# A few questions on Egg sac care



## BobGrill (Apr 3, 2016)

Hey everyone. Well as a keeper who is still pretty new to breeding, I had a few questions I wanted to ask some of the more experienced members here. See the first successful sac was actually a rather unexpected success, as I really didn't have much of an idea of what I was doing when it came to care/incubation for the sac itself. It was from a P.cambridgei and I had pulled the sac after about 30 or so days and just hatched them that way. However I have had some problems in the past when it comes to mites, which I'm guessing was probably a result of keeping the sac in that case too moist perhaps and not providing adequate ventilation in the deli cup that I was using as an incubator? I know that some say it is often better to keep the terrarium a bit more moist for certain species while the sac is in there, that way it doesn't desiccate, however I was just curious as to what your thoughts/opinions on this matter were, if any of that is even as important as some make it out to be. I know more ventilation would help when it comes to deterring mold growth, but I'm not so sure about mites. The two species that apply to this particular instance are P.irminia and P.ornata. Another thing I wanted to ask is for those of you who prefer to keep the sac with the mother until they hatch (often times what I like to do),  do you like to separate the slings while they are 1st instars? I ask mostly because I realize that the slings can easily slip through the ventilation holes in the enclosures, and I would really hate for that to happen, especially if I was at work or something when this occurred. Thanks for all your patience and assistance.


----------



## louise f (Apr 3, 2016)

This is an succesful breeding of P.cambridgei.
This is how i incubate them. I rehouse the slings when they are 1 molt, not before.

Reactions: Like 4


----------



## gottarantulas (Apr 3, 2016)

I always leave sacs with the mom and let nature take its course. I separate the slings at 2nd instar.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## BobGrill (Apr 3, 2016)

gottarantulas said:


> I always leave sacs with the mom and let nature take its course. I separate the slings at 2nd instar.


I agree that's definitely the best way to do it, my main concern is like I said having slings escape through the ventilation holes I have drilled into the sides.


----------



## louise f (Apr 4, 2016)

Make some smaller holes, that helps

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Haksilence (Apr 4, 2016)

There is good reason for both side of that discussion, and both make sense. But IMO it just seems like pulling the sac is safer, you can more easily regulate the temperature and humidity, keep the mother from eating them, and keep better track of numbers and groth progress.

Reactions: Agree 3


----------



## BobGrill (Apr 4, 2016)

louise f said:


> Make some smaller holes, that helps


Sadly that won't really help for this one, since I'm referring to the holes that are already drilled into the gravid females's enclosure.


----------



## louise f (Apr 4, 2016)

I would have taken the eggsac then.


----------



## ErinM31 (Apr 4, 2016)

BobGrill said:


> I agree that's definitely the best way to do it, my main concern is like I said having slings escape through the ventilation holes I have drilled into the sides.


Could you adhere pieces of mesh/fabric over the holes? I am a newb, but my plan, once I have a successful mating and eggsac, is to leave the eggs with the mom and separate the slings at first or second instar. I imagine they could easily slip through the ventilation of the Exo Terra enclosure I have her in, so I plan to secure cloth or screen (I need to look up just HOW small the slings are!) over the ventilation slots from the inside.


----------



## 8Legs8Eyes (Apr 4, 2016)

I would be interested in seeing some more replies on this. I like the idea of letting the mother care for her young, but most of the reading or videos I have seen have involved people taking the sacs out before the young were still eggs with legs or younger, with the exception of M. balfouri. I'm still early on in my first breeding attempt (no dropped sac yet) but I am very open to the various ways of handling the situation.


----------



## Haksilence (Apr 4, 2016)

The thing with that is that there is no guarantee the mother will care for the young and its a gamble on wether she will eat the sac/eggs/spiderlings. 
So it's a nice thought, and it makes us feel good letting mom be a mommy, but spiders don't work the same way as humans. It's just safer for the slings if it's pulled. 

At least that's my understanding


----------



## Sana (Apr 4, 2016)

I haven't worked with my first sac yet, though I'm hoping to complete my first pairing this month as long as my female is receptive.  I originally thought that it would be more foolproof to leave the sac with mom the hatch.  After some thought though, it seems like my worst nightmare to try to separate (hopefully) several hundred slings out of an enclosure that is set up to be a tarantula's favorite place to hide with a potentially crabby mom in the equation.  Getting one egg sac away from her seems a lot simpler then hundreds of tiny spiders with minds of their own.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## Haksilence (Apr 4, 2016)

Sana said:


> I haven't worked with my first sac yet, though I'm hoping to complete my first pairing this month as long as my female is receptive.  I originally thought that it would be more foolproof to leave the sac with mom the hatch.  After some thought though, it seems like my worst nightmare to try to separate (hopefully) several hundred slings out of an enclosure that is set up to be a tarantula's favorite place to hide with a potentially crabby mom in the equation.  Getting one egg sac away from her seems a lot simpler then hundreds of tiny spiders with minds of their own.


