# Officially lost my mind. (OBT...)



## soundsmith (Sep 25, 2015)

This is it for a while. It has to be. Picked up this ~2.75" OBT RCF from a local dealer today after work. That makes my 4th tarantula in as many weeks. He had several to choose from, all from the same sac, but this one had a molt still in the deli cup with it which I was excited to get a chance to check out, and he seemed to be the largest out of the group. I have been wanting one of these since day 1, watched hours of video of this species on youtube and practically read a book's worth of posts on here. Made sure to be very calm, calculated and smooth when transferring, used the bathtub as well, anticipating a full-blown escape situation. He was not happy with me removing the lid, which had about 95% of the substrate attached via webbing. Struck the paintbrush once, I didn't even flinch because I knew it would happen, that's just what they do. I don't mean that in a braggadocios way at all, being prepared for the behavior helps tremendously to stay calm. Once I got that cleared out I could see that his fangs were black so I offered him a cricket and he seemed more than happy to accept it. Snapped a quick photo and after that it took a single paintbrush stroke to the abdomen and he walked out calmly. He's so orange! I love it. Really anxious to see the enclosure bombed with silk after a few days.

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## Ellenantula (Sep 25, 2015)

Handsome T!

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## soundsmith (Sep 25, 2015)

Thanks! He certainly is. So it's been about 40 minutes or so, he put some webbing down in the corner, a lot more than I expected so soon, and he actually dropped the cricket into it and he's just hanging out in the corner of the ceiling above it. Very interesting so far.


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## le-thomas (Sep 25, 2015)

Great choice. Be very wary at all times when working with the spider, and take no risks. This species is among the most difficult (and exciting!) to work with, in my experience. 

Have fun


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## soundsmith (Sep 25, 2015)

le-thomas said:


> Great choice. Be very wary at all times when working with the spider, and take no risks. This species is among the most difficult (and exciting!) to work with, in my experience.
> 
> Have fun


Thank you sir  For sure, any time that lid has to come off I'm fully aware he could end up biting me, will certainly be 100% on my A-game every time I interact with this one. I purposefully put him in a large enough (floorspace) enclosure that he can molt a few times in, that way I can minimize the frequency of transfers and the risk of being bit or a spider search party.


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## 14pokies (Sep 25, 2015)

Just a heads up.. Ts can still run up the side of the bathtub easily even when wet.. It mainly serves to slow most of your heavy bodied terrestrial species down enough for the keeper to react more rationally.

Its really inefective (especially with aboreals) and i think it lulls alot of new keepers into a sence of false security..  Not knocking your techniques just lettin ya know incase you didn't..

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## le-thomas (Sep 25, 2015)

14pokies said:


> Just a heads up.. Ts can still run up the side of the bathtub easily even when wet.. It mainly serves to slow most of your heavy bodied terrestrial species down enough for the keeper to react more rationally.
> 
> Its really inefective (especially with aboreals) and i think it lulls alot of new keepers into a sence of false security..  Not knocking your techniques just lettin ya know incase you didn't..


I've had a subadult OBT run out of its shipment container, out of the kritter keeper that the shipment container was in, out of the tub, and up the side wall of the shower before I could blink. Not a slow spider.

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## Ellenantula (Sep 25, 2015)

I don't like the bathtub method -- hurts my knees and back, and I am less agile all bent over a tub anyway -- slows my reflexes. I do rehousings on a tall table.

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## 14pokies (Sep 25, 2015)

Ellenantula said:


> I don't like the bathtub method -- hurts my knees and back, and I am less agile all bent over a tub anyway -- slows my reflexes. I do rehousings on a tall table.


Ditto.. Have wedged and herniated disks from a moto accident so this method won't work for me either physically.. I still sometimes sparingly advise newer keepers to use it with heavy slow terrestrials but thats for the newest of noobs that might loose a brachy if it decided to run.. 

I rehouse on a table myself and just make sure there aren't any good hiding spots for the T that i can't get to easily..

---------- Post added 09-25-2015 at 03:46 AM ----------




le-thomas said:


> I've had a subadult OBT run out of its shipment container, out of the kritter keeper that the shipment container was in, out of the tub, and up the side wall of the shower before I could blink. Not a slow spider.


Right! One of the fastest out there.. I love the way they look but hate working with them..

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## soundsmith (Sep 25, 2015)

Haha, I've certainly seen it happen. Honestly, it was more just to do it where there aren't things for him to run underneath and such - rather than the room I keep the others in, or anywhere else in the house with furniture and openings he'd find safe all over the place. The tub is just the lowest thing besides the floor itself, wouldn't want to do it on the counter top as that would just be a chance for a fall. Tarantulas can climb glass easily, I had no presumptions that the tub would do anything to stop him from going where he wanted to go. Just, given all the other options I had, the bathroom, and as such, the tub, was simply the most favorable. There's nowhere for him to hide in that bathroom, which meant retrieval would be much easier than anywhere else in the house in the event he wasn't going to go along.

My E. sp. Red, smithi and albo I just did right there on the table in the "T room" with no problem. But this guy, I expected him to bolt as soon as I opened the lid, so I wanted to minimize all the things that could go wrong as much as possible. Prepare for the worst, as they say.

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## 14pokies (Sep 25, 2015)

soundsmith said:


> Haha, I've certainly seen it happen. Honestly, it was more just to do it where there aren't things for him to run underneath and such - rather than the room I keep the others in, or anywhere else in the house with furniture and openings he'd find safe all over the place. The tub is just the lowest thing besides the floor itself, wouldn't want to do it on the counter top as that would just be a chance for a fall. Tarantulas can climb glass easily, I had no presumptions that the tub would do anything to stop him from going where he wanted to go. Just, given all the other options I had, the bathroom, and as such, the tub, was simply the most favorable. There's nowhere for him to hide in that bathroom, which meant retrieval would be much easier than anywhere else in the house in the event he wasn't going to go along.
> 
> My E. sp. Red, smithi and albo I just did right there on the table in the "T room" with no problem. But this guy, I expected him to bolt as soon as I opened the lid, so I wanted to minimize all the things that could go wrong as much as possible.


Thats really the whole concept of the bathtub method wich if called the bathroom method would clear up the misconception that the tub is a means to contain the spider if it doesn't go straight from container to container. 

Glad it went well for you.. I hope they all do!

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## Beary Strange (Sep 25, 2015)

le-thomas said:


> Great choice.


Great choice? A new keeper with an OBT? I'm going to go with um no.... Hopefully this doesn't turn out badly and reflect poorly on the hobby is all I can say.

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## le-thomas (Sep 25, 2015)

Belle Fury said:


> Great choice? A new keeper with an OBT? I'm going to go with um no.... Hopefully this doesn't turn out badly and reflect poorly on the hobby is all I can say.


Has it been expressly stated that this keeper is new? It has not, not in this thread, anyway. 

I sympathize with your concerns about the hobby.

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## lalberts9310 (Sep 25, 2015)

I really think an OBT as a 4th tarantula is a bad choice, they, IMHO, are for advanced keepers along with H. Maculata and S. Calceatum. I'm glad you handled the rehouse okay though. I also agree with 14 pokies on the bathtub. I like to use the bathroom though, as there's less chance for it to escape into somewhere I don't want it. I like doing it on a countertop and I usually use the bag method. Another great thing to do is to leave towels lying around if it does get away from you it most likely would choose to hide in the towels. And keep it dry, OBTs likes it dry.

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## BobGrill (Sep 25, 2015)

le-thomas said:


> Has it been expressly stated that this keeper is new? It has not, not in this thread, anyway.
> 
> I sympathize with your concerns about the hobby.


It sure seems like it. Didn't they say it was their 4th tarantula?  Obviously they haven't been in the hobby very long. What is up with all of these new keepers getting OBTs lately? 

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk


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## Tomoran (Sep 25, 2015)

Is the substrate in your photo damp, or is it just the pic (it just seems much darker than the obviously dry sub next to the T)?

I agree with 14pokies and Ellenantula that the bathtub method offers a false sense of security and can be a bit cumbersome (I just don't feel I can react fast enough on my knees and bent over the side of a tub). Maybe I'm just getting old, though. Still, to each his/her own; just know that they can scale the sides quite easily. 

I know it's been said a million times, but you honestly can't be prepared for how fast these guys move until you witness it personally. I've viewed many videos of tarantulas speeding around, whether it be OBTs, pokies, or another speedster, and it's a totally different ballgame when you're the one doing the transfer and you blink and the animal is gone. I thought I had quick reflexes, and it's humbling to see how much quicker these guys can move compared to how fast I can react. Obviously, this makes transfers particularly risky for those not used to dealing with fast tarantulas and their propensity to bolt. It might have just struck at the brush the first time, but it easily could have run up and tagged you. Just don't let the videos lull you into a false sense of security. 

Glad the rehouse went well...it's a beautiful specimen.

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## soundsmith (Sep 25, 2015)

Belle Fury said:


> Great choice? A new keeper with an OBT? I'm going to go with um no.... Hopefully this doesn't turn out badly and reflect poorly on the hobby is all I can say.


The problem with that logic is, even people that have kept tarantulas, including this species specifically, for umpteen years have been bitten, in some cases on more than one occasion, but that doesn't seem to really reflect poorly on the hobby. So even with all the experience in the world, it can happen any time. But because I'm new it is somehow different? The decision to get this species wasn't made on a whim. I did _boatloads_ of research. I've seen or read about all the terrible things that can and has happened with them, seen the bad decisions and the good ones, soaked up the information like a sponge. So, while I understand your concern, believe me when I say I'll be just fine, I promise.


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## Sam_Peanuts (Sep 25, 2015)

le-thomas said:


> Has it been expressly stated that this keeper is new? It has not, not in this thread, anyway.


From this thread:


soundsmith said:


> That makes my 4th tarantula in as many weeks.


[strike]So he got his first 4 weeks ago meaning he's pretty new.[/strike]

[strike]A bit too new for my taste, but he seems to be handling it well so far so it's a good sign.[/strike]
I would simply have left the deli cup inside his new enclosure and wait for it to come out with the lid closed and then get back the deli cup once that's done since it makes things even easier and safer(I still do that sometimes even after 12 years of owning some) if I'm not in a hurry. No point in "poking" an OBT if you don't have to.

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## cold blood (Sep 25, 2015)

He didn't say it was his 4th t, he said it was his fourth in as many weeks.  He doesn't list his ts in his profile, for all we know he has 20 others.

