# once again i have a question...



## Perentie (May 6, 2013)

I have been looking for an arachnid to go in my room. so my question is this: What t would be the best eater, while still being handleable? I would not be handling regularly, only on occasion.


----------



## goodyt (May 6, 2013)

First: Don't even talk about hassling (or handling) a T unless you are ready for a lecture. 

All species, at some time, might need help with something that requires you to get up-close-and-personal but it is ALWAYS at the risk to you and your pet. The responsible thing to do is just make a home that is safe a clean for them and buy some tools like 10" feeding tongs for feeding and cleaning left overs from food and clean makeup brush to guide it in directions that you may need it to move to.


That being said: the Brachypelma genus all seem to be both docile, and beautiful. They have many fans and breeders.


----------



## Perentie (May 6, 2013)

goodyt said:


> First: Don't even talk about hassling (or handling) a T unless you are ready for a lecture.
> 
> All species, at some time, might need help with something that requires you to get up-close-and-personal but it is ALWAYS at the risk to you and your pet. The responsible thing to do is just make a home that is safe a clean for them and buy some tools like 10" feeding tongs for feeding and cleaning left overs from food and clean makeup brush to guide it in directions that you may need it to move to.
> 
> ...


 You're right, i didnt really mean handle as most people would think of it... I would just need it to be docile enough to be picked up IF i needed to, and to convince parents it isn't aggressive. i would not just be picking it up for no reason.


----------



## MarkmD (May 6, 2013)

Yeah i very rarely ever handle my T's, i would get a L,parahybana, as they are cheap and amazing eaters, plus they grow large with a good attitude.


----------



## Perentie (May 6, 2013)

MarkmD said:


> Yeah i very rarely ever handle my T's, i would get a L,parahybana, as they are cheap and amazing eaters, plus they grow large with a good attitude.


i like em, but i just realized it has to fit in a twenty gallon or smaller


----------



## Marijan2 (May 6, 2013)

euathlus sp. red is really nice starting T. also brachypelma genus and grammostola genus are nice starting points


----------



## Perentie (May 6, 2013)

Marijan2 said:


> euathlus sp. red is really nice starting T. also brachypelma genus and grammostola genus are nice starting points


yes, a while ago i did research as to what beginner T's would be good for me, now i am asking what the best eater out of those is.


----------



## sugarsandz (May 6, 2013)

I have a Brachypelma smithi, boehmei and emilia and they are all very good eaters. They are actually pretty incredible to watch, fast little things when they're hungry.


----------



## Perentie (May 6, 2013)

sugarsandz said:


> I have a Brachypelma smithi, boehmei and emilia and they are all very good eaters. They are actually pretty incredible to watch, fast little things when they're hungry.


 ok thanks man


----------



## freedumbdclxvi (May 6, 2013)

Perentie said:


> i like em, but i just realized it has to fit in a twenty gallon or smaller


An LP would easily fit in a 20 gallon.  Even 15.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Seeyoutwo (May 6, 2013)

I have handled all my T's from a rose hair to a theraphosa stirmi. Just depends how scared you are honestly. I just can't have a...pet, that I can only look at.


----------



## tony119 (May 7, 2013)

Handling is not normal for T's. They are just display pets like fish in the fish tanks.
But if you really want to handle them, be cautious at all times. BUT i suggest not handling any T's.
For your questions, I will go for G.Pulchripes. They are one of the docile, gentle, big species and good eaters.


----------



## edgeofthefreak (May 7, 2013)

I'd recommend that if you're looking for a good feeding response, watch feeding compilations on youtube. There's a good one from tarantulaguy1976 (he has several dozen, so do many others) and about 5 minutes in he feeds his Chromatopelma cyaneopubescens (GBB) it runs around the tank a few times, almost like a dance, then calmly, politely takes the roach from tongs.

I've heard that some people "handle" their GBBs, but if you're like me, you're NOT looking for something to specifically hold or carry around... you're looking for something that isn't scary during a rehouse, or if it somehow got out, you wouldn't panic. Feeding vids can show off almost any T in it's most excited state (or show what they're like when they don't want food, heh)!


----------



## Marijan2 (May 7, 2013)

Seeyoutwo said:


> I have handled all my T's from a rose hair to a theraphosa stirmi. Just depends how scared you are honestly. I just can't have a...pet, that I can only look at.


i'm pretty damn scared if the T is some old worldie, or my hellspawn M. robustum


----------



## Cydaea (May 7, 2013)

I'm not scared at all, and I don't handle my T's. I have no OW's, but if I did I wouldn't fear them, I would use caution and common sense. I would do the same with feisty NW's too. I'm not scared of my B.vagans, I think her attitude is adorable. I'm still not putting my hands in her enclosure, because I know she will bite. My rosea and B.albo are pretty 'safe' to handle, and I have done so occasionally, but I know thay can turn on me in a split second for no apparent reason.

The risk to the spider is much greater than the risk to myself. If I get a bite, I'll live. If the spider falls to the floor, it will probably not survive. So my choice not to handle them is out of consideration for them, and not for myself. If they were indestructible or they could bounce like rubber balls, it would be a different story 

But the spider gets nothing out of being handled. It's not bonding with you, it's not socialising. All it knows, is it's being grabbed by the giant predator and will most likely be eaten.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## goodyt (May 7, 2013)

Cydaea said:


> I'm not scared at all, and I don't handle my T's. I have no OW's, but if I did I wouldn't fear them, I would use caution and common sense. I would do the same with feisty NW's too. I'm not scared of my B.vagans, I think her attitude is adorable. I'm still not putting my hands in her enclosure, because I know she will bite. My rosea and B.albo are pretty 'safe' to handle, and I have done so occasionally, but I know thay can turn on me in a split second for no apparent reason.
> 
> The risk to the spider is much greater than the risk to myself. If I get a bite, I'll live. If the spider falls to the floor, it will probably not survive. So my choice not to handle them is out of consideration for them, and not for myself. If they were indestructible or they could bounce like rubber balls, it would be a different story
> 
> But the spider gets nothing out of being handled. It's not bonding with you, it's not socialising. All it knows, is it's being grabbed by the giant predator and will most likely be eaten.


Well said. Just loosing a leg alone is such an embarrassment to look at.


----------



## Perentie (May 7, 2013)

freedumbdclxvi said:


> An LP would easily fit in a 20 gallon.  Even 15.


 Meh. I pefer to give my animals larger enclosures.

---------- Post added 05-07-2013 at 04:56 PM ----------

I know the tarantula does not get anything out of being handled, I view it the same way I do my snakes; they do not like being handled, but as long as it is done in small amounts and done carefully it is not a horrible thing to do. I have already stated that I would not be handling it for the heck of it, so please refrain from telling me how I should not handle them.


----------



## Seeyoutwo (May 7, 2013)

Handle the t while sitting on the ground. Less distance from th ground if it happens to fall.


----------



## Wildwolf (May 7, 2013)

My Brachys are great eaters. The albopilosum will eat anything I put in there. They're pretty docile, and the adults can get great colors (in personal opinion). The only problem for them being display T's is that they turned into pet holes. But it's fun watching them burrow.


----------



## Perentie (May 7, 2013)

Seeyoutwo said:


> Handle the t while sitting on the ground. Less distance from th ground if it happens to fall.


Yep. If I ever have to handle it that's what I'll do.


----------



## freedumbdclxvi (May 12, 2013)

Perentie said:


> Meh. I pefer to give my animals larger enclosures.


Shrug.  Up to you.  With limited space,  I would think overkill would be a terrible idea but that's your call.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Bongo Fury (May 12, 2013)

Perentie said:


> Meh. I pefer to give my animals larger enclosures.


After you've actually owned one for a while you will come to the conclusion the rest of us have, bigger is not better when it comes to tarantula enclosures.


----------



## Poec54 (May 12, 2013)

Lurker597 said:


> After you've actually owned one for a while you will come to the conclusion the rest of us have, bigger =/= better when it comes to tarantula enclosures.


Except if you have a large collection and can't afford the space big cages take.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Bongo Fury (May 12, 2013)

Poec54 said:


> Except if you have a large collection and can't afford the space big cages take.


I'm glad we are in agreement. Sorry if my original post was unclear, I think it's fixed now.


----------



## Perentie (May 12, 2013)

Lurker597 said:


> After you've actually owned one for a while you will come to the conclusion the rest of us have, bigger is not better when it comes to tarantula enclosures.


 if you have a single reason for that except limited space on my part, i would love to hear it.


----------



## freedumbdclxvi (May 12, 2013)

Read "Sizing It Up" in the Tarantula Keeper's Guide for reasons.   If you do not own this book, I suggest you get it.


