# New puppy!



## -Sarah- (Nov 28, 2009)

Matt and I have been missing our dogs.. it's been over a year and a half for him, and six months for me of going without a beloved canine companion, sooo... we were on craigslist last night, looking at dogs that needed a home. We came across this beautiful little girl and both said, "She's gorgeous!" - she still has those "puppy" eyes!

It was late - - 11:40pm, and Matt writes the number down to call this guy. I think it's a bloody crazy idea going after a puppy at midnight but, we both felt so bad for her. Matt calls the guy and asks if she's healthy and has her shots, and that she's been taken care of. "Oh yeah yeah shots are up to date and blah-blah".. well, we make a run to go look at her, since the guy was interested in getting rid of her. It's after midnight and here we are sitting at a Citgo station waiting for him to show up. He shows up - and, not to judge people but he uh.. looked like a dog fighter. This white guy with tattoos all over his head, baggy sweatshirt on (that could probably hold an estimated 20 handguns easily), and cigar smoke was billowing out of the truck he had both puppies in. Both of the parents of the pups were dead, the mother was shot, according to him, for jumping the fence and attacking the neighbor's children (hmm. Don't know about that...) he pulled out this huge carrier that had both pups in it, they were so adorable!! I felt so bad for her little sister but we can't have two puppies in the apartment  he handed our girl to me and the other to Matt, we looked them over.. she was a little dirty, had poop on her feet and under her nails. The carrier was gross! we knew when we went to get her we would be bringing her back home with us. I tucked her in my fleece vest and we drove home. Matt dropped us off and went to get puppy food, a couple bowls and a leash and collar while I cleaned the terrified puppy. She was a little dehydrated when I filled up her water bowl - she ate quite a bit of food. She's not potty-trained very well yet so I've cleaned up puddles of puppy pee today :wall: she's adorable - when she plays, she pounces on her toy like a cat! And she's such a gorgeous creamy-tan color, with white "booties" on her paws. We settled on a name for her...  "Puma", because of her coloring and how she loves to pounce! (especially on your unsuspecting toes... ouch. Puppy teeth)

These pics were taken shortly after she delighted in dumping her water bowl everywhere, so that's water you see on the pair of pink pants she's chewing on! LOL



















Last but not least, my favorite picture of her


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## whitewolf (Nov 28, 2009)

Best of luck Sarah hope everything works out with it. Hopefully it wont get the parents temper if that is true. At least she is in good hands now.


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## -Sarah- (Nov 28, 2009)

whitewolf said:


> Best of luck Sarah hope everything works out with it. Hopefully it wont get the parents temper if that is true. At least she is in good hands now.


Thanks whitewolf!  She's a sweetheart. Pit bulls have a bad rep due to people who abuse their loyalty for fighting.

I found an awesome website called Pit Bull Lovers and they have some wonderful information on these gorgeous dogs. I'm a Portuguese water dog fan myself, I miss my doggie! But pits are pretty dogs too! LOL - - as I type this I have some clean old clothes in an oversized laundry basket that I put Puma in so she could sit by me while I go job-hunting online and she's on her back with all four legs in the air.


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## Elleken (Nov 28, 2009)

Pitbulls are great dogs. We adopted two of them (well one is a mix) and I must say they are a couple of the most loving dogs ever. As long as you train her well and don't encourage bad behavior I'm sure she will be a great dog. My little girl is full grown and will let me hold her like a baby no problem while she gives kisses haha. Grats on the beautiful new pitty.


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## whitewolf (Nov 28, 2009)

Ya I gotta say in all my years of having pits at some point and time, some directly out of fighting lines, they acted far better than the Chow/Shepherd mix I have now or little dogs. I trusted those dogs with my kids far more than this one. Wonderful dogs with a bad over rated reputation. She is just cute cute cute.


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## Big Red TJ (Nov 28, 2009)

She is Eli/cowboy but no papers...This is not the first pit I have raised but she is a sweety.  Kid gloves all the way I belive in solid praise no negativity she is good to go


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## -Sarah- (Nov 28, 2009)

Pits are amazing! She's so playful and lovable  I love her! She's beautiful.


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## Teal (Nov 28, 2009)

*She's a lovely pup... but PLEASE continue to do your research.

