# subspinipes bites



## Pulk (May 13, 2007)

Two questions; this is *really* important to get answers.

a) Is a black widow or a S. subspinipes a more dangerous pet to have?

b) How much does a S. subspinipes bite hurt? (worse than being shot 3 times? Is the damage worse than a black widow bite?)

c) How likely is it to get bitten if I NEVER try to hold it and I'm VERY careful about keeping it happy and safe? (do you know anyone who's been bitten in any way other than trying to handle one?)

PLEASE help me out here. This has to do with my mom... I need lots of replies.
thanks.


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## Gigas (May 13, 2007)

To look at your first question. 
Which is more dangerous, If you're tagged by a Black widow your gonna need medical attention in a big way, but getting bitten to a spider sitting in a web is pretty hard and they only _tend_ to bite when they have sacs. You are probably more likely to get bitten by a subspinipes, very fast and mean. But if you have some common sense and self preservation instincts again, prett y hard to get bitten by. bite hurts quite a bit but its not going to be lethal.


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## beetleman (May 13, 2007)

to me they are both dangerous, ive never been bit by a blackwidow(thank god) use extreme caution. now as for the suspinipies yes i have been bitten, it was a hongkong giant,long story short, hurt really bad,swelling etc. but no after effects once the pain/swelling was gone you couldn't even see where it bit. ofcourse i still have all my pedes and i respect them dearly,even before i got bit,which was by accident ofcourse.and thing is the pede just "tapped"my finger and the pain was really bad, i could just imagine if it hung on to inject more venomall i can say is just becareful with these don't want to scare you,because they are awesome animals to keep:clap:


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## ragnew (May 13, 2007)

I've never been bitten by either of these, but I'd have to say that the widow's venom would much worse (though some people classify the subspinipes as medically significant as well).

I've heard that both these bites can be excruciating! Almost to the point of not being able to describe the pain one feels. I'd hate to be tagged by either of them, and hope it never happens. The two very large S. subspinipes I've got would probably hang on for dear life if either of them sunk the fangs in. Not a pleasant thought... 

But as Beetle said, don't let this scare you away from the pedes (I've never kept widows), as they're a GREAT addition to anyone's collection. Just have to be respected.


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## Mr. Mordax (May 13, 2007)

Based on potency, black widow venom is much stronger than _Scolopendra subspinipes_ -- I glanced at an LD50 chart, and the black widow is almost 100 times as powerful.

As for actual danger?  I've had both as pets.  My black widow seems terrified of anyone that comes to close to her cage.  Her first reaction is to hide in her web until the intruder leaves.

My centipedes are agressive and fast, but if you keep a level head and know what you're doing, the risk of being bitten drops quite a bit.  Just some general precautions are all it takes -- proper tank (high, smooth walls, secure lid), not sticking your fingers where you shouldn't, and not taking your eyes off it.  Also adviseable to have a "tank in a tank" arrangement during maintainence, so if someone escapes they can't get far.

I've never been bitten by any of my pets (unless you count the mantis that missed the cockroach and got my finger . . . but that's another story .)

Edit: Black widow venom may be more powerful drop for drop, but their venom glands are probably significantly smaller than a large centipede's.  You also asked about damage?  I keep hearing that black widow venom has some necrotic effects, but the major impact is from neurotoxins.  Like everyone else said as well, centipede bites don't seem to have lasting effects.

You were also asking about likelihood of getting bit . . . never holding it, being very careful about environment / feeding / etc. are good starts.  I treat my centipedes with a healthy dose of respect and have never been bitten.  The only time I held one was when I was transferring a baby between deli cups and it leapt out and landed on my hand.  (It seemed more inclined to find a hiding spot than to bite the giant pink ground it landed on.)


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## Pulk (May 15, 2007)

Thanks, everyone. All those testimonies would be enough to convince a sane person, but I'm dealing with an extremely tough case. So can someone(s) get back to me about how possible it is to get bitten assuming, as I said earlier, I NEVER try to hold it and I'm VERY careful about keeping it happy and safe?

