# MOST venomous?



## Gillian (Jul 9, 2003)

Scott, Debby, Dave, Tom,
Feel free to move this, if I posted wrong.
   Ok, raising gifted children, who, of course have inquisitive minds, can be a challenge.
   Case in point;
"Gillian, why does the sun come up? Why?"
   This when the eldest one, Gavin, was but 5. 
   Needless to say, I keep myself "on the ball", now.
    The new questions? 
"What is the most venomous spider or tarantula? Why?"
   I tried the off the hand reply of..
"Kids, I think its the "Daddy Long Legs or, one of the Australian ones."
  Not good enough..
HELP! 

Peace,
Gillian


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## Weapon-X (Jul 9, 2003)

*re*

i beleave the deadilest spider in the world is the sydney funnelweb- atrax robustus(the males are also 10 times? more potent than the females which is strange) .Steve Nunn would know for sure, the Brazilian wandering is quite deadly also(sorry forgot the scientific name, Phoneynuetra Nigr...?)--Jeff


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## Poecilotheria (Jul 9, 2003)

I think the sydney funnel web is the third, and the top 10 are all funnelwebs. Not sure on the brazilian wanderer but I think its (Phoneutria fera or ferox.) P. nigriventer is a really nice brown with a little white. Nice genera.
Steve


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## Poecilotheria (Jul 9, 2003)

BTW, I got bit a a daddy long legs when I was little while I was playing with it. They don't even have venom, their harvestman, not even spiders.
Steve


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## TarantuChimp (Jul 9, 2003)

This is the same species I have in my garage, they are definatly DDL spiders and not harvestmen.

I beleive that they are called Pholcus phalangioides only through looking it up in a book.

Olly


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## AllenG (Jul 9, 2003)

Gillian the Daddy long legs being the most venomous spider in the world is a myth..if you search you would find that there are like 2 so called daddy long legs, and one isn't venomous and the other they have never bothered to test.   So search for Daddy long legs venom on the web and you will find it is an urban legend.  Probably started by an arachnophobic to keep their kids from touching spiders  

I think it would be sydney funnel or maybe wandering spider...probably sydney funnel( i heard their bite is so strong they can punch through a leather boot . )


about D.L.legs venom

http://spiders.ucr.edu/daddylonglegs.html
http://www.rochedalss.qld.edu.au/spider/daddy.htm
http://www.museum.vic.gov.au/spiders/myths1.html


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## Weapon-X (Jul 9, 2003)

*re*

yeah i'm pretty sure it was the sydney funnel web or the other funnelweb i think it was called atrax formidabilis ? also steve how did you get bit by a daddy long legs if they can't puncture your skin???


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## Weapon-X (Jul 9, 2003)

*as far as most venomous tarantula...*

i would have to go with some the old world t's perhaps S. calciatum, or a poecilotheria , haploman had a post about being bitten by a p. ornata juvie and it had serious effects imagine an adult, also when darrin got nailed by that female P. regalis did'nt sound too fun, but then again i hear a guy got bit by a sling c. shioedtei and where it had bit him turned black, mainly it depends upon the person, but it would'nt be a pleasent experience anyhow...


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## Vayu Son (Jul 9, 2003)

*><*

its not Phoeneutria fera, its Hadronyche infensa, a funnel web from aussie.  Them north american spids dont even get on the top ten.

