# C. Lividum Setup



## KeiraJ (Nov 24, 2017)

Hey all.

This is my first attempt at creating a viable new home for my C.Lividum.

Does anybody have any hints or suggestions as to anything I can do to further create the perfect home for my new room mate?

I've read lots of books and done loads of research but I just wondered if anybody had any more advice?

The hide is cork wood semi buried to encourage burrowing. 

The substrate is eco earth. I have some vermiculite on the way and was considering mixing it in to help with water absorption

The tank itself is 12x12x12 and the substrate at its deepest is around 9.5" deep and at its shallowest around 6".

I'm considering getting some kind of plant to add to the tank as a little bit of living foliage.

The tank itself is open to change and I still have time before I want to move her in.

I want the happiest T I can possibly have.

Thanks so much for your suggestions.


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## Nightshady (Nov 24, 2017)

Hey! I’m fairly new, but will toss some ideas out until someone more experienced comes along. 

Is this a full size T? If it’s not (like a sling or juvenile), the habitat might be too large for it. 

As for live plants, I’ve heard people say that it can make the humidity too high to keep watering them. Also, live plants can make changing the substrate a pain. Most people use artificial plants, although I’m sure someone here has done live ones and can probably give you better advice.

Is this your first T? Most people would dissuade people from getting an OW as their first T. As I’m sure you know they can be aggressive and carry a nasty bite. 

Congrats on your new T! I’m wanting to get an Exo-Terra myself when mine get larger.


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## KeiraJ (Nov 24, 2017)

Hey. Thankyou for your reply!! 

I'm looking at getting a T large enough to be sexed. So between juv and sub-adult would be great. Tank size isn't an issue as long as she has plenty of room to burrow.

That's what I have heard too about plants. I live in the UK so humidity is an issue so I'm hoping a Pothos would help out and give a more natural feel.

Also for anyone wondering I've packed down the earth a lot since the photos were taken. 

I'm well aware of the issues with keeping C.lividum and am confident that I am capable of looking after her correctly (otherwise I would never have bought her)

So either I'm crazy or stupid. I guess time will tell.

Thankyou again


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## viper69 (Nov 24, 2017)

If owning a Blue Hell Spawn Demon is your first T-- poor choice.

It's a pet hole as you know. Plants generally are a waste, Ts dig them up, web all over them etc. However, this species is a pet hole, one of the most gorgeous Ts you'll "never" see. You could easily go deeper for this species.

I do know one person that kept live plants with a misting system quite successfully with a large T, so it's not impossible.


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## KeiraJ (Nov 24, 2017)

viper69 said:


> If owning a Blue Hell Spawn Demon is your first T-- poor choice.
> 
> It's a pet hole as you know. Plants generally are a waste, Ts dig them up, web all over them etc. However, this species is a pet hole, one of the most gorgeous Ts you'll "never" see. You could easily go deeper for this species.
> 
> I do know one person that kept live plants with a misting system quite successfully with a large T, so it's not impossible.


I have done my research and I know what the specific needs of C.Lividum are. I work long hours so don't have much time to spend at home looking after a needier species. I have wanted this T since I was a teenager and have always been refused it by partners/parents. I had my heart set on this girl and no matter how "temperamental" they are this does not daunt me. I have done my research. I don't want a pet I can cuddle. I have a cat for that.

That being said.

I appreciate your reply and thank you taking the time to answer.

I may get some fake plants....more for the aesthetic than for her.....specially as I have so much room to spare and try to decorate it a little closer to her natural habitat.


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## viper69 (Nov 24, 2017)

KeiraJ said:


> I have done my research and I know what the specific needs of C.Lividum are. I work long hours so don't have much time to spend at home looking after a needier species. I have wanted this T since I was a teenager and have always been refused it by partners/parents. I had my heart set on this girl and no matter how "temperamental" they are this does not daunt me. I have done my research. I don't want a pet I can cuddle. I have a cat for that.
> 
> That being said.
> 
> ...


Tempermental, understatement hahah.

No Ts are meant to cuddle, there are better choices than this one. Also, petholes are no more or less needy than a Rose Hair.

It's your choice, it may go great, it may not, no one knows Good luck, you'll need it.

The cage furniture may or may not come in handy if/when you have to dig her out, flood her out.


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## Chris LXXIX (Nov 24, 2017)

viper69 said:


> However, this species is a pet hole, one of the most gorgeous Ts you'll "never" see.


