# Do you handle your tarantula(s)?



## Jacob Thibodaux (Oct 30, 2017)

Just curious.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Trenor (Oct 30, 2017)

Nope.


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## darkness975 (Oct 30, 2017)

Jacob Thibodaux said:


> Just curious.


No


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## Venom1080 (Oct 30, 2017)

No. 

Handling just doesn't do anything for them except stress them out. It's selfish when you think about it.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 5


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## ShyDragoness (Oct 30, 2017)

No

Reactions: Love 1


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## Jacob Thibodaux (Oct 30, 2017)

Venom1080 said:


> No.
> 
> Handling just doesn't do anything for them except stress them out. It's selfish when you think about it.


I think you're right. Very well stated.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Venom1080 (Oct 30, 2017)

Jacob Thibodaux said:


> I think you're right. Very well stated.


Thanks.


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## WeightedAbyss75 (Oct 30, 2017)

I had once, but only because I was curious and my girl was extremely sluggish all the time. Now, I have such high-strung T's that I could never trust any one of them  Risk is too much for me, so I don't even try. Just watch them from a distance

Reactions: Like 2


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## chanda (Oct 30, 2017)

I know that I am in the minority, but yes - I do handle a few of my tarantulas (the most docile ones) 2-3 times a year for classroom demonstrations. I am well aware that the tarantulas derive no benefit from being handled and that doing so puts creates a risk of stress, falls, escapes, or bites, but I also believe that the students benefit from seeing them safely handled. As I am handling the spider, I talk to the students about what I am doing. I point out to them the way the spider is behaving and tell them about possible signs that the spider wishes to be left alone - such as retreating, hiding, adopting a threat pose, or threatening to kick hairs. If the spider exhibits any of those indicators, I respect them and leave it alone - but if the spider will calmly walk onto my hand, I will pick it up to show the kids. When I do this, the cage is sitting on the floor and the spider is kept within a few inches of the floor at all times. I do everything I can to safeguard the spider and minimize stress or risk. I point out to the students the steps that I am taking to keep the spider safe and to remind them that this is a living creature that is deserving of respect, and not just a cool toy.

The prevailing attitude around here is "Don't handle your spiders - ever!" and there are plenty of cases of spiders that have suffered injury or death due to careless handling. I do not recommend casual or careless handling or handling for sheer bravado or to show off, but I do think that occasional, responsible handling is possible. I have never had any mishaps or bad experiences - probably because I do everything I can to minimize stress and make sure the spider is safe - and the spiders themselves show no signs of stress (such as bald patches).

Reactions: Like 8 | Agree 1 | Love 1


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## mack1855 (Oct 30, 2017)

Nope.


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## Adam96 (Oct 30, 2017)

I only juggle them

Reactions: Funny 6


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## WolfSoon (Oct 30, 2017)

No. When I was a (ignorant) kid I once handled my A chalcodes. She was not into it and tried to escape into my dresser. When my chin and arms became itchy afterward I started reading up more and learned about urticating hairs and that tarantulas don't in fact like to be handled. I don't handle anymore because of risk to the spider.


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## sdsnybny (Oct 30, 2017)

Yes, but not intentionally. If  they walk out of the enclosure during maintenance then I will walk them across my hand at a safe level directly back into the enclosure.


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## basin79 (Oct 30, 2017)



Reactions: Like 3 | Funny 1 | Love 2


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## Nightstalker47 (Oct 30, 2017)

The thought of handling doesn't even cross my mind. Simply not interested.


chanda said:


> I know that I am in the minority, but yes - I do handle a few of my tarantulas (the most docile ones) 2-3 times a year for classroom demonstrations. I am well aware that the tarantulas derive no benefit from being handled and that doing so puts creates a risk of stress, falls, escapes, or bites, but I also believe that the students benefit from seeing them safely handled. As I am handling the spider, I talk to the students about what I am doing. I point out to them the way the spider is behaving and tell them about possible signs that the spider wishes to be left alone - such as retreating, hiding, adopting a threat pose, or threatening to kick hairs. If the spider exhibits any of those indicators, I respect them and leave it alone - but if the spider will calmly walk onto my hand, I will pick it up to show the kids. When I do this, the cage is sitting on the floor and the spider is kept within a few inches of the floor at all times. I do everything I can to safeguard the spider and minimize stress or risk. I point out to the students the steps that I am taking to keep the spider safe and to remind them that this is a living creature that is deserving of respect, and not just a cool toy.
> 
> The prevailing attitude around here is "Don't handle your spiders - ever!" and there are plenty of cases of spiders that have suffered injury or death due to careless handling. I do not recommend casual or careless handling or handling for sheer bravado or to show off, but I do think that occasional, responsible handling is possible. I have never had any mishaps or bad experiences - probably because I do everything I can to minimize stress and make sure the spider is safe - and the spiders themselves show no signs of stress (such as bald patches).


You've eliminated most risk involved, true, but the spider could still choose to lash out and bite either way. Something as simple as breathing on it could trigger this response. 

Even "docile" tarantulas are well known for their drastic changes in temperament/behavior. It would really suck for you to end up on the wrong end of that, especially whilst doing a class demonstration.

Im pretty confident that every single time the spider gets handled it's somewhat stressed. It can feel your pulse through your skin, and is well aware that its on another living organism. Wether or not it chooses to react erratically is something else entirely....

Reactions: Agree 4


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## SkittleBunny (Oct 30, 2017)

Greetings! Handling is a no no for many reasons! Ive noticed the people who want to handle T's really want to form a relationship with their pet. The harsh truth is its a spider, not a puppy.  The only real interaction i give my tarantulas is a finger handshake (sitting my finger under their front right paw lifting it up and down very slightly) and I gently talk to them. Ive found my t's are slightly more tolerant to cage maintainance, or lid removal.  Could it be because of the interaction? Maybe.  I just love the feeling of trust between me and my T's.

Many would say finger handshakes are also a no-no since T's cant love their owners and would gladly bite any thing that triggers a feeding response. (But hey, im a blooming idiot! Dont try this at home unless you want to be bitten like our very own shampain88, who poked an OBT, id love an autographed photo of the moment it happened lmao)

My A.Seemani is a slow eater, she slowly pulls crickets to her fangs with her legs. She did this to my finger the first time I tried a finger shake with her and to my teary eyed surprise, trusting her pays off as she slowly stepped back without biting me. Probably her first time feeling a finger .  She also creeps towards any face thats talking to her, which i think is cute even though its a response to my warm breath. If it got close enough it would probably bite my face. Again Its a spider not a puppy. 

Most of us want our tarantulas to have a real personality so bad that we mistake natural behaviour for character. They are spiders and do not feel emotion and my finger under its paw may not stress it out but it will eventually cause me to be bitten, all over tricking myself into believing they "love" me, when I'm only avoiding being bitten by less than an inch. 

