# Phoneutria spec. - Fresh imported



## Stefan2209 (Jun 5, 2006)

Hey all,

just got in from Amazonia, a quite massive Phoneutria spec. This lady boost a slim 2" body and ridicolous 6" legspan.
Take a look at that butt and start thinking about offsprings...

Quite interesting for all those, that like to believe in colouration: looks like P. nigriventer but the red marking at the undersite of the abdomen is missing in this specimen....
Also, there´s one other "typical" Phoneutria mark missing in this specimen...

By behavior it´s a quite calm lady, just wants to eat all day... :worship: 

Enjoy:






















Greetings,

Stefan


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## sammyp (Jun 5, 2006)

She's lovely stefan, but OMG - 6 inches??


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## Stefan2209 (Jun 5, 2006)

sammyp said:
			
		

> She's lovely stefan, but OMG - 6 inches??


Yeah,

6".

They can even get bigger than this..., but it´s still big enough...., for a start.

 

Greetings,

Stefan


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## Gigas (Jun 5, 2006)

6 inches! and fingers crossed shes gravid


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## Steven (Jun 5, 2006)

Stefan2209 said:
			
		

> Also, there´s one other "typical" Phoneutria mark missing in this specimen...


sorry for my ignorance concerning Phoneutria :8o 
but if it's missing a "mark" why are ya sure it's a Phoneutria spec. ? :? 



			
				Stefan2209 said:
			
		

> By behavior it´s a quite calm lady, just wants to eat all day... :worship:


or do you mean it's missing the "typical" behaviour ?

if it's really a not so agressive spec. mmmm i might know someone who would love to take some slings of your hands :razz:


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## Crotalus (Jun 5, 2006)

Very nice spider! Which country does she comes from?


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## NotaSpider (Jun 6, 2006)

Which is the largest Phoneutria species that you know of Stefan? 

For that matter, are they the biggest ctenids?


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## Jonathan (Jun 7, 2006)

Hello,
She is a whopper!!!!!
Did you return w/ any other species?


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## Stefan2209 (Jun 10, 2006)

Hi all,

thanks for the interest.

@ Steven:

I´m pretty sure about it being a Phoneutria ssp., as the spider is showing some very typical markings, looks mostly like P. nigriventer which would be fitting by it´s locality.
On the other hand, it´s lacking some of the markings which are said to be present in this species. As i´m not too deep into this markings / colouration thing, i just take this for another clue regarding the varieties of such in this genus.
To my opinion the most strange thing in this spider is it´s very calm temper, quite unusual, from what i know about Phoneutria ssp. I´ve kept such spiders since years and never came across specimen that one could dub "calm or peaceful". Come 2006, this is the second species i get hold of that is just quite calm tempered. The first ones had been the P. fera´s from Oyapok. Interesting, are there more such "pet-Phoneutria" out there?

@ Lelle

Brazil....

Don´t ask how.  

@ Notaspider

Whoa, what a question!

Let me answer it this way: this lady is one of the biggest i´ve seen so far, regarding body-size. By legspan, i´ve seen P. fera´s from french-guyane that were bigger. The females of that species had some 16cm legspans (6,3") and the males ridicolous 18cm (7").

As i´ve seen Ancylometes rufus getting even bigger than that, i wouldn´t be surprised to learn that there are still Phoneutria ssp. out there, that can grow even bigger, but it´s hard to talk about certain species here, as much depends on environmental values, like locality and even more important season. Furthermore one has to keep in mind, that there are still many areas in different countries in south-america that are still nearly complete "black holes" when it comes to knowledge about distributed species in that areas. Who knows, what´s lurking around there...

@ Jonathan

I hadn´t been there, so i couldn´t return.  

No other Phoneutria for that matter....

Greetings,

Stefan


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## NotaSpider (Jun 10, 2006)

Thanks Stefan. 

I guess it was naive of me, because there are probably some equally large species that have not been described yet or that least not very well known.