I like the bathtub method, but also have a really temperamental back.   While ts can climb it, the wide and fairly open smooth space gives one time to react a little more and control the situation.  I've had really fast ts bolt, but all were easily controlled .   When I pack for shipping I prefer them to be running into the tub, as I can easily get them into my bottle and right into the shipping container easily and quickly.    

To alleviate the spinal pain bending down, I sometimes put an ottoman (footfest) in the tub so I don't have to work hunched over.   Helps with my discomfort while still allowing some semblance of control should I get a bolter.   I've housed and re-housed 100's in the tub and have yet to have one actually make it up and out of the actual tub part...and I don't keep too many slow ts.    Just always be prepared with a stiff piece of paper and tools to guide the t and the tub, while not a perfect all encompassing solution, can certainly give you the extra bit or time and space to maintain control if you understand what you are doing.     Maybe my tub is just smoother than some others though, as it certainly doesn't seem very grippy for the spiders IME.

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## Sam_Peanuts (Sep 25, 2015)

cold blood said:


> He didn't say it was his 4th t, he said it was his fourth in as many weeks.


You're absolutely right, I'm pretty disappointed in myself for not realizing that.


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## Chris LXXIX (Sep 25, 2015)

A very easy to care _Theraphosidae_. They love bone dry, a water dish is enough for mantain humidity for a juvenile/adult (always full, of course). 

I offered to my AF, after the re-house in her final enclosure, a good 7 inches of substrate, and a piece of cork bark for hide (she burrowed under). Mine is at night always in the open like a "Genic".

I noticed also that - while those are indeed hardy and very adaptable to different enviroments, T's - their first choice is always to burrow a bit (not like a _Pelinobius muticus_, i mean) or to use an hide. This, along with good inches of substrate, IMO sometimes prevent the "OBT web everywhere enclosure", meaning for me, more "easy" to do maintenance and refill the water dish, since they are very very fast and badass.

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## 14pokies (Sep 25, 2015)

BobGrill said:


> What is up with all of these new keepers getting OBTs lately?
> 
> Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk


Lately? Umm... You mean like for the last 5yrs? Its eye candy and machismo how can they resist? Lol..

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## Poec54 (Sep 25, 2015)

cold blood said:


> He didn't say it was his 4th t, he said it was his fourth in as many weeks.  He doesn't list his ts in his profile, for all we know he has 20 others.



Perhaps the OP can fill out his profile page, so we can offer more specific advice.

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## lalberts9310 (Sep 25, 2015)

Luckily it's not a noob saying "I'm scared to rehouse my OBT, what should I do?", he shared his success in rehousing an OBT which he obviously did well enough.

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## widowkeeper (Sep 25, 2015)

honestly it doesn't matter how long you have been a keeper or how experienced you think you are, watch a thousand videos or own a thousand other tarantulas. bottom line they move faster then you can, if they choose to they will bolt bite and disappear befor you even finish flinching at the blur that was a tarantula. i can not count the times i have had to chase down a loose tarantula i am lucky i have never been bit . i attribute that to how i care for my tarantulas and just luck  i keep them fed and leave them alone and dont rush transfers
 honestly it doesnt matter what you get for a first tarantula to advise ppl that owning a docile species to start and work your way up is a mistake it builds a fasle sence of confidence and control there is no way to prepare for something you cannot control or beat all you can do is be cautious and in control of your reactions poor judgment and an inability to calmy handel an excapee is how you get bit 
  all the whining and complaining about noobs getting obts and vilos etc all the oh no the hobby will suffer when you get bit is pathetic lets be honest you cannot ready someone for the experience thats a obt either they have the nerve to do it understand the danger or they dont thinking your ready or experienced enough is the first most common mistake.  telling ppl that you can gain what it takes to handel them by owning others is as much a failure on our part as flaming them for choosing one (too soon) ppl come here to share in the vast knowledge and meet like minded individuals they should be welcomed and supported in their choices not chastised or given a false sence of compitince 

what it really requires to own a obt
1 acceptance that in a race you will lose obt>your reaction time 
2 understanding reality  obt>your thought process it works like this. obt hide-teleport-bite or hide-bite-teleport.. you. here i go - um where is it.. or simply ouch
3.respect it its in your possession but not your control  

accept that and your as ready as anyone

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## le-thomas (Sep 25, 2015)

BobGrill said:


> What is up with all of these new keepers getting OBTs lately?
> 
> Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk


They're colorful, cheap, always available, and have that "cool" factor. Sort of unfortunate that they aren't being warned beforehand.

However, I got an OBT pretty early, and my first OW was an H. mac. It all depends on the person. Working with my rose hair and G. pulchripes did not help me prepare for OW speed and behavior. Working with OW speed and behavior firsthand did that.

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## soundsmith (Sep 25, 2015)

I would like to clarify once more that I had no assumptions that using a tub meant nothing would happen. It's only a false sense of security if you let it be. If you do even just a tiny bit of research it's obviously not some magical solution. When you've seen over a dozen videos of an OBT bolting up the side of a tub and up a shower wall it's pretty apparent that you can expect the same result as a definite possibility. It's simply the most favorable area of the house to transfer in my opinion. Compared to some of you who are more experienced yet would transfer something like an OBT on a table in a room of their house with all kinds of hiding places to choose from, I'd say I was actually more careful and responsible in how I went about it, honestly.

Now, to be perfectly clear, yes, I am completely new to the hobby. My first tarantula arrived on September 1st, which means I have exactly 25 days of experience right now. But the point I was trying to make with my previous reply was to stress the fact that whether I have 25 days or 25 years of experience, it literally makes zero difference to the tarantula. You can make a mistake no matter how experienced you are. The only way to prepare is to know it can happen, expect the unexpected, and never be complacent. Beyond that, at the end of the day, you must understand that you will always be at the mercy of a wild animal in captivity and all you can do is try to be ready for it and accept it if you get tagged. That's how I have been approaching tarantulas thus far, and I think there is no other way to go about it. I may not have adhered to someone's prerequisite "upgrade path" of tarantulas in ascending order of difficulty, but that is completely arbitrary. And maybe _you_ weren't ready in the same time-frame for something like an OBT, but not everyone is the same and nobody can be truly, fully prepared anyway. I can't help the fact that some people fail to do proper research or prepare themselves, I can only worry about myself. I mean, I could have waited for two years to get my first OBT and got every in-between species before doing so, bla bla bla.... only to get bit the very first time I opened the lid. But if I did, the response would be "it happens" instead of "you got one way too soon." Experience is practically useless in this regard. Preparedness is king.

If you want to talk about being lulled into a false sense of security, take a good look at how much some of you are stressing experience and thinking it truly matters with any wild animal. Everyone that's been bit probably thought they had plenty of experience right up to the moment of the incident. How much of that experience made any kind of difference in the end, though?



14pokies said:


> Lately? Umm... You mean like for the last 5yrs? Its eye candy and machismo how can they resist? Lol..


I know, or hope at least, you aren't saying or thinking I'm one of them. There's certainly a fair share of people that get one for those reasons, but I don't agree with their thinking and I think people like that have no business getting into the hobby as it's for all the wrong reasons. I didn't get this species to show off or think I'm a badass, that would be incredibly stupid and irresponsible, and that's just not the kind of person that I am. I got him because since I first saw one, yes, they look awesome, but as I did research into their behavior, their characteristics and tendencies, how they web up the their living space, and so on, I was just absolutely fascinated. Just like with my other specimens it wasn't because it would be "cool" or something to show off to my friends, it's from pure intrigue, wonder and amazement - I'm sure everyone here can relate. I want to learn everything I can about these animals and experience them first hand, but as safely as possible and with only the best intentions.



			
				Tomoran said:
			
		

> Is the substrate in your photo damp, or is it just the pic (it just seems much darker than the obviously dry sub next to the T)?


Just the pic, sub in the enclosure is bone dry.

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## lalberts9310 (Sep 25, 2015)

le-thomas said:


> They're colorful, cheap, always available, and have that "cool" factor. Sort of unfortunate that they aren't being warned beforehand.
> 
> However, I got an OBT pretty early, and my first OW was an H. mac. It all depends on the person. Working with my rose hair and G. pulchripes did not help me prepare for OW speed and behavior. Working with OW speed and behavior firsthand did that.


Psalmopoeus and Tapinauchenius are great bridging genera. Obviously a grammostola won't be great for preparation. But I can definitely say from 1st hand experience Psalmopoeus are really great if you want to get a taste of what an OW is like. I had several psalmos before getting my 1st OW. And honestly if I havn't had 1st hand experience with the Psalmopoeus genus, I wouldn't have been ready for Poecilotheria. Why I strongly recommend them before diving into OWs.

I'm a strong believer that newcomers should not get OWs yet, before they have some experience under their belt with more forgiving genera.

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## KristinaMG (Sep 25, 2015)

OP, there's a big difference between theory and practice.  When I say that retrospectively I was not ready for my OBT, it wasn't because I hadn't researched.  Knowing something to be true is not the same as experiencing that truth first hand.  Knowing what you should do in xyz situations does not instantly translate to correct action in the heat of the moment.  If things start to go wrong you are way more likely to panic and lose all that information you've taught yourself compared to an experienced keeper than has BTDT many times.  On that note, a part of me still wonders if I am really "ready" for my OBT, who I have had for 9 months.  I got my first T over a year ago, and currently have 14 total (though all but 6 of them are slings).  My OBT was purchased as an adult, so I do not expect to have to rehouse it again.  I'm not 100% confident that I could do that again and do it well without the same dose of luck I had last time.  Sometimes the more you know, the more you realize how little you know.  That's how I feel the more I get into this hobby.

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## widowkeeper (Sep 25, 2015)

, there's a big difference between theory and practice     yes that is true but experience does not = mentality capable you either have it or you think you aquire it through experience 

its not the tarantulas that are the problem. its us there are those of us that know what we can endure and stay within our capabilitys  and those who try to step beyond that boundry, you know the one we all subconsciously place on ourselves and others bassed on our physical and mental capabilitys as we see them

there is one way to prepare its called acceptance, of the facts, know the possible dangers know your capabilitys and hope you make the right choice 
that is your choice to make not mine i have no right to push you one way or another

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## soundsmith (Sep 25, 2015)

KristinaMG said:
			
		

> OP, there's a big difference between theory and practice.  When I say that retrospectively I was not ready for my OBT, it wasn't because I hadn't researched.  Knowing something to be true is not the same as experiencing that truth first hand.  Knowing what you should do in xyz situations does not instantly translate to correct action in the heat of the moment.  If things start to go wrong you are way more likely to panic and lose all that information you've taught yourself compared to an experienced keeper than has BTDT many times.  On that note, a part of me still wonders if I am really "ready" for my OBT, who I have had for 9 months.  I got my first T over a year ago, and currently have 14 total (though all but 6 of them are slings).  My OBT was purchased as an adult, so I do not expect to have to rehouse it again.  I'm not 100% confident that I could do that again and do it well without the same dose of luck I had last time.  Sometimes the more you know, the more you realize how little you know.  That's how I feel the more I get into this hobby.


