# I rescued a crippled bearded dragon from Petsmart (help)



## user 666 (May 12, 2017)

I was getting crickets at Petsmart today when I learned they were giving away a bearded dragon with a crippled leg (left rear, and it looks like the damage is permanent).

Can someone point me to instructions on setting up an ideal enclosure? 

I have the enclosure and just about everything to go in it, but I don't know what's best. I have not had a bearded dragon since 20 years ago when I lived in Las vegas (and caught wild ones).

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## GingerC (May 12, 2017)

I probably don't know what I'm talking about, but don't bearded dragons come from Australia?


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## user 666 (May 12, 2017)

GingerC said:


> I probably don't know what I'm talking about, but don't bearded dragons come from Australia?


Yes. 

For some reason I was thinking of the horned lizards we have in the southwest and conflated the two. They look vaguely similar, only bearded dragons get a couple feet long while horned lizards stay quite small. (I've been researching, yes.)


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## Tanner Dzula (May 12, 2017)

So, As far as Ideal set up, you want a couple of things. 


1. Heat/light source. 
i personally suggest getting a All in one, UVB/UVA and her bulb. they are a little pricey but they last usually 1+ years and a lot easier to move/handle and replace the one bulb. 

2. would be a hide. i personally suggest two hides, one opposite sides of the tank, One under the Heat/light source and one on the opposite side in the cooler half of the tank. 
i personally went with a Hide/basking rock combo. about half the price of buying two separate items and it serves both functions. 

i also usually include a large stick to Climb on, i went with the sand blasted Grape Vine, works nicely, Easy for them to grip and takes the heat and weathering nicely. 



As for substrate/bedding, I've always been recommended and have always recommended Rabbit Pellets. They are basicly made from plant matter, they make a Easy clean up bedding(very very easy to clean), they are not harmful if the beardy happens to eat a few pieces(they don't like to eat it but you know, if a piece or two happens to be eaten)  and they won't cause compaction. if you have a large enough tank a lot of people also suggest a Small sandbox type of set up in a corner though i personally have never done this and I've never had an issue with any of mine. 


and as far as diet. depends on the age of the beardy. if its young you'll want a good amount of insects(crickets and if possible preferably Dubia roaches, High suggest not using any type of meal worm as it can cause compaction if its the only food source) and a good amount of greens(no spinach or kale) as well. as it gets older, progressively add more greens to the diet and less insects. once its fully grown and mature, you'll want primarily greens and insects a few times a week at most, 

heres an example of my set up for my Beardy when i had first get everything set up in her new 40g, picture was taken in the middle of cleaning(theres a second hide meant for the Left side by the food bowl, But Osiris decided to use the restroom right on the top middle of it, so its currently being cleaned) 
i would also suggest getting a Mount system for the light fixture if possible. i was currently waiting for mine to be shipped in, so the lights sitting on the mesh top for now. 
Basics of the tank:
-40g breeder
-Rabbit pellet Bedding
- food bowl
-Grape vine to climb/ Bask
-basking rock/hide 

these are the bare basics for the most part, and she has been using this basic set up for a few years now and she's been doing great.


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## user 666 (May 12, 2017)

Thanks. that's a lot of useful info.


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## gypsy cola (May 12, 2017)



Reactions: Sad 6


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## The Snark (May 12, 2017)

Ancient recollections from my cuz. Reptile convalescence is greatly aided by minimizing how much the animal has to adapt to it's environment. IE if it doesn't have to pour energy into altering metabolism and vitals from changes in temperature, humidity, threat/danger levels and so on. IE IE Median unchanging temperature and humidity and as close to completely isolation as possible. Allow it go into a hibernative state.

He had a python that had a couple feet of tail smashed. He left it in a warm closet in a box for over a month, entirely undisturbed. Post surgery and anti infections treatment, somewhat recuperated it came back to earth by tagging him and wouldn't let go when he checked on it.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## user 666 (May 12, 2017)

The Petsmart has a Banfield franchise, and according to the vet report the fracture had already healed.

Only it healed crooked.

Reactions: Sad 1


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## Tanner Dzula (May 12, 2017)

user 666 said:


> The Petsmart has a Banfield franchise, and according to the vet report the fracture had already healed.
> 
> Only it healed crooked.


thats very unfortunate :/ 
sometimes these things happen, and it sucks to see it that way. 

my own beardy i got from a guy on craigslist, i just happened to stumble upon the ad looking for tanks for sale. basicly the guy was going to just leave it outside if nobody came and got it that day so of course i went a picked her up! 

When we got there, he explained he got it from Petsmart sold as a "fancy" bearded dragon but it was missing all the Toes from its back right foot (basicly just 5 little numbs) and that they had been bitten off as a baby. its crazy to think about how they treat these animals and how they basicly just keep them healthy enough to produce babies  half the time. 

i really wish there were ways to crack down on these suppliers because the care for these animals is ridiculous most of the time. 

i never used to believe the stories of people "finding" live animals in the trash behind pet stores until i witnessed it first hand at a local petco. apparently a Mother had bought a iguana for their child, and did little research on the animal before and for some reason felt they were capable of handling and caring for it equips with only the little petco care pamphlet and a small 10g tank. needless to say she came back  few months later then the cramped iguana(which had originally been sold 75% due to it being "to large" to keep for much longer) had bitten both her kids and, apparently as she stated "charged" at her when she went to feed it.  so the mom brought the iguana and the tank and everything back to petco and when they refused to take it back, she literally left it on the counter and stormed out with her crying kids.  the manager on duty basicly tossed it in a bag and put the whole tank/bag set up in the dumpster behind the store, since they were in the middle of closing the store down. 

absolutely terrible and watching that video just makes it that much worse.

