# moms eating her babies how to stop?



## habnoji (May 19, 2010)

I bought a black Asian forest scorpion 8 months ago and today she had babies the problem is she is eating them I have about 8 chrickets in the tank for food how do I stop her from eating them? There was about 25 to start im down to about 15 now?


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## Anastasia (May 19, 2010)

did you tried to troubleshoot her? or  Suggested to stop eating her kids?
Ah, Am kidding
well I have that happened before, and usually when there is something wrong with offspring's they get eaten
all healthy ones make just fine
I wish I can help more


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## super-pede (May 19, 2010)

once they molt into second instar you can separate them from the mother


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## SixShot666 (May 19, 2010)

First you should probably remove those crickets from the enclosure. They're probably stressing her out. As for her eating the scorplings, there's really nothing much you can do until they molt into their 2nd instar. Then I would separate the little one from the mother.


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## inverts (May 19, 2010)

I agree with SixShot666. The first step you should take is to remove all of the crickets. Scorpions will not usually accept prey items just before or just after giving birth, so leaving them in the tank will produce unnecessary stress for the mother.


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## DireWolf0384 (May 20, 2010)

Crickets tend to stress Scorpions out in general. I put about 10 of them with my P. Imperator and found they were overwhelming her. She was literally running from them. After I removed all but 4 or 5 of them, she calmed down. I would remove them all. Also it may be a good idea to try and stay away from the enclosure as much as possible.


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## habnoji (May 23, 2010)

Im sorry to say my scorpion ate all her babies then last night I found her dead.I dont understand why she died.I'm really upset my wife doesnt understand why im upset in her words (its a bug)ewww.Well I liked it! After the babies issue, this sparked something in me.I am now looking for a few new scorpions and will set up a really nice 55 gal and try to breed them.Only issue is I live in Conn.You cant get them in my state I was on buisness in mississippi and brought mine back.I would like to get some more black forest scorpions any one know where or who has them.I will travel up to 150 miles to get good healthy pets. I have already started setting up the tank im looking for some plants now.How many can you put in a 55 gal tank will they fight?or should I only put 2. I do know how to sex them I know mine was a female from a book I picked the only female they had.Guess i was correct.


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## H. laoticus (May 24, 2010)

You can buy scorpions online.
Try kenthebugguy.com or tarantulainc.com for starters
We also have the classifieds section here with breeders who can ship them to you.
If you ask, I'm sure they can sex a pair for you too.
You can put quite a few in a 55 gal, but I'm not sure on the numbers, probably more than 10.


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## SixShot666 (May 24, 2010)

habnoji said:


> Im sorry to say my scorpion ate all her babies then last night I found her dead.I dont understand why she died.I'm really upset my wife doesnt understand why im upset in her words (its a bug)ewww.Well I liked it! After the babies issue, this sparked something in me.I am now looking for a few new scorpions and will set up a really nice 55 gal and try to breed them.Only issue is I live in Conn.You cant get them in my state I was on buisness in mississippi and brought mine back.I would like to get some more black forest scorpions any one know where or who has them.I will travel up to 150 miles to get good healthy pets. I have already started setting up the tank im looking for some plants now.How many can you put in a 55 gal tank will they fight?or should I only put 2. I do know how to sex them I know mine was a female from a book I picked the only female they had.Guess i was correct.


Try KentheBugGuy.com he has some really great selection.


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## gromgrom (May 24, 2010)

habnoji said:


> Im sorry to say my scorpion ate all her babies then last night I found her dead.I dont understand why she died.I'm really upset my wife doesnt understand why im upset in her words (its a bug)ewww.Well I liked it! After the babies issue, this sparked something in me.I am now looking for a few new scorpions and will set up a really nice 55 gal and try to breed them.Only issue is I live in Conn.You cant get them in my state I was on buisness in mississippi and brought mine back.I would like to get some more black forest scorpions any one know where or who has them.I will travel up to 150 miles to get good healthy pets. I have already started setting up the tank im looking for some plants now.How many can you put in a 55 gal tank will they fight?or should I only put 2. I do know how to sex them I know mine was a female from a book I picked the only female they had.Guess i was correct.


no offense but if you removed the crickets and left her alone, she probably wouldnt have ate the babies.


