# Masochist Tarantula?!?



## BatGirl (Aug 5, 2010)

OK - this is too weird even for me. 

I've caught one of my tarantulas dangling from the screen on top of her cage by one leg, more than once in the middle of the night. Then I found one of her legs that had apparently broken off last night during her weird masochistic manchinations. :barf:

She seems all right - just offed a cricket and nothing is leaking or anything - but anybody else have one of their babies doing this self-obliteration stuff?!?


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## Julia (Aug 5, 2010)

Considering that tarantulas have a memory span of about a second long, she has no way to equate a broken leg with her wandering shenanigans.  Time to replace that screen with plexiglass.


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## xhexdx (Aug 5, 2010)

Julia said:


> Considering that tarantulas have a memory span of about a second long, she has no way to equate a broken leg with her wandering shenanigans.  *Time to replace that screen with plexiglass*.


Actually, it's time to decrease the amount of space between the substrate and lid.

Not that BatGirl will read this...she likes to ignore people who know what they're talking about.


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## malevolentrobot (Aug 5, 2010)

xhexdx said:


> Actually, it's time to decrease the amount of space between the substrate and lid.


i'm going to quote since someone beat me to replying faster.

there, now she'll see it


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## Julia (Aug 5, 2010)

xhexdx said:


> Actually, it's time to decrease the amount of space between the substrate and lid.


Well, she didn't mention if the tarantula in question was arboreal or terrestrial.  If it's arboreal, then there's no need to add substrate.  Either way though, great suggestion.


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## Hobo (Aug 5, 2010)

BatGirl said:


> OK - this is too weird even for me.
> 
> I've caught one of my tarantulas dangling from the screen on top of her cage by one leg, more than once in the middle of the night. Then I found one of her legs that had apparently broken off last night during her weird masochistic manchinations. :barf:
> 
> She seems all right - just offed a cricket and nothing is leaking or anything - but anybody else have one of their babies doing this self-obliteration stuff?!?


This is sort of unrelated but...

I remember reading a thread about an OBT that slowly started eating it's own legs for seemingly no reason. It kept going until it only had 3, then died. There was another user that linked his thread to that thread where he experienced the same thing with his OBT. It kinda fits in with your self-obliteration thing. I can't find that thread anywhere... anyone know what I'm talking about?


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## xhexdx (Aug 5, 2010)

Julia said:


> Well, she didn't mention if the tarantula in question was arboreal or terrestrial.  If it's arboreal, then there's no need to add substrate.  Either way though, great suggestion.


Good point I hadn't thought of.  Maybe the OP would be kind enough to tell us what species this is.

From her profile:

---------------------------------
My Inverts & Other Pets 
Current:
--------
Lady Romana: Chilean Rose Hair - Mature Female
Ahsoka: Guyana Pink Toe - Mature Female
Maid Marian - Honduras Curly Hair - Mature Female

*Old World Tarantulas:
Leela: Burmese Cobalt Blue - Mature Female


*crise: une tarentule vieux monde peut entraîner la mort dans de rares cas. 

---------------------------------
75% chance it's terrestrial. 

Gotta love how she puts the whole 'death in rare cases' in French to try and fool us.


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## Shell (Aug 5, 2010)

xhexdx said:


> Good point I hadn't thought of.  Maybe the OP would be kind enough to tell us what species this is.
> 
> From her profile:
> 
> ...




I wonder if it was the *Brumese Cobalt Blue*? Would having 7 legs make it more or less hella deadly?


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## rustym3talh3ad (Aug 5, 2010)

Shell said:


> I wonder if it was the *Brumese Cobalt Blue*? Would having 7 legs make it more or less hella deadly?


i dont know how that was a stab so i will leave this thread alone. but before i do i will raise my hand and say Haplopelma lividum is from Burma. so it in theory would be a Burmese Cobalt Blue.


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## Shell (Aug 5, 2010)

rustym3talh3ad said:


> so it in theory would be a Burmese Cobalt Blue.


Yes I know, it was a reference to an older thread, where it was mis-spelled.


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## xhexdx (Aug 5, 2010)

Shell said:


> Yes I know, it was a reference to an older thread, where it was mis-spelled.


Regardless of location, the common name for H. lividum is Cobalt Blue, not Burmese (or Brumese) Cobalt Blue.

I need to correct myself above where I said there's a 75% chance it's terrestrial...H. lividum is an obligate burrower. :wall:

I should have said there's a 25% chance it's arboreal.

Anyway.


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## Jmugleston (Aug 5, 2010)

Hobo said:


> This is sort of unrelated but...
> 
> I remember reading a thread about an OBT that slowly started eating it's own legs for seemingly no reason. It kept going until it only had 3, then died. There was another user that linked his thread to that thread where he experienced the same thing with his OBT. It kinda fits in with your self-obliteration thing. I can't find that thread anywhere... anyone know what I'm talking about?


I know which thread you are talking about since it was my older male OBT that was doing this. He only started this behavior after he'd been mature for some time before he started doing any sort of autotomy.

In this case it sounds as though the spider was trapped and dropped a leg. As mentioned above, the gap between the screen and the substrate may need to be reduced as well as switching the screen for plexiglass.

I'd remedy the possibly causes as soon as possible in order to reduce the chance if happening again.


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## BatGirl (Aug 5, 2010)

Julia said:


> Well, she didn't mention if the tarantula in question was arboreal or terrestrial.  If it's arboreal, then there's no need to add substrate.  Either way though, great suggestion.


Terrestrial, burrower... and yes she's from Burma. 

None of my others of this same species ever did this peculiar 'meditating' thing, and they used the same type of cage. When I've caught her doing the dangle thing, all I ever had to do was tap the screen and she'd reach up with her other legs and grab the screen and just walk back down. And she never did it before this last molt, just for the past month or so. Maybe the leg was bothering her, because I _was _having problems getting her to eat, but after the loss of the leg she suddenly seems to have an appetite again (hopefully it lasts, too). Finally, she was missing three legs when I rescued her from Pet Company...

Like I said, weird...:wall:


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## xhexdx (Aug 5, 2010)

Just in case others are wondering, H. lividum isn't terrestrial, it's an obligate burrower.


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## BatGirl (Aug 5, 2010)

rustym3talh3ad said:


> ...Burmese Cobalt Blue.


