# Important Conservation Efforts...



## Tarantulaguy2001 (Aug 2, 2016)

I am wondering of it is legall to capture, tag, breed, then release wild P. Metallica tarantulas. This is for conservational efforts only. My goal is to make sure this species gets and stays off of the endangered species list. I would release them after about 10000+ are scurrying around in tanks.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## antinous (Aug 2, 2016)

It's good that you want to help their numbers out in the wild, but your plan wouldn't exactly work. I do know of someone (forgot their name) who tags A. laeta (I think) to track their movements. Where will you get the money to tag all of them? Even if you do tag a majority of them, they would be 'bogged' down by the weight of the tag itself. Not only that, but their numbers are also going down due to habitat destruction. You would have to relocate the people living there to recreate the forests that make up their natural homes and who's willing to cover those fees? Don't mean to rain on your parade at all, I'm all for conservation after all as well!


I'm really glad there are people like you who are interested in arachnid conservation!


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## Tarantulaguy2001 (Aug 2, 2016)

Phormic28 said:


> It's good that you want to help their numbers out in the wild, but your plan wouldn't exactly work. I do know of someone (forgot their name) who tags A. laeta (I think) to track their movements. Where will you get the money to tag all of them? Even if you do tag a majority of them, they would be 'bogged' down by the weight of the tag itself. Not only that, but their numbers are also going down due to habitat destruction. You would have to relocate the people living there to recreate the forests that make up their natural homes and who's willing to cover those fees? Don't mean to rain on your parade at all, I'm all for conservation after all as well!
> 
> 
> I'm really glad there are people like you who are interested in arachnid conservation!


Microscopic tags. The funding will come from charity. I will advertise through apps I am making. I will get others to join. More money, more tags, Moe ads, more charity.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## antinous (Aug 2, 2016)

Tarantulaguy2001 said:


> Microscopic tags. The funding will come from charity. I will advertise through apps I am making. I will get others to join. More money, more tags, Moe ads, more charity.


My apologies, I took it as tracking tags. What about their natural range? With it being changed into farmland/village expansion, how would you compete against that? As sad as it is to say, not many people are thrilled with the idea of spider conservation when there are larger, more popular animals out there as well. Then there comes the issue of import/export laws, which will be pretty pricey as well.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Vanessa (Aug 2, 2016)

The gene pool might be too small at this point to breed that large a number from.  You would need to introduce a larger gene pool, from WC individuals in order to get that high a number. Repopulating a species is usually done in smaller amounts with the hopes that the captive bred population eventually assimilates with the wild one without human intervention. Flooding an area with all captive bred will maintain that population for the short term, but won't be successful in long term maintaining.
Although they come from an area of the world that is very highly populated, there are some remote areas that might be successful to repopulate in. However, you would need to first ensure that repopulating those areas would not result in other species being eliminated... species that might not even be recorded yet.
Then, there is the possibility of hybrid individuals contaminating pure wild populations. That would defeat the purpose as well.
I'm not saying that you can't do it - it's not impossible and you have lots of years ahead of you to make this happen.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## beaker41 (Aug 2, 2016)

How are these tags going to survive a molt ?

Reactions: Agree 6


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## Poec54 (Aug 2, 2016)

The problem is that most forests have been cleared in India to support the huge human population.  They cut them down which kills the animals that depend on them.  Where would you release CBB Poec slings back into the wild, and how long would it before those threes are cut down?  India's not going to let people bring in spiders anyways.  The British Tarantula Society has a true passion for Poecilotheria, and they've tried for many years to promote their conservation efforts in India, and gotten little cooperation. 

There was a population of hundreds P. hanuma that was wiped out about 10 years ago when a forest was cut down in SE India.  No rescue or relocation, they don't care.  Locals usually kill them on sight anyways.  But, try to take a few out of the country for a captive breeding program, and you can get throw in jail.  It politics and bureaucrats don't care about what's best for the spiders.  The best thing India could do is plant millions of fast-growing trees, but most would probably be cut by the locals before they got up to size.  The human population is outpacing the natural resources.  That's the problem, and until that's under control, they'll keep consuming everything.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Tenevanica (Aug 2, 2016)

No way is there enough wild _Poecotheria metallica _to breed from in just the wild. The species is doomed in the wild. You could introduce captive bred individuals into the wild if you could get the permits. This sounds like a long shot though. Also, how are you going to have the time to individually feed and take care of thousands of slings by yourself? Would you hire volunteers? 

Personally, I'd start smaller. We don't know for sure how large the wild population of this species is. An estimation of the number of would individuals would be a massive help to conservation efforts. An easy Lincoln Peterson mark recapture test would be the best thing you could do IMO.

Also, I'm not normally a stickler about this, but if you're going to do this you should at least learn the correct way to write a scientific name. _Poecilotheria metallica _or Poecilotheria metallica are the correct ways to write the name. The genus name should be capitalized and the species name should be lower case. The whole name should be underlined or italicized. The binomial _P. metallica _is less formal and should be avoided in scientific writings. You're papers will look more professional if you use these rules.


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## cold blood (Aug 2, 2016)

Tarantulaguy2001 said:


> Microscopic tags. The funding will come from charity. I will advertise through apps I am making. I will get others to join. More money, more tags, Moe ads, more charity.


And as soon as the t molts, you go get the tag??

Reactions: Like 1


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## cold blood (Aug 2, 2016)

Tenevanica said:


> No way is there enough wild _Poecotheria metallica _to breed from in just the wild. The species is doomed in the wild. You could introduce captive bred individuals into the wild if you could get the permits. This sounds like a long shot though. Also, how are you going to have the time to individually feed and take care of thousands of slings by yourself? Would you hire volunteers?
> 
> Personally, I'd start smaller. We don't know for sure how large the wild population of this species is. An estimation of the number of would individuals would be a massive help to conservation efforts. An easy Lincoln Peterson mark recapture test would be the best thing you could do IMO.
> 
> Also, I'm not normally a stickler about this, but if you're going to do this you should at least learn the correct way to write a scientific name. _Poecilotheria metallica _or Poecilotheria metallica are the correct ways to write the name. The genus name should be capitalized and the species name should be lower case. The whole name should be underlined or italicized. The binomial _P. metallica _is less formal and should be avoided in scientific writings. You're papers will look more professional if you use these rules.


Actually only the species is in italics.  Poecilotheria _metallica_.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Disagree 1 | Lollipop 1


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## Tenevanica (Aug 2, 2016)

cold blood said:


> Actually only the species is in italics.  Poecilotheria _metallica_.


I don't think that's correct. Here's two random studies that use scientific names: (Their content has no significance, they're just the first ones I could pull up on my computer.)

http://titag.org/2015/2015papers/palmercaptiverearing.pdf

http://www.academia.edu/7243261/Cou...on_of_the_Pronotum_in_Lucihormetica_verrucosa

Notice that both the genus and species is italicized. Both the genus and species being italicized is also what I've been taught in my biology classes since high school.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## viper69 (Aug 3, 2016)

Guys, scientific names, Genus + species for example: both are italicized in scientific primary literature.

http://blog.vancouvereditor.com/2011/03/science-writing-and-editing-scientific.html

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 3


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## jiacovazzi (Aug 3, 2016)

cold blood said:


> Actually only the species is in italics.  Poecilotheria _metallica_.


Not correct. In universities all over the US, genus and species are italicized 
http://abacus.bates.edu/~ganderso/biology/resources/writing/HTWlatin.html

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Tenevanica (Aug 3, 2016)

viper69 said:


> Guys, scientific names, Genus + species for example: both are italicized in scientific primary literature.
> 
> http://blog.vancouvereditor.com/2011/03/science-writing-and-editing-scientific.html


I'm not crazy then?  I thought that was the case. @cold blood made me pause there for a second though...

Reactions: Like 1


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## jiacovazzi (Aug 3, 2016)

Tenevanica said:


> I'm not crazy then?  I thought that was the case. @cold blood made me pause there for a second though...


