# CYST Severity??



## Ultum4Spiderz (Dec 11, 2011)

Id like to know how how bad is my T Stirmi's cyst ?? is the conidition my Goliath is in... it acts perfectly healthy despite the cyst






Judging from Pics.. clearly there is no way other then hoping for a good molt to remove a cyst.. surgery can be deadly.


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## Ultum4Spiderz (Dec 11, 2011)

Here are 3 more pics .. 
hope my T recovers from the cyst when it molts.. its not in pre molt yet though.. hasnt stopped eating,,
despite the fact im not feeding it for a good 2 weeks+
Very GOOD looking spider .. I really hope its alright


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## jayefbe (Dec 12, 2011)

Any "rating" that anyone gives you is going to be completely meaningless. So much of it depends on how fast the cyst develops, how quickly the T molts, and if the cyst sticks around or stays after the molt. I'm not even sure if all cyst-like growths are the same in all cases. They likely are not. I once had a P. ornata sling with a tiny cyst-like lesion. It molted out and was never to be seen again. In other instances, cysts are formed and remain over multiple molts. At this point, nobody really knows. 

I will say this, the cyst has grown significantly in just a week's time (picture #1 in post 2 compared to all other pictures).


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## Thobby1982 (Dec 12, 2011)

jayefbe said:


> I will say this, the cyst has grown significantly in just a week's time (picture #1 in post 2 compared to all other pictures).


How did you come to that conclusion when all the pictures have the same date 2011 12 11, and IMO the cyst looks to be the same size in all the pics.


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## Comatose (Dec 12, 2011)

Ibid on the rating system; if I were you I'd spend some time digging through the other threads on this topic and take the advice you find there. Both RobC and Fran had some decent discussions on the topic of cysts & molting in large theraphosa specimens.


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## Ultum4Spiderz (Dec 12, 2011)

Thobby1982 said:


> How did you come to that conclusion when all the pictures have the same date 2011 12 11, and IMO the cyst looks to be the same size in all the pics.


all pics were tooken dec 11 , except one was took december 4th... they are all around the same date
it has gotten a little worse since the first pics I shouldnt have fed it at all...


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## jayefbe (Dec 12, 2011)

Thobby1982 said:


> How did you come to that conclusion when all the pictures have the same date 2011 12 11, and IMO the cyst looks to be the same size in all the pics.


Look again. One pic is from 12/4. Also, this is the third thread the OP has started with pictures of this tarantula's abdomen. Looking at all the pictures, the increase in size is even more obvious.


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## xhexdx (Dec 12, 2011)

I may be mistaken, but I don't recall any Theraphosa surviving a cyst like this.  At least nothing documented on here.

I'd love to see any thread(s) where one did survive though.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Comatose (Dec 12, 2011)

xhexdx said:


> I may be mistaken, but I don't recall any Theraphosa surviving a cyst like this.  At least nothing documented on here.
> 
> I'd love to see any thread(s) where one did survive though.


I don't see anything either; below are two threads which have a lot of information for the OP, both centered around the same spider and thus both with the same unhappy ending. 

A couple quick questions for the OP - it's been mentioned that the cyst looks worse, or that it's getting worse, have you fed the spider since you recieved it, and if so, what, and in what quantity did you feed it. When? You know to stop feeding it now, right?

Here are a couple threads you (OP) can read through; make sure to click through the links. Also, 'cyst' turns up a plethora of hits here, some of them aren't applicable, but it couldn't hurt. 

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?183631-Not-a-good-sign-at-all-(&highlight=cyst

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/sho...ng-Zilla-s-cyst-growth-needed!&highlight=cyst

Lastly, a quick question that might already be answered elsewhere - has anyone considered that this might effect only T. stirmi? It seems that all the affected individuals I've read about are stirmi....

*EDIT - last question - Has anyone ever tried draining a cyst on a Theraphosa? I'm aware that it would be difficult procedure, but if the prognosis is that poor then perhaps it's at least worth a discussion.


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## Ultum4Spiderz (Dec 12, 2011)

Comatose said:


> I don't see anything either; below are two threads which have a lot of information for the OP, both centered around the same spider and thus both with the same unhappy ending.
> 
> A couple quick questions for the OP - it's been mentioned that the cyst looks worse, or that it's getting worse, have you fed the spider since you recieved it, and if so, what, and in what quantity did you feed it. When? You know to stop feeding it now, right?
> 
> ...


while the cyst is small... I havent seen any T stirmi's survive one  I can only hope for the best


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## Formerphobe (Dec 12, 2011)

> has anyone considered that this might effect only T. stirmi? It seems that all the affected individuals I've read about are stirmi....


I lost a MF G. rosea in March of this year to an abdominal cyst/hernia.  I'm aware of a B. smithi that has molted once since its cystic lesion appeared.  The lesion is smaller post-molt, but still present.  If I recall correctly, the smithi is a MF as well, but I'd have to look that up or contact the keeper.
Anyone know of males developing these things?

ETA: One of the links you posted is a thread with documentation and photos of a B. boehmei that succumbed to her (another MF...) cyst/hernia.
What I found when I necropsied my rosea was similar to what Joe found with his molting boehmei.  Except my girl expired without molting.  
"Hernia" is probably a more accurate description of some of these lesions.  An injury or defect could prevent appropriate formation of the necessary layers of exoskeleton resulting in a herniation that appears outwardly to be cystic in nature.


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## Comatose (Dec 13, 2011)

Comatose said:


> Lastly, a quick question that might already be answered elsewhere - has anyone considered that this might effect only T. stirmi? It seems that all the affected individuals I've read about are stirmi....


This was a poorly phrased question on my part. I meant, of the three known Theraphosa species, is it possible that only stirmi is affected? I ask because I've never (knowingly) owned or cared for stirmi, and likewise I've never noticed a cyst.



Formerphobe said:


> I lost a MF G. rosea in March of this year to an abdominal cyst/hernia.  I'm aware of a B. smithi that has molted once since its cystic lesion appeared.  The lesion is smaller post-molt, but still present.  If I recall correctly, the smithi is a MF as well, but I'd have to look that up or contact the keeper.
> Anyone know of males developing these things?
> 
> ETA: One of the links you posted is a thread with documentation and photos of a B. boehmei that succumbed to her (another MF...) cyst/hernia.
> ...


If you search 'cyst' you'll come up with a few examples of spiders molting through a cyst and surviving. My understanding is that a hernia is the protrusion of an organ through a weak muscle while a cyst is just the formation of liquid in a bubble. The former would make it much harder to intervene. If that's the case, I wonder what would be protruding.


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## Londoner (Dec 13, 2011)

Comatose said:


> last question - Has anyone ever tried draining a cyst on a Theraphosa? I'm aware that it would be difficult procedure, but if the prognosis is that poor then perhaps it's at least worth a discussion.


I'm not sure about _Therophosa_, but did you see the video Talkenlate04 made a couple of years back where he cut and drained a cyst on the abdomen of a female _P. rufilata_? Obviously we can't say if it's the same type of cyst that's on the OP's T, but it's an interesting video none the less.

Here's a link to the thread in case you missed it. The video and pictures of the "surgery" are on page 2 of the thread...http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=127341&highlight=surgery


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## 1hughjazzspider (Dec 13, 2011)

Londoner said:


> Here's a link to the thread in case you missed it. The video and pictures of the "surgery" are on page 2 of the thread...http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=127341&highlight=surgery



I couldn't find the video on there anywhere. 

But IMO surgery is just risky of an option unless you really know what you're doing.


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## Londoner (Dec 13, 2011)

1hughjazzspider said:


> I couldn't find the video on there anywhere.
> 
> But IMO surgery is just risky of an option unless you really know what you're doing.


The video is embedded in post number 22, between the two photos. I totally agree about the risk in attempting this. I wouldn't recommend trying it unless you were confident enough and fully prepared to accept the consequences, good or bad. I don't think it would even be an option in the OP's case.


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## jim777 (Dec 13, 2011)

1hughjazzspider said:


> I couldn't find the video on there anywhere.
> 
> But IMO surgery is just risky of an option unless you really know what you're doing.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDXSGyM9ypI&feature=player_embedded


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## 1hughjazzspider (Dec 13, 2011)

Londoner said:


> The video is embedded in post number 22, between the two photos.



Maybe it's just me but there's just a big blank space between the photos when I click the link. What'd you do though just search surgery?

Edit: Thabnk you Jim.


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## Comatose (Dec 13, 2011)

Londoner said:


> I'm not sure about _Therophosa_, but did you see the video Talkenlate04 made a couple of years back where he cut and drained a cyst on the abdomen of a female _P. rufilata_? Obviously we can't say if it's the same type of cyst that's on the OP's T, but it's an interesting video none the less.
> 
> Here's a link to the thread in case you missed it. The video and pictures of the "surgery" are on page 2 of the thread...http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=127341&highlight=surgery


This is tremendous, thank you. I was envisioning usings a very small gauge needle or wire for a slow, controlled drain personally, but it's good to know this has been done in some form or another.



1hughjazzspider said:


> I couldn't find the video on there anywhere.
> 
> But IMO surgery is just risky of an option unless you really know what you're doing.


I agree on the risk, but as Joe said, it appears the known survival rate is zero... perhaps the risk is worth it if it could save the spiders life.


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## 1hughjazzspider (Dec 13, 2011)

Comatose said:


> I agree on the risk, but as Joe said, it appears the known survival rate is zero... perhaps the risk is worth it if it could save the spiders life.



I can't argue with you on that honestly.


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## Ultum4Spiderz (Dec 13, 2011)

Comatose said:


> This is tremendous, thank you. I was envisioning usings a very small gauge needle or wire for a slow, controlled drain personally, but it's good to know this has been done in some form or another.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree on the risk, but as Joe said, it appears the known survival rate is zero... perhaps the risk is worth it if it could save the spiders life.


