# how can you distinguish a male & female scorps?



## yokkohmorata (Jul 22, 2009)

how can you distinguish a male & female scorps?

can you explain to me guys?im kinda new here and im a new scorpion owner..
and i want to breed them..

pictures are appriciated


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## GideonSmith08 (Jul 22, 2009)

No pics, but the males usually have longer tails, I think.


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## yokkohmorata (Jul 22, 2009)

what if they have the same length of tails?i read about them..
is it true that females are much bigger than males?


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## K3jser (Jul 22, 2009)

GideonSmith08 said:


> No pics, but the males usually have longer tails, I think.


that really depends on the genus and sometimes the species of the scorpion.. 

yokkohmorata if you could tell us what species of scorpion you want to know the sex of it whould be alot easier, because there are many ways of doing so.. 
Pectine count
Pectine size
chela size
"morphology" of the chela
just for starters..


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## yokkohmorata (Jul 22, 2009)

i have:
2 Red Alligator Back (Hottentotta hottentotta)

2 Asian Forest Black (Heterometrus longimanus)

they all have 1 instars


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## Alakdan (Jul 22, 2009)

yokkohmorata said:


> i have:
> 2 Red Alligator Back (Hottentotta hottentotta)
> 
> 2 Asian Forest Black (Heterometrus longimanus)
> ...


They all have 1 instars. . . on their back?:?   Then they must be female.

I didn't know Red alligator back was the common name for H.h.  Anyway, 99% of specimens in the hobby are female and parthenogenic.  You won't need a mate.

H. longimanus can be sexed by looking at the pectine combs and the shape of the genital operculum.  There has been numerous posts on this one, I'm just too lazy to use the search function.


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## yokkohmorata (Jul 22, 2009)

Alakdan said:


> They all have 1 instars. . . on their back?:?   Then they must be female.
> 
> I didn't know Red alligator back was the common name for H.h.  Anyway, 99% of specimens in the hobby are female and parthenogenic.  You won't need a mate.
> 
> H. longimanus can be sexed by looking at the pectine combs and the shape of the genital operculum.  There has been numerous posts on this one, I'm just too lazy to use the search function.


what the heck is this?pectine combs & genital operculum?
sorry..i did not do my homework lastnight about my pets..
can explain to me further?can you post any images what are those?


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## calum (Jul 22, 2009)

ok, the genital operculum and the pectines are all associated with mating (the pectines do other things as well though) 

here's a graph 
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_u9_6FZSKHtk/RtGrahcO4hI/AAAAAAAAAC8/PJLWUrmHOTE/s400/PECTINES.JPG

some scorpion species can be sexed by the shape of the genital operculum, sive of the pectinal combs, the pectinal tooth counts, etc. it's different for every species though, and not all species can be easily sexed just by looking at this area. But pandinus & heterometrus can be sexed this way.


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## calum (Jul 22, 2009)

oh and you can't really sex scorpions when they are 1st instar. you gotta wait till they are a little older.


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## yokkohmorata (Jul 22, 2009)

how old should i sex them?..
can you give me some pointers about instars?cause the pet store told me that its 1instars..

how many weeks does it take to became 2instars?3?4?


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## Alakdan (Jul 22, 2009)

yokkohmorata said:


> what the heck is this?pectine combs & genital operculum?
> sorry..i did not do my homework lastnight about my pets..
> can explain to me further?can you post any images what are those?


Which is why I suggested the search function.  This is how I learned things 3 years ago.  Anyway, to get you started here is apicture of what you should be looking for to sex heterometrus.







The one in the middle is the operculum, while the V shape thing are the pectines.  This is from a Heterometrus fulvipes specimen.

Also, don't believe what the petstores tell you.  Your scorp can't be 1 instar, because if it is, this means it should still be on its mom's back.  After birth, the scorp is considered as 1st instar.  After about 2 weeks they molt to 2nd instar.  During this period they need to stay on their mom's back to survive.  Afterwhich they start to leave her and disperse.  This is the only time scorplings are housed separately.


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## yokkohmorata (Jul 22, 2009)

How About Male Scorps?..do You Have Some Images Of A Male Genitals?so That I Can Compare Them?

And..how Old Are They Where Can I See That They Are Famale Or Male?


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## Alakdan (Jul 22, 2009)

Here's one from a male H. fulvipes






Try this one
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=50720&highlight=sexual+dimorphism


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## Lucozade3000 (Jul 22, 2009)

You will have to wait a few month to sex them, at the moment if they are 1st in, its simply impossible.
I am quiet surprised that the pet store sold you such young animals given your lack of experience and being your first!
Scorplings require a bit more care than adults.
Could you post some pics?