I only recently figured out that these Ancylometes species were actually Ctenids and not Pisaurids.

This forum is certainly an 'eye opener'.


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## orcrist (Jun 11, 2006)

That puts the first and third pictures at approximately lifesize on my monitor.

Wow. That is a beautiful spider. 

Are the ctenids the dominant large hunting spiders down there? Or are there lycosa and pisaurids of similar size in that range? I know Dolomedes okefenokensis is supposed to attain up to 6 inches in legspan in the SE USA, so it would be interesting if there were close relatives reaching even larger sizes in the tropics.


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## Stefan2209 (Jun 14, 2006)

Hi guys,

@ Notaspider

Not naive to my opinion, info is scarce and often very hard to come by. Even if you manage to find it, you have to re-check it on a regular basis, as even the Pro´s need to re-evaluate the "known facts" quite often.
There´s just too mutch out there, that we just still don´t know....

On the other hand, exactly this makes this hobby so damn interesting, everyday you learn something new...  

@ Orcrist

I really don´t know, if one could dub the ctenids "dominant" down there or not. Fact is, that the genus´Ancylometes and Phoneutria boost some of the largest true spiders on the south-american continent, by body-sizes and legspan as well.

There´s very little info about the max sizes of south-american lycosids availbale, but i doubt, that one will find a wolf that reaches 6" legspans. With Pisaurids that could be a different matter, as with some other families... Take Trechaleidae for an example, there are some species within this family that reach 6" legspans, too, however they don´t show that massive bodies that Ancylometes and Phoneutria often display.


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## NewGriot (Jun 14, 2006)

*Phoneutria*

My adult boy of P.nigriventer is still waiting for a gurl   
Just kidding.

Hope one of the other 5 subadult specimen that I keep will grow to a girl.


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## Stefan2209 (Jul 10, 2006)

Gigus said:
			
		

> 6 inches! and fingers crossed shes gravid


Hi,

lookey....  












FINGERS CROSSED!  

Greetings,

Stefan


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## Steven (Jul 10, 2006)

mmmmmm yammy :drool: 

good luck Stefan !


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## Gigas (Jul 10, 2006)

WOW! Amazing Stefan! you are a very lucky man indeed,That Sac is Huge! is it anchored to the ground by web lines? 
Very best of luck with the slings, looks like your in for quite a few!


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## Tarantula (Jul 10, 2006)

good luck with that one!

Sad thing with Phoenutria babies is that they tend to die very very easy.


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## Tarantula (Jul 10, 2006)

Interesting reading about Phoenutria:

http://www.minaxtarantulas.net/artiklar/phoneutria/phoneutria_e.html


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## Crotalus (Jul 10, 2006)

MetalDragon_boy said:
			
		

> Interesting reading about Phoenutria:
> 
> http://www.minaxtarantulas.net/artiklar/phoneutria/phoneutria_e.html


Im pretty sure he allready read that

Edit: forgot: GOOD LUCK hatching the sack and rearing the small ones!


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## Henry Kane (Jul 10, 2006)

Best of luck Stefan! The only thing creepier (And by creepy, I mean totally sweet!  ) than that big momma will be a jillion of her babies running around her.

Keep us posted. 

Gary


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## Stefan2209 (Jul 11, 2006)

Hi,

thanks for your comments guys!

@ Gigus

Yep, it is big, haven´t seen such a big sized sac so far...
The lady anchored this thing indeed on some web lines, looks like some kind of holding-construct. Not too unusual to my experience, as i´ve seen this with nearly every other Phoneutria sac aswell.

