# Veterinary Care of Tarantulas



## Browncoat (Sep 27, 2014)

Hi guys,

So it seems to be oft-stated on this forum that "there's nothing a vet could do for a tarantula that you wouldn't be able to do yourself." I'd say that, yes, the vast majority of vets wouldn't be able to do any more than we could, BUT I had a brief peek at this book called "Invertebrate Medicine" using Google Books. Here's a link:
http://books.google.ca/books/about/Invertebrate_Medicine.html?id=bMMK592J32cC&redir_esc=y
There's a section devoted to spiders. It may be a little jargon-heavy if you have no background in science, but I think what it illustrates is that, if an exotic vet is willing to learn, it WOULD be possible for them to treat tarantulas more effectively. It's true that less is known about the healthcare of tarantulas than most pets, but it's not complete guesswork as some seem to think. I am certainly not made of money, but I would be willing to pay for healthcare for my tarantulas if I deemed it necessary, if only because I dislike the idea that we can treat animals as disposable.

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## Akai (Sep 27, 2014)

i dislike the idea of treating animals as disposable as well but the vast majority of people outside the hobby are going to view spiders as disposable.  its not a cute cat or dog or whatever so it could easily be replaced.  tarantulas are tough but there are no pills or shots for a spider and most deaths and injury are due to falls, dehydration or dessication, molting problems/stuck in molt or cuts.  i'm not going to even touch DKS since that is a hot topic in itself.  All are high mortality with dehydration being the easiest to over come.  its sad really but each ailment/injury can be hard lesson to learn.

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## cold blood (Sep 27, 2014)

I've never heard of someone taking a fish to a vet, and they are vastly more popular  (and more likely to fall to an illness or problem) of a "pet".   I just don't think there would be enough resulting added business for a vet to justify it for them.    


I also see more of a limit as to what they would be able to do for an invert.  Do they show obvious signs of illness?  Not really.   Could you reliably administer antibiotics?  Can you put a t "under" and perform incredibly delicate surgery (successfully) in the most extreme cases?

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## gobey (Sep 27, 2014)

cold blood said:


> I've never heard of someone taking a fish to a vet, and they are vastly more popular  (and more likely to fall to an illness or problem) of a "pet".   I just don't think there would be enough resulting added business for a vet to justify it for them.
> 
> 
> I also see more of a limit as to what they would be able to do for an invert.  Do they show obvious signs of illness?  Not really.   Could you reliably administer antibiotics?  Can you put a t "under" and perform incredibly delicate surgery (successfully) in the most extreme cases?


"Save my OBT doc!"

".... No."

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## Tim Benzedrine (Sep 27, 2014)

cold blood said:


> I've never heard of someone taking a fish to a vet,


Uh, not so fast there! 

[youtube]fs0iq6DxuRk[/youtube]

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## Arachnomaniac19 (Sep 27, 2014)

There actually is fish medication out there. In fact I just had to use some on my axolotl for an anchor worm infestation last month. Just go to the fish section of the store and you'll see meds for Ick, Dropsy, fungal infections, ect.

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## DrJ (Sep 27, 2014)

Arachnomaniac19 said:


> There actually is fish medication out there. In fact I just had to use some on my axolotl for an anchor worm infestation last month. Just go to the fish section of the store and you'll see meds for Ick, Dropsy, fungal infections, ect.


Yes, but that is very different than taking your fish to the vet.  The point was that those of us into exotic pets such as fish, reptile and inverts are generally on our own to care for our animals due to a lack of focused concentration in the world of veterinary care on this niche market.  And, really, why bother?  The community as a whole tends to educate each other and learn basic principles.  It's almost become an expected side-job of maintaining our hobby, that we learn the medical needs of our animals and how best to aid them in distress...whether ill or injured.

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## Arachnomaniac19 (Sep 27, 2014)

DrJ said:


> Yes, but that is very different than taking your fish to the vet.  The point was that those of us into exotic pets such as fish, reptile and inverts are generally on our own to care for our animals due to a lack of focused concentration in the world of veterinary care on this niche market.  And, really, why bother?  The community as a whole tends to educate each other and learn basic principles.  It's almost become an expected side-job of maintaining our hobby, that we learn the medical needs of our animals and how best to aid them in distress...whether ill or injured.


