# Roaches - Blatta lateralis



## Charlie_Scorp (Jan 8, 2007)

Ok, I know this topic comes up quite frequently but I am getting a bit fed up of crickets. Mine never smell too bad but its getting a little more expensive now that I keep more animals. 
Now, I know some people favor roach sp. A or roach sp. B etc but I get the impression that Blatta lateralis (Red runners, I think) are pretty neat. They have soft bodies with a good 'meat' to exoskeleton ratio, are highly prolific,  PLUS they cant climb glass or smooth plastic. 

My question is whether any one else uses they guys and what they think of them....


Charlie


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## docevazan (Jan 8, 2007)

I switched over to lateralis roaches about 3 months ago and never looked back.  They're the perfect replacement, don't smell, make noise or climb: I just tossed the 50 that I bought into a glass aquarium, smeared vaseline around the top (just to be extra safe), put a heat pad on the side, and dont do much to maintain them besides throw in some dry dog food and shredded carrot every couple days.  They don't seem to cannibalize their young either, I've been feeding them pretty heavily to my 20+ T's since day 1 and there seems to be more than ever in there, with egg cases all over the place.


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## Charlie_Scorp (Jan 8, 2007)

Well, thats exactly what I wanted to hear! Presumably you constantly have a nice range of sizes also?
1 other thing. I hear they are amazingly fast, even more so that lobsters. How do you go about catching and feeding them?


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## Cirith Ungol (Jan 8, 2007)

Well, catching them is easy. I use tweezers and grab them by the back part of the abdomen (no brain there it seems so they always recover quite quickly). Catching isn't the real problem, releasing them into the tank is! Never ever let one out of sight or control while transfering them into the tank! These things can flip out of your grasp and scuttle off between your belongings in no time and finding them then is near impossible. Personally I'm a bit lucky on that part though, since almost every single escapee has been found in the bathroom (presumably it's the moisture that draws them there). The one that wasn't found there was found by the cat (I followed its trail of destruction and as I assumed I would, found a missing roach on the other end).

So: tweeze them, squeeze them, and never let go unless you're sure the thing falls into the tank. Other than that, they're just great!

Food: Sweet fruits go down well and dog food pellets. I've also come up with my own "roach quencher". I just stir up some gelatin powder (made purely out of animal products!) in hot water, press the juice of an orange into it and then let it cool down in the fridge until it's solid. At room temperature that stuff melts so slowly that there's always just the tiniest puddle of water arround the edges the roaches can drink from and the orange juice helps them to find it easier and to like it better.


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## Taceas (Jan 8, 2007)

I have a colony of them as well and they are a pretty good roach thus far. I had  Lobster roaches previously and I really like these a lot better. 

These have little to no odor, eat anything, are prolific (once I figured out they needed more humidity to hatch the egg cases) and best of all they cannot climb glass or smooth plastic. I had lobsters everywhere when I had them, even with Bug Stop or vaseline.

I feed mine a roach diet from www.thecarnivorousorchid.com and they get a half of an apple every 4-5 days for moisture. 

These are a softer exoskeleton insect and most of my spiders greedily gobble them up. The nymphs also don't burrow when placed into enclosures, something which the lobster nymphs excelled at it seems. 

I say give them a try and see how you fare. I could never go back to crickets as a staple diet. For me it was a waste of money, as I was never very adept at keeping them alive. So by the time I got a box of 1000, half were dead in a couple of days. And oh my gosh the odor, I've smelled better smelling litterboxes!

You should search for Blatta lateralis posts on the forum, I know they've been discussed occasionally down in the "Insect section". =)


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## Charlie_Scorp (Jan 8, 2007)

DONE!  I now have about 75 arriving in a couple of days. Mixture of adults and nymphs so I guess we'll just see how it goes. Thanks for the help and advice. Think I'll go for some cat/dog dry food and then some fruit for moisture and I guess extra vits and mins. Humidity for the egg cases and hay presto...well, we'll see


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## Mina (Jan 8, 2007)

I agree they are wonderful, just be careful not to give them too much humidity.  If you do you will get little white mites that are so small they look like moving grains of sand and they get everywhere!!!  They are harmless, but I didn't want them in with my T's or my scorps.  Just thought you would want to know.


