# October is Pit Bull awareness month



## HungryGhost (Oct 13, 2014)

I adopted a Pit from a shelter two years ago and she is the best dog I've ever owned.

http://www.examiner.com/article/the-history-behind-the-american-pit-bull

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## Eden Exotics (Oct 13, 2014)

A pit bull attacked my pug today, so I'm afraid I can't sympathize...


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## HungryGhost (Oct 13, 2014)

Sorry to hear about your pug being attacked. I also have a pug. Was the pit on a leash? Was the pug on a leash?


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## Spepper (Oct 13, 2014)

You have a nice-looking pitbull, HungryGhost.

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## freedumbdclxvi (Oct 13, 2014)

Pit bulls get an undeserved bad rap.

Yours is beautiful.

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## The Snark (Oct 14, 2014)

Pittbulls are no different than any other canine. Raised with compassion and respect they return it. Blame their bad rap on a-holes and how they raised them. Okay, leave Akitas and similar psycho munch beasts out of that. They still have the kill for food lupine traits. Those traits were bred out of the 'pitbull' blood lines a long time ago. The modern version, raised to be vicious by idiots usually suffering from shrinking testicles/ovaries syndrome, is completely different. A product of the environment.

That's a beautiful animal you have there.

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## Najakeeper (Oct 14, 2014)

The Snark said:


> Pittbulls are no different than any other canine. Raised with compassion and respect they return it. Blame their bad rap on a-holes and how they raised them. Okay, leave Akitas and similar psycho munch beasts out of that.
> 
> That's a beautiful animal you have there.


Totally agreed.

I was also attacked by two pitbulls 'cos they had a shitty owner. However, to my luck, I had my Kangal with me. So pitbulls advance, my girl steps in front of me and barks once. One pitbull returns, the other keeps coming. As it came close enough, my Kangal just stepped on it with her huge paws. Pitbull could not move, just looking up. If it made a move, it would have been eaten and I think it knew that very well. We stayed like that until the a**hole owner arrived and took away his dog.

For those who doesn't know what a Kangal is, here is me and my girl when she was 5 months old and I was way way too young  :







And here she is 6 months old next to my full grown husky:








And just to end on a note related to the subject, pitbulls are great dogs.

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## The Snark (Oct 14, 2014)

Kangal-Mastiff: FBDs.

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## HungryGhost (Oct 14, 2014)

@Najakeeper- That's quite a dog you have there, my pit would be belly up if they met. She's a chicken when it comes to big dogs  What I will never understand is why dog owners will let their dogs wander around off the leash, it's not a good idea for any breed.


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## Shrike (Oct 16, 2014)

Month?  Oh...I was hoping we would get to form a pit bull awareness mob.

Beautiful dog!

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## HungryGhost (Oct 16, 2014)

That would work too!


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## Akai (Oct 16, 2014)

I love the breed.  I used to have a female many many years ago but I gave her to a friend who had a large property.  Unless you own your own home it's hard finding apartments and houses that will let you keep them around here.   Is yours brindle colored through out?  Gorgeous dog.  It's sad but you find a lot of Pitts in shelters around here.


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## HungryGhost (Oct 16, 2014)

Akai said:


> I love the breed.  I used to have a female many many years ago but I gave her to a friend who had a large property.  Unless you own your own home it's hard finding apartments and houses that will let you keep them around here.   Is yours brindle colored through out?  Gorgeous dog.  It's sad but you find a lot of Pitts in shelters around here.


She is totally brindle with white toes and a small white patch on her chest. Let me tell you it isn't even easy owning one if you have your own house. My insurance company dropped my homeowners policy be cause of her. I had to find a new company.


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## Julia (Oct 16, 2014)

And in honor of Pit Bull Awareness Month, allow me to introduce Dizzy!  


Frogdog:



With Daddy and partner-in-crime, Sheeba aka Roo aka Horsebeast:



Doing her best Elvis impersonation:

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## jigalojey (Oct 16, 2014)

Cute dogs but I'm not a fan of them are they're illegal here.


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## pitbulllady (Oct 16, 2014)

jigalojey said:


> Cute dogs but I'm not a fan of them are they're illegal here.


