# What is something regarding tarantulas that's widely agreed upon on this site that you personally disagree with?



## spideyspinneret78 (Jul 24, 2021)

Please be respectful of other's opinions! I think that it's always good to have a respectful discussion about things that are widely accepted but that some may disagree with. For me, I don't necessarily think it's wrong to feed large tarantulas like Theraphosa/ Pamphobeteus species small vertebrate prey on occasion. After a molt, sometimes I'll give my T. stirmi a pinky mouse or small feeder gecko as a treat. I know that some disagree with this, but I don't have an issue with it, as long as it's not the bulk of the tarantula's diet. This is just an example....but what are some things that are widely touted on this site that you don't agree with? Please have an open mind and be respectful. I'm curious what all of you think.

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 1


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## l4nsky (Jul 24, 2021)

Well, I'm pretty sure a lot of hobbyists here know where I stand on the humidity debate now lol....

Oh, and I also use supplemental heat for my sling/juvie enclosures.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Poonjab (Jul 24, 2021)

Everything

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 4 | Funny 7 | Mind Blown 1


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## YungRasputin (Jul 24, 2021)

-that you can develop a system which rates venom levels and of which can be easily interpreted by lay people unfamiliar with medical/scientific terminology or categorization 

-handling is wrong 

-Exotics Lair is a compendium of “what not to do” 

-spacious enclosures are good 

-humidity isn’t that complicated and is important 

-moldy enclosures are examples of abuse and neglect 

there’s probably more but that’s off the top of my head

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## l4nsky (Jul 24, 2021)

Poonjab said:


> Everything


Oh, so you're the one that handles Cobalt Blue's over the edge of a balcony after taking them out of their communal desert enclosure after they've just been fed on small mice and lizards?

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Funny 9


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## DomGom TheFather (Jul 24, 2021)

I sterilize my substrate.
Never had any issues with mold or mite outbreaks in a spider enclosure.
I think there's way too much stock put into the whole microbiome hoopla. Especially when we're talking about substrates like peat and coco fiber.

Reactions: Like 2 | Thanks 1 | Agree 1


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## VaporRyder (Jul 24, 2021)

I don’t believe that ‘side or lateral airflow’ is a thing in human domiciles without a significant breeze rushing through.   

School me!

Reactions: Funny 1


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## USNGunner (Jul 24, 2021)

l4nsky said:


> Oh, so you're the one that handles Cobalt Blue's over the edge of a balcony after taking them out of their communal desert enclosure after they've just been fed on small mice and lizards?


And what of it?

Reactions: Thanks 1 | Funny 5


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## VaporRyder (Jul 24, 2021)

VaporRyder said:


> I don’t believe that ‘side or lateral airflow’ is a thing in human domiciles without a significant breeze rushing through.
> 
> School me!


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## moricollins (Jul 24, 2021)

That @viper69 isn't a nice guy.... He's perfectly nice, in the right situations.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 7 | Funny 3


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## viper69 (Jul 24, 2021)

Poonjab said:


> Everything


Nothing



moricollins said:


> That @viper69 isn't a nice guy.... He's perfectly nice, in the right situations.


Thank you!

People that whine about my replies and have called me names at times, and lied about what I wrote do not have the common curtesy to rewrite my “rude” replies the way they want them!

Instead of whining just reply about your T.

They whine about the delivery not the actual information I provide- guess their T is less important than the delivery of said message- that’s just crazy

Bunch of sugar-coated weenies all of them.

Reactions: Like 3 | Funny 9 | Love 3 | Award 1


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## VaporRyder (Jul 24, 2021)

Come on arachnolords! Let’s have it!  



viper69 said:


> Nothing
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I thought you were an utter **** at first, but now I like you! Carry on!

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## viper69 (Jul 24, 2021)

VaporRyder said:


> I thought you were an utter **** at first, but now I like you! Carry on!


Just a provider of direct advice

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 2


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## VaporRyder (Jul 24, 2021)

Absolutely. And extremely valuable!

Reactions: Thanks 1


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## Timc (Jul 24, 2021)

The use of water bowls. I used to use them but literally every single one ever ended up buried or filled with substrate, so I just cut out the middleman and went right to wetting the sub in rotating corners/sides/halves depending on the species. Never had any issues and water is still available to drink. I do use them for my vertebrae pets though.

I’m officially ready for some red Xs lol

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 2


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## VaporRyder (Jul 24, 2021)

Timc said:


> The use of water bowls. I used to use them but literally every single one ever ended up buried or filled with substrate, so I just cut out the middleman and went right to wetting the sub in rotating corners/sides/halves depending on the species. Never had any issues and water is still available to drink. I do use them for my vertebrae pets though.
> 
> I’m officially ready for some red Xs lol


I’ve been wondering about that.


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## DomGom TheFather (Jul 24, 2021)

You can absolutely raise a spider without a water dish. You can also raise a child without diapers. I find it easier and less worrisome to include them whenever possible.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3 | Funny 5 | Award 1


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## Liquifin (Jul 24, 2021)

I keep tarantulas in smaller than average enclosures as what a tarantula breeder would normally do. If you're wondering why there isn't really any tarantula youtubers that are true tarantula breeders, it's because they keep tarantulas in smaller enclosures. Which many people will then make the incentive of comparison to the more notorious/negative tarantula youtubers. Just think of it like keeping snakes on snake racks. We still love tarantulas, but producing the species and number populations within the hobby comes first.

I have not seen one tarantula breeder that has all their tarantulas in perfectly ideal sized enclosures yet. Some will have good/perfect size enclosures, but more often times than not, breeders will keep tarantulas in smaller enclosures.

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 3


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## VaporRyder (Jul 24, 2021)

Good point.


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## Thane1616 (Jul 24, 2021)

The need for some arbitrary "level of experience" to keep certain inverts. Use tongs, keep a catch cup handy and dont handle...there I fixed it...I think

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 1


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## viper69 (Jul 24, 2021)

Timc said:


> The use of water bowls. I used to use them but literally every single one ever ended up buried or filled with substrate, so I just cut out the middleman and went right to wetting the sub in rotating corners/sides/halves depending on the species. Never had any issues and water is still available to drink. I do use them for my vertebrae pets though.
> 
> I’m officially ready for some red Xs lol


Dish is better for me- water is always there esp when I leave town



Thane1616 said:


> The need for some arbitrary "level of experience" to keep certain inverts. Use tongs, keep a catch cup handy and dont handle...there I fixed it...I think


You don’t need a catch cup when you let them free roam- it’s much better

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 4


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## Edan bandoot (Jul 24, 2021)

The difficulty ladder

Reactions: Like 9


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## Thane1616 (Jul 24, 2021)

viper69 said:


> You don’t need a catch cup when you let them free roam- it’s much better


I push enough buttons at my house keeping a dubia colony and just having my Avic

Reactions: Funny 5


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## Venom1080 (Jul 25, 2021)

My mind has changed on alot of things since I joined. 

-Water dishes are not mandatory. I know better breeders than you who never use them.

-Avicularia do not need a giant, thick, canopy of plastic plants. They do fine with a leaned cord bark slab just like a pokie or Psalmopoeus. They're extremely adaptable. Just look at wild photos.

-the difficulty scale doesn't really exist. A dedicated beginner can keep just about anything without issue. 

-Poecilotheria are as easy to manage as alot of NW arboreals. They're demonized by the ignorant. 

-anchor points for heavy webbers add nothing to the spider. 

-feeding vertebrates to spiders is cool and a great way to mimic a natural diet and fatten up large spiders. Vertebrates are common prey for wild tarantulas. There's a scientific article on Poecilotheria eating bats. 

- Tong feeding isn't going to break your spiders fangs. It's useful and quite safe.

-screen lids rarely cause problems. My arboreals living for the last 5 years with them prove that.

Reactions: Like 5 | Agree 2


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## VaporRyder (Jul 25, 2021)

Screen lids too, I’ve had a few spiders (arboreal and terrestrial) in unmodified Exo Terras without drama.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## DomGom TheFather (Jul 25, 2021)

I let my kids play in the street.
They did not get hit by a car.
See where this is going?

Reactions: Agree 4 | Funny 1


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## VaporRyder (Jul 25, 2021)

Bogie man, schmogie man  

Worse than you yanks and your ‘tyranical goverment’!



Edit: kudos to US Battle Sergeant Battaglia! Solid guy, good times @ Lympstone!

Reactions: Funny 1


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## DomGom TheFather (Jul 25, 2021)

VaporRyder said:


> Worse than you yanks and your ‘tyranical goverment!’


We were born this way. 
Had to kick _your _ass.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## 8 legged (Jul 25, 2021)

spideyspinneret78 said:


> Please be respectful of other's opinions! I think that it's always good to have a respectful discussion about things that are widely accepted but that some may disagree with. For me, I don't necessarily think it's wrong to feed large tarantulas like Theraphosa/ Pamphobeteus species small vertebrate prey on occasion. After a molt, sometimes I'll give my T. stirmi a pinky mouse or small feeder gecko as a treat. I know that some disagree with this, but I don't have an issue with it, as long as it's not the bulk of the tarantula's diet. This is just an example....but what are some things that are widely touted on this site that you don't agree with? Please have an open mind and be respectful. I'm curious what all of you think.


I am resistant to learning about exos and terrestrials. Over 10 years using exos without any problems make me an old idiot, but I still think it's good and I understand that there will always be a counterattack from the Grym Reaper! I like you and otherwise you have already helped me a lot!

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2


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## The Grym Reaper (Jul 25, 2021)

"Aviculariinae need bone dry setups with a gazillion vent holes all over the enclosure in order to survive"

Just not true at all, I've been raising various Aviculariinae over slightly moist sub with nowhere near the amount of vent holes that I see people putting in their Avic setups for 5 years and I've never had any deaths that could be attributed keeping them this way.

"Feeding schedules are bad/stupid and only result in fat tarantulas that fast for months/years"

Only if you follow generic advice that doesn't take into account things like size/growth rate/portions, otherwise they can work perfectly fine.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 3 | Funny 1


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## mack1855 (Jul 25, 2021)

I refuse to look at this blasphemous thread that is covering the truth in untested and scandalous ideas.
How dare you think for yourselves..

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 10


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## BoyFromLA (Jul 25, 2021)

Tarantulas are very capable of upright molt, just very stressful to the eyes of the beholder.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## Malum Argenteum (Jul 25, 2021)

I disagree with the pervasive head-in-the-sand attitude toward two related false assumptions: one, that if a person buys a specimen descended from stock that was (reasonably thought to be) smuggled, so long as the purchased specimen is captive bred that person is not contributing to smuggling; two, that buying wild collected specimens for anything other than establishing a breeding program is responsible.

