# Unusual mite problem



## Satellite Rob (Aug 2, 2009)

I hope all of you don't think i'm crazy.But i'm very concerned about it since it's 
Hardwickei.I have a Hardwickei that has grain mites.There only on cephalic 
plate and on tergite 1 and 2.Thay are a very small mite that needs at least 
25 power on my microscope to see them and at 40 power you can see them 
really good.But thats not the problem.I set her on dry paper towel and will 
usually take care of the mites in a couple of weeks.Now that I her on paper towel 
i've been removing her turds with a tweezer from her container.Now hears 
where it gets strange.I missed a couple of days of clean up and was removing the turds
and I noticed that some of the turds have a larger of mite type on some of 
the turds.Thay look like the usual white mite that everyboby gets from time 
to time.When I looked at them under the microscope I could see mites and 
mite eggs.Now I looked at the other turds and I could see mites or mite eggs 
on all of the turds.Now I waited for a fresh turd and when I found one it had  
mite eggs to.So now I checked the turds of some of the other Hardwickei's 
and about half of them have mites to.I've have never herd of a internal mite. 
If anyone has herd,seen or have any iinfomation that might help.Please make 
a post.The only good news is that thay don't seem to be causing any problems 
with the Hardwickei.Thay are all eating great and acting normally.But now I know 
that thay are there.I can't stop worrying. 

PS:The mites are not born alive.There always start with eggs and take a couple 
of days to hatch.


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## Galapoheros (Aug 2, 2009)

I "think" I know what you're talking about.  If it's what I think you're talking about, my guess has always been that this is how pedes get rid of uric acid, ..like snakes and birds, it will be white.  In the pede turd lol, they are very small, white and look very round.  I don't know if this is what the small round things are, it just made some sense to me and is my guess.  It's been mentioned before in one or two older threads.


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## Elytra and Antenna (Aug 2, 2009)

Mites are likely to feed on frass that has feeder insect parts. Mites move quickly and can find food easily. It's far more likely they walked to the food. The feeding form and the hypopus form of the same species look incredibly different.


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## Satellite Rob (Aug 2, 2009)

I will start by changing the paper towel and also change there container daily  
until the mite problem is over.But the frass I collected was less than 2 minutes 
after it was dropped and it went right to the microscope.The mite eggs were 
there already.Not just on the outside.The egg were also in the center.Then I 
placed the frass in a vial on moist paper towel without air holes.The eggs   
hatched couple of days later into mites.I will be watching the S.Hardwickei 
closely and the next time I see her defecate.I will immediately remove and 
put under the microscope.Then place in a clean new vial on moist paper 
towel and hope for different results.I will post the results of this experiment 
when I have them.


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## szappan (Aug 2, 2009)

I know it's practically impossible since you're viewing all this under a microscope, but it'd be great to see some pics so that I (and perhaps others) know what to look for – I've never had to deal with mites.

Regardless, good luck with your experiments and I hope the 'pede will be alright.


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## Lucas339 (Aug 2, 2009)

i have something similar happening with my millipedes.  i have one pede that has mites all over its legs.  these mites are small and almost colorless.   after discovering these, i went through the rest of my collection.  i found that none of the others had the clear mites on their legs but all of them had larger white mites all over the cucumbers in their tubs.  i had cucumber and lettuce in each tub and they were only on the cucumber.


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## skips (Aug 2, 2009)

Lucas339 said:


> i have something similar happening with my millipedes.  i have one pede that has mites all over its legs.  these mites are small and almost colorless.   after discovering these, i went through the rest of my collection.  i found that none of the others had the clear mites on their legs but all of them had larger white mites all over the cucumbers in their tubs.  i had cucumber and lettuce in each tub and they were only on the cucumber.


