# Steatoda?



## Cavedweller (Aug 15, 2014)

As I was leaving my mom's house this evening I found a little spiderweb next to her door. Much to my delight, the occupant appeared to be Steatoda triangulosa, whose markings I am quite fond of. I'm planning to return to moms house to collect the spider tomorrow. I'm assuming I can care for it like a widow? 

I've found very mixed information regarding Steatoda venom. Apparently there are no known bites from triangulosa, but if Steatoda is a fairly hot genus I'll just let this one go outside instead of keeping it.


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## edgeofthefreak (Aug 15, 2014)

No expert, but I think they're not-so-hot. They're an extremely popular spider in and around people's homes. In fact, a friend of mine had been "wild caring" for one in his plants near his front door. When he showed it to me, all proud of having kept it alive through a harsh Canadian winter, I found him 3 more with 5ft of the one he called "his". The other three had eggsacs, multiples for each Steadota.

From what I recall, not including allergic reactions, a bite from Steadotas brings local mild swelling, slight burning, usually subsiding within a few hours at most.


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## Spidergrrl (Aug 15, 2014)

According to Wikipedia, "The triangulate cobweb spider is known to prey on many other types of arthropods, including ants (including fire ants), other spiders, pillbugs, and ticks. It preys on several other spiders believed to be harmful to humans, including the hobo spider and the brown recluse."

Any spider that eats fire ants is tops in my book!

Spidergrrl (Paula)


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## Hanska (Aug 15, 2014)

_Steatoda_s are not "hot". Even the more potent ones are not much worse than a bee sting.
They are however very useful housemates and very easy spiders to keep in captivity. I keep _S.grossa_ and _S.castanea_ an have a thriving population of _S.bipunctata_ all over the house.

And yes you can keep them like widows.


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## Cavedweller (Aug 15, 2014)

edgeofthefreak said:


> From what I recall, not including allergic reactions, a bite from Steadotas brings local mild swelling, slight burning, usually subsiding within a few hours at most.


I'd been reading that Steatoda grossa's bite is pretty nasty, so that had me worried about others in the genus. 



Spidergrrl said:


> Any spider that eats fire ants is tops in my book!


That's exactly what I thought when I looked em up on Wikipedia! I don't think I'll feed mine ants though, since people use ant poison around here. 



Hanska said:


> _Steatoda_s are not "hot". Even the more potent ones are not much worse than a bee sting.
> They are however very useful housemates and very easy spiders to keep in captivity. I keep _S.grossa_ and _S.castanea_ an have a thriving population of _S.bipunctata_ all over the house.
> 
> And yes you can keep them like widows.


Then it looks like I have an enclosure to set up

Edit: Aw nevermind, mom said the spider's gone


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## The Snark (Aug 15, 2014)

Let's just keep things semi accurate. Steatoda has a venom very similar to latrodectus. Both spider venoms produce the effect Latrodectism and both are treated by the same antivenin. However, going by all account reputably reported, the steatoda venom is weaker and it is suspected doesn't deliver as much. I can't figure that one out. Same sized spiders, same general mechanics, same general physiology should equal same venom delivery.

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## Cavedweller (Aug 15, 2014)

My understanding is Latrodectus has particularly large venom glands? There's no reference for that fact on Wikipedia though, so it could be wrong.

I searched around moms house for the Steatoda, couldn't find it. I found several smaller spiders though, kinda tempted to raise one and see if it is an immature Steatoda.


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## edgeofthefreak (Aug 15, 2014)

Cavedweller said:


> I searched around moms house for the Steatoda, couldn't find it. I found several smaller spiders though, kinda tempted to raise one and see if it is an immature Steatoda.


Could they be Parasteatoda? They're not quite half the size, same basic temperament and housing, I'd wager. They were the staple office spider at my last employer - at an office. There was one every 6-12" along the baseboards.



The Snark said:


> Same sized spiders, same general mechanics, same general physiology should equal same venom delivery.


Don't you have 2 cats, raised identically, yet resulted in very different cats in the end? 

^ I kid. Two individuals is hardy a comparative control group vs two separate species. According the laws of evolution, the Latro's were able to up their venom with little challenges, whereas the Steatoda's found themselves quelled in some manner. Must be some crossed wires somewhere....


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## The Snark (Aug 15, 2014)

edgeofthefreak said:


> Don't you have 2 cats, raised identically, yet resulted in very different cats in the end?
> 
> ^ I kid. Two individuals is hardy a comparative control group vs two separate species. According the laws of evolution, the Latro's were able to up their venom with little challenges, whereas the Steatoda's found themselves quelled in some manner. Must be some crossed wires somewhere....


