# I'm a daddy!!



## Anonymity82 (Sep 22, 2012)

Okay, so I woke up in a pretty crappy mood, seeing how I only got a few hours of sleep, but my mood has 180ed on me! I checked on my gravid female H. spinigerus and she's giving birth as I type!!!!!!! It's so awesome. She has a bundle of babies under her while there's around 8 on her back. 

Now what do I do?! Lol. So I know the mother will feed them after they finish up on whatever reserves they have right?

I do not plan on keeping the babies communally. At what point do I remove them from the enclosure? The second I see them come off the mother? Anyone have any idea how long that generally takes? I think they will molt once first and they usually come off the mother around 2i? 

I know how to feed them after they have their own cups. I'll use the FFFs and/or cricket pieces. I'll keep them on the damper side too. Other than that if anyone has a daddy tips please fill me in!

---------- Post added 09-22-2012 at 06:17 AM ----------

It's pretty funny. She was "stilting" like two days ago (she's been doing this for days prior too) so I put her under a 60W lamp (I checked on her constantly) and she soaked up a bunch of heat and finally popped today!


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## stingray (Sep 22, 2012)

Congrats and do post some pics when you can!


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## Anonymity82 (Sep 22, 2012)

THanks. Will do. I have a video too I'll post a link too. 

I'm reading up on babies but I'd still really appreciate any info some experienced scorpion parents may want to give . If possible. Should I spray under her hide everyday to keep the babies from dessicating? Should I just spray one corner? Should I not spray? I'm not worried about mites because I have the attack mites in there and they're roaming around. 

Okay, not a great photo. I didn't want to disturb her too much. Does anybody know if those babies that aren't on her are going to be okay? Is it normal for them to crawl on and off the mother? She's got a bunch underneath her and a bunch of them fell when turned around real fast. 

View attachment 108255


[YOUTUBE]4eUbo8USzhU[/YOUTUBE]

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## Anonymity82 (Sep 22, 2012)

Okay, there's been 2 serious questions that have been plaguing me for the past two hours. Everything I've read is that the substrate needs to be damp so I was able to dampen half of the enclosure's substrate and even sprayed a bit underneath the cork bark but the substrate right underneath the cork bark (which is lower than the rest of the substrate) is dry. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to dampen it properly without disturbing the mother (reading that is a huge no no). 

Also, a couple of babies aren't on the mother and they're moving around quite a bit. There's a few (as can be seen in the video) just hanging out in the substrate (I'm in the works of getting play sand, I knew it was going to take a few weeks but this was before I knew she was gravid!) while others are taking turns climbing on the underside of the cork bark. I'm thinking I should leave them be but just in case I should be doing something I thought I'd ask. Thanks for any help!


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## 2nscorpx (Sep 22, 2012)

Dampening half of the substrate will give the female a varying "micro-habitat", so you shouldn't need to mist anymore! Just maintain it. Trying to be too perfect or worried will become counter-productive.

The babies that have fallen off should be alright, as they will venture back to the mother if scared or in need of something. Alternatively, you can try to move them nearer to her or on her back, but, once again, don't worry too much or this will become detrimental very quickly.


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## Anonymity82 (Sep 22, 2012)

Thanks. I'm an overprotective parent! I want to leave her alone. I think I saw her eating one but I know this could mean anything. Thanks for your reply!


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## gromgrom (Sep 22, 2012)

Babies will eat microlats, baby crickets/cricket pieces, etc. They also grow incredibly slow, like most other local scorpions , and like Parabuthus, grow very steadily till the final 2-3 molts, where they jump in size.


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## Anonymity82 (Sep 22, 2012)

I'm not going to bother her at all for the rest of the night but I did just check in and it seems she has eaten at least two (last two times I checked today she had some part of a baby body sticking out of her mouth) and there's a few on the ground that aren't looking so hot. One's on its back just twitching and the other 3 or so are just kind of half buried in the substrate not making any attempt to get back to mommy. It's probably the same few since the beginning of the day and they're probably not healthy which is why she's eating them. I mean, she has to have at least 25+ all over her body that are holding on tightly and look completely fine. I guess they're just the weaklings of the litter. Poor guys...

---------- Post added 09-22-2012 at 07:05 PM ----------

I would try to move the babies back but she is obviously stressed so since most of the babies are on her I just want to leave her alone.


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## catfishrod69 (Sep 22, 2012)

Congrats bro!

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## Anonymity82 (Sep 22, 2012)

Thanks Jon! 

