# Beginner Fossorial?



## JarvyvV (Mar 10, 2013)

I am new to the hobby and i was wondering what is a good fossorial tarantula(burrowing) for a beginner. I want a fossorial because burrows fascinate me.


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## freedumbdclxvi (Mar 10, 2013)

do you have any T's currently?  If not, I would recommend a Brachypelma vagans or Brachypelma albopilosum.  Both of mine burrow quite a bit.  Once you have experience, you can dive into some of the Old World species like Haplopelmas or Phlogius.

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## syndicate (Mar 11, 2013)

I think if you do the proper research you could start with anyone you want really!Most of the Asian burrowing species can be quite defensive but when properly housed with deep substrate and room to burrow they will almost always retreat into there hole when disturbed.Starting with a spiderling will also give you time to get used to how they behave and there speed so that might be a good idea!
Some of my favorite fossorial species are:
_Lyrognathus crotalus_
_Haplopelma sp_."Bach ma"
_Selenocosmia arndsti_

Theres plenty to choose from!
-Chris

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## Solucki (Mar 11, 2013)

P. cancerides would be a good choice, underrated T IMO. Lots of attitude but still a new world so venom is relatively mild. As long as you house him properly, you'll have no problems.


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## poisoned (Mar 11, 2013)

Why does everyone recommend OW as beginner fossorial? Get started with something from genus Ephebopus, like E. murinus or E. cyanognathus


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## iPippin (Mar 11, 2013)

Brachypelma vagans! It created a great wall of china in its enclosure then it made it into a deep tunnel. It grows very fast and it eats like a pig.


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## poisoned (Mar 11, 2013)

Brachys don't obligately burrow. Actually, none of my 3 brachys currently does. B. albo is a sling, B. smithi is a juvie and B. epicureanum is an adult.


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## iPippin (Mar 11, 2013)

poisoned said:


> Brachys don't obligately burrow. Actually, none of my 3 brachys currently does. B. albo is a sling, B. smithi is a juvie and B. epicureanum is an adult.


Try making a hole on the soil in contact with the side of the container. They won't be able to resist that :3


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## poisoned (Mar 11, 2013)

iPippin said:


> Try making a hole on the soil in contact with the side of the container. They won't be able to resist that :3


I'm okay if they are outside in the open  My B. smithi burrowed in past, but stopped a molt or two ago. His burrow didn't look nearly as those that my obligate burrowers make (E. cyanognathus and H. lividum)


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## Boatman (Mar 11, 2013)

I have (2) B vagans ~3 in. 

One has an awesome tunnel around the perimeter of the enclosure!  

The other one just sits on top of the substrate. :-/


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## freedumbdclxvi (Mar 11, 2013)

poisoned said:


> Brachys don't obligately burrow. Actually, none of my 3 brachys currently does. B. albo is a sling, B. smithi is a juvie and B. epicureanum is an adult.


you are right - they do not burrow as readily as an Ephebopus or Haplo.  But setup the right way, they will.  I suggested them because I know they will burrow if allowed and because I didn't know the OP's experience.  With Brachys being generally docile and most fossorials generally being defensive, I went with Brachy.

edit:  but I am with you.  I prefer most of my Brachys out in the open.


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## Cydaea (Mar 11, 2013)

My B.vagans is a burrower too, she's always underground unless she's hungry. Currently she has sealed off her burrow for no reason (I don't think she's in premolt) and she hasn't come out in weeks. I can still see her through the glass so I  know she's okay.


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## spiderengineer (Mar 11, 2013)

Cydaea said:


> My B.vagans is a burrower too, she's always underground unless she's hungry. Currently she has sealed off her burrow for no reason (I don't think she's in premolt) and she hasn't come out in weeks. I can still see her through the glass so I  know she's okay.


