# My slings like fishfood...



## Exo (Jan 31, 2010)

I discovered that my Nhandu slings will eat fishflake! I ran out of baby crickets and mealworms yesterday and my Nhandu slings needed to eat, so I thought I'd try something. I took some beta flakes and added a drop of water and formed them into a little ball, then I but this ball in front of their burrows. I checked on them an hour later an found them eating the food I left for them. I think I may start feeding them this once in a while since it is very high in protien and is completely digestable. (There was no bolus)

I've never heard of anybody doing this before so I figured I'd share this with everybody here.


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## xhexdx (Jan 31, 2010)

I think they should successfully molt at least once before we deem this acceptable.


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## Ariel (Jan 31, 2010)

xhexdx said:


> I think they should successfully molt at least once before we deem this acceptable.


I agree. but it doesn't suprise me to terribly much. betta fishfood is usually just dried up blood worms.


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## Exo (Jan 31, 2010)

xhexdx said:


> I think they should successfully molt at least once before we deem this acceptable.


I suppose, one of them should molt soon anyway. 


But the thing is that many people feed their feeder insects fishflake anyway,(Myself included) so their tarantulas eat it indirectly.


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## xhexdx (Jan 31, 2010)

True.

Well, let us know how it goes.


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## Exo (Jan 31, 2010)

xhexdx said:


> True.
> 
> Well, let us know how it goes.


Sure, keep in mind that I only plan to supplement their diet with it, I'm still going to feed them mostly bugs. I think of it as giving my growing slings "vitamins".


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## xhexdx (Jan 31, 2010)

It'd be interesting to know if they actually benefit from these 'supplements'...do you have any slings you could experiment with?  Keep a control group that you only feed insects, and a group you supplement with the beta food?  Might be interesting.


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## Exo (Jan 31, 2010)

xhexdx said:


> It'd be interesting to know if they actually benefit from these 'supplements'...do you have any slings you could experiment with?  Keep a control group that you only feed insects, and a group you supplement with the beta food?  Might be interesting.


Well, I have 3 B.vagans slings (2 were freebies), I suppose I could feed one of them only fishfood for a month or two and keep the others on just bugs.


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## shanebp (Jan 31, 2010)

This sounds like a great experiment, i'm also interested to know how this will turn out!


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## Ariel (Jan 31, 2010)

what if you did one with straight insects, one with straight fishfood and one with a combination of the two? Just a thought. I'm really interested to see where this goes.


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## PrimalTaunt (Jan 31, 2010)

Ariel said:


> what if you did one with straight insects, one with straight fishfood and one with a combination of the two? Just a thought. I'm really interested to see where this goes.


Winner.  :clap:


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## splangy (Jan 31, 2010)

Wow... what a great science fair project for a kid... almost makes me want to go out and buy a bunch of Ts so my niece and nephew have something really cool to research!


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## Exo (Jan 31, 2010)

Ariel said:


> what if you did one with straight insects, one with straight fishfood and one with a combination of the two? Just a thought. I'm really interested to see where this goes.


I think I might just try that. 


On an interesting side note, since the flakes are bright red it would appear that they have made my Nhandu cromatus's abdomen turn pink. This is similar to how you can see through pinhead crickets and tell what they have been eating. So if anything, I've figured out how to make a sling change colors!


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## nhdjoseywales (Jan 31, 2010)

the problem i see with this experiment is that the groups are made up of single specimens. it will be difficult if not impossible to determine what effects are a result of diet and what are just particular to that individual spider. you really need more than one subject in a group to get an idea of what is going on.


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## PrimalTaunt (Jan 31, 2010)

Exo said:


> I think I might just try that.
> 
> 
> On an interesting side note, since the flakes are bright red it would appear that they have made my Nhandu cromatus's abdomen turn pink.


Pics please!


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## gumby (Jan 31, 2010)

I think the whole thing would be better if you used 9 slings 3 for each of the above mentioned groups. You should also use a subject that molts more often like an LP. Something like like a brachy mitght not molt for a long time and it seems as though the more often they molt the better the data collected would be. Id also increase the time to at least 6 months to a year.


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## Exo (Jan 31, 2010)

nhdjoseywales said:


> the problem i see with this experiment is that the groups are made up of single specimens. it will be difficult if not impossible to determine what effects are a result of diet and what are just particular to that individual spider. you really need more than one subject in a group to get an idea of what is going on.


Sorry, I just dont have enough slings of the same species for that. 

Anybody else want to try it?


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## Exo (Jan 31, 2010)

PrimalTaunt said:


> Pics please!


