# XXL roach feeders?



## truthsdeceit (Sep 20, 2010)

Don't know where else to post this. 

I'm trying to decide what kind of roach I should get if I want really really really big feeders. I'm feeding a savannah monitor, he's eating large nymph dubias right now and I want to get a colony of something larger going before he outgrows them.
I've got time to nurture a small colony into a very large one, and plan to maintain a large tank so I should have enough adult breeders to produce lots of feeders. However a savannah monitor can eat 30+ roaches at meal time so I do need a lot of feeders twice a week.
The main thing I want is a extra large roach so that I can feed 20 -30 appropriately sized ones instead of 50+ little ones. Also bigger feeders are easier for a large animal to catch... ever see an adult beardie trying to catch crickets, lol. :}

Anyways.
The ones I'm considering are:
http://www.theinvertshop.com/product_images/w/100_6596__53987_thumb.jpg
Gromphadorhina Portentosa  (Madagascar *common* hissing cockroach) up to 3 1/2inches in size.. downsides... good climbers, shell too hard? slow breeders.
or Gromphadorhina oblongata , (Madagascar *Giant* hissing cockroach), 4 inches... same issues as the common.
Monitors are pretty strong so I'm sure he could crunch the hard shell but would he have issues digesting them?... anyone know how big nymphs get, before the shell becomes the hard as an adult?

http://www.theinvertshop.com/product_images/c/100_3832__62456_thumb.jpg
Eublaberus distanti, about 2 - 3 inches, really meaty. slow breeder. I had a hard time finding info on these. And my dubias get to be 2inches so I don't know if these are big enough

http://www.blaberus.com/gallery/Blaberus giganteus.jpeg
Blaberus giganteus, 3 1/2 inches. Can kinda fly. These sound pretty good but I can't find any good suppliers.

Or if someone knows of a better roach for my needs please pipe up.
Also had anyone bought from theinvertshop.com ? What did you think?


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## jt39565 (Sep 20, 2010)

Why dont you just go with mice & use the roaches as a means of exercise? If you dont want to put up with the smell of breeding mice maybe you could go with gerbils, they are lots easier than mice.


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## zonbonzovi (Sep 20, 2010)

You'll prob. have more luck in the "Not So Spineless" section regarding the feeding of monitors, though details on roaches as feeders are appropriate here.  

theinvertshop.com has many reviews in the dealers section...give it a gander

Always good to see another local...PM me sometime and we'll talk shop.  Cheers,

John


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## truthsdeceit (Sep 20, 2010)

jt39565 said:


> Why dont you just go with mice & use the roaches as a means of exercise? If you dont want to put up with the smell of breeding mice maybe you could go with gerbils, they are lots easier than mice.


I'm actually a rodent breeder (www.rodentworks.net), but monitors are mainly insectivores in the wild and the number one cause of obese/sick savannahs is keepers who only feed rodents. So I need an Xl-roach.



zonbonzovi said:


> You'll prob. have more luck in the "Not So Spineless" section regarding the feeding of monitors, though details on roaches as feeders are appropriate here.
> 
> theinvertshop.com has many reviews in the dealers section...give it a gander
> 
> ...


I'm mostly looking for details on the roaches.. I know what my monitor needs I just need to figure out which species of roach will best fit that.

I'll deff pop over to the dealers section. thanks.

go WA. lol. loving the rain?


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## EightLeggedFrea (Sep 20, 2010)

Have you considered great peppered roaches (Archimandrita tesselata) or Blaberus fusca? They might work as they both get to around 3" and supposedly breed easily, but I've never raised them. I'm also tempted to offer B. discoidalis but I tried them and couldn't get them to breed for some reason (maybe I wasn't doing something right?).


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## truthsdeceit (Sep 20, 2010)

EightLeggedFrea said:


> I'm no expert but aren't savs mostly natural insectivores? And mice are very fatty to begin with, so wouldn't predominately rodent diet be unhealthy for a large insectivorous lizard?
> 
> And to the OP: have you considered great peppered roaches (Archimandrita tesselata) or Blaberus fusca? They might work as they both get to around 3" and supposedly breed easily, but I've never raised them. I'm also tempted to offer B. discoidalis but I tried them and couldn't get them to breed for some reason (maybe I wasn't doing something right?).


Thank you! It's nice when someone else knows whats what.
It bothers me that so many people think rodents are the answer if you can't find an insect big enough.... :wall:

My monitor gets 2 small mice a month, which is okay cause he's a growing juvenile... the rest of his diet is insects and I'd like to keep it that way.. hence the need for bigger roaches.

