# Need advise: Theraphosa with no fangs



## mingu (Mar 17, 2009)

I bought this T yesterday. I tried to fed her a baby rat and noticed that she had no fangs. I called the seller and he said that the spider molted a month ago and ate some grashoppers, before he sold it to me. Below are some pictures. How could this happen? What should i do?


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## Julia (Mar 17, 2009)

What the HECK??  Those pictures make it appear that the fangs were chopped off.  Then again, I don't have experience with Ts who actually lose them in a bad molt.  Is that what it looks like?

You'll have to pre-kill the food...and slice the food open so at least she can slurp up the insides.  Poor thing.


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## Bird Man (Mar 17, 2009)

It kinda looks like they were clipped off some how. I would try and feed her a cricket instead of a baby rat and see if she can still eat. Then I'd hope when she molts, she got new fangs.


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## Godzirra (Mar 17, 2009)

I would think that if it was not defanged then the fang areas would be more hollow/non-existant with no stumps, but there are stumps. 
If it were defanged, what methods do they use - i mean nail clippers lol
Are you sure it wasn't a feeder tarantula for another animal.

Would you have to mush up the food for it?
Hope it survives,


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## un33dit (Mar 17, 2009)

I remember seeing this question quite a few times. If you do a search you can find many posts. After a quick review of some of them, this one seemed like it had the most information (Alot are people bashing the owners)http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=35915&highlight=T+blondi+missing+fangs

Good luck. Keep us updated.

-Gary


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## mingu (Mar 17, 2009)

Thanks for the info. *I had her since yesterday.*
Can both fangs break off at the same time, without trying feeding her?
Because I can not belief that this incident could happen today or yesterday.


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## bamato (Mar 17, 2009)

I haven't been in the tarantula hobby for as long as some of the veterans around here, but those look to have been clipped.  Tarantulas with broken fangs wouldn't have such clean breaks on the fangs, they'd be jagged and splintered.  

Even in the SLIGHTEST chance it molted and the fangs had some sort of developmental problem, there would be weird scar-ing or something.

That just looks too clean.  And it seems to me the seller is up to something....

I hope it makes it, keep us updated.


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## Moltar (Mar 17, 2009)

It looks to me like the base of what's left of her fangs is still a little red. It's possible that the previous owner tried to feed her way to early, she went ahead and took the prey (sometimes they're stupid like that) and broke her fangs. That's a pretty conveniently perfect break though, if this is the case. The alternative, of course is that she was de-fanged deliberately which for a freshly molted spider might be a death sentence or at least a long road to recovery.

My initial thought is that someone owes you a refund. Barring that however your best bet is to try the methods you'll see referenced in thread after thread on T's with broken fangs; cricket soup, gut-slashed crickets, lots of water, etc. etc... Find a method that she responds to and keep it up until she molts.


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## dehaani (Mar 17, 2009)

I've had experience with a couple of defanged centipedes. They tried to eat but couldn't. I had to feed them cricket/roach soup until the next moult. It's not pleasant but it's all I could do. Please keep us posted. This is interesting and alarming because I can hardly imagine someone would defang a tarantula but that's what it looks like.


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## Londoner (Mar 17, 2009)

It's sad to say, but it's not unheard of for people to "de-fang" Ts. However it happened, the main thing is to get it through to it's next molt. You look pretty confident with a pinch-hold, so that'll help if you do end up having to sryinge-feed it mushed crix. What specie is it btw?


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## mingu (Mar 17, 2009)

Guys, i got some good news. I made some cockroaches soup and i think she ate it. First i made a littlebit then i made a bigger plate for her and *she's hungry*. I made a photoshoot of how i made the soup. 




































*Here, you can see the T holding the cap of the bottle. *

*Now the bigger plate.*


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## ReMoVeR (Mar 17, 2009)

oh my goodness!!! these pics are AMAZING and epic! damn! this would be sticky on how to feed de-fanged Ts:O damn... it is really amazing how it looks like a baby beeing fed! Congratulations m8!

Cheers,

//Tiago


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## bamato (Mar 17, 2009)

That is awesome!  And at the same time kind of disgusting....