That point was really just meant as a side comment, to be taken as a note, but I guess I should have stated that more clearly. Oh, well.

Some people do go to the vet to order the more rare varieties of medication. I know, it's still different but at the same time there are common similarities. Hopefully there will be tarantula meds in the near future. 

I also beg to differ for the reptile part of your post. I've taken my bearded dragon to the vet for check ups a few times and the people there were very knowledgable. I also know of quite a few people who take wild caught animals to the vet to get parasites and pathogens removed or killed. But sometime some things have to be done at home, with reptiles, but I think that usually it's at a vet clinic.

I suppose that it's always good to know how to treat your animals but I think it would be better if there was someone more knowledgable out there to do it for you or to correct your technique (vet). Either way it probably won't happen in the near future.


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## LordWaffle (Sep 27, 2014)

There are a number of extremely knowledgeable and skilled reptile vets in my city.  They're always part of a clinic, so they aren't operating an entire business simply off that alone.  Were there to ever be a functional field of tarantula veterinary care, I suspect it would work the same way.


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## Drache (Sep 27, 2014)

Indeed - I was thinking about this very subject right around breakfast time today.  The thought was "I wonder whether my herp vet knows anything about tarantulas."  
You must understand that my new herp vet is two hours and five trains away, which is an improvement over the previous one who abandoned me and moved two states away.  

Here's a tiny rant you didn't expect: I live in a place where nothing is legal.  Ok - I exaggerate, but not by much.  The State regulations are sort of reasonable, but then there is the City health department and according to them, I am not even supposed to keep rear-fanged colubrids, so yes - I am a brazen criminal for keeping even non-native garter snakes.  But since I have had one of those city health inspectors once ask me whether a kingsnake was a python, I am not too worried, and I promise that this is the extend of my criminality - I am not a black market arms dealer, and there's no meth lab in my basement - I don't even have a car I can break the speed limit with.  Anyhow - any vet who is actually interested in exotic animals to the extend that they would want to keep more than a king or corn snake and some frogs would not want to live here.  Even I don't really like thinking of myself as a criminal, and am planning to move as soon as the daughter's done with highschool.  I like rear-fanged colubrids, and not just the little ones . . .

So would I take my tarantula to the vet if needed and that was an option?  Sure I would.  I bring my herps to the vet without anything being wrong - to get a baseline for the future; so he knows the animal.  I don't currently do this with some of my more fragile animals, because I am realistic in assessing their survival chances when stressed in addition to being ill on a longish trip.
Sometimes one just has to deal, but having a trained professional with experience look at one's animals is just so soothing.  Sadly most vets who have done an exotic specialty course don't end up having enough experience for me to trust their judgement.  With that in mind I hope to learn to recognize trouble when it's fresh and more likely to be treatable by simple means, and to learn more about in-home treatment options.  I expect it'll be the same for tarantulas, and there's a lot to learn.


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## Browncoat (Sep 27, 2014)

There are indeed vets out there willing to treat fish. The only one I've met personally works at a public aquarium and usually doesn't see private clients. I did, however, read an article about a goldfish undergoing surgery the other day. Once again, just because people treat goldfish/hamsters/etc. as disposable, doesn't mean they should be.

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DrJ said:


> Yes, but that is very different than taking your fish to the vet.  The point was that those of us into exotic pets such as fish, reptile and inverts are generally on our own to care for our animals due to a lack of focused concentration in the world of veterinary care on this niche market.  And, really, why bother?  The community as a whole tends to educate each other and learn basic principles.  It's almost become an expected side-job of maintaining our hobby, that we learn the medical needs of our animals and how best to aid them in distress...whether ill or injured.


I'd say the primary reasons to "bother" are because the vet has access to a diagnostic lab, has access to many more drugs, and knows how to perform surgery. I'd never try surgery on a human without having gone to medical school, so why would I try it on a bearded dragon?


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## Formerphobe (Sep 27, 2014)

http://www.aczm.org/
http://www.iaaam.org/
http://www.arav.org/about-us/

There are a lot of veterinary specialties out there that many people are not aware of.  There are also many veterinarians who have special interests in certain groups of animals but have not pursued board certification.  Unless one is employed by a zoological park or university, it is not financially feasible for the average practitioner to only see fish, or spiders, etc. though they may have significant knowledge and experience with that group.  