Breed-Specific Legislation is one of the stupidest, cruelest, and most useless form of government intrusion there is.  NO place which has BSL has seen a reduction in dog bites or attacks, not one.  In fact, many have seen an INCREASE.  Look at Great Britain, for instance; serious dog attacks have increased by nearly 150% once they enacted the nationwide "Dangerous Dogs Act", even though countless innocent dogs have been taken from their owners and put to death simply because of how they looked.  The city of Denver, Colorado, has strict BSL in place and has slaughtered thousands of dogs based on their looks alone, a knee-jerk reaction to a single attack attributed to "pit bulls", and yet the rate of hospitalizations from severe dog attacks has increased by 15% in that city.  I bred real American Pit Bull Terriers for almost 30 years, and was around them long before that, and I've owned more real APBT's than most people will ever even see in their entire lifetimes, yet I was never bitten, never hurt, never threatened by one at all.  Now, if what the media and the politicians claim about these dogs is true, that they're inherently vicious and aggressive, then I should not have statistically survived past the age of 40, yet here I am.  Politicians need scapegoats, something to pin blame upon whenever something goes wrong, and they find the perfect scapegoat in animals like "pit bulls"(a term which encompasses ALL short-coated dogs between 20 and 200 pounds that have a rather blocky-shaped head and muscular build) and snakes.  It's easy to target animals, apparently, compared to targeting specific HUMAN behavior that leads to the animal hurting someone.

pitbulllady

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## jigalojey (Oct 16, 2014)

Meh I'm glad they're banned here, stops the problem for crap owners in the first place, you have to ask yourself do you really NEED a Pitbull?


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## Najakeeper (Oct 16, 2014)

jigalojey said:


> Meh I'm glad they're banned here, stops the problem for crap owners in the first place, you have to ask yourself do you really NEED a Pitbull?


What does that mean?

Do you really need a husky? A yellow lab? A golden retriever? They can all hurt people if their owners are ignorant a**holes. Pitbulls are no different.

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## jigalojey (Oct 16, 2014)

Lmao all breeds have crap owners, Pitbulls just seem to react to it far worse, I just think they're not a good breed for families and I would NEVER let one around my future kids, you know you're in denial about the breed when you write off every pitbull attack as 1.bad owners 2.Media conspiring against your breed and 3. having to smash your pitbull with training so it ends up as a normal dog, hilarious to me.


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## freedumbdclxvi (Oct 16, 2014)

jigalojey said:


> Meh I'm glad they're banned here, stops the problem for crap owners in the first place, you have to ask yourself do you really NEED a Pitbull?


Someone coule say the same about your Hadronyche.


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## jigalojey (Oct 16, 2014)

freedumbdclxvi said:


> Someone coule say the same about your Hadronyche.


 If it makes anything better I don't think our funnel webs should be owned PERIOD.


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## HungryGhost (Oct 16, 2014)

jigalojey said:


> Meh I'm glad they're banned here, stops the problem for crap owners in the first place, you have to ask yourself do you really NEED a Pitbull?


Who is to decide what somebody else really needs? That is a slippery slope. Do you really need a boat, a tarantula, a motorcycle, a fast car, cable TV, a smart phone.......?

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## jigalojey (Oct 16, 2014)

HungryGhost said:


> Who is to decide what somebody else really needs? That is a slippery slope. Do you really need a boat, a tarantula, a motorcycle, a fast car, cable TV, a smart phone.......?


 Fair call, I still think the breed has problems, more problem than other dogs.


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## freedumbdclxvi (Oct 16, 2014)

http://stubbydog.org/2012/05/pit-bulls-by-the-numbers/


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## jigalojey (Oct 16, 2014)

All that site said was this extremist anti-pitbull group may or may not have the numbers wrong because no one keeps track of the amount of dogs and pit bulls in the country? Not a very strong argument to be fair, but nevertheless I'm just happy they aren't over here, you Americans have a love/hate relationship with them and we will leave it at that.


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## freedumbdclxvi (Oct 16, 2014)

Pit bull related deaths average 18 a year.  You're telling me it's more logical to say the entire breed is horrible than to say there are about twenty subpar owners?

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jigalojey said:


> If it makes anything better I don't think our funnel webs should be owned PERIOD.


Don't you own some?


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## jigalojey (Oct 16, 2014)

Yes I do own them only because I'm allowed to but I don't think I should be in control of them, honestly 18 deaths a year thats actually worrying to me and that is deceptive as well, I bet the maulings are in the hundreds.


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## freedumbdclxvi (Oct 16, 2014)

Actually, I believe German Shepherds, one of my favorite breeds, top the bite list.  I don't see why the numbers are worrisome - if the breeds were as terrible as made out to be, as PBL said, the numbers should be astronomically higher.  Yet, that isn't the case.  