Could you imagine leaving LP slings with the mom? There would be enough to cover every inch of the sub

Reactions: Funny 3 | Clarification Please 1


----------



## 8Legs8Eyes (Apr 4, 2016)

Haksilence said:


> Could you imagine leaving LP slings with the mom? There would be enough to cover every inch of the sub


Oh my god...
I don't even want to imagine the headache this would be.


----------



## Haksilence (Apr 4, 2016)

Haksilence said:


> Could you imagine leaving LP slings with the mom? There would be enough to cover every inch of the sub


Aparently clarification was needed? 

Lasyodora parahybana have 2000+ eggs to a sac in some cases. Meaning there is a lot of slings


----------



## shawno821 (Apr 4, 2016)

I pull the sac on day 1,put it in a mechanical mom for xx days depending on species,and try to open them at 1st instar.I separate them at 2nd instar.This has worked for the last 3 sacs for me 100%.My 4 sacs before the mechanical mom,had 1 dessicate,2 got eaten,and 1 molded over.I'm never going back to leaving them with the mom.And I'm not talking about that dumb a$$ mecha mom in the TKG,either.I've improved upon that design greatly,and it now costs around $10-$20 to build my version.


----------



## 8Legs8Eyes (Apr 4, 2016)

Haksilence said:


> Aparently clarification was needed?
> 
> Lasyodora parahybana have 2000+ eggs to a sac in some cases. Meaning there is a lot of slings


I don't think anyone needed clarification? I just said I wouldn't even want to think about how much work that would be. I think their egg sac sizes are pretty well known.


----------



## Sana (Apr 4, 2016)

I'm not sure that I want to go as far as a mechanical mom.  I'm intending to leave my first sac (assuming that I get one) with mom for 30 days and then pull it.  I keep reading that most get EWLs around 30 days.  Do slings hatch from the egg sac at first instar?  I would think that pulling the sac as close to then as possible would be preferable.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## 8Legs8Eyes (Apr 4, 2016)

Sana said:


> I'm not sure that I want to go as far as a mechanical mom.  I'm intending to leave my first sac (assuming that I get one) with mom for 30 days and then pull it.  I keep reading that most get EWLs around 30 days.  Do slings hatch from the egg sac at first instar?  I would think that pulling the sac as close to then as possible would be preferable.


I believe they start as eggs with legs and then hatch into first instar.

Might have misread you, thinking you may have been asking at what stage they break out, not what they first molt as. As for that I am not sure if is at first instar or later.


----------



## Sana (Apr 4, 2016)

8Legs8Eyes said:


> Might have misread you, thinking you may have been asking at what stage they break out, not what they first molt as. As for that I am not sure if is at first instar or later.


Yeah I was looking for what stage they break out of the egg sac on their own.


----------



## 8Legs8Eyes (Apr 4, 2016)

Sana said:


> Yeah I was looking for what stage they break out of the egg sac on their own.


Yeah, realized that as soon as I typed the first response, sorry. I'll let someone who has actually had some sacs get you a response.

Have you already mated your first pair? I like hearing about other people's breeding projects. If not, what are you considering?


----------



## shawno821 (Apr 4, 2016)

I try to pull at first instar,which was 40 days for G.pulchripes,and 45 for X.immanis,in the mecha mom.Then when they molt to 2i,I separate them. I'm unsure whether they cut their way out of an eggsac at some point,or if mom cuts them out,someone who has bred M.balfouri could probably speak better to that.


----------



## Sana (Apr 4, 2016)

8Legs8Eyes said:


> Yeah, realized that as soon as I typed the first response, sorry. I'll let someone who has actually had some sacs get you a response.
> 
> Have you already mated your first pair? I like hearing about other people's breeding projects. If not, what are you considering?


I haven't done my first pairing yet.  My MF G. pulchripes should arrive tomorrow and my male matured recently.  Figuring on time to settle into her new house and feed her heavily I'm hoping to attempt pairing the end of this month or beginning or next.  I'm trying to learn all the little details now.  I have general knowledge of pairing through 2i but there are specific questions on smaller details that are occurring to me now that I'm actually taking the first steps. One of those details being whether a female always drums when she wants to pair or if females that haven't drummed have been receptive to pairing?



shawno821 said:


> I try to pull at first instar,which was 40 days for G.pulchripes,and 45 for X.immanis,in the mecha mom.Then when they molt to 2i,I separate them. I'm unsure whether they cut their way out of an eggsac at some point,or if mom cuts them out,someone who has bred M.balfouri could probably speak better to that.