It is NOT "all in how you raise them." If the dam of these pups was shot for attacking someone - that is a genetic fault, and is likely to be passed on to puppies. Temperament is 90% genetic and 10% training - you can NOT have a sound, well trained proper dog unless they have a solid, sound genetic foundation to build upon. All the socialization and training in the world, isn't going to change the genes your dog inherited from her sire, dam, and grandsire and granddam. Just be aware of the the signs of temperament flaws, and don't make excuses for your dog. In the old days, it wasn't an issue because breeders culled (meaning, killed) dogs that didn't have proper temperament... but these days, with Joe Blow breeding dogs and not giving a crap about their temperament, you have to pay attention. I had to put down an 11 month old puppy for being "off" - when I was later able to track down where she came from, her dam was a complete basketcase of fearful aggression, but since the "breeder" believed it was "all in how you raise them" he didn't think the dam was passing on crappy genetics to the puppies.

www.badrap.org has a lot of good information, as well as www.pbrc.net and www.pitbull-chat.com (the last one is a forum).

and I won't even comment on your "looked like a dog fighter" stereotype. Actual dog fighting is NOT that common, people are just super paranoid. The guy was probably just a sleezebag with dogs he thought made him look tough. *


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## whitewolf (Nov 28, 2009)

Very good advice Teal. Don't make my mistake and make excuses and keep pushing the bar. Sometimes training wont stop or prevent anything. We are down a dogs now because despite heavy training something just snapped in his head. It's too sad a story and still on going so I won't give the details. Don't distrust her because of it but don't make excuses or tolerate any aggression. He may have been lieing but he may not have either.


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## Big Red TJ (Nov 28, 2009)

Teal said:


> *She's a lovely pup... but PLEASE continue to do your research.
> 
> It is NOT "all in how you raise them." If the dam of these pups was shot for attacking someone - that is a genetic fault, and is likely to be passed on to puppies. Temperament is 90% genetic and 10% training - you can NOT have a sound, well trained proper dog unless they have a solid, sound genetic foundation to build upon. All the socialization and training in the world, isn't going to change the genes your dog inherited from her sire, dam, and grandsire and granddam. Just be aware of the the signs of temperament flaws, and don't make excuses for your dog. In the old days, it wasn't an issue because breeders culled (meaning, killed) dogs that didn't have proper temperament... but these days, with Joe Blow breeding dogs and not giving a crap about their temperament, you have to pay attention. I had to put down an 11 month old puppy for being "off" - when I was later able to track down where she came from, her dam was a complete basketcase of fearful aggression, but since the "breeder" believed it was "all in how you raise them" he didn't think the dam was passing on crappy genetics to the puppies.
> 
> ...


I understand.....seriously I do but I have been raising these dogs for 15 years.   I hear what you are saying but I disagree to a point....if a puppy shows* NO SIGHNS* of aggression or bad traits it does not mean they are going to grow into A BAD DOG....Nature VS nurtue...genetics only goes so far...there is NO EVIDENCE THAT IS CONCLUSIVE THAt ALL DOGS ARE GOING TO BE BAD DO TO GENETICS......do your your home work AkA richard Hammond "the truth about the american pitbull"  not trying to be a dick but I have been raising these dogs all my life it was the breed I grew up with...I get what you are saying Teal but I have turned Dog fighting dogs into lap dogs with proper rehab....by the way I dedigate time at a pitbull rehab shelter.  Again not trying to be a prick just we all have are ways and it is different strokes for different folks.  P.S. she has solid genetics..Eli cowboy thats good blood. just my 2 cents take no offense....Matt


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## ZergFront (Nov 28, 2009)

AWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!

 Won't you please come all the way to Redwood City and drop her off for daycare? LOL!


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## Teal (Nov 28, 2009)

*For the record, dogs don't just "snap" - there are ALWAYS warning signs, but the general population of pet owners do NOT know enough about dog behaviour and body language to recognize the signs that there is something off with their dog. 

Every single news story about a dog that "snapped out of nowhere and attacked' is just a complete lack of the owner knowing about their dog - dogs don't speak human language, they have their own way of warning people to back off or dogs that are wired wrong see things differently even than THOSE dogs. *


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## Teal (Nov 28, 2009)

Big Red TJ said:


> I understand.....seriously I do but I have been raising these dogs for 15 years.   I hear what you are saying but I disagree to a point....if a puppy shows* NO SIGHNS* of aggression or bad traits it does not mean they are going to grow into A BAD DOG....Nature VS nurtue...genetics only goes so far...there is NO EVIDENCE THAT IS CONCLUSIVE THAt ALL DOGS ARE GOING TO BE BAD DO TO GENETICS......do your your home work AkA richard Hammond "the truth about the american pitbull"  not trying to be a dick but I have been raising these dogs all my life it was the breed I grew up with...I get what you are saying Teal but I have turned Dog fighting dogs into lap dogs with proper rehab....by the way I dedigate time at a pitbull rehab shelter.  Again not trying to be a prick just we all have are ways and it is different strokes for different folks.  P.S. she has solid genetics..Eli ?cowboy thats good blood. just my 2 cents take no offense....Matt


*

Puppies have immature temperaments... dogs mature around 2 years old, sometimes older.

