# Why infrared?



## Potato (Sep 27, 2006)

I went to the pet store a some time ago and bought an infrared bulb and bulb holder (50 W bulb in 100 W holder, smallest holder available). I could not attach the bulb inside the aquarium, so I just keep it outside of the aquarium shining in through the side, opposite the heating mat. That way, they get the heat and the glass doesn't get too hot. I was wondering, does infrared actually look like red light, because that is what the bulb looks like. I always thought humans could not even see infrared. But the bulb is just shining red light. Is that really what infrared looks like or have I been tricked? Also, how does a ceramic light work? It produces no light at all? I usually turn infrared off for the night because I can't sleep with it on and turn it on for the day.


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## billopelma (Sep 27, 2006)

Infrared is not visible to humans, the bulb just emits some visible red spectrum
along with the lower infrared frequencies. I believe the ceramic heaters simply have nickel chromium wire imbeded into the ceramic.

Bill


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## Empwrangler (Sep 27, 2006)

Red light does affect the eye differently. Your pupils will not contract as with regular light. I used to drive a truck and we had red overhead lights in the cab for night-driving. That way it doesnt affect your night vision.

As for infra-red im not sure how that works.

Anyhow the light you bought should work just fine. I wouldnt leave it on all night anyway. 12 hours is plenty.

You should set it on a timer; it makes life easier.


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## bia-bia-bia (Sep 27, 2006)

this is the visible spectrum (colors you see):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visible_spectrum

infrared wavelengths are just a bit longer than what you see on the visible spectrum.  the reason your bulb shows red is because there is some overlap at the lower frequencies which are still visible to you, the majority of radiation from the bulb is invisible to your eye.

the observation about using red lights in a truck cab in the above post is basically unrelated.


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## Empwrangler (Sep 27, 2006)

bia-bia-bia said:


> the observation about using red lights in a truck cab in the above post is basically unrelated.


I know, just thought it was interesting.


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## pandinus (Sep 27, 2006)

if you have a heat mat, then you dont need a heat lamp too.


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## Potato (Sep 27, 2006)

I'm having trouble keeping the heat up even with both of them, since the mat is now on the side, not the bottom.


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## GanjaTaz (Sep 27, 2006)

Ahem, seems apt in this discussion also.


GanjaTaz said:


> I've tried the Heat mat on the side route and an Exo Terra Heat Glo Infra Red bulb route.
> 
> My results have been somewhat different with both set ups.
> 
> ...


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## Potato (Sep 27, 2006)

GanjaTaz said:


> Ahem, seems apt in this discussion also.


I have both. The lamp is heating through the glass a few cm away from the glass to keep the glass from becoming hot to the touch (it's a little warm). I have a water dish and mist the scorps 2-3 times a day. EVen if it gets dry, it won't get too dry until the water evaporates from the dish, right?


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## GanjaTaz (Sep 27, 2006)

Have you got a Hygrometer in the tank to guide you in what you humidity levels are?

The mat won't show much of a ambient air temperature rise, but will be heating the tank so long as it is of a high enough wattage to heat the tank size you are using.


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## Potato (Sep 27, 2006)

GanjaTaz said:


> Have you got a Hygrometer in the tank to guide you in what you humidity levels are?
> 
> The mat won't show much of a ambient air temperature rise, but will be heating the tank so long as it is of a high enough wattage to heat the tank size you are using.


I didn't know you could measure humidity. I just got some temp therms. I always keep the water dish watered so there is always some source of water for the scorps.


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## GanjaTaz (Sep 27, 2006)

How do you think the weather men/women tell what the humidity levels are then, crystal balls?

You can pick up a Hygrometer for about the same cost of a Thermometer.  Exo Terra do one, which are the type I have, only cost me about £2.60, so maybe $5'ish in Americanadian money if that is where you hail from.


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## Potato (Sep 27, 2006)

GanjaTaz said:


> How do you think the weather men/women tell what the humidity levels are then, crystal balls?
> 
> You can pick up a Hygrometer for about the same cost of a Thermometer.  Exo Terra do one, which are the type I have, only cost me about £2.60, so maybe $5'ish in Americanadian money if that is where you hail from.


Ah, okay. Also, I read that these scorps need 6-8 inches of soil. Is that true? I have about two inches. 8 inches would be higher than half of my tank and would require a tubload of soil. I just find it hard to believe that I need 6-8 inches of substrate. Then I look at another one and they need four inches. Some of them even contradict each other in the size of the same scorp. Which is the correct caresheet?


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## GanjaTaz (Sep 27, 2006)

For the most at least 4 inches of Substrate is a minimum you should want in your Enclosure.

If you want your Scorps to burrow or they want to, more in areas may be needed to keep them happy.

Most substrate that is acceptable for burrowing material is "dirt cheap", pardon the pun.  I got a bag of decent Peat large enough to do Two 30x30x30cm Tanks and also enough to do a 60x45x45cm tank too, all for less than £2.

