# My Millipede Substrate Mix



## mickiem (May 8, 2017)

I know there are a lot of millipede substrate recipes out there and of course this one is very similar.  I was keeping_ N. americanus_  millipedes for about a year with no babies.  I had been told by many that dwarf white isopods were fine tankmates. I disagree as I am certain that's why I found no babies.

About a month ago, I rehoused some _Acladocricus _because they had grown and needed deeper substrate but also, they had turned the sub to frass!   They loved their new mix and were active and still are, so I tried to duplicate that mix for these needy cherry footed friends 

Coir:  50% of the mix. I know others use less but it holds moisture and texture better than anything else I have found. 

Green Envy Leaf compost: 30%. It is organic.  I bake it at 250° for two hours.  Any bagged product may have plastic and metal pieces in it so I go through it thoroughly.

Traager Oak Pellets: 5-10%. I really don't know if these make a difference but I had them on hand last time and it was such a good mix I decided I would continue to include it.  I soaked them first.

Dead Oak Leaves: 5%.  I baked them also for two hours at 200°   Then crumbled them into the mix. I also add the leaves on the top.

Aspen Shreds:   Just a few handfuls, I think this adds a good texture to the overall mix.

Hardwood:   About a handful.  I put cherry oak hickory and maple  in my pressure cooker at 15 pounds pressure for 45 minutes.  These were branches that I thought they would crawl on but I noticed how nicely they crumbled.  I'm just learning about white rotted wood and dark rotted wood and the different bacteria that causes that. I had both;  I crumbled them and added them.

Cuttlefish Bone:   I ground an entire cuttlefish probably about a tablespoon.

After I added some dried leaves on top and some branches I put the pedes back.  Within a few minutes every male had found a mate. @Hisserdude  thanks for convincing me to change the substrate; I'll name the firstborn after you!

I hope this isn't redundant, I just think my pedes are happy.  My amounts aren't exact but the next time I make it I'm going to be more careful so I can write it all down.  I will also boil some sheet moss and add it around the top.   The pedes like to coil under it and it's easy and not invasive to simply lift it to look at them. Also holds moisture.

What would you add or not use? How is your mix different?

Reactions: Like 6 | Informative 3


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## Jerry (May 8, 2017)

My hardwood and leaves are mostly cottonwood because it's really abundant but other than that fairly similar going to tweek mine a bit to make it better


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## Hisserdude (May 8, 2017)

mickiem said:


> I know there are a lot of millipede substrate recipes out there and of course this one is very similar.  I was keeping_ N. americanus_  millipedes for about a year with no babies.  I had been told by many that dwarf white isopods were fine tankmates. I disagree as I am certain that's why I found no babies.
> 
> About a month ago, I rehoused some _Acladocricus _because they had grown and needed deeper substrate but also, they had turned the sub to frass!   They loved their new mix and were active and still are, so I tried to duplicate that mix for these needy cherry footed friends
> 
> ...


Nice setup, hope they do well for you! Thanks man, I'm flattered!


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## RTTB (May 10, 2017)

Looks like a lot of thought and effort went into your substrate so I hope you reap the rewards.


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## mickiem (May 10, 2017)

RTTB said:


> Looks like a lot of thought and effort went into your substrate so I hope you reap the rewards.


It's not their fault they are living in plastic boxes in a spare bedroom. I have to do my part.   Well maybe it is their fault, they are irresistible.  I want to do my best by them

Reactions: Funny 1


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## mickiem (Jun 8, 2017)

@CDH here is my mix. Coir is coconut husk, what you are using. Hope this helps!


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## mickiem (Jul 22, 2017)

@Andee  here is a thread about substrate.  This is my basic mix, I add more of this or that according to what species I am housing.


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## Andee (Jul 22, 2017)

@mickiem thanks so much for this post. Does your baking at that temp for that long, do pasteurization more? or more like sterilization? Have you had any issues with mold or mites?


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## mickiem (Jul 22, 2017)

Andee said:


> @mickiem thanks so much for this post. Does your baking at that temp for that long, do pasteurization more? or more like sterilization? Have you had any issues with mold or mites?


