# Pure black pall python?



## gambite

I see plenty of albino ball pythons at the expos, amidst all the other crazy color morphs, but are there any that are completely black? I have seen some with more black than any other color, but they still had the characteristic python markings. Are black BP's possible?


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## whitewolf

Maybe a morph. 

I did some light reading after John Apples pink/albino/white scorpions whatever you want to call it and learned the lack of Melanin causes albinism while the over abundance of it causes black. I started wondering if this is how we make color morphs. Parents that either have or don't have it and it throws a fluke. Never found the question to my answer if it is possible that inverts have it. Stumbled on some documents that say yes and some that say no.

http://www.biology-online.org/dictionary/Melanin


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## Kloster

whitewolf said:


> Maybe a morph.
> 
> I did some light reading after John Apples pink/albino/white scorpions whatever you want to call it and learned the lack of Melanin causes albinism while the over abundance of it causes black. I started wondering if this is how we make color morphs. Parents that either have or don't have it and it throws a fluke. Never found the question to my answer if it is possible that inverts have it. Stumbled on some documents that say yes and some that say no.
> 
> http://www.biology-online.org/dictionary/Melanin


Im pretty sure this is how part of it works.

Then theres the whole dominant co-dominant and the other kind of gene. Which is how you get hypo, trans, etc.

Im sure a beardie or leo breeder could tell you what theyre all about.

All I really know is that Beardie's mutations have been played around with for a bit now and created leatherbacks which have flat instead of spiky scales in their backs and also silkbacks which i have never touched but I think their scales are super weird with those, I personally dont like them, they remind me of that species of cat thats bald. Its like something is missing in them.


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## whitewolf

Kloster said:


> Im sure a beardie or leo breeder could tell you what theyre all about.
> 
> All I really know is that Beardie's mutations have been played around with for a bit now and created leatherbacks which have flat instead of spiky scales in their backs and also silkbacks which i have never touched but I think their scales are super weird with those, I personally dont like them, they remind me of that species of cat thats bald. Its like something is missing in them.


LOL.
I keep meaning to ask how the bright hypos came about maybe next show I wont forget to ask. I know there is a lot to it but just neat that there are so many colors now.


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## Steven Valys

There are a few that are almost all black.
http://www.newenglandreptile.com/nerd/index.php/ball-pythons/nerd-s-ball-python-collection.html


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## whitewolf

Steven Valys said:


> There are a few that are almost all black.
> http://www.newenglandreptile.com/nerd/index.php/ball-pythons/nerd-s-ball-python-collection.html


wow I was wondering what that white snake with blue eyes was at the show was. Guy was to busy to ask but it was neat. That and the Piebald had my attention and I am not a big boa fan. :drool:


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## Jmugleston

All black animals occur in some species, but I've yet to see it in ball pythons. If you google hypermelanism (excess melanin) you can see examples of some species. In Australia some keepers have blue tongue skinks with this mutation.


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## jayefbe

Yes there is an all-black ball python.  It is the super form (homozygous) of a cinnamon or black pastel.  Breed two of those together (can even mix and match) and each egg has a 25% chance of being the all black super form.


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## Sunset

there is a ball python out there that's all black. Im not sure what they call it.


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## jayefbe

offroad537 said:


> there is a ball python out there that's all black. Im not sure what they call it.


Generally it's referred to as a super black pastel or super cinnamon since it is the super form (homozygous form) of either of those morphs.


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## aracnophiliac

whitewolf said:


> wow I was wondering what that white snake with blue eyes was at the show was. Guy was to busy to ask but it was neat. That and the Piebald had my attention and I am not a big boa fan. :drool:


What a great site thank you for posting


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## Lucas339

super black pastels and super cinnys look black as hatchlings but fade to dark brown as they age.


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## JTC5150

Try looking up Axanthic. I think that is what they are called.


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## Lucas339

axanthic aren't all black.  they are black and gray and they too fade to brown over time.  some of the better lines fade less.


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## Jmugleston

jayefbe said:


> Yes there is an all-black ball python.  It is the super form (homozygous) of a cinnamon or black pastel.  Breed two of those together (can even mix and match) and each egg has a 25% chance of being the all black super form.


Good to know. I don't keep ball pythons anymore so I'm out of the loop a bit. Those are interesting.


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## Thoth

N.E.R.D. used to have on their website a primer on genetics, with emphasis on snake alleles.


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## jayefbe

ball python genetics are very simple.  All common base morphs are single genes and are either recessive or co-dominant.  Basic high school bio punnett square stuff.