PROPERLY BRED pit bulls aren't anything to worry about - like I already said. Eli dogs have NO history of human aggression - if you have Eli bred dogs, you don't have to worry.

Fighting dogs are not dogs that would EVER bite a human, EVER. They were bred for that purpose.

But not every "pit bull" out there is from Eli, or a Sorrells dog, etc. and the generic "pit bull" dog out on the street is not always going to have the solid genetics the original lines have.

I've been involved with this breed my entire life.

"Rehab" is complete crap and is a term coined by that idiot Cesar Millan - whose work is total bull. Do you know how many dogs are killed in his pack when the camera are off? I DO. *


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## Big Red TJ (Nov 28, 2009)

ZergFront said:


> AWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!
> 
> Won't you please come all the way to Redwood City and drop her off for daycare? LOL!


come fly out and play Starcraft!!!!!!   seriously I have been raising Good dogs from solid lines for a long time..So I took a chance on a craigslist dog which I never do..... who cares??? she is a pet so I don't give a flying F*&k about papers as long as she is a sweetheart and she will be a great dog I promise....


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## Big Red TJ (Nov 28, 2009)

Teal said:


> *
> 
> Puppies have immature temperaments... dogs mature around 2 years old, sometimes older.
> 
> ...


I have had Hammond,colby, Sorrell, Eli,Tuant Chinaman,jeep Gator,need I go on on my yard???? not to be disrespectful but do not insult my intelligence with regard to bully breeds...or game dogs


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## Teal (Nov 29, 2009)

*By the way.. Chinaman is a man biter and has produced the same. Not ALL dogs off him are, but I wouldn't get a dog off him because it's in the line.

The general public doesn't HAVE gamedogs, so we aren't talkin gamedogs here - we are talkin "pet bred pit bulls" that may or may not even be purebred, and even if they aren't - they weren't bred to gamedog standards. 

I'm not insulting anyone - but we aren't talkin bout gamedogs, and your pointless name dropping isn't impressing anyone. *


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## ZergFront (Nov 29, 2009)

At least you gave her a better life (obviously by the description of the owner). My mini pin doesn't have papers either.

 When I get StarCraft II I will contact you.  

 I may just get the first ones since I do miss playing and the new one won't be out until 2010 at least. I ran over the CDs I had with my rolling desk chair (yeah...stupid. Don't know why they weren't in the cases) :wall: 

 Any-who.... beautiful puppy. Hope it will give you joy for years to come!


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## Big Red TJ (Nov 29, 2009)

ZergFront said:


> At least you gave her a better life (obviously by the description of the owner). My mini pin doesn't have papers either.
> 
> When I get StarCraft II I will contact you.
> 
> ...


she is laying on me right now


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## Big Red TJ (Nov 29, 2009)

Teal said:


> *By the way.. Chinaman is a man biter and has produced the same. Not ALL dogs off him are, but I wouldn't get a dog off him because it's in the line.
> 
> The general public doesn't HAVE gamedogs, so we aren't talkin gamedogs here - we are talkin "pet bred pit bulls" that may or may not even be purebred, and even if they aren't - they weren't bred to gamedog standards.
> 
> I'm not insulting anyone - but we aren't talkin bout gamedogs, and your pointless name dropping isn't impressing anyone. *


So do you Own "game dogs"???????????????


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## Teal (Nov 29, 2009)

*I should have phrased that - gamebred dogs. A dog can't be a gamedog until proven in the pit - which is illegal in the US (which everyone knows, I'm sure lol).

*


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## Big Red TJ (Nov 29, 2009)

Teal said:


> *I should have phrased that - gamebred dogs. A dog can't be a gamedog until proven in the pit - which is illegal in the US (which everyone knows, I'm sure lol).
> 
> *


check your PM sorry I am really not a prick really


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## Teal (Nov 29, 2009)

*It's all good  

For the record - it didn't occur to me until the second page, Big Red, that you are the "Matt" Sarah was talking about LOL So when you were talkin bout a pup and she was talkin bout a pup - I thought yall were talkin bout two different pups LOL *


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## Big Red TJ (Nov 29, 2009)

Teal said:


> *It's all good
> 
> For the record - it didn't occur to me until the second page, Big Red, that you are the "Matt" Sarah was talking about LOL So when you were talkin bout a pup and she was talkin bout a pup - I thought yall were talkin bout two different pups LOL *


LOL sorry  it happens she is a handful the pup I mean I sent you a PM on history of dogs from the past hit me up if ya want more info I got some great books..


