# Scolopendra aztecorum?



## cantthinkofone (Aug 17, 2013)

Hello! For those of you that have been in the hobby for awhile, do you remember seeing Scolopendra aztecorum? I remember someone selling them for 50$ or so. The only one I can find now is 225. I believe it's pricey how about you guys?


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## zonbonzovi (Aug 17, 2013)

Anyone willing to pay that should take a look at my collection of celebrity pocket lint(w/verification papers!)

Reactions: Like 5


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## freedumbdclxvi (Aug 17, 2013)

Do you have Bruce Campbell lint?!??!?!?!?


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## cantthinkofone (Aug 17, 2013)

Lol. I found it pricey too. But if they are the only place selling I guess it's fair enterprise.


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## zonbonzovi (Aug 17, 2013)

cantthinkofone said:


> Lol. I found it pricey too. But if they are the only place selling I guess it's fair enterprise.


That's Comcast's business model   Honestly, if I wanted aztecorum/polymorpha variant/mystery 'pede...I'd take my $225 and fly down to look for it, but that's just me.

I'll have to look around to see if I have any Campbell material...I may have a spit cup from when he was on the tobacky

Reactions: Like 2


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## cantthinkofone (Aug 17, 2013)

Well put, but I'm sure agriculture an wildlife wouldn't be happy with you smuggling centipedes over the border, that is, if they catch you.


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## Nanotrev (Aug 18, 2013)

cantthinkofone said:


> Well put, but I'm sure agriculture an wildlife wouldn't be happy with you smuggling centipedes over the border, that is, if they catch you.


The pede in question may just be polymorpha, and it is also found in locations within the US.


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## cantthinkofone (Aug 19, 2013)

well it may be polymorpha but ive never seen one like this:http://www.flickr.com/photos/toddgearheart/9153352725/ and thats the pic used for sale.


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## Greenjewls (Aug 19, 2013)

Seems like these are popping up in southern California... seen a couple "please ID this 'pede!" threads posted by Californians that find these in the house or in the yard. I'm sure Todd G will find himself a sucker dumb enough to drop $250 on it (cuz I bet the shipping ain't free neither)   :O


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## cantthinkofone (Aug 19, 2013)

Is he good? I am thinking of ordering some pedes off him and can't seem to find reviews.


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## Inverts4life (Aug 19, 2013)

I was one of the first ones to bring this up back in 2010. Everyone shot me down when I said it was different and I have only found them in a couple places. I am 100% positive this is not polymorpha. The terminal legs of the young are way too long. I have also caught adults that I measured to be 7 inches. If you want S. aztecorum Ill sell them cheaper than that. lol way cheaper. I dont understand how he can sell them that high... they are a native pede. Its funny because I was just taking a pic of my sub adult when i jumped on. Ill posts some more pics of the babies and adults Ive caught over the last couple years. Then I can let you guys decide, my mind is made up already.


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## Galapoheros (Aug 19, 2013)

Hey Inverts4life, I remember the scenario and even remember an out of country source that came to the "polymorpha" conclusion based on a specimen sent to them.  I still have much doubt that this is polymorpha.  The man-made keys may not be enough.  To me the physical characteristics don't match up; long antennae, legs and long terminal legs, it just doesn't fit polys imo.  Maybe only DNA analysis could clear it up.


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## josh_r (Aug 20, 2013)

Bruce Campbell lint??? $1,000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can see there are differences in this pede, but there are too many similarities as well.... Could just be a morphological variant of polymorpha. Or it could indeed be a different species.. DNA results would be interesting. How goes it Todd?

Reactions: Like 1


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## cantthinkofone (Aug 20, 2013)

Inverts4life I would be interested in one. Sent a pm.


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## Greenjewls (Aug 20, 2013)

I've seen a lot of polymorphas... but never one with a black head. just sayin.


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## Galapoheros (Aug 20, 2013)

josh_r said:


> Bruce Campbell lint??? $1,000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> I can see there are differences in this pede, but there are too many similarities as well.... Could just be a morphological variant of polymorpha. Or it could indeed be a different species.. DNA results would be interesting. How goes it Todd?


Word!

On the polys I've seen the antennae and terminals seem to be at least 2/3s the length compared to these.  But whatever, they are cool looking pedes.


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## zonbonzovi (Aug 21, 2013)

cantthinkofone said:


> well it may be polymorpha but ive never seen one like this:http://www.flickr.com/photos/toddgearheart/9153352725/ and thats the pic used for sale.


(Smirk). Yeah...I was the one to suggest that as a potential ID...good to see it's being used as a sales gimmick:sarcasm:

No one with a juvy/adult and a camera has bothered to confirm the one characteristic that would make this obviously different from polymorpha(see past threads for that one characteristic).  Why, I don't know?  Take that potential ID with a grain of salt.  As far as colors, consider polymorpha and heros and subspinipes and morsitans and, and, etc.  DNA would tell the tale.  The only person that has given a specimen the thorough treatment is krabbelspine, who suggested it had shown no appreciable difference from polymorpha.  He's also the person that authored the paper on the changes to subspinipes(in other words, he's done his math)...but even he would happily consider rock solid, morphological evidence, I think.  The thing about the antennae is the overlap in antennomere counts between the species.  As far as the long terminals I've seen the same in heros and polymorpha at different life stages.  

Yes, I'm still bothered by this.  Can you tell? :laugh:

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## cantthinkofone (Aug 21, 2013)

I'm not looking for the colors and I already have a blue polymorpha. I'm just looking for one of the ones inverts4life (sorry if I messed up your username) has. I sent a pm to no avail. I find them nice looking.