I tried that, he runs in his burrow when I take the lid off and I can't get a decent pic through the container, too dark or too much glare. :wall:


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## PrimalTaunt (Jan 31, 2010)

Exo said:


> I tried that, he runs in his burrow when I take the lid off and I can't get a decent pic through the container, too dark or too much glare. :wall:


That's a little disappointing but seems to be pretty much par for the course when somebody has something interesting to show.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Exo (Jan 31, 2010)

PrimalTaunt said:


> That's a little disappointing but seems to be pretty much par for the course when somebody has something interesting to show.


Well, if my butt turned pink I wouldn't want people posting pics of it either!


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## PrimalTaunt (Jan 31, 2010)

Exo said:


> Well, if my butt turned pink I wouldn't want people posting pics of it either!


Lol!  Good point there.

If somebody were to try this, what mixture would you use for the group that was getting both crickets/roaches and fishfood?  Switch every other feeding between the two or a different combo?


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## Exo (Jan 31, 2010)

PrimalTaunt said:


> Switch every other feeding between the two


That sounds about right.


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## xhexdx (Jan 31, 2010)

I have some extra OBTs, Exo.  Pay shipping and they're yours.


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## Teal (Feb 1, 2010)

*I happen to have 19 G. rosea slings...

lol

But like with the Brachys, they probably grow too slow for this experiment. I was planning on doing an experiment with them anyways, very controlled and similar climates to see how closely they all grow... this fish food theory has me intrigued! *


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## forrestpengra (Feb 1, 2010)

The only thing that would be cooler is if they ate Big Macs... That would fatten them up quick!!!


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## Teal (Feb 1, 2010)

forrestpengra said:


> The only thing that would be cooler is if they ate Big Macs... That would fatten them up quick!!!


*

Hasn't worked for me, personally, so far 

lol *


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## Exo (Feb 1, 2010)

xhexdx said:


> I have some extra OBTs, Exo.  Pay shipping and they're yours.


No thanks, I have my hands full with a LP that acts like one, the last thing I need is a T that has the venom to back up the attitude.


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## PrimalTaunt (Feb 4, 2010)

Sorry to raise this thread from the dead but I just got to thinking about this thread at work today (we were pretty slow so I had some time on my hands to mull things over in my mind since the company I work for doesn't like people using cell phones/surfing of the internet/anything not directly work related... so I just sat and thought when not working).

It still really boggles me that they'd even take wet flakes rolled into a ball.  It doesn't seem like it would register as food when there are so many cases of Ts not taking things like roaches and other things that obviously could be prey for them. (Or at least seem as though it would be obvious... who's to say how the T decides what is food and not.  I'm certainly in no spot to).

I really hope that some people who have slings to spare try this out for themselves so we can see if it was a fluke or if it's actually viable.  (Or if you don't want to I'd be happy to pay for shipping once the Wisconsin weather heats up ).

Just had to get that out.


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## ZergFront (Feb 5, 2010)

Exo said:


> Well, if my butt turned pink I wouldn't want people posting pics of it either!


 Yet they have no problem with us taking pictures and posting them of their "manhood"/"lady parts." 



forrestpengra said:


> The only thing that would be cooler is if they ate Big Macs... That would fatten them up quick!!!


 "Supersize Me." The Arachnid Edition. 

 On the note of them taking these flake balls, they do have a strong smell. I suppose it would smell like food to a tarantula. Fish flakes almost smell like bugs to me with a hint of plant material. 

 Had weirder things happen. A caterpillar that ate a tiny piece of Hersey bar that melted and a true spider that fed on honey. An OBT experiment to start (since they reproduce so much and are cheap compared to others anyway) might prove interesting. They are tough little buggers.

 Who has OBTs to give/sell to the OP?


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## Exo (Feb 5, 2010)

PrimalTaunt said:


> Sorry to raise this thread from the dead but I just got to thinking about this thread at work today (we were pretty slow so I had some time on my hands to mull things over in my mind since the company I work for doesn't like people using cell phones/surfing of the internet/anything not directly work related... so I just sat and thought when not working).
> 
> It still really boggles me that they'd even take wet flakes rolled into a ball.  It doesn't seem like it would register as food when there are so many cases of Ts not taking things like roaches and other things that obviously could be prey for them. (Or at least seem as though it would be obvious... who's to say how the T decides what is food and not.  I'm certainly in no spot to).
> 
> ...



I have since dicovered that they will eat frozen/thawed bloodworms too, even my 5in LP will eat them. It would appear that it doesn't have to move for them to percieve it as food.


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## xhexdx (Feb 5, 2010)

ZergFront said:


> Who has OBTs to give/sell to the OP?


Well, if you had actually read the *entire* thread }):



xhexdx said:


> I have some extra OBTs, Exo.  Pay shipping and they're yours.