No you're correct. Reading a scientific journal or two can go a long way for some people.

Reactions: Dislike 1 | Agree 1


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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 3, 2016)

cold blood said:


> Actually only the species is in italics.  Poecilotheria _metallica_.


Nope my man 

_Poecilotheria metallica <--- _this is correct

not Poecilotheria _metallica_, _Poecilotheria _metallica, poecilotheria Metallica, Poecilotheria Metallica or what else

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 3, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> The problem is that most forests have been cleared in India to support the huge human population.


Or to support mere speculation business, like happens in Southern Italy. Lot of woods burned down on purpose, for build brand new 'Mafia/Politicians connected' Hotels and what else.


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## Vanessa (Aug 3, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> The human population is outpacing the natural resources.  That's the problem, and until that's under control, they'll keep consuming everything.


Don't you mean until *we're* under control, *we'll* keep consuming everything?
The number one cause of deforestation and loss of wildlife in all the Americas is the clearing of trees to farm livestock animals on the cleared land. It is happening in South America, it is happening in the U.S., and it is happening in Canada.
Bison, wild horses, wolves, cougar, lynx, and countless other species are at risk, or even gone, from some areas to free them up for livestock and livestock farms and wildlife are constantly being subjected to wholesale slaughter due to predators presenting a risk to young livestock animals.
If you contribute to the raising of livestock, you are contributing to the loss of wildlife - regardless of where you live in the world.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## jiacovazzi (Aug 3, 2016)

VanessaS said:


> Don't you mean until *we're* under control, *we'll* keep consuming everything?
> The number one cause of deforestation and loss of wildlife in all the Americas is the clearing of trees to farm livestock animals on the cleared land. It is happening in South America, it is happening in the U.S., and it is happening in Canada.
> Bison, wild horses, wolves, cougar, lynx, and countless other species are at risk, or even gone, from some areas to free them up for livestock and livestock farms and wildlife are constantly being subjected to wholesale slaughter due to predators presenting a risk to young livestock animals.
> If you contribute to the raising of livestock, you are contributing to the loss of wildlife - regardless of where you live in the world.


Exactly, assuming he is a part of the human population.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Toxoderidae (Aug 3, 2016)

jiacovazzi said:


> Exactly, assuming he is a part of the human population.


I am part of the terrestrial crab population. I can be found at beaches near sunset, coming out my burrow to attack people and scavenge the beach.

Reactions: Like 4 | Funny 1


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## cold blood (Aug 3, 2016)

viper69 said:


> Guys, scientific names, Genus + species for example: both are italicized in scientific primary literature.
> 
> http://blog.vancouvereditor.com/2011/03/science-writing-and-editing-scientific.html


Thanks viper, I stand corrected.

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 2


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## Tarantulaguy2001 (Aug 3, 2016)

beaker41 said:


> How are these tags going to survive a molt ?


They will be injected.
If you would like to join, reply. We need as many people as possible to vote against and sue the deforesters. Reply via email at firealarmdude01@gmail.com


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## Tarantulaguy2001 (Aug 3, 2016)

Phormic28 said:


> My apologies, I took it as tracking tags. What about their natural range? With it being changed into farmland/village expansion, how would you compete against that? As sad as it is to say, not many people are thrilled with the idea of spider conservation when there are larger, more popular animals out there as well. Then there comes the issue of import/export laws, which will be pretty pricey as well.


We need people to join so we can come together and stand against, and even sue if we have to, these nasty deforesters. We need a organization who is willing to reforest the native habitat of the species. If you want to join us, contact me via Email at:
firealarmdude01@gmail.com


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## Tarantulaguy2001 (Aug 3, 2016)

cold blood said:


> And as soon as the t molts, you go get the tag??


The tags need to be injected (carefully!) into the abdomen or any area away from vital organs. We need an aracneaologist for that. The anatomy is important and I don't want to have an amateur to inject it incorrectly, so if you know a professional to join. If you want to join or contact me, email me at:
firealarmdude01@gmail.com


beaker41 said:


> How are these tags going to survive a molt ?


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## Tarantulaguy2001 (Aug 3, 2016)

Tenevanica said:


> No way is there enough wild _Poecotheria metallica _to breed from in just the wild. The species is doomed in the wild. You could introduce captive bred individuals into the wild if you could get the permits. This sounds like a long shot though. Also, how are you going to have the time to individually feed and take care of thousands of slings by yourself? Would you hire volunteers?
> 
> Personally, I'd start smaller. We don't know for sure how large the wild population of this species is. An estimation of the number of would individuals would be a massive help to conservation efforts. An easy Lincoln Peterson mark recapture test would be the best thing you could do IMO.
> 
> Also, I'm not normally a stickler about this, but if you're going to do this you should at least learn the correct way to write a scientific name. _Poecilotheria metallica _or Poecilotheria metallica are the correct ways to write the name. The genus name should be capitalized and the species name should be lower case. The whole name should be underlined or italicized. The binomial _P. metallica _is less formal and should be avoided in scientific writings. You're papers will look more professional if you use these rules.


I am using a phone. I cannot italicize. Don't judge me . Anyway, we need as much people as possible to join. We need enough supporters to either file a lawsuit, or sue if we have to. Deforesting these natural habitats should be against the law. Help stop this by joining me at:
firealarmdude01@gmail.com
This is via email by the way.


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## Vanessa (Aug 3, 2016)

And people thought taking on PetCo was a tough one.

Reactions: Agree 3 | Funny 2


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## Tarantulaguy2001 (Aug 3, 2016)

VanessaS said:


> And people thought taking on PetCo was a tough one.


Petco actually used to sell tarantulas! To reply, join or contact me, email me at:
firealarmdude01@gmail.com


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## EulersK (Aug 3, 2016)

@Tarantulaguy2001 

I'm not interested in getting into the debate and discussion of conservation, but may I suggest a more professional and relevant email address? No offense, but that email doesn't scream "dedicated conservationist", especially when you consider that new email accounts are absolutely free.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3 | Award 1


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## Tarantulaguy2001 (Aug 3, 2016)

EulersK said:


> @Tarantulaguy2001
> 
> I'm not interested in getting into the debate and discussion of conservation, but may I suggest a more professional and relevant email address? No offense, but that email doesn't scream "dedicated conservationist", especially when you consider that new email accounts are absolutely free.


I know. I am trying to make an email address for this. Any good name ideas? Suggest some!! I am out of ideas.


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## Tenevanica (Aug 3, 2016)

Tarantulaguy2001 said:


> I am using a phone. I cannot italicize. Don't judge me . Anyway, we need as much people as possible to join. We need enough supporters to either file a lawsuit, or sue if we have to. Deforesting these natural habitats should be against the law. Help stop this by joining me at:
> firealarmdude01@gmail.com
> This is via email by the way.


You can italicize on a phone, I do it all the time.  Don't worry too much about it, but in any official writings you should write the names properly. 

What are we going to sue for? Who are we going to sue? The Indian government? The logging company? There was no personal damage done to you. I'm not a lawyer, but even I can tell you we don't have grounds to sue. The people deforesting the habitats didn't break any laws, and you're unlikely to find anyone outside of the tarantula hobby that would be very sympathetic to this cause. Hell, I know a few people that would love to see more spider species going extinct. They'd start petitions to kill them off! It's sad, but there isn't much hope for this cause using this method.

Reactions: Agree 5


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## cold blood (Aug 3, 2016)

Tarantulaguy2001 said:


> The tags need to be injected (carefully!) into the abdomen or any area away from vital organs. We need an aracneaologist for that.


Interesting, I wasn't aware that was even possible.  Is this a proven tagging technique for spiders?


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## Vanessa (Aug 3, 2016)

Tarantulaguy2001 said:


> Petco actually used to sell tarantulas!


