# Very active betta fish



## AviculariaLover

The other day I decided to get a beta fish to keep on my desk in my dorm room. I've had bettas before at home, usually each in a really big 'goldfish bowl', and they would just float around, really lazy. This time I have an approx. 3 gallon tank with a pleco and some nice decorations and a small bubbler (I had feeder fish in it for my waterbug for a while).

So I went to the pet store and saw the usual suspects in their respective super tiny decorative bowls (theres no way a fish could be happy in a 3"x2"x4" oval glass bowl!). Obviously they didnt move much. But then I saw, against the wall, all the large tanks. And there was one 10 gallon tank that a beautiful black/grey betta had all to itself. And it was swimming around all over, like it really owned the place. Seemed to actually have some personality as opposed to the usual brain-dead look of the other bettas, so I took him home.

He is super active, just like any other normal fish, swimming around, occaisonally staying still for a while. Loves to explore the fake plants. He sometimes teases the pleco. And he REALLY hates his reflection! I put up a mirror by the side of the tank a few times and he went nuts, flaring his gills. He also attacks me if I stick my finger in the water.

Has anyone else had really active, angry bettas? All the bettas I've ever had/seen have been so lazy and unresponsive, this one seems like quite a character. Not as colorful but beautiful in his own subtle hues, and personality.

Do you think that perhaps our perception of what is acceptable as a habitat for a betta (tiny bowls) is really cramping their lives, so that even while they can survive, they would be happier in a larger, more stimulating environment? Or maybe mine is just weird


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## Never_2_Old

Oh yeah,
My Betta is in a ten gallon tank with a water fall type filter and decorations.  He also has company...four tiny cory catfish and a small loach and he is very active!
He will occasionally threaten his own reflection. He takes time every day to bully the catfish just a little to make sure everyone knows he is the boss.  Cory Catfish are good company for Betta's because the don't have any bright colors or long flowing fins which might cause the betta to attack it.


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## Mushroom Spore

AviculariaLover said:


> Do you think that perhaps our perception of what is acceptable as a habitat for a betta (tiny bowls) is really cramping their lives, so that even while they can survive, they would be happier in a larger, more stimulating environment?


Everything I've heard, from people who've kept MANY bettas over the years on another forum, indicates exactly this. Filters, and probably the added oxygen from the bubbler, as opposed to the stagnant grossness of a fishbowl? Wouldn't YOU be much more active and happy?


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## SkorpNtrants

just keep in mind, that they do poorly with strong currents, with their fins.

although males tend to be more beautiful, I love females more for the fact that you can have quite a few of them together.. well generally


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## Arachnophilist

I have 4 bettas 2 regular 2 crowntail.. all of them live in bowl setups. I found even in a tank mine liked to stay at the top and try to make their bubble nests.. mine in the bowls are all very active and happy.. get excited when you come near them and will happily strike your finger if you get it too close to the water. I have seen websites suggesting tanks are a "happier" setup for bettas. I personally havent found them to be any better.. I find what makes the bettas "happy" in my house is getting attention and having appropriate water changes.. and of course nice thawed bloodworms


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## verry_sweet

I don’t like those little bowls…Bettas are tropical’s and if you give them nice clean Heated water they should be active if you keep them in cool water then they wont do much at all.


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## joseofsa

only dumb pet store people think a tiny bowel is a good home for a betta. i do not know how that myth got started. but anyone who thinks that should not own pets at all. ohh i breed show quality bettas and love the little guys.
here is one of the males i will be entering in the next local show. 
sorry had to take down pic (see reason below)


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## Arachnophilist

that was a nice shot! thanks


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## GailC

beautiful betta, is he a delta tail? what would you call that color?


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## bugmankeith

The myth got started that in Thailand bettas live in flooded buffalo hoof prints, I guess after a heavy rain when the rice patty fields flooded, and then the roads dry out leaving puddles from the buffalo prints, and the bettas get stranded in them. Still that's the wild, this is a pet store, they can afford a bigger tank!

Anyway a betta in front of a mirror will get very excited, and normally an active betta is a healthy one, although yours will be much happier in a larger tank, like you have him in now.


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## Arachnophilist

thats a very interesting little piece of information. okay then seeing as Im not doing a good job with my bettas what is the tank setup suggestion from everyone here?


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## joseofsa

at the time of the pic he was only 3 1/2 months and was super delta now he is a over halfmoon beauty. marbled copper is his strain. a 5 gallon setup is what i use for my males but i would say 3+ gallon setup will do. nice story! makes lot-o-sence.


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## Arachnophilist

okay thanks for the info.


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## joseofsa

and just to be clear i only meant to insult the pet store people who give this info.


