# P. Metallica enclosure too big?



## tyler1998 (Dec 30, 2018)

Hi there. I'm getting a poecilotheria metallica sling soon and I'm really curious how big of an enclosure I can put him/her in (the sling will be ~1"). I already bought a pretty ginormous exo terra cage, 18"x18"x24", and I wasn't planning on moving it into the enclosure until it was at least an inch or two bigger. When my green bottle blue was a sling I kept her in a large enclosure and she seemed to do really well in it. she would find a spot she liked, web it up, and when it was time to eat I would just drop a cricket on her web. When she got bored of that spot she would just wander around and find another hide.


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## Nightstalker47 (Dec 31, 2018)

Yeah thats not gonna work.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Theneil (Dec 31, 2018)

I would keep it in a 32oz deli (similar) until about 3". then i would put it in forever home.  But that's just me.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## Nightstalker47 (Dec 31, 2018)

Keep it simple, perch/hide and water dish. Should look something like this.

Reactions: Like 1


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## boina (Dec 31, 2018)

It worked with your GBB - an active, unafraid spider. It will not work with a P. metallica. During the last year I've seen two or three of those setups and in every case the spider hunkered down in one corner, hardly moved and never ate. Died in at least on of those cases.

Get a smaller setup with proper sized hides.


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## The Grym Reaper (Dec 31, 2018)

tyler1998 said:


> 18"x18"x24"


Yeah, that won't work (even for an adult).

That'd be ridiculously oversized for even a Poecilotheria ornata/rufilata and they're the biggest arboreals you can get, P. metallica are one of the smallest members of the genus.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Bigme213 (Dec 31, 2018)

Yeah that cage is way big even when it’s full grown


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## tyler1998 (Dec 31, 2018)

The Grym Reaper said:


> Yeah, that won't work (even for an adult).
> 
> That'd be ridiculously oversized for even a Poecilotheria ornata/rufilata and they're the biggest arboreals you can get, P. metallica are one of the smallest members of the genus.


I feel as though a p Metallica will hide in the same spot of its enclosure regardless of how big it is. I understand that it’s “unnecessary” but I highly doubt having a large enclosure would actually jeapordize the health of the tarantula! And if so, _how_? In their natural habitat they aren’t refined to a tiny enclosure


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## The Grym Reaper (Dec 31, 2018)

tyler1998 said:


> but I highly doubt having a large enclosure would actually jeapordize the health of the tarantula! And if so, _how_?


If they can't find their food/water (very plausible in an enclosure that's 3x leg span long/wide and 4x high at max size), it also makes maintaining optimal living conditions more difficult. Tarantulas don't need that much space. As @boina said, it'll probably hunker down in a corner and then probably die of starvation/dehydration.



tyler1998 said:


> In their natural habitat they aren’t refined to a tiny enclosure


Not a good argument, they're critically endangered in the wild.


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## tyler1998 (Dec 31, 2018)

boina said:


> It worked with your GBB - an active, unafraid spider. It will not work with a P. metallica. During the last year I've seen two or three of those setups and in every case the spider hunkered down in one corner, hardly moved and never ate. Died in at least on of those cases.
> 
> Get a smaller setup with proper sized hides.


What do you mean “it won’t work”? The tarantula will have multiple places to hide and feel safe. What do you mean it will just stay in the corner and hardly move? How is that different than their behavior in a small enclosure? Are you really suggesting that a tarantula will be overwhelmed by the space I’m giving it and starve it’s self? Or are you suggesting that it won’t be able to find its food? If you’re suggesting the latter, I take much time to make sure it can get it’s food (if it wants it) by using tongs to move it closer to the t.



The Grym Reaper said:


> If they can't find their food/water (very plausible in an enclosure that's 3x leg span long/wide and 4x high at max size), it also makes maintaining optimal living conditions more difficult. Tarantulas don't need that much space. As @boina said, it'll probably hunker down in a corner and then probably die of starvation/dehydration.
> 
> 
> 
> Not a good argument, they're critically endangered in the wild.


