# I need Help about Baby Scorpions Pandinus imperator Mother died



## spiderengineer (Jun 12, 2012)

Ok so I realize when I got her it was an impulse buy but it was an offer I couldn't refuse. About three days ago I was at my local pet land shop and they were trying to get rid of this mother Pandinus Imperator with nine babies on her back. I had done research on taking care of scorpions and figured was confident I could take care of the mother and the babies and get Ten scorpions for the price of one. she was doing fine when first got her and the tank i put her in was perfect for her needs and the babies at least what i have read about them. I offer food to her but she didn't take it and I  started to ger concerned for the mother, because she didn't eat anything and appear lethargic compare to the videos and pics of mothers and their babies. I was concerned that the birth took allot out of her, but figured she was just trying to get her strength back. Now i found her dead with the babies still on her back. they seem to be perfectly fine and are still moving, but what do I?

The pet store was not helpful with info like when she gave birth and was she eating (it was not chain store pet store so their is no communication between any of the employees so they weren't helpful.) I believe they have not molted to their first instar here is a pic when i first got them alive.



This was in here old tank that i was not satisfied with when they gave me here. I put here in a new tank that I thought was much more suited to her needs and the babies.

So can/should i leave them on the dead mother until there first molt or do I need to remove them and if so in what? Also how can I feed them and with what should I feed them? Any help will be appreciated.

P.S. If you going to be a dick and tell me I should do a through search on this site for the info then please do me a favor and not respond, because I have search allot and could not find anything and you are not helping the situation with your comments.


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## MrCrackerpants (Jun 12, 2012)

I have not dealt with this exact situation but have had the babies go through their first molt and then had their mother die. They were fine. 

This is what I would do. I am not saying it is correct and others that have dealt with this exact situation will have better advice. If she is truly dead, I would remove her body or the bacteria and fungus associated with the decomposition of the mothers body will (more than likely) infect the babies. I would smell her and when you get a HINT of her body decomposing, I would immediately transfer the babies to a very small enclosure. Provide them with the proper Emperor scorpion environment and wait for them to molt. After they molt, let their exoskeletons harden and then provide prey items of proper size. Good luck.


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## jake9134 (Jun 12, 2012)

It takes more than a few days for them to molt to 2i (up to a week or 2), by then she will be stinking and attracting mites. 

Do you know how long it has been since she gave birth?

If not you might want to move them to a deli container with very slightly damp paper towels and keep them warm. Keep them all together and be extremely careful moving them.
You might want to try putting the dead mother in the container then slowly nudge them off one by one.

But honestly, I've never had this happen with any of mine so I'm just taking a shot in the dark with what I would do.


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## spiderengineer (Jun 12, 2012)

ok I appreciate your advice i wish i knew when she gave birth. I wish i knew when she gave birth but the people that were working their at the time did not know I think they were new employees. I realize i should have waited until i found some one who knew, but it look like a good thing at the time (buyer beware i guess) I want to assume last week some time. I figured she would stink up the tank but wasn't sure how long that would take but I will try and carefully remove them. Thanks for the adivice

one quick question do you keep the babies with the mom so that she feeds them or do you removed them once they get off her back and feed them your self. If you do it how do you feed them.


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## jake9134 (Jun 12, 2012)

The mother can sometimes feed them (unless I was seeing things, and even then, they had already molted and were about come off her back) but normally they don't/won't eat until they molt and harden


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## spiderengineer (Jun 12, 2012)

ok so it sounds like i am in for the waiting game type scenario were i hope they make it to their first molt.


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## Galapoheros (Jun 12, 2012)

The situation hadn't ended well for most people in your situation but they have pulled through for some.  btw that coco fiber should be dark brown with moisture, looks way too dry, in the pic anyway.  Good luck with it.


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## spiderengineer (Jun 12, 2012)

yeah I figured my chances are slim just wanted to try, but as for the coco fiber. Like i said I didn't like the enclose she was in so I switch it out and that pic was what she was in when i bought her. I mate not have been that clear on that my bad. so use a different substrate peat moss and its much wetter not soaked but i think you get the idea, but this is a mute point anyway.


