# Dwarf Tarantulas?



## SandDeku (Apr 30, 2011)

Anyone know of a good dwarf tarantula for beginners? 3-5inches.  I'm looking for something that's out alot. I don't know what people's recomendation for them are.  Btw. if I give a T. alot of space. Will they use it? say if I get something like a 2ft long? or 3ft long? What about arboreal dwarfs(if applicable)?  Oh and I rather have something that isn't skittish--- Iam not out to handle it. But I don't know how to transfer a tarantula that is skittish to a safe container if I ever move or something.


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## ShadowBlade (Apr 30, 2011)

_A. minatrix_ are pretty small arboreals, and even some Taps aren't that big when you look at 'em.

_Cyriocosmus_ are pretty cool dwarfs, not gonna cause much problems, can be nervous little wrecks sometimes though.

_Paraphysa_ are probably the most chill I know.

-Sean


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## RB40 (Apr 30, 2011)

*Paraphysa*

Agreed Paraphysa are pretty much chilled. I have 2 female Paraphysa called Paraphysa sp. (blue form) Chilian Tiger that stay out in the open all the time, and they hardly ever use there hide out. I also have 3 slings that don't even seem skittish when I open there vial to feed them. I have had one of them for 3 years now, and she is about 3", and hasn't got any bigger. I also have some Euathlus sp. (Yellow) dwarf sp. that are super chilled out that are really great, but they don't get very big.


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## NikiP (Apr 30, 2011)

5" really isn't a dwarf & 4" is on the verge  

Most dwarfs will be 3" or less. C. fasciatum is one of the species that some people consider a dwarf, but others don't.

Totally recommend C. ritae. I got 6 slings back in Jan, at 1/2 - 1" they were already wearing adult colors & are pretty brightly colored. They really don't get very big. I'll agree with them being nervous. One of mine is a flicker, but it just fills me with the need to talk baby talk

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Mojo Jojo (Apr 30, 2011)

Cyriocsomus ritae is the coolest looking dwarf imo. My sling is pretty damn nervous.  I don't have a problem with that.


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## Kathy (Apr 30, 2011)

I have two Cyriocosmus elegans but I never see them, they burrow down deep and once in awhile I check to see if they are alive. What I like about them though is when they were the size of an ant they would eat smashed crickets so they were easy to feed.


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## High_Rolling_T (Apr 30, 2011)

_Euathlus sp. "Red/Yellow/Chilean Flame/Whatever you wanna call it"_ are great. Extremely docile, not skittish at all, always out in the open, get about 3" and look cool.  I've heard sometimes they are picky eaters(heard that about many dwarfs though, and of the 4 different dwarf species I have, it appears true) but mine has always had a great feeding response.  One of my favorite Ts by far.  Only downside I could think of being that they are rather slow growers so a sling will take awhile to start to get some colors.  Other than that, in every category I can think of, this species rocks


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## SandDeku (Apr 30, 2011)

wow thanks guys! Iam getting an idea of what I can get I guess.  much obliged.


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## rooster & hen (Apr 30, 2011)

C. Ritae is definately the way to go.  Mine is a chill (so far ) sub adult with great colors.  A good webber and such a show off !


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## SandDeku (May 7, 2011)

Now my question is--- what are the most active of dwarf tarantulas? What are the ones known for the higher levels of activity(For a tarantula)? 

Btw anyone know sites that sell dwarfies?

I may end up getting a regular larger tarantula in the end but I rather know my options. I think green bottle blue is supposed to be somewhat active(for a tarantula). I mean there's this guy with a T.Blondi on youtube he gives his T. a 90g tank! because not only is it big, its active.


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## xhexdx (May 7, 2011)

I have C. ritae 4th instar (first US captive bred!) available.   They spend plenty of time out and about, as slings and as adults.  One of my favorite dwarf species.


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## baboonfan (May 7, 2011)

SandDeku said:


> Anyone know of a good dwarf tarantula for beginners? 3-5inches.  I'm looking for something that's out alot. I don't know what people's recomendation for them are.  Btw. if I give a T. alot of space. Will they use it? say if I get something like a 2ft long? or 3ft long? What about arboreal dwarfs(if applicable)?  Oh and I rather have something that isn't skittish--- Iam not out to handle it. But I don't know how to transfer a tarantula that is skittish to a safe container if I ever move or something.


Nothing Ive ever had will use the space you want to give your Ts. Even my adult heavy webbers just pick a corner and live there. Alot of Ts just dig a hole and sit at the opening at night.

I think the coolest dwarf is the trinidad olive tree spider. Expect fast movement and defensive behaviors from them but if you arent a handler you should be fine. Mine is usually available for viewing and does do some impressive structure building. Transfers are easy. You just get a clear plastic tub from a department store and transfer inside. Only open the lid as much as you need to so you can shut it fast. If you fear speed bursts just set both cges in the plastic tub (spider cage and new cage open) and wait the T out. I did this with a fair sized P formosa with hardly any trouble. Transfer was complete in under 20 mins.


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## xhexdx (May 7, 2011)

Do you just add 'tree spider' after all the common names you use?

H. incei aren't arboreal...not in a sense that you'd call them a 'tree spider'.


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## RoseT (May 7, 2011)

hahaha@ hexd


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## baboonfan (May 7, 2011)

xhexdx said:


> Do you just add 'tree spider' after all the common names you use?
> 
> H. incei aren't arboreal...not in a sense that you'd call them a 'tree spider'.


You were deeply offended by my post. I would apologize for the severe and life changing injury my post caused if it were only aimed at you in the first place.

They are many times listed as tree spiders within their common names. I didnt include the proper name simply because the common name will do just fine for anyone looking them up on the net.

Mine didnt read the same book you did as it likes to hang around on top of its web structure. Some Ts just arent interested in education for some reason, perhaps you would want to talk to mine about its improper arboreal behaviors? I will warn you that it doesnt listen well very often but you are welcome to talk to it if it makes you feel better.


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## kaydyn1512 (May 7, 2011)

xhexdx said:


> I have C. ritae 4th instar (first US captive bred!) available.   They spend plenty of time out and about, as slings and as adults.  One of my favorite dwarf species.


Joe, when did you get a sac from your girl? I have bred C ritae myself and am curious to know how you know yours are first us captive bred!


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## baboonfan (May 7, 2011)

RoseT said:


> hahaha@ hexd


What isnt funny is that certain "experts" who come here are kids living with their parents who read a book about Ts once. People come here and post questions because they found a hobby they are interested in, they arent looking for some angry kid in need of a target to take his hormonal rage out on. 

The more people we can keep interested in this hobby the better as many want to ban the keeping of Ts. Everyone I speak to at work thinks Ts are deadly poisonous! If angry little kids (like the one who replied to my post) dominate the information sources about this hobby we will lose our tarantula market.

In the future help us all direct the angry little kids somewhere else, let this be a place where people are welcome to ask questions and answer them free of puberty issues and other assorted forms of youth rage.


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## NikiP (May 7, 2011)

baboonfan said:


> You were deeply offended by my post. I would apologize for the severe and life changing injury my post caused if it were only aimed at you in the first place.
> 
> They are many times listed as tree spiders within their common names. I didnt include the proper name simply because the common name will do just fine for anyone looking them up on the net.
> 
> Mine didnt read the same book you did as it likes to hang around on top of its web structure. Some Ts just arent interested in education for some reason, perhaps you would want to talk to mine about its improper arboreal behaviors? I will warn you that it doesnt listen well very often but you are welcome to talk to it if it makes you feel better.





baboonfan said:


> What isnt funny is that certain "experts" who come here are kids living with their parents who read a book about Ts once. People come here and post questions because they found a hobby they are interested in, they arent looking for some angry kid in need of a target to take his hormonal rage out on.
> 
> The more people we can keep interested in this hobby the better as many want to ban the keeping of Ts. Everyone I speak to at work thinks Ts are deadly poisonous! If angry little kids (like the one who replied to my post) dominate the information sources about this hobby we will lose our tarantula market.
> 
> In the future help us all direct the angry little kids somewhere else, let this be a place where people are welcome to ask questions and answer them free of puberty issues and other assorted forms of youth rage.


I googled the "common name" you used & it appears to be useless :?

