# The Perfect Food For T's



## Travis K (Oct 28, 2007)

I have experimented with basicly 3 types of food for my T's and other pets, and want to share my thoughts and get yours as well.

First off I started by feeding crickets to some scorps I had. they worked fine until my scorps got mites form the crickets and died.  Later i Had some leopard geckos and used crickets and it was OK.  The down side to the crickets in my opinion was the smell and frailty of them, and i really hated the cricket songs they would play for my wile i was tring to sleep!

So after that i decided to go with Meal Worms.  My geckos loved them and they didn't have the same problems as the crickets, So i decided to breed them for feeders.  What i found out is they breed rather slowly and when you got a lot they really smell like amonnia.  And even when i had a lot of them they would run out quickly, and i was purchasing more from the petshop.

When i got into T's i ended up going back to crickets, and remembered all the reasons i didn't like them, and I had soo much money invested into my T's that i was not going to risk another parasite epidemic.  So i started looking into other food sources and came accross roaches.  Once i Knew about roaches i looked into which species was going to be right for me, and decided on Blaptica Dubia.

When i got my new roach colony up and running, me, my T's, and the geckos loved them so much I gave away all the meal Worms and stopped buying crickets.  It was the best thing i ever did for my pets, and for me!

From what I have read Roaches are way more nutrious than crickets, and with a large colony you can feed every thing from tiny Slings to BIG Monsterous T's.  I chose B. Dubia because they can't climb smooth surfaces, cant fly, the adults are super easy to sex, and they reproduce easily and at a fast pace.


THIS IS HOW I KEEP MY ROACH COLONY:

-I went and purchased a 32gal plastic tub
-bought another heat mat
-cut an openig in the lid for vent, and used my sodder gun and melted a peice of screen onto the lid, you could just use silicon to adhere the screen as well
-stick the heat mat under the tub, you may need to cut a path for the cord, if the tub has support edges that get it the way
-place a number of egg cartons or crates for hiding
-and make sure to leave room for a feeding tray, i use a terra cotta pot holder.  This helps keep the tub clean and prevent molding.

some people use bedding of different sorts however i do not.  I find it easier and CLEANER to just let them produce waste for bedding.  The nymphs acutually get good stuff out of it.  And if you are doing a cleaning, it is much easier with out bedding.  FYI, you need not clean the colony hardly ever if you feed them right.

Their waste acutually smells kind of good to me, and like i said is benificial to the nymphs.  The only problem you will have with cleanliness is if you feed them too much moist foods.  Never put in so much Moist food that they cant eat it in under 24 hrs.  Their moist veggi food is simply left over table scraps or the peices we dont use for cooking.  I throw in hand fulls of Dry Cat Food too, and they eat it up quick, that way they get some protien too.  If you keep the moisture levels under control you wont have to cleen the colony but maybe once every 6-24 months, it just depends on how big a tank/tub you have for them.

They say they can reach adulthood after 3 months, but Like T's a lot of it depends on temp and food.  I saw a female with 17 fresh nymphs this morning, and if you give them time you will have very large numbers to use for feeding your T's.  I only feed my T's adult male Dubias, this is to ensure maximum groth of the colony.  I want the females making more food for my spiders.

So in a nut shell, I believe B. Dubias are the Perfect Food Source for me to feed to my T's. I absolutly love them.  If you have a Dubia colony or any other type of roach colony at home for your T's please let me know how you keep them.  Also if you have some other type of food source that you raise at home, please let us all know about it, and how well it works for you.

Here are pics of how i house the Dubia colony


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## cristal7901 (Oct 28, 2007)

ok cool this set up looks easy to make


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## Okitasoshi (Oct 28, 2007)

I also have a dubia colony, and find that at first they ate them like crazy but then after a while most of my roaches started ignoring them. cause they'll play dead and it makes it tough for the tarantula to get them. that's the only problems I've had. some like them some don't.


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## Travis K (Oct 28, 2007)

*smart roaches*

yeah i have witnessed some "smart" roaches.  Thats when i get the pencil out and scare them into the Tarantula's direction:evil:


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## AubZ (Oct 28, 2007)

That is some great info.  I have been wanting to get a colony of B dubia for quite some time to add variety to my T's diet.   However, I just cannot find them here by me.  I have been using crics since I started and the chirping doesn't worry me at all.   I only get chirping from the 3/4 and adults.   I have managed to keep my adults & 3/4 alive for up to a month.   The smell is pretty bad, but the love for my T's cancels it.   I rather just buy crics as I'm not up to starting a colony of crics as I don't have enough T's to justify that.
I am now starting a colony of mealworms and superworms.   They are pretty easy and low maintenence.   At first my T's were not keen on the worms and I did not like cutting them up.   But last week I bought some and most were baby worms and my T's just ate them right up.  Only prob with worms is that you have to make sure the T eats them straight away or squish the head.

You have got yourself a very good setup going there.


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## Cockroach_PL (Oct 28, 2007)

Yeah, that's right. IMO B. dubia are the best. Easy, relatively clean (don't smell), not flying and quickly reproducing. I'd recommend them to anyone who would like to start new roaches colony


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## tarsier (Oct 28, 2007)

Great post.   

