# Intermediate-level T's?



## ReclusiveDemon (Nov 2, 2013)

For somebody who has kept beginner species for a little while, has some basic tarantula knowledge, and wants to try working with a T that is more advanced, but may not yet be comfortable keeping a potent, defensive, quick spider, what are some T's that make up that "middle ground"?


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## JZC (Nov 2, 2013)

Avics, Iridopelma, Psalmos (defensive)


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## netr (Nov 2, 2013)

Once experienced with particularly docile species, I'd say all the new world tarantulas I've kept are (VERY generally speaking) interchangeable. All varying degrees of nervousness, grumpiness, hair-kicking or (more rarely) bolting. In most cases not for handling, but quite manageable during maintenance, rehousing and so on.

That said, for individual recommendations I'd say look into the genera Chromatopelma (C. cyaneopubescens), Cyclosternum/Davus, Nhandu, maybe Pamphobeteus. Psalmopoeus are generally recommended as the next step up after Avicularia when it comes to arboreals, but they are capable of horrible speeds when they wish. Then again, so is my Brachypelma vagans!

Ultimately it just comes down to individual temperament and the level of precautions you take when dealing with them. I don't endorse reckless purchases, but I will say that as long as you make sure there is always something between the spider and your skin, as well as between the spider and any chance of escape (no matter what comical and elaborate physical arrangements this might entail) then you can keep just about any tarantula you want.

But the last remark is really beside the point. To sum up, I recommend Pamphobeteus. Beautiful and hungry spiderlings that take on entirely different beautiful colouration as hungry adults!

Edit: I see on your profile that you already have a GBB. Apologies.


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## ReclusiveDemon (Nov 2, 2013)

netr said:


> To sum up, I recommend Pamphobeteus. Beautiful and hungry spiderlings that take on entirely different beautiful colouration as hungry adults!





JZC said:


> Avics, Iridopelma, Psalmos (defensive)


What species of the genera Iridopelma and Pamphobeteus are prominent in the hobby?


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## JZC (Nov 2, 2013)

Iridpelma sp. recife. As for Pamphos, there are several in the hobby, however they are expenisveish. IMHO, get a sling pampho. Cheaper and you get to see a cool color change.


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## netr (Nov 3, 2013)

JZC said:


> IMHO, get a sling pampho. Cheaper and you get to see a cool color change.


 I'd agree. The Christmas-tree pattern is lovely while it lasts, which isn't for that long. 



Then it's all deep brown and gorgeous irredescent purple after that.


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## viper69 (Nov 3, 2013)

For the OP.

I own all examples of Avics, Irido, and Psalmo. I can easily say the Avics are by far the easiest: least defensive, IME not so prone to run off, BUT prone to take a flying leap off of whatever they are on with no regard to high they are up or if anything is below them. Meaning they might leap off your arm, out of a cup and would theoretically land on the floor. Also, the Avics IME seem to take a few steps or gingerly test the immediate area before taking off like a bat out of hell. Not always, but it's just my observation, you at times get a warning before they bolt. They walk around their webs carefully.  I've owned 6 different species of Avic, just my limited experience.

I own a Iridopelma recife (my first one) w/legs about the size of dime/penny. What I can say is this little guy likes to be at the VERY top of its container, makes opening the container difficult for now because if not paying attention I could crush his leg (wait till he gets a inverted rehouse!), unlike my Avics which had opportunity but always made their "home" a bit lower than the container lid (I've seen other Avics at shows be at the top however, adults/sub-adults). This guy is fast, and it takes off with no warming. Imagine a GBB that is arboreal. It's a nervous/flighty species.

As a comparison of any Avic species I have owned against my Iridoplema at the same age range. When I removed the lid to my Avic container, not one species left, they typically move a bit and bring their legs close to their bodies. My Iridopelma...Oh boy, when I do that, it has no issue running around the walls, upside down on the lid as I hold the lid, OR running out of of its home.

Psalmopeous- I have a single Venz. Sun Tiger, larger than a quarter, less than a 50cent piece. It's by far the fastest species own (tied w/my Red Slate Ornamental), and also a very sensitive species. I can move any of my Ts, including the Iridopelma and my GBB, regardless of age/size or species, and they don't move. My Sun Tiger, the opposite. The moment it senses movement of its home, or even low level vibration that initiated ~12 inches away, it retreats into it's burrow, or pulls back its front legs. It's so it remains in this little burrow it made. It's a GOOD eater, and FAST on the attack. I've seen it come from out of nowhere, and pull down a cricket right into it's lair in a blink of an eye. Only my Red Slate Ornamental and adult B. smithi attack with such speed and ferocity over long distances.

If I was you, I'd get some an Avic or 2 to start after you researched them a bit. If you want a small species, A. minatrix maxs out at about 3", but many do not think they are as pretty as the other Avic. To my knowledge it's the *only* Avic that retains that black and orange tiger like markings on its abdomen as an adult. CB minatrix are hard to find really. I know Jamie's Tarantulas has some. That's where I bought one, and it's been great so far! Great eater and quite docile compared to others of this genus I have owned, except my A. metallica, also really good natured-so far. I could have bought some years ago from Swift's Inverts but I wasn't into Avics yet..what a mistake!


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## skar (Nov 3, 2013)

Avic minatrix is the only T I have that I will handle on purpose. I think they are beautiful too, that copper sheen is pretty.
As for intermediate I suggest arboreal ts like the Iridopelma, as I personally don't  like hairs being sprayed every where.
Iridopelma require care similar to Avics with alot of attitude and they are really pretty to boot.
Psalms are awesome but they are big, fast & more reclusive, my cambridgei isn't very reclusive but she would love to eat me 
I think other than the venom Psalms are more advanced than pokies (IMO).
As for terrestrial acanthoscurria make really cool captives if you want a kicker T.
L8r


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## Keith B (Nov 3, 2013)

All of the above mentioned are probably good intermediates.  It's tough to guage because of the difference in personalities between each T.  I keep reading lots of horror stories about Psalmos jetting all over the place, but both of my males have been completely docile about transferring.  No threat posture, no burst of speed.  Just casually walked where I wanted them to when manipulating.  I took advantage of the situation, and wasn't about to experiment with making them flip lol.  I have onePamphobeteus and he's enjoyable as well.  IMO if you feel you can take all proper precautions and consider all materials you may need at the ready for transfer, and you've gotten down the best possible method for transferring a fast species, and can resist the compelling urge to try and handle everything you keep, then intermediate to advanced is a matter of speculation.  Cause once you're past the notoriously docile specimens, you never know what kind of maniacal little schizophrenic you can potentially wind up with lol.


