# What small mammal as child's first pet?



## ametan (Jun 1, 2010)

My son will be five years old in September and I think he's ready to graduate from goldfish and move onto a more "real" pet. Now what to get? 

I want it to be a mammal. Small. I want it to require some maintenance but nothing horribly smelling and time-consuming. I'd also like a good temperament. Anyone have any suggestions for me?


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## joshuai (Jun 1, 2010)

guiney pigs are great =


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## 8by8 (Jun 1, 2010)

A small rodent would be good. Hampsters and rats would be ideal, but not mice, there too skittish IMO. Also a plus for rats, you can litter box train them and teach them everything if not more than you can a dog.


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## RoachGirlRen (Jun 1, 2010)

In my experience, the opposite is true when it comes to mice vs. hamsters; I've had one or two nippy/unfriendly mice out of scores of mice I've owned since childhood. I've had one or two NON-nippy/unfriendly hamsters out of tens of hamsters I've owned since childhood. 

If you do get a hamster get a syrian from a breeder that has handled it from a young age, and keep it in a large, well enriched enclosure; the smaller the enclosure the more territorial and nasty the hamster, and the more bored the hamster, the more neurotic and likely to bite.

Gerbils are a possible option, but they are often a bit jumpy. Is the expectation that the kid will get to hold them, or just pet and feed? If the latter then they'd be OK. If the kiddo is to hold them, I'd only do it close to the ground with supervision, as a leap could harm or kill them.

In my honest opinion though? Despite social conditioning to the contrary, I think pocket pets are an awful choice for the majority of children. Many get abandoned quickly because the child loses interest or is afraid to hold them after a bit, and most wind up neglected and improperly cared for in too-small enclosures (hint: there is no such thing as a commerically available hamster cage that is appropriate for hamsters in the average pet store). They are very fragile, readily nip when roughly handled, and are frightened by the noise and rapid movements of children; they're really an adult's pet.

 Unless you have a very exceptionally gentle, quite, mannerly kiddo, I'd suggest getting a larger, less nippy pet that maybe the kid gets to pet and feed but not pick up and hold until he's a bit older like a guinea pig or rabbit. However, both are social species that need large enclosures, and both can have pretty long lifespans. So I'm not sure how you'd feel about that. Rats are a good compromise as they're very gentle and affectionate but still short lived, but you'll need at least two since they are extremely social. And keep those nails trimmed unless you want a scratched up kiddo!

If you do decide on a species let me know if you need help finding reputable care sheets. As with tarantulas, most pet stores that sell them don't know what the heck they're talking about and will sell you a bunch of unsafe and unecessarry products.


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## galeogirl (Jun 1, 2010)

I'm considering this question myself.  My daughter is 7.5, but she wants a cuddly pet that is decidedly hers and we're leaning toward adopting a pair of guinea pigs or a dwarf rabbit.


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## xhexdx (Jun 1, 2010)

Rats all the way.  Hands-down the best rodent, in my opinion.  Get it small, handle it often.


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## Chaika (Jun 1, 2010)

I would really advise against hamsters. They are very nocturnal which means that they will be active all night while your child is in bed sleeping and will be sleeping when they want to play with them. So in order to play with it your child will have to wake the hamster in the middle of its sleep cycle in the afternoon. This is obviously stressful for the animal and in my personal experience actually shortens their life. I took great care of both my hamsters but the first (which I played with lots) only lived for 1.5 years whereas the second (which I did not have much time to play with as I was too busy studying) actually lived for 3 years, and that's a really big difference. 

What I would recommend is show mice. They are much more flexible in their activity schedule and will be active for at least part of the day.  Show mice are also slightly larger than normal mice, which is better for the child and mouse, and they come in a huge range of beautiful colours.

Having had both hamsters and mice I can say that although my hamsters were very cute and good tempered I much preferred the mice because they were out and about much more and seemed much more interested exploring and in me, whereas the hamsters were only interested in going back to sleep 

I have no experience with rats but had a few friends that had them and their feedback was that they make fantastic (if short lived) pets although they do need more space than other small rodents.


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## OldHag (Jun 1, 2010)

I vote Rat!
Guinea pigs are, in my opinion, high maintanence. We have two rats and two guinea pigs. The rats are MUCH less stinkie and a lot less jumpy and nervous. Infact the rats arent jumpy at all. They just have great personalities and a whole lot easier to care for. Guinea pigs require SO much time and effort. Just something to think about.


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## H. laoticus (Jun 1, 2010)

I think hamsters are great.  
I have one in a Krittertrail 2 and it does perfectly fine.
It comes out every time I'm near the cage and is so fun to hand feed.
For mine, I can leave it alone if I want since it has all it needs in the cage, water and food.  Just clean out/wash the cage once or twice a month is fine.  They're pretty cheap in terms of care and don't take up much time at all.


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## Rex Libris (Jun 1, 2010)

xhexdx said:


> Rats all the way.  Hands-down the best rodent, in my opinion.  Get it small, handle it often.


+1 Rats rock.

But actually, little cage pets are not great for small children. Get him a kitten.


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## JC (Jun 1, 2010)

*Rats* and* Russian Dwarf Hamsters*.

I had two rats I raised myself from pups. They were *very* intelligent and aware of their surrondings. I'd let them out of their cage sometimes, and the first few tries they wouldn't go beyond two feet away from my feet and would run back and up my legs when startled. But it is recommended you get more than just one because they need a lot of interaction. They were very fun. I think of them as miniature dogs.

I also had some dwarf hamsters that used to play tug-o-war with my fingers. After training them, they would run up to my finger once they learned how to play when they were in the mood. They were hilarious. They were the least smelly of all the mammals I've kept.


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## pouchedrat (Jun 1, 2010)

Rats, a same-sex pair would be great.  They're very forgiving of mishandling, and are larger and less delicate than other small pocket pets.  That, and you can train them to do tricks, come when called, and litter box train them.  Also, out of probably 200 or so rats I've had in my lifetime, only about 3 or 4 were biters.  And out of those, only ONE didn't overcome being a biter.  One took MONTHS of socialization and a neuter before he overcame it and became a sweetheart, but I firmly believe that was the result of poor breeding, as it was mostly hormonal.

