# Broke my Own Rule...



## Najakeeper (Oct 15, 2015)

And decided to grow with one of these amazing animals...






I have a Chinese Banded King Cobra male! And he likes to eat chicken .  Hatched this august, he is already over 60cm and is amazing.













A lot of interesting things I am noticing already.

-He seems more intelligent than my other cobras.
-He is always watching what I do and he kind of extends himself and stops moving when doing so. Fully aware of the surroundings, no spastic movements like my kaouthia.
-Unlike my other cobras, he strikes with an open mouth if he gets pissed enough to strike. No close mouth bluff.

I will write more when I have time but exciting times ahead...

Reactions: Like 7


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## Beary Strange (Oct 15, 2015)

Ah, I love your cobras; they have the cutest faces. Congrats on the new addition.


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## The Snark (Oct 15, 2015)

Proof of the serious fanatic: 20 year commitment. And we can expect frequent posting updates for it's entire lifespan, right?

I'm really curious how it's intelligence compares to the other snakes you are familiar with. I m already aware they make Kaouthai seem, pardon my being blunt, pretty stupid.

Beautiful snake BTW.

PS You are going to train it to follow you when you go jogging so it gets plenty of exercise, yes?


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## Najakeeper (Oct 15, 2015)

The Snark said:


> Proof of the serious fanatic: 20 year commitment. And we can expect frequent posting updates for it's entire lifespan, right?
> 
> I'm really curious how it's intelligence compares to the other snakes you are familiar with. I m already aware they make Kaouthai seem, pardon my being blunt, pretty stupid.
> 
> ...


I over share as it is anyway so I think this topic will be quite a long one . I got a male on purpose and plan to keep it with me over his entire lifespan assuming things go well with my life. But I do not plan to breed it or get a female ever. This is a companion animal for me, the centerpiece of my collection.

I am planning to reduce my collection to a level where I will have one huge cage and a few smaller ones. I have already reduced the number to 14 and will probably go down to 10.

I will write about his intelligence as I notice things. Currently, his awareness is very cool to watch. I need to be very careful with humidity as if I have to restrain him and peel him, I don't think he will forget that mistreatment .

As for exercise, I will see what I can do. I will probably let him go around in an enclosed environment when he gets larger.

I am very excited.

---------- Post added 10-15-2015 at 05:19 PM ----------




Belle Fury said:


> Ah, I love your cobras; they have the cutest faces. Congrats on the new addition.


Thank you very much . You gotta see him with an open mouth coming at you .


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## The Snark (Oct 15, 2015)

It's eerie the way they watch when you come into their personally established zone, isn't it?  Just like an attentive guard dog.

I felt compelled to mention this anyway. While the guys at the snake farm casually hook or tail carry just about every venomous snake we have here, when it comes to Hannah they are paranoid. Always two handlers and a hook whenever a cage is opened.
It;s so darned easy to get lulled into a false sense of security with them. They move about so laconically it's easy to forget they can suddenly take off at around 15 MPH without any hint before hand.


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## Najakeeper (Oct 15, 2015)

The Snark said:


> It's eerie the way they watch when you come into their personally established zone, isn't it?  Just like an attentive guard dog.
> 
> I felt compelled to mention this anyway. While the guys at the snake farm casually hook or tail carry just about every venomous snake we have here, when it comes to Hannah they are paranoid. Always two handlers and a hook whenever a cage is opened.
> It;s so darned easy to get lulled into a false sense of security with them. They move about so laconically it's easy to forget they can suddenly take off at around 15 MPH without any hint before hand.


This is another insane thing I noticed right away. I was trying to see if he was gonna take a pinky but he wasn't interested, yet he wasn't moving much either. He was stationary almost like a viper but finally I bugged him enough and he "flew" at me. There is certainly a learning curve here and I hope I get there before getting bitten. This one of the reasons why I got a very young animal so that I can learn and the consequences are more manageable. They are quite different from Naja.


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## The Snark (Oct 15, 2015)

By the way, do give it an enclosure where it can climb. Not a joke. That are amazingly strong and capable climbers that are enthralling to watch and this also adds a measure of safety. Once in a tree they can't pull off that dragster sprint.