I also disagree that posing issues as matters of agreement or disagreement (rather than of truth or falsity, or claims strongly supported by evidence and those less supported by evidence) is a good way to improve much of anything, but that's possibly a bit too meta for this thread.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dorifto (Jul 25, 2021)

Should I post my opinions about humidity and size?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Stardust1986 (Jul 25, 2021)

DomGom TheFather said:


> We were born this way.
> Had to kick _your _ass.
> [/QUOTE





Thane1616 said:


> The need for some arbitrary "level of experience" to keep certain inverts. Use tongs, keep a catch cup handy and dont handle...there I fixed it...I think


I think the only thing I disagree with is being overly  "militant" with tarantula care, I think anyone who tries their best and listens to advise is a decent keeper, we're here to be better keepers. If people are too critical, someone may just give up prematurely, we are all just learning as we go

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## basin79 (Jul 25, 2021)

VaporRyder said:


> Screen lids too, I’ve had a few spiders (arboreal and terrestrial) in unmodified Exo Terras without drama.


But tarantula's have died/lost legs because of them. Screen lids being dangerous isn't an opinion. It's fact.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 6


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## viper69 (Jul 25, 2021)

Venom1080 said:


> -screen lids rarely cause problems. My arboreals living for the last 5 years with them prove that.


Rarely sure, but why are you willing to take the risk-- that's the answer I'm always looking for. Is it laziness?



VaporRyder said:


> Worse than you yanks and your ‘tyranical goverment’!


Really? tyranical....let's look into the history books and see how many nations have English as a language, not because they wanted it, but because it was forced on them.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2


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## Venom1080 (Jul 25, 2021)

viper69 said:


> Rarely sure, but why are you willing to take the risk-- that's the answer I'm always looking for. Is it laziness?
> 
> 
> 
> Really? tyranical....let's look into the history books and see how many nations have English as a language, not because they wanted it, but because it was forced on them.


Same reason I go to work every morning without a suit of armor and shotgun.

The small possibility of being attacked by a dragon doesn't make it logical to prepare for it. Small probabilities ought not dictate daily routine.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## viper69 (Jul 25, 2021)

The Grym Reaper said:


> Aviculariinae need bone dry setups


You are right, they don't NEED it. However, there's a reason why this is recommended. It has nothing do with the T per se, and everything to do with the human owners's lack of research generally speaking. There's a reason why this genus has more "Help my T is dying" thread than ANY OTHER genus on here.




DomGom TheFather said:


> I let my kids play in the street.
> They did not get hit by a car.
> See where this is going?


Perfect analogy.


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## USNGunner (Jul 25, 2021)

VaporRyder said:


> Edit: kudos to US Battle Sergeant Battaglia! Solid guy, good times @ Lympstone!


Semper Fi Mac!

Reactions: Like 1


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## VaporRyder (Jul 25, 2021)

viper69 said:


> Really? tyranical....let's look into the history books and see how many nations have English as a language, not because they wanted it, but because it was forced on them.


No Viper, I was sarcastically referring to someone's fear of a tyrannical government in another thread. DomGom got it, I think.

I’m absolutely not saying that the US has a tyrannical goverment, actually my point was the opposite, hence the inverted commas, and not to fear the bogeyman.

Reactions: Like 1


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## viper69 (Jul 25, 2021)

VaporRyder said:


> No Viper, I was sarcastically referring to someone's fear of a tyrannical government in another thread. DomGom got it, I think.
> 
> I’m absolutely not saying that the US has a tyrannical goverment, actually my point was the opposite, hence the inverted commas, and not to fear the bogeyman.


Ohhh...a bit too literal here, sorry about that. I should have noticed the emoticons you used! Yeah Dom is better than me at picking up nuance on the forum.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dorifto (Jul 25, 2021)

I'm going to jump in to the wagon, let start...

Big/small enclosures: well everybody know that I raised my T in two gigantic enclosures, 60x40x40cm 24x16x16 inch enclosures. So what's my point of view? Every single enclosure should be setted acordingly to suit the needs of your T, big or small. Unless you are a breeder, that logically needs to handle hundreds of enclosures, and they cant manage so many "big" enclosures, they should have a propper enclosure. Watching Ts cramped in deli cups drives me nuts, the same that if the T is in a big enclosure with almost no substrate and without any kind hides... Both extremes should be prohibited. You can set up awesome enclosures in small sized enclosures, and the same goes for big ones.



Water dishes: I never had a single one, and never had any single issue of dehydration, BUT, I have vivariums, so there is always a water source: a leaf, the moss...



Humidity: Everybody knows my point of view about it. Should it be considered? Yes. Should you chase an exact humidity number in your enclosure? NO. And here is my explanation:

None of us live in the same area, so the climate changes from one place to another. Some of us live in a more humid area and others in a drier area. What this mean? If you keep a tropical species bone dry in a humid area, automatically the air will provide an extra moisture to the enclosure. But, if you live in a drier area, and you keep the same species bone dry, and you are a newbie, surely your T will be f*cked up. That doesn't mean that an experienced keeper couldn't rise any T in this condition, because usually a experienced keeper always is checking their Ts and knows if something is wrong if he sees any sign of dehydration etc. But a newbie what does? "Hello my avic is in a strange position"...

Knowing this, and this happened a looooot of times, I even made a poll about the issue to know where the keeper was located and how the T was kept, humidity should be considered, to keep your enclosure moister or drier, to prevent any possible issues with moltings, dehydrations... etc.



Ventilation: There is not too much ventilation, too much ventilation won't kill your T* , the lack of it, could. And this point is correlated with humidity, why? If you keep a humid specie dry in a humid area, the more moisture will receive from the hair if there is a lot of ventilation. * But the opposite happens if you are in a drier area, the excess of ventilation it will absorb moisture from the enclosure.



Planted vs non planted: I love planted enclosures  a planted enclosure can be as good or better as a non planted one, and a non planted enclosure can be as worse than a planted one regarding how they are setted. If you are going to use plants, make your homeworks, and remember that the enclosure if for your Ts, not for the plants, or things can go wrong pretty easily and fast.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Scp682 (Jul 25, 2021)

That there's only one right way to do everything and everyone else is wrong.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## mantisfan101 (Jul 25, 2021)

Occasional handling is fine

Reactions: Like 3 | Dislike 2 | Agree 1 | Funny 2 | Sad 1 | Wow 1 | Love 1 | Optimistic 1 | Thinking 1


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## spideyspinneret78 (Jul 25, 2021)

Dorifto said:


> I'm going to jump in to the wagon, let start...
> 
> Big/small enclosures: well everybody know that I raised my T in two gigantic enclosures, 60x40x40cm 24x16x16 inch enclosures. So what's my point of view? Every single enclosure should be setted acordingly to suit the needs of your T, big or small. Unless you are a breeder, that logically needs to handle hundreds of enclosures, and they cant manage so many "big" enclosures, they should have a propper enclosure. Watching Ts cramped in deli cups drives me nuts, the same that if the T is in a big enclosure with almost no substrate and without any kind hides... Both extremes should be prohibited. You can set up awesome enclosures in small sized enclosures, and the same goes for big ones.
> 
> ...


I agree with the moisture/ humidity part, and how a lot of it can depend on the climate of where you live. Last year I moved from a more humid environment to one that is at a higher altitude, very cold and bone-dry in the winter, and hot and parched in the heat of summer. Over my first winter here I lost several several slings, all of which got stuck in their molts. Looking back on things, I strongly suspect that a big part of it was that the air was extremely dry and I failed to adjust my husbandry accordingly. In this environment desiccation is a big concern, especially for small slings, and in this environment humididty IS something that I need to be concerned about. I don't chase specific numbers, but I've found that it is important to an extent. However, if I lived in a very humid climate and did what I do now, my enclosures would be moldy and disgusting.



mantisfan101 said:


> Occasional handling is fine
> View attachment 393081
> 
> View attachment 393082


you're a very skilled photographer

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Informative 1


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## zeeman (Jul 25, 2021)

Venom1080 said:


> -feeding vertebrates to spiders is cool and a great way to mimic a natural diet and fatten up large spiders. Vertebrates are common prey for wild tarantulas. There's a scientific article on Poecilotheria eating bats.


I'm don't see an issue with feeding vertebrates as long as it's pre-killed. If you're feeding live I think that's pretty unnecessarily cruel. But my viewpoint on it won't matter anyhow. 


I disagree with cross ventilation. My current C Versicolor lived to about 1" in a small dram vial with 4 pin holes poked in the lid. I've been doing all my recent slings like that with no issues. Not sure what biological requirement necessitates airflow across the animal. Not like fish which require moving water across their gills to breathe (not all fish but some since I'm no expert on the matter).


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## viper69 (Jul 25, 2021)

Venom1080 said:


> ...The small possibility of being attacked by a dragon doesn't make it logical to prepare for it. Small probabilities ought not dictate daily routine.


Dragons don’t exist.

Replacing a screen lid once due to a small probability dictates your normal routine in T husbandry on a daily basis? 

Like I always say, I don’t see why owners who enjoy these animals are willing to let their animals take the fall, literally and figuratively.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2 | Wow 1


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## Edan bandoot (Jul 25, 2021)

viper69 said:


> Dragons don’t exist.


 o rly

Reactions: Funny 7 | Thinking 1


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## viper69 (Jul 25, 2021)

Edan bandoot said:


> o rly


???



zeeman said:


> Not sure what biological requirement necessitates airflow across the animal.


It has nothing to do with air flow across the animal, you’re correct!

Avic husbandry by many is done by chasing humidity numbers because every stupid “care sheet” reads with those.

Over time people killed lots of Avics due to the above.

People confuse humidity and think that means a box should be really moist inside- not true. But as they do this, the box’s air gets moist/stuffy because there’s little venting for foul air to escape =‘s dead Avic

I’ve been critter hunting in tropical rain forests, they are not stuffy per se, air is circulating.

Thriving Avics is not about dry boxes, but providing air that is not moist/stuffy.

The US market has one main way for this, the EU market has a different method for this.

Each reach the same goal.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 2


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## Liquifin (Jul 25, 2021)

mantisfan101 said:


> Occasional handling is fine
> View attachment 393081
> 
> View attachment 393082


Nice pictures, but I've never handled tarantulas purposefully. Unintentionally one time during a rehouse, I got bit by my S. calceatum. What happened was that it freaked out, ran up my giant long tongs up onto my right arm and jump onto my left hand and bit me. I have to say, their bites as being the worst of the worst is true. If you work out or have some/good developed muscles, their venom is going to affect you very negatively. I cannot tell you how bad OW tarantula venom is, but until the day you get more than what you chew for, feel free to handle purposefully at your own discretion.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Dorifto (Jul 25, 2021)

spideyspinneret78 said:


> I agree with the moisture/ humidity part, and how a lot of it can depend on the climate of where you live. Last year I moved from a more humid environment to one that is at a higher altitude, very cold and bone-dry in the winter, and hot and parched in the heat of summer. Over my first winter here I lost several several slings, all of which got stuck in their molts. Looking back on things, I strongly suspect that a big part of it was that the air was extremely dry and I failed to adjust my husbandry accordingly. In this environment desiccation is a big concern, especially for small slings, and in this environment humididty IS something that I need to be concerned about. I don't chase specific numbers, but I've found that it is important to an extent. However, if I lived in a very humid climate and did what I do now, my enclosures would be moldy and disgusting.


