# Tarantulas Banned



## Xian (Jan 13, 2010)

Okay, who can explain to me why so many people say things like, "We don't need any more bad PR for the tarantula hobby", "just another reason for congress to try and ban our hobby", "Our hobby is under enough scrutiny already", or other comments that I see people make similar to these all the time? I've lived in the midwest, New York, and now on the west coast, and have yet to encounter these issues in the real world. I understand the apartment complexes not allowing certain pets, but that also includes dogs at alot of places. This is the only place that I have seen such paranoia. Can anyone explain to me with *actual facts* why they think this hobby needs that kind of paranoia?


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## redrumpslump (Jan 13, 2010)

I totally agree with you xian. Second time today i like how you think. Personally i think its used alot of the time to scare "noobs" into buying the less risky tarantula instead of letting them do the research on the "t" they want. Maybe there are facts but honestly ive never heard anything until i joined this site. I was on tarantula.us. and i never heard anything like that.


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## jayefbe (Jan 13, 2010)

Seriously, just look at what is happening to the reptile hobby right now.  The same thing could and very likely happen to the invert hobby in the future.  It's better to be proactive and endeavor not to do anything stupid that would look poorly on the hobby.


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## Xian (Jan 14, 2010)

jayefbe said:


> Seriously, just look at what is happening to the reptile hobby right now.  The same thing could and very likely happen to the invert hobby in the future.  It's better to be proactive and endeavor not to do anything stupid that would look poorly on the hobby.


I would have no idea what's going on with reptiles??? I don't follow that hobby even a little. Except the Florida snake thing. But I can imagine that if a tarantula gets loose and eats an apex predator, we might have issues. I'm guessing that's what you are referring to when you say reptiles.
I really don't  know what issues the herp hobby is having?


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## Lunar (Jan 14, 2010)

In the reptile hobby they are banning a lot of species from state to state trading, which will hurt the hobby.


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## codykrr (Jan 14, 2010)

no, there a bill in the H.R. trying to ban pythons.  thats what happens when people let them go and kids get killed....bad P.R. as you put it.  

let me sum it up.  there are already cities here in the U.S. that prohibit sale of tarantulas as pets. there already some leway the government has.

basically we or I am trying to prevent this hobby of "bug keeping" from gaining a bad name. by kids getting bit, letting go into the wild. we dont really need all the attention you know.

better safe than sorry. 

i mean look at pit bulls.  not all are bad..but look at the crap they deal with.


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## ZergFront (Jan 14, 2010)

I can see it happening with some of the ignorance on spiders that's around. It wasn't even a week ago I saw some guy comment on DrSpider's Haplopelma video falsely identifying it as a Sydney funnel web. They're banning pythons and they don't even have any venom. It's just their strength that scares people.

 I don't know for what reason they banned venomous spiders, including tarantulas from Sioux City, IA but they are illegal and have been seized before.


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## redrumpslump (Jan 14, 2010)

They banning on pythons has come partially because of careless owners who dont realize how big they get and dont want them once they hit 7ft and release them into the wild.


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## mickey66 (Jan 14, 2010)

paranoia strikes deep....into your lives it will creep


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## jayefbe (Jan 14, 2010)

There are groups (HSUS) trying to ban all pythons in the US.  It's ridiculous.  They are using pseudoscientific BS to try to pass legislation that will cripple the reptile hobby.  

If enough people get caught sending T's in the mail, if enough people keep importing foreign species illegally, if species cause damage in florida, if some dumb person gets bitten by a Pokie and enters a coma (not out of the realm of possibility), the tarantula hobby will get the same type of negative attention.  Those of you thinking there's nothing to worry about are extremely naive.  We already have two strikes against due to the fact that a large percentage of people are already scared of spiders, and the plethora of misinformation about arachnids that is prevalent.


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## Xian (Jan 14, 2010)

ZergFront said:


> I don't know for what reason they banned venomous spiders, including tarantulas from Sioux City, IA but they are illegal and have been seized before.


Thank You for the example Zerg, I was unaware of this city ordinance, and I used to  live in Iowa?
Here's their answer to your question of why,

Female tarantulas can lay between 50 to 2,000 eggs at a give time, and Rarrat said their high reproductive rates partially account for why Iowa City ban the spiders.

"It's not that they usually especially dangerous, but they do tend to have a lot of babies and if they breed at a rapid rate it can prove to be a real problem," she said.


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## jayefbe (Jan 14, 2010)

redrumpslump said:


> They banning on pythons has come partially because of careless owners who dont realize how big they get and dont want them once they hit 7ft and release them into the wild.


Most if not all of the pythons in the everglades escaped during hurricane Andrew from private and zoo collections.  

Anyways, is that really that much different from an ignorant newbie getting a Pokie or a deathstalker?  The point is, in this hobby you have to worry about how your actions will affect the hobby as a whole, not just how it will affect yourself.