And as photos, I JUST picked these three rats up last week!  I've been a rat owner for 16 years now, and honestly I didn't start with rats until much later in high school (my father HATES rodents, and pretty much all animals except fish) just before my parents seperated.  They were everything to me, helped me go through serious bouts of depression, changes in life, etc.  Definitely little sweethearts. 






















My first pet was a parakeet in first grade, and the thing lived until I was in college.  Not the friendliest bird at all and I'd never recommend something like that for a young kid.  My son now helps take care of our prairie dogs, the rats, and a female natal rat that lives in his room (whom he's VERY protective of).  He's 4 1/2 and if he can feed pets, help with veggies and refill water bottles despite his disabilities, then i think most kids can be taught proper care.  Just remember parents are still the primary caregiver, especially when it comes to vets and for me, cleaning cages.

also I very much do NOT recommend rabbits as a pet for a young kid.  We have two 6 year old rabbits, one from a rescue situation that was poorly cared for, who was originally a pet for a small 4 year old boy.  The rabbit would lunge and growl, and try biting anyone who went near her.  She's still leary of being held but she lives with a neutered boy and they get along well now.. but honestly rabbits live 10++++ years, are VERY messy, destructive, and need spaying/neutering to prevent marking territory and cancer.  Plus the vet bills if something does go wrong can be bad due to improper diet or whatnot.  I admit rat vet bills can be an issue as well, but not too horrible.  Usually it's for myco or tumors, but going with a good breeder and not a pet store helps prevent issues like that.


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## BQC123 (Jun 1, 2010)

galeogirl said:


> I'm considering this question myself.  My daughter is 7.5, but she wants a cuddly pet that is decidedly hers and we're leaning toward adopting a pair of guinea pigs or a dwarf rabbit.


We went the dwarf rabbit route. Just be sure to get a decent sized cage. Pet stores really undersize the cage for a rabbit. 
Our rabbit can be left to run around the house, when we are home, and goes into the cage to use his litter pan.  Also have an outdoor pen for when we are outside.
Just need to change the litter twice a day ( I just use shredded paper ) be sure there is always fresh water, and keep up on the feeding.


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## rexi_doll (Jun 1, 2010)

8by8 said:


> A small rodent would be good. Hampsters and rats would be ideal, but not mice, there too skittish IMO. Also a plus for rats, you can litter box train them and teach them everything if not more than you can a dog.


I HATE HATE to disagree with someone's opinion, but I don't fully agree.  You have to be careful as to which kind of hamster you choose (I heard robo hamsters and teddy bear hamsters are BEST)  BUT even the teddy bears tend to be nippy as babies(which is how they are sold in pet stores.  Also, keep in mind that they are nocturnal.

I got a teddy bear hamster for my niece, and she loves it, but she never gets to see it or play with it, due to the fact that it wakes up an hour after her bed time.  It is also very nippy and we have to wear gloves to get it out.

Guinea Pigs I hear are a much better choice, and from what I remember from my guinea pig when I was young, they are very awesome.

Good luck in whatever you choose to get


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## ametan (Jun 1, 2010)

Just to clarify, I'm fully expecting to do most, if not all, of the work required in taking care of this pet while my son "helps" me. This way he can get his feet wet so-to-speak. We have two dogs and three cats already (besides all of my Ts), but I'd like something he can feel is "his" and take some pride in taking care of.

Also, I'd never get a young child a kitten. At least with caged creatures you can be sure he's only petting it with parental supervision.

Sounds like rats are the winner in a big way. Can anyone tell me what I need to properly care for one? Or point me in the direction of good information?


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## Shell (Jun 1, 2010)

Another vote for rats  

I have 2 females, and they are so sweet and friendly and hilarious to watch. They smell a lot less then other rodents I have kept , and it's great to see their personalities.


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## xhexdx (Jun 1, 2010)

Use aspen bedding, not cedar or pine.

As already stated, a same-sex pair is preferred.  Females stink less than males.

Don't use a cage with a shallow bottom; they will push the bedding up and out of the cage.  A ten-gallon would work too, but they'll dirty the sides pretty quickly.

You can feed them almost anything, but the generic rodent food at the LPS would do fine.  Supplmement with fresh veggies.  Make sure they have water (from a bottle, not a dish).

The pics above are all of dumbo rats.  Their ears are placed a little further down on their heads and are rounded.  They're (in my opinion) *very* cute!  Color and physical appearance (dumbo, rex, etc.) don't play a part in their personalities.

Also, when selecting, either buy 'pet-quality' rats from someone who breeds them specifically as pets, or if you buy feeders, put your hand in the tank and see which rats are curious (and friendly) enough to come to you.  Don't pick a rat solely based on color/pattern, as tempting as it is.

Hope this helps.

Also, keep in mind they'll only live 2-3 years, on average.  They're also very prone to tumors.

--Joe


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## Scoolman (Jun 1, 2010)

xhexdx said:


> Rats all the way.  Hands-down the best rodent, in my opinion.  Get it small, handle it often.


I agree 100%. Rats make awesome pets. Get a young one and it will become your child's best bud. I have had several over the years, my favorite are the hairlees rats, and giant rats.


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## Rex Libris (Jun 1, 2010)

ametan said:


> Also, I'd never get a young child a kitten. At least with caged creatures you can be sure he's only petting it with parental supervision.


Ah. Most parents give the kid a cage pet, keep it in the child's room, and let the child handle it whenever he wants, _without_ supervision. It is more at risk than a kitten -- a kitten can scream loudly, and run away, is less fragile to begin with, and interacts with the entire family, thus gaining the attention of an adult when there is a problem. I've seen a lot of little creatures crushed and killed or injured by small children, or left without water, but kittens growing up in families with very little kids have done fine.

I think a ten gallon is too small for rats. They're active and clever and need play space. I'd get two males. They're smellier, but they grow bigger and are generally more cuddly and slower moving. Take your kid to handle some rats before buying them -- some people are allergic to them. Myself included, which is a pity because they're really wonderful.