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## musihuto (Jan 8, 2007)

if you keep the main colony too moist, you may start to get a faint manure-like odour...  though doesn't compare to the stench of crickets!

i have a seperate, small, high-humidity hatching chambre, i pick out egg cases every three days or so, (takes about 5 minutes) and transfer them...  i heavily mist this whenever i add the egg cases, and then i mix the eggs and soil (allowing it to remain loose).  i have a piece of egg-crate covering the soil, and the nymphs tend to hang to its underside.  i take this out and shake the nymphs loose onto my main colony.
i seem to be hatching about 100-200 nymphs a week right now, from my 100 - 150 adults.

this way, my main colony only needs to be moist enough so that egg cases can survive 1-3 days until i collect them.  this avoids any mould and odour issues...

i feed mine a staple diet of high-end dog food (the stuff my mother feeds her beloved airedale), and chopped carrots...  occasionally, apples, mixed organic greens, etc. also get fed..  they're nice, but not entirely necessary.  i've heard some lower quality dog foods may contain i) red dye, ii) some sort of fungicide.  both of these, while non-lethal lower the lifespan of roaches, and presumably if bio-accumulative may have possibly more severe effects on arachnids/myriapods/herps/etc.  something to keep in mind!

as a water source, i use agar jelly, which i get in powder form from the health food store...  i use 1 part powder to 50 parts water..  its made from some sort of seaweed i think?  and doesn't go bad like gelatin, and remains solid at higher temperatures.

               cheers! 
                                - munis


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## Charlie_Scorp (Jan 8, 2007)

Muinis...Im glad to hear you sorted out your 'mould and odour issues' 
Seriously though everyone...I googled around for a couple of days and didn't find this much useful information so thank you very much! I in turn will let you know how I get along of course.
Agar..hmm..yes, its from algae and luckily thats easily got hold of although I was under the impression that the fruit/veg would be enough...as I use with my crickets (I use carrot also).

Anyway, thanks to all of you for your help. If anyone has anything to add feel free but its looks pretty comprehensive now! 

Charlie


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## Cirith Ungol (Jan 8, 2007)

Charlie_Scorp said:


> DONE!  I now have about 75 arriving in a couple of days. Mixture of adults and nymphs so I guess we'll just see how it goes. Thanks for the help and advice. Think I'll go for some cat/dog dry food and then some fruit for moisture and I guess extra vits and mins. Humidity for the egg cases and hay presto...well, we'll see


Skip the cat food, it has too much protein for roaches. They can only use so much protein in their food before it litterally kills them.


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## Charlie_Scorp (Jan 8, 2007)

Another nugget of info I shall talke on board. I thought the higher levels of protein for a good thing. Where did you get that info? Thanks for that?


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## Mr. Mordax (Jan 8, 2007)

I'd like to add that while tarantulas seem to _love_ these roaches, some scorpions can be quite picky.  Mine never ate them, and so far have only accepted crickets and mealworms.


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## Charlie_Scorp (Jan 8, 2007)

Hmmm..thats a little disconcerting. Cirith Ungol and Docevanan, were you refering to your success being with Scorps (I hope so!) 

Charlie


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## musihuto (Jan 8, 2007)

hey...
for the record, i never had mould or odour issues myself, from hearing about others' experiences, i avoided them from the get-go, as you hopefully will too!

if you have a constant source of fresh vegetables, an additional water source is not necessary...  though it can't hurt, and doesn't require much extra effort imo.  i mean, if you're trying to absolutely maximize the productivity of your colony, you should probably do it...   if you're taking a more laid back approach, then don't bother!  

wrt protein, different roach species have different requirements, n. cinerea and e. prosticus for example require higher protein e.g. catfood, or will start to eat each other i believe...
for b. lateralis though, dog food seems ok!

oh yes, and as for scorps:  a number of my scorps, c. vitattus, c. gracilis, m. martensii, h. franzwerneri, and h. polystictus have all accepted b. lateralis of varying sizes!
i haven't tried feeding them to non-buthids yet...  there *might* be a difference maybe??

              cheers! 
                                 - munis


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## Rizzolo (Jan 9, 2007)

i do what musihuto described, taking out the egg cases ever couple of days to hatch separately.  that increase production immensely.  otherwise, the egg cases dry up and not nearly as many hatch.  that way you can keep the colony drier and avoid the slightly funky smell (still not nearly as bad as crickets).  

also, my Blatta lateralis don't enjoy dog food nearly as much as my B. dubia.  maybe i just don't have the right brand.  but they love love love potatoes, zucchini, mushrooms and red leaf lettuce.  they eat some sweet fruit, but not nearly as much as they eat of the others.  mushrooms disappear like magic!  my dubia love oranges, but my lateralis seem to eat very little of them.  

good luck


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## Mr. Mordax (Jan 9, 2007)

The only scorps I offered them to were in Scorpionidae.  My baby buthid hasn't accepted them yet, but I'll keep trying.


