# Tegenaria food?



## jakykong (Dec 28, 2011)

Hello all,

I've found several spiders, which, thanks to a friendly e-mail chat with Rod Crawford (I consider us Washingtonians to be very lucky to have such an expert nearby!), have been identified as Tegenaria, probably T. gigantea. So far, they seem willing to eat small crickets, pretty much the same as my T spiderlings. But I hate crickets, so my goal for a while now has been to find alternative food sources, preferably breedable, that I can use instead...

So, has anyone else cared for this species/genus before? 

They definitely did *not* seem to like bean weevils, the other insect I have around here... they're a bit too small in any case, but I could feed several of them if the spider would take them. It just shoos them away. (I think it ate one, but it definitely isn't its favorite food.)

Some other things I was thinking of trying were mealworms (small ones, of course) or maybe Turkish roaches... but I don't really want to invest in starting with those unless they've got a good chance of working. I'm tempted to toss in a dubia nymph and see what happens, but I'm not sure if they'd be small enough.

Basically, what have you gotten Tegenaria sp. to accept?

Thanks!


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## Hobo (Dec 28, 2011)

Hey, I've kept these guys for as far as I can remember.

I've gotten them to take most soft bodied WC inverts such as smaller centipedes, caterpillars, beetle larva, earwigs, small wolf spiders, etc.
They will also take small crickets too, though, I just like to provide a "native" diet

They seem to ignore isopods and similar hard shelled inverts (mealworms included, but I suppose they might take one if it's small enough/freshly molted; I'll have to try), and they sometimes simply prod or escort these until they exit the web. In fact using isopods is a good way to catch Tegenaria as they will usually follow them to the outer most reaches of their web where they are easily caught.

Anyway, I'd guess they'd ignore dubia since their armor is isopod-like (perhaps a large adult may take them though), but I don't see why they wouldn't take something small, spazzy and soft like Turkish roach nymphs.


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## Ciphor (Dec 28, 2011)

Hobo said:


> Hey, I've kept these guys for as far as I can remember.
> 
> I've gotten them to take most soft bodied WC inverts such as smaller centipedes, caterpillars, beetle larva, earwigs, small wolf spiders, etc.
> They will also take small crickets too, though, I just like to provide a "native" diet
> ...


Exactly right. I currently have 2 female hobo, both with egg sacs, and 1 male hobo. I have 1 immature female _T. gigantea_ and 2 mature males. I breed them, and am on my 5th generation female with _T. gigantea_

I feed them local foods. A large diet of earwigs (they love them!) and spiders, sometimes crickets. If you keep the spiders indoors you will need to keep them fed over the winter which can be tricky to find WC food in winter. I leave mine in the garage and let them "chill out". All my _Tegenaria_ are currently almost 2 months without a bite of food, they need weekly water. All my WC spiders spend winter outside to prolong lifespan, and to lessen the burden of feeding. It also keeps there experience as real as it can be, as these spiders all pretty much go into a conservation state when winter hits. They do not like isopods. Do not feed them our local black and yellow millipedes! They are very toxic to a spider. Also our local black crickets, have large powerful mandibles. I've seen one get bit by a mature male _T. gigantea_, only to have the cricket turn his head enough and  chomp a leg off, followed by a bite to the abdomen, successfully killing my mature male.

You should ask Rod to go on a safari, he loves new blood. Really, he loves any excuse to go catch bugs and add to his massive list of spiders awaiting for nomenclature. That guy knows some sick spider spots for Linyphiidae!

Did you flip your _Tegenaria_ and check for sternum spotting? If spots, not hobo, if no spots, might be any _Tegenaria_ that can be found in WA.

My profile gallery has some good comparison shots and sternum shots for how our locals look.

You can see how much they love earwigs. I got some pictures also of a mature female and male having a tug o war match over an earwig during an attempted mating session. She got piiiiisssssed and almost killed the male after winning the earwig.

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/gallery/showimage.php?i=22546&catid=member&imageuser=60981

Youtube video of it, pretty cool if you like this species. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUSVzIXGHuo

You will also need to determine how to house it properly. I've killed female _T. gigantea_ by not giving them enough room to web. They will kill food and not eat it if they are not cozy. Female giants need lots of web room, while most female hobos only need a few inches.