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## Xian (Jan 14, 2010)

jayefbe said:


> There are groups (HSUS) trying to ban all pythons in the US.  It's ridiculous.  They are using pseudoscientific BS to try to pass legislation that will cripple the reptile hobby.
> 
> If enough people get caught sending T's in the mail, if enough people keep importing foreign species illegally, if species cause damage in florida, if some dumb person gets bitten by a Pokie and enters a coma (not out of the realm of possibility), the tarantula hobby will get the same type of negative attention.  Those of you thinking there's nothing to worry about are extremely naive.  We already have two strikes against due to the fact that a large percentage of people are already scared of spiders, and the plethora of misinformation about arachnids that is prevalent.


See, your statement falls directly into my opening question. Paranoia. I don't discount your opinion, I'm just looking for actual examples like Zerg posted.


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## redrumpslump (Jan 14, 2010)

mickey66 said:


> paranoia strikes deep....into your lives it will creep


hahahah best post on this thread ive seen so far


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## ZergFront (Jan 14, 2010)

Xian said:


> Thank You for the example Zerg, I was unaware of this city ordinance, and I used to  live in Iowa?
> Here's their answer to your question of why,
> 
> Female tarantulas can lay between 50 to 2,000 eggs at a give time, and Rarrat said their high reproductive rates partially account for why Iowa City ban the spiders.
> ...


 Yeah. Makes sense. I wonder if lots of tarantulas in the pet trade today can live and thrive in IA's conditions. I've only lived in one state my entire life, so I don't know what IA's climate is like.

 I know FL has problems with Avicularia and B.vagans(non-native).


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## Xian (Jan 14, 2010)

ZergFront said:


> Yeah. Makes sense. I wonder if lots of tarantulas in the pet trade today can live and thrive in IA's conditions. I've only lived in one state my entire life, so I don't know what IA's climate is like.
> 
> I know FL has problems with Avicularia and B.vagans(non-native).


Not a chance that they'd survive. It gets down around 15 to -15 sometimes for about a month, give or take. The winters last longer but those temps represent the coldest month. The frost line in the ground is roughly 4 feet. Annual snowfall of at least 2-3 feet. I grew up there and there's no way they would survive.


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## Mack&Cass (Jan 14, 2010)

Well, here in Canada I can give you a list of cities in which tarantulas are banned:
Ottawa: (only 3 kinds of T's allowed)
"13 Arachnida and Chilopoda 
(a) all venomous spiders including, but not limited to tarantula, black widow and solifugid, scorpion, save and except the exception of the following species of tarantula: Chilean Rose (Grammostola rosea), Mexican Red-Knee (Brachypelma smithi), Pink-Toed (Avicularia avicularia), and 
(b) all venomous arthropods including, but not limited to centipede."

Cambridge, Ontario
London, Ontario
Bradford, Ontario
Barrie, Ontario and
Edmonton, Alberta

There are more, but I just thought I'd post a few examples.

Cassandra


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## Mack&Cass (Jan 14, 2010)

Xian said:


> Not a chance that they'd survive. It gets down around 15 to -15 sometimes for about a month, give or take. The winters last longer but those temps represent the coldest month. The frost line in the ground is roughly 4 feet. Annual snowfall of at least 2-3 feet. I grew up there and there's no way they would survive.


It sounds like the local government is using the threat of invasive species as an excuse to ban these animals. Probably due to ignorance, fear or both.
Mackenzie


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## ZergFront (Jan 14, 2010)

Mack&Cass said:


> It sounds like the local government is using the threat of invasive species as an excuse to ban these animals. Probably due to ignorance, fear or both.
> Mackenzie


 No kidding. If tarantulas can't survive in the state/country's environment, what's the big deal? Means all the tarantulas species in that state/country are caged.

 It's been a fun topic, I'm going to bed. Laters!


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## Avicularia Man (Jan 14, 2010)

Reading all this makes me happy I live in Ohio. Exotic laws are pretty laid back here.


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## whitewolf (Jan 14, 2010)

All the banning laws are mainly fear based. One idea steams from well these exotic people turn stuff lose and it spreads and kills native species and plants. They have a good point but the bottom line is where to draw the lines. Not all non-native things can survive.
Think: Evasive plants, Rodents, nutria rats, cats, pigs, dogs, locus, fire ants, ect.

Well yes it isn't the hobbyist though it's mainly in the pet industry. Kids and adults get it get tired of it and turn it lose. Same thing happens with dogs and cats everyday. Many peoples comments like that can go over board but some are just a hey knock it off don't put us in the spotlight too much. Think hot snake keepers on this one and relate it too say a pokie or S Cal or even an LQ. It may not kill you but use caution kind of thing. It took a few bites from hot snakes for a few cities to start banning.

The idea is mainly or at least should be to not draw negative attention which could be used later to base a fear off of. I have seen some comments go overboard but it is pure frustration. When you see or hear it a lot it gets old. Rather than yell though it is better to attempt to educate. Then if that person continues on that track it's on them. Yes it reflects all of us but at least someone tried. The lay man freaks out when they hear venom. If I said I had a venomous spider you might think something deadly. In reality I might have something not all that potentially deadly but it is still venomous. Their venom is used to digest prey but some see all venom and think deadly as where we know better. The venom effects are not totally known but we do know no one has died and it been reported or proven. That is where many fears lie is there is venom so they can use that as a scare tactic and hey it's a big spider so lets use a T Blondi to show that off too. Now I'm not trying to say it will happen, it won't happen, but it is possible. Anything is possible someone just has to get a bug up there butt. No pun intended.