Reactions: Sad 1


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## grimmjowls (May 12, 2017)

I'm going to address some incorrect information I've noticed in this post. 

1. Mealworms do not cause *impaction. Bad husbandry does. They are, though, very fatty, and not a good staple insect. 
2. A 40g tank is NOT large enough for an adult dragon, it's not even a minimum. 4x2x2 is the minimum for adults. 
3. Again, saying that rabbit pellets won't cause *impaction like other substrates is horribly misinformed. Any type of substrate is just as likely to cause impaction. I've never used rabbit pellets, but they seem unsightly and just a choking hazard for younger dragons. Not sure how old your dragon is.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## grimmjowls (May 12, 2017)

Kale is fine as well, as long as it's not a staple. My dragons enjoy kale because of the texture but it's not their main diet.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## user 666 (May 12, 2017)

Tanner Dzula said:


> i never used to believe the stories of people "finding" live animals in the trash behind pet stores until i witnessed it first hand at a local petco. apparently a Mother had bought a iguana for their child, and did little research on the animal before and for some reason felt they were capable of handling and caring for it equips with only the little petco care pamphlet and a small 10g tank. needless to say she came back  few months later then the cramped iguana(which had originally been sold 75% due to it being "to large" to keep for much longer) had bitten both her kids and, apparently as she stated "charged" at her when she went to feed it.  so the mom brought the iguana and the tank and everything back to petco and when they refused to take it back, she literally left it on the counter and stormed out with her crying kids.  the manager on duty basicly tossed it in a bag and put the whole tank/bag set up in the dumpster behind the store, since they were in the middle of closing the store down.


Those kind of stories are why I jumped at the chance rescue this beardie. It had already been there for a week with no takers.

I know Petsmart's history, and even though I wasn't fully prepared for a bearded dragon I knew that I was a hell of a lot better than the alternative.


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## Tanner Dzula (May 12, 2017)

grimmjowls said:


> I'm going to address some incorrect information I've noticed in this post.
> 
> 1. Mealworms do not cause *impaction. Bad husbandry does. They are, though, very fatty, and not a good staple insect.
> 2. A 40g tank is NOT large enough for an adult dragon, it's not even a minimum. 4x2x2 is the minimum for adults.
> 3. Again, saying that rabbit pellets won't cause *impaction like other substrates is horribly misinformed. Any type of substrate is just as likely to cause impaction. I've never used rabbit pellets, but they seem unsightly and just a choking hazard for younger dragons. Not sure how old your dragon is.



1. the internet seems to disagree with you.
its highly reccomened to keep any reptile away from Mealworms as a staple because of the Hard chitin. Now this does not include ALL worms, but Specifically mealworms, AKA _Tenebrious monitor, _especially in younger dragons. now I'm not saying feeding one meal worm is going to instantly cause impaction. but if you use it as a staple(which is something that I'm sure the petsmart he got it from probably tried to tell him, as they always do, because as we all know, they are usually pretty clueless) it has been know to cause impaction in younger dragons. 
that being said, if Any worms are going to be fed to a dragon, especially a younger dragon, there are much safer alternatives with a much better "meat to chitin" ratio, and even better alternatives all togetrht to worms as it is( User 666 is a active member and just form his posts i can tell he has access to other, better, feeding materials) 



2. did i say it was large enough?
2 things wrong with what you just stated.
first: i literally stated in my last post that it was a *****BASIC***** set up. of course he is going to want to upgrade it later, but this is assuming(because it came from a petsmart and they almost NEVER keep beards until fully grown if they can avoid it)  its a younger beardie. and its not far off from the minimum, you stated 4 x 2 x 2 for an adult bearded dragon? look at this, 
	

		
			
		

		
	



its about 1 foot short length wise and 6inches short in height and width. for a Basic first set up, thats not far off and gives him time to save up for an adult enclosure(this was not a planned thing, and I'm not sure he has the money to immediately to spend on a full adult set up, and nor would he need One Right away, depending on the size of the beardy) i can imagine especially if its still a fairly young beardy? no reason to put a fresh young baby beardy thats possibly only 4-10 inches long in a 60+ gallon tank. absolutely no reason at all unless absolutely not wanting to ever rehouse him again. 
its an option, but i wouldn't recommend it for a *Basic* set up. 

Second: if you literally go back and read my post, i specifically stated this WAS the set up i had, this set up was from well over a year ago when my beardy was maybe ~6 months old and literally half the size she is now. i also stated that i had a similar situation where i basicly rescued mine. i was short on budget and the person was going to literally leave it to die outside(i live in arizona and it gets 115+ degrees in the day time in july, i was not going to let that happen) i also got a basic set up for the time being. and not for nothing, but it came in a 20g Long, i opted for a Larger tank immediately rather then keep it in the 20g tank. 

i didn't post pictures of her CURRENT set up because it wouldn't be as beneficial to show my current set up for a Fully mature beardy if he has a young beardy. now if he was asking about a future set up, that would be different. 
And not for nothing but the bare minimum for an adult Bearded dragon(one not exceeding 20 inches) IS a 40g Breeder
	

		
			
		

		
	




Of course Ideal is 4x2x2, but i really don't think he has the time or money to Hunt down a Full size 120G Tank(recommended for ADULT sizes of 20+ inches or longer)

and AGAIN if its a juvenile or baby beardy, do you REALLY think sticking it in a full 120G set up is a good idea?