That could be a bit different however.  Im not sure about all millipedes but the species ive had experience with carry a phoretic species of mite which, by definition, are not parasitic.  They "hop a ride" on you millipede to get to a food source.  Usually if you see mites and they're not congregating at the joints of your animal and are moving, its more likely that they are not hurting your animal.  at least not directly.  I encourage anyone with more experience to agree or disagree.

As for the OP....im still not sure what OP stands for but i'm pretty sure it means the person that posted the thread. anyway, there are such things as endoparasitic mites.  http://www.jstor.org/stable/3223339 I would agree that the most likely explanation is that the mites walked to the doo doo, but your evidence is very interesting.


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## Lucas339 (Aug 3, 2009)

i know of the hitch-hiker mites and these are not them.  the hitch-hikers are brown in color, these are white and are only on the food.  the parasitic form of the mite is clear.


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## skips (Aug 3, 2009)

Lucas339 said:


> i know of the hitch-hiker mites and these are not them.  the hitch-hikers are brown in color, these are white and are only on the food.  the parasitic form of the mite is clear.


hmm...maybe try H. miles and see if that works.  I've heard it suggested several times but only a few people doing the suggesting have actually used them.


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## presurcukr (Aug 5, 2009)

szappan said:


> I know it's practically impossible since you're viewing all this under a microscope, but it'd be great to see some pics so that I (and perhaps others) know what to look for – I've never had to deal with mites.
> 
> Regardless, good luck with your experiments and I hope the 'pede will be alright.


well i just got back from viewing Satellite Rob's pede's frass under the microscope and 100% sure that what i saw was Eggs in and on the frass don't know what type of mite or parasite could lay eggs in and on the frass that fast unless it was internal is there any internal parasite that pass eggs from peeds??


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## beetleman (Aug 5, 2009)

yup, saw it also,he came into my work,i saw it also it's very strange,the eggs were in the feces,it lookslike they were internal,the centie crapped out the feces,and the eggs were in the feces:? never saw anything like this,maybe some internal parasite? don't know.


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## Galapoheros (Aug 5, 2009)

Are they "snow" white?  I guess you don't have the equipment there to get any pics?  I can't wait to see pics of the turd!  I've seen something that sounds like what you're describing, hard to imagine what's being looked at without pics.


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## Galapoheros (Aug 5, 2009)

Here's an old thread I was reminded of.  It sounds very similar but it's hard to say anymore without being able to see.
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=76943&highlight=eggs+in+poo


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## Satellite Rob (Aug 6, 2009)

Hi Pete and Rob, 
Today I watch a S.Hardwickei defecate and was waiting with tweezers to 
retrieve it.It was not on the freshly changed dry paper towels for more than 
5 seconds before I picked it up.Then put on my microscope and checked the 
frass for eggs.The were eggs in the frass.The same as it was in 20 different  
frass I checked before.I have never found a live mite on a fresh frass yet.It  
takes a few days for them to hatch.Then you find hundreds of lemon shaped  
mites.You can see there body,head,legs and spinnerets.Were are these eggs 
coming from.I thought mites need air to survive.All 12 S.Harwickei's are doing 
great.All of them ate today and don't suffer from any problems from the mites. 
I'm going to start checking the frass from other pede species to see if other 
are carrying mites to.If you have a microscope please check your pedes and 
post your results.I'm posting a picture so you can see what i'm talking about. 
You have to bring up the magnification to 400%.But you can clearly see them. 
Thanks Pete,Rob.Phil and Joe for thanking the time took look and lend some 
help today.Everybody must think i'm nuts to take the time to look at frass.  
I bet if other people took the time to use a microscope and to look.Thay 
might find similar results.I can't be the only guy that looks at this kind of stuff. 
If anybody would like a sample to check out and document these findings. 
Either PM,email or make a post and ask for it.I would be happy to send it to 
you.I hope to have better pictures tomorrow.Because my friend Phil took 
some better pictures today and I hope to have them emailed to me tomorrow.


