# Different species...



## Ythier (Jan 24, 2005)

...but they are as like as two peas...don't mix up !  
Greetings,
Eric


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## Steven (Jan 24, 2005)

some very nice colorations on BOTH of them,... 

yummy  :}


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## smalltime (Jan 24, 2005)

So what are the differences Eric, besides the hairyness on the ecuadoriensis


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## Ythier (Jan 24, 2005)

Except of course of some differences in granulation, trichobothrias, etc.. (that I have not looked yet), T.falconensis seems to have two last metasomal segment and telson darker than T.ecuadorensis. There is a clear difference between these black segments and the others in T.falconensis,  while the dark coloration is mre progressive in T.ecuadorensis (last segments dark grey, and the one before dark brown). The metasoma of T.falconensis is also quite thicker than T.ecuadorensis, and T.falconensis seems to be a little bit bigger than T.ecuadorensis.
But it's not very obvious on the pictures...   (except perhaps between the two males for the metasomal coloration)
Greetings,
Eric


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## fusion121 (Jan 24, 2005)

Great pictures Eric. Alot of Tityus species seem to have white spots, do you know if there is an obvious reason for this? Perhaps something in their enviroment it helps them to blend in with?


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## Ythier (Jan 24, 2005)

Yes, many Tityus species are speckled, essentially babies/young, but some adult also (T.ocelote). I don't know why but you are surely right, it is probably for mimicry, for example when I separate the babies of these two species, it's always very difficult to see the babies on the barks.


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## G. Carnell (Jan 24, 2005)

i think your just trying to expand your collection without buying new species!

only joking 
do you catch them yourself?
ive only ever caught euscorpius, which is quite easy, how does this compare?


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## Ythier (Jan 24, 2005)

Hi George,
No I didn't catch these Tityus, I've just catch some T.paraensis and T.sylvestris in french guyana, quite easy to find on trunks during the night (but essentially males). Next summer I will try in this area my new Xenopus flashlight  
As we talked about mimicry, here's a pic of a young, quite visible on the piece of bark because it just molted so it is still pink, but here's a second pic with babies and the coloration they have usually...try to find theses little guys on a piece of bark !  
Greetings,
Eric


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## fusion121 (Jan 24, 2005)

Yes that is very good camouflage , not at all easy to spot.


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## G. Carnell (Jan 24, 2005)

thats the one thing i have against bark scorps
they arnt very agressive 

though the "ill sting that cricket 5 times in 1 microsecond" attitude is nice


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## Brian S (Jan 24, 2005)

Beautiful pics Eric  
I would like to have some Tityus spp in my own collection but they are hard to come by for us.


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## fusion121 (Jan 24, 2005)

I've found C. gracilis, C. bicolor, and T. stigmurus confluenciata to be very agressive when hunting. C. bicolor are especially agressive (defintely the most agressive species I own), I feed them with forceps and they will grab the cricket in mid air, if you don't let go with the forceps they will play tug of war until they get the cricket (I did this for 5 mins once until letting go). It is very dependant on the species though C. limbatus is very cowardly with prey.


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## Nazgul (Jan 24, 2005)

Hi,

nice pics, Eric. Aren´t your adult T. falconensis much bigger than the T. ecuadorensis? My adult T. falconensis females are huge compared to the adult male you sent me. At least 3 times his size! And nearly twice the size of the adult T. ecuadorensis.

Most of the T. ecuadorensis have molted 3 times in my possession and they are now more or less the size of the two adults I recieved from you earlier. Two of them have developed really bulbous chelae. Much more bulbous than the ones of my other specimens (even the two adults, although I considered them to be males) or of your male on the pic above. I haven´t tried to put them together with the adults cause their exoskeleton has hardened enough yet. Do you observe such an obvious dimorphism in your specimens of this species? Your pics above don´t show a dimorphism.

