# Bird vs Bark Scorpion



## Kathy (May 4, 2009)

This morning I was out front drinking my morning coffee and a bark scorpion was running across the driveway.  A bird flew down and caught it, dropped it immediately, then flew off and dropped it in the street and then picked it up again and brought it to the nest in my neighbor's tree.  I was shocked, because I know bark scorpions can kill small pets - but a bird got one.  Of course, now I am worrying that it stung the bird, or that bringing it to the nest it will sting the baby chicks in the nest.  What do you think?  I'm sorry the scorpion got picked, but it's the food chain and all.  So, although sympathy for the scorpion, I am kind of worried about the bird and it's babies.


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## calum (May 4, 2009)

the bird is obviously experianced in taking down scorpions. A bird would know if something could harm it's young. they will be fine.


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## ~Abyss~ (May 4, 2009)

although it is possible that if the scorp stung the bird (depending on the size) it could possibly kill it.


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## Bigboy (May 4, 2009)

You'd be surprised at how capable small birds are when it comes to taking prey.


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## Kathy (May 4, 2009)

I was much surprised this morning!  I will feel better tomorrow morning when I see the bird.  He won't let anyone or anything near the nest - dive bombs like crazy.  He/she sends cats running - he will fly right into their back.  It's hilarious.  Thanks for relieving my concerns.  :worship:


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## burmish101 (May 4, 2009)

It neat how other bigger animals are able to kill things for food like spiders and scorpions. If any of my scorps got out i'd be more worried about the cats killing them than vise versa, I seen vids on youtube of domesticated cats killing Adroctonus for food Oo.


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## Aztek (May 4, 2009)

Most deaths would be accidental.


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## Kathy (May 4, 2009)

I have to say since finding this site, I have learned so much about scorpions and have gained a greater respect for them.  I don't just view them anymore as a pest and something I fear in my home.  Yes, I still don't want to be stung by any more barks, but I do look at them in a different light.  I was learning the anatomy today on that other thread, that was really interesting!  Also looking at how some of you bond with your pet scorpions, and mourn for their loss, that is so cool and just something I never thought of before.


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## Anansis (May 4, 2009)

kathy_in_arizon said:


> This morning I was out front drinking my morning coffee and a bark scorpion was running across the driveway.  A bird flew down and caught it, dropped it immediately, then flew off and dropped it in the street and then picked it up again and brought it to the nest in my neighbor's tree.  I was shocked, because I know bark scorpions can kill small pets - but a bird got one.  Of course, now I am worrying that it stung the bird, or that bringing it to the nest it will sting the baby chicks in the nest.  What do you think?  I'm sorry the scorpion got picked, but it's the food chain and all.  So, although sympathy for the scorpion, I am kind of worried about the bird and it's babies.[/QUOTE
> 
> It's entirely possible that the bird knew exactly what it was doing when he dropped it. I expect that the scorp was killed or at least stunned and that dropping the scorp was intentional.
> 
> Ollie


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## pandinus (May 5, 2009)

even though scorpions are one of the apex predators of the invertebrate world, they are still a small bug, and therefore, are regularly fed upon by many types of bird, reptile, mammals, etc. although thanks to their evolutionary defense, it takes a sly predator to enjoy a scorpion snack. although in many cases the top predator of scorpions is other scorpions.




John


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## Kathy (May 5, 2009)

Hmmm....so by the above post, that means sometimes the scorpion wins?  I didn't see the bird this morning.  If I don't see her by this weekend I might get my ladder out and peak back into the nest.


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## dtknow (May 5, 2009)

What sp. of bird is it? While mistakes do happen, a scorpion crossing the road seems a pretty easy meal for an average desert bird.


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## Kathy (May 5, 2009)

dtknow, to help me understand scorpions better, if a bird chewed it up and fed it to the chicks, wouldn't the poison still be in the bird and harm them?  The bird was a desert mockingbird.  Also, I always thought that even if a scorpion is dead, you could still be stung.  Is that true?


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## calum (May 5, 2009)

nah, the injested venom would not harm the young. venoms are composed of polypeptides (the stuff that proteins are composed off (well, kinda) ) and they would be broken down in the bird's gut.


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## pandinus (May 6, 2009)

kathy_in_arizon said:


> dtknow, to help me understand scorpions better, if a bird chewed it up and fed it to the chicks, wouldn't the poison still be in the bird and harm them?  The bird was a desert mockingbird.  Also, I always thought that even if a scorpion is dead, you could still be stung.  Is that true?


to tackle the first question first, it would not harm the bird to eat the whole scorpion, as the scorpion is not poisonous but rather venomous. the difference between the two is that poisons are toxins that are absorbed into the body via digestion, while in order for a venom to work, it must be injected directly into the bloodstream. it is really a long string of complex protiens that break down and become inert when cooked or digested. secondly the chances of being envenomated by a 100% dead scorpion are slim. the venom is forced out of the stinger when the scorpion flexes muscles that contract the venom glands, forcing venom into the ducts leading to the stinger (think squeezing a tube of toothpaste, or pushing a plunger on a syringe) a dead scorpion cannot flex these muscles so it would be very unlikely that you could be envenomated by a dead scorpion, the only way it could work is if the scorpion was not completely dead and still had muscle spasms and limited movement for a few moments after dying (think chicken running round with its head cut off). these are both very good questions and its great to see someone take an interest the way you have. just from the info youve given im pretty sure that the bird is just fine and happily digesting a scorpion meal right now.





