# Sick videos on Youtube



## sja69 (Feb 15, 2011)

It amazes me how many ignorant people there are out there. Every time I go on YouTube to look for 
videos on Tarantula care & handling, I always seem to come across a video of someone filming a 
Tarantula & Scorpion or 2 Tarantulas fighting till the death, while these idiots are laughing in the 
background. 
The other day I typed in 'Brachypelma Albopolisum' and on the first page there was a video of some 
Russian kid putting a fully grown mouse (which was actually bigger than the Tarantula) into the tank. 
I actually watched this because I thought that there was no way that the T was going to go for the 
mouse - not at that size. But I was wrong, and a disturbing fight ensued which resulted in the pair 
rolling about and a nightmarish squealing coming from the mouse. 
There was also another similar video, though a bit grainy, where the mouse looked even bigger and 
the noise from the suffering mouse was like something out of a nightmare. I couldn't believe what I 
was seeing and hearing. 
Anyway, every time I come across these kinds of videos I flag and report them as animal abuse, so 
hopefully they will get taken down. Has anyone else come across these?


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## demasoni521 (Feb 15, 2011)

Yes, I've seen them before. I've even seen a video that "tested" an OBT's venom by putting a 3 inch specimen with a nearly full grown mouse. I mean it's understandable to feed large tarantulas such as T. Blondi mice occasionally but the majority of the stuff on YouTube is unnecesary.


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## RoseT (Feb 15, 2011)

yeah, It completely pisses me off....I seen this one video the other day of a A. Chacolades being bugged the sh*t out of by these dudes who thought it would be funny to keep poking at it with a stick while it was desperately in flee for its life....Those are the ones that deserve to get bit and stung.


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## Chris_Skeleton (Feb 15, 2011)

demasoni521 said:


> I mean it's understandable to feed large tarantulas such as T. Blondi mice occasionally


No it's not.


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## Suidakkra (Feb 15, 2011)

Flag and report the videos under Animal Abuse. I flag every video I see like that, and then send an email with the video URL to the administrators of YouTube basically explaining that Tarantulas are in fact animals, peoples pets, and that its cruel and inhumane treatment of the animals being shown in those videos. Although many see it as just "bugs", it's the same as dog fighting, rooster fighting, etc. 

I usually have a few friends copy cat the flagging also, just to get the point across.



demasoni521 said:


> . I mean it's understandable to feed large tarantulas such as T. Blondi mice occasionally


Actually you are setting a T.blondi up for molting issues because of the calcium that is absorbed from the mouse, or any other T to be honest. T.blondi are susceptible to wet molts even without the added calcium.  It's like playing roulette with your T's life. 

Also there is a chance that the tarantula could be injured if the mouse is large enough to cause issues. Even a smaller mouse can cause significant injury. I know of a time when a small mouse actually killed a Ball Python once, it's amazing how those fuzzy little cuties can break bad on something when it's life is in danger.


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## Spidershane1 (Feb 16, 2011)

In response to it not being ok to ever feed your T's mice, I dont think that statement is absolute. I know of a few experienced breeders who feed females of large species(theraphosa & lasiodora) a mouse immediately prior to a mating attempt to reduce the chances of the male getting eaten. It seems to work for the most part from whats been observed, with no bad molts. 

As for the videos on youtube, those things disgust me. Animals killing animals is one thing, but when its for people entertainment its just sick. I especially hate japanesebugfights. It amazes me how closed minded people are when they cant see that anything that moves is a living creature just like them. Somehow when an animals body is arranged in a dramatically different way than a humans, people just lose any sense of compassion for it. Sad face ------>


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## 2oCHEVYo0 (Feb 16, 2011)

Chris_Skeleton said:


> No it's not.


Actually, it's fine to feed them a mouse every once in a great while... Not like they don't occasionally eat them in the wild. Besides, there really isn't much difference between a mouse and a cricket. They both die the same way... It's the circle of life, no reason to make it out to be more. I understand the argument of how it could make molting harder, but once every year or two isn't going to kill it. I feed my Redknee frogs every now and again.

I do however hate all these videos about tarantula's vs ... well whatever they think would get views. There's sooo much more to tarantula's than that. I honestly like watching mine web and explore more than I do actually watching them feed, though occasionally there is a good chase.

Anyways, just my opinion on the subject.


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## orzechova (Feb 16, 2011)

2oCHEVYo0 said:


> Besides, there really isn't much difference between a mouse and a cricket. They both die the same way... It's the circle of life, no reason to make it out to be more.


mice are fluffy and they have big wet eyes,do they suffer more than a cricket that is just a stupid bug-that's what the most people think. I've read some articles about how the invertebrates feel pain,but as far as I know the scientists are still not agreeable about it;

however, when feeding my spider [i know that it would eat even a carcass] i feel kind of obliged to minimize the risk of it being injured, and i also don't find it funny to watch and hear the mouse suffering. [i'm lazy-it's far easier to feed a female before mating with mouse than with 20 roaches] that's why i personally kill the mouse with co2. it may be stupid, but i think this kind of death is less painful and much faster for the mouse, so i don't feel pangs of conscience. 