What I am most curious about is this 'multiple environments' these animals inhabit and have adapted to. Their primary hunting ground is holes where they munch other snakes. A secondary natural hunting habitat is streams, rivers and ponds, hunting amphibians and they are strong swimmers. They can climb trees to avoid predators as good as the best arboreal snakes. Yet these animals have also developed the ability to range around without respect for territory and hunt much like a reptilian version of a cheetah. How did this animal acquire such diverse abilities? Not only acquiring diverse capabilities but evolving those abilities where they are as capable as single environment inhabitants.

Weird. Can easily take kraits and vipers and each other, zaps frogs and tadpoles like picking out veggies at your local produce market, can live in trees for days avoiding predators, then move several miles away arbitrarily while hunting like the great cats in the grasslands. The females possess a maternal instinct similar to mammals. They certain got their fair share and then some of evolutionary adaptations.


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## Najakeeper (Oct 16, 2015)

The Snark said:


> By the way, do give it an enclosure where it can climb. Not a joke. That are amazingly strong and capable climbers that are enthralling to watch and this also adds a measure of safety. Once in a tree they can't pull off that dragster sprint.
> 
> What I am most curious about is this 'multiple environments' these animals inhabit and have adapted to. Their primary hunting ground is holes where they munch other snakes. A secondary natural hunting habitat is streams, rivers and ponds, hunting amphibians and they are strong swimmers. They can climb trees to avoid predators as good as the best arboreal snakes. Yet these animals have also developed the ability to range around without respect for territory and hunt much like a reptilian version of a cheetah. How did this animal acquire such diverse abilities? Not only acquiring diverse capabilities but evolving those abilities where they are as capable as single environment inhabitants.
> 
> Weird. Can easily take kraits and vipers and each other, zaps frogs and tadpoles like picking out veggies at your local produce market, can live in trees for days avoiding predators, then move several miles away arbitrarily while hunting like the great cats in the grasslands. The females possess a maternal instinct similar to mammals. They certain got their fair share and then some of evolutionary adaptations.


What I am planning is basically keep him in the 60cm long enclosure for a few months until he gets acclimated. He is barely that long now anyway and he fits quite well. Then, move him to a 120 cm long enclosure for the next year or so, then attach another 120cm long enclosure to the first one via a large hole. Finally, in his third year or so, design a custom enclosure that is about a meter tall, a meter deep and three meters long for a permanent home. I currently see his aboreal tendencies as when lights are off, he sometimes climbs and settles on the light fixtures and watches the room with those large attentive eyes. It is a bit creepy really .

As for the evolutionary progress of hannah, it is a difficult thing to explain. I mean, all elapids except for sea snakes, kraits and death adders do climb trees for shelter and/or feeding but unless they are specialized tree climbers, they are kind of clumsy. I think almost all snakes can swim if they have to but again only the specialized ones do it very often and so expertly. When it comes to hannah, it seems like they utilize all these potential feeding grounds to a decent extent. I guess this can be attributed to their intelligence. Humans are tropical animals but we also live in Colorado expertly (for some reason...  ). This is basically purely due to our intelligence capacity.

Named him Don Pablo by the way .


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## le-thomas (Oct 16, 2015)

What a beautiful animal! Superficially bears some resemblance to a number of colubrid/rear-fanged Asiatic snakes.


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## Najakeeper (Oct 16, 2015)

le-thomas said:


> What a beautiful animal! Superficially bears some resemblance to a number of colubrid/rear-fanged Asiatic snakes.


Agreed. There is a camouflage reason there. Probably not mimic but convergent evolution.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ratmosphere (Oct 17, 2015)

That's a beautiful snake!


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## Najakeeper (Oct 18, 2015)

Ratmosphere said:


> That's a beautiful snake!


Thank you.

He is amazing really.

He is almost always watching me when I am in the room, quite creepy 







Here is a video from today's feeding. He still has no interest in mice but is totally fine with chicken.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Najakeeper (Oct 26, 2015)

One observatory update:

The baby king got used to me way too quickly. I have worked with several hatchling/baby _Naja_ like _pallida, haje, nigricollis, samarensis, kouthia_ etc. All of them were constantly agitated animals and they did not cool down. They anticipated me being their presence always as a threat and spitters constantly sprayed venom. This guy came in the first day and after a long journey he was quite pissed off. I saw an open mouthed strike but after that he just mellowed down. Right now, he is perfectly fine on a hook and he seems like he will be perfectly ok if I free handled him, not that I am going to do anything like that but that's the impression. I can only compare that to the cbb water cobras that I am working with maybe but not to any other _Naja_ species.