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## DireWolf0384 (May 25, 2010)

gromgrom said:


> no offense but if you removed the crickets and left her alone, she probably wouldnt have ate the babies.


Yeah, sadly I think the crickets stressed her out.


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## Michiel (May 26, 2010)

habnoji said:


> I bought a black Asian forest scorpion 8 months ago and today she had babies the problem is she is eating them I have about 8 chrickets in the tank for food how do I stop her from eating them? There was about 25 to start im down to about 15 now?


Start with removing the eight crickets runnning around in the enclosure. these are most probably the stressor that made her eat the young in the first place.
I am sorry to say it, but this is a beginnersmistake. If you would have done your homework, the chance that this would happen was significantly smaller. But I do have to add, that scorpions also sometimes eat their young without an obvious reason. Even if captive conditions are good and there are no stressors.
Next time your scorp has young, remove all prey items and leave it alone, don't look daily or take pics daily. You don't need to feed the mother, you can do that after the young left her.


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## paul fleming (May 26, 2010)

Michiel said:


> Start with removing the eight crickets runnning around in the enclosure. these are most probably the stressor that made her eat the young in the first place.
> *I am sorry to say it, but this is a beginnersmistake. If you would have done your homework, the chance that this would happen was significantly smaller. *But I do have to add, that scorpions also sometimes eat their young without an obvious reason. Even if captive conditions are good and there are no stressors.
> Next time your scorp has young, remove all prey items and leave it alone, don't look daily or take pics daily. You don't need to feed the mother, you can do that after the young left her.


I think the OP is going through enough without a smarty pants coming along and telling them what a bad person they are.
Shame on you .
All they want is help.
No wonder people are worried about asking questions here and then it is the animal that will suffer so well done:clap:


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## Galapoheros (May 26, 2010)

Hi, are you set on getting Asian scorpions(Heterometrus species)?  Ime, Emperor scorpions(Pandinus imperator) tolerate each other a little better and take care of the young a little better.  When I've had emp babies, they run back to the mom if there's danger.  With the few Heterometrus broods I've had, once they are off the mom's back, they're not so happy to run back to mom for protection.  I recently separated the mother from a Heterometrus brood and put in a couple of crushed roaches.  Last night I saw a scorpling carrying around another one having a happy meal so I separated them.


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## Michiel (May 30, 2010)

paul fleming said:


> I think the OP is going through enough without a smarty pants coming along and telling them what a bad person they are.
> Shame on you .
> All they want is help.
> No wonder people are worried about asking questions here and then it is the animal that will suffer so well done:clap:


Come on Paul,

I think that one should know what they are keeping and how they should keep it. Doing your homework, which means nosing around for 15 minutes here one this board, you would have had enough info, is given the species (which is very common in the hobby, so there is a lot of info), not a very difficult or time costing effort. 
Throwing in 8 crickets for one scorpion is not necessary anyway, especially when they are gravid. By the way, I ended my post with some well meant advice, so I was not only being a smarty pants, but I also helped him out a little.
If you are concerned about the animals, you would agree with me. Learn first, then buy....do you buy buy a car before you can drive it?

Regards, Michiel

Regards, Michiel


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## gromgrom (May 31, 2010)

Michiel said:


> Come on Paul,
> 
> I think that one should know what they are keeping and how they should keep it. Doing your homework, which means nosing around for 15 minutes here one this board, you would have had enough info, is given the species (which is very common in the hobby, so there is a lot of info), not a very difficult or time costing effort.
> Throwing in 8 crickets for one scorpion is not necessary anyway, especially when they are gravid. By the way, I ended my post with some well meant advice, so I was not only being a smarty pants, but I also helped him out a little.
> ...


+1 

really, its not that board members are rude, its that the common sense of doing some googling and searching is thrown to the wayside, and the same questions are answered week after week. new hobbyists shouldnt be in the hobby if they arent willing to research the animals they are impulse buying. I say impulse buying because they obviously dont know what theyre buying if they dont know what it even is and how they behave.