As for Ts I would probably say the whole damned family of Stromatopelmiinae(which includes Heteroscodra and Stromatopelma), but who really knows.

also, daddy long legs isnt really a spider, but a harvestman. Still an arachnid though.

see this threads: http://www.arachnopets.com/arachnob...=9517&perpage=15&highlight=atrax&pagenumber=1 

and   http://www.arachnopets.com/arachnoboards/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10093&highlight=atrax

-V


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## Poecilotheria (Jul 9, 2003)

I was about 8 years old, I felt a pinch when I was holding it, so I guessed it bit me.
Steve


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## Tamara (Jul 9, 2003)

I believe the picture above is actually a spider, not a daddy long legs/harvestman. Harvestmen are distinguished by not having a constriction between their head and abdomen. The photo above does, and I think it is a photo of a Long-bodied Cellar Spider, or Pholcus phalangioides (or perhaps another species in this genus). The harvestmen suffer from three big myths: first that they are spiders (they're not), second that they can bite you and are poisonous (they can't and they're not), and third, that if your cow goes missing, you pull off one of their legs and throw it on the ground, and it will point you in the right direction. 
Yes, harvestmen are in the Class Arachnida, but they are Order Opiliones.
As for the most venomous, here's a bit I found on the web:
Of the most poisonous, the Black Widow Spider (Lactrodectus mactans) of North America is the most well known of the so-called deadly spiders. Other members of the Lactrodectus family are found throughout many temperate parts of the           world, such as Australia where it is known as the Red Back spider and New Zealand where it is known as the Katipo spider._
_The Sydney funnel spider (Atrax robustus) of Australia is often quoted as  being the spider with the most dangerous venom._
On the other hand; according to the Guinness Book of Records the world’s most venomous spiders is the Brazilian wandering spider (Phoneutria nigriventer)._
This spider is believed to have the most active neurotoxic venom of any living spider. Its venom is so potent that only 0.006mg (0.00000021oz) is sufficient to kill a mouse.

So, that info is from a website, not my own firsthand knowledge. Hope this adds more confusion to the age old question of most venomous! 
Oh yes, there was a good thread about a month ago with info on most venomous. It might be worth a search.
Tamara


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## Tamara (Jul 9, 2003)

Oops, Olly
I re-read your statement that you thought the picture IS a spider, somehow I read it differently. Cheers
Tamara


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## Sean (Jul 9, 2003)

whatever tha spider in the pic is it sure is cool looking


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## WYSIWYG (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: as far as most venomous tarantula...*



> _Originally posted by Weapon-X _
> *i would have to go with some the old world t's perhaps S. calciatum, or a poecilotheria , haploman had a post about being bitten by a p. ornata juvie and it had serious effects imagine an adult, also when darrin got nailed by that female P. regalis did'nt sound too fun, but then again i hear a guy got bit by a sling c. shioedtei and where it had bit him turned black, mainly it depends upon the person, but it would'nt be a pleasent experience anyhow... *


Ok, now I gotta know.....

Which "Darrin" was this?  I imagine there may be more than one Darrin in the hobby, though Darrin Vernier comes to mind, especially since I know he's nutty enough to handle some of those more aggressive species.  (I love you, Darrin!)   

As far as I know, Darrin Vernier has had a relatively clean record of getting bitten by spiders, until last year, when a versicolor of all things bit him.  

Is it the same Darrin and WHEN was he bitten by a pokey?

Wysi


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## Steve Nunn (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: re*

Hi,
    As VS mentioned _Hadronyche infensa_ is no.1, closely followed by _H.formidabilis_, then _Atrax robustus_, then _H.versutus_. Australian funnel-webs comprise of the entire top ten most venomous. A most dangerous list is different because it doesn't mean the strongest venom, but the spiders that have  worst effect on large population numbers, such as the _Phoneutria spp._

Cheers,
Steve


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## Vayu Son (Jul 9, 2003)

*><*

WYS, it was darrin vernier, heres the link

http://www.goldenphoenixexotica.com/bite.html

-V


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## WYSIWYG (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: ><*



> _Originally posted by Vayu Son _
> *WYS, it was darrin vernier, heres the link
> 
> http://www.goldenphoenixexotica.com/bite.html
> ...


Poor Darrin.  

Leave it to him to get back on his horse after falling.  I would NOT have tried to pick it up again after all tha!!!!


