# Miracle grow organic potting mix



## syndicate (Mar 8, 2009)

Do you think this will be harmful to spiders?


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## Rick McJimsey (Mar 8, 2009)

What do they mean by "natural fertilizers"?
Cow (feces)?
If it IS all natural, and doesn't have any toxins or anything, then it is probably safe.


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## GoTerps (Mar 8, 2009)

syndicate said:


> Do you think this will be harmful to spiders?


I'd use it.  

Eric


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## gumby (Mar 8, 2009)

If you are worried you can read up on what they use in it but organic does not always mean safe. I was watching this exterminators show they have on TV and many  most of what this company uses is all natural it had some kind of oil in it that was ment to target inverts and take away their moister. So id just read up on whats in the soil before you use it.


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## syndicate (Mar 8, 2009)

thanks for the help guys!If it kills any spiders I'll be sure to post an update lol


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## codykrr (Mar 8, 2009)

hey i have some of this stuff for plats...and i just went and looked and noticed some worm looking things in the dirt....other than that id say its cool but imo its kinda loaded with sticks and stuff....baking should kill the worms but wouldnt the sticks be kinda dangerous


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## Rick McJimsey (Mar 8, 2009)

syndicate said:


> thanks for the help guys!If it kills any spiders I'll be sure to post an update lol


I'd just try it on a few non-valuable T's first, just to be safe.


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## syndicate (Mar 9, 2009)

codykrr said:


> hey i have some of this stuff for plats...and i just went and looked and noticed some worm looking things in the dirt....other than that id say its cool but imo its kinda loaded with sticks and stuff....baking should kill the worms but wouldnt the sticks be kinda dangerous


hmm dunno what the worms would be.I also doubt the sticks would be harmful.Arent there sticks in the jungle?hehe


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## Philth (Mar 9, 2009)

I often use the "miracle grow " brand peat moss, with no problems.  I like it better than cheap ass bales of dry commercial peat.

later, Tom


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## ghost6303 (Mar 9, 2009)

everything came from planet earth at one point or another. miracle grow has still has chemicals in it, organic, natural or otherwise, to promote the growth of plants. i would much rather choose something more inert like strait peat moss or top soil, over miracle grow. it might not be harmful, or any effects may go unseen, but if given the choice i wouldnt use any miracle grow for my Ts.


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## mrbonzai211 (Mar 9, 2009)

I use Organic Topsoil with no ill effects. Plus you get a HUGE bag of it for less than $5. It's perfect for planted vivs too. I've kept my scorps and Ts on it for over a year now.


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## Anastasia (Mar 9, 2009)

Philth said:


> I often use the "miracle grow " brand peat moss, with no problems.  I like it better than cheap ass bales of dry commercial peat.
> 
> later, Tom


Oh Dear!,
nothing like a mushroom cloud of dry peatmoss dust, what can be more fun den dat?!  :}


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## GoTerps (Mar 9, 2009)

Philth said:


> I often use the "miracle grow " brand peat moss, with no problems.  I like it better than cheap ass bales of dry commercial peat.
> 
> later, Tom


Same here.  After using nothing but miracle grow brand peat for all my spiders (and that's been _a lot_ of spiders) for over 5 years, I can pretty much say it's safe.  Assuming the levels of fertilizer are the same (or similar) in the brands potting soil, I would consider that safe too.  Relatively low ("normal") concentrations of fertilizer in the substrate are not going to be harmful.  

Eric


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## Bird Man (Mar 9, 2009)

DO NOT USE MIRACLE GROW for any thing, not even plants. Miracle grow will burn plants, and I've used their "organic" mixes before and I've had BIG white mushrooms pop up over night from the soil.


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## Sathane (Mar 9, 2009)

I wouldn't use this stuff for Ts or any other animals for that matter.


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## GoTerps (Mar 9, 2009)

Bird Man said:


> DO NOT USE MIRACLE GROW for any thing, not even plants. Miracle grow will burn plants


That all depends on the concentration, and the plant in question.  If you're using too high a concentrate, or using it on certain types of plants, of course you'll get burn.  

Ultimately I don't care, and am not going to argue about it here, but I question the claim that properly fertilzed soil (say 10-10-10) is harmful to theraphosids.... mainly due to my experience in doing this very thing.  Do you think they make their burrows in leached out soil in the wild?



> I've had BIG white mushrooms pop up over night from the soil.


This can occur from almost any commercially available potting mix and peat.  And, the typcial white shrooms aren't a big deal anyway IMO.

