# Yellow Sac Spider?



## pavel (Dec 3, 2011)

Found this little lady wandering the walls of my apt.  I was wondering if she's a _Cheiracanthium _-- perhaps _C. inclusium_?  


















Currently have her in a cube.  Any husbandry tips or is she unlikely to live much longer anyway?


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## John Apple (Dec 5, 2011)

Exactumundo...lol...see a lot of these in the house in the winters up here...we just leave them be


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## beetleman (Dec 5, 2011)

got 1 living in my door jam of my car,when i go out to the car,i'll see it srurring on the hood then it darts back in the door.like clockwork.amazing little thing.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Venom (Dec 6, 2011)

I caught a nice C. inclusum in a lounge at school this week. I put it in a ziploc I happened to have on me, and took it home! It's now residing happily in a tupperware at my apartment.  I love these little buggers. She's the 14th specimen of this species I've now kept.


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## YellowSacVictim (May 21, 2013)

*Yellow Sac Spider bites*

I moved into a house in October this year.  There's a large clan of yellow sacs here.  They've bitten me over 20 times in my sleep.  At first, I noticed painful 'cuts', i thought that's what they were.  Then I noticed several of them on my hands at the same time, that's when i noticed they were all sets of fang marks, they were all directly on/into my veins.  They felt no more painful than a very infected scrape.  The wounds appeared clearly infected and took longer than usual to heal- when healed I noticed a light degree of dermonecrosis.  90% of the bites occurred on my hands (specifically knuckles) and wrists.  Always directly into the veins.  I got 1 bite on my leg just above my ankle a few weeks ago, the vein has since turned a darker color but doesn't hurt.  Also about 2 bites further up my forearms.  The fang width is usually massive but I also got many small bites (always fangmarks, double puncture).  I've seen and captured them which is how I know they're yellow sacs.  I'm surprised I never feel them when it's happening while I'm sleeping, I don't feel them walking on me or biting me.  I usually notice the bite when I'm washing my hands the next day and I feel that very particular sting.  I've heard from many sources that this behavior is entirely undocumented and bizarre.  By my doctor, by several exterminators.  I was told "Spiders don't bite unless provoked, they don't seek out human victims, they don't get their nutrition from insect blood, they get it from insect organs." Everyone I've talked to is having a difficult time absorbing the reality of this situation and they're writing it off as impossible, I need to seek out an etymologist.  This entire crew of yellow sacs always know the difference between me lying down and being fully asleep.  They always locate the veins directly, always sink their fangs into the vein, I never feel any of it.  Also* after large bites or several bites within a few days a separate place on my skin directly above the vein collects the venom into a very itchy blister lookin thing, also lightly necrotic.  No pain.  I've been bitten so many times they just about covered all of my knuckles and all of my knuckles are necrotic.  I.e. the last bite I got was a large one on my pinky and the blister from that formed on my pointer finger of the same hand.  I'm concerned for my health, i don't know if over time this can really take a toll, or if it already is and I just don't feel it, i've actually gone over i think 2 weeks now without a bite and I'm very relieved and hope it stays this way.  I read that they don't like tea tree oil or citrus oils so i mixed tea tree and lemon and covered my hands and wrists and that's when I acquired a small bite further up my forearm.  I'm very freaked out about getting bitten even once more after I noticed the longterm development of dermonecrosis. After hearing about possible staph infections from the bites.  I'm ok and I feel fine, I think the venom sometimes affects my respiratory system.  I'm posting this because so far no one I've talked to has ever heard of anything like this, to the point they don't want to believe it, and they obviously have no idea how to help me, a battery of exterminators and renovations have not helped.  Should I go to a dermatologist? Is there anyway to make these yellow sacs go away? Has anyone ever heard of a similar problem? Even if, very hopefully, they've ceased for now, I don't want to go through this nightmare again next autumn.  I have pictures of some of the bites as well. Also- how are they locating the veins with such skill - are they using their sense of smell or do they have thermosensitive vision or both?  How are they so lightfooted that I don't feel them crawling on me? Do they inject an anesthetic venom so I'm not feeling the bite til hours later?  Any information would be helpful, thanks.

Reactions: Dislike 1 | Clarification Please 1


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## Ciphor (May 21, 2013)

YellowSacVictim said:


> I moved into a house in October this year.  There's a large clan of yellow sacs here.  They've bitten me over 20 times in my sleep.  At first, I noticed painful 'cuts', i thought that's what they were.  Then I noticed several of them on my hands at the same time, that's when i noticed they were all sets of fang marks, they were all directly on/into my veins.  They felt no more painful than a very infected scrape.  The wounds appeared clearly infected and took longer than usual to heal- when healed I noticed a light degree of dermonecrosis.  90% of the bites occurred on my hands (specifically knuckles) and wrists.  Always directly into the veins.  I got 1 bite on my leg just above my ankle a few weeks ago, the vein has since turned a darker color but doesn't hurt.  Also about 2 bites further up my forearms.  The fang width is usually massive but I also got many small bites (always fangmarks, double puncture).  I've seen and captured them which is how I know they're yellow sacs.  I'm surprised I never feel them when it's happening while I'm sleeping, I don't feel them walking on me or biting me.  I usually notice the bite when I'm washing my hands the next day and I feel that very particular sting.  I've heard from many sources that this behavior is entirely undocumented and bizarre.  By my doctor, by several exterminators.  I was told "Spiders don't bite unless provoked, they don't seek out human victims, they don't get their nutrition from insect blood, they get it from insect organs." Everyone I've talked to is having a difficult time absorbing the reality of this situation and they're writing it off as impossible, I need to seek out an etymologist.  This entire crew of yellow sacs always know the difference between me lying down and being fully asleep.  They always locate the veins directly, always sink their fangs into the vein, I never feel any of it.  Also* after large bites or several bites within a few days a separate place on my skin directly above the vein collects the venom into a very itchy blister lookin thing, also lightly necrotic.  No pain.  I've been bitten so many times they just about covered all of my knuckles and all of my knuckles are necrotic.  I.e. the last bite I got was a large one on my pinky and the blister from that formed on my pointer finger of the same hand.  I'm concerned for my health, i don't know if over time this can really take a toll, or if it already is and I just don't feel it, i've actually gone over i think 2 weeks now without a bite and I'm very relieved and hope it stays this way.  I read that they don't like tea tree oil or citrus oils so i mixed tea tree and lemon and covered my hands and wrists and that's when I acquired a small bite further up my forearm.  I'm very freaked out about getting bitten even once more after I noticed the longterm development of dermonecrosis. After hearing about possible staph infections from the bites.  I'm ok and I feel fine, I think the venom sometimes affects my respiratory system.  I'm posting this because so far no one I've talked to has ever heard of anything like this, to the point they don't want to believe it, and they obviously have no idea how to help me, a battery of exterminators and renovations have not helped.  Should I go to a dermatologist? Is there anyway to make these yellow sacs go away? Has anyone ever heard of a similar problem? Even if, very hopefully, they've ceased for now, I don't want to go through this nightmare again next autumn.  I have pictures of some of the bites as well. Also- how are they locating the veins with such skill - are they using their sense of smell or do they have thermosensitive vision or both?  How are they so lightfooted that I don't feel them crawling on me? Do they inject an anesthetic venom so I'm not feeling the bite til hours later?  Any information would be helpful, thanks.