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=trinidad+olive+tree+spider

However, if I google just trinidad olive, I find a whole bunch of stuff.

http://www.google.com/search?aq=f&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=trinidad+olive

So it would appear that you might be the only one using the combination of "trinidad olive tree spider".

I'm all for someone telling off all the kids you've described, but you'll sound less like a twat if you make sure you are actually trying to offend a one of the angry kids with limited experience.


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## xhexdx (May 7, 2011)

kaydyn1512 said:


> Joe, when did you get a sac from your girl? I have bred C ritae myself and am curious to know how you know yours are first us captive bred!


It's in the breeding reports - the only report on C. ritae.



baboonfan said:


> You were deeply offended by my post. I would apologize for the severe and life changing injury my post caused if it were only aimed at you in the first place.
> 
> They are many times listed as tree spiders within their common names. I didnt include the proper name simply because *the common name will do just fine for anyone looking them up on the net*.
> 
> Mine didnt read the same book you did as it likes to hang around on top of its web structure. Some Ts just arent interested in education for some reason, perhaps you would want to talk to mine about its improper arboreal behaviors? I will warn you that it doesnt listen well very often but you are welcome to talk to it if it makes you feel better.


Guess what?  The scientific name would do even better, and you teach someone something at the same time.  Oh, and the rest of us don't have to guess at what you're referring to.



baboonfan said:


> What isnt funny is that certain "experts" who come here are kids living with their parents who read a book about Ts once. People come here and post questions because they found a hobby they are interested in, they arent looking for some angry kid in need of a target to take his hormonal rage out on.
> 
> The more people we can keep interested in this hobby the better as many want to ban the keeping of Ts. Everyone I speak to at work thinks Ts are deadly poisonous! If angry little kids (like the one who replied to my post) dominate the information sources about this hobby we will lose our tarantula market.
> 
> In the future help us all direct the angry little kids somewhere else, let this be a place where people are welcome to ask questions and answer them free of puberty issues and other assorted forms of youth rage.


You're a joke, get over yourself.


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## Kathy (May 7, 2011)

baboonfan said:


> What isnt funny is that certain "experts" who come here are kids living with their parents who read a book about Ts once. People come here and post questions because they found a hobby they are interested in, they arent looking for some angry kid in need of a target to take his hormonal rage out on.
> 
> The more people we can keep interested in this hobby the better as many want to ban the keeping of Ts. Everyone I speak to at work thinks Ts are deadly poisonous! If angry little kids (like the one who replied to my post) dominate the information sources about this hobby we will lose our tarantula market.
> 
> In the future help us all direct the angry little kids somewhere else, let this be a place where people are welcome to ask questions and answer them free of puberty issues and other assorted forms of youth rage.


AWESOME post!  :worship::worship:    I totally agree.  It's always sad when people ask questions and get shot down with rudeness.   The best teachers are the ones who answer all questions with respect.  It encourages people to learn more.


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## NikiP (May 7, 2011)

Kathy said:


> AWESOME post!  :worship::worship:    I totally agree.  It's always sad when people ask questions and get shot down with rudeness.   The best teachers are the ones who answer all questions with respect.  It encourages people to learn more.


But did you read that because his one H. incei has decided to web up higher, they should now be tree spiders?

So with that, I guess everyone with an H. lividum that is taking it's sweet time to burrow should now label them as terrestrials? 

There are exceptions to every rule, but because there is, doesn't mean the exception should now be the rule.


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## synyster (May 7, 2011)

baboonfan said:


> What isnt funny is that certain "experts" who come here are kids living with their parents who read a book about Ts once. People come here and post questions because they found a hobby they are interested in, they arent looking for some angry kid in need of a target to take his hormonal rage out on.
> 
> The more people we can keep interested in this hobby the better as many want to ban the keeping of Ts. Everyone I speak to at work thinks Ts are deadly poisonous! If angry little kids (like the one who replied to my post) dominate the information sources about this hobby we will lose our tarantula market.
> 
> In the future help us all direct the angry little kids somewhere else, let this be a place where people are welcome to ask questions and answer them free of puberty issues and other assorted forms of youth rage.


This post makes sense I will agree.

But please, before posting an answer, do the proper research. It's an easy way to stop the arguing that can follow.

And also, please search up which member you are posting at before speculating about angry kids 

To the OP, I think you have had alot of good suggestions in this thread which will help you make up your mind. Just omit to house it in a "2 ft long tank" especially if it is a dwarf species. All this space is of no need as it will only stress out your T while hunting for it's prey


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## SandDeku (May 7, 2011)

xhexdx said:


> I have C. ritae 4th instar (first US captive bred!) available.   They spend plenty of time out and about, as slings and as adults.  One of my favorite dwarf species.


Looks nice. Would love to see ones with a huge bulbous butt but that's fine too.  I like the colors on that little beastie. See I see my wolf spider move around its environment like every couple of hours(6-7hours I think) and explore for like 10mins or so. Sometimes just a couple of minutes. Has plenty of hide outs. Never goes in them. I even tried hearding it with a pen to go in there since at first it freaked out. But yeah. I guess that maybe why spiders live less than T.s. But I guess in the end if I can see it ill still be happy.  I appreciate movement. But its not an ultimate necessity for me. Its just like a bonus if anything. If its out in the open thats fine enough for me. 

@ Baboon: I'm not giving it a huge arsed tank like that. That's pointless. lol. But something like a 10gallon or even a 30g would be the most i'd give any t. since I highly doubt they would be overly active like a lizard would be. 

I understand what you mean though. And your posts are quite funny with a bittersweet of sarcasm. But since its not directed at me at all I won't really comment further on that. lol. 

Umm thanks though. I'm just hoping to see all the t.s I can find so I can look at my options. I do like web makers but I also love ones that are ferocious hunters. Those ones would ussually be active. I guess I just wish I could find something that is somewhat like this wolf spider I found. In color maybe--- but would care more of personality. This one is a bit of a bold feller. I just put in a cricket the dang beast just went at it like a tiger. Its not super active. But as far as spiders go. this one has been the most active I'ved seen. It likes to travel quite a bit. 

But I want a T. because spiders only last a season or two.  I'm keeping the wolfie to convince my parents that spiders and T. aren't really that bad as they make em seem to be. 


And of course not I wouldn't hold a spider or a tarantula. For me that's a big no no. I like looking at them. I don't gain anything from holding them but a fright.

As for the terrarium I'm probably going to invest in a tarantula specific terrarium like the one Talon4WD has on youtube(i think its him) the one with the nice row of custom built specialized tarantula set ups. 

I hope this clears up what I meant. Umm as for what you said about most t.s just hang out in a corner. Yeah that's most. But I'm pretty sure there are SOME out there that will do a bit more than just that.

---------- Post added at 02:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:00 PM ----------




baboonfan said:


> What isnt funny is that certain "experts" who come here are kids living with their parents who read a book about Ts once. People come here and post questions because they found a hobby they are interested in, they arent looking for some angry kid in need of a target to take his hormonal rage out on.
> 
> The more people we can keep interested in this hobby the better as many want to ban the keeping of Ts. Everyone I speak to at work thinks Ts are deadly poisonous! If angry little kids (like the one who replied to my post) dominate the information sources about this hobby we will lose our tarantula market.
> 
> In the future help us all direct the angry little kids somewhere else, let this be a place where people are welcome to ask questions and answer them free of puberty issues and other assorted forms of youth rage.


Umm i know that the post you made is directed at someone else. But I don't think he was trying to rage at you or anything. Though you're kinda comming off as if you're raging right now yourself. ummm

Can't we all just get along? Age doesn't matter. Those "kids" are the future of this hobby as well as when you die(seeing as if you're refering to people as kids Iam assuming 30-40) who will be there? 

Most people turn away from pet related hobbies just because people kinda dog-pile on each other on alot of the forums. This one it doesnt happen too often. But in alot of other forums I go to alot of the people seem to act like a know-it-all smug  prick. That's an attitude that should be avoided. As to them it may seem like they're not being a smug prick. But to the other person it can be. Point is--- don't judge till you walk on the other persons shoes. yatta yatta yatta.

If we all got along we would be able to focus on the real issues at hand. The possible ban of ALL exotic animals. Not just spiders/tarantulas/myriapods. Theres also frogs, toads, turtles, snakes, lizards, hamsters, chinchillas, ferrets, etc. Well maybe not syrean hamsters but yeah you know what I mean. 