He is going to have his first shed soon, let's see what happens after that.

Reactions: Like 1


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## The Snark (Oct 26, 2015)

Always watching, always alert, always curious. 

That mellowing out is the major paradox at the snake farm. The pros, handling snakes from about the time they could walk, go one on one handling with every snake there except the kings and the kings always appear more laid back than most if not all of the other venomous ones. Those guys know something, either from bitter experience or lots of stories about being complacent around kings.

What I can't figure out is the spitters. A rancidly bad attitude with a snake attached. They make hot and bothered rattlers look like old coon hounds decorating porches.


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## Najakeeper (Nov 1, 2015)

The Snark said:


> Always watching, always alert, always curious.
> 
> That mellowing out is the major paradox at the snake farm. The pros, handling snakes from about the time they could walk, go one on one handling with every snake there except the kings and the kings always appear more laid back than most if not all of the other venomous ones. Those guys know something, either from bitter experience or lots of stories about being complacent around kings.
> 
> What I can't figure out is the spitters. A rancidly bad attitude with a snake attached. They make hot and bothered rattlers look like old coon hounds decorating porches.


I also do not know why spitters act the way they do really but I stopped working with them. The Samars as adults do not spit but I am even going to sell that pair I think.

In the meantime, king is outside of his quarantine terrarium and is in the 80 cm long terrarium that he is going to spend his first year in. I have a good looking boy:

Reactions: Like 4


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## The Snark (Nov 1, 2015)

He's posing!
Do you have plans to breed him in the future?


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## awiec (Nov 1, 2015)

The Snark said:


> He's posing!
> Do you have plans to breed him in the future?


I believe he said no in the first post, this snake is a "companion" animal, which kings have enough intelligence and personality to fit that


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## Najakeeper (Nov 2, 2015)

The Snark said:


> He's posing!
> Do you have plans to breed him in the future?


No interest and/or space to keep a pair happy and healthy. He is going to be a bachelor unless I donate him to a zoo or something at some point in my life, which I do not intend to do.


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## Coconana (Nov 23, 2015)

I have a healthy fear of snakes, especially ones with nasty bites and attitudes! But I must say.. Your collection is fascinating, and I'm loving reading through your posts and learning more about them. Your boy is beautiful, and I wish you luck with the handsome fellow. 

Thank you for posting!


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## Najakeeper (Nov 28, 2015)

Coconana said:


> I have a healthy fear of snakes, especially ones with nasty bites and attitudes! But I must say.. Your collection is fascinating, and I'm loving reading through your posts and learning more about them. Your boy is beautiful, and I wish you luck with the handsome fellow.
> 
> Thank you for posting!


Thanks for the nice words. I love my snakes and try to give them the best care I can.

Don Pablo had shed again:


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## Najakeeper (Dec 2, 2015)

This guy really likes chicken, still has no interest in mice:


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## Najakeeper (Dec 24, 2015)

He was sold to me as a mouse eater but hated the stuff when I offered him. The breeder told me to cut a corn snake open and take the blood to scent the mice, which I can never do. So I was feeding him with chick drumsticks so far. The other day I scented a pinky with the drumstick and offered him, he bit it and released it immediately. Then I scented the pinky again and attached some chick feathers to it and success! He loves these feathery pinkies. I have a varied diet for him now.

Reactions: Like 1


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## The Snark (Dec 26, 2015)

Been meaning to ask, just how big does that version of a king get? How long until maturity?


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## Argos (Dec 26, 2015)

Fine looking acquisition. He'll probably hit a few growth spurts.


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## The Snark (Dec 26, 2015)

Argos said:


> Fine looking acquisition. He'll probably hit a few growth spurts.
> 
> View attachment 203836


That's what I was thinking looking at the snake and the delicate cute little terrarium. A few years down the road and a Hannah would be tipping the enclosure over or dragging it around the house . And a Hannah the size of the snake in that picture would be considered a maturing juvenile or young adult.


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## Najakeeper (Dec 27, 2015)

The Snark said:


> Been meaning to ask, just how big does that version of a king get? How long until maturity?





