# Tarantula's VS Scorpions.



## Malhavoc's (Sep 17, 2003)

I know this subject will be a lil bias in this section of the forum BUT! Say we put together A adult P emporer scorpion with a terrestial tarantula of the same size. If the two fight who would win? The scorpions has much tougher exoskeleton but the t has the hight advantage. but then one sting could possibly kill the tarantula yet I read in the scorpion forum of someoen dividing a tank between a A avic and a scopr [unsure of type or size of scorp] but the a avic sqwueezed through and killed the scorpion with only a loss of one leg any thoughts on which is the better predator scorps or their match in T's


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## Mojo Jojo (Sep 17, 2003)

*blinks repeatedly slowly -- but not too slowly*

Jon

Honestly, if I had to bet, I would bet on the scorpion.


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## Malhavoc's (Sep 17, 2003)

So would I till I red a T killed one...


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## Phillip (Sep 17, 2003)

Something tells me this question wont get much positive feedback here as the concept is a waste of two animals both deserving more respect than to test the theory.

That being said the edge would probably go to the emp but again this is not a productive thought to be bouncing around in ones skull to begin with.

Phil


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## Malhavoc's (Sep 17, 2003)

I didnt expect much feed back at all to tell you the truth. but it still is a viable question. Consider this scorpions and tarantula's all came from the same ancestor. But they took different evolutionary routes even then they habit the same area's so which is the better hunter which is the ultimate which will survive for the next million years


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## Wade (Sep 17, 2003)

I'm going to assume this is a hypothetical question and you are not considering an actual "experiment". 

Although the ranges of scorpions and tarantulas certainly do overlap in many areas of the world, that doesn't mean they're competing in the same ecological niches. Tarantulas are primarily ambush predators, waiting in or near their burrows (or aboreal retreats) for whatever blunders by. Scorpions, on the other hand, may burrow, but will leave the shelter to actively hunt when it's hungry. If a scorpion happens to walk close to a tarantulas burrow, then the spider will have the advantage. However, in open combat, scorpions are probably better equiped, they're fully armored and posess wepons at both ends, while the spider has theat big, soft and relatively unprotected abdomen. Size is of course a factor as well, if one animal is much larger than the other, there will be an obvious advantge.

Who's the better pradator? Depends on the playing field. Tarantulas are great ambush predators, while scorions are much better active hunters. 

A friend of mine who worked in a pet store ACCIDENTLY set up this very senario once. He was cleaning cages at the store, and needed to do something with an A. avicularia whil he cleaned it's cage. The cage next to it had an emperor scorpion in it. He reasoned that the spider would stay up at the top and the two would be fine together for the few minutes he needed to clean the Avic's cage. He cleaned the cage, and returned to find the emperor tearing into the Avic like a redneck at an all-you-can-eat crablegs resturant.  He actully managed to rescue the spider, but it was missing at least four legs!

Wade


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## Code Monkey (Sep 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Wade _
> *He cleaned the cage, and returned to find the emperor tearing into the Avic like a redneck at an all-you-can-eat crablegs resturant.*


Classic visual =D


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## looseyfur (Sep 17, 2003)

wow-
 whats with the degradation of the quality of posts around here lately.

anyhow I would move this thread be closed.
one: it has been asked before and got similar distain from other fourm members.
two: Its a strait up troll fest of a post imo 
three: even the mild suggestion that someone would do something like this is asinine.


I didnt expect much feed back at all to tell you the truth. but it still is a viable question. Consider this scorpions and tarantula's all came from the same ancestor. But they took different evolutionary routes even then they habit the same area's so which is the better hunter which is the ultimate which will survive for the next million years

um so how does this statement validate this thread? According to this theory which applies to EVERY creature on the planet what scientifical benefit or realization are we supposed to have on the subject by theorizing on these two animals combating?


honestly its _[edited]_ like this that has me only reading select ppls post. how sad.


loosey


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## abstract (Sep 17, 2003)

> honestly its _[edited]_ like this that has me only reading select ppls post. how sad.


I *completely* disagree.  People think of things sometimes, hypothetical as they may be, that would be something that could be considered inappropriate to do.  

Either way, it's a legitimate question, and there is no way this thread should be closed.  I don't think there  is anything wrong with discussing it just for the sake of discussion!

Now, if you were some crazy teenager that just did this as an experiment, then posted saying how cool it was - then I'd be upset.

If you have a legitamite question or something to ponder - post it!  Why keep quiet because you're scared how some people may react - I don't think that's the environment this "forum for discussion" is supposed to offer.

That's the way I look at it.


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## skinheaddave (Sep 17, 2003)

As long as it is kept civil, I see absolutely no reason to close this thread.

Cheers,
Dave


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## Valael (Sep 17, 2003)

It's not the first time a thread like this has popped up.



I think it's strictly a "luck" thing.  Heh, I don't know how else to say it.


But some people report Ts winning, others report Scorps winning.


I talked to a lady back when I worked at Wal Mart who used to run a petstore.  She tried to put a T and a scorp into the same cage with a divider. (Emp and a G. Rosea)

G. Rosea squeezed over and proceeded to eat the Emp.  Lost a couple legs (If I remember correctly, it had 5 left in the end.) but most definitely "won" the fight.


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## greensleeves (Sep 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Valael _
> *I talked to a lady back when I worked at Wal Mart who used to run a petstore.  She tried to put a T and a scorp into the same cage with a divider. (Emp and a G. Rosea)*


I'm just astounded by WalMart selling Ts and scorps!  

Greensleeves


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## Tangled WWWeb (Sep 17, 2003)

While in college, I worked at a petstore where I saw this intentionally done.  Let me stress that this was *not done by me* , nor do I condone such behavior.  The species involved were G. rosea and P. imperator.  I assume that neither was hungry because they ignored each other even after being prodded together several times.

