# How long will an Avicularia Avicularia go without eating?



## CABIV (Sep 22, 2014)

Hi guys,

I hesitate to post here only because there are tons of threads on these tarantulas (and I've read through a mind-numbing amount over since mid-august when I first signed up here!).  I'm hoping some of you may be able to alleviate my concerns. 

*The short story- My Avicularia avicularia doesn't eat. Its also my first tarantula, but not my first insect or spider.   I've had it for a month.   How do I determine stress vs premolt? How long will it fast?  Would it be likely to molt as we enter the fall and the temperatures drop?*


The details-

Cage and conditions:

-It is kept in a 5 gallon fish tank,  though horizontally oriented (not vertically as recommended for arboreals) 

-Though initially I used a spray bottle to mist the cage, I have discontinued this practice as it seems ineffective.  

-Temperature was maintained at 70+ degrees (room temp),  though recently temperatures have fallen to no less than 65.  

-Humidity _WERE_ maintained at 70+,  through the use of two water dishes,  and damp substrate underneath dry substrate,  layered 2-3 inches of coconut choir.  A live plant also initially inhabited the cage. 

-The top of the cage is a metal wire screen that slides in and out.  Other than some tape to block holes in the screen, it is open and allows much ventilation. 

- Last week large number of mites were found on a cricket that had died after only a short time in the cage.  Further investigation revealed many book lice as well.   These did not seem to inhabit the upper regions of the cage where the tarantula was sitting.  The tarantula was clean.  Still, resources such as "The Tarantula Keeper's Guide" recommended such a scenario was a bad sign.   
-I have since cleared out the cage,  bleached it (and rinsed it copiously!),  and microwaved the wood decorations for 5 minutes on high each.  The substrate was discarded.

-Currently,  the cage has a small hollow log and a branch inside,  with a thin layer of coconut choir (thin enough you can still see the glass underneath in most places).   The two water dishes were returned, though humidity now seems to hover between 65 and 70%.   As the fall approaches,  the room temperature seems to be falling as well to also in the 65+ range (though it will reach the 70s at times).  I am planning to move the tank to my room, which stays warmer most of the day.  No more mites, book lice, or flies have been observed. 
-A cardboard toilet paper tube has been added.  

Tarantula Behavior

-It has a leg span of 3 inches, and the body is over 1 1/4" long.  The abdomen does not appear fat, but it doesn't look slim and skinny either. Pictures are attached. 

-As mentioned above, it does not seem to want to eat.   If it has, I have not found the food bolus.   It will not take crickets offered in front of it.  Crickets have actually walked on the tarantula and it did not react.   

-The tarantula has not webbed much.  Small bits of webbing were found on some decorations, but nothing significant (it look more like a cob web, whispy and nearly not there!).   However,  in the past few days the tarantula climbed into the cardboard tube and has webbed it slightly more than the other decorations,  but still not a very significant amount. It is more and more webbed every day, however.

-It appears to be somewhat active.  Though in the morning it looks like it is sitting in the same place,  I have watched it walk around the cage at night, though very slowly and usually not very far.  Lately, it has been staying in one place for much longer periods,  though even then, it appears to shift position slightly, usually turning to face a different direction. 

-Many times I've found it on the bottom of the tank for a couple days, which I understand is not a happy place for an Avic. 

-It allows me to touch it,  and will stretch its legs out if stroked lightly.  I find this interesting, since I would have expected the tarantula to move away. (at the time, it was sitting with some of its legs on a water dish that I needed to empty and change.  It would not move or let go!).  True to the claims, this appears to be a VERY docile tarantula!

- That said, it will not stay on my hand for any length of time (frustrating when I am trying to move it).  It seems to be able to sense that my hand is not a "normal" surface and will maneuver around it.   If it does sit on me, it will do so for only a moment before attempting to scoot quickly to another decoration in the cage.  

-It does not appear worn out or sick.  When I had the tarantula out of its tank to clean it,  I inspected it with a powerful magnifying lens, and observed no signs of pests or sickness, as outlined in "The Taratula Keeper's Guide".  


This is its appearance as of 9/20.  

Thank you for your assistance! 

Chris


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## BobGrill (Sep 22, 2014)

It'll eat when it decides to eat. There is no way at all to determine this. If it's in premolt, it could be several more months.

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## Arachnomaniac19 (Sep 22, 2014)

Sometimes they just won't eat. In your case though it seems more like pre-molt. Also if you got your T from a pet store it probably isn't a true Avicularia avicularia, but I'm not an avic expert so who knows, yours might be. Make sure the tank has lots of ventilation as well. Good luck, Bryce.

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## Poec54 (Sep 22, 2014)

It doesn't have a fat abdomen, so it probably isn't premolt.  It should be eating.  The proper set up for Avics is dry substrate and a water bowl, with cross ventilation.  I don't like screen tops as cold and hot drafts can blow in them, plus they're more susceptible to fumes and smoke.  The wood looks good, but it should have some plastic plants so it's not so exposed, that also encourages spinning.   