I think she may have been eating another one and that would make at least 3. The three times I looked in she's had one in her mouth. I'm hoping she's just cleaning up the weak ones that weren't able to stay on her. She's has at least 20 on her back and there's got to be more underneath her too. Maybe there's just too many for her to deal. Guess I'll find out after they climb off her back and I separate them. If she doesn't eat them all! God they are just so damn cool!


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## AzJohn (Sep 22, 2012)

2nscorpx said:


> Dampening half of the substrate will give the female a varying "micro-habitat", so you shouldn't need to mist anymore! Just maintain it. Trying to be too perfect or worried will become counter-productive.
> 
> The babies that have fallen off should be alright, as they will venture back to the mother if scared or in need of something. Alternatively, you can try to move them nearer to her or on her back, but, once again, don't worry too much or this will become detrimental very quickly.


This is good advice. It's easy to overthink things and stress out the mother. I lost a brood or two when I first started breeding because I was to worried about things and ended up flipping the cork two or three times a day.

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## Anonymity82 (Sep 23, 2012)

Yesterday, because I was so excited, I definitely bothered her a bit. I can see in without having to move anything so that's what I've been doing. She has no idea the flash light is on her or it just doesn't bother her. 

I checked today and I think my theory is correct (she was eating the babies that weren't on her back, there were at least 5-8 on the substrate). Maybe she kicked the babies off because I was stressing her or maybe she just had too many to deal with OR they were just weak and could stay on her back. They weren't doing much on the substrate. 

This morning I did my only check by lifting the bark and it lasted about 3 seconds, I swear! But she's still covered in babies, there aren't anymore on the ground and there aren't any in her mouth. 

Thanks for all the help guys! It's so hard not to bother the hell out of her. I'm just so excited she has babies! Two weeks ago I didn't even know she was gravid!


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## snippy (Sep 23, 2012)

njnolan1 said:


> So I know the mother will feed them after they finish up on whatever reserves they have right?


No, that's wrong! In instar 1 they are at all unable to feed on anything. They have to molt into second instar and then they become autarkic.



njnolan1 said:


> At what point do I remove them from the enclosure? The second I see them come off the mother? Anyone have any idea how long that generally takes? I think they will molt once first and they usually come off the mother around 2i?


Not around instar 2, but exactly in instar 2. If they come down before and do not go back or the mother lifts them back up, they will die. A few days after molting into second instar, the will leave the mother's back and sit on the substrate close to her and from there start to venture of more and more. When you see them running around in the enclosure, you can separate them!



njnolan1 said:


> Maybe she kicked the babies off because I was stressing her


Yes, I think you may be right on the spot here!

The topic is surely something for you to read up on and I find it a bit funny, that you did not do it before she littered. Why not prepare properly, when you know what awaits you??
Anyway: I have written a text on the topic, you might want to read it: Panarthropoda.de - Mating, prenatal development and birth

Regards
Finn


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## 2nscorpx (Sep 23, 2012)

Good read, Finn. Do you have an exact definition of autarkic? I'm guessing it means able to fend for itself (e.g. able to feed)?


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## snippy (Sep 23, 2012)

2nscorpx said:


> I'm guessing it means able to fend for itself?


Exactly: It's autonomic, independent and so on  (not limited to feeding though)

Regards
Finn


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## Anonymity82 (Sep 23, 2012)

snippy said:


> The topic is surely something for you to read up on and I find it a bit funny, that you did not do it before she littered. Why not prepare properly, when you know what awaits you??
> Anyway: I have written a text on the topic, you might want to read it: Panarthropoda.de - Mating, prenatal development and birth
> 
> Regards
> Finn


Thanks! That's great info and you better believe I'm going to read your text!

I did some reading up on it (prior to reading your post) but I just found out she's gravid like 8 or 9 days ago. I read up on some stuff but to be fair, I only started paying attention to breeding and baby stuff 8 days ago. I've pretty much skimmed this stuff in the past because I never though I'd be dealing with babies of any species. At least not anytime soon! 

I googled it a bunch but I kept finding generic stuff and not any answers to my questions specifically. I guess I didn't google correctly :/ haha. 

Thanks for your help! Today, I peaked in and there aren't any babies in her mouth or on the ground. Yea! Is it possible that the babies were just weak and couldn't stay on her? I'm fairly certain that the babies she ate were the ones that were on the ground but I guess she could have just picked them off of her too. Is it possible that she was just overwhelmed with the amount of babies and kicked them off and ate them? 

I have since ceased bothering her at all. I was just really, really excited... . I'm going to be such an overprotective parent.


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## snippy (Sep 23, 2012)

njnolan1 said:


> Is it possible that she was just overwhelmed with the amount of babies and kicked them off and ate them?