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## lilmoonrabbit (Aug 6, 2009)

skips said:


> As for the OP....im still not sure what OP stands for but i'm pretty sure it means the person that posted the thread. anyway, there are such things as endoparasitic mites.  http://www.jstor.org/stable/3223339 I would agree that the most likely explanation is that the mites walked to the doo doo, but your evidence is very interesting.


 OP stands for original poster, so you are correct


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## Lucas339 (Aug 6, 2009)

any way you can put these aside and let them hatch out to make sure they are mites?

i know you said you see the eggs and then the mites come but i don't think any mites can be an internal thing.  IMO i think the mites are living in the soil and are eating the frass.

it would be interesting to hatch these out in a sterile container.

i have millis and i will check their feces.  i have seen similar mites.


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## Galapoheros (Aug 6, 2009)

That's a good idea.  Another prob is that once it hits the dirt, maybe 100s of microscopic mite eggs stick to it, eggs so tiny you can't see at all with the naked eye, so it may look like they hatch out of the round white balls in the frass.  Seems like those white balls in the frass would be way too big to be mite eggs, but I can't look at any pics, lol I know it's frustrating to you Rob.


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## Oasis Inverts (Aug 6, 2009)

beetleman said:


> yup, saw it also,he came into my work,i saw it also it's very strange,the eggs were in the feces,it lookslike they were internal,the centie crapped out the feces,and the eggs were in the feces:? never saw anything like this,maybe some internal parasite? don't know.


Yeah very strange when Rob sent me the pic's last night I was in ahhhhh I have never seen mite eggs or even heard of internal parasites inside of another invertebrate Rob you may have sutmbled apon a great discovery....The discovery of internal parasites inside centipede poop!

Only you Rob to notice mite eggs in pede poop!!!!!


Later brother


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## Satellite Rob (Aug 7, 2009)

Hi Galapoheros, 
I watched her drop her load and picked it up in less than 5 seconds.Even if 
she droped the frass on a group of mites.The mites can't lay hundreds of egg 
in less than a minute.Plus I never found a live mite on a fresh frass yet.For 
the last month i've been keeping 5 different S.Hardwickei's on dry paper 
towels without a water dish.Thay have not been on any substrate other than 
paper towel for more than a month.I put a water dish in with them once 
every 2 days for an hour.So thay can drink and then I remove it.I change the 
paper towel once a day and change there containers with a clean 196 oz. - 
9.75"x8" deli's.There is no way any mite is going to crawl on the frass.I have 
been feeding them 2 crickets a day.I get my cricket from Ghanns cricket farm 
once a week.I clean and wash my cricket tub every time I get new crickets. 
1 day a week I feed them silk worms and another day I feed them roaches.  
I like to vary there food as much as possibly.I don't like to feed them the 
same food every day.Once a month I feed then frozen pinky's.I soak them in 
warm water to thaw them.Then I pick them up with tweezers.Then I tap them  
on the head a couple of times with the pinky and thay grab it.All 12 of my 
S.Hardwickei's will eat frozen pinky's.Let me get back on topic.So I don't 
know were these mite eggs are coming from.There not coming from there 
food or there environment.I have 3 frass cultures i'm timing to find out exactly 
how long it takes the mites to hatch.I'll post the results when thay all cultures hatch. 
I've been trying to do this as scientificly as possibly from my home.I have 
been keeping records.But still some people think i'm going crazy.Now i'm going 
to repete myself again.The frass never has live mites on it.The frass only has 
eggs.There not coming from the substrate.Because there being kept on bone 
dry paper towel without a water bowl.I have not found a mite in any of the 5 
containers and i've been checking with a strong magnifying glass daily.Where 
are these mite eggs coming from.The only thing keeping me sane.Is that it
doesn't seem to be harming the S.Hardwickei's at all and thay eat anything 
you give them.


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## Lucas339 (Aug 7, 2009)

wow thats crazy rob.  keep us posted on the hatching of the eggs.


