# Too hot for roaches?



## Pacmaster (Jun 7, 2009)

I have a nice colony of dubias, that I have been putting outside during the heat of the day here in Sunny Ca . . .
They have been doing great, breeding like crazy . . .

Well, we got some cooler days this weekend so I thought of an idea . . .
I put the colony in a vehicle in my driveway, and the warm interoir of the car shoulda been perfect, even cracked the windows . . .
I know it didnt get past like 90 in there cause it was only like 75 outside with very little direct sun . . .

So when I brought them in last night, all of my adult males were dead, and about 1/3 of the females were dead or dying.
There were dispelled oothicas everywhere, and the alive-ish individual females were about 90% dead/10% alive.

The dubia colony was fine before I did this, and the lobster colony(which was right beside the dubias in the car) came thru the exact same conditions with about 300 new nymphs yesterday . . .

All the dubia nymphs made it just fine also . . .

Do you think it was the temps, or the decreased airflow(both windows cracked 1-2")?

As a side-note, all my frogs got a hearty meal of scorched dubias last night, so they were happy . . .
(the dead roaches were still soft, not "cooked" and hard/crispy, the females werent really even totally dead yet . . .)


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## mitchrobot (Jun 7, 2009)

isnt it easier just to keep a heat light on them? :?

i would guess it be the temp and decreased air flow that killed them. my colony has a hot spot, most of the roaches stay towards that side, but a third of em hand out in the cooler deeper parts of the colony (especially the smallest nymphs)


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## kupo969 (Jun 7, 2009)

You gotta remember even with the windows cracked a bit it is still hotter inside the car (and more humid). 90 OUTSIDE, what about inside an enclosed area like a car? 100?110? 90humidity? 100+?


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## Pacmaster (Jun 7, 2009)

mitchrobot said:


> isnt it easier just to keep a heat light on them? :?
> 
> i would guess it be the temp and decreased air flow that killed them. my colony has a hot spot, most of the roaches stay towards that side, but a third of em hand out in the cooler deeper parts of the colony (especially the smallest nymphs)


The sun is free


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## blazetown (Jun 7, 2009)

Lol. True. The sun is after all a giant fireball though. You must use it wisely or it can burn you grasshopper.


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## Pacmaster (Jun 7, 2009)

kupo969 said:


> You gotta remember even with the windows cracked a bit it is still hotter inside the car (and more humid). 90 OUTSIDE, what about inside an enclosed area like a car? 100?110? 90humidity? 100+?





Pacmaster said:


> I know it didnt get past like 90 in there cause it was only like 75 outside with very little direct sun . . .



  .    .    .   :?


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## xhexdx (Jun 7, 2009)

I think it would be the combination of the temps and higher humidity from inside the car that would have done it, but I could be wrong.


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## Matt K (Jun 7, 2009)

Leaving livestock in a car is never a good idea.  The heat and lack of air circulation is deadly even in those conditions.  Why put them outside at all?  You can keep them inside with no heat light....yoiu could use a vented lid and put a heat mat under one end of the tub if your house is actually that cold.  

IMO, if you cant afford one light bulb or a heat mat for that many roaches to feed your whatevers, then you should not be keeping anything at all because its being very irresponsible.  These hobbies are extremely inexpensive....


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## AbraxasComplex (Jun 7, 2009)

Matt K said:


> IMO, if you cant afford one light bulb or a heat mat for that many roaches to feed your whatevers, then you should not be keeping anything at all because its being very irresponsible.  These hobbies are extremely inexpensive....



What are you talking about? I have over 200 arachnids and only spend $30-40 a month on them, mostly electricity.

The hobby is not expensive if you are smart enough to find the real short cuts. One of mine is using all the veggies my roommates leave and from my parents house that are going bad to feed my feeder colonies. Free roach food.


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## Matt K (Jun 8, 2009)

_AbraxasComplex:_

Yeeesss....Not sure what you mean asking 'what am I talking about'...you just reiterated my point exactly...