Sorry about being such a reply whore. :worship:


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## sammyp (May 15, 2007)

It's a bit of an impossible question to answer to be honest. Even the most experienced people can get tagged by a critter. As everyone else has said, treat the animal with respect at all times and avoid working with it if you're feeling shoddy or have had a few drinks etc and you should be fine.

But obviously no-one can say: You won't ever get tagged.


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## Mr. Mordax (May 15, 2007)

SammyP put it pretty much how it is.  You can never eliminate any risk, but you can minimize its likelihood.  Ideal precautions:

Never holding, or attempting to do so
Never performing tank maintainance or "showing off" while under the influence of anything (testosterone counts )
Using suitable tools for tank maintainance (long forceps, or something akin to a chopstick)
Locking tank lid made of a durable metal
Never removing the lid without knowing where in the tank the centipede is
And if you want to be really over the top, a double-tank system (tank in a tank) where both have locking lids

These are more than most hobbyists will do, but if you take this much care, the likelihood of being bitten is greatly reduced.

I'm guessing the "really tough case" is your parents?  You may have to bite the bullet and wait until you move out.


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## Pulk (May 15, 2007)

Yeah, -I'm- not worried about being bitten. I _am_ going to take all those precautions.
Although it's perfectly alright if I have a black widow, my mom's fixated on an anecdote of really intense pain from a subspinipes bite. What I need to communicate is that you don't feel incredible pain unless _you've actually been bitten_. Which she's assuming will happen. :wall:
Luckily though, I'd only have to bite the bullet with respect to subspinipes; my guess is heros (or my third choice, L. parahybana) will be ok.


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## syiware (May 15, 2007)

black-widow spider vs S. subspinipes???

could they be compared to each other?

actually i have not kept this black-widow as a pet.

but i heard some information and watched documentary show about this spider.

they said the venom of black-widow spider is fatal.

but i've never heard any bad one about S. subspinipes.

i have a 7cm juvenile of Scolopendra subspinipes dehaani "cherry red"
and 2 juveniles(12cm and 11cm) of haitian giant centipede(Scolopendra subspinipes subspinipes)

i was bitten by my cherry red(6.5cm) once before. but its pain was not worse than 2.5cm haitian species. but my finger swelled for about 2 days.

and i was bitten by my 9cm haitian, 3 times at that time before. of course my finger swelled for about a week or little over.

well.. i have no idea of an adult subspinipes. maybe it could be more worse than any experiences of mine for being bitten.

but i don't know that it can be compared to the spider of black-widow.


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## Galapoheros (May 15, 2007)

Your mom might be scared of it getting out and biting her more than she is of it biting you.  But most parents are not going to admit that to their kid if it's true.  You have any other sibs?  She'd worry about that too.  Don't know how you would get her over her fear though, unless you could find a pet store around that has a centipede.  A good sneaky salesperson might be able to do it.  Hey you could get her on the phone with the owner of one of the sites that sells centipedes ..catch her by surprise.  There is a good chance you will never get bitten.  It's easy not to get bitten.  I've been bitten a few times but that's because I've poked at them, moved them, and ...other stuff and I'm not real worried about it.  But I haven't been bitten much considering all that.  If an owner gets bitten, it's going to be the owners fault.  That's how I try to look at it.  It almost surely won't be an accident.  If it bites you because "you didn't see it", it's because you didn't look around enough.  If it gets out, it's because you didn't close the cage right (been there) or didn't use the right material for the top.  So it depends on the person's personality and how responsible they are.  We're not perfect though and forget, that's the problem.


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## bistrobob85 (May 15, 2007)

If you ask me, the widow will have a harder time getting on you to bite you than a subspinipes would, whatever the damage will be...

 phil.