Apologies for the winded reply. 
Please do not handle your tarantulas. I've seen it go wrong too many times. (RIP 13 year old huge B.Smithi 5th grade class pet)

Reactions: Like 2


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## Jacob Thibodaux (Oct 30, 2017)

SkittleBunny said:


> Greetings! Handling is a no no for many reasons! Ive noticed the people who want to handle T's really want to form a relationship with their pet. The harsh truth is its a spider, not a puppy.  The only real interaction i give my tarantulas is a finger handshake (sitting my finger under their front right paw lifting it up and down very slightly) and I gently talk to them. Ive found my t's are slightly more tolerant to cage maintainance, or lid removal.  Could it be because of the interaction? Maybe.  I just love the feeling of trust between me and my T's.
> 
> Many would say finger handshakes are also a no-no since T's cant love their owners and would gladly bite any thing that triggers a feeding response. (But hey, im a blooming idiot! Dont try this at home unless you want to be bitten like our very own shampain88, who poked an OBT, id love an autographed photo of the moment it happened lmao)
> 
> ...


Thanks for your input.


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## The Grym Reaper (Oct 30, 2017)

No, I did it a few times when I was fairly new to this but I haven't deliberately handled any since (I've had the odd one bolt out of the enclosure and onto me but they quickly get ushered back inside).

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Mentat Ix (Oct 30, 2017)

I've got nothing against handling tarantulas in general. I'm always a bit bemused by how pious people act on topics like this.

That being said, I still voted no. I just don't have any interest in handling any of mine at this time. Maybe when my Euathlus sp reds get bigger. Probably not, though.


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## chanda (Oct 30, 2017)

Nightstalker47 said:


> The thought of handling doesn't even cross my mind. Simply not interested.
> 
> You've eliminated most risk involved, true, but the spider could still choose to lash out and bite either way. Something as simple as breathing on it could trigger this response.
> 
> ...


There is inherent risk in many common activities. After reducing the risk as much as possible, the question one has to ask is whether the potential gain (in this case, educating children, demystifying spiders, and helping some of them to get over a fear of bugs and spiders) outweighs the remaining risk. Of course the tarantula *could* decide to lash out without advance warning - but it is unlikely to do so, particularly when I am very careful to avoid moving quickly or doing anything that might startle it.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Venom1080 (Oct 30, 2017)

Mentat Ix said:


> I've got nothing against handling tarantulas in general. I'm always a bit bemused by how pious people act on topics like this.
> 
> That being said, I still voted no. I just don't have any interest in handling any of mine at this time. Maybe when my Euathlus sp reds get bigger. Probably not, though.


And whys that??


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## Poec54 (Oct 30, 2017)

Adam96 said:


> I only juggle them



You don't juggle cats by any chance, do you?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Anoplogaster (Oct 30, 2017)

I prefer handling my fish. The way he enthusiastically high-fives my palm and blows kisses at me. I’m certain I’ve formed a spiritual bond with this creature!

.......

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Poec54 (Oct 30, 2017)

Handling is all about _"Look at me!"_  Instead of using spiders as a prop, treat them with respect; the cage is _their_ territory, you are an intruder.  You will always be an intruder.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 4


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## dragonfire1577 (Oct 30, 2017)

So sort of. I don't actively go to handle my T's, but I only keep very calm new world terrestrials and just scooting the spider onto my hand using a paintbrush and then back off while re housing is easier for me and probably makes no difference for the spider when compared to transferring to a container then back out of it for a move. I never pet the spider or do anything unnecessary and do all this at very low height in the center of a bed to avoid the risk of a fall, I pretty much just use my hand as a platform to move the T and that's it. So I don't handle in the typical sense but do contact the spider for rehousing.


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## johnny quango (Oct 30, 2017)

I don't believe in handling the tarantulas i have in my collection, i have handled a couple of them through necessity when they were stuck or at least their tarsi was and without my intervention my adult female E parvulus would've lost a leg so if needs must


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## Mentat Ix (Oct 30, 2017)

Venom1080 said:


> And whys that??


Which part?


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## Venom1080 (Oct 30, 2017)

Mentat Ix said:


> Which part?


First


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## Mentat Ix (Oct 30, 2017)

Venom1080 said:


> First


It seems to me that the main argument against handling tarantulas around here is that it poses a risk to the tarantula, and there's some sort of moral imperative to minimize any risk at all cost.

I just don't think it's all that serious. They're tarantulas, not some kind of holy totem. Different people have different tolerance for risk with their pets, and I think that's OK.

I'm not advocating for acting a fool, and clearly there are plenty of fools out there handling tarantulas. I don't think handling one automatically makes someone an irresponsible idiot, and people thinking that way says more about them than about the people handling tarantulas.

Reactions: Agree 3 | Disagree 2


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## Tim Benzedrine (Oct 30, 2017)

Poec54 said:


> You don't juggle cats by any chance, do you?


LOL! I was gonna make that reference myself!

Crap. Poec and I share the same source of amusement? It's a sign of the apocalypse, people.

Let's show them what we are referring to, Poec!

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## Garth Vader (Oct 30, 2017)

I have handled my E sp red a few times on purpose, and a few time on accident because she climbed out to check out the world as she tends to do.  I use her for therapy sessions sometimes for people with insect phobias.  Typically I conduct exposures with the Ts in their enclosure as handling a giant hairy T is not helpful with what phobic people will do in daily life anyway.  I don't have people who are scared handle her, ever.  In fact, I think it is more effective to have people just watch her move around and she is a show off so that is no problem.  I don't want to harm her or anyone else.  Plus it helps challenge people's beliefs about spiders and Ts to let them know how they are actually quite fragile.  
Usually it is when I catch insects from around my house or office (true spiders or flies for example) and then set them loose without the person knowing where they are- that tends to be the most challenging exposure that we work up to.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Venom1080 (Oct 30, 2017)

Mentat Ix said:


> It seems to me that the main argument against handling tarantulas around here is that it poses a risk to the tarantula, and there's some sort of moral imperative to minimize any risk at all cost.
> 
> I just don't think it's all that serious. They're tarantulas, not some kind of holy totem. Different people have different tolerance for risk with their pets, and I think that's OK.
> 
> I'm not advocating for acting a fool, and clearly there are plenty of fools out there handling tarantulas. I don't think handling one automatically makes someone an irresponsible idiot, and people thinking that way says more about them than about the people handling tarantulas.


It's selfish. It's an animal you are responsible for keeping alive, and you go about intentionally stressing it out. You are a lesser keeper in my eyes if you handle for fun. You don't care about the animal as much as whatever joy you get from having a big spider walk over you. and that's not right. 

There's other pets that enjoy being touched. Go get one of those instead.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 5 | Disagree 1


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## Mentat Ix (Oct 30, 2017)

Venom1080 said:


> It's selfish. It's an animal you are responsible for keeping alive, and you go about intentionally stressing it out. You are a lesser keeper in my eyes if you handle for fun. You don't care about the animal as much as whatever joy you get from having a big spider walk over you. and that's not right.
> 
> There's other pets that enjoy being touched. Go get one of those instead.


You're not wrong, I guess. But to me that argument misses the point.

The same argument can be made for even owning a tarantula. Unless you're actively engaged in a conservation effort, it's selfish, unnecessary and of no benefit to the tarantula. Heck, the same argument could be made for almost all "exotic" pets. And yet, everyone loves the guy at the expo with the giant "super tame" tegu.