I think I've also been incorrectly using capitalization on the name (besides my typical typo stuff) - I understand from the TKG that all words should be lower case except for any location names (i.e. Burmese cobalt blue, Mexican red knee, Chilean rose hair, etc.). Just thought I'd say that before anyone elase beat me to it


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## Sleazoid (Aug 5, 2010)

Batgirl, is the only person not on your ignore list me and Smallara98 by any chance? If so I am kind of worried I am not on the ignore list.


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## PhobeToPhile (Aug 5, 2010)

Some (or rather, many) of those people on your ignore list are some of the most knwoeldgable from what I've observed. You are shutting yourself off from _alot_ of good advice. As foor your problem...I remember reading somewhere you can avoid the whole "claws caught on mesh" problem by using a different kind of mesh. Had something to do with the way the mesh was fused together or something.


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## Vespula (Aug 5, 2010)

I've heard of other tarantulas doing that. Thank goodness none of mine do that...


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## smallara98 (Aug 5, 2010)

I bet after I tell her some good advice , she will ignore me  This happened to my rosea before , but she fell to her substrate unharmed .


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## cacoseraph (Aug 5, 2010)

it's pretty obvious the spider is not in a good cage setup.  increase sub.


not every spider will hurt itself in the variety of known bad setups... but you have just seen how a small percentage can and will.


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## Chris_Skeleton (Aug 5, 2010)

BatGirl said:


> Terrestrial, burrower... and yes she's from Burma.
> 
> None of my others of this same species ever did this peculiar 'meditating' thing, and they used the same type of cage. When I've caught her doing the dangle thing, all I ever had to do was tap the screen and she'd reach up with her other legs and grab the screen and just walk back down. And she never did it before this last molt, just for the past month or so. Maybe the leg was bothering her, because I _was _having problems getting her to eat, but after the loss of the leg she suddenly seems to have an appetite again (hopefully it lasts, too). Finally, she was missing three legs when I rescued her from Pet Company...
> 
> Like I said, weird...:wall:


Wow I had never seen the ignore list, I had always heard of it, but now I see.

Anyway might be on it after this, but I don't think the loss of the leg had anything to do with it eating again.


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## smallara98 (Aug 5, 2010)

PhobeToPhile said:


> Some (or rather, many) of those people on your ignore list are some of the most knwoeldgable from what I've observed. You are shutting yourself off from _alot_ of good advice. As foor your problem...I remember reading somewhere you can avoid the whole "claws caught on mesh" problem by using a different kind of mesh. Had something to do with the way the mesh was fused together or something.


That is exactly what I dont get . Why are pretty much most of the very well , smart people to give her the best information around , in her ignore list ? She probably doesn't take critisizm well (either do I )


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## malevolentrobot (Aug 5, 2010)

yes, yes... the fabled ignore list, the more you talk about it the more attention she gets that she wanted, just like the whole "brumese cobalt blue" thing. 



smallara98 said:


> That is exactly what I dont get . Why are pretty much most of the very well , smart people to give her the best information around , in her ignore list ? She probably doesn't take critisizm well (either do I )


yeah, but you just proved that you take it better than she does though, by not banning people with good advice and actually reading their replies 

also, i am surprised she claims to see her "brumese cobalt blue" so often. i don't own one, but i was under the impression lividum were hardcore burrowers that made the term "pet hole", as in be lucky you see them out of their hole once in a great while. thus back to the improper set up replies being correct, y/y?


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## smallara98 (Aug 5, 2010)

malevolentrobot said:


> yes, yes... the fabled ignore list, the more you talk about it the more attention she gets that she wanted, just like the whole "brumese cobalt blue" thing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good point . OP , does your lividum have alot of substrate , or 1" ? I bet im gonna get blocked now .


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## xhexdx (Aug 6, 2010)

malevolentrobot said:


> also, i am surprised she claims to see her "brumese cobalt blue" so often. i don't own one, but i was under the impression lividum were hardcore burrowers that made the term "pet hole", as in be lucky you see them out of their hole once in a great while. thus back to the improper set up replies being correct, y/y?


This is true, but if you go out at night, you can usually catch them wandering around or at the mouth of their burrow.

If you have them housed improperly, you can see them any time you want.


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## malevolentrobot (Aug 6, 2010)

xhexdx said:


> This is true, but if you go out at night, you can usually catch them wandering around or at the mouth of their burrow.
> 
> If you have them housed improperly, you can see them any time you want.


 i stand corrected. i assumed it was far less, and thus automatically jumped to poor husbandry on her part.

actually, that sounds like half of my Ts, especially the rosea, who has dug herself quite the nice hole. she has yet to come out, so i gave up waiting and just started buying more Ts  but i have been told she will come out at night and my bf frequently sees her when he flips on the kitchen light after i've long since gone to sleep.


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## BatGirl (Aug 6, 2010)

*bad leg?*



cacoseraph said:


> it's pretty obvious the spider is not in a good cage setup.  increase sub...


She has deep substrate, got this nice deep tunnel she hides in and webbs up the entrance to most of the time, never see her at all in the day...

At night she will occasionally be observed 'roaming' the cage (presummably looking for Max, my old male Burmese cobalt blue that used to be in the cage next to her before he died of old age, er, fell apart - sheesh - that she used to tease with her tapping) and she climbs well on the glass sides and screen top. The distance she would 'fall' if she just let go is only about 5-6 inches (there's a slope to the substrate) - about what she's always had for years...

The leg, upon closer look, seems to have damage at a couple of the joints besides where it broke loose. I'll observe her to see if now that it's 'off', if she still behaves in the strange dangling at night manner.

later...:worship:


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## Jmugleston (Aug 6, 2010)

If the spider was hanging from a single leg, it is not surprising to hear there was damage elsewhere on the limb. Since the joints are weaker than the segments, you'd expect the damage to be there.

Though a longing for an old mate is unlikely, by adjusting your husbandry you eliminate the risk of another injury. Is it worth the risk to wait it out when you know there is a potential hazard in the cage? 

Instead you may want to switch the screen for a different cover and you don't have to worry about her playing Tarzan anymore.


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## Moltar (Aug 6, 2010)

The leg was probably lost _because_ she was dangling from it. That isn't something she was doing on purpose. Screen lids can trap a T's scopulae and/or tarsal claws, causing them to stay on the lid until they become exhausted or lose their grip and then hang there until they either wriggle loose or they damage the leg in such a way that they fall free.