I'm also moving from crickets to B.dubias (my colony started breeding yay!) after reading so many good things about them vis-a-vis other feeders.  Still dependent on crickets til Im sure I have the numbers to keep the roach colony going though.


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## Qvarnold (Oct 28, 2007)

I too got a colony of _B. dubia_. I keep mine in a large container with lots of boxes, egg cartons, etc. for hiding.
I mostly feed mine whatever I eat for dinner/breakfast, although I avoid giving them animal protein such as meat, cheese, and so on. Don't know why but it feels wierd giving them such.
My T's love them roaches, especially my _B. albopilosum_.

Although I don't have any arboreals except for _P. regalis_, which I feed crickets, I'm considering getting some more pokies. Anyone using mainly _B. dubia_ for arboreals, if so, how is it?
From first hand experience _B. dubia_ move very careful, and they can't climb glass so I can't imagine them being that good arboreal feeders.


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## Travis K (Oct 28, 2007)

*That's a good questions about aboreals*

I have seen B. Dubia climb stuff to aviod Ts, but i don't have any aboreal Ts.  have you tried them with your aboreals, is it something they aren't quite into?

Any other Bred at Home Feeders we should all know about?


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## PhormictopusMan (Oct 28, 2007)

I have heard for a long time that roaches are the way to go, but I have never had the nerve to start a colony.  I can hardly stand the crickets.  Is there a danger that escapees could get established?  

Very cool demo btw.

--Chris


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## Travis K (Oct 28, 2007)

*escape*

I have had a few get out, from the kids playing with them, LOL.  BUt, in order for this Tropical Species to bred you need higher temps from what i understand.  And in my opinion if you were to breed crickets at home you would have a lot HIGHER risk of having them all over your house then you would Dubias.  They are realy easy to keep!


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## omni (Oct 28, 2007)

Nice setup.. I recently switched to B. lateralis from crix after a long time when I accidentally killed my whole colony(don't ask )
The T's love 'em but they're harder to round up being somewhat smarter and faster than crickets. 
Right now I'm using two small tubs 14x9x12". What's the size of a 32gal tub?


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## PhormictopusMan (Oct 28, 2007)

Cool, thanks.  Yeah I haven't started a cricket colony either, but have used store-bought.  I am considering the roaches though--I have been feeding my blondi fuzzies for years and am thinking I should get her on inverts.  She has a real hard time with the crickets as they are fairly small and she has a hard time grabbing them all without them escaping from her clutches.

I used to work in a movie theater that was infested with roaches so I guess I have become a roachaphobe.  Maybe I should handle some roaches to get past that fear.   Its good to know that they wont establish because of the climate.

--C


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## Tunedbeat (Oct 28, 2007)

B.dubia doesn't actually go well with arboreal Ts, giving enough substrate they will burrow as deep as possible.  I prefer B.discoidalis, as more of my T's will actually take these.


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## The_Thunderer (Oct 28, 2007)

Travis K said:


> I have had a few get out, from the kids playing with them, LOL.  BUt, in order for this Tropical Species to bred you need higher temps from what i understand.  And in my opinion if you were to breed crickets at home you would have a lot HIGHER risk of having them all over your house then you would Dubias.  They are realy easy to keep!


Boy, isn't THIS true.  I had a colony of crickets for a while... and quite that when I found some running around the bathroom in the middle of the night.  I could tell that they weren't the "local" kind of cricket as opposed to the "pet store" cricket, so I knew that they had to come from the colony.

I'm afraid to do the roach thing because my wife detests them and I live in Arizona... where its HOT most of the time.

Wait... could that be a GOOD thing?  How HOT can the roaches live in?  Can I raise them in the shade of a garage in 95+ degrees?  THAT may be a good thing.  If I can raise them outside 8 months of the year and then buy crickets for the other 4...  MIGHT work!


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## PhormictopusMan (Oct 28, 2007)

Yes,  I will have to negotiate with my wife as well, if I go forward with this.  She has no problem with the spiders, but the roaches might be a hard sell.

--C


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## kupo969 (Oct 28, 2007)

You guys are so lucky, I live in Florida. If it were up to me I would have gotten roaches the minute I got my first T.


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## Travis K (Oct 28, 2007)

*Florida*

Well since you live in Florida, i imagine that you could just look under your kitchen sink and get some, breed them for a while and then start feeding them to your T's, just give them some time to breed out any risk of pesticides.


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## Kris-wIth-a-K (Oct 28, 2007)

*Crickets*

*I usually stick with crickets and feed them nutrient food stuff and apples to get them fat off of that first.  If you keep the crickets alive then you will be fine and they wont smell.  I kill off the "sound makers" in the first place so they wont keep me up.  I wont keep roaches.  If even 2 get out and they happen to reproduce theeeeeeeeeen before I know it I have a colony of roaches living in my house.  My t's and leopard geckos wond mind but I rather like having a nice, clean, organized home. ....  *


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## Travis K (Oct 28, 2007)

*Don't Knock Till You Try It!*

I thought the same thing too, but i gave it a try and now i will never go back!

