# What species is tis scorpion?



## ThiagoMassa (May 29, 2003)

Well i tried to attach a file but i don´t think it worked. I´ll try again...


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## Reitz (May 29, 2003)

I'm fairly confident that the scorpion pictured is a sub-adult (possibly adult) Tityus serrulatus. The picture isn't very revealing, but given your location and the patterning on the scorp, along with the stripes and thickness of its metasoma, that would be my best guess. Assuming, of couse, that you collected the scorpion locally.

Peace,
Chris


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## Neo (May 29, 2003)

Some sort of fat tail scorpion. African Fat Tail? I don't know taking a guess, not a professional at this. AFT don't totally look like that.

:?


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## ORION_DV8 (May 30, 2003)

Can you get a picture of the telson/sting it might be easier to distinguish.
ORION


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## ThiagoMassa (May 30, 2003)

*pictures*

well i´ll try to put another pictures here, they are not very good cos´ i used a webcam...


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## ThiagoMassa (May 30, 2003)

*picture*

another


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## ThiagoMassa (May 30, 2003)

*picture*

There was this guy at the college who told me that it was a Tityus serrulatus, i´ve collected it in my house, and it is one and a half inches long (kind of...).


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## ThiagoMassa (May 30, 2003)

*pic*

actually I´ve collected it in the wall of my bedroom, behind the door. Scorpions usually climb walls? (The walls of my bedroom have that wallpapers) And, how dangerous is it, since it have come into my room and climbed my walls?


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## ThiagoMassa (May 30, 2003)

*picture*

Oh, does anybody knows what could be the best preys for it?
Considering it is a little scorp (4 to 5 centimeters, 1 to 2 inches)...
I´ve given it a cricket, wich was completely swallowed...  well, i didn´t see any residue of it but the head, and i´ve seen it eating the leg o the cricket... i´m pretty sure of that... Is that possible too?


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## chau0046 (May 30, 2003)

My friend ...Living in Brazil you have one of the unique opportunities to enjoy the scorp in its native suroundings. It might sound dull...But this scorp is highly prized , most scorpion collecters have a great deal of difficulty to purchase these in North america. Since the borders closed on brazil for exporting..There almost never seen in our pet trade.

They also reproduce by themselves./ No M/F bs.

Pretty crazy ....

Enjoy!!!!
Mat


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## chau0046 (May 30, 2003)

I think its a 3 on a scale of five.

Not toooo too bad, but you `ll feel it!

Mat


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## ThiagoMassa (May 30, 2003)

*$$$$$*

All right! hehehe
I think i´ve found a gold mine in my own house!
I´ll start to export some of them ilegally!!!
hehehehehehe
Well, about the advantages in Brazil, there aren´t as many as you told, the natural ambient of this scorp is the city drain, and about having them, you can be arrested if you get caught. But... I think I´ll take the risk cos´ it´s something i really like!


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## Reitz (May 30, 2003)

As I said in my first post, it's a Tityus serrulatus. 

I'm guessing its got one more molt to go, though it could be done.

In terms of the cricket--yes, it ate the whole thing. They pre-digest food, that is to say that they break down food before they swallow it. By the time the cricket was "swallowed" it was liquid, and took up much less space than an intact cricket.

Crickets are probably the best food for your scorp. You should be able to find small ones, which will be less likely to injure your pet.

As for the venom, I'm not entirely sure. Mat said that they're about a 3, I'd go with between 3 and 4. I'm fairly sure that their venom is powerful, but that they can't inject a significant amount. The result of the sting would probably be lots of pain and some systemic effects--it would most likely feel like you were hit in the groin for about 4 days. 

In terms of climbing walls, no must scorps can't, but most Tityus sp. can. Esp ones that small. 

Hope that helps,
Chris


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## Reitz (May 30, 2003)

Did you say you can get arrested for having a scorpion in your possesion in Brazil?


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## chau0046 (May 30, 2003)

Yeah! Sorry Chris you were definately right on youre ID!

Good job!

Mat

Maybe some day i will receive these ...heheh


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## ThiagoMassa (May 30, 2003)

*Thanx*

(Oh, sorry about my english, i´m not very good on that, and i´ll try to be as "understandable" as I can... 
Well, one day I get a scorp, then I start keeping it, search for information, find this site, ask some questions and I receive a Library back! hehehehe. Chis, Mat, thanks very much, you are great and helped me a lot. I´m even thinking in increase my "collection" of scorps! hehehe 
About being arrested... It´s illegal to keep ANY kind of animal of the brazilian fauna, I think they don´t care too tooo much about scorps, you can get a penalty (very expensive), but many kinds of mammals, reptiles and birds lead you directly to the jail...
Thanks again...


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## Frank (May 30, 2003)

I wish I could live where I could be surrounded by scorpions, instead of mosquitos...



Frank


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## XOskeletonRED (May 31, 2003)

I wouldn't exactly call it a "gold mine". Not very many people would be willing to risk going to jail for importation of a scorpion.  Tityus serrulatus is indeed the ID, as Chris had stated. Do you have any pictures of other scorpions of the area? If so, please send some to my e-mail (reminder that you already have the address). ...hugs.

adios,
edw.


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## ThiagoMassa (May 31, 2003)

*Sorry*

Sorry Edw, I only have this pictures, I´ll try to find a site or another sources for the pictures... 