John


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## skinheaddave (Sep 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by greensleeves _
> *I'm just astounded by WalMart selling Ts and scorps!
> *


They don't.  Read what he said again.

Cheers,
Dave


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## MrFeexit (Sep 17, 2003)

I would not close a thread based on thoughts. Censorship in any form really irks me. I enjoy having the choice to make rather than having the choice made for me.


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## esmoot (Sep 17, 2003)

"Although the ranges of scorpions and tarantulas certainly do overlap in many areas of the world, that doesn't mean they're competing in the same ecological niches." Wade

This exact scenario does happen right here in the states. Tarantulas and scorps pretty much live side by side in CA. I saw the remains of a eaten scorp outside a t's burrow that had to be around 3". From what I saw they both had burrows very close but the scorps were in a smaller area.


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## Henry Kane (Sep 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by looseyfur _
> *wow-
> whats with the degradation of the quality of posts around here lately.
> 
> ...


What degradation? I've been here a long long time and I see a positive developement of the contents of this site and the posts. Of course with over 1,000 members, not everyone may recognize the quality or validity of a post but that's the beauty of the many many threads on various topics. You said it yourself, be selective of what you read here. That's not as sad as the time you wasted pointing out irrelevent feelings on the topic.

The question is not asinine in my opinion. Many hobbyists have asked this question. Nothing wrong with a little theoretical discussion is there? Also, invertibrates DO battle it out to the death in nature, is mother nature asinine for allowing this? That doesn't mean it's ok to do it in captivity butI think 99.999% of the hobbyists here know that...again, nothing wrong with a theoretical question. In fact, my introduction to centipede keeping sparked from a Discovery Channel presentation where they showed this HUGE centipede hunt down, attack and devour a tarantula in the wild. I found it fascinating to say the least. In the years I've been keeping centi's, I've wondered many times which T species may actually be capable of dominating my 10"+ Subspinipes dehaani. Key word, "wondered". I would never in a million years conduct this as an experiment and feel silly for having to point that out.

I feel that what validates this thread is the simple fact that someone asked. That's what the forums are for, invert related discussion. 

Now, if someome were actually posting that they would follow through with an invert fight, I'd rip into them as quickly as anybody but I think you'd be surprised at the number of hobbyists who question the superiority of different inverts.

Anyhow, this is just my outlook Loosey, no animosity here and I hope you don't see this as a degraded quality post. Just trying to point out a perspective you didn't seem to have noticed.

See ya. 

Atrax


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## looseyfur (Sep 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Phillip _
> *Something tells me this question wont get much positive feedback here as the concept is a waste of two animals both deserving more respect than to test the theory.
> 
> That being said the edge would probably go to the emp but again this is not a productive thought to be bouncing around in ones skull to begin with.
> ...


 I should have just concured with this instead of opening up another can of worms...

loosey


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## Henry Kane (Sep 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by looseyfur _
> *I should have just concured with this instead of opening up another can of worms...
> 
> loosey *


Now that's a shame. Why would you view it as opening a can of worms? Where is the negative element to any of this? Some of the most beneficial knowledge in this hobby is spawned by discussion where someone may have challeneged "common knowledge". Not that this particular thread has that much significance but I feel the over-sensitive patrons on any board are the degrading factor. They allow personal emotion to block constructive theory. Imagine the flack you would have received for telling the world the Earth is round back when. Yet, look at the immense expansion of knowledge stemmed from that particular challenge of "common knowledge".

It's too bad you regret having posted your thoughts. I Hope your outlook doesn't narrow your boundaries in the future.

Atrax


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## danread (Sep 17, 2003)

My only comment is that a centipede would kick both their asses with half its legs tied behind it's back (and if anyone managed to do that i'd be seriously impressed  )

Dan.


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## Henry Kane (Sep 17, 2003)

As anyone who know's me would guess, I second Dan's thoughts. :} 

Atrax


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## Malhavoc's (Sep 17, 2003)

So we got a new chalange to this evolutionary chalange The centipede and correct me if I am wrong but they are designed predators of tarantulas but If a scorpion was able to grab hold of a centipede around the head section would it not then be rendered unarmed? or for say since once again a tarantula has hight advantage it could possible bit the back of a pede and if it was able to hold its grasp till its venom takes effect...


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## abstract (Sep 17, 2003)

There is one way to find all this out.  

20 gallon tank, w/ an Emp scorp in a delicup in one corner, a Usambara in another, and a centipede in yet another.

On the count of three, remove all delicups, watch the action happen, and report back to everyone the evolutionary chaos that takes place.




(this is a joke)


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## Malhavoc's (Sep 17, 2003)

Lmao I think not for some odd reason. with any luck they'd all end up dead. From the poisonus bites and stings... 

I wonder though which is more effecient for survival. Which of the three has a digestion system that allows them to survive the longest on less? which is more capable of finding food when it needs.


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## skinheaddave (Sep 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Malhavoc's _
> *If a scorpion was able to grab hold of a centipede around the head section would it not then be rendered unarmed? *


Jan Ove Rein used centipedes as one of the test prey items in experiments for his Master's thesis.  It was mentioned that they were grabbed by the "business end."  That being said, it is still largely a matter of size.  Big scorpions take down small 'pedes and visa-versa.

Cheers,
Dave


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## conipto (Sep 17, 2003)

TO make it all fair.. shouldn't the scorpion face something that lives near it's own natural habitat?  Like say.. an H. maculata?

Bill


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## Longbord1 (Sep 17, 2003)

i agree with conipto, because a more humid environment for a desert scorp may slow down or disorient it. But i also disagree because i think that malhavoc was  wondering who would win by just common known facts like size and other things if there were no humidity or other boundries that would be hard to make even. 
mike


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## MrT (Sep 17, 2003)

I've been catching bugs for over fourty years now. My family called me the "great white hunter" from a very earily age.

So, here we go.