*I would really like to know what other people are doing "at Home", and how they are doing it.  I wanted to get info form other people who are also raising there own feeders. what they are using as feeders, and how they keep them.*


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## Kris-wIth-a-K (Oct 28, 2007)

*+*

I can use the cricket to go fishing because they make great bait!


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## dtknow (Oct 28, 2007)

B. craniifer and B. discoidalis are legal to keep in FL, since they are already established there.

I've tried roaches on my regalis and you really just need to give them appropriate size roaches and chuck them into their shelters.


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## Travis K (Oct 28, 2007)

*Big Wigs*

Can any of the big wigs on this board let us know how and what feeders they keep for their Ts?


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## IdahoBiteyThing (Oct 28, 2007)

*dubia & arboreals*

The MM dubias seem to climb around more than the rest, but I just throw them right into the webbing of my arboreal containers, and bam!, they're gone.  I love roaches and will never go back to crickets!  My setup is almost identical to the one shown, but I find that keeping the eggcrates vertical works better- the frass falls to the bottom, where the nymphs need it to be.  I also have a colony on cork tiles (vertical), and I really like them- all the frass falls to the bottom, and it's easier to see where all the roaches are.  Just put some sort of spacer (I use large stainless steel nuts) on the corners in between each cork square to create enough space for the roaches to hang.


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## Travis K (Oct 28, 2007)

*Pics?*

could you post some pics of your setup?


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## arachnophoria (Oct 29, 2007)

*My comments on roaches*

I have worked with over 9 species of roaches and have kept them several ways.I have to point out that for large collections of reptiles,you several species of roach to give a good variety,b/c some roaches are very low on meat to shell ratios and some are high in fat.By feeding several species,yo create a natural balance of generally low fat prey as opposed to larval forms,like waxworms and mealworms.Since roaches are present everywhere,they simulate a natural diet pretty well.
I have used roaches for feeding my scorpions,tarantula,geckos,bearded dragons,chameleons,and lots of other things.Some of the best to use and that are easiest to maintain are dubia,discoids,latteralis(very fast),orange heads,and lobsters.Some roach colonies take over 6months to get going.I don't mix species that could cross breed.I consider a dry diet easiest to manage.I either order roach coach from an online supplier or more frequently make my own dry diet using powdered milk,spirulina,bee pollen,plain oatmeal,babycereal,unsweetened coconut,raw almonds,flaxseed,alfalfa powder,timothy hay,some dogfood,and fish flakes.I grind it all up in a belnder and store in the fridge.I find feeding a 100% fresh diet of collard,squash,fruits,and the like is benificial,but very hard work.I tend to use the dry as a stable and use the fresh as a moisture source,but I have fed only fresh to see if my herps were any healthier...no real difference,other than my own sense of effort was noticed.
I also use cocopeat as a substrate and keep it very slightly damp.I use tall rubbermaid bins with no lid and papertowel rolls or egg crates.The nymphs burrow and like to eat decomposing substrate...I almost never clean the colonies...it's not needed,but I do remove any dead ones.I also toss superworms and crickets in with the roaches and the breed and keep witht hem,without the mess and smell of keeping crix alone.They breed and give me a wide range of food sixes this way.I keep my roaches in a room heated to 85F by thermostat and that is best for optimal breeding,but they need a source of moisture or they slow down and eat one another.A lot of the cannibilism with roaches is more about moisture and less about protein,than many will say.Some climbing species need a lid and I use vaseline as a barrier around the inside of the lid in my climbers tanks.Some will escape.I found for communal scorpions,like C.gracilis,just placeing a bunch of lobster and latteralis roaches in at the start,maintained the colony,without additional feeding...the roaches bred,the scorps bred,and all the prey bred right in the enclosure.I watered and added food for the roaches every now and then t5o maintain this system.
Roaches can carry mites though also and you will see grain mites in the cages sometimes...they are harmless and seem to swarm when it is dry and thr roaches haven't been fed.wet the substrate down and keep the roaches well fed/watered and the mites will be kept to a minimum.My only other advice is to start with at least a 1000 roaches to be able to feed and allow them the colony to sustain itself...you need at least 500 adults to start.My top 4 pics are discoids(low fat and meaty about 2'' long),orange heads(higher in fat,meaty,about 1.5-2''),dubia(males have low meat to shell,but females are meatier....prolofic once started off),and latteralis for species that need climbing,quick prey and these are smaller and soft bodied...males and occasionaly fly,so a top is needed.
I alslo forgot to metion,I would suggest NOT only feeding out males to your animals in order to keep the females for breeding.This is a good practice for the roaches,but denys the predators nutrient balance that is obtained by eating female and male animals.Female hormones gottne from prey,may be helpful to female predators and certainly the higher levels of folic acid and other things in female prey are good for your pets.I to cull the males first,but I do feed females also for health reasons.