I spent more on a Thermometer than I did on my Peat substrate, so it's cheap and cheerful and if it keeps your Scorps happy you should try and do it.


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## Potato (Sep 27, 2006)

GanjaTaz said:


> For the most at least 4 inches of Substrate is a minimum you should want in your Enclosure.
> 
> If you want your Scorps to burrow or they want to, more in areas may be needed to keep them happy.
> 
> ...


Four inches sounds reasonable. I'll get some more dirt maybe on Friday. They won't die with two inches until then, right?


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## Kazz (Sep 28, 2006)

Potato said:


> Four inches sounds reasonable. I'll get some more dirt maybe on Friday. They won't die with two inches until then, right?


Don't worry so much!  Just having two inches of substrate is not going to kill a scorpion.  The ones that burrow like to have deeper substrate (and many of them would prefer even more than we can reasonably give them -- like several feet or more), but I don't know of any that can't survive without a burrow.

I don't have any emps yet, but I haven't heard of any problems from people who don't have enough substrate for them to burrow, so go ahead and get some more if you want to let them burrow, but stop thinking that they're going to die if you look at them funny.

The most important things for you to get right are temperature and humidity, and even those can be within a range, they don't have to be exactly a specific number all of the time.


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## Empwrangler (Sep 28, 2006)

Adding more soil will make heating the tank up easier. There will be less space to heat. 

I think I recall that you had your lamp on the side of your tank. If you could move it directly above it would probably work much better. Im not sure what kind of lid you have on your tank but I use a wire mesh lid commonly available at most petstores. I just rest my lamp directly on the lid to one side of the tank. Then to help keep in the humidity I cover about two thirds the top with plastic.

You might also consider a false bottom setup. 

There are many variations on a setup like this and this is just one.
Experiment a little and find out what your scops like.

Hope this was helpful.


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## Potato (Sep 28, 2006)

Empwrangler said:


> Adding more soil will make heating the tank up easier. There will be less space to heat.
> 
> I think I recall that you had your lamp on the side of your tank. If you could move it directly above it would probably work much better. Im not sure what kind of lid you have on your tank but I use a wire mesh lid commonly available at most petstores. I just rest my lamp directly on the lid to one side of the tank. Then to help keep in the humidity I cover about two thirds the top with plastic.
> 
> ...


What is a false bottom? Also, I have a plastic lid because I heard it helped keep moisture in. The rest of the tank is glass. I don't believe the tank is designed to have the lamp and lid at the same time. I might look into getting a wire mesh if it can have the lamp directly against it.


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## GanjaTaz (Sep 28, 2006)

skinheaddave's Basic emperor scorpion (P.imperator) setup.

Or

Step by Step idiots guide


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## Potato (Sep 28, 2006)

GanjaTaz said:


> skinheaddave's Basic emperor scorpion (P.imperator) setup.
> 
> Or
> 
> Step by Step idiots guide


Okay, I did some reading. What exactly is the point of gravel below the substrate with a tube running through the gravel?


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## GanjaTaz (Sep 28, 2006)

> This set up is a good arrangement as it not only *helps to keep humidity within the tank* but it also looks very pleasing to the eye.


Obviously you missed the finer points?


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## Potato (Sep 29, 2006)

GanjaTaz said:


> Obviously you missed the finer points?


I'm talking about a more practical use. It seems like a very time-consuming thing. Humidity can be kept in just by spraying the scorps a few times a day with water and keeping the lid down.


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## Kazz (Sep 30, 2006)

Potato said:


> I'm talking about a more practical use. It seems like a very time-consuming thing. Humidity can be kept in just by spraying the scorps a few times a day with water and keeping the lid down.


Are you sure you don't have that mixed up?  I think a little extra setup time that will allow weeks or months of constant humidity without you having to do anything is quite a bit less time-consuming than misting every day.  When you do finally have to pour some more water down the tube it'll probably take as much time as you would spend misting in 1 day.  Doesn't that seem a little more practical to you?


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## Potato (Sep 30, 2006)

Kazz said:


> Are you sure you don't have that mixed up?  I think a little extra setup time that will allow weeks or months of constant humidity without you having to do anything is quite a bit less time-consuming than misting every day.  When you do finally have to pour some more water down the tube it'll probably take as much time as you would spend misting in 1 day.  Doesn't that seem a little more practical to you?


Not only that, but gravel can scratch the glass. The added weight might also crack the glass. Plus, you have to clean it about every month, that means taking out the gravel each time and carefuly avoiding scratches.


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## Ryan C. (Sep 30, 2006)

Why do you have to clean it every month? You only have to do a substrate change like once every six months, if that. Just make sure to pick up leftover cricket(or whatever feeder you use) parts so you dont get mold or mites.


Cheers.


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## Potato (Sep 30, 2006)

RyanC said:


> Why do you have to clean it every month? You only have to do a substrate change like once every six months, if that. Just make sure to pick up leftover cricket(or whatever feeder you use) parts so you dont get mold or mites.
> 
> 
> Cheers.


