# Psytalla horrida, your insights please?



## BoyFromLA (Jul 8, 2019)

I am getting four Psytalla horrida nymphs to get the colony going in the future, hopefully that is, I would love to get some more insights.

I’ve already asked @basin79 and he has shared good informations, but more the helpful it can be!

So if you have a colony going currently or if you had one of these in your past, please share your insights, knowledges with me.

Thank you in advance!

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## chanda (Jul 8, 2019)

I'm still getting my P. horrida colony going, but a few of the nymphs are at the subadult stage now - and so far, so good!  I am keeping them communally in small groups  (6, 5, and 3) so the larger ones are together and the smaller ones are in separate enclosures, but the smaller ones are growing fast and I'll probably transfer them to the big cage next week when I leave on a road trip with my kids, just because that means fewer enclosures for my husband to take care of for me. 

Care is basically the same as P. biguttatus  (which I have a thriving colony of already) - dryish substrate  (a mix of coconut fiber and topsoil), lots of cork slabs and tubes for climbing, hiding, and molting, and dump in a bunch of crickets every week. I also mist them and moisten one end of the substrate a couple of times a week. 

The biguttatus have canyon isopods and dermestid beetles in their substrate as a cleaning crew/snack bar, but I have not introduced them to the horrida because I wouldn't put it past them to eat some of the eggs. Not a big deal with the biguttatus - they're breeding like crazy - but I'd like to get the horrida established and breeding first before I introduce potentially egg-hungry cleaners.


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## BoyFromLA (Jul 8, 2019)

Thank you @chanda for your inputs, insights. That helped me lots.



chanda said:


> that means fewer enclosures for my husband to take care of for me.


Indeed!



chanda said:


> but I have not introduced them to the horrida because I wouldn't put it past them to eat some of the eggs.


Awesome insights!


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## 1Lord Of Ants1 (Jul 11, 2019)

I have around 20 nymphs of various sizes doing well and molting quickly. Pretty self explanatory insects to care for, and not much different care-wise from the slightly smaller species. 

I’ve been feeding mostly Blatta lateralis, but have found some of the smallest nymphs to be too slow to reliably catch roaches unless you made an effort to feed them directly. Had several getting very skinny and the larger instars weren’t too keen on sharing their meals. I added a starter colony of Dermestes maculatus and found that the smallest horrida (and even the sub-adults) absolutely love Dermestid larvae. All the nymphs are fat balloons now. Luckily, I have no shortage of Dermestes in my roach cultures.


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## BoyFromLA (Jul 11, 2019)

1Lord Of Ants1 said:


> I have around 20 nymphs of various sizes doing well and molting quickly. Pretty self explanatory insects to care for, and not much different care-wise from the slightly smaller species.
> 
> I’ve been feeding mostly Blatta lateralis, but have found some of the smallest nymphs to be too slow to reliably catch roaches unless you made an effort to feed them directly. Had several getting very skinny and the larger instars weren’t too keen on sharing their meals. I added a starter colony of Dermestes maculatus and found that the smallest horrida (and even the sub-adults) absolutely love Dermestid larvae. All the nymphs are fat balloons now. Luckily, I have no shortage of Dermestes in my roach cultures.


Ah ha! Thanks for sharing the good informations!


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## BoyFromLA (Jul 13, 2019)

Out of four nymphs, three are pretty much good hunters, and are well fed, while one particular weakling can’t seem to hunt, and still skinny.

Do I separate this one with other three and give more attention to it or just leave it and give more chance to hunt and to be with other three?


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## 1Lord Of Ants1 (Jul 13, 2019)

BoyFromLA said:


> Out of four nymphs, three are pretty much good hunters, and are well fed, while one particular weakling can’t seem to hunt, and still skinny.
> 
> Do I separate this one with other three and give more attention to it or just leave it and give more chance to hunt and to be with other three?


They do better in groups. Try an offer it pre-killed via tongs, and offer it a variety. I had several nymphs that looked on the verge of death stay super skinny for weeks only to gorge themselves on Dermestes larvae.


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## SonsofArachne (Jul 14, 2019)

When I first got these I had trouble keeping them alive. Here's some advice I got from a kind breeder/seller of these that I've followed and have had much more success.

"As for horrida care requirements, I’ve found that external factors play a very limited role in determining whether specimens will successfully thrive or not, as they typically do well across a huge range of environmental conditions. Nonetheless, your temp and humidity level sound totally appropriate—this species does great at or above room temperature, so the only time I ever actively regulate their environmental temp myself is when it’s freakishly cold (<65F) or hot (>85F) in my apartment; and although mismolts are rare regardless of the natural ambient humidity, nymphs seem to prefer, and molt with near 100% success, when their enclosure is kept totally dry—that is, when you provide no substrate (or only totally dry substrate), no water dish, and no misting whatsoever.