4 cats.
Mom: normal cat cat that does cat like cat things in a cat like manner.
See Cow, surrogate mom: far far gone in a gecko psychosis. Every waking moment is spent hunting geckos. There must be a gecko lurking behind every door. Once tested her one evening. Let her out on the porch to scope geckos, then in the window in case one had come in, then back out the door... 7 times in one hour. 14 times over the course of a 3.5 hour billiard match.
Gnarly: Freddie Mercury fan. Also likes Bob Goldthwaite. Tests gravity regularly. Cats and people are objects to gain greater height.
AJ: see Marvin, the paranoid android.

Considering that the latrodectus venom is 7 extremely exotic sophisticated venoms, some of which target  very specific animals, there are dozens of evolutionary possibilities. My theory is there was one origin species that diversified with the steatoda being an offshoot. There were probably many evolutionary dead ends as well. Just look at the end products we have today. Very hardy surviving in extremely hostile environments, (why does the Hesperus and Hasselti that are native to the desert have a venom that targets crustaceans?), prolific, highly adaptable, and capable of taking a vast assortment of varied food sources. The steatoda came along for the ride from a wildly successful origin?


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## Cavedweller (Aug 16, 2014)

edgeofthefreak said:


> Could they be Parasteatoda? They're not quite half the size, same basic temperament and housing, I'd wager. They were the staple office spider at my last employer - at an office. There was one every 6-12" along the baseboards.


I've got no clue, I'm generally not interested in keeping bugs that are too small to see well. I'm impressed by people who do keep the super tiny stuff. Someday I'll save up and get a fancy camera with a macro lens to explore the bugs tiny unseen world.


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## jecraque (Aug 17, 2014)

edgeofthefreak said:


> Could they be Parasteatoda? They're not quite half the size, same basic temperament and housing, I'd wager. They were the staple office spider at my last employer - at an office. There was one every 6-12" along the baseboards.


What? You must be thinking of the size of _Steatoda grossa_. _Parasteatoda_ gets considerably larger than _Steatoda triangulosa_, which stay pretty small IME.


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## edgeofthefreak (Aug 17, 2014)

jecraque said:


> What? You must be thinking of the size of _Steatoda grossa_. _Parasteatoda_ gets considerably larger than _Steatoda triangulosa_, which stay pretty small IME.


In all honesty, without this forum, I have no one to talk spider with in real life. So there's an awesome chance that the smaller guys from my old office were Steatoda and my friend's much larger is actually Parasteatoda. And there's just as good a chance that I'm seeing the same species over and over, and calling them different.

Who'd care to play a game with me?

This is what I call Parasteatoda tepidariorum:



And a less great shot of what I'd call Steatoda triangulosa:
There were four of these in the area, all were about 25% bigger than the one above...


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## Cavedweller (Aug 17, 2014)

That second one seems similar to what I found. It's always so cool to find spider molts in the "wild".


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## Smokehound714 (Aug 17, 2014)

They do cause similar symptoms to a widow bite, just much less severe.  I consider them medically significant, however, and if you have heart problems, a bite from a female can be problematic.

 if you're healthy it will be no more than an annoyance.


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## Spepper (Aug 17, 2014)

I don't mean to derail the thread, but how bad is parasteatoda venom?  The same as steatoda?


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## Smokehound714 (Aug 19, 2014)

Spepper said:


> I don't mean to derail the thread, but how bad is parasteatoda venom?  The same as steatoda?


Dunno, probably far weaker..  probably stronger, never been bit lol.


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## Cavedweller (Aug 19, 2014)

Smokehound714 said:


> They do cause similar symptoms to a widow bite, just much less severe.  I consider them medically significant, however, and if you have heart problems, a bite from a female can be problematic.
> 
> if you're healthy it will be no more than an annoyance.


Oh thanks for that tip! I'm on medicine that lowers my heartrate, probably shouldn't mess around with that sort of venom then.


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## The Snark (Aug 19, 2014)

Cavedweller said:


> Oh thanks for that tip! I'm on medicine that lowers my heartrate, probably shouldn't mess around with that sort of venom then.