No, not really. There are litters much much bigger than yours (relative to the size of the mother) without any eating of the young. Stress or perhaps them being to weak is the more likely explanation.

Regards
Finn


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## Anonymity82 (Sep 23, 2012)

She ate another one... The babies' numbers are greatly diminished. She was fine for awhile. I saw one wander away about 5 inches or so, so I gently opened the top and scooted it back to her. She got spooked when the baby touched her and an hour late I see legs sticking out of her mouth... Well, at least I know she's well fed... 

I can't believe that even that slight of a disturbance would cause her to eat her baby.


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## catfishrod69 (Sep 23, 2012)

I dunno what to say. Either dont look at them at all for a couple weeks, or just rip em off her back and get them individually contained. You would think that she wouldnt be eating them all, but i dont have the experience in scorps to know.


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## Anonymity82 (Sep 23, 2012)

catfishrod69 said:


> I dunno what to say. Either dont look at them at all for a couple weeks, or just rip em off her back and get them individually contained. You would think that she wouldnt be eating them all, but i dont have the experience in scorps to know.


I read a thing about incubating them yourself but I don't know if I would be able to do that, but I don't know if that would be more detrimental to their health or not. Maybe if I just ignore her completely she'll stop eating them. She seemed fine (after the massacre of yesterday) until I intervened to scoot one back to her.  I'm considering on just giving up because it's really starting to bother me. I don't think she can tell when I use the flashlight or not. She doesn't act like it... 

I'm just getting really upset.


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## catfishrod69 (Sep 23, 2012)

I dunno man. Not sure if its you causing it, her babies being weak, or the female just being cannibalistic. If it were me, and i found any babies off her back, i would definitely try incubating them in a delicup with moist coco fiber. But thats just me. I dont see why they could survive on her back any different than on the ground.


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## Anonymity82 (Sep 23, 2012)

They need her back for some reason or another. The problem is, if I open her lid and bother her she's going to eat the other one's on her back too. She seems to eat a baby if there's the slightest disturbance whatsoever.


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## catfishrod69 (Sep 23, 2012)

I dunno, i guess your best bet is to completely forget about her for a couple weeks until you see babies that are molted and wandering around. Hope she dont end up eating them all.


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## Anonymity82 (Sep 23, 2012)

I'm going to step on her if she eats them all! JK. I hate this! 

Thanks though for the suggestions.


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## snippy (Sep 24, 2012)

njnolan1 said:


> They need her back for some reason or another.


It's for the regulation of transpiratory water loss! The larvae dry out extremely quickly otherwise!



catfishrod69 said:


> I dunno man. Not sure if its you causing it, her babies being weak, or the female just being cannibalistic.


Scorpion mothers are not just cannibalistic. That just does not happen!

Just leave her alone as people have said numerous times! There is always the chance that she picks up young that have wandered or fallen off. If not, tough luck! At least the rest will be fine. 
Just mist normally and apart from that leave her be and check in about a week to see if the young have molted into second instar properly.

Regards
Finn


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## Anonymity82 (Sep 24, 2012)

Thanks Finn. 

Maybe the flashlight is bothering her a bit. I don't know how I'm going to go a week without checking... but I have to. Wont the misting bother her? I guess if I do just a couple of squirts... Thanks for all your help!


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## snippy (Sep 24, 2012)

How often do you mist anyway? Once a week or at most twice should be plenty anyhow. So I don't see how that would be too stressful for her. Let's call it a necessary evil 

Regards
Finn


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## 2nscorpx (Sep 24, 2012)

It's hard because if she does eat the babies, you think that you could have prevented it, but really, checking on her is just going to make things worse. There's not too much of a point in worrying here if you can't do too much about it without compounding the problem. So, go easy on yourself!

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## Anonymity82 (Sep 24, 2012)

snippy said:


> How often do you mist anyway? Once a week or at most twice should be plenty anyhow. So I don't see how that would be too stressful for her. Let's call it a necessary evil
> 
> Regards
> Finn


Around once a week and now I have a bottle cap with a stone in it so the babies can climb out once they leave the mother. Half of the substrate is damp and I recently, before she gave birth, put in some predatory mite mixture because there were grain mites. Predatory mites are everywhere! I still have half the container left but I can't find anyone who wants it. I was going to sell it for 15 but at this point I'll take 5-10 for it. I just don't want them to go to waste. So for my other cages I'm keeping that substrate a bit damper than I normally would. I'm sure it's plenty damp in there and the mother is plenty hydrated from eating all those babies!

---------- Post added 09-24-2012 at 12:23 PM ----------




2nscorpx said:


> It's hard because if she does eat the babies, you think that you could have prevented it, but really, checking on her is just going to make things worse. There's not too much of a point in worrying here if you can't do too much about it without compounding the problem. So, go easy on yourself!