There is even a Veterinary Technician Zoological Specialty.  http://www.avzmt.org/ 
As a licensed veterinary technician, part of my basic schooling included exotics classes.  Anesthesia courses covered mammals as well as non-mammalian species, as did pharmacology.  Because of my special interest in exotics, much of my personal as well as mandatory continuing education has been focused there.  In fact, I just returned from a one day conference where two of the six lectures lectures were specifically on reptiles and amphibians.

I'm fortunate to work in a mixed practice with a former zoo vet who has a wide range of experience that includes tarantulas, though we rarely see them in practice.  (Partly because they are illegal to own in the jurisdiction where I work.)   Another of my veterinarians has considerable experience with reptiles.  I've assisted with surgery on snakes, lizards, tortoises and witnessed surgery on fish.  

The average fish hobbyist doesn't keep fish valuable enough to them to warrant them seeking professional veterinary assistance in event of illness or injury.  Owners of expensive Koi (some which have sold for over 1 million dollars), are more than happy to seek veterinary care for their fish.  With proper husbandry, many hobby fish species will live into their twenties, thirties or longer.  There are veterinarians who specialize in fish medicine - hobby, captive, and endangered patients.  

Unfortunately, the maladies of most exotics are attributable to poor husbandry.  Many die without ever seeing a veterinarian or their keepers even seeking advise on a forum such as Arachnoboards.  The owners who do seek veterinary care frequently bring them in at the eleventh hour.  i.e.- when MBD (Metabolic Bone Disease) has become NBD (*No* Bone Disease) and the animal is dying before our eyes.   

No question, the average hobbyist is more knowledgeable on tarantulas than the average veterinarian.  No veterinarian is going to get rich, or even make ends meet by being just a 'spider doctor'.  Truth be told, most hobbyists would sooner spend the money on another tarantula than pay a veterinarian.  Though they are few and far between, there *are* veterinarians out there with knowledge and experience above and beyond that of the average hobbyist.  Not to mention access to beneficial prescription drugs. If I had a Harpactira pulchripes and it got sick, you bet I'd be seeking veterinary care!

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## Browncoat (Sep 28, 2014)

Formerphobe said:


> http://www.aczm.org/
> http://www.iaaam.org/
> http://www.arav.org/about-us/
> 
> ...


You betcha! Sooner or later there will be a vet who is also a tarantula hobbyist, and their personal passion will drive them to be a "spider vet," at least on the side. Knowledge of these animals' anatomy and physiology DOES exist. It's not complete voodoo.


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## gobey (Sep 28, 2014)

Browncoat said:


> You betcha! Sooner or later there will be a vet who is also a tarantula hobbyist, and their personal passion will drive them to be a "spider vet," at least on the side. Knowledge of these animals' anatomy and physiology DOES exist. It's not complete voodoo.


"spider vet?" or vet who also does spiders? One will make money. One won't lol.

Honestly none of my Ts are pricey. I'd rather try helping them myself than incur vet bills. Unless I had a real expensive P. metallica or like a MF B. emilia or G. pulchra or something. Or maybw
maybe like an OW I was real fond of, But wouldn't touch lol.


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## Browncoat (Sep 28, 2014)

gobey said:


> "spider vet?" or vet who also does spiders? One will make money. One won't lol.
> 
> Honestly none of my Ts are pricey. I'd rather try helping them myself than incur vet bills. Unless I had a real expensive P. metallica or like a MF B. emilia or G. pulchra or something. Or maybw
> maybe like an OW I was real fond of, But wouldn't touch lol.


I meant a vet who ALSO does spiders.
Earlier in this thread I was voicing my opinion on how I dislike the idea that we can treat animals as disposable. To me, personally, it doesn't matter if I have, say, a G. rosea worth $35 or a T. blondi worth $350. I still want to do everything I can to help them be healthy.

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## gobey (Sep 28, 2014)

Browncoat said:


> I meant a vet who ALSO does spiders.
> Earlier in this thread I was voicing my opinion on how I dislike the idea that we can treat animals as disposable. To me, personally, it doesn't matter if I have, say, a G. rosea worth $35 or a T. blondi worth $350. I still want to do everything I can to help them be healthy.