S373 the python ban is targeting pythons and they are using fear to drive the point home. How by dragging this huge python around that is well huge and showing off how this big snake could attack and kill. Oh yeah and using global warming which is still in speculation. Well sorry I just don't believe it from what I have read and been told. Everyone I have talked to that has been on the python hunts say they didn't see anything or they heard someone killed one that was tiny. They were even targeting ball pythons who average 6 feet. A rat snake and a King snake is close to that size too. The girth is bigger but length is about the same. Now I don't keep any of them but I would like to get a ball in the future when I am ready. I didn't even read on them because I thought they all get big. Why because that is the fear T.V. and what not put into use is pythons get huge. Careful people that big bad python is going to unlock your door creep in and eat you up because they can live anywhere. 

HR669 ban on the exotic pet industry, which I lost track of, is based on that exact fear as well. That anything non native can not be, imported, exported, breed, sold, or even kept as a pet because it will escape and kill all the native wildlife and plants and blah blah blah.

I watched a show on animal planet once that showed 100's of Bracis taking over Florida and how they were ruining citrus crops. The ones I have talked to said yes they were there then they were gone and rarely found a couple years later. Makes ya wonder what happened. Guess they all slipped off into the everglades and stated eating crocs too. LOL.

Sorry so long. Basically yes I can see where some get offended by some peoples action looking negative. I have seen some pretty crazy stuff done that makes you go yeah that's gonna look great if you get nailed but at the same time yelling does no one any good it fuels a fight. Now I am talking extremes here like ohh say poking an LQ with your finger because you have one, but pinch grabbing or handling a G Rosea no. BTW I have not seen anyone yell about that I was just being dramatic, using an example. LOL.


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## redrumpslump (Jan 14, 2010)

Hey whitewolf the last i heard bout the hr669 ban was that it got kicked to the curb. I follow viperkeeper on youtube and he was talking bout. The reptile industry brings in over 3 billion dollars a year so trying to ban it would cost many people jobs. if you wanna hear more bout it check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q724X1M4_9I


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## whitewolf (Jan 14, 2010)

redrumpslump said:


> Hey whitewolf the last i heard bout the hr669 ban was that it got kicked to the curb. I follow viperkeeper on youtube and he was talking bout. The reptile industry brings in over 3 billion dollars a year so trying to ban it would cost many people jobs. if you wanna hear more bout it check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q724X1M4_9I


Thanks. Yeah my youtube was acting up and forgot to check in on his. He stays pretty up to date though so I like watching his. A few other sites kind of just dropped it due to 373 and 2811 and we know how reliable most info on the net came be. Woo hoo glad they dropped it, not that I really thought it would pass but still.


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## satanslilhelper (Jan 14, 2010)

House Resolution 669 I hope is enough proof for you OP. It did get shot down as a result of many hobbyists of different varieties calling congressmen and women. Although it got dismissed it's not really gone. The proponents for H.R. 669 are going back to the drawing board to try and figure out how to rewrite a new resolution in order to get something passed.  

That, I believe, is why the majority of hobbyists that stay well informed are so concerned about anyone causing any bad press whatsoever. One story on the evening news can make a whole town go retarded. Look at the city in Iowa that banned them for a reason that wouldn't have effected their community at all. 

The town where I buy crickets recently tried to ban all non-domestic animals. This included hamsters and fish. No joke!! It did get turned down, but this is what can happen to our cherished hobby in a short period of time.


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## Xian (Jan 14, 2010)

Thank You peoples for enlightening me with some actual examples. I was unaware of these bannings. I however will not submit to the paranoia myself, but now I understand why some people do!


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## Galapoheros (Jan 14, 2010)

I know what you mean, where does it turn into paranoia..  I wonder sometimes about where the line is between paranoia and considering a trend.  I remember a few years ago suggesting that people put rocks back the way they found them on the side of the road and to not look so conspicuous, leave it natural looking, that "they" are watching what you are doing there.  Some laughed at the thought, it sounded paranoid.  But now it's a $400 ticket if they see you pick up a scorpion, slug, spider, etc. with no hunting license in Texas, ..depending on which warden sees you.  Most won't care even though it's a law now, but I personally got a warning ticket last year for having a few scorpions without a hunting license, searched my car, took my SS number, location of where I got the scorps, where I was staying on the trip and some other stuff.  That would've been a laughable story, a paranoid idea if I made it up and told somebody before they came up with that law, but now it's real.  There are some people in gov trying to control too many things imo, some make sense, some don't.


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## Xian (Jan 14, 2010)

Galapoheros said:


> That would've been a laughable story, a paranoid idea if I made it up and told somebody before they came up with that law, but now it's real.  There are some people in gov trying to control too many things imo, some make sense, some don't.



That would have been a funny story, if it wasn't true!


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## satanslilhelper (Jan 14, 2010)

I don't see how you can even call it paranoia when we've provided you factual evidence of our national and local governments trying to limit or abolish our hobby. I believe that it's a rational fear that people have that they're cherished hobby could be taken away from them.