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## pouchedrat (Jun 1, 2010)

Yeah, colors and ear placements, etc, really mean nothing as far as how the rat's personality is going to be.  An example of that:







This is Skunk.  He came to me because the previous owner couldn't handle him anymore and wanted him to go to an experienced home.  He originally came from a rescue, and before that, another home.  The "rescue" he came from, we later learned, decided to BREED these rats because of their unique looks.  Skunk was cage aggressive (meaning he was territorial of his cage and would BITE HARD if you went near it), rat aggressive (he attacked other rats), and human aggressive (...bit people).  He attacked and severely injured his brother who he had lived with since birth, which is why the owner decided to find a new home for him.  When I recieved him, the first thing I did was take him to my vet for a neuter.  His aggression was definitely hormonal, and neutering helps that.  It usually takes a month or two before the testosterone leaves the body, but with this boy it took much longer before he stopped attacking.  During introduction with my other rats a couple months after his neuter, I gave everyone a bath, dabbed their noses with vanilla extract, and put them all together in neutral territory on the couch.  what does Skunk do?  He immediately lunged at one of my most docile little boys, and bit a huge hole in his side.  A vet visit, pain meds, anti-inflammatory meds later, I tried again after more time passed.  This time, he got another rat in the foot, exposing bone.  Once again, another vet visit and more time passed (both rats healed up fine, by the way.  Seriously shows how incredibly resiliant rats are), EVENTUALLY not only was I able to integrate Skunk into a cage of other rat boys AND was able to handle him, pet him, and even get some licky kisses from him, but he wasn't even ALPHA rat in the pack!!!   However, not even a year later, Skunk developed hind leg paralysis and muscle degeneration, which once again is hereditary.  He basically wasted away to nothing but skin and bones, and dragged his back feet at the end of his life. 

I want to say RIGHT NOW that this is NOT the norm for rats AT ALL!!!!  This is a case of poor breeding, what happens when people breed rats for looks and color, as opposed to personality, health, and temperament.  There are some absolutely awesome rat breeders out there who regularly attend rat shows, win ribbons, even compete in rat agility courses and tricks.  There are also rat breeders who are akin to backyard breeders or puppy mills, who are only in it for personal gain, or just to have "cute babies".  

As far as care goes, rats only live 2-3 years.  3 is lucky, most of mine live an average of 2 - 2 1/2, with my oldest being 3 1/2.   They do best in same-sex pairs or groups, and best in a wire cage with 1/2" bars (powder coated is best, galvanized will rust eventually).  Some decent cages are at www.martinscages.com but some of us use ferret nations for larger rats, or critter nation cages.  They're more expensive, but they're very pretty and fun to decorate!  Especially if you sew your own hammocks (lazy boys in hammocks is always fun).

Food:  Harlan Teklad really is a great food source for rats, although it's hard to get sometimes.  I always use a high quality, low protein dog food mixed with dry pasta, oats, kashi or total cereal, flax seeds, etc.  They also benefit from veggies, fruits, chicken bones (yes, they can eat chicken bones fine without splintering), and honestly anything leftover you can toss in the cage with the exception to only a couple things.   I would also give any rats with mild respiratory problems a chocolate chip, and that actually helps with their lungs a bit. 

They are prone to tumors, especially mammary tumors in females.  Breeders screen for this, and there are breeder databases online with entire rat lineages posted, which rats are related to whom, and if any genetic defaults existed.  

there are a few places to go online.  Just do some searching and you'll find some great forums.  I should also note I'm a rat snob, a rat freak, so I'm the kind of person who treats mine like royalty and will go to extremes for my ratties, lol...   

If you don't go with a breeder, or a rescue (yeah there are rat rescues out there and they can tell you the personality of the rats) then stick your hand in a tank at a pet store, etc.  Whoever comes up to you, nibbles your fingers, licks you, and wont' leave you alone?  That rat is choosing you.  Baby rats use their teeth for everything, so if they nibble, it's normal.  if it was a bite you'd know.  If they get too tough, squeek at them and they will let up immediately! Baby rats, like puppies, are testing their teeth and their surroundings. The biggest issue is Mycoplasma and tumors with pet store rats... they tend to get it moreso than one from a breeder.  That, and I've gotten SDA twice from rats at pet stores, without even purchasing a rat from them.  It was carried home on my clothes, and almost whiped out my ratties. 

and let me say that some of the BEST pet rats I've ever had were pet store feeder rats! 
Here was Casanova... the rat who made me go back to rats after a long break:






AND more recently, now that I have four ratties, This is the new girl who once again broke me in and forced me to get into rats again.  I stuck my hand in a feeder bin at repticon, and this girl came up to me, licked my fingers, and began climbing up my arm and would NOT leave me alone.  Thus, months-long rat break was broken, again!


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## Scoolman (Jun 1, 2010)

Rex Libris said:


> Ah. Most parents give the kid a cage pet, keep it in the child's room, and let the child handle it whenever he wants, _without_ supervision. It is more at risk than a kitten -- a kitten can scream loudly, and run away, is less fragile to begin with, and interacts with the entire family, thus gaining the attention of an adult when there is a problem. I've seen a lot of little creatures crushed and killed or injured by small children, or left without water, but kittens growing up in families with very little kids have done fine.
> 
> I think a ten gallon is too small for rats. They're active and clever and need play space. I'd get two males. They're smellier, but they grow bigger and are generally more cuddly and slower moving. Take your kid to handle some rats before buying them -- some people are allergic to them. Myself included, which is a pity because they're really wonderful.


Rodents should be kept in bared cages, not aquariums. They need the fresh air and ventilation. Aquariums trap the odors and fumes and will slowly poison your pet. I would get a female to avoid the aggression of a mature male.


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## Rex Libris (Jun 1, 2010)

Scoolman said:


> Rodents should be kept in bared cages, not aquariums. They need the fresh air and ventilation. Aquariums trap the odors and fumes and will slowly poison your pet. I would get a female to avoid the aggression of a mature male.



I agree about the tank. I used wire cages for all my rodents. But people do like the neatness of glass cages and if they're kept properly clean with a screen lid they're probably not as bad as all that.

But I disagree about the aggression. My experience is that the males were mellower in every way. (I had a lot of them as a kid, developed the allergy to them much later.)