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## cacoseraph (Oct 29, 2007)

Travis K said:


> From what I have read Roaches are way more nutrious than crickets,





arachnophoria said:


> I have worked with over 9 species of roaches and have kept them several ways.I have to point out that for large collections of reptiles,you several species of roach to give a good variety,b/c some roaches are very low on meat to shell ratios and some are high in fat.By feeding several species,yo create a natural balance of generally low fat prey as opposed to larval forms,like waxworms and mealworms.Since roaches are present everywhere,they simulate a natural diet pretty well.


we don't know anything about tarantula nutritional requirements so everything that says "this is better nutrition" is immediately suspect. when it is a seller saying it... it is VERY suspect!




watch out with Orangeheads (Eublaberus posticus). they are at least as protein hungry as crix.  i just about ALWAYS head mangle orangies before feeding them out.  my small colony can demeat a dead mouse in something like 24h 

i use Nauphoeta cinerea "lobster roaches" as my staple.  i prekill/mangle almost all the time so the fact they are climbers is not a big deal for me.  good fecundity and size range.

i use Blatta lateralis as a special supplemental feeder. the mature males are one of the most widely accepted food items i have found.  some of my MM tarantulas will ONLY eat MM B.lat's.  it's a dang good trick 


i also have colonies of giant hissers, B. discoidalies, and B. dubia that i use as supplemental feeders... but the lobs are by far my favorite and staple feeder.


i try to get random species of stuff from petstores to feed out, especially if i have a number of females i am trying to breed. meal, wax, phoenix worms are all meat for my beasts. i will supplement large breeding females with a prekilled or F/T pinky mouse, also.


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## Travis K (Oct 29, 2007)

cacoseraph said:


> we don't know anything about tarantula nutritional requirements so everything that says "this is better nutrition" is immediately suspect. when it is a seller saying it... it is VERY suspect!


I really do see what you are saying, but to defend my integrity I posted this thread to find out more about what other people were doing for at home breeding projects for feeders.  The fact that I am selling off some of my dubia colony is what inspired me to find out more of what people are feed and how they are raising their prey.  And i have read online that Roaches are much better feeders on a nutritional level compared to crickets.

Now in regards with the thread topic, thanks to all for letting us know ho and what you breed for feeding.  *KEEP THE INFO COMING GUYS!*


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## AubZ (Oct 29, 2007)

I for one am not concerned with the whole nutrtion thing, as I know of ppl feeding ONLY crics to their T's and they are doing great.   However, as I stated in my first post, I would love to get a roach colony up & running MAINLY for variety to my T's.  At the moment I am attempting to breed mealworms and superworms.   I can't see myself attempting crics though, even when my collection gets big.   I think they are too much hassle.   So if I had a roach and worm colony going, I would already be saving more than enough to justify buying crics every now & then.

BTW does anyone know how many Superworms I would need to get a colony going.   Please list min amount of worms and then recommended.   Obviously the less one has, the longer it will take, but Hey I gots the time.  Thanks.


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## AubZ (Oct 29, 2007)

Forgot to add, that is not a bad price for your colony Travis.  If I stayed up that side of the world I would have taken 2.


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## cacoseraph (Oct 29, 2007)

Travis K said:


> I really do see what you are saying, but to defend my integrity I posted this thread to find out more about what other people were doing for at home breeding projects for feeders.  The fact that I am selling off some of my dubia colony is what inspired me to find out more of what people are feed and how they are raising their prey.  And i have read online that Roaches are much better feeders on a nutritional level compared to crickets.


lol, i'm not targetting you when i said the seller thing. there are a few, er, pro-ish ppl that straight out lie all the time about stuff like that

for reading online... at best you found a basic nutrional breakdown of some common feeders. it probably came from herp folks.  that is all well and good... the problem is we don't know the REQUIRMENTS so you can't say, "well, this sp has less fat and higher chromium, therefor it is better than this species which has more fat and more copper" or whatever.

as far as i know, everything else i have ever come across was anecdotal at best and farcical at worst.  


don't even get me started on the godawful "meat-to-shell ratio". or do. i like to expound on it


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## Truff135 (Oct 29, 2007)

I only have one T so would there really be a point to starting a colony of anything?  In my opinion, driving 5 minutes to Petland to grab a couple crics a week is fine with me.  I want to do whatever is best for my T though, so is starting a colony really the best thing for her?  To be quite honest though, I live in a 1-bedroom apartment so I really don't have the room for a tub-full of T food.  And lastly, does anyone know of pet store (chains) that sell feeder roaches individually?  Because if there are some, I would definitely buy them on occasion.  Thanks


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## butch4skin (Oct 29, 2007)

Truff135 said:


> I only have one T so would there really be a point to starting a colony of anything?  In my opinion, driving 5 minutes to Petland to grab a couple crics a week is fine with me.  I want to do whatever is best for my T though, so is starting a colony really the best thing for her?  To be quite honest though, I live in a 1-bedroom apartment so I really don't have the room for a tub-full of T food.  And lastly, does anyone know of pet store (chains) that sell feeder roaches individually?  Because if there are some, I would definitely buy them on occasion.  Thanks


You could do it for fun, if your into that type of thing. With one T, you'll rarely even have to go buy crickets. I have a roach colony to feed all my bugs, because buying the amount of crickets they require would simply bankrupt my broke ass. Still, I used to feed crix, like just about everybody else, never gutloaded, and never noticed any adverse effects on my animals. I'm absolutely positive that there are miles of nutritional difference between store bought half starved crickets, and home grown gut loaded roaches, and I'm sure they pass that nutritional value on to the animals that prey upon them. That said, I never noticed any outward signs of nutrient deficiency in my T's while feeding crix. I'm not even sure if I would know what to look for, other than general bad signs such as the death curl.