I spot her lovely blue legs almost every night near the burrow entrance, when she's hungry. Bit of solace

Reactions: Like 1


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## Chris LXXIX (Nov 24, 2017)

A 'spartan' set up is your friend, with those. For me the rule when it comes to obligate burrowers is:

- lots of substrate inches (sometimes even 12), a water dish, a piece of cork bark (always), a couple of fake leaves. Done 

For the obligate burrowers from Asia or Africans that require a nice level of humidity for thrive (like genus _Hysterocrates_) proper ventilation is  mandatory for me. I don't want stagnant air nor unwanted stuff inside, from 'mushrooms' to whatever.


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## viper69 (Nov 24, 2017)

Chris LXXIX said:


> I spot her lovely blue legs almost every night near the burrow entrance, when she's hungry. Bit of solace


just like my female irminia BAHHHHH

Reactions: Funny 1


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## KeiraJ (Nov 24, 2017)

Chris LXXIX said:


> A 'spartan' set up is your friend, with those. For me the rule when it comes to obligate burrowers is:
> 
> - lots of substrate inches (sometimes even 12), a water dish, a piece of cork bark (always), a couple of fake leaves. Done
> 
> For the obligate burrowers from Asia or Africans that require a nice level of humidity for thrive (like genus _Hysterocrates_) proper ventilation is  mandatory for me. I don't want stagnant air nor unwanted stuff inside, from 'mushrooms' to whatever.


Thankyou!!! 

A lovely and affirming reply. I'm doing everything I can to make it right for her so she's a happy girl. She may be my first T but this isn't my first rodeo. I just wanted affirmation that what i was doing was the right thing for her.

Reactions: Like 1


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## KeiraJ (Nov 24, 2017)

Chris LXXIX said:


> I spot her lovely blue legs almost every night near the burrow entrance, when she's hungry. Bit of solace



I'm sure this will be enough for me too!!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Chris LXXIX (Nov 24, 2017)

KeiraJ said:


> Thankyou!!!
> 
> A lovely and affirming reply. I'm doing everything I can to make it right for her so she's a happy girl. She may be my first T but this isn't my first rodeo. I just wanted affirmation that what i was doing was the right thing for her.


Your set up isn't bad, I want only to point out this.

Being you, I would place the piece of cork bark (btw semi buried, good job) not so near the opening door (if I'm not wrong, you are using an Exo Terra enclosure, am I right?) but behind, where now there's the water dish, basically.

You don't want to open for maintenance and find yourself so 'near/close' the burrow entrance (assuming of course that the spider will choose that place for, but 7 out of 10, being opportunistic, they will). This way is more easy, trust me.

Also (consider this for another pet hole, ah ah) a quite cheap XL sized Kritter Keeper (I suggest 'Dragon' brand, a German one)  are *perfectly* fine for those kind of T's.


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## KeiraJ (Nov 24, 2017)

Chris LXXIX said:


> Your set up isn't bad, I want only to point out this.
> 
> Being you, I would place the piece of cork bark (btw semi buried, good job) not so near the opening door (if I'm not wrong, you are using an Exo Terra enclosure, am I right?) but behind, where now there's the water dish, basically.
> 
> ...


Thankyou. I did consider that as an issue as well. The majority of my maintenance etc will be done from above..so as to avoid disturbing her when needing to access the tank. That's why I have now placed the water bowl on the ground above the entrance to the hole so it's away from her. 

Thankyou for the helpful tips!!!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Nonnack (Nov 24, 2017)

Imo its one of the worst choices for first T, but its your decision. About the enclosure, like Chris said its better to make starter burrow away from opening. And this T don't need anything but deep substrate to make it happy

Reactions: Like 2


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## KeiraJ (Nov 24, 2017)

Nonnack said:


> Imo its one of the worst choices for first T, but its your decision. About the enclosure, like Chris said its better to make starter burrow away from opening. And this T don't need anything but deep substrate to make it happy


Thankyou I'll do a bit of rearranging and post my finished product before I welcome her in

Also is there anyone in the UK who keeps T's? My flat is a comfortable 20 degrees most of the time. Am going to get a heat matt to substitute this with a little bit more but generally room temperature should be okay for her right?

I've had varying reports of temperature from various sources but the most reputable seems to suggest anything between 20 and 25 degrees is fine.

I'm not planning on breeding her and I don't want to initiate faster growth. Just want her to be comfortable.

Thanks


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## Chris LXXIX (Nov 24, 2017)

KeiraJ said:


> Also is there anyone in the UK who keeps T's?


I'm afraid you are the only one remained, happened a kinda 'MacLeod Highlander' massive issue in the island, recently

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1


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## KeiraJ (Nov 24, 2017)

Chris LXXIX said:


> I'm afraid you are the only one remained, happened a kinda 'MacLeod Highlander' massive issue in the island, recently


[/QUOTE]

Hahaha

Oh nooo....only one crazy spider girl remains. I shall be the best!!!!

