# Leaf Insect Nymph Won't Eat



## thecapke (Jul 27, 2017)

My very first leaf insect hatched 3 days ago but has yet to eat anything. I've tried everything I could think of. I've presented him with torn oak and bramble leaves still on the branch in a tall enclosure, used a fan to simulate wind moving the leaves, placed small torn leaves right by his face, and currently have him in a small enclosure with shredded oak and bramble leaves. All he does is hang out on the top of the enclosures on the mesh screens.

I was hoping to get him eating so when the rest hatch he'll show them what to do. Is there anything else I can try? How long can he last without food? Will multiple nymphs living together encourage eating? I don't have any adult leaf insects and don't know where I would access any in my area.


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## Czech prime (Jul 27, 2017)

thecapke said:


> My very first leaf insect hatched 3 days ago but has yet to eat anything. I've tried everything I could think of. I've presented him with torn oak and bramble leaves still on the branch in a tall enclosure, used a fan to simulate wind moving the leaves, placed small torn leaves right by his face, and currently have him in a small enclosure with shredded oak and bramble leaves. All he does is hang out on the top of the enclosures on the mesh screens.
> 
> I was hoping to get him eating so when the rest hatch he'll show them what to do. Is there anything else I can try? How long can he last without food? Will multiple nymphs living together encourage eating? I don't have any adult leaf insects and don't know where I would access any in my area.


What sp. is this?
Did you cut away the edges of the leaves? 
Make  sure the leaves do not touch the walls of the enclosure so it can not climb to the top. 

If you have a small mesh enclosure set it up in that and set up a small pc fan to stimulate wind.


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## thecapke (Jul 27, 2017)

Tuffz said:


> What sp. is this?
> Did you cut away the edges of the leaves?
> Make  sure the leaves do not touch the walls of the enclosure so it can not climb to the top.
> 
> If you have a small mesh enclosure set it up in that and set up a small pc fan to stimulate wind.


They are Phyllium jacobsoni. I'm going to see if any local garden centers have eucalyptus that he might be more encouraged to eat.

All the leaves I've given him were cut and ripped and it did not matter if the leaves were touching the sides or not coz he can climb on anything, mesh or smooth plastic. I did try using a fan and made sure it was not hitting the leaves directly so the movement was very gentle but he just ended up hiding and did not want to go near the leaves.


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## boina (Jul 27, 2017)

thecapke said:


> They are Phyllium jacobsoni. I'm going to see if any local garden centers have eucalyptus that he might be more encouraged to eat.
> 
> All the leaves I've given him were cut and ripped and it did not matter if the leaves were touching the sides or not coz he can climb on anything, mesh or smooth plastic. I did try using a fan and made sure it was not hitting the leaves directly so the movement was very gentle but he just ended up hiding and did not want to go near the leaves.


I've bred Phyllium jacobsoni for a while and I found them somewhat difficult. Maybe counter intuitive, but mine always much prefered older leaves - they would not take fresh young leaves. I had the best success rate using only bramble leaves - older, darker green leaves, as I said. They disliked the fuzz on the young leaves. You should also spray the leaves with water (small droplets) if you haven't done that yet. Still, only about 50% of my nymphs made it. After a couple of molts they are pretty hardy, though. Personally I found it doesn't matter if you cut the edges of the leaves or you don't. If they aren't going to eat by themselves I never found out how to make them eat.
Otherwise, it really sounds as if you are doing everything right.

(I finally gave mine away because one pair can easily produce 100s in offspring...)


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## thecapke (Jul 27, 2017)

boina said:


> I've bred Phyllium jacobsoni for a while and I found them somewhat difficult. Maybe counter intuitive, but mine always much prefered older leaves - they would not take fresh young leaves. I had the best success rate using only bramble leaves - older, darker green leaves, as I said. They disliked the fuzz on the young leaves. You should also spray the leaves with water (small droplets) if you haven't done that yet. Still, only about 50% of my nymphs made it. After a couple of molts they are pretty hardy, though. Personally I found it doesn't matter if you cut the edges of the leaves or you don't. If they aren't going to eat by themselves I never found out how to make them eat.
> Otherwise, it really sounds as if you are doing everything right.
> 
> (I finally gave mine away because one pair can easily produce 100s in offspring...)


Thanks. After the research I've done it seems like it's really a numbers game. I've only given him the old leaves because I've heard the newer leaves are toxic and I do keep the leaves misted. I only have 5 eggs left to hatch so we'll see how the rest fair. Might have to try another species after this.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Andee (Jul 27, 2017)

Leaf insects are a harder species in general when in comes to phasmids. Each individual species of them are very finicky. Does he have a photo period? He may require one. I have realized certain phasmids do better with photo periods.


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## thecapke (Jul 27, 2017)

Andee said:


> Leaf insects are a harder species in general when in comes to phasmids. Each individual species of them are very finicky. Does he have a photo period? He may require one. I have realized certain phasmids do better with photo periods.


Yes, he is kept next to an open window all day, but in light shade. Might moving him into direct sunlight be better?


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## Andee (Jul 27, 2017)

No I wouldn't recommend moving him into direct light... I would worry he'd bake himself then. If he has general just light that goes through his cage even if it's shaded slightly he should be fine with photoperiods... Are you sure he's not eating? Like you see no feces at all?


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## thecapke (Jul 27, 2017)

Andee said:


> No I wouldn't recommend moving him into direct light... I would worry he'd bake himself then. If he has general just light that goes through his cage even if it's shaded slightly he should be fine with photoperiods... Are you sure he's not eating? Like you see no feces at all?