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## viper69 (Nov 3, 2013)

skar said:


> As for intermediate I suggest arboreal ts like the Iridopelma, as I personally don't  like hairs being sprayed every where.
> Iridopelma require care similar to Avics with alot of attitude and they are really pretty to boot.
> Psalms are awesome but they are big, fast & more reclusive, my cambridgei isn't very reclusive but she would love to eat me



Another important piece of info I left out for the OP, but Skar reminded me. Of the 3 genera I mentioned, *ONLY* Psalmo's *LACK* urticating hairs. So if I was going to choose between Psalmo and Iridoplema, I'd take the former.



Keith B said:


> Cause once you're past the notoriously docile specimens, you never know what kind of maniacal little schizophrenic you can potentially wind up with lol.


That would be my Iridopelma when I lift the lid !!


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## BobGrill (Nov 3, 2013)

My irminia is a sling, so I imagine it's behavior will change as it gets bigger, but right now it may be very skittish and quick to retreat when spooked, but it actually seems kinda slow-moving compared to my OBT and H mac.


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## ReclusiveDemon (Nov 3, 2013)

Is it recommended to have worked with another arboreal before getting a Psalmopoeus? The reason I'd like a psalmo is to get some experience and confidence in dealing with faster, more defensive arboreals; a pokey is high up on my wishlist, and I would like to have some "training wheels" before getting a spider with such a potent bite.


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## BobGrill (Nov 3, 2013)

Honestly I've heard that P irminia are worse than pokies when it comes to defensiveness. Also yeah, i'd recommend some type of Avic before getting either of these.


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## ReclusiveDemon (Nov 3, 2013)

BobGrill said:


> Honestly I've heard that P irminia are worse than pokies when it comes to defensiveness. Also yeah, i'd recommend some type of Avic before getting either of these.


Why is it? Are the arboreals more prone to making leaps of faith?


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## Erebus (Nov 3, 2013)

You can get a Psalmopoeus sp. before an Avic if you want. I got a 3" juive P. irminia as my first and only arboreal and I have to say its a lot easier to work with than my B. vagans.


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## BobGrill (Nov 3, 2013)

ehhh I don't know, I wouldn't advise getting a Psalmo before an Avic. 

Also most arboreals seem to be skittish to at least some extent, but while Avis will usually only make short jumps and dashes, pokies and psalmos will bolt at the slightest disturbance, and I cannot even begin to describe their speed.


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## 845BigRed (Nov 3, 2013)

Honestly its where you feel comfortable. To me an Avic is a beginner species but I jumped from Rose Hair to several slings including a Pokie and a Psalmo. 

Its all about you though, maybe you don't feel comfortable with Arboreals (my versi likes to jump up my arm just fyi) so you go with an old world terrestrial or maybe a new world terrestrial. Honestly my Stirmi is the most demanding, lot of people say they are for experts, but I treat her with respect and keep her cage covered to keep in humidity and shes no different then my Smithi at that point.
Just look over some pictures of various species, read up about one you like and go with that one, BUT make sure you read up about it and you will be fine.


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## viper69 (Nov 3, 2013)

Erebus said:


> You can get a Psalmopoeus sp. before an Avic if you want. I got a 3" juive P. irminia as my first and only arboreal and I have to say its a lot easier to work with than my B. vagans.


I think to help the OP you should tell him/her why you think that (re: your vagans more difficult) as many people would not agree, myself included. My vagans was way easier (T to T variation as always). Just telling him something is better w/out information, isn't that helpful IMO.

---------- Post added 11-03-2013 at 07:52 PM ----------




BobGrill said:


> ehhh I don't know, I wouldn't advise getting a Psalmo before an Avic.
> 
> Also most arboreals seem to be skittish to at least some extent, but while Avis will usually only make short jumps and dashes, pokies and psalmos will bolt at the slightest disturbance, and I cannot even begin to describe their speed.


That's EXACTLY what I have observed with my own Bob.

---------- Post added 11-03-2013 at 07:55 PM ----------




ReclusiveDemon said:


> Why is it? Are the arboreals more prone to making leaps of faith?


Avics are, I can't say yet about my irminia YET, my Poki rufi, hard to tell. I wouldn't doubt it, but so far its more of a fast runner than a leaper. It's 2" DLS



I'll say this, if your "sole" reason for getting a speedy arboreal T is to prep you for a Poki, then get an Iridopelma or irminia over the Avics


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## Erebus (Nov 4, 2013)

My B. vagans has long since taken the prize for my most aggressive T (for now). She's the most skittish, my P. irminia doesn't even dart when I move the cage. The B. vagans, on the other hand, does. The easiest re-house I've ever done was my P. irminia, it calmly moved into the new cage. My B. vagans has never flicked hairs, she just bites. Though, most of this depends on the spider's personality, but my P. irminia is definitely easier than my B. vagans.


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## BobGrill (Nov 4, 2013)

Erebus said:


> My B. vagans has long since taken the prize for my most aggressive T (for now). She's the most skittish, my P. irminia doesn't even dart when I move the cage. The B. vagans, on the other hand, does. The easiest re-house I've ever done was my P. irminia, it calmly moved into the new cage. My B. vagans has never flicked hairs, she just bites. Though, most of this depends on the spider's personality, but my P. irminia is definitely easier than my B. vagans.


Consider yourself luck then, so far most of my Ts that are considered by most to be defensive/skittish have lived up to their reputation. As for my P irminia, it's still to early to tell if it will be as defensive as many have said. As I stated before, it is very easy to startle it, and while it is fast, it seems slower than my regalis, OBT, and H.mac.


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## Fossa (Nov 4, 2013)

with all Ts there will be the exception to the rule, I find my P.irminia more skittish than my pokies, my A.sp. kwitara is very docile while my A. purpurea is again very skittish. My rose hair is an absolute fruitcake while my C. darlingi is relatively calm and reluctant to bolt (so far). I would say if you feel confident you can provide the correct care requirements and have an understanding of the "typical" behaviour of a genus you'll be fine. My C. fasciatum is quick to flick hairs and bolt with sudden movements near the tank but moving slowly is very calm. I would say plenty of research and plenty of respect and you will be ok with whatever you go with. It's easy to avoid problems when rehousing by being careful as i am sure many will testify to on these boards.