In your case even played another big factor too, the altitude. The higher the altitude the faster the water evaporates, so you had two big variables to keep in mind.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## VaporRyder (Jul 25, 2021)

I’ll never, ever handle a tarantula. I’d like to say that it’s for their benefit, safety etc. It’s not, it’s for me!

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## spideyspinneret78 (Jul 25, 2021)

I can see where it may be acceptable to handle some species on occasion. For example, potentially handling a docile New World species like a B. emilia or A. chalcodes during educational outreach programs, if done in a safe manner.

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## mantisfan101 (Jul 25, 2021)

Liquifin said:


> Nice pictures, but I've never handled tarantulas purposefully. Unintentionally one time during a rehouse, I got bit by my S. calceatum. What happened was that it freaked out, ran up my giant long tongs up onto my right arm and jump onto my left hand and bit me. I have to say, their bites as being the worst of the worst is true. If you work out or have some/good developed muscles, their venom is going to affect you very negatively. I cannot tell you how bad OW tarantula venom is, but until the day you get more than what you chew for, feel free to handle purposefully at your own discretion.


There is a list of species that I have strictly labelled "hands-off", mostly because of the potency of their venom. I'm no stranger to them suddenly bolting out of nowhere, I've had enough experience with pedes and other true spiders to deal with that. Also I've just come to terms with the fact that if I do handle, I am going to get bit at some point(already happened with a scolopendra heros and alternans)


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## jezzy607 (Jul 26, 2021)

I also disagree with the whole "water dishes are required" thing. That doesn't mean I want YOU not to use them.


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## IronMaiden (Jul 26, 2021)

I'm not against handling. I've only handled my spiders a couple times. I have not handled anyone recently because I don't wanna risk it.  I do think it's a better idea not to handle but I'm not totally against it either.


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## Venom1080 (Jul 26, 2021)

zeeman said:


> I'm don't see an issue with feeding vertebrates as long as it's pre-killed. If you're feeding live I think that's pretty unnecessarily cruel. But my viewpoint on it won't matter anyhow.
> 
> 
> I disagree with cross ventilation. My current C Versicolor lived to about 1" in a small dram vial with 4 pin holes poked in the lid. I've been doing all my recent slings like that with no issues. Not sure what biological requirement necessitates airflow across the animal. Not like fish which require moving water across their gills to breathe (not all fish but some since I'm no expert on the matter).


Live is cooler and I don't care.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Arthroverts (Jul 26, 2021)

Yeah, right, you aren't going to get me to incriminate myself that easily @spideyspinneret78...



Thanks,

Arthroverts

Reactions: Funny 3


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## RezonantVoid (Jul 26, 2021)

The amount of generalised husbandry I see from the majority of keepers. One such example is a recent thread I saw here about an unhappy Idiothele mira that was taking ages to settle in. The advice was that nothing was wrong and that is normal behaviour, and I was surprised to see how many long time keepers admitted theirs too take weeks sometimes to just start a burrow. And while it certainly isn't the case with every captive I.mira specimen, it's certainly a topic that seems to reoccur with the common denominator being the setups.

Let's look at things logically: a species that builds a lid is likely even more shy and reclusive than an open hole one since it builds a structure to conceal itself. Logic decrees such a species should burrow and try to hide as soon as possible. Same goes for the Arbanitis, Blakistonia, Cataxia, Cryptoforis, Euoplos, Idiommata, Idiosoma, Mandjelia, Seqocrypta, Missulena and probably even more Ive kept across 3.5 years. If it is not doing this, something is wrong. The only time the unsettled pacing, emerging every night and making new burrows every 6 months occurs is when housed on peat moss/cocofibre like everyone houses I.mira. This is because such materials have horrible structural integrity and are the definitive opposite of the tough, clay-loam soils such species naturally live in. They result in fragile, floppy lids that break very easily and an inability to incorporate moss onto the lids like in the wild. When housed upon the correct types of soils, generally I get fully functional lids and happy spiders in less than 10 hours, and I'll never see the spiders stress pacing outside again.

If any lid building species I own does not burrow and is still on the surface after 24 hours, I consider that setup as a failure and try again. If the spider emerges at all other than to dump soil or catch prey, I consider that setup as a failure and try again.

This is just one example of a specific species, but I really wish more people would pay attention to a species wild conditions and try to better simulate it, instead of putting everything on the same loose substrate mix and pretending that surface activity is just their T happily exploring.

Man, that feels good to finally get that off my chest!

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 6 | Informative 4 | Wow 1 | Love 1


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## DomGom TheFather (Jul 26, 2021)

Venom1080 said:


> meteors.


It's more like hail. It happens enough.
It's your choice but i don't see any harm in eliminating the screen issue. It's like leaving your toddler in a room with an open window. It probably won't happen but it definitely does, sometimes.

You could say the same for high enclosures and heavy terrestrials. They don't always get hurt but if it's easy to prevent, why not?


Venom1080 said:


> Live is cooler and I don't care.


You monster! Lol

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Stardust1986 (Jul 26, 2021)

RezonantVoid said:


> The amount of generalised husbandry I see from the majority of keepers. One such example is a recent thread I saw here about an unhappy Idiothele mira that was taking ages to settle in. The advice was that nothing was wrong and that is normal behaviour, and I was surprised to see how many long time keepers admitted theirs too take weeks sometimes to just start a burrow. And while it certainly isn't the case with every captive I.mira specimen, it's certainly a topic that seems to reoccur with the common denominator being the setups.
> 
> Let's look at things logically: a species that builds a lid is likely even more shy and reclusive than an open hole one since it builds a structure to conceal itself. Logic decrees such a species should burrow and try to hide as soon as possible. Same goes for the Arbanitis, Blakistonia, Cataxia, Cryptoforis, Euoplos, Idiommata, Idiosoma, Mandjelia, Seqocrypta, Missulena and probably even more Ive kept across 3.5 years. If it is not doing this, something is wrong. The only time the unsettled pacing, emerging every night and making new burrows every 6 months occurs is when housed on peat moss/cocofibre like everyone houses I.mira. This is because such materials have horrible structural integrity and are the definitive opposite of the tough, clay-loam soils such species naturally live in. They result of fragile, floppy lids that break very easily and an inability to incorporate moss onto the lids like in the wild. When housed upon these types of soils, generally I get fully functional lids and happy spiders in less than 10 hours, and I'll never see the spiders stress pacing outside again.
> 
> ...


I think our government is tyrannical, maybe all of our governments are,l they keep us in the dark and feed us "dung" but my therophosa molted the other day, yeah, family friendly

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Arthroverts (Jul 26, 2021)

RezonantVoid said:


> The amount of generalised husbandry I see from the majority of keepers. One such example is a recent thread I saw here about an unhappy Idiothele mira that was taking ages to settle in. The advice was that nothing was wrong and that is normal behaviour, and I was surprised to see how many long time keepers admitted theirs too take weeks sometimes to just start a burrow. And while it certainly isn't the case with every captive I.mira specimen, it's certainly a topic that seems to reoccur with the common denominator being the setups.
> 
> Let's look at things logically: a species that builds a lid is likely even more shy and reclusive than an open hole one since it builds a structure to conceal itself. Logic decrees such a species should burrow and try to hide as soon as possible. Same goes for the Arbanitis, Blakistonia, Cataxia, Cryptoforis, Euoplos, Idiommata, Idiosoma, Mandjelia, Seqocrypta, Missulena and probably even more Ive kept across 3.5 years. If it is not doing this, something is wrong. The only time the unsettled pacing, emerging every night and making new burrows every 6 months occurs is when housed on peat moss/cocofibre like everyone houses I.mira. This is because such materials have horrible structural integrity and are the definitive opposite of the tough, clay-loam soils such species naturally live in. They result of fragile, floppy lids that break very easily and an inability to incorporate moss onto the lids like in the wild. When housed upon these types of soils, generally I get fully functional lids and happy spiders in less than 10 hours, and I'll never see the spiders stress pacing outside again.
> 
> ...


Time to start your own line of clay-based tarantula substrate RezonantVoid and beat Zoomed with its Eco-Earth at its own game, ha ha.

Thanks,

Arthroverts

P.S Can I be the US representative for it when you eventually expand out this way?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Stardust1986 (Jul 26, 2021)

Arthroverts said:


> Time to start your own line of clay-based tarantula substrate RezonantVoid and beat Zoomed with its Eco-Earth at its own game, ha ha.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> ...


We wont br able to decide this, yeah! Representatives democracy! Oh BTW, who are these people?


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## Venom1080 (Jul 26, 2021)

DomGom TheFather said:


> It's more like hail. It happens enough.
> It's your choice but i don't see any harm in eliminating the screen issue. It's like leaving your toddler in a room with an open window. It probably won't happen but it definitely does, sometimes.
> 
> You could say the same for high enclosures and heavy terrestrials. They don't always get hurt but if it's easy to prevent, why not?
> ...


Of course there's no harm in it lol. My point is simply that it doesn't happen enough for me to be concerned. I have a ton of screen lids. I'm not going through the trouble for what I deem practically non issue based on years and years of first hand experience. 

I have a porteri that chews on her acrylic lid. She's one I don't want with a screen lid.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## DomGom TheFather (Jul 26, 2021)

Venom1080 said:


> Of course there's no harm in it lol. My point is simply that it doesn't happen enough for me to be concerned. I have a ton of screen lids. I'm not going through the trouble for what I deem practically non issue based on years and years of first hand experience.
> 
> I have a porteri that chews on her acrylic lid. She's one I don't want with a screen lid.


I understand.
They're _your _spiders.
You call the shots. _bang~_  ~_bang _


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## Stardust1986 (Jul 26, 2021)

Venom1080 said:


> Of course there's no harm in it lol. My point is simply that it doesn't happen enough for to be concerned. I have a ton of screen lids. I'm not going through the trouble for what I deem practically non issue based on years and years of first hand experience.
> 
> I have a porteri that chews on her acrylic lid. She's one I don't want with a screen lid.


She shouldnt chew threw her acrylic screen lid, I've never seen this or heard of it, they can get their feet caught on merltql screen. Acrylic lid is best



Stardust1986 said:


> She shouldnt chew threw her acrylic screen lid, I've never seen this or heard of it, they can get their feet caught on metsl screen. Acrylic lid is best





DomGom TheFather said:


> I understand.
> They're _your _spiders.
> You call the shots. _bang~_  ~_bang _


Isnt this something that is known to cause death? You know a lot, isnt this unsafe...


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## DomGom TheFather (Jul 26, 2021)

Stardust1986 said:


> Isnt this something that is known to cause death? You know a lot, isnt this unsafe...


If they get caught, yes.
It's pretty unsafe.
I had screen lids on a few enclosures in the past and nothing happened. I don't use them anymore because i feel they pose a risk i don't want to take.
If someone knows the risk and takes it, they're making a decision. We all make choices. I'm not going to harp on it.


