# When did you know you were ready for OW?



## owlbear (Jun 14, 2015)

Just as the title says. I'm curious as to what lead everyone who keeps OW species to know they were ready.

Personally I am waiting until my p. Irminia is full grown and I have had plenty of experience in feeding and performing cage maintenance. Though so far she doesn't seem very interested in bolting or being aggressive (now my a. Geniculata and hapalopus on the other hand...) Mostly she waits in her dirt curtain for food to appear near one of the entries. If she never ends up being the flighty creature I'm told she will be, I wouldn't mind raising another up, since they're my favorite.

What about you? Was there a spider or a certain event that led you to think you'd be able to work with OW species?


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## vespers (Jun 14, 2015)

When the stars were properly aligned, and the great bear's tail hung low in the sky...my fellow initiates and I donned our cloaks at midnight, and read aloud incantations by moonlight from ancient texts. Only then did I know I was ready...

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## owlbear (Jun 14, 2015)

vespers said:


> When the stars were properly aligned, and the great bear's tail hung low in the sky...my fellow initiates and I donned our cloaks at midnight, and read aloud incantations by moonlight from ancient texts. Only then did I know I was ready...


That... actually sounds pretty awesome. Now I want to go camping.


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## Sam_Peanuts (Jun 14, 2015)

Personally, I never had to ask myself that question.

I got an OBT as my second tarantula back when I knew next to nothing about them. All I knew was that she was more aggressive than my rosea. 
I respected that and was always careful with her and never really had a problem(she did run away when I rehoused her in her first enclosure, but catching her wasn't a problem and I didn't stop to admire her before closing the lid the second time) so when I leaned more about them, I knew I wouldn't have much problem taking care of any of them.

I'm a very calm person so I don't panic easily which helps a lot. I'm sure things could have gotten much worse if I panicked on a few occasions.

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## Biollantefan54 (Jun 14, 2015)

vespers said:


> When the stars were properly aligned, and the great bear's tail hung low in the sky...my fellow initiates and I donned our cloaks at midnight, and read aloud incantations by moonlight from ancient texts. Only then did I know I was ready...


Dang it vespers! I was going to say something like that before I clicked the thread.


I never get nothing.

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## TownesVanZandt (Jun 14, 2015)

From day one of me keeping Ts, around six years ago. I bought an adult female C. Marshalli and a juvenile P. Chordatus. The only previous experience I had with Ts was getting haired by a A. geniculata that a friend of mine kept. I wanted to avoid those nasty hairs so getting a NW was out of the question.

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## owlbear (Jun 14, 2015)

Sam_Peanuts said:


> Personally, I never had to ask myself that question.
> 
> I got an OBT as my second tarantula back when I knew next to nothing about them. All I knew was that she was more aggressive than my rosea.
> I respected that and was always careful with her and never really had a problem(she did run away when I rehoused her in her first enclosure, but catching her wasn't a problem and I didn't stop to admire her before closing the lid the second time) so when I leaned more about them, I knew I wouldn't have much problem taking care of any of them.
> ...


Man, that's a heck of an introduction to OW. I'd like an OBT someday myself. It's good to hear that a calm demeanor helps - I keep reptiles, some of which are super fast and flighty, some of which are very aggressive. So I'm also very calm whenever I work with my pets - which has been handy the two times I've had slings make a run for it. 

Thanks everyone chiming in. It's interesting to read all the different ways people started with the OW species.


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## MrsHaas (Jun 14, 2015)

I think my first ows were a p regalis and an m balfouri, a good friend of mine who is also a hobbiest took the time to introduce me to them and we chatted several times for hours about it until I felt I had a prett good grasp on what I was getting into.  I also did tons of research.  I think starting with some more advanced nw species helped as well.  But trust your gut is my main advice.  When you feel ready, provided you have the key knowledge, you likely are.

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## just1moreT (Jun 14, 2015)

I never knew I wasn't ready for an OW back in the day.

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## lmactans (Jun 14, 2015)

About six months after I got my first tarantula, a B. smithi. I'd been working with TONS (hundreds) of baby tarantulas, both old world and new, at a local breeder. They were AWESOME, and taught me to never let my guard down around any of them, and showed me how they work with their OW collection. I also got a P. cambridgei a few months before I got my first OW, and this spider has given me more trouble than any of my OWs, but she is a different story for a different thread. 
I also opted to get my OWs as slings, so that I can kinda grow with them. My first OW was P. regalis, and I now have P. regalis, P. murinus, and H. maculata. They're all little angels, so I'm just waiting for them to show their true colors, so to speak.

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## cold blood (Jun 14, 2015)

You know you're ready when you have enough confidence that you don't need to ask or wonder.


IMO, if you blindly skipped right to ow, your answer to the op's question are not relevant to the question being asked.

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## owlbear (Jun 14, 2015)

cold blood said:


> You know you're ready when you have enough confidence that you don't need to ask or wonder.
> 
> 
> IMO, if you blindly skipped right to ow, your answer to the op's question are not relevant to the question being asked.


Heh! That's how I knew I was ready to work with retics. There have been zero surprises - I already knew what sort of temperaments and body language to expect, what nuances they can have, how to handle cage aggression and hook training... suffice to say, this is a really good answer, in my own limited experience.

As far as folks answering - it's true that those answers aren't especially relevant, but I am still enjoying reading them. I guess I just like hearing about people's experiences with their tarantulas really.



MrsHaas said:


> I think my first ows were a p regalis and an m balfouri, a good friend of mine who is also a hobbiest took the time to introduce me to them and we chatted several times for hours about it until I felt I had a prett good grasp on what I was getting into.  I also did tons of research.  I think starting with some more advanced nw species helped as well.  But trust your gut is my main advice.  When you feel ready, provided you have the key knowledge, you likely are.


m. balfouri is definitely a dream OW of mine. That's probably what I'll start with when the time comes, as I hear they are pretty docile comparatively, and so so beautiful.

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## cold blood (Jun 14, 2015)

owlbear said:


> As far as folks answering - it's true that those answers aren't especially relevant, but I am still enjoying reading them. I guess I just like hearing about people's experiences with their tarantulas really.


No doubt, I agree...I wasn't trying to take shots at anyone.:smile:


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## owlbear (Jun 14, 2015)

cold blood said:


> No doubt, I agree...I wasn't trying to take shots at anyone.:smile:


Oh I didn't figure! But I wanted to encourage folks to post regardless.


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## Roosterbomb (Jun 14, 2015)

When I first got into Ts I expected to never get an OW as people had me worried that I would be dealing with demons. I was also reluctant to get certain NWs due to the demon stigma. Well as it turns out my first T is a little buthole and I've been dealing with a crazy p Scrofa thinking this was what was considered a mellow T. I got my first OW not long ago (h villosella) and I was absolutely floored by the speed. Now I think of how I would feel if my Aurutum moved like my villosella and wonder if I want to expand my old world and the answer is yes. So I figure I'm ready. I guess if you can go for a while with no jackass mistakes you should get an OW. By mistakes I mean putting your hand in "just real quick" leaving the top open w/o eyes on it for a "quick sec" and other little things like not checking an enclosure before opening it or not making sure a catch cup is always close when dealing with your Ts. My rule was 1 year cold as ice and cut it short when I realized my habits were where I wanted them to be. That's what I did


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## pyro fiend (Jun 14, 2015)

cold blood said:


> You know you're ready when you have enough confidence that you don't need to ask or wonder.


hah this sounds oddly familiar to what a friend said the other day when somone asked "how do i know when i can work with a cobra"  his reply was "when you feel confident enough to walk through your rat room naked and grab all your feeders one by one then rehome your snakes for feeding, with no fear of being bit in the bits" XD  but i like your version better

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## Chris LXXIX (Jun 14, 2015)

"When did you know you were ready for OW?"

When a man was put in a "Me, or your T's!" situation by his woman, i ended up receiving for free his three T's and enclosures. AF _Megaphobema robustum_, AF _Brachypelma albopilosum_, supposed AF _Chilobrachys fimbriatus_ "turned" male, after a molt check.


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## owlbear (Jun 14, 2015)

Chris LXXIX said:


> "When did you know you were ready for OW?"
> 
> When a man was put in a "Me, or your T's!" situation by his woman, i ended up receiving for free his three T's and enclosures. AF _Megaphobema robustum_, AF _Brachypelma albopilosum_, supposed AF _Chilobrachys fimbriatus_ "turned" male, after a molt check.


Tragic situation! But oh man, m. robustum...! Lucky lucky.