Why are you handling it?  That adds to it's stress  It needs to adjust to it's new surroundings and Godzilla keeps picking it up.

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## VenomousMe (Sep 22, 2014)

I have an avic I purchased about 2 months ago. She had a completely bald abdomen and a large dark spot as well. I put her in a small standard arboreal setup and she stayed pretty much the same. Didn't do much, didn't eat, looked pre-molty to me. I started reading threads about avics again and found out that while humidity might be important, ventilation seems to be much more of an issue with them. I increased her ventilation a BUNCH, just to be safe, and she seemed to become more active over the next day or so..A few days after that she started eating crickets gently off the tongs. She has started growing her hair back on her abdomen but she still has the dark spot, so I guess she's still in pre-molt, but it seems to be a long one and she seems to have a good appetite now..The only other thing I did differently in that period was lower the room temp a few degrees to 73 F. Hope this helps.


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## Poec54 (Sep 22, 2014)

Your temps are too cool for a wild caught spider that just came from the tropics.  That's part of the problem, on top of all the other adjustments it has to make.  

Last month I helped a local dealer unpack 400 Avic Avics from Guyana, and some looked like yours with dull colors.  Yours probably needs to molt, but first it needs food and water to plump up.

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## Spepper (Sep 22, 2014)

I'm not a tarantula expert (far from it in fact, so I could very well be wrong) but shouldn't it have more substrate than just enough to barely cover the glass on the bottom?  I hear a lot about deep enough substrate on here.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## ratluvr76 (Sep 22, 2014)

VenomousMe said:


> I have an avic I purchased about 2 months ago. She had a completely bald abdomen and a large dark spot as well. I put her in a small standard arboreal setup and she stayed pretty much the same. Didn't do much, didn't eat, looked pre-molty to me. I started reading threads about avics again and found out that while humidity might be important, ventilation seems to be much more of an issue with them. I increased her ventilation a BUNCH, just to be safe, and she seemed to become more active over the next day or so..A few days after that she started eating crickets gently off the tongs. She has started growing her hair back on her abdomen but she still has the dark spot, so I guess she's still in pre-molt, but it seems to be a long one and she seems to have a good appetite now..The only other thing I did differently in that period was lower the room temp a few degrees to 73 F. Hope this helps.


to my knowledge.. Tarantula's do not regrow the lost hairs from their abdomens until they molt. just saying.


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## Poec54 (Sep 23, 2014)

Spepper said:


> I'm not a tarantula expert (far from it in fact, so I could very well be wrong) but shouldn't it have more substrate than just enough to barely cover the glass on the bottom?  I hear a lot about deep enough substrate on here.


Avics don't make retreats in the substrate (unlike most other 'arboreals'), so they only need enough to provide a cushion if they fall, and to anchor the cage decorations and water bowl in.

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## CABIV (Sep 23, 2014)

Poec54 said:


> It doesn't have a fat abdomen, so it probably isn't premolt.  It should be eating.  The proper set up for Avics is dry substrate and a water bowl, with cross ventilation.  I don't like screen tops as cold and hot drafts can blow in them, plus they're more susceptible to fumes and smoke.  The wood looks good, but it should have some plastic plants so it's not so exposed, that also encourages spinning.
> 
> Why are you handling it?  That adds to it's stress  It needs to adjust to it's new surroundings and Godzilla keeps picking it up.



I do try to avoid handling it or touching it.  I usually only bug it if I have to.  For instance, in the old set up,  the tarantula would frequently sit between the large piece of wood I have in there, and the glass side of the tank.   Because it was cramped, I couldn't reach in to collect dead crickets or the water dish without bumping the log and potentially hurting the tarantula.  I figured I could nudge it over,  but I found it was actually difficult to "scare" it away (and I don't want to make it any more stressed than it is).   The  only two times I ever really picked it up was when i has to clean the tank,  and when it latched onto a water bowl that I needed to dump out.  

As far as a "hidden" location goes,  the tarantula appears to have webbed up the inside of the toilet paper tube I put in there.   Its still fairly whispy,  but its definitely more substantial than I've observed previously.    Last night, it had almost walled itself in,  but this morning there was a hole and I assume it climbed out at night.     

I will look for some fake plants to put in there.   Not that I want to stress the spider out more,  but would it be wise to eventually vertically orient the tank, or should I just leave it alone?




Poec54 said:


> Your temps are too cool for a wild caught spider that just came from the tropics.  That's part of the problem, on top of all the other adjustments it has to make.
> 
> Last month I helped a local dealer unpack 400 Avic Avics from Guyana, and some looked like yours with dull colors.  Yours probably needs to molt, but first it needs food and water to plump up.


I was concerned about this, but I was also concerned about burning the tarantula with a heat pad.   Even though its supposed to spend most of its time on the top of the cage,  I spot this Pink Toe on the bottom all the time.   I understand that heat lamps aren't appropriate either.    My room is much warmer than many other parts of my house, so I will make space for it there.   Still,  even my room does get cold in the winter.  