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## Arachnophilist

lol no worries.. either way I know my bettas are happy and healthy. but I would like to set them up as best I can. thanks for your help. and do you have a website with your fish? I would be interested in seeing what you are doing


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## GailC

I have my betta in a 5 gallon tank. I used to keep them in my community tank but they would always die within 6-9 months. I've had my big boy for almost 2 years now


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## AneesasMuse

The bigger the better... have you ever seen the size of a "rice paddy" or the adjoining irrigation "ditches" and streams? HUGE! 
Another common "myth" is their preference or stamina for room temp water... just isn't true. I keep my bettas at 78-80 unless they are CT (crowntail) and then it's 82-84. Use a filter in the tank and do regular water changes... they don't live... ahem, they won't thrive in stagnant water either. 

They are individuals just like any other creature, so what one likes, the other may not appreciate... like bubble wands and strong currents (I have a couple that "dance" in their bubbler and 2 that really enjoy riding the currents), types of food, huge spaces vs. medium sized spaces (I had one gorgeous Black Devil HM male that was afraid of a tank larger than 2-3g... he would get sick and lay on the bottom.... RIP Nero *death not related to tank), foods, tank mates, etc. 
A 5 or 10g tank, space allowing in your dorm room, would be a nice set up for him. A couple otocinclus, cuz your space is limited with #s of fish (inch per gallon "rule"), or maybe 3-4 cories in the 10g (remember, cories like to school so 5 and up is best actually). One of my giants was very fond of his snail friend, also a big boy... Shadow and Reka. I lost Shadow to old age and Reka is about to be a father for the first time with me. 

Anyhow, bottom line... Bigger is BETTER in this situation 



P.s. NEVER feed your betta kid "freeze dried" anything! It can kill him by a very slow and painful death... first constipation, then swim bladder disease or worse. Feed Hikari frozen bloodworms, brine shrimp (on cleaning day and only as a treat... they're messy and rich), daphnia... OR feed LIVE foods like blackworms from a clean source (an LFS that sells "clean" worms), brine, bloodworms, daphnia, etc. A good staple pellet is the Hikari brand Bio Gold, 2-3 at each meal (I feed once a day for 6 days and fast 1). I also feed my bigger kids... the giants... Hikari "baby" Cichlid pellets (they fit in their mouths just fine) The reason I reccommend Hikari brand is for the lack of parasites and their sterilization/packaging processes... they cannot be compared. And ask if your live worms are from California Worms or something like that (I'll find the exact name and post it back here) Their worms are also "clean" and I have used them for the years that I've been breeding SQ Bettas.


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## joseofsa

I have been working on a site but i just never have time. with 30 active breeding pairs, 65 single males and females, and some 600+ fry i have a lot of mouths to feed and so little time to do so. plus i have reptiles and a few scatetred arachnids in my house somewhere. lol.
@aneesas  most of your info is right on the money and makes you sound like a seasoned breeder of bettas. im very impressed. however freeze dried blood worms is a staple diet around these waters and puts all of my breeding stock in breeding condition. and freeze dried daphnia helps keep my fish regular. and this is the case with most of the betta keepers i know.
well im glad to see some betta people here
ohh and nice apache VT waldo yeah most fish nip at the slower ones in the tank so a betta would be picked on alot.


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## AneesasMuse

Ask Victoria Parnell or Phil Lafferty or some of the ol' school breeders what they think of Freeze Dried... and compare life spans, etc. 

To each his own, but I've seen the results of feeding FD anything. When I had the time and used to moderate on a Betta Forum, we saw numerous cases with dying fish... cause? always FD in their diets, among other factors. 

Your "active" breeders would condition much better on their natural diets... LIVE is best. I keep hatcheries and cultures going at all times for my fish, even when I'm not breeding.


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## AviculariaLover

Thanks for all of your input! I tried to get some pictures of my betta but he hates the camera! Started fluffing his gills and swimming around like crazy when I got it near the tank. This is the best shot I could get... he looks much prettier in better lighting and the front is much darker than it appears in this photo. I love the muted colors, I've always had red/blue bettas and I wanted to go for something different. And I love the neon tips on the front long fins  And his beautiful blue eyes.