----------



## Perentie (May 12, 2013)

freedumbdclxvi said:


> Read "Sizing It Up" in the Tarantula Keeper's Guide for reasons.   If you do not own this book, I suggest you get it.


 could you just paraphrase? i will be getting the book if i do get a t, but i am interested regardless.

---------- Post added 05-12-2013 at 06:34 PM ----------

The usual "they live in burrows so they don't want a larger tank" doesn't really make sense... in the wild they might live in burrows, so they like enclosed spaces. My thought is to put a burrow in a larger enclosure, so they have a secure space, but they can wander if they so please.


----------



## Bongo Fury (May 12, 2013)

Perentie said:


> if you have a single reason for that except limited space on my part, i would love to hear it.


Smaller enclosures make it easier for the occupant to find prey items. Also, controlling humidity for slings and those species that require damper conditions is easier if containers are kept on the smaller side. The cost of these needlessly large enclosures is also a factor for most of us peasants.::


Perentie said:


> The usual "they live in burrows so they don't want a larger tank" doesn't really make sense...


It will.

Reactions: Like 3


----------



## batterybound (May 12, 2013)

Not to mention, smaller enclosures look nicer, the T is more on display as opposed to the enclosure being on display. The reason zoos keep wolves in huge spaces is because they need it; they put animals that can be kept just as healthy in smaller ones for better viewing. The same could be said of tarantulas.


----------



## Hawk (May 12, 2013)

goodyt said:


> First: Don't even talk about hassling (or handling) a T unless you are ready for a lecture.


Honestly, there really is nothing wrong with holding a T. But, that being said, it is between the handler and the T. I'm not saying go hold a Goliath Bird Eater. But holding a Avic Avic, if all precautions are taken by YOU as the holder, there is really nothing wrong with it.

Everyone tho does have an opinion on this subject. It is like petting a cat, what do you benefit? You just get to interact with a beautiful creature is all.

On a side note, great info everyone! Gotta love this forum.


----------



## freedumbdclxvi (May 12, 2013)

Hawk said:


> Honestly, there really is nothing wrong with holding a T. But, that being said, it is between the handler and the T. I'm not saying go hold a Goliath Bird Eater. But holding a Avic Avic, if all precautions are taken by YOU as the holder, there is really nothing wrong with it.
> 
> Everyone tho does have an opinion on this subject. It is like petting a cat, what does he benefit? Yah, a nice scratch, but he could of just used a wall.


Comparing handling a cat, which understands giving and receiving affection, and handling a T, which does not have the capacity for affection, is just off base.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Hawk (May 13, 2013)

freedumbdclxvi said:


> Comparing handling a cat, which understands giving and receiving affection, and handling a T, which does not have the capacity for affection, is just off base.


Wasn't really comparing T's to a cat, was saying there really is no need to pet it because you won't get anything out of it.

---------- Post added 05-12-2013 at 11:38 PM ----------




Hawk said:


> Wasn't really comparing T's to a cat, was saying there really is no need to pet it because you won't get anything out of it.


I was also saying that it is the owners decision if he decides to do it or not, just be careful about it, because they are different and can get hurt.


----------



## Poec54 (May 13, 2013)

Hawk said:


> But holding a Avic Avic, if all precautions are taken by YOU as the holder, there is really nothing wrong with it.


The ones that hold their T's are often the same ones who don't take 'all precautions.'   If you think about this predatory invert, running on instinct, with 2 grossly oversized fangs; do you really want it suddenly dashing up inside a shirtsleeve or pantleg?  Or without warning sinking it's fangs in you and not letting go?  Kind of takes the fun out of it.  The more thought you put into handling, the less likely you are to do it.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## freedumbdclxvi (May 13, 2013)

Hawk, there have been studies done about what one "gets" out of giving and receiving affection from an animal like a cat oe dog, so to say tou get "nothing" is false.


----------



## Hawk (May 13, 2013)

freedumbdclxvi said:


> Hawk, there have been studies done about what one "gets" out of giving and receiving affection from an animal like a cat oe dog, so to say tou get "nothing" is false.


I guess you're right, I wasn't really thinking. But what you get is enjoyment and happiness. I can get that from when I hold my tarantula. I can even give my tarantula affection. But you're right cats can give back affection, because they do have bigger brains. My bad, I admit that was stupid. Lol. But all in all cats aren't capable of love, but they are capable of liking.


----------



## Poec54 (May 13, 2013)

Hawk said:


> But all in all cats aren't capable of love, but they are capable of liking.


I disagree with that.  Different mammals show their love for humans in different ways.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## freedumbdclxvi (May 13, 2013)

Poec54 said:


> I disagree with that.  Different mammals show their love for humans in different ways.


Yep.  My fiance's cat stands guard over my son at night and if he is in trouble, and my skunk loves being amongst people and snuggling into my neck and shoulder area.  They show affection in many different ways.


----------



## goodyt (May 13, 2013)

Tarantulas have many dislikes about being held. That is why they run.

I think if a dubia can stand guard over babies from huge predators there must be for some reason for bugs actions that have social significance. http://youtu.be/104CbeFZLUM


-Aj

---------- Post added 05-13-2013 at 12:26 PM ----------

The female in that video wasn't even the mother!


-Aj

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Hawk (May 13, 2013)

freedumbdclxvi said:


> Yep.  My fiance's cat stands guard over my son at night and if he is in trouble, and my skunk loves being amongst people and snuggling into my neck and shoulder area.  They show affection in many different ways.


I am not trying to argue with you when I say this, but many Veterinary Behaviorist have done studies on animals and they don't have the same theory of mind as us. Doesn't mean they can't express emotion in a loving-like way, but whether they are able to love like we love is still very very debatable. Personally I don't think they can, but that is my opinion.

@goodty There is a good reason for that, it is almost embedded in their DNA to protect like that so they can continue their species on. Like mating, it is embedded in them to do so. They don't mate because they go, "Man look at that sexy roach over there!" (lol) but simply do it to continue on their species; which also kind of shows what the Veterinary Behaviorist were studying on, the Theory of Mind.


----------



## goodyt (May 13, 2013)

Hawk said:


> @goodty There is a good reason for that, it is almost embedded in their DNA to protect like that so they can continue their species on. Like mating, it is embedded in them to do so. They don't mate because they go, "Man look at that sexy roach over there!" (lol) but simply do it to continue on their species; which also kind of shows what the Veterinary Behaviorist were studying on, the Theory of Mind.


My scientific rhetoric is limited (which is why i love learning from comments like this on this forum). 

It still makes me respect their little lives while I am breeding them as fodder to see such behaviors on YouTube. Relatively, Look at "cute" guys fully knowing why ultimately I do so and guard my nephew when my sister lets me;-)



-Aj


----------



## Perentie (May 17, 2013)

ok im back, i have the same question, but without the handleability. Suggest Ts with a tendency to be out and about, any level of venom potency or aggressiveness is fine. All i want is active and a good eater.


----------



## Marijan2 (May 17, 2013)

Perentie said:


> ok im back, i have the same question, but without the handleability. Suggest Ts with a tendency to be out and about, any level of venom potency or aggressiveness is fine. All i want is active and a good eater.


any lasiodora or acanthoscurria. even pamphobeteus will do the trick


----------



## Poec54 (May 17, 2013)

Hawk said:


> . They don't mate because they go, "Man look at that sexy roach over there!" (lol) but simply do it to continue on their species; which also kind of shows what the Veterinary Behaviorist were studying on, the Theory of Mind.


Humans mate for the same reasons other animals do; just because we tend to dwell on it more doesn't make us superior.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Perentie (May 18, 2013)

Marijan2 said:


> any lasiodora or acanthoscurria. even pamphobeteus will do the trick


thanks for the help, are there any arboreals that would fit the bill?


----------



## Perentie (May 20, 2013)

looking into pokies... Im in love


----------



## Poec54 (May 20, 2013)

Perentie said:


> looking into pokies... Im in love


Make that a long term goal.  You don't have the experience yet.  You do not want an escaped Poec loose in the house.  I don't handle my spiders, and yet two months ago I had a regalis run inside my pant leg when I was doing a cage transfer.  

Please, work your way up to the 'advanced' species.


----------



## goodyt (May 21, 2013)

Poec54 said:


> Make that a long term goal.  You don't have the experience yet.  You do not want an escaped Poec loose in the house.  I don't handle my spiders, and yet two months ago I had a regalis run inside my pant leg when I was doing a cage transfer.
> 
> Please, work your way up to the 'advanced' species.


I completely back this up. It took me two years of learning the ins me outs of T's before I decided on the Old World tarantulas. Their venom alone is freaky to deal with. I started with a couple Ornata 1" slings before going to the more expensive metallicas to make sure I was careful with these investments.


