# Ornithoctoninae care and info



## Nightstalker47 (Jan 3, 2019)

*Relevant genera: *

_Phormingochilus_

_Lampropelma _

_Cyriopagopus_

_Ornithoctonus_

_Cytharognathus _

This thread will cover the care for all species and genera in the Ornithoctoninae subfamily. These spiders are commonly referred to as “Earth Tigers” due to their burrowing tendencies and striped patterns on the abdomen, being Asian tarantulas, their dispositions tend to be on the hyper defensive side.

The venom that they come equipped with is very serious; bites are extremely painful and can have long lasting effects…sometimes symptoms will persist weeks after a bite. On top of that, they are lightning fast, and tend to be on the skittish side…making them a terrible candidate for new keepers. Please avoid these if you are somewhat inexperienced, there’s no need to rush into advanced species and risk disaster.

*Care and husbandry:*

The difference between these spiders and most other Asian arboreals lies mainly with their burrowing tendencies, now some of the species in this subfamily are strictly fossorial, such as _Ornithoctonus aureotibialis_, _Cyriopagopus lividus_, _mina_x, _vonwirthi_, etc…and others are not(_Phormingochilus_, _Lampropelma_, _C.shioedtei_, _C.sp. Sumatran tiger_, _C. sp Hati hati_,etc…). If you have any questions on one species or genus in particular, feel free to ask.

These are a highly moisture dependent group of tarantulas, across the board. They should be kept on deep moist substrate, the top can be allowed to dry a little, but the deeper layers should always remain moist. Best way to maintain the correct parameters in the enclosure would be to periodically pour water directly in the sub, do so as you see fit, and be mindful not to overdo it. Too much moisture is just as bad as not enough. Now unbeknownst to most, good ventilation is of paramount importance to the good health of these spiders. Stuffy conditions will inevitably lead to a sick and dying specimen, so make sure your enclosures have good airflow…stagnant air is always a bigger concern in moist setups. There are many options as far as ventilating goes; cross vent has been my preference.

*Setup:*

Now this will depend entirely on which species you are working with, some will do fine in a classic fossorial setup while others should have more of an arboreal type enclosure. The housing of each species will vary. For arboreals, aim for the same basic enclosure you would have for any other tree spider, slanted cork bark to perch and hide one, as well as lots of extra sub depth for them to dig in. Many of these spiders will also web fairly heavily, typically prior to a molt.

*Growth rates:*

Very fast growers, some specimens may mature in less than two years. Temperatures in the range of 70-85 would be ideal. I would also recommend only heating during the day, and letting the night time temps dip…this mimics their natural environment and will stimulate more nocturnal behavior. If you want accelerated growth, feed often and generously. I don’t necessarily believe that constant higher temps equates to faster growth, there should be some fluctuation.

*Size:*

Lots of variation from species to species, with some of the smallest maxing out at around 5-6”, and the largest of the spectrum growing to the 8-9” range. If you’re looking for a more specific answer on an individual species, ask away. 

I think I covered all the important bits. If anyone else would like to shed some light on the topic, feel free to contribute to this thread. As usual, pictures of any members within the subfamily are more than welcome.

Reactions: Like 9 | Agree 1 | Informative 6 | Helpful 1 | Love 1 | Useful 1


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## Nightstalker47 (Jan 3, 2019)

_L. sp. Borneo Black_ - Immature male.





_L. sp. Borneo Black - _Mature female.





_L.violacepes_ - Immature male





_C.shioedtei_ - Immature female










_C. sp. Hati hati_ - Immature male





_C. sp. Hati hati_ - Immature female. 





_C. sp. Hati hati_ - Mature female





_Phormingochilus everetti_ - Immature female

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## boina (Jan 3, 2019)

I've quite a few of the more arboreal inclined of these spiders and I have been experimenting with keeping them somewhat dryer, as in half dry half moist, even letting them completely dry out for a short while, and they seem to be doing exceedingly well with that. But all except one of mine are fully adult and I live in a rather humid environment.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Informative 1


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## Nightstalker47 (Jan 3, 2019)

boina said:


> I've quite a few of the more arboreal inclined of these spiders and I have been experimenting with keeping them somewhat dryer, as in half dry half moist, even letting them completely dry out for a short while, and they seem to be doing exceedingly well with that. But all except one of mine are fully adult and I live in a rather humid environment.