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## Zcreator (Nov 6, 2013)

I am glad that I had Avics before moving on to Psalmos.  It got me used to tracking and predicting their movement when they dart, and the speed change between the two is quite dramatic.  You may never hear an avic skittering against the walls of its container, but it's a telltale sound when I even walk past my cambridgei that she's running laps before hiding.  

Also Avics are easier to see in their webs and with psalmos you've got the increased unpredictability of a T hiding behind a sometimes very large dirt curtain.  My irminia has curtained the entire bottom half of her one gallon jar and unfortunately likes to drink from the dish instead of from misting so that's always a fun chore to refill.


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## Storm76 (Nov 6, 2013)

ReclusiveDemon said:


> For somebody who has kept beginner species for a little while, has some basic tarantula knowledge, and wants to try working with a T that is more advanced, but may not yet be comfortable keeping a potent, defensive, quick spider, what are some T's that make up that "middle ground"?


What does "little while" mean? Frankly, some people who say it like that are not 100% comfy around those "advanced" species, but want to try anyways. Sometimes, this leads to getting in over your head and problems. In my opinion, keeping tarantulas doesn't mean 1-2 months and then feeling "experienced" enough to jump into the "upper league". My personal advice to anyone who isn't certain if he/she can deal with those: Don't. Give it time - patience is THE one thing you have to learn with this hobby. Rushing things more than often can end in problems. However, if you are sure you can deal with fast & probably defensive = Go for it! Just keep your hands out of reach 



BobGrill said:


> Honestly I've heard that P irminia are worse than pokies when it comes to defensiveness. Also yeah, i'd recommend some type of Avic before getting either of these.


Difference: Psalmopoeus spp. tend to be more unpredictable than Poecies from what I understand. Not having had much experience with Poecies so far, but the P. subfusca that I raised was way easier to deal with than my mean P. irminia female. Mind you: I have a couple AF irminias and they behave totally different in terms of intrusion / disturbance.



BobGrill said:


> ehhh I don't know, I wouldn't advise getting a Psalmo before an Avic. Also most arboreals seem to be skittish to at least some extent, but while Avis will usually only make short jumps and dashes, pokies and psalmos will bolt at the slightest disturbance, and I cannot even begin to describe their speed.


Generally, I'd agree but it's up to the individual what he/she feels comfy about. Frankly, there are some OW terrestrials that are "serious business", too. Also, my Psalms will only dart short distances as well, it's their speed that makes those "short" distances more than that of an Avic really. In general I have to say that between Avic and Psalmo the main difference is their defensiveness towards disturbance only. On the same note, I have some Avics that are outright mean and not docile in the least really. The versicolor female I handled back when she darted out on me twice, I don't go near her with my hands anymore - she's become a totally mean, very bitey Avic that will try to stab you instantly almost. Personality can and will vary / change at times - never forget that.
Not wanting to offend you, but do you actually keep either Poecie or Psalms at all? I'm asking since despite all the "problematic" stuff about them, once you reached a certain level of experience in dealing with fast and defensive spiders (yes, Chad, it's your words I used there ) you don't see a problem really anymore. 




Erebus said:


> You can get a Psalmopoeus sp. before an Avic if you want. I got a 3" juive P. irminia as my first and only arboreal and I have to say its a lot easier to work with than my B. vagans.


Same, started with a B. smithi and a juvie P. irminia 3.5". Never had any problems. If you do your research thoroughly beforehand - you'll be fine.



845BigRed said:


> Honestly its where you feel comfortable.


I'd totally sign this. However, overestimating oneself can be bad, too 



Zcreator said:


> I am glad that I had Avics before moving on to Psalmos.  It got me used to tracking and predicting their movement when they dart, and the speed change between the two is quite dramatic.  You may never hear an avic skittering against the walls of its container, but it's a telltale sound when I even walk past my cambridgei that she's running laps before hiding.
> Also Avics are easier to see in their webs and with psalmos you've got the increased unpredictability of a T hiding behind a sometimes very large dirt curtain.  My irminia has curtained the entire bottom half of her one gallon jar and unfortunately likes to drink from the dish instead of from misting so that's always a fun chore to refill.


Two things with this statement: 
1) Psalms are way more unpredictable than Avics. Avics are pretty easy to predict after you got used to them, while Psalms react to the same form of disturbance often totally different. 
2) If you have problems with your Psalm hiding behind a durt-curtain you should actually provide her a cork-bark tube. I never have any problem refilling the waterdishes of my Psalm enclosure, probably because their setup is set up in a way that their hiding spot is on the other side. Another hint is refilling them during daytime as (at least with mine) they're usually never out during the day anyways.


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## viper69 (Nov 6, 2013)

Storm76 said:


> 2) If you have problems with your Psalm hiding behind a durt-curtain you should actually provide her a cork-bark tube.


Storm, how do you determine the proper diameter for a cork bark tube for a given size of arboreal T (I'm referring to irminia and a rufilata. They are small now, so it's not an issue, just trying to prep when they get larger. I haven't seen anyone talk about diameter, just length.


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## Storm76 (Nov 6, 2013)

viper69 said:


> Storm, how do you determine the proper diameter for a cork bark tube for a given size of arboreal T (I'm referring to irminia and a rufilata. They are small now, so it's not an issue, just trying to prep when they get larger. I haven't seen anyone talk about diameter, just length.


My AF have tubes with approx. 4-5cm diameter. "Phaedra" made her retreat first in the plastic plants, 2 days later she moved into the tube...the other one hides in the tube all the time.


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## viper69 (Nov 6, 2013)

Storm76 said:


> My AF have tubes with approx. 4-5cm diameter. "Phaedra" made her retreat first in the plastic plants, 2 days later she moved into the tube...the other one hides in the tube all the time.


Thanks a lot Storm! That's funny, I would have thought they would need something with a larger diameter despite how "flat"/low profile a T has, I thought for sure larger.


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## BobGrill (Nov 6, 2013)

Storm76 said:


> What does "little while" mean? Frankly, some people who say it like that are not 100% comfy around those "advanced" species, but want to try anyways. Sometimes, this leads to getting in over your head and problems. In my opinion, keeping tarantulas doesn't mean 1-2 months and then feeling "experienced" enough to jump into the "upper league". My personal advice to anyone who isn't certain if he/she can deal with those: Don't. Give it time - patience is THE one thing you have to learn with this hobby. Rushing things more than often can end in problems. However, if you are sure you can deal with fast & probably defensive = Go for it! Just keep your hands out of reach
> 
> 
> Difference: Psalmopoeus spp. tend to be more unpredictable than Poecies from what I understand. Not having had much experience with Poecies so far, but the P. subfusca that I raised was way easier to deal with than my mean P. irminia female. Mind you: I have a couple AF irminias and they behave totally different in terms of intrusion / disturbance.
> ...