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## Stardust1986 (Jul 26, 2021)

DomGom TheFather said:


> If they get hurt, yes.
> It's pretty unsafe.
> I had screen lids on a few enclosures in the past and nothing happened. I don't use them anymore because i feel they pose a risk i don't want to take.
> If someone knows the risk and takes it, they're making a decision. We all make choices. I'm not going to harp on it.


Good position to take on it, I've just heard a lot of bad stories, online,  if your experience is good though, then it is probably safe, your just saying it's not recommended? I guess freak accidents can always happen


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## DomGom TheFather (Jul 26, 2021)

Stardust1986 said:


> Good position to take on it, I've just heard a lot of bad stories, online,  if your experience is good though, then it is probably safe, your just saying it's not recommended? I guess freak accidents can always happen


I don't think it's safe at all or worth the risk. There's no benefit to weigh it against. I got lucky. Lots of people get lucky. I would still strongly advise against having any woven mesh screen but I'm not going to change anyone's mind if they're committed to using them.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## RezonantVoid (Jul 26, 2021)

Arthroverts said:


> Time to start your own line of clay-based tarantula substrate RezonantVoid and beat Zoomed with its Eco-Earth at its own game, ha ha.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> ...


I use a few different mixtures with varying amounts of natural clay, and I kid you not I've had a bunch of people already ask me for each type. But hands off! This clay is mine!!

Also, sure thing, I will start preparations immediately


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## KenNet (Jul 26, 2021)

"What is something regarding tarantulas thats widely agreed upon on this site that you personally disagree with."

You can't sex a sling without a thorough examination of the exuvia.


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## DomGom TheFather (Jul 26, 2021)

KenNet said:


> You can't sex a sling without a thorough examination of the exuvia.


I can't.


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## Ungoliant (Jul 26, 2021)

RezonantVoid said:


> The only time the unsettled pacing, emerging every night and making new burrows every 6 months occurs is when housed on peat moss/cocofibre like everyone houses I.mira. This is because such materials have horrible structural integrity and are the definitive opposite of the tough, clay-loam soils such species naturally live in.


Counterpoint: I don't use coco/peat moss for my _Idiothele mira_.  I have them on a topsoil/clay mix, which is excellent for maintaining structural integrity of burrows, yet 2/4 of them were slow to burrow.  (They've all burrowed now with proper trapdoors.)

Reactions: Like 2


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## KenNet (Jul 26, 2021)

DomGom TheFather said:


> I can't.


But you can learn


DomGom TheFather said:


> I can't.


I'll never buy a female from you then...

Reactions: Funny 2


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## DomGom TheFather (Jul 26, 2021)

KenNet said:


> But you can learn
> 
> I'll never buy a female from you then...


I wouldn't sell anyone one labeled female if i wasn't totally sure. At small sizes, that takes a molt.

But let's be real... If it's female, I'm keeping it. Lol

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 3


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## Timc (Jul 27, 2021)

I also see the word “Aviculariinae” thrown around this site completely wrong fairly often, multiple times in this thread already. It’s a sub family that includes more than just Avics and their close cousins, even a fossorial genus as well. So when I see someone say “All Aviculariinae need good ventilation and a cork slab tilted at 45.634857 degree angle and lots of leaf cover around the top and blah blah blah” well…no. They don’t. Some need lots of dirt to dig in, some make trap doors, some are even OW. Drives me right up a wall.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 3


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## VaporRyder (Jul 27, 2021)

Timc said:


> “…and a cork slab tilted at 45.634857 degree angle…”


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## Edan bandoot (Jul 27, 2021)

Timc said:


> I also see the word “Aviculariinae” thrown around this site completely wrong fairly often, multiple times in this thread already. It’s a sub family that includes more than just Avics and their close cousins, even a fossorial genus as well. So when I see someone say “All Aviculariinae need good ventilation and a cork slab tilted at 45.634857 degree angle and lots of leaf cover around the top and blah blah blah” well…no. They don’t. Some need lots of dirt to dig in, some make trap doors, some are even OW. Drives me right up a wall.


Usually people say avicularinae (instead of Aviculariinae) when they mean the Caribena, Avic, Ybrapora, Iridopelma, Pachistopelma, Typhochlaena and Antilla.

Idk if it's a misspelling or if it's our hobby word.

Reactions: Like 1


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## KenNet (Jul 27, 2021)

Don't rock the boat. 
Nothing will change, even though we know a lot more now than we did when the dinosaurs walked the earth.


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## RezonantVoid (Jul 27, 2021)

Ungoliant said:


> Counterpoint: I don't use coco/peat moss for my _Idiothele mira_.  I have them on a topsoil/clay mix, which is excellent for maintaining structural integrity of burrows, yet 2/4 of them were slow to burrow.  (They've all burrowed now with proper trapdoors.)


Counter-counterpoint: that's great, I'm glad to see some others are trying to use other substrate methods for such species. But the main point I'm getting at is not necessarily specifically targeted at I.mira housing, its more that I'd love to see much more varied and species specific care being used for all genera. As someone who has dealt with a large number of nearly exclusively fossorials, I've come to observe no 2 genera or species groups will want the exact same soil composition. My 24 hour rule is my way of fine tuning my mixtures until I arrive at one where both I and my spooders are happy. Even clay based mixtures are not always right and sometimes ill have to scrap them and restart (definitely not fun after mixing it up!).

I will also admit that IME, slings of most lid builders I'm aware of do adjust to loose mixes better than adults and eventually refuse to burrow in anything except what they've grown up living in. But I'm not a big fan of reconditioning something to abandon its natural instincts when I know it could be happier and live more naturally in more appropriate substrates.

Reactions: Like 2 | Award 1


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## Timc (Jul 27, 2021)

Edan bandoot said:


> Usually people say avicularinae (instead of Aviculariinae) when they mean the Caribena, Avic, Ybrapora, Iridopelma, Pachistopelma, Typhochlaena and Antilla.
> 
> Idk if it's a misspelling or if it's our hobby word.


Oh it’s super nit picky of me to even care but when I read it I’m like “WhAt AbOuT EpHoBoPuS??” It’s really just a pet peeve.


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## Marlana (Jul 27, 2021)

That supplemental heat is unnecessary and dangerous. For every species, period. That’s just not true. And I think we dumb down humidity too much by saying it’s completely unnecessary and don’t worry about it. I totally understand why but again, it does play a role.



Timc said:


> Oh it’s super nit picky of me to even care but when I read it I’m like “WhAt AbOuT EpHoBoPuS??” It’s really just a pet peeve.


I totally have done this, oops. I think it’s because I mainly keep the arboreal Aviculariinae (which most of them are). So when explaining my ventilation in a typhochlaena enclosure I’ll say ‘ventilation is the same as my other Aviculariinae’. For example.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2


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## Edan bandoot (Jul 27, 2021)

Timc said:


> Oh it’s super nit picky of me to even care but when I read it I’m like “WhAt AbOuT EpHoBoPuS??” It’s really just a pet peeve.


What about Stromatopelma too

Interestingly my ephebopus sling is more arboreal than any of my psalmo or tapi slings, but I hear they become fossorial in adulthood. It would be neat to see some footage of how ephebopus live in the wild

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1


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## Marlana (Jul 27, 2021)

Edan bandoot said:


> What about Stromatopelma too
> 
> Interestingly my ephebopus sling is more arboreal than any of my psalmo or tapi slings, but I hear they become fossorial in adulthood. It would be neat to see some footage of how ephebopus live in the wild


Wait doesn’t psalmo have their own subfamily now? Along with ephebopus?Psalmopoeinae subfamily? Or is that a subfamily of Aviculariinae?


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## Edan bandoot (Jul 27, 2021)

Marlana said:


> Wait doesn’t psalmo have their own subfamily now? Along with ephebopus?Psalmopoeinae subfamily? Or is that a subfamily of Aviculariinae?


Pretty sure it's because they're all genetically closely related to a common ancestor (Stromatopelma?)

But I haven't researched subfamilies very much









						Taxonomic revision and cladistic analysis of Avicularia Lamarck, 1818 (Araneae, Theraphosidae, Aviculariinae) with description of three new aviculariine genera
					

The genus Avicularia Lamarck, 1818 is revised and all species are rediagnosed. The type species, described as Aranea avicularia Linnaeus, 1758, is the oldest mygalomorph species described and its taxonomic history is extensive and confusing. Cladistic analyses using both equal and implied...



					zookeys.pensoft.net
				




You'd want to read this if you're interested, I'm not finished reading it.

Reactions: Like 1 | Thanks 1


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## zeeman (Jul 28, 2021)

Venom1080 said:


> Live is cooler and I don't care.


What is "cooler" about it? If the tarantula's venomous bite killed the prey that'd be one thing, to my knowledge it does not and thus leads to a painful death purely for the sake of your amusement. 

It speaks volumes to take pleasure in an animal's suffering.


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## USNGunner (Jul 28, 2021)

zeeman said:


> What is "cooler" about it? If the tarantula's venomous bite killed the prey that'd be one thing, to my knowledge it does not and thus leads to a painful death purely for the sake of your amusement.
> 
> It speaks volumes to take pleasure in an animal's suffering.


Well, frankly given that roaches eat each other, I'm not completely sympathetic. I do have to say that the stalking and take downs are impressive. And naturalistic. Yes they will forage, but prey wandering into their kill zones is the more typical for a juvenile and adult T I would say.

And that last sentence is a little judgemental don't you think? Not cool.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## YungRasputin (Jul 28, 2021)

may not be a point of disagreement specific to the forum, moreso YouTube but leaving the enclosure’s doors wide open while not actively doing something within the enclosure itself eg: walking to the opposite side of the room, blabbering on about something and so on and so on 

particularly with species like Poecilotheria, M. balfouri, etc which are lightning fast - this is just arrogant negligence born out of misplaced comfortability and i think I can speak for the T’s when I say, were you born in a barn?

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 3


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## USNGunner (Jul 28, 2021)

YungRasputin said:


> may not be a point of disagreement specific to the forum, moreso YouTube but leaving the enclosure’s doors wide open while not actively doing something within the enclosure itself eg: walking to the opposite side of the room, blabbering on about something and so on and so on


Oh yeah, this. I sit there yelling "close the enclosure dumbarse!" But then again I am telling folks "don't open the door, don't do, just run now!" when watching horror movies. 

On one video by the dim room guy, he lost a P. Subfusca.  On another one the T. took of when we went for substrate.  Took him awhile to find that one.