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## CID143ti (Aug 7, 2009)

This may have nothing to do with it but it came to mind when I saw that you feed them frozen mice.  I recently took a snake to my vet and had a fecal culture done.  We found both mite eggs and dead mites in the stool.  My vet remarked that they didn't look like reptile mites and since the snake didn't have mites the best conclusion he came up with was that the mites were coming from the frozen mice.  The stool was collected by palpating the snake...so it's likely that there was no contamination.  Although this was not the problem with the snake it was really interesting to see under the scope.  Sadly, I don't have any pics but it might be something to check into.

W. Smith


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## Galapoheros (Aug 7, 2009)

Hmm, this is getting really strange.  Wish you had one of those PC microscopes Rob, but you spent all the money on those pedes!


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## beetleman (Aug 7, 2009)

hmmm.........hardwicki mites i think i'm getting something..........


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## Satellite Rob (Aug 7, 2009)

Hi Pete,
Can you see if you can get those pictures sent to me. satelliterob5@aol.com


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## Galapoheros (Aug 7, 2009)

You getting some mites beetleman, are they coming with pedes?  I'm looking for those mites then too.


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## Satellite Rob (Aug 7, 2009)

Here are some better pictures.But you have to go to the bottom right side of 
your screen and magnify 200% or 400%.


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## Galapoheros (Aug 7, 2009)

Interesting, I feel like I've seen that before.  We can't zoom in anymore though on this site like you prob can at the site where you loaded the pics.  What do the mites look like?  So you say if you put that doo doo  on moist paper you see mites hatch out of those?

You can load a pic straight to this site in it's original size if you want.  After you click "post reply", there is a small paper clip at the top of the box you type in and to the right of a smilie face, you can click on that, a browse box comes up to find the pic on your computer, you can click that and load a pic that way at any size.  I know sounds complicated at first and don't know if I explained it right anyway.


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## Satellite Rob (Aug 7, 2009)

I've hatched them out already.Thay are a cream colored mite.There body is 
lemom shaped.I can see see the head,legs and spinnerets.I have to use a microscope  
to see this.But thay are definitely mites and thay look like your common mite. 
That all T and pede keepers see all the time.I think this is alot more common 
than anybody thinks.But nobody takes the time to look.I can't be the only one 
that has a microscope.It you have a microscorp take a look at any pede fresh 
pede frass.It doesn't have to be a Harwickei.You just might be surprized.


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## Galapoheros (Aug 7, 2009)

I plan on getting one of those PC microscopes, I think they are $100 to $200.  I think I'd like messing around with it if I bought one.  It hooks up right to your PC.  You can take pics and look at the stuff live on your PC screen, sounds pretty cool!


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## skips (Aug 8, 2009)

Lucas339 said:


> any way you can put these aside and let them hatch out to make sure they are mites?
> 
> i know you said you see the eggs and then the mites come but i don't think any mites can be an internal thing.  IMO i think the mites are living in the soil and are eating the frass.
> 
> ...


I was also under the impression that mites were purely external, but i've posted a reference on this thread and here's another stating otherwise.  At this point I dont know how they could _not_ be endoparasitic mites.  I'm going to visit my zoo in the next couple days.  Our bug people are phenomenal.  Maybe they'd have a comment.

http://www.mapress.com/zootaxa/2008/f/z01951p152f.pdf


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## meso (Aug 8, 2009)

Lucas339 said:


> any way you can put these aside and let them hatch out to make sure they are mites?
> 
> i know you said you see the eggs and then the mites come but i don't think any mites can be an internal thing.  IMO i think the mites are living in the soil and are eating the frass.
> 
> ...


Hello!
If I understood right, on pics are only eggs of those mites ? Could You get some picture of mites as well ? 
Well, for the vertabrates are lots of endoparasitic mites, that's right.