Hugs
Massa


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## XOskeletonRED (May 31, 2003)

I have photos of T. bahiensis, but I only have them of a single subspecies and would prefer to know the color variants of each subspecies. Don't worry about researching for photos of them because I've been doing that for a few years and have only come up with a single color variant, take T. serrulatus, which I have pics of two different subspecies. I don't believe I have any photos of T. costatus at all, but I'll have to search through my photo files to know for sure. It would be nice if you have any available means of finding pics of that species.


thanks & adios,
edw.


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## ThiagoMassa (Jun 1, 2003)

*mail refused*

Edw, your email has been refused in my computer, I really don´t know why! I have one pic of T. bahiensis, if you don´t mind i´ll put it here.

< Picture has been removed due to lack of permission - MrD. >


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## chau0046 (Jun 1, 2003)

Is it just me ....or does that have a good resemblense to a C. Gracilis. The subacular spine seems to be in most(if not all) Tityus spp., but not in all Centruroides spp. I wonder if it got its name from being in the U. S. and therefore classified as though. I think they might be very close in spp. types.

Mat


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## skinheaddave (Jun 2, 2003)

Mat,

I don't think a taxonomic error of that magnitude would be missed this long.  While we tend to use some very crude methods of identification around here (proportions, colouration, major structures), taxonomists use minute detail to make these destinctions.  Now some are even using genetic data to put together taxonomic relationships, though this hasn't been done that extensively with arachnids.

Cheers,
Dave


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## phoenixxavierre (Jun 3, 2003)

> _Originally posted by chau0046 _
> *Is it just me ....or does that have a good resemblense to a C. Gracilis. The subacular spine seems to be in most(if not all) Tityus spp., but not in all Centruroides spp. I wonder if it got its name from being in the U. S. and therefore classified as though. I think they might be very close in spp. types.
> 
> Mat *


Hi Mat,

Yes, it does look alot like C. gracilis.

Cheers,

Paul


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## ThiagoMassa (Jun 3, 2003)

http://www.ub.ntnu.no/scorpion-files/gallery.htm

took the picture from this site... 

Think it´s a quite serious website...


 
Massa


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## ThiagoMassa (Jun 3, 2003)

*Here is a C. gracilis...*

C. gracilis (from the same website)

< Picture has been removed due to lack of permission - MrD. >


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## Reitz (Jun 3, 2003)

Just for the record, these pictures are copyrighted. I don't know what legally has to be done to post these, though it would be safer to just post a link. I'm not trying to give anyone a hard time, I just don't want arachnopets to get in trouble. I'm fairly sure that Jan does not have the rights to those images, so you'd have to ask the people who took them.

Chris


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## chau0046 (Jun 3, 2003)

well thats the thing , all the pics of C . gracilis i`ve seen have much darker legs then that one in the scorp files, but others on that site resemble mine and that of this Tityus spp. . I`m no expert but i know there can be color morphs ....so whats the real differences ??

Mat


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## phoenixxavierre (Jun 3, 2003)

> _Originally posted by chau0046 _
> *well thats the thing , all the pics of C . gracilis i`ve seen have much darker legs then that one in the scorp files, but others on that site resemble mine and that of this Tityus spp. . I`m no expert but i know there can be color morphs ....so whats the real differences ??
> 
> Mat *


Hi Matt,

According to Scorpions of Medical Importance by Hugh L. Keegan, Tityus is similar in size, habits, and general appearance to Centruroides. However, there are no "supernumerary granules flanking the oblique, median rows of granules on the movable finger of the pedipalp."  Tityus also has no less than 14 oblique rows of median granules, while Centruroides has no more than 9. 

It also says that of Tityus, those that are dangerously venomous are Tityus serrulatus, Tityus bahiensis, Tityus trinitatis, and Tityus trivittatus. Also, subspecies T. t. charreyroni. He also mentions Tityus cambridgei. 

Hope this helps you.

Best wishes,

Paul


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## ThiagoMassa (Jun 3, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Reitz _
> *Just for the record, these pictures are copyrighted. I don't know what legally has to be done to post these, though it would be safer to just post a link. I'm not trying to give anyone a hard time, I just don't want arachnopets to get in trouble. I'm fairly sure that Jan does not have the rights to those images, so you'd have to ask the people who took them.
> 
> Chris *



Sorry Chis,

I really didnt know this, i´m not used to the terms of "Copyrighting"...
And I didnt pay attention on the detail...
Actually, I don´t know about this web rules...
sorry again...
:8o


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## Reitz (Jun 3, 2003)

I wasn't trying to be mean. Honestly, don't worry about it. I just don't want arachnopets to get in trouble. It's not your fault, I just want to make sure that the moderators know what to do with them. 


Chris


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## MrDeranged (Jun 3, 2003)

I'm actually waiting on a reply from the webmaster of TSF to see what he would like to be done.

Thanks,

Scott


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## MrDeranged (Jun 4, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ThiagoMassa _
> *Sorry Chis,
> 
> I really didnt know this, i´m not used to the terms of "Copyrighting"...
> ...


Hey Thiago,

Basically "Copyrighting" has to do with ownership of a photo.  It's bad netiquette as well as illegal to save a photo that you don't hold the copyright to and then post it somewhere else.  As you can see, the pictures have been removed.  Sorry about that.

Scott


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## ThiagoMassa (Jun 4, 2003)

*All right!*

Thanks Scott, helped a lot! I´ll try to be more carefull.    
Well, at least we have the link!  


Back to my T. serrulatus, what should I put in its tank?
By now, his tank is like this...
Any suggestions?