3. i am saying Rabbit pellets(alfalfa) won't cause Compaction because its literally made of "greens" its made edible material ( Alfalfa is even a recommended food to give to beards), versus Sand, Hampter bedding, or god knows what else he might find suggested on internet care sheets(or from the pet store he got it from). the biggest risk stated would be that they are basicly "dried". and obviously if the beardy starts eating a large amount, then sure you'd want to take it out, this is the same with ANY substrate. if your beardy started scarfing down sand from his dig box, would you keep the sand in? no.
sure a Young dragon might choke on a pellet, but its a lot safer using a natural digestible material, then something thats in no way digestible.   and again would depend on the size.

let me ask you. if this is a Dragon small enough to choke on a rabbit pellet (between 1/4"-1/2") then why would you be saying that a 40g is below the minimum again? this would mean his beardie would have to be a baby/young juvenile and suggesting he buy a 75G or 120G for that size is very unnecessary.  thats like suggesting a full 10g tank for a T. Stirmi sling.

I've raised multiple bearded dragons on them, I know many people who have and there has never been an issue.
on the inverse I've seen so many people lose dragons to them eating large amounts of Sand or other harmful or non-digestible substrates.
i mean, its all up to personal preference, but when something is listed as a non-dangerous food(alfalfa) and there is pellets made of it, why would there be a huge risk of impaction.
but as an alternate, you can use Millet Seed(another non dangerous alternative) 
or Sand or other types of material for dig boxes. but again, all up to personal preference.

at the end of the day, NONE of us are truly experts, and as most people would agree, when it comes down to it, Experience is usually the best thing to go on. 

i am simply sharing my experience of years of keeping and raising bearded dragons, and giving basic info. 
not many other people have chimed in for much more then i have or to nit-pick my post needlessly. if you disagree, feel free to help him.


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## user 666 (May 12, 2017)

My beardie is yay big:




He's on an organic mulch substrate made of various things in a large kritter keeper with a heating pad.  (not ideal, I know, but good enough to last until I can go to the reptile expo tomorrow and stock up)

He is active and has so far eaten a half dozen crickets and a half-inch dubia. I introduced him to a superworm but he wasn't interested.

I hadn't realized beardies ate so much or grew so fast, but luckily my dubia colony is about to start producing.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Nephila Edulis (May 12, 2017)

Food- Younger dragons need more protein so the majority should be insects if he's small. Preferably roaches. But if the dragon has a crippled leg I would suggest pre-killed food. If it's an adult more greens and fewer insects. Mealworms can be used as a treat but definitely not as a staple.

Enclosure- Ideal cage size for an adult is 4x2x2. Don't use sand as a substrate, try to find something proven to not cause impaction or try to use something similar to the substrate of their natural environment (clay, rock slabs, etc.). I've seen people ignore my advice and say "they live in deserts, sand is fine for them" when in reality they live in arid woodland and scrubland, they spend a lot of time in rock crevices and on trees and shrubs, they don't really live on the sand like a thorny devil. Provide two hides, maybe even three if your willing. Have them on opposite sides of the enclosure, one warm and one cold hide. You may also spray down the cooler hide for shedding on occasion, but not excessively

Heating- play around with the lighting and heating bulbs. See what's available for bearded dragons and make sure it's from a good seller who knows what they're doing and cares about the animals

Sorry if I've gotten anything wrong, I haven't kept a drain for years and all I really have now are four blue tongued skinks and my inverts


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## Tanner Dzula (May 12, 2017)

user 666 said:


> My beardie is yay big:
> 
> View attachment 240022
> 
> ...



ohh yea, he is pretty small. and i can see what you mean with the leg! well hopefully with a dedicated owner like you he will be able to live with it  i hate to say it like that but its actually somewhat good that it happened at that size, because atleasta s he grows, he will learn to live with it easier then if it happened as a adult. i wish you the best of luck!

i, personally, would *suggest* a 20g Long for him at most. large enough to last you several months, but not too big as to make it a chore to cross it back and forth with his leg that way.

with the leg looking that way it might be good to use a tile/ceramic base at the bottom. it'll be a little more taxing to clean, but wouldn't put any additional strain on his leg i don't think. 

at his size definitely a lot more protein like @Nephila Edulis suggested and i agree about the roaches. a very good staple insect, and its super easy to Crush their heads and they still squirm to attract the beardies attention.


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## user 666 (May 12, 2017)

I have one of these that I'm not really using for anything other than mixing substrate:
http://www.lllreptile.com/products/11440-large-exo-terra-reptile-den-flat-home

I think I'll put him in that tomorrow - if nothing better turns up.


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## Ellenantula (May 12, 2017)

I feel so many of the BD injuries are from housing them together -- they have a brief babyhood when they can safely share a tank and then it's carnage, imo.  

