# Calling all Hadrurus arizonensis keepers or better yet... experts



## parabuthus (Sep 14, 2005)

My query...

Have you ever had a H.a. give birth to a brood? If the answer is yes...

1. How long did it take -roughly- for the mother to emerge from her burrow with the scorplings on her back?

2. How long did it take -roughly- for the young to molt for the first time?

3. Was there high cannabalisation?

4. What kind of temp and humidity were you keeping for the scorp at this time?

My H.a. has given birth to a brood, but has yet to surface, and they have yet to molt. At this point I am a little worried, because it may be two weeks now that she has been down there with the scorplings birthed. Any advice would be appreciated.


----------



## prang11 (Sep 14, 2005)

HA, scorpling survival rates in captivity have been notoriously low.  Wish I could give you good advice but I dont think many people know exactly what needs to be done to make these guys survive.  I dont think many people have been able to get them past 4th instar.  I know my 4th-5th instar wouldnt ever molt and died as a young one.  Someone correct me if I am wrong.


----------



## parabuthus (Sep 15, 2005)

Yes, I know they are notoriously difficult to raise in captivity past 3rd instar, this is why I am trying to collect all the information I can in an attempt to get off to a good start. At the moment it seems as though she is taking a LONG time to surface from her burrow, and she will be getting hungry... so I am hoping she doesn't cannibalise her young. The young have also yet to have their first molt, and it seems like that is taking a little longer. So I am wondering about temp and humidity at this point, as I know the young require more humidity, or they will desicate. 

Thanks for the response though.


----------



## parabuthus (Sep 17, 2005)

Just a small update...

Many of the scorplings have came off her back now, but she has still not surfaced and has blocked herself in her burrow. That said, some of them are still on her back.

Some of the scorplings have grown quite a bit too, but have not darkened at all in color at this point. 

I'll report back if anything significant happens i.e. she eats them all, they all eat each other or they all molt successfully  .


----------



## G. Carnell (Sep 17, 2005)

seems like its going well so far 

good luck with it man!


----------



## parabuthus (Sep 17, 2005)

Thanks George!

I am lucky that the spot she has chosen to block herself in at has a window right in because of her burrowing (sometimes they take the sand right off the side of the tank). So I can have a look from time to time and see how everything is going. Although I try to do this scarcely, so as not to stress the mother out and I block the window over for most of the day to help keep any light out.

The scorplings are probably 2 cm in length at this point, but still white in color. Some of them are FAT, I'd assume that maybe they have eaten some of the siblings already, but obviously there is nothing I can do about this.

I have misted the tank lightly, irregularly over the past few weeks to try and create a bit more humidity in the burrow at times, but not overdone it. Getting humidity to 50% for short periods of time. I hope I can atleast get them seperated from the mother and past a second molt, then I can really experiment with it.


----------



## G. Carnell (Sep 17, 2005)

hmmmmmm 

lemme know if you want to sell/trade any!

its useful to have an online account on this, maybe people can follow your setup, if the moulting and everything goes well


----------



## parabuthus (Sep 17, 2005)

George, I plan to set up a website at some point with all my experiences documented as a scorpion keeper. As you know I keep a few of the more popular species in the hobby, so hopefully I can share something with other would-be keepers.

And if I manage to somehow raise these scorplings, I'll definitely do a trade with you! Hehe... fingers crossed.


----------



## parabuthus (Sep 17, 2005)

Well, almost all of them are off her back now and still in the burrow. I am pretty sure I saw an exo-skeleton on her back, meaning they are molting successfully.


----------



## buthidae46290 (Sep 17, 2005)

how can you tell the difference between male and female w/ this species...I recently got 2 and saw what could have been them mating...or fighting...is there anyway to tell w/o counting the pectines(sp)?


----------



## parabuthus (Sep 17, 2005)

I am not sure about the tooth count on the pectines. All I know is that even on the females the pectines are very far sweeping. My female was gravid when I purchased her, so I don't have a male for comparison. Somebody on here may have a rough idea though - ?


----------



## Mandi (Sep 17, 2005)

Ive got a male and a gravid female, one of them has smaller chelicerae although, I couldn't tell you which, because theyre both sealed into their burrows and I cant see them.


----------



## parabuthus (Sep 18, 2005)

The chelicerae on my female are quite large, although I don't have a male for comparison.


----------



## parabuthus (Sep 21, 2005)

It appears as though all the scorplings have molted, with most being darker in color and being much larger. 