33 years ago, when I was 15, I had just moved to Az. from Arlington Va... Az. was a field day for me cause there were bugs and snakes and stuff I didn't even know exsisted, to hunt and catch.
One day I went out looking for something new to pick up and bring home, and it was a very good day for "me"..
I caught a large female T, by putting a stick into its hole and popping open the entrance. She came flying out, and after I caught my breath, I caught her.. A little while later I found a 7" centipede under a rock, which I was able to get into a can. Well later that day I found a large scorpion. By now you know where this is going..:8o 

The experiment was on. Who could kill who. I weighed the odds as I saw them, so I put the T in with the scorp... The T won in a landslide.. And I don't remember if the scorp. even got off a shot.

Then came pede vs. T.. Again, It wasn't even a match.. The pede. was all over the T. no contest..

Anyway, I've felt bad about it from that day on, and can only say, it was a dumb thing to do. But at the time, It was the only thing to do, in my mind, at that point of my life.
If I had known then what I know now, that T may very well still be with me.. 


Ernie


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## Henry Kane (Sep 17, 2003)

*40,000 strong crowd chanting: _Centipede Centipede Centipede!*_ 

The ultimate, ultimate challenge would have to be full grown specimens of S. gigantea, H. swammerdaami and T. blondi (or apophysis perhaps...more nimble maybe?).

It may go either way with such monster specimens! :? 

Naahhhhh! The gigantea would still dominate! ;P 

Atrax


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## Sean (Sep 17, 2003)

Depends on the spieces, say you put an adult emp female up against say a parahybana or blondi ill take the blondi and parahybana all day but if its a avic or a rose hair its a crap shoot.

When my mom first moved to phoenix in the late 70's early 80's from cincy they used to go bug hunting alot my uncle caught a black widow and a bark scorp and put them in a deli cup put a lid on and watched them go at it t, the scorpion won that time, so i guess it depends on the size of the bug and what not but hands down centipedes are the most evil killers of them all so if it was between a large scorp, T and pede im taking the pedes all day.


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## Immortal_sin (Sep 17, 2003)

I think we all know that when we watch those Discovery or TLC or Animal Planet specials, they are staged. 
So, in nature, without anyone staging anything, that is a good valid question.
I think it really depends on so many factors, it's impossible to postulate .....
But the fact that this is being asked *hypothetically* is completely valid IMHO


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## Palespider (Sep 18, 2003)

I'm agreeing with Wade on this. Tarantulas seem to go into the skittish run and hide mode when taken out of their hide/cage, and would only bite in a reaction of being attacked. So, the scorp and pede would definitely have the advantage for first strike. But, if the T is hungry and in it's own cage it would definitely get in the first lick. I think the lightning fast pounce from a T can mortally wound just about anything.

But it also depends a lot on the species too like Sean said. The Emperors I've had were all pinch and no sting, so they wouldn't have much of a chance. And certain individuals of mine are all bark and no bite like my Usambara. But my Dodoma and H. maculata are just the opposite.  

Jim B.


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## Seen1980 (Dec 1, 2006)

I know this subject will be a lil bias in this section of the forum BUT! Say we put together A adult P emporer scorpion with a terrestial tarantula of the same size. If the two fight who would win? The scorpions has much tougher exoskeleton but the t has the hight advantage. but then one sting could possibly kill the tarantula yet I read in the scorpion forum of someoen dividing a tank between a A avic and a scopr [unsure of type or size of scorp] but the a avic sqwueezed through and killed the scorpion with only a loss of one leg any thoughts on which is the better predator scorps or their match in T's

     I copy and pasted the post in case I am posting a response incorrectly. I stumbled upon the site and thread after reading about spiders, and I was hoping to find a site that was more elaborate about what spiders are predators to Scorpions. I know that a Black Widow whether the discovery staged it or not snagged a Scorpion in it's web.
     On with the response to the thread, I doubt that they'd truly come to blows. I think as someone else said that they'd mostly ignore each other. Supply them with enough food, and they should be fine. (I say supply them with enough food because they likely would fight over food if there isn't). I don't think that a Emperor Scorpion has enough venom to kill a Tarantula with it's stinger, but it does have the distinct possiblity of tearing a Tarantula apart with its pinchers. Scorpions not venomous enough to kill a person in its own right relays on their pincers/pinchers for most of their defense. Their venom should be plenty to kill something about half its size or so. I think the Emperor Scorpion's venom mirrors that of a Bee if you're allergic to bee stings; it's safe to assume chances are the same holds true for Emperor Scorpions. I could be wrong.


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## NixHexDude (Dec 1, 2006)

My money would be on the T. Every Emp I've ever seen is a pet rock at heart. I know a lot of T's are too, but Emps take it to a whole new level.


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## Midnightrdr456 (Dec 1, 2006)

it will come down the species of T IMO.  I would bet on a blondi winning, but a Emp would be a Rosea most likely.

But im perfectly happy not finding out


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## james41777 (Dec 1, 2006)

probably the one that's waiting in its den is the winner.


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## Daniel_h (Dec 1, 2006)

to the people complaining about this post...just be thankful he asked here instead of actually testing it


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## penngomifan (Dec 1, 2006)

lol what about a emperor scorping vs a goliath tarantula or a big one.... thats more fair imo....... btw it all depends, i know people who have tried and sometimes its goes to the scorpion sometimes  the tarantula  .......... HERE IS WHY!!!!!!!! tarantulas and scorpions were never meant to battle each other ever........ not in the wild or in your home...... so they have never built a defence for one another............  how ever if u take something called a sun spider and put it in there with a scorpion thats a diffrent story....... they hunt scorpions in the wild.......  i think the centipede is hands down the toughest bug in the world though....... 

On a side note i rember watching the discovery channel and they had an emperor scorpion and goliath bird eather going out hunting for food........ and when they crossed paths on the show...... the goliath reared up and the scorpion raised its claws and then the goliath just walked away .... they avoid each other in the wild....... usally when they shoot tarantula shows like that its all staged anyways..... thats what people dont realise ......


