# BEtter enclosures for tarantulas?



## Vilurum (Jun 23, 2011)

Now I have one of my Ts (rose hair) in a 5 gallon glass exo terra cage and even with the sub reaching to where the doors open it is still to high for her (she climbs and falls alot)

Aswell I would like her to have more ground space.

I have looked into all mannor of plastic containers but they have bad lids and arn't see through.

What can you recommend I use?


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## groovyspider (Jun 23, 2011)

Vilurum said:


> Now I have one of my Ts (rose hair) in a 5 gallon glass exo terra cage and even with the sub reaching to where the doors open it is still to high for her (she climbs and falls alot)
> 
> Aswell I would like her to have more ground space.
> 
> ...


larger sized kritter keepers work


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## Verneph (Jun 23, 2011)

She climbs a lot?  What kind of substrate are you using?


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## Alexandra V (Jun 23, 2011)

Personally I use the Exo Terra plastic vivariums ("Kritter Keepers"). The fist thing I do however is remove the little handle on the lid so I'm not tempted to lift it up by the lid because while the tarantula can't escape those lids, the lid isn't secure enough to lift the enclosure by. They come in a bunch of different sizes and are very cheap.

Another option if you want something more like a display cage would be something along the lines of these: http://tarantulacages.com/ They're really cool looking and seem to be very high quality from the reviews I've read.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Pugsley (Jun 23, 2011)

I moved my rose to one of these.. http://www.reptilecentre.com/exoterra-flat-faunarium-large-460x300x170mm_p4022011.htm 

was only £10 at surrey pet supplies. Gives her tons of floor space and is low to stop any ambitious climbing (not that I'd ever describe my Rosie as ambitious when it comes to exploring)


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## Vilurum (Jun 23, 2011)

As far as I am aware the largest Kritter Kepper isn't really that big?

I am using Vermiculite and she loves it, she has no probs going into her hide on it, sitting on it in the open or digging in it, she climbs alot as she is very active.

---------- Post added at 02:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:39 PM ----------

Pugsly i have been actually considering getting one of them, but my T digs ALOT about 5" deep at some spots so if I had that much sub in he wouldn't really have any height at all then :/


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## Alexandra V (Jun 23, 2011)

Vilurum said:


> As far as I am aware the largest Kritter Kepper isn't really that big?


There are a lot of companies now that make the exact same thing in different sizes and shapes under different names. At my lps there are tons of different types. For instance, the Exo Terra Faunariums: http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products/faunarium.php my young G. Porteri is in the PT-2300 and still has ample room, but a G. Rosea when full grown should be alright in the biggest one (PT-2310).

Edit: wait, just realized Pugsley showed you the same thing...


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## Vilurum (Jun 23, 2011)

I know they are in my shops but with the sub in she would more or less be squashed against the top.

I guess I could put less sub in but as I said she loves to dig.


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## groovyspider (Jun 23, 2011)

not only that the kritter keepers come with diffrent colors you can set up a color system like for instance all my Ts like haplos along them lines have a blue lid my safe ones have light color lid was gonna go with pink or sumthen but hard to color cordinate if constanly out of the fml so i just go with the light color one.. and the other inverts that require food more i use black like for my centipede... just a suggestion i dunno works for me


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## Stan Schultz (Jun 23, 2011)

Vilurum said:


> Now I have one of my Ts (rose hair) in a 5 gallon glass exo terra cage and even with the sub reaching to where the doors open it is still to high for her (she climbs and falls alot)
> 
> Aswell I would like her to have more ground space.
> 
> ...


For showing off your most prized specimens use 2.5 or 5.5 gal aquariums. (Multiply those values by 3.8 to get liter capacity.) For the really, REALLY big tarantulas a 10 or 15 gal is generally okay. These look great and the glass doesn't scratch very easily. The cons to these are that they're expensive and heavy. (Click the thumbnails to see larger versions.)