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## ZergFront (Feb 5, 2010)

xhexdx said:


> Well, if you had actually read the *entire* thread }):


 I did, don't know if you were seriously thinking of it. Plus, what bitey thing _don't_ you have? ;P


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## xhexdx (Feb 5, 2010)

Hmm...no comment.


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## biomarine2000 (Feb 5, 2010)

What an interesting thread.  Keep us updated on the progress of the little slings.


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## BCscorp (Feb 5, 2010)

Somewhere on AB is pics of a T eating a green pea.
The fish flakes is interesting!


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## PrimalTaunt (Feb 5, 2010)

Exo said:


> I have since dicovered that they will eat frozen/thawed bloodworms too, even my 5in LP will eat them.


The bloodworms or the balls of flakes?  The not moving part I've known for a while because I've fed prekilled crickets to slings before and had them take them only after an hour of being there.

I'm thinking that something that's not quite so heavy of a webber would probably be better for an experiment like this just for the fact that pictoral documentation would be nice.


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## ZergFront (Feb 5, 2010)

PrimalTaunt said:


> I'm thinking that something that's not quite so heavy of a webber would probably be better for an experiment like this just for the fact that pictoral documentation would be nice.


 I didn't even think of that but it's a very good point.. still should be an inexpensive set of tarantulas, though..


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## PrimalTaunt (Feb 5, 2010)

ZergFront said:


> I didn't even think of that but it's a very good point.. still should be an inexpensive set of tarantulas, though..


L. parahybana is the one that springs to mind.


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## Exo (Feb 5, 2010)

PrimalTaunt said:


> The bloodworms or the balls of flakes?


Both, actually.


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## LisaD (Feb 7, 2010)

Hi, I'm pretty new to the boards, but not to Ts.  I'm a biologist, and I think I've found a kid in sixth grade to do this study, with my help.

My daughter is slowly getting into Ts and is interested in a science fair project.  Last year, she won school and county and placed in regionals for an experiment with her hedgehog.  She set up a bike odometer on its wheel and logged how much it ran and and ate, relative to being bathed or not, every few days.    She probably would have gone further, had it not been a one subject experiment, and her first time.

She's interested in doing this, as long as I help, especially with the handling.  She's not comfortable handling Ts and I don't really want her messing with slings yet.  I will pay the shipping if someone has available and is willing to send me some fast growing, hardy, cheap Ts, like OBTs.

I propose the following treatments, at least 4-10 slings (depending on availability) per treatment.  All set up in identical enclosures:

Treatments:
1)  Insects only - mainly crickets
2)  Alternate insects with flake food/frozen bloodworms 
3)  Flake/frozen bloodworm only

Record:
1)  Min/max temperature of room with slings (weekly)
2)  When food offered, amount/qty and when/if accepted
3)  Date of molts, size of molts
4)  Mortality, if any
5)  Relative size estimates

If this plan sounds good, the study would require 12-30 slings.  I'd prefer to start the study after at least the first molt.

What do you think?

EDIT:  To make it a fairer test, I wonder Treatment 1 should be the control, and if there should be two other treatments added, such as  "cricket soup" and "cricket soup mixed with flake/bloodworms"? Treatment 2 would be more like supplementation, if live insects were offered every other feeding.  In that case, with 5 treatments, that would be a minimum of 20 slings if you had 4/trt.

For a test like this, two feedings a week okay?


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## Exo (Feb 7, 2010)

LisaD said:


> Hi, I'm pretty new to the boards, but not to Ts.  I'm a biologist, and I think I've found a kid in sixth grade to do this study, with my help.
> 
> My daughter is slowly getting into Ts and is interested in a science fair project.  Last year, she won school and county and placed in regionals for an experiment with her hedgehog.  She set up a bike odometer on its wheel and logged how much it ran and and ate, relative to being bathed or not, every few days.    She probably would have gone further, had it not been a one subject experiment, and her first time.
> 
> ...


Sounds interesting, and I think that two feedings a week would be good. Just make sure that you don't feed the crickets fishfood or it will defeat the purpose of the experiment.


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## LisaD (Feb 7, 2010)

Are you still feeding yours fish food?  If so, are they doing well?  Do you remember the brand of betta flake you offered?


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## Nerri1029 (Feb 7, 2010)

nhdjoseywales said:


> the problem i see with this experiment is that the groups are made up of single specimens. it will be difficult if not impossible to determine what effects are a result of diet and what are just particular to that individual spider. you really need more than one subject in a group to get an idea of what is going on.


Yes Sample size is very underrated, too easy to form conclusions based on data from too few subjects.

and this kind of thing is one of the big reasons I love this hobby.

I would like to add/change something.
INSTEAD of size of molts, which is very difficult to measure accurately, I suggest measuring the carapace of the exuvium. ( 2 reasons, you can do so with much more precision ( the same way every time ) and this part is almost always left over even when slings/juvies "munch" the exuvium.


