# vinegaroon behavior



## chuck (Oct 11, 2003)

i got a young vinegaroon recently and it has peat moss and a piece of cork bark for it to hide.  it is constantly walking around, never hiding no matter the time of day.  is that normal?  im just asking b/c none of my other arachnids walk around as much as this does.  thanks


----------



## Cooper (Oct 11, 2003)

My two vinnegaroons are very active and are good burrowers. Have you provided a deep substrate for him/her to burrow?


----------



## chuck (Oct 11, 2003)

it hasnt tried to burrow yet.  it made a space under the cork bark, but thats all


----------



## Cooper (Oct 11, 2003)

I wouldnt worry then, they are great little guys with voracious appetites! Keep us updated!

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Immortal_sin (Oct 15, 2003)

my vin is constantly pushing dirt around. She is active day and night, and will eat as much as I will feed her. They are so much more active than tarantulas, it's almost a shock

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Wade (Oct 15, 2003)

Just wait...pretty soon, it will be time for them to go underground and seal themselves in until spring. Mine do this every winter.

Thanks to the avatars, it looked like Cooper and Chuck were having a father and son chat!

Wade


----------



## Steven (Oct 15, 2003)

> Thanks to the avatars, it looked like Cooper and Chuck were having a father and son chat!


hehehehehe =D =D =D  well observed 


i wich i could talk about vinnegaroons too,... :8o 
i'm searching for about 3 years now,... and still no sight of them here in Europe,.... only azian ones,.....

 

the search continues,.................


----------



## chuck (Oct 15, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Wade _
> *Just wait...pretty soon, it will be time for them to go underground and seal themselves in until spring. Mine do this every winter.
> 
> Thanks to the avatars, it looked like Cooper and Chuck were having a father and son chat!
> ...


is it like hibernation?  or will they be alert and awake?  why do they do this, isnt it warmer above ground opposed to underground where scorps and Ts dig to escape heat?


----------



## Wade (Oct 16, 2003)

Well, it is considerably cooler in the winter where they live, although not as cold as the rest of the country (tarantulas and scorpions from the same region seal themselves up over the winter as well). Mine come fron southern Arizona (collected them myself). Winter in Arizona is a very dry season, so sealing the burrows is also a protection against dessication. Mine do this at home even though there's constant moisture and it never gets below 70. Instict rules, I guess. Specimens from Florida or other more humid parts of the country may have different patterns of behavior, I've only worked with those from the southwest. I've never worked with the Asian vinnies either, so again, probably a different pattern.

I have noticed that this is also the time when they molt if they're immature. Mature vinegaroons do not molt.

In the wild,  they stay in their burrows during the heat of the day in the summer, but they don't seal them. They inevitably hollow out soil underneath logs and large rocks. Since they do little to disguise the opening, it's fairly easy to spot once you know what to look for. I just love flipping rocks in Arizona...vinegaroons, scorpions, centipedes...

Wade

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## chuck (Oct 16, 2003)

as i sit here waiting for my new book / mag on them, i'll continue to ask here.  when is too much food enough?  i read in marshall's T book that they can eat themselves into a standstill.  i never seen a thin or fat one, so i have nothing to compare my little guy to.  i guess ill take a pic with something to scale for you all.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Wade (Oct 16, 2003)

I feed them about the same as I would a tarantula or scorpion of similar size, 3-4 crickets a week. They seem to do well on that ration. I have seen some of my vinnies get fat before, but usually these turn out to be immatures with a molt coming up or females about to drop eggs. I don't know if there's any direct negative health effects resulting from overfeeding, besides becoming more vunerable to injuries due to falls. Overfeeding is usually not an issue for me as I barely have time for the once a week feeding as it is.  

Wade


----------



## chuck (Oct 17, 2003)

hopefully the pic works, and if it does its a pic of my vinegaroon near a quater (US).  you tell me if shes fat enough.