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## H. laoticus (May 31, 2010)

Just keep in mind that not every individual may be as resourceful or even have the same resources as you or I.  I know plenty of individuals who don't own a computer nor are they even old enough (perhaps a child) or knowledgeable enough to take advantage of its uses including the internet (ie Google).  They may be a computer from the local library and simply don't have the time to search.  I know that when I found this forum I asked simple questions because I felt this was the site to get any and all of my scorpion needs.  I didn't even think about Googling "scorpion caresheet" and I definitely didn't even think about using the Search function nor did I even see it.  It completely slipped my mind because I found an awesome site full members who shared my same interests.  Some people just don't know how forums operate, like I did!  What I'm trying to say is that there are many different people out there with many different circumstances.  The above may not apply to this individual, but it could very well apply to others.  It's best to simply point them in the right direction with as much courtesy and respect as possible.  If you don't want to answer a question or waste your time because it's too ridiculous of a question for you, then don't.  If you don't have any constructive advice, I'm sure the person would appreciate you keeping it to yourself.  Just remember, you are not obliged in any way to give an answer and your "common sense" is not someone else's.  Welcome newcomers and provide help, this is a community I'm sure we all want to see growing healthily and strong.  

As for habnoji, you can find a variety of information with the Search button above or through Googling, but as a bit of quick advice, provide lots of hides, food, and burrowing substrate if you're planning a large communal tank.


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## FortCooper1982 (May 31, 2010)

Well said...


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## InfestedGoat (May 31, 2010)

To the OP. Sorry for your loss. Better luck next time, eh?

I recommend kenthebugguy.com too. Also, try tarantulainc.com they're sold out of a lot of stuff right now, but keep checking back in.

Do you know what species you'd want to get next? Maybe a desert species, or another forest species? 

Also, 55gal tank 0_0 
You're going to have one HUGE colony right there. I'd like to see how you set it up. Take some pictures of it if you end up doing that. Best of luck!


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## Michiel (May 31, 2010)

H. laoticus said:


> Just keep in mind that not every individual may be as resourceful or even have the same resources as you or I.  I know plenty of individuals who don't own a computer nor are they even old enough (perhaps a child) or knowledgeable enough to take advantage of its uses including the internet (ie Google).  They may be a computer from the local library and simply don't have the time to search.  I know that when I found this forum I asked simple questions because I felt this was the site to get any and all of my scorpion needs.  I didn't even think about Googling "scorpion caresheet" and I definitely didn't even think about using the Search function nor did I even see it.  It completely slipped my mind because I found an awesome site full members who shared my same interests.  Some people just don't know how forums operate, like I did!  What I'm trying to say is that there are many different people out there with many different circumstances.  The above may not apply to this individual, but it could very well apply to others.  It's best to simply point them in the right direction with as much courtesy and respect as possible.  If you don't want to answer a question or waste your time because it's too ridiculous of a question for you, then don't.  If you don't have any constructive advice, I'm sure the person would appreciate you keeping it to yourself.  Just remember, you are not obliged in any way to give an answer and your "common sense" is not someone else's.  Welcome newcomers and provide help, this is a community I'm sure we all want to see growing healthily and strong.
> 
> As for habnoji, you can find a variety of information with the Search button above or through Googling, but as a bit of quick advice, provide lots of hides, food, and burrowing substrate if you're planning a large communal tank.


We have a crusader here,

I suggest you answer all noob questions forthwith! 

but stick to the subject, this guy had a computer, how could he post anyway?We don't see a lot of people who DON't own computers here, don't you think? The above applies to everyone! You known those little organized bunch of papers called books? Not one single thing you said in your post dismisses a person to know what kind of pet one is getting and the responsibility to know how to take care of it.
What I can understand is the fact that if the hobby is new, and websites are new, that one can't find the search function and such. I had the same problem, and I also agree when you say that one should not answer a question when one doesn't want to answer it or feels it is the 100.000.000 time the same question is answered.


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## H. laoticus (May 31, 2010)

Michiel said:


> We have a crusader here,
> 
> I suggest you answer all noob questions forthwith!
> 
> ...