They are ALL still in the burrow with the mother and will remain off her back for periods of time before climbing back on. Sometimes they are ALL off her back, then a few hours later nearly all of them are back on (without disturbance). 

The mother will need to eat soon, being extremely slim after giving birth. I just need to keep watch, incase she starts devouring the scorplings. She sat more or less in the same positions for the last 2 weeks, but now she has moved quite a bit inside the burrow, so I think it is almost time.

More updates to come.


----------



## buthidae46290 (Sep 21, 2005)

Congrats on the babies! I checked my pair last night and one of them does have noticably larger chelicerae... Hopefully I'll be in your situation soon-ish.


----------



## TheNothing (Sep 21, 2005)

good luck man...

I figured I'd chime in with two different methods I've come across through the years in regards to getting a H. arizonensis to molt:

1- Refridgeration:
A couple of people have moved their H.a.'s into a refridgeratore for a few minutes, then placed them back into their warm terrariums.  IIRC, it was successful for a number of people and their H.a.'s molted within 72 hours.  Never was the duration in the refridgerator mentioned, though I figure it was for a very short time.  Could simulate Arizona winter (night time lows can reach mid-30sF and occationally touch frost point).

2-Water:
The most recent report came from a respected scorpion keeper.  He opted to give his Hadrurus a "good Mohave rain storm" one night (not too long ago, so maybe I can find the email).  His Hadrurus molted within 24 hours.  Typical Arizona monsoon season begins in July.

just a couple thoughts for molts 3 and 4.


I have tried the monsoon re-enactment, without success.  I've always been a bit fearful of the refridgeration...


----------



## parabuthus (Sep 21, 2005)

Thanks for the advice. I''ll take it in my stride. Currently they are all STILL in the burrow. I've raised humidity a touch and I've prepared to cut into the burrow if need be... that's right, cut, not dig. I have incised the substrate and will remove it if need be with minimal fuss. All the scorplings look great, but they are all still blocked in and the mother is REAL thin. I've got a good feeling that I will get a decent amount of scorplings to try and raise, but I need to be aware. Keeping vigil, so to speak!


----------



## fusion121 (Sep 21, 2005)

TheNothing said:
			
		

> good luck man...
> 
> I figured I'd chime in with two different methods I've come across through the years in regards to getting a H. arizonensis to molt...


Interesting, I hadn't heard about the refrigeration method. I'd be fascinated to see it in action.


----------



## TheNothing (Sep 21, 2005)

It came up on the Unofficial Scorpion mailing list on Yahoo several years ago... hadn't really seen anything about it since...


----------



## parabuthus (Sep 22, 2005)

I might try the refridgeration method on one scorpling. It does make sense... cool it down, then put it back in a warm, rather humid setting... could induce a molt as long as it is well fed and ready - ?

I am going to try the rain thing, for sure. I've been misting the tank irregularly and reasonably heavily into two corners of the tank so far, taking the humidity up just above 50%. There is alot of substrate between the surface and the scorpions, it must be said. I know that adults can't tolerate too much moisture, so the sooner I get the scorplings seperated from the mother, the better.


----------



## parabuthus (Sep 22, 2005)

Lucky window...







I can observe what is going on in the burrow.


----------



## parabuthus (Sep 22, 2005)

Ok, well the time had come...

I decided to infiltrate the burrow after -alarmingly- noticing the mother grab one of the scorplings with a pincer, so I quickly scraped on the substrate and she released the baby immediately.

I then removed a large piece of substrate which I had cut with a blade, however I never cut all the way to the main chamber of the burrow. Instead I used a pen and pushed it through, to create a small passageway. Obviously she got real mad at this. I then herded a small hopper through and she devoured it, then a second... now a third. She badly needed fed, and I think this could be the difference between getting a shot at raising the scorplings or the mother eating them all... I didn't want to interfere, but it has been a month now and I think she was getting hungry to the point of eating her young. Maybe the "window" was confusing her? As she has sat with her pincers open at the window for weeks now, as if it is a burrow opening? Who knows... this is what prompted me to act.

They have all molted and are looking healthy. They have a lovely gold coming through now as their exoskeleton develops. And now the mother is getting fed, while remaining in the burrow with them, which I think is a good thing. And the scorplings can now get out of the burrow through the tiny passage I've made if they want.

As always, I'll keep updating this thread with any new developments...


----------



## Jmadson13 (Sep 22, 2005)

Congratulations, this is definitely much more progress than most have made.


----------



## parabuthus (Sep 22, 2005)

5th (small) hopper is currently being eaten... nothing big is being pushed through though, incase she didn't take it, the scorplings would have to be able to handle it.