Argos said:


> Fine looking acquisition. He'll probably hit a few growth spurts.
> 
> View attachment 203836





The Snark said:


> That's what I was thinking looking at the snake and the delicate cute little terrarium. A few years down the road and a Hannah would be tipping the enclosure over or dragging it around the house . And a Hannah the size of the snake in that picture would be considered a maturing juvenile or young adult.


His daddy is a 6 year old cb snake at about 350cm and still growing. Yeah, as for his current enclosure, he can easily carry it around on his back when he is full grown. He will grow out of it within a few months and move the a sturdy 120cm wooden cage. Then to a 240cm wooden cage when he is large enough. I have both cages ready. After that, he will need a custom made enclosure about 2m tall, 2m deep and 3m long and regular "out time."

I took him out yesterday as the side of his mouth has been swollen a bit for a while. Seems like a very small splinter got lodged in the tissue and caused inflamation. I will wait a shed cycle to see if it goes away or not, otherwise we would need to visit my vet, which is always fun with venomous.


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## The Snark (Dec 27, 2015)

A man with a plan. That custom racing stripe sports model going to be setting you back a fortune on building materials alone. Hope you're documenting the hoops of fire you're jumping through to clue the 'Wow! I think I'll get me one of those' crowd.

I can see that one coming down. Packing him off to the vet. 'I'd like you to look in his mouth...'. Umm, that's what you spend most of your time doing with a cobra anyway!

How clean is his food? I just got to thinking poultry is loaded with bacteria and his immune system is on the steepest part of it's learning curve about now.


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## Najakeeper (Dec 27, 2015)

The Snark said:


> A man with a plan. That custom racing stripe sports model going to be setting you back a fortune on building materials alone. Hope you're documenting the hoops of fire you're jumping through to clue the 'Wow! I think I'll get me one of those' crowd.
> 
> I can see that one coming down. Packing him off to the vet. 'I'd like you to look in his mouth...'. Umm, that's what you spend most of your time doing with a cobra anyway!
> 
> How clean is his food? I just got to thinking poultry is loaded with bacteria and his immune system is on the steepest part of it's learning curve about now.


Oh yeah, it is gonna cost me. I will probably reduce my collection to a fraction of what it is just to keep him. I have already sold the Samar Cobras to open cage space. Also, my wife being pregnant, I didn't wanna keep anything without antivenin.

Poultry is always a concern. I am getting the chicks from chicken breeders. These are the poor males, which get killed immediately after sexing. I am sure they are not super clean coming from a mass breeding environment.

Kings die a lot more as babies, mostly due to respiratory infections. He still has a strong feeding response so there is nothing systemic but I will watch closely. The thing is, vets can't do much with venomous snakes when they are this small. He is not gonna get in there and work in his mouth and probably just prescribe some antibiotics.


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## The Snark (Dec 27, 2015)

You just got me to thinking about something and with you being so dedicated to certain animals, something you should put together. An antibiotic database.
1. Safe for X reptile
2. Specific organism targets for each AB.
3. Dosages, quantity and duration of treatment.
4. Broad and narrow spectrum alternatives.
5. Efficacy
6. Known side effects.
Especially known side effects. As a perfect example, humans almost never get clued that the old reliable back-up, the double barreled infection treatment shotgun Flagyl, Metronidazole, almost always causes neurological issues later in life.

Docs, and no doubt vets, almost always go for the nukes when prescribing ABs and only dial it back to a narrower one if the organism is cultured and identified. The good old Augmentin overkill method. A little savvy and knowing your charges very precisely can save them from potential treatment debilitation down the road.*

Fingers crossed.

*(I had a super nasty infection and got put on Flagyl-Augmentin IV for several weeks. A smart doc and friend heard about this, did some research, and moved me to Ancef, a much narrower spectrum AB with far fewer side effects. And now I have chronic, classic Flagyl side effect damage.)


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## Najakeeper (Dec 28, 2015)

The Snark said:


> You just got me to thinking about something and with you being so dedicated to certain animals, something you should put together. An antibiotic database.
> 1. Safe for X reptile
> 2. Specific organism targets for each AB.
> 3. Dosages, quantity and duration of treatment.
> ...