imo, people who make this kind of vids - 6cm L.parahybana struggling with an adult mouse [or a chick] may be stupid- child-minded who want to impress their friends with the killer spider they own-or also may be psychopaths who draw satisfaction watching something suffering badly [and in few years may torture human, should be immediately put in prison for life ]

PS. forgive me my mistakes-i'm not very good at english


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## Chris_Skeleton (Feb 16, 2011)

2oCHEVYo0 said:


> Actually, it's fine to feed them a mouse every once in a great while... Not like they don't occasionally eat them in the wild. Besides, there really isn't much difference between a mouse and a cricket. They both die the same way... It's the circle of life, no reason to make it out to be more. I understand the argument of how it could make molting harder, but once every year or two isn't going to kill it. I feed my Redknee frogs every now and again.
> 
> I do however hate all these videos about tarantula's vs ... well whatever they think would get views. There's sooo much more to tarantula's than that. I honestly like watching mine web and explore more than I do actually watching them feed, though occasionally there is a good chase.
> 
> Anyways, just my opinion on the subject.


Using the reasoning of "it happens in the wild" doesn't make any argument valid whether it be feeding or anything else. They aren't in the wild, they're in captivity.


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## treeweta (Feb 16, 2011)

im not sure deliberate 'cruelty' to invertebrates is illegal as a general rule but aside what amazes me is the display of ignorance under such videos.

 firstly the enjoyment of deliberately setting up a fight is somewhat twisted but i guess as many people like watching two men kick each other half to death in a ring its hardly surprising that armour plated, huge jawed or stingered bugs will be subject to the same treatment. 

Im aways dismayed at the comments, they will vary from those condemning the fight but saying 'i'd kill you if i met you' to the instigator of the bug fight, right through to 'ugh, horrid things, i'd just stamp on them both'.

never a sane medium on youtube.


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## Scolopeon (Feb 16, 2011)

demasoni521 said:


> Yes, I've seen them before. I've even seen a video that "tested" an OBT's venom by putting a 3 inch specimen with a nearly full grown mouse. I mean it's understandable to feed large tarantulas such as T. Blondi mice occasionally but the majority of the stuff on YouTube is unnecesary.


I personally do not agree to feeding live mice to T's, yet I have fed a live mice to my monitor lizard (3'5") which I don't like doing but he went off of frozen mice for a while.

I can understand when an animal is so large it needs large food, but a tarantula (with the exception of the giants) should never need a full grown live mouse... pinkies are fine.

A tarantula that is capable of taking a large mouse will still make it suffer more than having it's neck broken by the crushing jaws of a large lizard.


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## 2oCHEVYo0 (Feb 16, 2011)

Chris_Skeleton said:


> Using the reasoning of "it happens in the wild" doesn't make any argument valid whether it be feeding or anything else. They aren't in the wild, they're in captivity.


It's plenty valid... You think just because they are in captivity that they should be fed only part of what they would eat in the wild? How's that fair? That's like you being in captivity and only given Vegetables because they are healthier... Wouldn't you like to have a nice steak or some sizzling bacon? The only reason I feel people have a problem with feeding mice is that they are mammals and are considered adorable to many. And oh it sounds terrible when they die. I agree with you, it does sound terrible. But it's still a staple in there diet and I will not ignore that


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## Suidakkra (Feb 16, 2011)

treeweta said:


> im not sure deliberate 'cruelty' to invertebrates is illegal as a general rule .


Sadly so.  Federal , as well as many State and Local laws, fail to mention inverts in their "general" examples of animals listed. 

However, with YouTube,  I have seen those videos taken down when enough people complain and flag the videos. Especially when there are several emails sent to the administration of YouTube with the explanation that the inverts are in fact, living animals. 

Not saying it always happens, but it does happen enough to notice that someone in YouTube land cares about animals, no matter the classification.


Now the bug fighting websites, that is an entirely different monster unfortunately.


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## Chris_Skeleton (Feb 16, 2011)

2oCHEVYo0 said:


> It's plenty valid... You think just because they are in captivity that they should be fed only part of what they would eat in the wild? How's that fair? That's like you being in captivity and only given Vegetables because they are healthier... Wouldn't you like to have a nice steak or some sizzling bacon? The only reason I feel people have a problem with feeding mice is that they are mammals and are considered adorable to many. And oh it sounds terrible when they die. I agree with you, it does sound terrible. But it's still a staple in there diet and I will not ignore that


Well don't ignore the fact that they could come across birds in the wild. So go buy some baby birds and feed them to your T also. Just because it comes across it in the wild, doesn't make it the staple. Staple means the main diet anyway, not an occasional feeding. 

CB spiders are not in the wild nor have they ever been. So saying a mouse is a staple is completely untrue. I'll use your example. If I were in captivity and was fed only vegetables from the time I was born until now, I would never know that steak or bacon ever even existed much less even know what it is or that I had the opportunity to eat it. Now apply that to a CB spider, not only does it not know that mice exist, it does not crave them. 

Do you feed your spiders WC prey from your yard?

It rains in the wild, floods also. Am I gonna dump a gallon of water into my Ts enclosure? No. Is that fair?


My dogs would probably eat deer crap if they were in the wild. Does this make it a staple? No. Do I need to feed it to them? No. Just like my dog, you're spider is not in the wild. It is in your care. So the argument of "it happens in the wild" is not valid.