Roosterbomb said:


> When I first got into Ts I expected to never get an OW as people had me worried that I would be dealing with demons. I was also reluctant to get certain NWs due to the demon stigma. Well as it turns out my first T is a little buthole and I've been dealing with a crazy p Scrofa thinking this was what was considered a mellow T. I got my first OW not long ago (h villosella) and I was absolutely floored by the speed. Now I think of how I would feel if my Aurutum moved like my villosella and wonder if I want to expand my old world and the answer is yes. So I figure I'm ready. I guess if you can go for a while with no jackass mistakes you should get an OW. By mistakes I mean putting your hand in "just real quick" leaving the top open w/o eyes on it for a "quick sec" and other little things like not checking an enclosure before opening it or not making sure a catch cup is always close when dealing with your Ts. My rule was 1 year cold as ice and cut it short when I realized my habits were where I wanted them to be. That's what I did


H. villosella are so lovely, haha. My hapalopus sp. Columbia is honestly my most aggressive t so far, which was unexpected! Everything I read said they are relatively easy going. Mine likes to leap at my feeding tongs and attack them (nevermind the big fat dubia I dropped in, goofy spider), races around the enclosure like a demon, throw threat displays when I get in to remove boluses... I still love the little thing though. It's kinda fun having one with so much flair for drama. 

Definitely agree to all your practices though. I started with all slings so I would have plenty of time to really get a feel for their care and maintenance. Seeing them molt, web and otherwise personalize their little homes is so rewarding.

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## Chris LXXIX (Jun 14, 2015)

Indeed. Sometimes i think: "What if that man had a huge collection of 100+ T's like some users here have?" ah ah. Joking. I mean, i saved him. 
He isn't "single" today, and he was never bitten by a T (he was not even a beginner, but only one who bought three T's for being "cool").

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## owlbear (Jun 14, 2015)

Chris LXXIX said:


> Indeed. Sometimes i think: "What if that man had a huge collection of 100+ T's like some users here have?" ah ah. Joking. I mean, i saved him.
> He isn't "single" today, and he was never bitten by a T (he was not even a beginner, but only one who bought three T's for being "cool").


Urgh, that mindset bothers me so much. It's especially prevalent in the big snake communities. Monitors too - I feel like 90% of monitors sold end up being shuffled from home to home for the rest of their lives. At least tarantulas are easier to keep.

How are his 3 doing at this point? Also if you have pics of that m robustum posted somewhere I'd love to see!


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## Sana (Jun 14, 2015)

I was ready for an OW when I stopped wondering if I was ready.  The realizations that lead me to feel confident with any tarantula was that they aren't aggressive.  They are simply defending themselves against a giant creature that they feel is threatening them.

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## z32upgrader (Jun 14, 2015)

Got my first OW in a spider raffle.  It was a P. miranda sling that turned out to be female.  A more experienced keeper assured me I'd be fine since only owned an A. chalcodes and a G. pulchripes.  It was no sweat.  I knew I was in charge of the situation.  She's still with me and 4.5" now.

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## awiec (Jun 14, 2015)

owlbear said:


> Tragic situation! But oh man, m. robustum...! Lucky lucky.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My male H.sp Columbia was a terror, always trying to bolt out and biting at things. When I shipped him out to his new owner the little bugger tried to run onto my ceiling, I coaxed him back to a deli before things got out of hand but he tried to bite and kicked everywhere in the 5 minutes I took to get him into his shipping vials. 

As for when you're ready, really you stop asking others "Am I ready?" you just know...with reasonable time spent with other tarantulas. Someone who has had a NW for 3 months is probably not ready no matter how they feel. Granted we come in with different skills, I worked with true spiders for years, some of us have had venomous reptiles and others have no experience with fast wild animals what so ever, so we all grow at our own pace

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## Radium (Jun 15, 2015)

Chris LXXIX said:


> Indeed. Sometimes i think: "What if that man had a huge collection of 100+ T's like some users here have?" ah ah. Joking. I mean, i saved him.
> He isn't "single" today, and he was never bitten by a T (he was not even a beginner, but only one who bought three T's for being "cool").


I was going to say "wow, the snu snu must have been off the wall," but yeah. You certainly did those Ts a favor.


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## Ultum4Spiderz (Jun 15, 2015)

OW have always been easier for me since they do not kick hairs, I can always predict them to run or bite. I like OW Ts best, but some NW are better display Ts,.

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## widowkeeper (Jun 15, 2015)

I think I was born ready, it was not my first second or even 20th that was anything special it wasn't until I found ab that I was able to get more then what I could talk the local petshop into getting me. my first order from here was 4 adult obt 3 adult lividum and a pair of greater horns and one h mack  and several slings of various others. my first real risky t wasn't a t it was a black widow and I was 5 or 6 kept it in a bottle on my window it wasn't the rattle snake I had set out to find but it was enough to start a life long love of the hobby. i never got my rattle snake it wasn't until I had kids that I had the chance to own one but I couldn't justify bringing one into my home.

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## Anubis77 (Jun 15, 2015)

After I bought my G. pulchripes and kept it for a few months. Then again, I'd already been keeping Centruroides sculpturatus and raising buttloads of widows; their speed's not comparable, but the approach to potential envenomation is. First online order included a Haplopelma lividum, Poecilotheria regalis and Pterinochilus murinus along with some fiesty NWs. 3" H. lividum ran up my hand as I was unpacking it. Fun and educational experience that I wouldn't recommend for newbies. A year after that, I didn't really think twice about getting OWs. Never really had any issues. I've only been bitten by an A. chalcodes, but I grew complacent at catching wild males on roads. Still not complacent around any OWs, but I'm not nervous about rehousing them. 



widowkeeper said:


> I think I was born ready, it was not my first second or even 20th that was anything special it wasn't until I found ab that I was able to get more then what I could talk the local petshop into getting me. my first order from here was 4 adult obt 3 adult lividum and a pair of greater horns and one h mack  and several slings of various others. my first real risky t wasn't a t it was a black widow and I was 5 or 6 kept it in a bottle on my window it wasn't the rattle snake I had set out to find but it was enough to start a life long love of the hobby. i never got my rattle snake it wasn't until I had kids that I had the chance to own one but I couldn't justify bringing one into my home.


Depending on what you want out of a snake, you didn't miss out on much. You can get the same experience with a lot of non- or mildly venomous snakes. I kept one some years ago in Arizona. Setting up enclosures, trap boxes and the husbandry in general is satisfying, but they're inactive snakes. If I ever do venomous again, I'd stick with Boiga. Would love C. cerastes, but California tells me no. Pursuing permits isn't appealing to me.


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## Angel Minkov (Jun 15, 2015)

cold blood said:


> You know you're ready when you have enough confidence that you don't need to ask or wonder.
> 
> 
> IMO, if you blindly skipped right to ow, your answer to the op's question are not relevant to the question being asked.


Saying that is a bit... Unnecessary, dont you think? Not everybody likes the ladder system, like myself. Didnt want or need it.  I think the most important thing is trying to learn your Ts patterns and be respectful. 8 months ago I had only a vagans and striatipes, now I have 20 species, 18 of which OW and Im going strong with an upcoming order of about 5 more species and 10+ spiders. I get what youre saying, but someone may not and thats when it gets unpleasant.

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## lalberts9310 (Jun 15, 2015)

P. Irminia MM, who is the spawn of satan itself (maybe even satan itself), defensive and skittish as hell. He'll strike at anything, he'll run up anything and he'll give me a threat pose with the slightes disturbance or movement, he never hesitated attacking the thongs and never hesitated to bolt out the enclosure afterwards.. after experiencing him bolt up my arm and up my back a few times during cage maintenance, being calm and patient and able to get the spider back in the cage without getting tagged that few times made me realize that I'm ready for an OW (and he never retreated he always bolted out of the enclosure or up my tongs if given that chance)... I also had experience with psalmos for more than a year.. so I went to the LPS where I picked up a T I had my eyes set on for a long time, a beautiful 5" P. Fasciata female.. and she has been a sweetheart thus far, a little skittish and photophobic, but never gave me a threat display as of yet, not even during rehousing, after that a got more OWs but slings, 3 C. sp. Hati hati and 1 O. sp. Blue, never encountered problems, my fasciata is a lot more co-operative during maintenance than my MM P. Irminia

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## Poec54 (Jun 15, 2015)

I had NW's for several years before my first OW.  They were rarely available back then (1970's).  I'm a strong advocate for going in stages.  I'm fully aware that some have gotten OW's early in the process and that it's worked out, but for most people that's a poor way to do things.  In this world of immediate gratification, some people want to start at the top without the skill and experience they should have.  That doesn't always mix well with all of the fast/defensive species currently in the hobby, combined with a political/legal environment that can shut us down without ever asking our opinion.  

What some overlook is that it's not all about them and what they want.  It also involves the people they live with and the hobby's future: many exotic pets have been banned locally and nationally.  Do we want to find out what the limit is for the public's tolerance of large foreign spiders?  The hobby's popularity is a two-edged sword: we have an abundance of species and info, along with a renewed interest from taxonomists, but at the same time among today's tarantula owners are some short-timers in it for a thrill who have little regard for the damage they could leave behind.