The Cyst on my specimen isnt very large.. surgery would provably lower survivability to 0%
THE Spider is in True Pre-molt now... so 1-1.5 months or so it will probably molt


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## Newflvr (Dec 13, 2011)

Ultum4Spiderz said:


> The Cyst on my specimen isnt very large.. surgery would provably lower survivability to 0%
> THE Spider is in True Pre-molt now... so 1-1.5 months or so it will probably molt


I'm wondering how you have determined pre-molt and the time till the molt is done.


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## Comatose (Dec 13, 2011)

Newflvr said:


> I'm wondering how you have determined pre-molt and the time till the molt is done.


Ditto... has the abdomen darkened to almost black? If so it should be a week or two max.


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## Ultum4Spiderz (Dec 13, 2011)

It's not that dark she is now refusing fOod
So 1monty prolly her legs are quit dark though


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## Newflvr (Dec 13, 2011)

Ultum4Spiderz said:


> It's not that dark she is now refusing fOod
> So 1monty prolly her legs are quit dark though


Have you witnessed several molt cycles to come up with this conclusion?


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## Ultum4Spiderz (Dec 13, 2011)

Newflvr said:


> Have you witnessed several molt cycles to come up with this conclusion?


the only T Ive had not in pre-molt & refusing to Eat.. are MM males, B smithi's & G rosea... this T clearly is in pre-molt..
Ive owned Ts for a while now... T stirmi is just a "LARGER T" with more advanced care... they have the same general molt cycle as Lasidora parahybana etc.. legs darken , then abdomen

if im wrong.. then its kudos(RIP) for the T the more time it has in-between the molt.. the higher chance the cyst can get worse
I dont expect the spider to do well... I can only hope it does


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## xhexdx (Dec 13, 2011)

If only you knew what you were talking about...
:wall:


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## Shell (Dec 13, 2011)

Ultum...seriously just stop now.

You really should not be bashing the seller like that. If you have an issue with him, you deal with it privately. The way you're going on, nobody on these boards is ever going to want to sell anything to you, or do any kind of business with you.

Really, just stop posting when you have no clue what you're talking about, it's long past getting old.


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## Comatose (Dec 13, 2011)

The refusal to feed could well be a sign of her symptoms worsening, and you _really_ ought not feed her even if she takes food. 

Here's what I think might help: I did a cursory Google search and found *This*

While these are reptile specific vets, you may find one willing to consider the procedure we've discussed above. Regardless of your financial situation, you may be able to find one that's willing to help, since vets tend to be pretty big fans of animals not dying. Please take the time to go through this list, call vets in your area, and see if you can do something to not only help the spider out, but advance the knowledge of this apparently terminal syndrome in Theraphosa. 

Best of luck!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ultum4Spiderz (Dec 13, 2011)

Shell said:


> Ultum...seriously just stop now.
> 
> You really should not be bashing the seller like that. If you have an issue with him, you deal with it privately. The way you're going on, nobody on these boards is ever going to want to sell anything to you, or do any kind of business with you.
> 
> Really, just stop posting when you have no clue what you're talking about, it's long past getting old.


Ive done a lotta searching on cysts... unfortately... it dosnt look like hardly any Stirmis suvive them... 
why you guys diss me  & say I got no idea what im talking about... is weird..& Pointless cuz I do research 
How do I have no idea what im talking about??? yeah sick Ts also refuse food... Both my ts lost to dks... refused food
Me & the Dealer discussed it already I got no problems with him..


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## 1hughjazzspider (Dec 13, 2011)

Shell said:


> Ultum...seriously just stop now.
> 
> You really should not be bashing the seller like that. If you have an issue with him, you deal with it privately. The way you're going on, nobody on these boards is ever going to want to sell anything to you, or do any kind of business with you.
> 
> Really, just stop posting when you have no clue what you're talking about, it's long past getting old.




I hate to be rude and bash the guy because I know he needs everyone's help here. Hell I'd help the guy if I could. But Shell I agree with you 100% here. From saying the seller was a good honest seller when the cyst was first discovered to retracting and saying the he was never made aware of the cyst to retracting yet again by saying once more that he was a good seller because he promised a refund if it didn't make it thru it's next molt. Ultum you can't expect anyone on here to take you seriously with remarks like this. They're all just gonna look down upon you. I'm again going to attempt to help you. Take the advice of the people on here who are trying to help you. They're only looking out for your best interests.


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## advan (Dec 13, 2011)

Ultum4Spiderz said:


> Ive done a lotta searching on cysts... unfortately... it dosnt look like hardly any Stirmis suvive them...
> How do I have no idea what im talking about??? yeah sick Ts also refuse food... Both my ts lost to dks... refused food


What exactly is DKS? How did you come to the conclusion that you lost two of your spiders to it?


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## Shell (Dec 13, 2011)

1hughjazzspider said:


> I hate to be rude and bash the guy because I know he needs everyone's help here. Hell I'd help the guy if I could. But Shell I agree with you 100% here. From saying the seller was a good honest seller when the cyst was first discovered to retracting and saying the he was never made aware of the cyst to retracting yet again by saying once more that he was a good seller because he promised a refund if it didn't make it thru it's next molt. Ultum you can't expect anyone on here to take you seriously with remarks like this. They're all just gonna look down upon you. I'm again going to attempt to help you. Take the advice of the people on here who are trying to help you. They're only looking out for your best interests.


I see he also edited his post and removed the part where he bashed the sellers packing job, saying that the cyst was the result of bad packing, and is now back to saying only good things about the seller.

I wish I could help him learn too, but apparently it's a pointless effort.


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## Ultum4Spiderz (Dec 14, 2011)

Yeah im not expert on cysts... tell me what you need to.... I know sick Ts also refuse food... both my Ts I lost to Diskenetic Syndrome(DKS) ..stopped eating.. then lost all control of there legs & died
The Goliath gave me a big threat pose when I tried to feed it also.. since the seller said I should feed it so it molts faster,.. & it refused food
I dont enjoy see'ing my pet spiders die:cry:


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## jayefbe (Dec 14, 2011)

I second (and third and fourth and fifth....) everyone's comments about bashing the seller. I've already told you to keep your experience with the seller PRIVATE. If you decide it's appropriate to give a poor review that post it in the APPROPRIATE FORUM, although I'm not sure how many would take the post seriously. Until then, just don't even mention his name. He's done nothing wrong as far as I can tell. In fact, he's offering more than I would, considering your obvious naivete when it comes to many aspects of keeping tarantulas. Your actions regarding this experience (not to mention complaining about a freebie in another thread) are going to keep people from selling to, buying from or trading with you.

Also, I don't see anything indicating the T is in pre-molt.


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## Comatose (Dec 14, 2011)

Did you call any of the vets?


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## Ultum4Spiderz (Dec 14, 2011)

Comatose said:


> Did you call any of the vets?


none are anywere near my zip code.. I gotta find somewere farther out  reptile vets arent big in my area.. neither are Exotic pets


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## Chris_Skeleton (Dec 14, 2011)

Comatose said:


> Did you call any of the vets?


I seriously hope this was joke... It was, wasn't it? :?


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## Comatose (Dec 14, 2011)

Chris_Skeleton said:


> I seriously hope this was joke... It was, wasn't it? :?


Nope... really hoping he looks for a solution here. See my original post and explanation.



Ultum4Spiderz said:


> none are anywere near my zip code.. I gotta find somewere farther out  reptile vets arent big in my area.. neither are Exotic pets


Have you looked? You can just google 'Ohio Reptile Vets' and call around... vets that will even look at a spider are few and far between, much less one that might be able to help, so I would suggest getting on that now. I would also suggest that you stop feeding her or disturbing her all together, right away! If the cyst is getting worse more pictures are not going to solve your problem, you need to consider surgical intervention.


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## Shell (Dec 14, 2011)

Comatose said:


> Nope... really hoping he looks for a solution here. See my original post and explanation.


As a vet tech who has worked with exotic vets, I really doubt much will be able to be done. I spoke with my exotic vet about "cysts" in tarantulas a year or so ago, when I was in for something else. We spoke in depth and even though he has extensive experience with many different animals (he removed a growth on a fish once, and it survived) he was really at a loss for what it was or what could be done about treating it successfully. There just isn't enough known about tarantulas and their health issues, unfortunately.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea, just that I doubt much will come from it. You never know, he may find a vet who is willing to try to do something about it, but that will be at the risk of the spider, and whether or not anything can actually be learned about this "condition" is questionable. We don't even know what these growths actually are, calling them cysts is a guess at best. That would be the closest thing I could think to call them, but I really do wonder what they actually are.


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## Comatose (Dec 14, 2011)

I agree with you Shell(ey?); I actually went through a similar situation with a sick moray last year; I called every vet in the area, and despite having one of the best veterinary schools in the area, I couldn't find anyone willing to help me. I agree that it's a long shot; that said, it's not impossible either. 

Failing surgical intervention, OP needs to stop feeding/disturbing the T... I understand it's also a long shot, but perhaps she can molt out on her own. I've got my fingers crossed.


Edit - And just one last thing; I hope I'm not coming off as giving the OP false hope or anything; it would just be great if, even if the spider dies, we could learn more about this disease/syndrome/whatever it is. One of the things that keeps bringing me back to the bug hobby is the desire to expand scientific knowledge; you don't see nearly as much of that with fish or reptiles.


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## Ultum4Spiderz (Dec 14, 2011)

Comatose said:


> I agree with you Shell(ey?); I actually went through a similar situation with a sick moray last year; I called every vet in the area, and despite having one of the best veterinary schools in the area, I couldn't find anyone willing to help me. I agree that it's a long shot; that said, it's not impossible either.
> 
> Failing surgical intervention, OP needs to stop feeding/disturbing the T... I understand it's also a long shot, but perhaps she can molt out on her own. I've got my fingers crossed.