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## 2oCHEVYo0 (Feb 16, 2011)

Well that is your opinion, I will stick with mine


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## Spidershane1 (Feb 16, 2011)

2oCHEVYo0 said:


> Well that is your opinion, I will stick with mine


I like this response


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## Chris_Skeleton (Feb 16, 2011)

2oCHEVYo0 said:


> Well that is your opinion, I will stick with mine


Actually those were facts, not opinions 

I'm curious how anyone even knows they come across mice in the wild. Do the arboreal species come across them? No. I'm sure many tarantulas in the wild NEVER cross paths with a mouse. Has it been documented? Honestly the "it happens in the wild" argument is an excuse to do it. *I don't think anyone feeds mice because it happens in the wild, but because mice are the available alternative.* Saying "it happens in the wild" is just a way to justify it. If pet stores sold "feeder geckos" and they were common such as mice, and no one used mice as feeders, then your argument would be exactly the same. In reality, it's the availability why people do it. Simply put.

I doubt tarantulas come across mice as much as people like to say they do.


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## zonbonzovi (Feb 16, 2011)

I'm still waiting for documentation on the whole calcium thing which no one to date has provided, otherwise this whole, ahem, debate is a wash.  So...anybody have said documentation?


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## BigJ999 (Feb 16, 2011)

Ive always found tarantula's to be oppotunistic when it came to food and prey items.


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## browny95 (Feb 16, 2011)

I Totally agree... When i see these videos they utterly piss me off even so when they are laughing in the background


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## Mez (Feb 16, 2011)

How 'set-up' are the Nat Geo programs? Like when they find a T. blondi in the wild in its burrow, is that going to be a wild T. blondi or is it going to be a 'planted' T. blondi? As ive seen them eat mice on programs like this, and there is videos of this on youtube. Dosnt mean to say its not 'staged' though, as i know a lot of snake 'finding' type tv progams are planted snakes.
I dont feed my Ts mice. I like to see them feed, and i cant really feed them a mouse every week. I also dont think theres any need to. Ive often heard of a possible calcium problem with feeding mice relating to moulting. Ive _never_ heard of any problems due to the lack of mice or other small mammal in the diet.
Just my opinion.
Mez


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## Pociemon (Feb 16, 2011)

zonbonzovi said:


> I'm still waiting for documentation on the whole calcium thing which no one to date has provided, otherwise this whole, ahem, debate is a wash.  So...anybody have said documentation?


Dont expect anyone to have proof. It is just opinions. Some do it, some dont, it is the same deal with handling. The only thing you know will happen is a heated debate when these topics occur, and that´s a fact ;-)

Your opinion is as good as anyones in here. I only very rarely feed mice to my T´s, only before breeding i consider offering a female one, otherwise not because of the risks involved.


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## Obelisk (Feb 16, 2011)

Is there any evidence that shows that captive T's need to be fed vertebrates? Generations of healthy T's have been bred and raised on crickets, roaches etc.  

Wild T's do eat the occasional lizard/rodent, though it's most likely because they'll go for anything they can get their fangs on. I'm not offended when I see videos of T's eating live mice or whatever. However, I can't help but see the weakness in their stating that the T's _need_ it, when all they can say to support their claim is to say that a tarantula in the wild would go for one. It's merely a way of justifying their feeding of vertebrates for entertainment reasons.


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## Scorpendra (Feb 16, 2011)

What these guys are making videos of is bloodsport, not innocently feeding their spiders. The mice they throw in can do some serious harm.

Tarantulas feed opportunistically, they eat whatever they can get. But at the same time, they are not at the top of the food chain and countless ones die every day from things like predation and injury. That's why eggsacs contain so many offspring. Mimicking the natural environment to the point where your terrarium includes this part of their lives is missing the point of owning them as pets. If "It happens in the wild" is your argument, you might as well be encouraging fungal growth and parasites.

Reactions: Like 1


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## zonbonzovi (Feb 16, 2011)

Thomas said:


> Dont expect anyone to have proof. It is just opinions. Some do it, some dont, it is the same deal with handling. The only thing you know will happen is a heated debate when these topics occur, and that´s a fact ;-)
> 
> Your opinion is as good as anyones in here. I only very rarely feed mice to my T´s, only before breeding i consider offering a female one, otherwise not because of the risks involved.


Thomas, I understand, it's just tiresome to see people get eviscerated over a topic that we have no evidence for.  Specifically, that feeding rodents to tarantulas leads to a calcium overload leads to wet molt/death/explosion/insanity/etc.  I'm mostly bothered that, in previous threads on the subject, some folks are admamant that this is the case even though it's strictly conjecture at this time.  I don't mind the debates or opinions.  It's the flogging of dead horses that gets to me


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## hassman789 (Feb 16, 2011)

I was looking to see if there were any tarantula apps for my ipod and I found this japanese app that was called "bug arena". It was horrible, they made tarantulas fight with a bunch of stuff (I saw their pictures) and they weren't just using a common G. rosea they were using like colbolt blues and stuff, It was horrible. From their app pictures I could see the tarantula bleeding.