They’re critically endangered because their habitat is _shrinking_ because of logging... they’re not at all endangered because they can’t survive in a habitat that’s too big for them haha



tyler1998 said:


> They’re critically endangered because their habitat is _shrinking_ because of logging... they’re not at all endangered because they can’t survive in a habitat that’s too big for them haha


And do you really think a P. Metallica won’t travel any more than 3x it’s leg span to find water... that’s pretty far fetched. Tarantulas are more resilient than you give them credit for


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## The Grym Reaper (Dec 31, 2018)

tyler1998 said:


> Are you really suggesting that a tarantula will be overwhelmed by the space I’m giving it and starve it’s self?


Yes because it's been repeatedly proven by breeders on this forum that they will do this.

@cold blood do you want to do the honours, bruv?



tyler1998 said:


> They’re critically endangered because their habitat is _shrinking_ because of logging... they’re not at all endangered because they can’t survive in a habitat that’s too big for them haha


Survival rates of any tarantulas species in the wild are already shockingly bad before you even factor in stuff like human intervention, why do you think genera like Lasiodora pump out 1.5k eggs per sac?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## tyler1998 (Dec 31, 2018)

The Grym Reaper said:


> Yes because it's been repeatedly proven by breeders on this forum that they will do this.
> 
> @cold blood do you want to do the honours, bruv?
> 
> ...


I’ve read that a tarantulas lifespan is far shorter in captivity than in their natural habitat

Reactions: Disagree 4 | Funny 1


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## boina (Dec 31, 2018)

tyler1998 said:


> What do you mean “it won’t work”? The tarantula will have multiple places to hide and feel safe. What do you mean it will just stay in the corner and hardly move? How is that different than their behavior in a small enclosure? Are you really suggesting that a tarantula will be overwhelmed by the space I’m giving it and starve it’s self? Or are you suggesting that it won’t be able to find its food? If you’re suggesting the latter, I take much time to make sure it can get it’s food (if it wants it) by using tongs to move it closer to the t.


In nature over 90% of slings die. They need to balance the need to hide and the need to feed. More nervous spiders will hide more and not hunt and grow properly. Too bold spiders will get eaten. Nature is never an optimal environment. In my living room I don't want natural selection, I want my spider to live and grow. Nature is also full of nooks and crannies where a sling can hide. So you will need to stuff your enclosure full - and I mean full - of stuff. Then you'll never find your sling again. Good luck feeding. Many slings will not feed from tongs either.

Just do what you want. Just remember to post when the sling is dead.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## tyler1998 (Dec 31, 2018)

boina said:


> In nature over 90% of slings die. They need to balance the need to hide and the need to feed. More nervous spiders will hide more and not hunt and grow properly. Too bold spiders will get eaten. Nature is never an optimal environment. In my living room I don't want natural selection, I want my spider to live and grow. Nature is also full of nooks and crannies where a sling can hide. So you will need to stuff your enclosure full - and I mean full - of stuff. Then you'll never find your sling again. Good luck feeding. Many slings will not feed from tongs either.
> 
> Just do what you want. Just remember to post when the sling is dead.


I never said I would move it straight into the big enclosure, I said I would wait until it’s at least a few inches bigger. And yes I will keep you updated


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## The Grym Reaper (Dec 31, 2018)

tyler1998 said:


> And do you really think a P. Metallica won’t travel any more than 3x it’s leg span to find water.


Tarantulas rarely move more than 1 square ft away from their burrows/hides over their entire lives unless they're mature males looking for a mate.


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## boina (Dec 31, 2018)

tyler1998 said:


> I’ve read that a tarantulas lifespan is far shorter in captivity than in their natural habitat


Only if you provide an unsuitable enclosure. You really think every sling is going to survive in nature? And there are no studies about a tarantulas life span in the wild, but they live decades in captivity.


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## tyler1998 (Dec 31, 2018)

Then I will gladly move it’s water source closer to its hide


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## boina (Dec 31, 2018)

tyler1998 said:


> And do you really think a P. Metallica won’t travel any more than 3x it’s leg span to find water... that’s pretty far fetched. Tarantulas are more resilient than you give them credit for


P. metallica will get rained on. It doesn't need to travel.


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## Chris LXXIX (Dec 31, 2018)

tyler1998 said:


> I’ve read that a tarantulas lifespan is far shorter in captivity than in their natural habitat


That's true, hands down. I'd love to introduce in my CB T's enclosure powerful, genetically modified, T's natural born predators on a regular basis.