The mother is "freaking out" while she eats them, pincers shaking, front legs shaking like mad. Normally they twitch a little when eating, but she is REALLY starved, you can tell by her behaviour... poor girl.


----------



## parabuthus (Sep 23, 2005)

I seperated the mother last night, otherwise I think there would have been no scorplings left this morning. 

That said, they have burrowed into the substrate much further than the original chamber the mother had dug out. Some of the scorplings came out last night for a walk around, they look awesome, and have grown quite a bit already. I  never got a chance to seperate any of them though. I put in a hopper last night, and disabled it a little. It is gone this morning, so they must have ate it.

I also got some good pictures of the mother last night (in the defensive posture after tailing her from the original tank to a secondary one), although I am worried she has a tiny bit of mycosis on the joints of a leg or two, due to higher humidity for the youngsters over the past week or two. Which sucks...

More soon...


----------



## parabuthus (Sep 23, 2005)

Well, the scorplings are scuttling around, very active. I am crushing up small hoppers and tossing them in, as soon as I turn my back they have been dragged into the network of burrows...   

I can't count how many are still alive and kicking, because they have re-dug all the passages that the mother blocked up to give birth, so they are all over the tank! Suffice to say, several are alive and well, I am hoping 10.

I think keeping them in the larger tank for the meantime, well fed, is possibly the best idea to try and achieve the first 3 molts. The reason being that more complex moisture gradients can be achieved with more substrate in a bigger set up, with more places for the scorplings to choose to sit.


----------



## parabuthus (Sep 23, 2005)

As far as the mycosis goes, I never noticed the marks on the scorp when I first got it, but they were there...







Is that mycosis in the joints of that leg (more prominent black)?


----------



## Prymal (Sep 23, 2005)

Congrats on the new scorplings and your achievement thus far. From all I've read, you've definitely gotten further than many and from your updates, looks like you've been doing everything right so far. Best wishes for continued success!


----------



## parabuthus (Sep 23, 2005)

Thanks, I've been keeping a close eye on everything. I really wanted the mother out of there asap, but had to wait quite sometime until her metasoma was sticking out of the burrow; tailed her real quick. She didn't like that. I took these pics right after seperating her...

















I am going to try and get some pics of the scorplings over the weekend. Wish me luck, I need it...


----------



## Prymal (Sep 23, 2005)

Greets-

Quite the beautiful fem (nice photos). Good luck!


----------



## parabuthus (Sep 24, 2005)

I apologise for all these pics, but I feel you could be interested... my H. arizonensis predating a hopper. I actually got video footage of the initial catch and sting, I'll see how it turns out and post a link if it is any use. It was taken on a whim, so I had no time to prepare lighting like I did with these images and it was taken from outside the tank, so there is glare.

In the meantime...


----------



## parabuthus (Sep 24, 2005)

Very poor quality. But you can see what is going on... check out the noisy budgie in the background... if it doesn't shut up, I am going to feed it to my Emp...   

Ofcourse, I am joking.

www.pitofhorror.com/Scorpions/Video/HAvideo.avi - It will play with Windows Media Player. Comparable in size to a typical MP3 file (about 4.57mb), so give it a few minutes to download.

Next video will be prepared properly and longer in duration. I am compiling all these images and video for the website I am building, incase you are wondering. So you get first look...


----------



## parabuthus (Sep 25, 2005)

Ok... I misted the tank HEAVILY in one corner earlier today, and gradually lessened as I misted from one side of the tank to the other, to create a moisture gradient. 

As soon as they felt the "rain", five scorplings emmerged from the tunnel networks. Two of them being larger and having more developed exo-skeletons than the others. Possibly 2nd instar. 

As soon as they immerged almost all of them moved for the heavily misted corner of the tank or nearby. 

Most of the scorplings pulled back their pincers and used their chelicerae to attain water from the substrate. Meanwhile one scorpling, definitely still 1st instar, went to the side of the tank and actually drank from droplets on the side of the tank. They really need alot of water, outside of prey eaten. This is obvious.

Now there could be more than five scorplings, however that is all I saw at any *one* time. Only time will tell and it is likely that some of the bigger ones will eat the smaller ones. I am willing to take that chance and don't mind as long as I can try and raise some past 3rd instar and from there on out.

I have been pre-killing small hoppers for them and cutting up little slices for them from the locust's abdomen. Not a very nice task (of which I take no satisfaction at all), but the scorplings can't get enough. They eat the lot... legs, head... one minute the food is there on the substrate, the next it is gone... dragged into the burrow!