----------



## chuck (Oct 17, 2003)

this is its tank in its entirety, is it big enough, deep enough, etc?


----------



## Cooper (Oct 18, 2003)

whoa, wierd, red pedipalps? Are you sure that is an american vinnie?


----------



## chuck (Oct 18, 2003)

i thought it was just normal for the young not to be the same color as adults?  i'll ask the dealer again, thanks for pointing that out, anyone else think this is not american?
how about its weight, is it eating well?


----------



## Cooper (Oct 18, 2003)

It certainly seems fat enough! Maybe the young have red pedipalps, although I have never see one(a young one that is).


----------



## tarcan (Oct 19, 2003)

Young do have red pedipalps, I have six here and they all have them...

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## chuck (Oct 19, 2003)

> _Originally posted by tarcan _
> *Young do have red pedipalps, I have six here and they all have them... *


6? you sound like the expirenced keeper, any thoughts on my encloseur?


----------



## tarcan (Oct 19, 2003)

LOL, no I am not an experienced keeper of those animals as I only normally keep theraphosid spiders... I am selling them for a friend of mine that breeds them but who is not on the net... I will ask him about set up, as he breeds them quite often, he should be doing something right!

Take care

Martin

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## chuck (Oct 20, 2003)

N/M


----------



## Wade (Oct 21, 2003)

The red will change to black after a molt or two.

Your enclosure looks pretty good. It's hard to tell, is the substrate moist at all? I usually keep the substrate somewhat moist, but I let it get dry on top, and they burrow down to their preffered humidity level.

I'm interested in how Tarcan's friend breeds them. I've had females drop sacs before, only to eat them in a few days.

Wade


----------



## tarcan (Nov 1, 2003)

Hi Wade,

Sorry it took so long, my friend is coming at my place tonight and I will ask him a few extra questions concerning the sacs...

What he told me so far is that breeding is very easy, he normally breeds his females twice a year... he has successfully done it for at least four years that I can remember of...

He keeps the temperature between 22 and 28 Celcius and the humidity around 80%...

He says the mating courtship can seem a little violent sometimes...

He mentionned that even if you can theoricly house specimens together if the enclosure is big enough, he does not do it and only introduces the male to the female whenever he wants to attempt reproduction...

Other then that he does not do anything else special, no temperature variations or anything...

I will keep you posted on the sacs questions...

Take care

Martin


----------



## Bob (Nov 1, 2003)

Martin,
Will you please ask you freind if medium sized vinegaroons can be sexed? I think mine is a female by looking at it's rather small pinches. The pet store has one more the same size and appears female too. ASK IF THE MALES PINCHERS ARE LARGER WHEN 2/3RDS GROWN.

Thanks,

Bob


----------



## tarcan (Nov 1, 2003)

I will ask about the pedipalp...

Wade, my friend leaves the eggsacs always with the female and does not remove them from her... he says he never had any problems...

Were your females stressed by anything?


----------



## heyjeyniceid (Nov 2, 2003)

OH!!!!! SO they are communal!  Ive always wanted verification of this.  

In my hometown in Sonora, Mexico, these things are in almost every dark hide, especially deep cracks and craters in concrete.  I remeber flooding a hole in my grandmas concrete porch that was flush against the outside wall and full of rubbel.  Within 5 minutes, and a rising water level, no less than 5 Vinegaroons poped out.  2 large ones, and 3 smaller ones.  

last trip I took, I found 2 small ones.  1 walking in the night, and another that snuck into my granies living room.  

horrible looking creatures, heh.


----------



## Wade (Nov 4, 2003)

Thanks for all the information, Martin. It's possible the eggs I've seen were infertile, but one female was so recently captured I thought the odds were good that they'd be good. I did not disturb her at all, the only reason I knew she even had the eggs was because she made her burrow against the plastic and I could just barely peek in at her. I did my level best to avoid even touching the container, but eventually she ate it anyway.