You've gotten a lot of information so I won't write my own tome.  Just be sure to provide a warm basking side and not-as-warm side.  They require UVB and basking lamps, a hide, mine adores his hammock as well as a soft fleece blanket to nap on.  Mine does get mealies but since mine is an adult -- he has to earn them by eating some veggies too.  Bathing for 20 minutes in warm (NOT HOT) water helps with hydration both for absorption through cloaca/vent as well as sometimes drinking some water during bath (and mine uses chooses to poop during a bath which ends bath time  lol).  I bathe twice weekly and trust mine gets enough moisture through wet veg/fruit.  
I don't use loose substrate -- many people use tile -- I use a carpet (with a backup carpet) and keep the spare one clean.  Carpets are probably a bigger concern if nail maintenance is ignored.  Buy the biggest tank you can -- 40 gallon is minimum for an adult -- always go bigger if you can.

Best of luck -- BDs are amazing companion pets!


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## Tanner Dzula (May 12, 2017)

Ellenantula said:


> I feel so many of the BD injuries are from housing them together -- they have a brief babyhood when they can safely share a tank and then it's carnage, imo.
> 
> You've gotten a lot of information so I won't write my own tome.  Just be sure to provide a warm basking side and not-as-warm side.  They require UVB and basking lamps, a hide, mine adores his hammock as well as a soft fleece blanket to nap on.  Mine does get mealies but since mine is an adult -- he has to earn them by eating some veggies too.  Bathing for 20 minutes in warm (NOT HOT) water helps with hydration both for absorption through cloaca/vent as well as sometimes drinking some water during bath (and mine uses chooses to poop during a bath which ends bath time  lol).  I bathe twice weekly and trust mine gets enough moisture through wet veg/fruit.
> I don't use loose substrate -- many people use tile -- I use a carpet (with a backup carpet) and keep the spare one clean.  Carpets are probably a bigger concern if nail maintenance is ignored.  Buy the biggest tank you can -- 40 gallon is minimum for an adult -- always go bigger if you can.
> ...



ahhh, the good old bathtub poops. 

its amazing how such a simple thing as a warm pool of water can almost instantly trigger a bowl moment. Most of mine, like clockwork, within about 30 seconds of being put into a warm little bath, almost instantly poop haha.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## G. pulchra (May 12, 2017)

Make sure you use a good quality supplement, personally I use Repashy.  Just remember to supplement on a schedule with it.


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## Tanner Dzula (May 12, 2017)

user 666 said:


> I have one of these that I'm not really using for anything other than mixing substrate:
> http://www.lllreptile.com/products/11440-large-exo-terra-reptile-den-flat-home
> 
> I think I'll put him in that tomorrow - if nothing better turns up.


definitely not ideal, but for sure will work and be decent until you can find something large enough. 

idk if they have it going on currently. but i know petco/petsmart do usually have their Dollar Per gallon sales pretty often, and you can grab a decently priced 20g or 40gm which will hold him pretty well for a while(id say 3-5months in the 20g at MOST, and at most 6-10months in a 40g, or until he/she is reaching adult hood, at that point id get a 75+ gallon, depending on the dimensions, I've found some Weird tanks at my local Goodwill my buddy works for, odd custom Fish tank set ups that have worked nicely. )


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## Ellenantula (May 12, 2017)

Tanner Dzula said:


> ahhh, the good old bathtub poops.
> 
> its amazing how such a simple thing as a warm pool of water can almost instantly trigger a bowl moment. Most of mine, like clockwork, within about 30 seconds of being put into a warm little bath, almost instantly poop haha.


I know!  
Sometimes mine really needed a soak so I would have to halt bath to change water because he pooped way too soon!
I've always heard you need about 20 minutes if you're trying to hydrate via cloaca/vent -- hence water change to continue bath.

Reactions: Lollipop 1


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## Tanner Dzula (May 12, 2017)

Ellenantula said:


> I know!
> Sometimes mine really needed a soak so I would have to halt bath to change water because he pooped way too soon!
> I've always heard you need about 20 minutes if you're trying to hydrate via cloaca/vent -- hence water change to continue bath.


yea, thats why for me(well my GF, as she's the one who really loves bath time, usually doing that while i Feed the rest of our zoo haha) 
we usually fill it up a little with a little warmth at first just so that they will go right away, and then drain and Really fill it up for a Full good bath haha. one thing I've found that works really nice, is a old baby bath that i had bought for my sister last year when she had her son(one of her friends bought the exact same one and i couldn't return it so i just kept it "just in case") 

and noticed you can control the temperature and its not too deep since its for laying down an newborn-infant in it and has a  nice gradual slope to it. 
works really nice an can keep the water constantly warm, but not hot, at a specific temperature. its also super easy to keep clean and sanitary since its designed for new borns.


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## Ellenantula (May 12, 2017)

Sounds like a nicer bathtub than mine has.  Mine is black with skull designs around outside -- a large Halloween tub you put ice in to hold drinks at a party. 
Hey... it works.  But no slope.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Tanner Dzula (May 12, 2017)

Ellenantula said:


> Sounds like a nicer bathtub than mine has.  Mine is black with skull designs around outside -- a large Halloween tub you put ice in to hold drinks at a party.
> Hey... it works.  But no slope.


Do you want to trade? :O that sounds amazing and would go really well with literally everything in our house haha.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## grimmjowls (May 12, 2017)

Tanner Dzula said:


> 1. the internet seems to disagree with you.
> its highly reccomened to keep any reptile away from Mealworms as a staple because of the Hard chitin. Now this does not include ALL worms, but Specifically mealworms, AKA _Tenebrious monitor, _especially in younger dragons. now I'm not saying feeding one meal worm is going to instantly cause impaction. but if you use it as a staple(which is something that I'm sure the petsmart he got it from probably tried to tell him, as they always do, because as we all know, they are usually pretty clueless) it has been know to cause impaction in younger dragons.
> that being said, if Any worms are going to be fed to a dragon, especially a younger dragon, there are much safer alternatives with a much better "meat to chitin" ratio, and even better alternatives all togetrht to worms as it is( User 666 is a active member and just form his posts i can tell he has access to other, better, feeding materials)
> 
> ...


