# Cage decor for slings. Y/N? Opinions?



## CBickert (Oct 5, 2014)

I am starting this thread because I would like your opinions and insight to your husbandry. 

So I am aware some hobbyists keep their slings in a deli cup or vial with just substrate or perhaps a twig for the arboreals. 

Even Stan Schultz says on pg. 255, "Decorations and retreats are neither practical nor required in this situation. Don't bother."

I have to say that I have have had different results keeping my slings in "cages" with decor. All of mine get a small piece of cork bark (for both trerrestrial and arboreal) and a fake leaf or two. Now maybe because I have only 12 this is more feasible, but I would like to report my findings.

All of my terrestrial sling have buried themselves under the cork bark pice and usually are out and about for viewing. They also molt in there and I am able to watch the process.

My arboreal slings have either made tube webs anchored to the cork bark or the fake plant, or both. 

I feel as is giving the T's decor, resulting in more hiding places, we can observe a more "natural" behavior, and as an added bonus some really like webbing and/or substrate structures. 

My two examples that are the best example are my H. maculata and my P. murinus slings, both around 1". My P. irminia sling comes in a close third. 

My PM has an intricate web structure that is both underground and above ground. My HM also had a tunnel that was under a leaf and went to the bottom of the cage, but after the last molt it has taken up a new home against a piece of cork bark and has a nice new webbing structure.

It is really necessary, perhaps not. Does it result in a more enjoyable keeping experience, perhaps. Is it more work than necessary, perhaps. Thoughts?


----------



## Poec54 (Oct 5, 2014)

I keep my slings in 16 oz deli cups, some arboreals in 32 oz.  They SHOULD have 'decorations', and by that I mean things that are useful to them.  I give mine some combination of cork, plastic plant, and long fiber sphagnum, all of which they use to construct their retreats.  Like you said, this promotes more natural behavior in spiders.  If they don't have a retreat they feel secure in, they're far more likely to feel stranded out in the open when you open their cage, and race out.  It's in everyone's best interests to have useful decorations in the cage.  Keep in mind most of Stan's experience was with Brachypelma and Aphonopelma, and he sold off his collection before the tidal wave of new tropical introductions hit the US and Canada in the mid 2000's.  Most of my collection is tropicals, and if I didn't give them decorations, I'd be constantly chasing slings around my spider room.

Reactions: Like 6


----------



## cold blood (Oct 5, 2014)

Yup, I always have something for them to hide under or, if they are webbers, something to anchor webbing to.  What I use is dependent on how much room there is in the particular space.  My little I. mira is in a small deli cup, and its got its usual underground lair, but I still have a plastic leaf in there...which its webbed a little and created its trap door beneath.   Some never use it, like both my B. albiceps, but there's still a leaf for them to get under should they desire.   Plus without it, it just looks barren.  As they grow, so does their décor.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Enn49 (Oct 5, 2014)

I gave my tiny O. diamantinensis a very small leaf and I'm so glad I did. It's already dug into the substrate and webbed around the leaf but seems to spend most of it's time sitting on the leaf in full view.


----------



## CBickert (Oct 5, 2014)

Poec54 said:


> If they don't have a retreat they feel secure in, they're far more likely to feel stranded out in the open when you open their cage, and race out.  It's in everyone's best interests to have useful decorations in the cage.  Keep in mind most of Stan's experience was with Brachypelma and Aphonopelma, and he sold off his collection before the tidal wave of new tropical introductions hit the US and Canada in the mid 2000's.  Most of my collection is tropicals, and if I didn't give them decorations, I'd be constantly chasing slings around my spider room.


This. I agree with functional decor actually helping with the safety (and sanity) of keepers. 
And as a side topic, I know the 4th edition is underway, but since the 3rd edition has Stan kept OW and tropicals? Or is he relying on fellow hobbyists to acquire that information?

---------- Post added 10-05-2014 at 12:06 PM ----------




cold blood said:


> As they grow, so does their décor.


Yes. I don't see why a sling wouldn't get "decor" when you would supply some as an adult. OR in some cases maybe the adult never gets any.
I think your I. mira was aware of the leaf and took shelter underneath it. My H. mac did the same thing.

---------- Post added 10-05-2014 at 12:08 PM ----------




Enn49 said:


> I gave my tiny O. diamantinensis a very small leaf and I'm so glad I did. It's already dug into the substrate and webbed around the leaf but seems to spend most of it's time sitting on the leaf in full view.