Megaphobema robustum

new world more of a hair kicker and can prepare you for ow burrowers


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## Palespider (Mar 11, 2013)

I am not familiar with Lyrognathus sp, and info online seems to be scarce. Have any info to share? =)



syndicate said:


> I think if you do the proper research you could start with anyone you want really!Most of the Asian burrowing species can be quite defensive but when properly housed with deep substrate and room to burrow they will almost always retreat into there hole when disturbed.Starting with a spiderling will also give you time to get used to how they behave and there speed so that might be a good idea!
> Some of my favorite fossorial species are:
> _Lyrognathus crotalus_
> _Haplopelma sp_."Bach ma"
> ...




---------- Post added 03-11-2013 at 10:30 AM ----------

If you want a obligate burrower, most are OW species =| I would highly recommend a Hysterocrates gigas. Digs intricate burrows, and it's love for water is very fascinating. Also in my experience has a ravenous appetite and is a faster grower than most other fossorials.

I don't know about Ephebopus, for some reason a hole that shoots out urticating hairs frightens me... XD

Reactions: Funny 1


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## spiderengineer (Mar 11, 2013)

if you want and OW burrower I recommend Ceratogyrus darlingi hardy species, you can't beat the horn and from what I hear their venom is not that bad if you get bit.


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## poisoned (Mar 11, 2013)

Palespider said:


> I don't know about Ephebopus, for some reason a hole that shoots out urticating hairs frightens me... XD


They have U hairs on their pedipalps, but they use them very very rarely. They are fast and they usually just disappear deep into their burrows or go straight into threat posture.


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## Stan Schultz (Mar 11, 2013)

JarvyvV said:


> I am new to the hobby and i was wondering what is a good fossorial tarantula(burrowing) for a beginner. I want a fossorial because burrows fascinate me.


*DID YOU HEAR THAT? THAT WAS THE NEWBIE ALARM!*

There's nothing wrong with being a newbie as long as you do something about it. After 45 years of keeping tarantulas, I still consider myself a newbie. We can trace a tarantula's ancestry back over *HALF A BILLION YEARS*. They've had that long to develop and fine tune their lives and lifestyles. They're incredibly complex and detailed creatures. We're gonna be playing catch-up (that's the newbie part) for a long, LONG, *LONG* time!

The first thing you need to understand is the *KISS principle*, not to infer that you're stupid. Inexperienced, maybe. Stupid, I don't think so. As proof, you can speak, read, and write English (arguably one of the more difficult languages on Planet Earth), and use a computer just fine. But, I digress. As long as you supply the basic necessities of life for your captive tarantula, the less you incorporate into its cage and care regimen, the less there is to go tragically *haywire*. KISS, indeed!

The second thing you need to understand is that tarantulas are like no other creature you've ever kept or even heard about before. All your ingrained assumptions and prejudices don't apply, and may even be dangerous to them. They're neither tropical fish, reptiles, birds, nor hamsters, and you don't take care of them like any of those animals. One of the biggest problems with newbies is trying to get them to abandon all their prejudices and begin to look at the world from the vastly alien perspective of a huge, fuzzy spider.

*FASTEN YOUR SEAT BELT.
MAKE SURE YOUR SEAT BACK AND TRAY TABLE ARE SECURED IN THEIR UPRIGHT POSITIONS.
THIS IS GOING TO BE ONE H*** OF A RIDE!*​
Because tarantulas are so bizarre and unique, you have a lot of homework to do. To begin, you need to read the following webpages.

1) *Stan's Rant*. *ESPECIALLY, READ THE PART ABOUT NOT TRUSTING ANYTHING A PET SHOP TELLS YOU! AND ESPECIALLY, [Strike]READ[/Strike] STUDY THE FOUR RECOMMENDED BOOKS.*

2) *Myths...*. Read the entire webpage tree.

3) *Care and Husbandry of the Chilean Rose Tarantula*. If you don't have a Chilean rose you can safely ignore this one for now. Just remember that it's here for whenever you do get a rose. Or, you can read it out of curiosity. It contains a lot of hints applicable to other arid species.