Thanks.  That was super helpful.  If things go well and I get to an egg sac I'm going to aim for 35-40 days to pull the sac.


----------



## 8Legs8Eyes (Apr 4, 2016)

Sana said:


> I haven't done my first pairing yet.  My MF G. pulchripes should arrive tomorrow and my male matured recently.  Figuring on time to settle into her new house and feed her heavily I'm hoping to attempt pairing the end of this month or beginning or next.


I wish you luck!


----------



## BobGrill (Apr 4, 2016)

louise f said:


> I would have taken the eggsac then.


I don't think we're on the same page. See she hasn't actually dropped a sac just yet, but she is most definitely gravid. I really don't want to move her into a different enclosure at this point, I feel that would not be the wisest decision.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## louise f (Apr 5, 2016)

BobGrill said:


> I don't think we're on the same page. See she hasn't actually dropped a sac just yet, but she is most definitely gravid. I really don't want to move her into a different enclosure at this point, I feel that would not be the wisest decision.


Yeah i know she hasn`t dropped a sac  but then i shall spell it out in paper for you, i mean ( When and if she does lay a sac i would have taken it ) Do you understand me now ?? I am just trying to help you.
+ that arrogance of yours does not help you anywhere.


----------



## Austin S. (Apr 5, 2016)

BobGrill said:


> I don't think we're on the same page. See she hasn't actually dropped a sac just yet, but she is most definitely gravid. I really don't want to move her into a different enclosure at this point, I feel that would not be the wisest decision.


You would be surprised actually.
Every sac I have produced so far, the female was rehoused 2-3 weeks prior to dropping the sac.
Sometimes, changing the environment triggers something. It has worked every time for me. T. stirmi, GBBS, various avics, Poecilotherias, Brachys, balfouris, H pulchripes, etc. All are always re housed once I see them gaining weight.

Every species besides baboons, I pull the sac on day 25. By that time, most if not all are ewls. I put them into the coffee filter, inside a deli cup, inside one of my incubators (small tubberware container with holes in the side, several folded up paper towels layered at the bottom, and full 1/4" of water.) It keeps the temps a stable 82 with humidity at 75-85%. Once they molt into 1i, I take the coffee filter out, put substrate in the deli cup, and put the 1is on it. I mist the deli lightly, and put it back into the incubator.

Reactions: Like 2 | Award 1


----------



## BobGrill (Apr 10, 2016)

Austin S. said:


> You would be surprised actually.
> Every sac I have produced so far, the female was rehoused 2-3 weeks prior to dropping the sac.
> Sometimes, changing the environment triggers something. It has worked every time for me. T. stirmi, GBBS, various avics, Poecilotherias, Brachys, balfouris, H pulchripes, etc. All are always re housed once I see them gaining weight.
> 
> Every species besides baboons, I pull the sac on day 25. By that time, most if not all are ewls. I put them into the coffee filter, inside a deli cup, inside one of my incubators (small tubberware container with holes in the side, several folded up paper towels layered at the bottom, and full 1/4" of water.) It keeps the temps a stable 82 with humidity at 75-85%. Once they molt into 1i, I take the coffee filter out, put substrate in the deli cup, and put the 1is on it. I mist the deli lightly, and put it back into the incubator.


I will definitely try this. So upon doing further research it seems like a lot of breeders like to leave the first phase up to the mother, which usually means leaving the sac with her for the first 25-30 days, and then do the rest using the artificial incubator? So what do you do as far as ventilation in the incubator goes? Your method sounds quite promising. Thanks for the help.


----------



## Austin S. (Apr 11, 2016)

BobGrill said:


> I will definitely try this. So upon doing further research it seems like a lot of breeders like to leave the first phase up to the mother, which usually means leaving the sac with her for the first 25-30 days, and then do the rest using the artificial incubator? So what do you do as far as ventilation in the incubator goes? Your method sounds quite promising. Thanks for the help.


You might want to take a look at this thread:
http://arachnoboards.com/threads/learning-to-build-an-incubator.282036/

A lot of good explanations/examples.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Chromka 123 (Feb 16, 2019)

When is the best time to pull the egg sac? Because my Hapalopus sp. Colombia large made an egg sac yesterday.


----------



## cold blood (Feb 16, 2019)

BobGrill said:


> research it seems like a lot of breeders like to leave the first phase up to the mother, which usually means leaving the sac with her for the first 25-30 days, a


your answer was given above

Reactions: Agree 1


----------

