# 120 Gal Bubinga Plywood Vivarium build for DART FROGS, with waterfall (SLOW BUILD)



## xTimx

alright so lemme start off by saying;   This vivarium is for DART FROGS.   yes i know this is an arachnid board, but a few people on here wanted me to start a forum post for the viv build.   i am also doing this give you guys ideas on what you could do for a vivarium but i am also VERY inviting for other ideas from people like you! so lemme know what you think i could do for this build and the such! 

PLEASE READ AS I POST ALONG! 


so with out further ado.  here is the slow build! 

120 gal plywood vivarium. 

Plywood is 3/4" Bubinga plywood (GORGEOUS WOOD) 

the whole thing will consist of it being an open front vivarium. Complete with a water fall in the back right corner trickling into a pond, and a snaking river exiting it and flowing diagonally to the front left corner of the vivarium where it will enter another pond. In the back left corner i will have some driftwood sprouting outwards.   I am also planning on putting some fake mushrooms into the tank as well.  



Got it home and here's the awesome look of it! 



pic of the sides of it





so here's a prospective shot on how big the tank is going to be!   the dimensions of this tank are 4x2x2' or 48x24x24"



 





ALL glue'd up! 





About a week ago i found an ad online, for some driftwood for sale.  went down and took at look at it.... uhhhhhh yeah......HUGE pieces! 










So i picked up my share for.............. 14$ lmfao.    just gotta wash it down,  bake it, and all shall be gooood  

so here's some of the pieces that i picked up and i just set them into the tank for some ideas on what i could do! 













so just yesterday i went out and bought some Weather shield flex.   this stuff will be rolled on, in the inside of the tank, covering it all up!   will be siliconing the corners as well before hand.

I also bought my egg crate to create the false bottom,  and to mold and shape my two ponds and my river.  i bought pond liner to make the river and the two ponds as well, and will be siliconing them onto the egg crate.    the only water that will in the tank is in the ponds and the river.   
The waterfall will be made from slate rock.  I'm still deciding on a design for that.  
the front left pond will have a drain and the water will be cycled back into the waterfall etc.  
I will also have another drain in the subfloor where there will presumably be no water.  but it'll be there just in case as there could be run off from the substrate.  

i also bought some spray foam, and the pond pump.   still have to buy more stuff. but its a slow build cuz of limited funds!   

so stay tuned!!! 

if you have any Qs.  lemme know! 

Cheers!

Tim

Reactions: Like 4


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## JZC

Awesome. I wish I could something like that my darts. What type of frogs going in this?


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## xTimx

JZCtarantulafan said:


> Awesome. I wish I could something like that my darts. What type of frogs going in this?


i will be putting in 6-8 Dendrobates auratus Super Blues in


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## JZC

No kidding! I have those same frogs. 5 in a 30 gal, with some plants. They're living in a hovel compared to yours. For something that big, I would probably use leucs or phyllobates, but I love how the super blue morph varies from frog to frog.


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## xTimx

if i had the money....i would definitely be getting 10 Ranitomeya Variabilis southern form.   but sadly i dont have 1200$ >.<

---------- Post added 06-09-2013 at 09:32 PM ----------

Update: silicon'd the corners lmfao.

thank you that is all! (told you it would be a slow build -_-)


actually i'm unsure what to do for the drains, especially for the location of them. so i think i'm going to mock up my sub-floor and draw out a cutting area for my ponds on the egg crate. mock up the ponds and the river before i start drilling holes for the drains and before i start laying down the weather shield flex waterproofer.


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## xTimx

and here's the pic i took of it. just now. silicone is almost cured. I think the clear silicone gives it a good indicator of what the wood will look like when the outside of it is poly'd


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## josh_r

One good thing about a SLOW build is everything has plenty of time to cure.... Thus making it stronger in the end 

Are you going to use fibreglass and epoxy on those joints? If you hadn't planned on it, you may want to consider it... Especially the bottom. 

Can't wait to see the progress on this one. I love plywood builds! Here is one I did a few years ago.







Before I got the false background done...



I have a feeling yours will be much nicer than mine

Reactions: Like 2


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## xTimx

actually no, i wont be doing epoxy resin for the whole tank.   i found a product here in my city called weathershield flex.  a waterproofer, safe for ponds and fish.  sticks to anything.   i can get 2-3 coats on for 40$ for a gal  of it.    

i checked into the epoxy resin and it would be 110$ for a gal and even then i wouldnt be gaurantee'd a single coat with my cloth that i have.   

your vivs look great though! i dunno if i can compare to yours hahaha 

cheers my friend! 

Tim


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## JZC

Again, I feel like my frogs live in crap and squalor


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## SamuraiSid

xTimx said:


> actually no, i wont be doing epoxy resin for the whole tank.   i found a product here in my city called weathershield flex.  a waterproofer, safe for ponds and fish.  sticks to anything.   i can get 2-3 coats on for 40$ for a gal  of it.
> 
> i checked into the epoxy resin and it would be 110$ for a gal and even then i wouldnt be gaurantee'd a single coat with my cloth that i have.
> 
> your vivs look great though! i dunno if i can compare to yours hahaha
> 
> cheers my friend!
> 
> Tim


Excellent find, and excellent post. Ill definitely be along for the ride.


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## josh_r

xTimx said:


> actually no, i wont be doing epoxy resin for the whole tank.   i found a product here in my city called weathershield flex.  a waterproofer, safe for ponds and fish.  sticks to anything.   i can get 2-3 coats on for 40$ for a gal  of it.
> 
> i checked into the epoxy resin and it would be 110$ for a gal and even then i wouldnt be gaurantee'd a single coat with my cloth that i have.
> 
> your vivs look great though! i dunno if i can compare to yours hahaha
> 
> cheers my friend!
> 
> Tim


Yeah I can understand you on the price... Epoxy is not cheap! I woul recommend putting extra bracing on the bottom to support the weight of the substrate/ water, etc. I would hate to hear thatt the bottom cracked, or leaked, or worse... fell off! 

For my plywood builds, I used extra bracing and skipped the epoxy route for the same reason... too expensive. Instead, I used silicone to seal the wood. I put it in real thick on the bottom and sides and then spread it even with a large putty knife. It worked well and was very cheap. But your idea is better 

Ans I am sure your build will be just as good, if not better than mine! You have great resources for information! I just kinda winged mine...


