# Virginia creeper?



## Biollantefan54 (Sep 7, 2015)

I was just outside and I noticed some Virginia creeper and now I am wondering if it would be safe to use in an enclosure? You find it growing everywhere, in dirt, on buildings, and up trees. Seem great for an enclosure, is it safe to use? Easy to grow? I wouldn't mind trimming it often if I had to. Just curious.
There are some other vines with small leaves as well, I just noticed them and am curious if they would work or not.


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## The Snark (Sep 7, 2015)

Well, the berries contain oxalic acid so caution would be advised keeping herbivorous animals with it.

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## Biollantefan54 (Sep 7, 2015)

Would it be fine in a tarantula enclosure? I have read about the berries, I am just curious if I can just grab some and then set it up in a tank instead of buying some pothos, plus it would look different


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## BobGrill (Sep 7, 2015)

Biollantefan54 said:


> Would it be fine in a tarantula enclosure? I have read about the berries, I am just curious if I can just grab some and then set it up in a tank instead of buying some pothos, plus it would look different [emoji14]


I think what he's getting at is that prey items such as crickets could feed on it, which in turn is obviously dangerous to the tarantula. 

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk

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## Biollantefan54 (Sep 7, 2015)

BobGrill said:


> I think what he's getting at is that prey items such as crickets could feed on it, which in turn is obviously dangerous to the tarantula.
> 
> Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk


Ah...that's not at all what I gathered from his statement, I thought he was saying not to keep say, katydids or reptiles in with it. But yeah, that makes sense.


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## The Snark (Sep 7, 2015)

I have no idea what animals eat those berries, small critter wise. Birds like them though which proves how weird birds can be. It would certainly be prudent to watch out for some feeder pigging out on the berries, concentrating the acid.
If memory serves, somebody on AB was well versed in Oxalates and could fill in some blanks. Maybe Pitbulllady.

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## Biollantefan54 (Sep 7, 2015)

I was thinking of putting it in with my Theraphosa enclosure IF they are safe and I can keep them alive, feeders don't usually last long in there to do much of anything. Hopefully some one can give me some more information


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## Galapoheros (Sep 7, 2015)

I'd go for it.  It's all over my yard too, a local Sphinx caterpillar feeds on the leaves.  Things it might be toxic to will normally stay away from it.  I have native T holes right next to it.  The toxicity issue is not a worry.  The caution is blown up imo, how does anything survive out there if it's all so bad?!


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## The Snark (Sep 7, 2015)

Galapoheros said:


> I'd go for it.  It's all over my yard too, a local Sphinx caterpillar feeds on the leaves.  Things it might be toxic to will normally stay away from it.  I have native T holes right next to it.  The toxicity issue is not a worry.  The caution is blown up imo, how does anything survive out there if it's all so bad?!


True, but synthesized restrictive environments can easily concentrate hazards. I also wouldn't go by what caterpillars are eating. The hornworm loves nicotiana and oleander as example.


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## Galapoheros (Sep 8, 2015)

I didn't mean to imply that with the caterpillars, just some trivia.  It's that I think the caution on such things is exaggerated all over the internet.  Of course many plants have toxins and is the reason some things don't eat it them, some do because they can handle it, some use the toxins as a defense or both.  When they do, things that would eat those things don't because they often taste bad.  It seems a little irrational at times to be so afraid.  "Don't put juniper in your terrariums", I find centipedes and all kind of things under juniper.  "Don't use calcite sand."  "Calcium carbonate is bad for scorpions", the Texas hill country is calcium carbonate.  Too much caution and fear over things that are probably not worth worrying about much of the time.  I understand people being cautious but to keep from going hypo, it might be good to consider that many times things like this aren't a problem but that it's only a precaution based on weak odds something bad will happen.

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## The Snark (Sep 8, 2015)

Well, as usual. There was a brilliant down-to-earth piece written I read recently that lucidly explained things and I can't find it. It was all about bio-diversity and it's mitigating effects. Essentially, the planet is up to it's eyeballs in harmful or hazardous plants and organisms and it is entirely due to the diversity that keeps virtually any given ecosystem from becoming hostile to nearly all higher order animals.

Anyway, the diversity in terrariums is a luxury that seldom exists. A normal moisture and humidity content animals thrive in can become lethal without certain cobionts and cobiotics present. A harmless plant may become a bio-hazard. A group of harmless plants may alter the biology to a cut off point where it no longer will sustain the necessary microorganisms.

So what works in the wild is really rarely a safe rule of thumb in these synthesized environments even though everything appears to be normal. Animals kept in them may be close to a razors edge die off that simply cannot be projected or predicted.

On a large scale this is happening all over the world with factory farming that doesn't take in to account the larger scale that nature uses to maintain a balance. Many harmful organisms and animals that are eradicated wholesale are revealed to be necessary the promote a healthy environment. As the saying goes, life doesn't live in a vacuum.


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## Galapoheros (Sep 8, 2015)

He’s considering a tarantula which typically lives in a small bio that is not very diverse. It’s a common plant here, the risk is very low.  The info is on the internet as you know, why others don’t look around, I don’t know, maybe they just looking for social interaction.  Virginia Creeper is prob a good experimental plant, not so much in the context that it might hurt your T but more so in seeing if it can handle the artificial light.

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## Biollantefan54 (Sep 8, 2015)

I tried to search for it being used in a terrarium but didn't find much which is why I asked here, thanks for all the info though


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## Galapoheros (Sep 8, 2015)

After doing a simple search and not coming up with much, that's an incentive for experimentation imo, I'd give it a try.  It might need trimming like you said you don't mind doing.  I see them in alkaline soil much of the time.  If you use a grow light, something to experiment with might be sweet potato bought from an organic grocery store.  I put one in a pot, I was just curious, it looks OK, some people use them for ground cover.

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## Biollantefan54 (Sep 8, 2015)

I will experiment with it, I am terrible with plants which is another reason I wondered about this. I find them growing in all types of places plus, I don't want to spend money on a plant only for me to kill it! I also asked here because, since I didn't find much, I didn't want to just toss it in with a T and hope it wouldn't hurt the spider


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## Galapoheros (Sep 8, 2015)

Common sense and critical thinking goes a long way. You didn't find much because maybe nobody has tried it and posted.  A truth might be that nobody knows.  Yeah you decided to look around to see if you could fish for those that tried it and didn't post, but other than that, you will only get biased speculations.  There is a moderate entry point there in-between.  imo, it's next to a nothing risk to see if the creeper works or not.  Add some isopods, moisture and see what happens.  I wonder if dichondra would work OK with the light restrictions.  I have a lot of it in pots with other plants, considered a weed here in the Austin area.

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