*The following photo is the OLD set up.*   I have not taken an overall shot of the new organization of the cage.   one of the water Dishes was removed in these shots.    Should I attempt to build a similar interior,  but with fake plants and less substrate? (and probably a few tubes for good measure?)   I am considering removing the large log.  The spider never seems to go inside, but all the crickets do.   It takes up a lot of space as well.


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## VenomousMe (Sep 23, 2014)

ratluvr76 said:


> to my knowledge.. Tarantula's do not regrow the lost hairs from their abdomens until they molt. just saying.


What knowledge do you refer to? Experience? You know this for fact? "to my knowledge" is rather vague man. I've only had one tarantula molt, so I'm not sure. But it looks like mine is regrowing her abdomen hair. Don't worry sweetheart I'll be more precise next time, just for you. I've only been here a short time and I'm already getting tired of the "regulars" here..

Reactions: Funny 2


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## BobGrill (Sep 23, 2014)

VenomousMe said:


> What knowledge do you refer to? Experience? You know this for fact? "to my knowledge" is rather vague man. I've only had one tarantula molt, so I'm not sure. But it looks like mine is regrowing her abdomen hair. Don't worry sweetheart I'll be more precise next time, just for you. I've only been here a short time and I'm already getting tired of the "regulars" here..


Okay, take it easy man. If you're really that easily bothered, then maybe this isn't the best forum to be a member of. I understand it's frustrating dealing with certain people here, but from what I'm reading, it doesn't look like anyone was directly attacking or insulting you. Yeah he was a bit snappy with his wording, and could've worded it better, but I don't think it's anything worth getting this upset over.

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## ratluvr76 (Sep 23, 2014)

VenomousMe said:


> What knowledge do you refer to? Experience? You know this for fact? "to my knowledge" is rather vague man. I've only had one tarantula molt, so I'm not sure. But it looks like mine is regrowing her abdomen hair. Don't worry sweetheart I'll be more precise next time, just for you. I've only been here a short time and I'm already getting tired of the "regulars" here..


wow... kiss my ass??

Reactions: Like 3 | Funny 1


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## Oumriel (Sep 23, 2014)

VenomousMe said:


> What knowledge do you refer to? Experience? You know this for fact? "to my knowledge" is rather vague man. I've only had one tarantula molt, so I'm not sure. But it looks like mine is regrowing her abdomen hair. Don't worry sweetheart I'll be more precise next time, just for you. I've only been here a short time and I'm already getting tired of the "regulars" here..


To be more accurate, tarantulas have bristles not hair. Hair/fur grows from pores which are found on mammals. Urticating hairs/bristles are not regrown after being kicked. The tarantula has to molt the old exo to replace them.

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## VenomousMe (Sep 23, 2014)

I'm not really that upset. I'm just irritated and maybe a little blunt. And judging from the replies I'm seeing on this forum to newer members from older members, my last comment stands. But don't worry about it brother, it's just the same old thing


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## ratluvr76 (Sep 23, 2014)

VenomousMe said:


> I'm not really that upset. I'm just irritated and maybe a little blunt. And judging from the replies I'm seeing on this forum to newer members from older members, my last comment stands. But don't worry about it brother, it's just the same old thing


it's not the same old thing, and you're more than blunt, you're downright rude. "to my knowledge" means exactly that and I draw my knowledge from hours and hours of researching and reading first hand accounts from people that have been keeping spiders for years. Also, do you think that the issue of regrowth or not of hair on tarantula's is a topic that has not been observed dozens of times by people from the 80's? You have named yourself aptly... VenomousMe.. yes you are Venemous and just as defensive as one of these Tarantula's we all love. No worries, I will not be giving you a chance to sink you're figurative fangs in me again. I wasn't ever caustic towards you, nor did I ever give you a reason to be so defensive towards me. I can see that you are one of those thin skinned people that gets easily offended. 

so with that, my answer also stands, kiss my ass. I am not a brother, I am a sister, and if I were a "brother" I promise you, you are NOT a brother of mine.

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## BobGrill (Sep 23, 2014)

VenomousMe said:


> I'm not really that upset. I'm just irritated and maybe a little blunt. And judging from the replies I'm seeing on this forum to newer members from older members, my last comment stands. But don't worry about it brother, it's just the same old thing


I get that it's frustrating, and some of that does need to change. Still though, I wouldn't let it bother you. I've been in the same boat and been talked down to by many of the more experienced members in the past. The problem is that many of the experienced keepers feel the need to be blunt and not "sugarcoat" things (you'll see that word a lot around here), and while they have good intentions for the hobby, I think many of them don't realize it often does the opposite effect and drives people away from the hobby. Personally, I try not to pick sides and to stay towards the middle of the spectrum. It really goes both ways.

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## ratluvr76 (Sep 23, 2014)

Oumriel said:


> To be more accurate, tarantulas have bristles not hair. Hair/fur grows from pores which are found on mammals. Urticating hairs/bristles are not regrown after being kicked. The tarantula has to molt the old exo to replace them.