I let things dry out more and more as they grow. The smaller ones can be a little less tolerant of dry conditions though.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Ungoliant (Jan 4, 2019)

I will be including this in the section on care guides.

Reactions: Like 2


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## arachnidgill (Jan 4, 2019)

Ungoliant said:


> I will be including this in the section on care guides.


There's a section for care guides?


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## The Grym Reaper (Jan 4, 2019)

Ornithoctonus aureotibialis - Juvenile female













Ornithoctonus aureotibialis



__ The Grym Reaper
__ Jan 3, 2019
__ 2
__
aureotibialis
haplopelma chrysothrix
ornithoctonus
ornithoctonus aureotibialis
thailand golden fringe tarantula
threat




						Using Witchfire's mile-wide angry streak in order to get a decent photo lol.
					




Lampropelma nigerrimum - Subadult female













0.1 Lampropelma nigerrimum



__ The Grym Reaper
__ Nov 27, 2018
__
female
lampropelma
lampropelma nigerrimum
nigerrimum
sangihe black tarantula




						I'm pretty sure this is one of the harbingers of the apocalypse but Aurora was out of her cork...
					




Lampropelma nigerrimum - Juvenile male

View media item 55301

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## Nightstalker47 (Jan 4, 2019)

Brian Gilbert said:


> There's a section for care guides?


Should be up soon, Ungoliant is working on it.

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## Venom1080 (Jan 7, 2019)

believe Phormingochilus pennelhewletti is about 3" for adults. 

should probably also add Lampropelma is the most frustrating genus ive ever kept. slings, juvies, even larger subadults will sometimes drop dead out of nowhere...

Reactions: Informative 1 | Wow 1


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## Nightstalker47 (Jan 7, 2019)

Venom1080 said:


> believe Phormingochilus pennelhewletti is about 3" for adults.


I had no idea this species even existed, just found the page on FB, thanks George.

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## chris0220 (Jan 7, 2019)

Big shout out to everyone who plays a part in building these threads. I’m sure they are time consuming but they are extremely helpful and convenient.

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## grayzone (Jan 22, 2019)

Realistically, if you can raise one asian you can raise them all.
Im curious which of them tend to be more "arboreally inclined" because 99% of my collection is asian and none of them are ever up or out...

Well maybe my adult akcaya female, but thats about it

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Nightstalker47 (Jan 22, 2019)

grayzone said:


> Realistically, if you can raise one asian you can raise them all.
> Im curious which of them tend to be more "arboreally inclined" because 99% of my collection is asian and none of them are ever up or out...
> 
> Well maybe my adult akcaya female, but thats about it


IME its been Lampropelma, Phormingochilus, and the Hati hati's that are almost always out nightly on their wood perches, although they do have extensive burrowing systems beneath them.


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## grayzone (Jan 22, 2019)

I have had a few everetti that id see legs, i have a huge adult sabah blue i NEVER see, my female rufus is occasionally visible, but as mentioned the only one Phormingochilus i see regularly is akcaya.

Lampropelmas all hide almost cosistantly, Cyriopagopus are invisible, i swear i keep expensive jars of dirt

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## Nightstalker47 (Jan 22, 2019)

grayzone said:


> I have had a few everetti that id see legs, i have a huge adult sabah blue i NEVER see, my female rufus is occasionally visible, but as mentioned the only one Phormingochilus i see regularly is akcaya.
> 
> Lampropelmas all hide almost cosistantly, Cyriopagopus are invisible, i swear i keep expensive jars of dirt


I guess I got lucky with mine then lol.

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## grayzone (Jan 22, 2019)

^ thats a 4.5"-5" female Ornithoctoninae sp Mindanao "central". She used to be a pet hole but now that shes getting larger shes coming out and exploring.

Weird enough, my female mindanao south rarely ever leaves her amazing burrow. Maybe the variants size differe ce


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## toshiiiiiiii (Jan 23, 2019)

grayzone said:


> ^ thats a 4.5"-5" female Ornithoctoninae sp Mindanao "central". She used to be a pet hole but now that shes getting larger shes coming out and exploring.
> 
> Weird enough, my female mindanao south rarely ever leaves her amazing burrow. Maybe the variants size differe ce


She's a very beautiful T! I'm so excited as I am getting 2 of this beautiful T tomorrow.  This care and info is very timely and helpful.

