# Western Hognose Snake Advice



## Jackie (Oct 17, 2007)

Hey there.
I was wondering if anyone could help me. I bought two Western Hognose snake babies in August, supposedly a breeding pair. The female is a little fatty and will eat anything and everything, even though she only gets pinkies. The male however refuses to eat. I tried everything, was even told he was too small for pinkies so the person told me to syringe feed it puppy food. He still hasn't grown like the female has and I was able to get him to eat a pinky by sticking the head in his mouth, I'm just afraid I'm going to hurt him. I also don't want to take away his hunting instinct. 
Any suggestions?

Jackie


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## JColt (Oct 18, 2007)

You wont take away his hunting instincts. Keep feeding him, take your time when doing it and you will have a good chance of him feeding normally once he gets a bit bigger.


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## glamiswarrior (Oct 18, 2007)

im interested in getting a hognose. i hear that they are semi venomous but there fangs are in the rear of their mouths and are really ineffective on humans. is this true?? also i hear that their main diet is toads???


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## JColt (Oct 18, 2007)

Eastern Hogs mainly eat toads, westerns will normally take mice. If a large hog was able to get his rear fang in you it would be almost like a bee sting. Itchy and bit of swelling.


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## mindlessvw (Oct 18, 2007)

you can try scenting the mouse with a frog...just rub it all over it...also ask the guy you got it from what he was feeding it and how...


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## Beardo (Oct 18, 2007)

A supposedly breedable male Hognose is "too small for pinky mice"? Somethings fishy here.....how big is the snake? 

Sometimes males (adults) will go off feed during this time of the year in preparation for the winter cool down.


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## AneesasMuse (Oct 18, 2007)

When you say you bought a breeding pair.. do you mean they were sold to you as a currently breeding pair or you are going to raise them up to become a breeding pair? I'm with DavidBeard on this... "eating pinky mice" is pretty small to be breeding.


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## mindlessvw (Oct 18, 2007)

sorry i didn't even catch that part...good questions?


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## OldHag (Oct 18, 2007)

I just got a baby female hognose. She is this years baby. Shes very tiny. She was labled as a Non-eater so I got her for free basically.  I got her to eat small pinkies by washing the pinkie with dish soap and rinsing VERY VERY well, then braining the pinkie and putting it in her cage. She eats it everytime now.
Try that method, or putting the food in a snake bag with the snake and leaving it in the cage overnight.
I cant imagine feeding a snake dog food is very good for it.....


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## Jackie (Oct 18, 2007)

haha yeah i meant to be raised as a breeding pair... now i feel like a dummy. I tried the braining thing and he was resistant to it. I didn't think the dog food was a good idea either, god knows why I listened to the wench. :? As long as I'm not taking away his instincts of hurting him I'll be alright with it, I just don't want him to die. Everyone is so helpful! Thank you so much.

Jackie


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## Jmugleston (Oct 18, 2007)

*Try washing the pink and scenting with toads.*

This method (toad scenting) was mentioned above, and it is a common practice for picky hogs. I may have missed this, but were you trying live or frozen pinks. Some my hatchling colubrids take frozen/thawed pinks right away, but others refuse these and only eat live. 
As for venom: Some report that when being bit it was itchy in the area, but no real pain. Other I have spoken with say it was no different than a bite from a similar sized kingsnake.


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## Takumaku (Oct 18, 2007)

Another scenting method that I have been very successful with is scenting with tuna water/juice.  It's the juice that comes from a can of tuna fish.


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## Mushroom Spore (Oct 19, 2007)

Jackie said:


> I also don't want to take away his hunting instinct.


This is impossible. That's like thinking you can take away a person's instinct to breathe. It's not a learned behavior, they can't "forget" how to do it. Although it's still safer and better for all involved to be feeding dead prey.