I've added the Blaberus fusca to my list... It's looking like the best one so far just cause it doesn't climb.. which is a big plus, cause my bf and roomie already hate my dubias. but I don't know if they're big enough.. maxing at 2 3/4 inches


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## zonbonzovi (Sep 20, 2010)

I won't even pretend to know what a monitors' needs are, but if you had a LARGE colony, I don't see why portentosa wouldn't be a good option.  Baby production is just slow.  If you need numbers, dubia won't disappoint, just not sure if it would be large enough for your needs.  

I need some F/T so I could bring you a sample in adult sizes next weekend(if you're around) and you can see what you think.


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## jt39565 (Sep 20, 2010)

"The savannah monitor, as one would expect given the common name, is found in the savannahs and grasslands of central Africa. These animals are superbly adapted predators that hunt and forage during the cooler daylight hours for foods consisting of insects, birds, eggs, rodents, and other reptiles."

http://lllreptile.com/info/library/animal-care-sheets/lizards-and-monitors/-/savanna-monitor/

I am  well aware of the savannah's diet, as they are "Oppurtunistic" feeders - they also do quite well witha diet supplemented with catfood. The main reason most savannahs get fat is because they don't have the oppurtunity to get exercise. in the wild they may travel 2 miles for a meal, in captivity they barely leave their hidebox. They are also immune to a cobra's venom, which they readily devour, is a cobra an insect? Not hardly.


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## Nicole (Sep 20, 2010)

I'd go with the hissers.  Easier and cheaper to get started with, and I think they get to breeding size faster than the giganteus.


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## Nikos (Sep 20, 2010)

I understand that you are looking for a roach species but why don't you try locusts?
these get quite big.


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## ZephAmp (Sep 20, 2010)

Blaberus giganteus and Archimandrita tesselata are incredibly unwise choices. They are very slow-growing and slow-reproducing.

You're really looking at 3 options; Blaberus fusca, Gromphadorhina portentosa, and Blaberus sp. Hybrids. All of these reproduce moderately quickly and can be kept on nothing but egg crates. Not nearly as quickly as say, Nauphoeta cinerea, but relatively quickly for their sizes.

EDIT- I suppose Eublaberus prosticus or Eublaberus distanti could be used. E. prosticus multiplies incredibly quickly (like B. dubia) and is large (but nowhere near the other listed species' sizes) whereas E. distanti is larger than E. prosticus but multiplies less quickly. E. distanti also needs a substrate to be kept comfortable and breeding well.


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## cacoseraph (Sep 20, 2010)

you might consider snipping at least the hind legs of hissers if you go that route.  i used them as feeders for my bugs when i had a big colony of them going... but i never just threw a live adult to any of my pets

typically i would either stake them out, one through the "heart" and one through the head for an hour or more to prekill them.... but sometimes if i didn't want to wait that long i would just snip their legs off


their kick spikes have made me bleed before. it's more of a concern when feeding them to bugs that are within an order of magnitude of their size... but maybe still something to think about


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## truthsdeceit (Sep 20, 2010)

zonbonzovi said:


> I won't even pretend to know what a monitors' needs are, but if you had a LARGE colony, I don't see why portentosa wouldn't be a good option.  Baby production is just slow.  If you need numbers, dubia won't disappoint, just not sure if it would be large enough for your needs.
> 
> I need some F/T so I could bring you a sample in adult sizes next weekend(if you're around) and you can see what you think.


I already have a colony of dubia... that's what he's eating now. lol.
If you are interested in feeder rodents please shoot me an email at rodentworks@gmail.com and we'll discuss if further. I may be interested in getting  some starter portentosa from you... trade?



ZephAmp said:


> Blaberus giganteus and Archimandrita tesselata are incredibly unwise choices. They are very slow-growing and slow-reproducing.
> 
> You're really looking at 3 options; Blaberus fusca, Gromphadorhina portentosa, and Blaberus sp. Hybrids. All of these reproduce moderately quickly and can be kept on nothing but egg crates. Not nearly as quickly as say, Nauphoeta cinerea, but relatively quickly for their sizes.
> 
> EDIT- I suppose Eublaberus prosticus or Eublaberus distanti could be used. E. prosticus multiplies incredibly quickly (like B. dubia) and is large (but nowhere near the other listed species' sizes) whereas E. distanti is larger than E. prosticus but multiplies less quickly. E. distanti also needs a substrate to be kept comfortable and breeding well.


