# New stuff from the local reptile show!



## robc (Jun 15, 2009)

We got a few new pets from our local reptile show. Picked up a 5.5" female N.chromatus, a baby bearded dragon (my sons) and a 6" female leopard gecko (my wifes). We could use some advice on the lizards - being new to them. We received some basic care instructions but would love some more info from more experienced keepers. Thanks!

*Here's a little video of all three:*

[YOUTUBE]ljAKGQuHbnY[/YOUTUBE]


*Here's a pic of the female N.chromatus (judging by the sexing pic below):*














*Here's some pics of the baby bearded dragon:*














*Here's some pics of the leopard gecko:*


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## Thompson08 (Jun 15, 2009)

Very nice rob! You can house leapord gecko with newspaper substrate, keep it moist. Feed them mealworms, give them a calcium dish. And give them atleast two hides. They poop a lot, congrats!


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## billopelma (Jun 15, 2009)

That N. chromatus ventral pic is a "textbook" male IMHO...

Bill


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## Thompson08 (Jun 15, 2009)

I'd say it is female.


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## Satellite Rob (Jun 15, 2009)

I dont where thay keep coming up with these color morph.But theres always 
something new.


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## Dutcharachno (Jun 15, 2009)

Thompson08 i think you give rob wrong information about the leopardgecko, you shouldnt keep these moist they are dessert animals , and mealworms are low nutrition its better to feed it crickits,dubia's,grasshoppers and they really like waxworms but dont give it to much of those cause theyre verry fat.


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## DansDragons (Jun 15, 2009)

mealworms are actually a great staple for leopard geckos. most large scale breeders feed them exclusively. however, variety is best 

leos are a desert reptile, but they do need moderate humidity. easiest way to provide them with humidity is a "humid hide" which is just a container filled halfway with moist eco earth, paper towel or moss. with a hole for access of course.


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## Diablo1984 (Jun 15, 2009)

Dutcharachno said:


> Thompson08 i think you give rob wrong information about the leopardgecko, you shouldnt keep these moist they are dessert animals , and mealworms are low nutrition its better to feed it crickits,dubia's,grasshoppers and they really like waxworms but dont give it to much of those cause theyre verry fat.


I agree!

I used to breed these leo's for a couple of years. With much succes i can say!
Dont keep them moist. The are dessert animals indeed.
Give them a moist container where the can lay eggs ect.
Give them alternate food like Dutcharachno say!


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## robc (Jun 15, 2009)

Satellite Rob said:


> I dont where thay keep coming up with these color morph.But theres always
> something new.


They are awesome looking!!!


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## robc (Jun 15, 2009)

DansDragons said:


> mealworms are actually a great staple for leopard geckos. most large scale breeders feed them exclusively. however, variety is best
> 
> leos are a desert reptile, but they do need moderate humidity. easiest way to provide them with humidity is a "humid hide" which is just a container filled halfway with moist eco earth, paper towel or moss. with a hole for access of course.


Thanks dan!!!


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## robc (Jun 15, 2009)

billopelma said:


> That N. chromatus ventral pic is a "textbook" male IMHO...
> 
> Bill


I see both traits LOL.....


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## Dutcharachno (Jun 15, 2009)

really Meal worms are not recommended as a staple in the diet of leopard gecko's.  If they are used, they should be considered a very occasional snack or treat as the meal worm shell (chitin) is hard for a gecko to digest,  and are poor in any nutritional value and the calcium/fosfor ratio is verry bad.


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## ReMoVeR (Jun 15, 2009)

robc said:


> I see both traits LOL.....


So..you got yourself a shemale!!!  :clap:  :clap:  :?  

//Tiago


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## DansDragons (Jun 15, 2009)

if this is true, tell me why most large scale breeders have their leopard geckos on a mealworm staple? i knew a guy a few years ago that fed nothing but mealworms and his geckos where the healthiest i have ever seen in person.



Dutcharachno said:


> really Meal worms are not recommended as a staple in the diet of leopard gecko's.  If they are used, they should be considered a very occasional snack or treat as the meal worm shell (chitin) is hard for a gecko to digest,  and are poor in any nutritional value and the calcium/fosfor ratio is verry bad.


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## Thompson08 (Jun 15, 2009)

DansDragons said:


> if this is true, tell me why most large scale breeders have their leopard geckos on a mealworm staple? i knew a guy a few years ago that fed nothing but mealworms and his geckos where the healthiest i have ever seen in person.


I agree mealworms are a good feeder for reptiles...