By contrast, internal factors, particularly diet, seem to play a huge role in shaping nymphs’ success or failure to thrive. What kind of prey have you been feeding yours? And how often do you feed your nymphs? I have found that my nymphs thrive best (i.e., demonstrate faster and greater overall growth; few, if any, premature deaths due to cannibalism, self-imposed starvation, mismolt, or random causes; more prolific reproduction among specimens that make it to adulthood) when (1) they are fed diets that consist primarily of roaches (young nymphs do especially awful on cricket-heavy diets), and (2) they are almost always extremely well fed and well hydrated, which I accomplish by having active prey in the enclosure at all times, allowing nymphs to eat until full anytime they want (I add hatchling Dubia or red runners to the horrida nymphs’ enclosure on a regular basis, always keeping sufficient roach feed and fresh fruit/veg in there for any live feeders to subsist on). Neglecting either of those concerns has Inevitably always led to drastic declines in the overall health and vitality of my colony.
Tbh, for nymphs at least, substrate depth and type will have little impact on their success, as long as the substrate is totally dry. However, since I essentially raise feeder roaches in the same enclosure as my nymphs to ensure the little guys always have access to super nutritious food and a primary fluid source (bc they get all their fluid from prey), my substrate preferences depend on which species of roach I have to offer as prey: if feeding my nymphs mostly Dubia or other burrowing species, I avoid adding any substrate at all to prevent the feeders from immediately hiding; however, if I am mostly using red runners or other non-burrowing species, I add whatever substrate I find most attractive, though as I stressed earlier, I leave the substrate completely dry.

A medium critter keeper is fine for a even a large group of smaller and juvie nymphs. However, I would recommend a 2.5 - 5 gal tank for a large group of adults.

One thing I forgot to mention, though, is that this species needs to have some dark, hidden areas in their enclosure to retreat to anytime desired, bc they seem to get super stressed if forced to be in the open all the time. Although it looks ghetto, I’ve found that nymphs do particularly well in a plain old well ventilated plastic tub that is totally empty except for a few egg carton trays to be used as hides.

Oh, and if you want your adults to breed and lay eggs, you need to add a small bowl filled with constantly damp substrate to their enclosure as an egg laying medium for females to use. This can create too much environmental humidity for nymphs, though, so I keep adults and nymphs in separate enclosures.

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## draconisj4 (Jul 14, 2019)

BoyFromLA said:


> Out of four nymphs, three are pretty much good hunters, and are well fed, while one particular weakling can’t seem to hunt, and still skinny.
> 
> Do I separate this one with other three and give more attention to it or just leave it and give more chance to hunt and to be with other three?


I would just tong feed it, I'm currently raising 4 nymphs and have previously raised 2 to adult. I feed red runner nymphs slightly mangled so they aren't so fast but I also have one nymph that isn't great at hunting so I make sure the other 3 have their meal and then drop a more mangled feeder in front of the slow one.

I have my nymphs in a small bare container with a chunk of egg crate for them to hide under so it's easy to see who got their meal. I feed the nymphs every 2 to 3 days. It's the way I raised my other 2 until they got to a good size, then I moved them to a more natural enclosure with plenty of room for them to molt to adult.


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## BoyFromLA (Jul 15, 2019)

Yay, after a week later, last nymph finally ate the first meal.


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## SonsofArachne (Jul 15, 2019)

SonsofArachne said:


> When I first got these I had trouble keeping them alive. Here's some advice I got from a kind breeder/seller of these that I've followed and have had much more success.
> 
> "As for horrida care requirements, I’ve found that external factors play a very limited role in determining whether specimens will successfully thrive or not, as they typically do well across a huge range of environmental conditions. Nonetheless, your temp and humidity level sound totally appropriate—this species does great at or above room temperature, so the only time I ever actively regulate their environmental temp myself is when it’s freakishly cold (<65F) or hot (>85F) in my apartment; and although mismolts are rare regardless of the natural ambient humidity, nymphs seem to prefer, and molt with near 100% success, when their enclosure is kept totally dry—that is, when you provide no substrate (or only totally dry substrate), no water dish, and no misting whatsoever.
> 
> ...


If anybody's wondering where this care info came from - I won't mention a seller's name but if you bought P. horrida from the classifieds recently then you know who wrote this.