Greetings
Alex


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## Ythier (Jan 24, 2005)

No I didn't see any obvious sexual dimorphism, except perhaps as you said hands a little bit more bulbous in some males, but not all.
It seems that there are big differences in sizes and morphology of the adult males, I have also (in both species) some males which are 2 times the size of some other males.
I think I already sent you this pics, but anyway, here's for example two adult males of the same brood.
Greetings,
Eric


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## Ythier (Dec 10, 2006)

Hi,
OK the thread is old but I just want to inform people keeping those "_T.cf.ecuadorensis_" that they were misidentified by me.
Actually it is a new species which has just been identified by Lourenço as _Tityus ythieri_  
The paper will be published soon in the Ent. Mit. Zool. Museum Hamburg.
Cheers
Eric


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## G. Carnell (Dec 10, 2006)

hahahahahahhah 

congratulations Eric   your name goes down in history!


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## fusion121 (Dec 10, 2006)

Ythier said:


> Hi,
> OK the thread is old but I just want to inform people keeping those "_T.cf.ecuadorensis_" that they were misidentified by me.
> Actually it is a new species which has just been identified by Lourenço as _Tityus ythieri_
> The paper will be published soon in the Ent. Mit. Zool. Museum Hamburg.
> ...



That's really great Eric, the name sounds good too:clap:


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## SOAD (Dec 10, 2006)

HAHAHAHHAHAHA  
Congrats Eric!


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## EAD063 (Dec 10, 2006)

Excellent Eric,  congrats on your find. :clap: What was the process to figure this all out, as I see you've had the species for a while, also, have you bred them?


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## hamfoto (Dec 10, 2006)

Wow! Eric...very cool!!!

Congrats,
Chris


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## Brian S (Dec 10, 2006)

Brian S said:


> Beautiful pics Eric
> I would like to have some Tityus spp in my own collection but they are hard to come by for us.


Amazing how times have changed!!!


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## pandinus (Dec 11, 2006)

that is absolutely fantastic Eric, you achieved what all of us would kill for, to have a spp. named after them.


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## Ythier (Dec 11, 2006)

thanks, and I'm quite happy that it is a Tityus


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## telow (Dec 11, 2006)

very nice eric now i have to get a few :clap: 
to add to my collection


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## Tityus (Dec 11, 2006)

Hi Eric Very nice name :clap:


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## Michiel (Dec 11, 2006)

Yep, 

That's must feel good. A new Tityusspecies with your lastname!!! Cool Eric! I know you wrote you found predominantly males in FG, but did you get any females at all?? I am reall jeaulous of the fact that you caught T.silvestris!! Where in FG where you? Close to the Surinam border? I have a few localities of T.paraensis in Suriname and of B.granulatus. Both species have been found near the FGborder (the easternborder)......
Congrats with your new findings and the tityus named after you!!! :worship: :worship: 
Greets, Michiel


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## SimplengGarapal (Dec 11, 2006)

Congrats Eric!  Now to get a few this march!  haha!


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## Ythier (Dec 11, 2006)

Michiel said:


> I know you wrote you found predominantly males in FG, but did you get any females at all?? I am reall jeaulous of the fact that you caught T.silvestris!! Where in FG where you? Close to the Surinam border? I have a few localities of T.paraensis in Suriname and of B.granulatus. Both species have been found near the FGborder (the easternborder)......


Hi Michiel,
Both last times I went I Guyana I didn't find much Tityus, only some wanderring males, don't know why, but I went here two times ten years ago and I found many Tityus, both sexes, essentially T.paraensis (very common in the three guyanas) some specimens of a non identified species, and T.sylvestris. All specimens were found in center of Guyana (Saül), I didn't find any Tityus near Surinam border (but they're here also of course), only terrestrial spp such as Brotheas, Hadrurochactas and other Chactids.
I think it doesn't matter to have localities or not, you can have a locality and do not find anything, and you can find plenty of scorpions in an unknown locality. Very often, known localities (in litterature) are pillaged by collectors or dealers and it is better to look somewhere else.
Cheers
Eric


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## skinheaddave (Dec 11, 2006)

Eric,

Why would Lourenco name a scorpion after French film actor Oliver Ythier?  Seems odd to me. 

Cheers,
Dave


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## Nazgul (Dec 11, 2006)

Hi Dave,

you are wrong, Lourenco didn´t choose the name in honour of some unknown actor (which would be odd indeed). Actually he wants to honour the famous ethnology professor Jean Mercier Ythier.