The more organized we are, the better. I know care on animals ussually tend to vary.  Since on one canadian forum people say toads don't need a lot of space. Like a cane toad could go in a 10g or a 20g. While in the american forum people think they should go in a 30breeder or bigger. 

Point is--- people have different opinions and everyone should learn to respect each others opinion. UNLESS the opinion is something that has been proven by A LOT of people to be completely and utterly wrong. Like saying something like cactus do not need water. Which in reality cactus should be watered everytime the soil gets dry--- not just "once a week". Which the actual fact is--- cactus LOVE water but HATE having their "feet" aka roots wet for a long time. A cup of water is enough for them. Too much water and it dies. Too little water and it dies.

But if its something like say people say a toads diet should be mainly crickets as a staple. While others like myself say you can use stuff like earthworms as a staple(people say its too fatty but it actually isn't). As well as you can use stuff like roaches.  Or say something like meal worms. People like myself do not like feeding meal worms to any reptile and amphibian because of the extreme levels of chitin. Which is in our opinion not that good. We think its like gum it just stays in their stomach. While other people say the opposite. 


I Once had a friend who was a gecko keeper as his major pet. As in that's mostly what he had. Sure he had beardies, a SMALL amount of frogs and maybe a T. or two. But he had like say 15 geckos or whatever. keeping stuff like gargoyle geckos, and day geckos, and whatever. His opinion was meal worms and super worms are a great staple. My opinion is they're not. His animals are healthy so that's what works for them. I guess each animal has different needs and wants. People should also realize that the care guide is not set in stone. That's the number one rule of the hobby of pets. It's never in stone. Except the unspoken obvious.   Etc. etc. So point being not every person is the same. Well same with animals.

---------- Post added at 02:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:15 PM ----------




NikiP said:


> But did you read that because his one H. incei has decided to web up higher, they should now be tree spiders?
> 
> So with that, I guess everyone with an H. lividum that is taking it's sweet time to burrow should now label them as terrestrials?
> 
> There are exceptions to every rule, but because there is, doesn't mean the exception should now be the rule.


Agreed. The "rule" is just well like say "rule of thumb". It's more of a general way of doing things. That's what I was looking for. 

Say general rule of thumb would 1inch of fish per 2gallons. But for some fish like say a puffer fish that only grows 5inches like a spotted puffer would do better in a larger tank than even 30gallons. Just because of its activity. That would be the exception. There's always exception to every rule. But it's not that common in spiders or tarantulas as it is with stuff like fish or frogs or toads or snakes or dogs. etc. 

So I agree. It's just a general method of doing things.

---------- Post added at 02:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:20 PM ----------




xhexdx said:


> It's in the breeding reports - the only report on C. ritae.


So you sell them the little spiderlings? It maybe a while before I get them since I'm hoping to get approval. How long will you be able to hold one female for? Like one of the spiderling females? IF you can tell that is.  As well as if not you--- who else sells spiderling of  C. or atleast juveniles that can easily be sexed? 

@synyster:
There's not really that many posts on regarding different t.s to make it "alot" of suggestions. I'd like to get more before I even make a decision. I'm mainly asking questions about current keepers and their personal experiences and opinion. I guess if I want a straight foward answer i'd google it. But I rather just get opinions first.

It's not going to kill anyone or this forum to have a thread up for a while. There's not too many posters to begin with to make a difference whether my thread is up and running. Like say if I was taking the spot of other people with more questions I'd gladly stop asking questions on this thread. 

But I made the thread for a reason--- to get answers. I get my answers in a mix of based opinion/experience and actual facts.  In the long run it ends up helping.


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## Mez (May 7, 2011)

So how do I look up my 'Black & White Spider'? Common names might be ok for some looking them up online, sometimes, but you shouldn't just make your own up. C'mon now.


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## kaydyn1512 (May 7, 2011)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaydyn1512  
Joe, when did you get a sac from your girl? I have bred C ritae myself and am curious to know how you know yours are first us captive bred!

Originally Posted by xhexdx
It's in the breeding reports - the only report on C. ritae.


I don't post breeding reports on here but I guess if we go based on your dates I would have the first us captive bred and born C ritae. (I do NOT claim that-just making a point)
L'd sac 8/9/10
P'd sac 9/6/10 #115 EWL
1st instar 9/9/10
2nd instar 10/7/10

YouTube video pulling sac dated 9/7/10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efDL_-rGmjM

I'm in no way trying to claim first time breeding but I think if you claim to be the first, you should be sure! Just a suggestion.


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## xhexdx (May 7, 2011)

kaydyn1512 said:


> *I don't post breeding reports on here *but I guess if we go based on your dates I would have the first us captive bred and born C ritae. (I do NOT claim that-just making a point)
> L'd sac 8/9/10
> P'd sac 9/6/10 #115 EWL
> 1st instar 9/9/10
> ...


Where *do* you post breeding reports then?

Maybe you should post them - just a suggestion.

Not sure what you expect from me...you're suggesting I post threads and search for videos or any other evidence that someone else successfully bred them?

Also curious - did you actually pair yours, or did you get a WC female who was already gravid?

Lastly, your link didn't work.

EDIT:  Ok, I played around with the link and managed to get a viewable video from it.  She's definitely got a huge sac.



SandDeku said:


> So you sell them the little spiderlings? It maybe a while before I get them since I'm hoping to get approval. How long will you be able to hold one female for? Like one of the spiderling females? IF you can tell that is.  As well as if not you--- who else sells spiderling of  C. or atleast juveniles that can easily be sexed?


They're too small right now (4th instar) to be able to sex.  Not sure who else has C. ritae for sale right now.


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## Unravel (May 7, 2011)

xhexdx said:


> You're a joke, get over yourself.


Truth is, people who know about H. incei and the general information about their nature will not call them a tree spider, people who are new might until they figure out for themselves that h. incei are not tree spiders and then proceed to stop calling them that. 

You're just being randomly offensive with your subset of limited knowledge. Yes you are rather knowledgeable about tarantulas but is it so difficult to just be modest, like the many people who know more than you and are actually modest, or deliver the same information in a non-offensive way.

Also your US FIRST!!!!!!!!!!! C. ritae breeding, if someone posted saying that with no proof other than it not being posted on the breeding reports in arachnoboards you'd probably be the first to criticize the hell out of em 
us human beings are pretty funny like that eh


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## xhexdx (May 7, 2011)

Unravel said:


> Also your US FIRST!!!!!!!!!!! C. ritae breeding, *if someone posted saying that with no proof other than it not being posted on the breeding reports in arachnoboards you'd probably be the first to criticize the hell out of em*
> us human beings are pretty funny like that eh


Sure doesn't look like that's how I originally put it...but if that's how you interpret it, that's your thing.

As for what I bolded...would you mind rewording it in a more understandable manner?

Right now I *think* you're saying that if someone who _doesn't _have proof and _didn't _post a breeding report says they were first to breed it, I'd be the first to criticize.

Um...yeah.  If that's what you meant to say, then I sure don't get the point you were trying to make.

I have proof *and* a breeding report. *shrug*

If someone beat me to it, fine, but I was the first to post a breeding report on this species, and I didn't even make the claim until I mentioned it in this thread, where so many others are so eager to take the "rights" to being first to successfully breed a species in captivity.

Take it as whatever you want to take it as.  If I wasn't first, fine.  Sorry if I ruffled feathers by saying it when there wasn't exactly any obvious "evidence" to the contrary.

I'm also curious:



Unravel said:


> You're just being randomly offensive with your subset of limited knowledge.


Would you consider this sentence offensive if someone said it to you?


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## BrettG (May 7, 2011)

Mark my words,there are people out there that breed but do NOT use AB or post breeding reports,so no one knows about it.I know a few people like this. Other than that,who really cares?Honestly? And NooBs,just be quiet and listen to Joe. Less talk,more listening.You may not agree with what he says now,but after you gain some knowledge it will all make sense.And with that,I am out of this thread. Lunch is more entertaining........


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## ShadowBlade (May 7, 2011)

xhexdx said:


> Not sure what you expect from me...you're suggesting I post threads and search for videos or any other evidence that someone else successfully bred them?