Really? Only once every six months? They told me every month at the pet store. I didn't know that.


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## Kazz (Sep 30, 2006)

Potato said:


> Not only that, but gravel can scratch the glass. The added weight might also crack the glass. Plus, you have to clean it about every month, that means taking out the gravel each time and carefuly avoiding scratches.


Yes, it might scratch the lower portion of the glass a little.  Does that stop people from using sharper gravel in fish tanks?  We got some round stuff, and it doesn't seem to have scratched the glass so far, but if it does then it'll still be down lower than we're likely to notice the scratches unless we start keeping some kind of subterranean gravel worms or somethin'...

I don't think you have to worry about that little extra weight.  If a tank can handle being filled with water, I think it can handle a little bit of gravel in the bottom.  Our 20g Long tank has an inch or more of gravel in the bottom, and on top of that it has at least 85 pounds of sand plus larger rocks (including a big heavy one) and a log.  If it can handle that, your enclosure would have to be pretty badly made not to handle just a little gravel under your shallower and lighter substrate.

If you really think that you have to completely change the substrate every month and you're really that afraid of scratching the glass then just stick to misting.  If you take RyanC's advice and just try to keep it cleaned up without changing the substrate though, you will probably find that you don't have to completely clean it out as often as you thought, and then maybe you'll see why we think the "false bottom" setup is better.

Just make sure you clean up cricket parts and anything else that looks bad (mold, etc.) before it can spread or you probably will have to clean out the whole thing.


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## Ryan C. (Sep 30, 2006)

Potato said:


> Really? Only once every six months? They told me every month at the pet store. I didn't know that.


Most petstores dont know much about scorpions.  


Cheers


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## GanjaTaz (Sep 30, 2006)

RyanC said:


> Most petstores dont know much about scorpions.


Most pet stores will try and sell you what they can, when they can, as often as they can.  Even if you do not need it.

I've got about 4 inches of pea gravel in the bottom of my tank, a thin layer of vermiculute over that (On top of the mesh) and then a minimum of 4 inches upto about 8 inches in parts of Peat and my tank holds the weight easily because it's distributed across the tank.  And if you filled the tank with water I am pretty sure that would equate to more pressure and weight than what it currently is with my multi substrate set up.

As for being worried about scratches, better put rubber bands around your scorps pincers in case they scratch the glass too.  Pffft, it's below the visual line anyhoo and does not really matter, if you are this concerned about all the moot points I advise you get plastic scorpions and forget about owning real live ones.  All tanks are gonna take some wear and tear no matter how careful you are, it's the nature of the game.


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## Potato (Sep 30, 2006)

GanjaTaz said:


> Most pet stores will try and sell you what they can, when they can, as often as they can.  Even if you do not need it.
> 
> I've got about 4 inches of pea gravel in the bottom of my tank, a thin layer of vermiculute over that (On top of the mesh) and then a minimum of 4 inches upto about 8 inches in parts of Peat and my tank holds the weight easily because it's distributed across the tank.  And if you filled the tank with water I am pretty sure that would equate to more pressure and weight than what it currently is with my multi substrate set up.
> 
> As for being worried about scratches, better put rubber bands around your scorps pincers in case they scratch the glass too.  Pffft, it's below the visual line anyhoo and does not really matter, if you are this concerned about all the moot points I advise you get plastic scorpions and forget about owning real live ones.  All tanks are gonna take some wear and tear no matter how careful you are, it's the nature of the game.


Scorps are pretty careful around glass, plus a scorp's exoskeleton is not made of gravel. What I am more worried about are the scratches weakening the glass on the bottom and making it crack.

Anyway, I forgot which substrate I used the first time and will add some now. Is jungle mix good for emperors? It says it works for arachnids and tropical/forest animals. I also got a small rock den (tan in color). Is that safe for scorps?


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## GanjaTaz (Sep 30, 2006)

Potato said:


> Scorps are pretty careful around glass


Wanna tell that to one of mine then who is constantly banging on teh glass with his Chela trying to get my attention? ;P 

& you have read enough threads here already that mention what substrates everyone uses or are probably best to use for what species.  Why not re-read those threads and from what people have said decide which is best for your species and that you can afford.


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## Potato (Oct 1, 2006)

GanjaTaz said:


> Wanna tell that to one of mine then who is constantly banging on teh glass with his Chela trying to get my attention? ;P
> 
> & you have read enough threads here already that mention what substrates everyone uses or are probably best to use for what species.  Why not re-read those threads and from what people have said decide which is best for your species and that you can afford.


I found one thread for jungle mix, but it was about an arid scorpion. I don't know what "peat moss" is.


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## Potato (Oct 1, 2006)

Also, does anybody know why my scorps sometimes "clash?" One approaches the other's front and puts his claws around and close to the claws of the other. The other scorp moves the claws outward or covers its face and retreats, but the other often follows. It doesn't seem to be aggressive but is this some sort of fighting?