4) *Substrate*. Because you need to know about this very basic, underlying part of a tarantula's existence.

5) *Growing Your Tarantula*. This is a global, game plan for caring for your newfound little buddy. You need to figure out where it is in the vast scheme of growth and development, then start taking care of it properly from that point onward.

6) If you can possibly spare the time, at least skim through the entire *Spiders, Calgary* website.


*RE: YOUR QUESTION:*

In the sciences and a few other hobbies, "fossorial" is used to distinguish those animals (usually mammals) that preferentially live most of their lives underground (e.g.., *mole rats*), as opposed to those that do so only occasionally, or never (e.g., *warthogs*, *elk*). In the hobby, "fossorial" is generally used synonymously with "terrestrial" because just about any tarantula that lives at or on the ground in nature also digs a burrow or lives under a rock or log. When the term became fashionable in the sciences several years ago, the arachnoculture hobby immediately grabbed it is as a new, fashionable buzzword, and we've not been able to rid ourselves of it since.

While most tarantulas are terrestrial/fossorial in nature, most don't dig burrows once they're older than the *baby* stage in captivity. Although lots of people have hazarded guesses as to why, none of them are really convincing, and we have no idea how to "correct" the situation.

There are at least two kinds of tarantulas that are considered "obligate burrowers:" King baboons (_Pelenobius muticus_) and cobalt blues (_Haplopelma lividum_). You can find a lot of information about either of these by performing the appropriate searches. (See the <Search> and <Advanced Search> buttons towards the upper right.) And, virtually every tarantula book discusses either one or both species. The four books mentioned in *Stan's Rant* are at least as good as any others on the market.

There is, however, fine print at the bottom of the contract:

1) Both species are Old World, meaning that they won't make good hand pets.

2) Both species have a potent venom.

  a) A bite by _Haplopelma lividum_ won't kill you, but you may wish you were dead for a day or so. *JUST KIDDING*! It's not all that bad, but you definitely won't be going to school or work for a few days!

  b) A bite by _Pelenobius muticus_ is likely to land you in the hospital for a day or two. While you won't die, you may think you're about to, or wish you would. *AND, I'M NOT KIDDING ABOUT THIS ONE*!

3) I would *STRONGLY URGE* you *NOT* to get _Pelenobius muticus_ if you're under 18 years of age and have not had other tarantulas for several years first. There are those who might give the same advice about _Haplopelma lividum_. You don't need the grief. The hobby doesn't need the bad P.R. I don't need your parents on my back!

Hope this helps a little. Best of luck. Make sure your health insurance is paid up!


Enjoy your little 8-legged, troglodytes!

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## JarvyvV (Mar 11, 2013)

*Thanks* for all the info and suggestions.
The only thing that don't understand after basic research is keeping the right humidity and i feel like that is a important aspect for a obligated burrower.


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## spiderengineer (Mar 11, 2013)

JarvyvV said:


> *Thanks* for all the info and suggestions.
> The only thing that don't understand after basic research is keeping the right humidity and i feel like that is a important aspect for a obligated burrower.


humidity is one of those things that will vary with who you are talking to. some have kept humid species drier and just provide water and they have no problems. don't get to work up on humidity. just see it as general parameters. for instance I keep alot of haplopelmas. but I am not wetting the sub every day in fact I usually wet the sub every few months or when I think it has gotten to dry. I have a digital reader, but I hardly use it, beside not all species that burrow are humid species like c darlingi I keep mine dry and they all burrow and two just molted a week ago and I fed them last night and all is well.


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## syndicate (Mar 11, 2013)

JarvyvV said:


> The only thing that don't understand after basic research is keeping the right humidity and i feel like that is a important aspect for a obligated burrower.