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## Thompson08 (Jun 15, 2009)

Dutcharachno said:


> Thompson08 i think you give rob wrong information about the leopardgecko, you shouldnt keep these moist they are dessert animals , and mealworms are low nutrition its better to feed it crickits,dubia's,grasshoppers and they really like waxworms but dont give it to much of those cause theyre verry fat.


Thank explain to me why most care sheets say to provide moist moss or substrate for the gecko to properly shed?


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## Diablo1984 (Jun 15, 2009)

Thompson08 said:


> Thank explain to me why most care sheets say to provide moist moss or substrate for the gecko to properly shed?


you just need a place moist where the gecko's can lay ther eggs ect.
Just a, how do you say in englisch ? The plastic box where you get your ice-cream in.


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## Diablo1984 (Jun 15, 2009)

DansDragons said:


> if this is true, tell me why most large scale breeders have their leopard geckos on a mealworm staple? i knew a guy a few years ago that fed nothing but mealworms and his geckos where the healthiest i have ever seen in person.


I Do not have that experience. I think meal worms are just a snack for the leo.


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## codykrr (Jun 15, 2009)

billopelma said:


> That N. chromatus ventral pic is a "textbook" male IMHO...
> 
> Bill


man...thats female 100% sure, garunteed. there is absolutly no male to that!


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## robc (Jun 15, 2009)

codykrr said:


> man...thats female 100% sure, garunteed. there is absolutly no male to that!


I agree.....didn't want to start a war.....one thing tht is funny is the booklungs are a bit foward but that furrow screams *"give me a emboli"* LOL


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## billopelma (Jun 15, 2009)

The patch of epiandrous fusilae (sp?) on that thing is *really* obvious, and the gonopore is staring you in the face. What's female about it? 
I'd bet $'s on that being male, that guy will probably mature on the next molt. You'll like him, they can easily hit 7".  


Bill


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## robc (Jun 16, 2009)

billopelma said:


> The patch of epiandrous fusilae (sp?) on that thing is *really* obvious, and the gonopore is staring you in the face. What's female about it?
> I'd bet $'s on that being male, that guy will probably mature on the next molt. You'll like him, they can easily hit 7".
> 
> 
> Bill


I do see male....the furrow is traight across....but we will see....doesn't matter eithetr way....if he matures I will get a Female....some T's I can ventral sex some I can't LOL


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## Fran (Jun 16, 2009)

I dont thing thats "the patch" you see in the males, but difference in colours.
I have seen that in quite many females.

I think its a female...If you can and have time rob, take a picture
not that close to see the whole thing, for some reason up close can confuse me sometimes, specially in this genus.


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## Dutcharachno (Jun 16, 2009)

DansDragons said:


> if this is true, tell me why most large scale breeders have their leopard geckos on a mealworm staple? i knew a guy a few years ago that fed nothing but mealworms and his geckos where the healthiest i have ever seen in person.


Somehow, the idea that Leopard Geckos can be maintained solely on a diet of mealworms has come into vogue. Sadly, this is not the case. Or at least it would be a real challenge to do so long term. I'm sure several readers are thinking "but I've kept mine that way", maybe so. But have you done this for several generations or kept one gecko for over twenty years? There's a big difference between short-term maintenance of a year or so and long-term maintenance with heavy reproduction.
The simple truth is this: Mealworms have an incredibly bad balance ratio of calcium to phosphorus. Providing an excessive amount of phosphorous in the diet can cause severe problems with calcium adsorption.


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## DansDragons (Jun 16, 2009)

uh..yeah.

the breeder(and many others) i mentioned has been feeding his geckos mealworms for 10+ years..NO PROBLEMS, and the geckos are super healthy and breed like crazy for him. there is absolutely nothing wrong with mealworms as a staple for leos, i would throw in few roaches occasionally..but if someone was to feed their leo mealworms for the next 20 years i guarantee it would live a happy healthy life 

maybe you guys follow a different rule in the netherlands..who knows, but mealworms are a safe and healthy food for leos, assuming they are properly gutloaded and dusted in calcium & vitamins before feeding.





Dutcharachno said:


> Somehow, the idea that Leopard Geckos can be maintained solely on a diet of mealworms has come into vogue. Sadly, this is not the case. Or at least it would be a real challenge to do so long term. I'm sure several readers are thinking "but I've kept mine that way", maybe so. But have you done this for several generations or kept one gecko for over twenty years? There's a big difference between short-term maintenance of a year or so and long-term maintenance with heavy reproduction.
> The simple truth is this: Mealworms have an incredibly bad balance ratio of calcium to phosphorus. Providing an excessive amount of phosphorous in the diet can cause severe problems with calcium adsorption.