I know... Thanks! I took a really quick peek in (without lifting, moving, touching her enclosure at all). I have it angled so I can see right in with a quick click of the flash light. She's not eating anymore babies! There's still around 15 on her back. I'm going to leave her alone until around 8pm. I see a baby in her mouth I'm removing them and incubating them. If she's eating them without any disturbances are anything they're not safe on her lol. 
I don't want to do this though. It's going to be a pain. I'll probably get stung too! 

I know, it's like I'm sitting her imagining her chomping down on all her babies! So I WANT to keep making sure she's not but I'll leave her alone. 2 weeks ago I didn't even know she was gravid so at the very least I gained some experience. They're just so damn cute!

---------- Post added 09-24-2012 at 12:27 PM ----------

I did spray a bit more at first when I got the mites and then when she gave birth. I sprayed a bit underneath her hide and in hind sight I realize that must have really bothered her... I guess I got nervous about the babies drying out. I definitely learned a lot about scorpion rearing this past few days. Although I hope she doesn't eat anymore babies I'm definitely going to just leave the mother the hell alone if I ever have anymore!


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## Anonymity82 (Sep 25, 2012)

She's an absolutely terrible mother! I haven't bothered her at all! She was out on top of her hide with her babies today and I noticed there were 4 underneath the hide, may be dead or alive I have no idea, and there was a living one that wandered off. I would intervene if I wasn't so dang afraid she would start eating all her babies again. I guess all I can do is wait and hope it finds its way back or she gets it. I'll drop a couple pics in a few minutes.


Abandoned babies . I have no idea if these are new or not but I've been trying to count them on her back and it's around 13-15 since yesterday. These four might be the four that I saw down there originally when she first started eating them. 
View attachment 108360

She came out on her own! 
View attachment 108361

This is a living loner baby. I was thinking of trying to catch her and incubate her but the last time I tried to save them she started eating babies. I don't know what's going on here with her negligence and her hunger for baby flesh but I'm just going to leave her alone and hope she doesn't eat anymore babies and hopefully this one will make its way back over. 
View attachment 108362


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## 2nscorpx (Sep 25, 2012)

I do have to be honest and say that the mother's initial stress because you were hovering probably caused most of this. Think about it in nature: the mother would give birth and would carry the young on her back without constantly being worried about or checked on...yes, she may eat some of the babies but generally nothing in her behavior would change significantly even if she had a bunch of babies on her back except re-hydrating and being voracious in her eating habits.


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## Anonymity82 (Sep 25, 2012)

These pictures are fine. I didn't touch her enclosure, or make any vibrations. She didn't know I was there at all. At least she didn't act like it. But yes, that first day I probably stressed the hell out of her. Newbie's mistakes. I did lift the bark to look at her twice I think that first day. I moved the container a few times too. She went all day (the next day) without eating a baby from what I can tell until I tried to push a loner back in her direction. When the loner touched her leg she spun around real fast. An hour later, legs sticking out of her mouth. I really haven't had to move her enclosure or anything at all and she hasn't eaten a baby, at least not that I could tell since the legs were sticking out of her mouth. She still has around 13-15 on her back. 

I definitely over analyze things and worry too much. 

I wonder if it's possible that the babies will just crawl off of her back and she doesn't notice. I saw a couple on Sunday climbing off of her onto the cork bark. I wish I could just go in and save the loner babies...


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## Anonymity82 (Sep 26, 2012)

Not sure if anyone cares anymore, I wouldn't if I was you  but I have another update:

Apparently, she goes into an almost catatonic state when eating her own young. Good news for me because I was able to go in and rescue 5 babies that have been off her back for at least a couple of days. She's been eating her babies but I think she's only been eating those that have not stayed on her back. Why haven't they? No idea. I actually watched her find a loner and I payed attention in hopes that she would place it on her back. Instead she ate it. Just to be clear she was acting very casual about it. I caught her with the baby in her grips after dark so I flashed the flash light at her and she didn't respond. She maneuvered the baby in her mouth parts for a couple of minutes and then ate to her heart's content. 

I've been saying that I will remove them if she eats another one so I had to make a move. Fortunately, she made it very easy and didn't act disturbed while eating her loner young. I also decided to keep the babies on her back because she obviously isn't eating the ones that are still on her back. 