-J


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## alexi (Jul 22, 2009)

yokko, if you have questions like this, people on here can answer it, but really its so much faster and easier to just go to "www.google.com" and type in "scorpion."  I'm not trying to be rude, but it will be so much faster for you to just do a google search.


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## Nomadinexile (Jul 22, 2009)

I understand that alexi, trust me, but have you googled much of anything lately?  Scorpion?  I'm going to go do that real quick and brb...
19,900,000 results for "scorpion"  Do you think he has a lifetime to figure out the sex of his scorpions?     I am not trying to be rude alexi, I'm just saying.
 




alexi said:


> yokko, if you have questions like this, people on here can answer it, but really its so much faster and easier to just go to "www.google.com" and type in "scorpion."  I'm not trying to be rude, but it will be so much faster for you to just do a google search.


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## Nomadinexile (Jul 22, 2009)

You probably have 2nd instars.  First instars generally look like little clear pieces of rice almost.  If you got first instars, you really should be careful.  They are very likely to die on you.  If they are second, they are still a little more likely to die on you than 3rd instar, but you should be o.k. with them.  
If you actually bought first instar, (show us a pic and we will tell you), you should take them back to pet store and get a refund.  Scorpions at first instars are like a premature born human, or a baby dog;  you may keep them alive, but they really just aren't ready to leave mom yet!  Get us a pic!  OH, and congrats on new purchase, those are cool species you can't get in most pet stores here!  Welcome to AB, and if you have any questions, just ask, people will almost always tell you you should have searched for info, but it's not easy info to find, and that's part of why we are all here!  Welcome!  Peace, ryan


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## alexi (Jul 22, 2009)

well i was saying in general.  Maybe you can't find how to sex specifically an H.H., that could take some digging, so you come here and ask.  But in terms of what is a pectine and stuff, I just typed "scorpion pectine comb" into google, and the very first image that came up showed you not only a pectine, but how to sex an emp.  

I'm not saying be afraid to ask questions, but help yourself out and give google a chance first, its a lot faster if it turns out plenty of people have asked the same question before.


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## Nomadinexile (Jul 22, 2009)

I see where you are coming from alexi, I really do.  I understand your point completely and agree with you 100%.  However, this post is a little on the dry side and not very friendly.  He is new to AB and as such is going to make mistakes and has to learn biology and terminology before searching is going to help a whole lot.  (I am just getting to where I can find stuff I am looking for without getting a link handed to me!  I'm not on computers a lot, and I am just learning about scorpions.)  Also, from the sentence structure, I believe he/she knows english only as a second or third or forth language.  (Yes, people in other countries learn multiple languages 3,4,5 of them!)
So if he/she is new to scorpions, knows english as a second language, and is new to the website, we should try and give them a break and be friendly.  Also, he/she posted some interesting info on feeder nutritional content today!  So the least we can do is be nice while we attempt to help a newbie who is helping us already!!  He/she will get the search thing.   




alexi said:


> yokko, if you have questions like this, people on here can answer it, but really its so much faster and easier to just go to "www.google.com" and type in "scorpion."  I'm not trying to be rude, but it will be so much faster for you to just do a google search.


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## alexi (Jul 22, 2009)

ok sorry.  yokko sorry if i was mean.  its a cool board don't let my meanness scare you.


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## Nomadinexile (Jul 22, 2009)

You aren't mean, you were just being a little dry.  You are fun to have around.  Just try to turn up the positivity meter a bit on this.   No worries, we all do it too sometimes.  But I just worry about new people not getting it or not feeling welcome.  It all seems so simple to me now, but it wasn't long ago at all that I was new on here and asking questions I could have searched for... (some might still say that...     )   And when I came on here, and had a bunch of people reply SEARCH!, it is a bit off putting, especially the when it was done to me with sarcasm!  So I just try to help remind people.    ryan


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## alexi (Jul 22, 2009)

Nomadinexile said:


> You are fun to have around.


