# Spider ID, Kelowna, BC



## Hayden_Kel (Aug 5, 2010)

Hi there, 

got a few interesting critters in my back yard again and was wondering if someone could help ID them.  Our 2 little girls play in the yard daily and though I know we do have black widows present (they are generally very reclusive), I am wondering about these spiders and any concerns about possible bites.  The one on the red background (umbrella) and the side of the hot tub appear to be the same species.  The other one hanging out in the rock wall is relatively large with a leg spread of 3 inches or so.  It also moved very swiftly as it scurried over our patio.


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## mitchnast (Aug 5, 2010)

The larger one is Araneus gemmoides, Common and harmless, also known as the "cat faced" spider.

The other is impossable to tell from the pic, Id have guessed it was just a Tegenarias molting, but you said it moved, so I dont know.

I live in penticton, And I have a little girl too, she loves bug hunting, We make sure she is spider saavy.   The risk isn't that great and kids are easy to instruct if the topic is dramatic enough.   You've really nothing to fret over.

If you want to take the girls to a fun little event and learn more about spiders from the experts, maybe youed be interested in a little get-together on the 14th in westbank.   admission is by food donation.

http://www.albertareptilesociety.org/forum/showthread.php?t=8450

(id have linked locally, but its posted in the canada subforum and its a member area)


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## mitchnast (Aug 5, 2010)

BTW, you'll want to have your girls avoid handling all spiders,  All spiders have venom, nearly all are capable of biting.  While the venom may not be  a threat,  
Infection is.  Tegenaria bites are pretty bad for little girls, or anyone with alot of subcutaneous fat.  They become vunerable to aggressive staph infections easily and require antibiotics.


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## Widowman10 (Aug 5, 2010)

the one that is not the orb weaver does not appear to be a spider, but rather the molt of one  and there's really no need to worry for your girls. the only spider that might even come close to y'all up in BC that is of concern is the widow.


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## Hayden_Kel (Aug 5, 2010)

That's great info guys, appreciate the posts.  Don't mean to promote arachnophobia but just thinking of having to deal with potential spider bites.  The one in the rocks may have begun to molt but it rather quickly moved into rocks as I shot a few pics.  It is the second one I have seen in my yard in as many weeks.  I am going to try to get some good detail shots as soon as I can find another example.


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## Widowman10 (Aug 5, 2010)

Hayden_Kel said:


> but just thinking of having to deal with potential spider bites


that's fine, but you also have to remember that 99% of the spiders you will ever see are completely incapable of doing harm. if the fangs were even to penetrate the skin, you would be left with something less than a normal bee sting. only a few species will hurt a little more, and by a little more that still means absolutely nothing to worry about. again, the above is minus a widow. the widow WILL hurt, that is for sure. not kill, but hurt bad.

edit: actually, i was just surfing the web and came across the calpoison site, and read this. don't know if it is exact or whatnot, but it kinda illustrates what i was trying to say! here 'tis:



> Of over 20,000 species of spiders in the United States, only about 50 species have fangs that can penetrate human skin and only 2 species are commonly implicated in human illness:  the black widow (genus Latrodectus) and the brown recluse (genus Loxosceles)


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## cacoseraph (Aug 5, 2010)

Widowman10 said:


> edit: actually, i was just surfing the web and came across the calpoison site, and read this. don't know if it is exact or whatnot, but it kinda illustrates what i was trying to say! here 'tis:


i hate that fang quote.  intradermal injection is more than sufficient for many many types of venom. it is the quantity and quality of the venom that protects us from most spider bites


consider, even the tiniest ant (with a stinger...) can sting... and their are bugs that feed on the fluids inside of cells


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## Widowman10 (Aug 5, 2010)

either way, i was trying to get across the point of not having to worry about them.  intradermal envenomations are sufficient though, you are right.


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## ArachnoYak (Aug 6, 2010)

WIth all due respect Mitchnast, the jury is still out on tegenaria venom.  Many well known "spider-bites", that have been attributed to tegenaria agrestis were lacking specimens for conclusive ID.  In addition ,many doctors, although well versed in human anatomy and physiology,  are quite ignorant where arachnids are concerned,  and will misdiagnose various insect bites as "spider bites".  People themselves will further the notoriety by assigning arachnid blame to any small blemish they happen to find on themselves.  
  I wouldn't worry about either of the spiders you photographed Hayden Kel.  Although it wouldn't hurt to teach your kids to recognize and avoid black widows.  We're pretty lucky in Canada to have handleable invertebrates.


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## jsloan (Aug 6, 2010)

mitchnast said:


> All spiders have venom


FWIW, spiders in the family Uloboridae do not have venom glands (_*Spiders of North America: an identification manual*_, 2005, page 250).


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## mitchnast (Aug 6, 2010)

ArachnoYak said:


> WIth all due respect Mitchnast, the jury is still out on tegenaria venom.


well, Going by the effect that it is anecdotally understood to have on humans, and reasonably shown to consistantly have on labratory rabbits.  I still suggest caution.  Absence of evidance does not equal evidance of absence, especially when children are concerned.   Not to perpetuate misinformation of course,  but I think its probably quite reasonable to suspect these spiders do, in fact have medically significant bites.  Not absolute conviction, but reasonable suspicion.  Poison ivy doesnt effect everyone either, It also doesn't stay consistant with specific individuals,  But I think we can all see the benefit of always avoiding skin contact with it. (I know allergy and envenomations are entirely different things, It's the thought that counts.) 

generally, I'd worry more about wasps than spiders.  I know they sting for certain.  They also fly, become angry, hound you, and attack.

I didn't mean to make a mother needlessly fretful.


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