastic, especially if you can point me in the direction of papers/books/etc. that I can share with the hobbyist community.  Thank you for your time

"Dear Mr Skierski
"Don't know for certain" for both of your questions. Terrestrial isopods are known to be detrital shredders and certainly eat lots of plant derived material - like leaf litter, and possibly fungi. Because the eggs could be amongst the leaf litter, one could guess that they might eat eggs of other animals. Freshwater isopods that have similar diets can on occasion eat animals or animal-derived material.
Here's a book that you might find in a university library.
Alikhan, M. A. 1995. Terrestrial Isopod Biology. A.A. Balkema International Publishers, Brookfield, Vermont, USA; Rotterdam, Netherlands.
Cheers

George D.F. (Buz) Wilson
Australian Museum (Marine Invertebrates)"


Sigh.  Time for some experimentation.


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## SDCPs (May 22, 2012)

For those of you having success, do you use heat pads?


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## J Morningstar (May 23, 2012)

I;ve seen 2 at once at best, but agreeded I bet there is alot more...


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## Galapoheros (May 23, 2012)

That's about as much as I expected john, thanks for going for it.  I tried asking a career scientist something having to do with breeding pedes a long time ago, they didn't know anything about it.  That's when I realized the formal science is focused on taxonomy mostly, I've assumed anyway.


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## MrCrackerpants (May 23, 2012)

Great thread with lots of good info. I need to also set up some milli enclosures without terrestrial isopods. Do you plan to have springtails with your isopod-free enclosures?


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## Elytra and Antenna (May 27, 2012)

Kimix said:


> Giant African Black Eggs laid against the glass


Are you sure you don't have Mardonius? That's not the way Archispirostreptus normally lay eggs.



Kimix said:


> Here is a photo of my Giant African Blacks, showing a split egg with the zygote, and some early instars (although I'm not sure if its called instars in millipedes)


 Protonymph may not be the perfect name for the stage between egg and first instar but zygote is a cell formed by the union of two gametes.


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## Kimix (May 29, 2012)

AHHH now I'm horribly confused. How do I know if I have Mardonius or Archispirostreptus??? I didn't even realize there was a similar looking species. 

Although if thats the way that Mardonius lay eggs, I guess mine are Mardonius

All my millipedes were purchased as Giant African Blacks from multiple sources. Or maybe both of those are called Giant African Blacks?

---------- Post added 05-29-2012 at 10:28 PM ----------

After an initial panic of having mis-ID'd my pedes for years, I have googled and I understand the difference. It does appear I have Mardonius based on the appearance of my largest babies, although for all I know I may have both mixed together as well and never realized it. 

Am I correct in seeing that the common name "Giant African Black Millipede" is used for both sp?


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## Elytra and Antenna (May 30, 2012)

Kimix said:


> Am I correct in seeing that the common name "Giant African Black Millipede" is used for both sp?


 The only common name for that one is black Congo millipede. They are a lot easier to breed but they don't get nearly as big (still a nice sized critter). I'm sure they'd sell a lot better as AGB but AGB is supposed to be Archispirostreptus....


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## SDCPs (Jun 2, 2012)

How come this species is not more readily avaliable?: http://users.usachoice.net/~swb/pet_arthropod/mill.htm

I tried to get them but found A. gigas more readily available. I mean if they grow faster and breed well, but are just a tad smaller (8", that's a good size!), why not substitute?


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## Galapoheros (Jun 13, 2012)

Just noticed, if it's not my imagination, that since I moved the millis to an isopod free terr, not only did they seem to calm down, but I think I see an increase in the native mites they have running around on them.  See anymore babies btw?


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## EbonyKatana1664 (Jun 18, 2012)

Coolio pics you have there.


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## SkyeSpider (Jun 18, 2012)

Two adults for us and they've been mating like crazy. About a year now, and still no babies. Fingers are still crossed.

I like the idea of adding isopods to keep things cleaner. May have to do that soon.


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