Wysi


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## Crotalus (Jul 11, 2003)

Its not easy just to say this or that species are the most venomous because other things should be counted for - such as size, closeness to people, commonly found, aggressivness, agility (climb or not) and venom yield in a bite.

Spiders with the most potent venom drop by drop are Latrodectus sp. (black widows) - however the most dangerous for humans are probably the australian hexathelid Atrax robustus (the males are 6 times more potent then females), this species live close to humans in suburbian Sydney. Second that most dangerous for humans are probably Phoneutria sp. (most likely Phoneutria nigriventer - P. fera are a amazon species and are not as frequently in contact with people), these ctenids or wandering spiders are commonly found in cities in Brazil where they bite people frequently with some tragic results. 
More potent then Phoneutria are the other australian funnel webs (hexathlids) such as Hadronyche infensa and H. formidabilis but they are seldom in contact with humans.



/Lelle


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## TarantuChimp (Jul 12, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Tamara _
> *Oops, Olly
> I re-read your statement that you thought the picture IS a spider, somehow I read it differently. Cheers
> Tamara *


No problem, your earlier response has given me some info to, cheers

Olly


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## occitanus (Sep 7, 2003)

*There is one true spider absent from this list that is arguably the World's most venomous spider and that is the Six-eyed Sand/Crab Spider (Sicarius sp.) of southern Africa. Inhabiting southern Zimbabwe, South Africa, Botswana, and Namibia, the species easily disputes both the Atrax and Hydronyche species of Australia. It's cytotoxin is known to cause massive internal bleeding and hemorraging. And there is no antivenom available.

Makes it's relative the Brown Recluse look rather benign. Phoneutria does not compare either. Here is seven pages with info on this shy spider of the sands...*

 Sicarius 1 

 Sicarius 2 

 Sicarius 3 

 Sicarius 4 

 Sicarius 5 

 Sicarius 6 

 Sicarius 7


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## steve055 (Sep 7, 2003)

I think these are the 2 commonly called "daddy long legs"


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## occitanus (Sep 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by steve055 _
> *I think these are the 2 commonly called "daddy long legs"
> 
> 
> ...



The top one looks what they call a wandering harvestman and the bottom one looks to be the true silk-dwelling "Daddy Longlegs." Can't say I know enough about either species to be adamant.


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## Venom (Sep 7, 2003)

Interesting info on those pages, Occitanus. I hadn't known much about Sicarius; if they were really all that bad. Now I will have to do even more research for curiosity's sake. I'll let you know if I find any LD50 or lethality stats.  Oh, and I did some linking, and found an interesting page on Cheiracanthium sp. bites. And those we DO have in the US. 

Here is the page : 

http://www.museums.org.za/bio/spiderweb/bites.htm


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## occitanus (Sep 7, 2003)

Yeah, the Yellow (Golden) Sac Spider inhabits both Old and New World countries. Definitely a spider of medical significance.

A couple of other medically important species worth mentioning would be the Hobo Spider (Tegenaria agrastis) that inhabits northwestern areas of the United States; and the White-Tail Spider (Lampona cylindrata) of Australia. Both possessing toxins that also encourage potential necrosis.


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## Palespider (Sep 11, 2003)

It may not be the most venomous, but from what I've heard/read the most dangerous spider to man would have to be the Phoneutria fera, just because of it's incredible speed and the likelyness of being bitten.

One guy I talked to was too scared to open it's lid to take a picture of it for me because he said it was so aggressive and he's been a dealer for over 20 years.

But, I've had no first hand experience and won't until maybe later this year.

Jim B.


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## Crotalus (Sep 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Palespider _
> *It may not be the most venomous, but from what I've heard/read the most dangerous spider to man would have to be the Phoneutria fera, just because of it's incredible speed and the likelyness of being bitten.
> 
> One guy I talked to was too scared to open it's lid to take a picture of it for me because he said it was so aggressive and he's been a dealer for over 20 years.
> ...