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Chris LXXIX (Nov 24, 2017)

Joking aside, there's a lot of UK keepers here in this site.

Personally IMO 20° C Day are a bit low (night time are ok, on the other hand). Let's say that if you can offer at least 22/23° C Day would be better

Reactions: Like 1


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## KeiraJ (Nov 24, 2017)

Chris LXXIX said:


> Joking aside, there's a lot of UK keepers here in this site.
> 
> Personally IMO 20° C Day are a bit low (night time are ok, on the other hand). Let's say that if you can offer at least 22/23° C Day would be better


Perfect!! Thankyou very much!


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## Nightshady (Nov 24, 2017)

KeiraJ said:


> Am going to get a heat matt to substitute this with a little bit more but generally room temperature should be okay for her right?


In general, heat mats are not recommended for T’s. Your best bet is a space heater that’s not blowing directly on the habitat.


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## KeiraJ (Nov 24, 2017)

Nightshady said:


> In general, heat mats are not recommended for T’s. Your best bet is a space heater that’s not blowing directly on the habitat.


Heat matts under the terrarium are the issue not attached to the side. Plus space heaters use a lot of electricity and I'm on a meter. And I won't always be here to regulate a whole rooms temp. Much easier to use a matt with a thermostat to knock it up a few degrees automatically when needed


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## viper69 (Nov 24, 2017)

KeiraJ said:


> Also is there anyone in the UK who keeps T's?


yes there are many people with Ts in the UK. I generally keep mine 68-70F night, 70-75F day.

Reactions: Like 2


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## KeiraJ (Nov 24, 2017)

viper69 said:


> yes there are many people with Ts in the UK. I generally keep mine 68-70F night, 70-75F day.


Fantastic. I know I don't want to turn up the heat too much on her but it will be good to give her a bit of heat to keep her more comfortable


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## TomKemp (Nov 25, 2017)

Like Chris said earlier and I agree, You might want to point that burrow entrance in another direction for to be safe. Mine has never bolted out but the opposite, She will retreat further into her burrow if she detects any movement close by. A good bit of vermiculite mixed in with your substrate helps tremendously with retaining moisture. I have also read where a lot of keepers say that they will put a layer of vermiculite in the bottom of an enclosure before adding substrate to hold moisture better for burrowing species that are more dependent on it. C Lividum enjoys zero human interaction and on occasion you might catch her out and about in the middle of the night, which is a rewarding and beautiful sight when you do get to see them.

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## Arachnophoric (Nov 25, 2017)

KeiraJ said:


> Heat matts under the terrarium are the issue not attached to the side.


It's still really not a good idea to use a heat mat. Even when hooked up to a thermostat and/or attached to the side of the enclosure (where it's even less help in what it's supposed to be doing), there's ways that it can be detrimental to your T. And an unnecessary risk when they can be kept fine around room temp. It'd be a shame for you to spend so much time and money on your dream T just for it to end up ill or dead because of something entirely avoidable. Ultimately up to you, but that's just my 2 cents on it. Very gorgeous species, not a good choice in a first tarantula by any means but it looks like you've already made up your mind on this. Good luck!


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## Nonnack (Nov 25, 2017)

How heat mats, can make T ill or dead? If used in correct way ofc. Heat mats, heat cables are very popular in keeping Ts, reptiles, snakes and other stuff, never heard it harmed any animal. And room temperature can vary, I have 24-30C day, and 20-24 night,but if some one have like 20C day and 16C night, some extra heating is needed.​


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## KeiraJ (Nov 25, 2017)

Agreed. I have researched this a lot and come across many reputable owners who use heat matts to substitute their T's temps.

The danger with matts is dehydration. But if I only have the matt on for an hour or so during the day and I provide her with enough water and damp substrate she should be fine.

It's 3 degrees outside with snow on the ground and my flat is a nice 20 degree temperature so I shouldn't need to play with temps that much anyway


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## KeiraJ (Nov 25, 2017)

TomKemp said:


> Like Chris said earlier and I agree, You might want to point that burrow entrance in another direction for to be safe. Mine has never bolted out but the opposite, She will retreat further into her burrow if she detects any movement close by. A good bit of vermiculite mixed in with your substrate helps tremendously with retaining moisture. I have also read where a lot of keepers say that they will put a layer of vermiculite in the bottom of an enclosure before adding substrate to hold moisture better for burrowing species that are more dependent on it. C Lividum enjoys zero human interaction and on occasion you might catch her out and about in the middle of the night, which is a rewarding and beautiful sight when you do get to see them.