----------



## DamonM (May 21, 2013)

Pokies aren't the monsters people put them out to be. I got my first pokie when I was still very much a n00b. They aren't nearly as aggressive as even my GBBs. All they do is run really fast. As long as you know how to take care of them and leave them alone for the most part, anyone could take care of a pokie.

Necessary info for a pokie: 
~ arboreal 
~ fast 
~ potent venom 
~ higher humidity than most Ts 

If you need years of research to figure that out, then...idk. Don't keep them.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Rhodin (May 21, 2013)

DamonM said:


> Pokies aren't the monsters people put them out to be. I got my first pokie when I was still very much a n00b. They aren't nearly as aggressive as even my GBBs. All they do is run really fast. As long as you know how to take care of them and leave them alone for the most part, anyone could take care of a pokie.


I'll agree with this. Some people don't have nearly enough space to keep a good 10+ Ts before getting the one they really want and some people have experience with other potentially dangerous animals/inverts and will be more prepared than your average 10-20 year old who is just getting their first venomous pet. So if you're one of those people than maybe the best choice is to buy a pokie and have it as a nice display terrarium in your home. In saying that, if you do have the space and want to have multiple Ts(which seems likely since you're posting on this board) then I would suggest starting with something a little less potent venom wise/less speedy. Also if you don't live alone I would really suggest running the idea of a potent venom tarantula by whoever you're living with. Be it your parents/ a roomate or your significant other, whoever you live with will likely want to know and might not agree you with keeping a T that is considered to have strong venom.


----------



## Poec54 (May 21, 2013)

DamonM said:


> Pokies aren't the monsters people put them out to be. I got my first pokie when I was still very much a n00b. They aren't nearly as aggressive as even my GBBs. All they do is run really fast. As long as you know how to take care of them and leave them alone for the most part, anyone could take care of a pokie.
> 
> Necessary info for a pokie:
> ~ arboreal
> ...


I don't what your experience with Poecs is, but I've got 130 of them (all 13 species in the USA) and it's not quite that easy.  Along with being fast, they are unpredictable.  I don't handle them, but I've still had them race out of cages and inside shirt sleeves and pant legs.  It's very easy to have an escape if you don't wrok well under pressure, and if you live with other people, these are not spiders you want someone else to get bit by when they sit on the couch or crawl into bed.  That'll go over great if a child gets bit.  Or your wife or parents.  It's easy to be complacent and say Poecs are no big deal, until something goes wrong.  If you've read first hand accounts of bites, you know that they're way beyond bee stings.  Newbies aren't prepared to deal with the things the unexpected things that can go wrong.  

With comments like 'Anyone can take care of a Poec' it shows you don't know as much as you think you do.  They are not for beginners; some beginners get away with owning them, but others are going to have some bad experiences.  We have a thread here now titled 'No idea they were going to eb that fast'.  As all of the posters agreed, nothing can prepare you for it.  You were lucky, not everyone is going to be.  It's our responsibility here to steer them in the right direction and have them work up to the advanced species.  We can police this hobby ourselves, or someone else will eventually do it for us.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## freedumbdclxvi (May 21, 2013)

Well said, Poec.


----------



## Rhodin (May 21, 2013)

Poec54 said:


> I don't what your experience with Poecs is, but I've got 130 of them...   I don't handle them, but I've still had them race out of cages and inside shirt sleeves and pant legs.
> ... As all of the posters agreed, nothing can prepare you for it.


So I know I cut out allot of your post but this three sentences really kinda baffled me. If you have so much experience, then why can't you avoid your Ts racing out of the enclosures? Do you mean to tell me even though you have years and years of experience sometimes even someone like yourself has slip ups and has to deal with a run away T? You advocate that people need experience in order to be able to deal with these Ts but clearly you still have run-aways. As long as someone has done research, has the confidence and knows what they are capable of(much like yourself, except you have real life experience aswell) then I would see it as a persons choice. I can understand why you would want to steer this person in the direction of a safer T but keep in mind there are no recorded deaths by tarantula. We aren't talking about a hot snake or scorp that could kill a healthy adult. The last thing I quoted further proves my point, if nothing can prepare you for it then why are you suggesting that he try to do things to "prepare himself"
There is allot of your post that I will agree with but in the end, the person should buy a T he wants. He should be well informed about said T and be sure anyone in his household is aware and okay with the purchase, as anyone should with buying any animal/invert.

I will say that perhaps it would be better to start with a psalmopoeus so that way you still get the arboreal T and you have the speed but the bite would be less potent. After becoming accustomed to the speed you could then look towards pokies.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Spiderkyle (May 21, 2013)

I really enjoy my a.metallica for a docile species, worst it will do is shoot poop at me haha, fast little thing too. Only handled it once to do a tank swap but I would never fear aggression. But be careful as I'm sure most have posted all species could be aggressive no matter how docile the genus may be, also well said poec, I just recently purchased my first 2 pokies, p.striatas, beautiful but demand respect as they are lightning fast mixed with a potential of a very nasty bite they definitely require experience. As long as you use your head you should pull out on top, 5 years and no bites....yet


----------



## Poec54 (May 21, 2013)

Rhodin said:


> If you have so much experience, then why can't you avoid escapes? You advocate that people need experience in order to be able to deal with these Ts but clearly you still have escapes.


Don't know how you drew that conclusion, but I don't have escapes, nor have I been bitten in the 40 years I've had T's.  However, when working with very fast species sometimes they will race out of the cage when you're doing maintenance or cage tansfers.  It's going to happen, and no amount of reading can prepare you for it.  I can usually keep them from getting out, but once in a while you can't react fast enough.  I'm always able to get them back in the cages.  This is where experience makes the difference.  Newbies have no experience to fall back on when one sprints across the floor or up a wall, or up your arm and on the back of your shirt.  They're likely to panic.  It's bad enough when a Psalmo does it, even worse with a Poec.  There is no 'being informed' when it comes to this, just as you can't learn to swim by reading a book.  Research doesn't prepare you for it.     

I totally disagree that beginners 'should buy what they want.'  They CAN buy what they want, it's a free country, but some of them get in over their head by purchasing the 'pretty spider' that they're afraid of and can't control.  In Florida, you used to be able to buy venomous snakes, including black mambas, with no prior experience with snakes at all.  There was some poor judgement by individuals (bites and escapes), and the state stepped in.  Now 1,000 hours of training are required before you can legally own one.  Kind of extreme, but too many beginners jumped into things that were beyond their skill level.  T's don't pose the medical risk that snakes do, but most people live with others, and escapes involve more than just the owner.  You don't want a neighborhood kid getting bit by your escaped T when she comes over to play.  Another problem is that many people handle their Ts, and some don't have the sense not to handle old worlds, including Poecs.  Shows offs have messed up many animal-related hobbies.  Long-term, responsible owners pay the price.  I don't see why beginners can't take this hobby in stages and work their way up from beginner to intermidiate to advanced species.  Jumping in the deep end isn't the way to start working with these animals.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## freedumbdclxvi (May 21, 2013)

Well said again, Poec.  And as you alluded, there is a big difference between a spider bolting out of an enclosure and an actual escape.


----------



## Rhodin (May 21, 2013)

Poec54 said:


> Don't know how you drew that conclusion, but I don't have escapes, nor have I been bitten in the 40 years I've had T's.  However, when working with very fast species sometimes they will race out of the cage when you're doing maintenance or cage tansfers.  It's going to happen, and no amount of reading can prepare you for it.  I can usually keep them from getting out, but once in a while you can't react fast enough.  I'm always able to get them back in the cages.  This is where experience makes the difference.  Newbies have no experience to fall back on when one sprints across the floor or up a wall, or up your arm and on the back of your shirt.  They're likely to panic.  It's bad enough when a Psalmo does it, even worse with a Poec.  There is no 'being informed' when it comes to this, just as you can't learn to swim by reading a book.  Research doesn't prepare you for it.
> 
> I totally disagree that beginners 'should buy what they want.'  They CAN buy what they want, it's a free country, but some of them get in over their head by purchasing the 'pretty spider' that they're afraid of and can't control.  In Florida, you used to be able to buy venomous snakes, including black mambas, with no prior experience with snakes at all.  There was some poor judgement by individuals (bites and escapes), and the state stepped in.  Now 1,000 hours of training are required before you can legally own one.  Kind of extreme, but too many beginners jumped into things that were beyond their skill level.  T's don't pose the medical risk that snakes do, but most people live with others, and escapes involve more than just the owner.  You don't want a neighborhood kid getting bit by your escaped T when she comes over to play.  Another problem is that many people handle their Ts, and some don't have the sense not to handle old worlds, including Poecs.  Shows offs have messed up many animal-related hobbies.  Long-term, responsible owners pay the price.  I don't see why beginners can't take this hobby in stages and work their way up from beginner to intermidiate to advanced species.  Jumping in the deep end isn't the way to start working with these animals.