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## xTimx

thank you all for the kind words  really appreciate it! 

and yeah like i said. its a slow build atm,  money is tight.   and its kinda on hold atm too cuz i'm trying to clean out my bedroom to put my Tarantula cabinet in there.  and i have a chair in there that i need to get rid of.  and also a TV stand too.  

this weekend, i'm HOPING to pick up some 2x4's for the stand and hoping also to pick up the slate rock too.    like i said i'll keep you all posted on whats going on.   

cheers everyone! 

Tim

Reactions: Like 1


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## xTimx

Update: 

so today was the only day that i could go out and buy the slate stone and i also bought 2x4s to make the frame out of.   

here's the slate stone that i bought.    ALL 225lbs of it. 





sorry for slow updates guys haha.


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## xTimx

just a bit of an update:

i am buying most of my materials atm.  and getting them all together so far.   i calculated out how much everything is gonna cost me.   and its going to be minimum of 2000$ lol.  so trying to round up funds for everything is challenging.  my next purchase will be a mistking spray system.  then i'll start building the frame for the stand.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Akai

Man I'm excited for you to complete this build.  Keep us posted!


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## xTimx

So i was just downstairs and i was throwing together some ideas on how i can mock up the corner hardscape details of the drift wood and this is the only best one of what i came up with.  

lemme know what you think 









(The drift wood on the right is not going to be in there, i was just throwing around ideas, like i said)

Reactions: Like 1


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## xTimx

OMG, working on the tank stand right now. lmfao fricking thing comes up to my belly button. its way too high, so i have to cut down the legs on it and continue building it haha pics to come a lil later on

Tim


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## xTimx

alrighty.   tank stand completed.    tempted to put some middle supports in but i dont think its really necessary.  please excuse the blood splatter on the wall.......I MEAN......lolol
its actually wood stain that got on the wall from my previous project.  

size of the stand is 48"Lx24"Dx29"H 





lemme know what you think

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## xTimx

Update: 

alright i added the last two braces to the stand and screwed em all up. 

today i also got the chance to boil my drift wood in a wash tank hahaha it was quite interesting.  

anyways.  here's pics  





next is to start work on the tank itself.  gonna bring it up from the basement and start on the waterfall.  

cheers everyone


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## xTimx

*Update: 

well i brought the tank up from the basement and set it on the stand.  yup....this is going to be a fun build hahahaha









Cheers guys  hehe*


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## josh_r

that is looking gooooooooooood!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## xTimx

UPDATE:

alright soooooo over the weekend i got the false bottom pretty well done.  screwed up my european vent, made it too long so i made it again tonight.  soooo here's the pics 











here's the european vent mocked up.. its not glued into place just yet. and i still have to put the screen into the screen border.   













thats all for now.   

This sat i'll be taking the diamond blade to the slate and mocking up the waterfall! 

cheers guys! 

P.S lemme know what i can do for tips and tricks! i'm all ears


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## shebeen

I like the way you used wire ties to fasten the risers to the egg crate.  Good idea.


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## dcsnowrider

Fantastic build! keep up the good work


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## xTimx

alright....here's the update of the waterfall. building it is alot harder than it looks.







here's where it jumps in size haha.  and in shape.






here's where i added the output of the water spout.  i may have to add in a T to split off the water to make it more even.  this is still a dry fit as i have to number every rock and spray foam it into place 



and the top cap of it 



top view of the waterfall




the kitchen sink drain is there for perspective view. 

---------- Post added 08-17-2013 at 10:24 PM ----------

i'm adding another pic,  i'm also adding a ring around the base of the pond so the substrate transfers into the rock nice and smoothly

Reactions: Like 1


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## xTimx

adding another pic of the whole tank with the waterfall and the driftwood set up together, along with the board that'll serve the base of the sherman vent system haha


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## xTimx

Update: 

since i am no longer doing the euro vent, i had to redo the false floor.   made it longer and added some more supports. and going to be adding even more support.     i am also at the point where i am ready to add the waterproofing.  which will probably be applied over the weekend.  

update pics here















also have to draw out and drill the holes for the drains and misting nozzles.


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## JadeWilliamson

Do you mind explaining what Sherman vents and European vents are?


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## xTimx

UPDATE:



FOUR 20W, 17" GROW AND GLOWS! WOOOOOOOT







This is just 1 G&G mounted into a light socket. 










on a side note. i drilled the holes for the drains and the output for the water



---------- Post added 09-05-2013 at 10:27 PM ----------




JadeWilliamson said:


> Do you mind explaining what Sherman vents and European vents are?


CERTAINLY  

so a european vent has a "horizontal" style vent system.  its very good for keeping the front pane glass from fogging up. but it does have some disadvantages though.  like the space inside the vent can get dusty and dirty and i heard of people (lack of being motivated to clean it mind you),  having spider webs inside.   another thing is you have a chance of water dripping down into the vent as well too.   and also the actual vent on the bottom takes up valuable floor space.   this was important for me, cuz having more floor space was crucial for me and the frogs themselves.  
here's a pic of the european style vent system.  






here you can see there is 2 glass panes on the bottom with a vent attached to the top of the panes.    the front glass pane has been carved to allow air entry and the back pane is left solid to direct the flow of air upwards.   at the top of the tank in the back.  there is a vent to allow better air flow for the tank.  this reduces mold growth and prevents the front glass from fogging up.  


now the sherman vent system is a vertical vent system and its pretty much exactly like an exo terra tank where the vent is just below the sliding glass doors. but there's also a vent in the top of the back side tank.  
the advantage to this vent system is that it only uses 1 pane of glass for support and also still keeps the front glass from fogging but not as good as the European style vent system.  it also free's up valuable space for floor space.     







any other Q's?

Reactions: Like 1


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## xTimx

Update:

Start to apply my waterproofing.  if anything its pretty much like drylok only its more grey.   its consistency is like paint but REALLY REALLY chaulky.  when it dries its great cuz its literally like rubber.  peeled it away from my hands with ease.  

anyways....here we go.....no turning back now.  









First coat done.   some places have high and low spots, i dont have any experience with this stuff so it was tricky to work with.   you use alot of it.  but yet you dont.   to cover the tank i only used like an 1/16th of the gallon. 






the corners were applied by a paint brush and it seems to stick to it nicely.   

2nd coat will be done in 2-3hrs time now.   will update as i go along. 

cheers

Tim


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## The Snark

Your workmanship and tools are excellent. Will you please bend a few nails over and pound them flat and make a few 88 degree cut offs so clutzes like me won't feel too envious?

Reactions: Like 1


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## xTimx

This Comment made my day! thank you very much!


