# Breeding tailless whip scorpions



## Graeboe (Feb 22, 2015)

Ok hopefully I'm not blind and didn't see any threads covering this but I have a m/f pair of tailless whip scorpions and was curious about breeding them. Temp, humidity, etc. Also this is the first pair I've owned that weren't already full grown so the other question would be what size should they be when they are capable of mating. And of course any other tips and experiances you guys have had would be great.


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## Ripa (Feb 22, 2015)

What species of tailless whip scorpion did you buy? Some measure as little as 4 inch legspan, others can get 15-20 inch legspan. Additionally, they're not true scorpions, so this should have technically gone under the True Spiders & Other Arachnids thread


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## Graeboe (Feb 27, 2015)

As far as I can tell they are damon diadema. Their bodies are about an 1", 1 1/2". I've had one before that unfortunately ended up having a bad molt but he was larger than these two.


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## Austin S. (Feb 27, 2015)

I've never attempted breeding them, but everything you are looking for, can be found here: 
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...TWqoFI&usg=AFQjCNGQm7RFGx30bJoGtxkDpoKbkVZbww

I tried making the link into a hyperlink, but it didn't work.. 

I just quickly scrolled though it, but it is the most informational link I've scrolled through thus far.
Good luck.


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## fuzzyavics72 (Feb 27, 2015)

Are you even sure you have a male and female? Also they're way too small.


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## zonbonzovi (Feb 27, 2015)

Sexing Damon diadema is simple after several molts.  Male pedipalps at the "elbow" extend beyond the femur of the 2nd pair of legs.  Female's palps do not.  That body size is average for adults.  If they are paired keep an eye out for the spermatophore.  Humidity, esp. after eggs develop, is vitally important to keep them from drying out.


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## fuzzyavics72 (Feb 27, 2015)

Tailless whips in general are easy to sex. I guess I've always had bigger specimens. I got into the arachnid hobby because off tailless whips. And I just lost my sac because it was too dry. I didn't expect her to make one so soon.


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## Graeboe (Feb 28, 2015)

fuzzyavics72 said:


> Are you even sure you have a male and female? Also they're way too small.


I'm pretty sure they have the classic longer and shorter pedipalps.


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## fuzzyavics72 (Feb 28, 2015)

Would you post pictures? And here's my female damon.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ripa (Feb 28, 2015)

They sound a bit too small to breed at the moment. What I like about these guys compared to many other arachnids is that they can live communally (granted the space is large enough) so you don't have to worry about separating them during mating in lieu of one killing and eating the other.

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Graeboe said:


> I'm pretty sure they have the classic longer and shorter pedipalps.


Yea, females have the less-extravagant pedipalps.


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## Graeboe (Feb 28, 2015)

Here's their setup. No individual pics yet, they were hiding inside the logs right now


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## fuzzyavics72 (Feb 28, 2015)

Not bad, but I would use cork and multiple pieces to give them multiple hiding places. Female's will eat their males after they've molted. It's happened twice to me while keeping breeding pairs together.

Also note while gravid tailless whips become super defensive and have heard of gravid female's killing other gravid females. From what I was told tailless whips are the best mothers in arachnids.


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## Graeboe (Mar 1, 2015)

Here's the two of them hanging out


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## tarcan (Mar 1, 2015)

fuzzyavics72 said:


> Tailless whips in general are easy to sex. I guess I've always had bigger specimens. I got into the arachnid hobby because off tailless whips. And I just lost my sac because it was too dry. I didn't expect her to make one so soon.


I would not really agree with that statement, how many different species have you worked with? Damon and other Phrynichidae, yes, very easy, but a lot of Phrynidae are not that easy, with very little sexual dimorphism.

D. diadema females can produce eggs being smaller than 1" in body length.

Amblypigi will be sexually mature at a much smaller size than most people think. Here is a picture of two Paraphrynus aztecus females. The one carrying eggs is not the one you would think!!

Reactions: Like 2


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## Ripa (Mar 1, 2015)

tarcan said:


> I would not really agree with that statement, how many different species have you worked with? Damon and other Phrynichidae, yes, very easy, but a lot of Phrynidae are not that easy, with very little sexual dimorphism.
> 
> D. diadema females can produce eggs being smaller than 1" in body length.
> 
> Amblypigi will be sexually mature at a much smaller size than most people think. Here is a picture of two Paraphrynus aztecus females. The one carrying eggs is not the one you would think!!