So far so good. Here are a couple of pics of the scorplings themselves, the first I've taken... as you can see, in the firs pic one of the scorplings is pulling back it's pincers fromthe substrate to use it's chelicerae for water, as I mentioned above. The second pic has one of the other scorplings in the mouth of the main burrow entrance, consuming a chunk of hopper abdomen.


----------



## GQ. (Sep 26, 2005)

Thanks for posting the updates.  I'm hoping to try my hand with them in the near future.  Good luck with all of them.  I'm rootin' for you.


----------



## TheNothing (Sep 26, 2005)

awesome pictures 
can definately see they're H.a.'s at 2nd instar


----------



## parabuthus (Sep 26, 2005)

A few more pictures of the scorplings... 



















Plus a failed predation by the mother on the hopper. She grabbed it successfully, but it jumped away with such force that it's leg was ripped off. My scorp still had a hold of the leg and proceeded to try and grab the hopper for several minutes, even though it was on the other side of the tank. Pretty funny... she made a great lunge though; very accurate.

www.pitofhorror.com/Scorpions/Video/HAvideo2.avi

She got it second time, and I missed it  .

Again I apologise for the poor quality of the video footage, but it was taken quickly with next to no lighting. I'll work on something special over the coming months...


----------



## parabuthus (Sep 26, 2005)

I also really like this picture, even though the glare from the flash is obvious...


----------



## parabuthus (Sep 28, 2005)

I counted 7 scorplings today, possibly 8. So I am happy with that, since I don't think there were much more than 12 originally. I want to try and get them through the next molt or two and then think about splitting them into two groups (of atleast four hopefully!). I'll have a tank ready -of the same size- with exactly the same substrate. I don't want to put them into little tubs (like I had planned originally, I've got a feeling they will just die if I do that).

In the meantime, here are some more pictures of the scorplings   ...







This was a nice suprise, approx. 6 or 7 scorplings around the back of the tank in the burrow! Note: you can only see five here, but there were more deeper into the burrow.






The smallest scorpling... I tossed it a hopper leg and gave it some water, which it drank up!






The same scorpling, very beautiful.






This scorpling -in the above three pics- was out and about while I took the photo of the others in the burrow. It seems to be the same one that comes out each time to the most moist part of the tank, it also appears to be much smaller than the others.

I'll keep everybody posted. I hope they all get through a third molt easily when the time comes...  :?


----------



## DHunter (Sep 28, 2005)

That first picture of the scorpion drinking is just too cool! :clap:


----------



## final-sting (Sep 29, 2005)

parabuthus said:
			
		

> As far as the mycosis goes, I never noticed the marks on the scorp when I first got it, but they were there...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



hmm  i think its mycosis,  mine have the same black spot on exactly the same leg.
i hope this will not grow more.  
what say the experts?  when a scorp have littel mycosis it grow more and more or its possible the mycosis stop?


----------



## Nazgul (Sep 29, 2005)

Hi,

small spots sometimes occur in wc specimens and don´t necessarily mean the scorpion is going to die. Only if it spreads rapidly the infected specimen will die sooner or later.

Regards
Alex


----------



## parabuthus (Sep 29, 2005)

It's been the same since I got her, not spreading. I am not too worried about it at this point. The scorp came with it.


----------



## fusion121 (Sep 29, 2005)

parabuthus said:
			
		

> I counted 7 scorplings today, possibly 8. So I am happy with that, since I don't think there were much more than 12 originally. I want to try and get them through the next molt or two and then think about splitting them into two groups (of atleast four hopefully!). I'll have a tank ready -of the same size- with exactly the same substrate. I don't want to put them into little tubs (like I had planned originally, I've got a feeling they will just die if I do that).


If you don't separate into individual containers them there’s a high chance they will eat each other, even very communal species will happily eat siblings during moults and this species is not renowned for its communality. Most people found individual tubs to work really well for scorplings as they let you easily change the conditions quickly and save allot of space. (though burrowing can be a problem)

Very nifty pictures of the scorplings by the way, beautiful species.


----------



## parabuthus (Sep 29, 2005)

Yeah I realise this. I've kept them together for as long as possible to get them successfully through the first two molts. I think it is probably time to start seperating them now. I just ordered some new gear in light of this; I don't fancy putting them in small tubs, you see.

Thanks for the advice.


----------



## parabuthus (Oct 4, 2005)

I flung in a few small hoppers today, and a feeding *frenzy* erupted. Up they came from their burrows and they are getting BIG...

