# Hysterocrates hercules what exacually is the fuss?



## bloodred1889 (Feb 19, 2013)

Ok I don't keep up with new species in the hobby until they are not so rare anymore, so im sure these are something to shout about.
can someone explain why they are so mysterious, or cool?
are they massive or something, where are they from? whats going on? 

thanks


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## Philth (Feb 19, 2013)

It has a cool name :}

Later, Tom

Reactions: Like 1


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## Marijan2 (Feb 19, 2013)

There is rumor that H. hercules practically dissapeared in hobby and he is impossible to get.


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## McGuiverstein (Feb 20, 2013)

Marijan2 said:


> There is rumor that H. hercules practically dissapeared in hobby and he is impossible to get.


I could be wrong, but if memory serves H. hercules was never in the hobby, and the spiders that are sold as hercules are actually gigas. To me, it's a classic case of want-but-cant-have-because-if-the-warlords-don't-get-you-while-you're-trying-to-collect-them-the-animals-will. Of course, that's how it supposedly is in the good old US of A. This may not be true in Croatia.


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## Cydaea (Feb 20, 2013)

I came cross a Dutch seller (same guy I got my B.smithi and B.boehmei slings from) that sells H. hercules slings. I can't be sure it actually is hercules, of course, but could it be that they're still in the hobby in Europe?


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## Scolopeon (Feb 20, 2013)

What is not to like?

Cool name, mysterious lore... Finally, A danger story all rolled into one if you have heard about the area.

The spider itself has a massive domed carapace, powerful chelicirae.. Is the largest old world, dethroning the KB for mass, although the Phoneyusa genus looks impressive.

The specimen in Russ Gurleys A picture guide looks as impressive as a blondi.

This is an 8" specimen I had imported from Nigeria, acts like a blondi without the hair kicking, is it the real deal? I have no idea, I just love the look and attitude of it.




Similar size to my KB, here is a shot for comparison:


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## Scolopeon (Feb 20, 2013)

Scolopeon said:


> What is not to like?
> 
> Cool name, mysterious lore... Finally, A danger story all rolled into one if you have heard about the area.
> 
> ...


Just for you I got my copy of the book out and snapped a pic... The fact that there is no proof this is the real hercules, further adds to the mystery, the spider here has a serious cephalophorax though.


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## Philth (Feb 20, 2013)

I like how you put your water mark on someone else's picture lol

Later, Tom

Reactions: Like 5


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## Scolopeon (Feb 20, 2013)

Now to add to this, Arachnidsrva has imported his own specimens from Nigeria, all massive, with one over 8", they have a similar structure and features but his are more grey to black, could there be regional variations in Nigeria, or does he have himself A Phoneyusa sp. He is currently waiting for them to be examined by the authority of Baboon Spiders, Mr. Richard Gallon, so that will prove to be interesting. I hope he will contribute some pictures to this topic.

Here is a sp. of Phoneyusa, these are probably not in the hobby also...

http://www.birdspiders.com/gallery/index.php/Tarantulas/birdspiders_0735


A lot of users on here are undoubtedly fed up of reading about this "mythical" Tarantula, I for one am fascinated by the prospect of monster old worlds.
The actor from Lost, Dominique Monaghan was supposed to be leading a trip to Nigeria to find the hercules, not sure what came of it though.


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## Ultum4Spiderz (Feb 20, 2013)

IMO some-were the Goliath bird-eater must have a Equally sized Old worlder , perhaps these can grow as large 
You would think the King baboons would have a Larger relative LOL


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## Philth (Feb 20, 2013)

Oh come on now, I was just having a little fun here. My first comment is very relevant to the topic, as there is some truth to it. There is definitely some attraction to this species because of the name.

Later, Tom


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## Scolopeon (Feb 20, 2013)

Yep, shame they have to be exaggeratted, but regardless hercules is up there with King Baboon in size.
	

		
			
		

		
	




So in this compilation I put together back in 2009/2010, you can see the type specimen, the real deal.. I did a double take when looking at the carapace, in true Hysterocrates fashion the abdomen is undersized and oblong, so it didn't match the Goliath, however we are talking about a spider with a large cephalophorax and span.

Measurements were also taken..
"Pocock did (taken from Smith's Baboon spiders book) length 90mm Carapace 36mm x30mm, leg I 81mm, leg IV 90mm gives an idea to over all size." - you are looking at a spider 7.5" - 8.5" based on this measurement, not the monster size claimed, but no slouch for a Hysterocrates.
Interestingly, large Hysterocrates gigas can equal this size, with reports of specimens of over 8" known, other Hysterocrates can also approach this size; H.laticeps, H.scepticus, H.ederi, in no particular order.