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## joseofsa

yes indeed to each his own. However most of my info was given to me from V.parnell. she supplied me my first pair of HM's and continued to do so until recently. she has left the hobby for a bit due to life problems. my "active" breeders as you put happen to be very succesful and each has his/her own site people such as jim sonnier and ms. faith of bettatalk. also i would like to add they each recomend FD and hint that it is better than frozen. advanced studies have been made and found that because FD is so rapid it locks in most nutrients where as frozen is slower and the thaw and refreeze process helps lose nutrients. no doubt live is the best but who wants to culture mosquito larva? daphnia grow too slow, brine shrimp #1 is VERY unnatural and causes swim bladder disease if feed too much and #2 has a high mortality rate, black worms are scarce and even though stores claim clean it is still a risk. i just realised that you were talking about hikari pellets? pellets are the worst thing you can feed a betta, they swell up in the fish and cause the fish to feel miserable until they digest them? that knowledge has been around for many many years? at least 10+. i lose fish to age or genetics. ohh and phil has been out since 05. and frozen food is linked to dropsy now. i say it was poor care from the owners. you should read up the advances on the IBC site. mabye there was a time where FD caused death but that is long and gone as FD is mostly accepted as a good staple. ohh and i have been keeping betats for 9 years and do not remember that at all.
-Jose
i think if we need continue on this topic it goes to pm.


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## joseofsa

nice little guy. well if i had known people liked bettas here i would have started selling my stock here a while ago. here is a male i will sell here in a few weeks
Halfmoon to over half moon male multicolored 4 months old when i sell him





PLZ do not copy the pic or at least give credit to me.


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## Arachnophilist

so is the flake/freeze dried bloodworm combo suitable as a staple along with the frozen bloodworms? I usually go back and forth with the two over the course of the week.. every couple days I just let them have the thawed worms whereas the rest of the time it is the freezedried and flake combo.


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## joseofsa

sounds like your betta is in heaven.


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## AviculariaLover

Wow that fish is beautiful joseofsa! I wish they had fish like those in pet stores, hehe. How much would a fish like that cost? Im going to keep trying to get a better shot of mine. Black/brown may not be flashy but I like it


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## joseofsa

if your lucky $25 but i got the mom and dad at 30 each but if you breed them like me they pay for themselves.  Ohh i LOVE veiltails if it was not for the VT we would not have halfmoons and such i alway manage to rescue one when i go to the pet store. that is a chocolate mustard gas and is indeed beautiful in its own respect. i dislike the fact that in the show comunity people look down on VT's.


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## verry_sweet

joseofsa said:


> PLZ do not copy the pic or at least give credit to me.


WOW  Now that’s a pretty fish. My Betta came from the boardwalk  they have hundreds at game stands and if you throw this in to that you get a Betta. Very sad!!!


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## joseofsa

i dislike that too but a rescue is a rescue IMO


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## verry_sweet

Actually I talked the girl in to giving him to me I made her feel really guilty about working there :evil: haha. It was a friends little sister. I would never give such a place business.


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## joseofsa

LOL yeah good point. luckyly we have not had a carnival for a while here except for the rodeo but i never see that game there.


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## verry_sweet

joseofsa said:


> LOL yeah good point. luckyly we have not had a carnival for a while here except for the rodeo but i never see that game there.


They have quite a few stands at the shore here…..they are fairly new only started seeing them around in the last couple years.


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## Arachnophilist

joseofsa said:


> sounds like your betta is in heaven.


AH HA HA except for the big old bowl it lives in right? haha


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## Arachnophilist

heres some shots I took of my Bettas.

Betta 1











Betta 2











Betta 3






Betta 4











thats it.. unfortunately Betta 3 was harder to catch  not easy takin shots of these guys!


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## joseofsa

wow that is the purest green from a pet store fish i have ever seen! great find. all of them except #1 look GREAT looks like he has seen some battle in his past, porbably from when he was growing up at the fish farm. for being in fish goldfish homes they look happy and active.


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## AneesasMuse

I hope you do some research on your new Betta and he lives a long and healthy life for you. 

joseofsa, your condescending tone is uncalled for here. I don't appreciate it, as I am sure there are others who don't. It always amazes me how rude people can be while they "hide" behind their pc. I wasn't rude to you or insulting in any way. My life doesn't revolve around breeding fish either, so please forgive me if I don't go and spend hours reading the IBC site for "updates". Btw, you were the one that called your fish "active" breeders, not me. 

Enjoy your fish!


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## Nich

bugmankeith said:


> The myth got started that in Thailand bettas live in flooded buffalo hoof prints, I guess after a heavy rain when the rice patty fields flooded, and then the roads dry out leaving puddles from the buffalo prints, and the bettas get stranded in them. Still that's the wild, this is a pet store, they can afford a bigger tank!
> 
> Anyway a betta in front of a mirror will get very excited, and normally an active betta is a healthy one, although yours will be much happier in a larger tank, like you have him in now.


They live in ricefields, and actually spend a portion of the year in a mud puddle and are exposed to others in the flood seasons and most of the males kill eachother......lol. They seem to fair better in a planted or fake planted tank with room....sound like a firey little betta.