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## AubZ (Oct 29, 2007)

Definately wouldn't be any point feeding wise for you to start your own colony.  Plus they breed pretty quickly, so even when you get more & more T's, whenever you feel you want to give it ago, then you can.   For now it doesn't make sense.


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## Truff135 (Oct 29, 2007)

That's kinda what I figured.  I'm quite sure someday I'll have a whole room-full of T's, then I can look into breeding food.  Heck, maybe I'll even get frisky enough for scorpions if I could find anything other than emps...


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## AubZ (Oct 29, 2007)

Once the bug bites you are addicted for life...and sadly there no cure for it.


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## Truff135 (Oct 29, 2007)

Yeah...especially after I held her tonight when I got home.  She's going Webby McTarantula on me though, she loves making lots of silk all over the place.  I tried to coax my husband into holding her but he not-so-reluctantly declined   
That's ok though, I'll give her all the lovin' she needs


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## Travis K (Oct 29, 2007)

Truff135 said:


> I only have one T so would there really be a point to starting a colony of anything?  In my opinion, driving 5 minutes to Petland to grab a couple crics a week is fine with me.  I want to do whatever is best for my T though, so is starting a colony really the best thing for her?  To be quite honest though, I live in a 1-bedroom apartment so I really don't have the room for a tub-full of T food.  And lastly, does anyone know of pet store (chains) that sell feeder roaches individually?  Because if there are some, I would definitely buy them on occasion.  Thanks


Firstly, if you wanted a colony for one you very well could in an apartment, even keeping them in a five or ten gal glass aquarium.  One of my buddies grabbed some and did just that, and he lives in a 1 bedroom apt too.  LOL, he lives with several Leopard geckos, two tortoises(spelling?), a 180gal fresh water, 55gal freshwater, 55gal marine, 5gal fresh, a rossy boa, and to akkie(spelling) monitor.  Hmm, maybe he is a little extrem?

Secondly, me and my animal hording friend have discused why Pet Stores don't carry roaches, and we came to this very simple conclusion.  The Roaches are too easy to breed on your own and then the customer is not coming into the store any more to buy feeders from them.  And when you think about the amount of people that come in "just" for feeders and end up making impuls buys that would deffinately cut into the pet stores bottom line.


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## Travis K (Oct 29, 2007)

cacoseraph said:


> ........ ...don't even get me started on the godawful "meat-to-shell ratio". or do. i like to expound on it


Well i think it would pertain to the thread topic "The Perfect Food For T's".

Right?


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## Travis K (Nov 1, 2007)

*Any Body Else?*

Any body else want to weigh in?


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## cacoseraph (Nov 1, 2007)

Travis K said:


> Well i think it would pertain to the thread topic "The Perfect Food For T's".
> 
> Right?


ok 

basically it absolutely smacks of uninformed seller fluff. consider... who cares?  

the only ways a meat to shell ratio could matter that i can figure are:
1) you have a STRICT mass or VERY STRICT volume limit on your colony and basically are on the edge of not being able to provide enough metabolizable calories to your predator collection. think bug collections in space =P
2) you insist on livefeeding without mangling and have roaches with considerable defensive spines as a lower M:S ratio would most likely indicate a better armored creature that might be able to score a few hits with its spines
3) who exactly determines these ratios? how? unless it was a fairly well thought out "scientificky" effort likely the ratios are not very consistant with reality. 
4) disregarding all the above... who is to say a high M:S is necesarily better? what if the more highly developed exoskeletons of lower M:S creatures provides some *benefit* to a predator?  say... gives the pred more of some trace elements or nutrients? as long as minimum calorie requirements are met, nutritional requirements are the highest priority for optimizing an organisms like, life parameters or whatever

fact is, the hobby (and even science, i believe) has a PATHETIC understanding of tara nutritional needs. we know in VERY broad strokes that crix seem to provide enough nutrients and what not to sustain at least a couple/few generations of spiders.  Why this is, what nutrtional problems might arise currently or in the future from a monospecific diet, what needs to pass to avoid problems... we basically have no clue to.


Until some serious lab work or SERIOUS hobby science work is done we will continue to be guided by inference, supposition, and anecdotal evidence in feeding our bugs.


i personally believe that a staple of wellfed omnivorous feeders is essential... but supplementation of as many safe feeder species as possible is HIGHLY desireable!  when i am wild collecting i am always looking for species to work with as feeders.  it is hard though, as i basically have to find something on the edge of being pestiferous... or i won't have the like, fecundity and short life cycles i need.


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## Moltar (Nov 1, 2007)

My burgeoning dubia colony has surprised me. I've found that i get as much enjoyment out of watching them develop and grow as i do watching t's do the same. The adults are really remarkably large and strong, moving big pieces of egg crate out of their way and carrying around big chunks of food. i may be a little disapointed when it comes time to start feeding them off but with a colony, there's aaaalways more where that came from.

