# Python bites kid, what do you think of this?



## Kathy (Nov 5, 2010)

Just curious, do you think they should put the snake down?  Do you think the parents should sue?  I don't think the snake should be put down, the kid doesn't look traumatized and didn't even need stitches, but then I'm not a parent.  Just wondering what you all thought.

http://www.fox13now.com/news/local/kstu-python-attacks-boy,0,1378815.story


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## skippy (Nov 6, 2010)

do you even need to ask? i doubt anyone here would be clamoring for the snakes head.

i would want the medical expenses paid for and perhaps an apology depending on the incident... otherwise, no harm done really.

(probably not what _will_ happen, just what i think _should_ happen)


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## H. laoticus (Nov 6, 2010)

It definitely shouldn't be put down.  What do they expect, the snake to give people hugs?  This reminds me of that recent incident with the mother bear and her cubs.  Some people were camping, got attacked and I believe one man died.  They decided to hunt the mother down to kill her AND the cubs because the cubs "saw" the mother and would learn from her.  I recall the woman saying something along the lines of: "I have to believe the bear wasn't acting normally."  What ridiculousness.  It was a very tragic event, but it's sad that the bears have to pay the price for people who decide to sleep in bear territory.  Maybe it's the care bears or fluffy teddy bears, but people really need to wake up and realize that bears aren't cuddly and they don't give heart warming hugs.


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## Kathy (Nov 6, 2010)

H. Laoticus - Yeah, I agree.  I remember that bear story, I cried.  That is when I sometimes say I hate humans.   But the mother of the kid now wants the snake destroyed and I know how much they love that snake.  This story is personal to me.


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## blacktara (Nov 6, 2010)

The sad thing is that the kid's dad has hired an attorney

No harm no foul

And besides, you dont wanna risk anything happening, then dont take part in handling the snake

No the snake shouldnt be put down


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## starlight_kitsune (Nov 6, 2010)

Of course they shouldn't put down the snake.

Although perhaps this isn't the best site to get an unbiased opinion on the matter.


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## Earthworm Soul (Nov 6, 2010)

blacktara said:


> The sad thing is that the kid's dad has hired an attorney
> 
> No harm no foul
> 
> ...


It pains me to agree with Blacktara, but this is pure ridiculousness.


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## Terry D (Nov 6, 2010)

:wall::wall::wall::wall:


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## pouchedrat (Nov 6, 2010)

of course not, snake shouldnt' be put down, and I'm speaking as a parent of two small kids.  I've never understood that logic anyway, to immediately destroy something that bites, but then again I've been bitten by tons of weird creatures in my life and learn each time, nothing serious.  If you're going to be around the animal and handle it and such, know the risks ahead of time.  There's always that 1% chance something might happen that wasn't stopped fast enough, or couldn't be prevented.  

But you know, most of us are snake or exotic owners on these boards


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## KoffinKat138 (Nov 6, 2010)

The Snake shouldnt be put down. For all we know, the kid could have been petting a dog or somthing and the snake could have picked up the scent and acted on a natural feeding response. If anything it should atleast be retired, that way if somthing ever else went down they would have a cause to put it to sleep.


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## the toe cutter (Nov 6, 2010)

The snake should definately not be put down, but the handlers should have been taking more precautions. I show off my herps and inverts often, but never would I let a child anywhere near the "pointy" end of any of them, mainly because of trauma and stress to the animal. Scales n Tails is Mark M. Lucas' shop and they are fantastic professionals and have been in the Herp community for a VERY long time, and I know they will bounce back pretty quick from that incident. Just hope they use more caution next time!


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## Kathy (Nov 6, 2010)

the toe cutter said:


> The snake should definately not be put down, but the handlers should have been taking more precautions. I show off my herps and inverts often, but never would I let a child anywhere near the "pointy" end of any of them, mainly because of trauma and stress to the animal. Scales n Tails is Mark M. Lucas' shop and they are fantastic professionals and have been in the Herp community for a VERY long time, and I know they will bounce back pretty quick from that incident. Just hope they use more caution next time!