I dunno, we expect alot of people to do research on things before they are posted. And to claim something like 'first US captive bred', a term tossed around rather often lately IMO, shouldn't be done without conclusive evidence as to WHY you know you were the first. Not because you were the first to post a report on the forum.

If this was about being the first to publish a scientific paper on a matter, this would be an understandable claim to 'be first'. That kind of attention is great for funding and such.. but we're not in need that.

-Sean


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## synyster (May 7, 2011)

@ SandDeku

I didn't intend my comment to make the posting on opinions that may help you, stop. Sorry if you interpreted it that way but it was supposed to be a "read between the lines" comment to get everybody back on posting responses to your original question. I'm the first one who dosen't mind a post staying on top for a while. I just think that the thread is taking a different and un-neccessary turn, please correct me if i'm wrong, and was trying to get back on the original  issue.


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## Unravel (May 7, 2011)

xhexdx said:


> Sure doesn't look like that's how I originally put it...but if that's how you interpret it, that's your thing.
> 
> As for what I bolded...would you mind rewording it in a more understandable manner?
> 
> ...


i'd like to apologize for derailing the thread...

But to answer your question, yeah i'd take it what i said to you as offensive. I was just trying to say that being very knowledgeable about tarantulas does not give someone grounds to correct someone in an insulting manner. Honestly im a bit biased towards you from when you critized me for "rescuing" a tarantula from a pet store, and trying to carry the arguement to another board. By the way, the turn out of that whole affair and me telling the manager what horrible shape the tarantula was in, is the store CLOSING their reptile section. So i guess they won't be buying and not caring for them anymore. The tarantula itself has molted and is doing great at the moment. 

Regarding my other statement... What i was saying is that if all of a sudden there is a person on the boards tomorrow who posts a first breeding report of a specie thats not yet on AB and claims it as first US breeding, you might be the first to tell him how the tarantula hobby does not revolve around arachnoboards and he needs to have more proof.. just saying.. either way congratulations on the C ritae. 

In general you can be very helpful and are knowledgeable i just don't understand why you have to wield your knowledge in a way that is usually deragotory to others. I don't think its just my interpretation either but i guess you can say it is. 

More on topic... im gaining a real appreciate for the dwarfs, they have some awesome colors, looking to get some h incei myself!


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## baboonfan (May 7, 2011)

Unravel said:


> i'd like to apologize for derailing the thread...
> 
> But to answer your question, yeah i'd take it what i said to you as offensive. I was just trying to say that being very knowledgeable about tarantulas does not give someone grounds to correct someone in an insulting manner. Honestly im a bit biased towards you from when you critized me for "rescuing" a tarantula from a pet store, and trying to carry the arguement to another board. By the way, the turn out of that whole affair and me telling the manager what horrible shape the tarantula was in, is the store CLOSING their reptile section. So i guess they won't be buying and not caring for them anymore. The tarantula itself has molted and is doing great at the moment.
> 
> ...


You arent alone in the interpretation. In my experience an "expert" tends to be a know it all who truly knows very little, they only exist to entertain themselves by starting very stupid arguments on these forums. The last individual in the whole of the world anyone should want advise from is an "expert".

The dwarfs are great. Too many keepers are stuck on having big Ts when alot of the big Ts tend to be large pet rocks. H incei are real construction workers that shouldnt be overlooked by anyone. Mine never stops building.


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## SandDeku (May 7, 2011)

xhexdx said:


> Where *do* you post breeding reports then?
> 
> Maybe you should post them - just a suggestion.
> 
> ...


ahh! well if you keep some untill they are slightly big enough to sex that'd be fine. Cause idk how long an adult male of this species will last for. So having a male may prove useless since it's my first T. and Iam not trying to breed it. But thanks.  

@ synyster: I thought you meant that this thread itself should end and that I shouldn't keep it up to rake in more opinions regarding dwarf tarantulas.

I do agree to get back on the original topic but, I try to interfere as little as possible.

---------- Post added at 08:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:10 PM ----------




baboonfan said:


> You arent alone in the interpretation. In my experience an "expert" tends to be a know it all who truly knows very little, they only exist to entertain themselves by starting very stupid arguments on these forums. The last individual in the whole of the world anyone should want advise from is an "expert".
> 
> The dwarfs are great. Too many keepers are stuck on having big Ts when alot of the big Ts tend to be large pet rocks. H incei are real construction workers that shouldnt be overlooked by anyone. Mine never stops building.


3 things wrong with that--- he's not pursuing that arguement anymore. In other words you're reviving a sore topic. 

2nd The last individual you wanna take information from is not a expert. More so a pet store employee if anything. Most of them know NOTHING about what they keep. They just work there. Or listen to people from youtube. I hate the caresheets people post there claiming to be experts. Sorta pisses me off. 

3rdly didn't you say not to expect the tarantula NOT to use the whole space given to it? but you're saying they're construction workers(confused).


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## baboonfan (May 7, 2011)

SandDeku said:


> ahh! well if you keep some untill they are slightly big enough to sex that'd be fine. Cause idk how long an adult male of this species will last for. So having a male may prove useless since it's my first T. and Iam not trying to breed it. But thanks.
> 
> @ synyster: I thought you meant that this thread itself should end and that I shouldn't keep it up to rake in more opinions regarding dwarf tarantulas.
> 
> ...


The problem with "experts" is that they all think they know everything there is to know. If you stick with this hobby long enough you will run into a million "experts" and all of them will only use good forums like this one to pick arguments. There is no such thing as a keeper who knows everything there is to know. "Expert" is more of a personality disorder than a level of knowledge. Anyone who keeps Ts for a few years and bothers to do research is going to know more than the average pet store employee.

Even a heavy webber isnt going to use all of the space in an overly large container. A keeper who uses overly large containers just ends up using too much space while keeping the T in an environment where introduced feeders are free to wander outside of the Ts territory. People who use large containers have the best of intentions but the end result often doesnt work out so well.


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## kaydyn1512 (May 7, 2011)

xhexdx said:


> Where *do* you post breeding reports then?
> 
> Maybe you should post them - just a suggestion.
> 
> ...


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## AbraxasComplex (May 7, 2011)

baboonfan said:


> A keeper who uses overly large containers just ends up using too much space while keeping the T in an environment where introduced feeders are free to wander outside of the Ts territory. People who use large containers have the best of intentions but the end result often doesnt work out so well.



I fully disagree with this. As I have several dwarf species that I have raised and bred in massive tanks relative to their size. Case and point, I have a fully planted vertically-orientated vase that can probably house 20-25 gallons of water. Inside is a slanted grade of cork bark and soil that reaches the top and a large satin pothos that has grown to take over the vase. Housed inside is a single 1'' Heterothele villosella female. She has webbed an area under the leaves about 1/3 of the way up from the base and has many other web tunnels through the cork bark and soil. I feed her two crickets a week and she somehow magically catches both. 

How do I know this? I am a neurotic, nearly OCD hobbyist that counts his hundreds of tarantulas at night with a flashlight. I'm not as bad as before, but I have had nights where I spend up to 2 or 3 hours with night time viewings and countings. I give them natural environments, I see them all the time at night, and witness them hunt and consume their prey, overly large environment or not.


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## baboonfan (May 7, 2011)

AbraxasComplex said:


> I fully disagree with this. As I have several dwarf species that I have raised and bred in massive tanks relative to their size. Case and point, I have a fully planted vertically-orientated vase that can probably house 20-25 gallons of water. Inside is a slanted grade of cork bark and soil that reaches the top and a large satin pothos that has grown to take over the vase. Housed inside is a single 1'' Heterothele villosella female. She has webbed an area under the leaves about 1/3 of the way up from the base and has many other web tunnels through the cork bark and soil. I feed her two crickets a week and she somehow magically catches both.
> 
> How do I know this? I am a neurotic, nearly OCD hobbyist that counts his hundreds of tarantulas at night with a flashlight. I'm not as bad as before, but I have had nights where I spend up to 2 or 3 hours with night time viewings and countings. I give them natural environments, I see them all the time at night, and witness them hunt and consume their prey, overly large environment or not.


Interesting post, your vase enclosure sounds nice. Im glad your T is using all of the space.