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## Teal (Nov 29, 2009)

*I have - and have read - all of Stratton's book, and many many others  I research peds for a hobby, mostly from my favourite lines but I'm expanding my horizons recently to include any ped I come across.

I'd really love to see peds on your dogs if you can get ahold of them  *


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## -Sarah- (Nov 29, 2009)

Teal said:


> *She's a lovely pup... but PLEASE continue to do your research.
> 
> It is NOT "all in how you raise them." If the dam of these pups was shot for attacking someone - that is a genetic fault, and is likely to be passed on to puppies. Temperament is 90% genetic and 10% training - you can NOT have a sound, well trained proper dog unless they have a solid, sound genetic foundation to build upon. All the socialization and training in the world, isn't going to change the genes your dog inherited from her sire, dam, and grandsire and granddam. Just be aware of the the signs of temperament flaws, and don't make excuses for your dog. In the old days, it wasn't an issue because breeders culled (meaning, killed) dogs that didn't have proper temperament... but these days, with Joe Blow breeding dogs and not giving a crap about their temperament, you have to pay attention. I had to put down an 11 month old puppy for being "off" - when I was later able to track down where she came from, her dam was a complete basketcase of fearful aggression, but since the "breeder" believed it was "all in how you raise them" he didn't think the dam was passing on crappy genetics to the puppies. *


No, I fully understand APBT genetics  for all we know, her mother could have died fighting. I'm not going to take the word of some shady character right off the street.. I'm not saying I wouldn't trust someone, but it really kind of depends on the situation.. if you would have witnessed the situation, I know you would most likely agree with me that something was "off" there  I'm just glad we rescued at least one of the puppies. I feel horrible for the other pup.



Teal said:


> *and I won't even comment on your "looked like a dog fighter" stereotype. Actual dog fighting is NOT that common, people are just super paranoid. The guy was probably just a sleezebag with dogs he thought made him look tough. *


Well, since he was throwing out fighting dogs' names that raised a red flag. I'm not accusing him of being a fighter, but I can't explain it :? He just seemed to know a little too much about fighting and threw in the mother was "shot" for attacking his neighbor's kids, I just got this weird feeling that something wasn't right about the whole thing. He could be, he might not be.. it just raised some red flags with me. I don't believe in dog-fighting and he seemed to be pushing it in order to get rid of the pups. Maybe that's just how he does it: lists them on craigslist and starts throwing out names to make his pups look better in the eyes of someone who has knowledge of dog-fighting?


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## night4now (Nov 29, 2009)

She is beautiful!!! I am soooo jealous!


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## snappleWhiteTea (Nov 29, 2009)

Teal said:


> Temperament is 90% genetic and 10% training


true..kinda.


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## Teal (Nov 29, 2009)

*Then, if you met me, you would accuse ME of being a dog fighter... I know A LOT about dog fighting, and could easily throw out the names of some top pit dogs. I also have 'dog fighting paraphanelia' - springpole, flirtpole, treadmill, breaksticks, books on the breed's history and dog fighting, antibiotics and stitching materials, etc. I am also pierced and tattooed  But I have all these things because I work my dogs, and I am truly dedicated to the REAL American pit bull terrier.

True, something may have been 'off' with the guy... but that doesn't automatically point at him bein a dog fighter 

Anyone who TRULY is into APBTs must know about and atleast respect the history of the breed, even if they don't agree with it... our dogs wouldn't be what they are - especially the "loving, wonderful family dog" part - without the strict breeding standards of old time dogmen  

And maybe my percentages on genetics are a little flexible.. maybe 70/30? 
But what it comes down to - is that a sound dog can't be messed up no matter what you do to it (including beating the hell out of it, starving it near to death, etc.), and an unsound dog WILL be messed up no matter what you do to it (including all the best training and the most socialization ever).*


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## Exo (Nov 29, 2009)

Why would you want books on dog fighting......no offense, but the more I read your posts, the more suspicious I get.


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## wayne the pain (Nov 30, 2009)

Teal said:


> *
> 
> "Rehab" is complete crap and is a term coined by that idiot Cesar Millan - whose work is total bull. Do you know how many dogs are killed in his pack when the camera are off? I DO. *


C'mon dont tell me half the story.
 i dont know, but would like to know more, PM me if you dont want to post it here.


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## -Sarah- (Nov 30, 2009)

Teal said:


> *Then, if you met me, you would accuse ME of being a dog fighter... I know A LOT about dog fighting, and could easily throw out the names of some top pit dogs. I also have 'dog fighting paraphanelia' - springpole, flirtpole, treadmill, breaksticks, books on the breed's history and dog fighting, antibiotics and stitching materials, etc. I am also pierced and tattooed  But I have all these things because I work my dogs, and I am truly dedicated to the REAL American pit bull terrier.*


Antibiotics and stitching materials? How hard do you work your dogs? Every pet owner should have a little first-aid kit for their pet, but, that sounds a little extreme. I'm not one to point fingers at people with tattoos and piercings and call them freaks, I have piercings and am planning on getting tattoos.