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## JZC

xTimx said:


> This Comment made my day! thank you very much!


Stop it! I'm siding with snark. BTW, I'm making my own PDF viv now. Just siliconed background today.


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## xTimx

Sweeeeet! You'll have to post pics when its done.  



Btw I just did my 2nd coat.  Made a mistake on the first coat. Can said to do 2 coats with the 2nd coat right angled to the previous and then wait between 2-3hrs before applying another coat.  I will do 3 passes tonight then let it rest til maybe monday evening. 

Because there will be standing water below the false bottom. Im going to be doing alot more coats on the bottom. 

cheers!    

xTimx


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## JZC

. OK, in a few days I will totally hijack your thread! Also will go on dendroboard. Too bad it won't get a chance to grow before frogs go in. Once silicone cures it will be planted and frogged


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## xTimx

What bout iso's/springtails?

cheers!    

xTimx

---------- Post added 09-07-2013 at 10:00 PM ----------

2nd coat up! looking much better now  







I know i messed up on the first coat.   cuz i just read the can before applying my 2nd coat.  and it said to make two passes and the second pass being at a 90 degree turn from the first.   so this is why it looks much better now!  will be applying a 3rd coat tonight in about an hr and a half.   
i'm thinking 5-6 coats all around.   Then the rest will be applied on the bottom.   going to be using up the whole can on this tank.


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## The Snark

Sorry to be fussy but could you list the tools, saws and etc you are using? How you are getting those dead on plywood cuts and so forth.


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## JZC

I have 3 different species of springs and 2 of isos. SAY NO TO MOLD!


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## xTimx

The Snark said:


> Sorry to be fussy but could you list the tools, saws and etc you are using? How you are getting those dead on plywood cuts and so forth.


basic tools really.   i have a table saw here. but the 4x8' board i had gotten cut at the place where i bought it in the first place.   other than that, just basic cut off saws, router, sander.   i have a jointer here too but i didnt use it on this build.   small tools such as wire cutters were used to shape the egg crate,  pliers, hammer.   what ever u need to get the job done was used.   

this is nothing so far.  the best is yet to come.   i still have to build a canopy for the tank and then i'm going to skirt the tank stand as well too.   the canopy and skirting will be made from 1/4" bubinga plywood.  then i'll use corner molding to decorate the whole thing.  

for a finish. i'm still unsure yet.   bubinga ply, is only one dimensional.   so there is only so much i can do.   probably a shellac for sure. maybe a tint under it, and a danish oil to protect it.   i have a spare piece of bubinga i'm going to do tests on for finishes. 

cheers! 

Tim


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## JZC

I used shellac to water proof something for my tortoise. It was a wooden cage, and it molded pretty quick.


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## xTimx

JZCtarantulafan said:


> I used shellac to water proof something for my tortoise. It was a wooden cage, and it molded pretty quick.


the shellac would be applied on the outside of everything not the inside.  so it wouldnt mold.   

remember the tank will be waterproof (as i'm doing right now)

also remember, shellac is NOT to be made as a waterproofer.


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## JZC

Seal the wood I meant. It didn't work but it loomed nice. Idk.


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## josh_r

The Snark said:


> Sorry to be fussy but could you list the tools, saws and etc you are using? How you are getting those dead on plywood cuts and so forth.


Snark, if you want to get dead on, clean cuts from plywood.... Having a high tooth count on your circular blade really helps. A 90 tooth is reeeeal nice. Also, having a zero clearance insert on your saw will really help a clean cut and prevent chipping on the bottom side of your cut. I'll explain the zero clearance better.... The slot in your table saw that the blade raises through has a gap between the blade and the table. This gap allows the end grain of the plywood to chip as the saw pulls the grain off and chips the wood instead of cutting it. The zero clearance insert is something that you can replace your current insert with (assuming your table saw has replaceable inserts) The insert has no gap between the blade and the insert. This ensures that as the saw blade cuts through the wood, the bottom side of the plywood is firmly supported all the way to the end grain and the zero clearance does not allow for splintering or chipping. A zero clearance insert is very easy to make. You can use high grade ply or melamine. Cut out a perfect fitting insert for your saw and do not cut the slit for the saw blade. Once the insert is cut to size, lower your saw blade below your table and install the insert. Once it is firmly in place (you may have to clamp it) you then turn the saw on and slowly raise the blade. The blade will cut through your insert perfectly and you get zero clearance. If you do not have the option of replaceable inserts for your saw, you can make a saw sled with zero clearance. There are several good videos on youtude for construction a zero clearance saw sled. This is VERY helpful in cutting plywood and melamine covered products. 

Great job on your build Tim. It's looking really good. I look forward to seeing that bubinga with a finish on it. It's a very nice wood.

Reactions: Like 1


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## The Snark

So the saw goes from a fly cutting effect to a guillotine. Sweet. My mentor took saw blades, removed the teeth and honed the edge to razor sharp - vertical on one side. He would then slice the exterior veneer before making the actual cut with a regular blade.


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## josh_r

The Snark said:


> So the saw goes from a fly cutting effect to a guillotine. Sweet. My mentor took saw blades, removed the teeth and honed the edge to razor sharp - vertical on one side. He would then slice the exterior veneer before making the actual cut with a regular blade.


That would work too, but it seems like a lot of work just to cut some ply hahaha! I bet there are a lot of uses for a razor shard disc like that! thats a cool idea though!


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## The Snark

josh_r said:


> That would work too, but it seems like a lot of work just to cut some ply hahaha! I bet there are a lot of uses for a razor shard disc like that! thats a cool idea though!


My mentor (and boss) was a master carpenter. His attention to detail and his skill was unreal. While I'm the first to admit I'm carpentry challenged I've always loved watching real top pros at work and seeing their finished products. As example for ultimate fussy finicky, that guys house. All the doors in the place would close -and latch- by themselves if opened less than 90 degrees. At 90 degrees they would stay open. He spent 6 weeks hanging 9 doors on their custom made bronze hinges (permanently lubricated sintered load bearing surfaces) and specialized latches (which were made by a gunsmith friend of his).
When working with him it was an endurance trial. All his power cords had to be rolled up exactly a certain way. Nobody was allowed to touch his hammer or hand saw. One day we were putting clear heart redwood finishing planks on a garage door. I'd carefully drive the nails down to 1/4 inch then ever so carefully drive them home with a nail set. My boss would drive them with two hits of the hammer. I did 1 1/2 planks while he did 16 1/2. His planks, 'elephant tracks' free of course, had the nails in perfectly straight rows. His carpenters pencil was a sharp utility knife. His fine measurements were in thousandths: 'Let's add about 30 thousandths to that cut for sanding'.

