# Ball Python won't eat



## penny'smom (Jun 28, 2008)

I am snake sitting for the next week for a friend.  I wanted to pick the brains of all you fine snake folk, for some ideas.

She's had this BP for maybe 6 weeks, and it won't eat for her. This is an 18" BP, and she has tried live pinky rats 3 or 4 times now. She was told that it shed shortly before she got it.

Does anyone have advice I can pass on when she picks it up next week?


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## Oasis Inverts (Jun 28, 2008)

Brown Bag Method: Using a brown paper bag with perforations (small holes), typically used for children’s lunches at school, place your snake with a weaned rat or an african soft fured rat (dead, live if it is a lot younger then weaned) inside the bag. Fold over the top of the bag and staple it shut. Place the bag into an enclosure with an ambient temp of 85-90 degrees and leave it over night. 

Rodent-Hole Method: At night, place a small plastic bucket, with a hole halfway up the side into the cage. The hole should be large enough for your Ball Python to fit through. Inside the bucket, place some shavings and a weaned rat or an african soft fured rat. Put a lid on the bucket and leave it over night, if this fails; repeat once a week for a couple weeks. If this still fails, try again with a pre-killed rodent.

Hope this will help ya out a little.. Good luck


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## cruzin6061 (Jun 28, 2008)

the paper bag method has always worked for me.
good luck


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## crpy (Jun 28, 2008)

Of course ball pythons are known for going for lloooonnnggg periods between meals anyway


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## snakemaster1 (Jun 28, 2008)

I have always found for difficult feeding ball pythons was to use a clay flower pot with a hole cut out of it for the python to enter. bottom side up when placed in the snake enclosure. the clay of the flower pot seems to smell simular to the termit mounds the ball pythons are generally found in. i then offer the python food item next to the new flower pot hide in the cut out so the python can grab prey item. this has always worked for me.


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## JohnEDove (Jun 28, 2008)

See if you can locate an African Soft-Furred Rat. A number of BP owners I talk to claim these will even get WC BPs eating because they are natural prey for BPs.


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## penny'smom (Jun 29, 2008)

Ok, have to make a slight edit; it's pinkie mice, not rats. :wall:   Sorry, for the confusion.  Will the African soft-furred rat be too big for an 18 inch BP???

Thanks to all who have replied.   I am thankful to be able to give my friend some ideas when she gets back. 




crpy said:


> Of course ball pythons are known for going for lloooonnnggg periods between meals anyway


I did have an aquaintence tell me this also.  He said that for an 18 inch BP, he doesn't get worried 'til it's been 3 months or longer.


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## equuskat (Jun 29, 2008)

A pinkie mouse is probably too small.  My ball python was eating big fuzzies as a hatchling, and then went to rat pinkies by about 18".  She's probably 26" now, and eats adult mice (prekilled) or fuzzy rats (also prekilled, she's never eaten anything live).

Brown bag method works well, have used it on my WC ball python female, back when she was much younger and didn't eat well.


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## Kid Dragon (Jun 29, 2008)

Sometimes they won't eat if they are getting ready to shed. If their eyes are cloudy this could mean it will shed soon, so let it shed before attempting to feed.

If after the shed it still isn't feeding try increasing the air temperature with a heat lamp.

If it still won't eat try putting the ball python in a pillow case with a pre-killed mouse. Leave over night. If it has not eaten the mouse by morning, take the mouse out.

Get some of the bedding that a gerbil has been housed in at a pet shop. Roll the mouse in the gerbil bedding to pick up the scent of the gerbil. See if the ball python will eat the mouse after it has the gerbil scent. You can try the pillow case trick. A gerbil had a scent that stimulates feeding in ball pythons, it must smell similar to their African prey, even though gerbils are not from Africa. Ball pythons will eat gerbils, but you don't want to start that expensive habit, believe me.

If that doesn't work you could open the ball pythons mouth, stick in the head of the mouse in its mouth, and gently and slowly push the mouse down the gullet of the snake using the eraser end of a pencil. In my experience it does not have to be a #2 pencil  , but you do have to go slow so you don't injure the esophagus.


