# vinegaroon M. giganteus Egglaying Q's.



## Steven (Mar 27, 2006)

Question:

What can make M. giganteus females trigger to drop an eggsac ?
Someone who can give some info regarding the natural climate-changes or periods when US vinegaroons start to lay eggsacs ?

i've mated 4 female vinegaroons last year in octobre orso
witnessed the mating,... so i'm quite sure they are furtile.
all my vinegaroons went underground since decembre last year orso and haven't eaten since. (which is normal i assume since they hibernate)
this weekend i saw 2 of the female back on top, looking really really FAT !

So now i'm waiting for some egglaying to happen,...
can i trigger this or do i need more patience :wall: 

Or should i drop my male back with the females this year ?


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## Galapoheros (Mar 28, 2006)

Wooosh, been a while.  The ones I've had mated around June or July.  Seems the females went under about September.  They just stayed there getting fatter and fatter.  Blowing up with eggs but they gained weight so they had to be soaking up moisture to(?).  Probably through condensation on their body or mouth parts.  Water would condense on the glass.  They would also pick up dirt and put it in their mouth parts and chew on it.  Maybe getting moisture out of it, I don't know.  I made sure I kept it moist enough to see water condense on the glass but of course, not enough to pool on the bottom.  I used fish bowls and could see them through the glass.  I would have to put a towel over the area of the glass I could see them through or they would cover it up with dirt since they don't like the light and would think there was a hole there.  I can't remember how many months it takes for them to lay eggs once they go under.  But I think this is important:  When they drop the egg sac, they will hang upside down from...whatever it is they crawled under.  So, I think it's important that they have something to hang on.  There is quite a bit of liquid in the sac.  It appears to stick to bottom of her abdomen as she is hanging upside down and pushing it out.  That way it's safe from rupturing like it might if she where on the bottom of her room if it got punctured.  It's pretty big!  She will hang upside down for months!  The sac starts to get tight around the eggs as they get bigger and the fluid in the sac dries up or is absorbed by the eggs(?).  I would see the females on the floor of their room by then.  Seems like it's around the following May or June when the babies would finally dig out.  I may be off about the timing.  But I do remember this.  The ones I've had were under for around 9 months.  You could dig them out earlier if you wanted because the babies start walking around the room for weeks before the start digging out.  Other than keeping it a little moist, I didn't do anything but watch.  I've seen it happen three times....not a whole lot.  But enough to satisfy my curiosity.  It is freaky and interesting.

Starts cooling down here around the last week of Sept.  That's usually when we get some rain here too.  I never paid attention but I would think 65 to 70 while they are under?  Then maybe put it in a warmer place around May?  I used potting soil back then but I think I would use peat if I tried it again.  That's my Ex.


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## Steven (Mar 28, 2006)

THANK YOU for the info :worship: 

so basicly i need more patience


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## Goliath (Apr 8, 2006)

Hey Steven,

I thought you would enjoy this.  I was giving up on the mating between my pair this fall and I went and checked on her and found this.  This is not a great picture as I did not want to disturb her.  

Mike


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## moricollins (Apr 8, 2006)

Mike, you are making me TOO jealous.... that's it, next time I'm in NY you need to come share some bugs   ;P


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## Nikos (Apr 8, 2006)

nice stuff!!
what is the white thing under the vinegaroon?
a rock maybe?


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## Goliath (Apr 9, 2006)

Mori,
Thanks and no problem, stop by next time you are in NY.

vardoulas,
She burrowed all the way down to the bottom of the tank, so that is my carpet that you see under through the bottom glass of the tank.

Mike


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## Steven (Apr 9, 2006)

WOW  Mike,

that's really awsome to see :drool: :drool: :drool: 
congratz !


Is she like (Galapoheros posted above) hanging upside down in her burrow ?


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## Goliath (Apr 9, 2006)

Thanks Steven.   The two females that I have had eggs for me never hung upside down.  The top of her hide is cork so she can hang upside down if she wants but seems to prefer to sit on the bottom of her burrow with her abdomen elevated. 

Mike


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## Galapoheros (Apr 9, 2006)

Wow!  That's weird!  Makes me want to try it again.  My "guess" is that she probably hung upside down the moment she was pushing the egg sack out.  The egg sac doesn't look like that in the picture right after she does it.  The sack is already getting tight around those eggs.  How long do you think she's had those eggs?  She looks pretty far along to me.  Babies in two or three months maybe?  With the ones I had, the sack turned a slight pinkish right before they came out of there.  Been a long time since I watched it, can't quite remember.  Bug entertainment!