A) You _must_ fix this condition. A plexiglass lid with ventilation holes is the best solution. If not that you can try to treat the lid in some way that closes up the gaps in the screen. Probably more trouble than it's worth.

B) If you find a T dangling from one foot as mentioned above, you should _immediately_ get it freed and inspect it for damage. In addition to potential leg/body damage it is a given that this T is probably severely exhausted and stressed, even to the point of being life threatening. Treat it as you would an injured T, it may not need ICU but it absolutely needs quiet and dark and fresh water.


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## smallara98 (Aug 6, 2010)

Moltar said:


> The leg was probably lost _because_ she was dangling from it. That isn't something she was doing on purpose. Screen lids can trap a T's scopulae and/or tarsal claws, causing them to stay on the lid until they become exhausted or lose their grip and then hang there until they either wriggle loose or they damage the leg in such a way that they fall free.
> 
> A) You _must_ fix this condition. A plexiglass lid with ventilation holes is the best solution. If not that you can try to treat the lid in some way that closes up the gaps in the screen. Probably more trouble than it's worth.
> 
> B) If you find a T dangling from one foot as mentioned above, you should _immediately_ get it freed and inspect it for damage. In addition to potential leg/body damage it is a given that this T is probably severely exhausted and stressed, even to the point of being life threatening. Treat it as you would an injured T, it may not need ICU but it absolutely needs quiet and dark and fresh water.


I think you have a good point about all of that . A question im stumped on is the MM thing ? Female ts would not wander aorund looking for a Male . That is the males job .


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## Moltar (Aug 6, 2010)

MM's do it more because MM's wander constantly in search of a mate. Females will do it too just because they're exploring their environment. Perhaps they don't like the environment and sense a potential way out.


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## jebbewocky (Aug 6, 2010)

Moltar said:


> MM's do it more because MM's wander constantly in search of a mate. Females will do it too just because they're exploring their environment. Perhaps they don't like the environment and sense a potential way out.


Or they're hungry, looking for food, or feel like a stroll.  My immature female LP will walk around her tank occassionally.  Not often, but it happens.


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## cacoseraph (Aug 8, 2010)

BatGirl said:


> She has deep substrate, got this nice deep tunnel she hides in and webbs up the entrance to most of the time, never see her at all in the day...
> 
> At night she will occasionally be observed 'roaming' the cage (presummably looking for Max, my old male Burmese cobalt blue that used to be in the cage next to her before he died of old age, er, fell apart - sheesh - that she used to tease with her tapping) and she climbs well on the glass sides and screen top. The distance she would 'fall' if she just let go is only about 5-6 inches (there's a slope to the substrate) - about what she's always had for years...
> 
> ...


yes, it sounds perfect except for the part where she gets mangled =P

if the leg keeps leaking you might have to pop it... but that's usually only needful for a bad leak, not a possible drip or two


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## Musicwolf (Aug 9, 2010)

malevolentrobot said:


> also, i am surprised she claims to see her "brumese cobalt blue" so often. i don't own one, but i was under the impression lividum were hardcore burrowers that made the term "pet hole", as in be lucky you see them out of their hole once in a great while. thus back to the improper set up replies being correct, y/y?





xhexdx said:


> This is true, but if you go out at night, you can usually catch them wandering around or at the mouth of their burrow.
> 
> If you have them housed improperly, you can see them any time you want.



I can see mine any time I like . . . . she has 8 inches of substrate, but set up her cave on top in the corner behind the hide on night 1. She only moves around at night, and then not a ton. Eating well so far, and looks GREAT!

Admittedly, it's only been a week and a half, but she hasn't attempted burrowing once.

Now, I live in Florida which is obviously very humid . . . and I don't believe she had a chance to burrow before I took her home . . . at least I know she didn't at the LPS. Perhaps because of these circumstances she'll continue to live as a terrestrial?


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## malevolentrobot (Aug 9, 2010)

Musicwolf said:


> I can see mine any time I like . . . . she has 8 inches of substrate, but set up her cave on top in the corner behind the hide on night 1. She only moves around at night, and then not a ton. Eating well so far, and looks GREAT!
> 
> Admittedly, it's only been a week and a half, but she hasn't attempted burrowing once.
> 
> Now, I live in Florida which is obviously very humid . . . and I don't believe she had a chance to burrow before I took her home . . . at least I know she didn't at the LPS. Perhaps because of these circumstances she'll continue to live as a terrestrial?


i'd say yours hasn't acclimated to its enclosure entirely would be the reason and that given more time will probably begin burrowing once it feels comfortable to do so, but thats me hazarding a guess. as stated above i don't own H. lividum personally.


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## Musicwolf (Aug 9, 2010)

malevolentrobot said:


> i'd say yours hasn't acclimated to its enclosure entirely would be the reason and that given more time will probably begin burrowing once it feels comfortable to do so, but thats me hazarding a guess. as stated above i don't own H. lividum personally.


Yeah, I know that's the most likely explanation . . . still, every day she spends in her "topside" burrow raises my hopes a little


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## BatGirl (Oct 21, 2010)

*October Update...*



cacoseraph said:


> yes, it sounds perfect except for the part where she gets mangled =P
> 
> if the leg keeps leaking you might have to pop it... but that's usually only needful for a bad leak, not a possible drip or two


UPDATE on Leela:

Everything back to normal now, no leaks, no 'dangling' etc. - she just stays in the burrow and ventures out at night (occasionally, if during the day I see that her burrow opening is 'open' <not webbed-up> I'll send in a cricket, see a flurry of fur as she nails it, and have a nice chuckle...). Still same cage w/screen top and seems not to have any problems walking across it. Could've been a fluke that she somehow got snagged that one time, but again - I've seen her do that dangling act before her 'accident' and she was never 'stuck' - I'd tap on the screen, she's always reach up, grab the screen and move on. Maybe she fell asleep dangling that one time or something and overstressed the leg - I'm just glad she 'got over' that 'dangling' thing 

Possibly she just finally got over missing Max (my MM Burmese cobalt blue that passed away...) and has stopped her 'roaming' bit. Yes, the good ol' days - they'd be about an inch apart with only the glazing of each tank seperating them, both pressed hard against the glass, and she's be just tapping away - quite distracting for me! Never saw him tap, he just did the roaming thing until she lured him over. She was probably the working girl type (assertive) and he was perhaps the stay at home dad type (lazy), heh, heh.