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## Nich

AneesasMuse said:


> I hope you do some research on your new Betta and he lives a long and healthy life for you.
> 
> joseofsa, your condescending tone is uncalled for here. I don't appreciate it, as I am sure there are others who don't. It always amazes me how rude people can be while they "hide" behind their pc. I wasn't rude to you or insulting in any way. My life doesn't revolve around breeding fish either, so please forgive me if I don't go and spend hours reading the IBC site for "updates". Btw, you were the one that called your fish "active" breeders, not me.
> 
> Enjoy your fish!


:worship: she has spoken....silence falls upon the thread.....eeeeewwwweeeeeh weeeeh.....ch ch ch chhhh ch ch ch chhhh.....


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## Arachnophilist

yeah thanks.. the fiorst one isnt actually beat up at all he just has some deformities in the tips of his fins.. but that is okay I still love him  if anyone looks crappy IMO its the last one haha he was a walmart rescue.  and yes I was very pleased to find my nice green one.. it was super teeny and young when I got it so I am happy it grew well under my care.


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## Nich

AneesasMuse said:


> Ask Victoria Parnell or Phil Lafferty or some of the ol' school breeders what they think of Freeze Dried... and compare life spans, etc.
> 
> To each his own, but I've seen the results of feeding FD anything. When I had the time and used to moderate on a Betta Forum, we saw numerous cases with dying fish... cause? always FD in their diets, among other factors.
> 
> Your "active" breeders would condition much better on their natural diets... LIVE is best. I keep hatcheries and cultures going at all times for my fish, even when I'm not breeding.


Wow......Im going to goto all my breeders right now and relay this breaking post. You are truly a cornerstone of the entire betta community....may we create a statue of you in a the shadow of a wanning moon....and christen it on the opening day of betta breeding season to bask in the glory that is the almighty betta god....I really do worship the betta god. he is forgiving and perfect in every way. his only son died for us on the filter intake for all to see. Such compasion....such sacrifice.


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## joseofsa

first off i have no tone but a misunderstanding in the reading of your text is what happened. i thought you were talking about my friends who breed bettas not my fish who breed. so i do apologise for getting defencive in that respect. I do not spend hours reading updates i am active in the hobby while the new finds take place so i learn as i go. My life does revolve around breeding bettas and reptiles that is how i make my living so being well informed in the most efficent ways of rasing my animals is a must. I am not talking out my butt sure i can understand if you left the hobby many have but things have changed and your info, no matter the intent could and would lead some to believe they are slowly killing their pets because some outdated info has been spread. also, like with most hobbies these days it is not cheap and makeing them believe they should buy expencive frozen food or expencive name brand foods as the only way to go is not right.
maam if i may, i am not "hideing" nor have i ever hidden if a-boards could be a big face to face meeting i would be there and say what i said to your face. i am not trying to sound tough because its pointless over the net 90% of the people who talk can't walk the walk. im in the 10% and it sounds like you are too. so i felt i was not rude but you did so i apologise to you and yes i will admit that maybe if i read the post twice maybe we would be in a friendly mood instead of being aggresive.
secondly... nich... i already got in trouble for being rude today so plz refrain from typeing anything for the next few months...maybe a year...plz
any-who i do hope the slate can be scrubed clean aneesas.


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## joseofsa

yeah i hate that when i go and see the bettas at the pet stores i noticed that they are either very young or very old never a good looking middle aged one. and i never said crappy.  keep up what your doin because it looks like it works very well for you.


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## Arachnophilist

well to be honest.. until just now I didnt know where to get anything but petstore bettas.. I am actually quite interested in seeing these amazing fish you have!! do you have any solid black crowntails? I would like one of those..


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## funnylori

One of my favorite places to go gawgaw over bettas is www.bettatalk.com the site is a bit weird to navigate sometimes, but there are some gems in there!


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## Nich

joseofsa said:


> nich... i already got in trouble for being rude today so plz refrain from typeing anything for the next few months...maybe a year...plz
> any-who i do hope the slate can be scrubed clean aneesas.


You werent rude, you were realistic. My comment was not aimed at you. I've read posts of yours on other sites as well as anne's.....but i fail to see how you want me to refrain. Your the one thats been bashedd for being blunt. I guess retail and actual LFS work has brainwashed me over the years.


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## joseofsa

i am a man who loves sarcasm but found yours out there. yet again a reading error almost got me in trouble again. let me end this sorry nich. i will not respond to another comment until i fully understand the point of the post.=)


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## Binky/Carol

I have a blue female betta that I keep in a glass jug with a swiss cheese philendron vine that I am growing..

I read 90% of the posts.. and I think although most of you mean well...
Here is a bit of information from a great website, and you may be causing more harm than good putting your males in larger tanks..


http://aquariumlore.blogspot.com/2006/03/betta-siamese-fighting-fish.html
Habitat/Care: 
To fully understand their needs it is important to become familiar with their native habitat. Bettas originate in the shallow waters in Thailand (formerly called Siam, hence their name), Indonesia, Malaysia, Vietnam, and parts of China. They proliferate rice paddies, shallow ponds, and even slow moving streams.