Thank you Oumriel.

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## Steve123 (Sep 23, 2014)

The crew here reasonably assumes that a 3-inch A. avic from a pet store is going to be WC from Guyana. Tens of thousands of them leave Guyana each year and a few shipments have gone out recently. About two months ago I received 20 hand picked specimens, and the report I received was that many of those remaining weren’t in good shape. Of those that arrived, about 4 were brown, the color of yours, the rest blue. The brown ones molted within a month or two of arrival and are now blue. Some of the early molters didn’t make it much past molt, despite available water, perhaps the most important element for a spider peri-molt. All had abdomens about the size of yours (I mean your T’s), a fact of wild living . . . none of them having found that unlucky bird I guess. I agree yours seems to be entering premolt, whether or not its condition is optimal. As mentioned above, transition to captivity is key, and it’s more important now to try to mimic Guyana’s environment than at any other time in its future. That your T made it a month bodes well, but no guarantees, particularly because of the WC situation. Minimal disturbance, better temp/humidity control, and close observation as you are doing will hopefully get it through the next few weeks. I second the no-touching suggestion as the molt phase is high risk. Good luck and please drop a follow-up note.

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## Peregrin (Sep 24, 2014)

I've had Ts survive 3 months without anything. Just soil and an rnclosure. No water, nofood, no adjustments to humidity or temp. Basically nothing. If you're worried about it not eating for a week, it could go much longer. Tarantulas eat as much as they can. And they will eat qhenever they want. Offer it a food item once a week and see if it eats. Otherwise, just provide it with water and that will e more than enough. No need to worry. 

Get rid of the toilet paper. If that gets wet,, it will become a breeding ground for mold and bacteria.

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## CABIV (Sep 24, 2014)

Steve123 said:


> The crew here reasonably assumes that a 3-inch A. avic from a pet store is going to be WC from Guyana. Tens of thousands of them leave Guyana each year and a few shipments have gone out recently. About two months ago I received 20 hand picked specimens, and the report I received was that many of those remaining weren’t in good shape. Of those that arrived, about 4 were brown, the color of yours, the rest blue. The brown ones molted within a month or two of arrival and are now blue. Some of the early molters didn’t make it much past molt, despite available water, perhaps the most important element for a spider peri-molt. All had abdomens about the size of yours (I mean your T’s), a fact of wild living . . . none of them having found that unlucky bird I guess. I agree yours seems to be entering premolt, whether or not its condition is optimal. As mentioned above, transition to captivity is key, and it’s more important now to try to mimic Guyana’s environment than at any other time in its future. That your T made it a month bodes well, but no guarantees, particularly because of the WC situation. Minimal disturbance, better temp/humidity control, and close observation as you are doing will hopefully get it through the next few weeks. I second the no-touching suggestion as the molt phase is high risk. Good luck and please drop a follow-up note.


I've been careful now to not disturb it.    I'm still working out how to get the temperature and humidity right without resorting to anything expensive and unnecessary.  I've been busy and have been unable to clear a spot for it in my room.   The humidity has not been stable in there since I removed the damp substrate.   I observed it going from the upper 60%s to the mid 70%s and back in the course of a few hours.    I already have two water dishes in there,   I might need a third (or replace one with a much bigger one).   

I am concerned with vermin and other infections and I can see the way the cage was originally set up would be a breeding ground for it.  

It seems to have taken up residence in a cardboard toilet paper tube I put near the top of the tank, and has webbed both ends thinly.   It definitely comes out (I can see that the web has been disturbed where I presume it climbed out.  

I recognize that if the cardboard tube gets wet it could be a problem,  but it already moved in.   Fortunately, its not super solidly mounted,  so if necessary, I can lift it out.   I don't anticipate having to do that though,  since i've been keeping the cage surfaces dry.

---------- Post added 09-24-2014 at 02:24 PM ----------




Poec54 said:


> It doesn't have a fat abdomen, so it probably isn't premolt.  It should be eating.  The proper set up for Avics is dry substrate and a water bowl, with cross ventilation.  I don't like screen tops as cold and hot drafts can blow in them, plus they're more susceptible to fumes and smoke.  The wood looks good, but it should have some plastic plants so it's not so exposed, that also encourages spinning.
> 
> Why are you handling it?  That adds to it's stress  It needs to adjust to it's new surroundings and Godzilla keeps picking it up.


I've been able to keep the tarantula away from sources of fumes and smoke,  but I can see why it would be vulnerable.   I'll have to figure it out.  

As far as handling it,   I've only had to handle it to move it to "safe" areas.  The way my tank was originally set up,  it was very difficult to reach the bottom without moving things around, and sometimes the tarantula would be sitting in between "A log and a hard place",   so rather than risk hurting it,  I would try to nudge it gently to a spot where there was less of a risk of it being more rudely bumped.  