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## jakykong (Dec 28, 2011)

Hobo said:


> Hey, I've kept these guys for as far as I can remember.
> 
> I've gotten them to take most soft bodied WC inverts such as smaller centipedes, caterpillars, beetle larva, earwigs, small wolf spiders, etc.
> They will also take small crickets too, though, I just like to provide a "native" diet


They've eaten crickets so far, just because the 3 things I (usually) keep around are bean weevils, crickets, and dubia... But turkish roaches are cheap; it sounds like a good option to start a smallish colony. Thanks!



Ciphor said:


> Exactly right. I currently have 2 female hobo, both with egg sacs, and 1 male hobo. I have 1 immature female _T. gigantea_ and 2 mature males. I breed them, and am on my 5th generation female with _T. gigantea_
> 
> I feed them local foods. A large diet of earwigs (they love them!) and spiders, sometimes crickets. If you keep the spiders indoors you will need to keep them fed over the winter which can be tricky to find WC food in winter. I leave mine in the garage and let them "chill out". All my _Tegenaria_ are currently almost 2 months without a bite of food, they need weekly water. All my WC spiders spend winter outside to prolong lifespan, and to lessen the burden of feeding. It also keeps there experience as real as it can be, as these spiders all pretty much go into a conservation state when winter hits. They do not like isopods. Do not feed them our local black and yellow millipedes! They are very toxic to a spider. Also our local black crickets, have large powerful mandibles. I've seen one get bit by a mature male _T. gigantea_, only to have the cricket turn his head enough and  chomp a leg off, followed by a bite to the abdomen, successfully killing my mature male.
> 
> ...


I hadn't really planned on going for WC food; Just something about growing the food myself that makes me feel more secure about the food supply. But that does make me wonder whether earwigs are reasonably easy to breed? Hm. Time for more research. 

I didn't flip the spider(s); they're really fast, and now that they've settled in nicely, I'm not really keen on disturbing them too much... "Probably gigantea" was Rod's phrase, so I guess that's good enough until I find another one. Next time I come across one, I'll leave it in a clear container without substrate long enough to look! 

So far, using a deli cup with some coco fiber on the bottom and a pair of dry Maple leaves on one side to build a funnel in has been working nicely. The two that I have have both eaten. I assume that means they're cozy  Would their comfort in a deli cup indicate that they're more likely hobo than gigantea?


A pretty good view of the spider and its current habitat:


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## Ciphor (Dec 28, 2011)

Looks like a small mature male _Tegenaria gigantea_. The hints of yellow on the wishbone pattern is pretty strong, he is a beaut! What you can do to check and be certain, is freeze him. They handle cold VERY well. Just 2 minutes in the freezer, and you should be able to flip him and check for sternum spotting. You will know when he has been frozen long enough when he starts to curl up in a defensive posture, with legs tucked in. If you open the freezer and he is still running around or moving, give him another 2 minutes. Just never go over 6 minutes in a 24 hour period, from my experience anyway! (I usually just put them in for 5 minutes, they always wake up in about 1 minute. Only ever lost 1 _Tegenaria_ to over freezing, and the stubborn gal was in there for over 10 minutes and still moving!)

Earwigs reproduce at an amazing rate, just like crickets. If you are in Kent, you may have trouble finding earwigs. Down south, surrounded by forest, I have trouble not finding earwigs lol. I find so many, my T's even eat them!

---------- Post added 12-28-2011 at 08:48 PM ----------

Oh also, males tend to handle small enclosures much better. However be warned, he has already started doing what a lot of my Tegens do in that kinda enclosure, web in circles. They will build a spiral of webbing up the side of the cup till they hit the top! 

Tegens love to hide! If he is not hiding, he is not cozy. They do not like dead leaves, which is why he is ignoring that retreat and webbing over it. They like crevices a lot, and they make some huge sheet webs. I would say if you really want to see what he is all about, and see him in all his glory, you should get a cheap petco little 2? gallon plastic container, the ones with the plastic grated lid, with small clear plastic doors. These ones -> http://www.petco.com/product/5914/Petco-Pet-Keeper-for-Small-Animals.aspx

They work great for Tegens! My female giants usually get a larger enclosure as they will web an insane amount. Beautiful strong webs too. 