Initially I buried the tunnel into the deepest substrate so she would have somewhere to go. I have since corrected this and it is pointing more towards the side of the tank.

I was considering blocking the end of the tunnel so that when I need to remove her I can do so easily and without disturbing her too much keeping both herself and myself safe in the process.

Thoughts on this? 

Theoretically if she was unhappy with this arrangement she could make her own burrow that's deeper.

Many thanks


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## Arachnophoric (Nov 25, 2017)

Nonnack said:


> How heat mats, can make T ill or dead? If used in correct way ofc. Heat mats, heat cables are very popular in keeping Ts, reptiles, snakes and other stuff, never heard it harmed any animal. And room temperature can vary, I have 24-30C day, and 20-24 night,but if some one have like 20C day and 16C night, some extra heating is needed.​


Heat mats are common when being used with reptiles, since they need external heat sources for thermoregulation/digest food, normally higher than average room temperatures can offer. I own several reptiles, and I don't keep my Ts the same way I keep them - it isn't necessary, and fussing over some of the finer points (exact temps/humidity/etc.) is ultimately unnecessary when it comes to tarantulas, IME. They're much simpler than the care my ball pythons and boas require. Tarantulas don't _need_ that external heat source, just a good ambient temp, and as Keira mentioned, the biggest risk they present when unregulated is potential dehydration. Tarantulas will seek out that heat source and camp on it, which can present dehydration risks. Something I wouldn't personally want if not necessary.



KeiraJ said:


> Agreed. I have researched this a lot and come across many reputable owners who use heat matts to substitute their T's temps.
> 
> The danger with matts is dehydration. But if I only have the matt on for an hour or so during the day and I provide her with enough water and damp substrate she should be fine.
> 
> It's 3 degrees outside with snow on the ground and my flat is a nice 20 degree temperature so I shouldn't need to play with temps that much anyway


I'm curious to know which owners you've come across that use heat mats? Not saying that you're lying, nor that it can't be done, but almost anyone I've ran into whom is worth their salt would likely advise against the use of a heat mat. And if you're only plugging it in for an hour at a time, I really don't see it making any difference that's worth having it in the first place, IMO.


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## KeiraJ (Nov 25, 2017)

Arachnophoric said:


> Heat mats are common when being used with reptiles, since they need external heat sources for thermoregulation/digest food, normally higher than average room temperatures can offer. I own several reptiles, and I don't keep my Ts the same way I keep them - it isn't necessary, and fussing over some of the finer points (exact temps/humidity/etc.) is ultimately unnecessary when it comes to tarantulas, IME. They're much simpler than the care my ball pythons and boas require. Tarantulas don't _need_ that external heat source, just a good ambient temp, and as Keira mentioned, the biggest risk they present when unregulated is potential dehydration. Tarantulas will seek out that heat source and camp on it, which can present dehydration risks. Something I wouldn't personally want if not necessary.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious to know which owners you've come across that use heat mats? Not saying that you're lying, nor that it can't be done, but almost anyone I've ran into whom is worth their salt would likely advise against the use of a heat mat. And if you're only plugging it in for an hour at a time, I really don't see it making any difference that's worth having it in the first place, IMO.


I've actually come across many varying reports of using heat mats both online and in books. But I do get your concern.

I just want her to be happy and 20C seems too low. And because I'm in the UK this is a real concern for me


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## Mojo288 (Nov 25, 2017)

Needs alot more sub, my girl has over 12" of substrate depth and uses ALL of its, doesn't use the surface much anymore.

You're current setup barely has any room for her to burrow.

Vermiculite at the bottom of your substrate mix will keep you humidity up.

As for heat mats, your concern shouldn't be dehydration, if your T is dehydrated then it has been neglected.The issue with heat-mats (or any direct heating element) is hot-spots, T's burrow to avoid heat, you can see how a heat source from underneath can cause issues. If you are REALLY worried, just put a space heater in the same room as the T.

As for plants and such, my girl just covered everything with dirt and web to the point that you can't tell there was ever any decorations in there at all, so really it's up to you but within a month or 2 it will look the same regardless lol.

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## Arachnophoric (Nov 25, 2017)

Mojo288 said:


> As for heat mats, your concern shouldn't be dehydration, if your T is dehydrated then it has been neglected.The issue with heat-mats (or any direct heating element) is hot-spots, T's burrow to avoid heat, you can see how a heat source from underneath can cause issues.


Hot spots are definitely a potential problem as well. It was to my knowledge though that tarantulas may seek out a heat source like a heat mat and will hang out next to it, causing potential for them to dehydrate faster with the higher temperatures. Is that not true?