Again, I counted 5 at any one time, but I tossed in alot of feeders (8 or so)  and they were all dispersed within minutes...  :?


----------



## parabuthus (Oct 4, 2005)

I just saw 7 scorplings all out at the same time, and I am sure there are MORE from observing them, and individuals appearing from different parts of the set-up. I am very happy about this. A couple look like they are going to molt again soon, and are spending alot of time in the moist corner of the tank. I will seperate them shortly.


----------



## parabuthus (Oct 14, 2005)

Well, they are all now very fat (except for one) and the fat ones are out of sight in their burrows. Some have dug their own burrows and have sealed themselves in, so I guess a molt could be on the way. I'll keep you all informed. So far, so good.

The thinner scorpling is still out and about alot, it needs to feed up alot more.

They are very bold and aggressive compared to my B. jacksoni 2nd instars. And ofcourse alot bigger too!


----------



## TheNothing (Oct 14, 2005)

thanks man
good luck
and keep up the good work
this is proving to be a great thread


----------



## ThatGuy (Oct 14, 2005)

man what great pictures of those babys ! i hope they make it that would be incredible ! good like man.


----------



## Runaway987 (Oct 17, 2005)

Congratulations, this thread was fantastic reading, please continue !!


----------



## parabuthus (Oct 17, 2005)

This is the most recent picture I've taken, of a very plump scorpling in a relatively shallow burrow. It has blocked itself in and has remained in place for three days now. I intend on blasting the enclosure again tonight with a 'monsoon' and partially covering the lid to get humidity back up. I've always left one side of the tank very wet, the middle not so and the other side bone dry and ventilated at all times to give the scorplings a choice of where they want to reside.


----------



## Runaway987 (Oct 17, 2005)

What substrate mix are you using?  Looks good!

I think the desert hairies mesomorph composition is beautiful.  With the telson and tail and pincers in a nice ratio to each other.

Stringy looking tails and tiny pincers put me off...


----------



## parabuthus (Oct 17, 2005)

Yes, they are great looking scorps! My favourite species at this point and the most entertaining too. I have to hold back from feeding my adult female, she is ravenous!

Also, as far as the substrate goes, it is a mix of two...

Red Desert Sand (Exo Terra)
Calci Sand (T Rex - Bone Aid)

The Calci sand is ofcourse much denser with larger particles. I mix both substrates, probably 3 parts desert sand to 1 or 2 parts calci sand. Wet and compact it tightly. It has lasted for months, including extensive burrowing from the mother and now by several scorplings.

I have two other set-ups ready. One has black desert sand and black calci sand. Looks real nice  . And it will be easy to see the scorps.


----------



## parabuthus (Oct 23, 2005)

As I said, all the scorplings are very fat now and approaching the second molt. Here is a recent picture of one (I took it last night):


----------



## brachy (Oct 23, 2005)

Nice and fat scorp . Congrats. What kind of material of ground use you ??


----------



## parabuthus (Oct 23, 2005)

See the post above the pic .


----------



## brachy (Oct 23, 2005)

oops 
Sory.   :8o .I m blind.


----------



## Mr.Scorpion (Oct 23, 2005)

You seem to be doing great! All the little scorplings seem to be happy. I love that picture of all the little guys under the burrow. I hope they turn out fine, great pleasure reading this thread through.


----------



## parabuthus (Oct 25, 2005)

Like I always say... ALWAYS USE A LID!   







Albeit, the walls could do with a wipe down as they are covered in substrate from all my escavating earlier in the process...


----------



## Prymal (Oct 25, 2005)

Parabuthus-

Awesome job so far and thank you for keeping all of us up-tp-date with your progress and that of the scorplings which, are looking very robust and healthy! I'm keeping notes as I hope to breed my gals in the future, especially my pallidus variants. Good luck for continued success!

Luc


----------



## asher8282 (Oct 28, 2005)

i just got my H. ariz. today, hes small, and if he is as young as i suspect, then this threads info will prove very useful...  keep it comin!


----------



## asher8282 (Oct 29, 2005)

what is the ideal night time temp??  maybe if that refigeration idea works, then we should just let the night temps drop a little lower to achieve the same effect...  any thoughts...


----------



## parabuthus (Oct 31, 2005)

I am not sure of the exact ideal night temperature, but I think that letting it drop a few degrees or more is a good idea for this particular species. The flux in temp and thus humidity could help with successful molting IMO. Ofcourse, it is not required in adult specimens. Goodluck!

