# A. robustus??? Sydney Funnel Web



## pnshmntMMA (Aug 6, 2009)

I was wondering if anyone in the hobby ever collects any of the notorious australian funnel web spiders or the sydney funnel web spider. i believe the scientific name is A.Robustus? not sure. just wondering. i hear they are very nasty


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## Sarcastro (Aug 6, 2009)

Nobody other than Aussies and researchers have them. Atrax.robustus are illegal to import into the U.S,Canada,90% of European country's, it is also illegal to export them out of Australia...but it would be pretty awesome to have one.if you did, you would have to exercise extreme caution cause they carry a nasty bite and are extremely venomous


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## pnshmntMMA (Aug 6, 2009)

wow i didnt know that. how does their venom compare to the most dangerous T's? is it necrotoxic venom or what?


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## patrickbull (Aug 6, 2009)

pnshmntMMA said:


> wow i didnt know that. how does their venom compare to the most dangerous T's? is it necrotoxic venom or what?


It's one of, if not, the most venomous spiders in the world. Way worse than any T. Wose than a black widow bite.


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## pnshmntMMA (Aug 6, 2009)

had no idea. the stereotype of Ts is they are the biggest and baddest. but apparently not. idk tho my g rosea is pretty fierce and i hear quite potent. (note intense sarcasm) lol. im sure somebody on here has antrax robustus but wont come forward because of the legality issue, which is a good idea. if they were legal who would take a chance on having one/some? what would constitute the 'most dangerous/deadly' spider? all i hear are conflicting stories about them


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## Sarcastro (Aug 6, 2009)

it's not a matter of most dangerous/venomous, it's which comes into contact with humans most.but to answer the question the most venomous is the Brazilian wandering spider...but the black widow has caused more deaths than any other spider because of people not seeking medical treatment until it's to late..with the funnel web, bites are so common that nearly every Aussie knows the procedures when bitten and get medical treatment. But here's a trivia question for you that most people don't know. What is the deadliest insect in the world(meaning what insect has killed more people than any other)?

the funnel webs venom i believe is a neurotic


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## zgraham (Aug 6, 2009)

The flea has killed the most people.


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## Venom (Aug 6, 2009)

The Australasian funnelwebs of the genera Atrax and Hadronyche, are the most deadly of the neurotoxin-bearing spiders. LD50 ratings ( lethal dosage in 50% of test mice ) for some species reach the 0.16 mg/kg ( milligrams of toxin necessary to kill kilograms of animal weight ). To put that in English terms, it would take 16/1000 of a GRAM of toxin, to kill a 2.2 lb rat.

For comparison, the LOWER the number, the GREATER the potency:

Eastern diamondback rattlesnake: 14.6 mg/kg
Gaboon viper        12.5 mg/kg
Banded krait:       3.6 mg/kg
King cobra            1.7 mg/kg
Black widow         0.90 mg/kg
Black mamba         0.32 mg/kg


And at 0.16 mg/kg, the Atrax/ Hadronyche funnelwebs are still TWICE as potent as the most toxic in that list.

For neurotoxic spiders, the funnelwebs are the most deadly. However, in many experts' opinions ( including mine ) the cytotoxic species of Sicarius, "six-eyed sand spiders" are even more hideously toxic to human life. There are a few good threads on that genus, on this forum, so I'm not going to reiterate them here.

Basically, there's no way a non-academic keeper will get a funnelweb, unless it's a Macrothele ( which are neither life-threatening, nor Australian ). They're just far too dangerous, and restricted.


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## pnshmntMMA (Aug 6, 2009)

Sarcastro said:


> it's not a matter of most dangerous/venomous, it's which comes into contact with humans most.but to answer the question the most venomous is the Brazilian wandering spider...but the black widow has caused more deaths than any other spider because of people not seeking medical treatment until it's to late..with the funnel web, bites are so common that nearly every Aussie knows the procedures when bitten and get medical treatment. But here's a trivia question for you that most people don't know. What is the deadliest insect in the world(meaning what insect has killed more people than any other)?
> 
> the funnel webs venom i believe is a neurotic


i would guess the mosquito?


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## pnshmntMMA (Aug 6, 2009)

wow thanks venom. i guess there are some things in this world that are not to be F-ed with. such as box jellyfish, hand grenade hot potato, and aus. funnel webs. so that venom index means that it is twice as potent as the black mamba? but does it inject less?


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## Sarcastro (Aug 6, 2009)

Venom said:


> The Australasian funnelwebs of the genera Atrax and Hadronyche, are the most deadly of the neurotoxin-bearing spiders.


this may be true but the venom they produce, ACTX which is a mixture of toxins are only lethal to humans,primates and other animals lacking high LgG and LgM factors. as were the venom PhTx3 produced by Phoneutria spp. is highly toxic to nearly every living creature..

also on another note:.. the venom indexing you used were for intravenous injection not subcutaneously which is what most bites are. since the the introduction of the antivenin of the A.robustum, there hasn't been a recorded fatality.In 2008 there were 41 deaths contributed to Latrodectus spp. world wide and 119 in Brazil that were caused by Phoneutria spp.


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## Sarcastro (Aug 6, 2009)

pnshmntMMA said:


> i would guess the mosquito?


the mosquito is correct!! it's responsible for over 2million deaths a year due to disease transmission


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## pnshmntMMA (Aug 6, 2009)

im counting my lucky stars i live where i do, i have to worry about black widows, rattlesnakes, mosquitos, brown recluses, but not the funnel web, or Phoneutria. america is nice in that we dont have a lot of things that can kill you as compared to australia, africa, asia, and central/south america. i dont have to be as paranoid about putting on old shoes as an aussie. now heres another question i think i already know the answer to...Phoneutria genus, definately not available in the hobby right? who would like to have one?