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## Ythier (Dec 11, 2006)

yeah hopefully I'm not the only one bearing this bizarre name


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## skinheaddave (Dec 11, 2006)

Nazgul said:


> Actually he wants to honour the famous ethnology professor Jean Mercier Ythier.


Ah!!!!!! Well then that makes perfect sense.  

Cheers,
Dave


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## cacoseraph (Dec 11, 2006)

this seems like a good time to ask..


how do you pronounce Ythier?

i kind of guess "it - ee - AY"?
but i *think* it could also be like "why - tee - AY"

and while we are at it, how would the species name go?

"it - ee - ay - aye"?


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## Ythier (Dec 12, 2006)

cacoseraph said:


> how do you pronounce Ythier? and while we are at it, how would the species name go?


I think it could be something like "it - ee - yeah", and the species "it - ee - yeah - ree"


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## Nazgul (Dec 12, 2006)

Hi,

I´m not sure, but aren´t specific epithetons pronounced in latinized form? Like for example "smithi" being pronounced "smitti"?

Eric, don´t complain about your family name, it´s better to have a unique name than a too common one; and Ythier sounds really nice.


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## Michiel (Dec 12, 2006)

I think it doesn't matter to have localities or not, you can have a locality and do not find anything, and you can find plenty of scorpions in an unknown locality. Very often, known localities (in litterature) are pillaged by collectors or dealers and it is better to look somewhere else.
Cheers
Eric[/QUOTE]

Yep is true! You never know for sure what to find...locality or not...But that's the thrill..


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## Ythier (Dec 12, 2006)

Nazgul said:


> I´m not sure, but aren´t specific epithetons pronounced in latinized form? Like for example "smithi" being pronounced "smitti"?


Mmm...sorry I do not understand what you mean


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## Nazgul (Dec 12, 2006)

Hi Eric,

I mean aren´t specific epithetons being pronounced the way Romans would have pronounced the word. E.g. if some animal is named in honour of some guy named Ythier, you don´t speak the epitheton ythieri the way it is pronounced in it´s original language French like "it - ee - yeah - ree" but the way Latin speaking people would have pronounced it "it - ee - ree". Other examples: the English smithi being pronounced "smitti" without the "th".


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## Michiel (Dec 12, 2006)

Well,

This is whole new discussion. The famous emperor Caesar is called Ceezer in English. But the C is pronounced as K "ae" is not "ee" but "aai", so it would be Kaaisar. Almost like the German Keiser. In Latin scorpion names, you see the "i" after a name: ythieri, polisi, gertschi and after a localilty "ensis": Falconensis, chilensis, paraensis. Futhermore, there is spelling according to the nomenclature commitee. Brachypelma boehmei, the guy who discovered it is called Bohme, but the commitee says: we cannot spell it as Bohmei, but as boehmei......Interesting stuff.


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## Nazgul (Dec 12, 2006)

Hi Michiel,

as far as I know the regarding person is a German guy named Böhme. Because there´s no letter "ö" in Latin (and most other languages neither) it has to be changed to "oe".

But how to pronounce the epithetons hasn´t much to do with the rules of the ICZN. At least I don´t think it´s mentioned in the code how to pronounce.


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## Ythier (Dec 12, 2006)

OK Alex I understand now...but I don't know !   In France we usually say "smi-tti", and would say "it-ee-yeah-ree", I think it depends on country pronounciation no ? Are english people here pronounce "smi-thi" with the "th", or "smi-tti" ? And Alex for exemple with your name (Tietz) in France we would pronounce "Tee-yeah-tzee" but I'm sure the spelling for you and English people would be "Tee-tzee" no ?
Eric


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## Nazgul (Dec 12, 2006)

Hi Eric,

I don´t know for sure either. In Germany "smithi" is pronounced "smitti" but on the other hand "cambridgei" usually is pronounced like the English name plus an "i", namely "cambridge - ee" (not "cum - brid - ge - ee" as one would expect). Then again "boehmei" is pronounced "bo - ay - me - ee" not like the German name "Böhme" (although that´s depending alot on the person who says the epitheton). I was always wondering if there´s a rule to follow or not. Does anyone know?

You are right, tietzi would be tee - tsee, though unfortunately I haven´t come across such an epitheton yet .