* I am glad this thread has been of some use to certain people. Everything is still going well my end. At this point I have done as much as I can (and know)to try and get another successful molt. Finger's crossed.


----------



## asher8282 (Nov 4, 2005)

do they really need an actual burrow to molt properly, or will a couple of scrapes suffice?


----------



## drapion (Nov 4, 2005)

some body likes coheed and cambria ;P


----------



## TheNothing (Nov 4, 2005)

asher8282 said:
			
		

> do they really need an actual burrow to molt properly, or will a couple of scrapes suffice?



you should provide them with enough substrate to burrow.  they'll decide which is the better options...
most, though, will burrow


----------



## asher8282 (Nov 5, 2005)

yeah, he totally has enough sand to burrow in till his heart's content, i was just asking for curiousitys sake...

and yes, coheed rocks!  i went to their show the other night in nashville, with the dredged and blood brothers, they totally rocked my face clean off!


----------



## parabuthus (Dec 23, 2005)

*An update...*

Beautiful 3rd instar.
Truly like minature adults now.













Not sure how many scorplings I have left, there were three the other day, out and about. However after skimming a black light last night, I found the metasoma of one, so there has been cannibalism.

The mother, as usual, is as healthy and aggressive as ever. Below is a snap after a recent enclosure swap. Currently she has been swapped once again, after the substrate failed to bond properly for burrowing, and has dug herself a good burrow and closed herself in. Again, I have a lucky window where she has burrowed to, so I am going to keep a close eye on her. Can this species produce multiple broods? :? 

Does she look fat to you? Or perhaps gravid?


----------



## Brandelmouche (Dec 23, 2005)

Félicitation Parabuthus they look great.


----------



## ThatGuy (Dec 25, 2005)

keep up the good work ! so far so good.........


----------



## Rabid Flea (Dec 27, 2005)

I just sat here and read this whole thread, you have kept immaculate records and shared them with all of us, I honestly think this thread will help many people in their quest with this amazing scorp.  Granted I dont have H.A. but I do have a spadix and hope to breed her sometime soon and I think this thread holds very valuable information.

Thank you!


----------



## parabuthus (Jan 2, 2006)

Many thanks, I am glad this thread has been of use to several fellow keepers. Going on the thread "views" it has been a big hit, which is cool.

Last night three of the 3rd instars were out and about. They have been feeding well and now are all nice and "plump".

I'll keep you all informed as to how the next CRUCIAL molt goes... finger's crossed...


----------



## DeadIrishD (Jan 4, 2006)

This thread should be pinned


----------



## parabuthus (Jan 5, 2006)

3rd instar feeding on a hopper.







These guys are now REALLY fast.


----------



## Prymal (Jan 5, 2006)

Parabuthus,

Bro, you've done one helluva job of raising these beauties. And, thank you for keeping up the informative posts as i've now found spermats in the enclosures of 3 pairs of H. spadix (seems a very easy and straight-forward species to mate) and hopefully some of the info you've posted here will give me a jumping-off point in getting any future spadix to I3! Awesome job!!!

Luc


----------



## parabuthus (Jan 31, 2006)

3rd instar ready for next molt...


----------



## Prymal (Jan 31, 2006)

Heya Rich,

Awesome job with those "kids". Remarkable photos as well. Do keep us posted on any and all events regarding your group. 

Best wishes and good luck!
Luc


----------



## Nazgul (Feb 1, 2006)

Hi,

are you still raising them communally? Would be interesting to know how many got lost due to cannibalism yet.

Regards
Alex


----------



## Empwrangler (Feb 24, 2006)

How are those scorps doing? Any new updates?


----------



## bananaman (Mar 2, 2006)

updateeeeeeeee


----------



## ThatGuy (Apr 8, 2006)

no kidding i wanna hear an update as well. very curious and excited


----------



## parabuthus (Apr 15, 2006)

I still have atleast 3 scorplings left, possibly more. It's hard to tell since they are in a large faunarium with alot of substrate (7 or 8 inches deep). I located two last night deep in the substrate with a black light. They look very big now. I am guessing 4th instar. 

Alot have died due to cannibalism, however, this is part of the natural process in the wild, so I think it was for the best. Plus I don't have the facilities or space right now to care for them on an individual basis without sacrificing the potential moisture gradients that I have with the bigger faunarium. Which I believe was key in getting them this far already.

In other news, I just bought a H. spadix. I hope it's gravid, that'd be awesome... not sure of the sex yet though.

And the mother arizonensis is looking plump again and is still blocked in her burrow. I am curious about this, it has been several weeks that she has blocked herself in there...