More of a pasteurization.  The wood in the pressure cooker is closer to sterilization and I do get a little mold from the wood.  I have been making 40 gallon batches a month or so ahead of time and stirring it a few times a week. That seems to get the balance faster.  I have been separating babies from adults, so I am adding lots of enclosures.  Its all a game of trial and error with the substrate.  I lost about 1000 Ivory babies once and I never knew why but I suspect the substrate was depleted.  So now I move babies when they are about 6 months old; sooner if there are a lot.  I have only had predatory mites; never parasitic mites.  I don't know where they came from but I guess they are good, so I don't worry about them.


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## mickiem (Jul 22, 2017)

Andee said:


> @mickiem thanks so much for this post. Does your baking at that temp for that long, do pasteurization more? or more like sterilization? Have you had any issues with mold or mites?


I probably used more like 30% coir and more Aspen than a  handful or two.  My next mix is going to be 33% leaves (leaf compost, dead, crumbled leaves, etc.) and 33% wood (rotten wood, Traeger pellets, Aspen, etc.) and 33% coir.  Then a calcium mixture (oyster shell, cuttlefish, bird grit)sprinkled in, etc.  Variety, variety, variety!


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## Andee (Jul 22, 2017)

Does aspen help? What do you notice with it?


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## mickiem (Jul 22, 2017)

Andee said:


> Does aspen help? What do you notice with it?


I like the texture it lends.  I rarely dig in the substrate, but if I have to do so, I feel like the texture is easier to sift through.  It sort of layers or flakes away if that makes sense.  I am also sure it will break down and become edible after a few months.


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## Andee (Jul 22, 2017)

I will have to add some


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## mickiem (Jul 22, 2017)

Andee said:


> I will have to add some


I recently went on a 3 week holiday and my husband watched my millipedes.  He doesn't usually have much to do with them but was willing.  He misted the enclosures WAAY too much!  There were 2 enclosures that had wringing wet substrate.   I added Aspen to absorb the excess moisture and it worked like a charm.  It absorbs a lot!


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## Andee (Jul 22, 2017)

Always gotta love that XD


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## Andee (Jul 23, 2017)

@mickiem I don't have a pressure cooker for my wood, it's not exactly rotted but it's definitely dead and a lot of it is close to crumbling, do you have any suggestions on how to get it close to where you got it with what I have available. I have several slow cookers, an oven of course, pots of various natures, and a dehydrator?


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## mickiem (Jul 23, 2017)

@Andee  If it is crumbled, you could thinly spread it on a cookie sheet and bake it.  Before I started using the pressure cooker, I baked wood in the oven.  I bake 1-3" diameter branches at 250° for about 3 hours.  I finally found a pressure cooker at a yard sale and use it just for this.  Made me feel better to cook wood in something for which I didn't pay full price. The steam will make some of the wood not yet crumbling begin to crumble.  All those gadgets and no pressure cooker?!


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## InvertsandOi (Jul 23, 2017)

mickiem said:


> I had been told by many that dwarf white isopods were fine tankmates. I disagree as I am certain that's why I found no babies.


I wouldn't be surprised. I have Trichorhina tomentosa in my D. diadema enclosure and they are voracious! They'll take care of an entire cricket in a day easy. I don't see why they wouldn't devour any eggs they come across. I've heard of them spreading to other enclosures too. One more reason to use chiffon on the ventilation openings for Millipede enclosures.


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## Andee (Jul 23, 2017)

mickiem said:


> @Andee  If it is crumbled, you could thinly spread it on a cookie sheet and bake it.  Before I started using the pressure cooker, I baked wood in the oven.  I bake 1-3" diameter branches at 250° for about 3 hours.  I finally found a pressure cooker at a yard sale and use it just for this.  Made me feel better to cook wood in something for which I didn't pay full price. The steam will make some of the wood not yet crumbling begin to crumble.  All those gadgets and no pressure cooker?!


Lmao I have not had a need for one yet. It kind of crumbles, but since the thicker pieces are so big they don't do it yet. Though all of them wood is dry and dead


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## mickiem (Jul 23, 2017)

Nick H said:


> I wouldn't be surprised. I have Trichorhina tomentosa in my D. diadema enclosure and they are voracious! They'll take care of an entire cricket in a day easy. I don't see why they wouldn't devour any eggs they come across. I've heard of them spreading to other enclosures too. One more reason to use chiffon on the ventilation openings for Millipede enclosures.


