# Help! Dying mountain horned dragon!!



## Labrador (Dec 1, 2012)

Hello! I bought a male Mountain horned dragon back in July with a female. Unfortunately the female was really dehydrated and sick when the pet store received her and she died a few nights later despite my attempts to rehydrate and feed her. The male has been lively and full of spunk since I got him home. He usually ate between 5-7 crickets daily and moved around his tank during the day.

Last month I added another female to the tank since he seemed to be lonely since the loss if the last one. They seemed to respond fine to one another after a bit of distance and head bobbing (unsure if this was out of season courting behavior or just them warning each other of boundaries) and for the past month have slept side by side or on top of one another.

About three weeks ago my male, Loki, stopped eating. I thought that maybe the female had somehow upset him and this was the cause, so I continued to make sure he was getting enough water at least (with a syringe) and hoped that he would regain his appetite. A week later as I was putting crickets in the tank I noticed that Loki's foot looked red, raw, and very swollen. This must have come about over night because I am not sure how I could have missed such an angry looking injury. I took him to the vet the next day. We found an old scar on the bottom of his ankle and she concluded that the injury was old and the infection was inside his foot. She said the stress of the last couple months, coupled with the introduction of another lizard may have brought the infection back if it was laying dormant and gave him an antibiotic injection. There were no open wounds, so rubbing any cream or vitamin D3 on it would not be helpful. She also gave me some powdered carnivore food to mix with warm water to force feed him and I've been doing so since. 

A couple days later I noticed my female was very bloated and my male's foot wasn't looking any better, and that his back legs would tremble and shake occasionally when I picked him up. I assumed this was calcium deficiency since he hasn't been eating the crickets (which are gut loaded and also powdered before being placed in the tank) so I took them both to the vet fearing that parasites were a new concern. The vet x-rayed both of them "out of interest" this time and with no charge and concluded that the female's intestines were full of air and there was a mass in her upper bowels. She gave both lizards a shot with some medication and this far the female is no longer bloated and seems to be doing fine. The x-rays on the male, however, showed that his injury is not only a surface wound, but an old fracture where his ankle has been left in splinters. She opened the wound and drained it, put the goo under the microscope and said that It was full of bacteria. She gave him some more antibiotics (these last 48 hours) on top of the parasite medication, gave me some antibiotics to give him orally every two days, and sent me home to wish for the best.  

Now his foot is looking great compared to what it had been! The swelling has gone down an incredible amount and the color of it is no longer bright and red and raw looking. Darker now, the wound has almost closed completely, and the dead scales have all fallen off. I've been cleaning this every day with warm water and hydrogen peroxide (just a drop) that I thoroughly soak and clean out afterwards. The wound itself doesn't seem to bother him anymore, but he still won't walk on this foot and uses his knee instead. During both visits the vet mentioned that amputation is a likely solution and I'm wondering if maybe that's what needs to happen. 

My main concern is though that he is very weak and lethargic right now from not eating properly or getting enough water. I know he's dehydrated and I have been giving him warm water soaks every night, as well as feeding him his liquid food (with calcium powder added with permission from the vet. His legs no longer shake, by the way, so I assume this has done some good) and water with reptile aid of electrolytes and vitamin D3 especially for stressed and dehydrated reptiles. 

I'm afraid that since he doesn't always eat it all (when he starts to fight it and will no longer swallow or keep the liquids in his mouth, I figure its time to stop) that he's going to die because of lack of food and water. I try to feed him five times a day as the medication says to, but because of my work schedule and lack of friends and family comfortable with handling a frail lizard and forcing open his mouth, sometimes I can only do it three times before its time to put them to bed. He doesn't respond badly to being fed. Getting his mouth open the first time is always a struggle, but in cleaning up the excess around his lips with a q-tip he usually opens it and allows me to feed him at least a syringe and a half of food and a syringe of water.

Lately he's lacking enough strength to even hold his head up. He lays flat against the cloth he has in his cage (place originally to keep dirt out of his wound, but I've kept it because it doesn't get as cold as his dirt at night) with his head down. Very limp most of the time when picked up and placed elsewhere. Occasionally lifts his head or sits up when placed in warm water or when I'm opening his jaws, but otherwise his eyes are almost always closed and he is very unresponsive to physical contact. He used to hiss and bite when I used to touch  him on the sides, and it worries me now that he doesn't seem I notice at all. I know he's probably very tired from fighting off an infection and that he's probably a bit malnourished, but I was wondering if there was anything I could give him to help him recover his strength any faster?