I had experimented with large containers in the past and discovered that even the heavy builders were picking a section and living there. When I introduced crickets they had a habit of wandering around in the wrong section. If I left them there overnight there was only a 50/50 chance that it would be gone the next day.

I switched to smaller containers and havent had that problem ever since. I am of course not using overly small containers while being careful not to use overly large containers.


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## SandDeku (May 8, 2011)

baboonfan said:


> The problem with "experts" is that they all think they know everything there is to know. If you stick with this hobby long enough you will run into a million "experts" and all of them will only use good forums like this one to pick arguments. There is no such thing as a keeper who knows everything there is to know. "Expert" is more of a personality disorder than a level of knowledge. Anyone who keeps Ts for a few years and bothers to do research is going to know more than the average pet store employee.
> 
> Even a heavy webber isnt going to use all of the space in an overly large container. A keeper who uses overly large containers just ends up using too much space while keeping the T in an environment where introduced feeders are free to wander outside of the Ts territory. People who use large containers have the best of intentions but the end result often doesnt work out so well.


Well its controversial since people wouldn't know that's a bad thing. 
As for experts I do agree some people can be pricks out there. But I guess its a part of life. The only true experts are the humble biologists/herpetologists/arachnologists/ etc. Anyone with an actual legit degree. Idc who says what--- but whoever has the degree has earned the right to the title of "expert" in my opinion.

---------- Post added at 01:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:40 AM ----------




AbraxasComplex said:


> I fully disagree with this. As I have several dwarf species that I have raised and bred in massive tanks relative to their size. Case and point, I have a fully planted vertically-orientated vase that can probably house 20-25 gallons of water. Inside is a slanted grade of cork bark and soil that reaches the top and a large satin pothos that has grown to take over the vase. Housed inside is a single 1'' Heterothele villosella female. She has webbed an area under the leaves about 1/3 of the way up from the base and has many other web tunnels through the cork bark and soil. I feed her two crickets a week and she somehow magically catches both.
> 
> How do I know this? I am a neurotic, nearly OCD hobbyist that counts his hundreds of tarantulas at night with a flashlight. I'm not as bad as before, but I have had nights where I spend up to 2 or 3 hours with night time viewings and countings. I give them natural environments, I see them all the time at night, and witness them hunt and consume their prey, overly large environment or not.


I think most people in the pet industry asides of dogs/cats/ and small furries are near OCD. I myself being one.


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## baboonfan (May 8, 2011)

SandDeku said:


> Well its controversial since people wouldn't know that's a bad thing.
> As for experts I do agree some people can be pricks out there. But I guess its a part of life. The only true experts are the humble biologists/herpetologists/arachnologists/ etc. Anyone with an actual legit degree. Idc who says what--- but whoever has the degree has earned the right to the title of "expert" in my opinion.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 01:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:40 AM ----------
> ...


People I consider to be good sources of information would be the well established breeders. Rob C for example is a friendly guy who really knows his business. The "experts" I was talking about are internet tough guys (AKA keyboard commandos) who use forums to get arguments started without ever really having good advice for anyone.

Cage size is a debate that might never be settled. Rob C for example would strongly disagree with my opinion given his preference for large cages. My experience with large cages is that feeders are too free to roam well outside of a Ts territory.


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## Bill S (May 8, 2011)

SandDeku said:


> The only true experts are the humble biologists/herpetologists/arachnologists/ etc. Anyone with an actual legit degree. Idc who says what--- but whoever has the degree has earned the right to the title of "expert" in my opinion


Interesting interpretation, but not one that I would agree with.  "Expert", in my opinion, is someone who knows his/her subject *very* well.  It has nothing to do with whether they are nice humble people or angry curmudgeons.  There are no degrees offered anywhere for tarantula husbandry, so that can't very well be used as a standard either.  (Plus degrees do not always guarantee someone knows their subject - only that they survived an eductional process.)

If someone is rude but provides valuable information, while another person is sweet and humble and provides useless misinformation, which one would you consider the most useful?  Whose advice would you follow?  I'll place my bets on the person who knows what they are talking about, regardless of how gently he talks about it.

Baboonfan, you seem to have a chip on your shoulder towards anyone who tells you that you are wrong.  You were much more inflamatory in your responses than the people you are attacking were in theirs, and only because they didn't coddle you.  Yes, Joe can be blunt.  I don't always agree with him, but I have to admit he generally knows his subject well.  His expertise does not diminish because of his bluntness, although his popularity with some members might.  But your tirade didn't exactly reflect well on you either.

---------- Post added at 12:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:34 AM ----------




baboonfan said:


> Cage size is a debate that might never be settled. Rob C for example would strongly disagree with my opinion given his preference for large cages. My experience with large cages is that feeders are too free to roam well outside of a Ts territory.


The value of large cages will change based on a number of other considerations. Cage size that works well for a person who provides one set of conditions will not work as well for someone who provides a different set of conditions.  It's not that one answer is the correct one.  As has been pointed out many times before, animals in the wild do not live in small cages.

"Territory" is also a misused term in a lot of cases.  I know what you meant in your message quoted above, but I think I'd use something like "effective hunting area" instead.


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## LeilaNami (May 8, 2011)

I had a P. scrofa for a while.  I had bought a mature male when I first started and didn't know better.   They're as docile as a rosie can be.


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## SandDeku (May 9, 2011)

baboonfan said:


> People I consider to be good sources of information would be the well established breeders. Rob C for example is a friendly guy who really knows his business. The "experts" I was talking about are internet tough guys (AKA keyboard commandos) who use forums to get arguments started without ever really having good advice for anyone.
> 
> Cage size is a debate that might never be settled. Rob C for example would strongly disagree with my opinion given his preference for large cages. My experience with large cages is that feeders are too free to roam well outside of a Ts territory.


Agreed. thanks Ill look into that.

---------- Post added at 06:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:28 PM ----------




Bill S said:


> Interesting interpretation, but not one that I would agree with.  "Expert", in my opinion, is someone who knows his/her subject *very* well.  It has nothing to do with whether they are nice humble people or angry curmudgeons.  There are no degrees offered anywhere for tarantula husbandry, so that can't very well be used as a standard either.  (Plus degrees do not always guarantee someone knows their subject - only that they survived an eductional process.)
> 
> If someone is rude but provides valuable information, while another person is sweet and humble and provides useless misinformation, which one would you consider the most useful?  Whose advice would you follow?  I'll place my bets on the person who knows what they are talking about, regardless of how gently he talks about it.
> 
> ...


Knowledge does not excuse rudeness. Sure the person may know more--- but it doesn't open up the other person for learning. It may even discourage people. Which it actually does--- did for my friend. Then when stuff like the hobby becomming illegal(apparently there is an ongoing debate about how people want to pass a new law to ban exotics---including inverts) then where will the person keeping the inverts turn to? 

They pretty much chased off all the people trying to learn, and nobody will listen anymore. You get it? It's what also causes ALOT of people to go to the wrong source for learning. Nobody said anything about "coddling" anyone. But I mean just don't be a jerk about it either. You know? You can state your opinion. But don't be like "ur hur you re-turd you doing itz wrongz u shouldnt be usings a heat pad it burnz the tarantula. derp derp.
Other person: Leaves(still left the heat pad in the tank and failed to listen)"(tried making it funny too--excuse me for that bit ) where the person could be like "Hey it would be wise not to use a heat pad for a tarantula enclosure.

Other person: Why?
You: Because it could burn the tarantula should it decide to dig
Other person: Oh thanks! I'll take it right away" . 

That's an example. You know what I mean? You don't have to coddle the person. Just don't add extra pointless insults when instead of insulting the person you could be helping them.  Then at that point it just becomes trolling if you're just going to insult them or being a prick. 

I thought that rule of "the bigger the better" applies to inverts as well. It's a rule applying to fish, reptiles, amphibians and even small mammals. 
I mean no disrespect by any of the thing said. It's just proper ethics. Especially if the person giving the information is older than 20. It's like--- why act like a childish prick? You're 20-80 years old ---- act like it.

---------- Post added at 06:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:38 PM ----------




LeilaNami said:


> I had a P. scrofa for a while.  I had bought a mature male when I first started and didn't know better.   They're as docile as a rosie can be.


Males? I thought males are short lived. Only living a year or three at most. Correct me if I'm wrong.