Yes, I had them for almost a year.  I was suspecting they were the reason I had no _N. americanus_ babies.  That was the only thing different from any other enclosure and all other mature pedes had pedelings.  Makes me sad, but glad I didn't have them in all my enclosures!  I would have been sick if they ate my AGBs.


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## mickiem (Jul 25, 2017)

@Andee i was thinking about your dehydrator. I was drying mushrooms in the oven and thought of this.   If your dehydrator is big enough or you don't need a huge amount of substrate, maybe you could try some small batches. It would kill earthworms and the things you can't see. Just thought I'd share. Sounds like a project.


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## Andee (Jul 25, 2017)

I think I figured out a good system... though I won't be posting it until I know for sure it does what I want XD.


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## mickiem (Jul 25, 2017)

Andee said:


> I think I figured out a good system... though I won't be posting it until I know for sure it does what I want XD.


I'm excited to see what you do!


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## Andee (Jul 25, 2017)

Ok so the wood (which is all fallen dry and dead oak branches from my local nature paths, none were really rotting much on their own yet, but once I put them in the enclosure for a few weeks they will with the moisture)... I put on a large pot that is used for only for my animal stuff full of water and put heat on it until the bubbles started simmering, I then turned off the heat and put all my wood sticks in it. Let them sit in the really hot water until it cooled and I could touch it. I then turned the oven on to 200 F, and then spread them out, and baked them from about 2 hours or so. They now are super crumbly, I will be putting them in a super moist substrate  in the beginning. After I finish pasteurizing. Currently I am not sure if I have to worry about mites or not if I don't put springtails in... Do you use springtails with you millis @mickiem ?


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## mickiem (Jul 25, 2017)

I had springtails arrive on their own. I eventually bought some giants but they seem to be what I already had. They must have been hitchhiking with something I added. I am sure they do great work but two of my enclosures are wrought with them and I'd love to diminish their numbers. Both have tiny baby's and probably eggs so I am at a loss. 

That's exciting about your wood. Are you going to let it "settle" without animals?  That's what I started doing. Not sure if it helps. I stir through it to keep anaerobic bacteria from growing. But I try to make it ahead so it will start rotting real nice.


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## Andee (Jul 25, 2017)

I will be, I have a month if not more to get the substrate sorted out. If I need to I will add a springtail colony (I have plenty of species of insects and reptiles who will eat excess), but I would enjoy being able to not have to rely on them because they do explode rather badly when happy XD. I figure a month or more would be good enough for the soil to kind... of... settle or whatever ? XD. I have several things going into it. So I kind of have to bake it at different times.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## mickiem (Jul 26, 2017)

Andee said:


> Ok so the wood (which is all fallen dry and dead oak branches from my local nature paths, none were really rotting much on their own yet, but once I put them in the enclosure for a few weeks they will with the moisture)... I put on a large pot that is used for only for my animal stuff full of water and put heat on it until the bubbles started simmering, I then turned off the heat and put all my wood sticks in it. Let them sit in the really hot water until it cooled and I could touch it. I then turned the oven on to 200 F, and then spread them out, and baked them from about 2 hours or so. They now are super crumbly, I will be putting them in a super moist substrate  in the beginning. After I finish pasteurizing. Currently I am not sure if I have to worry about mites or not if I don't put springtails in... Do you use springtails with you millis @mickiem ?


I'm pretty sure the only problem with springtails with millipedes is the population explosions.  I have been trying to pull fresh food out after a day and hopefully lots of springtails go out with it.  Maddening.


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## Andee (Jul 26, 2017)

Lmao that's what I am worried most about, but if I can get away safely without having to use springtails that'd be wonderful. I currently don't have any at my disposal. I thought I had some since I thought I had seeded an enclosure with them but it seems they had gotten out competed by another group of cleaners?Not sure since I thought that group of cleaners was growing very slowly XD oh well. I will likely trade for them if it comes to that point. I have a few things that some people may want for a good group of springtails to seed.


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## Andee (Jul 27, 2017)

@mickiem what type of mushrooms would you suggest drying for the millis?