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## C_Strike (Dec 2, 2006)

As ever with a fight, its dependant on the day, they aren't expecting a fight. so they arent gonna be prepared as such, and you cant really do the xperiment fairly due to feeding habits. i still think, if either scorp and pede walk across a ts web..depending on the T there is no reason it couldn't be on top[ of either pede or scorp in a flash..my vote would be the T..but if the t is startled and realizes its in a differnet environment, i would vote the cricket...lol...woho hasnt ;placed a cricket into a Ts tank to only find the T cowering or moving away from it. i find this usually happens because i scared the t by knocking its tank or sumut.

Emporers are lightweights when it comes to aggression, so it would be purely dependant on the species of T its fighting..and whether it grabs the scorp 1st. !st contact will win IMO in a fight like this.
But centipedes have the advantage of having a very active lifestyle, and specially eating habits. but on the otherhand, i can poke my 2x Sc subspinipes before they acknowledge my pressence.. only ar that point will they turn hostile, infairnes, they are bloody aggressive..but thats the pedes weakness.

MY vote would be, ijn 10fights of varying setups with approx equal sized creatures (hypothetical sizes..maybe measued in weight).. 
Sc subspinipes wins5, 
(seeing as its faux, il use a small selenocosmia) selenocosmia 'sumatra' wins 3
And the poor scorp (O carinatus) would come in with 2(i did have an Opistopthalmus carnatus...and these things really have an angry chip installed by noneother than the devil himself, though they arent particularly big)

As nasty as scorps are, i dont think the sting compares to the impact of fangs of pedes, T's..
The claws are good but i dont think theyr as efficient as 2 big fangs with downward force smashing into ones carapace ... 
A pede gets power by drawing its fangs towards each other, a T can use its pedepalps to 'pull' the prey into its fangs..both causing more impact than a single sting.
I think claws are used in a lot of ways, and such the scopr don't use them specific to attacking, mabe the scorp would cower and cover its face with its claws?
These are only my guesses.
TO me, there is too much extrenuous circumstances to this question to be accurate in any way. Theyr all badbyos, and in there own environment are equally as powerful, and efficient....
Scolo' eating bats,
T's eating mammals..chickens!, even poisonous snakes (T blondi)
And scorps eating lots of differing reptiles

In fact the question should be more of which is the most efficient hunter, who has the highest percentage of catches when they are on the hunt.

Ofcourse anyone thats of a mature age doing this, just deserves a long drawn out sigh and shake of the head.. unneccessary IMO.

Well done if you have managed to read this and stilll make sense, hehe..im getting myself confused here.
Cheers


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## AfterTheAsylum (Dec 2, 2006)

danread said:


> My only comment is that a centipede would kick both their asses with half its legs tied behind it's back (and if anyone managed to do that i'd be seriously impressed  )
> 
> Dan.


Funny thing, I watched a spider kill a centipede about 4 or 5 months ago.  Odd thing... the centipede was (obviously) bigger, not only in length, but more girth.  Once the pede hit the web, it took a detour.  The spider came down to the ground and sat.  The pede walked past again (this is out of the web) and the spider tapped it.  The pede winded around and the spider sunk right into the head.  So here is my take:

Spider v scorpion: whoever is bigger.  It also depends on the spiders.  Are you going to put a king baboon against and emperor?  The baboon would have no issue.  Are you goning to put something more passive against an emperor.  This question cannot be answered simply.

Scorpion vs centipede: if it was face to face, I'd have to go with the pede (about 60% of the time).  Again, control the head of the pede... it is done.  Period.

T vs pede: I'm going to have to go with the pede probably 80 to 90% of the time.

I know the pede wasn't in here, but I felt like addressing it.

The bottom line is that if I'd see a pede go after one of my Ts... the pede would die by way of shoe.

The Sickness


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## Dilbrain (Dec 2, 2006)

penngomifan said:


> On a side note i rember watching the discovery channel and they had an emperor scorpion and goliath bird eather going out hunting for food........



Unlikely as they both habitate seperate continents.


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## Seen1980 (Dec 2, 2006)

You know; I have a friend that keeps a Terestial Tarantula, well a Tarantula, and 3 Emperors Scorpions in the same tank with no divider. The tank is setup like a desert. One of the Scorpions is about the same size as the Tarantula while the other two combined isn't even half the size of the Tarantula. I think he got the smaller ones about a week or so ago while the big one and Tarantula has spent most of their lives together. I hadn't been over to his house in a while. 
     I watched them for a long time. He told me that the slight scuffle the Tarantula and the big one had while I was there was only the third one that he knew of. The Tarantula still has 8 legs and as far as I can tell is still in very good health. All they did when they were roaming the tank is get into defensive stance. The Scorpion walked under the Tarantula and it tried clamping down to only get three quick strikes from the scorpion. After they backed away from each other, he took them out to check on them. The fangs of the Tarantula did not pierce the Scorpions torso, and the Taranula had no visible signs of damage. The two smaller ones generally avoid contact from the Tarantula, and the bigger Scorpion seems to keep an eye on them and the Tarantula.
     I also got to watch them eat. The Tarantula generally sets up in a corner trapping Crickets that tried evading the scorpions only to get caught by the Tarantula. The big one eventually came over to the corner crawled over the Tarantula and they simply ignored each other even though the Tarantula got tipped over. 
    After observing them together, I don't see a problem. Also, after observing this, I think that a Scorpion and Tarantula as the poster suggested of equal size would avoid each other as much as possible and would not risk mortal wounds.
    I thought that this might be of some interest. Also one thing my friend told me was if I decided to mimic this not to have more than one Tarantula in the same tank without a divider; they will fight. He also told me that he made that mistake once, and one of the Tarantula's tried climbing out of the tank while he was putting in crickets.