I counted between 13-15 yesterday morning and today I definitely counted 15 so that's good news that she's not eating them off of her back. Very happy about that. Let's see what tomorrow brings now that I have removed her snacks (loner baby scorpions). I may think about dropping in crushed cricket. We'll see. If she starts eating them off of her back I will have to use the paint brush method and try to remove the rest and incubate them all. I have the babies on moist substrate and I'm keeping them at my current room temp which is 75-77. They're active, wiggling around and really cute. Even if they don't make it at least I saved them from the horror of being eaten by their own mother right?

Please keep in mind that I was very careful not to disturb her and if she had acted agitated AT ALL I would have stopped immediately and given up on saving the babies. She realized something was going on so I would stop everything and wait for her to start "chewing" again. If she was that agitated, let's say agitated enough to eat more of her young, she probably would have dropped her food and panicked. She did not though. Yea! I'm hoping tomorrow doesn't bring 15 mysteriously missing babies! 

Wish me luck! 

View attachment 108391
View attachment 108392


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## 2nscorpx (Sep 26, 2012)

Hey, it's good to hear that she has fifteen on her back, that's not that bad. For the babies that are separated, I'd monitor them very closely. You should probably give her some food.

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## snippy (Sep 26, 2012)

And stress her out even more? I would not do that. Scorpion mothers usually don't eat their young, because they are hungry.
Especially considering the time spans they can go without food.

Regards
Finn


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## Anonymity82 (Sep 26, 2012)

If I give her a crushed cricket that shouldn't upset her right? It doesn't move or anything. Of course, she shouldn't be hungry after all those babies! It appears she hasn't eaten any this morning but I'm unable to get a good count. Still a bunch on her back. I must say, they look much more manageable now! They all have stopped moving around and have nearly become symmetrical in their grouping. They all have latched on pretty well, it appears, and have their rears pointed upward slightly. Maybe preparing for a molt?! 

Definitely agree that I probably caused the initial stress and her eating her babies. Of course, we'll never know for sure. She kept rejecting and then eating the babies that were not on her back. I watched a couple actually just wander off of her so she wasn't kicking them off, from what I've seen at least, but rejecting their return by EATING THEM. Evil mother! 

It's really surprising the state she was in while eating the baby. Definitely a different behavior than that of her eating a cricket. She has jumped, dropped and escaped view while eating a cricket. I was actually able to lift the cork bark up in the air and placed it outside the enclosure while she ate. She would stop at some point and investigate all the edges and then go back to eating!

Again, I would have stopped doing this if I felt she was agitated at all. She didn't act defensive in the least and would just investigate her new surroundings and then go back to eating. At one point I was fairly certain I was going to get stung. She walked up to my hand while I was moving the bark back in and just tapped at my fingers with her "hands." 

God I love these creatures!

---------- Post added 09-26-2012 at 11:45 AM ----------

Oh boy, I must have been wrong. She has removed two more and looks like she's gearing up to eat them. I'm going in... Wish them luck.

---------- Post added 09-26-2012 at 11:46 AM ----------

I still don't think it's because I stressed her last night. It's been 12 hours. She's just evil!


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## Anonymity82 (Sep 26, 2012)

Well... She's removed 3 more. One is dead but I saved the other two. In fact, I saved the rest of them. It was very easy and only took like 15 minutes. Not sure if I should put them all in the same cup or not but I wanted to give them some room after they molt so they don't start eating each other off the bat. 5 per 2oz cup and 4 cups gives me an even 20! 


The process went smoothly. 
View attachment 108400


View attachment 108401


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## 2nscorpx (Sep 26, 2012)

snippy said:


> And stress her out even more? I would not do that. Scorpion mothers usually don't eat their young, because they are hungry.
> Especially considering the time spans they can go without food.
> 
> Regards
> Finn


True. Thanks for the correction.
@njnolan, was there a pattern of organization of the babies on the back? This is something seen in several Vaejovis spp., but I cannot remember what it was called. Anyone?


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## Anonymity82 (Sep 27, 2012)

Kind of? I noticed there was almost a straight line down the middle of them but other than that not really. They didn't really stay on long enough to have a pattern. 

I wish I knew why she kept removing them... Initially there was stress but the stress stopped for days and she continued to remove them or at the very least not allow them to return. Then eat them. Still alive today! She hasn't moved since I removed them. It was definitely very stressful for her. She kept stinging the straw but I had to remove them. Especially after I started and stressed her out.


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## Anonymity82 (Sep 27, 2012)

One of the cups isn't looking so good. 2 of them seem a little sickly but one already died. I'm wondering if if this is the first batch I took out and they're just getting sickly because I'm not caring for them correctly OR I just over watered or something else. They're at 77-78 room temp. Thinking I might want to heat them up a bit. Not sure how though without sticking them under a light.