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## mickiem (Jul 28, 2017)

Andee said:


> @mickiem what type of mushrooms would you suggest drying for the millis?


Whatever kind of organic mushroom is on sale!  I have fed white button, shiitake and baby Bella and they eat them all. I dry them to a near brittle stage and then chop them into a coarse crumble. I use it to feed when I'm on a trip so I don't have to pay someone to come over and feed millipedes. The dry mushrooms have never molded on the surface and other dried food does mold. I also drip some pure, organic maple syrup and dried leaves into the enclosures. 

= my vacation nanny!


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## Andee (Jul 28, 2017)

Maple syrup? Does that give energy after or before molts? 

I have tons of organic mushrooms near me, and wild ones that collected during mushroom season and brought to local markets or farmer's market. So I can find some interesting stuff.


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## Andee (Jul 30, 2017)

Had to share, it is currently finished, it has no aspen shavings currently. But I am not too worried currently. The top is mostly sphagnum moss (that is annoyingly hard to mix in) that I wanted to mix some in, so it's now covered in dirt and some bits of wood, and oak leaves etc. 



I have some oyster shell just sprinkled regularly through out here, everytime put in a new layer of dirt etc, I put like 1 teaspoon of oyster shell, currently do not have any bird grit so I plan to get a bit later on. It is a good amount of things in here that will make plenty of happy millis, but I thing adding a few beneficial extras would be good, for now this will sit on it's own. This is currently just the holding container. I will be putting the baby millis in something smaller, at least in the beginning, this would make me nervous. I have some crumbly large sticky logs that I will put in their container when it's time. But for now this is all good. 

Oh I did organic shitake mushrooms in my dehydrator today 8D


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## mickiem (Jul 30, 2017)

Andee said:


> Had to share, it is currently finished, it has no aspen shavings currently. But I am not too worried currently. The top is mostly sphagnum moss (that is annoyingly hard to mix in) that I wanted to mix some in, so it's now covered in dirt and some bits of wood, and oak leaves etc.
> View attachment 247355
> 
> 
> ...


Looks great!  Did you add coir?  It isn't edible, but helps to hold tunnels together.

The maple syrup is just another supplemental food source.  I guess it would provide energy, but I use it mainly if I am leaving town for a week or more.  It doesn't attract any microfauna.  Orin wrote about it in his books, suggesting to give it to pedelings for a constant food source, so I also put it in any enclosures with babies.  You can watch the millipedes curl around a piece of substrate with maple syrup.  They love it!

I always start baby millis in a deep container but with shallow substrate.  That way I can add a handful or two as they grow without too much disturbance.  

I spent all day Saturday in some woods collecting oak, maple walnut and birch.  I didn't find hickory or beech, but I will get those this week.


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## 7Fin (Jul 30, 2017)

What's this about maple syrup? I'm leaving for a week on holidays soon, what maple syrup should I use and would it be safe for my Centrobolus Sp.?


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## mickiem (Jul 30, 2017)

7Fin said:


> What's this about maple syrup? I'm leaving for a week on holidays soon, what maple syrup should I use and would it be safe for my Centrobolus Sp.?


I use PURE and organic.  Maple syrup is often mixed with lots of sugary additives.  PURE is what you should look for.  You can feed it all of the time; I just feed to babies as a rule, then when I am on holiday, I use is then.  I use a dropper and probably put 3-5 drops per pede.  I also sprinkle crumbled, dried mushrooms.  Neither of these two things mold or draw sub fauna to the surface in the time I use them.  I would try it before you leave though; make sure you know the result first.

I think anything safe for other pedes would be fine for your _Centrobolus_.


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## Andee (Jul 30, 2017)

I did add Coco Coir but only like... a maximum of 4 quarts, just to kind of fluff up the compost and make it easier to move in and hold tunnels etc. Otherwise EVERY thing else is composting soil, oak leaves, oak wood, spaghnum moss, and some sprinkles of the oyster shell. Idk how much of the soil there is over all... enough to make moving the bin in general a pain because it's so heavy. But the composting soil I got was completely organic after I read it aggressively online and on the label, and after I opened it up it had the dark nutrient rich look and smell I would expect.


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