@Michiel: by the way, Caesar had become a Roman title after the regency of Gaius Iulius Caesar and the German title "Kaiser" and the Russian title "Czar" are descending from it.


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## Nikos (Dec 12, 2006)

Ever heard a greek speak english? (like in that movie my big fat greek wedding)
well thats the way the scientific names should be pronounced.


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## fusion121 (Dec 12, 2006)

I've never heard consistent pronunciation of Zoological latinised names, e.g. with Pandinus some people pronounce it:

Pan-din-us

and some 

Pan-dii-nus

I think there probably are a set of rules for correct pronunciation but I've never met anyone who knows them.


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## Nazgul (Dec 12, 2006)

Hi,

I did a search and came across this: http://www.saltspring.com/capewest/pron.htm . As far as I understand the pronounciation is somewhat depending on the country indeed. It also means Pan-dii-nus is the correct form.


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## pandinus (Dec 12, 2006)

fusion121 said:


> I've never heard consistent pronunciation of Zoological latinised names, e.g. with Pandinus some people pronounce it:
> 
> Pan-din-us
> 
> ...


i've also heard pan-deen-us


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## fusion121 (Dec 12, 2006)

Nazgul said:


> Hi,
> 
> I did a search and came across this: http://www.saltspring.com/capewest/pron.htm . As far as I understand the pronounciation is somewhat depending on the country indeed. It also means Pan-dii-nus is the correct form.



Interesting link, though I'm not sure I can be bothered to learn all the rules


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## Thaedion (Dec 12, 2006)

WOW   you all get into very deep topics. I'm just glad to know that my Emperor is really a Pandinus Imperator. But now I have to worry about how to PRONOUNCE it  And I thought my OCD was bad   just kidding .

It is good to know though. I'm really into getting thing 'right' for my own benefit. My OCD is under control, I'm not impulsed to go out and take a Latin class anymore.

What about a thread with audio uploads to 'see' / hear how others pronounce these words? Might be interesting to hear Latin spoken with specific geographical accents to it.


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## Michiel (Dec 13, 2006)

Nazgul said:


> Hi Michiel,
> 
> as far as I know the regarding person is a German guy named Böhme. Because there´s no letter "ö" in Latin (and most other languages neither) it has to be changed to "oe".
> 
> ...


*No it doesn't, but I didn't say it was did I?*
@Michiel: by the way, Caesar had become a Roman title after the regency of Gaius Iulius Caesar and the German title "Kaiser" and the Russian title "Czar" are descending from it. 
*Interesting! did not know that*


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## Michiel (Dec 13, 2006)

Pandinus imperator is latinized Greek. Pan meaning forest, din meaning terrible (as in dinosaurus, terrible lizard) and imperator meaning emperor. So the name means terrible forest emperor litterally........
A lot of names are in latinized Greek..........


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## Nazgul (Dec 13, 2006)

Michiel said:


> *No it doesn't, but I didn't say it was did I?*...


Hi Michiel,

no you didn´t  . But I thought that´s why you came up with it.


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## Nikos (Dec 13, 2006)

Michiel said:


> Pandinus imperator is latinized Greek. Pan meaning forest, din meaning terrible (as in dinosaurus, terrible lizard) and imperator meaning emperor. So the name means terrible forest emperor litterally........
> A lot of names are in latinized Greek..........


Pan doesn't mean forest in greek.
Pan was the god of forests, a from waist down goat like dude with a huge errected "thing"

I'm sure you have seen this god in greek vacation cards, calendars and stuff tourists like...


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## PIter (Dec 13, 2006)

vardoulas said:


> I'm sure you have seen this god in greek vacation cards, calendars and stuff tourists like...


Sure have


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## SimplengGarapal (Dec 13, 2006)

I think it everything would really depend on ones ethnicity.  We cannot have a universal pronounciation of these scientific names.  Example would be leptochelys - some would say lep-to-ke-lis or others would say lep-to-che-lis.  Its really interesting to note these words but as long as we understand what others say or mean. It wouldn't matter.

We do have a ruling for the Filipino language: However it is pronounced, that's how you write it, and however it is written, that's how you would read it. If an english word doesn't have a Filipino equivalent. Example: Ballpen - bolpen, computer - kompyuter, Internet - we still write internet.