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## xhexdx (Jun 1, 2010)

pouchedrat said:


> This is Skunk.  He came to me because the previous owner couldn't handle him anymore and wanted him to go to an experienced home.  He originally came from a rescue, and before that, another home.  The "rescue" he came from, we later learned, decided to *BREED these rats because of their unique looks.*


High-whites (like Skunk) are difficult to produce, and to add dumbo on top of that, I can understand why they would breed him, despite his personality.  They also are the step leading to producing black-eyed-whites.

I'm not saying it's ok, just pointing out why.


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## pitbulllady (Jun 1, 2010)

xhexdx said:


> Rats all the way.  Hands-down the best rodent, in my opinion.  Get it small, handle it often.


I second that!  Rats or Guinea Pigs are far less likely to bite, and rats are definitely quieter.  Rats seem to be much more intelligent and have more personality, too.  I'd advise against most hamsters, although some species of the dwarf hamsters seem far less "bitey", the regular Syrian hamsters and their various coat and color morphs DO tend to bite.  I've always been very partial to rats and used to breed several colors and coat types(yes, you can get many coats in rats, if you don't like the regular rat coat)before my allergies got so bad I had to give them up.  They are playful and love to interact with people as long as you get a young one and they are no messier than other rodents.  They are also quite sturdy for their size and are better able to deal with clumsy young hands holding them than many of the more delicate or nervous rodents.

pitbulllady


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## Kathy (Jun 1, 2010)

My first pet was a rat and I loved that guy!  His name was Toby. LOL.  He was so smart.  Every day when I got home from school he would jump out of his fish tank (I never kept a lid on it) so he had lots of air ventilation...and he would run towards me like a dog.  Aww, I just loved him.  I would recommend a boy even though they have big yahoos.  Rats are awesome!!


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## pouchedrat (Jun 1, 2010)

Yeah I've had my fair share of high whites, since they're one of my faves I tend to seek them out (my others being agouti and PEW, as you saw my three new ones are all three of those, lol).  Unfortunately high whites also can suffer from megacolon, which i've experienced once in a newly-weaned rat, and I've known people who've lost entire litters of high whites to megacolon.  You don't even know they carry it until they're off of mother's milk... and it's awful to see.  

blues sometimes have hemophelia, which means if they EVER go in for surgery, or cut themselves, they can bleed to death from it.  This is of course hereditary and becoming more common lately.  

I've also had rats with protein sensitivities who broke out in scabs all over their face and neck areas due to too much protein for them in their diets. it was the standard 14%, but they were just extra sensitive to it, and of course related.  

I think just having as many different rats from as many parts of the USA (and lineage from overseas, I've had downunder that originally came from Australia and roan that came over from the UK) as I have, I've seen it all.  At least enough to know I would never breed rats, as I just simply don't know enough about genetics or disorders linked to various coats and patterns as I should.  

And on a side note about Skunk.. his brother wound up the same way as he did.  genetics are a bitch.  

But then again, I'm a snob with rats like I said, lol...  everyone has something they obsess over, I guess.  For some it's snakes, others tarantulas, some people love dogs or cats. For me, it's all about the rat. 

Despite all that, I still think they're the best pet for a yound kid, as they're the most forgiving.


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## Kathy (Jun 1, 2010)

My pet rat use to love eating crickets.  I found that out by accident, the snake cage was above him (just a small green snake, nothing that could eat him....) and one time a cricket fell in his enclosure.  He was on it in a heartbeat, yum yum chomp chomp.


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## Laceface (Jun 1, 2010)

Love the rat idea. I grew up with them- incredibly smart and friendly. 
Ours lived in a ferret "condo" wrapped with chicken wire to prevent escape. Not pretty, but the rats LOVED it. They had lots of levels with ropes, hides, etc. They loved fresh fruits, veggies, and mealworms! I have had hamsters, mice, rats, rabbits, gerbils, birds, etc...rats are the best for a kid, hands down, in my opinion. The only reason I have mice instead of rats now, is because I developed an allergy to them. If they are even in my house, my lungs fill with goo. If they touch me, I turn red and itchy. No fun at all! 

Good luck with finding a pet for your kid, I bet he will love what ever ends up as "his" animal!


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## clam1991 (Jun 1, 2010)

I loved my rats way more than anyother mammal i ever owned but sadly after breeding my female and male i was foolish to think aww the girl one is sniffing my finger so cute!!!
(i bred them as feeders, got them originally as feeders)
until she bit clear through my nail

but again i feel very foolish looking back on it but im sure if they were pets they would be a great choice.
my little brother absoulutly adored the (honky chonky) male rats as they were very friendly


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## H. laoticus (Jun 2, 2010)

If anything, just don't go with rabbits.  They just eat a heck of a lot and poop a lot.


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## RoachGirlRen (Jun 2, 2010)

If you do go with rats, let me please underscore: get ones that are very well socialized. They are WONDERFUL animals but fearful, traumatized, or untame rats can deliver some severely nasty bites - and most rats sold in typical pet stores are undersocialized and coming from less-than-ideal conditions. I've had a few rats come through my doors as rescues, all from poor situations, and ones that have had a background that makes them fearful of humans can be very challenging pets. Just yesterday, I accidentally spooked the female I am fostering and she bit THROUGH my fingernail, shattering it into three pieces.

I would really suggest a reputable breeder or a well acclaimed, responsible rescue that will let you select a rat (well, a pair) with a temperament that works for you. If you go that route I think you'll have a pet your child is really going to love and connect with.

You must post pics if/when you get them  Sounds like we have a lot of rat lovers on the board who would like to meet the new additions.


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## ametan (Jun 2, 2010)

After reading all of the replies, I have to ask: What are your opinions on buying baby feeder rats? Are there risks involved?

It seems to me that it would be easier to get a baby as all I see in the pet stores around here are nearly full grown and I cannot find any Wisconsin breeders searching online. Also, I have to assume that the genetic problems that occur when the rats are bred for "cuteness" would not be present.


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## RoachGirlRen (Jun 2, 2010)

Actually, feeder rats are some of the worst bred animals on the planet. They are bred for mass production, not health or longevity. As a result they often have health and behavioral issues. The way they are kept also often results in illness; they practically always have myco and some may even have sendai. URIs are common as well. Lice and mites are often rampant due to crowding and poor husbandry in the store. 

Responsible rat breeders do not select just for "cuteness" but screen the health of all breeding animals and cull out lines with genetic disorders, high incidences of tumors, food allergies, etc. 