Phoneutria got the largest venom glands of all spiders, very keen to bite and few drybites, multipel strikes and a aggressive nature and a potent neurotoxin makes them highly dangerous.

Transfer these spiders are.. a nightmare.  

/Lelle


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## dennis (Sep 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Crotalus _
> *Phoneutria got the largest venom glands of all spiders, very keen to bite and few drybites, multipel strikes and a aggressive nature and a potent neurotoxin makes them highly dangerous.
> 
> Transfer these spiders are.. a nightmare.
> ...


Well, then why do you take the risk to keep one? (or more, don't know how many you have)


Dennis


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## Crotalus (Sep 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by dennie _
> *Well, then why do you take the risk to keep one? (or more, don't know how many you have)
> 
> 
> Dennis *


Cos im interested in them. I have a few of nigriventer

/Lelle


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## occitanus (Sep 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by dennie _
> *Well, then why do you take the risk to keep one? (or more, don't know how many you have)
> 
> 
> Dennis *





> _Originally posted by Crotalus _
> *Cos im interested in them. I have a few of nigriventer
> 
> /Lelle *




If you actually want to split hairs the same can be said of the L.quinquestriatus and A.australis. One possessing neurocardiotoxin-like venom and the other possessing a venomous cocktail with two highly specialized toxins adapted to be specifically virulent to mammalian animals (including humans). But if you are a responsible and mature arachoenthusiasists then there shouldn't be a problem. And thus far, the hobby has enjoyed smashing success in this particular area.

My personal vote would have to go with Six-eyed Sand-crab Spider (Sicarius sp.) because unlike all the other medically important Araneae, this is the only sole one not possessing an antivenom. The cytotoxin it possesses is highly toxic, at it's destructive worse can cause massive internal bleeding and hemorraging. Luckily, it is a very shy reclusive spider with great temperment. The words aggressive and Sicarius don't even belong in the same vocabulary.


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## Crotalus (Sep 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by occitanus _
> *If you actually want to split hairs the same can be said of the L.quinquestriatus and A.australis. One possessing neurocardiotoxin-like venom and the other possessing a venomous cocktail with two highly specialized toxins adapted to be specifically virulent to mammalian animals (including humans). But if you are a responsible and mature arachoenthusiasists then there shouldn't be a problem. And thus far, the hobby has enjoyed smashing success in this particular area.
> 
> My personal vote would have to go with Six-eyed Sand-crab Spider (Sicarius sp.) because unlike all the other medically important Araneae, this is the only sole one not possessing an antivenom. The cytotoxin it possesses is highly toxic, at it's destructive worse can cause massive internal bleeding and hemorraging. Luckily, it is a very shy reclusive spider with great temperment. The words aggressive and Sicarius don't even belong in the same vocabulary. *


As for Sicarius   - they might have a potent venom but the size and the behavoiur (digged down and not around humans) makes them not that big of a threat. 

Venomous is one thing - dangerous another. 
Atrax robustus and Phoneutria are my vote, both are venomous and highly aggressive, and close to human settlements.

/Lelle


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## Palespider (Sep 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Crotalus _
> *Phoneutria got the largest venom glands of all spiders, very keen to bite and few drybites, multipel strikes and a aggressive nature and a potent neurotoxin makes them highly dangerous.
> 
> Transfer these spiders are.. a nightmare.
> ...


I have several pokies and a very high strung H. maculata. She will run and jump at the nearest object, and is (in my experience) the worst to transfer.

Are Phonuetria much worse than a mac? Just trying to get an idea of what I'm getting into.

Jim B.


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## Crotalus (Sep 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Palespider _
> *I have several pokies and a very high strung H. maculata. She will run and jump at the nearest object, and is (in my experience) the worst to transfer.
> 
> Are Phonuetria much worse than a mac? Just trying to get an idea of what I'm getting into.
> ...