I tried to feeding cuz the seller suggested it... she is refusing food.. so I will ignore & not disturb the T for a while & hope less stress helps out on the molt
surgery seems quite risky though... the cyst is on the smaller side.. Rob C's Zilla had a way bigger cyst


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## Comatose (Dec 14, 2011)

Ultum4Spiderz said:


> surgery seems quite risky though... the cyst is on the smaller side.. Rob C's Zilla had a way bigger cyst


Then leave it. You've removed all the prey items then, right? Don't add any more for at least a month; after that you should re evaluate based on the size of the cyst, molt stage, and the overall outward appearance of the spider (my opinion).


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## Shell (Dec 14, 2011)

Comatose said:


> I agree with you Shell(ey?); I actually went through a similar situation with a sick moray last year; I called every vet in the area, and despite having one of the best veterinary schools in the area, I couldn't find anyone willing to help me. I agree that it's a long shot; that said, it's not impossible either.
> 
> Failing surgical intervention, OP needs to stop feeding/disturbing the T... I understand it's also a long shot, but perhaps she can molt out on her own. I've got my fingers crossed.
> 
> ...


Yes, Shelley it is.  

I agree with your reasoning, it would be great if we could somehow learn what these growths are and if there is any way to deal with them. I know that if I had a spider with something like this, I would let my exotic vet do whatever he wanted to try and learn more, he said he would always be willing, just doubts what could be done/learned from it. There is no harm in attempting to learn more, aside from of course, it could cost the spider it's life. For some of us though, we would be willing to make that sacrifice if we could learn something from it.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Chris_Skeleton (Dec 14, 2011)

I don't see what a vet could do that we couldn't? Let alone, If they even knew anything about tarantulas. What extra, by means of first aid, could they offer that we don't know about?


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## Comatose (Dec 14, 2011)

_We_ aren't there. I completely agree with your sentiments that the best resources in terms of T care are right here; if we were GE, we could just fly one of our technicians out there to lend a skilled hand. Obviously, we don't have those resources and my thinking was that since OP is adverse to performing surgery, perhaps he could find a vet that would. Totally a long shot, but worth a shot given the apparent gravity of the situation. A vet _could_ offer a steady hand, expertise, a surgical environment, or even just a referral to someone in the field that might be able to help. Again, a long shot... I accept that. I'll admit, in a lifetime of keeping all manner of animals, I've turned to vets only in extreme situations... based on the history of Theraphosa & cysts, I'd say this is extreme. 

It seems the point is moot now as OP has decided to wait and observe, which is probably a good course of action at this point anyway.


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## ijmccollum (Dec 14, 2011)

Shell said:


> We don't even know what these growths actually are, calling them cysts is a guess at best. That would be the closest thing I could think to call them, but I really do wonder what they actually are.


Cyst v hernia, you can't drain a hernia only repair it and I don't see that happening with a T.  As for "cyst" that's a d@mn good question.


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## Shell (Dec 14, 2011)

ijmccollum said:


> Cyst v hernia, you can't drain a hernia only repair it and I don't see that happening with a T.  As for "cyst" that's a d@mn good question.


I'm a vet tech, I am very aware of the differences between a cyst and a hernia, those aren't the only growths that animals can get though. My point was that we really don't know what these growths on tarantulas are, we are calling them cysts, but we don't actually know that. We also don't know if they are the same thing on every spider, they may be but they may not be. 

I may be missing something, but has anyone tried draining one on a spider? If they have, then yes, cyst would definitely be my thought, but again they may not be the same on every spider. Also many tumors and benign masses contain fluids that can be drained, but that doesn't get rid of them. Also, typically just draining a cyst doesn't get rid of it, they will usually come back if not properly removed/repaired.

I didn't mean to sound defensive or nasty, I hope it didn't come across that way. Just saying, I would be very interested to see if we can figure out what these growths actually are, instead of us just guessing.


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## Comatose (Dec 14, 2011)

Shell said:


> I'm a vet tech, I am very aware of the differences between a cyst and a hernia, those aren't the only growths that animals can get though. My point was that we really don't know what these growths on tarantulas are, we are calling them cysts, but we don't actually know that. We also don't know if they are the same thing on every spider, they may be but they may not be.
> 
> I may be missing something, but has anyone tried draining one on a spider? If they have, then yes, cyst would definitely be my thought, but again they may not be the same on every spider. Also many tumors and benign masses contain fluids that can be drained, but that doesn't get rid of them. Also, typically just draining a cyst doesn't get rid of it, they will usually come back if not properly removed/repaired.
> 
> I didn't mean to sound defensive or nasty, I hope it didn't come across that way. Just saying, I would be very interested to see if we can figure out what these growths actually are, instead of us just guessing.


This was a little earlier in the thread, though I'm not clear on whether is was an actual cyst, or something that formed as a result of a wound. Regardless, he successfully lanced it, drained it and sealed it, and the spider apparently survived. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDXSGyM9ypI&feature=player_embedded

The point as to whether the situation with Theraphosa species is a cyst of some kind or a hernia is a good one, and it would certainly dictate whether draining is a viable option. That said, it appears that if it could be established that _it is_ a cyst, a drain could be performed successfully. 

My .02, and while I did clean kennels in high school, that's about the extent of my formal veterinary training


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## mmfh (Dec 14, 2011)

Just curious, if a person was going to try to figure out what one of these growths were and had a willing vet..... Would u get an x-ray or a sonagram ?


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## Shell (Dec 14, 2011)

Comatose said:


> This was a little earlier in the thread, though I'm not clear on whether is was an actual cyst, or something that formed as a result of a wound. Regardless, he successfully lanced it, drained it and sealed it, and the spider apparently survived.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDXSGyM9ypI&feature=player_embedded
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing, I missed that. 

If draining and sealing can "fix" these, I would still be hesitant to actually call them true cysts, at least the kinds I am familiar working with. Typically they need to excised to fully get rid of them. However, these are inverts we are talking about here, not mammals, so a cyst could very well present differently and be treated differently, there is so litle we know about tarantula health. 

I find this sort of stuff absolutely fascinating, given my training and profession. We may not have answers right now, but the speculation and attempts made at healing stuff like this are great and will hopefully give us answers one day.

Also, it may not be a cyst OR a hernia. There are many other growths that mammals can get, so while we don't know for sure, I would think it's possible with tarantulas as well. Just an afterthought I had.


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## Comatose (Dec 14, 2011)

mmfh said:


> Just curious, if a person was going to try to figure out what one of these growths were and had a willing vet..... Would u get an x-ray or a sonagram ?


Another member who lost a T. stirmi (sp?) the same way had an x-ray done... it didn't seem to show much. I'd be curious if a sonagram would do better, or perhaps just a biopsy.



Shell said:


> I find this sort of stuff absolutely fascinating, given my training and profession. We may not have answers right now, but the speculation and attempts made at healing stuff like this are great and will hopefully give us answers one day.


I couldn't agree more!


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## Shell (Dec 14, 2011)

Comatose said:


> Another member who lost a T. stirmi (sp?) the same way had an x-ray done... it didn't seem to show much. I'd be curious if a sonagram would do better, or perhaps just a biopsy.


I really don't think a sonogram would show us much. The xrays really didn't  either, although they were pretty cool to see.

I would be VERY curious as to sending samples in for biopsy, that *could* potentially give us some answers...Hmmm, now I want to see if I can get my hands on something like this to send in to the lab we deal with here. I know many people there, and I'm sure they would "humour" me and see what a biopsy had to say.


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## Comatose (Dec 14, 2011)

Shell said:


> I would be VERY curious as to sending samples in for biopsy, that *could* potentially give us some answers...Hmmm, now I want to see if I can get my hands on something like this to send in to the lab we deal with here. I know many people there, and I'm sure they would "humour" me and see what a biopsy had to say.


If you could I think that could be pretty huge. Would you be able to get your hands on a specimen?


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## Shell (Dec 14, 2011)

Comatose said:


> If you could I think that could be pretty huge. Would you be able to get your hands on a specimen?


I don't know, I would imagine we wouldn't be able to ship across borders even if it was a sample/dead specimen, so I would need to see if anyone in Canada has one that would be willing to experiment with us lol. Be pretty cool to see if anything showed up that indicated any kind of known health condition.


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## Necromion (Dec 14, 2011)

Shell I don't know if this is even remotly the same thing but I have a E. truculentus who has a similar growth on the ventral portion of its abdomen. she has molted recently and seems healthy over all but the "bulge" hasn't gone away with the molt, which you can see in the pics. But it is all possible that this could affect more species then just theraphosa. 
*growth before molt*



*molt*




*growth after molt*






As you can see it is an obvious bulge or cyst but the T herself is as far as I can tell healthy.


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## Shell (Dec 14, 2011)

That is really interesting  thanks for sharing. It looks different then the "cysts" we see in Theraphosa, and sort of reminds me a little bit of a hernia, however if it was a hernia I really can't see the spider making it through the molt with no complications.

Very interesting regardless of what it is though, and just makes me want to investigate even more, these sort of growths in tarantulas.


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## 1hughjazzspider (Dec 14, 2011)

Necromion, how thoroughly did you examine it's molt? From the looks of it it was definitely still attached to the molt itself. What did the growth itself feel like in the molt? Now idk much about the anatomy of any animal but the fact that it stayed on the T after the molt leads me to believe that it obviously has to be something internal. Perhaps it could be some form of cancer or tumor possibly???


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## Necromion (Dec 14, 2011)

yeah I've been trying to figure out what it is since I picked up the T, and so far haven't been able to find out anything as to its cause and what not. I have seen bald spots form in this area before but this is a little extreme for just a bald spot.

its possible that it could be a benign tumor or somthing along those lines, and I really dont want to kill an otherwise healthy animal to discover the cause.