Well it depends on what species you are keeping but for example you will want to keep all tropical/rain forest species of tarantulas on moist substrate.Some can and will endure dry periods in the wild but they are not necessary..I use containers like this:





As you can see there are holes melted along the top for ventilation and the bottom for drainage.About once a year I will flood out all my burrowing tanks and the water easily will drain right from these holes.You can even completely submerge the spider in water while flooding and it will not harm your tarantula.
You can buy the ones above from the container store or even find nice containers to use at your local grocery store or Walmart.
Oh also worth checking here is an excellent article (in German sorry!) that shows great photos on setting up one of these _Haplopelma_ style tanks!
Click me!
Hope this helps!
-Chris

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## Stan Schultz (Mar 12, 2013)

JarvyvV said:


> *Thanks* for all the info and suggestions.
> The only thing that don't understand after basic research is keeping the right humidity and i feel like that is a important aspect for a obligated burrower.


No. Humidity is one of the most misunderstood topics in tarantula care. Read *Humidity...* It has its place, but as with most things about tarantulas, not quite the way you'd first expect.

Marguerite and I have kept many king baboons (_Pelenobius muticus_) and cobalt blues (_Haplopelma lividum_) over the years (we'd get in babies and sell them over a year or more as they grew), and we always kept them as burrowers in effectively arid cages.

King baboons (_Pelenobius muticus_) come from the veldts of Africa: hot, dry prairie type land with seasonal rainy periods.

Cobalt blues (_Haplopelma lividum_) come from Thailand, but they are not necessarily rain forest tarantulas. Jan-Philipp Samadi had published a webpage, *Spinnen in der Natur: Thailand - English*, on the Internet showing their habitat, but it's been removed. He has indicated in a personal E-mail that a better version is in progress and will be posted shortly.

Basically, the "right humidity" is relatively dry. When we were keeping them we did little to control humidity directly. Virtually all our tarantula cages were covered with plastic food wrap, but that was because Calgary, Alberta, Canada is in the rain shadow of the Canadian Rocky Mountains and suffers from "humidity so low out there it could suck water out of a rock!" (Actual phrase used by a weather forecaster at a local TV station.) Even for desert species that was too dry, especially in winter. Most other places in the world wouldn't require that practice.

So, the substrate was kept mostly dry, but every week or two I would pour a third or half cup of room temperature tap water down the burrows. (We gave up trying to keep water dishes with them. They merely buried them during their earth moving projects.) This would dampen the substrate around them for a few hours to a day or so at a time.

I have never, ever used a hygrometer in any of my cages. There's no need. Watch the tarantula. *It'll tell you when it's to dry.*


Enjoy your little 8-legged hygrometer!

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## Marijan2 (Mar 12, 2013)

Pikaia said:


> ...
> Marguerite and I have kept many king baboons (_Pelenobius muticus_) and cobalt blues (_Haplopelma lividum_) over the years (we'd get in babies and sell them over a year or more as they grew), and we always kept them as burrowers in effectively arid cages.
> ...


Stan, it's Pelinobius, not Pelenobius


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## advan (Mar 12, 2013)

Pikaia said:


> No. Humidity is one of the most misunderstood topics in tarantula care. Read *Humidity...* It has its place, but as with most things about tarantulas, not quite the way you'd first expect.
> 
> Marguerite and I have kept many king baboons (_Pelenobius muticus_) and cobalt blues (_Haplopelma lividum_) over the years (we'd get in babies and sell them over a year or more as they grew), and we always kept them as burrowers in effectively arid cages.


Were you ever successful at breeding _Haplopelma_ in these arid conditions? That would be a good sign your spiders are actually thriving and not just surviving. 

OP: If you're interested in an OW burrower(or _Ephebopus_), follow syndicate's advice.

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## Stan Schultz (Mar 13, 2013)

Marijan2 said:


> Stan, it's Pelinobius, not Pelenobius



!@#$%^! tpyos! And, I commonly use copy-and-paste on difficult or repetitive character strings, so once I screw up, it goes on forever. 

Sorry. My bad. Sometimes I can be such a dunce!

:wall:


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