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## jayefbe (Jan 14, 2010)

satanslilhelper said:


> I don't see how you can even call it paranoia when we've provided you factual evidence of our national and local governments trying to limit or abolish our hobby. I believe that it's a rational fear that people have that they're cherished hobby could be taken away from them.


The invert hobby is fortunate in that it has not reached the popularity of the reptile hobby.  Believe me, if it ever does, it will be receiving the same negative press, and the same legal attacks that the reptile hobby is right now.  I agree fully that it's not paranoia.  Five, ten years ago, nobody was worried about losing their reptiles.  I know I wasn't, and now it's becoming a very real possibility.  It's naive to think that the same thing can't happen to your inverts.


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## Xian (Jan 14, 2010)

satanslilhelper said:


> I don't see how you can even call it paranoia when we've provided you factual evidence of our national and local governments trying to limit or abolish our hobby. I believe that it's a rational fear that people have that they're cherished hobby could be taken away from them.


Rational fears cause paranoia.
Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean somebody is not following you.


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## sean-820 (Jan 14, 2010)

Xian said:


> Okay, who can explain to me why so many people say things like, "We don't need any more bad PR for the tarantula hobby", "just another reason for congress to try and ban our hobby", "Our hobby is under enough scrutiny already", or other comments that I see people make similar to these all the time? I've lived in the midwest, New York, and now on the west coast, and have yet to encounter these issues in the real world. I understand the apartment complexes not allowing certain pets, but that also includes dogs at alot of places. This is the only place that I have seen such paranoia. Can anyone explain to me with *actual facts* why they think this hobby needs that kind of paranoia?


If a kid gets bit and makes the news, its not going to benifit this hobby one bit. Alot of people are already scared or disgusted by t's so bad press is just giving them another reason to hate t's. If the masses hate t's, a politician who knows nothing about them will ban then based solely on peoples reactions to bad press.

Do you think rotti/ pitbulls dogs attacking kids helped their reputation? Look where its gotten them.


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## drdoody (Jan 14, 2010)

I used to live in a town (Tyler, Texas) that supposedly banned the sale of snakes. And none of the local pet shops sold them, so it might have been true. Whatever.

People are fundamentally retarded. All of us are. Some are just more retarded than others. Some social factors effect retardability. Social factors such as being a local politician or being involved with the religious right. These people will forever see anything they find menacing as something to curtail and eradicate. It is the natural reaction of the retard. You can't talk or reason them out of it. They're just retarded. And retarded can't be cured.


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## bliss (Jan 14, 2010)

Xian said:


> See, your statement falls directly into my opening question. Paranoia. I don't discount your opinion, I'm just looking for actual examples like Zerg posted.


actual example - B vagans established population in Florida.  All it takes is a few examples of it being a problem, a gullible Politician, and a couple special interest groups.  Then you -might- have something to worry about.

It's a shame that politicians waste their time on such petty crap.  They should be making laws protecting certain Aphonopelma species out west from over-collection, if anything.


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## Xian (Jan 14, 2010)

sean-820 said:


> *If a kid gets bit and makes the news*, its not going to benifit this hobby one bit. Alot of people are already scared or disgusted by t's so bad press is just giving them another reason to hate t's. If the masses hate t's, a politician who knows nothing about them will ban then based solely on peoples reactions to bad press.


If that ever happens, then I do not fault the government agency that has to stop people from hurting their own kids.

Let make one thing perfectly clear here, *accidents don't just happen, they are caused.* If the people in this hobby ever allow something like that to happen, then I guess their paranoia is justified.


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## jayefbe (Jan 14, 2010)

Dude, it's not paranoia.  Stop saying it's paranoia.  

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/PARANOIA

It's just being aware of the current hostility from special interest groups and politicians against the keeping of exotic pets.


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## Xian (Jan 14, 2010)

jayefbe said:


> Dude, it's not paranoia.  Stop saying it's paranoia.
> 
> http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/PARANOIA
> 
> It's just being aware of the current hostility from special interest groups and politicians against the keeping of exotic pets.


I'd say number two of your link pretty much sums up what I'm trying to say.
Thanks jayefbe


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## Mack&Cass (Jan 14, 2010)

I wouldn't say it's irrational or excessive. It's people who care about their hobby and are aware of what is happening. Personally, I think being an owner of exotic pets, it's your responsibility to stay well-informed of what's going on instead of turning a blind eye to it and pretending everything is okay.

It's not paranoia, it's awareness.

Cass


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## satanslilhelper (Jan 14, 2010)

If anything is excessive or irrational here it's the use of the word PARANOIA!!!;P


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## Mister Internet (Jan 14, 2010)

Xian, your "opinion" is a mess of circular reasoning and "nuh-uh".   You can't ask someone "why is everyone so afraid of running with scissors?", and then when several people outline why it's a bad idea, where documented cases of running with scissors has been outlawed, or where people running with knives have causes the scissors to come under scrutiny, say, "well, that's fine, but I will still think what I want lalalalalalala".

Have some respect for people's input.  People that have been in the hobby a lot longer and seen a lot more than you... it deserves a bit more thought than "I don't care, you're all paranoid lalalalala".  Honestly.