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## grayzone (Jan 23, 2019)

Congrats @toshiiiiiiii theyre an extremely rare species even in your country


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## Nightstalker47 (Jan 23, 2019)

grayzone said:


> Congrats @toshiiiiiiii theyre an extremely rare species even in your country


Do you have any pictures of your ackaya? Have a hard time finding any photos online.


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## grayzone (Jan 23, 2019)

@Nightstalker47  yeah heres a few

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## Nightstalker47 (Jan 23, 2019)

grayzone said:


> @Nightstalker47  yeah heres a few
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Very nice. Whats the size range for this species?


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## grayzone (Jan 24, 2019)

I wouldnt expect them to get the size of everetti or sabah, but definitely larger than rufus.

This female is currently at about 6" or a little more, and has been fully mature since last cycle.  males mature around 4.5" and are extremely fragile/short lived... like weeks after maturity.

Shes hopefully gravid this time, as she molted out on my last round

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## SPYD3R9 (Apr 5, 2019)

so, i've been searching about the differences of C. sp Hatihati VS C. sp Sumatran tigers, both from Indonesia, Hatihati from Sulawesi Island, SumatranTigers from Sumatra Island, its kinda confusing to differentiate between both, kinda like G.rosea VS G.porteri situation

anyone can help me out?
here's my juvenile sp.Hatihati


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## Nightstalker47 (Apr 6, 2019)

SPYD3R9 said:


> so, i've been searching about the differences of C. sp Hatihati VS C. sp Sumatran tigers, both from Indonesia, Hatihati from Sulawesi Island, SumatranTigers from Sumatra Island, its kinda confusing to differentiate between both, kinda like G.rosea VS G.porteri situation
> 
> anyone can help me out?
> here's my juvenile sp.Hatihati


Well, they do look pretty different, not too hard to distinguish just based off pictures IMO.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## weibkreux (Apr 14, 2019)

grayzone said:


> theyre an extremely rare species even in your country


The Central Mindanao sp is the rarest of the three (South, Oriental & Central), certainly on my wishlist but still unlucky to find one. 
I have three South Mindanao sp and all are shy and reclusive. Any small vibration is enough to make them run back their burrows.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Nightstalker47 (Apr 14, 2019)

More pics. 

_C.shioedtei_ - 5.5" female





_O. sp. Hati hati - _Post mating cannibalism





_P.everetti - _Juvie female

Reactions: Like 3


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## Placebo (Dec 22, 2019)

Hey having a hard time tracking down information on the P. Sp Rufus. I'm trying to find anything, name changes, etc. A part of me gave up and just settled with a general description of Phormingochilus. I would honestly like more information though, a better point in the right direction would be greatly appreciated.


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## The Grym Reaper (Dec 22, 2019)

Placebo said:


> Hey having a hard time tracking down information on the P. Sp Rufus. I'm trying to find anything, name changes, etc. A part of me gave up and just settled with a general description of Phormingochilus. I would honestly like more information though, a better point in the right direction would be greatly appreciated.


It's still Phormingochilus sp. "Rufus" for now, I recently acquired a sling and I keep it the same as any other Asian arboreal species.

View media item 65459


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## Placebo (Dec 22, 2019)

The Grym Reaper said:


> It's still Phormingochilus sp. "Rufus" for now, I recently acquired a sling and I keep it the same as any other Asian arboreal species.
> 
> View media item 65459


Yeah, I keep my P.Sp Rufus the same as my Pokies and my P. Cambridgei.
For the life of me I can't find actual information on them. I'm not looking for husbandry so much as I'm looking for taxonomy. Thank you Grim for the reply, I appreciate it.


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## The Grym Reaper (Dec 22, 2019)

Placebo said:


> I'm not looking for husbandry so much as I'm looking for taxonomy.


There won't be any as they're not a described species yet, P. sp. "Rufus" is just a pet trade name.


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## obie (Mar 8, 2020)

Are any sumatran tigers available in the us


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## docwade87 (Mar 11, 2020)

Anyone have any pics of O. Sp. malthai? Juvie and adult. Are they true fossorial or like to be arboreal. I have one I thought was c lividus but am being told it is O. Malthai. It did burrow and acted as fossorial for a while and now closed up its burrow and is always on top substrate. Need to rehouse it and want to make sure I do it right for the species it is. Thoughts?


