# A Spider with Mites



## Bill S (Mar 15, 2009)

The topic of mites on spiders comes up often enough here that I thought it might be worth posting a picture of a spider with mites.  The spider in this case is not a tarantula, but a giant crab spider (_Olios_ sp.).







Now - a few comments.  These are true mites attached to the face and chelicerae of the spider.  But they are not parasitizing the spider.  They are phoretic mites, and they utilize the spider purely as a means of distribution.  Larval mites attach to the smooth surfaces, such as on the chelicerae, on or near the eyes, etc.  They attach by means of sucker feet, and will remain attached until they molt - at which time they will fall from their spider host into their new "home".  The old molts will be shed when the spider next molts, or may eventually be removed through grooming.

Some phoretic mites are kleptoparasitic, and will only hold on to the host for transportation from one meal to the next.  They'll let go long enough to share the host's food, and will then reattach for a ride to the next meal.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Kris-wIth-a-K (Mar 15, 2009)

This would be better if you told us how to get rid of them...  Still informative.

:?


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## Endagr8 (Mar 15, 2009)

Do any mites parasitize the host? (not just steal prey) :?  :?


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## Bill S (Mar 15, 2009)

*Endagr8* - yes, there are truly parasitic mites out there.  Most are fairly narrow in their choice of hosts, though.  And that helps keep parasitic mite infestations down. 

*Brachy* - I actually don't try to get rid of these, just observe them.  As long as they are harmless they are just something else to learn from.  If they were harmful, and especially if they could spread to other animals in my collection, I'd no doubt react differently though.  

Isolation would be a good first step.  Mites can't "tele-transport" from one tarantula container to another.  If you keep your caging area clean and keep containers apart from each other, you greatly minimize chances of mites spreading.  If you quarantine spiders known to have parasitic mites and new additions to your collection, that will help.  I don't have any magic solutions for killing parasitic mites on tarantulas, but others here have offered suggestions and ideas.  I think if you can successfully get rid of all mites through one full molt cycle you could remove a tarantula from quarantine - but you should still try to provide conditions that would minimize potential spread of mites.


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## ReMoVeR (Mar 15, 2009)

i think u should get a bad mite photo and a good mite photo for comparison.

That's a good photo though 

Cheers,

//Tiago


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## Miss Bianca (Mar 15, 2009)

there's like, no way the spider's cool with this... I'd try to get rid of them..


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## Neophyte (Mar 15, 2009)

tortuga00 said:


> there's like, no way the spider's cool with this... I'd try to get rid of them..


I don't even know. Personally the photo makes me wonder how I would feel with bugs crawling on my eyes and mouth. I don't know if it would bug the spider as much though. It's pretty much the cycle of nature right?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Bill S (Mar 15, 2009)

tortuga00 said:


> there's like, no way the spider's cool with this... I'd try to get rid of them.


You're anthropomorphizing - placing your own personal (human) feelings on the spider.  The spider doesn't give it a second thought.  (In fact, given their cognitive abilities, doesn't give it a first thought.)  In this case, the spider behaved perfectly normally and made no effort at all to dislodge them.  The mites did not stop it from eating or doing any other spider-things.

I agree with neophyte - I certainly would not be casual about a bunch of bugs attaching themselves to my face.  But I'm a human and have a whole different set of awarenesses and reactions than spiders do.  In the case of the spider, it's just part of the normal cycle of nature.

If it helps you feel more comfortable with the picture - keep in mind that the spider's "face", including its eyes, are covered by a cuticle.  The spider does not feel the presence of the mites.  The ones near the eyes might obscure the vision a little - but the spider's got plenty of eyes and adequate "leftover" vision to take care of its needs.   It's sort of like if you were wearing goggles, and there were a few flies resting on the goggles.  You might notice them, you might not.

As it happens, the mites did soon drop off the spider of their own accord.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Bill S (Mar 15, 2009)

ReMoVeR said:


> i think u should get a bad mite photo and a good mite photo for comparison.


If we find a spider with parasitic mites attached we will certainly photograph it and post pictures here.  And we'd try to get an identification on the mites.

We (my wife and I) have found other animals, from insects to bats and reptiles, with parasitic mites attached, and have photographed them and sent specimens off to a mite expert for identification.  But we so far have not found parasitic mites on spiders.  I'm sure they exist - but given the number and variety of wild spiders we work with, I think it's noteworthy that so far we haven't found parasitic mites on them.  Incidence, at least in this environment, must be pretty low.