My favorite anecdote of him. We went to bid on a garage door replacement. The door was a monster, 18 1/2 feet by 8 1/2 feet. I saw the bid he mailed and thought he had gone around the bend. 1 aluminum door with hardware and electric opener, $125. We will remove and haul off the old door. (About  1/2 our shops cost price). What I didn't notice but he did was under the 5 or so coats of enamel paint the old door was made out of 7/8th inch clear Honduras Mahogany. Over the following 5 years all the wood work in my boss's house was replaced with that beautiful red brown lumber, oh so lovingly installed by a true master of his trade.

Reactions: Like 1


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## josh_r

The Snark said:


> My mentor (and boss) was a master carpenter. His attention to detail and his skill was unreal. While I'm the first to admit I'm carpentry challenged I've always loved watching real top pros at work and seeing their finished products. As example for ultimate fussy finicky, that guys house. All the doors in the place would close -and latch- by themselves if opened less than 90 degrees. At 90 degrees they would stay open. He spent 6 weeks hanging 9 doors on their custom made bronze hinges (permanently lubricated sintered load bearing surfaces) and specialized latches (which were made by a gunsmith friend of his).
> When working with him it was an endurance trial. All his power cords had to be rolled up exactly a certain way. Nobody was allowed to touch his hammer or hand saw. One day we were putting clear heart redwood finishing planks on a garage door. I'd carefully drive the nails down to 1/4 inch then ever so carefully drive them home with a nail set. My boss would drive them with two hits of the hammer. I did 1 1/2 planks while he did 16 1/2. His planks, 'elephant tracks' free of course, had the nails in perfectly straight rows. His carpenters pencil was a sharp utility knife. His fine measurements were in thousandths: 'Let's add about 30 thousandths to that cut for sanding'.
> 
> My favorite anecdote of him. We went to bid on a garage door replacement. The door was a monster, 18 1/2 feet by 8 1/2 feet. I saw the bid he mailed and thought he had gone around the bend. 1 aluminum door with hardware and electric opener, $125. We will remove and haul off the old door. (About  1/2 our shops cost price). What I didn't notice but he did was under the 5 or so coats of enamel paint the old door was made out of 7/8th inch clear Honduras Mahogany. Over the following 5 years all the wood work in my boss's house was replaced with that beautiful red brown lumber, oh so lovingly installed by a true master of his trade.


Sounds like the type of person you want to mentor you. this is the type of stuff that separates the masters from ametuers... shoot.. how do you speel that??  that is pretty awesome. where was this?


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## The Snark

That was in Pasadena, California. Working with him and his partner was a major learning experience in a number of ways. He was a neatness and order fanatic while his partner was a 'just throw it in the truck' slightly organized chaos type. I would be traded off between them. His partner was also a top pro in his own way. He started as a SeaBee in the navy. He was assigned to an island in the south Philippines repairing PT boats. They got word the Japanese fleet had cut them off from their supply route in Australia. So him and his crew cobbed together a boat from spare PT boat parts, loaded it almost to the shear line with fuel and drove the hunk of junk about 800 miles down to Darwin, dodging Japanese patrols and bailing water the entire way.


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## josh_r

The Snark said:


> That was in Pasadena, California. Working with him and his partner was a major learning experience in a number of ways. He was a neatness and order fanatic while his partner was a 'just throw it in the truck' slightly organized chaos type. I would be traded off between them. His partner was also a top pro in his own way. He started as a SeaBee in the navy. He was assigned to an island in the south Philippines repairing PT boats. They got word the Japanese fleet had cut them off from their supply route in Australia. So him and his crew cobbed together a boat from spare PT boat parts, loaded it almost to the shear line with fuel and drove the hunk of junk about 800 miles down to Darwin, dodging Japanese patrols and bailing water the entire way.


HAHAHA! Wow!!! What a story!!! That is pretty intense. I couldn't imagine that journey! You would hate the carpentry skills here in Lima Peru. They have this "if it fits, all good... if it doesn't fit... it's still all good" kinda mentality... I have seen some incredibly sketchy things done here... And down right dangerous technique.. On the plus side.. in Oxapampa and Pozuzo Peru, I have seen some INCREDIBLE wood working and carpentry skills. But that is due to the heavy german influence that originally colonized the area. 

Got anymore stories like that?


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## The Snark

In Thailand the carpentry would be about the same. As they say in the trade, wood butchers. In Thai the axioms are mai pen rai, nothing, never mind, and mai som chai, I don't care. And yes, when you have German influence, the disciplined perfect fit mentality, things are decidedly different. A comedy here came down when Thailand imported and/or copied German plumbing fittings. Ultra precision fit that used O rings. You could buy the fittings anywhere but the O rings apparently seemed like unnecessary luxury goodies and weren't available with the Thai's trying to get by using great gobs of plumbers teflon tape on the non tapered threads.

In keeping with the original vein of this thread would be a friend and I building our first house. The rot set in big time after we poured the concrete then discovered it had set over the week end in 2 drain pipes. Our first chore every morning on the job site was to pour muriatic acid down those drains in the forlorn hope they would eventually clear. The next fiasco was trying to build a built in kitchen. First we wracked our brains for 2 solid weeks trying to figure out the perfect kitchen design. Finally my buddy got smart and brought his wife down to inspect the room. She strolled in, sized the place up in about 5 seconds, then told us exactly where everything should go. Then when putting in the cupboards and counters, there was a major no fit along one wall. We wracked our brains again for an hour before we figured out what we did. When framing that wall we put a chalk line on the floor. A Friday evening and we were dog tired. My buddy had placed his end of the frame on one side of the line while I placed mine on the other side. Tada! A 100-80 degree wall depending which room you viewed it from. Then we jackhammered up the concrete slab 3 times, once to find where we had connected the cold and hot water pipes, once to find the washing machine drain pipe that had gone missing and we hadn't noticed, and once for one of those concrete filled drains.

