# HUGE black widow



## WeatherStar4000 (Jul 28, 2005)

I was cleaning out my bedroom closet and I saw a huge _<edit>_  black widow. It was shiny jet black with the round abdomen, and a white stripe on the top. It scurried behind a few boxes. I placed my pointer finger against the box where I saw it. Using the space it took up next to the box, this thing appeared to be almost to my knuckle leg to leg. It had long front legs but a big body, nearly nickel size or a little larger. 

Now I have seen numerous black widows in my time, but this by far is the most outrageously obonoxiously large freak of nature I have laid eyes on! I used half a can of bug spray in that closet. In the boxes, behind the boxes, and all over everything twice. I have also shut the door, and taped the bottom of the door so there is no way out. This seriously made my heart skip some beats and feeling queasy. 

Is it true that the larger a black widow, the more venom it can inject. Because it has more venom, someone could end up very sick from the bite? Is it also true that black widow venom is supposedly the strongest of any spider, but the effects are minimal to moderate because a fractional amount is injected compared to Atrax Robustus? 

An exagerration here, but if a black widow were baseball size with the same type of venom, would that large amount of venom finish someone off post haste? 

I'm sorry for the daunting questions, but this damn thing entirely freaked me out.


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## WeatherStar4000 (Jul 28, 2005)

Another question. What's the largest black widow you ever laid eyes on? I hope that someone has seen one larger than this one. Just so I know I am not the luckiest guy on earth for having a huge monster in my closet. I have 2 T's and they don't bug me at all, so why does a black widow that's not as big as them freak me out so much? Is it normal to be freaked out by true spiders but be perfectly fine with Ts?


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## Imegnixs_Cinder (Jul 28, 2005)

Sorry but I have no idea about black widows. However to answer your other question, yes its normal. I used to be terrified of house spiders and we don't even have any venomous ones over here. Yet I have never looked upon Tarantulas as being spiders so have never had the same fear of them. I think its the size of house spiders in comparrison that makes me fearfull, the small skittering thing across my floor was always more scary to me than the idea of a large colourfull thing in a tank.


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## ScorpDemon (Jul 28, 2005)

a word of advice.. you might want to untape the closet and make sure shes dead, and see for yourself that there isn't an eggsac.. you dont really want 200-300 of those little things running around in your closet.. 

about nickel size or a little bigger you say? i have 2 about that size or a little bigger in my living room.. they are awesome feeders.. yes they do inject a very small amount of venom.. not sure if the size of the spider is relative to the amount of venom.. someone could end up very sick from the bite, yes.. but when bothered their natural reaction is to run, then when cornered they will ball up.. they have to be really pissed to bite.. in my experience anyway.. yes, strongest venom of any spider would be correct, i think i remember reading that their venom is equilavent to that of a rattlesnake, but they inject VERY small amounts.. as far as the baseball sized widow goes.. not sure.. but if you see one that size.. get a bucket and put aver it and hold her until i can get there.. 
also.. most of your everyday bug sprays wont do anything for black widows unless you soak the spider itself.. the best thing i've found for spiders and scorpions.. and this was before i was interested in keeping either mind you.. but the best thing you can get is a spray called demon, or the generic version called viper.. the active ingredient is cypermethrin.. it will kill anything it comes in contact with.. but if you have T's use extreme caution.. if it drifts into their enclosures, or another bug crawls through it and into their enclosure before it kills said bug.. you can see where this is going right?


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## Anthony (Jul 28, 2005)

There are are two outside the house right now, it is the season.One is close to a nickle, the other about a penney in size.Their bite is harmful to people so they must be treated with respect. Good you are okay.


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## JPD (Jul 28, 2005)

