# You've got mold!



## ThrillKill (Feb 8, 2008)

So woke up this morning, turned on the infrared light, and noticed a nice little coating of white mold across the top of the soil.

What do I need to do, and how do I stop this from happening?


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## thedude (Feb 8, 2008)

i just scoop out the mold, theres nothing more you can really do


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## quiz (Feb 8, 2008)

ThrillKill said:


> So woke up this morning, turned on the infrared light, and noticed a nice little coating of white mold across the top of the soil.
> 
> What do I need to do, and how do I stop this from happening?


ventilation bro


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## ThrillKill (Feb 8, 2008)

Thats the thing though, I have plenty of ventilation


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## quiz (Feb 8, 2008)

ThrillKill said:


> Thats the thing though, I have plenty of ventilation


not enough ventilation.  Is this for your emp?


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## ThrillKill (Feb 8, 2008)

Yea it is. 
The top of the terrarium is completely open, no blockage at all (except the mesh of course)


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## tyrant963 (Feb 8, 2008)

Isnt their a sp. of isopods that eat mold and the the things that cause it?


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## Mr. Quick (Feb 9, 2008)

tyrant963 said:


> Isnt their a sp. of isopods that eat mold and the the things that cause it?


Yes. Pill bugs a.k.a Rollie Pollies.


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## ThrillKill (Feb 10, 2008)

where can i find pillbugs during the winter though?!?


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## Rafe (Apr 21, 2008)

I have this problem also. I just noticed today that the log that my scorpions hide under was covered by a very small layer of white/green mold. It seriously appeared over night! 

I have thrown away the log and im off to the store to get another... 

But my reason for posting, is that I think my male scorpion(Jimmy) has mold on his arms. From what I can tell, my female(Jamie) is clean. What can I do about it? Is this mold harmful for them? Should I take Jimmy out of the terrarium and place him into a “dryer / less humid” habitat until the mold goes away?

I just hope that he will be ok.


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## Thaedion (Apr 21, 2008)

Rafe said:


> ...I have thrown away the log and im off to the store to get another...
> 
> ...I think my male scorpion(Jimmy) has mold on his arms. From what I can tell, my female(Jamie) is clean. What can I do about it? Is this mold harmful for them? Should I take Jimmy out of the terrarium and place him into a “dryer / less humid” habitat until the mold goes away?
> 
> I just hope that he will be ok.


1st - just boil the log don't need to pitch it
2nd- the mold on the arm may be scorp poo
3rd- if it is mold or poo, just pick him up and clean it with a damp cotton swab (Q-tip)
4th- no dryer environment for mold you'll stress it unnecessarily


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## tjmontario (Apr 21, 2008)

I've had that problem once before, and it was before I put tin foil on the lid so there was plenty of ventilation so that's not the problem.

What I did was take my scorpion and the stones and water dish out and I gave the subtrate a good tossing.  Airates the subtrate, the mould hasn't come back since.  If you don't do this once in a while the subtrate will eventually go stagnant, and mould will grow.


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## Athlon2k2 (Apr 22, 2008)

Its wierd but I have to identical setups, except one has a log in it and that was the only one to develop mold. I think there is a little more behind it than ventilation. My emps cage has only limited ventilation to keep circulation but hold humidity and I have never had a mold issue. I think maybe the log wasn't properly sterilized before I bought it and the moisture caused molt to regrow.


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## jmb (Apr 22, 2008)

*Just be glad you've got an opportunistic fungus...*

...And not one which is entomogenous/entomopathogenic -- at least, those are the odds.  That does not mean that you should let it go unchecked, though, as even opportunistics can be hazardous to your scorpion's health -- I've got a handful of specimens at present which prove that.



ThrillKill said:


> So woke up this morning, turned on the infrared light, and noticed a nice little coating of white mold across the top of the soil.
> 
> What do I need to do, and how do I stop this from happening?


If you have the luxury of replicating the enclosure w/duplicate (if you have a spare tank or whatnot free), then I'd duplicate the enclosure desired, transfer the scorp into a safe, escape-proof and STERILE container for a bit and (for lack of anything better) -- presuming you're talking about a high-humidity scorp -- mist them down w/water to (ideally) remove as many spores as possible from the scorpion.  If it's a dark scorp (Pandinus, Heterometrus), then a wipe-down w/a dilute methylene blue solution is (relatively) safe, and you don't get any into the lungs (and it'll act as a fungistatic at the very least).