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## Inverts4life (Aug 21, 2013)

So who should I send a specimen to? Cause I really want to know for sure and nobody has really confirmed it. I always have one or two in captivity at a time. I am more than willing to send one off. Here is some macro photos I found. 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/768457...photolist-dJgGEH-dJn8rL-dJgFMP-dJn9Hj-dJotRA/


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## cantthinkofone (Aug 21, 2013)

nanotrev, Kyuzo, galapoheros. sorry if i got those names wrong. any of those could probably tell you aztecorum or no. i just want one to keep not to id.


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## zonbonzovi (Aug 23, 2013)

Inverts4life said:


> So who should I send a specimen to? Cause I really want to know for sure and nobody has really confirmed it. I always have one or two in captivity at a time. I am more than willing to send one off. Here is some macro photos I found.
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/768457...photolist-dJgGEH-dJn8rL-dJgFMP-dJn9Hj-dJotRA/


Dr. Rowland Shelley.  I hope this contact info is still good.  He'll probably want it dead and in preservative:

http://naturalsciences.org/research-collections/research-specialties/invertebrates/rowland-shelley


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## Galapoheros (Aug 23, 2013)

lol yeah, that's how he likes pedes, dead.  Yip, Shelley is the one to send it to.  I'm kind of like cantthinkofone, I'm not big on IDing, keeping them and watching the behavior is more my thing.  I really like the breeding end of it, I try to be a productive person:sarcasm:


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## zhangjunduo (Aug 24, 2013)

zonbonzovi said:


> (Smirk). Yeah...I was the one to suggest that as a potential ID...good to see it's being used as a sales gimmick:sarcasm:
> 
> No one with a juvy/adult and a camera has bothered to confirm the one characteristic that would make this obviously different from polymorpha(see past threads for that one characteristic).  Why, I don't know?  Take that potential ID with a grain of salt.  As far as colors, consider polymorpha and heros and subspinipes and morsitans and, and, etc.  DNA would tell the tale.  The only person that has given a specimen the thorough treatment is krabbelspine, who suggested it had shown no appreciable difference from polymorpha.  He's also the person that authored the paper on the changes to subspinipes(in other words, he's done his math)...but even he would happily consider rock solid, morphological evidence, I think.  The thing about the antennae is the overlap in antennomere counts between the species.  As far as the long terminals I've seen the same in heros and polymorpha at different life stages.
> 
> Yes, I'm still bothered by this.  Can you tell? :laugh:



is this a  Scolopendra aztecorum or Scolopendra polymorpha
http://www.flickr.com/photos/the_horned_jew_lizard/6131379473/


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## zonbonzovi (Aug 24, 2013)

zhangjunduo said:


> is this a  Scolopendra aztecorum or Scolopendra polymorpha
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/the_horned_jew_lizard/6131379473/


I don't know because the characteristics that would distinguish them can't be seen in this photo.  

'polymorpha' is an unfortunate choice as a species name considering so many individual species exhibit a plethora of colors.

Reactions: Like 1


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## josh_r (Aug 29, 2013)

Greenjewls said:


> I've seen a lot of polymorphas... but never one with a black head. just sayin.


And how many times in nature have we been shown that color really doesn't matter?

Just look at scolopendra heros for example... They have many different head configurations.... Black head, red head, orange head, black head with red or orange edges to the head, red head with black dot in the middle.... Head coloration does not determine difference in species.... Just sayin..

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## myrmecophile (May 10, 2018)

https://www.biotaxa.org/em/article/view/25397/23553

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## Galapoheros (May 10, 2018)

I'm glad somebody finally cleared this up, so far.


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## vyadha (Feb 27, 2019)

myrmecophile said:


> https://www.biotaxa.org/em/article/view/25397/23553


Have to pay for a year subscription.... Whats the conclusion??


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## Scoly (Feb 28, 2019)

vyadha said:


> Have to pay for a year subscription.... Whats the conclusion??


I'm not sure what the conclusion on this particular individual was, but:

Yes, _S.aztecorum_ exists, and is different to polymorpha. It is mentioned in "Scolopendra.pdf" file in the Google Drive Greg provided you a link with the thread "Keys to Scolopendromorpha genera".
A number of odd looking polymorpha have been branded "Aztecorum" even though they are not
Colours are no indication of species, and indeed are completely ignored by taxonomists
Terminal shape (length/width) is also pretty variable within the same species, in some, particularly so, like S.cingulata.
And I've attached  is the PDF you cannot access, not that I have access to that site, sadly.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Bill S (Feb 28, 2019)

Inverts4life said:


> I was one of the first ones to bring this up back in 2010. Everyone shot me down when I said it was different and I have only found them in a couple places. I am 100% positive this is not polymorpha. The terminal legs of the young are way too long....


Absolutely correct - the terminal legs on _polymorpha_ are definitely shorter and much heavier.  And as has been pointed out above, the black head is un-_polymorpha_.

There are some morphs of _polymorpha_ that are patternless, and it may be some of these that are being confused with the animals in the photos.  Last summer I caught a _polymorpha_ in my yard (near Tucson, Arizona) that was patternless gold color.  I'm hoping to find a couple more of these so I can breed them - but they are only like the specimens in the photos in a very superficial way.


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## Bill S (Feb 28, 2019)

zonbonzovi said:


> 'polymorpha' is an unfortunate choice as a species name considering so many individual species exhibit a plethora of colors.


Actually, that makes "polymorpha" the perfect choice as a species name, because individuals and populations do exhibit so much variation.


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## vyadha (Feb 28, 2019)

Thanks!
I wasn’t sure how current the keys are. I’m heading to Baja this summer for a spearfishing trip and I’m glad I’ll have some dry land activities.


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