# ephebopus murinus venom potency?



## jgod790 (Mar 21, 2013)

So I was curious about E murinus venom potency, so I looked in the bite report section, and the only one I found was a dry bite. I have read that for a new world, they have some decently potent venom. Has anyone had a wet bite from one? I have one and on occasion I like to handle it, though I know I shouldn't. She is by no means docile. On another note, I am curious, what new world has the highest venom toxicity?


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## tyrantuladub (Mar 21, 2013)

I'm curious about this as well. I heard that they're good for people wanting to start keeping more aggressive T's because they're bite isn't as bad as some. Mine seems to be decently chill so far, well for an _E. murinus_ that is... Still super skittish and fast though. Just an awesome looking spider though haha.


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## jgod790 (Mar 21, 2013)

I don't like to play favorites, but my E. murinus has got to be one of my favorite T's. She is REALLY fast, and really defensive. But if I get her crawling up her enclosure wall, with the lid off, she will crawl on my hand. And as long as I don't touch her other then her just being on me, she won't bite. Getting her back in can be a challenge. I love the way they look, and think it is cool how they flick there hair's. And she has webbed the CRAP out of her enclosure. Really cool looking threat posture to. I could go on all day. I think every one who has T's NEEDS to have a E. murinus.


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## tyrantuladub (Mar 21, 2013)

jgod790 said:


> I think every one who has T's NEEDS to have a E. murinus.


This. I mean they're just awesome. I got mine for a steal and I hope it molts out female for me. As a pet store T also. I just happened to walk in the day they got her and then as soon as I was made aware to her presence I swiftly got her into a take-home cup and bought her haha. She has expanded the starter burrow I made for her and is pretty active around 10 p.m.

She's also somewhat of a turd; silly spider has decided that her water dish doubles as a trash can as she has put bolus in it and dirt from where she's dug.

:sarcasm:


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## spiderengineer (Mar 21, 2013)

I would imagine since its a new world it venom potency is not that painful


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## jgod790 (Mar 21, 2013)

spiderengineer said:


> I would imagine since its a new world it venom potency is not that painful


Yea, I'm sure it doesn't compare to pokies or obt's, but I have read that it is strong for new worlds.


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## spiderengineer (Mar 21, 2013)

jgod790 said:


> Yea, I'm sure it doesn't compare to pokies or obt's, but I have read that it is strong for new worlds.


I mean all venom, old word or new world, is different from each other, but usually new world is milder compared to old world. so I would imagine it may have some punch to it then say a rose. another thing to consider also is everybody react differently to venom so it also hard to say how it will affect you, but I would rather get bit by it then the ones you don't want to get bit by


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## jgod790 (Mar 21, 2013)

spiderengineer said:


> I mean all venom, old word or new world, is different from each other, but usually new world is milder compared to old world. so I would imagine it may have some punch to it then say a rose. another thing to consider also is everybody react differently to venom so it also hard to say how it will affect you, but I would rather get bit by it then the ones you don't want to get bit by


 It was very interesting going through the bite reports. Different people had significantly different reactions to the same species. I have been in the hobby for 12 years now, and have never been bit. I would never purposely do it, but I've always been curious as to how it feels. Some how I've managed to handle my obt with out getting tagged.


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## spiderengineer (Mar 21, 2013)

yeah I hear that if your are allergic to been venom then you don't want to get bit period


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## Niffarious (Mar 21, 2013)

spiderengineer said:


> yeah I hear that if your are allergic to been venom then you don't want to get bit period



I keep hearing this, but my understanding is that tarantula venom is made of completely different proteins and that a history (or lack thereof) of allergies to bees/wasps is no indication as to how one might react to a tarantula bite. Can anyone with knowledge about this comment?

For the last few years (since entering my 20's) my allergies are all over the place. I never used to have them at all, but apparently this is common. For that reason I stock benadryl and take zero risks with my T's. Not worth it for the cheap thrill.