Then place them into the new tank, and STERILIZE the rest.  And I mean *STERILIZE*.

If you don't have the luxury of making a dupe-home, then remove the scorp from the enclosure, do as above, then:

-make a dilute (2-3%) solution of bleach (sodium hypochlorite) by mixing up 1 part bleach, two parts water -- and use pure bleach w/no additives;
-remove all the items you wish to keep from the tank;
-discard ALL substrate in the tank;
-wipe down and partially fill the tank w/the dilute mixture of bleach and then pitch in the fixtures (bark, wood, etc) from the "infected" tank;

Let those soak for at least 8-10 minutes or so (30 mins is better, but will noticeably bleach wood, etc), then pour the solution down the drain and _very carefully_ rinse the entire tank w/water until there is NO odor of bleach (rinse/repeat).  Do the same with the items you soaked in it as well prior to replacing them in the new tank.

Make new substrate and proceed as normal.

If that sounds extreme, well, it's because it *is*.  Then again, once fungus gets even the smallest foothold, getting rid of it is VERY hard.  The pain of discipline weighs ounces; that of regret, tons.  And remember, there is *NO* such thing as "mostly sterile".  Period.

As for myself, I've already done some work towards formulating my own substrate using bedabeast/ecoearth/whatever which is nontoxic to inverts (or humans) but which renders the substrate a bit more of a "non-food-item" for fungi and the like.

Oh - and for those who might say that you can use a microwave in the place of an autoclave, that is a resounding 'No'.  Check the literature if interested, but, sans the appropriate pyrex steaming apparatus (or similar) and using the *steam* generated thereby, and doing it for a VERY long period of time, microwaves simply cannot sterilize things, at least when it comes to spores (and even some microbes).  If you've got a pressure-cooker, that's best, as you can truly autoclave and thus sterilize whatever you happen to have.

[n.b.:  The use of autoclaves in cleaning live scorpions is not recommended.]

HTH,


~JMB


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## kupo969 (Apr 22, 2008)

You can get mold just from drenching the substrate. Maybe you made it into mud?


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## tjmontario (Apr 22, 2008)

I wouldn't recommend using bleach on anything related to pets.  Bleach is toxic, and it is very hard to remove all of the residue.

A better option is a half plain vinegar/water solution.  Vinegar is a a mild acid, it will kill the crap out of any mold, and it is non toxic, unlike bleach.

OR half baking soda/water solution works well too as it is an extreme base and also kills the crap out of mold, and is also non toxic.


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## vvx (Apr 22, 2008)

Maybe try new substrate. I had a big bag of peat moss that all started molding at right around the same time from when I got it. Probably was just an "infected" batch of peat, so I've been swapping substrate out.


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## jmb (Apr 23, 2008)

*Ordinarily, I err on the side of caution, as well...*

*sigh*

I ordinarily would NOT have followed this up, but, considering the misinformative nature, I feel obligated to do so 



tjmontario said:


> I wouldn't recommend using bleach on anything related to pets.  Bleach is toxic


True, essentially:  pure, 100% Sodium hypochlorite isn't precisely something I'd recommend snorting for kicks.

Then again, O2 is toxic, as are many things which we don't give a lot of thought to.  It all really depends upon proportion.

Worth noting, is that even with commercial 10-12% (roughly 2X household bleach) strength, "bacterial blotch" is still an issue at some farms; this is due to all of the oxidative power -- which is, in actuality, not that much -- being expended, leaving behind a large volume of entirely non-toxic H2O (which is fine for microbes, and hence the name as given above).

The concentration I'm recommending is TWO (2) percent:  that's about the lowest you can have it and still expect germicidal/microbial action at.  3%-6% is better, but I generally choose to err on the side of caution (while choosing efficacy as well).



> and it is very hard to remove all of the residue.


That's not been my experience at all.  Rinse a few times, dry, and (if I'm going to be particularly anal-retentive, rinse/repeat for a third, but that's rare).  



> A better option is a half plain vinegar/water solution.  Vinegar is a a mild acid


Well, vinegar *contains* acid, yes:  Acetic Acid.  And while I've no time to get into that whole Arrhenius/Bronsted-Lowry/Lewis definition of "acids" and "bases", I will say that, while HCL & HNO3 are right up there with those you don't want to gargle with, try playing with some Glacial acetic acid.  After treatment, ponder burns; discuss.  



> it will kill the crap out of any mold, and it is non toxic, unlike bleach.


