# Sunfish in the Aquarium: Keeping Pumpkinseeds, Bluegills & their Relatives



## findi (Dec 22, 2012)

Hi All,
The world’s 30-35 freshwater sunfish species (Family Centrarchidae) range throughout Canada, the USA and Central America.  Although popular among European aquarists, sunfishes have been largely been neglected in American aquaculture. This is a shame, as all are colorful, interesting and active, and most adjust well to aquarium life. From the tiny Black-Banded Sunfish to the 39 inch long Largemouth Bass, there is something for everyone.  I’ve had the good fortune of working with a “sunnies” ranging from the tiny Black-Banded Sunfish to the massive Largemouth Bass, and would enjoy hearing from readers who have also come to know them, or wish to (please post below).
Read article here http://bitly.com/VYLlji 
Thanks, Frank
My Bio, with photos of animals I’ve been lucky enough to work with http://bitly.com/LC8Lbp
Twitter http://bitly.com/JP27Nj
Face Book http://on.fb.me/KckP1m


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## GiantVinegaroon (Dec 22, 2012)

Finally!  Respect!  These fish are awesome!  Only problem is, everyone wants to keep largemouths and smallmouths but don't realize they need TONS and TONS and TONS and TONS of space.


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## findi (Dec 22, 2012)

GiantVinegaroon said:


> Finally!  Respect!  These fish are awesome!  Only problem is, everyone wants to keep largemouths and smallmouths but don't realize they need TONS and TONS and TONS and TONS of space.


Thanks!  I agree...can't understand why they are so ignored.  Yes, bass not suitable for most; I've kept in zoo exhibits, but several hundred gallons needed.  A mature Bluegill or other exhibits many of the same behaviors, can be bred at home and so on, but as you say many people seem not to realize that.

Enjoy,  Frank


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## web eviction (Dec 22, 2012)

Nah they fit fine in my fridge.... And them sunfish taste the best  

Haha but I used to have a large outdoor aquarium with many different sun fish and bass till I found out it was a no no so I released them...

Reactions: Like 1


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## catfishrod69 (Dec 22, 2012)

I have a spare 75 gallon sitting around. Been thinking about building a freshwater setup. Maybe ill catch some of the local green sunfish, as those are my favorites.


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## findi (Dec 22, 2012)

catfishrod69 said:


> I have a spare 75 gallon sitting around. Been thinking about building a freshwater setup. Maybe ill catch some of the local green sunfish, as those are my favorites.


Greens are beautiful, and in that size tank you might even be able to breed them.  I've caught young ones in minnow traps baited with cat food/bread, and adults via seine.  Enjoy, please keep me posted, Frank


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## Formerphobe (Dec 22, 2012)

In most jurisdictions, anything considered a game fish is illegal to keep without special permits.


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## findi (Dec 22, 2012)

Formerphobe said:


> In most jurisdictions, anything considered a game fish is illegal to keep without special permits.


Hello,

Collection is governed by state law, which varies across the country.  Those designated as game fishes usually require a recreational fishing license, while the collection of smaller sunfish species may be unregulated or require a bait fish license. Links to all state fish and wildlife and related agencies can be found here: http://www.fws.gov/offices/statelinks.html.

Best regards,  Frank


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## Najakeeper (Dec 23, 2012)

In Idaho there is a reservoir called Spring Valley. I used to fish for trout there and I would occasionally get some Bluegill. I have never considered them for aquarium but they seemed like strong, healthy fish. They were also somewhat pretty. Come to think of it, I ate some as well when the trout were scarce, they tasted OK as well.  :-\


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## findi (Dec 23, 2012)

Najakeeper said:


> In Idaho there is a reservoir called Spring Valley. I used to fish for trout there and I would occasionally get some Bluegill. I have never considered them for aquarium but they seemed like strong, healthy fish. They were also somewhat pretty. Come to think of it, I ate some as well when the trout were scarce, they tasted OK as well.  :-\


Hi,  Thanks,...they are the ultimate all-purpose fish!  They have been introduced to Idaho, and many other states and countries, and are indeed very strong in their ability to adapt to new habitats,  Best,  Frank


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## bugmankeith (Dec 23, 2012)

I think the rosy red minnows (fathead minnows) are interesting, the normal color are native here and if I had the room I'd have a huge aquarium 50 gallon plus of them, they get much larger than ones you see sold, if allowed to live, the males get thick and develop stripes when breeding.