Poec54 said:


> Your temps are too cool for a wild caught spider that just came from the tropics.  That's part of the problem, on top of all the other adjustments it has to make.
> 
> Last month I helped a local dealer unpack 400 Avic Avics from Guyana, and some looked like yours with dull colors.  Yours probably needs to molt, but first it needs food and water to plump up.


That seems to be the pattern of responses here,   I had been able to maintain it in the 80s earlier,  and it seems now that the fall is starting to set in,  that the temperature are going down with it.    I'm VERY hesitant to use heating pads,  and lamps seem to be also unacceptable.     Again, my room seems to be the best place since the sun shines on it all day (there are "dim" areas that the tarantula would be safe from direct sunlight),  so it generally stays warmer than the rest of the house, 80% of the time. 

Are there any alternative recommendations?  



For reference,  this is the tank it is in,  but it is NO LONGER set up in this fashion.  I removed the live plants, and greatly reduced the substrate.   I will post an updated photo when I get home.


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## Steve123 (Sep 25, 2014)

Humidity in an enclosure is a compromise between temperature, available water, and ventilation. You mentioned the type of lid, which enhances ventilation, but it also allows water vapor and heat to escape. Reducing the surface area would work in your favor, but reduce only enough to maintain target humidity and temperature. As temperature rises, humidity will increase proportionally. Keeping the paper tube dry seems a good compromise for now. Having webbed itself in, it is likely getting ready to molt. Sick Ts don’t do much construction.  I’d venture to guess your T is doing everything normally.

After this issue is over, consider searching the boards for a more suitable set up for arboreal Ts, with better ventilation options. Lots of good advice in the stickies and posts; doesn’t have to be expensive or pretty, just work.  Lots of reasonable heating options too, but they all involve electricity or room heating. Others may have good specific suggestions.


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## freedumbdclxvi (Sep 25, 2014)

VenomousMe said:


> What knowledge do you refer to? Experience? You know this for fact? "to my knowledge" is rather vague man. I've only had one tarantula molt, so I'm not sure. But it looks like mine is regrowing her abdomen hair. Don't worry sweetheart I'll be more precise next time, just for you. I've only been here a short time and I'm already getting tired of the "regulars" here..


Spider biology.  The urticating hairs don't grow in the same way mammalian hair does.  They have "x" amount each molt, and when they are gone, they are gone til the next molt.  If it appears hairs are "growing back", this is due to remaining hairs becoming partially dislodged and covering the abdomen.  (This also leads to a number of posts about people thinking their spiders have "fungal infections".)

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## DrJ (Sep 25, 2014)

freedumbdclxvi said:


> Spider biology.  The urticating hairs don't grow in the same way mammalian hair does.  They have "x" amount each molt, and when they are gone, they are gone til the next molt.  If it appears hairs are "growing back", this is due to remaining hairs becoming partially dislodged and covering the abdomen.  (This also leads to a number of posts about people thinking their spiders have "fungal infections".)


Yes.  This.

And...wow.  I thought we were discussing how an Avic can seemingly go eons without eating.  lol.


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## freedumbdclxvi (Sep 25, 2014)

DrJ said:


> And...wow.  I thought we were discussing how an Avic can seemingly go eons without eating.  lol.


Topics are like pirate rules.  They're more like guidelines.  Lol

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## DrJ (Sep 25, 2014)

freedumbdclxvi said:


> Topics are like pirate rules.  They're more like guidelines.  Lol


I see I see...I think we had our own hijacking fun the other day.  Haha.  Oh, well.  I wasn't having the best day that day anyway, as you may have discerned.  Glad we're still good, though.  Sorry to have taken it out on you.

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## freedumbdclxvi (Sep 25, 2014)

Crap happens, man.  We're all passionate and smartasses here - it's usually all in good fun and for the love of our animals.

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## Poec54 (Sep 25, 2014)

BobGrill said:


> I get that it's frustrating, and some of that does need to change. Still though, I wouldn't let it bother you. I've been in the same boat and been talked down to by many of the more experienced members in the past. The problem is that many of the experienced keepers feel the need to be blunt and not "sugarcoat" things (you'll see that word a lot around here), and while they have good intentions for the hobby, I think many of them don't realize it often does the opposite effect and drives people away from the hobby. Personally, I try not to pick sides and to stay towards the middle of the spectrum. It really goes both ways.


Save your apologies for someone who deserves them.  He's one of the most combative and know-it-all people we've had in a while.  He came out of the starting gate taking swings at members.  We don't need people like him in the hobby.  He's nothing but trouble.

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## cold blood (Sep 25, 2014)

Back to the op...You shouldn't be worrying like you are about number specific humidity, this causes more problems than it solves.  Your water dish(s) will provide more than ample humidity, and looking at an unreliable hygrometer is doing nothing but infusing worry where there should be none.   Just get rid of it.   The sole reason your set-up isn't maintaining humidity IMO is that you have a full screen top.  This takes away from the micro-climate you are trying to achieve.  I would cover the middle and leave room on the sides.  This will reduce the water loss in the air as well as stimulating airflow from the sides.   A better enclosure that has side ventilation would be ideal, cross ventilation is much more important than top ventilation, especially with Avics.   Good luck and I hope this helps.