But I'm really impressed actually   Thanks for posting pics


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## Pociemon (Mar 17, 2009)

Yes very nice pictures. I really hope she will make it;-)


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## un33dit (Mar 17, 2009)

Great news and pics!

Looks like you got your work cut out for you untill the next molt!


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## raveinchris (Mar 17, 2009)

that has to be the nastiest thing ive seen but i wish you and your T luck.


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## bamato (Mar 17, 2009)

Now at this size would this girl regrow her fangs in entirety in one molt?  Or would they regenerate like legs and be smaller and slightly under developed?  Would they be completely usable you think?


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## Sathane (Mar 17, 2009)

Wow.  Those definitely look like they were chopped but I don't want to point fingers...

I'm glad that it looks like it's taking to the cricket soup.   It'll be alot of work for the next little while but definitely worth it.


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## treeweta (Mar 17, 2009)

i had a 5 inch blondi lose its fangs at a moult, i fed it a similar soup with a dropper and holding the spider, your method could allow an easier method to get food into its mouth. my spider did eventually die, it was young and so unlike an adult was still growing so needed lots of food. an easier way of making the soup is to use a small mortar and pestile, i got it from a science supplies shop, you can 'efficiently' pulp a roach or two once its chopped up a bit (its a horrid job for sure)

those fangs do look clipped off, thats really weird. becuase of the problem with blondis and fang loss i now try and over feed mine so they are still quite fat post moult.

incidentally that looks rather like a pink foot goliath.


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## bobsleaf (Mar 17, 2009)

Amazing pictures! Poor spider, I'm sure she'll make it if you keep feeding such yummy goodness.:} 

Well done to you for having such dedication.


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## skinnyb (Mar 17, 2009)

That "soup" is completely disgusting and almost made me gag... but that just shows how awesome your pics are! I think it's great that your T was able to slurp it up.. Good Luck and hopefully she heals ok


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## Sukai94 (Mar 17, 2009)

That T is very lucky to have to as its owner. 

Can you imagine how relieved she must have felt to find soup in her enclosure? 

The best of luck to you! Keep us updated on how she is doing!


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## Hamburglar (Mar 17, 2009)

Nice job...  I, of course, have no idea how the fangs could have ended up like that.  It is a shame though.  The only thing I might suggest is to make the soup a bit less watery some of the time.  I would guess that the more bug it is getting the better.  I understand that it has to be thin enough to drink successfully though.


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## Miss Bianca (Mar 18, 2009)

OK first of all thanks for sharing this experience and those awersome pics (yes even the ones of that nasty soup  ) 

ok.. now was this purchased in person or online or what? 
If it was purchased in person, in my opinion I'd have given the T a full 
'cavity search' so to speak, and checked it 'from head to toe', before purchasing...
 if it was online I mean did you get an explanation? Anything that made sense? This could not have just _happened._ I would demand an explanation at the very least and wow even a refund or partial refund, except you are trying to nurse it back to health- which is _great_!- kudos to you. I'd prob do the same.
I really wish you well and will stay tuned for news about her next molt. 
Foul play was definitely involved here I think. Also- not that it's relevant, but you tried to feed a tarantula you'd just had for a day a pinkie!? and before observing and checking for something as drastic (to me) as no fangs!! (poor baby) I don't know that that's advisable or the norm, but as I stated, it doesn't matter now. 
Again, I hope for the best... this T looks great otherwise.


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## DreadLobster (Mar 18, 2009)

This happened to me once, and your blondi's fangs (or lack there of) look almost the exact same as what my LP's looked like. I don't have any pictures though.

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=113400&highlight=L.+Parahybana+missing+fangs.

If its figured out it can eat the crushed up crickets, you're fine. Just have to do that disgusting chore every now and again... I wouldn't go overboard, just enough to get her through to the next molt. They really don't NEED to eat much as long as they have water. I did the same thing with those big pre-killed (and horribly stinky) crickets you can get in cans at pet stores. 

I doubt it was anyone's fault. She could have bitten into something hard, or they could've been defective from a molt. And even if it was someone's fault, just figure out what happened and learn from it. Bottom line is, if she's eating, she'll be fine. Good luck.