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## GS (Jun 13, 2012)

Hi spiderengineer,

Specifically for your scenario, I would suggest to rehouse the young.

Some guides below for your reference:

[HOW TO] Incubate 1.instar Scorpling

[ASA] Forest Scorpions' Caresheet

Hope that things will turn out fine for the kids.

Regards,
GS


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## spiderengineer (Jun 13, 2012)

Thank you GS, also do you think they are not emperor. I had my suspicion about that and thought they might be Asian forest scorpions, but wasn't an expert on them.


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## Roblicious (Jun 13, 2012)

They are emps just take them all off put into a deli cup with a moist paper towel keep it moist they should molt to 2i in no time

You cab separate or put all in one and keep it warm and  humid


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## spiderengineer (Jun 13, 2012)

Thanks Roblicious I thought they might be forest, because when i shown a light on the mother when i first got her when she was in her new tank in a hiding place she was extremely green and I read that was sign of a asian forest scorpion. wish me luck I hope they survive.


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## Roblicious (Jun 13, 2012)

forest scorpions have same care warm/hot and high humidity


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## GS (Jun 13, 2012)

spiderengineer said:


> Thank you GS, also do you think they are not emperor. I had my suspicion about that and thought they might be Asian forest scorpions, but wasn't an expert on them.


She's a Pandinus imperator (Emperor scorpion).

Keep us updated on the babies. Good luck!


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## spiderengineer (Jun 14, 2012)

I will thanks


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## spiderengineer (Jun 14, 2012)

ok so I have an update I think they will all pull through or over half of them will. I have notice five of the nine seem to be moving around like walking like miniature scorpions if that makes sense and that was from one last night acting like that to about five of them. The best way to explain this is that they pedipalp are extended outwards instead close to there body. The tail is curved over their bodies instead of to the side or in various direction. they are walking with there body lifted off the ground instead of laying on the ground and just moving occasional. In short they are much more active these last few hours then when i first had them and their mother wasn't dead. If my interpretation of what I read is right i think some are getting ready to molt soon. Can any body confirm that for me?


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## iaminside (Jun 14, 2012)

got any update pics?


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## spiderengineer (Jun 14, 2012)

I will get some later tonight


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## bigo (Jun 14, 2012)

Hey good luck with the babies i had three female of my own give birth about 3 months ago and the only problem i see for you is getting them to eat.  some of my babies did not eat on their own they were to scared of the crix but had no problem eating from the mother food which was a large crix that she killed but some of the babies did eat on their own but is was pin head crix


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## spiderengineer (Jun 15, 2012)

I count about six that look like those two compared to the other pictured I posted. they seem more develop than when i first got them. I kept the mother with them because i was afraid to damage them trying to get them off her. That doesn't seem to be an issue so far :biggrin:


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## spiderengineer (Jun 15, 2012)

if I pre-kill the prey when they are ready to eat though they should eat it right? they way I wont run the risk of crickets damage the young


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## Roblicious (Jun 15, 2012)

they wont eat til 2i


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## spiderengineer (Jun 15, 2012)

yeah I know I was just wondering when they do reach 2i wont they eat pre-killed food?


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## spiderengineer (Jun 15, 2012)

so here is another update they all seem more active now and more develop I think here is a recent pic


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## Galapoheros (Jun 15, 2012)

I think those pictured did make it to 2i but they still won't eat until they harden up a bit, you might give it a week or so before offering pre-kill.  Or you could try it sooner, if they don't eat it simply take it out.


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## spiderengineer (Jun 15, 2012)

cool i thought i saw some shedded exoskeleton but was not sure because it might be some decomp from mom to


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## Galapoheros (Jun 15, 2012)

The exo left behind from molting to 2i is very thin and wispy, white, shrivels up a little to something that would be easy to miss.  It's not like the exos left behind with all the other molts.