Of course there is a difference, I hope that would be obvious to anyone and I think I made it quite clear I realize that distinction. Someone like, for example, RobC, who obviously has a passion for pokies especially and by all accounts is lightyears ahead of myself in terms of experience and certainly has been-there-done-that. Yet, take a look at his channel on YouTube and you will find a handful of videos where he _still_ got bit. He even explains in some of those instances that he simply reacted in the wrong way despite all the experience he has and is merely lucky that the tarantula was not hurt from him jerking away or dropping the lid that the spider was on, etc. Reacting the proper way in any given situation is a challenge regardless of the amount of experience any one person has. We are human, after all, and just like these animals we will still act on instinct in the right circumstances. I could have 10 years under my belt and still do the wrong thing at the wrong time. These animals, even the most docile, are unpredictable. The best approach is to respect that, and I think it should be pretty apparent by now that I'm not going about this haphazardly by any means.


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## KristinaMG (Sep 25, 2015)

widowkeeper said:


> , there's a big difference between theory and practice     yes that is true but experience does not = mentality capable you either have it or you think you aquire it through experience
> 
> its not the tarantulas that are the problem. its us there are those of us that know what we can endure and stay within our capabilitys  and those who try to step beyond that boundry, you know the one we all subconsciously place on ourselves and others bassed on our physical and mental capabilitys as we see them
> 
> ...


Respectfully disagree.  People absolutely gain skill with experience.  This is why most people want to be operated on by an experienced surgeon versus a kid right out of med school.  This is also why I'd never let my teenage self drive my kids around, but now, at 30, am an excellent driver.  With Ts having troubleshooted and learned "on the job" with slower, calmer, NW species is definitely a smarter way to prepare so that your skill level is there when you get a faster, more challenging species.  It's not really debatable.  Experience still matters, regardless of whatever natural talent (or lack of talent) you may have at your starting point.

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## BobGrill (Sep 25, 2015)

soundsmith said:


> I would like to clarify once more that I had no assumptions that using a tub meant nothing would happen. It's only a false sense of security if you let it be. If you do even just a tiny bit of research it's obviously not some magical solution. When you've seen over a dozen videos of an OBT bolting up the side of a tub and up a shower wall it's pretty apparent that you can expect the same result as a definite possibility. It's simply the most favorable area of the house to transfer in my opinion. Compared to some of you who are more experienced yet would transfer something like an OBT on a table in a room of their house with all kinds of hiding places to choose from, I'd say I was actually more careful and responsible in how I went about it, honestly.
> 
> Now, to be perfectly clear, yes, I am completely new to the hobby. My first tarantula arrived on September 1st, which means I have exactly 25 days of experience right now. But the point I was trying to make with my previous reply was to stress the fact that whether I have 25 days or 25 years of experience, it literally makes zero difference to the tarantula. You can make a mistake no matter how experienced you are. The only way to prepare is to know it can happen, expect the unexpected, and never be complacent. Beyond that, at the end of the day, you must understand that you will always be at the mercy of a wild animal in captivity and all you can do is try to be ready for it and accept it if you get tagged. That's how I have been approaching tarantulas thus far, and I think there is no other way to go about it. I may not have adhered to someone's prerequisite "upgrade path" of tarantulas in ascending order of difficulty, but that is completely arbitrary. And maybe _you_ weren't ready in the same time-frame for something like an OBT, but not everyone is the same and nobody can be truly, fully prepared anyway. I can't help the fact that some people fail to do proper research or prepare themselves, I can only worry about myself. I mean, I could have waited for two years to get my first OBT and got every in-between species before doing so, bla bla bla.... only to get bit the very first time I opened the lid. But if I did, the response would be "it happens" instead of "you got one way too soon." Experience is practically useless in this regard. Preparedness is king.
> 
> ...


It's not really that simple. You forgot that things like that affect the rest of us in the hobby. Germany has already banned Poecilotheria species. 

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## lalberts9310 (Sep 25, 2015)

soundsmith said:


> Of course there is a difference, I hope that would be obvious to anyone and I think I made it quite clear I realize that distinction. Someone like, for example, RobC, who obviously has a passion for pokies especially and by all accounts is lightyears ahead of myself in terms of experience and certainly has been-there-done-that. Yet, take a look at his channel on YouTube and you will find a handful of videos where he _still_ got bit. He even explains in some of those instances that he simply reacted in the wrong way despite all the experience he has and is merely lucky that the tarantula was not hurt from him jerking away or dropping the lid that the spider was on, etc. Reacting the proper way in any given situation is a challenge regardless of the amount of experience any one person has. We are human, after all, and just like these animals we will still act on instinct in the right circumstances. I could have 10 years under my belt and still do the wrong thing at the wrong time. These animals, even the most docile, are unpredictable. The best approach is to respect that, and I think it should be pretty apparent by now that I'm not going about this haphazardly by any means.


OP, I understand what you are trying to say, but IMHO opinion, while Robc is great and all, he still got somewhat complacent around his tarantulas, and he liked handling some of them as well. But then you get Rick (Poec54) who has almost 40 years experience with mainly OWs, he has 100s of tarantulas, and he never got bit - goes to show it can be done. Not bashing you or anytjing, I do agree, you can get bit even if you do everything right. And honestly I really like how you approached this matter and your way of thinking about the situation. But it's still best for newcomers to work their way up. Yes you do get those exceptions where the person can handle a OW even as a 1st, but its rare. And this is not only the sake for you and the tarantula, but those around you, be it friends, family or neighbours, and for the sake of our hobby. Why most members on here are dead set against getting OWs too soon. Again, not bashing or anything, just saying, and I really hope you'll handle future rehouses as well as you did this one, especially when the T decided to bolt into somewhere you don't want it or expect it to.

And for those who don't believe bans can't and doesn't happen: florida banned some genera for a couple of years, parts of germany banned poecilotheria, and today I heard the horrid news that South-Africa is contemplating on banning exotic animals, meaning if we can't stop it, i'll lose my tarantulas and my birds. It happens.

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## Chris LXXIX (Sep 25, 2015)

BobGrill said:


> Germany has already banned Poecilotheria species.
> 
> Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk


Are you completely sure about that? Last time i checked, in Marbach, they were still available; and while true, indeed, there's a bit of concern about _Poecilotheria_ sp. (in some Lander especially, if i'm not wrong) i'm not sure if that ban is already "on", or they are still into the "discussion about" part.


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## BobGrill (Sep 25, 2015)

Chris LXXIX said:


> Are you completely sure about that? Last time i checked, in Marbach, they were still available; and while true, indeed, there's a bit of concern about _Poecilotheria_ sp. (in some Lander especially, if i'm not wrong) i'm not sure if that ban is already "on", or they are still into the "discussion about" part.


Parts of Germany did I know. 

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk


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## Chris LXXIX (Sep 25, 2015)

soundsmith said:


> Someone like, for example, RobC, who obviously has a passion for pokies especially and by all accounts is lightyears ahead of myself in terms of experience and certainly has been-there-done-that. Yet, take a look at his channel on YouTube and you will find a handful of videos where he _still_ got bit


Let me tell you this. I have nothing personal against him, nor i know tarantulaguy1976.. but i don't view him exactly as a serious keeper, nor as an example.

Granted.. years into T's keeping (like me, almost 25 years) but just exactly like the majority of users here.

But watch this (well, you probably already know this video) video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbhM6xgK3Mc

Now, with ALL the respect and love he had for Zilla, his beloved T.. this isn't a good example of keeping a _Theraphosidae_. The T crawling everywhere.. in his back.. etc. Seriously?

Those who teached me the basics, here in Italy, in 1991 (in an obviously no internet era) were more prepared.

Here there's people like Poec54, cold blood, 14pokies and a lot of other people, IMO, more prepared and serious than him.

Had the feeling (not by you OP) that RobC was put on a sort of.. pedestal, by too much people, especially years ago.

That's my honest opinion.

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## 14pokies (Sep 25, 2015)

soundsmith said:


> I would like to clarify once more that I had no assumptions that using a tub meant nothing would happen. It's only a false sense of security if you let it be. If you do even just a tiny bit of research it's obviously not some magical solution. When you've seen over a dozen videos of an OBT bolting up the side of a tub and up a shower wall it's pretty apparent that you can expect the same result as a definite possibility. It's simply the most favorable area of the house to transfer in my opinion. Compared to some of you who are more experienced yet would transfer something like an OBT on a table in a room of their house with all kinds of hiding places to choose from, I'd say I was actually more careful and responsible in how I went about it, honestly.
> 
> Now, to be perfectly clear, yes, I am completely new to the hobby. My first tarantula arrived on September 1st, which means I have exactly 25 days of experience right now. But the point I was trying to make with my previous reply was to stress the fact that whether I have 25 days or 25 years of experience, it literally makes zero difference to the tarantula. You can make a mistake no matter how experienced you are. The only way to prepare is to know it can happen, expect the unexpected, and never be complacent. Beyond that, at the end of the day, you must understand that you will always be at the mercy of a wild animal in captivity and all you can do is try to be ready for it and accept it if you get tagged. That's how I have been approaching tarantulas thus far, and I think there is no other way to go about it. I may not have adhered to someone's prerequisite "upgrade path" of tarantulas in ascending order of difficulty, but that is completely arbitrary. And maybe _you_ weren't ready in the same time-frame for something like an OBT, but not everyone is the same and nobody can be truly, fully prepared anyway. I can't help the fact that some people fail to do proper research or prepare themselves, I can only worry about myself. I mean, I could have waited for two years to get my first OBT and got every in-between species before doing so, bla bla bla.... only to get bit the very first time I opened the lid. But if I did, the response would be "it happens" instead of "you got one way too soon." Experience is practically useless in this regard. Preparedness is king.
> 
> ...


No was just makeing a generalized statement in responce to Mr. Grills post..  You IMO are wrong though about experience with other species not being beneficial.( others have stated the benefits so i wont bother) 

 The longer you keep murinus and get to see there temperamental quirks you will see why most of us dont reccomend them..  

There are many reasons to keep them and many reqsons why they aren't really worth keeping.You already have the spider though and you seem level headed so hopefully you won't run into any snags..