Although many fish keepers are aware that Bettas come from shallow waters, a key factor that is often overlooked is the water temperature. These countries are tropical, which means the water temperature is quite warm - often reaching into the 80's. Bettas thrive on heat, and will become increasingly listless when the water temperature falls below 75 degrees F. Water temperature is perhaps the biggest argument against keeping a betta in a tiny bowl (which cannot readily be heat controlled).

An organ called a labyrinth allows bettas to breathe air from the water surface, thus permitting them to live in water with low oxygen levels. Because of this ability aquarists often keep bettas in small containers, but ideally a 3-gallon filtered tank or more is better and allows the bettas to stretch their fins. Even though Bettas do well in waters low in dissolved oxygen, that does not mean they require less oxygen than other fish. Studies have shown the betta that are denied access to the water surface to breathe died even though the water is contains high levels of oxygen. Therefore, betta must have access to the water surface to breath air directly from the atmosphere

Optimally the water for keeping healthy Bettas should be soft, warm, with a neutral to slightly acidic pH. Water movement should be kept to a minimum, which means that power filters and powerheads are not suitable. Bettas may be kept in a community tank as long as the water conditions are met, and if no aggressive or fin-nipping fish are present. However, only one male may be kept in each aquarium, unless they are separated by a barrier.


Mixing with other fishes:
Males must not be kept together, otherwise they will fight - sometimes to the death. Females can be kept together, but can be territorial. This is often a difficult fish to mix in a community tank. Many fish will nip on the long flowing fins, even some species which do not usually fin-nip. On the other hand, some bettas can be aggressive to fish they see as rivals (such as male guppies with their fancy tails). 

And from Wikipedia:
Bettas are anabantoids, which means they can breathe atmospheric air thanks to a unique organ called the labyrinth. This accounts for their ability to thrive in low-oxygen water conditions that would kill most other fish, such as rice paddies, slow-moving streams, drainage ditches, and large puddles. [2]

The various bettas can be divided into two groups, based on their spawning behaviour: some build bubble nests, like B. splendens, while others are mouthbrooders, like B. picta. The mouthbrooding species are sometimes called "pseudo bettas", and are sometimes speculated to have evolved from the nest-builders in an adaptation to their fast-moving stream habitats.[3]


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## joseofsa

Binky/Carol said:


> I have a blue female betta that I keep in a glass jug with a swiss cheese philendron vine that I am growing..
> 
> I read 90% of the posts.. and I think although most of you mean well...
> Here is a bit of information from a great website, and you may be causing more harm than good putting your males in larger tanks..
> 
> 
> http://aquariumlore.blogspot.com/2006/03/betta-siamese-fighting-fish.html
> Habitat/Care:
> To fully understand their needs it is important to become familiar with their native habitat. Bettas originate in the shallow waters in Thailand (formerly called Siam, hence their name), Indonesia, Malaysia, Vietnam, and parts of China. They proliferate rice paddies, shallow ponds, and even slow moving streams.
> 
> Although many fish keepers are aware that Bettas come from shallow waters, a key factor that is often overlooked is the water temperature. These countries are tropical, which means the water temperature is quite warm - often reaching into the 80's. Bettas thrive on heat, and will become increasingly listless when the water temperature falls below 75 degrees F. Water temperature is perhaps the biggest argument against keeping a betta in a tiny bowl (which cannot readily be heat controlled).


I stoped reading here...


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## joseofsa

ok im guessing you assume we mean keeping our male bettas in one big tank correct? no we are discusing the fact individual bettas need bigger homes because too small a container is just mean and cruel... the article you posted even backs us up so... i dont know where else to go on this subject... everyone who wants one knows male bettas fight. even pet store people know this hence the name "siamese fighting fish" i know you meant well but plz know what you are talking about. and i hope you are feeding the betta and not one of those idiots who bought the betta plant thing which states "do not feed your fish this is a small ecosystem and the fish eats the bacteria and roots and the plant is fed through the fishs' waste!".


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## AviculariaLover

I think the main point is these fish need at least something larger than those silly bowls most people use. 

I have a friend who kept a betta in one of those plant set ups and didn't feed it and she claimed it was doing just fine... until after a few months it died.

My tank is approx 3 gallons (rectangular, so theres plenty of surface area) with a small bubbler and my room gets very warm. My lamp is also near the tank and it heats up the water a bit. My betta seems quite happy. If I had more room and money I would get a larger tank and try to provide a more natural set up with some plants... I will probably do that when I bring him home from school in the spring. I have a betta at home thats been kept in a large bowl and I want to revamp that set up as well, I think too often these fish are used merely as room accessory and not a special fish that may survive in poor conditions but could really thrive in the right environment.