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## snippy (Sep 27, 2012)

Don't think for one minute, that getting young through the first instar (without the mother, that is) is anything like raising them through any of the later ones. It is not! It would not be a shame, nor would it be surprising, if most - if not all - of the separated young die.
The temperature is not the problem, but the humidity. And I don't think anybody is going to get you any helpful information on handraising the first instar young of this species, because most will not have tried. Just make sure they don't dry out, which is the main risk. Perhaps try keeping separat batches differently. At least then we might learn how to do it.

Regards
Finn


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## Anonymity82 (Sep 27, 2012)

I read a post from GS on another forum, I don't think I'm allowed to share where publicly, on how to raise them. I had them on very damp, not wet, coco fiber but decided to move them over to the damp tissue. He said it just has to be damp to the touch and not wet. So that's what I did. We'll see what happens. PM me if you want the link . 

When remoistening them should I not spray them directly? Not sure how to get the tissues damp without removing them all and respraying. It's been 5 1/2 days since their birth so I'm hoping they get ready to molt soon so I can have a final count and sell them. I'll probably keep at least one or two depending how many I have left... This has been a very stressing event! Next time I get "lucky" enough to have a gravid female all I'm doing is filling the water dish and spraying a small section once a week and then just ignoring her completely. What I should have done this time. If she eats them all, she eats them all haha


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## Anonymity82 (Oct 2, 2012)

This has been a huge shitty experience... Two more dead babies are dead and the mother was found dead this morning. 

The babies aren't drying out. I'm not sure how they would be. They're on damp tissues. Not soaking either so they shouldn
t be drowning. 

The mother was found this morning with her sting in her mouth. She was poised in a threat display with her stinger in her mouth parts. I thought maybe I caught her grooming but when she didn't move when I took a closer look I knew she was dead. Not sure why her sting was in her mouth. She wouldn't eat either after I took the babies away. I'm guessing that the stress was too much for her. 

I just over stressed her from the beginning. I should have just ignored her when I noticed she had babies and ignored her if she started eating them. Kept her on the bottom (I have a few mini kk stacked) and just left her alone.

Makes me just want to give up with scorpions...


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## snippy (Oct 2, 2012)

Well, that's how most people learn. At least next time you are likely to handle it differently.

Regards
Finn

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## Olsin (Oct 2, 2012)

njnolan1 said:


> I read a post from GS on another forum, I don't think I'm allowed to share where publicly, on how to raise them.


I think you'll find that's just one of GS's rules for his site...he posts enough of his links on this site....



njnolan1 said:


> Makes me just want to give up with scorpions...


Reading back through this thread i was hit by how many times others advised you to leave her alone as well as your own remarks saying the same thing.....You kept the disturbance up and you paid the ultimate price....It's of course impossible to be absolutely sure if continued stress was the major factor to her's and many og her babies deaths but had you left her totally alone and still experienced the same thing you could at least have been pretty sure that the fault was not yours.

Instead of giving up on scorpions why not turn this defeat to a hard learnt lesson. The next time you have a female pop with a brood you'll be better equipt to deal with it. You now realise the importance of keeping stress to an absolute minimum...especially around those key events like late instar moults and births......and lastly.... just because a scorpion gives no physical sign of being disturbed when you flash a light on it you can't take that to mean it hasn't been disturbed.....It would also be hard for an animal hundreds of times larger than you to discern your angst provoked facial expressions or your stomach knotting up or the rise of adrenalin through your veins...to that large animal you're just standing there doing nothing

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## Anonymity82 (Oct 2, 2012)

Thanks guys! Thanks for not giving me too much crap for stressing her out too much too! 

I feel awful about it. I'm a grown up and will get over it but yes, lesson learned. My new motto for rearing mothers is "ignore her completely" with the exception of watering weekly, amount depending on species of course and maybe tossing in a dead cricket. 

I guess I just felt confident with all the pictures I saw of mothers with their babies on back that I wasn't bothering her too much if other people could take all these pics and seemingly not bother theirs but I don't know all the variables either.

I'm not going to give up on scorpions but I don't think I'm going to be getting anymore anytime soon. I still have 5 other scorpions, 2 C. hentzi, 2. B. jacksoni, and one more little H. spinigerus and I'll just do my best to keep them alive. The H. spinigerus, both the mother and the tiny other one I have, seemed more susceptible to stress than the other species I have. 


Thanks again!

I did consistently bother her less but I agree now that the flash light may have been bothering her too without her showing any signs.

Does anybody know if H. spinigerus is more susceptible to stress? I think I may have read that somewhere but I don't remember where. It may have been a generalization about desert American desert species too. I don't remember. I'm not looking for a scapegoat! I take the full blame.