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## Drachenjager (May 15, 2007)

yeah im sure your less apt to be bitten by the widow but people do get bitten fairly often by them... mostly because they stuck thier hand in with ti will working outside where they couldnt see it probably. but if i was going to get bit by one or the other and had a choice it take the pede lol


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## Pulk (May 17, 2007)

Now that subspinipes are eliminated, my mom _still_ "needs to talk" about s. heros. So tell me how they're lots less dangerous than subspinipes.


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## Mr. Mordax (May 17, 2007)

If you can talk to cacoseraph, ask him.  He gets bitten by stuff to see how bad the venom is (but he won't touch his subpsinipes ).


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## Nich (May 17, 2007)

I personally would choose a blazk widow over  a S. sub...
  I got bit few times (in one incident) when I was younger by a large adult. They kept me at the hospital overnight.....that was it. I had some bad stomach pains and muscle aches. People have different reactions to venoms...but one thing is for sure about Scolopendra ssp., all acounts include severe pain.


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## cacoseraph (May 17, 2007)

IHeartMantids said:


> If you can talk to cacoseraph, ask him.  He gets bitten by stuff to see how bad the venom is (but he won't touch his subpsinipes ).


he has been 

i would say that heros are calmer than subspinipes... but ultimately it doesn't matter what the "average" example of the species does... it matters what the one that you want to get is going to do

heros aren't fun to get bit by from all accounts i have read. gala got tagged in the arm and it swelled and pained him for like two days.  that is about as bad as "african giant yellowleg" (Eth. trigo?) and Tanzanian Tiger blackhead male (S. morsitans).

subspinipes is worse from what i have read.


honestly though, if you give a centipede a chance to burrow or a really good hide then there is like 0.0001% of it biting you and only slightly larger that it will get out.

basically you have to give it everything it needs or it will try to move on to find what it needs. most of my centipedes just chill. some underground, some above. 

oh, and individuals seem to go through phases of being very secretive and very brazen. dunno why.

edit:
one day i'm going to have to get bitten by a subspinipes. just so i have the full spectrum covered.


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## JColt (May 18, 2007)

Hope this hasent been posted. 

http://www.emedicine.com/EMERG/topic89.htm


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## edesign (May 19, 2007)

do some searching on Google regarding S. heros medical bite reports...there is some information available that is fairly easy to find. While not fun to be bitten by I'm sure (as Caco said), a S. heros bite is probably not going to be as painful as a S. subspinipes...you can also google for bite reports from said species.

Any Scolopendra species is going to have a painful bite with a few exceptions (S. polymorpha...which, if this is your first pede I would recommend starting with this species). The larger the pede the more venom that is injected which means worse reactions. A medical bite report I read from a doctor in Arizona (or maybe it was New Mexic) was about a middle-aged man who was bitten in the thigh area by a large S. heros (think it was 6-7" long). The most effective treatment for the pain was a very warm (not hot) washcloth placed over the bite...more effective than painkillers iirc. S. subspinipes bites are said to be unaffected by opiate painkillers...and the pain has been said to be anywhere from preferring to have their arm cut off to just plain excruciating.

But back to the S. polymorpha. If your mother is concerned about safety and such I do suggest trying this species first. They do not get massively large, they are native to the United States so they're not very expensive, they are pretty, and they are quite aggressive when it comes to catching prey. I don't know what full grown size is, I have a wild caught specimen that I've had for over a year and is around 3" long or so. And as I alluded, the pain/complications from their bites is relatively minor...I've never been bitten but I'm sure Caco could tell you how they feel (off the top of my head, probably no worse than a bee sting). And since they're smaller you'll get a feel for how centipedes act and move (they can be surprisingly fast when they want to be) and will ready you for something larger. Personally, I'd rather be chasing an escaped S. polymorpha around my place than a subspinipes...especially if I was living with other people who did not share my interest in these types of "pets" (I don't consider them pets...more as "specimens").