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## Bird Man (Mar 15, 2009)

Neophyte said:


> I don't even know. Personally the photo makes me wonder how I would feel with bugs crawling on my eyes and mouth. I don't know if it would bug the spider as much though. It's pretty much the cycle of nature right?



You'd be surprised what's living in your eye lashes.


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## Neophyte (Mar 15, 2009)

Bird Man said:


> You'd be surprised what's living in your eye lashes.


I really don't want to know xD


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## c'est ma (Mar 16, 2009)

Bill S said:


> If we find a spider with parasitic mites attached we will certainly photograph it and post pictures here.  And we'd try to get an identification on the mites.
> 
> We (my wife and I) have found other animals, from insects to bats and reptiles, with parasitic mites attached, and have photographed them and sent specimens off to a mite expert for identification.  But we so far have not found parasitic mites on spiders.  I'm sure they exist - but given the number and variety of wild spiders we work with, I think it's noteworthy that so far we haven't found parasitic mites on them.  Incidence, at least in this environment, must be pretty low.


Wonderful picture and info as always, Bill. 

How much does your mite expert charge for ID? And what else can you tell us about the process?

I've long felt that people often panic unnecessarily about mites...


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## Bill S (Mar 16, 2009)

c'est ma said:


> Wonderful picture and info as always, Bill.
> 
> How much does your mite expert charge for ID? And what else can you tell us about the process?
> 
> I've long felt that people often panic unnecessarily about mites...


I'll give you a more generalized answer here, but I'll also PM you.

Because of work my wife and I are doing with arachnids (and a wide range of other plants and animals) we rely a lot on specialists in other fields to help ID things for us.  There are only a few we've encountered who actully charge to do so.  But....  their time is valuable, as is their expertise.  So we try to work cooperative deals.  We try to do the basic identifications ourselves, or use commonly available resources (bugguide.net is a great one).  Since many of the people we contact for identifications teach or lecture on their subjects, my wife lets them use her photographs for non-commercial educational purposes in an informal "trade" for their help.  We also watch for specimens that they might be interested in.  And when we've turned up something really interesting (such as an insect we found in a cave a couple weeks ago that might turn out to be a new _family_ - a bit above the new _species_ we periodically come across), we will bring the helpful expert in do do some further collecting.  

The usual process is to find an interesting bug, get the best pictures we can of it, and do some basic ID if we can.  We then contact an expert in the field and ask if they are willing to take a look at the specimen or photograph.  If they are, we go from there.  Be respectful of their time and expertise and try to help them in some way, and you'll generally get good results.  But there will always be those who can't be bothered, or forget to get back to you.  Accept that and try someone else next time.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Miss Bianca (Mar 17, 2009)

Bill S said:


> You're anthropomorphizing - placing your own personal (human) feelings on the spider.  The spider doesn't give it a second thought.  (In fact, given their cognitive abilities, doesn't give it a first thought.)  In this case, the spider behaved perfectly normally and made no effort at all to dislodge them.  The mites did not stop it from eating or doing any other spider-things.
> 
> I agree with neophyte - I certainly would not be casual about a bunch of bugs attaching themselves to my face.  But I'm a human and have a whole different set of awarenesses and reactions than spiders do.  In the case of the spider, it's just part of the normal cycle of nature.
> 
> ...



definitely duly noted!


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## c'est ma (Mar 17, 2009)

Bill S said:


> I'll give you a more generalized answer here, but I'll also PM you.
> 
> Because of work my wife and I are doing with arachnids (and a wide range of other plants and animals) we rely a lot on specialists in other fields to help ID things for us.  There are only a few we've encountered who actully charge to do so.  But....  their time is valuable, as is their expertise.  So we try to work cooperative deals.  We try to do the basic identifications ourselves, or use commonly available resources (bugguide.net is a great one).  Since many of the people we contact for identifications teach or lecture on their subjects, my wife lets them use her photographs for non-commercial educational purposes in an informal "trade" for their help.  We also watch for specimens that they might be interested in.  And when we've turned up something really interesting (such as an insect we found in a cave a couple weeks ago that might turn out to be a new _family_ - a bit above the new _species_ we periodically come across), we will bring the helpful expert in do do some further collecting.
> 
> The usual process is to find an interesting bug, get the best pictures we can of it, and do some basic ID if we can.  We then contact an expert in the field and ask if they are willing to take a look at the specimen or photograph.  If they are, we go from there.  Be respectful of their time and expertise and try to help them in some way, and you'll generally get good results.  But there will always be those who can't be bothered, or forget to get back to you.  Accept that and try someone else next time.