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## 2nscorpx (Oct 2, 2012)

njnolan1 said:


> Thanks for not giving me too much crap for stressing her out too much too!


Well, now that you mention it...

Be careful about giving the female dead prey items. If she doesn't eat it, remove it immediately, I'd say regardless of isopods.
Most pics of the scorpions with babies are lucky or done when she is out and undisturbed.
I have found that many U.S. native species are generally hardy, but early instars, especially of Vaejovis spp., seem vulnerable, particularly to humidity. I know that H. spinigerus is rather hardy, though. It's definitely a larger Vaejovid.


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## ShredderEmp (Oct 2, 2012)

Don't give up on scorpions, thats what i did with my crayfish after the parents died.   I sold the little ones to pet stores, and they probably ended up as food for a larger fish, and maybe even bait for fishing.  I regret this decision now, but its too late to turn back. I still want to be a marine biologist when I am older because of Una (her name) and her mate and babies.

That helped me convince my parents to let me get a scorp, instead of giving up after the first no.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Anonymity82 (Oct 2, 2012)

Thanks guys! 

I'm not going to give up completely. I'll keep the ones I have but I might take a break from the obsession of wanting more.


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## web eviction (Oct 2, 2012)

Trial and error man! Read up, be patient and you will get it right


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## Anonymity82 (Oct 3, 2012)

Thanks man.


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## 2nscorpx (Oct 3, 2012)

njnolan1 said:


> I'm not going to give up completely.


*Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down, never gonna run around, never gonna desert you!*

Anyway, didn't you say this was your first brood? If that went perfectly smoothly I'd wonder what was going wrong, if you can understand what I'm saying. You would be rather lucky. It is something quite different, of course, to read about something and then to experience it; it's true for keeping scorpions.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Anonymity82 (Oct 3, 2012)

Yeah, thanks. 

I didn't even know she gravid when I bought her a month ago. I just pieced it together later on and then she had them. There's a local guy where I can probably buy another gravid female for 5 or 10 bucks but I don't think I'm going to try again right now. He's got a serious colony going on so hopefully he'll still have some a few months down the road. Thanks again!


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## PrettyHate (Oct 3, 2012)

2nscorpx said:


> *Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down, never gonna run around, never gonna desert you!*


As if you just quoted Rick Astley! Would it be really lame if I admitted I was listening to this cd yesterday morning while getting ready for work?


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## Anonymity82 (Oct 3, 2012)

PrettyHate said:


> As if you just quoted Rick Astley! Would it be really lame if I admitted I was listening to this cd yesterday morning while getting ready for work?


This is absolutely terrible. It's one thing to not change the radio station but to own and actively listen to the cd? I'm very disappointed in you.


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## PrettyHate (Oct 3, 2012)

njnolan1 said:


> This is absolutely terrible. It's one thing to not change the radio station but to own and actively listen to the cd? I'm very disappointed in you.


I have an appreciation for all types of music, even the uber-lame pop from the late 1980's!


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## 2nscorpx (Oct 3, 2012)

PrettyHate said:


> Would it be really lame if I admitted I was listening to this cd yesterday morning while getting ready for work?


No! It's funny because it's so cheesy. We're so cultured.


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## PrettyHate (Oct 3, 2012)

2nscorpx said:


> No! It's funny because it's so cheesy. We're so cultured.


See njnolan1? Not only do I have a slappable booty, but I am cultured as well! 

PS- how are your babies?


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## 2nscorpx (Oct 3, 2012)

PrettyHate said:


> Not only do I have a slappable booty, but I am cultured as well!


I read that in The Watering Hole....?????????


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## Anonymity82 (Oct 3, 2012)

PrettyHate said:


> See njnolan1? Not only do I have a slappable booty, but I am cultured as well!
> 
> PS- how are your babies?


Not well... Thinking about trying it again. This local guy has some gravid females for ten bucks. Not sure if I'm quite ready this time. Of course this time I'll put her on the bottom of the stack and leave her the hell alone! Being that the original babies aren't even dead yet though and there's going to be a temperature drop I think I might just wait and see where I'm at next spring. Also, my fiance just told me not to because she can't take hearing me talk and worry about my scorpions anymore. 

I think I might spend that money on a C. gracilis instead.

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PrettyHate said:


> See njnolan1? I have a slappable booty


That reminds me. I need to go look at another thread for around 15 minutes or so.


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## 2nscorpx (Oct 3, 2012)

njnolan1 said:


> That reminds me. I need to go look at another thread for around 15 minutes or so.


*Sigh*...I guess I have to go find out what this is about. Losing my last bit of innocence.