Sorry, I'm not going to read all of that. You took it personally when I told you your information was wrong. 

There is virtually no evidence of impaction from mealworms, just spun wives tales that everyone pounds into the skulls of new owners. You're doing more harm than good. I have fed lots of mealworms in one sitting to my dragons and never had an issue, because the chitin is not the problem. It's bad husbandry that causes it. When a dragon doesn't have the proper temperatures to bask at, he cannot digest it properly. That is a fact. I'm sorry, you are wrong. 

You're going off about the size but I don't have the time or interest to read how you think you're more correct in putting your dragon in a small box. This is why Europe is appalled at the United States' keepers apparent need to stay in the past. Times gave changed, we know better now. Stop putting your pride before your animal's health. 
4x2x2 is a MINIMUM for an adult. I simply told OP that. I'm not here to try and teach you, I just want to correct the incorrect information you gave OP. 

The rest... I'm sorry but I think it's just more of the same.


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## grimmjowls (May 12, 2017)

Sand is a fine substrate. Not the best, but its fine. Please don't mislead OP.


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## grimmjowls (May 12, 2017)

Ellenantula said:


> I feel so many of the BD injuries are from housing them together -- they have a brief babyhood when they can safely share a tank and then it's carnage, imo.
> 
> You've gotten a lot of information so I won't write my own tome.  Just be sure to provide a warm basking side and not-as-warm side.  They require UVB and basking lamps, a hide, mine adores his hammock as well as a soft fleece blanket to nap on.  Mine does get mealies but since mine is an adult -- he has to earn them by eating some veggies too.  Bathing for 20 minutes in warm (NOT HOT) water helps with hydration both for absorption through cloaca/vent as well as sometimes drinking some water during bath (and mine uses chooses to poop during a bath which ends bath time  lol).  I bathe twice weekly and trust mine gets enough moisture through wet veg/fruit.
> I don't use loose substrate -- many people use tile -- I use a carpet (with a backup carpet) and keep the spare one clean.  Carpets are probably a bigger concern if nail maintenance is ignored.  Buy the biggest tank you can -- 40 gallon is minimum for an adult -- always go bigger if you can.
> ...


Baths are useless. Their skin is proven to be basically waterproof, they don't absorb anything. The only way a dragon can hydrate in a bath is through directly drinking. In nature, they get most, if not all, of their moisture from their diet. 

Also, don't soak to get your dragon to poop, and don't "massage his belly." People suggest that but it's bad because it forces the dragon to go prematurely and could cause a prolapse.


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## grimmjowls (May 12, 2017)

Water... 
http://reptileapartment.com/water-bearded-dragons/


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## Nephila Edulis (May 13, 2017)

grimmjowls said:


> Baths are useless. Their skin is proven to be basically waterproof, they don't absorb anything. The only way a dragon can hydrate in a bath is through directly drinking. In nature, they get most, if not all, of their moisture from their diet.
> 
> Also, don't soak to get your dragon to poop, and don't "massage his belly." People suggest that but it's bad because it forces the dragon to go prematurely and could cause a prolapse.


And if your dragon (or leopard gecko, etc, etc.) is actually impacted should you get it to poop?


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## grimmjowls (May 13, 2017)

Nephila Edulis said:


> And if your dragon (or leopard gecko, etc, etc.) is actually impacted should you get it to poop?


Bring it to the vet. You can't know an impaction from just a poop taking awhile. If your pet is impacted, it won't poop for you. It's IMPACTED and needs a vet.


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## Chris LXXIX (May 13, 2017)

Tanner Dzula said:


> the internet seems to disagree with you.


The Internet disagree with everyone, at some point in time 



Tanner Dzula said:


> _Tenebrious monitor_


_Tenebrio molitor_  where "_molitor_" is "_mugnaio_", in modern Italian

Reactions: Like 1


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## schmiggle (May 13, 2017)

Chris LXXIX said:


> The Internet disagree with everyone, at some point in time


Not me! As you know, I'm always right so no one ever disagrees with me.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Nephila Edulis (May 13, 2017)

schmiggle said:


> Not me! As you know, I'm always right so no one ever disagrees with me.


People always disagree with me when they're wrong. Oh internet


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## Nephila Edulis (May 13, 2017)

grimmjowls said:


> Bring it to the vet. You can't know an impaction from just a poop taking awhile. If your pet is impacted, it won't poop for you. It's IMPACTED and needs a vet.


I haven't kept a dragon in years so sorry if I am wrong all the time


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## Nephila Edulis (May 13, 2017)

grimmjowls said:


> Bring it to the vet. You can't know an impaction from just a poop taking awhile. If your pet is impacted, it won't poop for you. It's IMPACTED and needs a vet.


well that's the obvious option, but if you can't afford vet bills it's a different story unless you want to give your dragon to somebody who can pay for the vet bills. But most keepers aren't so willing to let their beloved pets go


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## Chris LXXIX (May 13, 2017)

schmiggle said:


> Not me! As you know, I'm always right so no one ever disagrees with me.