Reactions: Like 1 | Thanks 1


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## jezzy607 (Jul 29, 2021)

Another thing that drives me bonkers, is the continued insistence that Brachypelma, Grammostola, Tliltocatl, and Aphonopelma require dry substrate. Especially when people still think Tliltocatl require dry substrate. Do they tolerate it dry, yes. Does moist substrate kill or stress them? Absolutely NOT.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Award 1


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## Arachnid Addicted (Jul 29, 2021)

The disagreements I had, I've aleady discussed. What I've noticed, though, is that lots of keepers in here (labels like "old timer" or "arachnosupporter", etc., aside) are contraditory. In one post, they something, in other with subject related, they say another thing. Made up your minds, folks.
May the best shoe fits you.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Frogdaddy (Jul 29, 2021)

The devaluation of male specimens.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 7


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## Timc (Jul 29, 2021)

YungRasputin said:


> may not be a point of disagreement specific to the forum, moreso YouTube but leaving the enclosure’s doors wide open while not actively doing something within the enclosure itself eg: walking to the opposite side of the room, blabbering on about something and so on and so on
> 
> particularly with species like Poecilotheria, M. balfouri, etc which are lightning fast - this is just arrogant negligence born out of misplaced comfortability and i think I can speak for the T’s when I say, were you born in a barn?


Couldn’t agree more, my enclosures are open the absolute minimum amount of time. Just long enough to to feed or remove a bolus or molt. It might be over cautious but I have a cat, a dog and a girlfriend; I don’t want any of them meeting my spoods lol.

Reactions: Thanks 1 | Agree 2


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## spideyspinneret78 (Jul 29, 2021)

Timc said:


> Couldn’t agree more, my enclosures are open the absolute minimum amount of time. Just long enough to to feed or remove a bolus or molt. It might be over cautious but I have a cat, a dog and a girlfriend; I don’t want any of them meeting my spoods lol.


I feel you there! Having an OW decide to suddenly make a run for it is not good. My dog is very mischievous and loves to get into things...and chase bugs! Having one of those spiders escape and running loose in the house could be very dangerous for both her and the spider.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Timc (Jul 29, 2021)

spideyspinneret78 said:


> I feel you there! Having an OW decide to suddenly make a run for it is not good. My dog is very mischievous and loves to get into things...and chase bugs! Having one of those spiders escape and running loose in the house could be very dangerous for both her and the spider.


Plus, say it’s just me and the Ts, one bolts and gets out of sight; maybe YouTubeers have time to chase spiders around all those shelves, but I don’t. Lock that jawn up man lol

Reactions: Like 1


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## DomGom TheFather (Jul 29, 2021)

Timc said:


> jawn


I'm starting to get a feel for what part of PA you're from.

Reactions: Funny 5


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## Timc (Jul 29, 2021)

DomGom TheFather said:


> I'm starting to get a feel for what part of PA you're from.


Literally laughed my ass off.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Scp682 (Jul 29, 2021)

viper69 said:


> ???
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ur just gonna pretend bearded dragons don't exist ok


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## gothmoth (Jul 30, 2021)

Just here to say I'm loving this thread and I hope more people contribute! Been keeping various inverts for 2-3 years now and I'm still not sure what I'm doing sometimes, so I'm loving this! Also seeing you all debunk various things I believed religiously as a newbie a few years ago is refreshing. if I hear one more person yell at me, telling me I'm killing my old man curly hair when i mist the foliage in his enclosure, I'll scream!
(he had a water dish for a while, but seemed to only come out to drink when i misted the leaves so, the old man gets what the old man wants)

Reactions: Like 2


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## Salmonsaladsandwich (Jul 30, 2021)

Re. feeding tarantulas vertebrate prey:

_G. actaeon_ shows some signs of being a specialized vertebrate-eater, since wild specimens ignore insects in favor of frogs and snakes:



			https://bioone.org/journals/the-journal-of-arachnology/volume-49/issue-1/JoA-S-20-050/Spiders-Arachnida-Araneae-feeding-on-snakes-Reptilia-Squamata/10.1636/JoA-S-20-050.full
		


"_In laboratory feeding experiments conducted in Brazil, the large tarantula Grammostola actaeon refused to eat insects offered to it (Emerton 1926). Thereafter, small snakes and frogs were offered to the spiders, and those were readily consumed (Emerton 1926). As a result of Emerton's report, this tarantula species has been implied in several books to be a specialized predator of snakes and frogs (Berland 1932; Millot 1949; Gertsch 1979; Hillyard 1994). In light of newer information, the characterization of this tarantula species as a specialized snake- and frog-eater must be somewhat relativized. Contrary to Emerton's experiences, Ibler et al. (2013) were able to rear Grammostola actaeon on a diet of crickets, which shows that this species apparently has a broader diet than previously assumed._"

I'm not a huge fan of unnecessarily live feeding vertebrates to things, but it makes you wonder if some tarantulas would grow bigger/faster or be healthier if fed living or dead vertebrate prey regularly.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 3


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## viper69 (Jul 30, 2021)

Scp682 said:


> Ur just gonna pretend bearded dragons don't exist ok


???


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## RevS (Jul 30, 2021)

Things I disagree with:
- This species requires bone dry substrate (extra disagree if followed by "even as a sling"),
- general hatered or at least dismissal towards all other sources of information besides this page (often in a form of threads in line with "So I went to X and watched/read for a bit" - I can guess what's inside those threads without looking),
- water dishes are mandatory and misting is bad/unnecessary (yeah - I use water dishes in my adult enclosures and they help especially when there's a live plant in the setup but I am yet to see a spider drink from it after 2 years but I've seen my spiders drink droplets that from after misting on numerous occasions and my P.cambridgei seems to "enjoy" a little "rain" and sometimes comes out from the hide while I'm misting but primarly I wet one side of the substrate)

Feel free to dislike

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


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## The Grym Reaper (Jul 30, 2021)

Arthroverts said:


> Time to start your own line of clay-based tarantula substrate RezonantVoid and beat Zoomed with its Eco-Earth at its own game, ha ha.


Just get any loamy topsoil from your local garden centre 



Timc said:


> It’s a sub family that includes more than just Avics and their close cousins, even a fossorial genus as well.


Nope, it literally just contains Avics and their close cousins now.



Timc said:


> Oh it’s super nit picky of me to even care but when I read it I’m like “WhAt AbOuT EpHoBoPuS??” It’s really just a pet peeve.


Ephebopus were placed in the Psalmopoeinae subfamily when Tapinauchenius last got a revision.



Edan bandoot said:


> What about Stromatopelma too


Stromatopelminae subfamily along with Heteroscodra.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


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## Edan bandoot (Jul 30, 2021)

The Grym Reaper said:


> Just get any loamy topsoil from your local garden centre
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I thought encyocratella got moved


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## Frogdaddy (Jul 30, 2021)

RevS said:


> - general hatered or at least dismissal towards all other sources of information besides this page (often in a form of threads in line with "So I went to X and watched/read for a bit" - I can guess what's inside those threads without looking)


I get where you're going with this but I disagree. Many posters here often cite Tom Moran or Dave's Little Beasties or even academic publications as a reliable source of information. I think what you're seeing as that AB members are more knowledgeable than the average invert keeper and are therefore quick to recognize and point out bad info such as what comes from Exotics Lair or Dark Den.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## The Grym Reaper (Jul 30, 2021)

Edan bandoot said:


> I thought encyocratella got moved


Assuming that Encyocratella is currently Chaetopelma then it's actually in Ischnocolinae, my bad.


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## RevS (Jul 30, 2021)

Frogdaddy said:


> I get where you're going with this but I disagree. Many posters here often cite Tom Moran or Dave's Little Beasties or even academic publications as a reliable source of information. I think what you're seeing as that AB members are more knowledgeable than the average invert keeper and are therefore quick to recognize and point out bad info such as what comes from Exotics Lair or Dark Den.


While yes - Tom Moran and Dave's Little Beasties are often given examples of good media I'll still hold to my point.
I didn't watch much of DLB videos yet but Tom Moran himself admitted he's made mistakes and provided incorrect information - something other content creators also admit but are never credited for out here but instead quoted on those mistakes from years before (since you've mentioned Dark Den - his idea to breed different forms of T.albopilosus is often quoted but the fact that he never did so and acknowledged his ignorance when even considering this is always ignored).
On other occassions I've seen threads mentioning other tarantula keeper communities (some of which I am also a part of and thus know that often they reference ab as a great place) that blew out of proportion claiming how bad those are.
It's gotten to the point where people like Dave (who is actually recommended here) must go out of his way to adress the toxicity within the community - hence why I called it "hatered".

Yes - good points can be made on what is done incorrectly using other sources as examples but at this point 90% of what I see in tohse threads is along the lines of "it's just bad because it is". This is not a meaningful discussion and is not helping anyone. Make a point or don't add to the pile (this is not to you - but the threads of this kind).

Reactions: Like 2


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## HeartBum (Jul 30, 2021)

RevS said:


> It's gotten to the point where people like Dave (who is actually recommended here) must go out of his way to adress the toxicity within the community - hence why I called it "hatered".


Yeaaaah but the odd couple of individuals who were commenting on other creator's content just to promote Dave and degrade them were a few bad eggs and simply disrespectful. It wasn't a blanket statement towards the community as there was a trend of nasty, extremely similar comments being posted. Hopefully someone young who didn't fully comprehend what they were doing and how it was making Dave actually look bad, which is completely unfair of course. 

I would very much like Dave to adopt me as his granddaughter however.


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## AphonopelmaTX (Jul 30, 2021)

The Grym Reaper said:


> Assuming that Encyocratella is currently Chaetopelma then it's actually in Ischnocolinae, my bad.


I don't understand. Why would anyone assume a synonym of the genus Encyocratella with Chaetopelma?  Encyocratella is a monotypic genus in the subfamily Stromatopelminae known only from Tanzania.  One defining generic character being it doesn't have spermathecae.


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## The Grym Reaper (Jul 30, 2021)

AphonopelmaTX said:


> I don't understand. Why would anyone assume a synonym of the genus Encyocratella with Chaetopelma? Encyocratella is a monotypic genus in the subfamily Stromatopelminae known only from Tanzania. One defining generic character being it doesn't have spermathecae.


I mentioned in an earlier post that Encyocratella was in Stromatopelminae and then was asked if it was moved (which I wasn't sure about). Tbh, I don't have any interest in either and only did a brief search on them to check subfamilies after being questioned if the former had been moved. In any case, the original point about the genera contained within the Aviculariinae subfamily (which is what I was commenting on in the first place) is correct and was the only thing I was really arsed about.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Venom1080 (Jul 30, 2021)

zeeman said:


> What is "cooler" about it? If the tarantula's venomous bite killed the prey that'd be one thing, to my knowledge it does not and thus leads to a painful death purely for the sake of your amusement.
> 
> It speaks volumes to take pleasure in an animal's suffering.


I take pleasure in watching nature do as nature does. Suffering is a part of nature. It happens. Oh well. 

They die pretty quick anyway.


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## spideyspinneret78 (Jul 30, 2021)

Venom1080 said:


> I take pleasure in watching nature do as nature does. Suffering is a part of nature. It happens. Oh well.
> 
> They die pretty quick anyway.