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## lazarus (Jul 17, 2019)

Just got 5 adults, I know for sure I have two males and two females cause I've seen two pairs mating at the same time, not sure what sex is the fifth. Is there an easy way to sex them? 
One of the females already had 3 eggs laid in the shipping container (they were packed individually) can anyone approximate how long will it take for the eggs to hatch? My invert room temperature is between 24-27C (that's 75-80F I believe) in the summer. I'm also concerned that newly hatched nymphs might be able to escape through the ventilation holes, an egg would definitely fit through those holes, is a 1st instar about the same size?

I've noticed a rather weird behavior, I was hearing some odd sounds from their enclosure so I watched them for a few minutes and found the source, one of them was flapping its wings as if it was trying to fly. Are they able to fly? I assumed they're not but what does the wing flapping means? Is it maybe a mating ritual or a threat posture?


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## lazarus (Jul 29, 2019)

Just noticed my first newly hatched nymph and at a closer look there are lots of them actually, I've counted at least 14. Should I throw in some smaller roach nymphs for the babies or will they eat what's left behind from the adults?


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## jseng (Jul 30, 2019)

Although I have seen hatching nymphs eat adults' leftovers or latch on to prey that are actively being drained by adults, if you want to ensure the little guys survive, much less do well, you will need to offer them some appropriate sized prey. Despite their tiny size, hatchling horrida can take down pinhead through 1/3" red runners or crickets (which correspond to the "small" crickets at major chain pet stores, though those tend to be kept in filthy conditions, so if I have to use Petco/Petsmart crickets, I generally quarantine and feed them a healthy diet of fresh fruit and high protein roach chow for 1-3 days before offering them to my horrida nymphs), or fresh hatching Dubia. If you can't get a shold of any of those, horrida hatchlings will also take buffalo beetle larvae, small meal worms, waxworms of any size, dermestid larvae, hydei fruit flies, and bluebottle spikes and adults. I've only rarely seen them eat prekilled prey, so I'd recommend offering them live feeders (though in theory, I suppose tong feeding freshly killed large prey could work too; if anyone has had success with that, I would be interested to know!).

Additionally, I would recommend raising nymphs  and adults in separate enclosures, as the damp substrate required as adults' egg laying medium can raise the enclosure humidity levels higher than is healthy for nymphs (which require dry conditions to thrive), not to mention that adult sized prey can sometimes eat tiny (especially molting) nymphs


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## Salmonsaladsandwich (Jul 30, 2019)

Adults can be sexed the same way as Platymeris- the males will have a distinct round bump on the end of their abdomen, while females will have a more blunt abdomen with a small final segment.

While I can’t speak for this species, I have personally seen that Platymeris (which are very similar, just a bit smaller and less spiky) will drink water droplets given the opportunity, especially if it’s hot. They certainly can get all the water they need from prey, but if you’re short on prey and you think they need a drink there’s no reason not to give them a light spray on occasion.

(Edit: wrong thread. I thought I clicked on the thread called “seeing P. horrida”. I thought it was a bit weird that nobody gave advice on sexing...)


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## sschind (Dec 25, 2019)

I know this is an older thread but I thought I would chime in with my experiences with these awesome animals.  I bought a group from jseng over the summer (I think it was over the summer, I'm a terrible judge of passing time) all were nymphs of various ages and I started with close to 30 of them.  As they matured I thinned out my herd until I got down to I think 10 or so.  All you saying they can be sexed easily must have better eyes than I do because I had a devil of a time seeing that "rounded abdomen" that keeps getting mentioned   I was also told that a less reliable method was to look at the overall size and shape (females tend to be more robust) so that's what I did and picked out 5 of what I thought to be each sex.  It took a little longer after maturity than I was expecting to find eggs and I was starting to think I either had all of one sex or just a bunch of duds but all of a sudden the huge (comparatively speaking of course) eggs started showing up.  They are easily visible to the naked eye.  They remind me of black eyed peas (the legume not the music group) except that they are dark brown with a tiny cream colored spot instead of lighter color with a dark a spot.  So maybe not that much like black eyed peas after all.   Anyway, I kept an 8 oz deli cup with damp coco fiber in the tank (a large kritter keeper) with the lid on and a hole cut in the side and through November I noticed maybe a dozen or so eggs though I didn't dig through so there may be more.  I want to try to keep my nymph sizes more uniform so in December I replaced the 8 oz cup with a 16 oz cup (to give them a deeper laying substrate and more headroom) and almost every day I see one or 2 females in there and there are eggs everywhere.  I leave a lid on the deli cup to help keep the substrate in the cup moist (it was alway drying out at first) and also to keep the humidity down in the container.  My room is usually in the low 80's so I'm just waiting for a hatch now.  I am placing the laying containers inside a larger deli cup with a few ventilation holes to keep the humidity up but i am having a hard time balancing it.  To many holes and it dries out too few and I get condensation.  I check them every day so I am not too worried about having nymphs in a high humidity environment (which I understand they do not do well in) for too long but I am worried that they might be too small and any drops of condensation may lead to drowning.  I'm also a bit worried that they may be too small and be able to crawl out the vent holes ( I'm using pre punched deli containers whatever those hole sizes are. )