It's neat how they have tastes that change from day to day. One day they don't touch the squash and the next day they eat the bejeezus out of it. Then it's the cat food. They seem to like green beans better than anything i've put in there. The nymphs eat tunnels through the beans leaving only the skin intact.


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## cacoseraph (Nov 1, 2007)

etown_411 said:


> It's neat how they have tastes that change from day to day. One day they don't touch the squash and the next day they eat the bejeezus out of it. Then it's the cat food. They seem to like green beans better than anything i've put in there. The nymphs eat tunnels through the beans leaving only the skin intact.


my Eublaberus posticus colony is quite amusing. they are meat eaters. there is a gleaned duck head and mouse in there right now.

my hisser colony eventually eat a turkey leg down to bones and ligaments, actually.


i wonder if the feed selectivity has to do with balancing nutrient needs?


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## Travis K (Nov 1, 2007)

*watching roaches*

Yeah I love watching them interact in the colony and observing their little roachy lives too.  They are pretty neat, but i don't get sad or what ever when its time to feed.:evil:


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## butch4skin (Nov 1, 2007)

Is there a good reason not to feed dog or cat food to your feeders. Is it too high in calcium?


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## cacoseraph (Nov 2, 2007)

butch4skin said:


> Is there a good reason not to feed dog or cat food to your feeders. Is it too high in calcium?


seems to have been working for me for the past couple years.

cat food generally is goign to be higher in protein than dog food (look at their respective teeths).  honestly, like in everything a varied, safe diet is probably best.


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## butch4skin (Nov 3, 2007)

cacoseraph said:


> seems to have been working for me for the past couple years.
> 
> cat food generally is goign to be higher in protein than dog food (look at their respective teeths).  honestly, like in everything a varied, safe diet is probably best.


I'm sure your right in that a varied diet is best. I feed mine cat food, fruits, and vegetables, and that's it basically. The roaches are fine, but I _thought_ I remembered reading something about the health risks involved in feeding your tarantulas roaches raised on cat or dog food. I can't remember the specific reason or where I read it, though, so I just kind of assumed it had to do with high levels of calcium, as that is the only "healthful" mineral that I've heard can cause problems to T's in abundance. Oh well...


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## Travis K (Nov 3, 2007)

*What you eat is what you are., RIGHT?*

THat is very interesting guys.  I also feed a little bit of dry cat food and just a tiny bit of Dog food.  I think the more varriety you give you feeders the better they are to what you are feeding them to.

In all fairness, if the petstores actually did sell roaches they probably wouldn't have a varried diet either.  But that is still an assumption, either way Food raised at home is probably gonna have a more varried and balanced diet than food bought from petstores, but it depends on who is raising them.

Now I need to go read the nutritional info on the back of my cats food.  It probably isn't the best since i buy my cats the cheapest "healthy type food" I can get at :evil: WallMart:evil: .  My dog on the other hand gets expensive healthy food, lol-shows wich ones i let in the house and care most about!


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## Jewels0818 (Nov 3, 2007)

years ago i had a T that i fed crickets and it was a pain in the behind...
a month ago i got a C. fasciatum... and i'm already tired of the crickets, i don't want to go the pet store every week, i don't want a colony, they smell bad, and they are noisy... so i just started a colony of lobster roaches yesterday! My bf has a colony of orangeheads for his blondi that he started a few weeks ago.. so far, seems great!!

if anyone knows anything addressing just how specifically the calcium-nutrients of the roach are going to be harmful, please advise...


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## ednep (Nov 3, 2007)

b. dubias are the best...but after caring for them for a while i pity them everytime i give them as food for my ts....


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## butch4skin (Nov 3, 2007)

I don't _know_ this for certain, but I've heard tell that the reason that high levels of calcium can be harmful is that they are somehow detrimental to levels of magnesium in the theraphosid body, which is an essential element in the sclerotization of the cuticle after a molt, thus producing various problems including broken fangs and whatnot. I've never read this in a scholarly journal or anything, just heard rumor if it discussed here on the boards. I believe that it is not much more than a distinct possibility, and far from fact.


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## Travis K (Nov 3, 2007)

*Calcium levels*

So I gues the next quest is "How high are the Calcium Levels of roches, crickets and other feeders.  And how much does the feeders diet play a role in the calcium levels of the feeders with out dusting them.


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## Drachenjager (Nov 3, 2007)

Okitasoshi said:


> I also have a dubia colony, and find that at first they ate them like crazy but then after a while most of my roaches started ignoring them. cause they'll play dead and it makes it tough for the tarantula to get them. that's the only problems I've had. some like them some don't.


if you smash their head , they wont do that. they will just kick untill they get eaten. They also wont burrow out of sight.


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## Travis K (Nov 4, 2007)

*Smahing Their Head?*

I will try that tonight and let you know how long they either kick and or get eaten.  Well in the name of Science I will smash ones head in its own jar and see how long it takes it to die.  And for the record My male ate the last two thirds of a dubia one time and it was just the head and four of its first legs, and it lived for over a week before the T ate the rest of it.