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## Formerphobe (Dec 15, 2011)

> ...differences between a cyst and a hernia,* those aren't the only growths that animals can get *though. My point was that *we really don't know what these growths on tarantulas are, we are calling them cysts, but we don't actually know that. We also don't know if they are the same thing on every spider*, they may be but they may not be.
> 
> I may be missing something, but has anyone tried draining one on a spider? If they have, then yes, cyst would definitely be my thought, but again they may not be the same on every spider. Also *many tumors and benign masses contain fluids that can be drained, but that doesn't get rid of them.* Also, typically just draining a cyst doesn't get rid of it, they *will usually come back if not properly removed/repaired*.


Bingo! These 'lesions' are very likely different things on different individuals.  

The photos Joe posted of his boehmei(?) appeared to be a defect in the developing exoskeleton, so that when she molted her entrails herniated through the defect.
When I dissected the rosea I had with the 'cyst' at her pedicle, the fluid filled lesion communicated to the abdominal cavity, but did not have an encapsulating wall, nor did it seem to be attached to any organs.  In a mammal, I would have described it as a seroma, which generally arises as a result of an injury.

As of ~2006, there was no documentation of cancers in tarantulas, but that doesn't mean it doesn't occur.  "_(Frye 1992)...illustration of a possible neoplasm may be a melanization reaction to an injury or infection._" (Invertebrate Medicine, Gregory Lewbart; Chapter 10 'Spiders', Romain Pizzi; pg 160)

Radiographs have not proven very beneficial in tarantulas.  

There *are* veterinarians out there who practice spider medicine, limited as it is due to the nature of the patients.  They do tend to be few and far between, and the majority seem to be in Europe.  Last I communicated with him, Dr. Romain Pizzi, of the Royal Zoological Society, was working on updating his spider chapter for the new edition of _Invertebrate Medicine_.  If that tome has been published, it may yield some info.

When sending something for pathology, the pathologist needs to be well-versed in what they are looking at or for.  The average veterinary pathologist would be generally clueless, though they could identify bacteria, fungi, etc.


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## Ultum4Spiderz (Dec 15, 2011)

Necromion said:


> yeah I've been trying to figure out what it is since I picked up the T, and so far haven't been able to find out anything as to its cause and what not. I have seen bald spots form in this area before but this is a little extreme for just a bald spot.
> 
> its possible that it could be a benign tumor or somthing along those lines, and I really dont want to kill an otherwise healthy animal to discover the cause.


Very interesting.. I sure hope my Ts got a chance of surviving this molt... I hate watching my Ts die..  
the survival rate of T stirmis with cysts is too low though  though it hasnt been documented much..  except by Rob C & a few others


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## Necromion (Dec 15, 2011)

Well, I hate to say it but your at the point I was at and am still at, you have to play the waiting game. Sucks but there isn't much you can do except for keep the right conditions and play the waiting game.


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## Shell (Dec 15, 2011)

Formerphobe said:


> When sending something for pathology, the pathologist needs to be well-versed in what they are looking at or for.  The average veterinary pathologist would be generally clueless, though they could identify bacteria, fungi, etc.


Absolutely true. Here we send a report with the sample, detailing where it came from, what is presented as etc etc. You guys probably do the same thing, anyway my point (yes I had one lol,) is just that if a sample was sent in with as much detail as possible, it's possible they would be able to identify bacteria, fungi etc as you said, and give an opinion based on those findings, I understand they would be pretty clueless, but they may have some thoughts on it, even if it's not any kind of diagnosis. Since I have contacts at the lab, I figured it could be a fun experiment, since I know they would do it, and it wouldn't be wasting anyones time. 

It still isn't going to tell us a whole lot, but something I would be curious to try, just to see if we can get some other ideas/opinions. However, again the problem lies in that these growths are not probably the same in every spider.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Comatose (Dec 15, 2011)

Shell said:


> I don't know, I would imagine we wouldn't be able to ship across borders even if it was a sample/dead specimen, so I would need to see if anyone in Canada has one that would be willing to experiment with us lol. Be pretty cool to see if anything showed up that indicated any kind of known health condition.


If one can be found I have a buddy that can *legally* get it into Canada. He's in Toronto and he could ship it to you. He imports sharks, so I'm assuming that a spider wouldn't be an issue for him, and he actually owes me a favor 



Necromion said:


> yeah I've been trying to figure out what it is since I picked up the T, and so far haven't been able to find out anything as to its cause and what not. I have seen bald spots form in this area before but this is a little extreme for just a bald spot.
> 
> its possible that it could be a benign tumor or somthing along those lines, and I really dont want to kill an otherwise healthy animal to discover the cause.


You should hang on to the spider after it dies (in a very long, long time) and see if there's anyone willing to do a necropsy/biopsy (I'm probably usings one or both of those words in the wrong context). It certainly looks different than what's affecting Theraphosa.

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## ijmccollum (Dec 15, 2011)

Necromion said:


> its possible that it could be a benign tumor or somthing along those lines, and I really dont want to kill an otherwise healthy animal to discover the cause.


I def would not euthanize a spider that seems to do be doing well just for a biopsy -- let it run its course.  Careful monitoring would be best.  If things really go south, necropsy could be quite helpful in better understanding these conditions.  And what I mean by "these conditions" is it would take more than one T and one necropsy.

We have a vet/pathologist on staff, he's a far cry from a insect/arachnid specialist but he's a great guy and probably would humor me.

On a side note:  I would like to poll -- maybe this isn't the best place but; I maintain several diff spc of exotics and they require a gutload w/high Ca.  Ca is not good for T's so I do not offer the feeders that I do my other animals.  The feeders either go on a purge diet and then gutloaded specific for T's or I maintain a diff group for T feeders.  What are you guys doing?

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## Delight (Dec 15, 2011)

Shell said:


> Thanks for sharing, I missed that.
> 
> If draining and sealing can "fix" these, I would still be hesitant to actually call them true cysts, at least the kinds I am familiar working with. Typically they need to excised to fully get rid of them. However, these are inverts we are talking about here, not mammals, so a cyst could very well present differently and be treated differently, there is so litle we know about tarantula health.
> 
> ...


Having studied tarantula anatomy I am lead to wonder if it is the equivalent of a hemotoma. If it is, draining could possibly solve it and prevent the fluid from becoming infected. The problem seems to be that tarantualas aren't very transparent about how they're feeling and they're fairly resistant to disease. 
It should be fairly easy to determine if it is haemolymph if the liquid were saved and observed under a microscope. 

Has anyone done a necropsy on one of the spiders who have died from one of these things (not to assume that all of them are the same)?

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## Ultum4Spiderz (Dec 16, 2011)

Bad news it just accepted a roach... so it hasnt even began pre-molt...
O well... just hope it has a good molt


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## advan (Dec 16, 2011)

Ultum4Spiderz said:


> Bad news it just accepted a roach... so it hasnt even began pre-molt...
> O well... just hope it has a good molt


I think the bad news is the keeper decided to feed even known he was advised multiple times not to.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Londoner (Dec 16, 2011)

Can I ask why you decided to feed it when you were advised not to?

Edit: advan beat me to it.

Reactions: Like 1


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## The_Dude (Dec 16, 2011)

hmmmmm....


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## Comatose (Dec 16, 2011)

advan said:


> I think the bad news is the keeper decided to feed even known he was advised multiple times not to.





Londoner said:


> Can I ask why you decided to feed it when you were advised not to?


I third this....


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## Shell (Dec 16, 2011)

I hate to sound mean but given who we're talking to here, are we really surpised that advice was ignored?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Comatose (Dec 16, 2011)

Shell said:


> I hate to sound mean but given who we're talking to here, are we really surpised that advice was ignored?


Honestly... yes. I like giving people the benefit of the doubt, and most people will rise to the occasion given the chance. Call me a cockeyed optimist, but I'm positively stupefied as to why OP would flat out ignore earnest advice he was given my multiple people.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shell (Dec 16, 2011)

Comatose said:


> Honestly... yes. I like giving people the benefit of the doubt, and most people will rise to the occasion given the chance. Call me a cockeyed optimist, but I'm positively stupefied as to why OP would flat out ignore earnest advice he was given my multiple people.


I like to give people the benefit of the doubt too, but in this case, with all the past posts and advice he's ignored, I can't say this one surprises me...I really wish it did.


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## 1hughjazzspider (Dec 16, 2011)

Shell said:


> I hate to sound mean but given who we're talking to here, are we really surpised that advice was ignored?



After the comment he posted yesterday(which the mods removed thankfully) nothing that he says will surprise me anymore. I totally lost all respect for him after that and will refuse to attempt to help him from now on.

---------- Post added 12-16-2011 at 01:20 PM ----------




Comatose said:


> Call me a cockeyed optimist



Ok will do, lol.


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## Comatose (Dec 16, 2011)

Shell said:


> I like to give people the benefit of the doubt too, but in this case, with all the past posts and advice he's ignored, I can't say this one surprises me...I really wish it did.


It's too bad... it would be a great opportunity to learn about the disease. At least the thread has provided us some great opportunities to discuss it, and hopefully the project we've discussed will pan out.



1hughjazzspider said:


> After the comment he posted yesterday(which the mods removed thankfully) nothing that he says will surprise me anymore. I totally lost all respect for him after that and will refuse to attempt to help him from now on.


I didn't see that one...



1hughjazzspider said:


> Ok will do, lol.


Oh man.... lol


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## Shell (Dec 16, 2011)

Comatose said:


> . At least the thread has provided us some great opportunities to discuss it, and hopefully the project we've discussed will pan out.


For sure, I'm quite excited to see what we can do with it! Oh btw, those links were a huge hit with my son, he took over my computer for a while, so thanks again.

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## Comatose (Dec 16, 2011)

I'm really glad to hear that! Seeing that white shark was such a great experience... I'm really glad he enjoyed it too


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## Shell (Dec 16, 2011)

Comatose said:


> I'm really glad to hear that! Seeing that white shark was such a great experience... I'm really glad he enjoyed it too


As I expected, he knew the correct names for all the sharks too, there's no stumping that kid. I'll stop derailing this thread now lol.