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## GiantVinegaroon (Dec 23, 2012)

findi said:


> Greens are beautiful, and in that size tank you might even be able to breed them.  I've caught young ones in minnow traps baited with cat food/bread, and adults via seine.  Enjoy, please keep me posted, Frank


They're also VERY aggressive!  I've seen them bully fish larger than themselves, including adult crappie!


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## catfishrod69 (Dec 23, 2012)

Ive also caught them on much larger lures than one would think. Most the time i use just a hook and small worm, and flip it under/between rocks. Love the fight these little guys put up. 





GiantVinegaroon said:


> They're also VERY aggressive!  I've seen them bully fish larger than themselves, including adult crappie!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Najakeeper (Dec 23, 2012)

catfishrod69 said:


> Ive also caught them on much larger lures than one would think. Most the time i use just a hook and small worm, and flip it under/between rocks. Love the fight these little guys put up.


More than one time, a medium Bluegill made me think I have caught a giant trout. Very disappointing really .


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## Galapoheros (Dec 23, 2012)

I've kept a few Texas cichlids but they tend to kill everything else.


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## catfishrod69 (Dec 23, 2012)

I know exactly what you mean. Hooking into a 9-10" bull bluegill is a nice fight. I caught 1 warmouth, and havent ever caught another one. 





Najakeeper said:


> More than one time, a medium Bluegill made me think I have caught a giant trout. Very disappointing really .


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## findi (Dec 23, 2012)

bugmankeith said:


> I think the rosy red minnows (fathead minnows) are interesting, the normal color are native here and if I had the room I'd have a huge aquarium 50 gallon plus of them, they get much larger than ones you see sold, if allowed to live, the males get thick and develop stripes when breeding.


Thanks, yes, many of our native minnows are very interesting, and change radically during the breeding season.  Fatheads that I released into an outdoor pond at the Bx Zoo developed as you say, and have bred every year since.  Best,  Frank

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GiantVinegaroon said:


> They're also VERY aggressive!  I've seen them bully fish larger than themselves, including adult crappie!


I've noticed that the different species vary in regard to characteristics, thanks for bringing this up.  I've had pumpkinseeds  barely larger than a quarter injure 1/2 grown bluegills; they also adjust to tank life right away, rarely hide and take huge food items.  Bluegills tend to get shyer (smarter?) as they mature; hiding more and rushing out for food.  Individual differences also...always interesting.  Best,  Frank

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Galapoheros said:


> I've kept a few Texas cichlids but they tend to kill everything else.


Another very interesting fish....I had a group that survived in an exhibit with large spiny softshelled turtles; tough customers!

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catfishrod69 said:


> I know exactly what you mean. Hooking into a 9-10" bull bluegill is a nice fight. I caught 1 warmouth, and havent ever caught another one.


Warmouths have been reported here in NY from time to time (transplants) but I've not found any; a friend seines them in Louisiana, has other sunfish and plans to try an adult pair in the spring;  I'll post updates.  Best.  Frank


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## mmfh (Dec 23, 2012)

I have two bichars and a blue jack dempsey.....i bought feeder fish and I swear there is now a tiny blue gill in my tank. It seems to be doing well despite living with an aggressive fish 2x larger. Should be neat to see what it really is as it gets larger and shows some color.


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## findi (Dec 23, 2012)

Thanks...feeder minnows are usually seined from outdoor ponds; I've had a number of interesting sunnies, darters and others show up in large orders destined for the Bx Zoo; even, once, a greater siren, which the supplier put aside for me.  

Bichirs are amazing fish, aren't they?   What species do you keep?  Perhaps you'll enjoy this article: http://bitly.com/VeJiLA.

Please keep me posted...most of the feeder ponds are in the southeast, where there are many species, so it will be interesting to hear what you have...sorry if obvious, but due to similar habits, etc., the Dempsey may see it as a threat in time.