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## Venom (Aug 6, 2009)

Sarcastro said:


> this may be true but the venom they produce, ACTX which is a mixture of toxins are only lethal to humans,primates and other animals lacking high LgG and LgM factors. as were the venom PhTx3 produced by Phoneutria spp. is highly toxic to nearly every living creature..


But I don't care about every other living creature. I'm only dealing with toxicity in humans.



> also on another note:.. the venom indexing you used were for intravenous injection not subcutaneously which is what most bites are.


Um..nope. Dr. Brian Fry's website states these are subcutaneous LD50 values:

http://www.venomdoc.com/LD50/ld50sc.html




> since the the introduction of the antivenin of the A.robustum, there hasn't been a recorded fatality.In 2008 there were 41 deaths contributed to Latrodectus spp. world wide and 119 in Brazil that were caused by Phoneutria spp.


That doesn't make Atrax/ Hadronyche the less toxic...just the better treated. Yay for the Aussies! Booo Brazil!! ( this also has to do with availability of treatment--most Australians, and most funnelwebs equally live along the eastern coast, making proximity to a hospital much more likely. In Brazil, many localities of Phoneutria fera are out of reach of medical facilities--though P. nigriventor, the most toxic, is actually native to a well-developed region. ) 

BTW, where did you get those 41/ 119 numbers? Last I read, the Phoneutria-induced death toll ( confirmed ) was a mere handful a year.


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## Venom (Aug 6, 2009)

pnshmntMMA said:


> now heres another question i think i already know the answer to...Phoneutria genus, definately not available in the hobby right? who would like to have one?


Depends on who you are. They are available, in limited numbers, but are only circulated among well-reputed hobbyists of mucho experience. In other words: you can't find them at dealers' sites, only through the good 'ole boy network.


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## pnshmntMMA (Aug 6, 2009)

haha cue Deliverance theme song... not that im interested. im terrified of my only T as it is. i just have a love of science. thanks for all the info. our planet is chock full of freaky things that can kill you faster than you can say oops. look at the irucongi or however you spell it.. or the stonefish. even rosie odonells ugly mug


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## Venom (Aug 6, 2009)

pnshmntMMA said:


> even rosie odonells ugly mug


Amen to that!!! The LD50 on her face...wow, I don't want to know!


ROFL, you just reminded me of a Crocodile Dundee quote, she can "kill a man in 8 seconds, just by lookin at 'im!"


As for spiders, if you want to REALLY creep yourself out, get a load of what THIS spider can do:

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=127192


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## pnshmntMMA (Aug 6, 2009)

hahaha what would our world be without the creeps and freaks in hollywood we love to watch so much? i hate the media except when i need a good laugh. who gives a flying rats A$$ about who gets michael jacksons kids? angelina won another foreign kid at a raffle? congrats good for her, but dont interrupt king of queens for an exclusive about oprahs fundraiser to help the starving wildabeasts of the serenghetti or some crap like that. back to spiders...im still up in the air about what bit me when i was like 12. told me it was a wolf spider but who knows..had bazaar symptoms. mega hives for a week, fever, chills, general sick feeling. two small holes in my knee about half a centimeter apart.


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## Sarcastro (Aug 6, 2009)

pnshmntMMA said:


> what would constitute the 'most dangerous/deadly' spider?


I think we kinda got lost on the subject.to give the the simplest answer to the question earlier asked, the Brazilian wandering spider kills more people a year because there is no specific antivenin and poor medical treatment. followed by the latrodectus spp.


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## WRXspecR1 (Aug 10, 2009)

http://www.chemistrydaily.com/chemistry/Antivenin

according to this site there's an antivenom available for Phoneutria spp. And 119 death in only one year seems unrealistic since only a small pourcentage of bites result in severe envenomation.


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## Moltar (Aug 10, 2009)

Phoneutria and latrodectus (especially latro's) are much more widespread than the Aussie/Sydney funnel webs. They have a distribution that covers a small part of one continent whereas phoeneutria are all over south america and Latrodectus are lirterally all over the world (including AUS).

There's probably just one or two hospitals that handle all A robustus bites. Add that to the small number of envenomations (due to the small distribution) and it's no wonder there are few-to-no fatalities. Before they had antivenom there were far more fatalities i'm sure.


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## Equinox (Jun 22, 2020)

So, nothing like a reply 11 years in the making. But came across this thread and some of the information is not correct. Just incase anyone uses it for reference.

the intravenous LD50 of Atrax robustus in adult mice is approx:
Male: 6.0 mg/kg  
Female: 17.5 mg/kg

subcutaneous:
Male: 8.5mg/kg
Female: 65.0 mg/kg


The figure 0.16 mg/kg is a misunderstood piece of data which was done on the study of pure isolated Robustoxin, not the crude/whole venom of the spider. This figure was the result of a subcutaneous injection on a newborn mouse (less than 2 days old) of this isolated component only. The venom as a whole had an LD50 on the same baby mice of 1.5mg/kg. Quite a large difference.

As previously stated, male A robustus does have a very low LD50 in primates. A result of 0.2mg/kg was achieved when tested on Macaques.

Reactions: Helpful 1 | Love 1


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