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## Xian (Jan 15, 2010)

Mister Internet said:


> Xian, your "opinion" is a mess of circular reasoning and "nuh-uh".   You can't ask someone "why is everyone so afraid of running with scissors?", and then when several people outline why it's a bad idea, where documented cases of running with scissors has been outlawed, or where people running with knives have causes the scissors to come under scrutiny, say, "well, that's fine, but I will still think what I want lalalalalalala".
> 
> Have some respect for people's input.  People that have been in the hobby a lot longer and seen a lot more than you... it deserves a bit more thought than "I don't care, you're all paranoid lalalalala".  Honestly.


I was just looking for actual examples of what causes the "fear" and perceived persecution by so many. I've heard all the 'what if' stories before. I do care, otherwise I wouldn't have asked in the first place.


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## robc (Jan 15, 2010)

codykrr said:


> i mean look at pit bulls.  not all are bad..but look at the crap they deal with.


Totally agree, it is all media <edit> ...they make the dogs out to be some kinda monster when in reality they are not, 68% of so called "Pit attacks" are not even pitbulls, they are other dogs with a big head...that way over 150 lbs LOL. Pitbulls are 4th on the bottom on bite reports and have a temperment sxcore of 88.7%, wich is higher than a lab retriever. Most do not ebven know what a true pitbull looks like, they are not 120-150 lbs...they are in the range from 60-80 and 80 being very high, like my boy Titus (70Lbs)

*Here is what a true American Pitbull terrier looks like!*








*Sure looks mean*


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## Xian (Jan 15, 2010)

Mack&Cass said:


> I wouldn't say it's irrational or excessive. It's people who care about their hobby and are aware of what is happening. Personally, I think being an owner of exotic pets, it's your responsibility to stay well-informed of what's going on instead of turning a blind eye to it and pretending everything is okay.
> 
> It's not paranoia, it's awareness.
> 
> Cass


That's what I am trying to do Cass, raise my awareness, and be better informed. Sorry to all those that thought otherwise.


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## Arachnopets (Jan 15, 2010)

It is illegal to own/sell tarantulas within the 5 boroughs of NYC (Manhattan, Brooklyn, Queens, Bronx and Staten Island).

*http://www.nyc.gov/html/doh/downloads/pdf/zoo/zoo-animal-healthcode.pdf*


Under "Health Code § 161.01 Wild animals prohibited" scroll to number 13:

*"(a) No person shall sell or give to another person, possess, harbor or keep wild animals identified in subsection (b) of this section ..."*

*"(13) Arachnida and Chilopoda: All venomous spiders, including, but not limited to, tarantula, black widow and solifugid; scorpion; all venomous arthropods including, but not limited to, centipede."*

Debby


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## Xian (Jan 15, 2010)

Thanks for that Debby. This is actually turning out to be a bit more widespread than I had imagined. I wonder how many other city's have similar laws that we are unaware of?


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## Maurelius (Jan 15, 2010)

How can the self-inflicted be regulated?


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## Avicularia Man (Jan 15, 2010)

Wow, that makes me happy I don't live in New York.


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## VESPidA (Jan 16, 2010)

redrumpslump said:


> hahahah best post on this thread ive seen so far


haha, you just named my next spidey

edit:  paranoia, that is.  quoted the wrong person


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## Teal (Jan 17, 2010)

*As someone who has been involved with American pit bull terriers for years - I know about legislation and the government being against you.

Prevention is key.

You have to stand up from the start, and make sure things don't go downhill.
Unfortunately, with my dogs' breed, it's too late... and now we're fighting an insurmountable battle trying to clear their name.

The same thing could EASILY happen to the tarantula keeping hobby, if people don't watch their step. This isn't some reckless, fun game with no consequences... the government practically sits around, reading the papers, trying to figure out what to ban next. *


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## endoflove (Jan 17, 2010)

marriage is worse than any T' venom....    (im being sarcastic)


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## Ranty (Jan 18, 2010)

You would be surprised at the reaction a parent has when their child, or teenager is injured by a animal. Some parents would of course use common sense and treat the injury and hope their kid gets some knowledge from the whole affair. But, some parents would start a roller coaster of crap with the media and local government, just to be in the spot light, or they think they are a leader and choose to start a crusade to rid the planet of the thing that caused the injury for the betterment of humanity. 

One example is the Pit bulls, another is the Australian funnel web spiderand and another yet is of course the Python. All have seen a lot of press and high lights on the news. People fear, but never take the time to learn or understand the nature of so called beast.

Knowledge is power, and understanding is key in dealing with any animal. Even experts who have dealt with Tarantulas for over 10 to 20 years still will get bit due to carelessness. They dropped their guard and got tagged. 

Being worried about the future of this hobby is natural. None of us would like to have the Police invade our home and remove the animals we love and take care of due to the lack of knowledge and fear of several parents who got the world in an up roar due to their idiot kid showing off his new pet to his friends and got tagged.

So we who are in this to the end are encouraged to teach and share that knowledge of this hobby. We aren't building plastic models here.