Best,  Frank


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## mmfh (Dec 23, 2012)

I love bichars. They are the senegalas. I also have a south american lungfish and all of these species are just awesome! I was looking into sirens before I got the bichars. This little sunfish is the only fish that hasnt been destroyed in this tank but I am going to keep an eye out because im not sure which will become the dominant one. I will try to get a good picture of it. Thank you.


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## findi (Dec 23, 2012)

mmfh said:


> I love bichars. They are the senegalas. I also have a south american lungfish and all of these species are just awesome! I was looking into sirens before I got the bichars. This little sunfish is the only fish that hasnt been destroyed in this tank but I am going to keep an eye out because im not sure which will become the dominant one. I will try to get a good picture of it. Thank you.


Ha!  In my experience, those of us interested in bichirs are also drawn to lungfish, various eels, amphiumas, sirens, catfish.  I got to see Australian lungfish in Japan, not sure if they are in any public aquariums here - amazing; and they were eating plantains, of all things!   Photo would be great, ID of youngsters very difficult; but I can forward to a friend who is pretty good at it,  I have a source for sirens and amphiuma, let me know if you decide.  A happy and healthy season and new year, Frank


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## mmfh (Dec 24, 2012)

Plantains? Interesting. I know my lungfish loves algae wafers. But I learned through trial and error that if they dont get enough protein their little legs start to get bent. My lungfish is currently 13.5 years old and I would love to get another one but they are hard to find in the hobby. I will try to get pictures lol, we will see how good my skills are at taking aquarium pics. Happy holidays!


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## findi (Dec 24, 2012)

mmfh said:


> Plantains? Interesting. I know my lungfish loves algae wafers. But I learned through trial and error that if they dont get enough protein their little legs start to get bent. My lungfish is currently 13.5 years old and I would love to get another one but they are hard to find in the hobby. I will try to get pictures lol, we will see how good my skills are at taking aquarium pics. Happy holidays!


Interesting note on the protein, thanks; those I've kept at home and in zoos have mainly been on animal based diets, so that didn't come up, but a private keeper I know once asked about protein levels; I'll pass along your observation.  Enjoy, best,  Frank


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## Galapoheros (Dec 24, 2012)

I've never heard of bichars, they look really interesting.  I do have a siren, I think it's about 8 years old now, found it when it was about 5-6 inches.  Now I'm thinking of doing the Tx cichlid thing again, maybe later.


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## findi (Dec 24, 2012)

Galapoheros said:


> I've never heard of bichars, they look really interesting.  I do have a siren, I think it's about 8 years old now, found it when it was about 5-6 inches.  Now I'm thinking of doing the Tx cichlid thing again, maybe later.


Several species of bichir appear in the trade these days...almost "straddle the line" between amphibs and fish, in some ways!  the Lesser Siren occurs in Texas...what is it's length now?  Best,  Frank


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## Galapoheros (Dec 24, 2012)

It's topped out at around 14 inches I guess.  I caught my first one in 1974 when I was 11, I was with two of my friends.  We always played in a creek that ran through a golf course when it flooded.  I carried it all the way home while it was wiggling through my hands.  My mother was mad at me because I had been gone so long.  I tried to counteract by saying, "Hey look what I found!" haha, I'll never forget that.


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## catfishrod69 (Dec 24, 2012)

I used to keep a muddpuppy. One of my favorites. Always thought it would be neat to keep a siren, hellbender, or one of those giant japanese salamanders.


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## findi (Dec 24, 2012)

Galapoheros said:


> It's topped out at around 14 inches I guess.  I caught my first one in 1974 when I was 11, I was with two of my friends.  We always played in a creek that ran through a golf course when it flooded.  I carried it all the way home while it was wiggling through my hands.  My mother was mad at me because I had been gone so long.  I tried to counteract by saying, "Hey look what I found!" haha, I'll never forget that.


Ha!  Thanks for the memory; I did exactly the same, at that age in the mid-60's; my Mom couldn't help but go along, as I was so sincere!  A happy and healthy season and new year, Frank

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catfishrod69 said:


> I used to keep a muddpuppy. One of my favorites. Always thought it would be neat to keep a siren, hellbender, or one of those giant japanese salamanders.