Carpentry wise our efforts were downright frightening at times. We bought a huge load of particle board on sale and attempted to make closets out of the stuff. Mixed in with the wood crud were rocks up to 1/4 inch. I think we murdered about 10 carbide blades and the finished results of the closets were frightening by any sane persons standards. Then we failed the gas pressure test about 10 times until the inspector told us a trick. (The test is for the pipes to hold 10 lbs pressure for 24 hours. But the valves were only designed for 2 PSI. So just cap all the pipe ends until after the inspection). Then we blew up a kitchen wall by have both legs of the 120 volt meet at a light switch connector tab. "Why is there a hole in that wall?" His wife asked. And in plumbing in the heating air conditioning unit I accidentally slid down behind the monster and was trapped upside down. It took my buddy almost a half hour to unbolt the unit and get me out, mostly because he kept cracking up laughing at seeing my legs sticking up.

And for some history and deja vu, my buddy on that house was also in the Pacific Theater during world war 2. He was in the signal corp and became an unknown celebrity. He was a photographer and got assigned to general Douglas MacArthur personal retinue. You know, the 'I SHALL RETURN' dude talking about going back and wresting the Philippines from the Japanese. Well, the big M, known to the those close to the arsehole as the big BM finally did return. Take a look: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped....jpg/300px-Douglas_MacArthur_lands_Leyte1.jpg
My buddy took that shot. The story goes the first time the landing craft brought BM ashore the pilot just drove the 'Duck' up on the beach. (They are fully amphibious. Mac was furious and slapped the sailor around. He then had him back the duck out into the water so he could be photographed wading ashore. Then he went back to the ship, changed clothes and repeat about 6 times until he was sure they had got the best possible pictures. The BM was a super egomaniac. 
Then the crowning glory was the mayor of the town where Mac had his residence before fleeing laid out the red carpet for Mac. Big fan fare, bands the whole pile of goo. Mac had his driver driver straight up to the mayor, he jumped out of the jeep, grabbed the mayor by his lapels then hissed in his face, "Where's my furniture you son of a bitch? I want every stick of it back!" A little while later Mac sent soldiers out to confiscate all the cameras of everyone who might have photographed the confrontation. My buddy got his back, without the film in it.

Your other Mac story. Self publicist to the max, it became common knowledge Mac was going to invade one island. Worried that the Japanese had gotten wind of the impending invasion, an officer on his own incentive took a special detail ashore the night before, attacked a Japanese prison camp where they were about to execute all the prisoners and freed them. That officer was Rod Serling of the TV show Twilight Zone fame. One of the prisoners in that camp was a woman who later became my mothers best friend. She related how they had all been taken out to the edge of the jungle and lined up in front of machine guns then all hell cut loose as Serling and his detail attacked from 3 sides.


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## xTimx

quit hijacking my thread damn it! lmfao

---------- Post added 09-17-2013 at 02:50 PM ----------

Not completely satisfied with the waterfall idea. its gonna be a very tricky install.  plus i really dont wanna have to deal with the headaches of setting it up and fiddling around with it and if something doesnt go right, i wont wanna have to tear it all down and such. 
so i had a few more pieces of driftwood leftover and i hardscaped those into the corner.    i like the look of this  lemme know what you think ok?
ALSO,  the light used is one of the grow and glows that i had bought, and is up in the light socket above me.


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## The Snark

It's really hard for me to visualize the final product. Just seeing driftwood instantly equates only to sand fleas. One story I am fond of was they were building up an environment at San Diego zoo and doing the head scratching thing. Then one person noticed some kind of monkey moving broken branches around. They let the monkeys have the run of the new enclosure for a week and they quite artfully rearranged the wood and rocks which the zoo kept.


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## josh_r

Wow Snark! You are full of great stories! And Tim..... HAHAHAHA!!!... Sorry man... I kinda influenced it... 

I can definitely visualize a great setup in your pictures. I think this will be a very nice setup once finished. Whats going on with the waterfall? I may have some ideas for you.


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## xTimx

Well the waterfall is sketchy. There are alot of "what if's" to the structure.  Plus it'll be a bugger to move the tank too. If I go the hardscape set up im saving alot of steps when making the tank. 
I really like this set up now. The way the wood kinda arches. I have also provided branches so if the frogs are feeling bold they can crawl up onto the branches as well too.  
The only thing I have to change is the false floor and thats super easy to do.  



cheers!    

xTimx


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## josh_r

What species are you putting in there Tim?


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## xTimx

either Dendrobates Auratus: Super Blue or El Cope


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## xTimx

UPDATE: 

Got the bottom of the tank filled glue'd with pond liner.  then i made another false bottom and wrapped it in screen.  glued that down as well too. 
set my driftwood pieces in and was working around some ideas for the right side.  and the first 3 pics is the set up i will go with.  
the left side set of drift wood is glued into place.   just going to leave out the right side for now cuz i'll just set it in when its time to put them in.  if that makes sense.  lol i cant really glue the right side driftwood onto anything.  you'll see what i mean when i start to lay down the spray foam. 

here we go 








These 3 next pics are just another idea i had for the right side driftwood. but i like the first set up better. 







if i made any mistakes so far..lemme know.  i need to know.   

other than that.  tonight my buddy will be coming over to help with the spray foaming.   more pics possibly tomorrow.    positive comments are most welcome!


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## xTimx

UPDATE

alright.... so my buddy came by and helped me spray foam tonight.   got the background done tonight.  wish i would of planned it a lil bit better but its all good.  







i'll wait till the back cures. then i'll move onto the side where the driftwood is.


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## josh_r

Lookin good so far Tim. Only advice I would have given you was to silicone egg crate to the back of the vivarium as well. This allows the expandable foam to grip much stronger to the back and prevent it from shrinking and detatching due to the high moisture content of the viv. Lets hope you don't have that problem with your background.


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## xTimx

Actually the weather shield flex waterproofing material is tacky enough so I think it should be ok.  

cheers!    

xTimx


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## xTimx

Left side foamed. Sprayed with water. Waiting for a cure! haha, gonna continue with the right side tonight after work


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## xTimx

the rest of the drift wood is glue in,  and the right side has been spray foamed.   depending on how it all goes down with in the next 3 days, i'll probably lay the weathershield flex onto the spray foam for the TB3/peat moss layer to go down onto it. 

here's update pics.


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## xTimx

ok i am going to throw up 2 more pics before i start laying down the backdrop with some TB3 and substrate. i'm gonna try and put some weathershield flex down to cover the whole background first.