Someone else want to get this one? I can't battle anymore myths today. ID'ing myths really took the wind out of my sail.

YellowSacVictim, you don't need an Entomologist if you are believing a clan of sac spiders wait for you to go to bed, then suck blood from your veins while you sleep. You need a freaking psychologist bro.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Smokehound714 (May 21, 2013)

YellowSacVictim said:


> I moved into a house in October this year.  There's a large clan of yellow sacs here.  They've bitten me over 20 times in my sleep.  At first, I noticed painful 'cuts', i thought that's what they were.  Then I noticed several of them on my hands at the same time, that's when i noticed they were all sets of fang marks, they were all directly on/into my veins.  They felt no more painful than a very infected scrape.  The wounds appeared clearly infected and took longer than usual to heal- when healed I noticed a light degree of dermonecrosis.  90% of the bites occurred on my hands (specifically knuckles) and wrists.  Always directly into the veins.  I got 1 bite on my leg just above my ankle a few weeks ago, the vein has since turned a darker color but doesn't hurt.  Also about 2 bites further up my forearms.  The fang width is usually massive but I also got many small bites (always fangmarks, double puncture).  I've seen and captured them which is how I know they're yellow sacs.  I'm surprised I never feel them when it's happening while I'm sleeping, I don't feel them walking on me or biting me.  I usually notice the bite when I'm washing my hands the next day and I feel that very particular sting.  I've heard from many sources that this behavior is entirely undocumented and bizarre.  By my doctor, by several exterminators.  I was told "Spiders don't bite unless provoked, they don't seek out human victims, they don't get their nutrition from insect blood, they get it from insect organs." Everyone I've talked to is having a difficult time absorbing the reality of this situation and they're writing it off as impossible, I need to seek out an etymologist.  This entire crew of yellow sacs always know the difference between me lying down and being fully asleep.  They always locate the veins directly, always sink their fangs into the vein, I never feel any of it.  Also* after large bites or several bites within a few days a separate place on my skin directly above the vein collects the venom into a very itchy blister lookin thing, also lightly necrotic.  No pain.  I've been bitten so many times they just about covered all of my knuckles and all of my knuckles are necrotic.  I.e. the last bite I got was a large one on my pinky and the blister from that formed on my pointer finger of the same hand.  I'm concerned for my health, i don't know if over time this can really take a toll, or if it already is and I just don't feel it, i've actually gone over i think 2 weeks now without a bite and I'm very relieved and hope it stays this way.  I read that they don't like tea tree oil or citrus oils so i mixed tea tree and lemon and covered my hands and wrists and that's when I acquired a small bite further up my forearm.  I'm very freaked out about getting bitten even once more after I noticed the longterm development of dermonecrosis. After hearing about possible staph infections from the bites.  I'm ok and I feel fine, I think the venom sometimes affects my respiratory system.  I'm posting this because so far no one I've talked to has ever heard of anything like this, to the point they don't want to believe it, and they obviously have no idea how to help me, a battery of exterminators and renovations have not helped.  Should I go to a dermatologist? Is there anyway to make these yellow sacs go away? Has anyone ever heard of a similar problem? Even if, very hopefully, they've ceased for now, I don't want to go through this nightmare again next autumn.  I have pictures of some of the bites as well. Also- how are they locating the veins with such skill - are they using their sense of smell or do they have thermosensitive vision or both?  How are they so lightfooted that I don't feel them crawling on me? Do they inject an anesthetic venom so I'm not feeling the bite til hours later?  Any information would be helpful, thanks.


Yellow Sac spiders are harmless, and their venom is not necrotic.

  I would give you advice, but seeing as you're likely a former banned user returning to troll us out of spite, i'd rather not.

 I WILL, however propagate some yellow sac spiders, though.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Silberrücken (May 21, 2013)

YellowSacVictim:

Have the house checked for bedbugs ad other biting insects. I don't think the yellow sac spiders are to blame for your bites. Unless you have actually witnessed a yellow sac spider biting you, I would disregard them as the culprit. Spiders don't seek out veins as biting spots - they bite anywhere.

I would place my bet on bedbugs or a flying insect as your culprit.