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## Teal

whitewolf said:


> wow I was wondering what that white snake with blue eyes was at the show was. Guy was to busy to ask but it was neat. That and the Piebald had my attention and I am not a big boa fan. :drool:


*

Blue-Eyed Leucistics are gorgeous, aren't they? The last reptile show I went to, a guy was selling two... for about $2,000 each lol. Very lovely! Piebalds are my favourite though 

*


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## Mack&Cass

Teal said:


> *
> 
> Blue-Eyed Leucistics are gorgeous, aren't they? The last reptile show I went to, a guy was selling two... for about $2,000 each lol. Very lovely! Piebalds are my favourite though
> 
> *


There's a Canadian Reptiles Site and someone was selling blue eyed leuc BURMESE pythons...you don't even want to know how much they were...but I will tell you anway - $20,000.00 - that makes a BEL ball look pretty darn cheap, I'd say.

At the last show we went to (Canadian Reptile Breeders Expo) there was a pied, but instead of it being white/regular, it was white/pinstripe...that snake had a price tag of $10,000.00. I love pieds, and I'm really glad that they're dropping in price (the regular ones anyway) 

As far as black balls go, I think they're beautiful, and if you guys want to see an AMAZING ball python, google Panda Piebald Ball Python...that thing is my desktop background on both my personal and work computer. It's one of the most beautiful ball morphs I've ever seen.

Cassandra


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## Teal

*There's a ball python for sale on the link that was posted in this thread that with an asking price of $20,000.. I just couldn't do it! 

But a blue eyed leucie Burm would be f'ing AMAZING !!

For the Panda piebald.. are you talkin this..







or






Those this one is listed as an Axanthic piebald

Now I am researching morphs again LOL *


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## Mack&Cass

Teal said:


> *There's a ball python for sale on the link that was posted in this thread that with an asking price of $20,000.. I just couldn't do it!
> 
> But a blue eyed leucie Burm would be f'ing AMAZING !!
> 
> For the Panda piebald.. are you talkin this..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those this one is listed as an Axanthic piebald
> 
> Now I am researching morphs again LOL *


It's the first one...the second one is the Axanthic....but both are gorgeous

Cass


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## Teal

*Yeah, I would take either lol

I can't believe all the cool morphs that have shown up since the last time I really looked into it lol *


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## samatwwe

whitewolf said:


> wow I was wondering what that white snake with blue eyes was at the show was. Guy was to busy to ask but it was neat. That and the Piebald had my attention and I am not a big boa fan. :drool:


I think youre refferring to the blue eyed lucy?


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## Lucas339

jayefbe said:


> ball python genetics are very simple.  All common base morphs are single genes and are either recessive or co-dominant.  Basic high school bio punnett square stuff.


thats funny.  use your simple HS genetics to figure out the Platium and higgen gene woma stuff.


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## jayefbe

Lucas339 said:


> thats funny.  use your simple HS genetics to figure out the Platium and higgen gene woma stuff.


HG Woma is a misnomer.  There is no hidden gene.  It's a completely different gene from the regular woma.  If you've seen enough examples of both the HG woma and the regular woma, it's pretty obvious that they are just different morphs that unfortunately were given a name that confused the issue.

The platinum is likely another gene that is exhibited when in conjunction with a lesser (or other blue eyed leucistic genes).  It's still a single gene inherited in a simple Mendelian manner.  In this case, it is similar to a recessive gene.  The complication comes in that not enough people had done the breedings to prove it.


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## whitewolf

Teal said:


> *
> 
> Blue-Eyed Leucistics are gorgeous, aren't they? The last reptile show I went to, a guy was selling two... for about $2,000 each lol. Very lovely! Piebalds are my favourite though
> 
> *


This one was all white and had blue eyes. I couldn't stop walking by the table just to get a peak at it. It was one of the prettiest snakes I had ever seen. Wow. 2,000. He wanted $1,100 for this one but I never got a chance to talk to him. He had so many neat things they stayed pretty busy.

I keep thinking man I have to save up and get one but logic kicks in and says, if you're bad about not handling King and Rat snakes why get something that gets the size and power they do. Then I remember why I avoid the boa and python thing.  I just don't see myself keeping it tamed down.

I had no idea there were so many morphs I spotted 3 off the site I really liked. Now can someone dwarf one for me. LOL. Not much just 4-6' max.


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## jayefbe

Whitewolf - Ball pythons are probably the calmest snakes you could ever find.  Colubrids are generally very active when being held.  Ball pythons will literally just sit there.  I've never been bitten by a ball python and I've been keeping pythons for over 12 years.  In fact, burmese pythons, ball pythons and red-tail boas (Colombians) are generally extremely docile snakes.  If I kept snakes primarily for handling purposes, I'd choose a ball python or red-tail boa over any other snake.

Oh yeah, ball pythons rarely get bigger than 4 feet.  I keep my biggest females in a 41qt sterilite box rack, if that gives you an idea of their size.