Unfortunately, PetCo still does sell tarantulas.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## antinous (Aug 3, 2016)

Tarantulaguy2001 said:


> I am using a phone. I cannot italicize. Don't judge me . Anyway, we need as much people as possible to join. We need enough supporters to either file a lawsuit, or sue if we have to. Deforesting these natural habitats should be against the law. Help stop this by joining me at:
> firealarmdude01@gmail.com
> This is via email by the way.


Suing people for 'deforesting natural habitats' wouldn't work out to well (not that it's even possible there). But under that rule shouldn't we all be breaking the law? One way or another we're all connected to destruction of natural habitats. Don't mean to be a Debbie downer, but you won't be getting anywhere. If you want to help make a difference, and if you're still interested in it by the time you're getting ready to go to college, go for a conservation biology/ecology/zoology major.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## antinous (Aug 3, 2016)

cold blood said:


> Interesting, I wasn't aware that was even possible.  Is this a proven tagging technique for spiders?


Nope.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Tenevanica (Aug 3, 2016)

@Tarantulaguy2001 I'm telling you, your best bet is to fund a Lincoln Peterson index of the wild population. If you can gather the funds, (and I'll happily contribute) I'm sure you can find an entomologist or arachnologist with the permits to run the study. An estimation of the wild population size is something we desperately need if we're going to do anything involving saving this species in the future.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Tenevanica (Aug 3, 2016)

Phormic28 said:


> If you want to help make a difference, and if you're still interested in it by the time you're getting ready to go to college, go for a conservation biology/ecology/zoology major.


I +1 this, the world needs more entomologists.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## antinous (Aug 3, 2016)

Tenevanica said:


> I +1 this, the world needs more entomologists.


It's pretty hard to find a good program that offers a arachnology focus (I'm a senior majoring in fish & wildlife conservation).


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## antinous (Aug 3, 2016)

Tarantulaguy2001 said:


> We need people to join so we can come together and stand against, and even sue if we have to, these nasty deforesters. We need a organization who is willing to reforest the native habitat of the species. If you want to join us, contact me via Email at:
> firealarmdude01@gmail.com


And let me just add, they are not all 'nasty deforesters'. Sure there are some people that are illegal loggers, but others are just trying to provide for their families. We all would be doing the same if the area we live in currently wasn't already cleared away. You're not going to be able to reforest a native habitat while there are people living there still. You're going to need millions of dollars for relocation fees at least, and then comes the question of where are the people going to go? I'm not against conservation, hell that's what I'm majoring in, but you have to be logical with these things. Take your drive/love of conservation and focus them in a more plausible area.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Tenevanica (Aug 3, 2016)

Phormic28 said:


> It's pretty hard to find a good program that offers a arachnology focus (I'm a senior majoring in fish & wildlife conservation).


I'm a junior majoring in biology with a focus in entomology. There are very few true arachnolgists. Most people who study arachnids would describe themselves as "entomologists who study arachnids" and nearly all of them have entomology degrees. There are a lot of great entomology programs, as it is a very important field.


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## antinous (Aug 3, 2016)

Tenevanica said:


> I'm a junior majoring in biology with a focus in entomology. There are very few true arachnolgists. Most people who study arachnids would describe themselves as "entomologists who study arachnids" and nearly all of them have entomology degrees. There are a lot of great entomology programs, as it is a very important field.


There are, but not many are geared towards the study of spiders. I mean it's very possible to do it, but it requires a larger effort on the part of the student. Off topic, but where do you go to school if I may ask?


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## Tenevanica (Aug 3, 2016)

Phormic28 said:


> There are, but not many are geared towards the study of spiders. I mean it's very possible to do it, but it requires a larger effort on the part of the student. Off topic, but where do you go to school if I may ask?


University of Colorado Boulder

Reactions: Like 1


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## antinous (Aug 3, 2016)

Tenevanica said:


> University of Colorado Boulder


Sweet, I actually have some friends going there (or used to?) for biology/animal science related things haha. /sorry for the hijack

Reactions: Like 2


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## Tenevanica (Aug 3, 2016)

Phormic28 said:


> Sweet, I actually have some friends going there (or used to?) for biology/animal science related things haha. /sorry for the hijack


No problem.  I'm happy to share, and I know the mods won't mind an off topic post or two as long as we keep going in generally the right direction.


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## Tarantulaguy2001 (Aug 3, 2016)

Phormic28 said:


> And let me just add, they are not all 'nasty deforesters'. Sure there are some people that are illegal loggers, but others are just trying to provide for their families. We all would be doing the same if the area we live in currently wasn't already cleared away. You're not going to be able to reforest a native habitat while there are people living there still. You're going to need millions of dollars for relocation fees at least, and then comes the question of where are the people going to go? I'm not against conservation, hell that's what I'm majoring in, but you have to be logical with these things. Take your drive/love of conservation and focus them in a more plausible area.


Like what, relocating the tarantulas? Sounds like a good idea, but that would take a long time. Plus, we would need to search for an area with the PERFECT conditions for them, otherwise they wouldn't survive. If you have suggestions, reply asap. We may even need to discuss this matter on my email account if necessary .  I do like the idea of relocating the tarantulas, though. Btw it's ok I know how you feel. I'm honestly very frustrated that this stuff happened in the first place.


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## Tarantulaguy2001 (Aug 3, 2016)

Tenevanica said:


> I'm a junior majoring in biology with a focus in entomology. There are very few true arachnolgists. Most people who study arachnids would describe themselves as "entomologists who study arachnids" and nearly all of them have entomology degrees. There are a lot of great entomology programs, as it is a very important field.


That's good! Its ok to know this stuff, just now is the time we need the professionals who know this like you. You are welcome to join. You already know where my email link is.


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## antinous (Aug 3, 2016)

Tarantulaguy2001 said:


> Like what, relocating the tarantulas? Sounds like a good idea, but that would take a long time. Plus, we would need to search for an area with the PERFECT conditions for them, otherwise they wouldn't survive. If you have suggestions, reply asap. We may even need to discuss this matter on my email account if necessary .  I do like the idea of relocating the tarantulas, though. Btw it's ok I know how you feel. I'm honestly very frustrated that this stuff happened in the first place.


Relocating the tarantulas would be a no-go either. If they're not doing well in their home range, moving them to a new, foreign area (where they're considered invasive) would be even worse. Listen, unless you have millions of dollars (and even then it's highly unlikely it'll work), it's not going to happen. The best we can do is build up a healthy population in captivity so they don't go extinct forever.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Tarantulaguy2001 (Aug 3, 2016)

Tenevanica said:


> No problem.  I'm happy to share, and I know the mods won't mind an off topic post or two as long as we keep going in generally the right direction.


I don't mind, as  long as it helps.


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## Tarantulaguy2001 (Aug 3, 2016)

Phormic28 said:


> Relocating the tarantulas would be a no-go either. If they're not doing well in their home range, moving them to a new, foreign area (where they're considered invasive) would be even worse. Listen, unless you have millions of dollars (and even then it's highly unlikely it'll work), it's not going to happen. The best we can do is build up a healthy population in captivity so they don't go extinct forever.


I don't have to be ritch. You just have to have a ton of supporters. Btw I did not mean to be rude I wish I could express feeling. I did not mean to upset you in any ways whatsoever.


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## antinous (Aug 3, 2016)

Tarantulaguy2001 said:


> I don't have to be ritch. You just have to have a ton of supporters. Btw I did not mean to be rude I wish I could express feeling. I did not mean to upset you in any ways whatsoever.


You don't have to be rich, but it would help speed the EXTRAORDINARILY slow process of what you wish to do (even if it was plausible). These things don't happen like that, permits are needed, and that can take months, even years. Supporters can't work magic, no matter how much money they donate. You're not being rude, I'm just trying to give you a realistic opinion.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## EulersK (Aug 3, 2016)

And here I said that I was going to stay out of it 

I'm going to be frank here. Spending all of that money and time on relocating/conserving bugs is a massive waste of resources. I love tarantulas and I love this hobby, but we need to be realistic here. You're talking about spending millions on _bugs_. Not even in research - just in conservation. You don't think that money could be spend better elsewhere? Maybe we need to address the population crisis before worrying about a bunch of spiders.