Sorry I worded it poorly, when I said escapes I was referring to when you said you've had Ts bolt up your arms. I will edit my post to correct that. I've already said that whoever any owner lives with should be asked/notified of Ts coming in the house and any possible threat they pose. I also said that they should be able to buy any spider that they have researched sufficiently and feel CONFIDENT keeping. With this research you would also realize that you should not be handle OW and you should only deal with them during feeding and rehousing. I also really don't like the swimming reference, we are talking about a non-lethal tarantula that may never even bite you if you take the precautions you learned about through your hours and hours and hours of research not jumping into the deep end of a pool when you haven't the slightest idea on how to swim. Drowning is a very real danger that approx 3,533 die from every year(stats from 2005-2009) in non boating related accidents. How many again have died from being bit from a pokie?

Now I have had to re state some of my opinions because you don't seem interested in reading my posts fully but I guess I will end it here by saying we will just have to agree to disagree. I think that given the proper amount of research,informing anyone living under the same roof and confidence in that research/personal ability someone can care for a fast and mean tarantula without the experience of caring for tarantulas that aren't mean and fast. You don't
I also think that this isn't the best course of action and that when possible testing the waters with tarantulas that are easy to keep and mostly harmless will likely benefit the keeper and help to keep bad situations from happening.


----------



## Poec54 (May 21, 2013)

Rhodin said:


> I also said that they should be able to buy any spider that they have researched sufficiently and feel CONFIDENT keeping.


You can feel as confident as you want when you buy a 1/2" T.  That's the easy part.  When that Usambara is 2" and you touch the outside of it's contanier (without opening it) and it stands, extends it's fands, and stridulates, then a newbie's confidence is likely to disappear when he has to open that container to feed and water it.  Usambaras are very fast, famous for bolting out of cages, and won't hesitate to bite anything in their way.  You think a beginner can do some 'reaseach' online and be able to deal with that?  In NO WAY can reading prepare you for the speed and fury.  It takes steady nerves from first-hand experience with other T's to begin to deal with an OBT erupting.  We have a guy currently posting that's afraid of his Brachypelma.  It takes time and working with the animals to get REAL confindence, not reading.  

A couple incidents in the past week with Psalmo juveniles to illustrate my point: a cambridgei has twice attacked an empty plastic water bowl I was setting in it's cage, each time biting it, knocking it out of my forcept, rolling over on it's back and continuing to bite and wrestle with the water bowl.  That could have been my finger.  All 6 of my Irminia juveniles 'exploded' racing after the crickets I put in their cages tonight (they had all recently molted).  One shot out of the deli cup in it's chase, even though the cricket was still in the cup.  Beginners wet themselves when the 'family pet' does things like this.   For a newbie those could have easily been escapes.  These are just not the species to start with.  Research is only an introductory step, and can't possibly take the place of actually doing something.  You can't live your life in front of a computer screen or playing videos games.  There's a world out there of real things, things that run and bite, and you have to gain the experience to be able to deal with them.  There's no substitute for the real thing.


----------



## Perentie (May 22, 2013)

I agree with poec to some extent. I know they are not easy to keep, but I believe that with precaution it is not impossible to do it without error. I have had some experience with ts, even though i do not own any yet. I have regularly helped a friend with his 200+ ts. I have worked with venomous animals that could put me in much worse conditions than a pokie. My plan is to hopefully get a "training t" and pretend it is a pokie. Once i get one I will never have my hands in the enclosure, i will use 24" tongs for everything. I will never open the enclosure without knowing exactly where the t is. Any activity regarding opening the tank will be in my bathroom where it cannot go far if it escapes, and there is room for me to jump back if it crawls towards me.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## DamonM (May 22, 2013)

Lol. I'm pretty sure I know how to keep a pokie. I have grown them from slings and never had one escape. If anyone is careless here, it's you poec. Maybe don't mess with your spider and it won't run out. Or give it a place to hide maybe? (A hiding spider won't bolt unless it feels the need)

Edit: just because you have 100+ pokies doesn't make you automatically correct.


----------



## Marijan2 (May 23, 2013)

ontopic: i consider pokies medium hard species to keep, i'd personally be more careful wih some other OW species. if the guy knows the risk and feel confident, i say go for it


----------



## kean (May 23, 2013)

to the topic starter..

i'd suggest E. Campestratus or G. Pulchripes  

most brachys flick too much hair.. well they differ individually.. but grammostola's are much docile in terms of flicking urticating hairs.. :biggrin:


----------



## Poec54 (May 23, 2013)

DamonM said:


> Lol. I'm pretty sure I know how to keep a pokie. I have grown them from slings and never had one escape. If anyone is careless here, it's you poec. Maybe don't mess with your spider and it won't run out. Or give it a place to hide maybe? (A hiding spider won't bolt unless it feels the need)
> 
> Edit: just because you have 100+ pokies doesn't make you automatically correct.


No, but it does mean I have experience, and have seen all kinds of things happen, things that some people think will never happen to them.  The more spiders you have, the more you see what they're capable of.  True, 'a hiding spider won't bolt unless it feels the need' but you don't know that, until it bolts.  Don't assume you've seen it all yet.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## freedumbdclxvi (May 23, 2013)

Poec54 said:


> Don't assume you've seen it all yet.


+1.  When you do this, either quit the hobby or expect a bite, cause you're getting complacent.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Poec54 (May 23, 2013)

freedumbdclxvi said:


> +1.  When you do this, either quit the hobby or expect a bite, cause you're getting complacent.


+1.  If you're convinced you know what all of your spiders will do everytime you open the lid, then either you don't have many spiders or much time in the hobby, or you're in for some big surprises.  I never dreamed that during simple cage transfers for several 3" regalis, that I'd being taking off my shorts and looking inside them for one of the spiders.  You can open a cage every week for months with the spider sitting calmly, and then one day it decides to race out on the floor before you can react.  Who knows what triggered it.  This is all part of life with tropical species.  Expect the unexpected.  Beginners have no way to prepare for these things when they actually happen in front of them, no matter how much reading they're done in advance.  The situations vary widely, and are fast and fluid.  If you don't have much time, or any time, with the slow docile species (which have a few surprises of their own), there's no way you're prepared for the fast, fiesty ones.  The current thread about 'I never knew they were so fast' tells a lot.


----------



## PeaceBee (May 24, 2013)

Just thought I'd share my own experience on this, being new-ish to the hobby, myself.  My boyfriend got me a G. rosea in December - my first T.  I was enjoying taking care of it and furiously nerding out, I made a statement that CHANGED EVERYTHING! (dramatic effect!)

I said that *one day* I would really like to have a P. regalis.  You know, after I had enough experience and whatnot.  Weeks later, as I was still learning the ropes of taking care of a T and learning not to follow care sheets and all that, he surprised me with a P. regalis.  I was really wary, as I didn't feel ready for it at all, but flattered by the gift.  I was excited and nervous.  Anyway, the enclosure was a plastic cereal container, which was fine, but it had this large piece of fake coral in it, which I wanted to swap out for a cork bark tube.  After seeing many tarantula videos online, I thought that this little thing would go exactly where I wanted it to.  It TELEPORTED.  Being new and not at all sure of how to react, I frantically chased it with a cup, and in the process of catching it, it lost two legs (which are back as puny-legs now).  Looking back, I'm glad that's all that happened to it.

Since that experience I have been VERY cautious not to underestimate my little eight-legged friends.  I know EXACTLY where they are anytime I open the lid so as not to have any incidents.  Now I have two pokies, and while I am hypervigilant around them, I feel a little more confident because I know what to expect - magic powers of teleportation and unexpectedness.  I would have preferred to learn the unexpectedness from something a little less speedy and frantic, personally.

My LP is a very good eater and seems fairly calm.  It's just a sling right now, but fun to watch grow!  I also have a G. pulchripes, but due to giving it lots of substrate to burrow around in, it has become a pet hole.  I even thought it had perished for a while   Give some consideration to what you hear on these boards.  These folks are really knowledgeable and speak from experience, and I have learned a great deal from them!  

TL;DR - I don't recommend a pokie for a beginner, but if you do go that route, understand that they have MAGICAL POWERS.  My LP and G. pulchripes are cool.  The ArachnoBoards folks are super awesome and know lots of things!

Reactions: Like 4


----------



## Mario1234 (May 24, 2013)

Poecs are awesome T s! Respect them.. They are being made out as "not for noobs". If you are patient and love the hobby and do your research they are rewarding! For some weird reason some keepers think they are experts.. Methinks they are in need of attention!