The exact reason these are so elusive was explained by Michael Jacobi: 
"Originally Posted by Natemass  
when is someone going to get those buggers in the hobby!"

"When you hire a large contingent of mercenaries and special forces commandos, do a HALO (high-altitude, low-opening) parachute drop into the upper Niger Delta (probably the most dangerous place on Earth), avoid the gunboats and forests full of soldiers that will kill all but their own, find the monsters and wait for your gunship extraction team...  The region is very hostile with the local warloads none too keen on outsiders, especially due to the petroleum interests in the area.

Cheers, Michael"

Reactions: Like 1


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## Scolopeon (Feb 20, 2013)

[/COLOR]This link to Dr. Karl Shukers blog should fill you in about the real size of the holotype and what happened with the expedition to find it:

http://karlshuker.blogspot.co.uk/2011/07/hobbit-actor-and-real-life-shelob-or.html

Unfortunately the myth surrounding this spider is even larger than the spider itself, this causes massive problems when the genus Hysterocrates is a complete mess anyways and has led to almost every dealer labeling gigas as hercules for a quick profit. In reality no one knows what they have... Save some key identifying features between sp. and even then the lines are blurred because of more than one species having these aforementioned traits.
Hybridisation in this hobby was inevitable, which has led to the hobby H.gigas being referred to as "pet trade gigas" An effort to correct this by labeling Hysterocrates where they were originally caught has been started... e.g.. H. sp. Cameroon, H. sp. Nigeria... And so on.

The state of Hysterocrates in the hobbt can be read here:
http://www.the-t-store.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=3781

Save nothing short of a complete sp. restart (which is underway) and reclassifying these African spiders, again underway by Mr. Gallon.

We are going to have this confusion for quite some time.


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## arachnidsrva (Feb 20, 2013)

I didn't directly get them imported - but I have " a guy " that brings in all kinds of wacky stuff from Africa. The Afrikans work hard to get the "best snakes", even over threat of violence.

"My guy" called me and said "I've got some wacky stuff I've never seen before" - He knew I wanted them - I picked up specimens at two different times and then one of his Afrikans was murdered.

So their "collecting territories" are most likely controversial. There are good odds they won't come back around until someone gets the balls to go back where they were at. 

Scolopeon - Don't sweat Tom, he's busting your balls because he can. He can also back it up too so you've got to give it to him. He spent some time shooting my Baboons in Arizona. 


Richard Gallon was very interested, but not as much when he realized I was in the U.S. - I still have one in my freezer, I tried to follow up with him but never heard back. 

Maybe if we're nice enough Tom can post the shots that he took from ATS - since I never got to see them. (wink-wink) 4-5 months after AZ she molted .. so I'd love to post recent pictures so we can do a before an after.


My concern with your specimens Scolopeon is that Leg IV is super thick and it seems more light brown.


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## Scolopeon (Feb 20, 2013)

arachnidsrva said:


> I didn't directly get them imported - but I have " a guy " that brings in all kinds of wacky stuff from Africa. The Afrikans work hard to get the "best snakes", even over threat of violence.
> 
> "My guy" called me and said "I've got some wacky stuff I've never seen before" - He knew I wanted them - I picked up specimens at two different times and then one of his Afrikans was murdered.
> 
> ...


Are you refering to the KB underneath it, only pic 1 is my sp. Nigeria.

This is why you cannot judge pictures, leg IV is rake thin, i'll get you another shot, yes it is brown you are correct.
The males of this sp look very diff from yours too, and they also never get thickened legs.








Scolopeon said:


> Are you refering to the KB underneath it, only pic 1 is my sp. Nigeria.
> 
> This is why you cannot judge pictures, leg IV is rake thin, i'll get you another shot, yes it is brown you are correct.
> The males of this sp look very diff from yours too, and they also never get thickened legs.


Your largest sp, reminds me of Phoneyusa, check out this picture with the golden bands you mentioned.


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## arachnidsrva (Feb 20, 2013)

Now what is this? Is this a Phoneyusa ? 

This looks very similar almost identical to what I have 

What do you think Tom ?


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## Scolopeon (Feb 20, 2013)

Mine is some type of Hysterocrates from Nigeria and yours deff looks different, those thick leg IV pics are my King Baboon, maybe putting KB for comparison was too sparse.
What really impressed me was the measurements you gave on the carapace, 43mm x 35 or something was it? That is a good chunk larger than this one.