I have a female P. regalis which I have raised from a sling, and a P irminia, which is still very small.


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## Poec54 (Nov 6, 2013)

viper69 said:


> I would have thought they would need something with a larger diameter despite how "flat"/low profile a T has, I thought for sure larger.


My adult Theraphosa (9+") have PVC elbows for retreats that have a 3" internal diameter, which they love.  However, they molt out in the open.  Nothing to worry about.  If the retreat is tight for molting, they have the rest of the cage.


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## viper69 (Nov 6, 2013)

Poec54 said:


> My adult Theraphosa (9+") have PVC elbows for retreats that have a 3" internal diameter, which they love.  However, they molt out in the open.  Nothing to worry about.  If the retreat is tight for molting, they have the rest of the cage.


Oh wow, they fit inside those..OK, I got it now! Thanks!


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## ReclusiveDemon (Nov 6, 2013)

Okay, so here is what has happened thus far: I picked up an A. avic from a LPS yesterday. I suspect that it is a female, but unfortunately, since I don't have a quality camera, I can't put up a picture to get some opinions of the sex. It's probably about 3.5 inches, and it's currently living in an 8x8x8 terrarium. Rehousing was nice and smooth, and before I bought her, they let me poke around to see how she was, and it was pretty mellow. . I always thought the Pink Toe was pretty dull to look at, but in person, they're pretty nice to look at, and they're so fluffy! (compared to my terrestrial T's)

This picture is the best that I can do: http://i.imgur.com/kCg8Jc4.jpg

In addition, I'm going to be getting a Psalmopoeus pulcher tomorrow. I know, two days isn't really a lot of experience with arboreals lol, I was going to buy the P. pulcher regardless, while the pink toe was unplanned. I'm pretty excited for her arrival; I have a 8x8x12 ready for her (although from what I hear about them being partly terrestrial and sticking to the bottom of the cage, the pink toe and panama blonde may be better off switching their enclosures. I can and probably will buy a bigger cage for the avic anyway when/if it gets any bigger. I'll be cautious, and try to be on top of my game when corralling her. 

Aside from that, what is the consensus on the Ephebopus genus? In particular, E. murinus.

Lastly, what is the difference between Nhandu chromatus and Acanthoscurria geniculata? They both look similar to me, so what differentiates them?


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## viper69 (Nov 6, 2013)

ReclusiveDemon said:


> Aside from that, what is the consensus on the Ephebopus genus? In particular, E. murinus.


For Ephebopus, I can only speak for the Blue Fang, it's a beautiful T, one of the most colorful I think. It burrows for sure. As far as disposition it's a nervous/skittish species pretty fast too, sort of like a GBB, that lives in its hole more often than not, keeping its legs at the front. The colors are intense no doubt. It's an overlooked species for sure. BRIGHT Blue, metallic olive gold/green, wild iridescent toes, orange banding if I recall on the legs, with I think some yellow hairs too.


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## ReclusiveDemon (Nov 7, 2013)

The P. pulcher arrived this morning in the mail. She was surprisingly easy to transfer; no bolting, leaping, or thrashing, she just made her way into the tank like a good girl. Of course, she may have suffered some shell shock from the shipping, so she may be more feisty in the future.



viper69 said:


> For Ephebopus, I can only speak for the Blue Fang, it's a beautiful T, one of the most colorful I think. It burrows for sure. As far as disposition it's a nervous/skittish species pretty fast too, sort of like a GBB, that lives in its hole more often than not, keeping its legs at the front. The colors are intense no doubt. It's an overlooked species for sure. BRIGHT Blue, metallic olive gold/green, wild iridescent toes, orange banding if I recall on the legs, with I think some yellow hairs too.


What substrate do you use for it? And Ephebopus likes high humidity too, correct?


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## viper69 (Nov 7, 2013)

ReclusiveDemon said:


> The P. pulcher arrived this morning in the mail. She was surprisingly easy to transfer; no bolting, leaping, or thrashing, she just made her way into the tank like a good girl. Of course, she may have suffered some shell shock from the shipping, so she may be more feisty in the future.
> 
> 
> 
> What substrate do you use for it? And Ephebopus likes high humidity too, correct?


I use cocofiber myself. I know others that use peat, and other people that use a mix. As for humiditiy, yeah higher humidity. However the same is true for Avics, they like higher humidity. You should read this > http://people.ucalgary.ca/~schultz/Humidity.html

I used to try and keep my Avics at the "proper" humidity, many years ago when I was new to non-terrestrials, suffice to say I ended up with a few dead young Avic Ts unfortunately due to over watering. Once I owned my first BlueFang (and did well with other Avics), I really gave up on micromanaging their environment. I keep them more dry than anything really. It's worked for me too. I have to admit I didn't think it was going to work, but I hada no "choice" I needed to change something.  There are people who are able to make that balance of water not turn into mold/spores etc. I always over do it.  SOO, I go dryer now. I DO however use a syringe and periodically add a bit of water. But it only makes the coco fiber a bit darker for a short period of time, not for a month.


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## reunsch (Nov 7, 2013)

N. chromatus has a light brown/grey prosoma, whereas A. geniculata has a dark brown/black prosoma.


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## ReclusiveDemon (Nov 7, 2013)

viper69 said:


> I use cocofiber myself. I know others that use peat, and other people that use a mix. As for humiditiy, yeah higher humidity. However the same is true for Avics, they like higher humidity. You should read this > http://people.ucalgary.ca/~schultz/Humidity.html
> 
> I used to try and keep my Avics at the "proper" humidity, many years ago when I was new to non-terrestrials, suffice to say I ended up with a few dead young Avic Ts unfortunately due to over watering. Once I owned my first BlueFang (and did well with other Avics), I really gave up on micromanaging their environment. I keep them more dry than anything really. It's worked for me too. I have to admit I didn't think it was going to work, but I hada no "choice" I needed to change something.  There are people who are able to make that balance of water not turn into mold/spores etc. I always over do it.  SOO, I go dryer now. I DO however use a syringe and periodically add a bit of water. But it only makes the coco fiber a bit darker for a short period of time, not for a month.