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## Chris_Skeleton (Feb 16, 2011)

Mez said:


> How 'set-up' are the Nat Geo programs? Like when they find a T. blondi in the wild in its burrow, is that going to be a wild T. blondi or is it going to be a 'planted' T. blondi? As ive seen them eat mice on programs like this, and there is videos of this on youtube. Dosnt mean to say its not 'staged' though, as i know a lot of snake 'finding' type tv progams are planted snakes.
> I dont feed my Ts mice. I like to see them feed, and i cant really feed them a mouse every week. I also dont think theres any need to. Ive often heard of a possible calcium problem with feeding mice relating to moulting. Ive _never_ heard of any problems due to the lack of mice or other small mammal in the diet.
> Just my opinion.
> Mez


They are very staged. That's like how my nephew loves Ts also. He's 10 and a few weeks ago he brought home a book called creepy creatures or something that was filled snakes, bats, bugs, and spiders. I immediately flipped to the T section to see the stuff they got wrong. So I'm looking at the pictures and I see the caption "desert tarantulas often feed on lizards." The sad part was it was an Aphonopelma hentzi eating a leopard gecko. :barf: Yeah.. Like that could ever happen in the wild. Two different continents :wall: I can't believe the crap people do just to have a picture of it in a book. That book also said that "the tarantulas real name is mygalomorph."

As Mez said, there is a possibility of calcium contributing to bad molts. Yeah it's not been proven, but there is no risk whatsoever in NOT feeding them mice, so why risk it. 

My argument isn't that the calcium does/doesn't do anything. It's not proven so I can't argue that, but the "it happens in the wild" excuse is purely ridiculous.


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## Suidakkra (Feb 17, 2011)

zonbonzovi said:


> I'm still waiting for documentation on the whole calcium thing which no one to date has provided, otherwise this whole, ahem, debate is a wash.  So...anybody have said documentation?





zonbonzovi said:


> Thomas, I understand, it's just tiresome to see people get eviscerated over a topic that we have no evidence for.  Specifically, that feeding rodents to tarantulas leads to a calcium overload leads to wet molt/death/explosion/insanity/etc.  I'm mostly bothered that, in previous threads on the subject, some folks are admamant that this is the case even though it's strictly conjecture at this time.  I don't mind the debates or opinions.  It's the flogging of dead horses that gets to me



Of course, that is your opinion, and I have mine. There are plenty of keepers out there that noticed wet molts from increased calcium intake of Theraphosa, coincidence, possibly but I see no benefit of feeding mice to risk it.

 There are plenty of topics covering it in this here forum, as well as others. Are there any published reads on the subject? , who knows, but until there is documentation to prove either/or, I will refrain from feeding my larger tarantulas mice.

 There are plenty of food alternatives that are as just as nutritious without introducing any possible risk. 

So do you have documentation to prove that it doesn't cause issues with a molt? 

See how that works?


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## 2oCHEVYo0 (Feb 17, 2011)

Chris_Skeleton said:


> Actually those were facts, not opinions
> 
> I'm curious how anyone even knows they come across mice in the wild. Do the arboreal species come across them? No. I'm sure many tarantulas in the wild NEVER cross paths with a mouse. Has it been documented? Honestly the "it happens in the wild" argument is an excuse to do it. *I don't think anyone feeds mice because it happens in the wild, but because mice are the available alternative.* Saying "it happens in the wild" is just a way to justify it. If pet stores sold "feeder geckos" and they were common such as mice, and no one used mice as feeders, then your argument would be exactly the same. In reality, it's the availability why people do it. Simply put.
> 
> I doubt tarantulas come across mice as much as people like to say they do.


How do you know they don't come across mice in the wild? Sounds like an opinion to me  And there's no actual evidence that you can provide that actually says that calcium is bad for a spider, so your argument is irrelevant... It is your opinion, and I have no problem with it. Don't feed me crap though about how I am wrong, when you have nothing to prove anything I've done is wrong...

And also, what you stated earlier about the whole, "If it's captive it's never been exposed to it so how could it possibly have a craving for it" or at least somewhere along those general lines... So you're saying if you were never exposed to other types of food and had no idea something existed, you'd be just fine? Well you might think so, but different types of food have different types of nutrients. If you were only exposed to say water, you might think you're okay, but good luck making it past a month. I'm not saying that it's a huge staple in there diet, I just said it's better for them to be exposed to different types of food, so you don't miss anything they might need.

That is my OPINION, deal with it... You can't change the way I think, unless you can give me some hard evidence to prove that I am wrong


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## Mez (Feb 17, 2011)

I dont see how there can be evidance to suggest mammals need to be incorporated into a Ts diet, because there is evidance that it dosnt. Wouldnt you count multiple generations of captive bred from wild origin Ts being fed an invert only diet, decent evidance that they dont require them to thrive?