But are the young they produce likely to be healthy or the eggs fertile at that size?


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## fuzzyavics72 (Mar 1, 2015)

Whoops you're correct a great majority you can. Unfortunately, I've had mostly damons and all the pictures I've seen the tailless are sexually dimorphic. I recently got back into tailless whips, so i'm a bit rusty. And we don't get many sp. of tailless in the states. It's sad when you guys (Canada has more species)


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## tarcan (Mar 1, 2015)

well, keep in mind that I only started working seriously with amblypygi almost 2 years ago, so I do not have that much experience.

for that example, I do not know yet as the eggs have not hatched yet. I had Paraphrynus cubensis produce, a tiny female gave me 12 babies, all were very healthy and the 6 that I kept from that clutch are all doing fine. They were all normal size for babies of that species. A full grow female has given me over 40 babies in comparison.

As far as not many species available in the US, the species are there to import, just no one is interested in doing it I guess. Most importers do it for resale and there is really not a whole lot of demand for these animals. I do it for my own personal pleasure, so I do not care if no one wants any! So far I have bred a few species and people still just want my D. diadema babies, not the others!

Keep in mind that since that part of the hobby is not so advanced, not many people are interested in smaller species. And since the "common" D. diadema gets really big by amblypygi standards, people would not go for small Phrynidae for example. It is like people who start in keeping tarantulas, they all wants a big species, they never ask for a dwarf to start with! Too bad though, as there are some really nice and interesting species.

Martin


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## Biollantefan54 (Mar 1, 2015)

I would want the small species....well...any species. It seems the only ones for sale here are D. diadema, P. marginemaculatas, and the occasional H. batesii.


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## tarcan (Mar 1, 2015)

and Paraphrynus carolynae, sold under P. mexicanus


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## Gekkotan (Mar 2, 2015)

I would like to know that too. I have some Heterophrynus sp here. I am still not able to say what are the sexes. They are kept in groups, I bet they need at least 2 more molts to get their adult size, and lots of spermatophores everywhere.


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## pannaking22 (Mar 2, 2015)

@tarcan, do you have any recommendations for keeping/breeding P. carolynae? I have been trying to get several individuals for eventual breeding, but am still waiting for them to grow a bit (though it sounds like I may have some leeway when it comes to size now).


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## tarcan (Mar 2, 2015)

I wish I could help, but I have not bred them yet. I have a group of 10 specimens that I got late last year. There are 4 females that I can see the eggs through them, but they are not laying them. I suspect that like other animals from more arid regions, they will be harder to breed and probably need a trigger of some sort. In retrospect, I should have cooled them down for the winter a little. I was not sure if they bred before cooling and layed the eggs the next year, or they did everything from spring. Anyway, I still hope they will lay the eggs, it is a gorgeous little species.


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## peterUK (Mar 5, 2015)

I got > > >   Breeding the World's Largest Living Arachnid: Amblypygid (Whipspider) Biology, Natural History, and Captive Husbandry   <<< as a present last Christmas and i've just started to read it tonight.
 So far having read approx half, I would say it is definitely worth the money and I think it is the only book on this subject.

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/sho...ving-Arachnid-(Amblypygids)-by-Orin-McMonigle


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## pannaking22 (Mar 6, 2015)

tarcan said:


> I wish I could help, but I have not bred them yet. I have a group of 10 specimens that I got late last year. There are 4 females that I can see the eggs through them, but they are not laying them. I suspect that like other animals from more arid regions, they will be harder to breed and probably need a trigger of some sort. In retrospect, I should have cooled them down for the winter a little. I was not sure if they bred before cooling and layed the eggs the next year, or they did everything from spring. Anyway, I still hope they will lay the eggs, it is a gorgeous little species.


Ah bummer. Mine are still pretty small, but I'm hoping they'll all molt once or twice this year and be able to breed. 

@peterUK, that's a great book


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## smashtoad (Mar 14, 2015)

*Age/Size*

They are more than big enough to breed.  As soon as I could, I would separate the males and females.  Keep them separate until you want to try breeding.  Absence make the heart grow fonder.