I have to ask again - what is the more logical conclusion?


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## jigalojey (Oct 16, 2014)

Poor German shepherds, well I dunno you tell me, over here in Aus we have zero deaths from Pitbulls, seems like an obvious answer to me, also why are the ghetto people drawn to Pit bulls like a magnet (serious question)?


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## HungryGhost (Oct 16, 2014)

jigalojey said:


> Poor German shepherds, well I dunno you tell me, over here in Aus we have zero deaths from Pitbulls, seems like an obvious answer to me, also why are the ghetto people drawn to Pit bulls like a magnet (serious question)?


It's all about being cool and macho. Bunch of idiots.

---------- Post added 10-16-2014 at 06:37 PM ----------

Here's my killer monster from hell after she licked cat food off of this kittens face. The horror!

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## The Snark (Oct 16, 2014)

*Okay, enough. 

This thread is about Pitbull Awareness. Extolling the virtues and foibles of a certain breed of dog. This is partly motivated because this animal has been given a bad reputation. This reputation stems from the FACT they are powerful willful animals. As with any powerful willful animal they need proper training and treatment. By nature, with the exception of inbreeding, the pitbull is no different than any other breed temperament wise.

To give an analogy, I have had to cope with several horses that were sour. They were raised, trained and kept in an environment that turned them into vicious unpredictable animals. It was an ownership problem, not the animals fault. At one time they tried to ban mustangs for the same reason they have banned pitbulls but fortunately saner more sensible minds prevailed and it was clearly established it was ownership, not the breed.

We have had a professional dog breeder weigh in on this thread to verify this racial profiling is ineffective. Searching the web proves this to be the case.

This thread is basically an effort to raise peoples awareness of this breed. I ask everyone posting here to please attempt to confine your comments within the expressed purpose of this thread. 

This forum is up to it's eyeballs in animal lovers. Negativity towards an animal here, expressed repeatedly, is easily considered trolling. Deliberate antagonism. Please do not give the moderators reason to censor postings, give warnings, or even lock the thread. *

---------- Post added 10-17-2014 at 05:50 AM ----------

As an aside, I resent not being able to be my usual anal snarky self and have had to assume the role of 'dutch uncle' here. Please reread your posts carefully and refrain from making comments that show a lack of respect of others, or their animals.

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## The Snark (Oct 16, 2014)

Speaking from somewhat limited experience here. I've had close contact with maybe 15 'pitbulls'. 
In general, they are the terrible twos of the dog world. They aren't stupid, but often not the brightest bulbs in the light factory. They seem to live to test everything around them, especially the owners, just like a 2 year old kid. They love to see what they can get away with and coupled to an extraordinary amount of energy and a very playful nature, they are canine bombs waiting to go off. To paraphrase Steinbeck, the dog equivalent of Hazel. The mind of a child grafted to the body of a bull.

That isn't saying they can't be trained. But the training is along the lines of training a doberman. The usual sit, stay, roll over, bark of the average mongrel doesn't work. Doesn't even get close. As the dobie it is an intensive school and therapy course, both for the animal and the owner. It takes months working together to establish and maintain the boundaries. A week or two of an obedience course is not going to penetrate that thick skull and stay there. You have to get past the rollicking bouncing exuberance, not once, but before every single training session. That is not a dog for the average casual owner with little time to give it the attention it needs.

Your pitbull anecdote. This came from several fellow law enforcement officers. The call came in over county wide, 'Pitbull in daycare center'. Probably a third of the on duty's responded code three. Local PD, SO, a mutual aid and the CHP all jumped on it. Even the local FD sent in a unit.
The dog saw a kid being led into the day care. It seized the opportunity and blasted the door of the car open and charged into the place. The owner, or rather the wife of the owner who had opened the car door was your complete mouth breathing air head blonde. She spent the entire scenario standing next to her car in complete freak out mode. 
Enter the dog. Room full of kids. First, knock them all over. Then the ones that tried to get up got romped on and slobber licked. The more the kids freaked, the more excited the dog became. She had never realized there could be so many toys in one place. She became a whirlwind of romp and lick. She grew so excited she started to leak. One person working the day care grabbed the dog and lifted her into the air. In her words, 'I nearly drowned', hugging the dog to her where it could really get some serious licking in. She let go of the dog and it tried to climb her, nearly ripping her blouse off with it's paws. Everyone else who intervened got the climb treatment. The responding LEOs also got climbed and mercilessly romped. A lot of buttons were torn off clothing and uniforms. The only thing the LEOs could do was put themselves between the dog and the children. The dog went into a frenzy, spinning in circles and spraying everyone in the room with pee.