Trust me... Do you really think a Politician gives a damn about a tarantula and the people who care for them. We are few, in a world of paranoid people who base their decisions from News on TV. A Politician would love the chance to be on TV to fight and make laws. To be in the spot light so he can be re-elected next term. 

Its not being paranoid, its being pro-active instead of being re-active. Don't just sit there and wait till something happens. Share the knowledge and try to educate people so when someone does get bitten no one will panic, the media won't have fuel for the fire, and the Politician would get more crap for being stupid if he went after it.

Ok, I'm done my lecture.....  lol 

Vote for me in 2012 people

:clap:  Ranty for President  :clap:


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## Sunset (Apr 29, 2010)

the only reason why the reptiles  hobby is like that because. a big python got lose and ate a baby. and then people in FL just let those snakes go and there having babies and nows its a big deal in FL The state hires people to go down in Southern FL to catch pythons and kill them. I have not heard anything about this hobby.


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## micheldied (Apr 29, 2010)

It's already happened here.
Pretty much no invertebrate or reptile is legal to keep here.
The government gives reasons like "they're dangerous" or "they'll destroy our natural ecology",which is pretty much already screwed up anyway.


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## Blitz (Apr 29, 2010)

offroad537 said:


> the only reason why the reptiles  hobby is like that because. a big python got lose and ate a baby. and then people in FL just let those snakes go and there having babies and nows its a big deal in FL The state hires people to go down in Southern FL to catch pythons and kill them. I have not heard anything about this hobby.


A python got loose but it didn't eat a baby. It killed one. 

People didn't just let  their snakes loose it happened mostly when the hurricanes hit. I am sure some did leave theirs loose but the biggest problem started from zoo's and stores when the hurricane came through and demolished things.

As far as the T hobby goes, if they start banning reptiles it's only a matter of time before they come after this one. People fear what they don't understand and they don't want to get to know spiders or snakes.


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## dtknow (Apr 29, 2010)

We should ban cats because they are very prolific...it could become a big problem...:wallbut they are cute and fuzzy)


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## fangsalot (Apr 29, 2010)

Arachnopets said:


> It is illegal to own/sell tarantulas within the 5 boroughs of NYC (Manhattan, Brooklyn, Queens, Bronx and Staten Island).
> 
> *http://www.nyc.gov/html/doh/downloads/pdf/zoo/zoo-animal-healthcode.pdf*
> 
> ...


thats why i moved from queens to south florida


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## super-pede (Apr 29, 2010)

I just want to say that the only reason people are trying to put a ban on T's and other inverts is because they are just plain afraid of them.

I was doing a educational presentation at a school one day(I only bring tarantulas with a bee sting level bite-harmless)and once I brought out my avic (which I assured was harmless) 5 kids ran screaming out of the class and two of the parent volunteers grabbed the 8-9 other children (who were really interested) ran out and started screaming about how dangerous the thing was.after the teacher informed me about how the pinktoe can hospitalize a man I left.the public is all misinformed.if we were to actually inform the goverenment of what tarantulas are capable of then they would probably not care.


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## Angron (Apr 29, 2010)

Exactly why is the government and all these special interest groups so intent on banning all of these amazing animals? I understand the ecosystem issue, but it seems that's far too limited to be a legit reason. Honestly, it just looks like they hate any kind of "exotic" animal and want people to be miserable.


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## Fran (Apr 29, 2010)

super-pede said:


> I just want to say that the only reason people are trying to put a ban on T's and other inverts is because they are just plain afraid of them.


That is absolutely ridiculous.
Lets keep this serious, please.
I think certain species should need a very close  eye to those who keep them,sell them or breed them.
Too many stupid kids have what they shouldntat home. 
Again, since theres no way you can make sure that if certain animals scapes the owner would be the only harm and responsable, then I dont agree with a free for all-everone keeps whatever.

After the accident you can cry me a river, it is  not gonna fix it.

PS: I DONT NECESSARILY AGREE with involving fees and money penalties into the hobby, 
BUT this cant be self regulated since there will be always someone greedy enough to sell to the wrong person a dangerous sp for enought money.


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## GartenSpinnen (Apr 29, 2010)

Xian said:


> Okay, who can explain to me why so many people say things like, "We don't need any more bad PR for the tarantula hobby", "just another reason for congress to try and ban our hobby", "Our hobby is under enough scrutiny already", or other comments that I see people make similar to these all the time? I've lived in the midwest, New York, and now on the west coast, and have yet to encounter these issues in the real world. I understand the apartment complexes not allowing certain pets, but that also includes dogs at alot of places. This is the only place that I have seen such paranoia. Can anyone explain to me with *actual facts* why they think this hobby needs that kind of paranoia?


Yea, there is plenty of local and county ordinances that have banned the sale and keeping of ALL 'venomous' arachnids, centipedes, and even millipedes. If you want an example of one of these ridiculous areas, just look up South Bend, Indiana and many other areas it is already enforced in! It IS an issue.


