# Color morphs in Phidippus regius



## Gogyeng (Aug 2, 2019)

Back in time there were three established morphs in Florida alone, with substantial color and size variations,

Quoting @xenesthis, at the end of an old thread in 2009:
http://arachnoboards.com/threads/huge-p-audax.168205/

'P. regius has three distinct color morphs. The black morph is in North FL. The gray morph is in central FL and the orange morph is in south FL. In central FL, all three can be found, but the gray morph represented the most.'

However Phidippus regius has a wide distribution and can be found beyong North America, well across the Caribean and most of West Indies, including Cuba, with very colorful morphs there indeed.  For instance the "Soroa" variant, has a vivid orange and black abdomen in females. Do you know any other morphs?

'Soroa' morph Pics from phidippus.eu :
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1386430174754677&type=3&__xts__[0]=68.ARDXN96CVYN67_y92_1aXcn5jWIsFyohFZp6m4pFiMgPkW2ocMjuAXmBxVJqHQD_7i2VdUdWv3op8aRXM-9sB65GuPCjluDAkpic5l9rb5PNen1AZVX2_38EezMJqtDR5Vsvyz0JbAS-X5q3Ih0axX-UOlbeHvL4J9EAVh01V-7Sox3cGXUkSeT_dx75HuUoamPLvfsY8by_jy1hJRIBCG_t-od3RtBL35WvF5DmakTfr5NDUWZsHtgclL_4-3jpgZG-MXvKeIG6W0r8s8XiwiGd5YBRENSzyW8LOti2XovTtnb6bnc0y68O9dTeUS1lF6WwXF_j5Enwwn5gKuDDDwblOO0_7cszUe6PxJd4LJwNMzG_MJMVP_VMCWM4JEEbgio0Mt11POMPbUCAcAq2dRYjrqvFfGtYy_D1neCeMlw3JPxV7U1KaXQRvNXmxzMBpecx4Vq1LCJtHA4&__tn__=-UC-R


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## Tortuga (Aug 2, 2019)

How do you tell the difference between P. audax and P. regius black morphs?

*Now I see, regius has coloration under the primary set of eyes and audax has significantly less hair on the carapace.


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## Carnivoran (Aug 2, 2019)

It is both interesting, and unfortunate, to see the lack of genetic analyses on Phidippus. All data seems relatively old and based on morphometric studies (although there is nothing inherently wrong with these works). I have a background in mammalian studies, so it does seem rather stark in comparison. If only people knew the complexity of jumping spider behavior!

I will be watching this thread, as I wonder if we are dealing with subspecies, cryptic species and/or large superspecies, but perhaps more fine-tuned than the Phidippus otiosus group designation. It would be great for some genetic studies on one of the Phidippus groups to determine the genetic distance between members of these "groups" based on morphometrics.

Reactions: Love 1


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## BenLeeKing (Aug 3, 2019)

Carnivoran said:


> It is both interesting, and unfortunate, to see the lack of genetic analyses on Phidippus. All data seems relatively old and based on morphometric studies (although there is nothing inherently wrong with these works). I have a background in mammalian studies, so it does seem rather stark in comparison. If only people knew the complexity of jumping spider behavior!
> 
> I will be watching this thread, as I wonder if we are dealing with subspecies, cryptic species and/or large superspecies, but perhaps more fine-tuned than the Phidippus otiosus group designation. It would be great for some genetic studies on one of the Phidippus groups to determine the genetic distance between members of these "groups" based on morphometrics.


Here’s a weird case~ Phidippus octopuctatis is not normally found in Washington, but there were sitings of a mysterious “WA P. octopuctatus”
https://bugguide.net/node/view/694426/bgimage

Reactions: Like 1


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## ArachnidBoi (Aug 3, 2019)

Phidippus is a headache of a genus. Even after the revision, it needs work.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Carnivoran (Aug 4, 2019)

Not sure if this is significant but the majority of the time, the iridescence of my male is blue. If I recall, most of P. regius males display an iridescent green, with  blue hints. I also tried a UV light to see if there was additional patterning augmented or made .


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## Gogyeng (Aug 6, 2019)

A 1987 phylogenetic study puts P.regius and P. Otiosus the closest, well within an 'Audax super-group'. Some genetic markers were used and confirmed some morphometry cladistics by Edwards in the 80s. But they did not go in detail within each species, and elucidate how much variaty/ homogeneity was within each.

http://www.americanarachnology.org/JoA_free/JoA_v14_n3/JoA_v14_p385.pdf

Reactions: Informative 1


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## BenLeeKing (Aug 6, 2019)

Gogyeng said:


> A 1987 phylogenetic study puts P.regius and P. Otiosus the closest, well within an 'Audax super-group'. Some genetic markers were used and confirmed some morphometry cladistics by Edwards in the 80s. But they did not go in detail within each species, and elucidate how much variaty/ homogeneity was within each.
> 
> http://www.americanarachnology.org/JoA_free/JoA_v14_n3/JoA_v14_p385.pdf


P. regius & otiosus can create viable hybrids too~ So it's not too surprising.


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## Gogyeng (Aug 6, 2019)

Found a more recent revision on Phidippus genus, with distribution maps included. By Edwards, 2004

P. regius and otiosus share roughly the same areas in Florida, but NOT in Caribean  Bahamas and Cuba.
In fact the Cuban / Bahamas phidippus does not normally yield fertile eggsacks with the mainland (References breeders here in UK). So one wonders if in fact the caribean morphs represent in fact different subspecies, rather than simply locality. 