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## Comatose (Dec 16, 2011)

You derail it? It left the tracks, smashed into the side of a mountain and burst into flames a while ago, and I don't think you deserve credit

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## Shell (Dec 16, 2011)

Comatose said:


> You derail it? It left the tracks, smashed into the side of a mountain and burst into flames a while ago, and I don't think you deserve credit


Good point, I suppose I do not deserve the credit for it...I feel better now.


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## Ultum4Spiderz (Dec 16, 2011)

Comatose said:


> Honestly... yes. I like giving people the benefit of the doubt, and most people will rise to the occasion given the chance. Call me a cockeyed optimist, but I'm positively stupefied as to why OP would flat out ignore earnest advice he was given my multiple people.


Thiscordia the guy sold me the spider told me too feed it... I got the roach back so the spider couldnt eat it... although a dead roach.. Its too big of a hazard to allow the spider to eat it
Cannot risk the abdomen ruptoring --- I didnt allow the spider to eat the roach I was just testing too see of it was still eating.. fed the roach to a different T
Updated pics ---





Cyst seems to have gotten a Tad bit larger.. since first pics


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## The_Dude (Dec 16, 2011)

You're saying you withdrew a roach from a full grown stirmi?

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## Shell (Dec 16, 2011)

Looks to me like the growth has increased in size from the last pics.

What was the point of "testing" to see if the spider would eat? There is no reason, when it's pre molt, it's pre molt...


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## Thiscordia (Dec 16, 2011)

When I sold the about a month and a half ago didn't seem to have this cyst and I was contacted about it later in order not to deal with this type of situations I had offered reimbursement for it. When I had the stirmi she was eating and behaving healthy.


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## peterock44 (Dec 16, 2011)

i dont think anyone here is doubting your honesty or business practices here thiscordia.  the op clearly likes dropping your name (as the seller) to deflect from the nonsense that he posts.  i honestly can hardly even understand what he is trying to say most of the time.  anyone else reminded of a very similar poster named smallera?

now on topic.  stop trying to figure out if it's in premolt when the t in question clearly is not......heed the experienced keepers advice and stop feeding.  look at the abdomen on that thing, it clearly wont starve if you hold off feeding for awhile

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## Anastasia (Dec 16, 2011)

Comatose said:


> This was a little earlier in the thread, though I'm not clear on whether is was an actual cyst, or something that formed as a result of a wound. Regardless, he successfully lanced it, drained it and sealed it, and the spider apparently survived.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDXSGyM9ypI&feature=player_embedded


That spider didnt make trough following molt is much is I know, I think there is thread here on AB about it.


I had my share of experience of dealing with  Theraposa abdominal protrusions. 
I had one that I didn't think will make trough the upcoming molt. I took pictures and decide to experiment with that specimen, I had nothing to loose.
Kept her underfed (I don't believe in overfeeding is could be healthy for them),  in semi dry and very well ventilated  inclosure (to avoid any possible future fungal problems)  with water-dish available and always full.

Treated protrusion twice a month with Iodine (purpose: disinfectant and anti fungal) 
Specimen molted with no problems, protrusion shrunk and barely visible. I keep an eye on this one till next molt. I Am expecting she will molt it completely out.
I will post pictures is soon I will be able to.

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## Hobo (Dec 16, 2011)

I'm fairly sure that last post about taking away the food item was a lie, but just in case....

Feeding a roach that another T was already feeding on is a stupid thing to do. What if whatever is ailing your blondi is contagious? Even if it wasn't sick, I'd still avoid feeding something that's been in another tarantulas' enclosure to a different one, just in case it brings something over, parasite or otherwise.

I can't wait to see how you back peddle out of this one.

Reactions: Like 2


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## 1hughjazzspider (Dec 16, 2011)

Hobo said:


> I can't wait to see how you back peddle out of this one.



With another pointless and idiotic post duh.


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## grayzone (Dec 16, 2011)

lol... good point hobo. i cant wait either


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## Shell (Dec 16, 2011)

Thiscordia said:


> When I sold the about a month and a half ago didn't seem to have this cyst and I was contacted about it later in order not to deal with this type of situations I had offered reimbursement for it. When I had the stirmi she was eating and behaving healthy.


Don't worry, I really doubt, given the OP and past history, that anyone here has any doubt about your integrity as a seller. 

Edit* Hobo, I am also looking forward to the backpeddling regarding taking a roach away from the spider.


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## jayefbe (Dec 16, 2011)

Hobo said:


> I'm fairly sure that last post about taking away the food item was a lie, but just in case....


Yup. He says something wrong and then pretends he knew it was wrong all along. I like how we talk about him like he doesn't understand. Like a child in the room.

Ultum - We all told you it wasn't in pre-molt. Learn to actually care for your spiders for a change, instead of just buying everything you can find and then hoping someone else teaches you how to care for them.

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## Ultum4Spiderz (Dec 17, 2011)

jayefbe said:


> Yup. He says something wrong and then pretends he knew it was wrong all along. I like how we talk about him like he doesn't understand. Like a child in the room.
> 
> Ultum - We all told you it wasn't in pre-molt. Learn to actually care for your spiders for a change, instead of just buying everything you can find and then hoping someone else teaches you how to care for them.


Blame the seller he told menot was in pre molt
It's not my fault I got a T with a cyst....you couldn't see it in the pics
He shipped it without any heat. Cold cold coulda triggered cyst


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## 19tarantula91 (Dec 17, 2011)

Ultum4Spiderz said:


> Blame the seller he told menot was in pre molt
> I took perfect care of the spider it seems happy,,
> It's not my fault I got a T with a cyst....you couldn't see it in the pics
> He shipped it without any heat. Cold cold coulda triggered cyst


Umm... How did it seem happy? The tarantula doesn't display emotion.... 

Ultum people are getting sick and tired of your ignorant posts... You need to grow up.

Reactions: Like 1


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## 1hughjazzspider (Dec 17, 2011)

Shell said:


> Don't worry, I really doubt, given the OP and past history, that anyone here has any doubt about your integrity as a seller.
> 
> Edit* Hobo, I am also looking forward to the backpeddling regarding taking a roach away from the spider.





19tarantula91 said:


> Umm... How did it seem happy? The tarantula doesn't display emotion....
> 
> Ultum people are getting sick and tired of your ignorant posts... You need to grow up.



He edited out the happy part.


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## Tann (Dec 17, 2011)

Ultum4Spiderz said:


> Blame the seller he told menot was in pre molt
> It's not my fault I got a T with a cyst....you couldn't see it in the pics
> He shipped it without any heat. Cold cold coulda triggered cyst


I don't understand why you feel the need to put someone at fault. A T. developing an abnormal growth, or a cyst, isn't necessarily an indication someone did something wrong. It could be, but as far as I know the discussion in this thread has mostly been about the experience of other keepers, and speculation as to what they actually are and possible treatment for one. 

You originally posted this in order to get some advice, right? You should probably just read what has been offered to you, and stop throwing your seller under the bus every chance you get.

Reactions: Like 1


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## 19tarantula91 (Dec 17, 2011)

Haha that cracks me up he edited out his T being happy!  jeeze... some people. I feel bad for the seller having to deal with this. May this be a lesson to everyone else not to sell to Ultum.


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## Ultum4Spiderz (Dec 17, 2011)

since no one knows whys cyst's develope I truly cannot blame anyone I get that... clearly as negative as it sounds the spider has a Very small chance of survival as the cyst is slowly growing Larger....
The seller is obviously a good guy... Im not trying to insult him in anyway...

19tarantula91 im sure you would luv it if someone sold you a T that arrived with a cyst..
this is the only transaction I have been angry about everything else has been fine.... dono what your rambling on about


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## Tann (Dec 17, 2011)

Ultum4Spiderz said:


> since no one knows whys cyst's develope I truly cannot blame anyone I get that... clearly as negative as it sounds the spider has a Very small chance of survival as the cyst is slowly growing Larger....
> The seller is obviously a good guy... Im not trying to insult him in anyway...


I'm not sure I always catch on to your intention of the piece-summary of what other posters have already told you, but you might want to consider admitting when you're wrong, and, in this case, apologizing to the person you've insulted, whether intentional or not.

There's no need to flame him. I'm sure he recognizes he's made a mistake with what he's said. I realize that this situation is basically a repeat of many others, though I think preaching some tolerance would serve the hobby well. That way perhaps the same will happen for us if we were to misstep.

Anyway, if all this is ignored, nothing changes, and something like this comes up yet again then so be it. I'd have nothing to say about what may or may not transpire in such a thread, but at least he got one last chance.

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## jayefbe (Dec 17, 2011)

Ultum4Spiderz said:


> Blame the seller he told menot was in pre molt
> It's not my fault I got a T with a cyst....you couldn't see it in the pics
> He shipped it without any heat. Cold cold coulda triggered cyst


Blame the seller? For what? For feeding a T that everyone has told you NOT to feed. You even said that you were being stupid for feeding it, and then you feed it AGAIN?!?!? Then you make up an excuse that you "fed" it to see if it was in pre-molt or not? Everyone has already said there is nothing to indicate she is in pre-molt. If you actually knew a thing or two about keeping tarantulas, you would know that too.

Cold triggering a cyst? Is there any evidence of that?

Maybe the T doesn't like your deodorant, it coulda triggered cyst. Heat heat coulda triggered cyst. Bad teeleveision coulda triggered cyst. 

It's not your fault you got a T with a cyst, but it is your fault that you continue to blame it on the seller (not his fault, there likely wasn't a noticeable cyst when he sent it!) and you've continued to feed it against everyone's advice. Just own up, admit you're wrong and try to do better.