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## ~Abyss~ (Oct 1, 2006)

i feel sorry for you potato, you have a thirst for knowledge but your stubornance to take advice from others is what's getting people mad. I own three emperors and a h.spinifer if you have any questions you can pm me. People here know what they are talking about, for example the gravel might scrach the tank but its not visible and wont break the tank trust me. As for cleaning that stuff you got is probably eco-earth or something like it ( small brick = lots of dirt) i like that stuff you can clean it by boiling it as long as you remove all the scorpions mess, altough i do change it like once a year. If you have enough substrate you might never have to clean the bottom substrate. And YES thats fine for your scorps. The "clashing" always happens emps are all bark and no bite so they tend to do that once in a while. If you want to see fighting or as close as you can get to it give only one scorp food and watch him tail whip the other ones trying to push them away. Any other questions ask away but trust me we all for the most part know hat were talking about and we all have questions of our own


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## Potato (Oct 1, 2006)

abyss_X3 said:


> i feel sorry for you potato, you have a thirst for knowledge but your stubornance to take advice from others is what's getting people mad. I own three emperors and a h.spinifer if you have any questions you can pm me. People here know what they are talking about, for example the gravel might scrach the tank but its not visible and wont break the tank trust me. As for cleaning that stuff you got is probably eco-earth or something like it ( small brick = lots of dirt) i like that stuff you can clean it by boiling it as long as you remove all the scorpions mess, altough i do change it like once a year. If you have enough substrate you might never have to clean the bottom substrate. And YES thats fine for your scorps. The "clashing" always happens emps are all bark and no bite so they tend to do that once in a while. If you want to see fighting or as close as you can get to it give only one scorp food and watch him tail whip the other ones trying to push them away. Any other questions ask away but trust me we all for the most part know hat were talking about and we all have questions of our own


I simply don't want unnecessary scratches. Gravel on glass is hard to compare to the occasional and light scorpion claw tap. I added a bunch of substrate so now it is maybe 4 inches. I also added another hiding place. My main question now is telling apart the species. I read the sexing part of some thread but I really have trouble telling them apart.


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## ~Abyss~ (Oct 1, 2006)

once you get to know them you'll be able to tell them apart but i think your making a mistake not putting in the false bottom your gonna be doing a lot of misting, but okay have it your way.


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## Darkside (Oct 1, 2006)

Potato i am using one of my old fish tanks for my Emps and it's got loads of scratches all over the bottom . 
I can pick it up with a false bottom setup which is something i couldn't do with it set up as a fish tank with water in it so if it was going to crack the glass it would have been when i was using it as a fish tank .
Any scratches that do get made by stones/rocks will be surface scratches anyway and if you are still worried about scratching the bottom try using a under gravel filter (which is used for fish tanks) and put the stone over the top of that , that way the stone doesn't touch the bottom and will not scratch it (plus it helps when topping it up with water as it should come with a pipe to put on it)


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## Potato (Oct 1, 2006)

I don't think I have that pipe thing. Maybe the first time I change the substrate I will set it up, you know, when I get used to the scorps and how they live. Some more questions:

1. Is Infrared light in any way harmful to humans? It is always on and the tank is in my room.

2. When I mist the scorps, do I actually pump the misted water onto the scorpions, onto the surrounding areas but not the scorp, or both the tank and the scorp directly?


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## Brian S (Oct 2, 2006)

Dont mist your scorpions. Dont even mist for that matter. Just pour water on the substrate. When you mist it will evaporate very soon thus not doing much good. When you pour water the substrate soakes it up thus supplying the humidity


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## Potato (Oct 2, 2006)

Brian S said:


> Dont mist your scorpions. Dont even mist for that matter. Just pour water on the substrate. When you mist it will evaporate very soon thus not doing much good. When you pour water the substrate soakes it up thus supplying the humidity


How much should I pour?


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## PIter (Oct 2, 2006)

Potato said:


> How much should I pour?


Untill the substrate is moist, not wet.


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## Empwrangler (Oct 2, 2006)

Potato, listen up. Put in a false bottom. You are making this way too dificult on yourself.

All of us have been through this before.People have helped us; now everyone is trying to help you. Take the advice. Trust me, we wouldnt steer you wrong.

For the tube in a false bottom setup I have used a couple of large plastic straws from a big gulp. Its not rocketscience. 

Dont heat the tank for 24 hours. Twelve is plenty. 

You can find plain peat at most hardware stores.Try home depot.

We are trying to help you as best we can but you have to meet halfway.

You can PM me if you need any more help.


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## Potato (Oct 3, 2006)

Empwrangler said:


> Potato, listen up. Put in a false bottom. You are making this way too dificult on yourself.
> 
> All of us have been through this before.People have helped us; now everyone is trying to help you. Take the advice. Trust me, we wouldnt steer you wrong.
> 
> ...