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## Exo (Feb 7, 2010)

LisaD said:


> Are you still feeding yours fish food?  If so, are they doing well?  Do you remember the brand of betta flake you offered?


It is Tetra "Betamin" tropical medley, and I'm still feeding it to them. They appear to be doing really well and one of them is about to molt any day now. (the Nhandu coloratovillosus)


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## LisaD (Feb 7, 2010)

> I would like to add/change something.
> INSTEAD of size of molts, which is very difficult to measure accurately, I suggest measuring the carapace of the exuvium. ( 2 reasons, you can do so with much more precision ( the same way every time ) and this part is almost always left over even when slings/juvies "munch" the exuvium.


That makes a lot of sense, thanks.


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## xhexdx (Feb 8, 2010)

I'll have to count them up, but I think I can swing 20 OBT slings for this experiment.

--Joe


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## Adversary (Feb 8, 2010)

Sounds like an interesting experiment. I'll have to keep my eye on this.


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## super-pede (Feb 8, 2010)

*fish food*

Iv'e tried this with my t's but it didn't work


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## Exo (Feb 8, 2010)

super-pede said:


> Iv'e tried this with my t's but it didn't work


Weird, mine are addicted to the stuff. :?


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## PrimalTaunt (Feb 8, 2010)

super-pede said:


> Iv'e tried this with my t's but it didn't work


Did you use the same method that Exo did or did you just sprinkle it in?  What type were you using?  What Ts?


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## RedDragonfly (Feb 8, 2010)

A good thing to remember about any experiment is that even one which doesn't support your original hypothesis is not a failure.  In fact, sometimes, the better the experiment, the more questions you will have following the experiment.  

One thing to make sure to do in setting up an experiment is to make sure you have clearly defined the variables you will be measuring.  

Personally, I would recommend keeping a daily record of temperature and humidity.  If you have a reliable digital thermometer and hydrometer in each viv, you may obtain more clear environmental data which should be helpful in reporting your results.

Personally, if I were setting this up and had the ability to set up camera for recording the ts nocternal behaviors, it would be something I would consider edoing.  In setting up any science fair type experiment, videos are amazing to have as an additional exhibit.


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## RedDragonfly (Feb 8, 2010)

I don't have any data to add specific to T's as to the effects of varying foods and colorin.  However, when dealing with poison dart frogs - and something that is also considered in dealing with fish, there are supplements which heighten oranges and yellows which may well be in the betta food.  My guess is that it wouldn't be likely to affect inverts the same way though.


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## Nerri1029 (Feb 8, 2010)

RedDragonfly said:


> A good thing to remember about any experiment is that even one which doesn't support your original hypothesis is not a failure.  In fact, sometimes, the better the experiment, the more questions you will have following the experiment.
> 
> One thing to make sure to do in setting up an experiment is to make sure you have clearly defined the variables you will be measuring.
> 
> ...


Actually it's Hygrometer.
a Hydrometer measures the liquids density (used in urine testing and beer making- not the same one though  )


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## Exo (Feb 28, 2010)

Just an update for you, my N.chromatus molted this past friday and seems to be doing great. It was fed almost exclusively on fishfood since it's previous molt and has gained about 1/4 of an inch. Also, I'm not sure if this is normal or not but it seems to have gained it's full adult coloring and it's only 1". 

So far it seems that fishfood is a viable feeding option.


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## robd (Feb 28, 2010)

That's very interesting. I might give an experiment like that a shot once I hatch out an egg sac or something.


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## ZergFront (Feb 28, 2010)

robd said:


> That's very interesting. I might give an experiment like that a shot once I hatch out an egg sac or something.


 I was thinking I'd do something like that, too. I got to get some OBTs or H.macs some time...


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## PrimalTaunt (Feb 28, 2010)

I think that there's more than a few of us thinking of doing this and there's nothing wrong with that.  In fact, if multiple tests get the same results that would be great.  I'm personally thinking of using an LP or a Nhandu species due to their relatively quick growths and lack of webbing (which would benefit photo documentation).


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## presurcukr (Feb 28, 2010)

nhdjoseywales said:


> the problem i see with this experiment is that the groups are made up of single specimens. it will be difficult if not impossible to determine what effects are a result of diet and what are just particular to that individual spider. you really need more than one subject in a group to get an idea of what is going on.


Well I have 30 A.sp mozambique slings I can do this with 10 each???


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## nhdjoseywales (Feb 28, 2010)

presurcukr said:


> Well I have 30 A.sp mozambique slings I can do this with 10 each???


i would think so, yes.