@ MetalDragon_boy

Half way right, P. nigriventer has an incredible mortality, that´s definitily true for most accounts i´ve heard and self-experienced so far.
However, this is not in all cases true for the other species, take the actual "P. nigriventer" slings for an example, that are around in europe by now: they´re of the former "P. keyserlingi"  species and are quite ok to raise. Not that easy, but with mortality around 50% i´m not gonna complain. Some other keepers i know of had even lower mortality rates till now, what more can one ask for?
P. fera, which originated from french-guyane and had been bred in germany in the late 90´s is another example: with this species, too, we experienced mortality around 50%, which is plain ok, if one considers the amount of slings per sac.
Another story are still the actual P. fera cf Oyapok: for now i take them as just as easy to raise, as Cupiennius spec., really no big deal. As long as one just keeps them humid, gives them plenty of food and room to molt, they just grow like crazy.
While this all may sound a bit optimistic, i have to point out, that if this sac should hatch, it´s nevertheless back to scratch-board: not all Phoneutria species are that hard to raise, however, nobody knows about this one...
If all plays out to my liking, i´ll hopefully have the chance to find out for myself.

@ Crotalus

Sure, i know that site! Damn right, indeed a good read about this genus, quite rare to find.  
Yeah, the sacs produced, now it´s up top hatching.... I really hope that this one will turn out the "real deal", i´ve had enough of that fake sacs...
Will keep you updated.

@ Bile Drunk

Thanks!
Have to admit, the pure size of the sac gets me a bit nervous: i´m well aware, WHAT will come out of that, however, HOW MANY is a very interesting question....
Let me try the answer this way: to my very best knowledge, the highest amount of slings (that had been counted, of course) produced by a Phoneutria was 1303 (TRETZEL 1957)....
For the first sac of course, the follow up contained "only" some 800....
More than enough, i hope, for not only europe, if all works well.

Greetings,

Stefan


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## Tarantula (Jul 11, 2006)

Lelle when you bred nigriventer didnt you have alot of babies then? 2000 or something like that?


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## Crotalus (Jul 11, 2006)

MetalDragon_boy said:
			
		

> Lelle when you bred nigriventer didnt you have alot of babies then? 2000 or something like that?


I didnt count them but I had two sacks hatched out


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## Stefan2209 (Jul 12, 2006)

Crotalus said:
			
		

> I didnt count them but I had two sacks hatched out


Hi,

exactly.

The number given by me referred to the account of one, single sac.

As Lelle correctly stated, they often produce more than just one. My last wc female produced me three nice (fake) sacs, one after the other...

Max record for produced sacs is 8, if i remember this right, however the last sacs produced only very slim amounts of slings and the spiders died very soon and to 100%...

Given the pure size of this one, i guess, i´d already be satisfied (and the european market flooded), if just one will hatch...

Greetings,

Stefan


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## Tarantula (Jul 12, 2006)

Im interested if succsessful though! :drool:


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## Scolopendra55 (Jul 12, 2006)

You should sell some slings (once the sac hatches that is)!


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## Crotalus (Jul 14, 2006)

Stefan2209 said:
			
		

> Hi,
> 
> exactly.
> 
> ...


I even had a third sack but it was infertile
Good luck with this one (and yes im interested in slings!)


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## aftershock (Jul 15, 2006)

and I'm of course also interested in slings...

´Get in touch when it's time...


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## littleworkinman (Jul 17, 2006)

*Phoneutria fera*

I would very much like to have a Phoneutria fera, if anyone can help please let me know


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## Stefan2209 (Jul 22, 2006)

Hi all,

just too hot around here to make much words, so just one has to be enough:

G-R-O-W-I-N-G !  







Greetings,

Stefan


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## Stefan2209 (Jul 24, 2006)

Stefan2209 said:
			
		

> G-R-O-W-I-N-G !


Hi there,

two words:

G-R-O-W-N    O-U-T

Enjoy:



















Grinning greets,

Stefan


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## Crotalus (Jul 24, 2006)

Congrats on the babies! Make sure there is no way they can get out... believe me they are escape artists


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## Steven (Jul 24, 2006)

congratz Stefan !

that's a HUGE grey cloud of instars


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## BugToxin (Jul 24, 2006)

Very nice!!!:drool:  I don't scare easily, but having that lovely spawn in my house might do the trick.