I understand where you are coming from. Honestly I believe that a lot of people in the modern age have a sort of disconnect with certain aspects of nature. It's not all smiles and roses.... it's the circle of life.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2


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## l4nsky (Jul 30, 2021)

AphonopelmaTX said:


> I don't understand. Why would anyone assume a synonym of the genus Encyocratella with Chaetopelma?  Encyocratella is a monotypic genus in the subfamily Stromatopelminae known only from Tanzania.  One defining generic character being it doesn't have spermathecae.


Out of curiosity, is their a method to sex them before maturity?


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## AphonopelmaTX (Jul 30, 2021)

l4nsky said:


> Out of curiosity, is their a method to sex them before maturity?


Sure there is.  In species that don't have a spermatheca, you look for the uterus externus.  It would be much harder to see in small juvies or spiderlings, but it is there.

Reactions: Thanks 1 | Informative 1


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## Rigor Mortis (Jul 31, 2021)

jezzy607 said:


> Another thing that drives me bonkers, is the continued insistence that Brachypelma, Grammostola, Tliltocatl, and Aphonopelma require dry substrate. Especially when people still think Tliltocatl require dry substrate. Do they tolerate it dry, yes. Does moist substrate kill or stress them? Absolutely NOT.


I always say you should try to see what your spider likes. Tried moistened substrate with my T. albo and he hated it. Would always gravitate towards the dry spots and wouldn’t go over to the other side until it had dried out. Same with my A. chalcodes, she hates wet sub. But I know there are plenty of other specimens in those species who have no issue with it.


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## Terrovax (Aug 12, 2021)

Tarantula Facebook groups are actually not bad. You can learn a lot from them.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Disagree 4


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## Dorifto (Aug 12, 2021)

Terrovax said:


> Tarantula Facebook groups are actually not bad. You can learn a lot from them.


I'm at tarantulas Uk, and people can be really stupid. There are more disinformation post than really good ones. Last one, one guy keeping a LP in a arboreal enclosure, I told him that that wasn't a propper enclosure for a terrestrial. His response: my LP stays a lot in the glass. I told him that that means that something is wrong with the substrate or that the T don't feel right in that enclosure, also I told him that giving so much heigh can be deadly if the T falls... His answer, I'm going to glue some cork bark in spiral to allow him to climb... And people telling him that was genius... Solving a problem adding more problems....

Also I check his account, and found that he was keeping a pokie in a terrestrial enclosure... What did he do after telling him that that was wrong? Instead of using the LP arboreal enclosure, he bought another arboreal one.....

Also he blocked me and deleted the post... A week after posted a video of the enclosures, the pokie's enclosure full of mold...

Reactions: Like 1 | Wow 2


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## Terrovax (Aug 12, 2021)

Dorifto said:


> I'm at tarantulas Uk, and people can be really stupid. There are more disinformation post than really good ones. Last one, one guy keeping a LP in a arboreal enclosure, I told him that that wasn't a propper enclosure for a terrestrial. His response: my LP stays a lot in the glass. I told him that that means that something is wrong with the substrate or that the T don't feel right in that enclosure, also I told him that giving so much heigh can be deadly if the T falls... His answer, I'm going to glue some cork bark in spiral to allow him to climb... And people telling him that was genius... Solving a problem adding more problems....
> 
> Also I check his account, and found that he was keeping a pokie in a terrestrial enclosure... What did he do after telling him that that was wrong? Instead of using the LP arboreal enclosure, he bought another arboreal one.....
> 
> Also he blocked me and deleted the post... A week after posted a video of the enclosures, the pokie's enclosure full of mold...


Yeah, you're bound to see that type of content in some of the more hobby-focused groups. Even then I'd say it would really depend on the group itself, its rules, and if those rules are enforced. I know if that person posted in the groups I'm more active in, he'd get a lot of backlash and criticism for his setups. People who refuse to take this feedback, and double down on their bad husbandry are then laughed at lol. You can't help anyone who doesn't want it. I also should've been more specific, since I was mainly referring to the groups and pages that are more science or taxonomy focused.

Through these groups/pages, I was able to learn what new species are currently being described, what genera are being revised, and interesting facts and info. I've seen several pictures and videos of very obscure species posted to FB that aren't posted about anywhere else. I am even able to talk/directly interact with legit researchers through these groups and pages. Another big plus is that I've made some nice friends 

One group I'm in is just dedicated for people to post pictures and videos of tarantulas living in the wild. I probably don't need to say more about that lol. It's probably my favourite group yet.

Another group I'm in is dedicated to giving people updates on the latest advancements in Theraphosidae research. It was actually through this group that I was able to learn that the new genus, _Antikuna_, was described before I did my daily WSC check lol.

I can easily say that all tarantula Youtube content is horrible. Whether it be feeding live tarantulas to animals (like bullfrogs), pouring coca cola and mentos down their burrows to draw them out, using live specimens in prank videos, making tarantulas "fight" other inverts (scorpions, centipedes, etc.), vilifying them, abusing them for views, or just straight up horrible care videos, then yes, it's very easy for me to dismiss all tarantula Youtube content as being terrible. All of the aforementioned types of tarantula videos are typically the most viral videos of these animals. However, this type of black and white thinking isn't fair to the ACTUALLY GOOD tarantula content creators on Youtube. Most of these "facebook bad" people would be the first ones to praise channels like Tom Moran, birdspidersCH, Dave's Little Beasties, Tarantupedia, bugsnstuff, lovetarantulas, and World of Spiders, etc.

It really just comes down to finding those good groups and pages imo. One group I was in allowed people to put spiders on their face (group got shut down later), while the groups I was more active in did not allow such type of posts. If most of these "facebook bad" people are able to filter the 99% of horrible tarantula content out there on sites like Youtube, then it can surely be done on Facebook. However, I can definitely see why people don't like to use facebook (privacy issues), but that doesn't necessarily speak out against the type of tarantula content posted onto the site itself.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Disagree 1


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## grumpycow3 (Aug 12, 2021)

That keeping Ts is easy (at least to start off)

Being pretty new to being seriously in the hobby it's difficult to retain information from most places because a lot of it is so contradictory, I guess it speaks to the adaptability of Ts and the variance from specimen to specimen but it makes having a benchmark to start from daunting (obviously some species are easier, I'm not a total numbskull)

Reactions: Funny 2


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## DomGom TheFather (Aug 12, 2021)

grumpycow3 said:


> That keeping Ts is easy (at least to start off)


So easy it's stupid.
I have cactuses that demand more from me.
I understand that for a new keeper it can be daunting and a bit nerve-racking with all the contradictory information out there but if you follow the lead of experienced keepers, you'll find the groove. They're amazingly simple animals and the KISS method is the best advice for anyone entering the hobby.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 6


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## Frogdaddy (Aug 12, 2021)

So you yourself think Tom Moran and DLB is bad? Right?

There is a reason why is FB Bad people can wade through YouTube. I know the creators I want to watch and the ones I don't want to watch. I can go right to what I want to see. 
With FB I have to scroll through hundreds of irrelevant posts with handling pics, vertebrate feeding, improper enclosures, to find something that maybe interests me. Why even bother to slosh through the sewer that is FB?

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Disagree 1 | Award 1


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## grumpycow3 (Aug 12, 2021)

DomGom TheFather said:


> So easy it's stupid.
> I have cactuses that demand more from me.
> I understand that for a new keeper it can be daunting and a bit nerve-racking with all the contradictory information out there but if you follow the lead of experienced keepers, you'll find the groove. They're amazingly simple animals and the KISS method is the best advice for anyone entering the hobby.


Yeah, I'm think I worded it weird sorry, I mean that the abundance of different information can be daunting so it's harder to get started off than some would make it seem.

The boards and Toms big spiders are where I get my info since I tend to get anxious with too much info and so far I've not made too bad mistakes after my <edit> up a couple years ago.


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## Terrovax (Aug 12, 2021)

Frogdaddy said:


> So you yourself think Tom Moran and DLB is bad? Right?
> 
> There is a reason why is FB Bad people can wade through YouTube. I know the creators I want to watch and the ones I don't want to watch. I can go right to what I want to see.
> With FB I have to scroll through hundreds of irrelevant posts with handling pics, vertebrate feeding, improper enclosures, to find something that maybe interests me. Why even bother to slosh through the sewer that is FB?


I never said Tom Moran and DLB are bad channels? I was making a point that good content creators (like them) should not be lumped in with 99% of horrible tarantula content on the site. Just like how YOU know the Youtube creators that YOU want to watch or not, I also know what Facebook pages/groups that I like to join and don't. Just like how you can brush off tarantula content on FB as being all bad, I can easily do the same for the Youtube side of tarantula content. I have to go through terrible videos titled "LIVE TARANTULA PRANK ON GIRLFRIEND!!! (GONE WRONG)", or "GIANT BIRD EATER TARANTULA VS SCORPION/CENTIPEDE/LIZARD!", to get to the actual good stuff. But I don't absolutely generalize, because it's not fair for those actually good content creators. There needs to be some nuance.

I've already listed my reasons why I use FB. Also, not all Facebook tarantula groups are hobby-focused. I've already given a few examples that are hardly as such.

Reactions: Like 2


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## AlbaArachnids92 (Aug 13, 2021)

Dorifto said:


> I'm at tarantulas Uk, and people can be really stupid. There are more disinformation post than really good ones. Last one, one guy keeping a LP in a arboreal enclosure, I told him that that wasn't a propper enclosure for a terrestrial. His response: my LP stays a lot in the glass. I told him that that means that something is wrong with the substrate or that the T don't feel right in that enclosure, also I told him that giving so much heigh can be deadly if the T falls... His answer, I'm going to glue some cork bark in spiral to allow him to climb... And people telling him that was genius... Solving a problem adding more problems....
> 
> Also I check his account, and found that he was keeping a pokie in a terrestrial enclosure... What did he do after telling him that that was wrong? Instead of using the LP arboreal enclosure, he bought another arboreal one.....
> 
> Also he blocked me and deleted the post... A week after posted a video of the enclosures, the pokie's enclosure full of mold...


Also a member of the above page.........my personal favorite recently was the G. pulchra that ended up in the same enclosure as a M. balfouri, asking if it was ok to keep them together. First reply "if they aren't fighting, yes" 
Even worse, couldn't catch the M. balfouri as it was too fast........owns a communal of M. balfouri!

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2 | Wow 1


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## Frogdaddy (Aug 13, 2021)

AlbaArachnids92 said:


> Also a member of the above page.........my personal favorite recently was the G. pulchra that ended up in the same enclosure as a M. balfouri, asking if it was ok to keep them together. First reply "if they aren't fighting, yes"
> Even worse, couldn't catch the M. balfouri as it was too fast........owns a communal of M. balfouri!


If that isn't proof of the intelligence level of FB I don't know what is.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## HeartBum (Aug 13, 2021)

@DomGom TheFather What's the KISS method? Give 'em a little kissy-kiss every night before bed and they'll be happy?