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## Andrea82 (Nov 25, 2017)

@Arachnophoric
Careful who you call 'not worth their salt' .
Many reputable Dutch and Belgium breeders use additional heating in the form of mats or cables.

Heat mats are a point of contention between US and European keepers it seems.
The point with heat mats is how you use them, and which kind you use. A heat mat that gets over 50°C like the sticky ones used for reptiles have no business in or on a Theraphosidae enclosure.
But a mat that gets 38°C is safe to use when put in the upper most corner on the outside. Used with a thermostat, nothing goes wrong.

I use a heatcable that has a core temp of 38°C, the outside of it gets 27, two cm beyond the cable it gets 25. I keep my Ts in a cabinet and have put the cable on the underside of the boards. The enclosures are some 6/10 cm away from it and it's a comfortable 20/22C in them. The cable never touches the enclosure, but the spiders are still comfortable. Living in a country that has very high energy bills, a cable or mat is a more convenient solution. I can't keep my spiders without additional warmth, the house cools down to 14C at night and some rooms barely reach 18C during the day. Which isn't warm enough for the tropical species.

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## KeiraJ (Nov 25, 2017)

I do plan to add more sub for her. It's on order. 



Andrea82 said:


> @Arachnophoric
> Careful who you call 'not worth their salt' .
> Many reputable Dutch and Belgium breeders use additional heating in the form of mats or cables.
> 
> ...


Thankyou!!!!! 

People in America seem not to get how cold it gets in Europe and how expensive space heaters are!!! hahaha


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## Mojo288 (Nov 25, 2017)

Andrea82 said:


> Used with a thermostat, nothing goes wrong.


I'm sorry but i have to disagree; thermostats, rheostats or any other controller can fail, and contact heating elements fail as well,. There is no way to guarantee that electronics won't fail. I will personally never advocate direct / close proximity heating elements to maintain T temperatures when there are other options. My issue isn't they they don't work or that they are ALWAYS harmful, but the fact that they CAN harm the T.



KeiraJ said:


> People in America seem not to get how cold it gets in Europe and how expensive space heaters are


As for the weather in Europe, i am quite familiar with the weather in the UK as i have lived in London for quite some time. Your post failed to mention financial constraints with regards to heating, my main concern is for the well being of the T and the safest method of heating is a space heater. If this is not financially feasible, insulating and raising the ambient temperature of a smaller area would be just as effective, as well as more affordable, and eliminates any possibility of the T being harmed by whatever choice of heating element you go with.

Lastly, my comment about the substrate was directed towards you choice of enclosure, you have front opening doors with a retaining wall of 4 inches or so, there is insufficient depth for you to put in enough substrate.


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## Mojo288 (Nov 25, 2017)

Arachnophoric said:


> It was to my knowledge though that tarantulas may seek out a heat source like a heat mat and will hang out next to it, causing potential for them to dehydrate faster with the higher temperatures. Is that not true?


In that situation i would expect the tarantula to cook itself. Dehydration implies a slow decline, i would expect the T to cook itself pretty quick.

(This would only be for the heating mats i have come across, i personally haven't come across and low temp heat mats like you've mention @Andrea82 and those temps should be safe, assuming nothing went wrong)


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## KeiraJ (Nov 25, 2017)

Mojo288 said:


> I'm sorry but i have to disagree; thermostats, rheostats or any other controller can fail, and contact heating elements fail as well,. There is no way to guarantee that electronics won't fail. I will personally never advocate direct / close proximity heating elements to maintain T temperatures when there are other options. My issue isn't they they don't work or that they are ALWAYS harmful, but the fact that they CAN harm the T.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thankyou for your time and replies.

I did actually mention in the thread about how expensive space heaters are and the fact I'm on a coin meter compounds that fact. Also I live in a small studio apartment. There is no way to segregate the room to help with heat.

Also I work long hours and am not at home very often. So using a heater would not be feasible really as that would just as likely overheat her.

If this tank is too small for her I'm sure she will let me know pretty soonish. Otherwise a sub depth of 9/10 inches I feel personally is enough


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## Mojo288 (Nov 25, 2017)

KeiraJ said:


> Thankyou for your time and replies.
> 
> I did actually mention in the thread about how expensive space heaters are and the fact I'm on a coin meter compounds that fact. Also I live in a small studio apartment. There is no way to segregate the room to help with heat.
> 
> ...


I meant heating a something like a cabinet or cupboard or broom closet, if you just insulated a cheap cabinet and had your heating element inside (even a small one would work for this setup) you would easily be able to maintain higher temps with no risk to your T. And the substrate dam on that exo terra is at 4.5 inches, yes you have maybe 9 inches of sub piled against the back, but maybe 5-6 inches of usable depth, it won't hurt your T, but from personal experience the more burrowing room i'v given my lividum the less defensive she was and more willing to hide/retreat during maintenance.