Actually that one is in Florida with a similar name - this one is in Utah and owned by my niece and her husband.


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## the toe cutter (Nov 6, 2010)

Ah I see. oops my mistake!


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## pitbulllady (Nov 6, 2010)

This is one of the nastier side effects of what I've termed the "Disneyfication" of animals-giving all animals humans traits, especially the ability to judge THEIR actions by OUR moral/ethical standards.  It's also an inevitable side-effect of the Animal Rights movement.  _Accountability_ is an inseparable aspect of having _rights_; if you do something that is deemed bad or wrong by general consensus, you should be held accountable for your actions, therefore if we are to believe that animals have "rights", it follows logically that they should also be held accountable for their behavior.

Of course _*I*_ do not believe that, but many people, even those who would not ordinarily consider themselves AR supporters, have been so brainwashed by a combination of AR rhetoric and lack of personal experience with animals due to our increasingly urbanized society, DO believe it.  I was raised, along with many rural folk here in the Southern US, to believe that "if it has a mouth, it can bite, and IF you get bitten, first question what YOU did wrong".  Basically, animal bites, kicks, scratches, etc., were seen as an inevitable occurance if you chose to live around animals and put yourself in close proximity to them, and for the most part, were seen as evidence that YOU messed up and did something you shouldn't have done, and got bitten as a result.  Most people willingly accepted that animals pretty much were instinct-driven, and were not capable of making decisions or choices regarding their own behavior based on any sense of moral right or wrong, and that only humans could be held accountable for things that happened to themselves.  If you don't want to take a chance of your kid being bitten by a snake, keep it a respectable distance from the snake.  Don't want your kid getting kicked in the head by a horse, make sure he doesn't walk behind the horse.  While some of the responsibility here falls on the owners of the snake for not controlling it, allowing its head to be free enough to bite, the parents are also responsible.  The snake was simply responding to a stimulus and should not in way be held responsible for just being an animal.

pitbulllady


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## Dyn (Nov 6, 2010)

The snake no... The "handlers" yes.

I've done reptile shows before that had kids next to a large burmese python. I NEVER let go of the snakes head when the kids are that close. There is really no excuse for the snake able to bite a kid 2 feet from it. The handlers should have had better control over the situation. They say that they will do it from now but it should have been done the whole time.


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## whitewolf (Nov 6, 2010)

100% agree with Pitbulllady and everyone else. Don't allow your kid to participate if you don't want them to get bit. If you or you allow someone like your child to touch an animal expect that for whatever reason the animal could bite. Every animal has the potential to bite.


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## rustym3talh3ad (Nov 6, 2010)

Dyn said:


> The snake no... The "handlers" yes.
> 
> I've done reptile shows before that had kids next to a large burmese python. I NEVER let go of the snakes head when the kids are that close. There is really no excuse for the snake able to bite a kid 2 feet from it. The handlers should have had better control over the situation. They say that they will do it from now but it should have been done the whole time.


I would have to slightly disagree. This company that puts on these shows for kids are most likely highly trained professionals or at least know what is going on and should be allowed to do said shows. This is a case by case issue...this wasn't some idiot letting kids play with his python in a backyard, these were intelligent and ethically responsible people trying to show kids a good time. There's a risk with every animal when being in a group of people (young or old) from the nicest dog to the deadliest of reptiles. This had to have been as stated a response to something. Whether the animal felt threatened or hurt or smelled something that was mistakenly seen as food. I feel no one is to blame for this, not the kid, not the keepers and DEFINITELY not the snake.