Reactions: Funny 3


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## ConstantSorrow (Aug 13, 2021)

HeartBum said:


> @DomGom TheFather What's the KISS method? Give 'em a little kissy-kiss every night before bed and they'll be happy?


I've always heard that to mean "Keep It Simple, Stupid".

Reactions: Agree 3 | Funny 2 | Helpful 1 | Useful 1 | Award 1


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## Timc (Aug 13, 2021)

The Grym Reaper said:


> Just get any loamy topsoil from your local garden centre
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you. I haven’t read a paper in at least three years and this is all news to me. Appreciate the correction!



AlbaArachnids92 said:


> Also a member of the above page.........my personal favorite recently was the G. pulchra that ended up in the same enclosure as a M. balfouri, asking if it was ok to keep them together. First reply "if they aren't fighting, yes"
> Even worse, couldn't catch the M. balfouri as it was too fast........owns a communal of M. balfouri!


Yo…I’m kinda mad about this. That’s out and out animal abuse, irresponsibility, and downright stupidity. How the hell do your PREDATORY pets end up together?!? If you want to be stupid and wasteful, please don’t do it with animals. They’ve done nothing to deserve that. Go  start smoking or something that only hurts yourself.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## Wolfram1 (Aug 14, 2021)

"3 word answers"

People making their incredible pictures invisible to non followers, or hiding profiles altogether (is there any real reason for that?), 
i don't care were people live or how they are called but including a list of all the species they keep in the profile information is good practice!

Also if experienced keepers hide their media how am i supposed to find a reference for sexing certain species etc. its annoying.

over-generalisation, toxicity towards external sources of information, divisiveness, rudeness, not enough nuances (i hate Facebook too but there are a lot of experienced People that use nether ABS nor Facebook or other social media sites)

it is hard to word titles/posts in a way that enables deeper discussions about topics i want to initiate real exchanges of personal experiences on

common names in general

Reactions: Like 1


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## AlbaArachnids92 (Aug 14, 2021)

Timc said:


> Yo…I’m kinda mad about this. That’s out and out animal abuse, irresponsibility, and downright stupidity. How the hell do your PREDATORY pets end up together?!? If you want to be stupid and wasteful, please don’t do it with animals. They’ve done nothing to deserve that. Go  start smoking or something that only hurts yourself.



Bought second hand tank and corkbark and neither the seller or buyer noticed the stow away M. balfouri in the corkbark!

Reactions: Funny 4 | Wow 3


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## jezzy607 (Aug 18, 2021)

I gave up on FB groups too. The responses to "Can you ID this tarantula" were cringeworthy, especially for wild North American ones. Photo from California, with 50 comments of "That's A. chalcodes", or a black tarantula with red abdomen in the mountains of Arizona..."That's a T. vagans". When you try to correct people you are an arrogant elitist jerk lol. The final straw was when the very famous FB group warned me and deleted my comment because I suggested that people refrain from buying wc A. chalcodes (and listed several reasons why).

Reactions: Agree 2


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## AlbaArachnids92 (Aug 18, 2021)

jezzy607 said:


> I gave up on FB groups too. The responses to "Can you ID this tarantula" were cringeworthy, especially for wild North American ones. Photo from California, with 50 comments of "That's A. chalcodes", or a black tarantula with red abdomen in the mountains of Arizona..."That's a T. vagans". When you try to correct people you are an arrogant elitist jerk lol. The final straw was when the very famous FB group warned me and deleted my comment because I suggested that people refrain from buying wc A. chalcodes (and listed several reasons why).


Can someone sex this? *insert picture of carapace* 

Only reason I'm still on some of them is to help where I can (I'm still a novice really) and to get a giggle out some of the ridiculousness

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1


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## DomGom TheFather (Aug 18, 2021)

Cuckbook is a collection of echo chambers where censorship runs wild.
No thanks.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Dorifto (Aug 18, 2021)

Yesterday had a "discussion" on FB because an known enclosure seller sold her a terrestrial enclosure for a pokie...

My first recomendation was to remove substrate and to not to place the cork bark tube in the middle right to the top, in a top lid enclosure, like she wanted... to prevent any bolt, bite etc... Because she filled the enclosure with substrate almost to the middle .. Her answer... They like big spaces, and hides, (seller told her the enclosure was fine...  40x40...)so you should better learn and don't tell anything if you don't know about hides... To get an idea, the cork bark she has was smaller than the pokie... Told me that after suggesting her to use some of the fake plants she had available from a frog tank to add more foliage at least... I showed her my enclosures with all the hides available, game over  Blocked me or erased the post. 

Another guy... Asking why the geniculatas have so much problems with molts, because he had some deaths and problems... I looked in his photos... Keeping them bone dry, level god, even the fire is more humid... I suggest him to keep them moist, because they are moisture dependant tropical species,  his answer: a meme saying good, good, good, good... Same, blocked me or erased the post...

I can't understand so much arrogance on those people even when they are asking for help...

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## spideyspinneret78 (Aug 18, 2021)

Dorifto said:


> Yesterday had a "discussion" on FB because an known enclosure seller sold her a terrestrial enclosure for a pokie...
> 
> My first recomendation was to remove substrate and to not to place the cork bark tube in the middle right to the top, in a top lid enclosure, like she wanted... to prevent any bolt, bite etc... Because she filled the enclosure with substrate almost to the middle .. Her answer... They like big spaces, and hides, (seller told her the enclosure was fine...  40x40...)so you should better learn and don't tell anything if you don't know about hides... To get an idea, the cork bark she has was smaller than the pokie... Told me that after suggesting her to use some of the fake plants she had available from a frog tank to add more foliage at least... I showed her my enclosures with all the hides available, game over  Blocked me or erased the post.
> 
> ...


In many cases, I don't think that these sort of people are even asking more help. More like...they're asking for affirmation. Of course I try to offer help to anyone that asks for it, but sometimes you'll get a few turds in the mix that get offended easily.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Dorifto (Aug 18, 2021)

spideyspinneret78 said:


> More like...they're asking for affirmation


1000% agree. The problem is that they retrofeed each other...


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## Seemannnni (Aug 19, 2021)

DomGom TheFather said:


> Cuckbook is a collection of echo chambers where censorship runs wild.
> No thanks.


go to the watering hole...

I'll bite. Ladder system is a bit of a joke. Yes - previous experience is certainly beneficial, however, a well researched individual can handle any species that they want at nearly any point in their hobby career. All it takes is education and habits that are easily attainable through said education such as catch cups, ample preparation, etc. etc.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Stardust1986 (Aug 19, 2021)

mantisfan101 said:


> Occasional handling is fine
> View attachment 393081
> 
> View attachment 393082


I knew that would get a lot of responses Lol, I just feel people shouldnt expect keeping perfection to occur immediately, it's a learning process : )


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## DomGom TheFather (Aug 19, 2021)

Seemannnni said:


> go to the watering hole...


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## spideyspinneret78 (Aug 19, 2021)

Seemannnni said:


> go to the watering hole...
> 
> I'll bite. Ladder system is a bit of a joke. Yes - previous experience is certainly beneficial, however, a well researched individual can handle any species that they want at nearly any point in their hobby career. All it takes is education and habits that are easily attainable through said education such as catch cups, ample preparation, etc. etc.


To an extent, I agree. For example, a lot of people may seriously disagree with me, but I think that for the right person, a P. murinus could be a good starter species. The key is for the right person. Probably not for the average person though. And there are some species that are really not the best choice for any beginner who has zero experience with spiders. Something like a S. calceatum or P. ornata. The ladder system might be a good guideline, but I think that people should do what they personally feel comfortable with. If they are willing to do the research, ask important questions, etc. then more power to them. We also don't exactly know who we're talking to online. It could be a 14 year old kid who's never had a pet before for all we know. So I think a lot of us take the cautious approach.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## darkness975 (Aug 19, 2021)

VaporRyder said:


> Screen lids too, I’ve had a few spiders (arboreal and terrestrial) in unmodified Exo Terras without drama.

Reactions: Like 1 | Sad 2 | Thinking 1


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## AlbaArachnids92 (Aug 20, 2021)

Seemannnni said:


> I'll bite. Ladder system is a bit of a joke. Yes - previous experience is certainly beneficial, however, a well researched individual can handle any species that they want at nearly any point in their hobby career. All it takes is education and habits that are easily attainable through said education such as catch cups, ample preparation, etc. etc.


Again, I have to hold my hands up and admit I went full send when starting out. Although I had little hands on (hands off more like) experience with T's, I spent literal YEARS doing my research.
Originally through YouTube, Dark Den was the first channel I came across. Then once my interest was sparked, I would be on Google checking out the species I would see and learn more about their husbandry.
After I found this forum I really began to deep dive ALL the info I could gather and set out grabbing all the things I would need.

I'm prepared for rehousing, spot cleaning and caring for ALL of my T's. I'm aware of the potential risk and plan accordingly, treating every last one as if it's a potent/lightening quick OW.

Having said that, I have seen soooooo many people who grab T's and have not a clue how to do even the most basic things!


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## Rigor Mortis (Aug 20, 2021)

Seemannnni said:


> I'll bite. Ladder system is a bit of a joke. Yes - previous experience is certainly beneficial, however, a well researched individual can handle any species that they want at nearly any point in their hobby career. All it takes is education and habits that are easily attainable through said education such as catch cups, ample preparation, etc. etc.


While I partially agree with you, I feel like hardly any newbie actually DOES enough research to properly have a species commonly regarded as an “advanced” species to keep. Most new keepers getting an OBT or a P. metallica flock here because they have no earthly idea what they’re doing and it goes to the tune of “hi I’m new to spiders and I got an orange baboon tarantula he is 1 year old (that’s what the guy at the pet store told me) and he is very aggressive when I try to hold him? Should I be nicer to him? I don’t know what to do with him plz help [photo of a 10 gallon enclosure for a 2” spider with half an inch of substrate and a ceramic skull inside]” 

So yeah. While I agree with you that with enough research and an understanding of the animal you’re getting, ideally you can care for anything. But not enough new keepers do adequate research on the most BASIC of species. I have no faith in people to suddenly start doing research en masse.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


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## starlight_kitsune (Aug 20, 2021)

Terrovax said:


> Tarantula Facebook groups are actually not bad. You can learn a lot from them.


I mean... you can learn a lot of what NOT to do...
I lurk in a lot of tarantula groups, only regularly active in one on FB. Notable examples of bad posts in just the past two weeks from FB groups include someone planning an OBT communal as their first ever tarantula keeping experience, someone else keeping their tarantula in a literal 20 gallon filled with candy and trash think Hoarders arachnid edition, and a T. blondi in a VERY tall enclosure with literally no substrate. Plus the rampant recommendations to toss spiders in ICUs for every little thing and that every odd movement is DKS.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 2 | Wow 2


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## VaporRyder (Aug 20, 2021)

I laugh, but it’s really not funny!

Reactions: Agree 2


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## starlight_kitsune (Aug 20, 2021)

VaporRyder said:


> I laugh, but it’s really not funny!