And now I stand with arms open ready for the flames

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Tarantulaguy2001 (Aug 3, 2016)

Phormic28 said:


> Relocating the tarantulas would be a no-go either. If they're not doing well in their home range, moving them to a new, foreign area (where they're considered invasive) would be even worse. Listen, unless you have millions of dollars (and even then it's highly unlikely it'll work), it's not going to happen. The best we can do is build up a healthy population in captivity so they don't go extinct forever.


It would be nice if we could stop deforestation. Logging is not cool in native habitats where endangered species live. I totally agree with you, but I disagree at the same times. I get what you are saying. I am doing my best at what is right. I hope you can find it in your heart (not to be mean) to reason optimistically. U am trying to be optimistic because my depression is pretty annoying and it makes me a pessimist. Please try optimisim too, I mean, there is a better good outcome in this sort of thing.


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## Tarantulaguy2001 (Aug 3, 2016)

Phormic28 said:


> You don't have to be rich, but it would help speed the EXTRAORDINARILY slow process of what you wish to do (even if it was plausible). These things don't happen like that, permits are needed, and that can take months, even years. Supporters can't work magic, no matter how much money they donate. You're not being rude, I'm just trying to give you a realistic opinion.


I know the reality. I'm telling the benefits. I am trying my best to make my ( and other people's) dreams come true.


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## Tarantulaguy2001 (Aug 3, 2016)

Tarantulaguy2001 said:


> It would be nice if we could stop deforestation. Logging is not cool in native habitats where endangered species live. I totally agree with you, but I disagree at the same times. I get what you are saying. I am doing my best at what is right. I hope you can find it in your heart (not to be mean) to reason optimistically. U am trying to be optimistic because my depression is pretty annoying and it makes me a pessimist. Please try optimisim too, I mean, there is a better good outcome in this sort of thing.


I am not u am sorry :/


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## antinous (Aug 3, 2016)

Tarantulaguy2001 said:


> It would be nice if we could stop deforestation. Logging is not cool in native habitats where endangered species live. I totally agree with you, but I disagree at the same times. I get what you are saying. I am doing my best at what is right. I hope you can find it in your heart (not to be mean) to reason optimistically. U am trying to be optimistic because my depression is pretty annoying and it makes me a pessimist. Please try optimisim too, I mean, there is a better good outcome in this sort of thing.


It's not possible. Especially not in India, there's too many people. I am optimistic, hence why I'm working in the field, but there isn't a happy outcome for _P. metallica_ in the wild.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Award 1


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## EulersK (Aug 3, 2016)

Tarantulaguy2001 said:


> It would be nice if we could stop deforestation. Logging is not cool in native habitats where endangered species live. I totally agree with you, but I disagree at the same times. I get what you are saying. I am doing my best at what is right. I hope you can find it in your heart (not to be mean) to reason optimistically. U am trying to be optimistic because my depression is pretty annoying and it makes me a pessimist. Please try optimisim too, I mean, there is a better good outcome in this sort of thing.


Unfortunately, optimism doesn't always translate to realism.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## antinous (Aug 3, 2016)

When working in the conservation field, expect to have the majority of things not go the way you want. It's sad, it really is, but it's what it is. Why spend so much money on an animal when you know that they're doomed in wild when you can spend that money on another species that is more likely to prosper with our help?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Tarantulaguy2001 (Aug 3, 2016)

Phormic28 said:


> It's not possible. Especially not in India, there's too many people. I am optimistic, hence why I'm working in the field, but there isn't a happy outcome for _P. metallica_ in the wild.


Why be so... Um... Not optimistic? I am hopeful that these dudes will make it. I'm pretty sure they will. We just have to get off our heinies and try! If we do not try, YeS they will SURELY go extinct. So please help me out. My dreams don't need to die until p. Metallica dies.


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## Tarantulaguy2001 (Aug 3, 2016)

Phormic28 said:


> When working in the conservation field, expect to have the majority of things not go the way you want. It's sad, it really is, but it's what it is. Why spend so much money on an animal when you know that they're doomed in wild when you can spend that money on another species that is more likely to prosper with our help?


They will not die unless we do not get off our you-know-what's and actually try to save them. My dreams will not die unless all the p. Metallicas die.


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## antinous (Aug 3, 2016)

Tarantulaguy2001 said:


> Why be so... Um... Not optimistic? I am hopeful that these dudes will make it. I'm pretty sure they will. We just have to get off our heinies and try! If we do not try, YeS they will SURELY go extinct. So please help me out. My dreams don't need to die until p. Metallica dies.


I'm not being pessimistic if that's what you mean, I'm being realistic. I know how upset you are, trust me, I'm just being realistic.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Tenevanica (Aug 3, 2016)

Phormic28 said:


> It's not possible. Especially not in India, there's too many people. I am optimistic, hence why I'm working in the field, but there isn't a happy outcome for _P. metallica_ in the wild.


I hate to agree with this post, but it's true. _P. metallica _is doomed to go extinct in the wild. That's why breeding this species is of the upmost importance.

I've said it three times now, and I don't want to come off as nagging, but I think the best course of action is to find a simple population count. A Lincoln Peterson, what I've been referring to, is a simple way to get an estimate of the number of individuals of a species in a particular area. We can get an idea of how many _P. metallica _are left, and that's an important thing to know before we even think of saving the wild population.

I'll join the email group, but not to support the original idea. Funding a simple mark recapture experiment is a reasonable goal. Saving the wild population is not.

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 1


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## Hellblazer (Aug 3, 2016)

This kind of seemed like a troll thread to me the whole time. Especially when I saw the "firealarmdude" email address. I apologize to the OP if I'm wrong.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Tarantulaguy2001 (Aug 3, 2016)

Phormic28 said:


> I'm not being pessimistic if that's what you mean, I'm being realistic. I know how upset you are, trust me, I'm just being realistic.


Ok, if that's how you feel, fine. All I am saying is, why don't we give the little dudes and dudettes another chance? A second chance might be the last one we have. C'mon , just give them 1 more try at this. I don't want you all to think that we failed, because we have not until they go extinct. If we do this, at least everyone (the Metallica species as well) would at least know we tried our best. Plus, the little dude's and dudettes would die knowing we tried. If we don't, they will die off feeling uncared for. So you in, you gonna help, or not?


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## Tarantulaguy2001 (Aug 3, 2016)

Tenevanica said:


> I hate to agree with this post, but it's true. _P. metallica _is doomed to go extinct in the wild. That's why breeding this species is of the upmost importance.
> 
> I've said it three times now, and I don't want to come off as nagging, but I think the best course of action is to find a simple population count. A Lincoln Peterson, what I've been referring to, is a simple way to get an estimate of the number of individuals of a species in a particular area. We can get an idea of how many _P. metallica _are left, and that's an important thing to know before we even think of saving the wild population.
> 
> I'll join the email group, but not to support the original idea. Funding a simple mark recapture experiment is a reasonable goal. Saving the wild population is not.


Good. We need help getting these dudes as much support and help as possible.
Thanks, 
Sterling Ordes.


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## Tarantulaguy2001 (Aug 3, 2016)

Hellblazer said:


> This kind of seemed like a troll thread to me the whole time. Especially when I saw the "firealarmdude" email address. I apologize to the OP if I'm wrong.


Hey it's ok this isn't a troll thread lol I forgot to add you... What is your email?? I need to add you. Firealarmdude01 is my fire alarm email. I will create a P.Metallica support email as soon as possible.