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## Goliath (Apr 9, 2006)

Galapoheros,
She may have hung upside down when she pushed the eggs out, I was unable to catch her when she did it.  My female before I did catch and she just kept her abdomen elevated when she pushed the eggs out, so maybe it just depends on each individual female.  Your right though that the sac is looking pretty far along.  When they first push it out it does not look that packed, definitely looks like there is more fluid when they first come out.  Honestly I have no idea how long she has had the eggs.  Both her and the male have been in hibernation since November.  I am assuming that the eggs are about a month or so old, that was about the last time I checked on her and she did not have eggs.  If you look at the eggs closely, not so easy to see in the picture though, the looks to be the embryo clearly defined from the egg fluid.  I will have to look for the sac to turn pinkish, last time the female ate the sac.  
Thanks for the extra advice too,
Mike


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## Galapoheros (Apr 9, 2006)

Yea, I think I can baaarrrely see little curled up things.  The little white babies climb on the female like scorpion babies would.  But the females I had didn't come out until the babies molted again and looked like little adults.  They didn't even come out until the babies dug out first!  I've always thought that was kind of strange.  I mean they all climbed on the mother, but the three mothers I had never went anywhere.  Extra protection I guess and keeps the mother from stepping on them if they are on her back.  I guess that's it(?).  The newborns are petty weird looking.  I would like to see a close-up of one someday.  But they look normal after the next molt.  All my females died after a clutch.  Would you let us know if she eats and lives after the baby thing is all over?  Mine lasted a while but they just seemed to "let go".  Maybe I didn't leave the females alone enough.  Maybe they need a long recovery period and I didn't let them do that.  Heck, I don't know.


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## Goliath (Apr 9, 2006)

Thanks for even more info, anything extra info I can get on breeding these is always useful.  I am assuming that they will look just as weird as the baby D. diadema that I had before their first molt.  I will keep everyone updated on the progress.
Mike


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## SkyeSpider (May 26, 2006)

How's everything going? Mine just dropped a surprise batch of eggs for me. I'm really anxious to know what I'm in for.


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## Goliath (May 27, 2006)

The female still has the eggs and they are progressing along nicely.  The main thing is try not to disturb her as much as possible.  Once the babies hatch they will crawl on the mothers back.  They will stay there for around 14 days until they molt into second instar.  Humidity is crucial here so the young will molt successfully.  Then they will leave the back and disperse.  this is when you need to take them out and house them individually.  Once they are on there own give them a deep substrate and slightly moist.  They are very easy to care for once they leave her back if you set them up right.  They just grow incredibly slow, only molting about once a year.  Also feed and water the female immediately after the babies are removed or she will most likely die from the stress.  

Hope this helps,
Mike


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## Jonathan (May 27, 2006)

That is so very cool, I just had to comment!!


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## Goliath (May 27, 2006)

Sorry to hijack your thread again Steven, but here is what I came home to tonight.  Not a great picture though.
Mike


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## Scolopendra55 (May 28, 2006)

Goliath said:
			
		

> Sorry to hijack your thread again Steven, but here is what I came home to tonight.  Not a great picture though.
> Mike


:clap::worship::clap:

Congrats!! Are the babies easy to raise?


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## Steven (May 28, 2006)

Goliath said:
			
		

> Sorry to hijack your thread again Steven, but here is what I came home to tonight.  Not a great picture though.
> Mike


WOOOOOOWWWW  
:worship: :clap: :worship: :clap: :worship: 
congratz !!!


feel free to hijack whenever ya want if you got stuff like that to show  

really great,.. never seen baby vinegaroons
i can only hope  


could ya give some more detailed info on just what temp,, humidity etc. you're keeping them ? all my 4 females are just sitting on top as usual,... not much going on :wallstill have the male,...so i think i'm going for another mating attemp)


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## Goliath (May 28, 2006)

Scolopendra55,
Thanks, they are easy to raise once you get them to second instar.  This next molt will be critical.  After that they will be fine just grow really, really slow.

Steven,
Thanks Steven.  I hope you will get to see them too, from all four females.  

