# Classroom Snake Suggestions



## becca81 (Sep 30, 2006)

I've finally decided that I'd like to get a snake for my classroom and after doing a fair amount of reading, I'm still not sure what to do.  I know opinions vary, of course, but I need something that can come fairly close to meeting a few requirements.

A. - Laid back / docile / rarely aggressive or defensive
B. - Able to be handled would be a plus, but not necessary
C. - Will take frozen/thawed prey
D. - Venom not of medicial significance

I've been thinking about a basic corn snake, but thought perhaps there was something more interesting out there.


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## Gigas (Sep 30, 2006)

Well as you said corns would be ideal, so many colours to choose from :drool: but a ball python could make an interesting addition. Most snakes from the Elaphe genus are good actually trinket snakes(_Elaphe helena_) and great plains rat snakes(Elaphe emoryi) are nice. or if you want something more colourful theres all the Milksnakes (Lampropeltis) to choose from.
Dunno if you get them in the US but Brown house snake (Lamprophis fuliginosus) are a personal favourite


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## AneesasMuse (Sep 30, 2006)

I had a "basic cornsnake" in my 4th grade classroom and the kids loved it! Hollywood still lives with me even though I don't teach at a public school anymore, and he's still a laid back, docile guy (or gal). 
I used to let the kids handle him during class or let Hollywood hang out on my head and shoulders while I teach.... great for keeping the attention of the kids... and it worked great for us. 

He's a pretty big guy now... almost 5 feet... but if you live near me and you'd like to have him for your classroom (he is a veteran, after all), you are welcome to him. He's a good boy and he is taking frozen.


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## Midnightrdr456 (Sep 30, 2006)

I would say a Corn or basically any King Snake too, my frist snake was a California Banded King Snake (sorry i dont know the scientific name), but it is a beautiful and very laid back snake.


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## sick4x4 (Sep 30, 2006)

i think king snakes, with their colorations, and docile nature,  make them great snakes for kids to handle


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## Schlyne (Sep 30, 2006)

I would go for a corn snake or a king snake for a classroom environment over a ball python.  As neat as gopher snakes are, they sometimes have a bit of an "attitude" which might scare kids.  (My little male rattles all the time when distrubed).  Ball pythons are great snakes, but they're shyer animals, and are more likely to have security/stress issues in a class room.

Red tail boas are also very docile and they're great snakes, but that might be a bit bigger than you want to take care of in a classroom...plus parents would probably be more upset about a snake that may reach 7ft as opposed to one that might make it to 5 ft.


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## OldHag (Sep 30, 2006)

Kenyan Sand boa!!! They are SO mellow. Corns, to me, seem to always have somewhere to go! They dont stop moving so I can look, pet, poke, prode and hug  Sandbos are just happy to sit on your hand and let you pet and examine. They have the prettiest eyes!! They come in many different ranges of color and patterns.  From brown/yellow, Brown/orange, Black/White, Albino, snow... theyre just gorgeous!! I cant sing their praise enough. 
 They stay rather small so its not so intimidating for ppl who have problems with snakes. They dont move quickly (other than to eat) so they dont startle the cautious person.  They readily eat F/T mice. Very hardy.  Did I mention theyre the perfect snake??


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## Crotalus (Sep 30, 2006)

A corn sounds like a good choice. After all its a classic looking snake and usually docile. However, a stressful environment like a classroom with kids knocking endlessly on the glass is not ideal for any reptile.


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## Dom (Sep 30, 2006)

Yes corns are beautiful!. Corns and kings are more resistant to environmental fluctuations also than a ball python would be, easier to keep happy.


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## AneesasMuse (Sep 30, 2006)

Part of the reason for having animals in the classroom, is to teach the kids proper respect of the creature... not knocking on the glass, not screaming when it moves or comes near you, etc. 


I had more problems with the adults that worked at my school being disrespectful to my class's animals... never with the kids  :8o  In fact, I witnessed on quite a few occasions... my kids giving an adult a quick lesson in properly caring for the animal and interacting with it  Those moments made my day!


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## Randolph XX() (Sep 30, 2006)

kenyan sand boa


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## Zarathustra (Sep 30, 2006)

I would recommend a Black Milksnake (Lampropeltis triangulum gaigeae). In my experience they are even more docile than other kings, milks and corns. Whereas I have had other snakes accidentally mistake my hand for food, this has never happened with my Black milks. They are especially gentle. I love them.