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## Bill S (May 9, 2011)

SandDeku said:


> Knowledge does not excuse rudeness. Sure the person may know more--- but it doesn't open up the other person for learning.


I understand your point - but keep in mind that rudeness does not negate knowledge.  "Expert" has nothing to do with manners, it's related to knowledge.  That's the point I was making.  To state that you need to be humble in order to be an expert is wrong.  And although I'd much prefer dealing with someone who has good manners, when I'm looking for expert information I recognize that I can't reject knowledge just because I don't like someone's personality.


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## SandDeku (May 10, 2011)

Bill S said:


> I understand your point - but keep in mind that rudeness does not negate knowledge.  "Expert" has nothing to do with manners, it's related to knowledge.  That's the point I was making.  To state that you need to be humble in order to be an expert is wrong.  And although I'd much prefer dealing with someone who has good manners, when I'm looking for expert information I recognize that I can't reject knowledge just because I don't like someone's personality.


I understand that. but I guess I was taught strongly about having self worth and self respect overly that I don't react well to any intentional rudeness. Even if they say they aren't trying to be. People CAN lie. lol. If anything I rather struggle and look for it myself. I'm quite stubborn myself.

---------- Post added at 02:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:02 AM ----------




Bill S said:


> I understand your point - but keep in mind that rudeness does not negate knowledge.  "Expert" has nothing to do with manners, it's related to knowledge.  That's the point I was making.  To state that you need to be humble in order to be an expert is wrong.  And although I'd much prefer dealing with someone who has good manners, when I'm looking for expert information I recognize that I can't reject knowledge just because I don't like someone's personality.


I understand that. but I guess I was taught strongly about having self worth and self respect overly that I don't react well to any intentional rudeness. Even if they say they aren't trying to be. People CAN lie. lol. If anything I rather struggle and look for it myself. I'm quite stubborn.


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## Bill S (May 10, 2011)

SandDeku said:


> I understand that. but I guess I was taught strongly about having self worth and self respect overly that I don't react well to any intentional rudeness. Even if they say they aren't trying to be. People CAN lie. lol. If anything I rather struggle and look for it myself. I'm quite stubborn.


So if someone gave you good advice but did so in a rude way - you'd reject that advice and go look for it yourself somewhere else?  Why?  What possible advantage is there in that?  Sometimes it's far more productive (and happier) to just shrug and acknowledge that not everyone sees the world the way you do.  Accept the differences and live with them.


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## SandDeku (May 10, 2011)

Bill S said:


> So if someone gave you good advice but did so in a rude way - you'd reject that advice and go look for it yourself somewhere else?  Why?  What possible advantage is there in that?  Sometimes it's far more productive (and happier) to just shrug and acknowledge that not everyone sees the world the way you do.  Accept the differences and live with them.


Because of two things. Just because someones misserable(assuming the rude person is) they don't have to spread it to someone else. I'm pretty sure if someone called you a retard constantly it would make you upset or something. Online or not. It doesn't matter. Even if you say it doesn't affect you. Stuff like that affects everybody. Whether they notice it or not its their own.


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## xhexdx (May 10, 2011)

I'm glad I stopped posting in this thread, so it could get back on topic...

SandDeku - did you find my posts rude and offensive?


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## SandDeku (May 10, 2011)

xhexdx said:


> I'm glad I stopped posting in this thread, so it could get back on topic...
> 
> SandDeku - did you find my posts rude and offensive?


Actually no your posts where fine on your end(atleast towards myself--- I can't speak for anyone else). Just generally speaking. Anyway to get back on topic I guess I'm still looking at many species of T.s out there. Your posts where actually helpful towards me.


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## LeilaNami (May 10, 2011)

SandDeku said:


> Males? I thought males are short lived. Only living a year or three at most. Correct me if I'm wrong.


Yeah I bought a mature male before I knew what to look for.  It came in as a rosehair at the Petco I worked at and I snatched him up.


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## SandDeku (May 10, 2011)

LeilaNami said:


> Yeah I bought a mature male before I knew what to look for.  It came in as a rosehair at the Petco I worked at and I snatched him up.


Nice. I like the dwarfs because some of them have the size and pattern of a dark colored wolf spider. which is my favorite spider.  I have one and it's pretty active. Almost always active. I think it's just wanting to get out. maybe ill upgrade it. I wish I could just keep breeding them constantly so I have a constant thing so I won't have to worry about if they live a season only.

Well I remember that first dwarf t. the one thats brown with red/orangy stripes that are faint. But someone on here recommended. It's palm sized. I like that one.


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## LucasNorth (May 11, 2011)

After some slight De-railment.
I agree with H. incei, i personally have 3 of them communally living and they are pretty calm (fast). but the king is the H. Sp columbia. Both get no larger than 4 inches and although are skittish I've never gotten attitude from any of em.
Beeeee


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## AbraxasComplex (May 11, 2011)

4'' is definitely pushing it, but it is possible if my largest H.incei female lives a several more years she will reach that point. She is already around 3'' and she's only 3 years old.

Dwarf species are great additions to any collection. I like them a little too much.


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## SandDeku (May 11, 2011)

LucasNorth said:


> After some slight De-railment.
> I agree with H. incei, i personally have 3 of them communally living and they are pretty calm (fast). but the king is the H. Sp columbia. Both get no larger than 4 inches and although are skittish I've never gotten attitude from any of em.
> Beeeee


O: how active do you think these guys are? Sp. columbia? got some pics on those too? Community? You can keep T.s in communities?


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## AbraxasComplex (May 11, 2011)

SandDeku said:


> O: how active do you think these guys are? Sp. columbia? got some pics on those too? Community? You can keep T.s in communities?


He got them from me. And yes I keep them in communities. The behavior and habitat differences are not too different between Holothele incei and Holothele sp. Colombia though two major differences remain. According to the gentleman that collected them nearly 15 years ago, their environment is much warmer in comparison to H.incei. H.incei prefer a range of 70-80'F before they start webbing themselves off and trying to cool themselves down in their burrows (in my experience), while the Colombia prefer 75-90'F (according to my supplier and my experiences). Also Colombia will web but not as much as the H.incei. They tend to hide their webs with debris or not extend them beyond the protection of a branch or leaf litter. Granted I notice this behavior more in my heavily planted social tanks rather than in a deli cup for a single female. The H.incei on the other hand will web up nearly everything they can. Collectors of H.incei have noted you can even see H.incei webbing on the side of the road while driving. 

Both species are quite active and can be seen spinning webs often, venturing into other spiderlings burrows, and sharing food at specific age groups (including mothers feeding offspring). Even solitary specimens are active or at the very least wait just on the edge of their burrow entrance so you can see them quite often.



If you do a quick search on communal tanks you will see that several species will do well under specific conditions when placed in a social setting. If supplied with an over abundance of physical barriers, hiding spots, and a steady supply of food in a larger enclosure species that take care of their young for extended periods will also tolerate a social setting with multiple generations. The species I have had success with are:

Holothele incei and Holothele incei "gold"
Holothele sp. Colombia
Heterothele villosella
Heterothele gabonensis
Hemiercus sp. Venezuelan Red
Oligoxystre sp. Atlantic Forest Brazil
Pamphobeteus sp. Chicken Spider

And though not a tarantula Ischnothele caudata makes an incredibly interesting colony.

I have tried with others and either never received eggsacs from viable females or maturing adults started creating conflicts that destabilized the colony. 

It is best to get more experience with tarantulas before diving into a community, but I find that many social environments are quite simple to establish once you understand the basics and have learned from the mistakes others have made in the past.



EDIT: Oh and as a warning, no matter the species or social environment, cannibalism can and will happen sooner or later. Usually it is a female consuming a MM that won't leave her alone after breeding. Other times a spiderling will prey on another if hunger becomes an issue. A fight between two individuals can lead to the death of one, but survival instincts dictate energy was expended so the losing individual is consumed to regain energy stores. It still exists with these social species, but not at a level found with most solitary species. No social environment will lack this intraspecific predation since tarantulas are predatory animals that still have a variety of instincts and natural interactions that we cannot control or prevent.


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## LucasNorth (May 11, 2011)

yah, what he said 
AC probly knows more about this topic than anyone else so i dont see a point in saying else. I guess Sp. colombia would be very difficult to aquire so H. incei is the more logical choice for a dwarf. They are cheap and coolio. Very active webbers from what ive seen my slings do.