Really?  You are referring, I would only charitably assume, to Glacial acetic acid (high-molar-stuff) -- well, yes, that *would* "kill the crap" out of any mold, no less than high-molar HNO3 would -- along with destroying most anything/everything else it touched.  Unlike fuming Nitric Acid, Glacial Acetic acid doesn't etch borosilicate glass over time, though, so perhaps that analogy is a bit over the top...But the point remains.

At the few percent concentration Acetic acid is found in vinegar, however, it is not, to the extent of my knowledge, proven to be particularly sporicidal or fungicidal -- and if it is, the spectrum would be narrow indeed (e.g., precise strains of fungi, particular yeasts & the like).

I am familiar with its use as a very, _very_ _mild_ preservative (e.g., in fruit fly cultures, for example, although again, the parabens are far more useful in this regard, such as Tegosept), although as to how *fungistatic* it is, well...Not enough to be a sufficient sterlizer, that's reasonably certain.  That's the difference between a _fungistatic_ and a _fungicide_.



> OR half baking soda/water solution works well too as it is an extreme base and also kills the crap out of mold, and is also non toxic.


Wow.  While quite familiar with Sodium bicarbonate, I must confess I was previously unaware of it possessing such potent fungicidal/bactericidal properties.  Such being the case, I wonder why it hasn't crowded out Quaternary Ammonium compounds (e.g., Benzalkonium Chloride and more modern refinements of the same), or DDU et al as an all-around-sterilizing compound for kitchen and laboratory use.  

Please feel free to correct any & all errors I may have made in the above, along with the appropriate chemical references to back up the points made.  

I apologize if I come off as curt, however, to the best of my knowledge, your recommendations above are, at best, entirely ineffectual, and, at worst, possibly detrimental (as the fumes from vinegar tend to linger in larger and actually more toxic (to inverts) amounts than the 2% Bleach solution recommended above, which is laboratory-practice standard (if a bit on the low side).

HTH,


~JMB


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## tjmontario (Apr 23, 2008)

jmb said:


> *sigh*
> 
> I ordinarily would NOT have followed this up, but, considering the misinformative nature, I feel obligated to do so
> 
> ...



It's still a harmful chemical.  I don't care if it's .2% or 22%.

And what scientific tests have you performed to verify this claim?(That all the residue is gone) 

Maybe I was a bit naive to think vinegar would kill "any mold" but I am fairly certain it would destroy all but the most stubborn variants.  Bacteria and the like don't do too well when you spray acid on them...

Yes, yes it is enough to be an effective sterilizer.  As I said above, bacteria does not do too well when you spray an acid on it.  Here is a quote from http://www.vinegartips.com/cleaning/
_
"White distilled vinegar is a popular household cleanser, effective for killing most mold, bacteria, and germs, due to its level of  acidity. Cleaning with white distilled vinegar is a smart way to avoid using harsh chemicals. You’ll also be glad to know that it is environmentally friendly and very economical. "_

Let me guess, you have never cleaned anything in your life with a vinegar/water mixture?  So you have no hands on experience to substantiate your claims? And you have numerous chemical cleaners under your sink?...

quote from http://www.care2.com/greenliving/three-ways-to-kill-mold-naturally.html

_"Vinegar Spray
Straight vinegar reportedly kills 82 percent of mold. Pour
some white distilled vinegar straight into a spray bottle,
spray on the moldy area, and let set without rinsing if you
can put up with the smell. It will dissipate in a few hours."
_
quote from http://www.care2.com/greenliving/vinegar-kills-bacteria-mold-germs.html

_"Vinegar is a mainstay of the old folk recipes for cleaning, and with good reason. The vim of the vinegar is that it kills bacteria, mold and germs.

Heinz company spokesperson Michael Mullen references numerous studies to show that a straight 5 percent solution of vinegar—thekind you can buy in the supermarket—kills 99 percent of bacteria, 82 percent of mold, and 80 percent of germs (viruses). He noted that Heinz can’t claim on their packaging that vinegar is a disinfectant since the company has not registered it as a pesticide with the Environmental Protection Agency. However, it seems to be common knowledge in the industry that vinegar is powerfully antibacterial. Even the CBS news show “48 Hours” had a special years ago with Heloise reporting on tests from The Good Housekeeping Institute that showed this. "
_

A lot of people do use baking soda to clean their kitchens/bathrooms etc.  You know, the kind of people that don't want chemical residue in their homes?  Although I admit it may not be quite as good at killing mold as vinegar.

But hey, if you use chemical cleaners in your home, that speaks for itself.


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