For a retreat, (if you get a larger enclosure) I would use a piece of natural bark, just a hunk of it. Make sure he has room to crawl under it or beside it. Everyone here bakes there wood, etc. I never do and never have any issues, especially with WC and Wild bark. You could find a way to squeeze a small chunk of bark in there, but really, your changing how he naturally hunts by not allowing him the room he needs to develop a funnel and sheet.

The videos on my youtube profile show my female setup, and how much she webs, this thread also is a good example of just how much this species will web. http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?168312-Tegenaria-gigantea-Egg-Sac-Construction


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## jakykong (Dec 28, 2011)

I'm pretty sure it's not MM (palps don't have the boxing gloves... can't see it in that photo... I'll have to see if I can get a better picture on that one...), but it would be interesting if I were mistaken. The colors aren't so bright in normal conditions, but that photo was taken with flash, which always brings out colors that weren't there before...

However, now that you mention the size of the container, I guess it's time for an upgrade. Vertical space isn't that important, right? I'm thinking about large Gladware-type tupperware with appropriate ventilation. The big ones I can get by the 3-pack for about $5 are about 5"x8" and about 2-3" high... except for the height, not so very different from a KK. But in your other thread, it looks like they like a bit of height... would the Gladware be too short?


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## Hobo (Dec 28, 2011)

Height isn't absolutely necessary, but it allows for them to easier create a proper web, and as Ciphor already mentioned, being able to make and maintain a proper web seems important for these guys (based on my experience too).

When I was a kid, I used to keep and breed these guys in those big ice cream buckets you get at supermarkets. Something along that size should be good, an make sure it has a place to build a hideout with anchor points for the hammock part. The bigger the better though. It's awesome seeing these guys make a proper web!


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## Ciphor (Dec 29, 2011)

jakykong said:


> I'm pretty sure it's not MM (palps don't have the boxing gloves... can't see it in that photo... I'll have to see if I can get a better picture on that one...), but it would be interesting if I were mistaken. The colors aren't so bright in normal conditions, but that photo was taken with flash, which always brings out colors that weren't there before...
> 
> However, now that you mention the size of the container, I guess it's time for an upgrade. Vertical space isn't that important, right? I'm thinking about large Gladware-type tupperware with appropriate ventilation. The big ones I can get by the 3-pack for about $5 are about 5"x8" and about 2-3" high... except for the height, not so very different from a KK. But in your other thread, it looks like they like a bit of height... would the Gladware be too short?


I give mine lots of room, as I enjoy watching them build larger webs. Anything less then 8 inches may cause issues with the lid. They will web top to bottom.
Can you get a picture of the palps? It could be small bodied female. If it is a female, she will need a lot more room.

Just so you are aware, The boxing glove pedipalps are found on male Hobos, not male Giant house spiders. They bulge a little at the ends, but nothing big, almost like a small arrow head.


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## jakykong (Dec 30, 2011)

That's actually quite fascinating about the boxing gloves... I thought that was pretty universal among spiders. I learn something new every time I read about these guys! 

Even after reading that, they still look pretty non-bulged to me. But I went to Target and got some Sterilite containers roughly in the shape/size of a KK (just, y'know, cheaper, and a little shorter, but I have a bit of limited space for spiders...) I rehoused it, and it started webbing up the cork round I have it right away. Hopefully a good sign 

Lucky, it also made this one of the easiest close-up photographs I've ever taken. 

Underside:



In my less-than-experienced eyes, it still looks female (or at least not-yet-mature male?) to me... but I'm always glad to learn something new .


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## Ciphor (Dec 30, 2011)

Looks female indeed. Needs more food.


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## jakykong (Dec 30, 2011)

First thing as soon as it builds enough web to catch something  Which by the looks of it would probably be sometime tomorrow. 

That surprises me a little, though, I was thinking it was a bit plump. They were both a lot skinnier when I caught them, which partly is because it's winter, I'm sure... How much do yours normally eat?


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## The wolf (May 22, 2017)

Ciphor said:


> I give mine lots of room, as I enjoy watching them build larger webs. Anything less then 8 inches may cause issues with the lid. They will web top to bottom.
> Can you get a picture of the palps? It could be small bodied female. If it is a female, she will need a lot more room.
> 
> Just so you are aware, The boxing glove pedipalps are found on male Hobos, not male Giant house spiders. They bulge a little at the ends, but nothing big, almost like a small arrow head.


i agree from personal experience mine has made a web on the lid and even atached an egg sac to it!


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