# Scorpio maurus?



## phoenixxavierre (Apr 19, 2003)

Is this a color morph of Scorpio maurus?


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## XOskeletonRED (Apr 19, 2003)

If it is, it would be Scorpio maurus palmatus. The photo I have is nearly exact to the one you posted. The prosoma appears to be slightly more granulated in your specimen, but it could be just the depth perception I have of it because the distance the pic was taken, being slightly farther away on the pic I have on the comp. If it's not, it could be an Opisto, but it is most likely a Scorpio, indeed. That's probably where they got the idea that it was. Someone actually knew where it was collected. Oddly. heheh... Great looking scorp, Paul!


adios,
edw.


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## phoenixxavierre (Apr 19, 2003)

I'll try to get some better pics posted. That one has a lot of sheen on it. 

Thanks, Ed!

Take care,

Paul


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## XOskeletonRED (Apr 19, 2003)

Paul, 

 Though it does have some glare on the scorp, the pic is still quite distinguishable as to having the exact coloration of the pics I have of S. maurus. The pics I have aren't as good as yours because they were taken from a little farther away than I prefer them to be from. Annoyingly. Other than the slight granulation differences I believe I see in the prosomas, they are identical.



adios,
edw.   

y/w 
Edit: will attempt to cross-reference it with some of the other pics I have of S. maurus and see what I can come up with.


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## Baphomet (Apr 21, 2003)

Paul,

I would have to concur with XO that what you have is more than likely a _Scorpio maurus fuscus_. I have a photo almost identical to the one you posted, showing the same granulation of the prosomas.

Nice specimen!


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## XOskeletonRED (Apr 21, 2003)

Baphomet,

 You have a pic of the fuscus ssp? Did they ever post one to the Scorpion Files? I've been attempting to obtain one, but with little success.


adios,
edw.   =D


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## phoenixxavierre (Apr 21, 2003)

Baphomet,

Thanks!

Edw.,

Thankyou as well!

All,

This pic was taken through glass. Not very good but best I can do at the moment. I'll post a better one soon if I can.

Take care,

Paul


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## skinheaddave (Apr 21, 2003)

> _Originally posted by XOskeletonRED _
> *You have a pic of the fuscus ssp? Did they ever post one to the Scorpion Files? I've been attempting to obtain one, but with little success.*


http://www.ub.ntnu.no/scorpion-files/s_maurus_fuscus4.jpg 
http://www.ub.ntnu.no/scorpion-files/s_maurus_fuscus5.jpg 
http://www.ub.ntnu.no/scorpion-files/s_maurus_fuscus6.jpg 

Paul's does not look like this ssp.

Cheers,
Dave


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## phoenixxavierre (Apr 21, 2003)

so does that make it a color morph of S. maurus? or Opistophthalmus?

Paul


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## Baphomet (Apr 21, 2003)

> _Originally posted by XOskeletonRED _
> *Baphomet,
> 
> You have a pic of the fuscus ssp? Did they ever post one to the Scorpion Files? I've been attempting to obtain one, but with little success.
> ...


Yes, I have several photos of _fuscus_...I got them from an aquaintance of mine (Kari J. McWest). Kari has been kind enough to send me many high-quality photos of scorps.

I have known Kari for quite some time, and I am currently assisting him in collecting and cataloging local scorps from California. Actually, I collect them, and make notes of where they were captured with the help of a GPS. I then ship the scorp and the info to Kari.

Kari is kind enough to share his results with me in return.

Anyway, I'm not sure about Scorpion Files' photo library regarding _ fuscus_, but by the looks of Dave's reply, they do indeed have some posted now.


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## XOskeletonRED (Apr 21, 2003)

Most excellent, guys. Thank you both. Been a little while since I got to visit the Scorpion Files.
 Paul, I'd have to again concur on my original reply as the fuscus doesn't match up in these pics, as Dave has kindly stated.