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## BobGrill (Sep 25, 2014)

Poec54 said:


> Save your apologies for someone who deserves them.  He's one of the most combative and know-it-all people we've had in a while.  He came out of the starting gate taking swings at members.  We don't need people like him in the hobby.  He's nothing but trouble.


Yeah I see that now.


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## freedumbdclxvi (Sep 25, 2014)

Poec54 said:


> Save your apologies for someone who deserves them.  He's one of the most combative and know-it-all people we've had in a while.  He came out of the starting gate taking swings at members.  We don't need people like him in the hobby.  He's nothing but trouble.


Abrasive, certainly.  But he had an inquiry that is a *huge* part of the hobby in my mind - a desire to understand spider biology.  Far too few hobbyists, IMHO, give any thought to this aspect of care.  That is why I offered up two books that,  in my mind, need to be on any serious hobbyist's shelf if your interest in these wonderful creatures goes beyond "I like blue spiders! ".

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## Poec54 (Sep 25, 2014)

freedumbdclxvi said:


> Abrasive, certainly.  But he had an inquiry that is a *huge* part of the hobby in my mind - a desire to understand spider biology.  Far too few hobbyists, IMHO, give any thought to this aspect of care.  That is why I offered up two books that,  in my mind, need to be on any serious hobbyist's shelf if your interest in these wonderful creatures goes beyond "I like blue spiders! ".


He's definitely a smart guy, could be a benefit to the hobby, but his attitude was so bad in the few posts he made, he's just going to be losing his temper and making personal insults more often than anything else.  Maybe he's a 'temperamental genius', but if he can't get along with people, then a chat room is not the place for him.  Good riddance.


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## freedumbdclxvi (Sep 25, 2014)

Oh, i agree thin skin and chat rooms don't mix.  But I think if he takes a look at his replies and comes back a bit less confrontational, he can be a major asset.  Up to him, really.

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## Poec54 (Sep 25, 2014)

freedumbdclxvi said:


> Oh, i agree thin skin and chat rooms don't mix.  But I think if he takes a look at his replies and comes back a bit less confrontational, he can be a major asset.  Up to him, really.


Maybe he was having a bad day.  If he came back with an apology and without a chip on his shoulder, I think we'd all give him a clean slate.  However, based on what we've seen so far in a handful of pasts, I'm not holding my breath.

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## Tim Benzedrine (Sep 25, 2014)

Blue spiders are HIGHLY overrated. 

As far as behaviour goes, this :





> "What knowledge do you refer to? Experience? You know this for fact? "to my knowledge" is rather vague man. I've only had one tarantula molt, so I'm not sure. But it looks like mine is regrowing her abdomen hair. Don't worry sweetheart I'll be more precise next time, just for you. I've only been here a short time and I'm already getting tired of the "regulars" here.. "


  speaks volumes. That's an example of some pretty poor reading comprehension. To my knowledge, prefacing a statement with "To my knowledge" is saying, "Look, I'm trying to be helpful, not suggesting that this is the final word on the topic, just what I have learned elsewhere or experienced, I hope this helps", and such an offering should be accepted with at least a modicum of gratitude. If the info provided is inaccurate or questionable, it can be gently refuted, it shouldn't be responded to with a reply dripping with sarcasm and contempt.

Now back to the original topic in which the discussion was about...uh...hold on, I got this...um....something about some kind of spider, I think...ah, the G. rosea not eating and flipping over on its back and whether or not it is dead, right?

Er, sorry. You know what they say (to the best of my knowledge, anyway) "You can take the boy out of the Watering Hole, but you can't take the Watering Hole out of the boy."

Reactions: Like 6


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## BobGrill (Sep 25, 2014)

It's impossible for blue spiders to be overrated.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Tim Benzedrine (Sep 25, 2014)

Yeah, you are right. I'm just bitter. No matter how long I keep them in an airtight container, mine NEVER turn blue. I can't figure out how people manage it.

Reactions: Like 1


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## BobGrill (Sep 25, 2014)

That's the great thing about tarantulas rigt? You'll always find at least one that looks appealing to you.


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## Fyrwulf (Sep 25, 2014)

Tim Benzedrine said:


> Yeah, you are right. I'm just bitter. No matter how long I keep them in an airtight container, mine NEVER turn blue. I can't figure out how people manage it.


LOL. A. uticans is where it's at if you want one that won't make a credible attempt at killing you.


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## CABIV (Oct 14, 2014)

I figured I'd update this a little.  

Due to damage to the original tank's lid, I decided to just move it to a new tank, rather than try and repair the screen (which seems to be deteriorating of old age,  this tank was very old). 