Teal said:


> *True, something may have been 'off' with the guy... but that doesn't automatically point at him bein a dog fighter *


I'm not judging books by their cover, so to speak. I can smell a rat from a mile away, and this guy wasn't smelling too good. Like I said, any normal person that would have met him would have been suspicious.



Teal said:


> *Anyone who TRULY is into APBTs must know about and atleast respect the history of the breed, even if they don't agree with it... our dogs wouldn't be what they are - especially the "loving, wonderful family dog" part - without the strict breeding standards of old time dogmen
> 
> And maybe my percentages on genetics are a little flexible.. maybe 70/30?
> But what it comes down to - is that a sound dog can't be messed up no matter what you do to it (including beating the hell out of it, starving it near to death, etc.), and an unsound dog WILL be messed up no matter what you do to it (including all the best training and the most socialization ever).*


I fully understand the history of the breed - I don't respect nor agree with dogfighting. I also don't plan on beating the hell out of my dog or nearly starving it to death. I respect the breed, not the fact it can be abused to the brink of death and still be breathing.

If I had known my thread would have turned into a full-blown hijacked debate on dog-fighting and genetics I would have thought twice about uploading pics. :wall:


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## Teal (Nov 30, 2009)

*Wayne - it's really simple... When the cameras aren't rolling, there are "teams" of folk who are around to "keep the peace" among the dozens of dogs running together... which they don't do very well at all. Daily scuffles and injuries occur, and dogs do die.

Exo - Any book on the history of the breed is going to have information about dog fighting, because that IS the history of the breed. And it's simply foolish to think that if I was fighting my dogs, I'd be talking about it on a public forum... the best lines of APBTs have been confiscated and killed by HSUS and PETA without a bit of reason, under the guise of their breeders being suspected dog fighters. It's a huge paranoia ploy.

Sarah, I live in the country. I could be playing a simple game of fetch with my dog, and my dog could slice their leg open on a rock. My dogs aren't cautious or slow... they are driven and careless and it's ALL about the ball. I've learned not to fetch around trees... one time a ball landed at the base of a tree and my bull terrier hit it so hard she knocked herself out. My APBT had to have a tooth removed because he ran into a boulder and broke it too far down and it would have become infected. These are DOGS, and bulldogs at that.. they aren't fragile, and they don't notice when they are hurt either 
Also, living in a multi-dog, and especially a multi-pit bull, household.. scuffles DO occur between dogs. I haven't had a scuffle between my own dogs in awhile, but we have stray dogs and idiots who walk offleash dogs down our rural road (just had this happen the other night in fact, and the dog jumped into my yard when my entire crew was out there). 

Just for the record... my supply of materials comes from my vet  There's no point in hauling my dog to the vet and having someone else stitch them, when I can get it down quickly at home. 

Sorry that I care enough about the breed to hijack your thread.. continue on with your tunnel-visioned ownership now  *


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## -Sarah- (Nov 30, 2009)

Teal said:


> *Sarah, I live in the country. I could be playing a simple game of fetch with my dog, and my dog could slice their leg open on a rock. My dogs aren't cautious or slow... they are driven and careless and it's ALL about the ball. I've learned not to fetch around trees... one time a ball landed at the base of a tree and my bull terrier hit it so hard she knocked herself out. My APBT had to have a tooth removed because he ran into a boulder and broke it too far down and it would have become infected. These are DOGS, and bulldogs at that.. they aren't fragile, and they don't notice when they are hurt either *


That's when it's time to remove the obvious obstacles - small trees, logs, stumps, rocks, and everything in between. A smart dog owner removes everything they possibly can. Do you recognize and remove the poisonous wild plants, flowers and weeds that can be potentially fatal to dogs? I've been an avid dog owner for years and have owned a variety of breeds. I have never had any trouble. Dogs have a tendency to run into things. My PWD would mow over anything trying to fetch a ball, and she was far from the heavy-bodied breed that a pit is.



Teal said:


> *
> Also, living in a multi-dog, and especially a multi-pit bull, household.. scuffles DO occur between dogs. I haven't had a scuffle between my own dogs in awhile, but we have stray dogs and idiots who walk offleash dogs down our rural road (just had this happen the other night in fact, and the dog jumped into my yard when my entire crew was out there). *


As much as I love dogs, I'd only keep one pit per household. I would rather give one pitbull a good home than to keep ten of them and run the irresponsible risk of having something happen to them. What's one person against a few full grown pits engaged in a scuffle? Good luck pulling them apart if you aren't prepared.