A FD in a turnout finally bear hugged the dog and with the aid of officers, manhandle carried it outside. Animal control showed and a catchpole later arrested it.

Judge Maguire had a fun sense of humor. He once sentenced himself to AA and a CPR course for a DUI. The animal's owners were brought in and the judge at one moment was standing up and bellowing at them. An animal control officer, the one who made the catch, said her peace and made an offer. The owners and the judge accepted it. The owners were ordered to pay the AC officer, who was also a professional dog trainer, for as long as it took to get the animal properly trained and under control.

A few months later the day care center has Molly days. Molly dives out of the car and hurls herself against the day care door. Once she is inside she drops onto her tummy and crawls while the kids pile all over her. She is permitted to sit up and say hellos but the kids are warned they will get a tongue bath.

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## Cavedweller (Oct 16, 2014)

jigalojey said:


> Yes I do own them only because I'm allowed to but I don't think I should be in control of them, honestly 18 deaths a year thats actually worrying to me and that is deceptive as well, I bet the maulings are in the hundreds.


Wait, I'm confused. Why do you keep something you don't think you should be allowed to? 

That's an excellent photo, HG. Man, brindle is one of my favorite markings. 

Has there been a study on why BSL leads to an increase in dog attacks? My personal theory is that giving particular kinds of dogs a dangerous badguy image increases their appeal to the type of people who would abuse a dog in order to make it vicious. 

At the previous apartment complex I lived in, about half the dogs there were banned breeds. It was pretty funny. One of my dog's friends was a dogfight breeder rescue pitbull who was a "jack russel terrier" on paper. Her new owner came from a family of pit breeders and she was one of the best behaved dogs I've ever met.

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## The Snark (Oct 17, 2014)

Cavedweller said:


> Has there been a study on why BSL leads to an increase in dog attacks? My personal theory is that giving particular kinds of dogs a dangerous badguy image increases their appeal to the type of people who would abuse a dog in order to make it vicious.


I read about that in my web surfing this AM. Somewhere out there. The problem owners ignore the laws. The breeders cash in on the illegal pitbull trade. So the majority of trained and well behaved animals are removed from society and the gap gets filled with the a-holes.



jigalojey said:


> Yes I do own them only because I'm allowed to but I don't think I should be in control of them, honestly 18 deaths a year thats actually worrying to me and that is deceptive as well, I bet the maulings are in the hundreds.


Horses cause around 45 deaths a year and many thousands of injuries in the US. Dogs will respond to situations with snaps and slashing, horses bolt. Personally, I'd much prefer to face down a vicious dog than a furious sour horse. When they start aiming those hind hooves your doo doo be very deep.


In the case of Molly mentioned above, I don't think she was unusual or exceptional. All young dogs love to romp with children. Molly had been raised in a very loving household but without any training, obedience or otherwise. She absolutely adored kids and her brain would shut off when she was around them. The trainer didn't attempt to get Molly to avoid or respect children. It was far easier to simply train her to go down on her tummy around small kids. Simple and sensible. Since Molly hadn't been given any of the abuse be vicious crap, a few months of education in how to act civil and sociable and she turned into your average well behaved animal. 
Now if it had been the average old world akita in her place, instincts could have kicked in, the adults would have been chased out, and it would have gone into protection mode, ready to face down anyone who might pose a threat to his/her brood. Adults that pose a perceived threat to children are in much worse danger than the threat of a badly trained pitbull. Other sub species of canines will act in a similar manner. That's real genetics, not products of an environment.

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## cold blood (Oct 17, 2014)

In the right hands they are simply a splendid dog, loving, loyal, athletic and generally pretty healthy and pretty nice looking.   They are not a beginner type breed though as they can be stubborn, especially as youngsters in training, and unfortunately a lot of new dog owners jump on this breed (cheap and readily available)and quickly get in over their heads.  They require strong dog owners IME.

I used to train dogs, I walk dogs for a friend's business and have been around a lot of dogs in my life, and some of the sweetest, most endearing dogs I have been around have been pitbulls.   My Doberman and each of my last two boxers all had/have pitbull "friends" they romp with on a regular basis without concern.  