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## whitewolf

PM sent got my interest now. lol.

Edit. Thanks Jayebe for all the info. I was always reading the wrong python info. Maybe a ball is in my future.


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## Sunset

there is still a black ball python out there, i saw it on snake bites hes the only one who has one.


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## Lucas339

the all black morph is becoming common these days.  BHB isn't the only one with them.


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## Teal

whitewolf said:


> This one was all white and had blue eyes.


*

Yup, that's a blue eyed lucy for ya! lol there are also black eyed lucys, if you looked at the colour site.

I keep wanting to save up for a piebald.. until I realize, I have A LOT of things higher up on my list that cost the same.. or even less! LOL *


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## DireWolf0384

Look what I found! 





An Albino Snapping Turtle

I want on of these too! An F1 Mclaren!


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## GiantVinegaroon

Steven Valys said:


> There are a few that are almost all black.
> http://www.newenglandreptile.com/nerd/index.php/ball-pythons/nerd-s-ball-python-collection.html


You know NERD makes hybrids?  I don't trust anyone who hybridizes snakes.


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## jayefbe

ScottySalticid said:


> You know NERD makes hybrids?  I don't trust anyone who hybridizes snakes.


NERD does make hybrids, which I also am in huge disagreement with.  But when it comes to ball pythons, they are the original breeder of a significant portion of the base morphs and combo morphs.  They have combo morphs over there that nobody else even knows how to make.  I've heard stories about Kevin hatching things out and not even knowing what genes when into a snake because he's working with so many genes at once.  He may make hybrids, but you gotta acknowledge that Kevin McCurley almost single-handedly start the whole ball python craze.


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## bugmankeith

WOW, I knew corn snakes had different morphs, but never knew ball pythons had so many now! And as far as animals that could be black (melanistic), I know squirrels are one, as I have some here that are black instead of gray.


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## Lucas339

jayefbe said:


> NERD does make hybrids, which I also am in huge disagreement with.  But when it comes to ball pythons, they are the original breeder of a significant portion of the base morphs and combo morphs.  They have combo morphs over there that nobody else even knows how to make.  I've heard stories about Kevin hatching things out and not even knowing what genes when into a snake because he's working with so many genes at once.  He may make hybrids, but you gotta acknowledge that Kevin McCurley almost single-handedly start the whole ball python craze.


agreed....


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## Jmugleston

jayefbe said:


> NERD does make hybrids, which I also am in huge disagreement with.  But when it comes to ball pythons, they are the original breeder of a significant portion of the base morphs and combo morphs.  They have combo morphs over there that nobody else even knows how to make.  I've heard stories about Kevin hatching things out and not even knowing what genes when into a snake because he's working with so many genes at once.  He may make hybrids, but you gotta acknowledge that Kevin McCurley almost *single-handedly* start the whole ball python craze.


I'd disagree with the *singe-handedly* part. They played a major role yes. They have created numerous morph combos as well. But to say the did it almost by themselves seems a bit unfair. There were many and continues to be many working with other morph combos that are contributing to the "craze".


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## Lucas339

Jmugleston said:


> I'd disagree with the *singe-handedly* part. They played a major role yes. They have created numerous morph combos as well. But to say the did it almost by themselves seems a bit unfair. There were many and continues to be many working with other morph combos that are contributing to the "craze".


get kevin's book and read the forward by RDR.


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## Jmugleston

Lucas339 said:


> get kevin's book and read the forward by RDR.


Sorry, don't care enough to. Plus, a foreword in the Kevin's book may be a biased source. Either way if people want to accredit the ball python market to one person so be it. It won't change my day at all. If they think that there were and are still numerous breeders feeding the morph frenzied enthusiasts, that works too. Personally I haven't kept a ball python in over 10 years and I don't see it changing anytime in the near future. Kevin and the guys at NERD have produced many beautiful morphs, but they just aren't my thing. I just get skeptical when I see a hasty generalization like that. It would seem that Bob Clark, Mike Wilbanks, Dave and Tracey from VPI, the Dan and Colette Sutherland, and even Jay from Prehistoric may have even played a role as well. It is just out of fairness I find it hard to give credit to a lone source but really it doesn't matter. I don't want this to turn into an all to common forum battle. If you think NERD did it all by themselves than that is okay. If I think a number of breeders were involved....who cares?


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## sharpfang

*Alotta Herpetoculturists contributed over yrs.*

Most helpful are the contributers outside USA.......Duh - Or we wouldn't even have'em.............Just gave away Barkers book{signed}.....But, I did buy a male c.b. baby who's dad was Albino.......1 week old{cute] for $10..........Last week! 

JJ


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## Lucas339

Jmugleston said:


> ....who cares?


then why take the time to comment


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