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## Satellite Rob (Aug 8, 2009)

Hi skips, 
I've been keeping 5 of my 12 S.Hardwickei's bone dry paper towels for more 
than a month.Every frass i've checked under a microscope for more than a  
month has mite eggs on them.None of the frass samples had a single live mite  
on any of them since I move them to sterile containers. Everbody wants to 
dismiss my claims do to environmental contamination.No one wants to consider
I might be right.Well i've been keeping my experiment a sterile as humanly 
possibly under home conditions.Now I feel I have the proof to back my claims. 
I've already hatched out my frass samples and produced mites.I have 4 more 
frass cultures and thay should be hatching out in the next couple days.I have 
not seem a mite in over a month.But I still have eggs in every frass I check. 
If there are no mites in there containers.Where are these eggs coming from.
I've been checking there containers daily with a strong magnafing glass and
not found a single mite in more than a month.Since I started this project.
I've been cleaning there containers with a 5% bleach and water solution daily 
I also been keeping S.Hardwickei's on dry paper towel and changing it daily. 
Well now I fell I have the proof and i'm willing to back it.I would be willing to 
send 1 of my S.Hardwickei's to anyone who is qualified to document this and 
share there findings with me.I don't want to share in the credit.I just want 
you to share your findings with me.There would be 2 things I need before I 
ship the animals. 

1-Proof that you are qualified to do this experiment. 
2-Proof that you can provide a sterile environment to do this experiment 
properly.I would prefer a zoo or university.But any qualified person would be 
considered. 

Well the offer is out there.Do we have any takers.


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## SAn (Aug 8, 2009)

I doubt those are mite eggs. Some kind of fungus maybe. I have those on the pede feces in every pede enclosure but they never turn to be mites.
Its harmful mites only if they go all over on your inverts.

You ll probably end up killing the pedes if you worry so much.


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## Elytra and Antenna (Aug 8, 2009)

Satellite Rob said:


> Hi skips,
> Everbody wants to
> dismiss my claims do to environmental contamination.No one wants to consider
> I might be right.


It just doesn't make much sense. Where are these big female mites laying all these eggs? Inside your centipedes? They used to think maggots came from rotting meat (rather than fly eggs).


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## Satellite Rob (Aug 8, 2009)

Hi SAn, 
I'm sorry to say you wrong and you don't know what your talking about.I 
already proved to my friends and people that matter to me.Thay are eggs 
and if you would look at them under a microscope you would see that.If you 
look at 2 post on this thread.The post were made on 08-05-2009.The first 
post was by presurcukr at 8:39 PM and the other post was by Beetleman 
on the same day at 9:56 PM.Thay were 100% sure thay were looking at some 
kind of eggs.I've already hatched out 6 cultures of mites and I have 4 more 
cultures that will hatch out in a couple of days.That day a couple of other 
people witnessed the eggs.But thay chose not to post.Because of people like 
you.People like you who look at a simple picture and think thay know more.By 
the way I found 6 other reports of people reporting the same thing.So maybe 
you should do a little investigating before you post.Now i've showed a dozen 
different people my research and convinced them all.If you had a microscope 
I would happy to send you a frass.This way you could have something to 
base your opinion on.I have proof to convince anyone.But I need to show them 
in person.This way I can show my Hardwickei's,records and precedures.There 
is 1 thing I can guarantee.If S.Hardwickei's have this parasite.There are alot 
more Asian centipedes that have the same mite and if people take the time 
to look at there frass under a microscope thay will find the eggs too.This is 
not isolated incident.


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## SAn (Aug 8, 2009)

ok i am wrong.
Aliens throw mites in your everyday clean enclosures.

Must be pure air parthenogenesis. You ll be famous.  