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## EulersK (Aug 3, 2016)

Tarantulaguy2001 said:


> Ok, if that's how you feel, fine. All I am saying is, why don't we give the little dudes and dudettes another chance? A second chance might be the last one we have. C'mon , just give them 1 more try at this. I don't want you all to think that we failed, because we have not until they go extinct. If we do this, at least everyone (the Metallica species as well) would at least know we tried our best. Plus, the little dude's and dudettes would die knowing we tried. If we don't, they will die off feeling uncared for. So you in, you gonna help, or not?


"Dudettes"? That email address? The spiders dying knowing that we tried?

You have a good heart. Really. But do some research in real conservation. And spider biology and cognitive ability while you're at it. Throwing money at a situation has never solved anything.

Reactions: Agree 4


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## Hellblazer (Aug 3, 2016)

Tarantulaguy2001 said:


> Hey it's ok this isn't a troll thread lol I forgot to add you... What is your email?? I need to add you. Firealarmdude01 is my fire alarm email. I will create a P.Metallica support email as soon as possible.


No thanks

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Tarantulaguy2001 (Aug 3, 2016)

EulersK said:


> "Dudettes"? That email address? The spiders dying knowing that we tried?
> 
> You have a good heart. Really. But do some research in real conservation. Throwing money at a situation has never solved anything.


What if it does? What if your support, along with others and mine, actually worked? Would this be the first time? Not the first among those who failed at trying this, but have tried it and SUCCEEDED. That, my friend, is called being true. My aim is true. Is yours?


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## Tarantulaguy2001 (Aug 3, 2016)

Hellblazer said:


> No thanks


That is ok. If you can, save my email. It is a temporary one. I Will release the real one in a day or two.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## antinous (Aug 3, 2016)

Tarantulaguy2001 said:


> What if it does? What if your support, along with others and mine, actually worked? Would this be the first time? Not the first among those who failed at trying this, but have tried it and SUCCEEDED. That, my friend, is called being true. My aim is true. Is yours?


There are many other animal species that we can actually help that need the funding. That's pretty much all I have to say on this subject.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Tenevanica (Aug 3, 2016)

Tarantulaguy2001 said:


> My aim is true. Is yours?


Some version of that was the tag line for every cult I've ever come across...

Jokes aside, this isn't about "truth." This is about being realistic. We aren't going to help the species by throwing our cash at a fantasy.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Tarantulaguy2001 (Aug 3, 2016)

Phormic28 said:


> There are many other animal species that we can actually help that need the funding. That's pretty much all I have to say on this subject.


What if we save this one first? It surely wouldn't kill you to try.


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## Tarantulaguy2001 (Aug 3, 2016)

Tenevanica said:


> Some version of that was the tag line for every cult I've ever come across...
> 
> Jokes aside, this isn't about "truth." This is about being realistic. We aren't going to help the species by throwing our cash at a fantasy.


Fantasy? This is a real life situation. And if you think that way, you are sure to get that outcome. Think positive, and I'm telling you, this will work. If it doesnt, the jokes on me. I am just saying, if we don't really try, we are going to fail. Epicly. Plus, p. Metallica enthusiasts would be enraged to find out that we never even tried. What's the point of a dream if you don't try to achieve it???


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## Tenevanica (Aug 3, 2016)

Tarantulaguy2001 said:


> What if we save this one first? It surely wouldn't kill you to try.


You know how you can save this species? Stay in the hobby, promote the hobby, and start breeding. While this species will surely be forced or of the wild in less than 10 years, it can survive forever in the hobby. I don't know how much experience E you have with Ts, but if you think you're ready you can make a difference by breeding. Keep the species alive in captivity. Distribute the young. Promote tarantula keeping.

There are plenty of animals that survive only the collections of hobbyists. _P. metallica _is destined to become one of those species. It's important we welcome it in out hobby. We are the only hope for the species.

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## EulersK (Aug 3, 2016)

Tarantulaguy2001 said:


> Fantasy? This is a real life situation. And if you think that way, you are sure to get that outcome. Think positive, and I'm telling you, this will work. If it doesnt, the jokes on me. I am just saying, if we don't really try, we are going to fail. Epicly. Plus, p. Metallica enthusiasts would be enraged to find out that we never even tried. What's the point of a dream if you don't try to achieve it???


Where do you think you are? You're talking to pokie enthusiasts. Literally right now. 

And no, joke wouldn't be on you. It would be on those that donated time and money.


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## Tarantulaguy2001 (Aug 3, 2016)

Let's not let our poor p. Metallicas dreams die, am I right?

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Tarantulaguy2001 (Aug 3, 2016)

EulersK said:


> Where do you think you are? You're talking to pokie enthusiasts. Literally right now.
> 
> And no, joke wouldn't be on you. It would be on those that donated time and money.


That is my point. Plus, you are talking to a 14 year old in Colorado. Don't kill our dreams. I have been raising t's since I was 5.


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## Tarantulaguy2001 (Aug 3, 2016)

Tenevanica said:


> You know how you can save this species? Stay in the hobby, promote the hobby, and start breeding. While this species will surely be forced or of the wild in less than 10 years, it can survive forever in the hobby. I don't know how much experience E you have with Ts, but if you think you're ready you can make a difference by breeding. Keep the species alive in captivity. Distribute the young. Promote tarantula keeping.
> 
> There are plenty of animals that survive only the collections of hobbyists. _P. metallica _is destined to become one of those species. It's important we welcome it in out hobby. We are the only hope for the species.


Fine. Think like that. Kill off my and others dreams. This is useless. You are against this, aren't you? Yeah, you are. Just please look at another, better point of view.

Reactions: Disagree 2


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## EulersK (Aug 3, 2016)

Tarantulaguy2001 said:


> That is my point. Plus, you are talking to a 14 year old in Colorado. Don't kill our dreams. I have been raising t's since I was 5.


You're 14? And you want to lead a multi-million dollar conservation effort? 

Look. You've got people literally in the conservation field in this thread right now. Instead of going on and on about dreams, learn from them. There is some great advice on here that has been blatantly ignored.

Reactions: Agree 4 | Funny 1


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## Tarantulaguy2001 (Aug 3, 2016)

EulersK said:


> You're 14? And you want to lead a multi-million dollar conservation effort?
> 
> Look. You've got people literally in the conservation field in this thread right now. Instead of going on and on about dreams, learn from them. There is some great advice on here that has been blatantly ignored.


Is everyone here pessimistic? I'm pretty sure.

Reactions: Disagree 3


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## EulersK (Aug 3, 2016)

Tarantulaguy2001 said:


> Is everyone here pessimistic? I'm pretty sure.


I truly do hope that you mature into a true conservationist. We don't have enough of those. You have a great heart, clearly, but you won't make it far with this close minded behavior.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Tarantulaguy2001 (Aug 3, 2016)

EulersK said:


> You're 14? And you want to lead a multi-million dollar conservation effort?
> 
> Look. You've got people literally in the conservation field in this thread right now. Instead of going on and on about dreams, learn from them. There is some great advice on here that has been blatantly ignored.


Oh, and yes, I am going to spend a lit of $ and in this. I will not die until they do. If they do, all the money goes back to the donators and supporters. The joke will be on us.


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## Tarantulaguy2001 (Aug 3, 2016)

EulersK said:


> I truly do hope that you mature into a true conservationist. We don't have enough of those. You have a great heart, clearly, but you won't make it far with this close minded behavior.


I am matured. I am in early college. Plus, I  thank you for the compliment. I agree. This might be worthless. It is worth a try, though.


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## Coconana (Aug 3, 2016)

Tarantulaguy2001 said:


> Is everyone here pessimistic? I'm pretty sure.


There is a marked difference between pessimism and realism. You have _nowhere_ to throw any money you may have when it comes to 'saving the species'. We understand your passion --that's what unites every hobbyist here--but you did not come to this thread with realistic expectations. You came with 'dreams', and ideas, which, while respectable, is not enough to accomplish what it is that you want.

Calling the choir you're preaching to 'pessimistic' is counterproductive; many of us are already contributing to the current captive population by breeding and promoting the species, given that is is likely to be extinct in the wild in twenty, thirty years. I recommend you join the effort (_as we can see that you do care very much_) by listening to some of these members here, especially given that there were some very thoughtful and informative posts in this thread.