If you have a GOOD local pet store that keeps their feeder rats clean, well fed, minimally crowded, etc. and lack a local breeder or rescue, getting a young friendly-seeming feeder rat is your best chance at a decent companion. Though, do check out CL, ebay classifieds, hoobly, etc. - there are smaller scale pet breeders who lack websites. I'd also join http://www.goosemoose.com or at least browse their classifieds; there are rats for adoption, both from breeders and rescuers, all over the US on that site.


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## xhexdx (Jun 2, 2010)

RGR is right, but that's in an ideal situation.

I've personally never had behavior issues with rats purchased from the feeder bins from pet shops.  Like I said, stick your hand in and let them come to you.  The rats who are the most curious and willing to climb up the 'alien' hand in the tank are the ones you should take home. 

From my experience, anyway.


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## fangsalot (Jun 2, 2010)

i would say rat but for some reason my dumbos always ended up being agressive towards women.it was wierd.i raised a few and they always ended up biting just the women of the family i used to give them away to.i guess because i raised them and they had almost no interaction with women,but that just means if you do go the rat route,make sure they are handled and cared for by women and men.


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## pouchedrat (Jun 3, 2010)

Feeder rats tend to have the worst problems, and like she says, oftentimes suffer from tumors, URI's, lice or mites, etc.  It's never fun to have a mammary tumor removed only for three more to pop up a month later.   And like I said, I've had SDA twice from pet stores, carried on my clothes, which almost whiped out my rats at home.  

Rescues really are a great way to go, but the rats are more than likely former pet store rats so you don't avoid the health issues down the road, just any current ones they may have had. But with the rescues, at least they know the rats' personalities and can match you up.  They also have trains so if nothing is near you, there are ways to get them to you (meaning, people will drive great distances, drop the rats off to the next leg of the trip, etc., to drive them across state to your area).   I used to help out various rescues on the East coast before my son was born, going from Maine all the way to the southern tip of North Carolina to transport for them.  The main rescues I helped aren't around anymore, unfortunately, but there are more.  

I know of a breeder in Illinois whom i've known for years.  Also, Rhineland Rat Rescue is in Wisconsin and yes, they are still doing rescue.  I just don't think they update the website at all, but they do have rats currently available and they post on goosemoose.com.


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## Ms.X (Jun 3, 2010)

I have to agree with what has been said so far:  a rat is the best pocket pet, no question about it.

You guys really need to stop reminding me how awesome they are, it's making me want another one :}


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## ZergFront (Jun 3, 2010)

Teddy Bear hampster. I had one years back named Pikachu, female. They are bigger than the dwarves obviously but they seem to have a much better temperament (not as territorial of their cage when handled regularly). Don't put them on high ground; their eye-sight is very poor and likely will slip off a table or chair if not watched.

 I've had both the dwarf and the Teddy Bear. One of the dwarf males would bite if anything (even a hand) got in his cage but was fine after you cupped him and took him out of his domain. The other male we assume had heart failure because he was dying right next to the wheel (his favorite activity).


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## Kirsten (Jun 3, 2010)

Another rat vote.  Surprise!  Females are smaller and quicker.  Usually wanting to climb and play, etc.  Males tend to be big lazy squishes that want to lay in your lap or hammocks all day.  There are, of course, exceptions.

I didn't read through _all_ the posts, so I don't know if anyone mentioned that females can be prone to mammary tumors, later in life, that may require surgery.  It's been said that keeping them in _*total*_ darkness for ~12 hr. night periods can help prevent this. I've never had a behavioral issue with the pet store rats. Mark and Jackson (my boy ratties) high five for the rats


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## Galapoheros (Jun 4, 2010)

I met the "rat lady" in Austin Tx and she convinced me ....a rat.  She even made me feel like getting one!  I can't believe I'm even thinking about it.  From what I've heard, you can't beat a rat with what's available out there.  Hey, remember that movie, "Ben"?


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## Rex Libris (Jun 4, 2010)

_Ben _(1972) was the sequel to _Willard_ (1971). There was a 2003 remake of _Willard_, starring Crispin Glover, and, of all people, R. Lee Ermey. It was great. And you do want to see Ermey get torn to bits by rats. But it's not for the faint of heart, as there is a scene of terrible violence against rats.


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## pouchedrat (Jun 4, 2010)

Heh.. when the remake to Willard was in production, they contacted a lot of us rat people for photos of rats, etc, then gave whoever participated in sending things in and such a little "rat gift pack" that included things like rat shaped erasers.  Then on the DVD they seemed to pick the 'craziest' sounding rat people for interviews, lol.  Not all of us own 70+ rats, although the most I've had at once was in the 20's (took in a mom who had 17 babies, yikes). 

I had a pouched rat when that movie was out, whom my screen name is for. The species they used for Ben in the remake was a pouched (which was shortly banned afterwards, then the ban was lifted in September 2008), although a gambian, whereas mine was an emin's pouched rat (smaller species).   AMAZING pet, easily trained and extremely intelligent, and I'd do anything to get one again. I definitely would not recommend a pouchie casually for others, unless they seriously knew what they were getting into.  Those guys can make short work of things like cabinets, floors, drywall, small guage wire cages... yeah.  Plus it's a serious exotic, NOT domestic. The bond they can form is amazing, but if you don't get that bond, you have a giant rat who can deliver a nasty bite.  My boy, however, was seriously bonded to me, and even my young son and strangers could feed him and pet him fine.  He constantly gave licky kisses and craved attention, and through and through was the greatest pet I've ever had in my entire life.


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## Cirith Ungol (Jun 4, 2010)

Since you said mammal and not rodent I will say cat. Get a cat. Boring I know. But utterly ridiculously little maintenance, can be left alone for days if need be, clean, cuddly, friendly (if socialized properly), fun to play with. Not a hard choice


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## Rex Libris (Jun 4, 2010)

Mm? She said not rodent? Rodents are mammals.


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## Cirith Ungol (Jun 4, 2010)

Rex Libris said:


> Mm? She said not rodent? Rodents are mammals.


She didn't say she wanted a rodent, she said she wanted a mammal. But everyone here suggested rodents of one sort or the other. Get it? There are a few more mammals besides rodents so I suggested a cat.