I love you man


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## yokkohmorata (Jul 22, 2009)

*its gettin hot in here!lol*
*thanks a lot for the info guys..i already know how distinguish a male and female scorps..through research and images shown...to nomand,thanks dude for that info..for alexi,its ok!its my fault too not doing my research,im just asking some questions to some experienced people..im so glad that i found this forum...*

*1 more thing..should i return my 1st instar to the pet store?what instars of scorps should i get?*

*pictures will be uploaded this night,im in school guys..im in the philippines so can you wait 13 hours??lol...thnx and more power*


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## Nomadinexile (Jul 22, 2009)

1. I will be on in the morning to see your pics.        (1400gmt)
2. The return thing is a little tricky for me to call for you.  I don't know if their would be any cultural sensitivities that I am unaware of.  And it depends on the store and your relationship to them.  A 1i scorpion should not be off of it's mother, and at very least, if it is, it should sure as heck be kept near her until 2i at very least.  A 1i scorpion away from mom is going to have a much higher chance of death *I don't have personal experience with this.  I have not lost a 1i yet.  But this is considered factual by what I read on here.*  A scorpion at 2i is considered extremely delicate and according to most people I read, shouldn't be sold by pet stores, except maybe to people like us who go online, and read up, and know "enough".    
If you know them, and they think you know a lot about scorpions because you like tarantulas or something, and they tell you, "hey, this is a 1i, it might not make it, but if you want to give it a try it is $___", that is one thing.  If they told you that it is 1i, and they know you don't have scorpions, and they say, "yeah, it's great for pet", I would suggest taking it back.  There is still fluid exchange going on at 1i through the skin, they should stay with mom unless it won't get back on her, at which point it should go in incubator until 2i.  2i is the youngest scorpions should ever be sold.  But is it possible they told you they are 1i and they really didn't know and just made it up?  Or were misinformed maybe?  Or maybe they just don't know what they are doing yet and decided to scrape them off her back and get them out the door, but they should know, or at very least learn, that 2i is the youngest.  Think of it like marsupials.  Even when they are born, they aren't fully developed yet.  If they don't climb into the pouch, find the milk, and stay there for next few months, they will die.  They aren't ready when they are born.  Same with 1i's.  But, you know, your personal situation is your own.  I don't know the whole story.  But if this is just a normal transaction at a store you don't have a working relationship with, I would ask for your money back.  As for what instar you should get, that is up to you.  The molt is the most common time for scorpions to die.  But if you got an adult, you would miss out on this amazing part of life no?  At 3rd instar, their is apparently *from what I have read* a big decrease in mortality rates.  So if you wanted to be on the safe side, and may have to go out of town for a week at a time or something, maybe 3i is better.  But I also know that a lot of scorpions are already sold before they are 3i cb.  So where does that leave you?  Well, some scorpions are more hardy than others.  I don't worry too much about my 2i C. vittatus.  But I wouldn't dare sell a 1i.  Sorry, I am just rambling now.  Good luck, and maybe I can find some links for you later, but I am getting tired quick.    
*1 more thing..should i return my 1st instar to the pet store?what instars of scorps should i get?*

*pictures will be uploaded this night,im in school guys..im in the philippines so can you wait 13 hours??lol...thnx and more power*[/QUOTE]


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## alexi (Jul 23, 2009)

Yeah like nomad said, if you really have a 1st instar that sucks.  A 1st instar looks more like a maggot than a scorpion, and has a really good chance of dying.  Even if it had its mother, so many of them die anyways.  scorpions have 30 babies at a time for a reason.

But yeah if its 1st instar it should be a weak little maggot thing that can barely move smaller than your fingernail.


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## Nomadinexile (Jul 23, 2009)

1rst instar V. waueri.  You may have seen this picture, but I wanted to make sure you looked again with 1i on your mind.  They look like this:


http://s619.photobucket.com/albums/tt279/Nomadinexile/Vwaueri/?action=view&current=IMG_2489.jpg


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## yokkohmorata (Jul 23, 2009)

Nomadinexile i already got my new scorps..i returned my 1st instars to the pet store..me my "pro to scoprs friend" came by to the pet store..and he is the one who picked my scorps...now i got my 3instars H.L. and 3instars H.H..

photos will be seen soon...cause my camera wont work..lols..

thnx to nomadinexile, your the man!!!


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## Nomadinexile (Jul 23, 2009)

glad I could help.


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## yokkohmorata (Jul 23, 2009)

nomand can i ask some newbie questions?can you discuss this to me about molting??any link would help..thnx dude


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## Nomadinexile (Jul 23, 2009)

Sure, shoot away.  But, just so you know, I am not an "expert".  I know a lot about some things, and nothing about others.  I will assist you where I can, but you will most likely get better help from others on here with specific questions.  I don't have the species you have, and know very little about them.  
You will probably get just as much info from searching as you will from me, and maybe a little quicker.  But if I can answer you I will.  *A suggestion when searching....  First, google the Scientific names of your scorps.  Find a site that has a list of the common names used and write them down.  Come back here, get on scorpions, and then use search:scorpions: and then use the scientific name, for example Psuedouroctonus reddelli.  Next try the shortened scientific name as in:  P. reddelli.   Next try with common names: Texas cave scorpion.  You can search for pre-molt, molting, or add scientific and molting.  
*Normally I wouldn't send people on searches if I think I can help them, but I know so little about your species, (I think they are fairly common in U.S., but I just don't have them).  
So, go ahead and ask away, just don't get upset if I can't help, if I can't answer, it's because I don't know!   