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## Tarantula (Jul 24, 2006)

Congrats! Im interested in MANY!


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## Gigas (Jul 24, 2006)

OMFG Stefan i dont know whether to congratulate or sympathize with that amount of Slings! Goodluck with raising them,


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## bengerno (Jul 25, 2006)

Congrats Stefan2209! :worship: 
Avesome..hope you can raising them easily!  
If you wanna get rid of some.....


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## T.Raab (Jul 25, 2006)

Hi Stefan, 

how many offspring is normaly in a Ctenidae egg sac? Looks like very high number of spiderlings.


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## aftershock (Jul 25, 2006)

Congratulations man!!!

Really nice.

Good luck in separating the slings..

Get in touch when it's time...


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## sammyp (Jul 25, 2006)

OMG! Well done Stefan! Good luck rearing those little sweeties. If they were in my house, i'd be giving myself cold sweats by trying to count them everyday....


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## Spike (Jul 25, 2006)

Congrats on the hatch I hope you will consider parting with some


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## El Johano (Jul 25, 2006)

Congratulations 
I'm also interested in a few if you feel like you have too many


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## danread (Jul 25, 2006)

Hi Stefan,

what are you planning on feeding them on? I know fruit flies are probably the easiest, but there seems to be quite a lot of evidence that a fruit fly diet isn;t good for spiderlings. They look a bit too small for micro-crickets as well...


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## Stefan2209 (Jul 25, 2006)

Hi all,

as you may understand, i´m even a "bit" more busy now, than i´ve alreday been before...:8o 

Just some quick answers:

There´ll definitiley be specimen available for purchase, i just can´t take care of THAT lot.

However, the sac hatched just yesterday evening and kept hatching through the night, so the youngs are just as "fresh" as can be.

Therefore, i gonna keep them all together, till they molted for the first time.

Feeding? Right now there´s no prey needed, they still have that yolk (?) from the sac and won´t accept prey until their first molt.

First task however is, to catch the mother out of the tank, damn, i´m a lucky guy.  

Greetings,

Stefan


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## Raqua (Jul 26, 2006)

Hello Stefen.

Have you already counted them ? 
Are they already fast this time ??? Or esasily stressed ?
What happens if you blow on them ? Do they run away or stay and hide in the nest ?


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## Stefan2209 (Jul 26, 2006)

T.Raab said:
			
		

> Hi Stefan,
> 
> how many offspring is normaly in a Ctenidae egg sac? Looks like very high number of spiderlings.


Hi Timo,

i´m sorry, i just over-read your question.

How many in a Ctenidae eggsac?

Sorry again, i really don´t know.

Highest documented count in a Phoneutria sac, however, had been 1303...

Don´t think it´s a record number in this one, by pure estimation i´d guess something between 600 and 800....

Still enough.

@ Raqua

Still sorry:

I really don´t feel like blowing at the babies or any other thing just to see how they´d react.
They´re fresh-hatched and still nymphs, so mobility is still very controllable.

Greetings,

Stefan


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## Gigas (Jul 31, 2006)

Hi Stefan, have you got an update on the little guys?


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## Stefan2209 (Aug 1, 2006)

Gigus said:
			
		

> Hi Stefan, have you got an update on the little guys?


Hi Gigus,

i have of course an update, not only on these ones, but on several other species aswell.

Problem is i just don´t have the time to post too much right now, as i´m busy with some other "spider-things"...

Just some days of patience....  

Greetings,

Stefan


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## CedrikG (Aug 1, 2006)

THAT is very impressive, Good work and good luck :clap:


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## Gigas (Aug 1, 2006)

Well i eagerly await your update, *waits*


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## Sof (Aug 30, 2006)

Me too, this spider looks awesome!


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## Crotalus (Sep 13, 2006)

Stefan2209 said:


> Highest documented count in a Phoneutria sac, however, had been 1303...


Sounds quite low acctually.
The number of escapees in my apartment seemed much higher then that! 