Although my slings have hides, they are almost all out in the open for me to observe. I am going to try to get photos before the next rehouse.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## David VB (Oct 5, 2014)

I too will give any sling some decoration, coz i like to see a piece of nature, but also coz i feel they need it to feel 'at home'.


----------



## Poec54 (Oct 5, 2014)

CBickert said:


> And as a side topic, I know the 4th edition is underway, but since the 3rd edition has Stan kept OW and tropicals? Or is he relying on fellow hobbyists to acquire that information?


I think we can help Stan out with this, as many tropical species have been introduced in the last 10 years, and we're continually making discoveries about them in captivity.  The hobby exploded in the mid 2000's with the help of the internet.  What's happened since then is amazing.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## CBickert (Oct 5, 2014)

Poec54 said:


> I think we can help Stan out with this, as many tropical species have been introduced in the last 10 years, and we're continually making discoveries about them in captivity.  The hobby exploded in the mid 2000's with the help of the internet.  What's happened since then is amazing.


To be honest, I wasn't aware that keeping tarantulas as pets was a thing until I discovered Arachnoboards in December of 2012. Well to clarify I knew perhaps a few people kept them, but I didn't think it would be this popular of a hobby.
 I know you personally have seen many changes since the 70's, but I am very curious what the next 30 years will bring to the hobby.


----------



## telepatella (Oct 5, 2014)

From the minority: I don't give them anything - keeps it tidy. 

I have reared a ton of babies thuswise and they all went on to lead full and balanced lives into adulthood

When they do become juveniles and or adults, I give them something simple, think Mies Van Der Rohe rather than Green and Green.


----------



## CBickert (Oct 5, 2014)

telepatella said:


> From the minority: I don't give them anything - keeps it tidy.
> 
> I have reared a ton of babies thuswise and they all went on to lead full and balanced lives into adulthood
> 
> When they do become juveniles and or adults, I give them something simple, think Mies Van Der Rohe rather than Green and Green.


I think from your experience it comes down to feasibility. It is a lot easier for you to just supply a substrate, and I can understand that. 
My train of thought was more along the lines of observing behavior and that relating to an overall enjoyment in keeping the T's. But yes, they will survive and continue to grow into adulthood.

Also, I can relate to your analogy of decoration being a graduate architecture student. Also being a Mies fan among others


----------



## telepatella (Oct 5, 2014)

^Salut! 

I keep all my slings in their delis within a larger tank for better control of climate and humidity. And, despite the lack of decor, I do see the behaviors that we enjoy. Don't want to come off as _half-measuring_ it.


----------



## CBickert (Oct 5, 2014)

telepatella said:


> ^Salut!
> 
> I keep all my slings in their delis within a larger tank for better control of climate and humidity. And, despite the lack of decor, I do see the behaviors that we enjoy. Don't want to come off as _half-measuring_ it.


Right. I didn't mean to assume that you aren't able to enjoy your slings behavior because of the lack of decor. It just so happens my favorite part of T keeping is to see the self-constructed homes and the webbing or substrate shelters they create. That might have something to do with being an architecture student. :idea: 

But this thread was created for me to gain insight into practices and to see how many people bother putting decor for slings. Just curiosity.


----------



## Poec54 (Oct 5, 2014)

CBickert said:


> I am very curious what the next 30 years will bring to the hobby.


My hope is that we continue to have new species introduced and reproduced in captivity, until we have all of them established and safe from habitat destruction.

My fear is that they will be banned due to the irresponsible stunts of a handful of thrill seekers.  That's why I don't cut them any slack.  They have no 'right' to ruin it for the rest of us.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## CBickert (Oct 5, 2014)

Poec54 said:


> My hope is that we continue to have new species introduced and reproduced in captivity, until we have all of them established and safe from habitat destruction.
> 
> My fear is that they will be banned due to the irresponsible stunts of a handful of thrill seekers.  That's why I don't cut them any slack.  They have no 'right' to ruin it for the rest of us.


I hope you are able to! So I can then reap the benefits of your actions.


----------



## Fyrwulf (Oct 5, 2014)

I read the 69 page Google Books excerpt of Tarantula Keeper's Guide and it comes across as a guide on how to keep as many tarantulas as possible as cheaply as possible. I'm not down with that, sorry. I don't intend to keep more than one or two tarantulas for quite a while, so I have no problems giving them a nicely decorated home with plenty of plant and cork-based hiding spots, a proper photoperiod, and controlled humidity.