When I had my dobie, I had a friend move in with me with a young pit that I helped raise, and even as an experienced trainer I will admit it was a tougher than average train, but goddam that dog turned out to be one spectacular dog in the end, she lived to over 15 healthy years.  Just lost her this past spring as well as their other pit, which btw was the absolute sweetest dog I have been around.  Always laying across my lap smiling....I miss those dogs like crazy and they weren't even mine!!

Because my boxer is white, she is mistaken for a pit at least twice a day.


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## The Snark (Oct 17, 2014)

*Question*

The contention among some is pitbulls are inherently a dangerous antisocial breed and should be banned. A given.

Now consider. Some of the more primitive animals operate on a very base level. They are, as a rule, the most dangerous animals, relative to their prey or enemies.  Their attacks would be considered deliberate, belligerent, aimed to kill or main, instinctive that resembles malice aforethought. As examples, cobras, spitting spiders, wolves hunting mice, coyotes hunting rodents and lizards, the big cats. They aim and premeditate a kill with a single deadly strike. This is not a melee assault like a dog fight, mindlessly getting in bites purely by luck coupled with force and agility.

Therefore, if the pitbull is inherently a deadly animal and not a product of an environment, it would logically have recorded instances of a deadly strike. A canine deadly strike is pause, gather, aim, and pounce/bite. Examples: my akita killing other dogs. No snarling, no random bites and slashes, one bite and shake to death or hold it down until it dies. Wolves and mice: pause, aim, leap bite gulp. Wolves taking down a deer is hypnotizing and terrifying. One after another takes a deadly strike and slash, but in complete silence as a rule. The same with coyotes.

So can anyone give us instances of the premeditated instinctive one shot assault from a pitbull or is it's usual modus operandi the usual pack type animal, random biting and slashing along with a ship load of snarling which is normal in virtually all long time domesticated dog breeds?

One aspect to take into consideration. The deadly strike is, as a rule, silent. No snarling, growling or any other noise. It's not a fight scenario but kill for protection or much more often, food. Coyotes ranging are accompanied by a continuous litany of yips and yowls. When they stop to hunt the entire pack goes silent. Even fighting among themselves or with domestic dogs they are silent. Compare to a big cat defending it's young. You're going to see a lot of white teeth and hear some unholy howling screeching screaming vocalizing.


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## HungryGhost (Oct 17, 2014)

@The Snark - you are 100% correct about the training. A week or two in an obedience class is a joke. I agree also with the fact that they are not the brightest bulbs on the tree, labs and sheps are tops in that category IMHO. The are incredible "sensitive" if I may use that word. They are very quick to pick up on your tone of voice wether or not you approve of their behavior. 

Here are two tips I always give potential pit owners:

1- ALWAYS keep your dog leashed if you are not indoors or in a fenced yard. Pits have a bad enough rap as it is and there is no need to give the media more fodder. Personally I think all dogs should be leashed at all times. Pits can be dog aggressive and that's where most people are going to get into trouble, two unleashed dogs going at it.    

2- Never allow them to think they are in charge. For example I never play tug-of-war with my dog, she will win every time. I only engage in activities where I am the winner.


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## pitbulllady (Oct 17, 2014)

jigalojey said:


> Lmao all breeds have crap owners, Pitbulls just seem to react to it far worse, I just think they're not a good breed for families and I would NEVER let one around my future kids, you know you're in denial about the breed when you write off every pitbull attack as 1.bad owners 2.Media conspiring against your breed and 3. having to smash your pitbull with training so it ends up as a normal dog, hilarious to me.


Trolling much, jigalojey?  You obviously don't know squat about American Pit Bull Terriers other than what the media-who thrive on "if it bleeds, it leads" mentality-tell you.  You're a Kool-Aid drinker, who will fall for whatever the news media wants you to believe.  You're probably also not a day over 30, if that, so you aren't old enough to remember first hand when other breeds suffered that same image, due to attracting "crap owners".  I am.  And I have NEVER had to "smash my pit bulls(yes, it's TWO words) with training so it ends up as a normal dog", and don't care if you find that hilarious or not.  I have something YOU don't: first-hand, hands-on, LONG-TIME experience with the breed, not what some news story has told me about it.  And that question, "who needs a ______(fill in animal of choice)", is probably the stupidest question anyone can ask.  What animals do YOU own, jey?  Do you NEED them?  I can guarantee that there are many people who ask that same question of YOU.  