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## HungryGhost (Jun 15, 2015)

More importantly for me than knowing if "I'm ready", is knowing if "I'm not ready". I'm not ready. It's a gut thing for me.


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## TownesVanZandt (Jun 15, 2015)

Poec54, I don´t mean to be argumentative for the sake of it and I highly regard your knowledge and opinion, but on the need of keeping Ts in stages we simply have different attitudes  The way I see it there is no "bottom" or "top" when it comes to keeping Ts. All there is, is a lot of different species (each with different characteristics, temperaments, attributes etc.) and choosing what to keep is more a question about preference and interest. People should avoid species they are not comfortable with the idea of keeping.Everyone, yourself included, keeps pets because it gives them some sort of individual gratification. 

The reason to why I think it is important to articulate my view on this subject is simply because I think I would have been put off keeping Ts altogether if I had found this forum six years ago and asked whether I should get my C. marshalli as my first spider or not. Luckily I didn´t ask for anyones advice or approval on this matter, but I did my research and even when I was novice keeper dealing with an adult OW I didn´t practice any sort of "gonzo keeping" that could have put others, the hobby, myself or the spiders in any danger. I don´t think this was due to blind luck or me being a particular good keeper. Being vigilant, using common sense and practicing precaution does the trick with almost any species.

That being said, I fully agree that people ought to keep Ts responsibly and I believe this forum is of great help to people looking for advice on how to do this. You can never completely eliminate the risk of keepers having accidents, but by proper housing and precaution you can reduce this risk to a minimum. If proper care is taken, I would go as far as to say that you can easily eliminate all but the hypothetical and highly unlikely risks of a tarantula actually biting anyone except the person that is actively doing the cage maintenance and rehousing of the spiders. Sadly enough, there will always be some people that enters a pet shop, buys an OBT and exits with no clue of how to keep it. For the future of this hobby, we should hope that most sellers are responsible and actually informs their customers about the risks involved.

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## donniedark0 (Jun 15, 2015)

I have been keeping Ts for a number of years and I'm still not ready. I think it's more of a confidence and instinct deal when deciding. I still get startled and get pretty nervous when they get all skittish and jumpy lol. Maybe one of these days

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## Chainsaw Reptiles (Jun 15, 2015)

When I got bit by a highly defensive lasidora parahybana 



-Chainsawreptiles ~Tom


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## Chris LXXIX (Jun 15, 2015)

owlbear said:


> Urgh, that mindset bothers me so much. It's especially prevalent in the big snake communities. Monitors too - I feel like 90% of monitors sold end up being shuffled from home to home for the rest of their lives. At least tarantulas are easier to keep.
> 
> How are his 3 doing at this point? Also if you have pics of that m robustum posted somewhere I'd love to see!


They are fine, two molted months ago... _Megaphobema robustum_ on the way now too i guess (she is in her closed by web burrow from weeks). No, i don't have... because i have a no pics policy for the internet 

---------- Post added 06-15-2015 at 09:04 AM ----------




Poec54 said:


> I had NW's for several years before my first OW.  They were rarely available back then (1970's).  I'm a strong advocate for going in stages.  I'm fully aware that some have gotten OW's early in the process and that it's worked out, but for most people that's a poor way to do things.  In this world of immediate gratification, some people want to start at the top without the skill and experience they should have.  That doesn't always mix well with all of fast/defensive species currently in the hobby, combined with a political/legal environment that can shut us down without ever asking our opinion.
> 
> What some overlook is that it's not all about them and what they want.  It also involves the people they live with and the hobby's future: many exotic pets have been banned locally and nationally.  Do we want to find out what the limit is for the public's tolerance of large foreign spiders?  The hobby's popularity is a two-edged sword: we have an abundance of species and info, along with a renewed interest from taxonomists, but at the same time among today's tarantula owners are some short-timers in it for a thrill who have little regard for the damage they could leave behind.


The truth. Hobby have a sword of Damocles over the head. Things go viral in the selfie "i'm cool than you" voyeuristic, fake, internet world. My opinions are unpopular, but i stick with mines.
Keepers should put themselves an honest limit about certain species before others would do that for them, completely, or partially. 
Lately, _Sicarius hahni_ are everywhere. They are not defensive, not a "bite in your face" like _Pterinochilus murinus_, but we don't know exactly how much their venom can devastate a man. I have talked with a European guy in YT that told me that his sand spider was his third, after two normal, NW hairy T's.
I have saw in a European online shop, _Phoneutria_ sp. and _Macrothele_ sp. as well.
I highly doubt that online will prevail "Ethics questions, experience level" instead of "Cash". Anyway, a bite from those have the power to ruin the hobby, or castrate it (example, no more OW'S or stuff).
Not even damn worth a minute a scenario that can put serious keepers at risk lose their right to have _Poecilotheria_ sp. or Baboon T's just because "certain" spiders and Mygalomorphae are sold to the wrong people. Some sellers are just idiots. Some "hot" spiders and some "hot" _Mygalomorphae_ doesn't be available in the hobby, or at least online.

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## BobGrill (Jun 15, 2015)

Angel Minkov said:


> Saying that is a bit... Unnecessary, dont you think? Not everybody likes the ladder system, like myself. Didnt want or need it.  I think the most important thing is trying to learn your Ts patterns and be respectful. 8 months ago I had only a vagans and striatipes, now I have 20 species, 18 of which OW and Im going strong with an upcoming order of about 5 more species and 10+ spiders. I get what youre saying, but someone may not and thats when it gets unpleasant.


How is it unnecessary? ? He wasn't being rude at all, just blunt and honest. That's how you have to be to get through to certain people here. Using the ladder system is no doubt the safest way to go. Isn't that what every tarantula keeper's number one priority should be? Safety for both them and the spider? Fact: Old worlds are a lot more unpredictable than most New World species. They also have more powerful venom.  That combined with speed is a recipe for disaster for someone with little to no experience. I just don't get what the rush is. Also what worked for you probably won't work for the majority of people. 

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk

---------- Post added 06-15-2015 at 10:33 AM ----------




Chainsaw Reptiles said:


> When I got bit by a highly defensive lasidora parahybana
> 
> 
> 
> -Chainsawreptiles ~Tom


Sure, makes total sense...

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk

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## Misty Day (Jun 15, 2015)

Chainsaw Reptiles said:


> When I got bit by a highly defensive lasidora parahybana
> 
> 
> 
> -Chainsawreptiles ~Tom


A "highly defensive", as you put it, LP is nothing compared to say a highly defensive _Poecilotheria, Chilobrachys, Lampropelma_ or any other OW for that matter. It sounds like the opposite for me that you'd be ready after that. If you manage to get bit by an LP, it sounds like it would be easier for you for you to be bit by an OW.

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## BobGrill (Jun 15, 2015)

Misty Day said:


> A "highly defensive", as you put it, LP is nothing compared to say a highly defensive _Poecilotheria, Chilobrachys, Lampropelma_ or any other OW for that matter. It sounds like the opposite for me that you'd be ready after that. If you manage to get bit by an LP, it sounds like it would be easier for you for you to be bit by an OW.


I'm guessing you're new to the forum?  I wouldn't take anything he says seriously or even bother replying to him for that matter. He likes to troll a lot as well.

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk

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## Poec54 (Jun 15, 2015)

BobGrill said:


> How is it unnecessary? ? He wasn't being rude at all, just blunt and honest. That's how you have to be to get through to certain people here. Using the ladder system is no doubt the safest way to go. Isn't that what every tarantula keeper's number one priority should be? Safety for both them and the spider? Fact: Old worlds are a lot more unpredictable than most New World species. They also have more powerful venom.  That combined with speed is a recipe for disaster for someone with little to no experience. I just don't get what the rush is. Also what worked for you probably won't work for the majority of people.


+1.  Lacking the substantial benefits of urticating hairs, OW's rely on several other strategies to survive encounters with predators:

- standing up and confronting intruders
- stronger venoms, and hanging on or giving multiple bites
- unpredictable high speeds dashes, often preceded by them initially being motionless.  

Very few beginners are prepared to deal with this.  Online research is no substitute for experience.  Reading about it is nothing like the actual thing: having a defensive spider dash out of it's cage, up your arm and on your back.

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## Ghost Dragon (Jun 15, 2015)

I guess it's whenever you FEEL ready, owlbear.  I had my _P. irminia _for 6 months before ordering my first OW, a batch of 5 _P. regalis _slings.  I will say that the irminia was a great learning experience on my way to OW's, getting use to its speed.


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## TownesVanZandt (Jun 15, 2015)

Poec54 said:


> Reading about it is nothing like the actual thing: having a defensive spider dash out of it's cage, up your arm and on your back.