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## phoenixxavierre (Jun 4, 2003)

*Tityus serrulatus*

Hi,

Here's some info for you on Tityus serrulatus, described by Lutz and Mello-Campos in 1922, from Scorpions of Medical Importance by Hugh L. Keegan:

"This species, generally considered to be the most dangerous scorpion in Brazil, occurs only in that country, where, according to Bucherl (1971), it is found in the states of Sergipe, Bahia, Minas Gerais, Espirito Santo, Rio de Janeiro, Goias and Sao Paulo. 

In life, the cephalothorax and all but the last segment of the preabdomen vary in color from yellow to blackish brown with some dark marking on each segment. The last abdominal segment, the postabdomen and the appendages are pale yellow, except that the fingers of the pedipalp and the telson are reddish brown. The aculeus may be almost black. An important taxonomic characteristic is that the granules of the dorsal median keel on the third and fourth segments of the postabdomen are distinctly enlarged to form a serrated appearance when viewed laterally. 

The medical importance of T. serrulatus stems from the toxicity of its venom plus its habits, which are similar to those of Centruroides sculputuratus in the United States. As a "domestic" species it is a frequent cause of scorpion sting. In some parts of Brazil it is exceedingly common. Bucherl (1971) wrote that during the period of 1949 to 1963 about 138,000 specimens of T. serrulatus were captured in four cities of Brazil and sent to the Instituto Butantan for venom research and antivenin production. In the areas where the species is found, various insecticides have been tested in control programs. Souza et al (1954) found lindane to be effective in scorpion control when it was used as a residual spray in and around buildings. Bucherl (1971) also found lindane to be effective but noted that contact with this insecticde excited the scorpions, making them more active and increasing the possibility of envenomation. Because of this, in later years, a 5% DDT emulsion was used in control programs. 

Tityus serrulatus is unique in that, apparently, reproduction is entirely by parthinogenesis. A male of the species has never been found. Parthenogenetic birth in the laboratory was first described by Matthiesen (1962) and again by San Martin and Gambardella (1966). Bucherl (1971) found only females among over 60,000 specimens received at his laboratory. In addition, he found only ovaries in about 8,000 dissected specimens. 

Adults of this species may attain a length of about 70 mm. Specimens supplied by Dr. Wolfgang Bucherl, were from the colony maintained at the venomous animals laboratory at the Instituto Butantan, Sao Paulo, Brazil."


Cheers,

Paul

(Not what you were asking, but I figured this information would be useful to you in identification/knowledge and for others on the forum)


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## ThiagoMassa (Jun 4, 2003)

Uow!

Thats a lot of info there, thanks a lot Paul!

   I live in the state of Distrito Federal, but its right in the midlle of the state of Goias. There was a time in my city when this scorp was a plague and that control mentioned on the text was made here. In a part of the city named Cruzeiro we had the most part of the scorps. Many people moved from their houses (apartments) couse of that. (Just adding local info!) 

Now I know my scorp is the most dangerous here! hehehe :} 


->:?  I´m a beginner in scorps, but i´m really appreciating having one, how can I collect them wild, I mean, i don´t have that UV light and don´t now how expensive it is. What places should I look? How to collect them, do I have to use pincers (clips)?

->Where I find some caresheets of the T. serrulatus? And about the tank, I was think in put some substrate, wich sand (white, yellow, brown, red, black) is the best? Do I have to bake it or boil?

Thanks
Massa


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## ThiagoMassa (Jun 4, 2003)

forgot...

about the water, i put a thin layer on a "cover, case"(don´t know the word, but you can see on the picture), it´s something about 5mm deep, and i´m sure that if the scorp fall into this it can easily get out. May I keep it there or replace it with cotton?


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## ThiagoMassa (Jun 4, 2003)

Today my scorp ate a big fat cricket, almost its size! And I am very proud! Hhahahahahahahhahahahahhaha
In the pic we just see 2/3 of the cricket...
The criket was eaten upside down, that´s not a picture defect.
sorry about this but I´m really not used to see that kind of thing and I became excited! hahahahha


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## ThiagoMassa (Jun 4, 2003)

:?
Is there any problem about to put pictures of mine on the page, and, is there any problem about to put so many pictures as I did?
If there is a number, how many pics may I put in the page? It´s just because I don´t write in english very well, and I don´t know the names of many things, so it´s more practical for me showing the pictures of my doubts, like the species, the tank...

I want to show a better pic of the tank to show the proportion of the scorp and the space it has, does it needs more space?


Thanks!
Massa


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## Reitz (Jun 4, 2003)

You can post as many of your picutures as you'd like.

As for collecting scorpions, be very careful. The ones in your area are very dangerous. You should probably get some tongs or 'pincers' to collect them, because you don't want to risk getting stung. In terms of where to look, the black light may no be necessary. You could probably just look around building overhangs, behind bark on trees and under rocks. They're nocturnal, but since the population is so high in your area you've still got a good chance of finding some during the day. 

Your water source looks good. You don't want cotton in there because it is prone to bacteria.

Substrate should probably be potting soil, though others would know better than I. I *think* they need temps and humidity around 80, though get a second opinion on this. 

The tank size looks fine.

Good luck,
Chris


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## ThiagoMassa (Jun 4, 2003)

Thanks Chris!
helped a lot!!

about humidity and temperature I don´t have any way of measure or degree it, but in the case of humidity the "walls" of the tank are sweating and I don´t know if it is a good of a bad signal of humidity, i mean, i don´t know if its too high...
In the case of the temperature, i think that if they live wild on my city, the ambient temperature would be enough, am I wrong? If so, please correct me...