Certainly nothing to be scared of.  As mentioned, they are quite timid and would much rather be left alone then to be faced with contact with humans.
Can you imagine, (if Widow spiders actually communicated on a forum such as this), what this Widow in your closet might have posted........."Largest _<edit>_  human I have ever seen!
Their venom is strong, however, at the size you described, probably no more than a typical amount would be injected if it were to bite.  Also important to note that the use of their venom is also relatvie to the situation in which the spider finds itself in.  A defensive bite or one in which it is protecting an eggsac would likely yield less venom then would a bite in which it was capturing a prey item.
I received a bite from an L.bishopi female who was guarding an eggsac and had no ill effects other than the localized pain from the bite.
The real stinker of the Widow species is the Brown Widow, L.geometricus.  Much stronger venom when compared to L.mactans, L.tredecimguttatus, etc.
But.....even less likely to bite.
I think that fear is relative to your understanding of the spider.  If you were to capture a few and study them over time, I would bet that your fear would quickly subside.
It's likely that there is more fear revolving around the Widow spiders due to the fact that they are so well recognized by even the "non spider people."
Stories of their bites and the effects.....it's the stuff of Urban Legends.
I once had a fairly decent collection of T's and after selling them off and deciding to return to the hobby, decided to stick exclusively with Widows.
Right now I am enjoying watching a recently hatched eggsac of L.tredecimguttatus "group feed" on all of the fruitflies that I have dumped in their enclosure.  They are truly fascinating creatures.
Also.......where are you located?  Just interested to know the species of Widow which lurks in your closet.


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## Stefan2209 (Jul 28, 2005)

Hi,

sorry to say, but thinking widows got the potentest venom of any spider is just plain wrong. 

Widows are definately toxic to man, but Phoneutria specs are much worse.

Even worse than Phoneutria are Atrax and Hadronyche specs.

Wouldn´t be surprised though if science came up with an arachnid that´s even more toxic than all afforementioned...

Greetings,

Stefan


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## arachnojunkie (Jul 28, 2005)

Ummm.  White Stripe on top?


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## edesign (Jul 28, 2005)

arachnojunkie said:
			
		

> Ummm.  White Stripe on top?


that caught my eye too...widows, as far as i know, don't have markings on the top of the abdomen.

as for largest black widow...i kept one for a few months last fall that i caught outside the laundry room of my apt complex.

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=33925&highlight=largest

the ruler in my pics is in cm...if it were to stretch the hind leg out it would be a bit over the 6cm mark (5cm = 2")


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## cacoseraph (Jul 28, 2005)

edesign said:
			
		

> that caught my eye too...widows, as far as i know, don't have markings on the top of the abdomen.


sshhh!

don't tell mine that!


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## edesign (Jul 28, 2005)

immature specimen?


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## JPD (Jul 28, 2005)

Aberrant markings are certainly possible.  A picture was posted a while back on ST of an adult female (likely L.hesperus), that had retained its juvenille coloration.  Not common though not impossible.
It is common to see a white stripe on S. grossa however, which, IMO, would be more likely to be found in an indoor closet.....and, they are the larger of the Steatoda species as well.


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## cacoseraph (Jul 29, 2005)

edesign said:
			
		

> immature specimen?


mature hesperus can keep stripes and dots, as can a variety of other more "exotic" widows.

for a time i worked at a place that was taken over by the stripey clan. all but the fattest had full hourglasses, the fat ones had the double triangles.


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## Python (Aug 6, 2005)

ScorpDemon said:
			
		

> i think i remember reading that their venom is equilavent to that of a rattlesnake




I think that actually the venom is around 15 times more potent than rattlesnake venom but with the small amount injected it's unlikely that death will occur.


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## Billdolfski (Aug 6, 2005)

> Stefan2209Widows are definately toxic to man, but Phoneutria specs are much worse.
> 
> Even worse than Phoneutria are Atrax and Hadronyche specs.


That's what i had thought, well... i thought Phoneutria had the most potent and injected the most amount of venom (i'm pretty sure they have the largest venom glands).  Anyways, i new the Atrax venom was pretty ruthless but can somebody (with more knowledge than me =P) come in here and rank the most venomous spiders?


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## Scylla (Aug 7, 2005)

Do any other spiders drop and roll like the widow?  I have a rather large dark spider with some mottled marks on the abdomen, which I just assumed was a house spider, or in this instance a garage spider.  She's webbed up right in the path of the exhaust when I start my car.  I've been careful about her, and feeding her, but now I wonder if she might be a widow.


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## cacoseraph (Aug 7, 2005)

Scylla said:
			
		

> Do any other spiders drop and roll like the widow?  I have a rather large dark spider with some mottled marks on the abdomen, which I just assumed was a house spider, or in this instance a garage spider.  She's webbed up right in the path of the exhaust when I start my car.  I've been careful about her, and feeding her, but now I wonder if she might be a widow.



yes, lots of web dwellers use this strategy to escape predation.  so much so that i almost always keep a hand beneath a spider, if i am trying to catch it out of it's web.