I clearly said "the above may not apply to this individual, but it could very well apply to others."  I say this because there has been a lot of people doing exactly that, commenting negatively without any consideration.  And you don't know who owns one or who doesn't, just that we are not all equal.  I know of a moderator who doesn't even have internet on another scorpion forum.  Some can't even afford to buy or patch up their broken computers.  If you want to talk books, not everyone has access to a library!  
And you completely don't understand my post if you're bringing it back to owning a pet and responsibility.  My post is to address those who are sitting on their high horses.  Of course I support a pet owner knowing what they're getting into and taking responsibility for their pets.  However, if they make a mistake, it's obvious to see that they need MORE help.  They need direction, advise, support, and dare I say it, HELP.  
It doesn't matter if the websites are new or if the hobby is new, there's something called computer illiteracy.  Not everyone is as competent as you are in navigating through the internet or using a computer.  

And for the record, I do answer any noob questions I see .  Do you know what they say in the end?  "Thank you."

For the OP: 
Be careful with gravid females in your community tank.  They have been reported to kill other tank mates!


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## gromgrom (May 31, 2010)

H. laoticus said:


> I clearly said "the above may not apply to this individual, but it could very well apply to others."  I say this because there has been a lot of people doing exactly that, commenting negatively without any consideration.  And you don't know who owns one or who doesn't, just that we are not all equal.  I know of a moderator who doesn't even have internet on another scorpion forum.  Some can't even afford to buy or patch up their broken computers.  If you want to talk books, not everyone has access to a library!
> And you completely don't understand my post if you're bringing it back to owning a pet and responsibility.  My post is to address those who are sitting on their high horses.  Of course I support a pet owner knowing what they're getting into and taking responsibility for their pets.  However, if they make a mistake, it's obvious to see that they need MORE help.  They need direction, advise, support, and dare I say it, HELP.
> It doesn't matter if the websites are new or if the hobby is new, there's something called computer illiteracy.  Not everyone is as competent as you are in navigating through the internet or using a computer.
> 
> ...



but we shouldnt reward or condone stupidity and not researching the animal before hand, with or without a computer or library. people, in every animal field, need to stop impulse buying animals. 

have you seen craigslist? half the dogs and cats being given away or sold are purebreds or mixes that people paid 100$+ for, and now "cant take care of". that is the problem, if youre buying an animal that lives that long, make sure you know you can care for it. 

this doesnt apply to the OP, but really, i bought an emperor when i was ten, but i studied insects and snakes in my backyard, and through the internet and library.


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## H. laoticus (May 31, 2010)

gromgrom said:


> but we shouldnt reward or condone stupidity and not researching the animal before hand, with or without a computer or library. people, in every animal field, need to stop impulse buying animals.
> 
> have you seen craigslist? half the dogs and cats being given away or sold are purebreds or mixes that people paid 100$+ for, and now "cant take care of". that is the problem, if youre buying an animal that lives that long, make sure you know you can care for it.
> 
> this doesnt apply to the OP, but really, i bought an emperor when i was ten, but i studied insects and snakes in my backyard, and through the internet and library.


I am not rewarding nor condoning "stupidity."  
You say they need to stop impulse buying, but guess what? They still are.  What do you do now?  Turn your back or just whine about it?  If they come by with a "stupid" question, it's in the animals' best interest that you tell that pet owner what to do.  To disregard them and label them as stupid just means you've done nothing to help and that animal will continue to suffer.


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## habnoji (May 31, 2010)

Accually I did do my home work on my scorpion only thing was I never put effort in the breeding section because I had no wish to breed.I have learned one thing about scorpions expect the unexpected. I came to the boards for help because the book I have explaines how to care for and set up for breeding but omits what to do after the scorps arrive.THat must be in book two.Any way I did remove the chrickes as advised I put her tank in a closet so it was nice and dark i only checked on her once a day only at night and with black light. I really dont think I did any thing wrong other then The crickets and those were removed within hours.Now why she died I havent  CLUE!She was well fed 2-3 lg chrickets a week 21L tank heat humid were perfect. She was well taken care of.I also left her alone only time i went in the cage was to clean or feed.Thanks to all for there help, wish things ended different.But the good part is My birthday was friday and the wife felt bad that I was upset that my scorpion died. So she went out and bought me 6 red claw emporers I had to laugh when she told me about it she accually made the Sales guy put them in her car then said suprise I had to take them out of her car.(She hates bugs)And as always I tell her there not bugs.
After a few hours in ther tank she even let one crawl on her Now thats a big step for her.