By coco fiber, do you mean brands like Eco Earth? It doesn't seem to be able to hold a burrow while dry. Is it also true that coco fiber tends to mold when kept wet? Doesn't sound like the greatest substrate to me for that kind of spider. But, I've never kept an Ephebopus, or a T that really needs higher humidity (except maybe the pink toe, but it is an adult, and I've read that ventilation is far more important for them than humidity), so I haven't had that experience.



reunsch said:


> N. chromatus has a light brown/grey prosoma, whereas A. geniculata has a dark brown/black prosoma.


What about in terms of their behavior, husbandry, size, temperament, etc.


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## skar (Nov 8, 2013)

You can also use peat moss, If you would like mix in a little bit of vermiculite for more moisture. I've used it for about 8 yrs and that's all I use.
Chromatus are hair kickers, nervous and they get pretty big about 6inchs.


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## viper69 (Nov 8, 2013)

ReclusiveDemon said:


> By coco fiber, do you mean brands like Eco Earth? It doesn't seem to be able to hold a burrow while dry. Is it also true that coco fiber tends to mold when kept wet? Doesn't sound like the greatest substrate to me for that kind of spider. But, I've never kept an Ephebopus, or a T that really needs higher humidity (except maybe the pink toe, but it is an adult, and I've read that ventilation is far more important for them than humidity), so I haven't had that experience.
> 
> What about in terms of their behavior, husbandry, size, temperament, etc.



Don't know what EcoEarth is made of. The Bluefang I had did OK with it. I agree, when dry, the fiber isn't the best for packing in my opinion, a 50/50 split with peat be more firm. It's very resistant to mold compared to other things I've used or seen in other setups.

I suspect with my new Bluefang spiderling, I'm going to try a 50/50 split, PROVIDED I can find a vendor for peat that sells it in SMALL quantities. Right now, it's not burrowing, getting acclimated and it's hiding under a cork bark chip instead.


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## ReclusiveDemon (Nov 10, 2013)

viper69 said:


> Don't know what EcoEarth is made of. The Bluefang I had did OK with it. I agree, when dry, the fiber isn't the best for packing in my opinion, a 50/50 split with peat be more firm. It's very resistant to mold compared to other things I've used or seen in other setups.
> 
> I suspect with my new Bluefang spiderling, I'm going to try a 50/50 split, PROVIDED I can find a vendor for peat that sells it in SMALL quantities. Right now, it's not burrowing, getting acclimated and it's hiding under a cork bark chip instead.


EcoEarth is shredded coconut husk. I have it in my B. albopilosum sling's vial, and it can burrow inside of it just fine, but a larger T will probably need a firmer substrate. 

So, what would be a good first old world?

Reactions: Like 1


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## BobGrill (Nov 10, 2013)

ReclusiveDemon said:


> So, what would be a good first old world?


I've read that all of these are good first old worlds:

Poecilotheria metallica, (Gooty Sapphire Ornamental)
Poecilotheria regalis, (Indian Ornamental)
Poecilotheria miranda, (Bengal Ornamental) 
Poecilotheria pederseni, (Ghost Ornamental) 
Sri Lankan ornamental (Poecilotheria fasciata)
Idiothele mira (Blue Foot Baboon)
Pterinochilus lugardi, (Ft. Hall Baboon)


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## Poec54 (Nov 10, 2013)

BobGrill said:


> I've read that all of these are good first old worlds:
> 
> Poecilotheria metallica, (Gooty Sapphire Ornamental)
> Poecilotheria regalis, (Indian Ornamental)
> ...


No Poecilotheria is a good first OW, they're really advanced species.  Ceratogyrus would be good however.


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## BobGrill (Nov 10, 2013)

Poec54 said:


> No Poecilotheria is a good first OW, they're really advanced species.  Ceratogyrus would be good however.


Others would disagree. My first OW was a regalis.


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## Poec54 (Nov 10, 2013)

BobGrill said:


> Others would disagree. My first OW was a regalis.


With Poec's speed potential and hot bites, anyone who recommends them for a first OW species is giving poor advice.  Some people can deal with that and make it work, most can't.  There's no reason to jump in the deep end.


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## viper69 (Nov 10, 2013)

ReclusiveDemon said:


> EcoEarth is shredded coconut husk. I have it in my B. albopilosum sling's vial, and it can burrow inside of it just fine, but a larger T will probably need a firmer substrate.
> 
> So, what would be a good first old world?


My Horned Baboon was great. I had an OBT, and while super defensive/aggressive they sure can put up with a lot regarding husbandry, quite tolerant in that regard. My P rufilata is young, but so far, so good (great eater!)


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## ReclusiveDemon (Nov 10, 2013)

Poec54 said:


> With Poec's speed potential and hot bites, anyone who recommends them for a first OW species is giving poor advice.  Some people can deal with that and make it work, most can't.  There's no reason to jump in the deep end.


So, how long do you think I should hold off on getting a Pokey? I was looking into getting a P. regalis or P. miranda sling, because I like how they look, and it would be sweet just to be an owner of the notorious Pokey. I just got a Psalmopoeus pulcher, and the genus is said to be similar to Poecilotheria in terms of speed and defensiveness, although the seller did say that my particular specimen is relatively calm, and her behavior thus far is consistent with what they said. I'd like to get a Pokey, but I don't know what I would be getting into, and I'm afraid of what a wet bite might do for me.


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## BobGrill (Nov 10, 2013)

I've heard that P irminina are more defensive than most pokies.


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## viper69 (Nov 10, 2013)

ReclusiveDemon said:


> I'm afraid of what a wet bite might do for me.


Hey man, if you are afraid, no problem, then don't get it. It's that simple, case closed.  That's why I don't own poisonous snakes (hots), because I'm too worried, and I have zero experience with Hots.  Check out on YouTube, RobC, he has some videos with large OW Ts, usually rehousing videos is what I watch. You'll see pretty Ts, but it might make you think some more.

I'll tell you one thing, anything with 8 legs that can walk up glass, esp once it gets large is tricky to deal with. NOT that an OW terrestrial can't be problematic either, but I think arboreals (NW and OW) are just much more nimble generally speaking.

---------- Post added 11-10-2013 at 12:39 PM ----------




BobGrill said:


> I've heard that P irminina are more defensive than most pokies.


More defensive in what way? Just curious.


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## BobGrill (Nov 10, 2013)

viper69 said:


> More defensive in what way? Just curious.


As in they're more likely to bite you where as most pokies will just bolt.


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## viper69 (Nov 10, 2013)

BobGrill said:


> As in they're more likely to bite you where as most pokies will just bolt.