EDIT: After further inspection of my own O. ecristatus female specimen, I'm head strong that it's not an Opistiophthalmus genus scorpion, though the coloration and appearance is very close to that of my Opistos. The Opistos have extremely lighter coloration on the frontal section of the prosoma, whereas the Scorpio maurus I had mentioned earlier, does not have such the extremity, and rather, comes close to staying the same color throughout. Also, the pedipalps shaping isn't all in the exact same angles, femurs being of different lengths in retrospect to tergite size, so it's not ecristatus (that being the only Opisto. at all, that I could find with such extreme similarities). All others have definite "givens" on coloration (also keeping note of color morphs, it's too far off in variation) . I'll also bet you have males and females and the pedipalp size wont differentiate as much as Opistos will. 

adios,
edw.


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## phoenixxavierre (Apr 21, 2003)

> _Originally posted by XOskeletonRED _
> * Paul, I'd have to again concur on my original reply as the fuscus doesn't match up in these pics, as Dave has kindly stated.
> 
> EDIT: After further inspection of my own O. ecristatus female specimen, I'm head strong that it's not an Opistiophthalmus genus scorpion, though the coloration and appearance is very close to that of my Opistos. The Opistos have extremely lighter coloration on the frontal section of the prosoma, whereas the Scorpio maurus I had mentioned earlier, does not have such the extremity, and rather, comes close to staying the same color throughout. Also, the pedipalps shaping isn't all in the exact same angles, femurs being of different lengths in retrospect to tergite size, so it's not ecristatus (that being the only Opisto. at all, that I could find with such extreme similarities). All others have definite "givens" on coloration (also keeping note of color morphs, it's too far off in variation) . I'll also bet you have males and females and the pedipalp size wont differentiate as much as Opistos will.
> ...



Here's a few more pics for ya. 

Paul


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## phoenixxavierre (Apr 21, 2003)

Here's a smaller specimen that came in a different shipment.


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## phoenixxavierre (Apr 21, 2003)

female claw


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## phoenixxavierre (Apr 21, 2003)

male claw


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## phoenixxavierre (Apr 21, 2003)

I had a shipment of these come in and nearly all of them died within the first few days of receipt. 

Here is what the male I had looked like with a female beside him for comparison. 

Take care,

Paul


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## phoenixxavierre (Apr 23, 2003)

Hi all, 

Todd Gearheart has these listed as Scorpio maurus dark form, and states they're from Northern Africa.  

Has this color morph been studied at all? Anyone know if they're structurally identical? Or are these a first time show in the US? 

I was comparing the O. wahlbergi/boemi I have with the S. maurus dark form, and noticed the eye placement in the S. maurus is more toward the center of the (what is that area between the chelicerae and the abdomen area called? lol!) head area, whereas the Opistos had eyes set farther away from the chelicerae. However, I noticed on one or two Opistos where the eye placement is not the same, being more toward the middle of the head. Make sense? 

 

I'll take and post pics of what I'm talking about when I get time. 


Best wishes,

Paul


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## XOskeletonRED (Apr 23, 2003)

Well, Paul,

 Age differentiation could easily change the aspect of things on the overall size of the peds, because in many Ts, the females live considerably longer than males, as the same goes with most scorpions (probably all). It actually goes with people as well, if you think about it (makes me kinda wonder if it does on all living creatures).  As far as the appearance of the two go, the female's peds are not as overly bulky, or as granulated as the male's in comparison to their own bodies, unlike Opisto, females having the bulkier peds and being more granulated. I'll have to say, I'm 100% positive it's not Opisto genus after looking closer as the two together. I know Scorpio males have the slightly bulkier peds, so indeed, the male, in the instance of your pic with them together, is the one of the left and female is the one on the right. The female only appears to have larger peds because she is obviously much older. My overall judgement: They are Scorpio maurus.

 Great pics, Paul! 


adios,
edw.  =D 

PS: hey, hook me up with an E-mail on those scorps, Paul.


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## Kugellager (Apr 23, 2003)

Females living longer than males?...now that is a new to me.  I believe that to be incorrect.

In my experience I have had more female scorps die before my male scorps ...particularly after they give birth.  The males just kept right on living and even mated again after more than a year. 

I have also never seen this stated in any text that I have read on the subject of sexual dimorphism or scorpion life-spans.  In fact from what I have read is that both sexes in scorpions live about the same amount of time.

Tarantulas they are not.