By the time I found out about the false bottom, the substrate was already laid. That is why I don't want to do it until the next change. It's like deciding to get synthetic oil for your engine right after you got regular: it's a waste of money. So, you wait until the normal oil wears out and then you get the synthetic. Is the plain peat in the hardware stores clean like the one in pet goods? Also, I don't really "see" what the false bottom looks like. I just can't picture it. It is gravel on the tank bottom with peat above it. But I don't get from where and how the straw goes?

Also, is infrared harmful to people?


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## Brian S (Oct 3, 2006)

Potato said:


> . I just can't picture it. It is gravel on the tank bottom with peat above it. But I don't get from where and how the straw goes?


 
First up is a simple kritter keeper I keep a lone Emperor Scorpion (Pandinus imperator) in. The bottom is filled with about 2 inches of gravel with about 4-6 inches of peat/potting soil on top of that. You will notice a pvc pipe in the corner which is for pouring water down which in turn leaches thru the substrate giving the scorpion the humidity it needs. It obviously works as this scorp has been in there for nearly 3 years at the time of this writing. Also note that this will work for all Pandinus spp and the Heterometrus spp (Asian Forest Scorpion)






> Also, is infrared harmful to people?


Its good for you, has vitamins and minerals 
Even if harmful its not like you're gonna lay under it, right?


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## Potato (Oct 3, 2006)

Brian S said:


> First up is a simple kritter keeper I keep a lone Emperor Scorpion (Pandinus imperator) in. The bottom is filled with about 2 inches of gravel with about 4-6 inches of peat/potting soil on top of that. You will notice a pvc pipe in the corner which is for pouring water down which in turn leaches thru the substrate giving the scorpion the humidity it needs. It obviously works as this scorp has been in there for nearly 3 years at the time of this writing. Also note that this will work for all Pandinus spp and the Heterometrus spp (Asian Forest Scorpion)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wait, so I have to cut through the glass of my aquarium to install it?


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## GanjaTaz (Oct 3, 2006)

Are you stupid?

Seriously, you are giving the impression you are.  You have been told so many times, pointed in the direction of many threads FULL of all the information YOU COULD POSSIBLY need, and also directed to STEP BY STEP instructions yet here you are still asking idiotic questions.


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## Darkside (Oct 3, 2006)

Glad you said it cause i was sure as hell thinking it


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## Empwrangler (Oct 3, 2006)

Easy guys. No need to lash out. What if he does have a problem? 

Trust me I am just as frustrated as the rest. Some people just need more help than others.

Potato- I dont no how to explain anything any better to you. Its really very simple. Perhaps you are just overthinking.

Like I said, just Pm me if you have any more questions.


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## Potato (Oct 3, 2006)

GanjaTaz said:


> Are you stupid?
> 
> Seriously, you are giving the impression you are.  You have been told so many times, pointed in the direction of many threads FULL of all the information YOU COULD POSSIBLY need, and also directed to STEP BY STEP instructions yet here you are still asking idiotic questions.


There is no need for you to be a jackass. The picture is somewhat blury and I can't tell if the pipe end is through the glass/plastic or not.


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## Brian S (Oct 3, 2006)

I give up!!!:wall: :wall: :wall: 

This is the first time that I have ever seen anyone not able to grasp this. This isnt rocket science, its plain good ole common sense:wall:


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## Potato (Oct 4, 2006)

Brian S said:


> I give up!!!:wall: :wall: :wall:
> 
> This is the first time that I have ever seen anyone not able to grasp this. This isnt rocket science, its plain good ole common sense:wall:


It's a pretty simple question. I've never heard of a false bottom before, nor have I owned a glass aquarium before a week ago, so why is it so strange that I am not completely familiar with it?


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## Brian S (Oct 4, 2006)

Potato said:


> so why is it so strange that I am not completely familiar with it?


Because we have been trying to explain this concept to you in detail for I dont know how many days now . Hell, I even showed you a pic.
This isnt rocket science, its 3rd grade comprehension. I assume you are at least 3rd grade reading level, right?


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## Kazz (Oct 4, 2006)

Potato said:


> It's a pretty simple question. I've never heard of a false bottom before, nor have I owned a glass aquarium before a week ago, so why is it so strange that I am not completely familiar with it?


Look, everyone's been trying to help you, but all they're asking for is that you try to help yourself too.  Unless you want to pay someone else to set it up for you, you're going to have to think at least a little about it.  You can't just expect other people to explain every single little detail about everything you need to do.

I have a tendancy to worry too much about details of things that I don't know much about, but at some point you have to start thinking on your own and only depending on other people for things you really can't figure out or look up the answers to on your own.

Let's take the "false bottom" setup as an example.  Until a few weeks ago, I had never heard of it and had no idea what it was for or how it was supposed to be set up.  I saw that it was listed as an option in a caresheet for my newest scorpions, so I went and did a search on the forums for it.

Most of what I found was not clear, and it took me a little while to figure out what it was for and how it should be done, but with less good instructions than what you've been handed I figured most of it out, and more importantly I _tried_ it!