Has this ever happened to you or anyone you know? To me this seems almost as unlikely as getting urticating hairs in your eyes and develop eye problems.

---------- Post added 06-15-2015 at 10:27 AM ----------




BobGrill said:


> How is it unnecessary? ? He wasn't being rude at all, just blunt and honest. That's how you have to be to get through to certain people here.
> 
> Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk


cold bloods comment came just after I had told about my experience and was (as I took it), indirectly directed at me. I took it as a bit rude, but it might be some cultural differences at play here. Anyways, it is not a big deal


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## BobGrill (Jun 15, 2015)

TownesVanZandt said:


> Has this ever happened to you or anyone you know? To me this seems almost as unlikely as getting urticating hairs in your eyes and develop eye problems.
> 
> ---------- Post added 06-15-2015 at 10:27 AM ----------
> 
> ...


Poec has actually mentioned having a pokie run down his shirt one time if I'm remembering correctly.  I'll wait for him to chime in though.

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk

Reactions: Like 1


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## Chris LXXIX (Jun 15, 2015)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKFmBjocnhc
How much stupid someone can be? Too much wrong people inside this hobby. 
Not to mention those miserables few cm of substrate they prepared for an _Haplopelma lividum_. For what reason this can't happen with some "hot" and shut the hobby?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Misty Day (Jun 15, 2015)

BobGrill said:


> I'm guessing you're new to the forum?  I wouldn't take anything he says seriously or even bother replying to him for that matter. He likes to troll a lot as well.
> 
> Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk


I'm not new actually. I understand he's a troll & that he lies a lot. I'm just trying to protect any newbs who click onto this thread without knowing him and actually taking his advice.

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## BobGrill (Jun 15, 2015)

Misty Day said:


> I'm not new actually. I understand he's a troll & that he lies a lot. I'm just trying to protect any newbs who click onto this thread without knowing him and actually taking his advice.


Good thinking lol. Just wanted to make sure.

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk

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## TownesVanZandt (Jun 15, 2015)

Chris LXXIX said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKFmBjocnhc
> How much stupid someone can be? Too much wrong people inside this hobby.
> Not to mention those miserables few cm of substrate they prepared for an _Haplopelma lividum_. For what reason this can't happen with some "hot" and shut the hobby?


Wow, this is a great example of how not to keep or interact with Ts. I guess some people just sets their pride in being reckless and uninformed.


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## Chainsaw Reptiles (Jun 15, 2015)

9 Years Of OW's And No Bites Yet


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## BobGrill (Jun 15, 2015)

Chainsaw Reptiles said:


> 9 Years Of OW's And No Bites Yet


Aren't you like 14 or 15? So you've been keeping OWs since you were 5? Are you even trying anymore?

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk

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## vespers (Jun 15, 2015)

Chainsaw Reptiles said:


> 9 Years Of OW's And No Bites Yet


More BS...you claim you're 15 in this post:
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?101718-Introduce-Yourself&p=2347417#post2347417

Yet in this post you say you got your first T when you were 9:
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/sho...od-Intermediate-species&p=2347118#post2347118

In this one you claim you have 12 years T keeping experience:
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?271396-Keeper-experience-levels&p=2348379#post2348379

You couldn't tell the truth if your life depended on it.

Reactions: Like 9


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## Methal (Jun 15, 2015)

2 days after I got my first T. Figured it wouldn't kill me, and if I did something stupid I'd get bit and wouldn't do it again.


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## Storm76 (Jun 15, 2015)

Methal said:


> 2 days after I got my first T. Figured it wouldn't kill me, and if I did something stupid I'd get bit and wouldn't do it again.


...leaving out of that acquasion the possible impact on the hobby. That's exactly the kind of mindset I don't get - ever. Sorry.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Misty Day (Jun 15, 2015)

Chainsaw Reptiles said:


> 9 Years Of OW's And No Bites Yet


I highly doubt you were handling ANY tarantula at 5, never mind OWs.




vespers said:


> Yet in this post you say you got your first T when you were 9:
> http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/sho...od-Intermediate-species&p=2347118#post2347118



Also, you say "My First T I Got When I Was 9 I Think... And It Was A Curly Hair And I Stuck To Things Like that Until I Was 13 ", so you went from one NW t, to 176 OW & NWs in 2 years?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Roosterbomb (Jun 15, 2015)

When I was a baby I had a stuffed spider.

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## cold blood (Jun 15, 2015)

TownesVanZandt said:


> cold bloods comment came just after I had told about my experience and was (as I took it), indirectly directed at me. I took it as a bit rude, but it might be some cultural differences at play here. Anyways, it is not a big deal


Hey Mr. thin skin:laugh:, it wasn't directed at anyone, I even made a point to follow the post up with another stating SPECIFICALLY that I was NOT taking shots at anyone.

Definitely not a big deal, I have no animosity towards you or any other posters

Reactions: Like 3


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## Storm76 (Jun 15, 2015)

cold blood said:


> Definitely not a big deal, I have no animosity towards you or any other posters


Liar! You always poke me with the "natural" and "unnatural" when it comes to A. geniculata habitat!  j/k

Reactions: Like 2


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## Poec54 (Jun 15, 2015)

TownesVanZandt said:


> Has this ever happened to you or anyone you know? To me this seems almost as unlikely as getting urticating hairs in your eyes and develop eye problems


You haven't been around long if you don't think this is possible.  During cage transfers I've had juveniles Poecs (2-3"):

- run up my arm and on my back
- run up my stomach and inside my button-down shirt
- run down my leg and then up inside my pant leg

In each case I've had to remove clothing in the middle of the room and carefully search for the hidden spider.  Yes, I have a lot of Poecs and do a lot of cage transfers, breeding, and packing/unpacking with them, but then I got my first Poec almost 20 years ago, so I have a lot more experience with them than most people in the hobby.  I used to have a large collection of cobras so I don't panic when a spider's running around.  The average person probably won't stay calm with a tarantula on the back of their shirt or inside it.

Reactions: Like 5


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## cold blood (Jun 15, 2015)

Storm76 said:


> Liar! You always poke me with the "natural" and "unnatural" when it comes to A. geniculata habitat!  j/k


You're awesome Jan!!

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## Misty Day (Jun 15, 2015)

Poec54 said:


> I got my first Poec almost 20 years ago


Just out of curiosity, what was your first Poec? And how much generally would they go for? Am I right in assuming that they went for a lot back then?


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## Poec54 (Jun 15, 2015)

Misty Day said:


> Just out of curiosity, what was your first Poec? And how much generally would they go for? Am I right in assuming that they went for a lot back then?



I saw my first Poecs at a reptile dealer in Fort Myers, Glades Herp in the mid 1990's who had brought them in from Europe; 1 regalis and 1 fasciata, both subadults, and the price was $150 each.  At that time the most expensive tarantulas I'd seen were half that, so $150 seemed outrageous for the time.  But they were so unlike any other spider, I had to figure out a way to afford some.  I started breeding the OW terrestrial w/c's I had, and would trade a bunch of them to a dealer for a few Poec slings.  Eventually I had some Poecs mature and bred them myself.  By 2000 I had regalis, ornata, fasciata, subfusca, and formosa (and got sacs from the first two).  There was another Poec species or two floating around the US back then.

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## MrDave (Jun 15, 2015)

Methal said:


> 2 days after I got my first T. Figured it wouldn't kill me, and if I did something stupid I'd get bit and wouldn't do it again.


I presume you have longer tongs now. In reply to another post I was going to link your epic threadhere. That thread is a must read for anyone asking themselves if they're ready for OW's. I'm not sure how long you had your OBT before it got you, but you definitely got the required OW experience the hard way.

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## jclyde13 (Jun 15, 2015)

MrDave said:


> I presume you have longer tongs now. In reply to another post I was going to link your epic threadhere. That thread is a must read for anyone asking themselves if they're ready for OW's. I'm not sure how long you had your OBT before it got you, but you definitely got the required OW experience the hard way.


The first place I ever heard of OBT's was actually on this list of the "top 10 beginner tarantulas." http://tarantulakeeper.blogspot.com/2008/12/top-10-beginners-tarantulas.html

Cruel joke, or just terrible advice?

Honestly though, with full disclosure that I am a total newb when it comes to spiders, and nearly all of my present knowledge about them consists of what I have read on forums and care sheets, so my opinion does not carry much weight, I do feel that a lot of the sentiments regarding OWs around here seem grossly exaggerated. I understand that it is largely an issue of preserving the hobby; I've been in the fishkeeping hobby for something like 17 years, so I know all too well how much stupid beginners can ruin a hobby (with federal and state bans on piranhas, snakeheads, walking catfish, freshwater rays, etc. resulting from the stupid decisions of irresponsible novices, paired with knee jerk reactions from the general public and politicians), but there seems to be a failure to acknowledge that all hobbyists (in any particular hobby) are not created equal. There are things that some will inevitably be more equipped than others to handle early on. What one person might have to learn the hard way over the course of years (like practicing due caution while doing any sort of maintenance, or keeping a level head during situations like those that Poec54 brought up), another person might pick up on very quickly and avoid many or all of the typical mistakes from the start. If you know what you're getting into, you've done your research, and you are responsible and level-headed enough to handle it, I just don't see what would prevent you from properly caring for the species you want.


