# Widows together?



## Widowman10 (Mar 8, 2007)

ok, weird question. has anybody had 2 female black widows (L. hesperus) live together harmoniously before? i've got 2 big females in 1 cage and they haven't killed each other yet, granted it's only been a few days. they don't seem to care at all about each other.


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## Selenops (Mar 9, 2007)

One of them is guaranteed to become a meal simply because of food competition and territorial encroachment.


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## KUJordan (Mar 9, 2007)

Selenops said:


> One of them is guaranteed to become a meal simply because of food competition and territorial encroachment.


true dat.

they will live together peacefully for a very very long time because the one that is inside the sucking stomach of the other one after she's been gobbled down won't really be able to complain too much.  let us know when the cannibalism happens, it'll be interesting to see how long they both make it.


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## spydrhunter1 (Mar 9, 2007)

Yeah this will be interesting, I've had males live with females for a month or longer. I just can't see two females living together for long.


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## Widowman10 (Mar 10, 2007)

well, only 4 days. but still happy... for now...


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## 8+) (May 1, 2007)

Are they still all snuggly?


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## P. Novak (May 2, 2007)

Let me ask this first before I make any judgements..what's the size of the cage your keeping them in?


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## Widowman10 (May 3, 2007)

well, it was a 2-3 gallon container, large enough for a widow easily... well, even though they were well-fed, the bigger one ate the other one. figured it would happen, but that's what i get for curiosity...


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## P. Novak (May 3, 2007)

Yeah, it was only a matter of time. Maybe if you placed them in a bigger container it might have been able to work.


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## Widowman10 (May 3, 2007)

yeah, maaaaaybe...


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## buthus (May 4, 2007)

Novak said:


> Yeah, it was only a matter of time. Maybe if you placed them in a bigger container it might have been able to work.


American black widows?  With no "natural" restrictive barrier between them?  NO WAY.     50 gallon tank and VERY well fed... maybe.  
Adult female Hesperus (the specie that I'm familier with within its natural habitat)  will take on an area of 3 to 5 feet during the hot summer months. (if and when they can)
The one to try is specie Laos.  Still, I would create some sort of territorial barrier so that each female has something to define her space by.


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## P. Novak (May 4, 2007)

buthus said:


> American black widows?  With no "natural" restrictive barrier between them?  NO WAY.     50 gallon tank and VERY well fed... maybe.
> Adult female Hesperus (the specie that I'm familier with within its natural habitat)  will take on an area of 3 to 5 feet during the hot summer months. (if and when they can)
> The one to try is specie Laos.  Still, I would create some sort of territorial barrier so that each female has something to define her space by.


Oh, I was just basing it on what I found last year while I was widow hunting in some of the near by business compaines. I found 3 females in a 2x2 sq foot area. I was surprised at how close they were. Then only a couple inches from that I found a male and about 1.5 feet further 3 or 4 juveniles. I mean these were incredibly close. 

It was by the companies electric generator with a barred gate closing it off. They each had their own slot between the bars. I'll go back there sometime this summer and see if they are still there, well 2 of them atleast. I took the other one.  

I guess it varies from area to area, or was this some sort of phenomenon?:?


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## buthus (May 4, 2007)

Novak said:


> Oh, I was just basing it on what I found last year while I was widow hunting in some of the near by business compaines. I found 3 females in a 2x2 sq foot area. I was surprised at how close they were. Then only a couple inches from that I found a male and about 1.5 feet further 3 or 4 juveniles. I mean these were incredibly close.
> 
> It was by the companies electric generator with a barred gate closing it off. They each had their own slot between the bars. I'll go back there sometime this summer and see if they are still there, well 2 of them atleast. I took the other one.
> 
> I guess it varies from area to area, or was this some sort of phenomenon?:?


I've seen them close to each other, but usually when they are sub-adults or young adults. With adults usually there is some sort of territorial barrier ...something to attach their webs to, otherwise their webs will converge ..and that spells a late night fight.  Oh... and unaccessable space can be considered a barrier also. Thus side by side widows are often found as long as there is unhindered room going down and out for a "hunting run". (got to look up web structure terms once again  ) 
What I do see often is one or more juvs building off of an adults web...usually lower and to the side of her main hunting run. I have a feeling that only if the queen is old and feeble (or gets weak someother way) does she loose out to a younger princess in waiting.  Otherwise, it seems at some point, the younger ones get big enough to attract the larger adults attention and they get chased off.


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## JPD (May 6, 2007)

KUJordan said:


> true dat.
> 
> they will live together peacefully for a very very long time because the one that is inside the sucking stomach of the other one after she's been gobbled down won't really be able to complain too much.  let us know when the cannibalism happens, it'll be interesting to see how long they both make it.


Too funny!


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## 8+) (May 6, 2007)

I've seen L. mactans exhibit what almost seems to be communal behavior twice in the "wild", once in GA and once in TN. I'm now conducting an experiment to see if I can duplicate it. It may take me until next summer to complete.


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