Why do you think I want one of yours haha.

I believe Mr Gallon himself was saying how Phoneyusa Belandana is considerably more impressive than H. Hercules.

This specimen I have has pair I as the thickest, pair II, III and IV are equal in width.
It is also very leggy for the size, with a scrawny looking abdomen even after eating a whole chick, still looks oblong and scrawny.


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## arachnidsrva (Feb 20, 2013)

Scolopeon you have me excited all over again. I can't wait til Brett jumps on this thread. 

43mm x 35 was her carapace size. I haven't flooded her out since the molt - which is really exciting.


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## Scolopeon (Feb 20, 2013)

Haha you need to get me one of those specimens, even if it is costly... Those dimensions are larger than most blondi.. Hopefully you have some luck getting some more.

In regards to my sp. Nigeria, I don't think R. Gallon knows what they are, the rumour on Uk sites is this may be hercules.


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## arachnidsrva (Feb 20, 2013)

i'll get her out tomorrow if I have time and I'll try and mic her and get a shot of it


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## Scolopeon (Feb 20, 2013)

Looking forward to it, did you see the herc pic posted on page 1, The carapace on that is unbelievable.


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## arachnidsrva (Feb 20, 2013)

the intriguing part is that mine are that brown for a month or two - then they become black again for the majority of the molt cycle ... then it repeats


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## Philth (Feb 21, 2013)

arachnidsrva said:


> Now what is this? Is this a Phoneyusa ?
> 
> This looks very similar almost identical to what I have
> 
> What do you think Tom ?


You would have to ask Peter Grabowitz of Germany since its his spider/photo.  A few months ago when he posted it I did notice the striking resemblances to the spiders that you have.  If I remember correctly Peter was calling them possibly_ Phoneyusa_.  That was always my first guess if you remember, but I don't know enough about African spiders to give a serious answer.  If I have time later I will post the pics I took in AZ, but I was a bit disappointed the way they turned out.

Later, Tom


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## Scolopeon (Feb 21, 2013)

Only had this girl 1-2 weeks, can't wait until she molts, her carapace is 37 x 32 mm


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## arachnidsrva (Feb 21, 2013)

thanks tom!


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## Alltheworld601 (Feb 21, 2013)

I would LOVE one of those Phoneyusa Ts.  That's one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Chris_Skeleton (Feb 21, 2013)

I've heard that if you send the crown prince of Nigeria $100,000 so he can flee to the US, he will bring you many H. hercules as repayment.

Reactions: Like 5


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## arachnidsrva (Feb 21, 2013)

hahahahahahahah


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## jarmst4 (Feb 22, 2013)

I love getting those emails.


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## Scolopeon (Feb 26, 2013)

*Comparison my sp nigeria and sp cameroon*

Here is a few shots of my sp nigeria with my sp cameroon 6" female... I now have a user on BTS with a topic, been informed Richard Gallon is having some problems with his PC and should get back to me.


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## Scourge (Feb 26, 2013)

Just for reference, here's some more pictures of the Phoneyusa that Cedrik found in Gabon (the same sp. pictured on Rick Wests site). Could possibly be the same as the species sold by Grabowitz from Cameroon (as Cameroon borders Gabon)

http://www.the-t-store.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=14294


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## Ultum4Spiderz (Feb 26, 2013)

Very Big Carpace wow ! awesome pics:4:


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## Scolopeon (Feb 26, 2013)

Scourge said:


> Just for reference, here's some more pictures of the Phoneyusa that Cedrik found in Gabon (the same sp. pictured on Rick Wests site). Could possibly be the same as the species sold by Grabowitz from Cameroon (as Cameroon borders Gabon)
> 
> http://www.the-t-store.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=14294


Thanks for this, it does look very similar, I would love to get one... Grabowitz still selling these?


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## Bugmom (Feb 26, 2013)

Scolopeon said:


> Here is a few shots of my sp nigeria with my sp cameroon 6" female... I now have a user on BTS with a topic, been informed Richard Gallon is having some problems with his PC and should get back to me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Holy mother of !!!! That's not a spider, it's a small tank!

I need this in my life.

Blame Tapatalk + "smart" phone for the typos kthnx


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## Scourge (Feb 26, 2013)

Scolopeon said:


> Thanks for this, it does look very similar, I would love to get one... Grabowitz still selling these?


Don't know, but he may have some stock hidden away, or may know if somebody is breeding them. Worth emailing him and asking


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## arachnidsrva (Feb 26, 2013)

Im gonna post up new pictures of mine tomorrow, they haven't been out in a while.. I think that we have the same specimens


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## freedumbdclxvi (Feb 27, 2013)

I love the look of the sp Nigeria.  Should they ever be bred in America, I would definitely pick up a few.


