# pine hides. sappy idea?



## sbullet (Apr 21, 2012)

So I went out into the woods in search of a nice hide for an arboreal, found a lot of cylindrical red pine bark shrouds.  Soaked em, baked em, and realized the sap is still present.

SAP.  Problem?  Is pine in general a problem?


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## Galapoheros (Apr 22, 2012)

No imo....


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## Anansis (Apr 22, 2012)

Personally, I never use any conifers in my enclosures.

http://www.pesticideinfo.org/Detail_Chemical.jsp?Rec_Id=PC37


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## SamuraiSid (Apr 22, 2012)

^ +1.
I did research a long long time ago on this subject for my P. imperator, so my info could be wrong, feel free to correct. How I remember it is that all conifers have tanins, and no amount baking, boiling or bleaching will remove them completely. Tanins are deadly to arachnids. If your looking for something natural, cork bark is the expensive and safe bet. If finding your own stuff is your preferance, I've heard that Oak sp. are good.


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## Kruggar (Apr 24, 2012)

I'm curious about cedar wood. Dolomedes tenebrosis seem to be in and around living and dead cedar trees all the time around cottages I've been to. I can't imagine that dried cedar driftwood would be a problem for wolfs or other spiders that are commonly exposed to them. Any comments on this?


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## Galapoheros (Apr 24, 2012)

Yeah that's why I don't scare from the cedar/pine issue.  I often find inverts in juniper/cedar trees that are very common around here and use weathered pieces now and then.  Some beetle around here eats the stuff which seems crazy to me.  What might be a good idea is to use a weathered piece.  If it's store-bought or newly cut, I'd put it outside in the sun and rain for a while, esp. maybe with a rain and let the outside thin layer bio-degrade.  With the internet, imo we have to be careful of claims, rumors and dis-info, some of it not intentional of course.  I remember when people were on the rampage against using a product called something like "Calci-sand" because somebody read that calcium is toxic to inverts, to their exo.  I live on calcium in the Texas hill country, it's what the bedrock is made of basically.  Tarantulas and centipedes, you name it live in it.  But people were really adamant about telling people that calci-sand was going to kill everybody's invert if they used it.  That's as I remember anyway, hope that's not dis-info haha.


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## Kruggar (Apr 25, 2012)

ah yes this makes total sense to me.. I can see wet sap (or even cured) being an issue in high humidity terrariums, but any wood should be fair game if its sap-less, dry, and been baked to kill mites etc. I know some people have problems with certain woods producing mold, but Cedar is one of the most mold resistant types of wood. It takes decades to decompose, hence why cedar rails can still be found in huge piles. I'm going to be looking for some really awesome, dired cedar root balls for my Dolomedes.


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## SamuraiSid (Apr 27, 2012)

SamuraiSid said:


> ^ +1.
> I did research a long long time ago on this subject for my P. imperator, so my info could be wrong, feel free to correct. How I remember it is that all conifers have tanins, and no amount baking, boiling or bleaching will remove them completely. Tanins are deadly to arachnids. If your looking for something natural, cork bark is the expensive and safe bet. If finding your own stuff is your preferance, I've heard that Oak sp. are good.


So after making a purchase of new T's I got some really nice pieces of pine bark. There was another t enthusiast who cured them, so my point is moot. Galapoheros makes a good point Maybe a solution of water and vinegar would help dissolve the sap? Then leave it out in the sun to fully dry...


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## ArachnidSentinl (Apr 28, 2012)

sbullet said:


> Soaked em, baked em, and realized the sap is still present.


Once, while living in the dorms in college, I brought in a piece of random drift wood from the beach for my T enclosure (that technically I wasn't supposed to have...). Of course, I wanted to bake the thing first. Someone was cooking a pizza in the floor's oven and I didn't want to wait, so I just shrugged and threw it in the microwave*. One sap-filled detonation later, I learned a valuable lesson about conifer wood. I tend to avoid it unless I know it's bone dry; the mess alone is worth looking for alternatives.


* Yeah, I know this was stupid, lol


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## Kruggar (Apr 28, 2012)

/\ lol sgiath! did you blow the door off?


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## SamuraiSid (Apr 28, 2012)

sgiath said:


> * Yeah, I know this was stupid, lol


they say I wise man learns from the mistakes of others. thanks for the tip


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## ArachnidSentinl (Apr 28, 2012)

Kruggar said:


> /\ lol sgiath! did you blow the door off?


lol, nah. Actually, the wood piece itself was largely intact, but all the sap inside began to boil and violently squirt out. It pretty much coated the inside of the microwave, then started to burn and smoke. On the upside, the whole kitchen smelled like pine for weeks.


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## Galapoheros (Apr 28, 2012)

Juniper/cedar root-balls can look pretty cool Kruggar like you said, I have a few.  I cleared a lot of cedar, took about a year to get rid of it all.  Now I pry up a ball now and then.  Lol and I also blew up a microwave at my parents house, putting off a plant collection when I was in school.  I tried to dry the collection in the microwave and it caught on fire.  My dad didn't like it but my mom thanked me later because she wanted a new one anyway.


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## Kruggar (Apr 28, 2012)

On my next journey to Northern Ontario cottage country I'm going to have to keep my eyes open for some good fallen tress.


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## jarmst4 (May 23, 2012)

I had asked the same question on dendroboard about pine branches, everyone was pretty adamant about it being toxic.


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## TweedMcQueen (May 23, 2012)

Everything I have read about pine and cedar indicates it being toxic for Ts, including the Tarantula Keepers Guide.  I don't have any personal experience with it, but the advice does come from a ton of experienced folk.  The point about finding inverts on it in nature is a good one but we also don't know that it doesn't shorten their life spans in nature.  Also, in nature, they would have the option to move somewhere else if it irritated them where as in captivity it might be the only option they have and always in close proximity.  Just something to think about.


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