# B. Dubia: "aborted" egg sacs



## SpidaFly (Jun 4, 2012)

In my Dubia colony I recently I noticed a single female who left her ootheca extended for two days. On the third day I found the ootheca on the floor of the colony on the third day.

What could have happened here? 

On another occasion I had a female that appeared to be having severe health problems (missing legs, had trouble getting around, etc.)  I found her on her back several times. I eventually built an "ICU" for her (moist paper towel, chunk of water gel, chunk of orange, chunk of dog food). After 2 days I found that she had dropped her egg sac. Half the nymphs hatched, half were brownish and didn't hatch. She didn't fare so well - she appeared to prolapse her insides out her behind - white membrane appearing to contain various organs. :unhappy::unhappy::unhappy::unhappy::unhappy: I can not abide undue suffering of any animals that I keep, even feeders, so I cut her into several pieces and put the pieces in the lake behind my house.

So.. I'm not sure what could be the problem here. Maybe someone can offer some advice?

Conditions:

45 gallon bin insulated on the outside with Reflectix.
Dog food and fresh orange chunks every 2 days.
Fresh water gel every 2 days.
Humidity is ~60%.
Heat is supplied by a 2' long flexwatt on a rheostat. Spots on the bottom range from 90F to 100F. Temperatures in the vertical egg crates range from 80s-90s.

Any ideas?


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## tarantulagirl10 (Jun 4, 2012)

I'm no dubia expert. I just got mine a few months ago. I can tell that you are taking more time caring for them than I am. I have no idea of humidity, temp, etc. I have mine in a big sterlite type bin filled with verticle egg crates. I keep a food that is dog food, cat food, chicken food chopped in a blender in there at all times. I offer veggies every couple of days. That's it. I bother them as little as possible and I have babies out the wazoo. I have no extra heat and my t room is 75 at night and daytime temp gets to around 85. I have heard that if they get scared they will drop the baby thingy (that's the scientific term I think ).

Reactions: Like 1


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## Tenodera (Jun 4, 2012)

It's called an ootheca. 

They abort oothecae when stressed, or if the ooth is damaged somehow, or if they need the nutrients for their own survival. It's possible that this female got in the middle of a lot of male fights and that stressed her out... Although it's a bit of a far-fetched idea. Seconding tarantulagirl's setup that you don't need that much heat.


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## SpidaFly (Jun 4, 2012)

Tenodera said:


> It's possible that this female got in the middle of a lot of male fights and that stressed her out... Although it's a bit of a far-fetched idea.


Interesting. There does appear to be a "hub" of activity on one of the egg crates... they have a LOT of room and all areas do have roaches, but there is one crate that is so packed they can hardly move. I don't know why they don't leave it and move into more spacious areas. The temperature isn't any different or anything... it's all equally dark, especially at night...



> Seconding tarantulagirl's setup that you don't need that much heat.


Ok. Yeah heat has been such a weird thing to figure out. I've seen people talking about a whole range of what they think are "optimal" breeding temperatures. But it all seems very handwavey so since I suppose I'm on the higher end of the temps I've seen I'll turn it down a bit.

Any thoughts on what could have caused the prolapse+partially dessicated ootheca?

And another question: What levels of my interference are sufficient to cause "stress"? I check on the egg crates to remove dead, clean up messes, and observe their behavior every other day or so.


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## Tenodera (Jun 4, 2012)

I'm not sure if it's possible to state a "stress threshold". 
The prolapse and unhealthy-looking ooth suggest the female might have some internal abnormality. I've had certain females who just can't seem to carry an ooth successfully. Just another thought.
If this is the first time you've observed a dropped ooth in the colony then your husbandry is probably fine!


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## SpidaFly (Jun 4, 2012)

Tenodera said:


> If this is the first time you've observed a dropped ooth in the colony then your husbandry is probably fine!


It is indeed the first time. On the other hand this colony has only been going for a couple months. For a long time I was thinking they just weren't mating at all - never saw them mating and didn't have nymphs until recently - and I'm thinking these nymphs may have come in with some females I ordered recently!


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## SpidaFly (Jun 5, 2012)

Just found another dead female. This one didn't appear to have an egg sac in her, and was a fairly young female as well. Something must be wrong with my husbandry.


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## Low (Jun 5, 2012)

Theres probably nothing wrong with ur husbandry....stuff happens, no big deal....

Roaches gonna roach, right?

Seriously tho...dont worry so much, give them food, hydration ALL the time, heat, ventilation and leave them alone...like, forget they r there alltogether...ive got a colony well in excess of 8-10000 roaches and I only open their containers like 3 times a month...
Although i only let the temps get up to about 85-90 max....100 seems excessive.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using Tapatalk


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## Galapoheros (Jun 6, 2012)

Sounds like you got "older" adults, legs falling off is a clue there, prolapse=roach menopause haha, jk.  I think you will probably have better luck luck later with raising the younger ones.


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## SpidaFly (Jun 6, 2012)

Galapoheros said:


> Sounds like you got "older" adults, legs falling off is a clue there, prolapse=roach menopause haha, jk.  I think you will probably have better luck luck later with raising the younger ones.


Possibly.

It also occurs to me that there was a shipping accident when I ordered said roaches... they ended up going from the midwest to washington state and then finally to my place in arizona. Quite a journey.  By the time they got here several were dead, one had given birth, they were cannibalizing, and I think a nymph had managed to chew a hold through the corner of the box. Most survived but I had one dead every night for about a week. It's possible that the female I found today is from that shipment, and it's also possible that it's the one that dropped the egg case I mentioned earlier. (It was a smaller female that had the ootheca out for two days in a row, and it was indeed a smaller female that I found dead today.)


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## Louise E. Rothstein (Jun 6, 2012)

The accident you describe would have stressed them out something awful.
And there may have also been overheating...although many roaches like it over 80 degrees over 90 degrees might have been a bit much.


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## SpidaFly (Jun 6, 2012)

Louise E. Rothstein said:


> The accident you describe would have stressed them out something awful.
> And there may have also been overheating...although many roaches like it over 80 degrees over 90 degrees might have been a bit much.


Yeah. Just what I was thinking.

I'm going to rebuild my roach bin this weekend with 2x flexwatt strips on front and back sides instead of the one on the bottom. That'll make for more uniform temps and I won't have to have such high temps on the bottom surface just to keep the upper areas of the box warm.


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## Tenodera (Jun 6, 2012)

That's probably one of the best causes for this situation: a past event that wasn't your fault! 
Evened temps should also help the colony do better now. Will it be less expensive too?


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## EbonyKatana1664 (Jun 19, 2012)

Sounds like a fluke roach to me. ya know, gettin trampled, old, etc.


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## icu2 (May 1, 2020)

Dubias are fairly strange to breed. Temps around 90 are fine. Dry food as in dog or cat pellets is all good. No water needed as the fresh produce is sufficient. She may have expelled her ootheca due to low humidity within the tub, but difficult to say. I mist my tubs very lightly twice a week. Not wet as the frass gets moist & bacteria sets in. As for stress they are sociable insects and prefer quiet and dark. If stressed out they will not breed easily. I never remove the nymphs in my colonies but just split the totes/tubs by removing half the egg flats and put them into a new tub. Oranges are believed to stimulate breeding but this is not proven. Fresh veggies I use carrots, gems or potato (all raw obviously) I seldom use oranges as this encourages fruit flies or the little vinegar fly. My tubs are around 50 litres each (apologies not sure of gallons as I'm from South Africa) and I only split the colonies if I see overcrowding. Normally around 3000 including nymphs before I split. I assume at a rough guess I should have about 30-40k now besides the other insects.


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