Also I'm glad you didn't listen to that woman about the dog food thing, what the crap, seriously. :wall:


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## mindlessvw (Oct 19, 2007)

other things that might scent well are lizards too...some times(not always) if they are really tiny they will eat insects...i have a coach whip that munches crix down...he would be on pinky parts otherwise...like  i said sis you ask the woman what she had been feeding it?


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## Jackie (Oct 19, 2007)

Hmm I tried the pinky scenting, both frozen and live with a frog (it was a lot of fun to try and catch it haha) and the live pinkies always would die because he just didn't want to touch them. I also tried the paper bag trick, putting him in a bag with a pinky and sticking it in the tank, and also I even did the braining where I took a thawed out pink and bashed it up to pour all over the live pink (mmm delicious). I think he's just very sensitive about his weight .


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## rollinkansas (Oct 23, 2007)

Jackie said:


> Hmm I tried the pinky scenting, both frozen and live with a frog (it was a lot of fun to try and catch it haha) and the live pinkies always would die because he just didn't want to touch them. I also tried the paper bag trick, putting him in a bag with a pinky and sticking it in the tank, and also I even did the braining where I took a thawed out pink and bashed it up to pour all over the live pink (mmm delicious). I think he's just very sensitive about his weight .


If hes not eating after braining, scenting with anoles and toads, paper bag, etc you can use a pinky pump if nothing else works.


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## Galadriel (Oct 23, 2007)

I just want to point out that, if in the extremely unlikely event, you are envenomated by your western hognose, the results may be worse than an itchy bee sting.
http://www.herpnet.net/bite/

This happened several years ago, and hognose have gone on a few ban lists because of it. These were EXTREME circumstances (who would let their snake chew on them?), but it IS a factual and documented result of a western hognose envenomation.


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## Beardo (Oct 23, 2007)

A person's reaction to a bite varies from person to person.....I've been chewed on by Hognoses before and has absolutely zero symptoms.


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## Philth (Oct 23, 2007)

It said... " After about 3-5 minutes the snake continued to chew so I dunked it under cool tap water which caused it to quickly release it's grip."

Why did he wait 3-5 mins to get it off ?:? 

Later, Tom


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## Jackie (Oct 23, 2007)

rollinkansas said:


> If hes not eating after braining, scenting with anoles and toads, paper bag, etc you can use a pinky pump if nothing else works.


May I ask what exactly a pinky pump is and where I may get it? Also I was told that I'm stressing out the snakes by forcing them, which isn't my goal either. 
I have a new problem too... My female just shed and now she's deciding to be anorexic... Should I keep forcing them or just offer and after like a month of still no eating force again? 

Also, I definitely agree with Tom on why the guy let the snake bite him for 3-5 minutes? That just allowed more venom in which is probably why he blew up. If I ever get bit I'll let you know what happens, which may be soon because the female just turned into a bitch lol.

Thanks,
Jackie


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## rollinkansas (Oct 23, 2007)

Jackie said:


> May I ask what exactly a pinky pump is and where I may get it? Also I was told that I'm stressing out the snakes by forcing them, which isn't my goal either.
> I have a new problem too... My female just shed and now she's deciding to be anorexic... Should I keep forcing them or just offer and after like a month of still no eating force again?
> 
> Also, I definitely agree with Tom on why the guy let the snake bite him for 3-5 minutes? That just allowed more venom in which is probably why he blew up. If I ever get bit I'll let you know what happens, which may be soon because the female just turned into a bitch lol.
> ...


Cant you get them at megapets? Ok that was a mean joke.

A pinky pump is like a big metal needle, but where the liquid goes in, you put in a pinky. Then when you press down on the depressor, it squishes the pinky into mush, which you push into the snakes throat. They are like $60, so idk if youll want to do that.

Im also pretty sure its normal for a snake not to eat right after shedding...wait a week. All snakes do is sleep, eat, and shit so you dont need to worry so much about always feeding since most have slow metabolisms. 