(Uploaded with ImageShack.us)

A close second best are the so-called Kritter Keeper style cages. Use the same sizes as the aforementioned aquariums, but beware of the very largest sizes. They're much too tall for most tarantulas. Pros: Relatively inexpensive. Readily available. There is a shape available that is flatter than the photo below that works really well for large collections. Not terribly expensive, ... Cons:  ... but the cost adds up for very large collections. The plastic scratches easily. Tarantulas often stick their legs throw the slots in the grill and get stuck, sometimes pulling off a leg. The grilled top is difficult to cover with something like plastic food wrap to control ventilation, and therefore humidity.



(Uploaded with ImageShack.us)

Plastic shoe boxes are also very popular for the bulk of your working collection, especially if you just need housing and you're not planning on displaying the tarantula. Pros: Available almost everywhere. Extremely economical. Semi-disposable. Empty units nest for compact storage. Units in use stack well up to 5 or 6 tall. Cons: NOT ESCAPE PROOF! Can be too light and flimsy. Often not transparent enough to inspect the contents without opening the box (important if you're dealing with hyperactive species or those with "medically significant" bites). Plastic scratches readily.



(Uploaded with ImageShack.us)

Gotta go ...battery's dying. Cheers,


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## Vilurum (Jun 23, 2011)

Why would you bother having them if you wern't going to display them?

By that I mean not having them so you can't look at.


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## Nanchantress (Jun 23, 2011)

*Container thread*

Search for this thread:  The Container Thread 
(Sorry I don't know how to link threads here...)

It has some great, inexpensive ideas.


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## astraldisaster (Jun 23, 2011)

I  notice you're in Ireland, so I don't know if you can get them, but my new favorite enclosures for terrestrials are these. They look great, stack nicely, and even come with pre-drilled ventilation holes! The men's shoebox is good for any medium to large T (up to 6" or so), and the small mid-heeled one is good for juveniles up to 4".


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## Kirsten (Jun 24, 2011)

I use 5.5 gal. glass tanks for my G. rosea, B. vagans, A. payson,and a 10 gallon for my large Pulchripes. For my juvie P. murinas and juvie B. smithi, I have them in kritter keepers; I use the medium size, and of course, the appropriate amount of sub for digging, safety etc. For my s'lings of which I have 3, 1-2", I have my G. pulchra and my Euathlus sp. orange in the square breeder boxes with the feeding door on the side; I have a 2" N. chromatus in a nice little glass jewelry type box trimmed with brass that I rigged with small lid propers for adequate oxygen and is quite lovely. Lid sides are secured and no problems. I have one avic. avic. in a Michael's acrylic show box (I'm sure you've seen those). Got all fancy and put brass corner pieces and a brass and 'crystal' handle on the lid : ) my P. irminia and another avic. avic. in the clear 1 gal. paint cans with the metal lids you pry up with the attached 'coin' thing that are also from Michael's. Of course, the proper ventilation holes must be drilled or melted in. I have a Haplopelma vonworthi in a large (not the tall largest, though I think she'd love the tunneling depth) and she's made a good tunnel and chamber in that. A P. scrofa is housed in the shorter, but longer kritter keeper seen above and happily so. One G. rosea RCF is in one of those odd-shaped, transparent, blue-topped jobs, though. A nice 5.5 when I have the room. I have a mygalomorph (A. franckie) in one of those cheeseball containers and she's webbed that up nicely. 

So, you see, lots of options. As adults, all my terrestrials will be in 5.5 tanks with the exception of the one in the 10 gallon. I like making 'show tanks' at all stages, though : )


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## Jwest (Jun 24, 2011)

Lay the exoterra on its side and lift the lid up when you want to open it


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## Stan Schultz (Jun 24, 2011)

Vilurum said:


> Now I have one of my Ts (rose hair) in a 5 gallon glass exo terra cage and even with the sub reaching to where the doors open it is still to high for her (she climbs and falls alot) ...


Someone else brought up the subject of what and how much substrate you were using. I am going to hijack that posting with some advice about substrates.