One question about live food: the pet store I go to sells starter kits for brine shrimp, would this be worth looking into as a treat, not worth my time or not recommended?


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## joseofsa

Nah... when they hatch they are way to small for an adult betta. but brine shrimp as a once in a while treat is very recomended as the exoskeleton makes a rather good laxitive for fish and its the same thing with daphnia so once in a while i order live daphnia or brine shrimp from my pet store. if you want a project sure go for it and raise some brine shrimp i did it once and i looked at it as raiseing sea monkeys but then gave the few that lived names and could not feed them to the fish.


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## joseofsa

i thought i answered last night but cannot find my post? no i do not raise crown tails nor do i have any solid black fish because solid black females are infertile. if you want to have a HM i have one he is kinda old(7 months) but would make a good starter. he is a breeder so if you want to try breeding him he will know how to treat a lady and i will walk you through everything. my good camera is dead(the one i took the first two pics with) but i might have a digi cam somewhere and if you are intrested i might be able to get you a pic.(this is to arachno btw)


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## GailC

joseofsa, you make me want to get a nice half moon... I managed to talk myself out of it awhile back because I didn't want to have one shipped from overseas but if I can find the one I like just maybe I'll go ahead with the shipping.
Are you by chance in the states? I can't remember the color I was looking at, something like black orchid? it was all black with bright blue between the rays. I'll check aquabid.


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## joseofsa

yup yup black orchid is a beautiful color morph unfortunately my orchids passed from age a few months ago. i have yet to see a pair i like. yes i am from the states. i tried to make my own orchid line but i got that marbled copper line and hit the floor running when i saw how beautiful they turned out. i was just about to cease all major breeding and focus on my chemeleons for a bit but it seems i have a little comunity who is intresed in buying some bettas. i mean i had to empty my pm box this morning from requests. i have about 600 and change of fry growing up but most im keeping or giveing to other breeders who helped me out with my lines. hmm.


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## AneesasMuse

joseofsa, I accept your apology and I apologize myself if I was insulting to you in any way. These boards are for people to find help and others with the same hobbies, etc. ...there's no purpose or benefit for foul behaviour. 

waldo, it sounds like you are speaking of blue lace or black orchid maybe. Two of my Plakad giants were this phenotype... here's Shukr with Mar before he decided to tear a chunk out of her (she died later, as a result)







This photo is from Shukr and Shadow's breeder, I assume. This should be Shadow, the brother.








The color isn't true in the second pic, but gives the idea; and the pic I took was with my old obsolete HP... not great either, but the actual color is closer. 

A year ago, when I was still involved on a larger scale, Duen and Watt were great sellers on AB (aquabid.com) and where I got my giants and a few others. If they haven't changed their seller names a zillion times, try Grandbetta... the fisheries... Cherry betta... and my memory fails me now. There's quite a few names left, but they escape me. It seems like Betta_center and maybe Zorro something had some nice fish and were newer, but showing some promise in their stock. Zorro is stateside too, so that would be less shipping costs and worry. Jim Sonnier had nice stock once upon a time, but he was recovering from hurricanes last time I was buying. 

Whoever you buy from, you will be amazed at the beauty of a nice HM or DT, my all time favorite... besides of course, my beloved Plakads. They're the only ones I keep in my tanks now.


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## GailC

Yup, black orchid is was I was after I just checked aqua bid and didn't see any I really liked, most are either too chocolaty colored or have too much red on them.

I do like these ones thought.
http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettashm&1169199923

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettashm&1168830622

Shadow is incredible, I don't see many that are a true purple like that. I would love to have one like him.


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## joseofsa

ok i just set these guys up to spawn. if you will be intrested in buying a baby from this pair plz pm me and i will reserve you a male or female or pair or trio(1 guy 2 girls)
possible colors: marbled, copper ,copper melano with copper wash, melano, marbled butterfly melano/copper(like the dad) mid march i will show off the babies here kinda like an arachnoboards exclusive. price from 15-25 if they have spawns like before.   
dad






mom


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## joseofsa

i never took a likeing to plakads much for some reason??? im weird. some of the brightest colored bettas are plakads. i do love giants though a almost 5 inch betta is a very impressive sight! but most only hit 3 1/2 inches.
coolness thanks for accepting.


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## AneesasMuse

waldo, you will be hard pressed to find them without "red wash" ...as you can see very well in Shadow's pic, he had red on him and the 2 females had it worse than that!! (I wasn't pleased, but it was done and I worked with it) This isnt' to say that it's impossible, though. I guess, most breeders keep the best of the lot for themselves or they try to get a ridiculous price for the "perfect" fish. However, the red can be selectively bred out of them... with lots of time... and that was my goal. (My health prevents me from doing hours worth of water changes and multiple daily feedings of 100s now, hence the reason I am out of it for the most part) I still "dream" of the perfect black orchid, a truly super black (not paper sack brown... BLACK!) and a very dark "fertile" female.