Prior to using transferring the tarantula to the new tank,  I noticed that the two small water dishes did not seem to be generating enough humidity, even when covered.   Though the hygrometers maybe notoriously innaccurate,  i doubt that they are off significantly,  and I was getting readings in between 47% and 55%.   The tarantula did not seem happy like this either,  it had not left the cardboard tube except once or twice ( I assume, I never saw it leave, only the silk was disturbed) in a period of three weeks.  During this time it appeared to refuse food.  

The tarantula is now housed in a vertically oriented 12"x12"X18" (WxDxH) Exo-Terra tank.   I layered the bottom with hygroballs and some water,  then covered most of it with coconut coir, making sure the water and the coconut choir didn't come in contact.  Even this didn't seem to improve the humidity, so I covered half the top with plastic wrap,  though I'm considering removing this to let it dry out some more in there.  After all, if this hygrometer isn't that accurate, I probably shouldn't rely on it.   I work in the engineering department of a local university, perhaps they have some equipment I could try.  

I'm happy that the tank is now showing an environment more in line with recommendations, but I am concerned that the humidity will attract mites and other pests.  

  I also transferred the water dishes to this tank,  as well as the longer log from the old tank.    I also bought a brand new fake plant that is very bushy and leafy,  hoping this would offer a better hiding area than had been previously available.   

I was able to fit the tank on my desk,  and only a small sliver of the front face of the tank gets direct sunlight from the side during the afternoons. it is otherwise shielded by the hutch on my desk.   My room is a little warmer but there are still cool periods.   Still, I imagine this is consistent with the nightly cool downs in their native environment.

After initially moving the tarantula to the new tank, it appeared more active.  I imagine it was only trying to explore its new home before going dormant again.   However,  other than a few days of it sitting in one place,   it now seems more active.     It has lightly webbed several corners of its tank,  though not a complete structure,  just a  small pads and connections between leaves.    I most frequently find it sitting on the leaves,  or on the door of the tank.   

In fact, one night it seemed terribly active, and even fell from high up a few times, once into the water dish (it made me very nervous since it was rock-like!),  and during this time it did a significant amount of webbing all over the tank but with no obvious goal  (it webbed across the face of the glass doors,  in the lower left front corner,  some leaves in the back right corner).    I have no idea what it was doing, and I am not sure if that was a bad sign or just  a weird night. 

However, it continues to be fine to this day so far as I can tell, so I assume it wasn't hurt.


Curiously,  it appears to be eating, but I have no solid proof.    I placed a cricket in there,  which I could hear and see moving around for a few nights, but then disappeared.    I placed a second cricket in there, and it also disappeared after a few nights.    To my knowledge,  they did not escape, and the new cage is far more escape proof than the old one. 

That said, I have not found either a body or a bolus to confirm this yet,   but I don't want to disturb the tarantula by digging around in there. 

I decided not to put the cardboard tube back in there with it.   Instead, I might seek out a PVC pipe, or something that is a little more robust.     In the meantime,   the Tarantula  seems to be hiding in the leaves quite well, and I'm hoping this is an adequate hide for the time being.  

Here is a photo of the current set up.  The tarantula can be seen on the center left-



The Tarantula doesn't seem any worse for wear either,   and I haven't spotted anything to make me think it is sick.    I am curious though,  whether or not  it really will molt soon.     This thing excels at sending mixed signals.


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## Kina (Sep 2, 2015)

I think the temp is a tad low, mine does very well with a lot of humidity, and we have a naturally good (if not too hot) temperature, being as we live in a very arid and hot place in Cal. (I think 75-90 degrees is recommended)? I don't handle mine (but to each his/her own)My Avic avic. takes her crickets from the tongs, VERY ferociously! She's otherwise very gentle. I've tried cockroaches, and she just did not pay any attention to them. Mine loved superworms, I think it's the fact that they move a lot, AND maybe you could try that, off the tongs (or they will bury themselves quickly into the substrate. But just to get her to eat and then fatten her up. Not as a staple diet. Also, I'd use a few more inches of substrate, 2-3, so you can dampen it to increase humidity, along with a large water bowl. Mostly, I would not be so sure it doesn't have a mite infection! Although the treatment is difficult, look up "candy-dish" and how to treat mites on her. They could be hiding in her leg joints, book lungs, who knows. Good luck!

---------- Post added 09-01-2015 at 11:47 PM ----------

Your set-up looks good (Avics don't need hides though, just leafy plants, as you have, stuff to climb on.) and, your T looks better, I believe she/he is eating! I don't always find the bolus either, but I notice you have what looks like moss on the boto, know wonder!. Don't worry, looks fine!


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## Poec54 (Sep 2, 2015)

Kina said:


> My Avic avic. takes her crickets from the tongs, VERY ferociously! on her.



There's a risk in that.  They can break a fang on tongs.