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## cacoseraph (Nov 4, 2007)

butch4skin said:


> I don't _know_ this for certain, but I've heard tell that the reason that high levels of calcium can be harmful is that they are somehow detrimental to levels of magnesium in the theraphosid body, which is an essential element in the sclerotization of the cuticle after a molt, thus producing various problems including broken fangs and whatnot. I've never read this in a scholarly journal or anything, just heard rumor if it discussed here on the boards. I believe that it is not much more than a distinct possibility, and far from fact.


i have come across that as well. i don't remember if i ever saw a respectible cite for it though.  also, the fact that some ppl have been feeding their blondis or other giant taras or cents primarily mouse based diets for years leads me ot think there are other things going on. maybe some validity but not nearly the whole story. that being said, i only feed a single pinky to breeding project females, prekilled (usually FT, actually, now)


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## Travis K (Jan 8, 2008)

*I smashed it*



Drachenjager said:


> if you smash their head , they wont do that. they will just kick untill they get eaten. They also wont burrow out of sight.


I smashed a mature males head and 6 days ago and it's still kicking, LOL
I guess it will live untill it dies of starvation or dehydration?


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## tacoma0680 (Jan 8, 2008)

*Heat for roaches?*

What do you guys like to keep the temps at for your roaches ( Dubia and discoids Red runners)


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## Travis K (Jan 9, 2008)

*heat*



tacoma0680 said:


> What do you guys like to keep the temps at for your roaches ( Dubia and discoids Red runners)


I use a heat mat undderr the tub, and I am also useing a Medical heating pad right now as well.


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## Yojimbo1717 (May 6, 2008)

Sorry to bring this one back, but when I had bearded dragons Superworms made my life so easy (gah I hate crickets).  I'm going to be getting two juvenile tarantulas within the next few weeks  (they're probably going to be at about an inch each) and am wondering when I can make the transition to small superworms after the pinhead crickets.  I read earlier in this thread that cutting them in half is a possibility?  Will the tarantulas really eat them?  Last time I had them, superworms didn't really move around a whole lot once half of their body was gone, top or bottom   

How should I go about this?


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## Travis K (May 6, 2008)

I have never witnessed this but I think that Ts may take advantage of already dead meals at times.  I don't know about superworms that much I know you can't grow them out like regular meal worms cause I have tried and they always expired instead of molting out into beatles.

I have really liked having my own roach colony cause the 1st instar nymphs are very small and great for slings.  I might not be the best person to answer you question fully?


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## Travis K (May 6, 2008)

Yojimbo1717 said:


> Sorry to bring this one back...


Why it is cool to see people using the search function.  Especially when it is a thread that I started!


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## Yojimbo1717 (May 6, 2008)

Searching makes for less trouble!

I had a great experience with superworms and just the opposite with mealworms.  Gah I hate those things.

Would you suggest mealworms instead of crickets for the two tarantulas when they're young?  I want to move to superworms but good God I hate crickets.  They smash up easily, drown easily, eat each other incessantly, are loud...it's a world of trouble.


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## Travis K (May 6, 2008)

Yojimbo1717 said:


> Searching makes for less trouble!
> 
> I had a great experience with superworms and just the opposite with mealworms.  Gah I hate those things.
> 
> Would you suggest mealworms instead of crickets for the two tarantulas when they're young?  I want to move to superworms but good God I hate crickets.  They smash up easily, drown easily, eat each other incessantly, are loud...it's a world of trouble.


I would suggest mealworms over crickets and and roaches over mealworms.  As to your question, I have no experiencce feeding meal worms to slings just baby roaches.


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## billopelma (May 6, 2008)

Small superworms  or cut up segments of same work for slings as well as any other feeders I keep. 
The issue I've run into is that the colony seems to coordinate itself into cycles and you eventually end up with mostly similar sized worms in any one colony. The only way I've gotten around this is to have a few colonies going simultaneously, started at staggered intervals. I have also noticed this to a lesser degree with mealworms. 

I currently keep four different species of roaches in addition to the super and meal worms and still end up buying crickets because everything I feed won't eat the other stuff all the time. If you don't try offering crickets (or any given alternate food) then you really have no way of knowing whether the critter your feeding isn't hungry at that time or simply doesn't want what your offering. 
 I see countless examples of this all the time and there appears to be no discernible pattern as to what will eat what, when. This includes not only my reptiles, T's, fish and the feeders themselves but even my parrots and chickens. Nothing replaces variety....

Bill


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## AubZ (May 6, 2008)

I use mealworms for smaller T's and supers for the larger.   The bulk diet is crickets though, unless mated, then I try feed more supers more often.


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## Travis K (May 6, 2008)

billopelma said:


> Small superworms  or cut up segments of same work for slings as well as any other feeders I keep.
> The issue I've run into is that the colony seems to coordinate itself into cycles and you eventually end up with mostly similar sized worms in any one colony. The only way I've gotten around this is to have a few colonies going simultaneously, started at staggered intervals. I have also noticed this to a lesser degree with mealworms.
> 
> I currently keep four different species of roaches in addition to the super and meal worms and still end up buying crickets because everything I feed won't eat the other stuff all the time. If you don't try offering crickets (or any given alternate food) then you really have no way of knowing whether the critter your feeding isn't hungry at that time or simply doesn't want what your offering.
> ...



what do you do to get a super worm colony going?  Mine always died but I kept them with the meal worms.