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## Tarantula155 (May 21, 2013)

YellowSacVictim said:


> I moved into a house in October this year.  There's a large clan of yellow sacs here.  They've bitten me over 20 times in my sleep.  At first, I noticed painful 'cuts', i thought that's what they were.  Then I noticed several of them on my hands at the same time, that's when i noticed they were all sets of fang marks, they were all directly on/into my veins.  They felt no more painful than a very infected scrape.  The wounds appeared clearly infected and took longer than usual to heal- when healed I noticed a light degree of dermonecrosis.  90% of the bites occurred on my hands (specifically knuckles) and wrists.  Always directly into the veins.  I got 1 bite on my leg just above my ankle a few weeks ago, the vein has since turned a darker color but doesn't hurt.  Also about 2 bites further up my forearms.  The fang width is usually massive but I also got many small bites (always fangmarks, double puncture).  I've seen and captured them which is how I know they're yellow sacs.  I'm surprised I never feel them when it's happening while I'm sleeping, I don't feel them walking on me or biting me.  I usually notice the bite when I'm washing my hands the next day and I feel that very particular sting.  I've heard from many sources that this behavior is entirely undocumented and bizarre.  By my doctor, by several exterminators.  I was told "Spiders don't bite unless provoked, they don't seek out human victims, they don't get their nutrition from insect blood, they get it from insect organs." Everyone I've talked to is having a difficult time absorbing the reality of this situation and they're writing it off as impossible, I need to seek out an etymologist.  This entire crew of yellow sacs always know the difference between me lying down and being fully asleep.  They always locate the veins directly, always sink their fangs into the vein, I never feel any of it.  Also* after large bites or several bites within a few days a separate place on my skin directly above the vein collects the venom into a very itchy blister lookin thing, also lightly necrotic.  No pain.  I've been bitten so many times they just about covered all of my knuckles and all of my knuckles are necrotic.  I.e. the last bite I got was a large one on my pinky and the blister from that formed on my pointer finger of the same hand.  I'm concerned for my health, i don't know if over time this can really take a toll, or if it already is and I just don't feel it, i've actually gone over i think 2 weeks now without a bite and I'm very relieved and hope it stays this way.  I read that they don't like tea tree oil or citrus oils so i mixed tea tree and lemon and covered my hands and wrists and that's when I acquired a small bite further up my forearm.  I'm very freaked out about getting bitten even once more after I noticed the longterm development of dermonecrosis. After hearing about possible staph infections from the bites.  I'm ok and I feel fine, I think the venom sometimes affects my respiratory system.  I'm posting this because so far no one I've talked to has ever heard of anything like this, to the point they don't want to believe it, and they obviously have no idea how to help me, a battery of exterminators and renovations have not helped.  Should I go to a dermatologist? Is there anyway to make these yellow sacs go away? Has anyone ever heard of a similar problem? Even if, very hopefully, they've ceased for now, I don't want to go through this nightmare again next autumn.  I have pictures of some of the bites as well. Also- how are they locating the veins with such skill - are they using their sense of smell or do they have thermosensitive vision or both?  How are they so lightfooted that I don't feel them crawling on me? Do they inject an anesthetic venom so I'm not feeling the bite til hours later?  Any information would be helpful, thanks.



I have a real hard time believing you. I wont be surprised if you find some bedbugs later..

---------- Post added 05-21-2013 at 01:34 PM ----------




Smokehound714 said:


> Yellow Sac spiders are harmless, and their venom is not necrotic.
> 
> I would give you advice, but seeing as you're likely a former banned user returning to troll us out of spite, i'd rather not.
> 
> I WILL, however propagate some yellow sac spiders, though.


That's what I was thinking.

---------- Post added 05-21-2013 at 01:36 PM ----------




Ciphor said:


> Someone else want to get this one? I can't battle anymore myths today. ID'ing myths really took the wind out of my sail.
> 
> YellowSacVictim, you don't need an Entomologist if you are believing a clan of sac spiders wait for you to go to bed, then suck blood from your veins while you sleep. You need a freaking psychologist bro.



:laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## Smokehound714 (May 22, 2013)

I've read that nectar is actually pretty important to these spiders, and they'll spend considerable time looking for it.

  There was a study that came to the conclusion that yellow sac spiders are healthier overall when given nectar, they become more fecund as well.

 This may actually increase their lifespan, and help them resist mycosis.  Plus they possibly need the sugar.

  That's something i havent thought of..  adding sugar to water for my jumpers.  I do know some jumpers will actually bite at leaves and soft fruit to get a drink. 

  for active species like sac spiders and salticids, this may be the reason they die so soon in captivity.


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## Ciphor (May 22, 2013)

Smokehound714 said:


> I've read that nectar is actually pretty important to these spiders, and they'll spend considerable time looking for it.
> 
> There was a study that came to the conclusion that yellow sac spiders are healthier overall when given nectar, they become more fecund as well.
> 
> ...


The reason Salticids have short lifespans is there high BRM. They use a lot of energy to jump and keep their vision on a pivot. To the best of my knowledge, sugar is bad for the vast majority of arthropods including spiders. I remember when someone at work let my _Hierodula membranacea_ eat part of her cupcake; one week later her 1st pair of legs (the ones that are modified for grasping prey) started to dry out at the tip of the walking appendage. The drying out went all the way down her front legs till they were no longer functional. Her antennae also dried out and fell off. Approximately 2 weeks after the cupcake she passed away.

I could be wrong, I've never really done research on this subject, that is just my personal experience and a general assumption that sugar is a specialized food for arthropods (ants, bees, etc.)

You said you read about it somewhere? Can you share the paper/article?


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## Tarantula155 (May 22, 2013)

Smokehound714 said:


> I've read that nectar is actually pretty important to these spiders, and they'll spend considerable time looking for it.
> 
> There was a study that came to the conclusion that yellow sac spiders are healthier overall when given nectar, they become more fecund as well.
> 
> ...


Very interesting! You're telling me that I should give my yellow sac spiders some banana or raspberry?