I also have a little, DIY made, 'HAARP' pure nerdy device so I simulate earthquakes/tsunami and whatever on my enclosures: substrate all over the place, with the hides crushing the T's

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Bob Lee (Dec 31, 2018)

tyler1998 said:


> I’ve read that a tarantulas lifespan is far shorter in captivity than in their natural habitat


Oh yes definitely, with keepers like you the average just plummets.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Bob Lee (Dec 31, 2018)

Asks a question, and then deny every answer that's against your own answer.
Why did you even ask in the first place???

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Nightstalker47 (Jan 1, 2019)

tyler1998 said:


> I’ve read that a tarantulas lifespan is far shorter in captivity than in their natural habitat


You read wrong, lots of misinformation out there...captive spiders mortality rates are probably 95% lower then in the wild. And that includes all the keepers who kill them by accident.


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## viper69 (Jan 4, 2019)

tyler1998 said:


> I take much time to make sure it can get it’s food (if it wants it) by using tongs to move it closer to the t.


Why would you use tongs to feed an animal that is an ambush predator capable of eating/hunting on its own in the wild. No one feeds those Ts.



tyler1998 said:


> they can’t survive in a habitat that’s too big for them haha


I understand what you are thinking. Listen, you can put any T in any large container you want, there's nothing wrong w/that. However, it's unlikely they will utilize the entire space regularly. Large setups are great if they have the right level of cage furniture so the T feels secure.

But most importantly, you will need to provide enough insects so they come in contact with the T. Large tanks equals decreasing chances of prey/predator interactions. And tongs are a great way for an accident to happen, or damaged fang/s. 



tyler1998 said:


> I’ve read that a tarantulas lifespan is far shorter in captivity than in their natural habitat


Did you read that in a cracker jack box? Ts live longer in captivity generally speaking.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Scoly (Jan 7, 2019)

Coming from a centipede keeper perspective here though I've kept plenty Ts in the past, and I've pondered and debated the enclosure size thing many times. Logically it makes sense that a larger enclosure should not cause problems, because they have plenty of space in the wild.

(And let's ignore the direction this thread took about survival rate, I think we can safely say it's not the excess space which kills these animals the wild, might have something to do with predation, starvation and parasites however...)

But back to large enclosures and why they are bad, the answer is simply that we don't know. It's not the inability to find prey or water, because you can hand feed them and even get them to drink from a syringe or so. It's not the temperature or humidity, at least how we measure it.

It almost seems as if it's that these animals are fine outdoors in the wild, fine in a compact enclosure kept indoors, but very often not fine in a large enclosure kept indoors.

Here are my ideas as to why it may be:

The temperature is different. Yes it may read the same, but in a small tub the warmth comes from all around, whereas a larger container is usually glass and although the heat source maintains the air temp at a good reading, the walls and materials are colder. We recognise wind chill factor for humans, perhaps there's something similar (i.e. a factor which makes it feel different to the measured temperature) operating in enclosures.
It's to do with acoustics and/or air vibrations.
A captive environment (with all these weird materials like cork bark, moss peat, plastic etc... Chemical smelling water, really weird thermal flows, completely different fungi and bacteria kicking around) is already stressful, and they can cope with that SO LONG as they are in a confined space where they feel safe, but put them in a large open space, and the cumulative stress is too much.
But that's all speculation. The simple fact of the matter is that we observe them doing less well in large enclosures, and that's the current reality we need to go by, rather than forcing something different because it “should” work according to an incomplete picture of what is going on.

On that note, I'm about to rehouse my giant goat eating centipede into a smaller enclosure because it's not coping so well in its big one. Just means I need to find a way to stop it running out every time I open the lid. I never said anything about smaller enclosures being more practical!


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## Ratmosphere (Jan 7, 2019)

Dude just get the right sized enclosure... Next time you get take out ask for an empty deli cup and use that.


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## martin hogue (Jan 12, 2019)

ive always kept my t's in small tanks. 2.5-3 gallons. take less space , easier to clean , easier to maintain temps/hum , and you actually get to see her. They dont require much space anyways.


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