Simple is better. There are no significant advantages to mixing up some exotic concoction. Unless you have some specific goal in mind, use either horticultural peat (aka, black peat, Canadian peat, sphagnum peat - but *NOT* plain sphagnum) or shredded coconut husk (aka, coir, coco husk, and a bunch of unimportant trade names). Both are available from landscape and garden centers in your neighborhood for much less than you'll pay in a pet shop.

The standard rule of thumb (that 50% of enthusiasts ignore) is that if you don't want your tarantula to burrow, use a layer only 1" to 2" (2.5 - 5 cm) deep, but give the tarantula something to hide in.

If you don't mind your tarantula burrowing, or you want it to burrow, use whatever depth you feel compelled to, but you may have to mix some portion of garden loam into the substrate to keep the burrow from collapsing every time you walk past the cage. Such garden loam is also available in most landscaping and garden centers. Try to get something that's declared "natural and organic."

Having said that, another standard rule is that the distance between the top of the substrate and the top of the cage should not exceed 1.5 times the leg span of the tarantula to prevent it from hurting itself when it climbs and subsequently falls. Please note:

1. Spiderlings are not so prone to falling, and are of much lighter weight, so their cages can be a little taller.

2. Very old, fat tarantulas should be kept in flatter cages with much less climbing room.

3. This rule doesn't apply to the arboreal species because they have evolved special behaviors and anatomies to prevent cataclysmic falls.

To find out how to use these substrates, merely click the <Search> link in the gray bar across the top of this page and type either *peat*, *husk*, or *coconut* in the box. Click *Go*.

While the computer and network are working you might consider going into the kitchen to pour yourself a glass/cup/stein of your favorite beverage. You've got a lot of reading to do.

If you want to concentrate on my little pearls of wisdom, go "Advanced Search" and type *Pikaia* in the "User Name:" box. Just be aware that I often get flamed for so boldly lobbying in favor my personal biases. So, in self defense, if you're a newby, do it this way for now. After you've had several tarantulas for more than a year it's okay to gently experiment on them with new arrangements, or to follow someone else's advice.

Lastly, enthusiasts generally fall into two broad groups: Those that like to keep fancy, natural and organic, toy utopias (these arrangements often require frequent attention, and if anything goes wrong, correcting it is a *BIG* chore). And, those who take a minimalist approach, supplying the tarantula with all the basic, important things, but shying away from the flashy, museum diorama type cages. These alternate, basic cages are a lot easier to care for, especially if you accumulate dozens or hundreds of tarantulas.

BTW, has anyone told you of the tarantula enthusiast's lament?

*LIKE THOSE POTATO CHIPS, YOU CAN'T HAVE JUST ONE!*

You've been warned! 

Best of luck.


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## Vilurum (Jun 24, 2011)

Why would you make it so your T couldn't burrow if it wanted to?

Thats not exactly fair on the T (I like to care for there needs 1st then my own, not the other way round)

Those flat rectangle boxes people have been showing me would be perfect, but again I need a good 6"+ sub in the tank as my T likes to burrow (and to reducs sub so it can't dig would be mean imo so I am not going to reduce the sub :/

I have looked into large cheap plastic boxes (don;t mind the huge amount of sub to fill it to a safe level, but its just the lids on them seem abit bad)


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## Stan Schultz (Jun 25, 2011)

Vilurum said:


> Why would you make it so your T couldn't burrow if it wanted to? ...


1. Babies and small spiderlings almost always burrow (at least the terrestrial species). But we usually keep them on comparatively thick layers of substrate anyway, so it really doesn't matter.

2. Larger spiderlings to adults may or may not burrow if given the chance. A lot depends on the species and the cage, but there are no exact rules or even guidelines beyond setting up a burrower's cage and watching what happens.

3. Fifty+ years of experience by literally thousands of enthusiasts have demonstrated that burrowing per se is not necessary to the health and well being of almost all terrestrial tarantulas (and since few or no arboreals "burrow," they are automatically excluded). The whole issue may be moot.