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## sassysmama (Jun 30, 2008)

Force feeding is really a bad idea, especially if the snake has only been fasting for a few weeks.  Short of the snake being so debilitated it cannot eat because of illness or trauma, force feeding is not recommended.  I just did it in an attempt to save a boa with severe mouth rot and neurological symptoms, but it was a last resort, with a snake that never could have eaten on his own.  You are sooo much better off trying any of the other suggestions than force feeding.  Even if none of those ways work, I would still not do it.  It is extremely stressful for snakes and they will almost always regurg and then you are even worse off.  Again, it works best on snakes that are too debilitated to eat, because then they usually can't regurg either, and it will make them strong enough to feed again.  I have had very good luck getting reluctant ball pythons to eat by increasing the temp, keeping their cage dark and quiet, and not handling them at all for several days.  Then try the paper bag trick.  I've yet to see a HEALTHY snake that wouldn't eventually eat that way, although ball pythons are notorious for testing your patience in that department.  Good luck with trying to entice it to feed.
-Ally


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## MooSmoo (Jun 30, 2008)

All we had to do to get our stubborn royal to eat was heat up the pre-killed mouse before feeding, we put it in a bowl of hot water, dried it off and hes taken 3 in 2 weeks


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## Kid Dragon (Jun 30, 2008)

sassysmama said:


> Force feeding is really a bad idea, especially if the snake has only been fasting for a few weeks.  Short of the snake being so debilitated it cannot eat because of illness or trauma, force feeding is not recommended.  I just did it in an attempt to save a boa with severe mouth rot and neurological symptoms, but it was a last resort, with a snake that never could have eaten on his own.  You are sooo much better off trying any of the other suggestions than force feeding.  Even if none of those ways work, I would still not do it.  It is extremely stressful for snakes and they will almost always regurg and then you are even worse off.  Again, it works best on snakes that are too debilitated to eat, because then they usually can't regurg either, and it will make them strong enough to feed again.  I have had very good luck getting reluctant ball pythons to eat by increasing the temp, keeping their cage dark and quiet, and not handling them at all for several days.  Then try the paper bag trick.  I've yet to see a HEALTHY snake that wouldn't eventually eat that way, although ball pythons are notorious for testing your patience in that department.  Good luck with trying to entice it to feed.
> -Ally


Ally,

Force feeding isn't always a bad idea. Bill Haas the venomous snake milker always force feeds his snakes after he milks them for venom. He has only been doing that for over 50 years. I had a boa that gave birth to 45 young. Many breeders will let the ones that won't eat on their own die. I force fed about a dozen of them and kept them alive until they ate on their own. I had a few albino baby corn snakes that I force fed rather than let them get too skinny. They all eventually became great feeders on their own. They just needed to get through a tough time.

If you don't know what you're doing and would be too rough, or stick food down the glottis instead if the gullet, then force feeding is always a bad idea. 

I would try waiting for the animal to shed, then heating enclosure, then the pillow case trick, then the gerbil trick, and then I would not hesitate to force feed.


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## penny'smom (Jun 30, 2008)

OK, just a reminder that _this isn't my BP_ , I am sitting for a friend.  

I really appreciate all the responses.  I have been thinking over his tank situation, and I think a couple things are going on;

1. He's not being kept warm enough. This may be the whole reason he won't eat for her. He has a small UTH on the one end, but the other is just ambient room temp.  He hides under his waterdish, cause it's really the only place he has to hide.  There is a piece of cork leaning against the waterdish, but neither are over the UTH.  There is no hygrometer in the tank, so I have no info on humidity.

2. His strate seems to be the same bark pieces that I've seen at the PS where they got him.   In other words, stuff that won't hold moisture, therefore humidity doesn't stay up.  I think humidity is a problem, in part, cause his left eye has that wrinkled/irridecent look that BP can get in a low humidity situation. The right eye is clear.  The bark is also what is holding up the waterdish enough that he's able to get under it.

I see things like this, and struggle to find a way to suggest better husbandry w/o making a friend mad at me.  She's had snakes before, a long time ago, and I don't want her & her hubby to think I'm pulling a "I know more than you do" routine. We haven't had snakes since my brother & I were kids.  Hubby doesn't care for them.


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## Mushroom Spore (Jun 30, 2008)

penny'smom said:


> 1. He's not being kept warm enough. This may be the whole reason he won't eat for her. He has a small UTH on the one end, but the other is just ambient room temp


There's all kinds of things wrong with the setup, but this is the biggest one. From the sound of it, they don't even have thermometers in there, so that snake could be in any old temp range instead of the 90F and 80F they *need*. 

