# Miami corn vs. Eastern milk



## AviculariaLover (Jun 3, 2007)

So. My boyfriend's uncle is completely utterly convinced he has caught a miami phase cornsnake near his home in upstate NY. 

I *KNOW* it is an eastern milksnake. It's just painfully obvious to me. I'll take a picture next time I visit... but... it looked almost exactly like this except it had  more reddish hue to the saddles (a snake I caught some time ago):






Aside from the difference in markings (the milks have rounder blotches with more distinct black ridges, and there are lots of black markings on the face, while the corns do not have any), and the different in head shape (corns are more elongated and triangular, milks are more stubby looking)... does anyone know of any other things I could look for to definitively tell the difference between the two to finally convince him?

And do miami phase corn snakes even live as far as Warrensburg NY?


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## Beardo (Jun 3, 2007)

Most definitely an Eastern Milksnake. Corn Snakes do not occur north of my state, Kentucky. 

In fact, New York does not have any native Rat Snakes.


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## Takumaku (Jun 3, 2007)

Check the anal plate on the snake.

If the anal plate is single, then it's a "milksnake".

If the anal plate is divided, then it's a "ratsnake".


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## Takumaku (Jun 3, 2007)

DavidBeard said:


> Most definitely an Eastern Milksnake. Corn Snakes do not occur north of my state, Kentucky.
> 
> In fact, New York does not have any native Rat Snakes.


Actually, black rat snakes (Elaphe obsoleta obsoleta) are natively found in NY.


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## AviculariaLover (Jun 3, 2007)

Yeah, I was going to say, we get black rat snakes. I caught one once at a birthday party in elementary school in some girls' backyard... haha... bunch of little girls running around screaming... good times...

Some people up here have been under the impression that we get corn snakes, albeit rarely. I'd like to be able to say for certain there is no possibility at all of corn snakes occuring in upstate NY... that would be correct?

I'll check the anal plate next time to see if that finally convinces him, hehe. That's the kind of detail I was looking for :clap: Harder to refute than "well the head is the wrong shape".


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## AviculariaLover (Jun 3, 2007)

Apparantly black rat snake juveniles greatly resemble corns, perhaps that's part of the reason for the confusion?

I checked a government list of new york's reptiles and corn snake isn't on there.


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## Drachenjager (Jun 4, 2007)

black rat snake AKA Texas rat snake


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## AviculariaLover (Jun 4, 2007)

Thats pretty neat, looks like a corn. Definitely looks different than the milk.

I can't wait to see my boyfriend's uncle again though and deliver the final blow.

I'd be willing to bet my life on the fact that his snake is an eastern milk snake :}


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## Only Exotics (Jun 4, 2007)

Yep it's an Eastern Milk we catch them here around Chicago as well


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## Beardo (Jun 4, 2007)

My bad on the no rat snakes in NY thing....I thought they didn't go that far North. 

Also....Black Rats (_Elaphe obsoleta obsoleta_) & Texas Rats (_Elaphe obsoleta lindheimeri_) are 2 different subspecies. 

Also....does it really need to be said that *Miami* phase Corn Snakes are not found in *New York*? lol


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## Only Exotics (Jun 4, 2007)

True that on the Black/Texas Rats Beardo plus the temperaments are a tad different


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## skinheaddave (Jun 4, 2007)

AviculariaLover said:


> Some people up here have been under the impression that we get corn snakes, albeit rarely.


Other than escaped captives, you are right in saying you won't get them that far North.  There is often no convincing people, though.  The other day I was phoned and asked what to do with a "rattlesnake" some lady had caught.  I was skeptical and asked if it actually had a rattle.  It did.  I pointed out that snakes will shake their tails and it can sometimes sound like a rattle if it is in leaf litter or whatnot.  Nope, they looked and this thing definitely had a rattle on the end of its tail.  

So they brought it in and it was, as I had guessed, a milk.  Even once I had picked it up with my bare hands, she didn't seem entirely convinced it wasn't a rattler at first.  

Here in Southern Ontario we also have puff adders (hognose), cottonmouths (water snakes) and rattlesnakes (massassauga rattlers, water snakes, hognose snakes, milk snakes, garter snakes, ribbon snakes, pieces of ribbon, old fan belts, odd shaped rocks, shoe laces etc.)

Cheers,
Dave


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## AviculariaLover (Jun 4, 2007)

Hehe yeah some people just dont want to hear that they are wrong.

The thing is, this guy is a 'snake guy' who has had plenty of snakes in his life, and has spent his life living in the woods... so he thinks he knows what he's talking about when it comes to snakes and the animals that live in his area.


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