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## soundsmith (Sep 25, 2015)

I never doubted certain species or all tarantulas outright have been banned in some places, it's a fact that they have been. My stance was just that experienced keepers are, ultimately, and irrefutably, just as likely to be the victim of a wild animal doing wild animal things. I'm simply not the amateur keeper some of you fear, getting whatever species I feel like, all willy-nilly without doing research or thinking about the consequences. If I ever experience a bite I'd honestly keep it to myself other than posting about it on this forum, you don't need to worry about me running to a news outlet to make a fuss and putting the hobby in danger. If it came down to needing medical attention, I had planned on just playing dumb rather than telling them anything about my collection. They don't need to know anything about it in order to treat me anyway.

I have taken all of this in stride and sincerely considered everyone's viewpoints, I know it's coming from a place of genuine concern for the well-being of a keeper and the animals, and the hobby, but really I think all of this is better reserved for someone who actually needs to hear it.


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## Chris LXXIX (Sep 25, 2015)

BobGrill said:


> Parts of Germany did I know.
> 
> Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk


And can i ask you which ones?


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## widowkeeper (Sep 25, 2015)

i am not saying experience doesnt better a person but to think your experiences with other tarantulas be it one year or 20 does not make you any more qualified then anyone else trying to control any tarantula that is faster meaner then you  

you cant compare a dr to owning a obt totaly different mental requirements 
my first baby was born when i was 17 i drove her everywhere but i never once allowed her or any of my others to  drive with my father or many other members of family dispite many more years experince driving then i  
as for on the job training i have been a shop manager for most of my working career and ill will tell you. you either have it or you dont sure practice makes you better but some ppl are only capable of so much 

my point stands either you have what it takes or you dont no amount of experiance will change that. can you over come failure with hard work and practice sure some ppl can but at what cost you yourself admitted you were not ready despite all the effort you put into it if you think your docile or fast harmless t experiance perpares you in anyway for a full blowen obt rampage your mistaken its not about what you do or have done its how you handel and deal with a situation thats out of control are you capable of taking control or does fear and incompetence rule your mind 

your mistaken you are comparing a nerf gun to a real one playing with a toy an acceptabl way to prepare for a real one  cause thats the diffence in my book 
by your logic your daily interaction with strangers should be enough experiance to handel a violent preson in fight or flight mode 

only way to really test mental an physical capabilities is to prepare accept it and do it for some ppl thats reading/ watching others. trial and error .but no one ever knows if they are capable till it happens anything else is a false sence of control

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## soundsmith (Sep 25, 2015)

14pokies said:


> You IMO are wrong though about experience with other species not being beneficial.( others have stated the benefits so i wont bother)


I never once said or alluded to other species, stepping stones if you will, not being beneficial, for the record. For some people it would definitely benefit them. I just didn't feel it was necessary in my case, because I know what kind of person I am and how I go about things I get into.

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## KristinaMG (Sep 25, 2015)

soundsmith said:


> I never doubted certain species or all tarantulas outright have been banned in some places, it's a fact that they have been. My stance was just that experienced keepers are, ultimately, and irrefutably, just as likely to be the victim of a wild animal doing wild animal things. I'm simply not the amateur keeper some of you fear, getting whatever species I feel like, all willy-nilly without doing research or thinking about the consequences. If I ever experience a bite I'd honestly keep it to myself other than posting about it on this forum, you don't need to worry about me running to a news outlet to make a fuss and putting the hobby in danger. If it came down to needing medical attention, I had planned on just playing dumb rather than telling them anything about my collection. They don't need to know anything about it in order to treat me anyway.
> 
> I have taken all of this in stride and sincerely considered everyone's viewpoints, I know it's coming from a place of genuine concern for the well-being of a keeper and the animals, and the hobby, but really I think all of this is better reserved for someone who actually needs to hear it.


I'm not trying to be argumentative, and you don't seem like you are an irresponsible person just getting a dangerous T for yourself thoughtlessly.  No one thinks that from reading your post.  But you are WRONG when you say: "My stance was just that experienced keepers are, ultimately, and irrefutably, just as likely to be the victim of a wild animal doing wild animal things."  That is simply not true.  To use the driving metaphor again, yes, anyone, no matter how experienced and how expertly they drive can be the victim of a car accident through no technical fault on their part.  Crap happens.  But it would be incorrect to say, as you have said re Ts, that "an experienced driver is just as likely to be the victim of an accident [as an inexperienced driver]."  Someone with less experience is way more likely to be in an accident!  The reality is that yes, these are unpredictable animals and someone could get bit through no human error, BUT that statement does not account for bites, escapes, or T injury (even death) due to keeper error.  Those errors are way more likely to occur to a beginner versus an experienced keeper.  That is a fact.  And it confuses me that people try to debate it.

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## soundsmith (Sep 25, 2015)

KristinaMG said:


> I'm not trying to be argumentative, and you don't seem like you are an irresponsible person just getting a dangerous T for yourself thoughtlessly.  No one thinks that from reading your post.  But you are WRONG when you say: "My stance was just that experienced keepers are, ultimately, and irrefutably, just as likely to be the victim of a wild animal doing wild animal things."  That is simply not true.  To use the driving metaphor again, yes, anyone, no matter how experienced and how expertly they drive can be the victim of a car accident through no technical fault on their part.  Shit happens.  But it would be incorrect to say, as you have said re Ts, that "an experienced driver is just as likely to be the victim of an accident [as an inexperienced driver]."  Someone with less experience is way more likely to be in an accident!  The reality is that yes, these are unpredictable animals and someone could get bit through no human error, BUT that statement does not account for bites, escapes, or T injury (even death) due to keeper error.  Those errors are way more likely to occur to a beginner versus an experienced keeper.  That is a fact.  And it confuses me that people try to debate it.


I agree with you that inexperience definitely opens the door wider, sorry if I came off otherwise. But it is completely subjective to the individual in question, which you acknowledge. Everything I have said thus far was intended to be referring to myself, not others. I think that distinction probably could have been more apparent on my part.


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## BobGrill (Sep 25, 2015)

Chris LXXIX said:


> And can i ask you which ones?


I'm not sure to be honest, I live in the U.S.

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk


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## 14pokies (Sep 25, 2015)

soundsmith said:


> I never once said or alluded to other species, stepping stones if you will, not being beneficial, for the record. For some people it would definitely benefit them. I just didn't feel it was necessary in my case, because I know what kind of person I am and how I go about things I get into.


I was saying that I think your wrong for thinking that it wont benefit you.. I used to be a breeder and reseller and alot of my buisiness was done at expos..  At almost Every show people were giving up there OBTs because of there attitudes.. The story is always the same it goes bad from the start or is good for a little bit but then the ooop: moment happens and they are freaked out by what the T is capable of..  Happens all the time.. 

I find its less of a dramatic story with people that have kept multiple agro species for a long time before jumping on the murinus bandwagon.. Its the newer keepers that tend to have the worst experiences and its because they lack experience..  

Im not trying to convince you im right just relaying my own experiences surrounding this species..

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## soundsmith (Sep 25, 2015)

14pokies said:


> I was saying that I think your wrong for thinking that it wont benefit you.. I used to be a breeder and reseller and alot of my buisiness was done at expos..  At almost Every show people were giving up there OBTs because of there attitudes.. The story is always the same it goes bad from the start or is good for a little bit but then the ooop: moment happens and they are freaked out by what the T is capable of..  Happens all the time..
> 
> I find its less of a dramatic story with people that have kept multiple agro species for a long time before jumping on the murinus bandwagon.. Its the newer keepers that tend to have the worst experiences and its because they lack experience..
> 
> Im not trying to convince you im right just relaying my own experiences surrounding this species..


And I definitely appreciate it. It never hurts to hear more experiences. I think, though, that probably most of those cases they didn't really understand what they were getting into. It was pretty obvious to me how difficult they are to work with, how dangerous, how quick and so on really early on in my research. As I dived deeper it only became more clear that this species is not to be taken lightly, but I still felt comfortable, eventually anyway, moving up as soon as I did. And I have to say, the difficulty was actually more of a draw for me.


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## lalberts9310 (Sep 25, 2015)

soundsmith said:


> I never doubted certain species or all tarantulas outright have been banned in some places, it's a fact that they have been. My stance was just that experienced keepers are, ultimately, and irrefutably, just as likely to be the victim of a wild animal doing wild animal things. I'm simply not the amateur keeper some of you fear, getting whatever species I feel like, all willy-nilly without doing research or thinking about the consequences. If I ever experience a bite I'd honestly keep it to myself other than posting about it on this forum, you don't need to worry about me running to a news outlet to make a fuss and putting the hobby in danger. If it came down to needing medical attention, I had planned on just playing dumb rather than telling them anything about my collection. They don't need to know anything about it in order to treat me anyway.
> 
> I have taken all of this in stride and sincerely considered everyone's viewpoints, I know it's coming from a place of genuine concern for the well-being of a keeper and the animals, and the hobby, but really I think all of this is better reserved for someone who actually needs to hear it.


It's not so much about you being bitten, as stated, and regarding experienced keepers being likely to fall victim to a bite, yes, you're correct... BUT, they are less likely to get bitten than someone who has little to almost none experience. Regarding bite reports, it's not as much as the owner being bitten, it's about someone else besides you being bitten. Like you said, anything can go wrong, example: feeding attempt backfires, T manages to escape enclosure and take up refugee some place where it will most likely get in contact with someone besides you. If bite reports and owners being bitten were a big issue, the hobby wouldn't exist today. It's more about what the misinformed and general public thinks.   They think "big hairy deadly spider", they get irrational thoughts when they think of being envenomated by a tarantula, if someone besides you gets bit they'll usually make one hell of a issue about it. That's where the problem lies. Look at all the fuss that one airport made about a tarantula scurrying around on a plane, that thread Jose posted.

So my advice: be careful, don't get complacent, don't let your guard down, lots of patience and respect. Keep calm.  And always expect the unexpected. You seem very level headed about keeping that OBT, like I said, I like the way you think and approach the situation

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## soundsmith (Sep 25, 2015)

lalberts9310 said:


> It's not so much about you being bitten, as stated, and regarding experienced keepers being likely to fall victim to a bite, yes, you're correct... BUT, they are less likely to get bitten than someone who has little to almost none experience. Regarding bite reports, it's not as much as the owner being bitten, it's about someone else besides you being bitten. Like you said, anything can go wrong, example: feeding attempt backfires, T manages to escape enclosure and take up refugee some place where it will most likely get in contact with someone besides you. If bite reports and owners being bitten were a big issue, the hobby wouldn't exist today. It's more about what the misinformed and general public thinks.   They think "big hairy deadly spider". That's where the problem lies. Look at all the fuss that one airport made about a tarantula scurrying around on a plain, that thread Jose posted.