Teal said:


> *Just for the record... my supply of materials comes from my vet  There's no point in hauling my dog to the vet and having someone else stitch them, when I can get it down quickly at home.
> 
> Sorry that I care enough about the breed to hijack your thread.. continue on with your tunnel-visioned ownership now  *


I didn't ask where you got your first-aid materials :? As long as they come from either a vet or a reliable medical supply place where you can trust the materials are sterile they should be fine. You say you have a multi-pitbull household, you've said yourself that you own dog fighting "paraphernalia", you study the history of the breed as well as dog fighting history, you claim that people should respect the breed's dog fighting history and you live in the rural country?

I have one pitbull puppy. I live in a good part of the city. I don't endorse nor do I own dog-fighting material or "paraphernalia" of any kind. My fiance has been properly keeping this breed for decades.

Tunnel-visioned ownership  what a low blow for someone who should be trying to educate people about this breed that already has a poor reputation due to dog-fighting..  instead you're bragging about your breaksticks, extensive knowledge of dog-fighting and your pitbulls injuring themselves.


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## Teal (Dec 1, 2009)

*You're obviously not open to any sort of education, which is evidenced by the part where you are hinting around that I am a dog fighter  

I am not bragging about anything, other than the fact that my dogs are good working dogs (there IS a link to my website in my signature ya know  ) and that I actually KNOW about the breed I own.

The part about me owning "dog fighting paraphernalia" was a joke - I own everything that a proper working dog household owns, but that the HSUS and PETA have deemed to be 'dog fighting paraphernalia' - which is absolutely ridiculous.

I can't remove all the rocks and trees from nine acres of property, and I wouldn't even if I could  
A smart dog owner avoids the bigger things, but balls bounce in random directions and dogs doing zoomies are a little out of my control. And it's not just my pit bulls - my bull terrier does more damage than anyone else. If there's nothing to run into, she flips and rolls and does stupid things that way. She hasn't found her "brakes" yet.
My dogs are in top physical form and compete in (legal ) dog sports.

That's why I'm always prepared  And "full grown pits" are only up to 50lbs.. and none of MINE are even that large 
I've never had an incident in my yard that I wasn't able to handle on my own - and I'm not a large person. All dogs wear collars, and I carry leashes.. if there is a multi-dog scuffle, you leash dogs and tie them to trees and use the breakstick that ANY responsible pit bull owner would have. 
Oh but wait, removing all the trees would be the responsible thing to do, right? 
If I have dogs that don't get along, they don't go out together. It's not that difficult of a situation to comprehend, really.

Some people are equipped to handle more than one dog. Some aren't. 

Honestly, you aren't helping the breed anymore than you don't think I am either :? 

You're what we'd call a "pet bull" owner - someone who wants people to pity the breed for the horrible things done to them  by humans, so you overcompensate with your own dog by babying it and trying to convince people that "it's all in how you raise them."

It's not a pity party - FACTS are what need to be shared, not bleeding heart syndrome. *


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## -Sarah- (Dec 1, 2009)

Teal said:


> *You're obviously not open to any sort of education, which is evidenced by the part where you are hinting around that I am a dog fighter  *


I'm not hinting, I'm just quoting what you've said, that's all. If you don't want people accusing you of something, then don't "brag" that you are so well-informed on something that's cruel and illegal. I don't know if you were bragging but that was my first impression of it. That's all I'm saying.



Teal said:


> *I've never had an incident in my yard that I wasn't able to handle on my own - and I'm not a large person. All dogs wear collars, and I carry leashes.. if there is a multi-dog scuffle, you leash dogs and tie them to trees and use the breakstick that ANY responsible pit bull owner would have.
> Oh but wait, removing all the trees would be the responsible thing to do, right?
> If I have dogs that don't get along, they don't go out together. It's not that difficult of a situation to comprehend, really.
> 
> Some people are equipped to handle more than one dog. Some aren't. *


You can own dogs that don't get along, and you can own all the dogs you want. That's your freedom of choice. I personally wouldn't own dogs that don't get along. And that's my choice.



Teal said:


> *Honestly, you aren't helping the breed anymore than you don't think I am either :?
> 
> You're what we'd call a "pet bull" owner - someone who wants people to pity the breed for the horrible things done to them  by humans, so you overcompensate with your own dog by babying it and trying to convince people that "it's all in how you raise them."
> 
> It's not a pity party - FACTS are what need to be shared, not bleeding heart syndrome. *


I'm not asking people to pity the breed, and it does involve with how you raise them. You seem to be more interested in picking apart every single thing I say, just because you think you have more experience with the dogs. That's fine, you go about your life and I'll go about mine. I'm not going to waste my time replying to anything more. At this point I suggest we agree to disagree. You have your opinions and I have mine. It's what makes the world go 'round.