Ball pythons are great snakes, but kept in poor conditions they go downhill fast and can be difficult to nurse back to health.


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## Kid Dragon (Jun 30, 2008)

Mushroom Spore said:


> There's all kinds of things wrong with the setup, but this is the biggest one. From the sound of it, they don't even have thermometers in there, so that snake could be in any old temp range instead of the 90F and 80F they *need*.
> 
> Ball pythons are great snakes, but kept in poor conditions they go downhill fast and can be difficult to nurse back to health.


I have had a ball python at room temperature for 18 years (70-75F). He eats like a champ, has great weight, and is very active. I'm not believing ball pythons need 80F or 90F. This snake has lived on newspaper in an enclosure than is about 30 gallons, with a water dish large enough for him to soak, which he rarely does.

I'm not saying they can't withstand 80F or even 90F, but I am saying its not necessary.


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## Mushroom Spore (Jun 30, 2008)

Kid Dragon said:


> I'm not saying they can't withstand 80F or even 90F, but I am saying its not necessary.


When my own snake's heat source went wobbly for a few weeks in winter, living at 70-75F gave him a respiratory infection. I can't tell you why your particular snake isn't having problems - all I can tell you is that you're lucky, because that is very unusual.


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## penny'smom (Jul 1, 2008)

Mushroom Spore said:


> There's all kinds of things wrong with the setup, but this is the biggest one. From the sound of it, they don't even have thermometers in there, so that snake could be in any old temp range instead of the 90F and 80F they *need*.
> 
> Ball pythons are great snakes, but kept in poor conditions they go downhill fast and can be difficult to nurse back to health.



No, they don't have a thermometer in the tank.  Our house stays in the mid-70's. I don't know what they keep their's at. 

He's just so cold to the touch when we first take him out of the tank. He warms up quickly, and becomes quite active.  Yesterday, he was so comfy, he took a nap all curled up in my hand while it was cupped against my stomach.   He didn't move for almost an hour!!! Nice and toasty when he woke up.  Bet he'd have eaten if I'd had something to give him.

Wish I could just keep him, he's the sweetest thing.


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## Mushroom Spore (Jul 2, 2008)

penny'smom said:


> He's just so cold to the touch when we first take him out of the tank.


That is DEFINITELY not a good sign.


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## Kid Dragon (Jul 2, 2008)

Mushroom Spore said:


> When my own snake's heat source went wobbly for a few weeks in winter, living at 70-75F gave him a respiratory infection. I can't tell you why your particular snake isn't having problems - all I can tell you is that you're lucky, because that is very unusual.


I don't think its unusual, but I believe your story about the respiratory infection. If your ball pythons live in 80-90 degree conditions all year, they might have a hard time adjusting to cooler temperature.

The African Tropical Savanna where ball pythons live isn't like the tropical rainforest where it stays in the 80's. It can drop down into the mid 60s, so 70-75F for a ball python should be fine UNLESS they are not eating. *Try raising their temperature if they're not eating. * My two ball pythons (5.5 ft & 3.5ft) eat and digest well at 70-75F. The large ball eats live rats, and the small one eats live mice. They are alert, fast, and always ready to feed except when they are in shed.

One of the great things about ball pythons is their ease of care, without much expense they keep going like energizer bunnies.


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## WingedWolfPsion (Aug 28, 2008)

*Just not so*

I just stumbled across this post while browsing, and had to interject.

I breed ball pythons, and what Kid Dragon is saying just isn't so.  For example, he maintains that ball pythons frequently experience temperatures lower than 70F.
Let's pick a random country in the ball python's home range:  Guinea, for example.
http://www.studentsoftheworld.info/pageinfo_pays.php3?Pays=PNG&Opt=climate

As you can see, the average temperature in Guinea (ball pythons live in grassland and savannah areas, by the way) is in the 80s.
This is typical of the environments that ball pythons inhabit in the wild.