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## Andrea82 (Nov 25, 2017)

Mojo288 said:


> I'm sorry but i have to disagree; thermostats, rheostats or any other controller can fail, and contact heating elements fail as well,. There is no way to guarantee that electronics won't fail. I will personally never advocate direct / close proximity heating elements to maintain T temperatures when there are other options. My issue isn't they they don't work or that they are ALWAYS harmful, but the fact that they CAN harm the T.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Which is why i never apply a heat mat or cable directly to the enclosure. 

@KeiraJ
An exoterra is not really considered suitable for a burrowing species, unless you put the section with the doors on top. If you don't, you have not enough dept to provide sufficient burrow depth. From what I've gathered C.lividus is even more cranky when it doesn't have a burrow deep enough to feel secure.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Arachnophoric (Nov 25, 2017)

Andrea82 said:


> @Arachnophoric
> Careful who you call 'not worth their salt' .
> Many reputable Dutch and Belgium breeders use additional heating in the form of mats or cables.


I had no idea that was a more popular practice over there, thank you for letting me know. I still personally wouldn't do so, but to each their own. Like Mojo mentioned and I'm sure you already know, heating elements can malfuction - I've had one of the heat mats that was hooked up to a thermostat fail _fantastically_ and hit temps over 100 degrees. It was a good thing I caught it, or my poor boa Jethro would have baked. So if it isn't necessary, like it is with my reptiles that need additional heating for thermoregulation and digestion, I'd rather not use it at all. Just eliminate the risk altogether, ya know?


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## Nonnack (Nov 25, 2017)

Arachnophoric said:


> I've had one of the heat mats that was hooked up to a thermostat fail _fantastically_ and hit temps over 100 degrees


You should sue producer, or something, it could burn down you house
I am not gonna argue about heating, looks like everybody have their own opinion. But about terrarium, this exoterra containers looks nice, but aren't perfect for genera that are obligate burrowers. You can't add deep substrate, there is no ventilation in bottom witch can cause some mold problems, and you will never see you T I am not saying this can't work, but for this genus something like this may be better :


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## Andrea82 (Nov 26, 2017)

Nonnack said:


> You should sue producer, or something, it could burn down you house


I think he means 100 degrees Fahrenheit 

@Arachnophoric 
 But that is still way too hot. Which is why i do not use mats or cables meant for reptiles. I understand the 'better safe than sorry' - practice. A space heater is simply too expensive to keep running 24 hours. I tried that first, and my energy bill went up from 90€ a month to 250€. That's just too much. 
Heat mats and cables can be used safely with a bit of education and common sense, i think. My cable and mats have a protection system, if they get too hot, they just stop working altogether. The only bad result from this is that i have to buy a new one.

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## Arachnophoric (Nov 26, 2017)

Andrea82 said:


> I think he means 100 degrees Fahrenheit
> 
> @Arachnophoric
> But that is still way too hot. Which is why i do not use mats or cables meant for reptiles. I understand the 'better safe than sorry' - practice. A space heater is simply too expensive to keep running 24 hours. I tried that first, and my energy bill went up from 90€ a month to 250€. That's just too much.
> Heat mats and cables can be used safely with a bit of education and common sense, i think. My cable and mats have a protection system, if they get too hot, they just stop working altogether. The only bad result from this is that i have to buy a new one.


Indeed, I did mean Fahrenheit. Pretty sure I'd be one snake less, otherwise  And that's pretty wild that a space heater takes up that much energy! 

Of course they can be used safely, and I believe I _had_ been using it properly/with common sense, having it regulated via a thermostat that the heat mat was plugged directly into. It was an unfortunate malfunction of technology, and I'm just happy I caught it before it could do any real damage. Outside of that one incident I have yet to have any more issues. But if I don't need it, I'm not going to use it. I'm probably just taking for granted that my place stays very comfortable in temperature for both me and my tarantulas. I'm too much of a baby to handle anything a degree below 70F.

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## atraxrobustus (Nov 28, 2017)

KeiraJ said:


> Hey all.
> 
> This is my first attempt at creating a viable new home for my C.Lividum.
> 
> ...


If your refering to the the blue cobalt the species is _C. lividus_, not _C. Lividum._


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## atraxrobustus (Nov 28, 2017)

Nightshady said:


> In general, heat mats are not recommended for T’s. Your best bet is a space heater that’s not blowing directly on the habitat.