( and no i dont want you to send me pede shit. Keep them  )


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## Satellite Rob (Aug 8, 2009)

Hi Elytra and Antenna, 
I'm the first to admit it.It doesn't make any sence.But I can't get alround my 
research.I would be glad to send you one.So you can see for your self.This 
way you can do your own research.All I can tell you is that I sterilize there 
containers with a 5% bleach and water solution daily and I change the dry 
paper towels in there containers daily.Still every frass thay drop has eggs in 
it.I've never found a live mite on any of there fresh frass.But all my frass 
cultures hatch mites.I'm offering you a chance to see it your self.The only 
condition is you return the hardwickei when your done.This way you can 
learn about S.Hardwickei and take a bunch  of pictures.There a the best 
pedes I own and very easy to care for.If you want to talk about this PM me.


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## Satellite Rob (Aug 8, 2009)

Hay San, 
You are right about 1 thing.I'm sorry for that last post.You are entitled to your own opinion.


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## SAn (Aug 8, 2009)

WOW!! You work under a dealer so you are a pro at smuggling hardwickei eh? 

 It must be a fantastic job to pick up pede shit every day and analyze them  
I am sure you know a whole crap more than me

:worship: :worship: :worship:


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## skips (Aug 8, 2009)

do I smell pissing contest?  Keep it civil.  What do you care if he's right or wrong?


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## skips (Aug 8, 2009)

There's an acarologist on another forum I asked about this.  he said he couldnt say much without pictures of the mites.  Is that possible?


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## SAn (Aug 8, 2009)

I dont.. I just gave an opinion but obviously no one should mess with the 20 years of experience. He should make statements instead of asking questions so we all learn.


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## Satellite Rob (Aug 8, 2009)

Satellite Rob said:


> Hay San,
> You are right about 1 thing.I'm sorry for that last post.You are entitled to your own opinion.


Hi San, 
I would just like to take some time to say i'm sorry again.I was angry and 
frustrated about something else.You just picked the wrong time to make a 
post.If thats how i'm going to respond to members.Then I shouldn't be 
making threads.I had to go out right after I made that post.When I returned 
and read it.I thought to myself what a jerk I was.So thanks for post and i'll 
never do that anyone ever again.


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## SAn (Aug 9, 2009)

Ok Rob,

I came at you as well because of the the initial answer of yours since i considered it impolite. Just wanted to give you a different view of those pics you posted. 
I would advise to keep the pedes in normal conditions and if you see mites crawl all over them use hypoaspis miles. They work like a charm. 
In fact i use them very 4-5 months as a precaution anyway.


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## KyuZo (Aug 9, 2009)

SAn said:


> Ok Rob,
> 
> I came at you as well because of the the initial answer of yours since i considered it impolite. Just wanted to give you a different view of those pics you posted.
> I would advise to keep the pedes in normal conditions and if you see mites crawl all over them use hypoaspis miles. They work like a charm.
> In fact i use them very 4-5 months as a precaution anyway.


SAn, 
do u keep the hypoaspis miles culture alive and well fed and cultivate them every 4-5 months for your pedes or do u order a new colony every 4-5 months?

if you culture your own Hypoaspis miles, then can you tell me how? what do u feed them?


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## SAn (Aug 9, 2009)

Kyuzo,

I order the miles. They are cheaper to order than cultivate them. 1 bottle costs like 10-15 euro and can go for over 100 pedes.
Cultivating them needs time, proper tanks, humidity, food etc etc.. a big mess  

If you cant find any or they cost a lot, you should really consider springtails.
I haven't used them but i know some people who find those very effective since
they eat all the leftovers of food and feces ASAP and thus they give no room
for mite growth


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## KyuZo (Aug 9, 2009)

yup, for all my cages, i am currently using isopods and springtails, and they work out great.

I was just curious about the H. miles that you're working with, that's all.


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## Lucas339 (Aug 10, 2009)

Satellite Rob said:


> Hi skips,
> I've been keeping 5 of my 12 S.Hardwickei's bone dry paper towels for more
> than a month.Every frass i've checked under a microscope for more than a
> month has mite eggs on them.None of the frass samples had a single live mite
> ...