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## Tenevanica (Aug 3, 2016)

Tarantulaguy2001 said:


> I am matured. I am in early college. Plus, I  thank you for the compliment. I agree. This might be worthless. It is worth a try, though.


I took community college classes at age 14 as well. Perhaps you have more in common with me than we thought. However, it doesn't appear that you're very "matured" at all. There are people on this thread that are experts in the fields your project needs. We took what you read, looked at the logistics at it, and realized it's not going to happen. We offered you advice for more realistic things you could do to help the species. A "matured" person would take our advice and opinions and use them to help themselves. Instead, you decided to call us pessimists, and accuse us of crushing your "dreams." You don't seem very mature at all. We're not being pessimists. We're being real. I promise you, not a single person on this board wants _P. metallica _to go extinct. We just realize that your plan to repopulate their dying habitat is not the way to go.

I already said I'd join your email group. I love that you want to take a stand to help pokies. I'd help fund a reasonable project that would help the species. If you can find an entomologist willing to run the experiment, and write out a plan for funds, I'd help fund a Lincoln Peterson or similar test. If you want to start breeding _P. metallica_ I'd lend you some funds to find a female. I will not however help you with a million dollar project that is very unlikely to succeed.

You're trying to do something that large organizations with lots of money have failed to do for animals like red pandas. You're "dreams" are not a reality, at least not right now.

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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 3, 2016)

Mah. There's plenty of genus _Poecilotheria _go figure _Poecilotheria metallica_. Let's embark together in a journey (enter now those kind of RPG a la "Suikoden" game opening epic music) for spread the _Verb _and save the true _Theraphosidae _that deserves our help, the noble *Goddess *0.1 _Pelinobius muticus _I say._
_
It's only a matter of 0.1 _Pelinobius muticus_, all the other _Theraphosidae _are chained to the *Goddess*, therefore:
- Save the *Goddess*, Save the _Theraphosidae_. And Save yourself.

Reactions: Like 2


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## BobBarley (Aug 3, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> Mah. There's plenty of genus _Poecilotheria _go figure _Poecilotheria metallica_. Let's embark together in a journey (enter now those kind of RPG a la "Suikoden" game opening epic music) for spread the _Verb _and save the true _Theraphosidae _that deserves our help, the noble *Goddess *0.1 _Pelinobius muticus _I say.
> 
> It's only a matter of 0.1 _Pelinobius muticus_, all the other _Theraphosidae _are chained to the *Goddess*, therefore:
> - Save the *Goddess*, Save the _Theraphosidae_. And Save yourself.


I wonder if the *Goddess*'s species is in danger of extinction...

Reactions: Love 1


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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 3, 2016)

For instance, no one is warm hearted enough to think for a minute, and a minute only, how much, how many 0.1 *Goddess *_Pelinobius_ _muticus _suffered in Uganda, when Idi Amin was in charge? I'm the only one?

We need to know the exact number, as well for a true expedition for discovering, once and for all, the *Goddess *Brother, the true "Missing Link"... yes I'm talking about _Citharischius stridulantissimus. _Pay no attention to speculations, for that the *Goddess *Brother exists... he's living under in his burrow, waiting like Cthulhu. He only wants to be reunited with his sister, the *Goddess *:-/

Then and only then the 0.1 *Goddess *_Pelinobius muticus_ Reign will come and Roma will rise again, leaded by a new Papacy :-s

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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 3, 2016)

BobBarley said:


> I wonder if the *Goddess*'s species is in danger of extinction...


0.1 *Goddess *_Pelinobius muticus_ is 24/7 in danger. Nobility had always powerful enemies, and the *Goddess *is pure Nobility.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Toxoderidae (Aug 3, 2016)

Time to dip my voice in. 

You've got a good heart man, I'm 13, and _Poecilotheria _is my favorite genus. I love them with a burning passion, and my quest is to own every pokie species (which I am 5 away from my quest) but lets be honest and frank.

Unless a massive PLAGUE wipes out a chunk of India's population, _Poecilotheria_ as a genus is doomed, especially _Poecilotheria metallica._ The reason? They all (except _regalis, striata, _and _fasciata,_) have incredibly small ranges, with _metallica_'s range at its peak being around 1KM. We are all that can save and protect this genus of tarantula, as they are damn near extinct in the wild. This isn't pessimism, this is realism.

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## Poec54 (Aug 3, 2016)

Tarantulaguy2001 said:


> Is everyone here pessimistic? I'm pretty sure.



It's called reality, something teenagers fight all the time.  The British Tarantula Society, with their influence and resources haven't been able to make much progress with the Indian government regarding Poecilotheria.  Last I knew, the relationship had deteriorated significantly.  And you're going to waltz in with the miracle solution no one else could come up with?  You, a 14 year old with no money?  Good plan.  Who in England and India's even going to listen to you? 

Contact the BTS and see what the status is on their Poecilotheria efforts and then get back with us.

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## Poec54 (Aug 4, 2016)

Tarantulaguy2001 said:


> Let's not let our poor p. Metallicas dreams die, am I right?


 
The governmental reaction to Poecilotheria's precarious situation is leaning towards banning interstate travel of them.  That will do nothing for saving the spiders and create problems for people trying to propagate them in captivity.  Bureaucrats are more interested in 'doing something', rather than doing something that actually helps.  The problem with Poecilotheria's continued survival isn't the pet trade or smuggling, it's the wanton land clearing and habitat destruction in the wild.  We keep reproducing thousands in captivity, and they keep killing thousands in the wild.  What will releasing CBB's back in the wild accomplish with so few places left for them to live?  The locals don't want them anyways.  We care, they don't.  Governments like to pass 'feel good' legislation, even if it makes matters worse.  That's what we're up against, and the BTS are the people to talk to.  They have, or had, connections to key people in India. 

Any effort that has a chance of success will involve the entire genus, not one species.  You'll need to broaden your focus.

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## Trenor (Aug 4, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> The locals don't want them anyways.


This is a key point that a lot of people fail to see. It's like snakes for us. Local snakes are inconvenient and worrisome for us and are readily killed when encountered. My neighbors have no interested in snake habitat issues anymore they the people in India care about Poecilotheria's habitats. To them it is one more pest that encroaches in only daily life.

Reactions: Agree 6


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## ratluvr76 (Aug 4, 2016)

+1 on the idea that the best way to help P. metallica, or really any Poecilotheria seems to be to breed them as much as possible in the captive populations we have. Plus, educating people to help overcome peoples fear of arachnids in general could only help with that. Whether that happens through spreading the hobby, or just convincing people to tolerate them, and more importantly, tolerate our keeping of them. The real danger, in my mind, is that through ignorance, there could be future legislation that would prohibit us from keeping them in captivity even. Then the ones we DO have in captivity could possibly have to be destroyed to conform to said legislation's. That would be a true shame. I'm in agreement that saving them in their wild populations is unobtainable, but to lose them to legislation would be further tragedy.

Reactions: Agree 5


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## Ceymann (Aug 4, 2016)

ratluvr76 said:


> +1 on the idea that the best way to help P. metallica, or really any Poecilotheria seems to be to breed them as much as possible in the captive populations we have. Plus, educating people to help overcome peoples fear of arachnids in general could only help with that. Whether that happens through spreading the hobby, or just convincing people to tolerate them, and more importantly, tolerate our keeping of them. The real danger, in my mind, is that through ignorance, there could be future legislation that would prohibit us from keeping them in captivity even. Then the ones we DO have in captivity could possibly have to be destroyed to conform to said legislation's. That would be a true shame. I'm in agreement that saving them in their wild populations is unobtainable, but to lose them to legislation would be further tragedy.