4. Because I want to at least see, and possibly interact with the spider I just paid $300 for! The thought of a $300 pet hole just seems so silly to me.



Vilurum said:


> ... Thats not exactly fair on the T (I like to care for there needs 1st then my own, not the other way round) ...


What's fair? If yours is a wild caught tarantula remember that it was unceremoniously dug out of its burrow on another continent by some huge, clumsy, bipedal creature with bad breath and body odor. Think "alien abduction" here. Or, "Close Encounters of the Fourth Kind!"

If yours was cage bred and raised, it's been completely deprived of any interaction with its native, wild environment from birth. Does this seem fair?

It turns out that this type of discussion has occurred time and time again on this and other forums with some taking the stance that stealing these animals from their native habitat under any circumstances is dead wrong; and those on the other end of the spectrum taking the stance that there's nothing wrong at all, that we're actually doing them a favor. It's an old, old argument that involves everything from tigers and penguins to domestic cats and dogs. There have been flame wars that rivaled the American Civil War! 

There is no answer or solution to the question because the universe isn't set up to consider "fair."



Vilurum said:


> ... Those flat rectangle boxes people have been showing me would be perfect, but again I need a good 6"+ sub in the tank as my T likes to burrow (and to reducs sub so it can't dig would be mean imo so I am not going to reduce the sub ...


Then use the regular shaped Kritter Keeper style cage as in the middle photo in my earlier post.



Vilurum said:


> ... I have looked into large cheap plastic boxes (don;t mind the huge amount of sub to fill it to a safe level, but its just the lids on them seem abit bad)


Ah! Lids are critical because they prevent the tarantula from escaping. And, it will escape if it gets a chance. There are all sorts of ways of fastening those covers, but they all require some ingenuity and a few common tools on your part. I suggest you start looking through the photo sections of the various Internet forums for ideas and instructions.

Abducted by aliens, eh? (That's a Canadian joke.  )


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## bravesvikings20 (Jun 25, 2011)

Vilurum said:


> Why would you make it so your T couldn't burrow if it wanted to?
> 
> Thats not exactly fair on the T (I like to care for there needs 1st then my own, not the other way round)
> 
> ...


My only thing is rosies almost never really climb...how moist are you keeping the substrate? Keep it bone dry


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## Vilurum (Jun 26, 2011)

Well we try to replicate how it was in the wild.

Both my Ts were captive born and raised so know no other life, nothing is being taken away, the T is question was taken from a pet shop that had her on a shallow layer of wood chippings and no hide :/ so I think I am giving it a better life and doing my best to give it the best life it can have.

But again its all opinion.....

Also yes the sub is ofcourse kept bone dry, she has a dish of fresh water in the corner of the cage, I don;t even mist (unless it was coming to a molt then a very light mist)

Why is it hard to believe my T just likes to climb? :S


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## Arachnoholic420 (Jun 26, 2011)

is your substrate packed or loose?....

A loose substrate can give your tarantula stress, 
your tarantula can sense that it's not on stable ground...
that's why it's climbing around ...
i had this same issue when i first started in the hobby....
i experimented to see which substrate was best....
i came to the conclusion that...

Vermiculite can hold humidity better and they are mold resistant so on...
the down fall is that you cant use it by it's self for terrestrial species.....
with arboreal species it's ok to use pure vermiculite, they dont mind...

Vermiculite doesn't pack well like soil or other substrates
you need to mix it with some peat or coco to get the best results when using vermiculite, which ever you prefer....

Good luck.... 

Peace!!!


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## Alexandra V (Jun 26, 2011)

Vilurum said:


> Well we try to replicate how it was in the wild.
> 
> Both my Ts were captive born and raised so know no other life, nothing is being taken away, the T is question was taken from a pet shop that had her on a shallow layer of wood chippings and no hide :/ so I think I am giving it a better life and doing my best to give it the best life it can have.
> 
> ...