I totally get that. However, the chances of me being in any of those situations are slim to none (regarding other people being in danger from a T in my care). But that is just me and my situation, everyone is different. There is no reason to pull a specimen from it's enclosure to show it off to a friend or anything like that, certainly not something like an OBT. They can look at it just fine through the safety of the plastic. If that isn't enough of a wow-factor for them, then that's just too bad. Not worth the risk.

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## Chris LXXIX (Sep 25, 2015)

soundsmith said:


> Not worth the risk.


Amen, man. What's the only _Theraphosidae_ that, in almost 25 years around T's, i water (meaning, refill only the water dish) and offer prey without removing completely the top lid?
Yes. _Pterinochilus murinus_. And when i have to remove crickets boluses, i only do that when she's in her burrow under the cork bark, and, focused like a fu.... MacGyver, i remove those.

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## soundsmith (Sep 25, 2015)

Chris LXXIX said:


> Amen, man. What's the only _Theraphosidae_ that, in almost 25 years around T's, i water (meaning, refill only the water dish) and offer prey without removing completely the top lid?
> Yes. _Pterinochilus murinus_. And when i have to remove crickets boluses, i only do that when she's in her burrow under the cork bark, and, focused like a fu.... MacGyver, i remove those.


:laugh: That's actually exactly how I imagined myself feeding him, just enough of a crack to get a cricket in and get it closed without pause. I'm going to be picking up a baster or something so I can fill the water dishes, in all of the enclosures, by sticking the nozzle through one of the air holes in the lid without having to open it. Should significantly cut down on the risk for me and also disturbance to them.


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## Chris LXXIX (Sep 25, 2015)

soundsmith said:


> :laugh: That's actually exactly how I imagined myself feeding him, just enough of a crack to get a cricket in and get it closed without pause. I'm going to be picking up a baster or something so I can fill the water dishes, in all of the enclosures, by sticking the nozzle through one of the air holes in the lid without having to open it. Should significantly cut down on the risk for me and also disturbance to them.


My AF is housed in a medium "Dragon" (a Germany brand) fauna box. I use a syringe for refill the water dish. Definitely a _Theraphosidae_ that deserve respect.
OBT fame isn't an exageration but a well deserved one

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## soundsmith (Sep 26, 2015)

So a bit of an update, want to get some opinions... so far he has stayed pretty much in one corner of the enclosure by the lid the entire time, also hasn't laid down any silk other than a strand or two up in the corner. I'll look in on him and he'll be in one corner with this legs covering his eyes, then come back hours later and he hasn't moved. The first night he did dig up a tiny little bit of substrate, a ball no bigger than his abdomen, but hasn't touched anything since from what I can tell. Water dish is still full, and he did eat the first night when I transferred him, so I'm not concerned about him in that regard. The substrate is totally dry so I don't think that is the issue but it seems like he just does not want to come down from the ceiling corner. It's only day two with him but I guess what I am asking is at what point should I be concerned and, if anything, what can I do about it? My best guess is I didn't put a hide in the enclosure, going by what I've seen on this forum not many keepers provide a hide for this species, but I am starting to think perhaps it might be a welcome addition for him. Or not? I did make a couple of starter burrows before I put him in there, though.


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## BobGrill (Sep 26, 2015)

They need something to anchor their webbing to. A small slab of cork bark is all they need. Personally, I would've put this in the enclosure prior to getting the tarantula. It'll probably be several days before you see any significant webbing.

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk

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## KristinaMG (Sep 26, 2015)

I put a hollow round of cork bark in with mine when I first got her.  She instantly claimed it.  Webbed it up and didn't emerge for months.  I'm pretty sure there's a molt in there somewhere, but even though she has since moved out, I still haven't had the nerve to try to explore inside it.  When she eventually emerged from the hide she began webbing up the whole enclosure, with the hide as the focal point to which everything was anchored.  It is now completely webbed up with fabulous tunnels.  She now sits in her tunnels all the time and no longer goes in the hide.


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## soundsmith (Sep 26, 2015)

Well now I feel really bad. I'll grab a log hide after work in a couple of hours.


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## Tomoran (Sep 26, 2015)

You definitely should have started with a hide or a piece of cork in the enclosure. In the very least, if would have given it a place to hide or something to anchor web to. If you try to put one in now, you're putting yourself at risk for a bite or escape. You just said that you imagined yourself getting a baster to water it and only opening it a crack for feedings. Now you're considering opening the whole thing up to put in a hide? This is exactly why folks get nervous and upset when they see someone new to the hobby pick up one of these things. 

If you gave him a couple starter burrows, I would just hold out until he adapts one and starts burrowing or webbing. No use putting yourself at risk at this point. I had two OBTs that hung out in the corners of their enclosures for about a week after I got them. They eventually came down, burrowed, and webbed.

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## cold blood (Sep 26, 2015)

Smith, what you are experiencing is 110% normal acclimation behavior.   Do nothing whatsoever, just relax, in time it will come down and begin acting normally...its absolutely not anything you did wrong.  Patience is the name of the game here.

While a proper hide is a plus, it would not have altered this behavior.   And while anchor points are a good thing, for this species they aren't nearly as necessary as it would be for arboreal species...these things will eventually web everything regardless....they'll lay carpet on flat featureless ground.

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## Chris LXXIX (Sep 26, 2015)

soundsmith said:


> So a bit of an update, want to get some opinions... so far he has stayed pretty much in one corner of the enclosure by the lid the entire time, also hasn't laid down any silk other than a strand or two up in the corner. I'll look in on him and he'll be in one corner with this legs covering his eyes, then come back hours later and he hasn't moved. The first night he did dig up a tiny little bit of substrate, a ball no bigger than his abdomen, but hasn't touched anything since from what I can tell. Water dish is still full, and he did eat the first night when I transferred him, so I'm not concerned about him in that regard. The substrate is totally dry so I don't think that is the issue but it seems like he just does not want to come down from the ceiling corner. It's only day two with him but I guess what I am asking is at what point should I be concerned and, if anything, what can I do about it? My best guess is I didn't put a hide in the enclosure, going by what I've seen on this forum not many keepers provide a hide for this species, but I am starting to think perhaps it might be a welcome addition for him. Or not? I did make a couple of starter burrows before I put him in there, though.


Yes, i know. I disagree with that. I mean, to not offer an hide. A cork bark for hide is always a must in a _Theraphosidae _ enclosure for me.

There's people who house their _Pelinobius muticus_, _Hysterocrates gigas_, "Haplos" and _Chilobrachys _ sp. etc in a "substrate only" enclosure.

I love to give them a cork bark, and start a hole for them under, and they always accepted that. This, along with an "overkill" of substrate (especially for obligate burrowers T's) works.

They love to be opportunistic 

_Pterinochilus murinus_ would probably make his/her own hide, using the web, digging.. mine, however, accepted and burrowed under the cork bark just after a week from re-house.

Don't worry for that  They are amazing T's, probably the best able to adapt to different enviroments.

Important thing is "dry with a water dish", they hate moist substrate.

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## soundsmith (Sep 26, 2015)

Tomoran said:


> You just said that you imagined yourself getting a baster to water it and only opening it a crack for feedings. Now you're considering opening the whole thing up to put in a hide? This is exactly why folks get nervous and upset when they see someone new to the hobby pick up one of these things.


The baster idea was something I thought about when I had only an E. sp. Red, and it's purely to minimize the disturbance I would cause. It has nothing to do with the OBT other than making it even more apparent to be a good idea. The cracked lid comment was a joke, humor about how fast these guys are. You make it sound like I am just going to flip the lid off and cram a hide in there with no caution whatsoever. Do you think I'm insane? I asked first, knowing the possibility that someone with more experience could say yes, and understanding everything that would entail, before doing anything else. Your initial point is about not risking a bite, but then turn around and criticize me for having the forethought to find ways to minimize risk on something I will have to do frequently. Really??? Ridiculous. While I do appreciate your input that was actually helpful, that quoted portion of your post was totally unnecessary.

It's getting to the point where I'm hesitant to come here to ask questions due to the abundance of admonishment being shoveled at me based on assumptions and what-ifs from certain people. I have wasted so much time and energy explaining myself in this thread. I get it, some people get into this hobby for the wrong reasons and with bad intentions, doing totally irresponsible things without thinking of the consequences only to get bit or injure the animal as a result. That's not me. People, get off my back. Please. Save the worry, assumptions and criticism for someone who actually deserves it. 



> Smith, what you are experiencing is 110% normal acclimation behavior. Do nothing whatsoever, just relax, in time it will come down and begin acting normally...its absolutely not anything you did wrong. Patience is the name of the game here.
> 
> While a proper hide is a plus, it would not have altered this behavior. And while anchor points are a good thing, for this species they aren't nearly as necessary as it would be for arboreal species...these things will eventually web everything regardless....they'll lay carpet on flat featureless ground.


Thanks, I'll leave him be. I just assumed he would have come down by now, but now I know these guys take their time. He has advanced to a full-on pokie pose last time I looked, making himself as narrow as possible vertically in the corner of the walls. 



			
				Chris LXXIX said:
			
		

> Yes, i know. I disagree with that. I mean, to not offer an hide. A cork bark for hide is always a must in a Theraphosidae enclosure for me.
> 
> There's people who house their Pelinobius muticus, Hysterocrates gigas, "Haplos" and Chilobrachys sp. etc in a "substrate only" enclosure.
> 
> ...


Better to have and not need, than need and not have. Learned my lesson for sure, a hide will be provided no matter what in the future. I've heard about how well this species can adapt, but I think it would be best if the enclosure for any species has the most optimum environment they can thrive in and prefer.

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## Chris LXXIX (Sep 26, 2015)

soundsmith said:


> The baster idea was something I thought about when I had only an E. sp. Red, and it's purely to minimize the disturbance I would cause. It has nothing to do with the OBT other than making it even more apparent to be a good idea. The cracked lid comment was a joke, humor about how fast these guys are. You make it sound like I am just going to flip the lid off and cram a hide in there with no caution whatsoever. Do you think I'm insane? I asked first, knowing the possibility that someone with more experience could say yes, and understanding everything that would entail, before doing anything else. Your initial point is about not risking a bite, but then turn around and criticize me for having the forethought to find ways to minimize risk on something I will have to do frequently. Really??? Ridiculous. While I do appreciate your input that was actually helpful, that quoted portion of your post was totally unnecessary.
> 
> It's getting to the point where I'm hesitant to come here to ask questions due to the abundance of admonishment being shoveled at me based on assumptions and what-ifs from certain people. I have wasted so much time and energy explaining myself in this thread. I get it, some people get into this hobby for the wrong reasons and with bad intentions, doing totally irresponsible things without thinking of the consequences only to get bit or injure the animal as a result. That's not me. People, get off my back. Please. Save the worry, assumptions and criticism for someone who actually deserves it.
> 
> ...