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## Shell (Oct 21, 2010)

BatGirl said:


> Possibly she just finally got over missing Max (my MM Burmese cobalt blue that passed away...)


Well isn't that sweet  That must be it, since you know, tarantulas feel emotions like we do. :wall:


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## AbraCadaver (Oct 21, 2010)

Chris_Skeleton said:


> That's not fair, I want on that list. Oh well, I'm on Dawgpounds
> 
> And the whole missing Max thing is priceless... unbelievable


Perhaps the brumese cobalt blues have highly developed emotions


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## Shell (Oct 21, 2010)

AbraCadaver said:


> Perhaps the brumese cobalt blues have highly developed emotions


Well, we do know that they are hella deadly


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## curiousme (Oct 22, 2010)

BatGirl said:


> UPDATE on Leela:
> 
> Everything back to normal now, no leaks, no 'dangling' etc. - she just stays in the burrow and ventures out at night (occasionally, if during the day I see that her burrow opening is 'open' <not webbed-up> I'll send in a cricket, see a flurry of fur as she nails it, and have a nice chuckle...). Still same cage w/screen top and seems not to have any problems walking across it. Could've been a fluke that she somehow got snagged that one time, but again - I've seen her do that dangling act before her 'accident' and she was never 'stuck' - I'd tap on the screen, she's always reach up, grab the screen and move on. Maybe she fell asleep dangling that one time or something and overstressed the leg - I'm just glad she 'got over' that 'dangling' thing


She most likely hasn't 'gotten over' anything.  IF she climbs up to the screen again, she has just as much of a chance of getting stuck again; since you did not heed the advice of changing the lid.  What you saw when you tapped the screen and she moved on, was her getting lucky.  Her getting stuck and dangling was bad luck, not a fluke.  Why do you have a screen lid on a H. _lividum_'s enclosure anyway?  They need more humidity than say a G. _rosea_ which a screen lid could be appropriate for.




> Possibly she just finally got over missing Max (my MM Burmese cobalt blue that passed away...) and has stopped her 'roaming' bit. Yes, the good ol' days - they'd be about an inch apart with only the glazing of each tank seperating them, both pressed hard against the glass, and she's be just tapping away - quite distracting for me! Never saw him tap, he just did the roaming thing until she lured him over. She was probably the working girl type (assertive) and he was perhaps the stay at home dad type (lazy), heh, heh.


If he never tapped back, she had no way to know he was there.  Tarantulas can only see light and dark.  So, they weren't star crossed lovers making goo goo eyes to each other, damning their fate of being separated by the cruelness of the glass.


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## Chris_Skeleton (Oct 22, 2010)

curiousme said:


> If he never tapped back, she had no way to know he was there.  Tarantulas can only see light and dark.  So, they weren't star crossed lovers making goo goo eyes to each other, damning their fate of being separated by the cruelness of the glass.


I see a movie deal here 

_From Burma With Love_

Two star crossed lovers, bound by fate, separated by the cruelness of the glass wall. But things take a turn for the worse and one of the lovers die. So disturbed by the loss, the lonely lover begins to investigate the death of her partner and tries to cross the glass. One thing stands in her way, a woman simply known as Batgirl. When this stranger interrupts the lovers quest for the truth, things get hella deadly......

Spring 2011


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## Salamanderhead (Oct 22, 2010)

> Possibly she just finally got over missing Max (my MM Burmese cobalt blue that passed away...)


Oh god hahahaha...


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## malevolentrobot (Oct 22, 2010)

Chris_Skeleton said:


> I see a movie deal here
> 
> _From Burma With Love_
> 
> ...


this is amazing. oh the things i miss because of doing stupid inventory at work


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## BatGirl (Oct 23, 2010)

*From Burma With Love*



Chris_Skeleton said:


> I see a movie deal here
> 
> _From Burma With Love_
> 
> ...


Very Nice!


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## skinheaddave (Oct 23, 2010)

This has simply got to stop.  People gave advice and it was summarily ignored.   That is unfortunate for the OP, those who took the time to give their advice, and particularly for the T in question.   

Think back to grade school when all the kids would get around and poke fun at an individual.  It didn't matter if they deserved it or not, everyone would join in and it quickly became about being cool, social status and peer pressure .. the content of the criticism meant nothing anymore.  It didn't matter if the kid was being beaten for stealing lunches or laughed at because their parents died ... it was about people making themselves feel big.  This is what I see here.

You'll notice I picked the analogy of grade school.  That is because this is the last time I can recall witnessing such an immature mob mentality.  I would now ask everyone who participated in this thread to pull out their ID.  Take a look at the birthday.  Were you born before the year 2000?  Congratulations, you're officially too bloody old to justify this sort of behaviour. 

I want everyone to take a deep breath in.  Now out.  In.  Out.  Relax.  Think about what you hope to accomplish.  If you genuinely do want to take ignorance and turn it into an willingness to listen and learn, think about how this may be best be accomplished.   Sometimes you need to be frank with people and tell them they are being silly .. but if you keep that pressure on and it becomes about attacking rather than helping then you will never see anything but back-against-the-wall defensiveness.   Sometimes -- and this is something I had to learn -- you need to let the idiots be idiots and let your knowledge speak for itself.   Think of your responses being for the benefit of others reading the thread, rather than the brick wall you are technically trying to instruct.  Sooner or later the brick wall may grow some ears.  

Hopefully that has been a bit of a breather for everyone and everyone can start acting their age.  If not, I have plenty of dunce caps and meter sticks to go around.   I can always demonstrate what being a real bully is all about.

Cheers,
Dave


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## skinheaddave (Oct 23, 2010)

It shouldn't have to be said, but if people feel a need to support my statement or argue it, please contact me via PM.  That statement can be considered a part of my moderation duties and thus shouldn't be discussed publicly.   All further posts in this thread should be strictly on topic.  

Cheers,
Dave


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## BatGirl (Jan 3, 2011)

*She's at it AGAIN !?!*

OK, so Leela molted a week or so ago and now has this itty-bitty interim leg where she broke off the leg doing her 'hanging-out' dangling thing. Been pretty much staying in her cave all the time, acting normal, and I only get to see here once in awhile in the middle of the night once in awhile (other than the flurry of fur I see in her cave when I toss a cricket in - sweet).