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## AneesasMuse

I guess my affinity for the Plakad is the attitude along with the agility due to less finnage.... have you ever tried to swim in a formal gown?   Their speed and form while maneuvering a tank... it's just awesome! One of my "super black" Plakads, Umar, used to mesmerize me and the Aneesa diva (cat) almost every evening... we would sit and watch him. Just sit and watch him swim. He was amazing... and a great dad, too. (I still have some of his kids in my tanks)

When I bred him to Luna (a platinum), I was dreaming of this Suporn specimen:







This is an absolutely gorgeous fish, in my eyes!


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## joseofsa

yes red wash is the most annoying thing in the world!!!  i am pround to say i charge what the fish is worth! and with me i let you show the fish as your own i just ask that you inform me of any awards.


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## joseofsa

that is a good looking fish! is it a dragon? gorgous! if i found a plakad like that i would buy it no questions asked. is it just me or do american fish on aquabid suck??? i hate to say that but i went looking on it today and i am disapointed and they are chargeing premium prices for fish i would give away... and i have been known on occasion to swim in a gown cough.


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## AneesasMuse

I won't ask about the gown   but yes, I agree about the american fish. The only reason I mentioned Zorro was due to a personal friend that breeds and he swears the fish are better in person and the transaction was very professional and smooth. The only american fish I purchased were from VP and well... no further comment in public.  

Oh, and that fish was not listed as a "dragon", but a BF instead... and it's a pretty old pic from Suporn's site. When I inquired about purchasing it, he (the fish) wasn't available. Apparently, others were drooling and flipping out the plastic faster and moreso than I was.


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## joseofsa

believe it or not but those marbled copper bettas were from a normal copper pair i purchased from her. lots-o-breeding! i feel for all the people who create new lines i just made an already existing line better and i was burned out at the end. yes i may say i charge what the fish is worth but if some people are argueing over a fish i will let them keep talking till they realise they are at $90 for a $25 fish. lol happened only once. tee hee 
WOW im an arachnosquire from this tread. bettas are always helpin me out.


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## Arachnophilist

isnt this a wondeful thread.. its makin friends and squires .. and money! hahaha


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## joseofsa

well waldo i still have that 7month old for sale. my bettas live 3-4 years(which is OLD) but i breed them from the day they hit 4months till the day they hit 7months old i get 8-11 spawns from a pair. after which i place them in their 5 gallons and let them enjoy their lives happy and fed. they can breed up to 9 months but i noticed they live shorter lives if you do so. if you want him pm me so we can talk about him.


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## AneesasMuse

It's funny how "marble" always shows up in a great line of fish. My super black (which was waning on the side of "paper sack brown" at times) had a LOT of copper in him... I'm assuming his mom threw it in since she would have to be other than a pure Melano to be fertile. After pairing him up with Luna, beautiful copper babies and platinum with black marbling were the results... no red either. (amazing!)

If only my hubby would let me set up a drip system in our garage   I would be back at the perfect Melano and the sunniest Yellows anywhere. Those were my goals when I started and when it had to end. (I got side tracked with red marbles, too  )

But all this talk has weakened me and I fell prey to those "stupid cups" at Petco yesterday... I needed Frog's litter. I always peek when I happen to walk by, but I'm usually very strong these days. :? 

...only this time, it didn't happen. I picked him up and put him down several times   ...and the last time, somehow he super glued himself to my grip and we made our way home. I'll try to get a pic of him sometime (still having problems with my digcam and the software) but just to give you an idea... he's a CT and very young/small. His color is difficult... maybe pastel? He's iridescent with bluish green color washed over him in no particular pattern. It wasn't his color that got me, though. He has a DT! I don't recall ever seeing this in the forums or on AB (I could be mistaken about AB, however); but definitely not in person. 

I set him up in one of the tanks in the livingroom... with my two ADF girls. Hanniyyah and Juan*ita have been in there for sometime without incident, so I'm hoping "no name as of yet" will be happy with them. At the moment, "fishy" is being stalked by Juan*ita. (ADFs are notorious for their poor eyesight, so it's hilarious to see her mistake the thermometer for the fish)


Now... see what y'all did!  Squires, friends, money and more darn fish!


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## joseofsa

ohh yes every time i go to the pet store i pick one up because you never know when that rare gem pops up. i have found DT's, a plakad, long tailed females, and an albino once. i purchased all these fish from petco, petsmart, and wal-mart(the albino died the next day but good luck finding one much less for $3.75). i would build a drip sysem but im puting heavy time and money into getting a chameleon buisness going. chameleons are the bettas of the reptile kingdom.