----------



## Gav0r (Apr 15, 2006)

Good to see you  back m8 and glad  to hear a few survived..

I was just wondering had the scorps who were eaten just molted?

Thanks, Gavin.


----------



## parabuthus (Apr 15, 2006)

Can't be sure about that buddy, almost all the scorps, which I am ASSUMING, have been eaten were eaten below the surface. Most likely when they were molting, or had just recently molted, but I can't be 100%. 

I did find the remains of one scorpling on the surface of the substrate. From the size of the metasoma, it was the straggler in the brood and was a molt behind the rest i.e. smaller and thus an easy target.

I've been away from home alot over the past two months and have not dedicated as much time as I would have liked to my scorp collection. I'll keep a close eye on them again from now on though.


----------



## Gav0r (Apr 15, 2006)

cheers...
Gav.


----------



## Sunar (Apr 15, 2006)

Awesome post and pictures! Thanks a ton! I hope someday to own and attempt to breed some of these guys. 

~Fred


----------



## parabuthus (Sep 13, 2006)

Very pleased to see this little guy go through another molt. 4th instar. It's getting big now!

Feeding on a medium hopper in this picture...







I'll get some more shots asap. Just been swamped lately.


----------



## Thiscordia (Sep 13, 2006)

Great pics bro.
I currently have 3 little H. arizonensis 2I and i'm trying to raise m together i have m all in a 5 gal tank everything is going ok so far i try to keep food in the tank all the time just in case they get hungry . I also have a gravid H. spadix she can barely move, she looks like if she's about to pop.
Hopefuly very soon.


----------



## parabuthus (Sep 13, 2006)

Cannibalism is inevitable, however, I opted to allow this to happen so as to produce one or two strong individuals. I didn't have the space/substrate/time to seperate all the scorplings into efficient set-ups (e.g. deep substrate with a diverse moisture gradient). However, I am happy with the outcome.

I recommend a desert sand/calci sand combo, with frequent misting and constant feeding opportunity. The scorps must be able to burrow into the substrate without it collapsing. Other than that, goodluck man!


----------



## parabuthus (May 10, 2007)

I have two scorplings left, which I have since seperated. One of them is huge, the other is a molt behind, but ready to pop. I need to get new pics, but my new dog chewed my camera (lol) and damaged the lense. I'll post an update soon (with pics)...


----------



## Mark Newton (May 10, 2007)

Good job with the Hadrurus. I'm interested in this thread because I have spent quite a bit of time investigating _Urodacus yaschenkoi_, a similar desert obligate burrower and a hell difficult species to keep. 

I notice you have mentioned quite a bit about spraying water onto the sand surface etc, but you have not mentioned I dont think..apologies if wrong...you havent mentioned how much water was in the soil. If possible go to where these scorpions live and dig down to the depth of soil where they terminate the burrow. Take a soil sample and take it back home....weigh it and then heat it to remove water. Weigh again to discover the water content. It will be somewhere around 1-1.5% by mass, most likely. Bury a hygrometer at burrow base depth in a container in which air can pass and leave it over night in this soil. Dig it up the next day and you will see it reading 99%..most likely. What this means is that this scorpion lives in a subterranean environment where the soil is all but dry, but the atmosphere is nearly saturated. As the scorpion comes up the burrow, the temperature will increase (during the day) and humidity will change. Scorpions adopt different positions within the burrow to regulate water loss via dehydration and control metabolism. So, in your tank, if the soil is very dry underground the scorpions will be losing water via evaporative water loss and this needs to be replenished. Blocking the burrow serves to trap water.

The problem is maintaining the correct water levels in the soil and as sand loses water easily this is not an easy thing to acheve. One possible way I have thought of, but not used as yet is to create a false top rather than a false bottom. Fill the tank with sand to the depth required and mix in 1.5% water by mass, then cover the sand with glass or wood so it fits tightly in the tank. The wood should have a hole or two for a burrow entrance. Cover the wood with sand for looks etc and allow to dry to make it hard/stable. Have something poked into the soil through the hole so it can be located easily. Once dry, dig it out a little to allow the scorpion to find the right place to dig, clearly it wont be able to construct a burrow elsewhere. This method should trap water in the soil at the right levels and disallow water loss via evaporation. Meaning your Hadrurus will burrow into an environment similar to its natural environment. Your next concern will be temp to control metabolism. Underground at their depth probably 20-25C. I havent tried the above method yet, but I feel it will work. You could also include a false base to add water, but probably wont be needed as the rate of water loss via the one burrow hole should be minimal. Keep the tank as an open system so a humidity gradient can be created inside the burrow.  