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## gromgrom (May 31, 2010)

H. laoticus said:


> I am not rewarding nor condoning "stupidity."
> You say they need to stop impulse buying, but guess what? They still are.  What do you do now?  Turn your back or just whine about it?  If they come by with a "stupid" question, it's in the animals' best interest that you tell that pet owner what to do.  To disregard them and label them as stupid just means you've done nothing to help and that animal will continue to suffer.


and yet again condone animal impulse purchasing. thanks for confirming you're for that.


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## H. laoticus (May 31, 2010)

gromgrom said:


> and yet again condone animal impulse purchasing. thanks for confirming you're for that.


To condone is to "To overlook, forgive, or disregard"
I am not overlooking it, forgiving it, or disregarding it.
I am in fact, directly facing it and making the best of it. 
That is why I give advise and point them in the right direction.  Please tell me where I am "condoning" it.
You simply state something without backing it up.

You are the one who is in fact condoning it by doing nothing to stop, help, or prevent impulse buyers.
Take the OP for instance.  He said, "I came to the boards for help because the book I have explaines how to care for and set up for breeding but omits what to do after the scorps arrive." 
You assumed he did no research.

Either you help or you don't, but by telling them "google it, use the search function," you're just prolonging that animal's suffering (if it is indeed suffering).  10 seconds of writing up a quick response can save that animal from that mistreatment.  I keep hearing that certain members that they care for the animals, but yet they continue to let the pets' owners mistreat/harm them; it's simply foolishness. 

To habnoji:
why don't you take a few pics of them for us.  The common name red claw emps doesn't help much.  Maybe you got some Pandinus cavimanus and those are said to not do well in communal setups.


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## Michiel (Jun 2, 2010)

H. laoticus said:


> I clearly said "the above may not apply to this individual, but it could very well apply to others."  I say this because there has been a lot of people doing exactly that, commenting negatively without any consideration.  And you don't know who owns one or who doesn't, just that we are not all equal.  I know of a moderator who doesn't even have internet on another scorpion forum.  Some can't even afford to buy or patch up their broken computers.  If you want to talk books, not everyone has access to a library!
> And you completely don't understand my post if you're bringing it back to owning a pet and responsibility.  My post is to address those who are sitting on their high horses.  Of course I support a pet owner knowing what they're getting into and taking responsibility for their pets.  However, if they make a mistake, it's obvious to see that they need MORE help.  They need direction, advise, support, and dare I say it, HELP.
> It doesn't matter if the websites are new or if the hobby is new, there's something called computer illiteracy.  Not everyone is as competent as you are in navigating through the internet or using a computer.
> 
> ...


Hi H.laoticus,

Thanks for explaining your point of view. I understand you better now, but I still do not agree with some things, but that is not always necessary. We can have different opinions without problems. The first poster claims to have his homework and validates his actions by saying that. So that means for me that continuing this thread is like beating a dead horse. I admire in you that you still want to help these people and I am glad you do. Personally, I give up more easily and decided to refrain to react on these posts in the future.
Other people are better at it then I am, and I am not very patient anyway.


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## H. laoticus (Jun 2, 2010)

Michiel said:


> Hi H.laoticus,
> 
> Thanks for explaining your point of view. I understand you better now, but I still do not agree with some things, but that is not always necessary. We can have different opinions without problems. The first poster claims to have his homework and validates his actions by saying that. So that means for me that continuing this thread is like beating a dead horse. I admire in you that you still want to help these people and I am glad you do. Personally, I give up more easily and decided to refrain to react on these posts in the future.
> Other people are better at it then I am, and I am not very patient anyway.


Hi Michiel,

We can definitely agree to disagree and I appreciate you replying with class.  I can understand where you're coming from as well and respect your opinion.  Yes, it takes a bit of patience, but I do what I can as I still have much to learn myself.  I think this went well  

Good luck to the OP


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## barabootom (Jun 2, 2010)

I've had scorps eat their young before and I didn't have any crickets in the enclosure.  The crickets may not have been the reason.  How big was the enclosure?  Were the crickets all hiding under a rock in the corner or were they jumping all over?  Were the crickets small or adults?  Was the enclosure in bright light?  How dry was it?  What were the temps?  Had the babies already reached 2nd instar?  

If someone asks for help you should help and not turn the thread into a debate on googling.