Also, they go through really cool color changes. When they are hatchlings, they look like a typical tri-colored snake, but as they mature, they turn into large jet black snakes. (about 6 feet) Another plus is that they can tolerate, and likely prefer, cooler temperatures, so a supplemental heat source would not be necessary.


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## Dom (Sep 30, 2006)

Zarathustra said:


> I would recommend a Black Milksnake (Lampropeltis triangulum gaigeae). In my experience they are even more docile than other kings, milks and corns. Whereas I have had other snakes accidentally mistake my hand for food, this has never happened with my Black milks. They are especially gentle. I love them.
> 
> Also, they go through really cool color changes. When they are hatchlings, they look like a typical tri-colored snake, but as they mature, they turn into large jet black snakes. (about 6 feet) Another plus is that they can tolerate, and likely prefer, cooler temperatures, so a supplemental heat source would not be necessary.


Aren't they a little pricey though?


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## Blasphemy (Sep 30, 2006)

Zarathustra said:


> I would recommend a Black Milksnake (Lampropeltis triangulum gaigeae). In my experience they are even more docile than other kings, milks and corns. Whereas I have had other snakes accidentally mistake my hand for food, this has never happened with my Black milks. They are especially gentle. I love them.
> 
> Also, they go through really cool color changes. When they are hatchlings, they look like a typical tri-colored snake, but as they mature, they turn into large jet black snakes. (about 6 feet) Another plus is that they can tolerate, and likely prefer, cooler temperatures, so a supplemental heat source would not be necessary.


I've been looking for one of these for ages...if you know of an online dealer that sells these please post the link


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## Mushroom Spore (Sep 30, 2006)

Schlyne said:


> Ball pythons are great snakes, but they're shyer animals, and are more likely to have security/stress issues in a class room.


Agreed. Balls are almost exclusively nocturnal (you'll never see them during school hours ), and being in high-traffic areas would give them stress fits. 

Look into the humble, tiny rubber boa! http://www.rubberboas.com/ Tiny, do fine at room temperature (which is extremely important if they're going to be handled for any length of time, subject to the room's temperatures), docile as can be, and the only species I've ever heard of that can be housed in groups with no real stress/cannibalism issues. The only problem is finding them for sale, but cornsnakes.net has some.


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## Thoth (Sep 30, 2006)

A third vote for kenyan sand boa.

Though a rubber boa or rosy boa would be good choices as well.


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## becca81 (Sep 30, 2006)

Crotalus said:


> A corn sounds like a good choice. After all its a classic looking snake and usually docile. However, a stressful environment like a classroom with kids knocking endlessly on the glass is not ideal for any reptile.


One of the first things that I work with my students on is respect for any animals we have in the classroom.  I've had reptiles before and, along with all the spiders and other inverts that I keep in the room, I've never had any problems with students purposefully stressing them out (tapping on the glass, etc.).

I may just start out with a corn snake - it'll be my first snake, too, so looks like it's time to start doing more research and have things set up.  

@AneesasMuse - Where are you from?


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## Blasphemy (Sep 30, 2006)

I agree that a corn snake would be the best option for you for a couple of reasons. They have excellent temperments, they are great eaters, they are very hardy, only grow to a modest size as far as snakes go, and they are pretty inexpensive. Another thing is if you go to a pet store that gets in 'variety cornsnakes' you might find a really nice color morph for no extra money. Also, a really cool thing you can do easily with corns is hand feeding...I regulary hand feed baby corns at my work and they'll literally eat right in your hand. Most won't even strike when you hand feed, they'll just open their mouths casually and start eating. That is something I can't really do with the pythons because they always seem to feel the need to strike and coil the food item even if doesn't move after they take hold of it. Good luck with whatever you decide


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## Midnightrdr456 (Sep 30, 2006)

yea pythons and even boas are more agressive feeders.

Corn is definately a great way to go, you can get some beautiful specimens at pet stores, and dealers have hundreds of morphs.  Albinos are always beautiful if you decide to get one.


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## Zarathustra (Oct 1, 2006)

Dom said:


> Aren't they a little pricey though?


Umm, I don’t think so, but I guess that depends on what you are willing to spend. The price for hatchlings usually runs from 80-125 dollars, and I think that’s a fair price.


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## Zarathustra (Oct 1, 2006)

Blasphemy said:


> I've been looking for one of these for ages...if you know of an online dealer that sells these please post the link


http://www.cherryvillereptiles.com/milk.html

This is the place where I got mine from. The guy I talked to on the phone there was very cool, delivery was prompt, and the snakes where healthy. I would order from here again.