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## Smokehound714 (May 22, 2013)

Ciphor said:


> The reason Salticids have short lifespans is there high BRM. They use a lot of energy to jump and keep their vision on a pivot. To the best of my knowledge, sugar is bad for the vast majority of arthropods including spiders. I remember when someone at work let my _Hierodula membranacea_ eat part of her cupcake; one week later her 1st pair of legs (the ones that are modified for grasping prey) started to dry out at the tip of the walking appendage. The drying out went all the way down her front legs till they were no longer functional. Her antennae also dried out and fell off. Approximately 2 weeks after the cupcake she passed away.
> 
> I could be wrong, I've never really done research on this subject, that is just my personal experience and a general assumption that sugar is a specialized food for arthropods (ants, bees, etc.)
> 
> You said you read about it somewhere? Can you share the paper/article?


http://naldc.nal.usda.gov/download/37223/PDF

 i'm not saying give them unusual things like people food, but a fresh juicy grape given as a drinking source might be alot better than water alone. Well, provided it's fresh and not left to mold up.

 The sugar in the nectar could help replenish their energy.  The article also mentions the use of extra floral nectaries in cotton fields by various species. 

  Sorry for not providing that source earlier.  people look at me like i'm a total crack-pot whenever i bring this up 



			
				theholyarachnid said:
			
		

> Very interesting! you're telling me that i should give my yellow sac spiders some banana or raspberry?


 I would stick to more juicier fruits with a high water content, like grape.  

  The article also mentions that orb weavers consume the pollen that blows into their webs, and do benefit from it.


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## Tarantula155 (May 22, 2013)

Smokehound714 said:


> http://naldc.nal.usda.gov/download/37223/PDF
> 
> i'm not saying give them unusual things like people food, but a fresh juicy grape given as a drinking source might be alot better than water alone. Well, provided it's fresh and not left to mold up.
> 
> ...


Neat! I will give my yellow sac spiders a grape once in a while.


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## The Snark (May 23, 2013)

I would really like someone in the know to weigh in on the ability of spiders in general to digest pure carbohydrates (sugars) and how their metabolism handles it. To my thinking, simple carbohydrate intake could easily unbalance/destabilize the entire basal metabolism of the animal. Along the lines, in reverse, of humans trying to digest and subsist on paper.


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## Smokehound714 (May 23, 2013)

The Snark said:


> I would really like someone in the know to weigh in on the ability of spiders in general to digest pure carbohydrates (sugars) and how their metabolism handles it. To my thinking, simple carbohydrate intake could easily unbalance/destabilize the entire basal metabolism of the animal. Along the lines, in reverse, of humans trying to digest and subsist on paper.


Not ALL spiders do this.  I cant remember where i saw the pic of the jumping spider biting into a leaf to drink the juice.

  i've witnessed phidippus audax drinking nectar myself, from oxalis flowers in my back yard.  I make my yard jumper-friendly, has tons of audax, johnsoni, sassacus, and habronattus, and i've seen them all drinking nectar from these flowers.    mismunoides crab spiders are also noted to heavily consume nectar.

 I dont see comparing nectar to paper being anywhere near accurate.  Did you even read the article before you posted that?

 There's also bagheera kiplingi.. and they eat a great deal of plant matter, the beltian bodies of acacias!  I know for a fact that phidippus can be quite long-lived.  I've seen big huge females and males with a legspan OVER a quarter.






 she has nearly a 1" BL, and she molted recently AFTER adulthood.

  before i ever caught her, she set up residence near my window, same routine every day, she would bask on the windowsill for a little bit, then make her way to the rose bush, jumping from the wall to the branch, then climb down and drink from the flowers, then go sit near the top of the ornamental asparagus that I've allowed to fallow.

 she did this for over a year.

 Some members of phidippus are strongly associated with a certain species of plant, like californicus being found most often near white sage, which produces quite a bit of nectar.


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## The Snark (May 23, 2013)

The Snark said:


> I would really like someone in the know to weigh in on the ability of spiders in general to digest pure carbohydrates (sugars) and how their metabolism handles it. To my thinking, simple carbohydrate intake could easily unbalance/destabilize the entire basal metabolism of the animal. Along the lines, in reverse, of humans trying to digest and subsist on paper.


Nectar is not, plant juice is not

Reactions: Like 1


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## spiderengineer (May 23, 2013)

YellowSacVictim said:


> I moved into a house in October this year.  There's a large clan of yellow sacs here.  They've bitten me over 20 times in my sleep.  At first, I noticed painful 'cuts', i thought that's what they were.  Then I noticed several of them on my hands at the same time, that's when i noticed they were all sets of fang marks, they were all directly on/into my veins.  They felt no more painful than a very infected scrape.  The wounds appeared clearly infected and took longer than usual to heal- when healed I noticed a light degree of dermonecrosis.  90% of the bites occurred on my hands (specifically knuckles) and wrists.  Always directly into the veins.  I got 1 bite on my leg just above my ankle a few weeks ago, the vein has since turned a darker color but doesn't hurt.  Also about 2 bites further up my forearms.  The fang width is usually massive but I also got many small bites (always fangmarks, double puncture).  I've seen and captured them which is how I know they're yellow sacs.  I'm surprised I never feel them when it's happening while I'm sleeping, I don't feel them walking on me or biting me.  I usually notice the bite when I'm washing my hands the next day and I feel that very particular sting.  I've heard from many sources that this behavior is entirely undocumented and bizarre.  By my doctor, by several exterminators.  I was told "Spiders don't bite unless provoked, they don't seek out human victims, they don't get their nutrition from insect blood, they get it from insect organs." Everyone I've talked to is having a difficult time absorbing the reality of this situation and they're writing it off as impossible, I need to seek out an etymologist.  This entire crew of yellow sacs always know the difference between me lying down and being fully asleep.  They always locate the veins directly, always sink their fangs into the vein, I never feel any of it.  Also* after large bites or several bites within a few days a separate place on my skin directly above the vein collects the venom into a very itchy blister lookin thing, also lightly necrotic.  No pain.  I've been bitten so many times they just about covered all of my knuckles and all of my knuckles are necrotic.  I.e. the last bite I got was a large one on my pinky and the blister from that formed on my pointer finger of the same hand.  I'm concerned for my health, i don't know if over time this can really take a toll, or if it already is and I just don't feel it, i've actually gone over i think 2 weeks now without a bite and I'm very relieved and hope it stays this way.  I read that they don't like tea tree oil or citrus oils so i mixed tea tree and lemon and covered my hands and wrists and that's when I acquired a small bite further up my forearm.  I'm very freaked out about getting bitten even once more after I noticed the longterm development of dermonecrosis. After hearing about possible staph infections from the bites.  I'm ok and I feel fine, I think the venom sometimes affects my respiratory system.  I'm posting this because so far no one I've talked to has ever heard of anything like this, to the point they don't want to believe it, and they obviously have no idea how to help me, a battery of exterminators and renovations have not helped.  Should I go to a dermatologist? Is there anyway to make these yellow sacs go away? Has anyone ever heard of a similar problem? Even if, very hopefully, they've ceased for now, I don't want to go through this nightmare again next autumn.  I have pictures of some of the bites as well. Also- how are they locating the veins with such skill - are they using their sense of smell or do they have thermosensitive vision or both?  How are they so lightfooted that I don't feel them crawling on me? Do they inject an anesthetic venom so I'm not feeling the bite til hours later?  Any information would be helpful, thanks.


yeah I am going to go a head and call you out on this. the only spider I have been bitten by was a yellow sac spider and it stung and that was it.


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## Ciphor (May 23, 2013)

In reading that paper Smokehound, the results sound like it was not beneficial to the spider. It also did not conclude anything really, it just provided the results of the tests. Usually when someone avoids a conclusion it is because the results were not clear one way or another.


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## Silberrücken (May 23, 2013)

BTW, people...  the member named YellowSacVictim has not replied once since posting...  I smell a troll. Let's not feed it. :sarcasm:

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ciphor (May 23, 2013)

Meh, we have derailed the topic. Best thing you can do to trolls, turn the frown upside down.


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## Tarantula155 (May 23, 2013)

Ciphor said:


> Meh, we have derailed the topic. Best thing you can do to trolls, turn the frown upside down.


Agreed, +1


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## John Apple (May 23, 2013)

YellowSacVictim said:


> I moved into a house in October this year.  There's a large clan of yellow sacs here.  They've bitten me over 20 times in my sleep.  At first, I noticed painful 'cuts', i thought that's what they were.  Then I noticed several of them on my hands at the same time, that's when i noticed they were all sets of fang marks, they were all directly on/into my veins.  They felt no more painful than a very infected scrape.  The wounds appeared clearly infected and took longer than usual to heal- when healed I noticed a light degree of dermonecrosis.  90% of the bites occurred on my hands (specifically knuckles) and wrists.  Always directly into the veins.  I got 1 bite on my leg just above my ankle a few weeks ago, the vein has since turned a darker color but doesn't hurt.  Also about 2 bites further up my forearms.  The fang width is usually massive but I also got many small bites (always fangmarks, double puncture).  I've seen and captured them which is how I know they're yellow sacs.  I'm surprised I never feel them when it's happening while I'm sleeping, I don't feel them walking on me or biting me.  I usually notice the bite when I'm washing my hands the next day and I feel that very particular sting.  I've heard from many sources that this behavior is entirely undocumented and bizarre.  By my doctor, by several exterminators.  I was told "Spiders don't bite unless provoked, they don't seek out human victims, they don't get their nutrition from insect blood, they get it from insect organs." Everyone I've talked to is having a difficult time absorbing the reality of this situation and they're writing it off as impossible, I need to seek out an etymologist.  This entire crew of yellow sacs always know the difference between me lying down and being fully asleep.  They always locate the veins directly, always sink their fangs into the vein, I never feel any of it.  Also* after large bites or several bites within a few days a separate place on my skin directly above the vein collects the venom into a very itchy blister lookin thing, also lightly necrotic.  No pain.  I've been bitten so many times they just about covered all of my knuckles and all of my knuckles are necrotic.  I.e. the last bite I got was a large one on my pinky and the blister from that formed on my pointer finger of the same hand.  I'm concerned for my health, i don't know if over time this can really take a toll, or if it already is and I just don't feel it, i've actually gone over i think 2 weeks now without a bite and I'm very relieved and hope it stays this way.  I read that they don't like tea tree oil or citrus oils so i mixed tea tree and lemon and covered my hands and wrists and that's when I acquired a small bite further up my forearm.  I'm very freaked out about getting bitten even once more after I noticed the longterm development of dermonecrosis. After hearing about possible staph infections from the bites.  I'm ok and I feel fine, I think the venom sometimes affects my respiratory system.  I'm posting this because so far no one I've talked to has ever heard of anything like this, to the point they don't want to believe it, and they obviously have no idea how to help me, a battery of exterminators and renovations have not helped.  Should I go to a dermatologist? Is there anyway to make these yellow sacs go away? Has anyone ever heard of a similar problem? Even if, very hopefully, they've ceased for now, I don't want to go through this nightmare again next autumn.  I have pictures of some of the bites as well. Also- how are they locating the veins with such skill - are they using their sense of smell or do they have thermosensitive vision or both?  How are they so lightfooted that I don't feel them crawling on me? Do they inject an anesthetic venom so I'm not feeling the bite til hours later?  Any information would be helpful, thanks.


anyone else thinking bedbugs


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## Silberrücken (May 23, 2013)

John Apple said:


> anyone else thinking bedbugs


Yep. I mentioned it earlier in thread.