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## RoachGirlRen (Jun 4, 2010)

She didn't SPECIFY rodent. She simply said "mammal."


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## ametan (Jun 4, 2010)

Thanks, Jens, but I've already got three cats and I don't want my four year old stalking some poor kitten all over the house at night while we're asleep. (You'd be surprised at what we've woken up to.) I definitely want something caged... and a lock.  I'm of the opinion that all little kids are similar to serial killers. They just don't have the knowledge yet to tell them what shouldn't be done to animals out of curiousity. It seems to take a little while to develop the whole wrong/right good/evil sensors.


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## flamesbane (Jun 4, 2010)

Guinea pigs are a *bad* choice. They are loud (they squeak a lot!) and require rather constant cage cleaning to keep them from stinking. Rats are a good choice. Chinchillas are also really good pets.


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## Shell (Jun 4, 2010)

flamesbane said:


> Chinchillas are also really good pets.


I second this as well. I loved my Chinchilla, he was great. He was rather messy and loud at times but super friendly and pretty easy to look after.


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## Rex Libris (Jun 4, 2010)

There just aren't that many mammalian cage pets that aren't rodents but are readily available and also don't have pretty major care requirements. I think ferrets are the only one that hasn't hit the list. I think rats are the best pick.

ametan, hehee! serial killers. Yeah.

Be careful of running-wheel designs and get ones that cannot catch long ratty tails, if you get any at all. My rats didn't like them.

My last rat had a little miniature pirate's chest that he learned to open and close and would stash stuff in. I always meant to put a little hinged door on his hide-box. 

He got commercial rat pellets, but also had a tiny plate I'd use to give him a little rat-sized portion of whatever we were having, minus the less healthy parts. Two green beans and a little slice of baked potato, that sort of thing. I doted on that charming creature. He lived four years and I got him as an adult, a rescue.


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## MichiganReptiles (Jun 5, 2010)

flamesbane said:


> Guinea pigs are a *bad* choice. They are loud (they squeak a lot!) and require rather constant cage cleaning to keep them from stinking. Rats are a good choice. Chinchillas are also really good pets.


I agree. Guinea pigs are a horrible choice. I got one for my son a few years ago as a baby and she was already pregnant. They reach sexual maturity very quickly so you have no idea if you're buying a package deal. 

I vote rat! I loved my rats for all the reasons already stated.


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## ametan (Jun 6, 2010)

Christ on a cracker! I was searching around this weekend and it seems the double decker cages with ramps people seem to be recommending cost about $150! Starting to think maybe he can stick with his goldfish for a while. heh


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## Rex Libris (Jun 6, 2010)

I bought the mesh, rings and pliers and made mine. The only trouble is finding an appropriately sized bottom tray.


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## Green Mantis (Jun 7, 2010)

*Choice of tame pet*

I strongly suggest DEGU'S----Just don't pull their tail, because the skin will come off in your hands. Their way off defence.  But if you get a couple of young ones, they get very tame. They don't smell nearly as bad as the other rodents.  When we had ours they got very tame.  They roll in a dust like a chinchilla though.  To keep their coats in good shape.  Look them up and see what you think?


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## bigdog999 (Jun 7, 2010)

only comment I can make is hand sanitizer and lots of it.  teach them young to always use it after handling the little creatures.  I've had hamsters, guinea pigs, gerbils and each has their own pluses and minuses.  Now that I'm older, I have a syrian hamster which is a great little guy who adores attention when he's awake.  guinea pigs are very affectionate, but defecate a lot and needs constant cleaning.  gerbils are nice, but i don't see them around anymore.


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## Nikkeh (Jun 7, 2010)

Forget all the fluffy mammals and get a leapord gecko  there great for kids of a certain age, and quite easily handalable as long as you don't grab it's tail to hard


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## Mina (Jun 7, 2010)

This is nothing against the people who are suggesting rats, I love rats, I have two sweet ratties myself.
I suggest guinea pigs over rats for one main reason, they are bigger and easier for small hands to hold, they also tend to be calmer than rats.
I've bred both and had both for pets, and I always suggest guinea pigs for younger kids just because of size.
(BTW, the rat pictures that got posted to this thread are ADORABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!)


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## Tleilaxu (Jun 7, 2010)

ametan said:


> Christ on a cracker! I was searching around this weekend and it seems the double decker cages with ramps people seem to be recommending cost about $150! Starting to think maybe he can stick with his goldfish for a while. heh


Thats not expensive IMO... Especially for a very intelligent animals you _owe_ it to them to provide the best housing available.

BTW for the goldfish the minimum tank size depending on breed is 20 to 55 gallons, goldfish are not suitable for bowls.


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## RoachGirlRen (Jun 7, 2010)

And adding to the goldfish remark, it shouldn't really ever be 'a' goldfish. They too are intelligent social animals and tend to show stereotypical behaviors when kept singly. 

Remember, if $150 for a cage seems pricey, consider how much an adequate ammount of toys, healthy diet, bedding, and vet care will cost in the rats' lifetime. Rats are definitely not a cheap pet. My current foster rattie tears through new toys every day.


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## flamesbane (Jun 8, 2010)

RoachGirlRen said:


> And adding to the goldfish remark, it shouldn't really ever be 'a' goldfish. They too are intelligent social animals and tend to show stereotypical behaviors when kept singly.
> 
> Remember, if $150 for a cage seems pricey, consider how much an adequate ammount of toys, healthy diet, bedding, and vet care will cost in the rats' lifetime. Rats are definitely not a cheap pet. My current foster rattie tears through new toys every day.


$150 _is_ pricey for a rat cage IMO...>$100 should get an excellent cage suitable for a pair of rats.


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## Kirsten (Jun 10, 2010)

Check craigslist.


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## ametan (Jun 10, 2010)

I assure you I take good care of all of my animals. The line about just keeping the goldfish was a joke (and yes, there is more than one in the tank; fish is both singular and plural). I do think $150 is a lot for a cage. Seems most things for pets these days are becoming exorbitant. So I'm checking craigslist and ebay regularly.