I mean it's a little funny in that "omg, seriously?" way.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## AlbaArachnids92 (Aug 20, 2021)

starlight_kitsune said:


> I mean it's a little funny in that "omg, seriously?" way.


I have just this minute seen someone get a sling...grow it out to a MM and is only now asking about husbandry!!

Reactions: Funny 1 | Wow 1


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## YungRasputin (Aug 20, 2021)

critical support for the ladder system insomuch as inexperienced keepers lack relevant muscle memory - you can read all you want about something but this is much different than actually *doing* the something - with certain species the stakes can be p high irrespective of known tarantula venoms not being lethal

personally, I love the idea of starting with a pseudo-pokie (P. Irminia) to cut my arboreal teeth on before taking that step - to me it’s not about just “surviving” - you should love taking care of your specimens and be comfortable in doing what you need to do, otherwise, how will they receive the best care?

also idk if I’ve said this already but pet holes are righteous

Reactions: Like 2 | Thanks 1 | Agree 2


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## Uial (Aug 21, 2021)

I keep my T's in bigger enclosures then what seems to be the norm here. Some don't need it, but others like to take a stroll some days. I also enjoy seeing them hunt a bit. I just feel like they should have room to walk and explore since they are stuck in boxes all their lives. That said, I'm not a breeder, nor do I have a big collection, so I have time to keep a closer eye on all of them and make sure they have actually found and eaten the prey.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 3


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## l4nsky (Aug 21, 2021)

spideyspinneret78 said:


> To an extent, I agree. For example, a lot of people may seriously disagree with me, but I think that for the right person, a P. murinus could be a good starter species. The key is for the right person. Probably not for the average person though. And there are some species that are really not the best choice for any beginner who has zero experience with spiders. Something like a S. calceatum or P. ornata. The ladder system might be a good guideline, but I think that people should do what they personally feel comfortable with. If they are willing to do the research, ask important questions, etc. then more power to them. We also don't exactly know who we're talking to online. It could be a 14 year old kid who's never had a pet before for all we know. So I think a lot of us take the cautious approach.


I can agree with this. I started with a Scolopendra dehaani and then a little Pelinobius muticus. It wasn't because I was cocky, but because I've been preparing for eventually keeping hot snakes and I would purposefully treat every animal I caught while field herping or every animal handled as potentially deadly. At the point that I bought the dehaani, I hadn't been tagged by anything in 2 years (baby GTP nicked me after quite a few attempts), so I both knew what I was getting into and had experience with some very ornery animals.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## KenNet (Aug 21, 2021)

Personality of the keeper is more important than experience.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Thinking 1


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## spideyspinneret78 (Aug 21, 2021)

l4nsky said:


> I can agree with this. I started with a Scolopendra dehaani and then a little Pelinobius muticus. It wasn't because I was cocky, but because I've been preparing for eventually keeping hot snakes and I would purposefully treat every animal I caught while field herping or every animal handled as potentially deadly. At the point that I bought the dehaani, I hadn't been tagged by anything in 2 years (baby GTP nicked me after quite a few attempts), so I both knew what I was getting into and had experience with some very ornery animals.


Kind of similar for me too. I did start out with some beginner species, but started keeping OWs within a few months. However, before getting tarantulas I had worked as a zookeeper for 10 years and had dealt with venomous animals before. Every person's background is different.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Dorifto (Aug 22, 2021)

Today in faceturd a guy keeping a pumpkin patch literally floating in water... 55 views and nobody says nothing...

Waiting his answer...

Reactions: Sad 1 | Wow 1


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## Edan bandoot (Aug 22, 2021)

Dorifto said:


> Today in faceturd a guy keeping a pumpkin patch literally floating in water... 55 views and nobody says nothing...
> 
> Waiting his answer...


Care to explain more?


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## Dorifto (Aug 22, 2021)

Edan bandoot said:


> Care to explain more?


Literally a guy keeping a Hapalopus in a substrate full of water... Not moist, nor wet, nor damp, in a pond...

Obviously I couldn't resist to write him, that he doesn't need to water the T like a real pumpkin


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## Jonathan6303 (Aug 25, 2021)

What does everybody think about sexing your tarantula through not molt(when holding it). Personally I think it’s unnecessary. Just take a pic when it climbs the side of the inclosure. Better the squeezing your tarantulas side.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Ungoliant (Aug 26, 2021)

Jonathan6303 said:


> What does everybody think about sexing your tarantula through not molt(when holding it). Personally I think it’s unnecessary. Just take a pic when it climbs the side of the inclosure. Better the squeezing your tarantulas side.


I would be afraid to hurt the tarantula while trying to grab it or worried that it might escape.  Some species have medically significant venom, nasty urticating hairs, and/or a temperament that makes them unsuitable for handling.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## HeartBum (Aug 26, 2021)

Jonathan6303 said:


> What does everybody think about sexing your tarantula through not molt(when holding it). Personally I think it’s unnecessary. Just take a pic when it climbs the side of the inclosure. Better the squeezing your tarantulas side.


Saw a post on the book of face a while ago, someone death-gripping their T, just for others to attempt to ventrally sex it. Not only is it an unreliable method, I agree that it is unnecessary. But of course everyone defended the OP and said it's "really common" to do that... Doesn't make it right though.

Reactions: Like 2


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## The Grym Reaper (Aug 26, 2021)

Jonathan6303 said:


> What does everybody think about sexing your tarantula through not molt(when holding it). Personally I think it’s unnecessary. Just take a pic when it climbs the side of the inclosure. Better the squeezing your tarantulas side.


Pinch-grabbing is handling, and handling is generally frowned upon here.

Personally, I don't see any need to pinch-grab in order to get shots for vent sexing, you can either get a shot of the tarantula if/when you spot it on the side of the enclosure or get it into a clear catch cup and then take as many ventral shots as you need.



HeartBum said:


> Not only is it an unreliable method


If you're referring to ventral sexing being unreliable then know that any method of sexing is only as reliable as the person attempting it.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2


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## Jonathan6303 (Aug 26, 2021)

What does everyone think about cross breeding. Personally I think no in big letters. NO!!!!!!


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## KenNet (Aug 26, 2021)

Jonathan6303 said:


> What does everyone think about cross breeding. Personally I think no in big letters. NO!!!!!!


Why?


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## Wolfram1 (Aug 26, 2021)

I thought this tread was to tell others what *you* disagree with, not asking about widely agreed upon consensus

Reactions: Agree 1


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## spideyspinneret78 (Aug 26, 2021)

Yeah. I don't get why people feel the need to do this (pinch grabbing tarantulas for ventral sexing). Unnecessary stress and risk for both the keeper and the tarantula.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## YungRasputin (Aug 27, 2021)

not specifically about opinions on AB but within the hobby more generally:

-intentionally under feeding fossorials so they’ll stay at the mouth of the burrow more so the keeper can see them more often

-intentionally providing fossorials smaller amounts of substrate than what is actually appropriate for the species so they’ll web up the enclosure instead - which doesn’t benefit the spider in anyway and just stresses them out


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## Edan bandoot (Aug 27, 2021)

YungRasputin said:


> not specifically about opinions on AB but within the hobby more generally:
> 
> -intentionally under feeding fossorials so they’ll stay at the mouth of the burrow more so the keeper can see them more often
> 
> -intentionally providing fossorials smaller amounts of substrate than what is actually appropriate for the species so they’ll web up the enclosure instead - which doesn’t benefit the spider in anyway and just stresses them out


I think the Hobby's concept of "underfeeding" is stupid, they're built to go long periods without food and regularly go months without food in the wild.

I personally consider what we do in the hobby to be analogous to powerfeeding.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Love 1


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## YungRasputin (Aug 27, 2021)

Edan bandoot said:


> I think the Hobby's concept of "underfeeding" is stupid, they're built to go long periods without food and regularly go months without food in the wild.
> 
> I personally consider what we do in the hobby to be analogous to powerfeeding.


i am against over feeding just as much i am under feeding insomuch as with all things in the hobby i think balance is key

it’s a really easy thing to regulate given that you can see when a scorpion or spider is looking a bit too plump or a bit too thin and from there you can adjust feedings accordingly (also why it’s helpful to keep a notebook for these things and log things in)

with this being said I would also say that it’s not like they won’t kill what they don’t want to eat anyway - so provided people adhere to an appropriate feeding regiment i feel like you have to go out of your way to over feed or power feed or whatever

and there’s some perks that come with captivity i.e. having optimal prey stock and not having to deal with scarcity - if they don’t want to eat they literally won’t eat no matter how hard you try lol

and i think per regulating diet if you drop the prey in the enclosure rather than attempting to feed with tongs the specimen can hunt and feed more naturally - i drop feed and always have and it’s a real common thing for specimens to not eat half or 2/3rds of what is typically given (which I keep track of); they don’t eat every single cricket that goes in, i regularly pull dead feeders out that they just killed and left for dead

it also fluctuates - like for example my Avic avic, i usually give them 2-4 medium crickets 1 time a week by dropping them in the enclosure - sometimes they will eat 1 and kill 3, sometimes eat 2 kill 2, sometimes they will eat 4 and leave 0, and so on - by paying attention to this and the size of the abdomen i’ve been able to, through careful monitoring, ensure that my baby has maintained a health size

what I was getting at is I’m against the idea of under feeding both in general and specifically to illicit a behavior that enables the keeper to stare at the specimen


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## Neonblizzard (Aug 27, 2021)

Frogdaddy said:


> The devaluation of male specimens.


This always makes me sad to see! "found out i have a male, devastated!!" 

2-5 years is still a very long time for a pet to live and a big commitment! And the males of certain species can still hit closer to a decade... That's almost as long as having a dog! So i find it a bit odd how many people are so keen to take on a 20-30+ year commitment with a pet... Granted they aren't much upkeep. 

Plus with the males you may even have a chance to get them to a breeder and help contribute to the hobby! 

Anyone who hasn't seen the mature male appreciation thread i would strongly suggest you take a look - they are every bit as lovely as the females

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 5


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## vicareux (Aug 27, 2021)

Neonblizzard said:


> This always makes me sad to see! "found out i have a male, devastated!!"
> 
> 2-5 years is still a very long time for a pet to live and a big commitment! And the males of certain species can still hit closer to a decade... That's almost as long as having a dog! So i find it a bit odd how many people are so keen to take on a 20-30+ year commitment with a pet... Granted they aren't much upkeep.
> 
> ...


On paper,a MM T seems like an awesome starter T
-Active 90% of the time
-Almost never hides
-Webbing everywhere
-Can be quite leggy,therefore big
-Not as defensive
-Shows you a practical example about height fall dangers (They will climb everywhere!!!)
My MM T.albo still eats like a champ,and he matured out in December

Reactions: Agree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## cold blood (Aug 27, 2021)

the belief that there is only one proper way to do things...i do something one way, you do it another way...in many cases both methods can be perfectly fine....its why i often end my posts with JMO or JME.

Feeding schedules are a prime example.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 5


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