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## 19tarantula91 (Dec 17, 2011)

Ultum4Spiderz said:


> since no one knows whys cyst's develope I truly cannot blame anyone I get that... clearly as negative as it sounds the spider has a Very small chance of survival as the cyst is slowly growing Larger....
> The seller is obviously a good guy... Im not trying to insult him in anyway...
> 
> 19tarantula91 im sure you would luv it if someone sold you a T that arrived with a cyst..
> this is the only transaction I have been angry about everything else has been fine.... dono what your rambling on about



I'm sure that if the same thing happened to me from the exact same seller I would be handling it a lot more mature then you, and the seller would understand and send me a different T or make it right somehow. You can't expect people to treat you right when all you wanna do is point fingers on a forum at someone other then you.


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## Shell (Dec 17, 2011)

Ultum4Spiderz said:


> this is the only transaction I have been angry about everything else has been fine....


The thing is, you don't really have a right to be angry. This is a risk you take when you purchase ANY live animal, be it a spider or a dog. It is NOT the sellers fault, and it sounds like he is being more than fair and reasonable in dealing with this issue.

Things like this can come up suddenly, we don't know what causes them. It's understandable to be disappointed, but anger over this? You buy live animals you will always be taking a small gamble, no matter how reputable a person you're dealing with.

Reactions: Like 1


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## billopelma (Dec 18, 2011)

...yet another addition to my growing list of people not to sell to...





Bill


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## Ultum4Spiderz (Dec 18, 2011)

billopelma said:


> ...yet another addition to my growing list of people not to sell to...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thats great so your blaiming me for getting a T with a cyst?>??
odds are its not my fault, or the sellers fault... He took pics of it before he sent it.. the cyst wasnt there til the T arrived

Cleary the USPS guys were playing catch with it :: Dosnt matter the T is obviously the loser in this situation....poor T stirmi


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## Transient (Dec 18, 2011)

Ultum4Spiderz said:


> Thats great so your blaiming me for getting a T with a cyst?>??
> odds are its not my fault, or the sellers fault... He took pics of it before he sent it.. the cyst wasnt there til the T arrived
> 
> Cleary the USPS guys were playing catch with it :: Dosnt matter the T is obviously the loser in this situation....poor T stirmi


I think you indirectly answered your own question.


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## 19tarantula91 (Dec 18, 2011)

Ultum4Spiderz said:


> Thats great so your blaiming me for getting a T with a cyst?>??
> odds are its not my fault, or the sellers fault... He took pics of it before he sent it.. the cyst wasnt there til the T arrived
> 
> Cleary the USPS guys were playing catch with it :: Dosnt matter the T is obviously the loser in this situation....poor T stirmi


Wow? now it's the usps guys fault? Dude... Own up.


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## Hornets inverts (Dec 18, 2011)

Ultum4Spiderz said:


> Thats great so your blaiming me for getting a T with a cyst?>??
> odds are its not my fault, or the sellers fault... He took pics of it before he sent it.. the cyst wasnt there til the T arrived
> 
> Cleary the USPS guys were playing catch with it :: Dosnt matter the T is obviously the loser in this situation....poor T stirmi


Bill isnt blaming you for the cyst, no one is, but you constantly bringing up the sellers name, saying he sent you a t with a cyst, that your angry with the transaction, your blaming the seller for doing nothing wrong. No one is going to want to sell to you if they know what your like in situations like this.

As everyone else has said, there is no indication your t is in premoult, why the need to "test" it? Not exactly an accurate test as t's can continue feeding right up untill they moult, all through the premoult stage.

You really need to just stop posting, stop showing the world what an idiot you are. I woud suggest doing some real research before you post any more idiotic questions, but you have made it quite obvious you lack the capacity to learn or take good advice from anyone here. Why do you even bother posting then? It doesnt do you or your t's any good.


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## venom81 (Dec 18, 2011)

i think its my fault for reading the thread...so there you dont have to blame anybody else, i was just trying to learn if draining the cyst with a syringe would work or are you planning on letting it grow till the t dies.But before deciding to go either way you should check if theres other options,these is were you should take peoples advice here there trying to help, but you got to help them help you.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Hobo (Dec 18, 2011)

There's no one to blame, so stop trying.
Nobody even knows specifically how these problems arise.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shell (Dec 18, 2011)

Hobo said:


> Nobody even knows specifically how these problems arise.


I have tried telling him this numerous times (he sent me a PM about this all too,) and quite honestly, it's like talking to the wall....you can repeat yourself over and over but he just only takes what he wants to take from what you said, even if it's completely wrong.

Ultum, it's not the fault of the post office, don't you get it? It's nobodies fault! This is a live animal, and these "growths" do tend to be somewhat common with this Genus. As I've already told you, nobody can say why this happened or what caused it, but this is a risk you take when you purchase a live animal.

I don't want to be mean, but I am getting seriously sick of your crap. Stop posting, start reading....Ugh I sound like a broken record.


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## Comatose (Dec 18, 2011)

Anastasia said:


> That spider didnt make trough following molt is much is I know, I think there is thread here on AB about it.
> 
> 
> I had my share of experience of dealing with  Theraposa abdominal protrusions.
> ...


This is some awesome information Anastasia... please keep us all up to date on the outcome. Very interesting and well thought out treatment method.



billopelma said:


> ...yet another addition to my growing list of people not to sell to...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have a simple solution to this issue...  :tongue:


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## BrettG (Dec 18, 2011)

Interesting...Possibly fungal???


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## Comatose (Dec 18, 2011)

I spoke with Rob about Zilla; it appears at least in his case it was a cyst; fluid formed in a bubble between the current molt and a new one. It seems to be what we're dealing with here, and it seems like that's what Anastasia is working with now. I'm very eager to see what the outcome is; this could be a great step in the right direction.


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## ZergFront (Dec 18, 2011)

OOOOH! I was about to reply with a quote to your other one on where he said that.

 I really need to get to threads on time.

 I'd give an exotic vet a shot. They have access to Co2 and other equipment that may help. Not sure how much it would help since I never had giant ones and this is one of the reasons why..



Formerphobe said:


> Bingo!
> As of ~2006, there was no documentation of cancers in tarantulas, but that doesn't mean it doesn't occur.  "_(Frye 1992)...illustration of a possible neoplasm may be a melanization reaction to an injury or infection._" (Invertebrate Medicine, Gregory Lewbart; Chapter 10 'Spiders', Romain Pizzi; pg 160)
> 
> 
> ...


 Fudgicles! I looked for that book on Amazon just now. Over $120! :*-(


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## Earth Tiger (Dec 18, 2011)

Given these expensive rare T species like Theraphosa and P. metallica are frequently inbred, I guess genetic reasons are one of the plausible causes, apart from the disease routes you folks are exploring. One well known example demonstrating the adverse effects of inbreeding in the pet trade are the poor australian budgies. They have a much shorter life expectancy than their wild cousins because they are prone to cancers due to inbreeding. 

Ultum, no one knows the underlying reasons for these cysts and no one and nothing are to be blamed yet. You are angry and want to blame someone because you think your Ts are some heroes and you think heroes can't have problems. If they have problems someone must be responsible. Try to accept that Ts are just inverts and your T can have problems itself. In fact superheroes like spiderman and mr incredible have their problems too.  Some people are born with inherited diseases, and perhaps your T. stirmi has inherited defects too. So you can't even blame any fungus or bacteria in that case. You need to bare in mind that natural selection works no more in the pet trade, especially for expensive species like yours. In the wild only a few T. stirmi slings from an egg sac can make their way to adulthood, but in pet trade all T. stirmi slings will likely get 10" big, and they are inbred to get more offsprings. If you really want to blame something perhaps it is the hobby that is at faults. Will you quit this hobby? Certainly not, so please don't blame anyone or anything anymore. If all T. stirmi had been WC they would have become extinct in the wild. Nothing in this world is perfect. Successful people like Donald Trump don't complain here and there.


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## Formerphobe (Dec 18, 2011)

> I'd give an exotic vet a shot. They have access to Co2 and other equipment that may help.


I don't know any who use CO2, but Isofluorane (and I believe Sevofluorane, as well) has been successfully used as an anesthetic agent in tarantulas.  And they do have a wealth of other miniscule equipment for tiny critters.  



> Fudgicles! I looked for that book on Amazon just now. Over $120! :*-(


I caught a real deal on it a couple of years ago when I was still eligible for a student discount on top of the sale.  It's the old edition though...  



> They have a much shorter life expectancy than their wild cousins because they are prone to cancers due to inbreeding.


In addition to propagating "cancer genes" by inbreeding, captive bred and kept specimens of all species experience increased cancer rates due to the chemicals and indoor pollution they're exposed to in captivity.



> In the wild only a few T. stirmi slings from an egg sac can make their way to adulthood


+1


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## jayefbe (Dec 19, 2011)

Earth Tiger said:


> Given these expensive rare T species like Theraphosa and P. metallica are frequently inbred, I guess genetic reasons are one of the plausible causes, apart from the disease routes you folks are exploring. One well known example demonstrating the adverse effects of inbreeding in the pet trade are the poor australian budgies. They have a much shorter life expectancy than their wild cousins because they are prone to cancers due to inbreeding.


As far as I can tell, every adult Theraphosa stirmi sold in the US has been wild-caught. In which case, they would be the least likely species to have suffered from inbreeding. I don't know if inbreeding does have negative effects in some tarantulas, but after 9+ generations of inbreeding, Garrick's OBTs are still going strong. That's a sizable enough sample size and enough generations to conclude that at least in Pterinochilus murinus there is very likely no significant inbreeding depression.


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## Earth Tiger (Dec 19, 2011)

Formerphobe said:


> In addition to propagating "cancer genes" by inbreeding, captive bred and kept specimens of all species experience increased cancer rates due to the chemicals and indoor pollution they're exposed to in captivity.