pitbulllady

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## The Snark (Oct 18, 2014)

pitbulllady said:


> Trolling much, jigalojey?  You obviously don't know squat about American Pit Bull Terriers other than what the media-who thrive on "if it bleeds, it leads" mentality-tell you.  You're a Kool-Aid drinker, who will fall for whatever the news media wants you to believe.  You're probably also not a day over 30, if that, so you aren't old enough to remember first hand when other breeds suffered that same image, due to attracting "crap owners".  I am.  And I have NEVER had to "smash my pit bulls(yes, it's TWO words) with training so it ends up as a normal dog", and don't care if you find that hilarious or not.  I have something YOU don't: first-hand, hands-on, LONG-TIME experience with the breed, not what some news story has told me about it.  And that question, "who needs a ______(fill in animal of choice)", is probably the stupidest question anyone can ask.  What animals do YOU own, jey?  Do you NEED them?  I can guarantee that there are many people who ask that same question of YOU.
> 
> pitbulllady


I'm trying to remember. The Alsatian was one. Got a super bad rap in the 1950's I thinks. The malamute the other? Didn't Rottys get a bad rap, and Dobies. Seems like every generation has to have a giant testicles demonstration and a new mascot.

No, the word is pitbull. An odd animal that can kill elephants if half the BS of their owners is to believed. The others are known by the euphemism pit bulls but are bull terriers. American Pit Bull Terrier, Staffordshire Bull Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier, Bull Terrier etc are the animals with direct lineage to the Engrish or Flench bulldog and a terrier.

The word 'pit' is a black mark on the face of animal husbandry and keeping and a rude insult to people who truly love and respect animals.

One thing that really pisses me off is the treatment of the English bulldog. From my experience, the most jovial, fun loving cheerful breed out there. As puppies, they are next to impossible. 10 times more strength than brains and DEMAND cuddling and romping. Then their inherent problem kicks in. MUCH too overbuilt to have good personal hygiene, chronic halitosis, friendly hellos that commonly knock people over and end up consigned to a lonely life behind a heavy chain link fence in the back yards of the world.


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## jigalojey (Oct 18, 2014)

pitbulllady said:


> Trolling much, jigalojey?  You obviously don't know squat about American Pit Bull Terriers other than what the media-who thrive on "if it bleeds, it leads" mentality-tell you.  You're a Kool-Aid drinker, who will fall for whatever the news media wants you to believe.  You're probably also not a day over 30, if that, so you aren't old enough to remember first hand when other breeds suffered that same image, due to attracting "crap owners".  I am.  And I have NEVER had to "smash my pit bulls(yes, it's TWO words) with training so it ends up as a normal dog", and don't care if you find that hilarious or not.  I have something YOU don't: first-hand, hands-on, LONG-TIME experience with the breed, not what some news story has told me about it.  And that question, "who needs a ______(fill in animal of choice)", is probably the stupidest question anyone can ask.  What animals do YOU own, jey?  Do you NEED them?  I can guarantee that there are many people who ask that same question of YOU.
> 
> pitbulllady


 Hmm should I bite your bait or not? I'm tempted but it will probably get me banned.


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## Formerphobe (Oct 18, 2014)

I've never shared my home with any of the 'pit bull' type breeds, but have worked with hundreds, if not thousands of individuals in medical, training and shelter situations.  I have a positive appreciation for the breed(s).  Any breed from any of the breed groups (Working, Sporting, Terriers, Herding, Hounds, etc) can have the occasional 'bad apple'.  Unconscientious breeders can, and have created bad blood lines in ALL breeds. In the right hands, most individuals of any breed have the potential to be 'good dogs'.  The reverse, unfortunately, is more often true of the bully breeds - potentially good dogs in the wrong hands.

The average American should probably stick with stuffed animals.  High intensity, high energy working breeds require regular, positive, intelligent  interaction, socialization and training.  In short, they need a job.  With regular overtime.  It's unfortunate that their current prominence as status symbols among certain factions have also placed them on the front burners as 'most dangerous breed', like their predecessors for the title: GSD, Dobe, Rottie, etc.

Most people couldn't pick a Pit Bull out of a line up if their lives depended on it:
http://mprgroup.net/misc/findpit.html

IME,in the veterinary setting, the most dangerous dogs are usually individuals from the Hound and Non-Sporting Groups.  The Small Fluffys tend to be the worst. The most consistently dangerous breed I have encountered in my lifetime in multiple settings is the Chow Chow.  But, I have also known a few really nice Chows and cannot say that the entire breed is bad.