yokkohmorata said:


> nomand can i ask some newbie questions?can you discuss this to me about molting??any link would help..thnx dude


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## Brandelmouche (Jul 23, 2009)

Maby that's help you Yokko

http://scorpuspark.e-monsite.com/rubrique,mue,1087434.html


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## AzJohn (Jul 23, 2009)

Please get to know the website better. There is a commonly used thread index. It includes 5 pages on sexing scorpions with a ton of pictures, including species I can only dream of getting. I'm a little surprised that no one brought it up.

I hope that helps
John


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## Nomadinexile (Jul 23, 2009)

Well, the reason is the conversation quickly changed when he told us they were first instars.  Yes, 1i, which meant there was no reason to discuss sexing anymore.




AzJohn said:


> Please get to know the website better. There is a commonly used thread index. It includes 5 pages on sexing scorpions with a ton of pictures, including species I can only dream of getting. I'm a little surprised that no one brought it up.
> 
> I hope that helps
> John


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## yokkohmorata (Jul 24, 2009)

thnx nomand..


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## AzJohn (Jul 24, 2009)

Nomadinexile said:


> Well, the reason is the conversation quickly changed when he told us they were first instars.  Yes, 1i, which meant there was no reason to discuss sexing anymore.


I hope I'm not being rude. I just cann't that the sticky took 31 post before it was brought up. That's what made me want to look. When I saw the title I expected post 2 to be "check the sticky threads". Yokkohmorata was asking a ton of newbie questions, which is great. I think we should point the resources available on this website. The better you understand this web site the more you can get from it. As more experienced hobbiest we should point these things out.


John


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## Nomadinexile (Jul 24, 2009)

You are completely right John.  I am pretty sure he has been told in 3 threads or so now.     (I just checked)  In his "instar" thread they are brought up and links provided.  I need to familiarize myself with this site more too.  I still have problems finding stuff on here.  I don't think the search function here works like google, because when I search on AB, I get a million hits.  I do it on google, and it takes me right where I need on AB!
So I know how hard it is to go through and search this site, and read and learn all the biology, and learn terminology, then search using the right terms.  Then read through 40 pages of jokes and arguments........ Now imagine you just came home with your first Jaguar baby rescue(since you already know about scorpions.)  Wouldn't you go online looking asap?  Would you want to read and learn a website this big BEFORE you start taking care of your jaguar? :?   I think this situation is different, and while he should have been told quicker, the 1rst instar scorpions he bought at the pet store were a bigger concern to me.  I just feel like, sometimes, you have to deal with the situation first, then when dust settles, start explaining.... 
I feel like under the circumstances, Telling him to go read for a while is like running up to a car accident with major injuries screaming at the drivers for driving badly.   That can wait!  You are right though that I should have brought it up faster, but I still think under his specific circumstance, sending him off to read wouldn't have been good for his scorpions, him, or the hobby.  I just wanted to the situation to get right before he had to go searching and reading.  Oh, and everyone else is so quick to send someone off to read and search that I feel like the last thing we need on here is someone else doing it, (and I have a heck of a time with it myself).  I have thrown up my hands on searching here many times.  Maybe that should be a sticky!    A how to find stuff and search on AB.  I would send people to that, AFTER reading it myself!   But I do see where you are going john, I really do.  But you understand where I am coming from right?  He's in foreign country...has 2 1i scorpions at home... and he has no idea....
I don't know if that's reading time.  This makes sense right?  Thanks, ryan



AzJohn said:


> I hope I'm not being rude. I just cann't that the sticky took 31 post before it was brought up. That's what made me want to look. When I saw the title I expected post 2 to be "check the sticky threads". Yokkohmorata was asking a ton of newbie questions, which is great. I think we should point the resources available on this website. The better you understand this web site the more you can get from it. As more experienced hobbiest we should point these things out.
> 
> 
> John


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## Nomadinexile (Jul 24, 2009)

No problem.     anytime, just do me a favor, and do a little reading on here when you get a break from school and life.  Just get the first threads that always come up first when you click scorpions.  The ones that are always there at the top?? Read those.    ryan



yokkohmorata said:


> thnx nomand..


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