I didn't have a clear picture of the tube, so I ended up getting a piece of 3/4 inch pipe (and a cap for it after I realized that scorpions or crickets could fall into it).  I stuck it down into the rocks and started putting substrate around it, and then realized that it was so far over in the corner and so tall that I wouldn't be able to get the cap off to refill it, so I moved it over and fixed things.  I also had to cut down the pipe a half inch or so because the guy at the hardware store had made it a little too long.

So now you know the kind of horrible disaster that can happen when you don't have every detail laid out for you by someone else before you start. 

Remember that we're just people too, and although some people here are more experienced, none of us has a supernatural ability to determine what the ideal conditions and setups are for every scorpion in every place they're kept.  Each person who keeps them (and wants to take good care of them) has to look at the conditions they appear to be most comfortable in and then determine the best way they have available to recreate those conditions.

Many people find that a false bottom setup is their best option for emperors, some only need to do a little misting, and some even live in places where the conditions in their rooms are already fine and they hardly have to do anything.  Get temperature and humidity gauges if you want, and then do what you think is best.  If it doesn't work well enough, try different things until you get it right.

If you really need help with something then ask a question, but if you don't at least try to figure it out on your own or look for places your question might already have been answered first, people will probably stop answering your questions at all.  Just try to meet us half way, alright?

By the way, why would you even think about putting a tube through the glass?  It's not necessary to put the top of it through the glass since you can just open the tank to fill it, and it would be silly to put it through the bottom of the tank since we're trying to put water under the substrate inside the tank.  If I wanted to keep my desk wet then I could just pour water on my desk without the elaborate setup.


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## GanjaTaz (Oct 4, 2006)

Potato said:


> There is no need for you to be a jackass.


I think you have this the wrong way about.  I asked a simple and reasonable question, because based on the evidence you have provided over many posts now I know I am curious and I am damn sure a host of others are too.  See, we are now entering the realm where a few people are wondering if you are trolling or just pushing this as far as you can go, to what end I don't know and I really don't care.

You have been given step by step instructions, you were walked through it, had it laid out for you far easier than any others probably have and yet you still failed to grasp & follow any of the advice or help you have been given, you have instead wasted peoples time who could have been using that time more constructively helping others who can at least be bothered to actually *read and absorb* the information being fed to them, unlike you where even spoon feeding you morsal by morsal still isn't enough for you.

I'm sorry, but this could not be "dumbed" down any more than it has throughout this thread.  I know 6 year olds who could from the contents of this thread set up a very reasonable and acceptable Vivarium without asking a single question because the information supplied is more than adequate.


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## jimmysp4des (Oct 4, 2006)

Just tell me where you live and I'll come over and set it up for free, I'll bring the materials too...:wall:


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## Potato (Oct 4, 2006)

GanjaTaz said:


> I think you have this the wrong way about.  I asked a simple and reasonable question, because based on the evidence you have provided over many posts now I know I am curious and I am damn sure a host of others are too.  See, we are now entering the realm where a few people are wondering if you are trolling or just pushing this as far as you can go, to what end I don't know and I really don't care.
> 
> You have been given step by step instructions, you were walked through it, had it laid out for you far easier than any others probably have and yet you still failed to grasp & follow any of the advice or help you have been given, you have instead wasted peoples time who could have been using that time more constructively helping others who can at least be bothered to actually *read and absorb* the information being fed to them, unlike you where even spoon feeding you morsal by morsal still isn't enough for you.
> 
> I'm sorry, but this could not be "dumbed" down any more than it has throughout this thread.  I know 6 year olds who could from the contents of this thread set up a very reasonable and acceptable Vivarium without asking a single question because the information supplied is more than adequate.


If reading about the false bottom on the websites were enough, we wouldn't have forums. If you have such a personal issue with this thread that you have to ask people if they are stupid, then just stay out of it. Nobody is holding a gun to your head to force you to "waste your time" on this thread. Your links are appreciated, but you don't have to make a big deal about an Internet forum, or in this case, this specific thread.


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## Potato (Oct 4, 2006)

Kazz said:


> Look, everyone's been trying to help you, but all they're asking for is that you try to help yourself too.  Unless you want to pay someone else to set it up for you, you're going to have to think at least a little about it.  You can't just expect other people to explain every single little detail about everything you need to do.
> 
> I have a tendancy to worry too much about details of things that I don't know much about, but at some point you have to start thinking on your own and only depending on other people for things you really can't figure out or look up the answers to on your own.
> 
> ...


What was the pipe made of?


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## PIter (Oct 4, 2006)

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=78284

Read this Potato.


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## Darkside (Oct 4, 2006)

The *PIPE* is *PLASTIC* and it gos *INTO THE GRAVEL LAYER* in a corner somewhere where you can get to it to pour water in it ...... so make sure the pipe is tall enough if it's not cap the end of the pipe so your scorps if they are small enough to get in it (if you really have any ?) and feeders (if they can get to the top of the pipe) can't get in it.