Much worse. Very irrational in behaviour, and pretty good eyesight (atleast it seems that way) makes them very aware of your prescence. Theraphosids can easily (well easy is maybe the wrong word but in lack of a better one) be manipulated into a tube or just put a box over it to secure them. Its very difficult to do that with Phoneuria. They go from zero to 100 in a split second. And they jump too. 
Adding a potent venom to that makes it a bit more nervwrecking.
What species are you getting?

/Lelle


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## Venom (Sep 11, 2003)

Most venomous is relatively simple to determine -  venom potency.

Most dangerous depends on more factors than sheer potency alone. The spider's size, temperament, speed, agility, amount of venom, habitat, and potency all have to be considered. I wouldn't consider the amount of people in the spider's habitat to be part of this equation, since that would be measuring how much of a threat a particular spider is to mankind as a WHOLE, and I am considering how dangerous a particular spider is to one person if they encounter it. The only way it could enter into consideration, is as the likelyhood of an individual to encounter the dangerous spider, in which case you are talking in terms of the threat to the person over an extent of time, not the degree of danger at one encounter. So there are really three kinds of "dangerous" : 

threat to humanity ( or population center ) / time  

threat to individual / time    (  danger of spider  X probability of encounter )

threat to individual once encountered  


At least that's my view on it.


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## Poecilotheria (Sep 11, 2003)

Jeez, Phoneutria? Now theres something I wouldn't understand keeping, just plain dangerous...
Steve


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## Crotalus (Sep 13, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Venom _
> *Most venomous is relatively simple to determine -  venom potency.
> 
> Most dangerous depends on more factors than sheer potency alone. The spider's size, temperament, speed, agility, amount of venom, habitat, and potency all have to be considered. I wouldn't consider the amount of people in the spider's habitat to be part of this equation, since that would be measuring how much of a threat a particular spider is to mankind as a WHOLE, and I am considering how dangerous a particular spider is to one person if they encounter it. The only way it could enter into consideration, is as the likelyhood of an individual to encounter the dangerous spider, in which case you are talking in terms of the threat to the person over an extent of time, not the degree of danger at one encounter. So there are really three kinds of "dangerous" :
> ...


I cant aggree that arachnids, no matter how venomous, are a threat to humanity - after all they are no weapon of massdestruction. 

How dangerous a species are in my opinion are venom potency, venom yield in a bite, how aggressive they are and likely to bite, how many individuals of the species that can be found in a area, and closeness to humans.

/Lelle


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## Poecilotheria (Sep 13, 2003)

I know, but its a huge risk if anyone were to be bitten. There isn't any antivenom in the u.s. I called up poisen control here and they said they had no idea about what I was talking about. How long would you last after a bite from one?
Steve


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## Crotalus (Sep 13, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Poecilotheria _
> *I know, but its a huge risk if anyone were to be bitten. There isn't any antivenom in the u.s. I called up poisen control here and they said they had no idea about what I was talking about. How long would you last after a bite from one?
> Steve *


Poison control? Dont know what that is but here its called Giftinformationscentralen, translated to Venom Information Central. They sad no serum was needed...
I hope I wont have to find out. People dont die at 100% ratio from a bite but there are a great risk. The time and effect of a bite depends alot (as for any venom) on health and age and offcourse the location of the bite. 

/Lelle


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## Palespider (Sep 15, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Crotalus _
> *Much worse. Very irrational in behaviour, and pretty good eyesight (atleast it seems that way) makes them very aware of your prescence. Theraphosids can easily (well easy is maybe the wrong word but in lack of a better one) be manipulated into a tube or just put a box over it to secure them. Its very difficult to do that with Phoneuria. They go from zero to 100 in a split second. And they jump too.
> Adding a potent venom to that makes it a bit more nervwrecking.
> What species are you getting?
> ...


Sounds fun  
I was reading on the net that when they go into their defensive posture they'll actually turn and watch you as you move around. And that they are one of the only species that 'wants' to bite you. Talk about evil ;P

The one I may be getting is said to be in the Ctenidae genus, and he's pretty sure it's a Phoneutria sp., but not possitive on the species. Still researching, haven't decided if it's a good idea yet.