All very interesting, amphiumas as well; I was able to see Japanese giants at several aquariums in Japan a few years back; had some connections through the zoo, and a friend there to translate, so I was very lucky; even after reading about them for decades, I was shocked by their size and appearance.  I'm in touch with a guy who supplies amphiumas and 3 species of siren, usually from March or so on, let me know if you ever need a contact,  Best, Frank


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## mmfh (Dec 28, 2012)




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## catfishrod69 (Dec 28, 2012)

Yeah i dont know lot about them. I was fishing a old strip pit pond one day and happened to catch one. I thought it was pretty wierd that it looked like a bluegill but had a larger mouth. I looked into it and discovered warmouth. Thats the only one i ever caught there. Ill try and dig up a pic of it. 





findi said:


> Warmouths have been reported here in NY from time to time (transplants) but I've not found any; a friend seines them in Louisiana, has other sunfish and plans to try an adult pair in the spring;  I'll post updates.  Best.  Frank




---------- Post added 12-28-2012 at 09:30 PM ----------

Thats pretty cool. Would be neat to see them in person. The mudpuppy was the closest i came to a amphiumas that large. First one i caught me and my friend were catfishing, and i caught what i thought was a small bullhead. I pulled it up and with what little lighting we had, we were looking at it. And then we realized, holy crap it had legs lol. It got away from me, but the very next one i caught i kept for a long time. Would be pretty intimidating to have one of those large japanese ones in your presence. 





findi said:


> All very interesting, amphiumas as well; I was able to see Japanese giants at several aquariums in Japan a few years back; had some connections through the zoo, and a friend there to translate, so I was very lucky; even after reading about them for decades, I was shocked by their size and appearance.  I'm in touch with a guy who supplies amphiumas and 3 species of siren, usually from March or so on, let me know if you ever need a contact,  Best, Frank


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## findi (Dec 29, 2012)

catfishrod69 said:


> Yeah i dont know lot about them. I was fishing a old strip pit pond one day and happened to catch one. I thought it was pretty wierd that it looked like a bluegill but had a larger mouth. I looked into it and discovered warmouth. Thats the only one i ever caught there. Ill try and dig up a pic of it.
> 
> ---------- Post added 12-28-2012 at 09:30 PM ----------
> 
> Thats pretty cool. Would be neat to see them in person. The mudpuppy was the closest i came to a amphiumas that large. First one i caught me and my friend were catfishing, and i caught what i thought was a small bullhead. I pulled it up and with what little lighting we had, we were looking at it. And then we realized, holy crap it had legs lol. It got away from me, but the very next one i caught i kept for a long time. Would be pretty intimidating to have one of those large japanese ones in your presence.


Interesting...thanks; I had always heard mudpuppies were sometimes caught on fishing lines (and the first drawing I ever saw of one, in Zim's Golden Guide, shows one on a line) but I've never run across anyone who actually hooked one...what state were you in?

Best,  Frank


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## catfishrod69 (Dec 29, 2012)

Yeah ive only hooked two, which are the only two ive ever seen haha. I live in ohio. When i was catching them it was in a slow moving creek thats about 15-20 feet wide, deepest point being over 6', yet mostly around 1-3'. This creek also floods yearly every fall.


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## Galapoheros (Dec 29, 2012)

Zim's Golden Guide, haha, had the same book, too bad my mother threw it away at some point.  It was the first place I saw a mud puppy too, I remember the pic with the fluffy red gills.  I couldn't wait to find one but that's one I still have never found in the wild.  I didn't live far enough in east tx to come across one in the few areas they have been reported.


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## catfishrod69 (Dec 29, 2012)

They are pretty awesome. Those gills are pretty neat to look at too. Mine would mostly just sit on the bottom with gills out, or sometimes swim around. I mostly fed him nightcrawlers. I would buy them from walmart, then keep them in the fridge. I always rinsed them off before feeding to help keep the water clean. Would be neat to do another setup, but bigger with live plants and a more realistic bottom other than just rocks. 