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## Spiderman937 (Apr 19, 2013)

I have been collecting Widow Spiders since 1992, the western L. hesperus from Cali to Texas, the southern L. mactans and northern L. variolus from Texas to Ohio, Some Brown widow L. geometricus in Hawaii, they are like common house spiders there. The largest Black widow I have ever seen is a female L. hesperus I collected just southwest of San Antonio Tx, had a body of 1/2 to 5/8 and legspan of somewhere between 2.25 and 2 & 3/8. Had white and red markings that faded. I named her "Big A$$". As far as the white stripe, some widow spiders retain some colors and markings from their youth into maturity. L. hesperus often retain some white outline. I currently have 6 young L. variolus including 3 male black widows. 1 male has a legspan of 1 and 3/4 inch and the other male about 1 and 7/8.

Before final molt:
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/gallery/showimage.php?i=31329&catid=member&imageuser=52017

After final molt:
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/gallery/showimage.php?i=31330&catid=member&imageuser=52017


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## Widowman10 (Apr 19, 2013)

darn! i was hoping this would be a resurrection of the famous widow thread where someone claimed they found a widow that was over 4" and had a golf-ball sized abdomen! oh well, maybe some day it'll pop up again...

that is a great looking, and very good-sized variolus male though. congrats.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Spiderman937 (Apr 19, 2013)

When I was 12 in Texas, I caught a female L. hesperus and showed it to a guy and his buddies, they worked at a barber shop and auto mechanic shop. One guy told me he was bitten in the foot by a black widow the size of his hand. Well in Texas, species of spiders I have seen get almost twice as large as normal. I have seen Phidippus audax with bodies well over an inch, Argiope Aurantia 1.5 inch bodies 3.5-4 inch legspan, and Lycosa lenta or Hogna rabida with 1.5 inch bodies and 3.5 - 4 inch legspans, males and females, whichever species is tan & has the stripes, and males have front legs that are black. Also at a museum I saw a preserved L. tredecimguttatus with a 3/4 inch body and almost 3 inch legspan. The carapace was between 1/4 and 5/8 inch. So anyway I have been looking for 'L. BigFooti' ever since. I would like to find a supplement or a way to delay maturity and promote or speed growth in some spiders. I am gonna guess that the guy left his shoes outside and in the morning when he put his shoe on probably got nailed by a pissed off Aphonopelma.


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## The Snark (Apr 19, 2013)

Let's get real, please. If anyone has found an extraordinary creature a photograph is in order. With spiders the animal should have a measurement gauge next to it or place it on a piece of graph paper when photographed. In science a picture isn't just worth a thousand words, it's the difference between fact and personal opinion.

PS Accuracy is important. Close only counts with horseshoes, hand grenades and hydrogen bombs.


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## Ciphor (Apr 19, 2013)

I remember that study done not too long ago that showed a measurable result in arachnophobes actually seeing a spider several times larger than it is.

The reason you don't see any pictures of black widows the size of a hand is because they only exist in stories.


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## Widowman10 (Apr 19, 2013)

yeah! i remember reading or hearing about that as well!


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## The Snark (Apr 20, 2013)

Another black widow oddity is they keep getting smaller. When I was a little kid they were huge! Now they be itty bitty cusses.

On a more serious note I once underwent a police training course in scene recollection. This was ran by psychologists. During the seminars they demonstrated how our brains record singular and continuous incidents. Our brain literally taking vague photographs. Then in recollection the subconscious fills in the gaps, adds or subtracts color and sound, puts things in that aren't there and removes things that are. Examples, 26 near identical trees became less than 10, a half hour difficult drive was actually 55 minutes, a brown house turned green due to surroundings and spatial/visual orientations and so on. And the more the intense the images taken, the more the brain tends to enhance them. Thus monster latro's.


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## Spiderman937 (Mar 26, 2019)

I know Brown Widows drop and roll the most out of any widows I have seen. Most of the others just flex and throw glue unless they are super spooked.


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## SonsofArachne (Mar 26, 2019)

Thread Resurrection -

Reactions: Lollipop 1


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