Hard words for someone, cheese enthusiast, that never tried Casu Marzu 

jok 

However you never gained a 'dislike' or a 'disagree' rating, so far

Reactions: Like 1


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## basin79 (May 13, 2017)

I've got to ask this. 

Petco seems to be an absolutely disgusting organisation from the horrific threads I've read on this board.

Why would you support them in ANY way? Buying crickets off them is supporting them.

Second question why the hell aren't the stores closed down if the mistreatment is so evident and in the public eye?

Reactions: Like 1


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## basin79 (May 13, 2017)

A full spectrum tube bulb needs to be within 30cm of the dragon for it to take advantage of it and needs to be changed every 6 months.

With your little fella having a damaged keg you'll probably have to lower the bulb rather than put a branch in the enclosure for it to get close enough to get the benefit.


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## user 666 (May 13, 2017)

basin79 said:


> I've got to ask this.
> 
> Petco seems to be an absolutely disgusting organisation from the horrific threads I've read on this board.
> 
> ...


Because I have to buy my bird food dog food, and T prey somewhere. And frankly, there isn't a huge difference between the chain pet stores and the niche T dealers.

The one makes their money off of accessories and cares not one whit for the animals. The other only cares about the animals because it doesn't sell the accessories, and that care only extends as far as making the sale. (This thread is not the place for this discussion, and in any case I have a longer pot about this elsewhere.)



basin79 said:


> A full spectrum tube bulb needs to be within 30cm of the dragon for it to take advantage of it and needs to be changed every 6 months.
> 
> With your little fella having a damaged keg you'll probably have to lower the bulb rather than put a branch in the enclosure for it to get close enough to get the benefit.


I have bulbs in my storage bin.

And he's climbing pretty nicely, although that probably won't last as he gets older and bigger.


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## Ellenantula (May 13, 2017)

I admire OP for rescuing a BD.

I also shop at pet stores.  It's where I purchase parrot pellets, seed, frozen mice and cat food.  Not to mention purchasing replacement UVB & basking bulbs/tubes, reptile lamps, enclosures, lids, parrot toys, catnip and cat toys.  As well as litter boxes, kitty carriers, food dishes, dog crates....  It's what pet stores are there for.  I also purchased my BD from a pet store.  Because I saw him there and wanted to.

Baths could bring on a BM from BD's swimming motion or perhaps it works more as an enema of sorts.  Maybe it's just the warmth and wetness they like.  I only know bath=poop. lol  That said, mine has never had an impaction; but I believe baths are beneficial and mine sure enjoys his.  I will continue baths.  Even my ball python will poop in a bath.
I've already mentioned that wet veg/fruit is mine's moisture source.  I don't think anyone suggested that a bath was a replacement for proper diet and food hydration.  Mine has a water dish but doesn't drink from it.
I also believe baths and misting help later sheds.


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## grimmjowls (May 13, 2017)

Nephila Edulis said:


> well that's the obvious option, but if you can't afford vet bills it's a different story unless you want to give your dragon to somebody who can pay for the vet bills. But most keepers aren't so willing to let their beloved pets go


Honestly, you shouldn't have a bearded dragon if you can't afford occasional vet bills in case of emergency. 

Your lack of finances doesn't mean it's okay to neglect an animal. 

Dragons should actually have a fecal check up every 6 months but I understand and agree that not everyone lives in an area that that would be possible, nor financially can afford that. But if you can't afford necessary vet care at the point of impaction, there's two options:
1. Don't give the animal improper husbandry. 
2. Don't have a bearded dragon.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Tanner Dzula (May 13, 2017)

grimmjowls said:


> Sorry, I'm not going to read all of that. You took it personally when I told you your information was wrong.
> 
> There is virtually no evidence of impaction from mealworms, just spun wives tales that everyone pounds into the skulls of new owners. You're doing more harm than good. I have fed lots of mealworms in one sitting to my dragons and never had an issue, because the chitin is not the problem. It's bad husbandry that causes it. When a dragon doesn't have the proper temperatures to bask at, he cannot digest it properly. That is a fact. I'm sorry, you are wrong.
> 
> ...


so you don't bother to read my response, but will then still critic my answer. interesting. 

ironic because i never said to keep an ADULT in a small box, if you had any abilty to comprehend what i wrote at all, you would know that. OP showed a picture of the beardie and it is literally about 4" long. 
its barely long then his hand. 

he does not need a FULL ADULT enclosure for a 4 inch dragon right away. especially if you bothered to even read the context of his post. 

if you are going to openly criticize people, at the very least take the time to read their response. 

i could be just a rude, quote your post and simply chalk it up as, "you obviously lack experience or logic" but i didn't do that. 
but have fun feeding you dragon mealworms and when one does get impacted, ill enjoy seeing your post about it! meanwhile ill be back to helping the OP with the actual issue at hand and not nit picking everybody here trying to help him.