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## musihuto (Jan 10, 2007)

totally out of curiosity,
what species is the buthid which rejects lateralis nymphs?

            cheers! 
                          - munis



IHeartMantids said:


> The only scorps I offered them to were in Scorpionidae.  My baby buthid hasn't accepted them yet, but I'll keep trying.


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## Mr. Mordax (Jan 10, 2007)

_Parabuthus leiosoma._  Roaches have a habit of finding impossible to reach hiding places, so I don't keep the feeders in with him.  But I'll see him patrolling his terrarium with his pinchers open . . . So I'll reach over to try feeding . . . and he scurries away in fear!

If I take his hide out and just offer him _B. laterallis_ nymphs or mealworms, he seems more intent on escape than anything else.  I may just have to bite the bullet and go back to crickets.  :evil:


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## Stylopidae (Jan 10, 2007)

I've never been a fan of B. lateralis simply because quite a few knowledgable people are quite adamant that they can infest.

Discoids are pretty good feeders, as are dubia (but also expensive).

Lobsters right now are my favorite soley because of price, but I'm going to be investigating more options here soon.

Quite a few people dislike lobster roaches because they climb or they say that their pets don't like them.

I've never had a problem with the latter, with the possible exception of one male A. seemani who was in pre-moult.


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## Dom (Jan 10, 2007)

My WC adult centruroides don't seem to like lateralis but they will take dubia.
My CB Centruroides and other scorps eat lateralis no problem.


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## Cirith Ungol (Jan 10, 2007)

Cheshire said:


> I've never been a fan of B. lateralis simply because quite a few knowledgable people are quite adamant that they can infest.


In the right circumstances (humidity, bad container) yes, certainly. If kept safely in a hight box with clean, smooth walls - not before the next ice age (I wonder what that movie is gonna be about  )


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## Charlie_Scorp (Jan 10, 2007)

Oh dear...and my thread started so well.....lol
No, Im still confident they're a good choice but only time will tell. Too late now anyway..they'll be here tomorrow and the fun shall begin. I'll let you know what my guys think...


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## Cirith Ungol (Jan 10, 2007)

Charlie_Scorp said:


> Oh dear...and my thread started so well.....lol
> No, Im still confident they're a good choice but only time will tell. Too late now anyway..they'll be here tomorrow and the fun shall begin. I'll let you know what my guys think...


Don't worry. They're very good roaches. Just work out some safe procedure for feeding so that non of them escape while you try feeding them off. That is in my opinion the only real problem with those. The main thing to remember: NEVER!!!! grab them by the legs to transfer them into the tank! Every second time you do that the legs will rip off and the roach will still be out of sight in no time.


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## Charlie_Scorp (Jan 10, 2007)

Oh dear, Im clearly going to be posting in a month asking how the hell I get rid of 2000 roaches in my house..lol!!

Fear not! I shall be cautious..


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## musihuto (Jan 11, 2007)

with respect to scorpion eating...  a lot of my scorpions don't like being watched!  especially my little h. franzwerneri scorplings...  in the spirit of ambush predators, they run like hell if they run into anything else moving in their containers...  however, if they're in their hide with their chelae just barely sticking out, and something ventures near, that's an entirely different story!  

i think that as long as they aren't being stressed by light, or having a large unknown thing looming over them (a person), scorpions are actually quite good at detecting prey.  just as long as it doesn't burrow directly into the substrate as i hear b. dubia are prone to doing!

also, personally, i guess depends on where you live, but i just don't see b. lateralis infesting unless you live in a warm humid climate...  without some sort of substrate to lay their oothecae on/in they dry out way too quickly, which i think really limits their ability to infest..  i would be much much more worried about an n. cinerea infestation given the glass-climbing and live-birthing!

the occasional b. lateralis (as well as cricket) escapee eventually finds its way to my bathroom due to the higher humidity, but guess what?  there's nothing in my bathroom for them to eat!   