LETS HOPE THIS HELPS YOU :wall:


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## Brian S (Oct 4, 2006)

Potato said:


> What was the pipe made of?


What difference does it make? Its common PVC pipe like you find at the Hardware Store. (I guess next question will be, "what is a hardware store"?) :wall: 



Darkside said:


> The *PIPE* is *PLASTIC* and it gos *INTO THE STONE*


You better change the word "stone" to "gravel layer". Remember who we're dealing with here:8o


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## Darkside (Oct 4, 2006)

This is true .


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## Potato (Oct 5, 2006)

Okay, this is how I understand it looks. Is this correct?

http://potato.ifastnet.com/aquarium.html


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## Kriegan (Oct 5, 2006)

Hallo  

Hey Potato nice graphic design you got there man, pretty cool:clap: 

My best regards,
Ulrich


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## Brian S (Oct 6, 2006)

Potato said:


> Okay, this is how I understand it looks. Is this correct?
> 
> http://potato.ifastnet.com/aquarium.html



Yep, you got it. There just might be hope for you yet


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## Potato (Oct 6, 2006)

Brian S said:


> Yep, you got it. There just might be hope for you yet


Now, will the substrate be wetter on the bottom part and drier towards the top? If so, will there be any problems with the bottom part of the substrate?


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## Potato (Oct 6, 2006)

Also, do you guys know why my scorpions started to rarely, if ever, leave their hiding place? I recently bought a small housing addition that is basically a stone enclosure with a small enterance. Both scorpions are in that enclosure almost the entire time, although I know that at least one is alive since he pulled a stick inside the enclosure when I was checking it. I don't know about the other one since I can't tell them apart. The enclosure is under direct infrared light and is probably the warmest part of the aquarium, if that matters. Does anyone know if this means they are unhealthy or something?

Also, just for future reference, does anyone know if Scorpions have a "death curl" equivalent of tarantulas/spiders? Or do they just look like they are sleeping (claws covering eyes) when they die? Sometimes I don't know if they are sleeping or dead. 

Also, where can I buy a black light? Pet Goods doesn't sell them, although they do have them in their cages. Do you know if the black light can detect other arthropods, like crickets?


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## pandinus (Oct 6, 2006)

Potato said:


> Also, do you guys know why my scorpions started to rarely, if ever, leave their hiding place? I recently bought a small housing addition that is basically a stone enclosure with a small enterance. Both scorpions are in that enclosure almost the entire time, although I know that at least one is alive since he pulled a stick inside the enclosure when I was checking it. I don't know about the other one since I can't tell them apart. The enclosure is under direct infrared light and is probably the warmest part of the aquarium, if that matters. Does anyone know if this means they are unhealthy or something?
> 
> Also, just for future reference, does anyone know if Scorpions have a "death curl" equivalent of tarantulas/spiders? Or do they just look like they are sleeping (claws covering eyes) when they die? Sometimes I don't know if they are sleeping or dead.
> 
> Also, where can I buy a black light? Pet Goods doesn't sell them, although they do have them in their cages. Do you know if the black light can detect other arthropods, like crickets?


if left alone, an emperor will almost never leave its hide. Scorpions curl their legs and claws then stretch out their tails during death, you can buy blacklights at any store that sells lighting, although having one on the tank 24/7 is severly detrimental to the scorps. scorpions are the only glowing arthropod.


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## Potato (Oct 6, 2006)

pandinus said:


> if left alone, an emperor will almost never leave its hide. Scorpions curl their legs and claws then stretch out their tails during death, you can buy blacklights at any store that sells lighting, although having one on the tank 24/7 is severly detrimental to the scorps. scorpions are the only glowing arthropod.


Do the scorpions lie on their back when they do that curl? Also, at the pet store, they have the black light on all the time. Why is it bad for them? Does it irritate them or does it radiate them or something? Does this mean I have deffective pet store scorps? Also, I have a infrared light on most of the day, is that bad for them like the black light or is it okay for them?


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## Kazz (Oct 6, 2006)

Potato said:


> Now, will the substrate be wetter on the bottom part and drier towards the top? If so, will there be any problems with the bottom part of the substrate?


It will be wetter at the bottom, especially if you have a heat lamp drying out the surface.  As long as you cover the top of the pipe and don't let anything fall down and rot underground, I don't think you should have problems with the lower part of the substrate.

Nice animation by the way.  The only things I can think of to clarify are:

1. You don't need a very thick pipe, just thick enough that you can pour water down it, but it can be thicker if you want.

2. You should put a cap on the pipe or make a screen lid or somethin' so nothing can accidentally fall down into it.

3. The pipe doesn't have to go all the way to the top of the tank, it just has to come up above the substrate so that you can get to it to add water.  How high you want it to be is up to you.

4. If you want to you can cut a little notch in the bottom of the pipe to help let the water out faster, but you don't have to.  If you do it, it doesn't matter too much what size or shape it is, just that it will let the water out faster.  If you don't then the only problem you might have is that it could take longer to fill.  If you don't care, don't worry about it.