John


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## dairy (May 6, 2009)

Anansis said:


> It's entirely possible that the bird knew exactly what it was doing when he dropped it. I expect that the scorp was killed or at least stunned and that dropping the scorp was intentional.
> 
> Ollie


Agreed. I've heard of this before but for my life I can't remember where. It doesn't seem like a big step for birds to realize that dropping their prey from mid air will make it a little more of a cooperative meal.


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## xhexdx (May 6, 2009)

Re: Being stung by a dead scorpion:

I can see someone accidentally stepping on a dead one or putting enough force against the stinger to break skin.  And there *might* be residual venom left on the stinger, leading to a reaction.  But as pandinus said, a true sting where venom is actually injected would require a scorpion to be alive or at least having muscle spasms shortly after death.

--Joe


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## alexi (May 6, 2009)

xhexdx said:


> Re: Being stung by a dead scorpion:
> 
> I can see someone accidentally stepping on a dead one or putting enough force against the stinger to break skin.  And there *might* be residual venom left on the stinger, leading to a reaction.  But as pandinus said, a true sting where venom is actually injected would require a scorpion to be alive or at least having muscle spasms shortly after death.
> 
> --Joe


what if you squished the telson as you stepped on it?  Does that still not force out venom?


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## pandinus (May 6, 2009)

alexi said:


> what if you squished the telson as you stepped on it?  Does that still not force out venom?


i think thats a pretty unlikely what if. the telson is very small, and hard, which would make it difficult to crush using sucha a comparatively large surface area to distribute pressure. the pressure would have to all be concentrated on a very small area to crush the telson, and even then the chnaces of it forcing venom through the stinger as opposed to just seeping out of the squished reservoir is still slim to none



John


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## Kathy (May 6, 2009)

Until now I have never understood the different between poison and venom.  I always used those terms interchangeably never realizing how different they are.  Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions, it really is pretty fascinating.   On another note, I was at a wedding two weeks ago (the groom is an snake/spider/scorpion person) and he had suckers for the kids to eat with scorpions in them.  They were REAL.  He said they really were edible.  I could not imagine how that could be possible, but now I understand how it is possible to eat scorpions....not that I plan on doing that at any time.......


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## Galapoheros (May 6, 2009)

Birds seem to know what they are doing, I wouldn't worry about that at all.  Nature is best left alone, imo it doesn't need our help other than the damage we cause and it doesn't care anyway.  As far as we know, the venom may not hurt them much, it'd be interesting to look into.  I wouldn't be surprised if nobody has looked into that.  Birds are fast and clever in nature.


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## pandinus (May 7, 2009)

kathy_in_arizon said:


> Until now I have never understood the different between poison and venom.  I always used those terms interchangeably never realizing how different they are.  Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions, it really is pretty fascinating.   On another note, I was at a wedding two weeks ago (the groom is an snake/spider/scorpion person) and he had suckers for the kids to eat with scorpions in them.  They were REAL.  He said they really were edible.  I could not imagine how that could be possible, but now I understand how it is possible to eat scorpions....not that I plan on doing that at any time.......


this website is here for people to learn by asking questions. we are all always welcome to answer questions and help people out however possible, so dont hesitate to ask 



John


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## Kathy (May 7, 2009)

Thanks!  FYI, the birdy was back to normal this morning attacking the neighborhood cat for getting to close to the nest.    I love happy endings...although the scorpion may not agree..


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## burmish101 (May 7, 2009)

kathy_in_arizon said:


> Until now I have never understood the different between poison and venom.  I always used those terms interchangeably never realizing how different they are.  Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions, it really is pretty fascinating.   On another note, I was at a wedding two weeks ago (the groom is an snake/spider/scorpion person) and he had suckers for the kids to eat with scorpions in them.  They were REAL.  He said they really were edible.  I could not imagine how that could be possible, but now I understand how it is possible to eat scorpions....not that I plan on doing that at any time.......


Scorpions are supposed to taste of shrimp with a hint of citrus, but theyre way too expensive for me to cook any of mine LOL. Think about this, check out a lobster. HOLY CRAP they look weird and nasty but taste soo good. Arachnids are like the crustations of land, people just think its weird to eat bugs in america for some reason, in asian countries theyre street vendor food.;P


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## Kathy (May 7, 2009)

I just can't eat anything with eyeballs.  Not even a bug.  I love animals and little creature's too much.  But I digress..


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## alexi (May 8, 2009)

burmish101 said:


> Scorpions are supposed to taste of shrimp with a hint of citrus, but theyre way too expensive for me to cook any of mine LOL. Think about this, check out a lobster. HOLY CRAP they look weird and nasty but taste soo good. Arachnids are like the crustations of land, people just think its weird to eat bugs in america for some reason, in asian countries theyre street vendor food.;P


woodlice are the crustaceans of land, lol.  j/k i know what you mean.


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