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## Scolopeon (Feb 27, 2013)

Yeah me too, it was sold as hercules, but until Gallon looks at it, it is sp. Nigeria for now.

I have a copy of Andew smiths baboon id guide, and the only two sp. from Nigeria are laticeps and hercules, so unless it is an undescribed sp, it is one of those two, laticeps has an even rounder carapace but is a lot smaller, 23 x 23 mm, hercules 36 x 30 mm, this girl is about 37 x 32 mm, give or take a mm.

I know for a fact it is Hysterocrates because of the cheliciral granules, so that much is a given.

Now I am really interested to find if out Arachnidrvas specimen is Hysterocrates or Phoneyusa... If it has the granules it is Hysterocrates.


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## xTimx (Feb 27, 2013)

adding my photos of my confirmed female 4" H. Hercules!    her name is Lolth.  HOPE THIS HELPS OUT!


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## Scolopeon (Feb 27, 2013)

xTimx said:


> adding my photos of my confirmed female 4" H. Hercules!    her name is Lolth.  HOPE THIS HELPS OUT!
> 
> View attachment 113492
> View attachment 113493
> View attachment 113494


Hard to say for sure what this is, it looks nothing like the juveniles of my spider, but it does have a very olive sheen...
Leg IV is thicker than leg I, so it is probably closer to H. gigas or crassipes, I can say for certain it is not hercules, no one can confirm they have hercules, ask the foreword on baboon spiders Mr. Richard Gallon, who confirmed this for you?
Without knowing for certain if it is wild caught it could be a hybrid between those two listed above, hence the problem with Hysterocrates.

I'm looking at my copy of Andrew Smiths Baboon Spiders right now, any info where the seller got it from?


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## xTimx (Feb 27, 2013)

hmmmmm ok

i think he said he got it imported from london UK. not too sure honestly.   i'll talk to the importer and ask him and let you know the backstory of it 

EDIT: says he bought from a small breeder in germany.  from there....thats it.... haha


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## Scolopeon (Feb 27, 2013)

This is why Hysterocrates is such a mess, we have similarities between sp. and this led people to hybridise them... My sp. Cameroon above looks closer to your spider than the sp. Nigeria next to it, the Cameroon is on the right.
These are labelled where they were collected from because of said issues, this indicates that they are wild collected and this will in effect stop the hybridising in the hobby.

A lot of people label gigas as hercules to turn a quick profit, which is another issue.

Real Hysterocrates hercules never have thickened leg IV, it is always almost uniform in width to leg I, II, III.. This is how I can tell it is not hercules.

A shot of your Hysterocrates sp. with it's legs fully laid out would be great.


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## xTimx (Feb 27, 2013)

i'll try to get a shot....but since she's been put into this enclosure she's just been curling up because of the stress of the move.   i only put her into this enclosure last night.   so i'll give her time.   she's already been webbing the floor up really good.


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## Scolopeon (Feb 27, 2013)

It is an amazing spider none the less, I love all baboon spiders.
As it is a juvenile, a positive ID is harder, although at 4" she is just starting to get the thickened rear legs.

Going by color and hairiness I would say you have a H. crassipes.
On look and leg thickness, H. gigas..

crassipes has entirely thick leg IV, gigas has slightly thicker leg IV with thick tibia, they lose these when they mature.

An identifying feature of those two sp. is leg II is longer than leg III.. H. Hercules, leg II and III are the same length.


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## Peter Grabowitz (Feb 28, 2013)

I check "mine".....


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## Scolopeon (Mar 1, 2013)

Peter Grabowitz said:


> I check "mine".....
> View attachment 113522


Looks identical to mine, just bigger lol!


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## YoshiDavid (Apr 2, 2022)

Scolopeon said:


> Just for you I got my copy of the book out and snapped a pic... The fact that there is no proof this is the real hercules, further adds to the mystery, the spider here has a serious cephalophorax though.
> 
> View attachment 113241


sorry what book was this from…I’m on the hunt for anything to do with African species.
Thanks


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## NMTs (Apr 3, 2022)

YoshiDavid said:


> sorry what book was this from…I’m on the hunt for anything to do with African species.
> Thanks


Um, maybe you didn't notice that the last post in this thread was 9 years ago?  That said, the photo you're asking about says right on it that it's from "A Color Guide to Tarantulas of the World" by Russ Gurley, 1994...

Reactions: Helpful 2


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