Galapoheros said:


> Zim's Golden Guide, haha, had the same book, too bad my mother threw it away at some point.  It was the first place I saw a mud puppy too, I remember the pic with the fluffy red gills.  I couldn't wait to find one but that's one I still have never found in the wild.  I didn't live far enough in east tx to come across one in the few areas they have been reported.


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## findi (Dec 30, 2012)

catfishrod69 said:


> Yeah ive only hooked two, which are the only two ive ever seen haha. I live in ohio. When i was catching them it was in a slow moving creek thats about 15-20 feet wide, deepest point being over 6', yet mostly around 1-3'. This creek also floods yearly every fall.


Thanks for that info and sorry for the delay...I was getting an "Attack Site" warning when I tried to respond.  Good to know..the different species and subspecies occupy a wide range of habitats, and it is interesting to hear first hand observations, as they are hard to find (other than by skilled anglers, I see!) here in NY they are limited to deep rivers, while in the SE USA some inhabit sluggish streams; those in slow moving water have noticeably larger gills than those living in more oxygenated waters.  Reported to be active under ice...in case you get out there soon.  Best, Frank

---------- Post added 12-30-2012 at 10:09 PM ----------




Galapoheros said:


> Zim's Golden Guide, haha, had the same book, too bad my mother threw it away at some point.  It was the first place I saw a mud puppy too, I remember the pic with the fluffy red gills.  I couldn't wait to find one but that's one I still have never found in the wild.  I didn't live far enough in east tx to come across one in the few areas they have been reported.


I still have my whole series, plus new ones (drawings not good at all) and my 5 year old nephew loves them.  Amazon usually has some, inexpensive.  Rep/Amphibs was put out with a new cover, but is the same inside.  The Texas blind salamander drawing really grabbed me...I've yet to see one.  Best,  Frank

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catfishrod69 said:


> They are pretty awesome. Those gills are pretty neat to look at too. Mine would mostly just sit on the bottom with gills out, or sometimes swim around. I mostly fed him nightcrawlers. I would buy them from walmart, then keep them in the fridge. I always rinsed them off before feeding to help keep the water clean. Would be neat to do another setup, but bigger with live plants and a more realistic bottom other than just rocks.


They do very well if water quality is watched...some 20+ year old records; breeding not common but worth trying, males guard eggs - ahh!, now you have me thinking......!  Best,  Frank


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## Galapoheros (Dec 30, 2012)

findi said:


> ---------- Post added 12-30-2012 at 10:09 PM ----------
> 
> [/COLOR]
> 
> ...


I remember the drawing of the Tx blind salamander too, really interesting and I thought because of the drawing that they were bigger than they really are.  I made it to a cave they are in while in San Marcos in the early 80's(Ezell's) but it was fenced off even back then of course.  I knew people that went in there anyway with no permission, but I couldn't get myself to do it.


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## catfishrod69 (Dec 30, 2012)

Thats completely understandable, and your very welcome. Now i want to catch a couple and setup my 75 gallon for them lol. I dont know how easy it would be to catch them as ive only caught 2 in over 20 years of fishing. But there are a ton of local catfisherman around here, so im sure i could spread the word that i would like a couple. I cant remember if i caught them on chicken liver, or nightcrawlers. Im betting the nightcrawlers. I think hooking the worm where it would have a long tail sticking off the hook, and then casting and reeling slowly would catch the little puppies attention. 20+ years would be very awesome. I wonder if telling the different sexes apart would be easy like with lizards. I never looked closely enough at mine to see if it had anything that might indicate male or female. 





findi said:


> Thanks for that info and sorry for the delay...I was getting an "Attack Site" warning when I tried to respond.  Good to know..the different species and subspecies occupy a wide range of habitats, and it is interesting to hear first hand observations, as they are hard to find (other than by skilled anglers, I see!) here in NY they are limited to deep rivers, while in the SE USA some inhabit sluggish streams; those in slow moving water have noticeably larger gills than those living in more oxygenated waters.  Reported to be active under ice...in case you get out there soon.  Best, FrankThey do very well if water quality is watched...some 20+ year old records; breeding not common but worth trying, males guard eggs - ahh!, now you have me thinking......!  Best,  Frank


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