Jim B.


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## Telson (Oct 5, 2003)

My understanding of the matter has always been that the harvestman was the so called "daddy long legs", and that the true spider that usurped that nick name was a European cellar spider, and the rumor was that this cellar spiders venom is the most potent true spider venom per volume, or at least very high on the list, however this spiders fangs are not large enough to penitrate human skin. How much of this is accurate in regard to fact, or even accurate in regard to what version of this rumor is most popular, I couldn't say.

I have been "bit" (or perhaps pinched?) by the harvestman and it hurt a little at the instant it occurred, but not much, and there were absolutely no ill effects afterward. I've never experienced a bite (that I am aware of) from the cellar spider, though I have several of them in my house. I welcome their presence as it is also my understanding that they displace the black widows by taking up the widows prefferred habitat. I'm much happier seeing a cellar spider web in a corner of the kitchen than with a widow web.


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## Crotalus (Oct 5, 2003)

Telson, that is a myth which seems hard to kill.

/Lelle


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## Crotalus (Oct 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Palespider _
> *Sounds fun
> I was reading on the net that when they go into their defensive posture they'll actually turn and watch you as you move around. And that they are one of the only species that 'wants' to bite you. Talk about evil ;P
> 
> ...


Acctually as for any animal they rather run then fight, that goes for every spider I been working with (hmm except maybe my Phormictopus atrichomatus... she had some real issues...). The Phoneutria do bite several times if cornered. I dont know if they "want" to bite you more then any other spider that get defensive but they do get their message out when they get into defense posture with the first two leg pairs straight up and the body slowly moving from side to side.
Gotta love them! 

/Lelle


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## Palespider (Oct 5, 2003)

That's sounds like it would make an interesting video clip Lelle. <hint, hint>

Jim B.


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## bumhead (Feb 24, 2004)

id go with the sydney funnelweb, but thats coz i see them all the time. they have an amazing bite that, whilst im not sure about leather boots, can easily punture your fingernail, mainly due to the downward force when they "bite"  i think there were also a few studies recently that said that mouse spiders (i must apologise for my lack of scientifc names, but im only a beginner) may be almost as deadly as the sydney funnelweb.


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## bumhead (Feb 24, 2004)

that was a female red headed mousey, heres a male. notice how they seem similar to the sydney funnelweb. they believed that many funnelweb bite were actually eastern mouse spiders, they do look similar to the untrained eye. *edit to add* thats actually an eastern mal mousey, should have made that clear


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## Crotalus (Feb 24, 2004)

Both pictures looks like mousespiders, Missulena sp.
And no, they are not as potent as Atrax robustus. However Hadronyche infensa , another funnel web species, are even more potent then A. robustus.

/Lelle


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## Venom (Feb 24, 2004)

I agree they are not nearly as venomous as Atrax, but the few documented cases where someone was bitten by Missulena sp, showed that they can produce Atrax-like symptoms, and even respond to Atrax anti-venom, implying at least a similarity in their venoms.  Due to the rarity of Missulena bites, there has been no large-scale observation of Missulena sp. envenomation symptoms. So we really don't have much information on what their venom contains and is capable of. IMO, though, any Hexathelid deserves a healthy dose of respect.


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## ChoJinn (Feb 24, 2004)

*and the winner is...*

According to Erstellt Tox-Mü Wagner/Kleber Juli 1998 ,

Phoneutria had a .

34 microgram/g LD50 for mice = .00034g/kg LD50.

Atrax had a 

20-35 microgram/g LD50 for mice = .00020 - .00035g/kg LD50



so when it comes to lethal venom, atrax is the worst, usually.