Thanks again!


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## ThiagoMassa (Jun 4, 2003)

oh, about keeping that tree bark in the tank, which is covered with plants (don´t know the name in english, but in portuguese are "briófitas", think it migh be "briofit"). Is it bad in any aspect for the scorp?

thanks again
Massa


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## ThiagoMassa (Jun 4, 2003)

I used that tree bark as an humidity indicator too, as I know that this kind of plant are green just if they have lots of humidity...


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## Reitz (Jun 4, 2003)

The ambient temp is fine, unless your house is climate controlled. 

It actually sounds like there's a little too much humidity. But in a few days it should be fine. Just don't add mist the tank at all.

As for the tree thing, just watch for mites. Moss is generally a good thing, it means that the climate is right. But you always have to worry about infestations with foreign matter. Someone else can probably give you more info. I know Ed has recommended using rotten tree limbs, but I believe he bakes them (Ed, if that wasn't you please correct me). Others use moss or ferns, but they usually grow them from seed/spores. 

Chris


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## phoenixxavierre (Jun 5, 2003)

Hi again,

No problem on the info. I figured you could use it.

Being that they're native where you live, as someone else here mentioned, it is an incredible opportunity to study this species in the wild! 

Basically all you need to do is mimic the environment you find them in. More than likely you'll find them under stones, logs, etc. 

It would be very easy for you to take care of them being you have everything you need right there. They thrive where you live, so don't worry too much about the conditions being correct. As long as you offer them food and water, and keep them in conditions similar to what it is outside, they should do great. Just keep them in the same conditions as it is outside. If it rains, add some water. If you found this one on a concrete wall, add a piece of concrete into the tank. If you find some under stones, put stones in the tank. You're probably okay using the dirt you have there, as they live on it naturally. The only possible problem I see with that is parasites, but I've never heard of any scorps coming from South America that had parasites. I've seen personally African scorpions with parasites, but from what I understand it's rare. So just use what you have in nature there and you should be just fine. If you find them basking in the sun, place the tank by a window where light can pass through the tank, but never place the tank where it would receive extended periods of light, or it might overheat the scorp. Keep it simple and they should do great!

If you don't have tools to collect with, just be careful. Use a stick to direct them into a cup or container with a good lid, and keep your eyes on things around you, so as to avoid being stung, etc. Just be very careful! 

I'd love to hear more about this species behavior, etc. in the wild, so feel free to post it here or feel free to email me privately as well. This type of info would be super! Feel free to email me at phoenixxavierre@yahoo.com or paul@exopets.com. 

The best prey items are probably whatever they eat in the wild there, another thing I'd be very interested in finding out about! I'm very curious what other types of "bugs" you have there. Again, I'm not sure how much of a bug collector you are, but being a native there, I'm fairly sure you must be pretty aware of what nasties there are there, and what to avoid. They'll eat pretty much anything smaller than they are. If they don't eat prey within a day or so, remove it. They may be partial to a particular type of food, and be putting various things in there you'll find out what they like to eat! 

This is all information that we in the US would love to find out about! I know if I find it interesting, there are definitely others that do as well!

Best wishes and happy collecting!  

Paul


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## ThiagoMassa (Jun 5, 2003)

Thanks a lot Paul!

The simple way, the best way!

You said if i found one in a concrete wall, to put a piece of concret in the tank... So, what about if I found it climbing the walls of my bedroom? Should I brake my bedroom´s wall and put it on the tank??? hahahahahahaha LOL! 
The only places i´ve seen it before was inside the houses, in the floor, now on the walls, but never looked after on other places, becouse I just started keeping a bug and being interested of "how to" after taking this one!
But I have an idea of what is the ambient it lives...
Thanks again Paul, and be sure that I´ll try to keep people updated about my scorp.
And Chris, thanks again, you are very kind!

Thiago


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## phoenixxavierre (Jun 5, 2003)

Massa, 

Is that you picking your nose with your tongue?? lol!

The only other person i've seen do that is my brother! hehe!

Cheers,

Paul


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## ThiagoMassa (Jun 5, 2003)

*hehehehe*

Yeah, that freak is me! hahahahaha

Today I tried to find some scorps but all that I found were some spiders I don´t know the ID and a mice who smiled to me and said " go back home!"


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## phoenixxavierre (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: hehehehe*



> _Originally posted by ThiagoMassa _
> *Yeah, that freak is me! hahahahaha
> 
> Today I tried to find some scorps but all that I found were some spiders I don´t know the ID and a mice who smiled to me and said " go back home!"  *


lol! well, if you're a freak I'm sure you'll fit in well with everyone on these forums! hehe!   (did I say that??) (running and ducking)  

so were they little spiders? big spiders? colorful? dull? fat? skinny? dying to know!!

Hmmm...mouse talking to you? You weren't eating any wild mushrooms while you were out hunting were you?? ;P 

 

=D =D =D 

Talk to you later,

Paul


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## ThiagoMassa (Jun 5, 2003)

*thread at "Other arachnids"!*

Paul, I post a Thread about the ID of an Evarcha and post inside this one about what I thought it should be spiders, but Wade told they are not... 
I don´t know how to put a link so, its on the "other arachnids forum" with this title " Evarcha sp. - The Terminator - need some ID". Take a look and give your opinion! 