----------



## goodyt (May 24, 2013)

Mario1234 said:


> Methinks they are in need of attention!


Yes, I love attention, but I am also happy that my P metallicas are alive, accounted for and have all their limbs. That's the holy trinity for this $3000 collection of less than a dozen spiders. Not to mention, I have not been tagged yet with three years in the hobby. But attention? I could always use more. ;-)


----------



## Hawk (May 24, 2013)

PeaceBee said:


> Just thought I'd share my own experience on this, being new-ish to the hobby, myself.  My boyfriend got me a G. rosea in December - my first T.  I was enjoying taking care of it and furiously nerding out, I made a statement that CHANGED EVERYTHING! (dramatic effect!)
> 
> I said that *one day* I would really like to have a P. regalis.  You know, after I had enough experience and whatnot.  Weeks later, as I was still learning the ropes of taking care of a T and learning not to follow care sheets and all that, he surprised me with a P. regalis.  I was really wary, as I didn't feel ready for it at all, but flattered by the gift.  I was excited and nervous.  Anyway, the enclosure was a plastic cereal container, which was fine, but it had this large piece of fake coral in it, which I wanted to swap out for a cork bark tube.  After seeing many tarantula videos online, I thought that this little thing would go exactly where I wanted it to.  It TELEPORTED.  Being new and not at all sure of how to react, I frantically chased it with a cup, and in the process of catching it, it lost two legs (which are back as puny-legs now).  Looking back, I'm glad that's all that happened to it.
> 
> ...


Try catching a fast spider that, after darts off somewhere, doesn't want to move to go into a cup. Took my like two hours to get that lil sucker back in his enclosure! lol


----------



## freedumbdclxvi (May 24, 2013)

Mario1234 said:


> Poecs are awesome T s! Respect them.. They are being made out as "not for noobs". If you are patient and love the hobby and do your research they are rewarding! For some weird reason some keepers think they are experts.. Methinks they are in need of attention!


You advise patience and respect then chide people for saying Poecis aren't for noobs.  Which view are you backing?

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Poec54 (May 24, 2013)

Mario1234 said:


> Poecs are awesome T s! Respect them.. They are being made out as "not for noobs". If you are patient and love the hobby and do your research they are rewarding! For some weird reason some keepers think they are experts...


Poecs ARE for experienced keepers.  Too many things can go wrong when a beginner panics, like bites and escapes.  There's usually other people living in the house to think about.  There's no rush, take it in stages and don't try to start in the fast lane.


----------



## 845BigRed (May 24, 2013)

Poec54 said:


> Poecs ARE for experienced keepers... when a beginner panics, like bites and escapes.


I'd argue that, I'm still pretty new and I have a 1.5 inch Regalis and a 1 inch Fasciata. The Regalis actually made an escape attempt up my arm today.

So long as you stay relaxed and do what you need to do nothing will go wrong, I didn't panic having this one run up my arm, it stopped and I put the top to the container in front of it, encouraged it on, and then encouraged it to go back home. Took a few extra minutes cause ya I'm new.

I should mention though I've worked with animals since 2006 so I learned a long time ago to expect anything, be ready and don't panic.


----------



## PeaceBee (May 24, 2013)

Hawk said:


> Try catching a fast spider that, after darts off somewhere, doesn't want to move to go into a cup. Took my like two hours to get that lil sucker back in his enclosure! lol


Hah!  It took a few tries to capture it, but I count myself very lucky.

I also agree with Poec54.  Had I been more experienced I feel I would have been able to better anticipate and thus plan better for the transfer.  Like I said, it ended up working out for me, possibly by sheer luck as it decided to freeze and stop in a convenient place, but it could have easily escaped and been eaten by the cat or bitten someone.

Had it been my choice, out of the small collection I have now, I would have maybe stuck with my LP to start with (my G. rosea is a ferocious demon!)

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Perentie (May 24, 2013)

Ok, new plan: start out with an avic, then move on to an intermediate t, any suggestions? then get a p.regalis. My whole reason for the jump to a regalis earlier was the fact that pokies are my favorite ts, and I didn't want to get a different t and not be able to get the regalis due to the limits put down by my parents. I just got the OK to get three, so I'm all set for now.


----------



## PeaceBee (May 24, 2013)

Perentie said:


> Ok, new plan: start out with an avic, then move on to an intermediate t, any suggestions? then get a p.regalis. My whole reason for the jump to a regalis earlier was the fact that pokies are my favorite ts, and I didn't want to get a different t and not be able to get the regalis due to the limits put down by my parents. I just got the OK to get three, so I'm all set for now.


Hooraaaaay!  I'm really excited for you!    That sounds like a good plan.  Avics are super cool!
I'm kind of going backwards.  I'm getting my first avic tomorrow, as well


----------



## Rhodin (May 25, 2013)

Perentie said:


> Ok, new plan: start out with an avic, then move on to an intermediate t, any suggestions? then get a p.regalis. My whole reason for the jump to a regalis earlier was the fact that pokies are my favorite ts, and I didn't want to get a different t and not be able to get the regalis due to the limits put down by my parents. I just got the OK to get three, so I'm all set for now.


if you plan on going for a regalis after this next T I would suggest a p.irminia or some other T that packs the speed of a pokie but not as bad of a bite.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Poec54 (May 25, 2013)

Perentie said:


> Ok, new plan: start out with an avic, then move on to an intermediate t, any suggestions? then get a p.regalis. My whole reason for the jump to a regalis earlier was the fact that pokies are my favorite ts, and I didn't want to get a different t and not be able to get the regalis due to the limits put down by my parents. I just got the OK to get three, so I'm all set for now.


A beginner living with his parents should hold off on a regalis, for a while.  An escape and possible bite of an innocent person is more serious than many T's, and that is not going to go over well.  You're not ready for it yet, nor should you take the risk, and risk to your family until you've had a lot more experience with T's.  The fact that it's your favorite T is irrelevant.  You're still young, why be in a rush?

---------- Post added 05-25-2013 at 05:37 AM ----------




845BigRed said:


> I'd argue that, I'm still pretty new and I have a 1.5 inch Regalis and a 1 inch Fasciata. The Regalis actually made an escape attempt up my arm today.
> 
> So long as you stay relaxed and do what you need to do nothing will go wrong, I didn't panic having this one run up my arm, it stopped and I put the top to the container in front of it, encouraged it on, and then encouraged it to go back home. Took a few extra minutes cause ya I'm new.


A couple slings does not qualify you as experienced Poec keeper, that doesn't even count; they don't bite at that size.  There's many things you haven't seen and experienced yet.  Poecs grow very fast and yours will be subadults soon, and that's a whole new ballgame.  You had a sling up your arm already, that's nothing like having a 6" one do it.  You yourself just might panic yourself with that, especially if it tries to bite.  Your intentions are good, but you need a lot more time and experience working with them before you can give any quality advice to other newbies.  It is not a walk in the park.

Reactions: Like 3


----------



## Perentie (May 25, 2013)

Poec54 said:


> A beginner living with his parents should hold off on a regalis, for a while.  An escape and possible bite of an innocent person is more serious than many T's, and that is not going to go over well.  You're not ready for it yet, nor should you take the risk, and risk to your family until you've had a lot more experience with T's.  The fact that it's your favorite T is irrelevant.  You're still young, why be in a rush?.


 An escape would be limited to a room with nobody in it but me, and  if i worked my way up to it like I said, wouldn't that give me the experience necessary? The reason I stated that it is my favorite t is that I'm concerned that getting something that does not interest me as much and having it bore me will deter me from getting into ts. Let me ask you, when you were young did you ever want to wait? If i wait forever I may never get the chance. I have the opportunity to go work with a friend, and have him help me out with getting some experience. This way I can learn what it takes to take care of them without actually committing to owning one.


----------



## Mario1234 (May 26, 2013)

Wondering how one is supposed to gain experience with a specie without actually having a specimen?


----------



## Perentie (May 26, 2013)

Mario1234 said:


> Wondering how one is supposed to gain experience with a specie without actually having a specimen?


 by working up to it with a less hot, but equally speedy sp.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## freedumbdclxvi (May 26, 2013)

Perentie said:


> An escape would be limited to a room with nobody in it but me, and  if i worked my way up to it like I said, wouldn't that give me the experience necessary? The reason I stated that it is my favorite t is that I'm concerned that getting something that does not interest me as much and having it bore me will deter me from getting into ts. Let me ask you, when you were young did you ever want to wait? If i wait forever I may never get the chance. I have the opportunity to go work with a friend, and have him help me out with getting some experience. This way I can learn what it takes to take care of them without actually committing to owning one.