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## Chris_Skeleton (Feb 17, 2011)

2oCHEVYo0 said:


> How do you know they don't come across mice in the wild? Sounds like an opinion to me  And there's no actual evidence that you can provide that actually says that calcium is bad for a spider, so your argument is irrelevant... It is your opinion, and I have no problem with it. Don't feed me crap though about how I am wrong, when you have nothing to prove anything I've done is wrong...
> 
> And also, what you stated earlier about the whole, "If it's captive it's never been exposed to it so how could it possibly have a craving for it" or at least somewhere along those general lines... So you're saying if you were never exposed to other types of food and had no idea something existed, you'd be just fine? Well you might think so, but different types of food have different types of nutrients. If you were only exposed to say water, you might think you're okay, but good luck making it past a month. I'm not saying that it's a huge staple in there diet, I just said it's better for them to be exposed to different types of food, so you don't miss anything they might need.
> 
> That is my OPINION, deal with it... You can't change the way I think, unless you can give me some hard evidence to prove that I am wrong



How do you they *do* come across mice? And that would be a fact, not an opinion, because it could be proven if they do or don't. I'm also not arguing the calcium thing because it has yet to be proven. 

I never once said you or anything you did was wrong. 

So if I don't feed my T mice they won't make it past a month? You can't prove that there is a single thing in mice that they need. However, I can tell you that there are plenty of people who don't feed mice and never have and their Ts are doing just fine. 

Well you haven't gave any "hard evidence" to prove you are right. 

 I'm not saying what you are doing is wrong, just that there is no need, and I'm not arguing the calcium side to it. Just pointing out that the "if it happens in the wild" argument is flawed.


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## Arachnethegreek (Feb 17, 2011)

To bring this thread back to heel, let's allow a difference in opinion. Some keepers feeding their t's mice, and other vertebrates, while it is theorized that it can lead to over calcification there is no concrete scientific proof, just as many of the t's listed here don't have recognized scientific names, only descibed species names. As a hopefully nuetral party here I say, if you want to feed vertebrates, go ahead, but do so in moderation. Give the t a mouse once in a blue moon that falls on the second Friday of a month. (aka very rarely lol) it's when you put your t at risk by giving it a prey item that can pose a threat to the t's health that your being an idiot, further, if you can humanely kill it then even better, no venom and fang death. IE. pinky mouse; pencil on the back of the neck and a quick solid rap. Neck broken and cord severed in less than a second. Now to the main topic. these videos exist because unfortunately the majority of human society has a morbid fascination with death and the death of other beings. For a media example use the fictional reference of the movie untracable. People and the persons responsible for these videos are sickening, but an unfortunate facet of human nature.


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## Vespula (Feb 17, 2011)

Some of the videos on Youtube really bother me. Mistreatment of any animal is wrong, and I think that the video makers should get bitten by a thousand OBT's.  That's my opinion on the matter.


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## ChileanRosehair (Feb 17, 2011)

Some videos on youtube are really sick. Like those videos where people put a scorpion and a tarantula in the same box and watch them fight 'till death for their own entertainment. And then there is alot of those videos where I think the ''animal rights hippies'' really overreacts. I'm mainly refering to the vids where somebody gives their T's live mice. People allways seem to come up with the argument that the calcium in mice can kill your T. That's probably true. I'm not an expert, but it seems to me that a mouse every once in a while (not very often) isn't so bad for your T. I mean, after all mice are part of many T's natural food list. 
And then there are some videos where morrons give prey that are way bigger than the T itself. I remember one vid in particular where someone gave a young G. rosea a mouse that was bigger than the spider and could potentially harm the T.

So in conclusion. There are some videos that really can be considered as animal abuse and ones where people are just overreacting.


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## Chris_Skeleton (Feb 17, 2011)

ChileanRosehair said:
			
		

> I mean, after all mice are part of many T's natural food list.


Oh boy :wall:


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## LV-426 (Feb 17, 2011)

the worse video i saw was a N chromatus around 3 in tackling a  fat mouse that was at least twice its size, freaking ridiculous


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## ChileanRosehair (Feb 17, 2011)

Chris_Skeleton said:


> Oh boy :wall:


What's that!? Are you caliming they aren't or what? How about let's say the T. blondi? Mice are certainly part of that species food chain. Along with many other little critters.


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## Chris_Skeleton (Feb 17, 2011)

ChileanRosehair said:


> What's that!? Are you caliming they aren't or what? How about let's say the T. blondi? Mice are certainly part of that species food chain. Along with many other little critters.


If you go back and read my other posts you'll see why I said that.


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## ChileanRosehair (Feb 17, 2011)

Chris_Skeleton said:


> If you go back and read my other posts you'll see why I said that.


Ok. I've read your earlier posts now and I respect your opinion, but there's a few things that bothered me. First of some of your ''facts'' are pure speculations. I'm thinking mostly about the claim you made that ''it hasn't been a written report on T.Blondi's eating eating mice''. Ok so there may not have been a written report on it, but come on. Whywouldn't it eat mice? It's not like a mouse have never ever crossed paths with a hungry Goliath in the wild. 

Secondly I like your comparison of a CB T with yourself as a captive human eating only vegetables for your whole life. Let's imagine I was in the same scenario. It'll be true that if I was only fed vegetables for the whole time I wouldn't crave bacon, hamburgers and beef and other such delicious food. But on the other hand if I was finally fed some meat I would be happy to finally have a change in my diet
Just my two cents...