5. It's optional, but you can put a screen (preferably plastic mesh) in between the gravel and the rest of the substrate.  If you don't want to, that's fine, just try to keep the substrate from going down into the gravel too much when you're putting it together so that there's more room for water down there.  If it does fall down though, it's not a disaster so don't worry too much.



Potato said:


> Also, do you guys know why my scorpions started to rarely, if ever, leave their hiding place?  The enclosure is under direct infrared light and is probably the warmest part of the aquarium, if that matters. Does anyone know if this means they are unhealthy or something?


Generally if your scorpions stay in their hides then it means they're happy!  I know it's more fun to see them out and wandering around, but if they're out moving around all the time it probably means they're looking for different conditions that they can't find in the tank, like a place to hide or more or less heat or humidity for example.

They usually like to be warm, so there's nothing strange about them being in the warmest part of the aquarium.  Just make sure there's a hide in the cooler part too, in case they want to go hang out over there.



Potato said:


> Sometimes I don't know if they are sleeping or dead.


I've wondered that about mine a couple of times...one of my H. arizonensis was down in her burrow, right in the corner of the tank and she had her face pressed right up against the glass with her pedipalps out to the sides behind her, and she was just sitting there like that for a long time.  Eventually we did something that disturbed her a little, and then we knew she was alright, but sometimes it looks like they might be dead when they're fine.

I haven't seen any of the bigger species dead, so I can't say what it really looks like, but I'm guessing it wouldn't be too hard to tell if it really happened.

You have to stop worrying so much though!  Scorpions can live a fairly long time, and if you're taking good care of them then you should be enjoying having them, not just worrying that they're dead or dying all the time.  They're not as fragile as you seem to think they are.



Potato said:


> Also, where can I buy a black light? Pet Goods doesn't sell them, although they do have them in their cages. Do you know if the black light can detect other arthropods, like crickets?


If you want a light for finding scorpions outside or just checking on the ones you have then do a search on the forums for it.  You want an LED UV flashlight.  If you want something for inside then another pet store or hardware store might sell them, but be careful with it because too much exposure to those lights is not good for scorpions.  Quickly checking on them should be fine, but putting a black light on them all night isn't a good idea.

I haven't seen any other animals that glow like scorpions in UV light, and I know that crickets don't.


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## Darkside (Oct 6, 2006)

So you can make a Flash movie but you couldn't understand what you were being told :?


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## Potato (Oct 6, 2006)

Darkside said:


> So you can make a Flash movie but you couldn't understand what you were being told :?


Not initially, no. The pictures helped. The animation is 3ds Max 8 imported into Flash 8 to add the text.


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## PIter (Oct 6, 2006)

Potato said:


> Okay, this is how I understand it looks. Is this correct?
> 
> http://potato.ifastnet.com/aquarium.html



You know, this thread will give you all the info you need.

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=78284


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## Potato (Oct 6, 2006)

PIter said:


> You know, this thread will give you all the info you need.
> 
> http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=78284


I just like to let you see how I see it in 3d by making it: it is the only way to truly be sure. 2d pictures are only so good.


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## Potato (Oct 11, 2006)

Does anyone know why one of my scorps is acting a bit strange? It is VERY hungry all of the time. I just woke the scorps to feed them, since they have trouble catching prey in a large aquarium. One of the scorps barely wanted to eat, but eventually grabbed the cricket after calming down. The other scorp grabbed one crik right away, and as I fed the second scorp, it grabbed the second crik into the pincer (so, one crik in pincer other in mouth). This is after two days earlier eating a large, black, hairy (totally covered with black hairs) catterpillar, superworm and cricket. This scorp also seems somewhat large in the underbelly and unusually aggressive, holding back the other scorp when it is near with its tail. Why the difference in behavior?


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## ~Abyss~ (Oct 11, 2006)

Well for one when keeping any exotic animals you notice that they all have their own personality. You'll never have two scorpion exactly the same. For instance i have only had one emp that tunneled none of the othe emps i have have ever done that. Also you might have a gravid(pregnant) female, or just might have a fatty scorpion. I have a very large male that eats with two-three crix in his mouth, plus another two in each chela.
Also i might ask this question in a different new thread, since its of topic and most people wont read this one anymore.


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## Potato (Oct 11, 2006)

abyss_X3 said:


> Well for one when keeping any exotic animals you notice that they all have their own personality. You'll never have two scorpion exactly the same. For instance i have only had one emp that tunneled none of the othe emps i have have ever done that. Also you might have a gravid(pregnant) female, or just might have a fatty scorpion. I have a very large male that eats with two-three crix in his mouth, plus another two in each chela.
> Also i might ask this question in a different new thread, since its of topic and most people wont read this one anymore.


They told me to ask all my questions here.


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## ~Abyss~ (Oct 11, 2006)

I know they said it better to ask a hundred question on one thread than one in a hundred. That because you posted more than one thread on the same question. If its off subject just add a new thread. You'll get more answers that way.


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