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## mingu (Mar 18, 2009)

Thanks all, for the advise. I learnt alot the last 2 days on this forum. Not that i' am a T noob, but i never had to care for a T with no fangs. I just contacted the seller. He said that I can bring my T to him and get the money i paid back, but i' am a little bit *frustated*. *I really want this T to make it to the next molt*, but then again i paid a lot of money for a T who's has no fangs and a 50 % ratio to make it (i think). I would feel guilty if i bring the T back. I need to have a few days to think this over. I will try to work something out with the seller.


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## RoachGirlRen (Mar 18, 2009)

It's wonderful to see you making such an effort to help this tarantula :clap: Kudos to you for your efforts. 

IMO it is extremely unethical of the seller to not give you at least a partial refund for a defective animal even IF you chose to keep it. From a business relations perspective, he messed up selling this animal, so the loss should he wish to keep a customer ought to be his, not yours. It is also a red flag to me that he didn't notice a problem this profound when he was feeding it or catching it to give you - I mean it's a blondi; we're not exactly talking about a tiny sling with tiny fangs. I personally wonder if this animal would be sold to some other poor sap if it were returned. I definitely would understand returning it, however, knowing what a T like this of that size costs - I don't envy your dilemma here at all!

Anyways, keep us posted both on the T and the situation with the seller!


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## mingu (Mar 18, 2009)

I just looked in the hidingplace of my T, to make sure she has eaten from the soup. I found little leftovers of the soup, so i took some pictures to get a second opinion.











*This should be a good sign, right?*


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## brandi71183 (Mar 18, 2009)

Oh no! That poor thing. It does look like they were clipped off.


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## treeweta (Mar 18, 2009)

that little ball of food, potentially the spiders pumping stomach could draw food upinto the mouth cavity and then suck the liquid resulting in that little ball, when a spider feeds its fangs seem to press the food into the mouth area and i assume squeeze the fliuid close enough to be sucked in, without the fangs it will do this far less efficiantly but i suggest it can at least get some food.

however, the lack of venom in the food will probably mean that its not able to ingest as much as normal again, i'll hazard a guess that the venom predigests many molecules, i wonder to what degree any predigestion is necessary?


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## treeweta (Mar 18, 2009)

mingu.

i really recommend a pestile and mortaer if you want to go long term with this spider, the resulting soup is quite homogeneous and I suggest it will break up most individual cells and release the contents.  eek.


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## Sathane (Mar 18, 2009)

mingu said:


> Thanks all, for the advise. I learnt alot the last 2 days on this forum. Not that i' am a T noob, but i never had to care for a T with no fangs. I just contacted the seller. He said that I can bring my T to him and get the money i paid back, but i' am a little bit *frustated*. *I really want this T to make it to the next molt*, but then again i paid a lot of money for a T who's has no fangs and a 50 % ratio to make it (i think). I would feel guilty if i bring the T back. I need to have a few days to think this over. I will try to work something out with the seller.


I really wouldn't bring it back.  I would ask for, at least, a partial refund though.  Bringing it back may result in the T being sold to someone who wouldn't notice it was missing it's fangs, or, possibly even killed and thrown away.  It's in much better hands with you.


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## citizen_smithi (Mar 18, 2009)

I say stick with it, it'll be one of your proudest T keeping stories, and already is I'm sure! Plus that T deserves to be with you instead of someone who pays such little attention to their animals that theuy don't notice when pieces of it are missing!

Godd work sir and keep it up! :worship:


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## treeweta (Mar 18, 2009)

mingu, is this the same spider as the one in the 'big apophysis' thread?


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## fang333999 (Mar 18, 2009)

stick with the blondi dude, its better in your hands like they said above. who knows who would buy it and most likely mistreat it


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## Godzirra (Mar 18, 2009)

The soup was the most disgustingly awesome thing I've seen, i can hear the crunching now. You did a great job and congratulations, thank you so much for the pics!!!
Maybe next time you can video tape her feeding if you catch her/him.