I also recently noticed that he hasnt been going to the bathroom and in giving him tummy rubs that his stomach was very full and bloated. I read online that sometimes medication given to them for parasites can kill the bacteria needed for digestion and that it was recommended to give him some probiotics to help build them back. I'm unsure of that and haven't done so, but I did give them two drops of oil each (via syringe last night) and this morning found that his cloth was stained with runny, green poo. I'm not sure if the color or the lack of solidification is from the liquid diet and oil, and if I should get this looked at? The female has gone and her feces was solid, round, and particularly normal so I'm very concerned about the condition of his! It's not smelly, however, unless I hold the cloth close to my nose and I've read that that is a good sign?

I've also noticed that the male gets very cold at night when the lights are turned off. Usually he responds fine and will turn his natural green (opposed to the dark brown he is lately from stress and illness) as he relaxes and sleeps. Last night I woke up several times and noticed he was still brown. I'm not sure if he just hasn't slept due to discomfort from emptying his bowels, or if maybe he has a stomach ache from the diarrhea? He's not as bloated any more so doing seemed to have helped, but he's definitely not looking as healthy right now as he has been. I had him out and wrapped in cloths warmed in the dryer since his skin was very cold for a little while last night. I'm going To go out and get a heating pad or something similar to keep under him at night, as well as ask about night lamps (though my only concern with this is, the terrarium lid I own only has two slots and both are filled. To keep a night light on them, I will need to buy a new lamp/holder or take both bulbs out and place the red light in every time I put then to bed).

I don't know the wattage of my bulbs or the brand, though one IS a Coil and the other isn't (pet store was adamant that this particular coil was safe and used on all their reptiles. I also didn't buy these on my own. My parents consulted with the pet store and bought the terrarium and bulbs for me while I was out of town). According to my digital thermometers, temperature stays between 75 - 81 (F) during the day, and drops to high 60's - 71 (F) at night. The female seems to do fine and doesn't get as cold as Loki at night, though she rests up high and of course he lays on the ground wrapped loosely in a cloth. Humidity during the day is up in the high 70's or low 80's due to a mister I've purchased, though I reluctantly turn this off at night as it seems to fog up the cage to where I can no longer see INSIDE if kept on without the lights, and also I'm afraid it's also making the tank colder. So the humidity unfortunately drops to the 60's at night. I use plantation soil (tropical terrarium substrate) for their bedding and live plants and a decorative styrofoam background for them to climb on. They have a water dish deep enough for them to sit in that is kept active with a bubbler. The female drinks  out of this, though the male has never done anything but sit in it (and he's not doing that lately, of course). I have always fed him water with a syringe or made sure he was licking it from the glass regularly. 

I am just at a total loss of what to do to help him regain his strength and help him resume going to the bathroom regularly. I think I might try another bulb (this one is 5 months old). Is there a brand or wattage you can suggest?I'm also in the process of building another, slightly bigger tank ( 4 feet high, 3 wide, 2 and a half deep). When this is finished (hopefully by Sunday) should I clean out both tanks and seperate my male and female? I would put the female in the bigger tank since she's active (though, for the record, she hasn't been getting anywhere near Loki now that he's on the ground so I'm not sure she's bothering him) and keep my male in the smaller tank until better or worse happens.

Just any tips, advice, or anything you can give me would be really helpful. I'm new to lizards (adopted the first two because there had been no prior interest in them since they were wild and vicious. Originally I was looking at snakes) and adopted the female I have now to keep loki company. I also can't find much of anything about MHD's online since they're a relatively new species. I just really don't want to lose the little guy since I love him very much. Or at the very least, if I do, I want to be able to say I did everything I could. 

Thanks! Please get back to me ASAP!


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## Niffarious (Dec 1, 2012)

My answer for you is going to be very simple - 

These lizards are notorious for poor acclimation despite the best of care. Unless they were treated, it's likely the animals had extremely heavy parasite loads. Your vet has done lots, but have they done proper fecals on the animals involved? I didn't see that mentioned. 

The female should have been in quarantine first. It's likely she gave something to the male whose condition was already compromised.

They are also VERY prone to stress. On top of the stress of importation, I hate to say it - but your constantly being in their business is likely stressing them out further. If the male was cold, it would have been great to try and find a way to warm him in the tank. Taking him out likely only compounded the stress. So he's being handled to warm up, to medicate, to feed, to soak! This is likely detrimental, and if he doesn't have the strength to lift his head he is probably too far gone. 

Keep in mind that anorexia is a symptom, so the problem has not been solved - and the constant stress of being handled may be putting him over the edge. If I had an animal at the point you are describing, I would humanely euthanize. I do not mean to be a downer, but if he can't lift his head, can't move, can't eat or drink he is probably very far gone.