Thank you! this was very helpful. I'm leaning very heavily towards the hissers because I find them facinating... might was well like the feeder colony. Only thing I'm wary of is the fact that they can climb glass.



cacoseraph said:


> you might consider snipping at least the hind legs of hissers if you go that route.  i used them as feeders for my bugs when i had a big colony of them going... but i never just threw a live adult to any of my pets
> 
> typically i would either stake them out, one through the "heart" and one through the head for an hour or more to prekill them.... but sometimes if i didn't want to wait that long i would just snip their legs off
> 
> ...


I'll definitely keep  clipping the legs in mind. Especially when feeding off extra males. The way I work it now I feed off extra males and large nymphs from my dubia colony... I don't like feeding off adult females cause more often than not they have an egg case inside them. So I'd probably do the same with my new hisser colony once they get established.

I want to feed my monitor live because it's good exercise for him to chase them. 

*To everyone else who replied*
Thanks so much for all the suggestions. I'm leaning heavily towards hissers. Any info on care and feeding would be appreciated. 
I'm off to do more research now too.


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## LeilaNami (Sep 20, 2010)

truthsdeceit said:


> I already have a colony of dubia... that's what he's eating now. lol.
> If you are interested in feeder rodents please shoot me an email at rodentworks@gmail.com and we'll discuss if further. I may be interested in getting  some starter portentosa from you... trade?
> 
> 
> ...


With hissers, I just mist their cage once a week and feed a diet of weight management dog food with fresh veggies.  Now I don't think "slow" is a proper term for baby production...It's been...4 months I think and my babies are still not mature but they are bigger.    You can keep them on paper but I keep them on cocofiber.  Keep a good ratio of females to males because my males like to go and eat the oothecae off my females.  I would definitely keep a smaller, highly productive colony next to the hissers to substitute if you're short.


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## moose35 (Sep 20, 2010)

i have both dubia and E. prosticus

here is a couple pics so you could compare. the prosticus are about twice the size in mass then the dubia.

1 molt away from adult






adults






           moose


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## Rich65 (Sep 21, 2010)

I would suggest discoids, thet are larger than dubia, when kept warm reproduce quickly are softer bodied than hissers, don't climb, another plus !!!!! The E. posticus would my second choice, and I agree with ZephAmp, gianteus, peppereds are more expensive and take way to long to mature, up to 10 months or so on giganteus.

RICH


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## Mister Internet (Sep 21, 2010)

I had looked at it before and had settled on B fusca, but then I ended up not getting any more BIG centipedes... I think they are the best blend of common/reasonably priced, size, and speed of growth...


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## dtknow (Sep 22, 2010)

fusca would be a good bet, good breeders. Mad hissers should be ok and breed quite well also-I bet you could get away without clipping the legs. Savannahs frequently eat snails in the wild(their jaw morphology is adapted to give the most force at the rear) so even hard bodied roaches should be crushed. A note to those suggesting peppereds and giganteus etc. etc. ....husbandry requirements, prices, and pet roach status should allow one to conclude they do NOT make good feeders whether one has kept them or not! 

E. prosticus would be a good choice also. But I'm sure you could still keep the Savannah eating dubias when it is full size-it will just take lots of them.


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## KnightinGale (Sep 24, 2010)

I find climbing to not really be a problem with my hissers now that they are settled. They like to stay where the food and the shelter is. My habitat is secure, but if you are worried, smear some oil or pretrolium jelly around the top three inches of your enclosure.  I leave them ferret food (just because I have ferrets, not cats and dogs...it is a good high-quality high-protein food). They have that available all the time and I switch out fruits and veg every couple days. Not surprisingly, diet seems to affect their colouration somewhat: give them lots of carrot and they'll be more orange etc. (They will eat most things, but some protein is important or they can start nibbling on each other.) If you are going to have a colony in a 10 gallon or larger, then one of those heating pads that can go on the bottom is great. If you put it on one end they can move back and forth to regulate their temperature as they please. If you give them that heat and plenty of good food they will grow and breed faster. With the heat-pad I like to give them a nice layer of substrate. You can keep a water dish if you like (with pebbles to keep nymphs from drowning) or you can keep the substrate a little damp (not wet) and they can get enough moisture out of that and their food. Of course, they need lots of hiding places like any roach, but the type is up to you.
  Have fun, and hope your monitor likes them! I only have arachnids, and I only feed younger softer ones, so let us know if your reptile takes to the crunchy adults. (Aaw, I want a lizard too.)   
Knight in Gale


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