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## AbraxasComplex (May 11, 2011)

Thanks for the vote of confidence, but I don't know everything. I'm still learning and can help contribute my knowledge. Focusing on this part of the hobby makes sense to me since it is what interests me the most. I'm still happy to learn when someone comes along with some tips and knowledge that I didn't even consider or realize.


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## SandDeku (May 11, 2011)

AbraxasComplex said:


> He got them from me. And yes I keep them in communities. The behavior and habitat differences are not too different between Holothele incei and Holothele sp. Colombia though two major differences remain. According to the gentleman that collected them nearly 15 years ago, their environment is much warmer in comparison to H.incei. H.incei prefer a range of 70-80'F before they start webbing themselves off and trying to cool themselves down in their burrows (in my experience), while the Colombia prefer 75-90'F (according to my supplier and my experiences). Also Colombia will web but not as much as the H.incei. They tend to hide their webs with debris or not extend them beyond the protection of a branch or leaf litter. Granted I notice this behavior more in my heavily planted social tanks rather than in a deli cup for a single female. The H.incei on the other hand will web up nearly everything they can. Collectors of H.incei have noted you can even see H.incei webbing on the side of the road while driving.
> 
> Both species are quite active and can be seen spinning webs often, venturing into other spiderlings burrows, and sharing food at specific age groups (including mothers feeding offspring). Even solitary specimens are active or at the very least wait just on the edge of their burrow entrance so you can see them quite often.
> 
> ...


Jeez. So If i have something like a 30gallon exo terra terrarium. How many spiders can I put in? I assume they need water dishes too. How much do you feed each spider per week? And how often? do you use calci-vita powders?

Are these arboreal?


Here are what I like so far not in order:
*http://www.dipluridae.de/wiki/images/thumb/Ischnothele_caudata.jpg/250px-Ischnothele_caudata.jpg*

*http://www.tarantulacanada.ca/gallery/images/1095.jpg*
*http://www.tarantulacanada.ca/gallery/images/584.jpg*
*http://i678.photobucket.com/albums/vv145/pato_arg/CS2ndinstar.jpg*

I like the incei's too. Both reg. and gold. I saw the caudata thingy and I read its dangerous?

---------- Post added at 10:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:27 PM ----------




LucasNorth said:


> yah, what he said
> AC probly knows more about this topic than anyone else so i dont see a point in saying else. I guess Sp. colombia would be very difficult to aquire so H. incei is the more logical choice for a dwarf. They are cheap and coolio. Very active webbers from what ive seen my slings do.


Anyone know where I can find the dwarf T's for sale?


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## desertanimal (May 11, 2011)

SandDeku said:


> Anyone know where I can find the dwarf T's for sale?


I'm no expert, but I'm thinking maybe the For Sale subforum would be a good place to look.  :?


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## AbraxasComplex (May 11, 2011)

SandDeku said:


> Jeez. So If i have something like a 30gallon exo terra terrarium. How many spiders can I put in? I assume they need water dishes too. How much do you feed each spider per week? And how often? do you use calci-vita powders?
> 
> Are these arboreal?
> 
> ...


I never use water dishes as they get water from their food and when I mist the tank. Some people recommend not to use water dishes anyway with Dwarf tarantulas. And I usually give 1-4 feeder items per tarantula depending on the colony once a week. As for how many in a 30 gallon, shoot me a message and we can figure out what social species you want to pursue after you gain some more experience with dwarf species.

Never use calci-vita powders as there is no need to dust an exoskeleton as a tarantula does not consume the exoskeleton. There is also debate on whether excess calcium causes molting issues, so it is best to avoid it anyway.

As for Ischnothele caudata where have you read they are highly venomous? Please provide a link if you can. I have never heard this from various keepers and collectors of this species and I will sometimes transfer them by handling them. I know a common misconception is that when anything is considered a funnel-web they believe they have strong venom like the Australian funnel-webs.


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## Bill S (May 12, 2011)

AbraxasComplex said:


> I never use water dishes as they get water from their food and when I mist the tank.


I do use water dishes in my communal dwarf tarantula cages.  But....  You live in Vancouver, I live in the Arizona desert.  Yours can probably get all the moisture they need from their food, down here they need a little help with that.  I do, however, use shallow water dishes (petri dishes), and boost the humidity but spilling more water into the substrate than in the dishes.


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## SandDeku (May 12, 2011)

AbraxasComplex said:


> I never use water dishes as they get water from their food and when I mist the tank. Some people recommend not to use water dishes anyway with Dwarf tarantulas. And I usually give 1-4 feeder items per tarantula depending on the colony once a week. As for how many in a 30 gallon, shoot me a message and we can figure out what social species you want to pursue after you gain some more experience with dwarf species.
> 
> Never use calci-vita powders as there is no need to dust an exoskeleton as a tarantula does not consume the exoskeleton. There is also debate on whether excess calcium causes molting issues, so it is best to avoid it anyway.
> 
> As for Ischnothele caudata where have you read they are highly venomous? Please provide a link if you can. I have never heard this from various keepers and collectors of this species and I will sometimes transfer them by handling them. I know a common misconception is that when anything is considered a funnel-web they believe they have strong venom like the Australian funnel-webs.


then I think someone made an error. I can't find the source of information. Since it was a comment on youtube by the owner of the spider or tarantula. 

Hmm that sounds simple enough. No water and just 1-4 feeder insects per spider. Ill give 2-4 per spider then. 

---------- Post added at 03:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:49 PM ----------




Bill S said:


> I do use water dishes in my communal dwarf tarantula cages.  But....  You live in Vancouver, I live in the Arizona desert.  Yours can probably get all the moisture they need from their food, down here they need a little help with that.  I do, however, use shallow water dishes (petri dishes), and boost the humidity but spilling more water into the substrate than in the dishes.


I think I could try using a "drip" system. The ones sold for anoles. That would be a good idea? Cause don't spiders and tarantulas drink the water from leaves and dew?


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## PhobeToPhile (May 12, 2011)

They will also drink water from a bowl, and bowls for Ts are incredibly easy to find/improvise. No need for anything costly.


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## AbraxasComplex (May 12, 2011)

Bill S said:


> I do use water dishes in my communal dwarf tarantula cages.  But....  You live in Vancouver, I live in the Arizona desert.  Yours can probably get all the moisture they need from their food, down here they need a little help with that.  I do, however, use shallow water dishes (petri dishes), and boost the humidity but spilling more water into the substrate than in the dishes.



When I lived in Calgary, though not as dry, it was still more dry than here. I also did the same technique of spilling water into the substrate, but still had no need for a water dish. I also had a glass top with little ventilation, so this kept it from drying out too quickly.

The best suggestion then depending on where someone is located and if they use a low ventilation glass top or a high ventilation screen lid is to supply water accordingly in the most efficient means. With dwarf species a water dish can be considered treacherous by some unless it is incredibly shallow (both the dish and water level) like the petri dishes you use. I actually never considered petri dishes in the past as I would use bottle caps from milk jugs or sports drinks. What an eyesore those were, but great idea on the petri dishes.


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## SandDeku (May 12, 2011)

AbraxasComplex said:


> When I lived in Calgary, though not as dry, it was still more dry than here. I also did the same technique of spilling water into the substrate, but still had no need for a water dish. I also had a glass top with little ventilation, so this kept it from drying out too quickly.
> 
> The best suggestion then depending on where someone is located and if they use a low ventilation glass top or a high ventilation screen lid is to supply water accordingly in the most efficient means. With dwarf species a water dish can be considered treacherous by some unless it is incredibly shallow (both the dish and water level) like the petri dishes you use. I actually never considered petri dishes in the past as I would use bottle caps from milk jugs or sports drinks. What an eyesore those were, but great idea on the petri dishes.


Would using those "liquid" gels made for cricket water work?


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## Bumblingbear (May 13, 2011)

I just mist every day.

I don't like water dishes.  Too many drowned crickets and mold scares.


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## AbraxasComplex (May 13, 2011)

SandDeku said:


> Would using those "liquid" gels made for cricket water work?