Ok, over and out.

Basically, if you're worried about using it... don't.  But I don't worry 

Eric


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## nakazanie (Aug 18, 2009)

Bird Man said:


> DO NOT USE MIRACLE GROW for any thing, not even plants. Miracle grow will burn plants...


The statement above is false.  

It seems that if trace amounts of potassium, nitrogen and phosphorous killed tarantulas, we wouldn't have any tarantulas, but who knows.  I just put a few inches of Miracle-Gro potting mix in my new _G. rosea's_ tank topped by a couple inches of Eco Earth. 

I would wager a lot of $$ that fertilized potting soil is safe.  Now, there is a "wetting agent" in some them, too.  These tend to be petroleum-based.  But I guess that keeping t's in plastic containers exposes them to more petroleum than the wetting agent would.  

Chemo-phobia is often not too productive.  

Nak


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## vvx (Aug 18, 2009)

Rick McJimsey said:


> What do they mean by "natural fertilizers"?
> Cow (feces)?
> If it IS all natural, and doesn't have any toxins or anything, then it is probably safe.


I remember once when I lived with my parents they got a ton of "topsoil" delivered, the pile was pretty much as wide as the 2-car driveway. The stench was unbelievable, I'm not sure there was much in it other than cow feces. Though they're the type of people who would intentionally seek out that kind of thing, so I'm not surprised.

I don't think miracle gro would put enough cow feces in it's soil to cause problems. After all, as a big company, they wouldn't want their all-purpose product smelling like that.


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## Spyder 1.0 (Aug 18, 2009)

I microwave all the soil I use in my enclosures to kill everything.


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## nakazanie (Aug 18, 2009)

vvx said:


> I don't think miracle gro would put enough cow feces in it's soil to cause problems. After all, as a big company, they wouldn't want their all-purpose product smelling like that.


I think you are right about this.  I don't remember seeing manure listed as an ingredient.  It's mostly peat.

Nak


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## JC (Aug 18, 2009)

Rick McJimsey said:


> I'd just try it on a few non-valuable T's first, just to be safe.


All T's are valuable!


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## nakazanie (Aug 18, 2009)

arachneman said:


> All T's are valuable!


I was sorta thinking the same thing!   

Nak


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## Mr. Gone (Aug 18, 2009)

There is nothing organic about miracle gro.  Even the "Organic Choice" stuff isn't organic, or at least not what gardeners and horticulturist mean by the term 'organic soil'.  
You see, organic soil really means the soil is alive with a thriving and diverse population of various micro-organisms, and the necessary organic matter for them to subsist off of.  It is there waste production that fertilizes the plant.  In organic soil, the nutrients are locked up from the plant until the micro-organisms release it to them, at a slooooow steady rate.  The only way to get this is to compost the soil, and keep the micro-organisms healthy.  Unfortunately, the term 'Organic' is currently just a marketing label that is slapped on many things to make them more appealing in the face of the growing health food trends.  Many things labeled as 'organic' are just using a buzz word and they're about as organic as anti-freeze.



GoTerps said:


> That all depends on the concentration, and the plant in question.  If you're using too high a concentrate, or using it on certain types of plants, of course you'll get burn.


To some extent you are correct, but with miracle-gro pre-fertilized soil, you usually only have one concentration as an option.  The real difference between Miracle-gro soil, and truly organically fertilized soil; is like the difference between caffeine and meth, or vitamins and steroids.  Water soluble ferts like you find in miracle-gro, force feed your plants; whereas with real organic soil, nutrients are much much much much lower and released at a slow, steady rate.  Also, with organics, if the plants have had enough, they can stop eating, whereas with chem ferts being water soluble, the ferts will keep being absorbed by the plant as it tries to take up water.  



> Ultimately I don't care, and am not going to argue about it here, but I question the claim that properly fertilzed soil (say 10-10-10) is harmful to theraphosids.... mainly due to my experience in doing this very thing.  Do you think they make their burrows in leached out soil in the wild?


Soil that has an N-P-K value of 10-10-10 throughout is certainly not "properly fertilized soil".  Regular Miracle-Gro soil is much lower than that. (if you were using 10-10-10 you'd likely have had a problem by now)  I think you may be confusing pre-fertilized soil N-P-K with fertilizers that you supplement the soil with.  They can have N-P-K values of 10-10-10, 24-8-16, 15-30-15, and many other insanely high numbers that demonstrate how concentrated they are.  Once again there is a huge difference between water soluble chem ferts, and non-water soluble organic ones.  In the wild the various nutes in the soil are fractionally smaller than what you'd buy from miracle-gro, and most are only released to the plant root through the action of life in the soil.  Of course they don't all make their burrows in 'leached out soil' in the wild because most organic ferts CAN'T leach out as they aren't water soluble.  They stay in the soil until they're used up by either the plant or the micro-organisms, usually both.