Well, last night I caught her dangling by one leg again (crap!!!). All I had to do though is merely tap the side of the cage which seems to awaken her out of her 'trance', and she immediately pulls up to the cage top's screen and begins walking around on it. SO - SHE IS NOT GETTING HER CLAWS 'STUCK' IN THE SCREEN MESH (so, let's move on from THAT excuse, shall we?). I chased her off the screen, down the glass, and onto the substrate ~ crazy spider!

My next guess is perhaps it is a 'sensory deprivation' thing, kind of like when humans 'float' inside a tank in the dark to reach higher planes of consciousness, she is 'floating' in the air by one claw to reach some kind of Tarantula 'nirvana'? (i.e. trying to 'reach her long dead Max', heh, heh... "From Burma with Love" - Part 2) OK, getting romantic again


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## curiousme (Jan 3, 2011)

curiousme said:


> She most likely hasn't 'gotten over' anything.  IF she climbs up to the screen again, she has just as much of a chance of getting stuck again; since you did not heed the advice of changing the lid.  What you saw when you tapped the screen and she moved on, was her getting lucky.  Her getting stuck and dangling was bad luck, not a fluke.  Why do you have a screen lid on a H. _lividum_'s enclosure anyway?  They need more humidity than say a G. _rosea_ which a screen lid could be appropriate for.


I figure I can quote my last bit of advice, since it still holds true.

Just because she wasn't stuck this time, does not mean it cannot happen again.  By keeping that screen lid on it, you are taking the risk of it losing another leg.  If you find that funny or romantic, I do not understand it or your lack of safe care for your pet.  

If you insist on keeping the screen lid, you can wrap part of it in saran wrap and perhaps that will prevent what happened the last time.


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## BatGirl (Jan 3, 2011)

*Dead Horse Alert*



curiousme said:


> Just because she wasn't stuck this time...


OK, _*every single time *_I've caught her 'dangling', all I had to do was tap and she 'moves on' (see previous posts) which seems she was never stuck but just _likes dangling_ - remember, when I rescued her from the pet shop she was already missing three legs (again, see previous posts). Let's look at the 'evidence'... the time I found the leg on the substrate and her missing the leg was not when she was dangling - it was afterwards (i.e. after it broke off during/after one of her 'trance' episodes)...



curiousme said:


> I do not understand it or your lack of safe care...


What I lack is care for, well, you know...


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## ErinKelley (Jan 3, 2011)

Why continue to let her do it?


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## BatGirl (Feb 5, 2011)

*Masochist tendencies...*



ErinKelley said:


> Why continue to let her do it?


Haven't seen her do it since I last woke her out of her 'dangling trance' around the first of the year... she appears to just do it randomly, sometimes going for months at a time before doing it. I'm the same way with the 72-hour fastings I do - sometimes I go for years before feeling the urge to fast again...

I considered putting up a force field across the top of the tank, but the emissions could be more harmful than the loss of a single leg. Perhaps I can spray some 'tarantula off the furniture' spray on the tank top. Also, I've asked her nicely not to do it for it seems to cause damage, but she doesn't seem to care... I believe I need to take her to a psychiatrist and get her on some medication or something. 

What I can't understand is - why is this the only tarantula out of the 30 or so tarantulas that I've had/have (and I've had four of this very species, mostly frackin' males) that does this? All have used the same type of tank, same substrate, etc. Next time I buy a tarantula, if it is missing _ANY _legs (especially missing three legs like this one) I'll know it has masochist tendencies and I just need to pass it over... :?


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## Mez (Feb 5, 2011)

If you are worried, surely rehouse the lividum into a different enclosure with an acrylic lid.



> Next time I buy a tarantula, if it is missing ANY legs (especially missing three legs like this one) I'll know it has masochist tendencies and I just need to pass it over...


- I wouldnt be buying any Tarantulas with 3  missing legs, but that dosnt mean its  not lost them to bad moults, or some other reason.


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## gmrpnk21 (Feb 5, 2011)

Tarantulas are not like mammals with complicated thoughts or emotions. If it is doing something that causes it harm, remove the possibility of damage or death. It isn't hard to replace screen with plexiglass or acrylic, and it's even easier to use saran wrap. Almost everyone has said the same thing, and even if the tarantula rarely does it, it still isn't good.


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## Fran (Feb 5, 2011)

BatGirl said:


> I considered putting up a force field across the top of the tank, but the emissions could be more harmful than the loss of a single leg. Perhaps I can spray some 'tarantula off the furniture' spray on the tank top. Also, I've asked her nicely not to do it for it seems to cause damage, but she doesn't seem to care... I believe I need to take her to a psychiatrist and get her on some medication or something.



Theres a strong  need for some medication allright, but not really for the T.
...Ridiculous.


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## BatGirl (Feb 7, 2011)

*et al*



> ...rehouse the lividum into a different enclosure with an acrylic lid...


... yeah, let's just give her something else to dangle from! :wall:

I don't believe the 'issue' is _*what*_ she dangles from, but _*why*_ she dangles at all (i.e. why the 'trance' - none of my other Burmese cobalt blue tarantulas, housed in the same type cage, _EVER _did anything like this - heck, the very cage she is in was Max's cage before he fell apart... poor ol' males! And, he never did this dangle thing) which ends up occasionally damaging leg joint(s). The cage at Pet Company was one of those w/o a screen on the top and the door in the front for access, yet still three legs got damaged and lost. The smaller cage she had before this one had an expanded metal top and she used to dangle from that, too (i.e. no wire mesh to _'get her claws caught on'_). Her claws aren't 'getting caught', she's just weird, perhaps a bit masochist. Just thought it was curious so I posted it in this forum, got attacked, banned when I defended myself, and now we're here at this point in time...



> ...Tarantulas are not like mammals with complicated thoughts or emotions...