I haven't seen any and he spends zero time on the leaves. He was walking on the leaves earlier today so I'll look a little closer when I get home.


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## Andee (Jul 27, 2017)

His frass will be super tiny, black little dots even compared to most phasmids. You won't likely see much nibbles and he may be more of a night eater.

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## Andee (Jul 27, 2017)

I was worried about it too when I first kept any phasmid but especially leafs, but I realized if they didn't start eating the second day they would die. So it's likely your little one is eating you just haven't noticed. Most species of phasmid, whether leaf or stick are relatively nocturnal, (idk about your type specifically since I haven't looked him up) but they may move about during the day on and off especially as nymphs, but they don't do near as much as at night. And most nymphs will snack a bit during the day but as adults they will sleep during it mostly and power up at night. If he's survived this long he's likely eating and doing well. What you have to worry about most likely now is getting him through molts. Leaf insects are some of the hardest to get through molts especially when they get older.


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## thecapke (Jul 27, 2017)

Andee said:


> I was worried about it too when I first kept any phasmid but especially leafs, but I realized if they didn't start eating the second day they would die. So it's likely your little one is eating you just haven't noticed. Most species of phasmid, whether leaf or stick are relatively nocturnal, (idk about your type specifically since I haven't looked him up) but they may move about during the day on and off especially as nymphs, but they don't do near as much as at night. And most nymphs will snack a bit during the day but as adults they will sleep during it mostly and power up at night. If he's survived this long he's likely eating and doing well. What you have to worry about most likely now is getting him through molts. Leaf insects are some of the hardest to get through molts especially when they get older.


That's really good to know. For helping,with molts, it's mostly just keeping up humidity, right? The enclosures I've made are very well ventilated so I mist them at least twice a day.


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## Andee (Jul 27, 2017)

Ummm yes they need humidity but they also need enough space to hang. So as they get larger they made need to be upgraded

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## Andee (Jul 27, 2017)

And you have to be super careful not to disturb them during a molt if you catch them in the process, don't move thee enclosure, don't replace anything, if you mist, mist away from them. If they fall it's pretty much a death sentence.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## solemnzoroark (Jul 27, 2017)

If you don't mind me asking, where did you acquire your specimen from?


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## thecapke (Jul 27, 2017)

solemnzoroark said:


> If you don't mind me asking, where did you acquire your specimen from?


I got them from a seller on eBay located in Italy. I'm assuming they're captive bread and they only had a few species available when I purchased the leaf insects

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## Czech prime (Jul 28, 2017)

Andee said:


> And you have to be super careful not to disturb them during a molt if you catch them in the process, don't move thee enclosure, don't replace anything, if you mist, mist away from them. If they fall it's pretty much a death sentence.


Sometimes if they are small enough and if you find them molting on the floor soon enough they can molt in your hands without a problem. But usually they are hardy species and not phyllium (eg. Unidentified ABC, Heteropteryxes,..)

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## Andee (Jul 28, 2017)

Tuffz said:


> Sometimes if they are small enough and if you find them molting on the floor soon enough they can molt in your hands without a problem. But usually they are hardy species and not phyllium (eg. Unidentified ABC, Heteropteryxes,..)


Yeah I have had larger stick insects (not giant species or bulkier species like jungle nymphs etc) successfully molt after falling or being in a weird angle, sometimes all that is lost is a leg or some appendage. But sadly almost all leaf insects I have had, most of the phyllium variety have not had good molts once being disturbed or falling. It always frustrates me especially if it's the very last molt and then all of sudden the just can't.

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## thecapke (Jul 28, 2017)

Thanks for the advice everyone! He's been super active today and he's begun lightening in color.


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## Andee (Jul 28, 2017)

YAY ^^ seems like he's doing well then. Sadly when these guys get sick there isn't tons you can do. But it seems like your little guys is kicking butt.

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## Czech prime (Jul 29, 2017)

Andee said:


> Yeah I have had larger stick insects (not giant species or bulkier species like jungle nymphs etc) successfully molt after falling or being in a weird angle, sometimes all that is lost is a leg or some appendage. But sadly almost all leaf insects I have had, most of the phyllium variety have not had good molts once being disturbed or falling. It always frustrates me especially if it's the very last molt and then all of sudden the just can't.


Giant species can molt ok after falling as well 
I've had a Heteropteryx nymph in L3 fall and she lost a leg and twisted 2. Today she is sub-adult and looks as good as any other jungle nymph

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## Malhavoc's (Jul 29, 2017)

are these now legal to keep in the U.S?


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## Andee (Jul 29, 2017)

Tuffz said:


> Giant species can molt ok after falling as well
> I've had a Heteropteryx nymph in L3 fall and she lost a leg and twisted 2. Today she is sub-adult and looks as good as any other jungle nymph


I have never had large giant species. They don't make good feeders and unless they are leaf insects I prefer my stick insects to kind of have a dual purpose other than love raising them.


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## Czech prime (Jul 30, 2017)

Andee said:


> I have never had large giant species. They don't make good feeders and unless they are leaf insects I prefer my stick insects to kind of have a dual purpose other than love raising them.


The hunter can become the hunted with those  Also they are way too expensive/take way too long to grow to be wasted as feeders


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## thecapke (Aug 1, 2017)

Malhavoc's said:


> are these now legal to keep in the U.S?


Yes! Are far as I can tell there no restrictions on keeping phasmids. Always check your local govt first just in case. I think this was changed in 2012


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## thecapke (Aug 1, 2017)

And sad to say my guy died last night, but I have no idea what happened. I have another new hatchling I'll be keeping a close eye on.


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