I certainly wouldn't put water-soluble chem ferts in the soil because everytime your soil gets wet, the water is now tainted with POISON.





> This can occur from almost any commercially available potting mix and peat.  And, the typcial white shrooms aren't a big deal anyway IMO.
> 
> Ok, over and out.
> 
> ...


I completely agree that the mushrooms aren't a problem, and can happen to any soil, as spores are airborne.  If I had to guess I would say the reason you haven't had any problems with it is because pre-fertilized soil has very small amounts of N, P, and K.  Maybe they are small enough not to have an affect on your Ts.  But they are poisons, and while T's don't eat dirt, any water that comes into contact with the soil will contain traces of poisons.  It could be a case of it has to build up over time (years maybe).
I would play it on the safe side and not take the risk since it isn't necessary.  Same as with feeding wild caught prey.


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## Nomadinexile (Aug 18, 2009)

Don't use miracle grow on anything.  Poison   :wall: :wall: :wall:


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## Mr. Gone (Aug 18, 2009)

spyderowner69 said:


> I microwave all the soil I use in my enclosures to kill everything.


You should be aware that this doesn't make your soil unable to be colonized, since it will still be dirt (often moist) sitting around in an unsealed container.  It makes your soil 'open season' for whatever does colonize it(no competition), and makes you have a better chance of infestation.


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## Mr. Gone (Aug 18, 2009)

nakazanie said:


> The statement above is false.
> 
> It seems that if trace amounts of potassium, nitrogen and phosphorous killed tarantulas, we wouldn't have any tarantulas, but who knows.  I just put a few inches of Miracle-Gro potting mix in my new _G. rosea's_ tank topped by a couple inches of Eco Earth.
> 
> ...


I agree the chemical phobia is often unproductive as everything, natural or not, can be expressed as chemicals.  This is the kind of hype that many manufacturers rely on when they label something "organic" when it isn't.

As I said in my other reply:  Miracle-gro is water soluble, most organics aren't.  This has tremendous ramifications.  You are over simplifying when you say that there are traces in the wild.  Most N, P, & K is locked up in other compounds until released by the decomposers present in natural soil, it isn't just sitting there; if it is, that's called pollution.

Thanks for bumping this thread as I seemed to have overlooked it the first time around.


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## AzJohn (Aug 18, 2009)

Mr. Gone said:


> You should be aware that this doesn't make your soil unable to be colonized, since it will still be dirt (often moist) sitting around in an unsealed container.  It makes your soil 'open season' for whatever does colonize it(no competition), and makes you have a better chance of infestation.



I agree. Every time I've nuked or cooked soil I've gotten bad fungus out breaks.


John


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## the nature boy (Aug 18, 2009)

GoTerps said:


> I'd use it.
> 
> Eric


I have.  No problems.


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## tekkendarklord (Aug 18, 2009)

Use bed a beast or eco earth that's what I use


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## nakazanie (Aug 18, 2009)

Mr. Gone said:


> I agree the chemical phobia is often unproductive as everything, natural or not, can be expressed as chemicals.  This is the kind of hype that many manufacturers rely on when they label something "organic" when it isn't.
> 
> As I said in my other reply:  Miracle-gro is water soluble, most organics aren't.  This has tremendous ramifications.  You are over simplifying when you say that there are traces in the wild.  Most N, P, & K is locked up in other compounds until released by the decomposers present in natural soil, it isn't just sitting there; if it is, that's called pollution.
> 
> Thanks for bumping this thread as I seemed to have overlooked it the first time around.


I wonder if anyone could give any evidence whatsoever that the fertilizer contained in Miracle-Gro potting mix is harmful in any way to spiders or the environment.  On the contrary, all I see in this thread is evidence that it is not harmful to spiders.  I also see a lot of unsubstantiated claims.  I agree, the term "organic" is essentially meaningless.  

Nak


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## Warren Bautista (Aug 18, 2009)

OMG! A ZOMBiE THREAD!


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## GoTerps (Aug 18, 2009)

Miracle grow makes my spiders grow up strong and healthy! haha.