Despite the pollution problems, most domesticated pets actually enjoy longer lifespans than their wild cousins which easily die from accidents, predation, diseases and starvation. Pets don't suffer from these and that's why Macaws can live up to 60-80 years in captivity but their lifespan reduces at least by half in the wild. Tarantulas are expected to live longer in captivity too, unless its owner feeds them pesticides polluted roaches or takes it for a bath. 



jayefbe said:


> As far as I can tell, every adult Theraphosa stirmi sold in the US has been wild-caught. In which case, they would be the least likely species to have suffered from inbreeding. I don't know if inbreeding does have negative effects in some tarantulas, but after 9+ generations of inbreeding, Garrick's OBTs are still going strong. That's a sizable enough sample size and enough generations to conclude that at least in Pterinochilus murinus there is very likely no significant inbreeding depression.


I see. I am not an expert of T. stirmi and I haven't got one yet, so lets see if any T. stirmi expert will shed light on its origin. Last time when I talked to Dr Shuker many years ago, he mentioned that every single one of millions of pet golden hamsters around the world before 1971 had descended from only 4 individuals, and millions of these hamsters all appeared normal without any sign of inbreeding problems. Since 1971 twelve more WC individuals were added to the gene pool. 

So sometimes it is a matter of luck, like the golden hamster case the few WC OBTs used for CB probably did not carry any recessive disease linked gene, and so no inbreeding depression is seen. But that's not the case for the poor pet budgies.

Reactions: Like 2


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## ijmccollum (Dec 19, 2011)

Finally, this thread is taking a sane direction!  Thank you Sun Tiger.

Is this condition specific to T. stirmi or does it present in other Theraphosa, or even other larger T's?

Before anyone answers, maybe this thread should be abandoned and another started that specifically addresses the lumps and bumps that occur in spiders.  I nominate Anastasia since she is already actively looking at this.


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## Jon3800 (Dec 19, 2011)

ijmccollum said:


> Finally, this thread is taking a sane direction!  Thank you Sun Tiger.
> 
> Is this condition specific to T. stirmi or does it present in other Theraphosa, or even other larger T's?
> 
> Before anyone answers, maybe this thread should be abandoned and another started that specifically addresses the lumps and bumps that occur in spiders.  I nominate Anastasia since she is already actively looking at this.


I could very well present in others members.   We don't see  much T.blondi and apophysis these days...they're  rare to get ahold of one.  I have a  mature pair of T.stirmi and they don't have cysts yet.


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## Ultum4Spiderz (Dec 19, 2011)

yeah im sorry I played the Blame game.. clearly its no ones fault & T stirmis are known for cysts apearing for no reason
Ill try to take more advice & listen to people more often..Feeding the T was a Bad idea
One thing is certain.. We need to eventualy figure out the cause & a Treatment for T stirmi's it sucks having a T that you know is going to die...
clearly cysts are not as Fatal as DKS... and we have some shot at saving Ts with proper..treatment 
Judging from what Anastasia has accomplished-- in the future maybe we can Cure.. or save more Ts with cysts:biggrin:


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## vickywild (Dec 19, 2011)

Not trying to be nasty, but do you own a tarantula with no health problems? Perhaps its time to start looking at your set ups/the heat in your house? 

I'm worried for the wee craters!


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## esotericman (Dec 21, 2011)

What comes up over and over, and all of the threads here, and other the plethora of other sites have not been reviewed was the one thing Anastasia did, she stopped feeding or slowed it way down.  This allows the damaged "machinery" of the molting process to work more slowly, which often leads to molting out of the problem or lessening it.  The cause of these problems is known, it's damage during the molt cycle, which could be from rapid growth, or physical injury (falling, being shipped).  Either way, you have layers of the exoskeleton damaged, and the system must patch those weak points.  Feeding overly much just adds fat to the animal which speeds up the molting process.  The anti-fungals are useless as many of these "cysts" appear to have surface fungus on them, which is the thin exoskeleton becoming sclerified in spots.  These spots look like fungus, but are not.  Save yourself and the animal a lot of stress, and skill that step.

It has not been conclusively demonstrated that tarantulas can shrink between molts, but it is seen in many arthropods.  Regardless, we need to get out of the mind set that we need to feed these animals to help them heal.  

To the OP, slow down or stop the feeding.  Offer a varied diet of many insects when you do feed, and keep the water available and the lower substrate damp.  Maybe, if given enough time to correct the internal problems, you might see a reduced injury over the next molt.  I'd continue this care for a few years, and do not attempt to breed this animal.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Earth Tiger (Dec 21, 2011)

esotericman thank you for shedding light on this topic. Could you also provide some references for your points (e.g. books or researchers citations)? Is it your own observation and experience? Don't get me wrong I am not here to challenge you but apparently the cyst problems have been discussed here extensively and nobody including many experienced breeders got any answer. The affected Ts in almost all similar threads faced the same fate and no one could offer any help to save them. Please kindly provide more information as your explanations can save lots of Ts with similar problems in the future and* I suggest the moderator to put a sticky post here.*


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## Ultum4Spiderz (Dec 21, 2011)

esotericman said:


> What comes up over and over, and all of the threads here, and other the plethora of other sites have not been reviewed was the one thing Anastasia did, she stopped feeding or slowed it way down.  This allows the damaged "machinery" of the molting process to work more slowly, which often leads to molting out of the problem or lessening it.  The cause of these problems is known, it's damage during the molt cycle, which could be from rapid growth, or physical injury (falling, being shipped).  Either way, you have layers of the exoskeleton damaged, and the system must patch those weak points.  Feeding overly much just adds fat to the animal which speeds up the molting process.  The anti-fungals are useless as many of these "cysts" appear to have surface fungus on them, which is the thin exoskeleton becoming sclerified in spots.  These spots look like fungus, but are not.  Save yourself and the animal a lot of stress, and skill that step.
> 
> It has not been conclusively demonstrated that tarantulas can shrink between molts, but it is seen in many arthropods.  Regardless, we need to get out of the mind set that we need to feed these animals to help them heal.
> 
> To the OP, slow down or stop the feeding.  Offer a varied diet of many insects when you do feed, and keep the water available and the lower substrate damp.  Maybe, if given enough time to correct the internal problems, you might see a reduced injury over the next molt.  I'd continue this care for a few years, and do not attempt to breed this animal.


Great post 
care to talk more about how I can save my spider?? that would be thanked !


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## 19tarantula91 (Dec 21, 2011)

Ultum4Spiderz said:


> Great post
> care to talk more about how I can save my spider?? that would be thanked !



We have tried and you don't care nor take our advice.


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## LucasNorth (Dec 21, 2011)

Its a shame that there isn't more info, if the cyst is indeed liquid filled perhaps its molting fluid?


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## ijmccollum (Dec 21, 2011)

WoW esotericman, that was quite the reply!  I too, would like some more info on how you conclude "known reason" and sclerification as result of exoskeletal damage.  It would be great to have better understanding and info available to those in the hobby.


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## Shell (Dec 21, 2011)

ijmccollum said:


> WoW esotericman, that was quite the reply!  I too, would like some more info on how you conclude "known reason" and sclerification as result of exoskeletal damage.


Agreed, it would be very interesting to hear more about this.


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## Kungfujoe (Dec 21, 2011)

Thanks for your informative post, I too will watch for more information concerning this problem. Also does anyone think it could be internal parasites from eating prey in the wild. I learned from a college bio class that a form of tape worm can enter the body from eating snails or eating the grass a snail pooped on. The normal host, if my memory serves right are raccoons but sometimes find their way in the human body by digestion. It also stated that some of these can enter the brain insted of the intended lungs and cause a cyst in the brain. I think there was also a video on this on a show called, "Eaten Alive" or was it "Bein Eaten Alive." Just a something I thought about while reading everyones input on the matter.


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## Comatose (Dec 21, 2011)

Me too; excellent post!


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## Hornets inverts (Dec 21, 2011)

Kungfujoe said:


> Thanks for your informative post, I too will watch for more information concerning this problem. Also does anyone think it could be internal parasites from eating prey in the wild. I learned from a college bio class that a form of tape worm can enter the body from eating snails or eating the grass a snail pooped on. The normal host, if my memory serves right are raccoons but sometimes find their way in the human body by digestion. It also stated that some of these can enter the brain insted of the intended lungs and cause a cyst in the brain. I think there was also a video on this on a show called, "Eaten Alive" or was it "Bein Eaten Alive." Just a something I thought about while reading everyones input on the matter.


Rat lung worm is what your reffering to, nasty things,had it once but luckily only fairly minor


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## Earth Tiger (Dec 21, 2011)

Kungfujoe said:


> Thanks for your informative post, I too will watch for more information concerning this problem. Also does anyone think it could be internal parasites from eating prey in the wild. I learned from a college bio class that a form of tape worm can enter the body from eating snails or eating the grass a snail pooped on. The normal host, if my memory serves right are raccoons but sometimes find their way in the human body by digestion. It also stated that some of these can enter the brain insted of the intended lungs and cause a cyst in the brain. I think there was also a video on this on a show called, "Eaten Alive" or was it "Bein Eaten Alive." Just a something I thought about while reading everyones input on the matter.


That parasite uses snails as a secondary hosts to infect birds which are their primary hosts. Birds eat snails, but birds don't eat tarantulas and there is no reason for that parasite to evolve to infect Ts. Ts have their own parasites though.

Reactions: Like 1


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## esotericman (Dec 21, 2011)

OK.  As to the scleritization, review any macro-photos of any species of Theraphosa which has flicked all of it's setea off, they often have dark spots.  It does not spread, and does not change morphology when "treated", thus it must be part of the exoskeleton.  To test this, thin sections in paraffin or plastic must be made.  I have meant to give it a go, but time is always a limiting factor.  I absolutely LOVE that someone challenges what I say, and even asked for peer reviewed literature.  Sadly, even within our hobby this is such a minor issue, no one will do anything more than citizen science on the topic.  