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## The Snark (Oct 18, 2014)

Formerphobe said:


> I've never shared my home with any of the 'pit bull' type breeds, but have worked with hundreds, if not thousands of individuals in medical, training and shelter situations.  I have a positive appreciation for the breed(s).  Any breed from any of the breed groups (Working, Sporting, Terriers, Herding, Hounds, etc) can have the occasional 'bad apple'.  Unconscientious breeders can, and have created bad blood lines in ALL breeds. In the right hands, most individuals of any breed have the potential to be 'good dogs'.  The reverse, unfortunately, is more often true of the bully breeds - potentially good dogs in the wrong hands.
> 
> The average American should probably stick with stuffed animals.  High intensity, high energy working breeds require regular, positive, intelligent  interaction, socialization and training.  In short, they need a job.  With regular overtime.  It's unfortunate that their current prominence as status symbols among certain factions have also placed them on the front burners as 'most dangerous breed', like their predecessors for the title: GSD, Dobe, Rottie, etc.
> 
> ...


I'd have to go along with the Chow. They are built just plain bad arsed and they know it. Extremely smart, that ancient lineage thinking ability, coupled to a bear like body with almost impenetrable fur. We have quite a few around here that all act similar. Fortunately they tend to ignore humans for the most part but taking liberties with them, as in veterinarian circumstances, you can have a true monster on your hands. Their speed is uncanny and going from indifference ignoring you to a chomp is up at rattlesnake speed. Training them seems to be beyond the ability of nearly all owners. They will train and be obedient but let the person training them not be present they casually throw out the rules and regulations.
The one that lives next door to mom-in-law, name sounds like coy-yup, exemplifies all the worst in them. He guards the property which is unfenced, completely ignores people and is semi controlled by the owners chasing him with a stick though they can rarely land a hit on him and he doesn't seem to feel it. His entertainment is terrorizing all the other dogs in the village. He makes nightly rounds, entering the yards, tackling the local dogs, giving them a brutal chewing, holding them down for a while, then simply wandering off to the next activity. Sometimes the fur on his chest is matted with dried blood.
What I don't understand is he doesn't show any interest in killing and eating his victims like his akita cousins. He's just a malicious? brute.


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## Cavedweller (Oct 18, 2014)

Formerphobe said:


> IME,in the veterinary setting, the most dangerous dogs are usually individuals from the Hound and Non-Sporting Groups.


I didn't know this! Sorry to bring the thread off topic for a moment, but I recently adopted a basset hound mix (the first hound in my family) and it would be great if you could give me some more info regarding their vet difficulties.


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## The Snark (Oct 19, 2014)

Cavedweller said:


> I didn't know this! Sorry to bring the thread off topic for a moment, but I recently adopted a basset hound mix (the first hound in my family) and it would be great if you could give me some more info regarding their vet difficulties.


Just feed him/her like a friend did to Millie. At 130 pounds she had 2 modes. Walk sedately or fall asleep. When she jumped up into his car, that was it. Major exertion for the day. Lie down and sound asleep right there on the floor in 5 seconds. He even tried giving her coffee to get her to exercise a little. Just made her twitch in her sleep.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Cavedweller (Oct 19, 2014)

The Snark said:


> Just feed him/her like a friend did to Millie. At 130 pounds she had 2 modes. Walk sedately or fall asleep. When she jumped up into his car, that was it. Major exertion for the day. Lie down and sound asleep right there on the floor in 5 seconds. He even tried giving her coffee to get her to exercise a little. Just made her twitch in her sleep.


This was a basset hound?? How could it even get any clearance with its tiny legs at that size?


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## The Snark (Oct 19, 2014)

Cavedweller said:


> This was a basset hound?? How could it even get any clearance with its tiny legs at that size?


With great difficulty. A tremendous leap of 8 inches. She was so obese her legs deformed and her feet stuck straight out sideways to help her balance. Seems I've had some friends who have had very strange dogs. A boxer that absolutely refused to stop biting tires of cars, even after he repeatedly managed to get a grip on rolling tires sending him in a spinning roll down the street. A fluff thing sort of poodleish that climbed trees. Hated being up in a tree, howling and yipping incessantly and completely unable to get down, even if on a branch only 4 feet up. A dachsund that insisted on taking a dump on top of the washing machine. Train her, scold her, restrict her, give her own door, a month or two down the road and there's a new pile. And it was no mean feat her managing to get up there, requiring many mighty leaps.