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## AfterTheAsylum (Dec 2, 2006)

Seen1980 said:


> You know; I have a friend that keeps a Terestial Tarantula, well a Tarantula, and 3 Emperors Scorpions in the same tank with no divider. The tank is setup like a desert. One of the Scorpions is about the same size as the Tarantula while the other two combined isn't even half the size of the Tarantula. I think he got the smaller ones about a week or so ago while the big one and Tarantula has spent most of their lives together. I hadn't been over to his house in a while.
> I watched them for a long time. He told me that the slight scuffle the Tarantula and the big one had while I was there was only the third one that he knew of. The Tarantula still has 8 legs and as far as I can tell is still in very good health. All they did when they were roaming the tank is get into defensive stance. The Scorpion walked under the Tarantula and it tried clamping down to only get three quick strikes from the scorpion. After they backed away from each other, he took them out to check on them. The fangs of the Tarantula did not pierce the Scorpions torso, and the Taranula had no visible signs of damage. The two smaller ones generally avoid contact from the Tarantula, and the bigger Scorpion seems to keep an eye on them and the Tarantula.
> I also got to watch them eat. The Tarantula generally sets up in a corner trapping Crickets that tried evading the scorpions only to get caught by the Tarantula. The big one eventually came over to the corner crawled over the Tarantula and they simply ignored each other even though the Tarantula got tipped over.
> After observing them together, I don't see a problem. Also, after observing this, I think that a Scorpion and Tarantula as the poster suggested of equal size would avoid each other as much as possible and would not risk mortal wounds.
> I thought that this might be of some interest. Also one thing my friend told me was if I decided to mimic this not to have more than one Tarantula in the same tank without a divider; they will fight. He also told me that he made that mistake once, and one of the Tarantula's tried climbing out of the tank while he was putting in crickets.


I for one would not condone this.  I just don't want anyone to think it is okay.  So it is my form of a disclaimer.


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## Dilbrain (Dec 2, 2006)

Seen1980 said:


> You know; I have a friend that keeps a Terestial Tarantula, well a Tarantula, and 3 Emperors Scorpions in the same tank with no divider. The tank is setup like a desert. One of the Scorpions is about the same size as the Tarantula while the other two combined isn't even half the size of the Tarantula. I think he got the smaller ones about a week or so ago while the big one and Tarantula has spent most of their lives together. I hadn't been over to his house in a while.
> I watched them for a long time. He told me that the slight scuffle the Tarantula and the big one had while I was there was only the third one that he knew of. The Tarantula still has 8 legs and as far as I can tell is still in very good health. All they did when they were roaming the tank is get into defensive stance. The Scorpion walked under the Tarantula and it tried clamping down to only get three quick strikes from the scorpion. After they backed away from each other, he took them out to check on them. The fangs of the Tarantula did not pierce the Scorpions torso, and the Taranula had no visible signs of damage. The two smaller ones generally avoid contact from the Tarantula, and the bigger Scorpion seems to keep an eye on them and the Tarantula.
> I also got to watch them eat. The Tarantula generally sets up in a corner trapping Crickets that tried evading the scorpions only to get caught by the Tarantula. The big one eventually came over to the corner crawled over the Tarantula and they simply ignored each other even though the Tarantula got tipped over.
> After observing them together, I don't see a problem. Also, after observing this, I think that a Scorpion and Tarantula as the poster suggested of equal size would avoid each other as much as possible and would not risk mortal wounds.
> I thought that this might be of some interest. Also one thing my friend told me was if I decided to mimic this not to have more than one Tarantula in the same tank without a divider; they will fight. He also told me that he made that mistake once, and one of the Tarantula's tried climbing out of the tank while he was putting in crickets.



Sounds very interesting , but the guy should really spring for another tank methinks.


:?


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## Midnightrdr456 (Dec 2, 2006)

honestly unless provoked and with adequate room im sure they would mostly try to avoid each other.  but i also would never try it


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## becca81 (Dec 2, 2006)

Seen1980 said:


> The tank is setup like a desert.


If the tank is set up like a desert, it shouldn't be too much of a problem, as the emperor scorpions won't last too long in that environment.


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## ShadowBlade (Dec 2, 2006)

becca81 said:


> as the emperor scorpions won't last too long in that environment.


Haha, nice call.

He obviously doesn't know how to care for them correctly, so they're stressed out quite a bit. Making for less squabbling.
But in the wild, I'd understand them ignoring each other if they just bump legs or something, they know what they're dealing with.

But a scorp hanging under a rock, while a T wanders up to it to walk over, the scorp could grab and shove its stinger in the T's face. Or the T in its hide, senses the scorp coming, and comes tearing out jabbing its fangs into the scorp and flipping it over. They could each kill each other under advantageous conditions. 
But in most cases, I think putting them together would probably lead to seriously damaging each other, or death.


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## Midnightrdr456 (Dec 2, 2006)

i didnt even think of the environments requirments, thats a really good call becca.

And yea perhaps the scorps are in not great health meaning they avoid potential threats, and for that reason the T just leaves them be?


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## Dilbrain (Dec 2, 2006)

I think in all honesty that it is a troll posting  
But then again, I've seen wierder things on youtube recently.....:wall:


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## Seen1980 (Dec 2, 2006)

Really? He's had the big one and the Tarantula for a long time. It's simply basic sand that you can buy at the pet store with a simple heat pad underneath. It's not very deep, so aside from what burrowing they make for themselves there is no enclaves/burrows.
    It's not like he's using a heat lamp. I'll ask about it the next time I see him. As I said though I don't see the problem, they mostly avoid each other in the tank save when the Tarantula is hogging the crickets in the corner, and the big one simply crawls over it and knocks the Tarantula over allowing the crickets to escape. The Tarantula simply went back into the corner and waited for the crickets to hop back in.
    Beats me on the requirements I'd take the suggestions from the pet store or what I've read, but I understand that a heat pad is sufficient enviromental requirements to sustain Tarantula's or Scorpions.
    I do realize that they'd be more stressed than they would having their own tank, but the Tarantula and the big one has been there for a long time. The only other stress problem would be if you wanted to handle them, and I think of them as watchful pets. I wouldn't handle either of them personally.