Any thoughts on that?


----------



## Rigelus (May 12, 2007)

> One possible way I have thought of, but not used as yet is to create a false top rather than a false bottom. Fill the tank with sand to the depth required and mix in 1.5% water by mass, then cover the sand with glass or wood so it fits tightly in the tank. The wood should have a hole or two for a burrow entrance. Cover the wood with sand for looks etc and allow to dry to make it hard/stable. Have something poked into the soil through the hole so it can be located easily. Once dry, dig it out a little to allow the scorpion to find the right place to dig, clearly it wont be able to construct a burrow elsewhere. This method should trap water in the soil at the right levels and disallow water loss via evaporation.


That sounds like quite a good idea Mark...definetly worth an investigation.

A couple of questions.
You mention a water content of 1.5% which i'm assuming is the mean average water content from your own area, or is this a general desert average?

Would you not have to add more than 1.5% water if you wanted a water content of 1.5% when the soil was dry.?

Many of your previous pictures show a heavily oxidated soil/sand. Heavily oxidated soil is warmer at depth (slightly) than other soil types because of the moisture reacting with the oxide (rusting). Maybe australian scorpions dont' experience such a large temperature gradient when moving up their burows towards the opening. 
Have you ever researched anything along those lines.?

I think your false top system might be worth setting up for my O.wahlbergii. Although i imagine it'll take quite a while to dry out before the scorpion can be introduced.............................

Good idea though :clap: 

/Bryan.


----------



## Mark Newton (May 12, 2007)

Rigelus said:


> You mention a water content of 1.5% which i'm assuming is the mean average water content from your own area, or is this a general desert average?


This is from my own area, you would need to establish some idea for each species, although with sand in general this figure should easily give rise to a good humidity gradient and have it feel nearly dry. It doesnt take much water to create humidity. 



> Would you not have to add more than 1.5% water if you wanted a water content of 1.5% when the soil was dry.?


The idea is not to dry the soil out, you want the soil to have around 1.5% finished. If you pack the soil down hard and use a false top it will hold a burrow easily...at least the desert sands I use do. 




> I think your false top system might be worth setting up for my O.wahlbergii. Although i imagine it'll take quite a while to dry out before the scorpion can be introduced.............................


I'm not sure why you would want to dry the soil out. 1.5% is virtually dry as it is. How are you going to generate humidity if the soil is dry? I use 1.5% because that is the water content of the soil at the maximum burrow depth, above this it is drier in summer and wetter in winter. After rain it reaches about 4% at the surface. I would say I could easily get away with 1% to generate the humidity. 

I'm thinking even using cling wrap plastic across the soil might do the trick, at least as a preliminary experiment. 


Here is a graph of temp readings from _U yaschenkoi _habitat.  
The soil becomes cooler the farther down you go, at least in summer, in winter this may be reversed to some degree.


----------



## Rigelus (May 13, 2007)

> I'm not sure why you would want to dry the soil out. 1.5% is virtually dry as it is. How are you going to generate humidity if the soil is dry? I use 1.5% because that is the water content of the soil at the maximum burrow depth, above this it is drier in summer and wetter in winter. After rain it reaches about 4% at the surface. I would say I could easily get away with 1% to generate the humidity.


Alright, i'm with you. 
It hadn't actually sunk in how little 1.5% water content was...but of course 15 ml of water in 1 kilo of sand isn't going to turn it into a slush den.

It would be interesting to get hold of other temperature graphs like yours for comparison.
It's interesting to note that there's a 50 degree flucuation in surface temperature but that from 20cm's down to 50cm's the fluctuation isn't more than a few degrees.
Have you a similar graph for the colder months?


----------



## parabuthus (Jun 17, 2008)

I have one of the offspring at subadult I believe. The other is a molt behind.
I lost the mother  :wall:, who was gravid with a second clutch. I am absolutely gutted. Easily my favourite scorp. I'll try to raise the offspring to adulthood. 

My H. Spadix is still doing great. As is my Imperator. My S. maurus also died last month. He ceased to feed. But that was around 2.5 years in captivity, which is not bad for that species.

I'll post some more pics of all the Hadrurus asap.


----------



## parabuthus (Jun 17, 2008)

I'll try and get my site back online asap, which has all the pics on it. Life has got in the way of my scorp hobby the past year. Getting married, getting a house and car and working all the damn time takes it's toll! But I'll get it all back online...


----------