Hows it going with the slings? Any more sacks?

The adult female looks very much like a P. nigriventer I had, from the atlantic coast Brazil.


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## Stefan2209 (Sep 14, 2006)

Crotalus said:


> Sounds quite low acctually.
> The number of escapees in my apartment seemed much higher then that!
> 
> Hows it going with the slings? Any more sacks?
> ...


Hi Lelle,

yeah, it´s the highest number that had been exactly counted. May very well be, they yield even higher numbers with other sacs, but who dares to count....

The slings are ok for now, they have some 1,5cm legspan right now and eat like crazy. Looks like losses will be very few from now on.

Any more sacs? Sure, expecting the second one to hatch every single day now.... Guess soon enough it´ll be time to have a talk with Martin, if yu remember what i mean....

I wouldn´t be too surprised to learn that this specimen is indeed P. nigriventer. Fortunately there´s one hobbyist here in germany who´s quite interested in taxonomy and who alreday agreed to do an exermination, once the lady is dead, so time will make sure.

Greetings,

Stefan


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## Stefan2209 (Dec 17, 2006)

Hi all,

Phoneutria spec. Paraguay - Reloaded

No. 1 is pictured here, No. 2 was a dud, No. 3 was the real deal again, take a look for yourself:



















Seems like 200 - 300 or something.

Now it´s feeding time again. My lady seems still to be pretty fit, maybe No. 4 is a realistic option... 

Sale is exclusively done by Vogelspinnenzucht

Inquiries welcome.

Have a nice sunday!

Greetings,

Stefan


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## Gigas (Dec 17, 2006)

Nice Steffan! When will the young be up for sale?


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## Stefan2209 (Dec 21, 2006)

Gigus said:


> Nice Steffan! When will the young be up for sale?


Hi Chris,

i dumped the offsprings yesterday, guess selling will start at the beginning of the new year.

Crazy times, just two years ago, when i decided to go back to the Phoneutria´s, everybody was eager to tell how impossible these were to get hold of.

Some 700 days later, there have just some 1200 offsprings at all produced just here, not to mention the other successfull breedings of guys like Thomas and Chris.
Next to that, there are already more sacs cooking from even other Phoneutria species (though not here with me).

To sum it up: once impossible to get hold of one single specimen, now there are three different species (out of five known) here and one species in two colour-forms, as it seems.

Now it´s time for raising and breeding. Next will be to mark P. fera for target...  

Greetings,

Stefan


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## Gigas (Dec 21, 2006)

Just goes to show how important captive breeding is, your doing a good thing for the hobby Stefan!

Good luck wit future breedings.


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## Crotalus (Dec 21, 2006)

Was it your own breeding or was it a gravid WC female?


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## Gigas (Dec 21, 2006)

Crotalus said:


> Was it your own breeding or was it a gravid WC female?


I belive the female was gravid WC


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## Stefan2209 (Dec 22, 2006)

Gigus said:


> Just goes to show how important captive breeding is, your doing a good thing for the hobby Stefan!
> 
> Good luck wit future breedings.


Hi,

if this is indeed a good thing is still to be seen...

The producing of the offsprings was just the first step, so far, so ok. Next is keeping them alive and getting them to adulthood, so far (3 inches legspans), so ok.
Success will just then really be achieved, when the offsprings are adult and have produced slings themselfes...

Strange times, many people around here are apparently more than optimistic, regarding the future of Phoneutria in europe. Look what´s around now: P. nigriventer (Sao Paolo), P. spec. Paraguay (P. nigriventer, too?), P. reidyi, P. boliviensis...
Who will do all that breeding? Who has at least realistic chances in succeed in breeding?

There have never been many breeders, but by now, the few there are have never been so lonely.
I´m quite concerned about this. Many people scream "hooray", buy the slings and next to everybody seems to think "oh well, i don´t have to do the breeding, there are the guys who do it".
Well, thanks for that, what, if just one the few breeders won´t have success with his attempts... That could easily wipe the one or another species out of captive care again.