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## killy (Apr 29, 2010)

When the Biggie hits L.A. and hundreds of captive species of Ts get loose by the thousands, it won't be long before they breed by the umpty-ump millions, and Southern California becomes, by an Act of God and Mother Nature, THE TARANTULA CAPITAL OF THE WORLD, where even the priciest T of them all will be available for the easy pickin'!  Just let 'em try to stop our hobby THEN mwah- ha-ha-ha- ha ;P;P;P


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## J.huff23 (Apr 29, 2010)

jadespider1985 said:


> Yea, there is plenty of local and county ordinances that have banned the sale and keeping of ALL 'venomous' arachnids, centipedes, and even millipedes. If you want an example of one of these ridiculous areas, just look up South Bend, Indiana and many other areas it is already enforced in! It IS an issue.


This scares me. If Ts start getting banned in more and more places, the hobby will eventually die.


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## CalvinKelly (Apr 29, 2010)

I think it's really sad there is legislation popping up banning various species out of bad press. Dogs, bicycles, alcohol, cigarettes, and police officers are just a handful of things that kill more people than reptiles and arachnids combined, and you will never see any of them banned (although I would particularly like to see our good 'ol Blue Buddies banned, but that's another thread).

I know in San Diego we are still quite free to own anything we want (save for ferrets haha). At my local reptile store they even have an Anaconda (currently apx. 5 or 6') for sale. I asked them if it was legal and they said it absolutely was, but that there is the possibility they ban them in the future.


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## Mack&Cass (Apr 29, 2010)

CalvinKelly said:


> I think it's really sad there is legislation popping up banning various species out of bad press. *Dogs*, bicycles, alcohol, cigarettes, and police officers are just a handful of things that kill more people than reptiles and arachnids combined, and *you will never see any of them banned *(although I would particularly like to see our good 'ol Blue Buddies banned, but that's another thread).
> 
> I know in San Diego we are still quite free to own anything we want (save for ferrets haha). At my local reptile store they even have an Anaconda (currently apx. 5 or 6') for sale. I asked them if it was legal and they said it absolutely was, but that there is the possibility they ban them in the future.


Actually, pit bulls are banned in the province I live in.

Cass


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## CalvinKelly (Apr 29, 2010)

Good point. However I personally know several people who have been attacked by pits, so I can honestly sympathize with that legislation. But I don't know about you, I don't know anyone, or know anyone who knows anyone who has been killed by a reptile or arachnid. Bad press and fear is really what it boils down to on legislation re: these two Linnaen classes.


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## Mack&Cass (Apr 29, 2010)

CalvinKelly said:


> Good point. However I personally know several people who have been attacked by pits, so I can honestly sympathize with that legislation. But I don't know about you, I don't know anyone, or know anyone who knows anyone who has been killed by a reptile or arachnid. Bad press and fear is really what it boils down to on legislation re: these two Linnaen classes.


I agree that it is bad press and fear. That one show on Animal Planet that showed people getting killed by their reptiles didn't do much to help either. I don't know anyone who's been attacked by pitbulls, but even if I did, I still think outright banning them is ridiculous. 

Cass


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## ZergFront (Apr 29, 2010)

Xian said:


> That would have been a funny story, if it wasn't true!


 I was reading through this topic and did a Google on "stupid laws" and got the fallowing examples : Let the eye-rolling and laughter commence! 

Nevada :

 - It’s still “legal” to hang someone for shooting your dog on your property.

 - Elko : Everyone walking the streets is required to wear a mask.

 - Nyala : A man is forbidden from buying drinks for more than three people other than himself at any one period during the day.

 California :

 Animals are banned from mating publicly within 1,500 feet of a tavern, school, or place of worship. :wall:

 It is a misdemeanor to shoot at any kind of game from a moving vehicle, unless the target is a whale.

 Baldwin Park - Nobody is allowed to ride a bicycle in a swimming pool. (seriously?) :?

 Only examples from http://www.dumblaws.com/


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## neubii18 (Apr 29, 2010)

mickey66 said:


> paranoia strikes deep....into your lives it will creep


thats freaky!lol!


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## Xian (Apr 30, 2010)

ZergFront said:


> I was reading through this topic and did a Google on "stupid laws" and got the fallowing examples : Let the eye-rolling and laughter commence!


Here's one from Ohio.....

It's illegal to get a fish drunk.


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## CalvinKelly (Apr 30, 2010)

Mack&Cass said:


> I agree that it is bad press and fear. That one show on Animal Planet that showed people getting killed by their reptiles didn't do much to help either. I don't know anyone who's been attacked by pitbulls, but even if I did, I still think outright banning them is ridiculous.
> 
> Cass


I totally agree there. I think a ban on anything is absolutely ridiculous and I don't believe the government should have that much power.