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## penngomifan (Dec 2, 2006)

Dilbrain said:


> Unlikely as they both habitate seperate continents.


which obvisouly meens it was staged duH! lol;P


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## ShadowBlade (Dec 2, 2006)

Seen1980 said:


> As I said though I don't see the problem,


First off, heating pads underneath the cage can cause problems because overheated T's dig to get cooler, (ground is warmed from above). If it digs down to cool, it only gets warmer, the T doesn't know that, and will continue to dig only to burn itself.



Seen1980 said:


> Beats me on the requirements I'd take the suggestions from the pet store or what I've read,


Do not listen to petstores. Unless its a privately owned knowledgable person.
Sometimes you get good people in petstores, but new people don't know the difference.

Emperor scorpions require moist substrate, and decent humidity. No matter what you read, they want moisture. They like deep substrate, as the sometimes burrow in a bit. Especially in hides. (But they don't make burrows like T's).



Seen1980 said:


> the big one simply crawls over it and knocks the Tarantula over allowing the crickets to escape.


Proving how stressed out it is. A healthy alert T would retaliate and show the scorp she wants it to buzz off. Not cower away to a corner.


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## Seen1980 (Dec 3, 2006)

That would have to be one brain dead Tarantula. Let me see if I follow you. The sun in a natural enviroment is above the ground heating the planet, so the Tarantula knows to seek shelter underground in a burrow to cool off while it doesn't have the same sense when the heat is coming from below. I find that hard to believe. A sense of touch is a sense of touch. If the Tarantula feels warmer going down, or the air is cooler than the ground. I would have to say that the Tarantula would know.
      Most creatures stressed enough not to defend themselves also don't eat, and the Tarantula was eating. It was in fact hogging the crickets that managed to jump away from the Scorpions into its trap. Most creatures save humans only attack when they feel threatened or are hunting. Humans are the only ones that hunt for the sport of it. 
      Do you have a Tarantula? If so does it attack you when you try handling it provided you try handling it. You forget that I've witnessed how these two are together, and they only come to blows when they feel threatened such as when one attacks the other. Most of their encounters is defense stance and they go back to their respective territories. They only interject those territories while hunting crickets. When they don't have crickets, they generally only go near each other if there's only one sponge with water in it to drink.
      Finally, I only own a cat, so beats me on how to care for either or. That's why I'm researching them.


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## Midnightrdr456 (Dec 3, 2006)

its instinct, tarantula's aren't really a problem solving animal.  Your giving them too much credit.

Plus the information people are giving you here is from years of experience among hundreds of individuals.

Also there should never be a sponge in there, thats a breeding ground for parasites and mites.


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## Dilbrain (Dec 3, 2006)

penngomifan said:


> which obvisouly meens it was staged duH! lol;P


Yes, I was agreeing with your original synopsis.
<edit>


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## Seen1980 (Dec 3, 2006)

"its instinct, tarantula's aren't really a problem solving animal. Your giving them too much credit.

Plus the information people are giving you here is from years of experience among hundreds of individuals.

Also there should never be a sponge in there, thats a breeding ground for parasites and mites."

    I'm saying that their acute sense of touch would tell them; the air is cooler than the ground and will likely climb a some what high object realizing burrowing would bring them to all purposes the tanks core. Place a heat pad underneath and place a bark leaning against one side, and I lay you 10 to 1 if the Tarantula gets hot. It will climb the bark to cool down.

    I don't think a lamp is a good idea because it essentially turns the entire tank into a Green House. A Heat lamp has the ability to heat the tank itself as well as its contents. Wouldn't that be even worse than a heat pad alone? If a water sponge is a parasite paradise wouldn't it stand to reason that having anything moist inside the tank hold the same thing? If it's a heat lamp heating the tank, I doubt it's much of a problem after all the heat lamp will evaporate the moisture relatively fast. A tank is a window on three sides, and the heat pad is only strong enough to heat the bottom while the lamp has the ability to heat all three.


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## Midnightrdr456 (Dec 3, 2006)

most T's dont need extra heat added.  Ive kept blondi's and other tropical species perfectly well at room temperature.  If your house gets below 65 then probably the best thing is a small space heater in the room you keep your T's in.

Your bet of 10 to 1 is a bad way to put it, becuase i have seen many people with injured T's from being burned (two of them i saw first hand from a friend's H. Lividum and C. Crawshayi).  They both kept burrowing lower and lower and got burned on his heat pads.  Since then he has taken all heat pads off and all 30 of his T's are doing fine at room temp.  Heat lamps aren't good because they dry out the area, heat pads can be hazardous to their health.

A spong soaks up water, and lets it get stale inside it.  And yes soaking substrate does create mite problems.  Thats why for the most part the substrates are either dry, or slightly moist, with an open water dish, that is changed to clean water regularly.


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## Seen1980 (Dec 3, 2006)

Ok, is a Scorpion perfectly comfortable in a tank with a heat pad? I'd need to double check the name, but it reminds me of sand. 

     Wouldn't a heat pad in the winter function better than a space heater? If a buy a Tarantula and or a Scorpion it'll be in a 10 by 10 room and I like to keep the thermastadt at 70. Is this sufficient to sustain heat for both?

      I have been thinking of buying a few Emperor Scorpions and maybe a couple of Tarantula's, but I read the species that is communal also requires moist areas.


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## Midnightrdr456 (Dec 3, 2006)

Emps are communal with each other.  They require moist dirt like substrates.  Rosea's need soil too but bone dry is fine.  No T should really be kept communal.