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## Fyrwulf (Oct 19, 2014)

The absolute sweetest dogs I've ever encountered were ABPTs. It's almost a universal trait that when you introduce yourself they immediately do a standing lean on your leg and wait to be petted. The closest I've ever seen a pit bull come to the "vicious" stereotype, and it was actually a APBT/Lab mix, was my friend's dog Champ. He was very protective of his family, to the point of proactivity, but once you were introduced you were family and a potential couch.

And to answer a question from earlier, the king of the bite list in the US is the Golden Retriever and it's not really close. I rather suspect Chihuahuas would top the list if they were taken half as seriously as dogs with the rep of being vicious were.


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## Julia (Oct 24, 2014)

The Snark said:


> Just feed him/her like a friend did to Millie. At 130 pounds she had 2 modes. Walk sedately or fall asleep. When she jumped up into his car, that was it. Major exertion for the day. Lie down and sound asleep right there on the floor in 5 seconds. He even tried giving her coffee to get her to exercise a little. Just made her twitch in her sleep.


This makes me sad...

Reactions: Like 1


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## klawfran3 (Oct 24, 2014)

Fyrwulf said:


> I rather suspect Chihuahuas would top the list if they were taken half as seriously as dogs with the rep of being vicious were.


I honestly think the reason we have so many rotten small dogs and chihuahuas is because nobody takes them serious because of their pitiful size. A snarly little dog the size of a large grapefruit is not very intimidating, so people just laugh at its bad behavior and don't bother to discipline or teach it that biting is bad. The dog grows up its entire life snarling and biting at people and soon that becomes his nature, and people begin wondering why their "precious little puppy" became such a snarling hellspawn that satan himself would think twice before petting it. It's because people don't take these toy dogs serious enough and just reinforce their bad behavior.


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## Smokehound714 (Oct 24, 2014)

jigalojey said:


> Meh I'm glad they're banned here, stops the problem for crap owners in the first place, you have to ask yourself do you really NEED a Pitbull?


Pitbull actually came to my aid once when a couple of LABS attacked me.  He didnt hurt them, just scared them off.  Bought that dog a steak for his troubles, his owners were amazing, like they just understood how to win at life, haha

Reactions: Like 1


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## viper69 (Oct 25, 2014)

365 days a year is Pitbull awareness, no one wants to be lunch when they are walking down the street!

Reactions: Like 1


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## cold blood (Oct 25, 2014)

Fyrwulf said:


> And to answer a question from earlier, the king of the bite list in the US is the Golden Retriever and it's not really close. I rather suspect Chihuahuas would top the list if they were taken half as seriously as dogs with the rep of being vicious were.


I was just having this conversation with the women I walk my dog with, one mentioned goldens were number one and my first response was exactly yours....if Chihuahuas were reported, they'd likely lead the list.  Many small dogs are much more prone to bite as they are easily indimidated and overly defensive....but when a small dog bites its never taken as seriously or reported.

"Napolean syndrome" is common with many small dogs...generally the owners fault, just like mean big dogs.


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## Smokehound714 (Oct 31, 2014)

I hate freaking chihuahuas.  They're ugly, they're annoying, they bite, and everyone freaking has one >=(

Reactions: Like 1


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## bigjej (Nov 20, 2014)

Best dog I ever had or knew. We had to put her down last year at 13 years old. Smart loving and loyal. She was great with kids - mine or strangers. The handful of times she showed human aggression were 100% warranted. Otherwise it was her tail amd tongue you had to watch oit for. Unless you were a cat. She had a strong prey drive for cats and oppossums and a hatred of small yippy dogs that sniffed her butt. Evem then she just gave a growl and of that didmt stop it, a snap, but never bit another dog. This is coming from someone who grew up being terrorized by neighborhood punks with crazy pitbulls and my brother being bitten by one. Would find it hard to own any other breed now.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Julia (Nov 24, 2014)

I'm sorry for your loss, bigjej.  She was a very beautiful girl with the trademark pit bull smile...and naturally awkward way of sitting.  Do you have another one now?

Reactions: Like 1


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## bigjej (Nov 24, 2014)

Thanks. My current life situation precludes onr but I hope in another year or so. Have to get the wife to agree. She prefers fluffy white dogs and retrievers.


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