Still, I don't totally disagree with you. Like I said, I have several Ts and I don't handle them - most of the ones I have are beyond my level of acceptable risk to handle, and I frankly don't see the point. Different strokes for different folks, though. It'll take more than someone handling their rose hair for kicks to automatically convince me they're a "lesser keeper" or somehow morally bankrupt.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## ErinM31 (Oct 30, 2017)

I handle those of my tarantulas that don't show indications of being stressed by it and that, like _Euathlus_ sp. "Red" will walk out on their own accord. I do occasionally handle some of the others, but very rarely such as during rehousing as of course I do not wish to cause my tarantulas avoidable stress. I do not handle my significantly venomous tarantulas at all and use long wooden tongs to do maintenance.

Some people seem to be arguing that since tarantulas are not sentient or don't derive any benefit from being handled that somehow that makes it wrong? I disagree. Others have pointed out the benefits people can derive from handling tarantulas responsibly. Taking care of my tarantulas and interacting with those I can has helped me in so many ways, including completely overcoming arachnophobia and seeing and appreciating beauty where I had not seen it before. I do my best to provide the best care I can for all animals in my care -- feeder roaches too until their time comes. Think what you like. I make no apologies.

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## Rittdk01 (Oct 30, 2017)

When I’m cleaning their enclosures or rehousing I pull out my docile nw’s.  It’s sometimes easier and more safe than trying to get them in a cup.  I handled my rosehair tarantulas all the time when I was new to t keeping.


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## Chickenfeeder100 (Oct 30, 2017)

Mentat Ix said:


> You're not wrong, I guess. But to me that argument misses the point.
> 
> The same argument can be made for even owning a tarantula. Unless you're actively engaged in a conservation effort, it's selfish, unnecessary and of no benefit to the tarantula. Heck, the same argument could be made for almost all "exotic" pets. And yet, everyone loves the guy at the expo with the giant "super tame" tegu.
> 
> Still, I don't totally disagree with you. Like I said, I have several Ts and I don't handle them - most of the ones I have are beyond my level of acceptable risk to handle, and I frankly don't see the point. Different strokes for different folks, though. It'll take more than someone handling their rose hair for kicks to automatically convince me they're a "lesser keeper" or somehow morally bankrupt.


you bring a good point


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## Chris LXXIX (Oct 31, 2017)

A thing that a lot of 'handling keepers' almost never consider is credibility.

Forget for a moment the fact that T's (or other arachnids, for that matter) gain nothing from that.

Forget for a moment statements like: "My T's, my money, my T's health/safety and my health... my whatever, so I do what I want".

Forget for a moment the risk of ban/limitations/etc because I can personally 100% guarantee you that, the system, doesn't necessarily needs bites/escapes or whatever for put a ban: they can do that any day of the year, if they want. This is another thing that a lot of keepers IMO fail to realize.

Forget for a moment all of this above and consider this detail: which kind of credibility has a community of 'handlers', with people always in front of a webcam, camera etc with even scorpions in their mouth?

I tell you this... one of the reasons why the Italian arachnid community (which I'm part, since I keep T's since '92) managed to fix with the government/s the arachnid ban was *credibility*: no one was 'joking' with T's like a circus clown.

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## Chickenfeeder100 (Oct 31, 2017)

those poor scorpions...


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## ErinM31 (Oct 31, 2017)

Chris LXXIX said:


> Forget for a moment all of this above and consider this detail: which kind of credibility has a community of 'handlers', with people always in front of a webcam, camera etc with even scorpions in their mouth?
> 
> I tell you this... one of the reasons why the Italian arachnid community (which I'm part, since I keep T's since '92) managed to fix with the government/s the arachnid ban was *credibility*: no one was 'joking' with T's like a circus clown.


I couldn't agree more but I don't know what the rest of us can do about that. Such people don't care about the repercussions of their actions, only getting attention or whatever.

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## Chris LXXIX (Oct 31, 2017)

ErinM31 said:


> I couldn't agree more but I don't know what the rest of us can do about that. Such people don't care about the repercussions of their actions, only getting attention or whatever.


It's a question of attitude. Because, frankly, I think that the 95% (and I'm kind) of 'handlers' wouldn't do anymore that without the Internet and their likes/views/audience to please. Like those selfie addicted - always online, always 'social' - folks, they are voyeurists to the bone.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## ErinM31 (Oct 31, 2017)

Chris LXXIX said:


> It's a question of attitude. Because, frankly, I think that the 95% (and I'm kind) of 'handlers' wouldn't do anymore that without the Internet and their likes/views/audience to please. Like those selfie addicted - always online, always 'social' - folks, they are voyeurists to the bone.


Certainly that encourages and "rewards" stupid and irresponsible behavior. I haven't a clue on the percentages and perhaps we would also need to examine labels, but I'm sure there are many people who handle quietly by themselves, no audience, newsfeed, etc. I don't often handle my tarantulas and several not at all, but when I do, I'm by myself, seated on the floor in a closed room, focused solely on the tarantula, rather meditative actually. Am I weird? Lol, I already know that I am, but whether this is one more aspect or is something others do as well I could not say.

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## Mentat Ix (Oct 31, 2017)

Chris LXXIX said:


> Forget for a moment all of this above and consider this detail: which kind of credibility has a community of 'handlers', with people always in front of a webcam, camera etc with even scorpions in their mouth?
> 
> I tell you this... one of the reasons why the Italian arachnid community (which I'm part, since I keep T's since '92) managed to fix with the government/s the arachnid ban was *credibility*: no one was 'joking' with T's like a circus clown.


I feel like I'm just playing devils advocate at this point but...

There's a world of difference between making a spectacle of yourself on youtube doing foolish things and handling a T that tolerates it well in a responsible manner.

One will always make the whole community look bad. 

The other, while the risk is non-zero, is not a big deal in any scenario. I would say it doesn't harm "our" credibility even if something does go poorly occasionally.

I don't see why we should pretend they're the same.

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## Chris LXXIX (Oct 31, 2017)

ErinM31 said:


> Certainly that encourages and "rewards" stupid and irresponsible behavior. I haven't a clue on the percentages and perhaps we would also need to examine labels, but I'm sure there are many people who handle quietly by themselves, no audience, newsfeed, etc. I don't often handle my tarantulas and several not at all, but when I do, I'm by myself, seated on the floor in a closed room, focused solely on the tarantula, rather meditative actually. Am I weird? Lol, I already know that I am, but whether this is one more aspect or is something others do as well I could not say.


Yeah... those (like you) are the other 5%, but it's different because 'if eyes don't see, heart don't bleed'


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## Ztesch (Oct 31, 2017)

I have handled my A. Metallica and C. Versicolor a couple times.. Mostly its just a product of them running out on a rehouse.  Its nothing that I plan on doing all the time but once in a blue moon for educational purposes, I don't see it as to big a deal.

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## Chris LXXIX (Oct 31, 2017)

Mentat Ix said:


> There's a world of difference between making a spectacle of yourself on youtube doing foolish things and handling a T that tolerates it well in a responsible manner.


And, while I still disagree (the fact that _seems _that certain T's tolerate handling doesn't mean that much) I can try to understand that. Me, Chris LXXIX.

But try to explain to a judge (obviously quite ignorant when it comes to arachnids, and btw let's be real, we can't pretend, at the same time, that they should) that such a huge hairy black/brown/whatever spider is 'harmless'. Good luck with that.