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## pouchedrat (Jun 10, 2010)

Well I'm a weird person who goes all out on cages.  My guys had Ferret nations after all.  I really do suggest a martin's though for practical cages.  www.martinscages.com 
Just be sure to get powder coated, since anything galvanized rusts bad, and anything vinyl coated gets chewed off..  Craigslist or ebay works well with finding decent used and new cages.   

http://www.rattycorner.com/odds/calc.shtml  That's the rat cage calculator, it'll help with determining the right size for 2 rats.  females are smaller but more rambunctious.  Males are larger, but lazy-ass things.  

the R-680 is OK for 3 rats.  I have one right now for 3 YOUNG females (this was always my hospital/travel/lone male buck cage until recently).   I used to have two R-699's, until I switched over to the 2 ferret nation 142's, which i think are nicer looking and easier to clean and keep up with.  But those two are now part of a giant ferret nation 6-tier thing for my prairie dogs, so.. yeah, i'm actually in the market for a new cage as well soon.  

Petsmart sometimes sells cheap guinea pig cages that can be converted for rats.
http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753290  can hold up to 4 rats.  
when looking, also look for cage bar spacing.  ADULT rats can get away with 1" bar spacing (except for small females), but babies will need 1/2" bar spacing.  Also with cheap guinea pig cages, you can modify them with hammocks, toys, extra levels, etc. Just don't get ones with wire bottoms!   I think the cheap guinea pig cage I have right now I bought at Petsmart for 40 dollars total?  It can house two small, young rats easily.  I don't see the specific cage online, but I know I've seen them in three different Petsmarts in two different states.  

As far as toy expenses goes, a LOT of us will shop around at places like the dollar store for cheap toys.  You would be surprised what you can find there sometimes.  Baby toys can be used, cat toys, jingle balls, dog toys, HUMAN toys, some dollar stores even carry bird toys that you can use for them.  Also hammocks aren't very expensive if you make them yourself.  If you sew, just buy fleece and fabric scraps (avoid towel material) from jo-ann's, the remnants stuff is 50% off, and sometimes it's an additional 50% off of THAT price, so you can get a decent amount of fleece for cheap.  Sew up squares, attach with whatever you like (I actually use safety pins, don't even bother with anything I want to keep.  that way I can just toss them when they get too ratty and torn up and aren't worth washing anymore).  If that doesn't work, heck, just cut square pieces of fabric and hang them up that way.  It won't be pretty, but it's practical and they honestly don't care that much.  


IF those cages and such are still too expensive, you can BUILD an amazing, HUGE cage for a fraction of the cost!!   Just use vinyl coated (I don't like it, it doesn't last long, but powder coated is hard to get ahold of unless you know someone) 1/2" by 1" wire hardware cloth from Home Depot (found outdoors section, usually next to chicken wire), some wire cutters, some electrical zip ties to hold it together, and a plastic storage bin (usually found in target cheap, go with the low ones for under the bed, etc) for a base, and then go to town with building and creating your own cage.  I've done this MANY, many times!  I just enjoy the looks of the ferret nation cages right now, lol, and think they look nicer since they're right next to my front door.


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## Rex Libris (Jun 11, 2010)

I've never had the rust problem. But I do live in a very dry climate. You must dry such cages after cleaning.


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## pouchedrat (Jun 11, 2010)

We have very humid weather and hard water, which ruins everything here. I've always had issues with rusting or corroding with galvanized wire, especially the corners they decide to urinate the most in.  I do spot cleaning daily and have always completely washed the cages in the shower weekly, but it still would. 

Galvanized also soaks up odor pretty bad, and there's rumors it can be harmful if chewed on, especially as the zinc rusts (it gets that powdery white to it).  I don't know how much truth there is to that, but better safe than sorry I believe.


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## Bigboy (Jun 11, 2010)

Not sure if you've made your decision yet but I have to throw in my vote for rats.  They are simply delightful.


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## ametan (Jun 11, 2010)

Thanks so much for the info, pouchedrat! Very helpful indeed.

I think I just like the idea of getting a bargain and of making things yourself. I'm a huge handmade & secondhand supporter. I had a gigantic Ferret Nation when my ferrets were still around. They are pretty.


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## gromgrom (Jun 11, 2010)

xhexdx said:


> Rats all the way.  Hands-down the best rodent, in my opinion.  Get it small, handle it often.


i hate to agree with joe in every topic, but this is it. rats are amazing pets. they dont bite and get nippy like mice. get a good, cute, friendly one when its young. we have a rescue who urinates and poops on you when you hold it, and one is unsocial, while the other LOVES attention and to play with people

barring that, a dog, cat, or ferrett.


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## pouchedrat (Jun 11, 2010)

ametan said:


> Thanks so much for the info, pouchedrat! Very helpful indeed.
> 
> I think I just like the idea of getting a bargain and of making things yourself. I'm a huge handmade & secondhand supporter. I had a gigantic Ferret Nation when my ferrets were still around. They are pretty.


Some people even buy old bookcases, TV cabinets, and other things from yard sales and convert them into cages.  The only issue with that is while it LOOKS nice, if it's not properly sealed inside, that urine is eventually going to soak into the wood and REEK! 
http://bayimages.net/view-photos/rat-cage-made-from-bookcase-4891.html

Honestly do a google search for "homemade rat cage" and you'll find hundreds of ideas, tips, even instructions on how to build your  own!  Some are absolutely stunning while others are cheap but practical, yet still work wonderfully!


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## LeilaNami (Jun 25, 2010)

Someone in here said the rat lifespan is only 2 to 2.5 years and 3 if your lucky.  I wholeheartedly disagree.  If you feed them right, keep their cage clean, and you don't run into the tumor/cancer issue your rats could live a year or two longer.  I had two rats that lived to be 5 years old and two more that lived to be 4 years.  All of those were female.  In experience, the biggest killers of pet rats are tumors/cancer and respiratory infections.  

I do not like using wood shavings (aspen) for these guys.  It doesn't absorb as well as the paper products that are marketed.  Carefresh and SoftSorbent are better beddings IMHO.  I used SoftSorbent for all my babies because I find it easier to clean and slightly cheaper than Carefresh.