----------



## CBickert (Oct 5, 2014)

Fyrwulf said:


> I read the 69 page Google Books excerpt of Tarantula Keeper's Guide and it comes across as a guide on how to keep as many tarantulas as possible as cheaply as possible. I'm not down with that, sorry. I don't intend to keep more than one or two tarantulas for quite a while, so I have no problems giving them a nicely decorated home with plenty of plant and cork-based hiding spots, a proper photoperiod, and controlled humidity.


I read it as that way as well. It's more learn the basics and rules, then you know how to break them" type thing. But like mentioned above there is a 4th edition in the works currently and maybe some husbandry practices will be updates to include things that are more "natural".


----------



## Poec54 (Oct 5, 2014)

Fyrwulf said:


> I read the 69 page Google Books excerpt of Tarantula Keeper's Guide and it comes across as a guide on how to keep as many tarantulas as possible as cheaply as possible. I'm not down with that, sorry. I don't intend to keep more than one or two tarantulas for quite a while, so I have no problems giving them a nicely decorated home with plenty of plant and cork-based hiding spots, a proper photoperiod, and controlled humidity.


I've got a lot of slings, and still think they need decorations, it doesn't take much effort or cost.  To do their best, they should feel safe and secure, doesn't matter how many you have.  I think Stan's perspective was based on docile NW slings, that aren't nearly as prone to panicking and running out of their containers as arboreals and high-strung tropicals are.  There's a lot of changes been going on in the hobby, and I think that's why Stan wants to do a 4th edition.


----------



## jigalojey (Oct 5, 2014)

Agreed, nothing bugs me more than a plain looking enclosure, I like natural looking set ups with moss, fake/real plants and a natural looking hide (I collect wood from the bush and bake/ boil it with water) since I can't find cork bark anywhere here and I know for a fact as opportunistic burrowers they prefer the hide over nothing.


----------



## tonypace2009 (Oct 5, 2014)

One of my favorite things to do is decorate my enclosures. Seems to work better with aboreals. Most of my terristials seem to do there own decorating.


----------



## CBickert (Oct 5, 2014)

tonypace2009 said:


> One of my favorite things to do is decorate my enclosures. Seems to work better with aboreals. Most of my terristials seem to do there own decorating.


Agreed!! But having a smaller collection (14) and not a lot of expendable income at the moment, I have been putting my money into slings and not enclosures. But I have been planning for sure! I am excited when they hit their adult size in the next couple years. And I will have the funds to do a proper display enclosure.


----------



## tonypace2009 (Oct 5, 2014)

Same here not much money to spend. My versicolor enclosure total cost only set me back les than $40 dollars and its a 3gallons. Check out the enclosure section many neat Ideas and some of them just a few dollars.


----------



## CBickert (Oct 5, 2014)

tonypace2009 said:


> Same here not much money to spend. My versicolor enclosure total cost only set me back les than $40 dollars and its a 3gallons. Check out the enclosure section many neat Ideas and some of them just a few dollars.


Very nice. Custom made or no?
Mine are getting to the size where I will be getting some AMAC boxes soon. The 4x4x7. I'm not poor, but I'm not ready to dish out the money for tarantulacages.com enclosures. Lol 

I have already grabbed a bunch of dried wood that I will break pieces off of and chop up to use. Cork bark adds up quick!

---------- Post added 10-05-2014 at 10:42 PM ----------

Without starting a new thread, could I get approval for a custom enclosure?

I have planned out enclosures for my potential adult T's. I will have two sizes. A "Large" and an "XL". 7"x7"x11" and 11"x11"x17" respectively. 
They will be made in both terrestrial and arboreal setups. 

My thinking is that an average size T, being 4"-6" will be in the large, and larger Ts from 6"-9" will be in the XL.

These sizes are not arbitrary. It is coming from a 24"x36" template and a laser cutter. I am able to make 9 large enclosures and 4 XL enclosures out of a 4'x8' sheet of acrylic. 

Please let me know if these are a jail cell or not. They are basically a 2.5 gallon and a little less than a 10 gallon.


----------



## tonypace2009 (Oct 5, 2014)

Some pet stores will sale cork bark peices very cheap. The amac boxes are fun to decorate.