The thing is that_ C. lividus_ likes to burrow deeply. They do this to get away from the excessive heat in their natural habitats. - a heat mat will burn it up!!! The best way of handling the issue of heat if you really need to supplement heat is to use a forced air blower controlled by a thermostat  fed to the very TOP of the enclosure at the side Heat will rise, but if the top is already warm, heat then drops through the atmosphere. This mimics natural conditions closely.  Place a  few layers of cheesecloth (Which should be replaced with every cleaning)  on the hose connected to the side terrarium (why I like plastic or plexiglass housing- easy to modify.)  to keep the spider from crawling into the feed pipe when it's off. When it's on- they'll avoid it because they don't like air blowing across them at all.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Andrea82 (Nov 29, 2017)

atraxrobustus said:


> The thing is that_ C. lividus_ likes to burrow deeply. They do this to get away from the excessive heat in their natural habitats. - a heat mat will burn it up!!! The best way of handling the issue of heat if you really need to supplement heat is to use a forced air blower controlled by a thermostat  fed to the very TOP of the enclosure at the side Heat will rise, but if the top is already warm, heat then drops through the atmosphere. This mimics natural conditions closely.  Place a  few layers of cheesecloth (Which should be replaced with every cleaning)  on the hose connected to the side terrarium (why I like plastic or plexiglass housing- easy to modify.)  to keep the spider from crawling into the feed pipe when it's off. When it's on- they'll avoid it because they don't like air blowing across them at all.


Placing something on a Theraphosid enclosure that blows air on it? 
Seems like a good way to piss off an already temperamental species and make sure it never surfaces again... 

Man, i keep repeating myself...
A heatmat or cable does not have to be dangerous at all when used with common sense. For OB you simply place the mat or cable over the enclosure but not touching it. Make sure there is a gap of 5 cm between mat/cable and enclosure. Done. 
Mats and cables should never be under an enclosure for obvious reasons.

Reactions: Like 3


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## KeiraJ (Nov 30, 2017)

Sub is now about 4 inches deeper all round. This is my almost finished setup. I'm ready to have her move in!!

I realise she will likely rearrange the furniture but I'm happy with it the way it is right now. Hopefully she will be too


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## Mojo288 (Nov 30, 2017)

Andrea82 said:


> For OB you simply place the mat or cable over the enclosure but not touching it


I was just wondering if you've actually tried this, i mean placing an ambient heat element OVER an enclosure? I mean, heat rises, i don't really see this working too well (not gonna work like a heat lamp or ceramic heat emmiter).
If it did, (and we were talking about this specific setup) i wouldn't expect it to heat much more than the surface of the sub. if at all. But then again i don't really use this kind of equipment too often, so i could be wrong.


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## Andrea82 (Nov 30, 2017)

Mojo288 said:


> I was just wondering if you've actually tried this, i mean placing an ambient heat element OVER an enclosure? I mean, heat rises, i don't really see this working too well (not gonna work like a heat lamp or ceramic heat emmiter).
> If it did, (and we were talking about this specific setup) i wouldn't expect it to heat much more than the surface of the sub. if at all. But then again i don't really use this kind of equipment too often, so i could be wrong.


It's a bit late right now and i have to het up early tomorrow, but I'll try and use my potato-cam to take a picture of how I've set it up tomorrow.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Love 1


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## Chris LXXIX (Nov 30, 2017)

Mojo288 said:


> As for the weather in Europe, i am quite familiar with the weather in the UK as i have lived in London for quite some time.


And you managed to keep your mental sanity? Amazing, man

Reactions: Like 1


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## atraxrobustus (Nov 30, 2017)

Andrea82 said:


> Placing something on a Theraphosid enclosure that blows air on it?
> Seems like a good way to piss off an already temperamental species and make sure it never surfaces again...
> 
> Man, i keep repeating myself...
> ...


Thats the reason for blowing across not down.


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## atraxrobustus (Nov 30, 2017)

Mojo288 said:


> I was just wondering if you've actually tried this, i mean placing an ambient heat element OVER an enclosure? I mean, heat rises, i don't really see this working too well (not gonna work like a heat lamp or ceramic heat emmiter).
> If it did, (and we were talking about this specific setup) i wouldn't expect it to heat much more than the surface of the sub. if at all. But then again i don't really use this kind of equipment too often, so i could be wrong.


Conductive heat rises UNLESS There's a convective current in the air- Therefore, this WILL work, but your going to be loosing ALOT of energy, and the electric bill will certainly see it.


