# Introducing a new Ctenidae from Peru: Ctenidae spp. "Iquitos, Peru"



## Stefan2209 (Oct 8, 2007)

Hi,

something new from my side, literally.

I had every now and then mentioned that I got hold of a new species of Ctenidae by the end of last year. The species came in from the Amazon region of Peru, just one single adult female. The specimen is already pictured here in the boards in one (or two?) of my picture threads.

What I haven't mentioned here so far is that since I got hold of that specimen I got more and more fascinated about it as there are some rather strange things with this creepy:

The spider is quite large and massive, measuring some 4cm (1,6”) body length and approx. 10cm (4”) leg span.
The whole built of the spider reminds me of Ancylometes. However, this spider is coloured in velvet black without any markings. This is rather untypical for what I'm used from Ancylometes.

Keeping of the adult specimen proofed to be quite easy, just some enclosure with peat moss, that needs to be kept quite humid that´s all to keep her happy.
Apparently the lady was doing quite ok with this as she was an aggressive feeder from the start on.

I quickly had to realize that there were more aspects within the behaviour of this spider that reminded one of Ancylometes:
Like the giant – fishers and in contrast to next to all other Ctenids apparently this species can´t climb smooth surfaces too well. 
After some weeks in my care the spider built me a sac. Unfortunately I wasn´t at home at that time so I couldn't take proper care about that, I just realized it when I came home from Peru. The sac was noteworthy as it had a paper – like outer appearance like I'm used to from Ancylometes.

With that genus such sacs are constructed as these spiders show a quite unique behaviour of breeding care: they press their sacs with their bodies below the water surface to enhance climatic conditions within the sac for hatching.
The strange hull makes their sacs water resistant.

Now I had this strange spider constructing a sac in exactly that very same style. Interesting.

Unfortunately the sac got abandoned one week after I was back. I fed the lady as much as she wanted to eat and some weeks after that I was rewarded with a second sac, damn had I high hopes!
I supplied the lady now with a water bowel and could witness on the very same evening how the spider used the water to drown her sac. Everything seemed pretty fine.
For exactly 28 days. Ancylometes sacs usually take something from 28 – 30 days to hatch, so I expected something similar from this species.
From the second week on I could observe a constant growth of the sac.

At the 28th day the lady chose again to drop her sac. I was devastated.
I got the sac out and carefully cut it open: some 200 dried out eggs, but some 50 – 70 more that had apparently developed and would need just one more moult inside the sac to hatch.
And: damn, those things were still alive, I could notice weak movements.

I rescued all living creepies and tried to incubate them artificially. Unfortunately to no avail: five days later everything was dead. 
Believe me, I was just angry as hell.

I have bred and raised next to any Ctenidae I could just get hold of: different Phoneutria, four different Ancylometes, a bunch of smaller, unidentified Ctenidae and now this.
I had also unintentionally reproduced some species, now I was confronted with a species that I just wanted to reproduce and even though I did all I could everything failed. What a ******* mess!

Guess what: some weeks later I was given a third sac. I have to admit that I was still crushed so I didn't pay too much attention.
And I was right to do so, just three days after the spider had built the sac she devoured it already again. I wasn´t pleased with this but wasn´t surprised either, what else to expect.

Through some deaths in my breeding stock and general changes in specimens, I decided I'd just rehouse that spider. Not to start another attempt for reproduction but more to be able to better observe this particular specimen. I had lost all hopes for offspring so it seemed important to me to at least get to know as much as possible out of this single female.

Set her just up in an other tank with the same setup and same climatic conditions. Nothing fancy, no big deal.

Of course I was still pretty interested in this strange spider as I was (and am) still wondering about what I was dealing with here.
Literally EVERYTHING just looks like it´d be Ancylometes, however, some other things just don't fit. Weird. Weird, BUT: nevertheless, very interesting.

Through a friend of mine whom I had sent pics of that specimen I was pointed to the homepage of a German museum where a picture of an adult female of Ctenus villasboasi was shown. That spider just looked like mine.
I dug for infos about that species but couldn't come up with much. At least that few bits I found fitted in with what I was observing here. Should this be the species I was keeping?