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## AneesasMuse

So am I crazy, or is DTCT a big thing now? I don't recall seeing both traits in one fish, but I'm sure I've missed a lot and forgotten a few things.  I've looked him over quite a few times to be sure his tail isn't damaged and it isn't... it's split to the peduncle even. My first DT ever... before all the breeding... had a fused caudal. When I started working with DTs on my own, and researching, I found that very few actually come out with even lobes and splits all the way to the peduncle. And I've only seen a handful of HMDTs ever... is that more prominent in the hobby now, too? 


Oh! and if you don't have a drip system, how in the heck do you manage to keep up with daily water changes? My legs and back just can't take it anymore.... especially not with 3-4 spawns going at once (in my case) and jarring the males as early as 3-4 weeks sometimes. I have a hard enough time keeping up with all my geckos, ratties, T's, and various tanks throughout the house... weekly water changes are hard enough on me


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## joseofsa

i have about 700 fish and about 500 beanie baby cases, 30 10 gallons, 20 25 gallons 3 50 gallons, and 30 5 gallons and i sleep on a couch. all i do is switch them around and during the week i clean some as i go(i breed "designer" ball pythons like pastels and such and getting $1400 a snake is the only reason i do not work). i have been busy so normaly i do not have this many fish because starting a store sucks and draines me. normaly i have 200-300 fish at once but im up to my eye balls in 3 month old fry.


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## Ant Worker

*hi*

Hi aneesas,
DTCT's are becoming more common. There are a lot more varieties out there. 
There is a very active betta forum here : ultimatebettas.com
Also, if you are ever looking for special fish, such as DTHMPK, try aquabid.com.
-Lee


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## AneesasMuse

Jose, you sound too busy... 

Lee, I am a member at Ultimate Betta... I just never read there anymore. Most of my previous breeding stock came from sellers on AB, as well. It is torture for me to "keep up" with everything these days, since I can't really get into it the way I used to. I do still peek once in a great while, but I never spend hours and hours flipping through stock on AB and other sites like I have in the past. 

It's funny now, but a friend of mine... also a hobby breeder... and I used to sit, via IMs, for hours in the early mornings and just show each other our newest finds on AB. It was crazy!  

Now, I feel like looking again... this really is a dangerous thread.


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## joseofsa

and i never answered your question. yes DT's are becoming the "must have fish" now... i personaly like the look of a good DT but find most of the people selling them are selling the weird ones like the ones with uneven lobes and the ones that are so inbred they are starting to take a triangle or dimond shape. so i will never breed them much or at all.


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## AneesasMuse

I was actually asking about CT DTs, but that's okay. I spent a couple hours browsing AB last night and I didn't see a one... not one... in long tails or Plakad. It does look like the HM DT is getting more popular or "common", whereas before, these were "rare gems". I'll keep my eyes open for anymore CT DTs...


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## bugmankeith

My favorite betta site is Betta Talk, found it very helpful.


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## joseofsa

ohh i have only seen one before was being sold on AB as HMCTDT poor fish.


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## Binky/Carol

Here is a not soo great pic of my female beta.
Don't know anything but the fact its female and she is pretty.
I have had males in the past, but fell in love with this girl.
My hubby named her Alpha..






http://s119.photobucket.com/albums/o122/Wnnahrse/?action=view&current=AlphaBeta.jpg


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## joseofsa

she looks good. if those pics are current let her fast for a day or two most bettas will develop swim bladder problems if fed too much for too long. but thumbs up on how happy she looks.


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## AneesasMuse

Oh, she is pretty! She reminds me of Faline (steel blue) and ZsaZsa (turquoise)... they were two of my all time favorite girls. I love the girls!! They have awesome personalities and a lot of "heart"!


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## Arachnophilist

whats DT? I assume CT is crown tail but I dont understand the DT terminology.


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## joseofsa

it can either mean double tail or delta tail. we are useing double tail.
HM half moon
PK plakad
VT veil tail
DT double tail
DT delta tail
SD super delta
CT crown tail
and any combo can be used to describe a bettas caudle (rear fin)


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## Arachnophilist

thanks again for being so informative


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## joseofsa

no problem. any more questions you may have feel free to ask here or in pm.


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## LeilaNami

I always heard the double tails referred to as scissor tails


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## joseofsa

hey from my neck of the woods eh leila. i have only heard this treminology woth guppys and the bird... intresting though.


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## LeilaNami

Yep. DFW area.  I got my hands on a pretty little leucistic betta with bright blue eyes from the pet store I work at.  I'm not sure the exact morph name though.  The only ones I'm certain of are Cambodian, black mask, and butterfly.


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