Silberrücken said:


> YellowSacVictim:
> 
> Have the house checked for bedbugs ad other biting insects. I don't think the yellow sac spiders are to blame for your bites. Unless you have actually witnessed a yellow sac spider biting you, I would disregard them as the culprit. Spiders don't seek out veins as biting spots - they bite anywhere.
> 
> I would place my bet on bedbugs or a flying insect as your culprit.


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## The Snark (May 23, 2013)

Actually, we are doing ourselves a disservice here. We have one of two aspects needing consideration. Either a clan or crew of some form of spider that possesses the unerring skill of a phlebotomist and the innate equivalent of an electroencephalograph along with other very unusual traits and abilities OR we have a person, obviously nearly literate and educated above that of mid west beer swilling high skool graduate who drops a load on these board yet does not return to glean the usual psychological responses to his/her efforts. Either way, most peculiar. 

In closing, I would suggest the OP by all means seek out an etymologist. I'm sure the added knowledge of the roots of various words will be just as informative as anything a qualified insect expert could come up with. Best wishes to you and hopes for a quick recovery (from your psychosis).

Reactions: Like 1


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## Smokehound714 (May 23, 2013)

Ciphor said:


> In reading that paper Smokehound, the results sound like it was not beneficial to the spider. It also did not conclude anything really, it just provided the results of the tests. Usually when someone avoids a conclusion it is because the results were not clear one way or another.


 *Results
For every parameter tested (growth, size, fecundity,
and offspring survival), spiders fed Þve eggs with
nectar differed signiÞcantly from their counterparts
without nectar, because none of the spiders on the 5
egg/ N diet molted to adulthood (Figs. 1Ð4). Formal
statistical comparisons were impossible within this
group. Spiders fed one egg lived longer and underwent
many more molts if they also received nectar. Nectar
contributed to the fecundity and growth rate of spiders
on the 25-egg diet. Measures of offspring survival
showed mixed results, although starved offspring of
females fed 125 eggs with nectar lived longer than
offspring of similarly fed females without nectar.
Time to Reach Adulthood. In the 5-egg diet, nectar
made the difference whether spiders reached adulthood
or not. Nineteen of the spiders fed 5 eggs/ N
matured to adulthood. Conversely, none of the spiders
fed 5 eggs/ N reached adulthood. Spiders on the
25-egg diet also reached adulthood signiÞcantly
sooner if they also received nectar (Mann-Whitney,
U   497.5, P   0.02; Fig. 1).
None of the spiders fed only one egg reached adulthood.
Among those that also received nectar, however,
12 molted seven times and two molted nine
times. (One individual survived an unexpected 505 d.)
By comparison, all of the spiders fed one egg without
nectar died before, during, or days after their second
molt. All of the spiders fed 125 eggs reached adult-
hood. Nectar did not affect their rate of maturation
(Mann-Whitney,U 458.5, P 0.19). All comparisons
were planned and within diets.   was 0.05.
Body Size. Only by adding nectar to Þve eggs were
both males and females able to reach adulthood (Fig.
2). Comparisons within the 25- and 125-egg diets
showed that adding nectar made no statistical difference
in body size for males or females (25 eggs: males,
Mann-Whitney U   104.5, P   0.67; females, Mann-
Whitney, U   83.5 P   0.28; 125-eggs: males, Mann-
Whitney U   92.0, P   0.21; females, Mann-Whitney
U   64.0, P   0.47). Comparison across diets of males
and females fed 5 eggs with males and females fed 25
eggs/ Nshowed the marginally fed (Þve eggs) adults
to be relatively and notably small (males, Mann-Whitney
U 53.0, P 0.0017; females, Mann-Whitney U 
47.0, P   0.0007).*

 I dunno, that sounds pretty beneficial to me.  

 edit: whoa, the text copied pasted with errors.  what the heck?


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## Ciphor (May 24, 2013)

My bad, I totally missed that. Speed reading fail haha. Found it now though.

"Formal statistical comparisons were impossible within this group." Interesting assessment. Very interesting read either way smokehound, ty for sharing. At least proves it doesn't kill them. I might have to mess around with this now that I'm curious!

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## YellowSacVictim (May 25, 2013)

Hello- this is yellow sac spider victim- they're not bed bugs, all of my stuff has been checked by multiple exterminator companies. I also read that spiders are the only insect which leave fang marks - it's not a question anymore whether yellow sacs are biting me or not anymore, I also mentioned that I have PICTURES of the bites- also if you will not respect me coming here looking for help please keep your thoughts to yourself. I'm looking for help, if you're all into spiders as much as you appear to be, I believe that many of you would be extremely interested in this bizarre case and undocumented behavior. Please, I'm looking for help. Thanks.


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## Silberrücken (May 25, 2013)

YellowSacVictim said:


> Hello- this is yellow sac spider victim- they're not bed bugs, all of my stuff has been checked by multiple exterminator companies. I also read that spiders are the only insect which leave fang marks - it's not a question anymore whether yellow sacs are biting me or not anymore, I also mentioned that I have PICTURES of the bites- also if you will not respect me coming here looking for help please keep your thoughts to yourself. I'm looking for help, if you're all into spiders as much as you appear to be, I believe that many of you would be extremely interested in this bizarre case and undocumented behavior. Please, I'm looking for help. Thanks.


What I, and many other members as well, would like to know is this:

At any time have you witnessed a YSS biting you? The behavior of the bites received does not "fit" the characteristics of YSS. This is why some of us are somewhat sceptical of the bites being caused by YSS. More details about your living area and all onfo possible that you can think of will help us help you.

If I may make a suggestion:

Set up a video camera to record yourself as you sleep - whatever is biting you will show up on camera and there you will have undeniable proof and then you can take action to eradicate the problem.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Tarantula155 (May 25, 2013)

Silberrücken said:


> What I, and many other members as well, would like to know is this:
> 
> At any time have you witnessed a YSS biting you? The behavior of the bites received does not "fit" the characteristics of YSS. This is why some of us are somewhat sceptical of the bites being caused by YSS. More details about your living area and all onfo possible that you can think of will help us help you.
> 
> ...