Some time later I got in touch with Peruvian Ctenidae specialist Diana Silva.
I told Diana about that strange spider I got from Peru and she could tell me some things about the species in question.
However, even with that infos I could neither fix that species ID nor could I rule it out.

By September I was built a fourth sac of that spider. Honestly, I was really embarrassed about that: I'm really into things like zynism, sarcasm and so on but too much is just too much. All that futile hopes…
I just told my lady to **** off and didn't care anymore about that as I already knew what would come out of that.

At the very same time I got in touch with that scientist who had taken the pics of that mentioned Ct. villasboasi.
This was a gain: as I was told Ct. villasboasi has indeed no ABDOMINAL patterns or markings, BUT very conspicuous markings at the ventral side.
Well, my specimen is lacking such, so I guess this idea can just be ruled out. 
Back to scratch: what is this?

Three weeks after the sac got constructed I have to admit I started to get curious again, as the sac not only was still there but I could also observe some growing…
I didn't hang my hopes too high but peaked every other day into that enclosure.

Week 4 came and went without anything hatching, my hopes were declining again. Well, I had known this in advance, what else to expect.
In week 5 I finally found what I had waited for, some day I got up and found the sac abandoned. No surprise. Not what I had wished for, but…

I should have turned on the lights earlier, I had noticed instantly when I entered the room that the sac was dropped, what I just realized when I turned the lights on was: heck, the sac had hatched!

No big deal, but well enough for a fourth sac: approx. some 70 – 100 offspring! Boy, was I happy! 

Now here´s finally the chance to learn some more about this species: maybe adult males will show some markings that will give a clue to at least with what genus I'm dealing here?
Who knows, but finally here´s at least the chance to find out.

Gave away some slings to other breeders who “know what they´re doing” and separated some 35 specimen for my own breeding stem.

This is exactly four weeks ago. As mentioned, I have reproduced a whole bunch of different Ctenidae species out of different genera this year, some proofed to be quite easy to raise, some were rather difficult, some had sky high mortality rates, some other not.
You´ll never know what you´ll get with such.

Well, by now the least I can say is until now everything works much better than I had dared to hope for:

I set up the specimen five days after they had hatched in small plastic boxes, some 7cm (3”) wide and 5cm (2”) high. I perforated the lid of the boxes to enable air flow.
As substrate I use 1cm of peat moss that I keep constantly moist, so that humidity is around 90% (max) – 70% (min).

Temperature is approx. 23 – 24°C for daytime hours and down to 20°C for nighttime.

I do maintenance work just one time per week, not more. As prey I use micro – crickets which work already quite well even for fresh hatched slings as long as one just picks out the smallest micro´s.
Per feeding I usually give just one or two crickets to each specimen, depending on how fat the individual specimen already is.

Some things are noteworthy:
After two weeks I got really concerned when I started to do maintenance, as I couldn't find any spider. It's not usual to have some mortality with fresh hatched Ctenids, with some species a bit more, with some other a bit less.
However, a complete loss of a whole species is very, very rare. I was really worried, every box I checked was just empty.

I finally dug through that peat moss without much hope, but, HEY, look at this, the small fellows hid in the substrate!
I just flooded the other boxes and after some seconds there was a spider popping up in each single box!
Apparently this species likes to dig when they are young. I have never seen such a pronounced behaviour in any other Ctenid I have raised.
Even the mother showed never the slightest interest in burrowing.
Interesting.

Without much surprise I could furthermore witness the slings to show some markings that resemble the markings that can be found in fresh hatched offspring of some Ancylometes species.

The last maintenance cycle yielded a nice surprise: just today, four weeks after the slings hatched, I have exactly two losses out of 35. This is a very good start. I really hope it´ll stay this way. There will be some more deaths I guess (out of mere experience), but the worst stage is already passed, the slings are now in second instar and are active and voracious.
What more can one ask for with a completely new species.

I´ll continue to document the development of this species every now and then as news happen.

Finally, some pics of what I talk here:

Rearing enclosure of *Ctenidae spp. “Iquitos, Peru”*, cb 2. instar






*Ctenidae spp. "Iquitos, Peru"*, cb, 2. instar






Still tiny, however, killing and feeding already works as smooth as in adult specimen  

*Ctenidae spp. "Iquitos, Peru"*, cb, 2. instar, snacking on a micro - cricket






*Ctenidae spp. "Iquitos, Peru"*, adult wc female, "Mom"






*Ctenidae spp. "Iquitos, Peru"*, adult wc female, "Mom" with sac






To be continued...