Never said she has complex thought processes like mammals (interesting concept), but evidently they do have thought processes of some kind, and this one has unique ones when it comes to "hey, you know, I fell like dangling tonite and going into a trance..." As far as not buying a tarantula missing three legs - I bought her while missing three legs because the morons were totally afraid of her due to her hostility and were trying to starve her to death and she was still _gorgeous _to me (got her for 1/2 price if I was the one to take her from the cage... got another one from Petco the same way, but with all legs, and they threw in the cheap plastic cage she was in, heh, heh - cowards). The reason she was missing three legs when I rescued her from the pet shop, at least based upon my observations for years, is most likely this 'dangle' habit - could be for 'other reasons' like bad molt, but I feel like that's a stretch given the overwhelming evidence to the contrary...

Not looking for help on this as I do not consider it a serious problem and apparently neither does Leela - just originally asked if anyone else ever observed this weird behavior in their tarantula


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## gmrpnk21 (Feb 7, 2011)

BatGirl said:


> ... yeah, let's just give her something else to dangle from! :wall:
> 
> I don't believe the 'issue' is _*what*_ she dangles from, but _*why*_ she dangles at all (i.e. why the 'trance' - none of my other Burmese cobalt blue tarantulas, housed in the same type cage, _EVER _did anything like this - heck, the very cage she is in was Max's cage before he fell apart... poor ol' males! And, he never did this dangle thing) which ends up occasionally damaging leg joint(s). The cage at Pet Company was one of those w/o a screen on the top and the door in the front for access, yet still three legs got damaged and lost. The smaller cage she had before this one had an expanded metal top and she used to dangle from that, too (i.e. no wire mesh to _'get her claws caught on'_). Her claws aren't 'getting caught', she's just weird, perhaps a bit masochist. Just thought it was curious so I posted it in this forum, got attacked, banned when I defended myself, and now we're here at this point in time...:cool
> 
> ...


I was referring to the idea that a tarantula could miss a former mate or have masochistic tendencies. The tarantula wouldn't hang from plexiglass glass like it does from the screen and it wouldn't have as much of a risk of getting stuck in a drilled hole through a solid top. Screen just separates when something pushes through it and grips on when it tries to get out. I still don't understand why you wouldn't want to at least try to prevent your pet from losing a limb.


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## Mez (Feb 8, 2011)

How can it dangle from acrylic? It may very well be able to crawl upside down, but it cant hook on it like it can mesh.


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## Glory (Feb 8, 2011)

JUST REPLACE THE LID! That way, even if Joanie starts missing Chachi again, she won't be ABLE to intentionally get her hooks stuck in the mesh in a sad attempt at suicide.


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## Blackbeard (Feb 8, 2011)

PhobeToPhile said:


> Some (or rather, many) of those people on your ignore list are some of the most knwoeldgable from what I've observed. You are shutting yourself off from _alot_ of good advice. As foor your problem...I remember reading somewhere you can avoid the whole "claws caught on mesh" problem by using a different kind of mesh. Had something to do with the way the mesh was fused together or something.


That's a shame.
It causes a lot of confusion and people who mean well are investing their valuable time for nothing.
Puting people on a ignore list for whatever the reason seems very childish to me.
Almost makes me think it's a dedicted troll.


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## KnightinGale (Feb 8, 2011)

Hello,

This is not unheard of, or even particularly uncommon behavior. I know I've read it in at least one tarantula book and have seen one of mine doing it as well (with no previous males involved or three missing legs from the petshop). I added more substrate and have had no further problems. If they can reach the substrate when one leg is caught, they can lever themselves up and release the leg. At any rate, screen tops, especially undipped ones (a weakness of otherwise grand Exo-terra tanks) ALWAYS pose a possibility of leg-loss, or even death. "Tarantulas and other Arachnids" mentions finding one that had eventually died still stuck in the mesh. A tarantula that has never climbed in it life may climb once and have an accident.
  A tarantula may simply never make the connection between wandering and the danger of certain surfaces not found in its natural environment, even with repeated instances. On a non-mesh top, it can still climb and not be in any danger if the substrate is high enough. Then it cannot hang by one leg, potentially doing damage. Their claws are retractable, and that is why they get stuck. They use them to grip, and then when they slip or fall and one is still holding on, they don't have the power to retract it and let go unless they manage to pull themselves up and gain some leverage. That is what I actually believe is happening in your scenario. The "trance" you speak of I believe is simply tiredness after the initial panic and struggling. Tarantulas are not endurance creatures! When you tap the lid, I don't believe it "wakens" her from a "trance" but rather motivates her enough to struggle again and make it up. From her perspective, she is vulnerable and a potential predator many hundreds of times her size has shown up.
  Whether you agree with this or not, is it not worth the well-being of your girl to be better safe than sorry? Obviously she may climb again, and you may not be there next time to help her out. I wouldn't want to come home one day to find one of mine dangling and dead, would you?


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## BatGirl (Feb 9, 2011)

*...anyone else experience this 'trance dangling'?*



> ...have seen one of mine doing it...


Thanks for the report and staying (sorta) on topic - anyone else experience this 'trance dangling'?

btw (and back to off topic, I really don't know why...) - if it can 'release' it's claw from the *infamous *wire mesh 'trap' (oooooohhhh!) by merely _reaching _the ground, then it can 'release' it otherwise as well... and she has deep substrate and has built this elaborate tunnel she normally stays in, she just likes to climb up and dangle from time to time (so preventing her climbing at all is not an option) and the lost leg is from damaged joints by dangling too long (per examination of the missing leg) not from falling too far (for one side of the cage has the substrate sloped to near the top) - ya see, mine doesn't pull up and struggle to _unsnare itself from the wire meah 'trap_', for when I tap on the cage to snap it back to reality (happened too many times for her to be 'unlucky in getting stuck' and me being 'lucky' in getting her unstuck so easily) - it just simply pulls up and walks off (don't know why I have to keep pointing this out)... the trick seems to be to catch her before she's dangled too long and has caused damage. AND, an acrylic top with holes like she had at Pet Company where she'd lost three legs can be 'dangled' from just as easily...


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## NikiP (Feb 9, 2011)

No, the point isnt that they can unhook merely be *reaching* the ground. They simply need the ground to be able to push against, so they can push up to unhook their leg.

But it's not like you'll give it a try.


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## Fran (Feb 9, 2011)

I want to think you are not serious and just playing troll. I really want to think that, because otherwise I cant believe what Im reading.


*Change-the-darn-lid * or just put some packing tape around the inside of the lid *and the problem is solved*.

She wont be able to climb that way. She wont be dangling from the lid because when she reacheS the top the tape will prevent from sticking the claws in the mesh.