I assumed that the sacs would have to stay since the babies crawl onto the mom's back scorpion-style after hatching. I never even considered taking it an option.

In answer to Bob's question, I don't think the different claw sizes differ much prior to the ultimate molt. I've kept a number of these through molts and have noticed they look distictly different at maturity. The pedipalps of both sexes are bigger and "boxier" (made up word) in perportion than before. If I can get some good pics of a male and female I'll post them.

Wade


----------



## Bob (Nov 4, 2003)

Thanks Wade,
One last  question. How go you know when they have had their final molt ? I would guess they can not breed until that time. I suppose I could measure them from head to end of abdomin but I don't even know that measurement.
I have two now that the season is over and suppose they could molt this winter. They are both very active ! 

Thanks,

Bob


----------



## Wade (Nov 4, 2003)

It's hard to tell for sure. Looking at the overall size and size of pedipalps enables you to make an educated guess. Having kept them for about 8 years I think I've gotten the hang of recognizing matures, but I wouldn't put any money on my guesses 

I always provide a deep substrate. It's good for all of them, but especially immatures. I think it helps them to molt if they can dig a burrow and seal themselves into a chamber. Since the matures don't molt, this isn't as much of a concern, but I think it probably also reduces the likleyhood of the female destoying the eggs.

Wade


----------



## chuck (Nov 5, 2003)

im going to add some more substrate to its tank as some have said they keep theirs.
but if it never attempted to burrow b4, how does it know its too shallow?
i wet the substrate often, this little bugger better start acting the way i want it to. :}


----------



## Wade (Nov 5, 2003)

It may not have attempted to burrow yet simply because it hasn't felt the urge to seal itself up for winter. Out of the 6 I currently own, only one is settled in for the winter. The others are still active at the surface.

Chuck's vinnie looks very well fed and I assume it's not feeding much right now, but after it molts, look out!

Wade


----------



## Bob (Nov 6, 2003)

Wade,
Do I need to drop tank temps for winter?


----------



## Wade (Nov 7, 2003)

I don't think there's any need to, but if breeding is your ultimate goal, it couldn't hurt. I usually just rely on the season temp flucuations in my animal room, 80's and 90's in the summer, down to low 70's and high 60's in the winter.

Wade


----------



## Katy (Nov 9, 2003)

i got mine back in september and he spent the first two weeks of so wandering around shoveling dirt from one side of the tank to the other and back again, now he doesnt have a tunnel to stay in but prefers under the coconut half, and is still fairly active in the early morning and at night, i guess its normal for them to mess around with the dirt so much.  1 question, should i feed him more or less or the same in preparation for winter? also, how do i tell if its a male or female?  i was told by the pet store guy that he's 6 months old, is it possible to tell then?  heres a pic


----------



## GQ. (Nov 10, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Immortal_sin _
> *my vin is constantly pushing dirt around. She is active day and night, and will eat as much as I will feed her. They are so much more active than tarantulas, it's almost a shock  *


I second the active comment.  I tried, unsuccessfully, to take a picture of my giant vinegaroon for the calendar contest.  I absolutely could not get a shot of my female in a fixed position.  She is a little tank, charging through or over or under or around any obstacle I place in her way.  This shot is the best I could do.  I did not enter this in the contest since the legs are blurred as a result of her walking during the photo.


----------



## GQ. (Nov 10, 2003)

One more out of focus picture of her.


----------



## Wade (Nov 12, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Katy _
> *i got mine back in september and he spent the first two weeks of so wandering around shoveling dirt from one side of the tank to the other and back again, now he doesnt have a tunnel to stay in but prefers under the coconut half, and is still fairly active in the early morning and at night, i guess its normal for them to mess around with the dirt so much.  1 question, should i feed him more or less or the same in preparation for winter? also, how do i tell if its a male or female?  i was told by the pet store guy that he's 6 months old, is it possible to tell then?  heres a pic *


As long as it eats, I'd say feed it. If it decides to shut down for the winter, it will probably stop. No harm in offering food, though. As with tarantulas, you don't want live prey in there if it molts, but adults don't molt. Live crix may annoy the vinegaroon if it's not hungry, however.