Greetings,

Stefan

Reactions: Like 1


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## beetleman (Oct 8, 2007)

:clap: wow! very impressive,thanks for sharing


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## Steven (Oct 8, 2007)

Now THAT's a really NICE looking Ctenid :drool: 
just love the velvet look

very interesting read too Stefan 


hopefully we'll see next generations in this tread someday


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## Stylopidae (Oct 8, 2007)

I just love that very subtle hint of purple.


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## Malhavoc's (Oct 9, 2007)

Stef, keep us posted on the offspring, I am now thuroughly entailed to see if you can get a proper genus ID, I have no experience in this family and can render no help, but I know of no one better then you to be working on it-Besides nothing like a fresh challange?


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## Galapoheros (Oct 10, 2007)

Wow!  Thanks, that was interesting.


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## UrbanJungles (Oct 10, 2007)

Thank you so much for sharing.  It is inspirational to see you get some results after repeated disappointment.  Good info and story!

Good luck, and please do keep this thread updated!
:clap:


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## syndicate (Oct 10, 2007)

congrats Stefan!beautiful species and interesting habits!
thanks for sharing
-chris


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## Stefan2209 (Oct 11, 2007)

Malhavoc's said:


> Stef, keep us posted on the offspring, I am now thuroughly entailed to see if you can get a proper genus ID, I have no experience in this family and can render no help, but I know of no one better then you to be working on it-Besides nothing like a fresh challange?


Hi there,

my pleasure.

By now this may be, under strictly "scientifically" aspects (by emotions nothing beats Phoneutria to my opinion), the most interesting species i take care of.

I´ll definitely try to get hold of a genus ID, possibly even for a species ID, but by now i have no doubts that this will be hard.
Some Ctenidae spp.,  even of the rather "well known" genera are just extremely hard to ID.

With this certain specimen i still have to find someone who even dares as much as to throw a guess in regard of the genus in and believe me, i have communicated this to quite some very experienced pro´s in this field.

We´ll see. By now the most important fact to me is that the slings are doing ok. Maybe i´ll already be able to say more after i´ve once seen a male of this species... 

Greetings,

Stefan


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## Stefan2209 (Nov 4, 2007)

Hi there,

as time goes on, so does the development of the shown slings.

Already some time ago first specimens moulted to 3. instar. Had some more losses, especially due to an absence from home, but nothing serious here - the biggest part of the batch is still alive and kicking.

The last moult was quite satisfying under two aspects: the growth was noteworthy and definitely a bigger jump than from 1. to 2. instar.
Furthermore some minor but welcome changes in behaviour can be noted: the slings aren´t that reclusive anymore and they are apparently much more voracious than before. Prey now gets actively stalked and usually killed after just some seconds after it has been inserted into the enclosure.

The mother of my slings gets me thinking, though: even after being some 10 months in captive care by now (remember: the specimen was already adult when she came in) and after constructing four sacs, she´s still pretty active and voracious as she was at her first day...
Wonder, if she´ll possibly build me a fifth sac...

Note the colour of the fresh moulted sling  :worship: 

*Ctenidae spp. "Iquitos", 3. instar*



















Greetings,

Stefan

Reactions: Like 1


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## syndicate (Nov 4, 2007)

nice shots.i wonder what a male will look like?


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## ranchulas (Nov 4, 2007)

Awesome read!! Thanks and keep us informed!


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## Stefan2209 (Nov 30, 2007)

syndicate said:


> nice shots.i wonder what a male will look like?


Hi,

me too.

Time will tell....    

Picture update soon...

Greetings,

Stefan


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## bistrobob85 (Nov 30, 2007)

That's very nice, Stefan!!!! The mom is quite an impressive looking spider!!!! It's been a while since i've posted in this section but everytime i come and have a look, you're always up to something very nice. Good job . 

 phil.


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## Stefan2209 (Dec 25, 2007)

Merry X-Mas,

bear with me, i dare to skip one instar and will continue this with an update of the 5. instar:

*Ctenidae spp. "Iquitos"*, cb, 5. instar











One shot for size reference...