However i would MUCH rather deal with a funnel web than a phoneutria. I've had both P.fera and P.nigriventer and I can't imagine anything more unpredictable and fast. Yeesh.

also, the fingernail an atrax robustus bit through? it belonged to  an infant.

go phoneutria!


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## bumhead (Feb 25, 2004)

what about the northern, or tree dwelling funnel web? i heard there were suspisions that they may be more deadly than the sydney funnelweb.


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## Steve Nunn (Feb 25, 2004)

*Re: and the winner is...*



> _Originally posted by ChoJinn _
> *
> so when it comes to lethal venom, atrax is the worst, usually.
> 
> ...


Hello,
_Atrax_ actually sits at about number three on the most venomous list. Both _ Hadronyche infensa_ and _ Hadronyche formidabilis_ possess more potent venom, in that order. The entire top ten consists of Australian funnel webs.

The funnel webs can also bite through boot leather, this is a documented fact. I can garantee you that I'd sooner deal with _ phoneutria spp._ any day of the week, bites may be frequent, but they rarely, if ever, kill (quote from Dr Raven). Prior to the antivenine, funnel web bites were indeed considered a death sentence.

It's not even a competition 

And once the mouse spider venom is fully researched, I think you'll find the entire top twenty most venomous will all be endemic to Australia.

Cheers,
Steve


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## Crotalus (Feb 25, 2004)

*Re: Re: and the winner is...*



> _Originally posted by Steve Nunn _
> *Hello,
> Atrax actually sits at about number three on the most venomous list. Both  Hadronyche infensa and  Hadronyche formidabilis possess more potent venom, in that order. The entire top ten consists of Australian funnel webs.
> 
> ...


As far as packing, transfer etc I rather deal with funnel webs. I dealt with both. Nothing in the arachnid world can compare to a Phoneutria sets off in a frantic bolt! 
Actually I doubt funnel webs can penetrate a leather boot - not many venomous snakes can do that. If a Crotalus atrox cant get through my Doc Martins - no spider can 

Phoneutria do kill people but not many per year true. However, funnel webs do not kill anyone since the 80ies right? 
Phoneutria ssp. are very common in South America and especially in heavy populated areas in Rio, Sao paolu etc where P. nigriventer occur. So many end up inside houses and people get bitten. 

Its not just a matter on how potent the venom are - more factors have to be considered. How common they are, size, nature of it etc 

/Lelle


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## Steve Nunn (Feb 25, 2004)

*Re: Re: Re: and the winner is...*

Lelle you're talking about danger, not venom potency. I'm talking about venom potency. The only reason nobody has died since the 80's is for one reason only, the production of the antivenine. LD50 testing doesn't mean squat anyway, it never did.

And they have bitten through boot leather my friend, it is documented. This isn't something I found on the net, or heard about on some tv doco, but came from Raven himself, who has described Hadronyche spp. before, the source is as reliable as it gets.

Now you tell me, living where you do (where there is NO FW antivenine), which would you prefer to be bitten by, a funnel web or banana spider???? I know which one I'd go for.... 

Cheers,
Steve


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## Crotalus (Feb 25, 2004)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: and the winner is...*



> _Originally posted by Steve Nunn _
> *Lelle you're talking about danger, not venom potency. I'm talking about venom potency. The only reason nobody has died since the 80's is for one reason only, the production of the antivenine. LD50 testing doesn't mean squat anyway, it never did.
> 
> And they have bitten through boot leather my friend, it is documented. This isn't something I found on the net, or heard about on some tv doco, but came from Raven himself, who has described Hadronyche spp. before, the source is as reliable as it gets.
> ...


Yes but drop by drop is still Latrodectus sp I think. I do think when it comes to a potential lethal animal more then just the venoms potency must be considered. 

You must have bad leather in your boots down there! ;-) I would like to read about that, is there a article about the incident? 

There are no serum for either species in Sweden. But in UK they got Atrax serum, and probably in Germany they got Phoneutria serum.