Only the P regalis interests you?  There have to be others you find interesting - what about an Avic versicolor?  Amazing color change, quick and relatively docile.  Keep it for a while and get yourself a Psalmo irminia.   A bit of a step up and will get you equipped to deal with your regalis.  Both T's are gorgeous and rewarding.

As for waiting,  I know it can be hard but it is worth it for you, the people around you and your spider.   You want to make sure you are ready to give it the best possible care while having the knowledge of what to do in case of an eneegency.  Plus, the people around you *should* feel more confident in your ability to handle any emergency situations that arise.

I have been waiting six hobby years (and a bit over two decades overall) to feel comfortable getting the spider I have always wanted.  Does it feel like forever at times?  Yes but I knew I needed the experience with many other types before I could even consider owning what I wanted.  Now the opportunity is coming up, and I feel far better for it.  Hang in there, get yourself an Avic you like and start your journey to your spider.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Poec54 (May 27, 2013)

Mario1234 said:


> Wondering how one is supposed to gain experience with a specie without actually having a specimen?


You work your way up in stages, and get a feel for what those spiders can do, and when comfortable with that, go to the next level.  You don't see student drivers being hired to race cars.

---------- Post added 05-27-2013 at 07:41 AM ----------




Perentie said:


> An escape would be limited to a room with nobody in it but me, and  if i worked my way up to it like I said, wouldn't that give me the experience necessary? The reason I stated that it is my favorite t is that I'm concerned that getting something that does not interest me as much and having it bore me will deter me from getting into ts. Let me ask you, when you were young did you ever want to wait? If i wait forever I may never get the chance. I have the opportunity to go work with a friend, and have him help me out with getting some experience. This way I can learn what it takes to take care of them without actually committing to owning one.


I certainly doubt that that room is sealed so well that a spider couldn't squeeze out through a closed door.  There is no shortage of threads here about escaped tarantulas.    

'If I wait forever, I may never get the chance.'  The famous words of impulsive youth.  There are more species available now than there ever has been, and the hobby keeps expanding.  The more people with spiders, the more they're bred, and the lower the prices are.  Waiting is good.  You're not going to miss anything.  

As a beginner, if you're 'bored' by any T's, I question whether you're wanting a spider for the right reasons.  They are not overly active, 'exciting' animals.  They have slow metabolisms and rest the vast majority of the time.  The solution to keeping a wavering interest level is not to start off with a fast, defensive, and potent spider that's beyond your skill level.  This hobby is looking like it might not be a good fit for you.  There are other animals more suited for you at this point in your life.


----------



## Perentie (May 27, 2013)

Poec54 said:


> As a beginner, if you're 'bored' by any T's, I question whether you're wanting a spider for the right reasons.  They are not overly active, 'exciting' animals.  They have slow metabolisms and rest the vast majority of the time.  The solution to keeping a wavering interest level is not to start off with a fast, defensive, and potent spider that's beyond your skill level.  This hobby is looking like it might not be a good fit for you.  There are other animals more suited for you at this point in your life.


 I want a t because they fascinate me. Not to show friends, not to feed mice. Yes, i am aware of the way they act, I have kept other animals that act similarly. I guess boring might not be the best word for it, more like less interested in comparison to a different sp. possibly I'm just over thinking things- i have a tendency to worry about whether or not i will like a pet a bit too much, which i guess isn't necessarily a bad thing- I have decided to take it slow, Starting with a terrestrial (maybe a G. pulchripes), then getting an Avic Avic. After that i would most likely get something like a GBB, then possibly one of the psalmos. Due to limits put down by parents I will not get a pokie most likely until college or after.


----------



## Poec54 (May 27, 2013)

Perentie said:


> I have decided to take it slow, Starting with a terrestrial (maybe a G. pulchripes), then getting an Avic Avic. After that i would most likely get something like a GBB, then possibly one of the psalmos. Due to limits put down by parents I will not get a pokie most likely until college or after.


I'm glad to hear this.  This is the way to do it when you're in it as a long-term hobby.  You'll get more enjoyment from it.  Pulchripes is a great spider, I have a few.  Big, beautiful animals.  Avics are the best way to start with arboreals: they're fairly quick (in short spurts), and they jump, but don't have the incredible speed, or short tempers, of the long-legged arboreals, so it's a good transition.


----------



## Perentie (May 27, 2013)

Poec54 said:


> I'm glad to hear this.  This is the way to do it when you're in it as a long-term hobby.  You'll get more enjoyment from it.  Pulchripes is a great spider, I have a few.  Big, beautiful animals.  Avics are the best way to start with arboreals: they're fairly quick (in short spurts), and they jump, but don't have the incredible speed, or short tempers, of the long-legged arboreals, so it's a good transition.


Yeah, this is usually how i am, and i even anticipated it in the start... I fall in love with a species that would be out of my league, then I end up taking it back a notch. The only case where i did not do that was with my Uromastyx philbyi.... one of the rarer species in the hobby and it was my first lizard, still doing great


----------



## Mario1234 (May 27, 2013)

I started a few years ago with a P.irminia , S.calceatum , H.maculata, P.ornata ,P.cancerides and a P.regalis. Grew into caring for them properly. These T s are regarded as "hot". I have cared for them to adult stage and never had a problem. The warnings are over rated. If you are responsible, no problem. To try and "warn"  so called noobs is boasting about your own ability.


----------



## Perentie (May 27, 2013)

Mario1234 said:


> I started a few years ago with a P.irminia , S.calceatum , H.maculata, P.ornata ,P.cancerides and a P.regalis. Grew into caring for them properly. These T s are regarded as "hot". I have cared for them to adult stage and never had a problem. The warnings are over rated. If you are responsible, no problem. To try and "warn"  so called noobs is boasting about your own ability.


 To say you started with t's for experienced keepers achieves the same affect.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## freedumbdclxvi (May 27, 2013)

Perentie said:


> To say you started with t's for experienced keepers achieves the same affect.


+1 and well said.


----------



## Perentie (May 27, 2013)

^ Thanks man
... Just found out I'll be missing the next repticon  looks like I'll have to wait a while...


----------



## Rhodin (May 27, 2013)

Perentie said:


> To say you started with t's for experienced keepers achieves the same affect.


Doesn't make what he said any less true. With hot snakes, scorps,trues or other venemous creatures it's a very different story as there is the possibility of death. To my knowledge there is not one single recorded death that can be 100% attributed to the bite of a tarantula. Comparing to those things or jumping off the deep end or even racing cars before you learn how to drive are all poor comparisons because people can die from a cobra bite, a scorpion sting, drowning, or car crashes.

I still don't think people should start with the more dangerous species if they can avoid it but given the proper amount of respect, knowledge and confidence it can and has been done. In the end, I think the best way of going about it is giving people information and your opinion and leaving it at that. Shoving your opinion down someones throat has not been known to work very well.(think of those people who come to your door from time to time)


----------



## Perentie (May 27, 2013)

Rhodin said:


> Doesn't make what he said any less true. With hot snakes, scorps,trues or other venemous creatures it's a very different story as there is the possibility of death. To my knowledge there is not one single recorded death that can be 100% attributed to the bite of a tarantula. Comparing to those things or jumping off the deep end or even racing cars before you learn how to drive are all poor comparisons because people can die from a cobra bite, a scorpion sting, drowning, or car crashes.
> 
> I still don't think people should start with the more dangerous species if they can avoid it but given the proper amount of respect, knowledge and confidence it can and has been done. In the end, I think the best way of going about it is giving people information and your opinion and leaving it at that. Shoving your opinion down someones throat has not been known to work very well.(think of those people who come to your door from time to time)


 Yes, I try not to force my ideas on anyone, and i do hate those people... (Im agnostic) I was just saying that if someone has the oppurtunity to get lots of ts, there is no reason to start with a dangerous animal. While there are no recorded deaths, I would imagine an alcoholic getting bit could change that (Bad kidneys)

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## freedumbdclxvi (May 27, 2013)

You want to be responsible for death number one?  It is the job of experienced keepers to explain that some T's are a bit more than innocuous hair kickers with a bee sting bite.  Couple that with anecdotal evidence that there are young children who have *possibly* died from Haplopelma bites, and we see "jumping in the deep end" isn't the brightest idea.  Can it be done?  Sure.  But I am certain a noob keeper *could* keep a krait or Leiurus or Phoneutria without incident - but I certainly *would* not advocate it.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Poec54 (May 27, 2013)

Mario1234 said:


> I started a few years ago with a P.irminia , S.calceatum , H.maculata, P.ornata ,P.cancerides and a P.regalis. Grew into caring for them properly. These T s are regarded as "hot". I have cared for them to adult stage and never had a problem. The warnings are over rated. If you are responsible, no problem. To try and "warn"  so called noobs is boasting about your own ability.