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## Tanner Dzula (May 13, 2017)

Chris LXXIX said:


> The Internet disagree with everyone, at some point in time
> 
> 
> 
> ...


yea, auto correct got me on that one, Please don't think I'm suggesting he feed or not feed his beardy any type of monitor  haha

Reactions: Love 1


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## Tanner Dzula (May 13, 2017)

Ellenantula said:


> I admire OP for rescuing a BD.
> 
> I also shop at pet stores.  It's where I purchase parrot pellets, seed, frozen mice and cat food.  Not to mention purchasing replacement UVB & basking bulbs/tubes, reptile lamps, enclosures, lids, parrot toys, catnip and cat toys.  As well as litter boxes, kitty carriers, food dishes, dog crates....  It's what pet stores are there for.  I also purchased my BD from a pet store.  Because I saw him there and wanted to.
> 
> ...


none of us did say that. 
But don't worry, he seems to have a big issue of Not reading your post and then filling the blanks himself with what he Feels or thinks you said. 
apparently an entire forum site dedicated to the care and raising of Bearded dragons is completely wrong, and the combined Decades and Decades of experience is all false and incorrect based solely on His life experience. 
doubly ironic being that he is on a Similar Forum site(but one aimed towards Arachnids) , spewing similar but contradictory logic as fact. its almost as if we are ALL going off our own personal experience and findings from over the years.


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## Ellenantula (May 13, 2017)

OP rescued a little injured bearded dragon.

Suddenly we've now got the poor little thing now impacted on mealworms while giving it useless baths instead of veterinary care, and apparently, are insisting that OP keep the little darling in a container too small to turn around in.  Oh, and we're guilty of buying pet supplies at pet stores.  smh

Good luck OP -- I think you did a wonderful thing to take on a rescue and trust you will do your best to provide a good home for your new pet.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Tanner Dzula (May 13, 2017)

Ellenantula said:


> OP rescued a little injured bearded dragon.
> 
> Suddenly we've now got the poor little thing now impacted on mealworms while giving it useless baths instead of veterinary care, and apparently, are insisting that OP keep the little darling in a container too small to turn around in.  Oh, and we're guilty of buying pet supplies at pet stores.  smh
> 
> Good luck OP -- I think you did a wonderful thing to take on a rescue and trust you will do your best to provide a good home for your new pet.


yep. its a wonderful thing what context, and the lack there of, can do to a situation.  


though, as a interesting thought i can imagine a Tiny ~4" in beardy in a 120g Tank just running in circles looking for a warm spot(because I'm assuming the light is more then 2-2.5 feet Feet from the beardy at this point and (Well over 30 CM by bare minimum logic in a 4 x 2 x 2 ) and him trying his best to climb as high as he can on his unfortunately deformed leg to get closer to it.


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## user 666 (May 13, 2017)

Y'all do realize that you don't have to read the other obnoxious person's posts, right?

There's this feature called "Ignore".

The forum would be a lot more pleasant if you would start using it.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Award 2


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## Tanner Dzula (May 13, 2017)

user 666 said:


> Y'all do realize that you don't have to read the other obnoxious person's posts, right?
> 
> There's this feature called "Ignore".
> 
> The forum would be a lot more pleasant if you would start using it.


I'm normally fine with ignoring, its when somebody goes out of their way to nit-pick my post, and then instead of taking the time to read my reply before criticizing again, just resorts to being petty. 

its one thing to pleasantly disagree, thats all good, I mean nobody here is a true expert in this field and almost all of us usually just go by experiences we've had with these animals. 

but to openly criticize people ,and to accuse me of purposefully giving misinformation on thread asking for help is kind of insulting(especially considering me and my family have been keeping/raising/breeding dragons for well over 2 decades without a single situation of impaction, dehydration, or ever having to make an emergency visit to a vet for an issue related to negligent care or bad husbandry, but thats irrelevant) 

its not like i told you to feed it thumb tacks and to house him in the freezer to keep him nice and cold ya know? its one thing to jump in and prevent somebody from doing something that will kill or hurt the species, but another to nit-pick small details just to do it.


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## Xafron (May 13, 2017)

user 666 said:


> Y'all do realize that you don't have to read the other obnoxious person's posts, right?
> 
> There's this feature called "Ignore".
> 
> The forum would be a lot more pleasant if you would start using it.


But then you'd have nobody left to talk to.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Love 1


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## grimmjowls (May 13, 2017)

I'm just so sad to see people act as if they're up to date on husbandry whilst telling new-comers to the hobby incorrect information...

OP, if you have a Facebook, I can invite you to a very well informed and educated group specifically for the research and care of bearded dragons in captivity. You'll get nothing but the most currently up to date information, not any rubbish that has been debunked.  Shoot me a PM if you're interested.


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## grimmjowls (May 13, 2017)

You can keep on believing baths/misting helps shedding, but that doesn't make it true... Their skin is virtually waterproof.


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## Chris LXXIX (May 13, 2017)

grimmjowls said:


> OP, if you have a Facebook, I can invite you to a very well informed and *educated *group


Facebook and "educated" combined together? That's incredible, sublime, like a fresh water Oasi in the desert.

Bravo, bravo!

Reactions: Funny 1


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## grimmjowls (May 13, 2017)

Chris LXXIX said:


> Facebook and "educated" combined together? That's incredible, sublime, like a fresh water Oasi in the desert.
> 
> Bravo, bravo!


You've been in the wrong crevices of Facebook then, my friend.
Any social media platform can become a gathering ground for intelligent people.
I'm in a group for tarantula owners worldwide and it's very enlightening.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## VolkswagenBug (May 16, 2017)

While I applaud the OP for rescuing the beardie, the problem with saving injured animals from large pet store chains like this is that they'll just replace it with another one and care for it badly.


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## Ellenantula (May 17, 2017)

VolkswagenBug said:


> While I applaud the OP for rescuing the beardie, the problem with saving injured animals from large pet store chains like this is that they'll just replace it with another one and care for it badly.


I used to feel the same way you do.  But they're gonna replace that beardie whether someone buys it and saves it... or it just dies in their care there and then is re-ordered by 'inventory' to replace it.