True, man


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## KristinaMG (Sep 26, 2015)

Some replies here can come off as abrasive/lecturing.  But considering there are posters on here that have been doing this for longer than I've been alive (and I'm 30!) I try to take what wisdom I can from it rather than get defensive.  Good luck and don't be afraid to post.  It's just the internet.  You can hair flip and ignore whatever doesn't sit well with you.  Better to ask and get feedback, even if some of it is prickly.

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## soundsmith (Sep 26, 2015)

KristinaMG said:


> Some replies here can come off as abrasive/lecturing.  But considering there are posters on here that have been doing this for longer than I've been alive (and I'm 30!) I try to take what wisdom I can from it rather than get defensive.  Good luck and don't be afraid to post.  It's just the internet.  You can hair flip and ignore whatever doesn't sit well with you.  Better to ask and get feedback, even if some of it is prickly.


And I am more than happy to benefit from all of that experience, and give respect where it is due. I really am. Truly lucky we are to have a collection of people to turn to that have been around the block and seen so much in this hobby. I understand the point of view that someone new going "I got an OBT for my 4th tarantula" sounds really scary to those that have been around to see the worst outcomes of a similar scenario. Believe me, I do. I just don't appreciate what feels like a premature presumption of the kind of person I am, being lumped in with people that do things on a whim and care not for a shred of responsibility or consequences. Even after, I feel anyway, showing I'm not that kind of person, it was still harped on, repeatedly. I stayed cool for a good while, and it wasn't just Tomoran, I didn't mean to come off like it was entirely directed at him, his comment that I quoted was just the straw that broke the camel's back, as they say, and I felt I had to say something.


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## Tomoran (Sep 26, 2015)

soundsmith said:


> The baster idea was something I thought about when I had only an E. sp. Red, and it's purely to minimize the disturbance I would cause. It has nothing to do with the OBT other than making it even more apparent to be a good idea. The cracked lid comment was a joke, humor about how fast these guys are. You make it sound like I am just going to flip the lid off and cram a hide in there with no caution whatsoever. Do you think I'm insane? I asked first, knowing the possibility that someone with more experience could say yes, and understanding everything that would entail, before doing anything else. Your initial point is about not risking a bite, but then turn around and criticize me for having the forethought to find ways to minimize risk on something I will have to do frequently. Really??? Ridiculous. While I do appreciate your input that was actually helpful, that quoted portion of your post was totally unnecessary.
> 
> It's getting to the point where I'm hesitant to come here to ask questions due to the abundance of admonishment being shoveled at me based on assumptions and what-ifs from certain people. I have wasted so much time and energy explaining myself in this thread. I get it, some people get into this hobby for the wrong reasons and with bad intentions, doing totally irresponsible things without thinking of the consequences only to get bit or injure the animal as a result. That's not me. People, get off my back. Please. Save the worry, assumptions and criticism for someone who actually deserves it.
> 
> ...


So wayyyy back on September 1st when you just had a Euathlus sp. red... because you've had less than a month experience, right? It's not "presumption" that you're new to the hobby...you've said such. And you have to remember...we've heard all of this MANY times before.

Seriously, I wasn't trying to be a jerk with my last post, although I felt as though I had to point out EXACTLY the reason why you were getting some less than ecstatic responses from other board members. There are folks on this board who LOVE this hobby who live in constant fear that some newbie is going to get tarantulas banned due to a bite. Do I think you're crazy? No. I KNOW you are inexperienced and have already demonstrated that inexperience in your posts. Humor? Sorry...it didn't translate, especially after I've read so many keepers talking about how fearful they are of their OBTs. Did I criticize you about wanting to limit how you open the enclosure? No. I actually agree with that. I criticized the idea of you saying you didn't want to open the enclosure more than a crack, then saying you were going to open up the enclosure to add a hide. If you didn't understand that, sorry. 

The fact is, you have said throughout this thread that you though that by reading about OBTs and watching videos about them, you had all the information you needed to keep one. Experience be damned. Then, you quickly demonstrated that you were not as informed as you thought. You honestly can't expect to come to a forum where folks are constantly arguing that OBTs are NOT for beginners and not expect some degree of "admonishment" right? If you did the research you said you did, you would know this. Hell, there is another thread on here right now discussing how bad of an idea it is for beginners to own an OBT. http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?277910-An-OBT-as-a-good-beginner-s-species So, you bought an OBT after being in the hobby for less than a month, then came onto a public forum in which the majority of the members frown upon those new to the hobby owning this species, and basically bragged about it? I just don't get it.  

I truly hope that all goes well with your tarantula, and I sincerely mean that.

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## soundsmith (Sep 27, 2015)

Tomoran said:
			
		

> So wayyyy back on September 1st when you just had a Euathlus sp. red... because you've had less than a month experience, right? It's not "presumption" that you're new to the hobby...you've said such. And you have to remember...we've heard all of this MANY times before.
> 
> Seriously, I wasn't trying to be a jerk with my last post, although I felt as though I had to point out EXACTLY the reason why you were getting some less than ecstatic responses from other board members. There are folks on this board who LOVE this hobby who live in constant fear that some newbie is going to get tarantulas banned due to a bite. Do I think you're crazy? No. I KNOW you are inexperienced and have already demonstrated that inexperience in your posts. Humor? Sorry...it didn't translate, especially after I've read so many keepers talking about how fearful they are of their OBTs. Did I criticize you about wanting to limit how you open the enclosure? No. I actually agree with that. I criticized the idea of you saying you didn't want to open the enclosure more than a crack, then saying you were going to open up the enclosure to add a hide. If you didn't understand that, sorry.
> 
> ...


My OP was not to brag. What? The purpose of my original post was just to share what was going on with me, which I'm seeing now was an enormous mistake. Learned my lesson and won't be sharing anything from now on. 

As for the rest, wow have you done an impressive job of misunderstanding me pretty much entirely. I'm not going to waste any more time with this nonsense trying to explain myself to you. I'm just going to keep to myself from here on out.


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## BobGrill (Sep 27, 2015)

To be fair, he does make a lot of good points with this last post. As we've established time and time again, research is way different than first-hand experience. 

Also, I'd edit out the swearing in your post before the mods see it.



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## cold blood (Sep 27, 2015)

What's more defensive, the obt or the newbie that buys it?

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## Angel Minkov (Sep 27, 2015)

Oh my god... An OBT thread with at least 5 pages and debates on OWs and experience... How unexpected. :cute:

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## Chris LXXIX (Sep 27, 2015)

Angel Minkov said:


> Oh my god... An OBT thread with at least 5 pages and debates on OWs and experience... How unexpected. :cute:


Eh eh love your comebacks on those threads


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## Tomoran (Sep 27, 2015)

Well, I can cross "Participate in OBT debate thread" off my bucket list. :sarcasm:

This one earned me a nasty "Hey, go f### yourself" PM and an ignore. One and done with me ... lesson learned! ::


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## cold blood (Sep 27, 2015)

Tomoran said:


> Well, I can cross "Participate in OBT debate thread" off my bucket list. :sarcasm:
> 
> This one earned me a nasty "Hey, go f### yourself" PM and an ignore. One and done with me ... lesson learned! ::


Hilarous, must of been a group message...I got the same happy pm.  Not exceptionally mature.  EXACTLY the type of reason there is an ignore user feature here on AB:smile:

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## Tomoran (Sep 27, 2015)

cold blood said:


> Hilarous, must of been a group message...I got the same happy pm.  Not exceptionally mature.  EXACTLY the type of reason there is an ignore user feature here on AB:smile:


Ha! I wasn't alone? Now I don't feel quite so special. :sarcasm:

Agreed completely on both counts.


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## lalberts9310 (Sep 27, 2015)

WOW, and none of you came off rude at all, even I tried to handle the situation as nicely as I possibly can. I will never understand, people claiming they benefit and make use of good advice and that they "appreciate" it, even if it's not what they want to hear, and then go off sending rude PMs. I don't understand it. Really immature if you ask me...


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## SuzukiSwift (Sep 27, 2015)

There were so many posts here that I just kind of scanned through lol

In the end it comes down to how much knowledge and experience the person has on the subject, I think getting an OBT as a fourth tarantula seems a bit fast (pardon the pun) however looking at the OPs post you can see that they have done plenty of research, and the way they handled their new spider was very calm collected and effective. 

You could easily have somebody else who gets an OBT as their tenth spider and yet knows less and rehouses it in an uncalm manner, it's all a matter of perspective really.

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## Chris LXXIX (Sep 27, 2015)

SuzukiSwift said:


> There were so many posts here that I just kind of scanned through lol
> 
> In the end it comes down to how much knowledge and experience the person has on the subject, I think getting an OBT as a fourth tarantula seems a bit fast (pardon the pun) however looking at the OPs post you can see that they have done plenty of research, and the way they handled their new spider was very calm collected and effective.
> 
> You could easily have somebody else who gets an OBT as their tenth spider and yet knows less and rehouses it in an uncalm manner, it's all a matter of perspective really.


That's true as well.


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## cold blood (Sep 27, 2015)

Hey, I never gave the op any oop:, in fact I defended him (wrongly), and then offered sound advice without a touch of hostility or condescension....and I still got hate mail. :laugh:

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## Chris LXXIX (Sep 27, 2015)

cold blood said:


> Hey, I never gave the op any oop:, in fact I defended him (wrongly), and then offered sound advice without a touch of hostility or condescension....and I still got hate mail. :laugh:


Ah ah  Had a collection of hate mails when years ago i was trolling metal heads and people from Seattle YT channels posing as a Westboro Baptist Church man. No one spotted me as Italian (lol).
Great times u_u

"REPEEEEEENT!"


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## BobGrill (Sep 27, 2015)

SuzukiSwift said:


> There were so many posts here that I just kind of scanned through lol
> 
> In the end it comes down to how much knowledge and experience the person has on the subject, I think getting an OBT as a fourth tarantula seems a bit fast (pardon the pun) however looking at the OPs post you can see that they have done plenty of research, and the way they handled their new spider was very calm collected and effective.
> 
> You could easily have somebody else who gets an OBT as their tenth spider and yet knows less and rehouses it in an uncalm manner, it's all a matter of perspective really.