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## xTimx

quick update:

applied the shield flex to the background. this stuff is awesome for glue to grab onto, especially gorilla glue but thats not what i'll be using haha.  anyways.  its hard to get into the crevices with it.  but i will be applying another coat to make sure i covered everything.  
yes i got some on the wood but i have a craftsman hobby knife set i can just use to scrap off the flex with.  

heres pics


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## josh_r

Tim, it is looking good! The sealer may be tacky enough, but you have to remember... you are using expandable foam in an environment it was not made to be used in. When this stuff gets moisture and constant humidity on it, it tends to drastically shrink and can cause it to detatch from what it is anchoring to. I have had it detatch from wood in the past. I hope you don't have this happen to your build. Good luck Tim. Will be nice to see this finished.


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## Bill Myers

Lookin' good! 

You've given me the bug to build one of my own for my gray tree frogs.  I liked the idea you had of adding a waterfall.  Sure wished you would have kept it in there, but I know how these big projects go; highly fluid.  

Now...  If only I can convince my wife that we need a smaller sofa to make a little more room for the frog terrarium I'm gonna' build!  She's gonna' just love that... LOL!

Cheers


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## xTimx

doing an order for plants atm.  order should go through in 2 weeks.
here's the list i'm buying. 


Broms:

Neoregelia ampulacea x purpurea 
Neoregelia 'Blueberry Muffin'
Neoregelia 'Little Faith' 
Neoregelia pauciflora, Green form 
Neoregelia pauciflora, hybrid 
Neoregelia punctatissima 
Neoregelia punctatissima 'Joao Marcio' x 'Night Spot' 
Neoregelia punctatissima rubra x 'Hannibal Lector' 

Tropical Plants:
Ficus pumila (syn: Ficus repens) 
2x Pothos 'Marble Queen' 
Ficus pumila 'Rikki'  

Jewel Orchids:
Anoectochilus formasanus

Others: 
Begonia soli-mutata
Begonia thelmae
Begonia burkillii
Peperomia prostrata
Peperomia caespitosa
Selaginella "Central Peru"
Pearcea hypocyrtiflora
Hydrocotyle "Northern Peru"


cheers!    

xTimx


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## xTimx

i'm adding another plant to the list.  only this one is coming from the states.   its a Cryptanthus "Volcano".
gorgeous brom! cant wait to get it!


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## The Snark

josh_r said:


> Tim, it is looking good! The sealer may be tacky enough, but you have to remember... you are using expandable foam in an environment it was not made to be used in. When this stuff gets moisture and constant humidity on it, it tends to drastically shrink and can cause it to detatch from what it is anchoring to. I have had it detatch from wood in the past. I hope you don't have this happen to your build. Good luck Tim. Will be nice to see this finished.


Depends on the foam. Isocyanates tend to be extremely stable and are thus commonly used to insulate refrigerators and refrigeration lines.

---------- Post added 10-03-2013 at 01:56 PM ----------




xTimx said:


> doing an order for plants atm.  order should go through in 2 weeks.
> here's the list i'm buying.
> 
> 
> Broms:
> 
> Neoregelia ampulacea x purpurea
> Neoregelia 'Blueberry Muffin'
> Neoregelia 'Little Faith'
> Neoregelia pauciflora, Green form
> Neoregelia pauciflora, hybrid
> Neoregelia punctatissima
> Neoregelia punctatissima 'Joao Marcio' x 'Night Spot'
> Neoregelia punctatissima rubra x 'Hannibal Lector'
> 
> Tropical Plants:
> Ficus pumila (syn: Ficus repens)
> 2x Pothos 'Marble Queen'
> Ficus pumila 'Rikki'
> 
> Jewel Orchids:
> Anoectochilus formasanus
> 
> Others:
> Begonia soli-mutata
> Begonia thelmae
> Begonia burkillii
> Peperomia prostrata
> Peperomia caespitosa
> Selaginella "Central Peru"
> Pearcea hypocyrtiflora
> Hydrocotyle "Northern Peru"
> 
> 
> cheers!
> 
> xTimx


"There are frogs in there too... somewhere.


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## xTimx

Update:

so i'm currently working on some homemade vines with some rope here.  
just trying to get a rough look to them first.  i'm using about 20' of black rope and probably around 30' of white.   the white is coiled around the black to give it a more naturalistic look to it. 





also with the white rope being wrapped around the black.  that gives me a good chance to mount some broms onto the vines.   alone with some moss as well too!

I also decided that i am not going to do the slate on the background. i think this will be plenty enough.  i dont wanna over crowd it with things.  plus with the plants growing and such. it'll just get really over crowded haha.  i'll probably go ahead from here tonight and start soaking the rope in silicone and then pressing in the substrate. 

CHEERS!

Tim


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## xTimx

DING VINES ARE DONE, DING VINES ARE DONE (sorry just had to) haha


This is my buddy Brad pressing in the substrate into the vines 











and here they are layed out on the coffee table  



NEXT UP:  mount the vines inside the tank.  then lay the substrate onto the backwall.


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## Miehrano

AWESOME way to make vines!


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## xTimx

Update:

Vines are mounted.  i had troubles with the mounting in the back left corner, hot glue wasnt sticking well.  so i grabbed a nail and pushed it into the vine and into the wall.  now its all good.  
the vines feel awesome!  very flexible and very workable! 
here's pics (SORRY FOR THE BAD QUALITY FOR PICS!  )




















possibly tonight or tomorrow night will be the laying of the substrate to the back wall.   i am pressed for time so i think i will be putting the substrate onto silicone, rather than doing it with the glue. 
I will have my buddy Brad come by and help me with it again.  it'll go fast this way! 
Cheers!

Reactions: Like 1


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## xTimx

well..........buddy Brad Browatzke came over and helped me with the substrate background.. dunno if this is how its supposed to look but i guess we'll find out later if it sticks or not.    we used the straight glue/peat moss method and mixed them together.   made it into a cookie dough texture and layed it on there. 
here's pics








(Crosses fingers and toes)

Reactions: Like 1


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## xTimx

Plants arrived today, will pick them up from the post office tonight after work! pics to come and i'll show you what i bought


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## josh_r

Tim, the best way to adhere substrate to the background is with a polyeurothane glue, like gorilla glue or sika bond. You clean the foam and cover the foam with glue in sections. Wear latex gloves and spread the glue as even as you can with your hands. Then cover with DRY peat and lots of it! The foam bubbles as it cures and it tends to bubble through the peat while curing, so it is important to constantly check on it and press the peat into the glue as it cures. Continue this until the whole thing is covered and then use a shop vacuume to clean up the excess. This will reveal the missed spots. Just cover them the same way. It is VERY important to constantly be pressing your substrate into the glue while it cures otherwise it will not bond well with the peat. It will just push through it. Once this cures (about 15 minutes) it becomes incredibly hard and has actually absorbed into the peat. This leaves you with an exposed surface not of glue, but actual peat or whatever other substrate you use. MUCH better for growing plants on. I suggest you give this a try before continuing with the method you are currently using. I have made many many vivs with the method I have told you and I have NEVER had a problem, but with the method you are using, I have had backgrounds fall apart. Good luck Tim!