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## Czalz (Feb 28, 2010)

*Supplements*

I had a group of B. smithi slings that I did some enzyme experiments with a few years ago, but my lazy butt never logged any of the data. However, I was convinced the slings that were eating the enzyme enriched roaches were growing at a faster rate. I stopped the supplements after they reached about 2.5", and I had to sell all of my stuff, but it was a fun experiment. 

I am trying to locate the company that I bought that particular blend of enzymes from, so I can try it again and actually log the information this time. I found them at one of the events here at the OKC fairgrounds, but it's been so long I can't remember the name of the company. 

Anyhow, I am just rambling now, but I would be very interested in your findings. It interests me that you say there was no bolus after your sling ate the fish flakes. That is pretty much the concept behind the enzyme experiments too. The more that the tarantula can digest, the bigger/faster it can grow.


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## nhdjoseywales (Feb 28, 2010)

czalzsmith said:


> I had a group of B. smithi slings that I did some enzyme experiments with a few years ago, but my lazy butt never logged any of the data. However, I was convinced the slings that were eating the enzyme enriched roaches were growing at a faster rate. I stopped the supplements after they reached about 2.5", and I had to sell all of my stuff, but it was a fun experiment.
> 
> I am trying to locate the company that I bought that particular blend of enzymes from, so I can try it again and actually log the information this time. I found them at one of the events here at the OKC fairgrounds, but it's been so long I can't remember the name of the company.
> 
> Anyhow, I am just rambling now, but I would be very interested in your findings. It interests me that you say there was no bolus after your sling ate the fish flakes. That is pretty much the concept behind the enzyme experiments too. The more that the tarantula can digest, the bigger/faster it can grow.


as long as your ramblings are this interesting you can ramble all you want


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## ZergFront (Feb 28, 2010)

I had to go back and read because at first I thought czalzsmith was giving them Enzyte (not ENZYMES). I really need my eyes checked...:wall:


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## SDiego (Feb 28, 2010)

Exo said:


> I discovered that my Nhandu slings will eat fishflake! I ran out of baby crickets and mealworms yesterday and my Nhandu slings needed to eat, so I thought I'd try something. I took some beta flakes and added a drop of water and formed them into a little ball, then I but this ball in front of their burrows.


Will any kind of fish food work?  What is "beta flakes"?  Any fish food I should stay away from?

Also, how moist/wet was the food ball?

Don't know anything about fish, other than which filets I prefer when at the farmer's market.


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## nhdjoseywales (Feb 28, 2010)

ZergFront said:


> I had to go back and read because at first I thought czalzsmith was giving them Enzyte (not ENZYMES). I really need my eyes checked...:wall:


would that make for a more "potent" tarantula?


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## Exo (Mar 1, 2010)

SDiego said:


> Will any kind of fish food work?  What is "beta flakes"?  Any fish food I should stay away from?
> 
> Also, how moist/wet was the food ball?
> 
> Don't know anything about fish, other than which filets I prefer when at the farmer's market.


Beta flakes are a type of flake food specificaly formulated for siamese fighting fish or "Betas". they are bright red and higher in protien than most fish foods.
The food ball was moist enough that it had the consistancy of playdough.


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## SDiego (Mar 1, 2010)

Exo said:


> Beta flakes are a type of flake food specificaly formulated for siamese fighting fish or "Betas". they are bright red and higher in protien than most fish foods.
> The food ball was moist enough that it had the consistancy of playdough.


Thank you, I'm going to try this.


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## scottyk (Mar 1, 2010)

Another option for doing this on a larger scale would be stealing another aquarium based idea: 

Homemade gel food cubes:

Start with powdered gelatin as a binding agent. Mix up some different fish flakes and even an assortment of crushed up insects. You then mix it into the gelatin, freeze it and cut it into whatever sized cubes you desire. Once sealed in ziplock bags they stay good in the freezer for quite a long time.

Once thawed, they have a similar texture to what you are doing manually with the flakes. They are also a bit more convenient and offer a medium to provide a greater variety of ingredients.

The gelatin is similar to what water crystals are made of, and poses no danger to the tarantula. The flakes already have binders in them anyway. I've fed gel foods to snails, shrimps and other invertebrates and they thrived on them...

Just throwing it out there as another possibility....


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## GiantVinegaroon (Mar 2, 2010)

Am I the only one who has noticed that almost any arthropod will eat fish food?  I haven't tried offering fish food to my spiders, but I've never had an insect or crustacean refuse fish flakes, and I even had a centipede(Lithobius sp.) take fish food!

I haven't fed my fishing spider in awhile...maybe I'll offer a flake and see what happens.


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## Exo (Mar 2, 2010)

scottyk said:


> Another option for doing this on a larger scale would be stealing another aquarium based idea:
> 
> Homemade gel food cubes:
> 
> ...


That's a great idea, I think I might try this tonight and see if it works.