If your vet is trying to get you to amputate in this condition, your vet is hosing you.

If you choose to get another male in the future, or any others and plan to house them together - make sure you quarantine, leave the animals alone as MUCH as possible, and have a proper parasite check done (fecals, etc) so specific parasites can be targeted.


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## Labrador (Dec 1, 2012)

The vet didn't do any fecal tests as he hadn't been going to the bathroom. She also said that so long as I was only handling him for a couple of minutes to feed and soak that he'd be okay so long as I got him back in to his tank right away, so I have only been doing what the vet told me!

I sprayed them a little while ago and he lifted his front end. Eyes were still closed but he has been in that position since. Is there nothing else I can do to help him? We were going to go grab a heating pad of some sort so warm water soaks didn't need to be as frequent and so that he would be warm at night. Will I be wasting my time and making him suffer further with no chance of recovery by doing so?

---------- Post added 12-01-2012 at 11:53 AM ----------

Also he wasn't this lethargic we she mentioned amputation. She's been very good and done avert thing in her power. I think she was under the impression that his foot may have been the cause and that he would get better


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## Niffarious (Dec 1, 2012)

Your vet should have known that they could have done a cloaca smear to test for parasites. I know you are medicating now, but without a test how could one know what they are treating for? They also should have been treated as soon as you got them - likely the parasite load was extreme, and got worse.

My concern with a heating pad is that if the animal can't move, it could very easily overheat -  those things can get pretty hot. Only do this if you know for sure the heating pad will stay at a relatively low temperature.

What is the point of soaking? They can not take in water that way, and humidity should be proper inside the enclosure. As you are offering water for it to drink, soaking doesn't seem to have any benefit IMO.

Also, if the tank is elaborate and has a substrate of anything but paper towel they are probably being re-infected with whatever parasites on a regular basis. Also, your female needs to be treated for parasites as well.

Handling is a tough balance. You need to medicate and feed, but it also causes stress. I would personally suggest not doing the soaking if you can help it, as it doesn't seem necessary. But this is why it's tough to acclimate these animals - the very act of trying to save them causes more stress. 

I am highly suspect of your vet. Recommending amputation on an animal clearly suffering from a severe parasite load and not even taking a cloacal smear...
Was any of the medication for parasites, or just antibiotics?


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## Labrador (Dec 1, 2012)

I will stop soaking him. Everywhere I have read has suggested doing so since he can absorb water through the skin and to also help him pass bowel movements. I'll call my vet today about exams/smears for parasites for both if them if its not too late. I've cleaned the tank since we brought them home from the vets the last time, including changing the substrate, but I'll take it out and replace with paper. My only concern about that is it staying soggy and cold due to the humidity in the tank.

She gave them both a shot for parasites based on their activity and x-rays and the female seems to be doing a lot better since. I really can't tell if that helped the male at all since he's a bit dehydrated despite the humidity (which was also a reason for soaking, but if hand fed water should be enough I'll stop giving him baths). For the amputation - she was 100% sure his foot was the cause of his illness since it was infected and very sore. The reason he was not moving prior was because he seemed to be struggling with the injury. He was still climbing without the use of it up until four or five days ago, and just leaving his inured foot hanging limp while he held the wall with his other feet. 

I do only handle him three times a day (five at most, but as explained above I really only have time for three times a day) to feed him. Antibiotics are the only medication I've been giving him right now, to assure the infection goes away and doesn't spread. No medication for parasites. If swabbed and tested for parasites, would medicating him for that be too late at this point? I have had him since July and the only signs of any illness/inactivity have only started to show since the injury in his foot surfaced. I was highly under the impression lack of strength and animation was due to him not eating or drinking.


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## Niffarious (Dec 1, 2012)

I want to clarify that I understand soaking is good for them -- it just seemed to me that if you are making sure he is ingesting water and the humidity in the enclosure is up, that it's one thing to eliminate to reduce stress. 

Don't worry about paper towels. As you know, people here use them for ICUs for their T's. The benefit is that they can be replaced easily so hygiene is kept up.

Anorexia is a symptom, not an affliction. So if the animal isn't eating or drinking on its own the root problem has not been fixed. If indeed the foot injury caused this, then the infection had likely already spread. In the condition you are describing, I can't see anyway that the lizard would pull through surgery, unfortunately. It's likely he was already compromised with a heavy parasite load, and reached a breaking point.

You've gone above and beyond for this guy, and done everything you could or can.  I wish I could help more, but I'm not a vet...and these lizards are notorious for not acclimating well at the best of times, let alone if there were pre-existing conditions.

I'll cross my fingers for you...good luck!


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