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## Yojimbo1717 (May 6, 2008)

Great suggestions everyone.  I'll try a diet of mostly mealworms to start out, with roaches at second and crickets last.  Later on I'll add superworms as the primary.  Variety is a good thing.  Thanks everyone.


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## dtknow (May 6, 2008)

Do you guys think that the acceptance of crickets may have to do with most of our animals being previously fed these.

I've noticed cases where apparently hungry T's turned down a roach and then later accepted a different food item.


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## digiwalker (May 6, 2008)

*Quiet Crickets!*

As noted by others, I too became annoyed with the sound of adult crickets chirping. In fact I would literally hunt down the native ones in my house at night just to shut them up.

I did alot of work outside, and I kept noticing when I moved large items there were often dozens of camel crickets (aka cave crickets or spider crickets or even "sprickets")

The one thing I noticed is that they don't chirp! So I gethered about 8 females and 2 males. I put them in a 10 gallon aquarium with about 2" of play sand, a feeder dish and about 15 toilet paper tubes.  They were fed potato slices and/or orange slices and rolled oats and other grains. It took about 4 weeks until I noticed little pinheads runing around!

The cool thing about these crickets is that they will throw their hind legs really easy, making them great prey items for slower, or even injured/ill herps and spiders. Their bodies are fairly soft without a lot of shell.  AND the best part of all, they don't chirp!

So if you live on the east coast, you will probably find these running around in your basement or under large rocks, or even in your outside water cutoff box!


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## pato_chacoana (May 6, 2008)

I agree with you Bill. VARIETY in diet I think is the most important thing when feeding. I don't think it's healthy for tarantulas to eat ONLY on same roach species for their entire life. And if a tarantula doesn't eat a cricket she is got to be in premolt or not hungry at all! In my experience, the most irrestible preys for tarantulas are big black crickets for bigger tarantulas or the common Acheta domestica for smaller tarantulas.
I don't like any worms for my tarantulas though.

Pato.


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## dtknow (May 6, 2008)

digiwalker said:


> As noted by others, I too became annoyed with the sound of adult crickets chirping. In fact I would literally hunt down the native ones in my house at night just to shut them up.
> 
> I did alot of work outside, and I kept noticing when I moved large items there were often dozens of camel crickets (aka cave crickets or spider crickets or even "sprickets")
> 
> ...


I've found they are highly cannibalistic...surprised you got babies from them with the adults still there.

But I agree, they would be an excellent T food. I'm surprised no one has tried. I need to catch some myself.


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## digiwalker (May 6, 2008)

dtknow said:


> I've found they are highly cannibalistic...surprised you got babies from them with the adults still there.
> 
> But I agree, they would be an excellent T food. I'm surprised no one has tried. I need to catch some myself.


I think the fact that I provided lots of hiding spots prevented cannibilism. And I kept the sand damp, but not wet. Another thing, they like cool and damp, so no additional heat is necessary.


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## billopelma (May 7, 2008)

> what do you do to get a super worm colony going? Mine always died but I kept them with the meal worms.



The key is that the worms must be separated before they will pupate.
This has the added benefit that the worms live for a very long time without pupating if kept together, never tried to keep track but I would guess some of mine have lasted well over a year.

This is how I do it but you can also use film pots, drams or whatever







When one matures into a beetle I toss in a new worm so there are always some at different stages of development. This pic was taken when I first started them so most are at about the same point. I'm on my fourth full generation, haven't had to buy meal or super worms in a couple years. 
Some people don't like giving them to T's but I feel that this is largely due to the bad rap they have associated with reptiles, which may or may not have any relevance to T's.

There is an old but still relevant writeup in the articles section, here;

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=15216


Bill


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## MelGibson (May 7, 2008)

Qvarnold said:


> although I avoid giving them animal protein such as meat, cheese, and so on. Don't know why but it feels wierd giving them such.


If you dont feed them protien theyll start eating each others wings and then theyll start eating the nymphs, they crave protien and its manditory for thier diet, i just feed them dog food they love it and it wont rot


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## pinkfoot (May 7, 2008)

AubZ said:


> That is some great info.  I have been wanting to get a colony of B dubia for quite some time to add variety to my T's diet.   However, I just cannot find them here by me.


My China!

Just chat to your pal in Jo'Burg.... 

Be glad to supply you.


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## Travis K (May 7, 2008)

BILOPELMA

Thanks for the info on the superworms I have not seen that thread so it was a great read.  I might have to try and start a superworm colony for fun some time this summer?


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## Marijan2 (Feb 18, 2013)

Sorry for bumping this thread but this is good read 

I feed all my T's with dubia and they are as far the best feeder i used, my all T's eat them regularily and had no problems whatsover

For the people that keep same roaches for several years: did you noticed any defect in them due to inbreeding? I am not sure if i should occasionally trade half of them with another people who keep roaches to minimalise it.


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## TpleaseForMe (Feb 24, 2013)

great setup dude love it. looks almost same as mine just keep up the feeding or the females will kill the males


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## Ultum4Spiderz (Feb 25, 2013)

I feed dubia's but the arboreal sometimes will not eat them.


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