As far as the adults go I throw in a dozen 1/2 or so dubia nymphs once a week and occasionally some crickets.  I have no substrate in the cage right now but once I get some breeding I am going to set one up with substrate and cork bark for a display.  I'm just worried about cleaning up the dead dubia exoskeletons for one thing and keeping the sides of the tank clean for another.  These guys get their ... waste everywhere including on each other.  I have one I have named spot because she has a big round spot of waste on her back where she obviously got excreted upon.  And here I was thinking I was the only one who got crapped on by higher ups.  As far as clean up goes since the substrate needs to be dry my standard clean up crew of dwarf white isopods and springtails won't work.  Maybe I'll try buffalo beetles if they will work in a dry substrate.

I've noticed that as long as they have a place to hide they are not all that active.  At least not during the day.  I keep cardboard packing material similar to egg carton but with larger cups and they always stay hidden.  When I was trying to sex them though and I had had 25 of them in a tub with no hiding places they were all over the tub and crawling out left and right.  The do not like to be in the open so I am sure that any long term successful keeping will require plenty of hiding places. 

Apparently these guys breed far more readily and are far hardier than it was initially though as long as conditions are right.  If Jseng is to be believed, and why wouldn't he as he was is a great source of information, I should have plenty of nymphs soon enough.  If I remember I'll try to keep you all updated when the hatch.

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## lazarus (May 29, 2020)

Did you guys know that they are actually able to fly?  I was shocked today when I saw it, I keep them for almost a year now and it's the first time that I've seen it. I was cleaning their enclosure (it's a plastic bin with a top lid) and one of them climbed to the edge of the bin and then it flew for about 2 meters. They seem clumsy flyers it was something like the flying of a mantis (the common european species) but still, for some reason I've always assumed they were not capable of flying.
They regularly make some sort of stridulation sound with their wings, I thought that might be a courting ritual, but now I'm thinking that they might make that sound when they're trying to take off but are unable to do it because the enclosure is too small?

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## Aspiring Mr T (May 30, 2020)

lazarus said:


> Did you guys know that they are actually able to fly?  I was shocked today when I saw it, I keep them for almost a year now and it's the first time that I've seen it. I was cleaning their enclosure (it's a plastic bin with a top lid) and one of them climbed to the edge of the bin and then it flew for about 2 meters. They seem clumsy flyers it was something like the flying of a mantis (the common european species) but still, for some reason I've always assumed they were not capable of flying.
> They regularly make some sort of stridulation sound with their wings, I thought that might be a courting ritual, but now I'm thinking that they might make that sound when they're trying to take off but are unable to do it because the enclosure is too small?


Have you ever had an incident with their famous fluid? I hear it can be a painful experience.

I know these guys are terrestrial but would they fare well in an arboreal setup?


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## Salmonsaladsandwich (May 31, 2020)

My P. biguttatus flew when they were warm, they also made a buzzing sound that didn't seem related to attempting to fly.

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## lazarus (Jun 10, 2020)

Aspiring Mr T said:


> Have you ever had an incident with their famous fluid? I hear it can be a painful experience.


I haven't seen any defensive behavior but I don't bother them that much. When I'm cleaning their enclosure they hide behind cork barks.




Aspiring Mr T said:


> I know these guys are terrestrial but would they fare well in an arboreal setup?


I think that will work fine, the enlosure I'm keeping them in isn't very tall but there are some branches in there and they climb on those.


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## Dylan933 (Feb 16, 2021)

I know this is an old thread but is there anyone selling P. Horrida nymphs at this time? And is located in or ships to Australia


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## MrGhostMantis (Feb 16, 2021)

Dylan933 said:


> I know this is an old thread but is there anyone selling P. Horrida nymphs at this time? And is located in or ships to Australia


Nobody can ship to Australia. It has super tight restrictions. I doubt even brown boxing them in would work.


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## Dylan933 (Feb 16, 2021)

Well that sucks... I wonder if there's anyone over here that has them? Or are they an illegal species? I understand Australia has strict regulations on non natives but I'm almost certain you can buy some non native pets at the local pet store.


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## MrGhostMantis (Feb 16, 2021)

Dylan933 said:


> Well that sucks... I wonder if there's anyone over here that has them? Or are they an illegal species? I understand Australia has strict regulations on non natives but I'm almost certain you can buy some non native pets at the local pet store.


Non-native species who aren’t established are illegal.


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