I figured you probably meant that. Just conversing. I don't want to think of them as disposable either. I'd just as soon use homemade spider medical procedures. Is there really much else a vet can do than we do? I'm just still looking at cost benefit ratio I guess. If that makes it sound like O don't care about my Ts so be it. But they're more than just bugs to me.

But if a new T is less than your vet bill. You try your best to save the animal, but it's not going to make it. Isn't it good to also give a new one a home?

Idk I don't want to sound opposed to spider vets, and I totally understand saving an animal you care about. Even a large fuzzy spider. Luckily I haven't experienced a sick or dying T yet. But I have a couple of MMs that'll meet their day at some point. 

No veterinary care for that.


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## Akai (Sep 28, 2014)

Tim Benzedrine said:


> Uh, not so fast there!
> 
> [youtube]fs0iq6DxuRk[/youtube]


I wonder how much a brain operation is on a $2 goldfish?


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## Oumriel (Sep 28, 2014)

The exotics vet that I take my rabbit to only does rabbits, birds and herps. Was there on Friday to get Pancake's teeth checked ( so happy to be back in AZ ) and I  asked him about tarantulas. He said that he would have no problem looking at a T. He did say that since the hobby of keeping them is still not very mainstream that the serious hobbiest probably would know more than him due to trial and error and sharing info between hobbyists.

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## awiec (Sep 29, 2014)

The wonderful thing about tarantulas is that many of their ailments can be treated at home. Of course internal parasites are something we really can't treat effectively or even DKS but many other things can be treated. I had a P.muticus get stuck in a molt late at night, even if there was a spider vet I would not have been able to get it to the vet in time before it was too late. I had to operate myself and low and behold I still have my little angry baboon alive and well with all the legs grown back. Mites and external worms can be treated with vaseline or be picked off and dehydration is cured with water. This is one of the reasons I enjoy my spiders is because I can treat most of their troubles, it sucks when there are some things you can't help but buying CB specimens helps eliminate the chance of the internal parasites you can't treat.


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## Browncoat (Sep 29, 2014)

MOST things that a vet can do we could do as well, for free. But there are a few procedures where, if, hypothetically, there was a vet that knew his or her stuff about spiders, it would be worth paying for if you genuinely wanted to save your spider's life. A vet will always have steadier and more precise hands when cutting a tarantula out of a bad moult. That's assuming, of course, that you aren't a human doctor, in which case you're probably evenly matched . Internal parasites and other ailments that MUST exist but we just discount as "anomalous" deaths, a vet could help with as well.


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## awiec (Sep 30, 2014)

Browncoat said:


> MOST things that a vet can do we could do as well, for free. But there are a few procedures where, if, hypothetically, there was a vet that knew his or her stuff about spiders, it would be worth paying for if you genuinely wanted to save your spider's life. A vet will always have steadier and more precise hands when cutting a tarantula out of a bad moult. That's assuming, of course, that you aren't a human doctor, in which case you're probably evenly matched . Internal parasites and other ailments that MUST exist but we just discount as "anomalous" deaths, a vet could help with as well.


The thing is, what exactly are you going to use to kill a parasite inside a spider? Many of the things that one would use would also kill the spider and because spiders cannot truly "clot" their blood surgery to remove them is not likely. Sure in a perfect world there would be doctors to save my spiders from parasites but we don't live in that world as we live in one dominated by profit; who is going to make money off an invert that requires very special care? I would cry like a baby if one of my T's got sick and there was nothing I could do but at the end of the day spiders are very prolific and tough to where I can get another one with little issue.

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## cold blood (Sep 30, 2014)

[/QUOTE]"]The thing is, what exactly are you going to use to kill a parasite inside a spider? 





> I had the same thought.  Generally this is dealt with by introducing a pesticide into the host animal.  Not only would this be impossible, but how do you administer anything to a t internally.  Anything that would kill a parasite would almost certainly kill the t I would think.  Another thought on the parasite front is that they generally don't show themselves or cause issues until its too late.   Even if you found your t did have one, chances are, by then its already done irreparable damage.

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