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## pouchedrat (Mar 2, 2010)

I feed my T's and true spiders almost exclusively frozen/thawed already (both adults and slings, and my three little scorpions eat this way as well).  I'm actually curious about the gelatin experiment.  

It might be interesting to try myself, although the only mass amount of a single species of slings I have right now are my Hogna helluo, and although they'd grow far faster than some T's would, I'd rather try it on T's.  

Hmm, time to buy a small group of 10 or so cheap slings and experiment on them... heh.   Maybe B. albop or A. hentzi?  It would make for a very LONG experiment, though, lol.


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## scottyk (Mar 3, 2010)

Exo said:


> That's a great idea, I think I might try this tonight and see if it works.


Let me know what kind of results you get. Looks like I'm moving again in April, so I'll start experimenting with this when I get settled in. Anything I make now will be getting thrown away in a few weeks...


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## pwilson5 (Mar 3, 2010)

would be interesting to try this with a really vibrant T... ill start trying it with my Versi... lol


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## Exo (Mar 4, 2010)

scottyk said:


> Let me know what kind of results you get. Looks like I'm moving again in April, so I'll start experimenting with this when I get settled in. Anything I make now will be getting thrown away in a few weeks...


Well, I tried the gell-food and they appear to have eaten it! I had fishfood, bloodworms and mashed cricket in them and it seems like they really like them. :drool:


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## pouchedrat (Mar 4, 2010)

That's pretty awesome.  I'm recieving 20 B. vagans spiderlings eventually and half will be my control, the other half will be tried with fish food and see what happens.  It'll be a long experiment, but I'm going to record everything, from who eats and who doesn't, pictures, when each one molts, etc.  

I think it'll be interesting to see the results, if there is a difference or not.  Especially with something that long-lived.


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## scottyk (Mar 4, 2010)

Exo said:


> Well, I tried the gell-food and they appear to have eaten it! I had fishfood, bloodworms and mashed cricket in them and it seems like they really like them. :drool:



Excellent! :clap:

I have a few pounds of high end pellet foods in the freezer and a booming colony of mealworms. I think once I get settled in I'll try adding them to some some mashed crickets and roaches and see what I can concoct.

I'll add pics and feedback directly to this thread!

Scott


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## LadySharon (Mar 5, 2010)

I'm very interested in this.

I have a co-worker (one of my bosses acctually)  who likes T's... but every other insect on the planet is "icky"   In otherwords... she can't deal with a cricket or a roach or anything else you normally would feed T's.

She said "Isn't there something I can just sprinkle in the cage" (I immidatly thought of thouse gell thigns you feed crickets - that's what the instructions say)

Well I mentioned this thread to her... and she's kept beta's before so she knows about the flakes... and would be fine feeding altered flakes or small gell cubes where you can't TELL that there are insects in there.  

But of course with her the spider would be living exclusively on these so... I'd like to know the results of this experiment first.  

This ALSO would be very helpful in emergency situations if you can get a T used to eating both this type of food item and normal moving insects.   It would allow people to keep a supply of food for times they may not be able to easly get feeder insects.

I wish I could participate.. but I'm in a one bedroom condo right now.  So this would go under "when I get a house".   

Maybe if I succesfully mate my red phase roseies.  (though they grow slow).

Keep us posted!

- Sharon


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## micheldied (Mar 5, 2010)

i think i might try a soaked massivore pellet.
i'll let you guys kow how it goes.


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## nhdjoseywales (Mar 9, 2010)

i tried dried baby shrimp this morning, so far one sling does seem to be munching on it


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## TheTyro (Mar 9, 2010)

I think i'm going to try this with my true spiders, the Phidippus regius babies.


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## matthias (Mar 9, 2010)

hmm a reason TO breed my para. This could make keeping large number's of T's a lot easier and cheaper.
My guess is that once they hit a certain size they will stop taking the "dead" stuff.


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## pouchedrat (Mar 10, 2010)

Well as far as i can tell, ALL of the slings I offered fishflake food gelled have eaten it!  At first I thought some didn't, but I noticed their abdomens had an orange hue to it compared to the ones who ate tiny mealworms or crickets.  They just didn't finish the food although most was gone by day 2 (the type of fishfood I selected is chernobyl orange in color, and color enhancing, I just want to see if it works or not).  

That's pretty amazing.  ALL slings are doing great and are active.  We'll see if it effects the development negatively or positively or AT ALL


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## Bosing (Mar 10, 2010)

I hope to see pictures of the slings that are feeding on colored fish food...  Please post some.