I kept the female around 80 last summer and mated her in the fall.  She went down into hibernation around nov time frame.  Could not see much until she let did some digging, that is when I noticed the eggs.  In november I kept the room temperature at 75 and dropped it to ~68 at night.  Humidity stayed fairly constant around 70-80% in her tank the whole time.  Now the temps are starting to go up again her, the room stays about 78 in the day and 68 at night.

You may want to try breeding them again, see what happens.  Or fatten them up, not that you or I have seen an anorexic looking roon's, they are always gluttons . Then try breeding again in the late summer-fall.

Mike


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## Goliath (Jun 3, 2006)

An update on the babies, still on the moms back.
Mike


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## Steven (Jun 3, 2006)

:drool: :drool: :drool: 

no words for it ! :worship:


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## Goliath (Jun 4, 2006)

Thanks Steven! 

Did you try and pair yours up again?  If so, how did it go?

Thanks,
Mike


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## Steven (Jun 4, 2006)

Hey Mike,..
no i haven't,... but i've put 2 of the 4 females in a warmer spot in my room,...
if after 1 month i still won't see anything happen,... i'll give it another try and introduce the male to all 4 again.
 

keep us up-to-date on those white vinnies,... when do they change color ?
Cheers
Steven


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## Goliath (Jun 5, 2006)

Steven said:
			
		

> Hey Mike,..
> no i haven't,... but i've put 2 of the 4 females in a warmer spot in my room,...
> if after 1 month i still won't see anything happen,... i'll give it another try and introduce the male to all 4 again.
> 
> ...


Hey Steven,

Sounds like a good plan, I hope it all works out well for you too.  Keep us up to date on your progress too.

I am expecting by the end of this week or next week they should be molting.  They will look just like miniture roons with red palps.

Thanks,
Mike


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## Steven (Jun 23, 2006)

yow, Mike,
one of my females is on eggs too !!!  
happy happy joy joy    

(can't take a picture cause she's really deep inside her burrow,... only saw it when i used a flashlight)


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## Galapoheros (Jun 23, 2006)

Rock-n-roll!  If you try to mate them again and the female doesn't want too, she will reject the male.  She will push him away.  He'll get the message and just walk off.  It's real obvious when the females do this...she just pushes him away.  Like I said in another post, it's kind of funny looking.  You can relate to it....well,... I can:8o ...Ha!


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## Steven (Jun 23, 2006)

hehehe :razz: 
I think i'll mated the other 3 females in aprox 2 months orso,...
fingers crossed for this 1 female with eggsac


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## Goliath (Jun 23, 2006)

Awesome Steven!:clap:   That is great to hear, there will be babies from these all over the world now.  It is amazing how big the eggs are from these females, and the babies are just as large.  Mine are still on the moms back, hoping they will molt soon.
mike


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## Steven (Jun 29, 2006)

The picture is just cr*p, but the entrance to her burrow is too narrow to take a decent picture,...
anyway,... i guess the eggs are almost changing.







PS: Mike,... how are yours doing ?


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## Goliath (Jun 29, 2006)

Very nice Steven!   Looks like you got a nice clutch there from what can be made out.  My babies are still on the moms back, still waiting for them to molt.  Hopefully this will happen soon.

mike


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## Steven (Jun 30, 2006)

thanx Mike,

man,... i'm even more excited about this eggsac then any scolopendrid or spider i ever had with eggs :} :} :}

i can't wait to mate my other females again after this summer  

can't remember if ya answered this allready or not,... but do you feed your vinegaroon while she's on eggs ? (i was thinking about handfeeding her some waxworms or other soft-feeders with a tweezer to be sure she'll survive the brood) and can 1 female produce more then 1 hatch in her life ?


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## Goliath (Jun 30, 2006)

Steven,

I know what you mean about being excited.  I can't wait for these too, it is just as common to breed these, so it is a good amount of excitement.  

I have not fed my female while she has had the eggs.  She has been a really good mom so far, and still has some plumplness to her.  Nothing like when she did not have the eggs though.  If you can get her to eat, sometimes they will not, she has a much higher survival rate after the brood leaves the mom.  A female can produce more than one batch but it does take a lot out of her.  After the babies leave feed her immediatly and give her access to water.  That will increase her cahnce of survival tremendously.  Otherwise the females just waste a way and die.  

mike


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## Goliath (Jul 5, 2006)

We have little ones here.