Oh really? interesting, I didn't realize that. I guess my OBT left quite the OW impression upon me hahahah.  Yeah I've seen large Pokies just take off, can't exactly put a cup over a speedy 7-8" T! I'm going to need large tongs.


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## BobGrill (Nov 10, 2013)

Of course that's just generally speaking. I'm sure there are some very defensive individual pokies and irminias that are more skittish than defensive.


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## ReclusiveDemon (Nov 10, 2013)

Poec54 said:


> No Poecilotheria is a good first OW, they're really advanced species.  Ceratogyrus would be good however.


Also, should the horned baboons be kept as a burrowing species?


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## viper69 (Nov 10, 2013)

Yes..........


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## melijoc (Nov 10, 2013)

Start going for african species. King baboon, h. Gigas, c. Darlingi, etc. These are defensive species but not quick running like your avg. Poecis or haplopelmas.


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## ReclusiveDemon (Nov 10, 2013)

melijoc said:


> Start going for african species. King baboon, h. Gigas, c. Darlingi, etc. These are defensive species but not quick running like your avg. Poecis or haplopelmas.


King Baboon? Isn't that one of the most defensive, potent species?


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## BobGrill (Nov 10, 2013)

Baboons can be pretty damn fast as well. H mac are very speedy.


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## viper69 (Nov 10, 2013)

ReclusiveDemon said:


> King Baboon? Isn't that one of the most defensive, potent species?


Get a horned baboon. The cool thing about horned baboons, is they are sexual dimorphic, only the females develop the horns, so it's easy to know the gender. C. marshalli females develop the largest horns, up to 1 cm! They aren't really that expensive as spiderlings either ($20-30)

I had a different horned baboon, I believe darlingi, it was a female once, and while defensive, she didn't attack the forceps I used.


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## ReclusiveDemon (Nov 10, 2013)

viper69 said:


> Get a horned baboon. The cool thing about horned baboons, is they are sexual dimorphic, only the females develop the horns, so it's easy to know the gender. C. marshalli females develop the largest horns, up to 1 cm! They aren't really that expensive as spiderlings either ($20-30)
> 
> I had a different horned baboon, I believe darlingi, it was a female once, and while defensive, she didn't attack the forceps I used.





viper69 said:


> Yes..........


So, keep them as a dry burrower?


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## viper69 (Nov 10, 2013)

ReclusiveDemon said:


> So, keep them as a dry burrower?


Yes....... (can't type less than 10 characters for a message here, odd)


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## ReclusiveDemon (Nov 11, 2013)

Also, what should I do if I get bit by an old world spider? What kind of stuff should I have lying around in that event? I have EpiPen in my drawer; is there any other medication that would be helpful in this event? What should I do to clean the wound? Should I put the bite site on ice?


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## BobGrill (Nov 11, 2013)

Not to freak you out or anything, but a bite from a pokie or baboon could potentially earn you a trip to the emergency room.


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## ReclusiveDemon (Nov 11, 2013)

BobGrill said:


> Not to freak you out or anything, but a bite from a pokie or baboon could potentially earn you a trip to the emergency room.


I'm aware of that. I'm reading bite reports right now. Scary stuff. It's part of the package, unfortunately.


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## Poec54 (Nov 11, 2013)

ReclusiveDemon said:


> I'm aware of that. I'm reading bite reports right now. Scary stuff. It's part of the package, unfortunately.


Not everyone is cut out for OW T's.  Most are much faster than NW's, not to mention the defensiveness and the hotter venoms.  It takes steady nerves to work with them.  There's a lot of great NW species to choose from, and you can easily make a nice collection with just them.

I've had T's on and off for 40 years, with a focus on OW's.  I prefer 'confrontational' spiders.  Never been bit.  But I took it in stages, and worked my way up, which you need to do too.  If you jump into some species too fast, that are beyond your skill and experience level, it doesn't do you or the spider any good.  Or teh people you live with.  From the questions you're asking, you're not ready yet.  Take your time.  There's no hurry.


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## viper69 (Nov 11, 2013)

BobGrill said:


> Not to freak you out or anything, but a bite from a pokie or baboon could potentially earn you a trip to the emergency room.


Bob, have you ever been tagged by either of those OW groups? If so, how was it ?


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## Poec54 (Nov 11, 2013)

viper69 said:


> Bob, have you ever been tagged by either of those OW groups? If so, how was it ?


Give him time.


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## BobGrill (Nov 11, 2013)

Nope, never been tagged. I always use tongs when putting food in, removing bolus, etc, and I obviously don't try to handle them at all.

Also, what do you mean "Give him time." ? Are you suggesting I will get bitten? I suppose anything is possible, but I doubt it will happen if I keep doing what I'm doing so far.


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## viper69 (Nov 11, 2013)

Poec54 said:


> I prefer 'confrontational' spiders.  Never been bit.  But I took it in stages, and worked my way up, which you need to do too.  If you jump into some species too fast, that are beyond your skill and experience level, it doesn't do you or the spider any good.  Or teh people you live with.  From the questions you're asking, you're not ready yet.  Take your time.  There's no hurry.


Curious, why do you prefer them? Is it because you think they are prettier? Or because they are confrontational, it's more along the lines of they show you their intent more so?

What OW species did you start out in your first few years?


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## ReclusiveDemon (Nov 11, 2013)

Poec54 said:


> Not everyone is cut out for OW T's.  Most are much faster than NW's, not to mention the defensiveness and the hotter venoms.  It takes steady nerves to work with them.  There's a lot of great NW species to choose from, and you can easily make a nice collection with just them.
> 
> I've had T's on and off for 40 years, with a focus on OW's.  I prefer 'confrontational' spiders.  Never been bit.  But I took it in stages, and worked my way up, which you need to do too.  If you jump into some species too fast, that are beyond your skill and experience level, it doesn't do you or the spider any good.  Or teh people you live with.  From the questions you're asking, you're not ready yet.  Take your time.  There's no hurry.


What did I say? 

It saddens me to hear that, I find a lot of the OW species beautiful and interesting, but admittedly I'm not exactly comfortable with the idea. Buying one would probably mean getting into a crash course with a fast, angry spider. You're probably right about now not being the time.


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## viper69 (Nov 11, 2013)

BobGrill said:


> Nope, never been tagged. I always use tongs when putting food in, removing bolus, etc, and I obviously don't try to handle them at all.


Same here. I don't even handle my 2" P. rufilata, actually, now that I think of it, I don't handle my other species which are known to generally known to tolerate handling because urticating hairs just give me these long lasting itchy "heat" bumps :unhappy:. I might make an exception for my Euathlus, and my G. pulchripes (once I determine its full disposition). I really just treat them all as fish.