----------



## CBickert (Oct 6, 2014)

Bump on the enclosure size??


----------



## Fyrwulf (Oct 6, 2014)

CBickert said:


> Bump on the enclosure size??


Well, it really depends on how extensively you plan to decorate. I'm planning on an Exo Terra medium tall (18Dx24Wx24H) with backgrounds siliconed to the sides and back. Substrate is likely to be 5.5 inches of soil (if I can manage it), separating screen, and half an inch of pea gravel to act as a drainage layer. Then there's the vines (dwarf red vine would be nice) to mount on the background, peacock club moss as a top layer for the substrate, croton as the centerpiece plant, and cork tube (or drift wood) hide. If you can mentally picture that, then you realize that there isn't actually all that much empty space.


----------



## CBickert (Oct 6, 2014)

Fyrwulf said:


> Well, it really depends on how extensively you plan to decorate. I'm planning on an Exo Terra medium tall (18Dx24Wx24H) with backgrounds siliconed to the sides and back. Substrate is likely to be 5.5 inches of soil (if I can manage it), separating screen, and half an inch of pea gravel to act as a drainage layer. Then there's the vines (dwarf red vine would be nice) to mount on the background, peacock club moss as a top layer for the substrate, croton as the centerpiece plant, and cork tube (or drift wood) hide. If you can mentally picture that, then you realize that there isn't actually all that much empty space.


Yes I can start to picture that. And you are correct in saying that the decor, especially the backgrounds take up space quickly! Are you planning for a terrestrial?

And with mine there would be the necessary hiding decor. A piece of wood or two, a fake plant, water bowl. Nothing very extravagant, but not too bare either. No backgrounds as I would like the ability to look in from all sides.
Like I said the enclosures are the equivalent of a 2.5 gal and a bit smaller than a 10 gal. I have seen people set up 2.5 gallon arboreal, but my concern is more with terrestrials in a 2.5. Would a B. smithi be fine in that? Again it's 7x7x11.
Then there is the XL, 11x11x17 for T's like an LP or a P. cancerides, and my G. pulchripes and P. cambridgei. It would be proportionally the same as the B. smith in the "large".


----------



## Fyrwulf (Oct 6, 2014)

CBickert said:


> Yes I can start to picture that. And you are correct in saying that the decor, especially the backgrounds take up space quickly! Are you planning for a terrestrial?


Nope, Avicularia of some kind. Need the soil depth for the plants. Going to have springtail and isopod colonies in there to keep the tank clean and healthy.


----------



## squidstuff (Oct 31, 2014)

For those who keep real plants in the enclosures; are any dangerous to the tarantulas? I know to keep cacti/sharp plants away, but how about some basic succulents like graptopetalum?


----------



## archaeosite (Oct 31, 2014)

tonypace2009 said:


> Some pet stores will sale cork bark peices very cheap. The amac boxes are fun to decorate.


For anyone looking for cheap cork bark, check out New England Herpetoculture. They sell gallon bags of cork bark pieces which you can hot glue or cut as needed. They also sell bigger chunks. I got two "medium" chunks for $7 each and they were enormous - the same size a LPS charges $14 for!! Of course, you have to pay shipping, but if you need enough cork then the shipping pays for itself in savings. I highly recommend NE Herpetoculture.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## viper69 (Nov 1, 2014)

BeanFarm is even cheaper for cork bark. I always get huge boxes from them.


----------



## 14pokies (Nov 1, 2014)

Poec54 said:


> My hope is that we continue to have new species introduced and reproduced in captivity, until we have all of them established and safe from habitat destruction.
> 
> My fear is that they will be banned due to the irresponsible stunts of a handful of thrill seekers.  That's why I don't cut them any slack.  They have no 'right' to ruin it for the rest of us.


 i too worry that pokie showoffs and those that tell tall tales of envenomation will.be the death of the hobby. Sellers should be a little more carefull who they sell hots to also.


----------



## Bugmom (Nov 1, 2014)

My animals aren't "display" or "decor" for my home. They're kept in a bedroom that houses all of my animals (inverts an reptiles). 

I've had mixed results with giving cage decor. I have some that make use of it, and some that totally ignore it. After having kept over 100 tarantulas of all different species and age, I've decided that the answer will almost always be "Tarantula does what tarantula wants."

Reactions: Like 1


----------