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## Nightstalker47 (Apr 28, 2020)

docwade87 said:


> Anyone have any pics of O. Sp. malthai? Juvie and adult. Are they true fossorial or like to be arboreal. I have one I thought was c lividus but am being told it is O. Malthai. It did burrow and acted as fossorial for a while and now closed up its burrow and is always on top substrate. Need to rehouse it and want to make sure I do it right for the species it is. Thoughts?
> View attachment 336647


It looks like a small _C.lividus_ to me, how big is it?


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## MushManMike (Feb 19, 2021)

Glad I found this! Thanks for the info! And love the pics everyone

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## Arborealguy1990 (Aug 15, 2022)

How about Ornithoctininae Sp Phan Cay? Anyone keep them? I have a small 2 inch female grows like a weed, voracious appetite, any info is appreciated


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## arthurliuyz (Aug 15, 2022)

Arborealguy1990 said:


> How about Ornithoctininae Sp Phan Cay? Anyone keep them? I have a small 2 inch female grows like a weed, voracious appetite, any info is appreciated








						Ornithoctoninae sp. Phan Cay Care
					

I used the search function and literally NOTHING came up. Does anyone know how to take care of them?



					arachnoboards.com

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## Arborealguy1990 (Aug 15, 2022)

arthurliuyz said:


> Ornithoctoninae sp. Phan Cay Care
> 
> 
> I used the search function and literally NOTHING came up. Does anyone know how to take care of them?
> ...


Thnx man I saw that one, wa just curious if anyone else had any experience with them?


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## spiderpilot (Nov 7, 2022)

grayzone said:


> I have had a few everetti that id see legs, i have a huge adult sabah blue i NEVER see, my female rufus is occasionally visible, but as mentioned the only one Phormingochilus i see regularly is akcaya.
> 
> Lampropelmas all hide almost cosistantly, Cyriopagopus are invisible, i swear i keep expensive jars of dirt
> 
> ...


Just picked up a Ackaya and Im glad to hear this. She is a hot head though lol, but I finally got what I wanted.


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## pandaking (Nov 10, 2022)

I know that this is old, but does anyone keep Ornithoctoninae sp. Vietnam Silver and know whether they are more fossorial than arboreal? Thank you


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## The Grym Reaper (Nov 11, 2022)

pandaking said:


> I know that this is old, but does anyone keep Ornithoctoninae sp. Vietnam Silver and know whether they are more fossorial than arboreal? Thank you


I don't but just about every seller in the UK and the few EU ones I checked have them listed as fossorial.

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## curtisgiganteus (Nov 11, 2022)

docwade87 said:


> Anyone have any pics of O. Sp. malthai? Juvie and adult. Are they true fossorial or like to be arboreal. I have one I thought was c lividus but am being told it is O. Malthai. It did burrow and acted as fossorial for a while and now closed up its burrow and is always on top substrate. Need to rehouse it and want to make sure I do it right for the species it is. Thoughts?
> View attachment 336647


I had one several years back, one of the easiest ways to tell if it really is a Malthai is true O. malthai make trap doors at the mouth of their burrow.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## curtisgiganteus (Nov 11, 2022)

Does anyone know of true O. Sp. Maltai available in the US right now? I would kill for a few in my collection again.


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## HooahArmy (Nov 12, 2022)

pandaking said:


> I know that this is old, but does anyone keep Ornithoctoninae sp. Vietnam Silver and know whether they are more fossorial than arboreal? Thank you


I agree with the Grym Reaper, since my homegirl Chanthavong, has a few of these where she lives in Vietnam. They tend to be pet holes when given enough substrate for burrowing, however, when there isn't enough, they try to scoot what substrate they have around and build intricate web tunnels more like a GBB or other semi-terrestrial species.

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## arthurliuyz (Nov 12, 2022)

pandaking said:


> I know that this is old, but does anyone keep Ornithoctoninae sp. Vietnam Silver and know whether they are more fossorial than arboreal? Thank you


I have two slings - both of them are very fossorial as far as I can tell.