You can also look on kingsnake.com, in the classified section. I have seen them advertised on there for even lower prices. I just checked now, and there is a guy selling a pair for $175, and another guy has five males that he is selling for $70 a piece. Sounds like a good deal to me.


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## Jonathan (Oct 1, 2006)

*Dendroaspis polylepis*

I heard that these are easy going.  It may only be a rumor though.  
Jon


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## Gigas (Oct 1, 2006)

Jonathan said:


> I heard that these are easy going.  It may only be a rumor though.
> Jon


.....


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## Dom (Oct 1, 2006)

Zarathustra said:


> Umm, I don’t think so, but I guess that depends on what you are willing to spend. The price for hatchlings usually runs from 80-125 dollars, and I think that’s a fair price.


One thing to keep in mind with a classroom of kids is that with 30 kids and 300 days of class time I wouldn't be surprised if the cage lid gets left open etc. $80-125 for a hatchling is a fair amount to lose. You could buy a pair of adult corns for that money and have the added excitement of letting the kids see some eggs hatch if you breed them early in the season.
Plus a hatchling may be a little delicate for a classroom of potentially not so gentle kids.

BTW $80-125 isn't bad for L.t. gaigeae, last time I looked at them they were significantly more expensive. Definitely one of my favorite kings/milks.


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## becca81 (Oct 1, 2006)

I'm going to look at pricing and availability for several different species listed in the thread - thanks so much for the input!

Hopefully I'll have everything in the next month or so.  My students this year have been asking if we could keep a snake in the room, so they will be thrilled.  

Becca


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## Gigas (Oct 1, 2006)

I wish i had a teacher like you ! lucky kids... you can't go wrong with _most_ of the snakes suggested


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## Black Hawk (Oct 1, 2006)

i'll give a fourth vote for a kenyan sand boa, they're my fav snake and would be my first choice but my mom forbids me from having any serpents in the house so...bummer


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## ScorpDemon (Oct 1, 2006)

I gotta agree with the Hag, kenyan sand boa.. easy to care for as far as snakes go, and not nearly the escape artists corns/kings/milks are, one of my personal favorites.


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## Randolph XX() (Oct 2, 2006)

rubber boa is vulnerable in some areas as far as i know, plus there are quite a lot of cb Kenyans all year around


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## edventurous77 (Oct 2, 2006)

rosy boas are small and colourful an get very tame. but it would have to be a milk king or corn nothing else compares


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## Zarathustra (Oct 2, 2006)

The one thing that everybody is forgetting about sand boas is that they are ugly as hell. Their bodies have the elegance and beauty of a roll of summer sausage. (projectile vomit face here) It barely looks like a snake. I vote against the Kenyan sand sausage.


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## Tleilaxu (Oct 2, 2006)

The western fox snake(Elaphe vulpina vulpine) is one of my favorites, even as a baby they are really laid back and make impressive specimens.


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## wicked (Oct 2, 2006)

Corns have a lot going for them, variety, color, price, but I think rosy boas are excellent choices too. 
My youngest son got a baby rosy in Jan (his first snake), very easy keeper.
But they are a bit more money than an average corn. Dread was about $75.
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showpost.php?p=599686&postcount=1


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## OldHag (Oct 2, 2006)

Zarathustra said:


> The one thing that everybody is forgetting about sand boas is that they are ugly as hell. Their bodies have the elegance and beauty of a roll of summer sausage. (projectile vomit face here) It barely looks like a snake. I vote against the Kenyan sand sausage.


lol I like that.. Kenyan Sand Sausage!!  
Funny thing to me is, I think Corns and most colubrids for that matter are hideous! Funny how everyone has different oppinions. I think Kenyans are gorgeous! All fat and pudgy and cuter than a bugs ear! Lil turned up noses.. awwww SO CUTE.


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## CopperInMyVeins (Oct 2, 2006)

I have to go with Sand Boa as well, to me they're more interesting looking than the standard colubrid snake, also smaller than most, and extremely easy to handle.