Some people can get away with that, many can't.  For a beginner to get Poecilotheria and Stromatopelma is poor judgement, especially if you live with other people.  Just because YOU 'never had a problem' doesn't mean others won't; luck was on your side.  Most experienced T keepers/collectors aren't able to deal with adult Stromatopelma.   

'The warnings are overrated. If you are responsible, no problem': You're giving this advice to a kid who lives with his parents, which again shows questionable jugement.  This is how the government gets involved and bans animals.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Rhodin (May 27, 2013)

freedumbdclxvi said:


> You want to be responsible for death number one?  It is the job of experienced keepers to explain that some T's are a bit more than innocuous hair kickers with a bee sting bite.  Couple that with anecdotal evidence that there are young children who have *possibly* died from Haplopelma bites, and we see "jumping in the deep end" isn't the brightest idea.  Can it be done?  Sure.  But I am certain a noob keeper *could* keep a krait or Leiurus or Phoneutria without incident - but I certainly *would* not advocate it.


Here you are comparing to hot trues,snakes and scorps again. I've explained a couple times why that doesnt make sense. I also said that people should be educated and you should feel free to share your opinions but you don't need to shove them down the throat of a new keeper. Unless you have factual evidence that any tarantula has killed anyone I wouldn't go around saying it. I have seen people bitten by pokies and read bite reports for other ""hot"" tarantulas, sure they aren't even close to pleasant but they don't kill.


----------



## Perentie (May 27, 2013)

Rhodin said:


> Here you are comparing to hot trues,snakes and scorps again. I've explained a couple times why that doesnt make sense. I also said that people should be educated and you should feel free to share your opinions but you don't need to shove them down the throat of a new keeper. Unless you have factual evidence that any tarantula has killed anyone I wouldn't go around saying it. I have seen people bitten by pokies and read bite reports for other ""hot"" tarantulas, sure they aren't even close to pleasant but they don't kill.


 Nonetheless there is still the possibility, freedumbdcixvi did make a point of saying POSSIBLY when he made that post. I do not feel as though anyone is trying to shove any information down my throat, they are only doing what you yourself said was acceptable. Sharing opinions.

---------- Post added 05-27-2013 at 06:15 PM ----------




Poec54 said:


> 'The warnings are overrated. If you are responsible, no problem': You're giving this advice to a kid who lives with his parents, which again shows questionable judgement.  .


 Agreed. While I am only 13, I try to be as informed about an animal as possible. I at times feel as though I am not given respect where respect is due. As frustrating as this is I understand it. More impressionable kids might take things like what he said and go do something way out of their experience level. It is pretty annoying when people refuse to take my opinions into account only based on my age, not my knowledge. I realize there are some stupid kids my age out there, but I urge you not to look at me like that, look at me like another human being who is trying to enter this amazing hobby.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## freedumbdclxvi (May 27, 2013)

Rhodin said:


> Here you are comparing to hot trues,snakes and scorps again. I've explained a couple times why that doesnt make sense. I also said that people should be educated and you should feel free to share your opinions but you don't need to shove them down the throat of a new keeper. Unless you have factual evidence that any tarantula has killed anyone I wouldn't go around saying it. I have seen people bitten by pokies and read bite reports for other ""hot"" tarantulas, sure they aren't even close to pleasant but they don't kill.


What you have done is tried to make yourself feel better by saying why you *think* it doesn't make sense.  What I have said is why it does - there are possible cases and all it will take is *one* teen who doesn't want to wait to be the first to die, and then our hobby is rocked to the core.  No one is shoving anything down anyone's throat - we are offering reasons why people should NOT get these spiders without prior experience.  If the OP isn't feeling as if we are forcing things on her, why do you - especially when out the other side of your mouth you are *basically* agreeing with what we are saying?

Again - bottom line - all it takes is one irresponsible death for the hammer to come down on us.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Perentie (May 27, 2013)

freedumbdclxvi said:


> What you have done is tried to make yourself feel better by saying why you *think* it doesn't make sense.  What I have said is why it does - there are possible cases and all it will take is *one* teen who doesn't want to wait to be the first to die, and then our hobby is rocked to the core.  No one is shoving anything down anyone's throat - we are offering reasons why people should NOT get these spiders without prior experience.  If the OP isn't feeling as if we are forcing things on her, why do you - especially when out the other side of your mouth you are *basically* agreeing with what we are saying?
> 
> Again - bottom line - all it takes is one irresponsible death for the hammer to come down on us.


Agreed, but ah... Him* not her... lol


----------



## freedumbdclxvi (May 27, 2013)

Oops!  My bad.  Too many conversations at once.


----------



## Perentie (May 27, 2013)

freedumbdclxvi said:


> Oops!  My bad.  Too many conversations at once.


 Its fine, I just dont want that to stick


----------



## Rhodin (May 27, 2013)

freedumbdclxvi said:


> What you have done is tried to make yourself feel better by saying why you *think* it doesn't make sense.  What I have said is why it does - there are possible cases and all it will take is *one* teen who doesn't want to wait to be the first to die, and then our hobby is rocked to the core.  No one is shoving anything down anyone's throat - we are offering reasons why people should NOT get these spiders without prior experience.  If the OP isn't feeling as if we are forcing things on her, why do you - especially when out the other side of your mouth you are *basically* agreeing with what we are saying?
> 
> Again - bottom line - all it takes is one irresponsible death for the hammer to come down on us.


How is offering facts what I think? Many people have been bitten by tarantulas of the old world variety and have lived and as I said there are no recorded deaths. I also offered my opinion saying that it is ill advised to say that the average newbie should start with and highly venomous and speedy OW T but given certain circumstances I think it can be done successfully and it has. The later is my opinion and should be taken with a grain of salt but the first sentence is fact and should be taken as such.


----------



## Perentie (May 27, 2013)

Rhodin said:


> How is offering facts what I think? Many people have been bitten by tarantulas of the old world variety and have lived and as I said there are no recorded deaths. I also offered my opinion saying that it is ill advised to say that the average newbie should start with and highly venomous and speedy OW T but given certain circumstances I think it can be done successfully and it has. The later is my opinion and should be taken with a grain of salt but the first sentence is fact and should be taken as such.


 You said that they don't kill. That might be true, but it is not a fact. There is always the possibility of a death. While i am not one of the kids that would take your saying that OW ts aren't that hard to keep as fact and buy one for a first t, but I assure you those people do exist. For instance, the guest browsing this thread might. And if he were to be the first to die you can bet your life there WILL be legal restrictions put down.


----------



## Rhodin (May 27, 2013)

Perentie said:


> You said that they don't kill. That might be true, but it is not a fact. There is always the possibility of a death. While i am not one of the kids that would take your saying that OW ts aren't that hard to keep as fact and buy one for a first t, but I assure you those people do exist.


I didn't say they aren't hard to keep


----------



## Perentie (May 27, 2013)

Rhodin said:


> I didn't say they aren't hard to keep


 my mistake, you agreed with someone who did. My apologies.


----------



## Rhodin (May 27, 2013)

Perentie said:


> my mistake, you agreed with someone who did. My apologies.


"The warnings are over rated. If you are responsible, no problem." This is what he said and I agreed with.


----------



## Perentie (May 27, 2013)

Rhodin said:


> "The warnings are over rated. If you are responsible, no problem." This is what he said and I agreed with.


 essentially the same thing.


----------



## freedumbdclxvi (May 27, 2013)

Rhodin said:


> How is offering facts what I think? Many people have been bitten by tarantulas of the old world variety and have lived and as I said there are no recorded deaths. I also offered my opinion saying that it is ill advised to say that the average newbie should start with and highly venomous and speedy OW T but given certain circumstances I think it can be done successfully and it has. The later is my opinion and should be taken with a grain of salt but the first sentence is fact and should be taken as such.


Saying comparing OW T's to hot spiders doesn't make sense *isn't* fact but opinion.  Period.  I never stated they had killed but what I said - that there is anecdotal evidence children have died from such bites in Asia - is true.  What I further said - that someone *could* raise Phoneutria as a first spider - could be true given certain circumstances.  However,  I wouldn't advocate it nor try and defend it - I would outright say bad idea.  Poeci as a second or third spider?  Yeah, I can advocate that pending on husbandry and length of experience.  (Heck, I recently said I felt an OBT can be an adequate third T is bought as a sling and one knows what he/she is getting.)  However, as a first spider?  No.  It may have been done, but I am not going to say go for it.

---------- Post added 05-27-2013 at 08:08 PM ----------




Rhodin said:


> "The warnings are over rated. If you are responsible, no problem." This is what he said and I agreed with.