When I introduced my male for the first time into the females tank, after a couple months of having them, I saw courtship within 5 minutes.  Now...this may not help everyone.  It may not even be necessary.  But why keep them together, having to compete for the same food. Then they're all like, "God...here she comes.  Nasty hag."

Makes sense to me to keep them away from each other, fatten them,  then toss them together.  Like I said...I had a spermatophore the very next morning.

As far as your tank goes...I'd add some higher flat structure.

Good luck


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## tarcan (Mar 30, 2015)

just a quick update, the eggs from the tiny female hatched and I have 4 nice healthy looking babies!


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## Biollantefan54 (Mar 30, 2015)

tarcan said:


> just a quick update, the eggs from the tiny female hatched and I have 4 nice healthy looking babies!


Wow, that TINY one you posted earlier? That's awesome. Are the babies the same size as the ones the larger one would produce? That is so cool!


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## tarcan (Apr 6, 2015)

yes, the tiny one. Hopefully I can answer your question in several months as I never bred this species (I got this little female and she was already mated). I mated two big females. I doubt there will be any difference in size, just more babies. This clutch had 4 babies!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Biollantefan54 (Apr 6, 2015)

Wow! That is really cool lol! Good luck 
My Damon diadema's eggs are getting a little bigger, I am guessing that is a good sign! :love:


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## tarcan (Jul 17, 2015)

ok, final update here, the babies from the big P. aztecus female hatched, there were 30 in total, compared to 4 for the small one!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Biollantefan54 (Jul 17, 2015)

Wow, awesome! I realized I posted my D. diadema had eggs...they hatched about 3 days ago I believe, 30+!


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## pannaking22 (Jul 18, 2015)

Congrats!!!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Arachnomaniac19 (Jul 20, 2015)

I don't want to hijack this thread, but I thought someone would appreciate this: http://go.galegroup.com/ps/i.do?id=...est=b6ecd3e13e7a5413192fd01d0519f085&rssr=rss

Reactions: Like 1


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## DubiaW (May 9, 2017)

Arachnomaniac19 said:


> I don't want to hijack this thread, but I thought someone would appreciate this: http://go.galegroup.com/ps/i.do?id=GALE|A222409934&v=2.1&u=mlin_b_umass&it=r&inPS=true&prodId=AONE&userGroupName=mlin_b_umass&p=AONE&digest=b6ecd3e13e7a5413192fd01d0519f085&rssr=rss


I know this is an old thread but I've been thinking about getting into amblypygids. I'm ordering the only book on breeding them tonight. It is encouraging to see you guys having so much success. The Journal article on kin discrimination has peaked my interest even more.


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## schmiggle (May 9, 2017)

DubiaW said:


> I know this is an old thread but I've been thinking about getting into amblypygids. I'm ordering the only book on breeding them tonight. It is encouraging to see you guys having so much success. The Journal article on kin discrimination has peaked my interest even more.


_Heterophrynus batesii _actually lives in social groups of 2-8 in the wild, the thought being that it allows more of them to utilize large, complex buttresses, which they prefer. I'm too lazy to find the paper now, but will do so tomorrow if I remember  Did you buy Orin McMonigle's book, or another I don't know of?

May I say that you should totally get some because amblypygi are amazing! Probably my favorite arachnid, possibly my favorite arthropod.

Reactions: Like 1


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## DubiaW (May 9, 2017)

Yes, Orin's book. I'm also eyeballing his book on vinegaroons. I think I am going to exceed my tightwad limit if I buy three all in one night. Oh yeah I also just bought his book on Centipede husbandry tonight as well. I am getting into captive breeding and I want to do it right. My goal is to breed local species to relieve collection stress as well as my dream list of inverts. One day maybe it can be more than a hobby. Gotta have dreams.


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## DubiaW (May 9, 2017)

If I like Orin's books I might just start collecting everything that he has published in my wheelhouse. I've seen multiple enthusiasts recommend his works. I'm thinking: Roaches, millipedes, vinegaroons, Scorpions, T's, mantids and even beetles.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Phyre Haven (Jul 31, 2020)

I have a quick question. Do gravid Whips still eat while eggbound? Or do they stop? Just found out she's pregnant last night.


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## mantisfan101 (Aug 2, 2020)

They will continue to eat but generally try snd feed them 1-2x a month


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