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## Exo (Dec 1, 2009)

Teal said:


> It's not a pity party - FACTS are what need to be shared, not bleeding heart syndrome.


Perhaps if people pitied them more they would stop fighting them....


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## Big Red TJ (Dec 2, 2009)

Exo said:


> Perhaps if people pitied them more they would stop fighting them....


.......+1...... I agree, people wonder why this breed is being outlawed it is due to bad owners and bad imformation.  If the american pit bull terrier is going to have any forseable future it will need an overhaul for it's image in the public eye.  Yes they have a fighting *PAST*, But that is where it needs to remain... just my 2 cents.


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## Teal (Dec 3, 2009)

*The fighting history of the breed wouldn't have an impact on its negative image, if people didn't believe that a dog who kills another dog is going after a human next.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again - fighting dogs don't bite people!
Purebred APBTs bred down from fighting dogs are THE safest dogs you'll ever meet - in the middle of a fight, you can stick your hands all up in their faces, and they won't even take a second look - it's the other DOG they want. It's one of the many reasons why APBTs make awesome dogs for families with kids... their breeding for bite inhibition with humans, and their higher pain tolerance means they don't care if you yank on them, poke them, etc. because one, it doesn't hurt them like it would hurt another breed, and two, you're a person! 

It's generic "pit bulls" bred by people who care more about looks - like winning in the show ring - than temperament who are turning around and biting people.

Not to mention - the general public can't even properly ID the American pit bull terrier. They are a medium breed - meaning 30-50lbs., maybe 60-70 for a LARGE male - with an athletic, slim build. Not quite what you pictured, right?  All these stories of "100lb. pit bulls" are loads of crap - you wanna talk about a mixed breed designer mutt? THERE you have it! They are called American Bullies (not American BullDOGS.. separate breed), and they are bred for size, colour, and for status - notice how temperament isn't mentioned?

APBTs are the only breed that, during creation, was culled (meaning, killed) based on the criteria of biting humans! 

So if their PAST was still the PRESENT... If the breeding had never strayed from it's original purpose... there would never have been a problem 

On the note that dog fighting is cruel...

Do you also believe sighthounds coursing live game is cruel?
Or border collies herding sheep?
Or foxhounds on the hunt?
Or using catch dogs on a hog?
Or small terriers going after vermin?

Dogs bred for a purpose, excel at that purpose. There is not a happier dog on the planet than one doing the job it was bred to do. 
Yes, I am saying what you think I am saying it... the dogs enjoy it.

There is a HUGE difference between "dog fighters" of today, and the original dogmen of yesteryear who created the breed. Today's "dog fighters" throw random animals into a ring to watch them kill each other without any conditioning whatsoever. In the old days, it was a sport that required conditioning and matching dogs with similar size/fighting style to determine the stronger dog, and was a sport attended by refined gentlemen. 

I'm not a dog fighter. My dogs participate in legal dog sports - such as agility, flyball, weightpull, dock diving, etc. - and are kept in prime condition with materials that organizations like HSUS and PETA have labeled as "dog fighting paraphernalia" in their psychotic attempt to wipe out the entire APBT breed (and, in PETA's case, pet ownership altogether).  

I understand that some people can't get past the blood involved... and that the people who can are a rarer bunch these days - but those of us who can, who truly love and see the breed for it's past, present, and hopeful future... we just hope the rest of the world learns to follow suit 

Okay, rant over. I've said all I can in my defense, and the defense of the breed.
Sarah - sorry for hijacking your thread and turning it into a huge debate... I know you just wanted comments on your adorable new puppy  this breed is my one weakness, where I just can't not say something  *


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## Mack&Cass (Dec 3, 2009)

Pit bulls are banned here, I don't know enough about dogs to really form an opinion on whether or not it's justified, but personally I don't think it's right. As for dog fighting, I'm not getting into that. Everyone has their own opinions and you all make good points for your cases, but I agree with Sarah that you guys should agree to disagree. Jairi, I'm sure you're not enjoying being indirectly accused of being a dogfighter, and Sarah and Matt I'm sure that the two of you aren't enjoying that your thread that was made to show off your cute new puppy has turned into such a heavy debate. All of you seem pretty set in your beliefs, as you should be, and I don't think that any of Jairi's dogs, nor Matt and Sarah's new puppy are going to be worse off because of the different ways you guys choose to raise them. I'm not picking sides nor am I trying to get in the middle of anything, I just think it's obvious that no one is going to convince any one else that their opinions are right, people will raise their animals however they want to raise them, and whether it's the right way or the wrong way, there's not much we can do but offer what advice we can and leave it at that. 