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## poisoned (Mar 22, 2013)

AFAIK T venom is hypoallergenic and unrelated to bee venom.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Alltheworld601 (Mar 22, 2013)

the only comparison to bee venom that can be made is pain level.  That's why we hear it so often - that its similar to a bee sting.  The two venoms are completely different compounds.

That said, I also have read (I'm gonna have to go dig up a source), that the differences in venom between OW and NW tarantulas is nil.  They are exactly the same.  So why does one cause lasting effects and the other doesn't?  The answer could be in the amount of venom that gets pumped into you, or scientists just haven't found the chemical that makes the two different yet.  It could be either one or both...but as far as any studies done on the differences between the two - they're made up of the same ingredients.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Shrike (Mar 22, 2013)

Alltheworld601 said:


> the only comparison to bee venom that can be made is pain level.  That's why we hear it so often - that its similar to a bee sting.  The two venoms are completely different compounds.
> 
> That said, I also have read (I'm gonna have to go dig up a source), that the differences in venom between OW and NW tarantulas is nil.  They are exactly the same.  So why does one cause lasting effects and the other doesn't?  The answer could be in the amount of venom that gets pumped into you, or scientists just haven't found the chemical that makes the two different yet.  It could be either one or both...but as far as any studies done on the differences between the two - they're made up of the same ingredients.


I agree with what you're saying about bee and tarantula venom.  Seems like an apples to oranges comparison.  But I don't agree with the notion that Old and New World tarantula venom--basically the venom of all tarantulas--is exactly the same.  They might share a familiar framework, but they're not going to all be chemically identical.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Alltheworld601 (Mar 22, 2013)

I would have said the same thing, but I read it in something that was pretty legit, however, I can't seem to FIND that reference, so I can't prove it.  Go figure.


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## advan (Mar 22, 2013)

spiderengineer said:


> yeah I hear that if your are allergic to been venom then you don't want to get bit period





			
				Venom said:
			
		

> Tell your mom not to worry. The chemical composition of tarantula venom (ALL of them) makes their bites innately hypoallergenic. There is less than a 0.0001% chance of anyone having an allergic reaction to tarantula venom, even if they are already allergic to bee venom. The venoms are THAT different.
> 
> Here's why: most venoms are made up of proteins dissolved in a liquid matrix. Proteins are large molecules, generally speaking, and are easy for your immune system to "detect" and react to. But tarantula venom is made of peptides dissolved in a liquid matrix--and peptides are the building blocks of proteins. As such, the peptides are waaaaaay smaller molecules, and they literally "fly under the radar" of your immune system. Unless your immune system is an extravagantly rare freak of nature, (which I'm not betting on) there is no way you could have a reaction to tarantula venom.
> 
> ...


ATW- Still waiting for that link!


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## Storm76 (Mar 22, 2013)

What I heard about it (never been bitten by mine) is that bites of that species are pretty painful for a day, but that's about it. Either way - the general advice is still: Don't get bitten! Use precautions and you'll be fine.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Alltheworld601 (Mar 22, 2013)

advan said:


> ATW- Still waiting for that link!


I know.  Its lost in the vast expanse of cyberspace.  I promise you that I read that information and that it was somewhere reputable that I'm pretty sure was here on this forum.  But, I can't promise that its absolute fact, only that I read it, and I can't prove it.  So, I apologize if I gave false information.  I didn't mean to..was just saying its something I remember reading.  It stuck in my mind because it made me go "no kidding!"  But man.  I'm gonna run a search here on venom potency and see what comes up...maybe I can at least find the thread that I remember the whole bit spawning from.


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## spiderengineer (Mar 22, 2013)

found this

http://venomics.eu/publications/VT4.pdf

---------- Post added 03-22-2013 at 11:57 PM ----------

in the paper the did test of crude venom of known species of T from the four continents on mice and ephebopus murinus was used and it seems it venom was in the middle range as far as how long it took for the mouse to die.

---------- Post added 03-23-2013 at 12:01 AM ----------

also it seems that all T venom tend to attack the nervous system first


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## jgod790 (Mar 23, 2013)

spiderengineer said:


> found this
> 
> http://venomics.eu/publications/VT4.pdf
> 
> ...