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## mingu (Mar 18, 2009)

treeweta said:


> mingu, is this the same spider as the one in the 'big apophysis' thread?


Yes, this is the same spider. I bought this spider as a blondi, but i think it's a apophysis.


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## mingu (Mar 18, 2009)

treeweta said:


> mingu.
> 
> i really recommend a pestile and mortaer if you want to go long term with this spider, the resulting soup is quite homogeneous and I suggest it will break up most individual cells and release the contents.  eek.



I have no idea where i can buy a pestile and mortaer.


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## treeweta (Mar 18, 2009)

mingu said:


> I have no idea where i can buy a pestile and mortaer.



i got mine from a local education/science supplies shop, you could quite easily find one online (i see you are in belgium).

as that is the same spider, an adult T apophysis, you have a good chance with her.

 With each moult an adult tarantula barely grows (they do grow but only very slightly), they simply renew the skin, meaning that she should have the reserves to complete the moult. years ago i had a wild caught poecilotheia that had the smallest abdomen and wouldnt feed, i thought it would die but it actually moulted ok.


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## Marcink125 (Mar 18, 2009)

Brilliant idea!!!!!!


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## Sukai94 (Mar 18, 2009)

As for the venom and digestion thing, I wonder if you can take half eaten crickets from your T's with fangs and make that into soup.

Although I assume he is the only T you have of that species and I don't think mixing venom from other species is a good idea.


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## thedude (Mar 18, 2009)

Sukai94 said:


> As for the venom and digestion thing, I wonder if you can take half eaten crickets from your T's with fangs and make that into soup.
> 
> Although I assume he is the only T you have of that species and I don't think mixing venom from other species is a good idea.


or still mixing withen the same species.. i hear black widow venom is alot more harmful to members of the same species


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## mingu (Mar 18, 2009)

DreadLobster said:


> This happened to me once, and your blondi's fangs (or lack there of) look almost the exact same as what my LP's looked like. I don't have any pictures though.
> 
> http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=113400&highlight=L.+Parahybana+missing+fangs.
> 
> ...


How did your T lost his/her fangs?

I was thinking to feed her as much as possible, because she just molted a month ago. It could be a year or more before she wil molt again.

I also have heard that T's will molt sooner to recover damaged limps. Is this true?


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## EightLeggedFrea (Mar 18, 2009)

Wow. Nice work on the "soup" and I hope she makes it.

If it were me I would've just brought the T back to whoever sold it and raise some serious cane. I salute you, sir.


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## bamato (Mar 18, 2009)

Yeah but when you think about whats best for the T, it's obvious that it's being in his care 

Granted I'd still be upset that the seller would send something like that to me... >:-(


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## mingu (Mar 19, 2009)

Ok guys, i found a topic with the same problem. Here's a link.
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=92810&page=3

If you look at page 1, you will see a blondi with deformed fangs, but if you look at page 3 you will see that the fangs look alike as the fangs of my T. (so i don't think my T was defanged). 
The owner handfed her weekly and it seemed the T was doing wel, but unfortunately she died a year later. You could read this on page 5.
I have also read that the owner dried the cage out to discourage the mites (also on page 5).
A other problem i have to face is, my T can't clean itself without the fangs. Does anyone have ideas how i can fix this?


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## Miss Bianca (Mar 19, 2009)

mingu said:


> Ok guys, i found a topic with the same problem. Here's a link.
> http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=92810&page=3
> 
> If you look at page 1, you will see a blondi with deformed fangs, but if you look at page 3 you will see that the fangs look alike as the fangs of my T. (so i don't think my T was defanged).
> ...


OK so since you have a handicapped T basically, and even have to feed it yourself or assist it, I'd say it could be possible to assist it in basic cleaning also... if absolutely necessary... maybe with a soft paint brush or tooth brush? I mean, he won't get like, muddy or anything right?  ......... again, I really wish you allthe best with this T..


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## DMP (Mar 19, 2009)

Awesome job man.  Great photos and great effort and heart.


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## DreadLobster (Mar 19, 2009)

mingu said:


> How did your T lost his/her fangs?
> 
> I was thinking to feed her as much as possible, because she just molted a month ago. It could be a year or more before she wil molt again.
> 
> I also have heard that T's will molt sooner to recover damaged limps. Is this true?