It is 30-35 degrees by me usually, and I keep my T's (blondi, king baboon, and other warm area species) with no heat pad, my house is usually about 70-73.  They have done fine for me.

Only scorps that may need heat added is desert scorps like Egyptian and Mid Eastern, and maybe from Arizona.  I dont own any of them so I dont know for sure (i plan to add one in the future though)


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## ShadowBlade (Dec 3, 2006)

Seen1980 said:


> Do you have a Tarantula? If so does it attack you when you try handling it provided you try handling it.


Know who you're talking to before making such a stupid comment.



Seen1980 said:


> Most creatures stressed enough not to defend themselves also don't eat, and the Tarantula was eating.


Own some tarantulas and know how they behave before telling me something like this, you've made on assumptions from vertebrates.

Even if stressed it would probably eat eventually. How long has it lived in this manner? I know how tarantulas behave when stressed, and I know how a healthy tarantula behaves towards attackers.



Seen1980 said:


> It was in fact hogging the crickets that managed to jump away from the Scorpions into its trap.


It was eating. Thats it. Not outsmarting the scorp, or anything else.



Seen1980 said:


> If so does it attack you when you try handling it provided you try handling it.


Haha! If you know how aggressive haplopelma's are, look in my photo thread ( http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=78409 ) for a picture of me handling a _Haplopelma longipes_. Yes it will defend itself.



Seen1980 said:


> You forget that I've witnessed how these two are together,


No, I don't forget, I don't think you're interpreting their behavior incorrectly.


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## Seen1980 (Dec 3, 2006)

Shadowblade,

     The big Emperor and the Tarantula have been in that tank; I am estimating about a year. I think they've been together since they were young. All I know is the Tarantula and Scorpion got really big from the last time I was there. 
     The smaller ones are newer additions; they weren't there last time I visited. 

     You do need to bare in mind is until coming to this site; I only have what I have observed when I'm at my friends. Or, what I have read online. I think the source is good because I've noted the same information posted on these boards. So, yes, I am utterly clueless on how these Arachnids behave; especially since, I am not at my friends 100% of the time. I am very much considering on buying a few Emperors and a Tarantula. I'm open to suggestions on the Tarantula though I would like more information. 
     By the sounds of it, you have never seen a prolonged reaction among Scorpions and Tarantulas in the same tank. My friend and I are very enviromental. I'm willing to make an educated guess that the Tarantula is found in an area of the world that a Emperor is found or is as non-aggressive as possible while the Emperor Scorpions I am given to understand is a mellow Scorpion though maybe not as docile as a flatrock. 
     I'm pretty sure the Tarantula is not suggested as a Tarantula that hunts Emperor Scorpions either or from what I read a Baboon. A Baboon Tarantula and a Emperor Scorpion strikes me as inviting the cow to the butcher.

      As to the pictures, what in the world is the bottom one???


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## ShadowBlade (Dec 3, 2006)

I'm not accusing you of lacking information. I commented on your friend's keeping conditions of his pets, not your invertebrate knowledge.



ShadowBlade said:


> He obviously doesn't know how to care for them correctly, so they're stressed out quite a bit. Making for less squabbling.
> But in the wild, I'd understand them ignoring each other if they just bump legs or something, they know what they're dealing with.


This is all I said. It was all about his keeping conditions, which are incorrect, and DO cause stress for both creatures. Emperor scorpions require humid condtions, and dry evironments are not 'environmentally correct'. Tarantulas are solitary creatures, and want to be farther then three feet of another invertebrate. Especially in competition for food.

When you contested my post, I had to prove my points. I think its great you want to get into invertebrates. You'll find no better place for knowledge then here.



Seen1980 said:


> As to the pictures, what in the world is the bottom one???


Bottom of which page?


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## Seen1980 (Dec 3, 2006)

Ephebopus uatuman  I copied and pasted the latin name to google it. The particular color of yours is somewhat creepy to me. I wasn't even sure if that was simply another spider and very poisonious. (I forgot to remember the english name. I guess it deals with its torso color...)

     I'll be sure to pass that onto him. Thanks for the information, the pet store that I'm closest to doesn't sell more than a Baboon Tarantula and a Rose Hair Tarantula. While I'm thinking of it, where would I look to get the latin names. I stumbled into one the other night, but I forgot to bookmark it. 

     If I remember correctly, I read that there is another type of Scorpion that lives in groups, and they can be intermixed. It's on the same site that had the latin/English names as well as information. I'll try clicking on Sheri's beginners post. It has the same setup as that when you click on the name with the disclaimer at the bottom...

     I'll check out the pet store on the way home from work tomorrow since it's on the way home over bedding. I'd think mud is sufficient???


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## ShadowBlade (Dec 3, 2006)

Seen1980 said:


> Ephebopus uatuman  I copied and pasted the latin name to google it. The particular color of yours is somewhat creepy to me. I wasn't even sure if that was simply another spider and very poisonious. (I forgot to remember the english name. I guess it deals with its torso color...)


Yeah, its a pretty cool tarantula. Although its adult coloration is a more drab green, but still has bright leg segment bands. Its common name is the "Emerald Skeleton".



Seen1980 said:


> If I remember correctly, I read that there is another type of Scorpion that lives in groups,


Yeah, there are many species of communal scorps.



Seen1980 said:


> and they can be intermixed.


Um... Not too sure of how often that happens.

And I answered your PM about the rest.


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## verry_sweet (Dec 4, 2006)

[YOUTUBE]3eUpPYAC2Ps[/YOUTUBE]


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## james41777 (Dec 4, 2006)

wow that's a cool video..but..the risk thing..
did the tarantula live?


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## verry_sweet (Dec 4, 2006)

I don't know if the T lived but I would like to find out. 

I have no experience with scorps but can there stinger even penetrate the exoskeleton of a T?:?