@ Lelle

Gravid WC, unfortunately. If i could have mated her myself, i´d have a male at hands, which means in turn, the species would be taxonomical id´ed by now.

Greetings,

Stefan


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## Emanuele (Dec 22, 2006)

Hi Stefan. Couldn't you identify her by the epigynum?
If you want I could try to identifiy it for you, I only need some Phoneutria publications and the specimen in alchool 70%.
Cheers
Ema


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## Crotalus (Dec 22, 2006)

Hows it going with the clutch you got in the summer?

/Lelle


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## Stefan2209 (Dec 23, 2006)

Emanuele said:


> Hi Stefan. Couldn't you identify her by the epigynum?
> If you want I could try to identifiy it for you, I only need some Phoneutria publications and the specimen in alchool 70%.
> Cheers
> Ema


Hi Ema,

thanks for the offer, but the female is only promised to "Improver" for ID. Bastian has gained a lot of knowledge this year, regarding the taxonomical ID´ing of spiders and especially of Phoneutria.

He has the papers and the equipment and the two most important things: he has experience (it was he who id éd the P. boliviensis and the P. reidyi) and good commo with Diana Silva if he should happen to have troubles.

Greetings,

Stefan


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## Stefan2209 (Dec 23, 2006)

Crotalus said:


> Hows it going with the clutch you got in the summer?
> 
> /Lelle


Hi,

good.

16 specimen left, the biggest have alreday legspans around 2-3 inch (5-6cm).

Nevertheless, i´m a bit concerned, as i was informed this week, one other breeder here had the extreme "luck" to raise 12 specimen of P. nigriventer without any troubles, just to realize he had 12 females...

However, i´ve got still some 50 slings from the last sac here, guess i´ll try to raise at least some 5 to 10 specimen from that batch to adulhood, too. Just to make sure.

5 more spiders went as a present to switzerland this fall, so there is some kind of back-up, too, if things should go all wrong.

We´ll see, so far, it´s pretty ok.

Greetings,

Stefan


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## Maybrick (Dec 26, 2006)

Hi Stefan,
heres your backup ;-). Since we met us, there were no problem with raising these guys (no loss): They are well growing (approximately same size as your specimen), they are greedy and dont really care about prey-size ;-)


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## Stefan2209 (Dec 27, 2006)

Maybrick said:


> Hi Stefan,
> heres your backup ;-). Since we met us, there were no problem with raising these guys (no loss): They are well growing (approximately same size as your specimen), they are greedy and dont really care about prey-size ;-)


Hi Marco,

glad to see the babies are doing fine.

My biggest specimen have some 6-7cm (3") legspans now and develop some temperament...  

Better think about breeding, big things have come to Europe...

Greetings,

Stefan


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## HW Auer (Dec 27, 2006)

Just for your pleasure...

With eggsac and - the result.


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## ShadowBlade (Dec 27, 2006)

*sniff... I want some...


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## Stefan2209 (Dec 28, 2006)

HW® said:


> Just for your pleasure...
> 
> With eggsac and - the result.


Just one word:

G R E A T,

that should make sure about the captive care of Phoneutria boliviensis in 2007  

Greetings,

Stefan


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## Stefan2209 (Dec 31, 2006)

Hi there,

did some shooting today and started feeling bad about giving all that attention to the new introduced creepies and neglecting my very own babies. So i decided to snap a few pics of one of them, too.

Here we go, specimen from the first batch that hatched at the end of july:












The last batch had just molted for the first time. Got some 30 slings set up communally and added a big load of micro-crix.
Time will show, which ones are going to make it.

Greetings,

Stefan


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## Maybrick (Jan 6, 2007)

I have made a new pic of the paraguayan Phoneutria, just beautiful:


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## SouthernStyle (Jan 6, 2007)

THAT definatly is an Awesome pic! Good Lookin' too!


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