While ball pythons can certainly withstand temperatures in the 70s for a period of time, the majority of animals will lose weight and eventually perish of respiratory infection if kept at temperatures this low continually.  Most experienced keepers will only allow ball python temperatures to fall to the mid to low 70s at night, during the breeding season--temperatures are brought back up to 80 with a 90 F basking spot during the day.  The rest of the year, they are kept at 80 with a 90 F basking spot.

Kid Dragon's animal is unusually hardy, and not at all typical of the species.  Certainly most ball pythons would not survive such treatment in the long term.  

The temperatures ball pythons need are simply higher than that.  I do wonder if Kid Dragon might be mistaken about his household temperatures--he is in FL, after all.  Perhaps they are actually higher than he realizes, particularly at mid-day.  He did say there is no thermometer in the tank.  If household temperature rises into the 80s during the day, and falls later on at night, that would explain why his python is doing all right.

Adult ball pythons typically eat once every 2 weeks to maintain their weight.  (hatchlings may eat every 5 days to once a week).
It's true that a well-fed ball python can go a very long time without eating, if need be.  If a ball python is fasting, particularly during the winter, monitor its weight.  If weight loss is only VERY slow, there is probably no real cause for alarm.  If weight loss happens rapidly, a vet check is in order.

Undertank heaters get too hot unless they are controlled by a thermostat or rheostat, so encouraging the animal to sit on the heat is probably a bad idea.  The cool side of the tank may be warmer than you realize--use a thermometer to check.  

Try adding a secure hide to the cage.  It may not be your snake, but you don't have to say anything about the addition, either.

As for the friend being mad...try presenting it this way.  "He wouldn't eat, so I was worried, and decided to look up information that might help get him eating again.  I found a lot of stuff, and most of it said the same thing.  Here's one of the things that might help"...and hand over a care sheet.


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## hardlucktattoo (Aug 28, 2008)

Hey I am having the same problem does the brown bag method work with f/t mice as well


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## equuskat (Aug 29, 2008)

Not meaning to play Devil's Advocate, here, but the post above, arguing Kid Dragon's, spurred me to do some research.

There are many areas within the ball python's range which do, in fact, drop into the 60s at night.  Check the Central African Republic, for example.  Ghana also can go below 70.  Mali has average lows sometimes in the high 50s.

Of course, even on nights that the temps drop that low, the days can get back into the 80s.  

So, this would lead me to conclude that ball pythons SHOULD be absolutely fine in an air-conditioned house (mid-70s or so) as long as they are provided with a sufficient basking area.

My ball python, a 3' female, lives in my 78-80 degree room in a 20 gal long with a UTH that brings one side of her tank to 94.  She has two hides, one on the warm side, one on the cool side...and she eats like there's no tomorrow.


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## Mina (Aug 29, 2008)

I don't think it will help in this particular situation, but I can tell you in general what we did with our adult male BP who decided to fast.
He had been fasting for several months, we still offered food once a week, but it  (a small frozen thawed rat) was always refused.
Just to see if it would work Matthias on a whim offered him a small f/t mouse, he snatched it and gulped it down.
So my suggestion would be to try different prey.
And do something about the conditions in which that animal is kept.  Are you sure the lady who owns this little BP really knows how to keep snakes?  It sure doesn't sound like it.


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## Meaningless End (Aug 29, 2008)

kid dragon.. let me put it this way for you.. i could servive in the 60s in a jail cell with crap food and nothing but a bench to sleep on.. but that dosent mean i want to.

if you can do better for your snake dont you think you should?  yes its ok for ball pythons to drop to temps into the 60s but a basking spot is still verry importaint.  honistly... no lieing.. when is the last time your snakes shed in one full piece?  i realy doubt it was recently... can they servive in low hummidity... sure.. but that dosent mean its comfterable for them.

the moral of my story is just because your snakes can servive at the bare minnimum it dosent mean they should have to.  they diserve a proper enviorment.. ya im sure theyre fine.. but im sure they could be allot better..

get what im saying?


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## hardlucktattoo (Aug 30, 2008)

Well I m currently trying the paper bag method as we speak on my two that wont eat Ill let you know how it worked out in the am


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## hardlucktattoo (Aug 30, 2008)

one ate one did not


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## Zoltan (Aug 31, 2008)

If the snake hasn't lost much weight, its skin is not wrinkled, its spine isn't sticking out abnormally, then it's fine. But if it is/does, then I'd suggest assisst feeding.


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