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## Dom (Apr 30, 2010)

The problem is that most politicians don't care much about hobbies like this. For most beaurocrats only "freaks/wierdos" keep herps/inverts and they can be easily swayed by special interest groups and bad press. Once the wheels get turning they can be very hard to stop.
Years ago in Toronto (one of Canadas largest cities) there were a few incidents where people were either killed or seriously hurt by their reptiles. Plus others would freak out the neighbourhood by taking their herps for a stroll. This resulted in some bad press and at the end of the day all inverts, venomous reptiles, boids, monitors and crocodilians were outlawed. *Inverts were banned even though there were no incidents attributed to them.*
The by-law has been ammended and boids less than 3 metres and monitors less than 2 metres etc. can be kept. The only reason for the amendment was because of a lot of hard work by dedicated herpers. Unfortunately they had no interest in fighting for inverts.
Several Canadian cities have since placed bans on herps/inverts.
*Before* the ban some of us were less than impressed with the behavoirs of blatently irresponsible keepers and warned that legislation was a possible consequence. *Were were dismissed as "paranoid".*


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## super-pede (Apr 30, 2010)

Cats have the worst impact on the environment.Way worse than snakes or inverts.they can survive cold(30-40 degree)winters,they can breed without killing each other,people are sympathetic for them,and laws protect them.

For some reason I don't see cat's ever being banned or regulated.

PS:A cat's bite is much worse than a T bite.


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## micheldied (May 1, 2010)

super-pede said:


> Cats have the worst impact on the environment.Way worse than snakes or inverts.they can survive cold(30-40 degree)winters,they can breed without killing each other,people are sympathetic for them,and laws protect them.
> 
> For some reason I don't see cat's ever being banned or regulated.
> 
> PS:A cat's bite is much worse than a T bite.


And dogs come very close.


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## Venari (May 2, 2010)

Mack&Cass said:


> Well, here in Canada I can give you a list of cities in which tarantulas are banned:
> Ottawa: (only 3 kinds of T's allowed)
> "13 Arachnida and Chilopoda
> (a) all venomous spiders including, but not limited to tarantula, black widow and solifugid, scorpion, save and except the exception of the following species of tarantula: Chilean Rose (Grammostola rosea), Mexican Red-Knee (Brachypelma smithi), Pink-Toed (Avicularia avicularia), and
> ...


If I released my entire collection during the nice warm months of summer...I'm sure the canadian winters would kill them.


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## micheldied (May 2, 2010)

I wonder if Ts are allowed in BC?
Since I'll be moving back there in a few years...


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## Adalrich (May 2, 2010)

super-pede said:


> Cats have the worst impact on the environment.Way worse than snakes or inverts.they can survive cold(30-40 degree)winters,they can breed without killing each other,people are sympathetic for them,and laws protect them.
> 
> For some reason I don't see cat's ever being banned or regulated.
> 
> PS:A cat's bite is much worse than a T bite.


Exactly! The politicians have got it all wrong; it's the mammals they should be worried about. Dogs, cats, mice, rats, rabbits... all of these can survive in both warm & cool environments. And I'm willing to bet that a lot more people are killed by dogs & cats in the States every year than have ever been killed by reptile & invertebrate pets. 

I think all this hysteria is fueled by the popular notion that reptiles & invertebrates are disgusting, aggressive, venomous and merciless killers. I was recently at a pet expo here in Helsinki (there were only two stands with reptiles, and only one single tarantula at the entire event!) and I heard several conversations like this: -"Daddy, look, lizards!" -"Keep moving, those are disgusting!" or just simply "Eww, look... it looks like they've got snakes". 

Personally, I've always thought that rats, rabbits & mice are repulsive, smelly pests and wouldn't let one near my house. That doesn't mean I'd try banning them, though 

I heard that ALL reptiles and amphibians (not sure about tarantulas and scorpions?) are banned in Norway. I don't get it. Why? What are the Norwegians so afraid of? That leopard geckos and bearded dragons will escape and take over the fjords? Oh, the stupidity :wall:


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## dopamine (May 2, 2010)

drdoody said:


> I used to live in a town (Tyler, Texas) that supposedly banned the sale of snakes. And none of the local pet shops sold them, so it might have been true. Whatever.
> 
> People are fundamentally retarded. All of us are. Some are just more retarded than others. Some social factors effect retardability. Social factors such as being a local politician or being involved with the religious right. These people will forever see anything they find menacing as something to curtail and eradicate. It is the natural reaction of the retard. You can't talk or reason them out of it. They're just retarded. And retarded can't be cured.


Awesome


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## BCscorp (May 2, 2010)

micheldied said:


> I wonder if Ts are allowed in BC?
> Since I'll be moving back there in a few years...


Good to go here in BC. as far as tarantulas are concerned.


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## micheldied (May 2, 2010)

BCscorp said:


> Good to go here in BC. as far as tarantulas are concerned.


Good to hear!


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## Venari (May 2, 2010)

I doubt a provincial government would ban exotics summarily. Isn't it done at a municipal level?


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## macj1983 (May 3, 2010)

ZergFront said:


> I can see it happening with some of the ignorance on spiders that's around. It wasn't even a week ago I saw some guy comment on DrSpider's Haplopelma video falsely identifying it as a Sydney funnel web. They're banning pythons and they don't even have any venom. It's just their strength that scares people.
> 
> I don't know for what reason they banned venomous spiders, including tarantulas from Sioux City, IA but they are illegal and have been seized before.


what ever goes down they will still be around they may cost more to get. black market will be hot. but your right dont let them get there speed built up or we all will get the short stick. doesnt hurt to tell people whats going on out there I for one like to know. guess its really not that hard to not read the post if you dont like whats being said,


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