I know what I'm talking about, I live in a nation that put a ban on the animals that we love to keep and that we 'view' as granted by God everyday. They aren't.

You simply can't explain something like what you just said to me so easily to the average scared of T's man, not to the uneducated, especially when those lasts have the power to judge 'you', in a court, protected by the 'shield' of laws.

You know what a scared of T's (but at least fair enough and with two brain cells working) man expects/pretends?

To see a _Pterinochilus_ _murinus _(mere example) *inside *an enclosure, and not crawling in someone's hand/back etc in YT.

Frankly, since I'd love (like others) to point out how much potent and painful their venom is, I can't disagree with said (hypothetical) random man legit expectation.

I know that the average man scared of T's is "ignorant and annoying", but happens that they are majority, according to the law of numbers.

But a community that keeps venomous inverts in a serious way, with a mix of scientific and why not, passion, is more hard to harm than one without credibility. As I've said, handlers have zero credibility. No matter who they are.

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## Garth Vader (Oct 31, 2017)

@Chris LXXIX do people hold tarantulas and take selfies?  I have never seen such a thing, although I suppose the internet is full of many strange wonders. 

A bit off topic, I realize, but I am curious- Was there a specific incident, or incidents, that led to the T ban in Italy?  It seems like it is a big hobby in some other parts of Europe, so what happened there?  Also if this has been posted before (seems like many things have) feel free to point me in the right direction. I'm just a curious newbie.

Reactions: Love 1


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## Chris LXXIX (Oct 31, 2017)

spidertherapy78 said:


> @Chris LXXIX do people hold tarantulas and take selfies?  I have never seen such a thing, although I suppose the internet is full of many strange wonders.


There's people out there that would love to have a selfie even with the spirit of John Wayne Gacy so you never know 



spidertherapy78 said:


> A bit off topic, I realize, but I am curious- Was there a specific incident, or incidents, that led to the T ban in Italy?  It seems like it is a big hobby in some other parts of Europe, so what happened there?  Also if this has been posted before (seems like many things have) feel free to point me in the right direction. I'm just a curious newbie.


Still today what happened is controversial and I don't believe that: "a container (lol) full of T's and scorpions (aw, no 'pedes, btw?) crashed in Roma airport (lol) and buggers went all over the place, and the people freaked out". 

Yeah, sure. Why no one ever saw a pic, to begin with? Happened in 2003, not during the unification 

What happened is this, simply this, the usual story: the wrong people with the power for do something, simply decided that.

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## miss moxie (Oct 31, 2017)

Look, it's pretty simple. I don't hold my tarantula BECAUSE I don't like it when my tarantula holds me.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Informative 1 | Funny 1


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## Garth Vader (Oct 31, 2017)

miss moxie said:


> Look, it's pretty simple. I don't hold my tarantula BECAUSE I don't like it when my tarantula holds me.


Dude. Your new avatar pic is great!

Reactions: Love 1


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## miss moxie (Oct 31, 2017)

spidertherapy78 said:


> Dude. Your new avatar pic is great!


I don't wanna derail the topic more than my unserious answer did, but thank you! I was going for "Tommy Lee Jones's portrayal of Two Face."

Reactions: Like 2


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## Garth Vader (Oct 31, 2017)

Chris LXXIX said:


> There's people out there that would love to have a selfie even with the spirit of John Wayne Gacy so you never know
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh come on.  I bet you are all over social media posting selfies with your Goddess and your 'pede. 

Wow that is quite the story about the Roma airport.  It seems like with all the problems in the world, creating laws about this seems, eh, unnecessary.  
I hope that doesn't happen in the US, although these days it seems like any kind of madness is quite possible over here.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Venom1080 (Oct 31, 2017)

Mentat Ix said:


> You're not wrong, I guess. But to me that argument misses the point.
> 
> The same argument can be made for even owning a tarantula. Unless you're actively engaged in a conservation effort, it's selfish, unnecessary and of no benefit to the tarantula. Heck, the same argument could be made for almost all "exotic" pets. And yet, everyone loves the guy at the expo with the giant "super tame" tegu.
> 
> Still, I don't totally disagree with you. Like I said, I have several Ts and I don't handle them - most of the ones I have are beyond my level of acceptable risk to handle, and I frankly don't see the point. Different strokes for different folks, though. It'll take more than someone handling their rose hair for kicks to automatically convince me they're a "lesser keeper" or somehow morally bankrupt.


I don't know what you're getting at. Not handling is as simple as not opening the cage and prodding the spider up on you.

Morally bankrupt? That's an interesting way of putting it..
But yes, when a keeper consistently handles, that just tells me that they like to feel ballsy or cool rather then trying to keep the animal in best conditions.

They're not the scum of the earth, but they are def near the bottom of the ladder in the hobby..

@ErinM31   if there were  no cons then I wouldn't care so much. But there are plenty. And no benefits. 

You say that like you think there's nothing wrong with handling. 

Handling is a stupid stunt that the hobby I hope grows out of..

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Staehilomyces (Oct 31, 2017)

It's a no from me. I've only ever kept slings (don't even have any of those at the moment), but whatever tarantulas I end up getting, I won't be handling them, especially as all the ones available to us are defensive OWs. Don't want a bite, plus I've seen too many horror stories about tarantulas being injured as a result of handling.
But then I do handle centipedes, so maybe I'm just the world's biggest hypocrite.

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1


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## Pokie11 (Oct 31, 2017)

I did, few times. I am not handling them now, but I am not against it. I understand that some people like to handle them, and if they are doing it right (not in big heights) and not too often, then I think it's acceptable.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


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## Mentat Ix (Oct 31, 2017)

Venom1080 said:


> But yes, when a keeper consistently handles, that just tells me that they like to feel ballsy or cool rather then trying to keep the animal in best conditions.


This right here is my point. All it tells me is that they disagree with you on a topic that has different pros and cons to different people and different situations. 

I'm of the opinion that a grown man is capable of assessing the risk of handling a tarantula in his collection, in full knowledge of the risks and consequences, and making up his own mind. If that decision isn't the same as I would have made, that's OK.

I don't understand the need to make everything to make everything so black and white, especially on topics that have very little consequence.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Venom1080 (Oct 31, 2017)

Mentat Ix said:


> This right here is my point. All it tells me is that they disagree with you on a topic that has different pros and cons to different people and different situations.
> 
> I'm of the opinion that a grown man is capable of assessing the risk of handling a tarantula in his collection, in full knowledge of the risks and consequences, and making up his own mind. If that decision isn't the same as I would have made, that's OK.
> 
> I don't understand the need to make everything to make everything so black and white, especially on topics that have very little consequence.


The only pros handling has is that it can show non keepers that Tarantulas aren't evil monsters. But even that has risks. I saw a thread about a demonstration that ended with a ruptured abdomen.

If you think there is possibly any others, please enlighten me.

Of course he can. Many poor keepers do.

Little consequence for us. The spider just thinks its about to die. And that's assuming it's a tolerant NW species.