Thanks again for so much fascinating info, Bill!  If I were going to get REALLY nosy now, I'd ask if you & your wife are making a living out of such a fantastic set of hobbies!    You must be very well versed in arthropod taxonomy yourselves.  Wow!! a new FAMILY??!!  Uber cool.  BTW, has anyone named anything after you yet?  

I have often been impressed at how many professional scientists are willing to help us if we're respectful and try to learn as much as possible ourselves...but once in a while you'll run into the "any 'pet keeper' is an idiot" attitude...At that point, I contact someone else!

The T hobby seems to have more cred than others, tho.  Probably 'cause we have a long history of "amateurs" like the Schultzes amassing info and sharing it.

Thanks for the PM, too!  Reply to come!


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## Bill S (Mar 17, 2009)

c'est ma said:


> If I were going to get REALLY nosy now, I'd ask if you & your wife are making a living out of such a fantastic set of hobbies!


Now that would be a dream.  But no, like most people, we have to make our livings elsewhere to support our hobbies.  But we've both got strong backgrounds in biology and come from families saturated with "bug people".  My brother works with scorpions and solpugids and is currently involved with the REVSYS project to revise the scorpion family Vaejovidae.  My cousin (who is somewhat of an older brother to me) has described a few species of scorpions as well as the genus _Smeringurus_.  My wife's got a bunch of horticulturists and entomologists in her family.



> You must be very well versed in arthropod taxonomy yourselves.  Wow!! a new FAMILY??!!  Uber cool.  BTW, has anyone named anything after you yet?


We're learning about arthropods - we actually both came from other fields and are now discovering what other family members have been telling us about for years.  Someone did offer to name a scorpion after my wife, but the offer was rejected.  (We lean toward the idea that the name should describe some feature of the animal or its location.)  However, by an odd quirk, there is a cave named after me (Bill's Cave).  That came about when an entomologist from the Cal Academy of Sciences described a new species of spider that came out of that cave.  The cave had been unnamed, and I had guided him to the cave - so in his species description he noted the collecting locality as "Bill's Cave".  We have since built a house near the cave and have found several new species of arachnids there.  

The "new family" is still, in my opinion, pretty speculative.  Time will tell.



> I have often been impressed at how many professional scientists are willing to help us if we're respectful and try to learn as much as possible ourselves...but once in a while you'll run into the "any 'pet keeper' is an idiot" attitude...At that point, I contact someone else!


Yup.  The anti-pet keeper attitude comes up in other fields of biology too.  I tend to see it as an insecurity issue ("Only MY way of looking at things is correct, and I won't deal with anyone who challenges it!")  But real scientists generally appreciate the chance to share knowledge and ideas with others even distantly connected to their fields.


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## Bill S (Mar 17, 2009)

ReMoVeR said:


> i think u should get a bad mite photo and a good mite photo for comparison.


OK.  Mites need some good publicity, and I found a couple pictures of "good" mites - two local species of Trombidiid mites.  These guys are not parasitic.  In fact, they are predacious.  Even better - they are big.  (Well, for mites anyway.  They have body sizes of around 1/4 inch or so.)


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## brandi71183 (Mar 18, 2009)

*ewww*



Bird Man said:


> You'd be surprised what's living in your eye lashes.


Now I feel all itchy!! LOL


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## Miss Bianca (Mar 18, 2009)

oh wow those look awesomeeeee... and very  RED... very cool...


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## Bill S (Mar 18, 2009)

tortuga00 said:


> oh wow those look awesomeeeee... and very  RED... very cool...


Yup.  They're cool animals.  We find them after the summer monsoons start, usually early in the morning.  They're day-glow colors make them very noticeable.  They're usually called "velvet mites".


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## c'est ma (Mar 19, 2009)

Beautiful mites!  Wonderful pics of wonderful picture subjects.  Mites do fascinate me--I even get aquatic ones in my water gardens.  Does anyone know why so many of them are aposematic?

Bill, I think having a cave named after you is about as cool as it gets!  But you'd better put up a plaque--lots of other Bills could take credit for it. 

I am very envious of your family background and extended family's varied natural history interests.  I had to get where I am after starting out with an "eek-a-bug" Mom...my kids, on the other hand, have grown up with a little bit of everything that could be captured and studied for a while.  (So one now wants to create video games and the other wants to be a nurse.  Sigh.)

Cheers!


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## wedge07 (Mar 19, 2009)

Thank you Bill and...


Bird Man said:


> You'd be surprised what's living in your eye lashes.


Bird man you have officially creeped me out, I am going to find a way to clean my eyelashes now...