Also, you wouldnt have this problem if you kept geckos instead


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## Beardo (Oct 24, 2007)

Its normal for a snake to not eat DURING a shed, but not after. 

How are you keeping the snakes? Hognoses are typically pretty easy and hardy but babies can be more susceptible to husbandry mishaps.


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## Galadriel (Oct 24, 2007)

This is why I said MAY be worse than a bee sting, and the circumstances were EXTREME. I would certainly never let any animal of any species use me as a chew toy and I doubt any of you would either  =)


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## mindlessvw (Oct 24, 2007)

This could be them trying to winter themselves as well...have you consulted a vet, done a fecal, and all the other things to ensure you are working with a healthy snake?


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## Jackie (Oct 26, 2007)

rollinkansas said:


> Cant you get them at megapets? Ok that was a mean joke.
> 
> Also, you wouldnt have this problem if you kept geckos instead


Nice, Mike, you're terrible! Poor Megapets is down and out, stop picking on it! I'll make sure I look into your geckos, dummy.

Also, my snakes are in a ten gallon tank with moss as a bedding. I try to keep it moist and I have both day and night heat lamps on it. Anything I should do differently?


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## rollinkansas (Oct 26, 2007)

Jackie said:


> Nice, Mike, you're terrible! Poor Megapets is down and out, stop picking on it! I'll make sure I look into your geckos, dummy.
> 
> Also, my snakes are in a ten gallon tank with moss as a bedding. I try to keep it moist and I have both day and night heat lamps on it. Anything I should do differently?


http://lllreptile.com/info/library/animal-care-sheets/snakes/-/western-hognose-snake/


thats a pretty comprehensive care sheet.


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## Drachenjager (Oct 29, 2007)

why not try small frogs ? umm seems simple to me


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## ErinKelley (Oct 29, 2007)

*Just Wondering..*

I just want to point out an often overlooked factor in regards to handling an animal when they are not thriving or suspected sick.  I always found it  critically important that they were not handled, especially the small or young until the problem has passed.  

Also make sure your heat is from underneath with a pad or a combination of pad and light.  And I never misted Western hognose on a regular basis, always seemed to be better on the dryer side.

I think it's a good idea to double, triple check all environmental factors.  Make sure everything is perfect and try offering a washed, frog/lizard scented live pinky.  One that won't give them a fight to kill and get down their throats.

http://www.reptileallsorts.com/westhognose-cs.htm
http://webspinners.com/coloherp/careshts/snakes/hognose.php

Here's more info that sounds about right to me, just in case you need it anyway!

Good Luck!

Erin


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## Thoth (Oct 29, 2007)

Are you housing them together in the same tank?  That maybe affecting them and causing them not to eat. If possible try housing them seperately.


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## Jackie (Oct 31, 2007)

Hmm that might work. I think soon the female is gonna eat the male. I'm waiting a little while before I feed them again just to make sure they are hungry and I know they will NEED to eat. I'll definitely go over the care sheets I glanced at them quickly and they look very informational. You guys are so helpful!!

Does anyone have any hognoses that had the same or similar problem? Mine are a pain in the butt. :wall:


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## Drachenjager (Oct 31, 2007)

Jackie said:


> Hmm that might work. I think soon the female is gonna eat the male. I'm waiting a little while before I feed them again just to make sure they are hungry and I know they will NEED to eat. I'll definitely go over the care sheets I glanced at them quickly and they look very informational. You guys are so helpful!!
> 
> Does anyone have any hognoses that had the same or similar problem? Mine are a pain in the butt. :wall:


pinkies arent thier natural food, so you probably have to train it to eat them. if it gets bad try frogs like they eat in the wild.