@Staehilomyces  centipedes and tarantulas are quite different. Centipedes adapt. Tarantula don't.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Mentat Ix (Oct 31, 2017)

Chris LXXIX said:


> And, while I still disagree (the fact that _seems _that certain T's tolerate handling doesn't mean that much) I can try to understand that. Me, Chris LXXIX.
> 
> But try to explain to a judge (obviously quite ignorant when it comes to arachnids, and btw let's be real, we can't pretend, at the same time, that they should) that such a huge hairy black/brown/whatever spider is 'harmless'. Good luck with that.
> 
> ...


I don't discount your experience at all, and you've certainly given me something to think on.

I just think there are plenty of tarantulas one can handle with reasonably small risk, and someone making that decision isn't necessarily without credibility. Certainly, I have no respect for the guys on youtube poking and prodding their P. metallica trying to make it jump or whatever, and spreading misinformation as they do it.

That's not every "handler", though. To me, that's a separate and much more serious issue.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Lil Paws (Oct 31, 2017)

I considered it with our B. Albo and G. Pulchripes. I even bought the B. Albo with the idea of having a T we could hold. But their body language tells me they want no part of me (unless I have food—haha). I'm simply a big dumb predator to them. I respect that and prefer not to force any animal into doing something that unnecessarily stresses it out. Then the more I read, the more it seems like a risk not worth taking. I probably could deal with being bit or haired and keeping my cool enough to not fling a spider as I have a high pain threshold. But I don't want to risk my kid being bit, and she would really be upset to know I could handle the Ts and she couldn't so I need to set a good example.

We also have dogs and cats who would happily make a meal of an escapee. They aren't allowed into the classroom we keep the Ts in, but why take a chance? We find that the spiders are plenty entertaining and awesome without picking them up. There's no reason to risk upsetting or hurting anyone if it's not necessary.

But I did buy hissing roaches so we have invertebrates we can pick up. We may also try beetles or mantises as well—or maybe a large jumping spider. We are discovering keeping invertebrates can be an addictive hobby.

Reactions: Like 1 | Love 1


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## Nightstalker47 (Oct 31, 2017)

chanda said:


> There is inherent risk in many common activities.


There's a major difference between inherent risk and unnecessary risk. I think the effort your putting into educating kids on theses creatures is admirable. But I don't see why it's necessary to handle.

If educating is your main goal, then why not do it from a safe distance. Wouldn't you want your students to know spiders aren't to be touched? Making them think they are friendly/tolerant is somewhat misleading. I usually show guests how the spiders feed, and that's about it.

When my little brother has his friends over(9 year olds) and they want to see the tarantulas I make certain to thoroughly explain that all the animals in question are not to be touched, ever. And that they must stay very calm when around them.

I make that very clear, and explain that they don't want anything to do with us. Usually I start off by depicting the nature of spiders. I show that they are sit and wait predators, and that in the wild being well hidden is how they stay alive.

Once the kids understand that the spiders view us as a potential threat they immediately connect the dots on why they shouldn't be touched. Most of the time they are mesmerized rather then fearful.

I could never feel comfortable removing any spider from its enclosure to show them, there's too much room for error. Focusing on kids, the loose spider and attempting to talk/educate is easier said then done. If they want to get a closer look I show them molts, they usually get a good kick out of that. And even sometimes ask me if they can have a molt to bring home.

Reactions: Like 5 | Agree 2


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## Garth Vader (Oct 31, 2017)

Lil Paws said:


> But I don't want to risk my kid being bit, and she would really be upset to know I could handle the Ts and she couldn't so I need to set a good example.
> 
> We also have dogs and cats who would happily make a meal of an escapee. They aren't allowed into the classroom we keep the Ts in, but why take a chance? We find that the spiders are plenty entertaining and awesome without picking them up. There's no reason to risk upsetting or hurting anyone if it's not necessary.


You make good points here. IMO it is one thing if you choose to handle on your own, but if your kid is part of the hobby then you increase the likelihood that they will try to get into the enclosure and handle. You also increase the risk of the animal escaping which puts all people and other animals in the house at risk, not to mention the T. This is what I think of when people say it is selfish.

My 3 year old "helps" with my Ts and seems to understand not to touch (they are locked up just in case though)  We went out to dinner recently in a restaurant with lots of Halloween decorations, including fake spider webs with big spiders on them. I pointed and poked one with my finger and she yelled "no, mommy don't touch the spider!" Lol. So she seems to get it!

Reactions: Like 3 | Funny 1 | Love 2


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## Lil Paws (Oct 31, 2017)

If someone chooses to handle their Ts—taking proper precautions against injuries—and their spiders show no signs of stress, I can't judge. Given how personalities seem to vary within individual animals (let alone species), perhaps there are Ts who may *like* to explore on their people. It's not a risk I am comfortable taking given our situation, but that may not be the case for another household. 

That said, it's probably a good idea to be very careful about letting non-family members handle your exotics. Any exotic animal that has the potential to bite and cause a reaction (be it venom or disease) could cause a potential lawsuit if the wrong person gets bit. My father was an attorney and told me a couple stories about clients who lost pets this way (mostly mammals, but I could see people freaking about over T venom). I know it's unlikely, but it's another thing that comes to mind with handling them in our home—especially if my child has friends over.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Lil Paws (Oct 31, 2017)

spidertherapy78 said:


> You make good points here. IMO it is one thing if you choose to handle on your own, but if your kid is part of the hobby then you increase the likelihood that they will try to get into the enclosure and handle. You also increase the risk of the animal escaping which puts all people and other animals in the house at risk, not to mention the T. This is what I think of when people say it is selfish.
> 
> My 3 year old "helps" with my Ts and seems to understand not to touch (they are locked up just in case though)  We went out to dinner recently in a restaurant with lots of Halloween decorations, including fake spider webs with big spiders on them. I pointed and poked one with my finger and she yelled "no, mommy don't touch the spider!" Lol. So she seems to get it!



Thank you!  That is so sweet with your 3 YO being so cautious and protective. I just found the coolest thing for a young T enthusiast. We do the Switch Witch for Halloween (trading some of the candy for a prize) and this will be the prize from the witch for this year: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003H6B0GW/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

That will be a spider she can hold.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Chris LXXIX (Oct 31, 2017)

Mentat Ix said:


> That's not every "handler", though. To me, that's a separate and much more serious issue.


This is the point, my man. *You *know that. *I *know that. *Others *here (despite their views about the 'handling' issue) knows that.

I'm not here saying that every 'T's handler' is only a voyeurist selfish (even if I think that, without the Internet audience, 95% of those will disappear).

I'm not saying that, if someone loves to handle, that someone is necessarily an unexperienced one, because, honestly, there's plenty of class A breeders/sellers (including here on this Forum) that are 'under' the 'handling influence' 

I'm saying, basically, that, _when the .... hits the fan_ (and can happens) credibility is key. Credibility is everything. Trust me... you can't even think to have a "chair" for sit at the table with the system, without that.

For instance, 'you' can be the best and honest man ever, but with tattoos all over the body, very long hairs etc no one here in Italy will give to 'you' a chance for work in certain places. Yeah, it's wrong? Debatable? Whatever? Probably, but still a fact.