...about the mushrooms, hahaahah, no i didnt eat that! haeuaueauhahahaha LOL! 
=D 

Thanks
Massa


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## ThiagoMassa (Jun 5, 2003)

*HUGE CRICKET!*

two days before today, my scorp ate that ckicket on the photo, that cricket was completely eaten by the time of 1:30pm... Yesterday , at 01:30 am I found a HUGE nocturnal cricket.(comparin to the scorp, as long as the scorp but very fat, much more than the scorp), and put it on the scorp´s tank. The scorp catched it immediatelly! Now its 9:00 pm from the same day and the scorp is still eating the cricket, (the scorp is under that tree bark and i couldn´t take a good shot with my cam, so, no pics... I´m sorry ) I tried not disturbing the scorp on turning the bark uside down to take the picture...  
Well, the scorp looks very fat!
Oh, while I was whiting it th scorp stopped eating the cricket so I coult take a picture of how fat it is!


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## ThiagoMassa (Jun 5, 2003)

the lights are not helping here, so the pics are dark, and I took a pic of the scorp and half of the cricket (very dark picture, sorry).


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## XOskeletonRED (Jun 6, 2003)

Well, their eating habits seem to be quite similar to Centruroides scorpions in aspect of size ratio being equal to their own. My apologies on the delayed response, again. *lol* Paul, that is some excellent info, but do keep in mind, it has been stated that Tityus serrulatus and Tityus stigmurus may be the same species and stigmurus simply be a subspecies of serrulatus, so I wouldn't doubt T. stigmurus having the obtainability of the same potency of venom as serrulatus. Massa, if you happen to find any scorps of which are red in coloration, where the serrulatus are yellowed, let me know, because the only Tityus species I know of with coloration such as that, is stigmurus, which, as I stated, may have equal potency of venom to serrulatus, though most previous testing has shown otherwise. I'm going to run a search on locations which T. stigmurus are located to see if you can possible acquire any info which I may have been missing from my library.


adios,
edw. =D 

I definitely wish you more happy hunting.   I also recommend breaking your house down slowly and into small, manageable pieces and placing it carefully in each enclosure which you have these scorpions in. *lol* That pic is exactly how I pictured you! HAHAH!


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## ThiagoMassa (Jun 6, 2003)

Hey ed, no problem on the delay! 

The info I have tells that the T. stigmurus is not located were I live, here we just have the T. serrulatus and the T. fasciolatus (wich I have never seen, don´t know the coloration, or habits, no info at all, just that it is located here). The T. stigmurus lives in the Northeast of my country, in the states of, Bahia, Sergipe, Alagoas, Pernamuco, Paraíba, Rio Grande do Norte, Ceará and Piauí. (You can see on a mundi map). These states are located near to the equator line. It´s hotter and more humid there! Think it could possibly be an important fact...
I know we have the T. bahiensis, T. serrulatus, T. fasciolatus, T. stigmurus, T. cambridgei, T. costatus, T. metuendus, T. silvestris, Tityus cf. charreyroni, Mastigoproctus cf. brasiliensis, T. matogrossensis, Bothriurus bonariensis, Bothriurus araguayae . If anyone knows any other scorp in Brasil, please tell. 

About the colorations, people from my city only knows the "black" and the "yellow" scorpion, as they are called by the natives. Personally, I´ve never seen a black one. Do we have any black variation in T. serrulatus coloration? And what about the T. fasciolatus, what are the colorations?

Thanks on the hunting wishes! And be sure that I won´t use any hammer or axe in my house hunting scorps! ahahaha LOL! About my picture, how did you mean I´m exactly the way you pictured me, fisically or like a freak! aahahahahahhah *lol*


Thanks Edward!
Massa


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## phoenixxavierre (Jun 6, 2003)

*Re: thread at "Other arachnids"!*



> _Originally posted by ThiagoMassa _
> *Paul, I post a Thread about the ID of an Evarcha and post inside this one about what I thought it should be spiders, but Wade told they are not...
> I don´t know how to put a link so, its on the "other arachnids forum" with this title " Evarcha sp. - The Terminator - need some ID". Take a look and give your opinion!
> 
> ...


Thankyou, Massa! 

I'll check it out, though I'm by no means an expert. I just lucked out and had info on the species you were wondering about (thanks to a super cool guy!). 

Lol!! on the 'shrooms!! How do the Brazilians say Hahaha? 

Jajajajajajajajajaja!!!!  

Best wishes,

Paul


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## ThiagoMassa (Jun 6, 2003)

how do brazilians say hahaha?

well, here in brazil we say... hahaha!

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahah =D :} =D 

but it also can be, hehehehehehe, but here the "e" sounds different, thats why it can be used... actually, we feel free to use any variation of it like, hihihihihi, hoehaoehoaheoaaheohaoe, huhuhuuh... all of them means *lol*!

About the mushrooms here they´re "cogumelos"! 

hugs
Massa


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## redhourglass (Jun 6, 2003)

Greetings all,

I'm surprised no one mentioned the book that was published last year by Dr. Wilson Lourenco, "The Scorpions from Brazil".  Information for purchase can be found with Jan Ove's ScorpionFiles or at the ISA site.  Dr. Lourenco, from France, has published greatly with scorpion fauna in the this region of South America through journals but compiled all, if not most, in this book.  I don't have this book yet but since the topic of Brasil is ongoing thus my reason for posting as this is an interesting forum thread.