But please...Please, dont keep going on and on with this issue because If you are serious, which I doubt, its making you look like you are one fry sort of a Happy Meal.PLEASE


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## Silberrücken (Feb 9, 2011)

*Change-the-darn-lid * or just put some packing tape around the inside of the lid *and the problem is solved*.

YYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSS..............

Spot on, Fran!!!!!!!!!!!


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## gmrpnk21 (Feb 9, 2011)

Fran said:


> I want to think you are not serious and just playing troll. I really want to think that, because otherwise I cant believe what Im reading.
> 
> 
> *Change-the-darn-lid * or just put some packing tape around the inside of the lid *and the problem is solved*.
> ...


I agree. I think there is a troll in our midst...


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## curiousme (Feb 9, 2011)

skinheaddave said:


> This has simply got to stop.  People gave advice and it was summarily ignored.   That is unfortunate for the OP, those who took the time to give their advice, and particularly for the T in question.
> 
> Think back to grade school when all the kids would get around and poke fun at an individual.  It didn't matter if they deserved it or not, everyone would join in and it quickly became about being cool, social status and peer pressure .. the content of the criticism meant nothing anymore.  It didn't matter if the kid was being beaten for stealing lunches or laughed at because their parents died ... it was about people making themselves feel big.  This is what I see here.
> 
> ...


^^^This thread has gone in the troll direction already.  

She doesn't want advice, she wants to tell you about the cool trance her tarantula goes into.  If you want to have a go at giving her advice, then do, but let's not start having multiple posts calling her a troll.


back on the new topic presented:

*Batgirl*~ We found our _G. rosea_ hanging from her screen lid and swiftly changed to an acrylic one.


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## gmrpnk21 (Feb 9, 2011)

curiousme said:


> ^^^This thread has gone in the troll direction already.
> 
> She doesn't want advice, she wants to tell you about the cool trance her tarantula goes into.  If you want to have a go at giving her advice, then do, but let's not start having multiple posts calling her a troll.
> 
> ...


And you are smart for doing it.


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## KnightinGale (Feb 10, 2011)

Whoa Batgirl, I said in my post that you didn't have to agree with me, but that it was my own experience and reasoning for why that experience occured. Anyway, no need for the eye-rolling and all the sarcasm. 
  As for the topic, I honestly thought I was on topic. Even if you wanted to get away from the original debate and hear experiences of other people, in sharing my experience I must make it clear that I have a different interpretation of the same thing. As our good moderater said, this is as much for everyone elses sake as yours. Also, it is for my own since I want people to associate me with my own thoughts and observations rather than another's. This forum is for sharing experiences, observations, research and opinions and I am sorry if I have offended you by trying to do so.
  So, back to the post. I think Nikki was correct in believing you misunderstood my point about the substrate. It has nothing to do, in this case, with the length of a fall, her need for a burrow or with preventing her from climbing. As I said, it is a matter of leverage. Her weight hanging on a single pair of claws is what prevents them from retracting and releasing. It could also be released by pushing against the sides if she can get purchase or catching more claws on the mesh to be able to take the bulk off the one. When saw my girl, she was walking along the top, slipped and ended up with one claw stuck. She put up a panicked struggle while I went to get a large spoon. When I cm back she was still. I propped the scoop under her so she could lift her leg and unhook the claw to release herself. After I added enough substrate for her to reach, there was no more dangling and now she doesn't even go on the top of her cage anymore. 
  As for the pet store at which she was missing legs; do you know for certain the circumstances of this?  Did they tell you that she was seen dangling from the top by one leg and therefore lost three of them? If so, then certainly I would not use one of those lids either! If not, she could have lost those legs in transit, from a bad molt or any multitude of other ways. Again though, the issue with losing limbs from roof-walking is not the roof-walking itself, but from getting caught by the claws on one or two legs with no easy form of release. I don't say all this to be argumentative or mean, but because you didn't seem to understand what I meant in my original post and I want to be clear. 
I'll leave you with a couple quotes about the mesh though, since that was the part you seemed most defensive about. We aren't pulling this stuff out of our arse, and since I mentioned I read it in books I will give you the references so you don't have to take my word for it:
From the "Tarantula Keeper's Guide" 1998 edition, pg. 110
"If the strands of wire are merely woven together rather than welded (as in hot-dipped, galvanized mesh), the animal could snag a claw between two strands. This could result in the loss of a claw or even a leg. Certainly the tarantula would be most uncomfortable, hanging there for hours until rescued."
I couldn't find where I had read the anectodal account I mentioned previously that resulted in a death. I had thought it was in "Tarantulas and other Arachnids" but I lost my old edition and had to look in a newer one. I did find this though, in the 2001 edition on page 31:
"Tarantulas have two claws on each foot and these can become caught on the screen top or edges of the tank top." Then, "If you have a spider that paces a lot, climbing up the corners of the tank, you are likely to find it swinging in the morning. One way to minimize the problem is to use shallow tanks and fill them with enough substrate so that the spider can reach the floor of the cage with its back legs and the top with its front."
(Sorry that was so long! But I wanted to include the actual references.)


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## jbm150 (Feb 10, 2011)

You have a problem that repeats itself and causes stress to your spider.

You have several easy and cheap solutions to said problem.

So why does this thread continue to exist?

Its not a masochistic tarantula, its looking more like a sadistic owner


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## elle101 (Feb 10, 2011)

I agree completely with jbm150. Why ask for advice if you don't intend on using it?


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## BatGirl (Feb 13, 2011)

*thanks...*



> ...put some packing tape around the inside of the lid...


I'm speechless


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## gmrpnk21 (Feb 13, 2011)

BatGirl said:


> I'm speechless


Why? Sticky side up means that t doesn't get stuck and it should discourage it from even walking on the top.


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## Fran (Feb 13, 2011)

BatGirl said:


> I'm speechless


Thats how we are since  your very first post. Speechless.