Really though, I've had nothing but success using miracle grow peat moss for many years now... if it's a problem, i've yet to see it.  
If you're concerned about it, don't use it.

Eric


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## nakazanie (Aug 18, 2009)

Warren Bautista said:


> OMG! A ZOMBiE THREAD!


A side effect of serach-bullying.  

Nak


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## Mr. Gone (Aug 18, 2009)

GoTerps said:


> Miracle grow makes my spiders grow up strong and healthy! haha.
> 
> Really though, I've had nothing but success using miracle grow peat moss for many years now... if it's a problem, i've yet to see it.
> If you're concerned about it, don't use it.
> ...


what N-P-K are we talking about exactly? Is this what you're using?  According to the link it's N-P-K is 0.05-0.02-0.04.  I said that it had to be a small amount, and that's why you haven't had problems.  You were the one talking about 10-10-10, which is 10 times the amount you have in the peat.  I certainly would be shocked if 10-10-10 didn't cause problems.  
I don't think it's very responsible to be telling people MG won't cause any problems without saying what N-P-K you're talking about(what if someone researching this subject gets the idea that 10-10-10 is okay?), or making poor analogies about "in nature..."(water soluble vs. non-water soluble, BIG difference).   Sweeping generalizations can be dangerous when talking about something as complex as fertilization.


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## curiousme (Aug 18, 2009)

nakazanie said:


> A side effect of serach-bullying.
> 
> Nak


Asking people to use the search function is now bullying???  Most of the time, you can find the answers you are looking for by doing a search and it isn't bullying to ask people to use the resources already here.


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## nakazanie (Aug 18, 2009)

curiousme said:


> Asking people to use the search function is now bullying???


Yes.  It is.

Nak


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## Mr. Gone (Aug 18, 2009)

nakazanie said:


> Yes.  It is.
> 
> Nak


  seriously? :wall: :wall: :wall:


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## nakazanie (Aug 18, 2009)

Mr. Gone said:


> seriously? :wall: :wall: :wall:


No.     :razz:  :wall:  :clap: :evil: ;P 

Nak


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## GoTerps (Aug 19, 2009)

Mr. Gone said:


> I don't think it's very responsible to be telling people MG won't cause any problems without saying what N-P-K you're talking about(what if someone researching this subject gets the idea that 10-10-10 is okay?), or making poor analogies about "in nature..."(water soluble vs. non-water soluble, BIG difference).   Sweeping generalizations can be dangerous when talking about something as complex as fertilization.


Ok.  I don't wan't to be "responsible" for anything.  Use it if you want... if you worried about it, don't use it.  

I've used nothing but MG peat moss for many, many years... for uncountable thousands of spiders.  I'm cool with it... 

Hmm, ya know what... I think some tests are overdue.

Eric


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## Mr. Gone (Aug 19, 2009)

GoTerps said:


> Ok.  I don't wan't to be "responsible" for anything.  Use it if you want... if you worried about it, don't use it.
> 
> I've used nothing but MG peat moss for many, many years... for uncountable thousands of spiders.  I'm cool with it...
> 
> ...



I hate to say this, but are you reading my entire posts?????  Did you look at the link I gave?

I AM NOT SAYING YOUR SUBSTRATE IS GOING TO KILL YOUR SPIDERS!

I never did.  I was only addressing the inaccuracies/broad generalizations of your posts.


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## GoTerps (Aug 20, 2009)

Hi Mr. Gone,



Mr. Gone said:


> I hate to say this, but are you reading my entire posts?????  Did you look at the link I gave?


Yes, I did... just didn't feel like arguing about most of it.  I understand the points you've made and they're certainly valid. Some things I said are speculative at best, but they were intended (which, in hindsight, was likely ill advised) to be that way.

And no, I did not address the difference b/t water soluble and non water soluble fertilizer... and I do understand there is a big difference.

Ok, so the miracle grow concentrate I have on hand in the house is 8-7-6.  If I follow the instructions on the label... mixing 1/2 capful per quart.... then apply that to the substrate... do you feel it will kill a spider?  Maybe it will, I don't know.  Personally, I don't think it will, and that was ultimately the point I was trying to make (but may have done a poor job of making it).  Speculative yes, but not necessarily inaccurate... well not yet!  
Also, I hope it wasn't inferred that I was suggesting applying the concentrate directly to the soil, without diluting it in water first!!??  I'm thinking this may have been the case due to the way I badly worded one particular sentence... but this was certainly NOT what I intended to suggest.

Eric


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