Rob,

I work at harbor branch/FAU here in fort pierce.  i would like to document your claims.  im not saying i don't belive you, but i would like to see this for myself.  i can also help to back YOU up with these findings.  i have microscopes, both dissecting and light, that have camera attachments.  i am also an invert taxonomist.

let me know if you really want to do this.  i can meet you half way or something that way you don't have to ship it.


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## skips (Aug 14, 2009)

meso said:


> Hello!
> If I understood right, on pics are only eggs of those mites ? Could You get some picture of mites as well ?
> Well, for the vertabrates are lots of endoparasitic mites, that's right.


and also for invertebrates.  _Acarapis woodi _ is a species of trachial mites that lives in honey bees and was blamed in part for colony colapse syndrome.  If there is an animal with a crevice capable of sustaining life, there IS a parasite for it.

Rob, if you're still intersted in sending those out to be looked at im waiting for some info to be sent to me on how to contact the ohio state ecarology department.  According to the acarologist ive been talking to, there are a few described species of endoparasitic mites...its just that not many have been looked at.  So what's up with your mites at this point?


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## Galapoheros (Aug 14, 2009)

just more evidence that nobody has and nobody will ever, "seen it all" ..interesting stuff.


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## Satellite Rob (Aug 21, 2009)

One of my S.Hardwickei's went to be checked for the eggs in it's frass.Thay 
found eggs in it's frass and are doing cultures to see what hatches out.If thay 
have the same results as I did.Thay will hatch into mites.When the tests are 
compleat he will make a new thread with the results.Thay checked the pede 
today external mites and none were found.But all frass thay checked had 
eggs on them.Thay have done alot of work with mites and never seen anything
like it before.Thay have taken alot of micro macro pictures to document  
there findings.I was told thay would start to release there there findings as 
soon as there first frass cultures hatch out.This way thay will have pictures 
of the eggs and what hatches from them.So it looks like i'm not crazy and to 
people who thought I was crazy.You may still be right.Because else but me 
is wasting there time looking at pede frass under a microscope.Watch for the 
new thread for the lab results and pictures. 

PS:Orin I didn't forget about you.It's been a working 15 hour days and have not 
had the time.But I will send you a Hardwickei next week.This way you can compare 
your results with the lab.Thay said thay would you the results if you want.Please 
let me know what days would be good to ship next week.


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## Galapoheros (Aug 21, 2009)

Sounds very interesting!  If there are mite eggs, my guess is that they are grain mite eggs that have been ingested by the pede and another way for them to relocate.  It wouldn't surprise me if grain mite eggs could survive the gut of a pede.  If it's some other kind of mite, that would freak me out!


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## Satellite Rob (Aug 21, 2009)

We should know in a week or two.This might prove that we don't know as 
much as we we like to think and theres something new around every corner. 
Since the Hardwickei is being kept in a sterile container and it's being checked 
for external mites every day.Whos to say were the eggs are coming from. 
When I got my S.Hardwickei I also received 3 dead Hardwickei's packed 
91% alcohol solution.I'm sending 1 to them to do a internal biopsy to see 
whats inside them and to see if thay can find out were the eggs are coming 
from.They will be receiving it on tuesday and then we will know alot more.I 
almost threw out the preserved Hardwickei's 10 different times or I was going
to send them to R Shelly.But now i'm glad I kept them.


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## burmish101 (Aug 21, 2009)

Well heres my oddball theory.

I've had lobster roaches frozen solid that came back to life, what if other inverts like mites could withstand a freezing than reanimate like the roaches did. Reading the above post of the guy feeding his snake mice and mites and eggs in the snakes fras from the mice, and you feed the pedes frozen pinkies is it possible that they can survive through eating and digestion from the pede and reanimate during the process then hatch out after defecation?

Its probably wacked out for a theory and what not, just throwing an idea out there.