Reactions: Like 1


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## xTimx

well the plants are in!  for anyone wondering where i bought them, its a place in bc called Hawaiian Botanicals.   they packed them VERY professionally and they threw in a bonus brom.   which is the Neo "Fireball" which was very nice of them to do!  

so with out further adoooooo.......here we go! 

























thats all that i have.   one of the marble queen pothos is for my friend. 

going to keep them in this sterilite container until my tank is ready to be planted.  

cheers everyone!

Reactions: Like 1


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## xTimx

I just wanted to post 2 more pics of the plants.  the plants are now under direct T5 H/O light.  and will remain there till the tank is done!   these are much better looking pics now.  the colors are amazing on the plants! <3 <3

Reactions: Like 2


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## Bill Myers

Wow, the lighting, along with a gentle misting, has really made the colors pop out on your plants!  Very cool!

Cheers


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## JZC

I gotta post my viv pics. I thought mine came out nice, but yours is putting it to shame! And I lost a frog in the new viv :-( died out of the blue.


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## xTimx

Update:  

Backwall and side walls are done for substrate...  just gotta wait for it to dry 
see if there's any cracks and fix em.  
my back is done...... i need a hot bath with some epsom salts lol 
































next up...... Making of the vents, buying the glass and installing them.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Wikiman12

This is all very interesting... Will definitely be following this post! Good luck.

Reactions: Like 1


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## xTimx

Sherman Vent system installed  used aluminum  i also put the sliding glass track on the vent as well too! 
so far so good...its coming along.
tomorrow i get my panes of glass.  i'll make the top vent along with installing the glass.

Reactions: Like 1


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## xTimx

Glass came in.   unwrapped it and dry fit it. lets just say my tank is out of alignment haha.   trimmed off some wood with a razor knife and it all fits now.  another issue is the top glass track is 1/4" short at the top.  so it doesnt fit all the way across.   another thing is they cut my glass 1/8" too long so i cant get my glass in and out of the tracks.  but thats fine thats a simple solution. a few tweaks here and there,  all will be fine.   (also dont mind the reflections in the glass, the apt is a messy place from building the tank) 









Here's a pic with the aluminum bars that i'm going to use for the vent up top.  



next up.... tweaking the fitment, siliconing the glass in, making of the canopy and skirting the stand.

Reactions: Like 1


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## JZC

I am way too excited to see the outcome of this monster lol!


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## Pandinus97

Very interesting! ive never heard of using plywood for a dart frog enclosure  Im on frog forum under the name Bombina Bob


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## xTimx

Guys help me out here....

how can i fab up something so that i can tell how tall my water level is at? i really dont want it to flood my substrate and such.


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## The Snark

xTimx said:


> Guys help me out here....
> 
> how can i fab up something so that i can tell how tall my water level is at? i really dont want it to flood my substrate and such.


Insert a see through plastic tube and bring it out the side of the enclosure through a hole and have it stick up a ways. A liquid level sight tube??
Do you by chance know what the common bromeliad we have here? The edges of their leaves are like serrated knife blades that can easily give really nasty cuts. I mean just one careless motion and your finger is sliced to the bone.


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## xTimx

just a few pics of the tank lit up with ONE Grow and Glow light.   keep in mind this is only one and i have 4 that are going to be lighting up the tank! 
i love the light on them!  they look great! 










hopefully going to be making the canopy skeleton tonight.  then i cant do much till this next friday as i have to wait for a paycheque to buy my bubinga plywood to wrap the canopy and tank stand.

Reactions: Like 1


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## xTimx

Small Update:

my Cryptanthus Volcano came in from Florida!  she's a beauty!







I'm just currently working on the canopy and skirting of the stand.  i'm in the last few phases of the build.  more updates soon! 

Cheers

Reactions: Like 1


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## josh_r

Looks awesome Tim  This is going to be a screamer when it is done.


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## xTimx

UPDATE:

well....not much of an update really, i got stuff done....but not as much as i would of liked to of.   so over the weekend, i made the skeleton of the canopy, then skinned it and hmmm and hawed over how i was going to make the lid so then i just decided to make the whole canopy a big ass lid on a hinge. 
had a buddy come over on sunday and got the top vent made, along with the holes drilled for the nozzles.   also had to go out and buy some stain for the plywood that i am using for skinning the tank stand and canopy.  took a few tries to match up the actual tank color, but i got it. 
another thing we did was we wired all 4 Grow and Glows up and are ready for them to be installed.   i would of liked to of gotten more stuff done but i just didnt have the time to do it in.  anyways... here's pics. 


Here's the mock up of the skeleton for the canopy with 1 grow and glow lit. 



perimeter of the canopy skinned, you can definitely notice the difference in color between the 3/4" plywood used on the tank and the 1/4" plywood used for the canopy.  


pics of 1 G&G lit up with the canopy over top of it. 





here is the color matching,  i had to wet down the tank in the front to mock up what the poly is gonna look like when its layed on.  needless to say i didnt match it.  but whats not pictured is the sample that i did manage to get to match up the tank.  




ALL 4 GROW AND GLOWS LIT UP! 












here's pics of the glass installed, along with the vent and nozzles mounted up.  (sorry for the blotchy glass)








 

thats all for now.    

this sat i'll be picking up my frogs (providing the roads are good to drive on)

Reactions: Like 2


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## Akai

This is coming along nicely.  That Cryptanthus Volcano is gorgeous and those serrated edges look nasty!


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## xTimx

UPDATE:

frogs are in!!  so happy! here's some crappy pics taken from my phone hahaha. 

they are thrown into a temp 10 gal tank till i get my main tank done. 






I should note that some pics are doubles, cuz i took one with a flash and one with out. 
















included in the deal, are 10 cultures of a mix of springtails, and 3 species of FF's. 4 tadpoles (of the same species),  along with lots of plants.  I definitely gotta get my tank up and going now cuz i seriously need to get this tank planted!

---------- Post added 11-09-2013 at 07:25 PM ----------

more pics here of the 4 tads and the plants

Reactions: Like 1


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## JZC

Awesome. Gorgeous frogs.