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## Chris_Skeleton (Feb 17, 2011)

ChileanRosehair said:


> Ok. I've read your earlier posts now and I respect your opinion, but there's a few things that bothered me. First of some of your ''facts'' are pure speculations. I'm thinking mostly about the claim you made that ''it hasn't been a written report on T.Blondi's eating eating mice''. Ok so there may not have been a written report on it, but come on. Whywouldn't it eat mice? It's not like a mouse have never ever crossed paths with a hungry Goliath in the wild.
> 
> Secondly I like your comparison of a CB T with yourself as a captive human eating only vegetables for your whole life. Let's imagine I was in the same scenario. It'll be true that if I was only fed vegetables for the whole time I wouldn't crave bacon, hamburgers and beef and other such delicious food. But on the other hand if I was finally fed some meat I would be happy to finally have a change in my diet
> Just my two cents...


It's a "fact" because it can be proven right or wrong. An opinion would be "mice are the best type of feeders." That is pure opinion. Second, no one has even cared to speculate on the chances of a mouse crossing a T. They may be high, they may be low. 

I used the comparison because of someone else using that comparison. The only difference is, that we know these other food items exist. Also, we can't know if a T is "happy" to have a mouse. They're gonna eat whatever you put in there that moves. They eat when they have the chance. That's their instincts. And im sure they couldnt care less about their diet as long as they can eat. 

Also, I personally don't feed mice or ever will as I feel there is no need and no need to risk it <-(this part is my opinion). BUT if you feed your Ts mice that's fine, it's your T, nothing I can do will change that. But don't use the ridiculous excuse of "it happens in the wild."


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## Spidershane1 (Feb 18, 2011)

Well the real facts of the debate is that no one has yet to prove that T's NEED to eat mice, but no one has proved that they CANT eat vertebrates without getting wet molts. About the only fact here is that a mouse has the potential to injure your T while its being wrestled by the T. Thats a fact. A mouse can hurt a T while struggling, but if a pinkie or fuzzy is fed to an adult female LP, she is in no danger during the takedown.
I have fed many Ts pinkies or fuzzies over the years, and have never had a bad next molt. If someone online is gonna tell me what works and what doesn't, then there better be some facts to back it up or else I must rely on my own personal experiences. My experience(with T's, not on the keyboard) tells me that there is no harm to the T's from feeding mice. Then again, I've never fed more than one mouse per molt cycle, so I cannot attest to constant vertebrate feedings. It may kill your T, I don't know.


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## 2oCHEVYo0 (Feb 18, 2011)

It does happen in the wild... Think about it for more than a second. Spiders will eat ANYTHING they can overpower, this is known. In every area I can think of, there are rodents, lizards, frogs, and all sorts of other creatures that a tarantula would have no problem overpowering. Am I right or am I right? Mice are my choice because they are EVERYWHERE! It's a fact, see --> http://www.ehow.com/about_4609076_do-mice-nest.html


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## Slimdean (Feb 18, 2011)

*soldiers*

just comment on the main topic. i really haven't read most of the posts, but couple months ago I browsed through youtube and noticed alot of the US soldiers in "the sandbox", as they call it, pitting scorpions and camel spiders together and posting them. camel spiders scare the bejeebus outta me, but still not a worthy fate.


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## Axsisdnied (Feb 18, 2011)

*There are too many to count*

The number I'm refering to is those who have no respect for life.  So many people post those video's were they pin two animals to fight.  Very upsetting and disturbing that someone would go out of there way first to go purchase or aquire the animal and then take all the time to record and get the camera and then post to Youtube like some proud moment.  That doesn't say much about their character as a human being.  Someone doesn't like Spiders cool that's their business, I am not big on Dogs or Cats but I would never intentionally hurt one and if one needed my aid I would help.  I think people should prove they deserve to be the worthy of this planet and at the very least respect all life and remember next time your on a plane and see those tiny ant-like structures below, yeah that's us.


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## Chris_Skeleton (Feb 18, 2011)

2oCHEVYo0 said:


> It does happen in the wild...


:wall: That doesn't mean anything. That's just an excuse you use to do it. So what about Ts that eat other Ts in the wild?


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## 2oCHEVYo0 (Feb 18, 2011)

Yea, I'm sure I will feed some tarantulas to other ones of mine... Whether it be a failed mating attempt, someone escaping into another enclosure. It happens  lol Sad... But true. And not an excuse to do it by any means, none of my personal spiders have been fed anything with bones (as of yet). Just my brothers B. Smithi I bought for him 6 years ago. I fed it two frogs in this time frame, about half the size of my thumb. I should find that video and post it up on youtube  lol, oh wait that was a bad joke... :wall::barf:


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## Scorpendra (Feb 18, 2011)

2oCHEVYo0 said:


> It does happen in the wild... Think about it for more than a second. Spiders will eat ANYTHING they can overpower, this is known. In every area I can think of, there are rodents, lizards, frogs, and all sorts of other creatures that a tarantula would have no problem overpowering. Am I right or am I right? Mice are my choice because they are EVERYWHERE! It's a fact, see --> http://www.ehow.com/about_4609076_do-mice-nest.html


If I may reiterate:


Scorpendra said:


> Tarantulas feed opportunistically, they eat whatever they can get. But at the same time, they are not at the top of the food chain and countless ones die every day from things like predation and injury [from fighting things like mice]. That's why eggsacs contain so many offspring. Mimicking the natural environment to the point where your terrarium includes this part of their lives is missing the point of owning them as pets. If "It happens in the wild" is your argument, you might as well be encouraging fungal growth and parasites.