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## Anonymity82 (Oct 3, 2012)

It's not my place to lead you to the promise land... or, I guess, promise thread. 

Maybe she will though lol.


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## 2nscorpx (Oct 3, 2012)

I'm just messing, not trying to be intrusive or perverted or anything else.


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## Anonymity82 (Oct 3, 2012)

2nscorpx said:


> I'm just messing, not trying to be intrusive or perverted or anything else.


Lol! Sure, sure. 

I keep telling her to post more but "you're creepy" yada yada lol!


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## PrettyHate (Oct 4, 2012)

Shame on me for even bringing it up.

BTW, I think the rat creatures might be back.


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## Anonymity82 (Oct 4, 2012)

PrettyHate said:


> Shame on me for even bringing it up.
> 
> BTW, I think the rat creatures might be back.


You bring it up as much as you like ! 

Nooo! Not the rat creatures. Might a suggest a new outfit for rat creature catching? I would go with something on the string bikini line if it were me. That would probably work better! Rat creatures really hate three things: String bikinis, self photos while wearing string bikinis and posting those photos to forums. It might be worth a try! Lol.

I jest, I jest. 

Good luck getting rid of them. Not sure how the hell they could get back after all your handy work etc... Now it's time to kill.


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## Anonymity82 (Oct 4, 2012)

Update: One baby is trying to molt right now! Awesome! Not sure if it's going to make it but I upped the humidity in all the cups.


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## Anonymity82 (Oct 4, 2012)

Not looking good. Three have started but all aren't progressing...


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## Anonymity82 (Oct 5, 2012)

This morning I have 3 confirmed 2i babies!!! So awesome! Another one is trying to molt. It takes them a lot longer than I thought it would take them. I think one is stuck too but I could be wrong.


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## 2nscorpx (Oct 5, 2012)

Great! I bet that's exciting...all you have to do now is be patient. You'll have to keep us informed. And lay off on PrettyHate.


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## Anonymity82 (Oct 5, 2012)

2nscorpx said:


> Great! I bet that's exciting...all you have to do now is be patient. You'll have to keep us informed. And lay off on PrettyHate.


She loves it! 

Thanks! Yeah, it's pretty cool. I was pretty much waiting for them all to turn brown to be positive that they're dead and dispose of them. They started some molting yesterday afternoon but as the hours went by and they didn't seem to progress I figured they were just going to get stuck. Apparently, they take hours and hours to molt when they're not on their mom's back. I have one that has a little skin still stuck to its telson. I know they don't really need the sting so if it loses it I can just give it prekilled and hope it eats it. Or tiny crickets. 

I still have a couple that appear to be stuck in molts and a few more that look like they're dead after molting but we'll see. At this point I would ecstatic with one loner survivor!


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## 2nscorpx (Oct 5, 2012)

njnolan1 said:


> She loves it!


Have you asked her? 

Good luck! Too bad it is so difficult, that you had to raise them separately; it's good to learn from, all the same.


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## Anonymity82 (Oct 5, 2012)

Hey, she brought it up this time. What does that tell ya?

A fourth molted! I'm so excited to not come out of this empty handed! I wouldn't say it makes it worth the stress but it's awesome to know that at least two of these guys are kicking arse and taking names. They're quick, hanging out on the dry side and looking for trouble! I have some FFFs. What a great 6 dollar investment if you have some true spiders and baby arachnids. I've had them for weeks and they're on their 3 generation. 

There is also two more molting and a couple that looked like they molted but haven't moved in many hours so they're probably dead. I'm not touching them until they turn brown (one head one has done this).

Oh, I'm not actually using the flies just yet. I'm going to give them a few days to harden up. I can't even tell if they have stings!


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## Anonymity82 (Oct 10, 2012)

So, I tried feeding the babies after about 5 days from their molting. I couldn't wait the full seven. They FREAKED out! I tossed in a FFF in two containers (one of the babies didn't make it and the other, although active, still looks a little under the weather). They followed the flies and then ran from the. Maybe I should just throw in some cricket parts in a couple of days. I'll give them until 9pm tonight and if they're not eaten I'll remove them.

Haha, one of them was having a faceoff with the fly. They were literally standing face to face not moving. The other one had one by the wing and wouldn't let go but apparently had no idea what else to do with it. I think they'll figure it out soon.


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## Anonymity82 (Oct 11, 2012)

They have not figured it out yet. Nobody ate the flies. I threw in some cricket parts and nobody is going for them either. I'll leave them until tomorrow. I tried to give them hides too but they're not sure what to do with those either lol. Guess I'll give it more time but it's been about a week now since they molted into 2i.


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