I agree 100%. 

@YellowSacVictim
You can assume yellow sac spiders bite you at night all you want, but you do not know for sure until you witness them biting you.


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## Smokehound714 (May 25, 2013)

yellowsacvictim said:
			
		

> Hello- this is yellow sac spider victim- they're not bed bugs, all of my stuff has been checked by multiple exterminator companies. *I also read that spiders are the only insect which leave fang marks* - it's not a question anymore whether yellow sacs are biting me or not anymore, I also mentioned that I have PICTURES of the bites- *also if you will not respect me coming here looking for help please keep your thoughts to yourself.* I'm looking for help, if you're all into spiders as much as you appear to be, I believe that many of you would be extremely interested in this bizarre case and undocumented behavior. Please, I'm looking for help. Thanks.


 You purposely called spiders an insect to troll people into correcting you...  So lame.. 


  I've never had reactions to yellow sac spider bites, we have both mildei and inclusum in my area, and i've been bit by both.  

  I dont respect people that scapegoat innocent animals.  Sorry.


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## spiderengineer (May 25, 2013)

what I don't understand is the person wants help. yet what exactly do you need help with, you seem convince its yellow sac spider and you have all ready contact exterminator companies. it seems like you need to fumigate you house regardless of what is causing this.

---------- Post added 05-25-2013 at 07:44 PM ----------




YellowSacVictim said:


> I have pictures of some of the bites as well.


pics or it didn't happen.


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## Tarantula155 (May 25, 2013)

Smokehound714 said:


> You purposely called spiders an insect to troll people into correcting you...  So lame..
> 
> 
> I've never had reactions to yellow sac spider bites, we have both mildei and inclusum in my area, and i've been bit by both.
> ...


Bravo!

Sad thing is many people will believe that. Then, the poor yellow sac will be killed very often by people who believe they are 'dangerous'. 

@YellowSacVictim I'm sorry but I don't believe a single word you've said. Sure, you might have a bug that is biting and sucking your blood at night. But I am sure as hell it's not a yellow sac spider, especially if it happens every night.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Terryy (Oct 8, 2016)

I was bitten by a yellow sac spider a month ago.  I was sitting on my couch downstairs watching TV when I saw it hanging from its thread just before it landed on my arm. I tried to swipe it away and it bit me. I caught the bugger and killed it. I saved it; researched it and it was definitely a yellow sac spider.
The bite hurt and it felt like a tiny splinter when I touched it. I could see two tiny holes...I guess fang marks.  Within 24 hours it was swollen, inflamed and hard. At first, there was a white circle around the bite, about 1/2" across surrounded by an inflamed circle about 1 1/2" across. The white centre changed to pink like the rest after about 48hrs. It ended up about 3 " across and stayed swollen, hard and inflamed. It felt like a bruise. It lasted about 3 weeks.  It also became quite itchy over time.
I have seen a few more come down from the ceiling. Apparently they like walls and ceilings.
I am looking into how to get rid of them naturally, since I have a little dog and I don't want her to get sick.
Does anyone know of any natural ways to get rid of these? I heard natural oils like lavender mixed with water and sprayed can kill spiders, but what about yellow sac spiders?


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## Venom (Oct 8, 2016)

Terryy said:


> I was bitten by a yellow sac spider a month ago.  I was sitting on my couch downstairs watching TV when I saw it hanging from its thread just before it landed on my arm. I tried to swipe it away and it bit me. I caught the bugger and killed it. I saved it; researched it and it was definitely a yellow sac spider.
> The bite hurt and it felt like a tiny splinter when I touched it.  Within 24 hours it was swollen, inflamed and hard and then this ended up getting bigger and about 3 " across. It felt like a bruise. It lasted about 3 weeks.
> I have seen a few more come down from the ceiling. Apparently they like walls and ceilings.
> I am looking into how to get rid of them naturally, since I have a little dog and I don't want her to get sick.
> Does anyone know of any natural ways to get rid of these? I heard natural oils like lavender mixed with water and sprayed can kill spiders, but what about yellow sac spiders?



Excellent post! Can you please also post it in the Bite Reports section? We have a thread there for this species. This would be a great addition to our growing bite database on this species. Thanks!

As for keeping them out, the reason you saw it indoors was that these like to overwinter in homes, so they routinely start coming indoors in the fall when the weather turns cool. Yellow sac spiders are, as you've noticed, an arboreal species--they climb, and prefer to be above ground when they rest. They often build silk pouches (sacs) at the corner of the wall and ceiling. The best prevention method I've found (living in sac spider heaven, ugh) is to regularly scan the tops of my walls for sacs, and just mush them. I haven't succeeded in preventing them coming indoors, but killing them in their resting places can prevent bites when they wander around the home. 

Please do write the bite report, though. Accumulating data on Cheiracanthium venom is one of my pet projects.  Thanks!


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## Terryy (Oct 8, 2016)

Venom said:


> Excellent post! Can you please also post it in the Bite Reports section? We have a thread there for this species. This would be a great addition to our growing bite database on this species. Thanks!
> 
> As for keeping them out, the reason you saw it indoors was that these like to overwinter in homes, so they routinely start coming indoors in the fall when the weather turns cool. Yellow sac spiders are, as you've noticed, an arboreal species--they climb, and prefer to be above ground when they rest. They often build silk pouches (sacs) at the corner of the wall and ceiling. The best prevention method I've found (living in sac spider heaven, ugh) is to regularly scan the tops of my walls for sacs, and just mush them. I haven't succeeded in preventing them coming indoors, but killing them in their resting places can prevent bites when they wander around the home.
> 
> Please do write the bite report, though. Accumulating data on Cheiracanthium venom is one of my pet projects.  Thanks!