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## phily1579 (Feb 18, 2011)

Veryyy good Point Chris!!!


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## JamieC (Feb 19, 2011)

2oCHEVYo0 said:


> Yea, I'm sure I will feed some tarantulas to other ones of mine... Whether it be a failed mating attempt, someone escaping into another enclosure. It happens  lol Sad... But true. And not an excuse to do it by any means, none of my personal spiders have been fed anything with bones (as of yet). Just my brothers B. Smithi I bought for him 6 years ago. I fed it two frogs in this time frame, about half the size of my thumb. I should find that video and post it up on youtube  lol, oh wait that was a bad joke... :wall::barf:


The point Chris is trying to make is that Tarantula's eat all kinds of things in the wild. Mice, lizards, birds, other tarantulas, anything they can overpower. The list is endless. That doesn't mean that these food items are good for them. They feed when the opportunity presents itself. Food at times might be scarce which is why I believe tarantulas can survive for so long without eating.

No one can prove that mice are a bad choice of food, but why take the risk? Tarantulas have survived for years in captivity on crickets and roaches. *Not* feeding mice won't harm your tarantula, feeding mice *might* harm your tarantula. Worth the risk? :?

Jamie


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## Najakeeper (Feb 19, 2011)

Tarantulas may eat mice in the wild but they are perfectly fine eating invertebrate prey. In fact it is speculated that vertebrate prey may cause molt problems due to calcium overdose. So if someone feeds a live mouse to a T, it is because they want to witness the ordeal. Personally, I think making small animals suffer for no benefit whatsoever is purely sick. But that's just me...

In addition, tarantulas eat disease infested prey in the wild as well, probably much more than they eat mice. Do mouse feeders also feed their Ts knowingly nematode infested prey as well? It happens in the wild you know...


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## 2oCHEVYo0 (Feb 19, 2011)

Of course tarantulas are fed prey with nematods, mainly coming from crickets. And feeding vertabrates is not "Sick", it's actually the same as feeding crickets or roaches. And by the way, I've heard about MORE people having troubles with feeding crickets over mice/lizards and things of this nature. Since crickets do carry ALOT of diseases. All that I've heard about feeding spiders vertabrates is that 

A) It's speculated that calcium can cause issues molting. ONLY SPECULATED...

B) It's dangerous to put a vertabrate in with a tarantula. Make sure it's of proper size and actually watch it until it's all over... Don't just run off and do whatever. I've also heard of crickets killing tarantula's...

C) It's just plain disgusting... If you don't care for it THAT much, then yeah don't  do it. It doesn't really bother me, I've seen plenty of worse things than that. 

I'd have to say it's risky putting any prey item in with your T... Wether it be a mouse or a cricket and anything in between. But if you have a weak stomach, or think that for some reason is animal abuse, then DON'T DO IT!


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## Chris_Skeleton (Feb 19, 2011)

Yeah... I'm sure you've heard a lot of horror stories about feeding Ts crickets. Right... :wall: Well if that's so then stop feeding yours crickets and roaches and stick to your mice and lizards. I for one (and most others) have never had a problem with crickets. 

Well since your excuses are getting dumber and dumber, I'm out. 

Good day.


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## Scorpendra (Feb 19, 2011)

That was, by far, not my point.

None of us can stop you from doing whatever you like, so go ahead and load your Ts up with mice. Be sure to tell us when something goes awry, we need the data so we can stop relying on anecdotes.


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## Spidershane1 (Feb 19, 2011)

I've fed my T's fuzzy sized mice before, and never had any problems. I'm just saying....


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## 2oCHEVYo0 (Feb 20, 2011)

lol, you've not heard of people complaining about crickets killing tarantulas if left in the cage during a molt, or catching diseases from store bought crickets. You haven't heard any of that? hmmm, that pops up quite frequently around here to my understanding. And I don't intend on gutloading my tarantula's with mice, nor did I ever make that remark. Simply saying, there is NOTHING wrong with it. I think in the last few million years, a spider has probably adapted to the consumption of a little rodent every now and again. 

Happens in the wild yo  lol

Reactions: Like 1


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## Scorpendra (Feb 20, 2011)

Okay, I'll change the scenario since what I said before is clearly confusing to some people: Would you rear hawk wasps in your terrarium because spiders run into them in the wild?

The first _Avicularia_ discovered was found eating a hummingbird, but you don't see anyone using those as feeders. We don't introduce a herd of deer into our backyards so our dogs can pick off the sick and elderly. Lots of things happen in the wild...keeping animals as pets entails altering their environment so that it _isn't_ the wild.

But like I just said, No one can stop anyone when it comes to vertebrate feeding. Not even what the topic's about in the first place, so I don't know what I'm doing here anymore.


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## 2oCHEVYo0 (Feb 20, 2011)

Well what a good point. I think im gunna have to go and put some wasps in my enclosures. Glad you brought that up man


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## Najakeeper (Feb 20, 2011)

2oCHEVYo0 said:


> Well what a good point. I think im gunna have to go and put some wasps in my enclosures. Glad you brought that up man


As valid as your reasonable argument man(!)


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## Mez (Feb 20, 2011)

Najakeeper said:


> As valid as your reasonable argument man(!)