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## Dyn (Nov 7, 2010)

rustym3talh3ad said:


> I would have to slightly disagree. This company that puts on these shows for kids are most likely highly trained professionals or at least know what is going on and should be allowed to do said shows. This is a case by case issue...this wasn't some idiot letting kids play with his python in a backyard, these were intelligent and ethically responsible people trying to show kids a good time. There's a risk with every animal when being in a group of people (young or old) from the nicest dog to the deadliest of reptiles. This had to have been as stated a response to something. Whether the animal felt threatened or hurt or smelled something that was mistakenly seen as food. I feel no one is to blame for this, not the kid, not the keepers and DEFINITELY not the snake.


This is from the article "From now on the handler's not only going to be near the head, he's going to be the only one holding the head. She [the python] still had some reach distance. We're going to have the kids hold from the middle back," says Richens.

This tells me two things. 
1.  That the handlers possibly werent by the head
2.  They were letting children hold the head of the snake. Those are two things you should never let happen when "displaying" a large python. 

I'd never let anyone pet or hold the head of the snake. There is no telling what they may have on their hands or what kind of scents they could be carrying. He could have just been playing with a pet mouse or rat and now the snake links the smell with food. This accident is 100% at fault of the handlers at the show. If they had been highly trained professionals they wouldnt have let these two things happen.


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## bobusboy (Nov 7, 2010)

oh fox news


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## AprilH (Nov 7, 2010)

I have to agree that the handlers were at fault here. When I do hands-on events for our herp society, one of the main rules that _must_ be followed is that we maintain control of the head at all times. We cannot allow people to hold the animal, or to approach the head at all. That all may sound overly cautious, but when dealing with the general public, it's not.


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## Kathy (Nov 7, 2010)

I have to agree that the kids should have been nowhere near the head.  I think this is going to be a hard, and costly, lesson for them to learn.  My issue is whether they should be sued since the kid is not traumatized and did not receive stitches.  The news totally blew out of proportion what happened, as always to make things sound so dramatic.  Pay the medical bills sure, but why go after the snake and their business.  But then again I am biased.


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## dtknow (Nov 7, 2010)

I would say the handlers are mostly to blame. Yes, their is a risk-but it should be basically nill when their are kids involved of such a large snake biting a kid. Who would even want to touch it if they were told otherwise?(would you if you were a kid hold a burmese if you were told it might bite?) The parents had their faith in the handlers judgment that the kids actions were very low risk. Truth to be told the handlers fell into a trap that is all to easy to fall into of trusting the animal a bit too much.(she's a doll she'd never hurt a fly)  The head of the snake should have been under control of the handler.

I do like that they will be bringing her in for an exam...perhaps the snake has some kind of condition which caused it to experience sudden pain whilst it was being handled(tumor etc.) This was most likely defensive as a feeding response would not have involved multiple bite.

I do hope they don't sue.


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## VickyChaiTea (Nov 7, 2010)

pitbulllady said:


> This is one of the nastier side effects of what I've termed the "Disneyfication" of animals-giving all animals humans traits, especially the ability to judge THEIR actions by OUR moral/ethical standards.  It's also an inevitable side-effect of the Animal Rights movement.  _Accountability_ is an inseparable aspect of having _rights_; if you do something that is deemed bad or wrong by general consensus, you should be held accountable for your actions, therefore if we are to believe that animals have "rights", it follows logically that they should also be held accountable for their behavior.
> 
> Of course _*I*_ do not believe that, but many people, even those who would not ordinarily consider themselves AR supporters, have been so brainwashed by a combination of AR rhetoric and lack of personal experience with animals due to our increasingly urbanized society, DO believe it.  I was raised, along with many rural folk here in the Southern US, to believe that "if it has a mouth, it can bite, and IF you get bitten, first question what YOU did wrong".  Basically, animal bites, kicks, scratches, etc., were seen as an inevitable occurance if you chose to live around animals and put yourself in close proximity to them, and for the most part, were seen as evidence that YOU messed up and did something you shouldn't have done, and got bitten as a result.  Most people willingly accepted that animals pretty much were instinct-driven, and were not capable of making decisions or choices regarding their own behavior based on any sense of moral right or wrong, and that only humans could be held accountable for things that happened to themselves.  If you don't want to take a chance of your kid being bitten by a snake, keep it a respectable distance from the snake.  Don't want your kid getting kicked in the head by a horse, make sure he doesn't walk behind the horse.  While some of the responsibility here falls on the owners of the snake for not controlling it, allowing its head to be free enough to bite, the parents are also responsible.  The snake was simply responding to a stimulus and should not in way be held responsible for just being an animal.
> 
> pitbulllady