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## nhdjoseywales (Mar 10, 2010)

well so far only number 38 seems to be eating the shrimp, but the rest just might not be hungry, they havent been eating crickets either for a week or so and may all be in premolt or full from initial feedings. this is pretty exciting "research" since it may mean the end of slings killed by forgotten or hidden live prey that come out of hiding when the sling molts

am i the only one who has tiny crickets hide in the coco coir from time to time?


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## Exo (Mar 10, 2010)

pouchedrat said:


> Well as far as i can tell, ALL of the slings I offered fishflake food gelled have eaten it!  At first I thought some didn't, but I noticed their abdomens had an orange hue to it compared to the ones who ate tiny mealworms or crickets.  They just didn't finish the food although most was gone by day 2 (the type of fishfood I selected is chernobyl orange in color, and color enhancing, I just want to see if it works or not).
> 
> That's pretty amazing.  ALL slings are doing great and are active.  We'll see if it effects the development negatively or positively or AT ALL


I told ya that they like fishflake!


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## ametan (Mar 10, 2010)

Think I'm going to give this a try. I've got a tiny "New River" rust rump that I've had for weeks now and it won't eat anything I've tried to give it...


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## SypheRrr (Mar 10, 2010)

Well i see here are some guys already experimenting so i suppose its a good idea to make a new thread and post the basic info with some pics if possible and make it a sticky threat because its really interesting topic but it will take much more time for some of the experiments  and it'll be good to have the results in one place.


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## ametan (Mar 11, 2010)

*Tried it.*

Some things worth mentioning: 
-The smell is pretty overpowering.
-Forming the little balls is quite a messy/sticky operation.

Anyone have any suggestions on better ways to make the balls?


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## nhdjoseywales (Mar 11, 2010)

ametan said:


> Some things worth mentioning:
> -The smell is pretty overpowering.
> -Forming the little balls is quite a messy/sticky operation.
> 
> Anyone have any suggestions on better ways to make the balls?


do the gelatin method, it still smells like fish food but its probably easier to make portions. i agree trying to make balls from wet fishfood just sucks


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## Exo (Mar 11, 2010)

ametan said:


> Some things worth mentioning:
> -The smell is pretty overpowering.
> -Forming the little balls is quite a messy/sticky operation.
> 
> Anyone have any suggestions on better ways to make the balls?


Well, it smells better than mashed crickets...


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## nhdjoseywales (Mar 11, 2010)

Exo said:


> Well, it smells better than mashed crickets...


or live s crickets too for that matter


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## pouchedrat (Mar 11, 2010)

I froze the gelatin mold and then broke it up frozen before plopping it into the enclosures.  That seemed to work well.


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## nhdjoseywales (Mar 11, 2010)

i realize i sound like a moron because i failed at making jello, but can anyone post a recipe with exact measurements of how they made this? i used 2 packets of unflavored gelatin, about a half cup of cold water and 1 and a half cups or so of boiling water, added a lot of fish food and some dried shrimp then poured that in a pan and set it in the freezer. it was too frozen to cut so i thawed it out some and instead of being jello its soupy. yes i suck at cooking. please help 

maybe i didnt let the gelatin dissolve long enough in the hot water maybe


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## LadySharon (Mar 11, 2010)

Hi.  I second NhdJosey's question.

But I have more... what exact BRAND are you guys using?  I'm looking on petsmart and I see betta bites and I see betta omaga betta flakes....

I may try this - though not sure about a formal experiment yet.   But if the flakes themselves are a pain to work with ... well I have NO IDEA how to do the gel.  What to buy or WHERE to buy or how to make it.

CAn people start giving exact stats on what they are doing?  What brands of stuff they are using etc?

Thanks.
- Sharon


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## nhdjoseywales (Mar 12, 2010)

i tried again last night usng 1 packet of gelatin, 1/2 a cup of cold water, let that sit a minute or two while finishing heating the other water, then poured in 1.5 cups of boiling water. stirred and let it dissolve a bit then poured in a good bit of pulverized fish food and put it in the fridge. turned out the consistency i wanted but the fish food sank to the bottom so i will probably chunk most of the top layer and just use the bottom. altho i probably been to check the texture and consistency of the bottom before i make that statement


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## gmrpnk21 (Mar 30, 2011)

I wish I would have seen this thread before I bought a starter colony of discoids...


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## PrimalTaunt (Mar 30, 2011)

gmrpnk21 said:


> I wish I would have seen this thread before I bought a starter colony of discoids...


Maybe not so much.  I literally just ran into a situation like Exo had in that I won't be able to get crickets until Saturday when I remembered this thread.  So I bought some betta flakes from my LPS, brought it home, added water, formed it into a ball (which looked/smelled like a small chunk of moist dog food), and, two hour later, it's still in my G. pulchripes container and nothing.  I'll leave it in there overnight and take it out in the morning if it's still there.