0.0.1 Ornithoctoniae sp. "Vietnam Silver"



__ arthurliuyz
__ Oct 21, 2022
__ 2
__
ornithoctoninae
sling
unsexed




						freebie
					
















0.0.1 Ornithoctoninae sp. "Vietnam Silver"



__ arthurliuyz
__ Aug 25, 2022
__
ornithoctoninae
silver

Reactions: Helpful 1


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## CrazyOrnithoctonineGuy (Nov 22, 2022)

Adding my own contribution (not the most ideal setup due to running out of sub during setup; this girl needs a rehouse anyways after her next molt, so I've already went and ordered extra bags of substrate)













Ornithoctoninae sp. "Haribon" (suspect female)



__ CrazyOrnithoctonineGuy
__ Nov 22, 2022
__ 2
__
ornithoctoninae




						My biggest T (rest are slings) and my most rarely seen T (discounting feet appearances). This is...
					




Got her as an 2" DLS juvie, grown to 3.5+" DLS in less than three months and with just two molts.


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## campj (Nov 26, 2022)

Any tricks to mating these in general?


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## l4nsky (Nov 27, 2022)

campj said:


> Any tricks to mating these in general?


Cohab and space IME. They're extremely nervous in disposition and I've found it's almost impossible to do supervised pairings (unless you want to be chasing multiple spiders around the room). If they get spooked, it'll be hours until they calm down and focus on each other instead of you. The males will also bolt like there's no tomorrow after a successful pairing. Here's a recorded Phormingochilus sp Sabah Blue pairing so you can see what I mean: https://arachnoboards.com/threads/interesting-behaviour.356201/post-3296468. If the male is just thrown into the female's enclosure to cohab and it's a small enclosure, there's a high chance of post mating cannibalism as the male can bounce back into the female in his attempt to flee.

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## campj (Nov 27, 2022)

l4nsky said:


> Cohab and space IME. They're extremely nervous in disposition and I've found it's almost impossible to do supervised pairings (unless you want to be chasing multiple spiders around the room). If they get spooked, it'll be hours until they calm down and focus on each other instead of you. The males will also bolt like there's no tomorrow after a successful pairing. Here's a recorded Phormingochilus sp Sabah Blue pairing so you can see what I mean: https://arachnoboards.com/threads/interesting-behaviour.356201/post-3296468. If the male is just thrown into the female's enclosure to cohab and it's a small enclosure, there's a high chance of post mating cannibalism as the male can bounce back into the female in his attempt to flee.


Really appreciate the info. Also, great thread you linked there.


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## l4nsky (Dec 2, 2022)

Cross-linking this thread due to relevance:
The Husbandry of Moisture Dependent Slings

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## curtisgiganteus (Dec 9, 2022)

I l


docwade87 said:


> Anyone have any pics of O. Sp. malthai? Juvie and adult. Are they true fossorial or like to be arboreal. I have one I thought was c lividus but am being told it is O. Malthai. It did burrow and acted as fossorial for a while and now closed up its burrow and is always on top substrate. Need to rehouse it and want to make sure I do it right for the species it is. Thoughts?
> View attachment 336647


I know this is a few years old however you should still have her. If this is O sp Maltai it will create a trapdoor at the top of her burrow. They are a fossorial species so keep them like any other terrestrial ornithoctoninae.

Juvi 3” female O sp. Malthai



You can see that the blue is very muted in O sp. Malthai even under flash. She was freshly molted when this pic was taken as well. Around 3”

Juvi 4” female C lividus




	

		
			
		

		
	
With C. lividus the blues are very distinct even without the flash as you can see in the last photo. The setae in the abdomen have a distinctly different pattern and base color as well not seen in C lividus.

EDIT: O sp Maltai is not nearly as much of a spastic ball of fang either. Lividus can be bipolar whereas Maltai tends to be, IME more even tempered. You know what your getting into with Asian species but they are more on the mild side.

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## CrazyOrnithoctonineGuy (Dec 16, 2022)

Two more images of my suspect female Ornithoctoninae sp. "Haribon".













Rare glimpse



__ CrazyOrnithoctonineGuy
__ Dec 16, 2022
__
ornithoctoninae




						This girl (?) has finally decided to show herself more in the past two days, combined with her...
					
















Rarely seen footsies



__ CrazyOrnithoctonineGuy
__ Dec 14, 2022
__
ornithoctoninae




						Not the first time I've seen this girl since the rehouse, but the first time it was possible to...


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## curtisgiganteus (Dec 16, 2022)

Send her to me?

Reactions: Funny 1


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