There's no doubt about that. However research is once again not the same as first hand experience. They're totally different. No amount of research can prepare you for rehousing an angry OBT. However gaining some experience with fast and defensive species who LACK POTENT VENOM definitely can. Augacephalus, Ceratogyrus, Ephebopus, any one of these would have been a great choice for many noobs. But no, they have to go for the bright orange tarantula. I just don't get it. I love P.murinus,  one of my favorite species. Augacephalus ezendami is such a beautiful Baboon species as well though. Ceratogyrus while not as colorful as either of these, is still a fun genus to keep, and great webbers just like an OBT. 

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## le-thomas (Sep 28, 2015)

BobGrill said:


> I just don't get it. I love P.murinus,  one of my favorite species. Augacephalus ezendami is such a beautiful Baboon species as well though. Ceratogyrus while not as colorful as either of these, is still a fun genus to keep, and great webbers just like an OBT.


It's simply because they're colorful, common, and cheap. The likelihood of running across Augacephalus, Ceratogyrus, or (maybe to a lesser extent) Ephebopus at a local dealer is pretty uncommon. In fact, I've only seen Ceratogyrus available once at a local reptile shop, and a few times at a reptile expo. I recently purchased an adult female Augacephalus sp. at a reptile expo, too, but had never seen one locally before that. Aside from those instances, you usually have to go online to locate those species. P. lugardi and P. chordatus are also probably easier to deal with, although I've yet to work with an adult chordatus.

OBTs are just so common, so vibrant, and so hyped. It's a recipe for disaster at this point. 

At least start with a sling or juvie, for goodness sake 

Best of luck to the new keeper. It isn't THAT hard, but there isn't much room for error, and even the smallest error will usually be punished heavily by this species.


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## cold blood (Sep 28, 2015)

le-thomas said:


> It's simply because they're colorful, common, and cheap. The likelihood of running across Augacephalus, Ceratogyrus, or (maybe to a lesser extent) Ephebopus at a local dealer is pretty uncommon. In fact, I've only seen Ceratogyrus available once at a local reptile shop, and a few times at a reptile expo. I recently purchased an adult female Augacephalus sp. at a reptile expo, too, but had never seen one locally before that. Aside from those instances, you usually have to go online to locate those species. P. lugardi and P. chordatus are also probably easier to deal with, although I've yet to work with an adult chordatus.
> 
> OBTs are just so common, so vibrant, and so hyped. It's a recipe for disaster at this point.
> 
> ...


OBT's aren't any more or less likely to be sold locally either IME (I've seen Ceratogryus locally here in WI, but never an OBT so far in a pet store)....but as for pricing, Ceratogryus are pretty cheap, often just as cheap as OBT's, and while not brightly colored, are still super cool and unique and a real treat to own ( as I see them out more).  I see them for sale for $10 or even less on a regular basis.    A. ezendami, while not as common, still aren't really expensive either....I got a sling last year for $20 and that's not a price that's hard to come by...heck AF ezendami are often as little as 70-80 bucks, not exactly a wallet buster and not really that far off OBT.   I'm a big fan of both and a big fan of utilizing them as great OW starters that anyone at any skill level would thoroughly enjoy without the concern/caution baggage that comes with OBT.

I'd think at an expo you shouldn't have a hard time locating either, especially the Ceratogryus.

OBT's are insanely over-hyped, I totally agree.



BobGrill said:


> There's no doubt about that. However research is once again not the same as first hand experience. They're totally different. No amount of research can prepare you for rehousing an angry OBT. However gaining some experience with fast and defensive species who LACK POTENT VENOM definitely can. Augacephalus, Ceratogyrus, Ephebopus, any one of these would have been a great choice for many noobs. But no, they have to go for the bright orange tarantula. I just don't get it.  Augacephalus ezendami is such a beautiful Baboon species as well though. Ceratogyrus while not as colorful as either of these, is still a fun genus to keep, and great webbers just like an OBT.
> 
> Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk


Agreed.  Ceratogryus are still really, really interesting looking, even if they're not brightly colored.  I would argue that ezendami are just as, or perhaps even more striking looking than an OBT, they are really neat ts...plus they built those cool turrets above their burrows, which makes them even cooler and more unique...really similar looking in many ways, but much easier to deal with and they don't grow like weeds like an OBT, which is something that causes problems to arise with OBT as they grow much faster than the persons experiences allow them to get comfortable with.   You start out with an easy to deal with sling, and in just a few months it turns into a little orange monster that's nothing like the sling they just started with.

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## lalberts9310 (Sep 28, 2015)

IMHO, I don't find OBTs to be very appealing, I have seen a lot more Ts that are way prettier, Augacephalus are absolutely gorgeous Ts, way WAY prettier than OBTs.


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## KristinaMG (Sep 28, 2015)

cold blood said:


> OBT's aren't any more or less likely to be sold locally either IME (I've seen Ceratogryus locally here in WI, but never an OBT so far in a pet store)....but as for pricing, Ceratogryus are pretty cheap, often just as cheap as OBT's, and while not brightly colored, are still super cool and unique and a real treat to own ( as I see them out more).  I see them for sale for $10 or even less on a regular basis.    A. ezendami, while not as common, still aren't really expensive either....I got a sling last year for $20 and that's not a price that's hard to come by...heck AF ezendami are often as little as 70-80 bucks, not exactly a wallet buster and not really that far off OBT.   I'm a big fan of both and a big fan of utilizing them as great OW starters that anyone at any skill level would thoroughly enjoy without the concern/caution baggage that comes with OBT.


Maybe it depends where you live?  I got mine at a LPS.  She was already an adult and the guy was selling her for $25.  I had already read up on them and decided they were above my skill set, but seeing how gorgeous she was in person and how she cost so much less than the T I had gone in intending to buy.. I ended up getting her.  The other LPS where I have purchased Ts also regularly has OBTs and other baboons.  Check out their list (just because it's awesome): http://www.jabberwockreptiles.com/tarantulas-inventory


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## BobGrill (Sep 28, 2015)

OBTs are gorgeous tarantulas, but they definitely do not belong in the hands of inexperienced keepers. Regardless of your personal taste, I do think Augacephalus and Ceratogyrus are better "starter" old worlds. I did recommend Ephebopus because I find them to be extremely fast and agile for a new world terrestrial. 

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## wndurham (Sep 28, 2015)

*Newbies to the hobby*

I am some what new to the hobby, a little over a year in.  Have acquired 7 soon to be 8 T's two of which are an OBT and an H.mac.  I have had them run on me, throw threat postures, attack and slap and be totally calm!  I think a newbie getting fast defensive spiders is fine just make sure you do your research and as said above be ready to deal with their behavior.  My OBT was the third spider I added to my collection and it did nothting more than expedite my learning curve, correct care and husbandry and love for the hobby!  My advice is do your homework, keep calm and collect on!!!!


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## Issehalsey (Sep 28, 2015)

Most LPS will and can order a special tarantula for you. Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean they can't get it. I've found 2 Ephebopus murinus and 1 Ephebopus uatuman at a LPS in the past 6 months. Also where I picked up my Haplopelma minax, Ceratogyrus darlingi sling, and MF Hapalopus sp large. They had an OBT sling also, but I passed. I have a MF who just laid a sack, and I never want an OBT again. Beautiful spider, but it's less interesting to me than all my G porteri.


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## BobGrill (Sep 28, 2015)

wndurham said:


> I am some what new to the hobby, a little over a year in.  Have acquired 7 soon to be 8 T's two of which are an OBT and an H.mac.  I have had them run on me, throw threat postures, attack and slap and be totally calm!  I think a newbie getting fast defensive spiders is fine just make sure you do your research and as said above be ready to deal with their behavior.  My OBT was the third spider I added to my collection and it did nothting more than expedite my learning curve, correct care and husbandry and love for the hobby!  My advice is do your homework, keep calm and collect on!!!!


Again doing research is waaaay different than first-hand experience. 

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## wndurham (Sep 28, 2015)

BobGrill said:


> Again doing research is waaaay different than first-hand experience.
> 
> Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk


Thanks Mr. Grill you have made that abundantly clear!


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## SpiritScale (Sep 28, 2015)

Here's all the positive vibes and good-lucks to the OP and the OBT...

That said....why is this even up for debate? No one would ever argue 'hey, experienced pilots mess up too and I read some books on how to fly a plane...so I'm going to go fly an aircraft'. There is, likewise, a reason for why there is a both a practical and theory part to a driving exam---and also why drivers with more experience (generally) are better drivers than even the most studious newbie. 

It is true that it is possible for even the most experienced keeper to make mistakes, have runners, escapees and to have those days where it seems even the slowest T moves at warp speed and you have the reaction time of a sloth. In no way, shape or form would that justify a newbie to have something with that sort of temperament, speed or venom potency behind it. There is reading about...and then there is doing. 
I can't even begin to grasp the reasoning of 'well, they're all wild animals and you're gonna lose so....lol YOLO and get yourself a pokie' 
Maybe it's because I've got other 'wild animal' experience under my belt with constrictors and parrots but I can tell you that no...the reality of them being wild and sometimes unpredictable does not mean that a newbie to either of those situations has the same likelihood of outcome, safety and possibilities as someone with more experience nor are they justified in being there. 
Respect your newbie status, respect the T's and also quite honestly respect the hobbyists around you because your goof ups could impact the rest of us both experienced and not, especially since while no tarantula bite has been fatal, some are indeed quite medically unpleasant and I would hate to see the impact of a bite from a more potent species on a small child. We all know how the press loves a good 'killer spider' story and how the people making the laws that impact us are not people who understand us nor have our experience/knowledge. 

The other thing is to know and respect your limits. I am not a newbie anymore, but in no way would I consider myself experienced either. I've been keeping tarantulas for most of the last two years. Still, I hit my proverbial 'you shall not pass' line with the psalmos. I simply do not have the neurological capabilities nor the reaction time to do it safely, despite finding a lot of the OW t's (and the NW psalmos) absolutely beautiful. I would LOVE a P. regalis. But the species I didn't feel comfortable keeping (which ended up being the Nhandus and the Psalmos) were rehomed to other hobbyists and I will not be keeping them again. I can enjoy species I cannot manage from afar and be responsible about it. Unless someone comes up with a method or contraption that will overcome my issues and allow me to keep safely the species I could not manage...I simply must accept my limitations. 

*shrug* Not every newbie will be a complete disaster with OW tarantulas it is true, but is it a commendable practice? Hell no. Should it receive the backlash it does in spite of the occasional success? Hell yes. It is not a wise move, regardless of whether it was a 'LOL I wanna badass spider' decision or a 'I'm a newbie but I've researched and feel ready, I love this species' decision.