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## TownesVanZandt (Jun 15, 2015)

cold blood said:


> Hey Mr. thin skin:laugh:, it wasn't directed at anyone, I even made a point to follow the post up with another stating SPECIFICALLY that I was NOT taking shots at anyone.
> 
> Definitely not a big deal, I have no animosity towards you or any other posters


I´m from Europe, so you cannot expect me to be especially docile. I am skittish and highly defensive when I leave my burrow to roam around the forum at night

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## Ultum4Spiderz (Jun 15, 2015)

Chainsaw Reptiles said:


> 9 Years Of OW's And No Bites Yet


Out of all my Ts so far only got bitten by NW once. A anax female very defensive when disturbed,...


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## Chris LXXIX (Jun 15, 2015)

TownesVanZandt said:


> I´m from Europe, so you cannot expect me to be especially docile. I am skittish and highly defensive when I leave my burrow to roam around the forum at night


Ah ah, true, but you have a NW username


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## Ultum4Spiderz (Jun 15, 2015)

Chris LXXIX said:


> Ah ah, true, but you have a NW username


Yeah I knew it NW are actually In my personal opinion more aggressive due to hair kicking. Since they kick hairs & bite there not afraid of me:cry:. I guess your more agresssive T more or less depends on its personality not NW , or OW. I do not advice handling any T though, except during escapes/rehousing (CATCH CUP is best).:biggrin:


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## Angel Minkov (Jun 16, 2015)

Poec54 said:


> I had NW's for several years before my first OW.  They were rarely available back then (1970's).  I'm a strong advocate for going in stages.  I'm fully aware that some have gotten OW's early in the process and that it's worked out, but for most people that's a poor way to do things.  In this world of immediate gratification, some people want to start at the top without the skill and experience they should have.  That doesn't always mix well with all of the fast/defensive species currently in the hobby, combined with a political/legal environment that can shut us down without ever asking our opinion.
> 
> What some overlook is that it's not all about them and what they want.  It also involves the people they live with and the hobby's future: many exotic pets have been banned locally and nationally.  Do we want to find out what the limit is for the public's tolerance of large foreign spiders?  The hobby's popularity is a two-edged sword: we have an abundance of species and info, along with a renewed interest from taxonomists, but at the same time among today's tarantula owners are some short-timers in it for a thrill who have little regard for the damage they could leave behind.


I completely agree with everything stated above. Especially the part where some short-term keepers do harm to the hobby. For example, I have to constantly deal with an idiot from my country. He holds his regalis, yesterday his Hysterocrates hercules male matured and he was searching for ANY species of Hysterocrates for pairing just because he didnt want his T to die "a virgin". I have to deal with these types of people all the time.


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## Storm76 (Jun 16, 2015)

Angel Minkov said:


> For example, I have to constantly deal with an idiot from my country. He holds his regalis, yesterday his Hysterocrates hercules male matured and he was searching for ANY species of Hysterocrates for pairing just because he didnt want his T to die "a virgin". I have to deal with these types of people all the time.


Are you serious? That's nuts!


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## Angel Minkov (Jun 16, 2015)

Completely... Recently some guy was advocating P. subfusca hybridization, stating they're different species, basing his opinion on a topic on some forum and a paper from 2013.  Ii talked to Mr. Smith,  the person who described a few of the genus, he said recent DNA tests show they're close, but no the same, like formosa and tigrina. He then wanted pics of the chat, I obliged and then he said I'm not speaking with the real one. The hobby here is garbage. People think they know everything and are at the same level since 2008.

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## lalberts9310 (Jun 16, 2015)

Angel Minkov said:


> I completely agree with everything stated above. Especially the part where some short-term keepers do harm to the hobby. For example, I have to constantly deal with an idiot from my country. He holds his regalis, yesterday his Hysterocrates hercules male matured and he was searching for ANY species of Hysterocrates for pairing just because he didnt want his T to die "a virgin". I have to deal with these types of people all the time.


What the hell!? Idiots like that should really not own any tarantula, I really really hope he doesn't get hold of a hysterocrates female


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## pyro fiend (Jun 16, 2015)

lalberts9310 said:


> What the hell!? Idiots like that should really not own any tarantula, I really really hope he doesn't get hold of a hysterocrates female


is it bad i hope that guys mm keels over before he gets any action? =\

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## Angel Minkov (Jun 16, 2015)

Guy A, aka the idiot also leaves Bulgaria every summer and goes to Russia for 3 months and leaves his Ts on their own. He throws in some roaches, soaks the cages and whatever god gives.


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## lalberts9310 (Jun 16, 2015)

*facepalm*

---------- Post added 06-16-2015 at 12:16 PM ----------




pyro fiend said:


> is it bad i hope that guys mm keels over before he gets any action? =\


 yeah, he really shouldn't be owning any tarantulas


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## pyro fiend (Jun 16, 2015)

lalberts9310 said:


> *facepalm*
> 
> ---------- Post added 06-16-2015 at 12:16 PM ----------
> 
> yeah, he really shouldn't be owning any tarantulas


at all... he needs a pet rock..


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## Tim Benzedrine (Jun 16, 2015)

Nah, I don't think he should be keeping G. rosea either...


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## pyro fiend (Jun 16, 2015)

Tim Benzedrine said:


> Nah, I don't think he should be keeping G. rosea either...


No i ment the real stone, not the Ts xD

Side note OMG TIM UR ALIVE!i was about to send out a search party lol


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## scott99 (Jun 21, 2015)

This thread is good, we should keep it going.


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## owlbear (Jun 21, 2015)

Indeed! I haven't had much time to reply but I am still reading what everyone says. It's a really nice thread so far.

Also, it was time to rehouse my p. irminia recently and I did so with the utmost caution, prepared for the worst... instead she dove into a chamber like part of her dirt curtain, which I was able to simply pluck out and set into her new enclosure. She gladly incorporated it into a new dirt curtain. I can't say I'm too upset over the lack of a 'learning experience.'

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## scott99 (Jun 23, 2015)

I think this thread should always be keep going, because their are always beginners trying to get OW. If this thread keep going then hopefully it wil educate beginners hobbyist about OW.


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## Angel Minkov (Jun 23, 2015)

OW and beginners don't really add-up. Beginners will easily get startled and panic. Personally, I was ready for an OW when I wasn't startled from bolting/threat postures anymore. Went up and got a P. regalis straight-up. Then got more Pokies, M. balfouri, Cyriopagopus spp. All this happened 11 months ago and now my collection consists of around 15 OW and several NW species. I dislike NWs, because they are boring, in my opinion (e.g most Brachypelma, Euathlus, most Grammostolas etc), but I love some species like C. elegans, X. immanis, some Pamphs.


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## awiec (Jun 23, 2015)

Angel Minkov said:


> OW and beginners don't really add-up. Beginners will easily get startled and panic. Personally, I was ready for an OW when I wasn't startled from bolting/threat postures anymore. Went up and got a P. regalis straight-up. Then got more Pokies, M. balfouri, Cyriopagopus spp. All this happened 11 months ago and now my collection consists of around 15 OW and several NW species. I dislike NWs, because they are boring, in my opinion (e.g most Brachypelma, Euathlus, most Grammostolas etc), but I love some species like C. elegans, X. immanis, some Pamphs.


Though that's why this hobby is great, there is a spider for everyone. Not everyone wants a high strung OW but there are tons of interesting and calm NW. Though for the people who say well I don't want to train with NW cause they're boring need to find another hobby as there are many interesting NW that are great training wheels.

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## Angel Minkov (Jun 23, 2015)

Rushing is never advised, but sometimes people do it, including myself, but I was comfortable with my regalis (sort of) and quickly learned how to deal with it. Some people don't learn so quickly and end up writing bite reports, not to mention all of the "MY TARANTULA ESCAPED. WILL IT SLAUGHTER ME?" threads. I always recommend people to get experience with other species before getting any high-strung species, even if they're NWs. Even if they lack the venom, getting bit by an adult female Theraphosa won't be very pleasant I bet, not to mention how fast some of them can be when they're small/juvie size.


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## Poec54 (Jun 23, 2015)

awiec said:


> Though that's why this hobby is great, there is a spider for everyone. Not everyone wants a high strung OW but there are tons of interesting and calm NW. Though for the people who say well I don't want to train with NW cause they're boring need to find another hobby as there are many interesting NW that are great training wheels.