What I find interesting is that the sale of endangered animals is illegal in the US, is it not??  and if you look on the ICUN redlist site, pretty much every species of Poecilotheria is listed as endangered. Im honestly surprised sale of said species hasn't been banned.  I doubt they would make current owners destroy their spiders, they would be "grandfathered in" but sales of them would be banned if legislations were made. Im not an lawyer, so just speculating, I very well could be wrong.


As far as the OPs mentioned conservation "project" let the guy dream a little, even if its not realistic.  Many years ago when I got into coral propagation I had a similar idea to help save Atlantic Acropora species.
I was just a kid and didn't live near the ocean, so had absolutely zero means to execute the idea. Fast forward a few  years and guy started the coral reef restoration project in Ft, myers FL focusing on Acropora and it has really taken off.  Nothings impossible, nothing wrong with dreaming.   However, dreaming doesn't warrant a kickstarter/ go fund me type of deal. 
Study hard and get a degree in entomology, focus your studies on the genus, get a plan, propose the idea to get grants to fund the project and go from there.  I admire your ambition and wish you luck.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Poec54 (Aug 4, 2016)

Trenor said:


> This is a key point that a lot of people fail to see. It's like snakes for us. Local snakes are inconvenient and worrisome for us and are readily killed when encountered. My neighbors have no interested in snake habitat issues anymore they the people in India care about Poecilotheria's habitats. To them it is one more pest that encroaches in only daily life.


 
Exactly.  If they're cutting down trees at a prodigious rate for construction & firewood, and usually killing tarantulas on sight, how can people in another country across the ocean do anything to stop it?  The top priority for India is managing the huge human population that exceeds their resources.  They've got poverty, unemployment, illiteracy, famine, disease, lack of sanitation, lack of doctors and hospitals, lack of roads, etc.  They're a third world country.  They're not going to drop everything to save what a few crazy white guys think are pretty spiders. 

The US is full of ignorant people that kill snakes on sight.  Do you think people from another country can get those people to stop doing it?  *We* can't even get them to stop doing it, and we live here with them.  

We're not the ones to preach to.  We're not cutting down trees and killing spiders.  There's a guy from New York, Romulus Whitaker, that moved to India to work with the locals to save king cobras.  He's been featured on several TV specials.  If you're as passionate & committed as you say you are, you will do the same with Poecilotheria.  You have to be there with the people who are impacting the animals on a daily basis, that's the only way to make a change.  Without that person-to-person contact, they'll continue doing what they've been doing.  It's a hands on thing, just like with Whitaker.

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## ratluvr76 (Aug 4, 2016)

Ceymann said:


> What I find interesting is that the sale of endangered animals is illegal in the US, is it not??  and if you look on the ICUN redlist site, pretty much every species of Poecilotheria is listed as endangered. Im honestly surprised sale of said species hasn't been banned.  I doubt they would make current owners destroy their spiders, they would be "grandfathered in" but sales of them would be banned if legislations were made. Im not an lawyer, so just speculating, I very well could be wrong.



The sale of endangered animals from wild populations is illegal. The sale of endangered species from captive bred and propagated populations isn't always illegal. Particularly of species that aren't cute or cuddly enough for the general population to care enough about. Maybe I'm not saying what I mean in the right way, but this is the only way I know to say it.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ceymann (Aug 4, 2016)

ratluvr76 said:


> The sale of endangered animals from wild populations is illegal. The sale of endangered species from captive bred and propagated populations isn't always illegal. Particularly of species that aren't cute or cuddly enough for the general population to care enough about. Maybe I'm not saying what I mean in the right way, but this is the only way I know to say it.


I see, certainly isn't that way in the reef hobby, some people are stuck with corals that became endangered and now can't sell the trimmings/ props, they have to throw them away, sad and pointless if you ask me, sounds like the lines maybe blurred in the eyes of the law when it comes to different animals, I get what you are saying though, but who said pokies aren't cute and cuddly?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Poec54 (Aug 4, 2016)

> "Ceymann, post: 2509064, member: 115387" I get what you are saying though, but who said pokies aren't cute and cuddly?


 
99.99999% of the world's population.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 4


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## Trenor (Aug 4, 2016)

Ceymann said:


> I see, certainly isn't that way in the reef hobby, some people are stuck with corals that became endangered and now can't sell the trimmings/ props, they have to throw them away


I'm not sure how the laws would work in this case but would one be able to give away these trimmings? Is the law geared toward the profit or toward ownership?


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## BorisTheSpider (Aug 4, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> 99.99999% of the world's population.


Poec you might be detrimental to the hobby , but at least you are advantageous to humor .

Reactions: Funny 1


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## magicmed (Aug 4, 2016)

I'll just put my 2 cents in, looks like everyone's got everything about covered, but here's my belief..

Natural extinction as much as I hate to admit it is inevitable for many species of animal, it is increased dramatically by human intervention via destruction of natural habitats and mass collection for food, product, or pet trade.  Once an animals natural habitat is beyond repair for that species (whether that be their homes, food source, camouflage, etc) it is just a lost species (in nature)

That does NOT mean that the captive population has to die out. If enough experienced keepers began breeding and relocating the species to like minded hobbiest, then the animals "natural" habitat would essentially become the husbandry of the accepted enclosure. More and more people breed the species, and it becomes a solely captive bred species. Unless you have a TON of space, funds, food, and a crazy ecosystem machine to duplicate the animals natural habitat on a LARGE scale, that's just the only way to go about saving a species with such a selective habitat.

I hope you don't take this as insulting or anything like that, just offering reasons why naturally, some species wI'll just die off and that's turbo charged by humans

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Tenevanica (Aug 4, 2016)

magicmed said:


> I'll just put my 2 cents in, looks like everyone's got everything about covered, but here's my belief..
> 
> Natural extinction as much as I hate to admit it is inevitable for many species of animal, it is increased dramatically by human intervention via destruction of natural habitats and mass collection for food, product, or pet trade.  Once an animals natural habitat is beyond repair for that species (whether that be their homes, food source, camouflage, etc) it is just a lost species (in nature)
> 
> ...


Amen! My exact thoughts! Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Love 1


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## Poec54 (Aug 4, 2016)

BorisTheSpider said:


> Poec you might be detrimental to the hobby , but at least you are advantageous to humor .


 
Thank you.  It's not easy providing entertainment & snappy patter for a bunch of bug owners.  They're a tough crowd.

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 4


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## BorisTheSpider (Aug 4, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> Thank you.  It's not easy providing entertainment & snappy patter for a bunch of bug owners.  They're a tough crowd.


Ain't that the truth .

Reactions: Like 1


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## Tarantulaguy2001 (Aug 7, 2016)

Coconana said:


> There is a marked difference between pessimism and realism. You have _nowhere_ to throw any money you may have when it comes to 'saving the species'. We understand your passion --that's what unites every hobbyist here--but you did not come to this thread with realistic expectations. You came with 'dreams', and ideas, which, while respectable, is not enough to accomplish what it is that you want.
> 
> Calling the choir you're preaching to 'pessimistic' is counterproductive; many of us are already contributing to the current captive population by breeding and promoting the species, given that is is likely to be extinct in the wild in twenty, thirty years. I recommend you join the effort (_as we can see that you do care very much_) by listening to some of these members here, especially given that there were some very thoughtful and informative posts in this thread.


I agree. Its time for me to come out of my shell. I apologize for disagreeing with you. This species is doomed to Be a domestic species forever. I am sorry if I was rude. I am also autistic, with aspergers syndrome, so it is hard for me to socialize since I cannot agree with other people easily. Please, find it in your heart to forgive me. All of you actually. Thank you and everyone else for your support. I am going to raise domestic P.Metallicas and promote the breeding of domestic ones. This may be the only way. You are right. I don't have that kind of money. Plus, I'm only 14. I am so sorry if I was rude to you.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Tarantulaguy2001 (Aug 7, 2016)

Poec54 said:


> It's called reality, something teenagers fight all the time.  The British Tarantula Society, with their influence and resources haven't been able to make much progress with the Indian government regarding Poecilotheria.  Last I knew, the relationship had deteriorated significantly.  And you're going to waltz in with the miracle solution no one else could come up with?  You, a 14 year old with no money?  Good plan.  Who in England and India's even going to listen to you?
> 
> Contact the BTS and see what the status is on their Poecilotheria efforts and then get back with us.