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## Michiel (Jun 5, 2010)

barabootom said:


> I've had scorps eat their young before and I didn't have any crickets in the enclosure.  The crickets may not have been the reason.  How big was the enclosure?  Were the crickets all hiding under a rock in the corner or were they jumping all over?  Were the crickets small or adults?  Was the enclosure in bright light?  How dry was it?  What were the temps?  Had the babies already reached 2nd instar?
> 
> If someone asks for help you should help and not turn the thread into a debate on googling.


Me too, I have had mothers of B.gigas eating whole broods without any prey item in the enclosure. External stimuli (like taking pictures, peaking, loud music, wrong captive conditions etc etc) Nevertheless, it is well known that prey items running around in an enclosure, especially in the numbers mentioned in this example, are a stressfactor for scorpions, and especially for scorpions that just gave birth. Don't underestimate this. 
E.c. The crickets where most probably one of the biggest reasons she ate her brood.


About your last remark, I do not completely agree. Personally I like to learn people things by letting them think themselves. Answering a question does make the person who asked it, learn anything, so learning how they can find an answer and how to asses it, is much more valuable than depositary transmission of knowledge


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## Kathy (Jun 5, 2010)

Wow, it's no wonder so many people are afraid to ask questions on here.  

To the OP, I'm sorry you lost the scorpion and her babies, I'm sure you were excited when the had the babies and it was sad to lose them.  I hope you have better luck next time.


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## Versi*JP*Color (Jun 5, 2010)

Michiel said:


> Come on Paul,
> 
> I think that one should know what they are keeping and how they should keep it. Doing your homework, which means nosing around for 15 minutes here one this board, you would have had enough info, is given the species (which is very common in the hobby, so there is a lot of info), not a very difficult or time costing effort.
> Throwing in 8 crickets for one scorpion is not necessary anyway, especially when they are gravid. By the way, I ended my post with some well meant advice, so I was not only being a smarty pants, but I also helped him out a little.
> ...



Who says he knew nothing about the scorp,who says he was ready for the thing to be pregnant.When doing your 'homework' its how to take care of it not get ready for pregnancy.


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## gromgrom (Jun 5, 2010)

SpyderBoy606 said:


> Who says he knew nothing about the scorp,who says he was ready for the thing to be pregnant.When doing your 'homework' its how to take care of it not get ready for pregnancy.


edit: this is not directed at spyderboy

this discussion is meaningless. its obvious people will never do their homework for basic care requirements,  hilariously enough, for the specie with the most information available in books and the internet! and in all actuality, it took me three seconds in google to get the answer to his question. 

and by the way, it's not a matter of the community being mean to newcomers, it is newcomers who somehow arent able to bring up google, except to get here and ask an already answered question. GUESS WHAT. I did that for HOURS AND HOURS before i got my emperors and got into the hobby. and if i couldnt find an answer, or was confused due to conflicting sources, only then did i ask, as i found *everything* else in google or through a quick search on here. 

it literally takes less time to look it up in google than it does to create an account just to ask one question. heck, i dont mind answering sometimes, but thats the reason i left SF, was because of just a ton of newcomers who just had emperors asking the same questions over and over.

i wanted to find new information, more information, and get into buthids and other species outside of the norm. I like this site because i see new scorpions every few months that i've never seen pics of or heard of before. 

not the same emperors over and over. heck, i sold mine! if that shows how i felt about them. i love my jacksoni, my arizonensis, my gracilis.


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## AzJohn (Jun 5, 2010)

Hi folks, 
Personnaly I didn't see anything wrong with Michiel's first post. To me, it was informative and factual. It offered real addvice and explained why somthing happened. Over stimulating mother scorpions is a beginers mistake, one that I've made. Do your homework is good addvice. Maybe I just have thicker skin than a lot of people. I've been very upset with a lot of post that offer nothing to the OP but insult. We have had some of those fairly recently. I didn't think that post was insulting at all. It might have "politically incorrect", I guess.  

Anyways, you folks do realize that Michiel knows more about keeping and breeding scorpions, especially South American species like tityus, than anyone else posting on this thread. If he wants to be critical of me on every one of my post, I'm okay with it. If it's the cost of his expertise. Personally I'd rather get my feeling hurt and get things right then 10 pages of empathy that doesn't really help me out.


John


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