Quoted for truth! Man, I could not have said it better myself. 

On a slightly unrelated note, this is ANOTHER example of a very overweight large snake. Recently I've been seeing so many of them. It stems from being fed too much and not being able to exercise because they aren't kept in large enough enclosures or given enough time to roam. It's all too common.


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## Dyn (Nov 7, 2010)

I thought that snake did look alittle fat as well


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## Kathy (Nov 7, 2010)

I can tell you Shane takes excellent care of, and has a lot of pride in, all of the creatures in his care.  Believe me, they roam~~!!!!


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## Musicwolf (Nov 7, 2010)

Definitely the handler's fault, but at the same time - obviously an honest mistake. In a perfect world, they pay for all the medical bills, the kid is fine with minor treatment, and everyone learns a lesson about "wild" animals. Same way I'd feel if it was my own child - - but they all know the potential for ANY animal to bite.

That being said - - I sure hope they don't put the snake down - - that would be tragic.


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## Bazzgazm (Nov 13, 2010)

I can totally forsee this taking the company down. Especially with all the noise surrounding large constrictors...

sucks, but this happens.. hope they have good insurance...

I am a firm believer in if you don't want to get hurt, don't take risks...

i hate seeing people cash in when stuff goes wrong after they chose to do it.
I know the consequences every time i eat taco bell, i keep doing it.. i do not sue them for my bowel irritations... lol

good luck again to the owners and the snake cannot and should not be punished.. sort of like my dog who pooped all over the floor.. we left her in here from 10am till 12pm. what did we expect..... 
she is a dog.


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## Tindalos (Nov 13, 2010)

i saw this on a few news stations, as i am from salt lake city.
from what i recall (of course i could be wrong), there was only one handler with the snake at that time.


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## Ookamii (Nov 14, 2010)

Well when i was in 5th grade, a man brought his 12 foot Burm to the school for "carrier day" he had it by the head the entire time and told all of us "it can bite you so do not pet it if you do not want to and do not get any higher then its midsection." he had 2 helpers holding it as well, one around the middle and one at the tail. I always loved reptiles so i was the first kid to walk up and pet it, growing up i was tought slow movements and two fingur rule for ANY animal. So its the parents and the handelers fault the kid got bit, not the snakes fault. the kid prolly moved to fast or something and resulted in the bites. the snake should NOT be terminated because of this.


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## Kathy (Nov 17, 2010)

I don't believe the parents want the snake put down anymore since she has been removed from any future shows.  However the snake is still at the vet.  She has a mass near the upper end of her intestinal track and they are trying to save her.


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## Ookamii (Nov 17, 2010)

Kathy said:


> I don't believe the parents want the snake put down anymore since she has been removed from any future shows.  However the snake is still at the vet.  She has a mass near the upper end of her intestinal track and they are trying to save her.


So there was a medical reason as to the snake biting the kid, one of the kids might have touched it. i hope thay save the snake.


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## Kathy (Nov 17, 2010)

Yeah, they just love her too, her name is Squish and are really worried about her.


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## Kathy (Dec 15, 2010)

Just in case anyone is interested, the snake was constipated and is now doing fine.  The boy's wounds healed in two weeks with no scars, and the parents did not sue, they just had to pay the $400 deductible.  Good for the snake, and big lesson learned for all.