Have to admit that while i type this the post is already outdated again as the first specimen is by now since over a week in 6. instar...  

Greetings,

Stefan


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## froggyman (Dec 26, 2007)

what do you keep the humidity at?


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## Stefan2209 (Dec 26, 2007)

froggyman said:


> what do you keep the humidity at?


Something like 60 - 80%.


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## Stefan2209 (Feb 17, 2008)

Olá,

time to blow the dust from this one...

Started to feel a lil bad about not taking more pics of my lilttle darlings for quite some time so i decided to just change that and grabbed my little "model" which i use for this documentary and produced some new shots.

I always use the very same specimen to have a detailed comparison of development through the pics.

When i took a closer look at the little bugger i thought he might as well molt anytime soon as he hasn´t since quite some time. To ease the snapping of pics i tried to offer him some prey which was instantly accepted even he seemed well fed to me before.
So he (or she?) had apparently a different opinion about that molting topic.

Well, be it, that´s what you get from caring about such creepies.

My model shown here is approx. two molts ahead of his siblings. However, even his smaller brothers and sisters have changed behaviour over the last months and aren´t too much into digging and hiding away anymore when it comes to doing maintenance.
Their newest "sport" when the human comes knocking is just making a run and trying to get a peek into "how the human lives".
Endless hours of "fun" to try to add water and prey to the small enclosures and at the same time making sure no one of the small fellows is escaping.  

With the shown one, this was an easy task as he was really occupied with subduing that cricket.  

*Ctenidae spp. "Iquitos, Peru"*, cb, 6. instar
















This morning yielded a surprise, though, apparently the little guy has somehow heard my thoughts and decided to molt over the last night, which now makes him 7. instar.

More to come.

Regards,

Stefan

Reactions: Like 2


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## ReignofInvertebrates (Mar 29, 2016)

It's been a good eight years LOL.  I'm just intrigued so much by this family of spiders, did you manage to get a breeding stem going?


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## Stefan2209 (Apr 19, 2016)

Grasshopper99 said:


> It's been a good eight years LOL.  I'm just intrigued so much by this family of spiders, did you manage to get a breeding stem going?


Darn, this one is really old.

No, I didn't. And I even didn't try seriously, to be honest.

Gave lots of the breed away for free to some knowledgeable hobbyists, who I trusted. Unfortunately none of them had success.

Kept a few for myself, but they died after i moved to a new flat and the climate in the new spider room didn't do them well fast enough.

The adult imported female that gave birth to the clutch was given to a rather well known museum here in Germany. Well known, that is, in regard of research on Ctenidae.
C. villasboasi was ruled out as a possible ID - the specimen i handed over was WAY too large, i was told, to be C. villasboasi.
Left several slings at the museum also.

Never asked, what became out of them, never asked, if the dead adult female had been positively taxonomically identified.

Gave ONE single specimen to a young biologist i once knew.

Heard back from her about a year later: she showed me a picture of a Ctenidae and asked me, if I'd ever seen something like that - I told her no.
She asked me, what I'd think it'd be, I told her definitely a adult Ancylometes male to my opinion and experience.

She told me, that was what had become out of the singly lonely sling i had given her.

She's by now well connected with the museum that got hold of the other "material". - It's in good hands there.

The species, whatever it is, doesn't seem to be too rare in Peru, though. I got contacted in regard of this post by another AB-member who had travelled Peru and found dozens of specimens of the pictured species. He even sent me pics.

Several years later, this species resurfaced in the german pet-trade, as i learned later. They got sold as Ancylometes spec. black. Seems that it was reproduced or even bred for a certain time frame, but by now it seems already long since gone again.

Not much more to tell about them, unfortunately.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## Crone Returns (Apr 22, 2016)

Stefan2209 said:


> Hi,
> 
> something new from my side, literally.
> 
> ...


Your work is fascinating. Have you published any papers on this and Phoen. spp?  I a very green newbie, but this is really cool stuff!  Thanks.


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## Crone Returns (Apr 22, 2016)

Stefan2209 said:


> Darn, this one is really old.
> 
> No, I didn't. And I even didn't try seriously, to be honest.
> 
> ...


Maybe they just don't do well in captivity?  Something missing from the new environment?


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