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## spiderengineer (Jun 15, 2012)

I see then i think they have majority have molted except for one or two, which is awesome news. also how exactly do you guys pre-kill the food? do you just cut them up with a knife or scissors or stabbed them with a needle or some sharp object, or is the skin to hard to break through so crushing is the best to get in the inside or do you do something else entirely?


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## spiderengineer (Jun 16, 2012)

so another Update they all went off the mom and look like they are hardening nicely except for it seem he lost its tail, so will that grow back not an expert on that.


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## Roblicious (Jun 19, 2012)

You left the dead mom in there? If so once they molt to 2i toss the dead mother out it should smell pretty bad :-/

If you have dubai roaches just feed them baby nymphs

Or pop the head of a cricket or feed them cricket drum stick legs

Only does this after they harden up though so another week after they molted



Edit
The one on the bottom looks like it has a messed up tail as in it broke.off
Could be the angle though


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## spiderengineer (Jun 19, 2012)

yeah when they went off the mom i took her out I chop up some crickets and they seem to eat them ok and yeah I did notice the tail on one it seems messed up but he is still doing fine. one died a about a days ago but the other eight seem to be fine.


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## EbonyKatana1664 (Jun 19, 2012)

Then bam, win. success, just minor damage.


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## spiderengineer (Jun 19, 2012)

:biggrin: yep exactly, however I still feel like a nervous mother but i guess I will be like that until they grow big and strong. :biggrin:


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## EbonyKatana1664 (Jun 19, 2012)

spiderengineer said:


> :biggrin: yep exactly, however I still feel like a nervous mother but i guess I will be like that until they grow big and strong. :biggrin:


Normal, keep us updated.


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## spiderengineer (Jun 19, 2012)

I will keep everyone posted


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## Roblicious (Jun 20, 2012)

they should be fine now, all they have to do is harden up i wouldnt even feed them til they darken they typically dont even eat til they come off the back naturally (living mom) and that takes a week


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## spiderengineer (Jun 20, 2012)

ok so I transferred them to a Tupperware container, because they were getting hard to keep track of them all. How much darker are we talking about. will they go all black before their next molt or two or just a tan coloration like their are now in this picture.


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## spiderengineer (Jun 23, 2012)

so another update for anybody interested. sadly the one with the messed up tail passed yesterday so now I am down to seven, but as you can see from the pic they are all getting darker. I have been throwing in small crickets not sure if they are pinheads they are called extra small where I buy them. I have seen a couple of the scorpions eating them and hunting them down so that is good. The one with the messed up tail never became dark like the other did so I had not plan on him or her making it. So Hopefully that is the last fatality and the other seven live.


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## AzJohn (Jun 24, 2012)

At that size you should be looking for a more permanent home with some substrate. Paper towels are good for younger ones. Good job getting them to 2i.


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## spiderengineer (Jun 24, 2012)

Thank you. I had them in a ten gallon when i had them with the mom I know that probably huge for them know but could I put them back in that tank or should i put them in a smaller tank and wait till they get bigger. I realize they will need to be in an even bigger tank for communal setup, but i figure i have time before i need to worry about that.


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## 2nscorpx (Jun 24, 2012)

You should keep them in a smaller terrarium...nice job with this species and, definitely, good luck...


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## spiderengineer (Jun 24, 2012)

Ok so here they are in their new home. I figures a 5.5 gallon tank was the right size for them to be in. They get darker everyday.


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## EbonyKatana1664 (Jun 24, 2012)

Very cool.


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## spiderengineer (Jun 25, 2012)

EbonyKatana1664 said:


> Very cool.


Yes I agree I find it incredible to transformation from white blobs to micro EMPS in such a short time. I keep looking over the pictures from when I first got them to now its crazy. I do have a question i know that young scorpions need high temps and humidity. should I keep that regiment up or will normal conditions for them be necessary now.


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## 2nscorpx (Jun 25, 2012)

They will still need rather high temperatures and humidity, it is probably more important for juveniles to have these things...