All the best Massa esp with Tityus id'n and be safe,

Sincerely,

Chad Lee


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## phoenixxavierre (Jun 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ThiagoMassa _
> *how do brazilians say hahaha?
> 
> well, here in brazil we say... hahaha!
> ...


Haha! Massa! 

;P 

I have a female friend from Brazil and in her emails she always writes: jajajajajajajaja! I forget off hand what part of Brazil she is from, but she has a really cool accent! lol! her native tongue was espangol but she spoke really good english. She said they taught it in Brazil as a second language. Again, I imagine this all depends on what area you're from, Brazil IS a big country!

On the mushrooms, Kewl! "Cogumelos", lol!

 

Best wishes,

Paul


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## XOskeletonRED (Jun 7, 2003)

Here's my current comp. gen. list of scorpions which I know to be from Brazil... (all species on my current list state that they are from S. America, but these are the only species of Brazil on my list. All others being from other locales in S. America). To clear it up before anyone else asks, this is my list of scorps I have on the computer as being from that location, not my collection.


1 Ananteris balzanii  South America 
2 Ananteris dekeyseri  South America 
3 Ananteris deniseae  South America 
4 Ananteris franckei  South America 
5 Ananteris luciae  South America 
6 Ananteris maranhensis  South America 
7 Ananteris mariaterezae  South America 
8 Ananteris mauryi  South America 
9 Ananteris pydanieli  South America 
10 Ananteris venezuelensis  South America 
11 Bothriurus araguayae  South America 
12 Bothriurus asper  South America 
13 Bothriurus bonariensis  South America 
14 Bothriurus chilensis  South America 
15 Bothriurus illudens  South America 
16 Bothriurus moojeni  South America 
17 Bothriurus rochai  South America 
18 Bothriurus rubescens  South America 
19 Bothriurus signatus  South America 
20 Bothriurus sooretamensis  South America 
21 Bothriurus vachoni  South America 
22 Brachistosternus ferrugineus  South America 
23 Broteochactas brejo  South America 
24 Broteochactas delicatus  Central America + South America 
25 Broteochactas goujei  South America 
26 Broteochactas mapuera  South America 
27 Broteochactas parvulus  South America 
28 Brotheas amazonicus  South America 
29 Brotheas gervaisii  South America 
30 Brotheas granulatus  South America 
31 Brotheas jourdani  South America 
32 Brotheas overali  South America 
33 Brotheas paraensis  South America 
34 Brotheas silvestris  South America 
35 Chactopsis amazonica  South America 
36 Chactopsis insignis  South America 
37 Guyanochactas mascarenhasi  South America 
38 Isometrus maculatus  Australia + South Pacific 
39 Microtityus vanzolinii  South America 
40 Opisthacanthus cayaporum  South America 
41 Rhopalurus acromelas  South America 
42 Rhopalurus agamemnon  South America 
43 Rhopalurus amazonicus  South America 
44 Rhopalurus debilis  South America 
45 Rhopalurus lacrau  South America 
46 Rhopalurus laticauda  Central America 
47 Rhopalurus piceus  South America 
48 Rhopalurus rochai  South America 
49 Teuthraustes amazonicus  South America 
50 Teuthraustes lisei  South America 
51 Thestylus glasioui  South America 
52 Thestylus signatus  South America 
53 Tityus acutidens  South America 
54 Tityus anneae  South America 
55 Tityus asthenes  Central America + South America 
56 Tityus bahiensis  South America 
57 Tityus bastosi  South America 
58 Tityus blaseri  South America 
59 Tityus brazilae  South America 
60 Tityus carvalhoi  South America 
61 Tityus charreyroni  South America 
62 Tityus clathratus  South America 
63 Tityus confluens  South America 
64 Tityus costatus  South America 
65 Tityus dinizi  Central America 
66 Tityus discrepans  Central America + South America 
67 Tityus evandroi  South America 
68 Tityus fasciolatus  South America 
69 Tityus indecisus  South America 
70 Tityus kuryi  South America 
71 Tityus lamottei  South America 
72 Tityus lutzi  South America 
73 Tityus magnimanus  South America 
74 Tityus mattogrossensis  South America 
75 Tityus metuendus  South America 
76 Tityus microcystis  South America 
77 Tityus munozi  South America 
78 Tityus neglectus  South America 
79 Tityus paraensis  South America 
80 Tityus paraguayensis  South America 
81 Tityus pusillus  South America 
82 Tityus raquelae  South America 
83 Tityus rufofuscus  South America 
84 Tityus serrulatus  South America 
85 Tityus silvestris  South America 
86 Tityus stigmurus  South America 
87 Tityus strandi  South America 
88 Tityus thelyacanthus  South America 
89 Tityus trivittatus  South America 
90 Tityus tucurui  South America 
91 Tityus uniformis  South America 
92 Tityus uruguayensis  South America 
93 Urophonius iheringii  South America 
94 Vachoniochactas ashleeae  South America 



adios,
edw. ;P

Would you like the subspecies of each of those as well? heheh...


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## neveragain (Jun 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by XOskeletonRED _
> *Here's my current list of scorpions which I know to be from Brazil... (all species on my current list state that they are from S. America, but these are the only species of Brazil on my list. All others being from other locales in S. America).
> 
> *


would you happen to have a picture of the room taht you keep all of your scorpions in?  i'd love to see how you have it arranged.