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## rattler_mt (Oct 2, 2006)

rubber boa: prolly the snake you are least likely to get bit buy. i had one guy tell me you could dress your finger up in a mouse suit and it prolly wont strike. problems: cb can be difficult to locate and WC are prolly eating skinks. this species isnt a good one in my opinion for a class room snake

rosey boas: never had one but have heard lots of good things. another species thats not likely to bite.

corn snakes: over all good snakes. you run into the occational neurotic one thats bitey. hatchlings can be a bit delicate. if yah can find one thats been handled alot and is about a year old your good to go. 

ball python: mine never minded being woke up to show someone but given the option its going to hide during the day. with a CB chances of being bit are slim except at feeding time. a bite from a 4 foot adult doesnt cause much bleeding speaking from experiance(completly 100% my fault i got bit, was 100% preventable). the one i had's favorite perch was on top of my baseball cap, he reguarded it as his. bent a couple pairs of eye glasses in his attempts to move from my shoulder to the top of my head.

Boa constrictors: ive seen alot of B. c. imperators(columbian/central american boas) as class room snakes. B. c. c.'s(red tailed boas) are much poorer classroom snakes as they get larger and like it warmer. if yah can get a male BCI it will prolly get around 5 feet long(females are longer) if you lived closer i would give yah the 4 year old male i have who is a classroom presentation veteran and is around 4 feet. but i wont ship him. a very calm snake.

with all snakes you run in to psycotic individuals in what are normally calm species. if at all possible get handle the snake before hand and if at all possible find one thats around a year old at the youngest. young snakes are quite often highly defensive and prone to bite. a lil older animal thats been handled alot already is the best bet. especially if you can check it out in person before hand.


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## Crotalus (Oct 2, 2006)

Why not dont take the kids out in nature (if the weather still allows it) and look for snakes. That way the kids might appreciate the snake a bit more then just see it in a terrarium disconnected from its environment.
Just my 2 cents 

I do think sand boas win the prize for less suitable snake in a class room. The kids dont wanna stare at a empty (so it seems) terrarium.


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## becca81 (Oct 2, 2006)

Crotalus said:


> Why not dont take the kids out in nature (if the weather still allows it) and look for snakes. That way the kids might appreciate the snake a bit more then just see it in a terrarium disconnected from its environment.
> Just my 2 cents
> .


As much as I would LOVE to take kids out herping, I can only imagine telling parents that I'm taking their child out to look for snakes.


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## Crotalus (Oct 2, 2006)

becca81 said:


> As much as I would LOVE to take kids out herping, I can only imagine telling parents that I'm taking their child out to look for snakes.


Tell them you learn them something?
Seriously, you are not concerned over what the parents might say?


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## Tleilaxu (Oct 2, 2006)

Just say your trying to highlight the native wildlife.


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## Mushroom Spore (Oct 2, 2006)

rattler_mt said:


> rubber boa...WC are prolly eating skinks


Um. Rubber boas in the wild get their food by raiding the nests of small rodents like mice and voles. I've never heard of them eating skinks.


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## rattler_mt (Oct 3, 2006)

most of the papers ive seen on them list skinks as a main food source for some populations. though i have to admit its been a few years since i read the papers. while i do believe rubber boas are extreamly interesting snakes. the few ive had access to have left alot to be desired for keeping a kids attention.


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## Spider Tyrant (Oct 3, 2006)

I recently did a rescue and picked up an absolutely gorgeous baby California Kingsnake.  I personally am far more fond of Kingsnakes than I am of Cornsnakes, so that is what I would go with.


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## rattler_mt (Oct 3, 2006)

yeah most Cali Kings are wonderful snakes. BUT ive got a friend with one that makes an iritable cobra look tame  like i said for a classroom snake if at all possible handle it before buying it or get it from someone you trust, there are psycotic individuals even in the normally tame species.


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## IguanaMama (Oct 3, 2006)

I vote for cornsnakes.  There's a lot of information out there on the genetics of them too.  There's even a book just on the genetics of cornsnakes, so that's a good lesson.  Plus, I think they might even be native to your state, but I'm not positive.  Also a great website -- www.cornsnakes.com that you can get lots of good info from.  Lucky students you have, anyway.


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## Zarathustra (Oct 3, 2006)

rattler_mt said:


> yeah most Cali Kings are wonderful snakes. BUT ive got a friend with one that makes an iritable cobra look tame  like i said for a classroom snake if at all possible handle it before buying it or get it from someone you trust, there are psycotic individuals even in the normally tame species.


Your friend must have the same luck with cal kings that I have. I have bought about four or five cal kings in my time, and  of all of those, only one was not nippy and poop happy. I think cal kings are beautiful, but I just don’t buy them because they always try to poop on me AND bite me.


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## Taceas (Oct 3, 2006)

Having mainly cornsnakes myself, I can attest to their hardy nature, calm demeanor, and inexpensive price. I don't think you could find a better classroom snake, personally. 