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## spiderengineer (Jun 25, 2012)

Sweet thanks


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## Roblicious (Jun 25, 2012)

If you can get Dubai roaches its.much better cause they won't attack molting scorpions.and they burrow just like they do


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## spiderengineer (Jun 25, 2012)

Crickets just are more convenient for me at the moment. I have thought about starting a small colony, but it seem unnecessary for mean to have a colony since i don't have that many T's and scorpions. otherwise I would have to keep ordering them online since no pet store has them, well at least none around here.


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## spiderengineer (Jun 29, 2012)

so an update I still have Seven and they seem to be eating fine I occasionally see one of two with a cricket it their claw so that's good and eating them. I do have a quick question I know that Molting is not an exact science in regards when they molt there is no predictably pattern except certain sign to look for not to mention the age of the scorpion. I was wonder though is their a usually time frame when 2i go to 3i, like is it a few months or up to a year.


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## Roblicious (Jun 30, 2012)

depends on how often you feed and how hot you keep them

I have a 6i that is about 6 months overdue on his final molt (premolt for that long) so yeah they can take forever lol

typically every other to every other other month


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## spiderengineer (Jul 3, 2012)

I want to thank all of you for helping me with this I feel that I would not be so calm headed had you guys not help or that the baby scorps would have made it this far. I Think they will have long and happy lives as long as any unforeseen problems come along (knock on wood). So thanks to all for your help.

Having said that I have i believe one more question and I think I will be set. So I have been feeding them extra small crickets (thats how they are advertise, but they are more likely pinheads) They are eating them fine and and I always see one or two munching on them while in there claws. The problem is the place I get them Petco seems to get them not so much infrequently but just not consistently. Sadly all the local pet store are either out of business or special in specific things like tropical fish or cats and dogs, but no exotic pets or things like that. They have other options with other food sources like meal worms, superworms or wax worms, but I would probably have to prekill them. I read on this forum the problem with some of these food if they are not eaten immediately. so that is my question will they eat prekill food at being 2i and after they have hunted up to this point for their food. I mean does the mom still feed them food after this far in development or would they get their own food but stay with mom for protection.


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## 2nscorpx (Jul 3, 2012)

Having to kill any worms before hand is disgusting, I did it once for mealworms and never again. Is there an inconsistency with larger crickets? Those would be easier to pre-kill--or just let the juveniles kill them themselves, scorpions usually can subdue prey larger than themselves. At this point, they would begin fending for themselves, although this species has been found living communally at several different life stages...


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## spiderengineer (Jul 3, 2012)

well if they can take down bigger prey then their self at this stage of there lives then I will use medium size crickets, which are roughly the same size as the scorpions. I figure they couldn't do that until they were bigger. I see there claws and stinger and I feel they just don't have crushing power like their adult counter parts. I figure they still needed another good molt or two before they could be something that you wouldn't want to mess with as in not view as an easy snack by other creature. I guess its all relative when you look at it, I mean they don't look menacing, but if I was a insect of their size I would be more worried.

If I prekilled them would/should they eat them or are they strictly hunting live prey at this point?. I just worry that the crickets of larger size my cause undo harm to them since they are only 2i. Also if I only put in say 2 medium crickets in would they attack together to take it done or is it only the one they gets it gets it. I only ask because obviously I shouldn't nor do I want to put in seven large or medium crickets inside with them for a couple of hours. because I could see that going wrong. I definitely see why Dubai colonies are preferred they have so many pros and yet i see no cons as of yet.


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## 2nscorpx (Jul 4, 2012)

There is a difference from your perception and the scorpion's. They should certainly be able to eat prey of near that size, and if they cannot, so what? They will just run away--the prey shouldn't harm a healthy scorpion, especially one of the size and strength of P. imperator, no matter the size. You could experiment and just remove the prey if it does not work. Not trying to be obnoxious here, but it is always important to remember that they would not be "hand-fed" in nature. They may subdue prey together, many genera (e.g. Tityus, etc.) do that. Also, I don't know if it was a typo, but Dubai=Dubia...these could be more convenient for you, as long as you have enough scorpions that it is worth taking the time. By experience, I have found that crickets are all I need, never lost a scorpion to them, etc. Just try some things...