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## XOskeletonRED (Jun 7, 2003)

What I meant by current list, is the species which I have on my list (in my computer library of scorpions) as being from Brazil. I have none of the above named species because of the lack of ability to import from there. I don't really want to go to jail, even if it is free room and board.


adios,
edw. =D


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## neveragain (Jun 7, 2003)

haha, i kinda figured that, but i was reading the "invert lists" in the watering hole, and you seem to have a LOT of scorpions, haha =D


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## ThiagoMassa (Jun 7, 2003)

Thanks Chad Lee, I´ll go search for this book. I hope finding it here, in Brazil, importation is too much expensive here. Well, if its a book about the scorpions from BRAZIL, i think i´ll find it in BRAZIL! 

Thanks again  

Massa


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## ThiagoMassa (Jun 7, 2003)

Thanks Edward but I think I won´t need the subspecies of this "little" list you posted. hehehe But if I find somethig but a T. serrulatus and a T. fasciolatus, I show you the pic and you ID! hahahahaha
About the T. serrulatus, all of them are yellow coloured? And the T. fasciolatus?
Oh, i´d really love to see your scorps too. Post a pic for us!

hugs
Massa


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## ThiagoMassa (Jun 8, 2003)

I changed the setup of her tank, about that tree bark, I was afraid of bacteria, but now I have no way to degree the humidity. any way, i´m keeping the tank closed.. 
I put the same water "dish"...
any suggestions please post it here.

thanks 
Massa


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## ThiagoMassa (Jun 8, 2003)

there´s a five cents coin for comparison in the tank, and in the other pic, the scorp is hidden in that turtle "shell"..


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## phoenixxavierre (Jun 8, 2003)

> _Originally posted by XOskeletonRED _
> * Paul, that is some excellent info, but do keep in mind, it has been stated that Tityus serrulatus and Tityus stigmurus may be the same species and stigmurus simply be a subspecies of serrulatus, so I wouldn't doubt T. stigmurus having the obtainability of the same potency of venom as serrulatus. *


Edward,

Thanks, I'd love to have the entire book! I have excerpts, and those that I have are awesome!! 

Do you know if the two are similar in appearance or are there coloration differences? I don't have anything on T. stigmurus.

Best wishes,

Paul


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## phoenixxavierre (Jun 8, 2003)

Awesome pics, Massa! I'm sure you have lotsa people drooling over that Tityus!! lol!

:} :} :} 

 

Cheers,

Paul


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## XOskeletonRED (Jun 9, 2003)

T. stigmurus and serrulatus appear identical in aspects of everything except precise color. Where serrulatus is commonly yellow, stigmurus is commonly red. Dark areas in both species are dark in the same places, serrulatus having a usually brown, but on occasion, black, and stigmurus usually being black and on occasion, brown.


adios,
edw.


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## phoenixxavierre (Jun 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by XOskeletonRED _
> *T. stigmurus and serrulatus appear identical in aspects of everything except precise color. Where serrulatus is commonly yellow, stigmurus is commonly red. Dark areas in both species are dark in the same places, serrulatus having a usually brown, but on occasion, black, and stigmurus usually being black and on occasion, brown.
> 
> 
> ...


Interesting, Edward,

So more than likely they're actually the same? Just different color morph. Interesting indeed! 

Cheers,

Paul


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## ThiagoMassa (Jun 10, 2003)

So, the T. stigmurus reproduces by themselves too? I mean, no Males or Females, as Mat said about the T. serrulatus?


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## XOskeletonRED (Jun 14, 2003)

T. serrulatus, though some virgin females have been sited, also contains males. They are not in nearly as high of numbers as females, however. It has not been sited on whether T. stigmurus have ever been found to do the same, considering the numbers of males to females were always found to be greater than that of T. serrulatus. I can't remember what the T. serrulatus male to female ratio was in colony, but I believe it was nearing 300 females to 5 males. As soon as I find the info, I'll post it. T. stigmurus are around 1 male to 30 female, if I'm recalling correctly. Will try to find that info to post as well. 


adios,
edw. =D


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## phoenixxavierre (Jun 15, 2003)

*On scorpion feeding and Tityus serrulatus*

Hi all,

Just an extra little info I found on scorpion feeding in general and Tityus serrulatus from Scorpions of Medical Importance. 

Here goes:

"Food consists of insects and other arthropods of suitable size although cannibalism may also occur, and examples of some of the larger species have been seen feeding on lizards, snakes and other small vertebrates. Whittemore et al (1963) and Deoras (1961) found that laboratory colonies could be easily maintained on a diet of crickets and roaches. Bucherl (1971) found that specimens of the dangerously venomous Tityus serrulatus would feed readily on fragments of freshly killed tarantulas. The prey is captured by the pedipalps and if it is large or active it is stung repeatedly as the postabdomen or "tail" is arched over the back and the spine at the end of the telson is brought into action. After the prey has been captured by the pedipalps, it is moved to the chelicerae where a process of maceration begins. As the chelicerae tear the food into tiny particles, these are packed between the coxae of the pedipalps. At the same time, a secretion which liquifies tissues of the prey flows from the buccal area of the scorpion. As this happens, the coxae compress the food particles, and the "juice" thus produced in ingested by the scorpion. When all fluid has been expressed from food particles, the remaining dry pellets are discarded. The process has been described in detail by Stahnke (1966). Although scorpions will feed often if food is available, they, like the spiders, can survive for long periods of time without food if water is available."


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## Kugellager (Jun 16, 2003)

There has NEVER been a valid report of a male individual T.serrulatus (Polis, 1990 The Biology of Scorpions Pp 161-165).  There have been males found in at least one of the other morphs whithin the T.stigmurus complex of which T.serrulatus is a member of  but not for T.serrulatus itself.