Every, repeat every, Cal King I've ever had continually mistakes me for food and latches on. I've yet to meet one that doesn't bite. So I don't think most California Kings would be a great choice for children.

Kenyan Sand Boas are cute, but the 5 I had must have been the oddballs of the species, they bit like there's no tomorrow and did not like to be handled. Not to mention if given the chance, they're going to hide under the substrate all day. I wouldn't consider them all that great for a display animal in a classroom.

I would rule Ball Pythons out immediately. They stress easily and even mine goes on weird hunger strikes occasionally. Plus all of the handling and attention from the kids would give it a complex I'm sure. 

Again, I would say no to the Boa Constrictor as well. It'd be a nightmare for parents who are probably already Ophidophobes.

However, being that you're in Tennessee where Corns are native, you are required to have a permit to own them, IIRC (I'm not sure if being a teacher precludes you from that). I have a friend in Murfreesboro who could probably help you out with questions about licensing and possibly procuring you a specimen at little cost. She has donated to classrooms in the past. If you would like her information, drop me a PM.

If that doesn't pan out, I'm sure I've got something around here I could let you have. 

Which personally I see corns as being a native species as a good thing. It might encourage children to care more for the wild spots and the native environment to keep the relatives of the class snake around and happy.

But anyway, all we had in classes when I was a kid was gerbils. So having a snake and inverts in class would have been awesome.


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## rattler_mt (Oct 3, 2006)

were they adults or juvi's? alot of colubrid juvies can be a bit twitchy and i dont hold that against them cause they normally grow out of it. my buddy's Cali King is CB and he has had it for 4 years. still spastic as all heck. i prefered dealing with my pythons of so-so temperment than that thing. with the pythons there was only about a 1 in 4 chance of getting bit. that king is a sure thing.

if yah keep enough snakes(especially pythons) your going to wind up getting bit. the trick is to make sure you get nailed by the lil ones and not the big ones


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## rattler_mt (Oct 3, 2006)

as long as the boa constrictor was small ive never had issues with parents. male BCI's tend to stay small and are a heck of alot less imposing than the 6 ft plus bullsnakes i occationally catch. never ran into a problem with ball pythons either though i made sure i only recieved captive bred. i had on 12 year old male that would eat even in blue..........that guy refused to miss a meal no matter what


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## Midnightrdr456 (Oct 3, 2006)

i have a cal king snake ive had since 2nd grade (im a senior in college now).  In the 14-15 years that ive had him now, ive been bitten 3 times, once was when i was feeding him, (he bit faster than i could let go haha), second time was my fault, in cleaning his cage he was buriend and i grabbed his tail and pull him by accident, and the last time was when i thought my father had fed him and he though i had, so it hadnt eaten in almost 3 weeks (so he was grabbing at everything).

Other than that 14-15 years of all perfect behaviour, they are beautiful snakes and dont get too large, both in length and girth.


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## Tleilaxu (Oct 6, 2006)

Fox snakes and/or corn snake swould be my choices

http://www.bgsu.edu/departments/biology/facilities/herp/snakes/fox.JPG

http://www.michigan.gov/images/fox_snake_101555_7.jpg
Eastern Fox snake

http://www.museum.state.il.us/muslink/prairie/images/w_foxsnake_400.jpg
Western Fox snake

http://a1410.g.akamai.net/f/1410/16...com/reptile_amph/reptile_amph_m/AR0096_1m.jpg
Wild corn snake.


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## Midnightrdr456 (Oct 7, 2006)

never seen a fox snake before, beautiful though

How large do they get, and hows their temperment?


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## Tleilaxu (Oct 7, 2006)

Fox snakes are some of the most laid back reptiles out there, you can pick up a wild one and it will be your buddy. They get about six feet.


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## Spider Tyrant (Oct 9, 2006)

I have never been bit by a Cali. King.  I am rather amazed that someone here has been. 

I definately advise against BCI or BCC.  Every time I work with these in a classroom situation, they get very angry due to all the vibrations given off by people.  Boas are not snakes for large groups of kids.


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## Schlyne (Oct 11, 2006)

Tleilaxu said:


> Fox snakes are some of the most laid back reptiles out there, you can pick up a wild one and it will be your buddy. They get about six feet.


Look into the state herping laws on native species before you pick one up and see if you need a permit or something to keep one.

(As an example, in order for me to own a western hognose snake in IL, I have to apply for a permit just to own the snake, and I must have the permit before I can get one.  This includes sending in paperwork every year on the status of the animal.)


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