Steven, the babies started molting last night and there are some more that still have to molt as of now.  Here is a not so great pic of the little ones.

mike


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## Steven (Jul 5, 2006)

HELL YEAH !!!! :worship: :worship: :worship: 
looking very cute Mike !


i'll check on mine this evening


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## Goliath (Jul 5, 2006)

Thanks Steven.  I also noticed that it really takes them a long time to darken up.  The ones that molted last night are just starting to get dark in color, but moving around well.

mike


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## Goliath (Jul 5, 2006)

Here are a few more pictures as more start to molt.
mike


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## Galapoheros (Jul 5, 2006)

Isn't that weird!?  Please let us know if the Moms survive.  I've bred a few of these and the mothers just stopped living.  None seemed very interested in food or water after the babies left.


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## lucanidae (Jul 6, 2006)

Mine just ate all of the babies off her back  ....for no reason at all.  But now she is feeding well and active, seems as though she will survive.....


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## Goliath (Jul 6, 2006)

lucanidae said:
			
		

> Mine just ate all of the babies off her back  ....for no reason at all.  But now she is feeding well and active, seems as though she will survive.....


That stinks, sorry to hear that.  Glad to hear the female is doing okay though.  How long had the babies been on her back?

mike


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## Goliath (Jul 7, 2006)

A couple more shots.

mike


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## Nikos (Jul 8, 2006)

Amazing photos! especialy the 1st one is a joy for the eyes of a vinegaroon-phile!

I hope my female will do the same too.

Steven any updates on yours?


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## Steven (Jul 8, 2006)

vardoulas said:
			
		

> Steven any updates on yours?





			
				lucanidae said:
			
		

> Mine just ate all of the babies off her back  ....for no reason at all.  But now she is feeding well and active, seems as though she will survive.....


   
mine has dropped her eggsac a few days back and now she's out of her burrow without eggs,...  i also don't know why :? 

bummer

seems Mike is doing the right stuff,...
looking very good ! :worship: :worship:


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## Galapoheros (Jul 8, 2006)

Maybe not enough moisture?  Wonder why she ate them...  I go to areas these can be found in.  Around there it is desert with rocks, shrubs and cactus.    When I had a few breed, there was allot of moisture in the room they made with no entrance or exit.  They were locked in for months in 6 to 8 inches of sub.  They all chose a rock to do this under.  Allot of moisture didn't seem to bother them but, not enough,..seems like it would be a problem .


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## Goliath (Jul 8, 2006)

vardoulas said:
			
		

> Amazing photos! especialy the 1st one is a joy for the eyes of a vinegaroon-phile!
> 
> I hope my female will do the same too.


Thanks Nikos!   I am still amazed how many there are, I have not gotten an exact count but there is 30+.  Good luck with your female too.  


Sorry to hear about your eggs Steven.  That really stinks.  It would seem that all conditions should have been correct for her to even drop the eggs.  Usually not enough moisture causes a tight constriction of the membrane around the eggs, this is very visible.  It did not look like that with yours, but no one can ever be sure what goes wrong.  Lets hope it goes better this fall.

mike


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## Galapoheros (Jul 9, 2006)

It's normal for the membrane to look tight around the eggs as they get closer to hatching and should turn slightly pinkish.


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## Goliath (Jul 9, 2006)

Yes you are right Galapoheros it is supposed to get tight toward the end, but in dry situations the membrane will become extremely tight early and cause the inner eggs to rupture.  Thus producing a milky fluid that will wick it ways to be visible between the outer most layers of eggs.  Here is usually when the female will eat the eggs, since they will most likely mold or dessicate anyways.  

mike


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## Galapoheros (Jul 9, 2006)

Oh, she ate them early?  That's bad news.  The membrane looks very fragile.  With the ones I had, they were very, very careful not to let the egg sac touch anything.  If it did and got a leak early on in development, I think she would eat the eggs.  Ha, just more guessing.


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## Goliath (Jul 9, 2006)

I think she did eat it pretty early with Steven's, I don't know exactly how far along they were.  He could give a better estimate than I can.  Mine did not let the eggsac touch anything either, she mostly stayed propped up with her abdomen up at an angle so as to keep the sac up.  As you said though everything is guessing at this point.

mike


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## Goliath (Jul 22, 2006)

Seperated them out last night, final count is 44 healthy little roons.  They are eating well on fruit flies and pinhead crickets.  Mom is doing fine and chowing down on any food I put in her cage.

mike


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