As for the other questions, please hit these two threads:

http://atshq.org/boards/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19745
http://atshq.org/boards/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24782

http://thebts.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?4537-P-metallica-parasite-help

The BTS thread has an outstanding post:
http://thebts.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?4537-P-metallica-parasite-help&p=34532#post34532

Also, these threads will or should quell any discussions on possible parasites.  It's well and good to try and link what we know outside the hobby to the hobby, but there are very few parasites of tarantulas.  A few insects, a few nematode species... that's about it.

As the web of information spreads, I can not urge you strongly enough to NOT try to lance or drain the abscess/cyst/wound.  You'll see Ryan (talkenlate) did give it a go, but that was of little use to the animal, unless I missed a post.  I suspect someone will correct me if so.  Until then I have never read of any animal making it past the next molt after such a trauma.  Remember this is not only the part of the animal which keeps everything in and wet, but also is the structural components.  

It's pretty simple what's causing these problems, overfeeding, shipping, or falling.  We can not point at species, as it occurs in many, I've seen this in _Brachypelma, Avicularia, Theraphosa_, and _Poecilotheria_.

Reactions: Like 1


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## ijmccollum (Dec 21, 2011)

Interesting links but In the P.met....? Mybe I didn't read the thread right but was it determined to be due to injury or parasite? Was it ever resolved?

So your take on these "cycts" are trauma that occurs to the endocutile which results in mesocuticle protrusion and presents on the exocuticle?  I would be willing to say that it is due to cuticle damage but I don't know for sure.  I hope never to have the misfortune to experience this.

xhexdex's certainly looked herniated.

And you are right there is not alot peer reviewed papers out there -- I think I pulled up all of 33 articles in PubMed.

Oh! And are you talking histology with the paraffin?


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## Anastasia (Dec 22, 2011)

esotericman said:


> What comes up over and over, and all of the threads here, and other the plethora of other sites have not been reviewed was the one thing Anastasia did, she stopped feeding or slowed it way down.  This allows the damaged "machinery" of the molting process to work more slowly, which often leads to molting out of the problem or lessening it.  The cause of these problems is known, it's damage during the molt cycle, which could be from rapid growth, or physical injury (falling, being shipped).  Either way, you have layers of the exoskeleton damaged, and the system must patch those weak points.  Feeding overly much just adds fat to the animal which speeds up the molting process.  The anti-fungals are useless as many of these "cysts" appear to have surface fungus on them, which is the thin exoskeleton becoming sclerified in spots.  These spots look like fungus, but are not.  Save yourself and the animal a lot of stress, and skill that step.
> 
> It has not been conclusively demonstrated that tarantulas can shrink between molts, but it is seen in many arthropods.  Regardless, we need to get out of the mind set that we need to feed these animals to help them heal.
> 
> To the OP, slow down or stop the feeding.  Offer a varied diet of many insects when you do feed, and keep the water available and the lower substrate damp.  Maybe, if given enough time to correct the internal problems, you might see a reduced injury over the next molt.  I'd continue this care for a few years, and do not attempt to breed this animal.


Christian ,

I absolutely agree with you on greatest benefit of slowing down animals allowing repair damaged exo. I also witnessed that some don't gain growth and actually shrink.
But Am not so sure iodine is totally useless, I can not explain but there is have to be something to it, because when I worked with some animals with similar problems, very often those problem areas get infected and I ended up as an open wound that was allot worse to deal with.
And that is just my experience.

Right now Am working with something different, it is a fungal infection of abdomen that end up blistering (small blisters very similar to protrusion on T stirmi but smaller), Am pretty positive they developed in result of this fungal infection . I will probably start new tread and post pictures and progress.


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## Kungfujoe (Dec 22, 2011)

Whoa that is crazy, so that P. rufi survived but it left a scar. that p. Metallica is also has a lot more blue then my P. Metallica sling that's 2 inches ><. I wonder if he will do the surjury on his Metallica. Anyways gl on the problem with your T Anastasia.


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## Comatose (Dec 22, 2011)

Anastasia said:


> Christian ,
> 
> I absolutely agree with you on greatest benefit of slowing down animals allowing repair damaged exo. I also witnessed that some don't gain growth and actually shrink.
> But Am not so sure iodine is totally useless, I can not explain but there is have to be something to it, because when I worked with some animals with similar problems, very often those problem areas get infected and I ended up as an open wound that was allot worse to deal with.
> ...


Have you considered using a drying agent? Obviously, it's a completely different issue, but in humans there are acne like treatments to absorb the fluid inside small cysts. Perhaps this could work too? Just a thought.

I agree with you on the iodine, and I look forward to seeing your new thread.


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## esotericman (Dec 22, 2011)

Anastasia said:


> Right now Am working with something different, it is a fungal infection of abdomen that end up blistering (small blisters very similar to protrusion on T stirmi but smaller), Am pretty positive they developed in result of this fungal infection . I will probably start new tread and post pictures and progress.


Please do!  If you've had greater success with iodine (what percentage?), then you're not hurting anything by using it.  My concern was a pile of internet "information" leading to more stress on the animal, or wasted money and resources.

---------- Post added 12-22-2011 at 12:46 PM ----------




Comatose said:


> Have you considered using a drying agent? Obviously, it's a completely different issue, but in humans there are acne like treatments to absorb the fluid inside small cysts. Perhaps this could work too? Just a thought.
> 
> I agree with you on the iodine, and I look forward to seeing your new thread.


Drawing that amount of fluid through a water tight exoskeleton would take some serious dessication, and probably end up doing far more harm than good.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Comatose (Dec 22, 2011)

esotericman said:


> Drawing that amount of fluid through a water tight exoskeleton would take some serious dessication, and probably end up doing far more harm than good.


This is a good point... it would have to be done in conjunction with one of the sugical procedures discussed earlier in the thread and wouldn't be preferable to a non surgical solution.


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## Earth Tiger (Dec 23, 2011)

*Iodine?*

Folks, may I know the iodine you folks keep talking about is the iodine solution not some iodide salts dissolved in water as free ions? If it's iodine solution what percentage?


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## Ultum4Spiderz (Dec 23, 2011)

T stirmi update...pic's  .. the spider has been acting normal and fine..despite the cyst



Second pic looks worse because of a bad camera angle... I couldnt open the cage for pics for fear of stressing the spider
I need to figure out how to do what Anastasia did to hers & try to help out the cyst..
plan to not feed it anymore at all. for atleast 1-2 months ..its soo fat


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## esotericman (Jan 3, 2012)

What do you usually feed, what species or how many?


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## Anastasia (Jan 4, 2012)

Anastasia said:


> That spider didnt make trough following molt is much is I know, I think there is thread here on AB about it.
> 
> 
> I had my share of experience of dealing with  Theraposa abdominal protrusions.
> ...


Here is updated picture of same specimen after just one molt, I was amazed how well she respond to treatment, I Am looking forward to next molt and expect her to molt this problem totally off, see what a difference from firs picture, now this


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## ijmccollum (Jan 4, 2012)

That is freakin' awesome.  What % provodone did you use?


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## Anastasia (Jan 4, 2012)

ijmccollum said:


> That is freakin' awesome.  What % provodone did you use?


over the counter strength Iodine 10% first aid antiseptic solution.
I use 10%  (iodine dilute with saline solution in 1/2, just few drops will be enough. example 4 drops of 10% iodine + 4drops of saline solution) for first procedure, then 1/4 (iodine/ saline solution) for follow up, depend on outcome.
oh yes, get yourself q-tips and small pipette and gloves!

Anastasia


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## Comatose (Jan 4, 2012)

Congrats on that, looks like a good solution.


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## ijmccollum (Jan 4, 2012)

So X2 treatments, one at 5% and then follow up in two weeks with 2.5%.  Will you do a follow up on the the area that remains or just let her molt it out?  And "underfed" meaning....how often and how much?  Would love to see her final outcome.  Great work!


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## Anastasia (Jan 4, 2012)

ijmccollum said:


> So X2 treatments, one at 5% and then follow up in two weeks with 2.5%.  Will you do a follow up on the the area that remains or just let her molt it out?  And "underfed" meaning....how often and how much?  Would love to see her final outcome.  Great work!


follow up with treatment is many 1 to2 per month till molt time, if 6mo before molt could be 6 to 12 treatments depend on how bad the problem is.
feeding slow way down (also depend on the case and body weight, its a bit difficult to explain), the size of specimen on the picture just under 5", she only got 4 adult male B. lateralis roaches per month, 2 bi-weekly, skip last month, and she molted out with in 9 months ) 
Hydration is very important.


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## Ultum4Spiderz (Jan 4, 2012)

Mine is fat.. I cannot feed her for 2-3 months. if I even do again before she molts
cyst has stopped growing & seems to slowly been going down now  ... its still around the same size but is looking better

she tried climbing once & gave up cuz she was too fat too climb.. plus I wont allow such a heavy /bulky t to climb much


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## Ultum4Spiderz (Mar 2, 2013)

My female Molted and survived first molt with cyst , It now has a much smaller cyst :biggrin:
I do no know how long til its next molt , its not in pre-molt so probably 4 months-1 year

I will post pics sometime soon, of its current status


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## jakykong (Mar 2, 2013)

Ultum4Spiderz said:


> My female Molted and survived first molt with cyst , It now has a much smaller cyst :biggrin:
> I do no know how long til its next molt , its not in pre-molt so probably 4 months-1 year
> 
> I will post pics sometime soon, of its current status


It's always nice to hear good outcomes!


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## Pmurinushmacla (Oct 8, 2022)

Interesting thread, very similar issue, but I doubt I'd be able to get any sort of solution on a P. metallica, not that I even am sure I'd want to. Hopefully, since she is an arboreal, the cyst will have minimal contact with the sub and anything else that would infect it.


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