Anyway,* we *managed to save the T's (*every *T's, no matter speed/venom potency/level of defensiveness etc) because *we *showed, to the (Italian) system, like a straight hard 'finger' at their face... that *we *are serious enthusiasts, breeders, keepers, arachnids scholars, and not a joke that can put at risk their freaking 'gardens/house/childrens' etc (let's consider always that those fellas in charge doesn't care at all about T's health, parameters, everything... but about their fears that _they do not want to overcome_ and nothing more).

Happened that T's (and other Arachnids) were 'saved', and that (absurd) law very softened. And happened due to credibility because scientific facts (e.g 'OBT' venom isn't deadly etc) alone weren't enough.

View my comments about this subject as mere and vulgar  'food for brain' that never harms to know, no matter your viewpoint about, because you are free to act as you want for me

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Chris LXXIX (Oct 31, 2017)

spidertherapy78 said:


> Oh come on. I bet you are all over social media posting selfies with your Goddess and your 'pede.


Only when amateur porn movies are concerned enter Captain *Goddess** and his lovely, hidden in the underwear, pretty hardy 'pede' 

One of my motto is: "Filthy acts always at a very reasonable price"

Reactions: Funny 1


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## JoshDM020 (Oct 31, 2017)

Tarantulas, no. IMO, if you want to handle a spider, find a jumping spider. They arent as big, but theyre far less likely to freak out, in my experience, anyways. I catch em around my house and handle them until i take them somewhere else.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Chickenfeeder100 (Oct 31, 2017)

i hold wolf spiders and lead them to the cricket rock. (basically a rock that crickets like to be on for some reason)


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## Hiruma26 (Oct 31, 2017)

Nope, atleast not anymore. One of the reason I entered this hobby is seeing people handling 4-5-6 inches Tarantulas like it doesn't have fangs and venom. For me it's kinna cool. Then I started acquiring species that can be handled if done carefully. Knowing that this serves no advantage to the Ts I handled them and realized I am more stressed than the Tarantula on my hand! The fall, the bite, the hairs, I'm worrying all of this while handling the T, which I'm supposed to be enjoying. So yeah, I don't handle them anymore. What fuels this hobby now for me is obtaining rare and interesting species and providing the most realistic enclosures!

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Poec54 (Oct 31, 2017)

Tim Benzedrine said:


> LOL! I was gonna make that reference myself!
> 
> Crap. Poec and I share the same source of amusement? It's a sign of the apocalypse, people.
> 
> Let's show them what we are referring to, Poec!



Didn't know if anyone would catch that reference.


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## Poec54 (Oct 31, 2017)

Hiruma26 said:


> Nope, atleast not anymore. One of the reason I entered this hobby is seeing people handling 4-5-6 inches Tarantulas like it doesn't have fangs and venom. For me it's kinna cool. Then I started acquiring species that can be handled if done carefully. Knowing that this serves no advantage to the Ts I handled them and realized I am more stressed than the Tarantula on my hand! The fall, the bite, the hairs, I'm worrying all of this while handling the T, which I'm supposed to be enjoying. So yeah, I don't handle them anymore. What fuels this hobby now for me is obtaining rare and interesting species and providing the most realistic enclosures!



Glad to hear of your conversion.  Even I handled back in the 1970's, but soon saw the pointlessness of it.  In today's hobby with so many high strung tropicals, and potent OW's, handling should be discouraged across-the-board.  When people look at things from a spider's perspective, handling seems pretty stupid_.  "Hey everybody, look at me!  I'm holding a big spider!"_

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## 14pokies (Oct 31, 2017)

Oh look another handling thread/debate on Arachnoboards.. How interesting ..  

Psa,  the op created the thread without offering any opinion or context for asking the question, only to return twice with one line responses.  Do you guys ever wonder if maybe your being lured into a pointless debate for the sake of the OP's entertainment? 

I would love to see this thread, along with others like it shut down and buried in the same unmarked ditch as shipping threads.

Reactions: Love 1


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## Trenor (Oct 31, 2017)

14pokies said:


> Oh look another handling thread/debate on Arachnoboards.. How interesting ..
> 
> Psa,  the op created the thread without offering any opinion or context for asking the question, only to return twice with one line responses.  Do you guys ever wonder if maybe your being lured into a pointless debate for the sake of the OP's entertainment?
> 
> I would love to see this thread, along with others like it shut down and buried in the same unmarked ditch as shipping threads.


Then what would people have to argue about? Why are you trying to take away all the fun?

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Hiruma26 (Oct 31, 2017)

Poec54 said:


> Glad to hear of your conversion.  Even I handled back in the 1970's, but soon saw the pointlessness of it.  In today's hobby with so many high strung tropicals, and potent OW's, handling should be discouraged across-the-board.  When people look at things from a spider's perspective, handling seems pretty stupid_.  "Hey everybody, look at me!  I'm holding a big spider!"_


 Exactly. At 1st I was like, "woah look at these people holding a huge spider! I wanna hold one too!". 1st time it was like "this is so coooolll!". 2nd time, staring at the Ts, with a poker face, while they desperately crawl and try to get their legs off my skin. 3rd time, there is no 3rd time. For me, seeing them webbing their enclosures, excavating holes, and murdering crickets is way more enjoyable than handling. Don't get me wrong I will still probably handle them but ONLY IF I NEED TOO, like when they stroll out on spot cleaning and such. But just for the sake of holding them, nope.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Mentat Ix (Oct 31, 2017)

14pokies said:


> Oh look another handling thread/debate on Arachnoboards.. How interesting ..
> 
> I would love to see this thread, along with others like it shut down and buried in the same unmarked ditch as shipping threads.


Sorry to ruin your day. 

I kind of like discussing my interests on discussion forums. Since I try not to chime in where I'm not koalified, I have to aim for the low hanging fruit.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## 14pokies (Oct 31, 2017)

Mentat Ix said:


> Sorry to ruin your day.
> 
> I kind of like discussing my interests on discussion forums. Since I try not to chime in where I'm not koalified, I have to aim for the low hanging fruit.


Good for you..


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## BoyFromLA (Oct 31, 2017)

There’s an anime called ‘Macross’ aka ‘Robotech’ in US.

To a talantula’s point of view, it would be like this, I think...

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Chris LXXIX (Oct 31, 2017)

BoyFromLA said:


> There’s an anime called ‘Macross’ aka ‘Robotech’ in US.
> 
> To a talantula’s point of view, it would be like this, I think...


Ah ah, I remember Macross'


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## Chris LXXIX (Oct 31, 2017)

Mentat Ix said:


> I have to aim for the low hanging fruit.


Couldn't understand anything  but cracked me up because I imagined 'Wonder Boy' collecting fruit


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## Poec54 (Oct 31, 2017)

Hiruma26 said:


> For me, seeing them webbing their enclosures, excavating holes, and murdering crickets is way more enjoyable than handling.



Agreed.  A tarantula owner's joy should be seeing his spiders act as they do in the wild, to dig, spin, climb, & hunt.  _That's_ the goal.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## miss moxie (Oct 31, 2017)

JoshDM020 said:


> until i take them somewhere else.


This sounds so ominous.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## miss moxie (Oct 31, 2017)

Trenor said:


> Then what would people have to argue about? Why are you trying to take away all the fun?