John
];')


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## skinheaddave (Apr 23, 2003)

XO,

To compare the difference in longevity between the sexes in Ts and in scorpions (and humans, for that matter) is rediculous.  The vastly different lifespans of male and female Ts is a direct result of their developmental processes.  Furthermore, the gap is huge, with females lasting many times longer, sometimes as much as 10x as long.  

On the other hand, both sexes of scorpions have similar longevities.  Biologically, they both develop at similar rates, reach sexual maturity at similar times and cash in at similar times.  Granted, the tendancy of males to give up their surface-minimalist lifestyle to find a mate does somewhat reduce their chances of reaching old age, but these effects, while significant, are small.    

What we are talking about is two vastly different evolutionary pathways taken to sustain two vastly different population dynamics.  That is why you don't see the same rate of sexual canabalism in scorpions (in fact, true sexual canabalism is considered rare to non-existant) as in Ts.  That is even one of the reasons why scorpions can maintain K-selected populations without highly skewed sex ratios.  We are talking about one of the primary factors in allowing scorpions to be succesful as they are.  You ought to read "Scorpion Biology" by G.A. Polis.  It discusses some of the significance of this life strategy.

Cheers,
Dave


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## skinheaddave (Apr 23, 2003)

Get out of my head, John .... well said. 

Cheers,
Dave


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## XOskeletonRED (Apr 23, 2003)

I was merely stating from my experience. Every species of scorpion I have kept, the females have lived longer, from birth to death. P. imperator males I have had live no longer than 5.5 years, while most females, reached closer to seven. Heterometrus, I have seen females reach 7.5 and males to only 5+. Centruroides, I have seen females reach four years and males, I have never seen reach more than 3. Respectively. I could continue, but I'm sure you get my point. Oddly enough, but what, other than lifespan differences could account for my rates being so firm with never having had a male survive longer than a male of the same species and birthing? I have been keeping them since I was 6. I am now 23. Common sense tells me that if the females didn't die, it was not caused by improper keeping, as the fact is, most were kept together, but with dividers in the enclosures.


adios,
edw.   :?


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## skinheaddave (Apr 23, 2003)

XO,

I find your data dubious.  Especialy in light of:



> *PetHobbyist profile says:
> Not much to say. Been dealing with and studying scorpions for about eight years but have been collecting them, tarantulas, lizards, snakes and pedes for about five years now
> *


And you are going to suggest that in that time you have had such an incredible number of specimens for which you knew the exact birth and death date that you can make this comparison for a wide range of species?  And all of these died of natural causes and lived in conditions identical to the females?  I'm not saying you're a liar, just that you need to back yourself a bit more credibly.

Cheers,
Dave


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## XOskeletonRED (Apr 23, 2003)

My definition of dealing with and breeding with scorpions only goes to light of more knowleged based assessments upon reaching maturity. Collecting would be defined by myself as in high numbers. Maturity also has it's own definition of mine in this situation.


adios,
edw. =D


Edit: I also do not mention, in most cases, that I was catching arachnids and everything else everywhere I've ever lived since I can possibly remember. To me, it's substancial information as with the exact date of birth and death for an arachnid (at least those were substancial info). Six months is a noticeable mark, even when not paying that close of attention (emphasis on that). Oh yeah, and I do keep track of all the dates nowadays... I pay a lot more attention to all aspects of their lives than I first did.

Forgot to mention, I also kept the dividers with holes in them, in the aquarium and the heat pads, to save money, were always in the center on the tank sides, until recently, when I had the heat pad overheat, melt down and melt the divider and crack the glass on a 10 gal. So, giving that fact, the environments were the same, or as close to it as physically possible.


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## RegalReptiles (Apr 27, 2003)

*Hey Paul*

Hey Paul,

Here is a good link to a picture of the Scorpio maurus I believe you got from me:

http://wrbu.si.edu/www/stockwell/du_jour/s_maurus.html
http://wrbu.si.edu/www/stockwell/photos/s_maurus(v).jpg

The coloration is extremly similar to the one's you recieved.

If you get a chance Paul give me a call at 508.336.0667.

Thanks,

Pat Kane


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## phoenixxavierre (Apr 28, 2003)

Thankyou, Pat!  

Best wishes,

Paul


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