/Lelle


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## Steve Nunn (Feb 25, 2004)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: and the winner is...*



> _Originally posted by Crotalus _
> *Yes but drop by drop is still Latrodectus sp I think. *


Are you using LD50 as a source? Good to hear that Latrodectus can kill mice quicker, I'll safeguard my gerbils ;P 



> *
> You must have bad leather in your boots down there! ;-) I would like to read about that, is there a article about the incident?
> 
> *


I'll see what I can find out Lelle 

Cheers,
Steve


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## Crotalus (Feb 26, 2004)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: and the winner is...*



> _Originally posted by Steve Nunn _
> *Are you using LD50 as a source? Good to hear that Latrodectus can kill mice quicker, I'll safeguard my gerbils ;P
> 
> 
> ...


No i dont use LD50 - thats why I compared Phoneutria sp. and australian hexathelids as they are most dangerous spiders around. 
And considered not only the venom but other factors aswell.
Its the same arguments when I compare venomous snakes - not just venom potency but a array of factors. I think to be focusing only on venom potency is "old fashioned" , if you know what I mean. 

But do you feel like we talked about this before.. lol ;-)

/Lelle


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## Steve Nunn (Feb 26, 2004)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: and the winner is...*



> _Originally posted by Crotalus _
> *
> But do you feel like we talked about this before.. lol ;-)
> 
> *


LMAO, how many times now??? =D


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## Crotalus (Feb 26, 2004)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: and the winner is...*



> _Originally posted by Steve Nunn _
> *LMAO, how many times now??? =D *


LOL I have lost count 

BTW, do you know if its possible to import arachnids legally from PNG? 

/Lelle


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## G. Carnell (Feb 28, 2004)

i saw a pic of one of those b******ds it had half its lefs up and half on the ground, aggressive little thing, are all "wandering spiders" this dangerous? the DWA in the uk have banned all of these spiders, so i guess i cant get my hands on any anyway


edit:  oops   didnt see that there was more than one page, please disregard this post


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## Crotalus (Feb 29, 2004)

> _Originally posted by George Carnell _
> *i saw a pic of one of those b******ds it had half its lefs up and half on the ground, aggressive little thing, are all "wandering spiders" this dangerous? the DWA in the uk have banned all of these spiders, so i guess i cant get my hands on any anyway
> 
> 
> edit:  oops   didnt see that there was more than one page, please disregard this post *


I´ve seen that show. They put the spider on the table then it bolted down the table and the guy put his foot in front of it. Offcourse it ran up his leg. 
Its just the genus Phoneutria that have a potent venom, most ctenids are harmless such as Cupennius sp. 

/Lelle


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## WeatherStar4000 (Feb 13, 2005)

*Brazilian Wandering Spider*

How venemous would this spider be compared to the Atrax Robustus? The Guiness book of world records quotes this spider as being the most toxic. Only .0006 mg is enough to kill a mouse? I am interested in getting a H. Maculata. Does anyone know how aggressive this particular tarantula is? Can they jump? How bad of a bite would you incur if bitten on a vein or blood vessel? Any suggestions would be helpful!


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## arachnoid (Feb 14, 2005)

Yikes!

I couldn't do this, even if I were experienced and you paid me...

click me


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## Elizabeth (Feb 14, 2005)

WeatherStar4000 said:
			
		

> How venemous would this spider be compared to the Atrax Robustus? The Guiness book of world records quotes this spider as being the most toxic. Only .0006 mg is enough to kill a mouse? I am interested in getting a H. Maculata. Does anyone know how aggressive this particular tarantula is? Can they jump? How bad of a bite would you incur if bitten on a vein or blood vessel? Any suggestions would be helpful!



Your answers, if you couldn't follow them in this thread, are in this thread:

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=35141&page=6&pp=15

(Hint: Guinness Book of World Records is wrong.)


and here for a very nice thread on the H. maculata:

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=17012&page=3&pp=15&highlight=maculata

Enjoy!


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