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## spiderengineer (Jul 4, 2012)

thanks for the info


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## spiderengineer (Jul 10, 2012)

OK now I am confused and angry so last night i found one of them dead upside down and then this morning another one did the same thing. so now I have five left it looks like.


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## 2nscorpx (Jul 10, 2012)

What are the conditions like? Do they have access to a standing water source? Are they currently kept together?


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## spiderengineer (Jul 10, 2012)

I feel like i have them in good condition. the temperature is close to 85 but more around 83 depending on which thermometer. The best I can do for the humidity is 80 percent some times up to 85 on a good day because I know they like high humidity so I stay on top of it so it doesn't go any lower then 80. They have access to water source I have two milk jug caps always full of water next to their hide. They are kept together but the dead ones had no signs of cannibalism and they seem to like to be together. the hide i have in the tank takes up most of the tank so there is room for space underneath but they seem to prefer to be close to each other. the only thing I can think of as to why they died was because they were not developing as well as the others.  here is a pick off all seven taken about two days ago




I know it  looks a littler dirty but I spot check remove dead crickets and dirt that looks molding that was before i clean out the crap. you can even see one has a cricket in it claw and eating. but if you look some are lighter then the others so I figured they just were not developing properly, but i don't know I just know the darker ones are still alive.


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## 2nscorpx (Jul 10, 2012)

Good thing you have been removing prey carcasses, etc. It is most likely that those specimens were simply weaker; I don't know if the lighter coloration was significant, but I do not think so. Good luck with the specimens left.


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## spiderengineer (Jul 10, 2012)

yeah its the only thing i can think of is they died was because they were weaker, but its still strange because it was immediate and no sign that something was wrong. They seemed responsive when I checked on them with a light when I peered into the hide, they were active when I checked on them and do spot cleaning. then the next thing i know is one is upside down not moving literally a couple of hours after i checked on them before and then when i wake up I found another like just like that. it making my brain hurt trying to wrap my head around it what happen to them. I mean i thought possible molting i know they don't flip upside down when they do it, but i have heard cases of it, but upon closer inspection they just seemed to have died with out any sign of problem what so ever before they died so I am just like WTF?


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## Bazzgazm (Jul 10, 2012)

Look, I think ours were born about the same time... mine have molted 2x since leaving moms back... They are in 75* constant and kept moist but not soaking.... if it starts drying out i get it wet again.. but not so much as to still water lying around.. all 30 of them are doing fine.. (other than 1 i can't find, but it's a tunnel system that runs pretty deep)  I seperated them into 10 packs to better keep track of them eating and molting, and next time they molt i'll split them up into 5's and get them ready to sell (by that time, it will be nicer shipping weather).

Overall. the simpler you keep things the better.. too wet is just as bad as too dry...  sometimes things just don't thrive... I always have a gecko or 2 that just doesn't live.... the hatchling mate will be fine, eating, pooping and growing.. and then, one of them just decides he doesn't eat or poop.. and dies.... they're simple organisms... and they do this.. and the ones that don't survive (especially in arachnids) becomes a meal for the ones that do.... all in all.... there's not much you can do but give them the best care you can possibly do.


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## spiderengineer (Jul 10, 2012)

yeah, I realize that some will just die and there is nothing we can do, I guess I am just taking it hard since this is the first time I had raise scorpion from the very beginning and image I will get use to it happening when I have more batches it will probably not even phase after a while . I like to think I have the tank at right temp and humidity I know its not to dry, but i like to thinks its not too wet either their is no standing water in the tank or extremely soaked.

If I am understanding you then your scorpions are at 3i, I know molting is not an exact science and very, but then should I be getting ready for mine to molt.


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## Nicd91 (May 4, 2016)

I'm having the same problem you did 
The mother gave birth in April 30 and died the 3rd I just got her body out the tank I was wondering if i should put the baby's in a small container for now till they are a little bigger 
Help would be nice I have no idea what to since the moms dead


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## darkness975 (May 5, 2016)

Holy necro thread Batman ! 

@Nicd91 see the links and advice posted in the beginning of this thread. It should hopefully get you on the right path.


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