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## Satellite Rob (Jun 16, 2009)

It's aways a good to rotate what you feed them.Like mealworms,crickets and roaches.Thay will also eat leafy greans.Like romaine lettuce and parsley.


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## Diablo1984 (Jun 16, 2009)

Dutcharachno said:


> Somehow, the idea that Leopard Geckos can be maintained solely on a diet of mealworms has come into vogue. Sadly, this is not the case. Or at least it would be a real challenge to do so long term. I'm sure several readers are thinking "but I've kept mine that way", maybe so. But have you done this for several generations or kept one gecko for over twenty years? There's a big difference between short-term maintenance of a year or so and long-term maintenance with heavy reproduction.
> The simple truth is this: Mealworms have an incredibly bad balance ratio of calcium to phosphorus. Providing an excessive amount of phosphorous in the diet can cause severe problems with calcium adsorption.


I totally agree with Dutcharachno. It's difficult for me to explain in englisch.
But i think Dutcharachno did a good job!  
I know that a lot of breeders will feed only mealworms, But i think that's because that is the cheapest solution. But it's far from what the best for the animal. in my opinion!


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## robc (Jun 16, 2009)

I appreciate all the advice & PM's everyone has given me on thes new adittions (Gecko & Beardie)....it is very much appreciated!!:clap: :clap: :clap: :worship:


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## Kris-wIth-a-K (Jun 16, 2009)

Hey Rob, for some great info I would personally recommend a friend also named Rob,  user name Gecko Keeper here on AB, not saying anyone else here is wrong btw.  He will basically tell you everything you want to know, the do's and don't, pros and cons of the geckos/lizard world, food, substrate, color morphs and so on. His collection is impressive....

Kris


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## sean-820 (Jun 16, 2009)

For my bearded dragon, i use simple outdoors carpet that is a fairly fine mat. It cost me like 10$ for 3 sheets to rotate in a 65 gallon. For calcium powder i use repti cal in a pink containor. I would also avoid any sand as even calcium sand can lead to impactation (digest  sand and gets clogged in lizard- could lead to death). Meal worms are good now, but when the beardie grows i would switch to super worms as they are larger and have a smaller exoskeleton.


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## sean-820 (Jun 16, 2009)

Thompson08 said:


> Thank explain to me why most care sheets say to provide moist moss or substrate for the gecko to properly shed?


leos are dessert animals so keep it dry, but use a margrine containor os somethign with an opening that it can go in where it is moist. Just cut an opening in an appropriate sized deli cup and ann some peat. Keep the lid on and in theis contaionor moist.


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## robc (Jun 16, 2009)

brachy.P said:


> Hey Rob, for some great info I would personally recommend a friend also named Rob,  user name Gecko Keeper here on AB, not saying anyone else here is wrong btw.  He will basically tell you everything you want to know, the do's and don't, pros and cons of the geckos/lizard world, food, substrate, color morphs and so on. His collection is impressive....
> 
> Kris


He actualy PMED me some info!!


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## Morrigan (Jun 17, 2009)

*Pretty little beardie*

That is a cutie.
The bearded dragon is an omnivore and should have veggies BEFORE any other food early in the day when it is hungry to encourage a nice varied diet.  Mine has done well on lots of collard greens, thin sliced (thorns removed!) tender prickly pear pads and prickly pear flowers for the most part, with a few thawed ( bean carrot corn) mixed frozen veggies for variety. Then in the afternoon, bug city, all it will eat... Be really careful with wild caught bugs though as many beetles are toxic ( Fireflys - anything that glows, boxelders and many more). There are also some commercial diets, but don't rely on those exclusively. Most of the more successful larger breeders have good care info on their websites.  Correct UVA AND UVB light is also important for proper calcium useage and just supplementing is NOT enough for beardies... 

Mine was a 4 inch rescue that was so messed up when I got him I thought he was dead, but I soaked him overnight in 85 degree F pedialyte and he recovered...  He is now a robust and lively 13 inches...


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## Thompson08 (Jun 17, 2009)

sean-820 said:


> leos are dessert animals so keep it dry, but use a margrine containor os somethign with an opening that it can go in where it is moist. Just cut an opening in an appropriate sized deli cup and ann some peat. Keep the lid on and in theis contaionor moist.


Thanks  

Hey rob how's the leopard gecko? are they fun to keep, I"m thinking about getting one myself.