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## cold blood (Sep 28, 2015)

I agree with Bob...research doesn't mean squat without experience.    1 year experience is 100 times more valuable than 10 years of dedicated research....research without experience simply leads to a false sense of confidence.

You buy a brand new car, you have 2 good friends, one 30 years old, who has never actually driven, but has been in cars, reading and doing research for 16 years and only recently received a license....the other is 26, but  has been behind the wheel daily for 10 years...who gets the test drive?

2 surgeons the same age, one has spent the last 18 years in college, doing all kinds of research...the other did his 8 and has spent the last decade actually performing heart surgery and honing his skills....you require a heart procedure, which would you rather have with your heart in his hands?

All things considered, in both cases as well as with t's, research will allow you to accomplish all tasks, should everything go exactly as planned....but should a problem arise, the difference between the two becomes huge....and just like in driving and performing surgery...and keeping t's....problems will arise and things won't always go smoothly....things don't always go smoothly, that's a fact.....experience is what allows one to easily deal with things when they begin to go wrong.

I'd trust a person with a year of experience and very little research helping me with my t's, well before I would trust someone with no experience, but a decade of hard research.   Research is virtually useless without experience to back it up....for all those that think research is enough, you are fooling yourselves into a false sense of security.

Yes, research is important, but experience is vastly more so, and its not really even that close.  Experienced people are simply put, far less inclined to make mistakes and more easily able to deal with them in the increasingly less likely event that they arise.

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## Sam_Peanuts (Sep 28, 2015)

It's up for debate because not everyone is the same.

There are people who will have a lot of trouble dealing with them(like you, SpiritScale, from what you're saying) and other who won't.

Looking back now in all my years in the hobby, the experience I gained helps me today, but it's only a minor part of what does.
The fact that I'm a pretty calm person and that I take the time to think before I act or that I can act without hesitation when the situation doesn't allow the time to think is the major part of what's helping me.
Research also helped me with a few things I was missing, but it was a bit late since it was really hard to find information when I started(especially since my english wasn't nearly as good as today).

Personally, I'd put the ratios at around 60/30/10 for your abilities/research/experience.

Experience is mostly what helps to predict the possible reaction the tarantula will have to some action on your part. If you minimize the possibilities of them being able to come in contact with you, then a newbie will be able to deal fairly easily with an OW if he has the right qualities.

I learned on the first day I got one to admire my OBTs with the lid closed when I was a newbie, but now that I have the experience, I don't have a problem leaving their lids open since I know when it's time to put it back on and if I'm too late, I can act in time and know how to make them return in their enclosure easily.
Experience made me able to deal with them much more easily, but even without it, I had no problem dealing with one, I was simply acting differently with them at the time.


I still wouldn't recommend one that early since you're not familiar with how tarantulas in general react with that little experience, I would've waited a few more months at least but if he's careful, he should be able to deal easily with it from reading his posts.

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## BobGrill (Sep 28, 2015)

wndurham said:


> Thanks Mr. Grill you have made that abundantly clear!


You're welcome 

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## le-thomas (Sep 28, 2015)

Sam_Peanuts said:


> Personally, I'd put the ratios at around 60/30/10 for your abilities/research/experience.


I would assign a greater value to experience in that ratio. While abilities are important, learning hands-on helps to hone those abilities and allows you to use them to your benefit. The first time I dealt with an OW specimen (a juvie _H. maculata_ – good choice, huh?), because I knew what to expect and what to do should things go wrong, I did well and posed no risk to myself, but now, I can deal with very fast and ornery spiders much more efficiently, thanks in large part to what I've experienced. 

It's definitely up to the individual.

I digress...

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## cold blood (Sep 28, 2015)

I agree Thomas, experience would most certainly be the biggest part of that pie....and 60 isn't high enough IMO and IME.

I'd even go as far as to say that without experience, the level of your abilities are simply a guess or an assumption without a base.

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## Khagra (Sep 28, 2015)

I think we can all agree the OBT may not have been the best choice for this user. But rather than be useful, y'all had to go and make such a huge deal about it that the poor dude doesn't even wanna talk on arachnoboards anymore. You essentially shamed him so much, that he probably won't even ask for help in the future if he needs it, and that's pretty sad.

Reactions: Like 2


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## lalberts9310 (Sep 28, 2015)

Khagra said:


> I think we can all agree the OBT may not have been the best choice for this user. But rather than be useful, y'all had to go and make such a huge deal about it that the poor dude doesn't even wanna talk on arachnoboards anymore. You essentially shamed him so much, that he probably won't even ask for help in the future if he needs it, and that's pretty sad.


 UH, please reread the thread, as it seems that you scanned through the whole thing without actually taking in what everyone has been saying. No one shamed the OP in any way, he loosed his temper for no apparent reason. All of the posters handled the situation nicely without shaming or bashing, even some defended the OP. He lost his temper towards Tomoran unnecessarily and that's when it all started going haywire.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Khagra (Sep 28, 2015)

You're right. Everyone wants to post about their new pet and be told over and over by multiple people that they made a bad choice. Shaming.


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## lalberts9310 (Sep 28, 2015)

Khagra said:


> You're right. Everyone wants to post about their new pet and be told over and over by multiple people that they made a bad choice. Shaming.


So I suppose everyone should have sugarcoated and told him that he made an excellent choice? When indeed he did not? Where is it a great choice for a newb to get a OW (an OBT for that fact) in less than a month in the hobby? Is it fair towards op, the spider and those around him, towards the hobby and fellow hobbyists not to warn him about the possible risk and consequences, and to why it's not a great choice? It wasn't shaming at all, it was being honest, and there was no bashing involved whatsoever.  Yes, he made the wrong choice, and yes he has been told that multiple times, but also wasn't he been told multiple times that he handled the rehousing situation correctly? You are greatly missing a big point here, if every newb that got a OBT (or any OW for that fact) been told that they made excellent choices, what picture would it send to others wanting to start out into the hobby? Every other newby getting an OBT thinking it's a awesome choice putting the T, other people, the hobby and fellow hobbyists at great risk without so much as even thinking. What purpose would AB have if false information where posted and spread around? Just because a newb couldn't bare differing opinions (even if it was given in a very mature and professional manner). This is the internet, and if you are doing something wrong, especially around people who cares about the hobby to a great length, you are going to be called out for it. The difference here is members gave they differing opinions in the nicest way possible, and sound advice and yet OP lost his mind.


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## Sam_Peanuts (Sep 28, 2015)

cold blood said:


> I agree Thomas, experience would most certainly be the biggest part of that pie....and 60 isn't high enough IMO and IME.
> 
> I'd even go as far as to say that without experience, the level of your abilities are simply a guess or an assumption without a base.


He only said it should be a bigger piece, not necessarily the biggest.

The ratio will differ from person to person since we don't have the same abilities. Someone who can't deal very well with them at first can eventually compensate with experience so for them, that would take a bigger piece of the pie.

I do agree with your second sentence though, but once you've dealt with a situation once, you'll learn if your abilities are as you though or not. It's not the experience that will help you deal with them in that moment, it's your abilities since it's the first time you handle it so you haven't acquired any experience yet.
Without that first experience though, you can only make an educated guess on how you'll react.



lalberts9310 said:


> So I suppose everyone should have sugarcoated and told him that he made an excellent choice? When indeed he did not? Where is it a great choice for a newb to get a OW (an OBT for that fact) in just being over a month in the hobby?


The world isn't black and white, it's mostly grey. There's such a thing as a choice between excellent and terrible. OP wasn't nearly as bad as many we see making such a thread.


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## wndurham (Sep 28, 2015)

*Love the passion*

After reading all of the posts in this thread and posting some myself I have to love all the responses good or bad!  Funny or Agravated!  Bottom line is that we all post here because we love the hobby and all are arachno freaks!!!  Good luck to the OP and his/her spiders!  There is more than one way to skin a cat or in this case a spider!  I love the passion of the group collective that is Arachnoboards!!!!!!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Chris LXXIX (Sep 28, 2015)

Khagra said:


> I think we can all agree the OBT may not have been the best choice for this user. But rather than be useful, y'all had to go and make such a huge deal about it that the poor dude doesn't even wanna talk on arachnoboards anymore. You essentially shamed him so much, that he probably won't even ask for help in the future if he needs it, and that's pretty sad.


I have almost 25 years of T's experience, and i offered him my friendship, and my will for discuss, even via PM, about further advice if needed, etc (would not say care because, honestly, IMO _Pterinochilus murinus_ are a very easy to care _Theraphosidae_). 

He didn't accepted that so far but it's ok. 

Someone who moves his/her first steps into T's shouldn't been pissed off however only because others state a true dat.. like saying, _Pterinochilus murinus _ isn't a beginner one.

Because that's only the truth.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Angel Minkov (Sep 29, 2015)

Omg! There were insults as well?! I'm shocked!:giggle:


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## soundsmith (Sep 29, 2015)

I want to apologize to *cold blood* and *Tomoran* for the messages I sent them. *cold blood*, it was because of your comment about "who is more defensive..." and *Tomoran*, I was just mad about your last reply before I sent the messages. Regardless, the messages I sent were completely uncalled for. It may be hard to believe at this point, but that's honestly not like me to let my frustrations get the better of me and stoop to that level. I'll understand if either of you don't want to accept my apology, I don't expect you to. Both of you, and everyone else in this thread who echoed the same concerns, were only looking out for the well-being of the tarantula, the hobby and, I'd like to think, myself. I can't take it back but I sincerely wish I had cooled off first and not sent them at all, neither of you deserved it.  

I just felt like this thread turned into incessant berating and negativity towards me. That's what I was frustrated about. Not that someone pointed out an OBT isn't considered fit for a beginner, but how it seemed never-ending and from so many people. If I have to be an example for other newbies to see that the community does not condone it and why, then so be it. At some point I think I was just hoping to be given the chance to prove to be the exception and did not expect the amount of (justifiable) backlash I received. 

As I said before, I understand where everyone is coming from. It's scary for the experienced keepers to hear someone new to the hobby get an OBT so soon. You don't know me or the kind of person I am or if I could handle it, all you can go on is my (lack of) experience and what I tell you, which understandably is not very reassuring on both accounts. All I can say is I felt competent and confident that I could handle it after getting an _idea_ of what they are like from the research I did, and that I felt I was as prepared as anyone could be without having first-hand experience before deciding to actually get one. To some, that isn't good enough, but it's going to have to be in this case. I've already got the tarantula and he isn't going back to the shop. What's done is done. I promise you he is in good hands, that's the best I can do for you.

Reactions: Like 7


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