                  cheers! 
                                    - munis


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## Rizzolo (Jan 11, 2007)

*what was this thead about?*

i had forgotten the original post!    i have to share my experience with B lateralis. [they look an awful lot like the nasty infesting roaches! those are usually Blattella germanica, the german cockroach, in my area. ]  

B lateralis will definely get away from you sooner or later.  they are good at getting out of containers even if they can't climb the walls (not very well, at least).  also, as Cirith Ungol noted, they will drop their legs to get away, and it is very tempting to try a transfer with a leg grip - almost always ends in escape.   finally, they are fast! and have a good chance of outrunning you to reach safety. 

however, if you have a warm enclosure that you use to house your animals, they seem to stick around and try to get back into where the warmth humidity and food is.  i have had escapee B lateralis end up in my dubias mysteriously- figure out that they were climbing into the container, under the insulation i had on the outside.  

so, on to my solution.  [actually, i have a big problem with Argentine Ants (supercolony in our neighborhood) and so my solution is mainly intended to deal with them, but also fixes the roaches.  I use boric acid powder, a common ingredient in roach dusting poison.  i put a layer of the dust entirely around the shelves that house both my roach colonies and my Ts.  it stops the ants from getting in and kils any roaches that cross it, either on their way in or out.  if a roach gets loose while i am feeding the Ts - table close by - then they invariably head for the shelve and cross the boric acid. it takes a while for them to die, but they are a goner for sure if they cross over the powder.  

i was worried that some boric acid would get into my containers, or into my Ts containers, carried by ants or roaches, or from my handling.  in about 6 months of using it, i have not noticed an ill effects and everybody, including the roaches in the colonies, are thriving.  boric acid is recognized as one of the most effective roach control strategies, both because of its relative low toxicity to humans and other animals, and to its long residence once applied. 

i have had a few ant incursions - I HATE THAT - but it is always because the sneaky devils found a new way around the boric acid.  they have been known to travel long distances on electrical cords to bridge the boric acid moat.  :evil: 

so, without boric acid, i would have to sell all my widows and Ts because they would be ant food in about a day, any time of year, if it weren't for the boric acid.  that reminds me, i need to buy another bag of it (i have used about 2 oz in 6 months - not bad).  As a side benefit, i am absolutely certain that any roaches that escape will be history.  

another big difference between the Blattella germanica and the B lateralis that makes them less likely to infest is that the B germanica reportedly carry their egg cases until just before they hatch, whereas the B lateralis just drop theirs.  in my experience, they dry out pretty fast and few, if any, would ever hatch (both due to the dryness and low temperatures).  even in my colony, i need to collect the egg cases to keep them from shriveling up from the dry (partially due to the heating i use too probably). 

So, i am not worried about infestation.  Fortunately, my wife buys it for now.  i am in trouble (and so are the roaches!) if one shows up anywhere else in our house! 
Oh, and the Ts love them, as do the widows.  the only critter i have that absolutely won't eat them is my trapdoor spider.  i haven't seen him to ask him why though!


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## Dom (Jan 11, 2007)

I think whether they will infest or not depends on your house/lifestyle.
I've found that the females won't lay eggs when it gets into the mid 70'sF. They eggs don't really hatch in the mid 70's either and definitely not in the low 70's. They also need fairly high humidity to hatch. 78F seems to be about the low point for reproduction IME. How well they do would depend on whether they had a food and water source. They definitely need a good water source to grow.
If you have a heated humid bug/herp room I guess the eggs could (?) hatch. Survival of the nymphs would depend on a good water and food source. If your house is pretty clean and you don't leave dog/cat/rodent food out I wouldn't be too concerned.
I've got a few hundred nymphs that I keep in the 62-69F range and they have probably molted once in the past 3 months. The majority of them haven't even molted at those temps yet. If you're in England I definitely wouldn't be too concerned.


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## jojobear (Jan 11, 2007)

I LOVE BLAT LATS!!!  

With that said here is the main reason I love them:

*They don't burrow into the substrate, like some roaches, when you put them in your T's/scorp's cage.* 
Out of the dozen or so types of roaches I raise these are my absolute favorite feeder roaches. 

Rizzolo: I use the same barrier method against ants and escapees except I use Sevin dust and it does the trick.