I just attempted to post there but was prevented from doing so. 
It said I have "insufficient privileges".


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## Terryy (Oct 8, 2016)

Venom said:


> Excellent post! Can you please also post it in the Bite Reports section? We have a thread there for this species. This would be a great addition to our growing bite database on this species. Thanks!
> 
> As for keeping them out, the reason you saw it indoors was that these like to overwinter in homes, so they routinely start coming indoors in the fall when the weather turns cool. Yellow sac spiders are, as you've noticed, an arboreal species--they climb, and prefer to be above ground when they rest. They often build silk pouches (sacs) at the corner of the wall and ceiling. The best prevention method I've found (living in sac spider heaven, ugh) is to regularly scan the tops of my walls for sacs, and just mush them. I haven't succeeded in preventing them coming indoors, but killing them in their resting places can prevent bites when they wander around the home.
> 
> Please do write the bite report, though. Accumulating data on Cheiracanthium venom is one of my pet projects.  Thanks!





Venom said:


> Excellent post! Can you please also post it in the Bite Reports section? We have a thread there for this species. This would be a great addition to our growing bite database on this species. Thanks!
> 
> As for keeping them out, the reason you saw it indoors was that these like to overwinter in homes, so they routinely start coming indoors in the fall when the weather turns cool. Yellow sac spiders are, as you've noticed, an arboreal species--they climb, and prefer to be above ground when they rest. They often build silk pouches (sacs) at the corner of the wall and ceiling. The best prevention method I've found (living in sac spider heaven, ugh) is to regularly scan the tops of my walls for sacs, and just mush them. I haven't succeeded in preventing them coming indoors, but killing them in their resting places can prevent bites when they wander around the home.
> 
> Please do write the bite report, though. Accumulating data on Cheiracanthium venom is one of my pet projects.  Thanks!


This is all new to me. So yellow sac spiders are venomous?  I live in Southern Ontario and I didn't know we even had such a thing as venomous spiders here. I just read somewhere that you should see a doctor if you are bitten by a yellow sac spider. Is that really necessary? Seems a little extreme.  
Now I'm paranoid and keep looking up, waiting for his brother or uncle to drop on me.  
I'll look for those sacs. Now I know what that sac under the mail box lid was. 
I have a 2 pound dog.  Should I worry about her?  I mean, if it made my arm swell and go hard for three weeks, what would it do to a 2 pound animal?


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## Venom (Oct 9, 2016)

Terryy said:


> I just attempted to post there but was prevented from doing so.
> It said I have "insufficient privileges".


If you write one and PM it to me, I'll post it for you. The last update of the forum changed a few things, and this "privileges" thing wasn't for the better. I'm sorry you weren't able to post your experiences--it's valuable information! This "feature" has been keeping more than one newer member from using all the aspects of this site in all its usefulness. Bah, humbug. 

And yes, Cheiracanthium (yellow sac spiders) are toxic. They have a cocktail of half a dozen mild to moderate cytotoxins--substances that dissolve cell membranes. The result is a milder version of what the brown recluse has become famous for: necrotic sores, lesions, and tissue damage. I can post more information for you tomorrow (tis late for me right now). Basically, they aren't super dangerous, but the bites are painful, sometimes blister and get infected, and usually involve tenderness, swelling, redness of the affected area, and quite a bit of pain for a bite from a small spider. They haven't been implicated in any truly serious envenomings, and have never caused a fatality. But, the bite can be painful and unpleasant, to be sure.

And yes, they definitely are in Ontario and southern Quebec, Michigan, and all the Great Lakes region.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Terryy (Oct 10, 2016)

Venom said:


> If you write one and PM it to me, I'll post it for you. The last update of the forum changed a few things, and this "privileges" thing wasn't for the better. I'm sorry you weren't able to post your experiences--it's valuable information! This "feature" has been keeping more than one newer member from using all the aspects of this site in all its usefulness. Bah, humbug.
> 
> Can you just copy and paste my updated post?  I'm new and don't know how to do otherwise


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## Tigrosa (Oct 10, 2016)

Yellow sac spiders are all over my house and yard, and this time of year they start coming inside. I tried to keep one a few weeks ago, but it never ate and randomly died. :/ does anyone keep them, or have any insight into their care?


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## Xenodamus (Oct 10, 2016)

A fairly simple small arboreal setup should suffice, with a small dish, or water dribbled down the side of the enclosure for hydration. Could it have been a MM perhaps Tigrosa?


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## Tigrosa (Oct 10, 2016)

That's basically how I kept it. It was a female, I'm fairly certain.


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## Xenodamus (Oct 11, 2016)

I've had the same thing happen on occasion with local WC spiders, I just chalk it up to stress.


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## Zukicat (May 28, 2020)

Smokehound714 said:


> I've read that nectar is actually pretty important to these spiders, and they'll spend considerable time looking for it.
> 
> There was a study that came to the conclusion that yellow sac spiders are healthier overall when given nectar, they become more fecund as well.
> 
> ...


Just tonight I found one feeding on an orange slice left on my table. It sat there for a while. I often find these little in my home, but never before saw one clearly taking in fruit juice. I did some research and found info on the same study that mentions nectar being so important to these spiders. Fascinating creatures.


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## Zukicat (May 28, 2020)

Smokehound714 said:


> I've read that nectar is actually pretty important to these spiders, and they'll spend considerable time looking for it.
> 
> There was a study that came to the conclusion that yellow sac spiders are healthier overall when given nectar, they become more fecund as well.
> 
> ...


Just tonight I found a yellow sac spider feeding on an orange slice left on my table. It sat there for a while. I often find these little in my home, but never before saw one clearly taking in fruit juice. I did some research and found info on the same study that mentions nectar being important to these spiders. Fascinating creatures.


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