So, I suppose, my take on this now is like that story of the boy walking the beach and seeing thousands of washed-up starfish on the beach. (I know most here already know this story, sorry).  But anyway, the boy would pick up a star fish and toss it back into the ocean so the starfish wouldn't dessicate and die in the sun.  An old man watching the boy approached and pointed out that the job was pointless; the boy couldn't possibly make a difference since there were miles and miles of washed-up starfish.  But the boy picked up yet another starfish and threw it back into the ocean, explaining "it made a difference to that one."

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## VolkswagenBug (May 17, 2017)

Ellenantula said:


> I used to feel the same way you do.  But they're gonna replace that beardie whether someone buys it and saves it... or it just dies in their care there and then is re-ordered by 'inventory' to replace it.
> 
> So, I suppose, my take on this now is like that story of the boy walking the beach and seeing thousands of washed-up starfish on the beach. (I know most here already know this story, sorry).  But anyway, the boy would pick up a star fish and toss it back into the ocean so the starfish wouldn't dessicate and die in the sun.  An old man watching the boy approached and pointed out that the job was pointless; the boy couldn't possibly make a difference since there were miles and miles of washed-up starfish.  But the boy picked up yet another starfish and threw it back into the ocean, explaining "it made a difference to that one."


That does make sense. I guess the beardie would have a better chance of survival in captivity, at least.


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## Ellenantula (May 17, 2017)

I would guess most pet stores make their real money in selling food and supplies. I assume selling live animals is just an added 'draw' to the store -- people just like to see hamsters and reptiles during their visit -- it just makes a store more diverse.

I imagine the average pet store customer assumes pet stores are experts on animals and it probably never crosses their minds how many creatures may suffer and die there.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## user 666 (May 17, 2017)

VolkswagenBug said:


> While I applaud the OP for rescuing the beardie, the problem with saving injured animals from large pet store chains like this is that they'll just replace it with another one and care for it badly.


What they used to do was just kill the animal outright, or even worse, throw the living animal in the dumpster because it could no longer be sold.

Now they give the animal away at no cost. I consider that a huge improvement.


Ellenantula said:


> I would guess most pet stores make their real money in selling food and supplies. I assume selling live animals is just an added 'draw' to the store -- people just like to see hamsters and reptiles during their visit -- it just makes a store more diverse.


The animals are there so the pet stores can sell the accouterment (cage, food, etc), yes.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## user 666 (May 17, 2017)

grimmjowls said:


> OP, if you have a Facebook, I can invite you to a very well informed and educated group specifically for the research and care of bearded dragons in captivity. You'll get nothing but the most currently up to date information, not any rubbish that has been debunked.  Shoot me a PM if you're interested.


(just now seeing this)

I am on FB, yes. Sending you a PM now.


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## Ellenantula (May 18, 2017)

I have found some wonderful bearded dragon, ball python, parrot and tarantula groups on FB to join.  Some more informative than others, naturally.  I am partial to rescue groups.
Pro: seeing cute BDs in one's feed.  
Con: seeing neglected & abused BDs in one's feed.  

(I guess you can choose your FB settings to limit what shows in your feed).


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## grimmjowls (May 18, 2017)

Ellenantula said:


> I have found some wonderful bearded dragon, ball python, parrot and tarantula groups on FB to join.  Some more informative than others, naturally.  I am partial to rescue groups.
> Pro: seeing cute BDs in one's feed.
> Con: seeing neglected & abused BDs in one's feed.
> 
> (I guess you can choose your FB settings to limit what shows in your feed).


You're no more likely to see neglected dragons in a group than you are at a pet store if you're in the right group. The group I suggested to OP is excellent.


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## Ellenantula (May 18, 2017)

grimmjowls said:


> You're no more likely to see neglected dragons in a group than you are at a pet store if you're in the right group. The group I suggested to OP is excellent.


Absolutely.  I have found several amazingly informative and helpful beardie groups on FB.

But, I am also a member of a several of beardie rescue groups -- hence -- seeing some upsetting beardie pix in my feeds.  I continue to follow those groups because I love a happy ending (or, in some cases, at least knowing those BDs last months were filled with love, vet care, etc.).


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## TarantulaArvind (May 18, 2017)

user 666 said:


> Those kind of stories are why I jumped at the chance rescue this beardie. It had already been there for a week with no takers.
> 
> I know Petsmart's history, and even though I wasn't fully prepared for a bearded dragon I knew that I was a hell of a lot better than the alternative.


My understanding is that ppl dont advise others to buy from pet-smart/co etc because this encourages the retail chain to get more stocks(which are then mistreated). but I won't categorise "rescuing a misshappened beardy/T" from them as encouraging the store's behaviour because I feel the very fact that there are no takers for these mishappened- pets shows that  ppl are not interested in buying them coz of the way they have been kept at store. This comes out as a negative feedback against the store and they won't get these pets and/ or mishandle them in future.

In such a scenario, its good that u rescued an animal which had been left to fend for itself, and at the same time doesn't work as a positive appraisal of the store's handling. IMO it's a win-win situation.


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## SmK2192 (Dec 27, 2017)

user 666 said:


> The Petsmart has a Banfield franchise, and according to the vet report the fracture had already healed.
> 
> Only it healed crooked.


Sadly the corporate side of Petsmart doesbt do surgery's very often to save an animal... I know, what they do is terrible


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