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## LeilaNami (Mar 30, 2011)

This is interesting but Exo's results aren't going to be conclusive as the experiment is still very unstructured.  I would suggest someone doing a more rigid experiment that knows statistics and how to set up a properly controlled system should do this experiment.  If I had lab space, I would.  I'll be getting some though probably in the next couple of years but I don't know if they'll let me do this along side my dissertation experiments.  

So far there's a lot of issues with the amount of food being given to the slings, the temperatures, etc.  There are lots of things that can affect the Ts growth.


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## Mez (Mar 31, 2011)

Since most, if not all protein in aquarium flakes is fish based, i'll keep feeding crickets and cricket parts.


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## Scolopeon (Mar 31, 2011)

PrimalTaunt said:


> Winner.  :clap:


You are WINNING with this quote!

LOL


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## Hamburglar (Mar 31, 2011)

PrimalTaunt said:


> Maybe not so much.  I literally just ran into a situation like Exo had in that I won't be able to get crickets until Saturday when I remembered this thread.  So I bought some betta flakes from my LPS, brought it home, added water, formed it into a ball (which looked/smelled like a small chunk of moist dog food), and, two hour later, it's still in my G. pulchripes container and nothing.  I'll leave it in there overnight and take it out in the morning if it's still there.



You might be able to stimulate a feeding response by dropping it directly in front of the spider simulating a prey item falling.  I wasn't sure if you did that or not by your post.


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## malhomme (Apr 1, 2011)

scottyk said:


> The gelatin is similar to what water crystals are made of, and poses no danger to the tarantula. The flakes already have binders in them anyway. I've fed gel foods to snails, shrimps and other invertebrates and they thrived on them.


I think you've made an great suggestion to try using gelatin.

I'm not busting chops, just pointing this out in case someone tries making this out of water crystals: gelatin and "water crystals" are not the same thing at all.  Gelatin is food safe and "water crystals" are not.

"Water crystals" are polyacrylamide, i.e. polymerized acrylamide.  Acrylamide is a neurotoxin which remains unpolymerized (in small amounts) in these gels.  This is why it's not food safe.

Gelatin, on the other hand, is a form of collagen that is obviously wholesome.  Agar would make an acceptable vegan substitute for gelatin, should anyone be concerned about feeding critters to their spider.

I hope this helps.  Again, great idea Scott.


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## esotericman (Apr 2, 2011)

malhomme said:


> "Water crystals" are polyacrylamide, i.e. polymerized acrylamide.  Acrylamide is a neurotoxin which remains unpolymerized (in small amounts) in these gels.  This is why it's not food safe.


I've been saying that for years, but folks want to ignore it.  I wouldn't be shocked to find out it's the reason behind "dyskinetic syndrome".

Gelatin is used in many frozen fish foods, mostly for marine fish.


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## JC (Apr 2, 2011)

esotericman said:


> I've been saying that for years, but folks want to ignore it.  I wouldn't be shocked to find out it's the reason behind "dyskinetic syndrome".


+1

But as far as I am concerned, the most likely cause of DKS are airborne chemicals.


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## LeilaNami (Apr 2, 2011)

JC said:


> +1
> 
> But as far as I am concerned, the most likely cause of DKS are airborne chemicals.


I've spoken with one of my professors on DKS.  While there can be numerous reasons he mostly witnesses DKS when the spider is dehydrated to the point that it can't recover.


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## micheldied (Apr 2, 2011)

esotericman said:


> I've been saying that for years, but folks want to ignore it.  I wouldn't be shocked to find out it's the reason behind "dyskinetic syndrome".
> 
> Gelatin is used in many frozen fish foods, mostly for marine fish.


Wow, I didn't know that. Thank you.
But we supply our feeders with these their entire lives(til' they get eaten, of course), and then we feed them to our Ts and such?


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## esotericman (Apr 2, 2011)

Exactly.  I've been saying it for years, I suppose I could find the posts... but yes, the ASSUMPTION is that all chemical is harmless because it is polymerized.  

Dehydration and heat shock both have been well supported for the imaginary "disease" DKS, the issue are those animals which are not dehydrated, nor over heated, nor immatures (removing genetic/developmental issues).

Back to the thread topic, how are the experiments going to separate the "food" source being fish food or the gelatin?  Gelatin as noted is a water carrier.  What control is being proposed for that?

If we're going "to do" science, let's not muck around.  Controls and sample size, a thing which even post-docs often need to have explained to them.


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## malhomme (Apr 2, 2011)

*Polyacrylamide*

Even if the risk is low, I certainly wouldn't eat a helping of it everyday.  That's why I stopped giving it to my dubias.


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## PrimalTaunt (Apr 3, 2011)

Forgot to update here, the betta flakes failed for me.   I'll still keep them around though in case the LPS runs out of crickets again.


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