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## Jackie (Oct 31, 2007)

I don't want to feed them frogsssss!!!! They're pets! Not food! Haha


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## Drachenjager (Oct 31, 2007)

Jackie said:


> I don't want to feed them frogsssss!!!! They're pets! Not food! Haha


lol well maybe a copperhead would be a better choice , mice is thier natural food lol
eastern hognose snakes are reallly hard to get to eat pinkies i hear. like they starve to death hard. westerns are supposed to be easier, but ...how bout toads


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## Beardo (Nov 1, 2007)

Drachenjager said:


> lol well maybe a copperhead would be a better choice , mice is thier natural food lol
> eastern hognose snakes are reallly hard to get to eat pinkies i hear. like they starve to death hard. westerns are supposed to be easier, but ...how bout toads


She HAS Westerns, not Easterns....most Westerns take to rodents quite readily. 

Sounds to me like somebody sold you a pair of non-feeding baby Westerns without you knowing any better. Did we ever establish how big the snakes were?


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## Drachenjager (Nov 1, 2007)

DavidBeard said:


> She HAS Westerns, not Easterns....most Westerns take to rodents quite readily.
> 
> Sounds to me like somebody sold you a pair of non-feeding baby Westerns without you knowing any better. Did we ever establish how big the snakes were?


yeah thats pretty much what i said. BUT frogs and toads are the NATURAL and preferred diet of westerns too. and i hear a lot of folks have to wash the pinkies and rub them wiht a frog or toad to make it smell like one for them to eat it. at least for a while.


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## rollinkansas (Nov 1, 2007)

Jackie said:


> I don't want to feed them frogsssss!!!! They're pets! Not food! Haha


some people say the same thing about mice and rats..."but they are pets"

Just scent a mouse with a frog or toad if thats what it takes to get the snakes eating.

Or just do what Tom and the rest of the world will agree with and just go back to the store.


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## Jackie (Nov 2, 2007)

DavidBeard said:


> Sounds to me like somebody sold you a pair of non-feeding baby Westerns without you knowing any better. Did we ever establish how big the snakes were?


They're probably about 7-9 inches in length, the female a bit bigger in length and width. The female was eating fine until her recent shed, but the male had a thawed out pinky in his container at the time of purchase. I got a nice deal and they were so fascinating I just had to get them.


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## rollinkansas (Nov 2, 2007)

Jackie said:


> I got a nice deal



If its too good to be true, it probably is. Now you know why you got a nice deal on them.


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## Nivek (Nov 3, 2007)

Hey, I had the same problem. Two baby westerns that wouldn't eat. A friend of mine suggested dipping them in tuna with water. Not tuna with oil, that's obviously very important lol. That did the trick 2/3 times from my experience.


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## Jackie (Nov 5, 2007)

I forcefed the male again last night, he just doesn't want anything to do with these pinkies. I'm thinking he might be scared of them or something because once i get the head into his mouth he swallows it. The female almost didn't eat again but i tried washing it with hot water (no soap though) and after that she went for it. I'm still trying guys!! :?


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## arachnonick2 (Nov 6, 2007)

I have a male hognose. It is quite normal for them to go off the feed for a while. Especially during the winter months. My best advice is to wait a while. Dont handle your snake, for a few weeks. Keep it a bit warmer. But most importantly make sure it is not disturbed, they can be pretty sensitive. After a few weeks, introduce a live pinky around dusk. Dont stick around for it to eat, just go back a few hours later to make sure that it has eaten it. However if your snake is losing some body mass, force feeding might be a emergency alternative. Also a neat trick is tuna water. Bath the pinky in the water from a can of tuna, Ive had some pretty good results with this.


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## Galapoheros (Nov 6, 2007)

I've wanted W hogs for a while but I just never have done it.  I have hatched a few snakes, not many.  Some I saw hatch didn't eat for many months.  If I remember right, I had some baby Kingsnakes that hatched around August.  They just would not eat.  I cooled them down for winter.  They didn't eat until the following spring.  I was really worried about them.  Now they pig out.  I wonder if not eating may be normal for it right now.


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## Jackie (Nov 26, 2007)

I hope so. :wall:


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