Awesome, thanks. That is pretty much what I was looking for.


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## xTimx (Mar 23, 2013)

i dunno what you guys are going on about...... my Female is quite tame LOL

Reactions: Like 3


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## jgod790 (Mar 23, 2013)

xTimx said:


> i dunno what you guys are going on about...... my Female is quite tame LOL
> 
> View attachment 114515
> View attachment 114516


Oh wow, I don't know if it is just the lighting, but yours has very beautiful coloring. Mine is a lot darker. A LOT darker. Some seem to be docile, mine is rather defensive and skittish. But I do manage to handle her on rare occasion.


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## tyrantuladub (Mar 23, 2013)

jgod790 said:


> Awesome, thanks. That is pretty much what I was looking for.





spiderengineer said:


> found this
> 
> http://venomics.eu/publications/VT4.pdf
> 
> ...


Thanks very much for this, as I had a curiosity as well. It seems that while their venom isn't extremely potent it's a bit more potent than say from an _Avicularia avicularia_.



xTimx said:


> i dunno what you guys are going on about...... my Female is quite tame LOL
> 
> View attachment 114515
> View attachment 114516


Mine seems to be more tame as well. I mean it's still super fast and not very cooperative, but I've only gotten one threat pose so far and that was at the pet store. I'm not sure if I'll be attempting to handle this one or not.


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## jgod790 (Mar 23, 2013)

While you bring it up, has anyone actually been bitten by an avic? I've always looked at avics as the "poodle" genus of tarantulas.


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## tyrantuladub (Mar 23, 2013)

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/search.php?searchid=920617

That's what I found in the bite reports and most of them don't seem too bad.


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## freedumbdclxvi (Mar 23, 2013)

jgod790 said:


> While you bring it up, has anyone actually been bitten by an avic? I've always looked at avics as the "poodle" genus of tarantulas.


the only bite I have received spider wise is from an Avic avic.  I do all my maintenance for Avics without catch cupping them and, one time, she came out and tagged me.  Itched for about 10 mins and that was it.


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## jgod790 (Mar 25, 2013)

freedumbdclxvi said:


> the only bite I have received spider wise is from an Avic avic.  I do all my maintenance for Avics without catch cupping them and, one time, she came out and tagged me.  Itched for about 10 mins and that was it.


I remember reading in the TKG, Shultz mentioned an incident where some one was bit by an avic. And they reported the bite to make them sick and they called out of work. He then stated he thinks the guy was just milking it to get out of work.


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## arachnofab (Mar 29, 2013)

I remember seeing a video of a guy (not sure who) who had been tagged by severely species - he was showing his newly acquired bite marks and as he scanned his arm he had to point out which pair were from the species he was talking about as he had many bite marks up his arm. Either he is very un - careful and shouldnt own T's or he does is to get out of work or get meds from the hospital. What kind of responsible owner is that? Anyway; if you find this guy maybe lend him your T and have him find out for you


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## Ximmanis (Mar 29, 2013)

A guy here on the forums served as guinea pig by provoking bites from all kinds of tarantulas. Username escapes me, but I believe he posted bite reports in Poecilotheria and Heteroscodra sections among others.

Sent from my GT-P5110 using Tapatalk HD


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## Lizardman905 (Mar 29, 2013)

Maybe 2/5 or 3/5


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## JZC (Mar 29, 2013)

this thread makes me want two things: an e.murinus and to do an experiment on tarantulas to milk their venom and study it. nobody use that idea! I call dibs, lol.


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## spiderengineer (Mar 29, 2013)

JZCtarantulafan said:


> this thread makes me want two things: an e.murinus and to do an experiment on tarantulas to milk their venom and study it. nobody use that idea! I call dibs, lol.


its actually hard to milk T venom. you can't do it like they do for snake venom. they only way I have seen it done is to electric shock the T which trigger them to eject venom (its more complicated than this, but its the basic explanation) and even then the amount produce is very small so you need multiple T's of the same species to get a usable quantity.


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