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## xTimx

lol thanx 
so last night before bed, i caught all 6 super blues out and about.  


and also last night, i decided to plant my tank.   NOTE this is NOT the final form of it, i WILL be putting leaf litter in, i just dont have enough of it to cover the whole floor.  i am also ordering in some moss as well too.  also the floor substrate is temporary, i will also be adding in some ABG mix sorta (cant find a few of the ingredients here in the city). 


so here i started planting the begonias.......i hate them....they are soooo floppy hahaha.  but i'm greatful of them. i need to put them in water to root them. 



First couple of Broms being planted in

here's the final product... (FOR NOW)




i will be adding more plants in slowly and letting them grow out.  for the time being this is the set up.


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## JZC

My super blues have more bronze/brown. I like yours better. Me likey blue

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ambly

great choice in frogs, your auratus will love it


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## Scolopendras

That is truly an art... just amazing! That's all I can say

Reactions: Like 1


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## xTimx

Update:
since the viv is out of square, the glass doors arent fully closing on the sides of the tank.  so i went out and bought some foam tape thats really thick.  stuck it to the sides of the tank, made a couple of slits on the foam so the glass slides into place when its closed all the way.  i also bought some handles to put on the glass doors to slide the glass open more easily.  
I also made some home made ABG mix, i didnt have the proper ingredients but with the help of Joshsdragonz, him and I made it work out!  


(sorry for the smudged up glass doors)



Gonna work on the canopy today.  next week i get my ac/dc inverter.  i got my fans in this last week so i'm gonna cut the holes for the air flow as well as drill holes for the water lines and put the trim on. (well thats the plan, i've been procrastinating like crazy though lolol)
also....here's more pics of the frogs and the way i was going to mount my lights to the canopy















---------- Post added 11-16-2013 at 02:36 PM ----------

FROG BELLY PICS!!!!

Reactions: Like 1


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## xTimx

Update: 

buddy came over last night and helped me hook up the 8 fans for the ventilation for the canopy,  the fans are mostly to cool off the Grow n Glow lights, but will also draw up air from the top vent on the tank! here's the progress pics from start to finish.   The 8 Fans are hooked up to a Ac/Dc power inverter from 120v to 12v.  











Fans finished. installed and wired and cable managed. 












Next up....applying the maple trim pieces to the outside of the canopy.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Kungfujoe

This is an awesome build! Thanks for sharing.


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## viper69

This keeps looking better and better. Thank you for continuing to update!! I love the frogs..gorgeous. Do you have a link the inverter?


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## xTimx

Update:

worked on the canopy last night. still need to wire the lights in, and route the water lines too.  here's pics 

the Trim pieces on the canopy were cut using a compound mitre joint version. where 3 pieces come together to form a point. 




Like this








Finished product 


here's my buddy brad attaching the hinges.  


Finished product on the tank:


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## viper69

That looks good. This is the one thing that manufacturers are missing, a nice canopy esp one for animals that require high temps.


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## bk10

Very nice build.  You inspired me to think about maybe doing something like this in the future!

Reactions: Like 1


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## xTimx

Weekend Update: (Obligatory?) haha

soooooo the canopy is pretty much done.  buddy brad came over tonight, finished the wiring on the fans, hooked up the tubes for the misting system, get everything fitted in nicely, added a 2nd timer for the lights so i'm actually offsetting the light for morning, afternoon, and evening.  all the timers are set up and set. (here's hoping there wont be a power outage haha) here;s some pics.  

So to start things off,  my brom bloomed 3 flowers.





here's the underside of the canopy.  yes there's Ducttape on there right now but will change that out once i find a better way to attach the wires neatly (probably gorilla tape)






and here it is.... the canopy done, with the lights on and misting on.   i think i'm going to buy more nozzles, possibly 3 more double nozzles to get better coverage. 




and a pic of the misters that just stopped 



Thats it for now.  i didnt get much done this weekend as i wasnt feeling very good  

Cheers!


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## viper69

NICE!!!!!!!!!!!! Now you need to build a nice stand for it..This is gorgeous, my Ts are ready to move in! Are you going to plant it more?


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## Quinquangular

Wow dude. True art, looks so cool...!!!!!
Anyways.
I heard that pet poison dart frogs aren't poisonous since they aren't feeding on poisonous things, since isn't that how poison dart frogs get poisonous? By eating poisonous plants or animals? Forgot.
If that's true, are those plants you put in poisonous? Just really curious, they are so vibrant in color and that use enclosure really shows the beauty of their habitat and the animals themselves!


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## Bill Myers

Quinquangular said:


> Wow dude. True art, looks so cool...!!!!!
> Anyways.
> I heard that pet poison dart frogs aren't poisonous since they aren't feeding on poisonous things, since isn't that how poison dart frogs get poisonous? By eating poisonous plants or animals? Forgot.
> If that's true, are those plants you put in poisonous? Just really curious, they are so vibrant in color and that use enclosure really shows the beauty of their habitat and the animals themselves!


From what I understand, the poison dart frogs synthesize poisonous alkaloids from their prey.  So, the captive bred dart frogs are less toxic because they usually aren't fed a diet of centipedes and other venomous critters.   Dart frogs prey on small insects, so their diet doesn't consist of plants.  Ergo, the plants are of little consequence unless the prey item eats the plants.

That's about all I know on that subject.

Cheers


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## viper69

Bill Myers said:


> captive bred dart frogs are less toxic because..



Actually to be more accurate all dart frogs in captivity are not toxic at all.


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## Mike41793

Bumping this just wondering how it's going? Awesome looking build! 

Sent from my SCH-I435 using Tapatalk


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## xTimx

well.... the frogs are in the tank,  but i got impatient with the build and didnt finish the wrapping on the stand.  so as it sits right now,  the frogs are in the tank like i said. and the plants are growing in it.  i need more plants though for sure.   when i'll be finishing it? well...... dunno yet honestly lol.   things have been coming up in my life that have been pulling me away from the build soooooo...... i hope you guys can understand.   thanx everyone who viewed and liked and thanked the thread! you guys kept me going!  cheers!


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## MagicalLobster

How many frogs are inside?


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## xTimx

Currently there is 5 frogs housed inside.   i'm actually thinking about taking them out and putting them into my 40gal breeder i'm gonna re-build.   then buy some Leucs (probably 6 of them) and put them into this tank.   
I'm also going to be building another tank that'll be placed just below my projector screen.  when i'll be doing that....i dunno.  
i'll be making a new build thread for each new tank.  i'll keep you all informed when i start them up


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