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## 2bears (Dec 15, 2010)

*Poor Judgement*

This was a case of poor judgement on the part of the handler, something triggered the bite and a snakes only defense is its mouth, the handler used poor judgement puting the snake in that situation.:wall:

2Bears


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## Musicwolf (Dec 22, 2010)

Kathy said:


> Just in case anyone is interested, the snake was constipated and is now doing fine.  The boy's wounds healed in two weeks with no scars, and the parents did not sue, they just had to pay the $400 deductible.  Good for the snake, and big lesson learned for all.


Very glad that it worked out this way - - anything less would have been tragic.


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## txgsxr (Dec 22, 2010)

skippy said:


> do you even need to ask? i doubt anyone here would be clamoring for the snakes head.


I dont mind, I would rather be at the head then the tail. More control at the head end. lol



2bears said:


> This was a case of poor judgement on the part of the handler, something triggered the bite and a snakes only defense is its mouth, the handler used poor judgement puting the snake in that situation.:wall:
> 
> 2Bears



I agree. After 25 years of working with these amazing animals I have not been hit but twice, and both times I had done something to bring it on. 

Something made it bite, could have been something like one of the kids holding to tightly and hurting the snake. 

I also agree that there should have been a keeper at the head. They are wild animals and no matter how many times you get by with something, it doesnt mean you always will.


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## pok2010 (Dec 23, 2010)

glad all turned out ok, and the snake is fine, 

P.s 

put your own child in that situation, then its your fault, Take responcibility you silly parent, as for the handler, yes he should have been holding the head, but hey if i were a snake, and i fancied a bite to eat, ima eat ;P


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## le-thomas (Jan 19, 2011)

What if that lady's id threw something at anther person's kid.
Should we put it down?
The kid didn't die or get injured and the snake was being a snake.
If they put the snake down, I'll put them down XD


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## sbk94 (Jan 22, 2011)

*@Kathy about snake bite*

Kathy I agree with you whether or not your biased. Maybe it was 100% fault of the snake owner. Your kid your responsibility. When I was younger I got salmonella from El Pollo Loco and my parents sued for them to cover medical bills. They didn't go on news and say people of America let's shut them down. In other words Sh!T happens. Snakes do NOT know right from wrong. And the parents being parents KNEW what the snake is capable of yeah they didn't expect it but you put your kid out there knowing there was a small % chance something could go wrong. Also most snake bites are on the face hands arms and legs down(due to us using those parts [most] blood rushes through making those parts give off MORE heat) snake being a snake will strike at heat. Therefore if a snake is being a snake how can you think of judging it and putting it down?
Steven


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## dtknow (Jan 24, 2011)

Have to disagree again. The parents put their trust in the handler of the snake.


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## sbk94 (Jan 26, 2011)

I'm not sayin it's the parents fault but they know what CAN happen. Also watching the interview the parents just don't want it to happen again they NEVER said put it down. Therefore this whole thing was blown out of the water.
Steven


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## Obelisk (Jan 27, 2011)

The main people at fault are the handlers IMO. They're the ones who are most familiar with the animal. Most often the parents will just take the word of the handler because they know nothing about the animal. 

Of course, I don't think the snake should be put down. The fact that it bit someone doesn't mean that it's any more easily provoked than the next snake. Based on what I've seen, a bite from a nonvenomous snake isn't anywhere near big enough of a deal to put the animal down.


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## H. laoticus (Jan 27, 2011)

The handlers are responsible for their snake and the parents are responsible for their kid.


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## Obelisk (Jan 27, 2011)

Sure, but it was the handlers' idea to have kids near the head. They, at the very least, are the ones who are supposed to be knowledgeable on the animal (plus, they're getting paid to show the snake while knowing how to do it right). 

The average person doesn't know a whole lot about reptiles. So they often assume that the handler knows what they're doing and knows how the animal will behave and react.


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