I'm a big OW fan, but there's some 'must have' NW's in my collection, including a few of the calmer ones.

Reactions: Like 1


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## awiec (Jun 23, 2015)

Angel Minkov said:


> Rushing is never advised, but sometimes people do it, including myself, but I was comfortable with my regalis (sort of) and quickly learned how to deal with it. Some people don't learn so quickly and end up writing bite reports, not to mention all of the "MY TARANTULA ESCAPED. WILL IT SLAUGHTER ME?" threads. I always recommend people to get experience with other species before getting any high-strung species, even if they're NWs. Even if they lack the venom, getting bit by an adult female Theraphosa won't be very pleasant I bet, not to mention how fast some of them can be when they're small/juvie size.


They all have venom...some species are just stronger than others. A friend's rosea bit me and while that species has very mild venom it was not pleasant as there are two 1/2 inch fangs going into you and the swelling/inflammation made it hard/painful to move my hand for the day. A bite is something to avoid with NW and OW alike, the difference is which one puts you into a hospital.



Poec54 said:


> I'm a big OW fan, but there's some 'must have' NW's in my collection, including a few of the calmer ones.


Even though I have both, my favorite spiders are probably NW and feel people who skip to OW are really missing out.


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## Angel Minkov (Jun 23, 2015)

Wasn't hard to understand the meaning behind my sentence. Haven't you analyzed literature?


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## awiec (Jun 23, 2015)

Angel Minkov said:


> Wasn't hard to understand the meaning behind my sentence. Haven't you analyzed literature?


Don't be so jumpy, I was agreeing with you and then adding on a point. I know English isn't your first language but no where in my post is there any animosity. Also "lack the venom" directly translates to "they have no venom", which is untrue but I know that was not your intention.


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## Ultum4Spiderz (Jun 23, 2015)

awiec said:


> They all have venom...some species are just stronger than others. A friend's rosea bit me and while that species has very mild venom it was not pleasant as there are two 1/2 inch fangs going into you and the swelling/inflammation made it hard/painful to move my hand for the day. A bite is something to avoid with NW and OW alike, the difference is which one puts you into a hospital.
> 
> 
> 
> Even though I have both, my favorite spiders are probably NW and feel people who skip to OW are really missing out.


Yeah Ow are often easier to care for , they just are built more for speed , and always bite since they got no hairs.

IMO OW aren't even more defensive then Nw. They just don't have the option of kicking hairs, and don't want to end up as a meal.:laugh:


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## awiec (Jun 23, 2015)

Ultum4Spiderz said:


> Yeah Ow are often easier to care for , they just are built more for speed , and always bite since they got no hairs.
> 
> IMO OW aren't even more defensive then Nw. They just don't have the option of kicking hairs, and don't want to end up as a meal.:laugh:


While I do have a foul tempered P.metallica, my NW have always given me more sass than my OW usually do.


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## Angel Minkov (Jun 24, 2015)

Again. I wasn't jumpy, I was making a tiny joke  My English may not be my first language, but I can speak it to a fairly high level, passing C1 with ease. I'm just used to "eating" some words. I guess laziness does that to people :coffee:

By the way, the only Ts that give me threat postures are my 1.5'' M. balfouri, which actually also slams the object which I'm using to do maintenance, and my 6" B. vagans female which throws threat postures at anything.


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## Poec54 (Jun 24, 2015)

Ultum4Spiderz said:


> Yeah Ow are often easier to care for , they just are built more for speed , and always bite since they got no hairs.
> 
> IMO OW aren't even more defensive then Nw. They just don't have the option of kicking hairs, and don't want to end up as a meal.:laugh:



OW's aren't necessarily 'easier to care for', and for one of the reasons you mentioned, their speed.  With a number of them, running out of the cage is a real possibility.  You have to be much more alert, and keep a catch cup handy.  I can certainly see the appeal in Stan Schultz's collection of (relatively) slow-moving NW terrestrials.  They're hardier, lower maintenance, and usually don't your full attention when working with them.  There's times that seems pretty darn nice.  

As a group OW's are more defensive than NW's, which is why NW's were popular from day one (1960's), and OW's have only really caught on in the US in the past decade.  If the hobby had started with OBT's instead of B smithi, we wouldn't be here today.  OW's certainly don't 'always bite' either as I've worked with them for decades without being bitten.  No tarantula wants to 'end up being a meal', and most NW's have evolved a superior defense, urticating hairs, so that they can often survive encounters with predators without using the tactics OW's must.  Using projectiles against intruders is much safer than physical contact.

Reactions: Like 4


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## sw18x (Jun 24, 2015)

When did you know you were ready for OW?...

...when I built one of these. 100% guaranteed no bite, no escape transfers.
	

		
			
		

		
	




Actually, I built this for my Psalmo. Comes in very handy. I was a real chicken when I first got into the hobby, used to be afraid of regular house spiders and everything. T's cured me of that. Now I've got my eyes on buying an OBT - if I can convince my wife to let it in the house, that is. 

To tell you the truth, I'd rather deal with bites than hairs at this point anyways.

Reactions: Like 1


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## TownesVanZandt (Jun 24, 2015)

sw18x said:


> To tell you the truth, I'd rather deal with bites than hairs at this point anyways.


Those gloves looks like something that just came out from a meth lab  I agree that it is easier to avoid getting bitten by an OW, than completely avoid getting haired by an overly nervous NW. I kept only OWs for years for that reason, but in the end it is too many beautiful NWs out there and I was pleasantly surprised with how little of a problem urticating hairs pose on a day to day basis. I use gloves when I do cage maintenance in my GBB enclosure due to it being webbed down and the web contains hairs, but apart from that I only have to deal with the possibility of getting "haired" when I do rehousing.

Reactions: Like 1


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## sw18x (Jun 24, 2015)

Haha so there are meth labs in Norway too? 
Not a joke though, drugs like meth destroy a lot of lives.
They are sandblasting gloves, by the way. I can't prove they're bite proof as I haven't had a T try to bite them yet, but they're pretty thick.


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## TownesVanZandt (Jun 24, 2015)

sw18x said:


> Haha so there are meth labs in Norway too?
> Not a joke though, drugs like meth destroy a lot of lives.
> They are sandblasting gloves, by the way. I can't prove they're bite proof as I haven't had a T try to bite them yet, but they're pretty thick.


I don´t know if we have meth labs, but unfortunately Oslo has the worst heroin overdose statistics per capita in Europe. It´s really sad.


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## scott99 (Jun 24, 2015)

Poec54 said:


> I'm a big OW fan, but there's some 'must have' NW's in my collection, including a few of the calmer ones.


I can't wait until I can start getting OWs.


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## TownesVanZandt (Jun 24, 2015)

scott99 said:


> I can't wait until I can start getting OWs.


What´s stopping you?


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## lalberts9310 (Jun 24, 2015)

TownesVanZandt said:


> What´s stopping you?


He gets nervous around fast moving Ts...

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## TownesVanZandt (Jun 24, 2015)

lalberts9310 said:


> He gets nervous around fast moving Ts...


Ok, then he shouldn´t keep fast moving Ts


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## BobGrill (Jun 24, 2015)

TownesVanZandt said:


> Ok, then he shouldn´t keep fast moving Ts


That's what's stopping him then.

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk

Reactions: Like 2


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## awiec (Jun 24, 2015)

scott99 said:


> I can't wait until I can start getting OWs.


I mean you don't necessarily have to jump over into pokies and OBTs as there are many African genus that aren't as fast/nervous. I have a big adult female C.darlingi who can boogie when she wants to but prefers just to sit and is no where near as fast or flighty as my taps/true spiders. So if fast spiders do make you nervous, start out with some of the more laid back burrowers when you want to dip your toes into OW.

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## lalberts9310 (Jun 24, 2015)

awiec said:


> I mean you don't necessarily have to jump over into pokies and OBTs as there are many African genus that aren't as fast/nervous. I have a big adult female C.darlingi who can boogie when she wants to but prefers just to sit and is no where near as fast or flighty as my taps/true spiders. So if fast spiders do make you nervous, start out with some of the more laid back burrowers when you want to dip your toes into OW.


Yeah, if he can get comfortable rehousing his p. cam when it's an adult, he can start looking into ceratogyrus for instance, maybe even monocentropus as those are great starter OWs.. but again, needs to get comfy around the psalmos before he'll be able to feel comfortable around a potent OW


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## TownesVanZandt (Jun 24, 2015)

lalberts9310 said:


> Yeah, if he can get comfortable rehousing his p. cam when it's an adult, he can start looking into ceratogyrus for instance, maybe even monocentropus as those are great starter OWs.. but again, needs to get comfy around the psalmos before he'll be able to feel comfortable around a potent OW


Psalmos are arboreal and a C. darlingi is terrestrial and will burrow, so I can´t really see what the one has to do with keeping the other? The set up and how to deal with the spider will be completely different. IMO the best OW species to start with if you are nervous about keeping them is E. pachypus. I have not seen overly defensive behavior or any attempts at unpredictable bolts with this species.