Nope. Tarantulas cannot acquire moisture from them. The best analogy is someone taking a straw and trying to suck the water out of jello. It's basically the same anatomically for a tarantula if they try to "consume" cricket gel.


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## SandDeku (May 13, 2011)

AbraxasComplex said:


> Nope. Tarantulas cannot acquire moisture from them. The best analogy is someone taking a straw and trying to suck the water out of jello. It's basically the same anatomically for a tarantula if they try to "consume" cricket gel.


So will that "drip" system be okay? since its meant for anoles and its to simulate morning dew or something. It costs like 5-10bucks so idrc.


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## AbraxasComplex (May 13, 2011)

SandDeku said:


> So will that "drip" system be okay? since its meant for anoles and its to simulate morning dew or something. It costs like 5-10bucks so idrc.


Drip systems tend to soak areas. Best solution is to cover part of a screen top with glass or clear plastic. You leave enough open to allow for some ventilation and just mist periodically when the substrate starts to dry out. I always keep my substrate moist, but not wet with this species.


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## baboonfan (May 13, 2011)

Bill S said:


> Interesting interpretation, but not one that I would agree with.  "Expert", in my opinion, is someone who knows his/her subject *very* well.  It has nothing to do with whether they are nice humble people or angry curmudgeons.  There are no degrees offered anywhere for tarantula husbandry, so that can't very well be used as a standard either.  (Plus degrees do not always guarantee someone knows their subject - only that they survived an eductional process.)
> 
> If someone is rude but provides valuable information, while another person is sweet and humble and provides useless misinformation, which one would you consider the most useful?  Whose advice would you follow?  I'll place my bets on the person who knows what they are talking about, regardless of how gently he talks about it.
> 
> ...


For future reference I am a combat veteran, I do not need to be coddled. Computers and internet have proven to be valuable but I cant help but notice that too many people grow 30 feet tall and bulk up to legendary proportions when communicating over the internet. Anyone is free to disagree with me, but harcore rambo style keyboard commandos who once punked Paul Bunyon in prison will get no respect from me. When feeling tough turn the computer off and enlist, we have two wars going on. When communicating on the computer it is best to pretend that the other person is about two feet away.

Effective hunting area is fine. My point was simple, I dont use overly large cages anymore because of issues I had with them in the past.

---------- Post added at 10:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:17 PM ----------




Bumblingbear said:


> I just mist every day.
> 
> I don't like water dishes.  Too many drowned crickets and mold scares.


I use a small water dish but also mist. Alot of good advice was posted on this topic. Humidity can be established by limiting ventilation and using a spray bottle.

---------- Post added at 10:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:21 PM ----------




SandDeku said:


> then I think someone made an error. I can't find the source of information. Since it was a comment on youtube by the owner of the spider or tarantula.
> 
> Hmm that sounds simple enough. No water and just 1-4 feeder insects per spider. Ill give 2-4 per spider then.
> 
> ...


Thats a good idea.


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## Spidershane1 (May 13, 2011)

LoL @ punking Paul Bunyon in prison. 
But for reals, I actually did that.


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## SandDeku (May 14, 2011)

AbraxasComplex said:


> Drip systems tend to soak areas. Best solution is to cover part of a screen top with glass or clear plastic. You leave enough open to allow for some ventilation and just mist periodically when the substrate starts to dry out. I always keep my substrate moist, but not wet with this species.


Sounds good and simple enough. Thanks for the help man!

---------- Post added at 03:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:42 AM ----------




Spidershane1 said:


> LoL @ punking Paul Bunyon in prison.
> But for reals, I actually did that.


The whole argument about punking or whatever sorta confused me :S so i'ma try to stay out of that one. lol.:barf:


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## Bill S (May 14, 2011)

baboonfan said:


> For future reference I am a combat veteran, I do not need to be coddled.


I've been around combat veterans my whole life.  They are as likely to be in need of coddling as any other group.  So.... let's get back to discussing tarantulas.


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## baboonfan (May 14, 2011)

Bill S said:


> I've been around combat veterans my whole life.  They are as likely to be in need of coddling as any other group.  So.... let's get back to discussing tarantulas.


What? We dont need it. I agree that Ts should dominate the conversation though. How about we just agree that these boards should be used for positive advice and discussion while pretending the people we are speaking to are two feet away? I think it sounds fair.

---------- Post added at 01:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:23 PM ----------




SandDeku said:


> Would using those "liquid" gels made for cricket water work?


I dont think so, I never trusted that sort of product. I think your drip system idea could work though.

The only problem with a drip system would be trying to avoid over soaking the area. A water dish right under the drip could work but only if the drip could be slowed to the point of never overfilling the water dish. You might even be able to use it on several cages at once.

One idea I had that I have yet to attempt is to creat a water dish that refills itself. They sell them at pet stores (usually for dogs) but smaller ones can be bought. To save money and work within the realistic space I wonder if the little shipping containers the TS come in could be used in the same way. The shipping container could be fitted to a small dish with a hole drilled in the bottom. The dish would refill itself and the shipping container would only require occasional refills. An airline attached to a syringe could be used to refill the containers so the container would never be left open in the cage. I am of course thinking of small cages but larger systems could be made.


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## SandDeku (May 14, 2011)

baboonfan said:


> What? We dont need it. I agree that Ts should dominate the conversation though. How about we just agree that these boards should be used for positive advice and discussion while pretending the people we are speaking to are two feet away? I think it sounds fair.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 01:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:23 PM ----------
> 
> ...


You maybe on to something. But it may apply better to other species of animals. lol. As for those that are used for dogs. I don't really think its good to leave them there. Doesn't let you assert dominance and such.


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## AbraxasComplex (May 14, 2011)

They have self refilling water dishes for reptiles. I believe Exo Terra makes them. They look like beige termite mounds.


Found the link:

http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products/water_well.php


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## Bill S (May 14, 2011)

baboonfan said:


> One idea I had that I have yet to attempt is to creat a water dish that refills itself. They sell them at pet stores (usually for dogs) but smaller ones can be bought.


One problem that comes to mind is that frequently water dishes go empty due to webbing or substrate being pushed into the dish by the tarantula, causing the water to wick out into the substrate.  If you have a water dish that automatically refills itself when this happens you run the risk of flooding the cage - the dish would contiue to empty itself as fast as your device refills it.


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## baboonfan (May 14, 2011)

SandDeku said:


> You maybe on to something. But it may apply better to other species of animals. lol. As for those that are used for dogs. I don't really think its good to leave them there. Doesn't let you assert dominance and such.


Mine arent communal, but I dont see a problem with communal environments. My idea stems from being away from home alot as a truck driver. I can feed them enough but water becomes an issue. A breeder friend is taking care of my Ts right now due to increased hours brought on by the tornados in Alabama.


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## SandDeku (May 15, 2011)

baboonfan said:


> Mine arent communal, but I dont see a problem with communal environments. My idea stems from being away from home alot as a truck driver. I can feed them enough but water becomes an issue. A breeder friend is taking care of my Ts right now due to increased hours brought on by the tornados in Alabama.


trucker? Always wondered what the life of a trucker is like. But never thought of being one just because I couldn't stand the fact being away from my toads or pets.


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## baboonfan (May 15, 2011)

SandDeku said:


> trucker? Always wondered what the life of a trucker is like. But never thought of being one just because I couldn't stand the fact being away from my toads or pets.


The pay isnt bad but being on the road all the time takes its toll. The idea is to gain as much experience as possible so local companies will hire us. Then we get to be home every day to raise our Ts. Im hoping for a coca cola position.

I miss my Ts. My Trinidad Chevrons were growing and Ill miss out for about 4 months.


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## SandDeku (May 16, 2011)

baboonfan said:


> The pay isnt bad but being on the road all the time takes its toll. The idea is to gain as much experience as possible so local companies will hire us. Then we get to be home every day to raise our Ts. Im hoping for a coca cola position.
> 
> I miss my Ts. My Trinidad Chevrons were growing and Ill miss out for about 4 months.


So you get to be home every day?  That'd be a nice job. lol. My uncle had a trucker job-- don't really talk to him much. But I did gather from what he said it can be exhausting and lonesome. He ended up getting a small pooch. lol. Said it helped him keep sane because of the fact that just driving constantly alone was a bit too much for him. : x He did get to eat junk food though. lol.


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