At the least, make sure you are wearing your medic alert tag before you mess.
I mean, there you are on your back in the bathroom, a nice shade of sky blue, making gork noises, and everyone around is babbling about spiders. We bang in some epi and your pulse is a rock at 60 and doesn't budge. Then we have to take your medicine cabinet apart, check the night stand, the kitchen cabinets, and interview all your friends and relations until great aunt Hermione suddenly remembers you have a heart condition.....

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## jecraque (Aug 19, 2014)

edgeofthefreak said:


> In all honesty, without this forum, I have no one to talk spider with in real life. So there's an awesome chance that the smaller guys from my old office were Steatoda and my friend's much larger is actually Parasteatoda. And there's just as good a chance that I'm seeing the same species over and over, and calling them different.


Ahh, gotcha. The first picture is _S. triangulosa_, and the second is also a _Steatoda_, but it's tough for me to tell which one. 

_Parasteatoda_ can have a really wide range of sizes for the adult females. I've seen very small females with egg sacs and ones that are the size of small-to-medium adult _L. mactans_. This series of shots shows the pattern very well (http://bugguide.net/node/view/554990/bgimage), but they can be lighter or darker than this one.


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## edgeofthefreak (Aug 19, 2014)

jecraque said:


> Ahh, gotcha. The first picture is _S. triangulosa_, and the second is also a _Steatoda_, but it's tough for me to tell which one.
> 
> _Parasteatoda_ can have a really wide range of sizes for the adult females. I've seen very small females with egg sacs and ones that are the size of small-to-medium adult _L. mactans_. This series of shots shows the pattern very well (http://bugguide.net/node/view/554990/bgimage), but they can be lighter or darker than this one.


Thank you, jecraque. I see what you see now. The abdomen pattern of the second is near identical to the first, but the second is bigger. Also, the second picture is of terrible quality, so thank you for the attempt at an ID. I'll need to change some picture labels now....


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## Cavedweller (Oct 7, 2014)

I found the Steatoda again, she set up shop right outside my mom's door. I've been watching her for the past month and a half, I found a male snooping about and she made an eggsac soon after. But last week some jerk cleared out all the spider around the apartment, even her sac is gone 

In better news, when I was feeding my spiders today I noticed the escaped crickets were getting tangled up in a web (for some reason the LPS gave me crickets in a paper bag instead of a cup, and my house became Cricketgeddon 2014). At the bottom of my bug shelf sat a little S. triangulosa! I've named her Argyle. 

As for the bite risk, these guys seem quite common in my neighborhood, and I've probably been unknowingly sharing my house with them for quite some time, yet I've never heard of anyone being hurt by one. I don't actually have heart problems on my own, the slightly lowered heartrate is a migraine medication side effect. A medical ID bracelet might still be in order though. 

You guys think I'm better off taking her outside?


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## The Snark (Oct 7, 2014)

Cavedweller said:


> I found the Steatoda again, she set up shop right outside my mom's door. I've been watching her for the past month and a half, I found a male snooping about and she made an eggsac soon after. But last week some jerk cleared out all the spider around the apartment, even her sac is gone
> 
> In better news, when I was feeding my spiders today I noticed the escaped crickets were getting tangled up in a web (for some reason the LPS gave me crickets in a paper bag instead of a cup, and my house became Cricketgeddon 2014). At the bottom of my bug shelf sat a little S. triangulosa! I've named her Argyle.
> 
> ...


...in a paper bag. ?? Like storing solvents in a styrofoam cup. You won't have a recycling problem anyway. 

Any medication that is taken regularly that alters your vital signs should be accompanied by a medic alert. I know I'm a bit extremist there but the job of a paramed doing diagnosis can always use a little help.


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## Cavedweller (Oct 7, 2014)

Yeah I have no idea what was going on. I know they weren't out of plastic cups because they packed my other purchase (a marimo ball) in one. The dog helped take care of the rest of the escapees at least. But he was also dumb enough to eat some of the crickets already in the spiderweb. 

Next time I pass by the pharmacy I'll pick one up.


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## Cavedweller (Mar 6, 2015)

Update! The S. triangulosa had 3 eggsacs. Two of them have already hatched, I saw some tiny little slings, and what I assume is the corpse of their father beneath the web. I wish I could take photos. Argyle's lookin pretty rough and I'm not even sure if she's still alive. I'm glad mooching off my cricket supply gave her the energy to have so many eggs at least. 

I'm about to move (to the complex where I found the first S. triangulosa), which means all these spiders living on the underside of my T shelf are gonna be homeless. I'm kind of tempted to bring some of the slings and set them loose in my new place. How terrible is this idea?


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