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## BobGrill (Jun 24, 2015)

TownesVanZandt said:


> Psalmos are arboreal and a C. darlingi are terrestrial and will burrow, so I can´t really see what the one has to do with keeping the other? The set up and how to deal with the spider will be completely different.


Speed and temperament. 

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk

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## truecreature (Jun 24, 2015)

TownesVanZandt said:


> Psalmos are arboreal and a C. darlingi is terrestrial and will burrow, so I can´t really see what the one has to do with keeping the other? The set up and how to deal with the spider will be completely different. IMO the best OW species to start with if you are nervous about keeping them is E. pachypus. I have not seen overly defensive behavior or any attempts at unpredictable bolts with this species.


I second the E. pachypus as being a great beginner OW. My juvie female has been a very chill spider so far, doesn't even flinch when I open or close the KK lid which if you're familiar with those they have a fairly jarring snap, and cage maintenence doesn't bother her either.


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## cold blood (Jun 24, 2015)

TownesVanZandt said:


> but in the end it is too many beautiful NWs out there and I was pleasantly surprised with how little of a problem urticating hairs pose on a day to day basis.


I'm literally shocked at the way some people view getting haired...especially when they use it as an excuse to avoid NW...ridiculous to the point of straight up laughter on my part...don't play with them, mess around in or blow into the enclosure and they are virtually a non-issue 99% of the time....even the bad flickers with the worst hairs.

When you were a kid (not directed to anyone in particular), did anyone ever experience itching powder that used to be sold at joke and gag gift stores....generally made from urticating hairs of a t...and they are used for entertainment...often by children.    I mean, oh my gosh, I itch.....lets not freak out about itching, things like poison ivy or even many of the usual bug bites we all encounter daily are hardly much different in terms of the reaction (plants like ivy are actually WAY worse) and we all learn to live with that without freaking out or even making a big deal out of it.   Just like the poison ivy, if you aim to avoid it, you'll be successful the vast majority of the time.    Heck pollen makes my throat, nose and lungs itch something fierce, but I have never avoided the outdoors because of this inevitability.

Can't handle a little itching...well you must live in a bubble then, cause that's the only way to really avoid skin irritation.

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## awiec (Jun 24, 2015)

cold blood said:


> I'm literally shocked at the way some people view getting haired...especially when they use it as an excuse to avoid NW...ridiculous to the point of straight up laughter on my part...don't play with them, mess around in or blow into the enclosure and they are virtually a non-issue 99% of the time....even the bad flickers with the worst hairs.
> 
> When you were a kid (not directed to anyone in particular), did anyone ever experience itching powder that used to be sold at joke and gag gift stores....generally made from urticating hairs of a t...and they are used for entertainment...often by children.    I mean, oh my gosh, I itch.....lets not freak out about itching, things like poison ivy or even many of the usual bug bites we all encounter daily are hardly much different in terms of the reaction (plants like ivy are actually WAY worse) and we all learn to live with that without freaking out or even making a big deal out of it.   Just like the poison ivy, if you aim to avoid it, you'll be successful the vast majority of the time.    Heck pollen makes my throat, nose and lungs itch something fierce, but I have never avoided the outdoors because of this inevitability.
> 
> Can't handle a little itching...well you must live in a bubble then, cause that's the only way to really avoid skin irritation.


I don't really understand it either. Even if you get blisters from hairs it's still going to be less painful and serious than a bite that will cause some of the worse pain in your life and vomiting; medicine can be given to deal with the blisters but pain killers don't really touch tarantula venom.

IF hairs are that much of an issue then the old school dishwashing gloves will make sure you don't get hairs on your hands/wrists but even the most pissy of NW can be dealt with without having to cause them to kick hairs. I know I'm starting to get a sensitivity to the hairs myself but I just deal with it as a little itching does not deter me from the animals I enjoy.

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## lalberts9310 (Jun 24, 2015)

TownesVanZandt said:


> Psalmos are arboreal and a C. darlingi is terrestrial and will burrow, so I can´t really see what the one has to do with keeping the other? The set up and how to deal with the spider will be completely different. IMO the best OW species to start with if you are nervous about keeping them is E. pachypus. I have not seen overly defensive behavior or any attempts at unpredictable bolts with this species.


ceratogyrus and monocentropus are also a less skittish more calm OW, why they are great starter OWs.. it's not about husbandry, it's about being comfortable, if you are comfortable around taps and psalmos (defensive and fast) you'll be comfortable around an OW.  why they are great genera in prepping you for an OW.. they are like OWs, they just don't possess the potent venom.   I mean if you're comfortable with a pissy fast moving NW aboreal, it's going to be easy to be comfy around OW terrestrials


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## TownesVanZandt (Jun 24, 2015)

cold blood said:


> I'm literally shocked at the way some people view getting haired...especially when they use it as an excuse to avoid NW...ridiculous to the point of straight up laughter on my part...don't play with them, mess around in or blow into the enclosure and they are virtually a non-issue 99% of the time....even the bad flickers with the worst hairs.
> 
> When you were a kid (not directed to anyone in particular), did anyone ever experience itching powder that used to be sold at joke and gag gift stores....generally made from urticating hairs of a t...and they are used for entertainment...often by children.    I mean, oh my gosh, I itch.....lets not freak out about itching, things like poison ivy or even many of the usual bug bites we all encounter daily are hardly much different in terms of the reaction (plants like ivy are actually WAY worse) and we all learn to live with that without freaking out or even making a big deal out of it.   Just like the poison ivy, if you aim to avoid it, you'll be successful the vast majority of the time.    Heck pollen makes my throat, nose and lungs itch something fierce, but I have never avoided the outdoors because of this inevitability.
> 
> Can't handle a little itching...well you must live in a bubble then, cause that's the only way to really avoid skin irritation.


I think the reaction from urticating hairs depend from individual to individual. Before I got my own first Ts I had a friend who was keeping an A. geniculata and it was a big hair flicker. The person in question let me do some feeding and cage maintenance and the physical reactions I got from the hairs was quite different. Whereas she got a little red and itchy for hours I got a rash that lasted for two or three days. That´s why I started with tarantulas that don´t kick hairs. Now I have hair kickers as well, and they still give me a bad rash if I get haired, but as I said, apart from rehousing, getting haired is really not an issue. I keep all my Ts in my living room and they don´t kick their hairs around to bother me 

---------- Post added 06-24-2015 at 03:55 PM ----------




lalberts9310 said:


> ceratogyrus and monocentropus are also a less skittish more calm OW, why they are great starter OWs.. it's not about husbandry, it's about being comfortable, if you are comfortable around taps and psalmos (defensive and fast) you'll be comfortable around an OW.  why they are great genera in prepping you for an OW.. they are like OWs, they just don't possess the potent venom.   I mean if you're comfortable with a pissy fast moving NW aboreal, it's going to be easy to be comfy around OW terrestrials


I agree with ceratogyrus and monocentropus as also being good OWs to begin with (not just as good as E. pachypus  ) I got comfortable with OWs first and now I am comfortable with NWs as well. I don´t really treat them any differently and I actually don´t think it is something radical different to keep OWs and NWs. Don´t get me wrong, I am not trying to make people start out with OBTs or haplos, in fact I will never support anyone keeping a spider they are not comfortable with keeping and I don´t support "gonzo keeping" of Ts in any ways.

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## cold blood (Jun 24, 2015)

Yeah townes, I'm allergic to just about everything this planet has to offer, and in the unlikely scenario where I get haired, I break out and do have a good reaction to it.  But in 15 years its happened only a handful of times, and generally it involved a re-house.....and I've never worn gloves or any protective gear....yet....although that is a simple fix that many do.

I also have a strong reaction to poison ivy, yet I still walk my dog in the same park that's riddled with the stuff.   Its just something I pay attention to....just like the hairs in my t room.


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## Chris LXXIX (Jun 24, 2015)

lalberts9310 said:


> ceratogyrus and monocentropus are also a less skittish more calm OW, why they are great starter OWs.. it's not about husbandry, it's about being comfortable, if you are comfortable around taps and psalmos (defensive and fast) you'll be comfortable around an OW.  why they are great genera in prepping you for an OW.. they are like OWs, they just don't possess the potent venom.   I mean if you're comfortable with a pissy fast moving NW aboreal, it's going to be easy to be comfy around OW terrestrials


My view differs. I agree with you, don't get me wrong. Just that (disclaimer: i'm a no problem one with every T's or "True spider") there's "OW" and "OW" T's.
A potent venom _Pelinobius muticus_, or_ Hysterocrates gigas_, if housed well with a lot (but a lot) of substrate (they need that, as you know) are the best easy to work with T's ever.
Now, of course i don't suggest them to beginners, but compared to fast as light _Psalmopoeus_ sp. or _Tapinauchenius _sp. well, don't know "who" is/are the OW'S.
Of course OBT'S are a different story. But honestly... those burrowers, except for their venom, are more "easy to care for" than those "Flash" NW arboreals. 
I mean, my point sometime is: if you are comfortable with those giant, burrower African beast it's going to be easy with fast as light (not so defensive, however, and easily spooked) _Psalmopoeus_ spp.