Cass

PS Sarah, your avatar scares the crap out of me. I'm currently reading the book, way scarier than the movie, and the movie gave me nightmares *shudder*


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## Exo (Dec 3, 2009)

Well Teal, from that last rant I think you proved what everyone here was thinking about you.


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## Mister Internet (Dec 3, 2009)

Exo said:


> Well Teal, from that last rant I think you proved what everyone here was thinking about you.


He did nothing of the sort, he provided a very lucid explanation of his position, opinions, experience, and LEGAL PASTTIMES.  You need to stop accusing him of being a dog fighter, as this is about the 3rd time in this thread you've done it, and it needs to stop.  You are basing this on NOTHING more than your "icky feeling" that he has mentioned training his dogs in a way you've been conditioned by dog fighting propaganda to believe is abusive and cruel.  You are wrong, and he has done nothing to warrant your continued harassment. 

Also, you need to think carefully about making statements of what "everyone" thinks... you don't speak for me.

Can you all please be adults for the remainder of the thread?  Or start a new one?


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## Teal (Dec 6, 2009)

*Exo - What more can I say, than "Think what you will?" 
Obviously, you are only taking from my posts those things that could support your theory that I am a dog fighter.. rather than reading the entire post with an open mind and taking in all the information. It's rather ignorant of you, and where I would normally be offended at your continued accusations even after I've been more than accommodating with explanations, I am just in awe at the stereotypes you are applying and how it shows a complete lack for anything you say being of your own thoughts. 
Though I would welcome the opportunity to speak with you and dispel your misguided thoughts on me and the activities I participate in with my dogs.. I wouldn't be surprised if that wasn't something you were interested in.

Mister Internet - I appreciate you reading my posts as they were intended. 

(Oh, and just because I am amused by the common mistake.. I'm female, lol)

*


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## Big Red TJ (Dec 6, 2009)

Teal said:


> *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Exo (Dec 6, 2009)

Mister Internet said:


> He did nothing of the sort, he provided a very lucid explanation of his position, opinions, experience, and LEGAL PASTTIMES.  You need to stop accusing him of being a dog fighter, as this is about the 3rd time in this thread you've done it, and it needs to stop.  You are basing this on NOTHING more than your "icky feeling" that he has mentioned training his dogs in a way you've been conditioned by dog fighting propaganda to believe is abusive and cruel.  You are wrong, and he has done nothing to warrant your continued harassment.


I was just surprised that she seems rather un-sympathetic about the whole dogfighting thing. Hey, maybe I'm wrong and she has nothing to do with dogfighting....well, nothing I say is going to change anything anyway, so I guess I'm done.


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## -Sarah- (Dec 13, 2009)

Mack&Cass said:


> PS Sarah, your avatar scares the crap out of me. I'm currently reading the book, way scarier than the movie, and the movie gave me nightmares *shudder*



LOL - thank you  I love that film, the book is excellent, by the way! I'm a Stephen King fan. A lot of people don't like his work but I happen to


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## Mack&Cass (Dec 13, 2009)

-Sarah- said:


> LOL - thank you  I love that film, the book is excellent, by the way! I'm a Stephen King fan. A lot of people don't like his work but I happen to


I love his stuff too, I've read quite a few of his books. Have you read his short story The Long Walk? He wrote it as Richard Bachman. It's really messed up, you should read it if you haven't already. I got Mackenzie hooked on him with The Long Walk, haha.

Cassandra

(PS, I'm only about 300 pages into the book, and I was afraid since I saw the movie first that I might not like it as much since I'd picture some of the scenes as they were in the movie, but the book is SO different, I'm really enjoying it)

And just so I'm not completely off topic, that is a very cute puppy.


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## Teal (Dec 14, 2009)

*I want to join the off topic conversation, and say that I loved his book "Rose Madder" and another one that was a collection of short stories, but I don't remember what it was called.

I've never read It, or seen the movie though! *


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## Mack&Cass (Dec 15, 2009)

Teal said:


> *I want to join the off topic conversation, and say that I loved his book "Rose Madder" and another one that was a collection of short stories, but I don't remember what it was called.
> 
> I've never read It, or seen the movie though! *


I LOVED Rose Madder. The ending was really creepy and weird. You need to read It, it's really good. Or watch the movie. Or both. The movie is quite different from the book.
Could the collection of short stories be Night Shift, or Skeleton Crew? There's some other one but I can't remember what it's called. There's a story in it called Autopsy Room Four. OH! Everything's Eventual. That's what it's called...it's newer.

Cass


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