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## BatGirl (Feb 15, 2011)

*new development*

This time it was the weirdest one of all... (and I know y'all are awaiting the next chapter in this ongoing amusing saga)

OK, so she's 'dangling' by one leg from the roof, but with the two back legs standing on the substrate on the high grade side of the tank. Appears to be oblivious - in some kinda trance, for this goes on for about a half hour. I keep checking back 'cause I'm curious how this unhooking is supposed to play out, but I get bored and need to go back to sleep. Again, I tap noisily on the side of the tank and she 'awakens' then pulls up (i.e. she doesn't seem to 'push-off' from the bottom to 'unhook' from some now infamous wire mesh trap she's caught in, to then drop safely to the bottom) and then merely walks across the top to the side like she always has, to then walk down the side to the bottom. Still got the itty-bitty replacement leg which seems useless in her 'dangling' habit. Maybe she's hoping her weight will somehow tear loose the top where she can continue her adventure? (Ms. MacGyver, looking for her 'Max', two lovers star-crossed...) Maybe it's some kinda freaky tarantula exercise? (she's so buff...) Maybe she knows it's a way to get some attention? (bored silly) Maybe she knows her escapades are being posted and wants to stump us all (OK, so I'M STUMPED)...


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## Silberrücken (Feb 15, 2011)

BatGirl said:


> Maybe she knows it's a way to get some attention? (bored silly)


Your own words.


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## baconmushroom (Feb 15, 2011)

jbm150 said:


> You have a problem that repeats itself and causes stress to your spider.
> 
> You have several easy and cheap solutions to said problem.
> 
> ...



2 words that might ring a bell...and stop it with the trance like state, the spider is not on LSD..maybe you are but thats just me.


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## GiantVinegaroon (Feb 16, 2011)

I completely understand the affection people have for their pets and how often times their owners tend to anthropomorphize their behaviors and think of them as intelligent organisms.  People who don't really bother researching their animals beyond how to take care of them seem to have more of a tendency to do this than those who do extensive research first.

I keep tarantulas and other inverts.  I love them to death.  However, that doesn't mean I think they're highly intellectual beings.  They act completely by instinct.  Their brains are not complex enough to learn something such as meditation, so the idea that your cobalt blue is putting itself in a trance is just silly.  Like others have said it's tired from struggling, just like a hooked fish tires out from fighting the angler reeling it in.  No matter how long you've had our spider, it is not going to learn your tap isn't a threat.  When you're tapping, you're tarantula perceives that as a large threat approaching, starting a fight or flight response that gives it enough energy to move away.

Your tarantula is not just hanging from a limb for a thrill.  She is not missing Max or trying to reconnect with his spirit, either.  This is simply a disaster waiting to happen if you don't do something about that lid or add more substrate.


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## gmrpnk21 (Feb 17, 2011)

Lol, I think everyone has posted very similar answers to no avail. I like my tarantulas a lot, but I can't say I am emotionally attached to them. They are beautiful, interesting and amusing, but I understand that they are not cats or dogs...


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## BatGirl (Mar 5, 2011)

> ...they are not cats or dogs...


Yeah, dogs and cats lick their butt, and tarantulas are smarter than that


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## Lolita (Mar 5, 2011)

gmrpnk21 said:


> Lol, I think everyone has posted very similar answers to no avail. I like my tarantulas a lot, but I can't say I am emotionally attached to them. They are beautiful, interesting and amusing, but I understand that they are not cats or dogs...


i'm emotionally attached to mine not because i view them as sentient beings but because each one has slightly different colorings than the other each one likes to do something slightly different it's a variation in instinct yes but i like watching my one B. vagans make a mountain out of it's eco earth when my other one makes a burrow if they died i'd miss that trait that they do just like if my large B boehmei died i'd miss the way it kicks hairs at it's food


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## gmrpnk21 (Mar 5, 2011)

I did not mean I didn't care about my bugs . They are interesting to watch and a beautiful thing to behold. However, they don't have warm fuzzy feelings to their owners, so I can't say I feel the same way about them as I do the two cats that sleep in my bed . 




Lolita said:


> i'm emotionally attached to mine not because i view them as sentient beings but because each one has slightly different colorings than the other each one likes to do something slightly different it's a variation in instinct yes but i like watching my one B. vagans make a mountain out of it's eco earth when my other one makes a burrow if they died i'd miss that trait that they do just like if my large B boehmei died i'd miss the way it kicks hairs at it's food


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## Lolita (Mar 5, 2011)

gmrpnk21 said:


> I did not mean I didn't care about my bugs . They are interesting to watch and a beautiful thing to behold. However, they don't have warm fuzzy feelings to their owners, so I can't say I feel the same way about them as I do the two cats that sleep in my bed .



lol i don't know my dog pees on my floor my tarantulas don't so sometimes i like my tarantulas better than my warm and fuzzy pets


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## BatGirl (Mar 8, 2011)

> two cats that sleep in my bed


Cats are great for cleaning the toilet (open front door, open toilet lid, place cat in, close lid and sit on it, flush 6 times, open lid to let self cleaning toilet cleaner leave the house [it will then clean itself outside], close the front door - toilet is now clean), and that's about it!

They're also good for coyote bait...:clap:

...and cat owners let the nasty things lick them as well (commonly in the face -yuck!) and remember, they do lick their butt...:barf:


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## gmrpnk21 (Mar 8, 2011)

So do dogs and a lot of other pets. Difference is the antibodies in the saliva. You never see your tarantulas put one of their legs in their mouths and clean it? Spiders are hard wired to work a certain way. They may adapt to their environment, but they are still wild arachnids.


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## paassatt (Mar 8, 2011)

gmrpnk21 said:


> ...but they are still wild *insects*.


This should read *arachnids*.


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## xhexdx (Mar 8, 2011)

Why are people still posting in this thread?

Feeding the troll, I tell you. :}


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## Rob1985 (Mar 8, 2011)

xhexdx said:


> Why are people still posting in this thread?
> 
> Feeding the troll, I tell you. :}


 I am still laughing at the Burmese Cobalt Blue... personally though, I have never even called it a Cobalt Blue. What is with all these peeps calling things by common name.... AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! lol :}

---------- Post added at 03:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:02 PM ----------




BatGirl said:


> Cats are great for cleaning the toilet (open front door, open toilet lid, place cat in, close lid and sit on it, flush 6 times, open lid to let self cleaning toilet cleaner leave the house [it will then clean itself outside], close the front door - toilet is now clean), and that's about it!
> 
> They're also good for coyote bait...:clap:
> 
> ...and cat owners let the nasty things lick them as well (commonly in the face -yuck!) and remember, they do lick their butt...:barf:


 yeah...


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