The next closest to P.regius is P.diantus according to cladistics, end of the paper
http://peckhamia.com/editions/Edwards_2004_Revision_Phidippus.pdf

Reactions: Informative 2 | Award 1


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## Tortuga (Aug 6, 2019)

Gogyeng said:


> Found a more recent revision on Phidippus genus, with distribution maps included. By Edwards, 2004
> 
> P. regius and otiosus share roughly the same areas in Florida, but NOT in Caribean  Bahamas and Cuba.
> In fact the Cuban / Bahamas phidippus does not normally yield fertile eggsacks with the mainland (References breeders here in UK). So one wonders if in fact the caribean morphs represent in fact different subspecies, rather than simply locality.
> ...


oh wow! great thread btw, lots of intersting info


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## Gogyeng (Aug 7, 2019)

Salticid phylogenetics with relation to demographics dates a common ancestor between american, european and asian radiations to 47-57 my. Young?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22735169

The biogeography and age of salticid spider radiations (Araneae: Salticidae).

Bodner MR(1), Maddison WP. 2012


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## Gogyeng (Aug 7, 2019)

The salticid genus Sassacus (Dendryphantinae) is the closest to Phidippus, according to very recent phylogenetic revision, extending from Panama to Canada, with a high representation in Mexico, Brazil and US (S. cyaneus, S. papenhoei). Maybe giving clues about the origins of this branch of salticids.
Another link.

Madison, 2017. Zookeys

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...d/pdf/284778&usg=AOvVaw1Nkt-afvKi_u3cRlS3vsoH


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## Aline (Aug 21, 2019)

Turtle said:


> How do you tell the difference between P. audax and P. regius black morphs?
> 
> *Now I see, regius has coloration under the primary set of eyes and audax has significantly less hair on the carapace.


Could you tell me where you got this info? What coloration under the eyes are you talking about?


Great thread, I would love to see more studies on morphs / subspecies / species of Phiddipus too...


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## Tortuga (Aug 21, 2019)

Aline said:


> Could you tell me where you got this info? What coloration under the eyes are you talking about?


That's a great question... what the heck was I talking about?! I was making poor observations and drawing even worse conclusions on a subject that I’m still learning about. Please ignore my ignorance and thank you for bringing it to my attention.


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## Aline (Aug 22, 2019)

Turtle said:


> That's a great question... what the heck was I talking about?! I was making poor observations and drawing even worse conclusions on a subject that I’m still learning about. Please ignore my ignorance and thank you for bringing it to my attention.


I wasn't actually pointing out the mistake, but trying to learn how to differentiate them  So what you said is not true?


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## Tortuga (Aug 22, 2019)

Aline said:


> I wasn't actually pointing out the mistake, but trying to learn how to differentiate them  So what you said is not true?


Not true at all.  I was confusing myself and you as well apparently, sorry about that. I still can't tell the difference .  Now I have to wonder, are the pictures out there even correct?
image search for a P. audax (black morph)


image search of P. regius (black morph)


I can't tell the difference at all

*I've never actually seen a black morph P. regius with my own eyes, so there's that variable to.

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## Spiderman2019 (Oct 1, 2019)

Turtle said:


> Not true at all.  I was confusing myself and you as well apparently, sorry about that. I still can't tell the difference .  Now I have to wonder, are the pictures out there even correct?
> image search for a P. audax (black morph)
> View attachment 318442
> 
> ...


WHO IS SELLING THESE SPIDERS 3058030579


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## Tortuga (Oct 2, 2019)

Spiderman2019 said:


> WHO IS SELLING THESE SPIDERS 305-xxx-xxxx


Not sure who sell P. audax.  Joshs Frogs sell P. regius, but you're in FL.  You should be able to find them out and about.

Just a bit of advise, posting your phone number on a public forum might not be a good thing...just sayin'  I recommend editing your post.

*recent posts, very recent
http://arachnoboards.com/threads/wh...salticidae-are-available-in-the-hobby.324987/


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## BenLeeKing (Oct 3, 2019)

I think audax has more “texture” to the abdomen than regius. When you look at an audax female, that abdomen is not completely uniformly black. You can see there’s a reflective iridescent area and a black velvety marking. I think that is what distinguishes audax from black regius. regius also has those “lashes” which I forgot what is the scientific word form them called.


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## Aline (Oct 13, 2020)

Found this article : https://www.researchgate.net/public...rida_State_Collection_of_Arthropods_Volume_11
Super interesting, with detailed descriptions of P audax and P regius


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## Dusk2Dawn (Oct 20, 2020)

While it's not a phylogenetic study or anything of the sort, here is a post with some discussion about the more common captive-bred color morphs. Even though the post isn't that old, there has been a lot of leaps and bounds made with breeding specific color and pattern variation as of late, particularly in male coloration.

Reactions: Like 1


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