John
];')


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## XOskeletonRED (Jun 17, 2003)

Well, I know I wasn't this (w/ emphasis) far off, but here's one abstract stating of male population in the species Tityus serrulatus. I'm still looking for the other which showed males existing in the species as well, and in the colony sited, was an extremely low male to female ratio, nearing what I had stated.


 Tityus serrulatus Lutz & Mello 1922 (in fact, the form confluenciata within the Tityus stigmurus complex) is an extremely toxic scorpion of considerable medical importance in Brazil. Its rapid spread is partially due to parthenogenesis. Speculation regarding the occurrence of sexual individuals has been resolved by the discovery of a population, described here, having a male-female sex ratio of 1/2.5.

This page was posted 12/21/2000 and last modified 11/27/02. 

adios,
edw.


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## Kugellager (Jun 17, 2003)

I actually saw that somewhere too but assumed(possibly incorrectly) that it was superceeded by Polis.

Shrug...seems like more detailed work needs to be done on this species complex.

Regardless of the sexual state of the above species complex...it is definitely one to hope we can get someday as an import.  Every polymorph of Tityus I have seen is definitely something to envy.

John
];')


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## XOskeletonRED (Jun 18, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kugellager _
> *Shrug...seems like more detailed work needs to be done on this species complex.
> 
> Regardless of the sexual state of the above species complex...it is definitely one to hope we can get someday as an import.  Every polymorph of Tityus I have seen is definitely something to envy.
> ...



 I'm in 100% agreement on that. I just look at those T. obtusus, T. stigmurus, and T. confluens and just drool and search for more information.  :}  Perhaps one day I'll get the opportunity to see them in their natural habitat and even perhaps to keep a few. I surely do hope so. I'll just have to visit Central and South America for the majority of them in their natural environment. That's not too far off. Too bad the money seems to be.


adios,
edw.  =D


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## ThiagoMassa (Jun 18, 2003)

Hey Ed, come to Brazil!!! On your vacations. Brasília is not the best place for what you are looking for but, you´ll be welcome here! =) At least we have a lot of T. serrulatus... 

All right people, considering my T. serrulatus is a female, when is she going to have babies? I´m crazy to see little baby scorps from Snowball! (The name of my scorp.. hahahahahahhaha *lol*)

hugs
Massa


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## XOskeletonRED (Jun 19, 2003)

Believe me. I plan on it one of these days. I also want to go to Central America for some vacationing. I wonder which will be first. I do have a couple weeks vacation time in August. If I can only come up with the funding by then to make a trip like that. T. serrulatus, T. costatus and T. bahiensis would be enough for me. heheh...


adios,
edw. =D


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## jper26 (Jun 19, 2003)

Maybe we could all pitch in and help fund you Ed your research on theses species would be very interesting.


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## XOskeletonRED (Jun 27, 2003)

All [8] named parthenogenetic species I have located are as follows...


A. coineaui
H. hottentota
L. australasiae
T. stigmurus - complete complex of four morphs, incl. T. serrulatus
T. uruguayensis
T. columbianus
T. trivittatus
T. metuendus 

 There is also a parthenogenetic species which consists of only males. It is unnamed, so it could be one of the above, but I believe it was just unnamed. I'll see if I can locate it and add it to this post.


adios,
edw.


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## Frank (Jun 27, 2003)

According to dictionary.com parthenogenetic means self-reproduction. So hottentota hottentota are parthenogenetic too? Interesting 


Thanks, Frank


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## XOskeletonRED (Jun 28, 2003)

> _Originally posted by FrankQC _
> *According to dictionary.com parthenogenetic means self-reproduction. So hottentota hottentota are parthenogenetic too? Interesting
> 
> 
> Thanks, Frank *



That is correct, Frank


adios,
edw.


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## Frank (Jun 28, 2003)

Okay, so if I get h. hottentotta, I'll be able to breed him-her without having to fear male-female canibalism heh...

That's very interesting, really, I think I'll add h. hottentotta to my list of scorp to get in the future.


edit: Hmm, you say that there's one species that are males only, and they can be in the list you wrote. So the 7 in the list are females only? How can males breed, if they only have the males gonades?

Oh and edw, according to the scorpionfiles it is hottentotta and not hottentota 


Thanks, Frank


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## XOskeletonRED (Jun 29, 2003)

Not all of the said species are all of one sex (as stated with Tityus serrulatus in another post of mine quite recently) and just because they are capeable of parthenogenesis, doesn't mean they will under the circumstances provided.

 The males being parthenogenetic is along the same lines as the females, though the sexual configuration, from what I gather, is somewhat more complicated. Developement of the young still takes place within the adult scorpion's body, from what I have read (not very much information about the species or anything else, to include the scientific name being posted and being stated to be parthenogenetic as a male only species).


 I know the spelling. I copied and pasted though, then only edited information of the complex of T. stigmurus.


adios,
edw.


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## ThiagoMassa (Jul 4, 2003)

*Black Light*

I have bought a black lamp today and lighted my scorp. I've ever heard about greenish and blueish colours on people scorps but my T. serrulatus glows yellow! Unfortunately, i don´t have a good camera so i could not take a good pic but it´s really beatifull! I have a picture (really bad =D), but you´ll have an idea...


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## ThiagoMassa (Jul 4, 2003)

Oh, well... as you can see, you CAN´T have any idea of it...  
but.. I tried...


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