Or, if you really want a centipede that has a good bit of mass to it try an Ethmostigmus trigonopodus (sometimes mistakenly sold here in the US as S. morsitans...I know mine was), mine was about 7" long from tip to tip (antennae to terminal legs) and was about as big around as a penny. They are a good bit calmer than most Scolopendras and depending on the locale it was collected from, the venom is also much less potent. Caco has had experience with the same species from two different locales, apparently the one he mentioned above has a more potent venom than the other (green legs with blue stripes).

Centipedes can not climb very smooth surfaces such as plastic and glass so if put in the correct enclosure they can not escape unaided. But be aware that a 7" pede can stand on it's "tip toes" and reach about 6" up...so make sure the tank is at least a couple inches taller than the pede is long. Also, as others said keeping them in a tank within a tank can be a good preventative measure against accidental escapes, but to be effective the outer tank will need to be a good bit larger than the inner tank otherwise the pede may just use it's long length to stretch across the gap at the top of the inner tank to the outer and escape anyway.


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## Ameiva (May 19, 2007)

I was bitten by _Scolopendra subspinipes subspinipes_ several times now, and also by _S.alternans_.
S.s.subspinipes has a painful, but not unbearable venom, he is more powerful at least than _Isometrus maculatus_.






The S.s.subspinipes in my hand





The bite 






_S.alternans_ bite


The venom of _subspinipes _has little effect on me, but on my brother, it provokes inflations and small necrosis.











S.s.subspinipes bite my brother's foot

I do not know the venom of others subspecies of _subspinipes_, can be dehaani is more powerful.


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## Drachenjager (May 19, 2007)

between a a. subspinipes and s. heros bites id take the heros any time...its like comparing hitting your thumb with a tiny trim hammer or a sledge hammer


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## edesign (May 20, 2007)

Ameiva...that is a tiny S. subspinipes, compare the bite of one that size to one that is approaching 9" long and almost 3cm in diameter and I think you'll find a SLIGHT difference


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## ragnew (May 20, 2007)

Ah ha, that Scolopendra subspinipes subspinipes looks very, very similar to the Indonesian Black Tipped I purchased from Botar. Been wondering about that for a while.

I think I'd rather take a whack from the subspinipes subspinipes over a chomp from either of my 9" psychos! But still, I'm aiming to remain bite free where any of the pedes are concerned!


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## Drachenjager (May 20, 2007)

cacoseraph said:


> he has been
> 
> i would say that heros are calmer than subspinipes... but ultimately it doesn't matter what the "average" example of the species does... it matters what the one that you want to get is going to do
> 
> ...


yeah and got tagged when we were buggin together a few weeks ago too on the finger, he said it didnt hurt much and only swelled up a tiny bit. i am sure its bite varies depending on if it chews on you for a while or you let it go and just get a punch mark lol


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## beetleman (May 20, 2007)

well, the hongkong giant i got tagged by was about 6 1/2" it just "tapped" me,and man the pain/swelling was just terrible,i could just imagine if this thing bit and hung on,forget it!


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## arachi american (May 21, 2007)

theyre not really that hard to handle as long as you use tongs in-cage and stay nice and calm once its out.













caaaareful =)


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## ragnew (May 21, 2007)

arachi american said:


> theyre not really that hard to handle as long as you use tongs in-cage and stay nice and calm once its out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Man, mine would never, ever let me get that close. I guarantee the minute they touched my hand after being in those tongs...

I'd be a hurtin' unit! 

Pretty neat pics though!


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## Python (May 24, 2007)

I've been bitten by an 8 inch subspinipes and I felt no pain from it although it stayed swollen for about 6 months off and on. I have kept mactans for about 6 years in large numbers (with a wild caught female that has been bred, large numbers are the norm) and never been bit but the first pede I ever got bit me within 5 minutes of being delivered. Like everyone says, with care and caution, either one is about as safe as the other. Just keep an eye out and understand that they both can fit through very tiny holes!


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