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## tjmi2000 (Jun 8, 2009)

That's exactly what I was gonna say!  You asked Matt what he was talking about and then completely agreed with his point.


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## spiderfield (Jun 8, 2009)

I would think the decreased airflow would be the major factor in their demise.  I also live in SoCal (closer to the coast, not sure where you are) and have been keeping my roaches outside for the past couple months.  I have them in an 18 gallon rubber-maid tote with a lid.  One thing I do though is leave the lid partially off to allow air circulation inside the container, particularly on hotter days.  If it ever reaches into the 90s, I, of course, move them into the shade.  On cloudy days, you can just keep the lid snapped on and it will still get warm inside (provided its not storm-cloud-covering).  Once evening sets in I snap that lid back on to maintain whatever warmth is left inside 'til the next morning.  I have had no problems with having them set this way as the adults are still breeding and the nymphs molting.

On a side-note, I also have a 10 gal bucket of crickets set up in the same manner, with the exception of having their lid partially cracked all the time.  This helps provide good air circulation, as well as dry out their frass to prevent mold.

Hope that provides any helpful insight.


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## AbraxasComplex (Jun 8, 2009)

Matt K said:


> _AbraxasComplex:_
> 
> Yeeesss....Not sure what you mean asking 'what am I talking about'...you just reiterated my point exactly...


My apologies... I'm slightly dyslexic. I just read it over about ten times and finally realized it said inexpensive, I thought it said expensive.


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## Matt K (Jun 8, 2009)

no worries!


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## Pacmaster (Jun 10, 2009)

The bottom line, is that I did know better, and even thought to myself it was a bad idea.
But I had to try.

I lost some roaches, but I got plenty more.

Its not the fact that I cant afford 1 more light bulb, its the fact that I didnt want to plug 1 more light bulb in.

I wasnt being irresponsible, just frugal.

I WILL keep my roaches outside, not in the car, but I see no problem with it.

MattK, I know that you know your roaches, but for you to say that I(Pacmaster, Greg) am, in any way shape or form, irresponsible when it comes to my collections, is very upsetting to me.
In all honesty, I really just want to rip you a new one for even saying it, but I wont.


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## cacoseraph (Jun 10, 2009)

in point of fact, without adding water to the air, the RH would go DOWN with an increase in temperature 

i think it is so funny that so many ppl talk about RH without having read anything serious (read: not from another ill informed hobbyist) first.


RH is a ratio of how much water is in the air versus the air's saturation point at that temperature.  the more heat in the air the more water it can hold, thus the same amount of water in the air produces a LOWER RH at higher temps 










also, cars have a tendency to outgas/effervesce all kinds of nasty solvents and plasticizers when it gets warm in them. that is why it smells funny when you get in a hot car.  some of those gaseous products are moderately poisonous to humans and could be the culprit here


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## tabor (Jun 10, 2009)

for what its worth, i used to keep my dubia colony outside in the shade and out of the way of rain during the summer where I live. Keep in mind I live in the South and the temperatures were about 90, and each day is super humid, like %80-90. Dont believe the humidity? ask someone from Florida, Georgia, or Louisiana... it's a different type of heat than you guys out west have. 

During the peak of summer I can even walk to my car without breaking a sweat.

They did seem to breed a lot faster when kept warmer, but it ultimately wasnt worth the risk of ants or other bugs getting in their bins so I now keep them inside.


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## Ihaggerty1313 (Jun 10, 2009)

I think what cacoseraph posted is what is called "breaking it down".  VERY well said.  :clap: Everybody has made mistakes and they are crucial to gaining knowledge and gathering learning experiences. Don't sweat it. 

-Ian
www.theroachranch.com


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## kupo969 (Jun 10, 2009)

cacoseraph said:


> in point of fact, without adding water to the air, the RH would go DOWN with an increase in temperature
> 
> i think it is so funny that so many ppl talk about RH without having read anything serious (read: not from another ill informed hobbyist) first.
> 
> ...



You should come down to South Florida and tell that to the meteorologists, I think they will laugh at you.