In regard to scorps eating them: The only scorp I had a problem with were my WC O. wahlbergii (sp) and I solved that by pulling the roaches heads off and putting it right at the entrance to the scorps burrow and then they ate them like candy.


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## Charlie_Scorp (Jan 11, 2007)

Well, mine arrived today safe and sound. I guess there must be 100 of them in all. The first thing that struck me is that they're quite handsome little fellows. I think they look really cool!
The bad thing is that I dont think I have any adults. Judging from this I would estimate that I have 40% 4rd instar, 30% 3rd and 30% 2nd with maybe 2-3 5th. How long do you think I will have to wait in this case for them to mature and for me to get some egg cases?? Im keeping them quite warm so hope this will help.







Thanks in advance, 

Charlie


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## musihuto (Jan 12, 2007)

2-3 months depending on your temperatures i'd say...  if you're in a hurry, and are capable of ensuring humidity, you can go as high as 100*F 

               cheers! 
                       - munis



Charlie_Scorp said:


> Well, mine arrived today safe and sound. I guess there must be 100 of them in all. The first thing that struck me is that they're quite handsome little fellows. I think they look really cool!
> The bad thing is that I dont think I have any adults. Judging from this I would estimate that I have 40% 4rd instar, 30% 3rd and 30% 2nd with maybe 2-3 5th. How long do you think I will have to wait in this case for them to mature and for me to get some egg cases?? Im keeping them quite warm so hope this will help.
> 
> 
> ...


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## Charlie_Scorp (Jan 12, 2007)

Im also a day gecko keeper. Humidity is my middle name!
Okay, thats a bit of a shame but I'll whack the temp up and see how I fare.

BTW, does anyone know is these can be pathenogenic or whether there is a wingless male morph?


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## Rizzolo (Jan 12, 2007)

*your new B lats*

that sure looks like a mature male on the far left of the picture.  the one next to it might be a mature female, but looks small still.  you might begin getting egg sacs before too long, but it will take several months for the colony to really kick in.  for one thing, the eggs take forever to hatch out!   

At 6 months, mine has exploded and my wife gave me the ultimatum to get rid of some.  i cleaned out the cage last night because i finally got bunch of new egg flats.  i was astounded at how many nymphs i have now (probably a half-gallon of small to medium nymphs!  Unfortunately, my 6-year-old told his mom that i have "thousands of roaches," which is not an exaggeration.  unfortunate use of words though!!

Be careful how you feed out of your colony.  if you feed out to heavily, and indiscriminately, you will really slow it down.  Best not to feed from it until you have egg cases hatching.  Don't feed off the mature females (hard not to because they are so much fatter than the males) and leave some mature males.  Try and get as many mature roaches as possible in your colony and feed off only the nymphs until it gets rockin'.   

i use the egg case incubators and i attribute the success of my colony to them.  otherwise, i don't think nearly as many egg cases would hatch.  there are other benefits too: you can separate the generations so that you don't have to fool around to sort them out for feeding, you have less intergenerational inbreeding (not sure this matters) and you can more easily keep your original colony intact and then rotate in the next generation as the originals get old.  then you have to have multiple containers though - too much hassle for me.


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## musihuto (Jan 17, 2007)

i'm experimenting with 2" of soil (NYR's "Inverte-mix") substrate in my main colony, seems to be good at holding moisture and virtually odourless...  no conclusive results yet, but seems promising!


            cheers! 
                              - munis


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## EAD063 (Jan 17, 2007)

Just wanted to add that you made a good decision buying roaches even if they take time to rear, I may follow suit... I had a cricket drown in a gatoreade bottle cap last night, the scorpion is smaller than the cricket and he gets out of the cap just fine, pretty ridiclous huh.


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## Mr. Mordax (Jan 17, 2007)

While my scorps may look down on lats with distain, I'd like to point out that my uropygid (vinegaroon) _loves_ them.  Must be closer to tarantulas than scorpions .


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## guitarlust (Feb 12, 2007)

i'm currently waiting for the arrival of 100 b. laterallis and am hoping that my Ts will take them down with no problems. i currently am using mealworms with no problem but i am getting bored of not being able to watch them hunt their food. i did not want crickets so opted for roaches. here's to starting a colony.


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## Thiscordia (Feb 12, 2007)

How long does it takes the egg case to hatch?
thanks.
-.Raul


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