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## Galapoheros (Aug 21, 2009)

I'm not sure what other people are thinking about this topic, could be diff questions related to it.  Personally, I'm thinking "what kind of mites might they be other than grain mites, if the round things are eggs?"  That would be my question, what kind of mites are they?  If they are grain mites, I will not be very surprised.  But, it will be something learned if it's discovered the grain mite eggs survive in the pede gut and hatch out in the frass.  What a great survival tactic for the ....grain mites


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## Lucas339 (Aug 21, 2009)

they are for sure eggs of some sort.  they are rather large for mite eggs in my opinion.   i have them incubating right now and we shall see (hopefully monday) as to what pops out.  i will say that these eggs are too large to be grain mites.  again IMO.....i could be suprised on monday.

there is no way for them to be eating the mite eggs and passing them.  every effort on robs and my part have taken to make sure there could be no adults in the tub.  the only thing could be happening is there are some kind of animal in the intestines of the pede passing these eggs on. 

i will look into some acid test of grain mite eggs and these eggs to see if they could make it through a digestive tract but i highly doubt this is the case.

i will be posting the pics and findings in a sperate thread once i get things all in a row.


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## Galapoheros (Aug 21, 2009)

Going by the frass pic, my first thought too was that they are too big for grain mite eggs, they look as big as grown grain mites, seems close anyway and taking into account the size of pede frass I've seen.  This is really weird.  There have been several of us here that have seen other small white balls in pede frass but finally assumed they weren't eggs.  I wonder if these are the same or different?  Pretty interesting Rob, I'm glad you were aggressive about finding out what it is and I like that you sent a pede to more than one person.  In a way, I'm hoping to find something new and diff here but, not good for the pedes maybe, so, also would be good if it turns out to be something else not so bad.  Looking forward to some results.


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## Satellite Rob (Aug 21, 2009)

The only good thing I can say.Is that it doesn't seem to be causing the S.Hardwickei 
any problems so far.There appetite has not been affected at all and thay eat 
anything I give them.Thay all seem like healthy normal pedes.Except for the  
frass eggs.I was wondering if this is a mite from india and anyone with Asian 
pedes mite wont to check there frass.Because I would bet that S.Hardwickei's 
are not the only pede that carries them.But you will need a microscope to 
check them and i'm surprised that more members haven't ckecked already. 
If thay have them?You will know as soon as you look at the frass.Because 
you will see eggs everywhere.Thay will look like a microscopic tarantula eggs. 
Maybe it was a good thing that members gave me so much trash.Because it 
only set the fire under my ass.To find out whats was going on.I've been doing 
this a long time and when I see something I that i've never seen before.I 
don't crumble to presure.Just because people give me heat about it.I've 
6 different reports about mite eggs in pede frass.Thanks to some members 
that didn't brush me off and said I was nuts.But nobody ever pursued there  
claims.Well thats not me.I will find out whats going on.I would like to thank 
my friend out there who know and supported me and claims.Just because 
you haven't seen it doesn't make it untrue.


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## burmish101 (Aug 22, 2009)

Panesthia species of roaches have a parasite in their gut that helps them digest food, maybe whatever thats in the pedes serves a simbiotic relationship kind of like that maybe? Whatever it is thats going on i'm sure interested in finding out!


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## Satellite Rob (Aug 23, 2009)

Hay burmish101, 
It's been a long weekend.I can't wait to see what Lucas339 finds on monday. 
I already hatch out 8 cultures and thay were all mites.How improbable as it 
may sound.So I have no reason to think that Lucas will have any different results than 
mine.But we should know soon.I was wondering for weeks if it could be a simbiotic 
relationship between the pedes and the mites.But that would take alot more 
time and pedes to prove.I'm crossing my fingers that we know more tomorrow.


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## Lucas339 (Aug 24, 2009)

well the eggs i had in the oven molded up.  i plan on just placing them in the lab next on some coco fiber.


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