Tabor has the right idea. It seems to get more humid as it gets hotter down here, it's ridiculous. He is also right about walking to your car and sweating bullets from the seconds of being outside.


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## Pacmaster (Jun 10, 2009)

I dont think that humidity was the problem.

Im not even sure they got "cooked", as they were still kinda alive.
The males were daed for sure, but the females were on their backs and could move their legs, but would not crawl or move.
ALL the nymphs were just fine!

Its more like they suffered neurological damage . . .

I been to Florida a bunch of times, and know what you guys are saying . . .
It is a completely different situation . . .


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## cacoseraph (Jun 11, 2009)

tabor said:


> for what its worth, i used to keep my dubia colony outside in the shade and out of the way of rain during the summer where I live. Keep in mind I live in the South and the temperatures were about 90, and each day is super humid, like %80-90. Dont believe the humidity? ask someone from Florida, Georgia, or Louisiana... it's a different type of heat than you guys out west have.
> 
> During the peak of summer I can even walk to my car without breaking a sweat.
> 
> They did seem to breed a lot faster when kept warmer, but it ultimately wasnt worth the risk of ants or other bugs getting in their bins so I now keep them inside.





kupo969 said:


> You should come down to South Florida and tell that to the meteorologists, I think they will laugh at you.
> 
> Tabor has the right idea. It seems to get more humid as it gets hotter down here, it's ridiculous. He is also right about walking to your car and sweating bullets from the seconds of being outside.


i hope you two are joking

of course i know it gets hot and humid in the south. *i* have done research on these things =P

having a car in CA getting hot has NOTHING to do with weather conditions in florida or whatever... in most parts of CA the only time we have a high RH is when it is cold.  (that should blow your minds =P ). please do a bit of research on RH.   the amusing thing is that i suspect at least one of you has given a fair amount of advice on RH without actually understanding what they were talking about in the least


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## blazetown (Jun 11, 2009)

Pacmaster said:


> I dont think that humidity was the problem.
> 
> Im not even sure they got "cooked", as they were still kinda alive.
> The males were daed for sure, but the females were on their backs and could move their legs, but would not crawl or move.
> ...


That is weird. I wonder if that would be from chemicals in the interior air like Caco said. I wouldn't be surprised if what he said was true. I wonder if the heat gave them brain damage? You would think that the nymphs would die aswell though. I wonder if some noxious shite was spawned in your car or maybe some free radicals.

http://environment.about.com/od/pollution/a/toxic_cars.htm


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## Pacmaster (Jun 12, 2009)

It is a 15 year old car, there is no more of that going on I think, it smells like cigarettes.

I think it was because they couldnt escape the heat, it wasnt enought to kill all of them, but enought to mess em up good . . .

Id be willing to bet it was like a "microwave" effect, theyre internal temps got too high and caused irrepairable damage.


I did learn my lesson about the car, but the colonies are still outside and have had no more problems, the remaining dubias are still reproducing at a tremendous rate, have gotten a bunch of males from the bigger nymphs, and the amount of smaller ones is incredible.

The lobsters love it outside too!


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## cacoseraph (Jun 12, 2009)

errr.... nicotine is a pretty effective pesticide, iirc

and cars continue to outgas plasticizers until they have none left... at that point the plastic is terribly brittle and somewhat useless


i think your car gets pretty toxic when it warms up!


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## Matt K (Jun 12, 2009)

I might also add that when you have any heat (roaches generate heat en mass) in addition, improper ventilation, a buildup of CO2 in a tub (which is heavier than other components in air) there will be dead roaches.  Again, I cant see why you would not keep your roaches in the house with the rest of your livestock....


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## Pacmaster (Jun 13, 2009)

cacoseraph said:


> and cars continue to outgas plasticizers until they have none left... at that point the plastic is terribly brittle and somewhat useless



Thats about where its at


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## cacoseraph (Jun 13, 2009)

Pacmaster said:


> Thats about where its at


i just rebuilt my center console out of fiberglass =P


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