Would surely cool to have a database like that but the thing is, I do not have enough data points to make sense of it. I guess a proper reptile specialist vet can help us to come up with something like that.

In the meantime, I shot a quick vid of the King eating mice today:


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## Quixtar (Jan 5, 2016)

I find it pretty fascinating how king cobras are so intelligent compared to other snakes. I wonder what led to them evolving this way. Beautiful boy you have there!

Off-topic, but it's good to see a fellow Blizzard fan on here too!


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## Najakeeper (Jan 6, 2016)

Quixtar said:


> I find it pretty fascinating how king cobras are so intelligent compared to other snakes. I wonder what led to them evolving this way. Beautiful boy you have there!
> 
> Off-topic, but it's good to see a fellow Blizzard fan on here too!


I wonder why that's the case as well. It is not just size as Taipans are also large venomous snakes but people do not have the same impression about them.

Starcraft and Diablo were my childhood favorites so they stayed with me .


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## The Snark (Jan 6, 2016)

Had a bizarre one yesterday. A very dark bronze colored snake about 5 feet long cruising slowly across the road. It was entirely one solid color without any markings, a slim body and normal looking head as seen moving away from me. I thought some variation on a Ptyas. The roadside verge was sparse of vegetation and bare field beyond so I decided to get a closer look. Approaching cautiously I saw movement, poked with my hook and up it rears and expands a hood!! Only coloration indicator was that cream colored tummy. I'm still unsure. The head seemed too slim for a Hannah. Rat snake impersonating one?

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Najakeeper (Jan 7, 2016)

The Snark said:


> Had a bizarre one yesterday. A very dark bronze colored snake about 5 feet long cruising slowly across the road. It was entirely one solid color without any markings, a slim body and normal looking head as seen moving away from me. I thought some variation on a Ptyas. The roadside verge was sparse of vegetation and bare field beyond so I decided to get a closer look. Approaching cautiously I saw movement, poked with my hook and up it rears and expands a hood!! Only coloration indicator was that cream colored tummy. I'm still unsure. The head seemed too slim for a Hannah. Rat snake impersonating one?


If there is a hood, then no. It might have been a hungry young king. Very cool to see these things in the wild.


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## Najakeeper (Jan 16, 2016)

My boy had his 3rd shed since I got him and he is growing nicely. Some of his scales already started changing color! Here is a feeding video:

Reactions: Like 2


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## kjm (Jan 16, 2016)

What an amazing animal to work with. They just get too big for my comfort level and then add in the venom aspect. No thanks I will watch from a great distance.

Thanks for sharing and good luck!


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## The Snark (Jan 16, 2016)

What temperature are you keeping him at? He's acting quite hyper.

I need to amend this. Not excessively hyper but along the lines of mid day and has been in the sun inquisitive.

Do you give him day-night temperature changes? Wondering about that from a paper I read a while ago on the effects on their metabolism when they don't get a cooling off period. Something about shortening their lives from organ development issues.


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## Najakeeper (Jan 16, 2016)

The Snark said:


> What temperature are you keeping him at? He's acting quite hyper.
> 
> I need to amend this. Not excessively hyper but along the lines of mid day and has been in the sun inquisitive.
> 
> Do you give him day-night temperature changes? Wondering about that from a paper I read a while ago on the effects on their metabolism when they don't get a cooling off period. Something about shortening their lives from organ development issues.



30 in the morning 23 at night.

That's the best I can provide at my place. The video was shot midday so he was quite warm.

Reactions: Cake 1


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## The Snark (Jan 16, 2016)

Makes sense. I just get itchy when I see a cobra that active, especially a Hannah.


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## Najakeeper (Jan 17, 2016)

The Snark said:


> Makes sense. I just get itchy when I see a cobra that active, especially a Hannah.


You should see the kaouthia... Out of control...


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## The Snark (Jan 17, 2016)

I can imagine! And youngsters... Oh look! A flying snake!


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## Najakeeper (Jan 22, 2016)

A couple things about this photo:

a-1st unscented mouse. She flew at the mice without even smelling it after 5 days with no food.
b-Color change has started already. Those head scales were jet black a couple weeks ago!

Reactions: Cake 1


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## dementedlullaby (Jan 22, 2016)

Gorgeous. I can't wait to see pics after complete colour change. Thanks Naja, as always love your posts.


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