Guess we'd all have to settle for "How communal are...*insert name like "L. violaceopes" or "B. smithi" here*" threads instead. It'd be tough...but I think we could get by.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## JoshDM020 (Oct 31, 2017)

miss moxie said:


> This sounds so ominous.


I mean... yeah. Understandable. 
They either go in my closet with the rest of my many-legged "companions" or outside. So far, ive managed to refrain from adding any more jumpers than the three i have enclosures for.


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## miss moxie (Oct 31, 2017)

JoshDM020 said:


> I mean... yeah. Understandable.
> They either go in my closet with the rest of my many-legged "companions" or outside. So far, ive managed to refrain from adding any more jumpers than the three i have enclosures for.


So the story could end with them being kept in your closet? Still sounds ominous. What a great Halloween tale!

Reactions: Funny 3


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## chanda (Nov 1, 2017)

Nightstalker47 said:


> There's a major difference between inherent risk and unnecessary risk. I think the effort your putting into educating kids on theses creatures is admirable. But I don't see why it's necessary to handle.
> 
> If educating is your main goal, then why not do it from a safe distance. Wouldn't you want your students to know spiders aren't to be touched? Making them think they are friendly/tolerant is somewhat misleading. I usually show guests how the spiders feed, and that's about it.
> 
> ...


Is it _necessary_ to handle the spiders? No. I could teach the kids about spiders without handling one. During the summer I may have a couple dozen different spiders - as well as an assortment of other bugs - in my classroom, and the majority of them are _not_ handled. We observe them in their enclosures. We talk about them and watch videos. We go on "nature walks" down to the garden or the bushes around the parking lot to observe the bugs and spiders in their natural envirovment. We examine dead specimens and molts up close. But handling some of the live specimens - particularly the tarantula - does get the kids' attention - and for some of the more frightened kids, it helps to demonstrate that the big, scary spider isn't really so scary after all. I feel that it really adds a level of impact to the lesson and makes it more personal and less abstract if I take a few of my pets out of their cages for a few minutes and let the kids see them up close, without intervening glass or plastic.

Besides, with kids it isn't just a case of "monkey see, monkey do." The words that accompany the action are part of the lesson. Even though the kids see me handling a spider, I also tell them very clearly that _they_ should not go picking up any spiders that they find, because some spiders can be dangerous. I can only do so because I have a lot more experience than they do, both at recognizing spiders and knowing which are dangerous, and at knowing how to handle them. Like many other activities - such as driving a car, working with power tools, lighting a fire, or approaching a stray dog - the kids know that these are things that it's ok for adults to do because we have the knowledge and experience to do so safely - but they are not ok for kids to do because they lack that knowledge and experience and could end up getting hurt or hurting someone else. 

When I bring out a tarantula (or scorpion or snake or some other pet) to show the kids, I start by emphasizing that this is a living animal and not just a cool toy. I point out to them how the animal is behaving inside its enclosure and explain some of the different reactions it might have if it is frightened - such as retreating, hiding inside its shelter or burrow, adopting a threat pose, or kicking hairs. If it does any of these things, I tell the kids that it is indicating a desire to be left alone - and that I must respect that and not pick it up. (This doesn't happen often, since the only animals I even consider picking up are the most docile and cooperative, most of which will just walk right onto my hand - but when it happens, we bypass that animal and leave it alone.) I instruct the children to be aware of their own actions, to sit quietly on the floor, remain calm, and not make sudden moves, so they do not frighten the animals. I also tell them about the risks involved in handling the animal - and the steps I am taking - such as keeping the animal close to the floor, moving slowly, or using both hands to make sure it is adequately supported - to keep it safe.

Many of the children have seen tarantulas being held somewhere already, whether it's on a YouTube video or a nature show, or at a kids' party, or a museum or children's zoo. There's the dealer at the reptile expo that was charging people $5 apiece to hold one of his tarantulas for a picture. (Yes, this really happened - and they were not holding it above a table or other raised surface. They were just casually passing it around while _standing_ on the concrete floor.) There's the reptile party guy who plops his token tarantula on top of the birthday boy or girl's head. There's the "traveling zoo" guy who lets the kids crowd around and take turns holding his Chilean Rose. They have any number of examples of careless, irresponsible handling that are already giving them the message that it's ok to treat the tarantula like a prop in a photo booth. At least I am emphasizing for them that it is a living, breathing creature, pointing out the risks involved in handling, and giving them an example of _responsible_ handling where the well-being of the tarantula is considered.

To handle or not to handle is a personal decision that each keeper must make. Some people never handle their tarantulas, and I applaud them for that. Other people enjoy handling their tarantulas. And yes, I am one of those people, even though I only do it a few times a year. As long as the keeper is being careful, taking all reasonable steps to minimize risk to himself, the spider, or others around them, and doing what he can to protect the health and safety of his spider, I'm ok with that. I will, however, advise novice keepers against handling, because they lack the experience and knowledge to handle their spiders safely. I don't believe that one should get a tarantula _just_ so they can hold it and impress their friends or look cool on YouTube. I do not approve of irresponsible handling that puts the spider (or people) at risk, but I do believe that careful, responsible handling _is_ possible.

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 1 | Sad 1


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## Poec54 (Nov 2, 2017)

chanda said:


> There is inherent risk in many common activities. After reducing the risk as much as possible, the question one has to ask is whether the potential gain (in this case, educating children, demystifying spiders, and helping some of them to get over a fear of bugs and spiders) outweighs the remaining risk. Of course the tarantula *could* decide to lash out without advance warning - but it is unlikely to do so, particularly when I am very careful to avoid moving quickly or doing anything that might startle it.



That's just it.  What's the educational benefit of a handling demonstration when the spider runs up someone's arm and onto their back, the person gets bit, or the spider falls and is injured/killed?  That scares people and makes them more afraid of spiders.  In spite of anything said to the contrary, virtually everyone there will walk away thinking any tarantula can be handled.  They're not going to remember which species are calmer, or high strung, or have potent venoms.  It's exactly because of handling demonstrations that the internet is full of idiots handling OW's, putting them on their head, and even in their mouth.  When you handle, the audience doesn't hear "Don't try this at home."  They remember the visual, and some want to do it with any tarantula.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Poec54 (Nov 2, 2017)

Chris LXXIX said:


> It's a question of attitude. Because, frankly, I think that the 95% (and I'm kind) of 'handlers' wouldn't do anymore that without the Internet and their likes/views/audience to please. Like those selfie addicted - always online, always 'social' - folks, they are voyeurists to the bone.




It's all about "Me, me, me!"

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Poec54 (Nov 2, 2017)

miss moxie said:


> I don't wanna derail the topic more than my unserious answer did, but thank you! I was going for "Tommy Lee Jones's portrayal of Two Face."



'Dude'?  Is there something about you we don't know?


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## miss moxie (Nov 2, 2017)

Poec54 said:


> 'Dude'?  Is there something about you we don't know?