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## Bill S (Mar 20, 2009)

c'est ma said:


> Bill, I think having a cave named after you is about as cool as it gets!  But you'd better put up a plaque--lots of other Bills could take credit for it.


Actually, we've negotiated access rights to the cave and have it gated now.  And we've discussed buying the land that it's on so that we can protect it.



> I am very envious of your family background and extended family's varied natural history interests.  I had to get where I am after starting out with an "eek-a-bug" Mom...my kids, on the other hand, have grown up with a little bit of everything that could be captured and studied for a while.  (So one now wants to create video games and the other wants to be a nurse.  Sigh.)


While my wife and I both had a lot of biologists of various sorts in our families, my parents were not among them.  My father, in particular, never adjusted well to being surrounded by animals that either creeped him out or outright frightened him.  He still mutters about having produced a bunch of biologists.


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## Sky`Scorcher (Mar 20, 2009)

Those mites sure are fluffy  

They're like walking fuzzy pin cushions


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## c'est ma (Mar 22, 2009)

Bill S said:


> Actually, we've negotiated access rights to the cave and have it gated now.  And we've discussed buying the land that it's on so that we can protect it.


Wow, how cool would that be?!  (Sorry, enthusiasm overtakes grown-up language...)




> While my wife and I both had a lot of biologists of various sorts in our families, my parents were not among them.  My father, in particular, never adjusted well to being surrounded by animals that either creeped him out or outright frightened him.  He still mutters about having produced a bunch of biologists.


Funny how things go.  At least you & your wife found each other.  My husband's a scientist--a biochemist with "big Pharma."  And his hobby's golf.  

--Diane


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## ReMoVeR (Mar 22, 2009)

ohhh those are mites??!!! damn!! didn't know all those red "spiders" i used to see around the summer since i was a lil kid were mites hihihi xDD nice. and they look AWESOME!!! x))

//Tiago


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## dfourer (Oct 5, 2009)

I call these velvet mites.  I see them out in the open, aparently scavanging or hunting in plain sight.  Nice photos.  I never really looked into their biology.


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## Mack&Cass (Oct 6, 2009)

That's very interesting. We actually had an H. lightfooti come in with some mites a little while back. They're pretty small and white. There's usually about 6 of them in the area between the prosoma and opisthosoma (I can't remember the term offhand). We've tried to get them off with a paintbrush but that T is so freakin' fast. I'd post a picture to see what you think, but the T is only about 1", which makes photographing the mites difficult. They don't seem to be affecting him at all though, he's still fast as lightning, eats like a horse and he's molted already no problem. I believe they're just hitchhiking, but any advice from you would be fantastic.


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## cacoseraph (Oct 6, 2009)

i thought i had read that (some/all?) of velvet mites *are* parasitic in their young phase and then turn to straight predation when they mature?


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## jcornish86 (Oct 6, 2009)

Bird Man said:


> You'd be surprised what's living in your eye lashes.


thanks as soon as i saw this i started rubbing my eyes hahaha


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## Bill S (Oct 6, 2009)

cacoseraph said:


> i thought i had read that (some/all?) of velvet mites *are* parasitic in their young phase and then turn to straight predation when they mature?


Yes. In their early stage they are parasitic - but not in the adult form shown here.  Most parasitic forms are pretty limited as to what they can parasitize.  Not sure about what these guys go after as youngsters.


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## cacoseraph (Oct 6, 2009)

i tried to culture these... then got paranoids and wiped the culture

i had adults going strong for 3-4 months (er, at least they didn't die in that time heh)... i put mangled roaches in from time to time and had sub from cages that had grain mites in it. 

don't know if any of it was working or not, cuz some bugs er... just take a really long time to die and it can be mistaken for doing "ok" with them


my psuedoscorp forays taught me that :/








the velvet mites are interesting because there are periods where they are very common in some areas i frequent.  there are days i can find 5-10 under almost every rock i flip... then later i the week, in the same area you can't find ANY... but go back two days later and the joint is crawling with little neon red dots


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## Bill S (Oct 6, 2009)

cacoseraph said:


> my psuedoscorp forays taught me that :/


My wife has been dabbling with pseudoscorps.  She's got one female that is currently on at least its fourth litter of babies, and it hasn't been with a male the whole time my wife has had it.  

For those not familiar with pseudoscorps, they are bizarre.  They  produce venom in their claws, and "nurse" their young.  (Not quite "nurse" in the sense that mammals do, but something similar.  The ovaries produce a "milk", and the growing embryos hang on the underside of the female and live off that milk.)


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