Because G. Rosas don't normally climb. It's not part of their normal behavior.

It could be that she isn't pleased with the texture of the substrate (I've heard of a lot of wall clingers when people housing terrestrial tarantulas used straight vermiculite as substrate, because it just falls apart when it's stepped on and the T didn't like it.)

Maybe next time you change out your sub, try tamping it down really well so it's more solid? That could be why she's climbing a lot.


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## malevolentrobot (Jun 26, 2011)

Alexandra V said:


> Because G. Rosas don't normally climb. It's not part of their normal behavior.
> 
> It could be that she isn't pleased with the texture of the substrate (I've heard of a lot of wall clingers when people housing terrestrial tarantulas used straight vermiculite as substrate, because it just falls apart when it's stepped on and the T didn't like it.)


after dealing with a fair share of rosea, this seems to be the case. new textures, renewed desire to move about and "fix" the situation, usually with something like coir they chill out once it dries out, and then either go pet rocky or start excavating.

as to the rest of the comments, i have totally stopped with the fancy shmancy setups after a multitude of issues, some husbandry related, most not. i've gone minimalist for a while now, and it makes the arachnid related headaches occur much less when the collection hovers in the 30 range.




Pikaia said:


> Lastly, enthusiasts generally fall into two broad groups: Those that like to keep fancy, natural and organic, toy utopias (these arrangements often require frequent attention, and if anything goes wrong, correcting it is a *BIG* chore). And, those who take a minimalist approach, supplying the tarantula with all the basic, important things, but shying away from the flashy, museum diorama type cages. These alternate, basic cages are a lot easier to care for, especially if you accumulate dozens or hundreds of tarantulas.


i fall into the latter. kudos to those who maintain perfect and pretty setups for a multitude of tarantulas, but i only have a few "display" Ts, so i'd rather stick to what isn't going to wear me thin as far as husbandry is concerned.


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## Stan Schultz (Jun 26, 2011)

bravesvikings20 said:


> My only thing is rosies almost never really climb...


Oh yes they do! You may never see them because during daylight, and especially when you're in the room, they're cowering in the corner or in their hide. Check on them at 3:00 AM several nights in a row (but move very softly and don't turn on any lights!) and you'll see them prowling the cage and climbing the glass.

Remember, in the tarantula's native habitat 90% of its world is vertical, either a vertical burrow or the side of a tree trunk. The flat, horizontal world we force them into in our cages is decidedly foreign, if not downright alien!

Enjoy your "Close Encounters of the Fourth Kind," little buddy!


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## bravesvikings20 (Jun 26, 2011)

Pikaia said:


> Oh yes they do! You may never see them because during daylight, and especially when you're in the room, they're cowering in the corner or in their hide. Check on them at 3:00 AM several nights in a row (but move very softly and don't turn on any lights!) and you'll see them prowling the cage and climbing the glass.
> 
> Remember, in the tarantula's native habitat 90% of its world is vertical, either a vertical burrow or the side of a tree trunk. The flat, horizontal world we force them into in our cages is decidedly foreign, if not downright alien!
> 
> *Enjoy your "Close Encounters of the Fourth Kind," little buddy*!


Little buddy? Every time I have EVER heard of a rose hair climbing was because the substrate was too moist, calm down, <edit>


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## Vilurum (Jun 27, 2011)

Well my sub is bone dry and quite compacted.


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## jungalist86 (Jun 27, 2011)

my substrate is dry and perfect and she chills on it all day but as soon as the lights are out shes active and does ocassionally climb but i dont give her much room to climb about 1 and a half her body length in height,i keep mine in one of these half filled with sub,come in many sizes to suit you 2 and have a mesh lid,great for a grammostola   http://www.reptilepetsupplies.co.uk/vivariums/glass-vivariums/perfecto-glass-reptile-habitats/
just thort i would show you mite be what your looking for


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## Robin Da Hood (Jun 28, 2011)

Damn, my head hurts with all this info!:evil:


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