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## pouchedrat (Jun 26, 2010)

I've been a member of a large forum filled with rat enthusiasts since it's beginnings (and have known the moderator for 11 years), have been a rat person for 16 years now as well.  I have never heard of rats living 5 years except under Extremely rare circumstances.  The world's oldest rat was 7 years, and was a laboratory rat.  Prior to that, the oldest rat on record was only 5 years old, and that definitely was NOT the standard.  

I've known breeders with long lived rats, but they average a bit over 3 years of age and they breed specifically with longevity and health in mind (wasn't there a breeder in Australia who's rats average 4?).  One person on the boards had a rat who was 4+ but was DEFINITELY showing signs of aging, hind leg paralysis, and muscle degeneration.   Those with rats who resulted from a wild rat crossing (such as a female who escaped, and was impregnated with a wild norway rat) have reported fewer health problems, and longer lifespans in the half-wild offspring, but it's still only 3 - 4 years of age.  My longest lived rat was 3 1/2 years as confirmed by vet records, but I had another who I SWEAR was older, but since i adopted her as an adult, and she lived for over 3 years under my care afterwards, I have no way of saying how old she in fact was by her death.  Sometimes years sort of run into each other, so usually vet records help out with that.  

I would still say the average is 2-3 years lifespan.  That's what you're going to run into even with the most optimal caging, bedding (many of us don't even USE bedding, we use fabric that we shake out daily and wash in the washer without detergent), diet (many of us, once again, make our own food FROM SCRATCH or use Harlan Teklad or our own dry mixes since most food marketed for rats is rubbish), and veterinary care you can possibly provide.  We usually spay our females to prevent mammary tumors and ovarian cysts from forming, we neuter our males, we take them in for regular checkups, etc.  

The lifespan I still say is 2-3 years.  Anything over 3 and you're VERY lucky.  Just because a human can live 122 years, doesn't mean they all do. 

http://www.rattycorner.com/survey/   -rat age survey.  They are currently conducting a new one which includes spayed/neutered rats.  The previous survey is up from 2005.  There have been other rat lifespan surveys out there as well, which included how people kept them, whether they gave them bottled or tap water, how they were fed, etc, and of course their age at death.  There are actually a ton of them, even country based.  So far it seems Australia has the longest lived pet rats.


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## LeilaNami (Jul 2, 2010)

pouchedrat said:


> I've been a member of a large forum filled with rat enthusiasts since it's beginnings (and have known the moderator for 11 years), have been a rat person for 16 years now as well.  I have never heard of rats living 5 years except under Extremely rare circumstances.  The world's oldest rat was 7 years, and was a laboratory rat.  Prior to that, the oldest rat on record was only 5 years old, and that definitely was NOT the standard.
> 
> I've known breeders with long lived rats, but they average a bit over 3 years of age and they breed specifically with longevity and health in mind (wasn't there a breeder in Australia who's rats average 4?).  One person on the boards had a rat who was 4+ but was DEFINITELY showing signs of aging, hind leg paralysis, and muscle degeneration.   Those with rats who resulted from a wild rat crossing (such as a female who escaped, and was impregnated with a wild norway rat) have reported fewer health problems, and longer lifespans in the half-wild offspring, but it's still only 3 - 4 years of age.  My longest lived rat was 3 1/2 years as confirmed by vet records, but I had another who I SWEAR was older, but since i adopted her as an adult, and she lived for over 3 years under my care afterwards, I have no way of saying how old she in fact was by her death.  Sometimes years sort of run into each other, so usually vet records help out with that.
> 
> ...


I'm not saying 5 years is someone everyone can hope to achieve but I still maintain that two years is conservative for the lifespan of a rat.  The only one of my rats that lived that short of a life was due to a chronic respiratory infection/whatever the heck it was that a doctor couldn't identify and antibiotics had no effect and was most definitely due to inbreeding as he was feeder rat from a Petco.  That's great that you have all that experience and the mod connections, and I may not be quite that many years yet but my boyfriend does and had been a breeder of pet rats for quite some time.  Out of our combined experience, I maintain three is average and two is a sad conservative estimate of the life span of a feeder rat or one that unfortunately gets sick.  Out of the four rats I had mentioned, only one had developed a mammary tumor.  All the others were fine disease wise and active till the day they died.  One was a little chubby (understatement) but that was it.  I never had her checked but she was fat the day I got her and I couldn't get any weight off her for anything.  She still lived to be five though.   Maybe I've been lucky with my feeder rats (and they all were save the hairless) and they have some miracle-longevity gene or something but I base my opinion on personal experience.


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## Cirith Ungol (Jul 2, 2010)

After not having looked at this thread for about two years I'll come with a new suggestion.

You want something caged, with a lock and that can't be harmed by your child.

Get a cat.

Build a cage with ½in steel bars, a big padlock, and then hope that the leopard cub doesn't get out because it's gonna be the night stalker!

Or get a beaver. Put it in the bathtub. 

Or maybe get rats. A pair, I think they say either male and female or two females. Build the cage yourself maybe?


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## ametan (Jul 2, 2010)

Cirith Ungol said:


> After not having looked at this thread for about two years I'll come with a new suggestion.
> 
> You want something caged, with a lock and that can't be harmed by your child.
> 
> ...


Hmmmm.... I like the beaver idea, although I'd have to work on creating an outdoor bathtub for human use as our bathtub would then be the beaver's territory. Do you think I would need to provide the beaver with downed lumber? And if so, how much and would I have to bake it to remove pests?


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## Cirith Ungol (Jul 2, 2010)

ametan said:


> Hmmmm.... I like the beaver idea, although I'd have to work on creating an outdoor bathtub for human use as our bathtub would then be the beaver's territory. Do you think I would need to provide the beaver with downed lumber? And if so, how much and would I have to bake it to remove pests?


Yes, the beaver is very susceptible to lingering polyporous bracket fungi so sterilisation is very important with every piece of wood, preferably you get an autoclave. The wood should not be too hard (birch is a no go for example, so would oak) as the beaver will not work with that material. You might also need to flood the bathroom in case the beaver spontaneously multiplies, which they are known to do from time to time, as just like their relatives the snails are they twin sexed and can make babies when ever they get bored. Be sure to also give it a little pocket knife for more intricate wood working as mental stimulation is very important. A colour TV and a mini-bar might also help.

For your situation, just get a garden hose and you'll be able to keep yourself clean enough.


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