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## Dave (Jun 17, 2009)

sean-820 said:


> For my bearded dragon, i use simple outdoors carpet that is a fairly fine mat. It cost me like 10$ for 3 sheets to rotate in a 65 gallon. For calcium powder i use repti cal in a pink containor. I would also avoid any sand as even calcium sand can lead to impactation (digest  sand and gets clogged in lizard- could lead to death). Meal worms are good now, but when the beardie grows i would switch to super worms as they are larger and have a smaller exoskeleton.


Great info!
Also, you can feed them greens and veggies, roaches and crickets, and commercial BD food. A full spectrum lighting is really important, or better yet, exposure to natural sunlight for a while everyday is great. Just don't fry 'em! Make sure she can move in and out of the sunlight. You don't need a water bowl if you bathe her once a week, believe it or not! She'll get most of her moisture from the food. At this age it's crucial that you meet all the nutritional (including sunlight) requirements to avoid health problems. When you feed her, make sure the food is small enough to swallow (the length from the nostril to the eye is a good rule of thumb) because they can go paralyzed in the back legs from swallowing food too big! BD's will mature in less than a year, sexually mature at 18 months or so if cared for correctly. Also, there is a very deadly fungus they can get that is linked to antibiotics. It starts in the stomach when good bacteria is wiped out from the antibiotics and eventually spreads to the skin in latter stages. It's highly contagious to other dragons! The point of saying this is not to introduce other dragons in her cage without quarantining them for as long as possible. There's currently no cure and it's spread through the feces, so keep the cage clean. 
Hope this helps! If you need any more info or have questions, Rob, feel free to pm me, or better yet, sign up to my brand new reptile forum! I have the link as my signature.
-Dave


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## sean-820 (Jun 19, 2009)

Dave said:


> Great info!
> Also, you can feed them greens and veggies, roaches and crickets, and commercial BD food. A full spectrum lighting is really important,*Yes you will need a uvb- i use 10.0 zoomed and a  zoomed heatbulb- i have a 150W on my tank, but thats for an adult.* or better yet, exposure to natural sunlight *Probably the best in addition to a tank source. Plastic/glass will filter out uvb light so you can't have any of those plastic cover over the tubes i nthe tank*for a while everyday is great. Just don't fry 'em! Make sure she can move in and out of the sunlight. You don't need a water bowl if you bathe her once a week* I would keep a water bowl b/c i know mine uses it. Slightly warm baths are good just watch them. Baths are good if they seem constipated as they will often crapduring a bath. I just add a sponge and water up to about the neck then they can prop up off the sponge out of the water.*, believe it or not! She'll get most of her moisture from the food. At this age it's crucial that you meet all the nutritional (including sunlight) requirements to avoid health problems. When you feed her, make sure the food is small enough to swallow (the length from the nostril to the eye is a good rule of thumb) because they can go paralyzed in the back legs from swallowing food too big! BD's will mature in less than a year, sexually mature at 18 months or so if cared for correctly. * I agree that that little guy wont be little for to long[/I]*Also, there is a very deadly fungus they can get that is linked to antibiotics. It starts in the stomach when good bacteria is wiped out from the antibiotics and eventually spreads to the skin in latter stages. It's highly contagious to other dragons! The point of saying this is not to introduce other dragons in her cage without quarantining them for as long as possible. There's currently no cure and it's spread through the feces, so keep the cage clean.
> Hope this helps! If you need any more info or have questions, Rob, feel free to pm me, or better yet, sign up to my brand new reptile forum! I have the link as my signature.
> -Dave


ccccccccccccccccccccc


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## robc (Jul 26, 2009)

billopelma said:


> That N. chromatus ventral pic is a "textbook" male IMHO...
> 
> Bill


Nope!! She just molted and she's definately a female!













Might have to review your "textbook" again...


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## robc (Jul 26, 2009)

billopelma said:


> The patch of epiandrous fusilae (sp?) on that thing is *really* obvious, and the gonopore is staring you in the face. What's female about it?
> I'd bet $'s on that being male, that guy will probably mature on the next molt. You'll like him, they can easily hit 7".
> 
> 
> Bill


I'll take your bet...check out the pics:


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## billopelma (Jul 27, 2009)

I obviously stand corrected, though I still think the ventral shot _looks_ male. That's the danger of sexing from photo's...

This is one reference I was comparing to, a male I had a while back...








and it was very certainly male...









Bill


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## jbm150 (Jul 27, 2009)

Wow, I'da bet that was male too.  The dark patch above the furrow made it look SO male.  Is it that the furrow was just a straight line, rather than having a little hitch to it?


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