I saw this YouTube video, I WISH I could find it. The person is handling an adult (I believe female based on its body size/shape) Poki, I THINK regalis. Regardless, it was huge compared to my adult female boehemi. The person had to keep moving his hands end over end because its leg span was so large It was a BEAUTIFUL T.


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## Poec54 (Nov 11, 2013)

viper69 said:


> Curious, why do you prefer them? Is it because you think they are prettier? Or because they are confrontational, it's more along the lines of they show you their intent more so?
> 
> What OW species did you start out in your first few years?


I prefer them to be 'spirited', to have the courage to stand up to me.  I respect that.  How can you not love a little animal that says 'Get that finger near me again and you'll be sorry.'  Here I am, hundreds of times bigger than it.  My first few years with tarantulas were Brachypelma/Aphonopelma, and they have all the personality of a wet shoe.  My first OW was Ornithoctonus aureotibialis, back in the late 1970's (the artist formerly known as 'Haplopelma minax').  Full of piss and vinegar.  Loved them.  I had really wanted to get some baboon spiders, but it took a long time for them to get into the hobby.  My first was Heteroscodra, then P murinus and Hysterocrates, Ceratogyrus, Pelinobious, etc.  Really enjoyed the fiesty personalities.  Plus they were far more industrious, digging and spinning all the time, unlike most of the NW's that just loafed around and stared off into space.  And it was nice having spiders without urticating hairs!  Asian terrestrials were slower to be accepted into the hobby, and weren't popular for years (even in the 1990's), with the exception H lividum.  They were fast and aggressive, and people didn't like them; at the time there were only a few species to choose from.  Boy, has that changed.  That's where I've seen the most growth.  

When I saw my first Poec, about 20 years ago, they became my favorite and still are to this day.  I've currently got over 60 species of tarantulas, and love them all (believe it or not, I am selective), but Poecs have a special place in my heart.  I don't care how rare or how common they are, or what their retail price is; there's nothing else like them.  To me, they're the pinnacle of tarantula evolution.

---------- Post added 11-11-2013 at 10:58 PM ----------




ReclusiveDemon said:


> I find a lot of the OW species beautiful and interesting, but admittedly I'm not exactly comfortable with the idea. Buying one would probably mean getting into a crash course with a fast, angry spider. You're probably right about now not being the time.



Hey, take your time.  Prices will only go down.  Get comfortable with the high-strung NW's first, and then ease into something like Ceratogyrus.  You don't ever have to get any of the super-fast species, unless you really feel ready for them.  It's all relative.  I used to have a large cobra collection (150 at my peak) so for me, the worst tarantulas are a walk in the park in comparison.  I'm not going to panic when a Poec zips out of it's cage.   

There are some great NW's.  I really like the big tropical terrestrials, like Pamphobeteus, Phormictopus, Acanthoscurria, Sericopelma, Lasiodora, Xenesthis, the big Grammostolas, and of course Theraphosa.  Those are some impressive spiders.  You don't need OW's to have a nice collection.


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## BobGrill (Nov 11, 2013)

I still am not sure why you're so convinced I'm going to get bitten. I may not be as old or as experienced as you, but I take serious precautions when working around OWs and it's worked for me so far.


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## ReclusiveDemon (Nov 11, 2013)

Poec54 said:


> I prefer them to be 'spirited', to have the courage to stand up to me.  I respect that.  How can you not love a little animal that says 'Get that finger near me again and you'll be sorry.'  Here I am, hundreds of times bigger than it.  My first few years with tarantulas were Brachypelma/Aphonopelma, and they have all the personality of a wet shoe.  My first OW was Ornithoctonus aureotibialis, back in the late 1970's (the artist formerly known as 'Haplopelma minax').  Full of piss and vinegar.  Loved them.  I had really wanted to get some baboon spiders, but it took a long time for them to get into the hobby.  My first was Heteroscodra, then P murinus and Hysterocrates, Ceratogyrus, Pelinobious, etc.  Really enjoyed the fiesty personalities.  Plus they were far more industrious, digging and spinning all the time, unlike most of the NW's that just loafed around and stared off into space.  And it was nice having spiders without urticating hairs!  Asian terrestrials were slower to be accepted into the hobby, and weren't popular for years (even in the 1990's), with the exception H lividum.  They were fast and aggressive, and people didn't like them; at the time there were only a few species to choose from.  Boy, has that changed.  That's where I've seen the most growth.
> 
> When I saw my first Poec, about 20 years ago, they became my favorite and still are to this day.  I've currently got over 60 species of tarantulas, and love them all (believe it or not, I am selective), but Poecs have a special place in my heart.  I don't care how rare or how common they are, or what their retail price is; there's nothing else like them.  To me, they're the pinnacle of tarantula evolution.
> 
> ...


High-strung NW's such as? Also, that's a lot of freaking cobras. What would possess you to have so many? You must have had to sleep with one eye open. 

And it's true that you don't _need_ OW's, but you said yourself, there's no other T like a Pokey.  I understand that I should consider them off limits, so I'll just have to settle with looking at pictures of other peoples.


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## Poec54 (Nov 11, 2013)

ReclusiveDemon said:


> High-strung NW's such as? Also, that's a lot of freaking cobras. What would possess you to have so many? You must have had to sleep with one eye open.
> 
> And it's true that you don't _need_ OW's, but you said yourself, there's no other T like a Pokey.  I understand that I should consider them off limits, so I'll just have to settle with looking at pictures of other peoples.


The tropical terrestrials NW's are more nervous.  If you can deal with those successfully for a while, then progress to the next step.  You may not want to go to the next step, which is fine.  there's so many species available now, you can have a colorful and varied collection just focusing on a group of T's.  

I tend to do things in moderation (ha!) and for some reason really relate to cobras and tarantulas.  There's many species of both, which lends itself to collecting.  Anything worth doing is worth overdoing.  I have several hundred palms in my yard too.  Must be some sort of mental abberation...