However, we can shift from the Filipino pronounciation to the English/American way of writing and saying things with ease(part of the school curriculum is the english language).

Confusing?  Definitely...hehe


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## Michiel (Dec 14, 2006)

vardoulas said:


> Pan doesn't mean forest in greek.
> Pan was the god of forests, a from waist down goat like dude with a huge errected "thing"
> 
> I'm sure you have seen this god in greek vacation cards, calendars and stuff tourists like...


Hi Vardoulas,

Not even in ancient Greek? I read this in P. de Vosjoli general care of T's and scorps.
But since you are from Greece, you should know best, I believe you offcourse.
Thanks! 

Alex,
no this wasn't my angle  I am just interested in Latin and in the nomeclature thing
Greets you all.


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## Charlie_Scorp (Dec 14, 2006)

Not sure if anyone is interested in etymology enough to buy a book but I would certainly recommend this one, especially for those involves with science in any way. Really useful I think...


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## Charlie_Scorp (Dec 14, 2006)

Ive asked for this as a Christmas present for and totally coincidently just found sitting on the desk in a bedroom!! I must confess I had a quick browse and its not really what I hoped it would be and whilst I think it will be an interesting read, it certainly will not make a great reference.

This however certainly does..

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...UTF8&coliid=I2K1PZM6YYM2B6&colid=D3I4ACAQ7I9D


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## cacoseraph (Dec 14, 2006)

Ythier said:


> I think it could be something like "it - ee - yeah", and the species "it - ee - yeah - ree"


thanks man!

i have been wondering since i joined the site


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## Nikos (Dec 15, 2006)

Michiel said:


> Hi Vardoulas,
> 
> Not even in ancient Greek? I read this in P. de Vosjoli general care of T's and scorps.
> But since you are from Greece, you should know best, I believe you offcourse.
> ...


im not good at ancient greek but since it was a god name i dont think it would have a different meaning anyway.
Pan was one of the gods who protected the forests (among others) so it makes sence what you mentioned above


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## Ythier (Jul 26, 2007)

Hi,
For interested people : http://perso.orange.fr/eycb/scorpions/Tityus%20ythieri.pdf
Cheers
Eric


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## Mark Newton (Jul 26, 2007)

:wall: Nice one Eric... d/l the paper for my collection.  How do you pronounce your name...yitha, yitheir.....:wall:


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## Ythier (Jul 26, 2007)

Mark Newton said:


> :wall: Nice one Eric... d/l the paper for my collection.  How do you pronounce your name...yitha, yitheir.....:wall:


Lol, you can find the answer on the 3rd page of this thread


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## Mark Newton (Jul 26, 2007)

Crikey...I still cant pronounce it....


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## Ythier (Jul 26, 2007)

OK let me 1-2 years and I will tell you the pronounciation in Australia around a Foster


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## Mark Newton (Jul 26, 2007)

Ythier said:


> OK let me 1-2 years and I will tell you the pronounciation in Australia around a Foster



that would be cool....but after a session I'll be back to where I started, not being able to pronounce yither......:?


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## Ythier (Jul 26, 2007)

trust me, alcohol helps to speak French (especially red wine ok, but you have also some great wines in Australia)


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## Michiel (Jul 27, 2007)

Mark,

Etheaay or Eatjay would be the best fonetics that I can provide. Eric, is one of the best English speaking Frenchpeople I have met. Most of the French say they only speak French, which I will undoubtetly will experience again since I am in Paris next week. So I will use the phrase: _Parlez lantement s'il vous plait _I quite often I gues. My French is just good enough to get my food and drinks and I can ask simple questions (and understand simple answers, not _Ratatatatatatatatatatatattata _machinegunlike spoken offcourse  ) Will visit the museum of Natural History for sure.


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## Ythier (Jul 27, 2007)

Michiel said:


> one of the best English speaking Frenchpeople I have met.


Hum...so you didn't meet lot of english speaking french people my friend   When I re-read me I find my English awful, too much mistakes !



Michiel said:


> Will visit the museum of Natural History for sure.


Try to visit the "Zoothèque" (under the Evolution gallery), one of the biggest spp collection in the world, it is very impressive.


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