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## Midnightrdr456 (Dec 4, 2006)

yes it can, whether that T lived, i dont think the scorp clearly stung him though


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## Palespider (Dec 4, 2006)

It seems like every T vs Scorp video I've seen the T wanders right into the Scorpions grasp. Now if that scorp blindlessly wandered into the T it would have been different. With 2 near sighted beasts like these the one sitting waiting will always have the pre-emptive strike and will most likely win.


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## Malhavoc's (Dec 4, 2006)

Just my two cents, but I know Alot of Pede species activly hunt spiders, for their own enjoyment, hell there are species of trap door spiders that have had to evolve deffenses just for the pedes.

And in response to that video, I dont think you can clearly count either a win or loss, as it didnt follow the Tarantula to see the effect of the Scorpions Venom, Which would be a big part in a hypothetical battle.


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## Seen1980 (Dec 5, 2006)

According the the video, the first strike from the Scorpion's tail looked like it connected. I think that Scorpion is a Flatrock Scorpion or the Israli something or another. I think it's likely a Flatrock by its body. Its tail isn't very developed, so it's not likely a deadly Scorpion. Can a Bee kill a Tarantula? I know Wasps can because their Venom is much more potent.
     From everything I have researched on since my friend keeps his Arachnids badly. I've never seen a Tarantula have the ability to make first strike. What type of Tarantula was that in the video any. My friends Tarantula is roughly the same color but reacts much differently in a fight than that one.
     My friends Tarantula likes to rear up on its hind legs with it's two front raised high. I'm not sure if the fangs are drawn or not. His big Emperor generally gets into defense stance slightly different than that one does, but I normally see them from the sides. The video doesn't give a good view. The only similarity I see is the Scorpions grabs the second to front set of legs to avoid getting clamped down on. 
     I am curious what type of Tarantula my friend has? It is about the same color and stands on its hind legs when it feels threatened by the Scorpions. Maybe someone can tell me.


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## ShadowBlade (Dec 5, 2006)

In the video looks like an _Aphonopelma_ sp. Chances are your friend has a _Grammastola rosea_, (rose-hair). As its THE most common T in petstores.


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## stealth15psi (Dec 5, 2006)

After seeing how that poor guy had his T killed  by an errant cricket leg, it seems like luck plays a small but measurable role in encounters between critters.


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## ShadowBlade (Dec 5, 2006)

stealth15psi said:


> measurable


That was one in a billion. It would be measurable if it happened atleast once a year. But it doesn't.

Yes, luck can have an effect, but it doesn't need to be included when trying to determine the outcome of a fight.


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## stealth15psi (Dec 5, 2006)

ShadowBlade said:


> That was one in a billion. It would be measurable if it happened atleast once a year. But it doesn't.
> 
> Yes, luck can have an effect, but it doesn't need to be included when trying to determine the outcome of a fight.


Given the huge population of tarantulas in the world, one in a billion doesn't seem like that uncommon.  The cricket's natural weapon seemed to work exactly like it was supposed to (tragically), so who know how often this happens in the wild, where crickets and grasshoppers exist with legs even more wicked than that one.

Most of you seem to agree that the predator that is laying in wait gets first strike.  First strike generally equals last strike with either of these creatures.  If first strike isn't fatal, all bets are off, and it's anybody's game from there.  I contend that luck is the second most important factor in the fight, right after first strike.


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## ShadowBlade (Dec 5, 2006)

stealth15psi said:


> Given the huge population of tarantulas in the world, one in a billion doesn't seem like that uncommon.  The cricket's natural weapon seemed to work exactly like it was supposed to (tragically), so who know how often this happens in the wild, where crickets and grasshoppers exist with legs even more wicked than that one.


Listen, that happened to a SPIDERLING. It sounds like you haven't seen an adult T kill something. They jam 1" fangs crushing into the preys exoskeleton pull their fangs apart ripping it, and hold it up in the air so the prey can't struggle against it. Crickets stand NO chance doing that to an adult T. Only a giant weta might do it. 




stealth15psi said:


> Most of you seem to agree that the predator that is laying in wait gets first strike.  First strike generally equals last strike with either of these creatures.  If first strike isn't fatal, all bets are off, and it's anybody's game from there.  I contend that luck is the second most important factor in the fight, right after first strike.


As I said earlier. It not just first strike that matters. Its the one who is prepared more. If one is set up ambush, it will most likely kill the wandering attacker. T or scorp.


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## stealth15psi (Dec 5, 2006)

ShadowBlade said:


> Listen, that happened to a SPIDERLING. It sounds like you haven't seen an adult T kill something. They jam 1" fangs crushing into the preys exoskeleton pull their fangs apart ripping it, and hold it up in the air so the prey can't struggle against it. Crickets stand NO chance doing that to an adult T. Only a giant weta might do it.


I've enjoyed being a tarantula owner for many years, and have enjoyed watching them partake of many meals.  That's a pretty good description of how one eats.  

Are always so condescending or do you reserve that exclusively for new people?


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## ShadowBlade (Dec 5, 2006)

stealth15psi said:


> Are always so condescending or do you reserve that exclusively for new people?


You have argued my points as much as I have yours. If you think a crik can kick a T's abdomen, I'm sorry, then it sounds like you've never seen one kill something.

I did not mean that as an offense. But it sounded like it I'm sure. I apologize.


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## stealth15psi (Dec 5, 2006)

Thanks, man.  I was just trying to get involved in the conversation, maybe even play devil's advocate a little bit.  I know you know your stuff...I can only dream about having a collection as big as yours.

Scorpion vs T is an interesting topic and fun to hypothesize about.


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## Midnightrdr456 (Dec 5, 2006)

heh, just give it time, many T collections seems to grow, hence the term addiction


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## Timmy (Dec 15, 2006)

How would solifugids fair in this battle of the bugs hypothetical situation?


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