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## Pancakensyrup (Sep 2, 2015)

We have an avicularia only had it a month....no molt yet so no idea if it's a he or she lol 

When we first bought it we put the cage horizontal with soil substrate waterbowl wooden arch peice of cork bark and fake plants....she would sit up at the top of the tank and spin a little which would, D be destroyed when we had to feed or spray so we tipped it vertical fitted a piece of plastic to keep the substrate in....he's spun like a funnel Web up top and seems to spend most time in there and hasn't eaten in 3 weeks....temp is low to mid 70's and sprayed daily
Added a photo or 2 of the new set up


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## Poec54 (Sep 2, 2015)

Pancakensyrup said:


> We have an avicularia only had it a month....no molt yet so no idea if it's a he or she



You don't need to wait for a molt; I've never done it.  Most species can be vent sexed fairly accurately at 2-3".   Yours is big enough.

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## cold blood (Sep 2, 2015)

Keep the enclosure vertical.   You need to make some changes.  The wood needs to be bigger, so its closer to the top (where it will want to live)...and you need to add A LOT more plants surrounding the TOP of the wood.   Also misting is completely unnecessary as its effects last basically 20 minutes or so.   The water dish will do all the work in providing humidity and the sub should be kept dry.   A couple times a month you can spray LIGHTLY, but only the webbing, nothing else...this is for convenient drinking.

Ignore everything you have previously read in "care-sheets", they do not offer good advice and are the root cause for too many "my dead avic" threads.

Does that enclosure have cross ventilation?   This is the single most important thing when keeping this genus....which care sheets almost always fail to even mention.

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## Pancakensyrup (Sep 3, 2015)

The tank has a mess front which can be replaced once shes molted her pinks gone dark and she keeps to her web and a circular vent on the top


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## sdsnybny (Sep 3, 2015)

Where did you find the variable opening vents? I've been looking but no luck.


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## dementedlullaby (Sep 3, 2015)

Careful with that mesh. I've heard stories of spiders "chewing" through it. 

That plastic vent is pretty cool. I'd like some of those. Although it would be preferable if it was at the side instead of on the top .


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## Pancakensyrup (Sep 3, 2015)

The vent came with the tank lol and it's only on the top because it's a horizontal tank....had to doctor it to make it vertical lol going to replace the front lol


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## cold blood (Sep 3, 2015)

I'd be looking for an enclosure with more cross ventilation personally.

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## Pancakensyrup (Sep 4, 2015)

cold blood said:


> Ignore everything you have previously read in "care-sheets", they do not offer good advice and are the root cause for too many "my dead avic" threads.
> 
> Does that enclosure have cross ventilation?   This is the single most important thing when keeping this genus....which care sheets almost always fail to even mention.


Is this true of care sheets for other genus? Until now that's where I've got most of my info from lol


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## cold blood (Sep 4, 2015)

Pancakensyrup said:


> Is this true of care sheets for other genus? Until now that's where I've got most of my info from lol


yup, they're not to be relied on.  From now on get your info here and stop perusing care-sheets.

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## Poec54 (Sep 4, 2015)

cold blood said:


> yup, they're not to be relied on.  From now on get your info here and stop perusing care-sheets.



Care sheets have done more harm than good.  Unfortunately many of the writers have little first hand experience with the species they're writing about.

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## Pancakensyrup (Sep 4, 2015)

Poec54 said:


> Care sheets have done more harm than good.  Unfortunately many of the writers have little first hand experience with the species they're writing about.


Damn that means I'm a total noob....get ready for all kinds of stupid noob questions lol 

With the avic we keep the sub dry water bowl topped up plants up the top of the viv need a bigger log up the viv and spray the Web lightly every few days...and get some cross ventilation going...new viv or would drilling half a dozen small holes on either side work? Will start new threads for the other 2 lol


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## cold blood (Sep 4, 2015)

Pancakensyrup said:


> Damn that means I'm a total noob....get ready for all kinds of stupid noob questions lol
> 
> With the avic we keep the sub dry water bowl topped up plants up the top of the viv need a bigger log up the viv and spray the Web lightly every few days...and get some cross ventilation going...new viv or would drilling half a dozen small holes on either side work? Will start new threads for the other 2 lol


If you can drill ventilation in the sides, that's a good option.  Focus most of the vents in the top half, as that's where the t will reside most of the time.

And yeah, we could tell:wink:    That's what the site is for, to answer those questions....just keep in mind, most questions have at some point, been answered, so often the search function will get you answers rather quickly.


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## JerkyRice (Apr 3, 2019)

CABIV said:


> I figured I'd update this a little.
> 
> Due to damage to the original tank's lid, I decided to just move it to a new tank, rather than try and repair the screen (which seems to be deteriorating of old age,  this tank was very old).
> 
> ...


Just curious as to how this turned out (hoping you’re still active). I’ve had similar concerns with my Avic, also purchased from a pet store (now that I am more knowledgeable, I won’t do that again).


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## Vanisher (Apr 3, 2019)

Poec54 said:


> Care sheets have done more harm than good.  Unfortunately many of the writers have little first hand experience with the species they're writing about.


I have found some very good caresheets! Oh now i remember, i wrote them!

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Tenebrarius (Apr 3, 2019)

>me finding this thread funny preparing to write a long essay about my avic and about their care
>me finding out after being engrossed this thread has rigor mortis


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