Hard to tell for sure from your picture, but if you put a gun to my head and forced me to take a guess (how's that for a disclaimer?), I'd say yours appears to be a mature male, based on apparent size and the perportional size of the pedipalps. Compare your animal with the one in G.Q.'s picture. His is a female, so the pedipalps are smaller in relation to the rest of the body. Can you see a difference in yours?

I'd say that animal is way older than 6 months. I collected some young ones (about 3/4" without the tail) more tha a year ago and now they're about twice that size. How big is yours? He looks like he's in the 2.5-3" range...way to big for six months! 

Wade


----------



## chuck (Nov 12, 2003)

would an increase in the temp stimulate a molt sooner?


----------



## Steven (Nov 12, 2003)

stop posting those awsome pictures,...  
the're killing me   

@Katy

quite an impressive specimen you've got there  :}


----------



## Wade (Nov 12, 2003)

> _Originally posted by chuck _
> *would an increase in the temp stimulate a molt sooner? *


Possibly, but I've observed that they molt while in the sealed-in-the-burrow dormant stage, not during the summer.

Wade


----------



## chuck (Dec 4, 2003)

to those who have young vinegaroons:
have yours burrowed and sealed themselves off yet?  mine shows no sign of doing so, and hardly digs.  spends most of its time on the cork (not b/c it dislikes the substrate, just b/c the piece of cork is huge)


----------



## Wade (Dec 5, 2003)

I have four young ones. At the moment, two have sealed themselves in, and two are still active on the surface.

Wade


----------



## chuck (Dec 14, 2003)

are hisser nymphs good feeders?  it seems to me that the vinegaroons depend heavily on their sense of touch - feeling for vibrations, but it doesnt do them any good if their prey doesnt move.  its a good size for my little guy, when the roach does move its too fast (when i bother the roach), other than that its a statue in the tank.


----------



## BaltimoreBoy (Dec 14, 2003)

what a weird looking bug... is that a cross between a scorpion and maybe like a tarantula or a mantid?


----------



## chuck (Dec 15, 2003)

finally the damn thing ate, cut the head piece off the hisser nymph, its "skin" is starting to get darker and the slits of were it will break out of its old skin is showing, or maybe i never noticed them b4 but hopefully ill see a molt soon


----------



## Wade (Dec 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by BaltimoreBoy _
> *what a weird looking bug... is that a cross between a scorpion and maybe like a tarantula or a mantid?    *


No, they are an entirely seperate arcahnid order - Uropygi. It's a small order, so most people are not familliar with them. Although they are very scorpion like in appearance, I believe they are more closely related to spiders than scorpions (but they are NOT spiders).  They are not at all related to mantids, which are insects.

The only problem I can see with hissers as feeders is that they can climb glass and get out of reach of the vinegaroons.

Wade


----------



## chuck (Dec 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Wade _
> *
> The only problem I can see with hissers as feeders is that they can climb glass and get out of reach of the vinegaroons.
> 
> Wade *


that has happened and it got out the slit of the kritter keeper, but the unlucky roach decided to stay on the top of the tank but below a deli cup i was using for my assassin eggs.
so i cut its front off and it was fresh dead


----------



## chuck (Jan 5, 2004)

is my vinegaroon the only one above dirt still???
i thought maybe he didnt like the substrate, i was using 100% peat, so i changed it to 100% top soil and he still sits on the cork.  when he ventures on the soil he runs back onto the cork when he hits a wet spot...its like a kid running away from the surf on the beach.


----------



## Wade (Jan 6, 2004)

At the moment, some of mine are underground, but some aren't. It may not mean anything, some individuals just vary in behaviour patterns.

Wade


----------