I am going to go to the bts webpage and see it. Thanks for the suggestion. Again, you are right. They are doomed. I'm sorry for disagreeing with you. Being 14 with aspergers syndrome makes me very... Optimistic and stubborn once I prove my point. I am sorry if I was rude at any point.

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## Poec54 (Aug 7, 2016)

Tarantulaguy2001 said:


> I am going to go to the bts webpage and see it. Thanks for the suggestion. Again, you are right. They are doomed. I'm sorry for disagreeing with you. Being 14 with aspergers syndrome makes me very... Optimistic and stubborn once I prove my point. I am sorry if I was rude at any point.



Enthusiasm & passion is good, you don't want to lose that.  When you can focus that into action, is when you accomplish things.  If you're willing to live in India, you would be able to do great things in conservation.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 7, 2016)

I'm not able to figure out how this _Theraphosidae _rescue/save nonsense match with 2016 reality. Are we serious? We are reaching the point that elephants and lions (and other animals) are next to disappear at this rate if things continue this way (and I have the slightly feeling that things will continue this way), and probably our nephews would see those animals using a sort of Internet 5.0 with a 4/5 D hologram devices, and we are talking about saving spiders from: "third world nations that aren't anymore exactly completely third world like once and in a full crazy run of modernization at the cost of mother nature but oh who cares?", ah ah?

The people supporting/helping the big, supposed powerful, worldwide famous organizations supposed to protect the animals (and those animals environment) stated above fail hard, their dreams crumbling against a lot of things and issue, things and issues/reasons that, no matter the nation, starts and ends with the word 'cash'.

The only serious thing we can do on that sense for _Theraphosidae _is CB breed those. The rest are words made nothing of dreams and illusions.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Clarification Please 1


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## Trenor (Aug 7, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> "third world nations that aren't anymore exactly completely third world like once and in a full crazy run of modernization at the cost of mother nature but oh who cares?", ah ah?


This is every country that went through modernization/industrialization periods which is almost all countries. 

Awareness for animal conservation has gone up but lets be honest. We can't feed and take care of our own species so what makes you think we will fair any better with these other animal species?


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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 7, 2016)

Trenor said:


> This is every country that went through modernization/industrialization periods which is almost all countries.


No doubts, but in today era IMO is worst and pushed to another level. Italy, for instance. We went through that as well, but existed always a sort of respect for the boot environment/nature/life, sadly, not anymore today, because speculation prevail at all levels.



Trenor said:


> Awareness for animal conservation has gone up but lets be honest. We can't feed and take care of our own species so what makes you think we will fair any better with these other animal species?


I don't disagree. On a cash only themed world who cares about? That's the problem for me: lack of respect, uneducation, and 'cash' above everything. Above life.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Tenevanica (Aug 7, 2016)

Tarantulaguy2001 said:


> Being 14 with aspergers syndrome makes me very...


Damn, you really remind me of myself. I've the exact same syndromes. I did not, however, propose a multimillion dollar effort to save a critically endangered species that very few people care about.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Tarantulaguy2001 (Aug 7, 2016)

Tenevanica said:


> Damn, you really remind me of myself. I've the exact same syndromes. I did not, however, propose a multimillion dollar effort to save a critically endangered species that very few people care about.


Yea, I love tarantulas to that point!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 7, 2016)

@Tarantulaguy2001

I'm sorry man, but I don't have the idea of what I have to clarify about post # 108 but let me rephrase.

We are living in a world that doesn't care at all about everything, aside for cash, power, control. And for mantain those 'values'. There's, as I've said, the serious risk of extinction of elephants (and other animals) if things continue this way, and things doesn't seem to change IMO. Do you think, then, that someone will care about spiders? Really?

I wish you the best, your intentions are noble and worth of respect, but reality, sadly, says another thing.

Respect for nature and wildlife in this era is reduced to a 'fashion' thing, like the brand new condo but "wow, with a couple of trees in the middle of those".

There is also the weather issue to consider, the "revenge" of mother nature. Talking about genus _Poecilotheria _in general (so not only _P.metallica_) there's not only India to consider, but Sri Lanka as well, and the situation isn't that good.

Those floods and landslides how much life snuff in minutes?

As I've said, the best is to CB breed those _Theraphosidae_. This is what we can do.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Tarantulaguy2001 (Aug 7, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> @Tarantulaguy2001
> 
> I'm sorry man, but I don't have the idea of what I have to clarify about post # 108 but let me rephrase.
> 
> ...


That was a mouthfull, but you clarified it. Thanks. Also, you talked about the good and the bad outcomes for this. I kinda sorta agree with some of it, but I actually found a part of it offensive. I hope you know that the Wildlife Conservation Society (WCS) or the Wildlife Protection Society is actually protecting all of the endangered animals-- all except for the P. Metallica tarantulas. I hope you can understand me.


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## Tarantulaguy2001 (Aug 7, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> @Tarantulaguy2001
> 
> I'm sorry man, but I don't have the idea of what I have to clarify about post # 108 but let me rephrase.
> 
> ...


And, my intentions are true and noble to their word. I swear it on a stack of bibles.


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## Tarantulaguy2001 (Aug 7, 2016)

magicmed said:


> I'll just put my 2 cents in, looks like everyone's got everything about covered, but here's my belief..
> 
> Natural extinction as much as I hate to admit it is inevitable for many species of animal, it is increased dramatically by human intervention via destruction of natural habitats and mass collection for food, product, or pet trade.  Once an animals natural habitat is beyond repair for that species (whether that be their homes, food source, camouflage, etc) it is just a lost species (in nature)
> 
> ...


This would be a horrible suggestion, but it would really work: STOP HUMANS FROM REPOPULATING!!!

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 7, 2016)

Tarantulaguy2001 said:


> And, my intentions are true and noble to their word. I swear it on a stack of bibles.


As I've said, I have no doubts about your intentions, man. Intentions worth of respect.


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## Chris LXXIX (Aug 7, 2016)

Tarantulaguy2001 said:


> That was a mouthfull, but you clarified it. Thanks. Also, you talked about the good and the bad outcomes for this. I kinda sorta agree with some of it, but I actually found a part of it offensive. I hope you know that the Wildlife Conservation Society (WCS) or the Wildlife Protection Society is actually protecting all of the endangered animals-- all except for the P. Metallica tarantulas. I hope you can understand me.


I don't care nor IMO matters to me if you (or others) think that what I've said, or part of, sounds offensive. I'm used to that, and I'm talking about "real life", the one that matters. 
I do know that there's people, worldwide, struggling for defend and protect animals and the environment. As I know well, that, on the "higher roofs", no one cares. It's called "today reality".

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Trenor (Aug 7, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> No doubts, but in today era IMO is worst and pushed to another level. Italy, for instance. We went through that as well, but existed always a sort of respect for the boot environment/nature/life, sadly, not anymore today, because speculation prevail at all levels.


I'm not disputing what you said. I agree with it mostly but when Italy was going through industrialization it was still early in the industrial era so a lot of changes/effects were more gradual. They are trying to catch up with the rest of us in one big swoop which ends up like we are seeing. We have some of the same issues here as well. There are cities in the US I would never live unless I had no other choice because of the pollution. This is the world we live in.

I just find it odd that we seem to expect more from everyone in the world in regards to protecting animals when most people could care less about other people. If we can't be bothered to care about each other how can we be bothered to care for animal <insert any animal besides humans here>?


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## Tarantulaguy2001 (Aug 7, 2016)

Chris LXXIX said:


> As I've said, I have no doubts about your intentions, man. Intentions worth of respect.


Thanks, bro. I like your attitude.


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