Oh, of that I am *positive*.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Nightstalker47 (Nov 2, 2017)

Poec54 said:


> In spite of anything said to the contrary, virtually everyone there will walk away thinking any tarantula can be handled.  They're not going to remember which species are calmer, or high strung, or have potent venoms.  It's exactly because of handling demonstrations that the internet is full of idiots handling OW's


Completely agree man, if handling was discouraged across the board new keepers would be much more hesitant before attempting those stunts. Oddly enough they seem get away with it most of the time, but that doesn't make it any less perilous.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Trenor (Nov 2, 2017)

Thread summary:
Handling.... Blah blah blah BAD Blah blah blah GOOD Blah blah blah Protect people from themselves Blah blah blah Big Deal.

Reactions: Like 2 | Disagree 1 | Funny 1


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## Lil Paws (Nov 2, 2017)

Hiruma26 said:


> Exactly. At 1st I was like, "woah look at these people holding a huge spider! I wanna hold one too!". 1st time it was like "this is so coooolll!". 2nd time, staring at the Ts, with a poker face, while they desperately crawl and try to get their legs off my skin. 3rd time, there is no 3rd time. For me, seeing them webbing their enclosures, excavating holes, and murdering crickets is way more enjoyable than handling. Don't get me wrong I will still probably handle them but ONLY IF I NEED TOO, like when they stroll out on spot cleaning and such. But just for the sake of holding them, nope.


That's exactly how I feel. It's about respecting your animal's comfort levels. *If* a spider actually wants to go for a ride or needs to quickly be moved (and there's no time to grab a cup), that's one thing. If it's not urgent, they don't want to be near you and get stressed by being handled by us gigantic alpha predators, it's a sign it's just not meant to be. I do believe some people actually do have Ts who gravitate to handling, but that's not in the cards for us and I'm more than okay with it (hence, why we own hissing roaches—who are cute and hardy  ). I love our Ts regardless.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Peacockgar51 (Nov 2, 2017)

Yes occasionally. I handle my pink toe and Mexican curly hair. The curly does like to kick hairs sometimes but my pink toe is a sweetie. She cuddles up in my and becomes relaxed when I pet her.


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## Nightstalker47 (Nov 2, 2017)

Peacockgar51 said:


> Yes occasionally. I handle my pink toe and Mexican curly hair. The curly does like to kick hairs sometimes but my pink toe is a sweetie. She cuddles up in my and becomes relaxed when I pet her.


Oh boy...read up on your pets man that's complete misinterpation.

Reactions: Agree 5


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## Peacockgar51 (Nov 2, 2017)

Nightstalker47 said:


> Oh boy...read up on your pets man that's complete misinterpation.


Wdym? My curly hair kicks hairs sometimes. My Pinktoe is very nice. Sometimes nervous but LOVES being handled. Only do it every other week

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## JoshDM020 (Nov 2, 2017)

Peacockgar51 said:


> Wdym? My curly hair kicks hairs sometimes. My Pinktoe is very nice. Sometimes nervous but LOVES being handled. Only do it every other week


He means, if its rubbing its abdomen against you in response to petting, it isnt "cuddling". Thats how Avics and relatives disperse urticating hairs.

Reactions: Agree 3 | Funny 1


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## miss moxie (Nov 2, 2017)

Haaaaa, gotta love a newbie who thinks their Avic loves bum rubs. I think this is one of @Ungoliant's favorite topics.

They're right though. Avicularia/Caribena/Ybyrapora cannot kick hairs, but they do rub/touch their abdomen against things to either lay down urticating hairs to keep predators out of their homes, or they rub/touch their abdomen against a predator to hurt them.

You're the predator, in this situation. The will only ever see you as a potential threat. They're not dumb as rocks like some people think but they're not exactly "advanced" either.


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## Chris LXXIX (Nov 2, 2017)

Poec54 said:


> It's all about "Me, me, me!"


Well, speaking considering the Italian point of view, we are lucky here, because handling is for real a 'no way' subject, there isn't an _area_ where can enters every kind of (right or wrong, debatable or not etc) points of view. It's a 'my way or the highway', in fact if someone post 'handling' pictures or in a thread starts to talk about the "best way for handle" and something those thread/pics are shut down in the blink of an eye.

But we had an arachnids ban... and, even if that wasn't related to bites/escapes/handling, no one wants to act reckless, no one wants to deal again with an arachnid 'famine' that, as you can imagine, isn't exactly a good thing.

Not even a couple of months after the ban, and my nation turned (arachnids talking) into a 'war zone', from all the variety/colours/whatever you wanted to a situation where all of a sudden even an always hated, always disliked _Lasiodora parahybana_ was gold. Pure gold.

Sometimes in life we realize how much important things were only when we lose those. Now I don't think that something like we faced here in Italy will/can happens in the U.S (too much differences to consider), I'm not here saying this, but those era we are living in (big governments, 'nanny' nations etc) require a bit of caution

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## MrTwister (Nov 2, 2017)

Mine only get handled if they get in the way of my bass strings. Head stock and tuners is cool man. Stay off the fret board man.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Lil Paws (Nov 2, 2017)

I think I could see the US banning large snakes (if not all boids as government officials wouldn't care to deal with classification) over most invertebrates. There are many Burmese Pythons getting lose in Florida and other warm states, and they are quite dangerous when they reach full size. The way bans on animals here usually take place on a city or state level over a federal one—and there are too many states (like Texas and Nevada) who would not have anything to do with it.


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## miss moxie (Nov 2, 2017)

MrTwister said:


> Mine only get handled if they get in the way of my bass strings. Head stock and tuners is cool man. Stay off the fret board man.


This reference will never die and will always boggle people who are new or missed it. Though, ironically, it's the first suggested similar threads at the bottom of this page.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## Lil Paws (Nov 2, 2017)

MrTwister said:


> Mine only get handled if they get in the way of my bass strings. Head stock and tuners is cool man. Stay off the fret board man.


Sounds like an itchy way to strum.


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## mikeinla (Nov 4, 2017)

I never handle. Don't like flicking hairs

Reactions: Like 1


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## Peacockgar51 (Nov 5, 2017)

miss moxie said:


> Haaaaa, gotta love a newbie who thinks their Avic loves bum rubs. I think this is one of @Ungoliant's favorite topics.
> 
> They're right though. Avicularia/Caribena/Ybyrapora cannot kick hairs, but they do rub/touch their abdomen against things to either lay down urticating hairs to keep predators out of their homes, or they rub/touch their abdomen against a predator to hurt them.
> 
> You're the predator, in this situation. The will only ever see you as a potential threat. They're not dumb as rocks like some people think but they're not exactly "advanced" either.


Oh this does make sense lol. Dumb me


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## miss moxie (Nov 6, 2017)

Peacockgar51 said:


> Oh this does make sense lol. Dumb me


Don't worry about it, it's more common than you think. It's hard separating the behavior of furry friends to our inverts. When a cat rubs against you, s/he's marking you with their scent to let others know you are theirs and they like you so paws off. What an Avicularia rubs against you...

Well s/he's telling you to get -your- paws off.


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## JavaJacketOC (Nov 6, 2017)

I only handle when necessary, I prefer to observer and watch them grow.


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## FrDoc (Nov 6, 2017)

Negative.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shampain88 (Nov 6, 2017)

I've handled almost all my pets but I've started to resist the urge as I grow in the hobby, nothing good comes of it, in fact it can only end in mishap eventually so for theirs and my safety I don't do it anymore...

Reactions: Like 1


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