P.S
Can't resist.. i have a weak point for African giant Baboons lol, so lovely they are.

---------- Post added 06-24-2015 at 04:49 PM ----------




cold blood said:


> I'm literally shocked at the way some people view getting haired...especially when they use it as an excuse to avoid NW...ridiculous to the point of straight up laughter on my part...don't play with them, mess around in or blow into the enclosure and they are virtually a non-issue 99% of the time....even the bad flickers with the worst hairs.
> 
> When you were a kid (not directed to anyone in particular), did anyone ever experience itching powder that used to be sold at joke and gag gift stores....generally made from urticating hairs of a t...and they are used for entertainment...often by children.    I mean, oh my gosh, I itch.....lets not freak out about itching, things like poison ivy or even many of the usual bug bites we all encounter daily are hardly much different in terms of the reaction (plants like ivy are actually WAY worse) and we all learn to live with that without freaking out or even making a big deal out of it.   Just like the poison ivy, if you aim to avoid it, you'll be successful the vast majority of the time.    Heck pollen makes my throat, nose and lungs itch something fierce, but I have never avoided the outdoors because of this inevitability.
> 
> Can't handle a little itching...well you must live in a bubble then, cause that's the only way to really avoid skin irritation.


I have (and had way more in the past) lot of NW intermediate "kickers". Now, while mine "kickers" today doesn't really wanna kick (i don't even push them to) my AF _Megaphobema robustum_ sometimes "got" my finger with her hairs (not directly kicking at me, she leaves them in the web, near the burrow).
Even if i use long tongs, sometimes happen with her enclosure routine husbandry. What a beauty feeling.. hard to explain. Just a little itching, very red spot, but different from mosquitos or other crap.
Some hours, and that strange, weird sensation vanish, and nothing more. I love those hairs.

---------- Post added 06-24-2015 at 04:58 PM ----------




cold blood said:


> I also have a strong reaction to poison ivy


Me too. Pamela.. oh she's so sexy i can't resist for a little taste of her chlorophyll.

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## lalberts9310 (Jun 24, 2015)

I'm not comparing their speed in any way, aboreals are generally way faster than terrestrials, psalmos are also very reclusive and rather hides before bolting out of an enclosure (I haven't seen my one female for more than 3 months, not even at night, and she's not in pre-molt).. the problem comes when rehousing needs to be done, or in one of those instances where the T is out and about and decides to run anywhere besides its burrow/hide.. if you are nervous around fast moving NWs you won't feel comfortable around OWs.

And my psalmos are rather defensive, especially my one irminia MM (I mean seriously, if you think obt is bad).. my irminia female however is a doll, very curious, not so skittish nor defensive, haven't seen a threat pose from her as of yet.


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## Angel Minkov (Jun 24, 2015)

I have yet to experience itching when haired from an OW and I've been haired a couple of times :: There are some NWs which I would own even if I had to experience months of rashes at a time, like Xenesthis immanis/T. apophysis. I don't even care if they're NW or boring. They're just too beautiful not to own. And after getting almost all Pokies, watching them for so long and doing transfers, it got pretty repetitive, so I'm looking to freshen-up my collection with various new additions, that's why I didn't collect the whole genus the past month.


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## lalberts9310 (Jun 24, 2015)

Angel Minkov said:


> I have yet to experience itching when haired from an OW and I've been haired a couple of times ::


I guess you meant NW there? :laugh:


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## truecreature (Jun 24, 2015)

The more often you're exposed to the hairs, the more sensitive you're supposed to get to them. A person could experience no reaction for years, but eventually there could be mild rashes that in turn develop into worse ones

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## awiec (Jun 24, 2015)

raisinjelly said:


> The more often you're exposed to the hairs, the more sensitive you're supposed to get to them. A person could experience no reaction for years, but eventually there could be mild rashes that in turn develop into worse ones


Correct, it's an immune response that your body slowly builds up to. I'm just starting to get a slight reaction after working with NW for 2 years, it's nothing bad just some slight tingling. This only arose after I had to pack two males within a month which they kicked everywhere, otherwise even during rehouses I don't see any kicking.


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## Sam_Peanuts (Jun 24, 2015)

I didn't have any reaction for years and got plenty of exposure since I only learned they had urticating hair years after I started keeping them and now I break out in hives extremely easily.

The hair always manage to get somewhere I'm going to touch even when I'm being careful. I don't keep that many so it's no so bad and I don't mind enduring itchiness for a few days once in a while, but I concentrate on OW because it's much more enjoyable to not be itchy and the point of a hobby is to enjoy it.
I still love all my NW, but I really wish they didn't have those damn hair sometimes that I can't seem to figure out how they get to me 90% of the time.

Here's what my hand currently look like after about 10 days of getting some hair lodged in it somehow(it stopped itching a day or 2 ago and is in the process of healing. I should have gotten a good pic while it was at its worst):


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## Poec54 (Jun 24, 2015)

raisinjelly said:


> The more often you're exposed to the hairs, the more sensitive you're supposed to get to them. A person could experience no reaction for years, but eventually there could be mild rashes that in turn develop into worse ones


+1.  I never had a reaction to Avic hairs (didn't think it was possible), but last summer I helped a dealer unpack 400 w/c Avic avics, and now I'm sensitive to them, getting itchy wrists.  They don't kick, but the hairs are probably deliberately put in the silk.

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## Ellenantula (Jun 25, 2015)

I haven't been haired yet, or apparently, come into any contact with them period.  
But I am allergic to everything. I take an allergy med and go on with my life.  Or not take one and still go on with my life.  
I get a reddened area on my arms when the cats lay against me, sneeze at most anything, and always have a little contact dermatitis from using those hand sanitizers.  
Allergies are just a vague annoyance for me.  Guess you get used to them.
My T-hair allergies will eventually arrive....

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## scott99 (Jun 25, 2015)

lalberts9310 said:


> Yeah, if he can get comfortable rehousing his p. cam when it's an adult, he can start looking into ceratogyrus for instance, maybe even monocentropus as those are great starter OWs.. but again, needs to get comfy around the psalmos before he'll be able to feel comfortable around a potent OW


I comfortable rehousing my P cam, she about 4.5 in. Actually, my P cambridgei is easy to work with then my L parahybana. She rarely uses her speed.

---------- Post added 06-25-2015 at 12:33 PM ----------




TownesVanZandt said:


> What´s stopping you?


Little brothers. it wouldn't be fair to them, for me to keep a tarantula with a medically significant bite.

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## TownesVanZandt (Jun 25, 2015)

scott99 said:


> Little brothers. it wouldn't be fair to them, for me to keep a tarantula with a medically significant bite.


Agreed! It´s great to see that you keep Ts responsibly, scott.


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## Angel Minkov (Jun 25, 2015)

lalberts9310 said:


> I guess you meant NW there? :laugh:


Yes LOL I'm too hung up on OWs. :idea:

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## Ultum4Spiderz (Jun 25, 2015)

+1 
I am Very alergic to the hairs having kept NW about 12 years since my first Ts were NW.  I just try my best to avoid hairs. I cannot itch rash either or it spreads like crazy.


Poec54 said:


> +1.  I never had a reaction to Avic hairs (didn't think it was possible), but last summer I helped a dealer unpack 400 w/c Avic avics, and now I'm sensitive to them, getting itchy wrists.  They don't kick, but the hairs are probably deliberately put in the silk.


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## pinktoed (Jun 26, 2015)

I recently purchased a juvenile e pachypus and a .5 inch c marshalli sling in my first online order. I think you can just decide for yourself when your ready. I haven't had any t go in a threat position towards me yet but I'm sure ill find out soon enough.


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## Dave Marschang (Jun 26, 2015)

well for me it was when I fed and watered all my T's and not once did I get bit, threatened or even a dirty look. in fact all of my NW terrestrials seemed almost to enjoy my company. I thought " what a bunch of sissy spiders!"  "why, my life wasn't even at risk once, I didn't even have to call 911!" "how boring!"
So I decided right then and there that I would fill my spider room with OBT's and.....NOT!
 I gently rubbed the back of my G. pulchras head like I know she likes , poured another cup of coffee and thought about how relaxing my spider hobby is! 
No OW's for me. lol

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