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## viper69 (Nov 11, 2013)

Poec54 said:


> I prefer them to be 'spirited', to have the courage to stand up to me.  I respect that.  How can you not love a little animal that says 'Get that finger near me again and you'll be sorry.'  Here I am, hundreds of times bigger than it.  My first few years with tarantulas were Brachypelma/Aphonopelma, and they have all the personality of a wet shoe.  My first OW was Ornithoctonus aureotibialis, back in the late 1970's (the artist formerly known as 'Haplopelma minax').  Full of piss and vinegar.  Loved them.  I had really wanted to get some baboon spiders, but it took a long time for them to get into the hobby.  My first was Heteroscodra, then P murinus and Hysterocrates, Ceratogyrus, Pelinobious, etc.  Really enjoyed the fiesty personalities.  Plus they were far more industrious, digging and spinning all the time, unlike most of the NW's that just loafed around and stared off into space.  And it was nice having spiders without urticating hairs!  Asian terrestrials were slower to be accepted into the hobby, and weren't popular for years (even in the 1990's), with the exception H lividum.  They were fast and aggressive, and people didn't like them; at the time there were only a few species to choose from.  Boy, has that changed.  That's where I've seen the most growth.
> 
> When I saw my first Poec, about 20 years ago, they became my favorite and still are to this day.  I've currently got over 60 species of tarantulas, and love them all (believe it or not, I am selective), but Poecs have a special place in my heart.  I don't care how rare or how common they are, or what their retail price is; there's nothing else like them.  To me, they're the pinnacle of tarantula evolution.




Interesting thoughts. That's how I feel about wolverines. Granted they are much larger, but they will take on anything in their path, and they are such endurance mammals too. Yeah I hear you on the variety issue. I remember Cobalt blues too and that was about it, fast forward to today and there's oodles of species and colors in the hobby now. I wasn't ready for an OW species back then myself (I was still only into herps really). Yah they are industrious, my Singapore Blue and C. marshalli win that category.

Nah, I don't think owning 60 species means you aren't selective. I'd be the same way with snakes if I had the space etc, and there are many I have zero interest in owning.

Poki's the Pinnacle of Evolution...what do you mean by that exactly? As an expression of your enthusiasm for them, or you really think they are more evolved/advanced etc than other Ts? Hmm that's interesting... The Gooty Ornamental is my favorite looking T hands down, the moment I saw one, I thought I have to own one. However, the OW concern still there. I have a P. rufilata now, I'll start off slow. I also agree it is nice that OWs don't have the U-hairs!


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## Poec54 (Nov 12, 2013)

viper69 said:


> Poki's the Pinnacle of Evolution...what do you mean by that exactly? As an expression of your enthusiasm for them, or you really think they are more evolved/advanced etc than other Ts? Hmm that's interesting.


Partly personal preference.  The sleek build, long legs, and big scopulae are the ultimate spider form.  Partly their speed, agility, & alertness.  I think arboreals are more highly evolved, and tend to be more intelligent; they have to make more decisions up in trees, and wrong ones can mean a long fall.  Peocs seem more intelligent to me, than most if not all other tarantulas, not that I can prove it.  Plus the markings are colors are outstanding.  It's the whole package.


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## ReclusiveDemon (Nov 12, 2013)

Poec54 said:


> The tropical terrestrials NW's are more nervous.  If you can deal with those successfully for a while, then progress to the next step.  You may not want to go to the next step, which is fine.  there's so many species available now, you can have a colorful and varied collection just focusing on a group of T's.
> 
> I tend to do things in moderation (ha!) and for some reason really relate to cobras and tarantulas.  There's many species of both, which lends itself to collecting.  Anything worth doing is worth overdoing.  I have several hundred palms in my yard too.  Must be some sort of mental abberation...


So, something like a Nhandu? What about Ephebopus? N. chromatus and E. murinus are also T's that I'd like.


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## Poec54 (Nov 12, 2013)

ReclusiveDemon said:


> So, something like a Nhandu? What about Ephebopus? N. chromatus and E. murinus are also T's that I'd like.


All are excellent intermediate T's, and colorful.


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## ReclusiveDemon (Nov 12, 2013)

Poec54 said:


> All are excellent intermediate T's, and colorful.


The Tarantula Keeper's Guide says that Ephebopus spp. need elevated humidity, but they don't say whether or not they are obligate burrowers. From what I've read on this site, they are. Have you kept them, and if so, did you keep them in a different way?


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## viper69 (Nov 12, 2013)

ReclusiveDemon said:


> So, something like a Nhandu? What about Ephebopus? N. chromatus and E. murinus are also T's that I'd like.


The BlueFangs are really pretty. Blue, orange/yellow, metallic green. I like mine.


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## BobGrill (Nov 12, 2013)

Yeah I will probably end up getting one somewhere down the road, I'm just a little short on room right now.


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## ReclusiveDemon (Nov 13, 2013)

viper69 said:


> The BlueFangs are really pretty. Blue, orange/yellow, metallic green. I like mine.





BobGrill said:


> Yeah I will probably end up getting one somewhere down the road, I'm just a little short on room right now.


How should I go about keeping the substrate damp?


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## BobGrill (Nov 13, 2013)

I wouldn't worry about keeping it damp all the time. You could mist it, but there's of course debate as to whether or not that's even effective.


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## viper69 (Nov 13, 2013)

BobGrill said:


> I wouldn't worry about keeping it damp all the time. You could mist it, but there's of course debate as to whether or not that's even effective.


Bob's right on that.  Demon...A friend of mine had one in a peat based substrate and didn't have problems. Coco fiber is good WHEN it's moist. However, once it dries out, keeping it moist is difficult in my opinion. For one species, I used a syringe and penetrated deep into the substrate to add little bits of water. The problem I found to some degree is always, overwater you get unhappy T and/or mold etc, and the cocofiber only absorbs the water locally. The water doesn't spread very well in my opinion. The misting at the top only works for the surface. I took some Avics recently, gave them dry cocofiber (granted they don't burrow and rarely come down unless looking for crickets IME) and have been living with dry substrate their whole lives, from 1/2" into 4" DLS size. Are they happy..who knows, are they eating as they should yes, are they behaving as I've heard/seen/read of others Avics in captivity, I believe so.

I rarely mist to form water droplets. I use my syringe and strategically place them for my P irminia, and so far that works. However, I will say this, I do believe that misting is effecting in getting their attention to drink. My P irminia, initially misted for drinking, would come and out and drink. They I switched overnight, and I have added water droplets and that works just as well. I think a combination of very light, fine misting, combined with adding droplets works best at least w/my P irminia. My GBB, Rosea will just drink when I add water. I still find watering a tricky issue, w/no concrete method that works for all issues, be it drinking or substrate humidity

The misting, IMO, opinion simulates rain. Plus the air feels different, so I THINK, they know it's time to drink, as opposed to just adding droplets of water. Just my 2cents.


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