You agree.  Let me ask you this - how many Poecis have you raised from sling to adult?  Bred?  Seen actually act in a defensive way?  I am just curious.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Rhodin (May 27, 2013)

freedumbdclxvi said:


> Saying comparing OW T's to hot spiders doesn't make sense *isn't* fact but opinion.  Period.  I never stated they had killed but what I said - that there is anecdotal evidence children have died from such bites in Asia - is true.  What I further said - that someone *could* raise Phoneutria as a first spider - could be true given certain circumstances.  However,  I wouldn't advocate it nor try and defend it - I would outright say bad idea.  Poeci as a second or third spider?  Yeah, I can advocate that pending on husbandry and length of experience.  (Heck, I recently said I felt an OBT can be an adequate third T is bought as a sling and one knows what he/she is getting.)  However, as a first spider?  No.  It may have been done, but I am not going to say go for it.
> 
> ---------- Post added 05-27-2013 at 08:08 PM ----------
> 
> ...



I don't own any pokies, I have however dealt with other OW species that have been defensive and don't enjoy transfers or even feedings on bad days. It was part of an agreement made between me and the people I live with. I won't pretend that I have years and years of experience but I can say that I don't think that my opinion will change over the years. You really make it sound like I want people to start with OW Ts and that I did it myself. I didn't, I got 4 Ts before getting my first OW and I continue to say that I think people should take things slow whenever possible. I don't go out suggesting that people buy pokies when they ask me what to get as a first T but if someone has done hours of research and knows enough to avoid contact with the T and that it is to be treated with the utmost respect then I would be willing to say that if they only want one T as a display pet in a room then I would say it wouldn't be the worst idea in the world.

Anyway, I really am tired of repeating myself over and over and bumping this thread with the same info. Feel free to pm me if you want to argue more


----------



## freedumbdclxvi (May 27, 2013)

No, I got the answer I was curious about.  I don't need any more back and forth now.

---------- Post added 05-27-2013 at 09:33 PM ----------




Perentie said:


> ^ Thanks man
> ... Just found out I'll be missing the next repticon  looks like I'll have to wait a while...


Just noticed this.  There are a number of reputable dealers who will ship a T for you.  That will give ypu a broad range to choose from - probably a bit broader than repticon.  (Pending on who is there of course.)  

Have you decided what type of Avic you are wanting?


----------



## Perentie (May 29, 2013)

freedumbdclxvi said:


> No, I got the answer I was curious about.  I don't need any more back and forth now.
> 
> ---------- Post added 05-27-2013 at 09:33 PM ----------
> 
> ...


 Well the reason I want to go to a repticon is I would like to see the t in person... After i have the pulchripes im gonna get just a normal avic avic ( i dont feel like paying more for an animal that to me looks pretty much the same )


----------



## spiderengineer (May 29, 2013)

Perentie said:


> While I am only 13, I try to be as informed about an animal as possible. I at times feel as though I am not given respect where respect is due. As frustrating as this is I understand it. More impressionable kids might take things like what he said and go do something way out of their experience level. It is pretty annoying when people refuse to take my opinions into account only based on my age, not my knowledge. I realize there are some stupid kids my age out there, but I urge you not to look at me like that, look at me like another human being who is trying to enter this amazing hobby.


first I feel that a thirteen year old should not own T's that  are consider medically significant bites. while no one has died from a T bite. the pain you will experience is nothing to joke about. I don't know why people act like getting bit from a potent T is no big deal. (not saying you did just in general) while you might not die from the bite the effect can last for days and you may even wish you were dead if you got bit. factor in that your only thirteen you are smaller than an average adult so the effects could easily be compounded to be even worse then what others report in the bite report.

the last thing I will say about this is that no amount of research will prepare you for speed until you see it for yourself personally. everybody says some will almost teleport, but everybody has different opinion on what they consider fast is. so that is why you need experience or training wheels with Ts that may not interest you because not only will they prepare you for the speed, the defensiveness, but you will also get the knowledge of proper husbandry so you won't have to make a thread about your favorite is sick or dying. you may not find some T's interesting or worth keeping, but no one said you have to keep it forever you can easily trade them off later.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Poec54 (May 29, 2013)

spiderengineer said:


> you will also get the knowledge of proper husbandry so you won't have to make a thread about your favorite is sick or dying.


+1.  There are too many threads as it is about escaped and sick/dead T's.  

If a minor gets bit by his pet Poec, you can bet the parents will make a big commotion about it in the media.  We don't need that.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## goodyt (May 29, 2013)

Poec54 said:


> +1. If a minor gets bit by his pet Poec, you can bet the parents will make a big commotion about it in the media.  We don't need that.


Best point yet!


----------



## Poec54 (May 30, 2013)

goodyt said:


> Best point yet!


One of many.


----------



## Mario1234 (May 30, 2013)

Congrats Poec54! Your pedantic posts tends to irritate!


----------



## Poec54 (May 30, 2013)

Mario1234 said:


> Congrats Poec54! Your pedantic posts tends to irritate!


Mission accomplished.


----------



## Perentie (May 30, 2013)

Poec54 said:


> +1.  There are too many threads as it is about escaped and sick/dead T's.
> 
> If a minor gets bit by his pet Poec, you can bet the parents will make a big commotion about it in the media.  We don't need that.


 For any other minor.. My parents have learned what to do and what not to do through years of experiencing my brother and I.


----------



## spiderengineer (May 30, 2013)

Perentie said:


> For any other minor.. My parents have learned what to do and what not to do through years of experiencing my brother and I.


still does not mean a minor should own a T with a potent venom.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Storm76 (May 30, 2013)

spiderengineer said:


> still does not mean a minor should own a T with a potent venom.


I'm still surprised by the amount of minors on YT showing off H. macs and the like. For me it's just accident waiting to happen...I'm old-school in such things, sorry.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Poec54 (May 30, 2013)

Storm76 said:


> I'm still surprised by the amount of minors on YT showing off H. macs and the like. For me it's just accident waiting to happen...I'm old-school in such things, sorry.


'Old school', or common sense, which seems to be less common these days.  It's like more and more people are acting like professional wresters and pounding their chests and shouting 'I'm invincible!'

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Storm76 (May 30, 2013)

Poec54 said:


> 'Old school', or common sense, which seems to be less common these days.  It's like more and more people are acting like professional wresters and pounding their chests and shouting 'I'm invincible!'


Well, I remember Chad or Shell (if I'm not mistaken) mentioning something along the lines of "Experience in keeping T's isn't meant in terms of like owning an OW for 2 weeks having no problems and then being confident you can deal with anything" (meaning-wise, nor worldy) which is exatly why I waited to get "real thing" (meaning my C. fimbriatus and P. subfusca "lowland") nearly a year. Common sense is something amiss from quite some but oh well...everyones different and I'm not saying the way one person does something is the only way to go about it.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Poec54 (May 30, 2013)

Storm76 said:


> Well, I remember Chad or Shell (if I'm not mistaken) mentioning something along the lines of "Experience in keeping T's isn't meant in terms of like owning an OW for 2 weeks having no problems and then being confident you can deal with anything" (meaning-wise, nor worldy) which is exatly why I waited to get "real thing" (meaning my C. fimbriatus and P. subfusca "lowland") nearly a year. Common sense is something amiss from quite some.


Exactly.  I love when people say they haven't had any problems with their Poec or OBT, and then you find out it's 1".  They're experts alright.

Reactions: Like 3


----------



## Perentie (May 31, 2013)

spiderengineer said:


> still does not mean a minor should own a T with a potent venom.


Not what i was suggesting at all, I have already stated that I wont have any OW ts for a long time. I was only saying that Im proud of the fact that my parents have learned not to go spreading hype around the media.


----------



## freedumbdclxvi (May 31, 2013)

Perentie said:


> Well the reason I want to go to a repticon is I would like to see the t in person... After i have the pulchripes im gonna get just a normal avic avic ( i dont feel like paying more for an animal that to me looks pretty much the same )


Don't sell all Avics short.  Versicolor, purpurea, minitrax, diversipes and some others are unique and gorgeous.  I bet you could find one you like.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Storm76 (Jun 1, 2013)

freedumbdclxvi said:


> Don't sell all Avics short.  Versicolor, purpurea, minitrax, diversipes and some others are unique and gorgeous.  I bet you could find one you like.


Still one of the greatest NW genera in my opinion. Rewarding to keep, great looking, rather calm (with the usual exceptions *eyes my versi male*) and easy to raise. And big plus: Affordable!


----------



## Perentie (Jun 1, 2013)

freedumbdclxvi said:


> Don't sell all Avics short.  Versicolor, purpurea, minitrax, diversipes and some others are unique and gorgeous.  I bet you could find one you like.


 They just dont do anything special for me  my favorite is the A. avic


----------