100% agree.


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## 2oCHEVYo0 (Feb 21, 2011)

Or why don't I just stick to the occasional mouse every once in a great while  

Man, you take everything too literally... Like a Taliban man and his Quran  lol, why would anybody put a wasp in an enclosure that's just dumb... Man, pretty soon you're gunna be saying, "So you gunna go get crocodile Dundee and put him in your enclosure, he's in the wild too!"

Mice, frogs, and lizards will suffice for me. 

But back to the topic, yea them people posting vids of Tarantula's vs. Whatever they can find... Completely innapropriate. I saw one where they put a tarantula into a blender and make spider shakes. Made me wanna cry


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## Spidershane1 (Feb 21, 2011)

2oCHEVYo0 said:


> But back to the topic, yea them people posting vids of Tarantula's vs. Whatever they can find... Completely innapropriate. I saw one where they put a tarantula into a blender and make spider shakes. Made me wanna cry


If I saw someone put a tarantula in a blender, I would punch them in the throat. That's not internet tough guy talk either- I would literally physically assault them.


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## Sky`Scorcher (Feb 21, 2011)

I see that this argument hasn't been laid to rest ever since I joined. They may be sick to you, but its their idea of fun and sadly, we can't do anything physically about it over the net.

My take on the matter is that they're both 'animals' it doesn't really matter if either dies or abused. Its because we are attached to our 8-legged companions so much that we seem to regard T's as a higher being than other animals. Same goes to other people that think 'cute and cuddly' animals deserve to live than our T's.

Don't get me the wrong way though. If you look through my posts when I was still 'active' you'll see a thread about me getting really pissed at guy who fed a rosie to his p.cavimanus. Financially, its just plain stupid. :?


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## singaporesling (Apr 1, 2013)

Will you guys stop whining and fighting about feeding Ts mice or not?  If its your T you can feed it a mouse or burn it to death with a lighter.  Don't expect someone else to raise their pets the same way you do.


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## koldaar (Apr 1, 2013)

This thread is 2 years old. They've stopped.

Reactions: Like 6


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## dydek (Apr 2, 2013)

Hehe in fact it is really old... btw Pikaia posted here on forum before about calcium and he said there is no proof what so over that is bad for T. Its just speculation. Its like if you drink milk everyday and then get cancer,  does it mean it was milk? Well his example was kind of like that.


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## spiderengineer (Apr 2, 2013)

dydek said:


> Its like if you drink milk everyday and then get cancer,  does it mean it was milk? Well his example was kind of like that.


you shouldn't drink water everyone who has drank has died

Reactions: Like 1


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## prairiepanda (Apr 2, 2013)

Sky`Scorcher said:


> Its because we are attached to our 8-legged companions so much that we seem to regard T's as a higher being than other animals.


I don't think anybody here considers Ts to be higher beings...unless you do? Their intelligence is mocked regularly on AB. The problem here isn't that people think Ts are higher beings and therefore shouldn't be abused, it's that many of us here have compassion for animals in general. I'm sure the reaction would be the same whether it was Ts, kittens, snakes, mice, gophers, whatever.


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## Redthirteen (Apr 6, 2013)

Just to play devil's advocate for a second, is feeding a mouse to a T more morally questionable than feeding it a cricket? Also is it wrong for a T to feed on a mouse in the wild? I would interested to hear opinions on this.

Kinda reminds me of a vegetarian girl I worked with who spoke about the rights of animals yet wore leather shoes


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## naychur (Apr 6, 2013)

demasoni521 said:


> I've even seen a video that "tested" an OBT's venom by putting a 3 inch specimen with a nearly full grown mouse.


I think I saw this video. Looked like the OBT was afraid of the mouse and was attacking it for other reasons than prey. My interpretation.

I saw a T documentary where tribes were collecting local Ts, frying them alive and selling them as snacks by the roadside. One of the tribes few sources of income, but they were pushing that T to probable extinction.

I saw another one where a "thrill seeker " ate a live T on a dare. Once he held the T with all 8 legs pinned together over its head like a handle, I had to shut it off. 

The documentary was sad, but it presented both sides. I understood, felt educated and moved on. I did not need to see the other 2 videos, but they are stuck in my head now.

I realize I personify my Ts just like my other pets because they ARE my pets. My feeders are my feeders. I keep crickets, breed dubia, rats and mice. I probably won't feed mice to my Ts just out of choice and because those are feeders for my snakes. I got into dubia as a better source of food/nutrition for my Ts and dragons.

I like to see the snakes and Ts strike, but I don't enjoy watching suffering. My snakes get F/T except for the few who will only eat live. I feel yoy should feed your animal so it will survive/thrive, not for public amusement (which, I believe, was the original topic).

BTW: In responding Irealize this thread is old, but the points and debates are still valid.  


Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2


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## jebbewocky (Apr 6, 2013)

Hope you're a vegetarian.  Cows are fluffy too.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## BaddestRuffest (Apr 6, 2013)

I recently while browsing youtube came across a bug wars video of a T.blondi vs a huge centipede , although I refuse to watch anything like that it just saddens me to think that t could have been 10-15 years old if not more judging my its size and it was killed just for somebodys sick amusement. I just report them for animal cruelty and leave it be. Sick


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