# Phoneutria bite or burn?



## aollgaard (Mar 11, 2009)

Hi everyone,

I am wondering if anybody out there knows whether spiders in the genus _Phoneutria_ have nettle hairs on legs and abdomen?

I recently had an encounter with one in the ecuadorian part of the Amazon, and am trying to find out whether it bit me or I just got burned by urticating hairs. I am aware that these spiders are considered to be highly venomous, but have read somewhere that they don't deliver venom with all bites.

I got bitten/burned while putting on my trousers that had been hanging on a bamboo wall in a wooden cottage. It hurt some for a few hours, but that was it. I had no idea what species it was at the time, so I was a bit baffled yesterday when I realized what it was. I am, of course, by no means 100% certain that it is in fact a _Phoneutria_, but it shure looks like one. Any other suggestions?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance!

Kind regards,

Asser Oellgaard
Denmark

Here is the beast that sat lurking in my trousers:






I have seen these large and beautiful spiders many times in the ecuadorian Amazon - several times with every visit. Here are two more from previous trips. I think the first one is feasting on what could be a tarantula:


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## jsloan (Mar 11, 2009)

I've never heard of _*Phoneutria*_ having urticating hairs, so you were probably bitten.  BTW, urticating hairs don't "burn," they irritate.  They are barbed and so become embedded in the skin of the victim, causing itching, and inflamation.  The result may feel like burning but it's not a real burn.  You do not want to get them in your eyes.

I'm not sure if your pictures, especially the first one, are of _*Phoneutria*_ or _*Cupiennius*_.  The bite of the latter is not as venomous.


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## Bjoern Elksnat (Mar 11, 2009)

Hi!

It is definetly a Phoneutria!

First and Third one is a P. boliviensis (as told as not venoumous to kill a little child) and the Second specimen is a P. reidyi (not deadly at all).

You will survive!! ;-)

LG Björni


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## toolrick (Mar 11, 2009)

jsloan said:


> I've never heard of _*Phoneutria*_ having urticating hairs, so you were probably bitten.  BTW, urticating hairs don't "burn," they irritate.  They are barbed and so become embedded in the skin of the victim, causing itching, and inflamation.  The result may feel like burning but it's not a real burn.  You do not want to get them in your eyes.
> 
> I'm not sure if your pictures, especially the first one, are of _*Phoneutria*_ or _*Cupiennius*_.  The bite of the latter is not as venomous.


They are all Phoneutria for sure...
you can also tell if you were bitten because there should be 2 marks of the teeth they have in the part where is burning. Besides, you have had to feel when it bit you, they have very long teeth. I would not miss with mine.

Ricardo


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## aollgaard (Mar 11, 2009)

Thanks for your replies!

Björni, what are the characteristics of the two species that you mention? To my untrained identification-of-Phoneutria-eyes, they look quite alike. Is it the "facial" pattern?

Thanks again,

Asser


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## Bjoern Elksnat (Mar 11, 2009)

Hi aollgard,

you can see at boliviensis that they have a white area right and left of the eyesides and the yellow-coloured forelegs.

At the reidyi, you can see pink touches at the legs and the complete front, and the thin black stripe on the bulbus.

LG Björni


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## toolrick (Mar 11, 2009)

It's not my will to fight about the aformentioned subject, but I must comment on this one, as I was told by whom has identified many Phoneutrias and written the paper in 2001 about the identification Key of the IMO. 
PHONEUTRIA SPECIMEN SHOULD NOT BE IDENTIFIED BY THE BARE HUMAN EYE OF CARACHTERISTICS SUCH AS COLORATION AND OUTSIDE LOOKING, BUT ON THE SEXUAL ORGAN OF FEMALE AND MALE SPECIMENS.
IT ALSO IS USELESS IF ONE SAYS THAT P. BOLIVIENSIS IS NOT AGRESSIVE WHILE NIGREVENTER IS THE MOST AGRESSIVE AS THIS IS NOT A CHARACTERISTIC OF THE GENUS EITHER.
THREAD DISPLAY ON THE OTHER HAND IS A CHARACTERISTIC AS IS TOLD ON BERTANI'S WRITTEN PAPER.
Sorry I cannot help you with the ID of the aformentioned Phoneutria specimens, all I can say is that they are from the genus, but without the SEXUAL organs it would be useless.

Ricardo


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## jsloan (Mar 11, 2009)

toolrick said:


> PHONEUTRIA SPECIMEN SHOULD NOT BE IDENTIFIED BY THE BARE HUMAN EYE OF CARACHTERISTICS SUCH AS COLORATION AND OUTSIDE LOOKING, BUT ON THE SEXUAL ORGAN OF FEMALE AND MALE SPECIMENS.


Absolutely.  With relatively few exceptions, this is the most reliable way (often the only reliable way) to identify the majority of true spiders to species.


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## burmish101 (Mar 18, 2009)

Only about 3% of bites cause systematic effects and if your unlucky and one of the 3% is you then you better get to the hospital and quick lol, theres no mistaking a severe bite from a Phoneutria.


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## tarantulasperu (May 27, 2009)

*systematic effects are no joke*



burmish101 said:


> Only about 3% of bites cause systematic effects and if your unlucky and one of the 3% is you then you better get to the hospital and quick lol, theres no mistaking a severe bite from a Phoneutria.


the effects can be devastating dont' want to be rude but for the guys this spider can take your manhood ''i wont go into detail''


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## toolrick (May 27, 2009)

@tarantulasperu:

Have you ever had any experience with the spider?
Have you ever been bitten?

Ricardo


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## brazzerswanderingspider (Sep 9, 2018)

All Phoneutria bites are medically significant, however, it can choose to inject minimal venom. The toxins are Excitatory Neurotoxins (this excites the nervous system), meaning it can cause pain, sweating, salivation, tearing, piloerection (body hair standing on end), muscle fasciculation, high blood pressure, tingling sensation, particularly around the lips, and flooding of the lungs with fluid (pulmonary oedema). For most excitatory venoms, only some of these clinical effects will be present. 


For some species, while the venom effects are distressing, they are unlikely to prove lethal, but for a few species, such as some scorpions and the Australian funnel web spiders, these excitatory effects can prove rapidly lethal, especially in young children. The reason why is the Robustus will inject as much venom as possible. 

Phoneutria also have secondary cardiotoxins (they have some negative aspect on the heart).

The spider with the most toxic bite is the Phoneutria Nigriventer because the P. Nigriventer will inject at a rate more than 80% of venom.

While the Atrax Robustus has the same toxins as the P. Nigriventer, the Atrax Robustus does not however cause Priapism, Priapism makes the P. Nigriventer much more dangerous because blood is trapped, cause rot if not treated. 

Here is an article on the P Nigriventer:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0041010112005119

And I have not been bitten, I have a  P. boliviensis, whose venom according to NIH is hemolytic, check the article here:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4549730/


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## Torech Ungol (Sep 10, 2018)

Holy necromancy, Batman! This thread is nearly a decade old.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## SonsofArachne (Sep 11, 2018)

This thread -

Reactions: Funny 1


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## NYAN (Sep 11, 2018)

What if the OP was still wondering to this day what happened..

Reactions: Funny 3


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