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## Chris LXXIX (Nov 30, 2017)

Andrea82 said:


> It's a bit late right now and i have to het up early tomorrow


Sleep well, Frisian princess. And dream about me busy *not *killing ants

Reactions: Love 1


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## atraxrobustus (Nov 30, 2017)

Nonnack said:


> You should sue producer, or something, it could burn down you house
> I am not gonna argue about heating, looks like everybody have their own opinion. But about terrarium, this exoterra containers looks nice, but aren't perfect for genera that are obligate burrowers. You can't add deep substrate, there is no ventilation in bottom witch can cause some mold problems, and you will never see you T I am not saying this can't work, but for this genus something like this may be better :





Andrea82 said:


> It's a bit late right now and i have to het up early tomorrow, but I'll try and use my potato-cam to take a picture of how I've set it up tomorrow.


Potato Cam? That's priceless.


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## Nonnack (Nov 30, 2017)

atraxrobustus said:


> Potato Cam? That's priceless.


What do you mean?


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## KeiraJ (Nov 30, 2017)

.


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## Arachnophoric (Dec 1, 2017)

KeiraJ said:


> No. I'm pretty sure the Latin name for the Cobalt blue tarantula is Cyriopagopus Lividum........


It appears that _Cyriopagopus lividus_, the current name of the "Cobalt Blue Tarantula", was previous _Haplopelma lividum_, thus the confusion. So the correct name would indeed be _C. lividus._

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Andrea82 (Dec 1, 2017)

Mojo288 said:


> I was just wondering if you've actually tried this, i mean placing an ambient heat element OVER an enclosure? I mean, heat rises, i don't really see this working too well (not gonna work like a heat lamp or ceramic heat emmiter).
> If it did, (and we were talking about this specific setup) i wouldn't expect it to heat much more than the surface of the sub. if at all. But then again i don't really use this kind of equipment too often, so i could be wrong.


Okay, so i managed to actually get a relatively clear picture .





I keep my spiders in a cabinet that is closed on three sides. As you can see in pic 1 i have placed the cable above the enclosures and (pic 2) on one side, but up by the lid. This way, there is a source of warmth on the sides and above them, without hotspots. Both these enclosures hold burrowers, E.pachypus to the left and A.ezendami on the right.
I don't lose much heat like this and still keep the ventilation adequate. 

Edit: @KeiraJ
The correct name is C.lividus. When it was Haplopelma, the correct name was lividum, but that changed when it became Cyriopagopus

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mojo288 (Dec 1, 2017)

Okaaaaaaaay, that makes much more sense, i thought you meant it would work in open air, but yes it would work great to heat a smaller enclosed space.
That's pretty much what i had in mind when i said to heat a small cabinet/closet.

Reactions: Like 1


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## atraxrobustus (Dec 3, 2017)

Arachnophoric said:


> It appears that _Cyriopagopus lividus_, the current name of the "Cobalt Blue Tarantula", was previous _Haplopelma lividum_, thus the confusion. So the correct name would indeed be _C. lividus._


That i didn't know- that the species had a prior classification in the genius_ Haplopelma_. Definitely explains why I couldn't find _C. lividum_ in the research literature. I was under the influence that the use of_ lividum_ was just an incorrect phonetic of _lividus_. - Where most people don't realize that these names actually do have a precise literal meaning in Latin, and changes in conjugation have effects on meaning in the Latin language.


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## atraxrobustus (Dec 3, 2017)

Andrea82 said:


> Okay, so i managed to actually get a relatively clear picture .
> 
> View attachment 259251
> View attachment 259252
> ...


That's an interesting setup for sure- The thing is that I would be concerned using plastics for them- As arthropods are notorious for being able to absorb chemicals through their exoskeletons- Therefore, I've always elected a glass container intended for the specific purpose. (though, I'll admit, drilling air holes through glass is difficult.)


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## Andrea82 (Dec 3, 2017)

atraxrobustus said:


> That's an interesting setup for sure- The thing is that I would be concerned using plastics for them- As arthropods are notorious for being able to absorb chemicals through their exoskeletons- Therefore, I've always elected a glass container intended for the specific purpose. (though, I'll admit, drilling air holes through glass is difficult.)


Curvers and such have been used for many years and are, as far as i know, safe to use. I always clean them thoroughly before use, and leave them to air out after i made the holes in them. 
For burrowers, a glass enclosure is not really suitable or convenient. You always need to make alterations in ventilation and put them on their ends because you can't give them enough substrate otherwise. I would consider it for my Augacephalus and Ephebopus species, because they are fairly visible, but not for say, my P.muticus who's never out anyways for now. Maybe when she's bigger. 
Most of my spiders aren't adult yet, i will transfer my terrestrial and arboreal species to glass tanks eventually, for their 'final tanks', but not yet.


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