I remembered while I was at work today that I forgot to mention the T uses is fangs to clean its mouth... so the risk of mites is higher. I see you already noticed that though so good.

That was my reason for saying not to feed it too much... I figure the more soup it gets caked onto its mouth the more of a problem mites will be. Maybe you could clean its mouth for it somehow? At least you don't have to worry about getting bit trying to accomplish this  


As for the molting faster to recover limbs, I have also read that, but I can't say that I've ever seen one bit of evidence or confirmation. If its true then awesome. But I can't say that I know much about that subject.

And I'm not sure how mine lost his. I didn't notice they were gone until quite a while after his last molt before that. I'm betting he lost them in the molt, and the crickets were just hiding so I thought he ate them. They don't live too long anyway. 

I'd say keep it. If its eating, all you have to worry about is mites. And the grossness of making roach soup.


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## kalvaer (Mar 19, 2009)

WOW.. thats just incredible. I wouldn't have known were to even start with something like that if it happened to me.

Very nicely done.


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## bigdog999 (Mar 19, 2009)

just to throw my two cents in.  It's a tough decision whether to keep or return a sick animal.  I bought a boa about a year ago.  I posted his pictures on a few snake forums.  I was told that there was something wrong with the snake.  After eating his throat would puff up.  Anyways I contacted the breeder who checked him out and said he thought it was just a scratch in the throat and that it would recover.  Peeps in the forum said to return it etc.  I made the decision to keep it although at the time when I bought it, I thought I was buying a ball python.  Now a year later, my 120 gram sick boa is a very healthy 850 gram garbage can.  Anything that passes in front of his nose gets eaten.  Doesn't matter if it live or frozen.  So good luck in your decision.


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## mingu (Mar 19, 2009)

mingu said:


> Thanks all, for the advise. I learnt alot the last 2 days on this forum. Not that i' am a T noob, but i never had to care for a T with no fangs. I just contacted the seller. He said that I can bring my T to him and get the money i paid back, but i' am a little bit *frustated*. *I really want this T to make it to the next molt*, but then again i paid a lot of money for a T who's has no fangs and a 50 % ratio to make it (i think). I would feel guilty if i bring the T back. I need to have a few days to think this over.* I will try to work something out with the seller*.


*I talked to the previous owner today, and i am really pissed off now. *I paid him 180 euro's for this T. So i proposed him to pay 60 euro's for this fangless T with cage. He rejected the offer. I don't understand wy he would 't accept my offer. No one wants to pay money for a fangless T, right? 
I didn 't make a choice yet to bring the T back or keep her. 
I don't like to tell you this, but i was thinking to bring the T back to him. I will tell him then, that my offer still stands and i hope he will change his mind.


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## wedge07 (Mar 19, 2009)

I think you should keep the T.  It is obviously getting good care from you and probably won't make it if given back.


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## bamato (Mar 19, 2009)

Whoa... you paid good money for that T.  I guess I would be upset to if I had a fangless blondi for 180 euros.... Thats a tough call dude...


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## DFox (Mar 19, 2009)

mmmmm.... :drool: 

Don't you just love the taste of some creamy B. lateralis soup in the morning?


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## mingu (Mar 22, 2009)

Unfortunately i made the choice to bring the T back. The previous owner asked me, how he could keep his T alive and well, so i gave him some tips. He also mentioned a tarantula gel? *Do someone nows what this gel is used for? *
The T is now in a petstore with a guy i now well. I can check the T weekly and give you a update (if you want) of how the T is doing.


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## Neophyte (Mar 22, 2009)

Tarantula gel no matter what it is seems like a big nono, In my opnion it's that water gel that provides no hydration whatsover for the T.


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## ZergFront (Sep 21, 2009)

bamato said:


> That is awesome!  And at the same time kind of disgusting....
> 
> But I'm really impressed actually   Thanks for posting pics


 Yeah but I give the OP credit for the great effort made to save the tarantula.


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## Stopdroproll (Sep 22, 2009)

Any updates?


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